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Hosted by melissa hall
2 episodes with melissa hall
2 episodes with melissa hall
2 episodes with melissa hall
FASCIST ATTACKS ON MAYORS, JUDGES & MORE; QR CODES FOR MAJOR RALLIES; PLANNING FOR A PROGRESSIVE FUTURE We start with our great poet Laureate MIMI GERMAN & her usual mystic verse. From Waldport, Oregon, we hear from ousted & now re-instated MAYOR HEIDI LAMBERT about her incredible saga on the way to remaking this pivotal spot in the American MAGA/saga. This far-and-wide astonishing attack on democracy by the MAGA Klan is dissected by co-host MIKE HERSH. Tough questions come from SCOTT KLATT who wants to know why Heide let herself get drafted for Mayor. From the LAProgressive.com we are updated by SHARON KYLE & DICK PRICE on the national assault on the Judiciary & our democratic elections. Then the great MYLA RESON narrates the amazingly absurd arrest of Newark, New Jersey Mayor Ras Baraka & three US Congresspeople for attempting to inspect a prison facility under their jurisdiction. The attack on Mayor Baraka is mourned by DANIELA, who warns us all to carry our birth certificates. Computer pioneer LEE FELSENSTEIN elaborates on his suggestion that rally organizers use business cards with QR codes, printed in special colors, with colored ink & union labels, feeding into local-generated websites. We get a critical whistleblower report from VINA COLLY in southern Ohio. From DR. RUTH STRAUSS we hear that it's illegal for federal agents to follow illegal orders, a Nuremberg Principle that has gained major weight with the rise of Donald Trump. Op Ed News founder ROB KALL then presents the beginning outline of a full progressive program going forward. California Indivisible's MIMI SPREADBURY warns us we must protect programs that mean life/death to so many. The need for unity is emphasized by MELISSA HALL as well as the imperative to protect the separation of church and state. From CHUCK PENACCHIO we hear a warning of “Democracy in Chains” & the weaponization of race and religion by Big Money. The fascist Catholic Opus Dei (see “THE DAVINCI CODE” & its female slaves are illuminated by LYNNE FEINERMAN of “Women Rising” Radio, a discussion we'll pursue next week!!
In our latest podcast, David Hossack speaks to Alan Delaney, Employment Lawyer and Melissa Hall, Data Protection Lawyer about the use of biometric recognition systems with employees. The podcast includes learnings from previous ICO enforcement action and practical tips for employers on what to consider before implementing these technologies.
In our latest podcast, David Hossack speaks to Alan Delaney, Employment Lawyer and Melissa Hall, Data Protection Lawyer about the use of biometric recognition systems with employees. The podcast includes learnings from previous ICO enforcement action and practical tips for employers on what to consider before implementing these technologies.
The Health Issues of Nukes, Lithium & Solar Panels > > > We open GREEP Zoom #216 with a deep dive into the horrors of our border patrols targeting tourists with horrendous torture and mistreatment. > > We then explore health impacts of nuclear power reactors on nearby downwind communities. > > The great JOE MANGANO of the Radiation & Public Health Project updates us on the multi-decade attempts to construct a data base on cancer rates & trends near nuclear power plants. > > Three Mile Island film-maker JILL MURPHY LONG reports on her horrifying experiences with cancer survivors from around the notoriously stricken nuke. > > Safe energy pioneer KARL GROSSMAN tells of his ground-breaking media contacts on the radiation issue. > > Moss Landing resident BRIAN ROEDER gives us terrifying reports on the lethal fallout from the lithium fire that “clobbered” downwind victims. > > With a report from SARAH AMINOFF we hear of the devastating impact on food production from the Moss Landing lithium fire. > > Scientist MADELAINE ADAMCZESKI raises core issues about the lack of regulation & safety standards at such lithium battery centers. > > Remembering the Karen Silkwood case, TATANKA BRICCA raises the prospect of large-scale health suits stemming from the Moss Landing disaster. > > Health specialist RICHARD LEAR catalogs the potential role EMF filters can play in curtailing the devastating impacts of “dirty electricity" on human well-being. > > Engineering legend TIM SCHOECHLE raises core issues about “badly designed equipment” harming people with solar panels using inferior inverters. > > Our erstwhile engineer STEVE CARUSO talks about shielding to protect us from stray rays emitted by electronic devices. > > Legendary researcher DONNA GILMORE outlines numerous problems with battery facilities that threaten human life. > > Sodium-based batteries used by the Chinese BYD automaker are introduced by MYLA RESON. > > The precautionary principle is raised by BETTY KISSILOVE. > > Indivisible's MIMI SPREADBURY emphasizes that there IS a lawsuit against Moss Landing & PG&E. > > A switch to Iron Air versus lithium batteries is proposed by MELISSA HALL as we head off to a post-nuclear/post-lithium Solartopian green-powered Earth.
GRASSROOTS ORGANIZING; DC HOME RULE; FIGHTING CELL TOWERS > > We start with a wonderful offering (as always) from our Poet Laureate MIMI GERMAN. > > For an excursion into the wonders of grassroots organizing we are led by the great ANDREA MILLER through the wilds of Wisconsin and Virginia. > > “Despair is not a strategy,” she says, & shows us how to use elections as an instrument of freedom. > > We're joined with critical input by long-timer activists MARION EDEY and MYLA RESON. > > Santa Monica solar homeowner PAUL NEWMAN chimes in with his usual brilliance, as does NICOLE UNG. > > The burning issue of DC HOME RULE comes to us with co-convenor MIKE HERSH & DC's former SENATOR MICHAEL BROWN. > > Georgia voting rights activist RAY MCCLENDON tells us of an upcoming march in Selma, in Atlanta & beyond. > > Long-time organizer FATIMA ARGUN gives us the word from Arlington, across the water from DC. > > Our expectations are challenged by MELISSA HALL, RONALD HALL, and LYNN FEINERMAN. > > We then take a deep dive into the life-&-death issue of Electronic Magnetic Frequency from CAMILLA REES. > > Camilla's scientific cohort RICHARD LEAR gives us a brilliant excursion into the scientific & epidemiological landscape around EMF. > > On the 704NOMORE legal front we hear from attorney SCOTT MCCOLLOUGH, who dissectstells us about the need for local resistance against cell towers. > > Long-time activist and EMF victim JULIE LEVINE evokes the need for our activism. > > The results of a “no EMF fast” that transcended the health impacts of wireless impacts are presented by TATANKA BRICCA. > > The latest from Indivisible comes to us through Mimi S. > > Mozilla browser is recommended by DR. RUTH STRAUSS. > > The need to build our networks comes from DEB SCHINDLER…and.... > > JOIN US AGAIN NEXT!!! for a deeper view on the Ukraine war…. no nukes….see you in Solartopia….
Melissa Hall Klepacki, a wellness advocate and healer, offers a vital perspective for those seeking answers beyond traditional medicine. With a Master's Degree in Acupuncture and a background in Education, Melissa has made it her life's work to help people understand the WHY behind their symptoms. CONNECT WITH HER startpoopingbetter.com https://www.melissahallklepacki.com Subscribe to this channel now! https://www.youtube.com/user/lunidelouis/?sub_confirmation=1 ---------------------------------------------------- Join our exclusive Facebook group @ https://www.facebook.com/groups/339709559955223 --------------------------------------------------- Looking for accountability to do your morning routine -- join us tomorrow morning, it's FREE: https://bestmorningroutineever.com/ -----------------------------------------------------
PELTIER, ELECTION PROTECTION & the ECO-BROADCAST NETWORK Our GREEP Zoom #209 begins with “Time” by our Poet Laureate MIMI GERMAN. We hear the latest about Leonard Peltier from TATANKA BRICCA and LYDIA PONCE in concert with the Indigenous community supporting him: “I would like to be out of prison, but I am a free man.” BARBARA WRIGHT reminds us to thank The Creator for the fact that Leonard is out of prison & with his people. LIndsay Graham, Lisa Murkowsky & Susan Collins are summoned for praise by DANIELA GIOSEFFI. Will Trump's GOP wear itself out with a Rope-a-Dope of illegal acts, asks MYLA RESON. We hear from MIMI S about the need to recognize what should have been with Bernie Sanders. From Columbus, Ohio we hear from SANDY BOLZENIUS about the kinds of election fraud that turned the Buckeye State to Bush in 2004. . From co-convenor MIKE HERSH we bemoan the Democrats' lack of a backbone—except when disenfranchising people of color. “How long can they keep this up?” wonders MELISSA HALL. Massive disenfranchisement demands a class action case against the Democrats for failing to protect the vote, says DAVID SALTMAN. Bring in Ray McClendon and the NAACP, says JOHN STEINER. Our erstwhile engineer STEVE CARUSO evokes some of the carnage now damaging our planetary consciousness. For the inauguration of the ECO-BROADCAST NETWORK we hear from green media activists LIBBE HALEVY, DOUG WOOD, JACK EIDT, ALEX SMITH, STEVEN STARR, URSULA RUEDENBERG about building a major media presence for a post-nuclear green-powered broadcast reality. With this gathering we “made history” says Mike Hersh, & will continue next week with still more.
The "poop whisperer" commit. Her name is Melissa Hall Klepacki. Her formal title is Functional Gut Health Expert. She helps women and men relieve themselves of constipation by understanding eight root causes and how to heal from them. Melissa didn't grow up dreaming of becoming a poop specialist. It was only after she was diagnosed with Lyme Disease in her 40s and after seeing 12 different doctors with no answers that her path to healing began to take shape with her discovery of comprehensive detoxification. Melissa's personal journey back to health convinced her that gut health is the cornerstone of overall wellness. Ancient Greek physician Hippocrates, known as the "Father of Medicine," said, "All disease begins in the gut." Modern science is only now discovering that gut health influences everything from digestion to dis-ease to mental health. It's why helping people resolve chronic constipation is a cornerstone of Melissa's research and continuing education, which she graciously shares with us in this episode.
An Appeal to Biden to Free LEONARD PELTIER; MLK Day Coming; Back to the Founders TATANKA BRICCA opens with a report on LEONARD PELTIER and the desperate need to get him out of prison alive. MYLA RESON follows up with a key point of information on how, hopefully, to do that. Our Poet Laureate MIMI GERMAN gives our GREEP Zoom #204 a perfect opening poem. MIKE HERSH hearkens back to the formation of the US republic with a warning on the horrors of fascism. DAVID SALTMAN explains Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, banning insurrectionists from holding public office. From western Massachusetts, ANNA GYORGY reminds us that Inauguration Day, 2025, will be Martin Luther King Dan. BARBARA HARRISON adds a plea to fight for democracy. MELISSA HALL asks about calling the White House to help free Leonard. CATHERINE STEARNS lets us in on resistance organizations in Oregon….including the Civil Liberties Defense Center. MICHAEL JOHNSON digs deep into the January 3 insurrection and its on-going impacts. Next week, December 29, we will reconvene, hopefully to celebrate the freedom of Leonard Peltier…& the partial redemption of Joe Biden.
WILL LEONARD LIVE? WAS THE 2024 ELECTION BOUGHT BY MUSK? WHAT NEXT IN SYRIA? TATANKA BRICCA updates the attempt to free LEONARD PELTIER to open GREEP Zoom #202,asking us to contact the White House. We then explore “Catch 2024” with STEPHEN SPOONAMORE and the possibility that Elon Musk bought this year's election. The legendary CLINT CURTIS introduces his movement to get the 2024 ballots counted. JOHN BRAKEY follows with his report from Arizona & digital imaging insights. We dive further into the electoral madness with RAY LUTZ. ELEANOR LECAIN calls out the Democrats for the traditional lack of interest in election protection. LYNN FEINERMAN raises the issue of Opus Dei and its dark fight against democracy. PAUL STOKES, DANIELA GIOSEFFI, MELISSA HALL join in with critical comments. ADAM THUNDERFACE adds more to the campaign to free Leonard Peltier. The chaos in the Middle East is then addressed by CHARLOTTE DENNETT & DAVID SALTMAN. We also address the brilliant recent piece on war by LUCIAN TRUSCOTT IV. …and we will see you again next week for our final session of the tragic year 2024.
Bo and Beth welcome Melissa Hall and Ralph Owen with Fields of Hope, a Charlotte-based organization working to combat human trafficking. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Don't you want to talk about pooping? I know, I know–just the episode you've been waiting for!In all seriousness, this is such an important topic. Pooping is one of the main ways we naturally detoxify our body. It's literally the body's pathway for getting rid of what we don't need. We've got to poop regularly to be healthy and lose weight. But sometimes things don't just come out right! Whether this isa n every once in a while problem for you or it's chronic, my guest Melissa Hall Klepacki will break down the root causes for constipation and what to actually do about it.More from Well with Lisa:Your Go-To Meal Guide: grab it HERESchedule your free strategy/coaching session: wellwithlisa.as.meWant YOUR weight loss question answered on the podcast? Fill out this google form HERELet's be friends! Follow me on instagram: @well_with_lisaJoin the waitlist for group coaching HEREGet your Fullscript account HERE10% discount! (pssst: my clients get 25% for life!)You'll find the probiotic mentioned under my favorites and a basic supplement plan under Ready-made community plans →Basics for WomenMore from Melissa Hall Klepacki:Website: MelissaHallKlepacki.comFree e-book: startpoopingbetter.com Instagram: @melissahallklepackiYoutube: @melissahallklepackiAbout Melissa:Melissa Hall Klepacki, M.Ac. a wellness advocate and healer, offers a vital perspective for those seeking answers beyond traditional medicine. With a Master's Degree in Acupuncture and a background in Education, Melissa has made it her life's work to help people understand the WHY behind their symptoms.In her 40s, Melissa battled persistent health issues, consulting 12 doctors before uncovering Lyme Disease as the culprit. It was a lengthy detox protocol that ultimately led to her full recovery, informing her work to lead others through the same journey.Melissa now collaborates with individuals nationwide, offers access to functional lab testing and develops solid protocols for healing. She is the Founder of GutReset123, a 12-week program that offers precision functional gut testing and personalized protocols to take people from constipation to liberation.
PODCAST The IMAGE of the BEAST Revealed (REV 13) - WARNING: Not for Everyone https://youtu.be/FvrQPpmraYM?si=ulHRJ3kYUNKrWvXm ——- You are not prepared – Melissa Hall https://youtu.be/GYbXECwHYas?si=ouOs_k3xesBnHm73 ——- Antichrist's Mark of Loyalty Dream 6-18-24 @ 8:29AM https://youtu.be/-0D3B1Sub0w?si=wbfXKJh1MR4lQeT3 ——- Tuesday Night Live, Earth Wind Fire & War? https://www.youtube.com/live/EgKGn6QD1I8?si=ayfr-XYdrNrE6Yta ——- Nobody's Even Telling You This Emergency Plan They Just Did https://www.youtube.com/live/m6X8YjCbDpg?si=CJEXoQioOzz1_iA1 —— PROPHECY -- AN ADVERSARY STIRRED https://youtu.be/56ZDNEFTU60?si=RPkJzbuLmaZhioLJ —— Biden Official Admits Great Replacement is Real; ‘They Want to Change th... https://youtu.be/F6XrtoAuR7M?si=3OBCgvxisf5b6PWe ——- WATER RESTRICTIONS ANNOUNCED ACROSS COUNTRY THIS WEEK (to many to list, look up announcements for last week ) The Global Report on Food Crises of 2024 - Bread… https://www.bread.org/article/the-global-report-on-food-crises-of-2024/ ——- WHO'S New Medical Dictatorship | Below The Surface - Episode 12 https://youtu.be/1ztd3avwImc?si=RdZzoPqfT0g-AdOH ——- THE RELIGIOUS SYSTEM OF THE ANTICHRIST HAS ALREADY BEGUN AND NO ONE IS N... https://youtu.be/Wbq50rCEdlE?si=pP4q_559WNxVcfoz ——- PROPHECY OF WEEKS AND 2025 JUDGEMENT OF EVIL PROPHECY 2025 & Enoch's Deadliest End Times Prophecy https://youtu.be/1FOOQTDWqdQ?si=8iRFy5iy9Gdp-BZu ——- PROOF the DOJ Is Running Election Interference for Joe Biden | Ep 360 https://youtu.be/fAtG-K1FHnc?si=YMBgjyFLIEJkKMvd ——-
Today we take a look at how the state of Alaska qualifies athletes to their outdoor state track and field meet. *Fun Fact: While the pole vault is not an official state meet event, they do have a strong tradition of an All Star meet held at Kodiak HS called the Bryan Young Invitational where three super teams are created from the different regions to compete against one another regardless of Division.
So let's go ahead and start talking about today's topic. So today I wanna talk about how childhood wounds affect business. Now, again, it sounds really corny, but I was reading this LinkedIn article recently and I thought, wow, this is me. All of this stuff was just me over and over and over again. And the article talked about, and if you guys want the link, I can put the link down below. But I just found it really, really fascinating and I was gonna put it up there, but the internet is not cooperating. So here are five glaring signs that you've experienced, childhood, basically wounds. One is you're scared to speak up to advocate or defend yourself. And when I think about grooms, I think about how we're afraid to advocate for ourselves. We're afraid to tell people our new price. We're afraid to do all of these things, enforce our policies, right? We're afraid they're going to get angry, or we're afraid they're going to leave us. And for a lot of that of us, that is a childhood wound. That is somebody taught us to not advocate for ourselves or not to defend ourselves. And unfortunately, I see this over and over and over again. One of the most important components of my price Increase Masterclass is all about how we need to really become the advocates for ourselves and use numbers, not feelings, to decide what our pricing should be. Okay? And the number two is, you don't experience yourself as a person of worth or value. So again, I really hate the phrase in the grooming industry, charge what you're worth. I think it's kind of a toxic thing to say, but if you listen to groomers on why we should charge this or we should charge that, it's all based on their skillset, right? It's not about I deserve a livable wage, my employees deserve a livable wage. It's all about my skillset. I offer this. And obviously we do need to make sure that you are creating a product or service that people wanna buy. We wanna make sure that you are creating that scenario, of course. But let's be real here. How many times have you seen someone say, you know what? I just have to make a livable wage. Most unless of it is, I deserve this because I'm worth it. But you know, what is that intrinsic value? A lot of times I'll hear people say something along the lines of, you know, I'll be able to charge more when I become certified, or I'll be able to charge more when we get the bigger facility. Or when I get the brand new mobile. It's like, okay, but do you not deserve to be comfortable? Right? Do you not deserve to live there? Number three, you're highly defensive and reactive and you can't respond with calm. Basically. You can't respond calmly. And with a little bit of, I don't wanna say dignity, that's not fair on the flip side, right? You either have the groomer who won't defend themselves at all, right? And when they finally do defend themselves, what do they do? They start flipping out on their customers. They're nasty, they're rude, they're downright mean, right? And it's almost like this overcorrect correction. So we have somebody who's like, okay, I'm gonna go from being really kind, you know, almost this doormat, and now I'm gonna be angry and venomous. So there's of course something in the middle. But I find that these are the two most common things that groomers do, right? And there's a big difference. And it was explaining, reacting versus responding. You know? And when someone tells me, you know, $600 for price increase, masterclass is too much money. I don't engage with that. You know? Or if I do, you know, I'll ask 'em. I said, okay, well what do you think is a fair price? Because I asked them to think about it. What do they feel like that it's valued at? And if they say like $20, that's when I explain, well, it's six hours of coaching content, right? Six hours of workshops. And that's a lot, right? It's a lot of content. So you know, that's very different than go f yourself. If you don't like the praise, you go, go to hell, da, da da. No. And I need to do that. 'cause if they don't wanna buy my product, then that's okay. And the same thing with grooming. And I've been in a cat van all week and their grooming prices started a hundred dollars for a cat. I mean, some people are paying $180 for a cat client. And if somebody is like, oh, it's very expensive, then you know, you can, you can have that conversation, right? 'cause a lot of times it's not that they don't, it's not that they don't, they can't afford it or it's expensive. It's that it's more than they thought it would be, or it's just not in their budget. And that's okay. And this is signs of a childhood wound. Now this doesn't mean that your parents are bad. This doesn't mean that anyone did anything wrong. Like I know there were things in retrospect, my son is 10 that I should have done better, but I didn't have the skillset to help him out, right? I would be a better mother today when he was little, because I know more and I'm older than I did then, you know? And you, there's just always more research. So when we wanna look at how we were affected as a child, we need to then go, okay, you know, when else do I act like this in my personal life? You know, things like accommodating versus actually being real. How many times do we over promise? We don't wanna tell that client, we're gonna shave your dog. And instead what they tell 'em is, we're gonna do our best. Not, I was far more snarky, oh, when I owned my grooming salon. And if somebody said, save as much as you can, and they would have like a pelto dog, I'd be like, what? In a bag? Because, you know, and I would tell him, I'm like, no, he's gonna be Mr. Clean bald. And so what would happen is if he came back with even a little bit of hair, they were happy. Versus if we promised them I'll save as much as I can. 'cause we wanna be accommodating. We wanna be that appeasing child. Then when that dog comes back at a four and we're really proud of ourselves, they see that as if we had shaved with a 30, right? Another one is complaining versus requesting. I love you. I love you all. Most of my listeners are not this person. But there is definitely a problem in our grooming industry with people just complaining about situations versus asking their clients, right? A lot of people say, my clients won't pay that, right? And I'll be like, okay, well have you asked them to pay that? And they're like, no, but they won't. And I go, okay, well ask the clients you don't like if they will pay that first, right? And of course, we do strategies, we do so many things like that in my coaching, a lot of times I will get so much pushback, pushback, pushback, pushback. And it's this, it's this. Complaining instead of, instead of actually going through with it, I said, okay, well let's actually request what you want. But it's this avoidance tactic of, I'll just complain because I don't wanna confront compromising integrity versus leading with truth. I see this in the grooming industry. When instead of shaving a matted dog or shaving a matted cat, we try to save the coat. I'm sorry if they neglected their pet did not brush it. And I don't expect my customers to brush their pets. And I'll tell you why. 'cause I mean, let's just say when I was in, when I was in my shop and when I was in my mobile, 'cause it's, it's like promising your dentist, you're not gonna eat candy. I would rather them be real with me and tell the truth. And let's create a plan based on the truth versus me having to compromise my integrity. So a lot of us would rather again, be that appeasing child and try to save a dog versus hand them back a bald dog or cat. I mean cat, I feel like it's easier 'cause you're like, listen, I'm not DM demanding this cat. I don't wanna die. Number four, you've internalized the narciss system or emotional manipulation of your parents or other authority figures in your life and potentially demonstrate some narcissistic traits. Now, I did say what, you know, what are common things of a narcissistic personality? Now, I'm not saying you guys are narcissistic, but after, and I love reading these articles 'cause they're so eye-opening. Here is a nar. Here's examples of a narcissistic personality. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance. Exaggerates achievements and talents expects to be recognized as superior without actually having the achievements. And so you have groomers that are like, I'm a worm, I'm worthless. Like I'm not this person. And then you have some groomers. Their business is shit like, their business is awful. They're not good groomers. They have a terrible personality. Their shop is garbage, and they think they deserve $200 an hour. So we do have groomers like that, guys, and maybe they're not a narcissist, but they have this inflated sense of ego. They have this inflated sense of importance. Like I, you know, again, going from I deserve a livable wage is very different than I'm here. So I deserve 50%. I don't know why I deserve 50%, but I deserve 50% commission, right? To is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. That sounds a lot like you guys when you're planning these big giant businesses. I wanna own 10 grooming salons with daycare and boarding and grooming. And I go, okay, well tell me the reality version of that. How are you gonna get a million dollars to open this facility? Do you even want these or is it just this again, grandiose egoic plan, this fantasy. And that's, that's very different. It's, there's a big difference between daydreaming and fantasizing in unhealthy ways, right? And a lot of you guys, when you're talking about this future business, you wanna run, you wanna run a business where your employees will magically take care of themselves. And I never have to be there and I'm just gonna replace me and I'm gonna pay them $15 an hour and I'm gonna have 30 of these salons. Like it's complete fantasy. Like complete fantasy requires excessive admiration. This may manifest different in groomers than people think. We really love when our customers hero worship us, when we save that dog's coat, we feel like a hero. We need to a lot of groomers. So when I teach how to run a grooming salon, I do not want the groomer to be the one to check in and out the dog. What I want is a receptionist to check in out the dog. And a groomer will often tell you, I don't want there to be any kind of communication error. And then I'll say, okay, but don't you write down the notes for next time? And they're like, well, yeah. And I said, okay. So if you write down the notes, then communication should not be a problem, right? But what it really comes down is they want that gratification of that relationship. They want that owner to make them feel important. And there's nothing wrong with that when done correctly. But a lot of times it's just in a very toxic ways. Believes he or she is special and unique and can only be understood by, or should be associated with other special and high status people. So I'm gonna use this in a way that I definitely have this tendency, not so much of like this really high status, but I often feel like the only kind of people I can be friends with, the only kind of people that can understand me are other groomers. I really struggle with making friends outside of the grooming industry. Do I make them? Yes. But are they significantly harder? Yes. Because I really feel like I, I will never be understood by anyone but a groomer. And it's such a weird tendency, right? 'cause some of it's true, some of it's like, you know, no one's gonna understand what it's like to have an in their hair, but a groomer. But there's so many instances where we self isolate as an industry, right? You could have someone buy a grooming business and they have done, like they, they're, they're, they will work alongside of us, right? They're not a groomer, but they will bathe with us. They'll blow dry with us. They will always help around us. They will never be our equal unless if they have been a groomer before. And that's a weird potentially narcissistic tendency in this industry. One is interpersonally exploitative takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends. Not so much, not so much intentional, but we've all done this, right? We've all had our bather or our employee do the dog that we don't wanna do. You know, a lot of times the reason that we are hiring that groomer or hiring that bather or hiring that receptionist is to do shit we don't wanna do. Right? It's like we won't do it. So we want our bather to do it. I'll, I'll say all the time to groomers like it, you know, they'll be like, I don't wanna groom cats, so I'm gonna hire someone, right? And I'll be like, okay, well do you wanna groom cats? And they're like, hell no, I would never groom cats, cats. They're terrible, dah dah. I'm like, okay, well then why are we hiring someone to do a service that you don't wanna do? And if they leave, they can't do, right? So, and I see a lot of grooming businesses, grooming salons built on the idea of instead of creating a team and a long lasting business, it's like, I don't wanna groom so I'm going to exploit somebody else so they can groom until their bodies don't work. I can't groom forever. So I have to have someone groom. And I'm like, okay, well how long do you think they, how long have you been grooming? They'll be like, 10 years. I'm like, okay, they've been grooming 10 years, so you expect 'em to work for you for 10 years. And then what? And they're like, oh, I expect 'em to groom for 30 years. I'm like, well, don't really work that way, does it? Another one is envious of others who believes that others are envious of him or her. Yeah, lots of groomers yell. They do not. They do not. How do I say this? In the nicest of ways, guys. Guys. You know, being nice is not my, my forte. I also love grooming cats. Ml, W j I, that's all I was doing all week is not all week, but I was in the cat van and I love it. I had so much fun playing with the cats and grooming the cats. So again, a lot of groomers would be like, oh, you know, so and so does this. So a lot of groomers will just sit there and like, they're just mean bitches. They're like, oh, that salon, they think they're so good, they charge this amount of money. Who can afford that? I would never make my clients pay that kind of money. That's highway robbery. That's price gouging. That's this, that's that. I mean, it's like high school envy, right? Another one is lacks empathy is unwilling or to recognize or identify with the feelings or needs of others. Most groomers are incredibly empathetic until they're not. I find a lot of power groomers tend to lack empathy. They'll be like, well I have, I can groom 10 pets. Why can't my brand new baby groomer? Right? 'cause your groomer's been grooming less than a year. Or they'll hire somebody and they're like, why can't they do everything I do? And I'm like, that's because if they could do what you do, they would open their own business, right? On the flip side, you have employees that are like, I want 50%. And when we're like, well in order to keep the business open we need to keep all payroll under 30%. And they're like, well I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna go work somewhere else. That definitely lacks empathy, right? So there's all these different ways that, and this was just in this article, the last way. The fifth way says, you don't believe you have what it takes to make true positive change in your life. And this hit me hard guys part of partly because I see so many groomers who are ready for change, but it's like you can get, I can give you guys all the tools, I can give you all the knowledge. I can give you hundreds and hundreds of hours of free shit and hours of paid stuff. But it's up to you to do the work. And it's up for y up to you to actually do it. And one trick I will say in one-on-one coaching is like, okay, let's close our eyes and picture ourselves in a year. Let's say in that year, you have not implemented what you have decided. You need to implement. Think, okay, now picture five years and you have not implemented what we need to implement. Let's think of 10 years and we have not implemented what we need to implement, right? 10 years is a lot of years, guys. We overestimate what we can do in one year and we underestimate what we can do in 10. If you had told River Lee that in 10 years she was going to open and sell to grooming businesses and become an international business coach, I would've told you you were on crack. I've been like, there is no way I could do all of that in 10 years. And yet here I am. I went from being pregnant, living in my car to being here. And it's amazing guys. But what we need to do is actually believe it. And when we believe it, we put our feet and do action. Now, don't get me wrong, and this is, this is one of the biggest things, right? So all these childhood wounds are affecting your business because they make you go back to what, whatever your habit was as a little kid, you know? And, and I want you guys, you're gonna be triggered. If you have a family that's anything like mine, you're gonna be triggered. I'm planning on going to Florida for Christmas and New Year's because I put me first. I know that sounds super selfish, but my emotional wellbeing is so much more important to me than I ever realized. Because when I'm okay and when I'm good, I'm a better parent. I'm a better business coach, I'm a better person. You know, my sister is gonna be a mom. Well she, she's due on the 20th of January, but that baby is coming in hot, you know? And I think about her and I think about everything that she's gonna have to go through. And her pregnancy is triggering me because she is gonna be a single mom. And that's so hard for me to watch someone make the same mistakes I made. Not that my son was a mistake, but you know, if I could, if there's any way that I could have protected her from doing that, it would've, but I can't. And that's very hard because my role in the family when I was growing up was the reality. And the person, like everyone would ignore the elephant in the room, whatever the elephant in the room was. And my job was to say, Hey, there's an elephant. Is, does anyone else see this elephant? 'cause it's here, it's here. And then my job in my family when I was growing up is to figure, to figure out how to get the elephant out. And you don't realize that. But as you get older, you just, you recognize it. 'cause 10 years seems to go really quickly the older you get. But so for my family, like I have to go, okay, who am I in my family? And what was my go-to feeling? And when I was a kid, my go-to feeling was anger, resentment, picking fights, arguing. Because if I was the good nice girl, then everyone just lived in this other reality. Just sharing guys, my dad was an alcoholic and my brother to this day will not acknowledge that our father was an alcoholic. Nope. He, he just won't. My, my brother, if you, if you talk to about our dad, he won't acknowledge it. And that's his journey, not mine. But there's a lot of wounds that come with that. It, you know, there's lots of, you know, why did my parent pick a substance over me? And the shame and the hiding and learning how to deal with your own adult feelings around alcohol, and am I gonna end up like my dad? And, and my dad died when he was 40. Ironically, the man died of mono. You would think he would've died of any other thing on the planet, but he died of mono. But you know, it's, I'm sure his immune system was just so compromised from drinking and everything. And the reason I share that is because when I talked to a lot of other people, when we have these childhood experiences that were not perfect, my mom worked really, really hard. She had her own issues. The woman I grew up with doesn't exist. My mom is so amazing. Yeah. Melissa Hall's saying, I love your mom. I love my mom too. But she has grown tremendously in the last 10 years. You know, and I'm not, I'm not talking bad about her. No different than I wouldn't talk bad about me. You know, I think about who I was growing up and I was a very angry kid and my own issues because 'cause of the things I went through. But like my mom is so wonderful in giving and supportive now, but she wasn't when I was growing up. And she wasn't when she was young, hurt people. Hurt people. And when I was, when I had my son, you know, I lived in my car and then I lived six months in my grooming salon. My mom had just gotten out of this really messed up relationship. She had dated a crack head for like 10 years. And she didn't, she just, she just pretended like this man had never done drugs. And, you know, and that's, I don't blame her for that. You know, that was a pattern that was from her family's pattern. You know, her growing up, you know, and again, I don't wanna just divulge those dynamics, but my grandparents had un unideal dynamics. And then when my mom was 14, my uncle Bobby died, so her brother died. And basically her whole family abandoned her and just pretended like he was still alive. You know? And that's really tough. And then when you go from there to being a mom of three kids with a dad who works, you know, my dad worked 80 hours a week. He was, he worked seven days a week and if he took a day off, he was intoxicated. You know? And I, I can't even imagine being in that position. And so when you think of that, that role she played and the role I had to play in my life, of course it affects my business, right? I think about how much validation I needed in my business when I had my shop. Especially I know my grandparents love me very, very much, but even now they ask me when I'm gonna get a real job. My mother bought my mobile growing business. She makes more money running the mobile business than she does as a full-time teacher. They keep asking her, when is she gonna just dump this? Because who would ever do this? And who would ever pay this? And they're just so unsupportive. And I think I have grown enough to step away from it. And I'm so proud of my mom because she, I, I can't imagine if that was my dad. You know, my dad had his own issues. But, you know, I can't imagine being a woman in her. I don't know if she's in her fifties or sixties. I don't even wanna say that. I feel like I'm gonna age my mom too much. But I can't imagine being a grown woman. You know, I'm a grown woman, but she's a grown ass woman. And having my father who I just want to be proud of me telling me I'm a failure all the time. I can't imagine how that, and that does affect her business. But that's why I'm here. Right? And then for her, you know, when I need that support, it's hard. She can't give me that support. Right? I'm giving her that support. And that's a different dynamic. So that affects my business because I have to self parent myself. Yeah. You know? And so for, for me in my business, you know, at this point doing coaching, there's all, if you think about this, if I have a mother who can't stand up to her father saying, when are you gonna get a new real job? You know, you're gonna be a failure. You're not gonna be able to do this. If I need support, she can't give me support. She can't gimme support and she can barely stand up for herself against my grandparents, nevermind standing up for me. So this affected my business in the beginning because when I had customers, especially when they'd be like, oh, does your mom own this job place? 'cause I looked very young and I would want them again at that defensiveness, that overly angry defensive, no ironed this, I deserve this, I do this. And it was so mad. And it was because I was taking out childhood wounds from wanting my mom to stand up for me and wanting my grandparents to see that I was successful. Taking it out on customers, you know? And we do this guys, and we don't mean to do it. You know, sometimes, you know, our parents told us we didn't deserve things or other wounds around money. Maybe it was that. Who do you think you are? You know, the queen of England. You know, when you want something or you want some money or whatever. My dad used to tell me all the time when I was a little girl, you know, and this is, this is not very nice. But he would tell me, you know, you got born to the wrong family. You know, you, we can't afford to keep you. You know, he was just really mean. And people that are hurt, hurt other people. So I grew up with a dad who was a drunk, a very functional, drunk, but a drunk. And he was a very mean drunk. Never, never aggressive and never physically harmful. But he said really mean things, you know, he told my sister, I know this pregnancy is affecting her because he told her the only thing she'd ever be good for is being pregnant and living off of a man. And I know that's, you know, absolutely devastated her. She never wanted to be a mom because of that. And again, how does that affect her business? Well, now that she is pregnant, now she doesn't own a business, she's an employee, but she doesn't wanna celebrate her pregnancy. She doesn't wanna tell anyone she's pregnant 'cause she's afraid of being judged. And that's gonna affect her, her workday. Because instead of, you know, telling clients, Hey, I'm nine months pregnant, she's trying to hide the fact, and that's not possible. But in her mind, she's going to do that. And for some of us that have had, you know, pregnancy issues, you know, I, I had a very traumatic pregnancy with my son because I didn't feel loved and supported by anyone. And then with my twin daughters that I, I lost at 20 weeks, you know, there was a lot of trauma for me about fearful that she might get. I, I, I, I, if you guys that don't know, I always assume people know I had, I was pregnant with twin daughters, we lost 'em at 20 weeks. My spouse left me, I went septic and I almost died. It was incredibly traumatic. And for me, I know my wounds are coming out because I'm fearful for her health. I'm fearful for the business, right? Because God forbid something happens to this baby or to her, you know, I'm up right now staying at an Airbnb to support my family, to help support their business. You know? And honestly, I don't mind grooming cats. So it's not a big deal. But it affects my business because that childhood wound where I'm the fixer, I'm the helper here I am leaving where I had just moved to South Carolina and up up here to help cover some of her maternity leave, right? And that affects savvy groomer because, you know, here I am trying to work out of an Airbnb instead of being home and stable and you know, in a place where, you know, the lighting isn't crap and the internet isn't inconsistent. So we do this, you know, and a lot of it is just acknowledging it. And then self parenting. Self parenting sounded like the biggest crock of shit I ever heard until I started doing it. It's been one of the best things I have ever done. So whenever I do something, let's say like today, you know, I was trying to get the lighting right in here and I was trying to get it cute in here. And there was just no way I, between getting the lighting, being near the internet, having my computer set up all of it, there was just only so many options. And I was so mad and so frustrated. And what was going through my head is, C, you're a failure. C you can't even do this. Right? Like, it was all these awful things that kept running through my head. And I had to take a step back and go, Hey, hey, hey. Right? Because unfortunately I don't have my mom a little bit now, but I didn't have neither grandparents nor a parent to say, Hey kiddo, you're doing the best you can. And you know what? You're doing this, you're gonna have a live show. Things happen. And if they can't accept it, and if they can't be happy that you're even here, well they can go fuck themselves. Right? That's what I need someone to say. And I don't really have anyone right now in my life. I don't have a husband to say that. I know if I asked my friends, they would say that, but you know, it's not really a conversation I wanna have with my friends, right? Because I know they're, you know, not placating me, but like I know they're gonna say that. So I have to start saying that to me. I have to say, Hey river, you're okay. You know? And just talk to myself kindly. And for a lot of us, you can tell how many people have had healthy, really healthy, really supportive childhoods by asking them, man, isn't the voice in your head nasty? And basically everyone I know goes, yes, you're, and it's because the voice in our head is basically our parents. And unless, and the people I know that don't have that problem, they have amazing, lovely, healthy, supportive parents. And that's not many people I know. And I think it's 'cause I don't attract those people. 'cause they don't need a lot of things I have to offer. You don't need help in their business. The way that somebody who has been through trauma does. And I find most groomers have had trauma. When you pick pets over people, it's generally because you can't trust people when you would rather take a dog who will bite you and poop on the table, or a cat that's gonna try and piss in your face, you know, over a person. It's 'cause you don't trust people. And that's okay. It's okay, you know? But we need to long term start either acknowledging these wounds and going, okay, how is this affecting my business, unintentionally affecting my business? You know? And it doesn't mean you fix 'em today. I mean, I've been on a three year, I don't wanna call it spiritual journey, healing journey, working on myself. And it's not easy. And it's really hard to pick myself first. And there's all the guilt on every level. And I have to go, okay, if I had this perfect parent, you know, and sometimes it's the perfect mom and sometimes it's the perfect dad, you know, like when I think about like a perfect mom, it, you know, what I would want mom to say is, you know, river, you have to put yourself first. Your mental health comes first. And then she would tell me when, when the airplane is going down, the oxygen mask come down, you've gotta put it on you first. 'cause if you're not okay, no one else is okay. Right? And on days when I feel like I'm gonna die alone, and that's an irrational fear, right? But again, childhood wounds. My grandfather told me at 25 that I was getting old and he didn't want me to die alone. Now that's because he was told, you know, he got married at 18, he was basically told, this is what you do. And we told my mother, basically, you get married and this is what you do. My grandparents have been married forever. You know? And this is just what you do. So it's one of those things like in a perfect world that dad would be like, Hey, don't worry about it. Mr. Wright is coming and he's gonna cherish you and he's gonna love you. Well, that same dad who would tell you that about a boy would tell you that about a customer, right? And this is why I always talk about that soulmate client. If you had that dad, that dad who would say, you wait for the right man, he's gonna come in. Maybe not on a white horse, but he's gonna be everything you ever dreamed of. That is the same dad that when you say, I wanna fire this customer. And he would say, well, tell me why. And you would say how this customer is disrespectful and mean and awful. He would be like, you know what, sweetie, here's what we do. We're gonna write a script together. We're gonna fire this client and the right one is gonna come along. And that's what a lot of us need is those perfect parents that we didn't have. So we've gotta create them and parent ourselves. And I do find that in a lot of my coaching, I have to, I don't wanna say parent people, but I have to be that supportive voice. 'cause it's hard to believe in yourself. And it's not that you don't believe in yourself at all, but it's like, there's only so far we can go. You believe we can be his success, but only a little bit of a success. Right? Just, just enough. Well, I hope you guys enjoyed the my TED Talk today. Today's topic was all about how C child childhood wounds affect business. And these are just examples. If you're triggered this holiday season, give yourself some grace. Parent yourself. And then when you hear these wounds come up, think about how you are internalizing them and projecting them in your business, you're gonna be so much happier. Once I realized that I didn't need the approval of my grooming clients, it was so much easier. I didn't need their validation. I needed my validation. I knew it was badass. I knew my grooms were, my dog grooms were okay. My cat grooms pretty damn good. You know, I didn't need that validation from them anymore. That validation I was seeking from them was validation I wanted from my, my family. And then once I didn't need that, the customer's validation anymore, that's when my mom paid attention and she saw someone she wanted to be. And that was really, really good for me. A lot of us keep awful clients because that was our role as a kid. The peacekeeper. The pleaser, the accommodator, right? It's almost like you feel like you deserve, right? I don't know if your family did that at all. A lot of people's family told them they didn't. They, they didn't feel like they could have that autonomy. And not to get too far down that rabbit hole, but if you guys have had any physical violations, and then it's very hard for people that have had been through that kind of trauma to say no. Or on the flip side, they're very sensitive and say no to everything.
This episode focuses on the kiddos, and the village of providers, specialists, family and friends that are needed to not only help them find success, but that work hard to ensure that these children are thriving. From identifying this population, to understanding the red flags, to asking more specific questions, Dr. Hall covers a lot of ground. Listen and get caught up with what is happening in pediatrics and cochlear implants. Stay up to date with us on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram @MedAudPro. Joining the MedAudPro Provider Community is a great way to support our show, get free access to behind the password content and interact with other providers looking to practice at the top of their game. Subscribe today at bit.ly/JoinMedAudPro This episode is sponsored by Envoy Medical.
Check out my latest podcast interview How to Comeback After a Setback with Melissa Hall of the Hall Insurance Group. Melissa Hall is an author, entrepreneur, life insurance agent, & podcast host. She is the founder and the owner of the Hall Insurance Group. She shares with us her story and teaches us: How to Comeback after a Setback You will have to make a choice to sacrifice sleep, money, or social life while building a business. The changes that are good in the life insurance industry are technology and much more. Her story in the insurance industry began when she was a sophomore in college working at a local cable company. During that time her mother brought it to her attention that she needed to invest in a life insurance policy to pay off her student loans in case the unthinkable should happen. Also at the same time, her grandmother had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, and suddenly insurance became a hot topic within their family. Coincidentally, she was offered an agent position at a national insurance company (whom she still partners with today) that could cover her grandmother, she instantly accepted the opportunity and immediately quit her job. That allowed her to embark on a successful career initially helping only the senior population. Contact info: https://coveredbymel.com/ Website: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheHallInsuranceGroup/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehallinsurancegroup/ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvgjEhgwJIfXOhPRUMlEVTw 120 Preston Executive Dr. STE 201 Cary, NC 27513 Contact Phone: (919) 944-4515 Email: Hello@Coveredbymel.com --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/troy-holt/support
The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy
Now Modern Therapists Need to Document Every F*cking Thing in Our Progress Notes?!? Curt and Katie discuss a recent citation from the California Board of Behavioral Sciences (BBS) to a therapist for cursing while in session. We explore: How do we document ruptures during the therapy session? Is the BBS over-reaching by controlling what therapists document? What are the best practices for note taking? All of this and more in the episode. In this podcast episode we talk about appropriate documentation practices for modern therapists As therapists it's important that we take accurate notes. But what is important to include in the notes, and how much should we really be documenting? Wait – Is it alright to use curse words in session? Therapists should be first and foremost aware of the client and their potential reaction. Note the therapeutic relationship with the client, their history, and how the client empowers themself when making language selections. If considering using casual language, consider the client's vernacular. Follow the client's lead when it comes to their language in session, including cursing. The BBS has no specific statute related to cursing or swearing. “If things aren't written down, they did still happen – but now it's open to interpretation.” - Curt Widhalm What should modern therapists document in clinical notes? It is important to document any bold interventions or ruptures in the therapeutic relationship and repair attempts for ruptures. In note taking, it is important to follow the clinical loop: assessment, diagnosis, treatment plan, intervention, use of intervention, and the client's reaction and progress. Your notes will be a balance of covering your liability and creating notes that help you remember the session. Therapists should consider documenting the use of any language that could be deemed not clinically appropriate, even positive statements like “I'm proud of you,” or “Yes, my dear.” “I think any rupture in the treatment relationship is worthy to document because it's potentially clinically rich, but also a point of liability.” – Katie Vernoy Does the California Board of Behavioral Sciences (BBS) outline what we should say in our notes? In the 300-page PDF outlining the statutes for LPCCs, LMFTs, LCSWs, and Educational Psychologists, notes are only mentioned 10 times. There is no mention in the statutes of what can be said and what can't be said in notes. Some agencies and institutions will stress writing very little to ensure protection from liability, but as this citation showcases, this might not be best practice. The BBS wants to ensure the protection of clients and you might need to justify your words, just as you would justify the use of an intervention. This is a reminder that the BBS can and do look at therapist's notes. Our Generous Sponsor for this episode of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide: Dr. Tequilla Hill The practice of psychotherapy is unique, creative, and multifaceted. However, combining a more demanding schedule and handling our own pandemic related stresses can give rise to experiencing compassion, fatigue, and the dreaded burnout. Unfortunately, many therapists struggle silently with prioritizing their own wellness across their professional journey. If you are tired of going in and out of the burnout cycle and you desire to optimize your wellness, Dr. Tequilla Hill a mindful entrepreneur, yoga, and somatic meditation teacher has curated How to Stay Well While You Work Therapist Wellness Guide to support providers that are struggling to manage your own self-care. Subscribe to Dr. Hill's Stay Well While You Work! Therapist Wellness Guide and you can find many of the inspiring offerings from Dr. Hill's 17 years as a practice leader, supervisor, mentor, human systems consultant and wellness enthusiast. Support The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide on Patreon! If you love our content and would like to bring the conversations deeper, please support us on our Patreon. For as little as $2 per month we're able to bring you more content, exclusive offerings, and more opportunities to engage in our growing modern therapist community. These contributions help us to expand our offerings for continuing education events and a whole lot more. If you don't think you can make a monthly contribution – no worries – we also have a buy me a coffee profile for one-time donations support us at whatever level you can today it really helps us out. You can find us at patreon.com/mtsgpodcast or buymeacoffee.com/moderntherapist. Thanks everyone. Resources for Modern Therapists mentioned in this Podcast Episode: We've pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below may be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Statutes and Regulations Relating to the Practices of Professional Clinical Counseling, Marriage and Family Therapy, Educational Psychology, and Clinical Social Work The Case for Cursing Client's Experiences and Perceptions of the Therapist's use of Swear Words and the Resulting Impact on the Therapeutic Alliance in the Context of the Therapeutic Relationship by HollyAnne Giffin Swearing as a Response to Pain: Assessing Hypoalgesic Effects of Novel “Swear” Words by Richard Stephens and Olly Robertson Relevant Episodes of MTSG Podcast: Do Therapists Curse in Session? Make Your Paperwork Meaningful: An Interview with Dr. Maelisa McCaffrey Hall of QA Prep Noteworthy Documentation: An Interview with Dr. Ben Caldwell, PsyD, LMFT CAMFT Ethics Code Updates Bad Business Practices Who we are: Curt Widhalm, LMFT Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University and CSUN, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: www.curtwidhalm.com Katie Vernoy, LMFT Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. Katie is also a former President of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: www.katievernoy.com A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We're working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren't trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don't want to, but hey. Stay in Touch with Curt, Katie, and the whole Therapy Reimagined #TherapyMovement: Patreon Buy Me A Coffee Podcast Homepage Therapy Reimagined Homepage Facebook Twitter Instagram YouTube Consultation services with Curt Widhalm or Katie Vernoy: The Fifty-Minute Hour Connect with the Modern Therapist Community: Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Modern Therapist's Survival Guide Creative Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/ Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/ Transcript for this episode of the Modern Therapist's Survival Guide podcast (Autogenerated): Curt Widhalm 00:00 This episode of The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide is brought to you by Dr. Tequilla Hill. Katie Vernoy 00:05 The practice of psychotherapy is unique, creative and multifaceted. However, combining a more demanding schedule and handling our own pandemic related stresses can give rise to experiencing compassion fatigue, and the dreaded burnout. Unfortunately, many therapists struggle silently with prioritizing their own wellness across their professional journey. Curt Widhalm 00:26 Dr. Tequilla Hill with mindful entrepreneur, yoga and somatic meditation teacher has curated how to stay well while you work therapist wellness guide to support providers that are struggling to manage your own self care. Stay tuned at the end of the episode to learn more. Katie Vernoy 00:41 Hey everyone, before we get started with the episode Curt and I wanted to make sure you were aware that we have opportunities for you to support us for as little as $2 a month. Curt Widhalm 00:50 Whether you want to make that monthly contribution at patreon.com/MTSGpodcast or a one time donation over at buymeacoffee.com/moderntherapist. Every donation helps us out and continues to help us bring great content to you. Listen at the end of the episode for more information. Announcer 01:12 You're listening to The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide where therapists live, breathe and practice as human beings to support you as a whole person and a therapist. Here are your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy. Curt Widhalm 01:30 Welcome back modern therapists. This is The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide. I'm Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy. And this is the podcast for therapists about all of the things that therapists should worry about. And this is part two of an episode that we started last week about a citation from the California Board of Behavioral Sciences to a therapist about using a curse word in session. And if you haven't listened to last week's episodes, we talked a little bit about, we talked a lot about using curse words and sessions. And today, we're gonna focus on a different part of the citation. In the citation, it talks about the therapist not documenting about their decision to use a curse word, how it fits within the treatment, what the client's response to it was, and this being a part of why the therapist was being investigated and wanting to do a dive into: what are we actually supposed to put in our notes? We've had a couple of episodes in the past. So one with Dr. Melissa Hall and one with Dr. Ben Caldwell about what you need to put in your notes. We'll link to those in our show notes over at MTSGpodcast.com. We're not talking about SOAP Notes or structure, that kind of stuff. Today we're talking about legitimately, what do you need to put in your notes? And what is this signal by the California BBS really mean for the rest of us here? So, Katie, what needs to go in our notes? Katie Vernoy 03:11 Well, I think just for folks that want a quick primer, because I when they can go over to both of those episodes and get stuff I'll say something and kind of lead into the rest of this. The documentation for services should follow the clinical loop. Dr. Melissa McCaffrey Hall is someone who talked about it really well and meaningful documentation. But you start with an assessment that leads to a diagnosis that then has a treatment plan, that then on a weekly or a session by session basis, you talk about the interventions that you're putting forward to help the client to meet their treatment goals that's on the treatment plan. And that's a clinical loop, you know, diagnosis, treatment plan, session notes - comes back, and hopefully you're addressing the diagnosis. In this situation. Again, we talked about the cursing before, it seems like there is a discussion around were all of the interventions put into the note. And I don't know if we have to include all interventions. I think there's a lot of mirroring and reflection and active listening and all of those things. But I think potentially you can put some of those things in the notes, but I don't think every single micro intervention needs to go in notes. But I think big interventions probably do, especially ones that are truly impactful to our clients, as well as the responses to those interventions and an even like group notes or SOAP Notes or any of the notes. There is an idea, pretty established, that we must put down the interventions that we're using and the client response. Curt Widhalm 04:55 So in the very nature of this you're bringing up intervention is there are planned interventions, and then there are also the ones that just kind of slip out. And I think it's important for us to read from this citation. So that way, our audience here has the same knowledge of what's going on here. So I'm going to quote, I'm going to quote from the citation. And once again, we're not releasing the name of the therapists themselves, due to respecting their privacy on this, but I think that this is a key indicator of looking at how our licensing boards are enforcing stuff Yeah, and, and potentially looking at their their overreach here. So jumping into the middle of this, we talked in last week's episode about the therapists use of a curse words towards a minor in session, and quoting from the citation, regarding the record keeping a portion of your notes which you had handwritten are illegible. Additionally, your notes failed to identify which minor you had confronted during the session. Furthermore, your notes do not document either your decision to use a curse word as part of your description of the minor clients behavior. What's your rationale was for doing so what the minor client's response was to your description of his behavior, or that you would apologized to the minor client regarding the wording you had to use to describe his behavior. End quote. Katie Vernoy 06:25 I think that there are pieces of that that are fair. And I feel like there's still information that we don't know to identify at the word that you used as overreach. I think that the level of policing around our documentation seems surprising to me. But I don't know if I particularly disagree with any of their statements. It sounds like you do, though. Curt Widhalm 06:49 My reaction on this is, if this is in fact used as an intervention within the the treatment session, which by all accounts seems to be what this therapist and the therapist attorney justified that no other ways of reaching this client really made any sort of emphasis. That doing something big and bold in session in order to try and get through a client does seem to be a maybe very on the spot decision as an intervention to kind of disrupt and shake things up a little bit. That maybe not planned as a intervention strategy. You know, I think last week, you and I both admitted that, yeah, we use curse words in sessions from time to time. I don't think that any of my treatment plans will ever include session seven, use curse word with this client to disrupt what is the therapy in order to help them gain a new perspective. But I think it is something where, with intentional interventions, and that that clinical feedback loops that you were talking about, yeah, we do need to include in our notes, intervention use client reaction. And I think that that's the language that the Board of Behavioral Sciences is using here, that is kind of a catch all for this. Where maybe there's a little bit more nuance in here is in some of the off the cuff interventions that we do, or things that are human relations, sort of impacts that we have on other people that we might not consider in the traditional sense of interventions that it gets into kind of a fuzzy space of are we leaning towards the the cya of covering our asses of needing to transcribe the entirety of our sessions just to prove what has happened? That's kind of where my initial reading of this is. Do we have to document everything that is said, and moving into even some of the direct quotations that we use in session with more frequency? Katie Vernoy 09:06 That may be what the BBS is describing? I think, for me, I don't take that in in that way. I think in this situation, it is hard to know if this is something that is coming from a parent that is is upset at the therapist or the therapist decision making. I'm not sure if this is a truly harmful therapist who is saying really inappropriate things in session, or some other thing, right. Like I can't speak to this particular situation. And I certainly don't feel like we need to do transcription of our sessions and quotations of our own stuff. So that's, that's my caveat. If I was in a session, and I said something to a client, they said that hurt my feelings, and we talked about it and I apologized and there was a repair or there wasn't a repair, I would document that I think any rupture in the treatment relationship is worthy to document because it's potentially very clinically rich, but it also is a point of liability. And so to me, it feels like if I recognize that a client is upset by an intervention or specific words that I use, I would document that. Curt Widhalm 10:24 And I think that this is the difficulty in looking at information like this because it gets much more complicated with the more people who are in the room. Having worked on legislative language before and worked on trying to define things before and creating language for statutes that is broad enough that it speaks to what we do in our profession. A lot of times, we just borrow language from where it's already written. And one of the things, especially for couples and family therapy is that there hasn't really been a good definition of how in statute, it looks different than working with individuals. You know, we have 100 plus years of psychologists language to, you know, work with individual people. But sure, the theories around marriage and family therapy, we can borrow some of the language that statutes should suggest that those go in there. But for really being conscious of the steps that we're making towards putting this information into our documentation. What I'm hearing you say is that if you're really calling out one member in this citation saying the same thing, if you're really holding one member accountable, you need to be specific to that up to an including emphatic language. Is that what you're saying here? Katie Vernoy 12:01 Well, I think you're, we're talking and I feel like we're talking into different areas. I think, in this situation, we have someone who clearly was overwhelmed, or at least that's what we've assumed, has illegible notes, and there's not specifics in it. So to me, the flavor I'm getting is that if this person if this therapist would have put in their notes, something along the lines of confronted X member of the family or use disruption by confronting X member and had some bold language and discuss the use of that language, and provided a repair within the session, without saying, I cursed at this kid, the family got upset, and I whatever, but like actually using clinical language to describe what happened, the confrontation, the disruption within the family system, as well as repair and planning for the future. To me, I don't know that we would, that this would have been part of the citation. We're assuming because they said you did not you say you used a curse word and your rationale for using the curse word that we're like, oh, we have to transcribe. I don't know that. I don't know that. I agree with that. And I do share your concern that should this become statute? Yeah. I don't think we need to transcribe our sessions, or put forward really dramatic tales in our progress notes, so that we cover everything. But I think it's, it's a jump in this situation to say, Oh, well, they wanted this. It sounds like they were appalled at what they found. And they put language to how they put it forward. I honestly have no idea. And I don't fault this therapist at all. I can't make a judgment on that. But if we're looking at the notes were illegible and incomplete. Everything was missing. Right? Curt Widhalm 13:55 Well, the eligibility, part of it, I think, is a curious piece. And I think you and I have both heard from clinicians. And I haven't heard this as much in the last 10 years. And yeah, I do want to give you credit for being the one who brings up this point, before we started recording today. So but you and I both heard for most of our careers, about therapists who've taken the approach of well, if it's illegible, then people have to ask me what was meant there. And that's another way of protecting me in my practice. And this is a very clear indication that that is not true. Katie Vernoy 14:35 Not true at all. We need to type stuff into an electronic health record. That's pretty clear at this point. Curt Widhalm 14:43 I think it's really important to be able to have clear notes, do them well. And I think getting into the nuance of just like how descriptive do we need to be in the response to that But I take your point, as far as you know, what may need to be, as far as you know, use this disruption. Is it, you know, needing to put in more and more exact quotes? Is it, you know, just in the more confrontive ones? Or is it also going to be in any sort of situation where a different perspective is going to need that nuance reflected in the notes as well? Katie Vernoy 15:27 What do you mean by that? Curt Widhalm 15:28 So, you know, there's the clients that therapists use curse words to disrupt them. Yeah. There's also the other end of the spectrum where therapists may use more affectionate language to help to emphasize a point to that maybe seen as a boundary crossing of, you know, expressing some affection in a way that has some context sway, you know, hey, I really care for you. And I really want to see you be successful in this, do we need to then document that same nuance in that direction? Katie Vernoy 16:06 From the description that you're providing there, I think the answer is the therapist, it depends. To me, when I express something that I think that therapists typically don't, you know, I tell my clients, I'm proud of them, I tell them, I care that care about them, or I care about what's going on with them, or whatever it is, I do show genuine human connection. I think that with one client, it may be completely documenting it out, not necessarily for the cya purposes, but for reminding myself what I'm doing. And, and and having that as part of the clinical record, because I think it's important. For other clients, if I slip up and say, hey, yeah, you and me both buddy, or Yes, my dear, or have a wonderful weekend, my dear, or something where I slip into a phrase that I might use with friends versus with my clients. And it is a client who may have a response to that that would be not clinically appropriate, or their, their response is clinically appropriate, but it would not be conducive, and it would need to have a conversation about it. I may document, you know, used informal language of care, we'll address it the next session, you know, to close out the session, I will address that at the next session and talk about the conversation of like, Hey, I was pretty casual at the end, I feel connected to you. But I wanted to make sure that we talk about our relationship. Like I think if there's a clinical reason, that or a personality reason why the client may take in something in a way that it was not intended or feel that it may be harmful. Yeah, I'm gonna document what I said and how I addressed it. And so I think it's, it's something where, depending on your relationship with the client, that context and what context may be needed, should a complaint or a concern or a clinical conversation comes down the pipe, and you need to remember kind of what was going on there? I think, yeah, I would document that for myself. Curt Widhalm 18:06 As many of our listeners know, I sit on the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists ethics committee, and not speaking for them, but a discussion that has come up at one of our meetings with one of the staff attorneys who also is on the ethics committee, talking about the way that opposing counsels would approach therapists and depositions specifically around their notes. And hearing you say, you know, use informal language of affection. I'm thinking of the way that that could be interpreted by somebody who's looking at your notes, who's not involved, and the kinds of questions that would come up. But what do you mean, why, why didn't you write with that exact language is? That, you know, this could be anything. My client remembered this as being something completely different than what you're saying now, that may lends towards needing to go even a step further than what you're talking about here. Katie Vernoy 19:10 Sure. And I think that's part of the 'it depends,' I think, if it's a client that potentially is going to have that as a complaint, yeah, I'd write the exact phrase. Curt Widhalm 19:19 How do you make a decision that about which clients are likely to make complaints versus those that are not? Katie Vernoy 19:25 I think that's a good point. I think there are times when it comes from past history of whether it's kind of being litigious or other things. I think, for me, it's more my feeling in the moment, you know, and so this is more intuitive or instinctive. Do I need to be more descriptive in my notes or not, is a client that I, I think, may want to see their notes may or may have other things that they're doing with these notes, or if they would be potentially more confrontational or litigious, but you're right, I don't I don't think that there's a great way to make that assessment and maybe the the informal words have affection is not a good phrase to use. To me, I think it's something where if there is a concern that comes up in session that you feel like you want to document, you have to decide do you document it with euphemisms, clinical language? Or do you quote yourself? I don't know. I think there's, there's arguments both ways. Curt Widhalm 20:21 Yeah, as you're talking, I'm thinking about the number of times that we may start down a path with clients that clients just kind of give indication that it's not the appropriate way of of going. That, you know, we may bring up an idea of, let's say, for, I don't know, working with anxiety or something where, you know, you might ask a question of, like, you know, have you ever, you know, considered doing this and the clients like, No, I'm not going to do that. Do you document every single one of those like, rejections that clients do? And in your notes? Katie Vernoy 20:59 The 'No, I'm not gonna do this.' I think that's different than I tried it. And I felt like it was harmful. I think that was a bad idea. Why did you tell me to do that? I mean, there's different flavors to it. I think if it's a conversation of like, okay, what kind of coping strategies are you going to use? Or what kind of interventions feel right to you? To me, that's, that can be a higher level documentation. But if somebody says, "Hey, I was thinking about this thing all week, I didn't do it, because I think it's wrong. And this is, this is the thing, the mismatch I'm feeling in this relationship right now." Yeah, I would document that. Curt Widhalm 21:34 Because I think that there is a way that as you point out, my practice being more with kids, that there's probably a lot more casual ways of bringing things up with kids and relating them, there might be even with some of the adult clients that I work with, you're making me think within this conversation of kind of the being able to describe in documents, why I might do things differently from case to case where a lot of these statutes are written for kind of the here's the standard for everybody. Yeah, I think if statutes had their way it would be everybody must do these things all the time here is very clearly what is okay. And very clearly what is not. Before the episode, Katie and I had looked at the California BBS's statutes and regulations relating to the practices of professional clinical counseling, marriage and family therapy, educational psychology, and clinical social work. This is a 300 page PDF that's available on the BBS website, we'll include a link to that in the show notes as well. Now through the magic of computers, we control F, and put in the words and put in the word notes, out over 300 pages in four different disciplines, notes came up 10 times in this document. Wow. And most of them were about the requirements of education, what needs to be in graduate programs, as far as areas to cover, students need to be taught how to take notes. And most of the remaining other ones where supervisors need to check the notes. So this clinical feedback loop piece of this is something that is left to just kind of the undefined standards of the profession. That seems to be what is being grasped at. And Katie had also made the recommendation of can you control F documentation in the same documents, and we ended up with about 70 hits, and most of them were, these are documents that need to be provided to the board for proof of your hours and this kind of stuff. So getting back to this citation. Yes, I can agree, handwritten illegible notes. Not gonna fly. Katie Vernoy 24:05 Not gonna fly. Curt Widhalm 24:07 The guidance in what the state has said as far as what needs to be in the notes. I'm, I'm still kind of wrestling with, did this therapist do something wrong in their documentation? If it comes down to needing to specifically look at what is the threshold of things that need to be documented? As I'm hearing you talk about it in this episode, you're saying it's kind of things outside of the norm, things that if we wouldn't do this with all of our clients, if there's something specific to an individual client, we should probably make note of that. So that way, anybody else who's reading it can understand our process of why this fits with this particular client or situation? Yes. Were you ever taught that? Katie Vernoy 25:05 Was I ever taught that? I think I was. I don't know that I was taught that as a clinician, when we were looking at this and how I was thinking about an even wrote this in my notes in preparation is when I was working as a child care worker, aka, a residence counselor in a group home, anything that happened that was out of the norm, especially if there was an injury, or some sort of horrible thing that happened to a kid, we did a serious incident report, or an SIR. And so for me, that was always the case that I would write stuff up, if it happened. And the the client, that kid was having some sort of reaction to it, or they got hurt, I would write that up, and just the facts and what happened and how you resolved it. And so for me, when I moved up the ranks in being a clinician, there's always that in the back of my mind that if something goes down, that is different, that is potentially harmful, and/or could be perceived as harmful, because it was a mismatch or whatever. Write that stuff down and make sure that you talk about your rationale, what happened and how the client responded and any repairs. So to me, I don't know that that was specific to clinical training, certainly, as I was working as a supervisor, the clinical loop was present. But there's also all these liability issues. And I think especially working with kids and families that are very chaotic, or there's a lot of factors that are making things very challenging for the family, I would encourage my clinicians to document those things because of how chaotic it was. So their supervisors would know so that the clinicians would remember what happened. I think there's all of those pieces that that made it so I'm potentially a little bit more conservative in my note writing, meaning that I write more than other folks may because I feel like there is a need to understand, remember, and cya. Curt Widhalm 27:11 From hearing from a lot of our listeners, past students, people who've consulted with me and other just general conversations. I think they your training might be more specific than what a lot of other people working in other agencies, maybe maybe not community mental health agencies, like I will group what you said in and assume that that is a largely kind of standard rule for a lot of community mental health. But for a lot of nonprofit agencies. I don't hear this kind of emphasis, I hear a lot more of the document as minimally as possible that this audience right here, listen to this. This citation is proof that that is bad direction from shows agencies that way, keep Katie is talking about is really covering your ass, not the agency's ass that this is the proof that boards can and do look at your notes. Yeah, they're going to find faults, if notes are not up to standards. And this goes back to your law and ethics professors of if things aren't written down, they did still happen. But now it's open to interpretation. Yeah. And yeah, your justification, days, months, years later is not necessarily going to be protection, because what is written in the note at the time, is what is going to be first and foremost evaluated. Katie Vernoy 28:50 And I think the the big difference from what you're talking about with other kind of nonprofit agencies and agencies that have Medicaid billing, is I was also taught that my my progress notes the clinical documentation that I put together is a bill. And so there needs to be sufficient intervention to justify the minutes that I'm billing for. So the reverse was actually what I was taught all the way coming up, is your notes need to be longer for longer sessions, and you need to have sufficient documentation to prove that your time was worth what we're billing for it. So the other piece and you brought this up before we begin was this kind of what do we remember? Yes. And I think when I am on top of my game, and I get my notes write down right away, I find that I have some details, some richness, and it does help me to remember from week to week, what's happened when I'm not on my game and I start getting behind on my notes. I struggle with that. And I think that folks who are chronically overwhelmed, and I'm going to include a lot of the folks in community mental health but even practices that are very full Do get behind on their notes. And then how do we do this detail? And you talked about another issue with, potentially when you write the note and what's in it. So let's move to that part because I think that's important too, before we close up. Curt Widhalm 30:14 Well, and I will forever credit Dr. Melissa McCaffrey Hall for this advice, that the number one reason that most people seem to be behind on their notes is that they don't end sessions on time. And this is phenomenal advice that I pass along to everybody, in that the reason that we do a 50 minute session or a 45 minute session is to leave yourself time to document this stuff correctly. Yeah. And I'm going back to talking about how attorneys might approach you in a deposition, they will ask you, when did you write this note? When? Why didn't you write it earlier? What do you remember the next day about anything? Like, can you remember what you had for lunch yesterday? And who served it to you? And what was the interaction process? And this is all showing proof of just how much your memory can and does have errors to it? And if that's the case, then you having errors in your notes from being written a day or a week or months later? Is very, not good practice. It is inviting liability. Katie Vernoy 31:35 Yes, I think and I've been on the right, the note right after session and write the note a little bit later. I'm not gonna get myself too much more liability than saying that. But I do think that writing your notes from a state of fear doesn't feel good, either. So going back to the citation to finish up because I know we're getting short on time. I can see why they said what they said I can imagine a situation where it's appropriate. If it becomes statute that every time we use a word that doesn't seem quote unquote, professional, IE see the session from last week. I worry if that's in statute, because I think there are different ways we speak with different clients, there are different things that we do. And so to me, I don't I don't want this to become a statute where we have to do these things. I do worry that this is some overreach. And I also feel like there are some things that we can do to protect ourselves which is sufficiently document what has happened, do it as close to finishing the session as you can and recognize that part of your documentation is your clinical reminder of what's going on, as well as cya if somebody comes looking at those notes later. Curt Widhalm 32:53 You can check out our show notes at MTSGpodcast.com. Follow our social media and take a moment and drop us a note your thoughts of what we're covering here, stories that you've heard, and anything else that you would like to have us cover and until next time, I'm Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy. Katie Vernoy 33:15 Thanks again to our sponsor, Dr. Tequilla Hill. Curt Widhalm 33:18 Therapists, if you are tired of going in and out of the burnout cycle and you desire to optimize your wellness, Dr. Tequilla Hill has created and curated a wellness guide specifically with deep compassion for the dynamic personhood of the psychotherapist. Subscribe to Dr. Hills offerings at bit.ly/StayWellGuide that's bit.ly/StayWellGuide and you can find many of the inspiring offerings from Dr. Hill 17 years as a practice leader, supervisor, mentor, human systems consultant and wellness enthusiast. Katie Vernoy 33:56 Once again, subscribed to Dr. Tequilla Hill's how to stay well while you work therapist wellness guide at bit.ly/StayWellGuide. Curt Widhalm 34:06 Hey everyone Curt and Katie here. If you love our content and would like to bring conversations deeper, please support us on our Patreon. For as little as $2 per month we're able to bring you more content, exclusive offerings and more opportunities to engage in our growing modern therapist community. These contributions help us to expand our offerings for continuing education events and a whole lot more. Katie Vernoy 34:29 If you don't think you can make a monthly contribution no worries we also have a buy me a coffee profile for one time donations support us at whatever level you can today it really helps us out. You can find us at patreon.com/MTSGpodcast or buymeacoffee.com/moderntherapist. Thanks everyone. Announcer 34:50 Thank you for listening to the modern therapist Survival Guide. Learn more about who we are and what we do at MTSGpodcast.com. You can also join us on Facebook and Twitter and please don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss any of our episodes.
This week we're joined by our lawyer, Melissa Hall, to talk about wills, cohabitation, power of attorney, and more. Melissa has her own law firm where she helps her clientele navigate life's ups and downs. She is committed to being as generalist as a form of specialization and to using access to legal resources to help people who would otherwise be at a disadvantage. If this show is helpful to you, consider joining our amazing community of like-minded listeners at patreon.com/Multiamory. You can also get access to ad-free episodes, group video discussions, bonus episodes, and more! Order a sexy gift box from our sponsor, Like a Kitten, and get 20% off with our code MULTI at LikeAKitten.com/multi Multiamory was created by Dedeker Winston, Jase Lindgren, and Emily Matlack.Our theme music is Forms I Know I Did by Josh and Anand.Please send us your feedback and questions to info@multiamory.com, find us on Instagram @Multiamory_Podcast, tweet at us @Multiamory, check out our Facebook Page, visit our website Multiamory.com. We are a proud member of the Pleasure Podcasts network.
Chris Hughes and Melissa Hall join Kelly Sechrist to discuss the Ranked Choice Voting Resource Center's recently launched research project: RCV Maps. These state assessments provide users a starting point for understanding what will be needed for any state, county, or city to implement RCV. Resources mentioned in this episode: https://www.rcvresources.org/state-assessments https://www.rcvresources.org/rcv-maps-understanding-rcv-implementation
The Modern Therapist's Survival Guide with Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy
Episode 226: How to Fire Your Clients (Ethically) Part 1.5 Curt and Katie chat about different therapist-client mismatches and how to manage them. We explore how to balance dealing with discomfort in therapy and seeking consultation with knowing when and how to refer out clients. We also talk about how to incorporate ideas of redefining and decolonizing therapy. It's time to reimagine therapy and what it means to be a therapist. To support you as a whole person and a therapist, your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy talk about how to approach the role of therapist in the modern age. In this episode we talk about: How to manage situations when the client having a clinical need that the therapist does not feel capable to treat. Different kinds of therapist-client mismatches. Cultural considerations in therapist-client matching and incorporating ideas of redefining and decolonizing therapy. How to refer out clients when there is a mismatch and what to do if the client doesn't want to be referred out. What to do when you have different ideologies than your clients. The benefit of sitting with discomfort when you disagree with your client and knowing when to seek consultation. How to support clients when they aren't aware that a different therapeutic style (e.g., direct vs. indirect) may be beneficial to them. The importance of reviewing treatment plans with client (even when not required). Revisiting how to address therapy interfering behaviors and how to appropriately terminate with clients when necessary. Barriers in referring clients out. Our Generous Sponsors: SimplePractice Running a private practice is rewarding, but it can also be demanding. SimplePractice changes that. This practice management solution helps you focus on what's most important—your clients—by simplifying the business side of private practice like billing, scheduling, and even marketing. More than 100,000 professionals use SimplePractice —the leading EHR platform for private practitioners everywhere – to power telehealth sessions, schedule appointments, file insurance claims, communicate with clients, and so much more—all on one HIPAA-compliant platform. Get your first 2 months of SimplePractice for the price of one when you sign up for an account today. This exclusive offer is valid for new customers only. Go to simplepractice.com/therapyreimagined to learn more. *Please note that Therapy Reimagined is a paid affiliate of SimplePractice and will receive a little bit of money in our pockets if you sign up using the above link. RevKey RevKey specializes in working with mental health professionals like you to increase not only clicks to your website, but helps you find your ideal patients. From simple startup packages and one time consultations to full Digital Marketing Management Services, RevKey can help you run successful digital marketing ads. RevKey creates customized packages and digital marketing budget recommendations that fit your business needs. You'll never receive a data dump report that means nothing to you. Instead, RevKey provides clear concise communication about how your digital marketing ads are performing through meetings for video updates recorded just for you. RevKey is offering $150 off any setup fees for Modern Therapist Survival Guide listeners. You can find more at RevKey.com and make sure to mention that you're a Modern Therapist Survival Guide listener. Resources mentioned: We've pulled together resources mentioned in this episode and put together some handy-dandy links. Please note that some of the links below might be affiliate links, so if you purchase after clicking below, we may get a little bit of cash in our pockets. We thank you in advance! Relevant Episodes: How to Fire Your Clients (Ethically) Make Your Paperwork Meaningful Therapy is a Political Act The Balance Between Boundaries and Humanity Is Therapy an Opiate of the Masses? Ending Therapy Connect with us! Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapists Group Get Notified About Therapy Reimagined 2021 Our consultation services: The Fifty-Minute Hour Who we are: Curt Widhalm is in private practice in the Los Angeles area. He is the cofounder of the Therapy Reimagined conference, former CFO of the California Association of Marriage and Family Therapists, an Adjunct Professor at Pepperdine University, a former Subject Matter Expert for the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, and a loving husband and father. He is 1/2 great person, 1/2 provocateur, and 1/2 geek, in that order. He dabbles in the dark art of making "dad jokes" and usually has a half-empty cup of coffee somewhere nearby. Learn more at: www.curtwidhalm.com Katie Vernoy is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, coach, and consultant supporting leaders, visionaries, executives, and helping professionals to create sustainable careers. Katie, with Curt, has developed workshops and a conference, Therapy Reimagined, to support therapists navigating through the modern challenges of this profession. In her spare time, Katie is secretly siphoning off Curt's youthful energy, so that she can take over the world. Learn more at: www.katievernoy.com A Quick Note: Our opinions are our own. We are only speaking for ourselves – except when we speak for each other, or over each other. We're working on it. Our guests are also only speaking for themselves and have their own opinions. We aren't trying to take their voice, and no one speaks for us either. Mostly because they don't want to, but hey. Stay in Touch: www.mtsgpodcast.com www.therapyreimagined.com Our Facebook Group – The Modern Therapist's Group https://www.facebook.com/therapyreimagined/ https://twitter.com/therapymovement https://www.instagram.com/therapyreimagined/ Credits: Voice Over by DW McCann https://www.facebook.com/McCannDW/ Music by Crystal Grooms Mangano http://www.crystalmangano.com/ Full Transcript (autogenerated): Curt Widhalm 00:00 This episode is sponsored by SimplePractice. Katie Vernoy 00:02 Running a private practice is rewarding, but it can also be demanding SimplePractice changes that this practice management solution helps you focus on what's most important your clients by simplifying the business side of private practice like billing, scheduling, and even marketing. Curt Widhalm 00:18 Stick around for a special offer at the end of this episode. Katie Vernoy 00:23 This podcast is also sponsored by RevKey. Curt Widhalm 00:26 RevKey is a Google Ads digital ads management and consulting firm that works primarily with therapists digital advertising is all they do, and they know their stuff. When you work with RevKey they help the right patients find you ensuring a higher return on your investment in digital advertising. RevKey offers flexible month to month plans and never locks customers into long term contracts. Katie Vernoy 00:49 Listen at the end of the episode for more information on RevKey. Announcer 00:53 You're listening to the Modern Therapist Survival Guide where therapists live, breathe and practice as human beings to support you as a whole person and a therapist. Here are your hosts, Curt Widhalm and Katie Vernoy. Curt Widhalm 01:08 Welcome back modern therapists This is the Modern Therapist Survival Guide. I'm Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy. And this is the podcast where we talk about all things therapists and picking up on last week's episode responding to user reviews, we felt the food getting a little more nuanced and a couple of things. But this review sparked a couple of ideas, check out last week's episode about therapy interfering behaviors. We also wanted to dive into a little bit more of the firing clients maybe terminating prematurely before clients end up getting to their goals, we might want to call this episode firing your clients ethically, Part 1.5. Like it's cuz this does help us dive into a little bit more of some situations where this comes up. We'll talk about this from a clinical approach. We'll talk about this as far as broadly, some of the ways that I've heard ethics committees talk about bad therapy when clients have felt abandoned by therapists, this kind of stuff. So Katie, and I wanted to talk about what are some times where we've heard therapists, quote, unquote, firing their clients looking to terminate prematurely referring out, etc. So Katie, what is first on our list today, Katie Vernoy 02:37 the most frequent one that I've seen that I've experienced is this idea of a client having a clinical need that either pops up or was on assessed, you know, wasn't appropriately assessed at the beginning, that I don't feel capable to handle. And I see this a lot, where folks will say, well, this person has psychosis or they have an eating disorder, or they have substance abuse, or they have something and I'm not an expert in it. And so I am going to refer them out. And there have been times when I've chosen to refer out and there have been times when I have kept the clients and, and created a treatment team around myself so that there was expertise present. But I see that a lot. I think people get very worried, and sometimes with good reason that if they keep a client for whom they don't have the appropriate clinical expertise, that they will be hurting the client. And so they then terminate the client, which can mean that the client feels abandoned because they have, especially if they've already developed a relationship with you, or if they had difficulty finding a therapist in the first place. And there's not great referrals. So I think that's potentially where we start is when a therapist feels like this is not my expertise. But they've already shown up in your office, either for one session or for 10 sessions. And this is a new clinical issue that pops Curt Widhalm 03:57 So Katie and I, before recording today, we were talking about a couple of different areas where this has come up in our careers. And part of managing some of these particular situations is having honest discussions with clients. This might be something where it's a lot easier when it's in those first couple of sessions of, Hey, we don't have a real strong therapeutic relationship. But I don't have the skills to be able to help with the goals that you're coming in here with and especially if there may be more high risk or specialized sort of treatments you brought up about eating disorders before the show was recording here. These get a little bit trickier when you're much deeper into relationships with clubs. And for instance, eating disorders that show up in clients after a couple of years of treatment where you have a very strong relationship with a client and it might be outside of your wheelhouse. I've had a couple of clients that I've worked with for a very long time that have eventually started exploring transgender identities and things that are not necessarily within the specifics of my specialties. But feeling the confidence in a therapeutic relationship and knowing what it's like working with me over the long term to begin to explore some of these new identities. And I think, in the way that Katie and I have talked about this is a lot of times, it's not necessarily firing those clients, but it's helping to be able to develop a treatment team of specialists around who's working with those clients to be able to help the clients reach their goals, while also still having the emotional space and the trust in the relationship that they know that they're going to be taken care of. Katie Vernoy 05:57 For me, I see it as a very attachment based style of therapy that I do, because I think I do longer term therapy, it's very relationship based. And so if I can't be the expert in the room with my clients, I act as a trusted person in their life who's going to figure it out. And I'm going to get the right people around them. And I'm going to advocate for them. Some of this comes from my history of doing more on the kind of social work and of pulling together treatment teams and resources and advocating for my clients. But there are a number of times throughout my career where something has come into my client's life, we have a very strong relationship, and I start doing research, I start gathering people around them. And the work that I do may be impacted by that there may be things that I bring in that is relevant to that particular treatment issue. But it may also be just me talking with them about like, how's it going with a specialist? How are you taking care of yourself? What do I need to know to support you during this time? You know, it's it's something where it has to be within the relationship because a brand new client having to tell you what they need, doesn't feel appropriate, but a client that's been with you for years and has this new issue that they're facing, I think it would be pretty bad. If you were to say, Okay, I'm out, because I don't know about this. So you're on your own, because people are not just these new treatment issues are not just diagnoses. Curt Widhalm 07:27 And what you're describing There is also getting your own consultation and learning and developing some new skill sets alongside of that, it's not always going to be possible to out of the blue be able to develop a new best practices sort of treatment for these kinds of clients. And that's where handling these difficulties. I think we've discussed this in enough episodes before and just kind of a general enough knowledge within the community that we can move on to our next thing on the list here. Katie Vernoy 07:59 So one more, I think clients often opt out. But I think sometimes for especially those therapist pleasing clients therapist might have to do it is a therapist like relationship mismatch, that there's something in the relationship that just seems to be getting in the way of the treatment being successful. Curt Widhalm 08:20 And so sometimes this can be personality wise, this can be things where the agreement on what the treatment plan is, isn't the same. It might be things that a client is particularly hoping can be addressed in therapy that the therapist doesn't or won't work on. And maybe to give an idea of something like this is if a black client is showing up to therapy with issues of depression and wants to talk about some of the systemic causes, especially in the news here in the last couple of years and issues related to that as being part of the causes towards the particular depressive symptoms of this client. With the therapist only wanting to focus on things like medication adherence and behavioral activation techniques that don't necessarily take into account what the client is asking for in those therapeutic sessions. This has the potential of being in one of those areas where clients asking for something a therapist isn't providing. As it's described, this isn't really bad therapy. It's technically sound by using evidence based practices here. But I'd be hesitant to call this good therapy by any means because the client is expressing a desire to be exploring something with the therapist is completely sidestepping. Katie Vernoy 09:51 I think when we look at it that way, this is where folks come talking about redefining therapy or decolonizing therapy. I think there are arguments, that's pretty bad therapy, when a client clearly is bringing in things that they would like to address, and the therapist is refusing to talk about them, and not seeking any insight from the client on their methods of healing. And so we'll link to a couple episodes in the show notes that kind of talk more specifically about how you can talk more about those types of issues if those that's what your clients seeking out, but yes, I don't think it's unethical or illegal therapy. But Curt Widhalm 10:28 I do. And that's, that's the wording that that I should use here is that not that particular example. But some of the ethics committee discussions that I see from time to time fall into categories like this, where a client is asking for something very, very specific that the therapist is not addressing, that doesn't go against an ethics code, it doesn't go against a legal statute that falls under this category of just a really bad client therapist match. And I agree that with redefining therapy, reimagining therapy, that decolonizing therapy, by those definitions, that is bad therapy. Yeah. For me, legal and ethical standpoint, there are no legal or ethical codes that define it as such. And so sometimes we'll see client complaints about this that, you know, from a decolonizing, or a reimagining standpoint, would find frustration with that therapist not being investigated not being seen as a, somebody contributing to bad therapy, it's because the rules of law, the rules of ethics don't have anything to investigate those against and therefore there's no punishment to be given, if there's no rule against it. Katie Vernoy 12:01 My hope is that if someone had that type of a complaint, rather than putting up a huge defensive structure, that they would actually look at what that mismatch was, because to me, I feel like there are clients who need that seeing that being known to be able to make any progress in therapy. And I think sometimes those clients will opt out and recognize that this therapist is not seeing me not potentially even doing some micro aggressions or macro aggressions like it could be something where the mismatches big and I think, bordering on unethical, although I don't know that I have a code. So I won't I won't go that far. But I think that the problem is that some clients, especially clients who have been, who have identities that have been traditionally marginalized, I think they may not know that anyone would be any different. And so my hope is that if a therapist is getting any kind of feedback, or having that push back, that they would make that referral to someone who could have those conversations, I just don't feel convinced that that's going to be the case, I feel like that could be a missed, you know, kind of blank spot in their education and their self awareness. Curt Widhalm 13:14 At best, it's in that missed blank spot. You know, there are therapists that we have to admit that are out there who will actively go against and argue against that. And those cases, would be very bad therapy. And this is looking at some of those situations too. And this falls across ideological spectrums, here. But when you get into imposing values onto clients, for not believing in whatever it is that you believe, that is bad therapy, especially to the clients perspective, now, I think we're way off of where this episode's focus is supposed to be, as far as when those situations come up from the therapist side of things, you know, give you the credit as a listener here, that you're not imposing your values on the clients here, but when those clients do bring up opposite ideas of how you practice, the show here, we're big advocates of putting your values out there of kinds of work that you do so that way clients can self select in, but sometimes you're gonna end up with clients who don't match up with those things, stances on vaccine mandates, mascot mandates, these kinds of things that a lot of people are gonna have a lot of different ideas about, that this might be a mismatch. It's not something that can necessarily be ignored, but it's not necessarily something that's the place of therapeutic focus. Or is it? Katie Vernoy 14:49 I mean, I think it's client by client and therapist by therapist, I think the to get us back into how to ethically fire your clients part 1.5 or whatever. We're going to call I think the assessment of is this ideological difference, this mismatch sufficient that you believe you cannot do effective therapy with this client, and then referring them out appropriately, I think is important, but I chose so Curt Widhalm 15:14 in your mind, how does that referral work? Like, Hey, I think you're an idiot for this thing that doesn't have anything to do with you coming in, like, how do you see those referral conversations going? Katie Vernoy 15:30 I am not referring someone out because they have an ideological difference. But if they're wanting to talk about things that I have absolutely no experience about, you know, or I don't have a space to you know, I don't feel comfortable in that space. And it's not something that I want to subject them to, as I find my footing, I might say, Hey, I'm noticing that these are the types of things that you're wanting to talk about. And it's outside my my area of expertise. So I want to connect you with somebody for whom that is an area of expertise. And Curt Widhalm 16:01 if that client says, Now I like you enough, we can we can teach you Katie Vernoy 16:06 taking that question. I mean, that is that that is harder, because I don't want to abandon my client. I don't want to be in a place where I'm allowing my own, you know, ideological things to get in the way. But if it's truly an ideological difference, whether it's about political ideology, or something along the lines of vaccinations or different things, you know, the things that I may have a strong opinion about, but my clients either have a strong other opinion, or I think the one most recently, it's been kind of vaccine hesitation, I most of my clients are vaccinated, some are not. And for me, I think what I end up doing is I follow the lead of the client, and I work to identify where their mind is, and try to understand them. And that doesn't require an ideological knowledge. Just trying to understand their perspective and look at it doesn't require an ideological knowledge. And I try to determine, do I need to know more about this in order to work with them? Or is is it central? Or is it not central? Curt Widhalm 17:10 So for those clients that continue to bring things up, because occasionally I'll get clients on the US ideological stance that are just kind of my rights to not get vaccinated? clients? They will, I don't know, get emotionally momentum going in a direction that even an exploring where you're going here, that they'll start to maybe rope you in with like, you know what I'm talking about, right? Don't you agree that people's rights are important? That, you know, are these half sort of things? Do you step in at those times, knowing that you're sitting there being like, I don't agree with literally anything that you're saying right Katie Vernoy 17:54 now. I think what I've done at different points, sometimes I'll go to psychoeducation. And say, I'm hearing you and I hear that you're saying this, one thing that I'm reading is is this. And so sometimes I'll go to a Hey, let me just add a little bit little tidbit not say like, Oh, well, I think you're totally wrong, but go to like a tidbit of, you know, I actually did that or, or even say, Well, I don't know, I actually, you know, that's not something that I've been looking into, could you share with me some of the things that you're reading, because then I get a better experience of what rabbit holes are going down? Curt Widhalm 18:33 I'm not, I'm not giving those YouTube links that get sent to me, you know, these 30 minutes, here's where all of the vaccines things are wrong. I'm not clicking on those. Katie Vernoy 18:45 But I think they're they're there. There's knowledge that potentially you can gain about where someone's head's at, when you actually ask them, how they got there, and not looking at trying to switch it. But I think there are times when just understanding and listening and then providing a little bit of information kind of from outside their information bubble can have an impact. But sometimes it just becomes very clear that there's not common ground. How about for you? How do you manage it when clients are having these gigantic conversations with lots of emotion about things that you think are absolutely wrong? Curt Widhalm 19:23 I do a lot of reflecting back even when there's direct questions back to me. What does this mean for you? How is this impacting your day to day life? What can you do with this it's very narrative approach in a lot of ways, and I have had some successes where clients are like, Thank you for listening to me, maybe you can help me get some perspective on some other ways of looking at this that is just kind of this being able to validate the process rather than the content of what's discussed. And I'm afraid that a lot of therapists would get sucked into the content part of these arguments and feel Like this is something that I can't help you with. And therefore, I need to go back to what we mentioned earlier in the episode and refer out to somebody who can validate the content of what you're talking about here. Like we mentioned in last week's episode, this is being able to have a really good idea of what your limits are, what kind of impact that the clients are having on you being able to sit with it. And that's, that's a part that, especially developing therapists I see struggle with a lot because this pulls up a lot of that imposter syndrome stuff is just because you're having anxious or bad feelings of what a client is saying, separate from our other fire of clients ethically episode doesn't mean that you're not necessarily providing good therapy in those situations. Just because we want therapy to be easy and us to heal everyone doesn't mean that we're not going to run into some uncomfortable situations with clients. I was sharing with one of my other Professor friends here recently about some of the role plays that I bring into the especially like practicum classes when people haven't started seeing clients yet, just like getting them prepared for stuff. And of course, I'm going to pick situations that make the therapist kind of uncomfortable, and it's surprising how few of these I've ever had to make up completely to kind of put, you know, developing therapists on the spot. And when I was sharing some of these with my professor friends, they were like, what kind of a practice do you have? These are pretty like everyday sort of things. These aren't even like the egregious ones. I say all that to say that sitting through a lot of stuff that makes us uncomfortable, can have a very deep impact for clients that we might feel mismatched with. But it comes back to attuning yourself to the relationship. Now, at that point, and again to the thing from this episode that we seem to have veered really far off from is when we get to those points, and it's still not working out? Is it time for a premature therapeutic sort of termination? Can I help a client in that situation? Yes. Can everybody okay, I would like to think everybody has the capability to know. But if you feel that it is interfering with yourself so much before you get to the point of referring out clients for you feel that the mismatch is so great, ethically, what you're going to want to do is have some really in depth consultations, that some clinical supervision from some people that are not going to just be part of a Facebook group that you're only able to explain, you know, in a few sentences, what's going on. And the chorus of commenters is going to, you know, give you seven or eight words as far as what you should do, but pay for a good consultation around how to manage it, and document that consultation. Not in the client chart, though, not in the client chart, but protect yourself in your process notes that you've explored the ways that this impact could be happening with the client. So that way, it's not just a rash decision, that this is part of the extra workout side of the session that makes you as a better therapist that can lead to trying to provide space for a client to grow. If the results of that consultation are Yeah, you should probably refer this person out, you've got some better community understanding and thought process that goes into it. But if there's space for you to work on and address through some of these issues with clients, depending on whatever specific content it is, with whatever it is that they're bringing up. premature termination at that point, falls more into bad therapy than it does to providing a good space for them. Katie Vernoy 24:18 Making that assessment I think, can be tough, and I want to get to that. But I want to talk about one more mismatch that I think is actually not as interesting as what we've been talking about. But I think it is an important one to put in there. And then maybe we can talk about how to make the assessment because I think making the assessment and then having really good consultation, I think can be very important. But the other mismatch really is style or personality. You know, whether you're a directive therapist, a non directive, therapist, those types of things, I think that those, they actually make a big difference. And I've had clients where they've been able to give me the feedback and I can shift and be less more or less directive. But I think there's some of us that are just more or less directive. Again, oftentimes when clients are empowered, they opt out themselves. So you're not doing this premature termination. But I think it is important to talk about it just a little bit. Curt Widhalm 25:12 Absolutely. And as somebody who does far more to the directive side of things, I tend to advertise to my community, the people who come to work with me, they know that I tend to be more directive more honest in the way that I put myself out there, then maybe some of their other therapeutic experiences, clients who want that, and the values that we put forward here, our work is put your values out there, let clients self select into this kind of stuff. Katie Vernoy 25:45 But sometimes clients don't know they operate in because they think it's a good match. But then you can see them either pushing back against you being directive or shutting down. And I think I think the assessment becomes the clinicians responsibility if the client isn't understanding that that's what the problem is. Curt Widhalm 26:06 And so those directive therapists out there in this situation would likely have very little problem directing that conversation to that particular problem. Katie Vernoy 26:15 The opposite, though, I've seen where the non directive therapists kind of stay in therapy with some of these clients forever, and maybe this is you and I bias because we're both more directive. But I've had clients that didn't realize that they wanted more than they were getting, and I think non directive therapy can be hugely beneficial for some folks. Absolutely. But for for clients that want more, if they don't know that that's the case, how do we recommend that non directive therapists try to figure that out? Curt Widhalm 26:45 I'm gonna be totally biased towards the directive end of things. It's creating the space for that discussion, and really saying, personality wise, that's just not who I am. I can't provide what you're looking for in this situation. That is a really good conversation to have with people, because it's either going to lead into Yeah, but I still like you, as the therapist. Yeah. But what you're asking for is not something that I can really do or be like, you're asking a tiger to change it stripes like, yeah, at that point, it's being able to then have a proper termination, even if it's incomplete towards therapy goals in order to help those clients get matched with somebody who is going to be able to provide what they want. Katie Vernoy 27:38 I think the knowledge that's required for that conversation, maybe some that either the clients asking for more, the therapist is recognizing that the style isn't matching up. I think sometimes that's not evident. I think people typically can kind of flow together. And if the style is a mismatch, sometimes that's not identified. But I think what can be identifiable? is lack of progress on treatment goals, or stagnation on treatment goals, or the Hey, how are you doing very little going on in the therapy session, that I think therapists, as a matter, of course, should assess progress on treatment goals, and be able to identify that there are a few different things and they want to assess if therapy doesn't seem to be moving forward. Curt Widhalm 28:23 And some of the ways that you can manage that is making sure that you go back and revisit your treatment plan with your clients every so often. And I know that that's a, I was gonna say, a lot more popular in DMH work, but I don't know that popular is the right word that Katie Vernoy 28:39 consistent usually requires. Wire. Yeah, that's probably best. Curt Widhalm 28:46 But for independent practice, doctors, practitioners who aren't, you know, as adherent to those kinds of contracts or rules that require you to go back to those treatment plans, do it anyway. So that way, these kinds of things can emerge sooner and have conversations with your clients about, hey, we're not making any progress towards this goal. What's going on with this? That does allow for the are we doing things right? Is this something that you would get this better out of treatment with somebody else that makes it more of a joint decision, rather than just the therapist being the all knowing or all scared of having to have that conversation with a client, that honest relationship, there's typically really helpful. Katie Vernoy 29:41 And when you were talking about that, I was remembering a conversation we had really early on in the podcast with Dr. Melissa Hall. I think it's making your documentation meaningful or meaningful documentation, something like that. But she actually really talks about the clinical loop and how making that a regular part of your process helps you close And I play but it also opens this conversation for folks who aren't quite sure what's not working. Because I think when you're documenting and paying attention, I think that can be very helpful. So we've talked about a lot of different things, I think there's, you know, we could go more into a client not making clinical progress as a reason to potentially prematurely terminate. Curt Widhalm 30:22 I do want to bring up though that man, sometimes building off of last week's conversation around some of these therapy interfering behaviors, there may be times when even examining it through that lens, when you've consistently had these conversations with clients that you've sought the outside consultation, you've documented that the clients continue to break more egregious boundaries, but maybe not to the threatening level of the ones that were discussed in our first episode on firing clients ethically. And these are things where it might be breaking boundaries outside of sessions showing up to your office and hanging out way too long disrupting behaviors in the waiting room that you know, maybe couples who start their arguments in the waiting room that are interfering, the session that you're having and stuff like that, yeah, where those types of behaviors are things that are impacting other people in your practice, that weren't really straightforward boundary conversations that if they continue to happen, are things that you continue to bring them up if those conversations that were used suggested last week in the podcast about how this impacts things, and there is a an active refusal to follow those are acknowledge that those are even problematic behaviors that are impacting you, and especially other clients, that can be a cause that you should very much document quite well, as far as you're welcome to services, not in this way. And if these are things that are coming up, here are appropriate referrals that, you know, we've talked about in termination episodes before being able to provide, these are behaviors that you're demonstrating pair impacting me, we have tried to work on them, they are continuing to impact me in a way where I can no longer serve you. I have sought out consultation, I am working on this. And it is agreed that I am going to cause you more harm. Because of the feelings that are developing, then I can benefit you from this point. That is inappropriate referral. And that is inappropriate termination. They're Katie Vernoy 32:49 the things that come to mind for me, if I don't have the capacity, and that could be strong clinical expertise. But it also could be time I had a client that I had to refer out because they needed more than I had time to take care of Sure. If they if the relationship is not one, that there would be an element of abandonment, the feeling of abandonment, abandonment is different than the abandonment of just saying today was your last session, audios. The treatment Alliance and we talked about this a lot in both of these episodes. But if the treatment Alliance is strong, there may be things that could be overcome that in other situations, it would be recommended to refer out. But I come back to something that I think is going to be very rampant right now, especially for certain types of specialties and certain types of things is the availability of more suitable resources. And so maybe as our last point, because we are getting pretty long here. But as our last point talking about, I've made the assessment, I've done the consultation, I've had the conversation with the client, I am unable to keep the client ethically, legally, logistically, whatever it is, and I'm having a hard time finding suitable resources to refer them to. At that point, some people keep clients. And I think that there are pros and cons there. But what is our responsibility? If there are just no therapists that are capable of helping this client? Curt Widhalm 34:26 I think with the accessibility of telehealth now that this is much less of a problem than it has historically been that with providers in every jurisdiction now able to provide telehealth easily that this is going to be where, especially in the private practice end of things, those referrals are more easily found. Hired, indeed higher severity clients, those being sought out through things like DMH you're going to have agency policies that you're going to have to follow in those situations but To give maybe an anticlimactic answer, I don't think that this is as big of a problem here in 2021, as it has historically been described, there, lots of referrals out there, there are clients and therapists who can match across distances now. And that's, you know, one of the things that being more digitally accessible helps to alleviate some of these issues when it does come to providing care for these kinds of clients. Katie Vernoy 35:30 So basically, the answer was, I'm not going to answer you, okay, because it's not that big of a problem. Curt Widhalm 35:37 Pretty much. Katie Vernoy 35:39 So I'm going to actually just put us put my spin on it, because I do think it actually is still a problem. But I think the problem is not more, is there any available resource? It's, is there an acceptable resource to the client? Because oftentimes, it does mean having a therapist who is telehealth and they want to be in person or someone who is not maybe as close of a personality fit but has a specialty and doesn't take their insurance. I mean, there there are some issues here. And I think it's something where, and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, in good faith, providing as many as close good enough referrals to this client as you can and trying to do what you can to do some linkage is sufficient. Yeah. Okay. Curt Widhalm 36:28 You should let us know what you think of this episodes, especially in our Facebook group, the modern therapist, group or on any of our social media. You can also leave us a rating and review and we'll include our show notes over at MTSGpodcast.com. Also, there is still like, hours left for you to be able to get your virtual therapy, reimagined 2021 tickets. We are going entirely virtual again this year, we had hoped to have some people come out and join us in Los Angeles, but enter in the meme of my fall plans and delta variant. Yes, but there's still time you can get those tickets over at therapy reimagined conference calm. And until next time, I'm Curt Widhalm with Katie Vernoy. SimplePractice is the leading private practice management platform for private practitioners everywhere. More than 100,000 professionals use SimplePractice to power telehealth sessions schedule appointments, file insurance claims market, their practice and so much more. All on one HIPAA compliant platform. Katie Vernoy 37:37 Get your first two months of SimplePractice for the price of one when you sign up for an account today. This is collusive offer is valid for new customers only. Please note that we are a paid affiliate for a SimplePractice so we'll have a little bit of money in our pocket. If you sign up at this link. Simplepractice.com/therapy reimagined. And that's where you can learn more. Curt Widhalm 37:57 This episode is also sponsored by RevKey. Katie Vernoy 38:01 RevKey specializes in working with mental health professionals like you to increase not only clicks to your website, but helps you find your ideal patients. From simple startup packages and one time consultations to full Digital Marketing Management Services. RevKey can help you run successful digital marketing ads. RevKey creates customized packages and digital marketing budget recommendations that fit your business needs. Curt Widhalm 38:25 You'll never receive a data dump report that means nothing to you. Instead, red key provides clear concise communication about how your digital marketing ads are performing through meetings for video updates recorded just for you. RevKey is offering $150 off any setup fees for Modern Therapist Survival Guide listeners. Katie Vernoy 38:42 You can find more at RevKey.com and make sure to mention that you're a Modern Therapist Survival Guide listener Announcer 38:48 Thank you for listening to the Modern Therapist Survival Guide. Learn more about who we are and what we do at MTSGpodcast.com. You can also join us on Facebook and Twitter. And please don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss any of our episodes.
Melissa Hall shares what the word Spirt/Spiritual means to her. She shares a personal story of how she was led by the Spirit through it all. She urges you to live a life led by the spirit and allow Him to direct your paths.
I have a super special guest today that I'm pretty dang excited about. I'm joined by the one, the only Dr. Melissa Hall! That is right, my biz bestie is back! (At least for today!)The reason we wanted to do this episode together, besides it being more fun is that we're going to talk about an ADHD strategy for getting things done. And you know, both of us have ADHD. We specialize in ADHD. We love supporting our ADHD community.So if you're about to tune out because you don't have ADHD, do not worry. The strategy actually works for everyone and it can be really helpful, but it's particularly helpful for all of our neuro-diverse peeps out there. Today we are doing a deep dive on body doubling. Body Doubling is one of those things that sounds so simple but it is a really great strategy. It may have been something that you are already doing and not even aware of it. I actually just kind of intuitively did this without knowing that I was doing this well before I understood, or even before I knew I had ADHD or that this strategy is actually a thing. We're going to talk about different ways to utilize the strategy and kind of our experience of things that do work and don't work so well.We go into what is Body Doubling, how to structure it, what can make it not as effective and why we think you should give it a shot. (It's research based ya'll).If you want to try it out with a pro, head on over to amberhawey.com/innercircle to learn all about the Inner Circle where we cowork EVERY month.Dr. Maelisa Hall is a licensed psychologist, nail design enthusiast, and multi-passionate entrepreneur. Through her business QA Prep, she empowers therapists through trainings and consultation on clinical documentation. Maelisa focuses on the “why” behind the usual recommendations and encourages clinicians to think outside the box, while also keeping their ethics intact. A true ENFP, Maelisa aims to make sure all of her endeavors are meeting a need in the community while also allowing for plenty of laughter and fun.Website/Business Links: QA Prep https://www.qaprep.com/ Social Media Links: Instagram @maelisahall https://www.instagram.com/maelisahall/ LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/maelisa-hall-psy-d-28923177 QA Prep YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCytXRIFI17MtbmTh5QTJhsg Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share!Here's How »Join The My Biz Bestie Community today:My Biz Bestie FacebookLet's Connect on Instagram
Today candidate for City Attorney Nicole Thomas-Kennedy joins Crystal to discuss why she has chosen to throw her hat in to the ring against one of our city's longest serving elected officials, what it truly means to be an abolitionist now, how solving poverty and homelessness will do more to alleviate crime than harsher punishments, and how Nicole's experience as a public defender would inform her views as City Attorney. As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Find the host, Crystal Fincher on Twitter at @finchfrii and find today's guest, Nicole Thomas-Kennedy, at @ntkallday. More info is available at officialhacksandwonks.com. Resources “Abolitionist Nicole Thomas-Kenney Announces Last-Minute Run for City Attorney” by Mark Van Streefkerk: https://southseattleemerald.com/2021/06/10/abolitionist-nicole-thomas-kennedy-announces-last-minute-run-for-city-attorney/ “Pete Holmes to seek fourth term as Seattle City Attorney” by David Kroman: https://crosscut.com/politics/2021/02/pete-holmes-seek-fourth-term-seattle-city-attorney “How Would Prison Abolition Actually Work?” by Gabriella Paiella: https://www.gq.com/story/what-is-prison-abolition “In Seattle, 1 in 5 people booked into jail are homeless” by David Kroman: https://crosscut.com/2019/02/seattle-1-5-people-booked-jail-are-homeless “Five Charts That Explain the Homelessness-Jail Cycle – and How to Break It” from the Urban Institute: https://www.urban.org/features/five-charts-explain-homelessness-jail-cycle-and-how-break-it “'I did the time': Lawmakers hear a description of the jail-drugs cycle from one who lived it. But are they listening?” by Danny Westneat: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/i-did-the-time-an-ex-con-describes-the-jail-drugs-cycle-but-are-lawmakers-listening/ “Opioid treatment in King County jails can reduce crime and suffering” by Dorothy Bullitt: https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/opioid-treatment-in-king-county-jails-can-reduce-crime-and-suffering/ “Mass Incarceration: The Whole Pie 2020” by Wendy Sawyer and Peter Wagner from the Prison Policy Initiative: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html “From homelessness to jail and back: King County tries to halt cycle” by Vianna Davila: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/homeless/from-homelessness-to-jail-and-back-king-county-tries-to-halt-cycle/ Learn more about the organizations mentioned on the podcast as advocating for alternatives to incarceration here: Community Passageways: https://www.communitypassageways.org/ Choose 180: https://choose180.org/ Transcript Crystal Fincher: [00:00:00] Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm your host, Crystal Fincher. On this show, we talk to political hacks and policy wonks to gather insight into local politics and policy through the lens of those doing the work and provide behind-the-scenes perspectives on politics in our state. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes. Well, today I'm thrilled to have with us, Nicole Thomas-Kennedy, who is challenging Pete Holmes in the race for City Attorney in the City of Seattle. Thanks for joining us here on Hacks & Wonks today. Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: [00:01:02] Thank you for having me. Crystal Fincher: [00:01:04] Well, I'm wondering first off, what in the world made you decide to run for City Attorney here in Seattle this year? Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: [00:01:13] So I realized a couple of days before the deadline to enter the race that Pete Holmes was running unopposed. And that just didn't sit right with me. I had spent over a year working in Seattle Municipal Court as a Public Defender on the other side of the City Attorney's office. And I saw what went on there - I saw all the types of cases that they filed and it really was disturbing to me. I mean I went into public defense thinking like, "Yeah, I know what I'm going to see," but it was actually so much worse than I anticipated. So when I found out he was running unopposed, I really felt like, "Somebody needs to do something. Won't someone do something? Someone should run!" And then someone on Twitter, Melissa Hall, laid out these reasons why people didn't want to run - like maybe you're a prosecutor and you work for him - you don't want to challenge your boss. If you're a defense attorney, that's - you're working on the other side all of the time, and we have to negotiate with those prosecutors all the time. So maybe you wouldn't want to do it if you're there. If you don't have any criminal experience, then why would you want the job at all? And I don't work in Muni Court anymore. So I was like, "Hmm, I don't have any of those restrictions." So I really didn't think that my campaign would get as much traction and interest as it has. And that's - it's been really surprising and I'm very excited and a little bit overwhelmed about it. Crystal Fincher: [00:02:52] It can be a little bit overwhelming, but I think your point - one, about Melissa Hall and her Twitter threads. She has a number of great Twitter threads. I'm on Twitter a lot as people, a number of the listeners know, but yes, I can totally see how that would kick off some thought processes. And then realizing someone should do something and then realizing that you're someone and you could do something. So as you looked at what you could actually impact as City Attorney and what would change - what in your mind, if you were to hold the office, would be different? Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: [00:03:26] So a prosecutor's job is to seek justice. That's their ethical duty, would be to seek justice. And so in thinking about what I consider to be justice - including reasonableness, fairness, things like that - I don't see that what they're currently doing has anything to do with justice. Right now it's really just prosecuting a lot of poor people - BIPOC and the disabled - a lot of disabled people in that court, and I just don't see the justice in that. And so the difference between what I would do and what Pete Holmes is doing is I wouldn't prosecute most of what's in there. I just wouldn't do it. I don't think that - when it comes to problems of disability and - or addiction, I really don't think that lawyers are in the best position to solve those problems. Those are public health problems. And so I just don't believe those cases need to be in court, especially when they're over really minor things - which Seattle Municipal Court only deals with misdemeanors. And so misdemeanors are punishable by up to 364 days in jail, so not more than a year. So all of these are low-level offenses - and all of these, on all of the people that are charged there, are going to get out of jail eventually. And so, if people are already struggling and then they have to go to jail, what's going to happen to them when they leave jail? If they were unsheltered, they lost all their belongings when they were jailed. If they were - and this happened to my clients sometimes - if they were sleeping in their cars, they would get their cars towed and then every worldly possession would be gone when they got out. The ones that were living paycheck to paycheck - they would lose jobs, sometimes homes. It had a really intense ripple effect on their families and their communities. And it really just made every single problem it claimed to address a lot, lot worse. And so I really don't see the justice in continuing to do that, especially when I think on the civil side of things, there are things that could be pursued that would lead us to more equity. I think that there's been a lawsuit against the fossil fuel corporations that has been sitting on the back burner for, I think, three or four years now - that I think could be pursued, would be a good use of that office. I think that wage theft is something that could be gone after a lot harder than it is. So right now I think that wage theft is dealt with by the City Attorney, by looking at it from a prosecutorial - from a criminal standard. And that's not going to fly for most things because - well, first of all, wage theft is probably priced out of Muni Court. It's probably at the felony level, would be my guess. But prosecuting isn't the only thing that can be done. The City Attorney can be going after companies that commit wage theft on behalf of the City of Seattle. That's something that could be done that could protect our workers. I think there's a lot more that could be done to protect tenants' rights, especially now that we have so many corporate landlords or corporate management companies. These are things that are actually leading into poverty and being unsheltered and desperation - and those are the things that drive crime. So why would we make people more impoverished, more desperate, lose shelter in the name of punishment or justice - and not pursue the people who take advantage of those people? So in my view, justice is going after the people that are causing the root problems and that have the ability to make changes. Because I think prosecuting someone for stealing a sandwich? I mean, it's a sandwich. There's nothing about prosecuting and jailing someone for stealing a sandwich that's going to make them less hungry. Everybody needs to survive. And we could be doing a lot more, I think, for the City - if we focus on large-scale change and root problems, rather than the guy stole grapes from 7-Eleven. Crystal Fincher: [00:08:02] Well, and I think a lot of people are feeling that right now - I think that what we've seen throughout - over the last year - with protests about the treatment of police, what we're choosing to criminalize, and how we're treating that. And conversations about, "Okay, let's actually think about public safety, not through a lens of policing. Or certainly not only through a lens of policing. And if everyone isn't feeling safe and truly isn't safe, what can we do differently to make that happen?" And then even conversations like we just got done in this past legislative session, following the Blake decision from the Supreme Court, which basically invalidated the law criminalizing simple possession of illegal substances, previously illegal substances - drugs - and having a thorough conversation about whether jailing people for just possessing a small amount of a drug, if it is being used recreationally, where that's usually always targeted to a very small segment of the population, usually disproportionately - BIPOC and poor - and not going after other segments of the population. And that if someone, as you said, actually does need treatment - jail doesn't help, but actually makes things worse. But we live in a society where there's this mythical belief and some "common knowledge" among people that, "Well, people need that criminal justice system as a motivator to get right. People need jail as a motivation to get right, and if there's not a penalty there, then there's going to be lawlessness. And so you're talking about letting all these people off the hook - you're going to empty these jails, there's going to be criminals roaming the streets, and we're just going to be super unsafe, and everything's going to be dangerous, and Seattle is going to continue to be dying and all of that." How do you address that? Where people right now are used to thinking of not just crime, but criminals, and that fear of "criminals" - and also recognizing that people are harmed. So how do you treat? How do you talk through, "Okay, not prosecuting this - this is how it actually doesn't make you less safe" - and a different approach to that. How do you explain that to people? Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: [00:10:37] So I think that - so I'm an abolitionist and I think that people, yes, have that idea that if I get elected - I'm just going to open the jails, everyone's going to get out, we're going to burn down the courts, and you know what I mean? Yes. And it'll turn into Escape from New York and just some sort of Hobbesian nightmare. And I mean - first I would say that the US has 4.5% of the world's population, but we have 23% of the world's prisoners. And for women, it's really even worse - we have, I think, like 1.2 or 1.5% of the population of adult women in this country, but 33% of the overall in-prison population of women - which is an intense thing. And actually - Crystal Fincher: [00:11:28] I did not know that. Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: [00:11:29] Yeah. It actually brought a tear to my eye the other night when I read it. But so - I think that if we look at that, like this is the tactic we've taken, right? The tactic that in this country has been like - punish harder - if it doesn't change your behavior, we just need to punish more and more and more and more. And if that worked, we'd be in the safest country in the world and we know that's not true. It's clearly not working. And when it comes to issues like addiction, in particular, I think people have an idea that there is even treatment available in jail - and it's not. I recall talking to a baby prosecutor, like a prosecutorial intern one time, and he said something about a client doing treatment in jail. And I was just like, "Wait, that's not a thing. There's no treatment in jail. It's just jail." And even he was shocked and he was working for the prosecutor's office - but there's no services like that in the jail. And so - well, okay - going back to your question. I think what I would say I would do is it would not be a one-size-fits-all approach, first of all. But especially when it came to addiction, I think that we should be focusing on harm reduction and having treatment available for people when they want it. Because I get that people think like, "You just need to punish harder and that'll make them straighten up." And I mean, they're fighting for their lives - they're in active addiction. You know what I mean? It's not a pleasant, good place to be. There's nothing - I really don't think that there's - they're already punishing themselves pretty heavily, you know? Crystal Fincher: [00:13:18] Yeah. Addiction is not a choice and it is not logical. You can't, once you're addicted, it's not like you're choosing to use and you can just choose to stop. It's a condition. It is not a choice. And so expecting logical decisions to result from that, which is like, "Well, they're going to be afraid of punishment and they don't want to get in trouble. Therefore they will make the logical conclusion that they will just not use." That's not how addiction works. Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: [00:13:42] Yeah, no. Not at all. Yeah. And I mean, I think that there is some recognition now that it's white people with opiates versus Black people with crack in the '80s. There is some recognition now that this is a public health crisis, and that's how it should be addressed. It should be addressed as a public health crisis. There's nothing - I just don't know what lawyers or judges have to do with that at all. It's just - I don't think it's our place. I'm not a behavioral health expert. I'm not a substance abuse counselor, I don't feel that I, or anyone who doesn't work intimately in those systems, knows what the best course of action is. But I do know that what we've been doing is not working. And so if - the question to me is - do we really want to solve this problem? And if we really want to solve this problem, then we're going to have to work with solutions to the problem. And jail is not one of them. And I know that there's this identification and list of prolific offenders by the Safer Seattle, Seattle's Dying people. What I find really striking about that is that you've identified a list of people who re-offend and who are in and out of jail and the court system all the time. And the solution to that that's proposed is more jail. When, to me, I'm like - if you have people cycling in and out like that, that's an indication that it is not working. Why would we keep doing that? And yeah. And this is, like I said, it's just misdemeanors. Everyone's going to get out of jail. So I think that we need to face these problems. We need to really, really face them. We need to stop pretending that they're going to go away if we just keep doing the thing that we know fails. We need to do something different. Crystal Fincher: [00:15:51] I think you raise a really good point in just talking about - people are going to be released from jail. And just that attitude of all right, well, "bad guys off the street" and everybody's safe for now and like they're locked up and everything is fine. Well and I think we can see that we've continued to lock more people up and "everything is fine" is not the state that we're in. But also looking at it as locking that up and not providing any services and not providing any treatment for addiction, any behavioral health interventions, any kind of restorative or rehabilitative or educational support to actually give someone the tools to be able to flourish more in life and not be a victim of the circumstances in their lives or be at risk for re-offense. Then we do have to work on actually solving the root problem. But in your role as a prosecutor, as a City Attorney, as someone who's going to be making prosecutorial decisions, sometimes it seems like - no, you're not going to be prosecuting many misdemeanors, but there still are some that are. And I think you've mentioned before you'd like to put more resources into victims' advocacy and helping people there. But that also implies that there are people there that do need help that's outside of the parameter of the courts. That they do need systemic community intervention and support. So if people are asking, "Yeah, that all sounds great, but man, that doesn't exist right now." So if you're made to be the City Attorney and we still haven't functionally and structurally changed our carceral system, we haven't added any services at the community level to help provide the things that give people the supports to not fall into poverty and be criminalized because of it - then what then happens? Are we just creating a bigger problem? Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: [00:18:15] I don't think so. Because first of all, I do see the criminal system as really feeding into and perpetuating the problem. If the problem is desperation, isolation, poverty, that's what we're doing to people in the system constantly. So I think stopping that harm, first and foremost, I think will do some good. I think on top of that, there are community groups that do this work. There's Community Passageways - I know they deal mostly with juveniles. There's Choose 180 - I think that they are opening up their program for older adults. But there's also- Crystal Fincher: [00:18:57] And they both do excellent work as organizations. Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: [00:18:58] Yeah. They do. And they're effective and they have longterm - they're playing the long game where it's like - we're going to improve someone's life overall, so the range of choices opens up for you and it doesn't seem like there was just this one thing. But also there are communities in Seattle that have been asking for things forever and have not been listened to. There's just so many meetings I've gone to where it's just like, "Well, I hear the community asking for this. So I think what we should do is get together a task force and blah, blah." No, no - just say no to task forces, you know? No, the communities here know what they need. They know what's going to help them. Let's empower communities to deal with these issues. They already have the plans in place. It's not as if there's nothing there. There's already a lot there. It's just - first, we have to stop the harm of putting people through the meat grinder first, but then also giving those community-based resources - give them resources so they can continue and enhance their work. Because a lot of it, yeah - it's not a one-size-fits-all approach. What works for some is not going to work with all. But I will say, I think that the abusive punishment is not really good for anyone - that doesn't seem to be working for anyone. But I do think that we can build up community resources to do that work. And again, we're just talking about misdemeanors. And so are we going to prosecute the guy who stole a soda or not? I think we're going to be okay if we don't prosecute that guy. I think we're going to be okay if we have some community intervention with that person as opposed to putting that person in jail. Crystal Fincher: [00:20:55] Well, and yeah, we are just talking about misdemeanors when it comes to the City Attorney in the City of Seattle. A lot of the scare tactics that people use to derail a conversation about doing things in a different way that is not automatic criminalization, especially if poverty, involves the boogeyman of, "Here's this scary, violent person that if we don't lock them up, then they're going to maim and hurt and just continue to be violent towards everyone in society." That's not what we're talking about. To your point, we're talking about people who are being, a lot of times, just criminalized for experiencing different elements of poverty. Like being insecure with food, not having a home and being criminalized because they're sleeping on a sidewalk and then being swept or forcibly removed. It's someone who previously has driven while their license was suspended. We're not talking about murderers here. We're talking about people who predominantly often are doing things that other people either can afford not to do, or that aren't being targeted when they do them. Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: [00:22:22] Exactly. Crystal Fincher: [00:22:22] There is a lot of selectiveness about this. So this is, seems like, the most appropriate venue to have the conversation about - what if we actually didn't automatically criminalize people? What if we did start to implement some of these new approaches that we're talking about heavily on the SPD side and really talking about in that conversation. But to my mind, the City Attorney's role in restructuring and reforming public safety and SPD and just the criminal system has been absent from that. What role can you play in that process and in transforming the way that things look from today? Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: [00:23:09] Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, first I think that showing that we can do things in a different way is going to be really important. And second, I don't really understand where our current City Attorney has sat on the sidelines for a lot of things - and not even made a statement about the sweeps, the unconstitutional sweeps, about all of the incredible brutality and lying we saw by SPD last year. The City Attorney is supposed be the attorney for the people of Seattle. It's an elected position. It's not just appointed by the mayor, you're the mayor's attorney. You're the attorney for the people of Seattle, and the people of Seattle have been brutalized and lied to and their belongings thrown away. And to sit on the sidelines and just say nothing and not explore any avenue for a correction, I think is really a disservice to this City altogether. And the City Attorney was sitting at the table when the current SPD contract was - that's who negotiated that contract. And so there's just a lot that's not in there, and there's a lot that's in there that shouldn't be in there. And so there's - I think as City Attorney - first, I think acknowledging the harm that the system causes - like really acknowledging it, not just a like, "Oh, it's broken, we should fix it." No, it's not broken - this is the way it was designed to work. It was designed to disappear and control BIPOC, the disabled, and the poor. And that's exactly what it's still doing after a century of reform. It hasn't changed and it's not going to. The system, it's not going to magically transform from its foundation. That's why I'm suggesting we need to dismantle it and build something better. And I hear that Build Back Better thing that Biden says - how are we going to Build Back Better by doing exactly the same thing? It doesn't make any sense. So I think taking on the role of City Attorney and considering it more as the people's attorney and not so much sideline sitting - like be out there, be a champion for the people of this City. And I think that's just something that I haven't seen in that - since 2009, since he became City Attorney. Crystal Fincher: [00:25:44] Well, I would say so. All right - so Nicole Thomas-Kennedy, the people's attorney, is what you're running as. So practically, you're running a campaign. Pete Holmes has been the incumbent since 2009. We've had a lot of change with a lot of different people in that time - several mayors, several police chiefs, but he still stays there. Hasn't had many serious challengers, if any serious challengers that have been in the race for the entire race, who've run against him. So looking at how to beat him - how do you become that? I think you initially said - okay, you hopped in, weren't necessarily expecting to be taken as seriously as you've been taken. But now that you're here, are you running to win? And if you are, how are you going to do it? Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: [00:26:43] I am absolutely 100% running to win. And the way I'm going to do that is by using all of the grassroots community support I've gotten for the ideas that this community has told us for years that it wants, and building on that to really explain a vision of Seattle that could be so much better than where we are. We could be safer, we could be healthier. We could just do things a lot different. We don't have to be stuck in this old way of doing things. And yeah, there has been a ton of change. There has been a lot of turnover, and yeah, I think Pete Holmes is the longest tenured official right now in the City. And he's saying that, "I'm all for police reform and I've done this and I've done that." And it's just like, man, I know that you tried to get rid of the consent decree last year - saying that it had worked. And then everything that happened last summer happened. And so whatever work that you think you did, or you think got done - it obviously didn't. I think Shaun Scott wrote a piece that I really liked about how - this is the best they can do. This is as far as SPD goes - their contract negotiations are happening next year - and these whole protests were livestreamed on multiple cameras from so many different angles. They've shown us who they are. They're not capable of this level of reform. So messing with these little incremental things, I think is just a complete smoke screen, really. I mean, it just makes the whole system operate. And why? For what reason? If it's not making us safer, if it's not making us happier or healthier, then why are we throwing money away on this? It just absurd. It's just really absurd to me. Crystal Fincher: [00:28:43] Well, it looks like a number of people may agree with you, because from what I've read from your consultant online - have you qualified for Democracy Vouchers already? Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: [00:28:53] Yeah. I qualified in nine days. Crystal Fincher: [00:28:56] Which is faster than City Attorney Pete Holmes, who got quite a sizable headstart on you and you zoomed right past him. Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: [00:29:04] Yeah. Yeah. I was pretty shocked. Well, I mean, I wasn't shocked because I don't know how long it takes to qualify, but, Riall said like, "Oh yeah. It usually takes like a month-and-a-half sometimes." And so it was pretty - it was very, very encouraging. There was - thousands of people marched in the street last summer asking for change and I would like to heed those calls. And I think that's what Seattle needs and that's what Seattle's been waiting for. And so while I didn't ever see myself being in this role, here I am. So I will definitely take it on and I'll take it all the way because this is what needs to happen. It can't keep going like this. It's ridiculous. More than half of the City budget is spent on public safety and yet people don't feel safe. And so I think that there's just things that we could be doing so much differently to bring the community together, and also to ameliorate some of the complaints and issues that people have. If people are uncomfortable living next to encampments because there's feces, or there's needles, or there's garbage - those are problems that can be addressed by the City. What can't be addressed by the City Attorney is a lack of affordable housing. We need to really work hard and really put some serious resources behind building affordable housing, getting rid of the apartment ban. And it needs to be a priority because no matter how many times parks get swept, people have to live somewhere. There's no alternative. There really isn't. And I really don't know why we would be penalizing people who have come together into a community in order to help provide for each other and help provide safety for each other. That's what people should be doing. And there's mutual aid workers in the encampments helping to feed people and make sure their needs are met. Why are we not helping those people? It doesn't make any sense to me. So whether - and I do think that there is some disconnect on - is this really a problem, or is this really a problem just because I saw it? Is the problem me witnessing your problem or is the problem the problem. And so for a lot of people, I think the problem is like, "I had to look at it." And to them - Okay, sorry. I mean, suffering happens. And so if you don't want to see it, then you need to advocate for something to be different and not just moved across the street. Crystal Fincher: [00:31:46] Well, I wholeheartedly agree - probably not surprising to people who have listened to this program before. But yeah, I mean, it just flat out doesn't work. We tried it and it failed. So are we going to keep doing something that hasn't worked? Are we going to keep thinking that jail, even though we've increasingly used that as a tool, or more policing, even though we've increasingly used that as a tool and we've thrown more money at that than we've thrown at anything else and gotten poor results - that it is time for something to change. And I think that you bring up the stakes and the contrast in this race and that with - Pete Holmes is certainly saying, "Sure, some things need reform. I will stop criminalizing this one thing over here or this other thing over there." And it sounds like you're saying, "We can play whack-a-mole with all of these offenses, but really it's manifesting - it's just a manifestation of poverty and neglect and disinvestment from long periods of time." And if we actually work on caring for people, especially after so much of the data that we've gotten through this pandemic - and the difference that cash assistance, support, health care, and the accessibility of it makes in the lives of people. Even just the change between congregate shelters for unhoused people to individual hotel rooms - giving them a foundation to actually address the issues that they have. If we focus on those root causes and this significant amount of money that's spent on not addressing those, actually diverting that to addressing those, I think we may have a shot. So I'm definitely interested in seeing how your race continues to unfold. And I really appreciate you taking the time to speak with us today. Thanks so much. Nicole Thomas-Kennedy: [00:33:41] Thank you. It was a pleasure. Crystal Fincher: [00:33:46] Thank you for listening to Hacks & Wonks. Our chief audio engineer at KVRU is Maurice Jones Jr. The producer of Hacks & Wonks is Lisl Stadler. You can find me on Twitter @finchfrii, spelled F-I-N-C-H-F-R-I-I. And now you can follow Hacks & Wonks on iTunes, Spotify or wherever else you get your podcasts. Just type in "Hacks & Wonks" into the search bar, be sure to subscribe to get our Friday almost-live shows and our midweek show delivered to your podcast feed. You can also get a full text transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced during the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the podcast episode notes. Thanks for tuning in. Talk to you next time.
Welcome back to a new episode of Mystic Podcast! In this episode, Daniela is joined by brand strategist, speaker, and educator Melissa Hall who works with fashion, lifestyle, and wellness companies. When Melissa was diagnosed with cancer she took a huge look at what she was putting in her body, on her body, and the environment that her body was in. She made some huge changes and learned who she is as a person. In this episode, Melissa talks about the importance of finding your foundation and to prioritise your health to have a sustainable business. Together, she and Daniela also have a conversation about branding: What is the story you want to tell with your brand, is branding ever-evolving, and what does the word branding really mean? In this episode Daniela and Melissa talk about: The changes Melissa did when she was diagnosed with cancer. Prioritising health for a thriving business. Everything you need to know about branding: what does branding really mean and what is the story you want to tell? How does Melissa work with both bigger companies as well as with smaller, independent brands? Where to find Melissa Hall: Melissa Hall is a brand strategist, speaker and educator that works with fashion, lifestyle, and wellness companies. She is the founder of Melissa Hall Consulting and The Emerging Designer, a network for designers and creative professionals. She has taught at the Fashion Institute of Technology (FIT) for the past decade helping fashion design entrepreneurs grow their business. In 2020, she launched The Branding Accelerator program and her latest venture, the Wellness + Work Project aims to help others balance their health and professional goals. She is also an advisor for MADE SAFE, a non profit that provides nontoxic certification for consumer goods. Instagram: @melissahallny Websites: melissahallconsulting.com The Branding Accelerator theemergingdesigner.com Book an Energetic Soul Reading (ESR): https://app.acuityscheduling.com/schedule.php?owner=16826123&appointmentType=11377651 Join Mystic Community @Mystic.Podcast Follow Daniela’s journey & Teachings @IAmDanielaArango
Dr. Melissa Hall received her Doctor of Audiology degree from the University of Florida in May 2010, and her Master of Arts degree in Communication Sciences and Disorders from the University of Central Florida in August 2006. Dr. Hall is dually certified and licensed as an audiologist and a speech-language pathologist. Dr. Hall works as a team member on the UF Health Cochlear Implant Program, and provides services such as cochlear implant evaluation, programming, and rehabilitation, while working closely with otolaryngology to provide a team approach to patient care. Dr. Hall is a board member of the American Cochlear Implant Alliance.
The Art Muskateers - Alicia and Melissa Hall are promoting art and creativity as a means of building resilience in children.
All Change: Industry Voices on Disrupting the Fashion System
The founders of Doyen New York are joined by Melissa Hall, founder of Melissa Hall Consulting and the Emerging Designer. Melissa is a brand strategist, speaker and educator that works with fashion, lifestyle and wellness brands. Today we discuss how the roadmap for emerging designers has changed, the power of brand storytelling and the humanization of fashion.
Author, photographer, and cultural documentarian Candacy Taylor's most recent project is Overground Railroad: The Green Book and the Roots of Black Travel in America (Abrams Books). In this interview with Melissa Hall, Taylor talks about the process of researching the Green Book, visiting the sites, and taking photographs. She also speaks to the way the work connected her with her stepfather, who had personal stories that enriched her study.
I am joined by Dr. Melissa Hall, DVM, Dip ACVD from Metropolitan Animal Specialty Hospital (Los Angeles, CA) to discuss pemphigus foliaceus. This is one of the more common cutaneous autoimmune diseases diagnosed in cats and dogs. It can be an incredibly rewarding disease to manage, but also a very frustrating one.Dr. Hall and I cover the clinical signs, how to successfully diagnose with cytology and biopsy, and treatment options for dogs and cats with pemphigus foliaceus. It is a fun conversation about a disease process you may see in your clinic!
Melissa Hall & Agne Zasinaite discuss data protection matters and subject access requests.
After working in advertising and transitioning to fashion – Melissa Hall became an accidental entrepreneur helping emerging designers. But a bigger vision awaited. A cancer diagnosis and a deep dive into her own lifestyle, ended up birthing her next mission - to bring wellness into the workplace. Melissa is changing the superficial industry of marketing with her unique approach. By rooting a brands effort in mindfulness – it cannot help but stay in its truth, while also doing it sustainably and justly. This approach will not only change the construct of an industry, but the construct of our society. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.
After working in advertising and transitioning to fashion – Melissa Hall became an accidental entrepreneur helping emerging designers. But a bigger vision awaited. A cancer diagnosis and a deep dive into her own lifestyle, ended up birthing her next mission - to bring wellness into the workplace. Melissa is changing the superficial industry of marketing with her unique approach. By rooting a brands effort in mindfulness – it cannot help but stay in its truth, while also doing it sustainably and justly. This approach will not only change the construct of an industry, but the construct of our society.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/bethechange-with-christine-dimmick. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Melissa Hall (@melissahallny) is brand strategist, speaker and educator. I met Melissa through our mutual love for ceremonial cacao and in this very timely conversation we talk about Melissa’s work and her experience being a black entrepreneur working in fashion, lifestyle, and wellness. We also explore the questions of privilege, non-performative allyship and creating long-term change. See all show notes on wokeandwired.com We cover: The future of branding Why wellness has to be the foundation of every future business How to elevate your brand in today’s digital world How the future of fashion includes mindfulness, sustainability and diversity Melissa’s journey from fashion into wellness Navigating wellness and fashion as a black woman Why she feels more liberated than ever to promote her services The energetics of investing into your business How do we make fashion and wellness more inclusive? Non-performative allyship Mentioned: 7 Important Questions Every Entrepreneur Should Ask Themselves 'This Is A Very Strange Time To Be A Black-Owned Business' by Trinity Mouzon on HuffPost The Heart Bowl Connect with Melissa: melissahallconsulting.com @melissahallny @eatwithmelissa Theemergingdesigner.com Connect with Woke & Wired: If you enjoyed the podcast, share it with a friend and on your Instagram stories (tag @wokeandwired so I can see it). Subscribe, rate and review the show on iTunes. Join the Woke & Wired Facebook group. Other episodes you might like: 65: Tanyka Renee – How To Create Iconic Content & Use Visualization To Grow On Instagram 19: Jasmine Takanikos: Making Brand Strategy Personal And Being The Energy Source Of Your Business 10: Blair Badenhop: How To Brand Yourself In The Wellness World, Create Magnetism and Success By Tapping Into Who You Truly Are Quotes: “Privilege can be a beautiful thing… when you act.”
Primary care law is a vintage (and all but forsaken) form of law practice under a new name that Melissa Hall has coined to convey her intent to the community she serves. Melissa's "cocktail party" law practice serves a niche community in Seattle. At its essence, she has transported a small town practice to the big city.In Episode 9 of Lawyerpreneur, we talk with Melissa Hall about what it means to have a primary care practice, gaining the trust of the queer community that she serves by being involved in the community, and how her unique payment structure gives clients the opportunity to leave her tips.Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/lawyerpreneur)
Dr. Hall is Associate Professor of Family and Human Services at JBU.
Special Guest: Mrs. Melissa Hall “Talk About it All with Mrs. Hall” Stay tuned to hear more from Melissa as a Regular Guest Personality. Be You Unapologetically
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Two – Amber Hawley – Finding Your Own Path With ADHD In this episode, I interview Amber Hawley of AmberHawley.com, The Couple Fix Podcast and the Biz Besties Podcast. We discuss how Amber has succeed in life using her ADHD diagnosis as her superpower. Amber is a wonderful, creative therapist and has found her own path using her ADHD to her advantage and learning strategies to minimize her weaknesses. You can read the transcript of the episode below. To connect with Amber, please go to AmberHawley.com or follow her on LinkedIn – Amber Hawley, Instagram @mybizbestie. Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Transcription of Episode Two Betsy 0:08 Welcome to the For All Abilities podcast. Thanks so much for listening today and today I have another special guest my friend, Amber Hawley. I am so excited you are here, Amber Amber 0:21 Me too. Thanks for having me. Betsy 0:23 Yes. So tell my audience a little bit about yourself, introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself. Amber 0:33 I'm a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, and I have ADHD. So I actually have a couple of different businesses which is very normal for ADHD people, I feel doing all the things and also to be self employed. That's a very common thing. So as a marriage therapist, my specialty Is our I work with couples. I've really transitioned into working with high achieving/ entrepreneurial couples. Because I also feel like I'm the ADHD whisperer, I love helping people that have ADHD and that go into business and the struggles that they face. All of that is my favorite thing to help people with. Betsy 1:25 I think that's really needed too. I know that the entrepreneurs I know, many of them have ADHD, or are people like me who are not really diagnosable as that and probably don't really have ADHD, but I have a lot of interests and can get easily distracted at times. So that's probably very helpful. And as we all know, it's hard to be married to somebody who's an entrepreneur. With or without ADHD. Amber 1:56 Exactly Betsy 1:58 Those two things are hard. Hard on marriages. I know you were diagnosed as an adult with ADHD. But why don't you tell us a little bit about your childhood? You probably had ADHD during your childhood even if it wasn't diagnosed. Tell us a little bit about what your childhood was like what it was like for you to be in school and in college? Amber 2:23 Yes. Well, you definitely look at issues as a lifelong thing. So whether you got diagnosed as a kid because I'll see people like no, I was as a kid, like, well, you still have it, it doesn't go away, right? Yeah, doesn't go away. As a therapist, I see this that it's very common for girls to not get diagnosed because of how it shows up. So typically, what we see in like our clinic is a lot of young boys are getting brought in because they're having problems at school, they're acting out. So even though I'm combined types. I have both the distractibility and the hyperactivity, which that part you kind of do grow out of, I kind of wish I still had that hyperactivity. I was just really active kid. Back in the 70s and 80s, like it was just kind of a different world. So it probably really suited ADHD kids in a way. Just always being outside running around. Betsy 3:26 I hadn't thought about that. But it did. It probably was easier. We all got more exercise. We were all outside playing all the time Amber 3:35 Exactly. I feel we need recess. We didn't have technology, you know. Technology is both a blessing and a curse. It's funny when I look back at my old report cards like I've one of those like, memorabilia things. The comment was always that I was talking too much. That's how that's how it usually will show up, especially in girls. It's that, “just can't stop talking” and, and you know, looking back now, after getting diagnosed, there were just a lot of things that I thought, gosh, you know, Why do I keep doing that? Like when you're kind of blurty and you're, you know, you're just talking, you have to say that thing. And then you're like, how did I say that? And you're like, Oh, well, now I kind of understand that impulsivity piece. But I think I was just a really active kid and I talked a lot. So that was always the thing. My thing in school that was a real struggle, which this is where I wish I had known because then I would have developed strategies for it. But I was terrible at doing homework. Like I, it became so painful, that, you know, like, it's a simple thing to do for most people, and I just couldn't do it, but I tested really well. So that was my saving grace. I could easily learn information. You know, just by listening and I would remember and I would do well, but I would always be marked down for not turning in homework or for it would take me so long to get stuff done like that Betsy 5:10 So would you procrastinate with it? Amber 5:12 Oh my gosh, just, it was the worst. Yes, I can remember even I want to say even as young as sixth grade that I would finally I would stay up all night. At 1am I would start doing my homework or start preparing the next day, like really young because it would get to the point that the pressure would have to be there for me to actually focus. So yeah, so I would, like I said, even as young as sixth grade and then it's funny my senior year of high school, they had this program where you could skip your senior year and get college credits so you could attend the local community college. The first quarter I signed up for this one class called perfectionism and procrastination. So there was a part of me that always knew! Yeah, it was like, What? Why? Why am I always doing this? The funny thing is I don't actually feel like I finished that class. I think I actually dropped it. Betsy 6:15 That's hilarious. And this is good. This is a this is great for those parents out there that are listening to the podcast, and are just like, so frustrated with their kids for not doing their homework, because, you know, it's a common issue, especially for kids with ADHD. That you did actually survive school and go on to become a professional. Children out there please just do your homework. Amber 6:49 And you know, it's funny when when I talk to parents, sometimes it's like, is this a battle worth having? There are natural consequences and obviously, you know, I believe that kids need to do their work, but there are times where it's like, okay, let's look at the bigger picture. So right, I still did have a very, I would say, non traditional trajectory. So I did that year. And then I kind of like here and there, I would try to like take classes and college, but it just again, I wasn't I don't think I was ready. I had a hard time focusing. So I ended up moving across the country, actually, because I grew up in Minnesota, and I moved out to California. And then I started getting jobs in the marketing world and then went into internet operations. And, and it was funny because this was before the .com bust. And, you know, you didn't have to have college. I mean, they wanted it, but they but really if you were I was somebody who could pick up that kind of stuff really easy like technology. Right? Right. So you just had to be able to, you know, if you're articulate, and you could learn things like I think there are other ways to do Well in the world, and so I actually ended up moving all the way up to like senior management and internet operations with no college degree whatsoever. This was by the age of like, 24. Anywhere Betsy 8:13 I guess my listeners don't know this, but you're very creative. You're a very creative thinker. And your ADHD is probably your that's probably powered by your ADHD. So I think Yeah, and I think I am. I'm a strong believer that not everybody has to go to college. There's so much out there that we can do I without a college degree, so I think sometimes it is, or you need to take several years off before you go, you need to mature or do some other things. So anyway, that's Yeah, that's so interesting. Amber 8:53 And I think unless you're the kind of kid who knew exactly like, this is exactly what I want to do, and it's a very clear path, right? Because I'd always like I'd always gone back and forth like I wanted, I looked at like psychology or like, law. And so it was always like a lawyer like psychologists. And then it's just like, okay, I just need to go do something else. And I went into the internet world the .com world. And then I kind of had what I call my existential crisis. And that's when I realized, like, I wanted to be doing something helping people. And I think, naturally, I always talked to people, people always told me their stories, like from a young age, you know, I'd be at a gas station and people would share their whole life story with me. Betsy 9:35 So that’s my undergraduate degree is in psychology and sociology with a minor in religion. I didn't know I mean, I thought I wanted to be a psychologist, actually, my plan was to go to, you know, get a PhD in psychology. And I decided not to do that. And the reason I decided not to do it is because I hear everyone's problems everywhere I go. I was like, I don't want to do that. For my work because when I go to the grocery store, I hear product people will tell me their whole life story and everything going on with them and everywhere I go. Amber 10:10 I got so funny, I make sense because you're a talker too. But my thing was, hey, this, I love this. I love connecting with people individually. I really didn't like the corporate world, I really struggled with it. And I started to feel like I would kind of jokingly be like, I hate people. I mean, I still sometimes say that. And it's not really what I mean, because I don't it's I love connecting with people individually. But sometimes when you're in those hierarchical structures, were it just it just felt it so it felt like, you know, like, you're below me and this, you know, therefore, everything I say is right. And a lot of people with ADHD do struggle with, you know, working for other people and I, I think I always had this stress, like I was always going to be fired, even though that made no sense really when I kept getting promoted and You know, I did really well, but because I did struggle, like I had a hard time, that's why I love the.com world, I had a really hard time getting up in the morning and being to a job by, like, even say 9am like it was, it's funny because I could go be somewhere at 5am if it's like a ridiculous hour, or I would need later in the day, so, so I realized, you know, so I would feel stressed all the time. So there were ways that it definitely showed up negative. But I think the positive ways were like, you know, the the ability to hyper focus, I think is what helps me learn things really quickly and be able to adapt and to grow. But so yeah, so then that eventually I said, Okay, I know I want to pursue the psychology thing. I really want to connect with people on a one on one and I want to help people because I you know, like I said, I my existential crisis. So then I went back to college at an older age, so I think Betsy 11:54 How old were you Amber 11:56 I think I went I went back at 27 Um, and then I, I did. I did right back to back. I did my bachelor's and my master's degree. And so Betsy 12:11 did you go full time? Or did they work? Amber 12:14 So I did try. Like I said, I tried here and there. I tried doing like a class or two at a time, and I had a really hard time splitting my focus like that. So what ended up happening is I made a plan. I was like, Okay, I'm going to continue to work and in January, I'm going to quit and go back to school. Well, when is it happening in August is everyone got laid off? This was during the like.com bust. You know, Betsy 12:40 so that was kind of convenient for you. Amber 12:43 It was a little earlier than I thought. Yeah, exactly. I was like, Oh, I wasn't really ready for that. But um, but yeah, so I you know, it ended up working out so then I just went to school full time, and then I you know, would do like part time jobs or whatever. But mostly my focus was school. Betsy 13:03 I think that, I think for a lot of Well, I mean everybody with ADHD is so different but I do think that that can be really hard for a lot of people with attention problems and to have to focus on two completely different things. You know, work in school I mean, to me work in school are so different. Yeah, your priorities are different for each your, your, your motivation is different. I think that can be really hard. And I think online classes too can be really hard. Yeah, I Amber 13:35 One of the most the hardest things were the online ones. I didn't like them because I really I like I can sit in a class and listen and learn so much. So for me, it was so easy to do that. And I think it was it because school is such a different kind, like I could work several jobs and be fine because you're showing up and you're doing work, but my school part would be the the the Mental load of the homework. It wasn't like it was hard because actually find school very easy, but it was the where my struggle comes is, you know, in business, it's now like paperwork, stuff, the administrative stuff. But in school it was like that homework part, and being able to organize that. So that was really hard because even back in high school, what ended up happening is, I would work I was working two to three jobs. I actually ended up working like full time between all my jobs, and school was second like it wasn't my priority. So I think I've always it's not it wasn't even a time commitment thing. It's but it is that mental energy. And so yeah, being in college, it made it harder. And again, I wish I had known because I would have set up better study habits but I was able, I had this one professor who said the difference between a student and a D student is the a student is willing to pull the all nighter, haha and most of my classes like it was usually like okay you write papers. Or you would be tested. But it wasn't a lot of like, you know, like homework for the sake of homework. Betsy 15:07 Right, right exactly what all stuff that you have in, in middle school in high school that's just so wearing on people. Amber 15:17 Exactly. So in that regard, I did well because I would pull the all nighter and I would, you know, study like crazy for the test and I would do really well so that that helps. And then but then there were certain times where I did it like a self paced class and I ended up just failing because I never did one thing in it. Because it was right. It was just as weird. Yeah, it wasn't the right direction. Betsy 15:41 From an executive functioning standpoint, though self paced classes are so difficult. Amber 15:46 Although oddly, I had it I had self paced like, I had to go back and retake algebra two or something like that. I can't remember what something because I've been too long, right. And I did a self paced class for that. But there was a class meeting time, and I did so well. And also I'm really good at math. So math is so easy, right? So I was like, okay, but this other one was, yeah, that like reading and writing papers, and it was all and you never met, you never went anywhere. Right own. I failed and I couldn't even like, that's where it's like so frustrating and like, I could be so successful. And then I couldn't even withdraw myself from the class. Like, it makes no sense, right? So you're like, Oh, what is wrong with me? But yeah, so Betsy 16:31 that's something that I think is really important in the employment setting to is for managers to know that some people with ADHD need a you know, more frequent deadlines or a big project broken down down into tasks for them, or just some kind of like, weekly accountability. Yeah, just check in weekly on the project or whatever. And I think sometimes Managers are, you know, maybe they think people tend to be over, you know, micro managers or, you know, under management. And, and that's really I think that becomes very hard for people with ADHD if they have to work in a situation that's like a self paced class Amber 17:17 in management to also doesn't work because it's like, that's how my creativity happens. And yeah, I mean, it was so bad that even in grad school, when we had to write our final thesis, this is your final thing, you know, the to finish to graduate like it has to be approved and accepted. I ended up and I found strategies that worked for me, I ended up having to rent a hotel for two days. So I would go and like focus on it. And what ended up happening is like, I got there, and then I like ordered room service and rented movies. And then finally in the final day, at like, 10pm I started going and I and I finished it through because that's perfect. part right. and I was great. And I passed. And so it was wonderful that it's like, I, I wish I had learned the strategies to kind of help me do that and not in such a stressful way. Betsy 18:15 And do you think if you were you were diagnosed with ADHD at the time, you were saying earlier that you wished he would have been? And do you think it would have made a big difference? Just knowing that about yourself? Amber 18:30 I think what's what's helped out a lot. So I got diagnosed at 41. So about three years ago, what I've learned is how to, like I know what things won't work for me or like, I'm able to go, okay, and not just see it as a failure. Because before I would say, Oh, well, if it's important enough to me, or, you know, I'm capable of this. So why can't you? Why should Why can't you just do this? Instead of saying like, hey, this actually is just How I work in this will be so much harder approach the way I think I learned when I was young and been taught strategy study strategies that helped me because it's like, by the time I figured this out, you know, I'm doing this my whole life. And so like, my strategy is wait until there's enough pressure, and then, and then hyper focus, and then you're able to just like pull through, but it's also very stressful and it's not right, it's not good sleep habits. It's not good. You know, it causes a lot of distress in that in that procrastination, period time. And so, you know, like, I wish that I could have just a lot of cortisol going into my system. Betsy 19:45 really that good for you probably. It's so interesting, because my brain works in such a different way about that. I'm not a person who will, you know, there are people who will do the paper like as soon as the signs and it's like, you know, they have it ready. Two weeks early, I'm not that person. I have a bit of procrastinate, but then my whole life I have given myself rewards. So I will automatically break a project down into different steps. And then I will reward myself like, Okay, if I work on this, and I still do this all the time. If I do paperwork for an hour, then I can watch a hallmark holiday. Yes, I do this, then I can do that. Like I've always had that internal reward kind of strategy. And so it's it's so interesting that that all of our brains don't work the same. And then and I couldn't if I tried to study at one o'clock in the morning, there's no way I can do that. Like, there's no way I would just have to fail the task because if I waited until 1am to start something, I'd be asleep by 1:15. I just, I just can't pull all nighters. So that's not a strategy for me. Yeah. And that's hard for me. Amber 21:05 And I think that's the important thing is understanding yourself. And unfortunately, what I see with so many people with ADHD is you might know yourself but because everyone including yourself is telling you will you're just doing it wrong. You, you obviously don't care about it enough or, you know, you're not getting feedback to say like, Oh, you got to work the way you got to figure out how you work and make it happen. You get told like you're being lazy you're, you're you know, what's wrong with you that you forgot that or you're disorganized or you know, turning to Betsy 21:37 Right. And it's a lazy I think the light you're lazy. You're not trying hard enough. Yeah, I think that is something that that that people hear kids. I think everybody hears that so much. Yes, they if they have ADHD or any kind of learning difference or any cognitive difference at all. Amber 22:01 And I, and I wasn't in until my late 20s or late 20s, probably maybe 30. Where I was like, I would always hear, especially from my mom, like, you're so lazy, you're so lazy. And then I would also hear you're doing too much. You're doing too much. You're overwhelming yourself. And and then I'm like, right, which one? Is it? Because it's true, like, on one hand, how can you tell somebody they're lazy when they actually are doing? Like, they do a lot. Like, like I said, I do sports. I, you know, like, I had a friend that were like, I, you know, I had a social life. And so it's like one of those things. It's like, not lazy. So I really try to help people reframe this, you were unmotivated. You know, like, all right, right. You get into overwhelm and you shut down and I and now like, once you learn it, and you can see the signs, you're like, Okay, now this is how I can address it and get myself out of that shutdown mode faster. Right, right. So it happens. It's really hard. But that's I think that's the hard part. It's like Once you know yourself, but you can't just know yourself, you have to accept yourself. And once you find that acceptance, you can figure out how to make it work. And the beauty of this day and age is we have so many options. It's not everyone doesn't have to work the nine to five. I mean, in fact, most people don't. And so I knew like so once I opened up my therapy practice, I was like, okay, for years I did, I had to do like, early mornings, because I had young kids and we were trying to minimize childcare. And then after some time went by, I realized like, well actually was like five years. After that time period, I said, Okay, what works ideally for me is I would start seeing clients at one in the afternoon and I would see them till 9pm because I may get up early, but I my brain takes time to kind of wake up and be in that is, and I am like, on fire in the afternoon like I'm amazing, but in the morning, not so much. Like, and I can Betsy 24:00 About so important to is for people to know what time of day they work the bus, yes and and then and then maximize that time because I'm a mid morning person. I'm a, like 10am to about one or two. That's kind of my, like, optimal time or super late night I can get another kind of a second wind late at night. But that doesn't work that well for my family. So my typical time is like 10 to two. And it's I think that's so important to know when you work the best. Exactly. I don't know. Amber 24:40 So really honor it. Because Yeah, that people will say, Oh, I want to like I sometimes depending on who it is like I've done a podcast episode really early. Because you know, like, especially if they're a big name with a big list and you're like, Okay, I'll work with your schedule. But I'm my brain isn't really in it. I'm still good. It's just I'm much better in the afternoon. But what I do find is, I am really great with creative work or brainstorming in the morning. So like quiet time. So for me, if I go to work at 10, like that 10 to one time, I'm great at kind of brainstorming ideas or like, Okay, this is the next project I want to do, or, you know, like, kind of organizing things, that's what I'm good at, but the actual, like, having to be in that responsive place of, you know, because a lot of a lot of like, I'm kind of coaching Well, now I've kind of transitioned online to an online business, but I'm a coachy person, so it's like fixing people's problems. You know, I gotta, you gotta really be awake and be attentive for that. So, so yeah, it's figuring out what type of work during what time of day. So that's another piece of it. Betsy 25:50 Yes. So real quickly when you work for people you know, the the time of day matter The you know type of work you were doing mattered What else can you think of that made a difference and when you were working for someone that ADHD either helped or or harmed Amber 26:12 Um, so the harm stuff was always around time management I think that was always the negative feedback I got okay. Betsy 26:20 Late For meetings are forgetting about things Amber 26:22 Know once I'm at work i'm i'm good right there, but it was getting to work on that mattered. That was a problem. But and this might be a little genex thing but I am a really hard worker. So like, I'm kind of notorious for like, I don't even like taking sick days like I always show up. Although when I was when I was really hating a job and feeling really burnt out by it that I probably did not want to go very much. Now that I'm thinking back, I would get into the zone where I would just like watch TV for like, felt like days on end like I could just waste so much time. So it was this thing where I was like going 100 miles an hour, or zero miles an hour. And so there was like, there wasn't an in between. and that feels crappy. Right? So, so I would say, mostly, that was the negative stuff. Or I would be kind of hate to call it like emotional, but like, I was very passionate about things. And so I felt like something was wrong. Like I was very vocal about it. Right. Right. So I don't know, like, my, my sense of social justice is like super, you know, developed is what I will. I'm going to say that in such a nice way. It's such a bad way right now. Yeah, I would have worded it very differently before. So I think that was a struggle because I really definitely got emotionally impacted by people in that way. Um, but on the positive side, like goes back to that creativity. Yeah, talk about like, we would be in a meeting and they would be like, Oh, you know, I wish we could do this. And I would search it out. Figure it out. And then, like, I remember, I was working for this one company, and I, I supported marketing, you know, in the internet operations department. And so they wanted to do these ads. And they wanted, this was a long time ago. So they wanted it to have, they wanted to have like, an audio component. And so I figured out how we could for free in house record, an audio component to these ads we were putting on our on our site, and and do it and I figured that out within like an hour of this one meeting, and they were just blown away and so happy, you know, so it's like, right, like that where I could, and I know it's like, nowadays, they'll be like, well, that's stupid. That's so easy. It's like no, this didn't right. Betsy 28:43 And it wasn’t that bad, right. I also think that that ability to think outside the box and to think about things in very different ways. I think, our brains being all everybody's brain I believe is so different from each other. And I think that is so valuable in a workplace if the workplace honors it, because you can think of things that nobody else would think about, because it's not the status quo, you know, it's something different or something new. And I think that is really. really valuable. Exactly. Amber 29:25 Yeah, having a work environment that supports that, that allows the space for that creativity to happen. And then so I guess another thing my this is kind of, I think it was the other reason why I did so well and the ADHD stuff didn't come out until I got to a place where I was burnt out. And my bandwidth was just too low. But I was I was an obsessive list writer, and I would either be extremely organized like a totally organized or it would be complete chaos. Right again, the All right, yeah. And yeah, so But what ended up happening then is because of my need for organization to be able to function, I was really good at like documenting processes. Which is ironic because I really struggle with this in my business now that I'm the business owner because it's like, I don't have time to do that. But when it was just when my job was to do this one job, then I had, you know, I had the focus for it. So I created like, their operations manuals and I trained people and so like that kind of stuff, and I love training people you know, the teaching component, the connecting with people one on one. So again, it's about finding what are those strengths that you naturally have and ride you know, ride that force in that direction? It's already going right? Don't try to do something different that is not not working to your strengths, right? Because you should and I think that's the thing is I should do this or I should want to and, and you know, it's the same thing with like management right? Like They say, you know, you people are promoted to their, to their place of in competence. It's like, well, if you want to be promoted, you should want to manage other people. And it's like, Well, some people are just, that's not manage other people, right? Betsy 31:15 And they're probably not going to be good at it. Amber 31:19 And that's the that's the only way they can get, you know, promoted and raises and all that. And it's like, well, that's a crappy structure. And so, because I do work with a lot of high achievers, you know, especially being in was in Silicon Valley for 22 years. And we just moved the summer, but it was like, I would see all these, you know, startup CEOs and C suite executives, and they would tell me about this because, again, a lot of people have ADHD, and they're like, oh, like, I don't want to have to manage people. Right. But it's the only way to get promoted. Betsy 31:51 I know. It's, there's so much work to be done. Amber 31:55 There is Betsy 31:56 So many things to be changed. So Tell me Tell my audience actually a little bit about how they can connect with you and if you have a couple of podcasts I please tell them about that Amber 32:12 Yes so I guess the best places to reach me number one would be amberholly.com that's where I'm doing I kind of trends because we've made a move across country again. I've transitioned to doing all of my work with couples and with individuals online so I'm doing coaching online with people and I have the couple six podcasts that goes along with that. So you can either check out couples fix or go to amber Holly calm. And the other piece is I co host the my biz bestie podcast and with my friend Dr. Melissa Hall, and that when we started it's primarily for women but we have a lot of we call them biz bros, but help female entrepreneurs find their business support system. Because I will say that's probably the number one thing I've learned in having a business for the last nine years is my staff, you know, having people that support me so it's not just about your team, it's also about having a biz bestie inner circle, you know, yeah, networking, all that support, but having that team that supports me like I have somebody who is so great and organized and on top of the details, so that I don't have to be because I create otherwise I'll be so stressed out because, you know, that's not my strongest part, right though. The paperwork part. I'm just terrible. Betsy 33:38 So hire somebody else to do that. Amber 33:41 Oh my gosh, it makes life so good. Betsy 33:44 And I think also, you know, with all my all my business friends, and it's so wonderful to have people to bounce ideas off of and your podcast is kind of a biz bestie for all of us that we are Get that info from so that's awesome. So yeah, just my biz bestie in anywhere we listen to podcasts or couples fix podcasts, both of those. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us today and telling us how you're using ADHD to live your best life. And I know that my audience is going to want to connect with you. So remember to subscribe to my podcast and subscribe to ambers podcasts as well. So thank you, thank you. Thank you and Amber. I appreciate it so much and I will talk to you soon. Amber 34:34 Thank you Transcribed by https://otter.ai
We sent 500 ranked-choice voting ballots into the lion's den: middle school classrooms. Listen in as Rosemary Blizzard and Melissa Hall talk about what the Great Middle School Election of 2019 taught us about ranked-choice voting, Christmas carols, and the mind of the American middle schooler. Resources mentioned in this episode: The Great Middle School Election Ballot: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MubuQC0EjL2DFDeXv2ZHZJQ_m4jrnGx4 The Great Middle School Election Ballot Survey: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pgFY1ErJOisTs6uqT8Ds901EXyXJjoK2 Introducing Ranked-Choice Voting Ballots: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CRG1dHBM6GEa08B82eTsJWzN7Zp77CHY/view
In this episode we are talking about Melissa's crazy story and what she needed to go through to succeed in real estate. I'm so inspired by her passion and willingness to never ever give up! That's such a big key to be successful in this business.
Today we have Melissa Hall, founder of The Emerging Designer and a brand strategy consultant. Melissa started her platform in 2012 after working with a variety of entrepreneurs and realized the opportunity for exposure, education and meaningful connections in the industry. Over the years I have found the Emerging Designer to be an essential resource for navigating how to run my brand. I met Melissa in 2014 when she visited the Philadelphia Fashion Incubator. She gave me great insight into my brand and we have kept in touch over the years. Melissa has worked on some pretty impressive projects like consulting with Design Entrepreneurs NYC, a mini-MBA program for top NYC emerging fashion companies. I got to visit her this summer and catch up on all the new projects she is working on.
Enjoy the complete, unedited interview with Seattle City Council candidate for District 6, Melissa Hall. While you listen to the conversation, check out her website here: https://www.hall4six.com/Questions for Melissa? Find her on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/Hall4SixHosts: Sarah Smith, Bill Ryan, Troy Hewitt, Corn, Mark RoutonProduction: Jay Smith, Corn This Episode's Music: Intro: The Vendetta by Stefan Kartenberg (c) copyright 2018 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution (3.0) license. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/JeffSpeed68/58628 Ft: Apoxode Outro: Living Nightmare by Snowflake (c) copyright 2016 Licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution (3.0) license. http://dig.ccmixter.org/files/snowflake/54422 Ft: Blue Wave Theory
In this opening episode of Season 2, we explore the aspects of reflective writing. Our guest, Carmen Melissa Hall, was reviewing her past poetry and found a collective theme. From there she embarked on a topic the topic "The Gift of Now", which is relevant to each of us. In our conversation, we explored the gifts of: § Finding the purpose in your daily challenges § Discovering how to better serve people § Discovering your purpose § How to take action and stop procrastinating § Taking time to pause in order to find the purpose behind what is happening to you § Addressing writing obstacles § Letting go of the things you cannot control Follow us @PenpointPodcast on IG
The spring season of Gravy, featuring 5 episodes reported and produced by Sara Brooke Curtis, begins on May 2. With John T. Edge and Melissa Hall as your cohosts, you'll: Sneak behind the pipe-and-drape with the Lee Brothers for a look at the catering industry. Monkey around Mobile with the ghost of Eugene Walter. Behold the quiet power of cookbooks with Julia Turshen. And more. Available at southernfoodways.org and wherever you get your podcasts.
On this episode we talk to Melissa Hall about their campaign for Seattle City Council in the 6th District. The 6th includes Ballard, Green Lake, Phinney Ridge, and Loyal Heights. Support Talk to Seattle: Patreon Follow Twitter: @talktoseattle Or Call The Voicemail Line: 425-835-2766
Welcome to On the Record, a weekly podcast with news, sports, and nightlife segments. This week Lurah Spell talked to Ronda Paulson, the executive director and founder of Isaiah 117 House, about her nonprofit organization, which provides a safe, temporary place for children in Carter County to go after they’re taken from their homes into Tennessee Department of Children’s Services custody until caseworkers can find foster homes for them. Paulson, Melissa Hall and Lisa Lundberg also talked about expanding the nonprofit into Sullivan and Greene counties by working to open a Isaiah 117 house in each county. Support the show.
Five women in food podcasting convene to talk about their passion projects at Charleston Wine + Food. Kat Johnson and Caity Moseman Wadler are joined by Melissa Hall (co-host of Gravy), Lindsay Collins (host/creator of Effin B Radio), and Kathryn Budig (co-host of Free Cookies). They discuss finding a voice, the process of building an episode, and collaboration in podcasting. In honor of International Women’s Day, they shout out inspiring women in their lives. HRN On Tour is powered by Simplecast.
Lindsay and Sarah talk about the Ted Bundy Documentary on Netflix (that guy sucked) and Twin Peaks! Then they interview the amazing brand builder, public speaker, consultant, teacher at FIT, and founder of "The Emerging Designer," Melissa Hall. She talks about her love of entrepreneurs, "The Assemblage" in NYC, her love of wellness/balance and her battle with cancer. You'll walk away inspired. A must listen!
Life Skills That Matter | Learn why self-employment is the future of work.
Melissa Hall turned "cocktail party law" from a burden into a business model and she joins us to talk about why you should embrace being a generalist. Show notes at lifeskillsthatmatter.com/show257 The post Embrace Being A Generalist With Melissa Hall (257) appeared first on Life Skills That Matter.
Lawyer Melissa Hall shares exciting news about the new parentage act being enacted in Washington state and hopefully, beyond. 0:00 Introduction and host chat Under 18? Stop listening now and visit http://www.scarleteen.com 1:00 Host chat and announcements Let’s talk about the new Netflix show, Wanderlust. **SPOILERS FROM 4:30-9:30** 9:30 Poly in the news Teen Vogue hits it out of the park again. 10:30 Interview: Melissa Hall on new, poly-friendly parentage laws in the U.S. Melissa Hall shares updates to parentage laws in Washington state and adoptable throughout the U.S. The Parentage Act makes possible third-parent adoptions and establishes rules for de facto parentage. This enables third- (or fourth!)-parent adoptions. “Uniform law” means they’ll push to enact in all 50 states. New definitions of de facto parenting mean that the court can recognize people as parents when both the adult and kid see the kid as a parent, even if they aren’t a legal parent. Find Melissa on Twitter at @vrimj, online at www.Smol-law.com or via email at Melissa@smollaw.com. 24:15 Feedback Alana writes in about episode 560 Poly and pregnant, saying that they had to revert to monogamy during her pregnancy due to hormones, stress, and the insecurities that surfaced. 26:15 Happy poly moment Louise in the U.K. writes in to share a story of going from being lonely and polyunsaturated to being in the middle of a long squiggly polycule and full of NRE. 28:15 How to make this podcast better Questions? Comments? Feedback? Email polyweekly@gmail.com and attach an audio comment or call the listener comment line at 802-505-POLY. If you want us to teach a class at your event, want us to coach you, or want to appear on the podcast, email lustyguy@polyweekly.com. Friend us on Twitter or Facebook, leave a comment here. Check out Poly Weekly podcasts at polyweekly.libsyn.com. Share this with a friend or write a review on Apple Podcasts! Our intro and outro music is courtesy of Pacemaker Jane, “Good Suspicions.”
Send any ethics questions that you’d like me to address in a future episode. Reach me at megan@zaviehlaw.com or Tweet me @zaviehlaw Lawyers no longer have to fear ethics constraints when crafting a law practice that truly reflects their lifestyle desires and needs. It’s possible to build a practice that provides flexibility and fulfillment while allowing lawyers to provide legal services in the way that they choose. I’m joined by Melissa Hall of Smol Law, a primary legal care practice in Seattle, Washington. Melissa shares how she’s innovating with her law practice without fear of ethics. What We Discuss in This Episode: How Melissa took an old school practice and brought it into modern day Why it’s important for lawyers to actually care about the work that they do Aside from providing counseling and advice, how Melissa is using her network to help clients find other lawyers How Melissa is able to implement innovative practices Why lawyers rarely stop and think about what they really want out of their careers How to plan for a practice that suits your life and lifestyle What it looks like to have a practice when you have an illness or other medical condition that requires constant attention Planning and preparing for a “backup” lawyer for your solo practice The virtual nature of Melissa’s practice and how she schedules her consultation calls How Melissa’s retainer agreements and early communications with clients anticipate and reduce any surprises The value of providing your services as a monthly retainer and subscription-style service Resources Mentioned: Patreon Jeena Cho's Episode 6 Contact Information: melissa@smol-law.com Melissa's website Thank you for listening! Don’t forget to SUBSCRIBE to the show to receive every new episode delivered straight to your podcast player every Tuesday. If you enjoyed this episode, please help me get the word out about this podcast. Rate and Review this show in Apple Podcasts, Stitcher Radio, and Google Play, and be sure to share this podcast with a friend. Be sure to connect with me and reach out with any questions/concerns: Facebook LinkedIn Website Email me at megan[at]zaviehlaw[dot]com This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not to be construed as legal advice specific to your circumstances. If you need help with any legal matters, be sure to consult with an attorney regarding your specific needs.
In this episode, Melissa Hall argues that lawyers can learn from healthcare, where a primary care doctor diagnoses and treats common health problems and sends patients to specialists as necessary. As with doctors, primary care lawyers could be the primary user interface for law. It's the approach Melissa has taken with her own practice, Smol Law. Melissa Hall is a general practice, "primary care" attorney who helps clients navigate the legal system by solving legal problems, helping clients solve their legal problems, or helping them find someone who can.
The short and sweet of it! If you're interested in finding out still more about the idea community, listen in, as Anna continues through the month of March, highlighting the concept of community from all angles, including Masterminds, tribes, and villages. Join Anna and her two guests, Melissa and Amber and find out more about the amazing things that community can offer you, as women. Melissa Hall is a licensed psychologist from California. She has two businesses- a private practice, where she provides counseling for adults who struggle with ADHD and she does evaluations and career counseling. She also offers online services in this business, where she likes doing things differently and pushing the envelope and trying new strategies in the world of mental health. Her other business is online, to train therapists in how to make paperwork more manageable and less of a nightmare. Amber Holly is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. She has a private practice in California, as well as two online businesses- Couples Fix.com, an online resource for couples and Amber Holly.com, where she provides solutions for overwhelmed overachievers. Listen in today and find out how they created a community that really works for them. Don't forget March 31st is when the early bird discount expires for the Shine Retreat. Register at www.ShineRetreatForWomen.com Go to: www.amberhawley.com/herlifeunscripted/ for Maelisa and Amber's handout: Mavens, Mentors and Masterminds. A Step By Step Guide To Creating Your Community And Finding Your Biz Bestie A huge thank you to Gina Ballard, my lovely friend and a generous sponsor for the Shine Retreat for Women. You can learn more about her work at www.ginanicole.net and also listen to her awesome interview on the podcast, https://itunes.apple.com/podcast/11-permission-to-be-you-with-special-guest-gina-ballard/id1128634758?i=1000373595558&mt=2&ls=1 LIVE FEED LINK: https://www.facebook.com/herlifeunscripted/videos/vb.1755269774688692/1900238100191858/?type=2&theater Want the show notes? Get 'em here.
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