Podcast appearances and mentions of matt lemay

In this episode on The Product Experience, we welcome back Matt LeMay—author, consultant, and champion of no-nonsense product thinking. We dig deep into the ideas behind his new book Impact First Product Teams and explore how teams can focus on what really matters: delivering business impact.Featured Links: Follow Matt on LinkedIn and his website | Buy Matt's new book 'Impact-first Product Teams' | Sudden Compass | Randeep Sidhu's episode on The Product Experience: 'Lessons from building the UK's test and trace app'Chapters00:00 – The Myth of Rational Business01:03 – Matt's Accidental Journey into Product02:20 – What Are “Impact-First” Teams, Really?04:50 – Why OKRs Are Often Just Theatre07:12 – Best Practices ≠ Business Value10:00 – Who's on the Product Team, and Why It Matters12:30 – Dealing With Cross-Team Goal Conflicts15:00 – Culture Change via Strategic Goal Alignment17:00 – Proactive Conversations About Impact20:00 – Commercial Awareness for Product Teams24:00 – Platform Teams & Measuring Amplified Impact27:00 – What Do Good Impact-First Teams Look Like?31:00 – Customer-Centricity vs. Business Impact34:00 – Discovery, Metrics & Mission-Critical Goals36:00 – Culture, Strategy & Individual Leverage41:00 – BAU vs. Innovation: Set Clear Expectations44:00 – The Ego Trap in Product Work46:00 – Matt's Final Zinger on Capital and FeelingsOur HostsLily Smith enjoys working as a consultant product manager with early-stage and growing startups and as a mentor to other product managers. She's currently Chief Product Officer at BBC Maestro, and has spent 13 years in the tech industry working with startups in the SaaS and mobile space. She's worked on a diverse range of products – leading the product teams through discovery, prototyping, testing and delivery. Lily also founded ProductTank Bristol and runs ProductCamp in Bristol and Bath. Randy Silver is a Leadership & Product Coach and Consultant. He gets teams unstuck, helping you to supercharge your results. Randy's held interim CPO and Leadership roles at scale-ups and SMEs, advised start-ups, and been Head of Product at HSBC and Sainsbury's. He participated in Silicon Valley Product Group's Coaching the Coaches forum, and speaks frequently at conferences and events. You can join one of communities he runs for CPOs (CPO Circles), Product Managers (Product In the {A}ether) and Product Coaches. He's the author of What Do We Do Now? A Product Manager's Guide to Strategy in the Time of COVID-19. A recovering music journalist and editor, Randy also launched Amazon's music stores in the US & UK.

Send us a textIn the finale of our three-part series, Matt LeMay takes on the tech world's shiniest object: artificial intelligence. From summarizing meeting notes to influencing million-dollar decisions, AI is here to stay. But Matt warns against using AI as a goal unto itself. Product teams must ground their experimentation in business logic—or risk becoming distractions.Detailed Analysis: Episode 39 brings a timely and pragmatic take on AI in product management. Matt acknowledges AI's strengths—particularly in summarizing information and idea generation—but urges caution. When AI tools lack source context, they can mislead as easily as they can inform. The key is discernment: understanding when AI adds value and when it distracts.The team unpacks how AI is impacting product roadmaps, budgeting, and even job security. Matt shares war stories of teams told to "do something with AI," only to later realize the result consumed $200K to close a $50K deal. Oops.But this isn't an anti-AI rant. Matt offers frameworks to leverage AI wisely while keeping business impact front and center. If you're going to play with shiny tools, make sure they're solving real problems.Now you can interact with us directly by leaving a voice message at https://www.speakpipe.com/CustomerSuccessPlaybookCheck out https://funnelstory.ai/ for more details about Funnelstory. You can also check out our full video review of the product on YouTube at https://youtu.be/4jChYZBVz2Y.Please Like, Comment, Share and Subscribe. You can also find the CS Playbook Podcast:YouTube - @CustomerSuccessPlaybookPodcastTwitter - @CS_PlaybookYou can find Kevin at:Metzgerbusiness.com - Kevin's person web siteKevin Metzger on Linked In.You can find Roman at:Roman Trebon on Linked In.

Send us a textIn part two, the gloves come off. Kevin and Roman dive into the chaos of defining impact across diverse teams with Matt LeMay. From freemium metrics to ROI confusion, Matt exposes why so many organizations fail to align on what "impact" actually means. This episode is your backstage pass to better collaboration and smarter goal setting.Detailed Analysis: Episode 38 tackles the messy business of misaligned metrics. Matt shares how product teams often assume they understand impact—only to find marketing, customer success, and sales have completely different definitions. The result? Disjointed strategies and missed opportunities.Matt calls for radical alignment: teams should set goals no more than one step removed from company-level objectives. This not only surfaces tension between teams (think lifetime value vs. new users) but creates a dialogue for harmonizing objectives. Collaboration isn't optional; it's the secret weapon.The episode also zooms out, showing that Matt's framework applies far beyond product. Marketing, customer success, even sales can use the same approach to rethink how they measure success. This isn't just a methodology. It's a mindset shift. If your goals live in the middle zone of vagueness, it's time to bridge the gap between strategy and execution.Now you can interact with us directly by leaving a voice message at https://www.speakpipe.com/CustomerSuccessPlaybookCheck out https://funnelstory.ai/ for more details about Funnelstory. You can also check out our full video review of the product on YouTube at https://youtu.be/4jChYZBVz2Y.Please Like, Comment, Share and Subscribe. You can also find the CS Playbook Podcast:YouTube - @CustomerSuccessPlaybookPodcastTwitter - @CS_PlaybookYou can find Kevin at:Metzgerbusiness.com - Kevin's person web siteKevin Metzger on Linked In.You can find Roman at:Roman Trebon on Linked In.

Send us a textWe kick off this powerhouse three-part series with Matt LeMay, author of Impact First Product Teams. In this episode, we challenge the default mindset of "shipping features" and dig into how product teams can align closely with business-level outcomes. Matt lays down his number one tip for product leaders: set goals that are both high impact and high specificity. Prepare to rethink everything you thought you knew about prioritizing work.Detailed Analysis: Episode 37 sets the foundation for what it truly means to run a high-impact product team. Matt LeMay debunks the myth that asking leadership what they expect is the best starting point. Instead, he argues that teams must own the understanding of their value, crafting goals that tie directly to revenue, growth, or customer success metrics. The formula? Set ambitious, specific, and time-bound objectives. But here comes the twist: doing this invites the Eye of Sauron (yes, that Lord of the Rings reference was glorious). High visibility comes with accountability.Matt doesn't just stop at theory. He discusses how real teams can move from doing busy work to delivering business value by asking the right internal questions and being brave enough to commit to uncomfortable levels of accountability. Product leaders, take note: if your team is just shipping features, you may already be obsolete.Now you can interact with us directly by leaving a voice message at https://www.speakpipe.com/CustomerSuccessPlaybookCheck out https://funnelstory.ai/ for more details about Funnelstory. You can also check out our full video review of the product on YouTube at https://youtu.be/4jChYZBVz2Y.Please Like, Comment, Share and Subscribe. You can also find the CS Playbook Podcast:YouTube - @CustomerSuccessPlaybookPodcastTwitter - @CS_PlaybookYou can find Kevin at:Metzgerbusiness.com - Kevin's person web siteKevin Metzger on Linked In.You can find Roman at:Roman Trebon on Linked In.

In this episode of Product Momentum, we share our conversation with Matt LeMay, who had just delivered a keynote at INDUSTRY Global, entitled The Business is Your Business. About Matt LeMay Matt LeMay is an internationally recognized product leader, consultant, and author. His titles include Agile for Everybody, Product Management in Practice, and the soon-to-be-released … The post 152 / Matt LeMay: The Consequences of Low-Impact Work on Sound Product Management appeared first on ITX Corp..

This week on Product Coffee, Kevin Gentry talks with Matt LeMay, a product leader, consultant, and author known for his work with Google, Mailchimp, Spotify, and Bitly. Matt shares his journey from musician and music journalist to product management, highlighting how his communication and team-building skills from his music career translated into tech. They discuss the importance of goal clarity, embracing facilitative roles in product management, and balancing creative work with business needs. Matt also previews his upcoming book on 'Impact First Product Teams,' offering advice on setting high impact, high specificity goals to drive team success. The episode ends with Matt reflecting on the challenges and joys of writing his new book and his broader views on maintaining balance between professional and personal creative projects. Episode Resources: Kevin Gentry on Linkedin Matt LeMay's Website Timeline: 00:23 Meet Matt LeMay: Product Leader & Author 02:00 Matt's Journey into Product Management 03:25 From Musician to Product Manager 09:20 Career Growth & Key Lessons 12:25 Embracing Facilitative Work in Product Management 21:07 Challenges & Insights in Agile Transformation 28:00 Resource Allocation & Team Collaboration 28:09 High Specificity in Goal Setting 28:51 Consulting Insights on High Impact Goals 30:42 Challenges of Innovation Teams 32:39 The Importance of Specific Goals 34:11 Project-Based vs. Team-Based Approaches 41:58 Writing Process & Creative Work 48:09 Balancing Work & Creativity 51:04 Homework & Plugs Check out our website @⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠productcoffeepodcast.com⁠ ☕️

Welcome back to the Once You're In You're In podcast! ———————————————————— COACHING: For coaching enquiries, please feel free to DM us on instagram or fill out the application form below! FK Physiques - https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdi4b1glGKVb0EKeGa_dcYFC9DRSgxkDVFmBzpNy2evDondnQ/viewform?usp=sf_link  Team RFit - https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeaZGqZJEGPhNKzbsRtc2aKFsmqnF1SiC_MXdH4Z2lVdYwnag/viewform  ———————————————————— INSTAGRAM:  https://www.instagram.com/finnkelly_coach/  https://www.instagram.com/reecefit/  https://www.instagram.com/fkphysiques/  https://www.instagram.com/teamrfit/ https://www.instagram.com/onceyoureinyourein_podcast/  ———————————————————— YOUTUBE:  https://www.youtube.com/@finnkelly316  https://www.youtube.com/@reecefit3909   ———————————————————— SUPPLEMENTS: https://contehsports.com FINN10 / REECE10

Have you been trying to drive more impact in your product org, but it's just not working? Maybe you don't have clear goals from your product organisation, you don't see how your work relates, or it's just too hard to get clear targets. Does that sound familiar? We've all been there, but thankfully, we're joined by impact-guru Matt LeMay on today's episode. Matt unpacks exactly what product organisations need to change to drive more impact, and why this is so important, & why it's not about having dead certainty on your goals. He also throws in so many gems: - What are soft skills in product, and why are they important - How can you detach yourself from your work and stay sane - Approaching conversations about the uncomfortable thing If you're looking at how you can really step into the world of impact, then this episode is for you. Where can you find more info about Matt and his latest book? https://mattlemay.com/about-matt Linkedin.com/in/mattlemay If you want to see more from us: ⁠⁠Follow the show on LinkedIn⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Follow Michael⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Evie Do subscribe & leave a review if you love this episode, Evie & Michael

In this episode Matt Lemay is thrilled to welcome podcasting storyteller Jason McKay, the Wandering Metis, along with storytelling Metis fiddlers JJ Lavalee and Jordan Daniels.And we're thrilled to be coming to you again from the Tragically Hip's Bathouse studios.It's a beautiful 200 hundred year old stone inn along the shores of lake Ontario, near Kingston.There Matt and his team have been working on a documentary and album with some of the best Metis musicians around. For more on that, definitely check out our previous episode, One Nation, Many Fiddlers.On the week of this interview, I was joined at Bathouse by Jason MacKay, whose podcast for the Metis Nation Saskatchewan is called “The Wandering Metis.”It is all about gathering the best Metis stories from his home province.Storytelling, along with fiddles, is a cornerstone of Metis culture, and with the Wandering Metis in the house the stories just flowed, which is why we had to get Jason, Jordan and JJ around a table, on mics, talking and fiddling.We hope you enjoy listening to this as much as we had recording it.For more on the work of the MNC, visit metisnation.ca

Leaders vs. Managers, tactical interventions, why ego is the killer for real leadership. In this episode Matt and I discussed a lot of different Product Leadership topics, shared heaps of practical advice and personal stories. Enjoy the show!You can find Matt on LinkedIn .Here you can find his website.Don't miss out on his book Product Management in Practice.

“Just before we got on the landing craft our officer said, ‘I want to tell you boys you're all good. You know your job. Get out there and get them. But one thing I want to tell you, most of you guys won't be coming back.' So you know what that meant.I said, ‘Sir, I'm coming home. I'm going to go do my job.' ‘That's what I like to hear,' he said.When we hit the beach, the water was red.Don't let anyone ever tell you they weren't scared. You were scared the whole time and you're on the beach and your buddy is yelling at you to help but you can't stop.One thing you have to do when you make it on the beach, you've got to go for yourself, which is hard to do, to get those pillboxes, cement that thick, three machine guns in there. In B Company, there were only 27 of us left out of the whole company (of 125). So that was hard.”   - Métis Veteran Francis Godon (1924–2019) remembering his role as a corporal in the Royal Winnipeg Rifles during the D-Day landing at Juno Beach, Normandy on June 6, 1944. Interview by the Veteran Voices of Canada.  Welcome to our special Remembrance Day episode, One Nation, Many Veterans, as we honour the tens of thousands of Métis men and women who have served in Canada's military, world wars, conflicts, peacekeeping and humanitarian missions, going all the way back to 1884-5 and Canada's first ever involvement in a foreign conflict. In this episode, host Matt LeMay digs into the proud history of Métis military service with two distinguished Métis veterans:   Brian Black served in the Canadian navy including during the first Gulf War. He is a past President of the Métis Nation of Ontario Veterans Council and the current Director of Self-Government for the MNO. His Métis ties are in the Treaty 3 Rainy River-Rainy Lake Area.  Brian Prairie is a veteran of the Lake Superior Regiment and the current President of MNO Veterans Council. A resident of Thunder Bay, his Métis ancestry goes back to the Red River. In this episode we also hear from Métis National Council President Cassidy Caron on efforts by the MNC to get Métis veterans of World War 2, Korea and beyond the recognition and compensation from the Canadian government that they deserve.Host Matt LeMay is a citizen of the Métis Nation of Ontario, with roots in the Red River, Drummond Island and Penetanguishene. He is a documentary film-maker and co-founder of Indigenous Geographic. Our theme music is "Harry Daniels" by Métis fiddler John Arcand.  "One Nation, Many Stories" is produced by the Métis National Council and David McGuffin of Explore Podcast Productions.  For more on the work of the Métis National Council, visit metisnation.ca 

In a week where the Manitoba government announced the historic decision that it would formally recognise Métis resistance leader Louis Riel as the province's honorary first Premier, it seems fitting that our latest episode is called "One Nation, Many Leaders."In this episode we're focusing on one specific leader, Métis National Council President Cassidy Caron, two years after she became the first female elected female elected leader of the MNC. In this thoughtful, lively conversation, host Matt Lemay and Caron talk about her meteoric rise to the MNC presidency in her late twenties and the path that took her there. They also get into her childhood in Rossland, BC, the family who grounded her in Métis traditions, her family's deep roots in historic Métis communities of Batoche and St. Louis, Saskatchewan, and those who mentored and continue to advice her in her role as leader, including the acclaimed Métis author Maria Campbell and a group of Kookums who she continues to talk with on a regular basis. They also get into highlights of her time in office, including the Papal visit at the Vatican with Residential School survivors, the ongoing issue of governments recognizing those Métis Residential School survivors, Métis self-government agreements with the federal government and more.Host Matt LeMay is a citizen of the Métis Nation of Ontario, with roots in the Red River, Drummond Island and Penetanguishene. He is a documentary film-maker and co-founder of Indigenous Geographic. Our theme music is "Harry Daniels" by Métis fiddler John Arcand."One Nation, Many Stories" is produced by the Métis National Council, and David McGuffin of Explore Podcast Productions.For more on the work of the Métis National Council, visit metisnation.ca

Trigger Warning: This episode is about the abuses that occurred in residential schools. It may not be suitable for all listeners. If you need emotional support, there is a 24-hour Residential School Crisis line which you can reach at 1-866-925-4419."We lost our names. We were never called by name. We had numbers. My number was 44." - Robert Merasty, Île-à-la-Crosse Residential School Survivor.Tansi and welcome to this first episode of One Nation, Many Stories, the podcast brought to you by the Metis National Council. Every three weeks, we'll be bringing you new episodes including stories and interviews with the amazing people who make up our proud Nation.We begin this series in the northern Saskatchewan historic Métis community of Île-à-la-Crosse. The town and its Métis roots go back hundreds of years, so it seems a good place to begin. Sadly, as we mark Truth and Reconciliation Day, Île-à-la-Crosse is also home to an ongoing injustice; the failure of governments to recognize and compensate the Survivors of the church-run residential school that operated there for generations. The children there experienced systemic mental, physical and sexual abuse, but that history is being ignored by both the federal and Saskatchewan governments as they argue of jurisdictional responsibility. As Métis National Council President, Cassidy Caron, says in the introduction to this episode, "It is imperative that both the federal government and the provincial government of Saskatchewan, alongside the church, come together to finally recognize these Survivors and ensure they can continue their healing paths.""One Nation, Many Stories" host Matt LeMay, welcomes two Île-à-la-Crosse residents, Robert Merasty and Jordyn Burnouf, to discuss the history of the town, the residential school, and the ongoing impact of abuse, and neglect by governments and the church.Robert Merasty is an Île-à-la-Crosse Residential School survivor. He is also a fixture in his community as an announcer of CILX Radio, where he can be heard each weekday, bringing news and interviews in English, Cree and Michif to his listeners in northern Saskatchewan. During his long career, he was also a broadcaster with CBC and APTN.Jordyn Burnouf is proudly Cree and Metis from Île-à-la-Crosse. She serves as a senior advisor to the vice-president and justice minister of the Metis Nation Saskatchewan, taking a special interest in the case of the survivors of the Île-à-la-Crosse Residential School.Host Matt LeMay is a citizen of the Métis Nation of Ontario, with roots in the Red River, Drummond Island and Penetanguishene. He is a documentary film-maker and co-founder of Indigenous Geographic. The voices at the start of this episode are from the following Île-à-la-Crosse Métis Residential School survivors:Lawrence Morin, Pat Desjarlais, Dorothy Dubrule, Antoinette Lafleur, Louis Gardiner, Emile Janvier.Their stories can be found in the "Île-à-la-Crosse Métis Residential School Documentary" produced by Matt Lemay and Crystal Martin-Lapenskie of Indigenous Geographic.Our theme music is "Harry Daniels" by Métis fiddler John Arcand."One Nation, Many Stories" is produced by the Métis National Council, and David McGuffin of Explore Podcast Productions.

The myth of product management is that human complexity can be reduced to a manageable framework, one that lets us show up for work feeling confident and comfortable and ready to take on the world. Not so fast, says Matt LeMay, internationally recognized product leader, consultant, and author of Agile for Everybody and Product Management … The post 113 / Embracing Human Complexity in Product Management, with Matt LeMay appeared first on ITX Corp..

Matt LeMay is the author of Product Management in Practice (now in its second edition) and product leader and consultant who has worked with companies like Google, Spotify, Mailchimp, and Audible. In this episode of the Product Science Podcast, we cover how constraints can be helpful in product, the effects of getting promoted without being ready, and why great product managers don't need to say yes or no. Read the show notes to learn more: URL: www.h2rproductscience.com/post/the-matt-lemay-hypothesis-great-product-managers-never-have-to-say-yes-or-no

Today my conversation partner is Matt LeMay! Matt is an internationally recognized product leader, author, and consultant. He is the author of Agile for Everybody (O'Reilly Media, 2018) and Product Management in Practice (Second Edition O'Reilly Media, 2022), and has helped build and scale product management practices at companies ranging from early-stage startups to Fortune 500 enterprises.  Matt and I met at UX Lisbon last year where he gave a talk that included him describing his extremely actionable recipe for team agility: the One Page / One Hour Pledge, a powerful commitment to minimize busywork and maximize collaboration that has been adopted by individuals and teams at Amazon, Walmart, CNN, and more.  I was excited to bring Matt into a conversation about this pledge, because I know how easy it is to get caught in a rabbit-hole of perfectionism before sharing my work with others. Teams can work more fluidly if we reduce the cycle time between solo work and team work. Matt is an advocate for the power of focus, subtraction and feedback loops over perfection - I mean, would you rather ride a bike you can only aim once or one that you get to steer continuously? I never dreamed I'd get to have a podcast conversation that includes references to Alan Watts and the power of Ego Death to accelerate your team's success and ultimately, one's own success…but glad that we are!  Matt and unpack how TIMEBOXING (ie, Tight-and-almost-thoughtless constraints ) helps shift the relationship between thought and action in teams and organizations…and can help move the conversation forward. Head over to theconversationfactory.com/listen for full episode transcripts, links, show notes  and more key quotes and ideas. You can also head over there and become a monthly supporter of the show for as little as $8 a month. You'll get complimentary access to exclusive workshops and resources that I only share with this circle of facilitators and leaders. Links Matt's website Product Management in Practice https://www.onepageonehour.com/ Matt's talk at UX Brighton on “You Don't Get anyone to do Anything” “When we attempt to exercise power or control over someone else, we cannot avoid giving that person the very same power or control over us” Alan Watts Alan Watts “The wisdom of Insecurity

On this episode, Matt LeMay joins to discuss Product Leadership. Matt LeMay is an internationally recognized product leader, author, and consultant who has worked with companies like Spotify, Audible, Mailchimp, and Google. He is the author of Agile for Everybody (O'Reilly Media, 2018) and Product Management in Practice (Second Edition O'Reilly Media, 2022), and has helped build and scale product management practices at companies ranging from early-stage startups to Fortune 500 enterprises. Learn more at MattLeMay.com and ProductVoices.com.

This podcast has some strong language, so if you've got any little ones around, you might want to pop in some headphones.   “I think there is just this deep, massive insecurity around hiring product managers. Companies are fearful of hiring the wrong person. So they defer to the perceived wisdom and expertise of others. In doing so, they abdicate their most important responsibility, which is to figure out what they need for that team to achieve its particular goals at that moment, at that company.” - Matt LeMay   In this episode of Pragmatic Live, Rebecca Kalogeris, VP of marketing for Pragmatic Institute, interviews Matt LeMay, partner and principal product management consultant at Sudden Compass.   Matt LeMay is an accomplished product leader who has helped various companies enhance their product management practices. He co-founded Sudden Compass, a consultancy that has helped several organizations such as Spotify, Google, Clorox, and Procter & Gamble with customer centricity. He is also the author of Agile for Everybody and Product Management in Practice.   In this episode, Rebecca and Matt discuss: Hiring the right product manager for your team starts with understanding exactly what your company needs, not simply “what makes a good product manager.” The key quality Matt looks for during an interview with a prospective product manager Why you should switch from clarifying the role of product management to clarifying the goal of product management How to incorporate different frameworks into the hiring process Are You Looking For Your First (or Next) Product Job? Pragmatic Certifications Can Get You Hired.   Pragmatic's product practice provides a full ecosystem of impactful, results-driven training and resources for product professionals and teams. Use our course selector tool to help you find the perfect learning path for your career goals. Learn More

Matt LeMay is a product management consultant, coach and author of "Product Management in Practice", a book that aims to demystify product management and give you a practical, tactical guide for every day of your career. The book's recently had a 2nd edition released, and we spoke about some of the themes from the book. A message from this episode's sponsor - Skiplevel This episode is sponsored by Skiplevel. Do you struggle with communicating with dev teams and understanding technical terminology and concepts? On episode 98, I hosted Irene Yu, founder of Skiplevel, an on-demand training program that helps professionals and teams become more technical in just 5 weeks... All without learning to code. Learn the knowledge and skills you need to better communicate with devs and become more confident in your day-to-day role with the Skiplevel program. You can use referral code OKIP to support this podcast! Episode highlights:   1. You should read all the PM books, but question them Books have to take a position, and they're always going to be simplified versions of reality. It's positive to disagree with what you find in these books, but you can learn something useful from just about any book. 2. It doesn't matter how Agile you are, or what framework you use Getting into holy wars about frameworks is not constructive. Not everything works in all contexts, and if it doesn't work you're not a "bad" product manager. Concentrate on delivering value the best way you can. 3. Product managers have a CORE set of skills There's no one standard job description for a product management role, but Matt likes to boil it down to CORE: Communication, Organisation, Research and Execution. Depending on the company, there might be additional important skills. 4. PMs need to make peace with not always being the decision-makers PMs need to concentrate on enabling good decisions. PMs are not "CEOs of Product" & may not be able to influence senior stakeholders all the time. There may be reasons for decisions outside of their control 5. PMs need to stop being defensive If you find yourself in a defensive posture, you're already behind. Often, the harder you try, the worse you can make things. Do what you can to affect change, but try to avoid fighting with your leadership & concentrate on helping your users. Buy "Product Management in Practice" "Updated for the era of remote and hybrid work, this book provides actionable answers to product management's most persistent and confounding questions, starting with: What exactly am I supposed to do all day?" Check it out on Amazon. Contact Matt You can connect with Matt on LinkedIn or visit his website.

Charles Humble and Matt LeMay explore what the job of product manager entails, common A/B testing pitfalls, conducting user research, dealing with senior stakeholders, and managing prioritisation.

What does it take for one to become a Product Manager? We find out in this episode. In this edition of Coding Over Cocktails, we are joined by Matt LeMay, author of Agile For Everybody and Product Management in Practice and co-founder of Sudden Compass, and talks to us about the responsibilities and qualities that entail being a product manager and how much technical knowledge is needed for the role. He also tells us why he is tired of Agile and how the power we delegate to made-up concepts is “weird.”

If a product manager is doing their job really well, they will be invisible and the results will speak for themselves. In this rebroadcasted podcast episode, product coach, consultant, and author speaks with Lily and Randy about the product management craft and how the best product managers do their job really well.Listener of The Product Experience? We need your help! Fill out this short survey to help us improve the overall experience of our community-led podcast. Featured Links: Follow Matt on LinkedIn and Twitter | Matt's Website | One Page / One Hour | Sudden Compass | Matt's book 'Product Management in Practise'

Nesse episódio a conversa é sobre a experiência do cliente e metodologias ágeis, especialidades do meu convidado, Filipe Küster. Ele é diretor de projetos no Küster Machado Advogados, um escritório tradicional de Curitiba e fundador da Voa Legal, uma consultoria de design de negócios para o direito. Um profissional inquieto, com muita experiência no direito e um olhar ao mesmo tempo técnico e inovador. Falamos sobre como melhorar a experiência do cliente e das pessoas que trabalham dentro dos escritórios de advocacia e departamentos jurídicos. E falamos também sobre como as metodologias ágeis podem melhorar essas experiências. Filipe traz exemplos práticos que vive no escritório e na consultoria com dicas de como é possível transformar a experiência do seu cliente e das pessoas que trabalham na sua organização. Sim, isso também é legal design. Livros indicados no episódio: Agile para todos (Matt Lemay), Isto é design de serviços na prática (Stickdorn, Hormess, Lawrence, Shneider) e Design de negócios (Roger Martin). Você também pode assistir o vídeo desse bate papo no canal do YouTube Direito & Design https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK2umCPNwyLRd0oiM5wIWtQ/about

w/ guest Matt LeMay

In observance of the winter holidays, this episode doesn't feature a guest interview. Instead, I reflect on five themes that emerged in the diverse conversations we hosted on the podcast during 2021. I wish you and yours happy holidays! Cover photo by Waldemar Brandt on Unsplash. If you're enjoying the show, please rate or review it in Apple's Podcasts directory: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-informed-life/id1450117117?itsct=podcast_box&itscg=30200 Show notes The Informed Life episode 53: Jason Ulaszek on Healing Social Rifts The Informed Life episode 54: Kourosh Dini on DEVONthink The Informed Life episode 55: Hà Phan on Product Leadership The Informed Life episode 56: Margot Bloomstein on Trust The Informed Life episode 57: Ben Mosior on Wardley Maps The Informed Life episode 58: Jesse James Garrett on Leadership and IA The Informed Life episode 59: Matt LeMay on One Page / One Hour The Informed Life episode 60: Kat Vellos on Friendship The Informed Life episode 61: Jeff Sussna on Customer Value Charting The Informed Life episode 63: Sophia Prater on Object Oriented UX The Informed Life episode 64: Sarah Barrett on Architectural Scale The Informed Life episode 66: Jim Kalbach on Jobs to Be Done The Informed Life episode 68: Mags Hanley on Career Architecture The Informed Life episode 69: Karl Fast on Interactionism, part 1 The Informed Life episode 70: Karl Fast on Interactionism, part 2 The Informed Life episode 71: Sunni Brown on Deep Self Design The Informed Life episode 73: Patrick Tanguay on Newsletter Curation The Informed Life episode 74: Annie Murphy Paul on The Extended Mind The Informed Life episode 75: Hans Krueger on the Cycle of Emotions The Informed Life episode 76: Dan Brown on IA Lenses Some show notes may include Amazon affiliate links. I get a small commission for purchases made through these links. Read the transcript Jorge: Welcome to the informed life. In each episode of this show, we find out how people organize information to get things done. I am your host horsehair angle. Today, I don't have a guest on the show. Instead, I'm going to try something a little different. Rather than a conversation with a single guest, I'm going to do a review of some of the things that I heard during the course of the year. So, you'll be hearing from several of the folks who graciously agreed to be on the show. And the reason why I'm doing this is because I listen to a lot of interview-based podcasts. And while I find myself getting totally engrossed in each individual conversation, I often lose track of what I've heard before in prior conversations, and I have a hard time making sense of patterns that may be emerging. So, I thought that during this quiet time of year I might take some time out to do just that, to see if there are any themes or patterns that have stood out during the interviews i've done in the past 12 months. Of course, the guests on the show, didn't speak with each other. I don't want to imply that they're somehow in conversation or responding to each other's points. In fact, the only point that any of these conversations have in common was that I was a part of all of them. I'm also aware that when you take snippets of interviews out of context, It may change their meaning, especially when put next to other snippets from other conversations. And that's definitely not my intent. I'm not going to present these in the order in which they were recorded. In fact, I'm going to talk about these in no particular order. So, in this episode, I'm just going to edit these together and see if I can highlight some of these themes that seemed to have come up in more than one conversation. If you want to check out the full conversations, which I encourage you to do, I will include links to each episode in the show notes. Hopefully, this will prove useful to you if you choose to revisit the conversations we've had over the last year. So, now onto the themes. We recorded 25 conversations during 2021. And in revisiting them now, I've grouped them into five high-level themes. There are other ideas that have come up and there are different arrangements you could make, but these are five themes that stood out to me. The first theme, I'm calling, aligning our values with our actions. The second is about using intentional structures for self-development. The third is about practicing information architecture at scale. The fourth is highlighting tools and methods for visualizing systemic intent. And the fifth is about thinking beyond the brain. I'll unpack what these are about one by one and hopefully draw connections between them to try to bring some coherence to the conversations that we've been having throughout the year. Because I do think that there are things that connect them. Aligning our values with our actions Jorge: So now, let's dive into the first of these themes, which has to do with aligning our values with our actions. And this is one that came in this year, particularly strongly and with intent on my part because I was appalled by the January 6th insurrection in Washington, DC. This horrible event brought to life the degree to which there are deep social rifts in the U.S. And I I've been thinking about what designers can do so what can I do through my work to help make these things better. So I wanted to talk with folks who have been explicitly thinking about this stuff. And this led me to reach out to Jason Ulaszek, who has used design to help heal Rwandan society in the wake of the Rwandan genocide, which I think is obviously a much more extreme situation than the one that we're facing here in the U.S. Now, Jason is not originally from Rwanda, he's from the U.S., so I asked him if there's anything that we could learn from his experience that might help us in our society to start healing the rifts that divide us. And I was very intrigued by his answer; he talked about re-engaging with cultural values. And this is what he had to say: Jason Ulaszek: What was part of the Rwandans cultural value system well before the genocide against the Tutsi, and is now swung fully back -- and they're working hard to ensure that that's the case -- is a really strong sense of cultural values. What they've really tapped into -- and I think this is where it gets into design a bit -- is that they've tapped into ways to embody these cultural values inside of the experiences people have within education. Jorge: So there's an explicit attempt there to create structures — in that case, within the educational system — that help highlight the common social values that bind a people together. And in part the way that I understood it, at least the part of the idea there is to try to rebuild a sense of trust among parties. And we had another episode this year where we talked explicitly about building trust. And this was in episode 56, where I had a conversation with Margot Bloomstein about her book on the subject, which came out this year, called Trustworthy. And, as Margot put it in our conversation, a big part of building trust has to do with authenticity: with having our actions be grounded in a clear set of values and having them be aligned with those values. This is how Margot put it: Margot Bloomstein: You used the term "authenticity." And I think that that's a term that we throw around a lot; that's a term marketers love to throw around. Who wouldn't want to be authentic? And I always wonder, authentic to what? Do you know who you are? Know thy self first, and then you can determine, well, how do we align our actions with our values? Because that's how we measure authenticity: it's the distance between our actions and our words, all of that external stuff and our values. And I think for many organizations, they can jump into kind of the national conversation, into the international conversation, around many of those social issues and say, "Here's what we're doing. Here's why we support this. Here's what we're doing internally. And here's what we're doing externally to make this better for everyone." To put a stake in the ground. And they can do it building on that long-term, authentic investment in their values. Jorge: I love this idea of being more intentional about aligning our values and our actions as we seek to be more authentic. And of course Margot was talking here about doing that at the level of organizations, but it's also possible to do it at an individual level. And in my conversation with author Kat Vellos, we dug into that specifically in the context of her work. In nurturing friendships. And I asked Kat about how we might be more authentic in looking to create the structures that allow us to nurture friendships as we get older. And she highlighted the importance of being present. This is what she had to say about it. Kat Vellos: The more you immerse yourself in what is actually happening in that time that you're connecting with the other person, the more likely you are to feel the benefit. You know, when you're spending time sharing stories with a friend say, focus on their story, focus on them. Get curious. Ask followup questions and have that be the focus of your attention, rather than halfway listening and halfway being in your own head. Like, "do I feel less lonely right now? Do I feel less awkward right now?" Get out of that mental evaluation mode and get real immersed and real curious and interested in the other person. And that's actually when somebody feels heard. That's actually when somebody feels more connected is when you're really present and holding space with each other. Intentional structures for self-development Jorge: This idea of being more present was also an important part of our second theme, which has to do with creating intentional structures for self-development. I like to think of this almost as kind of an information architecture of the self. So, while it might seem on the surface like some of these conversations run a bit further a field from the subject of the show, I see them as being quite aligned in that we are creating conceptual structures that help us affect some kind of change. And in this second theme, the change has to do with internal transformation. We delved into this in a few conversations during the year. The first I will highlight is episode 71, where I interviewed Sunni Brown about her work in Deep Self Design, which is a practice rooted in Zen Buddhism and design thinking. And during this conversation, Sunni chastised me for allowing myself to let my devices keep me from being more present during a camping trip with my family. And I loved how Sunni talked about being more present. This is what she had to say: Sunni Brown: Camping, when it's like safe and beautiful... the point of it is to actually get you into a different state. To get your regulatory system in a different state so that you can enjoy your life and be present with your family and look at the sky and realize that you're part of... you are the sky, there's no difference between you and the sky, you just project that there is. And like, you know what I mean? So, you have to understand that that space is essential for your humanity and and make it a priority. And you can tell people, I mean, there's ways to approach it that are gentle on other people. So you can let people know, "I'm going to go dark for 72 hours. You should know that," Or, "I'm going to go dark, and then I'm going to have one hour where I look at stuff," you know? You have to design it for your life and what's actually available for you. Sometimes people have sick parents at home or sick kids or whatever, but you have to start to understand the benefit of it. Because I think most people think it's just like something they would lose. Like, they wouldn't get... something taken away from them. And I'm like, "no! It's something you're giving yourself that is priceless." And you get amazing ideas. Like your productivity goes up. So, I call it going slow to go fast. Actually I read this interesting Nietzsche quote, which I don't read Nietzsche a lot or anything, but like he said like great ideas are found when you're walking. And Steve Jobs was... Also, I'mnot obsessed with Steve Jobs, but he did a lot of walking meetings. So, If you are a productivity junkie, going slow helps you go fast. And it actually frees up a lot of stuck tension in the body and stuck ideas that you can't get through and it gives you solutions and ahas and insights. So there's huge rewards in it anyway, if you need it to be aligned with productivity. But it's like, dude, we're gonna die one day, Jorge. Like all of us! And the last thing I want to do is be like, "I spent my whole life on my iPhone!" That is like the worst thing that could happen. Jorge: So, we need to be more aware about what is going on with our systems, with our bodies — and we need to be present. And this was not the only conversation that I had that delved on similar subjects. In episode 75, I talked with my friend, Hans Krueger, who has also been influenced by Buddhism, on what he calls the cycle of emotions, which is a conceptual structure — a way of thinking about emotions and how emotions affect our behavior. Here's Hans: Hans Krueger: What surprisingly few people realize is that there is like a real system behind this thing, this whole emotional complex. How they work, how they interact with each other, what leads to what, what you can do to actually cultivate your own emotional state. A state that allows you to perceive as clearly as possible what is real, versus what you imagine is real. Jorge: There's an emerging theme here in the power of visualizing, might be one way to think about it, but at the very least naming these conceptual distinctions, becoming more aware of what is happening internally. And again, this might come across to some folks as not being relevant to information architecture at all. But I do think of these as conceptual structures where there are distinctions that we label and we establish relationships between those distinctions. And the structure helps us understand what we're doing so that we can act more skillfully, more mindfully. And at least one guest during the year talked about using such conceptual models, not just to help us personally, but to help us in our careers. In episode 68, Mags Hanley shared with us her work on career architecture, which is also the subject of her book, which was published after we talked. And Mags made the connection between the methods, processes and tools that we use as information architects and how we develop our careers. Mags Hanley: Career architecture is about how we can use the methods that we think about and we use as information architects or as UX professionals and apply that in a very systematic way into how we think about our careers. Practicing information architecture at scale Jorge: I like this idea of using information, architecture and user experience methods, practices, and tools for our own personal development. But we can also use them to develop our teams and to work at a different level of impact. I think of this as information architecture at scale, which is the next theme that emerged in the conversations that we had on the podcast over the year. Two that immediately come to mind, but I'm not going to highlight as much here, are the conversation with Jim Kalbach on jobs to be done, which, in addition to Jim's book, helped me clarify my own understanding of what jobs to be done are. And this is an important subject, one that designers and product managers need to be aware of. So, if you have heard the phrase, but are not entirely clear on what it means, I encourage you to check out my conversation with Jim. Another one is the conversation that I had recently with Dan Brown on information architecture lenses. And as that explained in that episode, the lenses are a set of cards, and now podcasts and YouTube videos, that aim to serve as a tool to help designers deal with architectural conundrums. So again, if you are into information architecture, and you haven't done so already. I encourage you to check out the conversation with Dan Brown. That said, there are a few episodes that I do want to call out here and bring to your attention. One is the conversation I had on episode 63 with Sophia Prater about her object oriented user experience framework. I see this as a way of formalizing conceptual models so they can be shared and discussed with other team members. This is how sophia described it during our conversation: Sophia Prater: OOUX is all about saying, "okay. If we know that our users think in objects and just human beings think in objects - not not just our developers - human beings think in objects, and to be able to gain understanding, you need to understand what the objects are in that system. And to understand what the objects are we need a certain level of consistency and recognizability to our objects." So as the designers of these environments, if we don't get really super clear on what our objects are, there's no way. There's just absolutely no way in hell that we're going to be able to translate that to our end users. We're just not! If we can't get it straight on our team and we can't get it straight among ourselves, then 1) that's going to create a lot of communication problems internally which is a problem that I hear all the time. We've got everybody on the team coming together. And some people, depending on what department you're in or what your role is, you've got the same object, the same thing being called two or three different things and different objects being called the same thing. And you're trying to design complex software. So just getting on the same page internally is going to be absolutely intrinsic to making sure that it's clear to your end users. Jorge: Another conversation that had to do with considering design at a different level of abstraction was in episode 64, where Sarah Barrett shared with us considerations about the architectural scale of the systems we design. I was particularly drawn to the way Sarah described how we should approach the intended effects of our work: Sarah Barrett: Occasionally, I get comments or people worrying that our information architecture isn't innovative enough that we're not doing anything surprising or introducing anything brand new. And I feel very strongly that your architecture is not the place to surprise people. Like, there are actual architects out there building very innovative homes that no one wants to live in. And I have no interest in doing that. I really want us to use the oldest, most standard, most expected way of doing things. I think the example of the grocery store is another great way here. There's a lot of benefit to not innovating in the layout of a grocery store. There probably is some benefit in innovating a little bit around the edges or in some details, but you gain a lot from making it legible and making it expected for people. And so, that one is really about... okay, given these things that we expect to have: we expect to have global navigation, we expect to have metadata on content, we expect to have titles and breadcrumbs... how do we unpack what each of those things is doing for us and make sure that between the suite of those elements we are using? Because you never use just one, you use lots of them together. Between all of those elements, we are presenting a coherent, complete view of the wayfinding people need. Jorge: It's one thing to create a coherent and complete system that allows people to find and understand things, and it's another to create the conditions that allow that system to evolve over time gracefully as conditions change but to retain that cohesiveness. And doing this requires that we understand that the things that we are designing are in fact systems and they are systems that will require stewardship over time. This implies that we need leadership. And that was the subject of episode 58, where I had a conversation with Jesse James Garrett about leadership and information architecture. This is part of what jesse said during that show. Jesse James Garrett: The way that I talk to folks about design leadership, who have come from a design background -that is to say they've been doing design work - is that leadership is just another design problem. And you're working with different materials and you're working toward different outcomes and you're having to follow different principles, but the task is the same task. It is a creative problem-solving task. It is a systems-thinking task, as a leader. So looking at the ways that you're already doing that systems-thinking, the ways in which you already doing that architecture for yourself in the work that you're already doing, and those will be your strengths. And those will be the pillars that you can lean on that are going to support your work as a leader going forward. They will evolve and they will not look like what they looked like when you were doing content inventories or task flows or whatever other artifacts you might've been working on as a designer. But the skill set that you're building is the same skill set. Jorge: The relationship between design and leadership, and how designers can use our tools, methods, practices, et cetera, to take on leadership roles, was also the subject of episode 55, which featured a conversation with hop-on about her own trajectory from design to product leadership. Hà Phan: I think the difficulty was between the role I have now, or the delta between the role I have now versus being a UX designer is that, you know, it's really a leadership role to basically provide the path to clarity. So when you have a vision, even as a seasoned UX designer, you're going to present forth this vision. And usually there's a thousand questions and a thousand steps before you get there, right? And usually you don't get there entirely. You know, you don't get to the vision entirely the way you had envisioned it. You're going to take turns, right? And I think in this role, what I get to do is that I get to enable the team to find that path to clarity, and to provide the milestones or the mission for each of the goals along the way. Jorge: This idea that leaders provide clarity and vision is very important. And it's one of the reasons why designers can make good leaders, because part of what designers do is clarify and help visualize abstract ideas. I keep saying that design is about making possibilities tangible: we take these vague notions, requirements, constraints, ill defined contexts, and we make things. And these things that we make can be validated somehow. We can put them in context and have them be used by the people that we intend to serve, to see whether things are working or not. And we create feedback loops where we make them incrementally better, better suited to meeting the needs of the people they serve. Visualizing systemic intent Jorge: And this idea of leadership as a role that clarifies and articulates a vision, brings us to the fourth theme that I noticed in going back over this year's episodes, which has to do with highlighting tools and methods for visualizing systemic intent. And by that, I mean different ways of mapping systems and making systems more tangible. Again, this idea of making the abstract more relatable. And we had several conversations along those lines. The first I'm going to highlight here is episode 59, in which Matt LeMay may shared with us One Page / One Hour, an approach he's developed to help teams articulate what they're making by working fast and iterating. So, rather than creating some kind of polished deck, the idea here is to articulate a vision really quickly so that you can spend less time upfront creating polished artifacts and spend more time iterating with stakeholders and other team members. Here's Matt describing how he came up with One Page / One Hour. Matt LeMay: I wrote up this pledge to my business partners saying I'm willing to forego the sense of individual accomplishment that comes from presenting finished and polished deliverables to my colleagues. I promise that I will spend no more than one page and one hour working on any deliverable - any document - before I bring it to the team. In other words, if I show up with five beautifully formatted pages or a one-page that took me 10 hours to create, I want you to hold me accountable to that. I want you to say, "man, why did you do this? We made a deal. We made a commitment to each other! We all know that if we actually want to deliver value, if we want to do valuable work, we need to collaborate earlier on. You can't go off onto your own and create this big thing, and then just want us to tell you how great it is!" Jorge: One Page / One Hour is about trying to articulate very quickly what we have in mind and sharing it so that we can start iterating on it. A few of the other conversations that we had during the year around visualizing systems and visualizing intent were about artifacts that are a little more elaborate. An example of this is Customer Value Charting, which Jeff Sussna shared with us in episode 61. Customer Value Charting, as Jeff explained, it is a tool to balance strategy and agility. And the purpose of creating that balance is to drive customer benefits, which are related to but not the same as business benefits. Jeff illustrated this by means of an example using a common service. Jeff Sussna: The benefit of the dry cleaner is that I can get my tuxedo cleaned in time to go to the formal event. It's not fundamentally about a cash register or a counter or even cleaning chemicals. And I mention that because a lot of the conversation I see around outcomes over outputs tends to actually talk about business outcomes. You know, revenue growth and customer retention, and time on site and business outcomes are great. I don't have any problem with them, but people tend to skip this step. We have a hypothesis that this feature will cause this change in customer behavior, which will lead to this business outcome or business impact. But it leaves open the question of, well, why is the customer changing their behavior? What is the benefit to them? Jorge: These are complex questions to take on for designers or for anyone, frankly. And it's helpful to hear about how folks are going about it. Customer Value Charting is one way of doing it. Another way of visualizing systems and visualizing things like customer needs in a systemic way was shared with us by Ben Mosiure in our conversation, which focused on Wardley maps. Ben Mosior: Wardley mapping is a visual way of representing systems: its users, its needs, its capabilities, its relationships between all those three things. And then it's also positioning those things in a way that helps their qualities become more apparent. So there's this thing that Simon Research called "Evolution." It's basically how do things evolve and get better or die under the pressures of supply demand competition, and what you get is like things start out new, uncertain, high risk, high failure, but with a high potential for future value. But then as they evolve, they get better. You know, someone's always like looking at these weird ideas and trying to make them better because capitalism basically suggest there's money to be made. So someone out there is going to try to make it better. And over time, if the idea is worth investing in, it will continue to get better, more known, more boring, more predictable, and the value of it will be more concrete. And eventually, if it evolves to a certain extent, it becomes an invisible part of our everyday lives. And so, Simon says, look, you want to represent the systems that we're a part of both in terms of their parts and relationships, but also in terms of how evolved each of those parts are. Because what that does is it sets you up to understand the implications of those qualities. New stuff is going to be high failure, old stuff that everybody understands, that's just part of everyday reality like power in the wall. It is going to be less surprising, it's going to be less failure. And so that means that depending on the context, depending on the part of the system we're looking at, we need to have a different way of approaching it. And I think that's the entire point. By making visual artifacts -- by talking about our systems visually -- we can come together, look at a specific part of it, appreciate its qualities, and then together determine what our collective intent is about that part of the system. Jorge: That's a great description of this idea that we can take these complex abstract ideas and make them tangible, make them manifest in the world, and as a result, make it possible for us to have conversations about them, to somehow change the state of things, to make things better. Thinking beyond the brain Jorge: And that brings us to the fifth and final theme that emerged over the year and that I want to emphasize here, which has to do with using tools and our environment to extend our cognitive system. So, in some way, when we are putting up stickies or diagrams or anything up on the wall, we are making it possible for us to share a cognitive space of sorts. And this is true, whether we're doing it with a note-taking app or stickies on a whiteboard. In taking stuff out of our heads and putting them out into the world, we can somehow extend our minds. And that's why I'm calling this fifth theme "thinking beyond the brain." Conversations about this theme came in two different flavors. On the one hand, we had folks who shared with us their thinking processes and tools. And on the other hand, we had a few conversations that were about thinking in this way itself and I'll say a little bit more about both of those. So, first with the thinking processes and tools. In episode 75, Patrick Tanguay shared with us, how he uses a combination of tools to write one of my favorite newsletters, Sentiers. And it's a setup that mirrors somewhat closely my own setup. Another great conversation about a particular tool was in episode 54, where Kourosh Dini told us about how he's using DEVONthink for building a personal knowledge management system. I was very excited to talk with Kourosh because he wrote a book that helped me use DEVONthink better. If you're unfamiliar with this tool and you are someone who needs to manage a lot of information, let's say if you're teaching or writing, it behooves you to give episode 54 a listen. As I mentioned, I also hosted a few discussions which were not about tools in particular, but a little more meta about how the mind itself works beyond the brain. I'll be frank with you, these were some of my favorite conversations during the year. One was with Annie Murphy Paul about her book, The Extended Mind. Annie's book is the clearest explanation I've read on the science behind the field of embodied cognition. It was one of my favorite reads of the year because it does a really good job at dispelling erroneous notions about how the brain works. And I think that this is a very important subject for designers to understand. Here's Annie. Annie Murphy Paul: I always like to say we're more like animals than we are like machines. You know, the brain is a biological organ. I mean, I know this is obvious, but we really can get very entranced in a way by this metaphor of "brain as computer." The brain is a biological organ that evolved to carry out tasks that are often very different from the tasks that we expect it to execute today. And so, our misunderstanding of what the brain is leads us, as you were saying, Jorge, to create these structures in society. In education and in the workplace, in our everyday lives, that really don't suit the reality of what the brain is. I mean, I'm thinking about how, for example, we expect ourselves to be productive. Whether that's in the workplace, or what we expect our students to do in school. You know, we often expect ourselves to sit still, don't move around, don't change the space where you're in. Don't talk to other people. Just sit there and kind of work until it's done. And that's how we expect ourselves to get serious thinking done. And that makes sense, if the brain is a computer, you know? You feed it information and it processes the information, then it spits out the answer in this very linear fashion. But that's not at all how the brain works. Because the brain is so exquisitely sensitive to context, and that context can be the way our bodies are feeling and how they're moving, that context can be literally where we are situated and what we see and what we experience around us, and that context can be the social context: whether we're with other people, whether we're talking to them, how those conversations are unfolding -- all those things have an incredibly powerful impact on how we think. And so, when we expect the brain to function like a computer, whether that's in the office or in the classroom, we're really underselling its actual powers -- its actual genius -- and we're cutting ourselves off from the wellsprings of our own intelligence, which is the fact that we are embodied creatures embedded in an environment and set in this network of relationships. So, it really... we're really kind of leaving a lot of potential intelligence on the table when we limit our idea of what the brain is in that way. Jorge: While this may seem like we are venturing a little far from the ostensible subject of the show, which is about how people organize information to get things done, there's two reasons why I think it's important for us to delve into this subject. One reason is that, if we are to properly organize information so that we can find things, understand things and so on, we have to understand how our minds work, because ultimately what we're doing is we are designing for minds. And the second reason is that in so doing — in organizing information, in creating these information environments — we are creating contexts of the sort that Annie was talking about there. Even if they are not physical contexts, they are contexts that influence how we understand things. The second conversation I had this year on this subject and which I want to highlight here is the conversation I had with my friend, Karl Fast over episodes 69 and 70. And as you might know, if you've been listening to the show for a while, that's the first time I've ever done a double header. In other words, that I've split a conversation between two episodes. And it's just because we had so much to talk about. And I don't think I can do that conversation justice by extracting just any one clip. But again, I do believe that this is an important subject for you to know about, so I encourage you to check out the whole thing. Closing Jorge: So there you have it, that's a very high level overview of some of the conversations that have stood out to me in the podcast over the last year. Now, obviously there were many more — I told you that we recorded 25 episodes — I don't want to in any way suggest that the other ones weren't as interesting. I just wanted to highlight the ones that I thought manifested some of these themes. And to recap them, the five themes are: aligning our values with our actions, using intentional structures for self-development, practicing information architecture at scale, tools and methods for visualizing systemic intent and then finally, thinking beyond the brain. These are subjects that I care about. And it's no accident that we end up having conversations about these things on the show. One of the interesting things about revisiting them now at the end of the year, is that I can start seeing threads that run through several of the themes. For example, the idea that we need to visualize abstract and complex systems, and that doing so allows us to have better conversations about them. That seems to be a thread that's running through various of these themes. It's true, whether we are talking about our own internal values or our career development, or whether we're talking about a service that we are looking to develop for our clients. And like I've said before, I think that designers — and particularly structurally- and systemically-minded designers, such as information architects — are particularly well-suited to visualize systems in this way. The other thread that I see running through all of this is the importance of considering the context that we are working with and working on, and not just the content of what we're designing. The things that we make are going to be experienced in some kind of environment, whether it's a physical environment or some kind of information environment. And the environment makes a big difference. We understand things in context. And part of what we do as information architects is establish those contexts. That's one of the reasons why I've been emphasizing these conversations about embodied cognition and the extended mind. Because science is making it increasingly clear that thinking happens, not just in our nervous systems, but in our bodies. And more to the point here, it happens out in the world. It happens in our environments and it happens in the tools that we interact with. And again, it's a system that is comprised by ourselves as actors, agents, but also the environments in which we're operating. And we can configure those environments in various ways to help us think better. And I think that this is an important frontier, so to speak, an important area of development for people who design structures of information, who create contexts through language and signs. I've loved the conversations that we've had on the show this year. And that is mostly due to the fact that the guests have been great. I am very grateful to everyone who has agreed to be on the show to have me interview them, to share their ideas, their work, their research, their experience with us. I also want to thank Sarah Clarkson, who I have not acknowledged in the show before. And I'm long overdue in doing that, but Sarah helps me edit the podcast. And her help has been invaluable in getting these shows out to you on time. And of course, I'm very grateful for you; for the fact that you are listening to this, that you have decided to make the show a part of your podcast listening. I would love to know whether there's anything that we can do to make things better. So, please drop by the informed.life, and leave us a note. But for now, I'll just tell you that I am planning to keep the show going. I have guests already lined up for next year. I'm excited about these conversations: having them and also being able to share them with you. So again, thank you. I wish you and yours happy holidays and I look forward to sharing more with you next year.

Musician and music journalist Matt LeMay returns to the record store to discuss the top 5 guitar parts. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

Join our chat this Métis Monday with Matt LeMay. He is a a bestselling, multiple award-winning Métis filmmaker, who owns and operates LeMay Media. Matt chats with us about his path to becoming a well established videographer,  his experience with telling Indigenous stories through film, and his advice to Métis youth.Check out his work here -  https://www.lemaymedia.net/

Matt LeMay is a product management consultant and author. He's a co-founder and partner at Sudden Compass, which helps companies reconnect with their customers and helps teams focus on addressing human needs. He's the author of Agile for Everybody and Product Management in Practice. In this conversation, Matt shares with us One Page / One Hour, his pledge to make project collaboration more agile. Listen to the show Download episode 59 Show notes Matt LeMay Sudden Compass One Page / One Hour Tricia Wang The Anatomy of an Amazon 6-pager Designstaq Some show notes may include Amazon affiliate links. I get a small commission for purchases made through these links. Read the transcript Jorge: Matt, welcome to the show. Matt: Jorge, thank you so much for having me. Jorge: Well, I'm very excited to have you here. For folks who might not know you, would you please introduce yourself? About Matt Matt: Sure! So, my name is Matt LeMay. I'm a partner at a collective consultancy called Sudden Compass. My career has been kind of all over the place. I was a professional musician in my early twenties and a music writer. I worked in marketing for nonprofits. I accidentally became a product manager and made so many mistakes, mistakes that keep giving in the sense that I am still learning and sharing lessons from the many mistakes I made as a product manager. And now I'm mostly helping teams manage the way they work together to solve problems, which is really, I think, the thread that's run through everything I've done from being a musician and working with my band, to being a product manager and working with developers and designers, to being a coach and consultant and working with cross-functional teams that span marketing and sales and everything else. Jorge: Well, that makes me super intrigued. What are the connections between managing the work of creating music and product management? Matt: Yeah, that's a great question. And it's kind of the question that got me into product management in the first place. When I was in a band and kind of informally managing the band, a lot of the work I did was managing specialized skills. You know, our bass player was a really good bass player. I didn't know how to play bass like that, but I knew where we needed to go. When we worked with mastering engineers and mixing engineers, I didn't know how to do that work, but I knew what we needed to deliver. It was a lot of managing complex specialized work to achieve some outcome, which spanned both emotional outcomes, creative outcomes — and though they were hardly in the super exciting range — business outcomes as well. We needed to be able to at least break even when we were going on tour in order to have any plausible defensibility to continue going on tour, which was something we really wanted to do. So, a lot of what I learned was about how to motivate and communicate and coordinate specialized work in the service of creating something that nobody could create on their own. And really that's a lot of what I was able to bring... when I was doing well as a product manager, what I was able to bring to that experience was... you know, I've told people that when I was a musician, convincing four tired people to wake up at six in the morning to drive from Columbus, Ohio to Dayton, Ohio, and play a concert for 10 people and lose money on it, it was a great team motivation challenge. You have to really learn why people are doing what they're doing. What they're excited about, how to get people through difficult times, how to get people excited about the work that they're doing, even when that work isn't really giving them the kind of external validation that I think we all want. So, in a lot of senses, I think software product management is much easier than being a musician. And in other ways, it's more challenging. Jorge: I'm not a musician myself, but I would imagine that musicians also have like their own expression that they want to bring to the project. And somehow balancing the personal needs of the individual with the overall needs of the group must also be a factor, no? Matt: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, It's kind of a joke among mixing engineers. But when you've got a band in a room and they're finishing a record, everybody just wants their own instrument to be louder. And at a certain point, if you make all the instruments louder then everything sounds quieter. If you're not willing to be subtractive, then everything you add actually makes the finished product weaker and less focused and less compelling. Which I think is very true in product development as well. If everybody has their feature that they want to build, if everybody wants to highlight their own individual contributions, you very quickly get to a point where the thing you're building no longer makes any sense. Where if you can't prioritize, if you can't think systematically and then think structurally about how everybody's contributions come together to create something new and meaningful, then you wind up with something which is just a collection of features, or a collection of ideas that really don't coalesce into something interesting or powerful, or that solves a problem. So, I've been on both sides of that one. I've been the person saying, "make my instrument louder in the mix!" I've been the person doing the mix and trying to manage a band full of of people saying, "make my instrument louder in the mix." I think both in music creation and in software product management, you really learn to recognize the power of subtraction. That the most meaningful work you can do is often subtractive work, not additive work. That constraints and subtractions and blank spaces are really what define the work that you're doing more so than features and additions and things that you add in. One Page / One Hour Jorge: That is a perfect segue to the reason why I wanted to talk with you, which is that I saw something that you built called, "One Page / One Hour." And I was hoping you could tell us about that. Matt: Sure. So, One Page / One Hour... I'll give you the kind of brief backstory. In my coaching work, I spend a lot of time talking to product managers who are torn between two things. Between on the one hand, the work that they believe is going to deliver outcomes for their team, their customers, and their business. And on the other hand, the work that they believe is going to bring them recognition and praise as individuals. And these two things are almost always in some degree of tension with each other. Because in a lot of cases, for product managers, the most meaningful work you can do leaves no trace. That leaves no deliverable. There's nothing you can point to and say, "I did this." Instead, your team's success is your success. Your team's work is your work. And for product managers who... many of us tend to be overachievers. Tend to be, you know, people who are very accomplishment and recognition-driven. This creates a real tension. As if you'd make, for example, a beautiful 20 slide deck and present it to company leadership, then you are likely to get praise and recognition. However, all that time and effort you spent on that beautiful 20 slide deck is likely not going up in the product. It's not resulting in any value for your customers. And I've seen product managers who will, for example, pull visual designers off of product design and have them help them design the deck, and walk out of that presentation, feeling validated and accomplished, even though they've just spent tens, if not hundreds of hours on something which doesn't actually deliver any value to the customer and only marginally delivers value to the business. So, in my coaching work, I found myself advising a lot of product managers to start really small, make something that is incomplete and messy, bring it to your team and then work together to co-create from there. I brought this experience to Trisha [Wang] and Sonny Bates, our other partner, and they both kind of smirked at me. And I said, "why are you smirking at me? What's that look?" And they said, "Matt, you are worse about this than anyone we know! You are always showing up — just in our internal meetings -with these beautiful, like 20 page, 'look at this incredible workshop plan I put together!' You are the thirstiest person we have ever worked with in terms of wanting feedback and wanting that validation! And it's funny, but good that you are realizing in your coaching work that that is not the most productive pattern." So, I thought about that for a second, and I said, "you are absolutely right. I need to shift this." Because Trisha is a genius and a powerhouse and I want her to be impressed by the work I'm doing. I want her to be like, "Matt, you're smart. I feel good about working with you." So, I realized that if we wanted to change that behavior, we needed to change the incentives. In other words, we needed to create a situation where if I showed up with something too finished and polished and impressive, I would actually get negative feedback, not positive feedback. So, I wrote up this pledge to my business partners saying I'm willing to forego the sense of individual accomplishment that comes from presenting finished and polished deliverables to my colleagues. I promise that I will spend no more than one page and one hour working on any deliverable — any document — before I bring it to the team. In other words, if I show up with five beautifully formatted pages or a one-page that took me 10 hours to create, I want you to hold me accountable to that. I want you to say, "man, why did you do this? We made a deal. We made a commitment to each other! We all know that if we actually want to deliver value, if we want to do valuable work, we need to collaborate earlier on. You can't go off onto your own and create this big thing, and then just want us to tell you how great it is!" So, I did this and massive credit to Tricia who said, "publish this!" Who said, "put this out there. This is not just for you. This is really gonna make a difference." So, we put together a One Page / One Hour website and we've been putting it out there and it's been just incredible to see folks from so many different organizations, people who I have never spoken to, who so far as I know, have never attended a talk I've given, just find this and share it with each other and take this pledge, which now has over a hundred people from over 75 organizations all over the world committed to spending no more than One Page / One Hour on anything before sharing it with their colleagues. Jorge: That's really awesome. And it's... well, proof that it works: it's how I came to you, right? Matt: I hope so. Jorge: I feel totally identified with the problem as you described it. I too am very thirsty for that kind of adulation that comes from making something beautiful — and perhaps overwrought — if I am hearing correctly, the spirit of it. And you're describing it as a tool to collaborate with your colleagues. I'm wondering, as a consultant, if the boundary for collaboration stops with your team, or if you also extend this to your customers as well? Your clients. Because I'll just say, like, in my case, I feel most compelled to share the beautiful thing when I'm presenting to the customer, right? Matt: You know, it's funny. I used to do a lot of training work in ad agencies. And I would talk to them a lot about how to do paper prototyping in particular, how to do really low fidelity prototyping. And they would all say the same thing, which is, "yeah, this is great, but we could never show this to a client. We can never sketch something on the back of a napkin and show it to a client." They would say, "why isn't this finished? Why isn't this beautiful?" And I kept thinking to myself, I'm also training and coaching a lot of the companies that are your clients... people are pretty capable of understanding if you show them a sketch on the back of a napkin that it's not intended to be something finished and polished. People are actually much more open to seeing unfinished and to participating in the co-creation of unfinished things than I think we think they're going to be. And one thing I've found really helpful about One Page / One Hour is especially since it's one of our calling cards as a consultancy now, it gives us a way to present unfinished, unpolished deliverables to clients that feels purposeful. Where rather than just showing them something and saying, "yeah, here's what we did. Whatever." We're letting them in on this little operational secret of ours. We're saying, "we have this guiding principle called One Page / One Hour, and we're going to agree to this with you. So, you're always going to be in on the ground floor with us. We're never going to bring something to you, which you're going to have to feel even remotely guilty about ripping apart." We did a One Page / One Hour exercise with a client once where they were 75 pages into an organizational transformation plan. And they had brought us on to help them with this plan. And we said, "tell you what, what if we do a One Page / One Hour pass, just synthesizing this down. You put together all ... this big thing. We're going to just spend One Page / One Hour reading your 75-slide deck, distilling it down and reflecting it back to you." And they said, "sure, why not?" So, first of all, it's very hard to read a 75-slide deck in one hour, which already helped them understand that asking everybody in their company to read a 75 slide deck means that you're asking people for a lot of their time. But we did our best to distill this down, and we presented it back to this leadership group. And they got furious. They said, "this is not what we intended at all. We don't want people to take this away. We don't want people to take that away. You captured this idea, which is totally the opposite of what we wanted." And we said, "Great. Hey, if this is the best we can come up within one hour, then there's probably some contradictions in this document you put together. What may have happened is that you have a leadership team, which can't actually agree on some of these things. So, each person just puts 10 slides in there. Those 10 slides are totally in conflict with each other, but because you can always add more, you haven't actually identified that conflict. You've just worked around it." And they said, "huh. You're right. This is really... this is really helpful!" but then something really interesting happened. They started saying, "well, but you know, don't worry. We don't have to throw out the work you did. It's great. We realized...." I said, "I don't care! I literally spent an hour on this. You know, how long I spent on this!" How many times have you done an hour of something? If the takeaway from this one hour is that you need to align as a group and work within constraints to actually resolve these conflicts? Then it's a success, even if we throw it out. So, it's been really helpful, not just to work in this One Page / One Hour way with clients, but to share with them why and how we're doing this. To let them in — into this world of One Page / One Hour, so when they receive an unfinished, unpolished deliverable, there's no chance that they'll think, "why is this unfinished and unpolished?" They understand that they've been inducted into this world of One Page / One Hour and they feel really awesome because they're seeing this work better for them too, and they're like, "wow, I get to participate in this in a different way!" So, there's that meta layer on top of the One Page / One Hour pledge where it's not just the way of working, but it's the conversation and the agreement to the way of working that also clears and creates a different kind of space for collaboration, including with clients and customers. Modes of communication Jorge: Sounds like a little bit of a jiujitsu move, where you take what is potentially a liability and turn it into an asset, right? And it speaks to this shifting of incentives that you spoke of earlier. I'm wondering what that does to the intensity of communications. Because obviously if you're spending less time working on the artifact and sharing it more quickly, that speaks to a higher volume of messaging. And is that an issue? How does that get managed here? Matt: I'm so glad you asked that question because part of the point of One Page / One Hour is to force us out of our comfort zone a little bit. Is to get us having those conversations with other people before we're sure about the path that we're taking. Before we're confident in the deliverable we're creating. And that is emotionally difficult. It forces people into a very challenging mode of communication. And as I coach more teams through this, I'm just appreciating that much more. That in a sense, One Page / One Hour also forces you to level up your communication skills. It forces you to get more comfortable communicating when you don't have control. This has been a big theme in so many of the conversations I've been having with teams in the last couple of weeks is: what does it mean to be willing to give up control? When are we truly willing to give up control? When are we willing to let someone else see something we're working on before we feel confident enough in it that we would do that necessarily of our own accord, if we hadn't made this commitment to each other? I think that's really one of the biggest challenges around this, and one of the reasons why it's so hard to keep up with it is that we do have to be forced into... I think you're right: a more intense form of communication, a more vulnerable form of communication, a form of communication where we don't know what the outcome is going to be going into a conversation nor are we trying to convince or persuade or sell people into an outcome. We are genuinely open to things going in an unexpected direction. And the value of that is pretty clear and straightforward. But the challenge of that is something that I think people often underestimate until they find themselves having to do it themselves. Jorge: One method that I was reminded of when I read about One Page / One Hour is Amazon's 6-page memo idea. And the main similarity there is that it feels like they both impose constraints on the format in which things are going to be. It time boxes the activity, and also constrains the format in which it's going to be presented. As I understand the 6-page memo, the idea there is that it'd be shared prior to meeting so that people have an opportunity to review that. And I'm wondering if there are any communication best practices around One Page / One Hour that would be analogous to that. Matt: That is another great question. It's funny. To me, the big differentiator between the narrative memo per Amazon and One Page / One Hour? Well, two things. Number one: One Page / One Hour includes that explicit time box. You cannot spend more than an hour. The trap I've fallen into with narrative memos as a writer is that I can spend forever writing a page. It's funny, the program I was in in college had a one-page maximum on all papers. It was sort of a critical theory, very like, post-modern studies kind of program. And a lot of people would take it because all the papers were a maximum of one page. So how hard could it be? It turns out it is really hard, especially when you're working with really complex ideas. So, for me personally, if I just have a format constraint, I'll spend way too long trying to make it perfect. So, it's the duality of the format and the time constraint that I've found really helpful for me to not let myself negotiate out of the constraint. The other thing is that One Page doesn't need to be one page of text. One page can be one page that you've sketched out. It can be one drawing with some text around it. You know, I work with people who are very visual. I'm not a very visual person. But One Page / One Hour can be one page of visuals. It can be one slide. You can use visuals within that format to communicate between people who are more words-oriented and people who are more visuals-oriented. As to the question of how to share it, the timing of this is perfect. I've been using this technique a lot, which I'm planning to write up later today called the "Synchronous Sandwich." The synchronous sandwich is how I've been structuring almost every meeting and activity that I do remotely in particular. And a synchronous sandwich is: an asynchronous pre-read, a synchronous meeting, and an asynchronous follow-up. In other words, you send something through as a pre-read, using a lot of these same concepts. So, you time box how long you expect somebody to take to send the pre-read and how long it will take them to read the pre-read. Then you work through the document or do something synchronously together, and then you send through a follow-up or a revised copy of that deliverable or whatever it is afterwards. I've been really lucky because in a lot of my coaching work, I've worked with people who are not afraid to raise questions and challenges. And when I started doing more of this synchronous working through things, some of the people I coached said, "you know, for me personally, I need a little time to think about it before we go into a meeting. I don't like being on the spot. I don't like showing up and you're asking me something I haven't had a chance to think about until we're in the meeting together." So, I found that that synchronous sandwich format gives people who need a little bit of time to process offline, a chance to do so. You're really structuring and using that synchronous time well, and then you have a chance to follow up afterwards. A lot of the day-long whiteboard-y type sessions I used to do in person are now three, one and a half hour synchronous sandwiches. We have a chance to pre-read work together, regroup, pre-read, work together, regroup, and... it works really well with One Page / One Hour-style documents so that we can actually work through the document, edit the document together synchronously, and still have a chance to do some of that preparation and pre-reading asynchronously. Granularity of problems Jorge: That makes a lot of sense, and this sounds like a really good approach. I love this idea of the synchronous sandwich. It sounds like something that can be applied even to other ways of working, you know, beyond the One Page / One Hour. I'm wondering if there are some types of... I don't like using the word "problems?" But some types of issues that you're working around that lend themselves better to the One Page / One Hour approach than others? And I'm wondering specifically about granularity. If there are some... I'll use the word problems, why not? That are small enough to be dealt with in a One Page / One Hour format versus others that are so huge that maybe you need to pull back too far for it to be useful. Matt: It's so it's so funny because that was how I approached this work at first as well. I was thinking of it for more granular issues One Page / One Hour would be a more accessible and more valuable approach. A year into this, I actually feel the exact opposite way. That the bigger and more strategic and more high-level something is, the more important it is that you take this One Page / One Hour approach and involve more people earlier on. I've been finding myself in a lot of coaching conversations with product managers, hearing people say to me, “we've got to put together a strategy for my team. So, I need two weeks to come up with a strategy.” Which is dangerous when you think about it, because if one person goes off for two weeks and crafts this impeccable-seeming team strategy, the team might not feel invested in it. But that person who came up with it is going to feel really invested in it. So, I've been finding for some of these high level, really big picture challenges, One Page / One Hour is actually the best possible approach. I've had some coaching conversations where I'll say to our product manager, "all right, we've got a half hour left on the call. Let's draft our strategy now. Who are we solving for? What problems are we trying to solve? How will we know if we've solved them? Great. Bring that to the team and see what they think!" So, the kind of paradox of One Page / One Hour is that the bigger and more difficult to granular-ize a problem seems? The more transformative a One Page / One Hour approach can be, which has genuinely surprised me. Closing Jorge: That is so exciting to hear that and intriguing. And I also think that it is a good place for us to wrap the conversation. I definitely want to learn more and I'm expecting that folks listening in want to as well. Where can folks follow up with you? Matt: Yeah. So onepageonehour.com is the website. We just worked with the fantastic team at Design Stack to revamp the site. So, we now have some templates and resources, some kind of "One Page / One Hour — Getting Started" if you are somebody who is terrified of a blank page, as many of us are. You can see a list of all the people who've taken the pledge. You can take the pledge yourself and add your name to the website. I am still — manually, I receive an email every time somebody takes the pledge and I go into our website and add their name and go into MailChimp and add their email address, if they've requested so. You can join the mailing list where we communicate with each other and share our own experiences and tips and tricks. So, onepageonehour.com is definitely the place to start. Jorge: Fantastic. Matt, thank you so much for being with us. Matt: Thank you so much. This was such a great conversation. I appreciated the questions very much.

Music journalist and author Matt LeMay visits the record store as Tara and Seth discuss the E.P. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

On episode of 14 of Broken Records, Remfry and Steve get down and dirty with Liz Phair, the American singer-songwriter's 4th studio album from 2003 (originally aired on https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/97-i-like-shagging-get-over-it/id1417888519?i=1000477672991 (Riot Act #97) on 12th June 2020). Despite the album debuting at #27 on the Billboard 200, the album came under a lot of criticism from frosty critics who didn't seem to be able to grasp the concept that, sometimes, women are horny. At Metacritic, a review aggregator site, the album holds a score of 40 out of 100. Many decried Phair for "selling out", and she became a "piñata for critics", according to The New York Times. The newspaper's Meghan O'Rourke titled her review of the album "Liz Phair's Exile in Avril-ville", and complained that Phair "gushes like a teenager", having "committed an embarrassing form of career suicide." Matt LeMay from Pitchfork rated the album a 0.0 out of 10, stating, "it's sad that an artist as groundbreaking as Phair would be reduced to cheap publicity stunts and hyper-commercialized teen-pop." But was such criticism phair?

Matt LeMay has a problem. He’s a content machine. He’s written 3 books (two books on product and one on the musician Elliot Smith), plenty of music, and much more – which means that he’s prone to going down a rabbit hole before sharing his work with a team. To combat that, he now employs [...] Read more » The post Perfection is the Enemy of Progress – Matt LeMay on The Product Experience appeared first on Mind the Product.

Product Love Podcast: Matt Lemay, co-founder and partner at Sudden Compass by Eric Boduch

Today we explore the history of the Product Manager from it's early ideation by Neil McElroy to it's growth at Hewlett-Packard thru it's maturation at Microsoft and into today. We talk with former Microsoft Project Manager, Ellen Chisa, Former Microsoft Engineer (and 55th hire), Mark Zbikowski and Matt LeMay, the Author of Product Management in Practice, about this evolution over the past 80 years.  For Neil McElroy the Brand Men were essentially his manifesto on what would become a product manager today. Their responsibilities ranged from tracking sales to managing the product, advertising and promotions. They were to “take full responsibility” for the brands implementation of advertising and sales and take a ‘huge weight’ off of the sales managers who were both ideating and implementing growth strategies. Bill Hewlett and David Packard interpreted the Brand Man ethos as putting decision making as close as possible to the customer, and making the product manager the voice of the customer internally. In the book The Hewlett-Packard Way this is credited with sustaining Hewlett-Packard’s 50 year record of unbroken 20% year-on-year growth between 1943 and 1993. BIG NEWS We've officially launched the Rocketship Premium Podcast feed! Join today for $5/month or $40 annually, and get access to exclusive bonus shows of Rocketship, previews of new seasons, and an ad free version of every episode of the podcast. Check it out today by clicking here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Conversation with Matt Lemay, the author of “Agile for Everybody”, a Co-founder and Partner at Sudden Compass, and one of the keynotes at the 2019 MarTech East conference

In depth look at the world of all things righteous. We brought this one on live stream and answered so many fan questions. Were so stoked to have Matt Lemay back on the show for another episode!! Follow on Facebook: www.facebook.com/righteousamenities1/ Follow on Instagram: www.instagram.com/righteousamenities/ Subscribe on Youtube: youtu.be/oGl4jDejdjk Follow on Snapchat: www.snapchat.com/add/righteousgoods Shop at Marketplace: www.facebook.com/righteousameniti…ef=page_internal Follow on TikTok:www.tiktok.com/@righteousameniti…y&enter_from=h5_m

Diving in to the great righteous experiences of Matt Lemay & Ray Makusiewicz. They take a trip down a very righteous path to the motherland of different situations and problems. THIS IS A MUST LISTEN. Lets. Get. Righteous.

Today we explore the history of the Product Manager from it's early ideation by Neil McElroy to it's growth at Hewlett-Packard thru it's maturation at Microsoft and into today. We talk with former Microsoft Project Manager, Ellen Chisa, Former Microsoft Engineer (and 55th hire), Mark Zbikowski and Matt LeMay, the Author of Product Management in Practice, about this evolution over the past 80 years. For Neil McElroy the Brand Men were essentially his manifesto on what would become a product manager today.  Their responsibilities ranged from tracking sales to managing the product, advertising and promotions. They were to “take full responsibility” for the brands implementation of advertising and sales and take a ‘huge weight’ off of the sales managers who were both ideating and implementing growth strategies. Bill Hewlett and David Packard interpreted the Brand Man ethos as putting decision making as close as possible to the customer, and making the product manager the voice of the customer internally. In the book The Hewlett-Packard Way this is credited with sustaining Hewlett-Packard’s 50 year record of unbroken 20% year-on-year growth between 1943 and 1993. This episode is brought to you by Gusto, making payroll, benefits, and HR easy for modern small businesses. Rocketship listeners get three months free at Gusto.com/rocketship. This episode is also brought to you by Airtable, which is the all-in-one platform for product managers. Rocketship listeners can receive $50 in credit by signing up at Airtable.com/rocketship. This episode is also brought to you by DigitalOcean, the cloud platform that makes it easy for startups to launch high performance modern apps and websites. Learn more about DigitalOcean and apply for Hatch at do.co/rocketship. This episode is also brought to you by .tech, where you can secure your .tech domain name today. Rocketship listeners can receive a 90% discount on their .tech domain names by going to go.tech/rocketship and using coupon code ROCKETSHIP.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Our guest today is Matt LeMay, the author of Product Management in Practice and his most recent book: Agile for Everybody: Creating Fast, Flexible, and Customer First Organizations. In this episode, Matt discusses Agile for Everybody, which shows how to apply the principles of agile development from the world of software to the world of consulting and knowledge work. You can find out more about Matt on his personal website: mattlemay.com Matt is partners with Sunny Bates and Tricia Wang in a consulting firm named Sudden Compass, and you can learn about their work at https://www.suddencompass.com/ Sunny Bates is one of the master connectors of the 21st century, and you can hear from Sunny on Episode 64 of this show. Sign up for the weekly Unleashed email at: askunleashed.com

Global Product Management Talk is pleased to bring you the next episode of... The Everyday Innovator with host Chad McAllister, PhD. The podcast is all about helping people involved in innovation and managing products become more successful, grow their careers, and STANDOUT from their peers. About the Episode: To be a successful product manager you need several competencies. We tend to be “T-Shaped” people with capabilities in several areas and much more depth in one area, such as development, design, research, etc. Product managers early in their career focus on learning the skills to get the job done — the technical skills of product management. Only later you might realize those skills are not enough and that the so-called “soft skills” are what really make the difference. Learning those skills sooner results in faster career growth, which is why I invited product manager and author Matt LeMay to join us. He recently wrote the book, Product Management in Practice: A Real-World Guide to the Key Connective Role of the 21st Century. Matt has helped build and scale product management practices at companies ranging from early-stage startups to Fortune 50 enterprises. In the interview, he explains the CORE connectivity skills successful product managers need. CORE is an acronym for: Communication,Organization,ResearchExecution

Matt wrote the book he wishes he would have had starting out as a product manager. To be a successful product manager you need several competencies. We tend to be “T-Shaped” people with capabilities in several areas and much more depth in one area, such as development, design, research, etc. Product managers early in their […]

Matt wrote the book he wishes he would have had starting out as a product manager. To be a successful product manager you need several competencies. We tend to be “T-Shaped” people with capabilities in several areas and much more depth in one area, such as development, design, research, etc. Product managers early in their […]

Today we explore the history of the Product Manager from it's early ideation by Neil McElroy to it's growth at Hewlett-Packard thru it's maturation at Microsoft and into today. We talk with former Microsoft Project Manager, Ellen Chisa, Former Microsoft Engineer (and 55th hire), Mark Zbikowski and Matt LeMay, the Author of Product Management in Practice, about this evolution over the past 80 years.  For Neil McElroy the Brand Men were essentially his manifesto on what would become a product manager today.  Their responsibilities ranged from tracking sales to managing the product, advertising and promotions. They were to “take full responsibility” for the brands implementation of advertising and sales and take a ‘huge weight’ off of the sales managers who were both ideating and implementing growth strategies. Bill Hewlett and David Packard interpreted the Brand Man ethos as putting decision making as close as possible to the customer, and making the product manager the voice of the customer internally. In the book The Hewlett-Packard Way this is credited with sustaining Hewlett-Packard’s 50 year record of unbroken 20% year-on-year growth between 1943 and 1993. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The O’Reilly Design Podcast: The connective nature of product management, “no work above, no work below,” and the importance of talking to people who aren’t your customers. This week, I sit down with Matt LeMay, product coach, consultant, and author of Product Management in Practice. We talk about the four guiding principles of product management, what he has learned about himself as a product manager, and how to conduct meaningful research. Defining product management To me, being a product manager is all about being the connective tissue, the glue that connects whatever the different roles are within your organization. The specific organizational roles might vary, depending on where you are. You might be working more closely with technical people. You might be working more closely with marketing people, but whoever those different players are, your job as product manager is to be the aligner in chief or translator in chief, the person who is ultimately responsible and accountable for everybody having a shared language and a shared sense of purpose. CORE product management skills The four guiding principles came out of the four CORE skills, which is an acronym for communication, organization, research, and execution. I wrote a piece on Medium a few years ago, which was my attempt to challenge the traditional three-way Venn diagram of product management with business, technology, and UX. Having worked at a lot of enterprises and companies where people might not actually be that close to the technology side or might not be thinking about user experience as a day-to-day concern, I felt like those three areas captured a common set of subject matter knowledge that product managers will encounter, but not the actual skills they'll need to connect between those different subject matter ideas. Some people commented and rightly pointed out that something seemed to be missing from it. That thing seemed to be an element of research, or the ability to actually glean information from the outside world. Erika Hall, in the book Just Enough Research, says that, "Research is just applied critical thinking," which I love as a way of defining research. I like using the word ‘research’ because it also makes it clear that it's not just about being smart; it's about actually doing the work of seeking out alternate perspectives, and explanations, and ideas. These four skills—communication, organization, research, and execution—each one comes with a guiding principle, and I stand by these four guiding principles. For communication, the guiding principal is clarity over comfort, which is really going back to what I was talking about earlier, about this idea that there are times as a product manager when you will have to state things that might seem painfully obvious or ask questions that you know are wading into really difficult political challenges for the organization, but if there is not absolute clarity in your team and in your organization about what people are working on and why, then you cannot succeed as a product manager. If people don't know what they're doing and why they're doing it, and know that really clearly, then it doesn't matter how good the thing is that you ship or how quickly you ship it; the team will eventually start to fragment and fall apart because that understanding is so fragile and so susceptible to miscommunication and to tomfoolery by people who are trying to steer the product direction one way or another. For the organization principle, we have ‘change the rules, don't break the rules.’ This was another one that took me a long time to understand. I come from music. I am not a process person. I think a lot of folks who start out as product managers are like, "Yeah. All this stuff is stupid. We shouldn't have 800 steps to do everything. We'll just work really fast. We'll move fast and break stuff, and it'll be awesome," but there's a downside to that, which is that when the rules don't work and people work around the rules, you're basically incentivizing rule breakers and people who are not communicating well. The people who figured out how to game the system accomplish the most, and the people who are trying to go through the system are dinged for not shipping enough software or not being performant enough in whatever way. For research we have to live in the user's reality, which is pretty straightforward, but also very difficult. When you work in an organization, you live in that organization's reality. That is your day to day. You believe the things people in that organization believe, and it's shockingly easy to become fundamentally misaligned with the reality of your customer, especially when the metrics are telling you you're doing an okay job, but your customers are actually not that engaged. Living in your customer's reality is about getting beyond just looking at isolated metrics, particularly vanity metrics, to understand your customers and really understand their perspective, their world view, how it's changing, how it's evolving, so you can continue to meet their needs as they change and evolve, rather than getting stuck in the way things have always been and the status quo of your organization. Finally, for execution, this is one one my favorite ones: no work above, no work below. This means that as a product manager, you have to do whatever it takes for your team to succeed. It's pretty well documented that there can be no work below you or beneath you as a product manager. Right? If you have to bring coffee and donuts to the team, that's what you do. If you have to learn how to do something that isn't super fun and exciting to you, that's what you do. Product managers who say, ‘That's not my job,’ or, ‘That's not something I like to do,’ do not generally succeed. Living in your user’s reality I'm a firm believer in qualitative research generally, but within that set of qualitative research, I'm a firm believer in talking to people who are not your best customers. I'm a firm believer in talking to people who are considered casual users or users who abandoned your product. There's a tendency, when companies do qualitative research, to over index on the power users and the good customers and to just keep building things for them, but when you talk about living in your user's reality, you're really talking about living in multiple realities for multiple users. In a lot of cases, the people you're talking to need to be the people you're most afraid to hear from or who you initially feel have the most tenuous and least passionate understanding of your project, because those are often the people who are going to make or break your product's success and who are going to be where your growth opportunities come from. When I talk about living in your user's reality, a lot of that has to do with getting outside of the closed feedback loop of looking for the vanity metrics that support that you're doing a good job and talking to the good customers who will tell you how much they love your product and also have a million product ideas. It's the people who don't really have any product ideas who are just like, ‘Yeah. I don't know. It's fine. Sometimes I use it. Sometimes I don't’—those are the people whose perspective you really need to understand the most because their perspective is probably the farthest away from yours. Not taking those people seriously, not considering them, is a very dangerous thing that I've seen a lot of product organizations do and fall into. It's funny. I was at a training with a financial services company a few weeks ago. We were walking through some qualitative research, and people were getting very tense, ‘Well, I'm talking to somebody, but they went totally off into left field, and they're not talking about my product anymore. They're talking about their life.’ I get that concern. Right? Because you're there to do a job, but there's an element, and this feels sort of esoteric, but I think it's true, there's an element of faith that goes into those kinds of conversations, where if you really trust and follow somebody's own line of thinking, there will be value in it, but if you go in trying to steer a conversation back to your assumptions or the things that you want to be true, that is exactly where the conversation will go. Related resources: Product Management in Practice—live online training course by Matt LeMay Product Management for the Enterprise—online video tutorial by Blair Reeves

The O’Reilly Design Podcast: The connective nature of product management, “no work above, no work below,” and the importance of talking to people who aren’t your customers. This week, I sit down with Matt LeMay, product coach, consultant, and author of Product Management in Practice. We talk about the four guiding principles of product management, what he has learned about himself as a product manager, and how to conduct meaningful research. Defining product management To me, being a product manager is all about being the connective tissue, the glue that connects whatever the different roles are within your organization. The specific organizational roles might vary, depending on where you are. You might be working more closely with technical people. You might be working more closely with marketing people, but whoever those different players are, your job as product manager is to be the aligner in chief or translator in chief, the person who is ultimately responsible and accountable for everybody having a shared language and a shared sense of purpose. CORE product management skills The four guiding principles came out of the four CORE skills, which is an acronym for communication, organization, research, and execution. I wrote a piece on Medium a few years ago, which was my attempt to challenge the traditional three-way Venn diagram of product management with business, technology, and UX. Having worked at a lot of enterprises and companies where people might not actually be that close to the technology side or might not be thinking about user experience as a day-to-day concern, I felt like those three areas captured a common set of subject matter knowledge that product managers will encounter, but not the actual skills they'll need to connect between those different subject matter ideas. Some people commented and rightly pointed out that something seemed to be missing from it. That thing seemed to be an element of research, or the ability to actually glean information from the outside world. Erika Hall, in the book Just Enough Research, says that, "Research is just applied critical thinking," which I love as a way of defining research. I like using the word ‘research’ because it also makes it clear that it's not just about being smart; it's about actually doing the work of seeking out alternate perspectives, and explanations, and ideas. These four skills—communication, organization, research, and execution—each one comes with a guiding principle, and I stand by these four guiding principles. For communication, the guiding principal is clarity over comfort, which is really going back to what I was talking about earlier, about this idea that there are times as a product manager when you will have to state things that might seem painfully obvious or ask questions that you know are wading into really difficult political challenges for the organization, but if there is not absolute clarity in your team and in your organization about what people are working on and why, then you cannot succeed as a product manager. If people don't know what they're doing and why they're doing it, and know that really clearly, then it doesn't matter how good the thing is that you ship or how quickly you ship it; the team will eventually start to fragment and fall apart because that understanding is so fragile and so susceptible to miscommunication and to tomfoolery by people who are trying to steer the product direction one way or another. For the organization principle, we have ‘change the rules, don't break the rules.’ This was another one that took me a long time to understand. I come from music. I am not a process person. I think a lot of folks who start out as product managers are like, "Yeah. All this stuff is stupid. We shouldn't have 800 steps to do everything. We'll just work really fast. We'll move fast and break stuff, and it'll be awesome," but there's a downside to that, which is that when the rules don't work and people work around the rules, you're basically incentivizing rule breakers and people who are not communicating well. The people who figured out how to game the system accomplish the most, and the people who are trying to go through the system are dinged for not shipping enough software or not being performant enough in whatever way. For research we have to live in the user's reality, which is pretty straightforward, but also very difficult. When you work in an organization, you live in that organization's reality. That is your day to day. You believe the things people in that organization believe, and it's shockingly easy to become fundamentally misaligned with the reality of your customer, especially when the metrics are telling you you're doing an okay job, but your customers are actually not that engaged. Living in your customer's reality is about getting beyond just looking at isolated metrics, particularly vanity metrics, to understand your customers and really understand their perspective, their world view, how it's changing, how it's evolving, so you can continue to meet their needs as they change and evolve, rather than getting stuck in the way things have always been and the status quo of your organization. Finally, for execution, this is one one my favorite ones: no work above, no work below. This means that as a product manager, you have to do whatever it takes for your team to succeed. It's pretty well documented that there can be no work below you or beneath you as a product manager. Right? If you have to bring coffee and donuts to the team, that's what you do. If you have to learn how to do something that isn't super fun and exciting to you, that's what you do. Product managers who say, ‘That's not my job,’ or, ‘That's not something I like to do,’ do not generally succeed. Living in your user’s reality I'm a firm believer in qualitative research generally, but within that set of qualitative research, I'm a firm believer in talking to people who are not your best customers. I'm a firm believer in talking to people who are considered casual users or users who abandoned your product. There's a tendency, when companies do qualitative research, to over index on the power users and the good customers and to just keep building things for them, but when you talk about living in your user's reality, you're really talking about living in multiple realities for multiple users. In a lot of cases, the people you're talking to need to be the people you're most afraid to hear from or who you initially feel have the most tenuous and least passionate understanding of your project, because those are often the people who are going to make or break your product's success and who are going to be where your growth opportunities come from. When I talk about living in your user's reality, a lot of that has to do with getting outside of the closed feedback loop of looking for the vanity metrics that support that you're doing a good job and talking to the good customers who will tell you how much they love your product and also have a million product ideas. It's the people who don't really have any product ideas who are just like, ‘Yeah. I don't know. It's fine. Sometimes I use it. Sometimes I don't’—those are the people whose perspective you really need to understand the most because their perspective is probably the farthest away from yours. Not taking those people seriously, not considering them, is a very dangerous thing that I've seen a lot of product organizations do and fall into. It's funny. I was at a training with a financial services company a few weeks ago. We were walking through some qualitative research, and people were getting very tense, ‘Well, I'm talking to somebody, but they went totally off into left field, and they're not talking about my product anymore. They're talking about their life.’ I get that concern. Right? Because you're there to do a job, but there's an element, and this feels sort of esoteric, but I think it's true, there's an element of faith that goes into those kinds of conversations, where if you really trust and follow somebody's own line of thinking, there will be value in it, but if you go in trying to steer a conversation back to your assumptions or the things that you want to be true, that is exactly where the conversation will go. Related resources: Product Management in Practice—live online training course by Matt LeMay Product Management for the Enterprise—online video tutorial by Blair Reeves

In this Focus Forty episode of The Design Your Thinking Podcast, I talk to Matt LeMay who is a technology communicator, musician, author and the Co-founder of Constellate Data. Who is Matt LeMay? Matt LeMay is the co-founder of Constellate Data, a consultancy that helps companies bring human context and complexity back to their data. […]The post DYT 016 : Art of Active Listening and Product Management with Matt LeMay appeared first on .

Former Get Him Eat Him frontman and freelance writer Matt LeMay arrives backstage with a ton of torturous tour tales; everything from getting electrocuted onstage to being the unwanted live band at a "dance party" to fighting for guarantees and then being forced to watch Toto live DVDs while staying at Blood Cow's house in Nebraska.  Matt also talks about the trials of touring the States in a band where every member was under the age of 21.  We wind up having a terrific discussion about how people consume music, and how dem's the breaks for those of us trying to do something different.  Lots of sprited riff-raff with a dash of melancholy on this week's WORST GIG EVER! ITUNES USERS: GO HERE NON-ITUNES (LO)USERS: GO HERE TO DOWNLOAD MP3s!

What’s the first rule of bit.ly?…You can’t bit.ly a bit.ly! Mark and Clark talk to Matt LeMay of Bit.ly about their API’s, the analytics that they provide, how they are used, how they fit in to the internet ecosystem and where they are hoping to go in the future.

Lucky Dragons - "Power Melody" - Open Power 12'' EP [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-SA ] Dustin Wong - "Anniversary Song" - Let It Go [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-ND ] Set: Art vs. Content w/ Matt LeMay Matt LeMay is a writer, musician, coder and generally thinky/talky dude. His latest article, "Living in the Age of Art vs Content", is an in-depth answer to the question Zach Baron posed in the Village Voice: "Is It Possible to Sell Out in 2010?", and to Steve Albini dissin Sonic Youth for their Major Label move. Also referenced: Henry Rollins video and this NY Times article - "talkin Art vs Content w/ Matt LeMay" [backing tracks include Ja Prawn - "Gearworm" Lee Rosevere - "Backtime" and "Stormbox" Broke For Free - "Calm the Fuck Down" Patrick Lee - "Quittin' Time"] End of set Pierced Arrows - "In My Brain" - Straight to the Heart [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-SA ] The Paparazzi - "The Rococo Tape" - Ampeater's BreakThruRadio Compilation [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-ND ] My Teenage Stride - "Dr. Dayglo" - 5 new songs [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-ND ] Transmitters - "Radio Studente" - Count Your Blessings (1987-1989) [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-ND big shout out to Katya/Oddio Overplay for introducing Portugal's You Are Not Stealing Records to the FMA!] G.G. Allin's Dick - "Chaos Theory for a Box of Toys" - King of the Road [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-ND] James Yates - "A72" - Bad Panda #54 [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-SA] Blah Blah Blah - "In the Army" - Gold Collection [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-ND] Mastermind XS - "Memories of a Machine" - One Dub Many Roots [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-ND ] Raleigh Moncrief - "Cheese Steak" - Vitamins EP [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC ] http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/37990

Lucky Dragons - "Power Melody" - Open Power 12'' EP [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-SA ] Dustin Wong - "Anniversary Song" - Let It Go [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-ND ] Set: Art vs. Content w/ Matt LeMay Matt LeMay is a writer, musician, coder and generally thinky/talky dude. His latest article, "Living in the Age of Art vs Content", is an in-depth answer to the question Zach Baron posed in the Village Voice: "Is It Possible to Sell Out in 2010?", and to Steve Albini dissin Sonic Youth for their Major Label move. Also referenced: Henry Rollins video and this NY Times article - "talkin Art vs Content w/ Matt LeMay" [backing tracks include Ja Prawn - "Gearworm" Lee Rosevere - "Backtime" and "Stormbox" Broke For Free - "Calm the Fuck Down" Patrick Lee - "Quittin' Time"] End of set Pierced Arrows - "In My Brain" - Straight to the Heart [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-SA ] The Paparazzi - "The Rococo Tape" - Ampeater's BreakThruRadio Compilation [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-ND ] My Teenage Stride - "Dr. Dayglo" - 5 new songs [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-ND ] Transmitters - "Radio Studente" - Count Your Blessings (1987-1989) [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-ND big shout out to Katya/Oddio Overplay for introducing Portugal's You Are Not Stealing Records to the FMA!] G.G. Allin's Dick - "Chaos Theory for a Box of Toys" - King of the Road [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-ND] James Yates - "A72" - Bad Panda #54 [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-SA] Blah Blah Blah - "In the Army" - Gold Collection [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-ND] Mastermind XS - "Memories of a Machine" - One Dub Many Roots [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC-ND ] Raleigh Moncrief - "Cheese Steak" - Vitamins EP [Free Music Archive // Creative Commons BY-NC ] https://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/37990