Podcasts about all you can ever know

Gretchen Sisson is the author of Relinquished: The Politics of Adoption and the Privilege of American Motherhood and a sociologist at Advancing New Standards in Reproductive Health in the department of obstetrics, gynecology, and reproductive sciences at the University of California, San Francisco. She studies adoption and abortion in the United States.Books Gretchen recommends:All You Can Ever Know by Nicole ChungYou Should Be Grateful: Stories of Race, Identity and Transracial Adoption by Angela TuckerBitterroot: A Salish Memoir of Transracial Adoption by Susan Devan HarnessWhat White Parents Should Know About Transracial Adoption by Melissa Guida-RichardsWe Were Once a Family: A Story of Love, Death, and Child Removal in America by Roxana AsgarianSurviving the White Gaze by Rebecca CarrollLINKS:www.civicsoul.org/events https://www.gretchensisson.com/https://caringacross.org/www.Howcanihelppod.com www.Citizenofsound.com 

Two bestselling authors — Nicole Chung (A Living Remedy) and Lydia Millet (We Loved It All) — discuss the process and craft of writing a memoir with book critic Donna Seaman. This conversation originally took place May 19, 2024 and was recorded live at the American Writers Festival.AWM PODCAST NETWORK HOMEA Living Remedy: A Memoir by Nicole Chung — A searing memoir of family, class and grief—a daughter's search to understand the lives her adoptive parents led, the life she forged as an adult, and the lives she's lost.We Loved It All: A Memory of Life by Lydia Millet — This lucent anti-memoir from celebrated novelist Lydia Millet explores the pain and joy of being a parent, child, and human at a moment when the richness of the planet's life is deeply threatened.NICOLE CHUNG'S A Living Remedy was named a New York Times Notable Book of 2023 and a Best Book of the Year by over a dozen outlets. Her 2018 debut, All You Can Ever Know, was a national bestseller and finalist the National Book Critics Circle Award. She has written for numerous publications, including the New York Times Magazine, Time, the Atlantic, GQ, the Guardian, and Slate. Born and raised in the Pacific Northwest, she now lives in the Washington, DC area.LYDIA MILLET has written more than a dozen novels and short story collections, including Dinosaurs (2022) and A Children's Bible, which was a finalist for the National Book Award in fiction and one of The New York Times Book Review's Best 10 Books of 2020. Millet has won fiction awards from the American Academy of Arts and Letters and PEN-Center USA and has been a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize; since 1999 she has also worked as a writer and editor at the Center for Biological Diversity. We Loved It All is her first work of nonfiction.DONNA SEAMAN is Editor, Adult Books for Booklist. A recipient of the Louis Shores Award for excellence in book reviewing, the James Friend Memorial Award for Literary Criticism, and the Studs Terkel Humanities Service Award, Seaman is a member of the Content Leadership Team for the American Writers Museum, a frequent presenter at various literary events and programs, and an adjunct professor for Northwestern University's MA in Writing and MFA in MFA in Prose and Poetry Programs. Seaman's author interviews are collected in Writers on the Air and she is the author of Identity Unknown: Rediscovering Seven American Women Artists.

Author Nicole Chung was born to Korean immigrants in Seattle and later adopted by a white couple in Southern Oregon. The 2018 memoir “All You Can Ever Know” follows Chung’s exploration of her identity as a transracial adoptee as she searches for her birth family. Her second memoir, released earlier this month, covers the untimely deaths of her adoptive parents — first her father from kidney disease, then her mother from cancer in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic. “A Living Remedy” chronicles Chung’s grief and rage as she reckons with ways financial instability and inadequate health care access contributed to her parents’ deaths. 

We cannot separate grief from the context in which it occurs. This is true for Nicole Chung whose adopted parents died just two years apart in 2018 and 2020. The world of 2018 was very different than that of 2020. In 2018, Nicole and her mother could grieve for her father, together and in person. In 2020, Nicole was on the other side of the country, grieving for her mother in isolation during the early days of the pandemic. The other context that played a role in her parents's lives and their deaths is the structural inequality that exists in the U.S. economy and end of life care. Nicole chronicles all of this in her new memoir, A Living Remedy.  We discuss: How hard it is to describe people and what they mean to us What it was like to be cut off from more traditional grief rituals during the pandemic Grieving an unexpected vs (more) expected death Learning to distinguish between guilt and regret How grounding her parents' deaths in a larger context helped alleviate some of her guilt The pressures Nicole felt to care for her parents as an only child in a working class family What it costs to die and grieve in the U.S. The unacknowledged grief of being a transracial adoptee Approaching the 4-year anniversary of her mother's death Nicole Chung's A Living Remedy was named a Notable Book of 2023 by The New York Times and a Best Book of the Year by over a dozen outlets, including Time, USA Today, Harper's Bazaar, Esquire, Electric Literature, and TODAY. Her 2018 debut, the national bestseller All You Can Ever Know, was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award, a semifinalist for the PEN Open Book Award, a Barnes & Noble Discover Great New Writers selection, and an Indies Choice Honor Book. Chung's writing has appeared in The New York Times Magazine, The Atlantic, Time, The Guardian, GQ, Slate, Vulture, and many other publications. Previously, she was digital editorial director at the independent publisher Catapult, where she helped lead its magazine to two National Magazine Awards; before that, she was the managing editor of The Toast and an editor at Hyphen magazine. In 2021, she was named to the Good Morning America AAPI Inspiration List honoring those “making Asian American history right now.” Born and raised in the Pacific Northwest, she now lives in the Washington, DC area.  

Nicole Chung, author of All You Can Ever Know, has done it again with another wonderful memoir about growing up as a transracial adoptee and then losing both her adoptive parents. A Living Remedy is a story about family love and loss, regardless of how the family is formed.In this episode, we discuss:Family love. You were well, if not always perfectly, loved.You were temperamentally different from your parents, especially your dad. This may be more common in adoption. How did these differences impact you growing up?Things my mom sent me, I sent my mom, my mom gave me. Growing out of the socioeconomic level you were raised in.Your mother thought you were ashamed of them. What is middle class?There is a big difference between being working class and middle class.“Our “broke” bore no resemblance to my parent's “broke.” …We always had options.The impact of lack of money on health.Impact of Covid on families trying to care for loved ones.Your sister Cindy. Cindy wasn't well-loved. How did she deal with the differences in her life vs your life?This podcast is produced by www.CreatingaFamily.org. We are a national non-profit with the mission to strengthen and inspire adoptive, foster & kinship parents and the professionals who support them. Creating a Family brings you the following trauma-informed, expert-based content:Weekly podcastsWeekly articles/blog postsResource pages on all aspects of family buildingPlease leave us a rating or review RateThisPodcast.com/creatingafamilySupport the showPlease leave us a rating or review RateThisPodcast.com/creatingafamily

In this episode, Nicole Chung (author of A Living Remedy and All You Can Ever Know) joins Prudie (Jenée Desmond-Harris) to answer letters from readers dilemmas about a husband who wants to give up travel for grandpa duty, a partner who's becoming really pushy about issues around adoption, and an engagement ring that could use a little work. If you want more Dear Prudence, join Slate Plus, Slate's membership program. Jenée answers an extra question every week, just for members.  Go to Slate.com/prudieplus to sign up. It's just $15 for your first three months.  Podcast production by Se'era Spragley Ricks and Daisy Rosario, with help from Maura Currie. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Nicole Chung (author of A Living Remedy and All You Can Ever Know) joins Prudie (Jenée Desmond-Harris) to answer letters from readers dilemmas about a husband who wants to give up travel for grandpa duty, a partner who's becoming really pushy about issues around adoption, and an engagement ring that could use a little work. If you want more Dear Prudence, join Slate Plus, Slate's membership program. Jenée answers an extra question every week, just for members.  Go to Slate.com/prudieplus to sign up. It's just $15 for your first three months.  Podcast production by Se'era Spragley Ricks and Daisy Rosario, with help from Maura Currie. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Nicole Chung (author of A Living Remedy and All You Can Ever Know) joins Prudie (Jenée Desmond-Harris) to answer letters from readers dilemmas about a husband who wants to give up travel for grandpa duty, a partner who's becoming really pushy about issues around adoption, and an engagement ring that could use a little work. If you want more Dear Prudence, join Slate Plus, Slate's membership program. Jenée answers an extra question every week, just for members.  Go to Slate.com/prudieplus to sign up. It's just $15 for your first three months.  Podcast production by Se'era Spragley Ricks and Daisy Rosario, with help from Maura Currie. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Nicole Chung (author of A Living Remedy and All You Can Ever Know) joins Prudie (Jenée Desmond-Harris) to answer letters from readers dilemmas about a husband who wants to give up travel for grandpa duty, a partner who's becoming really pushy about issues around adoption, and an engagement ring that could use a little work. If you want more Dear Prudence, join Slate Plus, Slate's membership program. Jenée answers an extra question every week, just for members.  Go to Slate.com/prudieplus to sign up. It's just $15 for your first three months.  Podcast production by Se'era Spragley Ricks and Daisy Rosario, with help from Maura Currie. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nicole Chung grew up as a transracial adoptee – and one of the few people of color in her Oregon hometown. Her lifelong journey of self-discovery and poignant, candid writing on the subject have positioned Chung as a singular voice in memoir. In her 2018 debut, All You Can Ever Know, Chung shares her search […] The post Club Book Episode 159 Nicole Chung first appeared on Club Book.

Episode Notes November is National Adoption Month, which adoptees have reclaimed as National Adoptee Awareness Month (NAAM). In honor of NAAM, this month on Let's Grab Coffee, I'm featuring conversations with authors of books that center adoptee voices. In the last few years, loss and grief have become a shared collective experience, particularly in the wake of the COVID19 pandemic. This period has also put the inequities in the U.S. healthcare system front and center along with the ways that what has been “normal” has often been harmful or unsustainable. In A Living Remedy: A Memoir, Nicole Chung shares her personal experience of loss and grief and connects it to the broader systemic failures that countless Americans have encountered and are one emergency away from encountering. Nicole Chung is the author the national bestseller All You Can Ever Know, which was named a Best Book of the Year by over twenty outlets, including NPR, The Washington Post, and Time. She is currently a contributing writer at The Atlantic, a Time contributor, and a Slate columnist. In 2021, she was named to the Good Morning America AAPI Inspiration List honoring those “making Asian American history right now.”

We talked with:Nicole Chung is the author of “A Living Remedy” and “All You Can Ever Know.” “A Living Remedy” was a New York Times Book Review Editors' Choice and has already been named a Best Book of 2023 by Time, Harper's Bazaar, Esquire, USA Today, and Booklist, among others. Chung's 2018 debut, the national bestseller “All You Can Ever Know,” landed on over 20 Best of the Year lists and has been translated into several languages.Brenda Ernst, M.D., is a hematologist and oncologist at the Mayo Clinic Comprehensive Cancer Center in Phoenix, Arizona. She cares for patients with various types of malignant cancers, especially breast and ovarian cancer. After earning her medical degree at St. George's University School of Medicine in Bay Shore, New York, Dr. Ernst completed an internal medicine residency at the Orlando Regional Medical Center and a fellowship in hematology/oncology at the Mayo Clinic School of Graduate Medical Education in Scottsdale, Arizona, where she was Chief Fellow.We talked about:In this episode, Dr. Millstine and her guests discuss:The high cost of illness — and healthcare. When Nicole's mother was diagnosed with breast cancer, Nicole was of course most worried about her mother's life. Only later did she realize the financial fallout: insurmountable medical debt.When care comes too late. Many people struggling with money and healthcare coverage put off receiving earlier treatment or preventive care. Nicole's father didn't receive crucial treatment until the last possible moment in his diabetes, and he needed to be on dialysis. What would her parent's lives have looked like if he had access to treatment years before?The tricky nature of caretaking for your caretakers. It's a struggle to try to help parents, especially when parents want to protect their children from their hardships. Dr. Ernst says that it can be hard to ask for help if your identity is “the caretaker” or “the parent.” When we come up against a crisis, we want to reassure ourselves that we are who we have always been, but crisis changes us and our roles.Can't get enough?Purchase “A Living Remedy.”From Bookshop.org.From Amazon.From Barnes & Noble.Want to read more on the topic? Check out our blog.Got feedback?If you've got ideas or book suggestions, email us at readtalkgrow@mayo.edu.We invite you to complete the following survey as part of a research study at Mayo Clinic. Your responses are anonymous. Your participation in this survey as well as its completion are voluntary.

Transracial adoption has increased over the years and the experience of being raised by adoptive parents of a different race is not without complications. Host Roy Wood Jr. chats with author of the book All You Can Ever Know, Nicole Chung, and author of the book Surviving the White Gaze, Rebecca Carroll, about their first-hand experiences as transracial adoptees. They discuss their upbringings in predominantly white cities, why adoptive families often don't talk about race, and their lifelong journey navigating their racial identity.   Original air date: November 1, 2022See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Notes In the last few years, loss and grief have become a shared collective experience, particularly in the wake of the COVID19 pandemic. This period has also put the inequities in the U.S. healthcare system front and center along with the ways that what has been “normal” has often been harmful or unsustainable. In _A Living Remedy: A Memoir, _Nicole Chung shares her personal experience of loss and grief and connects it to the broader systemic failures that countless Americans have encountered and are one emergency away from encountering.  Nicole Chung is the author the national bestseller All You Can Ever Know, _which was named a Best Book of the Year by over twenty outlets, including NPR, _The Washington Post, _and _Time. She is currently a contributing writer at The Atlantic, a Time contributor, and a _Slate _columnist.

Jeff and Phil welcome writer Nicole Chung, author of All You Can Ever Know, which tells the story of her adoption and search for her birth family, and A Living Remedy, her memoir about grief and the death of her adoptive parents. They discuss grieving under capitalism, writing and enduring through loss (and a global pandemic), If John Cho Were Your Boyfriend, and why you should never ever ever tell casual strangers that you're a writer. Also: They Good, The Bad, and The WTF of writing your life.

Author Nicole Chung was born to Korean immigrants in Seattle and later adopted by a white couple in Southern Oregon. The 2018 memoir “All You Can Ever Know” follows Chung’s exploration of her identity as a transracial adoptee as she searches for her birth family. Her second memoir, released earlier this month, covers the untimely deaths of her adoptive parents — first her father from kidney disease, then her mother from cancer in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic. “A Living Remedy” chronicles Chung’s grief and rage as she reckons with ways financial instability and inadequate health care access contributed to her parents’ deaths. 

  Nicole Chung has written two memoirs in five years—both about loss and family.  The first is the highly acclaimed All You Can Ever Know which was a finalist for National Book Critics Circle Award. It explores the circumstances of her adoption as a Korean American by a white family who were advised take a colorblind approach to parenting, the implications of that decision for Chung, her successful search as an adult to find her birth family, and the loving support of her adoptive parents.  Her recently released second memoir A Living Remedy deals with the deaths of her adoptive parents within a two year period, how the healthcare system failed her father, and Chung's struggle to balance the duties of a mother with that of a daughter as her terminally-ill mother who lived across the country went into hospice as the country shut down due to the pandemic.  A Living Remedy deftly navigates personal loss with a hard look at broader societal issues and Chung discusses balancing between the two, the extraordinary difficulty in writing this memoir that has at its center the abiding love she shares with her parents, most particularly her mother, and finding grace as she learned to live with grief.  Let us know what you think about Art Works—email us at artworkspod@arts.gov.

  Nicole Chung has written two memoirs in five years—both about loss and family.  The first is the highly acclaimed All You Can Ever Know which was a finalist for National Book Critics Circle Award. It explores the circumstances of her adoption as a Korean American by a white family who were advised take a colorblind approach to parenting, the implications of that decision for Chung, her successful search as an adult to find her birth family, and the loving support of her adoptive parents.  Her recently released second memoir A Living Remedy deals with the deaths of her adoptive parents within a two year period, how the healthcare system failed her father, and Chung's struggle to balance the duties of a mother with that of a daughter as her terminally-ill mother who lived across the country went into hospice as the country shut down due to the pandemic.  A Living Remedy deftly navigates personal loss with a hard look at broader societal issues and Chung discusses balancing between the two, the extraordinary difficulty in writing this memoir that has at its center the abiding love she shares with her parents, most particularly her mother, and finding grace as she learned to live with grief.  Let us know what you think about Art Works—email us at artworkspod@arts.gov.

This week, bestselling author Nicole Chung discusses her new memoir, A Living Remedy, with Nina Li Coomes. The following conversation originally took place May 16, 2023 and was recorded live via Zoom. AWM PODCAST NETWORK HOME More about A Living Remedy: From the bestselling author of All You Can Ever Know comes a searing memoir [...]

This week, bestselling author Nicole Chung discusses her new memoir, A Living Remedy, with Nina Li Coomes. The following conversation originally took place May 16, 2023 and was recorded live via Zoom. AWM PODCAST NETWORK HOME More about A Living Remedy: From the bestselling author of All You Can Ever Know comes a searing memoir of family, class and grief—a daughter's search to understand the lives her adoptive parents led, the life she forged as an adult, and the lives she's lost. "In this country, unless you attain extraordinary wealth, you will likely be unable to help your loved ones in all the ways you'd hoped. You will learn to live with the specific, hollow guilt of those who leave hardship behind, yet are unable to bring anyone else with them." Nicole Chung couldn't hightail it out of her overwhelmingly white Oregon hometown fast enough. As a scholarship student at a private university on the East Coast, no longer the only Korean she knew, she found community and a path to the life she'd long wanted. But the middle class world she begins to raise a family in — where there are big homes, college funds, nice vacations — looks very different from the middle class world she thought she grew up in, where paychecks have to stretch to the end of the week, health insurance is often lacking, and there are no safety nets. When her father dies at only sixty-seven, killed by diabetes and kidney disease, Nicole feels deep grief as well as rage, knowing that years of precarity and lack of access to healthcare contributed to his early death. And then the unthinkable happens — less than a year later, her beloved mother is diagnosed with cancer, and the physical distance between them becomes insurmountable as COVID-19 descends upon the world. Exploring the enduring strength of family bonds in the face of hardship and tragedy, A Living Remedy examines what it takes to reconcile the distance between one life, one home, and another — and sheds needed light on some of the most persistent and grievous inequalities in American society.

Writer Nicole Chung's first memoir, “All You Can Ever Know,” chronicled her search for her birth family. Her second, “A Living Remedy,” documents her final years with her adopted parents and the health care costs that burdened them until their deaths. “Sickness and grief throw wealthy and poor families alike into upheaval,” she writes, “but they do not transcend the gulfs between us, as some claim—if anything, they often magnify them.” Chung joins us to share her story, one about grief, race, class and their interconnections. Guests: Nicole Chung, author, "A Living Remedy," and "All You Can Ever Know"; contributor, The Atlantic, Time, and Slate, and writes for many other publications.

Candace Cahill joins Let's Talk Memoir for a conversation about placing her newborn son for adoption and meeting him as an adult shortly before his death, writing for clarity, negotiating guilt, finding compassion for yourself, writing as a process for grieving, and her memoir Goodbye Again.   Also in this episode: -child relinquishment -extending grace to parents who fell short -the benefits of writing groups   Books mentioned in this episode: All You Can Ever Know by Nicole Chung When I Was Her Daughter by Leslie Ferguson Wild by Cheryl Strayed Educated by Tara Westover The Burning Light of Two Stars by Laura Davis   Candace Cahill is a multi-disciplinary artist from Denali, Alaska, and the author of Goodbye Again, a memoir about losing her son twice. A life-long learner, she utilizes traumatic experiences from her life to provide insights into self-compassion and healing. Known for her ability to engage diverse audiences, her stories are tragic yet uplifting. She delights and inspires audiences with her storytelling expertise through speaking engagements, written work, songwriting, and as a seasonal National Park Ranger. When Candace is not telling stories, you can find her walking in the woods, playing her guitar, and reading books.   Connect with Candace: Website: candacecahill.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/candace_cahill_ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/candace.cahill.16 –  Ronit Plank is a writer, teacher, and editor whose work has been featured in The Atlantic, The Washington Post, The New York Times, Writer's Digest, The Rumpus, American Literary Review, Hippocampus, The Iowa Review, and elsewhere. Her memoir WHEN SHE COMES BACK about the loss of her mother to the guru Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh and their eventual reconciliation was named a 2021 Best True Crime Book by Book Riot and was a Finalist in the National Indie Excellence Awards, the Housatonic Book Awards, and the Book of the Year Awards. Her fiction and creative nonfiction have been nominated for Pushcart Prizes, the Best of the Net, and the Best Microfiction Anthology, and her short story collection HOME IS A MADE-UP PLACE won Hidden River Arts' Eludia Award. She is creative nonfiction editor at The Citron Review and lives in Seattle with her family where she is working on her next book.   More about Ronit: https://ronitplank.com Sign up for monthly podcast and writing updates: https://bit.ly/33nyTKd Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ronitplank/ More about WHEN SHE COMES BACK, a memoir: https://ronitplank.com/book/ More about HOME IS A MADE-UP PLACE, a short story collection: https://ronitplank.com/home-is-a-made-up-place/ Connect with Ronit: https://www.instagram.com/ronitplank/ https://twitter.com/RonitPlank https://www.facebook.com/RonitPlank   Background photo: Canva Headshot photo credit: Sarah Anne Photography Theme music: Isaac Joel, Dead Moll's Fingers

Author Nicole Chung was born to Korean immigrants in Seattle and later adopted by a white couple in Southern Oregon. The 2018 memoir “All You Can Ever Know” follows Chung's exploration of her identity as a transracial adoptee as she searches for her birth family. Her second memoir, released earlier this month, covers the untimely deaths of her adoptive parents — first her father from kidney disease, then her mother from cancer in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic. “A Living Remedy” chronicles Chung's grief and rage as she reckons with ways financial instability and inadequate health care access contributed to her parents' deaths. Chung will be at Powell's City of Books on Thursday, April 20, for a conversation with Lydia Kiesling. She joins us to talk about her most recent work.

Jennifer Kim movingly narrates a raw and relatable memoir about grief and loss from Nicole Chung, author of ALL YOU CAN EVER KNOW. Host Jo Reed and AudioFile's Emily Connelly discuss Chung's story of moving away from her parents and starting her own family, and the heartbreaking loss of both of her parents. Kim's somber narration sensitively navigates the immense guilt and grief that Chung experiences having been far from her parents when they parents died and unable to help. Kim sharply captures Chung's pointed criticisms of the U.S. healthcare system that failed her family because of their economic status. Read the full review of the audiobook on AudioFile's website. Published by Harper Audio. Find more audiobook recommendations at audiofilemagazine.com Support for our podcast comes from Brilliance Audio's I Will Find You. Five years ago, David went to prison for murdering his son. But when a mysterious photo reveals that the boy might still be alive, he plans a harrowing escape to achieve the impossible. Can David save his son, prove his innocence, and finally uncover the dark truth about that devastating night? Listen to the new audiobook thriller from #1 New York Times bestselling author Harlan Coben and read by Steven Weber. Learn more at Audible.com/IWillFindYou Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nicole Chung's first memoir, All You Can Ever Know, recounts her story growing up adopted – a young Asian American woman in a predominantly white town in Oregon — and her journey to retrace her roots. Her new memoir, A Living Remedy, takes a closer look at Chung's adoptive parents and their financial struggles throughout her life, up until they both died within a year of each other. As she tells NPR's Steve Inskeep, her grief coalesced with a deep resentment for the social systems she felt should've taken better care of her family.

Nicole Chung joins Maris Kreizman to discuss her new book, A Living Remedy, out now from Ecco Press. Nicole Chung is the author of the national bestseller All You Can Ever Know, which was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award, a semifinalist for the PEN Open Book Award, and an Indies Choice Honor Book. She is currently a contributing writer at The Atlantic, and her work has appeared in numerous publications, including The New York Times, GQ, Time, The Guardian, Slate, and Vulture. Her new book is called A Living Remedy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

EPISODE 1402: In this KEEN ON show, Andrew talks to the author of A LIVING REMEDY: A MEMOIR, Nicole Chung about her experience of family, class and grief in an increasingly unequal America Nicole Chung is the author of the forthcoming memoir A Living Remedy (April 4, 2023) and the national bestseller All You Can Ever Know (2018). Named a Best Book of the Year by over twenty outlets, including NPR, The Washington Post, Time, and Library Journal, All You Can Ever Know was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award and NAIBA Book of the Year, a semifinalist for the PEN Open Book Award, a Barnes & Noble Discover Great New Writers selection, and an Indies Choice Honor Book. Nicole is currently a contributing writer at The Atlantic, a Time contributor, and a Slate columnist. Her writing has also appeared in The New York Times, The New York Times Magazine, The Guardian, GQ, The Cut, and Vulture. Born and raised in the Pacific Northwest, she now lives in the Washington, DC area. Named as one of the "100 most connected men" by GQ magazine, Andrew Keen is amongst the world's best known broadcasters and commentators. In addition to presenting KEEN ON, he is the host of the long-running How To Fix Democracy show. He is also the author of four prescient books about digital technology: CULT OF THE AMATEUR, DIGITAL VERTIGO, THE INTERNET IS NOT THE ANSWER and HOW TO FIX THE FUTURE. Andrew lives in San Francisco, is married to Cassandra Knight, Google's VP of Litigation & Discovery, and has two grown children. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Have you heard the conventional narrative that parents who adopt are “saviors,” and kids who are adopted should feel unfettered gratitude? What impact does this narrative have when it comes to the complications many adoptees experience? In her recent conversation in the Atlantic with fellow adoptee Tony Hynes, writer Nicole Chung and Hynes dig into the nuances of trans-racial adoption, birth family connection and what it means to grow up hearing you were “saved.” They join us to rethink adoption narratives. Guests: Nicole Chung, author of "All You Can Ever Know" and the forthcoming "A Living Remedy;" writer of the column "I Have Notes" for The Atlantic Tony Hynes, Ph.D. candidate and training specialist in adoption; author of "The Son With Two Moms"

Listen to the Wendy and Grace interview the lovely Ginner Saint and how she generously shares her story with adoption. Resources Mentioned: The Primal Wound by Nancy Verrier: https://www.amazon.com/Primal-Wound-Understanding-Adopted-Child/dp/0963648004/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3Q8OQNMH6U42T&keywords=the+primal+wound&qid=1668521333&sprefix=the+primal+wound%2Caps%2C118&sr=8-1 The Connected Child by Karen Purvis: https://www.amazon.com/Connected-Child-healing-adoptive-family/dp/0071475001/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2YB2PDQBFBJNP&keywords=the+connected+child&qid=1668521398&sprefix=the+connected+%2Caps%2C108&sr=8-1 Before You Adopt by Christa Jordan: https://www.amazon.com/Before-You-Adopt-Questions-Should/dp/172939308X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=28CPMRSN60SMJ&keywords=before+you+adopt+christa+jordan&qid=1668521503&sprefix=before+you+adopt%2Caps%2C107&sr=8-1 All You Can Ever Know by Nicole Chung: https://www.amazon.com/All-You-Can-Ever-Know/dp/1948226375/ref=sr_1_1?crid=TDWL2HL4QDZB&keywords=all+you+can+ever+know+nicole+chung&qid=1668521561&sprefix=All+you+can+ever+know%2Caps%2C97&sr=8-1 Twenty Things Adopted Kids Wish Their Adoptive Parents Knew by Sherri Elderidge: https://www.amazon.com/Twenty-Things-Adopted-Adoptive-Parents/dp/044050838X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2AAP7IMJB7RDA&keywords=twenty+things+adopted+kids+wish+their+adoptive+parents+knew&qid=1668521612&sprefix=twenty+things+%2Caps%2C122&sr=8-1

Transracial adoption has increased over the years and the experience of being raised by adoptive parents of a different race is not without complications. Host Roy Wood Jr. chats with author of the book,  All You Can Ever Know, Nicole Chung, and author of the book, Surviving the White Gaze, Rebecca Carroll, about their first-hand experiences as transracial adoptees. They discuss their upbringings in predominantly white cities, why adoptive families often don't talk about race, and their lifelong journey navigating their racial identity.    Watch Nicole and Rebecca's original Daily Show  interviews with Trevor Noah: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MZ485tl33k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBGO0uPkQZYSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Nicole Chung is an editor, essayist, and the National Bestselling author of All You Can Ever Know, which was named a Best Book of the Year by nearly two dozen outlets, was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award for Autobiography, and was long-listed for the PEN Open Book Award.    Taylor Harris' work has appeared in TIME, O Quarterly, The Washington Post, Longreads, and The Cut, to name a few, and her memoir, This Boy We Made, was one of the Indie Next List's picks for January 2022.   These good friends delve into their approach to creative non-fiction, the emotional layers of parenting, and the mental health benefits of puppies and cheeseburgers.

Abby, a Korean adoptee recently got married and wants to have a baby — but she realizes she can't build her own family until unless she opens the Pandora's box of her own identity. That box — is Nicole Chung's book “All You Can Ever Know.”  Snooze fans- go to HelloFresh.com/snooze16 and use code snooze16 for up to 16 free meals AND 3 free gifts! Support for this podcast is made possible by Gordon and Dona Crawford, who believe that quality journalism makes Los Angeles a better place to live. This program is made possible in part by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, a private corporation funded by the American people.

Nicole Chung, author of the memoir All You Can Ever Know, joins us to discuss transracial adoption, family and writing in this classic episode.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Crimes against AAPI women are in the headlines—and for parents like writer Nicole Chung, the challenges of how to talk to kids about racism, violence and safety are very real. In this episode, host Brittany Packnett Cunningham sits down with Chung, the author of All You Can Ever Know and a contributing writer at The Atlantic, for a thoughtful discussion that starts there—and roams into transracial adoption, surviving the “colorblind” era, and why her phone starts ringing when things are at their worst. Plus, Brittany brings you the latest UNtrending News, and a remembrance of her friend Cora Faith Walker.Read Nicole's piece in The Atlantic, here: https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/i-have-notes/62115c1b3a37470020ce1c79/mourning-violence-against-asian-women/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Crimes against AAPI women are in the headlines—and for parents like writer Nicole Chung, the challenges of how to talk to kids about racism, violence and safety are very real. In this episode, host Brittany Packnett Cunningham sits down with Chung, the author of All You Can Ever Know and a contributing writer at The Atlantic, for a thoughtful discussion that starts there—and roams into transracial adoption, surviving the “colorblind” era, and why her phone starts ringing when things are at their worst. Plus, Brittany brings you the latest UNtrending News, and a remembrance of her friend Cora Faith Walker. Read Nicole's piece in The Atlantic, here: https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/i-have-notes/62115c1b3a37470020ce1c79/mourning-violence-against-asian-women/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's been one year since the Atlanta-area spa shootings that claimed eight lives, six of whom were Asian women. Guest host Elise Hu reflects on the event with Nicole Chung, author of the memoir All You Can Ever Know and a contributing writer for The Atlantic. They discuss their own experiences and the unprecedented violence that Asian Americans—especially Asian American women—are facing. Plus, are tech TV shows about failures and scams a worthy critique or part of the problem? Elise and Nitasha Tiku, tech culture writer for the Washington Post, discuss the latest TV adaptations of tech scandals: WeCrashed, Super Pumped, and The Dropout. Then, a game of 'Who Said That?' with Nitasha's friend and colleague Heather Kelly.You can follow us on Twitter @NPRItsBeenAMin and email us at ibam@npr.org.

Grab your favorite drink and come with us as we discuss all of our thoughts after reading All You Can Ever Know by Nicole Chung.Connect with us:IG: @booksopenglassesuppodcastFacebook: @Booksopen Glassesup

This episode is all about books! And it's the last episode of the year. My next episode will be January 6, 2022. Happy holidays! As of December 5, I read 51 books this year. I will likely finish book #52 this week, but I probably won't hit my goal of 60 books in 2021, which is OK. I set a goal just because I have fun tracking my books along the way. In this week's episode, I rank my top 10 books of the year — all were published in 2021. I then give you two extras that I loved this year that were published in 2020. I also mention a few other 2021 books that I haven't read and that don't seem like my cup of tea but that you might want to check out. And, I mention a few 2021 books that I really want to read but haven't gotten to yet. Then I finish up by listing a few 2022 books that I'm looking forward to. Listen to the episode to hear my top books of the year in ranked order — what will be my #1?! However, all of the books I mentioned in this episode are in the list below.   Fiction Writers & Lovers by Lily King The Sun Down Motel by Simone St. James Eight Perfect Murders by Peter Swanson 56 Days by Catherine Ryan Howard The Last Thing He Told Me by Laura Dave What Comes After by Joanne Tompkins Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir The Martian by Andy Weir The Paper Palace by Miranda Cowley Heller When the Stars Go Dark by Paula McLain What Could be Saved by Liese O'Halloran Schwarz Hamnet by Maggie O'Farrell The Push by Ashley Audrain The Reading List by Sara Nisha Adams Matrix by Lauren Groff Fates and Furies by Lauren Groff Hell of a Book by Jason Mott My Monticello by Jocelyn Nicole Johnson All the Lonely People by Mike Gayle The Family Plot by Megan Collins   Non-fiction The Promised Land by Barack Obama Once I Was You by Maria Hinojosa (memoir) Know My Name by Chanel Miller (memoir) All You Can Ever Know by Nicole Chung (memoir) The Little Bookstore of Big Stone Gap by Wendy Welch (memoir) Four-Hundred Souls: A Community History of African America, 1619-2019 by Ibram X. Kendi and Keisha N. Blain The Premonition by Michael Lewis The Big Short by Michael Lewis Moneyball by Michael Lewis The Blind Side by Michael Lewis Paradise: One Town's Struggle to Survive an American Wildfire by Lizzie Johnson Crying in H Mart by Michelle Zauner (memoir) How the Word Is Passed: A Reckoning with the History of Slavery Across America by Clint Smith   2022 Books I'm Anticipating: Brown Girls by Daphne Palasi Andreades (publishes January 4) A Flicker in the Dark by Stacy Willingham (publishes January 11) Nine Lives by Peter Swanson (publishes March 15) The Book of Cold Cases by Simone St. James (publishes March 15)   Resources: Support Deliberate Freelancer at Buy Me a Coffee. Subscribe to the Deliberate Freelancer newsletter. Episode #104 of Deliberate Freelancer: Best Books of 2021 So Far—and New Releases This Fall Episode #87 of Deliberate Freelancer: My Most Anticipated 2021 Books (and Fave 2020 Books) Episode #69 of Deliberate Freelancer: 9 Nonfiction Books that Improved My Freelance Business Episode #17 of Deliberate Freelancer: My Favorite Books of the Year So Far (2019) American Society of Journalists and Authors (ASJA) fall membership drive. Use the code: 2021FALLDRIVE ASJA Membership FAQs

We're reading All You Can Ever Know by Nicole Chung

A conversation with writer Nicole Chung about challenging the narrative of her adoption story in her memoir “All You Can Ever Know,” processing grief and why it's so hard to talk about racism. Guest photo by Erica Tappis.

A conversation with writer Nicole Chung about challenging the narrative of her adoption story in her memoir “All You Can Ever Know,” processing grief and why it's so hard to talk about racism.

This week, Nicole Chung discusses her memoir All You Can Ever Know with fellow writer Rebecca Makkai. This conversation originally took place November 27th, 2018 and was recorded live at the American Writers Museum. We hope you enjoy entering the mind of a writer. VIEW ALL PODCAST EPISODES HERE

This week, Nicole Chung discusses her memoir All You Can Ever Know with fellow writer Rebecca Makkai. This conversation originally took place November 27th, 2018 and was recorded live at the American Writers Museum. We hope you enjoy entering the mind of a writer. VIEW ALL PODCAST EPISODES HERE

For the tenth episode of the pod, David is joined by wedding photographer, college campus minister, momma of two, and his wife, Kaitlyn Phipps. The two of them have some honest back and forth as they delve into interracial marriage, raising their kids, and what role white people have in conversations about racial justice. Later, they recall a couple of weddings that they've photographed together that had huge impacts on their cultural perspectives, as well as discuss the need for white people to stay engaged and outspoken. Finally, they finish with recommendations as well as another set of (surprise) "Rapid Fire" questions! Show Notes: "Small Great Things" https://www.amazon.com/Small-Great-Things-Jodi-Picoult/dp/0345544951 "The Hate U Give" https://www.amazon.com/Hate-U-Give-Angie-Thomas/dp/0062498533 Little Fires Everywhere https://www.hulu.com/series/little-fires-everywhere-bce24897-1a74-48a3-95e8-6cdd530dde4c "All You Can Ever Know" https://www.amazon.com/All-You-Can-Ever-Know/dp/1936787970

In this month’s episode, host April Dinwoodie sits down with writer, editor and author of “All You Can Ever Know,” Nicole Chung to discuss adoption, identity, and the mother of all holidays, Mother’s Day!

Nicole Chung is a writer, the Editor-In-Chief of Catapult Magazine, and a Korean transracial adoptee, raised by a white family in Oregon. In her bestselling memoir, All You Can Ever Know, Nicole describes the process of searching for her Korean birth parents, which happened in tandem with the birth of her own child. In confronting her childhood and reevaluating the messages around adoption she had absorbed growing up, her memoir examines themes of belonging and connection. In this conversation, Eugene talks with Nicole about her changing understanding of family and whether it's possible to have closure on emotionally fraught experiences. They also discuss it means to publish one’s personal narrative for public consumption, where others can look to it for guidance and comfort but also pass judgement on the intimate emotions of an author’s life. Transcript: https://dividedfamiliespodcast.medium.com/writing-a-transracial-adoption-story-for-an-audience-with-nicole-chung-cb3ae8a06967 Buy All You Can Ever Know at your local bookstore: https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781948226370 For updates, follow us on Instagram at @DividedFamiliesPodcast, and contact us at dividedfamiliespodcast@gmail.com This episode was edited by Katherine Moncure.

David catches up with acquaintance and new friend, Debbie Carlier, to discuss their different upbringings as Asian Americans. They discuss how we should be addressing the sudden rise in Anti-Asian racism and violent attacks on Asian Americans in the US, as well as why it's so important to understand our history. Show Notes: Minari Movie: https://a24films.com/films/minari Raya and the Last Dragon: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5109280/ Crash Landing on You: https://www.netflix.com/title/81159258 Always Be My Maybe: https://www.netflix.com/title/80202874 https://stopaapihate.org/ https://www.asianamericanchristiancollaborative.com/ "The Origins of Others" by Toni Morrison: https://www.amazon.com/Origin-Others-Charles-Norton-Lectures/dp/0674976452 "All You Can Ever Know" by Nicole Chung: https://www.amazon.com/All-You-Can-Ever-Know/dp/1948226375/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=all+you+can+ever+know&qid=1615152344&s=books&sr=1-1

On Season 2, Episode 1 of the Adoptee Thoughts Podcast, Nicole Chung, and host, Melissa Guida-Richards discuss their experience with losing a loved one as an adoptee, as well as their writing process. Nicole shares some of her story as an adoptee, and advice for adoptees looking to get into writing. Nicole’s Bio: Nicole Chung is the author of the nationally bestselling memoir All You Can Ever Know (Catapult, US; Pushkin Press, UK). Named a Best Book of the Year by two dozen publications, All You Can Ever Know was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award, a semifinalist for the PEN Open Book Award, an Indies Choice Honor Book, and an official Junior Library Guild Selection. Chung’s writing has appeared in The New York Times, The New York Times Magazine, The Guardian, GQ, TIME, Longreads, and Vulture, among others, and she also writes a weekly Care and Feeding advice column for Slate. She is the editor-in-chief of the National Magazine Award-winning Catapult magazine and the former managing editor of The Toast. Her next book is forthcoming from Ecco Books/HarperCollins. Find Nicole on Twitter: @nicolesjchung & Instagram: @nicolesjchung_________ To read more of the work by your host Melissa Guida-Richards, check out guida-richards.com, or the podcast's website adopteethoughts.com. Social:TwitterInstagramFacebook Mailing List: Subscribe Here

Host Luke Burbank and Elena Passarello dream up their post-pandemic travels; star and co-creator of Broad City Abbi Jacobson recounts the highs and lows her solo cross-country road trip, as illustrated in her New York Times bestselling essay collection I Might Regret This; writer Nicole Chung discusses her journey to discover the difficult truth behind her own adoption, which formed the basis of her debut book All You Can Ever Know; and seven-piece soul ensemble The Dip perform their single “Atlas.”

Nicole Chung, author of the memoir All You Can Ever Know, joins us to discuss transracial adoption, family and writing. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://news.iheart.com/podcast-advertisers

This week on the Handsell, Jenn recommends All You Can Ever Know by Nicole Chung. Trigger warnings: mention of past child abuse, bullying, racial slurs This episode is sponsored by Epic Reads and The Stepping Off Place by Cameron Rosenblum. Subscribe to the podcast via RSS, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Stitcher.

In a landmark ruling handed down at York County Court, housing benefit discrimination has been judged unlawful and in breach of the Equality Act. Research carried out by the charity Shelter shows that ‘No DSS’ policies put women and disabled people at a particular disadvantage, because they are more likely to receive housing benefit. The historic hearing took place virtually on Wednesday 1 July, involving 'Jane' (not her real name) a single mother of two. After a letting agent refused to rent any properties to her because she receives housing benefit, Jane contacted Shelter’s Strategic Litigation Team to take on her case. Jane Garvey discusses the issues with solicitor Rose Arnall, and Polly Neate, Chief Executive, Shelter. Nicole Chung was born severely premature, placed for adoption by her Korean parents and raised by a white family in a sheltered Oregon town in the US. From childhood she was told that her biological parents had made the ultimate sacrifice hoping that she would have a better life. She considered that she would always feel out of place as a trans-racial adoptee until she began to wonder if the story she had been told was the whole truth. All You Can Ever Know is her memoir of adoption. The writer and broadcaster Sali Hughes has been talking to women about objects in their lives that are important to them. The things we cherish aren’t always vintage, antique - or even expensive. Instead we treasure the stuff that reminds us of special people, particular times in our lives, or which stand for something important. Today it’s the turn of Rachel Eling. After the recent news of poor working conditions at a UK factory that could have helped fuel a local spike in COVID-19 cases in Leicester, we are reminded yet again of the consequences of fast fashion and the boom in online ordering. Campaigners and those in the industry are grasping the opportunity to raise awareness of the problems in global clothing production and are trying to change consumer habits. Jane is joined by Prof Dilys Williams, the founder and director of the Centre for Sustainable Fashion, and Aja Barber, a personal stylist and style consultant whose work focuses on sustainability and ethics.

Amanda and Jenn discuss series to get excited about, 8th grade read-alouds, Star Wars read-alikes, and more in this week’s episode of Get Booked. This episode is sponsored by Book Riot Insiders, the digital hangout spot for the Book Riot community, Care/of, and The Patient by Jasper DeWitt. Subscribe to the podcast via RSS, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Stitcher. Feedback Anna K by Jenny Lee  (TW: underage substance abuse & alcohol) (rec’d by Nicole) The Need by Helen Phillips (rec’d by Courtney) Questions 1. Everything I was excited about doing this summer has been canceled, and I’m now suffering from a lack of things to look forward to. I was wondering if you could recommend a great series that has another book coming out a few/several months from now so I can read the book(s) that already exist and then eagerly anticipate the next installment! Some things I like include high fantasy, woman (or nonbinary) authors and characters, LGBTQness, and audiobooks. Thanks! –Emma 2. Hello!  My mom is an avid reader, definitely gravitating toward mystery/thrillers, historical fiction and most specifically anything by Eric Larson.  She has already devoured his newest book, The Splendid and the Vile, and has read nearly all of his backlist.  Do you have any author comps for Larson that I could pass on to her?   Thanks!! –Rachael 3. I’m looking for books that would make great read-alouds for my 8th grade English/Language Arts class.  I’ve been teaching for five years, and I’ve always done the same read-alouds each year: Love that Dog by Sharon Creech, Bronx Masquerade by Nikki Grimes, A Long Walk to Water by Linda Sue Park, and Cheaper by the Dozen by Frank B. Gilbreth Jr. and Ernestine Gilbreth.  I’d like to change it up with some newer books as the ones I mentioned above are aging out; as my students have pointed out: “None of these characters even have a cellphone!”  Some preferences I have for our read-alouds:   interesting characters that help my students experience lives that are different from their own (I teach in a small town in Minnesota) minimum cursing (see above about teaching in a small town in Minnesota) engaging storylines that get students excited to hear what happens next bonus points if the chapters are shorter so I have natural stopping points each day Thanks for your help! Love the show! –Grace 4. Hello! I love the podcast and I have gotten soooo many good recommendations (both from a couple of asks that I have made previously and just from listening every week). I recently lured my wife into being a bookworm (I even got her on Libby, the proudest moment of my life!). She has gone from maybe reading 1 book in a year to tearing through about 30 books and graphic novels (the gateway drug!) in about 3 months time. The problem: she’s starting to run out of material! She’s pretty set for the next few months, but might run out of books to read over the summer. Her birthday is August 2nd and so I’m hoping to pick up some new books for her by then. She LOVES Star Wars and that is what the vast majority of her reading so far has been. She is looking for ideas for books, especially if they are series, outside of Star Wars, but that give her some of the same things that she loves about Star Wars. Things she likes about Star Wars: all of the aliens and creatures, good vs. evil, and the world-building. Things that she didn’t specifically identify when I asked her what she liked, but are definitely elements that I know she likes: strong female leads and found family (but who doesn’t love those things?!). Bonus for good queer representation, which is very obviously lacking in Star Wars. She is a bit of a weeny and doesn’t like things that are scary (sometimes Doctor Who episodes scare her, so you be the judge…) or have a lot of gore. Some things that I have thought to recommend to her were the Becky Chambers books and Saga (if she ever thought that she could get past the violence and gore).  Thank you!!!!!!!! –Heidi 5. Hi! I am a new listener and am thoroughly enjoying listening to the show! I just got married in November and my husband and I will be honeymooning to Austria at the end of June. I LOVE travel books in general, but would really like to read some fiction/historical fiction about  Vienna and Salzburg. We are also going to try to do a day trip to Bratislava as well, so I would happily welcome a book set in Slovakia. Thank you! –Kira 6. I’m doing the 2020 Read Harder Challenge and I’m looking for a book for the disabled protagonist task, specifically a Native American protagonist. I’m Native and one of my New Year’s reading resolutions is to read more books by Native Americans, so I’m trying to choose books by/about Native Americans for as many of the challenge tasks as possible. I’ve read Absolute True Story of a Part-Time Indian, but I’m trying to avoid reading any more Sherman Alexie since the MeToo stories about him. Thanks in advance. –Cheryl 7. Hello! I was wondering if you have any recommendations for books where adoption is a main theme. Many of the books I’ve found are a bit outdated or cheesy and instructional. I recently pickup up Nichole Chung’s “All You Can Ever Know”. I also found “Motherhood So White” on book riot’s website. My husband and I are starting to look into adoption as a way to be parents and I’d love to find some insightful stories or memoirs (or even fiction), preferably that feature diversity of story, race, and background. Thanks in advance for the help!  –Lauren Books Discussed The Khorasan Archives by Ausma Zehanat Khan (tw slavery) The Poppy War series by RF Kuang (tw: war crimes incl. rape and genocide) SFF Yeah: Most Anticipated Series episode The Dead Duke, His Secret Wife, and the Missing Corpse by Piu Marie Eatwell TheRiver of Doubt by Candice Millard Escape from Aleppo by NH Senzai (tw war) Clean Getaway by Nic Stone Bonds of Brass by Emily Skrutskie Murderbot by Martha Wells The City in the Middle of the Night by Charlie Jane Anders The Tobacconist by Robert Seethaler, trans Charlotte Collins (tw Nazis) A Perfect Spy by John Le Carré Fool’s Crow by James Welch (rec’d by Jeff) (tw war crimes) There There by Tommy Orange (TW: gun violence and rape) Welcome Home, edited by Eric Smith Yes, Chef by Marcus Samuelsson

Introductory podcast - who we are and what we're aboutDanielle is a graduate student at the Seattle School of Theology and Psychology, getting her Master's Degree in Counseling. She is a mother and wife. She is about having conversations about trauma in communities, race and class, and imagining a different future. Maggie is currently being trained at the Allender Center for Narrative Focused Trauma Care. She is also a mother and wife. She is all about stories and bringing to light things that are hidden. Both are committed to truth telling, being a place where the exiled are welcome, creating a space for shared power. Who is our audience?This podcast is for people who are curious, who are aware or wanting to to become aware about the things that are happening in our society. People who want to hear from marginalized voices. All genders and races. People who are looking for leadership next steps.What are the barriers to these important conversations?Personal and societal expectations. As women who are educated, dominate and influential we can be seen as "aggressive," brazen and other words that start with a B....Selective Theology and interpretations. Power.  Traditions. We are not afraid of information or learning, we welcome it. We hope to create a community of people who are willing to sift through and discern, engage and challenge the dominate culture and the main stream narrative in meaningful and practical ways. We are for people who are seeking connection. CONNECT WITH US! We want to hear from you! You can find us at www.thearisepodcast.comfacebook: The Arise Podcast with Danielle Castillejo and Maggie HemphillInstagram @thearisepodcastDanielle's website: www.daniellescastillejo.comMaggie's website: www.maggiehemphill.comMaggie is reading: All You Can Ever Know by Nicole CheungDanielle is reading: The Color of Compromise by Jemar TisbyReign Rain by Ann MartinMaggie is listening to: Jen Hatmaker's for the Love Podcast, Ask NT Wright, Truth's Table "You Ok Sis?"Danielle is listening to: Shaun King's the Breakdown, Lead Stories Podcast with Jo Saxton and Steph O'BrienMaggie is inspired by: Danielle. Jemar Tisby.Danielle is inspired by: Jo Saxton and Pastor Steph who lead and don't do it alone. Also the Allender Center's work with trauma care. Music by Chase Estes.

This week marks the release of "All You Can Ever Know" by Nicole Chung on paperback. Chung, 38, sat down for an interview earlier this year during the Korean American Adoptee Adoptive Family Network conference, where she gave the keynote. Her book, published by Catapult, is a memoir of her life growing up as a Korean transracial adoptee and how she navigated coming to terms with her own identity while struggling to make sense of how the outside world wanted her to feel. 

David speaks with writer Nicole Chung about her memoir, "All You Can Ever Know," which is out now in paperback.Shownotes:(2:20) Nicole Chung interview(49:30) Weekly recommendations-When GoFundMe gets uglyLinks:Buy Nicole Chung's book, All You Can Ever Know, at Amazon, IndieBound, and Apple Learn more about Nicole's work Follow Nicole Chung on TwitterLet me know your feedback for the podcast by emailing culturallyrelevantshow(AT)gmail(DOT)com.Follow the show on Twitter.Find every episode of the show at CulturallyRelevantShow.com.This episode was produced and edited by David Chen and powered by Simplecast.

10/5/19:40 News3:59 how there are multiple sides to every story (4:51 cars banned from 14th Street in Manhattan; 10:55 Universal Orlando fires actor for using ok symbol; 17:24 two books about adoption (All You Can Ever Know, Motherhood So White; 19:52 CA Assembly Bill 5 gig workers as actual employees)29:40 driving and road rage50:15 Tip of the Week

Adoption is a complex, multi-faceted issue. Mark and Jess explore the topic while discussing their reactions to the fantastic debut, "All You Can Ever Know: A Memoir", by adoptee author Nicole Chung. They also discuss how deadly green bean casserole is and how much David French sucks. *This is a bonus episode for Patreon subscribers. To subscribe, please go to: www.patreon.com/planamag TWITTER: Jess (@cogitatotomato ) Mark (@snbatman) REFERENCED RESOURCES: "All You Can Ever Know: A Memoir" by Nicole Chung: https://www.amazon.com/All-You-Can-Ever-Know/dp/1936787970/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=all+you+can+ever+know&qid=1564633981&s=gateway&sr=8-1 "America Soured on My Multiracial Family" by David French: https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/08/america-soured-on-my-multiracial-family/567994/ SUBMISSIONS & COMMENTS: editor.planamag@gmail.com EFPA Opening Theme: "Fuck Out My Face" by Ayekay (open.spotify.com/artist/16zQKaDN5XgHAhfOJHTigJ)

Spark Central's Brooke Matson speaks with Nicole Chung, author of "All You Can Ever Know" before her Northwest Passages Book Club event.

Spark Central's Brooke Matson speaks with Nicole Chung, author of "All You Can Ever Know" before her Northwest Passages Book Club event.

Nicole Chung discusses life as an editor in chief for Catapult Magazine and writing her memoir All You Can Ever Know. She shares how long it took to write the proposal and the book as well as navigating book tours, writing about adoption as a transracial adoptee. Packed full of writing and editing tips Nicole also shares what she's looking for as the editor in chief of Catapult Magazine. Nicole Chung has written for The New York Times, GQ, Longreads, BuzzFeed, Hazlitt, and Shondaland, among other publications. She is the editor in chief of Catapult magazine’s editor in chief and the former managing editor of The Toast. She currently lives in the Washington, D.C., area. All You Can Ever Know is her first book. Follow her on Twitter at @nicole_soojung.

We discuss into everything pregnancy related: what we loved, our biggest challenges, cravings and aversions, favorite splurges, and the resources we recommend.Maternity underwear from Kindred BravelyPregnancy pillowThe Longest Shortest Time podcastMindful Birthing: Training the Mind, Body, and Heart for Childbirth and Beyond by Nancy Bardack and the accompanying guided meditationsExpecting Better: Why the Conventional Pregnancy Wisdom is Wrong--and What You Really Need to Know by Emily OsterLife latelyAbby is loving prenatal yoga, both as a student and a teacher.Sarah is happy to have invested in pelvic floor physical therapy.Reading latelyAbby loved Nicole Chung's memoir All You Can Ever Know and Sarah finished The Nightingale by Kristin Hannah.Eating latelySarah is thankful the internet saved pizza night with this no-yeast pizza crust recipe.Abby's whole family is enjoying chili nachos.If you’d like to join in the conversation, please leave us a comment, email us at friendlierpodcast@gmail.com, or find us on Instagram @friendlierpodcast. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

All You Can Ever Know is an emotional memoir on adoption and identity by Nicole Chung. It is also this week's pick for The Stacks Book Club. We are again joined by author Vanessa McGrady (author of Rock Needs River) to discuss All You Can Ever Know. We talk about transracial adoptions, adoption mythology, and expectations versus reality. There are spoilers this week, listen at your own risk, or check out The Short Stacks feature author Nicole Chung, which is spoiler free. Everything we talk about on today's episode can be found below in the show notes. The Stacks participates in affiliate programs, and shopping through the links below (mostly Amazon) helps support the show, at no cost to you. All You Can Ever Know by Nicole Chung"The Short Stacks 6: Nicole Chung//All You Can Ever Know" (The Stacks) Rock Needs River by Vanessa McGradyRoots by Alex Haley"What Not to Say to an Adoptive Mom" (Vanessa McGrady, Mom.me)Crayola Multicultural CrayonsEverything You Ever Wanted by Jillian Lauren Connect with Vanessa: Vanessa's Website | Vanessa's Twitter | Vanessa's Instagram Connect with The Stacks: Instagram | The Stacks Website | Facebook | Twitter | Subscribe | Patreon | Goodreads | Traci's Instagram To contribute to The Stacks, join The Stacks Pack, and get exclusive perks, check out our Patreon page. We are beyond grateful for anything you're able to give to support the production of this show. If you prefer to do a one time contribution go to paypal.me/thestackspod. Sponsors Audible- to get your FREE audiobook download and FREE 30 day trial go to audibletrial.com/thestacks. My Mentor Book Club - for 50% off your first month of new nonfiction from My Mentor Book Club go to mymentorbookclub.com/thestacks The Stacks participates in affiliate programs. We receive a small commission when products are purchased through links on this website, and this comes at no cost to you. Shopping through these links helps support the show, but does not effect opinions on books and products. For more information click here.

Today on The Short Stacks author Nicole Chung joins us to discuss her memoir, and The Stacks Book Club pick, All You Can Ever Know. The book addresses her transracial adoption, her decision to find her birth family, and becoming a mother. Nicole shares with The Stacks the chaotic setting in which she wrote the book, why she felt compelled to tell her story, and much more. There are no spoilers this week, so listen and enjoy, and then come back on Wednesday to hear our TSBC conversation around All You Can Ever Know. Everything we talk about on today's episode can be found below in the show notes. The Stacks participates in affiliate programs, and shopping through the links below (mostly Amazon) helps support the show, at no cost to you. All You Can Ever Know by Nicole ChungThe Stacks InstagramThe Free Black Woman's Library | Wishlist Prisoners Literature Project | WishlistThe Stacks Book Drive & Giveaway DetailsParkland by Dave Cullen Columbine by Dave CullenCatapult MagazineThe Babysitter's Club by Ann M. MartinThe Mistress's Daughter by A. M. Holmes"The Mistress's Daughter" (A. M. Holmes, The New Yorker)Why Be Happy When you Can Be Normal? by Jeanette WintersonSurviving the White Gaze by Rebecca Carroll (2020 Release)Lucky Girl by Mei-Ling HopgoodThe Language of Blood by Jane Jeong TrenkaThe ToastNicole CaputoDonna ChengTrevor Noah"The Daily Show -- Nicole Chung, October 11, 2018" (Comedy Central)Born a Crime by Trevor NoahCeleste NgAlexander CheeAmy TanKristi Yamaguchi Connect with Nicole: Nicole' Website | Nicole's Twitter | Nicole's Instagram Connect with The Stacks: Instagram | The Stacks Website | Facebook | Twitter | Subscribe | Patreon | Goodreads | Traci's Instagram To contribute to The Stacks, join The Stacks Pack, and get exclusive perks, check out our Patreon page. We are beyond grateful for anything you're able to give to support the production of this show. If you prefer to do a one time contribution go to paypal.me/thestackspod. Sponsors Audible- to get your FREE audiobook download and FREE 30 day trial go to audibletrial.com/thestacks. My Mentor Book Club - for 50% off your first month of new nonfiction from My Mentor Book Club go to mymentorbookclub.com/thestacks The Stacks participates in affiliate programs. We receive a small commission when products are purchased through links on this website, and this comes at no cost to you. Shopping through these links helps support the show, but does not effect opinions on books and products. For more information click here.

Courtney and Nicole Chung, author of the memoir All You Can Ever Know, discuss the missing perspective in adoption narratives, re-examining familial truths, and writing through grief.

It’s Sephora Sale season, and this week Kate and Doree break down what they might buy with that sweet, sweet discount. (Tubing mascara! A Dr. Jart set! And so much more.) Plus they discuss Kate’s nighttime phone addiction and her new sunrise alarm clock, Doree’s GAP underwear obsession, and the Sunday Riley fake reviews controversy.Then they welcome All You Can Ever Know author Nicole Chung, who talks about her adoption story and search for her birth family, connecting with other transracial adoptees, finding communities that fulfill you, and how she and her husband juggle parenting and their careers.Follow us on Instagram: @Forever35podcast, @katespencer, @doree, Twitter: @forever35pod, and in ourFacebook group (password is "serums"). All products mentioned on the show can be found on our website, Forever35podcast.com. To leave us a voicemail, call 781-591-0390, or you can email us at forever35podcast@gmail.com.This episode is sponsored by:HUM - To get 20% off go to humnutrition.com and use code Forever35.Thrive Market - Go to ThriveMarket.com/forever35 for 25% off your first order.Lightbox - To learn more visit Lightboxjewelry.com/forever35.ThirdLove - Go to ThirdLove.com/forever for 15% off your first purchase.Simple Health - Go to SimpleHealth.com/forever35 or use code forever35 at checkout to try it for free.Theme music by Riot. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Explore the complex emotions of adopted children in this memoir about family. Narrator Janet Song recounts the upbringing of author Nicole Chung, a Korean-American who was adopted by white Americans and raised in a small, mostly Caucasian town in Oregon. Song's narration is sensitive as she delivers details of subtle discrimination against Chung and her questions about her biological parents. This contemporary exploration of identity will resonate with many listeners. Published by HighBridge Audio. Read the full review of ALL YOU CAN EVER KNOW at audiofilemagazine.com For more free audiobook recommendations, sign up for AudioFile Magazine’s newsletter on our website. On today’s episode are Jo Reed and AudioFile Magazine editor Emily Connelly. Support for Behind the Mic comes from Grammy Award-winning publisher Hachette Audio, home to works by James Patterson, JK Rowling, Joel Osteen, David Sedaris, David Baldacci, Elin Hilderbrand, Michael Connelly, and many more bestselling audiobooks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this week’s episode: Review: Donna reviews the Audible edition of All You Can Ever Know, a memoir by Nicole Chung, narrated by Janet Song. This week: A missing Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi citizen and US Resident, may have recorded his own brutal murder at the hands of the Saudi regime by activating… Continue reading Dead to Writes ~ S2, E43: Leverage

Kanye West meets with President Trump, Jaboukie Young-White thinks the voting system is designed for old people, and author Nicole Chung discusses "All You Can Ever Know." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nicole Chung is a writer and editor. Nicole’s debut memoir All You Can Ever Know was released this month. In it, she tells the story of her life growing up as a transracial adoptee, of eventually finding and connecting with her birth family, and of becoming a parent, herself. In our conversation, Nicole and I talked about her wonderful book, our common experiences as Asian Americans, and about how to write a story that is still ongoing. Then in the second segment, Nicole and I talked about how we discuss race and identity with our kids. (Conversation recorded September 6, 2018.) Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Google Play | Stitcher | TuneIn | RSS Support: Support our Patreon | Leave a review Share: Tweet this episode | Share to Facebook Connect: Newsletter | Email | Facebook | Twitter | Tumblr Show Notes: Nicole Chung Nicole Chung - All You Can Ever Know: Catapult | IndieBound | B&N Nicole Chung - Events #ChannelOpenPod Nicole Chung - “Magic Can Be Normal” Nicole Chung - “What I Learned From Kristi Yamaguchi” Catapult The Toast Hyphen Celeste Ng - Little Fires Everywhere All You Can Ever Know Giveaway

Support Adoptees On One Time Donation | Monthly | Secret Facebook Group Nicole Chung shares with us about the complexities of growing up distinctly different from your adoptive family. In her new memoir, All You Can Ever Know, she explores her experience of pregnancy, search, and reunion which happen simultaneously. We discuss grief in adoption as Nicole recounts how she lost her adoptive father just as she was finishing up her final manuscript of All You Can Ever Know.   Full Show Notes Here Connect With Us Nicole Chung: Twitter | Instagram | Goodreads | nicolechung.net Haley Radke: Twitter | Instagram | Facebook Adoptees On: Twitter | Instagram | Facebook Subscribe Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | iHeart Radio | Spotify | Stitcher | YouTube Connect Monthly Newsletter | Send a Note or Record a Voicemail

What do you share with the world—and what do you hold back? How do you talk about family secrets or childhood trauma with strangers? And what happens when you bring more of your most personal experiences to your work? This week, we go deep on the power of getting personal—and the choices we have to make along the way. Before we start, Sara and Katel break some bad news: Jenn’s not here today, and it’s looking like she won’t be able to join us for the rest of the season. We’re sending some big hugs her way, but we have so much to talk about right now, we’re gonna keep on going. Our guest today is the incredibly kind, talented, and just plain fucking rad writer and editor Nicole Chung. She’s the author of the new memoir, All You Can Ever Know—which is on sale T O D A Y (ugh just buy it already). It chronicles her story of transracial adoption, growing up in a white family in small-town Oregon, and finding her birth family while starting to raise her own children. Reading it made us laugh and cry and fall even more in love with Nicole. In addition to being an author, Nicole is also the editor-in-chief of Catapult, a literary magazine, and the former managing editor of The Toast, everyone’s favorite weird-funny-feminist site. We had so much to talk with her about. Follow Nicole : Twitter | Insta > It was difficult to start sharing such personal stories about my family and about adoption and about racism that I’d experienced. And it’s not necessarily that I needed someone externally to validate them or to say, “this is legitimate, this really happened, this is important,” but I think just a little human kindness and, like, honestly went a very, very long way. The Toast was a fantastic community… Every time I wrote something there—I mean, both the goofy stuff like “If John Cho Were Your Boyfriend” and the more serious pieces on race or adoption or family—the response was overwhelmingly positive and supportive, and it was just really a privilege and a honor to get to edit and publish and write for that community at The Toast. I think it did make me braver. > —Nicole Chung, author, All You Can Ever Know Links from the interview Nicole’s longread about writing while grieving The long history of Oregon’s racist exclusion laws Love for Nicole’s editor, Julie Buntin at Catapult Nicole’s writing at The Toast, including If John Cho Were Your Boyfriend All You Can Ever Know, on sale now Also in this episode Chatting with Nicole got us thinking a lot about what it means to share your story with the world—in your writing, in a talk, or, say…on a podcast. So we dive into some of our own stories, and the choices we’ve made to tell—or not tell—them in our work. > You spend a long time purposefully not talking about it and reminding yourself to push it down, push it down, push it down that when it all comes back up and you’re purposefully sharing it, that feels weird. > —Sara We touch on: Our most recent newsletter, where Katel talks about being sexually harassed by a boss. The conflict between wanting to speak your truth, but finding it exhausting. As Emma Gray writes, “I am so tired of women having to mine their pain to convince men of their humanity.” Sara telling hundreds of strangers that she was sexually abused—in the middle of a design conference. Lisa Maria Martin’s great post on keeping politics out of your talk. Plus, did you know you can listen to books? Katel discovers the joy of audiobooks with Anne Helen Petersen’s Too Fat, Too Slutty, Too Loud: The Rise and Reign of the Unruly Woman. Meanwhile, Sara shares what she’s planning to read in her slippers this fall: Rebecca Traister’s new book, Good and Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women’s Anger, also out today! Dope Queen Phoebe Robinson’s new essay collection, Everything’s Trash But It’s OK, coming out later this month. Michelle Obama’s memoir, Becoming, due out in November. Sponsors This episode of NYG is brought to you by: Shopify, a leading global commerce platform that’s building a world-class team to define the future of entrepreneurship. Visit shopify.com/careers for more. Harvest, makers of awesome software to help you track your time, manage your projects, and get paid. Try it free, then use code NOYOUGO to get 50% off your first paid month. Transcript [Ad spot] Sara Wachter-Boettcher NYG is sponsored by Harvest, the tool I use to track time, manage projects and send invoices. You can even integrate your Harvest account with accounting software like Xero or QuickBooks. I’ve got to get that set up! Try Harvest for free at getharvest.com and if you like it half as much as I do, then use code NOYOUGO when you upgrade. That will get you 50% off your first paid month. That’s getharvest.com, code NOYOUGO. [intro music plays for twelve seconds] Katel LeDû Welcome to NYG, I’m Katel LeDû. SWB I’m Sara Wachter-Boettcher, and you probably noticed that Jenn’s not here today. And unfortunately it looks like she’s probably not going to join us for the rest of the season. She’s taking some time off from the podcast—as you know, she’s got a lot going on. But there’s just so much we still want to be talking about this fall. There’s political stuff—there’s the midterm elections, all the bullshit happening in the Supreme Court—and there’s also work stuff. Like me and Katel, we have started research for a little side hustle that we are hyped to start talking about with all of you. KL Plus I feel like we’re kind of getting good at this whole podcast thing. And we have so many rad people we still want to interview, so we’re going to keep going. Starting with today’s guest, Nicole Chung. She’s the author of the new memoir out now: _All You Can Ever Know_—about being adopted into a white family, raised in rural Oregon, and then deciding to find her birth family as an adult. We tried to keep cool, but we were total fan girls. SWB Talking to Nicole about writing a memoir just got me thinking a lot about my own writing. Especially—how I write about, and when I write about, personal stories. And I’ve done a little bit of that and I know Katel, you have too. In our last newsletter, you wrote about being sexually harassed by your boss and you told this story that really stuck with me where you just talked about him coming into your office and telling you how sexy it was that you spoke French and trying to get you to say something in French to him, which is all super gross and creepy. But I’m really curious—it was powerful for me to hear the specifics of what had happened and to sort of be able to see myself in that place with you and really feel for you there. And I’m wondering what it was like for you to write about it in that specific of a way? KL Gosh, I—it was definitely hard and also great I think, in a way. I remember writing the first draft and it was like three pages long because I—all of a sudden I just was remembering it and I hadn’t thought about that whole experience in a while. And all of a sudden I just was word vomiting out every, single detail and every aspect. And then—you know—I had to go through and kind of—I did a few second and third drafts thinking about what exactly I wanted to share and how I wanted to tell that story and—you know—make sure I was still kind of protecting myself. [2:44] SWB That’s something that’s hard to sort out—right? KL Yeah. SWB Like how much do you want to talk about your history and when and why you’re doing it. I think about this when it comes to bringing up my history with sexual abuse, which is something I’ve done a lot. I’ve mentioned it in one of my books and I’ve mentioned it in a lot of my talks on stage at conferences and I’ve talked about it on Twitter. But it’s interesting—you know—for a long time, I never really talked about the details. In fact, I remember the first time I brought it up, I was giving a talk and it was relevant to the topic I was talking about. I was talking about sort of being asked about that later in a form, but I acknowledged being sexually abused in this sort of very evasive way or sort of blink and you miss it sort of way, it was very easy to not have heard that that’s what I was doing if you weren’t paying attention so much to the talk. And that felt really hard for me at first, but it was almost like once I’d done it, I wanted to keep doing it. And sort of like half step at a time, talk about it in more specific detail or talk about it with a little bit more sort of ownership of it and not sort of making it be something that I am vaguely alluding to, but just saying it as it is. And so I feel like half step at a time, half step at a time, up to now—you know—recently I posted this Twitter thread about sort of like how we want to let men who’ve harassed ourselves or abused people sort of like come back into the fold. And I sort of talked about my experience and I talked about it more specifically than I had before. And still not that specifically, honestly, where—you know—it was a teenage neighbor boy who had sexually abused me for a long time when I was a really little kid and I’m thinking more and more that I want to tell that story in a deeper way and with that kind of detail that allows you to kind of—you know—understand what it was like, and also understand sort of the aftermath of that and kind of let go of some of the sort of long-standing shame that built up around it that I know I don’t deserve to have, but—you spend a long time purposefully not talking about it and reminding yourself to push it down, push it down, push it down that when it all comes back up and you’re purposefully sharing it, that feels weird. [4:59] KL Yeah, it totally does. And I think just talking about that whole idea of shame—you know—I think with your experience and as I wrote in the newsletter with mine—you know—this isn’t—this isn’t a new story, but it’s also when you think about the fact that as part of those stories and experiences, we weren’t believed or we were doubted that the thing that happened to us even happened to us. That makes it so much fucking harder and it’s like—I don’t know—I think that perpetuates the feeling of shame, it makes us feel like we can’t go into detail and that feels—that feels really terrible. I was sharing with you earlier that someone wrote to me after the newsletter went out and the first thing they said was just “I am so sorry that happened to you.” And that made me so relieved and feel very emotional because I think that that should be the absolute first thing that we start saying in this situation. Not—you know—surprise at like “oh my gosh, really?” It’s like “yeah, no, I’m so sorry, now let’s talk about it.” SWB You know, I don’t know that I’ve talked about this on the show before, but for about three years when I was in college I worked at a rape crisis center and I specifically worked in their education program, which meant I primarily talked to kids—middle schoolers was the number one audience we were able to get the okay from schools to go in and talk—to talk to them about sexual abuse and to talk to them about both child sexual abuse and things like consent. That’s a whole other show topic that we’ll get into at some point— KL [laughing] Yes. SWB —because actually I can’t believe we’ve never talked about this before. KL Yeah. SWB But one of the things that we learned very early on in the process of being trained to do this kind of work was to say literally that—right? “I’m sorry that happened to you.” There’s something powerful about it because it’s like there’s no question about whether it happened to you—right? And there’s no surprise, it’s more like there’s a tacit acknowledge that just exists that it happened. KL Yes. SWB And that is something that people need to hear because they’ve often heard so many messages from the people who have abused them or from culture at large that it doesn’t happen or it’s something to be shameful about. And to just be like “no, this happened and we can take that as a foundation that it happened and then talk about how we feel about it and what we’re going to do about it.” The other kinds of things we learned very early were conversations about saying very explicitly like “I believe you.” People are so afraid they’re not going to be believed, they’ve been told they’re not going to be believed, and then also “it’s not your fault.” Because that’s another one that often times abusers will tell people that it’s their fault—something they did—or other people will tell them that or that’s where the shame kicks in. And just you have to do a lot of work to counteract those messages. KL Yeah, to me when I hear that, it just boils my blood because it’s never a person’s fault when they’re harassed. Nothing you do ever warrants being harassed or abused, like that’s just—you can say that without having gender or anything in the mix. It’s like—we can all agree on that. [laughs] SWB Yeah—as we’re talking about all of this, it’s interesting. We started out this podcast saying this is really about work and about—you know—ambition and careers and sort of what drives us and it’s interesting because people have questioned me before about why I would bring up things like sexual abuse in a professional setting or why I want to talk about this stuff when I’m also wanting to talk about my career. But for me, the more we talk about this, the more clear it is that I cannot actually separate those. I can’t separate out the professional I am now from the little kid who experienced abuse, or from the college student whose first experience with public speaking was going into those middle schools to talk to kids. Those are all me and all of that experience directly informs the work that I do and what happened to you that you talked about on the newsletter—being sexually harassed by your boss happened to you at work. It’s directly tied to your career. And so I think it’s so valuable for us to kind of dig deeper on this stuff and think about the way that that does shape and drive the people that we are at work. KL Yes. I can’t separate the things that impact me at work from the work I do and I don’t want to. You know, I—when people talk about the idea of quote, unquote keeping politics out of work or anything we do, it’s like that question doesn’t even make sense to me. And it shouldn’t—you know—everything is political. SWB Yeah—our friend, Lisa Maria Martin—shoutout to Lisa Maria—she wrote this post a while back after a conference organizer had told speakers not to be political in their talks where she was basically like “look, that’s impossible.” Because you’re asking for this sort of false neutrality like, as you said, there is no neutral—because by defining what is and is not acceptable to discuss on stage, what’s political, what’s not political, what’s too political, you are making choices. So, she’s basically saying the conference organizer is making choices and those choices come down to politics themselves. “You are always excluding something,” she says, “or more likely, someone.” And—this is one of my favorite quotes—“for too many people in the world, their entire existence has been coded by society as too political.” And we are too political because we exist. Because we were harassed or abused, because we have periods, as we talked about a couple of episodes ago—right? We’re too political just being here and so if somebody tells us to not be political, then what they’re really saying to me is “don’t be.” [10:40] KL Yeah, completely. I am not interested in that. You know, the other thing that I think about when we’re talking about this, is I was just on a podcast where I talked about work and our podcast and [laughs] my therapist being on our show and we just—you know—dug into a lot of stuff. Plus I’m writing more in our newsletters, which I love, and that is really cathartic to talk and write about that stuff, but it’s also resurfacing trauma. And I mean I’ve talked about this with my therapist—you know—after writing some of the letters I’ve written for the newsletter, I’ve [laughs] gone into therapy and just been like [sighs] “oh my gosh, that was big” and she kind of looks at me and is like “yeah, that is big. You’re reliving it—you’re reprocessing it.” SWB Yeah and I think it’s really crucial to acknowledge that. That it is work to—to reprocess all this stuff and that that can be exhausting. So, for example, after—you know—[coughs] that guy that we have to call our president tweeted basically that if—if Kavanaugh had actually—had actually really assaulted Christine Blasey Ford, then why didn’t she report it at the time? So, women started posting all over Twitter—you know—all of the reasons that they hadn’t reported things that had happened to them. And there was this huge movement and then I saw a bunch of tweets talking about how tiring this was. So, there’s this one, for example, from this woman Emma Grey where she said—you know—“I’m so tired of women having to mine their pain to convince men of their humanity.” [KL sighs loudly] And that one really stuck with me like yeah, we shouldn’t have to mine our pain to convince other people that we exist and that we deserve to be treated better than this. KL Ugh, gosh yeah that—[laughs] that is so fucking true. And there’s no perfect recipe for this. I think that’s definitely true from what we’re talking about here and deciding how much time and emotional work you want to spend on, it is definitely part of the equation, but I’m choosing to share because I hope someone hears it and at the very least just is—knows that someone else has been through something that they’re going through. But we shouldn’t have to feel like we have to expose every little thing just to be believed. And I think we’re seeing way more women sharing things about themselves and it’s so inspiring, but we have to remember that that comes at a cost. SWB Absolutely. Like for—for me, I generally do want to share. Like I said, as I’ve shared more details about the things that have happened to me, it’s made me feel good and wanting to share even more. So, it’s something that I want to do, but I just—I guess I just want it to be acknowledged as work—right? It is labor. I’m choosing to employ a tool—that tool is my personal experience—and I’m doing it because I have a goal to help others and I have a goal of affecting change, but it is work and I want people to value that work and to understand that there is—you know—exhaustion that can come out of that work. And—you know—that’s actually something I really loved about talking with Nicole because it really feels like she shares so much of herself in her work and brings so much of her authenticity in. But I also noticed in our interview that she was really thoughtful about it. She’d really thought a lot about what she wanted to put on the table and what she wanted to keep to herself and so I loved her book, but I also loved the way that it got me thinking more about my own choices and thinking about how and if and when I share my personal history with the world. KL Yeah, she really got me thinking about how I process things and how writing can help you do that, but it can also distract you from it—you know—it can distract you from processing things. Plus Nicole’s just so open and giving, it was so amazing talking with her. [music fades in, plays alone for five seconds, and fades out] [Ad spot] SWB Time to take a quick break to talk about one of our favorite topics—careers! This week we’re bringing you a job search tip from Julia Hurrelmann, a recruiting researcher at Shopify. She’s here to give us her advice for writing a cover letter that gets noticed. What have you got, Julia? Julia Hurrelmann Thanks. Since I see so many applications, I wanted to give you my top tip for creating an awesome cover letter. Have a friend or even a neighbor review the letter, obviously to check for spelling and grammar. But also ask them to make sure your motivations are evident and most importantly that you haven’t minimized your experience or skills. We can be our own worst critics. Remember to tell your story and make it crystal clear why you felt compelled to apply. [15:17] SWB Thanks, Julia! Those are some great tips wherever you’re applying, especially if it’s one of the dozens of open roles at Shopify. See what’s new there, from marketing to mobile development in offices around the world. Visit shopify.com/careers to learn more. [music fades in, plays alone for five seconds, and fades out] SWB Today’s guest is Nicole Chung, author of the new memoir All You Can Ever Know, which is on sale right now. It chronicles her story of transracial adoption, growing up in a white family in small town Oregon and finding her birth family while starting to raise her own children. Nicole is also the editor in chief of Catapult, a literary magazine, and the former managing editor of The Toast. We have a lot to talk about. Nicole, welcome to No, You Go. Nicole Chung Thank you so much, Sara. Thank you, Katel. SWB It’s so great to have you here and first up, we’d definitely like to have you tell our listeners a little bit about your book and also really about your story. So, you were born in Seattle severely prematurely and you were then adopted into this family in Oregon. Can you tell us a little bit about that and about what you learned about your birth family while you were growing up? NC So, I actually didn’t know hardly anything about my birth family growing up, which was extremely common for adoptions of the time actually. Nowadays, a lot of domestic sort of infant adoptions are more open, but back when I was adopted, sort of the default was that it would be closed and there’d be no contact between the birth and the adoptive family. So everything I knew about them was sort of guesswork or it came secondhand through the adoption lawyer or through maybe the judge who finalized the adoption to my adoptive parents and then to me. My adoptive parents never met my birth parents, growing up—you know—I didn’t know their names, so what I was told about them was basically this sort of skeleton story, like a hard working immigrant story about how they came here from Korea, didn’t have much money. When I was born very prematurely they felt they didn’t have the resources to take care of me. One of the many effects of my early birth was that doctors thought I’d have a lot of health problems that I wound up not actually having. So—you know—they were letting my birth parents know kind of these different kind of worst case scenarios, I guess, because they were trying to really prepare them for what it could be like to raise me if I had all of these various problems and health challenges. And they really felt it was beyond them. So, this is the story that I heard growing up. It was not necessarily untrue for what it was, but [laughing] there were a lot of holes—right? Because nothing is really that straightforward or simple. So, when I set out to find them when I was an adult, one of the biggest reasons for searching was I was pregnant myself. I was pregnant with my first child and I just remember sitting there at my first prenatal appointment being asked all of these questions about my medical history and my birth and my birth mother’s pregnancy and why she gave birth so early and I had no answers to these questions—you know—I had no idea if this was going to happen to me, if I—you know—was maybe going to have a higher risk pregnancy or birth too. So, certainly one of the more pressing reasons to look when I did—apart from a lifetime of curiosity—was this really practical matter of “I’m in this exact position, I’m in the position she was in and I don’t feel prepared for what’s about to happen.” SWB One of the things that I really loved in the book was your experience—after you found them—getting quite close to your biological sister, Cindy. And something that—that really struck me was the way you wrote about that relationship. It was really moving to hear about both the connection that you have, but also, honestly, the anxiety that you felt as you were getting to know her. Sort of wondering if you were being too much, like too ready to be this super close sister to her and not being sure that she had the same sort of expectations or desires around the relationship. And I’m curious—how did it feel for you to lay out that relationship, to really lay it bare for your readers? NC It was honestly a gift. One of the best things I think that’s come out of this book is the chance to talk even more with my sister about it. Of course, the story of how we reconnected and how we grew close, we’ve kind of gone over and over again. It’s like our origin story, [laughs] we really like to sort of talk about it still, but—you know—as many times as we had been over it in the years since it happened, there were definitely some things that I wanted to follow up on, some things I wanted to check with her. Just more questions I had about her life and about her feelings, especially when she first started to learn about me and when we started to talk to one another long distance, especially because I was going to be writing it down for posterity and for—for wider audience, I wanted to make sure I had my facts straight. So it was just a great opportunity to go over all of that again and I did kind of just learn more about her—her life and how she thinks and what she was feeling about our reunion as it was happening. You know, just the other day we were talking and it was clear—you know—she said she felt really honored by the book, which is dedicated to her and to our kids, and I mean that just meant so much to me. I used to joke that if Cindy liked the book, I didn’t care if anybody else liked it [laughs] because her—how she felt about it was so important—you know—and I just feel really lucky both to have her in my life, and the fact that she really let me—not just let me, but encouraged me to write our story and has been so supportive of it and feels honored by it. That just means everything to me and it was a real privilege to tell not just my story, but her story too. [20:50] SWB Yeah, that’s so powerful to hear about because I think how—you know—how often do people get to have those kinds of almost incredibly vulnerable and honest and reflective conversations with their siblings. I mean, I guess all of us could, but we probably don’t [laughs] make the time for that that often and to really hear if the way that we remember things happening or what we understand to be true is also true for them and to kind of—you know—actually get on the same page. I love that and it makes me want to ask my brother some deep questions, but I don’t really have a reason to. [KL and NC laugh] NC Well, good luck with that! Yeah, it was—it was interesting too because I think both Cindy and when we—when we met face to face for the first time—you know—there was all this pressure. I remember our husbands would look at me and then look at her and then look back at me and I could just see them trying to catalogue the ways they thought we were similar and the ways they thought we were different. And I remember thinking, “oh what if she doesn’t like me? And what does that mean if your own sister doesn’t like you?” [laughs] And I’m an adult. It’s kind of late to change, I can’t make myself into this version of myself who would be less—just like not too much for her. [laughs] It’s—it was sort of very much a “well, this is who I am at this point” and she had been getting along okay without me is the thing. She really had. She had a full, happy life and I wasn’t sure if she would really need me in her life the way I felt I really wanted and needed her in my life. But as it turned out, she was feeling exactly the same way about me so everything [laughs]—everything worked out great. But I do remember thinking, “am I asking too much of this person?” Yes, we’re sisters, but we’re also kind of strangers and—you know—there’s no particular reason for her to feel this connection or want to let me in. So the fact that she did was just a real unexpected gift. SWB Yeah, so and I think what I’m also really interested in that you touched on a little bit there is that the process of writing a memoir that is so—you know—entangled with other people’s lives means getting—you know—getting into conversations with them about what happened then and how you write about it and also kind of dealing with potential fall out with them if the way the memoir comes out isn’t exactly how they would have liked it to come out. And I’d love to talk about that a little bit more because I was thinking about that a lot as I was reading about your childhood and—you know—writing about the parents who raised you. So—you know—you wrote in an essay a while back that you pictured your mom telling you that you had no right to do this, no right to turn them into characters. And then you said that she didn’t end up saying that, that she basically accepted that this was your story to tell and that your—your father did as well. And you wrote that you felt seen in that whole exchange with her and—and I’m wondering how important was that to you? And what was it like to hear that from her? NC Oh it was very important to me to be able to share the book with my adoptive parents and have them understand why I wrote it and not hate it. [laughs] I don’t know, sometimes I have—I feel like I set my expectations low so I won’t be disappointed, so—I mean—I wasn’t necessarily expecting them to love it or give it to all their friends, but I wanted them to feel generally okay with what I had shared and how I had shared it. Which isn’t to say—you know—I asked for permission to share certain things, it was more like—you know—the very first draft I had that I felt was okay and good enough to show to people, I showed to everyone. You know, I sent it to my sister and my birth father and I sent it to my adoptive parents. I didn’t really want them to be surprised later on and I wanted to have time—on the chance I did get something very wrong—I wanted them to have time to correct me if I really needed to make some changes to facts. So, my adoptive parents [laughs] took a while to read it. I think after like four or six weeks or something, I hadn’t heard anything and finally I was like “so, you know, I know that you’re really busy, but”—this is what I actually said—I said “it’s not like War and Peace, so like” [KL & SWB laugh] “like—like how’s it going with the book—you know? I’m here to talk about anything you want. I would love to know what you think.” There was no reason why—of course I had talked myself into thinking like in my anxiety silence meant that they hated it—but in fact, they were just extremely busy. [laughs] And they were—they were going slowly because they were reading it together, chapter by chapter. You know, my mom would read a chapter one evening and my dad would read the next chapter the next evening, so that’s why it was going slowly. And they were both so positive about it and really supportive and—you know—I think one thing I wanted to get really clear in the book—and this was not about placating anybody or pretty up my story in some ways—like I think I’m pretty honest about places where I wish things had been different, but—you know—one thing I think it was—it was always going to be important to get through was just how loved I felt growing up. I could not have had parents who loved me more and I kind of just wanted that to be clear because I think—I mean, not just because it’s the truth and not just because I love them—but because I think you have to understand our bond and how much they cared about me and saw me as theirs to understand why it was so hard for me to search. Like why—why it took me so long to get to that point, despite being really curious for so long. It was just so difficult for me to imagine having other parents or other family besides the one I had and I was really worried about what they would think and how they would feel if I searched. So—you know—I think my parents were really happy that that came through. They both really liked this chapter where I spent a lot of time sort of telling their story, like how they—I did write them as characters, but I wrote their story—how they met and got married really young and moved out west and wanted so badly to have a family—you know—it just kept not happening for them. And I think you have to understand that too—have to understand the stakes for them to see why my adoption felt like—not just like wish fulfillment for them, but like destiny or divine intervention almost. They—they really built it up in their minds because it was the culmination of what they had wanted for so many years. And again, without understanding that—you know—there’s no understanding kind of the pressure I felt and the decision to search and how—how long it took me to get there. But I loved—I loved writing that chapter about them. That is still one of my favorites in the whole book and I—my father passed away in January and I think that chapter is the hardest for me to read now, but I still really love to revisit it, I just—it was actually really, really fun to get to write that about my parents and to get to write about my childhood and how much they loved me. I think we were all doing the best we could—you know—and I think that does come through in the story. [27:35] SWB Yeah, I think I hear that as well and I’m—I’m so sorry for the loss of your father. I’m glad that he got to at least read that chapter. I know that he didn’t get to finish the whole draft, right? NC That’s right, I think he passed away pretty suddenly when they were about halfway through it. So, my mother’s read the entire book a couple of times, but my dad didn’t get to finish it unfortunately. He did—you know, because of how the book is laid out—he had read most of the parts that he was in. The second half of the book is—is much more focused on search and reunion. SWB I’m glad that they could feel the love coming from what you were writing. I think as a reader, I could definitely feel that and see the nuance that you were writing these people with. I think that that’s—you know—that’s something that I found really powerful because, of course, the story isn’t simple. And like you said—right—it sounds a little bit simpler on paper, but in reality it’s complicated and one of the things that certainly complicated it and that you—you wrote about pretty extensively was, of course, race. So, you were a child of Korean parents and then raised by a white family in a small Oregon town. I am also from Oregon… it’s not a super diverse place [laughs nervously] for a number of reasons, one of them is a history of racist exclusion laws that if folks haven’t heard about, they might want to look up. I didn’t learn about them until I was an adult. NC Yeah same, I learned in college. SWB Yeah I mean it’s—you know—I do remember when I—when I moved to Oregon, I was actually eight years old from San Jose and I remember thinking, as I looked around my new school, “where are all the Mexican kids?” [NC laughs] I just didn’t quite get it at first like, “this seems weird, this seems so different” and then over time it just became really normalized because, of course, I’m white and so once I was there for a while, I stopped thinking about it and that was fairly easy to do. Now, that wasn’t quite as easy for you to do because you weren’t white and because you were always the one who was different and I’d love to talk about that a little bit. You—you wrote in the book that you would go ages without seeing anyone who looked like you and that you would hear racist comments at school starting at a really young age. I’m really curious—as you were reflecting on your childhood and the place that you were from, did that make you sort of change the way you—you think about where you’re from or sort of process that history differently? [30:01] NC Well, I think I had already started—maybe in my early twenties, maybe even in college—to think harder about what it was like for me growing up in a—in a very white pocket of Oregon. And it wasn’t even just that—you know—my town was predominantly white. It was that I went to a parochial school when I was in elementary school, so it was much smaller even than the public schools would have been. And I think less diverse. It wasn’t—not to say that I would have gone to school with tons of kids of color—you know—in a public school, but—I mean—at this little Catholic school I went to, often it was just me—you know—for years. And that was definitely I think extremely isolating. I had already started to kind of think about that as a young adult and in college because my college experience, thankfully, was very different. You know, I went to school on the East Coast, I went as far from home as possible. It was diverse as far as college campuses go and I think 25% Asian and Asian American, so for the first time in my life, I was far from the only one. I could actually blend in in a crowd if I wanted to. It was amazing, [laughs] I loved it—I just loved it. It never got old. And so honestly the word I kept coming back to, especially in my early twenties, was sort of the harm that might have been done—inadvertently, it wasn’t like anybody—well, I guess except for people who said racist things, actually racist things. But for the most part it was not something that anyone or any group did to me in particular, it was just the overall atmosphere. The default was whiteness, it was what I was surrounded with all the time. I didn’t have the experience of having been anywhere else where it was different and so I was just always used to being the only one or one of very few. And I really didn’t start to kind of unpack what that meant and—and the direct harm I think it caused until I was older. That said, I was pretty aware in the moment as racist things were being said—you know—as kids would give me the chink eye in school or call me slurs or—you know—tell me to go back where I came from or say things about my adoption. I knew in the moment that that felt very bad, obviously, and I knew—I knew even then it wasn’t teasing. I never thought of it as teasing. I didn’t know to call it bullying or something else or racist for that matter, but to me it felt very different than say, being made fun of for wearing hand-me-down clothes, which had also happened to me. Or being made fun of for wearing glasses—you know—it really felt like what they were attacking and targeting was the essence of who I was. It was something unchangeable and fundamentally part of me. And I don’t know, having—having that happen, having that happen before I had the words to describe it to anybody was certainly harmful. It was isolating. I didn’t really know what to do with it and for years, I kind of just put up with it in silence I guess. I don’t remember really trying to tell many people about it. And—you know—my adoptive parents confirmed this. They said, “you never told us that specifically was happening. We knew you were unhappy at—at school, but we didn’t know that was why.” And so—I don’t know—it was this thing I felt like I think I had to protect them from it too—you know—because they did raise me to think that my race shouldn’t matter and that it wouldn’t matter to—I don’t know—it didn’t matter to them, it wouldn’t matter to other people, but I was being confronted with this daily proof that it did really matter to other people and I remember feeling like if I told them, they wouldn’t understand and it would make them feel bad. So—you know—even at a very young age, I was kind of trying to protect them from the reality of what was happening. SWB Yeah, the way you wrote about it in the book, it felt very much to me like they were trying to do their best and for them, what they perceived as doing their best was to pretend that your race didn’t exist and that that—you know—that that created all of these new problems for you. And I think—you know—when you talk about it as a harm, I think that that’s really powerful and it feels like part of that harm is also—you know—if the harm that’s being done doesn’t go acknowledged or understand, right? Like you don’t have anyone to talk about it who understands that it is harm. NC I think too my parents were sort of following—I mean I know they were following—the advice they were given at the time they adopted me. I felt like that was really important to put in the book. Not as a defense, just as a fact—you know—they asked several people—like experts—before I was adopted “does it matter that she’s Korean and we’re not? Is there something special we should be doing? I don’t know, are there books we should read or classes we should take?” And everyone told them no—the social worker, the judge. You know, they did try at several points to at least ask the question and—you know—all of these people told them “no, it doesn’t matter, just assimilate her into your family and it will all be fine.” And “assimilate” was really the word the judge used and that’s the word that my adoptive parents would remember and tell me later. So—again this is not like an excuse—but I think it was just very much the prevailing attitude of the day when it came to transracial adoptions like mine. You know, I think people were thinking it was important not to try and like—not to other the child. They were already going to be in the minority in a white family, so—you know—don’t call lots of attention to it because how would that make them feel? And yeah—I mean—that was really—that sort of colorblind line was the line most people in my adoptive family took, so it was a cue that I really tried to follow. It just—it was a lot harder for me for obvious reasons. [35:39] SWB Thinking about that—you know—obviously people have been writing about some of the problems with the colorblind approach in general. How has your sort of perception of—of transracial adoption shifted at this point? Or sort of what kinds of things do you want people to be thinking about and asking about and questioning? NC You know, I do try when I write about my personal experience or my life, I try hard not to be prescriptive or offer a lot of advice. I don’t feel like I have the training or the background—right—necessarily to do that. But there are a number of things I think are really important and to some degree I think are changing in adoption. I hear more these days about the importance of not just acknowledging, but celebrating a child’s culture and country of origin. That can look a variety of different ways, but I think it’s something that a lot of adoptive families feel comfortable with honestly because it’s the fun part. It is obviously way less fun and it’s much harder to really look hard and interrogate your communities, your schools, your churches and where you live and how you live and your social circle and think about if you were a non-white child—a child of color—entering these different circles and communities, what would your experience be? How would you feel? Would you feel comfortable? Would you find people who looked like you? You know, and that is a lot harder to do, it can be really uncomfortable. Also, I think it’s—it’s just hard as kids get older to talk about racism. I’ve been talking to my kids about it since they were verbal, but it is not always easy—you know—it can feel very difficult. It can sometimes feel heartbreaking and I understand this parental urge—right—to protect our children, but at the same time—you know—I think these are conversations that are so important that we can’t shy away from and—I mean—almost every parent of color I know talks to their kids about racism. It is unavoidable, it’s about survival and it’s about who they are as a person and what their experiences will be. It’s about being honest with them and we just—we do know from studies that a lot of white parents aren’t having these conversations or—you know—just find them really challenging. They are challenging, but if you’re the white parent of a child of color—you know—who is going to have the experience that a person of color has in this country, it’s absolutely something that you have to be able to talk about really honestly from a young age and not just wait for the child to bring up, but make it clear these topics are safe and they are always on the table and—you know—sometimes you’ll bring them up and sometimes your child might bring them up, but they have to know that they can come to you with these things. It is absolutely going to be relevant in their lives. Of course, even if it’s not relevant to how you love them, which it shouldn’t be. But yeah, I think there’s a tendency in adoption still to think that the differences are unimportant compared to the love. And I guess I would just say I think both of those things are really important. [laughs] And I think if you’re going to look at it realistically—you know—look at the child for the whole person that they are and think about what their experience is going to be. You know, these are conversations that you have to have before you adopt and then, obviously, after as they age in age appropriate ways. SWB I really appreciate you bringing up sort of the—the need for white people to have conversations about race. I mean, obviously, in this particular subject when it comes to transracial adoption, yes, but I think in general. And that’s something we’ve talked about on the show a few times where—you know—white people are the only people who get to choose [laughing] not to have conversations about race and then because of that, we’re really bad at it, right? Because we’re just incapable of having intelligent conversations about things that we are nervous about and have no practice in, no vocabulary for, etc. So I think it really underscores something that is true in so many different areas that if we learn to talk about race, that that is incredibly helpful and important. Something that you mentioned in sort of this conversation around how do you help adoptive kids stay in touch with the cultures of their birth families or at what level that happens. [39:52-41:20: Transcript unavailable] KL Yeah, I love hearing all of this. This is like—it’s just so cool to hear your story. I have a question about sort of the writing and publishing process because you recently talked about how this book was passed on by many publishers and for a while, you thought you might not even get to write it. What do you think changed for you or sort of in the market that you were working in? NC I mean, the first person in my acknowledgements is my editor, Julie Buntin at Catapult, and she deserves that place. She really fought for this book. I think even within Catapult—you know—I don’t know if everybody was immediately on board. I have no idea and I have not asked, but I know Julie always really wanted it. And she actually reached out to me even before I had a proposal and asked “hey, I really love your work, what are you working on? Are you working on a book?” [laughs and SWB laughs] And as it happened, I was, but I think honestly it took somebody with the kind of faith and commitment that Julie had to this book to get it to happen. All this to say, it is really wonderful to have a publisher that believes in your book even more than you do. I think—I’m not trying to sound self deprecating or falsely modest, but it’s such a deeply personal story—I am so close to it that it is difficult for me to evaluate it as a piece of literature. It just is. So, having really smart, really talented people in my corner the whole time sort of cheerleading for it made such a difference. I can’t imagine getting this kind of support—you know—from another publisher to be honest. I feel like all the things that other publishers thought were risks—like there aren’t very many Asian American memoirs out there, what if this only appeals to people who are actually adopted? I think that Catapult saw the things that made this book different in the marketplace as strengths and not risks. And I mean personally I very much hope that it’s well received, but also, I felt all along that I do not want to let them down because their faith in this book has just been extraordinary. And the way they continue to hustle for it—I mean, the fact that people are talking about it, that’s really because of their work, you know? So, I feel very lucky to have landed where I did. KL I think that makes so much sense and, you know, it’s funny Sara and I have recently been talking about how something that we’ve noticed with authors and just in general folks who are wanting to write more—whether it’s in book form or not—getting some external validation of, you know, the fact that [laughs] what you’re saying is—makes sense and is important is critical. And I think having a really good relationship with the publisher you trust is huge. NC It’s true. I really give them a lot of credit, honestly. This is a very different book. You know, there aren’t a lot of adoption stories out there by adoptees. For the most part, our stories are told by other people. And so I really do appreciate and give them so much credit for—I guess—taking a chance on this. SWB So, in talking about how the book came to be and sort of the people who helped make it happen, I also want to ask a little bit about The Toast, where you were the managing editor. NC Oh sure! SWB So, for our listeners who aren’t familiar, The Toast was a site that Nicole Cliffe and Daniel Ortberg started that featured really funny, weird, feminist writing is maybe the simplest way to put it. It’s not publishing anymore so if you haven’t read it, go check out the archives because you have a whole lot of delight in store for you. [NC laughs] Anyway, so Nicole you wrote for The Toast a little bit and then you ended up being the managing editor and you once wrote that without The Toast, you probably wouldn’t be writing this book. And I’m curious what it was about your experience there that made it feel so crucial in sort of your—your development as a writer and your ability to be where you are now. [45:05] NC Well, I think that one thing writers talk about a lot is the importance of community. And that can take so many different forms. You know, I don’t get to hang out with a lot of writers in real life. My first writing communities were really online. I mean, it was LiveJournal, to be honest, and it was Hyphen Magazine, and it was The Toast. So, I think I am really a product of these different communities I found. You know maybe I just kind of lacked some crucial shot of courage or something, but it was difficult to start sharing such personal stories about my family and about adoption and about racism that I’d experienced. And it’s not necessarily that I needed someone externally to validate them or to say, “this is legitimate, this really happened, this is important,” but I think just a little human kindness and, like, honestly went a very, very long way. The Toast was a fantastic community, the commentariat—much has been written about how it was one of the only good comment sections on the entire internet. It’s true that every time I wrote something there—I mean, both the goofy stuff like “If John Cho Were Your Boyfriend” and the more serious pieces on race or adoption or family—the response was overwhelmingly positive and supportive, and it was just really a privilege and a honor to get to edit and publish and write for that community at The Toast. I think it did make me braver, I think it made me appreciate the work of other writers so much more, and it made me think—I mean it was one of the things, maybe not the only thing, but one of the things that made me think, there is interest in this beyond people who were adopted or beyond people who have adopted. And people who are curious or have their own complicated families or have their own family secrets, they will be interested, they will be able to connect, they might get something from this. It could be a story that people need. So, yeah. It was not any one particular experience at The Toast, just the overall privilege—you know—of getting to work for that particular community. SWB Yeah, that concept of generosity rings so true to me because I do think that there is this peace that’s like really great editors and really great community make you feel like you are sort of receiving—even if you’re receiving something that objectively sucks like feedback on your work [laughs]—but you feel like you’re getting something that—that is—is good and enriching in some way and it feels like a gift. I think that that’s so powerful and to make that process come from this place of sort of genuine love and care and that—that I think is so much more powerful and so it completely shows. So, now fast forward to where we are right now. By the time our listeners hear this, the book will be out and there has been a lot of buzz for it. I saw that Publisher’s Weekly gave it a starred review and called it “stunning, vibrant and provocative,” which are some pretty good terms. And I saw it’s also on a lot of highly anticipated lists for the fall, so um… how are you feeling? NC I’m feeling really overwhelmed! [SWB & KL laugh] Although, sometimes I feel oddly nothing. Like I was sort of a blank slate of expectations. I didn’t know—this is my first book—you know—and I didn’t know how it would feel. The fact that it’s a memoir and so personal—I mean—just kind of made it more—I think—anxiety producing and mysterious for me. But yeah, I kind of—I see all the lists and it’s all really lovely and I feel people are being very charitable and I try not to give into imposter syndrome, but sometimes I do wonder [laughing] “what is the source of all this?” I don’t know, it’s so strange to see something that just lived in your head and in your heart out in the world having a life of its own. Like people reacting to it, even positively, in ways beyond your control. I love every kind thing, every thoughtful thing that people say about it, but at the same time, it’s just—it’s just so strange too to know that it’s out there being reacted to—you know—not only can I not control other people’s reactions to it—you know—I don’t want to. I think that’s the experience of reading—that something that nobody—not even the author—can take away from you is how you read a book and what you take away from it. But it’s just really interesting to hear the parts that I maybe think of as slightly less what the book is about, sometimes those are the parts that really resonate for people. I keep taking screenshots of the lists or saving them because [laughs] I feel like I’ll read them later and maybe feel more. Right now it’s just like there’s a limit. It’s like by 11am every day, I’ve hit my limit of what I can feel about the book that day and I’ll have to [laughs] wait for another day to feel and process more. [SWB & KL laugh] It’s definitely a lot. KL That makes total sense. I mean, we love it and we—we hope that you enjoy all the moments [laughing] no matter how overwhelming they might feel. But—so when you think about looking forward to once some of this frenzy of the release has passed, what are you most looking forward to? [50:08] NC I want to go on vacation for like a month! It’s not going to happen—it’s just not with work—but I want to take a little break. I’d like to take a nap for like three straight days. [laughs] And—I mean—I’ll be really honest. This has been—it’s been coming up in some other interviews too, but—I mean—my father passed away in January and I feel like I have not really even begun to like —I don’t know—not move past it because you don’t move past it, but there has not been a lot of time to think or to grieve. There hasn’t been as much time as I would like for my family this year and it’s just because of the nature of publishing a book, working a lot, not having a ton of vacation and—and having—you know—my father pass in the same year that my book comes out is—it’s been really hard. It’s been… really challenging and—and I’m honestly really looking forward to having some downtime for myself to process and maybe go to grief counseling finally. Just sort of spend a lot of time with my mom and my kids and—you know—certainly I’ll be thinking about what’s next, but I think probably some self care will be in order. [KL laughs] KL Yeah that’s— SWB Yeah, I hope you get both. I think you should have both a vacation and the time to properly process your feelings— KL Yeah. SWB —and deal with grief. NC Thank you. I mean that said, I am so looking forward to the book being out there. I’m really looking forward to tour. I think it will be, again, overwhelming, but mostly wonderful. I feel very honored that anybody is spending time with the book and I really want to get out there and meet and talk with people about it because it’s a special thing and I know—you know—I’ll never have this exact experience again. This is it for this—for this book, this is my chance. But I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t also looking forward to taking a really deep long breath [laughs] when it’s over. [SWB & KL laugh] KL We’re sadly almost out of time, so I just want to make sure that everyone knows that “All You Can Ever Know” is on sale literally everywhere right now, so we hope everyone will pick up a copy. Nicole, where else can folks keep up with you? NC My Twitter handle is @nicole_soojung—Soojung is my Korean name. And I’m on Instagram—Nicole Soojung—and those are my only public social media accounts so [laughs] but I would love to connect with people. My email is also not super difficult to find either. And if there are writers out there who have stories they would like to share, I do edit and publish fiction and non-fiction for Catapult so I would love to hear from you. KL Amazing. SWB Nicole, thank you so much for being here. NC Thank you for having me! I had such a good time. [music fades in, plays alone for five seconds, and fades out] SWB Listening to Nicole talk about her book is so great. I could give a fuck yeah for that. Buuuut I think we need more fuck yeahs than that. Katel, what have you got? KL Oh, I’ve got a good one and it is on theme! I just started listening to audiobooks. Hi, welcome me to [laughs] the present day. [SWB laughs] I’ve started to read so many books in the last few months and I just—I don’t know—I never seem to be able to finish them in paperback so I got a Kindle a little while ago, which I love because I can keep a bunch of books on it. But all of a sudden, I took a chance, I got an audiobook and now I feel like I have this whole new option. SWB So, what are you quote, unquote reading right now? [KL laughs] KL So, I’m reading slash listening to Too Fat, Too Slutty, Too Loud: The Rise and Reign of the Unruly Woman. It is fucking great, unsurprisingly, but it’s really amazing because I get to just kind of lose myself in it for the first time. I haven’t felt that way in a while, so it’s great. SWB That’s awesome. This is also really great because I actually wanted to do a fuck yeah to fall books because there are so many great books that are coming out. So, Nicole’s book obviously, which we got to read early, which was such a treat. But I’m also really excited for Rebecca Traister’s new book, it’s called Good and Mad. It is about women’s anger and hello, I have some of that [laughs]—in a healthy way. And then there’s Michelle Obama’s memoir and Phoebe Robinson from 2 Dope Queens has a new book that’s called Everything’s Trash, But It’s Okay. [KL laughs] Great title. And there are so many more books that I’m hyped about, so I can not wait to get some of these new titles, curl up with them, get myself a warm beverage while it’s cooling down outside. I’m just very, very, very much looking forward to reading books all fall and winter. KL I love it. I think we need to take a little trip somewhere to a fireplace-having location and just have a whole weekend where we read. Just—you know—putting that out there. SWB That sounds so great. So fuck yeah to fall reading! KL Fuck yeah! SWB Fuck yeah. That reminds me, I’ve got to order some new slippers. [pause] Well, that is it for this week’s episode of No, You Go. Our show is recorded in our home city of Philadelphia and produced by Steph Colbourn. Our theme music is by The Diaphone. Thanks to Nicole Chung for being our guest today. KL If you love NYG, make sure to subscribe and rate us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Your support helps us do what we do and we love that. See you next week! SWB Bye! KL Bye! [music fades in, plays alone for 32 seconds, and fades out to end]