Podcast appearances and mentions of kelly one

Feeling the pressure to homeschool perfectly through Thanksgiving and Christmas while also hosting, baking, and keeping everyone cheerful? In this conversation with Kelly Warner from Hope in the Chaos, we're exploring how to make holiday homeschool simple, peaceful, and actually enjoyable—without the guilt of falling behind or missing out.Kelly shares honest stories from her decade of homeschooling (including the year she made her son do school through Christmas break!) and practical wisdom that will help you choose rest over stress this season.In this episode:✅Real holiday homeschool options from keeping rigid schedules to taking December completely off✅How to keep learning simple but meaningful through topic studies, service projects, and family traditions✅Why rest needs to be as much a part of your homeschool as the busyness✅The mindset shift that frees you from the pressure of being "behind"Practical ways to prioritize peace over perfection and connect with your kids during the chaosReady to simplify your holiday season? Grab Kelly's free Ultimate Holiday Planner mentioned in this episode to organize everything from cookie baking to gift wrapping in one simple place!Resources Mentioned:Homeschooling Through The Holidays 2025 The Ultimate Holiday Planner 25 Family Christmas TraditionsThe Heart of Serving Others at ChristmasKelly Warner is a seasoned homeschooling mom from Maine, where she lives with her husband and their four children, two of whom are proud homeschool graduates. With years of experience navigating the ups and downs of home education, Kelly is passionate about helping families simplify their journey and find encouragement amidst the chaos of daily life. She shares practical tips, inspiration, and real-life homeschooling wisdom on her website, Hope In The Chaos, and across social media.FacebookFacebook GroupInstagramPinterestShow Notes:Finding Hope in Holiday Homeschool ChaosToday, y'all are in for a treat, because I know overwhelm starts a lot—well, all the time, but especially during the holidays. How do you go through the holidays? How do you try to homeschool through the holidays?My good friend Kelly Warner is here, and we're just going to sort of pick her brain for some ideas.Kelly: I am so excited to chat about homeschool overwhelm and how your listeners can homeschool through the holidays with some simplicity, and hopefully get to the end of December and not feel like they missed it.Y'all, I didn't really think about this, but the name of her company is Hope in the Chaos. Just think about that. She talks about finding hope in the chaos of life, the chaos of homeschooling, the chaos of kids.Meet Kelly WarnerKelly: My name is Kelly Warner. I'm a homeschooling mom from Maine. My husband and I have 4 children, 2 of which are homeschool graduates.When I say we've done it all, we've done it all. We did start in the public school system, so I can talk about withdrawing and transitioning. I'd love to just help you make your homeschooling simpler.There is hope in the chaos, and life is chaotic, parenting is chaotic, raising children, homeschooling, but we can find hope. I find my hope in Christ, of course. That is where my hope is found, that's where we put our hope in this household.Those people that follow me know that I'm a person of faith, Kelly and I have similar faith, and so you might hear some of that sprinkled in here and there. Whether you agree with this or not, there are still things that you can grab, take hold of, and put into practice.The Homeschooling Through the Holidays SeriesFor those of you that don't know, she is the host of Homeschooling Through the Holiday series. Tell us a little bit about what inspired you to start this, and then are there any common struggles that you see with families during the holiday season?Kelly: Homeschooling through the Holidays is a 4-week series. We're starting November 17th. We have 16 amazing bloggers who are joining us to give readers just some practical tips and tried-and-true advice that works in their home.Homeschooling through the holidays has one goal: We want to make holiday homeschooling simple. For some, we're gonna talk about exactly how to homeschool through the holidays. Maybe you want to stick to your current schedule, your child needs that routine, you need the system.For others, perhaps you're wanting to take a break, and you want to feel okay about that. We cover it all.This whole series was dreamt of—I was thinking about this earlier today—actually in my bathroom. I was getting ready, I was dealing with the hustle and the bustle and the stress of it all. I was a newer homeschool mom, and just thinking about how do I make this all work? How does my family make this all work?It just seemed like every year the holidays brought in more stress and more chaos. I said, my readers feel the same. I know they absolutely are dealing with what we are, there's nothing new under the sun.I talked to some of my mentors, I think I might have even bounced some ideas off of you, Kerry, in the first year of this series, because this was a huge undertaking. This was the first time I had ever put anything like this together.But I had a mission, and the mission was to help other moms who were already in that October time of the year, and feeling the pressure to homeschool well, to host the holidays well, and to do it all with cheer, and with joy, and to never let anyone know that it's hard, or that it's difficult.I've been really open with my audience about the struggles of homeschooling. Part of the reason I do that is because when we started, which was more than a decade ago, nobody wants to talk about it. Everybody talked about the happy parts of homeschooling, and those should be celebrated. We are in the season of gratitude, we are being grateful and having positive attitudes, and those are good things.But sometimes we also just need someone to come along and say, the season's rough. And that's okay. And just someone to be with you.That is kind of where homeschooling through the holidays began. I really had a heart for homeschool moms that are stuck on the struggle, the overwhelm, the complexities, and just feeling like they have to do it all.That is so good. You are so transparent, I know, and that's one reason I wanted to have you here. I remember when I would speak at conferences, and these people are going, oh, my kids just love homeschooling all the time, they just love this, that, and the other, and I'm like, well, mine didn't always love it.Let's be real. I think we are now in a place, especially the last several years, especially after all the COVID stuff, that people are more open to say there really are struggles.What Holiday Homeschool Can Look LikeLet's talk a little bit about realistic expectations. What would that realistically look like in your homeschool?Kelly: If you are someone—if your child or your home thrives on order, it is okay to keep your schedule. Perhaps you do have a more rigid plan where you start school at 9, and then maybe you're done at 1. Perhaps your holiday homeschooling is going to look like we're going to curve that back.Maybe we're going to leave school from 9 to noon, because some children and some families, they thrive on systems and routine. To come out of that routine is just going to cause too much chaos, and that's okay.For other families, and we've done this ourselves, sometimes we take the whole season off. I had one year where I told the kids, we're going to do topic studies for December, not going to assign you any math, any history, any reading. My kids studied geography, they studied history, they studied mechanics, all through topics. One was studying hunting, so he learned about guides and hunting and different rules, and it led to animal studies as well.I had one that wanted to study the radio. So he learned about the history of the radio and radio programs, which does naturally lead into podcasting, because that's a very similar medium.I can tell you, we've done the rigid holiday homeschool, where I didn't leave any margin. One of our very first years, we had a program that had 180 days of learning. I was a new homeschool mom, I am very orderly, very by the book. I like structure.I had divided up all of our resources, I had scheduled all of our breaks, and kids get sick, and I didn't leave any wiggle room for sick days. So my poor son, while the rest of us were on Christmas break, was still learning because he had had some sick days.I made him sit there and do the work because that's what I thought homeschooling was. I was sucking the joy right out of it. When I say I've made every mistake in the book, I'm not exaggerating.It's an embarrassing story, it's a horrible story. I still feel bad for my son. He's an adult, he has moved on, he is functioning well in his adult years. But I started homeschooling him in middle elementary school, and I thought we had to be by the book. I thought the holiday breaks started when the work was done, rather than when we wanted the breaks to start.That is so good, because homeschooling is all about freedom, and we should be able to take the freedom that we have when we are schooling at home, or educating our kids at home. That doesn't mean it has to look like the two-week break that public schools take.I was actually—I feel very blessed. One of my good friends, we started homeschooling when my daughters were in third and fifth grade, and she'd been homeschooling since the beginning, kindergarten. She told me in November, she says, Kerry, one thing we've always done is we take the month of December off, and we make our homeschool centered on Christmas.I was a public school teacher, check those lesson plans, scope and sequence, all that stuff, but I was like, okay, I'm going to follow this, because one of the reasons we wanted homeschool was to get away from that system. That first year, that didn't mean they quit learning, it just didn't look the same.For us, at that age, we centered everything on Christmas kinds of things. When I taught school, every year, even in the public school, we did a Christmas around the world unit. So I knew that, so I was like, okay, we can at least do something that I don't have to figure all out.Keeping Learning Simple and MeaningfulHow can we keep learning simple, but also have meaning in our learning through November, Thanksgiving, December, Christmas, Advent, and all of that?Kelly: One of the best ways that I think we can keep learning simple is to make it relative to the time of year. This time of year, we're in our Thanksgiving and our Christmas season. It is a wonderful time to look at opportunities such as baking cookies for your neighbor.First of all, the serving. Scriptural lessons abound there. You are caring for others, you are being giving, but you're also, when you're cooking and when you're baking with your kids in your home, you've got measurements, you've got budgeting, especially if you're talking about how many cookies do we need, how much flour do we need?The other day, my daughter, she's 11, she wanted to start sourdough. There we are at 9 o'clock at night, talking about ratios, talking about flour, water, in starter, we're talking about how long it has to rise.You can do scripture copy work. It's a fabulous time. One of our favorite lessons that we do is we read through the book of Luke in December as a family. Everybody reads one chapter per day, and then we just have open discussions about it. Not everything in homeschooling has to end with a test.Many of the best lessons we give to our kids allow them to have a real-life application. Perhaps you're shoveling snow for neighbors. If you know a family that is affected with some food insecurity, maybe you're doing some secret Santa stuff, or you're just delivering a welcome basket.Churches often have opportunities for service. If you have any interest in the shoebox program, the shoebox program is a wonderful way to homeschool through the holidays and to really give an applicable lesson to your children that they can carry well into adulthood.If you are someone who wants to have a little bit more in your learning, there are Christmas books you can read, watch the movies, do a compare and contrast. You can bake through the movies. If your family likes, perhaps, ELF, there are some interesting recipes in that. Then you can lean into a study of nutrition.We love reading Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol, and then, of course we watch the movie, so that we can have some compare and contrast. It's one of my favorite things to do with books and stories. You can do copy work, you can study the authors, you can study the time period or the place where the book has been set.Sometimes we say that, because we've been homeschooling for a long time. For those of us that have been in this, we say, oh, it's easy! Grab a book, think of a lesson. If your listener is going, I have no idea how to sit with a book and think of a lesson, that's okay. Contact me, contact Kerry, and we would happily teach you how to read a book and pull out those lessons that are naturally just around your home and around your children.Favorite Holiday TraditionsYou mentioned Charles Dickens is one of your favorites. Can you think of anything that's either your favorite seasonal activity, tradition, or something that was your kid's favorite thing?Kelly: One of our favorite activities, and this is more of a family tradition, but it does fall into the homeschooling realm, and we still do this: when we decorate our home for the holiday season, we make homemade hot chocolate, we listen to classic Christmas carols.We just run around our house, we talk about our ornaments, we talk about the things that are going up, because I really want my holidays steeped in tradition. I want my children to look back with merriment and excitement for the times that they had. I firmly believe the holidays are a season, not just a day.My children will say they loved, absolutely loved the year we took December off from book learning, and we did the topical learning. That is not something that I have brought back, but it was a wonderful experiment for myself, more so than the kids. It gave me the permission to let go as we were diving into more relaxed learning.Charles Dickens, as I mentioned, that's a favorite. We read that every year, and we do read through Luke every year because I think it's important.This year, I'm hoping to throw in some Christmas around the world studies. It's not something we've ever tackled, but this year, I only have two—we're only homeschooling two, which is so different, it feels so tiny. I think it would be really interesting to learn how other cultures and even other time periods have celebrated Christmas.Of course, our modern Christmas, I don't think that it's reflective in many homes of what it should be. This year we're really taking a spin. We're doing character training. We're really working on characters and hearts, and really just making sure that hospitality, bravery, integrity, and gratitude—those are some of our big focuses for this year.I think some holiday around the world studies are going to just help pull us back, and really have my kids thinking, and of course, any of our listeners, put a little perspective.We don't realize that sometimes our traditions that we have here in the United States have come from other countries. There's one story about a man named Boniface, who was in Germany. He moved from England to Germany, and there's a whole long story to get to why he's whacking off branches, and the branches end up being the boughs that they put over their fireplace.I have a hard time with this. People are like, oh, but that's a pagan thing. I'm like, you know what? Jesus went and spoke parables about where those people were at that moment in time to draw spiritual truths, and that's what Boniface was doing.When you do start, you're going to learn things in history that are not in a textbook. You're just going to grow so much. I loved Christmas around the world, and plus, you can always throw food in there, and if I threw food in something, my kids always paid a little more attention.Kelly: If you keep little hands busy with a snack, that's one of my favorite tools, especially for a longer lesson or a boring lesson.Changing Your Mindset About Being "Behind"I know some moms are like, okay, well, that all sounds good. But I'm either not sure if I can really take a break. I've even had some moms, what do you do with your missing days? And I'm like, those aren't missing days, those are creative ways you can still count English or reading and all that stuff.But some people are like, how do I take a break? How do I not be behind? I don't want to be overwhelmed. To me, it's all a mindset thing. We've got to sort of reset our mind, our expectations. What do you have any suggestions to where they can sort of change their mindset and still come out with some semblance of peace throughout the holidays?Kelly: That was part of the reason I started thinking about the story that I shared earlier about my son. I was so worried about him being behind in his book. Here he is, I think 4th grade maybe, and I am cutting into his Christmas break while everyone else is pausing, because I am worried about some outside pressure.If you've got mom guilt, it's okay. I've got mom guilt, too. We feel guilty because we care, and we feel guilty because we want to make sure that we're doing a great job. That, in and of itself, already tells me you're doing amazing as a homeschool mom.However, I will say, over the years that I have learned, rest needs to be as much a part of our homeschooling as the busyness. We have got to allow for natural breaks, and encourage our children to not always run on autopilot.American society, especially in this modern world, we are go, go, go. We are always talking about time hacks and efficiency, and how can we learn more, do more, multitask. We've done it to a fault. Our children aren't robots.Our children need natural times of rest, to decompress, to allow our brains to process what we've learned, to slow down. I go back to Scripture. God created rest in the beginning. His seventh day, right after he put humanity on this earth, he rested from His work.I'm not going to go so legalistic as to say following the Sabbath, but God put rest for Himself, and he gives the Earth a natural rest. Winter and the slowing down of the seasons—especially, again, I'm up here in Maine. Nothing is growing, nothing is blossoming and blooming, because everything's at rest during the winter.As the days get shorter, as our daylight hours decompress, maybe that's time for us to just say, you know what, we're gonna slow down too. We're gonna focus on the birth of Christ, we're gonna focus on our families, we're gonna really understand what this means, rather than just check boxes.Because when our kids are stressed, and when everybody's under pressure to learn, is anyone actually learning? I just had this conversation yesterday with my daughter. She's working on the countries of Central America. She just wants to get through it as fast as she can.She's just reading them off the map, she's saying them all wrong, Ecuador, El Salvador, and I'm like, let's slow down. And she's like, it's 3 o'clock in the afternoon! That's okay. Learning can happen on the weekends, can happen on the evenings, and it often happens best when we have our children's attention, when we have their curiosity, and when we can make it fun.Our children are programmed for fun. I go back to that story, my son was not learning that year. I was just drilling him, finish the workbook, finish the worksheet, finish, go, go, go, go, go. I don't think he remembers those lessons. I don't think those have applied.I learned more out of what NOT to do in that season. If we have a listener out here who is struggling with, how do I take a day off? How do we take a week off? What about all this math? It's a 36-week program.It's gonna be okay if you get to May, and you've only done 30 weeks. You can still be done with their school year at 30 weeks and pick up with week 31 when your school year resumes.You can always, if you've got a child who's interested and they want to move a little faster in the spring when the days are longer, that's okay. No one says that we have to finish every book, finish every worksheet. No one says we have to do all 45 minutes of the curriculum every day.If we have moms out there that are struggling, the best thing they can do is say, I feel guilty, but I'm still gonna pause because I know it's what's best for my kid.As we as moms learn how to do that, and teach ourselves how to rest, it will be easier. Next year will be easier, because you'll get to January this year and be like, okay, we're gonna pick up, we're gonna start, we're all refreshed, we're ready to learn.Then next year, when the guilt comes, or the concern about the slowing down for the holidays, you're gonna be like, no, we did fine. We get to January, and nobody missed out on anything.You know, I was a public school teacher for 6 years. I don't know that I ever finished a textbook. Even in math, because mastery was more important to me. I think that is an artificial pressure that moms are putting on themselves. They're comparing themselves and thinking they're behind because everyone else is ahead, and those people aren't telling you the whole story anyway.I love the idea of rest. I probably would get on the Sabbath soapbox, because I totally believe that we do need a rest. Our bodies do, and when I think about between Thanksgiving and Christmas, we have four weeks of Advent, and you can take that Sunday and spend some time, not in education, but just discovering what—I don't know the order, joy, peace, love, and hope are the four weeks of Advent.You could begin that Sunday reading something in the Bible about that. That is educational, and sometimes I personally believe that is more important than whether they know what 3 plus 3 is, or whether they know trigonometry, or the law of physics.I'm not saying those things are unimportant, depending on the job. But I think we need to always keep our priorities. This is a perfect time to bring Jesus Christ into our homeschool, into our education.Prioritizing Peace Over PerfectionWhen families prioritize peace over perfection, and peace, meaning their focus is on Jesus, that is the reason for the season. Have you seen some benefits from doing that, or any tips and tricks on how you could do that?Kelly: I have been very open with my first few years of homeschooling, and there was no peace. Peace was not the priority at all. In fact, my priority was doing better than the public school. That's it. I had pulled my kids out, and we were going to do better than them, no matter what.I can tell you that that was the wrong motive. My relationship with my children suffered during that time. My relationship with my spouse suffered during that time. I quit homeschooling, actually, during that time, because I was going at it with all the wrong motives. I was going at it from the wrong direction. It was more about me than anything else.When families choose peace over perfection, as you had mentioned, the atmosphere of the home changes. All of a sudden, kids are okay. If they spill the milk, they know, maybe someone's gonna come help me clean it up, instead of someone just coming and lashing out.We do this thing in our home. We go back and forth with food. Sometimes we have breakfast brownies, because fun. The kids' love language is fun. Sometimes we eat breakfast brownies, but sometimes we eat Froot Loops, too. In all honesty, what's the difference between Froot Loops and brownies? I don't think there is any.It's just a matter of how can we connect with our kids? Jesus never hurried in His ministry. He knew he had just the right amount of time.In our world, we tell everybody we have to hurry. If you look online, you will be told that you only have 18 summers with your children. You only have 18 Christmases. We're told to just soak it all up, and just enjoy it while it lasts.I still see my adult children, and I know you do as well. I still see my parents. We have this fallacy that we need to rush through life, we need to make sure that we're perfectly preparing our kids academically, and we just miss the heart.We need to connect with our kids, especially in this modern world where everything is trying to pull our kids away. I firmly believe that when God created the family unit, there was a purpose behind that—the two parents, the children, and God gave us these children.Some of us have parented through many difficult seasons. If you ask any parent that has an adult child, they've got some stories. It's okay, because we can share those stories, and we can share those accounts with other moms that are in the trenches.Titus 2 talks about sharing, and the elder women are to teach the younger women how to love their husbands and love their children. I can remember when I read that passage and it clicked. Motherhood might not always be instinctual and natural. We need the village, so we need other homeschool moms, we need Titus 2 moms.When the enemy comes in, and he tells us to rush through holidays, or to rush through the lessons, or to just hurry our children alone, or to fix the cookie because their candy cane cookies aren't perfectly shaped, just tell him no.No is a complete sentence, and it is the best defense you have against the outside pressures of the world.As I mentioned earlier, we do a lot of traditions, because I think traditions keep us rooted. It's okay if traditions change, too. We used to just bake cookies as a family, but a few years ago, I read another mom blogger, and she bakes one batch of cookies with each of her children.I said, oh, I love that. So I'm going to adopt that tradition, because the more my kids get older, the more I said, okay, I want to be rooted with them. I want to figure out how to transition and have good adult relationships with them.If you're home right now, it's feeling chaotic. If the idea of the holidays are stressing you out and you're concerned, think about a way you can just add one thing. Maybe it is cooking with your kids, rather than worrying about math.Maybe you are going to pause history in exchange for maybe a movie night with your children. Perhaps you're gonna say, you know what, we need some new holiday traditions, and just hop on Google real quick. I'm sure a quick Google search will yield you dozens!I know I have a blog post about holiday traditions that you can start with your family. So there are many ways, and I think those traditions, and remembering that rest is okay, are two of the best ways that you can maintain peace in your home and homeschool during the holiday season.I will say rest is so important, and I love the idea of winter is when everything dies. But then, at the end of winter, spring comes up, and there's beauty and flowers and all of this. It's just a season of the year, and just like it's a season of your life. Sometimes we do need to rest.I could get on my soapbox about all the health benefits, and all the emotional benefits, and everything. It's more than that, but if for no other reason, God tells us to rest, and so we need to, and there is beauty after that rest, or that dead season.I do have to share real quickly, you mentioned, y'all, the baking with your kids. We bake cookies, but my kids sold the cookies that they baked, and then they used the profits to buy gifts. We would choose one missionary family every single year, and then they would use the profit to go—this is back before you had Amazon and you could ship all around the world. You had to actually go buy it, wrap it, put it in a box, and go to the post office to send it over to Europe.To this day, all three of my kids will tell you that is their favorite Christmas tradition that we did. We also made pumpkin bread, and my middle daughter doesn't like pumpkin bread at all, but when she had to do something at work to represent her favorite family tradition, she baked that pumpkin bread and took it up there and gave it to everyone else, because there were just so many memories, and it had more purpose than just baking cookies and eating them. Or like you said, baking cookies and giving them out to your neighbors. There's so much you can do that can add some purpose to it as well.Kelly: There is. I know you've actually shared that story before, Kerry, when you were a contributor to homeschooling through the holidays, I have a whole blog post where you shared in depth how people can utilize that in their homeschool, and it is a wonderful tradition.I don't even know how I ever got it, but somehow God laid it on my heart. But speaking of homeschooling through the holidays, how can people learn more about that, or if they want to get in contact with you, how can they reach out to you?Kelly: As I said at the beginning, homeschooling through the holidays, we're in our third season, or our third year. This year we launch on November 17th. Everything's gonna be on my website, it's hopeinthechaos.com.That's the easier way to get through it. We can drop the full URL in the show notes, wherever people are watching. We do have the two previous seasons as well, if someone wants to catch up, if they want to see your tip on how to do the baking and the selling.I really want moms to get to the end of the holiday season, whether that's December 26th, whether that's January 1st, wherever, or if you go right through Advent into January. I really want moms to get to the end and be able to say, I enjoyed that, not I survived that.Raising children is a season in life, and it's not one that we need to be surviving. We do need to be enjoying it, and we do need to be finding the opportunities to cling to the hem of the garment, because there are times when it's hard. There are times when it's just downright depressing.This is where the Lord is leading me. He tells us that we can find rest with Him. That's part of the reason for this series, is to give moms practical tips and advice that allow them to remain centered on Christ, remain focused on their families, and be able to get to the end of the holiday season and just say, I enjoyed that.There are so many people that don't have that opportunity. Those of us who are blessed enough to be in the homeschool world and to be sharing our knowledge, we have an amazing opportunity to help lift homeschool moms up, and to share what we have learned, and spare one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ as we do that.That's where the heart is, in this series, which is 4 weeks long. It is a whirlwind of information. We have some amazing contributors, including yourself, and we have some amazing sponsors.I know that you said you weren't sure if this was coming out during the first week or the second week, but even if this comes out the second week of the series, during the week of Thanksgiving, we're gonna launch the anchor post, which is the start of the series, and it's gonna allow your readers to find all 20 episodes in this year's series.Final Encouragement and Free ResourceThat is awesome. Well, that sort of sums it all up. I was going to ask you if there was anything else you wanted to leave our moms with before we close. You said so many good things, but if there is, now would be a great time to do that.Kelly: I did—I think we had talked about this briefly, it never came up in any of the questions. I would love to help your audience kind of combat some of the chaos of holiday homeschooling by offering them a free copy of my Ultimate Holiday Planner.It's just a simple way, I'm a planner, and so it is a simple way for them to just jot down all of the things, whether it's hosting holiday parties, finishing up Christmas shopping, wrapping gifts, baking cookies, or other traditions with the kids, and to put it all in just one simple place.I'm gonna have that link available. It's gonna be down in the show notes, rather than trying to spit it out and have someone try to type it and remember it. Because I really want to help your audience get to the end of the holiday season, whatever that is for them, wherever that date falls, and thoroughly feel like they enjoyed the time.It was memorable, it was peaceful, it was not stressful, even if there might have been some times where it was kind of a little bit chaotic. Because we can handle chaos without letting it overwhelm us. We do that by having systems, by having tools, and by having support.Very good. Well, Kelly, thank you so much for spending time with us, taking some time out of your day. I really appreciate it.Kelly: Yes, Kerry, I thank you for having me. You have a wonderful holiday.Ready to simplify your holiday homeschool season? Grab Kelly's free Ultimate Holiday Planner at the link above and check out the Homeschooling Through the Holidays series at hopeinthechaos.com for 4 weeks of practical tips from 16 amazing bloggers. You can get to the end of December and say "I enjoyed that" not "I survived that"!

Chatty Strangers (and is Kelly One) by Maine's Coast 93.1

Al and Kelly talk about Grimoire Groves Disclosure: We received a free review code for Grimoire Groves. #gifted Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:02:23: What Have We Been Up To 00:12:16: Game News 00:36:28: New Games 00:39:42: Grimoire Groves 01:12:37: Outro Links Harvest Moon Pre-Orders Bugaboo Pocket Release Date Fields of Mistria 2nd Update Go-go Town “Spring Cleaning” Update Sun Haven “Festivals” 2.0 Update Autonomica (Farm Folks) Name Change Coral Island 2025 Roadmap Everdream Village Contact Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:30) Al: Hello, farmers, and welcome to another episode of the Harvest Season. (0:00:34) Al: My name is Al, and we are here today to talk about cottagecore games. (0:00:36) Kelly: And my name is Kelly. (0:00:40) Kelly: Yay. (0:00:41) Al: Welcome back, Kelly. How are you doing? (0:00:44) Kelly: Good. (0:00:44) Kelly: It’s always nice to be back. (0:00:46) Kelly: It’s so funny, because all of my voice recordings are just– (0:00:46) Al: Always nice to have you. (0:00:52) Kelly: oh, it’s like memory lane looking at all the past podcasts. (0:00:56) Al: You were last on talking about fields of mystery, which we might have stuff to talk about with (0:01:00) Kelly: Yes, yes. (0:01:04) Kelly: Yeah, I saw there was a note, but I (0:01:06) Kelly: I haven’t checked it out since we last spoke. (0:01:10) Kelly: Yeah, how have you been? (0:01:10) Al: But yeah, your first one of the year you did three last year. (0:01:12) Kelly: Oh, yeah, 2025. (0:01:14) Al: Let’s see if we can get you above three this year. (0:01:19) Al: Cool. Well, I have Kelly on this episode because we are going to (0:01:23) Al: talk about grimoire groves, grimoire groves. (0:01:28) Kelly: Yes, it’s like a little tongue twister. (0:01:31) Al: Yes, grimoire groves. (0:01:34) Al: Got to say up front, obviously, we received a free review code (0:01:38) Al: for the game, which actually can. (0:01:40) Al: I don’t know. No, that was a joke. That was a joke. That was a joke. (0:02:00) Kelly: No, no, no, no, I would absolutely pay money for this game. (0:02:11) Al: Spoiler alert. Yeah, so we’re going to talk about that game later in the episode. Before (0:02:15) Kelly: And thank you, Al, for that. (0:02:22) Al: that, we’ve obviously got a bunch of news, but first of all, Kelly, what have you been (0:02:26) Kelly: I have been up to taking care of a stray cat and then just trying to start (0:02:33) Kelly: planning out stuff for the spring for the yard. (0:02:36) Al: Oh, yes. Is it garden talking time? What’s your plans for this year? (0:02:39) Kelly: Yeah, but also we’re trying to… I don’t know yet. I’m still waiting but I have to (0:02:47) Kelly: clean up the yard because I prioritized weeding other areas of the house last (0:02:51) Kelly: fall instead of the garden, so it’s still kind of overgrown. (0:02:56) Kelly: I’m trying to get dirt so I can level out the borders of the (0:02:59) Kelly: yard and then tarp them. So exciting. And besides that, I’ve (0:03:08) Kelly: been playing Infinity Nikki for three solid months. This broke (0:03:11) Kelly: my streak, actually. I still play the game every day, so it (0:03:12) Al: No, I haven’t played it (0:03:17) Kelly: didn’t actually break my streak. I just was the only game I was (0:03:19) Kelly: playing for three months. (0:03:22) Al: Fair enough. I haven’t played Infinity Nakey. I’m pretty sure that Dalin plays it as well. (0:03:29) Al: I think we’ve talked about it before, but if you’ve been playing it for three months (0:03:34) Al: straight, I guess you’ve been enjoying it then. (0:03:36) Kelly: - Yes, yes, I think there were definitely moments, (0:03:39) Al: This is the dress-up game, right? Yeah. (0:03:41) Kelly: yes, there were definitely moments where I was playing it (0:03:43) Kelly: ‘cause I just was like, I don’t really have anything else (0:03:45) Kelly: I’m trying to play at the moment, (0:03:48) Kelly: but there is a lot of content and it looks really nice (0:03:51) Kelly: and it’s just like fun to run around the open world (0:03:53) Kelly: and like collect your stuff. (0:03:55) Kelly: It’s just a collecting game. (0:03:56) Al: Yeah. Look, you’re talking to a Pokemon player, right? Like, I know what collecting is like, (0:04:01) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:04:03) Al: I know the feeling. I think it’s a unique part of it, is the fact that it’s a gacha (0:04:10) Al: collecting game, but with outfits, I think is fun. (0:04:12) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:04:14) Kelly: Yes. (0:04:15) Kelly: And unfortunately, there are some things (0:04:19) Kelly: that you cannot beat with essentially not doing the gotcha, (0:04:22) Kelly: but you don’t have to do everything. (0:04:24) Kelly: It’s not going to stop your story progression. (0:04:27) Kelly: You’re just not going to get bonuses. (0:04:30) Al: Right. They’ve got to have a reason for you to pay money, right? (0:04:30) Kelly: You’re just not going to get the coolest outfit. (0:04:33) Kelly: Did I– absolutely. (0:04:36) Kelly: And did I spend some money to get a frog outfit? (0:04:40) Kelly: Yes, but it was a surprise. (0:04:42) Kelly: There was a dog outfit and I needed it. (0:04:44) Kelly: But also like the game is free also, so. (0:04:47) Al: Yes. And, well, yes, exactly. Tell me that three years ago. The thing about these three games is, (0:04:48) Kelly: You just have to you have to restrain yourself. (0:04:57) Al: yeah, you’ve got to make sure that you’re not going over the top, but you’ve also got to think (0:05:00) Al: about how much time and fun you’ve gotten out of games. Like, you know, if I think about Pokemon Go, (0:05:04) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:05:07) Al: I have obviously, I’ve definitely put too much money into that. But also when I think about the (0:05:07) Kelly: Ah, yes. (0:05:11) Al: amount of time that I spend in that game. Like, I spend hours every single day. (0:05:16) Kelly: Oh, I was Pokemon go is probably my highest. Yeah (0:05:17) Al: For eight, for nine years now. (0:05:22) Kelly: Like I don’t and I I I go back and forth on playing it but that game has (0:05:27) Kelly: That’s my most played game because of that (0:05:28) Al: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, ever. Yeah, that don’t think is… (0:05:31) Kelly: Like it beat my Sims like legacy of like, you know playing that from like 10 years old or whatever (0:05:38) Al: I think the thing is that because it’s so accessible, but also because you’re playing (0:05:41) Kelly: It’s so accessible it’s in your hand (0:05:45) Al: it for so many years, even if you only played half an hour every day after 10 years, which (0:05:47) Kelly: Mm-hmm. Yes, exactly (0:05:54) Al: in a year and a bit, it’ll be 10 years since the game came out, if you’ve only played half (0:05:58) Kelly: That’s disgusting, don’t say that. (0:06:05) Al: an error, but you do it every single day for the for the for. (0:06:08) Al: 10 years, that is nearly 2000 hours. That’s the thing, the (0:06:12) Kelly: that’s insane but yeah no it’s it’s true yeah exactly but yeah it’s so it’s like (0:06:15) Al: numbers just add up so fast. And let me tell you, it’s way more (0:06:20) Al: than half an hour I’ve played every single day. (0:06:20) Kelly: okay yeah yeah and it’s like okay so like if I put some money in it every (0:06:26) Kelly: year like I’m getting so much out of it you know and I played love Nikki which (0:06:31) Kelly: is what is the phone game before like there’s been other phone games before (0:06:36) Kelly: this too but that was the one I got really into which is different like (0:06:40) Kelly: setup wise, but essentially it’s just an outfit game again. (0:06:42) Kelly: Gotcha outfit game and again, it’s like okay. I played that game for like four years. I put some money into it (0:06:49) Kelly: But I played it a lot like I spent so much time playing that game (0:06:52) Al: Yeah, as long as you can afford what you’re doing, that’s the important thing. (0:06:56) Kelly: Exactly, but yeah, what have you been up to? (0:07:00) Al: I have been procrastinating playing Grimoire Crows. (0:07:06) Al: Every so often, I end up in this situation where I’m like, this is a game that I need to play, (0:07:11) Al: and then I end up not playing it very much. And instead of procrastinating by playing other games, (0:07:17) Al: I procrastinate by doing other things instead. So I’ve not really done much this week at all. (0:07:20) Kelly: Yep. (0:07:23) Al: I have started a shiny hunt for Regigigas in Pokémon Sword. I’m at the point where I need to (0:07:38) Al: actually get through the rest of the legendaries. I don’t have a shiny if I want to finish my (0:07:43) Al: living decks, because I’m 110 left. And so I’m going to run out of non-legendaries very soon. (0:07:48) Kelly: Oh, my god. (0:07:52) Al: And so I thought, let’s start this one, because I can’t just… Yeah, exactly. (0:07:55) Kelly: Start breaking it up. (0:07:58) Kelly: Yeah, no, I understand that. (0:08:00) Kelly: I used to do that with Angry Birds. (0:08:04) Al: You’re going to have to explain that. (0:08:10) Kelly: Since Angry Birds came out, any phone that I get, (0:08:13) Kelly: I download Angry Birds and beat the whole game again. (0:08:15) Al: You replay it all again, oh my word! (0:08:16) Kelly: 3 stars? (0:08:18) Kelly: I’m less about it now, I just kinda go back to it when I’m bored. So like, you know, I have my phone for a while, eventually I get all the stars. But there’s certain levels that even after all these years of replaying it, they’re just difficult. And they piss me off. So I’ll break it down. (0:08:25) Al: look it’s fun it’s a fun game but I can’t say i’ve played it in the last 15 years (0:08:48) Kelly: I always break those up when I go back to get the 3 stars for them. So it’s the same thing where it’s like, I don’t want to do the really tough thing repeatedly and then just get frustrated at the game. Like it’s boring, you know? It gets boring. (0:08:56) Al: Fair enough. My 15 years might have been a bit of an exaggeration, however it is only (0:09:04) Al: 15 years since it’s 15 years since the first game came out. I can’t believe it’s been 15 years, (0:09:06) Kelly: Yes, yes, because I played it on the first iPhone I had, or an only iPhone. (0:09:09) Al: that’s wild. It was it was definitely it was one of the it was one of the early games that made you (0:09:20) Al: go ’this is why I want a touchscreen’ and it was that and (0:09:22) Kelly: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. (0:09:26) Al: Fruit Ninja and Digital Jump. Those were like the three that made me realize I get it, (0:09:27) Kelly: Yes, I never got into Fruit Ninja. (0:09:36) Al: I would like a touchscreen please. (0:09:38) Kelly: Yep. Well, that was the thrill of like, you know, with the iPhone too. It was like, oh, this is so sick. I can, I can play these fun games. I can do this for a peggle. (0:09:48) Kelly: I played peggle so much on that phone. It’s pinball. (0:09:52) Al: Okay, no, I didn’t. I didn’t play that one. I don’t think I need more games. (0:09:54) Kelly: Oh, you should look it up. I think you like peggle. (0:10:03) Al: Yeah, fun. All right. I think that’s all. Is that all I’ve got to talk about? I’m shiny (0:10:09) Al: hunting. I think so. I played… You were the one that you were you were spying me on steam. (0:10:16) Al: Was it like half an hour I played of Grimoire Groves or something? (0:10:16) Kelly: Oh, yeah, I was watching you all week because every time I’d sign on to the Steam, it’s (0:10:22) Kelly: like you’re the only person I know that has the game also. (0:10:22) Al: Oh, I’ve got an hour and 20 minutes apparently on steam there. Okay. That was yesterday. (0:10:26) Kelly: So for like the whole week, it was like 12 minutes playing. (0:10:30) Kelly: Yes, now, I see it now, but I was like watching it. (0:10:37) Kelly: I know because like two days ago, I was like, he’s still, he is cutting it close. (0:10:43) Al: Look, well, the problem was you messaged me and you said, “I’m loving this game. I’m (0:10:48) Al: played it so much.” And I’m like, “Okay, cool. I don’t need to then.” (0:10:52) Al: Yeah. No, I legitimately think that’s all I’ve (0:10:53) Kelly: Also, I’m the problem. (0:11:02) Al: done this week is like shiny hunting and Pokémon Go. (0:11:05) Kelly: sometimes it’s like you just get that mental block where you just can’t (0:11:08) Al: Yeah. Oh, I did do… I know. I did do the the Scarlet and Violet Quack Quack Quack Quaville (0:11:09) Kelly: even you’re just like oh I gotta I gotta do this but I can’t (0:11:20) Al: raids. I don’t think I’ve ever figured out how to say the name of that. (0:11:21) Kelly: What? What is that? I actually did not play Scarlet and Violet. (0:11:22) Al: Pokémon. Did you not? Um, it’s the, uh, it’s based on like carnival dancers. Uh, let me send you. (0:11:36) Kelly: Okay (0:11:38) Kelly: But like what is it you do the dancing like you (0:11:40) Al: It’s a Pokémon. Oh, no, no, just like a raid, like a normal Pokémon raid. (0:11:45) Kelly: Oh, but it’s like dressed up like a carnival dancer (0:11:49) Al: No, no, clearly you completely misunderstood this. This is just a Pokémon. (0:11:51) Kelly: Okay (0:11:52) Al: A Pokémon that is based on a carnival dancer. That’s the Pokémon, (0:11:57) Kelly: Oh, but that’s what you’re waiting for (0:11:57) Al: but they’ve done, there’s a raid to defeat it and capture it, yes. (0:12:01) Kelly: Okay, okay, I’m sorry. I thought this was like a costume Pokemon. You know what I mean? (0:12:05) Al: Oh, no, it’s not. They’ve not done that in the main games yet. Um, yeah, that’s it. (0:12:06) Kelly: Okay (0:12:12) Al: That’s the entirety of that. It was a raid. I did it. There we go. Done. Uh, (0:12:17) Al: should we talk about some news? Because the section is being a little bit of a disaster. (0:12:21) Al: Um… (0:12:23) Al: So, first up, the moment you’ve all been waiting for, we have some news on Harvest Moon, (0:12:30) Al: The Lost Valley, and Skytree Village, the ports or remasters, however they want to call them, (0:12:38) Al: for Switch, which for some reason they’ve decided to do, is up for pre-order now. (0:12:44) Al: It is $40 for the two of them, which still feels like too much, but (0:12:51) Al: I feel like it says a lot. (0:12:52) Al: When they’re selling two full games that they originally sold individually on separate consoles, (0:12:59) Al: and they’ve ported them both to the Switch, and they’re selling them both together for $40. (0:13:03) Al: That shows you how much people definitely want to buy these games. (0:13:07) Kelly: Yeah, cuz a lot of these remakes are like still a full 60 dollars alone. Yeah (0:13:11) Al: Exactly. The good ones are. (0:13:15) Al: So it’s coming out in June. Previously, we just knew it was coming out in the summer. (0:13:19) Al: We don’t have an exact date as far as I can see, just says June. (0:13:23) Al: And if you pre-order it now, you get a free acrylic standee (0:13:27) Al: with some of the worst art I’ve seen for a Harvestmen game ever. (0:13:31) Kelly: I can tell you really like this one. (0:13:33) Al: I haven’t even played these games, but I know for a fact they’re bad (0:13:36) Al: because I talked to Rachelle about them and they did not like them and yeah. (0:13:39) Kelly: I can never remember which ones are bad but the art for this one does not look good. (0:13:47) Al: These were I think the first two they did after the split between Harvestmen and (0:13:53) Al: so these were the first ones that weren’t by the original team. (0:13:56) Al: They were by Natsume and let’s just say they hadn’t made any games before and you can tell. (0:14:08) Al: I do, I will, I’m so strongly of the opinion that I think that people sometimes are judging (0:14:17) Al: Harvestmen too harshly purely because they’re angry that they kept the name and didn’t give (0:14:23) Al: back but that’s how these things work and I’m sorry you dislike that but I think if you actually (0:14:29) Al: played some of the newer games they’re not as bad as you think but these ones I’m pretty sure are. (0:14:37) Kelly: - Fair enough, I think that’s a fair point. (0:14:40) Al: The way I described it in the last episode I did with Micah is (0:14:43) Al: they are so close to having a good game. (0:14:47) Kelly: Oh, with the new ones. (0:14:48) Al: Yeah, they’re so close. So close. (0:14:51) Kelly: Maybe next– maybe next game, they’ll hit it. (0:14:52) Al: what we said for three games now. Each game they do is better than the last. Yes, but (0:15:00) Kelly: OK, so they’re growing slowly. (0:15:02) Al: they do still make some bizarre decisions in those games. They’ve also released a whole (0:15:07) Al: bunch of screenshots. And yeah, I mean, they basically look like the original games did, (0:15:13) Al: but with, I guess, more pixels, but not more pixels on the actual models, just more pixels. (0:15:20) Al: So it’s like– (0:15:20) Kelly: No, they look like knees, but like with a little bit better quality. (0:15:22) Al: Yeah, yeah, that’s exact. It looks better quality, but not in a good way. (0:15:30) Kelly: No. (0:15:31) Al: It looks like HD kind of, but it’s like you’ve got HD upscaled basically, right? (0:15:39) Al: Like you were recording on a really old camera and you’ve upscaled it to HD, (0:15:43) Al: so it’s like everything is shiny and lots of pixels, but it still doesn’t look good. (0:15:52) Kelly: - Yeah, no, it’s not right. (0:15:53) Al: These were a DS and a 3DS game, I think, originally, so they have had to merge the two screens. (0:16:02) Al: However, I think the bottom screen was mostly just like for the map, (0:16:06) Al: and so they now have a mini map on the screen, so… (0:16:09) Kelly: Okay, I feel like a lot of games like this have like the map or like controls or something at the bottom (0:16:14) Al: Yeah, yeah, so I guess we’ll see. (0:16:19) Al: I don’t, I’m gonna buy this. (0:16:22) Kelly: I like, did you notice that it’s so you said it’s releasing in June, but then at the top (0:16:23) Al: I’m gonna do my duty for the podcast, you’re welcome. (0:16:33) Kelly: it says ships in April to June. (0:16:36) Al: Yeah, if you scroll down to the product description, it says release date June 2025. (0:16:41) Kelly: interesting so this game is worth that $25 basically (0:16:43) Al: Apparently, the acrylic standee is worth $13. (0:16:48) Al: So yeah, well, I don’t know what to say. You probably shouldn’t buy this. (0:17:02) Al: But I will. Next, we have Bugaboo Pocket. (0:17:07) Al: Have announced that the release date is on the 2nd of April. I don’t know if you’ve (0:17:11) Al: seen this game, Kelly. It’s a bug game. It’s like a bug Pokémon, but like on… (0:17:12) Kelly: I have not. What is this? (0:17:20) Al: How do I describe this? It’s like virtual pets. So like Tamagotchis. (0:17:24) Kelly: Oh, okay, I see it now. Now I got the screen page, but it’s got like way more details. (0:17:30) Al: Yes, yeah, it’s very much like modernized in terms of how you would interact. (0:17:37) Al: Quality of graphics and is much more intense from that sort of aspect of things. (0:17:43) Al: But I think you also can, for lack of a better phrase, because I’m very tired. (0:17:51) Al: It’s the end of the weekend. Do science on them. I don’t know how to describe it. (0:17:57) Kelly: Like, experiments? (0:17:58) Al: No experiment. No, that would be immoral. No, inspect them and look at them. (0:18:06) Kelly: Oh, OK. (0:18:07) Al: There is like if you have… (0:18:09) Kelly: Oh, and pin them. (0:18:10) Kelly: It looks like you can pin them. (0:18:11) Al: Yeah, but those are dead. Like you’re not pinning a live one, right? (0:18:13) Kelly: Yeah, that would be immoral also. (0:18:18) Kelly: I hope so. (0:18:19) Kelly: I’m just looking at pictures. (0:18:22) Al: So yeah, it’s much more involved than a Tamagotchi. (0:18:28) Kelly: The graphics look really cool. (0:18:30) Al: Yeah, Cody is excited to play this. (0:18:33) Kelly: I’m sure that makes sense. (0:18:36) Kelly: This looks really cool, honestly. (0:18:37) Al: Anyway, coming on the 2nd of April. Next, we have the Fields of Mistria 2nd update. (0:18:45) Al: It’s out now, Kelly. Have you played it yet? (0:18:48) Kelly: Not since, uh, November, end of November, since we talked. (0:18:54) Al: Yeah, that was just the first update that was then, so. (0:18:56) Kelly: Yeah, ‘cause I had finished everything that you could possibly do at that point, (0:19:00) Kelly: and I was like, “Okay, I gotta, I don’t wanna kill the game for myself.” (0:19:00) Al: Yep. (0:19:04) Al: We were on the same page at that point, right? Basically, I think we’d both done everything you could do in the game and didn’t want to destroy our enthusiasm for the game. But does that mean you’re definitely not going to get jump into the game with this new update? (0:19:13) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:19:20) Kelly: I’m probably going to wait. (0:19:23) Kelly: I mean, I started breeding for different color animals (0:19:27) Kelly: and stuff, like the tears. (0:19:28) Kelly: So I had been failing my time with that, (0:19:30) Kelly: but mostly because I didn’t have a new game. (0:19:34) Kelly: But yeah, I’m going to wait and see. (0:19:35) Kelly: I got games coming out soon. (0:19:37) Kelly: We got “Rethopia.” (0:19:38) Al: Yes, oh, yes, that’s that (0:19:41) Kelly: I got a solid amount of games currently. (0:19:43) Kelly: So I gotta actually, like, focus on them. (0:19:46) Al: That’s fair. We’ve already covered what’s out in this update, so let’s not spend too long on it. (0:19:50) Kelly: Mm-hmm, okay. (0:19:50) Al: Next we have Gogotown. Their next update Spring Cleaning is out now. I presume you haven’t played (0:19:59) Al: this game. It is fun. It definitely feels very polished for the way that I talked about it in (0:20:07) Al: the episode I did on it. It’s very polished what is there, but it feels like it’s a long way to go (0:20:13) Al: to feel complete. (0:20:15) Kelly: Okay, that’s fair. I mean it seems very ambitious looking so hopefully they just get there (0:20:16) Al: Yeah, a number of things in this update, you can now store a tool and a vehicle on (0:20:29) Al: yourself, it says in a patented Townco dimensional pocket. Basically, you had vehicles, but you (0:20:36) Al: had to like park them somewhere. So now you can keep one of them on yourself. So you have (0:20:40) Al: to keep running back to the parking spaces, which is a nice update. There’s also (0:20:46) Al: a Town info app that gives you a bunch of information on the Town. 360 degree camera (0:20:52) Al: rotation, which is good. I like this. Oh yes, what was that? You’ve asked for it. We’ve (0:20:56) Kelly: I like their note on this. (0:21:00) Al: put in an experimental setting for you to rotate the camera 360 degrees. Fair enough. (0:21:05) Kelly: The screenshot is definitely making me dizzy though, looking at it too long. (0:21:07) Al: Yes, you can definitely tell us experimental. There’s some things that move out of view when (0:21:13) Al: when they shouldn’t do and stuff like that. (0:21:17) Al: A work in progress. (0:21:17) Kelly: But I mean like they they they put it out there that it’s experimental so. (0:21:20) Al: Yep, yep, and they’ve also added (0:21:23) Al: infinite seeds for your farming, which I am intrigued by because I thought (0:21:28) Al: when you planted a seed, the plant never never seemed to die. (0:21:33) Al: It just seemed to always grow new stuff. (0:21:35) Al: So you essentially had infinite stuff, right? (0:21:38) Al: Because as soon as you had a seed, you just (0:21:39) Al: planted it and you had that plant forever. (0:21:40) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:21:41) Al: But maybe I’m misremembering. (0:21:44) Kelly: Maybe they changed it. (0:21:46) Al: updates as well. But yeah, those are the main ones that I noticed. (0:21:49) Al: Next, we have Sunhaven have released their 2.0 update. (0:21:53) Al: And you’re like, oh, 2.0, that sounds like it might be a big update. (0:21:57) Al: It’s festivals. (0:22:00) Al: It doesn’t particularly feel huge. (0:22:02) Al: I’m intrigued as to why they decided to go for 2.0 at this point. (0:22:06) Al: OK. (0:22:10) Al: It adds a furniture festival, a garden (0:22:12) Al: festival, a pet festival, a mushroom festival, a snow festival. (0:22:16) Al: And a bunch of other (0:22:19) Al: furniture and stuff like that related to that. (0:22:22) Kelly: Okay, interesting how much of the game is actually out? (0:22:26) Al: Well, it’s no longer in early access. (0:22:28) Al: So I feel like I think they might have I feel like they’ve done everything that (0:22:32) Al: they said in the Kickstarter, like it’s the story is done and stuff like that. (0:22:38) Al: When I see people talking in the comments, they’re no longer complaining about things (0:22:43) Al: they’re talking about translations being bad. (0:22:49) Kelly: Yeah, this one’s been on my wish list, (0:22:50) Kelly: so I’ve been just waiting to see. (0:22:54) Al: I think I own it, yes, I do. (0:22:56) Al: I kick-started this one, I just haven’t played it yet. (0:22:59) Al: So this came out initially in 2023. (0:23:03) Al: Or was that, no, that was the 1.0, I think. (0:23:06) Al: Yeah, 2021 is when it first came out. (0:23:08) Al: And this was when I was still well and truly (0:23:11) Al: primarily Switch, but it wasn’t on Switch yet. (0:23:15) Al: And then I got a Steam Deck, (0:23:16) Al: and then suddenly I was very much on the Steam Deck, (0:23:18) Al: except for games that weren’t on the Steam Deck. (0:23:21) Al: but I had kind of really moved the path. (0:23:24) Al: I’m just thinking about this game, because it was, you know, it had been like two years or something since it started. (0:23:32) Al: Sometimes I do think that there is like a time period where if you’re not going to play a game (0:23:36) Al: within that time period, you’re probably never going to get to it. (0:23:38) Kelly: Yeah, no, definitely it definitely gets harder and harder to go back to it (0:23:44) Al: So maybe I’ll get to it one day, who knows, there’s so many games. (0:23:48) Al: Next we have farm folks or, as it is now called, (0:23:54) Al: Autonomica? Good job, going from a game name that was just slightly awkward to say to one that I don’t know how to pronounce. (0:24:02) Al: Autonomica? Auto… Autonomica. (0:24:04) Kelly: Oh, Tom, oh, oh, Tom, I don’t know, I don’t know. (0:24:08) Al: Autonomica. That’s what you were trying to say, wasn’t it? Autonomica. (0:24:13) Kelly: Yeah, yeah, something like that. (0:24:14) Al: No, I don’t think it’s Autonomica. (0:24:18) Kelly: I don’t think it is either, (0:24:19) Kelly: but I was just trying to see if I could say it. (0:24:20) Kelly: And apparently I can’t. (0:24:24) Al: For those who don’t know the story behind this game, it was started as farm folks, and then the company that was making it went bust. (0:24:32) Al: And then another company basically, I don’t know whether they bought the company that went bust or whether they bought the rights to the game and the code and stuff, (0:24:40) Al: but they continued development. So the company that’s making this is not the company that did the Kickstarter for this game. (0:24:46) Al: Although I’m pretty sure I saw somewhere that they are going to honor the Kickstarter, which is always good. (0:24:52) Al: Um, don’t take– (0:24:52) Kelly: nice isn’t there another game with like a similar ish name to this new name but (0:24:54) Al: I’d need to confirm that, but I feel like I saw that somewhere. (0:25:05) Kelly: also like how do you go from farm folks which is like the most generic farm game (0:25:08) Al: Yeah. (0:25:10) Kelly: name I’ve ever heard now which is not saying a lot because a lot of these farm (0:25:14) Kelly: games have a lot of similar names it is but how do you go from that to what do (0:25:16) Al: Naming is hard, all right. (0:25:20) Kelly: What are you calling it? Autonomica? (0:25:22) Kelly: Autonomica. Oh, it’s a musical artist. Yes, I knew I’d seen this name somewhere before. (0:25:24) Al: Autonomica. Autonomica? (0:25:30) Al: Oh. (0:25:36) Al: So they’ve made they have went the new (0:25:38) Al: company that took over the game have basically been moving it in a different direction. (0:25:43) Al: So it’s it is still farming. (0:25:46) Kelly: It looks like Fortnite with Farfian. (0:25:46) Al: It’s not. (0:25:49) Al: Yeah, they’ve never really explained their reasoning, but they’re like, it’s not just farming. (0:25:53) Al: It’s so much more than that. (0:25:55) Al: So therefore we think farm folks is a misleading name and I’m like, OK, but I don’t. (0:25:58) Kelly: Okay. That makes more sense. But I don’t get anything about farming from this name. (0:26:04) Al: No, but you do get the automation part of it, which I think they’re really big enough. (0:26:09) Al: The college so that their new blurb on steam is Autonomica is an open world life simulator (0:26:16) Al: game that seamlessly. Oh, my word, I hate this so much seamlessly merges resource (0:26:22) Al: management and automation with farm building, extensive customization, (0:26:26) Al: PvP slash PvE battles and elusive phantoms. What is this jumble of words? (0:26:34) Al: Play solo or with friends to build your mega farm factory with almost no limits. (0:26:38) Al: It is a farming game. It’s just like a industrial scale farming game. (0:26:44) Al: Right. And I get why they wanted to change. (0:26:48) Al: Why they wanted it to be clear that this was not the same game that they took over. (0:26:52) Al: But also it is farming game. (0:26:57) Al: Like you can’t say it’s not a farming game. It is a farming game. (0:27:01) Al: Build your mega farm factory, they say in the new blurb. (0:27:04) Al: Like I don’t understand the issue with it. (0:27:06) Kelly: All of these screenshots, too, are just like, what is that game? (0:27:09) Al: Yes, Factorio. Yeah. (0:27:11) Kelly: Factorio? (0:27:14) Kelly: It’s like that, but with farming more. (0:27:16) Al: Open world 3D Factorio. (0:27:20) Al: Which I honestly am excited by. I think this game could be really good. (0:27:25) Al: I just don’t understand why they really didn’t like the name and they decided to change. (0:27:29) Al: But I don’t think this is a better name. (0:27:32) Al: That’s all I’m going to say. I get why they didn’t like the old game. (0:27:35) Al: Old name. I’m not sure this is better. (0:27:37) Kelly: Honestly, they can take this if they want to, but I think it should have been (0:27:44) Kelly: auto-pharmica, if anything. (0:27:46) Al: I would, yeah, I would certainly be more better. Yeah, I don’t disagree with you. (0:27:49) Kelly: It would be better than this. (0:27:54) Kelly: I would assume that this is some sort of space or underwater survival game (0:28:02) Al: Oh, interesting. Yeah. Anyway, they changed the name. RIP farm folks. Long live farm folks. (0:28:03) Kelly: just going off the name alone. (0:28:08) Kelly: It’s so weird too, because I don’t even like farm books. (0:28:14) Al: Yeah, yeah. (0:28:18) Kelly: I digress. (0:28:19) Al: Coral Island have announced their 2025 roadmap. They have 1.2 planned to come out in the first (0:28:27) Al: half of the year, bringing multiplayer and revamped romance. (0:28:32) Al: Which I was looking at what they say about the romance. So let’s talk about the multiplayer (0:28:37) Al: first. There’s probably not a huge amount to say. Basically, it looks like it’s stardew (0:28:41) Al: style multiplayer. You’re all multiple people on the farm. Great, fine. I’m sure it will be (0:28:46) Al: great for people who love. I am not particularly interested just because I don’t want to actually (0:28:51) Al: play my games with other people. I like these games because I’m playing them on my own. (0:28:52) Kelly: I have no desire, I have no desire to play these. These types of games are for me to play by myself, so I can be a maniac, like, let me be a psychopath by my- (0:28:59) Al: Exactly. Exactly. (0:29:03) Al: I have tried so many times to play multiplayer Stardew, and I just can’t because I have to be (0:29:08) Kelly: Oh, no. No, no, no. (0:29:10) Al: the one who has this. The problem is, right? You have to organize to play at the same time, (0:29:16) Al: and that is just not fun. Organizing times for these. (0:29:16) Kelly: No, because either you’re micromanaging all of it, too. (0:29:25) Kelly: It’s like, how do you organize the time to play together and also organize how you’re (0:29:30) Kelly: playing together? (0:29:32) Al: Yeah, the best way to do that is just be like, right, you do the farming you do the mine, there you go, go, go do your jobs. (0:29:32) Kelly: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. (0:29:38) Al: And yeah, I don’t, I don’t particularly find it fun, I get why people might. And so if you are excited about Coral Island multiplayer. (0:29:46) Al: There you go, it’s coming. I hope you enjoy it. I’m not going to do this. (0:29:48) Kelly: I think the only multiplayer game I like is Monster Hunter, to be quite honest. (0:29:58) Al: So I was also looking at the romance revamp that they’ve got. (0:30:02) Al: And I think the only difference is, so there’s a bunch of heart events that existed already. (0:30:10) Al: And it looks like you have to see the previous heart events to unlock certain, to unlock (0:30:17) Al: more hearts. (0:30:18) Al: So once you get to five hearts, you have to watch the heart events for them before you (0:30:24) Al: can do heart six to eight. (0:30:26) Al: And then you have to watch another heart event and give a locket. (0:30:32) Al: Before you can start dating and do the next two hearts, which then you have to watch the (0:30:37) Al: other events and propose before you can get married and do the other five. (0:30:43) Al: I do think this is better because what I found when I was doing this, because I got married (0:30:49) Al: in Coral Island, is I had no clue that there were heart events still to do, which is probably (0:30:55) Al: still going to be a problem here, but let’s put that aside for a minute. (0:30:59) Kelly: There’s no like there’s no like heart marker next in like the (0:31:02) Al: So there are hearts, but it’s not like, it’s just like how many hearts you have. (0:31:09) Al: Like there was no like indication that there’s an event you should be doing. (0:31:12) Al: So like I got to 10 hearts and then I went and tried to propose and they were like, oh, (0:31:17) Al: I’m not ready yet. (0:31:18) Al: And I’m like, but this is the point where I meant to be able to propose. (0:31:20) Al: Why can’t I do it? (0:31:22) Al: And I googled and it was like, oh, because you’re missing heart events. (0:31:24) Al: And I hadn’t done any of the heart events. (0:31:27) Al: And I don’t know how it happens in Carta Island, but in Stardew, (0:31:29) Kelly: How– so I was going to say, it’s similarly set up, (0:31:32) Al: I was always finding the heart events. (0:31:37) Kelly: like you just trigger the event when you encounter them (0:31:40) Al: Yes, and there are a few heart events in Stardew that were very niche and you (0:31:41) Kelly: in a certain location. (0:31:46) Al: wouldn’t immediately find, but like by that point, you’re like, oh, (0:31:51) Al: I know that these things are coming, so I should be expecting them. (0:31:53) Al: I hadn’t done a single one in Carta Island. (0:31:56) Al: How had I not triggered any of the heart events? (0:31:59) Kelly: Yeah, that’s crazy. That doesn’t seem like a good sub. (0:32:00) Al: It was very confusing. (0:32:02) Al: And also, I don’t think the heart events are required in Stardew for marriage. (0:32:10) Kelly: I don’t think they are either. I think they’re just, like, for you. (0:32:12) Al: Yes, and you can get extra points by doing them. (0:32:16) Al: And they’re nice, and you want to know about the story because all the characters are good characters. (0:32:16) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:32:22) Al: I was going to say great, but no, not all the characters are great. (0:32:22) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:32:24) Al: All of them are good characters. (0:32:28) Al: Um, but yeah, I just, it was really, so if they have a. (0:32:32) Al: Way to make it clear. (0:32:34) Al: That you’re now expecting to see events, then that would be good. (0:32:38) Al: Um, I don’t know. (0:32:40) Al: Um, we’ll see, I guess they don’t talk about that. (0:32:44) Al: I don’t think, but it’s interesting restricting it that much. (0:32:48) Al: So you, you have to see the events before you can continue your heart progress. (0:32:53) Al: Uh, I don’t know how I feel about that. (0:32:55) Kelly: Yeah, that seems kind of iffy the way you just described your past experience, so I guess we’ll see. (0:33:00) Al: Aha, the revamped romance system unlocks at heart level two and you’ll see a prompt (0:33:05) Al: in the relationship UI whenever a hangout event is available. (0:33:10) Al: That is good. (0:33:11) Al: It’s now making it clear when you can do something and when there’s something to do. (0:33:15) Al: That is good. (0:33:16) Al: And if you click on them inside the menu and it shows like all the stuff that you’ve done (0:33:22) Al: with them, you know, the stuff you’ve learned that they love and stuff like that, and like (0:33:25) Al: there, the birthday and stuff, it says unlock requirement, see hangout event. (0:33:30) Al: I don’t know what happened to three but anyway, whatever. (0:33:37) Al: I think that means for heart two and for heart four. (0:33:41) Al: That’s what I think it’s talking about. (0:33:43) Al: So they are definitely making it much more visible, that aspect of things. (0:33:47) Al: So that is good. (0:33:48) Al: They’re also adding more heart events for after marriage, which is also good because (0:33:52) Al: one of the things I’ve really complained about Carl Island is that your spouse ends up turning (0:33:55) Al: into a hollow husk after you get married. (0:33:58) Kelly: That’s pretty sad. (0:34:01) Al: - It was so sad. (0:34:02) Al: The minute you got married, (0:34:05) Al: they just stand in your house all day doing nothing. (0:34:07) Kelly: Oh no. (0:34:09) Al: It was the worst. (0:34:09) Al: I’ve taken your life (0:34:11) Al: and you are now just an ornament in my house. (0:34:15) Al: It was so sad. (0:34:16) Al: So hopefully that’s improved a lot with this. (0:34:20) Al: And then the 1.3 update will include your kids growing up. (0:34:27) Kelly: that’s cool that’s what I literally just started like wondering if it’s like generational like do (0:34:27) Al: And it is, I wonder how far it will go. (0:34:30) Al: I don’t know. (0:34:36) Al: I would expect not. (0:34:38) Al: I expect it would just be, oh, they grow up to be a teenager and then they stop sort of thing. (0:34:42) Al: That is my expectation. (0:34:44) Kelly: that makes sense because that’s a big that’s that’s a lot doing (0:34:44) Al: I don’t think they’ll go full hog. (0:34:49) Al: Especially as they could actually make it like real-time in-game, right? (0:34:52) Al: For every year, they are a year older. (0:34:54) Al: And so you would actually have to do 18 in-game years. (0:35:00) Al: Before your child is an adult. (0:35:04) Kelly: - Hmm. (0:35:05) Al: So they could just go, I’m sorry, if you’ve played 18 years in this game, you’ve played too much. (0:35:12) Al: But I mean, I don’t know, maybe it will work. (0:35:14) Al: I mean, I do know that some games where you have kids that grow up, (0:35:18) Al: you then die and you become your kid. (0:35:20) Al: They could do something like that. (0:35:22) Kelly: That’s true, that would be cool. (0:35:23) Al: And then you inherit the farm and, you know, 20% of it is taken in tax. (0:35:31) Al: Yeah, so they’ve not got a huge amount of information in the 1.3. (0:35:35) Al: They also said there’s going to be a Merfolk festival. (0:35:39) Al: But they’ve not got any details on how the kids grow up. (0:35:42) Al: But that is coming in the second half of this year. (0:35:44) Al: Have you played, you’ve not played Coral Island? (0:35:46) Kelly: No. I really try to avoid early access. (0:35:47) Al: No. (0:35:50) Al: Well, it’s not early access anymore. (0:35:51) Kelly: Uh, oh, it’s out, out? (0:35:53) Al: Yeah. (0:35:54) Al: The 1.0 came out just over a year ago. (0:35:58) Kelly: Okay, I must have missed that. (0:35:58) Al: and then they go and they go on. (0:36:00) Kelly: I thought it was still in early access, still. Okay. (0:36:00) Al: 1.1 sometime last year? No. The 1.0 was technically not early access, but realistically (0:36:06) Al: was early access. The 1.1 feels like what the 1.0 should have been, but the multiplayer (0:36:12) Al: was always coming after early access. So I don’t feel like you would be missing out if (0:36:17) Al: you played now compared to if you played two years ago, you definitely were missing out (0:36:22) Al: in a lot. (0:36:22) Kelly: Okay, okay, maybe one day (0:36:24) Al: All right. And we also, we all maybe, maybe, probably not. We also have (0:36:30) Al: a new game by the developers of EverDream Valley. In fact, this is a sequel to EverDream (0:36:36) Al: Valley called EverDream Village. I get what they’re doing with that name, but also I am (0:36:42) Al: going to constantly mess up. Which one is which? They also feel the wrong way around, (0:36:47) Kelly: The valley and village is like too close to each other. (0:36:53) Al: you start in a village and then you go out to a valley. (0:36:53) Kelly: Yes, it should have been, this should be a prequel. (0:36:57) Kelly: Yeah, this is the prequel in my, (0:36:59) Kelly: I literally thought like this should be the prequel (0:37:00) Al: Set 10 years after the events of EverDream Valley, EverDream Village brings a whole (0:37:07) Al: new chapter with living, breathing village and a world beyond your farm. Now you’re built, (0:37:13) Al: this is the thing. It’s like the problem was EverDream Valley wasn’t really a valley. It (0:37:17) Al: was EverDream Farm. Right. And if it was that way, it was EverDream Farm and then EverDream (0:37:21) Al: Village. That makes more logical sense to be our expansion on that. Right. You’ll build (0:37:22) Kelly: Mm-hmm. (0:37:28) Al: relationships explore mysterious islands. (0:37:30) Al: The Valley may have been home but it’s time to explore a world full of new adventures, (0:37:44) Kelly: - Yeah, it doesn’t seem right, there’s something off. (0:37:57) Al: NPCs and endless possibilities. I don’t really get whirled and (0:38:00) Al: abilities from village. I know what they mean. I know what they (0:38:02) Kelly: - No, but I think they just mean the world of Everdream. (0:38:08) Al: mean. I know what they mean. Build your ideal cozy farm in a (0:38:12) Al: living village. Form bonds with fellow villagers to lend a hand (0:38:16) Al: as you grow crops, care for animals and craft a corner of (0:38:18) Al: paradise. Sail across enchanted islands to discover new resources (0:38:22) Al: and adventures along the way. Maybe it’s definitely not a (0:38:25) Kelly: Maybe there is a world. (0:38:28) Al: village. (0:38:31) Al: Anyway, I mean, you can ride a pig in Evergreen Valley, so they hopefully have something like that in this game. (0:38:36) Kelly: I’m looking at that right now. (0:38:38) Kelly: That actually looks really cute. (0:38:39) Kelly: That’s a good feature. (0:38:40) Al: I haven’t played this game. It’s been on my list for forever. (0:38:44) Kelly: The first one. (0:38:45) Al: Yes, well, the second one is now yet, so of course I’ve not played that. (0:38:48) Kelly: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. (0:38:50) Al: It’s just coming soon. They’ve not said when, it’s coming just soon. (0:38:54) Kelly: One day. (0:38:54) Al: One day. All right. (0:38:56) Kelly: Do you see this tag at the bottom on their news updates? (0:39:00) Al: The second one is that in the Evergreen Valley page? (0:39:04) Kelly: On the Steam page, yeah. (0:39:07) Al: Where am I looking? Where am I looking? (0:39:07) Kelly: I guess this is who they base the pig off of. (0:39:11) Kelly: Let me send it to you. (0:39:12) Kelly: I’ll just send it to you. (0:39:12) Al: There’s too many pages here. That’s the problem. (0:39:13) Kelly: I would do that. (0:39:15) Kelly: It really is. (0:39:15) Al: On their news. Oh, happy birthday, Peter Curleytail. (0:39:18) Kelly: Recent events, yes. (0:39:20) Al: I don’t know what to say. That is quite a pig. (0:39:24) Kelly: He’s a little frightening, but kind of cute. (0:39:26) Al: Yes, that is quite the pig. (0:39:29) Kelly: But I like the interpretation of him. (0:39:31) Al: Yeah, I like the name Peter Curleytail. (0:39:35) Kelly: Yeah, I. (0:39:36) Kelly: I’ve never seen a pig like that before, so it’s a little haunting. (0:39:42) Al: All right, that’s us done with the news. (0:39:44) Al: We are now going to talk about grimoire, grimoire. Is it grimoire? (0:39:51) Al: Grimoire. Grimoire grows. And grimoire is something that’s a witch term, isn’t it? (0:39:59) Al: like what it what I keep hearing great (0:40:00) Kelly: Yeah it’s always like I feel like it’s like swamps and grimoires and uh no it’s um what (0:40:00) Al: memoirs and lots of these witchy games. (0:40:08) Al: That explains that because, right, okay. (0:40:10) Kelly: is it a grimoire is a the book it’s the book it’s like your book of spells that’s what it is. (0:40:17) Al: And the grove is the land that you’re doing (0:40:22) Al: because a grove is like a kind of forest type thing. (0:40:26) Kelly: Yeah, yeah. But no, it’s a little book that you… (0:40:28) Al: Okay, makes sense. (0:40:30) Kelly: have all your information in. (0:40:33) Al: So, a quick introduction to this game. (0:40:38) Al: It is described on Steam as join the witches in their quest to restore the grimoire groves, (0:40:45) Al: master magic, grow cute plant creatures, and discover the mystery of the rainbow socks (0:40:52) Al: in this cozy roguelite dungeon crawler. (0:40:55) Al: The way I would describe this in my whole one hour and 20 minutes playing it (0:40:59) Al: is it is kind of cult of the lamb, but without actual, without. (0:41:09) Al: Combat the way you interact in your runs is different. (0:41:13) Al: It’s not combat so much. (0:41:16) Al: And it’s less about building a village and more about restoring nature. (0:41:24) Al: Would that be a fair way of putting it? (0:41:26) Kelly: Yeah, I think so. It’s, it’s, it’s… (0:41:29) Kelly: But you still, I feel like I’m fighting. (0:41:31) Kelly: Maybe I feel less like I’m fighting and I’m more surviving. (0:41:31) Al: Yes, okay, so I mean, okay, you could make an argument that it is basically just fighting, (0:41:39) Al: but it’s it feels so you’re feeding the plants instead of fighting them, I think is how they (0:41:44) Kelly: Yeah, yeah, but no, I’m just I’m just being a jerk. I think it’s I think that’s a good. (0:41:44) Al: describe it. So that’s why I’ve been like is not. No, no, it’s, it’s, it’s fair in terms (0:41:50) Al: of game play is very similar to most other Roguelike action games. (0:41:51) Kelly: Yes, I also think it it has that. Yeah, yeah, it has that cuteness that I think (0:41:59) Kelly: cultural land kind of has, which is why I think like they remind me like like you said like it (0:42:04) Kelly: makes you think of them. You have the juxtaposition. Yeah, yeah. (0:42:06) Al: I think the cuteness works much better in Cult of the Lam (0:42:09) Al: because it’s… exactly, exactly. (0:42:12) Al: Whereas here, the whole world is cute. (0:42:14) Kelly: But I love the saturation in this game. So like that for me is like, and I loved Call to the Land. (0:42:21) Al: Okay, I will say the game looks lovely. (0:42:24) Al: It looks really nice. (0:42:25) Al: I do love how the game actually looks. (0:42:28) Al: The graphics, the design of the characters, (0:42:36) Al: and character, but also the plants and everything. (0:42:38) Al: I do like all of that. (0:42:39) Al: That is all nice. (0:42:41) Al: I will absolutely agree with that. (0:42:44) Al: Yes. (0:42:46) Kelly: I just think it’s like you don’t always, you don’t really get a lot of games that are like, (0:42:52) Kelly: it’s like saturated, but it’s also pastel, like there’s two different kind of colored (0:42:56) Kelly: tones going on in the game, which I think is interesting. (0:43:00) Kelly: Like the backgrounds are more saturated, but the creatures, the plants are a little more (0:43:04) Kelly: pastel leaning, but it’s so vibrant. (0:43:07) Kelly: Like a lot of games, they’re so dark a lot of the time or like aiming to be more realistic (0:43:11) Al: - Yeah. (0:43:13) Kelly: in their tones, I guess. (0:43:15) Al: Yeah, yeah, yeah. (0:43:16) Kelly: Yes, but yeah, no, I love all of the designs. (0:43:17) Al: No, you’re definitely right about that. (0:43:20) Al: You wouldn’t look at this and think it was something else. (0:43:20) Kelly: I love all the little plants. (0:43:23) Al: That’s very true. (0:43:23) Kelly: No, exactly. (0:43:26) Al: So I guess there’s two main parts to this game, (0:43:29) Al: and there’s obviously a lot of other things, (0:43:31) Al: lot of things that I won’t have done in the main area. (0:43:33) Al: But like most of these roguelites, (0:43:37) Al: you have your hub, (0:43:38) Al: which is an area that is run– (0:43:41) Al: was previously run by some other witch– (0:43:44) Al: I can’t remember her name, maybe– (0:43:45) Kelly: Is it lavender? (0:43:47) Kelly: I think so. (0:43:49) Al: and it’s been taken over by thorns, (0:43:53) Al: and it’s all dreary, and you are to restore it. (0:43:57) Al: That’s the main idea. (0:43:58) Kelly: You’re the young spry witch coming in to fix it. (0:43:59) Al: And you do that by classic cliche, (0:44:05) Al: but it’s there for a reason. (0:44:08) Al: and your runs that you do. (0:44:11) Al: I think of roguelites specifically talking about roguelites not roguelikes (0:44:22) Al: well let’s not have that debate again. I find there are two types there are ones where (0:44:31) Al: your hub the point of the hub is to improve your powers skills etc to then do the runs and the (0:44:38) Kelly: Mm-hmm. Yes, I was going to say, very– (0:44:41) Al: runs is the purpose of the game and that would be your like Hades stuff like that. (0:44:49) Al: And then there’s this type of thing this and Cult of the Lamb where your hub is the point of (0:44:55) Al: the game and the runs are to gather resources for doing things in your hub. (0:45:00) Kelly: I would say it’s kind of like a mix, I think, between Cult of the Lamb and Hades in that aspect. (0:45:07) Kelly: Because I do think Cult of the Lamb, there’s so much that you do in your hub area. (0:45:12) Kelly: And I don’t think this quite has near that amount of stuff. (0:45:16) Kelly: Like, you have a lot of updates and things you can interact with. (0:45:20) Kelly: I don’t want to spoil anything. (0:45:22) Kelly: But Cult of the Lamb, you could like run the village until you ran out of resources. (0:45:28) Al: I guess my point is like you’re not the run isn’t the like with Hades you are escaping hell (0:45:28) Kelly: like I spent like five minutes like you know up (0:45:31) Kelly: and then I got another run (0:45:37) Kelly: the sole purpose yes (0:45:40) Al: and your run is escaping hell and if you fail you go back to the hub world and you try again. (0:45:45) Al: Whereas in this and with Cult of the Lamb the point is the runs you’re doing to do (0:45:50) Al: things to bring back you’re never like disappearing and I think that’s that is very much (0:45:53) Kelly: No, that’s a fair point, yeah. (0:45:58) Al: why I liked Cult of the Lamb because I was building up this thing and I really hate the (0:46:05) Al: overall feeling of Hades where if you fail you fail and you’re back to the start and you have (0:46:09) Al: to start again and so I was really excited for this because I was like oh maybe this will be (0:46:15) Al: another one that I like because it’s that sort of style but I mean I guess I need to say at some (0:46:21) Al: point I didn’t like the combat in this game. I didn’t but I feel like (0:46:24) Kelly: Did you try it on easy mode? (0:46:27) Kelly: I d

Helping people admit what they feel in order to heal from the effects of narcissism from a Biblical and Psychological perspective. Website: www.NarcAbuseNoMore.org Email: NarcAbuseNoMore@mail.com Donate via PayPal: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=F37STVQCNJ9D8 CASH APP - $evangelistklrch1975 IT Iz FINISHED End Times' Ministries Website: www.ITIzFINISHED.com IT Iz FINISHED Email: ITIzFINISHED@mail.com Watch on YouTube at: https://www.youtube.com/@NarcAbuseNoMore Watch on Rumble… https://rumble.com/c/c-1334751 Watch on Brighteon…  www.brighteon.com/channels/narcissisticabusenomore Telegram: https://t.me/itizfinished  Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/narcissistic-abuse-no-more--2855898/support.

Sonya Kelly - One Night in Millstreet - TV Reviews - Marlon Brando Centenary

Sonya Kelly - One Night in Millstreet - TV Reviews - Marlon Brando Centenary

In today's episode of The Mentors Radio, Host Tom Loarie talks with Matthew Kelly, one of the greatest thought leaders of our time, an international speaker and a prolific author of more than 45 books—with more than 50 million copies sold, appearing on New York Times, Wall Street Journal and USA Today best-seller lists. In this rare interview with Matthew, Tom explores Kelly's remarkable journey from Sydney, Australia, to becoming a global inspiration. In his early-twenties Kelly developed "the-best-version-of-yourself" concept and has been sharing it in every arena of life for more than 25 years. Don't miss this chance for hard-earned insights and wisdom as Tom and Matthew dive into topics such as 'Life is Messy,' 'Resisting Happiness,' 'Courage,' 'Facing Fears' and more.' His love of baseball, and why, life lessons and so much more... Listen to episode below, or on ANY PODCAST PLATFORM here. BE SURE TO LEAVE US A GREAT REVIEW on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and share with friends and colleagues! SHOW NOTES: MATTHEW KELLY: BIO: https://www.matthewkelly.com/about WEBSITES: MatthewKelly.com Floyd Consulting Dynamic Catholic BOOKS (partial list): Life is Messy, by Matthew Kelly Resisting Happiness: A True Story on How We Sabatoge Ourselves, by Matthew Kelly The Book of Courage, by Matthew Kelly The Dream Manager, by Matthew Kelly The Rocking Chair Prophet, by Matthew Kelly (Kelly's first novel)

Jiu Jitsu phenom Danielle Kelly drops by Thicccboy studios to chat with Brendan Schaub ahead of her grappling match with Jessa Kahn in ONE Championship. They discuss how Danielle's experience with bullying as a young girl motivated her to learn to martial arts. And how she is prepared for, but not intimidated by her opponent. https://amazon.com/ofn14

In this episode, we sit down with renowned automotive photographer Tim Wallace to discuss the technical and creative aspects of commercial photography. As an expert in automotive photography with decades of experience, Tim shares his insights on understanding client needs, tailoring your approach to meet their objectives, and delivering work that exceeds expectations.We delve into the technical aspects of photography, including lighting, composition, and post-processing techniques. Tim also emphasizes the importance of developing a unique creative vision that sets you apart in a competitive industry.Whether you're a seasoned pro or just starting in commercial photography, this episode offers valuable tips and advice on how to succeed in this field. From client management to communication, Tim shares his expertise on every aspect of running a successful photography business. Join us for an engaging conversation with one of the industry's most respected professionals in automotive photography, and learn how to elevate your technical skills and creative vision to deliver outstanding work that meets your clients' needs. THIS WEEK'S LINKS:Check out our sponsor: www.dvestore.comJOIN THE CAMERA SHAKE COMMUNITY for the latest news and some behind the scenes insights:  https://camerashakepodcast.comINTERESTED IN THE LOFOTEN VIKING PHOTOGRAPHY WORKSHOP?https://www.idavewilliams.com/trainingTim Wallace on the web:https://www.ambientlife.co.ukTim Wallace on Social Media:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/timwallace47/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tim.wallace.942Twitter: https://twitter.com/Ambient_lifeFind Tim's class on Kelly One here:https://members.kelbyone.com/author/twallace/JOIN THE CAMERA SHAKE COMMUNITY for the latest news and some behind the scenes insights:  www.camerashakepodcast.com======================================CAMERA SHAKE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE:https://www.youtube.com/camerashakeFULL EPISODE 153 IS ALSO AVAILABLE ON: YouTube - https://youtu.be/Yqq2WPgXIyIApple Podcasts - https://apple.co/2Y2LmfmSpotify - https://spoti.fi/304sm2G======================================FOLLOW US ONInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/camerashakepodcast/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camerashakepodcastTwitter: https://twitter.com/ShakeCameraKersten's website:www.kerstenluts.comKersten on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/kerstenluts/https://www.instagram.com/threeheadsinarow/

The Officer Tatum Show is now available on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, and SalemPodcastNetwork.com.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Griffin Kelly portrayed the character of Jay Jay, Ingrid's model/assistant with a face for all occasions, in Indieknot Films' Spotlight Underground: CORPSE PHOTOGRAPHER. Link to video below. Griffin is an actor in the wild world of comedy in LA. She performs in tv/film as well as on stage and pursues to follow wherever comedy takes her. Her quick witted humor brings laughs everywhere she goes. Tune in to hear about her most recent project, a one person act where she embodies two cats on their first date. Need I say more? Griffin's Tiktok: @tattyscones Griffin's Instagram: @finkellygrif https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa-q514PHG0&t=1s

Sebastian talks to Julie Kelly about the current status of the January 6 Committee and Bill Barr being the wrong choice for President Trump's Attorney General.Support the show: https://www.sebgorka.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Arizona Diamondbacks just may have one of the best starting pitching combos in MLB with Zac Gallen and Merrill Kelly while also remaining committed to giving their rookies more playing time than any other team in baseball. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When conversations around the water cooler center around legendary stock car drivers from Michigan's Upper Peninsula Mike Kelly is most certainly among those wheelmen who get talked about. We caught up with number 77 this summer at Wisconsin International Raceway in Kaukauna. Mike talks about how he got his start, beating Dick Trickle in Norway Speedway's Stateline Challenge, racing with his boys and much more. Listen in!

Listen as Kelly and I discuss self-advocacy, privilege, ungodly hemorrhage, & second opinions. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/myuterus/message

Welcome to our second podcast episode of 2021 and the first after an attempted coup! I'm mentioning that so if you think "Hey, they seem a little rattled," you'll know why. Today, in a departure from our usual format, we're discussing books we aren't reading. One of us slightly misunderstood the assignment and ended up with a bunch MORE books on her TBR list instead of fewer.  (NOTE: This doesn't mean that anyone who likes these books or genres is wrong to do so. This is just our respective opinions and, as you'll see, we don't agree on all of them, either.)Also, good news! We came up with a nickname for you, our listeners. Feel free to weigh in or propose a new name for yourselves. (Just kidding Should Heads! It's too late.) Want to read some amazing books before most people can? Sign up for Book of the Month and use our promo code WHATYOUSHOULDREAD at checkout to get your first box for just $9.99. Check out their January selections: https://www.bookofthemonth.com/the-best-new-books  Book news: Josh Hawley Loses His Book Deal https://www.teenvogue.com/story/josh-hawley-lost-book-deal-isnt-orwellian-op-ed Bachelor Nation reading challenge:  https://www.instagram.com/p/CJl3uDVJmuc/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link  Currently reading: Julia: Roman and Jewel (Dana L. Davis)Kelly: When You Look Like Us (Pamela N. Harris), just finished Happily Ever Afters (Elise Bryant)Rachael: The Midnight Library (Matt Haig) and Serpent & Dove (Shelby Mahurin) You Know What You Should Read? (each fits a Bachelor Nation prompt)Julia: Last Chance Saloon by Marian Keyes ("I'm Not Here to Make Friends")Kelly: One of the Good Ones by Maika Moulite and Maritza Moulite (Tayshia Adams) Rachael: Beyond the Point by Claire Gibson (First Impression Rose) You Know What We Won't Read?We first heard of this prompt from Nicole and Her Books https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfatiovNuLoBTjojCncpKvQ  Julia: The Unbearable Lightness of Being (Milan Kundera), A Clockwork Orange (Anthony Burgess), Elin Hilderbrand, southern gothic/horror/comic books, Middlegame, Elena Ferrante, Midnight Sun (Stephenie Meyer)Kelly: Anxious People (Fredrik Backman), James Baldwin, Kathleen Hale, JK Rowling's Cormoran Strike novels, Kinsey and Me and Y Is For Yesterday (Sue Grafton)Rachael: Normal People (Sally Rooney), The Catcher in the Rye (JD Salinger), Elin Hilderbrand, Cassandra Clare, deep space sci-fi, The Secret History (Donna Tartt), Sarah J. Maas and The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes (Suzanne Collins) Follow What You Should Read:Twitter:    @wysr_podcastInstagram:    @wysr_podcastGoodreads:    https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/115539912-what-you-should-read-podcastYouTube:    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCfNtid_b0R14otSPRZTkmQwww.whatyoushouldread.comDon't forget about our next book club! We're discussing Silver Sparrow by Tayari Jones on February 9! You can email your thoughts or find us on social media! We're really excited for this one--and its special guest! 

Shpeel with Kelly, its all the other stuff I didnt get to say, or things I wanted to say and it didnt seem to fit anywhere else. This first shpeel is about meditation, upcoming work with Kelly ideas, and a few other bits and bobs. How can you help? Share it, let people know The Dosha Life podcast exists...comment, rate, download, review. Or yanno what? maybe just listen and let me know if you like it xTake The Dosha Life quiz and see what is dominant for you today! click here!  www.yogaayurvedaliving.com                                        www.instagram.com/thedoshalife/CREDITS: Great thanks and kudos to Leah Wilmot on all things creative for The Dosha Life including the creation of my beautiful logo and the sweet caricatures for Instagram and FB. Thank you thank you thank you. For the final edits and future graphic art work go with thanks and hugs to Laura Lowry. Further details of either of these great young women contact me. xA whole lot of gratitude to the Cafe Creek Band and their royalty free "Happy Song". Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thedoshalife)

Helping people admit what they feel in order to heal from the effects of narcissism from a Biblical and Psychological perspective. Website: www.NarcAbuseNoMore.org Email: NarcAbuseNoMore@mail.com Donate at: www.NarcissisticAbuseNoMore.com or CASH APP - $evangelistklrch1975Watch/Listen at: https://www.brighteon.comIT Iz FINISHED End Times’ Ministries Website: www.ITIzFINISHED.com IT Iz FINISHED Email: ITIzFINISHED@mail.comAmazon’s Author Page: https://www.amazon.com/K-L-Rich/e/B00JNC6KMS?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1574800470&sr=8-1

Kelly has a degree in broadcasting and has been filming wedding videos for about three years. This last year, she has focused more on her wedding video production as a serious business. She has heard she needs to diversify her revenue streams as a videographer to create more income. We talk through her processes and dissect what her own needs are for running a successful wedding business.

The "Tim Graham Show," newly sponsored by Chiampou Travis Besaw & Kershner, welcomed former Bills offensive lineman and Indianapolis radio host Joe Staysniak to discuss Andrew Luck's retirement and Chad Kelly's soaring Colts stock. Matthew Fairburn of The Athletic was in studio for the entire show to talk Bills, and co-host Jonah Bronstein brought the UB football knowledge. Bobby Rosati once again was the MVP.

Crochet critters, punch needle projects, finished sweaters, and listener questions are the topics for this episode. Full notes with photos and links can be found in the podcast section of our shop website: TwoEwesFiberAdventures.com.  Join the community on Ravelry,  or email us with your thoughts at twoewes@twoewesfiberadventures.com Marsha’s Projects Finished Lace Market T-shirt by Marie Green using Schoppel-Wolle El Linio. The neck is too big. I intentionally didn’t weave in ends because I thought this might be an issue. I'll reknit the neckline with smaller needles, picking up fewer stitches, and doing a slightly less loose bind off. I finished first sock using Schoppel-Wolle Das Paar. Cast on for second and knit about 3 inches. I cast on for a summer weight sweater, Fine Sand by (of course) Heidi Kirrmeier. The yarn is Fibra Natura Unity. The yoke and about 7” of body are finished. Nice yarn with some thick and thin sections that give it character.  Kelly’s Projects My Assam Cardigan is finished and I didn’t run out of yarn! The seaming I used was mattress stitch and a variation of duplicate stitch since it was knit sideways. Pull the mattress stitch tight, but make sure the duplicate stitch has your seaming stitches the same size as your knit stitches so it shouldn't be pulled tight. The Knot Along practice punch needle project is finished. I learned a lot. I used handspun rug yarn leftovers and it’s a good example of different colors with the same value not really having enough contrast for color work. If you look at the piece in a black and white photo you can see that the colors don't have enough contrast in value. I have several crochet projects finished! Beeyanka Honey pattern was put on my radar by a listener and I snapped it right up and made it during a camping trip. I also finished 8 Mother Bears (2 were knit, 6 orcheted).   Actively in progress I have a crocheted tarantula for my nephew, the Koru Cardigan, and I’m getting ready to start a miniature punch needle project with a different kind of punch needle than the Oxford Punch Needle brand. I’ll be using crewel weight yarn. It’s a kit.  Listener Questions Fiddlewitch (Joanna) asked about “how to get more out of ravelry and tricks on using the site." She also wanted "leads on who else is doing wonderful work out there. Who are your (who are our) favorite unsung designers? " Kelly: One of my favorite Ravelry features is the advanced search. You can do an advanced search on almost anything--forum posts, projects, your own stash, patterns.  Just look for a link saying advanced search.  For example, recently I’ve been using the advanced search to find patterns from lesser known designers, particularly designers of color. First I favorited some bundles that were created by others: Solidarity Swap Designers, POC Designers to Lift Up. Then I go to patterns and select “ pattern browser and advanced search.” Once there, the category My Notebook on the side has “favorite bundles” as one of the filters. I also like to use gauge as a filter in order to find a pattern that matches my swatch, rather than trying to make my swatch match a particular pattern. Finding bundles to favorite in the first place is a little trickier. You can find bundles on a group’s main page or in an individual’s favorites. Ravelry VP of Operations MaryHeatherB has a great set of bundles on her favorites page. Once you favorite/heart a bundle, you can use it as a search filter.  To support makers who are people of color, you can also follow @bipocinfiber and @bipocmakers on Instagram. Also @ladydyeyarns on Instagram has been posting independent dyers and other makers of color and who are not always as well known..  Seine1 (Kathleen) asked "I’d like to hear about some of the Rav groups you belong to." Kelly: I belong to a lot of Ravelry Groups and you can see them all by looking at the side of my profile page. On the forum page of Ravelry you can organize your forums by clicking on the wrench on the upper right of the forums page. This allows you to adjust all kinds of settings to customize your forums page. In my forums I have the ones I’m most active in on the first tab, then I’ve divided the others into podcast groups, groups for techniques and topics, and the Ravelry main boards. Events Save the Date for a Seabrook, WA Meetup at String Theory Yarn and Fiber, September 20-22. Find lodging for the weekend at Seabrook or in nearby Pacific Beach or Ocean Shores. Or join us for a day if you are nearby!

One of the strongest evidences for the truth of the resurrection of Jesus is the martyrdom of his apostles in the decades that followed his death---or at least that's what many Christian apologists have claimed. But is this claim sustainable on the basis of historical evidence? Did nearly all of the first followers of Jesus really give their lives rather than turn away from what they professed and proclaimed? The answer to this question is complicated, but it's crucial for every Christian to know the facts. In the first half of today's program, Garrick Bailey and Timothy Paul Jones explore this difficult question with Sean McDowell---apologist, professor, and author of the book The Fate of the Apostles. In the second half, Garrick and Timothy go searching for divine truth in the classic hit from Kansas "Dust in the Wind." Along the way, Garrick and Timothy talk about the book of Ecclesiastes, the best and the worst high school graduation songs ever, and how Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure introduced Garrick to Kansas and Socrates. As always, your intrepid hosts dare to plunge a fist into the Infinity Gauntlet to draw forth one of humanity's most perplexing dilemmas; this week's challenge forces Obi-Wan Kenobi to face Albus Dumbledore in a duel that only one white-bearded warrior can survive. The battle also reveals a shocking gap in Sean McDowell's knowledge that could irreparably undermine his geek credibility. Subscribe to Three Chords and the Truth: The Apologetics Podcast: Apple / Android / RSS. In this Episode Sean McDowell, Ph.D., is associate professor in the Christian apologetics program at Biola University and the resident scholar for Summit California. He earned his doctorate in apologetics from The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Dr. McDowell is the author, co-author, or editor of many books including So The Next Generation Will Know (David C. Cook, 2019); Sharing the Good News with Mormons (Harvest House, 2018); and, Evidence that Demands a Verdict (Harper Collins, 2017). Follow Dr. McDowell on Twitter at @Sean_McDowell Questions to Discuss about the Fate of the Apostles 1. What was the fate of the apostles? 2. What are some stories related to the deaths of the apostles that Christians might sometimes believe without adequate evidence? 3. Why does it matter that some people who walked and talked with Jesus may have died for their faith in him? Links to Click If you’re interested in learning more about how to engage people who are skeptical about the truth of the Bible, one great place to start is Truth in a Culture of Doubt by Josh Chatraw and Darrell Bock. To learn more about this book, visit http://www.bhacademic.com B and H Academic The Fate of the Apostles: book by Sean McDowell So The Next Generation Will Know: book by Sean McDowell and J. Warner Wallace Moral Letters (101:14): epistle by Seneca the Younger To Marcia on Consolation (20:3): composition by Seneca the Younger Martyrdom of Polycarp (8—9): epistle from the church in Smyrna “Summer of ‘69”: song by Bryan Adams "Unwritten": song by Natasha Bedingfield "I Hope You Dance": song by Lee Ann Womack "Right Now": song by Van Halen "Firework": song by Katy Perry "Photograph": song by Nickelback "What's This Life For": song by Creed "Good Riddance": song by Green Day "My Last Semester": song by The Wonder Years "Friends": song by Michael W. Smith "Dust in the Wind": song by Kansas "Sweet Child O' Mine": song by Guns N' Roses "Carry On Wayward Son": song by Kansas “I Believe I Can Fly”: song by R. Kelly “One”: song by U2 "Vinyl Confessions": album by Kansas Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure: movie from 1989 “The Search for the Shining Face”: exposition of Ecclesiastes 7 by Timothy Paul Jones ThreeChordsApologetics.com If you are interested in earning a master’s degree online or on campus that will equip you with the most comprehensive apologetics training available anywhere, go to http://www.sbts.edu/bgs/degree-programs/mdiv/apologetics/ How to Make Three Chords and the Truth More Amazing than It Already Is Support the show and spread the word! Here are a few ways to do that: 1. Subscribe to Three Chords and the Truth: The Apologetics Podcast: Apple / Android / RSS. 2. Leave a rating and review on iTunes to encourage other people to listen to the show. 3. If you purchase any of the books mentioned in Three Chords and the Truth, consider using the Amazon links provided in the show notes. The show will receive a small percentage of each sale. 4. 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Helping people admit what they feel in order to heal from the effects of narcissism from a Biblical and Psychological perspective. Website: www.NarcAbuseNoMore.org Email: NarcAbuseNoMore@mail.com Donate at: www.NarcissisticAbuseNoMore.com Watch/Listen at: https://www.brighteon.com IT Iz FINISHED End Times’ Ministries Website: www.ITIzFINISHED.com IT Iz FINISHED Email: ITIzFINISHED@mail.com

OC72-Matt, One of 8 Kids, An Alcoholic Father, Recovery and Cultivating Inner Peace

Homily Epiphany of the Lord. Year C - Sunday, 6 January 2019 First Reading: Isaiah 60:1-6 Psalm: Ps 71:1-2. 7-8. 10-13 Second Reading: Ephesians 3:2-3. 5-6 Gospel Acclamation: Matthew 2:2 Gospel: Matthew 2:1-12 Photo by Vaida Tamošauskaitė on Unsplash References: Fr Paul W. Kelly *One commentary –“365 Days with the Lord” asks rather relevantly. From Gustavo Gutierezz, Sharing the word through the Liturgical year. © Godfrey Rust, godfrey@wordsout.co.uk. See here for details of permissions for use. © Godfrey Rust, www.wordsout +++++ References: Fr Paul W. Kelly +++ Archive of homilies and reflections: http://homilycatholic.blogspot.com.au To contact Fr. Paul: paulwkelly68@gmail.com To listen to my weekly homily audio podcast, please click this link here. Please note - It is often a week or so Ahead: https://soundcloud.com/user-633212303/tracks You are welcome to subscribe to Fr Paul’s homily mail-out by sending an email to this address: paulkellyreflections+subscribe@googlegroups.com Further information relating to the audio productions linked to this Blog: “Faith, Hope and Love, A time of Christian worship and reflection” - Led by Rev Paul W. Kelly Texts used in this programme are for the purposes of worship and prayer for listeners wherever you are. Prayers and chants are taken from the English Translation of the Roman Missal, edition three, © 2010, The International commission on English in the liturgy. Scriptures are from the New Revised Standard Version: © 1989, by the national council of Churches of Christ, USA. , //adaptations to conform with Catholic liturgical norms, © 2009, by the same. Psalm verses are taken from “The Psalms: the Grail Translation. Inclusive Language Version.” ©1963, 1995, 2004 The Grail (England), published by HarperCollins. London. Prayers of the Faithful are adapted from Robert Borg’s 1993 book “Together we pray”. Published in Sydney Australia By E.J. Dwyer. (out of print). { “Mass In Honour of St. Ralph Sherwin” -published 2011, Composed and Sung by Jeffrey M. Ostrowski Featuring the….Gloria. COPYRIGHT @ 2018 CORPUS CHRISTI WATERSHED. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. www.ccwatershed.org/vatican/Ralph_Sherwin_Videos/ Editorial Matter describing feast days and Sundays: © 2018 Liturgy Brisbane. Photo by Vaida Tamošauskaitė on Unsplash “Faith, Hope and Love” theme Hymn: Words, based on 1 Corinthians 13:1-13, set to original music © 1996 by Paul W. Kelly. Christian Pics Licensed Photographs. Images Used in accordance with Licence. All Rights Reserved by the Licensor. https://christianpics.co/ Freely Photos website. All photos published on Freely Photos have been gathered as licensed under Creative Commons Zero, or equivalent. Images Used in accordance with Licence. All Rights Reserved by the Licensor. https://beta.freelyphotos.com/ For more details please visit http://homilycatholic.blogspot.com.au/ Contact us at paulwkelly68@gmail.com Production by Kelly Enterprises Resources. May God bless and keep you.

In this Episode Caroline and Kelly talk all about discounts-Should you or should you not give them and if so, what types of discounts should you offer? Caroline and Kelly share their ways of how they use discounts, what types of discount codes they use and who they offer them to! Percentage discounts Caroline and Kelly talk about the different types of percentage discounts they give to their customers!  Etsy shop owners, this can be set up automatically for your customers!  Caroline and Kelly talk about the all the ways they offer discount codes for repeat buyers, new orders, holidays, anniversaries and through newsletters! What's better??? Free Shipping or discounts?? Find out what Kelly has learned about free shipping and why it may be better than offering a discount!  I mean, who doesn’t love free shipping! I think when you offer discounts too much it devalues your product -Caroline For small businesses it is not a good strategy -Caroline Make it a treat, make it special -Kelly Just be careful on how you are using them and how your customers perceive them. Advantages for using them So what are the advantages of using them?  Think about ways how you can use it to upsell or increase your cart!  Maybe if they buy a certain amount of a product, they get something for free??  You need to do what works for you!  Find out how Caroline and Kelly take advantage of using discount codes! Giveaways:  Caroline and Kelly talk all about whether or not you should be doing giveaways.  Giving away a product for free gets people to your shop, but most importantly,  you must keep it brand related.  Ever try loop giveaways??!  Maybe now is the time!  Just make sure it all ties in with brand, vision and mission of your company.  Find out what big giveaways/discounts Kelly and Caroline plan on doing this November! Giveaways can be really fun -Kelly One of Kelly’s Favorite Podcast: Sean McCabe Exclusives Something special for those certain lines of people that follow you to get them more involved in your company. Holiday Giveaways What types of discounts are you going to do for your biz?!  Caroline and Kelly talk about what they plan on doing for their holiday giveaways for their shop! People love free!  Think about your discounts and how to use them effectively!  Try some new things!   Follow us on instagram (Creative Biz Rebellions) and interact with us for a shop shout out!!! If you have a second please jump over to iTunes and leave us a review!     You can find Kelly online at: www.helloworldpaperco.comwww.kellyparkersmith.com www.helloworldstamps.etsy.comwww.helloworldpaperco.etsy.com You can find Caroline online at: www.carolinecreates.comwww.carolineannhull.com www.carolinecreates.etsy.com

Introduction: Kelly Coughlin is CEO of BankBosun, a management consulting firm helping bank C-Level Officers navigate risk and discover reward. He is the host of the syndicated audio podcast, BankBosun.com. Kelly brings over 25 years of experience with companies like PWC, Lloyds Bank, and Merrill Lynch. On the podcast Kelly interviews key executives in the banking ecosystem to provide bank C-Suite officers, risk management, technology, and investment ideas and solutions to help them navigate risks and discover rewards.   And now your host, Kelly Coughlin.   Kelly: Good morning. This is Kelly Coughlin. I've got David Shoemaker on the line. We’re going to do a podcast with David. He's the President of Equias Alliance.   David: Good morning.   Kelly: Good morning David. How you doing?   David: I am well.   Kelly: Just to kind of lay the foundation here I thought we’d talk very briefly about my relationship with David and Equias. As David knows, I'm a CPA. I've been in the investment and banking ecosystem for many years and as part of a consulting gig about a year and a half ago I came across the BOLI industry, the bank owned life insurance industry, and then Equias Alliance. I decided at that time, after looking at this asset class, that this is a space I wanted to get into. And I looked at the competitors, once I decided I liked the product, and decided who are the competitors, Equias, in my mind, rose above everybody else out there.     It wasn’t just me that thought that. I believe American Bankers Association selected Equias as their endorsed vendor. I think another dozen or state banking associations also selected them. Is that a fair statement?   David: Ten of them.   Kelly: Ten, clearly they emerged in my mind and in other’s mind as the key player out there. I met with David and I found him to be a key player in the industry, so I thought I'd do a podcast disclosing that I have an independent consultant relationship with David’s company, Equias. I thought we’d do a podcast and talk about first of all just give us a brief background on who you are, how you got into this space, some background and then we’ll talk about the product generally and how you got into this space and what your take is on that. You want to kick it off with some brief bio on who you are?   David: I graduated from the University of Tennessee, Knoxville with a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration, with a major in accounting, then worked for Deloitte Touche for nine years and an investment banking firm for three years. Then, while I was in investment banking, one of my clients was looking at an insurance product and asked me to help evaluate it knowing that I was a CPA technical type.     I liked what I saw, but what I didn’t like was that, it had a four percent front-end load charge. I thought it was a good asset class, but if we could get rid of the load charge we could make it very viable for banks to want to use as an asset class. I've been in bank owned life insurance and nonqualified differed comp for the last twenty-seven years now. I've worked with hundreds of banks over that period of time. I live in Memphis. I have a wife and six children. There’s a lot to do on a daily basis just keeping up with the family.   Kelly: All right, taking from your statement that you saw what was going in the market, the four percent front-end load. Let's elaborate on that because my understanding based on discussion with others including yourself is that you were one of the early pioneers of crafting the product offering as it is right now. What was the need in the market at that time? Give us a general year when that was. Then, where was the gap in products available and the products needed by the bank? What did you see at that time?   David: The year was 1989. There were several products available in the market, but they all had loads of between two and four percent. That means if you purchased a million dollars of BOLI asset and you had even a two percent load that was a $20,000 initial reduction of your cash value. You’d have to reduce your earnings and capital by $20,000 per million. I saw that as a hindrance to banks wanting to buy that asset.     So my partner at the time, who was an attorney, and I decided we could go to insurance carriers and see if they could provide a product that had no-loads which would be more viable for a bank. During that process we found that there's more to it than we’d initially understood. The carriers have to pay a premium tax to the state which generally averages about two percent. Then the federal government has a tax called the DAC or Deferred Acquisition Cost tax that effectively costs around a point and a quarter.     Carriers at time were not comfortable with essentially front ending that asset to give a hundred percent credit after they paid the taxes because they would potentially lose the money if the policy didn’t remain on the books. It took a fair amount of discussion and a fair amount of time, but my partner and I were able to convince four carriers to do no-load contracts.     At that time, I guess there were two other firms that we knew of in the business. They were Bank Compensation Strategies who pioneered the business and then there was Benmark. They were the primary players in, it wasn’t called BOLI then, the bank owned life insurance market. The need for it was to find a product that was viable to banks that didn’t have these loads charges and the idea behind it, back in that day, was primarily to fund nonqualified, deferred compensation plans for management and Boards of banks.   Kelly: That was the primary need for the product, not as an investment per se, but to help fund the nonqualified benefit portion.   David: Yes, to maybe take it a step further. There were not really any regs back until 1991 that were clear as to what a bank could purchase and couldn’t purchase. They could not buy life insurance as an investment asset. They could buy it to fund specific needs. A nonqualified, deferred comp plan was widely considered to be one of those specific items that could be funded with life insurance. It was not clear at the time that you could buy life insurance to informally fund health care and 401K and other retirement benefits and group life benefits and so forth.     Even in the first regs that were issued in 1991, bank reg; I think it’s called BC249, essentially said that you can’t buy life insurance as an investment. You can buy it to offset the cost of certain benefit plans. Even then it wasn’t clear whether that covered health care and 401Ks and things like that, so the initial design of bank owned life insurance was primarily for the purpose of nonqualified deferred compensation plans.   Kelly: The regs specifically prohibited it as an alternative investment asset class. Is that mainly because of that front-end charge and regulators didn’t want to see the hit to capital?   David: That was not the reason. They just viewed life insurance as not a normal asset for a bank from an investment standpoint. It was for specific purposes, but not considered to be an investment in the same terms as Treasury’s and agencies and municipal bonds.   Kelly: Now, that has changed since those early years correct that regulatory perspective?   David: Technically no, in 1996 there was a guidance issued under OCC96-51 which specifically gave authority for a bank to buy life insurance to informally fund retirement benefits and health care. So even today you can't buy life insurance purely as an investment. You have to purchase it from a regulatory standpoint to offset and/or recover the cost of employee benefit plans.     For instance, if a bank had no employee benefit plans; if they weren’t providing health care or 401K’s or retirement plans or nonqualified plans, they really could not buy life insurance and hold onto it until the death of the insured because they would not have a valid reason under the regs to buy that life insurance.   Kelly: They could only buy like Key Man life insurance.   David: They could buy the Key Man, but when that Key Man would leave the bank they’d have to surrender the policy because there was no need for it once that key man left.   Kelly: A bank does not have to have a nonqualified benefit plan. It could just have any sort of benefit plan. It could be health insurance. It could be 401K, any sort of benefit, correct?   David: That's correct, as long as they're providing employee benefits. From experience, if a bank provides health care coverage typically the cost of health care in today’s market is so high that health care alone is enough to justify buying bank owned life insurance generally up to twenty-five percent of capital.   Kelly: Right, so do you see BOLI as primarily an alternative asset class or an insurance product with investment benefits or does it kind of depend on what the needs of the bank are?   David: I would say it depends on the needs of the bank. I'd say it probably leans more toward the alternative asset class in that you look at the features of bank owned life insurance as a tool to produce earnings that would help the bottom line and help recover employee benefit expenses. BOLI has features that are attractive from that standpoint.   Kelly: As an alternative asset class, and I know you and I've had this discussion offline a couple times, if you consider the investment features as an alternative asset class what asset class does BOLI compete against best or worst I suppose? Where do you think, if you were a bank and they liked the features and benefits of BOLI and they need as a replacement. What asset do you think it replaces best MUNI’s, agencies, loans? As I see it, it could be a loan to an insurance company. Where do you see it?   David: It's hard to say that BOLI replaces any particular investment because the features are different than all the other asset classes that are traditional for a bank. If you go down that path and talk about, for instance, BOLI versus MUNI’s there is some common characteristics in that they both have income that's not taxable that helps produce generally higher returns than most taxable asset classes.     There are a lot of differences in those two asset classes, for instance, MUNI’s generally have a fixed rate interest rate, whereas BOLI is an adjustable interest rate. The credit quality of both are high. The BOLI carriers tend to be large, very well-known, highly rated carriers, so very strong credit quality. BOLI has no mark to market in the asset, that in reporting periods whereas municipal bonds generally have to do a mark to market of capital through the OTTI adjustment. BOLI essentially doesn’t have a diminution of value when rates rise whereas municipal bonds could.     Now, from the value of municipal bonds relative to BOLI is that it's always tax-free rather than tax deferred. BOLI’s tax deferred technically, but if held until death its tax free. If you surrender a BOLI contract before maturity, before the person dies, you have a tax liability for the gain plus an extra ten percent for the it’s called a modified endowment contract penalty. BOLI effectively has minimal liquidity from the standpoint of once you buy it you intend to hold it until death, because you don’t want to incur the tax liability.     Whereas a municipal bond if you decided to sell that you would still retain all the income that you've earned to that point tax free. Sometimes banks put municipal bonds in the hold to maturity buckets so they can't really sell the bond; it becomes an illiquid asset for them as well. There's some pros and cons to each, but BOLI does hold up well generally considering the pros and cons of it to any of the asset classes.   Kelly: But, especially MUNI’s.   David: Yes, I think from that standpoint rather than one versus the other it might be some combination of the two for diversification.   Kelly: From my perspective, I see MUNI yields to get higher yield you have to extend duration, so you look at the risk of extending duration versus investing some assets in bank owned life insurance. I've only been doing this for a year now. It’s seems that like half the banks have BOLI on the balance sheet and half don’t.     From my perspective, it's kind of a CPA, risk manager, investment person I don’t really see why a bank wouldn’t max out their twenty-five percent of net capital. Now, that sounds pretty self-serving I know, but in your experience what's the single biggest reason for a bank to not include BOLI in its assets class, because there certainly is a reasonable amount of bias and hesitancy for Boards and CFO’s to get BOLI. What's the single biggest reason that you see for a bank to not include it in their asset class?   David: The stats on BOLI are that sixty percent of the banks across the country have BOLI and forty percent don’t. For banks over a hundred million it's about two-thirds that have BOLI and one-third that don’t. It’s fairly common for banks above one hundred million to have an investment in bank owned life insurance. For those that don’t, it generally falls into one of two to three reasons.     Probably the most prevalent is a bank that has high loan demand. The bank wants to make loans to its local market because that helps build franchise value. If they have high loan demands, say their loan to deposit ratio is over a hundred percent, they may not have the liquidity to hold BOLI at the current time. All their attention and all their liquidity is going into making loans. While BOLI competes with loans well on the yield side, the tax equivalent yield side, banks tend to want to have loans for building the franchise value versus owning bank owned life insurance. If they have the option, they're going it put it into loans rather than BOLI assuming they feel comfortable with the credit quality of those loans. That's probably the biggest reason.     Number two is that some banks don’t fully understand the asset, haven’t taken the time to fully understand it. The pros and cons and features of BOLI is not traditional with a lot of banks. There's this uncertainty about something that's not traditional. They may think “We haven’t done that before and I don’t want to take the time to learn pros and cons.” Maybe they’ve had a presentation and it wasn’t presented in a way that made it clear what the pros and cons are. They maybe saw it as too much of a sales push instead of laying out all the pros and all the cons kind of thing.     Keep in mind that for BOLI to be approved by a bank it generally requires a hundred percent agreement, meaning you must have the CFO of the bank, the CEO of the bank and usually everybody on the Board to be in unison that they want to buy BOLI. You can have one person dissent out of ten, for instance, and that could keep it from happening.   Kelly: Why is unanimity required?   David: It’s not required. It's just generally the way it is. First off, if you don’t have the CEO and CFO on board it probably won't go to the Board. You need both of them. The Board, they normally just don’t want BOLI to be something that causes dissention among the Board members. That's not always the case, but typically they need all Board members or at least eighty to ninety percent approval before they would invest in the asset. I haven’t really run into it, but I don’t think you’ll see BOLI being approved on a five to four vote.   Kelly: Yeah, but that would be true with just about any asset class. Let's say the bank wanted to, the CFO proposed extending duration. Don’t you think that unanimity would be expected or the same standard would be expected for that decision to extend municipal bond duration versus like in a BOLI decision?   David: Yes, I would think so. On investments they have their investment policy that's been approved by the Board and that decision would have to be made within the investment policy about extending duration. Yes, I would think you would need a very high approval rate of the Board members before you would change the investment the policy to do something that effectively increases the risk.   Kelly: Do you see BOLI as being subject to…say within the scope of the banks investment policy in your experience?   David: No, BOLI has its own policy. One of the requirements under the regs is that you have to have a BOLI policy before you can purchase it. You would establish a bank owned life insurance policy; in a sense it's an investment policy for BOLI all to its own. It explains within the policy the bank’s view of BOLI; the percentage of capital that the bank would be willing to purchase; the percent to any one carrier; the due diligence that would be done before purchase; carrier selection; vendor selection. How would they go about deciding which carriers, which vendors and so forth? That all has to be documented in a policy before the bank can even go about purchasing a BOLI product.   Kelly: The bank either includes that as a chapter within the investment policy or they have it as its own separate investment policy.   David: I have pretty much only seen it as its own separate policy. If they include it within the investment policy it would be its own chapter. It's fairly lengthy. It's usually ten - fifteen pages of policy all to itself.   Kelly: How has the industry changed since the early years?   David: In the early years, I guess from a salesperson’s standpoint the hard part was to get a bank to talk to you about BOLI because it just wasn’t common and owning life insurance as an asset was not normal. It was outside the box and a lot of bankers didn’t want to discuss doing something that was outside the box. The biggest hurdle was getting the audience.     Today, most banks know about BOLI so they've heard about it and they have had many, many sales calls about it. Other banks they know have purchased it, so they understand at least the term and what it is. Now, there are just a whole lot of sales calls from insurance sales folks asking about BOLI. They're aware of it. It's just very, very competitive and maybe difficult for the bankers to understand the difference in firm A versus firm B.     The other way that's changed, when I started doing this the only products available were what's called general account products where the carrier provides a universal life insurance product or some whole life products that have an interest rate or dividend rate. Then the main risk to the bank was a carrier’s credit whether the carrier would be able to pay the claim later. Today, you have not only general account which are still very popular, but since then there's been a lot of purchases of what is called hybrid separate account products and also variable separate account products.     Variable separate account products are where the assets are segregated from creditors somewhat like a mutual fund. The bank can choose to invest the money within a particular investment bucket; although, for a bank it as to be eligible investments unless it's used as a hedge against a deferred comp plan. Those have some higher risk features, a little bit more moving parts. They have a stable value wrap sold by a registered product or private placement memorandum and so they're more complicated. Most community banks shy away from those because of the complications and the mark to market within the portfolio.     Then, there's a hybrid separate account product that has features very much like a general account. It has an added credit enhancement that if the carrier were to ever become insolvent the assets within the separate account by legal definitions are segregated from creditors of the insurance carrier so that those assets would only be available to the policy holders. These new asset classes have been pretty popular and have essentially enhanced the options for banks to buy bank owned life insurance.   Kelly: The first generation of BOLI was the general account, no-load product and then the second generation would be some of these the hybrid accounts and some of these more sophisticated product structures. But the core concept was the same, right?   David: That's correct, basically similar structure from a standpoint of no loads, no surrender charges, single premium, just a difference in the chassis if you will.   Kelly: Right, the risk sharing to a certain extent, right, because was the separate account available back then in the early years?   David: You could buy a separate account that was called variable universal life. It was a shelf product, but banks really didn’t buy it then because you had mark to market. Say it was all in a bond fund but the interest rates went up and the value of the bond fund went down five percent you’d have to take an immediate mark to market on your balance sheet and income statement. That was not very attractive to a buyer. If you're a bank you don’t want that kind of volatility on your income statement.   Kelly: Even though that's the nature of a municipal bond portfolio, they have to mark those.   David: A municipal bond portfolio they mark to market, but not through the income statement. They mark to market through the capital account.   Kelly: Right.   David: It doesn’t flow through income.   Kelly: Right.   David: Whereas if you were to do the same thing in a variable universal life insurance contract and have that mark to market risk you’d have to mark that through your income statement because the cash value is changing.   Kelly: One of the things that I noticed about Equias, again this sounds somewhat self-serving, but I’ll say it anyway. This relates to the industry changes. When I see Equias, it just seems to be a highly professional organization. I think eighteen consultants and thirty some support personnel and I believe seven CPAs and a bunch of attorneys, MBA’s that kind of thing. It just seems that one of the things that appears to have happened with Equias having emerged as the key player is the element of professional consulting capabilities versus I would suspect in the early years, and currently, many of potentially our competitors, it's mainly a bunch of insurance guys, right, trying to sell product?  I would think in the early years that's what it was all about, insurance guys trying to sell insurance to a new market…banks.   David: Yes, there was a lot of that. The business model that Equias developed was this is not an area that banks have a lot of expertise in and that they need support services so that they can spend a minimal amount of their time dealing with the technical stuff and don’t have to pay a lot to CPA firms and law firms to help them through the process.     We set up the firm with the idea that we could provide those services at costs that are competitive with anybody in the marketplace. Through volume we could provide more services and all the technical services that a bank would need, but do it in a very cost effective way. That’s where we actually have eight CPAs and two attorneys and a former OCC regulator, former bankers, bank directors, and a former head of the BOLI area for one of the major insurance carriers.     We've staffed our firm with very, very experienced, competent, technical people including the consultants are all very experienced, so that we could be a real asset to the banks. It'd be hard for our competitors to match our knowledge and experience and to duplicate what we can do.   Kelly: One of the things that got my attention was I think you're one of the few that has a SOC 1, Type 2 audit. Not many insurance “agencies” have that kind of thing going on. That was a good plus in my mind with you guys.   David: Yeah, it covers our implementation process, as well as our administration process, and covers not only the BOLI side of it, but covers the nonqualified benefits side. We’ve set up internal controls when we established the company and we followed those controls. We've been able to go through the audit process very efficiently and effectively.   Kelly: I’ll probably be criticized for this being an infomercial for Equias, but what the heck. That's what we can do. All right let's finish with one final thing. I’ll give you the choice. This is a question I ask every guest either your favorite quote or, what I like the best, is tell us what one of the stupidest things you’ve said or done in your business career.   David: One of the early days in my career I remember having gone to this bank to explain BOLI and the nonqualified plans probably for the seventh or eighth time. Some of the Board members were wearing out with me coming back almost it seemed like every month. One of the Board members, who was an attorney, when I came back this time she just looked and “Oh no, not you again.” I said, “Yeah.” She said, “Look, if I vote for this, does that mean you won't come back and you'll leave us alone?” I said, ‘You’ve got my word on that.” I guess in that case persistence paid off.   Kelly: It's good, yeah.   David: It wasn’t one of those real positive “I'm glad to see you” kind of moments.   Kelly: That's right; you got the deal done though.   David: Yeah, I was able to get it done through persistence, not through the sales process really.   Kelly: Yeah, that's good. All right, David, thanks for your time. I appreciate it.   We want to thank you for listening to the syndicated audio program, BankBosun.com The audio content is produced by Kelly Coughlin, Chief Executive Officer of BankBosun, LLC;  and syndicated by Seth Greene, Market Domination LLC, with the help of Kevin Boyle. Video content is produced by The Guildmaster Studio, Keenan Bobson Boyle. The voice introduction is me, Karim Kronfli. The program is hosted by Kelly Coughlin. If you like this program, please tell us. If you don’t, please tell us how we can improve it. Now, some disclaimers. Kelly is licensed with the Minnesota State Board of Accountancy as a Certified Public Accountant.   Kelly provides bank owned life insurance portfolio and nonqualified benefit services to banks across the United States.  The views expressed here are solely those of Kelly Coughlin and his guests in their private capacity and do not in any other way represent the views of any other agent, principal, employer, employee, vendor or supplier of Kelly Coughlin.  

Kelly Coughlin interviews Wes Sierk, President and Co-Founder of Risk Management Advisors. Wes is the author of the book Taken Captive: The Secret to Capturing Your Piece of America’s Multi-Billion Dollar Insurance Industry. Wes is a recognized expert in using captive insurance strategies to manage and fund certain types of risk. Kelly Coughlin believes that such a strategy could be used to manage and fund cyber security risk. This is the first in a series of three podcasts covering captive insurance and cyber security risk management.   Kelly Coughlin is CEO of BankBosun, a management consulting firm helping bank C-Level Officers navigate risk and discover reward. He is the host of the syndicated audio podcast, BankBosun.com. Kelly brings over 25 years of experience with companies like PWC, Lloyds Bank, and Merrill Lynch. On the podcast Kelly interviews key executives in the banking ecosystem to provide bank C-Suite officers, risk management, technology, and investment ideas and solutions to help them navigate risks and discover rewards. And now your host, Kelly Coughlin. Kelly: Hello this is Kelly Coughlin with the BankBosun. This is the podcast that’s the first in a series of three podcasts that are going to be related to using captive insurance strategy to manage and ensure cyber security risk and loss. I’ve talked to many bankers over my 25-year career and I have observed in the past five years cyber security going from a concern of IT guys and techno geeks to top of mind attention and concern of CEOs, CFOs and boards of directors. In fact, I was at a conference in Kansas a while back, and a number of the sessions were on cyber security risk. I was thinking, “Well, should we go to that? Should we not go to that?” We talked to C-level execs. These sessions were all standing room only, completely filled with C-level execs. It occurred to me that in this environment, we have potentially overpricing of all services related to the risk management of this risk including prevention, detection, hardware, software, consulting. I thought the subject of these 3 podcasts would be the transference of this risk. I think one of the areas that I detect as potentially being mis-priced is the cost of insurance, partly because the risk of loss is all over the map. We thought, “Let’s explore cyber security risk through a captive insurance enterprise.” To help kick this series off, I am interviewing Wes Sierk, President and Cofounder of Risk Management Advisors. I came across Wes through a book that he wrote, exciting title called, Taken Captive. That sounds good so far. Here’s where it goes downhill: “The secret to capturing your piece of America’s multi-billion dollar insurance industry.” I’m interviewing Wes remotely. He’s in Long Beach, California. Wes, you heard my introduction, and the reason you would be on this call, but let’s start with a couple of minutes on your background, how it would connect to bank cyber security risk management. Wes: Well first of all thank you for having me on the show. I started out in the insurance business in 1993 in a division of Northwestern Mutual, which was a life insurance company called CCI, Compensation Consulting Inc. Mostly what we did there is qualified and non-qualified planning, retirement plans and deferred comp, things like that. I came across captive insurance companies in 2000. My first thought was, it was a perfect alternative to deferred comp. That’s how I got into it. My background is … I’m a researcher, so I started digging into why life insurance was all the same. It was you go to a life insurance company and you get a 45-year-old male, and you say, “How much is a million dollars of coverage?” The insurance company prints out that ledger. If you had ten agents going to the market, they would all come back with the same quote. PNC is completely different. You actually have one broker who goes to the market for you and it’s much more of a negotiation, which leads into the pricing issues that you alluded to earlier in your call. My partner Jared and myself went on to form Risk Management Advisors in 2004 and all we’ve been doing since is just the design, implementation and management of captive insurance companies. On a personal side, married for about 24 years, two kids, I coach baseball, and Risk Management Advisors has a Nascar team. Kelly: Give us a definition in two sentences of captive insurance. Wes: It’s an insurance company that a business sets up to insure their own risk. It’s pretty simple. Kelly: It could be a bank? Wes: Yes. Instead of them buying their general liability, their cyber, their property, all of their coverage from AIG, Zurich, Liberties of the world, they actually form their own licensed regulated insurance company and they pay those premiums to their own company. They deduct those premiums, just like they would by paying any other company. Kelly: All right. In terms of primary motivations, my research shows that one, you’ve got access to cheap insurance rates because you’re paying them directly to your own carriers so to speak, right? You’ve got first dollar loss coverage, you can accelerate loss deductions, which appears to be a fancy term for you can over-fund the risk premium and build up tax deductible reserve. Are those the three core motivations to do this, or are there others? What’s the primary motivation to do this? Wes: I think you hit the nail on the head. One thing it does give you, if you’re an insurance company, is it gives you access to the reinsurance marketplace. Kelly: How much would a bank be saving? Are you talking 5% or are we talking 40%? Wes: Well it depends on the kind of policies they’re writing and the amount of risk that they’re willing to take. One thing is, the reason why reinsurance is less expensive is because the insurance industry, insurance companies, have thousands of employees. I read somewhere that the insurance industry has three times as many employees as the US Post Office. They do a lot of the processing of paperwork and claims and things like that, so they have higher overhead. A re-insurer can get away with having 5% of the employees of an insurance company, because they only attach at a certain level whether that’s 50, 100, 250, a million, whatever. They’re not getting involved in the day-to-day operations of the insurance company and the day-to-day pay out of claims. That’s left to the insurance company level. We see, for regular insurances, I would say you could see a 30% savings over your traditional insurance. Kelly: In the banking business we have what are called banker’s banks, and they provide banking services to banks. They don’t do anything directly with the public. So would a reinsurance company be an insurance company’s insurance company where they provide services only to another insurance company, so you cut out all of the sales process I suppose, the distribution expenses? Aren’t those the core things that are cut out plus the servicing part because they’re not dealing with million to 20 million dollar cases, they’re dealing with whatever the number is, 50 million or above, the larger ones? Wes: You’re exactly right. Your analogy is very good. Where bankers have banker’s banks, this would be like an insurance company’s insurance company. Kelly: If one were going to set up a captive, that entity would have to also sign up, unless they were going to absorb all of the risk themselves, which is unlikely. If they want to transfer or share some of that risk, they have to set up relationships with reinsurance companies, correct? Wes: Correct, unless they want to take that risk themselves, which we don’t usually recommend the first couple of years. Kelly: I suppose companies like you, this is not an infomercial for your group, but is that part of what you do, is you have these relationships and there’s probably some vetting process that you would go through to bring on a new captive client, I suppose, and introduce them and negotiate terms, etc with the reinsurance company. Is that one of the roles that your company provides? Wes: Yes it is. Clients come to us because they want us to set up and manage their insurance company for them; deal with the departments insurance; do all of the regulatory filings and in most cases, not all cases but most cases; they’ll have us go and negotiate the reinsurance contracts for them. The good thing about reinsurance, reinsurance is always sold net of commissions, unlike an insurance policy where you pay an insurance agent, we’re just negotiating on behalf of the insurance company as a manager of the insurance company. Kelly: That’s where the big savings comes from. Wes: Yeah, there’s a lot of savings in that. I’m not going to begrudge brokers because brokers bring a tremendous amount of value to clients. Kelly: There are a couple of ways to set these things up from what I can tell. You could set them up as a single parent captive or a group pooled collective type where you have a group of banks. You have a single bank, Bank A that decides, “We’re going to set this up.” It’s only one bank in there. Then you have a pooled or group approach where you have Banks A and B setting up the collective. They either do it alone or with others, like kind business I suppose, right? Is that a fair assessment? Wes: Yeah, they either do it by themselves or they do it with other people. Then within the other people, there is many different ways they can do it. Kelly: You know the context and setting that this call is about. It’s specific community banks, cyber security risk, captive insurance. If you had to Google this, those three terms would be in there. One other risk if you do it as a group or collective, let’s just say there are two banks in the collective – you have Bank A and B that are, let’s say they’re putting in an equal amount. Let’s say Bank A has great internal controls and risk management processes, Bank B has terrible ones. Bank B incurs all the loss and Bank A has insured it all. There part of the reason was to put in a bunch of excess premium perhaps, build up this reserve. Then you have Bank B eating up all the reserves. Is there a way that a bank can set up a hybrid of this where they could share say, the operating expenses, maybe consulting expenses, a number of things related to the entity? It could be another class of stock, something where the actual risk is only absorbed by the individual bank and ultimately a reinsurance carrier downstream. Wes: There could be, but I wanted to go back to one point you made, which was Bank A has great internal controls and Bank B doesn’t. The issue with cyber security is many banks have good security or great security, but it’s also the luck of the draw. The person with bad security could be fine and the one with great internal controls could have that one in a million chance where somebody comes in and breaches their security or takes millions of dollars out of their company. Within the group captive there’s also cell companies. You can have a cell captive. A cell captive is one where it basically looks at and smells like one large insurance company but each individual bank has its own cell, so they kind of wall off the assets and liabilities on a bank by bank or cell by cell limit. That could go a long way to protecting the bank. Then you go get one reinsurance treaty for all of the banks, and then you carve it off. You go get 100 million dollars of coverage and you carve it off at 5 million dollars per bank for twenty banks. The insurance companies like that because they know that if they’re writing 100 million dollars in coverage and they basically divided it at 5 million between twenty banks, they know their chance of loss is actually smaller. The frequency may be higher but the severity probably wouldn’t, and that’s where they get into the pricing. They’d much rather spread it 5 million over twenty banks, than one bank have a 20 or 25 million dollar claim. Kelly: I accept your point that Bank A may have great controls and Bank B not, but Bank A could be hacked, right? I understand that’s a valid point, but I think in this environment what is going to happen is certainly you have the Top 10 banks, they’re the high-value targets of cyber criminals. They have the budget to always attempt to put up the adequate defenses to that. I fear what is going to happen is the less target-rich environments like community banks will, as the Top 10 banks for instance, get better at defense, then the smaller community banks are going to be the target and they don’t have the resources to fund that. It’s an expensive undertaking. where you’ve got hardware expenses, software, consulting, insurance, all of this stuff, and staff of course. My thinking was that you set up this captive and you develop best practices. I’m going back to my PWC days in consulting, where in consulting business you’re always looking for best practices, but you develop best practices and you share the costs. You buy them properly, buy them at the right price, right terms, etc, and then you share the cost over twenty entities and not one community bank. The reality is these banks can’t afford to set up the high-level controls that a Top 10 bank can do it. Wes: You’re exactly right. It’s the philosophy of build your ark before the flood comes. By creating their own insurance company and warehousing dollars today, because of the way the policies are written, they basically expire every 15 months. If they are the targets of cyber criminals three years from now, they would have already stockpiled a ton of money, so they can weather a claim if they have it and maybe not have to hit their reinsurance. To your point, we both know what’s happening in the cyber marketplace as far as the premium dollars in the traditional market. The reason why … it’s because insurance companies are doing the exact same thing. They’re charging exorbitant fees today because they don’t know how big this is going to be. It reminds me of the old asbestos claims. Remember when asbestos started being a problem? All of the insurance companies started raising their rates dramatically. Then what happened was, a couple of smart insurance guys said, “You’re charging $700,000 for a million dollar general liability policy for asbestos, but if the people actually get hurt, it’s going to be a worker’s comp claim.” It’s not going to be a general liability claim, but the insurance company hadn’t thought that far ahead. They just wanted to get as many dollars in their coffers as they could in case they got hit. For cyber, you went to that conference … you’re exactly right. Five years ago it would have been just the IT people and you’d have fifteen people in the room. Now it’s actually the C-level. It’s CEO, CLO, CFO that are doing this. Kelly: The board members are the ones that are saying, “Get to the conference. I want you there.” They’re telling their CEOs to get there. Wes: It’s huge. It’s such a huge problem. I was just reading an FBI report on cyber crime. Their prediction is all businesses in the next five years will be spending at least 10% of their gross income on cyber for protections and hardware and software, and everything. You can’t even fathom that today, but it’s coming. Now we have passwords on top of passwords to get into password programs. They listed off that the FBI did a study and they went into the Apple iTunes store where people get the applications and they have all these password programs. 10 of the top 20 were programs that were sold that said, “Number one password protector.” They were sold and designed by organized crime, downloading these programs for their iPhone and their Androids, putting all their passwords in, all their banking information, and all that stuff was being directly fed to Russian organized crime. They don’t have to steal cartons of cigarettes anymore when they can make 20 to 30 million dollars in one financial transaction. Kelly: Absolutely. Wes: It’s staggering. I can see why these board members and CFOs and everyone else would be concerned about it. It’s a big issue. One of our clients was just hit with it. Kelly: Let’s say we set up Newco captive insurance for community banks. You set up as part of this synthesis of best practices and captive insurance for cyber security. I’m going to throw in another term, “best practices.” I don’t necessarily think they’re into gouging. They just can’t efficiently price it because the risk parameters or the level of risk that they’re taking on an entity basis per entity, per insured, is all over the map. When you take in a company to join the captive … would you call them a shareholder? Wes: Yes. Kelly: Okay. When you take a shareholder, they have to adopt the best practices standards that the new captive insurance carrier says. Does that make sense, that would be part of the admission process? Wes: I would say you definitely want to do that. Some insurance companies, it’s really a risk assessment for cyber preparedness. There are some insurance companies that have done a great job at this. In fact, one of them, these people developed this cyber preparedness company for Ace and Chub insurance company, as freelancers. They said, “Well we want this to make sure.” For them they realized that, “Hey, there’s a real market for this.” They basically bought company back for nothing. This was a few years ago. They’re like, “Well this isn’t going to be as big as we thought it was.” That’s all they do is analyze cyber preparedness. They give you a full report. We just had them come into ours because we have a lot of data in our stuff. We have a lot of HIPPA stuff because we run insurance companies for medical, for example. They gave us a whole big report of change this, change this, change this, and some stuff you’d never even think about. You’re like, “Whoa.” The cost to do it … I thought it was going to be very expensive but it was nothing on the scale of things. Kelly: You just hope that they’re not owned by the Russian mob, right? Wes: Yeah, exactly. Three of my clients had used them and the one that just got hit for cyber, their system was set up in such a way where they were instantly notified that this was happening. This was a server in Toronto. Instantly they had to switch the whole thing offline. They flew two of their internal programmers from here in California up to Toronto. They were back online in under 24 hours without an ounce of data. I’m like, “You know what? I’ve got to have your people come in and do this.” This is a company that does 100 million dollars in sales. I think everyone should be requiring this. Kelly: I think there’s some really cool things you could do when you have many entities splitting the cost of this. I’m certainly set up best policies, procedures, all that kind of stuff. You could buy licenses. You get quantity discount, volume discounts there. There’s a lot of benefit to having a larger group in there. Even just the project team, these banks don’t have the resources to have a really good project team to do a good vendor search, for instance. That’s a costly undertaking in and of itself is, “Well what email provider should we do?” They just don’t have the resources free to do that. You threw out the 10% number. My goal would be to let’s set it up so the goal we could make that a 5% of revenue number, not 10. Wes: Or 1%. What I was saying was, that was what the FBI’s projection of what people would be spending on their cyber stuff was. In my business, I can’t even fathom that. We spend all this money a year on hardware and software, and our business is X. If I were to extrapolate that out to say, “Well how much would we do if we did 10%?” There’s like, “There’s no way.” We could buy server hubs. We could buy everything. I guarantee you if you picked ten of your banks who listen to this, one of them is doing something great that the other nine aren’t, and so having a depository … You say, “Hey this was a great idea that this bank is doing and then you could take it over to the other one.” Kelly: Yeah, but what happens, Wes, is that everybody is going to these conferences. They get the heck scared out of them, they come back and they talk to their IT guy and say, “You know I just went to a conference. We’ve got to start controlling this risk.” Then they look at it and realize that, “Oh this is going to cost $100,000? Oh I guess we can’t afford that.” There’s plenty of ideas out there. There are some great ideas and there is some not great ideas, but there’s loads of ideas. Taking the idea and having the resources to actually implement is the big challenge. I believe that the captive program is a way to pull those things together buy cost-efficiently, do vendor searches efficiently. It all comes together there through that thing. Yeah, there are some tax benefits by throwing in higher premiums, that kind of thing. That’s great but I don’t think this is primarily a tax-driven … It just so happens that taxes will be favorable … favorable tax treatment. I really think it’s the cost-effective way to manage risk and to get best practices adopted in community banks throughout the country that otherwise just can’t quite afford it in their budget. Wes: I was going to say, and you’re using double duty dollars. Right now if they buy cyber insurance from AIG, they’re not getting internal controls, they’re not getting all of this due diligence, they’re not having somebody come in. They pay them and then if there is a claim … They still on top of their premiums have to go out and do the best practices and do all of the stuff to make sure they’re secured vs. paying premiums to their own company. Let’s say the insurance company takes 10% of all the premiums that it takes in from all the companies and then uses that to go in and install the best practices and stuff, so you’re actually using money that you would have just given to somebody else to now improve your overall business operation. We’ve had people do that with worker’s comp where, hey they can’t afford a safety guy and their worker’s comp rates have gone up, so they create their own worker’s comp company and now they use the money they were giving to Liberty and AIG and all these other companies to hire their own full-time safety person. That’s actually now just an expense of the insurance company vs them having to take money out of the bottom line of their company. Kelly: One other thought that’s a great image that I have of you is set up this captive, you have fifty banks involved and you also fund a cyber security SWAT team comprised of Navy Seals and Rangers that are deployed in the event of some ransom war type deal, right? Then they get engaged, they’re ready to go, and then they go out and take them down. Wes: Yeah, that’s a great idea. Kelly: Otherwise it’s a call to the FBI and okay, they do great work, granted, but man it’d be nice to have our own team. That could be Phase 2 down the road. Anyway, let’s wrap it up. I really appreciate your time. Let me ask you this. Do you have a favorite quote? Wes: Yeah, well I do but it’s a Ayn Rand in Atlas Shrugged they talked about Rearden Metal and it was going to be too expensive to rebuild these bridges for the trains using Rearden Metal because of the engineering. The quote was, “When men got structural steel, they didn’t use it to build steel copies of wooden bridges.” Kelly: Good one. Wes: I look at captives and things like that as you can use it as a powerful tool to do something in a completely different way. You don’t have to just use it for the same way you were always doing stuff. I would say that would be the first one that popped into my mind. Kelly: What’s the stupidest thing you’ve ever done in your business career? Give people a laugh. Give people a chuckle here. Wes: Oh, I have an album on my bookshelf. You know Bill Withers, “Lean on Me”? Kelly: Lean on Me and “Use Me”. Wes: I got an appointment. His wife called and wanted me to come talk about overall financial planning and stuff. I went to see him and I’m like, “I love your music. I love the movie and everything.” They’re just sitting there like uh-huh, uh-huh. The meeting didn’t go well and I left there. I had it confused with Stand by Me instead of Lean on Me. My dad found this Bill Withers album and he said, “Keep this on your bookshelf and any time you don’t know the answer, you won’t make a complete fool of yourself.” Kelly: Oh that’s a great one! That’s very good, I love that one. All right, Wes. I appreciate your time. How can people contact you? Wes: Yeah, my website is Risk Management Advisors. It’s riskMGMTadvisors.com and my email is WSIERK@riskMGMTadvisors.com. I create a website that’s not branded by us, but it’s captiveinsurance101.com and it just has general info on captives. You were kind enough to mention my book. The book is called Taken Captive and it’s just takencaptive.com We want to thank you for listening to the syndicated audio program, BankBosun.com The audio content is produced by Kelly Coughlin, Chief Executive Officer of BankBosun, LLC; and syndicated by Seth Greene, Market Domination LLC, with the help of Kevin Boyle. Video content is produced by The Guildmaster Studio, Keenan Bobson Boyle. The voice introduction is me, Karim Kronfli. The program is hosted by Kelly Coughlin. If you like this program, please tell us. If you don’t, please tell us how we can improve it. Now, some disclaimers. Kelly is licensed with the Minnesota State Board of Accountancy as a Certified Public Accountant. Kelly provides bank owned life insurance portfolio and nonqualified benefit services to banks across the United States. The views expressed here are solely those of Kelly Coughlin and his guests in their private capacity and do not in any other way represent the views of any other agent, principal, employer, employee, vendor or supplier of Kelly Coughlin.