For All Abilities -The Podcast is meant to inform the world of the amazing people out there who are succeeding in HUGE ways with brains who don’t fit into the imaginary norm. While developing software to help businesses support their employees with , dyslexia, autism and learning differences, I was continually shocked to find out how many people were ashamed or felt less than due to these conditions. I vowed to change the way the world sees cognitive differences and the podcast was born.
For All Abilities – The Podcast Liz De La Torre - A Successful Nursing Career with ADHD For this episode of For All Abilities: The Podcast, I spoke with Liz De La Torre - one of my son’s nurses. She talks about her nursing career and ADHD. To connect with Henry, please email her at liz.torre60@gmail.com. Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Transcription by Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome to for all abilities, the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Have a listen to for all abilities, the podcast and please subscribe on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Hi, everybody. This is Betsy, your host for all abilities. Thank you so much for joining me today on my podcast. This podcast is meant to inspire everyone to use all of their differences as their strengths. And we frequently talk about neuro diversity and how it's so important to have different brains in this world. Today I have a special guest, Liz della toray hopefully I said that correctly, Liz, please introduce yourself to my audience. Liz de la Torre 1:05 Hi, I'm Liz de la Torre. And I am 60 years old. I've been a nurse for 37 years. And I have been ADHD actually since I was 21 years old. So 49 years 39 long time. Betsy Furler 1:24 Awesome. And we met, um, because you have been my son, Henry's nurse, several multiple times. And we got started talking and I was so glad that you agreed to be on the podcast. And so I guess I gave people a little bit of a teaser that you're a nurse professionally, but we'll get to that in a minute. And so tell us what were you like when you were a little girl? Liz de la Torre 1:48 So when I was little, I went to Catholic schools and it was just strict girls school nuns only, and I never could sit still back then there wasn't a day diagnosis of and so I was always getting spanked, pinched ears cold, you got ants in your pants, that kind of situation. And I would try, you know, super hard to just sit down and pay attention but I couldn't because I was my mind was going elsewhere and I needed to get up. So it was that kind of thing. I'm home. It was pretty. I had an older brother. He was nine years older than me and it was kind of like, he was also in a private school. But he would poke at me, I think, I guess he knew, you know that something. I couldn't sit sit still or whatever it was that he would always poke at me and get me in trouble with my parents. Especially. Yeah, Betsy Furler 2:52 you spent a lot of time in trouble. It sounds like Liz de la Torre 2:55 I did. I did and it was like, as hard as I would try. Boom, you get it. Betsy Furler 3:02 Right, you just couldn't make your body do fit into the box of what they wanted you to how they wanted you to behave. Correct. So what about when you got on to middle school in high school? Liz de la Torre 3:16 Okay, so middle school and high school the same kind of situations with the nuns. And, you know, once you're in middle school, there was it wasn't like we have normal schools now I kind of just float into the next one and then it flowed into high school. But it was pretty much the same thing. grades, I could make super good grades without even studying. But if I didn't care to do it, I would just kind of you know breeze through it because like I said, My mind was going 50,000 miles a minute, and I didn't understand what was the deal. Why didn't everybody else think in speed version like I did. Betsy Furler 3:57 Did you go to the same school for 12 years or were you did you move at each different level? Liz de la Torre 4:04 So much amount Sacred Heart, which was the elementary school and I went there through sixth grade. And then seventh grade at Incarnate Word. This was in San Antonio Incarnate Word open their seventh and eighth grade. So that's where I went seventh through 12th grade. Betsy Furler 4:23 Okay. Okay, so it's kind of same feeder pattern, so to speak, but different schools. So, what did you think? Well, let me ask you about homework, first of all, because I, as I've interviewed so many people, homework seems to have been a big issue for people, lots of people with ADHD. How did you do with homework? Liz de la Torre 4:44 No, my homework I had was impeccable. I would, I would do it all the time. And I wanted my homework to be perfect. It had to be. I actually we were laughing the other day at work. Because, um, my grandmother taught me how to write and she would take erasers off the big pencils. Well, my brother came home one day and he was bothering me. I was writing my ABCs and he said, What are you doing? Then I kept saying, I'm writing, I'm writing and he pushed my arm so my pencil went across the paper. Ultimately, I was ruining my paper. The man died with the red mark in his in his eye. Unknown Speaker 5:26 Literally. Betsy Furler 5:27 Hey, I think a lot of us have scars still from pencils been poked out. Yeah, he definitely deserved that. And well, that's interesting about the homework. So why do you think the homework was easier for you to concentrate on than the schoolwork? Liz de la Torre 5:45 I don't know. Maybe it was maybe it was because I was in my own environment. Maybe it was because somebody wasn't telling me constantly your back your or pinching at me or poking at me or doing something to me. Maybe that's what it was. I really don't know. Betsy Furler 6:03 Did you do homework in silence? Or did you have like background noise and things like that? Liz de la Torre 6:09 No, I always had to have and looking back on it now. I've always had to have some kind of noise. Music mainly going on background. Betsy Furler 6:20 I went homework versus in the school setting. Unknown Speaker 6:25 I never thought about it. Betsy Furler 6:29 That's interesting. So after high school, what did you do? Liz de la Torre 6:32 So I went to college, um, high school was a blow off. It was a party time for me. And so when my parents were moving from San Antonio, they both retired when I graduated. And oddly enough, they were moving from San Antonio to Houston to retire. Um, so I wanted to stay in San Antonio because I had just gotten a new little boyfriend and all that good stuff. So my main focus, my main thing is I told my dad, I want to go to college. And he looked at me like, it was extremely demeaning. And he said to me, You need to marry one of our rich friend sons. Why would you go to school, college after high school? And I was like, because, you know, high school to me, a C and A d when I got in high school, that was great. I was passing Unknown Speaker 7:21 too bad. Right? Right. So Liz de la Torre 7:23 he looked at me and he said, Okay, I'm gonna let you stay. one semester. What do you want to be? A nurse just popped into my head, and I said, and he said, a nurse, you want to be a nurse? I said, Yeah, I want to be a nurse. So he said, Okay, one semester, we're gonna see how it goes. So he got we got an apartment. I had a car, paid for my school. Dean's list for five semesters. Betsy Furler 7:55 Wow. Where did you go to nursing school. Liz de la Torre 7:58 I went to see Antonio College for the first two semesters because I think he wanted to see if his money was gonna be spent or not. And then I went to UTSA. And so, at the end of that, it was time it was gonna be time to go into nursing school because I'd gotten all my, you know, I gotten all my academics and stuff down. And so he and my mother came down. And this is a this is about when I went to and I got diagnosed. And they asked me, my dad asked me, so do you like your apartment? And I was like, Yes. Do you like your car? Well, yes. And finally, he looked at me like I was some kind of dumbbell. And he said, Do you like to eat? I said, Well, yeah, of course I do. And he said, then you're gonna have to get a job. Like, get a job for why he said, Well, if you want to stay in Houston, San Antonio, you're gonna have to pay for all your stuff. Or you can come to Houston. And I was like, Are you serious? He said I am. So I had to pack up and I came to Houston and during a physical for enlisted in a during a physical for nursing school. That's when it came up about because I started noticing in math and statistics I could memorize, like series of numbers and keep it. Uh huh. And it was like, What do you call it when you can? Like photographic memory, I can do it. My son can do it, oddly enough, too. But it was eat. That's what a nursing school was extremely easy because I could read the testing material the night before, go to sleep. Wake up and I could see the page. So it was like, great. There it is. But they did diagnose me at the time. It was something before Adderall that they gave me. I forgot what it was. But it started making me calm down. But what it really did is it made me be able to put things like in sequences so I could understand stuff. Betsy Furler 10:12 I went through I said, I said before you were kind of you had a great memory so you're able to just regurgitate that material. Correct? Excuse me, but not necessarily and comprehend and, and synthesize everything together. Liz de la Torre 10:28 I think I could I Well, I'm sure I could comprehend because of my grades and everything. But what I started to do is I think it was things that really interested me that I can stop for a minute and pay attention. And there you go, there it is. Betsy Furler 10:50 Yes, and I think nursing is such a great career for people with ADHD because it's so it's fast paced, and then it's always something different. You know, Like you have all these different patients with all these different conditions, having, you know, in your current job setting different, you know, different treatments being done. So, it's got to be more exciting than some other, you know, a desk job or whatever. Right. So after you were diagnosed, what kind? what difference did that make for you? Liz de la Torre 11:23 It's almost as Um, Unknown Speaker 11:27 so Liz de la Torre 11:29 I could concentrate more. I could effectively do things like so. When I would stay when I go to start cleaning a house, I'd be in the kitchen. Then I would go to Oh, I remember there's there's a glass in the bathroom. Let me go get it did not start cleaning the bathroom, you know, and it was like, and then the Unknown Speaker 11:51 planes Liz de la Torre 11:51 cracked in the bathroom, you know, it just wasn't completed. So once I started getting medicine, it was like, I could Concentrate and know I can't go there. I need to stay here and complete this task. Uh huh. Was it? You know, Betsy, when I'm thinking about it with work, I could complete stuff. And I don't know. I don't know. Maybe like I said, maybe it was just because there was a big interest there. Right. Betsy Furler 12:21 Right. warehouse workers say is boring anyway. It's Liz de la Torre 12:25 not a big interest. Right? Yeah. Betsy Furler 12:30 So how did it help your self esteem to be diagnosed? Or or did it did it help? Liz de la Torre 12:37 I think as far as my self esteem, I don't. I don't think it helped that. I think it helped me understand that. When I was a little kid, I really wasn't a bad kid. I just really couldn't sit still. There's just too many things going on and I was just wired different. Betsy Furler 13:00 It kind of explained it. You were able to understand yourself better. Probably correct. Yeah. So then after you got out of out of nursing school, where did you What do you didn't end up doing? Liz de la Torre 13:12 So when I was first a nurse, I became, it was an odd year. So I graduated nursing school. I got married. I got I got pregnant, and I passed my boards. Wow. Yeah. Easy year. Yeah. And so my first job was at Methodist and in labor and delivery, and I really loved it really, really loved it. But once again, when I got pregnant, I quit taking my medicine. So I was learning about labor and delivery. And I couldn't I couldn't grasp how to how to figure out how many centimeters do they dilated because it's kind of like I was concentrating on too many things. They're finally it snapped, I got everything. And it just kind of like all fell into place. When it happened, you know, once I started understanding, but now I was really having to control my thoughts because and you know, in my mind because it was racing. Mm hmm. There was nothing to settle it down. So it was kind of like me having to talk me down. Interesting because once I kind of, I guess I got a taste of the good, or the right wife, you know how it's really supposed to be? Uh huh. And then when it got taken away from me when I got pregnant, it was like, Oh, no, here we go again. Mm hmm. But now I think I was getting I was like, 24 now 20 Yeah. 24 And so now, I was kind of getting used to or starting to understand how to talk through it and in with me in my mind. And yeah, kind of like myself, Betsy Furler 15:05 you were able to coach yourself through it this summer. So how do you think that HD has hindered you and then also helped you in your career? Liz de la Torre 15:20 So, I can't, I really can't see that it's hindered me so much. Because I've done a lot in my career. I was the nurse have been taught in the emergency room. Um, and you know, there, you're having to triage excitement. Yeah. I know, you know, you're having to triage and you're having to keep stuff. This goes here and this goes there. And so I think it really helped me. A lot of and after that a lot of my jobs. They've been, like the nurse manager for home health, always with infusion. Mm hmm. I've always had to, you know, once again, triage what's important who's got to be seen. Where are we going? What part of the city? And then if there weren't nurses, I had to, you know, I'd have to jump in and go see patients. Mm hmm. And then come home and do my come back and do my desk job. So it was, I can't say it's hindered me. Betsy Furler 16:21 It sounds like it sounds like nursing, you somehow just fell into a job that's perfect for you. Liz de la Torre 16:31 I think so. I mean, it's always like, like you said, it's a fast pace. Everybody's different, you know, from what we're treating now. As opposed to you know how it was before when we were doing home health. there was all kinds of antibiotics off TPN the total parental nutrition stuff I used to I was one of five in the city who used to put picc lines in at the very beginning when picc lines came out. Uh huh. So that was kind of cool because you get called, you know, can you go do a picc line, Betsy Furler 17:04 blah, blah, and you go, right, right. And then that was also probably kind of good for you. I know with myself, I'm not diagnosed with ADHD, but I definitely like a variety of different activities. And if I had a desk job, it's kind of what I'm doing now, because I'm doing everything from home. But then occasionally, I'll get to go do something. And it's like, just having that change of scenery occasionally, I think is so helpful for just not getting bored and refocusing and everything. Liz de la Torre 17:36 Correct. And I think if I would have had to stay home in the midst of it and when it first started all this the COVID I don't think I would have done well. I would have gone nuts. Yeah, because it was just Betsy Furler 17:52 Yeah, that's a great topic to discuss here because we are still you know, most of us are still staying home. You've gotten to go to work or had to Get to work however you want to frame that. And yeah, so, um, let's talk a little bit about COVID and stay at home. How do you think you? What do you think would have happened if you had to stay at home and you weren't an essential worker? Liz de la Torre 18:17 Well, I know what happened on the weekends. I frequented the garden center and Lowe's almost every Saturday and Sunday and have a nice garden outside. I just couldn't do it. I wouldn't be able to just stay home. Uh huh. Betsy Furler 18:37 Well, that's awesome. much weight. I've lost 25 pounds over the stay at home order because I started walking and then subsequently running because I can't stay in my house all day, every day and on the you know, it's like when there's nothing else to do. It's like at least I can walk around the neighborhood. Oh, Liz de la Torre 18:57 yeah. I couldn't do it. wouldn't have been able to do it. Betsy Furler 19:02 Yeah, that's really interesting. My husband also has ADHD. And he's also considered essential because he's in construction and as a general contractor, and I think it's saved. It's saved him. I think he would have he, you know, it's been very hard on him anyway. And I think it really would have been awful if he wouldn't have been able to get to work at all. Liz de la Torre 19:23 That's correct. That's so right. Yeah. Oh, my God, it would have been dreadful. Betsy Furler 19:31 And he probably would have driven everyone around you crazy. Liz de la Torre 19:35 I would have my husband is one that can sit on the couch and watch TV. And it's like, how can you do that? Do you not have a bedsore yet? Oh my god. Betsy Furler 19:50 So and it seems like at the infusion center that y'all have stayed pretty busy the whole time that it hasn't really changed workload or anything. Liz de la Torre 20:01 We got a little slower than we are right now only because of the chairs. Oh, Betsy Furler 20:08 that was it. Essential distance between the chairs. Right, right. Liz de la Torre 20:12 We should really have like, I think it's 18 or 19 chairs right now. But, you know, we're only using 13. Yeah, in a pinch, it's really should be 12. But in a pinch, we have another one. But we've stayed busy and we're getting super busy right now. Betsy Furler 20:32 And that's also great for the patients because one of my big fears when all of this was starting was that Henry wasn't going to be able to get as big. And, you know, it was like, it really scared me. So I'm just so thankful that that it's the infusion center has stayed open, and it's been he's gotten his infusion every three weeks just like normal work. Yeah, I was so nervous that first time he went In about what it was going to be like, what, how many things was he going to touch between the front doors and hitting the infusion center? About the infusion center itself because, you know, I know how clean and careful y'all are. But I was worried about how many things he might touch on the way in and, but I now know that it's like, pretty, it's pretty streamline. There's nobody else in the elevator for the most part. And it's been great. So I'm so thankful that he's that, that y'all have kept on working and he's been able to get his infusions. Liz de la Torre 21:35 And I'm so happy to see that he does bring scout with them, because then he can have the private room. Right? That's, that's the benefit. And that's a good thing, although we all love Scout, but the good thing is, he can stay in his room. Right? He can watch TV or he can do whatever he pleases, and I sneak in snacks and that's how it goes. Betsy Furler 22:00 Yeah, it's been great. It's it's been his one thing one time to get out of the house too. Unknown Speaker 22:05 So, right. Betsy Furler 22:07 Well, Liz, thank you so much for being a wonderful guest and telling us your story and may and might inspire other people to look into nursing as a career if they have ADHD. Liz de la Torre 22:19 I enjoyed it. I mean, it's been 37 years and I've never regretted Betsy Furler 22:24 a damn. And it's a that does, you can do all sorts of different things like you are studying move on to move on to another one. So and how and Liz de la Torre 22:36 when you think Ben Toby er has finally weighed on your mind. Go? Yeah, right. Next place. Betsy Furler 22:44 One of our another one of our favorite nurses is actually working in benchtop er right now she was. She was the nurse that really saved Henry's life when he had his big psychotic event with autoimmune encephalitis. She was a ER nurse. At the hospital that we went to, and he totally saved to his she took a boy's life. And now she's been havin she's really enjoying the fast pace over there right now to Uh huh. Liz de la Torre 23:13 Oh, Sam. Are you talking about Sam? Betsy Furler 23:18 No, um, no, her name is Lacey. Okay, so she's Yeah, so she was at Memorial city Memorial Hermann, when Henry had his big events, and he sat with him and when he was psychotic, she was she and I were the only people that could keep him calm. It was about her. I guess it was miraculous. Liz de la Torre 23:41 Yes. He told me she saved his life. Betsy Furler 23:44 Yeah, she did. She's She's incredible. And oh, my goodness, nurses have been really so important throughout his life. So important. And I know he wouldn't be here without so many nurses that we've covered. Across over the years, so But she's ever been to VR and she's really like, it's I think she's thriving even through all this COVID stuff. I think she's happy to be there and in the chaos, Liz de la Torre 24:14 I think it can be really rewarding. It really can, you know, it's got its crazy moments. And then you've got your moments where you say, What am I doing here? But there's a lot of good things about it, that there's so many people that you can help there. Betsy Furler 24:32 Well, in one, we met a doctor who works at Ben Tom at an autoimmune encephalitis event that we went to about a year ago. And he was telling me, he said, you know, it's the best place to be when you have something like autoimmune encephalitis, because we don't have to worry about what your insurance is going to pay or not pay. That's true. Go for it. And I was like, Yeah, that's a good that's. I hadn't ever thought of it that way. Because of course, It's so scary to have to go to a county hospital and be in the midst of all of that. But I thought, wow, that that is true. That is very, very true. Liz de la Torre 25:10 So soon as you get your diagnosis, and as soon as you are stable, get out, right. Tell my insurance card. Here you go. Betsy Furler 25:21 Yeah. Thank you so much for joining me. And if people want to connect with you, what's the best way for them to get in touch with you? Liz de la Torre 25:28 Um, you can always use my email. It's a Liz.torre60@gmail.com. Betsy Furler 25:40 Awesome. Thank you for sharing that and thank you for being here. Liz de la Torre 25:45 Okay, and thank you. Unknown Speaker 25:47 Thank you, audience for listening in please. Betsy Furler 25:51 Like, share, and review rate my podcast on whatever podcast app you're listening to. This on. Please follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler. It's f u r le AR, or on Facebook at for all abilities also on Instagram and Twitter at for all abilities. And thanks for tuning in. And please join me again next week for my next interview. Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to us on. If you'd like to know more about what we do in our software that helps employers support their employees with ADHD dyslexia, learning differences in autism, please go to www dot for all abilities.com You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler. f as in Frank, you are le AR Have a great day and we will see you soon
For All Abilities – The Podcast Henry Furler Part Two For this episode of For All Abilities: The Podcast, I got to talk with one of my very favorite people. I interviewed my son, Henry Furler! Henry and I talk about the life threatening medical problems (including epilepsy, dysautonomia, autoimmune disease, autoimmune encephalitis) that he has faced throughout his life and how he has succeeded despite all the challenges. To connect with Henry, please follow him on LinkedIn (Henry Furler) or email him at jhenryfurler@gmail.com. Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Transcription by Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome to for all abilities the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Henry Furler 1:17 I'm so glad to be here again. So when we left off, we were talking about middle school and then High School is when it really got interesting, right? Yes, I'm in ninth grade. For the first semester. I was completely, I was completely homebound. And that would have been 11th grade. No, it was 10th grade Dengue Oh, I think it was in 2008 it might be 11th grade because Henry's usually right about dates. So, okay, anyway, so I'll start at 10th grade since we're mentioning that. Um, so in 10th grade I started at a very small private school called Xavier educational like how to me where the majority of the classes are online, but you go to a school location and they have like tutors interact with. So okay, tell them about being Dengue So in 2015, I went on a youth group trip and to Port Aransas, Texas, and a week later National Institutes of Health on tropical diseases and specifically, I think the West Nile and Dengue so he had a presumptive diagnosis of dengue fever, with all the symptoms and you're right that after Betsy Furler 9:38 So we forgot Henry also to tell them that while all this was going on, you were very active in Boy Scouts. And you're also very active in the children's advisory board at Texas Children's so wanted to tell them a little bit about Boy Scouts because you had finished your Eagle before he had dengue Henry Furler 9:56 Let me finish with the dengue first Okay. to the National Institutes of Health because the disease had finished its progression and she couldn't report it it was tested too late yes um, and dengue of the Betsy Furler 10:33 pretty much for your lifetime after you get them dengue is one of those and that will come up later. And he also during the dengue he started having a lot a lot of severe dizzy spells and heart rate variations and breathing variations and was ultimately diagnosed with dysautonomia, so tell them a little bit about your extracurricular activities since your life wasn't awesome. Henry Furler 11:00 In the hospital, it seemed like it was. So a few years before I got dengue I became an Eagle Scout. Through the Boy Scouts of America, I built a cell phone charging station for the emergency Center at Texas Children's Hospital. And then I was on the children's advisory board at Texas Children's Hospital, which helped a lot with making the hospital more family pay family. Patient Centered Care is what they call it. Betsy Furler 16:01 All through your life really, although you've been really medically complex and sick so much, but the good thing about you, Henry is, if you're not in the hospital, you're pretty much living life as quote unquote normal. So, maybe dengue was awful, and then you develop the dysautonomia after it. And then two years ago, almost in November, on November on November of 2018, So much for being on my podcast for two episodes. Yes, I am glad that I got to share my story with all of your listeners. And if somebody wants to reach out to you to get more information or find out more about you, how can they find you? My email again is jhenryfurler@gmail.com. Thank you for being here, Henry. I love you so much. I'm so proud of you. I love you too. So, thanks for listening to my part two of my interview with my son Henry. And please like rate review, and subscribe and all of those things to my podcast on whatever podcast you're listening to this on. Please share the podcast and please follow me, Betsy Furler on LinkedIn and on Instagram at for all abilities on Facebook for all abilities, Twitter. Have a listen to for all abilities, the podcast and please subscribe on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to for all abilities the podcast. This is your host Betsy Furler. And today we are talking about talking with someone who has succeeded so exceptionally despite a lot of challenges. Frequently we talk to people with different types of neurodiversity like autism, ADHD, dyslexia and learning differences or with people with physical challenges, and today I am talking to my son for part two His medical story and medical challenges. So part one talks about kind of birth three Middle School. And part two, we are starting with his high school years. So welcome back to the show, Henry. Henry Furler 1:40 that was a mess. Betsy Furler 1:42 And he had had we also forgot to say that he had a vagal nerve stimulator implanted, which is an implantable device, almost like a pacemaker for your brain, right? Henry Furler 1:51 Yes, that within. That was at the beginning of eighth grade. Betsy Furler 1:56 But yet your seizures persisted. It has helped over time Yours at your Caesars Caesars persisted. So for ninth grade you are home. And do you remember why what were we what we were getting ready for Henry Furler 2:09 for that fall? I do not. We were Betsy Furler 2:11 getting ready for the ketogenic diet. Oh, yes. So tell them about starting the ketogenic diet. Henry Furler 2:17 So when we first decided that we were going to do the ketogenic diet, and we went to the hospital and talked to the doctors, they were adamant that I would not follow the diet completely, because I was a teenager, and they were wrong. Betsy Furler 2:36 So I said, Henry is like the most compliant person on the face of the earth, even if he is a teenager. So why don't we just try it? So we actually changed hospitals. Remember, we had to change Henry Furler 2:48 we moved from the Texas Children's Hospital to children's Memorial Hermann. Betsy Furler 2:53 Yep. So we had to change. neurologists made a new neurologist and then she got him started on the diet. So tell him about that. fat. Henry Furler 3:01 So it's an interesting diet, lots of mayonnaise, butter, olive oil, um, you have to measure all of your food in you have to weigh all of the food, and it's very time consuming. And we did it for almost five years. Betsy Furler 3:23 So for the first like two or three months, I think I made almost all your meals. Remember, we used all those little recipes or those little things that we had to follow and measure to wait a 10th of a gram. And then you took over, learn to cook started cooking all sorts of super interesting keto things, and it did help them with it did help with your seizures after when you start the diet. Henry Furler 3:50 Like my mom said, for the first what is it three to four months I think you have to do everything very very specific and you have to weigh everything no carbs at all. And then after that you can start transitioning into the more relaxed where you don't have to weigh anything, weigh everything, but I'm still a lot of oil and drinking olive oil, which is not the best thing to do with olive oil please Betsy Furler 4:27 and eating Manet she got a you liked eating man a straight? Henry Furler 4:31 Yes. Betsy Furler 4:32 Mayonnaise is delicious and heavy cream, lots of heavy cream. Henry Furler 4:35 Yes. But you can mix things with heavy cream. So Betsy Furler 4:38 that's true. And so you kept on that and you did well and then in 10th grade Well, you had a couple of hospitalizations, several hospitalizations on getting the keto kind of settled in your body. Because you had refeeding syndrome. Remember, like prisoner Have war have when you're fed, again because of the effects of the keto, and then some hospitalizations for illnesses and seizures and all the regular stuff for us. And then in 10th grade, you got really, really sick. And, and tell them about that. Unknown Speaker 5:20 So Henry Furler 5:23 around Or mentors that are actual teachers. I'm there to help you with all of the assignments. So the assignments are online. And for the majority of the classes and they're graded, and outside of the school, that's how Betsy Furler 6:17 it was done then yeah, now it's a little different Henry Furler 6:20 yet now they have actual teachers, um, and quite a few of my classes while I was there had actual teachers I'll mention that in a minute. Um, but, um, because you could work at your own pace at that school that worked very well with my medical issues at the time. Betsy Furler 6:43 Henry didn't really like being homebound and ninth grade and being homeschooled. He was homebound through the school district, but I also homeschooled him or he homeschooled himself, but he really likes the input of other teachers and peers. So Xavier worked really well for that and it was nice and flexible. Henry Furler 7:01 I loved the majority of my classmates as well my graduating class was I think 10 or 11 students. I loved the majority of them. There were a few that were a little difficult, difficult to I started having some really bad symptoms, my body would be aching a lot. Betsy Furler 7:43 So you had a severe headache behind your eyes here you can tell that he had a severe headache behind his eyes, severe body aches and was very weak. And so we ended up going to the into the emergency room they thought he had meningitis. So they did a spine They'll tap on you with no anesthesia. Um, and they he was admitted, because he was so sick. And after quite a few days in the hospital, he was they, they didn't really know what was wrong, but my husband saw something on TV about Dengue fever. And we were able to through our network contact a local woman who also happens to be a national authority on tropical diseases. So she actually came to see him after we got home. Henry Furler 8:34 She, she is a doctor and she is one of the national authorities with the Betsy Furler 8:58 the disease progresses To that point where you have bleeding under the skin, and bleeding and the GI tract, Henry Furler 9:06 I think, I think the the bruise was from an IV that I had at the hospital during the hospitalization and it stayed for over two weeks, even though there was no bleeding like from the IV, like they got it was a really good idea, actually. But the lady who came the National Authority who came to our house and did the test, she said, um, a week or so, later, she said, it's ding gang. It is to help children so that they don't feel scared in the hospital. Betsy Furler 11:39 And we learned a lot about things like we talked to the other kids and learn that they only gave people one chance of drawing blood. And we had been giving them three chances. And we realized that the error in our ways and we went to the one chance because if they don't get it on the first chance that they're probably not going to get it right. So you also were inquiring Middle School. Shut up, shout out to Mr. bola. Henry Furler 12:02 Let me say something else about the Texas Children's advisory board. So there were a lot of fun things that I did with the children's advisory board one time. We tried new foods from the kitchen at the hospital and rated the foods and they were actually all really good. The food at Texas Children's is actually really good. Another thing, if any, but if any of you know of radio lollipop that some hospitals some children's hospitals have, we went to the hospital one night and we did like a children's advisory board takeover of the radio station and that was a lot of fun. Um, we have like a little day trip every year to celebrate the end of the children children's advisory board year and that was we did a lot of fun things and where are we now with the Betsy Furler 13:04 choir. So I think that he did children's advisory board for like eight years, like from 11 to 19. Okay and then choir just say just give a shout out to Mr. bola Henry Furler 13:16 shout out to Mr. bola for directing the linear middle school choir and for doing all those awesome trips with the choir we went to Disney World twice. It was a fun school trip to Disney World. And then we went to Fiesta Texas in San Antonio once Betsy Furler 13:34 and one of the benefits of having a medically complex child is you get to go on all the trips because they get kind of scared of him and so I get to go and I don't know maybe the next time you go on a trip you might go by yourself finally because you're 22 now but anyway, I like having you there with me. Through all the school trips, I got to go even if they already had enough chaperones. They'd either kick somebody off to let me go or does add me as an extra. So that was fun. He also did the the geology thing. Henry Furler 14:10 Yes. When I throughout the time that I was in high school, I did a G a series of geology field trips through the University of Texas at Austin. They have a program called geo force, Texas. And we did a series of professional college level and geology trips. A lot of my education actually since about fifth grade has been a college level staff, but presented so that a a middle schooler, or mostly high schoolers, it was like, it was like, I've been taking AP classes basically since I was in fifth grade. But um those trips were like college classes. And they were a lot of fun because we go to a lot of different places one year, we went to Padre Island and Puerto ramzes. And we went out and we took like an open ocean like boat and they let us swim in the ocean and a shark actually brushed my foot. It was a little scary but fine. We went to Utah, Montana and Idaho I think the last year and we went to go see I get Yellowstone and Yosemite mixed up all the time. It's the one with the big geyser. I think that's Yellowstone. Betsy Furler 15:46 So that was really fun. And I didn't go on the trips, but I went to the location and hung out just to make sure that he was okay. And so we so we you got to do a lot of fun stuff. you had or there earlier in that month, you'd had a little cold. And then about a week after that, you got the flu shot. And then a week after that, you want me to tell the story or you want to have it a week after that. Henry Furler 16:48 I kept being what we thought were frontal lobe seizures, they call I think they call them focal seizures now, and that would look like temper tantrums For a few months before that, Betsy Furler 17:04 really years but they've gotten progressively worse and we thought you had Pam's and tell them what pan's is because I always get it wrong. Henry Furler 17:12 That's the pediatric autoimmune, neurological, something, Betsy Furler 17:22 something like that. Anyway, we thought that he had that and then in November, I came home, our washer and dryer both broke that day. And so I Henry had had a seizure that morning, and then went into a catatonic state, he'd been having progressively more seizures and more strange behavior. But that morning in particular, he had a grand mal seizure. And then later in the day, he went into a catatonic state and our washer and dryer both broke, I ran to the store to buy a washer and dryer, and when I got home, he met me at the car with his backpack gone and said we have to go to the emergency room. There's something wrong with me. So we went and in the emergency room he went into a psychotic event and, and also started seizing and was very aggressive. Do you remember any of that? No. So they put him in scrubs like they would for a psychiatric patient. And then I convinced I and our wonderful nurse Lacey, and convinced them that it was medical because he was having so many seizures. So they did not put them on the psych ward, which is such a blessing because had they have done that it would have been really hard to get the medical testing that we needed. And it's a very long complicated story, which we might have to have a whole separate podcast for someday, but the short version of the of it is that he ended up having autoimmune encephalitis. Henry Furler 18:55 If any of you have seen brain on fire The movie with what's her name? Susanna Callahan. Um, her story. It's basic, it's it talks about the autoimmune encephalitis Betsy Furler 19:15 so you were having delusions and you are very, very scared and you are responding to that with being very aggressive and only certain people could be around you or touch you. So I was one of those people and Lacey was one of those people. And then as you got transferred to a different hospital there, there would be nurses here and there that you were okay with them touching you, but if someone would come at you or be confrontational at all, you got very aggressive and very upset and very scared. And like you wanted to flee and you were paranoid and it was horrible, horrible, horrible, and then your Henry Furler 19:59 There were points before November, where when did we go to the wedding reception in Tyler? Betsy Furler 20:09 That was right before that, Henry Furler 20:10 Okay, um, when we got home when we were driving home, we passed No offense to anybody if they are a member of this faith but we passed at Jehovah's Witnesses meeting house and I thought that they were coming after me. And before that when my mom would be driving me back to school, I think that was for the spring semester. Betsy Furler 20:41 So you went off to southwestern University and Georgetown taxes and you lived on campus for two years. And towards the end you got really so you are having a lot of separation anxiety Henry Furler 20:53 when she would drive me up when she drove me up to the school for the spring semester. I was crying I didn't want to go back and I was having a lot of that separation anxiety. And one of the another one of the big symptoms of the autoimmune encephalitis is I'm trouble writing or reading and I basically stopped reading because it would hurt my eyes and I just couldn't understand what was going on. And when I looked back on some of my writing from that time, the letters would be, they wouldn't be wrong, but I like would squish them together. So there would be like an a and an E squished together and into a very small space. They weren't, they were distinguishable. But they were very squished together kind of like a cursive but no fanciness Betsy Furler 21:50 and he really went after the psychotic event in the hospital and he remained in the neuro ICU and he's lost His ability to read completely at that time lost his ability to write his balance got very, very, very poor, and he was unable to swallow safely. He was aspirating when he swallowed. I at that point stepped in and told the doctors that I thought thought it was autoimmune encephalitis. And they told me to go back in the room and be a mom and stop being so smart. But they ultimately did start testing him for it and as I said, is a really long story, which we probably need a whole separate episode on. We could probably do a whole podcast itself on it. We ultimately through really through my advocacy and my mama bear ness. He finally ended up being diagnosed it took the several months, Henry Furler 22:44 this specialty doctor at Texas Children's that we saw one appointment with, we walked in, he looked at our history, I think there were four doctors in the room. First, the they all looked at the history, I think before we got They're the psychologist who was the psychiatrist who was there. We walked in, she said hello to us. She said, I've looked at your history, it's not psychiatric and she walked out. And the specialty doctor for autoimmune encephalitis said, that's what this is. Betsy Furler 23:19 And at the time, he was on very, very high dose steroids when I got convinced them kind of that it was autoimmune encephalitis. And they put him on very, very high dose steroids and which caused a lot of other issues and also hospitalizations for blood pressure and all sorts of things because the results of the steroids but they slowly started work, they really helped tremendously, the very beginning, but he still had a lot of swelling in his brain and a lot of issues and still lost a lot of time. And then ultimately, tell them me what she finally started the treatment with. We started the ibig Or what is it? intravenous immunoglobulin treatments? Last August? It's been about a year. Henry Furler 24:09 Yes. Um, and they have I don't know why we haven't been doing that forever now. They've basically made my life like all my it's treated all of my health issues basically. Betsy Furler 24:26 Yeah, so now he's like 95% back right from that I mean encephalitis, his allergies Henry Furler 24:32 will ever get to 100 but I'm good with 95 Betsy Furler 24:35 allergies are better, seizures are better, everything is better. You hardly ever have dizziness. And, um, you're in your senior year of college now. So it's gonna be a super senior. So Henry Furler 24:47 I've been in college for five years, Betsy Furler 24:49 but he's only been in college for five years. He's gone to five different schools took one semester completely off and he's only done one summer of work for schools. Henry Furler 25:00 Southwestern University of St. Thomas. St. Constantine, the College of St. Constantine and Betsy Furler 25:08 H nhcc. Oh, five schools. So he's amazing. So since my my big thing is accommodations, tell them what accommodations you have in college, Henry Furler 25:20 I have a lot of extended time accommodations, and extra, I think one of them is like extra time with the professors if I need it. And I'm deferred. I think one of them is the deferred testing. So if I need to move the test to another day or if I need extended time for a due date, because a lot of my my entire anthropology degree program is online, which is something they offer for anybody but it works really well with my health issues. And also the school is like an hour from our house. We don't have to drive there. But um, all of those accommodations, the professors are very good with them. And the professors are nice anyway. And, um, during the regular school year, it's easy because the online classes, it's a lot more about. Um, I want to say it's about reading and the content. There aren't a lot of assignments, discussions on online discussion boards. And it's all spread out over the week. But over the summer, the first half of the summer, I took three classes that were only five weeks, and that's one whole semester of classes squished into one third of the time, and I got two A's and a B on those classes. So Betsy Furler 26:51 yeah, so you're doing great in school. I'm so proud of you. My Henry Furler 26:55 GPA right now is I think 3.6 Betsy Furler 26:58 Yeah. So So We're almost out of time, but tell everybody what you what your plan is after you graduate next May Henry Furler 27:06 a go to school for graduate school, and I hope to do Holocaust and genocide studies. All not all at the same time. Not all three of these at the same time I should confirm because Holocaust and genocide studies is one degree museum studies and World War two studies Betsy Furler 27:26 because you're very interested in empathy based curriculum around Holocaust and genocide studies, right? Henry Furler 27:33 Yes, if anybody has heard of facing history and ourselves, that's a an empathy and understanding based curriculum for English on the social social sciences that helps students understand each other as well as understand historical events. Betsy Furler 27:52 And you've done so much containing add on Holocaust and genocide studies. It's incredible. So, Henry, thank you. So Betsy Furler or far for all abilities, and also I have a special LinkedIn group that is all about connecting people who were involved in technology for people with disabilities and digital accessibility. So if you connect with me on LinkedIn, I would be happy to include you in that group. Thanks so much for listening, and I will talk to you soon. Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to us on. If you'd like to know more about what we do in our software that helps employers support their employees with ADHD dyslexia, learning differences in autism, please go to www dot for all abilities.com You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler. It's f as in Frank. You are le Have a great day and we will see you soon.
For All Abilities – The Podcast Henry Furler Part One For this episode of For All Abilities: The Podcast, I got to talk with one of my very favorite people. I interviewed my son, Henry Furler! Henry and I talk about the life threatening medical problems (including epilepsy, dysautonomia, autoimmune disease, autoimmune encephalitis) that he has faced throughout his life and how he has succeeded despite all the challenges. To connect with Henry, please follow him on LinkedIn (Henry Furler) or email him at jhenryfurler@gmail.com. Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome to for all abilities the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Have a listen to for all abilities, the podcast and please subscribe on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Hi, everybody, welcome to the for all abilities podcast. This is your host Betsy Furler. And I'm so glad you're here. This podcast talks about the amazing things people are doing with brains and bodies that may be different from the norm. Often we talk to people when they're diversity and today I have a very, very, very special guest with me. I know I always say that my guests are special and they all are but today is the most special of all. Special guests. I have my son Henry Furler. With me today. Hi, Henry. Hello. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad to be here. Henry, I want you to tell my audience about your life as a little boy. So tell us what you were like as a little boy. And we can weave in areas of your diagnosis. So, all start, I guess by telling the audience that you were sick from the moment of conception. I had a very rough pregnancy. And when you were born, you had a hard time and had a blue spell when you were about 24 hours old. Where you stopped breathing. We were still in the hospital. And you also had to be re hospitalized for three weeks because you couldn't gain weight, then you had apnea then you had seizures at about three months. And but you are an amazing, very smart baby, despite all of your medical challenges, so why don't you take it from where you remember and about three or four years old. The other thing my audience has to know is that Henry has an amazing memory. And he remembers things even from when he was really tiny. So tell the audience about what you were like as a little boy. Henry Furler 2:26 I remember being very energetic and loving to learn new things. And I remember a lot but it's usually usually specific thing, little memories, little memories. Betsy Furler 2:42 What were your favorite things to do when you were like really little like two to four years old. Henry Furler 2:47 I liked to go to museums and go out to places where I could learn new things I loved watching Arthur on TV and watching other PBS Kids shows that most kids Wouldn't be watching. Um, we watched a lot of Forensic Files on Discovery Channel. A, you can explain why we watched. Betsy Furler 3:14 We watched a lot of Forensic Files when we're in the hospital and he also loved Ancient Egypt. Henry Furler 3:18 Yes, I did. I've loved history and social studies since I was little and that has influenced my future. career path. I'm currently getting a degree in anthropology from the University of Houston at Clear Lake. Betsy Furler 3:35 So, um, you were in the hospital a lot, even as a very little kid. What do you remember about being in the hospital when you were little? Henry Furler 3:45 I remember that it wasn't. It wasn't fun. But, um, the nurses and the people who would come to visit me tried to make it more interesting and I remember being in the hospital as a, I guess you could describe it as more of a joyous experience. I remember when I was little, I had one at one point I had an ID in my foot. And I would be taken around in a little wagon and we would go around the hospital and they had little play areas. And, um, I remember at one point, my dad brought window markers to the hospital, and we would draw on the windows in my room and have the, the window that went out to the hallway. Betsy Furler 4:40 So a lot of people think kids are really scared in the hospital, but you were usually not scared there when you were little. Henry Furler 4:46 No, I've had a lot of experiences in the hospital and even when I was little. If kids have been in the hospital a lot, they may still be scared of the doctors in the hospital, but I was never scared of the hospital. Betsy Furler 5:02 And you may not remember but I started teaching you when you were two to know which medications you were supposed to be taking, and kind of what they looked like and what the names were. So you were able to tell the nurse if they gave you the wrong medicine. So that was really different than most little tiny kids on the hospital. Henry Furler 5:21 That's something that I still do. I always ask the nurses to show me the medicines and to show me what they brought to the room doing the ibig. Actually, I think I don't have to ask them because they always show it to me beforehand. So Betsy Furler 5:37 So what kind of school did you go to an elementary school? A lot of people think that if you have lots and lots of seizures and other medical issues that you have academic problems. So tell my audience a little bit about your academic experience. Henry Furler 5:50 When I was in elementary school, I'm in kindergarten, I went to a normal school. It wasn't Specifically gifted and talented but I was classified as gifted and talented there. And then starting in first grade, I went to a gifted and talented and IB primary years program, school that was very diverse and taught about a lot of different things that focused on how we can connect things in the world. And I feel like my education there was more. I'm trying to think of how to explain it. I'm thorough, even though we didn't focus on specific, fixed subjects all the time. So the things that we would focus on would be themes or topics, and we would focus on those for a few weeks. And the normal subjects like math, science, social studies, and English would be woven in to that. So there was no like math time or science time, there was there were themes and we would weave those subjects into that. Betsy Furler 7:12 So in elementary school, you may not know this, but you were classified as special ed as well as gifted and talented, near classified as special ed because of your, your medical issues. So tell the audience what kind of accommodations you got in elementary school, if you remember. Henry Furler 7:29 I don't really remember you thinking any accommodations other than the extended testing time for standardized tests. I don't even know if I had that in elementary school. Betsy Furler 7:40 You did, but you didn't really need it. But what you needed was small group testing, more so if you had a seizure or something happened that you didn't disrupt a whole group of kids and you only disrupted a few kids, so it was easier for them to manage. You also had extended time for assignments and preferential seating although I don't know that you really Even needed that our class our class say Henry Furler 8:04 that our classes were very small anyway, the largest class I remember having an elementary school, I think was maybe 22 students, which is much smaller than a lot of elementary school classes these days, which can go up to 3032, or maybe more, which is, I think, is Betsy Furler 8:25 very big for an elementary school class. So you continue to have seizures and had some really severe allergies that caused you to go into anaphylaxis. And so, one time he had to have an ambulatory ECG, which to my audience, that means it's a test that looks at your brainwaves, and they put on all the electrodes on your head and if it's ambulatory, it means walking around. So it's something that you can go about your daily life with. Now, most people when they do ambulatory, Eg they just stay at home. But did you stay at home with your ambulatory ECG? Henry Furler 9:03 No, I was in second grade and I went to school every day that I have the ambulatory ECG on. A lot of the kids were actually very intrigued by the ambulatory ECG, they didn't make fun of me or anything. My school was very accepting of every pretty much everything they would ask me and I would explain to them that it was looking at my brain and how my brain was working. Betsy Furler 9:31 Do you remember that every year we talk to your class about your medical problems? I do. Um, Henry Furler 9:40 it got a lot more complicated to explain those things to the class as as time progressed, because we would find out more and more things. And I believe we stopped doing that when I started Middle School. Betsy Furler 9:57 And the the greatest thing about that That and why I can encourage other parents to do that is because your friends that you went to elementary school with to this day are some of your best advocates and friends and one of them even went to college with you when you lived in the dorm. And she was so aware of everything that was going on with you. And I was so concerned and such a great friend. So let's talk about Middle School a little bit. So after elementary school and you were so taken care of at River Oaks Elementary, I know, there was one time that I had to be a little firm with them because they wanted to take away your special ed dead designation, because you were so smart. But I wouldn't let them do that because you remained having the medical problems and we never knew what was going to happen or how much school you might have to miss. And we needed to preserve that. So you couldn't get kicked out of the magnet program. So what happened in Middle School. Henry Furler 11:01 When I start right before I started Middle School, I'll start with this. I started having a lot of anaphylaxis ik reactions, which were eventually attributed to something called colon ergic. urticaria, with anaphylaxis, and I missed a lot of days of actually, it only happened a few times before we started on the prescription medicine to work with that, but a few times I had anaplastic reaction that school and I had to be taken to the emergency room. Betsy Furler 11:33 And that's called an Arctic Arctic area with anaphylaxis is basically a, an A anaplastic reaction, or a severe allergic reaction to your own sweat. So he would sweat and then he would swell up and have an anaplastic reaction. Henry Furler 11:50 There's an episode of The Simpsons where Milhouse lists a lot of things that he's allergic to. And at the end, he says, and I'm allergic to my own tears. And just so you know, that can actually happen. So, Betsy Furler 12:05 yeah, so so you had all of those allergy things going and then in sixth grade you had a video eg that I thought was going to show you weren't having seizures. And it turns out you were having seizures every 10 minutes, but they were small, what they call petite mall or ops on seizures. So you had those in sixth grade but I don't think they affected you too much at school right? Henry Furler 12:30 No, I did very well in sixth grade. I didn't have to go to PE because of the cool energetic urticaria but um, which now I kind of regret going to PE not going to PE I feel like that's an experience for children in school all by itself. But my son terrible for some people. Um, but yes, I did very well throughout middle school. I'm trying to think of other things to say about sixth grade. Uh, it was good. Um, yeah, I think that's it. There's not a lot of, Oh, I had a lot of teachers that I really loved. We still keep in touch with a lot of them that that I met throughout my middle school experience. Betsy Furler 13:24 Yeah, your middle school was great and it was also a gifted and talented magnet with IB. Henry Furler 13:30 The middle years program starts in Betsy Furler 13:32 sixth grade. And in seventh grade though, we tell my audience what started happening in seventh grade. Henry Furler 13:40 I started having a lot more seizures when I was in seventh grade, um, maybe about once a week, and they were they were the grand mal seizures, but they would happen so fast that it looks like they were what would be called by some people drop seizures, Betsy Furler 13:58 right and you have to start with wearing a helmet because you had a couple of concussions. Henry Furler 14:02 I started wearing the helmet in eighth grade, maybe about halfway through eighth grade. And what was Betsy Furler 14:08 it like wearing a helmet in middle school? Henry Furler 14:11 Oh, people with the school loved it. They wouldn't make fun of me but they'd give me they'd asked me about it just like when I had the ambulatory eg and they'd give me stickers to put on the helmet and it was fine. Betsy Furler 14:25 And everybody signed it like they would sign a cast. Henry Furler 14:27 Yes, they did. We got metallic Sharpie markers and they would sign it and it was a skateboard helmet. When you think of someone with seizures wearing a helmet, you may think of those a soft kind of like, entire foamy entire head covering helmets, but my dad insisted that we get a cool skateboard helmet. And the doctors that proved that. They said that that would be just as good as the foam helmet. And we did that. Betsy Furler 15:02 So at this point, we didn't really know what was wrong. We had thought that you had a fatty acid oxidation defect, when you're really little, and then we thought it was another disorder of metabolism. And that never could none of that could be proven. So, around that time we went to the Cleveland Clinic, we'd already been to the Mayo Clinic, which you enjoyed right. And, and he saw our wonderful doctor, Dr. Buckley at the Mayo Clinic and then we followed him to Pittsburgh Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh, and then in about eighth grade, we went to see Dr. COVID Dr. Marvin dito Vich at the Cleveland Clinic, and once you tell my audience about that experience, so Henry Furler 15:51 we went to see this doctor at the Cleveland Clinic and he sat with us for about six hours. I think that's Seven and a half, I think, Okay. And about halfway through the appointment. He had gone to the restroom or something. And he walked in and he said, I know what's wrong. And we were so excited. And he said, Henry is an alien. And then we're like, Unknown Speaker 16:19 yes. He said, it's the only Betsy Furler 16:21 POS that's the only logical explanation for this. Henry Furler 16:26 And we were like, yeah, that has to be it. And then um, that's the rest of the appointment was pretty normal, but he ordered a skin biopsy. And we did the skin biopsy the same day that we were leaving on the airplane, which is not a good time to do a major procedure like that. And they did it without any anesthesia Betsy Furler 16:55 entered two samples. Henry Furler 16:57 Yes, they did. Betsy Furler 16:59 So the first one was wasn't as bad because you didn't know what was coming. Yes. So after we saw Dr. Neto Vich we really hung on to the alien thing. And we decided that I'm the alien. My husband is an earth lane. And Henry is half alien half Earth ln, and that's why he has so many medical problems. We decided that he was right that Dr. nitobe, which was right, and that was the only possible explanation. So Henry, I think we're going to stop here. And for now, and we'll grant it we're going to do a part two. Henry Furler 17:33 Okay, Betsy Furler 17:34 so if you want to contact Henry and, Henry, I always do this at the end of my podcast. So tell tell the people with the best contact for you as Henry Furler 17:44 well. If you want to contact me, you can email Betsy Furler 17:47 so and your email Henry Furler 17:49 It is jhenryfurler@gmail.com Betsy Furler 17:59 so Thanks, Henry for being on this part one, and in it and then we'll do a part two with the rest of the story. Thank you audience for tuning in. As always, I appreciate it so much, please like rate review this podcast on whatever podcast platform you're listening on. And please tune in next time for the rest of this story of Henry. Good bye for now. Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to a song. If you'd like to know more about what we do in our software that helps employer support their employees with ADHD dyslexia, learning differences in autism, please go to www dot for all abilities.com You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler f as in Frank You are le AR Have a great day and we will see you soon. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Thirty Four - Isabelle Stahrfisher - Surviving and Thriving with Mitochondrial Myopathy In this episode, I interview Isabelle Stahrfisher- recent college graduate and graduate school student. On the podcast, Isabelle and I discuss her early years with a serious chronic illness (mitochondrial myopathy), her strengths and interests and her college experience. We also discuss her dreams for future employment. To connect with Isabelle, please go to her Facebook page (Isabelle Stahrfisher) or e-mail her at i.stahrfisher@tcu.edu. Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome to for all abilities, the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Have a listen to for all abilities, the podcast and please subscribe on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Hi, everybody, welcome back to for all abilities, the podcast. This podcast is all about talking to people with different types of nerve diversity and other disabilities who are doing great things in this world. And today I have a special guest and her name is Isabel Starr Fisher and I've known about Isabel for almost her whole life. I think her mom and I met when she was three years old. She's around the same age as my son Henry. So I'm really excited that she was willing to be on the podcast today. Welcome, Isabel. Hi. Isabelle Stahrfisher 1:11 I'm so excited to be here. Betsy Furler 1:13 Awesome. If you could just introduce yourself and tell my audience a little bit about what you're doing currently. Isabelle Stahrfisher 1:19 Okay, um, well, I am a recent 2020 graduate, I graduated with my degree in communication and my minor in creative writing. And I have a physical disability, mitochondrial disease. I'm a ambulatory wheelchair user and I have chronic illness and all that extra good stuff. So, in college, I focused a lot of my research in my writing about people with disabilities, and I'm about to start my graduate program with a focus in telling people disability stories. Wow, that's awesome. Betsy Furler 2:00 Well, I'm so excited you're here. And I would love for you to tell my audience about what you were like as a little girl. I think you were diagnosed fairly young in life. So you may not remember that, but kind of what were you like, what was school like in those early years for you? Isabelle Stahrfisher 2:17 So when I was little, like you said, I was diagnosed really young, so I really don't remember the pre diagnosis period. But my kind of story is actually kind of weird because I was born really sick, which then helps me get a diagnosis, which then helped my siblings get a diagnosis, and then we all got treatment. We kind of stabilized. So yes, we had to do feeding pumps at night and we had to do some different treatments, but we're very active. I did competitive dance for several years. And we did bowling. We are homeschool to just try to limit interaction with others when it came to getting second stuff, but other than that, we lived pretty normal lives. And all three of us had it. So it didn't really feel any different to me. And so I just remember the first time I went to MBA camp, and that's kind of the first time I really started realizing that, like, yes, my whole family's weird, and this is kind of my normal, but also it's other people's normal. They have slightly different versions. And I remember being seven years old and my parents sitting down at the table at Camp like okay, this is how you say, mitochondrial myopathy, and I'm just struggling through that word. Um, but yeah, that was really the first time I was kind of realized, I guess that other people have disabilities that are similar but also not similar. And we all kind of experience it in different ways. And that was really exciting for me. Betsy Furler 4:04 Yeah campus so wonderful. Henry loved going to camp as well. He left the camp. And but it is amazing that a seven year old can even like know the word mitochondrial, because most adults don't even know that word. Isabelle Stahrfisher 4:21 So yeah. But my mom will talk about it. And I was generally just like decided the three of us also the oldest. So like, I had the responsibility of being the oldest and then I didn't have a lot of energy to do anything else. So we'll talk about stories, especially my sister was always getting into trouble and stuff. And I'm like, Well, where's my trouble stories and my mom's like, you're spending all your energy trying to make sure that your sister didn't kill herself doing something stupid. So, um, but yeah, that was kind of my childhood. And I really took to Reading and things that I could do on my downtime that preserved my energy for other things like dance that I really cared about. Betsy Furler 5:09 Well, and I think if I remember correctly, you had a lot of hospitalizations when you were super little, but then not so many. When you were probably the ages that you remember. Isabelle Stahrfisher 5:20 Yeah. I had a few hospitalizations, for surgeries. I remember the surgeries more than I remember being sick. And several ER visits. But I think in my memory, my siblings had more hospital visits for being sick and like being admitted, then I do in my, my memory period. Yeah, I know that several early on. Betsy Furler 5:45 So then when you once you graduated from high school, and as you said, you were homeschooled. And so when you went off to college, that was really your first time to be in a, I guess organized school in a traditional school environment. I guess I should call it Isabelle Stahrfisher 6:00 I'm kind of I did co ops. And so I had, I took classes at different places. And they were generally taught by college professors were also parents. So it was kind of like a school system. I went to university model school my senior year, and took a couple math classes. They're so similar. But yeah, college is the first time that I had, like, a strict system, which was really different. And then also being away from my family for the first time was really different. And then I had a whole bunch of health issues that first year that made it really difficult. And so that it's really interesting to me that like that first year, I think of this like the first year, or I'm trying to figure out independence, but it wasn't until I transferred back home because of my health issues, that I started learning what true independence was and that was when I was having to Be more dependent on my family than I ever wanted to be making my own decisions while at home. And I right now, even though my health issues continue to kind of get worse, I feel the most independent that I've ever done. I've got really strict boundaries for the most part with my family when they helped me and like, if I'm in my wheelchair, I need help being pushed like, you can't push in places that I don't want to go. That's not okay. And having those discussions about boundaries is something that I've learned is really important in maintaining my independence. Betsy Furler 7:37 Yeah, that is that's really important, especially with sibling relationships. That's a really, that's so important. So when did you did you have accommodations when you went off to college? Did they provide accommodations and what kind of accommodations Did you need academically or living accommodation, you know, accommodations to your living question. Isabelle Stahrfisher 8:01 So I didn't become a wheelchair user until 2017. So my first year, I got accommodations, but they were, I was allowed to use a computer for note taking. I think if I remember correctly, I had professors who wouldn't let me do that. And then I also was allowed. extended time, maybe I just know I had a whole list of accommodations. And then several professors who wouldn't give me the accommodations Unknown Speaker 8:33 as well. Isabelle Stahrfisher 8:34 Yeah, super frustrating I had, or at least not, it wasn't that they wouldn't give me the accommodations, they just would like, Okay, well, if you're going to use a computer, then you have to sit here and it has to be in the front of the room, or it has to be in the back of the room and it has to do this and you have to do that and I really don't trust you and I really don't trust that you're not going to be doing other things which is really frustrating. As I was trying to get all this stuff figured out so I'm trying to learn when and how I was going to take notes really difficult process and really frustrating because I didn't have the energy to fight them. And I didn't want to fight them I was this freshmen kid was like, I don't know how to fight my professor for accommodations when they're really not inclined to give it to me and the school didn't have the, the system to really fight for me either. So it was just a really frustrating process that I kind of learned how to accommodate for myself. Whenever Betsy Furler 9:41 that's when it's I think there is often a problem with accommodations is even if a school will say like, here's your list of accommodations frequently, it's too many. You know, like it's a bunch of accommodations that they just kind of generically Give to everyone with the similar disability. And then when professors put all sorts of criteria around your accommodations, it's kind of because it kind of defeats the purpose, you know, because then it makes it actually it's actually a, it impedes your ability to use your accommodations, if you know that they're putting all this stipulation around there. So that's something I worry about both in education and in the workforce, you know, in an employment setting, and when someone has accommodations, so would you I know you then transferred, so when you transferred back home, how was that different? Isabelle Stahrfisher 10:37 Um, well, it was different in a couple different ways. When I transferred back home, I actually ended up going to the school that my mom works at, and that kind of gave me the ability like if I was able to drive that my mom is able to drive me to school, but for the accommodation system, I really didn't have much luck. And the accommodations at my new school even though it was bigger and should have had more resources to help me, which actually has been a big conversation at the university recently about how poorly their accommodations go. And I had a lot of issues with my pediatric nurse who was in charge of getting all of the paperwork for the accommodations to my new school that she had sent to my previous school. And she would, she kept refusing to send it and it was really frustrating. And then the schools like, well, if you don't have paperwork, then I'm not really sure that you have to have these accommodations. And then when I became a wheelchair user, I was invited to go to a women's leadership retreat and when I signed up for the Women's Leadership Retreat, I literally had just gotten my wheelchair so I was like, He is a wheelchair user, I really want to go to this, just so you know, I'm a wheelchair user, so please, but you know, this retreats going to be accessible or not because I can't be on certain types of ground because my smart drive won't work on that. And I got an email from the accommodations department's just chewing me out for not saying that I have a wheelchair and I'm like, but I don't live on campus. And all the classrooms should be accessible. So what's the problem? I was so upset. So after that, I just kind of stopped talking to them. I was like, I'm just gonna deal with this one on one with my professors, which luckily I was able to do for the most part, it was just kind of talked to the professors about what I needed, and just kind of had to figure things out myself. Betsy Furler 12:56 Yeah, that's, I think that's what ends up happening to a lot of People as you know, when it becomes such a so difficult even to get the accommodations, and I know, with my son Henry, who has a similar, you know, kind of a similar story. Mm hmm. Unknown Speaker 13:14 A lot of his accommodations are Unknown Speaker 13:18 medical. So it's Betsy Furler 13:20 your extended time and it's like, oh, he has a seizure. Well, they would give him extra time anyway, right. Sometimes the paperwork doesn't if it's so hard to get it doesn't it's not helping. It's not worth it. What about where have you worked in the past? And what is it been like at work? Isabelle Stahrfisher 13:37 So I worked a couple different things. I did some student teaching for high school in a drama department, which really wasn't any different. I kind of worked under my mom. So she was able to give me all the accommodations like Oh, do you can't climb the stairs today? Well, everyone's moving outside, and so I didn't have to do that. But my first real job is actually at my university, I worked in the advancement office, which is just kind of looking up who's passed away. So we stopped some sending the mail. And that process was interesting. I remember going to the interview. And this was before I got my wheelchair and I'm just kind of using mobility devices on and off. And I was like, I'm not using a mobility device. I'm not giving them any reason not to hire me. I'm not going to talk about potentially missing work. And I was so thankful that when I got there, I actually found out that my boss has or had an autoimmune disease. I no longer work there, but she had an autoimmune disease. And then her boss actually was a wheelchair user. So when I became a wheelchair user, they were all very and I got my wheelchair. They were Very nice. They were very understanding. I was calling my boss and like, Hey, I'm having a flare up. I just can't make it to work today. And she was really accommodating, which was incredible. It was kind of one of the first times that I had ever experienced that, especially since when I've been doing research. And I've been listening to all of my friends on my Facebook groups, and we're struggling with jobs, not accommodating them or finding other reasons to hire them. And having this job that was just like, okay, you can't come in this week. That's fine. Thanks for letting me know. And just please take care of yourself. So you can come back when you can. And that was incredible. Betsy Furler 15:43 Yeah, like a dream come true. Isabelle Stahrfisher 15:46 Yeah. It was, honestly a terrible job like, paid really poorly. But the people were amazing, which is why I stayed there for so long. And then I moved over to the Writing Center as a tutor, which was a lot less Understanding was the only disabled person that I knew of there. And it was I was really nervous about ever calling in sick. So I tried to limit that as much as possible on the way I approached, it was very different. I'm like, okay, here's these, you know, when you're constantly sick, you pick trigger words like throwing up, fever, you know, something that makes people not want you there, instead of having a flare up. And it it's a whole different process. And I loved my job there it was, was one of those situations where the work was better, but that experience was a lot harder. And that I'm about to start my like real big kid job as a graduate teaching assistant. I'll be teaching the basic communication course. And we are Supposedly allowed. I'm not sure how this is going to work, but we're supposedly allowed not to attend or not to be face to face for our classes, maybe passively. And that's really, that's giving me more anxiety than anything else this summer is just thinking about what is going to happen at school, when I try to go back in like, what if I can't go back? Because that's really scary. And just because, you know, there's these things that people do. That kind of just puts you in a corner of like, Oh, you can't be in person in class, and they'll treat you different. They say they don't, but you feel it because they'll be short with you or they're like, well, there's no excuse for that behavior. There's no excuse and like, but if I was in class, I couldn't do that. And so I actually a friend of mine, who's also has a disability, who's in the graduate program who texted me And she's like, So technically, we have the right to not come to the face to face class and just zoom in. Do you think that that's going to be okay? And I was like, honestly, I don't think I don't think it's going to be any different than it was before. If you don't show up to class in the face to face, if that's what everyone's doing, then people are going to, professors are not going to understand they're going to be upset because they don't like the accommodations anyway, so, and that depends on professor, but for the most part, especially people who aren't willing to kind of think about their initial reaction. That's pretty much what we face which is really disheartening. But I like to think of it as the idea that, like, I have a friend who also has a disability and the graduate program and we're both intending to go into research. We're both intending to be provided. So that once we can get past this we can then become professors are more understanding. Betsy Furler 19:05 Yeah, yeah. And chain kind of change the system. Wait, wait, how has the COVID stay at home order affected you? Isabelle Stahrfisher 19:14 Um, at first I was kind of laughing at it because I'm like, oh I don't go anywhere anyway because I just too tired to go out or and you know, I'm chronically ill introvert I don't need to go out in the world but it's I go back and forth on like how I personally reacting. I've helped more issues with how the world is reacting especially since I live in DFW and Dallas is gotten really bad and I've got all these people on Facebook who are just basically saying people who died from COVID are pretty much going to die if they got a cold anyway so they don't really matter. And I'm like, I've had friends and family pass away from The virus and it's real scary thing. I have friends. It's actually just talking to them yesterday about when are we going to choose to go to the ER or not? Because I'm like, is this pain? It's unimaginable pain, but is it worth putting ourselves at risk? To COVID? Because the pain might be really bad, but is it life threatening enough to outweigh the chance of getting COVID and subjecting our families to that, especially since several of us have siblings who also have the virus? We live with elderly people? Betsy Furler 20:39 Yeah, we have the same conundrum with Henry to where we are. We don't know. You know, it's like How bad is it have to get like just like you were saying it's, it's a hard that's a really hard thing. And I feel the same way where I, you know, hear people saying, Oh, I'm not gonna wear a mask because it doesn't do anything for me and it's like, but it does something for others. People in the world. And this has really shown I think everyone's true colors. What they're really like what you know, and what they really care about. And it's been a little disheartening at times. Isabelle Stahrfisher 21:15 Yeah, well, and it's, I keep thinking like keeps me going is honestly the thought that I'm a part of something called the disability issues committee or I can't remember the last word. Anyway, it's part of the national Communication Association Conference. And there's a whole bunch of researchers who either have disabilities who are doing research about disability studies or are doing research for one reason or another. Most everybody has a disability and that's why they do it. And I just keep thinking, there's going to be a lot of essays, there's going to be a lot of research that is going to come out of this, which we can address the overt ableism in our world. Hopefully that will get some kind of change. But we just have to be able to get to that point. Betsy Furler 22:08 Yeah, that's I'm so excited that you're doing that. And then your masters and everything, I think it's going to be great. And I think I think the tide is turning and I think this has been a really important time the lat really the last year, but even through COVID it's like I see more progress than I've ever seen before. So I'm glad you're joining the fight for everyone else too. And it's been great having you on the podcast today. I know some of my listeners are going to want to reach out and connect with you How is the best way for them to connect. Isabelle Stahrfisher 22:42 The best way to connect would probably be through my facebook or my TCU email, which is just I period star Fisher which is spelled us HR as I sh er@tcu.edu (i.stahrfisher@tcu.edu) I'm always welcome to taking emails from people I love to help. It may just take me a little bit to get back to people. But, and then my email or my Facebook, you can find me just pretty much looking at my last name. It's pretty unique that way. Betsy Furler 23:19 Awesome. Yeah. And I'll put all that in the show notes. So, thank you again so much for being here. You were a great guest. And I know that a lot of my listeners are gonna gain a lot of knowledge from you. Isabelle Stahrfisher 23:31 Okay, thank you so much for having me. It was really exciting. Betsy Furler 23:35 Yeah, and listeners, thank you so much for tuning in, please rate review, subscribe to the podcast on whatever podcast platform you're listening to this on. And if you want to know more about my consulting services, as well as my software that helps provide accommodations for employees with disabilities. You can find that at WWW dot for all abilities calm thanks. So much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to us on. If you'd like to know more about what we do in our software that helps employer support their employees with ADHD dyslexia, learning differences in autism, please go to www dot for all abilities calm. You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler f isn't Frank, you are le AR Have a great day and we will see you soon.
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Thirty Three - Becky Kekula - DisabilityIN/Advocating for Others and Yourself Part Two In this episode, I interview Becky Kekula of DisabilityIN. On the podcast, Becky continues talking life as a Little Person. We discuss her transition from a career in the film/tv industry into her work at DisabilityIN and the importance of advocacy. To connect with Becky, please follow her on LinkedIn (Becky Kekula) and visit her website at http://www.beckymotivates.com. Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome to for all abilities, the podcasts. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Unknown Speaker 0:33 Hi, everybody, welcome back to for all abilities the podcast. Today we're going to have the second part of my interview with Becky Kekla. Ireally hope I'm pronouncing her name right. That's so hard for me. Her main name is current so you may know her as Becky Curran. She currently works for disability in but she has has had such an amazing Betsy Furler 0:59 roller coaster career and just twists and turns, and she's a little person. And when we last left off, if you didn't listen to the other episode, you really should go back and listen to that. But when we left off and the first episode with her, she was still in college, she was about to graduate and she had gotten this awesome opportunity to be a stand in for an actor in a film that was being filmed in her college town. And unfortunately, the taping the filming of it conflicted with her college schedule, so she had to turn down that great opportunity, but it has led her to so many more interesting things. So please listen to Becky and I talking about her career and her life and how she has become such an advocate for people with all types of disabilities. Becky Kekula 1:55 And then after the summer, Unknown Speaker 1:57 I Becky Kekula 2:00 While in college I haven't really mentioned it yet, I decided that I wanted to learn more about being a part of the little people community. It was up until college that I really didn't have any other friends who were little people other than maybe some people we would see at the doctor every year. It wasn't very often where we'd see the same people every year. But if we got along with them, maybe we'd stay in touch as pen pals. But I was not really close to the community. And I think once my friends in high school started dating, the later years after my back surgery, and even in college, watching a lot of people dating and not really finding my place of where I fit in in those scenarios. I was convinced to go to a little people convention that was happening in the Boston area in 2003. And I ended up meeting friends from all over the country and continue to meet people from All over the world. I just like in any environment, you filter through those who you have similar values to and then there could be some that you have nothing in common with. But I had over the years while I was in college, gotten very close to a tight knit group of people who lived in Southern California. And I thought, Okay, this ties in nicely to my desire to work in the film industry. So while I was finishing the casting opportunity for the film underdog, I was networking out in out in Los Angeles, just remotely trying to figure out how to get myself out there, where I could really be in the deep parts of the industry. And one of my friends, he had a talent manager, he was an actor. He asked me if I wanted to come work with her and I thought, great, I'll go give it a try. Let's Let's do this. I learned about casting this summer. Now. When about talent management. And she also happens to be another little person. And I got out to LA, my parents, they wanted to support me as best they could. They made sure that before I moved to Los Angeles, I had a job and a place to live set up, because they weren't going to support me if I just was going out there without an agenda. So we have the job. I stayed with friends for a while, thought everything was set up. And the minute I got to LA, I found out that that job opportunity was not there. Wow, that I was going to have to start the search. on my own. I luckily had, I had already done some networking. I was networking with people who were alumni of Providence college who lives out in Los Angeles, and just anyone who lived out there and even had a connection to marketing in general, even if it wasn't film industry related. So I To take a bunch of coffee meetings, I ended up picking up a Hollywood creative directory where they had names and addresses of places. And I just started sending out resumes like crazy. I sent out 1000 resumes, and then went on 100 interviews, sometimes up to four interviews a day. And back to that constructive feedback piece. I wish if I went back to that time in my life, that people were more willing to tell me if I was making mistakes in the way that I interviewed. Or, of course, after four interviews a day I had to be exhausted by that fourth interview. And it just felt like kind of going through the motions without really getting any feedback. Other than we're going to hire internally, we're going into a different direction with this position. There was nothing ever of like you want to do this differently next time. So after about four months, I decided to go with some tech placement agencies, so I could have an honest conversation with these recruiters. And then they could pitch me to just go show up at a job. And that ultimately ended up being the best strategy because people couldn't tell me that I can't show up for the job that I'm told to show up for. Because the recruiter would be able to stand up for me and say, You have no real reason to tell them to go home. Betsy Furler 6:27 Right, right. Wow. It was a long process and you had so much work experience before you even graduated from Becky Kekula 6:37 Glee that's the thing I had to at least been qualified. I wasn't applying for like high level jobs. This these were very much entry level. You must have a few internship experiences under your belt, not anything that was like, way above like I was expecting this huge position. Unknown Speaker 6:56 Right? Right. Betsy Furler 6:59 So So what did you do after that? And then how did you finally get to disability em? Becky Kekula 7:08 So, so the reason why I do the work that I do now is because I don't want people to go through what I went through. Unknown Speaker 7:15 I, Becky Kekula 7:16 after about three temporary job assignments, I was at the Hallmark Channel for about a month, I worked at this place called trailer park where they make trailers for movies. for about three days, it was around the holiday season. So it wasn't really a specific job other than a gifting because everyone loves giving gifts to all their clients for the holidays. And at that, so this was the end of 2006. And I still didn't have anything secured and it was the middle of January that I finally showed up for my first day at Creative Artists Agency, a talent agency where I ended up working for five years, but it took seven months for me to become a full time employee I was on a temporary employee Up until those seven months and then finally felt like I made my mark to at least have my foot in the door out. After having to say okay, I need benefits like what's happening I'm showing up to work every day it was still a full time opportunity 97 five days a week, but it took a lot of proven myself to get that permanent position. And most assistant stay at an agency for about a year. They don't want to be an agent, they move on. But I just was holding on really tight to that employment opportunity for five years because I didn't know how hard it was going to be to find that next opportunity. And I was in the I started in that entertainment marketing department and then moved over the comedy touring department. And it was only because the marketing department was shifting, and I was kind of at risk if I chose to stay there, just because of purely numbers. It was just people were being moved around. So one of my bosses I had worked for two people. Once I became permanent, I was working for two people. And he brought me to the music department. And then I found out about the comedy department. And it reminded me of the work I did at allied where I went to the movie screenings and filled out what people were reacting to. I had the opportunity to go to comedy clubs, like sometimes I would go to four shows a night, where I would write notes. And these were shows that the agents couldn't get to. But they would be able to gather these notes and decide if they wanted to represent any of the talent that they haven't seen yet, so that they could ask me follow up questions. If there were people I thought were really talented. And once a position became available in that department, I was up for it since I'd been working really hard to contribute up until that point. And while I was in that department, I I enjoyed it. It was fun. To get gain an eye for talent, but I think I just decided after I got to that almost fifth year that being an agent wasn't really the lifestyle I wanted to have, even though it's very lucrative careers. It's very grueling. And I just didn't see myself in that long term career path. So I did start getting the attention of people who worked at the agency, and they asked me what it was I was passionate about. And that was a point where I felt like I could finally say that I was passionate about changing what we see in the media because that affects how people like me are treated in society. And took up until then, for me to be vocal about it because I wanted to be able to prove myself as a hard worker first. And since they started asking, I was able to put together a panel discussion of people with disabilities in front of and behind the scenes in the entertainment industry. I was able to use the theater at the industry. We're at the agency where about 160 people showed up to watch this panel discussion. So it's content people are craving. And it was really talking about the challenges on how we can make more opportunities for people with disabilities, how we can make sure there are more authentic portrayals versus people playing disability, even if it's not their lived experience. And yes, and Betsy Furler 11:25 I think that's so important, too. And I think it's so important that if, you know, if they do have to use an actor that doesn't have the disability, they're portraying that they are so careful about how that is that about the accuracy of it and the respectfulness of it? I'm super passionate about it as well, and that they try to cast roles with people with disabilities. Becky Kekula 11:51 Yes, so that's the thing. I think even when we talk about inclusion in corporate America, inclusion in the media, make sure that you're at least finding people who fit the description or have the qualifications, and then have them still do the work and interview or audition. And at the end of the day, it's the best person for the job. But if you're not seeking out those people who can do very well, and match that description, you're not doing your due diligence. Unknown Speaker 12:19 Right, right. Becky Kekula 12:22 So I ended so just kind of fast forward I, through going to different comedy shows, I was recruited to work at CBS television studios and the casting department. And I was there for about a year and then I still just kind of learned about apps. After starting to get really passionate about disability representation and media, I learned that there's still a long way to go. A lot of times, casting directors are going so much of what the description says on a writer's notes. They're not willing to have those conversations about what if we cast someone who's a little different than what you described in your writing. And they're just not enough creativity of thought it's pretty much what you see in the description. Unless it specifically says disability, they're not going to think outside the box, at least at that point in time. I think there has been some progress made with the casting society really trying to do their research and make sure that doesn't continue to happen. But that was happening. I learned about casting from a studio perspective versus working on the set of a movie in casting earlier on. And I thought, okay, I love this. It's great that it influences a lot of people, but they're moving too slow. We need to find a way to get more people represented faster. And while I was kind of deciding after that year that that path wasn't for me either. I found out that my friend to was the one who invited me to come out to LA to work for his man. adjure who then continued to be one of my roommates? He was diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's disease, ALS, so he had to go back home to Georgia. And I thought, Okay, what am I going to do anyways? I'm not really happy in my job. And I don't really know who I'd want as another roommate in Los Angeles is not cheap to live in, alone. And I thought, all right, even though it took me a really long time to get to where I am here, I think I need to go home and refresh. It was really hard to make that decision especially after the hundred interviews and really trying hard to get that first job. But I needed to just figure out how I could make change faster. From a personal influence level, when Yeah, and it was hard deciding Okay, cuz then I didn't mean I was gonna have to start the job search process again eventually, but I had the support To move home with my parents still kind of struggled with the fact that I was an adult with a disability living at home after being independent for six and a half years out in LA. But I needed to kind of refresh and my sister asked me, she's a creative writing teacher was at the time in middle school. She asked me if I could come meet her students. And then I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna start telling my story. And I wondered if people wanted to hear it, because I feel like you have to get to a certain level in your career, and then people may want to hear you speak. But then I was surprised. These students just wanted to learn all about me, because my sister had been talking about me for so many years. Uh huh. So I took that opportunity as Okay, I can do this. So I started reaching out to rotary clubs and in college I had started a Toastmasters club and got very involved in Toastmasters even after college, trying to gain more public speaking skills. and gotten involved with National Speakers Association. So I could start having a structure to my storytelling. And I just tried to reach out to as many places as possible, didn't worry about whether they were paid or not. And then it was about six months in. In March 2013, I had reached out to this organization called understanding disabilities and their speaker had dropped out and they said, What's your rate and I had to make up a rate and there was my first paid speech. Unknown Speaker 16:30 Wow. Becky Kekula 16:32 And so what I ended up doing during that period of time is I did go to a little people parents meeting so little people organization has regional events throughout the year in the 12 regions of the country. And then they have an annual conference every summer in July, where people come together, from all over the country and world. And in the parents meetings. A lot of these parents. Most of them are average height parents to children. In mature prism, they were talking about the struggles that their children were having transitioning from elementary to middle school or middle school or high school, when they're going to see a whole new environment that may be likely to make fun of them. I thought, Okay, let me talk to the administrators. If, if we make the connection, I'll talk to the administrators, and then it'll be a two pronged approach. I'll talk to the administrators about the accommodations I had. I can't speak to the personal experience of your child, but I can at least set a baseline. And then I'll go in and speak to the whole student body so they can ask me the hard questions versus your child who's transitioning next year and they haven't a lot going on and they don't need to have to answer the questions that are unnecessary. So give them that exposure just like that girl had and had been doing at Providence College despite by going to school there. Right, right. And it ended up being a great way to connect with families within the community and help with those transitions, and then I just kept trying to figure out where how I could get to the older groups because they need just as much education. And well, I was exploring figuring out what to do next. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people know this, just as a speaker on your own, trying to make it and build a career of it takes a very long time. And very hard. You have to have multiple avenues, multiple revenue sources. I ended up being asked to speak in Kenya. So I went and spoke to a little people organization in Kenya. Fortunately, the expenses were paid for. But it was a wonderful experience. But it was after that, that I was like, Alright, I got to figure out like, how do I get out of this house and figure out what's the next chapter for me? And I was able to be very vocal. Okay, I want to be a speaker and will continue to be a speaker. You're on the side, but I need another source of income. I was networking with someone who I met at the panel event I hosted at the agency. And he asked me if I would come work for him in New York at the actors union in the diversity department. And it was nice because it was still being able to use that experience I had from the talent agency in casting. And he said, I totally understand that you do public speaking as well. Happy to support you on that journey too. And it was a nice marriage between speaking and continuing to advocate for underrepresented groups in the entertainment news media. And moving to New York City. from Boston, there were just a lot more opportunities when it came to networking. So I was there for three and a half years and then I started to learn that the entertainment industry still has a long way to go. They're very focused on box office numbers and not wanting to take the risks that I feel that corporate America is more willing to pay currently, because they know that people with disabilities can add innovation and value to their workplace. There's still a long way to go within corporate america too. But they're moving a little faster. And it was in August of 2017 that I attended my first it was USB lm at the time now disability and conference, and I felt the energy there were people there who were excited about sharing their relationship to disability, opening up about their own story for the first time, since most disabilities are non apparent, people can't see them. And I just felt like this energy that I had never felt before. And that led to an opportunity for me to run the disability Quality Index, which is a benchmark tool that companies take To measure how they're doing when it comes to disability inclusion, and we always say it's a carrot, not a stick. We use it as a way for them to benchmark where they are and determine where they want to go based on their results. And I think it really has gotten people to open up about what it is they want to focus on and what are low hanging fruit and what may be longer term goals. But all of them bring them in a better place to a better place for hiring and retaining employees with disabilities. And they also are setting up the infrastructure. Well hiring we hope because we don't want it to be one thing happens and then the other thing happens, we want it to happen at the same time. And companies who score well on the index are named Best Places to Work for disability inclusion. And when we mean disability inclusion, we mean all disabilities we try to be as broad as possible. There may be some questions that are more specific to some parts of different populations within disability, but we try to be as broad as possible, because we don't want anyone to be left behind. And right there setting up the infrastructure. Those that are named Best Place to Work for disability inclusion can become employers of choice for people with disabilities, and hopefully it will encourage more self identification so people can get the tools and accommodations they need to succeed. Betsy Furler 22:24 That's wonderful. Yeah, I think that is, that kind of work just makes such a big difference for everyone out there. And, you know, hopefully in 20 years, the landscape is going to look a lot different for employment of people with all types of disabilities, whether that be something physical that's visible, or something like autism or ADHD or, you know, people with severe medical issues and chronic medical issues. I think that hopefully hopefully our landscape really is changing and I think disability in is making a big Making it making a big dent in that problem? Becky Kekula 23:05 Yes, we try. No, we can't we can't do it alone. So we're we're all in this together. And I think absolutely thrilled to know that we're all supporting each other. Because if it was just one person doing everything, it wouldn't be sustainable. Betsy Furler 23:24 Yes, yes, we definitely all have to cough I have to coordinate and collaborate. Well, it's been a pleasure to hear your story. And if I know that some of my listeners are going to want to connect with you, how is that? What's the best way for them to connect with you? Becky Kekula 23:40 Absolutely. So my website is BeckyMotivates.com. And that leads to a lot of my social media links, but a lot of them are Becky motivates. Or Becky Kula. You can pretty much find me that way on any of them. Betsy Furler 23:57 Awesome. Well, I will put that in the show notes. And it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much again for being on the mic. Yes. And listeners, thank you so much for tuning in, please rate review, subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you're listening to it on. And please follow me Betsy Furler. It's acid. And Frank you are LR, and on LinkedIn, or an Instagram. I'm also at for all abilities on Instagram. And you can find out all about my consulting services and my software that helps people get the appropriate accommodations they need in the workplace at WWW dot for all abilities calm. So I will see you all soon. Thanks so much. Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to us on. If you like to know more about what we do in our software that helps employer support their employees with ADHD dyslexia, learning differences in autism, please go to www dot for all abilities.com You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler and Frank, you are le AR Have a great day and we will see you soon.
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Thirty Two - Becky Kekula - DisabilityIN/Advocating for Others and Yourself Part One In this episode, I interview Becky Kekula of DisabilityIN. On the podcast, Becky talks about her early years as a Little Person and her education and career were affected. We discuss her early career in the film/tv industry and the importance of advocacy. To connect with Becky, please follow her on LinkedIn (Becky Kekula) and visit her website at http://www.beckymotivates.com. Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome to for all abilities, the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Have a listen to for all abilities, the podcast, and please subscribe on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Hi, everybody, welcome back to for all abilities, the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. And I'm so excited that you're here along with my special guest, Becky kulula, which I hope I said that correctly. Becky is was introduced to me by a friend and the the diversity and inclusion space. And I'm so excited to have you here. So Becky, why don't you make the Yeah, Tommy if I mispronounced your name and then introduce yourself to my audience. Becky Kekula 1:04 My last name is Kekula. I was recently married within the past year. And my former last name is Curran. And one of the reasons I bring that up is because I started my speaking career under Becky Curran and just recently added the kukula. So no worries on that piece. And I just wanted to say that I'm excited to be here, I identify as a person with dwarfism, person with a physical difference, okay to call me a little person, a Gore. also identify as being someone who's proud to be part of the disability community. And in my current role, I work as the director of the disability Quality Index at disability in a nonprofit that helps business advanced disability inclusion. We're all on a mission to reduce the unemployment rate. of people with disabilities in this country and in the world in order to make people more people feel empowered and independent, and happy to have a place in this world when it comes to employment. Betsy Furler 2:14 Awesome. And normally I interview people with neuro diversity, which you don't fit into that category. But when I met you and talk to you, I thought you would be really interesting to have on the podcast because the of the career path that you've kind of been on. And but let's start with what were you like as a little girl growing up going to school? Normally people talk about their diagnosis, but I guess you can talk about that, too. You. You may not have memory of that, but I'm sure you know, you've heard the story. Becky Kekula 2:45 Yes, definitely. So 80% of people with dwarfism are born to appetite parents and that includes myself. When I was born in 1984. My parents had no clue what it meant to have a child dwarfism. And the only reason they were actually able to find out that I had dwarfism was because there was someone in the delivery room a medical professional, who had seen another person with dwarfism, more specifically 100 plastic dwarfism, which is the type of dwarfism that I have being born in that hospital. It's very common for a lot of people with dwarfism, since they're over 400 types of dwarfism to not even have a diagnosis when they leave the hospital after they're born. So they were fortunate to have that scenario where they could at least identify what my condition was. But they also found out that it was very possible I wouldn't make it through my first night that I was having breathing difficulties related to sleep apnea, which is common among people with dwarfism. And there were some issues that maybe they thought I had that didn't even seem related to dwarfism, but here I am. 36 years. Later still alive. And that was just the beginning of their journey really not knowing what that meant. And I know you mentioned how you do work to advocate and speak on behalf of the neuro diverse community. And although I don't identify as such, people often get people with dwarfism mistaken with certain communities because of our height. They assume as adults, we still should be talked to as children. And it's really just lack of the unknown lack of previous exposure, and figuring out where to meet us. So a few days after I was born, my parents were released from the hospital, but they knew that they had a long journey ahead of them, and it was recommended to them to go meet with the geneticists, and they made an appointment and they got to the office where the geneticists worked, and they met with the receptionist and asked for directions on how to get to the gym. This office, and the receptionist immediately told them to follow the signs that say birth defects, and then go into the elevator that says birth defect floor, and then follow the hallway to see another sign that says birth defects. And then the genetic counselor will be waiting for them there. And that was something that really didn't settle well with my parents. So they decided that maybe it was time to write a letter to the hospital and let them know that there are a lot of new families who have found out that their child has some sort of difference. And it is not really fair for them to be told that their child has birth defects when they're learning to figure out how to find beauty within the difference that their child may have. Unfortunately, that hospital did change the signs to say genetics, and it matched exactly what the genetic counselor did work in genetics. And that was kind of just a testament of how I was was raised and how if they saw something that seemed off, they were going to question it and challenge societal views, and making sure that they could find a way to help me grow and thrive in this life that wasn't necessarily made for someone of my stepdaughter. Betsy Furler 6:20 Yeah. Hi, I relate to that story so well, because my son, my 22 year old son, who we've just recently found out has a neuro autoimmune disorder, but he's 22 years of not knowing. But how his life started was, when I was six weeks pregnant. I knew I was pregnant because I'd already taken a million pregnancy test. I went to my ob and he said, I don't know why you women think you're pregnant when you're not hot. And I learned to start fighting for his life at that point. And I think parents who start on that road of advocacy really early for their And how that, that idea of I don't want my child just to survive. I want them to thrive and be the best that they can be. I, you know, I just keep hearing this, this refrain over and over and over again as I interview people. So I'm so glad you had those parents. Becky Kekula 7:18 Exactly. And really that's what I've tried to dedicate my life to do is advocate on behalf of those potential new parents, the next generation of new parents as they find out any type of difference their newborn child may have. I would love to get to a day where people are equipped with the tools and resilience and confidence to raise their child no matter the difference. I recently spoke at a conference and someone was sharing this book about children being born with Down syndrome and it was a book Had letters from all of these people with living with down syndrome as adults, writing congratulations instead of I'm sorry, because people try to say I'm sorry. Like, we've got nothing better to say to you, and we don't know how to help you. Good luck, versus congratulations. This is what your child can accomplish and still has the potential for. Unknown Speaker 8:26 Oh, yeah, that's amazing. Yeah. But the perspective is, it makes all the difference, doesn't it? Becky Kekula 8:32 Yeah. So my parents really just didn't have a ton of resources. Even my dad's brother worked in the medical field, and all he could offer was a brochure that he found once on dwarfism. And it took about six months for my parents to find a specialist in Baltimore, Maryland. I grew up in Boston, Massachusetts, and they had to find a doctor eight hours away, who was hosting people with dwarfism who weren't current patience for a sleep study. It was a research project they were doing. And in order to get an appointment with him, we have to sign up for the sleep study. And we got to his office. And my parents immediately, just like showed how panicked and nervous they were, but also kind of about to feel relieved because they found the answers to what they were praying for just someone who was an expert in this area. And he had a doctor had a waiting room full of people. And he ended up calling my parents and even though these people had been waiting for hours for their appointments, he just saw their ghostly looks on their faces and said, basically, just lay it out there. What are your concerns? Let me help answer the questions you may have. And that kind of led to me being able to be patient of his and we were okay with waiting eight hours for those annual appointments. Even If we arrived for the original time, because we knew that he helped us in a very important moment when I was six months old. Betsy Furler 10:09 So what was it like when you were in preschool? And then elementary school? What were those years? Like? I think Becky Kekula 10:16 one of the greatest things my parents tried to do is help me fit in seamlessly with our community. And one of the ways they did that was they worked closely with the family friend, who I think we may have met just while we were going to preschool and preschools pretty early on. So I was still around the height of most kids in my preschool. So a lot of questions didn't start till people started growing taller than me in my age range. And there was a person in my preschool class who my parents worked with her parents to have her be in my class all the way up until seventh grade when we were separated by alphabetical order because I was C and she was w four last names. But still, that was a good chunk of my early childhood, where I had at least one friend in my class who could protect me from any potential beliefs in the community. And really, I don't remember many times being made fun of and it could have been, I do have narrow ear canals. So I have a little bit of hearing loss in my right ear. So it's possible that maybe I didn't hear certain things, but other things, I really think that she was able to stick up for me without me even knowing and it just kind of felt seamless, being a part of community. And then my mom was actually a special education teacher in middle school. So when I got to middle school in fifth grade, she was already a part of that community within that school and well respected. She was never one of my teachers, but at least I was kind of in that environment that people knew and respected her and I think that really helped me feel like that middle school. Those middle school years were just a seamless and then junior high in high school. I did have some medical procedures growing up. And the biggest procedure that affected my older high school years, was losing my ability to walk and I had to miss 29 days of school in 10th grade. And oh, wow, the community was super supportive during that time. Unfortunately, I did fall back in classes, I was in all honors classes, one of my biggest fears was falling behind. And I decided to still stay with my grade. But I had to work extra hard to try to keep up and make up for those 29 days of school, and everyone was super supportive. I think one of the reasons I needed to stay dedicated to staying with my class was that doctor we had gone to at six months and beyond. He mentioned to my parents try your best to keep her in the same school. system with the same people. And I think it even applies to try to stay with your grade because you know those people the most from early on. And that's one of the decisions I could have taken a year off not feel as rushed to finish my junior and senior year. But it was equally as important for me to stay with those people who knew me and grew up with me. Yeah, I Betsy Furler 13:24 think that's really, really important. I know I say to parents that all the time really, no matter what, you know, your child has that could be a potential struggle. My son's issues are mainly medical. And he was also with the same kids from kindergarten or from first grade through eighth grade and it made a huge difference. And one of the girls he was with all those years, they ended up going to college together and they lived in the same dorm and it was so wonderful. You know, that she kind of like was kind of looked out for him. For me, so I think it's really important to stay with your peers and when you can. Becky Kekula 14:07 Absolutely. And a lot of what I've done now, as we get to that point in talking about kind of the speaking that I do advocating on behalf of the community, I go into schools where sometimes there isn't that choice A family has to move to a different community, and try to try to help make that transition a little easier for those kids who are also sometimes it's five elementary schools coming together for middle school and if you don't already know someone at the middle school like me being fortunate to have my mom there. It's going to be a scary place because we'll only know a fifth of the people. Betsy Furler 14:50 Right, right. That's very limited. So what did you do after high school or and also in high school, were you in any clubs or anything like that? Becky Kekula 15:00 My mom was I was very good at getting us active in Student Council because she was in charge of it in the middle school and then I just continued on with it in the older years, and then I did speech and debate but it was the speech side it was forensics, where you compete based on how well you can present materials. So I focused on children's books, those competitions and how you can read children's books and really learn some of the presentation skills that way. I took some public speaking classes and photography while in high school, and then I was involved with the high school swim team and sailing team. Sailing was like a, it was a club that was newer there were not as many participants but my my dad actually made the decision to help me get that started so I could have a high school sport to participate in after my bachelor's surgery I had been on the swim team, but it was harder for me to participate as actively as I wanted to after that. Betsy Furler 16:09 Yeah, that's, that's wonderful. So what did you do after high school? I ended Becky Kekula 16:14 up applying to nine colleges. And I ended up choosing Providence College. Because when I was in the cafeteria, while going on a tour, there was a little person who's already attending school there. And I was able to see someone like me in that environment, even though it's not a very diverse school. It's predominantly Irish Catholic, Unknown Speaker 16:38 is at a small school. Becky Kekula 16:39 It had about 4000 people, so about 1000 each grade. Uh huh. But I knew that since most environments, there are only 30,000 little people living in the United States, and 180,000 or so in the world. Most environments have not met a little person. So it really does matter. If someone has touched that community in one way or another, so as soon as she was there, it helped set up the tone that whether or not she was having a great time. And it seemed like she was having a great time. I knew that people would be a little bit more respectful because they had seen her before seeing me. Betsy Furler 17:20 Right, you kind of had a, the door was opened a bit a little bit. Becky Kekula 17:24 Right. And, and that didn't make it extremely easy. That was just kind of the reason why I chose to go there. And it almost felt like applying to jobs, deciding whether or not you're going to disclose your difference. This was back in 2002. So when they were doing the roommate selections, I didn't feel like I needed to disclose that I was a little person and I don't, I don't really think Facebook was fully available by then or any of the social media. So it was pretty much Just what you have on your roommate profile, and I had two roommates that I was matched up with, and one I got along really well with on the phone. And once we arrived at school, she was not too happy about me not disclosing because she just didn't know what to expect. And it was a very challenging six months we still we talked about it to this day. We we've been in touch and we just talked about how it was a learning experience. But in the moment of it, it was very hard not knowing how to fix apologizing or like being forgiven for just being who you are. Unknown Speaker 18:42 Right. roommate situations are so touchy anyway. Becky Kekula 18:46 Right and that and I had a few days before we moved into school I was involved with this program called urban action. And it was like Habitat for Humanity where we went and cleaned up a farm, but it was a way to go to college a few days early. And meet the amount of people that you are going to be taking classes with. So it was about 150 of the people who were going to be in my class that I could get to know ahead of time. So I was already, like prepared them going above and beyond getting involved before even moving into college. So this will give me a head start. But I think it just kind of comes with the journey, the roadblocks that come with it. And I was fortunate during that program to meet someone who is my best friend to this day. And after that freshman year, she and I were roommates from sophomore to senior year and it really made a huge difference. Just having someone who, I didn't have to apologize for being myself too. And someone who gives me a lot of constructive feedback. That's something I asked for a lot. And I'm sure that you kind of witness that a little bit within the community that you advocate on behalf of wherever People just want to say they're doing a great job, and don't really know how they can improve. And I really appreciate when people tell me if I'm doing something wrong, so I can learn how to do it better in the future. And she's one of those people always been in my life willing to give that feedback, honestly and authentically. And I think that's so important. Betsy Furler 20:22 Yes, we all need friends like that. I know, I appreciate that too. Because I don't want just everybody going, Oh, you're doing great, Betsy. Because then it's like, but I know, like, There's something I need to be doing better. There's gotta be. And so after, what did you major in and what did you do after you graduated? Becky Kekula 20:40 I was a marketing major. And I just thought it was super interesting. It wasn't. Providence now has a business school with a more detailed program. So it was still kind of part of the liberal arts, just in general, the liberal arts, they want you to take all those general courses, so I didn't really focus as much on marketing specifically until the junior and senior years, we had to take four semesters of Western civilization, freshman and sophomore year. And that was challenging because I am one of those people where I look at something and I think everything's important. So I highlight everything. So it was hard to study and figure out what was important and what I should remember. But I think the life skills that you learn in college and just learning how to live on your own and be independent, add just as much value. So the whole experience regardless of how challenging it could have been at times, I ended up starting to do some different internship experiences throughout the summers. We had a family friend in our neighborhood who owned a fire insurance company, and I worked in the accounting department my first summer after freshman year. Found out fast that I didn't like that progression. The next year I ended up working in marketing iRobot they make the robotic vacuums and then they also have a war division where they make robots that can go on the war lines closer than people would want to go to the action to tech for bombs. So that was fascinating just learning about that whole robotic business. And while I was there, we also received some television scripts, where we could try to determine if there were appropriate moments, like in the TV show friends and Sex in the City, where they could have the robotic vacuum featured, but also talked about, rather than it just being product placement or you have it in the scene. Is there like an effective way to get brand recognition in a TV show? And that was kind of my first exposure to Oh, wait a minute, this industry has a lot of influence. So I kept trying to figure out okay, even though marketing major, super passionate about marketing, I'm going to try to figure out how to get closer to what it is this industry does with a lot of influence. And I ended up right before my senior year in college I applied. I actually just thought maybe advertising in general because that's media advertising. just fascinated by the profession. I found an article in a Boston newspaper and it was the top 120 ad agencies in Boston. I just sent my resume to all them. I knew it was going to be an unpaid internship, but I was willing to get experience anywhere. And the one that got back to me, the only one was allied advertising and they are the intermediary between the movies, the movie companies and the general public. So they try to find target audiences for advanced screenings before a movie is released. To the wider public. And then if they find that audience and someone goes, as a representative from the agency, they can take notes on what people reacted to, and any tweaks they may want to make before the wider release, like maybe jokes that didn't work too well, or where there was maybe too much silence when people should have been laughing. Just those things. So I would go and I would write notes in the dark on how people reacted to these different movies. And I did that for summer. And when I went back to school in Providence, my senior year, they didn't have anyone to cover the screenings in Providence, and I was able to continue doing that for the fall. And while I was doing that, I also applied to the local NBC News affiliate, and I was at promotions and publicity in turn. And while I was working there, I found out about the movie underdog being filmed in Rhode Island. In that next summer, which was going to be right after my graduation, and Peter Dinklage was going to be in the film. And they found out since I was in the area, maybe I want it to be his stand in. Meaning that if they're setting up the film set, he can stay in his trailer. Well, they set up the lighting and me being close to his height. I could stand there until it's time for him to actually go and act. And a lot of times they have standards because children on movies and television sets need to go to a certain amount of schooling. So they are able to go do that schooling while someone standing in for them in a lot of times it ends up being little people since we are at the height of children. So it has been a profitable career for a lot of people. But unfortunately, it was seemed like a great opportunity. They were ready to use me, but it conflicted with my last two weeks of college and I had to turn The opportunity because I needed to graduate and we know how important it is even to me staying on track with my class. Unknown Speaker 26:09 Right, but what a shame, but I guess, the way it's supposed to be, Becky Kekula 26:13 right, so what I ended up doing so that was going to be like a $4,000 summer opportunity. I had to turn that down. But I did since I had already made the contact with the casting director. I asked if I could still help out with the casting process throughout the summer so I could learn really what goes on behind the scenes as a casting director. So she was she was happy to have me help her find people for crowd scenes. Sometimes I would have to call over 300 people a day just to show up to the movie set and some people were canceling life threatening doctor's appointments because they just wanted to be on TV and film, which is a lot different than like in New York and LA where it happens. More often, I think because it was taking place in Providence and not many things are filmed in Providence. People were like this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. I don't want to miss it. Betsy Furler 27:10 Thanks so much for tuning into this first episode with Becky. Next week, we'll air the rest of the interview and you'll find out what amazing twists and turns her career took after the disappointment of not getting to work on that film. So Becky is so wonderful Her name is Becky Kola, and you can find her on LinkedIn. I will put all of her contact information in the show notes so you can get in touch with your feed like but please join us next week as we finish the interview with her. Also, please like subscribe, rate review, follow all of those things for all abilities podcast. You can do that on Apple podcasts stitcher pod bean anywhere Where you are listening to this podcast. And to find out more about my consulting services and my software that I use to help employers support their employees with disabilities, you can go to www dot for all abilities.com. Thanks for tuning in today. And I'll see you next week for the rest of my interview with Becky. Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to a song. If you'd like to know more about what we do and our software that helps employer support their employees with ADHD dyslexia, learning differences in autism, please go to www dot for all abilities calm. You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler f isn't Frank you are elhuyar have a Great day and we will see you
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Thirty One - Lisa Woodruff - Organizing and ADHD Part Part In this episode, I continue my interview with Lisa Woodruff of Organize365. On the podcast, Lisa talks about her early years with dyslexia and her incredible career helping people get organized. We discuss her books on organizing and ADHD https://www.amazon.com/ADHD-Affects-Home-Organization-Understanding/dp/B07212S4Z9/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3JDUKPKJ99DER&dchild=1&keywords=lisa+woodruff+books&qid=1598842017&sprefix=Lisa+wood%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-2 and her new book on mastery paper organization https://www.amazon.com/Paper-Solution-What-Shred-Taking-ebook/dp/B081M7P9C5/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3JDUKPKJ99DER&dchild=1&keywords=lisa+woodruff+books&qid=1598842017&sprefix=Lisa+wood%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-1 We also talk about the impact that her home organization program had made on my home and life! To connect with Lisa and to find out all about her incredible home organization program and products go to https://organize365.com. Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome to for all abilities, the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. episodes, because I knew we could talk a lot and she has so many wonderful stories and things for us all to learn. So Lisa, why don't you introduce yourself to my audience again? Lisa Woodruff 1:14 Sure. I'm Lisa Woodruff. I am the founder and creator of organized 365 out of Cincinnati, Ohio. We help women get their home and paper organized in one year with functional systems that work. I have authored a couple of books, one being how ADHD affects home organization. And my next book will be out August 4, called the paper solution. Betsy Furler 1:35 Awesome. So we left off last time after you told my favorite story about your kitchen counters and how not being able to put your groceries on your kitchen counters ultimately led to the organization and 365 business organized 365 sorry, and business and so I wanted to start off this episode. talking a little bit about how you think the COVID stay at home safe at home and order mandate. You know, suggestion if you're in Texas Lisa Woodruff 2:14 Anyway, let's say you're in. Betsy Furler 2:16 Yes. And how that has affected people with especially people with ADHD but all different types of neuro diversity as far as home organization, whatever you want to talk about about it. Lisa Woodruff 2:29 Yeah, you know, it's so interesting. I, when we first got the stay at home order, I'm in the state of Ohio. So we were one of the very first states to shut down. Our governor was very proactive, and we were very positive about that in the beginning, but as Americans, you know, like our independence over time, we weren't as excited about it. I initially thought Yay, everybody's getting sent home. Yay. This is my super bowl like put me in coach. Everybody can get organized and I totally did not anticipate how mentally exhausted It would be for us to lose all of our habits, our structures, our routines, and to be constantly mentally trying to reorient our selves to what the new normal is. I mean, like, of all the words that we have in 2020, like new normal, he thought that was going to be for the stay at home order, and then you thought that was going to be for working from home, and then you thought it was going to be for racism, and then you thought it was going to be for politics. And it just seems like we're getting whiplash. Every other week. There's a new normal every single week. And as we've opened up, all these different ways of looking at everything that we took for granted or had routines and habits in place for almost all of our routines and habits are gone, almost all of them are gone. And if you don't realize that your life is a series of the habits that you have created over time, and if you didn't purposely create them, then they just happened like too much social media time or whatever too much Netflix time or if you purposely created them, even if you purposely created them with a morning routine and affirmations and going to the gym, a lot of those even positive routines that you had in place just got thrown out the window and taken away in the blink of an eye while you're trying to make sure you still have income coming in, and you'd have enough toilet paper and oh my gosh, now I can't grocery shop where I used to grocery shop. And my cousin was telling me, she's down in Cincinnati in the city. And when she would go to the store, they were only allowed to get to milk items. Like you could get milk and cheese but then you couldn't also get butter. So I was like, Are you serious? Like that didn't happen 20 miles north where I am in Cincinnati. And so it was just constant survival like we got thrown back to we need to have the basics. We need food, we need toilet paper, we need money we need we need rent and some of us are still in those basic areas. And I just want everyone to take a deep breath and recognize that this has not stopped like the amount of change that has come to your brain has not stopped And I have been more exhausted in the last three or four months than ever. Greg and I go to bed so early, and we sleep in and we take naps. And still we are just mentally exhausted. And I know that when you sleep, I don't know who said this. But I know it's true when you sleep. Your brain makes order of the day, like literally your little cells like detox inside of your brain when you're sleeping. And the file folders of all the paper of information, your brain gets put in little file folders in your brain tries to organize what you've done during the day. And there's so much change and so little routine that your brains are just exhausted trying to figure out how to get money, get food. We don't have this. We always said, Oh, if I got sent home for an extended period of time, there are all these projects I would want to work on. I would say just a small percentage of us or even to that point yet. Betsy Furler 5:52 Yeah, it's been really interesting. I know I've been I found it very interesting on how I have I handled this it's been hard really, really hard. Being home with everybody in the family 100% Sure. And I like I said earlier I kind of are on the other episode. I have a tendency when I'm under stress either to get super disorganized, or like ridiculously over organized. And when this first happened, I did too. I did one of my crazy things when I get super stressed as I get, I start inventory things and I don't inventory at any other time. But I enjoyed all of our food. Like, member because remember back in March, when Ohio shut down, I was like, Oh, no, Texas is shutting down. I'm better get I better get it together. Remember, back then we didn't know we knew there was a toilet paper shortage already. We didn't know what the rights was going to be like, where are we even going to go the grocery store where they're going to close the grocery stores now. Right and I inventories I have this inventory I mean it's like seven pages of everything and what shelf it's on So, like Eric will say, you know, I don't think we have Italian dressing I'm like yes we do. It's on the second shelf from the top and the pantry. Lisa Woodruff 7:15 I did the same thing I went to the grocery store and everyone should know I don't cook like as soon as you listen to one episode of my podcast, you'll know that I don't cook. So I went to the store I bought beans and rice, like literally black beans and bags of rice. And not that I would even know how to cook this. And I said to myself, well this seems like a beans and rice moment I was ever gonna have beans or rice. This is when I would have it. Just so you know. My favorite restaurant called verse fast food never shut down. So I continue to drive there and get my onion rings. They were masks it was fine. And we continue to get takeout or Greg cooked and then the other ridiculous thing that I do every time something like this happens I did it when my dad died. I did it in 2008. As I like to think that I'm going to grow a vegetable garden, like I don't even cook but I think I'm going to grow a vegetable garden. This time instead of just starting a vegetable garden outside because it's March in Ohio, I bought one of those awesome hydroponic tower gardens like that you see at Epcot for $1,000. I made four salads I had $250 salads because like after I had like four salads I'm like I'm done with this and the whole thing died and whatever. But yeah, we just we go to this survival instinct, but yet we're not survivalists. So we do it in a weird way. Betsy Furler 8:30 What when, when Henry had his autoimmune encephalitis and it was really really severe. Um, and my audience on is Henry's been been medically fragile his whole life but the autoimmune encephalitis was like a whole new thing and very, like awful. And you know what I did? I inventoried all my clothes. I took photos of all of them. I remember that every I don't plan it planning. It's so it's just oh my goodness. I just want Lisa Woodruff 8:59 Can you can Troy What are you in control? Unknown Speaker 9:01 Oh, yeah. Betsy Furler 9:05 Yeah, so what are you in control of So, um, so I do think though, that having a system like organized 365 has helped me through this pandemic too, because I have had moments where I've decluttered and I've lost 20 pounds. Lisa Woodruff 9:22 I don't think I told you that I'm saying you look fabulous, Betsy. Congratulations. Betsy Furler 9:27 Thank you. So I've, I've had to spend I've gained it. No, just kidding. I have spent so much time outside because it's in the house. It's like where do you go? Well, it's safe to walk around outside. So anyway, I am so now I've gone through all my clothes again, because you know, none of them fit me anymore, which is a really fun problem to have. But I also started realizing that my structure like you were saying all our structures have changed so much. So my structure the whole way. I structured my De was totally blown up. And we all have a tendency to do is you know, then I end up wasting a lot of time because I'm not in my regular routine. And the other thing that I found that was very hard for me and I actually, I've never been diagnosed with ADHD or any of us. But I realized when I was stuck at a computer all day, every day and in one room and in my house instead of moving around the world, like I did before, I had a lot of trouble paying attention and attention. My attention was poor. And I started again, how do we get so antsy just sitting I ended up buying a standing desk also and that helps a little but, you know, really had to take breaks to like actually do physical exercise. And I also walk every day at lunch as well because I just like I feel that pent up energy that I never even recognized before. Me too. Yeah, it's, it's amazing how you know, just that change in structure can can just throw you for a loop. Unknown Speaker 11:16 Go ahead. Lisa Woodruff 11:16 Yeah, I used to be able to like, I'm one of those weird people because I do not have ADHD. I've been tested ever. It's like yesterday, I'm like, No, I don't I actually, I can literally sit at index from 8am to 8pm. And just get up for bathroom breaks and coffee and, you know, lunch, I can do that. And I can sustain my attention. During that time. I have worked over the last eight years to expand my focus. It used to be only until 11 and then 12, and then one and now I could do a full 12 hours. As soon as the pandemic hit, I was exhausted by 11am I couldn't make it past 11 so I was like, okay, and each week I just tried to get you know, another half hour and now I could do a full day again, but it took me all this time for months to get back to where my energy level was the way it used to be, my focus was the way it used to be. And still, it's not all the way there. I mean, I'm still going to bed at eight or nine o'clock at night. And we used to go to bed at 10 and 11 all the time. So our brains really have been affected. Like, this is such a huge change on so many levels that we just don't have the focus and the energy and the attention that we had before. Betsy Furler 12:24 Well, and I know now I get by 430 in the afternoon, I'm like done, like I and and I've never stopped working that early before. And you know, today I have a couple of calls. I have a call at five have a call at six I have a call at 730 and it's like, oh, Unknown Speaker 12:43 my nap Betsy Furler 12:44 challenge. Yeah. And because I you know, but it's not always a bad thing to because I think getting off the hamster wheel has really made me realize what I really want to be doing with my life and working till six every day in it. Lisa Woodruff 13:01 Yeah, but have you found what you want to replace it with that that's kind of my thing. It's almost like we all went off coffee simultaneously. So our productivity would like I didn't stop drinking coffee, but you know what I mean, like that extra jolt of productivity or packing more in. And then a lot of things got taken off of our list, like commuting or taking kids places like, but I don't. I'm not doing as much as I used to, but I'm more exhausted than I used to be. Although I haven't found like, Okay, and now I have time to take a college class or read a book or, like I haven't found that I filled in that time with anything that was always on my to do list. I'm just kind of in the messy middle. I think. Betsy Furler 13:40 I've been walking and that's what that's how I started running. And because I've walked so I mean, I'm walking like nine miles a day. And yeah, it's extreme. This is why so much weight. And I started I actually started running not because I necessarily wanted to run, but I started thinking, you know, I really like getting this much movement in. And when life goes back to whatever normal it is, again, I'm not gonna have enough time, like am I gonna have time to walk nine miles a really long time. So, so I was like, I need to pick up the pace. And so that meant learning to run. And so I started running and the other thing that we've been doing is we so you know, as you know, and I don't know if my listeners know this yet, but I am not a cook either. And one thing we've been doing is we totally aren't we source our food totally differently now. So we buy our meat from restaurants because here in Texas restaurants are allowed to sell uncooked food now. So we make all our meat from restaurants and then we get a farm box every week and produce and then we look at the produce and then I google because I'm really good at like figuring out recipe like what recipes we should make. I just I'm not good at the actual Making of the food but I can coordinate the effort. So I you know, Google, you know, spaghetti squash and chicken or whatever or yesterday it was eggplant and butternut squash what can we make with that? And I come up with recipes print them out for because he wants them printed and he has not paperless and yeah, he makes them but the so that has taken more time but then kind of like in the long run it's like you know, we used to go out to eat all the time. Yeah. And going out actually took so much more time than looking everything from scratch every meal from scratch, but we have like really shifted our time in that way. And then the other thing which is I don't know if it's good, bad or indifferent, but we just watch a movie every night together. Yeah to weave in. We never did that before. My husband does have ADHD and it doesn't really like movies like he really has never been interested in watching movies except for like, maybe once every couple of like, like a couple of times a month, we might do like a family movie night. But now every nights fam every night family dinner every night family movie night. Unknown Speaker 16:16 And so that's been fun. Lisa Woodruff 16:19 Yeah, Greg and I have always called our date night like from eight to 10. Like, we'll watch TV shows or movies or whatever. And that's something we have kept consistent. What I love about what you're sharing is for those of us who still have jobs, our work has not changed. And for those that don't have jobs, I mean, you're in the process of a job search or you're figuring out if you're going to take off some time or whatever. So the work bucket has stayed consistent through all of this the worry about it, the doing of it, the the taking care of the work, but the play in the social buckets got emptied out and aren't necessarily getting filled up. And so that's kind of what I've been talking through with my organize 365 it And since we focus on the home, is that, you know, school school still happened. It just happened at home. And it was messy for sure. for teachers, for parents, for students, for everyone. It was very discombobulated and hard, but school still happened. But kids social got taken away and kids play other than Xbox kind of gotten taken away. And so as we go through this global pandemic, which doesn't appear to be ending anytime soon, and we focus so much on our work, whether that's work or school, or volunteering, or however you spent the majority of your weekday, what you were doing, how do we replace our social and our play at home, in a positive way, and, and, and with that, like I like puzzles, some people like reading, your play, whatever it is you like to do for play. It's not just that I want time to do puzzles. We like novelty in our play. So you don't want to read the same book every single night. You want to have a variety of books, if you like puzzles, you like a variety of puzzles, you don't want to do the same puzzle over and over again. If you like cooking you, great a plant and squash so that's challenging. So I can, you know, have some creative outlet and my cooking and how do we focus on our social and our play while we are safe at home? Betsy Furler 18:16 Right? Yeah. And I and also our, you know, I was thinking the other day about my kind of my circle of people that I interact with. And my circle was huge before. It's still huge on a on a virtual basis, right. But the people that I saw in person every week was a really big, wide spread, very diverse group of people from different parts of my life and everything. And now my circle of people that I see in person is very, very small. And we have a neighbor, family that's a neighbor who we have quarantine with the whole time. So we have them and they have two little boys and then I have one of my college friends who's quarantined with her husband that I see periodically in person, the six feet apart, but you know, I have been to her in her home and stuff. And then my husband has one friend who I also have seen so I mean, it's like, gone from, you know, hundreds of people to like, I counted it up and I think total even with, you know, when you look at Okay, well, what about the people that they see on a regular basis? It was like 30 people Lisa Woodruff 19:34 which is good for Coronavirus. Good have You bet. You have a lot of words. You have a lot of words for those poor 12 people. Betsy Furler 19:45 And they have a lot of words too. And one of the things that I've done is I've started talking on the phone and I say I'm talking on the phone like it's 1985 and yeah, I even called you. Lisa Woodruff 19:55 Yeah, no, I think I think if you think about the the summers of the 80s or the 50s if you're older, like think about what you used to do in the summer in the 80s or whenever you were a teenager and your parents wouldn't take you anywhere that's that's Coronavirus, summer for you that's Coronavirus living and yet using your phone as a phone not as a computer Betsy Furler 20:18 that we bought a hammock and a Stan for our backyard. And we live in Houston Texas, so it's super super hot and humid but I'm like I don't care gotta be outside. So I lay out that are laying out this summer for the first time. You know, in the last 30 years layout talk on the phone with my girlfriends. I talked to somebody for two and a half hours on the phone yesterday. Lisa Woodruff 20:41 When am I good? Isn't it great though, isn't it just fun to connect with people again? Betsy Furler 20:46 It's been so much fun and I you know I've done a lot of zoom meetings but I'm pretty zoom fatigued where I really just am happier talking to people on the phone and just, you know, I miss my long cord whereas dragging her all over the house. And, but you know, it's it otherwise that's been that's been really great for me. And I would say that is I my two things are walking and talking on the phone. Unknown Speaker 21:14 That's my outlet. Unknown Speaker 21:16 Yeah. Do you think you'll keep those things going forward? Betsy Furler 21:19 I think that, um, because I've kind of combined the walking with the phone talking. So one of my friends and she frequently virtually walks with me in the morning. And I talked to her on the phone as I'm walking. And then another friend virtually walks with me in the evening. And so I think I hopefully, hopefully we will keep that I definitely have connected us to do this. Lisa Woodruff 21:44 Now I'm remembering this is like four years ago when I had a treadmill and tried to use it once you remember that. And so we would voxer back and forth and we would walk on our treadmills and I didn't do it for very many days. I wasn't a good partner. Betsy Furler 21:57 You warned me ahead of time that you're a terrible account. Ability size. So Lisa Woodruff 22:02 I Yeah, actually cooking exercise. I'm not your expert, that's for sure. Betsy Furler 22:07 Yeah. So but yeah, that's, I mean, that's been it's been wonderful and I really do I you know, also, I set up calls with my pledge sisters from my sorority. And then also a multigenerational call for my sorority and my sorority is only local and are very small college. And those that has been great I have made, I'll have to say even though my physical sphere of people is so small now, I have made a lot of friends virtually, or and in and deepened friendships, virtually, with people that I've known forever. And I've also networked a lot. And I've discovered that from a business standpoint, networking has in some ways been a lot easier, because you can actually get people on the phone that you never get on the phone before. But you know what I miss is being in hotels and traveling Lisa Woodruff 23:04 yeah I miss the traveling as well kept the book tour got cancelled? Unknown Speaker 23:10 No Lisa Woodruff 23:13 I threw myself a three hour pity party and then I moved on. Unknown Speaker 23:16 Yes, yes. Lisa Woodruff 23:18 But yeah I do love travel I you know, I've spent my whole life being a stay at home mom working from home mom and creating this business to to the point where I'm able to travel and meet people and do conferences and then the world closed. So that's a bummer. Betsy Furler 23:33 And I do believe that conferences on zoom are nowhere near the same as conferences in person. Because I go to conferences to meet people and talk to them. I don't go to conference to listen. Lisa Woodruff 23:48 Totally, but I just did mine this weekend. And we were gonna have like 80 people come to our conference in the summer. And when we moved it to virtual I think we had like five people cancel and then we have We maxed out at 150. We sold out before our sellout date. But how I did it was I did it on zoom, of course, because like, what else are you going to do? But I did my talks, but then we broke people out into groups of 10 in zoom rooms by where they live. And then we had a certified organizer in every single group, at least one certified organizer, and every single group. So you literally sat at a table, you're in a breakout room with people from your city or within, you know, 100 miles of where you live. So I did the talks, and then you went to your table and people loved it. And then I sent a whole box of surprises. So you know, every hour or so you were opening up something that went along with a touch that also reached a love language and it was a really, really fun experience. So I would have rather have had it in person. But there were a lot of people who said they wouldn't have never been able to come in person because they're a full time caretaker for their parents or for their child to a special needs are this one. their child just started having seizures the week before the conference and none of them would have been able to come if I had had it in person. Betsy Furler 25:02 True. And of course, she figured out a super creative way to make it. Make it. So there was that networking piece? Yes, I don't write them all off. Lisa Woodruff 25:10 But I think conference. No, I mean, we are going to have to be creative about delivering the experience in a different way during this pandemic season however long it is. I wanted to have my conference in person because I feel there's so much value in meeting in person and I want to physically give you a hug, and that's what and get a picture and that's what everybody wanted. But once I realized that that was not allowed, then I allowed my brain to think okay, well, if it's not allowed, do we still need an embrace conference? Is there still reason for women who are trying to make their house a home to come together? Yeah, that's still true. Okay. Well, if that's still true, then then how can we deliver that experience? Just like, okay, I cannot travel the United States and do my book tour. Am I still releasing my book on August 4? Yes, do I still have have parties? Yes. Do people still want to get assigned bookplate and be able to celebrate with me from wherever they are? Yes. Okay, well, then how am I going to do that? And so now it's about how do i do we still want to have the experience? Yes. Are we allowed to do it the way we want it to? No. Okay, then how are we going to do it? And I'll come up with a way. Betsy Furler 26:18 Right, right. And one of the fun things that Eric and I did during the stay at home time is he ordered he has a year ago he went to France with two of his best friends and they on an oyster tour, and so they're all really into oysters, and we all eat oysters a lot. And what he did was he had oysters delivered to them. And so each other couple and then us, they he, you know, had ordered these oysters and had them delivered. And then one of the other guys came up with a wine list and we all had the wine we all had the same wine. And then we got on zoom and we had an oyster happy hour. Have fun with all three couples. So two of us are here in Houston. But we were at our own homes, of course. And then the other couple was in New York City. And so it was, but it was like super, it wasn't like a regular zoom call, which it did give me hope for zoom calls, because it was very conversational. I mean, it was just like, we were all sitting around the table together. So if we interrupted each other when that big of a deal and our kids were walking in and out, and animals walking in and out, just like it would have been if we were in person. Yeah. So I think there is, we have so much technology now that I think there is a way to do this. It's just we all have to think creatively. And sometimes, I'm like, you know, occasionally, not very often because I am like, the biggest optimist on the face of the earth. But occasionally, I'm just like, I don't want to do it that way. I want to hug somebody. Lisa Woodruff 27:53 Yeah, it's hard. It's really hard to constantly you know, you and I are both both very big outside of the box. thinkers. So for people who are not that way, like they are just like, Are you kidding me? Like, why does everything have to be thought through? So for those of us that love to think this way, we're even tired. Like, it's just hard to think about how to. And as I was thinking about this summer I remember in April, I counseled the people in the 100 day program as a book. You're gonna want to pool get a pool. I know, I know your spouse doesn't want you to kill the grass within aboveground pool, tell them they can grow back next year, get one. And within a week, they did sell out on Amazon and everywhere people like thank you for telling us before they sold out because I was thinking ahead to the summer and you know, having kids at home and how are you going to entertain kids at home and try to work and all that. And just recently, I started thinking about the fall and the holidays and in Ohio, it's going to be snowing and you can't be outside and this is going to get a little harder and I was like oh boy. If you like to think outside of the box and creatively, you're going to get a workout this year as we continue to go through the seasons and get more frustrated at the fact that we don't have as much choice as we thought we did. Betsy Furler 29:03 Right? And, you know, that's a good point as as the seasons change, especially for you people who have seasons that's going to be a big problem here. Yes. Lisa Woodruff 29:12 You have variations of hot, Unknown Speaker 29:14 right? Yeah, it's just hot and then it gets a little Yeah, then it's just warm in the in the fall and winter. Autumn. Betsy Furler 29:24 But for you were there, you know, it may be snow and you may not be able to play outside all day every day. Lisa Woodruff 29:31 Yeah, unending snow days are really not as fun as they sound. Betsy Furler 29:36 I can't even imagine. Yeah, exactly. So being able to get outside is my sanity. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I do think it takes people like us who do think outside the box to really be willing to share what we're thinking about with other people. They may not listen but you know, some some of them will And the ideas are how to go forward without losing your mind. Lisa Woodruff 30:03 Yeah, I can only I remember when the pandemic first started, I was only able to think one week out, I could not even think about what the summer would be like. And then as it got closer, I was able to see towards the end of summer. You know, I noticed when kids were sent home that the hardest thing about schooling from home was that parents didn't have the time, or the desire to be doing the schooling and they were stressed as well. Teachers had a hard time communicating with students and teachers and they were actually working till midnight, just answering parents emails, students that had multiple teachers, there's just so much miscommunication. And it wasn't until the middle of June that I was talking to organized 365 team because we didn't know what was going to happen in the fall. At the time of this recording. We're just at the last days in June here and it just has come down that you're going to probably have a choice. probably have a choice if you send your kids to school or if you keep them at home and then if it gets bad they'll all end up going home and what I said to the organizers, 365 team was like, Look, there needs to be some organization around school. It doesn't matter if they're homeschooled their schooling from home, they're at school wherever they are. Kids need to take ownership of their assignments and their long range and short term assignments, and they need to put them in a planner that they understand. So we scrambled and we have created a planner, we have a planner for elementary middle schoolers and a different planner for high school and college age kids. And then I'm going to create videos that go with these planners that specifically tell kids how to organize and how schools usually do it is every year your teacher imposes the organization of their specific class on you if you're switching classes or the teacher you know if you're in grade school, young grade school because they start switching classes pretty young. And so every year a student has to learn the organizational traits of the teacher. Our planner is different. Once you learn this planner and how to record your long term and short term assignments. You buy the same planner year after After a year, and then we show you how to set up one two inch binder with five slash pockets in it to organize all your classes in one binder. And this is how I taught my kids. When they went back into public and Catholic schools after being in the learning disability school, they could not keep up with all of the organizational management systems that each individual teacher had. They had one binder, and their teachers assignments went in that book. And there's always one teacher that wants you to have the journal that gets turned in or whatever. But then that's just a one off from a system that you can use year after year after year. And if you have ADHD, if you have learning disabilities, like learning other people's organizational systems year after year, like no joke, it would take Joey eight weeks to figure out the organizational structure that all of his different teachers wanted and to go from class to class and this is in ninth grade. By then he was so far behind in the education part of learning that he never caught up that year. Betsy Furler 32:55 Hmm. Well, winner it's so when is that coming out? I'm super excited about that. Yeah, Lisa Woodruff 33:00 so those planners we're going to start selling in the week of July 13. You need to be in our kids program first. So our kids program is $297. If you are not in the 100 day program, if you are in the 100 day program, the kids program is $99. And the kids program is for kids. Well, it's really birth through 25. So it's divided into modules. If you have kids that are under the age of five, I teach you how to organize the nursery, the playroom, the the preschool area, kids start into the program around the age of seven. It's called learn and all kids learn how to organize their bedroom which I call your mini apartment. And then as they hit 16 they go into launch and launch teaches you about how to organize food and money and to move into your own space after your bedroom whether that's an apartment or dorm room or condo, and you could stay in the kids program until you have buy a house or have children so if you never buy a house or have children like you don't even need the 100 day program is everything you need will be inside of the kids program. Betsy Furler 34:00 That's awesome. Yeah, that is I think going forward I know Sam school so Sam is going into 11th grade Can you believe it? Yeah. So private Catholic high school boys school and they're looking at three options one would be everybody on campus full time. Option two would be they would go to campus two days a week you know they would have kids we go two days and a half would go the other two and then or all online and and online was super rough for him. And he actually really organized kid and it doesn't have learning disabilities as a little bit of a vision issue. But it was so hard for him to get Montt wrap his mind around those assignments, and write in full You know, when you're, when you're when you have the structure. I think it goes back to what you were talking about earlier is we've lost all the structure we had before and the kids are the same way, it's like, they're when they have the structure of, I get up I you know, eat breakfast, I drive to school, I get a class, you know, ABCD eat lunch, do this, I see the teacher face to face that reminds me that I have to do something. When we lose all our structure, we lose all of our external cues as well. Lisa Woodruff 35:20 It's like, throwing papers at kids versus giving them in files in a filing cabinet. It's like you just keep throwing papers at them. It's just, I mean, I'm supporting if people want to do school, but if it was me and my kids aren't this age anymore, if it was me, I'd be taking a homeschooling year. It's very easy to homeschool every state has their own homeschool rules. Ohio is very liberal in the homeschool rules. There's not a lot of requirements. And I would just be like, Hey, we are living through times that they will be talking about centuries from now. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to have a journal and I want you to research the difference between state and federal law and for those of you in Texas, it's the 49 states, Texas law and federal law says you got to have your own thing. You're the only state that is legally allowed to secede from the union. And why is that? And how did that happen? And where did that come from? And what is the history of racism in America? And how how can the Supreme Court say these things? I mean, we are living through history in so many ways. Like if you want to do math, study the stock market, how in the world can the stock market continue to go up when unemployment is like astronomic levels? Like why does the stock market not match? Kind of there's so many questions to be genuinely explored and learned about that. You could rabbit trail and research for ever and your kids would be so interested in what they're learning like, Look around you. What do you what do you want to learn about viruses? Do you want to learn about growing gardens? What do you want to learn about and just do it home school for you Betsy Furler 36:54 forget the whole thing. I can't wait to see the statistics of what happens because I think I think exactly the same thing. It's like, if we're going to homeschool, then do it. Right away. We want it homeschooled and organize it in the way we wanted done and have one teacher instead of eight teachers who happens to live in your house with you so you can actually communicate with them on a, you know, Lisa Woodruff 37:18 hourly pay the worst that can happen. I mean, seriously, what is the worst that can happen? Any college here is going to take your child because they're dying for college students. Like how could taking a gap year be negative at this time? Like I just don't even see how it could possibly be a negative? Betsy Furler 37:36 It's true. I mean, I think Sam Yeah, he's a he's in a prime spot to get into college and a couple of years, right because of all of that. Well, I we probably should go because now we're going over time with two episodes. So Lisa, tell, please tell my audience how they can get in touch with you again. After So, yeah, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Lisa Woodruff 38:00 I have a podcast organized 365 so if you like these kinds of conversations, I just talked to myself over there often but I also interview people over there. So that's organized 365 I unpack big ideas and then I try to give you step by step ways of then implementing those in your house or just taking the next step. And then the book the paper solution will be out everywhere that you buy books, audiobooks, ebooks, it'll be available on August 4. Betsy Furler 38:26 Awesome, well thank you again for being on for two episodes and and audience please follow Lisa and listen to her podcasts, you've really got to give it a chance because it is really entertaining as well as informative. And also please follow my podcast subscribe rate, review all of those things on whether they're pot whatever podcast platform you listen to for all abilities, the podcast on and if you want to find out more about what I do professionally with consulting and providing workplaces Accommodations through my software, please go to www dot for all abilities calm. Have a great day and I'll talk to you all soon. Thanks, Betsy. Thank you, Lisa. Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to us on. If you'd like to know more about what we do in our software that helps employer support their employees with ADHD dyslexia, learning differences in autism, please go to www dot for all abilities.com You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler episode Frank, you are le or have a great day and we will see you soon.
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Thirty - Lisa Woodruff - Organizing and ADHD Part One In this episode, I interview Lisa Woodruff of Organize365. On the podcast, Lisa talks about her early years with dyslexia and her incredible career helping people get organized. We discuss her books on organizing and ADHD https://www.amazon.com/ADHD-Affects-Home-Organization-Understanding/dp/B07212S4Z9/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3JDUKPKJ99DER&dchild=1&keywords=lisa+woodruff+books&qid=1598842017&sprefix=Lisa+wood%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-2 and her new book on mastery paper organization https://www.amazon.com/Paper-Solution-What-Shred-Taking-ebook/dp/B081M7P9C5/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3JDUKPKJ99DER&dchild=1&keywords=lisa+woodruff+books&qid=1598842017&sprefix=Lisa+wood%2Caps%2C173&sr=8-1 We also talk about the impact that her home organization program had made on my home and life! To connect with Lisa and to find out all about her incredible home organization program and products go to https://organize365.com. Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome to for all abilities, the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Have a listen to for all abilities, the podcast and please subscribe on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Hi everybody, this is Betsy Furler. Your host for all abilities podcast. Welcome back. And I have a seat I know I always say I have a special guest but today I have a super super super special guest. A really good friend of mine, Lisa Woodruff from organized 365 and I'm super excited that she is here to talk about ADHD and and what she does professionally which is Amazing. And I'm just thrilled that she's on my podcast. And she has a podcast of our own that I'm going to say a little bit about too after she introduces herself. So, Lisa, welcome to the for all abilities, the podcast. Lisa Woodruff 1:15 Se thank you so much You and I started working together years ago when you were in my organized 365 community audience and I was writing the book how ADHD affects home organization. And I asked you to write the agenda in the back, which ended up being like a third of the book about how different apps and accessibility can really help people with ADHD. So I love that you were part of that first book that I had coming out and then you are helping me with ideas for promoting my next book that is coming out August 4, called the paper solution that will be published by Putnam Random House. Betsy Furler 1:50 Yes, and I'm so excited about that book coming out and tell my listeners about your podcast really fast are your podcasts Lisa Woodruff 1:58 so organized recently 65 has been around for almost six years has almost 8 million downloads. And in that podcast, we really unpack the difference between decluttering your home getting your home organized, and how that leads to increased productivity and how the majority of the work that actually gets done and getting your home and your life organized starts with your mindset and your thoughts first. Betsy Furler 2:20 Yes, we both you and I definitely agree on mindset. Yeah, the things I've worked on mindset. And I have to tell my listeners, how we met because it's an unusual story. So well, kind of unusual, I guess. Um, I think it's unusual. So I had decided I was going to organize my house and I've always been fairly organized. But you know, as we all have things, you know, life happens and things get disorganized. So I've loved podcasts for years, and I decided to start listening to podcasts on organization on home organization. So I listened to a bunch of podcasts and I found yours and I loved it and after I've listened to To like 10 episodes in a row, I thought, I have to be friends with this woman, she, I got to meet her, I've got to meet her in person, she's got to be my friend. And so I continued listening and, you know, following your system and getting my house totally organized, which by the way, it's still organized because I still follow your system. And so if I need to touch up a little thing, it's like a 15 or 20 minute thing. It's not a days and days and weeks and weeks. So then fast forward, I don't know, maybe a year after that, or so. And you were writing your ADHD book and found out that I do, I'm an expert in the use of apps and people with all sorts of different disabilities. And so you called me and we started working on that together and then we ended up going to a conference and actually being roommates and within Think about six hours of snowing each other in part in person. I was at the time thinking about launching my other podcast, your app lady that I don't record anymore, but it's still available. And a lot of other people have told me I shouldn't record a pot do a podcast and you're like, Betsy, do the podcast, you can talk. You'll be fine. And you're totally right. podcasts are a piece of cake for me. So anyway, that's how we met and I'm so glad that I manifested our friendship. Lisa Woodruff 4:29 Yeah, you totally did. You totally did. And I love it. You're just such a creative person. You have so many ideas. You're always going a million miles an hour, as am I. And our conversations are so diverse and so eclectic. And we just get each other going off in so many different directions. It's so much fun. Betsy Furler 4:47 Wait, dad, and so I, I am so to my listeners. This is going to be a two part episode maybe three. And depending how long Lisa and I talk, we're talking. We're gonna talk way more than three 30 minutes for the podcast. So, um, okay, so back to the back to the purpose of the podcast and tell my listeners about what you were like as a little girl what your childhood was like. Lisa Woodruff 5:14 So I'm an extrovert, but I grew up kind of out in the country and there were 72 houses on the street and only two other families had children and they were boys, which was boring as a girl. And I had one younger sister and the reason I knew there were 72 houses was because I counted them. And I made a newsletter that I sent out to everyone in our neighborhood, and I also coordinated our neighborhood block party. So I was always very industrious. I'm a fourth generation female college graduate, all of my, the women on my mother's side of the family have all owned their own businesses. My great grandmother actually had four businesses in the 30s, which is amazing, like a floral shop and restaurant like, like big businesses, not just, you know, little businesses. And so I grew up with entrepreneurs. And as an extrovert without a lot of people to talk to I just basically talked to myself in my head and I created up all kinds of fantastic fun things to do. I created an invisible games for my sister and I were I named all of the different paths through our yard as if they were different streets in our city. And we would ride our bikes as if they were cars, and we used our baby dolls as if they were our children. And I called our bedrooms or mini apartments, and then we would meet at the cafe, which was that the kitchen and I was just coming up with all these unique ways for us to entertain ourselves. I think now as we're in the global pandemic, I often drawn those ideas to share with the kids that listen to the organized 365 podcast of ways to let your imagination you know, keep you company here in this safe at home environment during the pandemic were so much more creative than we realize we can be so that's the kind of child I was I was always creating new adventures and new things and I was able to play question At least even though as an extrovert, I was able to play quietly by rearranging my bedroom or reorganizing something somewhere else in the house or getting my sister to create an imaginary store with me. I did a lot of babysitting, and I would create imagination games with the kids that I babysat for. So, I was always busy doing something, but I would often clean up my mess is behind me. So it didn't seem that I was as scattered as maybe I was. Unknown Speaker 7:26 And how did you do in school? Lisa Woodruff 7:30 I did. Okay, I love learning. I still love learning. I was the one that always asked a question. If you're like, oh, if she would stop asking questions in class, that was me. I was always asking questions. I always wanted more knowledge. But I always had this floating. See, so my mom was a straight A student. She's a perfectionist, and I was not I always had a floating see and what that meant was, it was never in math, but it might be in English or history or science. And I would get a C on my report card and science and then I would try w hardest sciences and all sudden next semester, I would have seen history and then I tried doubly hard and history and then all of a sudden I'd have a C in some other class like I could never get all A's and B's, I always had this floating C. And it didn't really bother me because I'm not a perfectionist. And I knew I knew the information. But it really bothered my parents that my grade card did not reflect the intellect they thought that I had. And by my junior year in high school, I was taking a class. And I was raised Catholic. So I was in a Catholic High School. And I was taking a class and I read this whole thing about the conversation of bead and I read the whole entire thing, and I have a photographic memory. So I was taking the test. And I went up to the teacher, I said, I don't know what the answer to this question is, but it's on page four, line three, does that count? She goes, No, you have to actually know it. I was like, darn it. So then another class I about this conversation, a beat I go up and I said to the teacher, I said, You know, I understand they're having conversation in all but really, he's been converted to Catholicism. I don't know why they're not saying that she's like, read this word. And I'm like conversation. She said, read it again. I'm like, oh, converted. And that's when they took me to Sylvan learning centers. And they said, We think that Lisa has a learning disability. And they asked me a bunch of questions. I was a junior in high school. And they said, Well, I'll tell you what, if we run her through our battery of tests, she's going to come out just fine. But I'm going to give her this test that we would give her like on, you know, if you got through all these 10 levels, and we were trying to figure out what it is. So they gave me the test, and I failed it. And they said, she has dyslexia. They're like, 600 different kinds of dyslexia. They said, she has dyslexia, she has accommodated for it in multiple ways. It's not really worth doing anything about it right now. But that's why I could never get you know, all A's on my report card was because I understood the concepts. I understood what I was doing, but my spelling wasn't great. And so my reading comprehension was not always where it needed to be to get all A's and B's. Betsy Furler 9:58 Yeah, I kind of have a similar path. I've never been diagnosed with anything but my mom, even to this day will say hi, I think you just had to leave just have a touch of dyslexia. And I know that spell tech is now my friend or spell production and editors. My editors, yes, it was so helpful. And I was kind of the same way. I mean, I know my mentor in college said, you know, you're not really your grades aren't really reflecting your potential and then he did it but you're having a lot of fun. So there's a lot to be said. Like, Yes, there is. So how did it so you went off to college? Did you go right off to college after high school? Lisa Woodruff 10:42 Oh, yes. I mean, I you know, I came out of the womb with plans with five year 10 year 15 year goals like I had a planner before planners were cool, that's for sure. So I when I was in high school, I wanted to own my own business and be President of the United States and have four children and homeschool them all. I have done all those things, and I don't want to be president anymore. So three out of four isn't that only a two children, but they're the equivalent of four is often what I say. And I did end up homeschooling my daughter the last two years for last two years of high school. But I always knew I wanted to be a business owner. And my parents had enough money to send me to college. I went to Miami University in Ohio. And my dad had figured out it was going to cost about $80,000 to send me to college and 1990 to 1994. He was a salesman, he was a businessman. And he said, If you graduate in four years, I'll buy you a car because he knew a car was going to be $20,000. So same thing either go five years, or you get a car. So I got done in four years with two degrees. But he also sat me down at the age of 18. That summer, and he said I wanted to have a corporate daycare at that time. It was a new concept. And there were some corporate daycares in Akron, Ohio, and I knew one of the business owners that had started one and so I was intrigued with that. And my father said to me, you can go to college if you want or I will give you $80,000 And you can start, you know, your corporate daycare center, you could start your career and I was like, who jump right into entrepreneurship. To which my mother who had a four year college degree said absolutely not. She's going to college. So I went to Miami University and I really enjoyed it. I got a teacher degree and I was a teacher for a few years, but I think it was always evident from when I was a young child that I would eventually own my own business one day, it just took me a little bit longer to get there. Betsy Furler 12:26 But I think you're still a teacher even though you're not working in a school but you're everything you do professionally as all about teaching other people systems and and ways to go through them. And one of the reasons that I love your program so much, and your podcast is that you do so much and you move fast, but you have a really structured system behind it too. And I know that the way my mind works, because I can get Really distracted by all of my ideas that I have. And so a structured system while it's not kind of it's not my, it's not my go to, it's the thing that keeps me going, if that makes sense. So you like I'm running now, by the way, which I don't know if I've told you, but I'm a runner now, which is shocking. And, and I run every other day, and I run at the same time every day. And I, you know, I have this plan and structure of how I'm moving forward with my running. And if I didn't have that, if I just was like, I'm just gonna run when I feel like it. I would probably run like five times a day for the first two weeks, and then I would never run again. So yeah, the way you teach organization is so helpful. And I think for anybody with any kind of neuro diversity, it is really helpful to have a plan and a structure. Lisa Woodruff 13:55 Yeah, I 100% agree. My last year's actual teaching right before I start Organized 365 I went back to teaching for 18 months, and I taught Montessori middle school math and science. And I loved it. loved, loved, loved it. And what I loved about Montessori education was all of the focus was on learning. And there was structure in place, you know, we had the structure of the day, and we had the structure about how many minutes you had to do in each assignment. But there was so much freedom and how and how you got to learn the different subjects. And so my goal was to teach everyone algebra, and if you know anything about school, like when you ask kids, what's your least favorite subject more often than not, it's usually math, science, you know, that's not usually the favorite subject. So there were quite a few students in my class that were not really thrilled to be having their minutes with me. And I just took it as challenge great. I'm gonna make you love math as much as I love math. And I am going to teach you math in a way that you will understand it forever like I'm not as into the grade as I am to understanding the concept. So I could literally teach any algebra concept in eight or 10 different ways I would teach it with. In Montessori, we actually have three dimensional materials that will show you why a squared plus b squared equals c squared. It's fantastic for those that are visual learners, but other people are really just really good about learning formula. So we just learned the formulas. And being able to take the same concept and teach it in so many different modalities expands your thinking as a teacher, and that's what I do in organized 365. Like, I have this product called the sundae basket, which thousands of people are using and a psychologist went through and she analyzed the sundae basket and she said, the reason why it works for almost everyone is because you have all the different learning styles in there, you have all the different modalities you have, like any way that people would approach learning is inside of this one simple system because I kept refining and iterating the system so that it would work for all So that your learning style is baked into the system. And that's the fun challenge for me. How do I get you to love organizing as much as I do, so that you want to listen to the podcast and you want to organize more when before you thought, Oh, I'm not an organized person. I'm never going to learn to be organized. It's just a chore. It's a task that I want to check off and never have to do again. I had kids by the end of the year love math. They didn't love math before. And now I just do that with organizing. Betsy Furler 16:25 And back to school, and when you started working after school, how do you think your dyslexia affected you both in positive and negative ways? I think Lisa Woodruff 16:41 I tell you exactly when it was was my third year teaching, I had finally gotten a classroom of my own. And the only reason I got in that first year classroom class was because I had taught the extra half an hour or half day for kindergarteners the year before. And these are all children that were at risk for being on an IEP having some kind of Learning Disability behavioral disability in the future. And so they got an extra half day of kindergarten because our district did not have full day kindergarten. And so the administration said, we will give you a first year job, we'll give you a classroom, if you will take all of the disadvantaged children in your class together, instead of spreading them out amongst the other first grade classrooms so that you will loop with them so that the children when they come in fall, will at least have a relationship with you and your classroom style. And then you could pick up where you left off. And we want to see if this would work for these children. I thought, Yeah, great. I'm all in. So the school district I was in had a lot of free and reduced lunch and some of the children's parents were in jail or you know, there were a lot of, you know, not ideal circumstances of these children. And this was back in the time 1993 94 where you did fail children in first grade, like kids could legitimately fail and be held back in first grade. And I stood up as like a 24 year old kid in front of this Class of, you know, maybe 30% of the parents actually even showed up on teacher parent night where I supposed to explain about my classroom. And I stood there I remember to this day standing there and saying this, I said your child cannot it's physically impossible for them to fail first grade, the only thing that can happen is I failed to teach them. I said, so if you partner with me, your child will go to second grade and we will have this be the most, you know, productive year and have them learn as much as humanly possible and I will not stop in how I iterate and and teach them the skills that they need to go to second grade as long as you will support me because children cannot fail to learn only teachers can fail to teach and I just think that's in everything. If If you are teaching something, and the people that are coming to you, whatever age they are not understanding what you are teaching, then you just have not clarified your message enough you are not providing it in a way that they can absorb it because if they want to learn that information, it is on the teacher to learn how to teach it not the learner To figure out how to learn from that teacher. Betsy Furler 19:02 Yeah, good point. And you know, when we think about business and how we run businesses and how we just judge success of our business, it's always not judged on how well I know how to provide accommodations for someone or how well you know how to organize. Right. It's judged on how we then share that information with other with our customers. And so, and it's, it's interesting, you know, when you think about it that way that frequently in education, it's considered the child's problem if they're not learning. Lisa Woodruff 19:39 Right. And, I mean, doesn't I mean, now that you're hearing it doesn't that sound so backwards? How can it be a six year olds problem that they can't learn that just doesn't even make sense? Betsy Furler 19:48 It doesn't make sense at all, but it happens all the time, as we all know, and then, you know, the other thing that happens is and they're just taught the same way again, and they don't learn it. Time Lisa Woodruff 20:00 let me teach it slower the same way. Exact now they're just bored and frustrated. Betsy Furler 20:07 Right? Exactly. And I'm sure as a teacher and what you do now you are because you learn differently. You think about that a lot more. And then also I think you're so forgiving. I know I'm sure you were I'm sure you were like this 100 times more in the classroom even then you are in your organization business. But I knew even your organization business, you give people so much grace and you really, and you really teach people to have grace for themselves as well. So if you don't get it perfect this time, like just you know, we're all just doing the best we can and going forward and in your system. The first room is the kitchen and my kitchen is so organized. On Good job, Betsy, I always do the kitchen. I'm always 100% on the kitchen. And, but then when you think about our houses and where a lot of clutter comes up, it's in the kitchen. And so if you can keep your kitchen organized, kind of the rest of your house can, can fall into place so much easier. But I also, I've never felt while doing your organization program, and I've been doing it for a long time now, like I was trying to think before this call when I did find your podcast and it's been a long time. It has Lisa Woodruff 21:34 to be at least four years, at least for years. Betsy Furler 21:37 Henry was going off to college. So that was four or five summers ago. It was a long time. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, um, and and my kitchen is still like, totally organized and the other I want you to tell So, so I think sometimes our when we're in crisis All of our weaknesses, you know, come blaring out. And I know for me that is, um, you know, I do have more difficulties spelling. When I'm stressed out or in crisis, my organization can can like, take a really organized and in life typically, but if I'm under crisis I go one of two ways I get either way, way way more organized. Yeah or it was like totally falls apart. So I would love for you to tell my listeners about the your countertop kitchen countertop story because I think about that all the time and it really keeps me motivated to keep my kitchen counters clean and it also gives me a lot of grace of if I feel like my kitchen counters are getting messy. I'm like, I least have a place for my groceries. So tell my listener kitchen countertops story. Oh, hell yeah. Your life. Lisa Woodruff 23:05 So this is how I started organized 365 in 2012 a couple of things first, you mentioned something about, you know, working at getting towards perfect or this isn't perfect. I don't even try to get to perfect anymore. And I think when you start to realize that perfect isn't a place it doesn't even exist even if you see it on Pinterest or in a magazine. I know bloggers whose houses are literally perfect. And when they go into magazines and the magazine team shows up, they rearrange their house to be even more perfectly it does not exist. We are we are trying to get to something that does not exist. So to tell you the 2012 story, I have to start back in 2011. Now, you've heard a little bit about the kind of teacher I am. I was teaching in a Montessori school that I loved. And it was the Thursday before winter break and I had been held back for a meeting with a parent that was not necessarily So we had this meeting with the parent. But the problem was not that I had to have this meeting with the parent after school. The problem was Greg and I were out of vacation days, we were out of sick days, we were taking days off of work without pay. And one of our kids needed medical attention that night, and neither of us could get to that child and it was pretty severe. And my administrator not only held me back for that unnecessary teacher meeting did not have to happen at that time. But when that parent left, the teacher said, I need you to stay back for to talk with me. And I was like, Alright, fine, you know, knowing that I had a child at home that needed me. And she proceeded for 30 minutes to tell me what a bad teacher I was, and how I was not measuring up and I wasn't doing good. If I'm teaching 21 middle schoolers, individual math assignments, and I'm not doing good enough. And I'm driving home Of course, it's raining, you know, it's raining, it's dark. I'm driving home. It's like a country song. And I'm thinking to myself, and I'm like, I am failing as a wife, as a mother as a homeowner as everything in my life except for teaching. Now my administrator just told me I'm failing at that to like, well, this must be rock bottom. Like, clearly, I am no longer meeting my own expectations for anything in my life. And I thought, well, I'll be darned if I am good to go down meeting the expectations of an unrealistic administrator, and yet failing the children that God has given me to be their mother and look back 20 years from now go, well, shoot, I wish I would have put the time into my kids. Because they're the only I mean, no one else can be their mom. No one else went out. Betsy Furler 25:32 So that's so true. That's so important to remember too. Lisa Woodruff 25:36 And we were I mean, we were spiraling into debt more and more and more debt. And so I walked in the door, Greg is such a laid back type B person, I was like, I think I'm gonna quit my job, you know, like, all up in arms and he's like, All right. So I go upstairs, I write the resignation letter. I come back. I was like, great if you guys whatever. So I quit my job. So here we are in the beginning of January. I did start the blog, organize 365 I knew Little bit about the internet and blogging and watch some people be successful and there was a way to do this blogging thing. So I registered organize 365 and got started knowing that organizing was going to be my thing. And I could do it 365 days a year, I had no idea what I was gonna do after other registering the domain. So I went to the grocery store. First day, I'd been in the house by myself for at least 18 months, came home with groceries, walked in the door and I went to put them on the counters and all the counters were full. I mean, I can't even tell you what's on the full on what was on them. I don't even know. And if you see Instagram and you see my house and you see my kitchen, it's ridiculous. I have two nine foot long countertops plus more. I have more counters than anybody has, especially in the size house that I have because we redid our kitchen. No, no countertop space. All right, I'll put all this the stuff on the floor and then I'll start putting it away in the refrigerator in the cabinets and I started opening the cabinets and it was like I was in somebody else's house. I didn't recognize anything in the cabinets. So I start Walking around the house and looking in the linen closet and other closets and Unknown Speaker 27:03 I had been on Lisa Woodruff 27:06 the hamster wheel of just reactively living my life for so long that I did not recognize my own home and I'm a born organized person. Like I've been organized as a child. I was organized when the kids were young and in grade school, but I was about to turn 40 and I didn't recognize my house, I didn't recognize myself, I didn't recognize my life. And I sat down and I made a list of all the spaces in my house that needed to be organized. And I said to my husband, I know we need me to earn money, but we're Gen X are so we have really good credit. So we're just gonna keep using this credit because I got to take back this house, I've got to take back my house, I have got to start living a productive life again. Betsy Furler 27:44 I love the story. And I you know, the other thing that I think that my listeners can really take away from that is you kind of took the, you know, one of the worst times in your life and where It pointed out kind of your, you know, where you were falling apart. And then you turned it into this like, amazingly positive thing. Lisa Woodruff 28:08 And it really didn't happen overnight. You know, everybody knows that took eight years to get where we are and organized 365. Right, like, everybody recognizes that Betsy Furler 28:16 it only took eight years. Like, you know, but you got to start somewhere. And when you know you then you also kind of jumped in with like, Okay, what is basically you use your own accommodations, like your accommodations, our organization, you know, all of that writing things down getting things structured, and you used your own accommodations, in order to both turn your house around, which I'm sure at that point time was not really you didn't think you're going to build this big business around that you just wanted a house together, and then figure out what you're doing next. But you've ended up into making this amazing this this incredible business and So I'm gonna, I think we're gonna slide into part one now, Lisa, okay. Because I think this is a good point to end but just in case people don't hear the end of Part Two, I want you to tell my audience again, about your, the book that's coming out in August. And you also have the book, the ADHD book that I want you to tell them about and also where they can, how they can get in touch with you after if they want to follow you on all the social media and find out more about your program. Lisa Woodruff 29:34 Oh, thanks, Betsy. Yeah, if you've liked this conversation at all, and you like podcasts, you might like the organize 365 podcast so just search organized 365 in whatever podcast player you have, I'm on them all. That's the best way to get started with me. And then the paper solution is coming out August 4, the paper solution is, you know, paper is something that you can hide that you can shove in closets and filing cabinets and deal with later but there is you Usually some kind of life event that happens that where you need your paper, whether someone gets ill and you need to be there power of healthcare, you have a family member pass away and you need to be the executor of their estate, you have a child and you need to coordinate all their papers in order to go to an IEP meeting, or you just feel like he would like your kitchen counter for food. Thank you. And could we get these piles of paper off of there and start a weekly habit of the Sunday basket. The paper solution solves all those problems. It's written so you can read it like a novel all the way through or you can if you just became the executor of your parents estate, you can grab the book and flip right to the financial binder page and start reading and Betsy is featured in that book. When we talk about medical the medical binder. The conversation that Betsy and I had one night when we were posted in hotel lobbies. Betsy Furler 30:50 We were just chit chatting Lisa Woodruff 30:51 back and forth while she was working on Henry's medical binder. So I tell that story in there as well. paper is powerful like in America. We're never going to be paperless. We can have less paper, but we're never going to be paperless. So if you're like, Okay, well fine if I can get down to 15% of the paper I have today, how would I do that and this book walks you step by step through how to do that. And then the book that Betsy helped me with is how ADHD affects home organization. Both of my children were diagnosed with ADHD when they were children. One has had that diagnosis since removed, but they both went to a learning disability school here in Cincinnati, called Springer school and center. I was a parent there for eight years, I said I should have been able to walk graduation. And we were done with those bills. I was definitely college tuition pricing. And they brought in so many experts in the field of ADHD in conjunction with Cincinnati Children's Hospital and I got to learn about ADHD from the best of the best as a parent. And Springer also collaborates with teachers in Cincinnati and teaches them about ADHD. And so I learned about all of the eight executive functions and over time in professionally organizing people's homes most Of whom either had or self professed to have had ADHD, I realized that there were six executive functions that relate to how you organize your home. That are that if you can understand what your brain is trying to do, and then see what's happening in the home, just knowing what the process is, you're better able to put accommodations in. And it is my heart's desire, maybe someone listening this podcast will be able to help me with this in the future. It's my heart's desire to be able to run studies specifically about women who have ADHD, and how they function in the home. I feel like we have a lot of accommodations for people with ADHD in work environments, in home environments, inside of volunteer organizations, but when you're at home, you're isolated and there aren't the supports there that you have in other places. So I really would love to run some studies on that. Betsy Furler 32:50 Awesome Well, thank you so much for joining me today and listeners. Please also follows subscribe review rate All of those things fall on the for all abilities, the podcast on whatever podcast player you use. And Lisa is going to be back with us next week. So thank you so much for listening in today. Thanks, Betsy. Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to us on. If you'd like to know more about what we do in our software that helps employer support their employees with ADHD dyslexia, learning differences in autism, please go to www dot for all abilities.com You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler f as in Frank, you are elhuyar Have a great day and we will see you soon
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Twenty Nine - Michael Newman - Moving from College to Employment with Autism and Bipolar Disorder. In this episode, I interview Michael Newman - college student . On the last podcast, I interviewed Michael’s mom, Kristine. She and I discuss Michael’s early years, his strengths and his college experience. On this episode, Michael and I discuss his view of his early years and his plan for employment. We also discuss the accommodations that may help him when he gets a job. To connect with Michael, please email him at jankdn@gmail.com. Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome to for all abilities, the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Have a listen to for all abilities, the podcast, and please subscribe on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to for all abilities, the podcast. Today we're talking with a special guest. We're talking with Michael and his mom. Christine was on the podcast last week talking about him and his brother. But I thought it would be really fun to talk to Michael himself and get his views on employment and school and his own neurodiversity. So Michael, welcome to for liabilities a podcast. Thank you for having me. Yes, thank you so much for being here and I would love for you just to introduce yourself really quickly to my listeners. Michael Newman 1:13 Okay. Um, my name is Michael Newman. I'm 23 years old, and I've been diagnosed with autistic tendencies and bipolar disorder. My bipolar starts showing up around second grade. My autistic tendencies didn't show up until much later than that. But due to the severity of bipolar I had I don't remember much from elementary school, there was a bunch of memory loss from that. So I'll just say what I can. Betsy Furler 1:50 Awesome. So and as you know, so to my listeners, Michael, this is a second time Michael has been nice enough to let me interview him because the first time I had some audio parts So we're having to do a repeat. And so Michael, I'm so glad you're willing to do this. So so you already know the question. So the first one is, what were you like as a little boy? So I know you had said that you had some memory loss and you don't remember a lot. But did you enjoy Elementary School in middle school? Michael Newman 2:20 Um, I enjoyed middle school, but elementary school not so much. The main problem that we had was that bipolar was running rampant while we're trying to find the right medication. Um, it made bipolar worse until we finally found out what I needed around fifth grade. I'm probably one of the sizings I remember that was actually very clear. For me remembering is my mom telling me that this was the happiest she'd ever seen me in the past couple of years. By polar There was major ups and downs there. I've ended up doing was called crash where if you don't know what that is, it's a it's an aftermath to bipolar. Where after an episode I get really tired. I can't think and I'm really depressed hmm that made school very difficult. Betsy Furler 3:24 Yeah, I bet and you said you liked once you got your medication kind of straightened out that made school better, I'm sure made everything better made life better. When you were in middle school, did you have any hobbies or extracurricular activities that you did? Michael Newman 3:41 Well, the main thing that I enjoy doing is art. I've done pretty much every medium you could probably think of. But starting in middle school, I started doing other things sixth grade, I started doing songwriting. And then starting in eighth grade, I began to write stories. Betsy Furler 4:02 That's awesome. Yeah. So, um, a little bit later, we're going to kind of talk about your strengths around employment. So then, so then you went off to high school. And was high school similar to middle school, or Were there any differences? did things get better or worse? Michael Newman 4:18 Things got a lot better. In high school, I'd say the issues stopped at school around eighth grade. I would have probably two episodes that were really bad at school until the fifth grade, but just for middle school, but things felt like as a lot more control afterwards. I didn't have any problems at school since then. Betsy Furler 4:48 That's awesome. And now you're, you're in college and you're going to be finishing up in about a year. Is that correct? Michael Newman 4:54 I'm going to be finishing at the end of this year. Betsy Furler 4:57 Oh, okay. So it's just one more semester. Michael Newman 5:00 After two more because I'm doing the summer semesters and have one more semester left. Betsy Furler 5:06 Okay. And then fall semester as well. Yes. Awesome. So and what is your major? Michael Newman 5:14 Um, general business? I've changed my name my major a couple of times. The first one I did graphics design for my major, which that only last fall semester because I was informed here needs Texas that job description is pretty hard to find. And then I changed it to general size and I'm doing general business. Betsy Furler 5:42 Yeah, I think that'll open up some more business opportunities, job opportunities for you. And what is your favorite thing about being in college Ben? Michael Newman 5:52 Um, well, they have. I don't live on campus but I drive up there. They have a game room actually. And my favorite thing to do the game are you playing playing ping pong with friends and actually taught other people how to play. Betsy Furler 6:13 Oh, that's amazing. That's, that's so much fun. And are you a video gamer as well? Michael Newman 6:19 Yes, I am. I've played a lot of your games, but that's not really the main thing I do much anymore. Betsy Furler 6:27 Oh, good. Yeah. And ping pong is a super active sport. It's like it's always amazing when I see people play ping pong, how much movement they do. Yeah, hand eye coordination and mood and physical movement Michael Newman 6:39 is a lot more than just involved back and forth. Betsy Furler 6:44 Yeah, yeah, strategy and everything else involved in that. And so as you get ready to graduate, I know you and your mom have been talking a lot about what kind of job you might want. So what have y'all been thinking about? Michael Newman 7:01 She thinks the best job with me would probably be a desk job routine as a big thing for me if like a sum, if I get a job description, but then things are just like I get a curveball with an assignment. Things change I start getting a little confused and worked up. I get a little stressed out. Betsy Furler 7:28 So you need as well as we're just kind of talking about jobs. We'll talk about the job accommodations too. So you need clear direction, right? Yes. Excuse me like so you like people to tell you like this is what I expect from you. And what about structure around schedule? Michael Newman 7:49 I'm really when it comes to schedule, I'm very flexible as if someone needs me to work someday I'll just go work there no questions asked. Betsy Furler 8:00 Okay, and and then I think we talked when we were talking before about one of the accommodations you might need is a little bit of flexibility on missing work occasionally, if you have a crash, Michael Newman 8:13 yes. And Unknown Speaker 8:18 oh, god, Michael Newman 8:19 oh, there was another accommodation that we had talked about. And that accommodation was when I get stressed out, I need like a moment to step back and just sort things out, kind of calm down, get things together, before you start working again. Betsy Furler 8:42 Yes, that's right. And I had said, I like 15 minutes and you said no more like five minutes, right? Michael Newman 8:47 So five tops. Betsy Furler 8:49 Yeah, not even a big deal. And what about I don't think I asked you before but what about what is your How do you like to learn new information? Do you like to read video To read watch a video here something, how to you are hands on learning? What do you think your best learning style is? Michael Newman 9:10 hands on learning would probably be the best. Betsy Furler 9:13 Okay, yeah, like going through so, yeah. So as we were, you know, on our last conversation we were talking about, you know, it's, you really don't need that many accommodations. And I think one of the things I was excited about having you on the podcast to talk about was the fact that someone could hire you, you would be a really loyal employee. And, and while you have a disability, you really need only about four things three or four accommodations that really aren't expensive or a big deal to implement because, you know, to have a little flexibility on if you need to come in late a day or so would you say a month or every couple of months when you have a crash Michael Newman 9:58 crushes really only have an episode whenever I get really stressed out, sometimes very, very rarely. I will miss miss medication, either at night or in the morning. And that can lead to some effects. But usually an episode doesn't happen often. Yes, probably a couple months. Betsy Furler 10:27 Yeah. So and then being able to take a moment away a couple of minutes, 235 minutes. And when you get overwhelmed, clear instruction, and and then maybe for your manager to know that when you're learning something new, you like to do hands on the walks instead of you know, giving it to you in written form, that having been able to walk through it is preferable to you, which that's not really even a common accommodation that's more like learning style and something that employers Do for everybody. So, um, yeah, I'm really excited. I can't wait to hear about what your job search looks like when you get there. And then you know what you what you end up doing because I think you could be you would be a really great employee for somebody. And really, they would really have to do very little for you. I really, I really wanted to point that out to people who are employers who are listening to my podcast, that there are so many times where you can get someone where they might be, you know, kind of, they don't know what to think or what to expect with someone who has artistic tendencies and bipolar. But once you get there on the workforce, you're kind of just like everybody else, you just need a couple of little couple of little things here and there that if your manager is aware of it doesn't even cost them any money or make any difference in your work. What you're doing Your productivity. Michael Newman 12:03 There's a one thing I didn't mention, though, when we start. And I think this would really help out my employers. Um, I've been told that this is very rare for people with bipolar. But I've been able to recognize what was going to lead to an episode like, I can recognize an episode before it happens. So people know, I'm going to have a problem. And this is what I need. Betsy Furler 12:36 That's Yeah, that's fantastic. That's definitely something you'll want to let your employers know that, you know, they you need, you basically need to be able to communicate with your managers. Yes. Yeah. Well, Michael, thank you again for being on the podcast. And I don't think the first time we recorded it, I asked you how people could connect with you did, I can't remember We've went through that. But if people want to, to email you, or I don't know if you're on LinkedIn or any social media, but is there any way that people could connect with you? Michael Newman 13:11 I'm really not on social media, but I'd be fine giving up my email address. Okay. Unknown Speaker 13:19 What's your email? Michael Newman 13:21 That'd be Michael Newman 199 seven@gmail.com. Betsy Furler 13:27 Awesome. And I will put that in the show notes. Because I know this is gonna be really helpful for other people out there who are both hiring people or other people that are looking for jobs or they're college students and families. So I thank you so much for doing this interview not once but twice. Michael Newman 13:48 I really appreciate it. Betsy Furler 13:52 And to my listeners, thank you so much for tuning in today. And please rate review and subscribe to my podcast. Cast on whatever podcast platform you're listening to, and tune in to the next episode. Thanks, Michael. And thank you. Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host, and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to us on. If you'd like to know more about what we do in our software that helps employer support their employees with ADHD dyslexia, learning differences in autism, please go to www dot for all abilities calm. You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler. It's f isn't Frank. You are le AR Have a great day and we will see you soon.
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Twenty Eight - Kristine Toon - A Mom Helping Her Son Find Employment with Autism and ADHD. In this episode, I interview Kristine Toon - mom of Michael. On the podcast, Kristine and I discuss Michael’s early years, his strengths and his college experience. We also discuss her dreams for his future employment. To connect with Kristine, please email her at jankdn@gmail.com. Join me on episode 29 when I interview her son Michael. Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome to for all abilities, the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Have a listen to for all abilities, the podcast and please subscribe on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to for all abilities, the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. And today I'm doing something a little different. I am talking to Christine toon, and she is the mom of two adult children with neuro diversity and we're going to talk a little bit about what their lives have been like and they're both kind of at a turning point of going from education to employment. So we're going to talk a bit a little bit about that. So, hi, Christine, thank you so much for being on the show. Hi. Nice to be here. Yes. And why don't you just introduce yourself a bit to my audience? Kristine Toon 1:14 Sure. I My name is Christine. And as she had said, I have two adult children that are moving to adulthood. They have had different challenges. One has had mostly autistic type symptoms, and that very high functioning but that comes with a whole nother set of problems when the world sees him because he looks very typical of other people. But then you find that he doesn't always understand things and they didn't know he didn't understand. And then my younger one is 23. And he has almost done with college. He'll graduate in December. But then we are now moving into a new part of his life where He's going to be looking for a job and trying to find the right employer for him. Betsy Furler 2:07 Awesome. And how old were they when they were diagnosed or you realize there was something different going on? Kristine Toon 2:13 Sure. Stephen was always the 25 year old was always quirky is what we called him. He did some odd things, but he was very bright and responsive to everything. He didn't speak until he was about a year old and they were odd words like I want this and that, and dog but he didn't say mommy and daddy and he pointed at most things. He was very fearful. And then when we put them in kindergarten, that's when everything kind of fell apart. I thought it was this perfect normal child as anyone who bought their first kid. And the first week of school, I got a phone call from the kindergarten teacher asking me to come into our conference. He was running away, not wanting to transition to anything, but just At home was fine, you know he they kind of train you in a way. And so, by the end of his kindergarten year, he was diagnosed with Asperger's. And then we started understanding the type of things he really needed to succeed. Michael on the other hand, he was older, he seemed more typical than Stephen did, but things fell apart in third grade. Bipolar started entering into his life, and he wouldn't remember things that he had done. And we were seeing some autistic tendencies also. So it was a long journey for us to get the right medications for the boys. Once they were put on the correct medications life did smooth out for us. It's still a challenge, but the out of control behaviors stopped by the time they hit junior high. Betsy Furler 3:56 Oh, that's a blessing because sometimes that's the worst time Kristine Toon 4:00 Yes, the medication route took from for Steven from kindergarten to fifth grade. And I know not everyone is into medications. But I must say today he started Risperdal. They're running away from school stopped. And Michael was probably third to sixth grade before the medications were evened out on him. Unknown Speaker 4:23 Wow, that's a long time long road. Kristine Toon 4:26 It was but thankful that we got there. So I'm not complaining because I know a lot of people give up or just don't want to get to that time period. Betsy Furler 4:38 So tell us what you have gone through talking with them and the rest of the family about what, what they might want to do as they transition out of school and into the workplace. Kristine Toon 4:52 That's been really difficult. Um, they both really like art. They love to draw. They like music. The problem with that is that there aren't always careers for that, of course, they wanted to design video games and they wanted to do web design in the typical things that we see with our kiddos. But that market is flooded a lot of times. So what I had suggested was they do those things as a side project and if it turns into something fantastic. If it doesn't, we need to have another plan also that that can be like a hobby to bring in extra money. That has gone well for my oldest Steven. We tried college with him but with his organizational skills, it wasn't really doable. And so he does music and art on the side and he does get some commission off of it. He does also work part time and receive a disability check to supplement. Michael doesn't really know what he wants to do right now. He is getting the degree So that he has something to fall back on. But, you know, we're concerned about finding the right employer that's willing to work with him. Betsy Furler 6:09 So for Michael, what type of job like he want to do? Like, would it be an office based job? Like, kind of what his skills be? And what do you think the accommodations he would need would be Kristine Toon 6:23 that I would assume he would really need an office job. The accommodations he would need would be clear instructions. Once he was comfortable with the job, he would be able to think outside the box. But in the beginning, he would meet clear direct instructions, and not to vary a bit. So our thoughts are, we're not sure how this is going to work. But our thoughts are get an entry level position in the larger company. Start from the bottom. Let them see he is a hard worker. He's willing to do things He is bright, and let them find the position for him. And like many of us, we didn't always know what we wanted to do when we got out of college. Some people have a clear direction on what they want. Maybe the employer can help guide him and then being in the workforce, he'll be able to find what he really enjoys doing. Betsy Furler 7:24 Yeah, that sounds I mean, and I don't you think that's pretty typical of a lot of people. I mean, I know when I was in college, my majors were psychology and sociology. And then I kind of landed, I kind of happened into a speech pathology program or communication disorders program and ended up kind of fat falling into my lap. But I think many people have at that age have no idea really what they want to do with the rest of their lives. Kristine Toon 7:52 I completely agree with you that our school districts now they're on kind of a track program where they they want them to pick His career in eighth grade and start molding them for that. And that's terrific, if you know what you want to do from an early age, but they're a little more lost sometimes. And I know that I am still some days trying to figure out what I want to do. I mean, I've been in the same jobs, banking for 15 years, and now I'm doing ministration work, but I think we kind of fall into what's good for us. And I'm really hoping that an employer is going to find his value, because it is there. Betsy Furler 8:38 What all have you done so far? Or is he done and looking for positions? Kristine Toon 8:45 that's been very difficult for Michael. Stephen, the older child is very outgoing, extremely social. The problem is Stephen doesn't have a filter, which doesn't seem to get him in trouble because people think that he's funny. Michael is more reserved and doesn't always give eye contact. And so he has looked for jobs and for two years, he was really unable to find anything. He'd have a job for a little bit. And they let him go for one reason or another. And recently the COVID thing, he did have a job as a dishwasher and was enjoying it. He was doing a good job, he they would call him and he he was getting lots of hours actually. But then COVID hit and of course that position went out of business. So it's it's not an easy finding, even part time jobs that were willing to work with, with him. And then we have the added problem of he needs to take medication, and the medication does today and so a lot of jobs for teens and young adults once you work to midnight. The hours or hours don't work for kids with disabilities. He needs to be home by 10 minutes. To take the medication so he can get up to do his classes The next morning, so he's not asleep now. Betsy Furler 10:07 Yeah, that is so true. That's a very good point. What are some other things like what do you think that employers could do to make a position Unknown Speaker 10:20 more appropriate for someone like Michael? Kristine Toon 10:25 Well, that's hard I, I work in a business office. And I have interviewed a few folks that I thought were on the spectrum. And when I do I desperately want to give them a chance because I know what what a valuable boy they would be. And then I have to weigh can they can they communicate with the people outside the office? How is that going to be perceived? It's so difficult when they don't look disabled. For people to not put too high of a standard on them, that they can't achieve, just the stress of the timelines are, are overwhelming. And, you know, right. Getting the top sternly to by an employer can destroy them where you and I would go, Well, they're having a crummy day. And for them, it could send them home. Really? Unknown Speaker 11:29 Yeah. I think sometimes it's the right boss. That's the right position. Kristine Toon 11:36 Yes. And I think that's going to be our largest challenge. And we have to, I must say, we have tried the government type programs where they help you find a job and we have found them in our area to be low level employment, that he would not be able to move out on his own and succeed. And that's our ultimate goal for kinos is for them to live the fullest life possible. But when they're only offering them minimum wage, you're never going to move up job. It's it's concerning? Betsy Furler 12:11 Yes. Right. I think that the other thing we talked about on the phone in the pre interview was talking about the fact that also he's going to need kind of some, you know, the ability, the freedom to take a day off here or there when he feels overwhelmed and needs that stress release, which I think you know, now more employers, I think are offering that but, you know, when you think about the entry level jobs, sometimes that type of accommodation isn't offered. But yet, it's so valuable, it might be more valuable for those employees than for the executives. Kristine Toon 12:48 Oh, absolutely. If I need a mental health day, I can take one, and I wouldn't call it that probably just like I need a day off. I can't take any more of this right now. Where they can't say that you come in, we need you now an hourly position that's just gonna be tolerated. Betsy Furler 13:10 Right. Right there. So, you know, I think I'm gonna hopefully interview Michael also for a podcast episode. I can't wait to hear his point of view. Yeah. And, you know, I think this is helpful information for employers out there who are looking to, you know, there's a really big push now for a lot of employers to to employ people with disabilities, and especially in our diversity, especially autism. Kristine Toon 13:43 And if they could really see the value of these kids, adults, they are dedicated. They want to work, they're driven, and most of all, they're pleasers, they, more so than entitlement. We see a lot of coming in and out. There's not a lot of entitlement because they haven't had a lot of entitlement. Right. Right a ton to offer and their rule followers, tell them this, it's going to be done what you say. Betsy Furler 14:15 Right. Right. And I think employers can make the accommodations that people need and kind of be also the flexibility. I think the flexibility is a huge piece that's very important for employers to think about. Is there anything else that you want to add, that might help an employer? Kristine Toon 14:36 The only other thing would be the importance of health insurance with these individuals with out good behavioral health care, and it's going to be hard for them to pay for that on the road. That's a concern. Betsy Furler 14:57 Right and also for many people Disability if they if they get SSI, and they're in Medicaid because of their SSI, which is a security income and kind of disability income for people who don't know that, and they may get a very small check for the SSI, but you know, $500 a month or something like that, but they also get Medicaid. And if you go to work, you lose that Medicare. Absolutely. And if you can't afford the private insurance to make up for that, Kristine Toon 15:31 you really can't work, Betsy Furler 15:32 even if you desperately want to work. And I think that's another factor that people need to realize that are often not not taken into account. Kristine Toon 15:43 Because the psych meds are not cheap. They they do, you do have to have a prescription for them. They have to be taken on a regular basis and insurances needed for those medications. Unknown Speaker 15:54 Right? Right. They're really prohibitive to pay out of pocket for especially for someone that entry level positions, Unknown Speaker 16:01 correct? Betsy Furler 16:03 Yeah. So Well, this was, I am so grateful that you have been willing to come on and be so candid. What is there anything else you want to tell us about your boys? Kristine Toon 16:17 They are incredibly intelligent and a lot of fun. I mean, we we laugh all the time. And I just wish everybody could see the joy that these people with autism in our case have that it is not so much disability as entertainment excitement. something new every day. Betsy Furler 16:40 Yes, and a different ability. Kristine Toon 16:42 Oh, absolutely. Yes. It's Betsy Furler 16:44 it. That's what I want people to realize. I even hate the word disability because it to me it's just a different ability. It's not less, that is just Unknown Speaker 16:53 different. Kristine Toon 16:55 Yes, they have things that I would never be able to see the world. in a beautiful way, and I just, I wish everyone could see what Betsy Furler 17:04 we get to see. Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, thank you so much for joining us. And if people want to connect with you, um, you know, maybe other moms or other people within our diversity or maybe employers who want more insight, how could they do that? The best way to connect with you? Kristine Toon 17:23 Absolutely, they can email me at jankdn@gmail.com I'll be happy to speak with them. And thank you so much for having me. Betsy Furler 17:37 Yes. And I will put that information in the show notes and, and listeners. Thanks so much for tuning in today. And please share this podcast with other people subscribe rate review, on in whatever podcast platform you're listening to. And please join us again as we talk about the amazing gifts that people have to think differently and work differently, and how our world is so much better when we all think and work differently. Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to us on. If you'd like to know more about what we do and our software that helps employer support their employees with ADHD dyslexia, learning differences in autism, please go to www dot for all abilities calm. You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler f as in Frank, you are elhuyar Have a great day and we will see you soon
For All Abilities – The Podcast: A High Acheivier with ADHD with De’Nicea Hilton In this episode, I interview Dr. De’Nicea Hilton. She is a Doctor of Oriental Medicine and creates playful, healing spaces for women. We had a fun, joy filled discussion about life and ADHD. We discuss the challenge of her very unusual diagnosis of ADHD as an adult while working in an adjacent field! We also discussed how she has navigated school and work with her unique brain. To connect with De’Nicea, please go to her website www.deniceahilton.com, follow her on LinkedIn (De’Nicea Hilton) and on Instagram at DeniceaHilton. Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription by Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:25 Hi, everybody. Welcome back to for all abilities the podcast. I am so excited that you're here to hear about another professional who is living and thriving and working with neuro diversity. Today we have Denise sia here with us and Denise, could you please introduce yourself to our audience? De’Nicea Hilton 0:49 Yes. Hey, Betsy, thank you so much for having me on your show. I'm so excited because I've not actually talked openly about this. Awesome Yeah, so I'm denisa Hilton, Doctor of Oriental medicine and holistic play activator. So I am in this space where I create these playful healing spaces, typically for women, so that they can embrace, embody and express their perfect, authentic selves. Betsy Furler 1:22 That's awesome. So we'll have to talk more about that as we get on with the show. But I first I want to tell us what you were like as a little girl and what was school like kind of in those early years elementary school years? De’Nicea Hilton 1:36 So let me think Let me think I was definitely one of those kids that I got along with other kids definitely got along with other kids. I would say that I was sensitive in a way that my mom would tell me as an adult, like how some things I might get sad over or I might have wanted. I do Be curious, asking questions, things like that. I definitely was also the one who took her time doing things and take my time doing things and then also exploring, um, there came a time when I was like a third think was third grade, second third grade, where it drew their attention to like me talking in class. And then who I thought I was just having a chat with, I later learned was a psychologist was testing me. And then that's when they found out that I was a perfectionist, and they are like, She's also gifted and advanced. And so basically, she's bored. So like, that's when they learned, okay, they my parents and my teachers, like Alright, well basically that's what it is. And so we gotta like step it up a notch. So my classes changed. So that was I was with I was getting a curriculum that was quote unquote tougher so that I would stay engaged. My mom totally like through me and some other activities and whatnot. I read a lot like reading was one of the things I love doing. And I still have some of my books from when I was little too. Betsy Furler 3:22 So were you a good student? Like were you making good grades? De’Nicea Hilton 3:27 Yeah, I totally was it was just what was causing my mom's attention was that it was taking me forever to do homework or sometimes like classwork. If I was the one who would be like one of the last to be done. And so that's where my mom was, you know, asking them like, what kind of work are y'all giving these kids because it's taking so long, but I would just be so engrossed in it. And I do recall, there are times and I'm like this even now and I have to leave catch myself when I'm doing it. Um, but like even just, you know, you're you're learning, you're in math. And then you're learning all like division and the addition and everything I was the one that I would seriously take my time writing so that all the numbers were lined up that the equal line was like perfectly online with a notebook paper. Unknown Speaker 4:25 Ah, De’Nicea Hilton 4:28 yeah. And so like if it was thrown off, like I was it for some reason, I think like, Oh, well, then my back would be off if, if they're not all perfectly lined up. And so I can see where I do that now. Even just drafting notes and, and whatnot, how I might go into that space of totally critiquing how I'm writing and then I'll have to, like, snap out of it, you know? Betsy Furler 4:53 Yeah. And that can really derail us from getting anything done from our productivity. By doing that, yeah, yeah. So as you went on in school, so then you were in the gifted program and what Where did you grow up? What area of the country? Us? I guess I should start with that. De’Nicea Hilton 5:11 Yeah, I'm in the US in the Tampa Bay, Florida area. Unknown Speaker 5:16 Where you're still are right. Yeah. Betsy Furler 5:19 And so as you, you know, went through elementary school and then middle and high school. How did I get in exchange for you at all? Or do Where did you still like, excel at academics? De’Nicea Hilton 5:32 Yeah, I still. It just got, I don't want to say it got harder because it wasn't really I mean, my mom was on top of it. She was very active in our academics. So she made sure that we were I was in the programs and the classes that I that I would Excel and I didn't really dip as in grades or anything. Like that, you know, a time I really dipped was in behavior in one class for talking. But that was pretty much it. Then I went into a magnet. Like at that time, there was only magnet schools. And then like the IB program, which many would know as the International Baccalaureate program. It wasn't available in middle school. So I ended up being accepted into the program and joining that program in high school. So pretty much from the time that I was tested and they switched over my classes. I was always in the classes that were going to challenge that and my mom made sure that I was and I just stayed on top of it. And you know, with all the projects and whatnot in middle school, I remember I remember one of my teachers even then I asked to be in she offered to that I would come into a different went to her classes because the class that I was slated for was a little bit too easy for me. And it was a language class. So then I would end up going to another one of her classes. So even then I was a little bit more advanced and in that regard, too, so I think like I just kind of in started taking on the like, is this easy way? Is there something else that I could do like because that's that's when I started channeling I guess what, what now I would say is boredom. Is is asking if there was anything more of right Betsy Furler 7:33 yeah. So you just like continually kind of challenged yourself to keep yourself from being bored and it sounds like you when you were young, or maybe your mom helped you with this. You were fairly organized. Unknown Speaker 7:46 I yeah, like De’Nicea Hilton 7:49 I really was actually not I think about it like some Well, well, sometimes depending on who it was. They might look at my room and be like what in the world is going is like otic mess, like you couldn't really like you couldn't be dirty like we just didn't and I wasn't really like that either. But I could see that there are times like, oh, and I got my first desk. I'm trying to organize my desk and put that in. Like, will this organization work for me? Like, I don't know. Like I just keep trying all these different things and even now Yeah, like I've it's, it has its moments and spots of very clear and then other times there's a pile or a few that Betsy Furler 8:39 so and then you went to college, obviously. And it did not go well academically. I guess I should, I guess. I'm glad for you. Well, I don't want to get your way out of order. But I want you to I do want you to tell the audience about your diagnosis because you have what your diagnosis is a little bit different. So, tell us what happened. You know what happened next? And obviously you were already working when you got the diagnosis. But anyway, go on with your story. De’Nicea Hilton 9:08 Yeah, um, did you want me to go into college? Or you want me to go? Betsy Furler 9:12 Yeah, yeah, just Yeah. Tell us how college was. De’Nicea Hilton 9:15 Yeah. Um, so I went to undergrad and I will now that we're talking about it, it's it's really making me think right like, and try to remember a lot of things. Um, during that time, I want to say that now I can appreciate that structure that I actually had that I didn't realize was structure. So I did struggle a little bit in college. Because there was just so much going on, where I was like, Oh, I want to go and do this like and just the different types of people that I met the different activities, the different organizations ended up like prioritizing those and then like I'm going to work now. So a lot of those things that became available is like, Oh, well, school stuff can kind of go by the wayside. And then what I learned towards the end, though, was that I realized just how much it is that I can work in spurts. So one of the tricks was that I learned going to summer school was the best thing for me. Because the classes were typically shorter, like if they were summer a or summer B, for those who may not know, so then it'll be like, instead of the full, like 1516 weeks, you go to classes for like seven weeks, eight weeks. And so then but your class frequency so going into class more often, actually, I realized helped me because it was like I'm going to I may be going to class more often during the week versus like the once or twice a week. During a fall or spring semester, but I mean, it was like the assignments were even like quicker to do, I could just go in there I'm so super focused. And because it was just that short time period and then boom, boom, boom, I'm out. And like, I remember one of my college advisors because I had to get permission to even take more credits during the semester than was actually allowed. Because I just told him I said, I'm just doing better in the summer so I want to maximize how many credits I can take over the summer, just so that I would basically be taking, taking advantage of how it is that I best work and also the timeframe like the time of the year, and this all is something that even now isn't talking about it is reflective of how I work now and like work work. I graduated and I started working on an internship and Then I went to grad school. And during grad school, I mean, that was a program where it was straight through, like, you could have taken breaks, but it was really designed for you to go straight through. And so we went for like 15 weeks, take two weeks off, and then you just came back and you kept going. It was very rigorous. And that it was, I mean, you were there all the time. So I think that even helped me because it was so physically I'm there. And then the classes tended to be more often as well. And then like with the assignments, so I learned that the more leeway I have in things, then it might take me longer to do it. Procrastination, and then all of a sudden, I would have created a way that I would work in spurts. So that's when I'd say okay, well, this is due so I'm just going to do this like within four or five days for us to Betsy Furler 12:56 that's exactly how I am I'm actually not diagnosed with it. The type of neuro diversity but I feel more ADHD day as the days go by, especially with the stay at home order. But it's interesting that you say that about procrastination because I'm the same way and the busier I am, the more organized and productive I am by far. And then my son, my son, he's in college is the same way and he's taking I don't remember how many he's taking a lot of hours for summer school, like I think, maybe 15. And over to summer, you know, over us, you know, half of them are a and half of them are beets. Yeah, term. And I'm like, oh, my goodness, it's so much and he's like, no, I can do it. And I think he's like you were, he actually asked me where we actually do better when we're busier. And, and the timelines are a little bit shorter. So you know, because we aren't we can work productively and we're, you know, smart and quick learners and when we can just get the get the content in and out. Done, it actually works better than than having a prolonged period of time that you can, you can procrastinate over. De’Nicea Hilton 14:09 Yeah, well, and you know what else to I noticed and I don't know if you're if if you were like this or your son's like this. I'm like, so I enjoy volunteering, right? And I ended up learning that, and especially if it's not, then I'm flaky. What it is, is that it actually goes along with the same way that I do I deal with, you know, something to do like projects or when I'm in school, it's actually project based. So like, I realized that I Excel much better when it is projects with these timeframes, like there's a start and an end. And if it's definitely shorter than wonderful, you know, hmm. So like versus the, versus the like, Oh, this you're gonna be here doing this. For so long, it's like, okay, like, if my commitment is like a year or two, and that's looming there, that's fine. But like, if you really want me to, like be of use, man get me in, in the creativity and idea phase. And then basically, I guess, show zoned into that. And then these projects that the time like, goes by so quickly, like, I know, it's already been like a year or two cool, because I would have had all these micro projects Betsy Furler 15:30 in my bed. That's what I I frequently recommend that for accommodations in the workplace is one, you know, more concrete deadlines for things for people, especially people with ADHD. And then also that kind of that traditional accommodation of extended timeline, you know, or extra time is sometimes actually harmful. For people with ADHD rather than helpful. De’Nicea Hilton 15:58 I could see that Because if you tell me Oh, well, you got some time, and I do like it. Unknown Speaker 16:05 Right then you might take it. Yeah, De’Nicea Hilton 16:09 yeah. But I may not have actually needed it in the beginning. Unknown Speaker 16:13 Right. It's right. It's right. De’Nicea Hilton 16:16 Yeah. And I've seen like, I mean, I, I will say like, to really like as an adult like so after, after actually like beginning to work in the, in the workplace, they do my internship. Um, there was, I'll say he's like, my first he was my first CEO, like professional CEO. And this man, like, was amazing in the sense that he was he was just so smart, so very smart. And you could sit in these meetings with him, and he might be very quiet and actually he might end up when he does talk. Like be very Curt into that. Right, like to the point, right? Uh huh. Um, and at first, I was one of those like Dang, like, is he was kind of harsh, like you're, and then I'm going, actually I really wasn't harsh. It was just a huge to the point, right. And then there were all these other little things that he might do. Like he might have something in his hands, and he's playing with it or sometimes even then he would get up and walk into his office because like, sometimes you'd have these meetings and there'd be a conference room that was split by a door that was leading into his office. So even then you might perceive based on his actions, that he's not paying attention, or that he's actually not like engaged in the meeting. But in actuality, I ended up learning and appreciating him doing it because it was really his way of handling his own. Like bouncing his mind possibly bouncing, but he's totally engaged in a meeting and then all of a sudden you He would say something and it'd be like, so profound decisions made. Let's move on. Like, yeah, like you it was like that space to hear people out and whatnot. But then also like what I from that, I even felt encouraged that if that's what I needed to do, then that's what I need to do. And I now might say something to people ahead of time so that they understand that it's not that I'm not paying attention is just, this is how I'm processing like, and I'm, it's like a tactful way to keep me present and engaged. Right. Right. And so then that's where it is that I feel like other people might want to actually do a self assessment. Right? Like, what judgments is it that you might be projecting? Because that's, it's based out of your perceived notion of what engagement looks like? Right? Right. Right, right. And so it's like when you understand that then you can be very mindful of, you know, when it is that you might go into a meeting or when it is you might be with a friend or something like that, and you think that they're totally not in there, but they actually might be. Or even with the kids, right? Like, it's just a matter of like, totally finding something to help keep them actually engaged in a way that's tempered and so ever otherwise, it'd be like, a complete space like I wouldn't even mentally be there totally not even paying attention. Because in that environment that you want me to be you want me to have like this quote, unquote, societally acceptable way of being in a meeting. Right? Like, Betsy Furler 19:46 right, if that doesn't work for your brain De’Nicea Hilton 19:48 at all. Right? Right. So it's like, how can you accommodate and sometimes it's, I literally have a mini container playdough that I keep in my purse, just in case I am somewhere like, our video is off, but I'm talking with my hands a lot like, with. So if I'm in a place where I'm not talking, but I'm predominantly listening in that way, then my hands can still be moving. And I'm still totally there is my hands are moving. Betsy Furler 20:18 Yeah. So you got Yeah, you have that, you know, you know, what your brain and body needs in order to be able to focus and, and be productive and efficient and which i think i think that's so important, you know, the more interviews I do with people and, and think about all sorts of neuro diversity or just, you know, even people who don't have a diagnosis or even a, you know, who, you know, do are quote unquote typical which I don't think there is anybody, but, um, you know, we all we all think so differently, which is The beauty of our world I mean, I really believe if we could embrace everyone's differences, and all different types, that everything works so much better. De’Nicea Hilton 21:11 Yeah. Like, I feel like if it's, if we can just realize and see that what we can all connect on, is in the diversity of thinking that diversity of creativity, like, it's almost like just as much as it is that you want somebody to, to listen and understand and accept you for you. We have to extend that to others. Hmm. And then, you know, go the extra step of actually allowing that to happen like in that space, and detaching from the outcome that you're looking for. Because that's usually where the friction comes is like, well, it's not in the package that you deemed and that you wanted, right? All right. So then that's how we can create like these boxes for people to, that we want them to live in. And really those boxes that end up being created out of one's own fear and fear of something different fear of them possibly having some type of control over you something that is there. And so we tend to create those so that we can try to manage and temper our own. But it ends up putting like other people in these boxes and then ends up, you know, coming back and then hurting you in some way along the way. But really all it is if you strip all that away is that we all really want to be, like celebrated for who we are, like, sometimes even question like, are they differences or are they actually similarities? I believe that right, I just want to be who we are. And then that's it like, Betsy Furler 22:50 yeah, you know, it's the reason that I hate them. I hate the term disability because I think we all have different abilities, and in one shouldn't not be less. Yeah, you know, they're just all different. And, you know, not to get too much into the, into racism and that, you know, huge topic. But I see the similarity there were it's like, you know, if we could just embrace how different every single person is. And, and, and appreciate the difference instead of trying to fit people into those boxes that you were talking about. And I do think fear makes people put people in boxes. Yeah, it's literally De’Nicea Hilton 23:38 how you try to control something. Betsy Furler 23:41 Right. Right. Right. Right fear and then and trying to get trying to control and trying to, you know, fear of yourself as well as fear of other people. Yeah, I think De’Nicea Hilton 23:52 that was one of the biggest things that I will say that I learned when, like one of my favorite books and I mean that one line stuck out To me at that time, and it's still something that lingers as far as like something that I'll think about if I even personally feel like I'm trying to control something. And that was in the seven spiritual laws of success by Deepak Chopra where he that was my first coming across it, where it is control and where it is that we try to control is typically based out of fear. And so you'd have to like, you know, ask yourself, like, where is it that I'm trying to control? And then, you know, for those who might be caregivers, for those who might have all of these different abilities, right, or even the ones that might have it, it's really seeing that this is our way of being in this life. And so we all have these bits and pieces, and it's really us learning how can we use them in a way that's so that's uplifting and powerful and empowering to our own spirits. And then also how it is that we can connect to the greater consciousness and the greater humankind. And so when we might start to control these things, you know, for others, then ask yourself like, what is it that I'm actually really afraid of? Like if I have to go to these lengths to control this? What am I afraid of? Betsy Furler 25:28 Right, right. Yes, that that's so true. So true. It has been so true in my life. You know, I've lived that personally too. So before we went out of time, you got to tell my audience about your diagnosed diagnosis. Yes. Unknown Speaker 25:47 Did you tell people what happened with you? That's what De’Nicea Hilton 25:51 the tangents really Betsy Furler 25:55 are the best. De’Nicea Hilton 25:58 Betsy, I have to tell you, there's something Else to that helped me, but I'll say a promise after the diagnosis thing. So I actually was in I had started my practice. And I ended up being fortunate enough to rent an office space, where I was actually in a psychologist office, and it was a psychologist and other mental health counselors and whatnot. And it was so funny because I'm the only one who's like out there, and I'm like, yeah, I'm doing acupuncture and herbs and all of this greatness in the midst of this office. So it was interesting, but I loved it. Because my training, the school that I chose to go to had a really heavy focus on what it's called contemporary Oriental Medicine, but the founder of the school is a classically trained psychiatrist. And so he founded it after his own apprenticeship really decade's long apprenticeship with Dr. Shin where because of his size Big practice, he just like, he's like there's something missing as far as what I've been taught to help people. And so he ended up with going in and studying as an apprentice and then basically learned all of these this different, completely different way to see the person as a whole, you know, so a lot of my training is even then with heavy like mental emotional background, and I really took to that. So I guess that's why it probably felt like home going into that office space. And talking about these things with these people. So anyways, one of them. Dr. Lauren, like, she and I were talking one day, and then she literally interjects right in the middle of conversation, nothing at all about this. She just goes, You do realize that you have ADHD, right? And I said, you know, and I think I looked at her and I was just like, I wouldn't be surprised. Unknown Speaker 27:56 Like it was almost like De’Nicea Hilton 27:59 I didn't even really need that. I have a diagnosis that I could totally see it. And she's like, I mean, cuz you can really go. You know, she's like describing my behavior and stuff, just having our regular conversations. So I thought that was like, hilarious because I was like, to me, that was my unofficial official diagnosis. Unknown Speaker 28:20 Yes. And I love it because I think it, it really speaks to Betsy Furler 28:27 you got a long way in school, you know, with with a no diagnosis. And when you think about how many kids out there might be and he probably didn't need the diagnosis. I mean, obviously, your mom had it under control. And you also were able to compensate and I think being able to compensate and adapt is so such a such a valuable skill. But, you know, then you think back and you're like, you know, what, if What if little disneysea in when she was eight years old, what if people would have understood this about In your brain, and what might have been different and what you know, like, and, you know, maybe it, maybe it just would have been like, you know, oh, that's why you get bored so easily. And let's just continue feeding your brain because that's what your brain needs, you know, I mean, you kind of figure that out on your own. But it does make you wonder when someone's diagnosed later in life, which I would say, over 50% of my podcast, guests have been diagnosed as adults, rather than as pets, either with ADHD or autism, and it's really, you know, it'll be interesting to see in the next 20 years what the trend is about that, but I do I also do love it. And I had told you this before we did the show, but I'll tell my listeners, I was like, I love it when things like that happen with professionals because we're all you know, like, you know, somebody will tell me they have ADHD and I'm like, a high you do? Or they'll say, Oh, yeah, I was in speech therapy, as I And I'm like, yeah, yeah. Unknown Speaker 30:05 So, yeah, Betsy Furler 30:07 I think it also is like, you know, I want people to embrace all of these differences about themselves as well and not be embarrassed or ashamed to talk about it. And so I love it when people like you will come on my show and, you know, you're successful, you have this amazing career that you've got to tell us a little bit about and how people can reach you. And, and you've, you've obviously really embraced your true self and and I can tell, you know, in your spirit that that has, that's, that's what really makes you successful as embracing yourself. De’Nicea Hilton 30:44 Thank you so much for that. Yeah. And it's where those times where I didn't think that I was and there are definitely some times that I could see where I really wasn't honoring myself in that regard. And you can see I could see the difference, you know, in things that were going on in my life. And like, I think that it's really, I think it's so important to see, you know, even with the kids now, like, where they say that they did get a diagnosis, like sometimes if I if I hadn't gotten a diagnosis like, thank goodness, I didn't Be it just based on what I've been hearing has been happening for the children like, like, Betsy Furler 31:24 it's it's worse because then you're even more than then people are trying harder to put you in a box. De’Nicea Hilton 31:30 Yeah. And I think like, I think the difference and how it comes out, like how it's manifested, also played a role, you know, so like, Sure, it might have taken like what they saw was, and I can see how this could be misconstrued, right? So it's like, Okay, I see that as she's diligently working and it's just taking her longer time to work. But then what really triggered their attention was quote, unquote, behavior like misbehavior, right. And so like, Had but you see was a multi factor, like my mom was like really involved and the teachers like she pushed for things for both my sister and my and myself so right, um, that is a huge difference. I think also in like if your other guests they may not have had as many behavioral issues like it seems like if they behavior isn't sit in a desk in and sit straight up, you know, like but I have been blessed to like that it came out in that way and then the times that I was behavior I wasn't like ostracized or or put in a box. I've even had some teachers that literally and this happened in grad school where she did not take offense to if you were writing or if she saw you were on the computer potentially on something else because she acknowledged that we have different ways of learning. And so the more that we can create those spaces where we don't see it, as problem, but if you just opened up more to learn more about that person, and then seeing, you know what it is that they really need, like who, right? You know, then it's if you actually pay attention, you can see it. And so then just being Welcome to that I think makes a huge difference. One of the things that did help me too is actually getting looking at my human design chart. And in very strong in my human design chart is what somebody might classify as a characteristic of having ADHD, which is like a whole bunch of ideas happening all the time at the same time or jumping around like that actually is a part of even then just that. Part of me that is is like, Oh, that's my that's my sin, my chart and this human design chart. That's pretty awesome. Betsy Furler 33:54 And that is also something a trait that can be considered a problem when You're a child and you're sitting in a classroom, and you're not thinking about the thing you're supposed to be thinking about, right at that point, because you have so many other creative ideas, but then when you get out into the, into the real world, having all of those ideas, you know, especially when you're an entrepreneur or, you know, within, you know, trying building your own business of whatever type it is, then all of a sudden, that's like, the skill you need to have. Yeah, isn't it? It's like, how, De’Nicea Hilton 34:30 how, like, you can throw somebody's show off when it's like, oh, Shut, shut this down, shut this down, just because you're at this age, just because it's not seen. It's not, you know, well, it's not as welcomed. Because at that time frame, what it is, is as a culture, we're saying to children, like no, you just kind of do what I say. And then instead, it's so it's kind of like squashing a bit like have that idea that creativity And then now as adults what now we got to hire people to do workshops on bringing in your creativity. Unknown Speaker 35:05 Exactly. De’Nicea Hilton 35:06 Something like that. Betsy Furler 35:08 I say that to be an entrepreneur, I've had to unlearn so many of the skills that served me very well as a child in school. Yeah. So you know, so so how can my listeners find you if they want to connect with you? De’Nicea Hilton 35:25 Oh, yeah, so definitely I'm connected me anybody if you would like to. You can totally see that I work with some the things that Betsy pointed out as far as embracing like, really who I am and then how it is that I can translate that into my life, but then also in business where it is that I do work with these women and helping them to come into really allowing themselves to be who they are. And sometimes we might need that guidance, to help get through those layers that we've got examples of coming from family or coming from society where we do feel like we're lost you it may not sometimes even seem like we are lost. But it might come out in ways such as I digestive issues, or anxiety or depression or menstrual cycle disorders like that kind of thing. Those are the physical things that I look for, that's letting me know, they're in herself and their higher self is not actually showing and it's screaming at them, calling your attention. And so that's where it is that I've created this, this business in a way of being able to guide women and being able to see who she is and then being confident and expressing that. So if that is you and you're like, I'm driving, I'm digging her. Totally Come on in. My website is Denise dia hilton.com says D and I see EAA Hilton h l t o n.com. That's my main spot. And it's also a denisa Hilton on Facebook and LinkedIn. That's where I'm most active. Betsy Furler 37:01 Awesome. And do you see patients via tele medicine or only in person? De’Nicea Hilton 37:07 And do telemedicine? Definitely Yes. And I actually have completely separate programs where it's not like you would have to be a patient to quote unquote, but you can totally be a member and be someone that I consult with. So that's how I do my holistic play consulting. And I just bring in the knowledge and the skills from practicing as a doctor of oriental medicine and applying it in this way. Betsy Furler 37:33 Awesome. Yay. So that is great information that will be in the show notes. And it has been a pleasure having you on the show today. Thank you so much for being willing to do this. Hey, thank you so much for holding the space for people like us. Yes, and to my listeners. Thank you so much for tuning in today and please share the episode please rate review, subscribe. To the podcast on whatever podcast platform you're listening to this on and I will see you all soon.
For All Abilities – The Podcast: ADHD and Creativity with Julia D’Ambrosi In this episode, I interview Julia D’Ambrosi. We discuss the challenges and the benefits of her diagnosis of ADHD. Julia and I attended the same small, liberal arts college and we talk about the challenges she faced in college. We also discuss how she has navigated work with the diagnosis. Julia is a very creative art teacher and she has a YouTube channnel where she teaches children and adults how to complete fun art projects at home. To connect with Julia, please go to her YouTube channel http://youtube.com/c/creativitytimewithjuliamajor ,follow her on LinkedIn (Julia D’Ambrosi) and on Facebook at artpoet paintings and @creativityjulia on Twitter. Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Betsy Furler 0:06 Hi, everybody, welcome back to the for all abilities Podcast. I am so excited to be back with another special guest. And again, this podcast is all about showing the world the amazing things that people who have brains who work a little bit differently than what we consider the norm are doing for our world. So as you listen to this podcast, please also share it rate review, subscribe, you can do that on the podcast platform that you're listening to it to this on. And please go back and listen to my past episodes I should have by the time this episode airs I should have about 25 out there. And also you can feel free to follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy walling Furler. It's f you are LR and you can also find out more about this topic. software and consulting services that I offer to employers to help them support their employees with ADHD dyslexia learning differences in autism. Get find out that information at www dot for all abilities calm. So without further ado, let's welcome our guest today, Julia. Hi Julia, can you please introduce yourself to my audience? Julie DAmbrosi 1:24 Hi. I'm nice to get to be here. I'm really excited about this. I'm always passionate about learning differences. I am Julia D and Rosie major. I grew up as Julia de ambrozy but now I'm Julia major. And I have a strong background in theater. But now I'm a visual art teacher for elementary school in the District of Columbia, DC public schools called Horace Mann elementary school, and I have been teaching art for three years and I absolutely love it. I also during this pandemic have recently started my own YouTube channel called creativity time with Julia major. And it's focused on art lessons that emphasize creativity basically really open ended art projects and art ideas that can be used by both kids and adults rather than just cookie cutter crafts. Betsy Furler 2:23 Yes, and there are so much fun. I've watched some of your videos, and I just love them. And I found Julia because we both went to Austin college up in Sherman, Texas. And we're going to talk a little bit about our experiences up there and a little, you know, a little bit further into the interview. But I found Julia through our amazing alumni page, our college is tiny, and I think over 25% of living alumni are on the Facebook group together. And that's been really fun. So I'm so glad I found you over there as well. Yes, it is a really Julie DAmbrosi 3:02 vibrant community of people from Austin College in DC to considering how small the school is. So that's kind of fun. Betsy Furler 3:08 Oh, wow. That's amazing. That's a Yeah, I love getting together with my Austin college friends. I was with one of my sorority sisters yesterday, actually. So, I'm glad to meet you and I'm so happy you're on the show. And I always ask my guests First off, what were you like when you were a little girl? So can you tell us a little bit about your childhood? Julie DAmbrosi 3:32 Absolutely. Um, sometimes I think about you know, people ask that question of like, what would be adult version of you feel like if they met the kid version of you. And I think that I grow closer and closer to the kid version of me with every day. There might have been a little part where who's different, but I'm very similar to the kid version of me. She like all the same things. I was diagnosed around I think age nine with ADHD sometimes they would say non hyperactive type sometimes they would say combined type and I know the DSM on that and all that has changed from time to time. But basically mainly inattentive ABB and I repeated first grade. Which is another thing that I have reflected on a lot. Because the funny thing is, I think a lot of what first grade involved I would still be not very great at um, and my strengths are creative thinking and engaging with other people and connecting and I'm not necessarily the strongest person that quickly tying shoes or things like that hood first grade really values Betsy Furler 4:48 and first grade is a lot about sitting in the desk or sitting at circle time on a rug in your spot and absolutely not moving a lot of paradeen and not a lot of Julie DAmbrosi 5:00 Being more in depth. I also joke that as I've gotten older, the very things that got me in trouble when I was younger in terms of answering questions are the things that they love when you get older in graduate school, they're like, don't just answer the question, dig deeper, dig deeper. And that was the sort of thing that got you in trouble in first grade. Not that I had. I actually have an absolutely remarkable teacher in pre K, kindergarten, first grade, I had her for all three years. And then I repeated first grade and she actually because she respected kids so much asked me Do I want to have her as a teacher again, and I won an adventure. So I saw another teacher, but to this day, she's one of the best teachers I ever had. But just the system of schools in first grade is really a lot about handwriting and rote tasks. And I also have dysgraphia. So handwriting was a real struggle for me. And I mean, that is one big difference between me as a kid and now I was really late to read I severely struggled with reading it was a big part of why I repeated first grade. And now I read in the 99th percentile almost any time when I've been tested on anything for reading and I absolutely love reading. Betsy Furler 6:14 Wow, yeah, I, I was a very good student. And very I'm a kind of am in, you know, kind of kind of in that imaginary box of norm. And I did very well in school because I was very obedient and I was quiet and I didn't get distracted and I followed the rules and a lot of that I've had to unlearn actually as an adult, because those skills that are really serve you well, when you're in first grade, don't serve you so well when you're an entrepreneur. So I've had to unlearn so much of that. As I've grown up. Julie DAmbrosi 6:55 Absolutely. I think that's also something that a lot of women in general feel with With sort of das idleness I was not I was not a kid who really got in trouble for squirming or, you know, talking out of hand. I mean, maybe a little bit like you suck here I'm a little overeager, but in general, I didn't get in trouble in school. Um, I my struggles were with homework and things like that, in fact, actually growing up a moment that really shocked me. I can't remember what grade I was in, but I was in seventh grade and the kid said, I bet you've never had a bee in your whole life. And what they meant, you know, they thought I was a straight A student, they thought I was top of the class and they didn't realize that I was a kid who frequently got you know, B's and C's and work really hard for them. Um, I also got quite a few days to but I was never a straight A student. And I was never someone that school came easily to me even though I often was someone that teachers really respected. I even had an AP history teacher in high school. who looked at I think I had like a C plus I think I eventually brought it up to like a B plus. But he looked at my grade and said he had no idea how I had that low grade. He's like, you're one of the best smartest people in the class and you know, all this stuff. How was this your grade? Like? I don't, I don't know. You don't need all of them work tried. Um, so yeah, I've, I've Oh, I've always Um, there's a book called The twice exceptional child. And I think the fact even that I read it. I read it, maybe in high school, but I think probably like middle school, my parents would have books about learning differences and things on the shelves and I would find them and read them myself, which I think already sort of shows the precocious side of me, and I read it and it said, having one foot in ice and one foot in fire doesn't make you look warm. And I thought that was one of the best descriptions of how I felt as a kid. I had a lot of teachers who thought I wasn't trying hard enough because They saw me and they saw it was right. And they they just couldn't understand the inconsistencies in me. Betsy Furler 9:07 Right, right. Yeah, I think that happens so many so many times with with people who are, do have the TV thing going I know that my son is the same he has severe medical issues but he's also very exceptionally gifted. And so it's been it's it's interesting to navigate the school system, especially when you when you are a person who's like that and I also wanted to add that I think 100% of the people that I've interviewed for my podcast who have ADHD or a DD have mentioned the struggle with homework. I think it's a that is such a thread that runs through everybody. So what about high school? How did you do in high school, you said A little bit about AP obviously you were taking advanced classes. Julie DAmbrosi 10:04 Yes, I had and I had to fight to be in those again. It was just so funny that the extremes of things I scored high enough on a standardized test that we had to take that it they put me in like a john hopkins study where you took the LSAT when you were in fifth grade. But I scored low enough on the punctuation side of things that they wouldn't let me be in honors English when I was in school. And finally in middle school, they had an essay test that I did well enough on to allow me to be in honors English, which was a huge goal of mine was something I really wanted all my friends were an honors English, I was passionate reading, I wanted to be an honors English and they automatically assumed because they knew that I had add and learning differences that I shouldn't be an honors English. So they talked about there being a second teacher in my classroom and I broke into tears and my mom didn't understand what upset. And I said they're obviously you know, talking about a teacher who is an assistant for kids with needs. And my mom was like, I don't think so. And I was like, Yeah, they're not putting me in honors. And we looked at and we, we called and we spoke with the counselor. And sure enough, they were going to put me in non honors and she basically tried to intimidate me into not going into honors and AP English, and said, You know, like, well, it's basically your own funeral if you do this, and I said, I'm going to do it. Because the way I looked at it, I said, you know, they're all they're gonna have spelling and punctuation and both English is the difference is going to be how much Shakespeare right? And so sure enough, I did honors English and it wasn't easy for me. But um, I did really well and I had some amazing English teachers in high school and high school in general. I chose to go to um, it was not a charter schools, a traditional public school, but it was a school that you chose to go to my brother went to it school wasn't a magnet school either. It's a very weird thing called school of choice that I've never heard before since. But you had to get in by lottery. And people thought it was strange because my brother's school was very well respected that I want to go to this other school, but I went there and I was so lucky because the schedule let me take more classes. And it allowed me to take theater and allowed me to take visual art. And I really loved my high school was a very eccentric High School, but I loved it there. And I loved that people really smart, interesting. Well, it was actually really nice time. It's funny, because since then, almost every friend I've ever made, has said that high school is a terrible time almost every person I meet that seems to have similar personalities that high school is terrible, but high school is pretty nice. For me. It was much better than Elementary, which was really difficult. And also I heard in your one of your other podcasts, you said that every pretty much every person you've spoke to had an experience with a club or something being a lifesaver. theater was something I got into in fifth grade. And I cannot imagine my life without it. It was saving for me in so many ways. It gave me confidence when I had none. And it gave me a place where people treated me like I was smart. And I wasn't just you know how I did on homework. That was a lifesaver for me. Betsy Furler 13:25 I think it's so important for people to find their tribe. Julie DAmbrosi 13:29 Yes. Betsy Furler 13:31 So our college we went to Austin college and Sherman, Texas, and you know, we always have to add the tagline. It's a small liberal arts college, and it's very far in North Texas, almost Oklahoma. And we're the kangaroos. So our college is a very academically challenging college. So I would love to hear how you how you decided on Austin college and then how that experience went for you. I know that in the preamble interview I had told you that when I was at Austin college, I'm a really good writer. That's kind of one of my strengths. But it was a lot of writing. I think it's, I can't wait to hear what you have to say about the amount of writing, reading and writing that you had to do there. So how did you choose AC? Julie DAmbrosi 14:22 Um, I had a second cousin who went there. And my mom is from Texas. And I was looking at the book colleges that change lives. And there were a lot of, sorry, a little bit of noise behind me. There were a lot of schools in that book that really interested me. And my mom kind of was just like, you know, you should look at the school too. And I wasn't that interested in it. But when I visited I was just so impressed by how intellectually passionate the people at the school were. And how diverse the school was in terms of people's interests. I wish it was more diverse in other ways, but that really spoke to me. And so that is what convinced me to go there. Betsy Furler 15:13 Awesome. So when she got there, and what? how did how did it go? Julie DAmbrosi 15:20 Um, it was a little rocky. Um, I wish I could say when better than it did. I made a lot of really great friends. I was in a sorority that I really enjoyed. Which sorority were you in? I was in Beta Sigma Chi, which I actually remember looking at my agenda when I first got to Austin college and laughing at their motto because I thought it was bogus. It was individuality. And that sounded like they were just making it up. But they really embody that a lot. And I really felt supported by them. So I'm grateful. I did it. I'm people are always shocked that I was in a sorority and I don't consider myself to fit a lot of the stereotypes of sorority. I'm sure many people in sororities and fraternities feel that way. But I think I probably wasn't ever cut out for like a big sorority. It was very small. When I joined I was the reason that they didn't go under basically, I was a freshman in my pledge class. Oh, wow. Another person who was a senior and another senior, um, Betsy Furler 16:34 but I was like patho. And for for all the listeners, which are probably, you know, 99.9% of them who don't understand Austin college. They're all local sororities and fraternities. And the Kappas were are the loud, the loud, purple people. I think I think our color perfectly represents us, but I think that's Data started the year I was a freshman or maybe the year before. Julie DAmbrosi 17:05 I started in 1987. But I'm not actually positive but close to that close to that year. Betsy Furler 17:14 So But yeah, I love the Greek system at Austin college because I think again, it kind of it gives you a tribe and it's so helpful for alumni events, and homecoming, you know, it's, it's so nice to go back. I'm super outgoing, but it's still really nice to go back and have a group that you belong to to go back to. Julie DAmbrosi 17:40 Yeah, for me it was really interesting that I like to think that I attracted a diverse group of people but in the sorority I there was probably a wide variety of people than any other group I've been in and it was really interesting to be part of a group that wasn't interest base. But yeah, I'm I met them at a poetry slam with I think says a lot about the sorority and a lot about me that was actually one of my favorite things at Austin college by far was the poetry slams. And I looking back I really wish that I had been more involved with the organization that man then I went to the meeting really early on my freshman year and didn't seem to click with them, but then went to the slams themselves. And it was one of the places that I felt most support and most treated like I was intelligent. I really loved it. Um, I studied Betsy Furler 18:29 major. Julie DAmbrosi 18:30 Yes, I was gonna say, Yeah, I studied Communication Arts, which they later changed. Like they changed the name as I was graduating to communication studies. But now it would be a theater major, it was theater emphasis then, but yes, that is what I studied. And I was in I had a theater scholarship, and I was in some plays. But I didn't get cast and very much which was hard for me because at that point, being in place had been a huge part of my life. Since I was in fifth grade believe in before that, um, but I'm kind of glad to because it gave me time for what I most valued at Austin college which was just sitting around the fireplace and having intellectual conversation with people. And I think if I had been both in plays and doing schoolwork, there's no way we would have had time for that. Betsy Furler 19:24 I think that's the same. I mean, I I still love talking to my friends from us in college, and I loved talking to them back when we were in school and both in and out of class rooms, the level of like, diversity in thought, but respect for other people's thoughts, whether they're the same as yours or different. was really, really amazing. Sam did some Tell me about academic workload. Julie DAmbrosi 20:03 Yeah. So I was gonna say in terms of going back to your question, um, I, it was really hard for me how much writing was it awesome college, I wouldn't say I'm a bad writer, I can be really strong writer. But writing is probably now I guess when it comes to differences between me as a kid and me now. Or, I guess more similarities. Writing is the hardest thing for me. And I think I've only really recently come to realize that that homework was such a struggle was because of writing just in general writing is very hard for me because I always have a million thoughts and when I write I get overwhelmed by those thoughts. It's just like having 10 writers in my head instead of one I always say I don't have writer's block. I have writer's slug. Um, so that was really difficult. And there was just so much fun. Writing required and it was very poor writing, I do much better when it's more informal writing and graded creative writing, even though I have some struggles with that as well. And sometimes I write amazing essays, but the level at which they consistently wanted you to be writing content and writing was hard. And also, to be honest, one thing that was strange that I fully never experienced before or sins was a bit of a creative burnout. Um, my, under. So my minor was in visual art. And it was really hard because I was being asked to write formal writing but also semi creative writing. Uh huh. I'm, um, there was no escape into something where you could just be like, you know, let me like I had friends who would like open their books, their query met and they were just studying something. I like never had anything to just study other than occasionally lines. So if you were feeling overwhelmed or feeling like you didn't have ideas that you just had to do it and keep coming up with ideas, also, I found out just a little info to everybody. Be wary of turpentine because secondhand turpentine was giving me a sort of artistic with RG. Oh, I didn't realize until we built the new art building, which they bought my senior year. And I thought I was in a bit of a painter slump. But actually, when I switch to the new building, I was just churning out paintings. And I think that was because of turpentine. I had to ask for special permission not to paint with oils because I knew that turpentine made me feel bad, but I didn't realize that was happening secondhand to I thought I was just tired or something. And but yeah, it was amazing. When I switched I was I had such productivity that somebody in my class that's like, what's in the water you're drinking and I was like, what's not in the water? Betsy Furler 23:00 So and I i wonder too because the the writing load when I was at we were at we were at Austin college a couple of decades apart but what but I don't think it's changed that much or changed in between the time so we were there about when I was there I my concentrations war, psychology and sociology and then I had enough religion credits that I would have had a minor had the school recognize minors and so obviously a heavy load of writing type classes but I mean I would consistently be have four to five research papers a week. And you know, these were, I don't know, six to seven to eight page long papers each, which is really when you think about it such a heavy load and I wonder if that also like suppressed your create tivity because you are constantly having to put out all of this written work. And I do think on a good note, as far as I'm concerned is I can knock out content like nobody's business for my businesses now because to me writing a, you know, a little LinkedIn article is like, I just knocked that out in about 10 minutes, because Austin college trained to me so well, to just produce written content. Julie DAmbrosi 24:35 Yes, I very much agree. I didn't have quite that load. But when I went to graduate school, I was absolutely floored, floored that people were complaining about the amount of research papers we had to write, because it was nothing compared to Austin college. And also just again, going back to that issue of what you're writing on Research Papers made sense in graduate school. And there were some crazy assignments in terms of lesson plans and things. But I was so excited to write a research paper on something that seemed like it needed a research paper, there was some really strange sort of do research about plays or playwrights or acting theorists, where it was really hard to find something that seemed concrete enough to write about in that sort of format on and again, like I said, being overwhelmed by possibilities. So it was really nice. Like, actually, I remember one of my easiest classes that Austin college was environmental science because even though it's a complicated issue, there was some some concrete things and I just, it's I'm a very creative person, but it's one of those things about the yin and yang of, I guess, needing some structure. I love open ended things but only if they're truly opening ended when something is like kind of sort of open ended, but you're being judged on it in a certain way. I often take a route. That's not what people wanted or expected. And that can be a blessing or a curse. So I think that happened in Austin college sometimes. But yes, I don't regret going there. And there's amazing people there. And I absolutely I loved Terry hoops in the anthropology department. He was phenomenal. And I think so good at adapting. Um, I really do think one thing I would change about Austin college I think writing is really important. But allowing, I believe in Universal Design for Learning and allowing more ways for people to express knowledge and just writing if you want to teach writing to teach writing, that's great. And everyone should learn it to some degree. But if that's the only way you're judging what people know, it is going to give an automatic advantage to people who are really great at writing and really create a deficit for anyone who's Not Betsy Furler 27:00 Right, right. So that, um, what do you think, with your ADHD and your dysgraphia? And how or what other kind of drawbacks Do you think they they gave during college and then what? What strengths Did you grow from it? It sounds like your creativity is really one of your major strengths and that I know a lot of people with ADHD who are extremely creative as well and really can think outside the box. Julie DAmbrosi 27:38 Yeah, um, I think Yeah, those strengths and weaknesses are really intertwined. It's really hard to separate them from each other. I also always talk about like, how I'm a paradox is one of the things I like to really refer to myself as, um, but I would say, just in general in academic settings, Strength and a weakness for me is that I'm, I really genuinely love learning. And I think there's a lot of great stuff out school. I'm not someone who wants to dig on school, I work as a teacher, I believe that you're working really hard. But a lot of school is set up for like the quickest, easiest answer. They say they want you to go deep, but they don't really write. And I really cared about stuff like I don't I don't know how to do things halfway. So if you ask me to research something, I'm gonna super research it. And if you ask me to reflect on something, I'm going to reflect about it till the cows come home. And so because of that I never had been capable of like just churning something out. I finally picked up that skill, a little bit on some things. But I remember in high school, I wrote this paper that this teacher absolutely loved and they will allow me to write a paper on any topic and I wrote it on Shakespeare, and she said, Do you know enough to write this paper and I said, I know enough to write it and not enough to get confused. And the funny thing is, by the time I got to college, I actually knew way more on Shakespeare and I knew enough to get confused. So yeah, so I think that's a struggle I've always had, and some organizational issues. I think the strengths that have come with it are creativity, like you said, and compassion. I have a really good memory from my childhood. And repeating first grade was really tough. It made me lose a lot of confidence in myself. And because of that, though, I have a huge amount of empathy for people, especially kids. I have a strong recollection of what it's like to be bullied. And I really value people's different opinions. I have since childhood since as far back as I can remember really love reading about people's learning differences, not just ABB, but those people on the autism spectrum, I was really into Helen Keller, I was into all that. Um, and I think respecting those people has not not only meant that I've had these gifts, but also I've been able to tap into other people's gifts, and see how they're shining in ways other people haven't. And I really like that. Betsy Furler 30:20 Yeah, that's awesome. I bet you're a wonderful teacher, for those kids in your class who don't think and work in the same way. That is we consider typical. Julie DAmbrosi 30:32 Yeah, it's really amazing to me how common a thread that is, among art teachers, when you ask our teachers, why their art teachers, a huge percentage of them will say that art was a safe haven for them, and that they wanted to be a part of a place that embrace kids for their differences instead of what made them the same. I'm paraphrasing a really common quotation. But yeah, I think that's really true. And I also Going back to your homework comment, I was really passionate about teaching a subject that didn't have homework now some art teachers do give homework but I'm very lucky to be at a school that doesn't require me to give homework and I just absolutely love the fact that kids view my classes can be instead of broccoli, you know, they forget some our teachers get mad that kids forget that artists academic and I try to talk to kids about how intellectual artists and how it can blow your brain and all those things. But at the end of the day, I love the fact that kids think that aren't the treat and not a chore. Betsy Furler 31:38 Yeah, that yeah, that is that is pretty cool. Julie DAmbrosi 31:45 Um, Betsy Furler 31:46 so you've you're in the you're teaching now and it sounds like you fell on you've again kind of found your your place and kind of your tribe. Did you ever did you have any accommodation ever had any accommodations either in college or grad school or in the workplace for your ADHD or dyslexia? I mean, your dysgraphia? Julie DAmbrosi 32:08 Um, yes, growing up, I was kind of a constant battle to keep those accommodations because there was that constant sense of like, you're smart, therefore you don't have this, therefore you don't need this. Um, but I had a lot of like, one of my biggest accommodations was being allowed to take tests on computers, because if I took them in handwriting, they would not have been able to read what I said. In fact, actually, I failed. I didn't actually fail but they said I failed the high school exit exam. At one point, it was a big deal. I wasn't going to be able to graduate and it's because they messed up and didn't see that my essay was typed and attached and not handwritten because I had accommodation to type it but whoever was grading it obviously missed that and just gave a zero for no entry. So we had to fight that. But that's, that's the biggest one. Sometimes I had combinations on homework. Often teachers were really, really locked in on that. And then I there was always this trend of teachers would sort of not want to provide a combination or they would provide a combinations but people locked in about things. So the beginning the year, come around to it at the end of the year, be very passionate about who I was and how I learned, and then try to tell the next teacher in the next teacher wouldn't really listen. That's, that's a bit unfair. I had some really amazing teachers and I understand the pressure features you're under. But yeah, I did have some accommodations for like extra time on tests or having tests beyond the computer, but the biggest thing I needed help with probably was homework. And there was like one time in my life when I had some sort of accommodation homework official one, I think, but normally that was really at the teacher Question and not much happens there. Right, right. Well, I Betsy Furler 34:06 bet I bet some of the teachers just forgot you had accommodations because you were so bright, and probably did great in class discussion. So they probably just totally forgot. And I think that happens a lot. Unfortunately, I think it ends up falling on the parents and the student to kind of continually remind and enforce the accommodations Julie DAmbrosi 34:27 very much so and it was an amazing advocate, luckily, and also I unfortunately, I hope this has gotten better. I think this has in some ways, but sometimes teachers would talk about, you know, the kid needs to be a self advocate, but really, I was a great self advocate. That was their way of shutting down someone that was littler that they couldn't, but this all sounds really negative. I really, most of my teachers were absolutely remarkable. I think that their hands were sort of tied by the system in some ways, more than it being them. I think Download that they had even as a kid I realized that. But yeah, my mom was a phenomenal advocate. And going back to the theater thing, I think one of the things that she was the best advocate for this only happened like once or twice, but I did have, like one or two teachers who said that I should stop doing plays because I didn't have enough time for homework when I was doing plays. And my mom basically said, Over my dead body, yeah, that that was what was giving me everything and giving me all my confidence. And also she pointed out interestingly, that I did better on my homework when I was in plays, because my problem was always overthinking. So typically, when I was in a show, my grades would go up, not down. Betsy Furler 35:45 That's interesting. And you probably I know, I know that. Some people do better under more pressure. So it's like they're, the more the more they're doing, the busier they are, the more structured they can get with their schedule. And then get things and then actually end up being much more productive. Julie DAmbrosi 36:05 Or that's a really common thing with ADD. I didn't I don't necessarily consider myself someone in that category. I haven't. But I think it is just true to the fact that I will get started on it. It's not like I procrastinate, don't get started on it. But knowing I have to get it done in a short time period, knowing what that time period is, I only have 20 minutes to do this essay, or this math homework or whatnot. really did help me structure things. Betsy Furler 36:34 Yeah, and then and then we're thinking I'm sure it's huge, you know, if you have less time, you know, you can overthink as much and and that just automatically gets you finished faster somewhere else to put Julie DAmbrosi 36:46 my thoughts. I did much better on things in graduate school. But I did have one professor who didn't like my papers in graduate school. And one time I just realized that I thought that She made me thought they were over complicated. It took me a long time to realize that, but I finally realized it. And so just out of desperation one time, I wrote a paper for her at midnight and took like, 10 minutes on it compared to the many, many hours I normally Oh, and she loved it. She thought it was, um, she was like the best paper. You know, this is great like that. Write all your papers like this. I don't know what you did differently. And it's terrible. But I did. I told my husband, I was like, Oh, I just need to write the paper with half my brain. That's what right. But I had another teacher who I have put in all the dreams and ways that I normally think and they, they love that. So we all have our different styles and different things that we like, and I think that's another thing I've taken away from a DD is um, I really value subjectivity and recognizing the different things have different perspectives. And I'm pretty good. Sometimes it's hard for me at first, but I'm good at looking for someone else's perspective and catering to that perspective not changing who I am, but right. I mean that in very Unknown Speaker 38:16 figuring out what they want. Mm hmm. Unknown Speaker 38:19 Again. Betsy Furler 38:21 Well, awesome. Is there anything else you want to add? Julie DAmbrosi 38:25 I'm sure. I guess one thing that I'm really passionate on I would want to mention is I know there are parents out there who don't want to say that their kid has a disability or a learning difference because they think it's going to hold their kid back. And I think it only holds your kid back if that's what you think it is. You know, I growing up I got bullied a lot for having a DD and I got bullied for taking medicine for a DD and I got sort of accidentally bullied by a doctor. Sometimes who didn't want to acknowledge a DD was real because they said, You're smart. Therefore, you know, you can't say you have a DD because you shouldn't be putting limits on yourself. But it's just a tool. It's just a tool to help you figure out where your strengths are and where your weaknesses are. It doesn't mean that you can't achieve whatever you want to achieve. It provides you information. It's like a car, you know, you want to be the manual, like, right, right. If you want to adjust things and turn in a rocket or something and you want to do that, maybe you can, but reading the manual is gonna help you it's a starting place. And I think that there's still unfortunately a lot of people who would be the most phenomenal advocates for people with disabilities, because they believe that people with disabilities can do so much. But they have it in their heads that they can only do that by denying the struggle that people are having. And I think acknowledge Just struggle. Um, and also, I always need to remind myself of this teacher, because I forget sometimes, but very rarely should you say to the phrase to a child, try harder. One of the best lessons my mom ever taught me was to try smarter, not harder. And I think we should really emphasize that to kids. We should not assume that they're not trying because I think the vast majority of kids are trying too little hearts out. I do too. Unknown Speaker 40:32 I do too. And those are two really great points. And I think I was talking to somebody yesterday about the idea of presuming competence and really presuming that people are trying and Betsy Furler 40:48 that kids are trying and that I believe everyone on the earth wants to do well and succeed. And sometimes they get beaten down by what society has has done to them, and they start giving up. But I think in their heart of hearts, they really I think everyone wants to be successful. And if we can, if we can look at people's strengths and value those and build on those, rather than worrying about the weaknesses so much, I think that life is better for everyone. Julie DAmbrosi 41:21 Yes. And when a kid tries to explain to you what they're struggling with, you know, don't dismiss them as Don't make excuses. It's an opportunity to learn what barriers are in their way. It's them telling you that they want help moving those barriers or the ability to move the barriers themselves and they want to discuss it and think it out. But often that gets shut down. I think we're getting better on that in that educational system. I really do. I do. But it's something to continue to work on. Betsy Furler 41:52 Absolutely. So I know my audience is gonna want to connect with you and follow you. So tell us how We can keep in touch with you and then also the information about your YouTube channel please Julie DAmbrosi 42:06 sure um I am well i'm i'm at Horace Mann elementary school I don't have any I don't have any Twitter or anything like that. Um, but you can certainly I would love it if you subscribed to me at creativity time with Julia major. And I really do try to create lessons that incorporate universal design for learning. So they're good for kids of all different interested interests and all different ways of thinking. And they're not just cookie cutter so that I think my add really comes into the kind of lessons that I do as well. Betsy Furler 42:45 Yes, they're wonderful. So I will put that in the show notes. And I just want to thank you so much for being on the podcast today and for sharing your experiences and your in your knowledge with our with my audience. Julie DAmbrosi 43:00 was absolutely honored to be interviewed. I'm so happy that you're doing this because I do. I guess my one last thought I would say is, I do remember reading books as a kid of people with learning differences that succeeded. And I just, I mean, I clutched onto that like a lifesaver. And so I really hope that there are kids and parents who are watching or listening to all of your podcasts and seeing what their kids can do. Betsy Furler 43:29 Yes, well, thank you again and listeners. Thank you so much for tuning in today to for all abilities, the podcast, please rate review, subscribe on whatever podcast platform you're listening on. And please share this with your friends and colleagues. And I will talk to you all next week. Thanks so much for being here. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
For All Abilities – The Podcast: Adult ADHD with Stacey Kovoloft In this episode, I interview Stacey Kovoloft. We discuss the challenge of her diagnosis of ADHD as an adult and how she has navigated school and work with the diagnosis. To connect with Stacey, please go to her community for parents, educators and other professionals at https://www.hopesdreamsjourney.com/home, follow her on LinkedIn (Stacey Kovoloft) and on Instagram at dyslexia_girl. Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcript from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome to for all abilities, the podcasts. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Have a listen to for all abilities, the podcast, and please subscribe on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to for all abilities, the podcast. This is your host Betsy Furler. And I'm so excited to be here with another special guest, Stacey Kovoloft. Stacey, thank you so much for agreeing to be on my podcast. Stacey Kovoloft 0:49 Thank you so much, Betsy for having me. Very excited. Betsy Furler 0:53 Yes. So why don't you introduce yourself to my audience so they know a little bit about you before we launch into my interview. Stacey Kovoloft 1:01 I'm I'm Stacey Koval off, and I have been an educational consultant, and advocate. And I'm also currently on admissions at an independent private school called RJ. I'm the mother of four. My children are 2522 12 and eight. Um, and I'm also the founder of an educational startup called hopes, dreams journey. And hosting journey is a community of educators and consultants, experts and parents working together to help kids succeed, despite their learning differences. We are an educational platform that we'll be bringing parents and educational professionals together. And we're going to be using something called gamification to help motivate professionals to add their content and resources and also reach out to as many providers parents as possible Betsy Furler 2:13 about is so awesome. So I will definitely link to that in the show notes and we'll talk a little bit more about it at the end of the interview as well. So how I usually start my interviews is always asking my guests what they were like as a child. So what were you like when you were a little girl? Stacey Kovoloft 2:32 And I was curious. I had more energy than I think any of my family members knew what to do with. Uh huh. Um, I was never able to sit still. So obviously I self diagnosed myself with ADHD. Um, I was a very anxious child I I was always afraid of failure. failure. I didn't accept failure very well. School was really difficult for me. I really believe that by the fifth grade my formal educational Unknown Speaker 3:18 career Unknown Speaker 3:19 was put to bed. Oh, wow, that's so young. Stacey Kovoloft 3:24 It was really. I, I had dysgraphia dyscalculia and was labeled by my teachers. I remember in second grade, not being able to sit still in the classroom and I would go use going to the bathroom is a way of being able to get up and move my body around. Uh huh. I peed myself in my second grade seat because the teacher stopped allowing me to go to the bathroom. Betsy Furler 3:52 Oh, cuz you're done up, gotten up so many times. Stacey Kovoloft 3:56 Not too many times. Yeah. And then I think it was fifth grade. I used to chew gum, it's a form of sensory integration. And my teacher made me stick a ball of gum on the tip of my nose. Oh, awful. It was really awful. Um, my family. My mom got quite ill when I was young, and I was separated from her by the age of 11 years old. So I had trauma with and I think that made my anxiety levels increase. And I was brought to California, and I went into the private. I went into the independent private educational system, I was at it. I was at a Jewish Day School, where instead of the educators being honest with my parents about my educational needs, I was pushed through Unknown Speaker 4:45 and Well, Stacey Kovoloft 4:47 yeah, so I had a father that believed in me, and told me that I could do anything on my mother's side of the family who were all very well educated. I'm really At a very young age told me I had no choice but to get married, I would never be able to stand on my own two feet and take care of myself. And I did just that I got married at 23 and had my first child by the time I was 24. But I made a commitment that I would not and my kids would have the opportunity to go to college, they would go to college and whatever resources that they would need, I would be there to help provide them. Um, so to back up a little bit, I ended up not finishing high school. I left high school in 11th grade. Um, I had it I was I was always self driven. And I was not a follower. And I ended up getting a job with Project headstart. Mm hmm. And so by the time I was 18, I was with headstart full time, and I was with headstart for five years and We became we ended up losing our funding, and we were a federally funded program and became a state funded program. At that time, I ended up going back to school and getting my early childhood units and worked up to local independent private schools in Los Angeles. And I must say it's 20 years ago, I found that school shop la Hmm. After teaching nursery school for 20 years. Betsy Furler 6:36 What is interesting to me that you while while school was so hard for you and didn't work well for you, then you ended up going into education, actually, at a really young age. Stacey Kovoloft 6:48 I wanted to prove, you know, I think my mission was, you know, for the longest time to prove to my family, that I was smart, because I was always I always felt dummy down. I always felt that broke in, I think till this unit I just turned 50 and I think till this day, I'm constantly trying to prove myself and weight it in almost unnatural ways. You know, in my, in my immediate family, my mother, my, my, my aunt, my uncle, and even my, my, the young, my younger sister, or any of my siblings for that matter. Um, but yeah, and you know, I've always been very very passionate because you know, I've never I I don't want though it it's not the case I've never wanted you know, anyone child to have to leave. We live what what my educational experience was? Betsy Furler 7:43 Yeah, that's it's i i think it's so wonderful when people take what could have been a will probably was a terrible experience, but you've taken it and made something good out of it. And also, you're so you've never been you've never Ever been officially diagnosed? Correct with ADHD or dyslexia or dysgraphia? So can you talk tell my audience a little bit about kind of how, how that's come about and what happened there. Stacey Kovoloft 8:14 So ADHD, and you know, I have really focused on things that I'm interested in, you know, education I could read educational read for hours, listen to lectures for hours, but things that are not like most people, but I really, I I have a harder time with things that are not of interest. I also have to move around. Um, you know, I move around a lot. I multitask. I can't you know, if I'm, if I'm reading I always have I believe it or not have the TV on I could be, you know, organizing something and reading at the same time, maybe works better with multiplayer. You know, multi facilitated activities. I'm just scrappier, you know, I have brilliant ideas, I can dictate wonderful emails and letters. I implemented technology on my computer. But when I try to type something out myself, it sounds like I'm drunk. My, my, my children till this day get really aggravated with my text messages. At work, we use something called slack. And I've been labeled by other colleagues of mine, which you know, is as far as I was concerned, it was slander. And when you're working in an educational environment, there's not tolerance for those who have disabilities. Mm hmm. So as incredible as the work that I've done, I'm still so misunderstood by a lot of my colleagues. Betsy Furler 10:09 Wow. Yeah, that's and I've heard that from other people too, who are in education and have their own differences or disabilities that they have felt very misunderstood. Stacey Kovoloft 10:22 100 misunderstood. I have, you know, other colleagues of mine that have had podcasts and, you know, unless unless they have a PhD or master's or doctorate, they don't, you know, they're like, Oh, my God, you might hinder our program, as well. Yeah. But meanwhile, you know, I've been successful. I have, you know, two very well adjusted young adults. I, uh huh. So we're very younger children. I, you know, financially self sufficient. But that was a homeowner at 24 years old. Betsy Furler 10:55 Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. And, and you've been a mom for a long time. time when you were talking about how old your kids were, that's what I thought I was like, Wow, she's been a mom for a really long time. So tell us a little bit about what you're doing now. So everybody can connect with you but also benefit from the resources that you that you're developing. Stacey Kovoloft 11:16 So what we're doing now is I am still an educational consultant, but we're focusing on hdj. We are reaching out to educational providers, educators of behavioral therapists and therapists, speech therapists, OT PT, pediatricians, reading specialist, dyslexia specialist, and we are trying to get them to sign up for our for our site. Betsy Furler 11:50 And what So give us a kind of a walkthrough of what that will look like. So will you have professionals members and ORS are how am I gonna work? Stacey Kovoloft 12:04 We are a destination for parents to learn more about their child and how to help them succeed. This all starts with education. Our network of professionals has the knowledge and experience to educate parents by adding articles, resources and videos. the more you'll The more you contribute to our site, the more visible you'll be in our hdj community. Unknown Speaker 12:25 That's a great idea. Unknown Speaker 12:27 Cuz it kind Unknown Speaker 12:28 of motivates people to put more information up, Stacey Kovoloft 12:33 right? We're going to be promoting all of our content on social media and advertising online, and AR will be the destination for parents who want to help Betsy Furler 12:44 their children succeed. That's awesome. It is it isn't location specific at all, or is it us specific or is it going to be information for kind of everybody? Stacey Kovoloft 12:56 Right now we're launching Los Angeles, Chicago, and believe it or not, My next our next will be in Houston, Florida, we hope, you know to eventually be all over the United States and then possibly International. We will also be connecting families with schools because I think with distance learning becoming so prevalent is educational, you know, daily resources being needed, we're going to we're going to be adding schools and such to our site. Betsy Furler 13:27 Awesome. Yeah, I was gonna I wanted to ask you, um, how has COVID-19 and the stay at home order affected both you from your workflow? And, you know, from a personal standpoint, as far as with your ADHD, and your other, your other differences, and how has it affected the thought process on how to go forward because I know when, when you and I talked to the other day, we talked about the fact that education is probably going to be changing, it's going to look a lot different And so anyway, I was interested in finding out what you thought about that Stacey Kovoloft 14:05 about how it's affected me personally. Well, I, I have two young kids at home that were assisting to be homeschool to young students at home right now that I'm working with, and how is it affecting me as far as my consulting business? I've been receiving a lot of phone calls. I think a lot of parents are scared. Globally, you know about what is going to be with their public educational programs, a lot of learners that public schools are not doing a great job with their online learning. Mm hmm. I have a lot of parents that moved into local great school districts that are realizing that their local public school is not working up either I've been receiving a lot of requests for information for private schools, but also a lot of families with fear of how they how are they going to be able to sustain the cost of private school? Betsy Furler 15:13 Right, right. It's kind of a catch 22. Also, I know for the schools, you know, how are they going to survive? How are the parents going to be able to pay for tuition, there were so many issues. So it's interesting that you It sounds like you've been really busy. Since this has all happened really Stacey Kovoloft 15:31 busy. Rotate the school that I'm at admissions at is is a totally different kind of a model. We really have focused and honed in on 21st century education. Instead of finals. There's symposium. There's roundtable discussions, all the information even today is very relevant to what's happening in the world. We're not teaching teaching to the textbook, which is generally speaking for most, most people Students who are bored in the classroom, students with ADHD are students that get frustrated easily or even students that are chewy. Our RTI has been ideal. I think that whole independent private school model is probably just in general going to have to change because of affordability. So I've been busy speaking to families, I've been busy and super excited working on this startup. Next Wednesday, next, sorry, the the evening of the third educational professional series and I'm starting out with two educational attorneys that will be speaking about what families need to know about accessing resources during this time. Uh huh. The second week, I have a neuro psychologist that's going to be speaking in the third week. I have a global educational college consultant that is going to be doing an event. And then I have a friend who's involved in she has a podcast called overthrowing education. And she is going to be speaking about what is what needs to be acquired to receive 21st century education. Unknown Speaker 17:30 Oh, that's fantastic. Stacey Kovoloft 17:32 Yeah. So I'm putting a lot of different events together but also really honing in and kind of making a shift for myself to focus on our educational startup and bringing providers to our to our space. Betsy Furler 17:45 Yeah, that's that sounds amazing. It sounds like it's the perfect time for my listeners to go onto your platform and get get signed up and start utilizing those resources. Well, this has been amazing. Stacey, thank you so much for joining me today. Stacey Kovoloft 18:04 Everybody to sign up for host dreams journey.com it's hope dreams journey.com. Betsy Furler 18:11 Awesome. And I will put that in the show notes. And can I also find you on LinkedIn? What's the other like? Is there another social media platform? Stacey Kovoloft 18:20 Yes. Behind dyslexia girl on Instagram. Okay. Unknown Speaker 18:25 And what's your girl on Instagram? Stacey Kovoloft 18:28 Yes. So we have we have, we've just started a Instagram for hdj. And then you can also find me on LinkedIn. Betsy Furler 18:39 Perfect. And I will put links to all of that in my show notes. Because I'm sure there are many people that are listening that will really benefit from this. And so it was great talking to you today. Thank you so much. And to my listeners. Thank you for tuning in, please rate review, subscribe to the podcast. Wherever you are listening to it on whatever podcast platform you're listening to, and I will talk to you all soon. Stacey Kovoloft 19:08 Thanks so much. Thank you. Betsy Furler 19:11 Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host, and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to us on. If you'd like to know more about what we do in our software that helps employer support their employees with ADHD dyslexia, learning differences in autism, please go to www dot for all abilities calm. You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler f isn't Frank, you are le AR Have a great day and we will see you soon. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
For All Abilities – The Podcast - Adult ADHD and Then Diagnosed with Autism with Sarah Worthy In this episode, I interview Sarah Worthy. We discuss her life as a child with ADHD and then her diagnosis of autism in adulthood. She discusses how has navigated life and work with the diagnoses and her love of running and video games. To connect with Sarah, please follow her on LinkedIn (Sarah Worthy). Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our consulting services and software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcript from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:04 Hi, everybody, welcome back to for all abilities the podcast. This podcast is meant to inform the world of the amazing things people with neuro diverse brains are doing for our world. This is Betsy Furler. I'm your host, and I'm so excited to have my friend Sarah worthy with me today. Sarah Worthy 0:24 Hi, Sarah. How are you? I'm great, Betsy. Thanks for having me here today. Betsy Furler 0:28 Yes. So Sarah is also a female entrepreneur. She's founded a SaaS software company, and she's going to tell you all about that. But first, Sara, tell us a little bit about yourself. Give us a little intro. Sarah Worthy 0:45 It's always tough to do an intro for me. I have been had a really exciting career over the past 15 plus years. Most of its been working inside growth stage technology startups across telecommunications hardware software. You know, the internet is has come out. So I've really gotten a chance to see the inner workings of everything that makes you know today's world possible. You know, I guess that's the nutshell of what I am. I'm also a mom, and a runner, avid, and an avid ADHD spectrum person. Betsy Furler 1:21 So, tell us a little bit about how you What were you like as a little girl, Sarah Worthy 1:26 I was everything you would typically expect from somebody who is later diagnosed with ADHD. But nobody ever caught it back then. But I was I was also very smart and incredibly smart. I was in gifted and talented programs. From the time I was in fourth grade. And I guess even third grade I was in a small group in that classroom of two other kids. They did all the accelerated math and things like that. You know, I was also really hyper getting outside running around. I was out catching tadpoles in springs. You know, getting dirty and making mud pies was one of the funniest stories I like to tell from my childhood that kind of segues into how I became an entrepreneur. I was always trying to sell things on street corners, not just the lemonade stand like I did the lemonade stand once I was like, oh, but all the other kids are doing that. So I had been I had a toy sale a cop stopped by and said I couldn't sell toys on my curb without a permit so i'd shipped really nice about it. And so then I had an earthworm fish he said, You know cuz I watch cartoons. I don't know. I was like eight maybe at this time. And I thought well, there's there's people go fishing so and we have a bunch of earthworms in our yard. So I dug up a bunch of earthworms and was trying to sell them not one of them sold by the way. I did put them all back because I was grew up in San Antonio, Texas, and there's no place to go fishing and you don't use earthworms for bait I found out that's just in cartoons. But I was always doing little things like that, that I think were kind of interesting. I definitely had a non traditional childhood and now way. I also grew up with a computer, which you know, for most kids is something today, they're starting to have the, you know, you're not that much different from me. You know, growing up, the internet didn't exist, but I had computers, computer games, dial up modem, that kind of thing. So I was always out there getting into things, really curious about things and exploring them. And I offer all my memories of my childhood are kind of mixed because I also had a lot of trauma, that result that was there from my and not being diagnosed as a kid and I was called a tomboy. I was called a difficult child. As I became a teenager, the meltdown started, and I didn't get a lot of support and that end, but I had my running. I had I was really great at sports. I was really great at school, and I took solace in that and just just plugged away. And then I went off to college at 16 at a early, gifted, talented program up at the Texas Academy, math and science and moved out of the house and from there I Guess I just was an adult and college started. And so there I don't know, is that a good initial story of my childhood I get into? Betsy Furler 4:07 Yeah. So when did you start running? So you so you know what, I'll just keep the listeners in that. And before we started recording, Sarah and I were talking about running because I've been a person who has literally never run and my wife and I decided that I need to start running now. Because I'm walking a lot during this COVID-19 stay at home and I realized as life becomes more normal, I'm probably not going to have enough time so I need to start running. And I really started walking so much because I was getting so restless being in the house and I do not have diagnoseable ADHD but I am a very active person as far as I love to get out and talk to people do things. I'm always multitasking and doing stuff. So anyway, so how old were you when you started running? Sarah Worthy 4:56 So well as my mom would tell. It is Running before I was walking Betsy Furler 5:03 you're one of those you just went straight to the running. Sarah Worthy 5:05 Yeah. And I was doing that by like nine months of age and and I have some pretty early childhood memories. One of them I was maybe four, and they hit so this is what I was like they had to install these special locks on all the doors to the house that were really up high so that I couldn't leave the house I learned very quickly how to get a broomstick and pop them off. And so again, I was like four and and because I wasn't in preschool in preschool yet and so it's right before then, but I decided to take my dog for a walk to the grocery store one day and you know I grew up in San Antonio nice little area. It was maybe a mile from there wasn't a mile mile and a half. It wasn't that far. But But I walked with a dog I went into the store let the dog tied up outside. I got some gum and a binder I got a kite one of this disposable plastic kites and stuff. And I just walked out of the store I put all five pieces of this chewing gum in my mouth at once. Like I remember this clear as day and got the dog and I was walking away and a police officer in the parking lot stopped me. Because here's this little kid. I just did all this effort. I had no concept of any of that none of this was intentional. It was just Betsy Furler 6:20 go to the store and you get stuff and then you leave. Sarah Worthy 6:22 Yeah, and luckily I was really cute as a little girl so I could get away with murder practically I never have murdered anybody. But I could have probably gotten away with it how to try. But But he so he pulled me in the car. And it was so funny. Looking back on it now because I was really like was like, I was a little scared and intimidated, but not like super bright. I still didn't think I'd done anything wrong. I had no concept of that. But he said he's like asking me questions. But he said I'm going to give you a lie detector test and I'm going to know if you're lying and I guess he's used to kids like this or something. But looking back, I realized a few years later, a little older. All he was doing was doing this switchboard thing because he had coffee Cars if you've never seen me inside of them even back then they were all gadget ended up as he's just flipping a switch to this light that would turn red or turned off depending on what he thought I was doing. So he obviously does not lie. That's funny. Yeah, of course, I told him all the truth because I, what did I know better? And so he taught took me in my dog band at home and my parents at this point, were frantic. My grandmother and grandfather were raising me and my grandmother had gone to water the Golan or he was on the phone with I don't know what it happened when I slipped out. But these these things happen all the time for me. But besides always leaving the house running around, the energy had to be going somewhere. And I was very lucky. I lived in a neighborhood where you could go out and do these things. Our cross country team ran the neighborhoods after schools together for training. So I'd remember my childhood mostly being outside running around the neighborhoods and like you and I were talking about, I mean, sometimes I walk it's no big deal. Right? Right. I didn't learn to ride a bike until I was 12. And so, which was a little odd in my neighborhood, all my friends, kids had bicycles. And I actually never had one until one of my friends got a new bike for Christmas. And she sold me her old one for, like, $10. And then she taught she taught me how to ride my bike. And so Wow, so I've ridden a bike every now and then, but I never really became that comfortable with it. So you know, there's always trade offs, I guess, if you spend all your life running. Betsy Furler 8:26 Yeah, yeah. So So you went off to college at a really early age. And what were you like in college? Were you a more academic time of college kid more social kind of college kids? Like what? What was the college experience like for you? Sarah Worthy 8:42 Oh, so it was a little bit. So when I was with Tam's, it was a little different at first. So the first two years the Texas Academy math and science is a program that takes in high school juniors through their junior and senior year and you get college AP credit, while simultaneously getting high school credit for the same class. So like I would take biology, hp, with, you know, other college students, but I would get high school credit as well. And during that time you lived in the dorms but every once a month you had to go home to your parents and they had curfews and all of that. So I think it would have been probably a little bit more like boarding school might have been I never went to school, but a little bit like that. And it's really funny because I kept in touch and I've seen old yearbook photos. I was never really you know, I look back I've always felt I I consider myself an extrovert and I really like people. But I really, especially as a teenager was not comfortable with myself. I was dealing with an eating disorder at that time. And I had a boyfriend and I had a few friends but it was a small group of people where I felt accepted no matter what I did. And I was very lucky to have that group of people there because there were a lot of moments during my teenage years when I was suicidal. I never, I never attempted it. But I got really close a couple of times and And so, you know it again it goes. I think a lot of it comes back when I look back. I feel very lucky to have come through that, obviously. But it was certain people incidents like getting into tamps really helped when I was back in a regular school, I was bullied all the time by the kids at school. The teachers all adored me. So it was that I got the teacher's pet. But I didn't understand, especially the teacher, I had no clue about all of these things that apparently everybody else knows. And everybody just thought there was that I wasn't trying or that I was intentionally rebellious or something like that. And not I was like, I just never I felt like I went through that period in a fog. When I got off to regular college after I was an additional department was living on my own. I was actually one of those people. I went to my classes, but then I also had a full time job to pay for things. And so school was almost like my part time activity. You know, Betsy Furler 10:57 like, Yeah, I was Sarah Worthy 10:58 I was doing 15 days. Our course loads, but I was scheduling my classes, you know, as much as I could just, you know, two days or three days a week. So I wasn't on campus except for those times. And in the rest of time I was at work. And so at that point, I it, it was more, I think, if you were someone going back to school in your 30s or 40s, you probably have found that college experience, I wasn't drinking, I wasn't part of a fraternity. You know, like, I was going to a lot of therapy at that point to get my eating disorder issues resolved. I got married. So all of those kinds of things that are kind of a little bit different. And I don't regret it at all. I look at a lot of the damage that some of my friends have done in college to their bodies, and I'm like I lucked out. Betsy Furler 11:44 Yeah, when I was in college, I was hanging out with my three or 400 closest friends and my my best friend from college just found her old calendar from college the other day and it's like she was like Betsy, we went to a lot of parties because so On this calendar, she wrote down like, you know, this party on this day and, you know this party on Monday. Well, now we had our sorority meeting on Monday. So, Tuesday, this party Wednesday, that party Thursday, this party, Friday, that party Saturday, another party Sunday study for whatever tests that and I went to a real academic, academically focused college and obviously, I did attend classes too. But, um, yeah, we, we spent a lot of time like I say, with our closest three to 400 friends, and it's so it's so interesting to me when I hear about other people's college experiences. And, you know, it's another way where people are so different and can kind of still, like, get to the same end point through a really, really different experience. Yeah, well, Sarah Worthy 12:52 it's funny you say that, I mean, the first, the first year and a half or so after Tam's. I was pre med and just work in school was everything I was focused on, I don't think I went to a single party of any kind during that time. And that was also around the time my grandfather passed away. So it was a really hard time. And I really, I don't think I have any friends from that time in school. And then when I changed my major to philosophy, and in fact, part of like, when I took an intro to philosophy class, which was required for my degree, I just fell in love. And I just I was, like I said, I'm changing my major, I got a business major as well, because I knew with a philosophy degree, I'd never get a job. I was like, I will get a job with this. And so I've got to be practical as well. So I got the business degree as well. But the philosophy classes that was probably one of the best parts of my college years was being in those classes, and debating with other people. And philosophical debate is not like a political debate, and a lot of people don't know right, and I wish they did. I really wish they did. Because a lot of times they think that when I'm, I'm talking about an issue and it becomes You know what, I think As a bloodless philosophical debate, they start to feel like oh, it's conflict or something. But in those classes again, I felt like I was with a group of people that they enjoyed talking about really deep subjects. They enjoyed that back and forth. We were there to learn if you made them if you weren't correct, if the other person had a better argument or made a good point, it was actually very validating to me to be in that environment, because it helped me be challenged and to grow my business classes. Meanwhile, like my economics classes, one of my professors put all of this old tests in the library. So I just went and looked at it. I never I went to none of my classes that semester, just for tests. And I got, like, 100 kids in the class, but I ended up he because he had an attendance policy. I was like, I'll take a B because my time right, you're not ever elsewhere. Right? Because it was it wasn't challenging to me, and I really needed to be in so like with Tam's with philosophy. Like I have always had to be in environments like that where they push me to be better all the time, or I just get bored and I give up and I just, I find something else to do. I played a lot of video games in college, I still do. And a lot of people think of that as a frivolous thing. For me, I've really been able to utilize a lot of my experiences, from video games to make better user experiences in my software, which is something I think we sorely need today in business. It's something that's fun to use, not just, you know, a spreadsheet. It's not a waste of my time, I guess. I don't know. Betsy Furler 15:28 So back to the philosophy classes and all of that, and then I want to talk about gaming. And so my small private liberal arts college, all of our classes were pretty much like that. So we would have I mean, I had classes with six people. And, and we would, we would discuss all sorts of issues and very controversial issues at times and I took a lot of religion classes and, and I would say, Well, you know, like to some people in the class very well. rageous statements about religion because I, I believe God loves us all. And so and you know, there be like a kid who grew up Southern Baptist too has a different opinion on that and, and but it was so amazing to be able to sit in those classes and for me to listen to their opinion and then to listen to my opinion, and, and not have a feeling at all if I've got to change you, um, but just kind of learning from each other and taking in all of those different worldviews on all sorts of different topics. And I think it's something that, you know, you and I and other people who had that experience in college or earlier in life can now really take to this climate that we're in now and be able to take in information, synthesize that ourselves and make up our own opinion, and you know, come up with our own opinion on what's happening, but also be able to understand that just because somebody doesn't agree with us It's okay. It's, you know, oh yeah, that that happens in the world. Sarah Worthy 17:04 And you actually went to the same college my mom and my stepdad went to because you went to Stephen F. Austin, right? Betsy Furler 17:11 No, I went to Austin college and Sherman. Sarah Worthy 17:13 Yeah, that's one. Sorry. I used to think I didn't go there. My parents did. But But yeah, no, I didn't know that when Way up north of in the North Texas, right. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's where they went to. I visited their campus once because my mom was taking me up to Tam's, which is in Denton, Texas. And she was like, I want to go visit so we drove up there as part of it. And that was my first trip to Oklahoma. We cross the border at some river lake or something. Yeah, yeah. So I I'm sure that that's partly where I get some of this because I was raised at home. And there was a lot of fighting between my mom and stepdad but my grandparents, not at all. But my mom was very open minded, very liberal, very much willing to sit down and have that kind of discussion with you on something thing is she always called herself a Christian Buddhist kind of, you know, so yeah, I just I just want to throw that in. I think that that's one of the reasons why you and I get each other. So it is exactly what we need today. You're You're very much correct there. I think too much of today's political environment is being right. And in your opinion, rather than understanding reality, and this is why I love philosophy, philosophy is something that allows you to see that there are, there's one reality that we all share and connect to it. And we perceive it differently from one another. And it is in learning about the bigger picture and my my favorite parable in the world is the story of the blind men and the elephant. I don't know if you're familiar with that. You can do blind men and the elephant and there's like a Wikipedia page and all that. But it's this ancient parable and there's slight variations of it. But effectively this elephant is brought to this village in like rural India a long, long time ago. These three wise men, elders who are blind, are brought to see this elephant and experienced the elephant for the first time ever. And one of them's at the trunk. And it's like, oh, it's long and skinny with some moves around. It must be like a snake. And so you hear like, how he's taking the story away. I'm really abbreviating this because we have 30 minutes. One of them's on the leg of the elephant. And he's like, oh, an elephant must be like, a giant tree trunk. And so an elephant must be a tree or something. And then another one is a year and feels how wispy and thinks of it like a fan or something. And, And that, to me, is what we really we need people to be understanding. We're all blind men. And we're trying to discuss one reality that none of us can can see. And that's something that throughout my life has really helped carry my mentality. And it's so important, not just politically but just in my life as an innovator, as somebody who's supposed to go in and meet her in technology. You're not a computer programmer per se. And a lot of my job has been helping get designers and business people and customers and executives and programmers and everything all in a room to agree on something. And I don't think you can do that. If you go in with the idea that you're you're the only way that That's right. Betsy Furler 20:16 Yeah. And it kind of leads back to the topic of neuro diversity of all of our brains really are different. You know, some of us have brains that fit a little more into the box of norm, but nobody's quote unquote, normal, and by the definition of the norm, and so we all have brains that work differently, and it's so vital to understand that and to honor the different ways people think I mean, I have through this COVID-19 thing, I've had people unfriend me on Facebook, because they don't agree. And I'm not even posting anything political really, I mean, super moderate, but Sarah Worthy 20:55 you post stuff. Betsy Furler 20:58 Right? And it's like Okay, like that. That's not about me, them unfriending me isn't about me. It's about how they view the world and that's okay. It's like, that is absolutely fine with me. We all have to see the world in our own way, but I would love it if we could all you know, try to understand the other person's point of view as well, which I think I do think that's what Austin college taught me. And it sounds like then Austin college taught her mom that and then she raised you in that way, which makes me feel good about my parenting as well. Sarah Worthy 21:35 So it's so important and we need we need more of that we need less black and white in the world because if you look around the world is never been in black and white. Although just I was thinking about this. In the middle of the night I woke up and I was like, I have this thing tomorrow before I fall back asleep. And but and I've seen but black and white. I was like, oh, but except at night. Isn't that weird? And I'm looking around my room in the dark. There's a little light from outside and everything is like great night. Have you ever noticed that? Betsy Furler 22:01 Oh, yeah. And it's really not not Stark black and white even at night. We have Shades of Grey. Sarah Worthy 22:08 Yeah, but but the thing is everything is still colored. But at night we don't have enough light to see it. And that's what I was thinking. I was like that that a lot of times and that's really where I think when we talk about neuro diversity, there's there's this thing of like, well, just us you can't see it. Like maybe for you The world is Shades of Grey all the time, in your daily life. Like maybe you don't have all these other things like you know, you're not transgender, for example, you just don't know what that's like. And like, you know, and so that's a that's a dark place that doesn't have light on it in your perception of reality. But somebody else has a light shining brightly on that spot and understands it and can see it in full color. Again, this is just where it goes back to the elephant parable. I just think that that's one of the most amazing things about my brain. And it's why I think it's it's really changed my perception have so I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I was 20. On. Betsy Furler 23:01 Oh yeah, let's talk about your diagnosis. And then don't forget to talk about gaming and how you kind of use that. And to cope with the world. So I've talked about, tell us a little bit about your diagnosis. I'm putting the elephant and the blind man story in the show notes. Sarah Worthy 23:16 Yeah, you'll, you'll love that parable. It's awesome. It's so applicable. And then you can make segues into let's talk about the elephant in the room. It's so funny anyway. So So yeah, I'm, you know, it's funny. I don't know how I didn't struggle as much with my ADHD in college. But I did. I mean, I changed my major three times. It took me five and a half years to get through college. Thank goodness, I started young. And I took a semester off at one point because I was also dealing with an eating disorder at the time, and I ended up hospitalized for a little while and just totally like regular hospital for a week from dehydration and stuff. But then, wow. But then I needed to take some time off and I think I cut a semester down to like the minimum number of hours. So I'll let you take it. Because I was on financial aid and stuff, and I didn't want to lose it. But But I so it was a struggle to deal with it. But I want to hear other people. It's just the worst. But then I was 29 and pregnant with my son. And it was I had a friend at the time that I knew through work, who also had died. She been formally diagnosed. And this was the first woman I think I've ever met, that I probably had met others, but she this is what he knew and was diagnosed and everything and she was diagnosed ADHD with so much in common. And she just suggested one day she's like, have you thought about this? And so I went home and took some because we had quizzes. So I took a quiz online and it was like, Yeah, you're ADHD you should see a doctor. So I took an and I took it, I went to see a doctor, I got a formal diagnosis at 29. And they said it's actually really common for women who are pregnant to get that diagnosis because something about all the pregnancy hormones and chemicals just makes it where we can no longer cope. It All of the abilities are now gone. And so that's when we can't mask anymore. We can't hide it anymore. And that diagnosis was really crucial. I've been guiding said, I mean, I've been misdiagnosed with so many things starting at 16 I was diagnosed with depression. And I was put on like, back to back at least six different antidepressant medications. None of them worked. Some of them made me sleep a lot. It was just really tear it what made me have these hallucinating dreams when I was falling asleep. Betsy Furler 25:29 Oh, my goodness. Yeah, it was terrible. Sarah Worthy 25:32 I mean, they were kind of cool. I've never done acid, but I feel like that that drug was basically like, so So I mean, they weren't traumatized or anything, but they were not helpful. And then it's an after that, you know, I was diagnosed with social anxiety and in a number of other things. The ADHD diagnosis Finally, I think got me on that path. And suddenly I don't talk about too much What about but I'm trying to because it's really important I do this. But then last question. I was formally diagnosed with autism, or one a few months ago. Uh huh. Or a few years ago, COVID time, but Betsy Furler 26:09 yeah, really. But Sarah Worthy 26:11 But and I've actually suspected for because of going through this entrepreneur journey, it's real clear that there's something that I don't perceive this happening around other people. And it's never been more clear than during this time as a founder when you're trying to build a team and fundraise and get early customers. There's if you find out every weakness that you have every bad habit, it's all Yeah, you're going through this so true, right? It's all highlighted. And and he's like, I can read. You know, I have Dale Carnegie's book on my nightstand, How to Win Friends and Influence People. The thing is so worn, I've had that thing for 10 years. Most of it still doesn't make sense to me. And everyone loves to read and I'm like, I don't think I understand. And so I and then I saw a movie with Claire Danes about Temple Grandin. Research and then I started reading about actual Temple Grandin and Temple Grandin has this white paper or whatever you want to call it out there about Visual Thinking. And I started reading I was like, that's my brain right there because I live inside my my head. And I, I hate to say this, but I feel bad for the people who can't you know, there's trade offs, but I don't know how I would live without my imagination. I can I can close my eyes and I can create a universe in my mind, I can manipulate models, I can follow all of these different details and in very clear color and sound. And that's how I function and of course social stuff with between people. I'm still trying to figure out that kind of thing. I look for people like you to be my friends because you guys tolerate my missteps and Betsy Furler 27:52 we have fascinating conversations about like, how you perceive the world and how I perceive the world and what I contact Just like for you and what eye contact is like for me like it's really good so it's really fascinating. Sarah Worthy 28:07 It will To me it is because all How can you get through three plus decades of your life? Not knowing this? So yeah dancin imagine like, I thought I was just like everybody else and I thought and perceived and sense everything like normal people. But it turns out I don't you know, I don't even know what that means. So it's I'm still in a very overwhelmed like state like even though it's been something where I felt pretty confident in the past couple of years. even getting the formal diagnosis, it wasn't so much a shock to me, it was more of like, Well, how do I tell people because they're not gonna write. And it's been reassuring. I live in data data, my best friend. And I say that because when you are in a position where you're so different from everyone else around you, you need that that internet and that data to see Oh, I'm not The only person there's not something wrong with me I'm just different and I grew up left handed so that might also help because already I was in that small minority oftentimes as the only left handed person in class I got the one beat I got all through grade school was in handwriting and I still to this day protest that grade because not one was left handed. So not one of them knows how to do a left handed Betsy Furler 29:23 kid. And you know, that was when I my dad is left handed too so I did have some understanding until the lefties but he was old enough that he was forced to write with his right hand and early on a school and then his mother was like, absolutely not. He's writing with his left hand you know, and but then when I have Sam and he was it was apparent from like 18 months old that he was a lefty, and right away, and then you start realizing like everything is like we need left hand as little kids scissors because even though they say they're for both left and right, they are 12 paper and you Get final Sarah Worthy 30:01 scissors because they stopped like five of them and there's more than five looking people in the city. Betsy Furler 30:07 Right and then I'm writing his name all over them because they'll steal them right? Yeah. Do not take the left handed scissors and just all sorts of lefty you know baseball golf tennis like you know then you're using like the coach's left is right handed and oh my goodness. Yeah. So yeah, that is it's so different. Being a lefty is so much different than I perceived as a righty. Until I was parenting one. Yeah, Sarah Worthy 30:34 and that's exactly I feel like right now, the best analogy when we talk about neurodiversity, is that you have right handed people and that's like 80% of the population. But then you saw that 20% of people that are neuro diverse are left handed or that are ambidextrous and in some way and and I think the world of righties doesn't realize it until they have to because and that's like any minority majority relationship. Till the majority is faced with the problem, like personally, they just don't. They just don't have any idea about what the struggle is. But meanwhile the people are in that minority are like struggling every single day. I mean, can openers for God's sakes like, come on. And she has left handed person, you're more likely to die by using a power tool, then as a right handed person. Oh, wow. Yeah, they're curious because they're not designed for us. But it being left handed i think is one of the things that has helped and kind of for me, I think having about 10 years between ADHD and the autism diagnosis, like like having that gap there to adjust, I think helped a little bit. But honestly, I really wish is like, I look at kids today who are getting especially the girls when a girl like Greta Thornburg, I am in all inspired by her story, because look at what she's done, but she had support and she struggled. I mean, they don't go into too many of the details, but you hear the interviews with the parents talking about Yeah, her childhood isn't that easy? Right, but I just think Wow, amazing. If I've done all of this, and I'm able to do so much right now, just imagine if I'd had that support at a young age instead of the struggles, as battles as being disruptive and all that. Betsy Furler 32:11 And in the support, I think also the support Sarah Worthy 32:14 of Betsy Furler 32:16 parents who have that, who know their child has that diagnosis, but know that they can still do anything that they want to in their life, but they might take a different path and having to understand and, and support their child in that. I'm sorry, but if Trump can be our president, an autistic kid is certainly capable of doing anything. Sarah Worthy 32:38 I mean, look at the world we live in today. Like there's so many people out there and one of the Richard Branson's dyslexic, and he's somebody else I'd greatly admire in the entrepreneur community of what he's done. And it's, you know, it's one of those things where I just look at what what people have done already. There's there's always other knowing that but there's this this cognitive dissonance that people have about Go. Einstein was probably autistic and blah all these you know, Newton or what have all these other people who are geniuses are supposedly like that. But then they're these parents are like, but my kid, he doesn't talk until you seven. He's never gonna make it. I mean, like that's like the most weird thing. Right? Right? I got C's and D's and F's, right until right? Betsy Furler 33:21 I just went, you don't do well with academic school, and really has no impact. Like, it really doesn't matter. And I have said this on the podcast in the past. So this is a bit of a repeat for my listeners. But I've especially as an entrepreneur, I have had to undo things that I learned that made me a really good student. Yeah. Because a lot of what made me a really good student and just a really easy child to raise. And, you know, I don't mean good students, and with the academic part as much as just, you know, following the rules and responsible and doing what's expected. have me a lot of that. I've had to change my narrative about that in order to be a good entrepreneur. Because once you become an entrepreneur, and like you were saying, first of all, you find out all your faults, because we're none of us are good at everything and, and it suddenly becomes very glaring that, you know, you have, you don't do well in this one area. And but you also have to be able to really stand up for yourself in a way that you've never had to before. I've never had to before and, and really go against the grain of what a lot of people are expecting of you. Sarah Worthy 34:36 Yeah. And to your point, I think that's exactly why we see I don't I don't think people who are on the spectrum or who are dyslexic or any of the nerd, I don't think we're better entrepreneurs. Compared to other people, I think there's more of us who become entrepreneurs because like you said, We grew up having to go against the grain by just existing like, right There, there was no fitting into the level that that someone who isn't on the spectrum could do. And so it just comes more naturally. I don't want to say now it comes. We're more used to having to do that to get home. So we just do it. And I know a lot of times I've just been very bold and people call me aggressive. I hate that, by the way, because when I'm aggressive, you'll know it, I'll become a weapon and teeth will be there. I mean, like, I say, like, there's a big difference between aggressive and being bold and assertive. Huge difference. So is it but but it hurts when I get called those things, because it's coming from a place where I think, you know, it's those social things. I don't know what to do with them. And it's great. And the best thing about my diagnosis has been knowing that knowing that I don't know that and I have to step more carefully. Yeah, sometimes you walk into, you know, the bull in the china shop thing that's, that would describe you as a child. Perfectly Yeah, Betsy Furler 36:00 yeah. Well let's you know, so we're getting close on time. Yeah, I'm being going too long but I want you to talk really briefly about video games because so many kids who are on the spectrum love video games and I think they get so much out of it and it's such a positive thing but it's frequently thought of is so negative. So I would love for you to just touch briefly on video games and then tell my audience how they can find you if they want to connect with you. Sarah Worthy 36:29 Yeah, yeah, so I mean my entire life I've played video games starting to the ones where you're just typing to a terminal go north go west anyone listening who's played this understands these type of games, the rest you know, you can look this up it's, they're long gone. But you know, they're classics. But Nintendo's have been my favorite The Legend of Zelda. I tell this story to everybody. So I'm sure you've heard it too. But like playing the game Zelda growing up and even though I am playing Breath of the Wild right now and I just cannot emit like video games with So far, but the game is Zelda, you know, it's so it's so much easier because in the real world, if you're someone on the spectrum, there's all of these invisible things that you don't know, between people. But in video games, that component has been removed, you know, and so you could go and you you get you talk to a villager and they say, Well, I can't help you save the princess. But I can give you some rubies to help you by a sword. If you find my cow that got lost, you go find the cow and then you talk to another villager and they do something else, you get a sword. And it's this step by step process. And that's exactly what entrepreneurship is like, you have no idea you're suddenly waking up in this world of I'm an entrepreneur on with with nothing and you have to like go talk to people to find out. So I think that it helps when when you are confused about what to do it at least tells you here's just do these things and trust the process, kind of like go talk to people even if you don't know what to say or do. So I think that that helps. But another component of video games I think a lot of people miss is that you know, when you're autistic, you need structure to a level that other people don't because the world is amazingly bright and loud. And it's like being at a rave 24 seven. And that's not exactly an app that's more I'm trying to think of like maybe being in a horse race stadium wall array this going on and there's a football game on or something Oh, just a dog. It just, there's so much and so having that structure, like the quest log, going in order, it really helps you figure out how to move through things. It gives me a sense of count like some days like I'm like, Well, if you know I do all of this maddening things, but then I spend two hours playing this game and I could relax because I I now no longer have to sort out all of these unknowns that I'm going to get wrong. Because being on the spectrum is about making you know way more mistakes every day. Then you ever understood you even made because nobody wants to tell you Everyone wants to Be nice, stop being nice to people on the spectrum Be kind, do not be nice. We hate it. I'm in a group right now write about this all the time. Like, why do they ask us how things are going if they don't really want Betsy Furler 39:11 to know the answer? Sarah Worthy 39:14 Right? Like don't ask us those questions. And so video games provide that kind of thing. But what I love about them in terms of work, since we're wrapping up to is is the way I've seen them progress and you can go in and play these games and explore world. It provides an experience where it's catering to you and what you what you need to do to get to the next step. And we don't do that in today's world, we leave everything completely ambiguous. And I think there are a ton of people who are, you know, quote, neurotypical who could really benefit from a life not not this like completely structured but when you go to work every day, expectations are very unclear and videos. You hear this all the time when we talk about employee engagement managers don't really know what they want. They just want Money and success and so forth. But they don't really know how to lay this out. And when you when you play a lot of games, you start to understand then how to build those mechanics and build game that I haven't made any famous games or anything but of course in my computer classes, I've developed small games and I've thought about how I would do it differently. And it really gives you a perspective on where the world could be much better for everyone if we brought more of those elements in and people are thinking about video games as some sort of negative but you know, they used to when books first came out way long before any of us were alive. They thought books were dangerous, okay, and they frivolous and all of that when television or radio came out people think that and the same person who will spend all day on Sunday just watching football is gonna then in most people watch football also play video games. I'm sure this isn't exactly true, but but you know that the parents are thinking this is going to ruin my kid but it's not that I think some of the gains Like Grand Theft Auto that kind of thing. I think you know, certainly those are for adults. I just and honestly I'm of the mindset that you're you what you feed into your brain just like your body like if you eat junk if you watch junk if you play garbage violent games, then that's that's what's gonna come out of you right? Right and that's that's what you become so it's for me it's more of just I like this was all this one my favorite more I like that. I've always been a Nintendo fan. I'm not plugging Nintendo but I am in right now. I just add to this animal crossing, I just started playing that this last week with my son, and they have something I think everyone on the spectrum should will enjoy this especially the kids because they have these emotion things that you can do with your village neighbors. And so you can express a greeting or delight or laughter or so forth. And so it's it's a I feel like I'm like this game is teaching social skills between people without even like making it an obvious thing. I do get to The villagers all had personalities. And he talked to them too much. They get annoyed things like that. So it's almost like, like, perfect for people like me. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
For All Abilities – The Podcast Interview with Allie Mason: A Diagnosis of Autism While in Graduate School In this episode, I interview Allie Mason. We discuss the challenge of her diagnosis of autism while she was working on a graduate degree. We also talk about how she has navigated school and work with the diagnosis. To connect with Allie, please follow her on LinkedIn (Allie Mason), on Instagram at whensouthmetnorth and on Facebook at Where Allie Writes. Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcript from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:03 Hi, everybody, welcome back to for all abilities, the podcast. I am so excited to be here to bring another guest for you to learn about what she's doing in the world. This podcast is all about showing the world the amazing things that people who are near neuro diverse are doing, and why our differences are so important to all of our strengths and our world community. So please welcome Allie Mason. Hey, Allie, thank you for being on the by. Allie Mason 0:38 No problem. I'm really happy to be here. Betsy Furler 0:40 Yeah, so why don't you introduce yourself to my my listeners. Allie Mason 0:47 So yeah, I'm Ali. I'm from England as you'll be able to tell from the accent, and I was recently within the last couple of months diagnosed as autistic whilst I'm studying for a postgraduate To great university. Betsy Furler 1:02 That's amazing. It's so incredible how many people are now being diagnosed as adults, I think it really points to the fact that we're probably missing a lot of kids who we could be giving more support to when they were younger. So, yeah, so I'd love to hear about what you were like as a little girl. Allie Mason 1:23 So, I would say that I was academically gifted, but socially challenged as a child. And I think that's really common for a lot of people who are either diagnosed as autistic as a child or who grow up and end up diagnosed as adults because we have certain subjects or interests that we can really focus on and excel in, and then it will come to talking to the people around you making friends and that kind of stuff. And that's why things get difficult for us. Betsy Furler 1:58 What were some of your friends favorite things to do when you were a little girl? Like what were your kind of high interest areas. Allie Mason 2:07 I really, really loved to read. I can remember that the only time I would get in trouble at school is when I was caught reading behind my textbooks. Really? Yeah, it's a really cute but kind of sad way of getting in trouble at school. But yeah, I read so much. I was out of the we had a little school library in my in my primary school. So when I was there up to the age of 11, and I read through that by the time I was halfway through school, so then I was moved on to out of books and started reading books from the adult library in town. So reading was a huge, huge part of my childhood for me. Betsy Furler 2:49 What kind of what genre do you like? Allie Mason 2:52 At the time, I really loved fantasy, so I was reading a lot of things like Harry Potter and vampire Knight And anything that had an adventure and a hero or heroine in it, though they would be my go to books. Betsy Furler 3:08 So what do you like as an adult? Are you still a reader? Allie Mason 3:11 I'm an avid reader, I really love to read. I've got more into nonfiction as I've got older. So I really like to read about people who've done amazing things in their lives and just get inspiration from that. Betsy Furler 3:26 Oh, yeah, I love that too. I'm really I really love mysteries. And I love mysteries as a little girl and continue to love mysteries as an adult. But I've gotten also more and more into the nonfiction and I'm really fascinated by people and how people work in the world. And so yeah, I like I like that too. And so after So, I, you did well in school, and it sounds like you had no behavioral problems. You know, you were just reading so sounds like if that's what you're in trouble for. You probably were pretty well behaved. And did your friend Emily think did they have any concerns about you? Or did they just think you were quirky and, and more, you're cared more about books than you cared about friends? Allie Mason 4:10 I would definitely say they just thought I was a bit quirky. It's really interesting, actually, because my mom has always worked as a special needs teaching assistant for most of her career. So she was surrounded by young people who had various additional needs all day long, and yet she'd come home and she didn't notice that in me, which, looking back with hindsight, I find really interesting. But they were definitely concerned that I didn't go out to play as much with the other children. And I'd say no, no, I'm gonna stay in my room. I'm gonna finish my book. So that they're grateful that I'm not as bad at that anymore. Betsy Furler 4:51 Do you have siblings? Allie Mason 4:53 Yeah, I have a younger brother. His name is Josh and he was always the sports athletic, popular guy at school people were always shocked when they found out we were related. Betsy Furler 5:06 Oh, that's funny. Totally different personality is a Allie Mason 5:10 complete opposite. Betsy Furler 5:13 So after you finished in grade school in high school, did you go on to university? Allie Mason 5:21 Yes. So I went straight off to college to university to study theology. And I think I heard in a different podcast that you did religion as well. Betsy Furler 5:31 Yes, my, at my college we were not allowed to declare a minor but my minor would have been religion. I had enough. I had enough credits. I almost had enough credits actually to have a third major in religion. Yeah, I loved it. Those were some of my favorite classes. Allie Mason 5:48 Absolutely. I loved the three years that I spent studying theology, so I specialized in studying Christianity whilst I was there and I just adored that and then Something that I'd really like to get more into again. Betsy Furler 6:05 What was your goal for your degree? Were you planning to go on to seminary after that? Or did you or it or was it just your interest? Allie Mason 6:16 At the time, it was just my interest. It was a case where I finished my college. So my a levels, and I had so many things that I could officiate. So I was really interested in English and history and languages, and I just kind of felt a bit overwhelmed. And I wanted to try something a bit different because I hadn't done Religious Studies at college. I missed it a bit from when I was younger, and I thought, well, I've got too many options. So I'll make it easy for myself and I'll just do this one and it totally paid off. Mm hmm. Betsy Furler 6:54 So then, when you graduated, with that first degree, so is that Considered is that called a Bachelor's? And yes, yeah, glad. Okay. So it's like it has her. And where did you What did you do after that? Allie Mason 7:08 So after I graduated, I made a really risky decision to go into teaching. And I say that was a risky decision because with the knowledge that I have now, I would not have made the same, made the same choice, but I went to be a religious studies teacher. So I was teaching for four months in an inner city school, and I come from the rural countryside in England, so I was not prepared for that change of environment. And I really loved working with the kids and I really loved helping them to learn new things, not just about religion, but about themselves as well. That being autistic. There were a lot of things that I struggled with that that didn't match up and that ultimately led me to leave Betsy Furler 8:00 Oh, okay, interesting. But at the time you didn't you, you were not thinking you had autism at the time, correct? Allie Mason 8:08 That's correct. Yeah. Betsy Furler 8:10 Okay. So So what made you decide to go back and go to university? Again? Allie Mason 8:17 I think I, after I struggled so much teaching and as you say, I didn't know I was autistic at the time, but I could recognize the the problems that I was having. And I thought, well, where in my life have I succeeded before where I didn't encounter these problems. And my thoughts immediately went to the university setting in academia, which is something I have always thankfully done while in and so I thought, well, rather than teach children, I can help them behind the scenes, so to speak, if I go into educational research, so that's the degree that I'm doing at the moment is Educational Research at the University of Oxford, huh? Betsy Furler 9:00 That's, um, you know that I know here in the United States, it's changed the, the education environment is just rapidly changing because of COVID-19. And so it'll be interesting to see what happens in that field in the very near future. As you know, we have to kind of rethink the way our schools are set up. And so are you going to pursue that? Or are you going to pursue something different? Allie Mason 9:27 I think I'm going to pursue something different. I think I've learned a lot from my time doing this master's degree and exploring research methods and things like that. And I want to take that and apply it more to writing because another thing that I did as a child, as well as read was write my own stories and my own poems, and that's something that stayed with me throughout my childhood up until now is I'm a big writer, and I think that those research skills are actually really, really helpful when it comes to crafting a good piece of writing. Betsy Furler 10:06 Right, right. So right now I had read on your LinkedIn and we talked a little bit about it earlier that you're in a screenwriting program. So tell us a little bit about applying for that and what you're doing with that. Allie Mason 10:21 Yeah, so one of the things that I've really focused on during the lockdown is my writing but also pursuing opportunities to publicize my writing that I necessarily hadn't done before then, and I came across this chance to be part of a screenwriting program. It's a 10 week course with a playwright dawn King. And she leads us in our sessions and she gives us guidance and advice, and we work on our own manual manuscripts as well. And I have to just submit an idea that had for a play, which I did. My idea is centered around an autistic protagonist, funnily enough. Betsy Furler 11:10 But yeah, I'm excited Allie Mason 11:11 to see where that goes. Betsy Furler 11:13 Yeah, that's so exciting. I am really passionate about the accurate just portrayal of all sorts of differences and disabilities and film. And so when I saw that I was like, Oh, that's so cool. I mean, what, what better person for it to come from than someone who actually is autistic, too? Yeah. Write something that is an accurate and respectful portrayal and, and does show the world and the strengths, the strengths and the differences and the struggles and the triumphs. So that's really exciting. I'm so excited for you getting to do that. Allie Mason 11:55 Thank you. I think you're absolutely right. One of the things that I've found when I've been Exploring autistic representation is that so many of the stories that are written about us are written by people who aren't autistic. And as much as I appreciate that, many of these authors will have done a lot of research before producing these stories, as you say, Who better for it to come from than those of us who are autistic and who think this way and have to live with this experience every single day? Betsy Furler 12:31 Right? Right. And it's very interesting to me. Like you and some of my previous guests have had so much insight into themselves and and how they feel and move through the world. And how I mean, I think that probably led to your diagnosis as an adult, it was your ability to see insight, you know, what's going on inside yourself, which so many people don't have like, that's really a remarkable skill. And to have that ability and then also to be able to write and get that information out there. I think that's a very, very unique and special skill strength that you have. So I can't wait to hear I can I can't wait to keep in touch and hear what, what that all leads to Allie Mason 13:19 an absolutely. Betsy Furler 13:21 So I'm sure people are going to want to connect with you How is the best way for them to do that? Allie Mason 13:28 So I've recently set up my own Facebook page so you can find me, I'm called where Ali writes on Facebook, and that's where I'm posting links to all of my articles that I'm writing at the moment and I'll post a link to this podcast once it goes up. And I'm also on Instagram and my handle is when South met north. Betsy Furler 13:54 Okay, so where Ali writes and then when South met North Perfect. Yeah. Awesome. Well, I know people are gonna want to find out more about you. And I am really looking forward to following your writing career. I think that it sounds like you, you were able to move in the direction of your strengths. And even though your graduate degree is not exactly what you're doing in your life, it sounds like it was very, very helpful and, and probably also gave you that time in an environment where you felt comfortable in order to really figure out what the next step should be. Allie Mason 14:37 Yeah, that is so right. I think that even though I'm not necessarily subject wise, following where I am with my degree at the moment, it's been such a formative experience for me. I've met so many incredible people. And I've also received such great support from the department I'm in at the university which has really given me the confidence to speak out about my support needs and not to be ashamed of them. Betsy Furler 15:03 Yes. Oh, absolutely. I'm so glad you brought that up. Because that is something else I'm so passionate about is that people deserve the you know, whether you call them accommodations or support or both whether someone's diagnosed or not diagnosed with anything. we all we all work better, we're more productive, more efficient, and the world moves more smoothly if we get the support that we need it need. So we're really glad to hear that your university has provided that and also that you've been able to, to, you'll be able to take that out into the workplace if you if you do end up working for somebody else at some point. Allie Mason 15:46 Exactly. Yeah. I just feel really fortunate because as I said, I was only diagnosed recently so I was diagnosed two months ago. I was going through this experience whilst I was at university, and nevertheless from the beginning explained what my difficulties were and why I thought that they were that way. And I've just had so much support. And I think that's what I want to give back to our community is not to be afraid to speak up and to explore. If you are maybe neurodivergent. And there may be something out there that can help you. Betsy Furler 16:19 Yes, yes. Because it's not a it's not a weakness. It's a it's a difference a difference. And I think we're all stronger when we recognize our differences. Absolutely. Well, it has been a pleasure talking to you today and I will in my show notes. I will put a link to your Facebook group. We're alley right. And then your Instagram when? When South Tell me tell me Instagram again. Yeah. When South north south oil, yes, just a little reference to the fact but I'm from the north of England, but I'm currently living in the south and exploring my opportunities there. Awesome. So I'll put a link both to the Facebook page and to your Instagram so people can connect with you. So yes, thank you and listeners. Thank you so much for tuning in today. And please rate reviews, subscribe to the podcast on whatever podcast platform you are listening on. And please share this podcast with your friends. I really want the world to realize what wonderful people we have out there who may think or work differently than the imaginary norm, but who is who are just bringing so much good to our world. So thanks for listening and I will talk to you all soon. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
On this episode, I interview Michael Szafron - Sales and Marketing Consultant and Owner of Autistic Superpowers! On the podcast, Michael talks about his early life and diagnosis of Autism later in life. He talks about how Autism impacted his career and his early career in retail sales and the impact that learning sales scripts had in his professional and personal lives. We also discuss the ups and downs in his career and the importance of his coworkers understanding his autism. To connect with Michael, please follow him on LinkedIn (Michael Szafron). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Hi, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning into forel abilities. I've got another special guest with me today. And in a minute he's going to introduce himself and he is going to talk about later in life diagnosis of autism and how that's affected his life. Both his personal life and his work life which he has some really interesting insights on that. If you are listening to this podcast please obviously you are listening to this podcast. Please share with your Friends, please review and rate the podcast, you can do that on whatever platform you're listening to the podcast on. So thank you again, this podcast is all about understanding our differences and understanding our strength is our difference. And that if we all sit inside that imaginary box of the norm, we would have a really boring and unproductive society. So I'm so excited to have Michael here with me today. Michael, please introduce yourself to my audience. Michael Szafron 1:33 Hey, everybody, I'm Michael saffron. I run a business management consulting company, if I'm the only one in it, and I get to work with a lot of different really interesting things now, but it's been a long journey to get here and I think we're going to go through that with with Betsy. Betsy Furler 1:52 Yeah. So thank you again for being here. And how I usually start the show is by asking my guests about their childhood. So could you tell us what you were like as a little boy? Michael Szafron 2:04 Well, I mean, I hear a lot from my parents about how I was. But you know, looking back, you know, my childhood was was quite a bit of a struggle. I really didn't have very many friends at all. I guess when you have like a university vocabulary when you're five years old, you don't make a lot of friends. And it was very interesting. It was very trying. And as I went through, you know, elementary school is probably more grade five, grade six, I really wanted to start having friends. And I couldn't figure out why kids didn't like me or want to talk to me, you're hanging out with me and made fun of me and beat me up and that kind of stuff. So I started really studying what they were doing, what they were saying and how they were agreeing. And then I still didn't have any friends. But eventually, you know, towards junior high and then getting a little older. I started to get a bunch of people Things that that people, you know, I guess neurotypicals do is standard greetings. How are you? You know, it's interesting because I really don't care about how their weekend was but there's all this chitchat that you have to do with people so that they feel comfortable with you and don't feel that you're that you're strange. Betsy Furler 3:19 Yeah, that's really interesting. I, I'm a extreme extrovert and an extremely social person. So yeah, some of those things that come so naturally to some people are really difficult for other people. And a imagine as a child, that is extremely confusing. Michael Szafron 3:42 Yes, it certainly is. But again, you know, you set up sort of goals and, you know, I wanted to be able to interact with people and have and have friends and really not, you know, it was just it was really trying but then eventually, you know, I got in with a group of people In high school, I started doing band and i and i did baseball and, and started having some some, you know, good friends and acquaintances don't really talk to many of those people anymore. But, you know, life got a lot better when I when I got to high school and started finding things to do and it got a lot better. Betsy Furler 4:20 That's interesting too because I think it is really important for kids really adults to to kind of have a tribe, I kind of have a group of people that they have something in common even if you are a person who's very different different than other children. I think our our society, our educational system in particular is very much set up where the average student or the average kid is the one who everything revolves around. You know, you're not if you're a kid, he's really an outlier. I know one of my sons was very much like this. And he's he's much more adult he was much more adult like, so when you're a six year old and you act like an adult in many ways and you get along really well with adults, you don't really get along that well with other six year old who is who your social circle is and everything about you is based on your interactions with those kids. Um, but I think it's it's great that you kind of found even if it wasn't people that you had a ton of stuff in common with at least something that you some people that you have something in common with in band and in baseball. And so were you. Were you a very good student from an academic standpoint. Michael Szafron 5:51 I mean, I did okay, I I've also got ADHD. So I really got distracted a lot daydreamed a lot. I mean pretty good at math and science. But if I didn't, if I wasn't engaged in the material, I mean, it takes three seconds for me to check out and be on the beach thinking about something else. So my, I mean, I did pretty well in school, but the things were, I would only do well the things that I liked and the things that I didn't like. I was pretty much checked out. Betsy Furler 6:20 Yeah, probably didn't care too much about them. Yeah. And what did you do after high school? Michael Szafron 6:28 So after high school, I went to university for a year and a half. And it was just, you know, interesting in the 90s. And, you know, my son, my friends, were getting jobs and stuff, and I just, I just couldn't do the school thing, which which was really tough on my parents because they, you know, extreme academics all the way through the family. So my dad taught the university for years so they were pretty upset when I chose after a year and a half to leave and go sell computers at a retail store. Which, in Canada is called future shop I grew up in Canada, it's the same as Best Buy, but actually turned out to be one of the absolute best moves I ever made. One of the really interesting things that really helped me socialize and build a career was going to future shop. I, they took me to another town Calgary and put me in a hotel for a month. And I got to go to sales school. And what's very interesting is going to sales school taught me a bunch of skills that I could relate to the rest of my life. So they have a program called guest, which was great understand, educates carry the sale on tank, and it is an absolutely scripted encounter with another human. So when someone comes in you say Hi, my name is Michael, welcome to feature shop, what brings you in today? And then you listen. And then you go through qualification? You know, what have you seen that you've liked? Where else have you been? What are you using it for? And this script can translate into your Personal life, it can translate into other business, learning a script that you can run your life on. It was a lifeline for who I was and where I wanted to go. And I still use a lot of those pieces today. Betsy Furler 8:13 That's so interesting because that's I'm a My background is as a speech pathologist. And so as a speech and speech therapy, we often teach scripts to kids who are struggling with, especially with their social communication skills, and kind of go through ideas of Okay, what can you say here? What can you say there? Because really all of us work on scripts, and they just kind of much more natural for some people than others. And that this the, that idea around the sales piece is really that that is fascinating. I'm going to keep thinking about that actually, for my for my own sales cycle, or my own sales process with my company as well. Maybe I need some more scripts around sales stuff that I'm not very good. Double lab. So that's amazing. So you and I want to remind the listeners that you were not diagnosed at this point. You were diagnosed just a few years ago. So at this point you are going through life. What were you thinking about yourselves? Michael Szafron 9:21 Well, I mean, I because you're looking at the world through your own lens, you don't know that you're really any different. And you're just, you're just trying to adapt and be okay in the world. And it's more of the other people don't know. And they, they think you're a little off and they they're not sure what to think of you. They think of you like a robot like Spock like my you think autistics wouldn't be good in sales and maybe not in the wheel and dealin kind of way but my sales are very scientific, very fact based, very analyzed. You know, and and when you get down through a decision tree, if it's a good deal for them, You support it. And actually, if it wasn't a good deal for them, I tell them to go get something out. Because that's the right thing to do. Right? It was just, I was always just off the curb, it seemed like and as far as you know, relationships and people i didn't i didn't get that it was it was just get there and go do your thing. One of the other interesting things that's happened all my life to is not very good with some with spontaneity. So like even this, this call today, I mean, we've already had about, you know, 300 conversations in my head as I got ready for it, if everything you would say, or I would say, and I still do this stuff now. Like when I was going to have I did that Fight Club event digital Fight Club was Steven. I mean, we probably had, you know, 1000 fights in my head of every possible commutation of conversations that you could imagine. Before I got to that before I got to that moment. So everything thing is always pre rehearsed in your head and it moves very fast. And sometimes that's what keeps you up at night is, you know, going through 1000 conversations. So everything is can from meeting the chair the next day or a customer encounter, or whatever the case may be. So that keeps your head very, very busy a lot of the time. Betsy Furler 11:18 Right. And that must take a lot of energy. Michael Szafron 11:22 It doesn't seem to it just kind of goes, I'm just Betsy Furler 11:27 interesting. And so on off on that topic. And and we didn't discuss this before. We got on the call on the recording. But what about what has happened with COVID-19 with you has that has that changed in everything that we do thrown you off? Michael Szafron 11:50 Well, not really. So well. I mean, there is an adjustment period and I'm very much into very specific routines, but I already spent a lot of time working at home. Okay, a lot of time processing that stuff. Recently now with one of the oilfield services companies, we actually have a contract that requires that died legally come into the office and do work here. Which is interesting. But it, it didn't need to change my routine that much just because of the way that I was already structured. Betsy Furler 12:28 Okay, well, that said, so that was good for you. I mean, it was it was it wasn't too too much of a change. Correct. Because I do think about I know with myself and it changed everything about how I do things. And, and I deal with change fairly well, but you know, it was it was quite an adjustment, but I'd never really worked from home. I've never sat in a desk all at a desk all day every day. Until now. I've spent a lot of time driving around and Going to a lot of social events. And so, I'm learning I'm learning to, to not do that now. And so you were so you so back to your career. So you started in sales selling computers and and did you like technology and computers a lot at the time? Michael Szafron 13:22 Yeah. And because of the environment I was in my father was a computer science professor. So I was I was fortunate to have computers ever since I was probably ever since I can remember there was a computer at home, like, you know, three, four or five years old. We always had stuff and I was in computer science and, and, you know, I learned how to program when I was eight because of my cousin, my father and things. So it was a natural thing to go into. Betsy Furler 13:48 Oh, that's amazing. But you kind of you kind of fell into it too, or you went a bit against the grain to leave school and go into sales. Although it sounds like that. was a good news. Michael Szafron 14:01 No, it was a good move. And it was great in the store and following the scripts and it was a great company and they, you know, really nurture young kids. You don't make a lot of money in retail, but it really teaches you a lot of things about business. And I was in Edmonton, and then you know, within eight months, they put me into the manager training program move me down to a little town called Medicine Hat, or they stick a bunch of people and then I was there for about five months and then I was the sales manager the old left bridge feature shop store. And they brought a bunch of guys in that are actually still really good friends till now. And yeah, it was they put the best the best to try turnaround that store and we didn't built a new store. And I mean, that was really, really, really good time. I learned a lot about a lot of things at that time. And then it you know, craziest career paths. A friend of mine calls me up and said, Hey, I got this bootstrap startup. Electronic Medical software company out of Winnipeg, Manitoba, need someone for Edmonton, which is where I was from, do you want to? Do you want to move back and do that? I was like, Sure. So I made the plunge into that startup. And we did well, and there's a bunch of m&a that happened. And then finally, they got sold to the national Telecom. I'm going to give you the real Coles notes version of mine. And then, and then a friend met me for coffee and he goes, Hey, do you want to sell top drives? And I said, That's interesting. What's the top drive? And he goes, you'll figure it out. I'm moving down to Houston. And that's when I got into oilfield and started working for Tesco Corporation. Way, Way at the infancy and miscue were actually with this lady Linda sorry. Who was the founders nice. In Cobra trucking miscue. And I was definitely the oddball in the oil field at that time having worked for medical software and selling computers And, you know, I didn't know anything about the oilfield, but it was amazing how I was able to go to clients and just say, Hey, I'm the new guy. This is what I do. Tell me about it. Guys from enzyme energy really showed me what the top drive was and how drilling worked. And they, they sent me out to rigs and, and all kinds of stuff was was really interesting. And then it really started to snowball. I couldn't figure out why it took two weeks to do a quote. So I ran it down and started a whole infrastructure system for quoting that took only five minutes to create. And they promoted me to commercial manager. And then finally they asked me to move down to Houston 10 years ago, I guess almost 11 years ago, they they moved me down. And I took a global group took over global sales. I traveled the world, you know, more than 35 countries I've been to and done business with everywhere. Very, very fortunate. And then what was interesting There was I had this new boss who was a really great mentor, his name is Fernando. And every time I went to his office, he would always say, you know, being smart is not enough. And I could never figure out what that meant. Notice before I was diagnosed, it was all it was all the soft stuff. So they, they did a 360 where they interview all these people, and you know, my scores were very interesting. So, you know, empathy and understanding and all this stuff was like, Whoa, bottom, bottom basement scores, but, you know, analytical thinking creativity, a bunch of ones were off the charts. They're like, What is wrong with this kid? So they, you know, they wanted me to good manager and my management skills were really poor and I didn't know why and they didn't really know why. So they sent me to Guild, which was an amazing workshop. I had a, you know, personal coach, who's still you know, follow some of my LinkedIn stuff and comments. And I remember meeting with her for the first time and she Like, so when you go to meetings, you ever bring doughnuts? I said, Why would I ever bring doughnuts to a meeting? And she's like, how do you respond to emails? And she looked at some of my stuff, and she's like, okay, whenever someone sends you something, I need to thank them. So she gave me a whole bunch of mechanical tools that I could use them on sticky notes all the way around my monitor. Betsy Furler 18:21 Yeah, kind of more scripts. Michael Szafron 18:23 Right. It was it was more scripts to interface in business, more professional business at a higher level. So I went through that, and then they're like, man, his kid is still not figuring it out. So they did. Emotional Intelligence course. So they flew me out to Bangkok, Thailand, we did a week long course out there. And, you know, I didn't really get it, but I definitely learned how to pass the test. You know, memorize that book front to back, you take the follow up test, you know what the answers need to be and then keep going. Right, right. So then, oh, man, then it gets crazy. And then I was, you know, really recruited to a tele medical services company they wanted someone with oilfield it and medical experience. I was there. And then I worked for an Israeli MRI company that wanted to move to the US. And then finally I ended up starting a business consulting company and, and turn through that and during that phase you know, I was still I read this book called very last lap, very late diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome. And realize that, you know, this was me. So I went and got a and and got diagnosed and I went and told my parents, my family and everybody and they're like, no, you're just smart. You're not you're like us. We're like that too. Okay, so I'm like, you know, when about another year and I'm like, I need to go back. So I went down and other psychiatrists took whatever the newer test is, and it came back definitive as well. So it was just very interesting. But the the thing that made the difference, getting diagnosed was then being free to tell people. So now when I work with people, there's a guy, Michael McCreary if you heard of him, no. So he's a Canadian guy at a Toronto. He's called the aspi. comic. And he does a lot of really great material. And whenever I work with people now I tell them, I'm autistic, I usually wear an artistic button to conferences. And if I, if I'm going to work with someone, I also I send them all this video to watch. And I also tell them, you know if I say something wrong, or if you get offended, because I say a lot of facts that sometimes offend people, you know, just just let me know, and let me know how I could have phrased that better. You know, so I, everybody that works with me now gets a little crash course on autism awareness and what it means and how to interact with people. And that's done amazingly well. People don't get you know, upset when I say fax in a meeting anymore. They say, Michael, this is why we're all upset about what you just said. And I learned from them keep going. Betsy Furler 21:07 That's, that's incredible. I i that is amazing that you have those self advocacy skills. And I think that many people would would benefit from being able to do the same thing. And it's something that I as I've gotten older, I've been more upfront with people in my life of, you know, saying I think it's partially because of my training as a speech pathologist and I, I have this sense for many people that they're not meaning to offend you, they just do accidentally and if you say, Look, when you said that, this is how it made me feel, or I really need to know this information from you. Not that then they're like, Oh, yeah, no problem. Here you go. As opposed to not being up front with people and ending up having a lot of poor communication and bad feelings about Situations Michael Szafron 22:02 write well, and it, I think it helps them more than me, I still don't know why I'm upset by it. Betsy Furler 22:07 Exactly. Right. Exactly. And it helps the other person, or, you know, the person kind of who's sitting on my side of the table to be able to understand you better. But that's amazing that you're able to do that. And that that's really, I'm sure, a huge part of your success, but also such a gift to the people that you are dealing with. Michael Szafron 22:36 Well, I mean, it's, it's interesting, I think there is still a bit of a, I mean, people will still think you're weird, but at least they can appreciate, you know, some of the stuff and then you know, like my old boss used to say being smart enough. It's all the soft skills that makes a difference in business and a lot of things and you try to learn those skills, but there is there is still you know, sort of us stigma against autism, I think because when I, I published an article sort of my first, you know, coming out to the network that I'm autistic and here's what it's about and blah, blah, blah. I had so many comments saying that was brave. And then finally asked, I said, Why was that brave? That wasn't brave? I said, Yeah, because people think autistics are XYZ that's like, wow, I really was. Interesting. Betsy Furler 23:25 Yeah, I think we've I think there's been a lot of progress made. I think there's a lot of progress left to be made as well. Because I do think it maybe that's coming from a neurotypical standpoint to Unknown Speaker 23:41 have Unknown Speaker 23:43 it you know, is it Betsy Furler 23:46 because if as a neurotypical person I really care about whether what other people think of me and and, you know, and possibly you coming from and all artistic standpoint, you don't care that much about what other people think. And so, so maybe you feel of it as more of an information where I'm like, oh, that took so much of your heart to express that. And yeah, I mean, I think we still have a lot to learn about other people's perspective and realizing that not everybody thinks the same way we do. And I'm speaking from as a neurotypical person. You know, we, I know we can really project our own feelings on other people. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, and I do think i think but i think i think the world has has changed. Is is changing, I would say, I would say is changing. I think that one of the reasons I started this podcast I have I don't even know if you know this, but I think my listeners now I talked about it enough. I have a software company where I'm helping employer support their employees who think and work differently. And including ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences, autism, etc. And because what I saw as a professional was that people were so misunderstood on the job, and especially people can who can kind of pass for, quote unquote, normal that normal bots. And they end up having so many problems at work, because the people that are working around don't understand them, and so therefore, they're not able to work to their potential and not able to be as productive or efficient as they could be if they weren't forced inside this box that they don't really fit in. And, and so, so, as I started, as I started doing this, I started talking to some of my advisors and other people, other people in kind of an advisory role. Not necessarily my Direct advisers but people in an advisory role a lot of tech people, and several people expressed to me how thankful they were that I was doing this, because they have one of these conditions, but they're so embarrassed about it that they don't ever tell anyone. And, and these were like amazing, successful, wonderful people. And I was like, Really? You're like this, that it surprised me It surprised me the level of that and also several families that I met who were just devastated by their child's diagnosis. And I was like, you know, this isn't a death sentence and this isn't even something to be fixed. This is something to understand and work with and, and, and be able to bring out the gifts and people gifts on all of us and the differences in all of us. So anyway, I think I think what you are doing for the people that you work with is absolutely amazing, both to help them understand you better and probably you're able to work more productively and efficiently when they do. But also for the for other people with autism and other other types of neuro diversity. Michael Szafron 27:17 Yeah, no. And they're just to know why like, they think sometimes it might be in malicious behavior, you're doing things specifically to hurt them and you're not. They just take it that way. They need to know that it's not malicious. Betsy Furler 27:32 Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. Well, that's fantastic. And, and I'm also I also think it's amazing that you went for that second opinion, for your diagnosis. I think that was probably helpful for your family. Maybe not so much for yourself, but again, again, for other people in your life. Michael Szafron 27:52 Well, I mean, it was just it was just fact checking, right? Like it was like, Okay, well, maybe and you do some reading some things and Okay, well, maybe, maybe not. Or, I guess, yes. Betsy Furler 28:03 Well, and I mean, I think it's the same as getting a medical diagnosis of any other type. You know, if you go somewhere and a doctor diagnose you with something, it's, you know, it's not always the best thing to just go, Oh, okay. That's what I have, you know, you frequently Well, I mean, our family frequently will go on to another doctor and get another opinion because just one person's opinion is not always accurate. And so, and but, but you rarely hear of someone getting a second opinion on a diagnosis of autism or ADHD. Um, I, I've, I don't know if I've ever heard of that. I've heard maybe a couple of times, but that's a it's a rare story. Um, so thank you so much for being here. Is there anything else you wanted to tell my audience Michael Szafron 28:57 there was one last thing that came to mind when you We're talking about people and and the stigma and people who worry about the diagnosis of a child or something like that. When one of my friends, he used to work with me back at Tesco, he's, he's an engineer with an MBA, but he's actually really personable and fun. And he wants to start up a career as an industrial comic, which is kind of a side gig. And he came up to me and he was a little bit sort of hesitant, because he had this new bit that he wrote about autism. And he wants to try it out. I'll be of course, I don't know, dude, it's totally cool. I got you. And it was really funny because it was about vaccinations. And he starts talking about, you know, I don't know what's wrong with all these people that worry about, you know, their child's getting autism by getting a vaccination. Because I'll tell you what, if there was a way that my child could get autism, look at these people, they're successful. They're engineers, they're scientists. They're, I mean, he's looking at high functioning. Autism right about Yeah, and all the benefits and the superpowers. I mean, he's like, look at you, like if I could get a vaccine that would guarantee my child has autism, I'd be lined up around the street to get that thing. So, it was just, it was very interesting that you know, that stigma is starting to shift because he is, you know, 100% neurotypical. Betsy Furler 30:22 Right, yeah, yeah. And, and I, I so love and appreciate people with autism and ADHD and all sorts of other forms of nerd diversity and and love the, the difference that that you all bring to the world and, and such a different outlook on life than I have. And, and it really like it. I appreciate it so much. I appreciate that creativity and thinking in such a different way. It's so valuable, and that's really cool that he is developing that That routine, and at the end that he ran it by you first, just to make sure, Michael Szafron 31:06 yeah, not to offend anybody, but it was really good material. So, Betsy Furler 31:09 exactly. Well, if my audience wants to connect with you, what's the best way for them to do that? Michael Szafron 31:16 Best way to find me is gonna be on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active on there. I've also published a lot about autism and also sales and other things. So LinkedIn is probably the best way to find me get a hold of me, send me a message Connect. Betsy Furler 31:30 Okay, and your last name is spelled with an S and is sc. Right? Michael Szafron 31:36 Yes. z AFR o n. Michael. To be confused with my my cousin Microsoft friend who's a who's a math professor. Betsy Furler 31:49 Oh, interesting. Yeah, cuz you have that very unusual last name, but you know, same name, as somebody related to Michael Szafron 32:01 run in families. I'm the one that says autistic superpowers in my headline. Betsy Furler 32:06 Okay, awesome. That'll be a great way for everyone to find you. Well, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for being on the show today. Michael Szafron 32:14 Thanks very much. Appreciate it. Betsy Furler 32:15 Yes. Great and tell my listeners thanks so much for tuning in. Again, please rate and review the podcast on whatever podcast outlet you're listening to us on. And please share my podcast with all your friends and family. Thanks again.
On this episode, I interview Marc Almodovar - ADHD Speaker, Wellness Coach and Advocate. On the podcast, Marc talks about his life and diagnosis of ADHD as a teenager. He talks about how ADHD impacted his career and educational choices . We discuss his virtual support group and the importance of support especially in relation to the stigma that some people with ADHD feel. To connect with Marc, please follow him on LinkedIn (Marc Almodovar), email him at wellnesswithmarc@gmail.com and his Facebook Group for men with ADHD - ADHD Men’s Support Group. You can find the book he co-authored: Our Transformative Journey – A Gift of Healing to The World https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RH834F7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_wOIQEbSR2F3GA Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:08 Hi, everybody welcome back to for all abilities, the podcast. I'm so excited. You're all here to join me for another special guest. As you know for all abilities, the podcast is all about how our world works better with people with all kinds of brains that work differently and add more creativity, more ingenuity and more. And that's the way it's just the way that our world gets things done. If we all have the same brain it would be super boring. So for all abilities is dedicated to showing the world the wonderful things that people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences, autism, other forms and neuro diversity and disabilities are changing the world and making it a better place. So one of those People is Mark and Mark I'm gonna have you introduce yourself. Thank you so much for joining us today. Marc Almodovar 1:07 Hey, I'm super excited to be on and any opportunity I get to collaborate with anybody doing work in the mental health field means the world to me, so I'm pumped to be on your show. I am I am. What I do is i'm a speaker. I'm a coach and I'm a co author with an ADHD brain. And my work is dedicated to helping ADHD men with insecurities overcome them so that they can see their greatest strengths and the great leaders that they can be. I share a very similar philosophy that you have no we we are people that have a place in the world that we are people that can do amazing things. So for me, I get great fulfillment in helping men with ADHD realize that they have that to offer. Betsy Furler 1:55 Awesome well, and tell our audience and your your last night And also the name of your Facebook group. We're going to talk about it more at the end, but I want to just make sure to get that out there. So people hear that before we launch into your story. Marc Almodovar 2:10 Sure, um, my my, my mobile My full name is Mark Mundo var that can be about four weeks. Usually when people see that last name, they're like, oh, how do I say that? But I'm gonna go var is my last name. And the Facebook group that I run for ADHD men is is titled ADHD men support group were found on Instagram and Twitter for ADHD men support that's the handle. But yeah, ADHD men support group is the Facebook group that I run. Betsy Furler 2:36 Awesome. nice, easy name. Marc Almodovar 2:38 Yeah, super, super easy, super convenient. Um, I I have some familiarity with the ADHD audience and i what i what I've learned in the past year and a half is that, um, is the more simple the better. Unknown Speaker 2:52 Yeah, yeah. Unknown Speaker 2:54 Yeah. Well, Betsy Furler 2:56 so thanks again for being here. And I would love to hear little bit about what you were like growing up. So what were you like as a little boy in your family and in school? Marc Almodovar 3:07 Yeah. So um, I pretty much knew my entire life that I was somebody who was a little bit different. I mean, going all the way back to like being like three, four years old and and learning how to tie my shoes. I was somebody who I remember most kids like learning almost pretty much right away. But it was something for me that I kind of struggled to pick up on. And if you look back at my years and kindergarten early years, and like first grade, second grade, most of my teachers would actually report that I wasn't Contrary to popular belief that what we think of ADHD always is, I actually wasn't this kid who was super hyper hyperactive and impulsive and yelling in class and stuff. I was actually very quiet in class. My teachers would describe me as somebody who was there, but never really there. If that makes any sense. I was typically spending a lot of my time mind wandering on almost little to to no attention given to the class that was going on. And it's just clear like if even if you look at like a lot of the pictures that my, my dad had captured me as a child, I'm almost never looking directly into the camera and I'm always kind of found in my own world. So I'm somebody who was essentially the the mind wander. The interesting thing though, is that there was this there was a dichotomy there that whenever something did manage to capture my interest, I wasn't just focused, you know, it was an above and beyond hyper focus type of thing. I'm very, very passionate. So for example, like my childhood my interest was Batman. So I was I was pretty much the kid who not only watched it Yeah. episodes been new all the behind the scenes directors and everything like that. So it was very interesting dichotomy with me. To make us make a long story short, I basically lived up until I was I was 16 without a name for my thing as we as we like to say. So at the age of 16, I was a junior in high school and I was somebody who was also struggling with severe depression, I had a very high amount of anxiety. And this year in school, my mother had received a phone call that no parent wants to receive from my guidance counselor at the time, basically letting her know that I was most likely not going to be able to make it to the next grade. And my mother as many parents reacted was was was devastated by this and, um, you know, she is she she felt very insecure about her own parenting, a lot of things that a lot of the struggles that parents are baby parents with ADHD kids go through. And that moment for me was a time where I kind of I talked to my mom I was like, hey, like there's something something a little bit different about me here. You know, like I'm I'm struggling I am struggling with my mental health socially. And I think that I need some help. And her being the amazing mother she is she went out and got me the support that I needed and I started seeing a psychiatrist and took all the different tests and voila, I was diagnosed with an inattentive ADHD well mostly inattentive, ADHD brain there is a little bit of hyperactivity and fidgeting and stuff like that going on. But I was diagnosed with a mostly inattentive ADHD brain and it was kind of like a, an amazing moment for me because it was first my first time I have a sense of self awareness, you know. So Betsy Furler 7:00 Do you How did you do academically in school when you were younger? Marc Almodovar 7:04 So academically yeah so my I was kind of just I'm just most like one my first and second grade I was like like a BC student and never really I can't recall a time or ever made straight A's I school was never something that came naturally for me I remember like poor I having poor handwriting. As I stated earlier like and attentiveness in class definitely disorganization I mean, my desk was typically the messiest of all Betsy Furler 7:39 right, right these Marc Almodovar 7:40 are these are some of the things that that stand out for me academically and then and then come High School. That's when I I did pretty pretty poorly in school I would say. Because again, my my, my my interest in and my my, my intention just was not was not there. You know, as I as I grew older, I started showing up and things like, time management was definitely an obstacle for me was not was not so good. But, um, yeah, these are some of the things that that really stand out in my own academic performance. Betsy Furler 8:17 Yeah, and I think teenagers they kind of have a lack of often have a lack of motivation about academics anyway, they don't see the point of learning and all of this that isn't relevant relevant to them. And then if you have that in attentiveness as well, I think it can really snowball. I'm on top of each other and make a huge problem. And did your family was in your family? Were you expected to go to college? What was the expectation around that around higher education? Marc Almodovar 8:50 Yeah, so so so college was definitely expected. Kind of like a like a typical thing where you know, you're you're only seen And in a positive light in your career path if you're going the route of either becoming a doctor or a lawyer or going to school like Harvard and things like that, so on Yeah, I mean, there was definitely some definitely a sense of, I guess, disappointment when people found out though that was that was not wrapped and I had interest in going and the people I looked up to were just a little bit different than what we, you know, what we consider as a successful person in our society. So, yeah, there was definitely a lot of, I guess, social pressure from a lot of different family members saying that I should, should go this route, but there was something intuitively there that I just knew that it just wasn't for me. Right. It wasn't for me and and I, I mean, I looked at the people that I grew up with, and that I have a friend that was friends with, I mean, they were people with different interests. To me, there were people with different strains. When I. So to me, it only makes sense that my path would be different as well. You know, and and that's one thing that I, I really try to push as an advocate, you know, is recognizing that individuality is a thing. It's, you know, Betsy Furler 10:17 we don't all need to go to college, and especially, we don't all need to get a college when we're 18 or 19. And, you know, most kids don't have any idea what they want to do really, at age even if they think they do. Um, I think there are a lot of people out there and careers that they don't even like because they chose that career basically, when they were a teenager, but I really, I'm really impressed with people who can kind of go against that kind of social pressure and say, You know what, this isn't for me, I need to do something. Something else I know it's I know, it's hard and I know it's hard on families when parents haven't expectation that they've had, you know, since the baby was born maybe even before, and it ends up being their friend, but I think it, it's good. Marc Almodovar 11:10 It takes it takes serious bravery and and also to me It takes perspective. You know, like when you're when you're 85 years old, like do you? Do you really want to look back at your life and say that you followed someone else's dream for you? Or do you want to look back through your life saying that I did what was true to my heart, and I stood for what I believed in, and I at least I know, in my case, it's definitely the ladder. Betsy Furler 11:38 Right, right. And there's always you know, I think the other thing is that you don't have to go off to college. I am a person who did go off to college at 18. And I've loved my college experience, and for the academics kind of but more for the social life really, if I'm honest, and you know, I kind of grew up. I grew up there. That's where I became And adults because I kind of slowly had to take care of myself. But, you know, for people who for many people, you know, even if they want to pursue a higher ed degree, they can do it later. It's not It's not something that has to be done at 18. As we mature, our brains are different and sometimes we can we can attend at a later age to something that's completely not interesting when we were younger. So what did you do right after high school so I guess you you ended up getting diagnosed, and he said, that was a huge relief, and you could finally understand yourself. So talk a little bit about how the diagnosis made a difference at the end of high school and then what you went on onto after that? Marc Almodovar 12:50 Yeah, so the diagnosis made it made a big difference. Largely because it really gave me a sense of hope and kind of through a lot of the self shame I was carrying out the window. And I learned for the first time about like how my brain operated and basically the fact that I knew that there was a name for my thing basically led me to say like, okay, like there are some things that I can do about this and there are there are ways that I can get to the other side. So to make a long story short, so I was actually able to graduate high school on time. It was kind of like a barely type of thing. I just barely made it and I'm having treatment for my ADHD at the time was was definitely very helpful. But I will say that as soon as I graduated high school I was I was ready to to get out. I was Yeah, I was I was not somebody who was thinking about college right away. I was I was what I was thinking about is like, how can I what can What can I do to to really learn about myself and and and To figure out what it means to I guess to prioritize my own well being so I had gotten a retail job right after high school and spent a lot of time there I grew within that company. I dedicated a lot of my own time to investing and my personal well being starting attending, like mindfulness classes, studied meditation, I'm looking into my own health and well being with diet and exercise and really changed a lot about my own lifestyle, learn about myself, and then about I would say, maybe like four years after that, I wanted to look at how can I help other people with similar issues as what I had in the past so I went to the the Institute for integrative nutrition I studied coaching skills, holistic health, and I really learned a lot about how I can reach other people with similar brains. And yeah, I really went my own path here and looking back, no regrets whatsoever, you know? Because I it's something that I get great fulfillment isn't an easy path to take. I don't I wouldn't say so. But I think it's it's the path worth taking and and the path that allows me to to wake up with, again, a sense of fulfillment, a sense of knowing that I'm doing what is true to my heart, for lack of a better term, so Unknown Speaker 15:38 dang. Right. So Betsy Furler 15:40 tell us a little bit about your Facebook group for men. Marc Almodovar 15:45 Yeah, so so about a year and a half ago, I started dedicating all of my social media work which is which is kind of just like positivity and motivation, just general stuff like that. Dedicated all of my work to speaking to adults with ADHD and it changed my life forever. I mean, I I was connecting with a lot of people who relate a lot to me. Some people started messaging me saying that they felt very alone. And they had discovered my work. And there was a sense of community for the first time. So I got a really great filament from doing that. And what I started to notice is that a lot of men with ADHD were messaging me saying that they really, really struggled to and they relate to a lot of the different obstacles that I had growing up that I talked about earlier. So I started seeing that trend and noticing that, um, while there were a lot of men diagnosed with ADHD, so few of them were willing to talk about their own personal struggles publicly. So I went on and I created a free support group for ADHD men It started off as a Facebook thing and now it's gotten to a point point where I now co host a a bi weekly zoom meetup. I'm online with my with my good friend john Hazelwood who's known as at St. john john on Instagram. But yeah, it's it's basically a thing where we are eliminating judgment and we are allowing for space for connection and the motivation and what I think is a gift not to be underestimated. Listen, you know, a lot of men with ADHD are struggling during this time of social distancing and everything. I'm feeling understood. This is something that is a really, really great gift and something that we try to offer offer free within this ADHD support group. So Betsy Furler 17:49 what do you what do you think the biggest issues are that men with ADHD have a like both at work and then in relationships? Unknown Speaker 17:59 So So Betsy Furler 18:00 like on your, from your group of people like what do you see as being the common the common issues, Marc Almodovar 18:07 I would say ownership and pride of their, their brain and the way that they operate. I think that within the workplace, we have great fears of doing things like seeking accommodations or talking about our symptoms and saying that something is a little bit uneasy for us. I think due to the fact that there's a lot of stigma that goes on with men growing up that we're, we're kind of taught that we're supposed to be, um, this very, like, tough all the time individual like has no problems whatsoever is on top of everything. And I think that we struggle a lot with admitting that we struggle, you know, that that is that is really the big thing here. So I'm kind of like Learning to to talk about that is is is one of the best things that we can we can give ourselves here, you know, and it's a serious issue we should we should work with managed properly. You know, we feel that we feel the shame, talking about our own personal personal obstacles and it's something that I'm looking to really put an on to. As far as Betsy Furler 19:30 as far as I think, I think that understanding of how other people think and that other people think differently. Yeah. It's It's vital for both personal success and productivity as well as working with other people, whether it's in the workplace or in a personal relationship. Marc Almodovar 19:50 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And then in personal relationships, yeah. Some common obstacles with men with ADHD are often Well, well, disorganization. Can can be something that that can really annoy our partners. There are there's research out there suggesting that adults with ADHD tend to unfortunately have higher divorce rates when they live with their brain, I guess on navigated, but higher divorce rates then what we call the neurotypical person. And this largely has to do with things like disorganization, impulsivity, a lot of men with ADHD struggle with saying things that they don't exactly mean. Right. Right. You definitely. And definitely, I noticed a certain tone there with the writing. But but but maintaining a career is a struggle, and these are all things that that do have an effect on relationships. And the good news is too is that we don't have to let that be our lives. You know that that this can be something Right. these are these are things that we can learn to tackle and learn to get on the other side of and it's an easy journey. Absolutely. But it's the journey we're taking. And as you have mentioned to me when we talk to you know, there are so many success examples of people with ADHD and there's no reason why we men with ADHD can't be that as well. Betsy Furler 21:23 Right and really use it as a superpower because there's so many things about ADHD that make people very successful. And we also talked earlier about how it's so common for an entrepreneur or someone who's an investor. Yeah, CEOs of companies are very frequently have ADHD. So it can also be the traits of ADHD can be so positive. If you can learn how to manage the negativity of it as as well Marc Almodovar 21:56 100% I mean, I was somebody who Like I talked about, like how I had gotten a job early earlier and and I had grown to a manager position and I was somebody who within the meetings, like was always able to offer like to bring, bring new ideas to the table and kind of like just just really, really switched things things up for the better with innovative thinking and speed and all these things. So what a lot of people fail to realize is that there there are places where people really thrive, you know, we work really well when we're under we're under pressure. You know, just just bringing a lot of, I find in my experience, we're really good at bringing a lot of new to the table and that's not a that's not a value that's to be underestimated. Betsy Furler 22:47 Right. I also you know, the other thing I think, is because people with ADHD do frequently just blurt out what they're thinking and rather than But filter of like, oh, should I really be saying this? Well, that can get you in a ton of trouble. It also can make the person you're speaking with really think about, you know, do we need to do it this way? Or is there another option for how to do this and why, you know, maybe this really is a stupid idea, you know? Where were there other others of us who would not speak that honestly. Mm hmm. And and therefore not communicate well because you're, you're managing someone else's emotions rather than speaking from your heart. Marc Almodovar 23:40 When I would add to that is that impulsivity is also and this might come off a little bit, a little bit weird. But I would say that impulsivity is not always a bad thing as well. I personally decided that I wanted to work with the ADHD audience, I impulsively decided that I wanted to study coaching and that I wanted Learn public speaking skills and speak in front of people. I'm posted, we tweeted something motivational this morning. You know, it's all about I'm really, I guess, perspective here. And then. And then as far as the downsides is recognizing that it's something that we can get on top of, you know, I'm a big fan of having a mindfulness practice in place. That has helped me quite a lot. Right. And the big thing here, too, is speak to your emotions. Just nothing. There's nothing wrong with it. You know, like, I'm a big believer that, that we should, we should have therapists and we should have coaches and people like that, that we can talk to you. And my own experience. This is this is a very helpful tool and kind of like opening up that bottle of emotions and reducing the likelihood of it just popping out of nowhere. But just having somebody where you know that you can take off that perfection mask that we think that we need to have that sort of nonsense, and rain yourselves and that's That That, to me is probably the most helpful thing and my own experience of managing impulsivity, you know, um, Betsy Furler 25:08 but you're right. And I think I think that piece is so important that being able to speak your emotions and taking off that mask of perfectionism. I know it took me as a I'm officially neuro typical person. But as I was telling you earlier, as I was 10 minutes late to our call, that I have some traits of a DD and some traits of dyslexia, they usually don't impact my life very much. And my one of the things that those traits didn't serve me in is really like being able to put up that front of being working in the norm and being the norm person. And, and I had I've had to learn later in life, too. You know, it was blocking my ability to to really think big and and move my company forward, because I was always, you know, worried about what somebody's going to think, am I going to say exactly the right thing? You know, it was really socialized to do that. And I had to really unlearn all of those skills that made me a really good student, and a really good employee. Yeah, I had to unlearn that later in life. And, you know, I think it's such a blessing for people to learn that early in life and being able to live their full life, go into a career that they truly love. Instead of kind of having to, you know, relearn what society has taught you for better lack of a better way to say that Marc Almodovar 26:48 100% and, and the big thing that I would mention here too, is to look back at it from like, like the example that I gave, like during my in my childhood, having little to no tension in class whatsoever and being the kid that was always distracted to my my interest in Batman and how, how almost like above and beyond I was often that subject, the same thing can apply to our interests and our passions, you know? For me, it's it's incredibly easy to be attentive and a call like this, you know, we're we're talking about something that that is both of our interest in and a passion of the two of ours, you know, it's it's, for me it's it's a it's a great idea to to invest in and a career path of some sort that you feel is true to you. And were you allowed to be a little bit closer to yourself because it's a really a win win. It's a win for your own fulfillment, and it's a win for the services that you'll be providing. Betsy Furler 27:54 Right. And I think that I think we could I think we could put out a challenge to my little listeners to really keep that in mind, whether it's their own career or what their children want to do, and in allowing their children to really truly embrace their passions, and when they allowing themselves to truly embrace their own passions. Yeah, this has been awesome. And I would love for you to share how people can get in touch with you and learn more about you and maybe join your group. Marc Almodovar 28:28 Sure, so you can connect with me on all social media platforms, I am at wellness with Mark and that's mark with the sea not with the K. And for any men with ADHD or if you know somebody who is a male with ADHD that wants a little bit more connection community and a sense of understanding and their lives. Me and my brother john Hazelwood, we host the ADHD men support group on Facebook and we're doing things like bi weekly zoom meetups, and we're just having a blast over here. So what apps We'd love to have you and if anybody's interested in learning about my own personal journey because I probably say this, because ADHD people can do awesome things. I one of the things that I did in my own personal life is co authored a book, I co authored a book titled our transformative journey. And I have a chapter in there where I talk about all about I go in detail as far as what my relationship was like with ADHD, the changes that I made in my own life and share a lot of my own tips that I find helpful for myself and the clients and the people that I work with. So I'm getting Betsy Furler 29:39 people get that on Amazon. Marc Almodovar 29:41 Yeah, it's on. It's on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, many or any website, you prefer to buy your books, but our transformative journey, a gift, a feeling to the book, destiny. Betsy Furler 29:51 Okay, awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. This is great, and I know it's gonna be very helpful to so many of our listeners. Marc Almodovar 30:00 I'm, I'm pumped to have the opportunity and I think that someone like you should look back at the work that you do and look back at it with great pride. It's work that's needed and, and have learned about it. Betsy Furler 30:15 Awesome. Well, thank you so much, and listeners, thank you so much for joining us today. Please subscribe to for all abilities, the podcast rate and review it on whatever podcast platform you're listening to me on now. And if you want to find out more about me, you can find me on LinkedIn, Betsy Furler. Frank, you are le AR. You can also go to my website for all abilities to find out more about the workplace accommodations work that I do in my software. So thanks for joining us today and I will talk to you all soon.
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Eighteen - Stephanie Robertson In this episode, I interview Stephanie Robertson. We discuss the challenge of her diagnosis of OCD as a very young child and how she has navigated school and work with the diagnosis. To connect with Stephanie, please go follow her on LinkedIn (Stephanie Robertson). Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome to for all abilities, the podcasts. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Have a listen to for all abilities, the podcast, and please subscribe on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Stephanie Robertson 0:34 Hey, Stephanie, welcome to the for all abilities podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. Hi. So I'm gonna have you introduce yourself to my audience. And just tell us a little tell us your full name and a little bit about yourself? Sure, my name is Stephanie Robertson. I am 36 years old. I'm a native officer. And I, which we like to say around here is pretty rare. I work for Dell Technologies. I'm in channel sales. So I do business to business through third party value added resources, and it's a little complex, definitely a little stressful. We like to call it the Dell personality. But it's been really good for me and I'm interested to see where you know where it's gonna go in my life. Awesome. Well, we connected because we were in the same sorority in college, but a few years apart, we will Domini and so we connected because of that. And we were in the best already Kappa Gamma Chi and Austin college. And so we I was I had posted that I'm watching this podcast for all abilities and you had volunteered to be a guest I'm super excited, because you have been diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD. And yeah, I am so excited to hear about how that's affected you throughout your life. So why don't we first start with childhood? And I know you were, you had to have been successful at some point in school because our college is pretty hard to get into. So anyway, so tell me what you were like as a child and kind of how the diagnosis came about and, and how your OCD affected you when you were in school. Yeah, so I think the earliest thing that I really remember related to like OCD and just kind of like finding out about it. My grandparents lived abroad. And so they were living in the south of France, and I was about three or four years old. Maybe just Before my fourth birthday, when my grandmother passed away suddenly, and my parents, there was a big push at the time to be very honest with your children. And so my parents, in the interest of being very honest with their children answered all of my questions about death. very honest. And so, you know, when I, when I would ask things like, well, will we all die? Will you die? Will she die? Will I die? Then the answer to that was yes. And they would say things like, but not for a long time. And I think that that's really shaped a lot of my own parenting, for obvious reasons, but part of it was because when I was four years old, I couldn't tell time. And so a long time for me was 30 minutes in the way that I measured. That was a Flintstone. I was like, yeah, yeah. And so for me, you know, one or two episodes of Flintstones or two to Flintstones was a long time. So that was kind of one of the first times that I really then it came to my parents notice that maybe I thought a little differently or that maybe I had, you know, issues working through other stuff differently than other kids did. And so that started kind of coming out a little bit more after she passed and the funeral and my other grandmother moved in with us for some time and she had a lot of issues around food she was big into like macrobiotics and all of the healthy stuff way before it was cool, if you know what I mean. Yeah. And so like, we weren't allowed to shop on the inside of the grocery store. We could only buy things right in the wall, like the outside walls. We had no sugar cereals in the house because those are poison and all that and you know, my little young brain was just soaking all of that up. And so what was healthy to others became really very unhealthy to me and So my parents called the school and they said, you know, she eating at school because she's not eating at home. And of course, that's a red flag and this, this was in 1989. So OCD wasn't really a thing in 1989 like, not even like a social circle, okay. Oh, you know, people are like, Oh, my, my OCD is kicking up, which is a different topic to me now. But like that wasn't even a thing then people didn't add was saying that. And so to my school, it just panicked them. And so of course they call Child Protective Services. Wow. Because they were like, Why? Why doesn't your daughter want to eat at home? Oh, she thinks he's being poisoned. Cool. Why does your daughter think that that you're poisoning her? So like an active services, came into our lives and interviewed our entire family and me and followed us around for weeks before they realized that no, my parents were not actually doing anything neglectful or abusive. That really what I needed was therapy and about what was going on in my head and, you know, kind of set the stage for how does your child think differently? And luckily, they did that I got a counselor, a play counselor, and I think this all went on from about the ages from five to seven, trying to figure out what was going on. And it took me years to identify, oh, how about your parents are still scarred by that whole CPS? Oh. My mom still tells the story and just talks about, you know, just talks about like, being in the therapists office and, you know, the big test today or the big interview day when when CPS came to interview me, and that when they walked back into the office, I guess I'd hidden like, I'd played hide or seek or something so I was little over and my mom didn't see me in the office and she just about lost it like she thought the baby okay. What Yeah, I have to bust through? Ah ha, oh my goodness. Yeah. So we still talk about that. But um, that was kind of the diagnosis and like the recognition and like I said it took, it took a couple of years to identify it and to figure out what do you do with that? Right and sounds like you were a really, really bright child too, which probably made it all worse because you were able to find more information and remember that information and, and yeah, then you're a little brain was just taking that information and doing all sorts of things. Yes, I was reading voraciously from an early age. I mean, by seven years old, I was reading Little Women by Louisa May Alcott. Uh huh. And, you know, I mean, like I said, my grandparents lived abroad. So I had a concept of the world and know that it's more than just driving distance from a young guy. So, so I did, I just took in all kinds of information all the time and tried to find places for it. And it didn't always work out. Because at that age again, you don't, you may have a concept of the world but it's not. It's not the concept of the world, right? Where you're trying to filter it in and make a structure. It was so interesting to me when I had so as you know, my 21 year old son is medically come very medically complex. And he's also super, super bright. And I it was so interesting when he was little how he would make sense of things in the world. Because he was so bright and he knew so much for his age, like he had so many he's always had so much knowledge, but he didn't have all the knowledge, right. So he would, he would move things around in such interesting ways. Like I remember in I think in first grade, he said, Oh, so and so is sick, she's been home. She hasn't been In school for three days, and then he said, I wonder what hospital she's in? And I was like, oh, oh, you think if you're sick, you're in the hospital because that's what his life that's what's his reality. Right. I was like, No, baby. Most people don't have to go to a hospital. Other than that, that, you know. Anyway, yeah, it's so interesting how young children process information and then layers of other issues and your own unique brain structure makes it even more interesting. So how did you do? Were you a good student? Were you over overly over over thinker and all of that kind of type of student? I'm definitely definitely an over thinker. You know, I think one of the things that I it took me a long time to place and to figure out what the OCD is that it makes you very much an all or nothing kind A person. And so in elementary and middle school and you know, the early years of high school, it meant All right, all right, A's or the world is ending. All homework is turned in, or the world is ending, I think I was in fourth grade. And I went to the nurse's office and I was just sick, I was ready to throw up. It was horrible, because I couldn't find my reading books. And I knew that I had put them in my Cubby, but couldn't find them. And I guess somebody had moved them or something from one desk to another. And so I just, I was so anxious about getting in trouble and not in you know, being the bad kid that didn't add them. And, you know, what would happen? I don't even know what would have happened in my head. Right, you know, and that was just, you didn't have to have a consequence in my head. It was just that there could be a consequence. Right. And, you know, I mean, I made myself sick enough to go to the nurse and I didn't have a fever. So finally, they sent me Back to the classroom after I had, you know, wasted enough time that wasn't reading time anymore. Hmm. And hopefully I would not get busted for not having these books. And then when I got back to the classroom, my teacher was like, oh, Stephanie, your books were on this desk. So we went ahead and put them in your cubby for you. I'm glad you're feeling better. Wow, that was it. So much of my school life was like that it was if you're going to win, first place, you participate. If you're going to do this, then then you can compete then you can do these things. So many nights, late nights up. many weeks and weeks and weeks of studying and things like that. And if there was going to be a win, or something like I've done, I would be in it. And then if at some point, I were to realize that that wasn't going to happen, then it was just out completely out of the money. Yes, absolutely. 100% and I learned I learned how to stop competing and things to avoid Like thinking shopping and be interested in some of the things to avoid that disappointment. Wow. So that must have been really impactful on what classes you chose and what extracurriculars you chose? Unknown Speaker 12:18 Oh gosh, yes. Stephanie Robertson 12:20 You know, I volunteer for the OSU Humane Society when I was 13 years old. And I was the youngest volunteer that they had ever allowed. And I loved it. I got to volunteer in the clinic with the veterinarians and do like medical things. When it was great. And I was like, I'm going to be a vet, and it's gonna be fabulous. And then my freshman year of high school, I failed algebra. And my sophomore year of high school, I had to retake algebra, and I still barely passed it. And then I heard that algebra to follow that. If you wanted to be a veterinarian that you had to take, Chem, and biology and all of these things that have to do with science and math, and I had failed it one time. So obviously, I was not good at math. And I obviously could not go into the sciences and definitely could not be a veterinarian. Wow. And it totally changed the way that I looked at school all of a sudden it was now you're gonna look at the arts and now you're gonna look at the soft sciences and part of the part of the girls can't do that part of the you can't write up part of that this is just not how your brain thinks. And I turned it off for years. And it was like a mental block just can't do that. And so, you know, I mean, in college, I think my degree is not I think it's in I know it's in political science and psychology that the audience that don't know, we went to Stephen and I both went to a liberal arts college and I was a psychology sociology major with a minor in religion. And I only took statistics I was the only math I took in college and I don't think I took any science. I took sat three times and eat on our professor finally looked at me and he was like, you need this to graduate, right? And I was like, Yeah, I do. He graded one question on my final. And he looked at me like, how did you get this answer? And I was like, I, I didn't know how to do that one. So I made it up. And this is how I did it. He was like, Yeah, I don't know how you got the right answer. But it's right. So yay. Yeah, I just I couldn't science. I couldn't math and I couldn't science for years and years and years all the way through college. And it probably didn't, probably didn't overcome that mental block towards math and finances and science and any of that until maybe five or six years ago. So that Unknown Speaker 14:45 2030s Stephanie Robertson 14:46 now you're working for a tech company, computer company, so you're aware. I mean, even if your job isn't sciency mathy techie, every one around you is science a mathy type Do people tell us how you got there? Well, you know, I, when I graduated from Austin college, I wanted to go out and change the world. And you know, I think that's one of the wonderful things about that school is it really encouraged us to encourage us to think big. And it was really hard to think big, and get paid very little. My first few years out of college and I worked in nonprofit and I did all of these things. And at one point, and I worked for a wonderful company called amantha, pet, maybe low cost spay neuter, and and preventive care for cats and dogs. And it was a really wonderful experience but it also I kind of reached a point where I'd I'd plateaued like I wasn't going to move forward without more or deeper experience or more education or just just something more i'd reached kind of as far as I could get at that stage and I didn't want to stay at that stage for another you know, three to five years getting paid, think at the time it was like $14 an hour. And I couldn't afford a new car. And I, you know, my car was breaking down, I lived as close as I could, to the area where we served, which was southeast Austin, where there are bars on most of the windows. I lived as close as I could do that without having bars on my windows. And you know, I got married, and we were looking at a family and all of a sudden, I was like, I can't, I can't pay back my student loans on this. I can't read the family on this. I can't do all of these things. So I need to make a change, whether it's go get more school or go get different experience or whatever the case is, I need to make a change. And right. My husband was very techie. Interestingly enough, he also worked for Dell at the time, but he's very computer techie engineering. He and my brother in law kept saying, Jeff, you need to come to Dell, you need to come to Dell. And so one day we were out to lunch, he is trying to convince Jeff Do you need to come to go and I just looked it up. Like why don't you don't want me back, I can learn how to sell computer will be fine. And literally like they basically had to teach me how to turn it on. And Wow, what's what's in the guts of it and you're going to have these conversations with people about their, their, you know, cloud strategy and servers and their storage and on prem or off Prem or, or hyper converged and all these things that I was like, I don't even know what that is. I can tell you the difference between a laptop and a desktop and after that you pretty much got me and Ernie, listen to music while you're smart, you'll learn and so I was five months pregnant with our second. I was paying still paying for insurance at the time because neither of our jobs provided it. And I went as a contracting agent temp to perm to Dell. And I was like, I've got five months to get myself a permanent job and I'm telling you I applied myself like I never have and I learned That I can learn science and I can learn technology and I can learn numbers and I can do it in a crunch. So, you know, it kind of just, it took that it took that like gut punch moment like, you know, you don't have a choice to fail here. You don't have that luxury of not trying and you don't have the luxury of not winning. You have to do it. Right. Right. Wow, that was a bill, that was a big change for you. And how do you how do you think your CD affected you both negatively and positively in that change? Because that's a that was obviously a major change in your career and the trajectory of your life in general. Yeah, definitely. You know, Dell is it's a really interesting place. I never thought that I would find myself in corporate America. Prior to Dell, I never worked anywhere that had more than 50 employees at my location. Even with my large companies, most of them didn't have more than 50 employees, people And going in there the first time, it was so overwhelming, I just went into building two of the seven in Round Rock, which is one of, you know, the three bases in Texas and horses global company. And so I just walked in there and I was like, Oh my god, this is just this building alone to the city. And it was so overwhelming. But they're also really, really, really inclusive. And they give you the resources that you need, they give you you know, the benefits and the time. And when you talk to your managers, they care to learn about you and what helps drive you. And so I found it to be just a really welcoming and inclusive place. And I learned how to use those weird quirks about myself as strengths. So I took Strengths Finder, for the first time while I was at amantha patent, I took it again, while I've been at Bethel and kind of looked at what are some of the consistent strengths and you know, music all kinds of self You know, understanding tests and evaluations and stuff. But one of one of my strengths is achiever. And I guess that basically, I'm really good at picking goals. And then it's followed by the other strength of strategy. So I'm really good at picking goals and problem solving how I'm going to get there. And then making a list and checking it off one at a time. And I kind of finally just let that OCD piece of me take over in that sense, where it was like, Okay, this is a place where it's actually healthy, to let my brain think the way that it thinks. Yeah. And so let yourself be goal oriented. Let yourself be task oriented. Let yourself figure out when is it right to be attacked versus a big, you know, overhead strategy and and play with it and let your brain figure out what it needs to do. And that, weirdly enough has worked. For me in sales and at Dell. What it sounds like that now what you're doing is perfectly so suited to how your brain works? Unknown Speaker 21:03 Yes. And kind of Stephanie Robertson 21:07 make sure difference of the way your brain works differently into a strength for that job. Definitely, definitely. I will say one of the challenges about a job, you know, like mine, in sales, you know, entails you're partially commission, or many people are all commissioned, right? And so if you want to make money, it's there for the making, but you're going to work for it, you know, and so, right. Dell is known you you work hard and you play hard, but you definitely work hard and you're never really 100% off. That's, that's in that that's just a millennial thing or a Gen Z thing or as we're going forward, people want more mobility and flexibility in the way that they work. And, I mean, that's one of the things that I sell. So I understand it very innately. People want to work when they want to work and Where they want to work and so whenever really off your brains always somewhere ticking in the background towards work. And I realized that that that same piece of OCD that made me really good at this job is also kind of a double edged sword. I can't be completely disconnected In fact, the only time that I have ever been completely and totally disconnected from work since I started was on the cruise this spring. Unknown Speaker 22:26 Well, I was gonna Stephanie Robertson 22:29 Yeah, I didn't I didn't get to go on the our sorties cruise I was gonna go and I was signed up and then my son was too sick and I just because you are totally cut off. I was like, I can't be cut off right now. But I will have to say I did go on a cruise a few years prior to that with my kids. And it was I was in a panic for the first 36 hours because of the lack of connectivity. And then I was like, Huh, hold on. I can Do this. Oh, let me grab this book. That's a printed book. Yeah. I can read. Or I could just send him out to nothing. And it was It is I, I think cruises are the best thing for people who cannot stop because you are kind of forced. Yes, yeah. Yes. I was so nervous about it. I love my kids here. It's the first time I've ever been not in connection with them. They're, they're four and five. Now they were three and four when we went on a cruise. And, you know, I just had to believe Okay, my parents are with them. My husband obviously is with them. Oh, I'm just going to have to have to believe that okay. And I'm going to have to believe that my accounts are okay at work and people can take care of them. And I mean, I was probably a wreck and you were a wreck for three days. I think I was a wreck for about 30 to 40 minutes. Like while we were going out of port and then all of a sudden I was like, Okay, well here's my tie, and I get mad at me out. I just finally had to let go. I was like, okay, nothing. We're out of Port now like I right, right after was my travel buddy. And she kept picking up my passport and picking up all these things like while we were trying to get on the boat into the gear, Matt, like you need to just stop and once we were finally out of Port, I was like, Alright, we're out of port. I there's no plan to get me back. There's no car to get me back, right? No, that's not me. Yeah, I'm in the middle of the golf now. So this is how it is. Unknown Speaker 24:30 Yes, exactly. Stephanie Robertson 24:33 Well, that's what it does. Do you have you ever disclosed the fact that you have OCD to an employer, whether it's Dell or any other employer? Yeah. Okay. And then they have did they do any accommodations for you? Or is it just kind of like they know that so if there's any, anything that happens, and you kind of already have that does that conversation open Um, I've talked like, I mean, they all kind of know about me, I'm largely an open book when it comes to things and I try to do a little bit of education around OCD with people particularly because it is such a no just a saying, Oh, my OCD is acting up or, you know, whatever people like to say, particularly in stressful environments, but I don't really need any, like, work accommodations for it from her heart, like you know, so and I work halfway from home, so two days a week. So yeah, you know, they I kind of let them know what's going on like that, that I have it. If I'm having like a particularly stressful time period where it's really flaring up, then I don't have a flare up is the right term, but when it's really bad, then I kind of let them know ahead. It's mostly around stress and, and they've been pretty good about like, okay, you need, you need a mental health day or you just need a break. day you just need a day off and I'll take, I'll take a day of vacation or a day of PVA we call it personal business PBA and it's, it's time that I can just go so you know, a lot of people use their PBA for for, you know, doctor's appointments and stuff like that. And, and I do with my kids, but I also use it for what I call just a mental day, like when the stress is just getting to me and I just have to go. I'll do that vacation time or PDA time, and my boss is usually pretty good about it, because that's the kind of stuff that doesn't I don't really know what's coming. And they'll just write right and he just kind of at that point need a break. Yeah. Plus my first boss at Dell, so the best thing ever, that any employer could say to somebody like me, when I was really stressing out about it, of course, I was pregnant and what's going to happen when I go on maternity leave and I just got, you know, got officially hired on and all this stuff. And he just looked at me in he, he I think I had to go to the hospital for a check or something and he just He's like, we sell computers, and they're not going anywhere. It'll be here when you get back. And I was like, wow, that kind of grace is amazing. Right, right. I mean, that's one thing I have to say about having my son who has been so medically fragile since he was born. Unknown Speaker 27:19 And Stephanie Robertson 27:20 we kind of like, have developed this understanding of if like, everyone's going to live. It's really not that big of an emergency. And, and yeah, I don't have OCD. Or I have really I'm kind of like the, I'm not. I'm the person that I think people think fits in the norm box, but I'm really not normal. But people see, like, if you just looked at me on the paper, and but I am, but you know, you I would still let myself get stressed and think I was in control of stuff that I wasn't in control of. And then through his illness, I really became I'm aware of the fact that really a lot of things that we stress out over really can wane and really aren't that important. It's like it's not really an emergency. And, you know, if everyone's alive, it's not really an emergency. Yeah. So, but it's hard to have that perspective. And our coding does not encourage that perspective. I agree. And I have a bob's like, Man, that's, that's amazing. It was it was really great. And, you know, pregnancy is one of the things that really kind of makes that OCD much more prevalent in demand hormones and everything else going on. And yeah, I didn't know that was my first that was a really interesting postpartum period. Yeah. And I just having a baby. I mean, it's, it's, you know, it's so much responsibility. So much steps that we have to do right. Or you think you have to do definitely right I, I've always been very open about my mental state with my husband. And of course my family knows because I grew up with it. But you know, I mean, after I had john our oldest, I mean, I thought I had it down like I was like, Oh yeah, I'm wheeling and dealing This is great like I had, this is the chair where we feed him and rock him at night. This is where we paid him. This is where we do everything. And it was all within like, one large bedroom and I had like a sink in the in that bathroom like it was a master upstairs in the little little townhouse, and little townhouse. And I had organized for I didn't have to go downstairs for anything. Like I had everything right there where I could just reach it and I was like, Man, I'm really knocking this out of the park until my mom and my sister like, came and got me and they're like you have to leave your house. Here I gotta I have everything. Like I have everything right here. This is how you should set it up. I am doing well. They're like Stephanie, you're not leaving your house. She's maybe you don't have it all together as you know that's what I was like Okay, wow so I really thought that I had this OCD thing down when it came to school or down when it came to work and etc and parenting is what really just knocked it absolutely out of the park through it to pieces had no idea how to pick myself back up together. And you know, I mean, my husband has has a DD diagnosed as well. And there was a few worrying things. Let me tell you. She can't pick up a thought to save his life. And I can't function with the sock in the middle of the room. Right? Oh, yeah, it's hard. It's a little wild. But we finally with kids that kind of helps us learn about each other and off and we regularly say in our home, like you just have to, you have to give me grace. Mm hmm. You have to give me the grace to deal with this. Give me the grace to understand about this and for him also. To recognize kind of triggers or points when his add is going to be an issue. And I'll try to just kind of put down things that I need in order to weather the storm. And he started to recognize the same in me like he knows when things are just going to get really like, gridlocked in my head. And this is how things have to be. And so we finally started to get to that point, you know, six and a half years in with two kids that are four and five years old. Ah yeah, and two crazy jobs, but we've we've finally started to get there and and every time that we start to feel like wow, we really have it all together then, you know, like, a curveball and you have to figure it out. But I do think that one of the neat things is about having Jeff with a DD and his diagnosis and then mine is that we are We each have kind of a unique perspective to respect and appreciate each other's strengths and to be more compassionate and understanding with each other. about each weaknesses, you also probably know more about yourselves than most people know about themselves. You know, because a lot of people have spent that time to really figure out what are my strengths? What are my weaknesses or my you know, and and to be able to know that about yourself and then to the able to communicate it with, you know, with and to someone else. I think that is that's gonna be amazing for your marriage over the year. So what my husband and I have been married for almost 25 years. Well, our anniversary like in a week. And, in fact, I think that's exactly in a week. And I know that our having Henry and all of his struggles made us have to communicate, like you can't go through things like that and not communicate and, and, and being able to be, you know, really communicative, and you know, his, you know, one of my big things is Don't, don't minimize my struggle. My emotion because of your struggle or your emotion, you know, like, like, we can have our own emotions at the same time that that's okay. And yeah, and be able to communicate that and literally say, you know, I know you're stressed, but that doesn't minimize my stress. And exactly, that's been actually hard for me because I'm a fixer, and I want to fix every buddy and everything. And so, you know, I would I, especially in the beginning of our marriage, and when Henry was really little, I would just try to make everything smooth for everyone else. Like, even if it meant me not showing emotion, but that's not good for a relationship. What do you know what you're describing that talking back and forth? I think that's what really that's what really helps. And I think that I think, is a as as I think that is a good thing about having a diagnosis of some sort is that it does provide more insight into how you, you will work in the world. And move around around the world. Definitely, we probably our first four years of marriage, we just kind of duke it out. Like, yeah, thought about those things. We didn't know how to talk about it yet. And, you know, for me with OCD, it's like I said, I'm an all or nothing person. And it's, you know, all winning or if you're going to fail, you just walk away. And so when things broke, then my answer to it was walk away from get over it. Right? Just get over it. And you don't you don't get to mire in mire yourself into depression about it or anything like that. Because then you're never going to get out of there. Yeah, yeah. And I've had to work really hard on learning how to accept that there are feelings and then I'm allowed to feel them. And, you know, that was one of the things that we had a very hard time with, because he's very fighter flight. He is he's gonna fly every time. He does not fight. he avoids it. And I'm like, you get back here and you get over it. did not go well, those arguments, right? And we actually we went to marriage counseling and we thought that they were going to talk about our marriage and like, Well, no, you need to respect each other and you need to do all this. But really actually what they did focus on was they focused on our on our diagnoses, and they're like, you guys, pretty much what they said guys know about yourself, do you know how you function with yourselves and you have to learn how you function with each other, and you have to communicate about yourself to the other person. And that's where we got the concept of, you know, you have to give me grace right now. Yeah, that's great. That's great. I think that's going to serve you well. And your children too. Do you want to add anything else to the anything else you want to tell the audience or are you anything you know, I mean, I always want to say something incredibly profound. I don't always have anything incredibly profound. But you know, I think one of the biggest things just in relation to to my own just weird mental way of Thinking with OCD and everything else is that you know, it's not what people think it is. It's not, you know, oh, I have to have all I mean, I do have to have all my clothes organized in a certain way, but that's not gonna make it or break it thing. The biggest thing about OCD that is so debilitating and so difficult is that feeling of unworthiness and that feeling that you can't trust your gut, that you don't have a gut because everything's always wrong. So you can't trust yourself and you have to create this entire other rational being. And you know, that there is a way for there is a way to function and you can, you can function well and you can even find those things that work for you about it. And talk about Yes, and that when people talk about like oh, my OCD is flaring up or Oh, you know, this is gonna drive OCD people crazy and it's at Facebook with the images were like one line is slightly off right? You know, just to remember that, that that's not what you deal with and not to let it be minimized like that. Because I feel like that just, it tells you mentally, like, really, you can't get over a simple BuzzFeed list, like get over yourself. Mm hmm. You should just be able to push on. And that's not what it is and to not let yourself into let the way that you can get minimized into that because it really is so much more. And if you can figure out if you can give it the weight and the gravity that it has, then you can figure out how to be successful over and beyond it. Awesome. That is great advice. Ds people want to come up, communicate or reach out to you. How should they find you? I am on LinkedIn. And I am Stephanie Robertson. I work at Dell. Awesome. And I will put that in the show notes. Everyone has the information. Awesome. So thank you so much for letting me be a part of this. Thank you so much. This was wonderful. I really am Appreciate it. Thank you. I had a great time chatting with you. Betsy Furler 38:06 Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to us on. If you'd like to know more about what we do and our software that helps employer support their employees with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism, please go to www dot for all abilities comm You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler. And Frank, you are LR Have a great day and we will see you soon.
On this episode, I interview Mark Palmer - writer. On the podcast, Mark talks about his life and later in life diagnosis of Autism, mental health challenges and how he works with the good and bad aspects of Autism. We discuss his career and working with Autism during COVID19 To connect with Mark, please follow him on LinkedIn (Mark Palmer), email him at wordsbymark@outlook.com and check out his professional writing services at www.markpalmerwriter.co.uk. Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:03 Hi, everybody, welcome back to for all abilities, the podcast. I'm so glad you're all here with me to learn about yet another person who is living a great life with a brain that works a little bit differently than others. And as I think I've convinced everybody who's listening to this podcast so far, we all are so valuable and our value is really in our differences. And I believe our differences are also our strengths. So today, our special guest is Mark Palmer. And he is going to tell us a little bit about himself. Welcome, Mark. Mark Palmer 0:43 Thank you. Thanks. It's lovely to be here. Thanks. Betsy Furler 0:45 Yes, I am so glad you're here. So as we're recording this, we are all pretty much on some sort of lockdown for COVID-19. And so we've we've all had our work life sweet. step a little bit, but I'm really happy you were able to join me. And I would love for you just to introduce yourself first and then we'll, we'll hear more about your life. Mark Palmer 1:10 Okay, so my name is Mark Palmer and I live in Manchester in England, which is probably best known puts football teams and it's raining, although actually it's quite sunny at the moment. I'm 50 years old and I'm autistic. I was only diagnosed as autistic. Very few years ago, three or four years ago, I've always struggled with my mental health. I also have depression and anxiety. I worked for 30 years in a public sector administration role. I have five children and I remarried six months ago a couple of days ago to my lovely wife, Sue, who is a special needs teaching assistant by trade, which means I basically married somebody professionally trained to deal with me. Betsy Furler 1:57 That's my way to go. That is perfect. And so tell us a little bit about what you were like as a child. So I guess you were not diagnosed as a child. And so tell us a little bit about what you were like as a little boy. Mark Palmer 2:13 Okay, well, I like to say I'm so old that as a little boy, autism hadn't really been invented yet. But I was certainly different. I certainly wasn't diagnosed. I didn't even remember hearing the word autism. I had a lot of trouble growing up at school. Partly and it all makes much more sense in retrospect. Now, now I'm autistic. We moved around a lot. My dad kept changing his job. So when you're struggling to make friends anyway, and then every year or two, you move to a new school, it gets very, very difficult. So I found it very, very hard to make friends. I was definitely the weird, geeky kid in the class. I was always good at the academics, but I really struggled socially. And I was bullied an awful lot which hurt me and damaged me quite a bit. school I went to I ended up getting bullied right through up to secondary school. So, or high school, I guess you'd call it so, yeah, my parents were great. They were lovely, very supportive. couldn't have asked for better parents. But my childhood was very, very difficult. They didn't understand how I was. The way I was that they struggled with me at times. They talked about boarding school because I just couldn't cope at school. I was being naughty. I was being difficult. And it was really because I didn't understand what was going on around me and those around me didn't understand me. Betsy Furler 3:34 Did you? They did well academically. Did you make good grades or you just you you knew you're you're a smart person. Clearly, but did you make good grades? Or did you struggle with that as well? Mark Palmer 3:48 No, I always did very well in the written work, particularly maths and science. That was always my thing, right? I struggled a bit with languages but maths and science. I was always right there at the top. Betsy Furler 4:00 That's that's a typical profile I think of people who are autistic. Mark Palmer 4:05 Yes. Betsy Furler 4:06 Did you What difference Do you think it would have made had you had a diagnosis as a child Mark Palmer 4:12 I'd like to think they taught me in a different way accepted that I needed different accommodations and so on. Not constantly held it against me that I I really struggled socially and to get on with the other children. And it's a good question i To be honest, I've not really thought about that because what's done is done. But I see now my wife is working with autistic children that she teaches and it is just a world away from what I had where I was just in the class and you just got on with it and it you went along with it all that was it like it Olympics so it's um, it wouldn't make a huge difference have I haven't been recognized that accommodated but that just didn't happen then. Betsy Furler 4:52 What about for your own mental health? Do you think that had you known younger, that you had autism with that have changed the way you your self perception? Mark Palmer 5:04 Absolutely, absolutely. And because I always knew I was different, and I couldn't understand why am I spent years and years, thinking it was obviously something I was doing and choosing to do, but I just couldn't seem to stop it. And we'll come obviously forward later. But when I first the first time I spoke to professional who says yes, I think you're autistic. I cried. Unknown Speaker 5:25 Because it was a relief Mark Palmer 5:26 from it. It's such a relief. Betsy Furler 5:29 Yeah, that's what I've heard from other people too. So let's go on with school. So you graduated and then went on to university? Yes. Was that an improvement? Or how did how did University go for you? Mark Palmer 5:44 Again, university was was was tough at times. Because again, I really get along with people and the university. I went to you all lived sort of on campus, the first year in student accommodation. And then you had to Get into groups to rent a house together for the second year and they've off campus and I approached the people I'd be hanging out with all year who I thought were my friends and was basically told to get lost we don't want to live with you. And so they were never really my friends at all, they just kind of let me tag along because I lived on the same corredor so I still found making friends on the social side extremely difficult and looking back that the the upshot of that is is that I didn't really make the most of those University College days where you're supposed to have a you know, really good time and grow up and find yourself right all the time feeling miserable. Betsy Furler 6:37 That's an that's an interesting point about the housing because I think that's something that people take for granted that you're just going to self organize yourself into a group of friends to live in a house with and, and I'm sure people struggle with that all the time. And it has to take a huge hit on your self esteem. Mark Palmer 7:02 It did, I ended up putting a notice out from an OT school saying, Look, I'm desperately looking for some people to live with, and coming to basically accept the first offer I got, which was from a group of other misfits To put it bluntly, really, there were nice guys. Right? But they weren't exactly sort of, you know, life and soul of the party times we were all a bit strange different in our own ways. And so it was a slightly bizarre year. But yeah, I found people in the end, but it was a very, very uncomfortable, unpleasant experience. And I felt very much rejected and I wanted for a long period. Betsy Furler 7:37 Yeah, yeah, that I think that's something for people to keep in mind, especially if there are parents listening who have kids who will be going off to college or university. So what did you major in? Mark Palmer 7:49 I studied mass. Betsy Furler 7:51 Okay, so you probably, you probably had some other people who thought the same way you did in your math classes. Mark Palmer 8:00 I suspect I did, but that the way the university worked was you didn't really associate a great deal with the other people in your classes because you'd see them in lectures and then all go your separate ways it was much more significant. When you said that was the people you spent time with, I certainly wasn't gonna start making friends with strangers because I've never been able to do that. But when you're sharing a kitchen and a common room and so on with another seven or eight people, Unknown Speaker 8:25 by inevitably Mark Palmer 8:26 end up getting to know them a bit, but they will from different courses. I'm sure there were other people in the group that were autistic looking back and would have been a bit different than I would have got along with brilliantly Had I known them. But remember people on the course and they just didn't meet the right people, I guess. Betsy Furler 8:43 There was a large university. Mark Palmer 8:46 It was it was known for maths and so the maths class was very, very big. I studied some other things as well. One of the attractions of the course was you only had to do maths half the time. So slightly ironically, looking back I spent a lot of money I'm studying psychology. Unknown Speaker 9:02 Oh, and you enjoy that. Mark Palmer 9:04 I enjoyed that very much. Yes. But to me at that time, I didn't relate it to anything to do with myself. Betsy Furler 9:10 Right, right. I, I was a psychology, sociology double major and the head of my minors and religion. And I was fascinated by all of that as well. Not so much good at math. I mean, I, I thought I wasn't good at math. Now, I've discovered I actually probably was good at math. But anyway, you know, we're all different. We all have our strengths, right? Mark Palmer 9:33 Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Betsy Furler 9:36 So did you go on to graduate school or what did you do after university or go into the workplace? Mark Palmer 9:41 Yes, I left University and went straight into the workplace. I went to university in a town called Coventry, which is in the Midlands in England, and then I moved to London to start work for the government. And just sort of in my final term at university, I met the lady who went on to the mind My first wife and the mother of my children. So she also moved down to London to be a teacher. So we moved down together and got married after a year in London. Betsy Furler 10:10 And are you in the same love? Probably not exactly the same job. But have you had to apply for jobs since that first job? Or did you go into government work and then continue on with that? Mark Palmer 10:22 I've continued in government work for 30 years, but I've applied to apply repeatedly for internal posts to move to different areas to get promotions and so on. Yes. Betsy Furler 10:32 Okay. So tell us about how that processes are you comfortable with interviews, meaner? You're doing an amazing job today and even when we first got on the phone, but I wonder when you were younger? How did you cope with the interview job? Yeah, job interview job application process. Mark Palmer 10:51 It was a nightmare. At some of the jobs I went for, were like sort of accelerated promotion things where you would Do some written tests. Now the written tests would be things like what's the next in this sequence and number problems and things like that. I do those things for fun, right? Yeah. So I'd always get 90% of those. And then then I'd have an interview. And I'd be i'd fail. Because I've barely passed an interview in my life as far as I can remember, but it's an absolute disaster. putting me in a room and telling me to talk about myself with three complete strangers is just about my worst nightmare. Right? You have always been hugely, hugely difficult. And it's something I'm now trying to sort of get changed and make a better pass about. But getting on has been horrible. I've applied for just about every development scheme that my employer runs, and there are lots of them. And I've failed every one Usually, the interview my my kind of greatest achievement in that was I went to one that had a full two days of selection tests, passed all of those and still got rejected by the 45 minute interview at the end. Unknown Speaker 11:54 Wow. Betsy Furler 11:57 Yeah, I think that our interview process in particular Killer has, there's a lot of room for change and growth in that in. You know, just because somebody has a really good interview doesn't mean they're going to be good at the job. And vice Mark Palmer 12:13 versa. Yes, and I am. It's a point I keep making because even as recently as a couple of years ago, I went to an interview I was diagnosed by then I said, I'm autistic, I need reasonable adjustments. I'm awful at interviews. And the reasonable adjustments I got when I queried it afterwards was well, we asked you if you're okay at the beginning. Unknown Speaker 12:31 That was it. Wow. Betsy Furler 12:35 Now do you on your job. Tell us about your job and how you What do you think you do different on the job that you that a neurotypical person might not do? Mark Palmer 12:48 The main thing I think I do is I see things from different angles. I have lots of different ideas, many of which like a lot of us overcome that have to be dropped immediately because every day in us, but I do seem to find solutions to problems that don't occur to other people. A lot of my work has to do with legal issues. I'm not a lawyer, but we're in the business of maintaining laws making new laws and things like that. And there are lots of sort of minute shy in different ways of doing things. And several times in my career, I found something hidden in the small print, as it were, that let us do something a different way that sold quite a big problem that nobody else had spotted. I just see two seem to see things that many other people don't see. But equally, I miss things that are completely obvious to other people. So it's a blessing and a curse, as these things are double sided. But yes, my main asset at work is my creativity and problem solving. Betsy Furler 13:44 And I think that's something that a lot of people don't understand about autism is so many people who are autistic, are very, very creative in either their thought process or their ability to do art or painting. put things together in a very unusual but extremely pleasing way. And I think that is something that employers often miss that creativity. Mark Palmer 14:13 Absolutely. And how do you get that across in an interview? Betsy Furler 14:17 Exactly, Mark Palmer 14:18 you can't. So my strongest point I can't put across in an interview, but it exposes my weakest ones immediately. Because the problems, the major problem I have at work is anything interpersonal. And so meetings have always been an absolute nightmare for me. And I know now it's become like a standing joke. I'm in a very, very supportive team that embraces differences now and so on embraces individuality. And it's become just kind of a running joke that don't invite me to a meeting because I hate them. And I'd like to say to people, I've been here 30 years, I've been to three years, four meetings, Betsy Furler 14:49 right? I think all of us have, but some of us like people like me who I'm like a 97 on the scale of extraversion from zero to 100 right? Super extroverted. So I'm happy to, like just chat with anybody about anything, you know, I'm one of those people. And, you know, some of us, you know, think that meetings are useless, but we love to chat. So we we go anyway. So, but what a waste of time to, especially for someone who like you doesn't get anything out of the meeting, you know, you're, you're not, it's not helpful to you at all. So I'm glad you're on a team that's really supportive. I think that the more that employers can get teams of people together, who work all together who all think differently and who all value and respect those differences, you know, the better our world will be and I love it when I hear about someone who has a team who is working on a team that at least you feel like you have the respected the other people Mark Palmer 15:56 are do it's a fabulous team at the moment I joined it quite badly. I think just yet they can get another big promotion, and finally got one. And they just did. It's the teenagers that lead the team are on a job share and they couldn't be more embracing of diversity. And that's all I've ever wanted. I don't claim to be any better than anybody else. I'm just different. Betsy Furler 16:18 Right? Right. Exactly. And did they have what has your employer done? As far as accommodations or having allowing you to disclose your disability? Do they have any special procedures for that? Or is it kind of on a team by Team basis and, and your managers have to be happened to be exceptional? Mark Palmer 16:39 My manager just happened to be exceptional it is. A lot of it is down to the managers. There are some things that it's just not possible to have, but I would really like a need and my biggest issue is lots of autistic people are hypersensitive in different ways. I'm hypersensitive to noise, but not just any noise. The noise that really gets to me is locked in Lots of voices all at once. And all our offices are big open spaces. Betsy Furler 17:06 Oh, yeah. So that's hard. Mark Palmer 17:08 It's very hard and there's not a lot they can do because there isn't any word quiet you can sit. I mean work got me an occupational health assessment for my autism. That's how I got my diagnosis. And and that says, you know, sitting in a quiet spot, well, there just isn't a quiet spot. It doesn't exist. Mm hmm. Betsy Furler 17:26 Let's go. Let's go back to your diagnosis because I kind of skipped over that. So yeah, um, you said your that was done through work. Mark Palmer 17:35 It was done through work it it was led up to for a number of years, some some years ago. I met my mother for lunch one day and she came brandishing a sheaf of papers to give to me and others sometimes do and said, this is about something called Asperger's syndrome. Have you heard of it? I think this might be you. And I wasn't interested because at that time, it was just an unhelpful label. And I didn't want another name for why I was strange and so on, and it would have got me nowhere. Then some years later, I'd become divorced from my first wife, I've met Sue, who's now my wonderful new wife, who is a specialist in in autistic children. And she pointed out to me, she believed I was autistic. And that I should try and address that. And again, it was kind of mulling over in my head because it was quite a big step. Then, my work brought in a new reporting system for assessing their staff every year, which meant that every year they had to put 10% of the staff and that sort of bottom category needs improvement, you've got the new better, and they had to put 10% of stuff in that even if everybody was brilliant. And what that meant was the people who were a bit different and did things a bit strangely, and maybe said that this meeting is pointless and so on, were the easy targets to be put in that bottom bracket. And after two years of being in that bottom bracket and the threat of a third it would have been getting into serious proceedings about losing my job even though my work was Excellent. Nobody ever disputed that my work was excellent. So I pursued with it with again, a supportive boss and occupational health diagnosis. And it was through work. I've ended up seeing a specialist and getting my autism diagnosis is getting a formal diagnosis in the UK without paying a fortune or waiting literally years. It's almost impossible. Betsy Furler 19:21 Yes, yes, same here. Because if you can't pay out of pocket here, and you don't have excellent insurance, and I'm not even sure as an adult insurance would cover the diagnosis here in the US. So here in the US, the best thing to do is to go through our kind of workforce system as well. Yeah. So when your wife said that she thought you may have autism. How did that go? I can imagine she kind of was concerned about what to say and how to say that. Mark Palmer 19:57 Well, don't read it because it's easy. I think I was already Coming around that idea and we we've had chats about it for a long time we met online. And we talked for an awful long time online and then on my phone before we ever met in person, and we covered all these subjects, I was still living with my ex wife and my children for the benefit of the children. And I take the dogs out for long walks and speak to my then girlfriend. And we'd cover up hours and hours of talking about all these different subjects. And I explained to I came out very early and said, Look, I'm different. I have all these weird things I do. I'm not like other people. I just want you to know what I am, in case you're not interested. And she didn't put her off at all. She actually liked it for some reason. So we had had this conversation. It wasn't it wasn't a complete out of the blue. I think you're autistic. It had been percolating in my head anyway. And she kind of just gave me enough nudges to push me over the age but it was scary. But I say at the same time on the first phone call I had when especially said yes, it sounds like you're autistic. I went outside and I probably Because she relief and I said to my boss, it doesn't mean I'm not going to be a pain in the backside anymore. It just means that we understand why I'm a pain in the back. Betsy Furler 21:09 Exactly. And you know what we all we all have, you know, all of our it is and crises and our quirks some of us fit into that some of us can adapt ourselves into that imaginary normal box better than others. But none of us are really normal. So, Mark Palmer 21:29 no, mobile is greatly overrated. But one thing I do know from my experience and from speaking to other autistic people, autistic people spend an awful lot of our lives what we call masking. Yeah, so pretending to be something that we're not pretending to be neurotypical as opposed to neuro diverse, which covers autism and a number of other conditions. Right. And that's exhausting. When you have to effectively process and make a conscious decision about how to react to everything how to how to behave in the way that many other people seem Just do completely unconsciously and take for granted that is absolutely exhausting, Betsy Furler 22:04 exhausting and not good for your mental health. Mark Palmer 22:07 Exactly. So as I said, I have depression and anxiety. And again, that's quite common in autistic people to have other mental health conditions, probably as a result of having to try and be somebody that you're not for your whole life. Betsy Furler 22:19 Right, right. And trying to fit into a world where everything is difficult. Mark Palmer 22:24 Exactly. Yeah. Betsy Furler 22:26 Well, awesome. Well, is there anything else you want to tell us about yourself or work or your family or anything? Mark Palmer 22:35 Well, it Yeah, I'm trying now to to move on and to help other people. I mentioned that I've always found it difficult to speak to new people. Slightly bizarrely, you can remove 100 people I've never met I would absolutely hate going around speaking to them individually. But if you put me in a platform in front of them and tell me to give them presentation, I will absolutely love it. I love public speaking And so on. It's like a different persona of me. And I absolutely adore it. It feels in many ways what I was born to do. So I'm trying to do speaking about autism and neurodiversity, and different work events. And I'd love to do more with that as I if I could. And I'm also starting a new career at the moment alongside my current job writing about autism and about mental health. And I'm trying to build a career out of that writing about my experiences, about how to speak to autistic people, how to get along with them about the benefits autistic people can bring to the workplace and about other mental health issues. So that's what I'm doing now. And that's what I'd like to do more and more of in the future. Betsy Furler 23:37 That's fantastic. And if people want to get in touch with you, how should they do that? Mark Palmer 23:42 Right, well, I have a website, which is www.markpalmerwriter.co.uk that's Parmar pa l m er like Arnold Palmer. That's Mark Palmer writer.co.uk or you can email me at Wordsbymark@outlook.com, I'd love to hear from anybody who's interested, I'd love to talk to autistic people to mental health, people about mental health, you said I was fine talking to you, when you start talking about mental health and autism, I'll talk all day. I'm really passionate about it. So that's why I'm so comfortable with this because I know I have plenty to say. And I'm confident in what I say. So I'd love to hear from anybody. And as I say, I'm trying to get established as a freelance writer. So if there's anything I can do for anybody, if anybody has anything they'd like me to write for them. I'd really love to hear from you. That would be terrific. Betsy Furler 24:33 What type of writing jobs are you the most comfortable with? Did you I think you had said technical writing? Mark Palmer 24:40 Well, what I'm writing at the moment is his articles about different aspects of autism about different aspects of mental health. Earlier today, I wrote a short article for somebody about managing your mental health in the midst of this pandemic. So any aspect really, but it's very much from my experience of living with these things for 50 years. I'm Not a doctor, I'm not a scientific expert, but I describe my angle as autism from the inside. So I can tell you what it's like I can tell you how autistic people can help you and I can tell you how you can help them because very often it's very small adjustments could even just be turning the light off in a meeting room makes their life so much easier. Betsy Furler 25:20 Right, right. And also the awareness that somebody might need something like that. Mark Palmer 25:27 Exactly. It's all about education. I think autistic people are very misunderstood and and looked down on and people see the bad and not the good. And actually, if you can just find somebody at like corner or turn the lights off in the room for them. They'll probably come up with dozens of really, really good ideas that will help your company help your business if you just give them that chance. Don't judge them on a terrible interview. Give them an environment that suits their needs and it will they will more than repay their worth. Betsy Furler 25:53 Absolutely. Well. You have been a delight to interview today. I am so glad you stepped up I'm on LinkedIn, I'm actually I'm not sure if you stepped up or I kind of was like, hey, do you want to do this interview, but you accepted immediately. And I am so grateful you've been on the show. And I think that you your work, and your experiences are going to help so many people and also give families who have children who have been diagnosed on the autism spectrum, hope that their kids can go on and lead amazing lives. Mark Palmer 26:32 I certainly can. And there is lots of states that the world is a much better place. Scrub autistic now than it used to be, but there's still an awful long way to go. And there is definitely hope if you have an autistic child, they can do whatever they want to be, and they can use their amazing superpowers to really make the difference and change the world. Betsy Furler 26:51 Absolutely. Well, thank you, Mark. And thank you for all abilities audience for tuning in today. Please subscribe vibe review, re rank rate, my podcast and on whatever podcast platform you're listening to. And if you want more information about Pharrell abilities, go to my website at www dot for all abilities.com and you can always follow me Betsy Furler on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler. It's su r le AR on Instagram. I'm for all abilities and Twitter, both Betsy Furler and for all abilities. So it was great having Mark today and thank you everyone else for tuning in.
On this episode, I interview Stacia Momburg - a transformational coach and writer. On the podcast, Stacia talks about her recent diagnosis of ADHD and how she works with the good and bad aspects of ADHD. We discuss her career and working from home with COVID 19 and ADHD. To connect with Stacia, please follow her on LinkedIn (Stacia Momburg) and check out her coaching services with special rates for COVID19 at https://planetnd.market/ Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:17 Hi everybody. Thank you so much for tuning into the for all abilities the podcast today. Again we are talking to somebody who is going to talk about neuro diversity and our strengths and our differences and how we all have our brains are so important and valuable in this world and how we can use our unique brain to live our best life. So today I have Stacia Momburg as our special guest and she is going to correct me if I misspelled or mispronounced her name and tell us all about herself. So hi, how are you today? Stacia Momburg 1:11 By my psychologist Betsy Furler 1:15 start over because I missed a hole, though, too. Hi, how are you today? Okay. Stacia Momburg 1:23 Hey, Betsy. Thank you. Betsy Furler 1:25 Hi, how are you today? Stacia Momburg 1:26 Hi, Betsy. Good to be here. Thank you for having me. My name is stasia mom Berg. I am a transformational coach, a communicator by trade, a writer, and a neurodiversity advocate. I was diagnosed with ADHD just last year by my psychologist during a very interesting conversation. And I live in California with my son, my dog, my two cats and a ball python named trouser Unknown Speaker 2:00 Wow. See, Betsy Furler 2:04 as we record this, we're in the middle of the Coronavirus COVID-19 crisis. So I guess we're you're probably sheltered more than sheltered in place more than we are. I'm in Houston, Texas, and we are currently able to move around the city but almost everything's closed and we're probably going to shelter in place soon. So, anyway, kind of a crazy time. But thank you so much for being willing to be on my podcast today. Stacia Momburg 2:33 And I'm absolutely thrilled. Thank you. Betsy Furler 2:35 Yeah, so I can't wait to hear more about what you what you're about your work. But first, tell us what you were like when you were a little Stacia Momburg 2:42 girl. When I was a little girl, I had bouts of anxiety. I didn't know it at the time. I remember being fearless doing a lot of things. I like to go fast on bicycles. And I like to jump bicycles off of curbs and ride big wheels down the street as fast as I could. And I think at that time not knowing that I had it anything for a dopamine uptake, if you will. So I was pretty fearless when it came to doing stuff. And in school. Up until about sixth grade, I was getting, you know, close to straight A's. I think for me, school was kind of a respite from my home life only because we had a lot of people in my house. My grandmother died when she was 50. And so my mom took on raising her two younger, much younger siblings, and they lived with us for quite some time. So school was a way to kind of be with friends. You know, being able to hyper focus on the subjects that I loved. I was thinking about this conversation this morning, having this conversation with you and I remember a project in third grade where we use sunflower seeds, Google eyes and a stick to make an owl on a board like glue and owl to a board and I swear to God, it was the best thing ever. Because I just got to sit there and meticulously glue sunflower seeds to a board to make owl feathers. Unknown Speaker 4:09 Wow. Stacia Momburg 4:10 Yeah. The fact that I have that memory, right. So up until about sixth grade. And then I think, you know, kids hormones start kicking in things change. There's a lot of social interaction that changes and we moved a couple of times in my preteens early teens. So I wasn't able to keep and make friends for a couple years. And I learned how to find very close friends that I could be with because it was easier. So I did that I'm an introvert as well. So it was just easier to have very close friends that I could have deep connections with as opposed to cords of friends. And in high school, I just stuck to myself and got C's and B's because nothing was interesting anymore. So I think that's kind of a reflection of what was going on. I had some stuff going on in my home life that was difficult, took attention away. So yeah, it was just a lot going on. But you know, learn how to survive, learned how to cope and found my own mechanisms to keep myself going, I guess. Betsy Furler 5:17 What about after school? Did you go on to college? Or did you go into the workplace? What did you do after high school? Stacia Momburg 5:24 After high school I floated around. My mom was pretty strict, in terms of like, having high expectations of what not to do socially. So straight out of high school, I went to a junior college that was near the coast, away from where I lived, and I partied and I found alcohol, which, for some of us, neuro divergence, it's a great self medicator. When that internal hyper activity gets going, it helps settle that down a bit. It's not the healthy way but I didn't know that at the time and I you know, I partied for a little bit and grew out of that I wasn't a huge party or after like 20 I think, you know, just a couple years. And when I went into the workforce was a tax preparer office manager bank teller, didn't know if I wanted to go to college finally decided to get into junior college and hit the ground running and it was in college that I was able to determine what I wanted to study. And so I got really good grades in college. I wound up studying history, I didn't focus on any specific time. I just loved learning about all the connections and I had some really great teachers moved to South Carolina to finish my undergrad finished that at 27. went back into the workforce. I've never used history and launched my career shortly after college. Betsy Furler 6:51 It sounds like you're a person who does really well when you can hyper focus. Stacia Momburg 6:56 I love hyper focus. It's my favorite Betsy Furler 6:59 thing. That's your superpower. Stacia Momburg 7:01 It is. It absolutely is. Yeah. I mean, when you're a history major and you're doing research, that's all you do. Right? Right. And when you're doing all of that research and you're hyper focused and interested in that subject, you're going to test well on that subject. I can't guarantee that I always tested well in other subjects that I did. You know, I did my best. So yeah, I was able to choose what was interesting, you know, Mm hmm. Betsy Furler 7:23 Yeah. And the little the fact about the self medicating with alcohol is really interesting. And I think a common a common issue, especially for kids when they go off to college. And then and alcohol is so available, and I'm assuming it still is today. Like it was back when I was in college. Very available and very inexpensive. And at that time, where it's so you know, you're kind of trying to find yourself and trying to figure out how you can, you know, survive without your parents. I think that is something that that a lot of a lot of people kind of start leaning on instead of maybe, you know, regular medication or other coping strategies. Stacia Momburg 8:11 Well, yeah, and when you're undiagnosed, and you're doing that, you're also dealing at that time. And I think, with ADHD as well, sometimes relationships can be like creating relationships can be awkward, because we don't have the same kind of Governor's on what's appropriate and what's not. And so, alcohol is kind of a social lubricant as well. And if someone else is drinking with you, a lot of excuse me, a lot of behaviors are more allowable. So it's a way to kind of inject yourself in a safe space, you know, in a safe way, you kind of learn that and you go, Okay, well, I'll just have a couple drinks and I'll relax and then they'll relax and it'll be fine. So you know, but then you learn other coping mechanisms as well. So Betsy Furler 8:57 awesome. So when you so after you grow from college and you started working, what what was your career? What did you start doing? Stacia Momburg 9:05 Like when I went when I finished college, I went back to the tax preparation person that I knew. And I was working briefly with her. And then I got a couple of other jobs, but I fell backwards kind of into a an associate member Association for cancer doctors. And I was hired as an office assistant. And my boss saw a lot of potential because one of the things we're really good at when we are able to hyper focus is when we're given a task, we complete the task immediately, very quickly, very efficiently. Yeah. And so she hired me on very, very quickly and I became a communications assistant. And I stayed with that organization for four years, and wound up doing some things really well. And they still use some of those things today, which I'm really proud of. But you know, at 20 Seven I was organizing newsrooms for 300 national and international reporters when in a time of fax machines and telephones, email was just coming online. So that was that was fun too. But I was also creating, you know, spreadsheets with how we were going to do press conferences based on when plenary sessions were and you know, all these cool things and pulling together an art installation as my final kind of farewell gift to them and they've done the art installation ever since. And now they make a calendar out of it every year and it was based on patient art. So it was I was able to learn and do a lot of things as this organization grew its membership. And then I got pregnant and I moved home to California, and wound up getting a job at the local university. I eventually became the crisis and issues manager for all crisis and issues on campus, again, able to hyper focus. You know, I think too with ADHD, our personalities are kind of unaffected by extremes. We're not really well for me anyways, my, my particular brain doesn't react one way or another to an extreme situation. It's like, Oh, it's an extreme situation, how do we fix it like problem solving? Right? Betsy Furler 11:25 Right. Right. Stacia Momburg 11:27 So I became the campus crisis and issues manager dealing with all manner of situations on campus suicides, births, students, birthing babies and bathrooms. People, you know, a place trying to kill each other with machetes. Yeah, it was it there were some wild times in their infrastructure failure, email threats, you name it, but it was it was like my thing. You know, it was my go to and, and I was good at it. And it wasn't. I always said it wasn't difficult for me. It was something I knew how to do. It was never Uh oh, that's such a big job. It's like No, not really. Right? Betsy Furler 12:05 Did you have trouble getting? Or? And do you have trouble getting places on time and anything like that? Are you uh, are you a punctual person? Stacia Momburg 12:14 You know, it's funny I, I laugh about this. My mom was diagnosed with ADHD when she was 71. And my mom is notorious for being late for everything like up to an hour and a half late. I was like crazy. And so it kind of it was always something that was hard for me to watch. So I try to be on time and for things that I deem I deem important. I like job interviews, or this podcast, for example, I'll be watching the clock and be early to something but if it's a mundane thing, like work, I'm usually you know, anywhere from three to 10 minutes late. Every day. I mean, every day, my boss like you have to show up on time and I'm like, yeah, I'm only three to 10 minutes late. It's hard to deal. I work through lunch, come on, Betsy Furler 12:56 you know, so that's my idea on time. I'm I'm a, I'm a neuro typical person, like, like, pretty, like so much that sometimes it's a problem. But I'm a, like, get there by the skin of my teeth kind of on, you know, like it's, I mean, I consider anything between at the moment I'm supposed to be there. Seven minutes late to be on time. Stacia Momburg 13:23 But same Betsy Furler 13:26 but my husband has ADHD, and he is a 15 to 20 minutes early, or he's late, like he thinks he's late if he's not 15 to 20 minutes early, and I find it so interesting because a lot of especially employers will, one of the accommodations will always be something about getting to meetings on time and it's like, so many people with ADHD don't need that. Right. Like to stop wasting so much time being everyplace early. My theory about it. But I'm like, if I bet if I have to be at the airport for a flight? Yeah, not a gift. I mean, I want to be there a good at least hour and a half before the flight. Right? So it's a bit like super important to me, then I will like, be early, but it's really interesting to me. I love hearing different people because kind of one of my things is that everyone's brain works differently. And just because you have a diagnosis of ADHD doesn't mean you need the hundred and 50 accommodations that someone has deemed work for people with ADHD. Stacia Momburg 14:35 It's, it's so funny because I it's so true. I just read a study that was published in 2017. About a group of doctors I believe it was out of Philadelphia. I just wrote about it in my blog on Planet neurodivergent. marketplace. It's where I have a regular blog posting once a month to talk about my diagnosis. But I just read this study. Where these doctors got together 117 people who were diagnosed with ADHD and they put them up against 134, neurotypical people, and one of the things they found, or they not that they found, but they verified is that every person with ADHD has a very different brain. So when you have a diagnosis, it's a myriad of symptoms that will present differently in each individual person, right. So, in this study as well, what they found based on some of the testing that they did, were potentially three new subgroups. And you can read more about it a little bit in my blog, but these subgroups just verified that there was even more difficulty understanding and learning about the ADHD diagnosis and they confirmed on MRI that no part of the brain lit up the same It all lit up differently. Yeah, it's fascinating. So is like I was just diagnosed last August and I've been having, I've been having difficulty getting a formal diagnosis. And then to learn that just a few years ago, we're still trying to figure out this diagnosis is just, it's fascinating to me. And it's like, this is why I want to advocate for not so much for accommodation, but just better understanding of different thinking, you know, Betsy Furler 16:30 well, and I think it's even compounded for women, because men can frequently women with ADHD, dyslexia, autism, everything that's considered neuro diversity. And women tend to be able to socially kind of fit in a little bit better than men with the same condition, which is good in some ways, but then it really leads to a problem with diagnosis. Exactly. Oh, As girls and then also as adults, and I've seen that so many times, both in my career I was a I'm a speech pathologist by training, and so many times in my career and then as well, as I've started doing this podcast and everything else, I really see that as an issue and diagnosis. Stacia Momburg 17:19 Now I hundred percent agree, I have to wonder, you know, as little girls, we're taught to be compliant and empathetic and you know, go with the flow and don't speak up. I mean, not recently, but certainly for my generation. I'm, you know, I'm in right at the tail. Yeah, Generation X. We're the product of the baby boomers. So we're very, you know, is very patriarchal society, and we're still very patriarchal, but we're trying to move into more equity right, slowly but surely. But I have to wonder if learning those social skills as a result, kind of, you know, as kids as girls with ADHD, you hyper focus and if you're empathic, On top of that, and you're taught to have empathy, you learn to read people to fit in. Yeah, I think without even knowing it, you know what I mean? Because I've always considered myself a chameleon. I can fit in with any group at any time. Because I read, I read the room, and I don't like the room, I have a drink, I stay an hour and I leave. Betsy Furler 18:20 Well, and that's a good point that as because as girls as, especially as Gen X girls, I would say, I know, a lot of what made me a very successful child and college student, which was doing what other people wanted me to do. being pretty quiet for the most part, although I'm an extreme extrovert and always have been, but you know, well behaved. You know, I spoke when I was spoken to like all of those things like the dream, little girl, right? Yep. Yep. Well, then as a business owner, I've completely how too and as a really, as a software startup founder, it's even gone further. why I've really had to unlearn a lot of that. Mm hmm. That I was, you know, really good at doing as a child like it does. It hasn't necessarily served me as an adult as a leader. But it certainly made me a very easy child to have in a classroom. And, and I think girls with ADHD frequently can, like you were saying, can kind of start picking up all on all of that. And in you know, maybe not be disruptive, like the boys with ADHD are like swinging from the chandelier. There's obviously something different about they, how they interact. And so I think that I think it really is a diagnostic issue. So speaking of that, so how did you ended up pursuing a diagnosis Stacia Momburg 19:58 and I was actually Okay, so it's a little bit I'm gonna go around my ass to get to my elbow, but there's a reason. So, I was laid off in 2016 when a donor for a grant program I was working for pulled three quarters of a million dollars. So the the institute couldn't afford to keep me anymore. And I searched hard for a job for six months, and I didn't land anything. I like I did not land anything. And so I had to go to work at a restaurant to keep my family afloat. And I was I did an eBay business which I started myself and I made pretty successful in order you know, I, I did well, well enough to have cash. Because I was able to hyper focus on it right and do it really well. And so I did that and I would look for jobs intermittently because I'd be so good. busy with my eBay business and then I'd be working at the restaurant, I was exhausted. And then I'd only have two days off a week and I was still working eBay. And so I finally got a job working as a secretary for our high school principal here where I live, and it was regular hours regular pay, you know, I had health insurance at the restaurant is actually better than the school but I have health insurance in retirement. And I started applying for jobs again. And so it was, you know, over the course of trying to figure out, like, how to keep the family afloat. I barely have enough money and applying for jobs that I was like, You know what, I am just so done, and I was at rock bottom. I was literally at rock bottom was like, This is ridiculous. I work at a place that I'm overqualified. I'm making no money. I barely have enough money to get by I just hit Like, I hit low. And I was so depressed for so long that I jumped back into therapy. And I went to my therapist who does acceptance and Commitment Therapy, which is Stephen Hayes's therapy, which I don't know if you're familiar, but it's about mindfulness and reframing how we look at ideas and thoughts as just ideas and thoughts. And kind of taking control of our mind that because our mind can be a really dangerous place if left, you know, unchecked, so to speak. It's it's a fabulous therapy. So I went back to see my therapist and I was talking with her and you know, crying and I'm a mess and she goes, Okay, everything's really painful right now as I'm I was also dealing with the loss of my son, which hasn't happened yet because he's getting ready to go off to college, but being at age, being an ADHD, I'm like, I'm gonna have empty nest right now a year and a half. gotta prepare for this shit. ever thinking? Yeah, way overthinking. So I'm like, Okay, let's rein this in. So she looks at me and she goes, Okay, then let's just pretend that we're pulling all of that out. And I'm like, okay, so visualize pulling it up, and we pull it out into the center of the room, right? we visualize this and she's like, what do you see them? Like, it's just this black wall of just disgusting, gross, slimy, gross mess. And she thought, okay, let's identify what it is. So we did the whole deal. And we identified what it was and what the feelings were. And she says, basically, with your son leaving, you've lost your purpose because you've been hyper focused on raising this great kid. So for 16 years, I've been a single mom his entire life. I've provided a home for him food for him, everything he's ever needed, driven him everywhere. He's on track to go to college. He's a great athlete, volleyball player. You know, we're, we've got it. We're on it like I'm doing driving the bus and dustless she paid to write. So she gets you're driving the bus down the road. And you're so focused on getting where you need to be. And you have all that old pain in various seats in the back of the bus. And every time one of them tries to pop up and remind you of the pain, you turn around like a mean Buster and go just sit down and shut up. And you keep driving, and she goes, but now there's nowhere left to drive to so you kind of pulled the bus over at the side of the road and you don't know what to do. And all the pains coming up and I'm like, I looked at her. I said Ramona, the bus is on its side, in a ditch full of muddy water. It's going nowhere. Uh huh. And she's like, yeah, pretty much and I'm like, okay, she goes, now how are you going to take that pain because we all carry pain with us and we'll carry it forever. We never get rid of pain. And that's really hard for a lot of people to accept. And but we have to carry it and we have to look at it in a very very kind in mindful way. Like Yeah, that happened and it's kind of shaped who I am. But it doesn't necessarily have to be my story. And she was, well, how are you going to carry it? So I'm putting it in a backpack. I'm gonna carry it in my backpack. And I got a picture of Denzel Washington in the book of Eli with the machete in the back, and I'm like, that's me. I'm gonna walk my new road for purpose looking right with my machete in my backpack of pain. And I tell you what, for me, going through that kind of catharsis helped me focus on finding a new path. And so at the next appointment I had with her. I said, She goes, how's it going? I'm like, Oh, my God, it's great. I feel so much better the pains in that that's how we're moving along, trying to figure out what I want to do. And she saw Wow, that usually takes like three appointments, to work through stuff. And I'm like, Well, I got it. We're good. And she goes, Okay. And as she's talking to me about something I tuned out and attentive. And I'm looking at the corner of the room thinking to myself, how come I can't keep a damn relationship? And she goes, where'd you go? And I said, Well, I was just thinking, I was just thinking, and she was like, What are you thinking? I said, I was thinking about how, you know, I have friends and I lose them because they're not loyal. And I really need loyalty, and honesty, and some, you know, and I just go through friends, and I can't I only keep really good friends. And I've had friends for 20 years, but then I try and get in a relationship with a guy. And it doesn't last more than two years because I get bored. If they're not smart and constantly up on something and making me laughs I get bored. Tell me a little bit more about that. I'm like, well, for example, blah, blah, blah. And she goes, I think you have ADHD. I said one Betsy Furler 26:47 idea before, like, that's what Stacia Momburg 26:51 this was, I had no idea Unknown Speaker 26:53 and dread Stacia Momburg 26:54 zero because I'd coped my entire life and I've had, you know, a relatively successful career and have raised a great kid. And after a roof over my head, my house is clean. I don't know. Right? And she and I said, What do you mean? I, I don't have trouble focusing on everything. And she goes, No, no. That's not how it works. And she proceeded to explain some things to me. And I said, Okay, okay. And she goes, Alright, so here's, here's some things that people do. And she goes, you know, it's funny, I should have seen it. She does that every time I gave you a test to do, you would just go do it, and we would move through it. And she said, and that should have been an indication that you were just so good at it. Uh huh. I just thought we were doing a good job together. And I'm like, okay, hyper focus. Um, and so she said, I think you have that and we explored that for a few sessions and my world cracked wide open and I was thrilled like I called all my really good friends. I'm like, Oh my god, I have ADHD. That's the best thing I've ever heard. I totally understand you. How did that make you feel? Good or bad. It was so fantastic. It was great. I mean, I finally understood like, it came full circle like I finally got it. You know what I mean? Like my whole life became in focus for the first time whereas before it was more like a vignette, everything was kind of out of focus and fuzzy on the edges. Now, it was like a panoramic, clear picture of why I am the way I am and who I am. I understood that I'm actually much prettier than I ever thought I was. I'm way smarter than I ever gave myself credit for. I'm probably smarter than most people in the room. Most of the time. Meetings are an hour long meeting should take 10 minutes I was never wrong about right. I mean, it's like good lord. Betsy Furler 28:45 Like, wait, this is really boring. Stacia Momburg 28:48 I don't even know how it took me this long to get to this conclusion. I said it 10 minutes ago, and you're just now saying, Oh, yeah, you might be like, come on. Betsy Furler 28:58 Now that kind of like Understanding of yourself and how you process things can suddenly just hit you. I had something the other day where I was thinking I've been very happily married for 25 years. I have a wonderful husband. But I was thinking about the people that I dated prior to him. And I was thinking, yeah, they Yeah, I started thinking through all of them. I was like, how they really had a problem with commitment. Yeah, this one really had a problem with a commit with commitment. This one didn't. I was like, wait a minute. There's, there's one commonality and all this and it's not Unknown Speaker 29:32 them. Betsy Furler 29:37 Like, you know, I guess I just wasn't ready for a serious relationship. Unknown Speaker 29:41 Yeah, Betsy Furler 29:43 yeah. But it is weird how that things like that can just hit you where all of a sudden, like parts of your life just are crystal clear. And you understand how you how you work in a certain way, and how freeing that can be and how, you know what actually What I've discovered from the people I've interviewed for the podcast is that when this happens and you're finally diagnosed or your diagnosis is accepted by either yourself or other people or a combination of that, then all of a sudden, it's not. It's more of a superpower and less of a burden. Stacia Momburg 30:19 It's it's so true. It's so true. Like, I, when I figured this out, and as I've been, as I started on this journey, and this journey is evolving, I, I have wanted to do nothing, nothing but advocate for the neurodiverse because being, you know, hemmed in by a neurotypical world and have been myself having managed neurodiverse people and understanding how insanely smart they are, even though they're kind of weird, like and I say that because I'm weird to like pee. I'm a lot for people and I get that like, I'm a lot. I used to say I'm an acquired Before I knew HD, like I'm gonna acquire data, but the things that people with autism, ADHD, OCD, even Tourette's, like I have a friend with Tourette's, brilliant people, like brilliant, like the ideas that come from them and their way of finding end arounds or efficiencies and the creativity, the creativity is through the roof like crazy and not just like creativity pen to paper or, you know, art create, like, we talked about creativity when I want to talk about art creativity, when talk about creative ways of fine solving, problem solving, right? Betsy Furler 31:41 Yes. Stacia Momburg 31:42 Yeah, like so crazy good. And so all I want to do now is advocate for, you know, finding neurodiversity for your workplace because you need that diversity to kind of have a successful business and if you're able to lead neurodiverse people You are going to be so much more wildly successful than you ever imagined. Absolutely, in my opinion, because I've worked with them and I was just to give you an example. I worked for an athletics department at an NCAA Division One mid major college here where I live. I was one marketing communications person. I hired interns to help me with the job. Several of them were neurodiverse several of them were neuro typical. I was able to run a marketing department that post that did you know, 11,000 seat football game sold out, selling out all of our men's basketball games, you know, marketing all 21 sports, essentially plus fundraising, and doing all the communications and film for like all the communications for fell abroad. fundraising sorry. When I left, they replaced me with three people and they got rid of the internship program. Wow, Betsy Furler 33:01 yeah, yeah, you can get a lot done. Stacia Momburg 33:06 Well, I could get a lot done with the help and it didn't cost them as much, which was confounding to me. But you know, it's what they wanted to do. And so, you know, good on you go for it, get it. But that's the kind of stuff I want to help people understand is you don't have to accommodate us. You just have to let us tell you what we're really good at. And then give us everything we like we can do with those things we're good at and we're going to exceed any expectation you have. Don't be afraid of us. Betsy Furler 33:36 Right. Right. And having people who think differently is so important. Stacia Momburg 33:41 Oh my god. Yeah. It's what makes the world go round. Absolutely. So I Betsy Furler 33:45 have a quick question for you about Coronavirus. And I want you to tell my listeners, kind of what you're doing now how they can get in touch with you and all of that. So, right. Correct. My question about Coronavirus is You know, we're all coping with being cooped up in our houses in different ways. So how do you think ADHD has affected your quarantine or shelter? I guess I think you're sheltering in place, right? Stacia Momburg 34:13 I yeah, all of California has shelter in place. And all of our stores except for essentials are closed at this point. So I can tell you how with ADHD, I'm coping, but I have to tell you that I also have co more comorbidity so I have body focused repetitive behavior. So I have excoriation disorder. Okay. I also have, I'm also a massive introvert. And so, I also love extreme things, as I think I mentioned before, so being a huge person who loves extreme things. I've watched a lot of horror and survival movies. And I have to tell you, I'm dealing extraordinarily well with this because I feel like I've learned Paired my entire life for it. And Betsy Furler 35:03 I know you don't get the energy from other people as much so I do not. It's probably not too bad for me it's, it's excruciating, Stacia Momburg 35:13 I can imagine. Yeah, I can't even imagine what that's like I I feel like my life hasn't really changed because I'm an extreme introvert and I don't have a significant other. That's a whole nother podcast talking about ADHD and relationships. Which I would love to do. I'd love to talk to anybody about that. But you know, I hyper focused on getting survivalists things like batteries and baseball bats and sharpening knives and you know, getting gas in my car. But for my to kind of help with my internal hyperactivity, I've been doing a lot of cooking and baking, which are my favorite hobbies I found out because I just love to do it. Betsy Furler 35:54 Yeah. And I have more time Stacia Momburg 35:57 to do that. I have a ton of time I'm working from home. Which is great because I don't have to deal with all of the people at work. And so I'm just kind of managing it. And even though we're in shelter in place, we can go out and walk, you know, with social distancing, or we can hike or whatever. grocery stores are hard because some people don't understand the six foot rule, which can be annoying for me because it's like, I want to hit people that aren't smart. Betsy Furler 36:22 I mean, you can't hit them because that's making you Stacia Momburg 36:25 know that exactly. Maybe if I just wave a bat around, I don't. I I tend to be a little extreme in my ideologies. But yeah, I'm managing well enough. And my son is managing, he's doing homeschooling. Everything's online now. The dog is absolutely in absolute heaven. You know, she's just so happy. Yeah, yeah. So it's okay. I feel sorry for extroverts. Betsy Furler 36:52 It's, I have been on so many zoom calls. I say. I say I'm talking on the phone like it's 1985 All my colleagues, all my girlfriends and just because I just need and I don't need just some people around me I need 150 people around me at all time. Yeah, yeah, it's it's been interesting but I'm, I'm also trying to get on exercising a lot and actually exercising much more than I know. And I'm really appreciating the fact that I have so much extra time because I'm not spending so much time driving around in traffic. You know, I had kind of underestimated how much time I was because my commute is not bad. But But then when you drive someplace, you know, when you're like, let's go out to dinner and it takes 2025 minutes to get there and 20 to 25 minutes to get back. That's almost an hour of time and now that we're not doing that, it's like, oh, I can watch movies. I've like I said these phone calls where I really miss being able to drag that phone with the cord. You know, yeah, yeah, it's those kind of it's those kind of phone calls where like we're looking through photos together. Stacia Momburg 38:07 Yeah. Oh, I love that. I love that. Betsy Furler 38:10 That's been great but it I have had to like constantly thing but it's interesting to me how all our different brains work differently in this crisis too. And, and I and I am a prepare to like I'd like to plan and I like to know what I have yesterday I am completely reorganized all of our food and, and did a complete inventory. So I know exactly what we have. Unknown Speaker 38:34 And I know my God, Betsy Furler 38:36 I informed my children and my husband that we would now be having to track like what we consume because I'm not going to the grocery store every other day. We need to like be mindful. Exactly. Stacia Momburg 38:49 Yeah. Make a list outside of the cabinets. When you use something. This is what we use every day, Betsy Furler 38:56 like listed by what shelf it goes on and everything and you know That's how I cope with with Stacia Momburg 39:02 crisis. That's fantastic. I actually cope. I've been going out probably once a day to the stores just because it feels like The Twilight Zone to me and being an introvert is it's heaven. Shopping is heavy. Yeah, and I in you know, we don't have to worry about supply chain in the US. I mean, we're going to have access to food, we're going to have electricity, we're going to have gas, I mean, all of our essentials are going to be in place. We just have to manage the social distancing. You know, and people freak out, and that's okay. I mean, and that's one thing I am available to talk to people about their anxiety, and any ADHD stuff that comes up or triggers I have. I want to put this out here for you guys. I do have a certificate in as a neuro linguistic practitioner. And I've done years of work with acceptance and Commitment Therapy. So I'm really good at kind of bringing people into the presence and kind of Facing what's going on my son had generalized anxiety disorder. He was diagnosed when he was nine. And I had to go through practicing that training of helping him with that anxiety and now he doesn't suffer from it as a result of this work. Betsy Furler 40:16 If people are interested in getting in touch with you either to work with you or to follow you online, Mm hmm. I do that. Stacia Momburg 40:24 So I am my main platform that I love is Instagram and you can follow me at PlayStation PL a y sta CIA. It's my own personal Instagram but I post stuff about ADHD I post stuff about mindfulness. I post horrible memes. It's a place to kind of go and let your freak flag fly if you will. And then my website to work with me formally is Coach stasia calm and for the month of May And while we're doing pandemic for anybody who's interested, I will do a 30 to 60 minute session for free. Oh, wow, that's Betsy Furler 41:09 Yes. Stacia Momburg 41:10 Yeah. Just I mean, of course, I have to limit it to one and then I'm considering doing. There's some discounted hourly stuff on planet, Andy dot market, which is where I do hourly coaching at 125 an hour or hourly help. Which is, yeah, it's, it's deeply discounted. It's also on my website, you can click through on my website, but it's deeply discounted for neuro divergence, because my fees are pretty high for coaching. Because you know, I need to make a living. Betsy Furler 41:46 We all do as well. Yeah. And our families are not nonprofit. Stacia Momburg 41:52 That's right. And you can also you can always find me on LinkedIn at Stacia Momburg. I'm on there. I think that's how you and I Sound each other? Betsy Furler 42:01 Yes. And I will put all of that in the show notes. Great. So it has been a pleasure having you on the podcast today. Thank you so much. And oh my gosh, it's been so fun. Betsy, thank you for having me now, and I think my audience is going to really benefit from this. So thank you for being willing to be on and being so open. I truly appreciate it. And to my audience, please subscribe to my podcast rate, my podcast, review the podcast on whatever podcast platform you're on. And you can always contact me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler. And if you want to find out more about my software and my company, it's for all abilities calm. So thank you so much for tuning in today. I will talk to you all soon.
For All Abilities – The Podcast Lanie Zipoy - Life is a Preexisting Condition In this episode, I interview Lanie Zipoy- . On the podcast, Lanie talks about her ongoing diagnosis of several concussions and living and working with a brain injury. We discuss her career as a filmmaker and working from home and COVID 19 with a disability. To connect with Lanie, please follow her on LinkedIn (Lanie Zipoy) or on her website at LanieZipoy.com or the website of her movie, The Subject at https://www.thesubjectmovie.com Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:03 Hi, everybody, thank you so much for tuning into for all abilities, the podcast, I am so glad you're all here to hear from yet another person who is living life with a brain that may be a little bit different from other people's brains, but has really led her into an amazing career. It's super exciting for us to have Lanie Zipoy here with us today. And Lanie and I met because we were on a panel at Dell. Lanie is a filmmaker and she's going to tell us all about herself. So lanie thank you so much for being here. Welcome. And why don't you introduce yourself to my audience and tell them kind of a little bit about you? Lanie Zipoy 0:48 Great. Thanks, Betsy. I love your podcast, so I'm very happy to be on. Yes. As you said, I'm landing. Boy. I'm a Brooklyn based filmmaker. And I have been doing And for the last nine years, over the course of those years for different traumatic brain injuries, or as people know them as concussions, and it's just changed the way that I live really changed everything about my life, and but in ways that were profound and have been helpful, in some ways, as well as challenging. Betsy Furler 1:22 So as you know, and other listeners know, usually I asked you what you were like as a child and for you, it's a little different because when you were a child, you were a totally neurotypical person. So, but I still want to hear I still like to hear people's childhood stories. So tell us a little bit about what you were like as a kid how school was, what you love to do, what college was like for you just give us a little a little glimpse into your life as a child and young adult. Lanie Zipoy 1:53 Yeah, I grew up in Memphis, Tennessee and a blended family that had two older brothers a younger sister, and we were pretty far apart in age, all of us so that was pretty interesting. But like you said, I grew up very neuro typical and that I was a pretty high achiever. I loved all subjects, but you know, particularly shown in science and in English, I love those. I also loved theater and a bunch of things. I was an athlete, I played softball, volleyball, basketball, and even some tennis and golf and bowling. Yeah, I was very active and I played softball through college and volleyball. So you know, was a very high achiever, both on the field and then academically. I love school. I loved going every day. My mom always joked that when I would come home, I would sit right down, do my homework was very focused. And then she had my sister and my sister would come in and she expected her to do the exact same thing. And my sister never ever sat down. And did our homework it was always much more of a struggle. She was like, wait, what happened? What did I do, right? It was just we were very different. My sister also was very high achieving academically, but not focused in the same way that I was. And so then I went off to college and, you know, got to study about different cultures and, and also studied some biology. I did some biology research when I was in high school and through college and really loved that, but ended up doing something really studying more academically in the arts, which I ended up loving. And then right after college, I did something that was a little bit different is that I went to massage therapy school in Seattle. And it was a very medically based massage therapy school. So it blended a lot of what I knew in terms of anatomy, physiology, kinesiology, and that stuff, but also with hands on healing. And then I moved to New York and things sort of changed from there. Betsy Furler 3:57 So when Where did you go to college? Lanie Zipoy 4:00 I went to the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. Oh, nice. Betsy Furler 4:04 And I am well, I grew up in Texas. I also kind of have a piece of Tennessee in my heart and my childhood because my dad got his doctorate in a program that was Vanderbilt and University of the south and so on a Tennessee. Mm hmm. And so we spent every summer for I think, seven years. And Suwanee, Tennessee. Lanie Zipoy 4:26 That's a beautiful place. It's a Betsy Furler 4:27 great place. It couldn't have been more perfect right to get to his little girl to get to run around there. So I love Tennessee. So once you so I guess let's fast forward, what did you tell us about what your career was and then how you acquired the pen injury, and then how your career has changed. Lanie Zipoy 4:49 Wow. So for about a decade when I moved to New York, I needed a job and I ended up working in fashion. And I loved it. I was creative in some ways, and Through part of it, I got to work with fashion designers from Target to Marc Jacobs in terms of developing color stories and what that is, what are going to be the hot colors this year, what's going to be what everybody's going to want to wear in both jewelry and clothing. And to to arrive at that you look at like what movies are coming out what paintings or what artwork is really circling right now where is the world. And so it sort of brought a lot of the things that I like humanity is studying culture and put it into color. And so I did that for about a decade. And then I have the opportunity to transition to work more in the arts, in theater and PR because I had done some PR while I was in college and had had helped some people on the side while I was working in fashion. And I started doing PR for theater and I loved it. It was great. But I quickly transitioned into producing theater because I saw a lot of plays that I loved and they weren't getting the attention that they deserved in terms of getting longer productions and people being aware of them. So I started producing theater. And it was jury producing theater that I sustained my first concussion light in a theater fell on my head. And I had a skull fracture. And I'm very lucky that I survived that it was about nine years ago this week, actually. And it was it was really hard to recover. You know, I was working for myself without a lot of support. And so now I'm a huge advocate with anybody that I know who suffers a concussion, that the time immediately after is so essential to taking care of yourself to self isolating, to making sure that you're not doing anything that causes harm later on. And also to understand that some of these effects for some people go away in a couple of weeks if they're mild. If they're more severe, they can have more or less lifelong effects and understanding what those are is really important. Betsy Furler 7:05 Well and I think as people who are very highly motivated and very you know, I guess product driven as we are, that that's really hard to take that time to slow down. And it's hard for the people around you to realize you need that time. You know, I'm sure people were just like happy you were alive and then like, Okay, come on, let's go on with life as it was before. Lanie Zipoy 7:37 Oh, completely, they expect that you're going to just snap your fingers and you're going to be back at one right ready to hit the ground running. And you're just not I mean, both physically, mentally, socially, emotionally. Like in every aspect, you're not ready to go. I mean, I I describe it that for me, particularly after the first one and then unfortunately, I had a Second one that was an accident on the subway about six months later that was in the same location. So that was really not great for my brain. But you know, the recovery from those two took a long, long time. And there were often times where I describe it where I didn't feel like my brain was attached to my body. I felt like I really had no, it was wobbly. It moved and I wasn't sure which way it was going to move. It was slightly like being constantly seasick or just not feeling like you had your feet firmly on the ground, not able to think and if you've ever had a computer that's getting old and you feel like the processing and everything is running down and it's really slow, and the green gears are grinding, it would have that sort of effect as well. And then if you top it with other side effects such as insomnia, and then later for me some other things I've had which are choking and inability to swallow and stuff. It just it becomes Pretty monumental in your life. It's sort of takes over. And everybody's like, oh, but you're fine. You're alive. You can you can Betsy Furler 9:07 talk. Look, you look okay. Like you always have Lanie Zipoy 9:09 lunch. And exactly. And that is really the thing is that everybody thinks that you're you are processing everything the same way that you were and you just aren't. I have, I've luckily been able to go to some support groups, and those have been really wonderful. And I remember the first time I went this woman who had been in a terrible car accident, and it said, and that it killed her fiance she had lived but had had a really terrible brain injury. She said, you know, that's the day I died. She was I was reborn as somebody new and different, but who I was before. I've never been that person again. And I really feel that I've never been the person I was nine years ago. And, but I've learned how to live with it. And I'm grateful for it. In many ways. It's been a great teacher, but there are still days or times Where you kind of miss that person that you were right before the accident. Betsy Furler 10:04 And things were probably much easier for you prior to the accident. Lanie Zipoy 10:09 And they were they were but you know, I now know if problems or things come up that I'm probably a little bit more resilient than I was, you know, there was something that was great about being able to learn really easily thinking like being able to have a great memory that actually would scare people at times that I could remember figures and things about them. They're like, wait, what, what's going on? Are you how do you remember that and I just did naturally. But in some ways, I'm kind of grateful now that I have developed new tools, new skills, new abilities, to not give up and to keep trying, and also to be kind with myself, when I don't remember something. Or, or if it takes me a little bit longer. I'm just like, I'll come back to it and I'm not judging myself about it. I'm just like, okay. You will remember it at some point because even though I've had four traumatic brain injuries, the thing I know at the end whenever they happen is okay, I will come back in some fashion maybe not exactly the way I was, but I will figure out a way to function. Betsy Furler 11:16 Right, right. So tell us what you were doing now for work professionally and because it's really super fascinating and as my audience already knows, I love film and I also got to be the a consultant on a film as the disability consultant. I've just had so much fun on the SAT with them and, and then getting to see the final. The final product is so amazing and it's in on the the film, what do you call it? I've lost I've lost the word. Lanie Zipoy 11:56 Excel, is it streaming or is it Betsy Furler 11:58 no film festival circuit. Oh, that's great. Yeah. Which, who knows what's gonna happen with that? But anyway, the Yeah, so it's it's been super exciting. So I just can't i can't wait to hear more about your film. So I wanted to tell our audience kind of what you're doing now and, and how your brain in this different way your brain works has kind of kind of like played a factor in that. Lanie Zipoy 12:24 Yeah you know thank you yeah I'm very excited and I'm with you Betsy being part of film has always been a dream when I was when I was little I loved adult films, not cartoons I would make my mom take me to see films in the theater that were for adults, and she would and we would discuss that it was great, but I get you know, I get the chance to admit some short films, but I got the chance to direct feature film called the subject which stars Jason Biggs known for American Pie and many other things in a dramatic role where he plays a documentarian who in the making of his previous film, caught the murder of his subject and African American teen on tape. And two years later, he's dealing with the moral fallout of that and the ramifications of Could he have done something? And as an artist, how was he responsible to this kid he was filming and what should he do? And how should we be in the world? And, you know, I think with everybody having cell phone cameras now, we're all we're probably all going to be faced with that at some point. Do you film What's happening? Or do you ever jump in if you see something in front of you, and what is our calling, so it deals with that and it also stars ingenue Ellis, who I've been a big fan of for about two decades, and she was just Emmy nominated for when they see us on Netflix and Annabel Acosta and Mr. Patterson, I got to work with some really fantastic actors they knew from both screen and from stage so for me, it was really a delight. And it was great because sort of as concussions teach you that you know, to be resilient But also that you can't do everything yourself, which was maybe before I had my traumatic brain injuries, I probably thought I could do more by myself than I do now. That film and I think you would have seen it when you onset is so collaborative, it takes everybody to make amazing Betsy Furler 14:19 i get i that surprised me. When I got to have that experience, and I was so blown away by how, how much everyone works together and helps each other so much. And it felt so giving. And so yeah, so collaborative. That's the perfect word for it. Yeah, Lanie Zipoy 14:41 yeah. And it's wonderful. And that's why the credits are so long at the end of the film, because it takes every single one of those people to make it happen. And so for me, what was great about it was that being the director, you listen to everybody from all the different departments, but you get to make the final decision in terms of how things are going to proceed. Are we going to shoot this way? Do we need to do another take? What do the actors needs? And the truth is I think concussions were very helpful for me and becoming a better director and really listening and asking the actors, first of all, what do you need? And you know, when you and I were talking about during this interview, one of the questions you asked me was, what time of day is good for you? And that was so refreshing to hear. Because most people won't think about that. But because of my concussions because I have ongoing insomnia that I'm okay with, I can manage. I'm not great in the morning is much better for me to meet in the afternoon. So, you know, I talked to the actors, like how do they like best to work what is good for them? And you know, that sort of care and attention like one of them said to me, I've never been asked that ever. And I think that those sorts of lessons those small, actually can impact your day. I mean, whether you get what you want on any given shoot day. or you don't. So I feel very fortunate that I'm getting to work in a field that I love. And part of the reason that I made this pivot to directing was because I knew after going through all my concussions that I was resilient that I could make it through, but that I needed to live out what my dream was, and what I really wanted to do, and that is to direct film. Betsy Furler 16:21 That's amazing. And I do think that sometimes when something traumatic happens to you, or you have an injury, or in my case, it's my son, my I have a 22 year old, he's medically complex. I learned, you know, before I had him, I really thought I was in control of this world. And I quickly learned that I'm not Yeah, and you know, it's and I've learned that more and more and more over the years. It's kind of a lesson I need to keep learning but I think that sometimes when something like your traumatic brain injury happens, you realize that kind of two things One that you're not in control, yes, but also that you are steering the ship and you, and you only have this one life to live. And so doing something you love is really important. Lanie Zipoy 17:17 It's it's so true. And as I mentioned, I'm really into sports. And as I was making my movie, there's a lot of stress. I mean, making a movie is like starting your own company with about 200 people working for you and getting everything off the ground. So there's a lot. And, you know, there were just a couple of things that I would think about with regard to control. One is, just take the next step. Don't go beyond that. take the next step, and then you'll find the next one. But the other thing is, I'm a huge baseball fan. I love the New York Mets. And I've gotten more into them actually post traumatic brain injury because another thing it's taught me is find your joy. Find the things that make you happy and lean into those wherever you So I'm a huge one direction fan. I love corgis. I love the Mets. And I have no qualms about those. Because if I need to, I can watch any of those things, and I'll feel better and it'll set me for a good day. But while I was making my film, one of the Mets pitchers, Jacob Grom was having this amazing season. But the Mets weren't playing well behind them. They would never score new runs, he wouldn't win the game, but he would pitch phenomenally each time he went out. And after every interview, they would ask him, how are you able to do that? And he said, I'm only focused on what I can control. And, you know, as I that was my mantra, so every day I would wake up and I would say, what would Jacob Grom do today? Like what what is in my control? And that's all I can answer. And you know, just to have that reminder in sports, where every every day is a winner law elute you know, you win or lose every day. Yeah. Which is really like, Oh, this is great. This is how I can set myself up to win every day is to think about what is in my control and work on that. Betsy Furler 19:02 Yeah, I'm amazed by elite athletes. I'm not I'm not an athlete in itself. And so I never I never thought about this world until really like, a few years ago, but I'm amazed by elite athletes and, and their mindset and ability to get past all sorts of obstacles, you know, because there's lots of people who are have the physical talent, and, but they're not that many people who can have the physical talent and the talent with using their mindset in the right way. And I think the same thing with, you know, directors of film and therapists and, you know, business owners and everything, like that mindset piece is so, so important. Lanie Zipoy 19:51 It makes or breaks anything and having, you know, been an athlete myself and pitching at the collegiate level. It does how you how you end Winter will change everything. And so yeah, so it's great to have to have those lessons. And you know, as I went into my production, the other thing that I really wanted to think about was how to control the environment where not only is the film, what people are going to see out in the audience, something that I would be proud of, but the environment in which we worked, I would be proud of. And I think that that's the call for everybody as well working and as we said, we met on that conference call with Dell, when I've been so, you know, inspired by is the work that they are doing to support their staff in ways and that means so much. And so, you know, for me, that was the other part of being the director and being sort of, you know, front and center is how can I support the other people I'm working with, they may not have had concussions but a lot of people are dealing with something right like life is a pre existing condition is what I say. It brings you something Betsy Furler 21:00 Yeah, and that's true. And we all have differences in the way we think and, and work. And the more you can make someone comfortable, the more you can get out of them. You know, from just a selfish standpoint, whether you're an actor or a company, the more you can, the more comfortable and valued that your employees feel, the better they're going to work for you. So, you know, whether you're making a film or making computers, that is so important, and I think it also, you know, you also gain the respect and the loyalty in that way, as I'm sure that people loved everyone who, who worked on your film just absolutely loved it and will carry it with them forever because of they felt that respect. Lanie Zipoy 21:53 Thank you. Yeah, I think they did. We're all still in each other's orbits and still keep in touch. You know, we're sort of family In a way is what it would it created. And we're all looking for ways to work together again, because it was so joyous, we looked forward to every day, even if it meant we were on set at 6am. We were very happy to be there, you know, and that, that says something. And you know, the other part was honestly, I didn't write the script that was by CISA, Hutchinson, but it has something to say about this world. And so when you also work on projects that people feel engaged with and feel are really important. That also helps. So I was very fortunate to have that on my side as well. Betsy Furler 22:33 Yes. So since we are all in various forms of quarantine or shelter in place, and would you be willing to talk a little bit about how you have reacted to, I think your shelter in place, correct? Lanie Zipoy 22:47 Yeah, yeah, I'm a shelter in place in New York City. You know, I have, I think that a lot of things have really prepared me for this moment. And this is where you know, somebody He said to me, Well, your concussions have been your greatest teacher. And I think that that is true even if I didn't want to accept that at certain points. But you know, there are a couple of things that happen when you have a traumatic brain injury. First of all, it happens in an instant and your life has changed. You're completely different, how you orient to the world, the things that I need to do now, to prep myself for a project are different than they were before. And that changed immediately in a heartbeat. And I had no control over that. And that's sort of I think, what we're feeling right now, it didn't happen immediately, but pretty quickly that we went into shelter in place. And so I'm feeling like, oh, my goodness, my life is totally different. Additionally, because of my concussions I've been working from home for for quite a while, partially because of my insomnia. It's just much better, that I don't have a nine to five job where I have to be somewhere for long periods of time at the same time in the morning. I can get up some mornings or on a film shoot it's a few weeks ago. Do that. But this way I can control my schedule. I think the other thing is is that you know, when you're when you have the compression often you're off devices and I highly recommend that to people I think be as connected as you can be, but definitely find time not to be connected. And just be with yourself and let your mind rest because that is really good, especially when things seem scary and overwhelming out in the world. And then like I said, you know, alluded to earlier, you know, I, if I'm feeling down or out of place, I find something whether it's listening to a silly pop song or watching a Corgi video, and I just give myself that breath to do it or if it's meditation, whatever it is, that we need to sort of set us right is really, really important. And you know, I feel like those are great lessons that I've learned from from concussions also I've to heal. I've also had to self isolate, but I I will say I do remember in the early days of my self isolation from concussions just how difficult that was because I am naturally gregarious person, I am a New Yorker I do like going out and enjoying it. So I understand the sort of existential dilemma and crisis we're in, but then the real need for, for people and for seen others and I get it. It's really, really tough and challenging. But I think as we do it more and as we get more used to it, it becomes a little bit easier. Betsy Furler 25:32 Yeah, I say that I'm, I'm a very extreme extrovert and I don't just need to talk to people and see them on zoom. Or see one person at a time I need 150 feet or on the street or whatever. Like that is 100% where I get my energy and so I've been really having to be creative about how I how I get, you know, get enough people time into my life. My my son, my 22 year old son, which my podcast listeners know, but yeah, he had, he's had a very rare autoimmune disease his whole life. And then he developed autoimmune encephalitis and he has a acquired brain injury because of it. He's doing absolutely great. But there are times you know, still, like you were saying, where his brain just doesn't work the same as it did before. But he is really rocked this whole shelter in place thing, we have pretty much quarantine him from the beginning, because we don't want him to catch it. And so, you know, we've also isolated him a bit from the rest of the family. And because he's been in the hospital so many times and sick so much, he's just like, you know, hey, yeah, let me sit and watch Disney Channel for, you know, 12 hours. And, and yeah, I mean, he's still coming out and we try to walk and everything but it's really been so much easier on him than that. The rest of my extremely extroverted family, we're all extroverts. And and so, you know, we're all like, Hey, where can we drive? Is Starbucks drive thru open? Lanie Zipoy 27:10 Right, right. Yeah, I think it is a combination of figuring out what it is that you can possibly do to, you know, stop yourself from, you know, having anxiety about this or not seeing people. I totally, I totally think that but I also just know, and I think this is that we're adaptable. And sometimes we think we're not, or that we can't handle change. But I have seen people faced with so much in my lifetime, and they've been able to figure out a way to make it through and whether that's illness, whether that's, you know, changing in the brain, you know, brain injury, whatever it is, but I trust that we can figure out a way you know, a friend of mine on zoom last night, I was talking to a friend but her husband was in the background. He yelled off camera. Manny, is there any hope? And I said, Yeah, there's always hope. There's always hope. Betsy Furler 28:05 Absolutely. There is always hope. And I think one thing that people with any sort of disability are difference and you know, diagnosed with any kind of condition or medical problem. And, you know, people will say, oh, they're so resilient. And it's like, Yeah, they are. But you know what, we all are that resilient. But they've had the chance to prove that. Yes. So you've had so you now know, you can get hit on the head and almost die and, and then make this amazing film. Yeah. Wait, before that. You probably thought if I got hit on the head. I'm done. Lanie Zipoy 28:45 Yeah, yeah, I would have never imagined I would recover in the way that I did. Right. And I didn't know that I could live with certain things day to day. The way that I the way that I do and I but I'm not the only one. I see that. I have a lot of friends who have suffered traumatic brain injuries and other things. And I watch what they do and I marvel. And the truth is, is use. As you mentioned earlier, a lot of times when people see me or see my friends who have TBI is they have no idea. Like none like we don't we don't present anything that wouldn't necessarily make them think that we are living a little bit differently. And so yeah, but I have seen resilience and in all of its forms, and I know that even though this is tough, but we will find ways to make it through Betsy Furler 29:31 we will and will probably be much better off to all said and done. I just see. I know, you know, just the slowing down of our society, the less time spent in traffic the less quote unquote busy for the sake of being busy. You know, we we would go out to dinner and spend so much time just driving back and forth from the restaurant or all sorts of different things where it's like yeah, Now that we're not doing that anymore, I really, I really don't miss it. I'm really enjoying walking in my neighborhood and chatting with neighbors I haven't seen in 15 years sometime. And I think I think that it's I think it's all gonna be okay. Lanie Zipoy 30:16 Yeah, I mean, I think I think it will be really rough before it's okay. But I think it will be too. I think it's just us learning new ways and learning new ways of support. You know, in the short term, yes, I'm concerned because most of my friends are part of the gig economy. And they're artists without a job. So yeah, so so in the short term carrying a lot of fear, and I'm concerned about them. But you know, another thing I learned that is also helping me in this is that my film has been accepted to a few festivals, but as to when they are happening, I'm not sure and I'm waiting to hear from a bunch of other festivals, but also they don't know what's happening, right. So there's all this like, right, what's next, I was planning on having the premiere of my festival in just about six weeks and now it's like, I I don't know when it's gonna happen. But I saw this film about a month ago at BAM called Kane river that was made in the 1980s and independent African American film. And the filmmaker at 41 died of a heart attack right before anything was going to happen and is shown at one festival. This movie took almost 40 years to be released into cinemas, I cried, you know, as a filmmaker, I cried when I watched it thinking about that. But his children who were 10 years old around the time that he passed away, got to see it. And they said that it was like having their father standing right next to them again, which is going to choke me out thinking about what I thought there is a way like this is not the way he envisioned this is probably not what he would have wanted. But audiences got to connect with this film 40 years later. And there was something about that, that as you know, as I was starting to understand that the pandemic would also affect the release of my film in some way that I was like, Okay, I can be okay with that. I'm not in control, it will happen in some way. I hope it's not four years from now that it's seen, but I will just trust that it will happen in the way that it's supposed to at this point. Betsy Furler 32:11 Well, and I actually had like an incredible week. So as you know, and I think my listeners know, I have a start up as a start up and my saw I have a software solution for employers to use to support their employees with all different kinds of brains. Yep. And, you know, I thought as this was kind of coming on, and I've known since China, hey, I was like, it's gonna come here like, this is logical, right? So what am I gonna do? And I thought, you know, at first I thought, whoa, I'm not gonna get any funding for my company. This is going to be so hard. I'm not going to get to pitch I'm, Oh, my goodness. Now South by Southwest is, you know, not happy and, and then last week, I had my virtual pitch event on Monday of last week, you and I spoke to Dell on what it was that Thursday. Yep. And another computer company. He contacted me like just off of LinkedIn out of the blue. Like, tell us about your software, we might need to use it. I mean, it was just like kind of a amazing week. And I love it. I love it. And it just shows that even though it's not happening in the way we thought it was gonna happen. Again, we're not really in control of that. So yeah, so I know your film is going to thrive, and I personally can't wait to see it. Thank you. And I would love for our audience to be able to follow you keep in touch. So how can they find out more about you find out more about the film and keep in touch with you. Lanie Zipoy 33:40 Yeah, that would be great. So if they go to my website, which is just my name laniezipoy.com that is one place that they can keep in touch with me. And the film is at the subject. movie.com and yeah, those are two great places to keep In Touch, and we'll be announcing everything either on my site or probably both about what's coming up for the premieres Betsy Furler 34:07 Awesome. Well, yes, I look so forward to staying in touch and, and then I'll share all of that information in the show notes for this podcast. But then, as I get information from you in the future, I'll also share it on my pages so my audience can see that Lanie Zipoy 34:22 well, but say, I want to just say thank you so much. This has been great. I've really enjoyed and learned a lot from listening to the other guests who have been on your podcast and I'm just grateful to be able to talk to you today. Betsy Furler 34:33 Well, thank you so much. And thank you to my audience for listening today. And please subscribe to the podcast review rate the podcast, you can do it on whatever podcast platform you're listening to this on. And please continue to listen, listen to the shows. You can contact me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler. It's Fs and Frank. You are le AR my software can be. You can find out more about that. At www dot for all abilities COMM And through there you can also get to my blog where you can also find out more about me and other things that I do. So thanks for listening today. I will talk to you soon
On this episode, I interview Will Manzanares - speaker and writer On the podcast, Will talks about his recently published book “I Can’t Read” about his life with dyslexia. To connect with Will, please follow him on LinkedIn (William Manzanares) or on his website at willtalksbiz.com. His book is available on Amazon in paperback form, Audible audiobook and for Kindle. I Can't Read: A Guide to Success Through Failure https://www.amazon.com/dp/1544514158/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_03DLEbW50ED5R Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome back to for all abilities, the podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in. And I hope this podcast helps you understand all of the amazing differences we all have, and how valuable those differences are. Please subscribe rate and review the podcast anywhere you're listening to it. Today I have a special guest will I'm going to have him tell you his last name because I cannot remember people's names from one moment to the next. I'm so terrible and I've butchered so many podcasts, guests names. So I just decided I'm going to have them introduce themselves. And we'll his written a book about his journey with a reading disorder. And he's going to tell us all about it. So welcome to the podcast. Well, William 0:55 hey, thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm William man's nurse. The Fourth, I hated spelling out my name in preschool because I have a long last name. But to that I like to go by will. And yeah, I'm I'm glad you could have me on the show. I think you're doing a great thing to raise awareness for those with learning differences. And I did recently publish, I can't read a guide to success to failure. And the great part is I do have that slash through it because you You and I are having the conversation prior to the show about is it I read or is it Betsy Furler 1:32 Yeah, when I was looking at I was like, Oh, I don't know how to. I don't know how to tell my listeners about the name of this book. But I think it's a great title. The front cover looks fantastic. I was meant to tell you that earlier when we were talking. I love the whoever you had to the graphic design, they did a great job or you did it yourself. It looks fantastic. And I would love for you to tell us A little bit about yourself. So let's start at the beginning when you were a little boy. So what were you like as a child in, you know, preschool elementary school. William 2:11 I was really creative in preschool. And I remember hating kindergarten, because that's when you first half to start reading. I didn't know I was different till I got to the first grade. And then didn't really pay much attention to it till you know my mom said they wanted to hold me back was the second grade that I realized I had an issue because the second grade teacher her first year of teaching put me back in first grade reading. So I'm a second grader in first grade reading. So I've already started filling that less than less than in the tournament holding back but I remember crying because we were taught in first grade. I remember the teacher I don't know how I remember this, but it was part of that for thinking is we're going to be the class of 2000. So I thought that meant something big millennium. I didn't know what any of that words meant, but I knew something big so I need to be out of it. So my Mom never held me back. Unknown Speaker 3:02 But oh my god. William 3:05 Yes. Which now I look back 20 years. Oh, where did they all go? Betsy Furler 3:11 I know Time flies so fast as a whole amazing though that your mom thought to do that. I mean that I think that is really important. William 3:19 I mean, people ask and we met integrate. If people are on Facebook, there's so many great dyslexia and learning difference and they say disabilities, I always like to call it a difference. Ages and that's how we met and you have to find people like you to feel normal, I guess is the word and that's the word that gets thrown around a lot. If you're dyslexic is it's not normal, or, and I hope that I can erase that stigma. And I'll go with my personal side when I was the ages. If we were on a topic about business and entrepreneurship, I would say I started my first businesses in my room. I would sell candy back to my sister from holiday. When she ran out in November, my mom would always tell those stories. So I was always creatively trying to make money because we came from, you know, I want to say were poor, but it felt something different. And I could feel it. I knew something was different. My parents I knew money was tight. And, Unknown Speaker 4:13 uh huh. William 4:14 Looking back, I can almost say the empathy. That dyslexic share was something I could sense and I think kids have a great sense of the world around them. But mine was business. I always liked opening businesses. I tried everything you could do for a kid that was legal, I guess. Was that was where I shined. So through school. It was always focused for me when they would ask you in earlier Elementary, what are you going to be when you get older here take these tests. I just remember answering yes to anything that sounded like business. So I don't know. It was always trying to skew what I saw as my future. So that was what I was good at. And what I focused on Betsy Furler 4:57 what was middle school like Middle School in high school, William 5:01 I mean, I think we all have different memories. I mean, when you look back and I, it's interesting now that I put it in my book, it's almost like writing and telling your story purges your your soul of any negativity. So it's kind of out there, it's gone. It's in the book, it was my, my experiences. I think like everyone else, we're just trying to find a way to get along in the world. And we want to have a sense of belonging. And this was before all this social media, so we were just kids. Unknown Speaker 5:30 Uh huh. And Betsy Furler 5:34 what about after high school when you graduated from high school? When did you did you go to college? Did you go to a job, I went to community college William 5:41 and then started working. I already had a job in high school, but I kept that going and just progressed in that and then had an opportunity to work a couple other jobs and get into kind of the area of the business of convenience stores that I'm in now. Unknown Speaker 5:55 Uh huh. William 5:57 All along that way, just did what you were supposed to do. I guess I've never shared this on a podcast, but it was one of those things in my gut, you have everyone telling you you have to have these degrees and I am not, please if you have a degree Don't get mad with the statement, but you have to have these degrees to succeed. That's what I remember about school barding you with you need this to succeed. And internally, I thought, crap, I struggle with reading. So I'm gonna have to work at this or work a little harder. And so I didn't finish my bachelor's degree I dropped out my daughter was born when I was 21. So I focused on starting a business and a few other things. And I guess there was always that self doubt of all your friends and the people around you who went on to college who got a Bachelor's who were telling you and wanting you to succeed and get a degree. And then when it happened, that was my confirmation bias. And confirmation bias means you look in the world for something to confirm your own bias was say Working among businesses and all these people who have a degree who can't find a job, I was already working on making my own job, right started back as a child feeling less than because everyone else can succeed around you with what is so hard. And looking at a word and not knowing what it is. If someone has that they know what I'm talking about. And if someone has that they're the ones who can look at the title and go, they instantly get it. And that's where the story began was just me wanting to self learn, and self teach myself and keep working at it and working harder and working, working, working, not just to graduate and get a, you know, an associate's degree in college or anything else. But just to tell myself, I can do it. Betsy Furler 7:44 Right, right. I think our culture put so much emphasis on our education that we're we're really educating kids for the Industrial Revolution. And we've moved way past that. And, but we're still educating kids in that way. And we're also So putting so much value on academic skills, and then you get out in the world, so I have a I have a undergrad, bachelor's and a master's degree. I'm a speech pathologist by training. And I did well in school. I am like, you know, I did fine. Like it was easy for me. But you get out in the entrepreneurial world because now I have a software startup. And I have to unlearn a lot of things that I learned to do that helped me succeed academically. And so the those what we're teaching our kids in school is not just a, you know, not not just not needed, but it's actually harmful. And when you get out there and you're an entrepreneur, so I was just was having a discussion today with somebody about the harm we're doing to our kids. Right now in this college bound culture, and everybody has got to go to college and really sending the message that you're less than if you don't. And we need to stop doing that. William 9:10 I couldn't agree with you more in in with the Industrial Revolution process of school teaching. And I just want to scream like, if percent of the population one in five are dyslexic, so that means 20%. Well, more than 20, but one in five of the products coming out of the school system are not working. No other business in this world would let a manufacturing process of 2001 and five of the products not working happen, but yet the bureaucracy of school systems allow that. Right? What it does allow and this is where I don't I'm not one who knocks the school system. And I'm not one if you've in my book, I don't go into details or blame because as soon as I hear someone making an excuse or blaming a teacher or something, I want to stop and go you can fix your own situation. That's the whole premise of my book is take the cash out of your life. But it's frustrating to see that but they don't want to change it. And then they call it a disability and I call it a different ability. And through the years of not understanding what I had, and then discovering audible in my 30s you guys know my age if you doing the math. I digested hundreds of books, hundreds and hundreds of books in the last couple years and it changed everything. Betsy Furler 10:31 Yes, I love audible too. So I shared with you in the interview, and I believe I've shared on the podcast before that I have corneal dystrophy. So I have a disease called lattice dystrophy and basically deposits are forming on my corneas in a lattice pattern. My eye doctor says it's just beautiful when you see it under the microscope. I'll have to take her word. And so my ability to read has been going down Over the years, and I can still read with the glasses, but it's very hard on my eyes and it's not as enjoyable as it used to be. And but audible has been that has been a lifesaver for me and I consume so much content, listening to books in my car, especially and then every night, I listen to a book as well. William 11:23 See, and I hope I think there's, it's a great correlation of anyone who loves podcasts, pick up an audible book or an audiobook and just start listening. And yeah, I it's, I'm just so wanting to spread the joy of reading to those who don't know it. And when I first started talking about this openly, people who have never suffered with anything, don't understand. This book wasn't necessarily for them, though. Parents have reached out to me who don't have dyslexia who've never had any problems who can't relate to their kids and they they For the book. Yes, that feels good. And I guess the biggest thing for any viewer listeners is there, we all have differences. But what brings us together is our commonalities and the cool common traits shared by Dyslexics aren't shared by every dyslexic, but it's something I brag about. Even if you your kid doesn't show it now, I was in my 30s until I could fully understand my whole life to go back and go, Wow, the cause and effect and every cool trait of dyslexia that I think is super cool. I have Wow, that explains so much. But if you know it at your young age, or if your parent or you know that your kid has it, and that's great. And then the parents who think it's a death sentence, I'm like, wow, what are they what though, man? There's so many cool things with it. I explained that in my book, but it's just one is I can listen to audiobooks at the highest speed. and retain the knowledge. So Wow, I can do that's impressive I wish I could have done as a child. And not everyone can listen, I've met other dyslexic I've been trying to find others dyslexic who can listen to higher speeds. There's some kids. I saw in that group we said Who? Their daughter to listen at two times, but it's because it's new. I said, Yeah, but when she's older, she's gonna be able to listen to it at the highest speed and retain Yes, Betsy Furler 13:23 I can listen it two times, but no, sometimes 2.5 depending on how tired my brain is. So tell us about how did your book come about? What did you What made you decide that you wanted to write a book? William 13:40 I've had a lot of setbacks and start startups in my life and businesses that I have always came out stronger after the words and people. You know, just assume that about me. Well, during one of my businesses, it was getting harder to hire people and of course, the money So what's the younger generation I don't take any of that. I think it's just you got to find the people, you got to work for it. So instead of making it easier to get a job, I made it harder. I made everyone read the customer rules by Lee Cockrell, he worked at Disney World. And years of his career, and he talks about his Disney experience in customer service, want to increase the customer service at my company, I made it a requirement. Well, then I had this crazy idea of trying to get everyone to read a book a month. And that didn't go over very well with employees. And it's something led to another and I finally sat them all down at a company meeting and explained to them my story of struggle in school. And that it's a passionate thing for me now because of audible and how I want everyone else to feel the joy of reading. That led to people sharing me their stories about their loved ones. And it got me to look into it more and realize not only was I not alone, but I am millions upon millions of people struggle with reading 32 million in this country can't read. And then there's different levels of proficiency. Have reading inequalities and it's frustrating that it's not talked about. So I said, I'm going to put my entrepreneur skills to the test and not write a book about business, but write a book about my own personal struggle and triumph. Betsy Furler 15:14 That's amazing. And yes, the statistics shocked me. Still, it shocks me that over 20% of the population population in the United States cannot read. William 15:28 And then you have the different levels of proficiency during tests that show you that people aren't understanding exactly what they're reading as well. Betsy Furler 15:35 Right. And that's an even bigger percentage. And it's just it's it's amazing that our culture continue our society continues to push this and to push the our old way of teaching, especially when what I still see a lot of are the child's having difficulty reading So they just teach them the same, how to read again, the same way that they taught him the first time. That didn't work. It's like William 16:09 zactly, Betsy Furler 16:10 that does not work. We need to move on to something different, but it's just I help I help parents fight for their kids frequently to get better services, more services, outside services if needed, but that everyone deserves to be able to use their strengths and to not have to be focusing on their weaknesses all the time. William 16:36 Thank you for doing that for those parents. And I hope if parents are listening to this, they don't see dyslexia as the doomsday for their child that they can show them the celebrities and the business moguls who are dyslexic and use that as a point of they made it you can and yeah, believe so much in this country that our self determination is who we need. Come. And if you take all the negative self talk and there's lots of other things that go along with this, I've seen correlations with depression and other things. Of course, it is depressing being in a classroom and feeling stupid and feeling less. Betsy Furler 17:12 Yes. Yes. And then sometimes being out in a workplace and being made to feel stupid. William 17:20 And trust me it doesn't, doesn't just go away just because you do that I've even more people don't say you're openly dyslexic. I did I do a lot of social experiments. And I took a job for a while and they didn't like that I was openly dyslexic. So they questioned my intelligence and I thought how, okay, to me, if you go off and live your dream and go make your own business and do something that actually helps people, then you're living something if you're trying to work in a huge corporation, then I think the school system is for you. But it wasn't for me. It just reminded me of things of being in school and it's not a death sentence. It's not a doomsday sentence. It's an opportunity to now find the resources that are available like audible like we disgust are these other programs that exist that were created by fellow Dyslexics who struggled who then created and made something better for the next generation. Betsy Furler 18:10 Yes, and the speech to text is so great and spell check and all the different spelling things. Another Do you know the AP American word speller. William 18:21 I don't not familiar with that. Betsy Furler 18:23 I love that out. And I don't know if you have difficulty spelling. But what I like about American word speller is that you can type in the word You know how sometimes you type in a word, and it's so far off that the, the word prediction doesn't work. So with American word speller, you can type in like I always use the word pneumonia as an example. You can spell it you know, and II W and OMA. And it will, it will come up with pneumonia and the definition of the word and it's it's amazing. It's amazing. We have tools William 19:00 like that. And then some of the quirky says that someone might realize is if you keep spelling the word wrong so much that it's spelled wrong in your spellcheck, and somehow you accidentally saved it. So now you can't spell Yes. Betsy Furler 19:10 Yes. Now, now it thinks that that's how it's spelled. William 19:14 Yeah, Grammarly is a good one on a Google Chrome I've done some copying and pasting back and forth or between Microsoft in that to make sure I'm spelling something correctly or, and the English language in itself is hard. There's it's Betsy Furler 19:27 very complicated. William 19:29 Yes. Speaking it's great, but to actually write it becomes more complex but no, it's not a death sentence. It's not an Doomsday it's an opportunity to have the knowledge to know that your kid can work around this with these tools that exists now that people that like we went through wish we had those and you're getting to discover things that you know you need now and it's great. Betsy Furler 19:57 So will tell me before we go on To tell me one story, and I didn't prepare you for this. So I'm sorry. But I want you to tell me one story that someone has told you about either hearing your story or reading your book. Tell me something that somebody else has told you about how that helped them or how that made them feel. William 20:22 I was gonna pause for that because I keep hearing a ringing in the background when you were talking. Betsy Furler 20:26 Yeah, we can wait a second. Unknown Speaker 20:32 Yeah, it's my friend's phone. Betsy Furler 20:35 I'm at somebody else's house cuz I'm out of town. William 20:37 I've done that on the road before too. So thank you. Betsy Furler 20:43 Okay, I'm going to restate the question. Okay. Okay, well, one more thing. Before we wrap up, I would love for you to tell us something that someone told you either that after they read your book or after They heard your story. What's Tell me somebody's feedback on what it means to them to have you come be so brave and vulnerable and coming forward and telling your story. William 21:12 I think out of all the comments I heard the most humbling one was, I've never finished a book in one sitting from cover to cover until I read your book. Unknown Speaker 21:22 Wow, that is Unknown Speaker 21:23 powerful. William 21:25 And I'm gonna start reading more books that you recommend. And Betsy Furler 21:29 that, yeah, that that's that. I bet that gives you some some satisfaction on a job well done with writing your book. William 21:39 I think it gives that little boy who cried himself to sleep and wished he could do all this that satisfaction. I think it gives hope for those kids who still haven't told their parents that they struggle. Mm hmm. Maybe not have all the best resources that someone out there wrote this for them. Betsy Furler 22:00 Yeah, can you imagine when you were seven, being able to look into the future and seeing that you wrote a book? William 22:08 I actually mentioned some of that idea in my book where I wished and thought and hoped and said, I wish I could just read a book superfast and then when audible came along and could, yeah, I think like Walt Disney once said, dream it, if you can dream it, you can do it. And I dreamed and instead of sitting around and waiting for it to happen, I worked at it so hard that reading now is such a blessing. And I never thought it would take me anywhere. I was just trying to survive in the classroom. And I was just trying to better myself one, one word at a time. And it led to all this and I'm hoping we can together work at erasing the stigma and changing the school system from that factory mindset to a more holistic approach and not letting anyone feel dumb or superior in the classroom because that goes with them and right delete leaders, the best leaders are the ones who were kicked the most or felt internally less than. And the ones who try to make people feel less than are the ones that need the most help. Mm hmm. Because I don't I brag about this stuff now with the dyslexia, but I brag about it in the sense that I'm hoping to inspire others. I know I've made a few people upset going well. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so how many books Have you listened to today? You know? Betsy Furler 23:34 Well, um, tell my audience a little bit about how they can buy the book and how they can get in touch with you. If they would like to either get in touch with you or get to know more about you. William 23:47 Well, I know my last names hard to spell so I came up with willtalksbiz.com , we'll talk because I figured that way easier than the whole thing. And then you can get my book on Amazon. I can't read a guide to success. failure. And it's of course, it's available on Audible. And since you've been such a great host, I'd like to give a couple copies away on your show. So if someone wants to reach out to you, I'll send them some free copies. Awesome. Betsy Furler 24:12 Okay, yeah, I will. I'll figure out how to do that. And I will put it in the show notes. For any, I guess the first two people that contacted me and want a free copy. We will send those to them. Thank you so much for that. William 24:28 It's my pleasure. Betsy Furler 24:29 And well, thank you so much for being on for all abilities, the podcast today, you have been a fabulous guest. And to all my listeners, please review the podcast and do the rating and subscribe and tell all your friends about it. And we'll be back next week. So thanks, will it was wonderful. Have a great afternoon. Unknown Speaker 24:56 You too. Thank you
On this episode of For All Abilities The Podcast, I talk with Wanda Deschamps about her late diagnosis of autism. She was diagnosed with autism at the age of 47 when she was struggling with mental health issues and her son was diagnosed with autism. She talks about the challenges of being a woman with autism. She is the principal and inclusivity champion at Liberty Co. Liberty Co partners with organizations and individuals advancing meaningful societal causes. You can connect with Wanda through LinkedIn (Wanda K Deschamps). Please check out the great work Liberty Co. is doing at www.libertyco.ca. Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription by Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome to for all abilities, the podcasts. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Have a listen to for all abilities, the podcast and please subscribe on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Hi, everybody, welcome back to for all abilities the podcast. Today I have a special guest, Wanda Duchamp's. And she is going to tell us a little bit about herself and her diagnosis on the autism spectrum and some other diagnoses that she again was not diagnosed until adulthood. So welcome Wanda. Thank you so much for being here. Wanda Deschamps 1:00 Thank you for having me, Betsy. I really appreciate the opportunity. Betsy Furler 1:03 Yes, I can't wait to learn more about you. So why don't you start by just introducing yourself to my audience. Wanda Deschamps 1:10 My name is Wanda, and I live in Waterloo, Ontario, Canada with my husband, Ryan and our children, Adrian and Renee. Betsy Furler 1:21 Great and I usually like to start by talking about asking my guests about their childhood. So if you could tell us a little bit about what you were like when you were a little girl, that would be great. Wanda Deschamps 1:35 Well, I was curious from the start, my husband Ryan asked me once if I was born, inquiring about how many stripes zebras had and why the sky was blue and why the crosswalk was yellow. very naturally. Curious and I love learning. Betsy Furler 2:05 Were you a good student when you were in school? Wanda Deschamps 2:10 I was a good student in elementary school. I struggled socially. Mm hmm. And struggled academically as I progress through junior high in high school, however, initially elementary school Yes, I was strong, especially around languages. English library. Betsy Furler 2:39 Did you like to read a lot as a child? Wanda Deschamps 2:41 Yes. Do I love to read as a child? Then I love to read isn't at all. Betsy Furler 2:51 Did you have any siblings? Wanda Deschamps 2:53 Yeah, something very unusual as the youngest of 10 sibling. Wow. Yes. And my parents were 40 and 51 when I was born. Mm hmm. Oh, not only was I a very unique child, I was a very unique child in a very unique family. Betsy Furler 3:14 Right, right. And I know in big families often the older kids are helping supervise the younger kids, your parents were probably fairly tired of parenting by the time you came along. And Wanda Deschamps 3:27 very astute observation. Betsy Furler 3:31 I know I'm tired of parenting and I only have two. So Wanda Deschamps 3:36 the Betsy Furler 3:39 Yeah, I bet that did make for a different dynamic. Did you get along well with your siblings? Wanda Deschamps 3:45 Well, always interesting. I say that I was more of an elite child than I was a child with a number of siblings because of the age gap up and just because some of our families serve circumstances I actually ended up spending a lot of time alone. By and large, I got along with my siblings, of course, more so than others is often the case in a large family. There is some family members I literally didn't know until I became an adult. Oh, interesting. Yeah, because we just didn't have that time together. I mean, I think a sibling relationship is something that you always have to nurture, right. I'm, I'm a believer that we, we don't really know. Many people very well. Even people we live with it takes a lot to get to know someone it takes some takes investment on each side. Yeah, but Sir, I've had the good fortune of getting to know some of my older siblings better. as we as we as time progressed, and as the age difference between us became less important The years. Betsy Furler 5:01 Right, right, because when you're when you're a child, you know, five or 10 years is a world of difference. Unknown Speaker 5:07 And this means even more. Betsy Furler 5:09 Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I now my kids are six years apart. And they're really like having two only children. Mm hm. Wanda Deschamps 5:19 So, yes. So you understand to Korea, right, Betsy Furler 5:22 right. They get along and they, you know, they definitely know each other well, but it is different with that gap. So you said you struggled socially in school. So what did that look like? Like in elementary school in middle school? Wanda Deschamps 5:36 I had different interview process I I would say I felt like I had more Maclaurin trust from the beginning and an example I use politic. So if I was, if I was bored, asking, you know how many stripes deeper that it seemed like I was born for asking questions, politics, Right. I say that that was like drinking milk from a bottle. You know, it was it there was a an instinct behind it now ated ated with the situation was the reality that my father was a political science professor. Okay. Yes. And members of my family were were even if they weren't engaged politically, I had a number of family members or variables in the community. So say there's a level of civic engagement and I had especially one family member who I'm very close to who was involved and who was involved in political activity. So, but even even beyond that, I was, I was very interested and I remember the first time I asked my father specific political question, I was about 10 need to write only to write the political leader who would be able to answer my question. So I did. Betsy Furler 7:07 That's amazing. So with my son Henry, who's almost 22 now I say that he was 65 when he was born, so now he's like an 87 year old. So it sounds like you were similar to that when you were a little girl. Wanda Deschamps 7:21 Yes, I was, I would, I had what you would describe as mature interest for my age. I would say that followed me. And then at a point, things settled and I would say got caught up because having an adult and having adult interest is is a good match. Betsy Furler 7:47 Right and then your friends are now the people around you are thinking about the same things and and you can connect with them on the things that you're interested in. Whereas a child I'm sure there weren't very many other 10 year olds cared about politics Wanda Deschamps 8:02 as much as I did. No, not at all. So now we have gretta. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Betsy Furler 8:12 So what about college you went off to college I saw on your LinkedIn profile and and I think I saw that you majored in sociology. Wanda Deschamps 8:22 Very good. I did major in sociology only by one course. Minor history, but it was a six five split. So, not to get too far ahead, but I ended up pursuing my masters in history. Social History, though. I'm University was frustrating because my marks did not reflect either my investment of time and energy and studying or my interest and my understanding of the curriculum and we Now that I've been diagnosed, I understand Betsy Furler 9:04 that you just weren't spitting back out what the professor was asking for. Or what do you think? Where was the disconnect? Wanda Deschamps 9:13 So the constant internal dialogue meant that there was something in the way of me processing the information. So I wasn't able to comprehend the information, as I say, in a way that truly reflected my investment of time, energy or my interest or my understanding of the curriculum. And then I was really doubting myself and the self doubt followed me throughout my whole life, so it pours didn't help but it only compounded the situation that even when I actually understood the content, I would tell myself because of these, these experiences that I had had So, University in a number of ways was a difficult time. It was also a great time, and that I was very involved in extracurricular activities. So that was fantastic. And I also met a number of great people, friends, some of whom I still in touch today. So what did I want to do that? I took a year Business College, I looked at a number of options. And I decided on Business College in Halifax, Nova Scotia, which is capital province, Nova Scotia where I'm from, and then I began working in the nonprofit sector starting in post secondary education and I'd always been passionate about learning which I already shared with you and, and knowledge and formal education, even though I always I did not always do well in that environment. So I began working at a university and alumni programming fundraising program and I really really enjoyed it. Betsy Furler 11:08 So where did the diner the dinosaurs come in? Wanda Deschamps 11:12 Not until almost 23 years later. So I began working I really began my career at the age of 2324. And I've worked in charitable sector the entire time, whether it being universities or in as a consultant. And I was not diagnosed until almost 47 Wow, wow. get to that I had a diagnosis. I was really struggling, um, by the time we hit end of 2016, and definitely by the beginning of 2017, I was really struggling. I had struggled before That we moved to Regina, Saskatchewan from Halifax, Nova Scotia and 2011 to 2015. And I had struggled there at times. But there are so many other things going on that I was able to manage cope slash, moving to denial that I pushed my own realities away. However, by the time we moved to Waterloo, as I say, end of 2016, particularly beginning of 2017, I just, I was headed into crisis and I really started to break down that March. And I had a full breakdown that may and I was in treatment by May. I had gone back into counseling around April and received her younger son's diagnosis in May of that year as well. And For another reason I had a pre scheduled doctor's appointment on May 25, the day after we received Rene's diagnosis on May 27. And I said to my physician, I would like a referral for a psychological assessment. I believe that I have autism too. Betsy Furler 13:20 I think it's called a parent parent diagnosis. Wanda Deschamps 13:27 I'm challenged using the word common because we are in such new territory here that the under diagnosis of females with autism, misdiagnosis with due to other mental health challenges that are brought on because individuals have not been diagnosed earlier. This is still frontier territory. So I don't really know what common is I know that we're seeing increasingly numbers of adults received diagnosis, particularly women. But this is such a thin pool that we're operating from. We really need, we really need to dig deeper into the research and the good news is that that's starting to happen. And more and more getting diagnosed Unknown Speaker 14:23 in adulthood, which is amazing. Yes. Betsy Furler 14:28 And not getting that. How did getting the diagnosis changed your life or what you were doing? Wanda Deschamps 14:35 I said to the psychologists that it was a relief. The diagnosis of of autism was a relief. I had convinced myself that I was stupid. So I had gone through my life thinking I was stupid. Ah, that's all was difficult was more difficult for me to believe that coming to the end of my time in Regina and finishing my master's however, I still I still fundamentally believe that, um, and she said today but you are good at math and I said no and I always thought it was because I was stupid. So the autism was a relief, but at the time I actually put the autism on the back burner, because at the same time, I was diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder, generalized anxiety and anxiety related to the autism. So I decided to enter PTSD treatment. So that was placed on the front burner because my issues there were more acute. I was, I was hyper vigilant. And we had concluded my therapist deny that The eye I movement therapy was the best approach for me so I had to take the time I had to get into the proper mindset for that therapy so that moved to the for the autism moved to the back. Betsy Furler 16:16 And how did after that treatment How did your career change or family life? You Wanda Deschamps 16:22 know, your day to day life? Oh, I say I living my life. I had never lived my life before. I we were into Betsy Furler 16:36 you are kind of pretending they're trying to be somebody else. Wanda Deschamps 16:40 Always trying to turn Oh, it's always holding back. Not not 100% sorry, not Yeah, I wasn't. I wasn't. I was holding back. I was not being 100% Wanda, but it's not like I was not one that at all. Um, but it was no 100% one now I am living my life as one that, um, things change though. Things change in my work environment, things had to change. I was no longer willing to tolerate certain behaviors the way I was being treated I, I said to someone, something I'd never said before I, I was always open to feedback and I have always been open to feedback. That is something that so many people have said about me. Um, however, it got to the point that I actually said to someone, if this is about changing wonder, that's difficult. My whole life I change, change, change, change, change, change. I called it acrobatics, and no, no God to the point that Wanda was going to be wonderful So I had to leave my work environment, and I became an entrepreneur. So in the work side, I am in business with myself and home and community and with my friends and my family I Sam living life is real Wanda. Betsy Furler 18:23 That's wonderful. Wanda Deschamps 18:24 It is wonderful. That's why I named my firm Liberty coat to signify that confronting the facts brings us freedom. So that's the part of this is one day. I'm not gonna change for every second person who says that I don't fit this or I'm not that or whatever. I'm gonna live by my own principles and my own values. And I'm the new so this new freedom that goes along with that which is incredible. And something I noticed is that when you increase your self esteem, and you are comfortable in your own skin, people treat you differently anyway. So once I started treating myself much better, I'd always had fabulous people in my life consistently. work, school community family, I've always had incredible, incredible people in my life. I didn't give them enough prominence. I let other a few other people always creep in because I didn't accept myself. So I always gave those few other people and there was always someone there's always a few people in every environment there always is, but I let them have way too much Say because I didn't accept myself fully so I don't do that anymore. And I give the prominence goes to all the incredible people who have always been with me and the incredible people I have met And I need it feels like daily. I need incredible new people. Betsy Furler 20:08 That's amazing. I think when you do it when you're true to yourself, people sense that and, and it just opens Wanda Deschamps 20:15 up the world. They do and I'm also more relaxed. I said to someone recently during an interview, I didn't accept myself. So I wasn't I was very self conscious. And I also was not comfortable meeting necessarily everyone in the way I want it to. I wanted to do data want to connect with all kinds of people. However, in some cases, I was held back and that was because I was so self conscious. And now that I'm more relaxed, I find that I met so many people from all kinds of different backgrounds, circumstances And I'm connecting with them in a deeper manner. It's not just superficial. Um, and so many people are sharing their stories and they want to be part of different movements and different initiatives that I engage with and it's fantastic. It really does snowball. Betsy Furler 21:26 And tell us a little bit about your company. Wanda Deschamps 21:30 Liberty CO, is a consultancy for nonprofit nonprofits who wish to expand or enhance or refine or renew their charitable giving something that I have branched off doing. Just as 2020 is that I launched a new division called women for women. And the line is meeting you, you where you are. So that's letter R, and it's about supporting other women. So one thing I found is that women have not always necessarily supportive other women as much as we might, as we might, as we might be able to, and in a way that could really take us further towards gender equality. So I was encouraged by a few people, they noticed by messaging, my social media content, sentence, level of my involvement was very female, positive and very inclusive. So they encouraged me to do something to really think about this in a more purposeful manner. So I launched women for women, ah, January 7, and the response has been over whelming I really can't believe that we're only well it will only be two weeks tomorrow. Wow. There's so many people connecting and it is it's really as simple as that. It's supporting other women. Um, in which you Every way shape or form that you'd like to that you feel someone needs support, someone tells you they need support. And it's grassroots and really taking off and it's the hashtag women for women. And I'm also working with a few other individuals through Liberty co promoting issues of importance to them. So an author, a former NHL lawyer, and now author and men's mental health advocate, Steve softail. I'm working with him and I am working with Emily O'Brien, who founded her business in prison while removing barriers to employment for formerly incarcerated individuals, and she sells popcorn kinds of kernels. So I'm working with those two individuals and very good fortune of working with them directly working with organizations through Liberty CO and explore Other partnerships just one other thing I'd like to share with you but Liberty CO is that I'm part of the movement to bring equity to the charitable sector. Charitable sector has actually locked equity even though we are female based in terms of number of employees, we have not seen equal representation at the leadership levels. And we have greatly through sexual harassment by donors, volunteers and leaders in the sector. So part of the movement I'm very pleased to say that started in Canada however, it did reach out to our good friends in the south. We had a national day of conversation November 22. And we are looking at our national day of conversation 2020 and it will be Canada and us and hopefully beyond and this is about bringing equity to the charitable sector. We call it in the names of US Senator bringing justice to charity. Betsy Furler 25:00 Very good. Well, I will definitely keep an eye up and I that ah, Wanda Deschamps 25:05 that'd be great. And of course we Betsy worked together in the inclusion revolution. Yeah. But yes, and that's about celebrating ability. There's no dis. It's about stability, and it's about everyone in the world being recognized for everything that they can contribute. Betsy Furler 25:30 Absolutely. Okay. I always say looking at strengths and differences as strengths. Wanda Deschamps 25:37 That is it. Betsy Furler 25:40 What if people want to connect with you? How can they what's the best way for them to connect with you on Wanda Deschamps 25:46 LinkedIn? I'm on weekly in a lot of my email addresses on my LinkedIn account. However, I will share it I wanted a shot Liberty code.ca starting to be Be more active on Instagram. However, LinkedIn is my platform of choice. And I'm would love to hear from you whether it's about the inclusion revolution men's mental health, equity in the charitable sector, or like what Emily's doing is really bringing previously underrepresented groups into full participation, whether it be in our workplace or our post secondary sector, or in the community or wherever people can be their best selves. Betsy Furler 26:42 Well, fantastic. Well, this was just a delight talking to you today. And all your information in the show notes. Unknown Speaker 26:51 Okay. Unknown Speaker 26:55 It's and so people can Betsy Furler 26:58 connect with you and I Just such so pleased that we had this conversation, I can't wait to see what you do in the future. Wanda Deschamps 27:06 Awesome i and i really do encourage people to say for people to reach out to me, I really, I'm really enjoying connecting with all kinds of new people and learning with and from each other and sharing information. And that's something that technology is really empowering. That is. Betsy Furler 27:31 Well, thank you so much, and have a wonderful day. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to us on. If you'd like to know more about what we do and our software that helps employer support their employees with ADHD dyslexia, learning differently. As an autism, please go to www dot for all abilities calm. You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler episode Frank, you are LR Have a great day and we will see you soon.
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Nine - Sheri Byrne-Haber - Digital and Workplace Accessibility In this episode, I interview Sheri Byrne-Haber - Senior Accessibility Evangelist. On the podcast, Sheri talks about her disabling and living as a person of determination. We discuss her career and the importance of digital accessibility. To connect with Sheri, please follow her on LinkedIn (Sheri Byrne-Haber) or read her blog at sheribyrnehaber.com. Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:08 Hi, thanks for listening to the For All Abilities podcast today. I have a special guest with me today Sheri Byrne-Haber And Sheri could you just introduce yourself to our audience and I hope I pronounced your name correctly. Sheri Byrne-Haber 0:24 It's burn haber, but it's really easy to get wrong. So I'm Sheri Byrne-Haber. I am currently the head of accessibility for VMware, which is I like to describe as the largest software company that most people have never heard of. We have I think, 29,000 employees and we're mostly owned by Dell, which people heard of. I have degrees in computer science, law and business and I've been working exclusively in the disability related area for about 15 years and For the last eight years, I've largely been focusing on digital accessibility. Betsy Furler 1:05 Awesome. Well, let's start this conversation. I like to ask people what they were like when they were a child. And so can you tell us a little bit about what you were like when you were a little girl and how that influenced the professional that you are today? Sheri Byrne-Haber 1:23 Sure, so I have a congenital mobility issue. I was born with clubbed feet and caifa scoliosis. And when I was a little girl that was about 25 years before the Americans with Disabilities Act was passed. So my childhood was pretty complicated. I've spent about 15% of my life in casts, either resulting from fractures or recovering from surgery. And when there were no curb cuts. That was a problem. You know, my mom's five foot nothing, so she couldn't take me to grocery store in my wheelchair with her For example, Yeah, wow, what? how different it was, it was really different. You know, I couldn't go to the movie theater with my friends. You know, I got scheduled for second story classes in high school with no elevator. The captain of the football team had to carry me up the stairs to get my diploma in middle school. Wow. So there are certain events like that, that really stick out in my mind that when you mention it to people that are less than, say, 35 they're like, that was legal. Betsy Furler 2:33 Right. And, you know, the scary thing about that, though, is even though it's shocking to hear that, you know, then I think back to my son who's 21. So when he was in middle school that was only nine ish years ago. And he was in a wheelchair for one of those years. And while they had an elevator, it didn't work most the time. Sheri Byrne-Haber 2:58 I litterally experienced That like two days ago, I was got to a retail store in a strip mall. And it was raised on a platform. So there were stairs to all the places and then in the corner there was, you know, one of those little retrofitted wheelchair lifts. And they couldn't find the key. And then the woman's even if we could find the key, it's probably broken. Seriously. This is a 2020. Lady. Betsy Furler 3:26 Right. And we went to about four years ago, we got this amazing opportunity to go to New York City with friend and her mom, and she's in a wheelchair. And the trying to get around New York City was much more difficult in the wheelchair than I ever expected it to be. Yeah. The things that we that you don't think of if you're not in the wheelchair. Sheri Byrne-Haber 3:57 There was a story that broke my heart. About a year ago about a young mother who died when she broke her neck she fell down the stairs in the subway system because she was trying to drag her kid up in a stroller. And you know, I think something I have a friend who works in accessibility and the New York Public transit system something only like 25% of the subway system in New York has a has elevators so but yeah, yeah, we just percent is unusable. The taxis don't like to stop for people in wheelchairs. I mean, I literally live in lift and Uber when I'm in New York, but I and I'm in New York a lot because that's where my mother in law lives. But there's really a certain level of privilege that's involved with that I can afford lifted. Right and and I feel pretty bad for the people who, you know, don't have those luxuries and are stuck with the default system that's presented for people with no money. Betsy Furler 5:00 so you encountered quite a few probably mobility challenges, Sheri Byrne-Haber 5:09 I guess for better lack of a better word when you're growing up as far as not being able to go to events and things like that because of mobility. What about college? college? I was so lucky. I live in the Bay Area. So I started college in Let me see 1980 I think, and I the only college I applied to was Cal. And because I knew that Cal was Roberts and Ed Roberts would have been at one yesterday it was actually Ed Roberts day so god bless you Ed Roberts, because without him, I might not have gone to college. And instead, you know, I've done 11 years of college so far I my family jokes, I do a degree every 10 years. My original degrees in computer science. I did software testing for a long time. Then I decided I wanted to go to law school practice law for a while, decided I didn't like lawyers, went back and did an MBA. And I'm currently working on a PhD in public policy. Wow. Betsy Furler 6:18 Wow. So you, you excelled? academically? Sheri Byrne-Haber 6:22 I loved to learn and part of it was that I was just steered naturally towards that because of my lack of ability to do physical stuff. Betsy Furler 6:31 Right, right. So how did you get into the world of accessibility? Sheri Byrne-Haber 6:38 So, I'm about 15 years ago, I was an advocate for the Deaf. So if you Google my name, you'll see a lot of things associated with insurance appeals and cochlear implants and things like that. So I did some contested special education plans for children who are deaf and a few children with autism. And I sued insurance companies for failing to provide adequate coverage to people who are deaf. They were being turned down for hearing aids. They were being told one cochlear implant is good enough. You don't need to hear out of the other side. Right. First total BS. Betsy Furler 7:14 Right as a speech pathologist i that is I feel Sheri Byrne-Haber 7:20 Its like that was just yesterday, actually, that there were so many issues with getting hearing aids covered by insurance. I mean, I still think it's there's quite a gap in that area. But there is a lot of it is because the difference between self insured plans and traditionally insured plans. So fully insured plans get to go to the insurance commissioner get to use state law, self insured plans with which bigger companies tend to have don't. So there's still a third of the people in the US who are on self insured plans that can't avail themselves of state laws mandating hearing aid coverage, but I did get united healthcare, to start Covering hearing aids, and I got all the insurers in the US to start covering bilateral cochlear implant. That's Betsy Furler 8:08 amazing. Sheri Byrne-Haber 8:10 So after I put myself out of business with that, and my personal motivation for doing that was because of my own daughters hearing loss. I thought what can I do that ties my passion for disabilities in with the computer science degree that I originally had. And accessibility was just starting to take off then that was maybe a couple of years after the target lawsuit had been resolved. And that's how I got into digital accessibility. And I've been doing that ever since. Betsy Furler 8:43 That's great. Tell us about your what your workday looks like as far as what accommodations do you use?How does all of that personally affect you? Sheri Byrne-Haber 8:58 So my accommodations I have glaucoma, I've had both of my lens. Inside my eyes. I do use magnification. And I use a screen reader sometimes for things that can't be magnified. Which is good because like when I had my last eye surgery I couldn't see for three weeks. And if I hadn't been able to use the screen reader, I would have been completely hosed. So it was it was quite fortunate. All the buildings that I worked in are pre ADA. They've all been retrofitted. So VMware has an enormous campus in Palo Alto. They all have elevators, but I've been working with our facilities department to do a few other things like reorganizing the kitchen so I can reach the coffee from my wheelchair, and right and changing a few things in the cafeteria. You know, it's little stuff like that, but the little stuff, they're kind of like micro aggressions, they really start to add up for our After a while, and so being able to fix a few small things definitely helps my stress levels at work. Right. Right and, and makes you able to do things for yourself. instead of always having to ask somebody else Hey, can you grab that? Everybody? Everybody thinks, Oh, just ask people always will want to help you. And it's like, Yeah, but I don't always have, you know, I don't want to ask necessarily don't want people, right. Sorry. For me, this is not a pity party. Right. Betsy Furler 10:30 Right. that's one of the things about accommodations that I think is so important for employers to think about is that it's not it's not that people don't want to help you or, or you don't want help. It's that we all deserve to be able to do things on our own time and be able to use our strengths rather than having to waste even if it's 30 seconds. Getting somebody else in that kitchen with you to grab that mug for you. Right? But Sheri Byrne-Haber 11:05 it's 30 seconds 20 times a day. Exactly right. You know, and then you're starting to you're starting to talk about, you know, real mindshare about things you have to think about. And real time in the end, you know, first in the country, the country that's made the most accommodations in, say the last two years is the United Arab Emirates. And they took the phrase people with disabilities and changed it to people of determination. Betsy Furler 11:34 As I've read that, that's so beautiful. Sheri Byrne-Haber 11:37 I absolutely adore it because I don't think there's any phrase better to describe me than a determined person. Yes. And and so I really love that. Betsy Furler 11:48 Yes, that's so great. And but you're right about the the amount of time that having to for instance, having to look for the curb cut or what For the one elevator that works, cannot just it's frustrating and it's literally a time waster. But you also have a lot of mental energy. Sheri Byrne-Haber 12:12 Yeah, it's mental energy. But let me tell you another story. So I used to work in San Francisco. And you know, wanting to be environmentally friendly. I used to drive to the San Bruno BART station and then I would take verda to the city. Well, first of all the elevators in the BART system are all more than 50 years old, their original the company's gone out of business, when they need parts they have to be like custom crafted and it takes them three months to get the replacement part. So when it all later goes down, it's it's frequently down for three months. Why and the thing is, they only tell you when the elevators in the station are broken. They don't tell you when the elevators in the garage are broken. And so I had so many fights with them because I would get to the BART station and I couldn't get I would get to the parking garage. And then I wouldn't be able to the station because I couldn't get out of the parking garage. And I finally gave up and and decided to drive into the city every day. And so I refer to that as as a disability tax. There's just so many things that people with disabilities actually have to pay for, in either time, energy or money or sometimes all three, that people without disabilities don't even think about. Betsy Furler 13:27 Right, right. And then it also gets into the how privileged are you and can you afford those things based on time, energy and money? Right, so I Sheri Byrne-Haber 13:39 have three degrees I am reasonably well paid and so forth. You can write but I had parents who fought for me before idea and IEP existed for a long time they went to the school board meetings, they harassed my teachers, right? They were really, really proactive, you know, and they spoke English. And they were well educated. Betsy Furler 14:01 Right? Right, Sheri Byrne-Haber 14:03 which is one of the reasons why I went into advocacy for the death because I realized how many things I lost out on as a kid, even with that advocacy. And I got everything that my daughter needed. She She has significant hearing loss to be successful. She's doing a PhD in audiology right now. And I was a lawyer and I speaking English is my native language and so many people out there don't have that privilege. And so I fought for those kids. Because I one for my own. Haha. That's incredible. So tell us tell my audience a little bit about digital accessibility, just kind of like a, you know, a summary the background behind it. And really just anything you want to say about that. I I think that there probably many people in my audience that don't know much about digital accessibility. Sure. So my sound bite for digital accessibility is that you know, Stephen Hawking if he were still alive, wouldn't need to be able to use makes digital accessibility is about making things work for any disability or any combination of disabilities, because you never know that somebody is going to have Parkinson's and epilepsy, for example. There, there could be any combination. So people with disabilities sometimes use what we call assistive technology. If you've ever done pinch to zoom on your phone, Congratulations, you've used assistive technology, that that's a magnification tool to interface between themselves and the software, either a website or an app usually. So it does take something that you can't do or perceive and turns it into something that you can do or perceive. So for example, people with vision loss us back to vacation, people with who are completely legally blind because vision loss is on a spectrum, right frequently use something called Screen readers and screen readers are usually built into the operating systems but not always. And they take the visuals on the web page, and they converted into sound. for the, for the blind user, people who are deaf use closed captioning. So that one's really straightforward. But if you don't do the right coding on the web page or the mobile app, for example, if you leave out descriptions of pictures, even though the screen reader might nominally work, the content won't be equivalent to somebody who's blind because you're not describing the pictures. You know, I have a map app, for example, like, I don't want to name names, but just say a ride sharing app that's got maps, you have to have a text equivalent of that map for people who are blind because they're not going to be able to look at the map and go, Oh, that taxi is closest. Right, right. And then people who don't have good Hands control will use something called a switch. Sometimes people have carpal tunnel can't use mice, so they use a keyboard in order to be completely digitally accessible. You have to work with a keyboard, you can't require a mouse or touch because you can't assume that somebody can actually reach out and touch the device. They may have it fixed frame attached to their wheelchair that may be their care provider up there for them. voice control is another good one that's starting to get more and more advanced AI recognition of speech with varying different accents. So that's a few examples of assistive technology. There's a set of guidelines called WC Ag and they stand for Web Content Accessibility Guidelines. And if you are following the guidelines that are in version 2.1 level, double A which is just a fancy way of saying The three levels a double A and triple A double A is the middle level. That's the standard that most courts and the government systems use to determine whether or not something accessible. So 50 rules, you follow the rules, you're probably good to go if you're breaking any of the rules, depending on how important you're either making something hard for somebody with a disability or you're completely blocking them altogether from using your website or mobile app. Betsy Furler 18:27 Yes, great explanation. Thank you. Yeah, for going through all that, and I think digital accessibility is becoming a bigger and bigger deal. As as each year passes, Sheri Byrne-Haber 18:42 especially in California, so California, January 1 2020, the ccpa just kicked in the California Consumer Protection Act, and there are actually references in there to accessibility. So all the court cases in California have come out with Pro accessibility, this is largely honestly been lost driven. The rules for the government procurement, which is called section five away have existed for 16 years. But they largely weren't enforced. The government continued to procure inaccessible software, despite the rules saying that they couldn't. And so people with disabilities got fed up and started filing lawsuits. And they're winning 98% of the lawsuits. And the 2% that are losing aren't losing because they have bad cases, they're largely losing because they don't have great lawyers. So there were 2300 lawsuits filed in 2019, and also in 2018. So this is a problem. That's not going to go away until people start getting the message that if the rules apply to them, either through state law or federal law, that they have to make their websites accessible, Betsy Furler 19:55 right, and it's it really excludes a large Number of the population when companies don't have an accessible website, so I think many companies I, I, I also have a software that helps employers support their employees with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism, really lots of other disabilities as well or conditions as well. But that's kind of the focus of it. And so many companies so many business people have said to me, Oh, we don't have any, any, any employees with disabilities, or like, we don't have any customers with disabilities or Well, I was about to say some things. Some companies will try to say we don't have any customers with disabilities, it's like, yes. Sheri Byrne-Haber 20:43 Well, or no, you don't, it's a catch 22 Betsy Furler 20:46 or maybe you don't because they can't get into your get onto your website and use it. Sheri Byrne-Haber 20:50 Exactly. And, and you know, you you think about going like, let's say I'm a Product Owner, and I go to the the general manager of the company. And I say, hey, I've got this great idea, but we're going to block 18% of our customers for being able to use it. Yeah. But imagine actually trying to present that to a decision maker the night that you were out of your mind. But that's exactly what happens when people with disabilities can't access software. Anything that goes out to in today's day and age, that's not digitally accessible. That's not following the guidelines in what CAG 2.1 level double A is automatically blocking 18% of their potential audience. Betsy Furler 21:33 Right. And I would, I would say that's a minimal minimum, because then there are people out there who aren't aren't counted in the numbers precisely. Sheri Byrne-Haber 21:44 That's a census number, the actual rate much higher. If Betsy Furler 21:48 I say disability,Oh, go ahead. Sheri Byrne-Haber 21:51 I was just gonna say the estimate globally ranges between 15 and 20%. Depending on you know, the country that you're in haha Developed Countries typically have higher rates of disability, because of better health care, you know, they're right there saving people, but the people who are saved in the healthcare system potentially have disabilities going forward. Betsy Furler 22:14 Right? And disability is the only minority group that we're all going to be a member of, if we Sheri Byrne-Haber 22:19 exactly I tell people in my introduction to accessibility class, there are two groups of people, people who are disabled and people who are going to be disabled. Right, Betsy Furler 22:29 right. And especially when you look into I'm very into cognitive disabilities and cognitive accessibility as well. And that incorporates really everyone at one time in their life or the other has brain fog or has had an illness that decreases their cognitive ability or their cognitive acuity at the moment. And it's so important with our world being so digital now. That that people are able to access the information and I mean, that's our whole life is digital now. Sheri Byrne-Haber 23:07 So there's an update coming to WC ag that specifically for cognitive disabilities. It's called the Kocha task force or Kocha. TF is sometimes how it's abbreviated. And I'm hoping that the coca updates will be coming with the next update in WC AG, which is 2.2, which is coming in November. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I haven't heard anything official yet. So two point 10 progress. hoga is in progress. Hopefully they'll converge. That would be great. Yeah. Betsy Furler 23:39 Um, well, if members of my audience would like to connect with you or get more information from you, how can they find you? Sheri Byrne-Haber 23:47 So I have a pretty extensive medium blog, I blog on accessibility and disability related issues. I try to do it twice a week. And so you just need to know how to spell my last name which is b y r and E hyphen h a b like boy er I'm the only burn haters on the planet are either me or my children are hard to figure out which one is me and you can I have sheribyrnehaber.com is my fully accessible blog where I transfer all of my medium articles over to medium is kind of sort of accessible. Sherihaberbyrne.com is completely accessible. Betsy Furler 24:29 Awesome and any spell Sherry with an eye correct. Aaron and I Sheri Byrne-Haber 24:34 the the most obscure of the 14 Spelling's my parents could have possibly Betsy Furler 24:42 well, awesome. Well, I am so glad that we connected and that you agree to be on the podcast today. This is fantastic. And thanks so much. And I'm sure my audience will be connecting with you. Sheri Byrne-Haber 24:57 That sounds great. Feel free to Reach out. I always love to talk to people who are as excited about this field as I am. Or Kristen and joining the field. I've written several articles for people about how to get into accessibility. Betsy Furler 25:12 Oh, that is fantastic. Yeah, I might. I'm going to try to link one of those in the show notes. Sheri Byrne-Haber 25:18 I'll send you a link. Perfect. Betsy Furler 25:21 Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Thanks for having me here. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
For All Abilities – The Podcast Warda Farah - Digital and Workplace Accessibility In this episode, I interview Warda Farah- Speech Language Therapist. On the podcast, Warda talks about her ongoing diagnosis and living and working with neuro diversity. We discuss her career as a speech language therapist. To connect with Warda, please follow her on LinkedIn (Warda Farah) or email her at enquiry@languagewaves.co.uk. Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome to for all abilities the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Have a listen to for all abilities, the podcast and please subscribe on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Hi, everybody, welcome to the for all abilities podcast. Today I have a special guest warda Farah, and she is a speech therapist in the London area she was diagnosed or as she's actually in the process of being diagnosed with ADHD. So she's another person who was diagnosed later in life. So I can't wait to hear more about her story. So please, let's all Welcome warda to the for all abilities podcast. Hey warda thank you so much for joining me today. Warda Farrah 1:07 Hi, Betsy. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to talk to you. Betsy Furler 1:12 Awesome. Well tell us give us a little introduction. Warda Farrah 1:16 You're so I'm so I'm a speech and language therapist. I've been doing niche for about five years now. I've recently set up my own independent practice, which is called language waves. And so that's what I want. That's what I've been doing. Previously, I used to work in the NHS, which is kind of I don't know if you've got an American equivalent for it, but it's just a national health service. And so but now I work in private practice. Betsy Furler 1:44 So I'm I've always loved doing private practice as well as a speech pathologist. So that's great. Yeah, it's it gives you so much more freedom in many, many ways. Warda Farrah 1:53 Yeah, flex and scope to do things as you see fit rather than what's prescribed and The lines that you should work in. Yes, Betsy Furler 2:02 exactly. So I would love to hear a little bit about what you were like as a little girl and what school was like for you. Warda Farrah 2:11 I mean, it's a really interesting story because as, as, as a as a young child, I was in a problematic child, I was probably shy, quiet. Did did pretty well in school. But I could never finish homework, I could never start homework. And so I used to wake up really early in the morning to do my homework, because I wouldn't do it the night before. And that used to get me into trouble. So a lot of my early kind of reports or parent evening reports would say, has ability or has potential, but doesn't apply herself or is very, is highly gifted, but doesn't apply herself. And so I went through Lot of that in primary school. I don't know, I just always used to feel a lack of motivation. So not wanting to be at school, not wanting to do tasks, not finding them particularly interesting, switching off being chatty, but because I was quite academic or, you know, a quite bright child, I could always complete my schoolwork for the teacher, so it was kind of a mismatch profile. Betsy Furler 3:36 And it sounds like you were well behaved so you weren't the typical, hyperactive type of child. No, I'd Warda Farrah 3:44 be kind of a quiet child, but I do kind of kind of get away with things because the teachers weren't looking at me. I could get I could get away so it's not that I wasn't as naughty as the other children or as hyperactive as that. But the way that I would do it was quite in a controlled manner. Betsy Furler 4:06 Kind of daydreaming shut down. Warda Farrah 4:07 Yeah. Lots of fidget, sitting with my pen, lots of kicking under the table. Lots of just doodling. And that's how I kind of got it out and lots of chatting. Yes, Betsy Furler 4:19 we're good. It's inherently a speech therapist. It's interesting because I did a previous interview with a woman named amber Holly she's a therapist, marriage and family therapist and, and she had a kind of a similar profile as a young child. She was also diagnosed later in life. And it's interesting to talk to women who as girls really weren't identified because it seems like even in 2020, that it's the behavior that usually gets eyes on to the problem. Warda Farrah 5:00 I think nobody could even I think, because now was it as a speech language therapist and having so much experience with different children and seeing different profiles. Even I at the time knew something wasn't right. But I always thought I was lazy. Uh huh. The why. So the reason why I don't, you know, do things as I should is maybe I'm lazy, I look for shortcuts. I get bored easily. So the topic wasn't interesting to me. So for me, it was I was always trying to figure out exactly what it was it was only maybe a few years ago, when I kind of looked looked kind of at myself, let's stop looking at the children I was working with and looked at myself and looked at my profile and I saw another really mismatch type of profile, where I'm really gifted in some areas, but struggle with kind of basic tasks or basic kind of function. So what's, what's that out? Betsy Furler 5:53 So when I think the procrastination is really interesting to me, because I've heard from several other people that home Mark is such an issue. And I think frequently when our kids don't want to do homework, we're annoyed with them. We feel like they just don't want to do it. They want to do something else. And I think sometimes that procrastination comes out in that homework piece when you're when you're little. Warda Farrah 6:19 It but what I noticed is that I say for example, it was a simple comprehension exercise or, or an essay. I could never get ready to start it. But if you gave me a different type of project, something I was really, really interested in. I could work on it all day and all night and all week and all month. So was for me, I was always trying to figure out why do I have periods where with some things, I can just immerse myself in them, complete them and totally do it. And with these simple kind of things, I just can't stop them. I can't stop them. And I will only Start them when there is this time pressure, Betsy Furler 7:03 right? When you have free Warda Farrah 7:04 will. And then it's extremely stressful because you're always doing things at the last minute. And when you do things at the last minute, you know, it's not a real representation of your ability. So you always kind of feel bad, like you haven't done you the best that you can do. Betsy Furler 7:20 Right, right. And then that guilt kind of, kind of Yeah, why? Warda Farrah 7:23 You know, why? Why am I so lazy? Why can't I do it? Why can everybody else focus? And just get it done? Why what, how can they just kind of kick their fingers and be able to do it, and for me, it I have to go around the long way around, and it might take me hours or days or weeks before I start a task which might not actually even take that long. Betsy Furler 7:45 Great, right? So you must have done fairly well in school because you did end up going to university and then graduate school. So tell us a little bit about that process. Warda Farrah 7:57 So So what We would call secondary school which is kind of like high school. I started off kind of being a promising student but just I don't know what it was a lack of motivation it I left with a few seeds and a few bees. So I didn't do very well there. And because it took me so long to figure out what I wanted to do, instead of going straight into going straight to college, I did a few different jobs realized it wasn't for me. So I took a bit of a bit of a detour before I actually decided to go to university that a little bit longer. Betsy Furler 8:39 exactly the same as Amber, the other woman that I've interviewed. It's so interesting. You the two of you have followed a very similar path. Warda Farrah 8:49 Yeah, it just took it to where everybody at 18 will know will everybody at 16 knew what they wanted to do and had a plan. I did not have a plan. Right. So and it was what am I? What am I going to do with my life? And I thought, because I was quite, I wouldn't say I'd say quite. I loved education and learning, but just not at school. So I was trying to figure out what would I love to immerse myself and what would I love to know more about and I thought, you know what, I would like to work with children. So worked and worked in childcare and did that and then kind of saw that, actually, for me to ever kind of move up and do well in a career. I need to get kind of my academics done, so I'd have to go to university, I'd have to get that grade to show people that I am capable. That makes sense, Betsy Furler 9:45 right? Because you probably loved working with the kids and were great with it. But you knew you didn't want to be a childcare provider your entire life. Warda Farrah 9:53 No, I wanted to do I wanted to do more. Right. It just seemed that the opportunities were not there. If you don't have a degree or people that really kind of didn't take you as seriously or you have to go through many more hurdles to prove that you're smart, or the only reason that you didn't go to university is because you didn't want to go. Betsy Furler 10:14 Rice. Warda Farrah 10:17 It was a it was a, it was a tough, it was a tough thing for me, but also it's kind of like a maturity thing. It felt like it took me longer to mature than others. Uh huh. So by the time I was at university, and I was older than some of my peers, that was the right time for me to figure out exactly what I wanted to do in life. Right. Betsy Furler 10:40 So then he went back, how old were you when you went back to school? That was about 20. Okay, so not too not too much of a delay to a few years. If he Warda Farrah 10:51 is he a few years, but I mean, it's cool. Yeah, that bit of a delay, Betsy Furler 10:57 Ray, but I think it is, it's hard for a A lot of 16 year olds to know what they want to do when you have to choose so young. That's, that's a lot to expect someone to do. Warda Farrah 11:10 Yeah, but, and it is a lot to expect. But like I said, All my peers, all my friends, you know, they're not they even if they didn't know what they wanted to do, they kind of fell in line and just did it. Whereas I was kind of like, I don't want to do it, so I'm not gonna do it. Betsy Furler 11:26 Right, right. And I think that's what happens a lot. I know that's what happened to me. I went to college, you know, graduated from high school, went directly to college and studied psychology and sociology and religion. And then after I graduated, and decided, Oh, I think I need to get a grad school also, that's when I found communication disorders. So, once you went back to school, did you find it that you were procrastinating less that it was easier for you because of the maturity or how did that go? Warda Farrah 11:59 Um, it Was it in a weird way on the surface, it didn't look like it was difficult for me. But under the surface, it was it was it was quite hard for me because now I had found something I wanted to do. And I wanted to excel in it, and I and I was interested. But that would be kind of issues with the motivation. So I I'd fall into the same traps again, and completing assignments. Not late but the night before. Right? I just not learning from it. And even even to the point where when I handed in my thesis will equal a thesis and we call it a dissertation over here. It was, you know, I had I had completed it on the day that it was supposed to be in. So even though Right, right, finishing, I still couldn't do it. You know, I did it in time. I couldn't you know, I had months to do it. Betsy Furler 12:56 Right, right. So it was still it was still a challenge. What about When you got out out of school and started working, Warda Farrah 13:04 and when I got out of school and I started working it was, I mean, it was it. It was fine. It was fine because I've always been able to, because I'm a person who does last things last minute, I'm quite flexible. And because I'm flexible, I'm able to adapt, which is great when you're working with people, children, or when things don't go well or they don't follow a particular timeframe. So working with people, the actual physical act of doing things that that just comes that just came naturally to me, I could do that. And that was not a problem. But it was always kind of the now I've got to write a report. Betsy Furler 13:45 Right, right, which is for the people in the audience who aren't in the speech therapy or other therapy world we have a lot of we have some daily paperwork and then we have to write these evaluation reports which can be very good difficult to get motivated to write? Yeah, Warda Farrah 14:04 yeah. It's very difficult to get motivated to do but because for me, I understand the importance of it. It was just one of those things that you have to do it. You have, you have to do it. Betsy Furler 14:16 So, so you just pushed through and and Warda Farrah 14:20 just just pushed through but hated it. Betsy Furler 14:23 Right, right. So when did you decide that you wanted to go through testing or however you're going about getting a diagnosis? Warda Farrah 14:32 Well, well, what happened is so for a number of years, I always thought what's, what's this all about? Or, for example, one example where if, say, for example, it was time to study for a test. I couldn't do it by myself. I'd need to have the study group. Aha, I could never I could never just kind of sit by myself and do it. I get bored really easily. I'd switch off. I you know, and then I do the last minute, type crumbing thing. So sorry, what was the question again? Why did you decide to pursue a diagnosis? What kind of how are you going around that about that? Well, because I, because I had kind of noticed that hey, actually, what I'm going through isn't typical. Uh huh. It was it was kind of when when I kind of realized that and I thought Actually, I'm putting in a lot of effort, a lot of hard work. I always feel like I'm not reaching my full potential. I always feel like, in some ways, I'm missing the mark. I'm, I'm, you know, I've got 10 different projects I'm doing. I'm doing this I'm doing this. I'm part of this club and pop that and everybody thinks I am balancing things really well. People think I'm an overachiever, a high achiever. I'm always doing something new. I'm always on the go. of always, but for me, it's like I just wanted to know, you know, These kinds of two facets of my personality where I'm on the go and overachieving and doing lots, but then there's this other side where it's not able to prioritize not able to focus. You know, always losing things for me was such a mismatch that I thought something's not right. Betsy Furler 16:22 Right. I think that takes so much insight to be able to see that in yourself and realize, wait a minute, I you know, maybe there's something else maybe it's not just me being lazy or me. Yeah. Not being as smart as everyone else. I think that takes so much insight to be able to, to, to see that and then go forward and do something about it. So I applaud you for doing that. And really taking really taking care of yourself. Warda Farrah 16:54 Yeah, I mean, for me, it was it was it was a really tough thing because it's, you know, something I always knew as a child, something's a little bit different, but I could just never say what it was. And I could, I could never articulate it. And whenever I have tried to talk to other people about it, it's always kind of No, no, but that's just you. That's just you. And so when you try to be really vulnerable and honest and not making an excuse for, you know, your behavior, why you are the way you are, you just want to kind of express yourself and explain it to somebody else. And they say, No, no, but that's just you. You're just last minute. No, but you're always losing things or new, you're just a bit clumsy. That's what you need to pay more attention. Right? Right. You need to you need to write a list, or, you know, keep your diary or keep your keys in one place. And people don't understand that. I've done a lot of that. Right. Betsy Furler 17:54 That's what I say about like work accommodations is so you know, sometimes it's not that the person doesn't know Know what's available, you know, I use Microsoft OneNote as an example all the time, you may know Microsoft OneNote is available, but to know how to use it to help your specific need, and to use it in a targeted way, when you have a brain that works differently, is very challenging. Like it's just not it's not as simple as someone who's very organized and very focused to go, Oh, yeah, just use Microsoft OneNote I'm using it and it's just fine. It's like no, people's brains work in different ways. So it's Yes, it's easy for someone to say keep your keys in that one spot. But to actually execute that when you have ADHD or other forms of neuro diversity is really difficult. It's a battle it's it's a constant fight with yourself because you just want to be better not want to be able to function like everybody else and you want to Warda Farrah 18:59 not have to think so. deeply about things that other people take for granted, Betsy Furler 19:03 right? It takes a lot of energy. It's a lot of energy. Warda Farrah 19:06 So before before the day is up, I've used a lot of my energy coins, just by functioning. Like really simple things. Like if I'm really not paying attention, like the other day, I've got the wrong bus. Betsy Furler 19:19 Right, right. I mean, Warda Farrah 19:20 it sounds so silly. Just look at the number on the bus. Right? But if it's a perfect storm, if I'm tired, if I'm that my all of my energy's gone, and I'm not, you know, I'm just not in the right headspace. I will make mistakes like that and quite, you know, quite silly mistakes that other people necessarily weren't really make. Betsy Furler 19:43 Right? Warda Farrah 19:44 So for me, it was a lot of, you know, as a speech language therapists, we always talk to young people or adults about strategies. Uh huh. You know, us you know, that, you know, if you know if somebody's got aphasia or something else so you You have to kind of get used to a new way of doing things or because you know that you might have a deficit in this area, you need to kind of use new strategies, right for me. Yes, I have diaries. Yes, I write things down on my phone. Yes, I tried to keep keys in one place. But it's if I if I don't constantly do it, everything can just mess up just one day, one day. And all of that hard work can just mess up through through no fault of my own now, through no fault, but it just happens. Betsy Furler 20:37 Right in the it's a domino effect that spreads over lots of different areas of your life. So how did you go about the actual testing? How does that work? Warda Farrah 20:52 I mean, I don't know how it is for everybody else because for me, this has been quite a private thing and not many people know about it. Uh huh. So, but I went to, so it's a your GP so your, your, your family doctor, right. And so he's the one that can send you off for a referral to kind of a site team, etc to do to do further testing. And so because it's on the NHS, it can, it takes a really long time. But also the issue that I found is because I've, you know, done well in life, right? It's kind of hard for somebody to believe you've got these problems, because whenever you say, Well, yeah, I've had difficulty with this. And they say, Well, you've got undergraduates degree, you've got a Master's, you went through school, you have your own business, right? What's the problem? So they, it was kind of the discussion that I had was they, in my personal experience is more of a it's a mental health issue. Maybe you've got something else but depression or, or, or other. You know, that Going for other things, as opposed to believing that it's ADHD. Betsy Furler 22:06 Yes, yes, I must have been hard. Yeah. How? Where are you in the process right now? Warda Farrah 22:13 So I've been referred to the psychologist, so I'm waiting to actually do the testing for that. Betsy Furler 22:22 So you're How much longer do you think it'll take? Warda Farrah 22:26 I, at the moment, I think a couple more months to get to get the full diagnosis, because I think things run a bit slower over here. If I went private, and I had kind of paid privately I could have, you know, got it done rather quickly as well. Right. Betsy Furler 22:43 But it takes longer to get it through three any government, right? Yes, yes. But it's very expensive. So it's nice that you can get it that way. Warda Farrah 22:55 Yeah, I mean, I think it's it I think it's worth doing it. That one You're in a particular rush to get the diagnosis, then I'd say go private. But if you're not in a rush, and you're just doing it for yourself, then you can do it. You know, I know I've lived with this forever. So nice. Waiting a few more months for the diagnosis doesn't doesn't matter to me. And to be honest with you. Getting a diagnosis wasn't that important to me, but it's just when I realized, actually, it will kind of put my mind at ease, because it will kind of make me feel like Yeah, you are right. Betsy Furler 23:33 Right, that I was about to ask you. What do you think the diagnosis, what do you think the difference a diagnosis will make? Warda Farrah 23:40 I mean, it will just it will put my mind at rest because, like, Well, actually, you're not just, you know, a hypochondriac. You're not just imagining all of this in your head, and having that kind of validation from another professional. It just, it just kind of even if I don't disclose, even if I choose Not to disclose it to anybody. It's validation from somebody else. Betsy Furler 24:04 Right. Internal validation. Yeah, yeah, I think I think that makes complete sense. And then you can start thinking of the way you think in that different way. So you're not expecting yourself to be doing everything in this, you know, imaginary norm. Warda Farrah 24:24 And I think it'll be acceptance for me. I think I think it will be a bit of acceptance and understanding for myself. So right now it's all kind of like a hypothesis or not, but I know it is. But it's just having that is just that. Betsy Furler 24:40 Yes, I think I think you're doing the right thing. And like I said, I I applaud you for taking care of yourself. I think it is very easy for us especially as women I know men do it too. But especially women, we have a tendency to, to put our own needs on the back burner and take care of everybody else. Warda Farrah 25:00 Yeah, and I think for me one of the other thing that made me want to go ahead with it is I work with children every day that have different needs and I you know, whenever they come to me they're not feeling confident about themselves or they feel you know that they're stupid or not worth much or the self esteem is really low or they've you know, they've got autism or different types of communication difficulties, I always tell them to you know, that this label doesn't define you be, you know, you be who you are, you be who you want to be. It doesn't matter that you have to have speech and language therapy. But for my own self, I was quite embarrassed and ashamed. Betsy Furler 25:37 Right, and that, that's the purpose of my podcast is because I had so many people come to me, adults, with neuro diversity. Families of kids, kids themselves saying, I don't want anyone to know that I have ADHD or dyslexia and autism or learning difference or I don't want anyone to know that my kids have it. I don't want it. You know, it. I was like, there's so much stigma still, I kind of kept summarizing me and I'm not, we got to do, we've got to do something and show the world, the amazing things that people with neuro diverse conditions are doing because our world needs everyone to think differently if we all thought the same women have a very interesting or productive world now. But also unfortunately, that stigma does exist. So for me, I realized it's so easy for me to tell these children or tell these parents, don't worry, it will be fine. You be you be your authentic self, and I couldn't do it. Warda Farrah 26:37 Right. And so for me, it's actually I caught I caught up with these children and say all of that stuff, but really not mean it. So for me, it's kind of even having this discussion with you. It's kind of a bit. I don't want to talk about something like this, but also, you know, what is I think it's a first step. Yes, me? Betsy Furler 26:59 Yes. And I think will help so many people that are listening to this to realize you're a speech language therapist, do you went to grad school? You did. You've done all of these amazing things with the brain works differently. And that, you know, I just dream of the day that we can all accept ourselves and other people for all of our differences. I think it's, you know, I think it's the key to, to race relations to gender issues, all Unknown Speaker 27:29 of that. Warda Farrah 27:31 And I think and I think, kind of looking back in hindsight, it's one of the things that kind of makes me a really good speech and language therapist because even though the children don't know about it, it's almost kind of like, it's sessions a different reason why I report with parents are different, or the way that I see the world or the way that I see therapy and kind of the stuff that I'm doing now in private practice. It's that that is That is where it all comes from that creativity, that ability to that that flexibility and just kind of always, I think it's the empathy that I have. So when I think because I've known growing up as a little bit different, and I was kind of similar to the children that more deeply for them to feel how I felt, yes, so you can understand it. Yeah, it's definitely different. Yeah. Betsy Furler 28:27 Well, that's wonderful. Well, if anyone in my audience wants to reach out to you For more information or connect with you, where are they? Where can they do that? Warda Farrah 28:37 Well, we can find me on LinkedIn. So it's all too far on LinkedIn. Or you can email me at inquiry at language waves@gmail.co.uk. Betsy Furler 28:49 Awesome. And I will put that in my show notes so people have that information. So warda thank you so much for joining me today. This was a fascinating conversation and I I think it was helped so many people that are listening to the show. Warda Farrah 29:04 Thank you. Thanks for Thanks for having me. Actually, it's been really great. Betsy Furler 29:08 Yes, thank you so much, and I will talk to you soon. Bye. Bye. Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to a song. If you'd like to know more about what we do and our software that helps employers support their employees with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism. Please go to WWW dot for all abilities. com. You can also follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler f as in Frank, you are LA or have a great day and we will see you
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Nine - Davis Graham - Dyslexia - Thriving After Failure In this episode, I interview Davis Graham, Customer Implementation Coordinator at Qure4u. On the podcast, Davis talks about his life with dyslexia. He describes his struggle through school with vulnerability and honesty. He also discusses how he uses technology to minimize the negative effects of dyslexia on his life. To connect with Davis, please follow him on LinkedIn (Davis Graham) or email him at daviswgraham@gmail.com. Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from Otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:05 Welcome to for all abilities the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. The aim of this podcast is to highlight the amazing things people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism are doing to improve our world. Have a listen to for all abilities, the podcast and please subscribe on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Davis Graham 0:33 Hi, Betsy Furler 0:33 welcome to for all abilities, the podcast. This is your host, Betsy Furler. I'm so excited for you to be here and hear another guest who has gone through your trials and tribulations with severe dyslexia and has landed on a really successful career. My guest today is Davis Graham. So let's take a listen to my interview with him. Davis Graham 0:58 My name is Davis last name is Graham like graham cracker, and I was recently interviewed by Jay bez libretti, who is a writer and contributor for Forbes magazine. So if you want to see the latest article, just type in Google and in Google Davis, Graham comma, Forbes and the article pop up. I work at a medical software company. its eventual venture capital startup is called cure for you with a que and I recently received my masters at Brandeis University in health and medical informatics. I did that. I completed it in 2016. It was an intensive course took it over three years. Prior to that I was in radiology. I started off as a as an administrator and then move Up to the Chief Financial Officer. I was quite the bean counter. We had a 95 employees at the top of the of the size of the company. And we're seeing at the end, we were seeing about 290 patients a day with several different sites. Single physician practice that, yep. Prior to that I was in. Yeah, that was 22 years. Betsy Furler 2:29 Yeah. And talk about different brains, my brain would not be able to do that. Davis Graham 2:35 So prior to that, I was in Washington DC, where I worked for. For seven years I worked for Rhea child's she's passed away as has her husband. He was the senator of Florida and then also the governor of florida and in the he died, actually while he was in office, and then prior to that was school, and so just kind of get back to the beginning. My father was a pediatrician. My mother was a nurse. We had they had two children, my brother and I, and then my sister, rosemary. And then I have two other sisters, Bonnie and Megan. So my brother was born first and then I was born second, then my sister was born. I was born at Fort Benning, and then moved to Bradenton, Florida, which is where I am now. And we moved over to Saudi Arabia. My dad worked for him cool company, and the frustration of my learning surface over there when I was probably six or seven. And it was pretty dramatic. I knew I felt his frustration and and so when we got back To the stapes. They took me to a psychologist at University of Miami. And that's when I was originally diagnosed with dyslexia now, this is 1967. So it it just came out they put me into a school that was, I call it the One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest school because the new would line up for pills. The pill line was longer than the lunch line, and they blast them out and there's little, there's little cups like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's like and it was just, it was a crazy time at it. So I, I eventually, my parents didn't like the way that was happening. And they also became a little bit more less reactive with my learning techniques, and so was mainstreamed into private school system. And had remedial you know, reading classes and things along those lines, but I never really did well in school. And so whenever you're dyslexic, and you don't have an outlet, in education, you create other outlets and so, you know, the class clown or social shaping. So I was quite the ham, the class clown or the hambone. And But anyways, I worked through there in Miami, and then we moved back to Bradenton and I went to several different schools got kicked out of one for stealing and, and transferred to another one and the headmaster, this the seventh grade, said, Does he have dyslexia and was the first time my parents ran into the fact that some other educator actually knew about dyslexia, and I think went to high school. Got my pilot's license in high school, which was really interesting. And I then went to apply first of all took the LSAT score test scored 650 on the essay t as a total. Some teacher told me it's not true but that she gets 300 points just for signing. But it was pretty low score and then I took on the LSAT untimed and got an 800 and then and that was it. I applied to several universities and Betsy Furler 6:38 I want to interrupt you real quick, just to ask about that. Did you were you given the option of taking the sat? Was someone reading it to you or did you read all the questions? Davis Graham 6:49 Yes, I did. And that a little bit of the side that that a lot of people don't talk about but the counselor, the guidance counselor who have been Came good friends with later on. He said, I don't know why you're doing this. You're never gonna make it through school. Betsy Furler 7:08 Wow, that's terrible. Yeah. Okay. So you went so Davis Graham 7:15 incredible. Betsy Furler 7:17 You ended up going on to school even perseverance? Davis Graham 7:23 Well, I you know, I'll talk about that. But I got I got my pilot's license I got accepted into three schools, one was Embry riddle, which had a medical engineering with and then I got into University of Montana. And that was in I think, kuleana are up there in and then also got into Westminster. And so, I, I, I, I went with Westminster because it was a liberal arts I didn't want to put myself into the aeronautical engineering, or you know, some side of that that kind of pigeon holed me. So I went with Westminster College and Fulton, Missouri, I met Hank oranger, who's now retired, excellent LD director. And we started out I was introduced to books on tape through Rfb D, which is what it was called back then now it's called reading ally, and or learn Learning Ally. And then and I, for the first time, you know, I started feeling a little bit of the freedom of technology. I had my books Betsy Furler 8:44 that you went that long without having any audio books now. Davis Graham 8:51 Yeah. I mean, so I'm probably on the edge of discovery on that side. But today You know, is completely different, and I'll get to that. But I do want to state at the beginning that any I had anybody that has a child with dyslexia. Number one, they're living in a technical dream world come true. And, and that our education system is based off for reading and writing, not off of how well a person consumes tech information and is able to express the information they've consumed. So, so anyway, so I was at Westminster. I had a 2.5 I, I cheated a lot in high school, but college, that was my own deal. And one time I cheated. The professor caught me. I told her, you know, I'll never do that again. And I never did. Betsy Furler 9:53 And when you think about we're so hard on kids for cheating, but I'm sure you felt like it was your own. Davis Graham 10:01 Yeah, it's it's one of the only options and there's a and there's a problem even, even once you stop cheating, there's a pseudo competence, which is a false idea of being competent. And you know it. And I and that's, you know, from watching TV or giving an article to somebody and saying, you got to read this article. It's a great article, and all you read was The headline, you know, in duping and so that that's kind of the foundation that really chips away at the dyslexic and so what I have a son that's dyslexic, and I started having him hook up with Bookshare. And the Voice Dream Reader is what we use. And he he has read every Nancy Drew. He's now into john, the attorney that Gus Oh yeah, I think of it in a minute but It's, I mean, it reads you know, so there's nobody in that has dyslexia and I'm severely dyslexic, I was again diagnosed. Before I went into Brandeis University up in Waltham, to be able to get my accommodations and I am in the I'm supposed to say I'm in the top, I'm in the top 1% reading with, which is not good reading with my eyes. But I'm in the 98 percentile when reading with text to speech with comprehension and the ability to, you know, produce knowledge from it from what I listened Betsy Furler 11:40 to. What a difference that makes. Davis Graham 11:44 It's huge in in so there's an I read approximately 25 books a year. But anyway, so that's a little bit down rabbit. So I went to Westminster from Westminster. I felt like they were holding me back A 2.5 I transferred to the University of the South at Swanee, Tennessee. Betsy Furler 12:06 I kind of grew up there. My dad got his doctorate. audiences. My dad was an Episcopal minister and yes, worked on his doctorate in summer in the summer. And so for many, many years, every summer, our family, went back to class and then moved back to Houston. And then yeah, I attended there to me, which is the reason I didn't go there because I didn't want to get someplace with my sister. Davis Graham 12:38 So that's where my mistakes from is Roy Benton Davis was one of the was was a chemistry professor there that my dad became a mentor for my dad. And so that's where I got my first name. He died in 56. Betsy Furler 12:56 That's incredible. What a world. So what am I What a small world suwannee I want to go on with your story now. Davis Graham 13:03 So at Swanee, I want to tell you something about any any, any person that has dyslexia has this unbelievable thirst to learn. I mean, we we just taken things, you know, orthogonal thinkers, which means and, you know, we connect multiple sources to one another and, and I want to tell you, I remember we're walking through the DuPont library. And I'm thinking one day, I'd love to read every single book in this in this library, but but you can't. And so, at Swanee, I didn't have the found the the support, tech and technical support like I did at Westminster, where Hank, you know, really arranged for note takers he arranged for test givers. He arranged my books to be read if they weren't on our fbd. And so it was a little bit of a struggle. And I actually, but I, I took tutoring, you know, for this and the, the Spanish teacher was so nice. But the tutor was like, What high school did you go to? How did you ever make it to college? I mean, those are things that that you hear, yeah, that that you keep in the, in the you put that that is the biggest voice and so if you know, the voice of truth by Mark hall with casting crowns, you know, it's, it's you feel this failure, they're constantly will the Voice of Truth is one voice but the voice you hear most of the time is is the false voice and that's one constantly tapping on your shoulder that you're a failure. And, and I remember I i Dr. Clarkson there who was the English teacher, awesome guy. He said Davis He brought me into his office. He said Davis you know this point but this paper is an F he says once you know is not on this paper and then I had a professor there that that taught me that you know you can record your I want you to record your paper for me he was an awesome I think was Dr. Richardson he was religion and he said everybody write down the books and then I don't want to see another pencil raised in this classroom for the rest of the semester and I was like oh my gosh I'm because he can't keep up with notes you don't know words you don't know how to spell words you get lost. I mean it's it's the worst experience you feel like you're you're in an industry that is so technical and you're not given any tools and you're just you are completely lost. Betsy Furler 15:49 And I bet then you're all your energy is then going to trying to write it trying to read it. What I did ness and not on your strength Davis Graham 15:58 I recorded Every I recorded classes and I would go back and verbatim transcribe what I listened to. Wow. And I'm telling you I put in a lot of time studying it Swanee and it created a a, a study at edik. That wasn't is not efficient, but right but, but I was doing everything I could but but I, I could feel the grade slipping. And this is the first time I ever had to deal with suicide. It's hard to talk about Betsy Furler 16:44 I can imagine I know that. I bet. Thank you for mentioning it because I think my listeners need to know the ramifications of all of this. Davis Graham 16:57 I wanted to I wanted to catch up on Studies and so, so I took two weeks off. And the first one the spring break came. So it took two weeks. I took the first week and i i geared it towards studying and I just knew I was never going to make it up. And I started thinking about hanging myself in the house that my friend loaned me for the spring break. And, and I you know, the other side of it is is a the psychologist who tested me for Brandeis University. She goes, how come you never white? What stops you? And I said, you know, that's a great question. Nobody's ever asked me that question. I said that what stopped me was the love my parents had for me, and acceptance that they had. And I realized that you know what, I wasn't going to go to home to shame. The only same I would have would be at the school. But but Betsy Furler 18:04 but parents loved you and right when accepting no matter what, right? Davis Graham 18:10 And they said, Davis, you just do your hardest and as long as you've done your hardest, you will never be disappointed. And so I knew it would create more questions then then create solutions. And so, so I, I, I just pushed through and I remember I got in a car with a Rhodes Scholar to get a ride to Westminster, which is where I was headed for spring break, you know for the second week and to for dyslexic to ride in a in a car with a Rhodes Scholar from Swanee to to Jefferson City, Missouri. I went he he didn't want it. He had like some Oldsmobile that he loved. And he kept kind of falling asleep at the wheel and I was like, Don't You want me to drive? And it you know, so I got to Jeff. So I went from trying, thinking about taking my life to try to save my life in this Oldsmobile. And I got up to Jeff city in God's providence. His sister lived in Jeff City, Missouri, and his, his sister's husband was a psychologist. And I remember with suicide, what you do is you put a little stone in your pocket natcher out. And so if you ever start feeling the failure, you know, you can drink you can drug you can do all that to numb the pain, but the ultimate is to just take your life. And, and so, and you feel it. It's like waves of emotions. And so, I I remember, Johnny Carson was on and and I got down and here comes the guy the house. We just finished dinner. And he goes, Hey, how did he end up at Westminster? And I said, Well, he goes, Do you know anybody that goes there? And I said, No. And he says, Well, I had and I said, I'm dyslexic. And I had to, I had to find a school that had a learning disability program. And he said, I'm dyslexic. He says, Son, you got a long, hard road to hoe. But you'll make it. Wow. Yeah. I mean, Betsy Furler 20:28 God sends the right people exactly at the right time. Davis Graham 20:32 Right. And so so I, so I got back to Swanee. I transferred to USF I couldn't, which is University, South Florida. My folks were moving out of the country. I wanted to be closer to my brother Plus, I could feel the shark of failure, you know, circling around me at school. And so I tried to transfer into USF University, South Florida here in Tampa and they said they wrote me a letter and they said, you can't you You that they sent to my parents. And so my parents came home, my mom says we need to talk. And so she sat me down. I remember exactly where we were. She handed me two letters, one from the University of the South. That said, You're academically suspended and he can't come. And she handed me the other letter that said, you can't get in. Because you are. You are your grade point was too low. And so I was like, so I said, Well, I will. I'll, they gave me the opportunity to petition my way and of which I did. And when I and they accepted me, and then a year and a half later, I, I was academically suspended from USF. And they put me in the special services for the handicapped program, which is, you know, like any disability, you are standardized You know and and so it's it melts down the the attention that I think you need and I want to make you make you aware of one point that my mom didn't Hand me those two letters. Actually that came on my when I failed out of academically was suspended from USF. She handed me that letter as well as the Swanee letter. The the letter that I received, I did not know about the failure. So she so what so let me just step back. So when I transferred to USF, they said you need to petition to get in we're not accepting you on the credentials that you that you produced. Would you be willing to if you want to appeal the denial of acceptance, then please do so. And I did. I did. I went and I presented it and auditorily In front of a panel of professors, they let me in, and a year and a half later I failed out and that's when my mom handed me the two the two letters of academic suspension so so I so so now you're in my I'm a lead is I'm a second semester junior and I receive my academic suspension from USF and and I took two years off and I worked for a nightclub organization and I was pushed up to regional trainer so I was traveling around the country because they did an IPO Initial Public Offering made a lot of cash and but the night club life is is terrible. And, and so I said, You know what, I don't want to do this rest of my life, and I couldn't get a job, you know, at any place that I wanted to. So I thought okay, I'm gonna Go back to school. So I reapplied to USF after my academic suspension was over. So I, so I, I then went to USF I applied, I showed up, the Dean of social behavior services came up to me says, Davis, what are you doing here? And I said, I'm going back to schooling goes, What are you going to major and I said, I'm going to major in psychology and he goes, you should change your major, you're not going to make it unless you can make a be average. And I said, if that's what I need to make, that's what I'm going to make. And so they put me in touch with Chris Martin, who was in charge of sheet of special services for the handicapped, she knew nothing. And then she said, Davis, I don't know anything about dyslexia. You got to tell me everything you can. I did. I took the help. I took note takers, books on tape, read, you know, the the classes, the exams were done outside the classroom, and I graduated with a with a three point I am not a 3.1 not a 3.05 a 3.0. And, and then I graduated with a BA in psychology from USF. Wow. That was that was a long road Long, long route. And I made it and I went to you went to got a job with Rhea child's up in Washington DC I ran the Florida house for seven years. The first thing I did is called our fbd. And I said I want to thank you all so much. And you know, those reception is picking up the phone because I don't know what you're talking. But that's just how I felt. But the first the last 10 minutes of this I want to talk about I want to talk about about technology today. Yeah. So I did the first time I ever found so I told you I was the CFO of Radiology center and they kept giving me contracts, six figure seven figure contracts that I was signing, and I needed to read them and I thought there's got to be something online and so I wrote in text reading software up jumped a program called read please which is still available for Windows but free download. And I was like it's a OCR the contract in and I read them and I would send them back to the manufacturer with footnotes you know as to and I say read them. People say oh, you really were you reading that? I said, Well, actually I was listening to them but I call it consuming the printed word and so yeah, and and I can do it at a high rate contracts I'm right around 650 to 700 words a minute. And and because you're looking for something that's not in there, or something that's in there like a word may you don't want that in a contract, you know, right and right and so so that started my ability to read and then I did a a article for talking books. And Pat Schubert who is actually like 100 blocks by 100 feet from me. She doesn't work there anymore. From the The library she said would you do an article and and I said sure. And she she then said you should become a member of Bookshare and this is 2007 and I'm married. I have my beautiful wife Trish and our we have four kids now. And and I said what's book Sharon? She said it's an online library for or digital library for the print disabled. And then book started company. So I became a member USF they found my that I was looking I needed proof of disability. I talked, picked up the phone of special services. He goes, Oh, I know you Davis. I got your file right here. It's been 20 years by the way. And he says I've got your file, I'll sign them and i sin and I started reading and as I stated earlier, I read about 25 books a year, and Ron Chernow, some of my is one of my favorite authors. Well, I started to tutoring kids how to use this technology with Bookshare. I use Voice Dream Reader, or you can use the TTS on any Apple device across all platforms. And you can read anything today or consume anything today more efficiently than a normal reader. Betsy Furler 28:17 Yeah, and so amazing. Davis Graham 28:19 Absolutely amazing. And so that then allowed me to when I was offered the, to go to graduate school for masters. I was like, Am I going to walk the talk of these kids that I'm telling they can make it in college? And so I, I, it's scary. And so I, it's, you're reading 350 to 500 pages a week. And so, but I said, Yes, I got re credentialed. So I had to take all the battery of psychology tests and Brenda mcalary who was the psychologist I said, you know, Brittany, the funny thing is, is now that I'm reading with text to speech, so often I don't feel like I have dyslexia and she goes, Oh, that's not it, you have dyslexia. And she said, You are actually on price list you can be. And so it was it was crazy. But I got into Brandeis and Daniel, I never pronounce his name. He was my I'll send it to you. And then Gwynn's Maxwell, were my advocates there, they would get me the information. What I needed was the book, the ESPN number, I would contact the, the, the publisher, I would ask for a book and alternative format, they would send it a paper to me I would send I would fill it out and send that to Gwyn, she would sign it and then send it back to the publisher and I had the book, you know, usually within a week and sometimes within days, and and I would read, I would line up all my readings and I'd put A Voice Dream Reader and I'd read them and then I have time to read extra books, because I read through, you know, so quickly. So I read, you know, the Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks and blah, blah, blah and, and so I, I got to close to graduation, and I made an 86 on a test and I turned to my wife Trish and I said, sweetie, I don't think I'm gonna make it. And that's how, that's how close failure just follows you around. Your I am being and she goes deaconess. You're making straight A's. And, and I was like, Betsy Furler 30:36 yeah, it's actually sad. Like, almost, you know, that. That feeling of Davis Graham 30:42 post dyslexic syndrome. So, um, but anyways, I February. I was on I graduated may of 2016. They called me up and they said, Davis, this is Brandeis University. They said you receive you The you've been nominated for one of two academic honors. Yeah, wow. And we want you to lead the 2016 class for the graduate Professional Studies into the commencement ceremony. And it was amazing. It's amazing what we have a technology if I'm reading something, and I don't know where it is, I can click on the word, and I can go to it and see it or hear or read about it. I can make notes in my in my text, and then export those notes that I've made with speech to text out to a Word document and then post it, you know, I I use now you can use voice typing with Google Docs. The V the VC place that I'm at cure for you, you know, I'm reading all the time all the time with with Apple's text to speech, and it's it's we're living in a technical dream. world come true and to hear Dyslexics get on interviews and say I haven't read one book of my whole life is is not doing where we are justice. The education system needs to change. This should be made available for everybody. I'd say, you know, start a third grade level people don't get that will do. You don't want a child that's afraid of the printed word. Betsy Furler 32:22 Now that's my that's been one of my missions to I had a previous podcast called your app lady. I love technology and I love apps and I love what it can do for us and I do a lot of consulting in both the education world and lawyers on just I mean, it's so easy now it's these accommodations are so easy, but people have to know that it's out there and the kids have to be allowed to use it and and adults in the workplace. They have to like it's not cheating. It's not what we asked not doing the work. It's actually A different skill and harder some to listen versus to read it yourself. So it's not, it's not giving someone an advantage over the other kids it is or the other employer employees. But the tech we have now it is amazing. I'm so glad that you are benefiting so much from it and are such an advocate for it. Davis Graham 33:24 So just worked with MIT match nets on a voluntary basis. First of all, readings only been commonplace for 200 years. So we've based our whole system off of a skill that's one of the toughest skills to teach. And we we, we, the human brain didn't evolve to read when you actually teach somebody to read, you repurpose the part of the brain was made for something completely different. This is john Gabrielli at MIT and, and then you just go on, they say there's no backup plan, but there is a bad A plan we just talked about it. Right? And then Matthew schnepp says our current methods of reading is based on ancient engineering constraints no longer relevant in today's society. It's so true we are we are at a crossroads. Where if if and I would love to introduce I've talked to are sent resumes to Ohio State, any college that's ready to implement this technology into the core curriculum will find you you've read purpose, the YouTube generation, right right to what they are used to how many people listen to your podcast at two times, because you can actually understand up to 600 words a minute. Betsy Furler 34:48 Right. And a lot of people do I know that. That's it's becoming, it's becoming common among people who know that it exists, but there I still think there So many people that don't know, they don't know that they have this option and I run into it on a daily basis. Davis Graham 35:06 Yeah. Well, it's it you know, to be an advocate for a child with a disability is one thing because you have a purpose and a reason. But to introduce this technology that is, is just innovative thinking for any educational institution, what's good bring it in. I'm an expert in it. I showed you you know, on LinkedIn, you can't read it doesn't allow for the accessibility about you know, when it goes to the about person, I've reached out to LinkedIn and I sent it to the person I never heard good, but but you it doesn't read but I showed you how you can take a picture of it and then Voice Dream Reader as well as Microsoft wouldn't lens you can OCR it into a text rich format. So yeah, anyways, Betsy Furler 35:51 so I know people are going to want to keep in touch with you or or get in touch with you. So how can they do that? What's the best way to reach you. Davis Graham 36:00 So if you go to the Forbes article, Jay bez labret put in their lifelong or life lifelong, I, my LinkedIn has my phone number right on it. But my, my LinkedIn, My phone number is is 9142120 to nine, nine, and then or you can email me and it's a, it's Davis w gram, all one word@gmail.com Betsy Furler 36:29 awesome. And I will post a link to that article in the show notes as well as to your LinkedIn and your email. Davis Graham 36:37 Any advocacy you can create for me, I would love to come speak to educators. You know, of course for a fee. I would I it's it's a dream come true if we can. And you know, the cool thing is it's language agnostic. I was at a school here and in Korean, I showed the guy on his phone a good turn this Simon turn that on. He goes, Oh, you know, like to see those faces change creates hope in a new a new future for everybody to step out. Betsy Furler 37:11 Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for thank you for sharing your story and being on the podcast. I know this is going to help so many people. So thank you so much for for being here with us. Okay, Davis Graham 37:26 I will bless you. Betsy Furler 37:27 Thank you Same to you. I will talk to you soon. Thanks so much for listening to the for all abilities podcast. This is Betsy Furler, your host and I really appreciate your time listening to the podcast. And please subscribe on any podcast app that you're listening to us on. If you'd like to know more about what we do and our software that helps employers support their employees with ADHD, dyslexia, learning differences and autism. Please go to WWW dot for all abilities. com. You can also Follow us on Instagram. And you can follow me on LinkedIn at Betsy Furler. Have a great day and we will see you soon.
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Eight - Ron Kerns - In this episode, I interview Ron - Autism and Neurodiversity Advocate and Graphic Designer. On the podcast, Ron talks about his autism diagnosis later in life. We discuss how Ron uses his Neurodiversity in his career and how he found a career and a position that allowed him to work to his strengths. To connect with Ron, please follow him on LinkedIn (Ron Kerns) or email him at ron@StudioKerns.com. Check out his work at www.studiokerns.com Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:00 Hi, everybody. Welcome to for all abilities the podcast. Today I have a special guest. And this is Ron Kearns. He is going to introduce himself to us talk about his diagnosis, which was later in life. And what that diagnosis means for him now in his life, and what it might have been like if he was diagnosed as a child, and how he uses his brain to be a highly successful person. So Ron, welcome to for all abilities, the podcast. Ron Kerns 0:44 Thanks for having me. Betsy Furler 0:45 Yes, thank you so much. Why don't you introduce yourself to my audience, tell us a little bit about where you're from what you do now. Anything else you'd like to tell us about yourself? Ron Kerns 0:59 Okay. See Where am I from? I grew up. I grew up in Detroit, in Michigan, and then four and then after college and all that for many years we lived in for 20 years. We lived in Dallas. And then 2016 we decided it was time for change and we moved to rural northern Arkansas. And that's where we are now. Betsy Furler 1:32 Yeah, I saw that and one of the articles I read about you that you now live in Arkansas and you do have some fishing. Ron Kerns 1:40 Yes, I'm that we live just a few miles away from the White River which has some of the best rainbow trout fishing in the country. It's absolutely fabulous. Betsy Furler 1:49 That is great. I love fishing. Ron Kerns 1:53 I am a professional graphic designer. I have done work. in pretty much any environment, you can come up with over my almost 30 years career in house corporate, working in ad agencies on my own as a freelancer, and I could, and I currently work for a university. There is a small campus for Missouri State University. And that's a short drive away. Just across the border over into Missouri. That's how far north we live in Arkansas. Wow. So that's since I guess, so that's so that's I've been there at the university for it'll be it'll be two years in May. And so and that that particular job has just been going fabulous, best job I've ever had. Betsy Furler 3:00 That's nice to hear. And you were diagnosed with autism as an adult, correct? Yes, I was 46. So tell us a little bit about what you were like when you were a little boy Ron Kerns 3:15 there. The one overpower the one overlying theme from when I was a kid was when I was in school. I can remember pretty much walking into kindergarten for the very first day, all of a sudden feeling like I did. And the bullying started pretty much right away and continued K through 12. So I stayed within the same school system trait the entire time. I was in school and it just so that was a huge part of being a kid when I was a kid. I did find some some relief from that I would say refuge from that I when I was about seven or eight my parents got our family a piano. And so piano playing became my, my, my blanket. security blanket. I played and played and played forever. There. Oh, here here's an idea to give you an idea how That became such a huge thing. I can remember being in fifth grade and I would take a pledge black magic marker and draw all the keys on my desk. And so that way I can sit there and play the piano in my mind playing Wow. Wow. I'm Betsy Furler 5:23 so you could kind of escape to that that would be right now Ron Kerns 5:28 that was my that was my escape. I'm teachers in the janitors didn't care for so much. All right. I didn't have a quick didn't know I didn't have a reasoning for it. Um, there was one particular date with the entire class was heading to a field trip. So the class entire class was just abuzz with activity and just kind of overall madness is everybody was excited about going on this field trip. I just kind of hunkered down and was gotten to just zoning everything out, playing my panel on my desk. Then, at some points, the teacher put her head, her hand on my shoulder. And it kind of got me out of that. And I realized that everybody had left and they all got on the bus. And I was and I had no idea. And the teacher was like, it's time to go now. Kind of a thing. Betsy Furler 6:40 And you really were able to hyper focus on that. Ron Kerns 6:45 Yeah, um, so piano playing turned into once I got into junior high and was able to get in the band. I went into that played a couple of different instruments in band That led to later on within leader in junior high in high school, attending a performing arts camp in the summer, and then through that, I toured Europe with an orchestra for a summer when I was 17. Wow. So all of that kind of all started from all started back from know the piano thing. Betsy Furler 7:30 Did you were you a good student academically or did you struggle in school? Ron Kerns 7:35 I struggled terribly. Um, a lot of it had to do with the, a lot of it had to do with bullying. Just self esteem, self confidence, all that kind of stuff. Just going into survival mode, I guess is the way to put it and then There was so much that I just couldn't comprehend. But like everything else, there was no set attribution to why I couldn't. So all through school. It was, well, he just needs to focus more. He needs to find himself. He needs to just work harder. You know, he has the potential to do this and Betsy Furler 8:34 write some but they were seeing you as a smart kid, but they couldn't figure out what avenue to reach you. Ron Kerns 8:42 Right? Because nobody knew anything about any of this sector. Right, right. So I just kind of muddle through and past I guess And so there was a, I remember, yeah, so Um, so yeah, so that was basically school for me. Betsy Furler 9:12 And did you go to college after high school? Ron Kerns 9:16 After high school I did. I didn't go to college, I had a very difficult time trying to figure out exactly what it is I wanted to do. And then I didn't even really pick even art classes when I was in high school, or anything like that. My older sister in the meantime, we had been going to this small business school in northern Michigan. And it was kind of my mindset that a, I knew in the back of my mind that going to a much smaller school. Were probably be better for me which it was and then going to school where my sister was already wouldn't hurt either. So I kind of focused it on Northwood University, which is a school in Midland, Michigan. And I looked at their offerings, and I saw the advertising marketing program. And I thought, Boy, that sounds like something that could be interested in. So and I realized that they were going to have a day for potential students in that program. So we went up there in and then I was so it was just seemed like to be a really good fit for what I wanted to do. And So I went there and did find it was from there by the chairman of the apartment was a huge factor in me doing what I do today. He hit his background, because that played a big part of his background was in the 50s 60s and into early 70s. Working with being working when advertising for Ford and Lincoln mercury. He was a major. He was the he was the creative director for when the Ford Mustang first was introduced. Oh, wow. And other other monumental advertising campaigns and such over the years through that time period. So When he would come to class, he would bring in all of these old big boards and storyboards of all of these campaigns that he worked on when he was in the business. And using that as an illustration for what he was teaching that day or whatever. And so one day, he sat me down and he said, Have you ever thought about going to art school? No, I've never had an art class in my life. And he goes in and he showed me all the stuff that I had done as projects in his classes and said, you really should think about it. So um, I did and, and after getting my advertising marketing degree there, I went to art school in Cincinnati, and did very well there. And then it's through that I earned an internship with Cambodia. Well, Detroit. They were the Advertising Agency at the time for Chevrolet. And so, especially with that with once I earned the internship there. I just did that really solidified that, wow, I'm, I'm where I want to be. Betsy Furler 13:19 That's amazing. And it kind of shows that there can be one person in our life that we run across that can have such a large impact. You know, obviously he saw that talent in you and was able to communicate it to you know, you Yeah, really? That that was she was so pivotal in your life and sounds like Yeah, definitely. Um, so how did you finally get diagnosed? what led up to the diagnosis? Ron Kerns 13:52 That's it. That's quite an interesting story. I've been interviewed about that before because it's such an odd story. Before I began to suspect that I was that I was autistic, I would have never have guessed. Um, anyway, so it was around 2011 when I was watching the show parenthood on NBC, huh? And we watched from know when Elizabeth recently aired from the very first episode. I was familiar with a movie that had come out us before, so I thought it'd be a good something nice to watch. So, um, as the episodes went on long, and there was that kid max who eventually got diagnosed on the show. I was just sitting there watching and watching and going, man. He was thinking, he is a lot like I was when I was a kid. Uh huh. And parent teacher conferences his parents would have won over that whole Same thing with not having Well, he's got so much potential for he just used to focus on the road. And then having all that same conversations, it was just like no. mean it was like me being on the show. And so one just just one night. I was like, Okay, that's it. So I was just sitting on the, on the couch, I grabbed my laptop and I was sitting there watching show I started Googling, like, undiagnosed autism, adult saroo, something like that. And as soon as I hit return, it just, that's just when the light bulb went off. And I started seeing what was out there about this and starting to reading the list of You just might be artistic F and then you have the list of different characteristics or traits. And it was like, Oh, my goodness. And I'm, Betsy Furler 16:24 well, that's really interesting. Ron Kerns 16:27 So while doing the googling, I came across a title of a book. The book is, which I recommend everybody by the way, it's a book called pretending to be normal, written by Leann holiday Willie, and she was also diagnosed later in life and like in her mid 30s. Mm hmm. And, but when I saw that when I saw just the name of the book, pretending to be normal. was like, that's me. Cuz especially in the workplace, it just always feeling out of place, like an intruder, and all that stuff. I always just, and I never really could put my finger on it. But when I stopped pretending to be normal, I was like, that's it. And, and so I just felt like that's what you've been Betsy Furler 17:27 doing your whole life. Ron Kerns 17:29 Exactly. And so, so and so with that. I just dug in and got more and more and then in 2014 a couple years later, it came to a point to where I was pretty much self diagnosed at the time. And I just knew that in order to get any kind of support services, that kind of thing, you know, I needed an official diagnosis because at the time I was without a job. I has my throughout my career while I've done some pretty cool stuff and have worked with some great clients and done some great projects. My career has also been huge difficulties landing a job when I needed to get one. The past decade 2010 to 2020 I was unemployed without a full time job for seven of those 10 years. Wow. I'm thankfully doing what I do, I can I was able to kind of scrape by doing freelance work. And so it says that was getting them from a diagnosis got me in This with this nonprofit that was in Dallas that helps people with autism and other similar things, you know, help provide some assistance with no landing shops or work. So Betsy Furler 19:15 yeah, that's a great point. I, I, I'm really passionate about workplace accommodations and understanding in the workplace about diversity. But it's a really great point because I often say to parents, yes, you need to get this diagnosis for your child, if nothing else, but for the services. But I, you know, we don't think about that as an adult, that there are still services out there that you can access but only if you have Ron Kerns 19:42 the diagnosis. Yeah. And unfortunately, for adults, they're very, very hard to find because everything is geared towards children. I even I even had a hard time finding a provider that would do an assessment or evaluation for me Because I was an adult Betsy Furler 20:03 Yeah, and not about that area and that was probably expensive as well. Ron Kerns 20:09 Um, I got lucky on that, um, during this entire time of struggling to find a job and knowing that was self diagnosed, I got a wreck. I get somebody I know through one of my facebook group artistic Facebook groups messaged me one day and she said, Here this, this place might be able to help you out with the whole job thing. And it was a agency for the state of Texas called Texas Department of the system and Rehabilitative Services and our health, those with disabilities and such to find appropriate work. So I said oh, well that could they could possibly help. So I made it, I made a appointment with the person there at the office, which wasn't too terribly far away from home. And I went there, and and then she started asking me about my diagnosis as well I don't have one yet. And then she proceeded, explain that you're having a diagnosis is necessary because to be eligible, so you can determine eligibility for services. And then she said, because you came to us seeking services, will give you a list of providers, and we will provide you with that assessment to determine whether or not you're eligible, which means getting the diagnosis, right. So um, I just got lucky with that and I'm in so I Just the assessment and it was all taken care of by that state agency. Betsy Furler 22:07 And now for people who are listening and might be in the state of Texas, it's now called the Texas Workforce Commission. They change their name a few years ago. So Ron Kerns 22:16 yeah, I remember when they did that. Yeah, they kind of melded together with the Workforce Commission. Yes. Betsy Furler 22:21 Yeah. Yeah. So well, that's the I hadn't even thought about that as an option for people that thank you for bringing that up. That is helpful. So once you got the diagnosis, how did that change your life? Ron Kerns 22:36 Everything all of a sudden made sense. Yeah, it was just it was just so much. It's almost like overwhelming for a while. Even looking back at, you know, being autistic, one of the things one trait is being able to vividly remember Member finnstrom had many many, many, many years ago, to me, our youngest age and and just thinking back at all these little different situations. And then now I know why or how I did that or this or whatever. And now it just like just makes so much more sense. It's it's almost indescribable Betsy Furler 23:34 and I think one thing that's so remarkable is that a lot of people think that people who are autistic don't have much self insight. And you diagnosed yourself on by by being able to look inside yourself and see your traits and other people. I think it's a I you know, I think it kind of breaks the surface. Yeah, type of what it's like to be autistic. Ron Kerns 24:03 Actually, it's work. It's quite common really for people for autistic people to be introspective, because Betsy Furler 24:10 i i agree. I think they I think it is. But I think it's a stereotype that Yeah, you're not that people with autism are not introspective. from working with lots of people who are autistic over the years, I have found it to be totally the opposite, like, so it makes sense to me that you would be able to do that. Ron Kerns 24:33 Right? Because right now, amen. It's quite, it's becoming more and more common for like adults like me to finally get that diagnosis. And probably one of the more common ways that adults are realizing that Ooh, maybe I should go get assessed or evaluated is they first have a child who is diagnosed Once or child gets diagnosed, they're like, Man, that child's always been just like me. I wonder you know if they have the same traits and difficulties or problems and and so once the kids diagnosed it's not easy stuff to, to say a person No. More and more. It's becoming more widely believed that autism itself is genetic. I for instance, I can I even know my father passed away in 2011 before I was diagnosed, I can almost guarantee you that if he would have gotten us assessed somewhere along the way, he would have been diagnosed. Right? Right. Just knowing how that all happened and all of that kind of stuff. Betsy Furler 25:56 How do you think that your autism allows you to be successful in what you're doing Ron Kerns 26:06 can sometimes be a tough one because especially with all my job in career difficulties with having a job and retaining the job, it's can be very hard to find that what's positive about a Geass? so often I see the negative. Betsy Furler 26:34 Right, right. Ron Kerns 26:36 And then a few years after I was diagnosed, I saw the movie saw the movie. Thinking in pictures. The story about Temple Grandin. Yes. And that just blew my mind. It was like that's a that's another So, I've always done that, but never realized how or why. And so that ties in perfectly with me being a graphic designer, I think in pictures, Betsy Furler 27:16 right. So that makes that job, your career, the perfect career free for your brain. And you kind of accidentally happened upon it. The Ron Kerns 27:30 the difficulty lies in being in the marketing, corporate communications field. So much of it is personality driven, Betsy Furler 27:49 right, relationship and all of that's Ron Kerns 27:54 Miss so that's what's really been the hindrance more than anything. great example of that is, you know how I was, before I got this job at the university. I was without a full time job for five years. And so last my last full time job in 2013 1313. And then anyway, so it was during that time when I was out and I was constantly getting interviewed, it wasn't like I had a terrible habit, bad resume and I was constantly getting new people said that it was in the interviewing process. It was the interview and that would always be the barrier. And, but I was also from the freelancing. I did the I did an annual report for an organization in Baltimore called abilities network in 2014 2015 From like that, and I did an annual report for the Arctic, North Texas, and about the same time, maybe a little bit after. So here I was, I was designing and creating these annual reports for these large organizations. And these are projects that it would typically be done by a large team of designers with the nice, top design firms. And I was doing them all on my own. highly acclaimed, I was winning awards, you name it. And yet I was still having difficulty in finding a job. And that was the frustrating part of it. I knew I could do the work, but it was just getting past it in the whole interviewing thing was a massive hurdle. So in 2004, so 2016 comes around, I had a couple of interviews that were really should have been a slam dunk. My one of my previous jobs was with one of my previous jobs was with a multinational veterinary pharmaceutical company. I was the art director and graphic designer for the entire consumer brands division, I was a sole designer. So all of the packaging, point of purchase displays, advertising marketing, you name it was all done by me. And so all of my work was seen and put within Petco and PetSmart all over the country. And, um, and so then that job ended in 2009. But then, when I was in sometime in early 2016, I was able to interview for a job with a local chain in Dallas, a chain of veterinary clinics, who also had their own private label branded products that they would sell within their clinics. So it would be marketing the clinics and and the packaging and all of this all of the stuff for the products they had. And I was like, How can I not get this? Right now that's just what you've been doing basically. And I didn't get it. And I got some very good sets the flimsiest flimsiest excuses to why they chose somebody else. And that's what pretty much and so I was unemployed for almost five years at the time. We were getting close to getting foreclosed on our house. And in addition to that, my My wife's dad who was living who had lived in northern Arkansas for many years. At that time. His wife had passed away. And so he was up here all by himself. We were several, we were 810 hour drive away. And so she was certainly like, oh, wouldn't it be nice if we could up there be up near my dad, all that kind of stuff. And we'd always love the area. And I thought, well, maybe once I retire, we can move up here because there's really no jobs for somebody like me around here. Uh huh. But once those job opportunities just kind of continued coming and going away and I, we came to the conclusion, especially with the foreclosure house. It was like, let's just get out of here. I'm like, I'm done. got going. So I'm We sold the house. Thankfully, we avoid foreclosure and the market Dallas was just going crazy. So we we did quite well on the house in the long run. And so I did be opposite of what you would think instead of staying in an area where there's countless jobs, I came to an area where there's a mere handful of jobs. And so I was doing the tons of freelancing at the time so I figured hey, I could get by a few minutes and we could while just working from here at the office phone and, and doing what I do. So for two for two years, that's what I did. I just worked from home, doing my work for my clients from wherever in the world they were. And that worked just fine. And and then I saw on an on host one day for the job. at Missouri State, it was so perfect. That was perfect job. So my whole mindset was what I knew would eventually happen was how many other people could their candidates could they have possibly been have had my background experience applying for this job. We live in this extremely remote and rural area. Right, right. And so I go to the interview and it's a panel interview about six or seven people. And one of the people read this statement about how the university values, diversity, inclusion, and, and all of that kind of stuff. So I thought, Okay, that sounds great. And then came to the point where I showed him my portfolio and they were raving about my portfolio and the stuff I was showing enough work I've done in the past. And so then then it came to strengths and weaknesses, asked me about my strengths and weaknesses. And so that's what I had a pretty good idea that they would be perfectly fine with it. So I said, well, the weaknesses that goes along with me learning I was autistic just a few years ago. And it kind of went into my strengths and weaknesses, as far as you know, being a graphic designer, that sort of thing. So that was one of the few times I know. That's always a big conundrum for people who are on the spectrum, when the right is Betsy Furler 35:57 whether you disclose your Yeah, quote unquote disability or not just Ron Kerns 36:03 the disposer you to try to fake it. Betsy Furler 36:05 right all right. Ron Kerns 36:07 It was at that point to where I felt comfortable enough. I knew that of course, I knew from the get go like this is a major university they almost certainly are going to be understanding and even somewhat appreciate the fact that I've accomplished what I what I've done and being artistic. Mm hmm. And and so then that's what happened and, and I got the job. Betsy Furler 36:38 That's amazing. I think that I think disclosing your condition was absolutely the right thing to do. proud that probably got you the job because then they realized Ron Kerns 36:51 that Betsy Furler 36:52 you know, the things about the interview that maybe you're the things that you do or say during an interview that maybe wouldn't get you the job in the past. They're like, Ah, that's why his brain works in this way. And he gave us the interview, clearly and then and then ended up with a job that is a great fit for you. Ron Kerns 37:17 Yeah. And a lot of it was just having that feel for the people that were there. No. Had a good feeling that Okay, there. It's going to be okay to mention it. And, you know, it just, it's, it's no, so whenever somebody brings it up is like, it just depends. Yeah, because I can think of other times in the other jobs I've had to where I would mention it. So I'm on my first. So after I got the notification that just you have the job. I contacted my caseworker with the agency in Dallas who is a, it's a organization called lunch ability. And they're in Dallas. And they're now merged with another organization called my possibilities. And they help people just like me find appropriate jobs and work. And so I called my caseworker. And of course, she was excited and very thrilled that I finally landed the job. And so we talked through the one thing that we've always wanted to talk through was, okay, I have the job now. And, you know, making sure that no one can I had everything, all my ducks in a row for that first day, week, month, because how important it is to kind of get it off to a good start. And so we were able to talk through all of that. And so then on my first day or so, I'm kind of set my manager down and Well, as you know, I'm autistic. And I said I and I explained to her that I really didn't need any really accommodations really a whole lot. But I gave her a list of things to keep in mind. For thankfully, I do have my own office with the door. So I said no, quite often, I'll have the door closed, depending on what's going on elsewhere in the area there. I try to keep it open. My lights, my fluorescent lights are always off all the time. She even bought me on this small little desk area. Because I will I think for the huge I have a huge massive window on one side of the office. That's plenty of daylight and most times, but I'm really I'm really cloudy days. I have a little desperate that you got me help with light. That's not nearly as bright as those big fluorescent things. Right? Right. I'm just told her my difficulties with the whole executive functioning thing with, you know, organizing, organizing and prioritizing projects and work. And that can sometimes have 20 projects in varying degrees of in the queue 20 years old projects and varying degrees of completion or, and that sort of thing. And so she's always been very helpful with never hesitated to help in any way when I've come to her and say, again, we talked about this from insert, make sure you know that. I'm working on the right projects at the right time for this because I have a lot going on at the moment, or whatever. And so just share her being very, extremely Understanding and patient with me is just been, it's been a huge Betsy Furler 41:06 well, and that sounds like you have there, you have some accommodations at work, but they're not expensive or big deal type of accommodations. They're things that make your life so much easier and allow you to do your best work. But it also wasn't super expensive for the university to put into place. And it probably actually that kind of back and forth on deadlines and, you know, possibly, you know, asking her to break down tasks or, you know, kind of getting her feedback on that. That's great communication for anybody. Ron Kerns 41:47 Right. And so, then some of it goes back to learning. Things are learning difficulties now that I know I'm watching Stick. For instance, before I was artistic, I never would have never thought to get your plugs for when I'm in a crowded restaurant, I just grin and bear that. And then and then been an artistic adult Facebook group. People mentioned here places. And I was like, wow, that could actually be a really cool idea. Now I have several sets that I carry with me. So I'm never without a pair. Because I've never know when and where I'm going to be. And and it's like, well, why haven't I thought of this before? Betsy Furler 42:38 inexpensive things that you can do and easy to do and make the world a difference. Right. Right. Right. And so Ron Kerns 42:45 then with the accommodations, I'm a lot of I've read a lot lately about standup desks, dusted can put on your desk and then raise up to where you can stand in kind of Move around a bit more and all that. And so that's what I have. So I talked with my manager about that. And so what is being ordered for me right now? That's awesome. To get one of those, so that would that is I think that will be helpful. Betsy Furler 43:19 Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. I'm so glad you found that job and you made that leap of faith to move from Dallas to rural Arkansas and it sounds like that was just the best move you could have made. Ron Kerns 43:35 One thing I just thought of about the move to Arkansas was after I got diagnosed sometime or along the way I started having meltdowns and panic attacks like while driving and traffic. Safety imagine the freeways and highways and roads in Dallas are Always very congested. just crazy as crazy as can be. Yeah, and the meltdowns and all of that we're amplifying. And that was something that was an eye. I gave up driving for the last couple years we were there as much as I could think he lived fairly close to the train station where I could take the train into downtown or wherever I needed to go. And that was another factor in the moving here was she I wonder how it would be if we moved out of this sensory overload of the city and out there to where it's calmer and the traffic is almost non existent. Right little thing. And so I'm just with In a few months, my wife and I had the conversations like the changes almost instant. I'm just the change of environment. It was just amazing. Betsy Furler 45:13 That Yeah, that's a good point. I was actually thinking about that for myself the other day cuz I live in Houston, Texas, and traffic is terrible. And it's like, you know, I, I wonder, you know what it would be like, if we didn't have to have this traffic, we didn't have to be on traffic all the time. And I think we will eventually move out someplace that is not as bad because I think we're all of our brains. It's not good. You know? So that's, yeah, that but that is if if sensory overload is a problem for you, traffic is and just the big city bustle. That's a lot of that's a lot of sensory information you're having to process Maybe not for any good reason. Ron Kerns 46:03 Yeah, again, that's just something that has. Because there's a there's a thing called it's autism fatigue, I think is a word for it. And so that was something that started popping up. And so basically the idea that I was handling all of that for years, fairly well. But having the mask and camouflaging Bailey all the time constantly, constantly becomes the point when you come to a certain age when you just the mask starts slipping and you just can't have it on as much all the time. Uh huh. And, and so that is what I really think kind of was happening. Just started losing the ability to tolerate a That all the time because it just can't keep the mask on all the time as much because it's because as you get older, it becomes more exhausting more effort to do that day in and day out. Betsy Furler 47:13 Right and then you're taking your energy that you could be using at work and with your family and all of that. You're having to use that energy to try to to put the keep that mask on for the with the sensory stimulation. Well that I'm I am so glad you moved to Arkansas. I think that was such a great I think that was such a great thing. And I I loved hearing your story and your your later in life life diagnosis. I think this interview is going to help so many people that are listening to my show, and how can people get in touch with you if they want to learn more about you. Ron Kerns 47:58 I'm pretty much everywhere. In Social media. Ron turns Kieran s on Facebook. They can go to my website, studio Kearns that. I'm, I'm very active on LinkedIn. You can find me there round Ronald. Ronald Kearns. Um or just send me an email at Ron at Studio Kearns calm. Betsy Furler 48:31 Awesome. I will put all of that in my show notes and the book suggestion because I think that I'm going to I haven't ever read that book either. I'm gonna I'm gonna read it. I'll probably listen to it on Audible, but I Ron Kerns 48:44 pretended to be normal. Yeah, definitely. Another book that's also along the same premise that I found it. really helpful was john elder Robison, his book Look me in the eye. Betsy Furler 49:03 Yes, yes, that's a good one. Ron Kerns 49:07 Both of those help was so helpful to me because, you know, both were on the same premise about this is how my life was. And then I found that later in life I was like Betsy Furler 49:18 I will say, well, I'll put both of those in the show notes. And thank you so much for joining me today. You were a wonderful interview and great information for my for my audience. Ron Kerns 49:34 Thanks for having me. Betsy Furler 49:35 Yes, have a great day. You too and audience Thank you for listening and please subscribe to the show. You can also follow me on social media at Betsy Furler f you are le er or for all abilities.
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Seven - Rachel Hawkins- Variety is the Spice of Work - Working with Autism In this episode, I interview Rachel Hawkins - Autism and Neurodiversity Advocate and Occupational Therapist. We discuss how Rachel uses her Neurodiversity in both her careers and her self identification of autism because of her work with other people with autism. To connect with Rachel, please follow her on LinkedIn (Rachel Hawkins) or email her at rjhawkins.it@gmail.com. Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Full Transcription from otter.ai Betsy Furler 0:08 Hi, everybody, welcome back to the for all abilities podcast. I'm so excited. You're here. This is Betsy Furler, your host, and today I have a special guest, Rachel Hawkins. Rachel is going to talk to us a little bit about her childhood, her diagnosis, how she went to college and grad school and became an occupational therapist and what she wants to do in the future. Welcome to the podcast, Rachel. Rachel Hawkins 0:37 Thank you, Betsy. Good to be here. Betsy Furler 0:39 Yes, thank you so much. Why don't you give our audience a little bit of an introduction to yourself? Rachel Hawkins 0:46 Okay, so as you said, I am an occupational therapist. I'm also self diagnosed on the autism spectrum. And I most of my experiences then in PBX, x so I, I worked most recently, my past jobs have been at a specialty school for young adults. It's more severe autism and behavioral challenges. It really got me into getting into working with young adults with protocol disabilities and helping them transition to independence, which was the name of my program. I created a mask position. And I've recently gotten more interested in neuro diversity and hiring programs and consulting with companies to train them on how to work with those of us who think differently and also to work with the individuals that are in these dads. I'm thinking that my my background could help That as well. Betsy Furler 2:03 That is awesome. I love it when people use their strengths to help the rest of the world. Rachel Hawkins 2:09 Yeah, thank you. Betsy Furler 2:11 Tell us a little bit about what you were like as a little girl. Rachel Hawkins 2:15 Um, I would say I was as a child growing up in the 80s and 90s. We were completely unaware of anything called the autism spectrum it was I was very more affected with sensory processing in terms of sensitivity to loud noises to certain fabrics of clothes and my mom tells me, I remember her having to cut out all the tags in my shirt. And socially I was very quiet and shy and insecure by South Music was a big part of my life and not as much now but I still like to do music. And I was started at three, three years old, Suzuki violin, all the way up to college. And I think that gave me a voice in a way to interact with people. Non verbally because in I was a jazz piano player. And when you're doing jazz improv, you don't verbally tell the people it's my turn to solo or it's your turn or things like that you have to pick up on the other people and what they're doing and so I think that may have been a helpful thing for me. Yeah. Betsy Furler 3:53 And also gave you a group to be in like a friend group. Rachel Hawkins 3:56 Right? Well, not not as much as said group, but there was a group And my parents were in are great. And they put me in all kinds of activities to see what would what would stick girlscouts to i did i Kido music cedar dance for and then I went to a private high school which worked better for me because the public school was because my sensitivities to noise and was like too much. And so the social component, I was able to interact more with people in high school. Like I had a few friends, although it was a boarding school that was a little further from where I did. I didn't do so much outside of school, but that was a good experience for me. Betsy Furler 4:55 Yeah, it sounds like your parents really made a big effort to get you out there and like you Sam, find out what sticks out of all those. Yeah, Rachel Hawkins 5:02 I thought, you know, and at that time there was nothing really done compared to what we know now. So, I, you know, I had speech therapy as a child, I had a couple sessions with an occupational therapist. psychologist, psychiatry is in school speech therapy, and then as a speech therapist, and outpatient with another young girl who I really related to because she would take us to a country where they did to me as a person that I really am and she would take us to the mall and we would look at what do we think the relationship is between these people I work with. Yeah, a little bit different. And, like worksheets on idioms and what do those mean? Because that's sometimes a challenge for people on the autism spectrum. Betsy Furler 6:12 Wow, what am I? That's amazing. Yeah, I bet you think back to her frequently during your work time, which kind of leads us to set some. I'm assuming you did okay academically because I know you're an occupational therapist now. So what was college like for you? Rachel Hawkins 6:33 Well college and graduate school. I went to a small college I wanted to go to college and thousand Naira then, which I think at that time, had about 1200 students who saw maybe a little bit more. And I, I had friends there. graduate school, I remember having like a group of girlfriends which was a very different experience for me. And so I actually feel like in college, the size at the, at the beginning the size was really good because I do better I think in smaller groups or at that time I did better in smaller groups and then at the end it felt like, Oh, this is small and I know everyone and you know, I did that ensemble in college and studied political science actually. I really got interested in that. within different different clubs they are if you like it, yeah, Betsy Furler 7:42 I went to a similar school. I went to Austin College in Sherman, Texas, and it had 1200 students at the time as the same and I'm super social extrovert, but I do think that those I think it's important for parents to hear about college experiences and understand that, you know, the differences between a small school and a big school, you know, in a small school, and you can be a bigger fish in a smaller pond, but in the same time, you'd have less of a variety of friends to choose from a variety of people, right? Rachel Hawkins 8:22 brands, activities. Betsy Furler 8:25 Right, right. So there are limits as well. It's I think it's really important to, to talk through that with with your kids with neuro diversity and who are neurotypical for that matter. Rachel Hawkins 8:37 Right. And I know now that they have a lot more programs for students that are neurodiverse on these big top campuses. Yeah, but I think at the time and the person that I was back then it was it was a good experience for me. This in kind of a big town area, go off campus with people, we could walk to different places in the town, which is really great. So it was I think it worked well for me. Then in graduate school, I lived in Center City, Philadelphia. I went to temple for Occupational Therapy, and I did really well although some field work. were challenging because of my social interaction. So that and that has been a theme throughout my some of my work career as well. Interacting with my clients and the parents and other teachers. Betsy Furler 9:45 And do you do realize you were on the autism spectrum at the time during grad school? Rachel Hawkins 9:51 I think so. Because I think in I think it was college that I went to different high It says and my parents and I had been to different conferences, I forget how we got really connected to the whole autism community. So I think we, we figured it out by then. Like I was at a self advocacy group in Pennsylvania, where we had a representative, I think, from each county and we, we went to the 10 state autism conference one year, and I met Scott Robertson, who's a big name in these and he's an autistic adult in the Department of Labor. And I also presented to support staff about being on the spectrum and just about my life, and what works for me, and and I said, attend to different conferences and meetings. I'm involved now with the autism network group in DC. See what they're creating around that? Betsy Furler 11:04 How do you think that your, your neuro diversity has helped you in the field of occupational therapy? And then we'll talk about the advocacy because that's that, you know, that's another piece Rachel Hawkins 11:18 of your life. Right? Well, I think it definitely gives me a an understanding of the people that I work with, although now and try to get into a little bit of a different project from the different angles that I'm able to understand what it's like for the individual and their family and their sibling, siblings. I think my temperament sometimes can be a strength in other in therapy roles that you might expect this to It seems like there's a lot of the like, high energy and cheerleader type. And I'm the opposite of that, which in some instances works really well. And by very creative and hardworking or perseverance, and I've heard it said that people with neuro diverse conditions or any defense villi you are perseverance because you're you don't fit into the, you know, typical way of doing things and you have to work sometimes harder to either fit in or to develop. So, those are some ways that it has played out to me. Good memory. Another thing. Uh huh. What Betsy Furler 12:54 are you good at paperwork Rachel Hawkins 12:58 I'm Time, Betsy Furler 13:01 like writing reports and being able to remember the details of what the child did during the assessment and writing accurate reports. Rachel Hawkins 13:16 I think in some ways I actually back in my end, at a summer camp when I was a teenager, I met a there was a counselor there voice, a voice teacher, and I took lessons with her because that was another thing, baby, you know, working on my intonation so that you can hear I'm not as expressive maybe in that way as other people. So she had two children, and one was dyslexic, and one they said was hyperelastic. And what hyperlexia mean, meant, was very good and right in and written words and not as good with So, verbal communication. So I, I am a good writer and reader was really, you know, read a lot as a child and growing up I think, yeah, I think I am a good writer and I but I developed my social ability as well throughout my life. Betsy Furler 14:27 Now, that's I think one of the things about being diagnosed or self diagnosing is when you get that insight into yourself. That helps tremendously, you know, for all of us, it's like once you start understanding how you tick and how you walk through the world, it's so much easier than to see how see the differences and the similarities. And also this, you know, the growth you had can have so much more growth if you undyed yourself. What obviously being an advocate for other people with neuro diversity. And obviously, you have a strength there because you I know what, what your life has been like. And you've also, you've also found a way to be a professional in the field, then is instrumental in helping a lot of people in our diversity. So do you want to talk a little bit about being an advocate and kind of what you want to do what you're looking to do next in your career? Rachel Hawkins 15:35 Sure. Interesting, because I, I did not come into this field because of this reason to reveal the but yeah, it's been being in the field. realized that as someone that is on the autism spectrum, and that's how I'd like to I'd like to say it That I'm able to make an impact for others. And I think I'm the only one with autism so far that's been on here. So say that there's a quote, if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism. So we're all very, very different. Betsy Furler 16:19 Actually, Rachel Hawkins 16:20 like, there's, you know, and to take input, what I'm saying. So I got into the idea that, well, I went to the set, I went to the Penn State autism content years ago, and I met from parents who said that kind of the idea of like, me being an inspiration, and I know how some other people, you know, feel about that, that we shouldn't be seen as that. But I felt that I was able to be an example of like, what their child could be like. As their child grows up, and so last night, I went to the autism network symposium up in Philadelphia. My dad also went because he and I always mentioned this because he obviously is always there to support me. And he's also a season ticket holder of eagles and it was held at Eagle Stadium, Lincoln financial field. So we went and I met these people in different leadership roles and companies like SAP and other companies that are leading the front on autism network. And so I really got into, like wanting to educate people. You know, this whole field of diversity and inclusion Make a difference for people that are just think differently that have about to offer. Betsy Furler 18:08 Right, right. And I think if our if ever if we all thought the same in this world, our world would not be very interesting or productive, right? I need everybody's different abilities and different views and different strengths to make the world, the place that we really want it to be. And I think the more we use people to their strengths, the better our world will be. And I think that's, that's one thing that including people with different abilities into into inclusion and diversity programs and in companies I think is so important because of that, Rachel Hawkins 18:47 right? Yeah. And I actually have a presentation I've worked develop, that I'm available to speak to different organizations presenting that variety is the spice of work. And I talked about that at the, you know, it covers a lot of different things. But one thing is, like you said, you know that it will make the company better if you have a people that think differently and different ideas and the people that came out with these breakthrough discoveries and stuff, were the people that thought outside the box, and we're not like everyone else. And I think we're moving in that direction of recognizing that, but you still have a long way to go. Betsy Furler 19:36 Yes, Yes, we do. But that sounds I made that presentation. Sounds great. I love the title. Yeah. Thank you. So if people want to get in touch with you either to have you present and in, you know, at their conference or their workplace or for consulting services, or they're just interested in your story, how should they connect with you? Rachel Hawkins 19:59 Well, a lot of LinkedIn, you can find me there. That might be a good place to start. And then I can I can give my email and email out there. Betsy Furler 20:12 Okay, yeah. And I can put that in my show notes. I'll put your email address and your LinkedIn. Link in my show notes. And I know people are going to really benefit from hearing you on the podcast and are going to want to connect with you. So thank you so much for being here today. Rachel Hawkins 20:32 Thank you, Betsy for having me. Betsy Furler 20:34 Yes, this has been great. So thank you and I will talk to you soon and listeners. Thanks so much for tuning into for all abilities the podcast. Please subscribe and review the podcast on Apple or Stitcher, radio or anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thanks for tuning in. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
For All Abilities – The Podcast - Tim Irr In this episode, I interview Tim Irr - Anchor WSAZ-TV in West Virginia. We discuss the challenges of his ADHD. Tim talks about his childhood and the challenges he faced in the classroom. He discusses how he ended up in television news and how it is the perfect fit for his strengths. Read more about Tim here: https://www.wsaz.com/content/bios/235415031.html To connect with Tim, please follow him on LinkedIn (Tim Irr), email him at tim.irr@wsaz.com or connect on Twitter https://twitter.com/WSAZirr. Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Transcription from otter.ai. 0:07 Hi, welcome back to for all abilities. Today I have another very special guest who's going to talk to us about ADHD and how it's shaped his life. So welcome Tim Irr to the for all abilities podcast. Well, thanks, Betsy. Thanks for having me. I'm honored to even be a part of this and to talk about this because obviously, it's something that affects a lot of people. Yes, yes, I started this podcast so I can let people with all different types of ways their brains work, whether it's whether they have ADHD diagnosed or not, or dyslexia or learning difference or autism, I want them and their families to know how successful they can be and how this really can be a superpower rather than having to be a weakness as sometimes our society interprets it. So let's try. I'm excited to 1:00 Have you? Will you please introduce yourself to the audience and tell us what you do and and then we can go a little bit into your background. Sure. 1:10 My name is Tim Orr and I am a news anchor and reporter at W sec TV. It's an NBC affiliate in the Huntington, Charleston, West Virginia market. And I've been doing this now I'm 54 soon to turn 55 and I've been I've been at the station for 25 years. And as as is typical with somebody who has ADHD, I didn't even realize that the Christmas party when they called me up and said, You've been here 25 years I thought, I thought it was 24 this year, but 1:43 I did the math, my head which I've never been very good at and I went Oh yeah, I had been here 25 years. So it's gone by quickly and it's been a great situation and I've been I work as the evening news anchor doing the four 536 2:00 10 and 11 so they've added newscast. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's it's a busy day. That's a long day. Yeah. We Well, my, my family and I love West Virginia. It's one of our favorite places to go on vacation too. Yeah, it's so beautiful. And we we really like it love the beach or just play friendly. And so you've had a long, successful career. 2:23 Tell us a little bit about your childhood and what it was like with ADHD? What kind of student were you? You know, give us the good, the bad and the ugly. Okay. And there's a lot of it. And I'll you know, to give you the Reader's Digest version, I grew up in Pittsburgh, born and raised in Pittsburgh. That's where my family's all from. I was the youngest of six. And as my mom and dad said, every single child is different as any parent knows. Whether you've had two children or 10 children, do you know that every child is individual in their own 3:00 unique way and you know the thing that I remember most about my childhood and an education and ADHD was back then number one, we didn't diagnose it that there wasn't a there. Nobody discussed Oh, he must be a DD or ADHD. It was just that every parent teacher conference, my poor mom would go to down the st. Sebastian school in Pittsburgh. Every single one she would come home from that disgruntled shaking her head, having the same conversation with my dad and with me about how it's the same story with every semester with every teacher year after year. Tim, he's a nice boy. He just doesn't pay attention in class. And he's, you know, he's, he doesn't pay attention. And he, especially in the classes, the thing that I had the most trouble with, were the classes that I didn't really feel had and I had an interest in 3:58 math class. I struggled 4:00 mightily in math, any type of math subject anything that was analytical and problem solving on that level on a mathematical level I really struggled with. And I tried. And I remember the thing I remember the most about that those post parent teacher conference meetings with my parents, is the next day, waking up and getting ready and going to school and and I remember clearly walking to the bus stop and thinking, it's going to be different. I'm going to change, I'm going to pay attention. I can do this. And I really wanted to convince myself that I would be a different student. Now the classes I had an interest in social studies classes, English classes, I was fine. I had no problem. I could generally pay attention, although I would drift a little bit. But I could generally pay attention to the classes that I was really interested in and apply myself in those classes. It was the difficult classes, the math and the science, the analytical classes that I really struggled with 5:00 And, and I made a solemn vow to myself every every semester every year after each parent teacher conference, I'm going to be different and I wanted to be I really didn't. It wasn't that I was like, I hate school. I don't like this, you know, that teachers stupid. It wasn't like that I really, in my mind, had a plan to go in and make things different and really try to pay attention and I tried. And then that breaks my heart would start and 5:29 I go in there and so I really did. I was in you know, for the classes I liked, I would say I was in. I was a B average B student. The classes I really liked that did really well in and I enjoyed, and I was engaged and I was a participant in all the discussions and classes. And that continued through through school through grade school into high school algebra, just geometry, same thing. Just struggle. 6:00 Tried, 6:02 I'd work hard. I just couldn't get over that it was like a mountain to try to comprehend. And I couldn't, I kept slipping down that mountain, it was like, my feet would fail. And I'd slip and I try to get back up and I just, I could never climb that mountain of information that seemed to be just impossible for me to learn. And I remember when the, you know, the drift would kick in, and I'd start to look out the window and, and then I try to snap myself back in and pay attention and then I start to be lost. And it was it was it was frustrating, but I didn't know why. And there was no, I never saw a doctor about it. There was never much discussion other than boy, Tim, you better pay attention in school, you know, and I have been hard on your self esteem. It was, you know, in those classes, you know, I remember and I'll be very candid about it. I remember looking over during tests in those classes and trying to copy off somebody who was next to me to try to see what answers they 7:00 Because it was just, you know, and then in the classes I liked, I never maybe people were copying off of me. I had read, write, blast. I love those classes. And those are the early grade school science classes that weren't as analytical and work informational. So I was able to process information and store it and repeat that information in testing and in classroom discussion. I just could not process the analytics. It was just difficult was always an always an issue with me all the way through college. 7:32 What did you major in in college? majored in the subject at Duquesne University in Pittsburgh was Media Arts and I started it I went to Duquesne because I got an internship and my senior year of high school. Bye, bye. My final semester senior year I only need three classes. So that's what I mean. I did I did find in school I ran on subjects I need, I got everything out of the way. struggled, you know, and by then I knew and my parents knew that, you know, there wasn't 8:00 Going to be a a future career in anything having to do with doing any kind of 8:07 forget it and you got a business degree now that was off the table. But I majored in media arts and senior year got an internship, senior of high school got an internship at a radio station, and it happened to be on the Duquesne University campus. And then they offered what amounted to basically like a scholarship where I would get a student a job and be paid through the university to work at the radio station. So I started applying myself and communications right away and did did plays, you know, memorizing lines, again, no problem. I could do plays, I could memorize it, and I was the lead in a number of plays in high school and college. So the memorization was not a problem. And the problem was, specifically those those analytics and that's where that's where it kicked in. And that's where I really noticed that I had a problem paying attention 9:00 But it all it went to other levels of my life. And, you know, as I look back on that, and it still affects me today as an adult. 9:10 I'm on the Autism Services Board, local autism Services Board. And the board of directors and the Board of Directors meetings when we have the finance meetings. I'm literally biting. It's kind of like funny when I think about it, but it's kind of sad. I'm literally biting my lips or squeezing my fingers to pay attention to the Financial Report. Because Right, right, it's like being back in math class, I the same thing, and I and I struggle, I pay attention. I drink coffee. I've got to stay awake. I'd have to stay with this thing. We get through the financial report, and then the rest of the board meetings about 9:48 things that I can comprehend, but it's still to this day, and my wife will tell me the same thing. She'll say, I told you that and I'll say I'm sorry. And you know, I guess I wasn't 10:00 I didn't hear I didn't pay attention it didn't process properly in my brain. And that's interesting to to think about the the processing piece of it rather than that just not paying attention. Right? Yeah, it's like your brain is turning off 10:17 because it's you're struggling so much to process that then you kind of end up turning it off and and not really getting the information at all right? It's like the the Charlie Brown teacher in the old Charlie Brown cartoons, TV, walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, that's what I would hear what just like Charlie Brown's teacher at that. It just kind of went right through me and you know, to borrow the phrase in one ear and out the other. That's That's right. 10:45 Well, how cool that somehow you got into a career. Yeah, that works perfectly for your brain because I I'm not even sure I told you this information, Tim, but 10:59 for 11:00 abilities is also a software. So we've developed software to help employers support their employees with ADHD, dyslexia learning differences and autism. Yeah, and I'm really passionate about employers being able to support their employees, especially early. 11:17 You know, for instance, if you were, you know, doing a radio show when you were in, in college, 11:23 and then they might want you to do the accounting for them on the side, you know, that that would be a terrible use of your of your strengths, right? It would be right and you'll probably would have failed at the job because of that add on, at that add on task that's has nothing to do with what you're actually doing. Right. Um, so So it sounds like you got you got into exactly the right thing you needed to be into and started I'm sure started succeeding at that and you were, you know, amazing at it and 11:57 that probably helps so much with selfless 12:00 And your purpose in life. I really think that's true and I I learned a lesson in my 20s when I got out of business. The job that I had my first job in TV out of college was in Clarksburg, West Virginia as a TV reporter and anchor and, and I seem to be, you know, I did well, I think, you know, when I look back on it, and I, I took another job, moved to Charleston, West Virginia and worked at a TV station there right at the time I got married. And so my wife moved from Pittsburgh where we both went to high school together, and she helped me by the way and classes sometimes. 12:41 She was there for me in the final semester senior and we finally met. So 12:47 we moved to Charleston, West Virginia. I took a job there at a TV station. Then I had an opportunity to move back home to Pittsburgh and work at a station there. WETA in Pittsburgh as an assignment editor, so I 13:00 was off the air and doing assignments, didn't really like the job because I liked storytelling and I liked reporting and, and I liked what I really, I think, enjoyed and and flourished and was the reporting aspects. Because in this job and the job that I currently have anchoring and reporting, at the end of each day, that day ends and you go home, and then you come in the next day and everything's new again. There's, you know, it's like, I don't need to the desk is wiped clean, everything's gone and you start fresh the next day. So 13:38 everything and it's all new when I was when I got out of that job in Pittsburgh, because I really didn't enjoy it and I thought I'd try public relations and I worked for a hospital in Pittsburgh. 13:49 And it was more 13:52 task oriented and I again, I would have while I was sitting in my office working on what I consider to be kind of 14:00 Boring menial tasks. Compared to what I was doing in reporting, I would have given anything for somebody to have run into my office and said, We need you to pick up a camera and run down. Drive two hours, there's a huge fire in a warehouse. Because not to do that means it's a break in the day for me. 14:20 I pick up a camera and I you know, in that, that rough description of a job, pick up a camera, run to an event, whether it's a planned event, or a breaking news event, run to the event and and record that event and tell the story now, that's that's what I can do. And that's what I enjoy doing. won awards doing it it's, it's, it's, it's what I really enjoy doing. And when I got out of that business in my 20s and tried public relations, I realized this isn't for me. And I kind of knew I had to get out. My wife knew I wasn't happy doing that job. More task oriented again. I wasn't you know, 15:00 I wasn't doing what I enjoy doing. And an old boss of mine got in touch with me. And I got back into the business and I ended up in this at this station. He hired me back. And within a short amount of time I started anchor in the morning news. And then the evening news anchor job came open when there was a retire, retirement and I got that, and I've been doing that for more than 20 years now. Yeah, that's amazing. So how has your ADHD superpower and your ability to do the job that you're doing now as a news anchor? I think you were right, Betsy, it's it's like the perfect job for me. And you know, that's what I was alluding to. It's just 15:40 that my ability to be able to, I found the I found that superpower that ability to be able to, to get information, process that information, and then tell the story. So being a storyteller because that's the bottom line with being a reporter. 16:00 You're telling a story. If If you walk outside, and you see your neighbor on the sidewalk, you're as a storyteller, you're naturally going to you listen to it, listen to what somebody tells you, you process that story. And then you tell that story. And so you are a storyteller. And that ability to to process certain information and and then relay that story to another person or in this case to an entire audience. 16:31 I've been able to do that, to a level that if somebody asked me too, when my kids asked me, for example, to help them with math, I just defer to my wife because even it you know, took me back to those days of grade school and I wasn't able to do that very well. That really the story of telling the story of numbers is not something I'm strong at but I found what I was able to do tapped into it and and I've been able to do it 17:00 I think to extraordinary measure and and it's been, it was really funny when I think back on in back to grade school in seventh and eighth grade we had something called the junior Academy of Science in Pennsylvania. And what you would do is you could create a project that would be either a visual project like I'm going to make a volcano on a table and and show how the volcano erupts. Kind of like Peter Brady did in the Brady Bunch. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Or you could prepare a subject you could research a subject, do your project on your own, and then report that project. And so then you would stand up in front of this this group of judges, a roomful judges, and you would report your findings and I thought, well, that's what I'll do my I remember my teacher in seventh grade Mr. gessle. birdie, encouraging me to do that. He said, You're a good storyteller. You can you know, you get up in front of the class you tell a good story. I think this would be good for you do this research. Come up, come up with a project 18:00 do the research. And then basically what I was doing was reporting on it. So I, I came up with a plan to, to test 18:09 the effects of companionship and sound essentially, 18:14 on plants and how plants would grow. Right. So I had three test plants one would be in a room that had loud music playing I used I think the kiss destroyer album. So I played loud music one, I played softer classical music to another. And then I the other plant was in total silence. They all received the same amount of light. But they were tested by this companionship, this this music. The two plants that received the music did the best. The plant that was in total silence didn't grow very well. So I reported my findings. I did research through the library at the time, there was no internet back then. So I did library research on psychological effects of 19:00 companionship and relationships to humans and to animals. Then two subjects that were left alone. And I realized that, that it all kind of coincided with what I had learned about these plants. So I recorded my findings and put together a, I think five to 10 minute speech it was with cue cards and slides at the time. So I use presentations and my my presentation that I put together for these judges at one first place, so on to the States, I went and then I won first place there. And wow kid who is probably getting a C or a D. And that same science class back. Yeah, it's a Sebastian's and I won the state title un state. Yeah. Because I was able to tap into something and, and, and I, it's like I found myself. Yeah, use your strength. 19:57 Yeah, and imagine what so imagine 20:00 If same project, but you had to do a written report with all of the formulas and variables and all of that, imagine the different outcome he would have had. And yeah, that's a great story about strengths and how how, you know, I reports in school or projects in schools as well as things in the workplace and things I'm adult life can be tweaked a bit to allow that person's strengths to really shine. And it doesn't mean it's unfair or less work, right, you probably more work than a lot of broken record. Right. I put a lot of work into it. And I can only imagine the eggheads, the super brainiacs. Super analytical brainiacs in school who were like, they were probably thinking like, how did he win state 21:00 barely passed this class. How did he do that? But you know, I found a strength and I, I tapped into it. And I found that's what I was good at. And that's what I did. And I, I won a science project that was best. But it really wasn't a science project when the turn when it came right down to it. It was a reporting project. And I found I found the strength then, and tapped into it. And little did I know that that that was kind of the foundation and formation of what would be success in life for me. Yeah, that's, that's a great story. That really, that really shows the power of using someone's strength. Yeah. So thanks for sharing all of that with us. You're so thanks for asking. Yeah, this is this has been great. How can my listeners connect with you further? They can find me on Twitter. I'm at ws AZ that's the call letters of our station w sec IRR is my 22:00 ws AZ ir and same thing on Facebook at Ws h er, or just a Google search of my name which is six letters, ti m IRR. Most people just call me Timmy or they don't even call me Tim they call me all my kids friends when I was little I was I hate Timmy or hates me, it was like, 22:20 people can find me through that and, and also through the station website through ws eysies. website and I, obviously I have no problem talking about it. So I'd be happy to share and help parents of children or 22:37 family members of adults with ADHD who might be struggling to try to help them in whatever way I can. Whatever way I could, even through encouragement, I'd love to be able to help people. That would be awesome. And I think it's so important for people to hear these stories like yours where you've been so successful, and I'm sure there were times when you were young. 23:00 When your parents were like, oh no what are we going to do with this one is 23:04 going to be living with us for the rest of his life. Are we ever going to get him out of school? 23:10 Oh, I'm sure probably was a real concern for the minute it was. You know if I would have gone if life would have gone in a different direction and let's say I would have 23:19 followed in my dad's footsteps and gone into the business world. I might have been a colossal and I hate to say it but like professionally, I could have been a colossal failure. I could have, you know, maybe made you know, 23:34 and not if not, and the other thing is not have been happy doing it. When I had a chance to get back like this business. I was very fortunate. It was like getting a second chance at love when you when you've lost that love and I got back into it and, and it gave me now my best day, my worst day and on the job, and this job is better than my best day when I worked in private industry, in an office and so on. 24:00 A song what I want. Yeah. Well, and that's so to me, it's so important that everybody is feels valued and as also happy and what they're doing. And so that's it's, I love hearing these stories. Well, Tim, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for eligibility podcast. Yes, great. And to my listeners, please reach out to Tim if he can help you in any way and watch him on the knees in West Virginia. And please subscribe to my podcast and on anything you listen to your podcasts on. And contact me at Betsy at portal abilities. com If you'd like to get in touch. Have a great day and I will see you all later. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Five - Leann Kabat - Thriving with a Different Brain In this episode, I interview Leanne Kabat of The 5 Seasons Life. Leanne Kabat is an author, speaker and host of The 5 Seasons Life Podcast. She created The 5 Seasons Strategy to help people harness the transformational power of every season to be brave and bold in their life, love and business. We discuss the challenge of her brain disease, her struggles in being a wife and mother with a brain that works differently and her ultimate use of that brain as her super power that allowed her to start The 5 Seasons Life and write books! Leanne also discusses how she helps other women on their entrepreneurial journey. To connect with Leanne, please go to 5seasonsofconnection.com or follow her on LinkedIn (Leanne Kabat), Instagram @5seasonslife or Twitter @5seasonslife To order her books go to: https://www.amazon.com/author/leannekabat Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Unknown Speaker 0:01 Okay, it is recordings. I will just be silent for a few seconds. Unknown Speaker 0:09 Hi for all abilities listeners, please thank you so much for tuning in today. And please remember to subscribe to the podcast on whatever podcast station you listen to. Today I have another special guest with me today I have my friend Leanne, and Leanne, why don't you introduce yourself to my audience? Unknown Speaker 0:30 Absolutely. Thank you so much, Betsy. So my name is Leanne Cabot and I am the founder and creator of the five seasons life, and I'm an author and a speaker. So I'm super excited to be here. Unknown Speaker 0:42 Awesome. Well, you have a very unique brain condition. And so I wanted to have you on the show so you could tell the people all about how you are living your full life with this spring condition. So we'll Start with your childhood, although, I know you didn't have the brain condition at that time, but go ahead and tell us about your childhood kind of how school was and what you did after you graduated from high school and all of that kind of thing. Unknown Speaker 1:13 Yeah, so, um, I was a really advanced student, I was a super reader and I was, you know, a kid that probably would have been beaten up in many circumstances. You know, I was just that, you know, I wanted to answer every question I was jumping out of my seat to, you know, to be the one to, you know, kind of fill in the blanks or come up to the board. Like I was really that kid and it got me very far. You know, I was very successful in high school, I went to multiple different high schools just from moving. And each time I found my space. I was, you know, elected for various offices in different high schools. In my career. As I started out, I was promoted very quickly, so there was a lot of benefit. It to, you know, the power that I felt like I had in my brain could retain, you know, lots of information and just be one of those super performing people. So I had, you know, I operated at a very high level and I love that. Unknown Speaker 2:16 So tell us what happened when, I guess what were you doing in your life when you got sick? Unknown Speaker 2:23 Yeah, so my husband's company had just been purchased by a major player in Redmond, Washington. So we had just been moved from Canada over to the west coast and we had moved into our house two months earlier, everything was in disarray. We had boxes just arriving in, you know, from the shipping company. And my husband was called down to California for a business trip. And so life was just very busy. I had two toddlers at home or two young children, a four year old and a two year old, and I was five months pregnant. Unknown Speaker 2:59 So Wow, Unknown Speaker 3:00 just a super busy time like physically and then emotionally with, you know, kind of getting two little kids sorted out finding our way in our new neighborhood and then just dealing with being pregnant. I mean, that's always as you know, as strain on you emotionally and physically. So there was no moving parts at the time. Unknown Speaker 3:20 Yeah, that's a unique situation. Yeah. Tell us what happened. Unknown Speaker 3:26 So as I said, My husband was in California business trip and I was just particularly tired. So I crawled into bed with the two kids and I just said, You know what, we're going to read a story and we're all going to go to sleep and I don't even know that it was eight o'clock. It was super early. For me. I mean, it was their bedtime but it was super early for me. So we all just crawled into bed we fell asleep pretty quickly and then in the middle of the night, I just needed to go to the bathroom. And so I crawled over one of them. And as soon as I stood up, everything just kind of spun but in a very busy Our way and I collapsed onto the floor. And I bow. And I wasn't blocked out very long because I kind of was able to crack my eyes in the very smallest way. But I was frozen on the floor for multiple hours. I could not move, I couldn't speak I couldn't get up. Like I was literally paralyzed on the floor and I had fallen forward. So I was on the baby, right? I was I was on my own. And that did not make it a less stressful situation. In fact, I was just so panicked. And you know, I was begging and pleading and you know, if I could have cried I would have cried like I was just in such a state of, you know, this frenetic state from that experience. And then a couple of hours later, it was just before seven and then I started to get hot like my whole body was burning things started Spin like vertigo setting in this ridiculously you know pronounced way and I was able to move. So I got myself up, I cleaned up, you know, my mess, I got the children out of bed, I got them some cereal and I went down to the hospital. And I just said we need to check on this baby. And they didn't know what it was, but it really set off this multi month exploration, you know, project so before the baby was born, it was non invasive. You know, there were a lot of tests that that they could do, which wouldn't impact me and then when the baby was born in July, and he was healthy, thank goodness, the testing intensified and I really saw everybody you know, like one doctor thought, Oh, it has to be epilepsy. Let's put you in the hospital for three days and trigger your seizures and one person. I think she might have many years disease or, you know, I think it might be Lyme disease. Let's go check that No, no, it's definitely a blood clot or Wow, I think it's a tumor. Let's check that right. So what Just became this massive, you know, puzzle that everybody wanted to put their piece into the puzzle for and it was exhausting. And I had a newborn we were still kind of finding our way in the world, like it was literally the darkest night of the soul that whole year 2006 was terrible. But in November, they called me back in, and they had all of my brain scans and they had, you know, all of my test results kind of spread out all over the table. And they walked me through what they had seen, you know, you have a p fo, so you have this little hole in your heart, and you have this other little thing. And so they just kind of identified a couple of the test results that would have been significant. And they said, you know, in and of itself, none of these things will cause this problem again, but together, it is this bundling that led to, you know, what we're looking at, which is this hypoperfusion of your frontal cortex, right, like so you have brain damage in this space. And you know, you had to oxygen deprivation and then these other contributing factors have really created this perfect storm. And we don't know what it is. But we know what's going to kill you. Unknown Speaker 7:11 Oh, wow. Unknown Speaker 7:12 And I just sat there and I thought, What are you talking about? Like, I have a baby at home, I have three babies at home. I am not dying. And they said, You are dying. And we're pretty confident it will be within five years. Unknown Speaker 7:31 Wow. Unknown Speaker 7:33 And at the time, I mean, I was you know, at the time, I was very confused, right. So whatever this condition was, for me, left me in a very altered state, you know? Now I would say, why do you think that you know, or show me the evidence or, like I would have pushed back but in the moment, I was just like, oh my god, they know. They know and I know nothing and I am now dying and so on. For the next three years or so, I really started to die, you know, things started to get harder. My processing was super slow. And I was definitely exhibiting kind of all of the classic signs of executive functioning disorder. You know, I went through a couple of neuro psychologists and I finally got to one who was very interested in digging in and kind of getting into the meat of the problem. And that was probably one of the most fascinating experiences because I had never really taken any classes in psychology. I didn't study the brain. You know, my ex, my education is in journalism and in education, but not in that, you know, kind of holistic psychology way. So I was super, super excited to dig into this with her and, you know, there was a list of many things I know, you know, many people who have executive functioning problems, you know, there's different levels of what the issue is, right? So it's either a working memory problem or there's, you know, initiation issues, or maybe there's time management organization problems. And, you know, there's probably eight to 14 general categories to which you can be, you know, tested against in your function. And as I was going through, it was two days of testing eight hours a day, and I was doing, you know, a variety of tests. So it was definitely not just one modality, you know, I had to build things physically, I had to sort things, I had to calculate things. I had to use an abacus, which I had never used in my life, you know, I had to, you know, organize blocks, I had to move rings on these little skewer, like just all kinds of different tests that they and I'm sure you know, all of these as well. Yeah. And at the end of the whole process, you know, I left her with all of the data Research I had done some IQ testing, and some other cognitive testing and some online things. And I was called back a few weeks after that experience and she walked me through everything and it was really interesting to hear her take, you know, that I was very highly functioning in ways that she would not have expected someone like me to be. And I was very smart, you know, so my IQ was very high and I had very high functioning but the the areas in which I had suffered some sort of damage or some sort of, you know, impact were severely impacted. It was very black and white, there was not well, you know, perhaps before you were also weak in this area, she was like, No, you cannot be as functional as you are, and have always had these issues. These had to have been a result of your traumatic brain experience. Whatever this brain crash was. And so, you know, I wasn't exhibiting things in impulse control, you know, or in some of the initiation areas, which are typical in TV eyes, but I definitely had, you know, things had come up in which my processing was severely broken. So I could take a problem to a certain point, and then it literally just stopped. It was almost then, like, we are no longer speaking English, and I have no clue what to do next. Uh huh. And she was just she found that very fascinating. So she worked with me a little bit longer to develop some treatments that she felt would, you know, take advantage of this new burgeoning area of neuro plasticity, right. So one of the things that she had recommended for me was, you know, my children were young at the time they were still young. And so she asked me to go purchase Unknown Speaker 11:57 this toy and I was like, oh, Okay, I can get it. So she wrote it down, and I went to Target and I bought the toy. And it was a stuffed animal. And it was, you know, I picked a kitten, or whatever I picked, and the company was Webkinz. And so I came home and there was a code in the little kitten tag. And so I went to the website, I put in the code. And basically, this was, you know, like, a way for children to start learning these basic skills. You know, so it would be pattern recognition or number sense, or it would be, you know, word games or, you know, you build the bridges to help the turtle get across the river or something, you know, like, it was just these very, very basic games. I don't know if I struggled with anything harder than I struggled with these games at that time. And I went back to her and I said, I can't do this. Like I don't know how to build words when you give me six years. Dependent letters that aren't belonging to each other. Unknown Speaker 13:03 You know, I don't know, interesting, but could you read at the time? I could totally read. Unknown Speaker 13:08 only read Wow, would not reconstruct a word. And wow, that's fascinating. Unknown Speaker 13:17 And so this game, this Webkinz, you know, this little, you know, this little program turned out to be one of the most instrumental tools to my healing because as she went through the Webkinz site on her side, she would send me games that she wanted me to play, and I needed to log how I was performing. So like, did I get to 10? You know, how long did it take me to get to 15 points? When did I get to 50 points and all of that. And the point of this game is really, you know, to empower children so that they can build on their basic function, but for me, it was really a way to quickly and pretty accurately figure out where my brain stopped working the way she would have expected to work through a problem. And so I worked on all of these games. And the funny thing was, at the time, I don't even know if Webkinz is even a thing anymore, but at the time, the more you played the games, you earned these points. And you could then use these points to purchase things for your toy, right? So there was an animated version of the toy like this kitten. And so after you earned you know, 1000 points, you could buy your kitten a sweater, or you're hitting some mittens or something. And I got to the point, you know, within probably six months that I had purchased multiple toys, because you could only play a certain amount per day. I guess this was Unknown Speaker 14:49 right, trying to control the screen time, of course, Unknown Speaker 14:52 so they were just like, sorry, you've met your maximum hundred minutes or whatever. And I was like, Unknown Speaker 14:56 nothing. No, no. So I went back to target I bought Unknown Speaker 14:59 another toilet And at one point, I had multiple Unknown Speaker 15:02 toys going on at one time. And Unknown Speaker 15:05 they really like I had enough to buy them mansions, and they all had cars, and they had wardrobes, because it was just a, you know, a reflection of how many hours I spent working through these, you know, basic patterns, and word games and, you know, number things like that. So, that was just an interesting, you know, just an interesting side note on how people could use, you know, something so innocent to really kind of dig into the complexities of brain processing. Unknown Speaker 15:35 Yeah, and I will have to say that a throwback to my old podcast, your app lady, and I do find that there are so many games out there that were maybe developed for children and all the apps you know, we have so many app games now. But so many of them are so good for, to work on processing, even to work on brain health, you know, just exercising your brain Even for adults, and some of them work can be really fun. Sometimes they're more fun when it's like, you're getting to buy a mansion for your kitty than it is when you're just, you know, getting a checkmark or something that's like so. Unknown Speaker 16:12 Yeah, I definitely found at the time, so she had recommended some other, you know, brain training games. And at the time, I don't remember what they were called, but they were, you know, more advanced and I felt stupid. And I felt inadequate, and I felt frustrated because I know what I had been capable of before. Unknown Speaker 16:31 Right. Right. Unknown Speaker 16:33 To me, it was I just got angry, you know, and I didn't necessarily have anger issues, you know, typically in my life, but I was very angry in this. So when I had found this child program, I, it was a celebration, right? Everything went colorful, and I felt empowered to keep playing and to try the next thing and, you know, when I missed an answer, it was like, that's okay. You can do it again. Leanna Did you know that kind of tender love that you would want for a, you know, a healing brain? Right. And so it was, it was perfect. I couldn't have made it through without a lot of the brain training from that game in particular. Unknown Speaker 17:18 So once you I guess at some point, you probably reached kind of a new normal with Unknown Speaker 17:27 your brain being different than what it was before. How, what other like, in, in practical ways as far as, especially as far as your working life? How? In what ways was your brain different and how did you use those differences? Maybe to your advantage, maybe is there a superpower or how did you overcome those, the differences in your brain that you hadn't had before? When you were going into back to work? Unknown Speaker 18:00 Yeah, um, Unknown Speaker 18:03 so there's two quick little stories that I will share about, you know, kind of illustrating what that looked like the first one was a little bit earlier. And so earlier in my, you know, earlier, closer to my crash, and my daughter had come to me, she was probably four at the time, and she just asked for cheese string. And I said, Yes, of course, you can have a cheese string, that's fine. So she took one out of the fridge, and she was trying to open it, and she just couldn't. And so she handed it to me and said, Mommy, can you open this G string? And I said, Well, of course I can. And so I start trying to reach for the two pieces of plastic, you know, that you pull apart to extract the cheese. And I'm squeezing, and I'm twisting, and I can't find the end. So I'm twisting a little more. And I'm squeezing it and I'm getting a little bit hot, and I'm feeling flushed, and I don't I'm like, I can't open this cheese. What is wrong with me? I am so dumb. I can't do this. And I'm twisting and I'm squeezing it and so The cheese is getting warm and it started to melt. And I was just starting to bash myself in a way that I had never done before. But it really was an avenue for which I needed to say, Leanne, you can't do anything anymore. You can't do anything. You are so awful. You are so pathetic. And this critic just reared its ugly head and I couldn't make it stop because I didn't know how to open the cheese string. And so I literally grabbed the cheese string, I put it on the counter, I grabbed a cleaver and I chopped it in half, and the two ends of the cheese string went flying in my kitchen and I looked over at her and I was hot and sweaty and confused and angry. And she just looked at me with these huge eyes in terror. And I thought, Oh my gosh, I am a monster. You know, I just felt so much guilt in That moment. And I remember picking up the cheese string and putting it on the counter. I chased her down the hall, I apologized, I was crying. She was crying. You know, we kind of worked all that out. And I remember when my husband got home, I said, Can you can you open this G string? Like, can you show me how to do this? Because I really don't know. And he said, you know, you literally after holding it for three seconds, he said, Oh, it probably is an error from the factory, like the plastic has been fused together. Like there are no two sides to pull apart. Oh, wow. And I was like, Oh, my, you know, but immediately I went to have aligned yourself totally like, I am incapable. I can't do this basic thing. But in actual fact, like, this was just where I went out of my own fear of failing, but if I mean nobody could have been successful because you know, the plastic was fused and so it was just one of those. Okay, Leanne, you need to give yourself a little bit more grace. forward a couple of months, and I was in the kitchen. And I noticed a long, thin black or like super dark brown slug looking like thing on the base of my kitchen cabinets. And I called my sister and she lives in Canada. And I said, Oh my gosh, there's a slug in my kitchen. It's like under the cabinet and I think I'm going to die. And we don't really have slugs where I come from. So I was stressed out about that. I'm like, do they eat you? What do they do? And she's like, Oh my god, what do you think it you know, how do you how to get there? I have no idea. I must have let it in or that came in on the kids shoes. So for two days, all I could do was sit on the floor like 15 feet away and watch this slug and it didn't move. And I called her multiple times. And I said Dorothy, it's not moving like At what point do I just do Do something with this slug, like, do I squash it? Do I scoop it? What do I do? I studied it. And she said, Leanne, why isn't it moving? I said, I don't know. Maybe it's a sleep. And she's like, for two days. Let's can you get a little closer. So slowly over the conversation, I got closer to it. And I got closer to it. And I, you know, took a little toothpick because I was just going to flick at it. Well, I flicked at it, and I kind of cut through the whole slug shape. And I screamed, and she's like, Oh, my gosh, what happened? What happened? And I said, Wait a minute here if I cut it in half, and she's like, with a toothpick. And she said, Leann, are you sure it's a slug, and I got very close. So close, in fact that my nose was almost touching it and I just inhaled. And Betsy, it was Nutella. Oh, One of Unknown Speaker 23:01 my kids probably made a little Nutella sandwich and draw a number. Yeah, I literally was paralyzed in my house for two days. But, you know, had I had full function, right, I would not have been traumatized and you know, kind of paralyzed by this slub Nutella dripping, but I just couldn't process it in a way that, you know, I was able to overcome. So I clearly had work to do this in terms of like, what are exactly, you know, the executive functioning skills that I am lacking, like, specific, right? Definitely, I want to fix them. So I got very serious in identifying what those were. And then building processes into my day, you know, if it were checklists, if it was, you know, color coding my calendar, if it was to do list if it was family meeting so that we all you know, we're on the same page and if I was missing something Somebody else could help me, you know, kind of put it back in the conversation, we really had to build an infrastructure, right, like change the structure of the way our family operated, because I could not carry all the things anymore as the mother, because I just I couldn't physically like I just couldn't do it. Right. And I mean, of course, that's very empowering for my children, you know, giving them responsibility. They're very, you know, they have developed very strong social and emotional, you know, and kind of organizational skills because of my struggles and my challenges which is going to benefit them for sure. But it also you know, I recognize in my day to day life now as I run my business, as I run my family, I still bump into walls that you know, are lingering situations from my you know, my current and ongoing brain struggles so much as I can be high functioning again, as much as I have had, you know, Training and I've created workarounds. And I have done brain exercises to, you know, help me create new strategies for success. I bump into these walls all the time. And they're just another opportunity for me to say, oh, either I didn't fully make that a habit or Wow, this is new, I need to pay attention to what this is in my life, you know, to see if it had always been there, or right, a new symptom that's popping up for me because I, you know, I continue to have a degenerative brain condition from whatever the initial crashes were. Unknown Speaker 25:36 And how have you so So currently, I know that you've written a couple of books, two books, correct. You have two books published, I do by far and you are doing coaching with other women. So tell us a little bit about that. And how you think your brain condition has benefited you has given you kind of a different a different perspective on life that other people than other people might have. Unknown Speaker 26:09 Yeah, I mean, of course, anybody who has some sort of challenge can absolutely get stuck in looking at how hard it is for them versus how easy it must be for everybody else. Right. You know, there's no lie. I definitely I have been there. And I continue to find myself there sometimes. But I think one of the benefits of having this condition, I think there's a couple of benefits, but the main benefit for me and the work that I do is that I was given five years to live and I know it's been 13 right now, but I often think at the back of my mind, is this like a tarot card reader, you know, who doesn't always get the time, right, but they, you know, they know the, you know, the sequence of events that lead up to whatever they're giving you as your fortune. So I just think you know, if they got the time Wrong, what is important? You know, what do I want to have done with my one magnificent life that I wouldn't want to, you know, miss out on if I put it off too long. So, you know, on a personal note and a professional note, I don't waste a lot of time. You know, I wanted to travel. So many of my friends talk about oh, I, you know, I can't wait to the kids are older and I want to travel. And I did not wait, you know, I am on this mission to visit 50 countries before I turned 50 as my pledge to myself, that I can make big things happen. writing a book was a super huge accomplishment because I felt like, you know, I can fool people for so long. But if the words are written on the page, they're going to see through me, you know, they're going to know that I'm struggling in some way. They're going to recognize that I'm deficient in some way. And that's First of all, not the case. But it Secondly, you know, it was an opportunity for me to say, Well, what are the messages that are important to me? Because if I'm feeling like I'm an imposter in some way, then I need to feel, you know, kind of legit and credible in the things that I'm saying. So let me bring the message to be of my core essence, you know, I don't fancy, you know, you know, thinker of all times, no, I need to talk about my message in my own voice, and that authenticity has, you know, proved to be a very successful strategy for me. So, in terms of just coaching other women, I think one of the benefits someone like me has is I don't necessarily want to sign women up for coaching that goes on and on and on and on. You know, I really do not want these very elongated commitments with people because I feel like I can't carry their stuff for that long. So I do these power sessions, you know, I do three sessions with women, and they're like these business brilliance boosts, and we get in, we get down, we get dirty, we get it done. And you know, and then I kind of nudge them out of the nest, and I say, go fly. And when you need to come back, then we come back and do another three sessions, you know, so it's not really, you know, the infrastructure of your life kind of program. It's really, you're stuck, for whatever reason, you are stagnant for whatever reason, you are not feeling confident to move forward with the things that are inside of you. Let's get around that, you know, strategies for that. And I think having a brain condition really allows me to be very open and wild in my processing. So I think of things that I know other people don't think of, you know, and I see things very differently. And I think that's just a huge benefit to my clients who, you know, who sign up for my waiting list to be like, Oh my gosh, how can we work with you? I want more of that brilliance because I can't see the things that you see. So tapping into my intuition is something that has been like another unexpected surprise. And I think we think intuition is all about Whoo. And we think it's, you know, this magical force field out into the universe, but it really is our brain's ability to take the millions of pieces of data that it collects, you know, and it stores we don't get to see all of that, right, like our right filter, so much of what our brain collects, it really just gives us the, you know, the tip of the iceberg, but your instincts and your intuition is the full iceberg under the water that, you know, it's based in science. It's based in data. It's based in hard facts. It's based in observable information. We just don't get to see it all. So we think it's this magical thing. But when you can tap into Unknown Speaker 31:01 You know, that level of intuition, it really is based on, you know, very solid advice. You know, it really is not, you know, reading, you know, something that you can't see it really is super solid. So just integrating a little bit more of my gut instinct has, has been another benefit, which I know before my brain crash. I didn't trust myself to do that I wasn't really feeling but now, I'm like, this is a superpower. You know, the fact that I can tap into this easier, and maybe it's the training or maybe you know, my neural pathways have been realigned in such a way that I don't have as many barriers in my brain, but I can tap pretty deeply into some pretty fun stuff. Unknown Speaker 31:48 And that's awesome. Unknown Speaker 31:51 How so if people want to work with you or keep in touch with you or reach out to you How is the best way for them to Get in touch with you. Unknown Speaker 32:01 Yeah, thank you. So I'm at the five seasons life calm. My name is Leanne Cabot. You can find me on LinkedIn. You can find me on Facebook. Unknown Speaker 32:11 Or you can email me through my website at five seasons life calm. Unknown Speaker 32:16 And your last name is spelled K a b EA t correct jackley. It felt a bat but it said like rabbit so it's Cabot like had not felt that way. Unknown Speaker 32:27 And your books, where are your books, my birthday on Amazon. They are on Amazon. So the first book was the five seasons of Unknown Speaker 32:35 connection to your child and it's a parenting guide. And the second book is the five seasons of connection to your business brilliant. So it really is designed to help entrepreneurs pull back some of the layers of you know, shame or guilt or worry or doubt or fear or that they layer on top of their own brilliance and then they can't see it. So we just pull that back so they can actually be who they are meant to be. Their business and in their life. Unknown Speaker 33:02 Awesome. Well, Leanne, it was a pleasure having you on the show today. Thank you so much for being here. Unknown Speaker 33:09 Thank you for having me, Betsy. I hope this was helpful for your listeners. Unknown Speaker 33:14 Yes, I know it will be so thank you and I will see you soon. Unknown Speaker 33:19 Talk to you soon. Bye bye. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Four - Will Wheeler Living Well With Dyslexia In this episode, I interview Will Wheeler of The Dyslexic Evolution. We discuss the challenge of dyslexia, his struggles in school and work and his ultimate use of dyslexia as his super power that allowed him to start The Dyslexic Evolution and write a book! To connect with Will, please go to the dyslexicevolution.com or follow him on LinkedIn (Will Wheeler), Instagram @thedyslexicevolution or Twitter @thedyslexicevolution Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Thanks for listening to For All Abilities today! Share the podcast with your friends, they’ll thank you for it! Get our newsletter and stay up to date! The newsletter link is on our website www.forallabilities.com Follow me Twitter: @betsyfurler Instagram: @forallabilities Facebook: @forallabilites LinkedIn: @BetsyFurler Website: www.forallabilities.com Transcription of Episode Four with Will Wheeler Unknown Speaker 0:05 Hi, everybody, and welcome to for all abilities. I have another special guest today. I want everyone to meet Will Wheeler. And he is talking to us from Australia and it is four o'clock in the morning has time. I cannot believe you're doing this at four o'clock in the morning. Well, I feel so honored that you would you would take valuable sleep time to talk to me. So welcome. Unknown Speaker 0:31 Yes, thank you very much for having me. Unknown Speaker 0:33 Yes. And I would like to start just by Why don't you just introduce yourself ahead and tell us what you're doing currently? Unknown Speaker 0:40 Yeah. Nice. Thank you. Um, well, so obviously, my name is Will Wheeler. I'm from Australia. And I'm actually the director and founder of a company called the dyslexic evolution and we're all about building the next generation of dyslexic leaders, entrepreneurs and really helping people to develop in careers and really go on to try to achieve great things. So, yeah, look that that's a lot about what I'm doing. And, you know, I think I'm really I get so excited when I speak about dyslexia and, and even, you know, my journey as well and being able to help people to be able to look at themselves differently and go and achieve great things. So that's a little bit about me. So I hope that's helpful. Unknown Speaker 1:27 Yeah, so I think we have the same mission. Unknown Speaker 1:30 Yeah. Right. Unknown Speaker 1:32 Yeah. So I found you on LinkedIn. And Unknown Speaker 1:36 I'm welcome dive into more about what you do professionally. But I want to start off with by talking a little bit about your childhood. Yeah. Um, how did you grow up and when were you diagnosed with dyslexia and kind of how did that come about? Yeah, Unknown Speaker 1:51 yeah. Yeah. Yes. So look, I you know, I come from a really great family. My parents were very supportive people. And for me, I was the oldest some. So I, I'm assuming when you've got kids and you've got a few kids, the first kid is sort of the test a kid because you haven't had that before. So I guess once I started going to school, you know, it was it was very, very early on that I started to realize, even myself and obviously my teachers and my parents that I was struggling, I just didn't understand what teachers were really trying to teach me. I would get in trouble all the time. And I remember getting in trouble for things that I just had no idea why I was getting in trouble for things. So I think it must have been around about grade four that my parents went and got me tested and It came back that I was dyslexic. Now. I, you know, my parents and my mother especially they really didn't know, I suppose what to do, you know, probably there was this big, taboo around that type of thing to sort of be like, Oh my God, your son's got a disability. And you know what, for me? It was it was an interesting time. But the best thing what my parents would start doing is, is I remember as a kid that always be pointing out to me very famous people who were dyslexic and successful and saying, see that guy there. He's dyslexic. Say that person. They're they're dyslexic. And oh, no, it's a very confusing time for me because I would always think how how have these people been able to achieve what they've been able to achieve? Where I'm here, hitting myself in the head because I can't even understand what the teacher is trying to teach me. So, you know, in those early days it was very it was very confusing and, and and I remember going through a lot of emotional types of things in in certain situations because there were what there are lots of things where I was brilliant at a lot of stuff so back in school I was brilliant at sports and some art and very creative where I then struggled big time in your normal mathematics and English and, and all that type of thing. So it was an interesting time for me back then. And you know, I tell you the truth, thinking back then I never thought I would be at a point that I'm at now and working towards the future. So it was interesting times. Unknown Speaker 4:58 Yeah, and that's it. One of my goals for this podcast is to get have some parents listen to the podcast as well. So they if they have a young child that's just been recently diagnosed that they realize it might be hard now, but there's hope and there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah. So what happened? Did you What did you do after you had finished school? Did you go on to university? Did you go into the workforce? What did you do? Unknown Speaker 5:30 Yeah, yeah, look, I think and this is a big thing that I share is I'm not sure if it's the same in the United States. But what I found especially when I was in school, that if you fail school, you're you're never going to be able to achieve anything in life. That was something that was really drummed into us in school back in the late 90s. And going into the early 2000s. You know, I actually ended up failing school I got the lowest grade possible out of everyone in our grade. So you know what I left school thinking, Okay, well, I've just failed school. I'm not going to go on to achieve anything. I'm dyslexic, you know, and that's what and that's what I started thinking. I started thinking, you know what, I'm dyslexic. So that makes sense why I found school so I just better get used to being nothing. I've been able to go and achieve really nothing. And for a long time there I I went through a lot of things like depression and all of these things that really just drove me into the ground. So you know, I ended up becoming a huge drug user and I had a big alcohol problem. And you know, that control my life for the best part of almost 10 years. There. Unknown Speaker 7:01 You just felt like you couldn't do anything else. Unknown Speaker 7:04 Well, to tell you the truth, I didn't realize it at the time it was really, you know, because I probably started using drugs and all that type of stuff in probably towards the end of high school. And what that what that really, you know, the thing that I really enjoyed about it back then was like, I was struggling with depression, but I thought depression would be that I was crying all the time, but I wasn't I just fell down and I didn't realize that was depression. And, and what I would do when I would use, it would just be I just be able to block everything out. So I didn't even have to think about that. Okay, I've failed school. I was struggling in school. I was dyslexic because it just blocked everything. Yeah. And it was like it was like my medicine. So for a long time. It it really controlled my life because I thought that's going to be me for the rest of my life. So, you know, that was a big issue for a long time. And I think, you know, what I did start to find, but once I did get into the workforce, because I just ended up getting just to your normal, you know, warehousing job and nothing against warehousing or anything like that. But I always, I don't know, I always sort of knew that I could go on and do better stuff. But because I was told that I, if you fail school, you're never going to go onto anything. I had that there. And I and I believed it for such a long time, which held me back. Unknown Speaker 8:51 You didn't realize you didn't. You didn't know how to use your strength. Unknown Speaker 8:54 Yeah, well, no, not at that point. And it was interesting because people would say to me Hey will, you know especially once I got into the workforce because I started to be able to do things differently, I started to be able to progress a lot differently to others and do task differently because I had to because I was dyslexic. So so what I found was, people would start seeing me doing things that I started progress pretty quick in my career in warehousing and really made my way up the chain really quick. And I used to have people come to me on my god will, it blows me away as a young kid your age is doing what you're doing. And you know what, even when people used to tell me that I still would be like, Yeah, but I'm dyslexic. I'm never going to get any further than this. And so I was my own worst enemy for a long time there and I suppose it until it got to a point where Someone actually told me that I would never achieve anything in life. And I'd always be the same and really, I suppose rips my heart out. I that was that was the coal opcon to go, you know what I'm going to make change and I'm going to prove to myself how good I really am. So sometimes it takes bad to turn into something good. And then that's when I started to develop from that. Unknown Speaker 10:27 Wow, so do you think in the warehouse Job did you have a manager or someone who really believed in you thought you were doing a good job? Like how how did you how did you start? Kind of rising up? You know, going up the chain there? Unknown Speaker 10:44 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I did. I did have a boss who. He was a he was a nice guy, but I tell you what he was he was tough. He was like, I look at his leadership style, and I don't know how Call it leadership style, but I look at it now that I see so many flaws to to what he used to do, which is quite negative, but he did believe in me and he did give me opportunities to rise. So I do take my hat off to that, but there were many occasions where I look back at it now and I'm like, Oh my god, I can't believe that person would do that. So you know he he did give me good opportunities but he was stuck in that old school way of you know, you work hard for your money and if you're not working you go sweep the floor and you know, there was none of this this day and age like, you know, it's like his way or the highway type of thing. So it way completely different thing. But you know what, I got to a point working there, and I found that I thought, you know what, I'm going to Take that next leap, and see if I can actually really try and do something with myself now. So yeah, it was that and that's probably like around the bat. I was dead from about 2000 to about 2007 2008. Um, and then I just had to get away from it because it I just felt like I needed a change. Unknown Speaker 12:26 Uh huh. Unknown Speaker 12:29 So yeah, it was it was it was interesting times. Unknown Speaker 12:33 So what did you do after that? Unknown Speaker 12:35 Well, for me, I really, you know, that was when Pete that was when someone really said to me that I was never going to change. I was afraid of change, and I'd always be the same. So it, it sort of it sort of made me you know, think okay, you know, all these people are telling me so many great things about how good I am and all the This type of stuff, you know, I really need to maybe try and change what I'm currently doing. So, you know, I was still, you know, partying really hard. I found that I was that was probably holding me back. So I was like, You know what, I just need to get away from everything. So for me, I just went, you know, I'm going to sell everything. I'm going to pack everything up and I'm going to move overseas. Now before that, you know, my parents are fantastic, but I was still relying on my parents for so many things like they would tell me when I'd have a bill I needed to pay. They would tell Wow, do you know what I mean? I will check your mail today and you've got this or, or what I even still I wasn't even living at home but my mail was still going to my parents house. And you know, it was just like I had never had to really stand on my own two feet. And by moving overseas, so I moved to the UK for two years. It was sort of like okay, I know nobody there. If I have a problem, I can't rely on my parents who I can run to. So what it started to do I was starting to actually you know, think on my own two feet having to deal with life myself and not have to rely on other people. And that was where I really started to develop and and another really interesting thing that I started to learn was that you know, people did like who I was, I was a cool person and you know, I have this great thing of being able to connect with people and and build relationships really fast and people do look up to me type of thing. So I lacked a lot of things, but probably the biggest thing that I learned was I was over in the UK was that, yeah, I did struggle with a lot of stuff. And I was dyslexic, but I just started to develop, you know, to do so many other things. And it was over their head that I actually was able to teach myself to read better. And that was because when you're a backpacker, or whatever that is, you're so poor. It's so hard to go out and, you know, do things every day. So I would be at home and I would hear about books that people wouldn't be reading and I just went, you know what, I'm going to just try and read this book because I there was this the book scar tissue for the Anthony Kiedis from the Red Hot Chili Peppers biography, and I heard everyone talking about it. I'm like, Man, I wish I wasn't dyslexic so I could read this book. And I you know what? I just got to a point where I just grabbed the book sat down, and I had a rule That if I couldn't pronounce a word, I could not turn the page until I got that word, right, because I had a lot of time on my hands because I couldn't afford to do anything. And you know what, what I found was that I would finish a page and I understood it. I would then finish a chapter and I understood it. And then I was finishing another chapter in another chapter. And I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm getting this because usually, I would read a book and I'd be in one ear out the other, I'd have no idea what it was about. And I ended up finishing the book. And now I know that doesn't sound like much, but that was the first book I ever completed from beginning to end and our thoughts myself, I'm like, Oh, my God, this is amazing. I never thought I'd do that. And people like looking at me like, okay, yeah, right. But to me, that was a real turning point. Because I had achieved something that I never thought I'd be able to achieve ever. And it was it that was a big turning point as well, because I started to think, hey, look, if I can do something that I once thought I was never gonna be able to do. What else can I do? Unknown Speaker 17:18 So I like opened up your mindset to every everything else in the world. Yeah, I can read this. I can, you know, we everything else, which means I can do everything else. I'm sure I mean, it just that I can imagine that was huge for you. Unknown Speaker 17:34 Yeah, it was and it was sort of like, and I remember even sitting at the place I was living at at the time, because I knew I was getting ready to come back to Australia. And I was I remember sitting there and I'm thinking, Okay, you know, you've had a good couple of years away from home. You know, you've really got to start thinking about where do you want your career to go because I remember saying to myself, Self before I left to go to the UK, is that I want to make something of myself I want to use the time that I spend overseas to learn about myself and then come back to Australia and really build a career and really build something that people are going to, you know, really look up to type of things. So it was a time where I was like, Okay, well, now I'm coming back to Australia. What am I going to do? Maybe I should do some study because now I can actually read you know, maybe I struggle with writing and punctuation and all that type of stuff. But let's give it a go and see what happens. So yeah, that was that was interesting in that point, and then obviously, you know, I went on and did you know a lot of study and all that and it was just amazing within probably about a year and a half. I done Study and I was doing all these amazing things in my career just started to flourish. And I would start to win awards for what I was doing. And I was running rings around people who'd been doing what I this viewed these new jobs and what I was doing for about five years and I was running rings around these people. I'm thinking, this is only the beginning and imagine what I could be doing in in a few years time. So yeah, definitely my career really flourished once I really applied myself so it was interesting times. Unknown Speaker 19:37 Yeah, so So currently, do you. You run your business and do you do anything else? Do you work for anybody else or you're completely running your own business? Unknown Speaker 19:49 Yeah, look, Unknown Speaker 19:50 I'm probably with what I'm doing. You know, no one else does what I'm doing in the world you know, you cannot find a place That is solely about dyslexic leadership. And that's fantastic because I've tried to look before and I have never seen it. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 20:13 It's very rare, right? Unknown Speaker 20:14 Yeah, definitely. So you know, it's, it is very new and here in Australia, it's the whole neuro diversity, I suppose movement. It is still only at the early stages. So you know what Tizen is really leading the way. And it was actually interesting to yesterday, I was actually speaking at a conference and I was actually speaking with the I was sharing the stage with the, the doctor who actually invented the term neuro diversity. So you know, for me, I'm now up there sharing my story and what my company does with wealth. Renowned doctors now so you know, Unknown Speaker 21:02 that's amazing. Unknown Speaker 21:04 Yeah, it is, is pretty cool. I still have to pinch myself but here in Australia where we're really working hard on really building that, you know, really building that following around neurodiversity, because it's not even Australia. I do and you know, I'm connected with people all over the world. And Unknown Speaker 21:26 it's Yeah, it's I would say it's I said, I would say the climate is the same here in the US where Autism is really gaining traction. Yeah, definitely. Really the bringing light to neuro diversity in general. Yeah, yeah. We have a long way to go though. Yeah, Unknown Speaker 21:44 it is. It is. There's a and it is it's like that everywhere. But you know what the cool thing about it is, it is changing and what's going to happen it was actually interesting speaking with and her name's Dr. Judy singer. It was that actually interesting because when she came up with the word, it was more about trying to create a movement that was away from disability. And because, you know, a lot of people who do have neurodiverse who are neurodiverse and neurodivergent, sorry, they don't define themselves as having a disability. You know, you know, you know, for me, I'm probably back when I, you know, was in school and, you know, for years there after school, yeah, maybe I did probably see myself as a disability had I had a disability, but that was because that was what everyone was telling me in school. But now I'm able to go and do all these amazing things and inspire people. No, I don't have a dis I don't feel like I have a disability. I have probably more abilities to go in the right thing. So it's actually in thing but yeah, where it's definitely changing. It's just taking time and I think a lot of that is based around educating neurotypical people about probably the advantages to it, Unknown Speaker 23:14 rather than the negatives to it. Unknown Speaker 23:17 Right, right. Although I don't know their that that. I don't know that they're really that many neurotypical people out in the world. They're just some of us that fit in that box in a little bit more traditional way, I think. Unknown Speaker 23:30 Yeah, yeah. Unknown Speaker 23:33 You know, as you know, I'm very passionate about people being celebrated for their strengths and, and being able to use their strengths, to their to their advantage and to the world's advantage. I think our world allowed everyone to work to their strengths, rather than being constantly judged on and trying to build up your weaknesses. Yeah, world would be such a better place everybody would be happy, more valued, and Everybody would be more productive. Because, you know, there are some things that I can do, but I'm not really very good at. And when I try to do those things, I'm just not very productive. You know, I can, I can get it done. But it's not necessarily done well. And it's not playing to my strengths. Unknown Speaker 24:21 Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 24:23 It's it for all of us. It's, you know, if we can do the things that we're really strong at, and we just get so much more accomplished, and we're happier and life is just so much. Living life is better when you're doing it with your strikes. Unknown Speaker 24:38 Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And, you know, I think this is where a lot of employers are really missing the mark. They, what I'm finding is a lot of employers just don't understand like out here that someone may be neurodiverse and straight away that going into the other I don't know box like, Oh my god, what what's going on, you know, this person won't be able to do this, okay? That That means that they're going to be they're going to cost us more money than what they're going to make. But you know, that's, that's so wrong in so many ways because you know, once people are put into a situation where they can work to their strengths, so if they're neurodiverse, a lot of their strengths are actually a lot stronger than other people's strengths because they that's what they're brilliant at doing and that's what defines them. And a lot of the time people are being put into situations where they can't prove who they are. So people straight away, put them into that category going, Okay, well, they can't do that. We can't really help them to progress or whatever. And you know, their careers go more Really in the wrong direction because of that. Unknown Speaker 26:02 Right, right. And it's a, you know, it's a waste of that employers time and that employees time and waste of money with all the really needless trying to cram a space square peg into a round hole. Unknown Speaker 26:22 Yeah, just Unknown Speaker 26:24 as, as opposed to Unknown Speaker 26:28 using someone to their ability, and I've even heard of situations I was consulting on this one case, and they brought me in as a consultant. And this woman was telling me how they she had this great employee and he was so good at his job and on and on and on. And she said, except he's really bad at taking notes. And I said, Well, what does he taking notes on? And she said, Well, he's assigned as the note taker for the team. Unknown Speaker 26:55 Oh my god, Unknown Speaker 26:57 and he has dyslexia. Oh my god. Got your solution? Unknown Speaker 27:01 Yeah, Unknown Speaker 27:03 find somebody else to be the name. Unknown Speaker 27:05 But also to, it doesn't necessarily have to be that someone else needs to be the note taker, there's actually programs that he can put out there so much. You know, and Unknown Speaker 27:18 that's why I was asking, Why is he taking notes? Because if he needs to take notes, you know, we have apps for that, right? We are different apps and other tech tools are so much out there that, that I can suggest a supports. But if he doesn't need to be taking notes for the team, if, you know, it's like, Don't make him do that. Like, it's something that's like, they're very most difficult thing. Yeah, definitely. Be that creative graphic artists that he has. Unknown Speaker 27:50 Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Definitely. Unknown Speaker 27:54 Well, well, thank you. This was so interesting, and I want you to tell my audience How they can keep in touch with you, you mentioned that you've written a book and or you're in the process. So tell us about that and how people can keep in touch with you and learn more about your organization and all of that. Unknown Speaker 28:16 Yeah, great. Um, so yeah, look, um, it's really funny. I never thought in a million years that I would have ever thought I'd write a book, but you know what, I've I'm almost finishing writing my first book, the book of dyslexic motivation and pitches. And you know, and it was really funny people say it's really hard to write a book, but I've actually found it quite easy. It's just my spelling and grammar probably isn't the best but you know, I work my girlfriend, she's fantastic. And she looks at a lot of my stuff and I use a lot of tools to be able to help me through it, but, you know, I was been able to finish the bulk of up to the last chapter. Now and then I've gotta go through editors all that but it should be at probably in maybe early 2020 I'm hoping for. I just want to make sure it's right. And it's going to probably be in paperback and it will be digital as well. So, if you are dyslexic you can actually have it read back to you. Right? Yeah, yeah, definitely. So also too. I have my podcast the the dyslexic professional podcast. There's only a few episodes on there at the moment and I'm pretty sure that's available on iTunes Spotify can't even remember the rest but Unknown Speaker 29:46 yeah, all those places where do you listen to your podcast? Yeah, yeah, Unknown Speaker 29:49 yeah, exactly. I'm pretty sure you could go on to our website, the dyslexic evolution calm and access the podcast from that, plus Please subscribe to our website or like for follow our social media pages. Unknown Speaker 30:06 Awesome. Well, it has been a pleasure talking to you today. Thank you so much for sharing your super interesting story. I know it's gonna motivate a lot of people and help give hope to a lot of people and their parents. Right. You Thank you. Well, Unknown Speaker 30:23 thank you very happy. Unknown Speaker 30:26 And I look forward to I'm going back to bed. Yeah. Unknown Speaker 30:33 Yeah, that it's amazing. It's in the middle, and I would still consider it the middle of the night. Unknown Speaker 30:39 Yeah, well, I haven't even really been to sleep yet. I was so like, I had a big day today at this conference. And I was like, you know, I'm just gonna have a bit of a nap and then I'll talk to you then I'll go to bed. Unknown Speaker 30:52 Yes, well, good night. Unknown Speaker 30:54 Yes. Thank you very much. Unknown Speaker 30:57 Thanks so much for joining me, Unknown Speaker 30:58 no problem. Thank you. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Two – Amber Hawley – Finding Your Own Path With ADHD In this episode, I interview Amber Hawley of AmberHawley.com, The Couple Fix Podcast and the Biz Besties Podcast. We discuss how Amber has succeed in life using her ADHD diagnosis as her superpower. Amber is a wonderful, creative therapist and has found her own path using her ADHD to her advantage and learning strategies to minimize her weaknesses. You can read the transcript of the episode below. To connect with Amber, please go to AmberHawley.com or follow her on LinkedIn – Amber Hawley, Instagram @mybizbestie. Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Transcription of Episode Two Betsy 0:08 Welcome to the For All Abilities podcast. Thanks so much for listening today and today I have another special guest my friend, Amber Hawley. I am so excited you are here, Amber Amber 0:21 Me too. Thanks for having me. Betsy 0:23 Yes. So tell my audience a little bit about yourself, introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself. Amber 0:33 I'm a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, and I have ADHD. So I actually have a couple of different businesses which is very normal for ADHD people, I feel doing all the things and also to be self employed. That's a very common thing. So as a marriage therapist, my specialty Is our I work with couples. I've really transitioned into working with high achieving/ entrepreneurial couples. Because I also feel like I'm the ADHD whisperer, I love helping people that have ADHD and that go into business and the struggles that they face. All of that is my favorite thing to help people with. Betsy 1:25 I think that's really needed too. I know that the entrepreneurs I know, many of them have ADHD, or are people like me who are not really diagnosable as that and probably don't really have ADHD, but I have a lot of interests and can get easily distracted at times. So that's probably very helpful. And as we all know, it's hard to be married to somebody who's an entrepreneur. With or without ADHD. Amber 1:56 Exactly Betsy 1:58 Those two things are hard. Hard on marriages. I know you were diagnosed as an adult with ADHD. But why don't you tell us a little bit about your childhood? You probably had ADHD during your childhood even if it wasn't diagnosed. Tell us a little bit about what your childhood was like what it was like for you to be in school and in college? Amber 2:23 Yes. Well, you definitely look at issues as a lifelong thing. So whether you got diagnosed as a kid because I'll see people like no, I was as a kid, like, well, you still have it, it doesn't go away, right? Yeah, doesn't go away. As a therapist, I see this that it's very common for girls to not get diagnosed because of how it shows up. So typically, what we see in like our clinic is a lot of young boys are getting brought in because they're having problems at school, they're acting out. So even though I'm combined types. I have both the distractibility and the hyperactivity, which that part you kind of do grow out of, I kind of wish I still had that hyperactivity. I was just really active kid. Back in the 70s and 80s, like it was just kind of a different world. So it probably really suited ADHD kids in a way. Just always being outside running around. Betsy 3:26 I hadn't thought about that. But it did. It probably was easier. We all got more exercise. We were all outside playing all the time Amber 3:35 Exactly. I feel we need recess. We didn't have technology, you know. Technology is both a blessing and a curse. It's funny when I look back at my old report cards like I've one of those like, memorabilia things. The comment was always that I was talking too much. That's how that's how it usually will show up, especially in girls. It's that, “just can't stop talking” and, and you know, looking back now, after getting diagnosed, there were just a lot of things that I thought, gosh, you know, Why do I keep doing that? Like when you're kind of blurty and you're, you know, you're just talking, you have to say that thing. And then you're like, how did I say that? And you're like, Oh, well, now I kind of understand that impulsivity piece. But I think I was just a really active kid and I talked a lot. So that was always the thing. My thing in school that was a real struggle, which this is where I wish I had known because then I would have developed strategies for it. But I was terrible at doing homework. Like I, it became so painful, that, you know, like, it's a simple thing to do for most people, and I just couldn't do it, but I tested really well. So that was my saving grace. I could easily learn information. You know, just by listening and I would remember and I would do well, but I would always be marked down for not turning in homework or for it would take me so long to get stuff done like that Betsy 5:10 So would you procrastinate with it? Amber 5:12 Oh my gosh, just, it was the worst. Yes, I can remember even I want to say even as young as sixth grade that I would finally I would stay up all night. At 1am I would start doing my homework or start preparing the next day, like really young because it would get to the point that the pressure would have to be there for me to actually focus. So yeah, so I would, like I said, even as young as sixth grade and then it's funny my senior year of high school, they had this program where you could skip your senior year and get college credits so you could attend the local community college. The first quarter I signed up for this one class called perfectionism and procrastination. So there was a part of me that always knew! Yeah, it was like, What? Why? Why am I always doing this? The funny thing is I don't actually feel like I finished that class. I think I actually dropped it. Betsy 6:15 That's hilarious. And this is good. This is a this is great for those parents out there that are listening to the podcast, and are just like, so frustrated with their kids for not doing their homework, because, you know, it's a common issue, especially for kids with ADHD. That you did actually survive school and go on to become a professional. Children out there please just do your homework. Amber 6:49 And you know, it's funny when when I talk to parents, sometimes it's like, is this a battle worth having? There are natural consequences and obviously, you know, I believe that kids need to do their work, but there are times where it's like, okay, let's look at the bigger picture. So right, I still did have a very, I would say, non traditional trajectory. So I did that year. And then I kind of like here and there, I would try to like take classes and college, but it just again, I wasn't I don't think I was ready. I had a hard time focusing. So I ended up moving across the country, actually, because I grew up in Minnesota, and I moved out to California. And then I started getting jobs in the marketing world and then went into internet operations. And, and it was funny because this was before the .com bust. And, you know, you didn't have to have college. I mean, they wanted it, but they but really if you were I was somebody who could pick up that kind of stuff really easy like technology. Right? Right. So you just had to be able to, you know, if you're articulate, and you could learn things like I think there are other ways to do Well in the world, and so I actually ended up moving all the way up to like senior management and internet operations with no college degree whatsoever. This was by the age of like, 24. Anywhere Betsy 8:13 I guess my listeners don't know this, but you're very creative. You're a very creative thinker. And your ADHD is probably your that's probably powered by your ADHD. So I think Yeah, and I think I am. I'm a strong believer that not everybody has to go to college. There's so much out there that we can do I without a college degree, so I think sometimes it is, or you need to take several years off before you go, you need to mature or do some other things. So anyway, that's Yeah, that's so interesting. Amber 8:53 And I think unless you're the kind of kid who knew exactly like, this is exactly what I want to do, and it's a very clear path, right? Because I'd always like I'd always gone back and forth like I wanted, I looked at like psychology or like, law. And so it was always like a lawyer like psychologists. And then it's just like, okay, I just need to go do something else. And I went into the internet world the .com world. And then I kind of had what I call my existential crisis. And that's when I realized, like, I wanted to be doing something helping people. And I think, naturally, I always talked to people, people always told me their stories, like from a young age, you know, I'd be at a gas station and people would share their whole life story with me. Betsy 9:35 So that’s my undergraduate degree is in psychology and sociology with a minor in religion. I didn't know I mean, I thought I wanted to be a psychologist, actually, my plan was to go to, you know, get a PhD in psychology. And I decided not to do that. And the reason I decided not to do it is because I hear everyone's problems everywhere I go. I was like, I don't want to do that. For my work because when I go to the grocery store, I hear product people will tell me their whole life story and everything going on with them and everywhere I go. Amber 10:10 I got so funny, I make sense because you're a talker too. But my thing was, hey, this, I love this. I love connecting with people individually. I really didn't like the corporate world, I really struggled with it. And I started to feel like I would kind of jokingly be like, I hate people. I mean, I still sometimes say that. And it's not really what I mean, because I don't it's I love connecting with people individually. But sometimes when you're in those hierarchical structures, were it just it just felt it so it felt like, you know, like, you're below me and this, you know, therefore, everything I say is right. And a lot of people with ADHD do struggle with, you know, working for other people and I, I think I always had this stress, like I was always going to be fired, even though that made no sense really when I kept getting promoted and You know, I did really well, but because I did struggle, like I had a hard time, that's why I love the.com world, I had a really hard time getting up in the morning and being to a job by, like, even say 9am like it was, it's funny because I could go be somewhere at 5am if it's like a ridiculous hour, or I would need later in the day, so, so I realized, you know, so I would feel stressed all the time. So there were ways that it definitely showed up negative. But I think the positive ways were like, you know, the the ability to hyper focus, I think is what helps me learn things really quickly and be able to adapt and to grow. But so yeah, so then that eventually I said, Okay, I know I want to pursue the psychology thing. I really want to connect with people on a one on one and I want to help people because I you know, like I said, I my existential crisis. So then I went back to college at an older age, so I think Betsy 11:54 How old were you Amber 11:56 I think I went I went back at 27 Um, and then I, I did. I did right back to back. I did my bachelor's and my master's degree. And so Betsy 12:11 did you go full time? Or did they work? Amber 12:14 So I did try. Like I said, I tried here and there. I tried doing like a class or two at a time, and I had a really hard time splitting my focus like that. So what ended up happening is I made a plan. I was like, Okay, I'm going to continue to work and in January, I'm going to quit and go back to school. Well, when is it happening in August is everyone got laid off? This was during the like.com bust. You know, Betsy 12:40 so that was kind of convenient for you. Amber 12:43 It was a little earlier than I thought. Yeah, exactly. I was like, Oh, I wasn't really ready for that. But um, but yeah, so I you know, it ended up working out so then I just went to school full time, and then I you know, would do like part time jobs or whatever. But mostly my focus was school. Betsy 13:03 I think that, I think for a lot of Well, I mean everybody with ADHD is so different but I do think that that can be really hard for a lot of people with attention problems and to have to focus on two completely different things. You know, work in school I mean, to me work in school are so different. Yeah, your priorities are different for each your, your, your motivation is different. I think that can be really hard. And I think online classes too can be really hard. Yeah, I Amber 13:35 One of the most the hardest things were the online ones. I didn't like them because I really I like I can sit in a class and listen and learn so much. So for me, it was so easy to do that. And I think it was it because school is such a different kind, like I could work several jobs and be fine because you're showing up and you're doing work, but my school part would be the the the Mental load of the homework. It wasn't like it was hard because actually find school very easy, but it was the where my struggle comes is, you know, in business, it's now like paperwork, stuff, the administrative stuff. But in school it was like that homework part, and being able to organize that. So that was really hard because even back in high school, what ended up happening is, I would work I was working two to three jobs. I actually ended up working like full time between all my jobs, and school was second like it wasn't my priority. So I think I've always it's not it wasn't even a time commitment thing. It's but it is that mental energy. And so yeah, being in college, it made it harder. And again, I wish I had known because I would have set up better study habits but I was able, I had this one professor who said the difference between a student and a D student is the a student is willing to pull the all nighter, haha and most of my classes like it was usually like okay you write papers. Or you would be tested. But it wasn't a lot of like, you know, like homework for the sake of homework. Betsy 15:07 Right, right exactly what all stuff that you have in, in middle school in high school that's just so wearing on people. Amber 15:17 Exactly. So in that regard, I did well because I would pull the all nighter and I would, you know, study like crazy for the test and I would do really well so that that helps. And then but then there were certain times where I did it like a self paced class and I ended up just failing because I never did one thing in it. Because it was right. It was just as weird. Yeah, it wasn't the right direction. Betsy 15:41 From an executive functioning standpoint, though self paced classes are so difficult. Amber 15:46 Although oddly, I had it I had self paced like, I had to go back and retake algebra two or something like that. I can't remember what something because I've been too long, right. And I did a self paced class for that. But there was a class meeting time, and I did so well. And also I'm really good at math. So math is so easy, right? So I was like, okay, but this other one was, yeah, that like reading and writing papers, and it was all and you never met, you never went anywhere. Right own. I failed and I couldn't even like, that's where it's like so frustrating and like, I could be so successful. And then I couldn't even withdraw myself from the class. Like, it makes no sense, right? So you're like, Oh, what is wrong with me? But yeah, so Betsy 16:31 that's something that I think is really important in the employment setting to is for managers to know that some people with ADHD need a you know, more frequent deadlines or a big project broken down down into tasks for them, or just some kind of like, weekly accountability. Yeah, just check in weekly on the project or whatever. And I think sometimes Managers are, you know, maybe they think people tend to be over, you know, micro managers or, you know, under management. And, and that's really I think that becomes very hard for people with ADHD if they have to work in a situation that's like a self paced class Amber 17:17 in management to also doesn't work because it's like, that's how my creativity happens. And yeah, I mean, it was so bad that even in grad school, when we had to write our final thesis, this is your final thing, you know, the to finish to graduate like it has to be approved and accepted. I ended up and I found strategies that worked for me, I ended up having to rent a hotel for two days. So I would go and like focus on it. And what ended up happening is like, I got there, and then I like ordered room service and rented movies. And then finally in the final day, at like, 10pm I started going and I and I finished it through because that's perfect. part right. and I was great. And I passed. And so it was wonderful that it's like, I, I wish I had learned the strategies to kind of help me do that and not in such a stressful way. Betsy 18:15 And do you think if you were you were diagnosed with ADHD at the time, you were saying earlier that you wished he would have been? And do you think it would have made a big difference? Just knowing that about yourself? Amber 18:30 I think what's what's helped out a lot. So I got diagnosed at 41. So about three years ago, what I've learned is how to, like I know what things won't work for me or like, I'm able to go, okay, and not just see it as a failure. Because before I would say, Oh, well, if it's important enough to me, or, you know, I'm capable of this. So why can't you? Why should Why can't you just do this? Instead of saying like, hey, this actually is just How I work in this will be so much harder approach the way I think I learned when I was young and been taught strategy study strategies that helped me because it's like, by the time I figured this out, you know, I'm doing this my whole life. And so like, my strategy is wait until there's enough pressure, and then, and then hyper focus, and then you're able to just like pull through, but it's also very stressful and it's not right, it's not good sleep habits. It's not good. You know, it causes a lot of distress in that in that procrastination, period time. And so, you know, like, I wish that I could have just a lot of cortisol going into my system. Betsy 19:45 really that good for you probably. It's so interesting, because my brain works in such a different way about that. I'm not a person who will, you know, there are people who will do the paper like as soon as the signs and it's like, you know, they have it ready. Two weeks early, I'm not that person. I have a bit of procrastinate, but then my whole life I have given myself rewards. So I will automatically break a project down into different steps. And then I will reward myself like, Okay, if I work on this, and I still do this all the time. If I do paperwork for an hour, then I can watch a hallmark holiday. Yes, I do this, then I can do that. Like I've always had that internal reward kind of strategy. And so it's it's so interesting that that all of our brains don't work the same. And then and I couldn't if I tried to study at one o'clock in the morning, there's no way I can do that. Like, there's no way I would just have to fail the task because if I waited until 1am to start something, I'd be asleep by 1:15. I just, I just can't pull all nighters. So that's not a strategy for me. Yeah. And that's hard for me. Amber 21:05 And I think that's the important thing is understanding yourself. And unfortunately, what I see with so many people with ADHD is you might know yourself but because everyone including yourself is telling you will you're just doing it wrong. You, you obviously don't care about it enough or, you know, you're not getting feedback to say like, Oh, you got to work the way you got to figure out how you work and make it happen. You get told like you're being lazy you're, you're you know, what's wrong with you that you forgot that or you're disorganized or you know, turning to Betsy 21:37 Right. And it's a lazy I think the light you're lazy. You're not trying hard enough. Yeah, I think that is something that that that people hear kids. I think everybody hears that so much. Yes, they if they have ADHD or any kind of learning difference or any cognitive difference at all. Amber 22:01 And I, and I wasn't in until my late 20s or late 20s, probably maybe 30. Where I was like, I would always hear, especially from my mom, like, you're so lazy, you're so lazy. And then I would also hear you're doing too much. You're doing too much. You're overwhelming yourself. And and then I'm like, right, which one? Is it? Because it's true, like, on one hand, how can you tell somebody they're lazy when they actually are doing? Like, they do a lot. Like, like I said, I do sports. I, you know, like, I had a friend that were like, I, you know, I had a social life. And so it's like one of those things. It's like, not lazy. So I really try to help people reframe this, you were unmotivated. You know, like, all right, right. You get into overwhelm and you shut down and I and now like, once you learn it, and you can see the signs, you're like, Okay, now this is how I can address it and get myself out of that shutdown mode faster. Right, right. So it happens. It's really hard. But that's I think that's the hard part. It's like Once you know yourself, but you can't just know yourself, you have to accept yourself. And once you find that acceptance, you can figure out how to make it work. And the beauty of this day and age is we have so many options. It's not everyone doesn't have to work the nine to five. I mean, in fact, most people don't. And so I knew like so once I opened up my therapy practice, I was like, okay, for years I did, I had to do like, early mornings, because I had young kids and we were trying to minimize childcare. And then after some time went by, I realized like, well actually was like five years. After that time period, I said, Okay, what works ideally for me is I would start seeing clients at one in the afternoon and I would see them till 9pm because I may get up early, but I my brain takes time to kind of wake up and be in that is, and I am like, on fire in the afternoon like I'm amazing, but in the morning, not so much. Like, and I can Betsy 24:00 About so important to is for people to know what time of day they work the bus, yes and and then and then maximize that time because I'm a mid morning person. I'm a, like 10am to about one or two. That's kind of my, like, optimal time or super late night I can get another kind of a second wind late at night. But that doesn't work that well for my family. So my typical time is like 10 to two. And it's I think that's so important to know when you work the best. Exactly. I don't know. Amber 24:40 So really honor it. Because Yeah, that people will say, Oh, I want to like I sometimes depending on who it is like I've done a podcast episode really early. Because you know, like, especially if they're a big name with a big list and you're like, Okay, I'll work with your schedule. But I'm my brain isn't really in it. I'm still good. It's just I'm much better in the afternoon. But what I do find is, I am really great with creative work or brainstorming in the morning. So like quiet time. So for me, if I go to work at 10, like that 10 to one time, I'm great at kind of brainstorming ideas or like, Okay, this is the next project I want to do, or, you know, like, kind of organizing things, that's what I'm good at, but the actual, like, having to be in that responsive place of, you know, because a lot of a lot of like, I'm kind of coaching Well, now I've kind of transitioned online to an online business, but I'm a coachy person, so it's like fixing people's problems. You know, I gotta, you gotta really be awake and be attentive for that. So, so yeah, it's figuring out what type of work during what time of day. So that's another piece of it. Betsy 25:50 Yes. So real quickly when you work for people you know, the the time of day matter The you know type of work you were doing mattered What else can you think of that made a difference and when you were working for someone that ADHD either helped or or harmed Amber 26:12 Um, so the harm stuff was always around time management I think that was always the negative feedback I got okay. Betsy 26:20 Late For meetings are forgetting about things Amber 26:22 Know once I'm at work i'm i'm good right there, but it was getting to work on that mattered. That was a problem. But and this might be a little genex thing but I am a really hard worker. So like, I'm kind of notorious for like, I don't even like taking sick days like I always show up. Although when I was when I was really hating a job and feeling really burnt out by it that I probably did not want to go very much. Now that I'm thinking back, I would get into the zone where I would just like watch TV for like, felt like days on end like I could just waste so much time. So it was this thing where I was like going 100 miles an hour, or zero miles an hour. And so there was like, there wasn't an in between. and that feels crappy. Right? So, so I would say, mostly, that was the negative stuff. Or I would be kind of hate to call it like emotional, but like, I was very passionate about things. And so I felt like something was wrong. Like I was very vocal about it. Right. Right. So I don't know, like, my, my sense of social justice is like super, you know, developed is what I will. I'm going to say that in such a nice way. It's such a bad way right now. Yeah, I would have worded it very differently before. So I think that was a struggle because I really definitely got emotionally impacted by people in that way. Um, but on the positive side, like goes back to that creativity. Yeah, talk about like, we would be in a meeting and they would be like, Oh, you know, I wish we could do this. And I would search it out. Figure it out. And then, like, I remember, I was working for this one company, and I, I supported marketing, you know, in the internet operations department. And so they wanted to do these ads. And they wanted, this was a long time ago. So they wanted it to have, they wanted to have like, an audio component. And so I figured out how we could for free in house record, an audio component to these ads we were putting on our on our site, and and do it and I figured that out within like an hour of this one meeting, and they were just blown away and so happy, you know, so it's like, right, like that where I could, and I know it's like, nowadays, they'll be like, well, that's stupid. That's so easy. It's like no, this didn't right. Betsy 28:43 And it wasn’t that bad, right. I also think that that ability to think outside the box and to think about things in very different ways. I think, our brains being all everybody's brain I believe is so different from each other. And I think that is so valuable in a workplace if the workplace honors it, because you can think of things that nobody else would think about, because it's not the status quo, you know, it's something different or something new. And I think that is really. really valuable. Exactly. Amber 29:25 Yeah, having a work environment that supports that, that allows the space for that creativity to happen. And then so I guess another thing my this is kind of, I think it was the other reason why I did so well and the ADHD stuff didn't come out until I got to a place where I was burnt out. And my bandwidth was just too low. But I was I was an obsessive list writer, and I would either be extremely organized like a totally organized or it would be complete chaos. Right again, the All right, yeah. And yeah, so But what ended up happening then is because of my need for organization to be able to function, I was really good at like documenting processes. Which is ironic because I really struggle with this in my business now that I'm the business owner because it's like, I don't have time to do that. But when it was just when my job was to do this one job, then I had, you know, I had the focus for it. So I created like, their operations manuals and I trained people and so like that kind of stuff, and I love training people you know, the teaching component, the connecting with people one on one. So again, it's about finding what are those strengths that you naturally have and ride you know, ride that force in that direction? It's already going right? Don't try to do something different that is not not working to your strengths, right? Because you should and I think that's the thing is I should do this or I should want to and, and you know, it's the same thing with like management right? Like They say, you know, you people are promoted to their, to their place of in competence. It's like, well, if you want to be promoted, you should want to manage other people. And it's like, Well, some people are just, that's not manage other people, right? Betsy 31:15 And they're probably not going to be good at it. Amber 31:19 And that's the that's the only way they can get, you know, promoted and raises and all that. And it's like, well, that's a crappy structure. And so, because I do work with a lot of high achievers, you know, especially being in was in Silicon Valley for 22 years. And we just moved the summer, but it was like, I would see all these, you know, startup CEOs and C suite executives, and they would tell me about this because, again, a lot of people have ADHD, and they're like, oh, like, I don't want to have to manage people. Right. But it's the only way to get promoted. Betsy 31:51 I know. It's, there's so much work to be done. Amber 31:55 There is Betsy 31:56 So many things to be changed. So Tell me Tell my audience actually a little bit about how they can connect with you and if you have a couple of podcasts I please tell them about that Amber 32:12 Yes so I guess the best places to reach me number one would be amberholly.com that's where I'm doing I kind of trends because we've made a move across country again. I've transitioned to doing all of my work with couples and with individuals online so I'm doing coaching online with people and I have the couple six podcasts that goes along with that. So you can either check out couples fix or go to amber Holly calm. And the other piece is I co host the my biz bestie podcast and with my friend Dr. Melissa Hall, and that when we started it's primarily for women but we have a lot of we call them biz bros, but help female entrepreneurs find their business support system. Because I will say that's probably the number one thing I've learned in having a business for the last nine years is my staff, you know, having people that support me so it's not just about your team, it's also about having a biz bestie inner circle, you know, yeah, networking, all that support, but having that team that supports me like I have somebody who is so great and organized and on top of the details, so that I don't have to be because I create otherwise I'll be so stressed out because, you know, that's not my strongest part, right though. The paperwork part. I'm just terrible. Betsy 33:38 So hire somebody else to do that. Amber 33:41 Oh my gosh, it makes life so good. Betsy 33:44 And I think also, you know, with all my all my business friends, and it's so wonderful to have people to bounce ideas off of and your podcast is kind of a biz bestie for all of us that we are Get that info from so that's awesome. So yeah, just my biz bestie in anywhere we listen to podcasts or couples fix podcasts, both of those. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us today and telling us how you're using ADHD to live your best life. And I know that my audience is going to want to connect with you. So remember to subscribe to my podcast and subscribe to ambers podcasts as well. So thank you, thank you. Thank you and Amber. I appreciate it so much and I will talk to you soon. Amber 34:34 Thank you Transcribed by https://otter.ai
For All Abilities – The Podcast Episode Two In this episode, I interview Zach Nunn of Living Corporate. We discuss the need for all kinds of diversity and the value of differences. You can read the transcript of the episode below. To connect with Zach, please go to living-corporate.com or follow on LinkedIn (LivingCorporate), Instagram @livingcorporate or Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod Please subscribe to For All Abilities – The Podcast! Please follow me on Instagram @forallabilities, LinkedIn (Betsy Furler) and on Facebook (For All Abilities). Go to our website www.forallabilities.com for information on our software that enables employers to support their employees with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Thanks for listening! Betsy Transcription of Episode Two with Zach Nunn Betsy Furler 0:08 Hi, everybody. Welcome to For All Abilities. This is my new podcast, where I want to talk about the strengths that people with all types of differences bring to this world. So I thought I'd have a intro episode with my guest, Zach. Hi Zach, I'm going to go ahead and have you introduce yourself and tell my audience all about what you're doing, about the podcast you have and everything else you would like to share with us. Welcome! Zach Nunn 0:41 First of all, thank you very much for the warm introduction. And yeah, my name is Zack Nunn. I am the CEO and founder of Living Corporate, which is a multimedia platform that amplifies the voices of black and brown people at work. We do that through a podcast. We do it through a blog. We do it through events. And my passion is all around diversity, equity inclusion. And it's all about making sure that everyone is represented and has a seat at the table. And so, Betsy, when I think about your platform and what you're focused on, I believe it fits into the larger umbrella of what I'm all about so I'm really excited and honored to be on your podcast today. Betsy 1:24 I am so glad that our mutual friend Liz introduced us to each other. Zach: Yes, Liz is awesome. Betsy: Some of my listeners may be wondering why my first guest on my podcast about inclusion of people with disabilities, specifically ADHD, dyslexia, learning disabilities, and autism is someone who works in inclusion in a very different way. So I thought we could talk about the reason that inclusion of all people is so important and reason that honoring people's differences and their strengths is what leads to a better society. I'd love for you to give us a little background, on your childhood, how you grew up, and how you became the adult you are today. Zach Nunn 2:20 You know, for me, my background, both sides of my family, had fairly humble beginnings. Both sides of my family are from Mississippi, I can trace my father's side of the family back to a small plantation in Mississippi, and then my mother's side of the family has been in Mississippi, as far back as I know. But both sides of my family were sharecroppers, fairly destitute, and under educated, but both sides developed and created a path for themselves despite those institutional challenges. And so, with that still being said, I'm like, you could argue that I'm a first generation professional. So I didn't have a lot of antonopoulos and cousins, and people will really tell me how to navigate these spaces, right, like I didn't have a lot of in terms of the space, but I mean, corporate spaces, I mean, majority white spaces. And so as I, as I continued forward in my career, I really valued mentorship and sponsorship, and just professional development, because I had had a lot of trial by fire. It continues to be trial by fire for me, and just terms of what it means to navigate the corporate world. And it's that background and those experiences for me and being one of the only, and especially in the space I'm in change management, and even in diversity, equity and inclusion work. Believe it or not, black and brown people are not the majority. And when you compound that with being a manager being in a leadership position, there are a few of us, us being black and brown folks, people of color. The higher you go, the higher you climb on that ladder. And so the passion that were instigated by my childhood, and by my early career experiences continue to be fueled by my still relatively early, but almost mid career experiences today. Betsy Furler 4:27 Right. And I think that as we, I think everyone feels like there's something about them that doesn't fit in the norm, you know, that box that really nobody fits into. And I think as we talk about our different experiences and the way we all interact with life, and in the workplace, it becomes more and more apparent, at least to me as I'm interviewing people that we are all different. I’m kind of, if somebody fits into the norm, it might be me. You know, although I am a woman, so in many circles I'm kind of out of the out of the norm because of that. I was brought up in a middle class family in Houston, big city, well educated parents, always encouraged to go to school, went to private school, part of my growing up years. I academically did well, didn't really have any challenges there. I'm kind of the sorority girl. All of that and yet there are still things about me that I don't do as well as many other people do. And there are things that I do better than other people. I think when we're open with each other about what our differences are and what our strengths are, that helps society build up strengths and not worry about the weaknesses as much. One of my main platforms for my company For All Abilities is to encourage employers to build up their employees strengths, and give them some support for the things that they don't feel like they do as well or they really struggle with but also really honor their strengths and put them in positions where their strengths are really utilized accurately. And so that's what I'm that's kind of one of my main things and Zach, when we met and we had our first conversation, I was really struck by the feeling that your passion is also about honoring the differences and honoring people's backgrounds and what we all bring to the table. Obviously you and I I bring very different things to the table because of our backgrounds. And both all of what we bring is so important. In fact, I could argue that because you grew up so differently than I did that you bring more to that table. If you could talk on that a little bit and give your opinion on that, that would be wonderful. Zach Nunn 7:25 Absolutely. So first of all, thank you for that. And I appreciate that. I 100% agree that understanding people's stories and their backgrounds and where they came from is critical. I think that in a lot of different ways, because we are in America so I'm speaking from an American context, because that's where we live that's where I live. You know, when you think like this, when you think about things historically. The creation of race and what I mean by creation of race, creation of white and black and like, creating like these very like, almost monolithic social classes does a disservice to people all across the board because over time, you end up just kind of putting people in boxes. And you dismiss the nuance, and the beauty of complex identities, and what those are and the experiences that come with those identities or those identities that are born from certain experiences, I don't know. But the point is, it's worth I think we're now in a time and I know certain, you know, you have different camps with pooping. Various camps of political or philosophical groupings or points of view may look at it like differently, but I think we're in a time now. It's like really highlighting difference and the importance of those differences and how those differences can really inform perspectives that really can create new and distinctive insights. So to your point about like, backgrounds, and how those different backgrounds and what that they bring to the table, I think for me, because I've always been in the minority, I am naturally more adept at just being socially and emotionally aware of my surroundings and the impact that I may be having on others because it's critical for my survival, both literally and professionally, to make sure that I'm being thoughtful about how they come across. As a black man, so I just like being more intersectional to them. I'm not just black. I'm not just a man, like I'm a I'm a black man, and I'm a young black man. And I'm a tall, large black man. So like, as I think about all of those various intersections within my own identity, I think about the fact that it's easy for me to be perceived as a threat. So it's not just in when I'm driving from work and I get pulled over by the police and I'm asked if I'm selling drugs, and which has happened. It's not when I'm just walking in the park in my company's parking garage, and then being told that I don't work in demanded, and someone demands to see it and I refuse and they call the police like, which has happened. Betsy 10:17 Right and I can tell you and the audience that's never happened to me, and probably never will. I can walk into all sorts of places that I don't belong, and be perceived that I do belong there. Zach 10:33 Right, right in like in those are those that I only want to lead with those extreme examples because they those are real experiences for me, but I want to lead with those extreme examples to then bring up like, some more passive or practical examples of the idea of me managing my presence, or managing myself so that I'm not perceived as a threat transitions into work when I'm in a meeting and I have to I have to release my own passion, and, and point of view so that people don't take me as being arrogant or aggressive. Or I have to really watch how I frame things because I don't want to come across too pessimistic or negative or belittling. Whereas if someone if a white man had said something very similar, it was like a smartass comment. It wouldn't be perceived as being me being a smartass, it would be me, it would be me perceived as being smart, or gutsy, or whatever the case may be. So like, I'm constantly having to think through those things. And I think because of those experiences, Betsy, I've been better able to empathize with other underrepresented people, whether that be my colleagues or clients, and what it really means to make sure that you're building effective relationships because I've been on the other side, I know what it would look like. I know what it feels like to be on. undermined, I know what it feels like to be constantly questioned or the lens of critique being just like people looking at you extremely critically, I understand what that looks like. And because I understand those feelings, I'm able to then build relationships. One of the biggest points of feedback, I'm in my favor that I've received, like positive points of feedback is that is my ability to quickly build connections with people. And, you know, I have other like, technical skills and things of that nature, but like, what I really believe has helped me in my career so far is I'm able to figure out actual points of resonance with individual. And that comes from being someone who constantly is seeking to, you know, figure out because I'm on the outside looking in, I gotta always figure out a I'm always looking for an in because I don't necessarily have the privilege of being a other being assume that I belong, I have to constantly prove that I belong wherever I show up. Betsy 13:00 I bet your communication skills have really improved or become one of your strengths because of that as well. Zach 13:08 I think so i think so some people say I used to big words, my words are too big and that my syntax is odd, which likely could be true. I mean, but I try, I'm trying to do better. And I've been told that I'm a fairly good communicator by some. Betsy 13:22 Yes, I think you're an excellent communicator. And so when we think about the audience of my podcast, which is going to be we're talking about people with ADHD, dyslexia, learning disabilities, and autism in the workplace. So these are people who are very high functioning, people who have these differences in the way their brain works and how they interact with the world. And what I've been really surprised about as I've kind of launched this project and launched my software is when I've talked to people and many of them are white men, about these issues, and some of them I've gone to ask business questions to, you know, what do you think of this pitch? What do you think of that? I had no idea that they had one of these conditions. They've expressed their embarrassment about it. And their hesitance to tell their employers about these differences that they have. And I've been sworn to secrecy many times with people who have, you know, confided in me about Oh, yeah, I have ADHD that I don't tell anyone, or have dyslexia, but I don't tell anyone. You as a black man don't have that. You don't have that option, right. You're like, your differences right there in front of you, in front of the world and I just keep thinking about the fact that if we could all embrace our own differences and being very open and vulnerable about that, what a difference that would make. And race relations, gender relations, the impact of people with all sorts of disabilities on the world. And I just think it could be huge if we all realize that we all are different from each other and the whole you know, snowflake idea of the young kids who are considered snowflakes and, they'll melt if anybody hurts their feelings or whatever. But we are all different. And that doesn't mean we all need to be handled carefully. That means we all need to embrace our differences and try to build up our strengths and understand the strengths and differences and and other people. Zach15:57 Right, right. Zach 15:59 No, yes. Right. And you know, it's what's interesting is when I think about when I think about this topic, one, it is incredible. And it's, it's, it's beautiful that you're, you're focusing on this, you know, I was we just when you talk about disability you know, we live in corporate podcast we had, I guess your name is Melissa Thompson. And she's the CEO and founder of ramp your voice and it's all about highlighting and Amplifying Voices of black and brown disabled folks, because there's an equity even in that space which I, for me, you know, and I admitted this when I spoke with Alyssa I said was I looked at I said, look at it. Admittedly, I don't think that I think about the experiences of disabled people, be they visible or invisible. I don't that's not a part of my common practice, right. I don't think about the reality that there's privileges that come with that like, like the fact that I can opt in and out of these types of discussions is a privilege. And, so it's really interesting and to your point around, like visible and invisible But I want to think about when I think about that it's something else be interesting as you like as, as this platform continues to build is the thing about the intersection of underrepresented identities and disability. I just sent an article very interesting and it's called, I just sent an article we can maybe check it out at another time, but it was written by Steve Silberman on May 17 2016, called the invisibility of black autism. Why generations of early autistic black children have been diagnosed ADHD or even mental retardation instead. It's a really interesting piece. I literally just found it, but it's just talking but it but it prompted in spark to me like, what does it look like to one like this entire group and then make sure that would be intersection between those experiences right like, I bet you like I honestly don't. Again, I have so much to learn I you know about this space I am woefully under educated and under informed. And again, not because the information isn't out there. But because of my privilege, I just don't think about it. I think I think honestly, this is probably the most This is the closest I think I can get to really directly empathizing with members of the majority who just don't think about, right, Betsy 8:56 right, right. Right. Zach 18:58 I can really empathize with that. Because I generally just don't think about it. It's not that I don't care. It's not that I don't. Or it's not. It's not that I'm being malicious about it. It's not like I'm against anybody. I just because of my privilege, I don't think about it. So I'm just really excited about your platform. I'm really excited about your pockets and the cloud to continue to learn. Betsy 19:17 Well, I can tell you as I am, because I'm developing a software, it's also under this umbrella of For All Abilities, that helps employers support their employees with ADHD, dyslexia, learning disabilities, and autism. I've asked many of my friends who own companies, how do you support your employees with these disabilities? And they have all said to me, except for one, h, “I don't have employees with any of these disabilities.” And I'm like, ‘Yeah, you do”. You may not know it, but you do and these are my friends who are nice people who are good bosses. And you know, good business owners you want to do the right thing. It's just something that has not been something that people are aware of it, and the workplace and or, you know, in life in general. And again, back to the point I'm going to put that article in the show notes that you're speaking of. And I can tell you from my work in education, that I can I definitely see that. You know, one of the problems is that in order to really get good specialist services, or services for someone with dyslexia, you really have to have a family that's really fighting for you. And that means you have to have parents who have the education, the time and the energy and the confidence to say, “No, my kid is smart, that they learn differently, and you need to do something about it.” That makes a huge divide in who is getting appropriate education and who is not. I'm extremely passionate about that, as well, because I've seen it's not just about going to a school that may offer those services, it's about actually being able to access those services. And the haves and have nots in that space are drastically different. It's really sad and it's really affecting our society. I believe it will continue to affect it more and more until we do something about that. And I don't see a lot of awareness about it. You know, I see a lot of people say, oh, they're in the same school district they should be getting the same. No, they're not. If you don't have “that mom”, who is “that mom”, which I am that mom with my son, and you're not getting the services that you need. Zach 22:18 I think it's just it's so interesting too, because even in that intersects with like, where you're what school you're in and the resources and awareness that your parents or family may even have about what this is, right? Like, that's about it. And that's what apologize, black and brown soul or just non white folks, or even or even under resourced people it's like, a lot of times they don't know. So it's like, Okay, well, okay, you're not doing well in school, we just need to try harder, you need to study harder. And we don't even necessarily know that there may be a challenge or a problem and then you end up just kind of getting stuck in the system. I'll say another thing about for me, I'll never forget when I was in seventh grade, I moved up to Minnesota to live with my dad for a couple years. And without taking a test, without doing anything, the administrators at the middle school tried to pressure me into going into one of the remedial classes. I was one of like, 15 black kids at that school. And, you know, what if I was also going to throw in the Latin x folks, I would say there were like 20 Brown kids. And I just think about what if I would have just said yes? Betsy 23:54 Right or like maybe your family would have thought, obviously there's something going on. We need this. This is what we do. Right? You're brought up to not question authority, like teachers, principals, doctors, police. When you're brought up to not question that, you trust that they have your child's best interest at heart. Zach 24:21 Right. Right. Betsy 24:24 Yeah. That's terrible. I'm glad you fought against that. Zach 24:33 Yeah. Well, it was interesting, because, for me, you know, they asked me a couple times, and I just said, I said, No. Then they asked me again, I said, No. And then I went home. I told my dad and he was like, What did you say? I said, No, he was like, Okay, yeah, no, you're not gonna do that. Interesting, though, because even though I was like an A and B students know that there were these like comments made from my English teacher like, Hey, you know, you don't have to read such Big books. You don't have to work this hard. It was very interesting. What does it look like to be in an educational environment? Where if you're already being discounted because of let's just say, I don't know, right, so I'm not? I don't I have no idea but I'm, what I'm saying is, if there's a possibility that you're already being discounted because you are different, you are other than the majority. What does it also look like to have actual challenges, learning differences that impact that, right? Like, if, if one looks at a black woman and automatically already assumes that she is not as talented or capable as her white counterparts, but then she also fully discloses, Hey, I also have dyslexia. What does that look like? As a manager? What does it look like as a leader? How do you manage the biases you already have? On top of the ignorance and bias that you have? Because you don't know what dyslexia is? You don't know what that means. You don't know. How do you manage performance in light of those things? Right, like, that's a very complex topic. Betsy 26:02 It is it is. I'm really hoping to shed some light on it. So at least people realize that it's something that's going on out there. And then hopefully my tool will help employers support people and realize that. My big thing is I know I told you this on our previous conversation is that I think people think I'm a disability advocate. And I'm really an advocate for people. And I really believe that we should all feel valued, and we should all feel like we are productive, and we are working toward the greater good. I believe everybody wants that. I think everyone wants that about themselves. I don't think there's anybody on this planet that really wants to be sitting around and not working, or not be not be productive. I think people have been trained to act that way, by feeling like they aren't good enough. And they don't have anything to offer society. So they feel like whether it's and I think that crosses every segment of difference as well. You know, you're, you have a disability, ,you've been made to feel that way. You are a different color than the majority. So you're made to feel that way. Your family isn't as educated or doesn't have as much money. And so you're made to feel that way. And, and then you learn and he's, you know, kids start learning that at a very young age, and I believe frequently it's amplified in the school system, and then once they get into work, if they make it there, that's amplified again, you, you're not, you're not good enough, you're not the same. Okay, I give up, you know, I'll just go sit and watch TV for the rest of my life then because I'm not good enough to do anything productive for this world. And to me that is so tragic. And I see it growing rather than shrinking and that is what's so disturbing to me but hopefully you and I and lots of our our counterparts can make a difference in this and our world can start celebrating differences rather than trying to make everybody the same. Zach 28:32 Absolutely. I mean, that's the goal, right. Like, and I think what I'm excited about is, I think we both, what we're both doing is we're doing that through some narrative stories are like really understanding people's backgrounds, their passions, why they do what they do. That's, to me, that's just one of the best ways to learn. Betsy 28:50 Right, right. . Most of my listeners now and i think you know, I had a previous podcast called Your App Lady and I decided to rebrand into this because I did hear so many people and so many families telling me, “we don't tell we tell our child not to, not to tell me when they take medication, not to tell anyone they have ADHD”. And I'm like, really? It really surprised me at first because I was like, I mean, I've never, I personally have never thought of ADHD is really being like, that's not that bad. There are so many brilliant people with ADHD that change our world. But then I heard it over and over and over again. And I was like, I need to launch this podcast and tell these stories and make people realize that they may be different, but they can do so much with their differences and we all have value. And you know us you being a black man maybe that's your superpower. You know, that's what that's what made you the person that you are today and made you contribute to society in the way that you have. I want people to see those differences as their superpower, not as their weakness. Zach 30:18 Hey, man, that's awesome. I don't have this is not my podcast. so you know, I have a sound if I were to use my soundboard I would put a lot of applause right here. So your differences are your super power. And I think when you're in an environment that recognizes those differences as superpowers and don't see them as something that needs to be quashed or diminished then it's all the better, right? Betsy 30:48 Absolutely. That's all the better. Well, I think that is a great note to end on. So thank you so much for joining me today. Zach. I'm going to put all your info in the show notes but tell my audience how people can find you if they want to connect with you further. Zach 31:05 Oh man well thank you so much. First of all, Betsy again, it is a wonderful platform, excited to learn and grow with you alongside you and really journey with you. So thank you again. Yes, so Zach Nunn, founder CEO of Living Corporate living corporate and you can google live in corporate but we're also www dot living dash corporate compensated day we're also live in corporate co living corporate that tv live in corporate.org live in corporate that us live in corporate net, we have all the living corporate, Betsy 31:41 All of them! Zach 31:43 Except we live in corporate dot Comm. But we have all the other living corporates, okay. So if you've been living corporate, co or living corporate values, or any of those, or you type in living dash, corporate com, Robin and I'll give you the link. So let's be real simple for you. And then we're on all the different streaming platforms. So if you go on any cloud Your Spotify iTunes whatever you look at living corporate we're on Instagram at living corporate and we're on twitter at living corp underscore pod Betsy 32:10 Awesome. Well thank you so much and I hope you have a wonderful day I think you have been a wonderful first guest for my new podcast For All Abilities. Zach 32:22 Yo shout out to For All Abilities! Love you guys, can't wait to hear more. I'll be tuned in, subscribe, we'll make sure that we tell folks over at Living Corporate too. Betsy 32:32 Awesome thank you so much. Zach 32:34 No problem peace. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
This is episode one of For All Abilities – The Podcast! Welcome! This podcast celebrates the strengths in our differences! I will feature people who are living successful lives with ADHD, Dyslexia, Learning Differences and Autism. Please subscribe to the podcast! For more information about our software go to www.forallabilities.com. Please follow us on Instagram - @forallabilities and FaceBook – For All Abilities. Follow me on Linkedin – Betsy Furler. Transcription of For All Abilities Episode One: Hi, Your App Lady friends! have a big announcement today. As you know, you haven't heard from me in a while. My son had a very serious bout with autoimmune encephalitis. He was diagnosed in November of last year. And that really put a damper on everything I was doing. But the good news is he is better than ever now. He is well on the road to recovery and is getting the treatment for autoimmune encephalitis, which is IVIG infusions. It's basically taking the immune systems through blood products from thousands of other people putting it into one infusion and allowing his immune system to be overtaken by many, many other people's immune systems. That's the treatment for autoimmune encephalitis, but it seems to be the treatment for whatever has been wrong with Henry for 21 years. So after 21 years of going down the wrong path medically with treatments for him, we seem to finally have hit something that is actually helping tremendously, helping his seizures and helping him recover. He has a bit of a difference in the way that his brain works now, because of the swelling from the autoimmune encephalitis, but that seems to be 100% reversible and every day is a is a better day for him. We have had little setbacks here and there, but overall, he is doing so so well. I have launched a new business and I'm going to launch a podcast that's going to match that business. It's called For All Abilities. I'm developing software that helps employers support their employees with ADHD, dyslexia, learning disabilities and high functioning autism. I'm super excited about this because I keep running across people who have these diagnoses and really their brain is not broken. their brain is just working in a very different way. And often that difference in how their brain works actually is their superpower. I want to start focusing on that and showcasing these people. So many people have come to me and been embarrassed that they have ADHD or dyslexia, or high functioning autism, or don't want to tell other people about it, because they think it makes them less. I think it makes them more and I want to start showcasing all of that, and talking to people who are living amazing, successful lives with these diagnoses. For All Abilities: The Podcast is going to be all about the superpowers that people have that sometimes our society calls it disabilities, but I really do think all of our abilities should be celebrated. We shouldn't be focusing on people's weaknesses or needs. We should be focusing on their strengths and differences. The differences are what makes our world go around. Really none of us fit in that box called the norm. All of us have differences. And if we embrace those, I think our world can be a much better place. Coming very soon, will be my new podcast called For All Abilities. I'm going to just rebrand Your App Lady into For All Abilities. I hope that works okay for most of my audience. It is an easier way for me to do it. And it keeps the past Your App Lady podcasts on Libsyn, which is the organization that helps get it out to all the different podcast apps. I am all about making my life as easy as I can. So that's what I'm going to do and I hope you continue to listen and find out about these amazing stories of people who are using their differences to strengthen our world. I will see you soon This is Betsy. Bye!
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