Podcasts about aig

FS Brew is the region's first podcast dedicated to insurance and insurtech across the UAE and the broader Middle East.In this episode, hosts Renjit Philip, Managing Partner at Futureu Strategy Group, and Vidya, Founder of FWD, sit down with Max Robbie, CEO of Markel International Dubai, to mark ten years of Markel's presence in the region and unpack where specialty insurance is headed next.Topics covered:Markel's ten years in the Middle East and how the market has evolvedDIFC's premium growth to 4.2 billion dollars in 2025, and how much reflects genuinely new risk versus relocated businessSaudi Arabia's RHQ mandates and local retention rules, and their effect on Dubai-brokered businessLessons from the April 2024 UAE and Oman floods and whether underwriting terms have structurally changedMarine and political risk across the Red Sea and Strait of Hormuz, and how Ports & Terminals and War & Terrorism are assessed togetherCyber insurance demand across MENA and whether it is broadening beyond financial institutions and data centresUnderwriting exposure at GCC data centre megaprojects, spanning construction, cyber and business interruption riskWhether current conflict-driven demand is a genuine tailwind for specialty insurers or an understated riskMarkel's Q2 combined ratio and the effect of Middle East conflict events on loss ratiosWhat makes a risk unacceptable, even with a strong broker relationshipEarly-stage collaboration between underwriters, brokers and engineering teams on MENA energy transition megaprojectsCompetition from Liberty, Zurich, Chubb and AIG in energy and construction, and what sets Markel apartMarkel's outlook for the GCC by 2030The episode closes with rapid fire questions on career lessons, leadership style and the innovations shaping the future of insurance in the region.00:00 – Introduction & Welcome01:10 – Max Robbie's Journey: Moving from London to Dubai04:11 – DIFC's Premium Surge: New Risk vs. Market Relocation05:35 – Expanding Beyond Monoline: Cyber, Trade Credit & Growth06:15 – NatCAT & Flood Exposures: Rethinking Regional Risk & BI09:54 – Marine War Risk, Geopolitics & Supply Chain Disruption13:06 – How Markel Integrates AI & Data in Underwriting16:28 – The Data Center Boom: Multi-Line Risks & Sovereign AI18:19 – Energy Transition & Mega Projects in MENA20:10 – Financial Discipline: Balancing Growth, Reserves & Pricing23:34 – Specialty Capacity Influx: Acumen vs. Price Wars24:55 – Vision 2030: Why Talent is the Key Differentiator26:40 – Rapid Fire Round: Lessons, Leadership & Personal RisksSubscribe to FS Brew for more conversations with CEOs and experts shaping insurance and insurtech in the Middle East.Renjit Philip:work: https://www.futureu.coNewsletter: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.onemorethinginai.com⁠⁠⁠Socials:Twitter / X: @renjitphilipLinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/renjit-philip⁠⁠⁠Vidya Veerapandian:⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/vidya-veerapandian/⁠ #FSBrew #Insurtech #Insurance #Markel #DIFC #Dubai #MENA #Reinsurance #CyberInsurance #RiskManagement

David Bahnsen, Founder & Managing Partner, The Bahnsen Group From $600mm to $10.5B, David Bahnsen built The Bahnsen Group almost entirely through organic growth. He shares the decisions behind that growth, the value of reinvesting in the business, and why selling to longtime partner Hightower became the right next step. In Summary David Bahnsen left Morgan Stanley in 2015 with eight people and $600mm in client assets, motivated less by dissatisfaction than by what he calls being “intoxicated by the idea of freedom.” Eleven years later, The Bahnsen Group has grown to $10.5B in assets, 106 employees, and 13 offices—with virtually all of that expansion driven organically.  But the more instructive story is how that growth happened. David explains how original content and thought leadership became a powerful source of new business, why attracting clients only matters if the firm can deliver an experience that keeps them, and how continual reinvestment in people, tax, planning, investment management, and family office services helped turn a founder-led practice into a national enterprise. He also shares the thinking behind his decision to sell The Bahnsen Group to Hightower after more than a decade of working within its ecosystem. The transaction gives the firm greater resources for technology, HR, supervision, and future inorganic growth while allowing David to maintain control over the brand, P&L, strategy, and client experience.  The Storyline When David Bahnsen first appeared on the Diamond Podcast in April 2020, The Bahnsen Group was five years removed from its Morgan Stanley breakaway and had grown from $600mm to roughly $2B. Today, the firm manages $10.5B across 13 offices with more than 100 employees. The numbers are notable, but David's approach to building the business provides the real lessons. Rather than pursue acquisitions, The Bahnsen Group built an organic growth engine around content, thought leadership, and a distinct investment philosophy. David's Dividend Cafe now reaches roughly 35,000 subscribers organically, but he is clear that attracting prospective clients was only half of the equation. The firm continually invested in the people, capabilities, and services necessary to deliver on what the content promised.  That philosophy extended to how David structured the business. He chose to keep functions that created what Louis describes as “surplus value” inside the firm while relying on Hightower for areas such as supervision, regulatory support, and technology. At the same time, David resisted the temptation to maximize current margins, instead investing in advisor capacity, planning, tax, investment management, family office capabilities, and infrastructure. The result was a business with significant organic growth and enterprise value. Now the story enters its transact phase. After years of operating within Hightower's ecosystem, David agreed to sell The Bahnsen Group to Hightower. Yet the transaction is less an endpoint than another evolution of the model: Hightower becomes owner while David retains substantial operating autonomy and gains resources to professionalize the firm further and supplement its organic growth with carefully selected acquisitions. It's the full Build, Grow & Transact arc—and an example of what can happen when independence is treated as the beginning of building a business rather than the destination.  Topics Covered How The Bahnsen Group grew from $600mm to $10.5B Building an organic growth engine through content and thought leadership Why attracting clients is only the beginning of sustainable growth Reinvesting profits to build long-term enterprise value Creating advisor capacity without sacrificing the client relationship Deciding what capabilities to own versus outsource Why maximizing margins can limit the business you ultimately build The evolution of David's relationship with Hightower Why Hightower became the natural buyer of The Bahnsen Group Preserving autonomy and continuity after a transaction Balancing organic growth with future acquisitions Why independence can be a starting point rather than an end goal > Download a transcript of this episode… Listen and Learn Highlights for Advisors Why freedom – not dissatisfaction – drove the breakaway. [04:44]David explains why he left Morgan Stanley despite being successful and well served there. The appeal was ownership: the ability to control how the business operated, how clients were served, and what the firm could ultimately become. How authentic content became an organic growth engine. [09:34]What began as written market updates during the 2008 financial crisis eventually evolved into Dividend Cafe, books, television, podcasts, and other thought leadership. David explains why the content works precisely because attracting clients was never its primary purpose. Why attracting clients isn't enough. [15:59]A strong content engine can create interest, but the business still needs to deliver. David describes the continual investment in planners, tax capabilities, investment management, family office services, and client experience that allowed the firm to retain and serve the clients its content attracted. Knowing what creates “surplus value.” [22:03]David and Louis discuss the importance of identifying what a firm does exceptionally well and what is better handled by an outside partner. For The Bahnsen Group, that meant keeping investment management, business development, branding, and the client experience close while outsourcing functions such as supervision, regulatory support, and technology. Why maximizing income and building enterprise value are different objectives. [25:08–35:26]David explains why he has continually reinvested in the firm rather than optimizing margins, while Louis connects that philosophy to a recurring Build, Grow & Transact theme: owners willing to sacrifice some current income can create capacity, growth, and greater enterprise value over time. How the advisor role changes in a scalable enterprise. [29:15]With advisors limited to roughly 80 households, The Bahnsen Group surrounds them with planning, tax, estate, operations, marketing, content, and business development resources so they can concentrate on client relationships. David also explains why he believes the industry has more of an “opening business” problem than a closing problem. Why Hightower became the buyer. [37:09]David wasn't looking to sell. He explains why maintaining control over the brand, P&L, hiring, strategy, and business was non-negotiable—and how Hightower structured a transaction that preserved that autonomy while adding resources the firm needs for its next phase. Why inorganic growth is now entering the picture. [44:01]At $10.5B, the law of large numbers changes what 30% growth requires. David explains why acquisitions will become a supplement to—not a replacement for—the firm's organic growth engine, with cultural fit playing a critical role in the strategy. Why independence was always the beginning. [50:51]David never viewed breaking away as the achievement itself. Independence gave him the ability to build the business he envisioned, and he now sees the Hightower transaction as the beginning of another phase of that journey. Key Takeaways Organic growth is more than business development. The Bahnsen Group's content creates awareness and opportunity, but its growth has been sustained by building the capabilities necessary to deliver an increasingly sophisticated client experience. Enterprise value often requires sacrificing current income. Hiring ahead of need, expanding services, creating capacity, and investing in infrastructure may compress margins today while building a stronger and more valuable business over time. Scale should support relationships, not replace them. David rejects the idea that client relationships themselves can be scaled indefinitely. Instead, the firm scales the resources surrounding its advisors so those advisors can remain focused on clients. Outsourcing can be a strategic advantage. The goal is not necessarily to own every capability. David's approach is to retain the functions where the firm has passion, expertise, or differentiation and leverage outside scale for others. The right transaction can preserve what already works. David's decision to sell was contingent on maintaining meaningful control over the brand, strategy, P&L, and operating model rather than changing the formula that created the firm's growth. Organic and inorganic growth don't have to be competing strategies. The next phase will combine The Bahnsen Group's existing organic engine with selective acquisitions designed to add scale without creating a collection of disconnected businesses. Independence is a means, not necessarily an end. The larger lesson from David's story is that independence created the freedom to build. What mattered afterward was how that freedom was used. https://youtu.be/_s8MFJtrbS0 Quotable Moments “I was very intoxicated by the idea of freedom.” — David Bahnsen [04:44] “Relationships don't scale.” — David Bahnsen [29:15] “Twenty cents of something big is a lot more than 40% of something small.” — David Bahnsen [33:31] “I did not want to go to independence as an ending point. It was a beginning.” — David Bahnsen [50:51] FAQs How did The Bahnsen Group grow from $600mm to $10.5B? The firm's growth was overwhelmingly organic. David attributes much of the business development engine to original content and thought leadership, supported by continual investment in advisors, planning, tax, investment management, family office capabilities, and the broader client experience. How did content creation contribute to The Bahnsen Group's growth? David began writing regular market commentary during the 2008 financial crisis. After becoming independent, he developed that work into Dividend Cafe and expanded into books, television, video, and podcasts. Dividend Cafe now has approximately 35,000 subscribers, which David says were acquired organically. Why does David Bahnsen believe in reinvesting in a wealth management business? Rather than maximizing current profit margins, David has invested in people and capabilities when he believes they will improve the client experience or create a better environment for advisors. His philosophy favors building a larger, more durable enterprise over extracting the maximum amount of current income. Why did David Bahnsen sell The Bahnsen Group to Hightower? David says he was not actively looking to sell. The transaction became attractive once Hightower was willing to preserve the firm's autonomy while providing additional resources in areas including HR, technology, AI, supervision, and future inorganic growth. Will The Bahnsen Group continue to operate independently after the Hightower transaction? According to David, the firm will operate as a wholly owned independent subsidiary. He expects to retain authority over the P&L, hiring and firing, strategy, branding, and other core aspects of the business while drawing more extensively on Hightower's resources. How will The Bahnsen Group grow after the Hightower transaction? David expects organic growth to remain the foundation. However, as the firm becomes larger, he plans to supplement that growth with selective acquisitions and advisor additions that fit The Bahnsen Group's system and culture rather than simply aggregating assets. What can financial advisors learn from David Bahnsen's independence journey? His experience illustrates the importance of defining what independence is intended to accomplish. For David, leaving the wirehouse was not the destination; it provided the control necessary to invest, create, hire, build services, and develop an enterprise around the client experience. The firm's growth was overwhelmingly organic. David attributes much of the business development engine to original content and thought leadership, supported by continual investment in advisors, planning, tax, investment management, family office capabilities, and the broader client experience. David began writing regular market commentary during the 2008 financial crisis. After becoming independent, he developed that work into Dividend Cafe and expanded into books, television, video, and podcasts. Dividend Cafe now has approximately 35,000 subscribers, which David says were acquired organically. Rather than maximizing current profit margins, David has invested in people and capabilities when he believes they will improve the client experience or create a better environment for advisors. His philosophy favors building a larger, more durable enterprise over extracting the maximum amount of current income. David says he was not actively looking to sell. The transaction became attractive once Hightower was willing to preserve the firm's autonomy while providing additional resources in areas including HR, technology, AI, supervision, and future inorganic growth. According to David, the firm will operate as a wholly owned independent subsidiary. He expects to retain authority over the P&L, hiring and firing, strategy, branding, and other core aspects of the business while drawing more extensively on Hightower's resources. David expects organic growth to remain the foundation. However, as the firm becomes larger, he plans to supplement that growth with selective acquisitions and advisor additions that fit The Bahnsen Group's system and culture rather than simply aggregating assets. His experience illustrates the importance of defining what independence is intended to accomplish. For David, leaving the wirehouse was not the destination; it provided the control necessary to invest, create, hire, build services, and develop an enterprise around the client experience. Related Resources The RIA Builder's Blueprint How the Freedom to Communicate During a Crisis and Beyond Translated to 4x Growth for this ex-Morgan Stanley Team Mentioned in This Episode Dividend CaféThe Bahnsen GroupHightower David L. Bahnsen Founder, Managing Partner, and Chief Investment Officer David L. Bahnsen is the founder, Managing Partner, and Chief Investment Officer of The Bahnsen Group, a national private wealth management firm with offices in Newport Beach, New York City, Bend, Nashville, Minneapolis, Austin, Phoenix, West Palm Beach, Dallas, and Grand Rapids, managing over $10 billion in client assets. Prior to launching The Bahnsen Group, he spent eight years as a Managing Director at Morgan Stanley and six years as a Vice President at UBS. He is consistently named one of the top financial advisors in America by Barron's, Forbes, and the Financial Times. He is a frequent guest on CNBC, Bloomberg, Fox News, and Fox Business, and is a regular contributor to National Review. He hosts the popular weekly podcast, Capital Record, dedicated to a defense of free enterprise and capital markets. He writes a weekly macro commentary at dividendcafe.com. David is a founding Trustee for Pacifica Christian High School of Orange County and serves on the Board of Directors for the Acton Institute, National Review, and Hightower Advisors. He is the author of several best-selling books including Crisis of Responsibility: Our Cultural Addiction to Blame and How You Can Cure It (2018), There's No Free Lunch: 250 Economic Truths (2021), and Full-Time: Work and the Meaning of Life (2024). His newest book, Profit from the Profit: The Past, Present & Future of Dividend Growth Investing, was released in August 2026. David's true passions include anything related to USC football, the financial markets, and politics. His ultimate passions are his wife of 24 years, Joleen, their children, Mitchell, Sadie, and Graham, and the life they've created together on both coasts. NOTE: The views and opinions expressed by the guests on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Diamond Consultants. Neither Diamond Consultants nor the guests on this podcast are compensated in any way for their participation. View the transcript of this episode… Build, Grow & Transact: David Bahnsen on Building a $10.5B Business Worth Selling A conversation with Louis Diamond and David Bahnsen, Founder & Managing Partner of The Bahnsen Group.     Louis Diamond: Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast series for financial advisors. Today’s episode is Build, Grow & Transact: David Bahnsen on Building a $10.5B Business Worth Selling. It’s a conversation with the founder and managing partner of the Bahnsen Group. I’m Louis Diamond, and this is the Diamond Podcast for Financial Advisors. Mindy Diamond: At Diamond Consultants, we help elite advisors identify the right environment for their businesses to thrive, whether that’s at a wirehouse, boutique or independent firm. With nearly three decades of experience, we’ve guided thousands of advisors and represented more than a quarter of a trillion dollars in assets transitioned. And each year, one in four advisors managing a billion dollars or more who change firms are our clients. Our process is education-driven and based on building relationships, starting as your strategic partner well before you’re even thinking of a move. To schedule a confidential conversation, call us at 908-879-1002. Wondering why advisors change firms and where they’re headed? Are transition deals going up or down? Those very questions and more inspired us to create our annual Advisor Transition Report. It’s the award-winning, data-driven resource designed for advisors that connects the dots between the motivations around movement and the firm’s appetite for top talent. Arm yourself with the knowledge you need to make smart decisions. Download your copy at diamond-consultants.com/transitionreport. Louis Diamond: There’s a big difference between breaking away to create a better version of the business you already have and breaking away because you see an entirely different business you want to build. And I think that distinction becomes even more important as we look at what creates real enterprise value in the wealth management industry today. My guest, David Bahnsen, is a pretty remarkable example. David first joined us in April of 2020, five years after leaving Morgan Stanley with eight people and 600 million in assets. At that time, the Bahnsen Group had grown to roughly two billion. Today, it’s a $10.5 billion business with more than 100 people and 13 offices across the country. Perhaps the most interesting part of that growth story is that virtually all of it has been organic. David didn’t build the firm by buying AUM. He built it by creating an authentic voice, an incredibly effective content engine, investing heavily back into the business, adding services clients actually wanted, and being very deliberate about what his team should own versus what was better outsourced. There’s a lot in that playbook for any advisor who wants to build a business with real enterprise value. But David’s story also gives us something we often don’t get to examine, the full build, grow, and transact arc. For more than a decade, Hightower went from employer to service provider while David maintained ownership and control of the business. Now, the Bahnsen Group is being sold to Hightower, giving David additional resources to pursue the next stage of growth while preserving much of what made the firm successful in the first place. So we get into the decisions behind that extraordinary organic growth, why maximizing current income can work against building long-term enterprise value, how David thinks about content, clients, and scale, and ultimately why someone who was once intoxicated by the idea of freedom decided the next right move was to transact. It’s a great case study in what can happen when independence becomes a starting point rather than the destination. So let’s get to it. David, thank you for coming on our show again. David Bahnsen: Well, it’s wonderful to be back with you. I love listening to the show every week. Louis Diamond: Oh, there you go. Just flattering us now. So for anyone who probably, myself included, doesn’t remember the last time you were on our show, it was April of 2020, a time warp into a crazy time. It was the five-year anniversary of your breakaway in the very, very beginning of the pandemic. Then you still had an amazing business, two billion in assets. But for listeners who may have missed it, and even just to catch us up, can you give us the quick version of your origin story of leaving Morgan Stanley in 2015 with 600 million and eight people and why you did it, just the speed round of compressing a stressful and very important time in your business arc? David Bahnsen: So I was one of those people that in an almost cliche, typical way, the types of folks that your business deals with all the time, left because I wanted independence. I wasn’t unhappy at Morgan Stanley. I wasn’t in need of any particular change, but I was very intoxicated by the idea of freedom and became very committed to the idea that if I were going to run my own business, I needed to run my own business. It started in 2014. We made our official exit in early 2015. And as you said, there were eight people, all of which were folks on my team at Morgan Stanley and 600 million of client assets, and we basically moved 100% of that. When I was on the podcast, April 2020, it’s funny when you were saying that, I can visualize myself at my home office at that point in time in Southern California recording this. And we would’ve been our five-year anniversary, couple billion, so we had a little bit over tripled. We probably had, if I remember correctly at that time, 25, 30 employees. And it’s interesting the linear arc of it, because you fast-forward now, we’re at 10.5 billion and 106 employees. And so it’s just proportionate, the AUM and the headcount and the time gone by, it’s been a very nice, steady arc. But I really loved the idea of being independent. I turned 40 years old in 2014 when I began the extensive due diligence that led to me leaving Morgan Stanley. And it really was that moment that I said, “If I’m going to stay as a corner office guy at a wirehouse, I will stay at Morgan Stanley forever.” I had no issues there. My manager at the time is still, to this day, my best friend in the world. We’re like brothers. I just dedicated my new book to him. I wasn’t unhappy with Morgan. I just liked the idea of having my own business and haven’t looked back since. Louis Diamond: Amazing. Seems like it was probably a pretty good move based upon what you shared, but I think it’s an interesting perspective because I feel like I’m starting to see that more and more is the profile of the advisor who doesn’t have these intense pain points and is relatively well served, is going to be successful, knows how to operate at their firm, but they just want something more. There’s an intangible that staying isn’t going to solve for them. For many, it’s being a business owner, like the path you took. For others it’s, hey, I just want to be recharged. I don’t want to be static. I want something different. I want to monetize. I want to work in a bit of a different way. I think you’re early on that trend, to be honest with you. You were probably right in the middle, even probably even the beginning innings of the independent movement, and I am very excited to dig into how you got from 600 million in 2015 to over 10.5 billion, 11-ish years later. So let’s jump to today, and we’ll spend some time going through dissecting that growth. But today, like you said, 10 and a half billion under management, 100 plus people, 13 offices, including Santa Barbara where you just opened, but Newport Beach, New York City, Nashville, Tennessee, Palm Beach. It’s a real national firm. And I read that you’ve grown over 30% organically over the last decade. So when you look at the firm now versus 2015, what stands out the most? Let’s really dive into that. David Bahnsen: Well, a lot of this is where we’re going to end up going later in the conversation with where I see the next iteration of the company. But when you talk about the last 10 years, it has been the textbook definition of organic growth. There are 13 offices open and zero of them came by acquisition or merger or purchase. We’ve hired two or three advisors out of our 26 advisors that had a little bit of a book, but I mean under 100 million. We never paid for it. I’m talking about hiring people. But you’re looking at an organic story, and I am proud of that, but I also recognize that it wasn’t intentional. And what I mean by that is I didn’t have this strategy in 2014, ’15 where I said, if I can just go independent, I have this evil genius behind me that is going to drive a mousetrap that will get me up to 10.5 Billion. I’ve been as surprised, as many outside observers, but I have a lot of gratitude for it. I understand now why it has worked, and I think that there are people inside of our business that are a little more qualified to understand how the business works than people who are outside of it. Your consultants and professional investors are very smart at what they do, but they don’t necessarily always understand that advisor-client dynamic. And I get why we’ve been successful with it. But I also don’t want to take credit for it as if it were this master strategy. We just tried things and those things that worked, we kept doing more of, and this is where we are. A lot of it, and I spoke to Mindy about this six years ago, it’s been content creation, thought leadership, and the voice that, much to my surprise, has attracted people and never doing it for the purpose of attracting people. This very natural and sincere delivery of a belief system about markets, about the economy, about the world around us, I share things sometimes about my faith, politics in a public square. I’m on television, this podcast. And then the major driver is the written word, which some people might be shocked to hear as we’re talking about a podcast still even exists. But my weekly Dividend Cafe, which is my weekly market commentary, is up to 35,000 subscribers, 100% organic. We’ve never done anything to get any subscribers. And our video and our podcast and everything, the books I write, the television hits, they all have their audience. But most of it goes through that written word. That’s where I get to connect with people that if they like me, they may end up becoming a client. And if they don’t, they won’t, but that’s really been our story though. Louis Diamond: That’s absolutely amazing. There’s so much to unpack there. That amount of growth without anything inorganic, especially the way this industry is going, I don’t think I’ve ever heard that before. That’s amazing in and of itself. But just the way you can track back your meteoric rise to content creation, I think for many listening, it’s either, “Oh my God, that seems so daunting and so crazy.” Others would be like, “Well, I can’t do that, but that sounds great. Of course, he’s been able to grow because he can have an original voice.” As a firm that puts out a lot of original content, podcasts written, Mindy wrote a book, white papers, et cetera, I know the amount of work and dedication and commitment it takes to stick with that for so long. So if you don’t mind, can we double-click into that written word story? How did you get started with it and what’s been the arc or the growth journey? Someone who’s listening who would love to do that, where did you get started? You didn’t just all of a sudden have a book and show up on TV. How did you get started? David Bahnsen: In the truest sense of the word, I grew up loving writing. My father died in his 40s and I was only 20, but he was an intellectual, a brilliant writer, had several books, and I was a nerd in high school. Luckily, I had basketball so that I could still meet a girl here and there and have friends on the team. But I mean, if it were up to me, I would’ve been home reading books and writing papers, and I would turn in extra credit papers more than I would study for a test because I loved writing. So the written thing was there. I don’t know if I was ever good at it or not, but I know I loved doing it, and I would credit my late father with the early seeds of that. When the financial crisis happened in September, the actual week of Lehman’s bankruptcy, September of ’08, about three, four days later, Morgan Stanley’s credit default swaps were blowing out, and now it was not just the market was crashing every day. And of course at that point, Merrill had gone down, AIG had gone down. We were in this cascade, and everybody who lived through it remembers it all well. I remember every detail of it like it were yesterday. But all that happened was once I got my 80th call about what the hell was going on with Morgan, I decided to write up a piece, not send it to compliance for approval and send it out to everyone. And if the firm was at risk of not making it for another day, I wasn’t especially worried about compliance getting mad at me at the time. And I did that, and then a couple days later did it again, just broad update on everything going on, and I never stopped doing it. That’s what it was, just every Friday since September 2008. And then when we left Morgan, at some point along the way I started getting compliance approval and getting a bit more of an audience. We had hundreds of clients that were reading it, and we’d have a few guests that would ask to be signed up as clients were forwarding it around, but that was it. It didn’t have a website, it didn’t have a subscribe feature, it wasn’t a real blog or anything like that. So then in going independent, I was able to incubate it, and we branded it as Dividend Cafe. We’re Dividend Growth investors at my firm. So we put a brand around it. We had a website, and I think we started a podcast and video that was becoming a very large medium around the mid-tens as well, and so we added that shortly later, but it was just because I had the freedom to do it. And then I did do some hit on CNBC like Asia or CNBC World or something. It wasn’t anything with a big audience, but then we sent the clip to someone at Fox and they really liked it, and then they had me, and then I started getting invited more regularly. So now the TV thing was happening, and I always say that TV can be a really good thing for a very small number of people. Obviously, Josh Brown has been incredibly successful with it. He’s very good at it, and it’s done okay. It’s done well for me, but it’s different than people think. You do not go on TV and then get done and all of a sudden the phone rang and someone said, “I saw you. You’re so handsome. I want you to be my advisor.” What it does is it might drive them to other content. It might drive them to the internet where they’re going to find other things about you. And if my name was David Johnson instead of David Bahnsen, I think I would’ve got lost in the SEO and nothing would’ve come of it. I really believe that. But it enabled some people that liked what they heard on TV to start following me in other more substantive and perpetual mediums. And then in 2017, I wrote a book that I wouldn’t have been able to write at Morgan Stanley. I had very strong opinions about the origins of the financial crisis. And I did not believe the left-wing narrative that it was caused by unfettered markets, and I didn’t really believe the right-wing narrative entirely either that it was exclusively caused by government intervention. I believed that all of those things were true but were missing this cultural and moral component about Main Street. I wrote a book on it and I thought there might be 200 clients of my firm that would read it, and it ended up being a bestseller, and that created more television invitations and just to a slightly larger audience. And at this point now, I realized that all of these things were dovetailed together, content, the mediums, coming to Dividend Cafe, coming to an authentic point of view about markets. And then, and this is the thing that is so important because of what you do and do so well in your business and within the kind of practitioners that listen, it wasn’t enough to have a mousetrap that drew people to us. We had to keep them. We had to deliver an advisory experience, and so we were just relentlessly reinvesting back in the business, adding planners, adding tax, adding more investment sophistication, family office, just improving our business, and that’s why we’ve added so much to headcount because we have just constantly wanted to really be what we were attracting people to. Louis Diamond: It’s amazing. The key themes I heard there, there’s a lot, but is it’s not one thing that works. It’s a coordinated strategy. I can attest to that for the content work that we do. There isn’t one single point of growth that comes from content creation. It’s everything working together. You don’t know, especially in this day and age, how people consume information or how a message gets across to them, whether they’re a reader, whether they find you in AI, whether they watch video, whether they saw CNBC in their barbershop. So I think that’s absolutely amazing, and congratulations. Let’s talk a little bit about your breakaway setup, if you will. So when you broke in 2015, you signed on with Hightower, but in a bit of a different way, certainly different than today. You paid Hightower an override on your revenue, or basis points and assets, to be on their platform. But you owned 100% of your business, ran your own P&L, and they provided certain services to you. Thinking back to 2015, and then even up until your recent decision to sell to Hightower, why did you structure it that way rather than under their brand or as an employee or even just having your own RIA, especially given your size and scale? David Bahnsen: There’s actually one piece missing there. You may not have known, but I think is important to the story. When we came in 2015, we were employees and they had a 50/50 net model, and we joined in that capacity. And then when they recapped in 2017, brought a new investor on, eventually changed CEO about a year later, at that point, we were growing. I felt very comfortable with the independent space. I now knew what I didn’t know. I knew what I thought they did well, and I knew what I thought we could do well, and I took advantage of that moment to say, “Guys, I need to be on my own. We need to run our own firm, our own finances, our own payroll, our own brand.” And what the investors wanted at that time was some sort of affiliation that they could count on and not be vulnerable, but I didn’t want to sell and I wanted full control. So I got control, much better control than I had had in my first couple years, and they got a extension of agreement of these services that they could feel good I was going to be a part of their ecosystem. And the cash flows were pretty meaningful as we grew from, at that point, a billion to over 10 billion, and we became obviously a very meaningful contributor to their earnings and revenues. And the CEO who came in was the second CEO in the history of the company. And they now have a third, but that individual, Bob Oros, I knew well because he had been at Fidelity when I chose Fidelity as our primary custodian. Bob and I got along very well. And so over the years, there’d be things that we had impediments that we had to work through, and we worked through them just like adults, like businessmen and women and got stuff done. So it was a good relationship. But we were really quite independent. Very few of my people that worked at Bahnsen Group even knew who Hightower was because we had our own brand, we had our own investment process, the HR, the payroll. And unlike a lot of the other platform teams, they didn’t have too many platform teams, but ours, the accounts payable were massive. I mean, we had to have a whole finance department just because of our growth. So it became a difficult thing for them at this stage to have such a meaningful company within their ecosystem not aligned and not harmonized within the economic model of the rest of the firm. But I would say that decision for 2017 until this year, I don’t regret it at all. Hightower doesn’t regret it at all. They benefited immensely from this growth we’ve gone through, and I very much desired that freedom. Look, if I’m being very candid, Louis, you brought up why didn’t go on my own ADV? At the time in ’14 and ’15, I didn’t know enough. I didn’t understand. And I met with Focus, I met with Dynasty, I met with some others, and you just meet with different people, hear the stories, and the one I went with was Hightower, and there’s pros and cons to all the models. It’s one of the things I wasn’t joking at the beginning. I listen to your guys’ show every week. I’m a sucker for everything happening in our industry. I hear the stories of different successful advisors, and every one of them resonate with me in one way. There might be nine ways it doesn’t resonate, but one way that does because there’s always something that each person’s looking for that some of us can connect with. And at the time, I didn’t know what I didn’t know, but I felt good about the Hightower story, went in that path, and I would argue that we got the best of all worlds in that 2017 to 2026 story because we really got to function independently. We were under their corporate RIA, but other than that, felt very independent. And that’s a testimony to Hightower that they honored that autonomy, but I think it gave me the entrepreneurial thing I needed, and I’m grateful for it. Louis Diamond: Fantastic. So let’s say from the 2017 to 2026 timeframe when you decided to finally sell to Hightower, how did you weigh the leverage that outsourcing certain things provided your business versus paying a fee, obviously, more than what it cost Hightower and not having complete and utter control over your business? How do you track that to your growth, if at all? David Bahnsen: The criteria was always anything we like doing or are good at doing, we’re going to do it, whether Hightower offers it or not. So for example, I’m sitting here in a beautiful office. We have the 31st floor of a building on 54th Street and 6th Avenue, and Hightower has a whole facilities department. We’ve done 13 office leases with no involvement from their facilities department because my wife loves designing the offices. She’s an interior designer. My team loved picking our own locations. I didn’t find negotiating with a broker all that hard. So we were able to do it, we liked it, so we did it. But then the supervision side, the regulatory side, and candidly, a lot of the technology side, which is where some of our talk is about to go in terms of the new transaction, those things I felt more comfortable outsourcing to Hightower who had entire departments and resources geared towards it. And we would do them if we had to, but we weren’t passionate about it. I didn’t want to go understand all the nooks and crannies of the regulatory apparatus. So that was part of their ecosystem, and we were happy to utilize their services there. Investing money, financial facilities, the business development mousetrap we built, those things we were good at, and so we held onto that, and that’s how we viewed the division of labor. Every firm, RIA, IBD, a wire, W, it doesn’t matter. Everyone who optimizes this challenge of doing what you like and not doing what you don’t like is going to grow. It’s hard to do. It’s easier said than done, but that’s the challenge right there. Louis Diamond: I absolutely love that. I think it’s so true, knowing what’s actually going to add surplus value relative to the amount of time you’re doing versus what’s commoditized or back of house or isn’t something that lights you up. Because there’s plenty of RIAs that I’ve interviewed or that I know where they enjoy building technology, they like designing their own compliance organization, and to them, that’s their superpower. That’s what makes them different. For you, it sounds like it was very clear. You knew exactly what you wanted to do. As long as you’re able to still do it, you’re very comfortable with outsourcing certain things that would’ve been a distraction or something that you and your team weren’t world-class at. I want to talk a little bit about some of the deliberate choices you made to take the business from, I would assume it was you as the rainmaker, and now you said you have over 25 advisors. So just thinking about hiring, structuring the business, investing in the business and platform, because I’m sure you’ve had the temptation, maybe not because you’re a business builder, but I think a lot of people love, “Hey, I can make a ton of money if I don’t make that second, third, 125th hire, and instead I just take cash flow. I don’t necessarily need this person. I can make more money or distribute more to my partners.” So I’d love to hear a little bit about some of the deliberate choices you made on hiring and investing in your business. David Bahnsen: There’s two things that I am very hesitant to take credit for, even though they’re true. You had mentioned before when we left in 2014 that we were early innings of wirehouse defections to the independent movement. I was early, but I wasn’t a first inning guy. The real trailblazers were going in 2006, 2007, 2009. 2014 is a lot earlier than those that have gone in the last two or three years, but I was like a third or fourth inning guy, and I don’t deserve credit to be a first inning guy. The other issue is that I reinvest in the business constantly and have not been greedy about maximizing all the margin, but that is easy to say once you’ve already scaled the business, right? You’re already in a place where things are going very well, and then from there, deciding you just really want to run the business the way you want to run it. It’s not as selfless a decision as people may think. It was a luxury. And at the same time, I cannot tell you how bizarre I think it is when people are focusing on maximizing margin versus running the business that they want to have. It’s a high-margin business. There is not a lot of operating leverage in it. More or less, not completely, but more or less expenses go up in proportion to revenue. Particularly for us opening new offices and hiring a lot of new people, our biggest overhead far and away is people. And we started an ETF a couple years ago and I got a chance to learn the polar opposite where my business has tons of pricing power and very little operating leverage and asset management has unbelievable operating leverage. I basically have zero dollars of expenses on my next dollar of revenue, but no pricing power. Louis Diamond: So interesting. David Bahnsen: Yeah. I mean, it really is just two different business models. When we have hired more people, we’ve always done it based on are we going to serve our clients better and enjoy running our business better with these people? We don’t want wasteful positions, but we want the maximum optimization for how to service clients and how to give advisors an ecosystem to function in. So a one-to-one operations to advisor, having planners that are not the client-facing advisor themselves, but are devoted to the behind the scenes planning process. Having a full tax department that does not provide tax services to non-wealth clients, that is only there, a robust tax consulting, tax preparation, tax advisory arm to drive a better client experience for us. These things all erode at margin, and I wouldn’t do it any other way. And the biggest thing, by the way, is the investment management, because then you’re not just talking about profit margin. We’re talking about time. I am a 3:45 AM guy every day because we’re inside markets. We have analysts, traders, investment folks. I think it’s something like 10 or 11 people on the org chart. It costs me millions of dollars a year for us to manage money in-house. There’s no justification for that other than it’s what we want to do, what we believe in. And those that have a outsourced Vanguard DFA-type model, I have no criticism of it in the world, but it just wasn’t us, and so we had to do what we liked doing. Louis Diamond: Yep. And once again, the authenticity shines through. Can we talk a little bit about the financial advice part of the business? I would assume when you’re at Morgan Stanley, you were probably the driver of growth, you were serving personally probably every client or just about all of them. Today, with 10 and a half billion, 25 advisors, just the immense scale of the organization, how do advisors advise? Are you still providing financial advice to clients directly? Are you more of just the CEO, the rainmaker, the strategist? I mean, how do you think about, I guess, allocating clients to your advisors? How have you grown your capacity for financial advice? David Bahnsen: So our leverage is entirely limited by my ability to find like-minded advisors who can go deliver our client experience and be in relationship to clients. It’s why I’m not a big believer in this notion of scalability. I think technology helps scale. I think there’s all kinds of processes you can do more efficiently, but it’s a relationship business and relationships don’t scale. And we have an internal policy philosophy preference, if you will, that no advisor will cover more than 80 households. And so for us to continue growing at the number of households, number of AUM, and therefore number of revenues, all those numbers, of course, have some proportionate relationship with one another, we have to have the advisors to do it. And so as we find advisors that can not drool on themselves and be professionals and deliver an experience to clients, we want them to be generalists. We want them to be very good at what they do, but we don’t want them entering trades. We don’t want them doing their own operations work. We don’t want them having to pick stocks. We’re providing this ecosystem of the tax, the planning, the estate, the operations, the content, the marketing, and the biz dev. They don’t have to go try to rainmake at their kid’s soccer game or join the chamber of commerce or things like that. That we believe we have enough internal biz dev opportunity that what they need to do is cultivate the relationships with the prospective clients we give them. They do have to close that business, but our industry, for all of the talk about this, people diagnose it wrong. We do not have a problem with closing business in our industry. We have a problem with opening business. And so the sourcing is the issue. And for whatever reason, it’s a mystery to me, it’s been a mystery for 27 years, I’ve been pretty good at sourcing business. And so we can share that with our advisors and then expect them to, their job when they wake up and go to bed and everything in between is to be in relationship with clients. Louis Diamond: If I think about, just think of 20 highly successful RIAs and think of some of the biggest and best names in the space, I think a critical connection point or commonality for all those firms is they’ve somehow figured out lead flow or some mechanism or capacity to bring in clients for their advisors. To me, that’s the truly only scalable way to keep adding advisors and growing a business is if there’s enough inbound lead flow that’s cultivated or created by the firm to really feed all the different advisors, and it’s not snap our fingers and it happens. But if you compare that to many other models, the wirehouse model where it’s all on the advisors to go out and find clients, that’s great. And if you find some amazing rainmakers, amazing, and it’s additive, et cetera, but you eventually hit a ceiling because it’s hard to find advisors who have that knack. You’re not bringing in the ideal client every time, and it’s an unpredictable way to grow. So I think I wouldn’t gloss over the fact that you’ve been able to create enough inbound traffic or lead flow through all of your content and thought leadership that you’re able to sustain that type of model. Because it is the best way to grow a business is keep your advisors focused on just being advisors, solve for organic growth, solve for the other things they have to do. And then when you open up a new market or hire an advisor, boom, you got capacity, you got someone trained up, and it’s predictable, your close rate and your ability to scale it from there. So I’ll get off my soapbox, but I think that’s such an important element of the biggest and best and most valuable firms in our industry today. David Bahnsen: I agree with you a thousand percent. And even if you put numbers around it, somebody who has to go make their own rain and service the client, they will expect, if you use wirehouse-like grids around it, this is just round numbers, I know you could turn a knob a little bit, but I view the business as more or less it costs something in the range of 40 cents of a dollar revenue to run the business. There’s 20 cents available to the owner, 20 cents to the person who makes rain and 20 cents to the person servicing the client. It’s back of napkin math. If you are a wirehouse advisor, you’re making the rain and servicing the client, you’re getting two of the 20 cents, you’re getting 40 cents, let’s say. And if you’re the person who owns the business and makes the rain and is the advisor, you can make 60 cents on the dollar. That’s a wonderful margin, and you cap out at a certain level where you just cannot grow any further. I would rather make 20 cents on where we are now. My advisors would rather make 20 cents on where they are because 20 cents of something big is a lot more than 40% of something small. And again, and my numbers are, I’m rounding, but you get the idea. That’s really the kind of business model we’ve done here. Louis Diamond: I think it’s brilliant. And some would argue about the percentages and would say, oh, it costs 40 cents to 30 cents to run a business and we have a small team, but I think philosophically that’s exactly right. And I think something you said too, which is there’s been a common thread in our “Build, Grow, Transact” series. You think about Jason Fertitta of Americana Partners or Matt Kilgroe from Cyndeo and many others that we’ve had or will have, it’s really playing the long game. No one we’ve had on the show is optimizing for how much money can I make this year, next year or the year after. It’s the intentional decisions to invest in capacity, invest in growth, and by choice take less as the owner of the business, but doing it because what you’re building is enterprise value that will sell at a dramatic multiple of that growth and have room to run. So I think that’s the big thing is, again, it sounds easy, it sounds great, but it’s not an easy decision to say, “Hey, I’m going to make less money today and over the next few years because I want to hire the next person or invest in an organic growth funnel.” That’s discipline, for sure. But I think it’s a great takeaway for anyone listening is play the long game, invest where it makes sense, and the riches will follow you later. They don’t have to follow you today or tomorrow. David Bahnsen: And it’s a whole business of playing the long game, not only in the value creation and enterprise value of being independent. But even for wirehouse advisors, I remember back as I was entering the business, that debate about fee-based business versus transactional, and all it was, are you going to play the long game or get more money quickly? There’s temptations in both ways. There’s goals, there’s overhead, reality. Anyone who played the long game in that story from 30 years ago benefited immensely. And now you see it, of course, in what we’re talking about here, playing the long game in the way you run your business has just been the smartest thing anybody could do. Louis Diamond: Absolutely. Especially in this industry where each new client that’s brought on, there’s a lifetime value of a client. That success compounds with market appreciation, with them adding new monies, and then ultimately they’re going to give you referrals hopefully. And then over time, that’s where the real money is. It’s the compounding nature of doing the next right thing rather than, we’ll say, taking a shortcut or not making that investment in the business. I have a ton more questions for you on this topic, but I want to spend enough time on your important decision to sell the business, sell the Bahnsen Group to Hightower in April of 2026. So after more than a decade of being an employee of Hightower, being affiliated with them but really owning your own business, you decided to not just sell the business, but to sell it to the very platform that you’re operating on. So can you just talk about that decision? Why was 2026 the right time? Why did you decide to stay with Hightower rather than any of the other 100 acquirers or a random private equity firm that would love to buy a business that’s growing 30% per year? David Bahnsen: It’s interesting to think about as our deal gets ready to close here at the end of September, if I had gone out and run a process, if I was looking to sell, would I have been interested in conversations with others? And I don’t know the answer to that because I wasn’t looking to sell. There was nothing broken, in my mind, in what we were doing. But when Hightower and her investors came to me, the entire conversation centered not around what we needed and wanted to be a seller, but on what we didn’t want or couldn’t have. And I’ll share the story because I haven’t shared it publicly with anyone. As we were having conversations about a variety of things in the relationship between Hightower and the Bahnsen Group and Hightower’s investor and so forth, there were a couple of different meetings and things and we ended up having a pretty significant meeting in person in their conference rooms here in Midtown. And I’ve had seven eye surgeries, and I have challenges with my eyes and there are all these numbers up on a screen in the conference room. I couldn’t see any of them. And it occurred to me that there was an offer on the screen they wanted to buy the business. We had not discussed that. And I turned to the folks and said, “I don’t really know exactly what it says, but I just want to make something very clear to save time and drive our conversation constructively. There’s no amount of money that I would sell for if I can’t be fully in charge of what we’re doing. Our brand, our business, our autonomy is what I care most about. If there’s a way to have that, protect it, enhance it and do a commercial transaction, I’m open to it.” And I didn’t really think that would be possible, but I will say to their credit, they did not want to interfere with that autonomy and what they believe to be a successful formula inside our company at all. And so while they’re doing a lot right now to build their Hightower Signature Wealth brand, both internally and externally, and are coming up on $50 billion of assets that they’ll have moved onto that platform in trying to create more centralization and consolidation, which I think has a lot of commercial rationalization behind it, what they’re looking to do with the Bahnsen Group is have a wholly owned independent subsidiary where I still have plenary authority to run the business, control of the P&L, hiring and firing, strategy, branding, and yet the resources of Hightower at my disposal more now in the HR front. That gets a little trickier with 106 people that will soon be 150 than it was when it was 20. I’m committed, Louis, to knowing every one of my employees’ names forever and it’s getting harder, but luckily I have a pretty good memory. But the technology side, the AI moment, the way in which a tech stack all intersects, I hate this stuff. And they not only are good at it and like it, but are heavily invested in it. And so it felt to me like if they’re really going to allow me to continue running this and have that control of the P&L, it could be best of all worlds and certainly very value additive to the enterprise of Hightower. And that’s what we worked a few months to put together and everybody is really pleased with the outcome. Louis Diamond: Amazing. I mean it’s an interesting shift in the way I’m seeing a lot of these platforms, that they start off as a fee-for-service affiliation platform and then over time they morph to being buyers of businesses, investors in businesses. And Hightower is definitely, they’re probably at the forefront of really completely shifting or re-identifying themself in the market, especially on buying practices. So I think it’s very interesting that you had this long-term relationship and ultimately having such an amazing business, they were the ultimate buyer of the business. David Bahnsen: And I think it’s important to say for our listeners, you know as well as I do, if we went to market, there would’ve been a lot of interested parties. Louis Diamond: That was going to be my question. David Bahnsen: The organic growth alone would’ve commanded something pretty attractive. We were under Hightower’s ADV. I not only had a positive relationship with them and a good cultural dynamic, which I wouldn’t want to risk changing, but I don’t want to re-paper the size of this business, and so it was just a non-starter. I talked to a couple investment bankers after we were already in LOI and they all said the same thing. You had your most natural buyer. It was the one you were already dating. And that’s how I feel, is if there was going to be a transaction, it made the most sense for us to do it with the one we were already partnered with. Louis Diamond: So was it like, hey, you know exactly who we’re getting in bed with because they’ve already been our partner in this business for a while, and as long as I get what I think is fair value for the business, that’s good enough? I’m sure you could have gotten a turn or two more to have 50 bids and to have the shark circling to push Hightower higher. But it sounds like for you, that was of course important, but that wasn’t the number one driver. It was more how do we preserve what we like, preserve our autonomy and do it with people that we like and trust? David Bahnsen: Yeah, that continuity, in a funny way, I did it the wrong order. I ran a process after I was already at LOI, meaning I did enough to find out, hey, did I just do a good deal or not after I’d already done the deal. And the good news is I did, but it wasn’t the way most people go about doing it. But the continuity thing is there’s always two fronts to it at our size of business. There’s the client continuity and the team. Our team is going to move the payroll from being under Bahnsen Group to Hightower, and there’s benefits and changes and things. But the clients don’t know any difference whatsoever. Custodial, the G numbers, the ADV, there’s no signature required, no negative consent required because they already were under the Hightower ADV before. So this transaction all at once allows us to go into the next iteration of our business, which I’m very excited about, and I think is a wonderful deal for Hightower and what their goals are, but we didn’t have to bother clients with it. And when we say to clients, “Nothing’s going to change,” we can actually mean it. Louis Diamond: Yeah, that’s the definition of it. You mentioned there you’re excited for this next iteration or the next chapter of the company. Can you explain that? I would imagine just continuing your strategy that’s worked so well for the last decade plus, you keep doing that, I mean, you’re going to have a 20, 25, $30 billion business over the next handful of years. So what’s the next chapter? Why change it at all? What are you thinking about? David Bahnsen: Well, it’s funny in a moment now where, first of all, I’ve went out of my way to say that we didn’t grow at all inorganically, and a lot of people have now decided that inorganic growth is a little bit less impressive than organic growth. One of the issues with the law of large numbers is growing 30% at two billion meant adding 600 million and growing 30% at 10 billion means adding three billion in a year. Louis Diamond: That’s fair. David Bahnsen: And then 3.6 billion, the exponential nature of it. And I believe that there are… I’ve never gone to a meeting with an advisor with a checkbook or with a balance sheet, and we want to find some folks that want to join us, join our system, join our culture, not merely aggregate a bunch of unified parts, but in some cases doing that with other people demographically would mean some monetization events. So I do believe that there will be some inorganic growth that we will add to our toolbox as a supplement to our core underlying strategy, which we think is industry leading organic growth. So we want to continue doing more of what we’re doing. And then just as we continue to professionalize based on our size and scale more of those things that are not passions for us, technology, supervision and HR, utilize the mousetrap Hightower has that they do well while maintaining the things that make us uniquely us, which is our branding, our business development, our investment strategy, our delivery of services to clients. I’m not naive enough to think that there won’t be some growing pains and some hiccups and whatnot, but we believe that model, all the parties are very committed to it, and we believe it’s the right model for us. Louis Diamond: Absolutely. I think what’s really cool about what you said was, one, I agree with the concept of law of large numbers. I mean, it’s a fact, right? No matter how much content you put out, it’s going to be hard to bring in 10 billion of net new assets eventually without going inorganic. But I think to me at least the big trap in the industry today is firms either completely ignoring the organic and just focusing on buying and growing that way and pointing to, oh, we grew by this amount. But what you said, which is really cool and important I think is we’re going to continue the organic side to the best of our ability. That’s not going to change. Inorganic is a supplement. It’s not the replacement. I think that’s a really important lesson or discipline that it’s the combination of the two that really builds an enterprise and builds scale. You already had your transaction, but anyone who’s weighing a transaction in the future, buyers will always value a dollar of organic growth than they would inorganic growth. So if you can hit both and you do transactions strategically, you’re not just trying to buy anyone or everyone, but you’re doing it to add the right capacity, add a new discipline, diversify the talent pool, ho

Did Moses borrow the creation and flood accounts in Genesis from ancient Near Eastern myths? What should Christians make of the similarities between Genesis 1–11 and texts such as Enuma Elish, the Atrahasis Epic, and the Epic of Gilgamesh?In this episode of Bible and Theology Matters, Dr. Paul D. Weaver sits down with Dr. Michael Grisanti, Professor of Old Testament at The Master's Seminary and a leading scholar of the Old Testament and ancient Near Eastern literature, to explore these important questions.Dr. Grisanti explains why understanding genre, historical context, and the ancient Near Eastern world can be valuable for interpreting Scripture—but also why those backgrounds should never become the controlling lens through which we interpret Genesis.Together, they discuss:What is genre criticism, and why does genre matter for biblical interpretation?What are the major ancient Near Eastern texts compared with Genesis 1–11?What are the actual similarities between Enuma Elish and Genesis 1?How does the Epic of Gilgamesh compare with the biblical flood account?Did Moses borrow from Babylonian or Sumerian creation accounts?How should Christians understand similarities between ancient texts?When does comparative ancient Near Eastern study become "parallelomania"?How can ancient Near Eastern customs and literature genuinely illuminate the biblical text?Does Genesis 1–11 present history or myth?Why does the historicity of Genesis 1–11 matter theologically?Do you need a PhD to understand the Old Testament?How should pastors and students respond when critics use ancient Near Eastern parallels to challenge confidence in Genesis?One of the central themes of the conversation is that ancient Near Eastern literature can help us understand the world of the Bible without becoming the ultimate authority for interpreting the Bible. As Dr. Grisanti emphasizes, the biblical text itself must remain primary.The conversation also explores the theological significance of creation, Adam and Eve, Noah, and the flood—and why our understanding of Genesis ultimately shapes how we understand the character, power, and purposes of God. ABOUT MICHAEL GRISANTIDr. Michael A. Grisanti is a professor of Old Testament at The Master's Seminary and has spent decades studying the Old Testament, ancient Israel, and the ancient Near Eastern world. He has visited Israel more than forty times and has written extensively on Old Testament interpretation, biblical backgrounds, and ancient Near Eastern literature.

What if the biggest risk in AI isn't the technology—it's the system behind it? In this episode of Med Tech Gurus, we sit down with Henna Karna, Co-Founder and President of NeuroVitals, to explore why artificial intelligence doesn't fix broken organizations—it accelerates whatever already exists. Drawing on leadership experience at Google, AXA, and AIG, Henna shares a powerful perspective on the intersection of AI, healthcare, and mental wellness. While many organizations view AI as a solution, she argues that success depends on understanding culture, workflows, and human behavior before technology is deployed. We also explore NeuroVitals' mission to combine AI, biomarkers, and behavioral science to help individuals better manage their mental and physical well-being. From personalized wellness journeys to bridging gaps between therapy sessions, Henna explains how AI can support—not replace—human connection and clinical judgment. If you're interested in AI in healthcare, mental health innovation, digital health, patient engagement, behavioral science, or healthcare transformation, this episode offers a fresh perspective on how to build technology that strengthens people instead of simply automating processes.

Episode 51 of the Fire Safety Matters Podcast includes exclusive interviews with Alison Phillips (global head of fire safety risk management at the Ocado Group) and Michael Mansfield (area sales manager for the southern region at hazardous materials storage specialist asecos). A BSc (Honours) graduate in the subject of Fire Safety and Management, Alison is a Fellow of the International Institute of Risk and Safety Management and also a Member of the Institute of Fire Safety Managers. Having worked at property risk consultancy Marsh McLennan and then as a risk engineer at AIG, Alison joined the Ocado Group in late 2021. As global head of fire safety risk management, Alison leads strategic programmes designed to integrate fire safety risk into wider operational resilience planning across international operations. The focus is very much on delivering structured and scalable frameworks that strengthen asset protection, support business continuity and enable sustainable organisational change. In conversation with Brian, Alison concentrates on several important topics, among them the sustainability agenda and the drive to promote and realise careers for more females in the fire sector. Having graduated in Business Studies at De Montfort University, Michael Mansfield worked in account management roles at both Lyreco UK and the TFC Group LLP. Joining asecos back in June 2024, Michael has since brought over 15 years' worth of experience to bear in developing first-class working relationships with the company's customer base. On this occasion, Michael examines the fire safety-related risks posed by lithium-ion batteries and the overriding importance of product testing. Once again, Brian and Mark review some of the key news stories in the sector. There's a concentration on the updated version of PAS 9980 from the British Standards Institution, the campaign underpinning Fire Door Safety Week 2026, the recent Group restructure at BAFE and the opening of registrations for the inaugural edition of Fire Safety Matters Live Scotland.

We're still surprised people did this but... 50+ founders worth $10M to $4B reveal their personal finances. Here it is: https://joinhampton.com/mw-wrWhy do we do this? Because if you're an aspirational person or someone who runs a business and is making money, it's incredibly challenging to figure out what to do. Information is impossible to find — and that's what we put together: the net worth reveal and why we do this podcast, Moneywise.He turned down $42M, lost a $70M deal to a war, and sold his company over WhatsApp instead.Ryan Levesque is the author of the #1 national bestseller Ask and the founder of the Ask Method Company, a seven-time Inc. 5000 business that did over $100M in revenue. He grew up blue collar, quit AIG in China the morning the Wall Street Journal said the company was going bankrupt, and built his first business selling Scrabble tile jewelry tutorials on Etsy. Then he tried to sell his company twice. The first buyer flipped a $42.5M deal to $17M at the eleventh hour. The second, a $70M offer, evaporated the week Russia invaded Ukraine. Today he sits on $30–35M in liquid net worth and runs a 150-acre farm in Vermont with his wife and two boys, where 80% of what his family eats comes off their own land.This is the longest Moneywise episode we've ever cut, and I barely interrupted. We go deep on the two failed exits, the life insurance rejection letter at age 30 that turned out to be organ failure, the photo of his sons that made him stop chasing the number, and what it actually costs to run a 150-acre farm (spoiler: free food runs about half a million a year). Ryan also breaks down the money curriculum he built for his kids, why $35M didn't feel like enough until he decided it was, and the honeybee epiphany that led to selling his company to his biggest competitor.Also, this podcast is made by Hampton, which is a community for founders doing on average $20 million a year in revenue. We saw a lot of these money conversations happening privately behind closed doors and we thought, "What the heck, let's make it public." If you are a founder, apply here: http://joinhampton.com/mwTimestamps:0:00 — "Mr. Levesque, you should be in a coma right now." Cold open and episode roadmap5:30 — The WSJ headline reads "AIG to file for bankruptcy." He resigns the same day with ~$100K in the bank9:56 — Reverse-engineering an Etsy seller's income and building a Scrabble tile jewelry tutorial business: "emulate before you innovate"12:32 — The crash of the Scrabble tile jewelry market. Lesson: pick evergreen markets14:29 — Dead orchids in Shanghai become a $500K/year business. Then 23 businesses at once17:19 — A nine-figure sale to NBC (Golf Pass) and a $168M sale to PayPal. His cut: "less than seven figures"19:00 — Ask becomes the #1 bestselling book in America and births a $100M+ company21:00 — The $42.5M deal gets flipped to $17M at the eleventh hour. "We basically gave them the middle finger"25:13 — Interviewing 12 investment banks, going back to market, and landing a $70M offer28:30 — Russia invades Ukraine. The deal, and the entire M&A market, evaporates33:23 — The life insurance rejection letter. Kidney failure. Ten days in ICU. Undiagnosed type 1 diabetic40:16 — "My kid can't grow up without a dad." Shutting down 23 businesses41:42 — Two photos of his boys, seven years apart. "It was like a heartbeat"43:00 — Texting his wife from a tent in Vermont. Full-price cash offer on the Austin house the same night49:13 — Reading Peter Lynch at age 10 and turning $5K into $100K+ by 1851:57 — What he looked for in land: top of watershed, no PFAS, good schools. 12 months of Airbnbs56:41 — 48 beehives, 1,000 maple taps, 500 fruit trees, seven freezers. 100% of their own protein58:40 — The farm numbers: just under $5M for the land, $2M mortgage at 6.5%, $220K/year before a single animal1:03:59 — $260K in year one, $175K/year after. "Free food costs a lot of money"1:06:28 — The kids' money curriculum: Rich Dad Poor Dad read-alouds, Greenlight accounts, a real estate syndication paying them $300–400/month1:11:20 — His net worth when he decided it was enough: $30–35M liquid1:12:47 — "I've never been less money motivated in my life." $1M webinars and the Mexican fisherman1:15:08 — Goldenrod, purple aster, and the WhatsApp voice memo to Daniel Priestley. Company sold three months later1:20:20 — Legacy, $120K/year in tuition, and how much to hand to your kids: "the brownies are not fully baked"1:25:39 — Seven weeks in Europe, giving back, and why all altruism is selfish1:31:36 — Daniel's takeaway: figure out what you're optimizing for and start living it nowSponsors: Daily Body Coach - achieve your dream body with https://moneywise.dailybodycoach.comSubscribe to Moneywise: https://www.youtube.com/@themoneywisepodcastFollow Daniel on X: https://x.com/danielcberkListen on Spotify / Apple Podcasts: [search "Moneywise Hampton"]

I'm thrilled to share some powerful insights from my latest Capitalist Culture® podcast episode with Rich Smith, a CMO and behavioral scientist with more than 30 years of experience in marketing, leadership, and understanding why people make the decisions they do.This conversation explores behavioral science, persuasion, crisis leadership, brand building, and how AI is changing marketing and the customer experience.Here are the highlights you will not want to miss:Why People Really Buy• People often make decisions emotionally and rationalize them afterward. Great marketing connects emotionally first, then provides the rational justification.• Rich breaks down behavioral principles including confirmation bias, loss aversion, social proof, scarcity, and framing, and how each influences customers and leaders.• Social proof becomes especially powerful at the moment someone is deciding whether to buy because people want reassurance that others like them have made the same decision successfully.Building Brands That Break Through• Rich helped launch the first platinum bank card in the U.S., generating more than 7 million accounts and $12.5 billion in loans in under two years.• The lesson? Customers weren't simply buying another credit card. They were buying status.• Creating a new category can be far more powerful than trying to outperform everyone in an existing one.Leading Through Crisis• During the 2008 financial crisis, Rich helped navigate AIG through extraordinary uncertainty and later helped rebuild its brand.• His leadership lesson is simple: people hate uncertainty. Communicate frequently, transparently, and honestly, even when you don't have every answer.• Trust is built through authenticity, credibility, and consistently delivering on commitments.AI Is Changing the Customer• Rich distinguishes between "big M" marketing, strategy, and "little m" marketing, the tactics and execution.• AI can dramatically improve execution, but strategy, judgment, and creativity still require human leadership.• The bigger opportunity may not be using AI to make marketing departments more efficient. It is understanding how AI is fundamentally changing the way customers discover, evaluate, and buy products.Build a Customer Factory• Instead of spreading resources across every available marketing channel, Rich recommends deeply testing a smaller number of channels with enough scale to know what actually works.• Marketing leaders also need to translate marketing metrics into business outcomes that CEOs and CFOs understand.Final ThoughtsThe best marketing isn't about manipulating people. It's about understanding how people actually make decisions.As AI transforms how customers find information and make choices, the companies that combine behavioral insight, human creativity, proprietary data, and disciplined strategy will be positioned to adapt.And for leaders, one lesson remains timeless: understand your customer, communicate clearly, and build trust.Looking for Your Next A-Player Executive?KIP Search® helps companies identify, attract, and hire exceptional leaders who create lasting impact. Visit the KIP Search website and connect with us on LinkedIn to learn how we can help with your executive search needs.P.S. Be sure to subscribe to Capitalist Culture® for more conversations with founders, investors, and leaders shaping the future of business, leadership, and culture.Send us Fan MailConnect with Kip on LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/kipknippel/Watch Bite-Sized Clips on YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/@capitalistculture/shorts

"Whatever happens, I am whole, I am complete. I do not need fixing. I am not broken. So whatever happens, I've got me."  Gitanjali Trevorrow-Seymour   Gitanjali Trevorrow-Seymour and I talk about trust in yourself. She's a Possiblist: her word for how we're designed. The glass isn't half empty or half full, she says - it is full. The invisible part is where possibility lives. We talk about what gets in the way: BMW thinking (bitching, moaning, whinging and the optional extras: blaming, making up reasons and worrying), holding a plan like a promise and why changing your mind might be a superpower rather than a character flaw. Courage and curiosity come in as the things that move you forward. She tells me she is out to ban the word confident. And a story about trapeze artists prompted one of her clients to say: "I've just realised I'm my own safety net."   An Australian native, Gitanjali Trevorrow-Seymour studied psychology and worked as a professional actress before ‘accidentally' becoming a leader in the banking industry where she ran a 50Million Pound account, weathered the Global Financial Crisis and led highly engaged teams. Recognised as one of the Top 100 Female Entrepreneurs in the UK, she holds certifications in Neuroscience accredited with the British Psychological Society and has parlayed her eclectic background and fascination with ‘What makes humans special' into an award-winning consulting and coaching business. As CEO of people development company High Definition You, she and her team have had the privilege of working across the globe with organisations such as AIG, Wise and HSBC, transforming the way their leaders and teams perform and drive change -not with positive thinking, with Possiblist™ Thinking.   Connect with Gitanjali Website: https://highdefinitionyou.com/  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/linkinwithgitanjali/   Instagram: gitanjali.possiblist   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/   Resources Mentioned: Gitanjali's TEDx Talk -The Confidence Con: What if nothing's missing?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai2Y-7i9AT0&t=5s  The Art of Possibility, Benjamin Zander and Rosamund Stone Zander Benjamin Zander TED talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9LCwI5iErE&t=3s    

A MyCiTi bus crashed through Camilla Wilson’s boundary wall on Hout Bay Main Road following a collision with a blue Opel Corsa on 6 June. Camilla says she was at work when it happened and had no involvement in the crash, but three months later she is still trying to resolve who should cover the damage to her property. Her third-party claim was rejected by AIG, which says the Opel Corsa was the “ultimate cause” of the accident. Camilla also questions why the rejection described her as “the author of your own misfortune”. She speaks to Lester Kiewit about the crash, the insurance dispute and her efforts to get answers from the City of Cape Town and AIG. Good Morning Cape Town with Lester Kiewit is a podcast of the CapeTalk breakfast show. This programme is your authentic Cape Town wake-up call. Good Morning Cape Town with Lester Kiewit is informative, enlightening and accessible. The team’s ability to spot & share relevant and unusual stories make the programme inclusive and thought-provoking. Don’t miss the popular World View feature at 7:45am daily. Listen out for #LesterInYourLounge which is an outside broadcast – from the home of a listener in a different part of Cape Town - on the first Wednesday of every month. This show introduces you to interesting Capetonians as well as their favourite communities, habits, local personalities and neighbourhood news. Thank you for listening to a podcast from Good Morning Cape Town with Lester Kiewit. Listen live on Primedia+ weekdays between 06:00 and 09:00 (SA Time) to Good Morning CapeTalk with Lester Kiewit broadcast on CapeTalk https://buff.ly/NnFM3Nk For more from the show go to https://buff.ly/xGkqLbT or find all the catch-up podcasts here https://buff.ly/f9Eeb7i Subscribe to the CapeTalk Daily and Weekly Newsletters https://buff.ly/sbvVZD5 Follow us on social media CapeTalk on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CapeTalk CapeTalk on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@capetalk CapeTalk on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ CapeTalk on X: https://x.com/CapeTalk CapeTalk on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CapeTalkSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

As the UK's Chief Rabbi decries the new settler sanctions, we speak to Palestine's UK ambassador for his reaction.   Plus: England's youth are (nearly) leading the western world in reading, science & maths, and Anthropic loses an employee over their reckless race to AIG. With Michael Walker, Aaron Bastani, Husam Zomlot & Garrison Lovely.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Janice Ochenkowski about her leadership, her career path, serving in RIMS External Affairs and later as RIMS President. They discuss the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the loss of lives, and the impact the attacks had on life in the U.S. Justin and Janice talk about Janice's role in passing the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA). They also address the financial and housing crisis of 2007-2008. Janice relates her testimony before Congress on various matters over the years, and how her RIMS leadership held her in her employment. Listen for wisdom on adapting and changing with the times, and using leadership opportunities to help your business as you move your risk career forward.   Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will be joined by former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski. [:35] Janice will discuss how her time on the RIMS Board and as RIMS President helped ensure the passage of TRIA, the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act, in the aftermath of the 9/11 terror attacks. [:49] There will be plugs later on, and we will learn about Janice's fascinating career, but I wanted to address the fact that this episode is being released on September 8th, 2026, a few days before the 25th anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks in the U.S. [1:10] Before we get started, I'd like to welcome back RIMS's Chief Executive Officer, Gary LaBranche, to say a few words. [1:18] Message from Gary LaBranche: 2026 marks a quarter-century since terrorist attacks on the United States killed nearly 3,000 people, injured many more, and impacted the lives of millions. [1:30] This RIMScast podcast provides the opportunity to reflect on the lives lost and the lasting impact of this tragedy on survivors, families, friends, first responders, and everyone who witnessed that horrendous day and has borne its burden over the past 25 years. [1:51] The events of 9/11 also revealed the best in human nature, such as the warm, welcoming affection shown by Canadians when U.S.-bound flights were diverted to Gander, Montreal, Vancouver, Halifax, and other locations in the aftermath of 9/11, as we learn in this podcast. [2:11] RIMS played a leading role in crafting and passing the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (TRIA), which established an insurance backstop in the event of a future large-scale terrorist attack on America. [2:24] RIMS is working right now on bipartisan legislation in both the U.S. House and Senate to reauthorize TRIA. As we commemorate this day, let us rededicate ourselves to the important work that risk management does to make the world safer, more secure, and more sustainable. [2:46] On with the Show! Here to provide a brief history of RIMS's collaboration with members of Congress and the global insurance and risk management community is Janice Ochenkowski. [2:59] Janice was RIMS President in 2007, and as we will learn in this episode, she had a colorful career with RIMS and with Jones Lang LaSalle, a commercial real estate property owner. [3:13] Her RIMS participation prior to her presidency was instrumental in helping her get TRIA passed by Congress, so there's a lot to learn today … Let's get to it! [3:23] Interview! Janice Ochenkowski, welcome to RIMScast!  [4:04] Janice joined the Chicago Chapter of RIMS, not understanding the larger RIMS organization. She became an active member and an officer. She was President of the Chicago Chapter the year that Chicago member Art Bostwick was RIMS President. [4:55] Janice says Art was a good mentor for her. He encouraged her to follow in his footsteps to be national president. She laughed, but many years later, she did. [5:20] Janice started her risk management career in 1980; she joined the RIMS Chicago Chapter in '82 or '83. After moving through the chairs in the Chicago Chapter, she became a delegate to the RIMS Conference, started working in various committees, and moved into leadership. [5:47] Janice was elected to the Board, took on responsibilities for different chairs, and ended up in charge of Government Affairs. [6:01] Lance Ewing, the President at the time, asked the Board what roles they wanted to take. Janice said she would do anything except legislative stuff, because she didn't know anything about it. He burst out laughing, and suddenly that was her mandate. [6:31] Janice says she absolutely loved it. Jim McIntyre, who was RIMS's Washington Counsel, was a phenomenal mentor. He prepared her to testify, prepared her for meetings, and explained who she was going to meet and how it was going to work, and so on. [6:53] Janice says, from there, I went into a few other responsibilities and ended up as the President. [7:10] Janice started her career in 1980 at LaSalle Partners in real estate and financial services. There were 150 employees operating in six states. Because of Federal regulations regarding their pension work, they needed a full-time risk manager. [7:35] The legislation said they needed a risk manager but didn't explain what the risk manager needed to do. Janice had been teaching high school, and she wanted to move into business. [7:47] Janice interviewed through an employment agency with a variety of companies, and decided LaSalle Partners sounded interesting and it would be a good platform for her to get some experience and then move on. [8:02] Thirty-eight years later, she was still there, and retiring. When she retired, there were 90,000 employees in 100 countries. Janice had 17 full-time staff, globally, working for her. [8:20] Janice says LaSalle Partners started as a privately held company. Janice was one of the partners. It became a corporation and, after acquisitions, merged with Jones Lang Wootton, a UK real estate organization, and became Jones Lang LaSalle. [9:17] Janice says her career was a wild ride. She says she never could have imagined the experiences she had, the friendships she made, and the things that she learned and had opportunities to do, through her company and through RIMS. [9:36] Janice says she was able to draw links between the benefits of RIMS and the business of her business. When she went to board meetings, they asked how her RIMS work was going. She showed that being in leadership at RIMS helped her company to achieve its goals. [10:27] Janice says, when she started at RIMS, there were the local chapters, and then there were industry groups. The real estate industry group was extremely active. It was populated by very experienced real estate risk managers. They served as mentors to anyone coming on. [10:47] The group met not only during RIMS, but also in New York, in the fall, outside of the RIMS conference. Eventually, Jones Lang LaSalle supported the group's meetings and allowed them to use JLL buildings and support from technology to go forward. [11:07] Janice says, when she was going to a RIMS conference, she asked the JLL Board if there was anything they wanted her to focus on when meeting up with risk managers of their clients and vendors. [11:33] Over time, she didn't have to ask. They asked her, if you're going to your RIMS meeting, talk to this person. See if you can find out about this issue. There was connectivity between what Janice did at RIMS and supporting JLL. [12:10] Justin asks what Janice taught in high school. It was English and French. She can still speak un petit peu of French. She enjoys opportunities to speak to people in French and ordering from French menus. As a teacher, she wanted something different and moved into business. [12:42] Justin says that in over 400 RIMScast episodes, Janice might be the first guest who went from teaching and transitioned over to insurance. Janice says making lesson plans and executing them is good training for business. [13:07] Janice says she learned how to explain things. She had to translate insurance into real estate speak for JLL. She had to take real estate speak and translate it into insurance speak for underwriters and brokers. [13:22] Janice was comfortable speaking to groups because she had been speaking to unruly teenagers and getting them under control. Talking to a bunch of business people, who at least pretended to be interested, was a piece of cake. Janice says it was fun, and a good transition. [13:55] Justin brings up Janice's time as the Director of Government Affairs for RIMS. She became chair of what is now known as the RIMS External Affairs Committee. Lance Ewing nudged her into the role in the late 1990s. Then the September 11 terrorist attacks happened. [14:40] Janice says that one thing that's missing from most recollections is the immediate impact that the 9/11 terrorist attacks had. Before 9/11, there was the general perception that our borders were safe; there wasn't going to be an attack on U.S. soil. [15:15] When we saw the towers burning, when the plane went down, when the Pentagon was hit, that illusion was shattered. There was fear. We didn't know if this was the first of an aerial attack. Janice was on the 70th floor of the Aon Building, so it was a real concern for her. [15:40] Janice says, we didn't know if there was going to be an invasion or similar attacks around the country. To develop good risk management practices, the first thing you have to do is define the risk. [15:53] Janice says, we couldn't define the risk. The only thing we could do immediately was respond to the situation. She was thinking more with her Jones Lang LaSalle hat than with her RIMS hat. The entire leadership and spouses were on the West Coast doing strategic planning. [16:20] Janice says most of them operated in the Midwest and the East Coast. They had to get back, but there were no planes, no trains, and no transportation. They tried to get rental cars. So did everyone else in the world. [16:50] When they couldn't get more rental cars, they went to a used car lot and bought vans, station wagons, and whatever they could find where couples could travel together to similar places. When they got to where they were going, they sold the cars. That's how they got back. [17:15] Janice says, meanwhile, our technology folks were setting up hotlines: one hotline to figure out where people were. We had people traveling or on vacation. We didn't know where they were, and there was very limited communication. Phone lines and internet were down. [17:45] We set up a hotline. Every employee was required to call in every day for a couple of weeks, identifying where they were, whether they needed help getting back to their home, and what other resources they might need. The hotline helped them to get those resources. [18:06] The second hotline was for families. Families called that line if they were unable to reach their loved one. If the employee had called the hotline, JLL could tell the family where the employee was, how things were going, when they might get home, and take note of needs. [18:26] Janice says that's what was happening on the home front, away from the immediate needs in each of these 9/11 sites. It was only after that that you could settle back and think strategically about what it meant on a broader basis, and that's when she put her RIMS hat on. [18:49] Justin guesses that at the time, Jones Lang LaSalle had thousands of properties across the U.S., with millions of square feet. So there is the security risk at those buildings, as well. Janice agrees, absolutely. [19:04] Janice says people focus on New York and D.C., but in Kansas, Nebraska, and all around the country, everyone was in shock and preparing for the worst. [19:26] Janice says she remembers sitting on the 70th floor of the Aon Building, once they let everyone in, after a few days. There were windows all around, and her window looked out onto Lake Michigan, where all the military patrols were, over the lake. [19:52] Janice clearly remembers many times over the next several weeks sitting there and suddenly seeing a black helicopter rise into view. She could see the pilot's face, and she waved. Then it would descend. She says it was reassuring but also scary. [20:30] Justin asks about the hotlines. Janice says Jones Lang LaSalle did things collaboratively. If Technology was working on something, they brought in Risk, Legal, and HR, and they all sat down and figured it out. They were all a part of whatever strategy was needed. [20:55] Janice was involved. She was an important member of the Security Team and the Safety Team, and was involved even in the aftermath, coming up with ways in which to strengthen and protect their buildings. [21:08] People were worried about chemicals being thrown into the ventilation. So they came up with ways to protect that while still letting air into the buildings. What to do to allow people back in. All of those things had to be considered, for safety and for the practical effect on operations. [21:33] A Quick Break! Many fantastic RIMS events are coming up in 2026. The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information. [21:46] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information. [22:02] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. In Quebec City, we will be hosting the 50th Annual RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. [22:24] Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, with a new episode every month. [22:32] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration is open. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026. [22:46] We're already looking to RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st! RISKWORLD 2027 Registration is open to organizational, individual, and associate RIMS members. [23:04] Get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes. [23:17] Let's Return to Our Interview with Former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski! [23:41] Janice says she needed to wear her RIMS hat almost immediately. She says everyone realized that there was "innocuous" language in all policies that said terrorist acts were covered. [23:57] There were no limits, sublimits, or deductibles. It was standard coverage because no one expected it to be a real issue. Then it was. There was an immediate concern as they looked at what their total exposure was. [24:14] There was the concern about what to do for new policies. There was a moratorium on policies, as there always is after a particular crisis. When they were reissued, that language was removed. That might not seem like a problem for organizations with no real risk. [24:35] Janice says, in the risk management area, there were covenants in our client contracts, from language pulled from insurance policies, that now we couldn't satisfy that requirement. We were in violation of our contract. [24:54] Janice says the more critical issues were loan agreements and mortgages. Lenders required terrorism insurance. They weren't going to take that out after 9/11. We were faced with a terrible conundrum. We were in violation of our loan agreements. [25:16] Janice says nobody moved quickly to foreclose on any of those things, but it was hanging over our heads. Unsuccessful efforts to renegotiate were going on, all across the country. Congress was absolutely unwilling to become the Federal program for terrorism. [25:39] Janice says Congress refused to consider it being another flood insurance program because that wasn't going too well. Insurers started trying to figure things out and made some limited amounts of coverage available. [25:55] At one point, globally, there was $10 million of terrorism coverage available. $10 million didn't satisfy anybody's loan requirement. Ultimately, it went up to $25 million, but it was still a problem. [26:24] Organizations like the Real Estate Round Table, RIMS, and other groups formed coalitions. Jim McIntyre was very helpful. He had contacts in all those groups. He inserted RIMS wherever he could. [26:49] JLL saw the basic need for what Janice was doing at RIMS, so she had carte blanche to go to Washington whenever she needed to work on these matters. These groups were able to explain to Congressional aides and the business press what things meant, in plain English. [27:33] Januce says, you tell them, this building goes into foreclosure, and the guy running the coffee shop doesn't have a job anymore. Development and construction totally stop. Nothing was being built. That impacts all the trades and unions, so they joined the coalition. [27:57] Unions became activists because their members, who thought they had jobs starting over the next several months, were now sitting on their hands with nothing to do. Small businesses set up around the potential sites had nothing happening. [28:18] Janice says there was a financial impact from that decision by insurers. It wasn't a faulty decision; they had shareholders. [28:33] Ultimately, after long discussions and negotiations, Janice testified before the President's Working Group on Terrorism, and before Congress, and met with Congressional Aides who were working on various bills, and was able to assist in passing TRIA. [28:58] TRIA wasn't perfect, but what it did was bring together the three major parties who had the most skin in that game and gave each of them a relative amount of financial responsibility in what happened. [29:12] These parties were the policyholders, with huge deductibles; insurance companies, with caps and reasonable premium allocations for risks, and the Federal Government, which came in after tens of millions of dollars had been paid out and criteria were met. [29:45] The Federal Government wasn't being capricious, or taking first-dollar risk, but was a backstop, so that there wouldn't be financial ruin and we wouldn't have a lot of bankruptcies. Imperfect as TRIA was, it solved a problem. [30:06] Janice says there have been several reauthorizations, and it has been tweaked each time to meet the issues and criteria that had to be met. Justin asks about cyber and forms of terrorism that may not be physical acts of terrorism. [30:31] Janice mentions the NBCR, for Nuclear, Biological, Chemical, and Radiological threats. It raised the issue, and there were risk management processes that were able to minimize those risks. [30:49] One more Quick Break! RIMS, The Foundation for Risk ManagementTM, is dedicated to shaping the future of the profession. By making a contribution, you are strengthening the global risk management community and investing in the future of the industry. [31:09] The Foundation also supports the Spencer Educational Foundation but has a different mission. The Foundation focuses on providing opportunities for those professionals who have already decided to enter risk management and are just getting started. [31:23] You can learn more about the Foundation by visiting www.RIMS.org/FRM.  While you're there, be sure to check out information about the Susan Meltzer Scholarship Fund, which was established to honor Ms. Meltzer, who was RIMS President in 1999 and 2000. [31:42] Susan Meltzer was a cherished RIMS President and contributed so much to RIMS and the greater risk community. Learn more at RIMS.org/FRM. [31:51] Let's Return to Our Interview with Former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski. [32:12] Janice says meeting with Congressional Aides and Policymakers on Capitol Hill was intimidating the first hundred times she did it. You're walking into these buildings that you've only seen photographs of. You're going into the offices. [32:24] Jim McIntyre had explained to her that Congressional aides have a lot of power over the bills and the language in the bills. The Congresspeople they work for look to these aides to be their technical resource. [32:42] While some people were angry that they couldn't meet with the principal; they were only going to meet with the staff, but you want to meet with the staff. [32:57] The staff will take the time to sit down with language and work with you on it, and you'll have a better chance of impacting things by developing relationships with them. It worked very well. Some of the work Janice did with Jim before 9/11 really helped. [33:22] There was some insurance legislation that was going on. Aides did not understand what it meant. Janice ran a lunch program for the aides and taught them the basics of insurance. She bought pizzas for them. Now, you can't do that because you can't buy them lunch. [33:44] Janice says they were coming to learn. Many of them were thankful because it gave them an understanding of what people were talking about and why certain things mattered. We had built some groundwork before TRIA. It helped because I already knew some of the aides. [34:00] There were already relationships. They were willing to sit down and talk with us. We were the voice of the insurance buyer. Previously, when insurance matters were discussed on the Hill, insurance companies and brokers were lobbying. This time, it was the voice of the buyer. [34:29] Janice says, We were constituents. We represented industries and organizations that were in their respective districts. Our voice became an important voice, distinct from the insurance industry. It reinforced RIMS's importance and raised our visibility on the Hill. [34:58] In 2004, Janice testified before a Senate Government Affairs Subcommittee on Insurance Brokerage Regulation regarding TRIA. Janice says, walking in, she was overcome with a sense of history. The panel was people she had seen on C-SPAN. [35:26] Janice says she was terrified she would say something wrong, that it would come out backwards, and that she would embarrass RIMS, JLL, and herself. She was used to speaking in public, but this was just different. It all went well in the end. [35:55] Janice says she had a prepared statement. Then there were five-minute questions and answers. Janice says there is a clock counting down, and when it gets to one minute, it starts flashing. She says it was a little unnerving and she stuttered a few times. [36:33] Janice says they interrupt your five minutes with questions, so your time is less. You're supposed to summarize what your position is and what you're testifying for. When you're on a panel, it's not the same as when they're conducting a hearing, accusing you of wrongdoing. [37:02] Janice says the Congress Members are trying to get information and a few sound bites to send home. It's not antagonistic. They're not trying to trip you up on anything. Once you become accustomed to it, the next time is a little easier, because you're relaxed. [37:29] In 2006, Janice appeared before the House Subcommittee on Financial Services about Insurance Modernization. Janice says it was a topic that she had a lot of comfort in speaking about. She wasn't quite as nervous about getting the facts mixed up or totally blanking. [38:05] Janice says she was part of a panel of five or six people. It's for an hour or so. They might pause if somebody has to take a call. [38:36] Janice became RIMS President soon after. [38:52] In 2012, Janice returned to Capitol Hill for a hearing before the Subcommittee on Insurance, Housing, and Community Opportunity of the Committee on Financial Services in the U.S. House of Representatives. [39:08] Janice says she always spoke in RIMS's capacity. JLL did not do any lobbying. JLL joins groups, like the Real Estate Round Table, RIMS, and other groups that represent their interests. [39:36] Janice says that for the 2012 visit she had a greater comfort level. It was on an issue she was comfortable with: broker compensation. It was easier to discuss. She still had the same anxieties about being in Congress, in that room, with all the history, speaking to icons. [40:23] Justin says that TRIA was eventually passed. It's been reauthorized a couple of times. It has made a difference for companies and for society, at large. Janice says it raised RIMS's profile in the eyes of the others who were participating and testifying. [40:46] Janice says RIMS got a lot of press. The Wall Street Journal and the business press, in addition to insurance publications, presented information about RIMS. On a corporate level, when Janice's name was printed in association with JLL, clients asked about it. [41:18] Janice says, with things like TRIA, or general insurance questions, clients would go to their risk managers and ask them to contact me to get information. This delighted JLL because it was a closer client relationship. JLL had an initiative to provide specialist experts for clients. [42:23] Janice says if you go before Congress, the most important thing is to do your homework. Even if you're comfortable with public speaking, don't expect you can ad-lib to a Committee. Prepare, prepare, prepare, and understand the pros and cons. Practice with potential questions. [43:06] Janice practices loudly to learn what word combinations she stumbles over. Then she removes them from her presentation. She says when you're more prepared, you're more self-confident. That makes you a better presenter. Justin says, also, rehearse in different places. [44:29] Janice takes a somewhat formal draft and then "Janicizes" it. She writes it in a way that's more conversational, as she would speak, rather than reading something formally. That makes you more comfortable, so you're a better presenter. [45:22] Janice says it seems that everybody knows when it's time to pass the baton to the next generation. She loved what she did, and she did it well; she was open to new ideas, but she was standing in the way of the next generation of leaders moving forward. She didn't want to do that. [45:55] Janice says that people with new ideas, generational ideas, who could relate to what's coming up, need to be allowed to move forward. [46:12] Janice says, think about what's happening in Washington. People need to move aside to let a new generation of leaders come in. Otherwise, you're missing that energy and enthusiasm of a new group of leaders. That's life. You move away and let the new guy in. [47:05] Webinars: On September 17th, AXA XL returns to present the session, "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity, and Resilience." [47:16] On October 1st, Brown and Brown will make their RIMS Webinar debut with "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Think About Now." [47:26] On October 8th, Global Risk Consultants will present "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now." [47:35] On October 15th, Verisk Maplecroft will lead the session, "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight." [47:44] On October 22nd, Zurich will present "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders." [47:53] Origami Risk will return on October 29th with a topic that will be announced soon. [47:58] On November 5th, Riskonnect returns to deliver the session, "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics." [48:05] RIMS Certification Week will be held from September 21st through the 25th. All three webinars are complimentary for all and are available through the Webinars Page on RIMS.org/Webinars. [48:21] Let's Conclude Our Interview with Former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski! [48:34] Justin says Janice became RIMS President during the housing and mortgage crisis of 2007-2008. Janice says it's something risk managers need to think about. When there is a crisis, you don't step away from it; you step into it. You show leadership.  [49:17] Janice says she was able to help resolve something that was one of the most critical issues at that time. At the beginning, the financial crisis focused on AIG and its vulnerability to bankruptcy, and what that meant to the entire insurance industry. [49:47] Janice says it was really difficult because AIG was a major insurer for almost every large corporation in the U.S. and globally. Suddenly, senior board members were wondering if their claims in process would be paid. Will AIG go bankrupt, and what will happen to those claims? [50:15] They wondered if they should cancel their policies mid-term and underwrite with someone else, and if so, who? What will the financial impact of that be? Boards were coming to risk managers with those questions. Janice had those questions herself. [50:35] Janice says we were totally unprepared to answer them. We didn't have any more information than you were reading in The Wall Street Journal. Janice and the phenomenal RIMS staff put together a series of podcasts, the first of which was in three weeks. [50:59] Janice says they got sponsors and speakers. They contacted experts in various areas and senior executives at the major insurers, including AIG, and insurance brokerages. They were willing to sit and talk to their clients and to be shown as thought leaders in the area. [51:20] Janice says at the time there were 1,000 talking heads saying what should be done, but there were very few facts. You can't form a good risk management response to anything until you have facts; until you have data you can rely on and move forward with. [51:50] Janice says RIMS strove to provide facts. When they did the podcasts, they did not only invite RIMS members. They sent invitations to the C-Suites of major corporations. They told The Wall Street Journal and other business publications they were running these podcasts. [52:06] There was a series of podcasts. People tuned in. They were interested. RIMS established credibility with the information they provided. RIMS gave them tools and told them what to think about and consider, and what the ramifications could be, and let them decide for themselves. [52:55] Janice says that it seemed to be a popular series, and it raised RIMS's profile within the general business community and the C-Suite, even in areas that didn't have dedicated risk managers who reported to the C-Suite. It was one of the most important things RIMS did. [53:25] Janice says, then they went to Congress and talked to them about solvency and more. Also, Janice says they kept in touch with Congressional staff between meetings. The key to relationships on the Hill is meeting with aides. Many move from one Congressperson to another. [53:49] You keep up the relationships, and that gives your organization credibility. You're there consistently. Once an aide called and asked her to help define risk management for a piece of legislation. They had no real idea. She helped them craft something reasonable but not onerous. [55:14] Justin brings up the RIMS Annual Legislative Summit. They have a presence on Capitol Hill every year. It's a two-day or two-and-a-half-day event, so members who attend can get onboarded, know their talking points, and know the issues. Janice elaborates on preparation. [56:15] Janice says the Legislative Summit brought a lot of people from local RIMS chapters into the External Affairs Committee. That was a good pipeline. [56:31] Justin says his experience in 2018, for the reauthorization of the National Flood Insurance Program, was everything Janice mentioned. There was a small card with talking points, there was a rehearsal, coaching from professional lobbyists, and industry leadership. [57:10] Justin says it was a great experience. They met with aides, brought maps, and showed flood zones. They had the talking points down, and it was effective. It was one of the best experiences he could have had as a new RIMS staff member. It was excellent. [57:59] Justin remarks that Janice was the right person for the job. Her experience at Jones Lang LaSalle was terrific. Janice was a lifer. She retired in 2018, after 38 years. [58:46] Janice says risk management has certain basic things, but you have to evolve with the times. You can't resist change; you have to look at change as an opportunity. [59:00] If you're a smart risk manager, you're going to lean your company into that opportunity. Janice says, when people were working in her generation of RIMS, it wasn't unusual to spend a career at one or two companies. There was stability. You didn't need to leave to be promoted. [59:26] Janice became a Partner. When they were incorporated, she became an officer. When she ended her career, she was an Executive Vice President and part of the Global Operating Team, which set strategies for all JLL businesses. They reported directly to the Board. [59:51] Janice says risk management had a fairly high profile. New risk officers may not have that opportunity because the business world is demanding that you move every three to five years to get promoted. [1:00:23] Janice says whatever works for you and your organization and helps you move forward is what your personal strategy needs to be. Janice says, not only those who died in the towers, in the Pentagon, and in the field, but those who walked away with scars, visible and invisible. [1:00:40] Justin takes a moment to address and honor everyone who lost their lives during the 9/11/2001 terrorist attacks, on its 25th anniversary. [1:01:04] Janice speaks of the first responders and volunteers who rushed in to help and walked away with lifelong consequences from the materials that they inhaled. [1:01:19] Janice says, We just need to spend a few minutes on 9/12 remembering them and making sure that the relevance and their sacrifices are noted. [1:01:36] Janice, you've given us so much inspiration, and told us what it took for you to be an effective RIMS President. To anyone thinking about pursuing a leadership role at RIMS, starting out now, what advantages do they have to position them for success as a RIMS leader? [1:02:06] Janice says, the most important benefit that exists today, that didn't when I was starting, is technology. Today we do Zoom calls. Getting together and communicating was much more onerous. [1:02:23] It wasn't as easy to get people from across the country together and work collaboratively. We can do that easily now. People are taking advantage of that. They're using social media to spread ideas. [1:02:41] Janice says her generation struggled with social media. She did it because that's what she had to do. You can't stagnate. You've got to move with the changes as they come and figure out how to use those changes to move yourself forward. [1:02:58] What will technology and AI mean to risk management? What will they mean to RIMS? How is RIMS going to use AI? How is RIMS leadership going to use AI to promote what the important basics of risk management are and can be? Those are things you have to consider. [1:03:18] In order to be an effective leader at RIMS, you have to get the absolute support of your organization. You've got to connect those dots. You've got to show how and why your leadership at RIMS is going to benefit your company. [1:03:42] Telling your leadership you're going to a conference is not going to convince them that there's anything important going on. [1:03:56] The way to convince them is to tell them there's a conference. These are the sessions that they're going to have. This is the speaker they will have. That speaker is someone I think will tell me information about how to address this issue. [1:04:13] This session is about an issue that we faced last year. I want to go and see how others are doing with it. The next step is to come back and write a note telling leaders what you learned in that session. Ask, Can I meet with you to talk about these things I think we can implement? [1:04:42] You're showing that you're taking the information you're learning and using it to improve risk management in your company, and more importantly, the business of the business you are working in. [1:05:00] When Janice was President, she would visit a chapter and ask everybody who's in the insurance industry to raise their hands. They would raise their hands. Then she told them, no, you use the products of the insurance industry, but you are your company's representative. [1:05:51] Janice Ochenkowski, thank you so much for all your time and your insight today. It's such a pleasure to meet you face-to-face, and I hope we get to do that in person at a future RIMS event. [1:06:06] Special thanks again to former RIMS President Janice Ochenkowski for joining us here on RIMScast! This was a lot of fun, and there are plenty of great takeaways about TRIA, RIMS, public speaking, and honoring the victims of the 9/11/2001 terrorist attacks. [1:05:26] It was a real pleasure to meet Janice Ochenkowski, one of our most revered leaders. [1:06:30] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information. [1:06:48] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [1:07:04] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [1:07:17] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org. [1:07:29] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!   Links: Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026 ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026 RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 21‒24 | Complimentary For All RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today. RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Sponsorship Opportunities Available RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Registration Now Open! | www.rims.org/ERM2026 RISKWORLD 2027 Registration RIMScast Canada — Episodes Now Live — Watch the new video with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau. The Strategic and Enterprise Risk Center RIMS, the Foundation for Risk Management Spencer Educational Foundation — Scholarships and Grants | Open Calls and Timelines. RIMS Now RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) | Insights Video Series Featuring Joe Milan! RIMS Diversity Equity Inclusion Council RIMS-CRMP Stories RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMScast on YouTube! RIMS Risk Management magazine | Contribute | Q2 2026 Issue Now Available Sponsor RIMScast — Sales@RIMS.org Upcoming RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops: Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops   Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars "RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9 | Complimentary for all "Beyond the Loss Count: What Property Claims Reveal About Frequency, Severity and Resilience" | Sponsored by AXA XL | Sept. 17, 2026 "RIMS Certification Week: Sept. 22‒24" | Complimentary for All "The Future of Captives: What Risk Managers Should Be Thinking About Now" | Sponsored by Brown & Brown | Oct. 1, 2026 "The 2027 Risk Agenda: 10 Engineering Priorities Risk Leaders Should Act on Now" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants | Oct. 8, 2026 "Beyond the Horizon: Turning External Risk Into Decision-Ready Insight" | Sponsored by Verisk Maplecroft | Oct. 15, 2026 "Cybercrime, Fraud and AI: Real-World Threats and Practical Defenses for Business Leaders" | Sponsored by Zurich | Oct. 22, 2026 "Signal Over Noise: Smarter Risk Analytics" | Sponsored by Riskonnect | Nov. 5, 2026   Related RIMScast Episodes: "Opening Windows of Tolerance with Sophie Grégoire Trudeau" "When Geopolitics Hits the Balance Sheet with Cari Stinebower" "RIMS Advocacy in 2026 with Mark Prysock"   Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: "48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!) 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RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact sales@rims.org or pd@rims.org for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: Content@rims.org.   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Janice Ochenkowski, Former RIMS President   Special introduction by RIMS CEO Gary LaBranche   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Dawn Miller, Chief Commercial Officer of Lloyd's and CEO of Lloyd's Americas, joins host James Benham to explore what an insurance ecosystem actually is, why a 338-year-old market still has to fight to be understood, and how Lloyd's Lab turned an accelerator into a pipeline that keeps its alumni in the industry.Dawn grew up in Georgia and went to university in Washington, D.C. planning to run the United Nations. Instead she found risk transfer — first at OPIC, now DFC, then political risk at Willis — and stayed for 25 years, through Chubb, AXA and AIG, with a detour building a company in Prague along the way. She joined Lloyd's for the transformation challenge: an institution with 338 years of legacy, a license network trading in 200 countries, and a purpose statement that needed a reset.Recorded on site at InsurTech Insights New York 2026.In this episode:• What separates an ecosystem from a marketplace or a network — Dawn's answer is the heartbeat at the center, where you can watch value move between stakeholders• Why Lloyd's reset its purpose statement in March, and why "global" appears in it twice when 60% of market premium comes out of North America• The narrative problem: a coffee house origin story and 338 years are not enough to win capital and clients• Inside Lloyd's Lab seven years on — two themed cohorts a year, structured problem statements, government partners, and the 95% of alumni still in insurance• Why insurance should talk about itself as a resilience industry that happens to sell insurance, and what that reframe does for talentKey Quotes:"We bring together the world's leading risk-takers to advance global progress.""Your competitor one day could be your partner the next, your client the following.""We can't just say we started in a coffee house. We've been here 338 years. That's not enough.""Ecosystem is the only word that gives a sense of a bit of a heartbeat to the center of it.""Talk about us as a resilience industry that happens to sell insurance."

Episode Detail Insurance carriers have quietly lived with a roughly $50 billion problem for years: a level of fraud baked so thoroughly into homeowners and personal auto pricing that the industry simply calls it the cost of doing business. In this episode, Bryan Falchuk sits down with Kim Garland, Industry Executive & Advisor, to size that number for real and ask why an industry built to manage risk has been so slow to manage this one. Garland spent more than three decades inside carriers, from GEICO and Safeco to AIG and State Auto, before stepping outside day-to-day operations to advise the industry from a different vantage point. He and Bryan dig into the difference between the old fraud-verification playbook and a newer approach built around trust and behavioral signals, why homeowners insurance can't keep leaning on rate increases the way personal auto has, and what it actually takes for carrier leadership to stop treating a solvable problem as background noise. The takeaway: unlike the weather, this is a lever the industry can actually pull, if it decides to. Guest Bio Kim Garland is an insurance industry executive and advisor with more than 35 years of experience across carriers, product management, and actuarial leadership. He began his career at GEICO in 1988, then spent time at Safeco, where he ran the personal auto business until the company was acquired by Liberty Mutual in 2008. He joined AIG in the aftermath of the financial crisis, spending six years helping lead the recovery of its mortgage insurance business. In 2015, he joined State Auto, a regional carrier based in Columbus, Ohio, where he worked until State Auto was also acquired by Liberty Mutual. Since then, Garland has been advising startups and studying the industry from outside its day-to-day operations, bringing a perspective shaped by decades on the inside. Show Notes: The Industry Has Priced Fraud In — And Called It Normal: Garland estimates fraud costs the industry roughly $50 billion a year across homeowners and personal auto, close to 10% of premium. His view: most carriers quietly treat that number as a fixed cost rather than a solvable problem — what he calls one of the industry's "dirty little secrets." Honest policyholders absorb the difference every time a carrier accepts a baseline level of fraud and prices around it instead of fighting it. From Verification to Trust: A Different Paradigm: The old playbook asks a question, checks the answer against a database, and accepts that some fraud slips through anyway. Newer approaches look at behavioral signals, like how long an applicant hesitates before answering a material question, or a voice-based assessment of trustworthiness, such as the approach used by Clearspeed. Garland is careful to separate ordinary rate-shopping behavior, like comparing deductibles or coverage limits, from genuine red flags, like a garaging address that suddenly doesn't match reality. Trust Is Situational, Not a Life Sentence: Today's tools assess trustworthiness in a specific interaction, not as a permanent label on a customer. Garland argues that framing matters: someone flagged in one moment isn't branded across every future interaction with the carrier. Why Homeowners Can't Keep Leaning on Rate Increases: Garland sees personal auto and homeowners on different trajectories. Autonomous driving technology is a macro trend that should push auto losses, and eventually premiums, down over time. Homeowners insurance has no equivalent tailwind. If rate increases keep outpacing wage growth and general inflation, he expects consumers or regulators to eventually push back. His view: when the rate-increase lever stops working, carriers are left with three choices — run at a loss, pull back from the market, or actually attack the underlying cost drivers. What It Actually Takes to Change: Carrier Attitude, New Tools, Regulatory Room: Garland lays out three levers: a genuine change in carrier mindset, which he believes has to be driven from the CEO and C-suite, better trust-based tools, and regulators giving carriers room to push back on bad-faith complaints. He argues progress on any one of the three levers moves the needle, even without all three moving at once. In his view, the core obstacle is organizational inertia — discomfort with pushing back on a customer complaint, a regulator, or a dip in survey scores, more than any shortage of technology or options. Predict and Prevent Has Potential, But Human Behavior Is the Real Barrier: Garland thinks preventing losses before they happen, not just detecting fraud after the fact, has real legs, particularly for closing the openings fraudulent contractors exploit after a loss. He compares the challenge to getting people to save for retirement or exercise consistently: the payoff is real, but delayed, which makes it a hard behavior to change. He credits the startups working in this space, while noting that inertia, not a lack of good ideas, remains the biggest obstacle. This episode is brought to you by The Future of Insurance book series (future-of-insurance.com) from Bryan Falchuk. Follow the podcast at future-of-insurance.com/podcast for more details and other episodes. Music courtesy of Hyperbeat Music, available to stream or download on Spotify, Apple Music, and Amazon Music and more.

IUMI Masterclasses offer three-and-a-half days of intensive learning, taking a deep dive into the key concepts of either cargo or hull insurance. Led by senior industry professionals, the Masterclasses are interactive, discussion-based workshops covering a broad and practical curriculum. Earlier this year, we took our Cargo Masterclass outside London for the first time, choosing Singapore as our venue. In this podcast, we hear from two of the participants: Mark Govender, Head of Marine, Sub-Saharan Africa at AIG in South Africa, and Joanne Soh, Senior Marine Underwriter, Asia Pacific at Sompo in Singapore. Mark and Joanne share their experiences of the Masterclass, explaining how it strengthened their technical knowledge, broadened their professional networks and gave them the opportunity to learn from experienced colleagues from across the marine insurance community. Our next two Masterclasses – Hull and Cargo – will take place in London in October. Please visit https://iumi.com/category/learning/masterclass/ for full details.

Episode Detail Travel insurance has long relied on a government advisory as a clean, defensible line between insurable and not: when the advisory says don't go, coverage steps back. It's a structure that works well when conflict stays contained and advisories track it closely. This year's conflict in the Gulf tested that model in real time, as the advisory stayed in place well after the fighting eased, leaving businesses and travelers who still needed to operate there without a clear path to cover. Graeme Dean built Hotspot Cover to close gaps like that one, insuring individuals and organizations who still need to operate, travel, and respond in conflict zones and other high-risk regions around the world. He later founded a second business, Trigger Parametric, applying the same full-stack, specialist model to parametric weather, Nat CAT, and commodity risk. Bryan Falchuk talks with Graeme about why the underwriting appetite for this kind of risk already exists inside the Lloyd's market, what actually needed reinventing to serve it at speed, and what it took to build a Guernsey-based captive and direct Lloyd's reinsurance access fast enough to keep pace with how quickly real risk changes. Guest Bio Graeme Dean is an Australian InsurTech veteran based in the UK. He spent roughly a decade building embedded InsurTech Cover Genius, leading its global insurance solutions team, before founding Hotspot Cover, a specialist insurer for organizations and individuals operating in conflict zones and other high-risk regions worldwide. He also founded Trigger Parametric, a full-stack parametric risk transfer business covering weather, natural catastrophe, and commodity risk globally through its own reinsurance vehicle. Earlier in his career, Graeme led the accident & health division at Allianz and held roles at AIG, 1Cover Travel Insurance, and Dream Wedding Insurance. He holds a degree from Heriot-Watt University and advises multiple InsurTech startups. Show Notes: Why the Advisory Trigger Struggled to Keep Up: The clean trigger: Travel insurance has long used the government advisory as a defensible line for when a destination becomes too risky to cover. Built for contained conflict: That structure works well when the advisory tracks the conflict closely and the conflict itself stays contained. The Gulf test: When missile strikes hit the Gulf earlier this year, the advisory stayed in place well after the fighting eased. A design question, not a blind spot: Graeme sees the lag as a governance and product design question worth rethinking, not a sign the industry wasn't paying attention. Delivery Is the Bottleneck, Not Underwriting Appetite: The capacity already exists: Lloyd's specialty syndicates have covered war-zone and Kidnap & Ransom risk for decades, including in Iraq and Afghanistan. The real constraint: What Hotspot Cover set out to fix is how slow, expensive, and structurally unsuited the traditional London market is to short-notice, high-velocity business. The fix: A Guernsey-based captive reinsuring into Lloyd's, giving Graeme's team control over policy design and speed of issuance. Two Channels, Not One Embedded Product: Not embedded: Hotspot Cover doesn't sell through a single checkout flow the way mainstream travel insurers do. Direct platform: A dedicated site for short-term, last-minute high-risk trips, built on its own underwriting matrix. Gap-country layer: A supplemental coverage layer for corporates and groups whose standard business travel policy leaves out certain high-risk countries. Trigger Parametric: The Same Model, Applied to Parametric Risk: Where it came from: Access to A-rated reinsurance capacity through Hotspot Cover opened Graeme's eyes to a similar gap in parametric risk. The gap: Local insurers and brokers in developing markets often have the regulatory relationships but not the actuarial and data science expertise to price parametric risk themselves. What Trigger provides: Structuring, pricing, and capital access across weather, Nat CAT, and commodity risk globally, not just a brokerage pass-through. Earning Trust as a Challenger: The competition: Hotspot Cover competes for attention against household names like Chubb and the Lloyd's brand itself. The playbook: Win a client's hardest "problem child" countries first, then expand into their full global program once trust is built. Trigger's different hurdle: Broker and buyer skepticism about parametric structures, including basis risk concerns and comparisons to gambling. The fix: Let clients test the structure on a small slice of exposure, often around 10%, before scaling it up. This episode is brought to you by The Future of Insurance book series (future-of-insurance.com) from Bryan Falchuk. Follow the podcast at future-of-insurance.com/podcast for more details and other episodes. Music courtesy of Hyperbeat Music, available to stream or download on Spotify, Apple Music, and Amazon Music and more.

Tá sé i gceist ag Sharon Uí Dhonaill as Árainn Mhór agus a beirt mac iomramh 3,000 míle trasna an Aigéin Atlantaigh.

In this episode of Corporate Finance Explained, we explore Enterprise Risk Management (ERM) and why many companies mistake risk reporting for actual risk management. Through real-world case studies including AIG, Credit Suisse, Toyota, and JPMorgan Chase, we examine how organizations identify, measure, and respond to risk, and why some companies survive major crises while others fail despite seeing the warning signs. You'll learn why risk appetite statements, risk registers, heat maps, key risk indicators (KRIs), and probability-weighted scenario analysis are critical tools in modern corporate finance. We also explain how effective ERM helps companies manage operational, financial, and strategic risks before they become balance sheet disasters.

Paul vertelt over zijn weekje in de UK en zijn bezoek aan The Open. Rogier is ook in de UK geweest, maar bij LIV UK. Door jetlag miste hij de maandbeker op zondag. Peter en Martijn zijn gewoon in het land gebleven. Martijn heeft zijn eerste 18 weer in de pocket. Peter speelde zijn voorronde matchplay en had allerlei excuses waarom dat niet lukte.Ondanks dat Scottie eraan kwam wist Jackson Koivun, rookie en megatalent, op de PGA Tour de 3M te winnen.Nog even terug naar The Open ervaringen van Paul.ISPS Handa sponsorde deze week zowel de Champions tour voor de oude mannen als het Schots open bij de dames, beide in Schotland. Jerry Kelly won op Gleneagles waar wij ook zijn geweest en bij de dames won Jenny Shin. We hebben nog tips voor Charley Hull.Herbert was ongenaakbaar op LIV UK en wint met een recordscore van -30 van Hatton en Bryson. Ripper is ook het beste team van de week.In de korte ronde: US junior amateur, (potentiële) majorwinnaars onder 30, de backstabber Asian tour, Naarderbos, uitslag polletje op Insta en kan een hcp 8 golfpro zijn?We voorspellen voor het AIG ladies Open: Charlie Hull, Minjee Lee, Yamashita en Nelly Korda, maar we hopen op Dewi Weber.Raad de Speelster, volgende week kanshebber.0:00 - 22:28 Eigen golf22:28 - 49:35 Professioneel golf49:35 - 1:10:27 Korte Ronde1:10:27 - 1:10:57 Raad de Speelster

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Spencer Funding Their Future Honoree, Sierra Signorelli, about her background in environmental science, what drew her into insurance, and what convinced her that this profession was where she wanted to build a career. They discuss her career path from environmental consulting to environmental insurance underwriting to leading a global team and to currently serving as CEO of U.S. and Commercial Insurance at Zurich, and the pivotal moments that changed the trajectory of her career. They discuss her passion for helping women make their way in the industry, and her activities to bring new talent into insurance careers. Justin and Sierra discuss the Spencer Educational Foundation and how Zurich's interest in nurturing new talent aligns with Spencer's work.   Listen for Sierra's passion about the dynamic state of the insurance industry and how it can bring new risk solutions to companies.   Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. Our guest is Sierra Signorelli, CEO of U.S. and Commercial Insurance at Zurich and one of this year's Spencer Funding Their Future Gala Honorees. But first… [:42] RIMS-CRMP Workshop. We are delighted to announce that on August 27th and 28th, RIMS President Manny Padilla will be leading the two-day in-person workshop at St. John's University at 101 Astor Place in New York City. A link to the registration is in this episode's show notes. [1:02] RIMS-CRMP Virtual Workshops. The next RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA will be held virtually on July 21st and 22nd. Registration links are in this episode's notes. [1:14] We have a summertime webinar. On July 16th, Zurich will present "Too Hot to Ignore: Heat-Related Injuries and Workers' Compensation." Register at RIMS.org/webinars and via the link in this episode's show notes. [1:29] Also on the webinars page, you will see a two-part series hosted by the RIMS Membership Department. The "Classroom to Career" webinar series highlights how RIMS equips students with the knowledge, skills, and connections needed to thrive in risk management careers. [1:44] Participants will gain insights into industry trends, career pathways, and practical tools that help them confidently step into the evolving world of risk management after graduation. These sessions will be hosted on September 1st and 9th. [1:58] These sessions are member exclusives and are complimentary for RIMS members, of course. So, if you are interested in becoming a member, this would be the time. Visit RIMS.org/membership. [2:07] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration will open in July. Be on the lookout for the call for nominations for the RIMS ERM Global Award of Distinction. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026 in July for that announcement. [2:29] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today! [2:48] On with the Show! Our guest today is one of the modern trailblazers of risk and insurance. She is Sierra Signorelli, the CEO of U.S. and Commercial Insurance at Zurich. She is also one of this year's Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future honorees. [3:08] Sierra will receive her honor at the Waldorf Astoria in New York City on September 17th at the Spencer Funding Their Future Gala. [3:16] Sierra is here today to discuss her career development, her career journey, how it evolved into a global leadership role, and some words of wisdom for the next generation of risk and insurance talent. She has a lot of great insight and takeaways for us all. Let's get to it! [3:37] Interview! Sierra Signorelli, Welcome to RIMScast! [3:47] Justin and Sierra discuss longtime mutual friend Marya Propis. Sierra says their paths crossed early in their careers at AIG. They got to know each other through the Women's Executive Leadership Initiative Program. [4:09] Sierra says quite a few exceptional women in important roles in our industry came out of that program cohort. It's fantastic to come back together with Marya for this event. [4:37] Sierra studied environmental science. She tries to live and work with a sense of purpose. In university, she wanted to make the world a better place with environmental science. [4:58] Sierra says there are areas of overlap between insurance and environmental science. Her initial work out of school was about understanding changing weather patterns, flooding, epidemiology, chemistry, liability, and toxic tort. She leans on what she studied. [5:33] Sierra says that in school, they studied Earth Systems Science. Much of the modeling they did in school is the same modeling that Cat modelers do at Zurich. [6:04] Sierra first worked at an environmental engineering consulting firm. A colleague left to join a new company. He called her to come and interview. It hadn't been on her mind, but on his recommendation, she interviewed. Meeting the people, Sierra was intrigued. [7:08] Sierra says once she joined, she never looked back. She joined as an underwriter doing environmental insurance, so it tied to her background. It felt like it was her own little business. It was her responsibility to build a portfolio of business and build relationships with brokers. [7:37] Sierra says it was fascinating. The industry gives lots of training, both industry-led and within companies. The opportunity to learn was fun. Sierra felt it was a great place to start to build a career. [8:20] Sierra has had a few meaningful career pivots. As an underwriter, transitioning to her first manager role was a big step. It taught her that you have to have sponsorship or support within an organization to get the next roles. [8:47] Sierra says it was a big step from being an individual contributor to leading a much larger team. Having somebody willing to put that on her was really important. She will be forever grateful for that first step. [9:12] Sierra says the next meaningful step was from running a business in a region to being a CUO for one of the businesses globally. The organization restructured and put Sierra across lines of business she had no expertise in. That was a huge shift for her. [9:40] Sierra was no longer the deep expert, but she had to lead a team of experts and be credible with those individuals. Most of them had 30 or 40 years of experience. Sierra was in her early 40s. It was a fantastic opportunity that somebody was brave enough to give her. [10:09] Shortly after, Sierra moved from New York to Asia. It was quite a difference. She took that step because she was in a global role. She says, even though she traveled a lot and she's curious about people and cultures, it's not until you sit somewhere that you really experience it. [10:39] Moving overseas and being on the receiving end of New York gave Sierra an appreciation for sitting in the market. At that company, all brilliant things came from New York, and the rest of them had to figure out how they added value. The time difference was a challenge. [11:24] Sierra says the time difference has a huge impact on your life. The company wanted to become more global and had placed executives all over the world in different hubs. When you have 3,000 people in one area, everything is time-zone-centric to them. [12:01] As a global leader, in another time zone, you have to be comfortable not participating in everything and having people who represent you on your behalf, knowing when you really need to engage. You need to know to move the time if you won't be coherent at 3:00 a.m. [12:24] Sierra went back and forth once a month from Asia to New York to do Business Unit Reviews. It takes a lot out of you. The world has changed, and she does many more video meetings. Global travel has an impact on quality of life. [13:00] During those years, Sierra was raising children. They started pre-school and kindergarten in Asia. Sierra says she couldn't possibly do it unless her husband was on board; he had a career that was more flexible, and he was willing to step up. That's a family discussion to have. [14:03] A Quick Break! There are so many other wonderful RIMS events coming up in 2026. The Annual Florida RIMS Educational Conference will be held from July 28th through August 1st at the lovely Ritz-Carlton in Naples, Florida. A link to the event is in this episode's show notes. [14:22] Register now for the Second Annual RIMS Texas Regional Conference, which will be held from August 10th through the 12th at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk. Visit RIMS.org/Events for registration information. [14:36] The hotel cutoff date was July 10th. Reservations may still be made after the hotel cutoff date, subject to availability; however, the negotiated group rate is no longer guaranteed, so reserve now. [14:48] The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information. [15:00] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. The agenda is live, and registration is open. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information. [15:16] Save the dates: October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are open, and sponsorship opportunities are still available. Advance registration is open now. [15:33] Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni. [15:47] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. Registration opens in July. [15:58] Be on the lookout for an announcement about submissions for the RIMS Global ERM Award of Distinction. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026.  [16:08] Folks, we're already looking toward RISKWORLD 2027, which will be held over four days in New Orleans, Louisiana, from April 18th through the 21st. RIMS members can exclusively register by September 4th for the best rate. [16:22] Get first access to the hotel block. Hotel reservations open on October 28th, ahead of public registration. Sitting this out is the real risk! The link to registration is in this episode's show notes. [16:35] Let's Return to Our Interview with Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala Honoree Sierra Signorelli! [17:01] Sierra says when she was in Asia, she had a global role. It highlighted how you speak, how you engage, and how you listen in different cultures is hugely important. You can't assume. It's always good to listen and then ask, and then replay back. [17:23] Sierra learned some painful lessons just thinking that silence and people nodding along means that they agree. She says she often talks about the importance of listening to colleagues, customers, and broker partners. [17:45] It's important not to make quick assumptions but to listen first and ask questions so that you have a good understanding of the colleagues you are working with and their needs. [18:00] Justin says a keynote at RISKWORLD 2019 said that when she spoke in Asian nations and asked a question of the audience, she learned that she had to wait and make eye contact with the audience to know if it was alright to move on to the next point or get them to speak up. [18:30] This speaker had learned that there is somewhat of a cultural reluctance in Asia to say what's on your mind. Sierra says that may be true, but you often don't get questions, so you have to think about what questions people might have and make sure that you raise them. [18:53] Sierra shares an example. They were rolling out global pricing tools. The U.S. would raise their hand that they don't like this or that. The same with the UK. Maybe Germany doesn't adopt it. Asia was seamless. They just rolled it out. No questions. Then a broker revealed a big issue. [19:31] Sierra realized she had to go back and talk with her team, so they could march forward. Having that understanding and making sure you're engaging appropriately with the culture is critical to having a successful business and being successful with the teams locally. [20:03] Justin asks that as Sierra ascended to that leadership role, did she find that she was one of the few women in executive leadership roles along the way? [20:23] Sierra says that early in her career, she was quite fortunate that there were quite a number of women leaders. In the group she worked with when she was in New York, there were several women running businesses. She worked for a woman. [20:43] Many of the women had families. Sierra had just started to have a family. Seeing them able to run these businesses, have a family, and not seem like all the wheels were coming off, seeming very normal and successful in her view, kept Sierra going. [21:01] Sierra says having role models and seeing other women do it is absolutely critical. It feels like you can do it when you see somebody else doing it. Having other people to talk to about how you navigate it is very important. [21:17] Sierra says, That being said, you have these groups, but overall, she finds that she's often the only woman in the room in meetings, and more broadly, in Asia. If she looks at the executive committee at Zurich, there are 12 executives, six male and six female. [21:42] Sierra says there are bright spots. We're making progress, but in some of the mid-level management roles, you don't see the same split. You see women falling off at a certain level. [22:19] Sierra says we have a Women's Innovation Network that she sponsors for her group. She has always tried to be a great support to women in our industry. She has given support to women along the way and helped them navigate to get to where they are. [23:00] Sierra says if you want to be authentic, you have to make difficult decisions. It goes hand in hand. If you just take every easy decision, it would be very difficult to be authentic. She would encourage you not to shy away from challenging decisions and not to put them off. [23:26] That's easier said than done. When Sierra looks at her to-do list in the morning, if there's something on that list she really doesn't want to do, she does it first. Otherwise, it just falls further down the list, and then goes to the list for tomorrow. [23:47] Those difficult conversations are never as bad as you work them up in your head to be. Just do it and get past it. If you make that a habit, then you tend not to shy away from having the right discussions. It's never as difficult as you can make it out to be in your head. [24:09] Sierra says one of her colleagues at Zurich in the U.S. often says, "Be kind, not nice." Being nice does not serve anyone well. If you don't give people feedback, or don't give them the full story because you want to be nice, it doesn't make sense. [24:32] If you're going to give feedback or make a change, be kind. That purpose helps people move forward and take action. Inaction is the bigger risk than taking action, jumping in, and adapting anywhere you need to adapt, as you go. [25:02] Justin cites a friend of Sierra's, and recent RIMScast guest, Johnell Holly, who said he chooses the hard challenges first and tries to knock them off the list. [25:24] Justin restates Sierra: your authentic self is shown when you make those difficult decisions. That's a great takeaway for the RIMScast audience. Sierra adds that it's important to take positions so that people understand what you stand for as a leader or an individual. [25:53] Sierra says in an organization, people are always going to decide what you stand for. If you don't make it clear, it creates a vacuum, and they'll make assumptions. Sometimes people are tentative or worried about taking a stand. [26:06] Sierra says it's far less risky to take that stand and make it clear what you stand for, because people are going to make an assumption anyway, and they're more likely to get it wrong if you leave it to them to sort out. [26:31] Sierra says she spends a lot of time meeting with customers and brokers. She gets energy from it. It grounds her in reality, which is important if the company wants to add value. They need to understand how things are landing, and what problems they are solving for. [26:53] One of the things that keeps Sierra in this industry, and what she loves about what they do, is that they have the opportunity to help solve some of the world's most complex challenges. [27:06] To do that, they have to get out and talk to people who are facing the challenges, and understand what it means for their business. [27:14] Sierra says, it's also important to spend time with your people. Sierra is in the Chicago office, and when she walks around the floor, she can meet the teams. She loves when they come up and tell her about a big win or something they're building on in the market. [27:39] Another Quick Break! The Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala 2026 will be held on September 17th in New York City at the Waldorf Astoria. This year, Spencer will honor Sierra Signorelli of Zurich and our recent guest, Marya Propis of RT Specialty. [28:01] A link to the Gala is in this episode's show notes. Sponsorship opportunities are still available. [28:14] We have reached the deadline for the Spencer Educational Foundation's Risk Manager on Campus submissions. Grant awardees, colleges, and universities are typically notified in September. [28:22] General Grants are open, and the application deadline is July 30th. Internship Grant applications open on August 15th and close on October 15th. [28:33] Links to each of these grants are in this episode's show notes. Visit SpencerEd.org for more information. [28:42] Let's Conclude Our Interview with Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala Honoree Sierra Signorelli! [28:57] Justin congratulates Sierra once again on being honored at the Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala, which will be on September 17th at the world-famous Waldorf Astoria. [29:07] Sierra says she is looking forward to the event. She has been very fortunate to have amazing people who have helped, either giving her great advice through her career, or who have sponsored her, supported her, or advocated for her as she took the next steps in her career. [29:43] Sierra says, it's great to be recognized. As she is recognized, it should be recognition for all of those people who were bold enough to support her, especially early in her career. [30:02] Sierra says Zurich has a long history of engaging with the Spencer Educational Foundation. Zurich's beliefs align with what Spencer is trying to achieve. Zurich believes in bringing a diverse group of people into our industry, and more young people into our industry. [30:23] Sierra says we need to continue to bring new people in. As we look at some of the changes we have as an industry, becoming more digital, leaning more on insights, and reshaping how we show up as an industry, it's a great time for young people to join our industry. [30:47] Sierra says she thinks the industry is undersold. It's a fantastic industry to build a career. She says most people who come into the industry don't leave. It's just convincing them from the beginning.   [31:02] Sierra says, from a Zurich perspective, we have a really robust apprenticeship program that we sponsor to bring youth into and help them gain experience: both on-the-job experience and instructional experience through a two-year program. [31:26] Sierra says that for Zurich, supporting programs such as the Spencer Educational Foundation is a natural fit in continuing to help bring talent into our industry. [31:38] The other 2026 Honoree, Marya Propis, was recently on the show and was one of the first 50 RIMScast guests. Sierra says she and Marya worked together years ago. They also were part of a fantastic sponsored women's program, the Women's Executive Leadership Initiative. [32:14] Sierra says several women who are in key roles in our industry came through that program. It's fantastic to see the success of some of those women, including Marya, and to be honored together in 2026. [32:44] Sierra says it should be a good evening and really nice to reconnect with Marya after having been overseas for quite some time. [33:00] Sierra is also a board member of the St. John's University School of Risk Management and is deeply involved in developing future talent. [33:16] Sierra says it's a really exciting time for our industry. The world of risk is very dynamic now. [33:31] Our capabilities to harness insights and data to streamline what we do to be more efficient to work with, all coming together at the same time, is a huge opportunity to raise the bar to add greater value to companies as they think about how they manage this risk landscape. [34:00] For Sierra, it's an exciting time to bring new perspectives in and entice young people to look at a career in insurance. Sierra repeats that most people who come into our industry don't leave. People leave companies, but they tend to take other insurance roles. [34:30] Sierra says, we just need to get more people interested in what we do and to bring new perspectives and new skillsets into what we do. I know that people will stay once they're here. [35:00] Speaking of knowledge transfer, Sierra says that there are lots of people with many years of experience who want to invest the time with younger people to pass that knowledge on. They don't want it to be lost. [35:19] For people who are curious and want to come in and build a career, it's an amazing opportunity to be able to work with some of the people who have this experience, as well as working with new technologies and capabilities. [35:35] The Waldorf Astoria in New York City has been newly renovated. When people gather at the Waldorf for the Spencer Gala on September 17th to celebrate leaders like Sierra and Marya, they're also investing in the future of the profession. [36:06] Sierra says, first and foremost, she feels fortunate that she's had great support from individuals and also from working for a great company that allows her to do what she does at such a large scale. [36:44] Sierra says the people who sit on the team at Zurich are the shining stars who give us the brand that we have and the capabilities that we have. She would hope that she leaves a legacy that shows that she's helped to improve and raise the bar for what we do as an industry. [37:19] Sierra says that's what she's most passionate about. She thinks that as an industry we can do more. [37:26] We're on the cusp of something great with all of these different dynamics, whether they're the factors of risk that are becoming far greater, or the capabilities we can bring to the table to help the world and companies solve problems. [37:45] Sierra says, if I leave a legacy that I helped some of the building blocks to get us there, I would feel quite good about that, in addition to helping to build talent in our industry, which is something that I'm particularly passionate about. [38:03] Justin says it is a well-deserved honor, and I'm so happy for you. I'm very happy for Marya, as well. You both bring so much to risk management and insurance that it's only fitting that you are honored in the same year. You're both doing great work. [38:21] You're very inspiring for our listeners and, of course, anyone who is involved with Spencer, whether they are staff or beneficiaries of the foundation. You are a shining example of what we hope this profession can continue to be like. [38:40] I want to thank you so much for your time, and I look forward to seeing you in New York City on September 17th, when you accept your award. [38:53] Special thanks again to Sierra Signorelli of Zurich for joining us here on RIMScast. We congratulate her on being named an honoree at this year's Spencer Funding Their Future Gala, which will be held on September 17th in Manhattan at the fabulous Waldorf Astoria. [39:14] Visit SpencerEd.org for more information and be sure to check out recent RIMScast episodes with another honoree from this year, Marya Propis, and Spencer Board Chair, Johnell Holly. Links are in this episode's show notes. [39:30] Plug Time! Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information. [39:47] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [40:04] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [40:17] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org. [40:30] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!   Links: Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026 RIMS Texas Regional Conference 2026 | Aug. 10‒12 in San Antonio | Register Now! RISKWORLD 2027 Registration | RIMS members can lock in 2026 rates now through Sept. 4 2026 Florida RIMS Educational Conference | July 28‒Aug. 1 | Register Now ChicagoLand Risk Forum | Sept. 24, 2026 RIMS Western Regional Conference — Oct. 4‒7, 2026 | Seattle, WA | Register Today. 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Full RIMS-CRMP Prep Course Schedule See the full calendar of RIMS Virtual Workshops   Upcoming RIMS Webinars: RIMS.org/Webinars "Too Hot To Ignore: Heat-Related Injuries and Workers' Compensation" | July 16 | Presented by Zurich "RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 1" | Sept 1 "RIMS Student Series: Classroom to Career Part 2" | Sept 9   Related RIMScast Episodes: Spencer Honoree "Marya Propis: From Industry Leader to Talent Champion" "Choosing the Challenge with Johnell Holly, Spencer Educational Foundation Board Chair" "Risk Management Momentum with Tim Ryan" (2025 Spencer Honoree) "The Strengths of DE&I Initiatives with Lilian Vanvieldt-Gray of Alliant Insurance Services" (2024 Spencer Honoree)   Sponsored RIMScast Episodes: "48 Hours From a Storm: What to Do Before A Hurricane Strikes" | Sponsored by Global Risk Consultants, a TÜV SÜD Company (New!) 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RIMS Virtual Workshops On-Demand Webinars RIMS-Certified Risk Management Professional (RIMS-CRMP) RISK PAC | RIMS Advocacy RIMS Strategic & Enterprise Risk Center RIMS-CRMP Stories — Featuring RIMS President Manny Padilla!   RIMS Events, Education, and Services: RIMS Risk Maturity Model®   Sponsor RIMScast: Contact sales@rims.org or pd@rims.org for more information.   Want to Learn More? Keep up with the podcast on RIMS.org, and listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.   Have a question or suggestion? Email: Content@rims.org.   Join the Conversation! Follow @RIMSorg on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.   About our guest: Sierra Signorelli, CEO of U.S. and Commercial Insurance at Zurich Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future 2026 Honoree   Production and engineering provided by Podfly.

Fa un any que va deixar la competició professional, però aquest diumenge Guillem Pujol tornarà a nedar una prova molt especial per a ell: la Travessia Yasuji Fusano de Lloret. Pujol assegura que és una oportunitat per retrobar-se amb la gent de casa i amb una de les travessies que més gaudeix. «És molt especial per a mi, ja que és el memorial de Yassuji Fusano, que va ser entrenador meu quan era petit a la piscina de l’Olympic».Guillem Pujol Tot i haver-se retirat, Pujol continua molt vinculat a les aigües obertes. Explica que segueix entrenant-se i també que actualment és el president del Comitè d’Aigües Obertes de la Federació Catalana de Natació. A més, reconeix que, enguany, competirà sobretot per gaudir de l’ambient però sense renunciar al seu esperit competitiu. «Intentaré competir diumenge, i si puc intentar guanyar o posar-ho difícil a la gent. Allà estarem donant guerra».Guillem Pujol El nedador també anima a tothom a participar-hi. Destaca que els 1.500 metres són una distància molt assequible per a qualsevol persona amb un mínim de preparació, i també, que l’ambient que s’hi viu, fa que valgui molt la pena. «Que s’animin a gaudir de l’experiència i de l’ambient que es crea. A Lloret, a més, el paisatge també ajuda».Guillem Pujol En aquesta edició, la travessia comptarà amb un màxim de 300 dorsals disponibles, en una nedada popular en què inicialment eren molt pocs els que hi participaven. «El món de la natació cada vegada va a més i especialment les aigües obertes, és una tendència que s’està explotant molt». Guillem Pujol La travessia de Yasuji Fusano se celebrarà aquest diumenge a Lloret i tornarà a reunir nedadors provinents de tot el territori, en la que serà ja la 40a edició d’una de les cites esportives més emblemàtiques de l’estiu.

Bull Markets, Investor Hubris, and the Hidden Risks of Annuities Are you feeling smarter about your investments after years of strong market returns? In this episode of The Financial Hour of The Tom Dupree Show, Tom Dupree and Mike Johnson explore a critical truth that even legendary investors like Benjamin Graham learned the hard way: bull markets can create dangerous overconfidence. For those thinking about retirement or already in retirement in Kentucky, this discussion reveals why understanding what you own—and maintaining investment humility—matters more than chasing the latest “simple solution.” Unlike mass-market advisory firms that promote one-size-fits-all products, Dupree Financial Group emphasizes personalized investment management and portfolio transparency. This episode examines the psychology of market success, the realities of annuity contracts, and why direct access to portfolio managers who show you exactly what you own provides than opaque insurance products. Key Takeaways: Investment Lessons from Market History Bull Markets Create False Confidence: Even Benjamin Graham, Warren Buffett’s mentor, nearly lost everything after early success made him believe he “had Wall Street by the tail”—a lesson for today’s investors experiencing strong returns Market Success Often Includes Luck: Quick wins can lead to psychological distortions, especially when you’ve “unknowingly broken the rules of the game but won anyway” The Dangers of Autopilot Investing: Index funds and passive strategies mean following a “prescribed path that lots of other people are going,” with little thought given to how portfolios are composed Annuities Are Complex Insurance Products: Despite being marketed as simple solutions, annuities involve counterparty risk, surrender penalties, and fine print that rarely delivers promised returns Portfolio Transparency Is Powerful: Understanding exactly what you own—seeing individual stocks and bonds rather than packaged products—provides genuine comfort during market volatility Fear-Based Investing Creates Poor Outcomes: Investment decisions driven solely by fear (whether fear of loss or fear of missing out) typically underperform thoughtful, process-driven strategies The Benjamin Graham Story: When Success Breeds Dangerous Confidence Mike Johnson shares a compelling historical example that resonates powerfully with today’s investment environment. Benjamin Graham—the father of value investing and Warren Buffett’s teacher—started his investment firm in the Roaring Twenties with $400,000. Within just three years, he turned that into $2.5 million. As Mike explains: “Because of the great success over that short period of time, he knew that he knew it all, had Wall Street by the tail. He was thinking about owning a large yacht, a villa in Newport, race horses. And he said, ‘I was too young to realize that I’d caught a bad case of hubris.'” The consequences? When Graham thought the worst of the 1930 market crash was over, he went all in—and even used leverage. The result nearly wiped him out personally, and his firm had to be bailed out by a partner. By 1932, his portfolio had lost over 50%, dropping from $2.5 million back to just $375,000. Tom Dupree emphasizes the universal lesson: “The market can humble you real quick. You always have to view past successes in the lens of ‘okay, you may have had a good run, a good success, and some of that could be luck.'” Why This Matters for Kentucky Retirement Planning Today For those thinking about retirement who have benefited from recent market strength, this story serves as a critical reminder. Mike notes: “In the environment we’ve been in for the last several years in the market, some people have made life-changing money. Some people have made good returns and they got to their goal quicker than they thought they would.” The question becomes: How do you respect the gift the market has given you? Through careful analysis with a local financial advisor who can provide personalized portfolio analysis rather than assuming past success will automatically continue. The Problem with “Autopilot” Investing: Index Funds and Groupthink Tom Dupree delivers a powerful critique of passive index investing that challenges conventional wisdom. When Mike mentions autopilot investing, Tom responds: “Autopilot isn’t ever autopilot. It’s a path that someone else has selected that you’re going on and you’re going on it because everybody else is.” He continues with a critical observation: “In the case of an index, it’s an arbitrarily picked index of, say, 500 stocks that meet a certain size criteria, certain management criteria. What you don’t understand frequently is that by going on autopilot, you’re actually being told what to do. You’re not just going with the flow—there’s almost no thought going into it. There’s no real investing.” Mike adds: “That’s the definition of mediocrity. Even if the return is good and everybody’s getting a good return because the market’s doing well, it’s still mediocrity because you’re not spending any time thinking about what you’re doing or how you’re doing it.” The Windfall Effect: Why Unearned Money Often Gets Lost Mike shares another psychological insight relevant to both inheritance and market windfalls: “We’ve seen it when someone inherits a windfall unexpectedly. A lot of times you see bad decisions with that money. Not all the time, but a lot of times. They’ve never had that kind of money before. They didn’t earn it. How can you respect it that way? How can you fear it?” This applies directly to portfolios that have grown significantly without the owner fully understanding why or how. As Mike notes: “You don’t have the respect that also goes along with having made it. That’s why you see somebody that’s gradually built something over a long period of time—you don’t have that dopamine hit.” For Kentucky retirement planning, this suggests the importance of understanding your investment philosophy and how each holding contributes to your goals, rather than simply celebrating portfolio growth without comprehension. Annuities: The “Simple Solution” That Rarely Delivers The second half of the episode tackles annuities—insurance products increasingly marketed to those in or approaching retirement. Mike presents sobering statistics: “In 2025, more Americans than ever are going to be turning 65—about 4.2 million US citizens will be turning 65 this year.” He connects this demographic trend with research from Allianz: “64% of those surveyed were more worried about running out of money than death.” Tom responds: “That’s a really frightening comment on where a lot of people are.” This fear creates demand for products marketed as “easy solutions”—but the reality is far more complex. Types of Annuities and Their Real-World Performance Mike breaks down the main annuity categories: Index Annuities (Currently Most Popular): These promise you can earn up to a certain percentage annually without losing principal if markets decline. However, Mike explains the reality: “What you generally see is the rate of return on an index annuity averages pretty close to what the going CD rate is. That’s just the math of it.” The problem lies in the fine print. Mike offers a detailed example: “Let’s say it’s a one-year point-to-point, and they say over the year you can make up to 6%. If you take that on a monthly basis, that’s half a percent a month. If in January the market goes up 1%, they credit you half a percent. But then come December, the market goes down 7%. It’s still up for the year, but December wiped out your credit. Even though the market is up for the year, you’re credited with zero.” Immediate Annuities: The “purest form” where you give an insurance company principal in exchange for monthly income. Mike notes: “In those scenarios, you’re essentially getting your own money back for 15, 18 years, and then you start coming out ahead—not even taking into account time value of money.” Fixed Annuities: Similar to CDs inside a tax-deferred wrapper. The primary risk? “The insurance company is able to use the money to earn a return, and in exchange for what they’re paying you. The risk that you’re agreeing to take on is inflation risk.” Variable Annuities: Once popular in the 1990s and early 2000s but less common now due to previous issues at major insurers. The Hidden Risks Nobody Tells You About Annuities Beyond the obvious issues like surrender penalties (typically 7 years, but Mike has seen contracts as long as 14 years), several critical risks receive little attention: Counterparty Risk: Who’s Really Backing Your Annuity? Tom explains: “You have the insurance company as the counterparty, and the insurance company is investing its own money in corporate bonds, and some of those are going into these AI data centers.” Mike expands on this: “Most people think when they have an annuity from an insurance company that it’s similar to something AAA because it’s insured. But what’s it insured by? It’s insured by securities that are backing it that could have trouble.” Tom recalls historical examples: “I’ve seen it happen before. AIG, Executive Life before that—lots of it during my career. Hartford got in trouble with writing variable annuities.” The Insurance Company Squeeze: When Spreads Get Tight Mike reveals a current market concern: “There’s huge demand for bonds, and at the same time, the hyperscalers financing data centers are looking for buyers. The marginal buyer, the largest buyer, has been insurance companies of the data center debt.” The consequence? “Spreads are the tightest they’ve been since the nineties. They’re being priced for perfection, priced almost like a Treasury. But we’re talking about bonds that are backed by a data center with a revenue stream that’s not yet to be determined.” Tom summarizes: “When the spreads aren’t attractive, they’ll go out on the risk spectrum and take more risks to try to get a little more spread there. It’s a vicious cycle.” The Commission Structure Nobody Mentions Tom notes: “We didn’t even talk about the commission part of the annuity structure—the fact that it’s a very, very heavily commission-structured product.” This contrasts sharply with Dupree Financial Group’s approach: “We are fee-based, and it takes all incentive to not—well, we’re fiduciaries also, so we must by law do what’s best for the client. That aligns our interest with the clients as well, which gives you a different product.” The Power of Portfolio Transparency: Seeing What You Actually Own Throughout the episode, Tom and Mike return to a core principle that distinguishes personalized investment management from packaged products. Tom explains: “Our style of investing is that when you get your statement, you are looking under the hood because it’s right there. You’re seeing what your money’s invested in. You’re not looking at an investment that’s invested your money in something else that you can’t see.” Mike emphasizes why this matters over time: “You gain an understanding and a comfort level that’s not just taking somebody’s word for it. You’re seeing it with your own eyes over a long period of time. You see the income, you see price movement. You see these different aspects, and really, it makes the thing come to life.” This transparency provides advantages that no annuity contract or index fund can match: You know exactly which companies you own shares in You understand why each holding is in your portfolio You can see income generation in real-time, not theoretical returns You develop genuine comfort during market volatility because you know what you own You avoid the “black box” problem of packaged products Tom adds: “We’ve always invested with people typically where we show them what is under the hood, what they own. It’s not a package product. It’s not an ETF, it’s not a mutual fund, it isn’t an annuity. It’s not some structured note. It’s bonds and stocks for the most part.” Learning from Mistakes: The Value of Experience Tom shares an honest perspective on how Dupree Financial Group has developed its approach: “There’s nothing like mistakes to help you with financial stuff. Mistakes are valuable if you can limit them to a certain amount to where it doesn’t knock you out of the box. But one of the best investing tools is making mistakes.” He continues: “We’ve learned a lot in our firm with companies that we invested in that were just mistakes. We didn’t think they were mistakes at the time, but over time, you know, it was. And what we began to learn is: Don’t go there again. Let’s not do that one again.” This experiential learning creates pattern recognition: “When you see something again, you see similarities and differences and you’re like, ‘Okay, that’s an opportunity.’ You just learn.” This accumulated wisdom—built over 47 years in Tom’s case—represents a significant advantage of working with experienced local financial advisors rather than being assigned an investment counselor at a large national firm who may lack this depth of historical perspective. The Critical Questions to Ask About Your Retirement Portfolio Mike provides a framework for evaluating your current situation: “You have to pause and view it in the context of you, specifically your situation. There’s always going to be people richer than you. There’s always going to be people that have more of something than you have, and you have to be careful of viewing your situation through their context.” He offers specific questions: “Do the numbers work for you at where they are?” “Do a critical analysis of what the investments are” “Is there an investment plan?” “Or is it—has it just been on autopilot and the autopilot’s taking you where you wanted to go?” “You need to reevaluate where things are today” Mike emphasizes the market context: “This market—people who have had assets invested in the stock market for the last several years—you’ve been given a gift. Generally speaking, a gift in terms of the returns. And you need to respect the gift.” How do you respect it? “By analyzing what it is that you have and thinking critically about how can this be used. Is it being utilized properly in terms of an investment mix, in terms of just an investment approach?” Fear vs. Process: Making Better Investment Decisions A recurring theme throughout the episode is the danger of emotion-driven investing. Mike warns: “You have to be very concerned about allowing your investment decision to be driven only by fear. Yes. And to the point we were making in the first half, having a process—an investment process, an investment plan—that is dynamic enough to change when things need to change.” He identifies two common fear patterns: Fear of Loss: “Think about what fear drives you to do generally. You can look at fear in a situation like an annuity where you leave potential earnings on the table out of fear.” Fear of Missing Out: “And then sometimes there’s fear of missing out in an up market and you can jump in when you shouldn’t.” Tom adds: “Fear is a good thing to have in relation to investing.” Mike clarifies: “Respect. I would call it respect. A respect that things can happen.” This balanced perspective—maintaining respect for market risks while following a thoughtful process—characterizes the approach at Dupree Financial Group. Review their market commentary archive to see how this philosophy has been applied across various market cycles. When Annuities Actually Make Sense (It’s Rare, But It Happens) Despite the episode’s critical examination of annuities, Tom shares an important caveat: “I have seen annuities where they actually make sense for the person. And in those instances, keep it.” He shares a specific example: “I had a client one time that did buy an annuity. It grew in value. He passed away and his wife received a significantly higher payout than what would have happened if we had just invested in investments because the market had gone down, but the value of the annuity had gone up.” Tom reflects on the outcome: “That was a case where I feel like that lady was blessed. I’ve seen it happen too where there have been clients that I feel like—and the only way I can put it is—it’s like God touched them in ways that I can’t explain. Just in ways that it’s just a blessing.” The key takeaway? “You need to have an unbiased analysis of the contract. What are the terms? Does it actually accomplish your goals?” If you currently own an annuity, Mike encourages: “You can give us a call and we can talk with you about the specifics of your contract.” Why “Simple Solutions” Rarely Work for Retirement Mike concludes with a fundamental truth about retirement investing: “Investing’s never just a simple one decision solution. It’s a process. It has to be because things change. Markets change, people’s lives change, and there has to be a process behind what you’re doing.” Tom reinforces the warning: “Whenever they tell you you don’t have to look under the hood with this investment, you better look under the hood.” This principle applies equally to: Index funds marketed as “set it and forget it” solutions Annuities sold as eliminating all market risk Any investment product that promises complexity has been eliminated Mass-market approaches that treat all investors identically For those thinking about retirement or already in retirement in Kentucky, the alternative is working with advisors who provide direct access to portfolio managers, show you exactly what you own, and maintain a process-driven approach that adapts to changing circumstances while remaining grounded in time-tested principles. Ready to See What’s Really Under the Hood of Your Portfolio? If you’re concerned that recent market success may have created blind spots in your retirement planning—or if you’re evaluating whether an annuity truly serves your interests—Dupree Financial Group offers complimentary portfolio reviews for Kentucky residents thinking about retirement or already in retirement. During your consultation, you’ll receive: Honest assessment of your current portfolio’s strengths and vulnerabilities Analysis of whether you’re taking appropriate risks given your life stage Evaluation of any annuity contracts you currently own (unbiased review of actual terms) Direct conversation with experienced portfolio managers who personally manage client assets Clear explanation of what you own and why—no black boxes or packaged products Discussion of how to respect and protect the gains the market has provided Don’t let bull market confidence create blind spots in your retirement plan. Schedule your complimentary portfolio review today. Call Dupree Financial Group at (859) 233-0400 or visit www.dupreefinancial.com to schedule directly from our homepage. Experience the difference that personalized investment management, portfolio transparency, and direct access to portfolio managers makes in your Kentucky retirement planning journey. Frequently Asked Questions About Bull Markets, Annuities, and Retirement Investing What does it mean that “bull markets make you feel smarter than you really are”? This phrase captures how extended periods of market gains can create false confidence in investment abilities. As the Benjamin Graham story illustrates, even legendary investors can mistake favorable market conditions for personal genius. For those in or approaching retirement in Kentucky, this means strong recent returns shouldn’t lead to overconfidence or excessive risk-taking. Working with a local financial advisor who provides objective perspective helps distinguish between skill and fortunate timing. Why did Benjamin Graham nearly lose everything despite being Warren Buffett’s teacher? After turning $400,000 into $2.5 million in just three years during the 1920s, Graham developed what he called “hubris”—thinking he “had Wall Street by the tail.” When he believed the 1930 crash was over, he went all in using leverage. The market continued falling, and his portfolio dropped back to just $375,000. The lesson: even brilliant investors can be humbled by markets when success breeds overconfidence. His partner had to bail out the firm, and Graham didn’t take a salary for years while making clients whole. What’s wrong with index fund investing for retirement? While index funds work for some investors, Tom Dupree notes they represent “a path that someone else has selected that you’re going on because everybody else is.” There’s “no real investing” happening—just following an arbitrary selection of stocks based on size criteria. Mike Johnson adds this is “the definition of mediocrity” because “you’re not spending any time thinking about what you’re doing.” For Kentucky retirement planning, personalized investment management provides understanding of actual holdings rather than passive acceptance of whatever an index contains. How do index annuities actually work, and why do they underperform? Index annuities promise upside participation (often “up to 6% annually”) with downside protection. However, the mechanics rarely deliver. In a typical point-to-point structure, if the market gains 1% monthly for 11 months (crediting you 0.5% monthly due to caps), you’d have 5.5% credited. But if December sees a 7% decline, your entire credit gets wiped out even though the market is up for the year. The result: returns typically match CD rates despite the complex structure. The fine print and monthly/quarterly calculations favor the insurance company. What is counterparty risk with annuities? Counterparty risk refers to the possibility that the insurance company backing your annuity could face financial trouble. Insurance companies invest your principal in corporate bonds and other securities to earn returns higher than what they promise to pay you. Currently, many insurers are heavily invested in AI data center debt with unproven revenue streams. Historical examples like AIG, Executive Life, and Hartford show this isn’t theoretical—insurance companies can and do get into trouble, potentially affecting annuity values. Are there situations where annuities make sense? Yes, though they’re rare. Tom Dupree shares an example where a client’s widow received significantly more from an annuity than she would have from traditional investments because her husband passed away after the annuity grew but when markets had declined. However, these favorable outcomes are exceptions. The key is having an unbiased analysis of your specific contract terms and whether they truly accomplish your goals. If you own an annuity, Dupree Financial Group can review whether keeping it makes sense for your situation. What does it mean to “look under the hood” of your portfolio? Looking under the hood means seeing exactly what individual stocks and bonds you own rather than just seeing a packaged product name and account value. Tom Dupree explains: “When you get your statement, you are looking under the hood because it’s right there. You’re seeing what your money’s invested in, not what packaged product your money is in.” This transparency allows you to understand what companies you own, why you own them, and how they generate income—creating genuine comfort during market volatility. Why is “autopilot” investing dangerous for those approaching retirement? Autopilot investing—whether through target-date funds, robo-advisors, or simple index strategies—means following a prescribed path with little thought given to your specific situation. Tom notes you’re “actually being told what to do” rather than having a strategy tailored to your goals, timeline, and risk tolerance. As retirement nears, one-size-fits-all approaches can leave you overexposed to market declines or invested in ways that don’t generate needed income. Personalized investment management adapts to your changing life circumstances. What should I do if I’ve benefited from recent strong market returns? Mike Johnson advises: “You’ve been given a gift. Generally speaking, a gift in terms of the returns. And you need to respect the gift.” Respecting it means analyzing what you have, ensuring your investment mix still makes sense, and not assuming past success will automatically continue. Ask: “Do the numbers work for you at where they are?” and “Is there an investment plan, or has it just been on autopilot?” A complimentary portfolio review with Kentucky retirement planning specialists can provide this objective assessment. How do I know if fear is driving my investment decisions? Fear-driven investing shows up in two ways: fear of loss (leading to overly conservative choices like annuities that sacrifice potential growth) and fear of missing out (jumping into hot investments at precisely the wrong time). Both create poor outcomes. The alternative is what Tom calls “respect” for markets—acknowledging risks while following a thoughtful process. Mike emphasizes having “an investment plan that is dynamic enough to change when things need to change” rather than reacting emotionally to short-term events. What’s the difference between fee-based advisors and commission-based annuity sales? Annuities typically involve substantial commissions paid to the salesperson, creating incentives that may not align with your interests. Tom Dupree explains: “We are fee-based, and it takes all incentive to not—well, we’re fiduciaries also, so we must by law do what’s best for the client. That aligns our interest with the clients.” Fee-based structures mean advisors earn based on portfolio performance and client retention, not product sales. This fundamental difference affects which solutions get recommended. About The Financial Hour of The Tom Dupree Show The Financial Hour provides practical investment wisdom and retirement planning guidance for Kentucky residents approaching or living in retirement. Hosted by Tom Dupree, founder of Dupree Financial Group, with insights from portfolio manager Mike Johnson, each episode delivers actionable strategies based on decades of experience in personalized investment management and portfolio transparency. Listen to more episodes and read additional market commentary at www.dupreefinancial.com/podcast. The post Bull Markets, Investor Hubris, and the Hidden Risks of Annuities  appeared first on Dupree Financial.

Welcome to RIMScast. Your host is Justin Smulison, Business Content Manager at RIMS, the Risk and Insurance Management Society.   In this episode, Justin interviews Marya Propis about her career in retail brokerage, wholesale distribution, and executive leadership. Marya speaks of leaders who influenced her, how her leadership skills have changed in 30 years, and how emotional intelligence guides her as she helps young insurance professionals at RT Specialty. She also shares the importance of physical fitness and self-care in showing up at her best each day. Marya discusses the wholesale Excess and Surplus Lines marketplace in the U.S. She talks about her involvement in industry associations and the enthusiasm she has for helping students and new risk professionals. She shares information about the Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future 2026 Gala, where she will be one of two honorees. She serves as a Director of Distinction, acting as an ambassador for the Spencer Educational Foundation.   Listen for Marya's enthusiastic approach to persuasive leadership.   Key Takeaways: [:01] About RIMS and RIMScast. [:16] About this episode of RIMScast. We will be rejoined by our friend Marya Propis, President of Retail Distribution at RT Specialty and honoree at this year's Spencer's Funding Their Future Gala in New York City on September 17th. There is a lot to catch up on. But first… [:47] RIMS Virtual Workshops. The next RIMS-CRMP-FED Exam Prep with AFERM will be held on June 16th and 17th. The next RIMS-CRMP Exam Prep with PARIMA will be held virtually on July 21st and 22nd. Links to registration are in this episode's notes. [:58] We have a summertime webinar. On July 16th, Zurich will present "Too Hot to Ignore: Heat-Related Injuries and Workers' Compensation." Register at RIMS.org/webinars and via the link in this episode's show notes. [1:13] You can enroll now in the RIMS CRO Certificate Program in Advanced Enterprise Risk Management hosted by the famous James Lam. Beginning July 15th, workshops will be held bi-weekly from 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. Eastern Time. The registration link is in the show notes. [1:34] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. We want to hear from you. Submit a session proposal by June 19th to reach engaged practitioners, innovators, and leaders looking for guidance they can utilize right away. [1:52] Help define what's next for Enterprise Risk Management. Submit a session proposal by Friday, June 19th. Visit RIMS.org/ERM2026. [2:02] Folks, through the generosity of its industry partners, RIMS has launched The Foundation for Risk Management™, which provides scholarships for early-career professionals to attend RIMS events like RIMS Texas Regional Conference, RIMS Canada Conference, and RISKWORLD. [2:21] The Foundation also helps beneficiaries earn their RIMS-CRMP and fund research projects. To learn more or contribute to the Foundation, visit RIMS.org/FRM and visit the link in this episode's show notes. [2:36] RIMS is back on YouTube. Our handle is @RIMSOfficialChannel. We've got plenty of videos there, including RIMScast, RIMScast Canada video podcasts, and other informative and entertaining content from RIMS. Subscribe to the channel today! [2:56] On with the Show! Marya Propis is rejoining us on RIMScast. She is the President of Retail Distribution at RT Specialty, and she will be honored this year at the Spencer Funding their Future Gala at the Waldorf Astoria in New York City on September 17th. [3:17] We'll learn about Marya's career, her risk management philosophy, how her physical wellness fuels her progress as a risk and insurance professional, and why she feels it is critical to continue her support for women in the profession. We're going to have fun. Let's get to it! [3:39] Interview! Marya Propis, Welcome Back to RIMScast! [3:49] Since the last time Justin and Marya spoke, Marya has joined RT Specialty. She is coming up on her 6th anniversary with RT Specialty. It has been the most enjoyable and successful career chapter she has been fortunate to enjoy. [4:04] Marya says there are so many great things to talk about in terms of what's going on in the marketplace and at RT Specialty and how that pertains to Spencer. [4:20] Marya is President of Retail Distribution. She was promoted to that role several months ago. A dedicated group under her leadership is keeping a finger on the pulse of what's going on in the ultra-dynamic U.S. retail landscape. [4:47] They are always thinking of ways to be more client-centric, partner more fully with their retail clients, and think of all the places that their clients need RT to be as the top wholesale partner in the U.S. [5:08] Marya has six people on her team for a wholesaler that placed $32 billion of premium last year. But, actually, her team is the entirety of all the brokers and underwriters that work for RT Specialty. That's 1,500 people. [5:28] Marya's job is to make the brokers and underwriters who work for the team more successful every day. Her stakeholders are the market-facing, talented brokers and underwriters. They are her team. [5:46] Marya sets best practices and standards around compensation, conferences, and the way they engage. Client-centricity is very important, so Marya extends direction for it. [6:00] Marya explains how leadership style has evolved. In the first half of her career, it was all about command and control, from the top down. Telling everyone what to do has evolved positively. [6:19] Marya prides herself on having very good influence and leadership skills. She says people want to follow her direction. She had to learn a lot to go from telling people what to do to creating a path people want to follow. Being a command-and-control leader doesn't feel good. [7:00] Marya says that when we started talking about emotional intelligence as an important part of leadership, she realized she had it. She just hadn't been using it in any of her management or leadership roles. [7:11] It became more acceptable to use emotional intelligence to get your team aligned and get people thinking around the direction you need to go as a team or a firm. That's been very positive for Marya, but she couldn't flip that switch overnight. [7:30] Marya had to learn a lot to change her leadership style so people want to follow and feel that she is creating the right direction, so they can be more successful, not leading them down a path to doom and demise. [7:52] Marya says that an emphasis on emotional intelligence came hand in hand with the industry starting to pay attention to women in insurance and the lack of representation of female leadership in insurance. [8:09] Marya says that a decade ago the insurance industry started to be deliberate about realizing they didn't have many women in leadership and that there were obstacles in the industry to women being promoted and compensated at the same rate as their male colleagues. [8:31] Emotional intelligence came along with the recognition that women have a distinct and unique skill set. Emotional intelligence is a prevalent part of a woman's skill set. Women bring real value as leaders. The traits that come with that include emotional intelligence. [9:07] Justin says we have such a great group of rising risk professionals, particularly females, in the profession and the RIMScast listenership, so this is a great way to kick off this dialog.  [9:25] Marya says she has worked for a lot of great leaders. She was fortunate to work closely with many executives. You can watch a leader and learn a technique or a trait that you can add to the skill set you already have. Marya says she gets her best material from others. [10:14] Marya says Pat Ryan, who founded RT Specialty, is the absolute Superman of insurance. Any time she hears Pat Ryan talk, she leaves with a gem that she commits to do or think about, going forward. He uses an expression: "Do the right thing, because it's the right thing to do." [10:47] If you use that as a guiding principle for how you set your priorities and make decisions, based on what your retail clients need, then it's very obvious what you need to do. It has become a guiding principle for her in the way she makes decisions every day. [11:47] Marya says her scope of responsibility is just retail clients. Her colleague Leah Ohodnicki oversees carrier management. They talk all the time. There are so many of the same principles that they apply, just to different channels in the marketplace. [12:07] Marya has been a career salesperson. For her whole insurance career, she has sold stuff. She has sold capabilities and products. She sells and represents wholesale brokerage services. [12:27] Marya says no client is like another. You must see every client with fresh, objective eyes. Every client has something unique, or a competitive advantage, or something special about the way they've built their firm. Sometimes you have to look carefully to find it, but it's always there. [13:06] You have to be willing to put yourself in their shoes. How do they see the world? How is that retailer creating visibility and driving success? [13:26] Marya prides herself on being a student of who the retail client is and thinking about how to better frame partnership strategies to work with them as effectively as possible, rather than thinking about herself, RT Specialty, and all the stuff she can throw at any retail client. [13:48] In Marya's mind, the way to do it is to start by asking what they need. Where is the place that they will need RT Specialty to be more successful? Then she constructs an engagement approach around that. That's different from how she thought about it 20 years ago. [14:15] In any industry, Marya doesn't want to be a vendor. She wants to be a partner. There's a big difference in the way you have to think to be a trusted business partner. That's a very important part of Marya's personal and professional philosophy in creating partnerships. [15:13] Marya says she's very committed to the digital distribution model. It's been one of the more exciting and dynamic components of the retail channel. Marya doesn't use AI interchangeably with digital distribution. Digital distribution is where we sell things online. [15:41] Marya says AI is a technology enabler that helps us be more efficient in sales. RT Specialty has an online portal called RT Connector that has been trading E&S Specialty, Micro and Small Commercial P&C products for eight years on the digital distribution platform. [16:09] Marya says there's a newish type of retail agent in the U.S. marketplace called digital agencies. They want to trade as efficiently as possible. They want API connectivity. They're focused on a specific segment and industry, in terms of where they feel they can sell and trade. [16:31] Marya says even the way they acquire leads is very different than a traditional retail model. Marya says we're certainly not going to sell RT the same way to a digital agency as we do to a big Alpha house. They're very different. [16:51] Understand the model. Understand how that retail agent or broker is structured, and meet them where they are. With digital retail agents, it's a completely different type of retail partnership that they can build with them vs. other models they've worked successfully with. [17:18] Marya says our retail clients are always evolving and changing and buying lots of stuff, in mergers and acquisitions. They restructure. How they choose to go to market. How they're winning business. Marya loves all the learning that comes as the market and her clients evolve. [17:45] Marya says they're a wholesaler. Their digital platform will reflect the appetite and eligibility of the technology-enabled carriers that are represented on the RT Specialty platform as trading partners. [18:10] Marya says they have 130 talented binding authority teams across their U.S. platform. They know what their appetite is; they have the binding authority. That's human interaction. [18:28] Marya says RT Specialty mimics that same process with some of the same carrier partners by putting their product-specific appetite on their digital platform. [18:38] The same agent can either go to the RT binding authority underwriter or go through RT Connector. If it fits the appetite of the products on RT Connector, in five minutes, the agent can rate quote, bind, issue, e-deliver policies, surplus lines taxes, and finance premium. [19:02] Marya says she can ask agents how they want to trade the E&S specialty marketplace. There are a lot of paths they can follow that get them to the same place where they win. RT Specialty can put the right resources around that. [19:35] Marya says if a retail client brings a franchise opportunity to RT Specialty, if it's a franchise operation that's insured, RT Specialty will write it. They write lots of them in the U.S. Marya participates in risks her retail clients bring to RT. [19:52] Marya doesn't sell directly to franchises, but RT has a lot of franchises and programs in chains in their book of business. RT has the largest sports and entertainment practice in the wholesale segment in the U.S. It's a tough segment of the marketplace. [20:20] RT Specialty has invested a lot in terms of talent. RT Specialty owns the largest MGU in the marketplace. The sports are professional, amateur, and everything in between. It's a very successful market segment for RT Specialty. [20:41] Marya explains that an MGU is a Managing General Underwriter, which is different from an MGA (a Managing General Agency), which is different from a Program. Marya says this has been one of the fastest-growing segments of the specialty market in the United States. [21:09] Marya says you create a homogeneous appetite for a certain bulk of business, find a carrier partner, set up a Program, and open your storefront and either distribute through retailers or wholesalers. Some are direct-to-insureds [21:30] Managing General Underwriter means that we would create the appetite and the guidelines. Managing General Agent means that the carrier has already defined that, and they're allowing us to put a storefront in front of that. [21:54] That's different from some of the traditional carriers that RT Specialty works with, like Lexington Insurance Company or Westchester Insurance Company. Those are carriers. That is a different solution than when RT Specialty approaches an MGU on behalf of their retail client. [22:18] Marya says anytime you have a lot of people in one place at an event, there are lots of risks associated with that: gun violence, political violence, and means of evacuation response. We have seen that time and again. [22:43] When you have a lot of people congregating for a sporting event, a demonstration, a commemoration, or other event, it's gotten much riskier when you put a lot of humans in one place. That has made that segment of the marketplace much more challenging than ever. [23:10] Marya mentions boxing matches in Vegas or the number of active shooter incidents in Vegas. Marya believes the Excess and Surplus Lines market segment is the permanent home for high-hazard risks in the U.S. It's not an escape valve. [23:42] Marya says that in her lifetime, those types of risks will never swing back to the direct admitted standard carrier side. As a wholesale broker, RT Specialty is looking to partner with carriers that have the right type of appetite to support those risks. [23:59] RT Specialty builds products, so they own MGUs, MGAs, and Programs. They invest and build products when segments of the marketplace become very tough, so they have solutions available through their brokers and underwriters to write any risk in any class of business. [24:19] A Quick Break! There are so many other wonderful RIMS events coming up in 2026. The Annual Florida RIMS Educational Conference will be held from July 28th through August 1st at the lovely Ritz-Carlton in Naples, Florida. A link to the event is in this episode's show notes. [24:37] Register now for the Second Annual RIMS Texas Regional Conference, which will be held from August 10th through 12th at the Grand Hyatt on the San Antonio River Walk. [24:48] The 11th Annual Chicagoland Risk Forum will return to the Old Post Office on Thursday, September 24th, 2026, in Chicago. Visit ChicagolandRiskForum.org for more information. [24:59] The RIMS Western Regional Conference will be held from October 4th through the 7th in Seattle, Washington. Registration is open, and you can also submit a session. Visit RIMSWesternRegional.com and the link in this episode's show notes for more information. [25:16] Save the dates October 18th through the 21st. We will be in Quebec City to celebrate the 50th Live RIMS Canada Conference. Booth sales are already open. Earlybird registration is open now. [25:31] Visit RIMSCanadaConference.ca for more information. Also, remember to check out RIMS.org/Canada for our spinoff show, RIMScast Canada, hosted by National Conference Committee Chair, Aaron Lukoni. [25:45] The RIMS ERM Conference 2026 will be held on November 19th and 20th in Columbus, Ohio. The deadline for educational content submissions is Friday, June 19th. Get submissions in now. The link is in this episode's show notes. Registration opens in July. [26:08] Let's Return to Our Interview with Marya Propis! [26:32] Justin asks about Marya incorporating workouts into her life so she can perform better as a risk and insurance professional. Justin also feels that he has missed out if he has not exercised or worked out for a certain time each week. [27:03] Mary has 35 years in the business. She travels every week. She flies a lot. She is very focused on her wellness routine. She has been an athlete her whole life, so working out is important to her. So is self-care. [27:34] Having gone through menopause and figuring out what was going sideways, physically and mentally, Marya feels good about where she is today, in her commitment to herself, supplements she takes, and understanding healthy brain function and the effects of hormones. [28:09] Marya says we know hormones have a significant impact on our ability to function, both for men and women. Marya says her lifestyle is not perfect. She eats at restaurants 80% of the time, and entertaining clients involves alcohol. [28:40] Marya loves the relationship-building, social, and personal connection side of the business. She's not going to skip drinks or dinner with anyone. But it's a place where there can be a lot of pitfalls. She doesn't subscribe to an austerity lifestyle. But she has to pick her spots, now. [29:10] Marya says she can't be dragging on Thursday morning. She still has two big days ahead of her to deliver. Marya talks about sleep quality, not just how much you get, which gets tough when you're sleeping in different hotel rooms. [29:35] Marya says, This is the way it is with the career I have chosen, and I love. She has to be much more deliberate and mindful and remind herself that in June, she is traveling 18 days. On the days she's not traveling, she knows what to do for working out and for her wellness routine. [30:24] Marya says she is open and willing to learn. She is open to trying and learning new things. She believes in supplements and vitamins. She takes different ones now than she would have taken a decade ago. You have to be a student of that, like everything else in life. [30:43] Marya says The second you start to lose the desire to learn, what's next? It's not really fun when people's mindsets change. [30:54] Marya has been a Yoga practitioner for 30 years. She does Power Vinyasa in an infrared studio. Marya says the benefits of infrared are scientifically not debatable. She says infrared is great for joints, skin, and healthy brain functioning. It amped up her Yoga routine. [31:15] Marya does TRX bodyweight exercises. Most of the hotel gyms today have a TRX setup. She loves that, since she spends a lot of time in hotels and hotel gyms. Marya does circuit training. She works with heavy weights three times a week to maintain skeletal strength. [31:53] Marya says it sounds like a lot. As an athlete, when you have to perform and deliver, it's part of the way you have to think. It's how Marya thinks. She has to show up and be her best self when she's representing RT Specialty in the marketplace. [32:14] Marya has a lot of people relying on her to be crisp and present with a great level of energy. You can't do that if you're dragging all the time. [32:40] Marya grew up in Buffalo, New York, so she's a skier. It was the first sport for her family. She played tennis in high school and college. She ran track as a sprinter. Her favorite sport is Yoga. A couple of genres of Yoga have world competitions. Mary likes vigorous, athletic Yoga. [33:34] Another Quick Break! The Spencer Educational Foundation's Risk Manager on Campus application period is now open, and it will close on June 30th. Grant awardees, colleges, and universities are typically notified in September. [34:05] General Grant applications are open, and the application deadline is July 30th. Internship Grant applications open on August 15th and close on October 15th. [34:16] Links to each of these grants are in this episode's show notes. Visit SpencerEd.org for more information. [34:24] Let's Conclude Our Interview with One of the Two Honorees of the Spencer Educational Foundation's Funding Their Future Gala 2026, Marya Propis! [34:48] Justin asks about associations Marya is plugged into that support empowering women in the risk and insurance industry, such as APIW and WISE. [35:01] Marya represents RT Specialty on two boards. One is CIAB (The Council of Insurance Agents and Brokers), an international organization known for its regulatory and lobbying efforts. [35:25] Marya spent a week in London last month with CIAB. There is so much going on in the London marketplace. That has been a lot of fun and a place to continue to learn. [34:47] The second board is WSIA (Wholesale & Specialty Insurance Association), representing the wholesale specialty segment. There are specialty markets around the world, but the E&S lines market segment only exists in the United States. WSIA is a wonderful organization. [36:14] Marya says that what's great about both CIAB and WSIA is what they do to support young and developing insurance and risk management professionals. It's consistent with and complementary to the work, scope, and mission of the Spencer Educational Foundation. [36:32] Marya loves the way all of that comes together. Marya has been in the space developing, recruiting, and supporting emerging leaders and talent in the insurance and risk management marketplace for a long time. It's a space she loves to be in. [35:56] It all comes together nicely with Marya's board service and her commitments to foundations and causes. [37:10] Justin says the Spencer Funding Their Future Gala will be on Thursday, September 17th, at the world-famous Waldorf Astoria. Marya is one of the two honorees this year. Justin asks what this honor means to Marya. [37:35] Marya can't remember a time when she looked forward to something so much. First, she was surprised, and she feels really humbled. Marya had been a Spencer Board member and Chair of the Board, thinking about whom they would honor, every year for a decade. [38:05] It's really humbling to be considered, let alone this year, going back to the Waldorf Astoria. Marya remembers the Spencer Gala there, at which she spoke as Chair of the Fundraising Committee. [38:22] Marya just about passed out before going on stage, as she had never talked before so many people. She was hyperventilating. She didn't fall off the stage. She enjoyed herself a little bit. The Waldorf Astoria is one of the most storied hotels in the history of New York City. [39:06] Marya says Sierra Signorelli is the other honoree for the Gala. Sierra and Marya worked together early in their careers at AIG. They got a significant start to their careers then. They've known each other for a long time. Marya praises Sierra and is so happy to be doing this with her. [39:32] Justin notes that Sierra is the Zurich U.S. CEO and the Zurich Commercial Insurance CEO. Those are not easy titles to achieve. Zurich is a global insurance carrier. Marya admires Sierra's career trajectory and the leadership influence she has had on so many. [39:51] This is the first time there have been two female honorees in the history of the Spencer Gala. Marya says sharing that honor with Sierra, someone she knows, trusts, and respects so highly, makes it even more special and a night to look forward to. She can't wait! [40:17] Marya is now a Director of Distinction on the Spencer Board. Her RT Specialty colleague, Michael VanAcker, is on the Spencer Board today. Marya mentions that Pat Ryan was honored by Spencer at one of the first Galas. Tim Turner, RT Specialty CEO, introduced Pat that year. [40:53] RT Specialty has had a seat on the Spencer Board for years. Marya is a Director of Distinction as she is a former Board Chair. They ask her to be an advocate where Megan Miller needs her, and to be conversant on where Spencer continues to support and drive results. [41:18] Marya stays in touch and makes sure she knows what is going on with the programs and schools they are partnering with. Her role is to be informed, be an ambassador, and jump in at any place that Megan and the Spencer team would need her to influence, help, and support. [41:41] Marya spoke at the E&S Insurer conference. At the end of the conference, she brought Megan Miller in and introduced her to the writers' folks and asked if they could get a five-minute spotlight on Spencer next year. That is an example of where Marya can try to help. [42:15] Marya says Spencer scholars are so excited about their insurance career. There is nothing more infectious than their enthusiasm for the career path they have chosen. To talk to a young person who has their whole life in front of them is super energizing for Marya. [42:57] Marya says that when a young person wants to talk to her and spend time with her, she thinks it is great. Enthusiasm is infectious. [43:05] At the end of the day, Marya wants to leave the insurance industry in a much better place than it was when she came into the business. Spending time with young people who will be the leaders of our industry in the future, there's no better feeling. [43:30] Marya says that anything she can do to have influence, set an example, or help them think through something helps her to continue to feel wildly enthusiastic about her career. She loves when she gets to spend time with the young brokers and underwriters at RT Specialty. [43:52] Justin says that the scholarship recipients he has seen on stage at the Gala have been so impressive. They're in school, and they're so involved. They're a shining example of what we want the future of this profession to be. [44:10] Marya says that there was no way, when she was 22 years old, that she could have gotten up in front of a room of 800 people in her profession and spoken like that. She would never have been able to do that. Their ability to get up in front of that audience and talk is huge! [44:37] Marya is impressed by what they talk about, in terms of their careers, and what they've learned. [44:42] Marya is delighted that Spencer has basically kept the Gala format consistent. The focus is on the students and the benefits that Spencer funding drives for the industry. [44:56] It's a place where you can see real impact on real lives because of the fundraising dollars that the risk management and insurance industry has stepped up and invested. That's the focus. Then they have dinner. There are two honorees, and they wrap it up. [45:12] Marya loves that they have never complicated the program for Gala. It has kept the focus in the right place, which is what they are doing to fund the future leaders of the insurance and risk management industry. She's excited to meet the Spencer scholars who will speak at the Gala. [45:35] Marya says that lots of times the speakers bring their families. She says her Mom and Dad will be there. That will round out what's going to be a terrific and exciting evening. [45:47] Jason says, We look forward to seeing you there on September 17th at the Waldorf Astoria in New York City. Marya will be there with her old friend Sierra Signorelli. It's going to be a fantastic, tremendous time! The link to the Funding Their Future Gala is in this episode's notes. [46:08] Marya, we're very happy for you. Congratulations again! I can't wait to see you again in September. Marya looks forward to seeing Justin again and the team from RIMS, another long-standing, awesome, successful partnership between Spencer and RIMS. [46:27] Special thanks again to Marya Propis for rejoining us here on RIMScast! We congratulate her again in advance of her receiving the honor at the Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala, which will be held on September 17th at the Waldorf Astoria in NYC. [46:47] Visit SpencerEd.org for more information and to purchase your ticket and for sponsorship opportunities. Join us next week, as we will be joined by Spencer Board Chair Johnell Holley. We will learn all about his career journey and risk philosophies. [47:03] Plug Time! You can sponsor a RIMScast episode for this, our weekly show, or a dedicated episode. Links to sponsored episodes are in the show notes. [47:32] RIMScast has a global audience of risk and insurance professionals, legal professionals, students, business leaders, C-Suite executives, and more. Let's collaborate and help you reach them! Contact pd@rims.org for more information. [47:50] Become a RIMS member and get access to the tools, thought leadership, and network you need to succeed. Visit RIMS.org/membership or email membershipdept@RIMS.org for more information. [48:08] Risk Knowledge is the RIMS searchable content library that provides relevant information for today's risk professionals. Materials include RIMS executive reports, survey findings, contributed articles, industry research, benchmarking data, and more. [48:24] For the best reporting on the profession of risk management, read Risk Management Magazine at RMMagazine.com. It is written and published by the best minds in risk management. [48:37] Justin Smulison is the Business Content Manager at RIMS. Please remember to subscribe to RIMScast on your favorite podcasting app. You can email us at Content@RIMS.org. [48:49] Practice good risk management, stay safe, and thank you again for your continued support!   Links: Spencer Educational Foundation's 2026 Funding Their Future Gala | Sept. 17, 2026 RIMS ERM Conference 2026 | November 19‒20 in Columbus, Ohio | Session Submission Deadline: Friday, June 19 RIMS Canada Conference — Oct. 18‒21, 2026 | Quebec City | www.rimscanadaconference.ca | Advance Registration Open | Sponsorship Opportunities Available RIMScast on YouTube! 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In just twelve months, the conversation around Agentic AI in insurance has changed dramatically.  What began as curiosity about autonomous AI agents has evolved into a much more practical discussion about implementation, governance, economics and competitive advantage.  In this special solo episode, InsTech's Zoja Wojcik reflects on the developments that have shaped the market since InsTech's first Agentic AI event in November 2025. Drawing on conversations with insurers, brokers, MGAs, technology providers and industry leaders, she explores how the industry has moved beyond experimentation and towards a more challenging question: where does the commercial value actually come from?  Along the way, you'll hear insights from Simon Torrance, Erdal Atakan, Gina Gill, Elena Maran, Max Richter and Ian Thompson, alongside examples of how organisations including CFC, McGill & Partners, AIG, Duck Creek and hyperexponential are bringing Agentic AI into real insurance operations.  Whether you're still trying to understand what Agentic AI means for insurance or already evaluating deployment opportunities, this episode offers a practical snapshot of where the market stands today and the questions leaders should be asking next.  Want to continue the conversation? Join us in London on July 7 for 'The age of Agentic AI: from strategy to commercial value'. In this episode:  00:00 - What is Agentic AI and why has it become one of insurance's most discussed technologies?  03:15 - Looking back at the industry's first major Agentic AI event in November 2025  05:45 - Simon Torrance on why Agentic AI should be viewed as a new workforce, not simply another software tool  06:20 - Early deployment examples from across the insurance market:  CFC's Lane Assist   McGill & Partners and Salesforce Agentforce   AIG's AI-driven underwriting initiatives   Federato's agentic underwriting platform   hyperexponential and Banyan Risk   Duck Creek's insurance-native Agentic AI platform   08:15 - Why moving from pilot projects to production remains difficult  10:00 - The defining question of 2026: proving commercial value and ROI  12:15 - Intelligence Capital, competitive advantage and why buying AI tools may only create parity  13:30 - Orchestration, governance and maintaining trust in agentic systems  15:00 - Workforce transformation and practical lessons for insurance leaders  16:00 - What questions should insurance organisations be asking next?  Key takeaways:  The industry conversation has shifted from experimentation towards implementation and measurable business outcomes.   Many of the biggest barriers to adoption are organisational rather than technical.   Boards increasingly expect clear economic justification for AI investment.   Competitive advantage may come less from AI models themselves and more from institutional knowledge and decision-making expertise.   Governance frameworks must evolve alongside increasingly autonomous systems.   Organisations that focus on specific business problems are more likely to succeed than those pursuing AI for its own sake.   Featured contributors:  Simon Torrance, AI Risk   Erdal Atakan, Inigo   Gina Gill, Apollo   Elena Maran, Alethesis AI   Max Richter, Mea platform   Ian Thompson, IMT Advisory  Further reading:  For listeners looking to explore the themes discussed in this episode:  Agentic AI & insurance  Podcast episode: Where is the industry today? – a view from the C-suite (A rare C-suite perspective on Agentic AI: what it is, how it's being deployed and why senior leaders are walking a tightrope between bold innovation and operational risk.)  CFC launches Lane Assist, a live agentic underwriting pilot  McGill & Partners becomes first London Market broker to deploy Agentic AI  McGill + AIG collaboration using AI-driven underwriting  Duck Creek launches insurance-native Agentic AI Platform  Federato RiskOps and Agentic underwriting platform  MGA Banyan Risk deploys hx's full agentic underwriting suite  Strategy & commercial value  Simon Torrance's work on Intelligence Capital   AI Risk research on Agentic AI and enterprise transformation   InsTech & ServiceNow New York event: The future of insurance will be orchestrated, not built  Governance & Responsible AI  Article: The New Frontier: Managing and insuring generative and agentic AI risks with Edinburgh Futures Institute  Podcast episode: Creating a new kind of assurance & insurance framework for AI-related risks (This episode unpacks one of the most ambitious research initiatives currently shaping the future of AI risk in insurance.) 

Aotearoa lacks a coherant complete approach to reducing the risk of natural hazards, according to a new report commissioned by on the country's largest insurers. AIG estimates that over the past 15 years the direct cost of natural hazards has been $4.2 billion a year. With 95 percent of that going directly to response and recovery, and just 5 percent to reducing future risk. Tasman mayor Tim King spoke to Lisa Owen.

CannCon and Ashe in America close out Chapter 3 of G. Edward Griffin's The Creature from Jekyll Island and the hits keep coming. Continental Illinois triggers the world's first electronic bank run, and the FDIC quietly covers 96% of uninsured deposits while small banks down the street get shut down the same week. The chapter then jumps to 2008: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, TARP, the auto bailouts, and the Merrill Lynch forced merger. Henry Paulson engineers the demolition of his Goldman Sachs rivals while protecting his alma mater. Banks announce they "repaid" loans using other government money, and the whole thing gets called a success. By the end, the government quietly owns 56% of GMAC and 80% of AIG, but nobody calls it nationalization. CannCon and Ashe also compare the third and fifth editions of the book, finding key sections merged and updated. Griffin's second reason to abolish the Fed lands hard: it is not a protector of the public. It is a cartel operating against it.

Thomas Galbraith is the CEO and co-founder of Barkr, an AI-driven valuation platform for asset-backed lending. He spent his early career in high net worth insurance at AIG and AXA, where he grew comfortable with the challenge of pricing hard-to-value assets. That thread ran through every role he held until it crystallized into a company built around a simple but structural problem: in asset-backed lending, appraisers give you a price and then spend the rest of their report telling you they're not responsible for it. Barkr is built to change that.What We CoveredThomas's background in high net worth insurance at AIG and AXAHow a common thread across luxury assets led to founding BarkrStarting with fine art and private jets before expanding to other asset classesThe two-part failure in traditional appraisals: accuracy and absence of liabilityHow Barkr pairs an AI valuation with a contractual performance warrantyThe progression from Lloyd's of London to AXA to Munich Re$2 billion in covered valuations and what patience actually means in this businessGPUs as a surprisingly durable and long-lived collateral asset classHow Barkr finds clients, from pavement pounding to Nvidia referralsMonthly mark-to-market on hard assets throughout a loan's lifeBuilding a domain-specific LLM with human review in the loopPlans to build an in-house insurance vehicle to unlock capacityKey TakeawaysTraditional appraisal firms hedge their liability by design. Page one is the price; the rest of the report is the disclaimer. Barkr's contractual warranty flips that model by standing behind the number.Barkr's data on GPU durability challenges the conventional narrative. Chips five and seven years old are still generating revenue and still have meaningful resale value, which changes the risk calculus for lenders considering AI infrastructure as collateral.Augmenting, not replacing, is the right positioning for valuation technology. Barkr actively encourages clients to keep using their existing appraisers and treats third-party appraisals as additional data inputs that improve their own accuracy.Building a reinsurance relationship takes years. Barkr worked through Lloyd's, then AXA, before landing Munich Re, and each step required demonstrating proof of concept at the prior level first.About Thomas GalbraithThomas Galbraith is the CEO and co-founder of Barkr. He began his career in high net worth insurance at AIG and AXA before founding Barkr to bring accountability and AI-driven accuracy to asset valuation in the lending market. Barkr has covered approximately $2 billion in valuations across art, private jets, vehicles, and GPUs.Connect with Fintech One-on-One:Tweet me @PeterRentonConnect with me on LinkedInFind previous Fintech One-on-One episodes

Nuacht Mhall. Príomhscéalta na seachtaine, léite go mall.*Inniu an naoú lá de mhí na Bealtaine. Is mise Niall Ó Siadhail.Tá triúr marbh agus roinnt eile an-tinn i ndiaidh ráig den hantaivíreas ar long Ísiltíreach san Aigéan Atlantach. D'imigh an long ó dheisceart na hAirgintíne ar an chéad lá de mhí Aibreáin agus beagnach céad go leith duine ar bord, and d'fhág bean amháin in éineacht le corp a fir chéile an long i San Héilin. Fuair sí féin bás fosta. Fuair paisinéir eile bás seachtain ó shin, agus bhí amhras ann an mbeadh cead ag an long teacht isteach sna hOileáin Chanáracha, mar gheall ar an víreas. De ghnáth, baineann an hantaivíreas le creimirí amhail luchóga agus francaigh, ach tagann sé ar dhaoine ó am go ham. Dúirt an Eagraíocht Dhomhanda Sláinte Déardaoin nach bhfuil siad ag súil le heipidéim mar gheall ar an ráig.Tá maoiniú do Thionscadal Logainmneacha Thuaisceart Éireann sábháilte i ndiaidh fógra an tseachtain seo go mbeadh deireadh ag teacht le tacaíocht an rialtais don tionscadal, atá ar an fhód le beagnach daichead bliain. Bunaíodh é in Ollscoil na Banríona, Béal Feirste, in 1987,  le taighde a dhéanamh ar bhunús agus brí logainmneacha ar fud na Sé Chontae, ach d'fhógair an tAire Pobal Gordon Lyons, atá ina bhall den Pháirtí Daonlathach Aontachtach, nach mbeadh an maoiniú ar fáil a thuilleadh. Meastar gur £90,000 sa bhliain atá i gceist. Tháinig cor eile sa scéal, áfach, nuair a d'fhógair an tAire Geilleagair Caoimhe Archibald go gcuirfeadh a Roinn féin an maoiniú ar fáil. Shéan an tAire Lyons go raibh dearcadh frith-Éireannach aige.Bhain an craoltóir cáiliúil David Attenborough céad bliain amach inné. Rugadh é sa bhliain 1926 agus bhí suim aige sa dúlra ó bhí sé ina bhuachaill óg. Thosaigh sé ag obair leis an BBC ag tús na gcaogaidí agus bhí sé ina rialtóir ar an chainéal nua BBC2 sna seascaidí. Chruthaigh sé an clár faisnéise Life on Earth in 1979, agus ba sa tsraith seo go raibh cruinniú cáiliúil aige le grúpa goraillí i Ruanda. Chuaigh sé i bhfeidhm go mór ar an lucht féachana nuair a labhair sé leis an cheamara faoi éirim agus tuiscint na ngoraillí, agus ón am sin, bhí na milliún daoine timpeall an domhain tógtha lena chuid clár faisnéise agus go háirithe lena ghuth séimh. Tá go leor de na cláir sin le feiceáil ar shuíomh an BBC faoi láthair, agus tá neart imeachtaí eile ar siúl lena bhreithlá a cheiliúradh.*Léirithe ag Conradh na Gaeilge i Londain. Tá an script ar fáil i d'aip phodchraolta.*GLUAISráig - outbreakcreimirí - rodentsan Eagraíocht Dhomhanda Sláinte - the World Health Organisationmaoiniú - fundinglogainmneacha - placenamesfrith-Éireannach - anti-Irishcraoltóir - broadcasterrialtóir - controller

What does it take to run a company where the business is risk itself?In conversation with Joubin Mirzadegan, Peter Zaffino shares what the role demands at AIG, including high stakes decisions, constant responsibility, and sacrifice. This episode looks at his journey as CEO ahead of his transition to Executive Chairman this June.Leading at a global scale across 200+ countries.Guest: Peter ZaffinoConnect with Peter ZaffinoLinkedInConnect with Joubin:XLinkedInEmail: grit@kleinerperkins.comFollow on LinkedInFollow on X​Learn more about Kleiner Perkins

Regal Renord [sic] Corporation Names Aamir Paul As New CEOIN: Louis Pinkham (24%) will also resign from the Board of Directors effective on his last day as CEO. ININ: Because of Chair Rakesh Sachdev (15%) OUTA powerful counterpoint to a new CEO's powerAxalta Coating Systems (27%)Herc Holdings (14%)Edgewell Personal Care (13%)OUT: “On October 29, 2025, the Company announced that Mr. Pinkham, our CEO, will separate from his role with the Company in connection with a CEO search process being led by the Company's Board. Mr. Pinkham's separation from his role as CEO is expected to occur by June 30, 2026.” OUTWhat took them so long?And what's wrong with their bench? ($8.775M golden hello)Brooke Lang: President, Power Efficiency Solutions (2022-)VP & GM of the Power Components DivisionEaton (2008-2016)Jerry Morton: President, Industrial Powertrain Solutions (2015-)served as President – Integration, Motion Control Solutions from 2021-2023, President of the Power Transmission Solutions from 2019-2021, Vice President, Business Leader of Power Transmission Solutions from 2017-2019, and led the global operations for Regal Rexnord's power transmission business from 2015-2017. Kevin Long: President, Automation and Motion Control (2025-)10 years at Dover Corporation, most recently as Group President of OPW, a global business serving the fluid handling, clean energy, cryogenics, and car wash markets.IN: Aamir spent years at Schneider Electric: essentially a AAA MSCI companyENVIRONMENT: Opportunities in Clean Tech 4.7 industry average/6.4 score (Regal is completely opposite here 4.7/3.0) INOUT: The Board is too entrenched: get rid of Rakesh Sachdev (15%, 18 years) Curtis Stoelting (21 years, 9%), Stephen Burt (15 years) and maybe this could work. OUTUFC CEO Dana White Says WHCD Shooting Was 'Awesome' and He 'Took In Every Minute' of the Incident IN: Dana White is Dana White. Works perfectly for TKO Holdings and Meta Platforms ININ: Because of Ari Emanuel (CEO/founder/Chair of TKO) and Zuck OUT (CEO/founder/Chair of Meta). Ari is the most powerful agent in Hollywood. Zuck is the king of social media addiction. They handle the “adult” business while Dana handles the “middle school” businessTKO Group Holdings: Ari Emanuel 67%Meta Platforms: Zuck 68%; Dana White 0%OUT: Dana White is Dana White. How are major sponsors like Disney going to feel about calling a shooting “awesome.”IN: Look at the Board: these are serious douches and they love this kind of behavior OUTAri Emanuel: known as being the a-hole of Hollywood.Silver Lake's Egon Durban: VC bro, Elon bud, Dell buddy, say no moreTKO COO Mark Shapiro: Hollywood man has served wherever there are bratty boys in charge: TKO, Endeavor (re: Elon, Ar, Egon), Dick Clark Productions, Papa John's, Six Flags, etc.TKO LD Steve Koonin is the CEO of the Atlanta Hawks and used to serve on the WWE and GameStop boards“The Rock”Former WWE CEO Nick KhanNepobaby Jonathan Kraft, NFLOUT: Look at the Board: these are serious douches and they love this kind of behavior. This is male toxic leadership that will eventually screw it all up. Ari Emanuel: known as being the a-hole of Hollywood.Silver Lake's Egon Durban: VC bro, Elon bud, Dell buddy, say no moreTKO COO Mark Shapiro: Hollywood man has served wherever there are bratty boys in charge: TKO, Endeavor (re: Elon, Ar, Egon), Dick Clark Productions, Papa John's, Six Flags, etc.TKO LD Steve Koonin is the CEO of the Atlanta Hawks and used to serve on the WWE and GameStop boards“The Rock”Former WWE CEO Nick KhanNepobaby Jonathan Kraft, NFL AIG names Andersen CEO as Zaffino moves to exec chairIN: You're getting a two-headed monster. Eric Andersen (ex-Aon President) handles the daily operations, while Peter Zaffino stays as Exec Chair to handle the high-level strategy OUTIN: Andersen spent years at Aon. OUTClimate Change Vulnerability 6.2/8.2 Human Capital Development 4.2/4.9 Privacy & Data Security 3.8/5.0OUT: AIG is already strong in the same places: OUTClimate Change Vulnerability 6.2/7.1 Human Capital Development 4.2/6.0Privacy & Data Security 3.8/4.9OUT: Peter Zaffino is a massive personality (32%). He's going to backseat-drive every decision Andersen makes, leading to a paralyzed C-suite. OUTLD John Rice 14%, Diana Murphy 11% (4 boards), Linda Mills 11%No tenure above 10 yearsOUT: Crappy succession planning. Why ignore the bench? Anderson's golden hello has not been disclosed yet but you know it's going to be bad. What about? INCharlie Fry: EVP, Reinsurance and Risk Capital OptimizationJon Hancock: EVP & CEO, General Insuranceleads AIG's three business segments: North America Commercial Insurance, International Commercial Insurance and Global Personal Insurance, and AIG's Claims organization and Chief Underwriting Office.Previously, led AIG's International Commercial Insurance and Global Personal Insurance businesses; former CEO of International General Insurance from June 2020 to December 2023; Director of Performance Management at Lloyd's of London from 2016 to 2020 with responsibilities including oversight of performance and risk management globally across the Lloyd's market.Pearson CEO Omar Abbosh is up for Autodesk board seat as director exitsIN: Omar Abbosh led Microsoft's Industry Solutions. Autodesk is desperate to become an AI software company: Omar is the guy who actually knows how to sell AI to enterprises. INOmar is “Hall of Famer”Autodesk already has 2 hall-of-famers: Ram Krishnan, Rami RahimStephen Milligan (who Omar is replacing) = ROTATIONOUT: Have a director named Jeffrey Epstein OUTIN: Chair Stacy Smith (12%; former CFO Intel) is cleaning up: replacing a hardware guy (Milligan) with a software/AI guy (Omar) OUTOUT: Despite what you might think, don't invest because they have a female board chair: Stacy is a dude. OUTIN: Omar is CEO at Pearson, dealing with the ethics of AI in education: Autodesk is rapidly integrating AI into urban planning and architecture to foster more sustainable, equitable, and efficient cities. All boards need AI dudes like Omar OUTOUT: Omar is the CEO of Pearson. Pearson is in the middle of its own massive AI transition. He doesn't have the bandwidth to be an effective director at Autodesk. He's just a big name OUTOUT: Losing Stephen Milligan (ex-Western Digital CEO) could be trouble: will Autodesk overdo its AI hand? Spend too much, fire too many people? OUTTrump's idea to ‘just buy' bankrupt Spirit Airlines draws GOP backlashIN: CEO Dave Davis (45%) rescued Sun Country. OUTTransportation 12%Law and Government 2%Economics & Accounting 3%Sales & Marketing 0.4%IN: Director (and ALL STAR) Robert Milton (6%). Former CEO/Chair of Air Canada; led the restructuring there; isn't at Spirit to watch it liquidate INOUT: CFO Fred Cromer is presiding over Spirit's second bankruptcy restructuring in under two years OUTOUT: John Bendoraitis has been the COO since 2017. He's been the architect of the operation during Spirit's entire decline—the engine issues, the labor disputes, and the service meltdowns OUTOUT: Trump thinks it's a good idea INSnap (SNAP) Appoints Doug Hott as New CFO.IN: Doug Hott is coming from Amazon. He understands addicted customers.INOUT: former CFO Derek Anderson also came from Amazon. OUTIN: Evan Spiegel (40%) and Robert Murphy (36%), despite owning all the decisionmaking, finally have someone willing to do the dirty work and make decisions (Mr. “16% layoff” Hott is a real man.) INOUT: Former CFO Derek Andersen is bailing right as the company announces layoffs and faces activist pressure from Irenic Capital. Maybe that's a sign? OUTOUT: Evan Spiegel (40%) and Robert Murphy (36%) needed Irenic Capital to realize they needed to fire CFO Derek Andersen OUTOUT: New CFO Doug Hott started by firing 16% of the workforce? He will be hated forever. Plus, why invest in another heartless finance bro treating human beings like line items to be deleted? OUT: Chair Michael Lynton (8%), the only adult with power on the board, was CEO/Chair of Sony Pictures (2004-2017), when the studio faced what is widely considered the most devastating corporate scandal in Hollywood history: the 2014 Sony Pictures Hack. Run. IN

In this powerful episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony and Jesse return to their parable series with an in-depth examination of the Laborers in the Vineyard from Matthew 20:1-16. This often-misunderstood parable confronts our natural inclination toward merit-based thinking and exposes the scandal of God's grace. The hosts unpack the covenantal language embedded in the text, particularly the workers' "grumbling"—a loaded term echoing Israel's wilderness rebellion. Through careful exegesis and theological reflection, they demonstrate how this parable dismantles religious entitlement while celebrating God's sovereign freedom to bestow mercy according to His purposes, not our calculations. The discussion offers fresh insights into grace, election, and the radical generosity that defines God's kingdom economy. Key Takeaways The parable operates on covenant logic, not economic fairness: The landowner's dealings with his workers reflect covenantal promise-keeping rather than marketplace transactions, establishing that God's relationship with His people is fundamentally gracious. "Grumbling" carries profound theological weight: The Greek word used for the workers' complaint is the same term in the Septuagint for Israel's wilderness rebellion—not mere dissatisfaction, but a covenantal accusation against God's faithfulness. Two types of workers represent two approaches to God: The first-hired workers who contracted for specific wages represent those relating to God through legal obligation and merit, while later workers who trusted the owner's promise represent faith-based relationship. The reversal of payment order is narratively essential: By paying the last workers first, the landowner deliberately exposes the merit-based assumptions of the first workers, forcing them to confront their entitlement. Grace doesn't negate justice—it transcends it: The landowner fulfills every contractual obligation while simultaneously exercising sovereign generosity beyond what is owed, demonstrating that mercy and justice coexist in God's character. The parable addresses the present kingdom, not just heaven: Because it includes grumbling and complaint, this parable describes life in God's kingdom now—the "already but not yet"—rather than the consummated state. Divine sovereignty in salvation is the theological climax: The landowner's declaration "Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me?" directly addresses God's freedom in election and the scandal of unmerited grace. Key Ideas The Covenantal Nature of the Landowner's Dealings The parable's opening establishes a formal agreement between the landowner and the first workers: one denarius for a day's labor. This contractual arrangement is crucial for understanding what follows. Unlike marketplace haggling, this represents a covenant—the landowner binds himself to provide what he has promised. Tony emphasizes that even this initial contract is an act of condescension and grace, as the master had no obligation to employ anyone at all. As the day progresses, subsequent workers are hired with increasingly less formal agreements. By the third hour, the landowner promises only "whatever is right," and by the eleventh hour, no wage is even mentioned. These later workers enter the vineyard based entirely on the landowner's character and trustworthiness. This progression mirrors the movement from law to gospel—from contractual obligation to trusting promise. The theological implication is profound: those who relate to God based on His gracious word rather than calculated merit are actually in a more secure position than those who attempt to earn their standing through works. The Wilderness Echo: Grumbling as Covenant Violation The hosts make a critical exegetical observation about the Greek word for "grumbling" (γογγύζω) used in verse 11. This is not casual complaining but the identical term used throughout the Septuagint to describe Israel's covenant rebellion in the wilderness. When the workers grumble "upon receiving" their wages, they're not merely expressing disappointment about pay inequality—they're filing a covenant lawsuit against the master, accusing him of unfaithfulness. This connection to Numbers 16 and Exodus 16-17 is devastating. The Israelites' wilderness grumbling wasn't about logistics or comfort; it was fundamentally about doubting God's covenant fidelity. By employing this loaded terminology, Matthew signals that the first workers' complaint is nothing less than accusing God of covenant violation. The landowner's response ("Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?") is a covenant defense—he has fulfilled his obligations precisely. The workers' real offense is not miscalculation but begrudging God's freedom to show mercy beyond what is contractually required. The "Evil Eye" and Begrudging God's Grace The final rhetorical question—"Or do you begrudge my generosity?"—contains another Jewish idiom often lost in translation. The Greek literally reads, "Is your eye evil because I am good?" This "evil eye" imagery appears throughout Scripture as a metaphor for envy, stinginess, and resentment toward another's blessing. The landowner's question cuts to the heart: are you cursing me for being generous? This directly parallels Jonah's response to Nineveh's salvation. Jonah had just experienced miraculous deliverance through the great fish, yet when God showed identical mercy to the Ninevites, Jonah's response was essentially, "I knew you were gracious—that's why I ran!" The parable exposes the same perverse logic: those who have received covenant mercy begrudging that same mercy extended to others. For the Pharisees listening to Jesus, this was an indictment of their resentment toward tax collectors and sinners receiving the kingdom. For Christians today, it challenges any sense of spiritual superiority based on how long we've been in the kingdom or how much we've sacrificed. Memorable Quotes Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity? That 'or' is a logical connector—either I'm not allowed to do what I want with my belongings, which is ridiculous, or if I am allowed, then you must be mad at me for being generous. Those are the only options. — Tony Arsenal The grumbling in the Old Testament in this context is a covenantal accusation. These workers aren't just complaining about not getting what they thought they would—they're questioning the veracity of the covenant that was made. — Tony Arsenal Most of us are this eleventh-hour call. It's much better to be in the place of that younger brother who comes in and repents than to be the older brother who is stubborn and finds some reason to come before God with self-righteous grievances. — Jesse Schwamb Full Episode Transcript [00:01:05] Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 488 of the Reformer Brotherhood. I'm Jesse  [00:01:13] Tony Arsenal: and I am still Tony, and this is the podcast where Tony comes back. Hey brother.  [00:01:19] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. The band is back together again, man. It's reunited and boy, do you feel it? It feels good, doesn't  [00:01:26] Tony Arsenal: it? I do, I do. I'm excited to come back. It was nice to take a break. [00:01:29] Jesse Schwamb: Good.  [00:01:29] Tony Arsenal: I, uh, I've been, you know, texted with you a couple times. Just it was, I did my best to sort of not think about the podcast because that's sort of defeats the purpose of taking a break from something if you spend a lot of time thinking about it. Um, so I'm back. I'm refreshed. I'm ready to go.  [00:01:44] Break and Work Chaos [00:01:44] Tony Arsenal: I appreciate the listeners' patience. Uh, it's been sort of a weird, crazy busy time at work. Uh, there's a lot going on. I, I lost like. 60% of my staff in the course of like three weeks. And, um, I'm still kind of in the thick of it, but we're coming out of it. So took a little bit of time to just make sure that I was having a, an appropriate space to de-stress from that and take care of my family and attend to worship. And, um, it was really a, a blessing to have that. Uh, sort of sabbatical. Ironically, the sabbatical wars were going on at the same time on Twitter, and Jesse is blissfully unaware of that 'cause he's not involved in in the Twitter. That's true. Um, but yeah, just took a little break and it's kinda like overblown it, to call it a sabbatical. Like this is a podcast, it's a hobby, but, but it was nice to have, uh, a little bit of extra time, you know, couple hours extra week, uh, uh, each week of extra time to just decompress and, uh, play with the kids and spend time with my wife and clean the house a little bit, which was good.  [00:02:36] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, it is always good to have a clean house. You look great. You seem refreshed. The voice sounds good, and I'm like, I don't know, in year seven or eight of my Twitter sabbatical, it's going great so far. I feel like I haven't missed a whole lot. The world still seems wild and I'm sure, or X, right? We gotta go X on this. It's  [00:02:53] Tony Arsenal: always Twitter. It's always gonna be Twitter. I don't care what Elon Musk  says.  [00:02:56] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, I'm listen. I'm totally fine with that.  [00:02:58] Back to Parables [00:02:58] Jesse Schwamb: And I teased this in the last episode, but we can't be stopped. I mean, people should know this by now, we have an inexorable march through the parables of Jesus's true. That will not be stopped. We're always gonna come back until there are no more. And on this episode, we're gonna be hanging out in Matthew 20, talking about laborers in the Kingdom of Heaven.  [00:03:17] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I'm stoked. I'm, I'm, I'm excited to get back into it. I'm excited to get back into the word together with everybody. I'm excited to clear whatever that was on in my throat out  [00:03:27] Jesse Schwamb: emotion,  [00:03:27] Tony Arsenal: live on the air. Uh, but yeah, it'll be good. I'm, I'm stoked. I mean, I love this stuff and it's good to be back.  [00:03:32] Jesse Schwamb: Listen, you had the rest. Now let's talk about labor. So speaking of labor, it's, it's time for you to work up here, Tony. Are you affirming with or denying against on this episode?  [00:03:42] Tony Arsenal: Uh, I'm affirming something and I'm hopeful, uh, that just a little behind the scenes activity here. Jesse recorded episode 487, like an hour and a half ago. I have not yet listened to it, so I don't know if you did an affirmation and I I did. If you did. I hope it's not the same one.  [00:03:58] Jesse Schwamb: I did not. You're  [00:03:59] Tony Arsenal: safe. Uh, good. So I'm safe.  [00:04:01] Artemis II Hype [00:04:01] Tony Arsenal: So, um, I'm affirming the Artemis two mission. Um, oh, nice. Have you been, I mean, I know you're not on Twitter, but I'm sure there's news elsewhere. Uh, this amazing mission around the moon, um, for astronaut, for astronauts, I think, um, the furthest man space travel, um, since the Apollo program. Um. Pretty intense, pretty amazing pictures, right? The camera technologies amazing. Increased exponentially, uh, since we were there last. Um, this is ostensibly in preparation for an actual moon landing, which who knows when that will be? Um, but as far as I've seen, the mission was a resounding success. There was no right. I think they had, they ran into a few little hiccups early on with some technical things, but nothing crazy. I have not heard. Um, I know they did touch down and they did reentry. Um, I've not heard anything one way or another, but I'm assuming since I have not heard terrible, tragic news that they made it through, did they do the reentry? I'm really, apparently I'm not actually paying as much attention to this as I thought I was. I saw a lot of information about reentry, but I guess, I don't know for sure when that happened or is happening.  [00:05:05] Jesse Schwamb: I mean, by this point, when people listen to it, it'll be old news anyway, right? So  [00:05:09] Tony Arsenal: For sure. Yeah. And either, either it went terribly wrong and I'm gonna feel awful, or it went fine and I'm gonna feel a little silly for. Throwing a caveat that it went terribly wrong out there. But, um, it's cool. It's, it's amazing. I mean, I, I commented to my wife the other day and she's kinda like, yeah, maybe we should like, spend that money on people who are on the planet. I was like, okay, I can, I can buy that wisdom. But, um, there's something very cool and very Genesis, uh, one, ask Genesis one and two, ask about flying out into space and taking dominion over Yeah, for sure. Over a, a little ball of rock, uh, you know, uh, 25,000 miles away or whatever it is. Um. And, you know, I'm like an engineering nerd. I, I don't know anything about engineering, but I love watching YouTube videos that explain stuff like this. And  [00:05:52] Jesse Schwamb: me  [00:05:52] Tony Arsenal: too, all of the videos that have cropped up now about free return and how, like they're able to basically like do minimal burn on the thrusters to get into the right trajectory and then just like meet the moon in the place it's gonna be. And then the, you know, the moon's gravity captures it and whips it back around and then shoots it back towards Earth. And for the most part, they're able to do all of that with relatively minor, um, relatively minor energy output because they're just utilizing physics and gravity and math, um, to fly to the moon and come back. Yes. It's pretty crazy amazing. So, yeah. Amazing. And the photos of like the, the sort of like new versions of the Earthrise photos are really, really phenomenal. Um, they're crisp, they're clean, they're obviously like the best, the best actual pho photographic images we've had of the lunar surface. Um. And the, the far side of the lunar surface, which we get all sorts of like telescopic photos and things of this side of the lunar surface because it's tightly locked and is facing us at all times. We don't get a ton of really great photography of the far side of the moon, which is a big part of what this mission was, so,  [00:06:56] Jesse Schwamb: right.  [00:06:56] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. If you haven't seen the photos, I mean, they're out there, they're amazing. There will be even more available once we get back. You know, they, they're transmitting only the most stellar, amazing ones. Um, and, but they're taking, I'm sure thousands and thousands of photos and, um, so yeah, it's pretty cool. I'm affirming the Artemis two mission. Um. It's just amazing what, what people can do with common grace, you know? That's right. In insight into nature. Um, I don't know anything about the astronauts. I don't know anything about their religious faith or their spiritual life or anything like that. But, um, the people who design this, the people who fly it, they're just tapping into the truth that's present in God's creation. So good on them. Uh, either I'm glad they got home, wish they have a safe home coming, or something along those lines, I guess. I don't know.  [00:07:40] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, you'll be happy to know that NASA is reporting that the four astronauts are an excellent condition after they landed in the Pacific Ocean. So  [00:07:47] Tony Arsenal: good.  [00:07:47] Jesse Schwamb: All, all appears to be well. And it says they have a giant SD card of pictures that's they've been taking. Yeah. And saving. I'm sure. They were just, they were just too big to send to over wifi.  [00:07:58] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Like massive wideness. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure they have a ton that they didn't send because you know Right. Data rates to the moon are pretty high. Yeah.  [00:08:05] Jesse Schwamb: Ex. Yeah.  [00:08:05] Tony Arsenal: This economy is crazy. So  [00:08:07] Jesse Schwamb: Exactly. In this economy. Really In this economy. Yeah, exactly.  [00:08:11] Cosmic Worship Reflections [00:08:11] Jesse Schwamb: I think you're right. This is good. I haven't talked about this at all. It's hard not to get just stoked, even in the amateur way about the science, the technology, the physics of all this stuff, and then even the astronauts just being overwhelmed by what they're seeing. [00:08:24] Tony Arsenal: Mm-hmm.  [00:08:25] Jesse Schwamb: It's hard not to get pulled into that and think about the universe that God has created and find that there is something transcendent just, uh, by observing all of these things. Yeah. Like even casually, which I think shows, again, this is literally the, the heavens and the earth crying out for God, showing his immeasurable power and, you know, immortal nature. It's incredible that we can even see and be a part of some of these things. Just wild.  [00:08:49] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah, and I think it's crazy that they can get signals to the moon. I mean, I drive home from Dartmouth College and I go through half of the spot there, and I don't have a cell signal, but we can get images from the moon. Um, so yeah, it's great. It's great. Check it out if you haven't seen it. If you haven't heard about it, I don't know what you're doing. Uh, this is probably the largest major scientific advancement in our generation. Um, in terms of like big scale scientific enterprise projects. There's been a lot of really amazing technology that's been developed. But this is like the first big. Almost like risky kind of scientific,  [00:09:30] Jesse Schwamb: right?  [00:09:30] Tony Arsenal: I dunno. Gambit or I dunno, gamble that we've done in a long time. Big deal. I mean, big a lot. Deal of things. Deal. Nothing went wrong. Nothing ma major went wrong. Praise God that they all got back to the planet safely. Right. But, um, a lot of things could have gone wrong, uh, and they didn't. So check out the photos, check out the scientific data they're gonna get. I mean, I'm sure they've got all sorts of information about the way the, the, the space ship moved, all of that stuff. It's gonna be really interesting to see kind of how this all comes about.  [00:09:56] Jesse Schwamb: Get some worship on, right? Yeah. I mean this is what a one, a thing to be reminded about how big and how glorious God is. [00:10:01] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:10:01] Jesse Schwamb: And, and to realize, like you said, the risks of this exploration. And this is God again, creating all of this outta nothing. Why? Yeah. Just absolutely wild. Incredible.  [00:10:12] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah, for  [00:10:12] Jesse Schwamb: sure. Blown away.  [00:10:13] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. What about you, Jesse? What do you have for us?  [00:10:15] Bayes and Predictability [00:10:15] Jesse Schwamb: I got affirmation. It's equally nerdy, and actually this is as is always the case. This is why one of many reasons I miss you is it, it dovetails so nicely, so I'm affirming with a book. It's called Everything Is Predictable, how Esy and Statistics Explains the World. It's by a guy named Tom Chivers. I know this sounds super nerdy, but hear me out on this because Thomas Bayes, if you don't know this guy is first kind of like a wild and interesting guy, but this whole theory he put forward is super interesting. And this book is not like a mathematics book. It's like reads almost like a statistical thriller, which as it came outta my mouth, realized it was not maybe more ingratiating. I could have chosen better words than statistical thriller. But Thomas Bayes was alive in the 17 hundreds. And what's interesting to me at least about him, is he was an English statistician, who was a Presbyterian minister actually. He was a non-conformist and his, this whole theorem that he developed was actually published after his death. And the non-conformist part is super interesting. It's all in this book, even some of his different theological ideas. But because he was non-conformist, it basically meant like he couldn't learn. He was kicked out of all the English universities. He had to go to Scotland. Even all of that shaped how he came up with this particular theorem. But the gist of it is. Rather than treating like probabilities, as we think about it as this fixed frequency, you know, how many times does this thing occur? He argued and realized that it should represent a degree of belief and then you would update that belief rationally as new evidence comes in. And I know that sounds super quaint, but this is like what machine learning is based on medical diagnosis. A lot of like space travel is based on this in terms of understanding uncertainty and systems spam, all of that stuff. Here's an example, I think Tony, because we are, we have to carry forward with the top 50 medical podcast thing, right? We've got going on here. Lemme just give everybody an example of why you need this and why you automatically think this way. So. Statistics is really important, especially in medical testing. This was really prevalent in during COVID. So there's two ways that you can describe how a medical test performs you. You know this already, Tony, you're an expert. So one would be like sensitivity. So like how AIG  [00:12:19] Tony Arsenal: not an expert.  [00:12:20] Jesse Schwamb: Oh, you're definitely an expert in testing. Here we go. So one would be like sensitivity. How good is the test at catching people who are sick? So if you're sick, you, you want the test to identify that, that you're sick. That's sensitivity. So a test with a 99% sensitivity is gonna correctly identify 99 out of a hundred people who are truly sick. It always gonna miss one person. It's a false negative. The other half of that coin is something called specificity. So if sensitivity is all about catching the people who are sick, specificity is gonna say, how good is the test at clearing people who are not sick? And so a test with 99% specificity, you might have correctly guessed, is gonna identify or clear 99 out of a hundred healthy people. Now if you have a test. Both of those 99% sensitive and 99% specific, you might be thinking, that is the dream. That's exactly what I want. That that test is gonna be so precise and accurate. How could my intuition fail me? But this is the thing. It actually fails all the time, and here's why. Let's say that. You go out and you screen a group of people, a general population for a rare disease that affects one in a thousand people. One in a thousand people, rare disease. So if you screen 10,000 people from the general population, that means that truly only 10 of them are going to have the actual disease. I'm not gonna do all the math 'cause it'll, oh, this is already making for amazing podcasting. But here's the bottom line. That test, which sounds so good on the face, is going to identify 109 people as truly sick or truly having disease. But the problem is that only 10 of them actually have it. That means that only there's, it only has a success rate of 9%. There's only 9% chance you actually have the disease, but it's falsely identified. The short end of this is Bayes corrects that problem. He fixes it with his theorem so that we get to the right number of people. That's what's called like a base fallacy rate. It's not taking into account that really only 10 people should have this particular disease or this sickness. So I know that's sounds super nerdy, but so much of our lives are based on this. We have a prior belief or a prior set of things that we understand about the world. And then as evidence comes in, we refine that. That sounds so normal and normative, but it's revolutionary in this book actually. Bayes versus what's called like frequentist or frequent, um, probability is like hotly debated. People actually throw down over this theorem. So it's a really fun read. Go check out. Everything is predictable. Al Bayesian statistics explains our world. It really is for everybody. And then you can impress your friends with all the statistical pross you're gonna have when you're done reading it.  [00:14:56] Tony Arsenal: Like the medical administrator hat that I can't always take off is like, why would we screen 10,000 people? Are, are they all symptomatic? Are none of them symptomatic? But suppose it doesn't really  [00:15:08] Jesse Schwamb: matter for the example. That's a great, so generally what happens here is, let's say it's like some kind of rare form of cancer, unless you use Bayesian statistics, what you'll find is you'll get these false positive rates. So these tests do use Bayesian statistics. It corrects, in other words, for this problem. So there might be a lot of people that are gonna screen for this because if you, you wanna know if you have it, but you don't wanna get it wrong and say that you do. So this ensures his approach ensures that you get it. Right. It's wild. Fascinating stuff.  [00:15:34] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, and I would think actually, you know, there's probably, there's other mechanisms as well where they would, where they would sort of screen out. People that shouldn't be tested or help identify false negatives, false positives. Um, but yeah, that's, that's interesting. I probably won't read that book, but it sounds like an interesting read. I just don't have a lot of room on my A TBR shelf.  [00:15:55] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, listen. That, that's fair.  [00:15:57] Goodreads DNF Update [00:15:57] Jesse Schwamb: By the way, here's like a, a side affirmation. I think you and I both share speaking like books and cataloging books. If you use Good Reads, good Reads. Right. Finally adding a list of the Do Not Did Not Finish book. That's fantastic. This, this might be an example for some people, so pick it up and even if you don't have a place for it, guess where you can put it on the did not finish list. Yeah. Good Reads.  [00:16:16] Tony Arsenal: That's finally, that's one of those like, like why didn't they add that 15 years ago? Kind of an updates and you get the email and they're like, we're so excited to introduce the did Not Finish thing. And we're like, yeah. Like of course. Like, duh. It's likes, like, we're proud to introduce that. Your keypad now has a zero on it.  [00:16:36] Jesse Schwamb: Right. So  [00:16:37] Tony Arsenal: yeah. I'm, I'm excited about the DNR, um, the DNF, um, I'm so excited. I can't even remember what it's called. Yeah. The shelf. But, uh, very, very useful. The DNR list  [00:16:47] Jesse Schwamb: is a diff it is a different list. Speaking of medical things, it's a different  [00:16:50] Tony Arsenal: list. Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely a different thing. Usually it's not a list. It's a list of one in most cases.  [00:16:56] Jesse Schwamb: Exactly,  [00:16:57] Tony Arsenal: yeah. You can't put other people on your  [00:17:00] Jesse Schwamb: DNR  [00:17:00] Tony Arsenal: This,  [00:17:00] Jesse Schwamb: I suppose. Yeah, I should clarify that. You can really, you can only really put yourself, or I suppose somebody for whom you have that kind of authority over on that list, but I was thinking that more from like a medical perspective, that somewhere there would be a database in which there might be a list of DNR. I don't know.  [00:17:15] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I'm not sure. Probably there was at some point, but I think with medical chart technology now, that's probably like a. A moot point. Yeah. They don't need to be able to like cross reference a master list anymore. They just look in the patient's electronic record. We're really like in the weeds here. You can tell it's been a while since I've, I've podcasted. I don't really remember how to do this.  [00:17:35] Jesse Schwamb: This is great.  [00:17:36] Segue to Matthew 20 [00:17:36] Jesse Schwamb: I think at this point we try to make some kind of awkward segue that is mildly successful. Again, probably has statistically like a 20 to 27% chance of being successful and really hitting the mark. Yeah. So do you have anything that's gonna move us into this?  [00:17:49] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I mean, I feel like you've been podcasting for the last several weeks without me and I've been working hard and now I'm kind of coming in as Johnny come lately and we're gonna get paid the same amount so. Even though you've worked harder for longer and I'm coming in late to the game here. [00:18:03] Jesse Schwamb: Oh man. Ple loved ones. Please tell me you got that. Please tell me you got all of that. That's, that's what you show up for here. Yeah, that was  [00:18:10] Tony Arsenal: a deep cut.  [00:18:11] Jesse Schwamb: That, that was beautiful. And I think leads us right into Matthew 20. So I think we've got at least 16 verses to get through here. Maybe again, if we're gonna keep a statistical theme here, something about engineering and math, all that stuff, we'll let everybody else pick the over under and whether or not we're gonna get through this and how many verses that's going to be. But at this point, we might as well begin.  [00:18:32] Tony Arsenal: Yes. Yeah.  [00:18:33] Read the Parable [00:18:33] Tony Arsenal: I'll start by reading. Uh, we're here in Matthew chapter 20, the first 16 versus this is the parable of the laborers in the vineyard and it reads. For the Kingdom of Heaven is like a master of a house who went out early in the morning to hire laborer laborers for his vineyard. After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into the vineyard and going out about the third hour, he saw others standing idle in the marketplace. He said to them, you go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right, I will give you. So they went, going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same. And about the 11th hour, he went out and found others standing. And he said to them, why do you stand here idle all day? They said to him, because no one has hired us. And he said to them, you go into the vineyard too. And when the evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, call the laborers and pay them with their wages, beginning with the last up to the first. And when those hired about the 11th hour came, each of them received a denarius. Now, when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more, but each of them also received a denarius. And on receiving it, they grumbled at the master of the house saying, these last worked only one hour and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat. And he replied to one of them, friend, I'm doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me? For a denarius, take what belongs to you and go, I choose to give the last worker as I give to you. Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you beg, do you begrudge my generosity? So the last will be first and the first will be last. Now I just wanna head this off. I did bite my tongue earlier and I probably am lisping and this is like a running gag. We thought that we'd resolved it. Uh, so if you hear me stumble over my words a little bit, it's just, it's just the struggle bus today.  [00:20:24] Jesse Schwamb: Listen, this is the, these are like the real things we have to deal with when the podcasting, like the real threats, the real injuries. I appreciate you like working through it. Like you just get back up and you walk it off with your tongue.  [00:20:35] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, my, my, uh, my podcasting hiatus was actually just a recovery of the last time I bit my tongue. I just needed a couple weeks to, no, I'm just kidding.  [00:20:43] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, we didn't wanna say.  [00:20:44] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:20:44] Kingdom Fairness and Grumbling [00:20:44] Tony Arsenal: So, Jesse, this is a, this is a parable that follows right on the heels, um, of kind of everything we've been talking about. And I think as we go through these parables and we look at them and we, we sort of pick them up and we look at the different facets of them, we sort of compare them to each other. We kind of, we kind of place them in their context really. They all have basically the same theme, right? Like they're all kind of circulating around these same topics. In this parable, it's circulating around this idea that, um, the, the owner of the vineyard, the master of the vineyard, is allowed to pay the people he employs whatever he wants. And as long as the payment that is due to an individual is received by that individual, then what other people receive and how they receive it and how hard they've worked and how hard they didn't work. That's really not germane to whether or not the, the laborer received a fair wage, uh, in the first place. Right. So we're, we're circling around themes of kind of fairness of, uh, of sort of resentment, I think for resentment at the master's generosity, which has been a big theme in previous ones. So this will be good for us to expand on. There's always little nuggets and kernels of things that are different from other parables, and then it's interesting to always see the ways that they kind of line up and, and tell us similar things.  [00:21:57] Jesse Schwamb: And this parable is unique to Matthew. Yeah. And it does function as this exposition or expansion of what Jesus says in chapter 19 where it says, but many who are first will be last. And the last first, which is repeated with this lovely like inverted emphasis in, at the end of this as you just read. So it belongs to this like interesting cluster of teacher teachings on discipleship and reward nature of the kingdom of God. And we've, we've spoken a lot about that. I think I was just reminded of this as you were, you were. Reading this, I feel like I remember this from some teaching, like this parable is kind of like a unique chiasm that's anchored on the landowner, sovereign generosity, which you brought up. And then there's the complaints of the first hired, which is mirrored by the late comers vulnerability. And then the landowners, two speeches which divide everything, kind of provide sandwich and the like, the theological climax. It does start in that really familiar way, which we've gotten accustomed to thinking about that introductory formula of the kingdom of heaven is like, and it signals of course that what follows is not gonna be a lesson in economics, but it's gonna use all this economic language as theological disclosure for how God's kingdom operates. And it starts again, like you said, with this master of the house, which to me seems. Pretty clearly like a, a God figure himself. Yeah. It's, that's kind of like a reoccurring mathian image. I think. So we've got this vineyard, which of course has all this symbolism, steeply rooted in Israel's covenant imagination and evokes God's people and his redemptive labor among them. So, man, now that I'm saying this all loud, is this thing like super pregnant with all kinds of like imagery and meaning?  [00:23:27] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it's, it's always good to remember, although parables have kind of some parables, most parables have sort of distinct discreet, symbolic elements where like, this represents that this represents that almost in an allegorical form. And, and in some cases, like purely in allegorical form, where it's like pilgrim's progress where each, each individual, each entity, each location each represents some sort of symbolic value. But we have to remember that when, when it says the parable of the kingdom of heaven is like the master of the house, it's not just like the master of the house. Yes. Right. It's like this whole scenario. Yes. It's, it's like. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like everything that follows, it's like the entire, um, the entire paree here. That's what the Kingdom of Heaven is like. And one of the things that I think is striking about this is the kingdom of heaven is like some people complaining, like the people complaining about, some people are getting the same wage for less work. Um, that is part of what the Kingdom of Heaven is like. So I think we sometimes think of, of. The kingdom of heaven in, um, in the parables, we think of it as though God is just saying, this is what heaven is like. Right? Jesus Just saying like, this is what heaven is like, but the kingdom of heaven, that language is broader than what we normally would say, uh, is. We're thinking of heaven, like in the, the spiritual abode where God lives and the angels live. Um, where, where the departed saints are waiting for the resurrection, the kingdom of heaven is, is also inclusive of the, the sort of like. Time now between the victory of Christ on the cross and the consummation of the kingdom and the last day, the kingdom of heaven is inclusive of that time period too. And so this parable sort of situates us. I think it situates us in that pre consummated state where we're talking about what it's like to be a part of the kingdom of heaven here and now in our fallen state, but still solidly in the kingdom of heaven. 'cause there's not gonna be any complaining or grumbling about God's justice in God's fairness once we're in the final resurrected state. Right? Sure. Nobody's gonna be looking back and be like, yeah, you were way too gracious for that guy. Nobody's gonna be playing the Jonah part when we're all resurrected and we're worshiping for, for all time going forward. So this parable, because there are elements of. Dissatisfaction or elements of grumbling or complaining similar to like the, the parable of the prodigal son. There's this sun figure, the, the older sun figure who like is just a bonehead and doesn't get it. Well, that can't be talking about the people who are in the resurrection kingdom in the final kingdom. It's gotta be talking about people who are still awaiting the resurrection of the body and who are still not yet. Uh, and even in, in that parable, the, the older son doesn't even seem to be a figure who's, who's regener. Maybe he does become regener at some point in the future, but he doesn't seem to be. In, even in God's kingdom, he doesn't seem to be, even among God's people, he's consistently placed outside of the field. You don't even know he exists until Nick halfway through the parable. This is similar in that there are these workers, they're receiving their wages and some of them are, are outwardly dissatisfied and grumbling against the master of the house. Um, so I think if we think about parables as describing heaven rather than the kingdom of heaven, we can lose sight of, of what's actually being said in a lot of them. [00:26:50] Contracts Versus Grace [00:26:50] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that's really good stuff because it strikes me that there are like, strangely, two groups here mentioned, I, I find this really kind of fascinating. We, I think we should talk about this, like the first group has like the most formal agreement, it's almost a legal contract, right? Various was like a standard day laborers wage sufficient mostly for subsistence. And so that detail seems theologically loaded to me. These workers relate to the landowner on the basis of a contract and what is owed. And so their claim at the end of the day will be exactly that. They're owed something and they know it, and that sets up Then this contrast with a second group, which is mostly all about grace because by the time we get to that third hour, like. Approximately like 9:00 AM then we're beginning this pattern repeated at the sixth and the ninth hours. And crucially, for those workers who go out, go out and get recruited, there's no wage that's specified for them. Only the promise of like whatever is right. And so they enter the vineyard, not on the basis of a contract, but on the basis of like the owner's word and character. And that seems to be like more of a picture of trust and not, not calculation. Yeah. Separate than like the first group. And that marketplace, idleness, as I read this, doesn't imply like laziness because verse seven clarifies like they just had not been hired. Right? They were overworked, they were unemployed. They were marginalized. So it does set up, like you said, everything you just talked about, about the kind of this, I like that. Like the Jonah, the Jonah whiners or whatever, like yeah, they want to complain about this, right? There are, and there are two, two separate groups that have kind of been brought into the fold, not under different terms or pretenses, but differently. [00:28:17] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And I think too, bear's saying, um. Although there are elements of parables that are very, very directly applicable. Mm. We shouldn't read this as though every, every specific thing in the parable is not a parable. Right. Right. I think we can look at this and we can go, you know, you can read this in a way where, oh yeah, there's some people actually earn their, earn their wage, they earn ary. Right. It's a fair contract. And they work all day and he says, well, I'm gonna give you what's right, what you, what I owe you.  [00:28:45] God Owes Nothing [00:28:45] Tony Arsenal: The reality is God doesn't owe any of us anything. Right? Right. He owes us wrath and judgment and destruction. And so even, even the people who are the hard workers in the kingdom of God don't merit and never could merit, um, to, in a certain sense, in a strict sense and stick with me before you send your, your angry emails in a real strict sense. Even Adam couldn't merit. What was, well, it was guaranteed to him, according to the Covenant of Works, God had to condescend to make the covenant of works in order for Adam to have any sort of fruition of his blessedness. So there there's no natural obligation, strict obligation that God has to reward the work of his creatures because nothing they could do could ever be sufficient enough to obligate him. So the, the obligation of himself, and that's, this is where I do think this is strong, the fact that he obligates himself to these workers to give them their denarius after a hard day's work  [00:29:37] Jesse Schwamb: exactly  [00:29:37] Tony Arsenal: is itself. A covenantal, um, contractual, yes. But I actually read this as sort of a covenantal thing and the, the strange part is that the people don't recognize the sort of semi gracious covenantal nature of this. Yes.  [00:29:50] Grace In The Hiring [00:29:50] Tony Arsenal: I think, um, you know, there have been times when I, where I've been unemployed, um, not for very long. Now, I know some people face unemployment for a lot longer than I ever have, but I know there was times where I was, I was looking for work and someone would say to me like, Hey, you know, my, my, my lawn needs to be mowed. Could you come over and I'll, I'll give you 25 bucks to mow my lawn. It's a small lawn. Um. That's a gracious act in most cases. Right, right. Um, yes, I'm performing a task. Yes, they're paying me, but they didn't have to offer me that work. They didn't have to offer me that job, especially when it's something that like they could have accomplished themselves. They could have just done it themselves. Um, so I think there's an element of that here, that there's, there's a condescension of the master to these workers, to these laborers who are not part of his household. These are not, they're not slaves. These are not people who are part of his household, who are regular employees. These are people that he goes out into the market to, to find and to hire. And as we see some of, some of these mark, like the difference between the ones that are hired and the ones that are not hired until later in the day, the parable's not super clear about what it is. Just that they're not hired, it doesn't say the lazy ones were left there. The ones were exactly, that were ugly or had like limp legs or like just couldn't cut it. It just says like there was some that didn't get hired. Um, so there's a gracious element of this, and that makes the recognition at the end or the lack of recognition at the end by these full day laborers, the, the sort of like recognition, this, this entitled ness, um, that actually makes it all the worst. It's like the people who are outwardly attached to the covenant of grace. Um, I know all the Baptists in our, our group, their heads just exploded, but like are outwardly attached to the covenant of grace, um, who wanna somehow complain about like the graciousness of the covenant of grace that they're outwardly attached to it. It's just sort of like a form of, of theological and temporary insanity, I think. And that's what we see on full display here.  [00:31:40] Jesse Schwamb: It's definitely all grace. You're right that nobody's gonna get injustice right in this parable. And I think that's definitely exemplified the further out you go in this hiring order. [00:31:49] Eleventh Hour Mercy [00:31:49] Jesse Schwamb: So by the time you get to 5:00 PM which is pretty extraordinary, right? Only really like one hour remains before sense, right? It's the end of the working day.  [00:31:56] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:31:56] Jesse Schwamb: You can imagine like these guys who are being hired at the hour probably can contribute very little in the last hour of the day, right? But this owner goes out and hires them and no agreement is stated whatsoever. It's just pure grace. The landowner's question, why do you stand here idle all day? I think to your point, underlies their vulnerability. They were not idle by choice, presumably. And so I think we rightly here in this, like a foreshadowing of those who are called the late in redemptive history, Gentile sinners, the seemingly least qualified for kingdom membership. All of that I think is at play and it's all, it's getting this lovely setup of all these groups to help us understand what that kingdom is actually like.  [00:32:33] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:32:35] Reverse Payroll Setup [00:32:35] Tony Arsenal: And then we have this, um, this is where the sort of dramatic tension turns, right? The end of the day comes and, uh, the master calls the, the people that he brought last, right? He calls the people who'd only been there for an hour and he starts to go down the list of the people who, the people who were last, and the people who came in next. And the people who came in next, right? And the workers who had contracted at the beginning of the day. Um, they're watching this happen and they're kind of going, oh, this is gonna be good. Like, that guy's only been here for an hour and he got a denarius. You know, the logic is probably like, I'm gonna get 12 denarius, like I'm gonna go 12 days worth of work. Um, because I think there's an assumption on their part, um, that the master's fair that he is, he's providing an equitable wage. Um, of course the master is fair, but he's providing an equitable wage that's commensurate with the work delivered. A delivered, delivered, right? And that, that's the key to this parable.  [00:33:26] Merit Mindset Exposed [00:33:26] Tony Arsenal: I think the expectation that God. Helps those who help themselves. Right? God rewards those who put in the hard work. God. God provides blessing or salvation according to the merit provided by the one who's being saved. That perspective is what's on full display here. Yes. By the people who are, uh, the ones who contracted for the full day. They're not thinking about the covenant that they have with this person or the contract they have with this person. They're not thinking about the fact that they agreed to work for the day in order to earn a day's wage. They're thinking about how this actually is gonna work out great in their favor. They're looking at this as a strictly merit-based kind of a, a thing. And you would think that like when the, the one hour people come in, they get a denarius, and then the three hour people come in and they get a denarius. You'd think they would pick up on it at some point, but then in the course of the payroll, it doesn't seem that they do. They still get to the bottom of the list and think they're gonna get more compared to the other people who all got the same.  [00:34:22] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that display piece is critical to this. It is like complete setup. Like you can imagine he, the landowner calling everybody together at the end of the day and they're all standing around. Some of them are exhausted because they've again born all their work in the heat of the day on their backs. They're tired, they're dirty, maybe they're exhausted. And he starts in this reverse order. And by the way, we should note that there is something here that's beautiful in that the law, the landowner is law abiding because right evening payment is mandated in the Torah. So we see all this taking place as to fulfill the law in some ways. But the reversal of the order that last of first is like such deliberative and good narrative storytelling and staging, isn't it? 'cause it ensures that the first hired workers are going to witness the payment of those who work the least. And if without that order, if you just did it the other way around, the more a crisis of the parable disc like completely goes away.  [00:35:10] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:35:10] Jesse Schwamb: So this execution of the payment at the owner's will, it just shows that he has. He's completely independent. His sovereignty belong. The sovereignty belongs to the master alone. And so this 11th hour workers receiving a full day's wage for one hour of work, that's like an act of sheer generosity. It's not proportional justice. And I think as reform, people, maybe all of us at some point have had this conversation about predestination and justice and mercy. And again, really I think putting a crowbar between this idea that nobody is receiving injustice, but some are receiving mercy and grace. And here these first hired workers seeing this form, like you said, this expectation that they're gonna receive more, like you said, where that came from. Yeah, it's just them, right? It's purely manufactured in their own reasoning. It's not anchored in the covenantal promise and certainly not witnessed in the grace that they should be receive, like perceiving as the payments get doled out, like sequentially moving in their reverse order toward those who have worked the longest. But their expectation reveals that they have fundamentally misread like the landowner's character. They're still operating in the register of a contract and not grace.  [00:36:16] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And you know, I think to sort of lock this covenant covenantal frame and sort of like lack of recognition of the covenant into place too, when you look at the language of this parable, um, and especially kind of what it's following up on, it's coming on the heels of this interaction with this rich, rich young ruler who comes in and he thinks that he's gonna earn eternal life by keeping the commandments. Um, and, and he, he has this outward sense or this outward display of pty. He's calling Jesus good. He's saying he, you know, he keeps the commandments, Jesus doesn't even disagree with him actually, that he has connect. Yes. You know, I think it's implied that, well, of course you haven't, but he, he still is graciously trying to like, convince this guy, no, you actually need to abandon your self righteousness and, and pursue and follow me. Um. But this is a parable where like other people are listening, right? There's other witnesses. This isn't like the rich young ruler came to him in the middle of the night, like Nicodemus. This is something that's happened on PO on in the public. So we can anticipate that the Pharisees and the Sadducees and the scribes and the lawyers were all aware of this. They may have been there, but they were at least aware of this happening. And I think there's some language in here that is actually directed at those people.  [00:37:30] Grumbling As Accusation [00:37:30] Tony Arsenal: And, and here's where it comes in, is you get to verse, um, we'll start reading again at verse nine. It says, when those hired about the 11th hour came, each of them received a denarius. Now, when those hired first came, so we're referring to the people who are hired at the beginning of the day. Now, when those who were hired first came, they thought they would receive more, but each of them also received a denarius and on receiving it, right? So this is as, this is, um, uh, just unbelievable as they're receiving the denarius on receiving it, they grumbled at the master of the house. Now, just the way that I read that and said the word grumbled tells you that that word is really important here. Yes. If you look at this Greek word. And you compare it to the, the word, the usage of this word in the, the, um, Sept. Yes. Which of course is the Greek translation of the Old Testament. This word most commonly appears in the wilderness wandering accounts. [00:38:22] Jesse Schwamb: Yes.  [00:38:23] Tony Arsenal: Right. And the, the primary sin of the Israelites during the wilderness wandering was grumbling against the Lord. And this grumbling against the Lord in that context is not just a general complaining, right. It's not just like a, a sort of like a, a general dissatisfaction or like murmuring. This isn't like water cooler frustration about your boss. The grumbling in the Old Testament in this context is a covenantal accusation, right. So this is tied to the, the accounts where Moses first is told to strike the rock, and he does so when the water comes out, and then second is told to speak to the rock, but he strikes it. I won't go into all the details, but the scene that's being, being displayed there is the people come, they accuse the Lord of abandoning them into the wilderness. And this scene where Moses is set up on the rock and he strikes the rock, that scene is a judicial scene. The people have filed a covenant accusation against the Lord, and in reality, it's the people who have been unfaithful. But the Lord standing in the place of the rock is the one who is struck, right? Jesus was the rock in the wilderness from which the water came. Paul says that in First Corinthians, right? So this language of grumbling in this is not just, they're not just complaining about the fact that they didn't get what they thought they were going to, they're questioning the veracity of the covenant that was made. So they're, they're still locked into this merit-based. This merit-based idea even more than it seemed at first, right? There's a logic to the idea that like, oh, if the, the master is actually paying a wage of one denarius for per hour, like there's a logic to that. But it's not just that they're saying, and this is, this explains the response of the master. It's not just that they're saying like, Hey, wait a second, like the wage rate that you're paying is not right. They're saying you have violated the terms of our covenant in the way that you have paid us. 'cause it's upon receiving it that they complain or they grumble and the master says more or less like, Hey. You agreed with me for one Denarius, I'm giving you what you've earned. I'm giving you what you agreed on. Why don't you take it and go. So the answer is not to try to justify why he is free to pay these other people more, or why he's free to pay these people a perceived less. The answer is, again, they're complaining against the covenant. He is bringing it back to the covenant saying, well, here's what the covenant relationship was. You work for the day. I give you Denarius. We're square here, we're on the same page. We've fulfilled our covenant obligations, and you've received your reward for that. So I, I think that's another thing we have to lock in here is this is not just a general idea of like unfairness that's being presented. This is not just a general idea that people are saying the master of the house is unfair. They're saying he's covenantal. Unfaithful. Right? That's a pretty big accusation.  [00:41:09] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that is, thank you by the way, for completely stealing the whole tugen thing from me. Like I was just going hot to Tugen to find that reference. And now all I can do is add to it. So that is from at least one of those occasions, a number 16, and I just wanna read the verse. This is 16 six. So Moses and Aaron said to all the sons of Israel at evening, you will know that Yahweh has brought you outta the land of Egypt. And in the morning you will see the glory of Yahweh for he hears your grumblings against Yahweh. And what we are that you grumble against us. So I'm totally with you. This is not subtle. The workers first complaint here, the first workers' complaint is like theologically serious. Uh, I think that's what you're hitting us on. Like it charges the owner with injustice. Right. And as I read it, the grievance has like two layers or two parts, I would say. One is this comparative part, which is basically saying, you made us equal to them. Right? And the second be like a meritorious part, they have worked harder and in worse conditions. And that's why they say things like, it's, it's all inflammatory language, isn't it? Like the scorching heat emphasizes like the real bodily cost and their complaint. I think if we're honest, it's not irrational, but it's spiritually revealing at least because Right, they believe their greater effort, mayors greater reward and they resent that grace shown to others. So like you said, they're bringing forward a very serious grievance and it's, it's not just like, Hey, we think maybe could you give us a bonus? Right. But that is a matter of faithfulness. And in fact, like as I'm looking at this tugen here, shout out to logos Bible software. And I'm saying that that verb that we're talking about in Exodus 16 is in the imperfect tense. So this is, they kept on grumbling and it is like an an echo of Israel's murmuring in the wilderness, which I presume like Matthew certainly had intentionally used there or had that view in part casting these workers as the same types of those who relate to God through entitlement rather than gratitude. So it's like insults upon insult here, but it is to emphasize this fact that it's no small accusation, it's not subtle, it's meant to be in your face. They're coming in hot with this and they're making a big deal about it.  [00:43:16] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, and again, I think like underscoring the covenantal nature of this is so key. And I think, you know, when we look at this, we really have to land that this is not just saying. Your wage structure is not right. 'cause and, and we gotta remember, they weren't there when the master went and made this bargain, or, you know, brought these other workers into the vineyard. They weren't there to hear what covenant or contract he did or didn't make. And as we've commented, they didn't, he didn't even make a covenant with them. He basically just said, I'm gonna put you to work and I'll pay you what's fair. I'll pay you what's right. Um, and they went, okay, you need the work and thank you. Like, I think, I think that's kind of like the, the scene here is they're standing there. They recognize they're not gonna get a wage for the day, especially these ones that he's coming in at the 11th hour, they're not gonna get a wage for the day. And as you said, these are subsistence workers. Right. These are people that if you don't get a wage, and this is the, the grounding of the Old Testament, um, the Old Testament command of, of paying at the end of the day is that if they don't get their wage, they're not gonna eat. They're not gonna have food, they're not gonna have the money they need to survive. Um, so he comes in and he basically says like. You don't have a job that's not gonna be good for you. I'll take care of you. I'll, I'll give you a job and I'll take care of you. And the ones who are complaining and grumbling, they have no line of sight to that process. That, that's right. They make a lot of assumptions about the, and this is, goes back to, um. The parable of the talents, which we haven't really talked about yet. The, the, there's a lot of assumptions about the nature of this master that the, the contracted or covenanted day laborers are making that don't turn out to be accurate. Right. They, they assume that he's working, as you've said, that he's working on this one-to-one, you know, quid pro quo. You do this, I do that kind of a, a methodology and he's actually operating on a basis of a much more. Basic, uh, grace principle. Uh, and again, even, even the principle of hiring these original workers and covenanting with them is gracious in the sense that he didn't have to hire them. Right. So, so all along the way they're, they're, it's like the epitome of looking a gift horse in the mouth.  [00:45:24] Jesse Schwamb: Yes.  [00:45:24] Tony Arsenal: They've been hired, and so yes, it is right for them to expect their, um, to expect their wage, whatever that wage might be. But they, they are misinterpreting the idea of what the wages are and how the wages are to be delivered. They're, they're applying, this is actually a lot like job's, friends, right? Their, their logic is not actually all that bad, but they have, they have missing parts of the picture that makes the logic. Apply differently in this particular situation. They think that this, this master works on a strict merit-based. You do X amount of work, you receive X amount of money. And this master is actually more functioning on this covenantal principle of, I'm gonna pay you what's right, regardless of what, what work you've done, which, what work is actually owed to you. And the master makes these, this agreement with these other workers to just say, go into the vineyard and then when the evening comes, I'll pay you. Right. Well, he intended to pay them what they needed to survive, regardless of how much work they provided. Right? So they're all, even though there's a formal contract to say these, this group works for the whole day and this group, you know, and, and they receive one day's labor, at the end of the day, he's graciously providing another day of survival for all of these people, for the work that they're, they're putting forward regardless of how much they actually contribute to his bottom line. [00:46:41] Owner Defends The Covenant [00:46:41] Jesse Schwamb: And we see that in verse 13, where the landowner gives his defense, you know, it says. He and he replied, friends, I'm doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for Denarius? Now the address, because now I'm deep in the Greek Tony. Here we go. So the address I'm seeing in, uh, again, shout out to Locus Bible software, it, this use of friend is not like the warm fellows, but like a more formal or distance term of address. It's used elsewhere in Matthew. But I think the point here is that the owner's first line of defense is this contractual point, which you're saying. I have not wronged you. He's kept his agreement precisely. No injustice has been done. And that's crucial. The owner doesn't re appreciate justice. He actually fulfills it. He obligates himself and he fulfills that obligation. And what the worker receives is exactly what was promised and exactly what is due. And so by the time he gets to verse 14 where he says, take what belongs to you, and go, I choose to give to this last worker as I give to you here. I think this is like the theological beating hide of this whole bad boy. Yeah.  [00:47:37] Jesse Schwamb: The landowner explicitly invokes his will, his sovereign freedom to do and to give as he pleases, which is exactly how God behaves. It's not a negation of justice, but this declaration of something beyond justice, it is grace. He exercises his freedom and generosity to those who had no claim, and the command, take what belongs to you and go is, is kind of like a world dismissal, like, like you were saying. Yeah. We're in the courtroom. He's like, I, I've ruled on this already. Like, bring Brian, bring your grievance. Here's my ruling. Take what you have and go. Their grumbling has revealed that they're not celebrating the kingdom. They're actually grieving it. So yeah, you know, I think original invocation of like Jonah is right on the money. It's basically like, are are you mad enough? Yeah, I'm mad enough to die. Like, how dare you give me, give me this great shade and then take it away from me. Yeah. And in some ways this is even worse because what they have been given has been that were promised to them, was given to them, and they get to retain and God says, go, or the landowner as God says, go now and take what is yours. Take what I've given to you graciously. But your point that like what supersedes that, the antecedent to all of that is still God's covenant keeping, covenant making promise, making, right? That sets the whole thing up. But I love this idea that, you know, I will choose, it's my desire, it's language of divine volition. And of course the reform theology, this single verb resonates with the entire doctrine of election. It's God's free, sovereign, and gracious will to bestow blessing without reference to merit, like praise his name.  [00:49:00] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And then we come to kind of the close of this parable, right? And this is, this reall

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Peterson (2015-): fake LDPenny Pritzker: nepobabyDame Emma Walmsley: she's a woman, and a Dame, and not American and has a degree in Classics!!Mark Mason: he's black!Trump's SEC Is Going After Fewer Wall Street CrimesThe agency released long-delayed data that confirmed a steep drop in enforcement.That contradicts statements that the SEC's head, Paul Atkins, made to Congress in February, disputing reports that suggested his agency was prosecuting fewer crimes, and assuring lawmakers that SEC enforcement work had not seen a steep decline.In its release of case numbers this week, the agency framed its enforcement drop as an effort to focus more on cases where investors saw direct harm and to better use agency resources: “Regrettably, such resources have been misapplied in prior years to pursue media headlines and run up numbers, and in turn, led to misguided expectations on what constitutes effective enforcement.”784 in 2023 … 456 in 2025. WHO DO YOU BLAME?Trump, duhPaul Atkins, duhSEC re-tread: served as an SEC Commissioner from 2002 to 2008 under George W. Bush Private Sector Influence: founded Patomak Global Partners om 2009, a powerful consulting firm that advised major financial institutions (like Goldman Sachs) and crypto giants (like FTX and Coinbase) on how to navigate the very regulations he now oversees.the wealthiest SEC Chair in history: $330M net worthUpon being confirmed as Chair in 2025, Atkins sold his stake in Patomak Global Partners but refused to disclose the identity of the buyer, leading critics like Senator Elizabeth Warren to call the payout a "pre-bribe" from industry players.Shortly after taking office, Atkins oversaw the dismissal of high-profile "regulation by enforcement" cases against Coinbase and Binance, effectively handing the keys of the financial system to the crypto industry that funded his firmIn 2006, Atkins infamously argued that granting executives stock options right before good news was released shouldn't be considered insider trading: "It is cheaper to pay a person with well-timed options than with cash."During his first stint as Commissioner (2002–2008), Atkins was a staunch opponent of increased oversight for investment banks. He is frequently blamed for ignoring the systemic risks that eventually led to the subprime mortgage collapse.Elon Musk (DOGE):Under directives from DOGE, the SEC was required to submit plans for "large-scale reductions in force" (RIFs). This resulted in the termination of many probationary employees (those with less than two years of service) and several senior directors at regional offices.To avoid even more aggressive firing, the SEC offered $50,000 buyouts to staffers who agreed to leave voluntarily. This led to a significant "brain drain" of veteran trial lawyers and investigators.Staffers linked to Elon Musk and the DOGE initiative were placed in key administrative roles (like the Office of Personnel Management) to oversee these cuts, effectively bypassing the traditional civil service protections that usually slow down government layoffs.Biden, for allowing so many enforcements MMHudson Technologies Announces Election of Alan Sheriff and Jeffrey Feeler as Independent Directors. WHO DO YOU BLAME?Top shareholder Ernest Lazarus (9%). Lazarus is primarily a biblical figure from the New Testament known for being raised from the dead by Jesus after four days. The name represents resurrection, returning from the brink of failure, or a person overcoming extreme adversity. I'm thinking he needed a Sheriff in case all that digging up corpses from cemeteries went sour.Director Loan Mansy. Getting a good loan is all about putting out feelers to different banks so Loan needed a Feeler to get shit done.Director Vincent P. Abbatecola.Forgive me, maybe I watch too many episodes of The Sopranos but Vinnie used to be the Chairman of the National Packaged Ice Association and that just sounds a bit scary and a bit made up. Like, put him on Ice, Vinny.Speaking of death, Vinny is also a director on the United Hospice Board.And speaking of God, he also serves on the St. Thomas Aquinas College President's Council. St. Thomas Aquinas was declared a “Doctor of the Church” and had mystical experiences. Feeler and Sheriff? That is so Tommy Aquinas.Director, CEO, President, Chair, former COO, former CFO and top shareholder (6%) Brian F. Coleman, who has been with the company since 1997 and somehow still sits on the Nomination Committee! Dude, that is soooo cheating and you know he was the one who asked for a Sheriff and a Feeler. DRMATTMicrosoft Pauses Carbon Removal Purchases.Satya NadellaChair and CEO with 27% influenceIT WAS HIS TARGET - carbon negative by 2030One year later on LinkedIn: “As a company, we've set ambitious climate goals to be carbon negative, zero waste, and water positive by 2030, and we're making progress as we work towards a more sustainable future”And last year, MSFT's chief sustainability officer Melanie Nakagawa: "In 2020, Microsoft leaders referred to our sustainability goals as a 'moonshot', and nearly five years later, we have had to acknowledge that the moon has gotten further away."It's worth pointing out - any target set by an executive they don't hit is a failure of leadership - either the target was ill conceived, not ever meant to be attained, or they just failed to actually manage to the target. There aren't other options - if I set a target at Free Float of $1bn in sales by 2030, invest entirely in crypto, lose it all, and we achieve $45 in parking tickets by 2030, do I blame the changing market environment and just skip the target? Penny PritzkerHead of the Environmental Yada Yada committeeBats .269 on carbon intensity overall, all at MSFT (that's horrific in case you needed context - .500 is the average peer director)Reid HoffmanThe AI evangelist, founder of LinkedIn, heavy investor in AIReid Hoffman says AI is going to be blamed for ‘just about everything', except AI is on pace to use as much as 20% of ALL ENERGY in the US this year, up from 4% for data centers in 2024AI in 2026 will equal all of NYC carbonOn the Environmental Yada Yada committee!Catherine MacGregorOne of top performers on carbon on the board at 0.632, CEO of Engie SA, a massive French energy company focused on renewable energyOn the Environmental Yada Yada committeeEnergie:MSFT:4% influence, only 2 year tenure on MSFTThe 2020 Microsoft Board: DRReid HoffmanHugh JohnstonTeri List-StollSatya NadellaSandra PetersonPenny PritzkerCharles ScharfArne SorensonJohn StantonJohn ThompsonEmma WalmsleyPadmasree WarriorIT'S BASICALLY THIS BOARD??? Five years, three gone - and Sorenson died of cancer, so really TWO gone… Thompson fully retired, Warrior is on TWO boards BUT one is in India (Mahindra and Mahindra) and the other is Spotify with zero voting rightsTalk about a protected class - this board is one of the worst in its peer group for carbon, is fully of connections (75% connected), has a history of overpaying CEOs… OpenAI touts Amazon alliance in memo, says Microsoft has ‘limited our ability' to reach clients. So Amazon wants to unleash Sam Altman even after he was written up as a massive sociopath bent on narcissistic control of the doomsday button of AI. WHO DO YOU BLAME AT AMAZON?Uncle JeffeExec Chair, WaPo destroyer, megamegayacht owner, who's wife was profiled in the NY Times as encouraging the uberwealthy to practice conspicuous consumption and flaunt their wealth68% influenceCEO Andy Jassy14,000 layoffs in October, 16,000 in January, all for AIBut seriously, do we think he's running anything?Board member Andrew Ng: DRAI Fund LP managing partner, DeepLearning.AI LLC founder, LandingAI founder, chairman and co-founder Coursera, Managing Partner AI AspireIf this guy wrote “AI” any more in his bio it would read like ChatGPT wrote itPartnered with OpenAI for AI courses on his shitty companiesNg TAUGHT Altman at StanfordBoard member Patricia StonesiferMs. Stonesifer has served as a trustee of The Rockefeller Foundation, a private foundation dedicated to promoting the well-being of humanity throughout the world, from 2019 to 2025Board members Jonathan Rubinstein, Keith Alexander, Wendell Weeks, and Jamie GorelickFree Float data says they are the only ones with knowledge in Public SafetyCombined influence of 10%

This CEO Is Disrupting The Insurance Industry With Tech & AI. “Never confuse effort for success”GuestTim Johnson (Founder & CEO)CompanyHealth In Tech, Inc. (Nasdaq: HIT)Websitehttps://healthintech.com/Tim's BioTim Johnson is the founder and CEO of Health In Tech. He has spent his entire career in the insurance industry, beginning on the property and casualty side at a small regional insurer before moving to larger firms including Liberty Mutual and AIG. He later transitioned to the brokerage side, working at leading brokerage firms where he built captives and developed alternative risk solutions.Mr. Johnson has over 30 years of experience as an entrepreneur and has founded multiple successful companies in the medical insurance sector. He has extensive knowledge in the stop-loss insurance and self-funded benefits space, and between 2005 and 2007, he helped pioneer some of the country's first Stop Loss captive programs for healthcare, applying proven techniques from the P&C world that had not previously been widely used in employee benefits. He also launched his own insurance carrier and built a vertically integrated platform offering underwriting, claims, repricing, and medical management services.Seeing how far behind healthcare was in technology, Tim began building Health In Tech with a system designed to help brokers quote and bind health plans more quickly and efficiently. That early tool ultimately evolved into the AI-powered platform Health In Tech is known for today.Company Bio:Health in Tech (“HIT”) is an insurance technology platform company, which offers a marketplace that aims to improve processes in the healthcare industry through vertical integration, process simplification, and automation. By removing friction and complexities, we streamline the underwriting, sales and service process for insurance companies, licensed brokers, and TPAs.Marketplace: We are a health insurance marketplace where insurance companies can list various stop-loss policy options for self-funded benefits plans. Licensed brokers registered on our platform can log in, upload certain required information, select policy plans, obtain a bindable quote and sell them to small businesses. Our technology enables us to medically underwrite insurance policies and usually produce bindable quotes within approximately two minutes, allowing us to deliver an integrated and seamless sales cycle.Customizable Solutions: Beyond policy underwriting and sales, our marketplace offers customization of health benefits plans, vendors, claims, and network services. Brokers can select customized plans that suit their customers.Accessibility and Savings: We make self-funded benefits plans and stop loss insurance accessible online for small businesses. We aim to deliver meaningful cost savings for low-risk, small employers with comparatively healthy employees through a digital medical underwriting process. We seek to deliver time savings for employers, brokers, TPAs, and carriers, by leveraging both external and internally developed technology.HIT was founded on the belief that self-funded benefits plans and stop loss insurance should be simple and streamlined with significant transparency. With over 30 years of industry experience of our management team, we understand the complexities of the healthcare insurance market, and we know how to integrate the multifaceted aspects of the industry. Our solutions and technology platforms do exactly this through vertical integration, process simplification, automation, and digitalization.

On this episode of the Insurance Coffee House, Nick Hoadley is joined by Elaine Rocha, former Chief Investment Officer at AIG and current CEO of the Madison Square Boys & Girls Club of New York City. Elaine brings a career that spans law, insurance, investments, and executive leadership, shaped by a series of deliberate career moves and transitions across the industry.Elaine shares how she first entered the insurance industry through private legal practice, working on complex insurance coverage matters in the London market. She reflects on the early years of her career, where she developed deep technical expertise by working through large-scale claims, litigation, and policy structures, and how that foundation shaped her approach to problem-solving and learning.The conversation explores her move into AIG in the aftermath of the financial crisis. Elaine discusses the decision to leave private practice, the risks involved in joining a company undergoing significant change, and how she approached building credibility in a new environment. She explains how she navigated a large and complex organisation by focusing on learning quickly, asking questions, and developing strong relationships across the business.Nick and Elaine discuss how her role evolved within AIG, moving from legal into broader leadership responsibilities. Elaine reflects on the importance of saying yes to new opportunities, even when they sit outside your core expertise. This included stepping into roles such as Chief of Staff, moving into the investments division, and eventually becoming Chief Investment Officer, overseeing complex operations, transformation programmes, and large-scale strategic initiatives.The discussion highlights the breadth of experience required to operate at senior executive level within a global organisation. Elaine describes how working across insurance, investments, operations, and finance gave her a unique perspective across the value chain, including asset liability management, technology transformation, outsourcing strategies, and regulatory engagement.The conversation then turns to her transition into her current role as CEO of the Madison Square Boys & Girls Club. Elaine shares how her experience at AIG prepared her to lead an organisation undergoing transformation, and how many of the same leadership principles apply in a nonprofit environment. This includes building alignment across teams, introducing new operating models, leveraging technology, and working closely with an engaged board.Nick and Elaine also explore the relationship between executive leadership and the board. Elaine reflects on what she has learned from both sides of the boardroom, including how to ask better questions as a director and how to manage board relationships effectively as a CEO. She emphasises the importance of preparation, curiosity, and using past experience to guide better decision-making.The episode closes with practical advice for executives considering their next move. Elaine encourages leaders to take calculated risks, remain open to new opportunities, and continue building their skill set over time. She also highlights the importance of networking, staying informed on industry developments, and being intentional about long-term career direction.If you'd like to follow Elaine's work across insurance, leadership, and her current role at the Madison Square Boys & Girls Club, connect with Elaine Rocha here on LinkedIn.The Insurance Coffee House Podcast is brought to you by Insurance Search.We are a global Insurance Executive Search Consultancy, supporting Insurance and Insurtech businesses to attract and retain the very best insurance talent.Find out more about showcasing your employer brand as a guest on the Insurance Coffee House Podcast or sign up to our News and Insights.Or follow us on LinkedIn, Twitter or Instagram.Insurance Executive Search Consultants in USA, London and Bermuda.Copyright Insurance Search 2025 - All Rights Reserved.

"Japan is different and hard." "It's consistency, it's sustainability of the vision and the theme that's going to matter." "You couldn't be the super-God sits up in the ivory tower." "Leadership is about inspiring people to go somewhere that they wouldn't necessarily go on their own." "Respect the history and the culture that is Japan." Brief Bio Bob Noddin is the CEO of AIG Japan and a long-time Asia business leader whose career reflects deep adaptability across cultures, industries, and operating environments. His connection with Japan began in 1982 as a college exchange student at Kansai Gaidai in Osaka, where early exposure to Japanese psychology, history, language, and society gave him an unusually strong foundation for later leadership in the country. After returning to the United States, he joined Citibank with ambitions for an international career, but when a planned transfer to Japan fell through, he moved to AIG instead — a decision that shaped the next three and a half decades of his professional life. His AIG career took him across Asia on a series of increasingly complex assignments. What began as a short-term posting evolved into leadership roles in the Philippines, Thailand, Hong Kong, Korea, and Japan, giving him broad exposure to different operating cultures while sharpening his ability to lead through ambiguity, restructuring, and growth. He later returned to the United States as Global Head of Operations and Technology for AIG's property casualty business, overseeing a vast international footprint before asking to return to Asia during the financial crisis. Back in Japan, he took on major leadership responsibilities during a period of merger integration, organisational reform, and national crisis, eventually leading one of the company's most important markets worldwide. Across that journey, he developed a leadership philosophy grounded in visibility, trust, resilience, and the need to adapt global expectations to Japan's distinctive business culture. Bob Noddin's leadership story in Japan is not one of a parachuted-in foreign executive trying to impose a template from head office. It is the story of a leader who spent decades earning the right to run one of the most complex roles in AIG's global portfolio, while learning that Japan rewards patience, consistency, and human connection far more than slogans or imported management theory. His perspective is shaped by a rare combination of early academic immersion in Japan, long operational experience across Asia, and direct accountability for large-scale businesses in crisis, integration, and transformation. What stands out most in his account is the distinction he draws between knowing that Japan is different and actually leading effectively inside that difference. He describes a country and corporate environment shaped by structure, seniority, collaboration, and extremely high standards of quality. Those strengths helped build modern Japan, but they can also create friction when an organisation needs speed, innovation, or bold change. In that context, the challenge is not simply strategic clarity. It is how to move a system conditioned by nenko-style seniority, uncertainty avoidance, and deeply embedded consensus habits without triggering organisational antibodies. Noddin identifies the real obstacle not as frontline employees, but as what he calls the "thermal layer" of middle management. This layer absorbs direction from above, filters it, softens it, delays it, and often protects the existing culture from disruption. In Japan, where seniority and harmony remain powerful forces, this buffering function can become a major drag on change. His response was not dramatic confrontation, but patient cultural triage: identify the people already leaning towards a more proactive leadership style, invest in those who could develop into that style, and separate them from those who were simply dead wood or actively cancerous to progress. His approach to change is strikingly practical. He introduced role-play into management development, studied how Japanese executives in other industries handled transformation, and used visible examples to normalise reflection, experimentation, and ownership. He also changed recruitment, insisting that professional-track hires speak at least one additional language, not because English alone mattered, but because exposure to another language and culture expands thinking. That decision reflects a core belief running through the interview: that leadership in Japan requires widening mental models, not merely importing foreign practices. Technology and innovation appear in his thinking not as abstractions but as tools that must be paired with psychological safety. People will not propose better systems, digital improvements, or new customer models unless they believe failure will not destroy them. In a culture where a mistake can carry a disproportionate social cost, he made a point of publicly taking responsibility when experiments did not work and praising courage even when outcomes fell short. That is a subtle but powerful form of decision intelligence: separating the quality of a decision from the certainty of an outcome. Perhaps the strongest theme in Noddin's interview is that trust in Japan is built through presence. He argues that leaders cannot sit in an ivory tower. They need to be visible, approachable, and unmistakably human. That means town halls, travel, direct emails, birthday cakes, karaoke, drinks with staff, and honest conversations with agents and employees alike. In Japan, where formal roles can conceal strong emotion, trust is not built through authority alone. It is built when people feel the leader can be touched, tested, and believed. For Noddin, the ultimate lesson is clear: respect Japan's history, stay resilient when the ivy-covered brick wall appears, and focus relentlessly on shared objectives rather than issuing instructions that produce compliance without ownership. Q&A Summary What makes leadership in Japan unique? Bob Noddin sees leadership in Japan as uniquely shaped by history, structure, and social expectations. He points to a business environment that values seniority, teamwork, incremental improvement, and order. These are not superficial preferences but expressions of deeper cultural patterns that emerged from national rebuilding and collective effort. Concepts such as nemawashi, consensus, and uncertainty avoidance remain highly relevant because organisations often prefer broad alignment and risk containment over speed or individual heroics. What makes Japan distinctive is that these qualities can be both strengths and constraints. They support quality, discipline, and reliability, but they also create resistance when a leader is trying to drive innovation or break with tradition. The foreign executive who mistakes Japan's politeness for easy agreement is likely to fail. Leadership here requires reading the context beneath the formal surface and understanding that the visible meeting is often only one part of the real decision process. Why do global executives struggle? Global executives often struggle because they underestimate how much translation is required between headquarters expectations and Japanese reality. Noddin says head office may intellectually understand that Japan is different, but repeated explanations eventually sound like excuses unless the local leader can convert that difference into results. Executives sent to Japan for short rotations can also become trapped by a buffering layer of local management that protects the system from meaningful change. He argues that many foreign leaders fail because they arrive with urgency but without enough seasoning, continuity, or local credibility. Japan is not a market that can be reset in three years through force of personality. It requires sustained presence, consistency of message, and a willingness to stay long enough for people to believe the leader is not simply passing through. Without that, local teams wait out the foreign boss and preserve the old logic underneath. Is Japan truly risk-averse? Noddin believes Japan is not simply risk-averse in a crude sense. It is better understood as highly sensitive to the consequences of failure. In a system where there is perceived to be one right way to proceed, shaped by education, hierarchy, and social accountability, the downside of getting something wrong is far greater than the upside of trying something new. That makes people cautious, especially if they fear isolation or reputational damage for standing out. His answer is not to lecture people about risk-taking, but to separate risk from recklessness. In practical terms, that means showing people that thoughtful experimentation will be supported, that leaders will absorb the blame when outcomes fall short, and that lessons learned matter. In this sense, better leadership creates better risk literacy. It helps employees distinguish manageable uncertainty from unacceptable exposure. What leadership style actually works? The style that works, in his view, is visible, human, and resilient. He rejects the distant, untouchable executive model. Leaders in Japan need to be accessible, to travel, to engage directly, and to demonstrate humility. Trust grows when employees see the leader as a real person rather than a remote authority figure. That human connection becomes especially important in a culture where emotions are often controlled in formal settings but remain powerful underneath. At the same time, effective leadership is not about giving detailed instructions. Noddin draws a clear line between management and leadership. Management allocates tasks; leadership inspires people to go somewhere they would not necessarily choose on their own. The most effective leader in Japan aligns people around an objective, tests understanding from multiple stakeholder viewpoints, and then gives teams ownership over how to deliver. How can technology help? Technology helps when it supports better ways of working rather than simply automating existing silos. Noddin's examples show that innovation in Japan needs a protected environment. His venture-style internal project, which pulled people out of the normal structure and allowed different work patterns, dress codes, and idea development cycles, created space for creativity that the regular organisation would have smothered. In a modern sense, this is close to building a digital twin of the operating culture: a parallel environment where new behaviours can be tested before wider deployment. Technology also becomes powerful when combined with decision intelligence. Data, systems, and new processes are useful only if people feel safe enough to question assumptions, propose improvements, and learn from imperfect launches. Without that cultural layer, digital transformation becomes cosmetic. Does language proficiency matter? Yes, but not in the narrow sense of passing language tests. Noddin values language because it signals cultural exposure and cognitive flexibility. His recruiting shift towards candidates fluent in another language was really a shift towards people who had lived beyond a single worldview. In a global company operating in Japan, that broader perspective is essential. He also suggests that language matters because it reveals how people have been trained to think. His example of learning kanji stroke order captures a larger point: if people are educated that there is one correct sequence and one correct form, then innovation at work becomes psychologically difficult. Language learning, cultural immersion, and broader experience help leaders appreciate that mental model and work with it more intelligently. What's the ultimate leadership lesson? The ultimate lesson is to respect Japan deeply while refusing to be defeated by its inertia. Noddin advises new leaders to honour the country's history, social cohesion, and achievements rather than dismissing them. At the same time, they must stay resilient, because they will encounter hidden resistance, delays, and beautiful ivy covering solid brick walls. His final message is that leadership in Japan succeeds when it combines respect with resolve. Leaders need to focus on the objective, not just the task list; build trust through presence; and create systems where people own outcomes rather than merely comply with instructions. That is how change becomes durable rather than cosmetic. Author Credentials Dr. Greg Story, Ph.D. in Japanese Decision-Making, is President of Dale Carnegie Tokyo Training and Adjunct Professor at Griffith University. He is a two-time winner of the Dale Carnegie "One Carnegie Award" (2018, 2021) and recipient of the Griffith University Business School Outstanding Alumnus Award (2012). As a Dale Carnegie Master Trainer, Greg is certified to deliver globally across all leadership, communication, sales, and presentation programs, including Leadership Training for Results. He has written several books, including three best-sellers — Japan Business Mastery, Japan Sales Mastery, and Japan Presentations Mastery — along with Japan Leadership Mastery and How to Stop Wasting Money on Training. His works have also been translated into Japanese, including Za Eigyō (ザ営業), Purezen no Tatsujin (プレゼンの達人), Torēningu de Okane o Muda ni Suru no wa Yamemashō (トレーニングでお金を無駄にするのはやめましょう), and Gendaiban "Hito o Ugokasu" Rīdā (現代版「人を動かす」リーダー). In addition to his books, Greg publishes daily blogs on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Twitter, offering practical insights on leadership, communication, and Japanese business culture. He is also the host of six weekly podcasts, including The Leadership Japan Series, The Sales Japan Series, The Presentations Japan Series, Japan Business Mastery, and Japan's Top Business Interviews. On YouTube, he produces three weekly shows — The Cutting Edge Japan Business Show, Japan Business Mastery, and Japan's Top Business Interviews — which have become leading resources for executives seeking strategies for success in Japan.

Insurance leaders Brandon Schuh and Nick Hartmann unpack the real impact of AI on insurance operations after Insurify's ChatGPT app triggered a 3.9% drop in the S&P 500 Insurance Index. They separate hype from reality, examining how AI actually enhances productivity versus serving as a scapegoat for strategic workforce reductions. The conversation explores Munich Re's Ergo unit cutting 1,000 positions partly through AI integration, while contrasting this with AIG's ambitious 500,000-submission target using their AIG Assist platform by 2030.Major consolidation continues reshaping the industry landscape with Zurich's £8 billion ($11 billion) acquisition of specialty insurer Beazley following rejected initial bids, and Sompo Holdings' regulatory-approved $3.5 billion purchase of Aspen Insurance. Brandon and Nick also analyze the explosive Brown & Brown versus Howden lawsuit after approximately 200 employees departed during holiday season 2025, revealing tensions around non-compete enforcement and talent mobility in brokerage.Beyond M&A drama, Schuh and Hartman discuss underwriting culture at Lloyd's marketplace where reputation risk follows individual decisions, the legal profession's AI adaptation challenges for entry-level associates, and why operational visibility, not more tools, solves agency productivity problems. They emphasize that AI's greatest value lies in eliminating tedious data analysis so professionals can focus on client relationships and strategic advisory work.Key Takeaways- Insurify's ChatGPT integration caused temporary market panic but represents comparison shopping evolution, not industry disruption- AI productivity gains enable faster policy reviews while freeing teams for high-value client advisory work- Munich Re's Ergo unit (not entire company) plans 1,000 position reductions over five years with AI assistance- Zurich secured Beazley acquisition after multiple rejected bids reached £8 billion valuation- Sompo Holdings (not Sampo) received regulatory approval for $3.5 billion Aspen Insurance acquisition- Howden faces multiple lawsuits after approximately 200 Brown & Brown employees departed simultaneously in December 2025- Lloyd's underwriters carry personal reputation risk with each binding decision in the marketplace- Operational visibility tools like FreeFlow.ai solve agency bottlenecks without replacing producersChapters00:00 Episode introduction and sponsor FreeFlow.ai01:35 Return from hiatus and personal updates06:15 Bourbon tasting and Bob Dylan discussion07:14 Insurify ChatGPT app market impact analysis08:42 AI fears versus realistic productivity gains10:33 Legal profession AI adaptation challenges12:48 Policy review efficiency transformation potential13:07 Munich Re Ergo workforce reduction reality check18:15 Industry consolidation: Zurich/Beazley and Sompo/Aspen deals19:39 Brown & Brown versus Howden employee poaching lawsuit21:38 Underwriting culture and reputation risk at Lloyd's marketplace27:22 Ping An and global insurance employment statistics28:44 AIG Assist platform exceeding submission targets30:50 Two truths and a lie game segment33:42 Closing remarks and next episode previewFact Checks Correction: Sompo Holdings (Japanese insurer), not "Sampo," acquired Aspen Insurance for $3.5 billion with regulatory approval expected H1 2026 Clarification: Munich Re's Ergo primary insurance unit (not entire Munich Re) plans 1,000 position reductions in Germany over five years with AI integration Connect with RiskCellar:Website: https://www.riskcellar.com/Brandon Schuh:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552710523314LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-stephen-schuh/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/schuhpapa/Nick Hartmann:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickjhartmann/

In this episode, Nathan Pierce addresses growing cultural and global challenges to marriage and the family, highlighting recent developments overseas that reflect shifting definitions of marriage and increasing restrictions on speech related to biblical beliefs. He explains why these trends matter and how they can influence culture here in the United States.Nathan then provides a legislative update from California, breaking down how “spot bills” and intent language work, using SB 934 as an example. With thousands of new bills expected, he shares how Family Protection Ministries tracks legislation that could impact families, parental rights, and homeschool freedom—and asks listeners to pray for wisdom during this busy season.He closes with brief thoughts on the recent Super Bowl halftime show and the importance of discernment in today's cultural climate. He offers an update on current cultural and legislative developments and encourages listeners to remain informed, prayerful, and grounded in their convictions.AIG on 4-man "Marriage"https://answersingenesis.org/family/marriage/german-pastor-marries-four-men/?srsltid=AfmBOopEXS8wpBuMnLM876Sv-UxK8t0ZbqLQ_WfTQkUIZn0tzz3n4CcDBrazilian Court on Trans Dissenthttps://www.wsj.com/opinion/brazil-criminalizes-transgender-dissent-69ae7917?gaa_at=eafs&gaa_n=AWEtsqcs7mMoCrQ2Jfa58R-wXQbSsQgI0sOh4VbqIY2Sb0NYKgaM6aXsBlsIZXeijNs%3D&gaa_ts=698a787b&gaa_sig=h9sZS9aWTnaAgWXIKU3VD9xRgq_1ez8X7erjwuVnjNSrq3DuCcTTbLqIqUHdw60doprn7bhhcC8M1eN5KaX7lA%3D%3DThe Superbowl Halftime Show:https://www.christianpost.com/news/one-million-moms-calls-for-boycott-bad-bunny-super-bowl-halftime-show.htmlhttps://fpmca.org/halftime-show-2026/FPM Website:fpmca.org

APAC stocks were mostly higher as the region took impetus from the gains on Wall Street, where the S&P 500 approached closer towards its record levels, and the Nasdaq outperformed as the tech rebound persisted.US President Trump and Chinese President Xi's summit is reportedly set for the first week of April, POLITICO reported, but the White House later clarified that the Trump-Xi meeting has not been finalised.The EU is reportedly readying options to give Ukraine gradual membership rights and is preparing a series of options to embed Ukraine's membership in a future peace deal.UK PM Starmer told Labour MPs that he is "not prepared to walk away" from power or "plunge us into chaos" as previous prime ministers have done.European equity futures indicate a slightly lower cash market open with Euro Stoxx 50 futures down 0.1% after the cash market closed with gains of 1.0% on Monday.Looking ahead, highlights include Norwegian CPI (Jan), US NFIB (Jan), Weekly ADP, ECI (Q4), Retail Sales (Dec) & EIA STEO. Speakers include Fed's Hammack & Logan, Supply from the Netherlands, UK, Germany & US. Earnings from Coca-Cola, S&P, Gilead, Robinhood, Welltower, Duke Energy, Datadog, Ford, AIG, Xylem, Spotify, AstraZeneca, BP, Barclays, Ferrari and Mediobanca.Read the full report covering Equities, Forex, Fixed Income, Commodites and more on Newsquawk

European bourses are mostly firmer, US equity futures are flat/incrementally higher.DXY is flat awaiting Retail Sales/ECI, JPY bid alongside JGB stabilisation whilst NOK gains post-inflation.Fixed rebounds from Monday's pressure into data & supply; Gilts outperform as PM Starmer pushed back on calls to resign.WTI and Brent mildly lower, XAU remains above USD 5k/oz; Copper muted heading into Chinese festive period.Looking ahead, highlights include US NFIB (Jan), Weekly ADP, ECI (Q4), Retail Sales (Dec) & EIA STEO. Speakers include Fed's Hammack & Logan, Supply from the US. Earnings from Coca-Cola, S&P, Gilead, Robinhood, Welltower, Datadog, Ford, AIG, Xylem.Read the full report covering Equities, Forex, Fixed Income, Commodites and more on Newsquawk

On this episode of the Insurance Coffee House Boardroom Series, Nick Hoadley is joined by David Herzog, former CFO of American International Group (AIG) and one of the most experienced finance and governance leaders in global insurance. David served as CFO of AIG from 2008 to 2016, stepping into the role in the immediate aftermath of the Global Financial Crisis and helping lead the company through one of the most complex turnarounds in modern financial services. In this conversation, David reflects on the years leading up to the CFO appointment, including rebuilding AIG's financial infrastructure as Group Controller, and the intensity of navigating markets that rapidly moved from strained, to expensive, to effectively closed. He shares what it was like inside AIG as liquidity evaporated, why coordination with the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury was pivotal, and how the organisation focused on stabilising the business, stopping the “bleeding,” and ultimately repaying government support. The discussion also explores David's transition from executive leadership into board governance. He talks through early lessons from his first directorship, how he approaches chairing audit and oversight roles, and what aspiring directors should understand about the line between being an overseer and a doer. David also shares why the opportunity to chair Aegon appealed to him, and what he looks for in organisations on a journey of strategic change. Connect with David Herzog on LinkedIn.The Insurance Coffee House Podcast is brought to you by Insurance Search.We are a global Insurance Executive Search Consultancy, supporting Insurance and Insurtech businesses to attract and retain the very best insurance talent.Find out more about showcasing your employer brand as a guest on the Insurance Coffee House Podcast or sign up to our News and Insights.Or follow us on LinkedIn, Twitter or Instagram.Insurance Executive Search Consultants in USA, London and Bermuda.Copyright Insurance Search 2025 - All Rights Reserved.

In this episode, Tracie Thompson, Global Head of Strategic Clients at Cytora, joins FNO: InsureTech to discuss how technology is transforming underwriting while preserving the essential role of human judgment. Drawing on her experience working with global insurers, Tracie explains how Cytora digitizes submission intake and enables underwriters to move away from fragmented data and manual processes toward faster, more consistent decision-making.  The conversation explores the realities of serving multinational insurance organizations, where technology adoption must balance standardization with local regulatory and operational complexity. Tracy also draws on her experience at AIG to share insights on leadership, resilience, and the importance of trust in complex market environments. Throughout the episode, she emphasizes that the future of underwriting lies in collaboration between advanced analytics and experienced human insight.    Key Highlights  Tracy discusses Cytora's role in digitizing submission intake and underwriting workflows, enabling underwriters to synthesize large volumes of structured and unstructured data while reducing manual triage and administrative burden.  The episode explores how Cytora operates as a platform within the underwriting ecosystem, supporting consistent decision-making across teams, regions, and lines of business.  The conversation examines how global insurers navigate uneven regulatory frameworks and market conditions, requiring technology providers to balance standardization with local adaptability.  Tracy draws on her experience at AIG to share insights on leadership, organizational resilience, and the importance of trust across insurers, clients, and partners in complex operating environments.  The discussion looks at the practical realities of integrating AI into underwriting workflows, including adoption barriers, explainability, and cultural resistance. AI is positioned as a decision-support tool that enhances, rather than replaces, underwriter judgment.  As experienced insurance professionals approach retirement, Tracy highlights the urgency of knowledge transfer and preserving institutional expertise. Technology can help capture and scale this knowledge, but human intuition remains central to complex risk decisions.  The episode also addresses the insurance industry's branding and talent challenges, emphasizing the need to attract diverse, analytically minded professionals and reposition insurance as an innovative, impact-driven career.    Join us at ITC London, Jan 26 & 27 at The Brewery, to continue the conversation on underwriting innovation, AI, and the future of insurance. Secure your spot here

As a first-generation American from Saudi Arabia, Rzan Yunus '17 learned from an early age what ambition and perseverance can lead to. She credits her immigrant father's determination to build a successful career and life for his family in the U.S. as inspiration for her own strong work ethic and drive. It was that drive that led her first to a career in insurance at American International Group (AIG), and eventually all the way to Rice Business. Since pivoting from insurance into consulting, Rzan has put her Rice MBA to use as a senior director at Alvarez & Marsal, where she's helping companies solve tough problems. Rzan chats with co-host Brian Jackson '21 about how her father's pursuit of the American dream inspired her, the critical skills she picked up at AIG, why she was drawn to the Professional MBA program and how her experience at Rice has left a mark on her forever. Episode Guide:00:00 Introduction to Rzan Yunus01:00 Early Life and Family Influence05:39 Career Beginnings at AIG09:40 Pursuing an MBA at Rice18:28 Transition to Consulting23:07 Current Role and Consulting Insights35:40 Balancing Career and Personal Life39:46 Conclusion and Final ThoughtsThe Owl Have You Know Podcast is a production of Rice Business and is produced by University FM.Episode Quotes:Finding community, support, and belonging at Rice[12:32] When you learn entrepreneurship, you learn to hustle. You learn to think like an owner, or take  accountability to be resourceful, to drive results. I really appreciated Rice's pathways with other organizations and other companies, particularly consulting. I knew I wanted to explore that eventually and knew that they recruit based on certain programs. And then my favorite thing about Rice, and when I went and visited, is the team and peer atmosphere. You know, you spend so much time at work, but you also spend so much time in this program. And the people that I met and the camaraderie and the collaboration and the fact that you rarely ever achieve anything alone in life. I really wanted to be surrounded with people that were smart and hardworking and capable and collaborative and supportive. Very similar to the support system that I think everybody needs in life to be successful.Why the MBA program was an important investment in Rzan's future.[16:17] My two years in the program, and I think I said this earlier, it really changed my life. I am becoming and am the person now that I never thought I could have been 10 years ago, 15 years ago. I mean, the program is hard. It's a top MBA program for a reason. Balancing school and your personal life is difficult. Working full-time while earning an MBA is not a casual commitment, but it's the most important step that you can take to invest in yourself. Surround yourself with people that reflect the ambition and the dedication that is contagious. Why she chose to pivot to consulting[19:11] I chose consulting because I loved the variety of work that they got to do, you know, in every year, and this was something that really attracted me to it when I was meeting with people from Alvarez & Marsal. You know, you work in different industries and different projects. One year you might be doing a transformation for a media company. The next, working on a financial services operational improvement. The following year on a manufacturing cost reduction. And I think that continuous learning really appealed to me.Show Links: TranscriptGuest Profile:Rzan Yunus | LinkedInRzan Yunus | Rice Business

The S&P 500 also hit a new record. Plus: Shares in insurance giant AIG fall after announcing a new CEO. Katherine Sullivan hosts. Sign up for the WSJ's free What's News newsletter. An artificial-intelligence tool assisted in the making of this episode by creating summaries that were based on Wall Street Journal reporting and reviewed and adapted by an editor. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

La UE diu no a limitar els preus dels lloguers: en Nani Fornells, molt afectat. Comparem la productivitat dels sous de Madrid i Catalunya, amb el Duque i el Tebi. Aigües termals a Santa Coloma, gran dia per al Justo i José Luis Óvulos. 

Join The MisFitNation as host Rich LaMonica welcomes US Army Veteran Lori McVicar-Peltan — MP pioneer, private investigator, actress, comedian, and the definition of grit. Lori's journey is unlike any other. She served in the first group of women to go coed at Fort McClellan in 1978, trained as the first female Military Police boxer, and served on the streets of Frankfurt. After the military, she became the first female to start her own PI firm in Buffalo, NY, earned top investigative honors at AIG, and now continues her mission as a grandmother of 11, actress in the film Lucy and the Lake Monster, presenter at the VETTYS, and graduate of a comedy writing program. In this episode, we dive into trailblazing military history, resilience, humor, survival, and the courage to keep reinventing yourself through every season of life.

On this episode of the Scouting For Growth podcast, Sabine VdL talks to Rob Schimek, Group CEO at bolttech, about how bolttech's connector model is redefining global insurance distribution, from telcos to auto makers and beyond. They also talk about why the future of protection will depend on trust, data and design more than policy documents and premiums, and what leadership really looks like when you are building at the intersection of revelation, innovation, and human impact.  KEY TAKEAWAYS If you have an hour to solve a problem you should spend 55 minutes on the problem and then 5 minutes on the solution. I've spent my career in the problem, the formation of bolttech is the attempt at the solution – it's the path that I've chosen to bring that solution to the marketplace. Our mission is to work out how to close a multi-billion-dollar protection gap that has existed for years, that's getting bigger? In order to do that we need to really understand the problem. We think there are 4 basic drivers for this multi-billion-dollar protection gap that and they're pretty irrefutable. We're trying to make a seamless connection between the buyers of protection products (insurers) and the distribution partners who have access to the customers so we can put those solutions into the hands of the customers. bolttech's here to try to provide tailored, affordable, accessible, and convenience insurance in the hands of the customer on a B2B2C basis, connecting big partners who have lots of customers to the insurance providers. Without the data there's a tendency to paint everything with one brush, like it's all the same. Data is accessible and available on a real-time basis today and it can be available with no intervention, straight from the vehicle telematics about the unique driver. BEST MOMENTS  ‘We really want to connect people with more ways to protect the things that they value, we want to close the global protection gap.'  ‘The more we make connections frictionless, the more the connection will happen and the more the protection gap will get closed.'‘ If the mission and the vision are super-well-known then nothing can distract you from solving that problem, regardless of what's going on in the marketplace around you.'‘ If a customer doesn't trust the use of AI in their interactions with you then AI won't be successful in that space because it won't be accepted in that space. Ultimately it comes back to do we do things the right way and give the customers a reason to trust us?' ABOUT THE GUEST Rob Schimek is Group Chief Executive Office at bolttech where he leads the team across its operations globally, overseeing its growth and partnership opportunities. With more than 30 years of experience in the financial services industry, Rob previously held senior leadership roles, including Managing Director & Group Chief Operating Officer for FWD Group, President and Chief Executive Officer of AIG's commercial insurance businesses worldwide, and Chief Executive Officer of the Americas for AIG. Prior to that, he served as President and Chief Executive Officer of EMEA for AIG, and was the Chief Financial Officer of AIG's global property and casualty insurance business. LinkedIn ABOUT THE HOST Sabine is a corporate strategist turned entrepreneur. She is the CEO and Managing Partner of Alchemy Crew a venture lab that accelerates the curation, validation, & commercialization of new tech business models. Sabine is renowned within the insurance sector for building some of the most renowned tech startup accelerators around the world working with over 30 corporate insurers, accelerated over 100 startup ventures. Sabine is the co-editor of the bestseller The INSURTECH Book, a top 50 Women in Tech, a FinTech and InsurTech Influencer, an investor & multi-award winner. Twitter LinkedIn Instagram Facebook  TikTok Email Website This Podcast has been brought to you by Disruptive Media. https://disruptivemedia.co.uk/

In this week's episode of China Insider, Miles Yu goes solo. First, he examines Tesla's announcement that it will eliminate all China-sourced components from vehicles manufactured in the United States within the next two years. This marks a monumental shift in the company's supply chain and signals a broader decoupling of key US industries from longstanding Chinese chokeholds and security vulnerabilities. Second, Miles revisits the 2015 purchase of the US insurance firm Wright USA, which specializes in liability insurance for Central Intelligence Agency and Federal Bureau of Investigations personnel, by the Chinese conglomerate Fosun Group. He explains why the subsequent Committee on Foreign Investment in the US–mandated resale of the company back to Starr Companies, controlled by China's longtime friend Maurice “Hank” Greenberg and his AIG network, may be the more consequential part of the story. Last, Miles analyzes the China factor in the ongoing US–Venezuela standoff. He discusses how the Maduro regime has advanced Beijing's strategic interests of manufacturing global strategic distractions for the US by fueling instability and chaos across Latin America—the region long referred to as the United States' own “backyard.” China Insider is a weekly podcast project from Hudson Institute's China Center, hosted by China Center Director and Senior Fellow, Dr. Miles Yu, who provides weekly news that mainstream American outlets often miss, as well as in-depth commentary and analysis on the China challenge and the free world's future.

Sam Bankman-Fried, FTX scandal, AI, AIG, the AI grift, utilitarianism, effective altruism (EA), nuclear power, renewables, anti-natalism, Extinctionism, longtermism, how AI relates to the grid, predictive modeling, the overlap between AI & crypto scams, Peter Thiel, the pathological fear of death among the elite, the search for immortality, $LIBER, $Trump, $LIBER scandal, Argentina, Javier Milei, Hayden Davis, LeBaron family, cults, LeBaron family ties to Trump, money launderingDavid's bookMusic by: Keith Allen Dennishttps://keithallendennis.bandcamp.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this podcast episode, Dr. Jonathan H. Westover talks with Jennifer Carlson about the role of apprenticeships in preparing the future workforce. Jennifer Carlson serves as the CEO of Apprenti. Apprenti is a non-profit, apprenticeship intermediary and workforce consulting organization that delivers a secondary pipeline of tech talent to address U.S. domestic digital skills shortages. A former business leader with AIG, Progressive and adjunct professor at Seattle University, Jennifer also serves on the Tech Councils of North America (TECNA) foundation board, and as an Advisory Board Member - Apprenticeships for America. Check out all of the podcasts in the HCI Podcast Network!

On today's episode I'm joined by Keffer Rhodes who has worked on Adventures in Golf since season 5. With Season 9 of AIG underway, I invited Keffer on the pod for an impromptu, ChatGPT generated Q&A about our trip to Ukraine. Check out this season of Adventures in Golf on the Skratch YouTube channel.Head over to marinelayer.com and use code RANDOM to get 15% off.Follow along!@erikanderslang@randomgolfclub@kefferrhodes