Thinking Christian: Clear Theology for a Confusing World

James Spencer and Ashish Varma debrief their conversation with William Cavanaugh, and work out what he was and wasn't saying. They start with a tension: Cavanaugh sounded gentler in conversation than his books read, and both men try to account for it. The answer they land on has to do with audience — that Torture and Eucharist and Being Consumed are written to people who need to resist, while the broader project is aimed at those of us sitting near the center of a global economic order who don't notice we're being formed at all. Much of the episode turns on Cavanaugh's remark that he couldn't answer a question about the midterms without sounding partisan. James and Ashish read that carefully: not as a coded endorsement, but as a recognition that theological convictions will sometimes land incidentally on one side of a two-party ballot without originating there. From there they recover the older sense of politics — the life of the polis — through a piece of litter on the ground, a squirrel in the road, and Hebrews on efforts that matter without being ultimate. Chapters: 00:00 Why he sounded softer than he reads 02:23 The nation state as an ideology, not a neutral container 04:33 Why Cavanaugh reaches for idolatry 07:14 Formation, identity, and voices from the periphery 10:16 "I'm not sure I can answer that without sounding partisan" 16:52 Incidental alignment isn't partisanship 20:52 Recovering the polis 26:26 The litter on the ground 29:35 Creation care and the squirrel in the road 36:00 Amazon, Target, and picking your poison 40:13 Politics as art rather than science 44:16 We don't fix the world; we live faithfully in it 48:15 The fall as an optimistic doctrine 51:04 Hebrews: effort that matters without being ultimate Follow and subscribe Subscribe to Thinking Christian: https://episodes.thinkingchristian.org Website: www.thinkingchristian.org Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

William T. Cavanaugh — professor of Catholic studies at DePaul, director of the Center for World Catholicism and Intercultural Theology, and author of The Uses of Idolatry, Torture and Eucharist, Migrations of the Holy, and Being Consumed — joins James Spencer and Ashish Varma for the fifth episode in the faith and politics series. Cavanaugh begins where politics itself begins: not with elections, but with how people organize a shared life. He traces how the sacred trappings once belonging to the church migrated to the modern state, and points to the Apotheosis of Washington on the Capitol dome as a reminder that ostensibly secular nations still deify. Much of the conversation is about idolatry — why the word is worth recovering despite its colonial baggage, and what Latin American theologians saw when they applied it to economics rather than atheism. Cavanaugh works the argument through Amazon packages, cobalt mines, and Milton Friedman's definition of a free transaction, then answers the obvious objection about whether ordinary people can do anything at all. He closes on why the pursuit of Christian political power keeps producing the opposite of what it promises, with Hungary as the case in point. Chapters: 00:00 Welcome 01:24 Politics before it meant elections 03:38 Ecclesia: the church as a third thing 05:30 Migrations of the holy 08:25 The Apotheosis of Washington 09:12 We didn't have to end up here 11:30 Why the fall is an optimistic doctrine 14:58 Chile, Argentina, and the habits of a church 17:17 Kennedy's Pyrrhic victory 20:59 Why Christians think they need power 22:59 Recovering the word idolatry 27:08 Economics as theology 30:31 Amazon, cobalt, and what's invisible by design 34:51 If I don't buy the bananas, who eats? 41:06 Neither the status quo nor a treehouse 44:46 Mondragon and worker ownership 46:12 What you can actually do 48:12 A migrant ministry in Oak Park 51:13 Framing a midterm election 54:34 Hungary, Orbán, and what power costs the church 57:02 The churches everyone assumed were holding Follow and subscribe Subscribe to Thinking Christian: https://episodes.thinkingchristian.org Website: www.thinkingchristian.org Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

James Spencer and Ashish Varma reflect on the previous episode's conversation with Veronica Roberts Ogle — and on what happens when Augustine gets recruited for arguments he was writing against. The starting point is a claim James has encountered in political speeches: that the two cities can be collapsed, and that a nation might become the city of God. Both men think this misses Augustine's whole point. The cities are distinguished by their loves, and a community formed by self-love doesn't graduate into the other by improving its policies. From there the conversation widens. James connects Augustine's ordered loves to the Old Testament grammar of love as loyalty, and argues again that the ordo amoris isn't a ranked list. Ashish brings in Balthasar on faith as resonance — the violin that sounds because it's attuned — and Tolkien's music of creation, which is like unto a chorus without quite being one. They land on the wedge that can't be closed: a nation is bounded by resources and space, while there is always room in the kingdom for one more. Plus: pilgrims versus tourists, and why Las Vegas may be America's most honest city. Chapters: 00:00 Reflecting on the Ogle conversation 02:00 When Augustine gets enlisted for a Christian nation 06:48 Love as loyalty: Deuteronomy 6 and 1 John 09:11 Ordered loves is not a dartboard 11:25 The Good Samaritan and the outer ring 1 1:50 Balthasar: faith as resonance and attunement 17:03 Why not a chorus? Tolkien and the limits of language 19:30 Can non-Christians love? 25:11 Sameness that improvises rather than repeats 28:45 Wholesomeness is not holiness 33:07 False theologies and the sacred function of the state 39:27 The wedge: bounded nations, unbounded kingdom 44:48 What the church can do that the state cannot 50:08 O'Donovan: governing authorities as secondary witness 53:43 Pilgrims and tourists 59:39 Provision, anxiety, and the faith muscle Augustine City of God, two cities, ordo amoris, ordered loves, Christian nationalism, Hans Urs von Balthasar, Tolkien Ainulindalë, Oliver O'Donovan, William Cavanaugh, pilgrim and tourist, political theology, church and state, Veronica Roberts Ogle Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

AI is already cutting the audio, designing the graphics, and answering questions people used to bring to their pastors. Troy Miller, president and CEO of National Religious Broadcasters, joins Dr. James Spencer to talk about what happens when a productivity tool starts getting marketed as a teammate. Miller lays out three buckets: AI as production efficiency for ministries and nonprofits, the industry push to make the tools feel more human, and the legal and ethical tangle of intellectual property, deepfakes, and platform liability. From there the conversation turns to NRB and Barna survey data on how much Christians already trust these systems, research on what cognitive offloading does to our ability to think, the energy and water costs of the data centers nobody is counting, and why the answer has to start with what it means to be created in the image of God rather than with the technology itself. If AI is forming us, the question is what it is forming us into, and whether analog practices like radio, print, and actually sitting in a room with other believers are worth defending. Learn more about NRB at nrb.org. Follow and subscribe For more thoughts on AI, see James's Christianity.com article: https://www.christianity.com/wiki/current-events/christians-ai-spiritual-formation-discernment.html Subscribe to Thinking Christian: https://episodes.thinkingchristian.org Website: www.thinkingchristian.org Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Veronica Roberts Ogle teaches at Villanova and wrote Politics and the Earthly City in Augustine's City of God. She joins James Spencer for the third episode in the faith and politics series. She begins with why the book exists. Rome was sacked in 410, the first breach of the city's walls in centuries, and Romans wanted to know whether Christianity had cost them the protection of the old gods — while Christians, riding the high of a converted emperor, were asking why their God hadn't defended them either. Augustine's answer took thirteen years and twenty-two books. Ogle explains the two cities as loves rather than places: one formed by God's love carried as far as contempt of self, the other by self-love carried as far as contempt of God. She unpacks what "contempt of self" does and doesn't mean, and pushes back on reading the ordo amoris as a ranked list — everything is loved in God, not after God. The conversation turns to what this means for political life: why no political community has an eschatological end, why Augustine is no optimist about politics, and why he thought a judge should see himself as the woman caught in adultery. Chapters: 00:00 Introductions, and finding Augustine 04:01 The sack of Rome and why City of God got written 09:19 Nations can be healthier or sicker — but not transformed 13:54 Two cities, two loves 17:06 What "contempt of self" actually means 17:38 Ordered loves: not a ranked list 22:18 Political community and the peace it can reach 28:11 Is the church the same as the city of God? 34:41 What political participation actually is 38:39 Two kinds of father, two kinds of household 43:32 Augustine's letters to Christian judges 45:42 The loaf of bread: need and proximity 48:34 Compassion at a distance, and what we can actually do 53:25 Where to start reading Augustine Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

David Koyzis returns to the show for the second episode in the faith and politics series. He's a member of Global Scholars Canada and the author of Political Visions and Illusions, We Answer to Another, and Citizenship Without Illusions — and he spent his first thirty years in the Chicago area before moving to Canada, which gives him an unusual vantage on American national feeling. Koyzis starts with divided loyalties: we belong to families, congregations, workplaces, and nations, and none of those communities exhausts who we are. The political community isn't higher than the others. From there the conversation turns to what makes American identity different — the pledge, the anthem, the flag in the sanctuary — and why "Canadian first" is a phrase that would get you laughed at. James raises Robert Bellah on American civil religion. Both men admit to a season of refusing to sing the national anthem, and neither holds that position now. They also discuss why hope is not optimism, why presidents get credited with powers they've never had, and gratitude as the alternative to a posture of constant complaint — the subject of Koyzis's forthcoming book on the Heidelberg Catechism. Chapters: 00:00 Welcome back 01:55 Divided loyalties, and what none of them can define 03:48 "First allegiance" isn't a pie chart 06:01 Living the whole day before the face of God 09:40 What's different about American identity 14:20 The pledge, the anthem, and inculcating a nation 16:05 Bellah on American civil religion 19:31 Pride, and the hope it starts to cultivate 21:07 Hope is not optimism 21:38 Why we expect presidents to save us 24:53 Flags in the sanctuary 29:08 The Heidelberg Catechism project 33:48 Public life is wider than politics 34:57 Toward a politics of gratitude 36:20 Deuteronomy 8 and forgetting the source 40:03 Inconspicuous patterns, and what we take for granted 43:10 Formation first, politics second 46:10 Advice for an election season Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

The first episode in a series on faith and politics running through the midterms. James Spencer and Ashish Varma set the terms before the guests arrive. Ashish starts with the word itself: polis, the city — the shared life of a community, of which party politics is only a narrow slice. That opens the question the series will keep returning to. Paul had no power to abolish slavery, but he could tell Philemon that Onesimus was returning as a brother, and in doing so redraw a line the empire had drawn elsewhere. That is political work, done without any political agency in the sense we usually mean. James argues that voting is a voluntary right rather than a sacred duty, and explains why he doesn't always exercise it. Ashish tells the story of asking a pastor why the people who filled the building for ESL classes on Tuesday were absent on Sunday. Both land on 1 Corinthians 7: you don't have to change your situation to serve God where you are. Guests across the series include Kevin Flatt, Veronica Ogle, William Cavanaugh, Vincent Bacote, and others. Chapters: 00:00 Why this series, and what it won't do 03:06 What students expect from a political theology class 04:37 Polis: the city, and what "political" actually covers 06:00 Is the gospel political? 08:26 Paul's constraints, and ours 09:51 Political agency without political power 11:35 "The poor you will always have with you" 13:25 Nested authority: everything under God's 16:13 Philemon, Onesimus, and redrawing the line 17:43 Reimagining: children, packaging, and a can of Coke 21:06 Voting as a right, not a sacred duty 25:24 Pro-life advocacy and the children who age out 28:16 A church on the boundary lines of Chicago 32:02 1 Corinthians 7: serve where you're called 36:22 New eyes, new ears 37:39 Who's coming on the series Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

A Billy Graham Center survey of Gen Z reported that nearly half of respondents agreed that Christian support for Trump has made them less likely to attend church. The survey offers no follow-up on why — whether the objection is to a candidate, to partisanship generally, or to something deeper about how the church understands its own order. James Spencer and Ashish Varma take the finding as a starting point rather than a conclusion. The conversation reaches back to Constantine and the first council called by an emperor, to Augustine's two cities and the early church's refusal of military service, and to the medieval contest between papacy and throne — arguing that the entanglement of theology and politics is old news, not a recent American invention. From there: why neither conservatism nor liberalism has room for Christ at its center, why "care for the poor" collapses so quickly into a debate about welfare, what the three people at a Wednesday night prayer meeting say about arguments over prayer in schools, and a reading of Ahaz in Isaiah 7 — a king who had already decided, and dressed the decision in piety. Chapters (part-two offsets assume the recordings join cleanly at 28:00 — verify against the export): 00:00 The survey, and what it doesn't tell us 03:25 "Politically motivated" — who gets the label 06:28 Constantine, Nicaea, and the entanglement begins 10:09 Sacred social order and the scope of government 12:33 When political procedure starts discipling us 14:54 Care for the poor, and why it becomes welfare 16:48 Augustine's two cities 18:56 The early church and military service 22:12 Bezalel: creativity constrained by a given pattern 25:32 Selective use of Scripture as a rejection of authority 26:30 Conservatism has no place for Christ 28:00 Two sides of the same coin 31:00 Where do our ideals actually come from? 36:00 Reparations, history, and what we're actually called to learn 36:30 Engel v. Vitale and the Wednesday night prayer meeting 39:40 The government has no interest in informing you 42:00 Housing, highways, and the history nobody teaches 46:40 When the platform changed and nobody blinked 48:50 Isaiah 7: Ahaz had already decided 53:20 McGilchrist, Deuteronomy 30, and knowing what we don't Follow and subscribe Subscribe to Thinking Christian: https://episodes.thinkingchristian.org Website: www.thinkingchristian.org Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

James Spencer and Ashish Varma return to the diagnoses that narrow the church's vision, this time with fragmentation — the way faithful Christians end up separated from one another not by heresy but by tradition, idiom, and the slow drift of communities that no longer talk across their boundaries. James opens with a job interview from 2005 where a pastor announced he wanted no one in the role who wouldn't bleed for the Southern Baptist faith. Both men are clear that boundaries have real value; the question is what happens when a community's distinctives quietly become the test of who counts as a Christian at all. The conversation leans on George Lindbeck's argument that doctrine is second-order — an attempt to make sense of the biblical narrative rather than the thing itself — and on what gets lost when that ordering flips. Along the way: the ecumenical councils and why some councils didn't make the cut, the filioque and the East-West split, Genesis 22 and whether its tension sits in the text or in front of it, and why James has traded getting it right for getting it plausible. Chapters (approximate, from speaker turns — verify against the final cut): 00:00 What fragmentation is, and what it isn't 02:29 Church history as the place to start 04:25 "Bleed for the Southern Baptist faith" 08:35 When boundaries are legitimate 11:03 The ecumenical councils and what made them ecumenical 13:53 Insularity, and the cost of never crossing traditions 16:24 Doctrinal distinctives become vested interests 21:05 Lindbeck, Vanhoozer, and doctrine as second-order 23:19 East and West: the filioque and the split 25:16 The Reformation and the explosion of denominations 29:37 Inversion: when doctrine climbs on top of the text 31:15 Genesis 22 — "now I know that you fear God" 36:40 Is the tension in the text or in front of it? 41:13 Written in pencil 42:57 Reading the Bible without the systematic categories 47:38 Nobody reads from nowhere 49:18 The cloud: how secondhand narratives harden 54:11 Petitions, feedback loops, and doctrinal echo chambers 55:35 From "getting it right" to "getting it plausible" 57:37 The Nicene Creed as a broad boundary Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Karl Marx and D.L. Moody lived at the same time, watched the same cities industrialize, and asked the same question about the poor. One had a doctorate, wealthy patrons, and a theory of history. The other had about five years of formal schooling and a Bible. Dr. James Spencer talks with Dr. Gregg Quiggle about Marx and Moody: Two Contemporaries. Two Gospels. Two Tombstones. One Choice., the new book Quiggle co-wrote with Erwin Lutzer for Moody Publishers. They work through where Marx's system runs out of road, particularly its silence on how a state ever relinquishes power, and why that silence traces back to a thin account of the human heart. They also take up Moody's conviction that charity is life on life rather than a check sent across the tracks, the difference between the early church in Acts and state redistribution, and the harder question Quiggle raises near the end: how much traction would any of this have today if evangelical churches had actually taken up Moody's model of hands-on engagement in their own communities? Purchase: Marx and Moody Bread and Bibles: D.L. Moody's Evangelism and Social Action Follow and subscribe Subscribe to Thinking Christian: https://episodes.thinkingchristian.org Website: www.thinkingchristian.org Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

James Spencer and Ashish Varma close out the series on narrowing with amplification — Marshall McLuhan's insight that technology extends human capacity, and what that means when the capacity being extended is our tendency to forget God. The conversation runs from forks and chopsticks to John Deere, from the fig leaves in Genesis to Albert Borgmann's distinction between things and devices: the wood-burning stove that gathers a household versus the thermostat that anonymizes everything behind the heat. Ashish pushes back on the common classroom line that technology is morally neutral, arguing that development and use are different questions and that a technique built for accumulation carries that logic with it. James traces the same tension through David refusing Saul's armor, the warning in Deuteronomy 8 about cisterns you did not dig, and Paul's rebuke of the Corinthian habit of following personalities — a habit our follower counts and platforms have made much easier. It ends with a hard look at AI image generation, the Minnesota law and the litigation around it, and two Old Testament laws about goring oxen and rooftop parapets that were written to protect people without stopping progress. Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

James Spencer and Ashish Varma continue the series on what narrows the church's vision with a look at inversion — what happens when an interpretive grid quietly takes over the authority that belongs to Scripture itself. The conversation moves from the hermeneutical spiral (nobody comes to the text from nowhere) to the passages most of us never work: the command not to destroy fruit trees in Deuteronomy 20, God giving the land little by little in Deuteronomy 7, the instruction not to dispossess Moab in Deuteronomy 2, and the "remember the poor" tagline at the end of Paul's account of the Jerusalem council. James and Ashish ask what those texts do to confident readings of conquest, Christian nationalism and dominionism. They also walk through how heresy was actually decided — Augustine and Pelagius, Nicaea in 325 and the deliberate loosening of that language in 381 — and why the young-earth reading of Genesis 1 owes more to a social moment than to the text. Plus: Acts 7, Aquinas, and why interpretations should be written in pencil. Chapters (approximate, from speaker turns — verify against the final cut): 00:00 What inversion is: when the grid outranks the text 03:22 The hermeneutical spiral — no one reads from nowhere 09:30 Beach muscles: the books we never work 12:11 Deuteronomy 20 and the fruit trees 16:03 Galatians and "remember the poor" 20:11 Deuteronomy 2, dominionism, and the limits question 29:06 Acts 7: Stephen and the opposite error 33:18 How heresy was actually decided 42:23 Nicaea 325 → 381 and loosening the language 47:15 Genesis 1, young earth, and the social moment 59:40 Brokering gaps, creativity, and writing in pencil Follow and subscribe Subscribe to Thinking Christian: https://episodes.thinkingchristian.org Website: www.thinkingchristian.org Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

More than half of American Christians now say they trust AI with their spiritual life. That is a problem worth taking seriously, and it is also the reason Logos built its AI the way it did. Dr. James Spencer talks with Scott Lindsey, an executive director at Logos, about what happens when a Bible study tool is cut off from the open internet on purpose. Scott walks through the three design commitments behind Logos AI: no connection to the open web, so answers come from commentaries and scholarship rather than blogs and forums; cited sources down to the page number, as a check against hallucinated books and hallucinated authors; and no attempt to model the user and tell him what he wants to hear. He also explains the one thing Logos coders have hard-coded the tool to refuse, which is writing your sermon, your paper, or your Bible study for you. The back half of the conversation is a live walkthrough of Study Assistant and Factbook, including a look at Genesis 6, 1 through 8 and the questions most of us do not know to ask a text. Video listeners will get more out of that stretch, so if you are on audio, the version on YouTube or GodTube is worth your time. This episode includes a special offer for Thinking Christian listeners. Logos is providing a free 60-day trial at logos.com/thinkingchristian. The offer closes September 8, 2026, and the link is in the show notes. logos.com/thinkingchristian (expires Wed, September 8th, 2026) Follow and subscribe Subscribe to Thinking Christian: https://episodes.thinkingchristian.org Website: www.thinkingchristian.org Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Institutions confuse their own survival with the work of God. Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Varma close the diagnostic arc of this series with transaction, meaning the trade a person or an organization makes when preserving the platform becomes more important than the faithfulness the platform was built for. The anchor text is Jeroboam, who sets up worship at Dan and Bethel not to introduce a different god but to keep his people from traveling south. Varma's reading sharpens it: the question is whether Israel gathers around the presence of God or whether God is expected to gather around Israel. The conversation turns on how easily success gets read as approval. Spencer flags the language of institutions insisting that God needs them to be what they are now more than ever. Varma answers with Habakkuk, where God raises up Babylon in response to injustice and Babylon is still judged for how it behaves, and extends the point to a mission history in which the gospel genuinely spread through colonial expansion that was itself blessed by churches and was still indefensible. Being used is not the same as being approved. Spencer adds Nebuchadnezzar, named as God's servant and punished seventy years later, and the distinction holds: the exile was deserved, the brutality was not. What follows is uncomfortable for anyone who works in one of these places. Institutions may end because their course is run, or because they failed, or in spite of their faithfulness, and outcomes do not tell you which. Spencer, who consults with seminaries and Christian colleges, describes leaders trapped by buildings, accreditation, and systems, protecting a vehicle rather than the thing the vehicle was for. Nobody pursues a doctorate in order to preserve an institution. The question both men land on is whether the model has quietly been substituted for the mission. Resources The diagnosis guide: https://www.thinkingchristian.org/about/framework Thinking, Fast and Slow, Daniel Kahneman- amazon.com Norman Wirzba on creation and nature- amazon.com Passages referenced: Genesis 6 and 11 and 15, Deuteronomy 8, 1 Kings 12 and 17, Jeremiah, Habakkuk, John 12 Follow and subscribe Subscribe to Thinking Christian: https://episodes.thinkingchristian.org Website: https://www.thinkingchristian.org Chapters 0:00 What transaction means 2:24 Jeroboam and the shortcut 3:10 Not a different god 7:18 Why it looked legitimate 10:42 Institutional inertia 13:44 In defense of the word lucky 15:36 Habakkuk and Babylon 19:52 Spread and consequence 20:19 Kahneman on luck 22:43 Nebuchadnezzar as servant 26:50 Two theological problems 31:34 Babel and human capability 33:50 The patience of God 35:51 Institutions that simply end 39:35 Ideology defines the questions 41:34 What higher ed is protecting 43:16 Substituting the vehicle 45:38 Faithful in the moment 47:56 Repentance and repudiation 50:15 Walking beside someone bigger 53:19 What comes next in the series Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

The fear of losing the faith to another culture is producing the very thing it fears. Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Varma open a series on three forces pressing on the church, beginning with assimilation, and Varma's argument is that syncretism functions mostly as a fear discourse. The word gets aimed outward, at newer expressions of Christian faith in other places, by people whose own expression is so culturally saturated that they have stopped noticing it. He points out that "essence," the thing we say we are protecting, is a Greek philosophical category rather than a biblical one. His illustration is an apple. American students arriving in Germany recognize the fruit and still find it strange, because the apple in their heads is large, waxed, and unblemished, and a German student had the same reaction in reverse. The dandelion has a flower and we call it a weed. Every category came from somewhere. Spencer supplies the Old Testament counterweight: what scholars call syncretism there is specific and it is always about Yahweh. Israel does not swap gods so much as limit the one they have, keeping him for agriculture and hiring another for war, and the distortion becomes a denial. That distinction lets the conversation move without collapsing. Acts 2 puts the gospel into every dialect at once, and Acts 15 declines to make Gentiles into Jews. Varma, whose family is Indian, describes a mission history in which merchant, soldier, and missionary arrived together and in which becoming Christian meant becoming less Indian. He asks what an Indian Christian should do with Diwali, a festival about light overcoming darkness in which a god enters a demon's kingdom to rescue his bride, and offers the reception of Christmas in the Roman world as his analogy. His word for the move is not conform but transfigure. Spencer's is relocation under a different authority. Both insist on a constraint: Jesus the Jewish Messiah, which they argue is what makes the openness possible rather than what limits it. Chapters 0:00 Three forces on the church 1:33 Syncretism as a fear discourse 4:26 A German breakfast 6:09 What an apple looks like 7:51 Where the image came from 8:48 Why is that a weed? 9:43 Essence is not a biblical word 10:40 Syncretism in the Old Testament 13:04 Naming it in someone else 16:10 Acts 2 and every dialect 18:11 What was actually at stake 20:00 Mission history in India 21:42 Diwali and light over darkness 22:41 How Christmas landed on the 25th 24:14 Distortion becomes denial 26:11 Relocated under Christ 29:58 Transfigured, not conformed 30:12 Distinction through proximity 34:28 Were Israel's laws more just? 38:13 What actually made Israel different 42:18 Assimilation as the result of fear 45:03 The Jerusalem council 46:31 Glitter and what we miss 51:04 The litmus test 55:22 Constraints that enable Resources Download the Study Guide at https://www.thinkingchristian.org/about/framework Varma's essays on Diwali and Indian Christian identity: Substack The Society for Post-Supersessionist Theology Passages referenced: Deuteronomy 4 and 6, Daniel 1, Acts 2 and 7 and 15, Philippians 1 Follow and subscribe Subscribe to Thinking Christian: https://episodes.thinkingchristian.org Website: www.thinkingchristian.org Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

The usual complaint about the New Testament's use of the Old is that the apostles play fast and loose. Dr. Gary Edward Schnittjer thinks the problem runs the other direction. The Old Testament has gone missing from the research, and once you cut it off, ordinary exegetical moves start looking bizarre. Second Temple interpreters and the New Testament authors resemble each other because they were both apprenticed to the same thousand years of Old Testament authors interpreting earlier Old Testament texts. In this episode, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Schnittjer work through what he calls vertical context. Scholarship attends to the paragraph and chapter around a quoted verse. What gets skipped is the depth beneath it. More than eighty times, the New Testament cites an Old Testament text that is already citing something older. Zechariah's king on a donkey reaches back to the blessing of Judah in Genesis 49, blended with Isaiah 62, and by the time the gospel writers use it, the donkey is carrying a great deal more than a rider. Hebrews turns out to be interested in Torah almost everywhere while quoting Torah almost nowhere, working instead through Psalm 8, Psalm 95, Psalm 110, and Jeremiah. They also take up fulfillment, which in English carries a prediction-and-payoff sense the Hebrew does not require. Matthew's formula comes off the same plane as 2 Chronicles 36, where fulfilling a word means enacting it into reality rather than clocking a duration. That reframes the hard cases. Hosea 11 contains no prediction at all, but Hosea himself reads Jacob's life forward typologically, so Matthew is reading Hosea the way Hosea reads Scripture. The conversation closes on why this is not a license for interpretive improvisation. Dr. Schnittjer argues for plain sense exegesis throughout, which means reading each author with the grain rather than imposing a modern logic and calling it faithfulness. Dr. Gary Edward Schnittjer is distinguished professor of Old Testament for Cairn Theological Seminary at Cairn University. He writes at Carpenter's Student. This is the final episode in our four-part conversation and the second of two on the parallel layout project. Purchase Old Testament Use of Old Testament in Parallel Layout Volume 1: Torah and Prophets at amazon.com Carpenter's Student (Substack)https://CarpentersStudent.com Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

Most readers hear "Old Testament use of the Old Testament" and picture quotations. Dr. Gary Edward Schnittjer says quotation is the small end of it. An interpretive allusion needs three things: a donor text that gives the language, a receptor text that takes it up, and an identifiable interpretive outcome. That third item is what separates an allusion from an echo, and it is also why later biblical authors so often change the wording. Saying the same thing again was never the point. Moving it forward was. In this episode, Dr. James Spencer talks with Dr. Schnittjer about his forthcoming Old Testament Use of Old Testament in Parallel Layout from Zondervan Academic, a full-color, side-by-side presentation of the evidence built as an inductive tool rather than an argument. They work through Genesis 5 as an interpretive blend of Genesis 1 and 2, where the image of God turns out to mean son of God. Amos taunting his congregation about bringing sacrifices every three days. The Sabbath command, which stops being a capital matter by the time Nehemiah is arguing with merchants at the gates, and which had already been adjusted once inside the Ten Commandments themselves. The long middle of the conversation is Ruth. Levirate marriage, land redemption, the rights of gleaning, and the Deuteronomic exclusion of Moabites all pressing on one another at the city gate, with the Davidic covenant hanging on how the exclusion gets read. Dr. Schnittjer will not let his students say kinsman redeemer. He makes them say financially responsible near relative, because the plain term forces you to stay in the moment instead of leaping past it. The gospel is already here, he argues. We do not have to smuggle it in. Content note: the conversation includes a brief discussion of the rape of Tamar in 2 Samuel 13 and the rape laws of Deuteronomy 22. Dr. Gary Edward Schnittjer is distinguished professor of Old Testament for Cairn Theological Seminary at Cairn University. He writes at Carpenter's Student. This is part three of our conversation, and the first of two on the parallel layout project. In the next episode we turn to the New Testament use of the Old Testament. Purchase Old Testament Use of Old Testament in Parallel Layout Volume 1: Torah and Prophets at amazon.com Carpenter's Student (Substack)https://CarpentersStudent.com Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Ezra-Nehemiah opens on a high note. Yahweh keeps the word he spoke through Jeremiah, Cyrus issues the edict, and the exiles go home. By the last chapter, Nehemiah is walking the city alone, pulling out men's hair and cursing them, and the collective repentances that filled the middle of the book have evaporated. Dr. Gary Edward Schnittjer argues that most of the literature, popular and technical alike, has quietly declined to read that ending as an ending. In this episode, Dr. James Spencer talks with Dr. Schnittjer about his forthcoming commentary on Ezra-Nehemiah in the Baker Commentary on the Old Testament series. They start with the hyphen. Ezra-Nehemiah is one book split across two scrolls for the same practical reason Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles were split, and reading half of an already difficult book makes it nearly unreadable. From there they work through what happens when you let the ending stand: if the exile was supposed to reform the people, it did not, and God will have to keep his word some other way. Along the way, Nehemiah 8 through 10, where the people ask Ezra for the Torah scroll at the Water Gate on an ordinary day, study Scripture together for eleven days, and then sign an oath committing themselves to a standard higher than the one Torah sets. The canonical question of why the Hebrew Bible ends in Chronicles on a note of hope while Ezra-Nehemiah ends in failure. And the mass divorces, which Dr. Schnittjer reads against the grain of the usual explanations. The book never calls these others Gentiles or foreigners. It calls them non-covenantal. The pressure was economic before it was ethnic, and Ezra-Nehemiah keeps the camera on the whole community rather than the individual households. Dr. Gary Edward Schnittjer is distinguished professor of Old Testament for Cairn Theological Seminary at Cairn University. He writes at Carpenter's Student. Get Ezra-Nehemiah (Baker Commentary on the Old Testament) at amazon.com. This is part two of our conversation. In the previous episode we discussed Connected: How Scripture Guides the Study of Scripture, and in the next two episodes we turn to inter-biblical exegesis and Old Testament Use of Old Testament in Parallel Layout. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

What does repealing Sunday shopping laws have to do with rising rates of suicide, alcohol deaths, and drug overdoses? More than you might expect. In this episode of Thinking Christian, I sit down with Dr. Tamar Oostrom, health economist at The Ohio State University, to walk through her research on blue laws, religious decline, and what the data reveals about the hidden costs of losing community. The paper's central finding is striking: states that repealed blue laws — the Sunday retail restrictions that once made church the default social gathering of the week — saw measurable increases in deaths of despair in the years that followed. States that kept those laws did not. The mechanism isn't as simple as more alcohol access. It's something harder to quantify: the erosion of identity, purpose, and the kind of social accountability that comes with belonging to a local religious community. We talk through what economists actually study, why unintended consequences are so hard to see in real time, and why re-instituting blue laws isn't the answer even if the data is compelling. The more useful question is what individuals, employers, and communities can do now to rebuild the connective tissue that those laws once quietly enforced. The conversation also touches on remote work, social media, and the broader collapse of in-person socialization — and what all of it might mean for where deaths of despair go from here. Find more from Tamar Oostrom at https://www.tamaroostrom.com Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Christians have inherited a strange habit of treating the Old Testament as optional. Dr. Gary Edward Schnittjer argues that Jesus and the apostles would not have understood the question. There was a gospel, a Messiah, and a church before there was a New Testament, and none of it was possible without the Scriptures Israel already had. Even the word "gospel" comes to Mark by way of Isaiah. In this episode, Dr. James Spencer talks with Dr. Schnittjer about his new book, Connected: How Scripture Guides the Study of Scripture. The premise is that the Bible already teaches us how to read it. Story teaches us to read story in Deuteronomy 6. Prophecy teaches us to read prophecy in Zechariah 1. Poetry and wisdom teach us to read poetry and wisdom in Psalm 1. Jesus models the whole thing in the synagogue at Nazareth in Luke 4. Along the way they work through continuity and discontinuity between the testaments, the burden of holiness carried by the priests and what Hebrews does with it, Daniel's need for help understanding Jeremiah, and the strange counterpoint in Jeremiah 44 where survivors of Jerusalem's fall blame Josiah's reforms for the disaster. They close on Deuteronomy as a book that builds an entire culture of Scripture study, from the king who writes his own copy of the law to the whole covenant community gathered every seven years to hear it read. Dr. Gary Edward Schnittjer is distinguished professor of Old Testament for Cairn Theological Seminary at Cairn University. He writes at Carpenter's Student. This is part one of a two-part conversation. In the next episode, Dr. Spencer and Dr. Schnittjer turn to Ezra-Nehemiah. Get Connected: How Scripture Guides the Study of Scripture at Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Can the church learn to follow the Spirit into places it hasn't been looking? In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Varma sit down with Dr. Oscar Garcia-Johnson — Professor of Theology and Decolonial Studies at Fuller Theological Seminary and author of Spirit Outside the Gate: Decolonial Pneumatologies of the American Global South — for a conversation that will stretch your theological imagination in the best possible way. Oscar unpacks why the Holy Spirit resists every attempt at domestication, why Pentecost was never about cosmetic diversity, and why genuine Christian maturity looks less like doctrinal confidence and more like humble, attentive discernment. Drawing from scripture, church history, and his own journey as a pastor-scholar moving between the church, the academy, and the city, Oscar challenges the "canonical imagination of the West" — not to reject Christian theology, but to reroute it toward a more faithful, Spirit-led witness in a global, pluralistic world. If you've ever felt the tension between theological certainty and genuine openness to what God is doing in surprising places, this episode is for you. Key Takeaways: Why pneumatology (the study of the Holy Spirit) naturally resists the same gating mechanisms that Christology can fall prey to The difference between relativism and Spirit-led discernment — and why Oscar is firmly not a relativist How the Tower of Babel and Pentecost represent two competing logics still at work in the church today What "terminal knowledge" is and how the Spirit is actively healing it in marginalized communities Why true Christian maturity is relational and active — not self-referential How to ask "Where is God?" instead of only "Where is the devil?" when encountering other cultures and traditions The connection between Acts 7, the Jerusalem Council, and Spirit-led openness to the Gentiles Oscar's new book Decolonial Love in Times of Hatred: 40 Ways to Follow Jesus Today Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

Is modern life quietly replacing God with something else? In Episode 60 of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Farma welcome back historian and theologian Dr. Kevin Flatt (Associate Dean of Humanities, Redeemer University) to explore one of the most urgent and underexamined ideas in Christian thought today: Sacred Social Order. Every civilization in human history — from ancient China to Mesoamerican empires to early Christian Europe — understood that human society must align with something higher than itself. That intuition isn't gone. It's been replaced. By nationalism. By progressive identity movements. By civil religion. By the cult of the individual. In this wide-ranging conversation, James, Ashish, and Kevin map how the West lost its sacred social order, what quietly took its place, and what the Church must recover — including a radical rethinking of time, space, the Sabbath, and Christian catechesis. If you've ever felt like the world is moving too fast, or that something foundational has been hollowed out — this episode names what it is. Key Takeaways: What "Sacred Social Order" means — and why virtually every pre-modern civilization shared it How secularization doesn't create a vacuum; it creates replacement religions (nationalism, identity politics, civil religion) Why the American founding contains an unresolved ambiguity between Christian and Deist foundations — and what happened when that ambiguity tilted secular How technology is catechizing us into seeing time and space as things to master, not gifts to steward The striking biblical parallel between Sabbath laws and land laws — and what exile means for a church that ignores both Why literal gardening might be one of the most counter-cultural spiritual practices a Christian can adopt today What a Christian catechism for our moment needs to address — and what sacred values compete against it Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

What if secularization isn't the decline of religion — but the replacement of one social order with another? In this episode, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Varma sit down with Dr. Kevin Flatt, professor of history at Redeemer University and author of Secularization, Social Order, and World History, to unpack one of the most provocative frameworks in contemporary Christian thinking: Sacred Social Order. Kevin introduces the idea that every human culture — until the modern West — has organized its life around something higher than itself. He argues that what we call "religion" is actually a uniquely Western, uniquely modern compartment, while Sacred Social Order is the operating system beneath all of culture. From there, the conversation moves through Christian nationalism, the liberal firmware of Western democracy, Philip Reif's cultural warfare thesis, and why your children's public school is not religiously neutral. If you've ever sensed that something deeper than a culture war is unfolding — that the ground itself has shifted — this episode gives you the language to name it. Key Takeaways: What "Sacred Social Order" means, and why it's a more accurate lens than "religion" for understanding culture Why secular order isn't neutral — it has its own values, telos, and demands on individuals How the Christian nationalism debate connects to identical movements in India, Iran, China, and the Muslim world Why Philip Reif's "third culture" thesis is partly right — and where Kevin respectfully pushes back Why public education is never neutral, and what Christians should really be asking about schools Why the gym or the yoga studio may be shaping your theology more than Hinduism is The Labubu doll illustration: how misidentifying spiritual threats reveals our blind spots Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

Is "Cultural Christianity" a bridge to the gospel — or a counterfeit that replaces it? In this episode, Dr. James Spencer (PhD, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) and Dr. Ashish Varma respond to James Wood's widely-discussed First Things article, In Defense of Cultural Christianity. Together they unpack why calling a civilisation "Christian" when Christ is not its governing authority is not just imprecise — it's theologically catastrophic. From the Christendom narrative and American civil religion to the habituation of virtue, abortion statistics, and a profound meditation on Pentecost in Acts 2, this episode models what serious Christian thinking looks like when it refuses to foreclose on the full authority of Jesus Christ too soon. If you've wrestled with Christian nationalism, the "good, true, and beautiful" in culture, or what it means to vote as a follower of Jesus, this conversation is essential listening. Key Takeaways: Why "a culture influenced by Christianity" is an insufficient — and potentially dangerous — definition of "Christian culture" The concept of "inappropriate foreclosure": closing off our understanding of the good too soon and using that partial view as if it were complete How Robert Bellah's concept of American civil religion explains why Christian language gets co-opted by government without actually conforming people to Christ Why the Book of Acts — specifically Pentecost and the Gentile inclusion — fundamentally disrupts any vision of Christianity as a singular cultural program The Light Bright metaphor: God is the light source; culture is the peg pattern. Christians must point people behind the pegs to the light itself Why policy-driven virtue formation (habituation) has measurable real-world limits — and what the abortion statistics during different administrations actually reveal How Dr. Varma's personal experiences — from campus life on 9/11 to being randomly selected in airports — illustrate why Wood's "civilisational benefit" narrative forecloses on the experiences of many believers Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

What does it mean to be human — really? In an age of AI, transhumanism, and relentless technological "progress," Christians are making confident claims about humanity without a solid theological foundation underneath them. In this episode, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Varma sit down with Dr. Marc Cortez, Dean of the Litvin School of Divinity at Wheaton College, to explore one of the most urgent and underdeveloped doctrines in Christian thought: theological anthropology. Dr. Cortez challenges the tendency to let the Image of God do all the heavy lifting — and makes a compelling case that the human body is not merely an instrument of the soul, but is fundamental to what it means to be made in God's image. Drawing from ancient idol language in Genesis 1, the resurrection, and modern cognitive science, this conversation reorients how Christians should think about embodiment, flourishing, technology, and even taking care of a tree. If you've ever wondered whether your theology can hold up in a world reshaped by AI, this is the episode to start with. KEY TAKEAWAYS The Image of God (Imago Dei) uses ancient idol language — humans are the material means by which God manifests His divine presence in the world We cannot think well about AI, transhumanism, sexuality, race, or disability without first building a robust theology of embodiment The soul-body hierarchy in Christian history was never meant to devalue the body — but it almost always has "Spiritual maturity" and "physical health" belong on the same list — our bifurcation of them reveals a modern, unbiblical blind spot Before making confident claims about technology making us "less human," ask the prior question: what does it mean to be human in the first place? Christian eschatology (resurrected, transformed bodies) gives us more theological complexity around human enhancement than most people realize Dr. Cortez's shorthand for the Image of God: "We are the material means by which God is seeking to manifest His divine presence in a unique way in the world." Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

What if the church is trapped in the same invisible loop as an addict — and doesn't know it? What does addiction science have to do with the body of Christ? More than you'd think. In this follow-up conversation, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ashish Varma build on their interview with Dr. David Van Dyke (Wheaton College Marriage & Family Therapy) to explore how systems thinking unlocks a deeper understanding of church health, Christian formation, and why faithful people keep repeating the same destructive patterns. Drawing on Kent Dunnington's groundbreaking work Virtue and Addiction, the conversation reveals that the opposite of virtue isn't simply vice — it's addiction. Both are habit-formed, systems-shaped realities. The hosts then turn this lens on the church: from organizational cultures stuck in toxic loops, to single-issue political formation, to Pharaoh's fear-driven decision-making in Exodus — and what it all reveals about how invisible systems shape us without our awareness. This is a rare conversation: calm, theologically rigorous, and genuinely challenging for anyone who wants to think clearly about what it means to be the body of Christ in the world today. Key Takeaways: Why addiction is the true opposite of virtue — not vice — according to philosopher Kent Dunnington How invisible systems shape our habits, reactions, and identities without our awareness Why single-issue political engagement may be forming us into political animals rather than disciples The Pharaoh principle: how fear-driven, system-bound thinking causes us to miss what God is doing The Ephesus problem: the danger of being doctrinally right but missionally withdrawn What Jeremiah 7 and Acts 7 reveal about mistaking second-order goods (doctrine, temples) for first-order realities What does a multi-denominational coffee shop Bible study teach the church about unity? Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

Most people think of mental health as an individual problem. Dr. David J. Van Dyke — professor, marriage and family therapist, and co-host of the With You podcast — thinks that's exactly the wrong frame. In this episode, Dr. Spencer and Ashish sit down with David to unpack how family systems therapy fundamentally reorients the way we see suffering, relationships, and even the gospel itself. From a rebellious teenager who kept losing possessions until there was nothing left to take, to Paul's language of perseverance in suffering, David draws a sweeping line between relational science and redemptive theology. He argues the entire arc of Scripture — from the intimacy of Eden to the rupture of the Fall to the systemic intervention of the Incarnation — is a relational rupture-and-repair story. And that changes everything about how we do therapy, parenting, church leadership, and discipleship. If you've ever wondered why "doing everything right" doesn't guarantee good outcomes, why moral failure in a pastor becomes a congregational crisis, or what Phil Jackson and the Book of Job have in common — this conversation is for you. Key Takeaways Systems, not individuals, carry symptoms. Depression, anxiety, and misbehaviour often serve a function within the relational system — not just the person. The therapist's real question is "how," not "why." Asking why digs into individual meaning; asking how reveals the relational dance keeping a system stuck. The Incarnation as systemic intervention. Christ didn't just save individuals — He changed the rules of the game. Second-order change. Resilience grows from optimal frustration, not comfort. Numbing pain also numbs joy. The goal is to come alongside suffering, not remove it. Isolation is poison to the human soul. An embodied, safe community is the prerequisite for every hard conversation the church needs to have. Love your spouse as an act of worship. Not a transaction. Not what they deserve. As worship — and it rewires the entire relational dynamic. Western individualism is a therapy problem too. In Illinois, 1 in 15 licensed mental health providers is a marriage and family therapist. The rest are trained to see individuals. The relational blind spot is systemic. Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

Is Christian parenting a strict formula to execute, or an art form to practice? In a culture that bombards Christian parents with exhaustive 10-step checklists and uniform blueprints for family life, it is remarkably easy to accidentally provoke or exasperate our children. This week, Dr. James Spencer, PhD and Dr. Ashish Varma return to the podcast to look at fatherhood through the lens of scriptural wisdom rather than cultural anxieties. True biblical wisdom doesn't produce recipe-followers; it forms adaptive disciples. Pulling from the book of Proverbs, the Sermon on the Mount, and the letters of Paul, James and Ashish discuss why parenting requires holy improvisation—a pastoral sensitivity that allows a father to receive his children exactly as they are and adjust his training to fit their unique design. In this episode, we discuss: The "Chopped" Mystery Basket: Viewing your child's distinct traits as raw ingredients that require expert, customized care. The Education Fit: An honest, non-judgmental look at public vs. private schooling, and why identical principles led both hosts to entirely different local schooling choices for their kids. Healthy Friction vs. Exasperation: Learning how far to push a child to build resilience without crossing the line into crushing their spirit. The Long Game: Moving past the urge to "fix" every behavioral issue instantly, focusing instead on building the profound, long-term trust your children will need well into adulthood. Form your character, drop the rigid checklists, and learn to enjoy the beautiful, improvisational calling of being a dad. Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com. Join the movement: Sign up for our direct line loop of 140k believers at thinkingchristian.org. Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

The Southern Baptist Convention just passed a constitutional amendment restricting women in ministry — and the implications reach far beyond the SBC. In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer and co-host Ashish Varma sit down with Dr. Beth Allison Barr, historian, Baylor professor, and author of The Making of Biblical Womanhoodand Becoming the Pastor's Wife, to break down what happened, why it matters, and where evangelical Christianity may be heading. Beth traces the amendment's path from 2022 to its overwhelming passage in 2025, explains why Al Mohler's role was decisive, and unpacks the striking inconsistency at the heart of the SBC's position: the same ecclesiology used to avoid accountability for sexual abuse was set aside the moment women's roles came to a vote. We also go deeper into the historical forces behind this moment, from the fundamentalist-modernist controversy to decades of seminary curriculum that have shaped an entire generation of Christians who have never encountered a different reading of scripture. If you've wondered how complementarianism moves toward biblical patriarchy, Beth explains exactly how that progression works and why it isn't accidental. The conversation also takes up the coordination problem: the SBC has Desiring God, the Gospel Coalition, and institutional momentum built over decades. Those committed to keeping these conversations open and honest largely do not. That gap matters, and we name it directly. Topics covered: SBC constitutional amendment, women in ministry, complementarianism vs. egalitarianism, Al Mohler, biblical womanhood, evangelical polarization, church history, Beth Allison Barr Check out Beth's Substack at bethallisonbarr.substack.com, and her books: The Making of Biblical Womanhood and Becoming the Pastor's Wife. Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

What does it actually mean to be a male disciple of Jesus? And why does so much of what gets called "biblical masculinity" look more like cultural bravado than anything Jesus modeled or taught? In this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Kutter Callaway, associate professor of theology and psychology at Fuller Seminary and author of Theology for Psychology and Counseling, to dig into those questions. We talk through how we got here, because this didn't just appear out of nowhere. There's a history, a response to the feminist movement, the Promise Keepers era, and now a political and technological moment that's made a certain vision of masculinity almost impossible to avoid. The tragedy is that the answer to real male loneliness has been, in so many corners of the church, a kind of machismo that has very little to do with the Jesus of the Gospels. We get into how certain exegetes have tried to make Jesus a model of masculine strength in ways the text doesn't support, the structural inconsistencies in how the SBC has applied its ecclesiology, and why discipleship, not dominance, is the frame we actually need. Kutter's closing point, that we need to ask not "what's wrong with you" but "what happened to you," is something worth sitting with. Check out Kutter's work at kuttercallaway.com and his Substack, The Wrong Kind of Christian, at kuttercallaway.substack.com. Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

s the Old Testament Law a heavy burden to be avoided, or a guide to the heart of the Lawgiver?

For many Christians, the Book of Deuteronomy feels like a dense wilderness of repetitive laws and ancient regulations that seem disconnected from a vibrant relationship with Jesus.

Is there a "secret recipe" for biblical fatherhood, or have we been looking at the wrong map?

Is our modern definition of "toughness" actually biblical, or is it just a shadow of the ancient world?

Is 1 Timothy 3 a list of "manly" traits, or a calling for the entire Body of Christ?

If we move past the confusing labels of "biblical manhood," what are we actually left with?

Are we following Jesus, or just a "masculine" version of ourselves?

Does being a "Biblical Man" mean fitting into a specific cultural mold?

If we throw away the old, distorted maps of manhood, what do we use to navigate instead?

What happens when the "old maps" of masculinity fail us?

Is the current conversation around "Biblical Manhood" giving us a clear path, or just a distorted map?

How did we get here? From the Enlightenment to the rise of Postmodernism, the landscape of what we believe about God has shifted beneath our feet. In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer sits down with renowned theologian Dr. Roger E. Olson (Emeritus Professor at Baylor University) to map out the fascinating—and often turbulent—history of modern theology. They explore the tension between tradition and the "modern mind," discussing how giants like Schleiermacher, Barth, and Bonhoeffer navigated a world that was rapidly deconstructing old certainties. Whether you're a theology nerd or just trying to understand the intellectual roots of your own faith, this conversation provides a vital compass for the journey. In this episode, we discuss: The "Modern" Dilemma: What happens when theology tries to accommodate the demands of the Enlightenment? Reconstruction to Deconstruction: Understanding the shift from building grand systems of thought to the skepticism of the 21st century. The Giants of the Faith: Why figures like Karl Barth and Dietrich Bonhoeffer still matter for your walk with Christ today. The Evangelical Response: How believers can engage with modern ideas without losing the core of the Gospel. Finding Your Place: How understanding the history of ideas helps you situate your own beliefs in a chaotic world. Join us for a deep dive into the ideas that shaped the modern church and discover how to think Christianly in an era of reconstruction and deconstruction. Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

In a world that demands instant results, we’ve found a thousand new ways to numb the pain of existence. Join Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ben Mathew for the final installment of our series as they tackle the normalization of "quick-fix" drugs—from anabolic steroids and TRT in the fitness world to the rise of GLP-1s like Ozempic. We explore the dangerous trade-offs of modern biohacking and why the Christian life calls us to lean into the "friction" of reality rather than anesthetizing ourselves against it. If you've ever felt the pressure to "optimize" your body at the expense of your soul, this conversation is for you. In this episode, we discuss: The Normalization of Performance Enhancers: Why younger generations are turning to steroids and TRT for social media clout. The "Numbing" Culture: How we use substances to avoid the "existential sniffles" and the discomfort of growth. The GLP-1 Wave: Examining the psychological and spiritual implications of the newest drug trends. Sanctification vs. Optimization: Why the Christian walk requires "grit" and "friction" that a pill or injection can’t provide. Working Toward Your Own Dismissal: A challenge to leaders and counselors to build structures that help people find freedom, not just temporary relief. Don’t miss this deep dive into how we can bear faithful witness in a culture that wants to edit out every struggle. Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

Are we asking therapy to do something it was never designed to do? In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ben Mathew take a provocative look at the "Counseling Industry" and its role in a collapsed culture. While therapy is a vital tool for clinical challenges, Dr. Mathew shares the growing trend of counselors feeling like "paid friends" for people who are simply missing the basic structures of a healthy life. We dive into why the clinical office is a great place to meet a need, but a terrible place to sustain a soul. In this episode, we discuss: The "Paid Friend" Phenomenon: Why many people are seeking professional therapy for problems that used to be solved by a neighbor or a church small group. Clinical vs. Ontological Needs: Distinguishing between psychological disorders and the deeper "existential sniffles" caused by isolation. The Limits of the Couch: Why a one-hour weekly session cannot provide the resources to sustain a person’s entire sense of meaning. A Collapsed Culture: How the breakdown of local communities has forced the mental health industry to become a "catch-all" for human loneliness. Returning to the Body: Why the church must step up to provide the "house" of support so that therapy can return to its intended clinical focus. If you’ve ever wondered why therapy feels like a temporary fix or why our culture is more "counseled" yet more anxious than ever, this conversation is a must-listen. Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

Loneliness isn't just a "feeling"—it’s a structural crisis. In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ben Mathew take a hard look at the "Epidemic of Loneliness" and why our modern way of life is practically designed to keep us isolated. Building on the "Embodied Leg" of our mental health stool, we explore how the transition from a "physical" world to a "convenience" world has stripped away the natural friction that used to bring us together. It’s time to move past the "on-demand" lifestyle and rediscover why being a member of the Body of Christ requires more than just a Wi-Fi connection. In this episode, we discuss: The Surgeon General’s Warning: Why loneliness is now considered a greater public health threat than many physiological diseases. The "Convenience" Trap: How Amazon, Netflix, and DoorDash have unintentionally removed the "small talk" and community interactions that ground our sanity. Structural Loneliness: Understanding that we haven’t just become lonely; we’ve built a society that makes it the default setting. The Church as a "Third Space": Why the local church is the essential alternative to the isolation of the home and the transactional nature of the workplace. Ancient Truths for Modern Deficiencies: Moving beyond the "search for relief" and leaning into the grit of real-world relationships. If you’ve ever felt "lonely in a crowded room" or wondered why life feels increasingly disconnected, this conversation offers a roadmap back to the communal life we were created for. Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

In an era of digital convenience and "on-demand" spirituality, have we lost something vital by staying home? Join Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ben Mathew as they explore the "Embodied Leg" of the mental health stool. This episode dives into the "Deaths of Despair" phenomenon and how the simple act of being physically present in a local church community serves as a powerful buffer against anxiety and isolation. We’re moving beyond abstract beliefs and looking at the tangible, physical habits that ground us when the world feels overwhelming. In this episode, we discuss: The "Blue Laws" Connection: How the loss of a shared day of rest contributed to a rise in "deaths of despair." Digital vs. Embodied Faith: Why watching a sermon at 1.5x speed can't replace the "friction" and beauty of being with real people. The Power of Ritual: How the physical acts of communion, singing, and gathering provide "symbolic handles" to navigate life’s challenges. The Church as a Physical Manifestation: Why the local church is the essential "body" we need to inhabit for true human flourishing. Building Grit through Presence: Why showing up when you don't feel like it is exactly what builds spiritual and emotional resilience. Whether you're struggling with a sense of isolation or looking for a deeper way to engage with your faith, this conversation reminds us that we were made to be present. Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

Hundreds of churches once bombed and burned to the ground are not only standing again but thriving in Sudan and South Sudan. Hear stories of pastors who experienced intense persecution and how their faith sustained them. Resources: Learn more about the Church Reconstruction Program in South Sudan https://www.samaritanspurse.org/construction/celebrating-over-500-new-churches-in-south-sudan/ To hear more about Ryan’s time in Sudan listen to Serving in Uncertainty: The War in Sudan https://ontheground.samaritanspurse.org/podcast/serving-in-uncertainty-the-war-in-sudan Listen to “Plane Hijacked in Africa: The Pilot’s Story Part 1 and 2” to hear the inspirational story of one of our ministry pilots who chose to fully entrust his life to Jesus even while his plane was being hijacked. SamaritansPurse.org/Listen Show Notes: This week, Kristy reflects on more than 20 years of church growth in Sudan and South Sudan following a two decades long period of civil war. Starting in the 1980s, as the government attempted to eliminate Christianity, Sudanese soldiers would come into villages, burning churches and arresting and torturing pastors. Even in the face of intense persecution these pastors maintained their faith in God. Rev. James Lagos Alexander, an archbishop in Sudan, was just a young pastor when the war broke out. He soon found himself in jail—not for a crime but for preaching the Gospel. His church was later bulldozed on Christmas Eve. Even as he was crying out to the Lord, Samaritan’s Purse was preparing to start a program that would eventually rebuild more than 500 destroyed churches and train new pastors for each one that was martyred during the war. “There's many ways for us to give up, but we say we will not give up. If we die, we die, but we must preach the Gospel in season and out of season.” – Rev. James Lagos Alexander Though they had been jailed, beaten, and persecuted for their faith they were joyful and relentless in sharing the Gospel. Kristy shared a verse from Colossians on suffering for Christ’s sake. “Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am supplementing what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions in behalf of His body, which is the church.” - Colossians 1:24 (NASB) Ryan Boyette, who worked with Samaritan’s Purse in Sudan during the Church Reconstruction Program, was inspired by the immense faith he saw on display as he heard the stories of what these people had endured. “They had been beaten down over generations and decades of war and targeted attacks, but the construction of these churches has allowed that hope to remain. It’s a symbol that Christ is there and He loves this church and He loves these people.” – Ryan Boyette Today, more than 20 years after the Church Reconstruction Program began, these churches are not only standing, but thriving! Many have expanded into other villages and use their buildings throughout the week for schools, adult education programs, orphanages, and shelters for people displaced by conflict. “Instead of worshiping under the trees, now we have a place. We felt like the wall of Jerusalem has been rebuilt. We felt that God has come back home. We felt that our identity has been restored. What the enemy has taken from us, now God has brought it back again.” – Rev. James Lagos Alexander Their testimonies are an incredible reminder that out of hardship can come amazing growth. Kristy encourages listeners that God's plans can be so different than our own, but we have to trust that His ways are higher than ours, and He works all things together for the good of those who love Him. If you’d like to keep up to date with more stories from On the Ground, please visit SamaritansPurse.org. Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

In a culture obsessed with "happiness hacks" and immediate emotional relief, what if our sadness isn't a glitch, but a proper response to reality? In this follow-up episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ben Mathew (Professor of Counselor Education at CIU) tackle the heart of the existential crisis. They move beyond the "social leg" of mental health to explore the "existential leg"—the shared process of meaning-making in a world that often feels like running into the wind. In this episode, we discuss: The Rationality of Sadness: Why feeling existential dread and deep frustration is a "proper response" to the systems and brokenness around us. The "Neurosurgeon" vs. the "Glass of Water": Identifying why we often rush to clinical experts when what we truly lack is a durable community "house" of support. Lament as Language: Following the example of Christ on the cross and the Psalmists to give a voice to our heartache without being "chastised" or "condemned." Anchoring Against Despair: How the local church acts as a "buttress of truth," helping us find a non-anxious presence even when our bank accounts are zero or life feels overwhelming. Shared Meaning: Why meaning is best solidified not in isolation, but within the "community of saints." Stop trying to shortcut the healing and join us for a conversation about sitting in the tension, voicing the lament, and finding the grace to keep running. Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

Have you ever been in the middle of a busy, successful season only to be hit by a sudden, creeping feeling that none of it matters? You aren’t alone. In this episode of Thinking Christian, Dr. James Spencer and Dr. Ben Mathew (Professor of Counselor Education at CIU) dive deep into the "existential leg" of the mental health stool. Dr. Mathew joins us from the middle of a literal storm to discuss the figurative storms of the soul—those moments when we feel like we are "running into the wind" without a sense of purpose. We explore why "existential dread" is often a rational response to a broken world and how the local church should serve as the primary "house" of support before we ever reach for clinical intervention. In this episode, we discuss: The "Running into the Wind" Analogy: Understanding the baseline anxiety that seeps into our work and daily lives. Angry at Existence: How to navigate feelings of bitterness toward God or life itself. The Power of Lament: Why we need to stop "shortcutting" to the fix and start making space for groaning and frustration. The Church as Triage: Why general community support is the "glass of water" we often need before calling a "neurosurgeon." Shared Meaning: How the "pillar and buttress of truth" helps us avoid despair. If you’ve been feeling the weight of the world or questioning your impact, tune in for a conversation that re-centers our story within the greater narrative of God's work. Get early access and a bonus with a Patreon membership. Subscribe to our YouTube channel To read James's article on this topic, check out his author page on Christianity.com.

Are we living in a "Truman Show" world?