Podcasts about Sunni Brown

Dalia El-Shimy, Director of UX Research at Wise, presents a framework for navigating product decision-making with confidence—from daily product decisions to the most complex and high-risk scenarios. Dalia shares how to classify decisions based on their level of risk and reversibility, along with questions and tactics to help determine the type of research or insights needed to better inform those decisions.About Dalia:Dalia is an engineer-turned-academic-turned-user-researcher. She is the Director of UX Research at Wise and the former Head of UX Research at Miro, where she helped build the team and discipline from the ground up. She started her career as a human-computer interaction researcher, then joined Shopify, where she helped scale the UX Research practice from a few researchers to a team of 60+ strong and co-led the craft across the entire organization. When she's not busy asking too many questions, she enjoys baking, eating, reading, and obsessing over all things David Bowie.Connect with Dalia:You can follow Dalia on LinkedIn or check out her website.Resources: Make Better Decisions by Thomas H. DavenportThis Is How Successful People Make Such Smart Decisions by Jeff HadenBrand Chu on MediumGamestorming by Dave Gray, Sunni Brown, and James Macanufo Follow Maze on Social Media:X: @mazedesignHQInstagram: @mazedesignHQLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mazedesignTo get notified when new episodes air, subscribe at maze.co/podcast.See you next time!

Sunni Brown is a social entrepreneur, acclaimed author, keynote speaker, Internal Family Systems Experiential Facilitator, Deep Self Designer, and American Zen chaplain-in-formation. Top 3 Value Bombs 1. Deep success is an internal resourcing situation rather than an external resourcing situation. 2. Inner World is the biggest driver of our decision-making that ultimately drives the direction of our lives. 3. Inner work leads to a deeper confidence that perseveres whatever happens , good or bad. It's the kind of confidence that will survive all conditions. For Game-Changers, Emerging Leaders, and People Living Into Purpose - The Inner Confidence Workshop Sponsors HubSpot: Get ready for growth, without the growing pains! Visit HubSpot.com/spotlight to see the dozens of major product updates that'll make impossible growth feel impossibly easy ThriveTime Show Attend the world's highest rated and most reviewed business growth workshop taught personally by Clay Clark and football great Tim Tebow at ThriveTimeShow.com/eofire

Sunni Brown is a social entrepreneur, acclaimed author, keynote speaker, Internal Family Systems Experiential Facilitator, Deep Self Designer, and American Zen chaplain-in-formation. Top 3 Value Bombs 1. Deep success is an internal resourcing situation rather than an external resourcing situation. 2. Inner World is the biggest driver of our decision-making that ultimately drives the direction of our lives. 3. Inner work leads to a deeper confidence that perseveres whatever happens , good or bad. It's the kind of confidence that will survive all conditions. For Game-Changers, Emerging Leaders, and People Living Into Purpose - The Inner Confidence Workshop Sponsors HubSpot: Get ready for growth, without the growing pains! Visit HubSpot.com/spotlight to see the dozens of major product updates that'll make impossible growth feel impossibly easy ThriveTime Show Attend the world's highest rated and most reviewed business growth workshop taught personally by Clay Clark and football great Tim Tebow at ThriveTimeShow.com/eofire

LEGO Alert! Around the 50-minute mark, Sunni busts out LEGO to answer some questions. ___________________ Hello there! We're Dr. Jane Hession and Ronan Healy. We're a husband and wife team and co-founders of the service design studio How Might We - www.howmightwe.design We're passionate about Play and provide online and in-house training in the LEGO Serious Play method to: 1) Third-level Educators - https://bit.ly/LSP_Ed_Innovators 2) Organisational Innovators - https://bit.ly/LSP_Org_Innovators Episode Twelve It's often tempting to describe a guest as a "Legend," but this label feels especially fitting for Sunni Brown. And we don't just mean legend in the sense of being "famous"- though Sunni deservingly is. We mean legend as in "a story handed down by our ancestors," as we believe Sunni embodies the stories of our ancestors. As the author of The Doodle Revolution, Sunni embodies our ancestors who used cave paintings to communicate hunting tactics, societal values, and intangible spiritual concepts. This connection is particularly strong with Sunni's new venture, the Centre for Deep Spiritual Design. As the co-author of Gamestorming, Sunni represents our ancestors who used games to teach skills, resolve conflicts, and strengthen bonds. These games were vital for transmitting cultural knowledge and identity across generations, and for Sunni across organisations. So there you have it. Sunni Brown. Legend. Sunni Who?  Sunni Brown is a social entrepreneur, bestselling author, keynote speaker, expert collaboration designer and facilitator, and earnest American Zen practitioner. She's the founder of creative consultancy Sunni Brown Ink and The Centre For Deep Self Design, and was named one of the “100 Most Creative People in Business” and one of the “10 Most Creative People on Twitter” by Fast Company. Her TED talk has drawn over 1.6 million views, and her work on visual thinking has been featured in every major U.S. publication, including The New York Times, The New York Post, The Wall Street Journal, Time Magazine, WIRED, and Entrepreneur. She has also been featured twice on CBS Sunday Morning and The TODAY Show. The former CEO of MURAL recruited her to be their first and only Innovator-in-Residence. Sun's two globally beloved books - Gamestorming and The Doodle Revolution have been translated into over 25 languages. She's one of the educators widely credited with the rise of visual thinking as a tool for deeper inquiry. Contact Details LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/sunnibrown/  Websites www.centerfordeepselfdesign.com www.sunnibrown.com  https://nothingintheway.substack.com/  Email sunni@deepselfdesign.com  Books The Doodle Revolution https://amzn.eu/d/eWjYiKI Timestamps (0:00) - Introduction and Welcome (0:14) - Guest Introduction: Sunni Brown (2:02) - Key Quotes from Sunni Brown (3:28) - Introduction to the Interview (4:04) - Sunni's Childhood and Personality (6:59) - Overcoming Adversity and Resilience (10:00) - Parenting and Play (13:07) - Stories of Vulnerability and Recovery (14:26) - Adult Playfulness and Attributes (17:08) - Primitive Ancestral Wisdom of Play (21:00) - The Value of Being Present (22:26) - Play as a Socializing Function (26:12) - Play in the Workplace (28:21) - The Importance of Play in Preventing Aging (30:00) - Facing the Unexpected (32:21) - Embracing Chaos for Creativity (35:33) - Advice for Young Professionals (39:35) - Explaining Work to a Child (40:54) - Career Evolution and Fuzzy Goals (45:14) - Current Work and Collaboration (48:11) - Doodling and Visual Thinking (49:30) - The Role of Visual Language (50:18) - Using LEGO for Creative Expression (51:00) - What Inspires Your Work (52:00) - Impact of Work on Perception (54:39) - Conceptualizing with LEGO (57:05) - Designing Systems for Collaboration (58:07) - Softening Separation (59:52) - Closing Remarks and Future Collaboration

Qualitätsanforderungen, auch bekannt als nicht-funktionale Anforderungen, sind entscheidend, damit die Software-Architektur tatsächlich die richtigen Probleme löst. Nur mit den passenden Qualitätsanforderungen kann man die geeigneten Technologien auswählen. Doch die richtigen Anforderungen zu finden, ist oft eine Herausforderung. In dieser Episode stellt Michael Plöd “Quality Storming” vor – einen Ansatz, mit dem man gemeinsam mit Domänen-Expert und anderen Stakeholdern kollaborativ Qualitätsanforderungen ermitteln kann. Links Michaels Artikel über Quality Storming Nicole Rauch zu Event Storming & Specification by Example Domain Story Telling mit Henning Schwentner und Stefan Hofer Folgen zu Collaborative Modeling Systems Thinking in Large-Scale Modeling with Xin Yao - OOP Special Beispiele für Quality Requirements Präsentation von Michael zu Quality Storming Dave Gray, Sunni Brown, James Macanufo: Gamestorming: A Playbook for Innovators, Rulebreakers, and Changemakers

Dave Gray describes himself as a possibilitarian. He focuses on helping people and teams realize their creative potential. Dave the author of several influential books, including Liminal Thinking and Gamestorming, which he co-authored with Sunni Brown and James Macanudo. He also founded the pioneering visual thinking company XPLANE. In this conversation, we discuss how to move beyond mental models that constrain us to open up new possibilities.Show notesDave GrayDave Gray - LinkedInThe Connected Company by Dave Gray and Thomas Vander WalGamestorming by Dave Gray, Sunni Brown, and James MacanufoLiminal Thinking by Dave GrayRed Herring (magazine) - WikipediaXPLANATIONSXPLANEGreg Petroff - LinkedInDouglas Engelbart - WikipediaAndy MatuschakSchool of the PossibleSchool of the Possible Campfire CallsShow notes include Amazon affiliate links. We get a small commission for purchases made through these links.If you're enjoying the show, please rate or review us in Apple's podcast directory:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-informed-life/id1450117117?itsct=podcast_box&itscg=30200This episode's transcript was produced by an AI. If you notice any errors, please get in touch.

On today's episode, Andrew Maier joins me for a discussion of usability testing and models.  We define usability testing and by using examples, we explore how it can make you a more efficient and effective developer.The Design of Everyday Things by Don NormanStuck?  Diagrams Help by Abby CovertHow to Make Sense of Any Mess by Abby CovertGamestorming by Dave Gray, Sunni Brown, and James MacanufoAbout Face by Alan Cooper, Et al.3 Lessons From Teaching A Course On UX Design by Andrew MaierFlagrantAndrew Maier on TwitterAndrew Maier on Mastodon

Sunni Brown is an intrepid and inspiring “creative” who is zooming through our world, project after project, sparking bursts of hidden potential everywhere she goes. She was named one of the “10 Most Creative People” on X (formerly Twitter), and she has been featured in every major U.S. publication: The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, TIME Magazine, and CBS Sunday Morning, the latter of which has celebrated her work twice! And so will you, once you've enjoyed her infectious positive energy. --TIME STAMPS-- 00:00 Intro & Welcome 03:01 Life Motto 11:50 1+1 = 11 16:40 We can't be in a Rush Through Life 19:01 Curiosity 25:28 Break 28:51 Something We All Have in Common 33:45 Visual Thinking 37:12 Sunni's Books 40:40 Deep Self Design 45:14 Zone of Genius 47:48 Human Contribution 01:05:39 The Benefits of Zen 01:08:58 What Do You Wish People Knew?01:11:20 Closing

This podcast is a commentary and does not contain any copyrighted material of the reference source. We strongly recommend accessing/buying the reference source at the same time. ■Reference Source https://www.ted.com/talks/sunni_brown_doodlers_unite ■Post on this topic (You can get FREE learning materials!) https://englist.me/106-academic-words-reference-from-sunni-brown-doodlers-unite-ted-talk/ ■Youtube Video https://youtu.be/ou_2-8B8x54 (All Words) https://youtu.be/SHKee-fu2Dk (Advanced Words) https://youtu.be/1IHP1-_L5p4 (Quick Look) ■Top Page for Further Materials https://englist.me/ ■SNS (Please follow!)

Alison Coward, Rebecca Sutherns and Sunni Brown are each exceptional facilitators in their own right, but that doesn't mean they see things in exactly the same way.They came together for this unique episode, a fireside conversation all about collaboration, and provided some incredible thoughts and reflections.Pull up a chair by the fire and dive into the particulars of what it means to collaborate, how we can create the conditions for creative connection, and why the ‘right' people will fail to collaborate without a deliberate structure.Find out about:Why facilitators have a glaring gap in their CV when it comes to collaborationWhat happens when we leave collaboration to chance… and how to fix the resultsWhy solo and group work are both necessary for effective collaborationHow boundaries, responsibilities, and limits help us become better collaboratorsWhy creating an appropriate context makes such a significant differenceWhat the difference is between collaboration and ‘collective thinking'Why it's wrong to assume that the best outcome from a collaboration should amalgamate every view that's been sharedDon't miss the next episode: subscribe to the show with your favourite podcast player.And download the free 1-page summary, so you can always have the key points of this episode to hand.Links:Watch the video recording of this episode on YouTube.Rebecca Sutherns WebsiteConnect to Alison, Rebecca, and Sunni:Alison on LinkedIn.Rebecca on LinkedIn.Sunni on LinkedIn.Support the show:Make a one-off donation and contribute to the ongoing costs of running the podcast.Support the showCheck out the podcast map to see the overview of all podcast episodes: https://workshops.work/podcast-map

Keynote speaker, published author, zen student, innovator-in-residence, and facilitator — Sunni Brown has a whole village's worth of knowledge, but, somehow, contains it all within just one conscientious and clever human.Sunni's fingerprints can be found on many resources and THINGS you'll be familiar with as a facilitator: Gamestorming, The Doodle Revolution, and Deep Self Design.Safe to say, Sunni is well-placed to discuss the finer details of collaboration — and to highlight some of the ways we might learn about it more deeply from unexpected sources. Explore the art of zen and facilitation, how to get out of our own way, and why a dispassionate facilitator can be more helpful to a group than an overly committed one.Find out about:What Sunni has learned about facilitation since becoming a student of ZenHow our work might change if collaboration was seen as a skill, rather than an outcomeHow to help a group walk the thin line of doable discomfortWhy a saviour complex is a fatal flaw for facilitators — and how to avoid itWhy you can recover from poor workshop design, but not poor trust-buildingHow to take responsibility for our emotional responses, so we can remain in service to the groupWhy facilitators see big changes when they stop taking resistance personallyDon't miss the next episode: subscribe to the show with your favourite podcast player.And download the free 1-page summary, so you can always have the key points of this episode to hand.LinksWatch the video recording of this episode on YouTube.Connect to Sunni:On LinkedInOn InstagramOn TwitterSupport the showCheck out the podcast map to see the overview of all podcast episodes: https://workshops.work/podcast-map

If you are interested in UX and Product Design, you will want to listen to this episode. He explains some of the concepts and practices for this field and he walks us through his journey into UX. Resources mentioned in this episode: Destination UX is now Target UX on LinkedIn https://www.nngroup.com/articles/ten-usability-heuristics/ Double Diamond https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExFeZaMJ6yA Scrum Master https://www.scrumalliance.org/what-is-a-scrum-master Book - Visual Thinking: Empowering People and Organisations through Visual Collaboration Paperback – by Williemien Brand Book - Gamestorming: A Playbook for Innovators, Rulebreakers, and Changemakers 1st Edition - by Dave Gray, Sunni Brown, James Macanufo --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dina-beavers/message

Hear it Here - bit.ly/3FNWZP4https://www.audible.com/pd/B0BL43Y5QD/?source_code=AUDFPWS0223189MWU-BK-ACX0-329401&ref=acx_bty_BK_ACX0_329401_pd_usMechanical ActionsTwo more practices you can implement into your daily routines are mechanical actions: repetitive behaviors you perform with your body that act to help your focus and thinking.First, we come to doodling. Yes, doodling—the small scribbles or masterpieces you create in your notebooks or the tiny stick figures you draw in the margins. Apparently doodling isn't as undesirable as we were once told in school.American author Sunni Brown is known for extolling the power of doodling. According to her research, doodling can help you “anchor a task."If doodling won't work for you, then use the general idea of visual stimuli to help you. When you need to brainstorm ideas, try a pen and paper diagram with as many visual representations as you can come up with.The second mechanical action is ... chewing gum.How can something as easy as chewing gum help you improve your focus?Well, research conducted by the British Journal of Psychology shows that chewing gum increases the oxygen flow to certain parts of your brain that are responsible for your attention span—the prefrontal cortex, which resides over what are generally known as executive functions.Even though it seems hard to believe, gum might just be the answer to your struggling work cycle. It's a cheap and easy method to try to give you the added push to get you sucked back into your work.If you're not a gum fan, you can still use this research to help you. Gum increases attention span because it increases oxygen flow to the brain. You can replicate this by taking short exercise breaks through your day—even just five minutes to tackle some stairs and you will be more alert.That's not to say you'll immediately be able to finish that mountain of work you've been avoiding for far too long, but gum may just be a quick way to help get you back on track and focused once more.#Andrade #ChewGum #CognitiveFitnessThinkSmarter #CognitiveTasks #Concentrate #Doodling #ExecutiveFunctions #Gum #MechanicalAction #MentalDemand #MentalLoad #MentalPerformance #MentalPerformanceEnhancersGum #Neurogrowth #Neuroplasticity #PeakHumanPerformance #PeakMentalPerformanceNeurogrowth #PeterHollins #JackieAndrade #ProcessingVisual #SunniBrown #THEBRAINMECHANIC #RussellNewton #NewtonMG #PeterHollins #TheScienceofSelf #TheBrainMechanic

Do you sometimes find yourself drawing random patterns and designs during meetings and lectures? Some people believe it shows you aren't listening or paying attention. However, there are studies which claim the opposite, and that doodling might actually be beneficial.您有时会发现自己在会议和讲座中随意绘制图案和设计吗？有些人认为这表明你没有倾听或注意。然而，也有研究声称相反，涂鸦实际上可能是有益的。Doodling seems to be ubiquitous. In the past it was seen as a mindless activity and a product of the absentminded. However, in 2016, an article on the Harvard University website discussed the idea that random drawings may assist memory retention and concentration.涂鸦似乎无处不在。在过去，它被视为一种无意识的活动和心不在焉的产物。然而，在 2016 年，哈佛大学网站上的一篇文章讨论了随机绘图可能有助于记忆保持和集中的想法。The article highlights that 26 of 44 American presidents were known to doodle, with Ronald Reagan famous for drawing cowboys. A 2009 study conducted by psychologist Jackie Andrade asked 40 people to listen to a ‘dull and rambling' voice message. Half of the group were asked to doodle and shade in a picture. Those who did were able to recall 29% more of the information contained in the message.文章强调，44 位美国总统中有 26 位以涂鸦而闻名，其中罗纳德·里根 (Ronald Reagan) 以画牛仔而闻名。心理学家杰基安德拉德在 2009 年进行的一项研究要求 40 人收听“沉闷而漫无边际”的语音信息。一半的小组被要求在图片中涂鸦和阴影。那些这样做的人能够多回忆 29% 的信息中包含的信息。Some experts believe that embracing your creative and artistic sides during meetings may engage your mind. Jesse Prinz, a renowned professor of philosophy, actively encourages his students to doodle. He believes that doodling is the ‘attentional sweet spot'.一些专家认为，在会议期间拥抱您的创意和艺术方面可能会吸引您的注意力。著名哲学教授杰西·普林茨（Jesse Prinz）积极鼓励他的学生涂鸦。他认为涂鸦是“注意力的最佳点”。And it might not just be good for your concentration. An artist known as Mr Doodle has made a career out of his scribbles. He sells his art online and also goes to people's homes to decorate their walls.它可能不仅对你的注意力有好处。一位名叫涂鸦先生的艺术家以他的涂鸦为职业。他在网上出售他的艺术品，还去人们家装饰他们的墙壁。It seems that random drawing to aid concentration might be becoming more of a thing. People like Sunni Brown, an advocate for doodling, teach adults how to sketch and scribble in the workplace. So, the next time you see someone haphazardly drawing pictures during a meeting, it might be a sign that they are listening more than you think.似乎有助于集中注意力的随机绘画可能变得越来越重要。像提倡涂鸦的逊尼派布朗这样的人会教成年人如何在工作场所素描和涂鸦。所以，下次你看到有人在会议期间随意画画时，这可能表明他们比你想象的更听话。词汇表beneficial 有益的ubiquitous 普遍存在的mindless 盲目的absentminded 心不在焉的retention 保持，保留concentration 注意力highlight 强调conduct 进行rambling 杂乱无章的recall 回想起embrace 欣然接受engage 使……感兴趣renowned 有声望的sweet spot “甜点”，最佳状态scribble 乱涂乱画decorate 装饰a thing 一个潮流，一种时尚advocate 支持者sketch 素描，速写haphazardly 随意地

The new world requires a different mindset and skillset to navigate the pitfalls of change delivery. In this podcast, Jo Stanford (Health Education England) and Sarbjit Hoskinson (ThermoFisher Scientific) discuss how they have tackled the cultural and behavioural shifts needed to embed change. They explore the capabilities, team dynamics and mindset needed for project and change managers to deliver sustainable outcomes and achieve value in a complex, evolving environment. Further reading David Armstrong, Organization in the Mind: Psychoanalysis, Group Relations and Organizational Consultancy Brené Brown, Daring Greatly Stephen R Covey, The 7 Habits Of Highly Effective People Amy Edmondson, The Fearless Organization Amy Edmonson, Teaming: How Organizations Learn, Innovate, and Compete in the Knowledge Economy (see also: Teaming to Innovate and Extreme Teaming) Amy L Fraher, Group Dynamics for High-Risk Teams Dave Gray, Sunni Brown, James Macanufo, Gamestorming: A Playbook for Innovators, Rulebreakers, and Changemakers Peter Hawkins, Eve Turner, Systemic Coaching: Delivering Value Beyond the Individual Jeffery M Hiatt, Timothy J Creasey, Change Management: The People Side of Change Jeffrey A Miller, The Anxious Organization: Why Smart Companies Do Dumb Things Anita Mountain, Chris Davidson, Working Together: Organizational Transactional Analysis and Business Performance Carole Osterweil, Neuroscience for Project Success: Why people behave as they do Daniel H Pink, Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us Simon Sinek, Start with Why Dr Tammy Watchorn, The Change Ninja Handbook: An interactive adventure for leading change

Dan is a strategist, creative, and skilled facilitator. He is also an educator, global speaker, tech investor, and startup founder. His ethos is embedded in the More Space philosophy, to transform employees to intrapreneurs. So they are better equipped to tackle big problems. So they have the capability to create new solutions, and the confidence to put them in motion. This enables organizations to foster a culture of creative confidence and collaboration. Human-Centered Design (HCD) and Design Thinking is at the core of what we do. Our programs are centered around the More Space framework. The More Space framework incorporates the methodologies of Design Thinking, Futuring, Lean, and Agile. Talks about Innovation, Design Thinking, Human Centered Design. Timestamp 2:37 From designing things, to helping people make sense of things 7:01 Being the Gandalf to a classroom of superheroes 8:26 Using MURAL technology as a facilitator's tool 11:51 Being vulnerable builds trust in the room 16:04 Digging in and dealing with hiccups 19:05 Planning and scheduling for business - a balancing act 20:19 The birth of More Space for Light 25:11 What makes a good workshop 26:40 Self-care and the importance of sleep 31:10 Identifying the patterns and seasons of business, then making plans around it 32:56 Reclaiming a stolen focus 35:28 Motorbiking and being present in the moment 37:10 Understanding the “why” in the change process Social Media LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danlevy1979/ More Space For Light Website: https://morespaceforlight.com.au/expertise/vision-and-strategy/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/morespaceforlight/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/morespaceforlight YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbiT-qp26z40mzOynuvX6SA The Future of Now - Talkshops: https://morespaceforlight.com.au/the-future-of-now/ The Future of Now - Podcast: https://anchor.fm/the-future-of-now Follow Patti Dobrowolski - Instagram https://www.instagram.com/upyourcreativegenius/ Follow Patti Dobrowolski - Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/patti-dobrowolski-532368/ Up Your Creative Genius - https://www.upyourcreativegenius.com/ Transcript Patti Dobrowolski 00:03 Hello Superstars! Welcome to the Up Your Creative Genius Podcast, where you will gain insight and tips to stomp on the accelerator and blast off to transform your business and your life. I'm your host, Patti Dobrowolski. And if this is your first time tuning in, then strap in - because this is serious rocket fuel. Each week, I interview fellow creative geniuses to help you learn how easy it is to Up Your Creative Genius in any part of your life. Patti Dobrowolski 00:39 Hey, everybody, it's Patti Dobrowolski. As you know, and today - oh my gosh, I have like one of my new best friends that is just incredible. And I would just say he's my new Australian best friend, because I have a best friend in Australia, and I have one in various different cities - but this one is somebody brand new, who I really, really love. He's so incredibly creative, you're gonna love him - Dan Levy, and he's with the company More Space For Light, which we're going to talk about what that means - but first, I want to introduce him to you. He's a strategist, a creative and a skilled facilitator - I'm telling you, he really rocks it on MURAL. So he's also an educator, global speaker, a tech investor and startup founder, he's done so many things that to help employees transform, and they call it becoming an INtrapreneur - so you really are living in alignment with your true purpose, as you go out and spread your work and your business into the world. So, his whole thing is around helping you creatively problem solve, and getting you to understand how to do it yourself, and he loves to enable organizations to foster a environment of creative confidence and collaboration. So, he does human centered design, and he's just a design thinker - you should check out his website right away, because it's incredible. And there's a whole bunch of case studies there that I was just like stalking you on Dan, and they're amazing. So please help me welcome Dan Levy - yes! All the way from Adelaide. Aren't you in Adelaide? Brisbane? Dan Levy 02:23 I am in Adelaide, in Adelaide. Patti Dobrowolski 02:24 Oh, Adelaide, okay. Yup. Dan Levy 02:25 Patti, you're gonna mess with everyone because I've got an English accent. So people go: "Oh. That's not very nice." Patti Dobrowolski 02:30 That's right. It's so true. Oh, well, but whatever. Here you are. You're here. Thank you for being on the show. Dan Levy 02:36 Thank you for having me. Patti Dobrowolski 02:37 Well, now tell us, Dan, now that I gave you that big drumroll of an introduction - and just want to say that it's his morning, it's my night, so we're on opposite ends - and so he's just waking up and I'm just trying to stay up, as you know. But here's- the conversation is going to keep all of you awake as soon as we get into it. Dan, you have to tell us how did you come to be a creative- and game-stormer and design thinker? How did you ever get to this place? Dan Levy 03:09 I would be lying if I said it was intentional. I started in design. And what I found was, as I got further and further away from the tools, I found that people either go down one or two paths, they either go, well, one of three paths: they either go into leadership in regards to they want to manage a group; they either go into development, meaning they want to own the experience; or they go into a more user-centric role, which means they want to be able to help people understand what the hell everybody else is doing. So that they can make sense and- Patti Dobrowolski 03:48 - And be fantastic. Yeah. Dan Levy 03:50 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically, I went down that more user-centric role. And what I found was the user-centric role usually involved me helping people to understand or attach rationale or linked things back to business objectives. And slowly what happened was I developed this design thinkers mindset and toolkit. And before I knew what was happening, I found out it was a thing. So then I had to kind of reverse engineer my thinking to fit into frameworks that allowed me to have conversations- Patti Dobrowolski 03:54 -that already exist. Dan Levy 04:07 Yeah. Patti Dobrowolski 04:08 - already existed, right. I love that. You had your own thing. And then you had to figure out: Okay, well, this is what they're calling that thing that I'm doing - and so I'm going to make sure that I understand that, so I can make sure that this thing that I have, I can do it in my own way. Dan Levy 04:42 I knew none of the words. Patti Dobrowolski 04:44 Yeah. Dan Levy 04:44 I found out about this program by Luma: L-U-M-A, Luma. And I got friendly with somebody from Luma and I was explaining to them my world - and they kept telling me: oh, that sounds like this tool, that sounds like that tool. So I invested, became a Luma facilitator to learn more about what they were doing - just basically to formalize, and make it less punk rock, bit more like there's this struc- Patti Dobrowolski 05:07 - legitimize yourself, you were trying to make yourself legit. Dan Levy 05:12 -Legit. Patti Dobrowolski 05:12 That's what your T-shirt should say. Now, were you a designer when you were a kid? How did you get into design? What did you do? Dan Levy 05:19 I was so into comics. And it's kind of a relevant conversation, this - because my boys had just started to get into comics. So all I've got left from when I was a kiddie is a big box of Marvel Comics, and I pulled them out the other day for the kids - and I just rediscovered my childhood at the moment. And the kids again, and they're drawing. So when I first got into art, it was all about creating stories, making comics, and getting into art, and then media with film. And then slowly, I figured out I like computers, and then it was interactive and riding the wave of web design and not app, but more CD-ROM designs. So that was really my path in. Patti Dobrowolski 06:02 So CD-ROMs, meaning you did the covers. Dan Levy 06:05 Meaning that - for example, Ford or Jaguar would create an interactive CD-ROM, which is basically, these days, like a website on a CD-ROM. Patti Dobrowolski 06:16 Yes, whoa. Dan Levy 06:17 And I'd be part of our creative team that would do the UI and the buttons. So do you remember something called Director and Lingo? Patti Dobrowolski 06:25 Of course, of course. (laughs) Dan Levy 06:26 Whoa, yes. I was working with Director and Lingo. Patti Dobrowolski 06:31 So oh, my gosh - so that's how you started being really a cartoon freak, and a comic book person, and then that evolved into doing this kind of design. So how do you pull that into the work you're doing now? Like, if you were the superhero in that comic, back in the past - well, how are you the superhero in the room today? What would your superhero do? Or what do you do as a design thinker in a session that makes you a superhero? Dan Levy 07:01 Okay, so I always say that everybody else is the superhero. I'm just the Gandalf. I'm the person that stands in the corner - or the Doctor Strange that kind of sets the constructs and creates the worlds for people to operate and to facilitate conversations. There's a chap called Daniel Stillman, who really changed my mind in regards to what it is to be a facilitator and actually thinking about designing conversations - not just about asking questions, but actually constructing that conversation. And since the pandemic - and we switched to a remote way of working - what I found is that because we're using collaboration tools like MURAL to facilitate conversations, that I am legitimately a conversation designer now, because ultimately, creating the conversation in the backdrop of a board to- Patti Dobrowolski 07:58 Well, and you're creating the - almost like the tapestry on which people can form and connect, and- Well, tell people what MURAL is about: you know, say a little bit about it, how you use it in design thinking, because not everybody uses it. And so how do you use it, and what's the advantage of using it compared to just live facilitation where you're there, and you might have Post-It notes and a room full of crazy people at tables. Dan Levy 08:26 The best thing about MURAL for me is that you don't have to rewrite hundreds of Post-It notes at the end of a workshop. (laughs) Its got this wonderful little function that says "Copy as Text", and you pop it straight into a spreadsheet. I know, because I felt the pain of that yesterday. But besides that, it's - well, you know, Patti, from your work that we work synchronously and asynchronously. And through the way we work now, we are able to actually conduct conversations without people needing to be there, we can keep momentum in the conversation. And MURAL is a tool that allows us to work asynchronously, as well as synchronously so we can keep decision making, collaboration, all these types of things, we can keep that in motion. And that's a great enabler, especially for people like ourselves that work with organizations across the globe and need to basically bind teams together to be able to collaborate and communicate and co-create. Patti Dobrowolski 09:30 Yeah, do you think that people are more willing, when they're using a collaboration tool like that online, they're more willing to be part of the game? Dan Levy 09:40 Mmm. Now, this is interesting. So we've run a couple of workshops over the last few weeks. And we found a bit of both. So somebody who don't want to be involved, it doesn't matter, they just like to- I call them lurkers, they lurk in the background, they don't have their camera - and other people want to get involved, something I'm really mindful of. And I don't know if you find this as well, when I introduced tools into a remote workshop, I'll try to reduce the amount of tools because regardless of how easy it is - and also bear in mind, we're super biased because we use these tools, yeah, almost fluidly for our work - they get a sense of overwhelm. Now I'll give you an example. Say, for instance, we've got a present- somebody wants to do a presentation. And we're then doing some interactive stuff, I'll put it all on the interactive board, and that way, we keep them in one spot. So even though it might be a little bit difficult for people creating a spreadsheet, their slideshow, and they have to take the pain of that - what that means is the user experience, they get a better experience. So I'm all about - how do we take the pain away from participants and own that pain to make the experience so much easier. And again, a tool like MURAL allows you to do a lot of, like, consolidating all the different other things that you could potentially use, or integrate in with a video conferencing tool - just makes it so much simpler. Patti Dobrowolski 11:16 Yeah. Now, for you - I don't know, you know, I have my sweet spot where I really know when I'm in the experience at the highest level I possibly can - you know, I'm fully engaged, and I'm really paying attention - what for you are the things that create the environment in which that happens for you. And it doesn't necessarily have to be online - it could be in person - but I'm curious, what creates the environment where you have, I would say, More Space for Light in what you're doing in the room with people. Dan Levy 11:51 This is hard. Because again, sometimes this is a form of flow, which I feel can be quite rare to get to. And I'm always nervous at the beginning of a workshop, so I'll try and get people out of their comfort zone - so they can meet me where I'm at. Patti Dobrowolski 12:09 Yeah. Do you ever tell them that you're uncomfortable with the beginning? Dan Levy 12:13 All the time. Patti Dobrowolski 12:14 Okay. And that does that normalize it, you think, for people in the room? Dan Levy 12:18 Maybe, but it normalizes it for me. Because, see, when I conduct a workshop - I'm sorry, if I'm not directly answering your question- Patti Dobrowolski 12:25 It's okay, we'll go back to it. Dan Levy 12:27 When I'm in a workshop, I feel like I like the environment to be like, we're in the pub, and we're sitting around a table, and we're having a conversation, and we're capturing it, and everyone feels empowered to be able to talk. Some people don't like that, because they are used to more of a cooperative meeting structure where they're told what to do. Patti Dobrowolski 12:49 -Formalized. Yes. Dan Levy 12:50 -Hierarchies, and people feel like if they talk out of turn, they might be seen as stupid. Whereas in a - using air quotes now - but in a more pub-type friendly environment. people say stupid things all the time. And either people will play on it or call them out, and it'll be a bit of a joke, and it's not such a risk. Because the stakes aren't high. Patti Dobrowolski 13:13 Yeah, it's not high stakes. Yeah, not high stakes. Dan Levy 13:16 So how can I reduce the stakes, reduce the risk, build that trusted environment where people want to take risks; and I feel as a facilitator, I have to demonstrate that vulnerability, so people - and maybe I don't need to, because maybe that compromises my message by saying: right, I'm gonna get everybody to take a deep breath now, and I need it as well. I don't know if that compromises, but at the same time, I'm being quite selfish in my space - because for me to deliver the best possible experience, I need to get everybody into my zone; I can't be in their zone, because if I'm in their zone, you know, I inherit all of their culture, all of their permissions, all of their weight- Patti Dobrowolski 14:05 Yes, yes...and so you're suddenly in their norms, instead of your norms. I would say imposing your norms on the space itself, and inviting them to step into it, is what it sounds like. And what's true is whether you're in person or online, there's always people who don't want to step in the space, but you don't know what's going on with them. So my thing is, like, leave them - you know, don't try to torture them. Although I will torture them a little - do you do that a little to try to get them to turn on their camera and stuff like that? Dan Levy 14:41 I'm from, say where I grew up, people are very vocal, and- Patti Dobrowolski 14:47 Where did you grow up? Dan Levy 14:48 I grew up in northeast London? So I'm from- Patti Dobrowolski 14:50 Northeast London, Yes. Dan Levy 14:51 Yeah. So it's a lot louder. I grew up from a very loud family, and I have to be really attuned to other people to know where their boundaries are. And so I need to test that to pick up their frequency. At the same time, sometimes when you're trying to bring the masses along, you can't bring the 20 or the 10% outliers so - you have an objective, you bring everybody along, and sometimes people might not collaborate as much, but you have to be comfortable with that. As long as it's different people's- Patti Dobrowolski 15:26 Yeah, otherwise you spend time, don't you think? You'd spend time like trying to get them to come, trying to get them - it's exhausting for everybody in the room, but especially it's exhausting for you, when you know that your agenda is already set. I love this, because I don't think that I have - I had Sunni Brown, you know, on, but we really didn't talk about facilitation that much. But talking to you, it's so great to hear from skilled facilitators, some of the challenges that you deal with, and how you manage them. Like, what's the worst thing that ever happened to you in the session that you were running, that you had to handle? Dan Levy 16:04 Okay, so I've come to learn that sometimes if you run as many workshops as us, you're not going to get 100% - like, you know, you watch a soccer match or a football match, and there'll be a player that won't always have a great game. That's just what happens when you run so many. And that's not always your fault. We ran a workshop the other week, and it was military precision. And this, I didn't feel comfortable, military position - because it takes away some of my spontaneity. Patti Dobrowolski 16:36 Yeah. Dan Levy 16:37 And I like to feel the energy and, and also, but - I needed to do that so that the client felt comfortable, because it was a really, really big client. Like, I can't say, "hey-" And they had my script, they had the board, we did rehearsals. Anyway, we've got into the workshop: within five minutes, the technology wouldn't work for the client, the client decided to change to another technology, which basically when we couldn't do breakout rooms, none of the presentations worked, none of the videos worked. There was too many people, they then started switching off their videos. And I basically put in the chat, and now we improvise. And I knew my script like that - I'd spent a long time on the script practice, I just closed the windows, I was like, right. I'm gonna have to just basically- Patti Dobrowolski 17:30 -and now the actor in me comes out. Doo doo doo! Superhero cape on, right. Dan Levy 17:36 Yeah. And it was just like, dig in, and do it - dig in and do it, and that. And we got through it - we got to the outcome we needed to. It wasn't the most comfortable workshop, because we had to constantly adapt. But we, but from an outcomes perspective, and getting everyone through and having everything needed to go as planned, it was perfect in that respect. Patti Dobrowolski 18:00 Yeah, that's fantastic. Well, you know, I love that. You know, the worst workshop I ever ran was one of the first change workshops where I didn't realize that people were getting fired - when they got called out of the room, they were getting fired, and they weren't coming back in the room - but nobody told me that. So I just thought I was really bad, so I just kept overacting - you know what I mean, like, I got louder and louder, and bigger and bigger. And what was true is everybody in the room was so sad, but I had no idea of knowing because it was my first engagement as a facilitator, so I just didn't know. And after that, I was like, you always have to be willing, and able to read the room first and then pivot, you know - read and pivot, and see and ask, like, what's going on? Why are you all, you know? So, I love that. Now, Dan, you run a lot of sessions with a lot of companies, how do you manage that kind of a schedule? And you got kids and a wife - I mean, how do you do all that balancing? Dan Levy 19:05 I'm getting better. I'm getting better. I'm starting to schedule and plan and, and be quite strict in regards to you know, like, only booking two gigs a month - maybe three at most? But yeah, and that seems to be working, but it isn't easy - I'll be honest, it isn't easy. It's the toughest thing, running a business - there's so many levels: see, we've just spoken about facilitation, and already there's like a multitude of levels there in regards to planning strategy, actual delivery and then all the human parts and soft skills and humility you need to have with that. And then after that- before and after and having to prepare and deliver the outcomes. And then on top of that, how do you market that and then how do you think, what's the flywheel to get more work and then you've got to think about all the accounts, oh gosh, run a business- Patti Dobrowolski 20:01 oh, yeah, it's a lot; then tracking them, It's really - it's a lot, and you know, you need like, a lot of people - it takes an army, really; it takes a village, they would say - you know, it really does, though. And so, tell me how you started More Room for Light. How did you start it? Dan Levy 20:19 How did we start- Patti Dobrowolski 20:20 -Light, yeah. Is it Space for Light? Why did I suddenly thought it was “room”? Space. Room - I think room and space, same thing, right in the US. Room is in your world, space? Dan Levy 20:33 Well, we get emails from lighting and room companies asking us- Patti Dobrowolski 20:36 I bet you do. (laughs) "Dear Dan, do you need help with the equipment? Because we have a whole lighting kit that you're going to love." Dan Levy 20:47 Absolutely. Yeah, if you need a discount, come to me, I can get trade prices. (laughs) More Space was started almost seven years ago - it was six and a half years ago, when my second was born. I was hitting a point in my career, where I wasn't happy. I was the strategist that was rolled out when a company needed a website or whatever it was, and I felt like where I'd been in my career, I'd regressed. I'd be working on some amazing products with amazing companies in incredible teams, whether it would be in London and Sydney. And I found myself in the marketing world, where the value, I felt, was more about the idea or the execution, but not about what difference does this make to the business from a more sustainable aspect. Patti Dobrowolski 21:46 Yeah, how's it gonna help them? How's it going to help them, yeah, right? Dan Levy 21:50 -And also like what, are we doing things that are risky in the respect of- are we as a brand company, doing things that will help us grow and move to the next horizon? So what we were doing was very kind of superficial and transactional: give me a microsite. So coming from IPTV products, and all this sort of stuff, I just didn't see a future doing what I was doing. Patti Dobrowolski 22:17 Yeah. Dan Levy 22:18 And I didn't see opportunities in the space to allow me to go out and explore and help organizations figure this out. Because initially, I just wanted to help companies do cool stuff. And I know that's kind of massive hypocritical from what I've just said, but I mean cool stuff in the regards of how do we leverage new technologies? How do we improve the connection with people whose lives we impact and whose lives we're trying to improve? How can we think about what we're doing a little bit differently from their perspective? As opposed to how much- Patti Dobrowolski 22:53 Let's create something cool, yeah, it doesn't create something cool, and then push it out. Dan Levy 22:58 Yeah, basically. And one night - I've always had a really high work ethic - and one night I was putting my eldest now to bed, and he said: Mommy, I want, I want more space for light. And I said to my wife, I said: what does that mean? That sounds - that's really interesting. She said, Well, he's not ready to go to bed yet, he wants- "more space for light", for him, meant: more time to read, more time to play, more time to kick a ball, play with his figures and all that. And I was, I want that. I want that, and I can give that. And it almost rejuvenized me and revitalized me - and I had a mission, I had a purpose, like I had something I could get behind, and that has really become a mantra for me, for us, and for the people we work with. Whether that's the future of now, whether that's our engagements, whether that's the friendships we've developed, like within the community or partnerships with - it's how do we make More Space for Light for each other, for mutual value, for our clients, for our customers, and it's just changed the dynamic of the conversation. Patti Dobrowolski 24:10 It's such a holistic view. I mean, I think this is what I love about it - is that you're looking at the bigger picture. I mean, I can't tell you how many meetings I've sat in, for big companies where they said, you know, and one of the things on the vision is gotta be work life balance. And what you're talking about, really, is bigger than that - it's not just work-life balance, it's that you understand that work and life are integrated. They're part of an integrated whole that we are graciously allowed to participate in. And that when you make more room for play, for curiosity, like you are a prolific reader, that's what I know to be true about you. Like I said, and then did you read that; and you go: oh, yeah, and this - have you read this and this and this. I ordered that already, right? So, but that, to me, just tells me about how much time it requires for you to process and to be creative, you know? Dan Levy 25:11 Oh, yeah. I think, and this is something I love - working with people that are hungry and curious. And I don't mean hungry in the respect of ambitious, and like - ambition is good, but when it's self serving and leaves everyone behind the curious in regards to want knowledge, want to learn, are prepared to be wrong, and are prepared to be challenged in their thoughts. And I think this is a really- this is when you know you're in a great workshop, when people feel comfortable to say things that might not be correct, but just want to get them out into the open, and let other people play with them and just understand from different perspectives. And that's when you've got a really interesting group of people because they've - sorry for the pun, but they've made the space for light: they've bought something out, and they're exploring - and that's really interesting, because they will achieve what they want to do, because they have that trust, and they have that capability of, you know, creative capability within all of them to be able to, you know, just have that durability to play with something so awesome. Patti Dobrowolski 26:23 That's fantastic. Now, tell me a little bit, tell us a little bit about your day - how does your day go? And how do you find a way to make more space for light in that day, like, what do you do? What time do you get up, and what do you do? I want to know what your rituals are, so we get to know you a little bit better. Dan Levy 26:43 Okay, so I'm going through a sleep phase at the moment. And by sleep phase, what I mean is I'm taking it a lot more seriously - I've got a mentor, or coach who's just basically impressing upon me how important sleep is, and your self health, your self worth. That's the wrong term, but self- , just looking after yourself and- Patti Dobrowolski 27:03 -Care, self-care, yeah. Dan Levy 27:04 Self care, thank you - and how the impact of sleep improves your focus and productivity during the day. And I've been playing with that and having early nights generally. Generally, I'm up just before 6am. I've got a panned-out gym, I call it - it's set up in the back in the open garage, I've got my weights, I do a little work, work out. I've been trying to meditate. I've a friend, he's given me this ADHD meditation tape for people like me that can't keep still. So it'll be 10 minutes, I'll do that - I'll most probably get disturbed by one of my little ones coming outside to wee on the lemon tree. (laughs) And then - and then pretty much, I've been working a lot from home lately, which has been - I'll be honest, a bit of a drag - because I'm kind of, I feel quite isolated. So I've got an office in town, and I'll go in and connect with people; but I've - because we're going away camping at the weekend, I've been trying to avoid as many people as possible that could potentially give me COVID, because I don't want to cancel this camping trip with my little one- Patti Dobrowolski 28:11 Yes, of course. (laughs) Oh my gosh. Dan Levy 28:12 -I've become this hermit, which is really awful. But after that, I'll be out and about. And then I've been a bit slack, Patti, because I started the year with 90 Day goals, and then month focus, and then dailies, normal that, I had that - and as the team's changed, and over, you know, different circumstances, we've had to deal with the pandemic, etc., I've slowly been more into the fill a bit - I'm in the weeds at the moment, but I'll have a set schedule, and I've been trying to clock off at around five-ish, because the kids roll in at three. So even if I'm on a call, they become part of the call. Patti Dobrowolski 28:49 Yes, I'm sure. Dan Levy 28:50 And then dinner, and then maybe, I've been trying not to work. Like maybe I'll do a few hours just to catch up and try and be in bed as early as I can, or chill out with my wife as early as I can. But that's generally the day is, for now I'll just be online working, grinding through my list of tasks. Patti Dobrowolski 29:12 There it is. That's right. I like that. I think that the idea of sleep is really - I'm glad that it's at the forefront. It's sometimes hard to grab for me. You know, I'll wake up now, and I'll look at my sleep clock app and it'll say: five hours, and I'd be like, oh no, that's not enough, you know - two more and then too late, I'm already awake thinking about coffee. Because there's coffee waiting for me out in the other room and once I start thinking about it, then I've gotta go - I'm a true addict. But I love too that you're talking about this idea of setting goals but then you have to let them go - you have to at some point let go of what your structure is. I think we get very obsessed with - you know, I guess the first thing I said, when we got on the call, before we started the podcast, I was saying, you don't have heavy- I read this or somebody sent me something about turning your 12 month year into a 12 week year, so that you get things done in a shorter sprint - you know, do it in a sprint. And the reason that I'm doing that in a sprint is because like you, I set those goals, and then I do those things. And then I know, I just know that right around now - because this is April, right, we're in the second quarter, right? And in the second quarter in the US - that's the way they divide it up, unless you work for Microsoft, then the first of the year starts in June, I don't know how they figured that out, but - so second quarter, then you have to reboot somehow. So either I'll draw a brand new map, or I will then just start to experiment with what is going to trick me into wanting to have fun again, to do something - what do I need to learn, that's gonna keep me inspired. So you know, that gym thing, it helps - it gets your dopamine going, you know - your serotonin is up, and then you're ready to go back in and do it, right? Dan Levy 31:10 Yeah. Also, I think there has to be a level of confidence and maturity in your business and the patterns and seasons of business. Because for a long time, I panic around Christmas, because nobody wants a workshop or talk to us around from December to January - and now I've reframed that. So initially, like I panicked, and then I'd listen to people like Gary Vaynerchuk, who was like, "You should working 48 hours a day", even though it's not possible to- hustling, get advantage of everyone to come out of January kicking arse, doing 3D and 4D and Tik Tok and NFTs and all that rubbish. And I was like, actually, this - admittedly, this is the first time I've done it this year - this is time for me to clean house and figure out a bit about me, about who I am, what More Space is, what do we want to achieve this year? Patti Dobrowolski 32:09 Yes. Dan Levy 32:10 And hopefully - and it sounds terrible - hopefully, we don't get any work till March. And so I can do that as soon as possible- Patti Dobrowolski 32:17 Exactly. This is what I said, you know, there's, there's something in my Instagram channel right now, where I say to the camera - I'm so happy when a client cancels the call because then I can go bike riding, and then I speed off on my bike, you know - because this is what's true, is that we don't always want to be on 24/7. And, and we're not meant to be on 24/7. And we need that time to create more space for light, and to understand ourselves and see what we're going to do next. What are we going to grow? And what do we want to read or play or, I don't know, go to the beach, something. Right? Dan Levy 32:56 So I'm reading a book. This is a recommendation by my coach. It's called Stolen Focus. And he said to me - Dan, your work issue's focus: you've got to do less, but more of like, just focus on what works for you. And I've been going through my own personal and professional transformation in regards to just honing in on focus and being quite comfortable to let certain things fall off and not do them. But just - and I'm figuring out that journey, that isn't like an automatic "Tomorrow, I'll get this" - like, this is a journey of self discovery for me. But this book's just been remarkable. So there were some principles that I'd already put in place. Like, I don't have my mobile phone in my bedroom. Like, I don't sleep with my phone, I stick with my Fitbit, just so I don't wake my wife up or we have our little ones sleeping with us. And that's the most discreet way I can wake anyone up. I'll try not to look at my phone when I wake up first thing, I want to see a human being if I can. Or if I'm doing a workout, I'll just put on my music and not look at my emails. And I'm trying to set boundaries. Yeah, I just saw this study on Instagram. It was just photos of people - just an observation of how people use their mobiles, and you see them in social settings, and I'm trying to reduce the amount of time I look at social media. Like, I'm trying to make the phone not rule me. Patti Dobrowolski 34:35 Yeah, I think it's - in this time. It's really difficult. It's like one of the biggest challenges that we have and not just us, but I think the younger generation is all about it. And so to make space for the phone to be away, is like- I can't have the phone in my room if I'm writing, because I will just hear the phone talking to me: it's saying "There's emails in here, do you want to see what the weather's gonna be like today" or - you know, everything that you could find in there will call you and distract you. So I love that. And I think that these are some rituals that I hope that our kids are really going to take to heart. And they're really going to start to put them in place and what kind of rituals, other rituals, do you have that really helped you stay in tune with yourself or in balance? Dan Levy 35:28 The motorbiking, trying to get - I know we both share a passion of going out on our bikes. That's been a big thing for me, cause we're constantly dwelling on the past or anxious about the future; that being present in this mind space right now in this second and maximizing the potential of this minute - often, we take that for granted. And I suppose especially like, when you've got this thing buzzing out - your phone, you got access to everything and nothing at the same time, but how can you see- Patti Dobrowolski 36:02 Everything and nothing at the same time, you said: you have access to everything and nothing at the same time. Oh, that is well put. Mic drop. Dan Levy 36:16 If you- just being present, and that's the motorbike for me - where you have to be present, otherwise you'll fall off the thing or someone will bump into you - that's been really good. And cycling as well. And just trying to just make the most of things, you know. Patti Dobrowolski 36:32 Yeah, that's fantastic. I love that, I love it. All right, now. So you know, you're a big change maker - you help people make change in their company, so - if you have any tips about people that are listening, and they want to make a change, some kind of change in what they're doing, what would you tell them? Because you pivoted from working for somebody else doing those things, to starting your own company - and you've done that multiple times. And every time you're in a room with people, you're asking them to pivot. So what would you suggest, if somebody who is - like you thinking, I don't know if I can do this anymore, I want to do something else - what would you say? Dan Levy 37:10 I would be sort - I don't want to be responsible for people making some dramatic change, but I - if you're in an environment, where you want to make change, for example, in an organization - I feel like you have to listen to understand a propensity for an organization willing to change, whether that would be one person, whether that would be a team - and start to figure out who the people are, that you can, that are champions and gatekeepers. Also, laddering back, why? Why is there a need to change? What is your why? What are the factors behind you making that change? And once you start to understand your why, you'll know whether it's kind of more of an environmental thing, more of a lifestyle thing or a whole chain, because - don't be too rash; often people seek a solution that's very binary, for example: "this isn't working, therefore I need to do that". There might be a third option or a compromise or, or an intermediary step that allows them to get an understanding of what they want. Because often people are so tied to a solution, they forget about the values all the while, the drivers and the signals that are pushing them to need to feel like they need to make the change. So I think, really figure out your why, and then start to play from there. Patti Dobrowolski 38:39 Yeah, I think too this, the other thing you're saying in here, that you aren't directly speaking to is that - or maybe I'm just hearing this in between space, which is - there is a part of us that feels like when things aren't working, it's better to go there than to stay here and work it out. Because sometimes in the working out, you work it through, and so then you don't have to go and repeat the pattern in whatever you end up doing after this because: you will repeat the pattern. And so if you can figure that out, and then you can leave gracefully and know that that was the right thing to do and that it's the right time - I think that is so essential. So I love that you're talking about finding stakeholders that are also willing to change and who are the gatekeepers, so you can win them over - so that you can create the kinds of changes that you want to see in your environment. I love that. I love you, Dan, you're so incredible. I loved having this conversation with you. I'm going to bring you back so we can talk more about what's happening with you. And I'm sure that the camping trip is going to be amazing, because you will be COVID-free. We're setting that intent. And so is there any- Dan Levy 39:59 Ah, I'm safe now. I've got one more day and I'm safe- (laughs) Patti Dobrowolski 40:00 That's right. (laughs) That's right, may we all stay COVID-free, people - let's just put that out there that we spread that out, so we can get back to - not get back to, but get forward to the life that we dream about, right? We dream about. Well, I dream about being in the same place in the universe with you Dan, so that we can do some kind of work together, so I look forward to that opportunity. And thank you so much for coming here and spending time with me in your morning - my evening, so we could get to know you a little better. Dan Levy 40:22 Thank you for having me, Patti - it's amazing. It's just so amazing to just be part of your orbit and be part of the multiverse that you connect to. So - you got another friend in Australia. Patti Dobrowolski 40:49 Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right. So now, everybody, you know the drill - if you liked what you heard, please share it with your friends. And also, please follow Dan Levy with More Space for Light. You can find him on LinkedIn, you can find More Space for Light on the internet, and also in the show notes - we'll find other ways that you can connect with him, because he's incredible. And if your company is looking for an amazing facilitated experience, he's your man - I'm just saying. Okay, all right, everybody. Until next time, Up Your Creative Genius. Take good care, woo! Patti Dobrowolski 41:28 Thanks so much for listening today. Be sure to DM me on Instagram your feedback or takeaways from today's episode on Up Your Creative Genius - then join me next week for more rocket fuel! Remember, you are the superstar of your universe and the world needs what you have to bring - so get busy! Get out, and Up Your Creative Genius! And no matter where you are in the universe, here's some big love from yours truly, Patti Dobrowolski, and the Up Your Creative Genius Podcast. That's a wrap!

La crise du Covid 19 a montré la nécessité, pour les entreprises comme les structures de formation, d'envisager le développement des compétences à distance. Ce travail s'est notamment appuyé sur des plateformes d'apprentissage en ligne (ou Learning Management System). En France, ce sont plus de 90% des entreprises françaises qui disposent aujourd'hui d'une plateforme d'apprentissage. Le marché mondial va évoluer de 15,8 milliards de dollars en 2021 à 37,9 milliards de dollars d'ici 2026.  En d'autres termes, ces plateformes d'apprentissage sont partout.  Dans cet épisode, nous nous posons alors la question : peut-on former (en ligne) sans… Plateforme d'apprentissage ?  À travers celle-ci, nous explorons le rôle des plateformes, nos pires expériences avec celles-ci et nos tentatives pour nous en passer.Recommandations : –  Nicolas · la vidéo de Sylvqin "CPF : Arnaques, harcèlement téléphonique… et zone grise - Enquête " – Lionel : le salon Learning Technologies France qui se déroulera à Paris du 18 au  19 mai – Jérôme : le livre “Gamestorming : Jouer pour innover ” de James Macanufo,, Sunni Brown et Dave GrayHébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

In this digital age, what are the tools that faculty and students use in their college courses? Join STLI Student Partners as they delved into note taking and the digital world. Special appearances by Ran Yang of W&M and Sunni Brown, author and doodler. STLI's Diana Theisinger and Yujie Huang offer commentary.

Could doodling be the key to unlocking your creativity? Despite the stigma, we've all made an absent minded squiggle before, and with good reason says Sunni Brown, author of “The Doodle Revolution”. Professional illustrator Mattias Adolfsson and mind mapper Saher Kahn weigh in on how this innate creative impulse, and all the benefits it brings, prove why everyone - yes, even you - should consider themselves creative.  To find blogs and images related to each episode, go to domestika.org/podcasts. And to find online courses on hundreds of creative topics, go to domestika.org.

Austin Govella is an experience design director at Avanade Digital Studio and author of Collaborative Product Design. Listen to learn about: Product design Collaboration in design work Some challenges that can arise when collaborating Connecting design to the larger world Designing within and for systems Workshop/training design Collaboration facilitation Our Guest  As an experienced facilitator with over 15 years of experience, Austin leverages a collaborative design approach with clients and specializes in facilitating design thinking, product management, design sprints, and Agile methodologies. As an experience director, he delivers design thinking and workshop facilitation training for Avanade's Experience Design practice. Austin is a LUMA Institute Certified Facilitator of Human-Centered Design.   Show Highlights [01:43] How taking a break from university led Austin into the field of design. [04:30] Austin's work at Avanade, and platform-based innovation. [06:24] Collaboration has been a key aspect of Austin's work methodology since his university days. [08:11] How collaboration can help the solo designer and small design teams at a company. [09:39] Collaboration magnifies the impact of design. [10:43] Design is more than just making pretty visuals. [11:43] Design must be created within the context of the business and the “world” in which it will live. [12:45] Austin's thoughts on modern design education. [13:09] Giving your design a “good life.” [15:15] Why designing that “good life” requires collaboration. [16:03] Greenfield innovation design vs. wicked problems design. [18:26] Austin talks about some of the challenges he's dealt with when leading workshops. [20:05] How people learning design thinking can be too focused on the mechanics and not on the outcome. [21:05] When designing a workshop, focus on the outcome. [23:46] Viewing the workshop as a collaboration. [26:59] The importance of inclusion and trust when collaborating. [27:58] Being willing to go in unexpected directions, and the magic that can happen when you do. [29:33] Austin gives advice for new facilitators. [31:56] Ways to help and support the person who doesn't want to participate in a workshop activity. [33:40] Frame, facilitate, finish. [34:44] Other personalities you can encounter while facilitating workshops. [38:06] You can't auto-pilot a workshop. [38:54] The importance of the small breakout groups in workshops, especially those that are virtual. [39:57] Offering participants the chance to think about the topic before the actual workshop or meeting. [42:47] Trusting the process and the participants as a facilitator, even when it's challenging. [46:23] Austin talks about his book, Collaborative Product Design. [49:19] Work the Room, the book Austin is currently working on, dives into how to manage the people and personalities you're collaborating and facilitating with. [53:10] Books and other resources Austin recommends.   Links Austin on Twitter Austin on Medium Austin on LinkedIn Austin's website and blog Avanade   Book Recommendations: Collaborative Product Design by Austin Govella The Product & Experience Design Guide Work the Room, The Book, by Austin Govella The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters, by Priya Parker Gamestorming: A Playbook for Innovators, Rulebreakers, and Changemakers, by Dave Gray, Sunni Brown, and James Macanufo Moments of Impact: How to Design Strategic Conversations That Accelerate Change, by Chris Ertel and Lisa Kay Solomon Rapid Problem Solving With Post-it Notes, by David Straker   Other Design Thinking 101 Episodes You Might Like Designing Facilitation: a system for creating and leading exceptional events // ALD 006 — DT101 E73   Designing Your Team + Teams in Design Education + Coaching Design Teams with Mary Sherwin and David Sherwin — DT101 E49   Teams, Sprints, Prototyping, and Better Meetings with Douglas Ferguson — DT101 E59

Austin Govella is an experience design director at Avanade Digital Studio and author of Collaborative Product Design. Listen to learn about: Product design Collaboration in design work Some challenges that can arise when collaborating Connecting design to the larger world Designing within and for systems Workshop/training design Collaboration facilitation Our Guest  As an experienced facilitator with over 15 years of experience, Austin leverages a collaborative design approach with clients and specializes in facilitating design thinking, product management, design sprints, and Agile methodologies. As an experience director, he delivers design thinking and workshop facilitation training for Avanade's Experience Design practice. Austin is a LUMA Institute Certified Facilitator of Human-Centered Design.   Show Highlights [01:43] How taking a break from university led Austin into the field of design. [04:30] Austin's work at Avanade, and platform-based innovation. [06:24] Collaboration has been a key aspect of Austin's work methodology since his university days. [08:11] How collaboration can help the solo designer and small design teams at a company. [09:39] Collaboration magnifies the impact of design. [10:43] Design is more than just making pretty visuals. [11:43] Design must be created within the context of the business and the “world” in which it will live. [12:45] Austin's thoughts on modern design education. [13:09] Giving your design a “good life.” [15:15] Why designing that “good life” requires collaboration. [16:03] Greenfield innovation design vs. wicked problems design. [18:26] Austin talks about some of the challenges he's dealt with when leading workshops. [20:05] How people learning design thinking can be too focused on the mechanics and not on the outcome. [21:05] When designing a workshop, focus on the outcome. [23:46] Viewing the workshop as a collaboration. [26:59] The importance of inclusion and trust when collaborating. [27:58] Being willing to go in unexpected directions, and the magic that can happen when you do. [29:33] Austin gives advice for new facilitators. [31:56] Ways to help and support the person who doesn't want to participate in a workshop activity. [33:40] Frame, facilitate, finish. [34:44] Other personalities you can encounter while facilitating workshops. [38:06] You can't auto-pilot a workshop. [38:54] The importance of the small breakout groups in workshops, especially those that are virtual. [39:57] Offering participants the chance to think about the topic before the actual workshop or meeting. [42:47] Trusting the process and the participants as a facilitator, even when it's challenging. [46:23] Austin talks about his book, Collaborative Product Design. [49:19] Work the Room, the book Austin is currently working on, dives into how to manage the people and personalities you're collaborating and facilitating with. [53:10] Books and other resources Austin recommends.   Links Austin on Twitter Austin on Medium Austin on LinkedIn Austin's website and blog Avanade   Book Recommendations: Collaborative Product Design by Austin Govella The Product & Experience Design Guide Work the Room, The Book, by Austin Govella The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters, by Priya Parker Gamestorming: A Playbook for Innovators, Rulebreakers, and Changemakers, by Dave Gray, Sunni Brown, and James Macanufo Moments of Impact: How to Design Strategic Conversations That Accelerate Change, by Chris Ertel and Lisa Kay Solomon Rapid Problem Solving With Post-it Notes, by David Straker   Other Design Thinking 101 Episodes You Might Like Designing Facilitation: a system for creating and leading exceptional events // ALD 006 — DT101 E73   Designing Your Team + Teams in Design Education + Coaching Design Teams with Mary Sherwin and David Sherwin — DT101 E49   Teams, Sprints, Prototyping, and Better Meetings with Douglas Ferguson — DT101 E59

In observance of the winter holidays, this episode doesn't feature a guest interview. Instead, I reflect on five themes that emerged in the diverse conversations we hosted on the podcast during 2021. I wish you and yours happy holidays! Cover photo by Waldemar Brandt on Unsplash. If you're enjoying the show, please rate or review it in Apple's Podcasts directory: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-informed-life/id1450117117?itsct=podcast_box&itscg=30200 Show notes The Informed Life episode 53: Jason Ulaszek on Healing Social Rifts The Informed Life episode 54: Kourosh Dini on DEVONthink The Informed Life episode 55: Hà Phan on Product Leadership The Informed Life episode 56: Margot Bloomstein on Trust The Informed Life episode 57: Ben Mosior on Wardley Maps The Informed Life episode 58: Jesse James Garrett on Leadership and IA The Informed Life episode 59: Matt LeMay on One Page / One Hour The Informed Life episode 60: Kat Vellos on Friendship The Informed Life episode 61: Jeff Sussna on Customer Value Charting The Informed Life episode 63: Sophia Prater on Object Oriented UX The Informed Life episode 64: Sarah Barrett on Architectural Scale The Informed Life episode 66: Jim Kalbach on Jobs to Be Done The Informed Life episode 68: Mags Hanley on Career Architecture The Informed Life episode 69: Karl Fast on Interactionism, part 1 The Informed Life episode 70: Karl Fast on Interactionism, part 2 The Informed Life episode 71: Sunni Brown on Deep Self Design The Informed Life episode 73: Patrick Tanguay on Newsletter Curation The Informed Life episode 74: Annie Murphy Paul on The Extended Mind The Informed Life episode 75: Hans Krueger on the Cycle of Emotions The Informed Life episode 76: Dan Brown on IA Lenses Some show notes may include Amazon affiliate links. I get a small commission for purchases made through these links. Read the transcript Jorge: Welcome to the informed life. In each episode of this show, we find out how people organize information to get things done. I am your host horsehair angle. Today, I don't have a guest on the show. Instead, I'm going to try something a little different. Rather than a conversation with a single guest, I'm going to do a review of some of the things that I heard during the course of the year. So, you'll be hearing from several of the folks who graciously agreed to be on the show. And the reason why I'm doing this is because I listen to a lot of interview-based podcasts. And while I find myself getting totally engrossed in each individual conversation, I often lose track of what I've heard before in prior conversations, and I have a hard time making sense of patterns that may be emerging. So, I thought that during this quiet time of year I might take some time out to do just that, to see if there are any themes or patterns that have stood out during the interviews i've done in the past 12 months. Of course, the guests on the show, didn't speak with each other. I don't want to imply that they're somehow in conversation or responding to each other's points. In fact, the only point that any of these conversations have in common was that I was a part of all of them. I'm also aware that when you take snippets of interviews out of context, It may change their meaning, especially when put next to other snippets from other conversations. And that's definitely not my intent. I'm not going to present these in the order in which they were recorded. In fact, I'm going to talk about these in no particular order. So, in this episode, I'm just going to edit these together and see if I can highlight some of these themes that seemed to have come up in more than one conversation. If you want to check out the full conversations, which I encourage you to do, I will include links to each episode in the show notes. Hopefully, this will prove useful to you if you choose to revisit the conversations we've had over the last year. So, now onto the themes. We recorded 25 conversations during 2021. And in revisiting them now, I've grouped them into five high-level themes. There are other ideas that have come up and there are different arrangements you could make, but these are five themes that stood out to me. The first theme, I'm calling, aligning our values with our actions. The second is about using intentional structures for self-development. The third is about practicing information architecture at scale. The fourth is highlighting tools and methods for visualizing systemic intent. And the fifth is about thinking beyond the brain. I'll unpack what these are about one by one and hopefully draw connections between them to try to bring some coherence to the conversations that we've been having throughout the year. Because I do think that there are things that connect them. Aligning our values with our actions Jorge: So now, let's dive into the first of these themes, which has to do with aligning our values with our actions. And this is one that came in this year, particularly strongly and with intent on my part because I was appalled by the January 6th insurrection in Washington, DC. This horrible event brought to life the degree to which there are deep social rifts in the U.S. And I I've been thinking about what designers can do so what can I do through my work to help make these things better. So I wanted to talk with folks who have been explicitly thinking about this stuff. And this led me to reach out to Jason Ulaszek, who has used design to help heal Rwandan society in the wake of the Rwandan genocide, which I think is obviously a much more extreme situation than the one that we're facing here in the U.S. Now, Jason is not originally from Rwanda, he's from the U.S., so I asked him if there's anything that we could learn from his experience that might help us in our society to start healing the rifts that divide us. And I was very intrigued by his answer; he talked about re-engaging with cultural values. And this is what he had to say: Jason Ulaszek: What was part of the Rwandans cultural value system well before the genocide against the Tutsi, and is now swung fully back -- and they're working hard to ensure that that's the case -- is a really strong sense of cultural values. What they've really tapped into -- and I think this is where it gets into design a bit -- is that they've tapped into ways to embody these cultural values inside of the experiences people have within education. Jorge: So there's an explicit attempt there to create structures — in that case, within the educational system — that help highlight the common social values that bind a people together. And in part the way that I understood it, at least the part of the idea there is to try to rebuild a sense of trust among parties. And we had another episode this year where we talked explicitly about building trust. And this was in episode 56, where I had a conversation with Margot Bloomstein about her book on the subject, which came out this year, called Trustworthy. And, as Margot put it in our conversation, a big part of building trust has to do with authenticity: with having our actions be grounded in a clear set of values and having them be aligned with those values. This is how Margot put it: Margot Bloomstein: You used the term "authenticity." And I think that that's a term that we throw around a lot; that's a term marketers love to throw around. Who wouldn't want to be authentic? And I always wonder, authentic to what? Do you know who you are? Know thy self first, and then you can determine, well, how do we align our actions with our values? Because that's how we measure authenticity: it's the distance between our actions and our words, all of that external stuff and our values. And I think for many organizations, they can jump into kind of the national conversation, into the international conversation, around many of those social issues and say, "Here's what we're doing. Here's why we support this. Here's what we're doing internally. And here's what we're doing externally to make this better for everyone." To put a stake in the ground. And they can do it building on that long-term, authentic investment in their values. Jorge: I love this idea of being more intentional about aligning our values and our actions as we seek to be more authentic. And of course Margot was talking here about doing that at the level of organizations, but it's also possible to do it at an individual level. And in my conversation with author Kat Vellos, we dug into that specifically in the context of her work. In nurturing friendships. And I asked Kat about how we might be more authentic in looking to create the structures that allow us to nurture friendships as we get older. And she highlighted the importance of being present. This is what she had to say about it. Kat Vellos: The more you immerse yourself in what is actually happening in that time that you're connecting with the other person, the more likely you are to feel the benefit. You know, when you're spending time sharing stories with a friend say, focus on their story, focus on them. Get curious. Ask followup questions and have that be the focus of your attention, rather than halfway listening and halfway being in your own head. Like, "do I feel less lonely right now? Do I feel less awkward right now?" Get out of that mental evaluation mode and get real immersed and real curious and interested in the other person. And that's actually when somebody feels heard. That's actually when somebody feels more connected is when you're really present and holding space with each other. Intentional structures for self-development Jorge: This idea of being more present was also an important part of our second theme, which has to do with creating intentional structures for self-development. I like to think of this almost as kind of an information architecture of the self. So, while it might seem on the surface like some of these conversations run a bit further a field from the subject of the show, I see them as being quite aligned in that we are creating conceptual structures that help us affect some kind of change. And in this second theme, the change has to do with internal transformation. We delved into this in a few conversations during the year. The first I will highlight is episode 71, where I interviewed Sunni Brown about her work in Deep Self Design, which is a practice rooted in Zen Buddhism and design thinking. And during this conversation, Sunni chastised me for allowing myself to let my devices keep me from being more present during a camping trip with my family. And I loved how Sunni talked about being more present. This is what she had to say: Sunni Brown: Camping, when it's like safe and beautiful... the point of it is to actually get you into a different state. To get your regulatory system in a different state so that you can enjoy your life and be present with your family and look at the sky and realize that you're part of... you are the sky, there's no difference between you and the sky, you just project that there is. And like, you know what I mean? So, you have to understand that that space is essential for your humanity and and make it a priority. And you can tell people, I mean, there's ways to approach it that are gentle on other people. So you can let people know, "I'm going to go dark for 72 hours. You should know that," Or, "I'm going to go dark, and then I'm going to have one hour where I look at stuff," you know? You have to design it for your life and what's actually available for you. Sometimes people have sick parents at home or sick kids or whatever, but you have to start to understand the benefit of it. Because I think most people think it's just like something they would lose. Like, they wouldn't get... something taken away from them. And I'm like, "no! It's something you're giving yourself that is priceless." And you get amazing ideas. Like your productivity goes up. So, I call it going slow to go fast. Actually I read this interesting Nietzsche quote, which I don't read Nietzsche a lot or anything, but like he said like great ideas are found when you're walking. And Steve Jobs was... Also, I'mnot obsessed with Steve Jobs, but he did a lot of walking meetings. So, If you are a productivity junkie, going slow helps you go fast. And it actually frees up a lot of stuck tension in the body and stuck ideas that you can't get through and it gives you solutions and ahas and insights. So there's huge rewards in it anyway, if you need it to be aligned with productivity. But it's like, dude, we're gonna die one day, Jorge. Like all of us! And the last thing I want to do is be like, "I spent my whole life on my iPhone!" That is like the worst thing that could happen. Jorge: So, we need to be more aware about what is going on with our systems, with our bodies — and we need to be present. And this was not the only conversation that I had that delved on similar subjects. In episode 75, I talked with my friend, Hans Krueger, who has also been influenced by Buddhism, on what he calls the cycle of emotions, which is a conceptual structure — a way of thinking about emotions and how emotions affect our behavior. Here's Hans: Hans Krueger: What surprisingly few people realize is that there is like a real system behind this thing, this whole emotional complex. How they work, how they interact with each other, what leads to what, what you can do to actually cultivate your own emotional state. A state that allows you to perceive as clearly as possible what is real, versus what you imagine is real. Jorge: There's an emerging theme here in the power of visualizing, might be one way to think about it, but at the very least naming these conceptual distinctions, becoming more aware of what is happening internally. And again, this might come across to some folks as not being relevant to information architecture at all. But I do think of these as conceptual structures where there are distinctions that we label and we establish relationships between those distinctions. And the structure helps us understand what we're doing so that we can act more skillfully, more mindfully. And at least one guest during the year talked about using such conceptual models, not just to help us personally, but to help us in our careers. In episode 68, Mags Hanley shared with us her work on career architecture, which is also the subject of her book, which was published after we talked. And Mags made the connection between the methods, processes and tools that we use as information architects and how we develop our careers. Mags Hanley: Career architecture is about how we can use the methods that we think about and we use as information architects or as UX professionals and apply that in a very systematic way into how we think about our careers. Practicing information architecture at scale Jorge: I like this idea of using information, architecture and user experience methods, practices, and tools for our own personal development. But we can also use them to develop our teams and to work at a different level of impact. I think of this as information architecture at scale, which is the next theme that emerged in the conversations that we had on the podcast over the year. Two that immediately come to mind, but I'm not going to highlight as much here, are the conversation with Jim Kalbach on jobs to be done, which, in addition to Jim's book, helped me clarify my own understanding of what jobs to be done are. And this is an important subject, one that designers and product managers need to be aware of. So, if you have heard the phrase, but are not entirely clear on what it means, I encourage you to check out my conversation with Jim. Another one is the conversation that I had recently with Dan Brown on information architecture lenses. And as that explained in that episode, the lenses are a set of cards, and now podcasts and YouTube videos, that aim to serve as a tool to help designers deal with architectural conundrums. So again, if you are into information architecture, and you haven't done so already. I encourage you to check out the conversation with Dan Brown. That said, there are a few episodes that I do want to call out here and bring to your attention. One is the conversation I had on episode 63 with Sophia Prater about her object oriented user experience framework. I see this as a way of formalizing conceptual models so they can be shared and discussed with other team members. This is how sophia described it during our conversation: Sophia Prater: OOUX is all about saying, "okay. If we know that our users think in objects and just human beings think in objects - not not just our developers - human beings think in objects, and to be able to gain understanding, you need to understand what the objects are in that system. And to understand what the objects are we need a certain level of consistency and recognizability to our objects." So as the designers of these environments, if we don't get really super clear on what our objects are, there's no way. There's just absolutely no way in hell that we're going to be able to translate that to our end users. We're just not! If we can't get it straight on our team and we can't get it straight among ourselves, then 1) that's going to create a lot of communication problems internally which is a problem that I hear all the time. We've got everybody on the team coming together. And some people, depending on what department you're in or what your role is, you've got the same object, the same thing being called two or three different things and different objects being called the same thing. And you're trying to design complex software. So just getting on the same page internally is going to be absolutely intrinsic to making sure that it's clear to your end users. Jorge: Another conversation that had to do with considering design at a different level of abstraction was in episode 64, where Sarah Barrett shared with us considerations about the architectural scale of the systems we design. I was particularly drawn to the way Sarah described how we should approach the intended effects of our work: Sarah Barrett: Occasionally, I get comments or people worrying that our information architecture isn't innovative enough that we're not doing anything surprising or introducing anything brand new. And I feel very strongly that your architecture is not the place to surprise people. Like, there are actual architects out there building very innovative homes that no one wants to live in. And I have no interest in doing that. I really want us to use the oldest, most standard, most expected way of doing things. I think the example of the grocery store is another great way here. There's a lot of benefit to not innovating in the layout of a grocery store. There probably is some benefit in innovating a little bit around the edges or in some details, but you gain a lot from making it legible and making it expected for people. And so, that one is really about... okay, given these things that we expect to have: we expect to have global navigation, we expect to have metadata on content, we expect to have titles and breadcrumbs... how do we unpack what each of those things is doing for us and make sure that between the suite of those elements we are using? Because you never use just one, you use lots of them together. Between all of those elements, we are presenting a coherent, complete view of the wayfinding people need. Jorge: It's one thing to create a coherent and complete system that allows people to find and understand things, and it's another to create the conditions that allow that system to evolve over time gracefully as conditions change but to retain that cohesiveness. And doing this requires that we understand that the things that we are designing are in fact systems and they are systems that will require stewardship over time. This implies that we need leadership. And that was the subject of episode 58, where I had a conversation with Jesse James Garrett about leadership and information architecture. This is part of what jesse said during that show. Jesse James Garrett: The way that I talk to folks about design leadership, who have come from a design background -that is to say they've been doing design work - is that leadership is just another design problem. And you're working with different materials and you're working toward different outcomes and you're having to follow different principles, but the task is the same task. It is a creative problem-solving task. It is a systems-thinking task, as a leader. So looking at the ways that you're already doing that systems-thinking, the ways in which you already doing that architecture for yourself in the work that you're already doing, and those will be your strengths. And those will be the pillars that you can lean on that are going to support your work as a leader going forward. They will evolve and they will not look like what they looked like when you were doing content inventories or task flows or whatever other artifacts you might've been working on as a designer. But the skill set that you're building is the same skill set. Jorge: The relationship between design and leadership, and how designers can use our tools, methods, practices, et cetera, to take on leadership roles, was also the subject of episode 55, which featured a conversation with hop-on about her own trajectory from design to product leadership. Hà Phan: I think the difficulty was between the role I have now, or the delta between the role I have now versus being a UX designer is that, you know, it's really a leadership role to basically provide the path to clarity. So when you have a vision, even as a seasoned UX designer, you're going to present forth this vision. And usually there's a thousand questions and a thousand steps before you get there, right? And usually you don't get there entirely. You know, you don't get to the vision entirely the way you had envisioned it. You're going to take turns, right? And I think in this role, what I get to do is that I get to enable the team to find that path to clarity, and to provide the milestones or the mission for each of the goals along the way. Jorge: This idea that leaders provide clarity and vision is very important. And it's one of the reasons why designers can make good leaders, because part of what designers do is clarify and help visualize abstract ideas. I keep saying that design is about making possibilities tangible: we take these vague notions, requirements, constraints, ill defined contexts, and we make things. And these things that we make can be validated somehow. We can put them in context and have them be used by the people that we intend to serve, to see whether things are working or not. And we create feedback loops where we make them incrementally better, better suited to meeting the needs of the people they serve. Visualizing systemic intent Jorge: And this idea of leadership as a role that clarifies and articulates a vision, brings us to the fourth theme that I noticed in going back over this year's episodes, which has to do with highlighting tools and methods for visualizing systemic intent. And by that, I mean different ways of mapping systems and making systems more tangible. Again, this idea of making the abstract more relatable. And we had several conversations along those lines. The first I'm going to highlight here is episode 59, in which Matt LeMay may shared with us One Page / One Hour, an approach he's developed to help teams articulate what they're making by working fast and iterating. So, rather than creating some kind of polished deck, the idea here is to articulate a vision really quickly so that you can spend less time upfront creating polished artifacts and spend more time iterating with stakeholders and other team members. Here's Matt describing how he came up with One Page / One Hour. Matt LeMay: I wrote up this pledge to my business partners saying I'm willing to forego the sense of individual accomplishment that comes from presenting finished and polished deliverables to my colleagues. I promise that I will spend no more than one page and one hour working on any deliverable - any document - before I bring it to the team. In other words, if I show up with five beautifully formatted pages or a one-page that took me 10 hours to create, I want you to hold me accountable to that. I want you to say, "man, why did you do this? We made a deal. We made a commitment to each other! We all know that if we actually want to deliver value, if we want to do valuable work, we need to collaborate earlier on. You can't go off onto your own and create this big thing, and then just want us to tell you how great it is!" Jorge: One Page / One Hour is about trying to articulate very quickly what we have in mind and sharing it so that we can start iterating on it. A few of the other conversations that we had during the year around visualizing systems and visualizing intent were about artifacts that are a little more elaborate. An example of this is Customer Value Charting, which Jeff Sussna shared with us in episode 61. Customer Value Charting, as Jeff explained, it is a tool to balance strategy and agility. And the purpose of creating that balance is to drive customer benefits, which are related to but not the same as business benefits. Jeff illustrated this by means of an example using a common service. Jeff Sussna: The benefit of the dry cleaner is that I can get my tuxedo cleaned in time to go to the formal event. It's not fundamentally about a cash register or a counter or even cleaning chemicals. And I mention that because a lot of the conversation I see around outcomes over outputs tends to actually talk about business outcomes. You know, revenue growth and customer retention, and time on site and business outcomes are great. I don't have any problem with them, but people tend to skip this step. We have a hypothesis that this feature will cause this change in customer behavior, which will lead to this business outcome or business impact. But it leaves open the question of, well, why is the customer changing their behavior? What is the benefit to them? Jorge: These are complex questions to take on for designers or for anyone, frankly. And it's helpful to hear about how folks are going about it. Customer Value Charting is one way of doing it. Another way of visualizing systems and visualizing things like customer needs in a systemic way was shared with us by Ben Mosiure in our conversation, which focused on Wardley maps. Ben Mosior: Wardley mapping is a visual way of representing systems: its users, its needs, its capabilities, its relationships between all those three things. And then it's also positioning those things in a way that helps their qualities become more apparent. So there's this thing that Simon Research called "Evolution." It's basically how do things evolve and get better or die under the pressures of supply demand competition, and what you get is like things start out new, uncertain, high risk, high failure, but with a high potential for future value. But then as they evolve, they get better. You know, someone's always like looking at these weird ideas and trying to make them better because capitalism basically suggest there's money to be made. So someone out there is going to try to make it better. And over time, if the idea is worth investing in, it will continue to get better, more known, more boring, more predictable, and the value of it will be more concrete. And eventually, if it evolves to a certain extent, it becomes an invisible part of our everyday lives. And so, Simon says, look, you want to represent the systems that we're a part of both in terms of their parts and relationships, but also in terms of how evolved each of those parts are. Because what that does is it sets you up to understand the implications of those qualities. New stuff is going to be high failure, old stuff that everybody understands, that's just part of everyday reality like power in the wall. It is going to be less surprising, it's going to be less failure. And so that means that depending on the context, depending on the part of the system we're looking at, we need to have a different way of approaching it. And I think that's the entire point. By making visual artifacts -- by talking about our systems visually -- we can come together, look at a specific part of it, appreciate its qualities, and then together determine what our collective intent is about that part of the system. Jorge: That's a great description of this idea that we can take these complex abstract ideas and make them tangible, make them manifest in the world, and as a result, make it possible for us to have conversations about them, to somehow change the state of things, to make things better. Thinking beyond the brain Jorge: And that brings us to the fifth and final theme that emerged over the year and that I want to emphasize here, which has to do with using tools and our environment to extend our cognitive system. So, in some way, when we are putting up stickies or diagrams or anything up on the wall, we are making it possible for us to share a cognitive space of sorts. And this is true, whether we're doing it with a note-taking app or stickies on a whiteboard. In taking stuff out of our heads and putting them out into the world, we can somehow extend our minds. And that's why I'm calling this fifth theme "thinking beyond the brain." Conversations about this theme came in two different flavors. On the one hand, we had folks who shared with us their thinking processes and tools. And on the other hand, we had a few conversations that were about thinking in this way itself and I'll say a little bit more about both of those. So, first with the thinking processes and tools. In episode 75, Patrick Tanguay shared with us, how he uses a combination of tools to write one of my favorite newsletters, Sentiers. And it's a setup that mirrors somewhat closely my own setup. Another great conversation about a particular tool was in episode 54, where Kourosh Dini told us about how he's using DEVONthink for building a personal knowledge management system. I was very excited to talk with Kourosh because he wrote a book that helped me use DEVONthink better. If you're unfamiliar with this tool and you are someone who needs to manage a lot of information, let's say if you're teaching or writing, it behooves you to give episode 54 a listen. As I mentioned, I also hosted a few discussions which were not about tools in particular, but a little more meta about how the mind itself works beyond the brain. I'll be frank with you, these were some of my favorite conversations during the year. One was with Annie Murphy Paul about her book, The Extended Mind. Annie's book is the clearest explanation I've read on the science behind the field of embodied cognition. It was one of my favorite reads of the year because it does a really good job at dispelling erroneous notions about how the brain works. And I think that this is a very important subject for designers to understand. Here's Annie. Annie Murphy Paul: I always like to say we're more like animals than we are like machines. You know, the brain is a biological organ. I mean, I know this is obvious, but we really can get very entranced in a way by this metaphor of "brain as computer." The brain is a biological organ that evolved to carry out tasks that are often very different from the tasks that we expect it to execute today. And so, our misunderstanding of what the brain is leads us, as you were saying, Jorge, to create these structures in society. In education and in the workplace, in our everyday lives, that really don't suit the reality of what the brain is. I mean, I'm thinking about how, for example, we expect ourselves to be productive. Whether that's in the workplace, or what we expect our students to do in school. You know, we often expect ourselves to sit still, don't move around, don't change the space where you're in. Don't talk to other people. Just sit there and kind of work until it's done. And that's how we expect ourselves to get serious thinking done. And that makes sense, if the brain is a computer, you know? You feed it information and it processes the information, then it spits out the answer in this very linear fashion. But that's not at all how the brain works. Because the brain is so exquisitely sensitive to context, and that context can be the way our bodies are feeling and how they're moving, that context can be literally where we are situated and what we see and what we experience around us, and that context can be the social context: whether we're with other people, whether we're talking to them, how those conversations are unfolding -- all those things have an incredibly powerful impact on how we think. And so, when we expect the brain to function like a computer, whether that's in the office or in the classroom, we're really underselling its actual powers -- its actual genius -- and we're cutting ourselves off from the wellsprings of our own intelligence, which is the fact that we are embodied creatures embedded in an environment and set in this network of relationships. So, it really... we're really kind of leaving a lot of potential intelligence on the table when we limit our idea of what the brain is in that way. Jorge: While this may seem like we are venturing a little far from the ostensible subject of the show, which is about how people organize information to get things done, there's two reasons why I think it's important for us to delve into this subject. One reason is that, if we are to properly organize information so that we can find things, understand things and so on, we have to understand how our minds work, because ultimately what we're doing is we are designing for minds. And the second reason is that in so doing — in organizing information, in creating these information environments — we are creating contexts of the sort that Annie was talking about there. Even if they are not physical contexts, they are contexts that influence how we understand things. The second conversation I had this year on this subject and which I want to highlight here is the conversation I had with my friend, Karl Fast over episodes 69 and 70. And as you might know, if you've been listening to the show for a while, that's the first time I've ever done a double header. In other words, that I've split a conversation between two episodes. And it's just because we had so much to talk about. And I don't think I can do that conversation justice by extracting just any one clip. But again, I do believe that this is an important subject for you to know about, so I encourage you to check out the whole thing. Closing Jorge: So there you have it, that's a very high level overview of some of the conversations that have stood out to me in the podcast over the last year. Now, obviously there were many more — I told you that we recorded 25 episodes — I don't want to in any way suggest that the other ones weren't as interesting. I just wanted to highlight the ones that I thought manifested some of these themes. And to recap them, the five themes are: aligning our values with our actions, using intentional structures for self-development, practicing information architecture at scale, tools and methods for visualizing systemic intent and then finally, thinking beyond the brain. These are subjects that I care about. And it's no accident that we end up having conversations about these things on the show. One of the interesting things about revisiting them now at the end of the year, is that I can start seeing threads that run through several of the themes. For example, the idea that we need to visualize abstract and complex systems, and that doing so allows us to have better conversations about them. That seems to be a thread that's running through various of these themes. It's true, whether we are talking about our own internal values or our career development, or whether we're talking about a service that we are looking to develop for our clients. And like I've said before, I think that designers — and particularly structurally- and systemically-minded designers, such as information architects — are particularly well-suited to visualize systems in this way. The other thread that I see running through all of this is the importance of considering the context that we are working with and working on, and not just the content of what we're designing. The things that we make are going to be experienced in some kind of environment, whether it's a physical environment or some kind of information environment. And the environment makes a big difference. We understand things in context. And part of what we do as information architects is establish those contexts. That's one of the reasons why I've been emphasizing these conversations about embodied cognition and the extended mind. Because science is making it increasingly clear that thinking happens, not just in our nervous systems, but in our bodies. And more to the point here, it happens out in the world. It happens in our environments and it happens in the tools that we interact with. And again, it's a system that is comprised by ourselves as actors, agents, but also the environments in which we're operating. And we can configure those environments in various ways to help us think better. And I think that this is an important frontier, so to speak, an important area of development for people who design structures of information, who create contexts through language and signs. I've loved the conversations that we've had on the show this year. And that is mostly due to the fact that the guests have been great. I am very grateful to everyone who has agreed to be on the show to have me interview them, to share their ideas, their work, their research, their experience with us. I also want to thank Sarah Clarkson, who I have not acknowledged in the show before. And I'm long overdue in doing that, but Sarah helps me edit the podcast. And her help has been invaluable in getting these shows out to you on time. And of course, I'm very grateful for you; for the fact that you are listening to this, that you have decided to make the show a part of your podcast listening. I would love to know whether there's anything that we can do to make things better. So, please drop by the informed.life, and leave us a note. But for now, I'll just tell you that I am planning to keep the show going. I have guests already lined up for next year. I'm excited about these conversations: having them and also being able to share them with you. So again, thank you. I wish you and yours happy holidays and I look forward to sharing more with you next year.

Sunni Brown and Dave Mastronardi Listen to this special episode where we are lucky interview the two legends while they are sitting in the same physical room talking about facilitation and what makes it so tricky and beautiful, how facilitation changed in the post-covid era. Can Gamestorming work offline? :D Can you do hybrid workshops? How to prepare for when something goes wrong during a workshop? Tune in to get inspired from the two stars of facilitation, both in physical and remote environments.     SUPPORT THE PODCAST   This show is brought to you by the Visual Thinking and Sketchnoting Boot Camp Udemyonline course developed for you by Yuri Malishenko. This unique and highly practical signature course will teach you all the necessary elements that you need to employ visual thinking for your profession. You will learn how to draw simply and use sketching techniques to take visual notes, facilitate group discussions, and communicate your ideas with clarity! By the end of the course, you will have completed a unique do-it-yourself workbook that you will carry around as a reference and inspiration for your future ideas!   With the help of the course, you will boost your thinking and communication skills as well as improve your productivity and effectiveness. By purchasing the course you get lifetime access to almost 7 hours of high-quality video instructions with numerous assignments close to real life.   You can sign up for the course here:   https://www.udemy.com/course/visual-thinking-and-sketchnoting-boot-camp/?

Sunni Brown is a social entrepreneur who has been named one of the “100 Most Creative People in Business” and one of the “10 Most Creative People on Twitter” by Fast Company. She is the best-selling author of Gamestorming and The Doodle Revolution, a keynote speaker, expert meeting facilitator, book coach and dedicated Zen student. Her TED Talk has drawn more than 1.6 million views and her work has been featured in The New York Times, The New York Post, The Wall Street Journal, Time, and WIRED, as well as being featured twice on CBS Sunday Morning and on The TODAY Show. She is currently the Doodler-in-Residence at MURAL. Time Stamp [2:40] How Sunni would describe herself [4:25] The importance of zen and how Sunni has applied it to her life [5:54] Trauma history and how it affects creativity [6:20] The art of the pivot [8:41] Deep Self Design, and what happened [12:13] The power of a true calling [13:54] Women and finances, financial self-worth [14:53] Sunni's pivot to a book coach [17:03] What Sunni does now, and the support around life changes [18:30] Sunni's qualified prediction of the future [19:27] The secret of the pivot [20:28] Energy fields and how to tap into them [21:37] Testing things out, spinning the universe [22:37] Cognitive rigidity, and how to overcome it [25:19] Designing Your Life by Bill Burnett [27:31] Resonance of the system [29:50] Sunni's dream life Sunni Brown Website https://www.sunnibrown.com/ Deep Self Design https://www.deepselfdesign.com/ Follow Sunni Brown on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/sunnibrown/ Follow Sunni Brown on Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/sunnibrown/ Books written by Sunni: Game Storming with Dave Gray and James Macafuno Doodle Revolution Books Sunni has read or attempts to read: Ishmael by Daniel Quinn Brave New Work by Aaron Dignan Heroine's Journey Workbook by Maureen Murdock Atomic Habits by James Clear Designing Your Life by Bill Burnett Kiss Me Like a Stranger by Gene Wilder Follow Patti Dobrowolski - Instagram https://www.instagram.com/upyourcreativegenius/ Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/patti-dobrowolski-532368/ Up Your Creative Genius https://www.upyourcreativegenius.com/

Sunni Brown is a social entrepreneur who uses visual literacy, design thinking, and visual facilitation to solve complex problems. She's the author of The Doodle Revolution and co-author of Gamestorming. In this conversation, we discuss Sunni's current area of focus, which uses Zen Buddhism and design thinking to help individuals craft a more fulfilling and engaged life. Show notes Sunni Brown Deep Self Design Sunni on Twitter Sunni on LinkedIn Sunni on Instagram Sunni on Facebook The Doodle Revolution: Unlock the Power to Think Differently by Sunni Brown Gamestorming: A Playbook for Innovators, Rulebreakers, and Changemakers by Dave Gray, Sunni Brown, and James Macanufo Dave Mastronardi (LinkedIn) What is a multipotentialite? The Nexialist approach: Van Vogt and the idea that ‘specialisation is for insects' Sōtō Zen Zendō Reality distortion field _Liminal Thinking: Create the Change You Want by Changing the Way You Think_ by Dave Gray In defense of the visual alphabet by Dave Gray Design personas Kate Rutter (LinkedIn) Brené Brown Sesshin Double diamond diagram Some show notes may include Amazon affiliate links. I get a small commission for purchases made through these links. Read the transcript Jorge: Sunni, welcome to the show. Sunni: Thank you. Jorge: It's a pleasure having you here. For folks who might not know you, would you mind, please, introducing yourself? About Sunni Sunni: Oh, when you let me know that we were going to have to do that, I had this like moment of, oh God! How do you introduce oneself when you're a, like a... well, the new term is multipotentialite. Have you heard this obnoxious term? Jorge: No. Sunni: Well, it's like if you're a polymath, or if you just have multifaceted aspects of yourself. It's not easy to summarize who I am, what I do. So, I always dread the question. But there is a term floating around called multipotentialite, and it just means the person that has many skills and many things that they pursue and many things that they're interested in. There's a lot of neuro-diversity going on, so we're not easily put in a space. So, it's hard for me to summarize myself. But I would say what's useful for people to know for the purposes of this conversation is probably that... I'll just tell you my role. I am an author and a public speaker and a visual thinker, and a facilitator. Really, a sort of deep-dive facilitator. And a Zen student. And also what I call a Deep Self Designer. And a book coach. So as you can see, my friend, Dave Mastronardi, finally gave me language for this the other day. He goes, "you're just a creative with a capital C!" And I was like, "Cool, Dave, thank you! Because that kind of helps, you know?" It's like, I just am interested in a lot. Jorge: I don't like the word generalist because it implies like Jack of all trades, master of none. Sunni: Yeah, right! Jorge: I love this idea of multipotentialite. I recently heard the word "nexialist," which... Sunni: What is that? Like a person at the nexus of lots of things? Jorge: Doesn't quite roll off the tongue either. It comes from a sci-fi book, and I'll put a link in the show notes so that we don't have to go into it in too much depth here. But I think it's a similar idea, that you are driven by several different interests. Sunni: I love science fiction for that. They always give us language that we need, you know? Jorge: I feel like I want to explore several of the many... what's the plural of nexus? Is it nexuses? Or nexii? Sunni: Nexialisms! Jorge: Several of the different identities that you served us there. Or potentialities, maybe. You spoke of... well, let's, tackle two of them that I'm especially curious about. You mentioned that you're a Zen student and a Deep Self Designer. I don't know if you want to take those independently or if they somehow connect? Sunni: They do connect, actually. And it's cool that you alighted in on those two, because they're the... I think honestly, the most important ones that I do. And they have the most... they have the most liberating capacity of all the things that I do. And they do have intersections, absolutely. Zen Sunni: So, Zen is not something you can summarize really at all. It's such a deep and ancient lineage and an enormous body of practice. But what I find useful and what actually... it was sort of the groundwork for my pursuit of designing another method. And what it did for me was help me understand that the mind is a machine, and it has like projections onto reality all the time. And it has narratives and stories that it constantly creates and recreates and lives into. And they can be very confining, these perceptions of reality. And so when you run into some ideas about reality that are actually created by you, based on your history and your experience, if they cause friction for you, then there's a sort of place where you can redesign that intersection with reality to create a better reality for yourself. And I know that's like a lot to just unload in conversation, but Zen made just sitting, which is... I'm in what's called the Soto Zen lineage. So literally, you sit in meditation for hours. I mean, I probably sat for 10,000 hours easily, and - not easily, but difficult-ly. But we call it just getting on the cushion, right? So like you just take it there, and then you kind of watch what your mind is up to. And through that process, I learned how I trick myself, how I can have distortions in my belief systems. I think Steve Jobs used to call it a "reality distortion field." I think he was also a Zen practitioner. But that laid the groundwork for me to understand, "oh, I have a lot of agency and choice once I understand how my system works." And you know, like you're a systems thinker and a design thinker, so of course I was interested in that. And then I just went from that place and started to practice with different methods to support other people. Jorge: I'm reminded of our mutual friend Dave Gray's book, Liminal Thinking. Sunni: Oh, Yeah! It's so funny you said that. Because I have it, of course — I always will buy whatever Dave makes, but I haven't read it because I always have way too many books. But I understand kind of the vibe, and a lot of people, when I talk about this, they bring up his book, and I'm like, I should read that. Jorge: When I first read that, I remember asking Dave about it because I got the sense that there was a lot of Buddhism in... Sunni: Yeah, I don't know that Dave knows that he has a Buddhist aspect. I don't think he's a Buddhist practitioner. But I have found there are multiple people that actually arrive at some of these deep wisdoms because it's not... it's in reality. So, the Buddha was just describing reality. So, anyone can find their own path to that awareness. And so, yeah! It's funny to me when I work with people, and I go, "oh my God, that's like a very ancient principle that you stumbled upon," you know? So I think Dave must've done that too. Because he doesn't like go to the zendo, I'm pretty sure. Jorge: The path, it seems to me... and here I'm reflecting back to you what perhaps I layered through my own experience onto what you were saying, which is that we experience reality at various different levels. And if you step back far enough, you're able to contemplate the fact that much of what we experience is in some ways emerging from within us? Or at least the way that we're experiencing it is emerging from within us. Sunni: Well said! Beautifully said, yeah! Deep Self Design Jorge: I want to bring it back to this idea of Deep Self Design. What I'm projecting onto this or where I think that the two circles in the Venn diagram might overlap, is that, if you understand this - this fact that, much of what we are experiencing is emerging from within us - and you are someone who sees the world through the eyes of design, then perhaps you can do something about it, Sunni: You do a lot. Jorge: So what would you be able to do about it? Sunni: It's so funny, we're talking about this because last night I was having this conversation with my husband about workability. So everything... well, I won't make totalizing statements. I'll try to avoid them, but almost everything in your internal system is workable. Meaning that it all has plasticity and an adaptation capacity, or a significant amount of it. This is going to sound very hyperbolic, but the reason I have such confidence in the workability of the system is because I redesigned my own internal experience over the course of... it's been 15 years now. But the mind that I started with when I started investigating this practice and the mind I have now are entirely different planetary systems. And I have a complex trauma history, which is relevant because when you have a complex trauma history, you have a whole host of distorted ideas about reality, all of which are workable. And so, for me, it's like an actually hopeful message. It's like, "oh my God. Your backstory can be kind of f*cked up, you know?" And you can completely... as long as, to your point, it was a really important thing that you said Jorge, which was, "if you step back." So, you have to get some separation and observe, with compassion, your belief systems, and from that seat, it's like a gentle observation, then you have space with which to work. Often the traumatized brain is terrified of making that separation. It can be, for a variety of reasons. So, that's why it is a practice, and it's a patience game, often. But you can literally redesign your experience of yourself and of the world and of other people and of what's possible. And the energy that you liberate in that process is insane. It's absolutely insane how much energy you get when you untether yourself from a lot of distorted ideas about yourself in the world. And that's why I thought like, well, it's a design thinking challenge, you know? It's basically like internal system mapping and then giving people methodologies to support the spaces that they want to loosen up or soften. I'm very fortunate to have encountered great teachers, really extraordinary teachers, and I'm fortunate to have had the time and the passion to do a deep dive. But it's like that hero's journey where you go in, and you come out, and you're like, "well, I have something I could share." So, I'm still sorting out how to teach it, how to format it, how to design a methodology because it is not a small thing to try to do, but it's worth it. It's completely worth it to try. Jorge: It sounds empowering. Sunni: It's extremely empowering. Jorge: It sounds like a practice that restores perhaps a sense of agency where you're not buffeted by the contingencies of whatever happens in everyday life as much. Sunni: And it's so important! That message is so important because there are places you go that are scary. And there are fires you have to walk through. And you have to know that on the other side, not only will you be more free, but you'll be stronger. But you can't know that going in. Once you get your sea legs and you start to understand, "oh my God, this is like Jedi training!" then you can feel more confident about the outcome. But the early stages for most people is it can be absolutely terrifying. 100%. Absolutely true. I mean, that's why most people can't even sit in meditation, frankly because a lot of people do not want to sit with the content of their own mind. It's not something that we're encouraged to do, and it's not something that we're taught to do, and we don't know why we would do it. So we spend a lot of time avoiding that very thing. Understandably. I mean, I understand that instinct completely. It's... it's terrifying. But it's so freaking worth it. It's so worth it! There's no question about it. No question! And it improves your life, you know? It improves your relationships with yourself and other people. And really, your relationships are the most valuable thing you have. And your health, and maybe time, you know? So it's a significant process, but it's not necessarily for everyone. And probably you experienced this with your students. There's what I call a state of readiness, which means that they're willing to do the work. They're willing to be honest with themselves and others, and they're willing to address and hold space for really difficult content. And if I work with a person and it's very clear that they're not actually at that place, then they need to come back. They need to go and come back, you know? Because it's a thing. And then in Zen, the analogy is when you go to the zendo, and you knock on the door three times, and a monk opens the door, and they say, "go away!" You know? And they shut the door, and then you sleep out in the cold or whatever, and then you come again. You knock, and then the monk opens and says, "go away." So it's a way of saying, if you're not ready, don't bother! Don't come, you know? And that process is a person's individual journey, and you can't rush that for people. Starting the journey Jorge: You mentioned in your own journey having suffered complex trauma and without getting into it, just thinking that many of us - many folks listening - have... especially over the last year and a half... gone through some pretty traumatic experiences. And with the caveat that you just laid out that not everybody might be ready to undertake such a practice, but assuming that someone would be interested in at least trying to envision the path, where would they start? Sunni: So the chapter I was telling you I sent to Kate, there are writing exercises, and there are visual thinking exercises. And often, I will just say, you know, you're in a creation when your energy has become contracted, combative, tight — when you feel conflict, internally. Your body gives you all these signals that all is not well, and it can be a very subtle signal. Say you're in a restaurant, and a person walks in, and your stomach clenches. That's an indication. So, you start with noticing. Just pay attention to what is happening inside of your system because you have to understand that you are the reactor. And the stimulus is out there, but you are the reactor. And so, noticing it's a huge part of the practice — just to start there. It's like when I used to teach visual thinking — and I do occasionally sometimes, still — but the visual thinking alphabet that Dave created, Dave Gray. It's the basics. Just start with observing where these forms are and draw them on paper. Really, you've got to start at that place and notice if you judge it. Because a lot of people will be like, "oh, I should be more brave. Why did I get nervous when the boss came in?" Or whatever. We'll instantly have a reaction to our reaction. So just noticing that. So that's the start, right? And then once you have a relationship with your experience... so you're like, "man, every time my mom comes over, I want to argue! Like right away! I just want to argue with her," you know? So you're like, okay! And so, you notice that. So, you begin to take responsibility for what you're bringing, and that's why it's empowering. It's so fascinating how accountability is like not sexy, but I'm like, that's the greatest thing you can do because you're in charge of your life. You're driving your bus, you know? So, then there are exercises that I give people that are really simple. Like just notice that a part of you came online and wanted to argue with your mom. And then it's really like a design inquiry. It's like an investigation of, imagine that that's a persona. So, say that's a design persona. And I've taught it in this way in some keynotes and stuff. So, I depersonalize it, and I say, "just treat that like a persona or an avatar. And just like you would if you were anthropologically studying a user experience. But do it for your own self." Start to understand that persona and just give it some quality... I mean, it will name itself. That's what's so fascinating is that these personas, these internal personas — they give you information. They actually let you know because they're part of your brain. So, it's just about accessing that information that's in the brain. And I'm saying it trivially like it's just that. But it's all there, and so you just get curious. You just get curious and start finding out. And so, over time, I like to teach people to create like a constellation. Like a map of their internal system with all of these different personas so that they can relate to them differently. And when they do that, that's when it starts getting good. Jorge: All of a sudden, you start understanding the territory — I would imagine — when map-making. I wanted to clarify, you mentioned Kate, and you were talking about our mutual friend, Kate Rutter, who we were talking about before starting the recording. And you alluded to a chapter. Was that a chapter of a book that you're working on, or... Sunni's new book Sunni: Yeah, this book... So, as I mentioned earlier, I'm a book coach, and I'm obsessed with books. I could be wrong, but if I had nothing but time and money, I think books are all I would do. Just unpacking and looking at publishing, coaching writers, writing... That's all I would do. So, you know, I'm published twice, and we pitched this book, actually. It is the Deep Self Design book, and the title was called, The Only Way Out Is In. Like one of the original titles, The Only Way Out Is In. And then the... I can't remember the subtitle. I have like 4,000 subtitles. But, so we pitched it. So, it was actually in proposal form. When you want to pitch to a traditional publisher, you've got to get your book in a proposal that essentially describes the product for them. It's unfortunate, but for them, it's a product. And for you too, really. So, that... it was like 90 pages of just glory, you know, and it took me years. And so, anyway, the way it ended up, and I can tell that story — but at one point in the process, I said, "Kate, can I send you, like, chapter one? And you just see if it lands for you. Like, give me a reader reaction" And apparently, it turned some keys pretty quickly for her. Because she wrote me and was like... she'd had drawn a picture of one of her personas. And I didn't even ask her to do that. And it was called "The Aviator." And so, she learned about this part of her that like flies around and sort of conducts the situation and looks from a high level and is very functional, you know, high functioning part, persona. She just got it, you know? But she's really smart. So I was like, well... because you got to write to like an eighth-grader, right? That's the level of communication that you want in books, which is why Brene Brown's tone is so beloved. So, she just listed that chapter again, and I'm willing to share with anyone. I mean, people need to know how to do it. And so, the book was pitched to publishers, and there were 17 of them. And then like 12 of them wrote back, which is pretty good. And they all said the methodology was too complex for a typical reader. And I lost my mind because I had already simplified it so very much. That day, I was like standing in my neighbor's yard, and I was just like, "nooooooo!" Because it's hard to attract to the marketplace and to still deliver something really of high value. My God! It's exhausting. So, I have put it down for now. And I started working on another book about confidence because I was like, I can't. I can revisit this thing. I'm going to f*cking freak out. Yeah. But it'll emerge at some point. Taking your space Jorge: Well, I'm hoping that we'll be able to read the Deep Self Design book at some point. I'm wondering about something that you said, and again, trying to be kind of practical for the folks listening in and wondering about where we start. I would imagine that doing this sort of internal map that you're describing here is not something that we can do effectively amidst the hustle and bustle, right? And you spoke earlier about making space. And I just got back from a weekend of camping with my family, and we went pretty far out into the woods. And I was... yeah, it was nice, but I was still surrounded by devices, and I... Sunni: Oh! Jorge: I got into a little bit of a Twitter kerfuffle. Sunni: Oh no! Jorge: Right? And I'm bringing up the story to say: it's so hard for us these days to find this space to be with ourselves and to be introspective? And even if we are aware... Sunni: You have to take it. You have to take that space. Jorge: Well, how do we do it? Do you have any advice for folks wanting to take the space? Sunni: Well, yeah. When you do a Zen sesshin, you can't have books or paper or phones. And so, you've got to do like seven days of like 10 hours of meditation. So, that is sacred time — no question about it. But for a normal person, that's not going to be on their calendar. First, you have to understand that you probably have an addiction, right? If you can't remove yourself from an object for any chunk of time, that is actually an addictive relationship. So, that's serious shit, if you ask me. And I don't think it's a popular opinion. And I think that it's also true. So for me, just labeling it as an addictive relationship is step one. And then, you don't even want to go into, like, it could be an abusive relationship. We don't even have to talk about that, but that's in there too. So, you have to understand that. And you have to just understand what is in it for you to separate yourself from it and give yourself a path. So, can I separate from my phone for four hours? If you don't want to go cold turkey, just try for four hours and notice what happens in your system when you do that. And that's actually part of the practice for Deep Self Design anyway. So, you can be like, wow, I started having FOMO. Or, I start thinking that someone's going to be mad at me because I didn't respond to them. So, you get all kinds of information from just that short separation. And there's a lot of data around... Like it literally keys up your nervous system, being in a relationship with a digital object all the time. It keys up your nervous system. And so, actually to regulate your nervous system again, which is what camping is kind of for. Camping, when it's safe and beautiful... the point of it is to actually get you into a different state. To get your regulatory system in a different state so that you can enjoy your life and be present with your family and look at the sky and realize that you're part of... you are the sky, there's no difference between you and the sky, you just project that there is. And like, you know what I mean? So, you have to understand that that space is essential for your humanity and make it a priority. And you can tell people, I mean, there are ways to approach it that are gentle on other people. So you can let people know, "I'm going to go dark for 72 hours. You should know that." Or, "I'm going to go dark, and then I'm going to have one hour where I look at stuff," you know? You have to design it for your life and what's actually available for you. Sometimes people have sick parents at home or sick kids or whatever, but you have to start to understand the benefit of it. Because I think most people think it's just like something they would lose. Like, they wouldn't get... something taken away from them. And I'm like, "no! It's something you're giving yourself that is priceless." And you get amazing ideas. Like your productivity goes up. So, I call it going slow to go fast. Actually, I read this interesting Nietzsche quote, which I don't read Nietzsche a lot or anything, but as he said like great ideas are found when you're walking. And Steve Jobs was... Also, I'm not obsessed with Steve Jobs, but he did a lot of walking meetings. So, If you are a productivity junkie, going slow helps you go fast. And it actually frees up a lot of stuck tension in the body and stuck ideas that you can't get through, and it gives you solutions and ah-has and insights. So there are huge rewards in it anyway if you need it to be aligned with productivity. But it's like, dude, we're gonna die one day, Jorge. Like all of us! And the last thing I want to do is be like, "I spent my whole life on my iPhone!" That is like the worst thing that could happen. No! And it's like, if you mess it up, try it again. Just like don't give up, you know? Go camping again and have a new policy with your family. Get consensus around it, make an agreement, and just find other ways to occupy your time. But it's a practice, you know? Are you digging this? You're smiling. Putting it in action Jorge: I am. I'm smiling because I'm looking at the clock and thinking, oh man, we're running out of time, but I don't want to leave folks with, "we're going to die someday." So, I want to bring it back to... Well, you've mentioned two things. One is this idea of making space, which, as you were saying, in our modern world often entails not just space but also shielding ourselves from these potentially addictive devices. And then the technologies that they enable. And then there's this aspect of self-awareness through — you talked about map-making and using the lens of design to think of ourselves as personas. It sounds like those two are essential to getting kind of a read — it's almost like the first part of the double diamond diagram. But there comes this moment where we have to do the synthesis work in design, and we have to think through how we're going to move forward, what we're going to do about it. So, is there a step three here as well? Sunni: After synthesis? Jorge: No, after we've done the map and we have understood ourselves. Sunni: Yes. There's definitely a step three, which is what I would call the "befriending" step. So, you have your constellation of parts of you, like how many personas are in there, and there's an average, but it's kind of infinite when you go in too far. But the next step is basically finding your most active personas. Because, when you wake up, you... I have an active persona, which is like, "oh, I'm going to be really productive. I'm going to be very in touch with a lot of people. make sure that everyone is well-fed." You know, so I have like a kitchen/caretaker part. Like I have all these personas. So you can find the most dominant ones - the most operative ones. And then, and you start to learn about them. And then, but the ultimate goal is to make friends with them all. Even the parts of yourself that you do not like because what happens when you allow and support and befriend all of the aspects of yourself is that all of this internal tension that people experience... like people wake up with anxiety, you know, people wake up with self-criticism, et cetera. All of that energy stabilizes and is calm so that your experience relating to yourself is not fraught with tension anymore. So, you actually have to befriend them, like you would an external child or a person that you care about who lives outside. You do that work internally. And when you do, you spend a lot less time kicking your own ass. I mean, people kick their own asses constantly, you know? And it's like, I'm starting to understand why is that? And what's happening there, and how do you appreciate that you're doing that, but also let it know that you don't have to do that in order to be smart or in order to be productive, et cetera. So that is like the biggest step is to befriend all of your constellations on your map. And then from there, it's like flying, you know? It's like, there's nobody in the way. There's nobody in the way. I mean, there's life; there are institutions of life that are designed to oppress people. Those things are still there, but the way that we relate to them is very different, and that's why it feels so liberating. Closing Jorge: Well, that seems like a really good place to wrap it up. I'm sure that folks listening in are going to want to learn more. Where can they go? Sunni: Oh, they can go to deepselfdesign.com. And you're also helping me. Remember that I need to create these little tools that... I always create tools and methodologies. So, deepselfdesign.com is definitely the home page. And also, sunnibrown.com has a lot of content on it. They can follow me all over social media too. Jorge: Just not while you're camping. Sunni: Yeah, no way. You'll never see me on that. Yeah, no, that's me and mother earth when that's going on, for sure. Jorge: Well, fantastic. Thank you so much for being on the show. Sunni: Yeah, Thanks for having me. It's nice to see you. Jorge: Yeah, same here.

Sunni Brown   Sunni Brown is a social entrepreneur who has been named one of the “100 Most Creative People in Business” and one of the “10 Most Creative People on Twitter” by Fast Company. She is the best-selling author of Gamestorming and The Doodle Revolution, a keynote speaker, expert meeting facilitator, book coach, and dedicated Zen student. Her TED Talk has drawn more than 1.6 million views and her work has been featured in The New York Times, The New York Post, The Wall Street Journal, Time, and WIRED, as well as being featured twice on CBS Sunday Morning and on The TODAY Show. Her forthcoming book is called Being Confident: In Any Situation and When it Matters Most. Watch the TED talk and learn more about Sunni's work on her website and Instagram account: https://youtu.be/7fx0QcHyrFk  https://sunnibrown.com/ https://www.instagram.com/deepselfdesign/     SUPPORT THE PODCAST   This show is brought to you by the Visual Thinking and Sketchnoting Boot Camp Udemyonline course developed for you by Yuri Malishenko. This unique and highly practical signature course will teach you all the necessary elements that you need to employ visual thinking for your profession. You will learn how to draw simply and use sketching techniques to take visual notes, facilitate group discussions, and communicate your ideas with clarity! By the end of the course, you will have completed a unique do-it-yourself workbook that you will carry around as a reference and inspiration for your future ideas!   With the help of the course, you will boost your thinking and communication skills as well as improve your productivity and effectiveness. By purchasing the course you get lifetime access to almost 7 hours of high-quality video instructions with numerous assignments close to real life.   You can sign up for the course here:   https://www.udemy.com/course/visual-thinking-and-sketchnoting-boot-camp/?

Some simple actions can also work in the same way to concentrate our efforts and ground us. Chewing gum and doodling while you are thinking or speaking has been shown to improve memory and focus. Questions or comments regarding the podcast? Email the show at Podcast@NewtonMG.com or let us know what you think at http://bit.ly/hollinscomment Get the audiobook on Audible at http://bit.ly/brainboostblueprint Show notes and/or episode transcripts are available at https://bit.ly/self-growth-home Peter Hollins is a bestselling author, human psychology researcher, and a dedicated student of the human condition. Visit https://bit.ly/peterhollins to pick up your FREE human nature cheat sheet: 7 surprising psychology studies that will change the way you think. For narration information visit Russell Newton at https://bit.ly/VoW-home For production information visit Newton Media Group LLC at https://bit.ly/newtonmg #Andrade #JackieAndrade #Psychology #StLawrenceUniversity #SunniBrown #MechanicalActions #TheBrainBoostBlueprint #RussellNewton #NewtonMG #PeterHollins #TheScienceofSelf Andrade,Jackie Andrade,Psychology,St Lawrence University,Sunni Brown,Mechanical Actions ,The Brain Boost Blueprint,Russell Newton,NewtonMG,Peter Hollins,The Science of Self

Our capacities are at an all-time low.   Between the pandemic and politics and injustice–not to mention our already overflowing lives and schedules–we have access to far fewer resources for staying calm, beating back anxiety, or holding space for others.   It's in times like these that leaders like you need to know what trips you up--so you can take better care of yourself and continue to lead those who depend on you.   Knowing what trips you up requires a lot of curiosity and deep respect for feeling out of sorts, but so often, the message to keep cool and never let others see you struggle shuts down any curiosity about what is at the root of inner struggle.   Staying calm and showing up with care is exhausting--especially when the world is on fire. You don't want to stop… but it's tough!   Now, I know everyone is used to hearing about “triggers,” but I like to use a different term-- trailhead.   Trailheads, according to the founder of Internal Family Systems Dick Schwartz, are an emotion, image, inner voice, thought, physical sensation, or impulse that, when brought into focus and followed, often leads to a part of our inner system that is in distress.   Understanding our triggers and trailheads is a path to knowing ourselves better and provides us with direction on what we need to create and informs our body of work.   My guest today built an incredible career based on following her triggers and trailheads.   Sunni Brown is a social entrepreneur, best-selling author, story architect, and book coach.   Her TED Talk has drawn more than 1.5 million views and she is the author of Gamestorming and The Doodle Revolution, forthcoming book–Being Confident: In Any Situation and When it Matters Most.   Sunni has developed a company that has a powerful cultural impact on how we learn and work. She has started this movement based on the data offered from her own personal triggers and trailheads.   Sunni has redefined what it means to arrive as she deepens her awareness of her inner system.   Listen to the full episode to hear: What the Doodle Revolution is and why is this type of visual learning so important The impact doing this type of work has had on Sunni personally and what happened when she followed her rage How she integrates Internal Family Systems into her visual and design work And how to get curious and befriend your trailheads and triggers instead of shaming and exiling them   Learn more about Sunni Brown: Deep Self Design Twiiter @SunniBrown Facebook @SunniBrownInk Instagram @SunniBrown Gamestorming: A Playbook for Innovators, Rulebreakers, and Changemakers The Doodle Revolution: Unlock the Power to Think Differently   Learn more about Liisa Sorsa: ThinkLink Graphics Instagram @thinklink_graphics   Learn more about Rebecca: rebeccaching.com Work With Rebecca Sign up for the Weekly Rumble Email   Resources: Internal Family Systems The Unburdened Leader Episode 2: How Self-Leadership Saves You From The Relentless Drive To Succeed with Richard Schwartz

Miniature artist BLAKE GORE exemplifies the old adage: “less is more.” Favoring .15 millimeter nib Pigma Micron pens, Blake creates tiny masterpieces on 2-inch squares — and smaller. Originally from Mississippi but now claiming Virginia as home, Blake discovered his “tiny” expertise a few years ago through consistent repetition and infinite curiosity.  Serving as a career consultant by day, Blake explains how constraints can be a powerful tool to enhance creativity.  As Blake shares: “There’s just so much to do in a square inch.” This episode is a teeny  bit longer than most, but Blake shares a lot of sage advice for anyone contemplating a career change or shift in your art practice. Think of it as free career counseling.  Find Blake: Website: blakegore.com Instagram: blakegore  Mentioned:Pigma Micron .003 pen (try) Big Magic, Elizabeth Gilbert (read) Design Thinking (watch)  Design Your Life, Bill Burnett (read) Graphic facilitator, great example Sunni Brown (see) Alphonso Dunn (See  /  Watch  )Find Me, Kristy Darnell Battani: Website:   https://www.kristybattani.com Instagram:  kristybattaniart Facebook:  kristybattaniart Did you enjoy hearing about Blake's plunge? If so, please take a moment to leave a rating and a comment: https://lovethepodcast.com/artishplunge  Music:"Surf Guitar Madness," Alexis Messier, Licensed by PremiumBeat.comSupport the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/artishplunge)

Litteratur-kanon og agile rimer temmelig dårligt. Men i denne episode gør Ole og Katrine alligevel forsøget og skaber den ultimative agile læseliste. Ole går som sædvanlig struktureret og systematisk til værks med det komplette overblik over enhver tænkelig kategori. Og ikke overraskende har Katrine en mere følelsesladet tilgang, hvor hun fortæller personlige historier om sine bog-anbefalinger. Sådan er mennesker jo heldigvis forskellige

“You already have this constellation internally that is very capable, and you and me and everyone we know. But some of it is burdened. And so it has intense emotional charge that hasn't been released, or it has belief systems that are old and archaic and need to be discarded. But then once they're unburdened, the energy and the natural expression of that aspect of you is just available.” Sunni Brown   In this week’s episode of the Control the Room podcast, I’m delighted to speak with Sunni Brown, founder of Deep Self Design and Sunni Brown Ink. Sunni has been named one of the 100 most creative people in business and one of the 10 most creative people on Twitter by Fast Company. She is a best selling author, speaker, and expert meeting facilitator. We talk about the fallacy of using buzzwords in value statements, Cobra Kai, and the tango of co-facilitation. Listen in to find out what The Karate Kid remake can teach us about the complexity of people.   Show Highlights [8:23] The proven power of taking notes by hand [15:45] What is authenticity? [21:27] The fallacy of buzzwords in value statements [27:38] Cobra Kai, the more naive Karate Kid [36:47] The tango of co-facilitation [45:28] Dusting off your inner mirror   Links | Resources Sunni on LinkedIn Gamestorming: A Playbook for Innovators, Rulebreakers, and Changemakers The Doodle Revolution SB Ink Sunni’s TedTalk, Doodlers Unite!   About the Guest Sunni Brown, founder of Deep Self Design and Sunni Brown Ink, is a best-selling author, speaker, and expert meeting facilitator. Fast Company has included her in “100 Most Creative People in Business” and “10 Most Creative People on Twitter.” Sunni, author of Gamestorming and The Doodle Revolution, leads a worldwide campaign advocating for visual, game, design, and improvisational thinking. She lists empathy, emotional intelligence, collaboration, and effective communication as some of her most sought-after leadership skills.   About Voltage Control Voltage Control is a facilitation agency that helps teams work better together with custom-designed meetings and workshops, both in-person and virtual. Our master facilitators offer trusted guidance and custom coaching to companies who want to transform ineffective meetings, reignite stalled projects, and cut through assumptions. Based in Austin, Voltage Control designs and leads public and private workshops that range from small meetings to large conference-style gatherings.  Share An Episode of Control The Room Apple Podcasts Spotify Android Stitcher Engage Control The Room Voltage Control on the Web Contact Voltage Control   Intro: Welcome to the Control the Room Podcast, a series devoted to the exploration of meeting culture and uncovering cures for the common meeting. Some meetings have tight control, and others are loose. To control the room means achieving outcomes while striking a balance between imposing and removing structure, asserting and distributing power, leaning in and leaning out, all in the service of having a truly magical meeting. This episode is brought to you by MURAL, a digital workspace for visual collaboration. At Voltage Control, we use MURAL to facilitate engaging and productive meetings and workshops from anywhere. MURAL gives teams the means, methods and freedoms to collaborate visually. Use their suite of facilitation superpowers to control the virtual room and solve tough problems as a team with their pre-built templates and guided methods. To see for yourself why companies like IBM, Atlassian, and E* Trade rely on MURAL, start your 30 day trial at mural.co. That’s mural.co Douglas: Today I’m with Sunni Brown, founder of Sunni Brown Ink and the Center of Deep Self Design, where she helps people design their best selves.  Welcome to the show, Sunni. Sunni: Can I call you D? Douglas: As long as you don’t call me Doug— Sunni: Dougie Fresh. Douglas: —I think I’ll be okay with it. Sunni: Okay. I might slip up and call you D. Douglas: D’s perfectly fine. So, how did you get started? How did Sunni Brown become Sunni Brown Ink? Sunni: Well, there were many roads that led to that incarnation, but first was that I could not keep a job. So I was fired many times. So there's, like, the shadow side of it, and then there's the accidental, you know, serendipitous aspects of it, and then there's the origin story, like the conditioning-from-family stuff. So there's all wrapped up in that, you know? But first and foremost, I could not—I got fired a lot. And when I say a lot, I mean definitely over 13 times. And so I was good at getting jobs, but I wasn't good at keeping jobs, which is a hallmark of entrepreneurism, but I didn't realize that at the time. I just thought that everyone was an idiot, and somehow I didn't belong in a cage or whatever. I was very unruly as an employee. It was actually legitimately hard for me to keep a job. Even though I was good, I was insubordinate. And so eventually I just recognized that, oh, I need to be my own boss. I didn't know the boss of what.  But serendipitously and sort of circuitously, I ended up in the Bay Area, which is rife with ideas and opportunity and innovation and potential, and that was a great place for somebody like me. And so I ended up working at The Grove, which is a visual-thinking company, and that was my introduction to visual literacy and visual thinking. I only worked there two years, and then I left and I started my own company, which again, I think—I mean, I think unless you have entrepreneurism in your family, it's almost always accidental. And it’s not— it's accidental and on purpose, but it's not necessarily something—it's, like, something that finds you and you find it, you know? There was a lot of ingredients that made that thing come to life. Douglas: So, tell us about the experience at The Grove. How did that shape what you're doing now? Sunni: It was a great experience in the sense that I was from—like, I had just graduated with a master’s in public policy, which always surprises people. But I was kind of working in the public sector, and I didn't even identify as a creative at that time. I didn't like the term creative. I didn't like the term artistic. I was very pragmatic and practical. And so I was not looking for anything of the sort, in terms of ending up at The Grove, and so I was very skeptical.  So when I was first there, I was just hired as the executive assistant because I had been other people's assistants, but I didn't always mention I’d been fired a lot. So I was very questionable about my job-acquisition ethics. But I did always end up getting jobs. And so eventually I was working for the president, which was David Sibbet, who's, like, the grandfather of visual thinking in the United States. And I was very lucky because I was mentored by him and then eventually mentored by Dave Gray and other kind of like—he wouldn't want me to call him a grandfather, but another godfather, if you will, of visual thinking. Douglas: Sort of a luminary.  Sunni: Yeah, absolutely. So those were events happenstantial. But when I first was at The Grove, I was really skeptical about visual thinking, and I thought it was kind of silly, to be honest. Douglas: So what was the thing that really changed for you? You said you used to think “it was kind of silly.” What really connected the dots for you to realize, like, “Wow, this is something deeper”? Sunni: Well, so, it was like application. I was first a graphic recorder. I don’t know if you know that about me, but I started as a graphic recorder. So a person would go and do live large-scale visualizations of auditory content. And what I observed in the process of learning how to be that, which did come naturally to me—it was a skill that kind of mapped itself onto my own skills readily, which was surprising—but through that process, I recognized that there was a lot of benefits of visual thinking that were happening to me cognitively. So I was remembering content really well. I was organizing it in my mind and on paper really skillfully. I was comprehending it and sort of like getting insights. And when you’re a graphic recorder, you go and you listen to every topic imaginable. So I noticed that my relationship with the content was really rich and really substantive. And I had to attribute it to what I was doing visually because it wasn't like I was special, you know? It was like, “Oh, my god, there's something meaningful to the brain about this way of thinking.” And that's when I became a convert. You know, I was converted. Douglas: That's incredible. It makes me think about something that I've been talking with a lot of folks about lately, this notion of multithreaded meetings, where when we're in MURAL and everyone is Livescribing and at the same time—now, it's certainly not at the level of proficiency and craftsmanship that, you know, you were taken to the job as a graphic recorder—but if we're all visually working in the meeting through MURAL or Mirro or any of these other tools and live capturing what we're hearing, we are unsynthesizing on the fly, we're adding nuance to what we hear because it's our own, like, filter. Even if we are attempting to be purist as possible, something's going to happen there. And when you look across the room of what everyone wrote down, you get this really rich picture of what was said, because it's, like, not only what was said, but this diversity of thought layered on top of it. Sunni: That's cool. That's cool that you're doing that. And absolutely. It makes complete sense, right? It's like this beautiful display of insight that is unique to each person. But it's not a thin relationship. It's a really thick relationship between you and what you're trying to understand. And that's why it's so valuable. And so, then, of course, I became an evangelist about that, and that was in a different chapter of my journey. And I'm really grateful for that, because at this point, I don't do anything without having some visual-thinking component. It’s just how I work and how I think and how I explain things to people. So it just changed everything about how I function. It's really grateful.  Douglas: That's really cool. You know, it also makes me think about active listening and how one of our skills as a facilitator for active listening is paraphrasing. And if you think about it, only one person can paraphrase at one time because if we were all doing that, it would be cacophonous insanity and the whole power of paraphrasing would be diminished because we're all talking over each other. But if someone's Livescribing or if the whole room is Livescribing, everyone's essentially paraphrasing but in a non-auditory sense, right? Sunni: Mm-hmm, yeah. That’s why I teach it to educators and then they teach it to students, because when you're typing—I mean, there's a lot of research about typing versus writing in terms of notetaking, and the research is very clear that when you use visual notetaking instead of typing on your laptop and just trying to, like, bang out as much as you can based on what the teacher’s saying, and similarly with handwriting, the knowledge and the insight is much, much deeper when you're using visual networking because you're synthesizing. So you're actively distilling content on purpose, and you're discerning what to believe and what to put on the page, and then you map it to some kind of icon or image so it comes to life. And so I think that that experience is true for everybody. I mean, I taught it all over the world, and it's not ever been somebody who was like, “No, I prefer my laptop typing in terms of knowledge acquisition.” Like, I’ve never met that person, you know? Douglas: Yeah, absolutely. You know, it also dawned on me. Has the research explored the notion of the spatial aspect of— Sunni: Uh-huh. Douglas: —handwritten notes? Because if you think about typed notes, it’s direct to linear; it’s always left to right; it’s up, down— Sunni: Yeah, totally. Douglas: —it’s squares; it’s edges. Sunni: There’s no structure. Douglas: Yeah. You have that structure is enforced upon you. Sunni: Right. Douglas: And if you're having to think through that structure or just flow through it and even move your hand to the upper right and over here and down, it's not so liberal—it's more liberating, maybe. Sunni: Yeah, that’s right. And Tony Buzan has this great page where he talks about that most kids perceive notetaking as punishment. They refer to it as punishment because that's how it feels, because they're confined and constrained by what you can do. And so when you make the page like a blank space, it's basically a field to plan, and then you can show relationships between things, and you can show spatial content that has an architecture that is inherently not in listing or in writing lists. And so there's, like, nine other things that he—He has a great book, Mind Map that he’s original. But it just describes how it’s like a black-and-white versus a color television. It's just a whole different world. And so it's universally impactful in that way.  So it was easy for me to fall in love with it after I got over myself, you know? I was like, “Oh, shit, this is like a power tool, and nobody knows it.” Like, very few people were interested in it or thought it was worth exploring, and it was sort of something you put on the side, like you go to art class and do that, or you be weird and do that. Like this guy— Douglas: Or these geeks in the corner of the conference just plugging away. Sunni: That’s right. And so I was, like, well, I would like to normalize the shit out of this. And so I was very passionate about it for a long time. And at this point, I've exhausted that passion. But I don't need to have it because other people have it now. So I’m like, “Cool. The torch has been passed, and more power to all of you.” Douglas: And we talked a little bit about that earlier in kind of the preshow chat. We both have books coming out on the non-obvious press, and I was asking you about— Sunni: Mm-hmm. Yeah. You’re writing the one I wanted to write, you old buster. Douglas: You know, you were writing a book on graphic recording. Sunni: Yeah. It was, like, rapid doodling. Yeah.  Douglas: Yeah. And I was curious to hear about that. And you said, “Oh, I wasn't inspired.”  Sunni: Yeah. Douglas: I mean, you were explaining how you kind of lost the flame a bit— Sunni: Right. Douglas: —because you've been doing it for a while— Sunni: Yes. Douglas: —and you know it in and out.  Sunni: Yes.  Douglas: And it's hard to take that kind of new— Sunni: Yeah. Like, the beginner’s mind. It’s such an important state of mind and that my relationship with that is not in that state. So I couldn’t strongarm my way into writing that book. Douglas: And I love how meta that experience for you and going through the conversation with the publisher was in relation to the topic you're actually going to write about, because you talked about not being part of your being or your state right now, the passion right now. And so it must have felt inauthentic. Sunni: It did. Yeah, it did. It felt forced, for sure. And I told him that I could do it. It's like, it's not that I don't have the ability to sit down and type some shit on a page that makes sense. Like, I can do it. But why would I do that? What is the value of a factory? Like, I'm not a factory. And I mean, I can be, but I don't want to be. And I just was like, fuck it. I'll just—you know, he can get mad at me. I mean, I literally woke up that morning. I was like, what if he sued me? I was like, I don't know what he's going to do. No idea what he was going to do. Because he had the whole—all of our books were going to be published in a certain time, remember? Like, all together. So I didn’t— Douglas: And then COVID happened. Sunni: That's right. And I was hoping that he would have considered that and that some of his other off—because you turned yours in on time, did you not?  Douglas: Yes. And— Sunni: Well, that's what I mean. So it didn't affect you. Ugh, god. Douglas: Well, we’re not on time. Sunni: Yeah, but you’re— Douglas: We turned it in, but then there was a lot of edits— Sunni: Right, right. Douglas: —so we’re still hard at work on it. But it’s great.  Sunni: That’s awesome. Douglas: I found working with them to be really fantastic from a— Sunni: Oh, good. Douglas: —get it right—let’s take the time to get it right. Sunni: Uh, yeah. He’s awesome, and he really impressed me that day. And so it was nice to arrive at the topic that I am interested in, I have something to say about. And for me, the most energetic time when I'm learning something is where I'm completely convinced that it's valuable. I have internalized quite a bit of it, but I haven't, like, reverse engineered what it is that I did. So it's like when I was a graphic recorder, I was doing that. I had some training, but I basically trained myself. And then I studied what I was doing. And then I was like, oh, wow, that's really interesting. So for me, it's like that was similar with the deep-self-design stuff. It’s like I've been applying and practicing this stuff for, like, 13 years, and now I'm studying what I'm doing because I want to teach it. So I apparently have these cycles of that. And I was not in that cycle with rapid doodling for problem solving. And I was like, why would I fake this? This is just completely not true for me at all. So thankfully, Rohit was awesome, and he was, like, “Great. I don't want you to write that.” And I almost kissed him through the screen. I was like, “God bless you,” because it was getting painful. Douglas: And what’s the title of the new book? Sunni: Well, I don't know yet exactly. It's still in process, but it's something about the “non-obvious guide to being confident,” or maybe “to enter confidence.” And then the subtitle is “without being arrogant or inauthentic,” something like that. Douglas: Yeah. And I love this notion of confidence is really important when it comes to facilitation. That’s why we both run facilitation practices just to get people experience with the tools and with new ways of doing things. And I also feel that authenticity matters so much. The authenticity allows us to be confident and vice versa. They kind of have this interesting dual purpose or this kind of linked connectedness. Sunni: And I’ve always been confused by, what is authenticity? What does it even mean? And it’s similarly with integrity. So this is just like a sort of weird question philosophically, which is, if you're authentically being manipulative, like you're totally committed to that activity, then that's not inauthentic. It's un-optimal. It's suboptimal for who you're dealing with. But, like, Trump is authentically an asshole. Do you know what I'm saying?  Douglas: Mm-hmm. Yes, I do know what you’re saying. Sunni: So I don’t even know when people describe—because I do often get described as authentic. My mother-in-law—well, she’s family so she could be blowing smoke up my ass—but she’s often like, authenticity is just your engine. And it took me a while. I was like, I don’t even know what she's talking about. But then finally, I came up with this definition, so I want to run it by you and see what you think. So what it is, maybe, is—and I’m sure there are people who’ve done this research, so I'm right on the edge of doing all this great research—which is your internal experience is matched to your external expression. So in other words, what I'm feeling internally—so if I'm feeling disappointment because somebody didn't respond to my text—when I talk to them, I say, “I'm experiencing disappointment about your lack of responding to me, and I'm interpreting it.” So I'm just saying what's true for me. I'm just speaking what— So I think that's what it is. And that's really hard for people, apparently. What do you love about it? Douglas: Well, you know, it's the same thing as like I think people as a society, we have been primed to not disappoint people and to avoid conflict, and so that forces people to be inauthentic— Sunni: That's true. So true. Douglas: —because they’re in pursuit of this vibe or this experience or to avoid. It’s like to minimize your— Sunni: Yeah. Conflict avoidance is huge, yes. Yes.  Douglas: Yeah. And it's the same thing as you get a birthday present you don't like, and you’re, “Oh, I love it.” Sunni: Right. Douglas: It’s like that incongruency of what you're saying and what you’re feeling.  Sunni: Yeah. Right. Douglas: And imagine you walk into a room and you know that you need to pump up that room and get everyone excited.  Sunni: Right. But you're not feeling it yet. Douglas: You're not feeling it. And there’s a pit in your stomach that you are not that is you're not being authentic. Sunni: Well, that, I think, creates anxiety, though, right, because when we’re trying to defy our actual internal experience, that is anxiety provoking. So that’s problematic. And it’s not like I nail it every time, but I definitely have a high fidelity to what my experience is and what my truth is, and then I share that. But I'm not undiplomatic.  So it's interesting what you're saying about the gift. When somebody gives you a gift and you don't really love it, but you're honoring that they gave it to you, that can still be an authentic experience because you may not love it, but you love that they gave something to you, that they thought of you, right? Douglas: Right. So why not? Why is it not customary that we say that? Sunni: I don’t know. I don't think our culture is skillful. I think our culture is really immature in a lot of areas. And communication and conflict is one of them, a big one. Douglas: Yeah. In our facilitation training, we often work with folks to think about how they can tap into their inner self. And you go much deeper into the internal family-system stuff. The stuff that we're saying to do is at least just check in. Sunni: Yeah, totally. Douglas: Does your foot hurt? Sunni: Right. Douglas: Does your stomach hurt? Sunni: Yeah. Connecting to your body. Douglas: Does it feel hot? Is there a tension in the room? Are you bringing that tension? Are you noticing it? Is that tension impacting you? Sunni: Yeah. Right. That’s so helpful, though, Douglas. People are so oblivious to their own states. And that is also anxiety provoking. When you’re divorced from your own experience, how could you not be stressed? How could that not be stressful?  To your point, I do go deep, and I love that. But it's also, what you're doing with people, that's a revelation for a lot of people. Just like, oh, oh, I do. I am hungry. Oh, I have no idea. Or oh, I am disappointed that I wasn't seated with my friend. You know, just anything. And then I often do at the beginning of sessions, I will have them name something that's true for them. And just that simple act of checking in, becoming aware of your state and yourself, and then declaring it, it's like returning to yourself just for a second. And it brings you into the present moment, and it's really helpful. Douglas: Yeah. Any time we can have some sort of presence-ing activity in an opener, it's really powerful. Sunni: I know. And you know what’s funny, talking about authenticity? I think I was with you one time when we—I have people often draw, like, just in virtual facilitation, they’ll draw some emotion on a sticky note. And I will just ask, “What is your state of emotion right now?” and then draw an emoji. And then, you know, the ones that are permissible, right—there's permissible, social, emotional experiences. So it'll be like, the craziest one might be that someone's frazzled, but they would never be like, “I’m depressed,” you know? Douglas: Mm-hmm. Sunni: No— So there's social norms in that. And again, it’s like, is that inauthenticity, or is that caretaking of the group, or is that not even knowing maybe how you feel? It's like, just, it’s complex, you know? Douglas: Yeah. It’s interesting because if you're intentionally trying to deceive you being authentic—there's different levels, are you being authentic to yourself? There is intention. And then someone else could perceive you as being inauthentic because you're like, wait, he's totally lying to me. So, yeah. Sunni: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That’s right. Douglas: And integrity, I think, is easier for me because I always define integrity—because it shows up on so many companies’ values statements, and I don’t even know—I think most of the time they don’t think about what it means. It’s like, oh, yeah. It needs to say integrity. Sunni: They don’t even know what it is. Douglas: Resourcefulness.  Sunni: They’re like, everybody wants that, for sure. Douglas: Integrity is just you do what you say you’re going to do. Sunni: Say you’re going to do? So, okay, what if I say I’m going to throw water on Chet when he’s sleeping?  Douglas: That’s integrity. Sunni: And then I do it. Douglas: You follow through. But if you say you’re going to build a wall and you don’t build a wall, that’s not a lot of integrity. Sunni: But that means that Hitler had integrity, right? So it’s like if you say—and it’s controversial, but based on that definition, that would mean that, that he followed through. Douglas: Yeah. But that’s the thing. I think people that take these words and they glorify them as being good qualities. Sunni: Yeah, they don’t mean anything. Douglas: And sure, if you have good intent—like, you had to combine them with other things because—that segues nicely into something that we were getting excited about during the preshow chat. And this is just good versus bad, and in binary thinking, how dangerous it is. Sunni: Yeah, it is. It's one of the thinking distortions. So there's a really great list of thinking distortions that has, like, eight on it. But this also segues into Zen practice, which is central to my entire life. But one of the thinking distortions is making things binary. And it's so tempting. And I do it even though I have a devout practice around not doing that, where I'm seeing the nuance. It's still, it's the brain. Like, we are wired to summarize very quickly for survival purposes. It’s not like we’re bad if we do that. That is just biologically, it's like a biological imperative. And so in order to soften that inclination to just label somebody as, like, stupid or smart; or a desirable, undesirable; or deplorable and undeplorable; or whatever, we have to practice. You actually have to activate the antithesis of that way of thinking by purposefully seeing the shades of gray. It is a practice, and it's super powerful.  And so I like that you're interested in that, too, because as facilitators, I gamify this stuff. I try to teach people that in gaming. That one in particular always blows people's domepieces off because they're like, “Oh, my god, I completely thought my boss was a jerk just by definition.” And I'm like, “Did you consider all the other facets of your boss?” And they're like, “No.” I'm like, “Why would you? It’s not a practice you have.” Douglas: You know, I think that it applies across the spectrum, too, right? A lot of times, especially folks that are brand new to facilitation, they're so curious. Like, how do I deal with difficult people? And that, first of all, is binary thinking. The fact that you’re asking that question means that you’re thinking there’s non-difficult people and difficult people. Sunni: You’re assuming. Right, yeah. And it’s funny because when I started facilitating, I never asked that question. I wasn’t worried about it. And I think that has to do with conflict avoidance, too. So if people are asking that question, underneath it is a fear that they're going to have to deal with conflict or perceived conflict. And conflict avoidance was not my family strategy. So I usually turn toward it and address it, depending on the depth of the wounding or whatever. But it's like, it's not fearful for me.  And also, I haven't encountered these “difficult” people. I know there are people that can talk over other people, and there are people that want to ask a lot of questions and sort of can derail some of your activities. I know there are people that try to sidle up to you and make alliances with a facilitator. But I don't think of them as difficult. I think of them as people, just human people. Douglas: What about the people that are desperately trying to help you? Sunni: Oh, I love those people. It’s always—that's so, so sweet because it’s like, how do you say “No, thank you. You're going to make it way harder on me if you try to help”? Right? Because when I was a graphic recorder, I used to always carry these big walls, you know? You got to carry these 32-square-foot walls everywhere, and you would not believe how many people tried to help me because I was 5’5” and they’d be like, “She can’t carry that up four flights of stairs.” And I’d be like, “It weighs two pounds. It's not hard.” But I would always just very gently be like, “No. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your interest. But it’ll go smoothly if I just do it because I've done it so many times.” But there are all those types in meetings.  But to your point, what does it mean if they're difficult? Maybe they just need something, and they need you to be aware of it. And you just look for the need, the underlying need, and see if you can support that or not. Douglas: You know, I really liked Michael Wilkinson's framing on this. I think in his book—I forgot. It’s so many secrets of facilitation. I can't even remember how many there are. There might be, like, let’s just say, so many secrets of facilitation. Sunni: They’re secrets? Douglas: Yeah, well, he's unveiling the secrets of facilitation. Sunni: What?! The secret teachings? Douglas: Yeah. It’s amazing. So, his whole thing is dysfunctions. How do you deal with dysfunctions? And so I liked that framing a lot better because there’s all sorts of them, and how do we think about addressing them as they happen? And the individuals aren’t dysfunctional. Sunni: Right.  Douglas: Maybe eliciting a dysfunction at that moment. Sunni: Yeah. Or like a malfunction, yeah. Douglas: Yeah.  Sunni: You know? A little breakdown.  Douglas: A little short circuit, which is an amazing— Sunni: And I have those, too, you know? Douglas: I mean, when are they going to come out with, like—so they've done E.T. with Stranger Things. They've done Karate Kid with Cobra Kai. When are they going to come out with the Short Circuit, like the modern Short Circuit? Sunni: Oh, dude. How can they top the original? It’d be so hard. It’d be impossible. Oh, my god, I’ve got to watch that tonight. It’s Friday night. Thank you for picking my movie. Douglas: There’s something about Cobra Kai that I was— Sunni: Dude. Douglas: —thinking about earlier. But— Sunni: Oh, my god, yes. Douglas: —I think it’s just this notion of this good versus bad. Sunni: Yes. Douglas: You know, I was thinking about that when we were talking about good versus bad.  Sunni: Yeah. Douglas: And it's really interesting to me how the more naive Karate Ki— even though, like, look, let's face it. Cobra Kai is like a series that is not really any kind of profound wisdom. But it's funny that the more naive version of Karate Kid was, like, Danny’s just like, and Miyagi, are just like the source of good. Sunni: Yes. Douglas: And now, the more modern portrayal, as they're older, they're much more complex, you know? Sunni: Right. Douglas: They’re both doing things that you’re like, why? Sunni: And that’s the truth about people is that we’re complex. And that’s what people don't want to grapple with, because it requires an awareness of things that can't be tucked into a box really neatly. And the brain, it does not like that. The brain is—I mean, sometimes it's stimulated by it. But ultimately, it needs a summation. And so it's like that's why you have all these characters that are easy to hate, like in Inspector Gadget. What’s the dude, Claw? He doesn't even have a face. He's just the bad dude behind the desk, without a face. And then when you look at comic books or graphic novels, they always go into their backstory. I mean, Black Panther, they nailed it by making those characters so complex. That, to me, felt relatable. So it's, like, so fascinating how that starts from storytelling when you're five, you know? Even Star Wars. But I love Star Wars because, dude, I don’t— Douglas: Hero’s journey.  Sunni: Yeah. Douglas: I mean, you kind of can’t go wrong with the hero’s journey. In fact, that's something Daniel Stillman and I talk about a lot, using that in your workshop design. Sunni: Mm-hmm. Hm, interesting. Like, taking each person through some transformational experience related to the content? Douglas: Yeah. Basically, from start to finish, we're going to go through this hero's journey, where we go into the abyss and come out together with the elixir. Sunni: Oh, that makes me just want to weep, it's so beautiful. And it's like even if you don't choose—because part of the journey, you have to answer the call. So life will probably summon you. But if you don't answer, then you don't go on the journey, you know? And I've always been fascinated by people that are not available for the journey, because it's just not safe. I mean, it's not, by definition. But for me, it's always worth it to step into challenges. And I think that is also a quality of entrepreneurs, is that we are kind of thrilled by freaking ourselves out. Douglas: Uncertainty, ambiguity. Sunni: Yes, dude. We’re like those people that like it. We're kind of into it. And over the years, I've had to temper my own instinct to do that. And I know you have too. I mean, I've been a workaholic for a long time, and I'm, like, in recovery. But it's also just because I like being challenged, and I like not knowing everything, because it's such a thrill when you get some new insight or knowledge. It's like, I feel like I'm like the Hulk. I'm like, whoa, I’m growing muscularly. I'm huge. But you could get addicted to that, so it's like every now and then I'm always, like, on a weekend I'm like, girl, you don't need to, like, read 40 sutras this weekend. You can just be an idiot, just be an idiot, you know? Douglas: Yeah. Just give the brain a little break. Go on a nature bath. Sunni: Yeah! You know, I told you I’m going to install my hillbilly hot tub. Is that okay to s—? You got—I know. I want— Douglas: My sauna’s getting installed right as we speak. Sunni: Oh, dude. That’s amazing.  Douglas: It’s important.  Sunni: It is.  Douglas: Yeah. As you were talking about this, some metaphors were coming up for me, around we're taking people through this risky kind of thing, and there is risk that you're taking. And it reminded me of rapids, right?  Sunni: Yeah.  Douglas: So whitewater rafting. And you always hire the guide so that you don't go kill yourself.  Sunni: Yeah. Douglas: Facilitation’s like the mental equivalent of the whitewater-rafting guy.  Sunni: Yeah, yeah. Douglas: If we're going to go on this risky mental journey, let’s make sure we have a shepherd or that guide to make sure that—we're going to wear helmets, of course, but we're going to make sure that we don't bash our heads on the rocks even if we have helmets on. Sunni: Well, and that’s why the facilitator is so important, because they have to trust you completely. And I don't mean they have to, meaning you can't conduct a meeting, but for a successful experience, they really need to trust you. And you, the way that I think about it, is that I demonstrate how I want them to be. So if something goes wrong, I will name that and own that, you know? If I don't have the answer to something, I will not pretend that I do. If I want somebody to collaborate with me, then I will invite them to come and collaborate with me, and then mimic that in their group. So it makes you more human in some ways if you're—I mean, there's every kind of facilitator under the sun, so it’s not like there's some gold standard or whatever. That's just my style, is I want them to understand that perfection is not what we're up to. We’re up to being humans. And so— Douglas: I think that’s authenticity, right there. Sunni: Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. But I could be being, like, what if I had an inner—because I have an inner perfectionist. I'm actually working with this part of me that is authentically perfectionistic, you know?  Douglas: Well, I meant the vulnerability you're talking about. Like, if you don't know the answer— Sunni: Yeah, let’s just name it. Douglas: —we’re going to talk about it. Sunni: Yeah. And I've been making so many bloopers. Douglas, you would not believe the bloopers on the United Nations project, because I'm learning as I go. And I told you that. It’s like we're leaping, and we're building our parachute while we’re falling. And the client’s not that aware of it. That is an internal awareness that Jessie and I both have. But for me, it's like, oh, my god—it's like I'm back to being a newbie, like, the stuff I do. Like, the other day, I just flung everyone into breakout rooms, just because I impulsively pushed the fucking button. It was like, what do you do? And then— Douglas: Well, that’s the world we’re in.  Sunni: I know. It’s so crazy. Douglas: It's going to happen, even—I've run the breakout rooms in Zoom daily— Sunni: Yeah, I bet. Douglas: —and I still hit things accidentally. And that’s partially because—here’s the thing. I don’t know if you've seen the book, The Design of Everyday Things.  Sunni: Uh-uh. Douglas: Oh, man. It's a classic design book. So great. Sunni: I know. I’ve heard of it. I don’t have it, though. Douglas: In fact, the doors that are poorly designed are actually named Norman Doors, after the author. Sunni: Aw. Douglas: Well, because he points out, don’t blame yourself because the door is poorly designed. Sunni: Right. Douglas: If there is a giant—like, you ever gone up to a door that has a giant handle on it? Sunni: Uh-huh. Douglas: And you’re supposed to just grab the handle and pull it toward you? Sunni: Yeah. Douglas: And you pull it, and then it doesn’t move because you’re supposed to push it? Sunni: Push it. Douglas: So on the push side, there needs to be a push plate, and on the pull side, there needs to be a pull handle. Sunni: Right. Like, you’re not the dope here. Douglas: Yeah. Exactly. You’re not the dope. He said, never blame yourself for bad design if someone designed it poorly. And so that's what everyone does. Like, my mom always tells me, I don't understand computers. I’m like, well, that means they didn’t design it so that you could understand it. Sunni: Aww, that’s very nice of you to say that. Because it does make people feel stupid when they can’t do things. Douglas: Yes. People always say they’re stupid when it’s like, man, someone did a poor job of getting you there. Sunni: Yeah. Douglas: And I think Zoom breakout rooms have a lot of room for growth. Sunni: Yeah. And I think they're working on that, and I know they're making new features and changes to how it— Douglas: Yeah. Sunni: Like, they just did the Gallery View. You can shuffle it around. Douglas: That’s right. Sunni: That's another thing, too, though. It's like all these new things constantly coming, so there's capabilities you don’t even know you have, and then there's some that fall off. So it's just a constantly changing environment. And so I've just made mistakes left and right, and then I remember what it's like to be a beginner. And thankfully, I have this foundational practice and that confidence about facilitating and making mistakes and just knowing that it's okay. But if I were a beginning facilitator, it would be so stressful. It’d be super stressful to try to step in. Douglas: Absolutely. And the thing is, you just found—in a way it's almost like fracking—you hit the depths of what's possible. You would become an expert in facilitation. And then this new fissure opened up because of remote, and now there is a new area to play in and a new area to fail in. But at the same time, you weren't building a parachute while falling. You know what I mean? You were in the squirrel suit, already at terminal velocity— Sunni: I was already in my gear. Douglas: And as you’re floating down, you’re like, “Oh, let me assemble a parachute, because then I’m going to float down even slower.” Sunni: That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. Douglas: So I think there’s something beautiful in that, right, because you can lean on the experience you have to then go into new, uncharted territory. Sunni: Yes. Douglas: And that uncertainty, while it’s scary, also leads to a lot of opportunity. Sunni: Totally. And that's why I love facilitating with expert facilitators, because we all know that. A lot of the stuff, a lot of the terrors and the weird delusions and the distorted ideas you have about the practice when you first go are gone. They're just burnt off by experience. And then, so, it's just, there's a lot of joy for me, because I online I always have a co-facilitator if it's longer than, like, an hour and a half. You know what I mean? And I love trusting the capacity of that person, because it's crazy, because the other day, Jessie and I were like, I could tell she was looking for something in the back end of Zoom, and I could see from her body language that she had no clue where it was. And so I just started talking. I was like, “Here's why we're doing this, and this is the value of it. And I ask the people questions.” And I was just doing it to fill in the gaps so that she could—because I looked at her again. I was like, “Okay, she found it,” and now I'm going to close. But that's like a tango that we have because we work together so often. But it's just, it’s very sweet. It's a very sweet process to have. Douglas: What you're describing is so much harder in the virtual space, too, because of the signals we have. When we're in the room together— Sunni: Totally. Douglas: —and vibing, whether it's Daniel or John or Eli or any of the facilitators I’ve facilitated with quite often, it's like you can feel it almost in the air. Like, we don’t even have to make eye contact necessarily. It's just like, “Oh, I know they're still riffing.” And then, you know, it's almost like when you can tell someone's looking at you. So when they're done looking at you and ready, like, better if you just got the— So I feel like what you were doing is a pro move to be tearing through the tools and trying to revisit the vague signals we do have in virtual. Sunni: Yeah. It's so funny you're talking about this because Jessie and I were talking about this this morning. When you're asking about my origin story, so part of my early conditioning had to do with hyper vigilance. So I was very aware of what emotional state people were in and what their next move was likely to be. So I'm really attentive to body language. And that, for me, is still very available in Zoom. I mean, I can tell—and Jessie was making fun of me this morning. She was like, “Oh, my god, girl. You name people that they have a question before they have even unmuted themselves or even know they have a question.” But it's because I'm watching their body language. When people are about to ask a question, they do things. They move forward. They lean toward the camera. They kind of, like, gesture in these bizarre ways. Sometimes they stop and start. And so for me, that visual and gestural information is still there. So I’d just be like, “Hey, Frank, it seems like you want to say something.” And then Jessie was just like—she was making fun of me, because she was like, “That is so weird that you—” but I’m so sensitive to it, you know? And I thought that was normal, but then I realized, oh, yeah, no, that's my trauma. Basically, that’s the gift of trauma. Douglas: You know, that was one of the things that really jumped out to me when you were telling me about internal family systems and giving me the whole low-down there, and I found it really fascinating that things that were previously traumatic or these—I can't remember the Internal Family Systems parlance—but these guards, these managers, that were created because of old wounds are part of yourself. And they can be, they can sometimes be disruptive, but they can also serve a function. They can give you superpowers that other people don't have. Sunni: Yeah, they do. Absolutely. They’re 100 percent really powerful. And that’s one of mine is I have a manager who's very watchful, and so it is a super power. Now, the problem is I can't turn it off. So, like, if I’m, for example, in mediating between my husband and his mom, it will kind of be exhausting for me because I know that they're going to have an argument 10 minutes before they do, because I can see where the tones are changing and what the language, how the language is changing. I can see them turning, body language turning away from each other. I can see a color of their skin gets redder and redder. But they're not, like you were saying, people are not aware of what's happening internally to them. So they're not yet aware. So for both of them, the energy, the intensity has to be a certain threshold before they even notice. But for me, I notice it way early. And it's exhausting because I'll just be like, “Dudes. I'm going to walk out now. Five, four, three, two. Okay, your mom's pissed.” It’s funny. But as a facilitator, it's really useful. It's a really useful skill, and I'm grateful for the spontaneous—like, going back to IFS, the spontaneous creation of these skill sets based on—and it’s not always from trauma. It’s just from navigating life, you know? But there is a spontaneous creativity that the body and the mind does to meet whatever circumstances are there. And that's why I have such gratitude for how wise and skillful all of our systems are. So even if a person is “difficult,” I respect that there's some aspect of what they're doing that is a protective function and that that's quite healthy for their system. So I just have a deeper, a kind of an abiding appreciation for malfunctions and for strategies that people have, because I'm like, dude, I am the same way. We're designed the same way. I get it, you know? And I just respect it. Douglas: Yeah. It's amazing to see what strategies other people use and which ones that we can authentically borrow versus things that maybe I don't want to touch that. Maybe that's not such a good tool for me. Sunni: Yeah. I wonder how many you can borrow, because there are qualities that other people have that I wish that I had. And I kind of admire that they have them, but I don't personally have them myself. Like, what example? Douglas: From an internal family systems, I doubt there's much borrowing we can do unless we do some deep, long work. I was thinking more from the surface level of, that's an interesting strategy. Ooh, I like the way that they're asking folks to… Who haven't we heard from next? I think there’s a lot of fun little prompts and questions and things that we can borrow from folks. But it's critical that we do it authentically. If it doesn't feel comfortable in your belly when you're saying it, maybe leave that one at home. Sunni: Right. Aww, I know. It's so insightful what you're saying about you can't really borrow them, because I always think about coaches and coaching and why would that work in terms of if you're trying to say, like, if somebody hires a coach to be more assertive, it's like, well, you could hack it. You could put on an assertive demeanor. But it wouldn't really be born of your essence. You wouldn't really be the source of it. So I always think it's interesting, the methods that coaches use to attempt to get great things from people. For me, it has to be natural for them. So you just want to unlock their natural strength. Douglas: I like that word natural. I think that's very similar to how I think about authentic, is of being natural.  I want to talk about the coaching thing for a second, though. You know, I think part of it is people not taking a robust definition of greatness. They've found some thing that they think is greatness, and then they're glommed onto it, and they're like, teach me how to… I think you were talking about, like, being more confident or whatnot. But what if people more generally said, “I just want to improve. And what does that mean to improve? And let's explore things more openly.” I think that kind of coaching can be really, really interesting, right? Let's see how I can explore where my strengths create weakness. In some of the coaching work I've done, it's about how I figure out what I'm not good at, and then is it something that I can improve on? And if not, if it's truly a deep-seeded weakness, let's delegate that. But let's let that be a part of my self-awareness. Coaching should be about becoming more self-aware. Sunni: That's right. And unburdening some of the parts of you, because you already have this constellation internally that is very capable, and you and me and everyone we know. But some of it is burdened. And so it has intense emotional charge that hasn't been released or it has belief systems that are old and archaic and need to be discarded. But then once they're unburdened, the energy and the natural expression of that aspect of you is just available, which is crazy because that's what Zen practice is all about too. Zen practice, there's the metaphor they use is like wiping dust from a mirror. So your mirror is already there. You can't change that. It's just who you are. It's part of the natural emergence of an incarnated being, is that you're like a reflection of the universe. And it just has dust on it. So the practice is about getting some of the dust off.  There was a big reversal of the way I grew up, which was, like, oh, you're born in sin. And I was like, wait. So I'm just fundamentally fucked up? I was like, oh, I can't relate to that. But people do, you know? And so I think the approach of assuming beauty in the person and then just helping them release some of their inherent capacity is just a really benevolent way to approach coaching. But it's not that common. Douglas: Sunni, it’s been a pleasure chatting with you today. And just want to give you a chance to kind of close out, leave anyone with any final thoughts. Or I know that we've probably got a lot of folks that are really interested in how they can find out more about your work and what you do. So anything they should keep in mind? Sunni: Well, I was thinking about your audience. They’re mostly facilitators, right? They’re people who are interested in that practice? Douglas: Yeah. Our listeners are facilitators as well as leaders that are interested in these techniques and how they can improve their meetings and their employee experience. I think, generally, the audience are growing into just a general appreciation of how meetings could be better. Sunni: Yeah. You're so good at what you do. If people are interested in a lot—I mean, you and I covered so many great topics that I'm like, “Oh, is our time up? It's so sad.” But deepselfdesign.com has some good resources on it. And my other business that is the original venture is sunnibrownink.com. Those are both resources. And you can find me all over the Internet. Outro: Thanks for joining me for another episode of Control the Room. Don't forget to subscribe to receive updates when new episodes are released. If you want more, head over to our blog, where I post weekly articles and resources about working better together, voltagecontrol.com.

Nineteen80 is a management consultancy and creative agency focused on transitions. As a Xennial, I was born in an analog world, and came of age in a digital world. As the world transitions from command and control to distributed teams, analog to digital, concentrated power and wealth to distributed knowledge of the crowd, Nineteen80 seeks to bring the best of both worlds together to create something better.In this episode, I talked to Sunni Brown, Founder at Sunni Brown Ink and the Center for Deep Self Design.Bio About The GuestSunni founded the SB Ink creative consultancy over 12 years ago and she continues to grow and lead it. She is a best-selling author, global public speaker, expert meeting facilitator and Deep Self Design™ coach. She was named one of the “100 Most Creative People in Business” and one of the “10 Most Creative People on Twitter” by Fast Company. Her team has designed and led hundreds of group experiences in diverse industries and she is a veteran public speaker, having delivered countless presentations and “playnotes” in environments around the world. Sunni is the best-selling author of Gamestorming and The Doodle Revolution and she leads a worldwide campaign advocating for multi-sensory learning and deploys those techniques to teach sought-after leadership skills like emotional intelligence, effective communication, unlearning, rapid innovation and group collaboration.Episode SummaryIn this episode, Sunni and I spoke about...The Spiritual Side to Deep Self DesignEMDR TherapyZen, mindfulness, and connecting with yourselfThe backwards steps Connect With Sunni BrownWebsite - http://sunnibrown.comLinkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sunnibrownTwitter - https://twitter.com/SunniBrownInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/sunnibrownSunni's Ted Talk - https://www.ted.com/speakers/sunni_brownConnect With Daniel HoangMy website - http://www.danielhoang.comMy company - http://www.nineteen80.coFollow me on Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/danielhoangFollow me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/danielhoangJoin The Nineteen80 Membership - https://www.nineteen80.io/signupThank you for listening. Engage with me, join my community by texting (206) 279-6694Date recorded August 13th, 2020Music from https://artlist.io/This podcast was edited by Naya Moss and Namos StudioSupport the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/danielhoang)

Perhaps we are all on a shared journey of coming to more fully know ourselves and function from a place of truth. If that's true, then knowing the name and work of a brilliant Deep Self Designer ain't a bad thing. Sunni Brown is a best selling author, a creator, a speaker, a long time student of American Zen, a lover of Internal Family Systems, and an expert in visual thinking. Her TED Talk has received more than 1.5 million views. Sunni is also super funny and generally just fascinating to listen to. In this episode, Sunni tells us about the process of internal exploration and the roles of readiness, fear and pain in personal evolution.

Sunni Brown is an inspiration. She helped me exercise my wierd. After many years of trading messages, I'm proud to share our conversation with you today. One of my favorite quotes from Sunni I included in my book “If you can’t change your mind, it’s very hard to change your life. Human beings that are mentally agile, those who can and will unstick—from an ongoing challenge, a mindset, a limiting belief, or a point of view—are more likely to flourish. Period.”

Sunni Brown is an inspiration. She helped me exercise my wierd. After many years of trading messages, I'm proud to share our conversation with you today. One of my favorite quotes from Sunni I included in my book “If you can’t change your mind, it’s very hard to change your life. Human beings that are mentally agile, those who can and will unstick—from an ongoing challenge, a mindset, a limiting belief, or a point of view—are more likely to flourish. Period.”

Melaine D'Cruze has been a visual thinker all her life. Through her school years and her career, she always took visual notes and doodled to focus and to remember ideas. She didn't know that there was actually a professional field for visual thinking until one day when she discovered the TED Talk from Sunni Brown, Doodlers, unite! Melaine read the book, subscribed to an online course from the Doodle Institute, read several books and through that became a very good sketch note taker. She even got invited by the Harvard Business School to publish a blog post after visualizing one of their online courses. However, her main application for visualization and visual thinking is not at work. Her main application is in the field of educating her kids. Melaine has two amazing boys, who are much faster understanding and accessing information when seeing them visually. She started to visualize ideas together with the boys and through that, they could memorize the content easily. The other boy stammered from time to time and with visual cue cards she could remind her boy to slow down whenever they stumbled. Today both boys are doing fine, and we'll talk more about ideas on how we can educate kids visually. In summary, this episode is a statement to believe in yourself, follow your passion and let no one take you down. I hope you enjoy this episode with Melaine D'Cruze from Karachi, Pakistan.

This is the second part of the interview with Sunni Brown record on the 18th of September 2018: In the first part of this episode, you learnt a lot about Sunnis Brown's life and her early years as an entrepreneur from strangling to make a living to be one of the top speaker and best-selling author in the field. We followed her journey step by step, from working for the Grove, one of the first visual thinking consultancies on the planet before she moved to Austin, Texas where she started her own business. In the second episode, We find out more about her work as an author and why riding a dragon and writing a book is a similar challenge. We talk about the serendipity that she got invited to TED2011 and how she prepared 4 months for the 6 minutes that has inspired more than 1.4 million people. We compare the skill of graphic recording with sketch noting, do a “quickly ask round” and brainstorm together about the upcoming keynote at VizConf 2018. We hear about her experience at TED, her keynote at VizConf 2018 and her work on the upcoming book DEEP SELF DESIGN™ that helps you to reach your goals in life. Enjoy!

In this new episode, you will learn a lot about Sunnis Brown’s life and her early years as an entrepreneur from strangling to make a living to be one of the top speaker and best-selling author in the field. For example, when Sunni was quite young she wrote to her mum a letter and told her that she either wants to become a doctor or - if that doesn’t work the president of the united states. This might seem like a funny kids letter but this letter has guided Sunni through her life. Not growing up in a privileged family she had to believe in herself and work hard for her success. This guiding principle actually led her to her upcoming book called DEEP SELF DESIGN™ which is based on the idea that you are in control of your own life. In fact, we all are in control of our own lives and our mind is often the biggest obstacle why we don’t reach our full life potential. We follow her journey step by step, from working for the Grove, one of the first visual thinking consultancies on the planet before she moved to Austin, Texas where she started her own business. We find out more about her work as an author and why riding a dragon and writing a book is a similar challenge. We talk about the serendipity that she got invited to TED2011 and how she prepared 4 months for the 6 minutes that has inspired more than 1.4 million people. We compare the skill of graphic recording with sketch noting, do a “quickly ask round” and brainstorm together about the upcoming keynote at VizConf 2018. By the way it on the 13th of October and the tickets selling out quickly. We recorded more than 90 minutes and therefore cut this recording into two episodes. This one will start from her childhood through her first book “Gamestorming” and her second book “The Doodle Revolution” and is a great inspiration for any creator or entrepreneur. In the second episode, we hear about her experience at TED, her keynote at VizConf 2018 and her work on the upcoming book DEEP SELF DESIGN™ that helps you to reach your goals in life. Enjoy this episode with Sunni Brown record on the 18th of September 2018.

  Paul Szauter Today we have scientist and entrepreneur Paul Szauter as our guest. Listeners are going to be interested in the DNA Discovery that Paul and his team have made as well as how that discovery is disrupting the centuries-old industry of horse breeding. Listen is as Paul shares the challenges and plans they have as well as hear his thoughts on what it takes to be a scientist…. You might be surprised! Show Notes Human Genome Project National DNA Day DNA Day 23andMe EquiSeq, Inc. Book Recommendations: Game Storming, by Dave Gray, Sunni Brown, and James Macanufo Ready Player One: A Novel, by Ernest Cline STEM Hero and Rockstar Gregor Mendel Neil deGrasse Tyson Resources One Million Cups - Albuquerque Contact Information: Paul Szauter Pszauter@gmail.com  

  Paul Szauter Today we have scientist and entrepreneur Paul Szauter as our guest. Listeners are going to be interested in the DNA Discovery that Paul and his team have made as well as how that discovery is disrupting the centuries-old industry of horse breeding. Listen is as Paul shares the challenges and plans they have as well as hear his thoughts on what it takes to be a scientist…. You might be surprised! Show Notes Human Genome Project National DNA Day DNA Day 23andMe EquiSeq, Inc. Book Recommendations: Game Storming, by Dave Gray, Sunni Brown, and James Macanufo Ready Player One: A Novel, by Ernest Cline STEM Hero and Rockstar Gregor Mendel Neil deGrasse Tyson Resources One Million Cups - Albuquerque Contact Information: Paul Szauter Pszauter@gmail.com  

Dan Fine is a customer experience professional who has worked on brands like NAB, Telstra, Sensis, and Vic Roads. In this episode you’ll learn how to define the role of a customer experience professional, plus you’ll discover many tips and resources that you can use on your journey to becoming a great CX pro.   Resources mentioned: Service Design Show (podcast). Why Service Design Thinking (podcast). This is HCD (podcast). General Assembly (course). Academy XI (course). Customer Experience Professionals Association This is Service Design Thinking (book), by Marc Stickdorn and Jakob Schneider. The Field Guide to Human-Centered Design (book), by IDEO. The Ultimate Question 2.0 (book), by Fred Reichheld and Rob Markey. Beyond the Ultimate Question (book), by Bob Hayes. Bulletproof Radio (podcast), with Dave Asprey. Influencers (podcast), by Jon Levy Closing the Delivery Gap (research), by Bain and Company   Additional Resources: The Ten Principles Behind Great Customer Experiences (book), by Matt Watkinson. Outside In: The Power of Putting Customers at the Center of Your Business (book), by Harley Manning and Kerry Bodine. Gamestorming: A Playbook for Innovators, Rulebreakers, and Changemakers (book), by Dave Gray, Sunni Brown, and James Macanufo. Xplaner (website). Strategyzer (website). Service Design Tools (website).   Key takeaways (starts at 30:35): Any CX initiative needs to be driven by the CEO. Present ideas with 51% confidence but 100% conviction. Treat survey data like an asset. Close the delivery gap between what you think you know and what the customer experiences.

The remarkable Jean-Louis Racine, head of the World Bank's infoDev Climate Technology Program, joins me today to discuss how he came to apply design thinking in his work, doing design thinking in large organizations, leading design teams, and stakeholder-centered design. Before working at the World Bank, Jean-Louis earned a Ph.D. in robotics engineering and worked as an engineer. This allows him to bring a depth of experience to applying and thinking about design thinking. As you'll hear in our conversation, one of the things that Jean-Louis appreciates most about design thinking is that it forces you to be “solution-agnostic,” as he puts it, and encourages redefining the problem into something that doesn't include the solution. As an example, he shares a story of how this process brought him to the surprising solution of needing many entrepreneurs to fail faster. Many large organizations aren't very risk-tolerant, but design thinking de-risks a project because it's about testing hypotheses. Its rigor and evidence-based principles make it easier to create something that will actually work. Jean-Louis points out that framing the value of design thinking in these terms can be more successful for large organizations than talking about creativity, for example. Jean-Louis points out the need for trust in learning what the design thinking cycle is and how it works. It's something that requires someone to experience it, he explains, which makes things tricky when people aren't inclined to trust you through the process. The solution when people don't embrace the new technique from the beginning is to simply struggle through it. We'll also talk about techniques to get people to give feedback without as many ego issues, the difference between critique and criticism, what it means to design for stakeholders, some fantastic books and resources that will be useful for listeners interested in the various subjects we cover in this discussion, and much more. I hope you'll enjoy this conversation as much as I did!   Learn More About Today's Guest Jean-Louis Racine infoDev Climate Technology Program   In This Episode [01:34] — Jean-Louis starts off the conversation by telling listeners a bit about himself and his background. He also addresses how he came into design thinking and what the early journey was like for him. [04:36] — We hear the story of the first time that Jean-Louis applied design thinking in his work at the World Bank. [07:41] — When you don't really know what you're doing, you make mistakes, Jean-Louis points out. That's how you learn. [08:22] — What was one of Jean-Louis' mistakes that turned out to be a useful learning experiences? [12:01] — Jean-Louis talks about what has helped him with shaping design thinking to individual contexts. [13:07] — Jean-Louis digs into how things have changed over time in terms of the way organizations or colleagues have responded. [17:56] — We hear more about the ClimateLaunchpad program and how design thinking was applied there. [21:51] — Jean-Louis describes how the teams in the ClimateLaunchpad are brought into an understanding of design thinking to the point that they can apply it to their teams and on their projects. [25:22] — Last year, Jean-Louis was in Kenya running a small design workshop. He shares a story of an event that happened there with a team of people familiar with his design thinking methods. [28:51] — Dawan points out that he and Jean-Louis both face the issue of dealing with people in their work who aren't confident in the design thinking process. [34:11] — Criticism is difficult to unlearn, Jean-Louis points out, and critique is more difficult to give than criticism. [36:33] — How has Jean-Louis found that templates function in the work that he has done? He answers, then talks about where he sees things going in the next several years as he applies design thinking at the World Bank. [43:26] — How does designing for the network of stakeholders change the design process? [45:58] — Jean-Louis talks about whether there are any other open questions that are interesting for him right now. [47:48] — We hear about some resources that Jean-Louis has found useful, and that listeners may find useful as well. [50:25] — Where can interested listeners learn more about Jean-Louis or his work?   Links and Resources Jean-Louis Racine infoDev Climate Technology Program ClimateLaunchpad yes@designthinking101.com (Dawan Stanford) Jeanne Liedtka Gamestorming: A Playbook for Innovators, Rulebreakers, and Changemakers by Dave Gray, Sunni Brown, and James Macanufo Designing for Growth: A Design Thinking Tool Kit for Managers by Jeanne Liedtka and Tim Ogilvie Product Design and Development by Karl Ulrich and Steven Eppinger Next Billion

The remarkable Jean-Louis Racine, head of the World Bank’s infoDev Climate Technology Program, joins me today to discuss how he came to apply design thinking in his work, doing design thinking in large organizations, leading design teams, and stakeholder-centered design. Before working at the World Bank, Jean-Louis earned a Ph.D. in robotics engineering and worked as an engineer. This allows him to bring a depth of experience to applying and thinking about design thinking. As you’ll hear in our conversation, one of the things that Jean-Louis appreciates most about design thinking is that it forces you to be “solution-agnostic,” as he puts it, and encourages redefining the problem into something that doesn’t include the solution. As an example, he shares a story of how this process brought him to the surprising solution of needing many entrepreneurs to fail faster. Many large organizations aren’t very risk-tolerant, but design thinking de-risks a project because it’s about testing hypotheses. Its rigor and evidence-based principles make it easier to create something that will actually work. Jean-Louis points out that framing the value of design thinking in these terms can be more successful for large organizations than talking about creativity, for example. Jean-Louis points out the need for trust in learning what the design thinking cycle is and how it works. It’s something that requires someone to experience it, he explains, which makes things tricky when people aren’t inclined to trust you through the process. The solution when people don’t embrace the new technique from the beginning is to simply struggle through it. We’ll also talk about techniques to get people to give feedback without as many ego issues, the difference between critique and criticism, what it means to design for stakeholders, some fantastic books and resources that will be useful for listeners interested in the various subjects we cover in this discussion, and much more. I hope you’ll enjoy this conversation as much as I did!   Learn More About Today’s Guest Jean-Louis Racine infoDev Climate Technology Program   In This Episode [01:34] — Jean-Louis starts off the conversation by telling listeners a bit about himself and his background. He also addresses how he came into design thinking and what the early journey was like for him. [04:36] — We hear the story of the first time that Jean-Louis applied design thinking in his work at the World Bank. [07:41] — When you don’t really know what you’re doing, you make mistakes, Jean-Louis points out. That’s how you learn. [08:22] — What was one of Jean-Louis’ mistakes that turned out to be a useful learning experiences? [12:01] — Jean-Louis talks about what has helped him with shaping design thinking to individual contexts. [13:07] — Jean-Louis digs into how things have changed over time in terms of the way organizations or colleagues have responded. [17:56] — We hear more about the ClimateLaunchpad program and how design thinking was applied there. [21:51] — Jean-Louis describes how the teams in the ClimateLaunchpad are brought into an understanding of design thinking to the point that they can apply it to their teams and on their projects. [25:22] — Last year, Jean-Louis was in Kenya running a small design workshop. He shares a story of an event that happened there with a team of people familiar with his design thinking methods. [28:51] — Dawan points out that he and Jean-Louis both face the issue of dealing with people in their work who aren’t confident in the design thinking process. [34:11] — Criticism is difficult to unlearn, Jean-Louis points out, and critique is more difficult to give than criticism. [36:33] — How has Jean-Louis found that templates function in the work that he has done? He answers, then talks about where he sees things going in the next several years as he applies design thinking at the World Bank. [43:26] — How does designing for the network of stakeholders change the design process? [45:58] — Jean-Louis talks about whether there are any other open questions that are interesting for him right now. [47:48] — We hear about some resources that Jean-Louis has found useful, and that listeners may find useful as well. [50:25] — Where can interested listeners learn more about Jean-Louis or his work?   Links and Resources Jean-Louis Racine infoDev Climate Technology Program ClimateLaunchpad yes@designthinking101.com (Dawan Stanford) Jeanne Liedtka Gamestorming: A Playbook for Innovators, Rulebreakers, and Changemakers by Dave Gray, Sunni Brown, and James Macanufo Designing for Growth: A Design Thinking Tool Kit for Managers by Jeanne Liedtka and Tim Ogilvie Product Design and Development by Karl Ulrich and Steven Eppinger Next Billion

Ben Jackson, founder & principal of Brooklyn advising firm For the Win, and creator of the open-source onboarding app Aloha, is Jeffrey Zeldman's guest. Ben and Jeffrey discuss service design, the opportunity cost of bad onboarding experiences, the 4Cs of good onboarding (compliance, clarity, culture, and community), the Aloha chatbot and how it fits into the broader trend of HR tech consumerization, and more. Programming since 1992, Ben is a designer, engineer, editor, and entrepreneur, a past director of Mobile for VICE Media, past mobile lead for Longform, and past iOS lead for The New York Times. He has written and edited bylines for The New Yorker, The Atlantic, and VICE; spoken at SXSW, Ignite NY, and Social Media Week; and volunteers on the curriculum Advisory Board, Coalition for Queens. Links for this episode:For the Win: Design-first Employee Onboarding in New Yorkdesign-first on boarding that takes the pain out of hiring Aloha! Automated Onboarding for Slack Teamsan on boarding bot for busy admins and growing Slack teams Tools for StartupsHow to Make Onboarding Engineers a Competitive Advantage | GitPrime BlogVice's Director of Mobile Apps Ben Jackson is creating his own startup advisory firm | TechCrunchNotion – Docs, Wikis, Tasks. Seamlessly in one.Anatomy of a Snap Attack | The New YorkerGamestorming: A Playbook for Innovators, Rulebreakers, and Changemakers: Dave Gray, Sunni Brown, James Macanufo: 8601300354866: Amazon.com: BooksGuide to Service Blueprinting — Practical Service DesignBrought to you by: ZipRecrutier (Visit the link to post jobs on ZipRecruiter for FREE).

Have you ever been in a meeting where you saw someone absentmindedly scribbling on a paper instead of listening to the presentation? Did you think they were being rude, not paying attention, and clearly not interested in what was going on? You couldn't have been more wrong. Doodling is a very powerful tool, especially for creatives. It's a way for the mind and body to remain engaged in what's going on. If you talk to someone who doodles while you are chatting with them, they are engaging in their more creative side of their brain. They are looking for answers and inspiration. In fact, some of the most successful people have been doodlers, including past presidents. Doodling isn't just about drawing on a paper, it can take many forms. There are several types of doodlers you'll find, including: Word doodlers Abstract doodlers (like me) Picture doodlers Landscape doodlers People/places doodlers On this week's episode of Creative Warriors we have a special guest, Sunni Brown. Sunni is the leader of the Doodle Revolution, and has been bringing back an ancient art form. She shares her creative expertise on a visual language that predates our written and spoken communication skills. Download this episode today to see how some scribbles can help impact your creative side! KINDNESS WARRIOR “Doodling can be a weapon against ignorance, a tool against complexity, a meditation in search of  insights, and a game in search of discovery.” -Sunni Brown Highlights - Doodling is both mindful and mindless. Inspiration is not predictable and arises when you are receptive. When the body and mind try to stay focus, doodling occurs. Our world is dominated by spoken and written language. Drawing is a natural language of it's own. People are attuned more to visual and body language than to spoken language. We are evolving into a less verbal society. You don't have to be self optimizing, it's ok to do things just for the joy of it. Anyone can doodle! Doodling is free of expectations. You can brainstorm with doodles instead of words. Guest Contact - Sunni's Website Sunni's Twitter  Sunni's Book The Doodle Revolution: Unlock The Power to Think Differently Resources - 12 Must-Have Mindsets for Uncommon Entrepreneurs! A FREE tool for Creative Warriors to help you get clear on the ways you need to think differently to get the results you want. We've been handed a whole bunch of malarky about who we are and how business works that simply doesn't work for us. It's time to set it straight! This tool will give you the insights you need to think your way to success as a Creative Warrior and keep you on track. Check out the Creative Warriors RESOURCE page! A collection of the best companies, hand-selected, to help you succeed! You'll find vendors, services, products, and programs to help you Create, Serve, and Be Prosperous! All these companies have been used and approved by Jeffrey and most are used every day in his business. Music by Jawn    

Who is on the show: In this episode, we host Dave Gray. He is the founder of XPLANE and author of multiple books including Liminal Thinking. Why is he on the show: He is a visual artist and uses agile, iterative techniques like Visual Thinking, Culture Mapping, and Gamestorming to get people engaged and involved in co-creating clear, unique and executable business strategies. His latest book - Liminal Thinking, talks about a core practice for connected leaders in a complex world. What do we talk about: In a free-wheeling conversation, we speak about How did he come about writing his book "Game-storming" with Sunni Brown and James Macanufo and his experience of writing the book Empathy Map and he shares a story about a session where he used the map and how it impacts people Why is it so difficult for people to empathise with others? How did his book "Connected Company" come about and what it was all about (Digital Transformation), which led to the question about how to make the transformation? How this led him to his latest book - "Liminal Thinking" The entire conversation around belief and how critical it is for internal transformation What are some of the most simple of things that if done can have significant impact on our lives? The ability to sit back and observe oneself as a third person is a meta ability that can help us bring about significant changes in our own lives. How could one go about developing this ability? Is there a connection between being in the moment and visual thinking? Something that was surprising and interesting while researching for the book - "Liminal thinking". Who does he considers the most inspiring person and why? What is it that you see in the world that blows his mind? What is the biggest limitation of humanity? Why? What does his creative process looks like? What are his routines that support his creativity? What gives him joy or how does he rejuvenate himself? Where does he get creative ideas from ? What is his learning habits? How does he continue to evolve and grow as a person? Book Recommendation: History of Illuminated Manuscripts Making Meetings work What he thinks is obvious but people miss all the time (The answer will definitely surprise you). What is one thing he wants you to do as soon as you finish listening to this conversation? Liminal thinking talks about learning six principles and nine practices. These nine practices of liminal thinking can be summarised as three simple precepts: Get in touch with your ignorance. Seek understanding. Do something different. Here is a video where Dave explains the Pyramid of Beliefs from his book and you can find a summary of his book here. How can you connect with him: You can follow him on twitter @DaveGray and his website is http://www.xplaner.com.

A landscape architect, entrepreneur, graphic journalist and memory collector, Deborah LeFrank uses pens and paper to capture stories from daily life by creating sketch-notes or visual stories which help her remember things and memories. I've known her for quite some time and I'm a big fan of her work, and she's my guest for this episode. She uses bullet journaling and incorporates visuals to it as a key tool for productivity in all aspects of her life. Her company Visual Life Stories helps people to collect their memories through visual stories. There's so much that Deborah shared, some of the things discussed are: How we met at Social Media Camp and the story behind the business cards she handed that really impressed me (1:59; 4:50). The scope of her work that allows for remarkable presentations and excellent ways to recall and capture the essence of the presentations for the audience (3:27; 7:05). People's innate attraction to visual learning and story-telling, and her technique to do the process of note-taking and sketching effectively (8:00). How she started interest in her craft, honing it through practice as needed in her career (14:20), and finding out about the concept of sketch-notes (16:00). Integrating analog and digital methods in sketch-noting to create projects and serve clients (18:52). How bullet journaling allows her to combine artistry and productivity, and how its convenience and flexibility helps her greatly (22:52; 28:06). Features she's added into the newest version of her bullet journal like habit tracking template, daily theming and focus words (25:30). Relevant Links: http://www.visuallifestories.com/ (Visual Life Stories | Deborah LeFrank) http://rohdesign.com/ (Mike Rohde's Books on Sketchnoting | Designer Mike Rohde) http://www.evalotta.net/ (Eva-Lotta Lamm | User Experience Designer) http://chrisbrogan.com/3words2017/ (My 3 Words for 2017 | Chris Brogan) http://www.cc-chapman.com/tag/3words/ (3words | C.C. Chapman) http://sunnibrown.com/ (Graphic Recording and Meeting Facilitation with Sunni Brown) https://twitter.com/deborahlefrank (Deborah LeFrank (@DeborahLeFrank) | Twitter) https://twitter.com/visuallifestory (Visual Life Stories (@visuallifestory) | Twitter) https://www.facebook.com/VisualLifeStories/ (Visual Life Stories | Facebook) If you want to know more about the nitty-gritty of Deborah's bullet journal, there is a bonus episode available for https://patreon.com/productivityist (Productivityist subscribers on Patreon) - if you're not yet subscribed, now is the best time to do that. For as low as $1 a month gives you access to the bonus episodes, exclusive perks, and the Slack community. You can also show your support by giving the podcast a rating and review on iTunes or any platform you're listening to, we're using your feedback to improve the show. Thanks for listening, until next time remember to stop guessing… and start going.

https://www.pensamientovisual.es/apuntes-visuales-sketchnotes-doodles/ En este episodio veremos unos conceptos fundamentales de aprendizaje aplicando el pensamiento visual. Pero antes, recuerda visitar la web pensamientovisual.es para acceder gratis a la intranet formativa con el ABC del Pensamiento Visual, así como ver este episodio por escrito e incluso un curso. Hoy te voy a presentar: Apuntes visuales, sketchnotes o doodles. ¿realizas apuntes visuales? ¿te gustaría mejorar tu auto-aprendizaje o el de tus alumnos con nuevas técnicas visuales basadas en sketchnotes o doodles? ¿quieres repasar tus propios apuntes de un modo más entretenido y eficaz? Si quieres mejorar tus apuntes, y así también aumentar tu capacidad de recordar conceptos e ideas, sólo tienes que convertirlos en apuntes visuales que no te den pereza revisar más tarde, y que además permitan ser revisados más rápidamente. Convierte tus apuntes propios, y/o fomenta entre tus alumnos… la realización de apuntes visuales! Lo que denomino aquí como apuntes visuales, también podríamos etiquetarlo del siguiente modo: Sketchnote: fomentado por Mike Rohde en su libro The Sketchnote Handbook. Sketchnotes son notas visuales creadas a mano, y con una mezcla de palabras, tipografías, dibujos, formas y elementos visuales como líneas y recuadros. Doodles: defendido por Sunni Brown en su libro The Doodle Revolution. El Doodle o garabateo, es una herramienta increíblemente poderosa y por ello necesitamos una nueva definición del garabateo: hacer marcas espontáneas que nos ayuden a pensar. ¿cuál es el origen de los Apuntes visuales, sketchnotes o doodles? Los “apuntes visuales” son a mi entender muy necesarios, por ser el único modo de poder recordar y entender la información de un modo rápido y eficaz, incluso ayudando a nuestra mente a recordar más información y/o buscar asociaciones. Los “sketchnotes” son para Mike Rohde un nueva forma de poder tomar apuntes de charlas, de un modo resumido, divertido y que fomenta centrarse en la grandes ideas, dejando atrás la frustración por intentar plasmar absolutamente todo en un cuaderno infinito. Para Sunni Brown los “doodles” son una herramienta básica para poder aprender y enseñar, y que es innato a todos nosotros, como un canal a través del cual las personas acceden a niveles más altos de alfabetización visual.

Sunni Brown leads off GIRL POWER Season 3 of the Sketchnote Army Podcast! Trained as a graphic recorder at the Grove by visual thinking Jedi master David Sibbet, Sunni has found her own path to incorporating game design, design thinking, and improv into her visual thinking practice, to create fully immersive services for her clients. Listen as Sunni and I talk about her path to where she is now, the impact and importance of community, empathy, and more. SPONSORED BY The Sketchnote Army Clothing Collection! A variety of t-shirts and sweatshirts available for sale at Teespring that support Sketchnote Army and look fashionable at the same time! http://sketchnotearmy.com/t-shirts SHOW NOTES Sunni Brown - https://twitter.com/sunnibrown Book: The Doodle Revolution - http://sunnibrown.com/doodlerevolution/ SXSW Interactive: Visual Thinking 101 - http://rohdesign.com/weblog/2010/5/11/sxsw-2010-visual-note-taking-101-podcast-slides.html Book: Gamestorming - https://www.amazon.com/Gamestorming-Playbook-Innovators-Rulebreakers-Changemakers-ebook/dp/B003XDUCLS/therohdesignwebs Book: The Doodle Revolution - https://www.amazon.com/Doodle-Revolution-Unlock-Power-Differently/dp/1591847036/therohdesignwebs ComedySportz Milwaukee - http://www.cszmke.com/ Dave Gray - http://www.xplaner.com/ Dave Gray's Sketchnote Army Podcast Interview - https://soundcloud.com/sketchnote-army-podcast/dave-gray-se02-ep01 Book: Liminal Thinking - http://twowavesbooks.com/book/liminal-thinking/ The Backward Bike - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 Seinfeld: Opposite George - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUvKE3bQlY Book: Unleashing The Idea Virus - http://www.sethgodin.com/ideavirus/01-getit.html Mind Mapping - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_map Book: Untangled - http://sunnibrown.com/untangled Book: War of Art - https://www.amazon.com/War-Art-Through-Creative-Battles/dp/1936891026/therohdesignwebs The Grove - http://www.grove.com/ Graphic Recording - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiIgcoc7Wqg Graphic Facilitation - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphic_facilitation Rob Dimeo - https://twitter.com/Rob_Dimeo_ Sketchnoting and Scientific Topics - http://sketchnotearmy.com/blog/2016/1/25/sketchnoters-stories-sketchnoting-and-scientific-topics-rob.html 2017 New Years Aspirations - https://twitter.com/sunnibrown/status/815290932048396293 Zig Dual Writer Markers - https://www.amazon.com/Zig-Memory-System-Writer-Marker/dp/B004XIVOFA/therohdesignwebs Neuland Markers - http://us.neuland.com/ Static Notes - https://teslaamazing.com/ Tombow Paint Markers - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000XAORTC/therohdesignwebs Betabook - http://www.betabook.co/ Grove Paper - https://grovetools-inc.com/collections/supplies/products/paper ULINE Butcher Paper - https://www.uline.com/BL_1956/Butcher-Paper?keywords=roll%20paper Box Cutters - https://www.uline.com/Product/AdvSearchResult?keywords=box%20cutter SUNNI'S 3 TIPS Not needing permission. Whatever you make is going to be OK, so dot it! Practice the visual alphabet, build a visual library. Best kept secret! It's not cheating to use reference images and icons. Peer collaborators - share and play with community.

In this episode, we talk with Krzys Piekarski, PhD. Krzys is a DFW scholar who has written extensively on DFW and Buddhism. He also runs a wisdom program in Austin called Character by Design: https://characterbydesign.org/ We cover a variety of topics in this show, from parables to stress and boredom to the basics of Buddhism and how it manifests in Wallace's writing.  The book Krzys mentions is at the end of the show is called Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind, and we talk about the books of Steven Batchelor - Buddhism without Beliefs. His podcast, with author Sunni Brown is called Sunni & Wise. http://sunniandwise.com / @sunniandwise There are some weird booming sounds in this episode. Sorry about that!   Show Notes 01:46 - Introduction Krzys & his teaching background 03:00 - Teaching in prison 04:24 - Krzys's dissertation on Buddhism, Philosophy, and David Foster Wallace 06:48 - Can Wallace be considered a Buddhist thinker? 08:30 - Krzys's path to Buddhism 11:00 - DFW's undergrad years at Amherst & Wittgenstein 12:08 - Wittgensteinian zen parable 14:14 - The limits of language 14:25 - Buddhism 101 15:15 - Suffering 18:59 - How we can gain freedom 21:50 - George Saunders calls Wallace a great Buddhist writer 23:57 - Wallace and meditation 25:38 - The boredom thing 29:11 - Flow state 35:49 - What is the purpose of life? 36:00 - David Foster Wallace and the Velveteen Rabbit 38:30 - Escape from the self 43:10 - Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind 44:20 - Mario Incandenza 47:00 - Disgust and addicts 52:00 - Trying to express inexpressible truths 53:20 - Double binds 57:20 - Stepping in to a monastery 1:00:30 - Sincere curiosity  1:02:15 - There is nothing missing in you 1:07:00 - Show wrap-up, thanks, and links          

This interview was originally published on February 09, 2015, as HTE 058: Refusing to Scale (and Being Kind to Others) During this conversation, you will begin to understand entrepreneurship as a creative venture. Sunni Brown is smart, funny, and her energy is contagious. This all makes for an insightful and exciting conversation that moves from the Pet Rock, to calculus, and onto Sunni’s refusal to scale her business — and what you can learn from her decision. --- Today’s guest is an amazing entrepreneur, artist, and awesome human. She is the founder of SB Ink, a creative consultancy and an agent of social change. She is the author and leader of a global campaign for visual literacy called The Doodle Revolution. My guest has worked with companies like Disney, Sharpie, Zappos and SXSW. Using common sense, experience, and neuroscience, she is proving that to doodle is to ignite your whole mind—and she aims to teach the world how to master “strategic doodling” in her latest book, The Doodle Revolution. This was a brilliant and hilarious conversation and I am so glad to share it with you. Now, let’s hack… Sunni Brown. What you will learn in this episode: Why you should allow yourself to come up with goofy ideas Entrepreneurism does not have to be risky Sunni Brown could have never been the inventor of the Pet Rock Why Sunni is terrible at calculus and how this makes her awesome Resources and links mentioned: SunniBrown.com Sunni’s Ted talk  Lyn Christian  Pet Rock  The Pet Rock Sadie made for Sunni  The Doodle Revolution  Gamestorming  Sunni On Twitter Exclusive Sponsor: Freshbooks (30-day Free Trial)    

Sunni is Infodoodler-in-Chief of SB Ink and was named one of the 100 Most Creative People in Business and one of the 10 Most Creative People on Twitter by Fast Company. Sunni is the Co-author of Gamestorming, and the leader of a global campaign for visual literacy called The Doodle Revolution.

On the show, Chief Infodoodler, and, as named by Fast Company magazine in 2011, one of the most creative entrepreneur on Twitter and in business - is author, TED speaker and doodling evangelist, Sunni Brown. Outside the norm? Yeah me too. Learn how to harness it. Read Sunni's first book - Gamestorming: A playbook for innovators, rulebreakers, and changemakers. Follow Sunni on Twitter, Facebook, Google Plus, and visit her site. Pei and I try to add value with every show we put out. We know that your time is at an all-time premium these days, which is why we do our best to  bring you the best insights and interviews possible, with the people who can help you move the needle in your own biz and life. The show today might sound a little different than you're used to hearing. While most guests talk about a ReLaunch! they've already experienced (looking back gives perspective and learning opportunities), Sunni talks about challenges she's currently facing in her life and relationship and was bold and courageous enough to sort through some of her stuff on the air. We recognize that you may be going through a tough spot too and this show might give you the idea or solution you're looking for. Do us a favor, if you got value from this show, TWEET ME and tell us why.   Need a plan for how to think differently? Read Sunni's bestseller - The Doodle Revolution: The power to think differently.

Sunni Brown is the leader of a global campaign for literacy called the The Doodle Revolution. In this episode, she talks to us all about the journey that led her to leading this revolution, and how we can make sense of the world by doodling. Overcoming a challenging childhood environment Learning to love and nurture your creative skillsA life and career made of punctuated equilibriumThe evolution of following your bliss as a career Discovering where you thrive and where you don'tWhy we need people who don't take risks The benefits of collecting a paycheck we ignoreEarly foundations for the info-doodle revolution Recognizing the moment when you're calling appearsIncreasing the odds of finding your element Learning to remember the beginner's mind Creating info-doodles to make sense of the world Why your doodles don't have to be beautifulInsights that get revealed through the doodling process Sunni Brown was named one of the “100 Most Creative People in Business” and one of the “10 Most Creative People on Twitter” by Fast Company. She is founder of a creative consultancy, an international speaker, the co-author of Gamestorming, and the leader of a global campaign for visual literacy called The Doodle Revolution. Her TED Talk on doodling has drawn more than a million views on TED.com. She lives in Keep Austin Weird, Texas. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Sunni is Infodoodler-in-Chief of SB Ink and was named one of the 100 Most Creative People in Business and one of the 10 Most Creative People on Twitter by Fast Company. Sunni is the Co-author of Gamestorming, and the leader of a global campaign for visual literacy called The Doodle Revolution.

News, Kelly Vaughn co-host, Conditional Text; Quizzler 190 Answer; Obscurity of the Week: Hidden Destination ----- Listen in your browser: InDesignSecrets-192.mp3(14.4 MB, 27:45 minutes) See the Show Notes for links mentioned in this episode. A very special episode with guest co-host Kelly Vaughn! News PEPCON News: IGNITE InDesign, Sunni Brown keynote, Scavenger Hunt game All about Kelly Vaughn and her blog, DocumentGeek Deep Dive into Conditional Text Quizzler 190 Answer! (see below) .. And the winner is announced Obscure InDesign Feature of the Week: Hidden Destination News and special offers from our sponsors: >> Em Software is the developer of DocsFlow and WordsFlow, two plug-ins for Adobe InDesign that dynamically link your text frames to online Google Docs (DocsFlow) or placed Word files (WordsFlow). These products enable a breakthrough publishing workflow, one where your authors and editors can keep changing the source document, and you can merge in their changes automatically and painlessly, even after you’ve made changes to the InDesign story (without losing your changes or formatting!). Special offer just for InDesignSecrets listeners: Use the coupon code ids413 in the EmSoftware.com store when buying either of these plug-ins and get 20% off! This code is only good until May 31, so grab them both! -- QUIZZLER 190: Here is the image we talked about in episode 190 and continued in episode 191. As revealed in episode 192, what makes this line's bounding box turn into a lovely rainbow is that it's been anchored to some text and then multiple — 5, to be exact — conditions (from Conditional Text) were applied to the text containing the anchor. So you're looking at non-printing Conditional Text markup. -- Links mentioned in this podcast: > Come to PEPCON! Our annual Print + ePublishing Conference, this year April 28–May 1 in Austin, Texas > Kelly Vaughn's wonderful DocumentGeek blog > Kelly's posts here on InDesignSecrets > More conditional text posts here and here > The Obscure Error Message of the Week-eek-eek, courtesy of Kelly: