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The deeper that we go into this letter, the more we begin to see the necessary qualities of an elder. In our society, we often value what seems to be productive. Yet what St. John emphasizes is the heart of the elder. One cannot offer care to another soul unless they have struggled long and hard with their own passions and are able to look at those who come to them through the lens of compassion, humility, and the love of Christ.  Repeatedly, we are shown the care that the elder must exhibit in his approach to those who come to him. He cannot be easily agitated when anger or hostility are directed toward him. Nor can he show disgust at the past or present behavior of another. He does not condescend, but rather makes himself the servant of one like himself – one who knows the deep wounds of sin; often wounds that are self inflicted.  Therefore, John tells us it is not right for a lion to pasture sheep, and it is not safe for a man who is still subject to the passions to rule over passionate men. One who does not seek to tend to the wounded, but rather to rule - one who does not seek to lead by example, but rather instruct with force - is going to be a gross distortion of the image of Christ. The elder must have the greatest sensitivity to the needs and the struggles of those who come to him, realizing that there is great variety and difference between individuals. Thus, an elder must be the most obedient and humble of souls; that is, he must have a refined ability to hear the truth, to hear the word of God spoken in his heart, and he must possess discernment that is born of humility. An elder can only see in others what he has contemplated in himself.  His awareness of the wounds that others bear only help him to understand that they are his responsibility. He approaches others not in a detached fashion, but as one who shares deeply in their sorrow and desires their healing as he desires his own. In this, St. John tells us Christ is the standard. The elder must receive all that is thrust upon him with the same selfless love that we witness on the cross. It is here that we begin to understand that John is not simply speaking about monks. He speaks to all of us and the necessity of taking Christ at his word; to love others as he has loved us, to be willing to lay down our lives for others, including those who treat us like enemies. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:09:11 Anna Lalonde: Pray because I was just anointed. Been not well since late Sept. 00:10:02 Janine: Yes Anna…I will pray for you! 00:10:09 Bob Cihak, AZ: Replying to "Pray because I was j..." Will do. God bless you. 00:10:50 Rebecca Thérèse: Reacted to "Pray because I was j..." with

We continued our reading and discussion of the treatment and cures that the spiritual father must understand for every malady that afflicts a person in the spiritual life. He must understand not only how to apply them but also the manner they are applied to each individual person with their unique needs. No person is the same and in the spiritual battle the elder must understand the subtle manifestations of spiritual illness and the manner in which various cures might be applied. One of the most striking aspects of tonight's discussion was on the capacity of the elder to be free from and endure nausea and to be able to untiringly strive to dispel the stench of vomit. Of course, St. John is speaking about sin itself and the willingness of the elder to enter into the darkness in which the other person finds himself; to descend into their hell and to endure the stench of sin itself. The capacity to do this comes through engaging in the spiritual battle throughout the course of one's life and attending in obedience to the counsel of one's own spiritual father. The lack of nausea and the ability to endure the stench of the vomit of sin comes from having long been immersed in it through one's own struggles. Compassion is born in a powerful way through the experience of common trials.  Beyond this, St. John tells that the shepherd must experience blessed dispassion. In other words, he must be free of the passions that would blind him and his ability to discern the particular needs of those in his care. This discernment allows the elder to illuminate the path that leads to repentance and so gives him the capacity to “resurrect every dead soul”. This is the identity that every Christian soul should seek to embrace. While it's true that not everyone is called to be a spiritual elder, every Christian by virtue of their baptism is called to the holiness described here and given the responsibility for the care of souls in their midst. We are responsible for the salvation and goodwill of those around us as much as we are responsible for our own. --- Text of chat during the group: 00:04:47 Anna Lalonde: Well my kids learned to walk up our hallway wall today so you up for that Father?

Series: All! Jesus has all authority, So that all nationsMight pledge all allegiance to him.Title: “Why did Jesus come to earth?Scripture: Matthew 20:20-34Heavily indebted to Douglas Sean O'Donnell's & David Platt's commentaries for this message. (See below)Bottom line: The way of greatness is the narrow way as seen in the humble example and sacrificial substitution of Jesus Christ on the cross. ““Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NIV‬‬ https://bible.com/bible/111/mat.7.14.NIVThe cross of Christ is great because It shows that humble servanthood and sacrificial suffering are exalted actions, (Example) and It gave eternal life to many as he died in their place. (Substitution)“The first reason can be shortened to Jesus' death as example, the second reason to Jesus' death as substitution.” -O'DonnellDISCUSSION QUESTIONSSERMON OUTLINE & NOTESMAIN REFERENCES USEDDISCUSSION QUESTIONSDiscussion questions for group and personal study. Reflect and Discuss:1. How does the misguided approach of the disciples beginning in Matthew 20:20 parallel your own approach to God and the Christian life?2. How does Jesus' healing of the blind men in Matthew 20:29-34 contrast with the request for privilege by James and John in the previous paragraph?3. Why can't grace and pride coexist? Can you think of other Scriptural passages that speak to this truth?Final Questions (optional or in place of above)What is God saying to you right now? What are you going to do about it?Find our sermons, podcasts, discussion questions and notes at https://www.gracetoday.net/podcastWeekly questions I answer in preparation for the sermon:Q. What do I want you to know? A. Why Jesus came to earth. That he came not to be served but to serve and give his life as a ransom. And he came to show us how to live after our rescue. He came to show us how to live and to empower us to live that way.Q. Why? A. To remind us why we follow Jesus in this way. His example and sacrificial act should inspire us through gratitude.Q. What do I want you to do? A. Live like he lived serving others sacrificially. (SOS)Q. Why? A. Because his example and his substitution are worthy of our entire lives. This is why we were saved in the first place.OUTLINE & NOTESIntroductionHow to Avoid the Titanic Mistake (by Rick Warren via Nicky Gumbel)James Cameron, director of the movie *Titanic,* describes the Titanic as a ‘metaphor' of life: ‘We are all living on… [the] Titanic.' When the Titanic set sail in 1912, it was declared to be ‘unsinkable' because it was constructed using a new technology. The ship's hull was divided into sixteen watertight compartments. Up to four of these compartments could be damaged or even flooded, and still the ship would float. Tragically, the Titanic sank on 15 April 1912 at 2.20 am. 1,513 people lost their lives. (111 years ago almost to the day)At the time, it was thought that five of its watertight compartments had been ruptured in a collision with an iceberg. However, on 1 September 1985, when the wreck of the Titanic was found lying upright on the ocean floor, there was no sign of the long gash previously thought to have been ripped in the ship's hull. What they discovered was that damage to one compartment affected all the rest. Many people make the Titanic mistake. They think they can divide their lives into different ‘compartments' and that what they do in one will not affect the rest. However, as Rick Warren (from whom I have taken this illustration) says, ‘*A life of integrity is one that is not divided into compartments.'* David prayed for ‘*an undivided heart*' (Psalm 86:11). He led the people with ‘*integrity of heart*' (78:72). Supremely, Jesus was a ‘*man of integrity*' (Matthew 22:16; Mark 12:14). I would add that what makes this sinking so tragic is the hubris behind the idea that because of technological cleverness, they could move full steam ahead without concern for anything bad happening. But they were vulnerable because of this. So are we.Bottom line: The way of greatness is the narrow way as seen in the humble example and sacrificial substitution of Jesus Christ on the cross. Why did Jesus come? “To serve and give his life as a ransom for many.” (20:28)He came to show us how to live and to empower us to live that way.Because…5 reasons:He came to suffer. The “cup” was descriptive of Jesus “drinking down the wrath of God in the place of sinners.” (Platt, p. 271)He came to save. “Ransom is a word that can refer to a payment made to release someone from slavery.” As in slavery to pay off a debt.He came to be our substitute. “For” can also be translated “in place of.” Read the verse again substituting these words (no pun intended). He died for you but he also died instead of you.He came to show us how to live. A different kind of leadership.To selflessly live for the good of others instead of yourself.Love people by serving people.SOS = Serving Others SacrificiallyJames was beheaded and John was exiled to the island of Patmos. This kind of sacrificial service is what defines kingdom greatness.He came to serve us. He came to be our lowly servant by becoming a man and providing salvation for us. The one who deserves to be served came to serve, and this service was ultimately demonstrated on the cross.Cf. Phil 2:3-8 Furthermore, He said He came “to give His life a ransom for many.” Some scholars say Jesus paid a ransom to the devil to set us free, but that is not the biblical picture. It is true that ransoms were paid in military tribunals in antiquity to secure the release of those who were held captive by the enemy. More frequently, however, ransoms were paid to secure the freedom of those who could not pay their debts and were facing indentured servitude. Jesus paid a ransom to purchase His beloved people out of their bondage to sin. Is it any wonder that the Apostle Paul says, “You were bought at a price” (1 Cor. 6:20)Jesus is our servant. But this doesn't mean I tell Jesus what to do. It does mean Jesus gives us what we need.We are Jesus' servants. But this doesn't mean that Jesus needs our aid.This does mean that we submit to Jesus' authority.Two Blind MenApplications:Boldly confess your need for his mercy.Humbly believe in his power to do the miraculous.ConclusionA missionary to Africa told someone, “When we want to share the gospel in a village in Africa, we don't send them books. We send them a Christian family.”Why is it better to send the family than some books? It's certainly cheaper. Seems more efficient. But this experienced missionary understood that the Christian life lived like Jesus would demonstrate the love of God through serving others sacrificially. Therefore, the gospel wouldn't just be taught but caught. It's not about putting God or our church experience into a compartment and then living the rest of our lives without a care for what Jesus did for us. We recognize that we are vulnerable if even one compartment gets hit. We need God to cover everything in our lives. We must live with him at the center of our lives as we trust and follow him completely.What about your neighbors? Co-workers? Classmates? Teammates? Coffee dates?Bottom line: The way of greatness is the narrow way as seen in the humble example and sacrificial substitution of Jesus Christ on the cross. Q. What do I want you to do? A. Live like he lived serving others sacrificially. (SOS)Q. Why? A. Because his example and his substitution are worthy of our entire lives. This is why we were saved in the first place.NotesLGLP = SGSPCompassion motivated by loveSOS = Serve Others SacrificiallySearch and Rescue Operation at great personal riskMatthew 20:17-28Mrs. Zebedee (Salome?) asks Jesus to elevate her 2 sons to second highest in his kingdom. She obviously thinks they deserve it and she wants the honor for them and for herself. Some think that Salome is Mary's sister (Jesus' mother Mary) so they'd be related. This seems inappropriate to ask. Perhaps she feels so safe with Jesus (they were among the earliest followers) that she boldly asks the desire of her heart. And is it really a bad thing for a parent to want to see their sons in such a prominent, honorable position empowered to serve under Jesus' reign?Jesus clearly sees the inappropriateness of her question. For he makes decisions by the leading of the Holy Spirit. she may not yet realize that. Jesus gives 2 responses:“You don't know what you are asking.” Because she—and they—don't yet see that his kingdom is not of this world. That his kingdom is not run like other king domes. Her ignorance is not her fault.“Can you drink the cup I am going to drink?” This question seems to be directed towards her sons (you is plural) for they answer Jesus. The “cup” refers to God's holy wrath for the sins of the world. This will happen at the cross. It refers to suffering for his kingdom cause/mission. Now they may know what he's referring to. After all, he just shared that in vv. 17-19 (and that for the 3rd time)Well, whether they do or not, they answer that they can drink from that cup. It's hard to believe that they comprehend what that could be like. In our zeal, we all tend to be overly optimistic about what we can and will do. Certainly they are willing. “The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.”Jealous replies that they will indeed drink from the same cup but ot so they can get what they want. That's for the Father to decide. Of course, the other 10 are infuriated about this because eitherIt's inappropriate for them to ask,It means they think they're more worthy and that Jesus might choose them. Hence, jealousy, orIt means they asked first and the rest missed their chance. Jesus moves now to teach them a kingdom principle: unlike the rulers of the kingdom of this world, if you want to be great or first in God's kingdom, you must serve others sacrificially. (SOS)Jesus is the ultimate SOS example. He served by literally exchanging his life for ours at the cross. Great love!O'Donnell says that Mrs. Zebedee's question is cowardly, commendable and condemnable. Cowardly in that the guys seem to have put their mother up to it. (Maybe not, but they didn't stop her either; this is bold for a woman (unless she's Jesus' auntie))Commendable in that they believed Jesus' kingdom was inevitable. Condemnable in that they were asking for glory when Jesus just said he was going to pathway of shame via the cross. Who are they to think their path would be any better? “Jesus will be lifted up on a tree, and these boys want to be lifted up to thrones number two and three.”I would like to add some thoughts here on American Christianity and our collective desire to be in power politically. Our desires to affect change in our culture is not bad in and of itself. But the way we tend to want to go about it is the same as the “Gentiles” and Romans did. (And everyone else) We want to operate from a position of power. But Jesus calls us to change our ambition from being served and first to being he servant and slave and last. Who's doing this today? Very few.What I'm trying to say is that I wonder if we're not operating more like Mrs. Zebedee, James and John than we are like Jesus.Matthew 20:29-34Two blind men are out panning for alms as they likely did every day. They hear a large crowd coming. They're excited because they've already heard that Jesus of Nazareth is coming through. They believe he will heal them.So when he comes through, they cry out for mercy. They call him:Lord = master, sir at the very least; but, in context, probably even Messiah Son of David = Not only a king in David's dynasty but the prophesied king of kings (divine)Have mercy on us. They are indeed in need of mercy. They can't see and so are dependent on others for most needs. Those they depend on already have a hard life.lJesus stops after they cry out again (despite the crowd's reaction) and asks them what they want him to do for them. They reply they want what they obviously need—to see. Jesus, motivated by compassion, gives them what they ask for but way more than they asked for. He gave them the ability to seeIn this worldInto the next world. This was the greater blessing.So Jesus models SOS adding a key ingredient to the recipe of LP: Compassion. That is our motive—the mercy and love of God for those in need around us.Notes from Douglas Sean O'DonnellNothing funny about prideful ambition.O'Donnell says that Mrs. Zebedee's question is cowardly, commendable and condemnable. Cowardly in that the guys seem to have put their mother up to it. (Maybe not, but they didn't stop her either; this is bold for a woman (unless she's Jesus' auntie))Commendable in that they believed Jesus' kingdom was inevitable. Condemnable in that they were asking for glory when Jesus just said he was going to pathway of shame via the cross. Who are they to think their path would be any better? “Jesus will be lifted up on a tree, and these boys want to be lifted up to thrones number two and three.”2 lessons:“We should recognize that true faith and real error can be mixed in the heart of the Brest Christian's…Thus we ought to persistently pray for purity, and we ought to gently seek to purify one another.”“Do we believe Jesus will reign? Do we give a passing thought to the eternal kingdom? Do we hope to get a good spot in it?Jesus won't condemn the 12 but he will correct them.He's given us his last-first theology (his view of kingdom greatness) twice in these last 2 sections in Matthew. He follows with telling them why the cross is so great:“The cross of Christ is so great because it shows that humble servant hood and sacrificial suffering are exalted actions. “The cross of Christ is so great because the two-day death of one man gave eternal life to many.”lJesus' Death as an Example“Jesus' corrective her is straightforward: A. Gentile or pagan rulers rule this way because they view greatness this way; B. You are to rule another way because you view greatness in the opposite way; and C. That way is the way of the cross. And the way of the cross is humble servanthood.”“Whoever would be great among youMust be your servant.Whoever would be firstMust be your slave.” Vv. 26-27Synonymous focus:“I'll put it this way. Do you want to be ‘great'? Then you need to be a ‘servant' (diakonos)—that is, wait tables, serve others. Do you want to not just be ‘great' but to be ‘first' I(the first among the greats)? Then you need to be a ‘slave' (doulos)—that is, someone ‘who has no right or existence on his own, how lives solely for others.” P. 571“Our culture ‘ceaselessly' directs us up, up, up; we must ‘pray almost daily for the wisdom and courage' to go down, down, down.” “He descended into greatness.” Cf. Phil 2:5-11Jesus' Death as a Substitution“The cross of Christ is so great because the three-day (Good Friday, Holy Saturday) death of one man gave eternal ire to many. The first reason can be shortened to Jesus' death as example, the second reason to Jesus' death as substitution. 3 Key words: (2 from v. 28)“For” — or “in the place of”; The preposition means substitution“Cup” — 1) “the hostilities that arise from faithful gospel proclamation and living?, 2) “God's wrathful judgment upon wickedness.”“Ransom” — The price paid to release slaves. “It could also refer to money pain int he place of capital punishment.”MAIN REFERENCES USED“Preaching the Word” Commentary, Douglas Sean O'Donnell, Edited by Kent Hughes“Matthew” by RC Sproul“The Bible Knowledge Commentary” by Walvoord, Zuck (BKC)“The Bible Exposition Commentary” by Warren Wiersbe (BEC)“Exalting Jesus in Matthew” by David Platt (CCE)Outline Bible, D WillmingtonNIV Study Bible (NIVSB)ESV Study Bible (ESVSB)

Overview David marketed throughout his career and has used that information to get his books into bookstores. Book https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TNPPZXW?binding=kindle_edition&searchxofy=true&qid=1664217895&sr=8-2&linkCode=ll2&tag=discoveredwordsmiths-20&linkId=f48c82d9de91dd1a77931dbbf8f01f08&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl YouTube https://youtu.be/PjtRr3E5ms8 Transcript Let's move on and talk some author stuff for all the authors listening. So before we talk about our topic, which is going to be lessons learned in marketing what are some things you personally have learned? You mentioned some things you've learned from your editor. How to write what to put in the book and that, so talk about some of those things that you've learned from when you started with book one to now with book five. [00:25:26] David: One of the big things that I've learned and I had a a professor that I I went to for some help sometimes. And. He told me I had a, I tried to overwrite things and I remember one thing that he told me, he says, trust your reader. He says, they're smart enough to read. They read one of your books, they can read at least of an eighth grade level. And he said, trust them, you don't have to tell 'em over and over. about something. And that, that I did that in my first book. And I got away from that. I learned and there's just a lot of things. A good editor can point out to. That you do. And any of these independents that write books and don't get a good editor and have a thorough editor, not just one editor. I, I have a editor that I use just for Spanish because I use a lot of Spanish words in my books. And I have them check to make sure that the Spanish in my books. Is correct. And that, that's the thing about the Indies and they, when they went to everybody, started going to the, in indie or self-published they, we can just let's face it. We can put a book out there and throw it up on, on the deal. Have an ebook overnight. A lot of stuff's got out there. That's just not good literature and we've gotta. The all authors have gotta make sure their works are edited, properly edited and formated and ready to be published. I think that's key and I've always done that cause I'm whatever I do, I want it done. [00:27:04] Stephen: Okay, nice. And that's a good lesson right there. And when you're writing, so you're in your RV and you've got your dog helping you out. So what do you use to write what services or what software do you like, or do you do anything special with your writing? [00:27:19] David: Not anything special. I put everything on this laptop right here that we're, I've written three books on this laptop that we're using here to communicate with. I take it along. It's a small laptop I use word and I get it all together and I don't worry. Too much about my grammar or anything at that as I'm reading it, I'm trying to get the story out as it's in my mind. And one of the fallacies that I have when I get into a good scene, I'll sometimes write till I just can't go anymore. I think the record is about 18 hours, but I had a good scene going. It was up here. And I wanted to get it. I wanted to get it on paper, so that's that's how I write. And I don't have anything special software or anything like that. But I have some good people. I have a good assistant who goes over and she's got an Eagle eye. She can miss a. If I see something or just a little space off she's on top of it. And I get it, her to get it in tip top shape before I go to an editor. But I use in this last book, I had six what I call advanced readers. Once we got the manuscript where we thought it ought to be, I sent it out to six good readers who I knew and never. Ever ask somebody that loves you to critique your work. always find somebody afar. That'll do and give you a good a good critique, [00:28:53] Stephen: right? I, yeah I found that out. I had several close friends and family members read my book a...

PODCAST SATELLITETHE VOICE OF ISRAEL10TH of Adar I, 5782 Prince HandleyPresident / RegentUniversity of Excellence LOCATION OF THE JEWISH TEMPLE ~ PART 3 EVIDENCE FROM TANAKH עדות כתבי הקודש למיקום המקדש   Prince Handley 24/7 Commentary (FREE) > BLOG Email this message to a friend and help them! ____________________________ DESCRIPTION This is Part Three in a Series to develop a construct proving that the Jewish Temple was NOT on the traditional location (referred to as the Temple Mount), but was in the City of David. We will discuss the following: Scriptural evidence of where the Tabernacle and the Temple were located in the old City of David (at Mount Zion) in the area of Gihon Spring. ____________________________   LOCATION OF THE JEWISH TEMPLE ~ PART 3 EVIDENCE FROM TANAKH   The construction of the Third Jewish Temple could begin immediately IF the Jewish leaders ... and the Temple Institute ... understood that the First and Second Jewish Temples were NEVER located on the Dome of the Rock Complex; Haram al-Sharif. This is Part Three in a Series to develop a construct proving that the Jewish Temple was NOT on the traditional location (referred to as the Temple Mount), but was in the City of David. In this message we develop the construct that the First and Second Jewish Temples were located on the original Mount Zion in the old City of David in the area of Gihon Spring―NOT at what is commonly referred to as the Temple Mount area (Dome of the Rock … or … Haram al-Sharif). ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ NOTICE 138 UN Nations adopted a resolution that referred to Jerusalem's Temple Mount solely by its Muslim name of Haram al-Sharif … one of seven resolutions passed November 4, 2021, that single out or condemn Israel, with ZERO condemnations on the entire rest of the world (including China, North Korea, Iran and Russia). ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ THE TEMPLE AND MOUNT ZION BOTH CONNECT WITH THE OLD CITY OF DAVID According to Scripture the Temple has to be in the confines of the old City of David―NOT in the area commonly referred to as the Temple Mount, or Haram al-Sharif (muslim Dome of the Rock platform). “Nevertheless, David took the stronghold of Zion (that is, the City of David)” [2 Samuel 5:7] This shows that Zion is within the City of David. “Arise, O Lord, to your resting place, You and the ark of Your strength … For the Lord has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His dwelling place.” [Psalm 132:8,13] The “ark of Your strength” is the Ark of the Covenant. The Temple will house the Ark … and Zion is God's chosen place for that … as well as the Temple placement. “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord. To the house of the God of Jacob … For out of Zion shall go forth the Law ...” [Isaiah 2:3] “Mountain of the Lord” is the Temple at Zion. “Sing praises to the Lord, who dwells in Zion.” [Joel 3:21] The Lord dwells in the Temple at Zion. “Now Solomon began to build the house of the Lord at Jerusalem … at the place that David had prepared on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.” [2 Chronicles 3:1] The Temple will be built in the explicit confines of the City of David (which is the same boundary of the Jebusite city.) The stronghold of Zion―Metsudat Tsion―is located in the narrow perimeter of the 12 acre parcel of land known as the City of David. If Scrpture is our primary source there is NO other place the Temples can be located but within the geographic area of the stronghold of Zion. Professor Birch from England rediscovered the real Zion at the lower edge of the southeast ridge in the City of David during 1875 to 1888. And … check this out: “Now Solomon began to build the temple at the house of the Lord at Jerusalem … at the place that David had prepared on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.” 2 Chronicles 3:1 The threshing floor (see 2 Chronicles 3:1) is KEY to identifying the temple location. Its connection to Zion―in the City of David―certifies to the evidence of the true temple location. Baruch haba b'Shem ADONAI Your friend, Prince Handley University of Excellence   OTHER RESOURCES: Location of the Jewish Temple ~ Part 1 Location of the Jewish Temple ~ Part 2 ___________________________ Rabbinical & Biblical Studies[Scroll down past English, Spanish and French] The Believer's Intelligentsia ___________________________

UNIVERSITY OF EXCELLENCE Prince HandleyPresident / Regent PRINCE HANDLEY PORTAL 1,000's of FREE ResourcesWWW.REALMIRACLES.ORG INTERNATIONAL Geopolitics | Intelligence | ProphecyWWW.UOFE.ORG LOCATION OF THE JEWISH TEMPLE ~ PART 3SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE 24/7 release of Prince Handley teachings, BLOGS and podcasts > STREAM Twitter: princehandley Subscribe FREE to Prince Handley Teaching & Newsletter ___________________________ DESCRIPTION: This is Part Three in a Series to develop a construct proving that the Jewish Temple was NOT on the traditional location (referred to as the Temple Mount), but was in the City of David. We will discuss the following: Scriptural evidence of where the Tabernacle and the Temple were located in the old City of David (at Mount Zion) in the area of Gihon Spring. ___________________________ LOCATION OF THE JEWISH TEMPLE ~ PART 3SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE The construction of the Third Jewish Temple could begin immediately IF the Jewish leaders ... and the Temple Institute ... understood that the First and Second Jewish Temples were NEVER located on the Dome of the Rock Complex; Haram al-Sharif. This is Part Three in a Series to develop a construct proving that the Jewish Temple was NOT on the traditional location (referred to as the Temple Mount), but was in the City of David. In this message we develop the construct that the First and Second Jewish Temples were located on the original Mount Zion in the old City of David in the area of Gihon Spring―NOT at what is commonly referred to as the Temple Mount area (Dome of the Rock … or … Haram al-Sharif). ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ NOTICE 138 UN Nations adopted a resolution that referred to Jerusalem's Temple Mount solely by its Muslim name of Haram al-Sharif … one of seven resolutions passed November 4, 2021, that single out or condemn Israel, with ZERO condemnations on the entire rest of the world (including China, North Korea, Iran and Russia). ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ THE TEMPLE AND MOUNT ZION BOTH CONNECT WITH THE OLD CITY OF DAVID According to Scripture the Temple has to be in the confines of the old City of David―NOT in the area commonly referred to as the Temple Mount, or Haram al-Sharif (muslim Dome of the Rock platform). “Nevertheless, David took the stronghold of Zion (that is, the City of David)” [2 Samuel 5:7] This shows that Zion is within the City of David. “Arise, O Lord, to your resting place, You and the ark of Your strength … For the Lord has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His dwelling place.” [Psalm 132:8,13] The “ark of Your strength” is the Ark of the Covenant. The Temple will house the Ark … and Zion is God's chosen place for that … as well as the Temple placement. “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord. To the house of the God of Jacob … For out of Zion shall go forth the Law ...” [Isaiah 2:3] “Mountain of the Lord” is the Temple at Zion. “Sing praises to the Lord, who dwells in Zion.” [Joel 3:21] The Lord dwells in the Temple at Zion. “Now Solomon began to build the house of the Lord at Jerusalem … at the place that David had prepared on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.” [2 Chronicles 3:1] The Temple will be built in the explicit confines of the City of David (which is the same boundary of the Jebusite city.) The stronghold of Zion―Metsudat Tsion―is located in the narrow perimeter of the 12 acre parcel of land known as the City of David. If Scrpture is our primary source there is NO other place the Temples can be located but within the geographic area of the stronghold of Zion. Professor Birch from England rediscovered the real Zion at the lower edge of the southeast ridge in the City of David during 1875 to 1888. And … check this out: “Now Solomon began to build the temple at the house of the Lord at Jerusalem … at the place that David had prepared on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.” 2 Chronicles 3:1 The threshing floor (see 2 Chronicles 3:1) is KEY to identifying the temple location. Its connection to Zion―in the City of David―certifies to the evidence of the true temple location. Baruch haba b'Shem ADONAI. Your friend, Prince Handley President / Regent University of Excellence Subscribe FREE to Prince Handley Teachings & Newsletter Prince Handley BLOG BIBLIOGRAPHY & SUGGESTED READINGS: The Temples that Jerusalem Forgot, Dr. Ernest L. Martin [Read FREE online] https://www.askelm.com/TempBook/index.asp The Jerusalem Temple Mount Myth, Marilyn Sams Response to Gihon Temple Objections, David Sielaff [Read FREE online] https://www.askelm.com/temple/t190201.pdf Temple, Dr. Bob Cornuke. Koinonia House Publishers Robert Mendlebaum, Bible Researcher and Eschatologist David Seilaff, Associates for Scriptural Knowledge, www.ASKELM.com [Search for “Temple”] _________________________ Rabbinical & Biblical Studies The Believers' Intelligentsia Prince Handley Portal(1,000's of FREE resources) Prince Handley Books OPPORTUNITY If you would like to partner with Prince Handley and help him do the Spirit exploits the LORD has assigned him, Click thIs secure DONATE or the one below. God will reward you abundantly on earth … and in Heaven! A TAX DEDUCTIBLE RECEIPT WILL BE SENT TO YOU __________________________

Are you finding it difficult to talk to anyone about the events happening in our nation and around the world? Do you feel like all the information you are getting from mainstream media is not accurate? Steve and David walk you through the events of January 6, 2021, how you can find fact-based information about current events, and so much more. Don't allow the created decisiveness to be what breaks us apart. Connect now with David and get the truthful information about what is happening in our nation. Are you ready to help heal our nation? If so don't miss out on this dynamic and informative show today. David Sumrall is a Christian, Carpenter, Small Business Owner, Activist, Citizen Journalist, documentary filmmaker of “Righting History,” founder of StopHate in 1992 and StopHate.com, co-founder of the American Celebration Tour, and Creator and Host of Discussion Island. How to connect with Steve and David: Not sure what to get Mom or Dad for Christmas this month? Get gifts for the person that's got everything and support the great patriot Mike Lindall at the same time. Use promo code TruthTalk at www.mypillow.com/truthtalk With all that's going on in the world today, are you prepared? If you couldn't go to the grocery store for a month or two, do you have the food storage you would need to take care of your family? My Patriot Supply is America's number one emergency preparedness company. Save big using Promo code TTWS at www.getpreparedwithsteve.com Connect with David: https://stophate.comhttps://stophatenews.comhttps://rumble.com/user/StopHate Connect with Steve: https://www.truthtalkwithsteve.com/tt-ws/ https://lifeafteraddictionandindictment.com https://facebook.com/stevecloward1

Glad You're Alive(TREXEL)When I first met you, you were a babyI looked at you and I thought maybeMaybe you're the one who’ll stay alivePerhaps you’ll be the one to surviveI’ve been hurt before, I know it’s trueBut perhaps it will be different with youLook at you so weak and stupidAnd we both know that the truth isWithout me you’d be dead alreadyRemember the trial you were like “Trexel help me”Bravely I stood and defended your honour If it were just you and Hartro, you'd be a gonerI’ve proved my worth ten times overA talent as rare as a forty-leaf cloverIt’s about time you admitted my valueAnd say it out loud, “Trexel Thank you!”You should really thank me for my kindness andMy protectionYour part of a very small selectionOf people with whom I’ve really triedI’d be sorry if you died, I'm glad you're alive(TREXEL + CHORUS)You are, still aliveYou are, still aliveYou are, still aliveYou are, still alive(DAVID) I first met you, I was a babyI looked at you and I thought maybeMaybe he’ll help me in this lifeProtect from dangers trouble and strifeI immediately discovered this wasn’t the caseYou're the most dangerous member of the human raceAn encyclopaedia of drunken liesThe worst example of ‘one of the guys’Without you things would be so much betterI remember the trial; it was like having a fetterYou wandered round yelling things almost at randomAnd the trail only happened because of your tantrum!You’ve proved your selfishness ten times overAn ego as large as a giant supernovaIt’s about time you admitted your foliesand say it out loud “David, I'm sorry!” (TREXEL)You should really thank me for my kindness andMy protection(DAVID: You weren't even listening were you? TREXEL: Yeah!)You’re one of the few with whom I've had a connection(DAVID: Not even slightly)I’d be sorry if you died, I'm glad you're alive (TREXEL + CHORUS) You are, still aliveYou are, still aliveYou are, still aliveYou are, still alive DAVID (Background During Final Chorus): So, I’m just gonna, So, I’m just gonna, I'm just gonna go, I’m just gonna’ go‘cause you're not even listening to me, you not, you neverlisten to me, you’re not listening now, you never will, I, Imight as well leave, just, just, I’m going, right, bye, bye forever,maybe, tomorrow probably, but bye, right now, just, I’m off! (TREXEL) For now Artists Dr. Beaver: Band Leader, Bass, Guitars, Additional Vocals JJ Perry: Keys, Production, Mixing and Mastering, Arrangement and Additional Music Ben Meredith: Vocals Tim Meredith: Music, Vocals and Lyrics Special thanks to Amy Dickinson for advice and support. “Glad You’re Alive” is from the album “Cabaret Night at the Cosmic Lounge”. © Rusty Quill 2020 If you would like to own the full album, consider becoming a Patron of Rusty Quill! All Patrons will receive a digipack, which includes dramatic sketches exclusive to the album and comes with special artwork by VeraRaeArt. Visit www.patreon.com/rustyquill to find out... See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

1 Samuel 17:38-53 – David and Goliath is one of the most popular stories in the Bible. So much so that it’s still used as a euphemism today. But let’s not be too fast to assume that we know what the story is teaching. There’s an amazing contrast between David and Goliath in their motives, attitudes, and actions. Goliath is in it for his own glory, but David is a man after God’s own heart. How do we become like David? Not by trying to be the hero and defeat our Goliaths, but instead by looking to another young Hero who would fight the greatest battle and conquer the greatest enemy. CLICK HERE to download the insert from this Sunday and go through it with your family and Community Groups.

FULL EPISODE EPISODE SUMMARY Conversation with Dr. Mardi Steere about Mission, Leadership, Emergency Medicine and Ebenezer Moments from her 8+ years at Kijabe Hospital. EPISODE NOTES David - So today, I'm talking with Mardi Steere. This is a conversation that I don't want to have. It's about leaving about memories, and about Kijabe.And I don't want to have it because I don't want you guys ever to leave. That is the hardest part of life in Kijabe. But amazing people come and amazing people go and you're gonna do amazing things and stay in touch. First, why don't you give the introduction you gave at the medical team the other day. Mardi - So this is bittersweet for me as well. We came to Kijabe in 2011 and planned to stay for two years and here we are eight and a half years later, taking our leave. And in some ways, it's inevitable. You can't stay in a place forever. It's been a real opportunity for me to reflect. David - Let me pause you real quick there. So when you first came, who is we? And then what did you come to do? Mardi - In 2011, I was a young pediatric emergency physician with an engineering husband looking for a place where we felt like God had said "To whom much is given, much is required," and we knew our next step was to go in somewhere with the gifts and the passions and the exposure and education that we've been given. And so I came as a Pediatrician, and the hospital hadn't had a long-term pediatrician in quite a while. Jennifer Myhre had just joined the team in 2010 and my husband Andy is a civil engineer and project manager, and now, theological educator as well.We moved here with our then two-year-old and four-year-old to do whatever seemed to be next. David - That's amazing. So give the theological introduction to the Ebenezer. Mardi - It comes from first Samuel Chapter 7 verse 7-12, where there's a battle between the Philistines and the Israelites and Samuel lays a stone to God for being faithful and to remember what God has done. When Andy and I got married in 1998, actually, it was a scripture that was read at our wedding. And we were encouraged when these Ebenezer moments come, take stock of them, step back, and acknowledge what God has done . Those moments will be key moments in your marriage. As I was talking to the medical division the other day, I felt like it was just another reminder that, as we have our professional lives and we work in a place like Kijabe and we serve, it's really easy to get caught up day-to-day in the daily struggles that we all have - with life and death and bureaucracy and not enough money and not enough equipment and team dynamics and conflict. But there are these moments when we take a step back and we see what God has done. This hospital has been around for 100 years, and I've only been here for a little over eight of them, but there are so many moments where I look back on where we've come from - and the journey that we've been on - and I see these landmark moments of God intervening. David - How do you see the balance here between medical excellence and spiritual - I don't know if excellence is the right word - between medical excellence and spiritual excellence. I think the origins of medicine were very intertwined with the spiritual, but at least in Western medicine, it's very divorced and I feel like in some ways, what I see happening here is not taught in classrooms anywhere else. Mardi - This is one of those things that I am going to be taking with me for the rest of my life. I don't know who's listening to this, but Americans have a cultural Christianity where it's acceptable in medicine, I think, to ask medical questions and maybe you ask a spiritual question and saying God bless you and bless her heart, and praying for people is somewhat accepted but still it's a parallel track to medicine. In Australia, it's completely divorced. There's almost a cultural fear of discussing the spiritual in Australia, a very agnostic country. So to be a Christian in Australia, you have to make a choice. But then when you go to medical school, it's taught to you almost don't bring that in. This is a science, and one of the things that I love about Kijabe is that they are inextricably intertwined. There isn't a meeting that we start here without prayer. When I'm covering pediatrics, as a clinician, we start with team prayer and depending how busy things are, if you're trying to see 30 patients on rounds, you might pray for the room, as you start. We ask the parents how they're doing, and then we pray for the mom with her permission, and for the baby or the dad or whichever caregiver is there. We ask God to intervene, we ask God to give us wisdom, we ask him to be a part of the science. We ask him to be a part of the conversations. When it comes to the even bigger picture, when it comes to strategically planning the hospital, and our core values again - they're inextricably intertwined, and it's a gift. One thing that I'm gonna take with me as a leader and as a clinician, is that it is not difficult to ask anyone, "What is your world view and what is your spiritual worldview? Because all of us have one in Australia. That world view might be... "I don't believe there's a spiritual realm." That's so important to know. But what if the answer to that question is," I believe in God, but I don't see him doing anything." What an opportunity we miss. What if we have immigrants in our population in our community, and we don't ask them "What is your spiritual and cultural world view? What do you think is happening beneath the surface?" and we don't give someone an opportunity to say without derision, "I think I've been cursed" or "There is a generational problem in my family," and we don't open up the opportunity to intervene in a way that's holistic, much we miss by not intertwining the spiritual and the physical? The fact is every one of our communities has a spiritual world view, and shame on us if we don't explore it with them. David - Amen. It's fascinating here because before coming here, I thought of missions as giving. The longer I'm here, the more I think of it as receiving. When you stop and pray for a family, the encouragement received from those family members is huge. The trust and the love, and you do see people who come in the halls and you ask, "Why are you here?" "Because my doctor will pray for me." Mardi - So what's interesting to me is there are some conversations going on in medicine around the world right now about this "innovative new concept of Compassionomics." And really it's exactly what you're saying, it's not new and it's not innovative. I think that Compassionomics is our fearful way of re-exploring the spiritual. It's taking the time on rounds to say, "How are you doing as a family, how are we doing as a team," and to take the opportunity to draw comfort from each other. It comes from a spiritual foundation, that I think that we've lost, and I think a lot of it comes from burnout and from the way that medicine has become a business and a commodity. We're starting to re-explore through Compassionomics, and I pray through exploring the spiritual, the deeper side of medicine that around the world I think people really miss. David - Right on. Mardi - And if that's not reverse innovation, I don't know what is. David - It's fascinating, this space that Kijabe fills and how we think about it and how we talk about it. I use a phrase - World class healthcare in the developing world - but when I use that, I don't mean that I want Kijabe to be the big hospital in the big city in the West, because there are certain aspects that we don't want to lose. Yes, absolutely, it would be super-cool to be doing robotic surgery, and some of these wild technological things, but really I feel like what Kijabe excels at is not fancy and not glamorous. It fundamentals of medicine. I remember Evelyn Mbugua telling me this one time. I asked her, "What do you think about medicine in general?" "When I have a challenge or when I'm stuck on a patient, I go back to their history." It's fascinating that that's fascinating! Some of the basic fundamentals of medicine are practiced here, just looking at your patient and laying your hands on them and touching them and talking to them. A conversation is both a diagnostic tool and it's actually medicine. If the numbers are true, I know it's different from orthopedic surgery than for outpatient, but, if half of medicine is actually placebo, this stuff is really important to healing. And it's not anti-science. It actually is science to care about people. Mardi - It's interesting when you mentioned the placebo effect. I think that the placebo effect is considered as nothing, but it's not the placebo effect, is actually a real effect. It's that time and conversation and compassion, truly do bring healing and the point of a control trial is to see in a drug-do better than that. But the thing we're doing, already makes sense. It's interesting to me that medicine around the world is getting faster and faster and more and more advanced. Time is money. I think that around the world, we wanna save money in medicine, we wanna do more with what we have, but we're willing to sacrifice time, to make that happen. And why is that the first thing that goes? Burned-out physicians in high income countries, the thing that they love, is when they have to see more and more patients in less and less time because they know what they have to offer is beyond a drug, and beyond a diagnosis and beyond a referral and beyond a surgery. The one of my favorite phrases in medicine that I truly don't understand but want to spend the rest of my life working on it, is a "value-based care." I think to define value you have to define what we're offering. If value is time, then one of the things I think that Kijabe and mission hospitals can continue to pioneer the way in is, "how do we cut costs in other areas but refuse to sacrifice the cost of time and make sure that our impact is helpful for our patients but that also helps our team members and our clinicians receive the value that comes from being a part of a meaningful conversation. I think that's what patients want too. They don't want the robotics, they come to us because they're helpless vulnerable and afraid, and those are the things that we're treating. They trust what we tell them and if we don't have the time to build up that trust, we've lost a lot of the value that we offer. David - What have you seen change about team? You guys have been part of this big culture change process, but I think it's something that's started long before long before either of us. What do you see is the arc of Kijabe and the archive teamwork and the arc of culture? Mardi - So, Kenya is an incredibly multicultural and diverse country and Nairobi is high-powered and it's fast and it's a lot of white-collar and highly educated people and Kijabe is not so far from that. I think we operate more in a Nairobi mindset than a rural, small town mindset, but that's actually been a huge transition, I think, is going from presenting ourselves as a rural distant place to a part of a busy growing rapidly advancing system, and so that comes with leadership styles that become more open and more I guess, more modern in style. And so that's been the first big thing that I've just seen a huge jar over the part of the decade that I have been here is that leadership is no longer just top-down, enforced. It's participational leadership and I'm a massive fan of that. Leaders do have to make hard decisions and make things happen, but the input of the team has become a much, much higher priority in the last decade. And that's huge because our young highly-educated, highly-aspirational team members have got some great ideas and shame on us as leaders, if we don't take the time to listen to their approach to things. So that inclusive style of leadership has has been a huge arc. And then I think the other thing is just our changing generations, millennials are not confined to high-income countries. We have a young generation of people here who aren't gonna stay in the same job for 40 years like their parents or their grandparents did, and that's the same globally. And so we've had to question, over the last decade, how do you approach team members who are only gonna be here for a little while? Do you see that is, they're just gonna go, or do you get the maximum investment into them and benefit out of them in the time that they're gonna be here and then release them with your blessing? And so that's been something that's been huge for me is when we've got these new graduate nurses or lab staff radiographers, to not be on the fact that three years after they come to us, they go it's to say, "You know what, we've got these guys for three years, let's sow into them, let's get the most we can out of their recent education... Let's do what we can to up skill them with the people that we've got here and then let's release them all over Kenya to be great resources for health care across the country and across the region. David - I would say, for healthcare and for the gospel. I've been wrestling a lot with what does it mean for Kijabe is to be a mission hospital. I think the classic definition - I don't know if we define it as such, I don't often hear people say it out loud, but I think it's an unwritten thing - that what makes a Mission hospital a Mission Hospital, is that it cares for the poor. Hopefully on some level, or on a lot of levels, that will always be true at Kijabe. But I'm really excited about the possibility of what you just described, that if these guys are here for three or four years and we are to training them with the attitude that they are going out as Christian leaders and as missionaries to these parts of Kenya that honestly, you and I will never touch. And a lot of the places I've never even heard of. But if we're equipping them to be the light that's the huge opportunity that Kijabe has to be missional. Mardi - This is a much, much longer podcast, but defining mission is really really important, isn't it? I think that there's a couple of things that stick out to me as you're talking and one is that, I think mission has a history that can be associated with colonialism. And one thing I love about my time in Kenya is seeing that we are a globe of missionaries. The church that we attended in Nairobi, Mamlaka Hill Chapel, these guys would send mission teams to New Zealand, which is fabulous. It's not that lower middle income countries are receiving missionaries anymore. All of us need the gospel, all of us need the full word of Jesus and when you're spreading the gospel, what are you spreading? I think that this is a much longer conversation, but I believe that we are called to go and make disciples we are called to serve the sick, we are called to serve the poor, we are called to serve those in prison. I focus on the parable of the sheep and the goats, it is one of my life scriptures, "when you are poor and sick and needy whatever you did for the least of these, you did for me." And what I hope for Kijabe does is that for whoever passes through our doors, whether it be patient, whether it be staff member, this is who we are, we love Jesus and we want you to know this incredible King who gave so much for us and who has an eternal life for us that starts now. And eternal life starting now means making an impact and restoring that which is broken, and it means restoring it now, wherever you are. As our team members go out to work in other hospitals, I would hope that one of the indicators of success for us would be a lack of brain drain, because it would show that we've shown people, "You know what there are people here that need you in healthcare. And this is why I'm here." If I had wanted to be an evangelist rather than a health care missionary, I should have stayed in Australia, for less people in Australia know Jesus that in Kenya. But I felt like my call in mission was to serve the sick in a place where I could help other people do the same. That's been my passion here, but I'm called to go back to Australia now. Does that mean my mission life is over? Absolutely not. It means that I'm going back to Australia to love Jesus and serve sick there and to do it in a different way. And I think that understanding that all of us, whoever is listening to this podcast right now, wherever you you have a call to mission, it's that sphere of influence that God's put you in. It's to take care of the poor or the sick, or to love the wealthy, who are lost around you that are never gonna step foot in a church but need a love of Jesus every bit as much as one of our nursing students here in the college. David - Amen again, that's fantastic. So back to Ebenezers, back to the the stones. What are things come to mind as you look back over on your time at Kijabe that were hallmarks or turning points? Mardi - There's a few of them. One evening sticks out to me because it's so indicative of the bigger picture and what we've been working towards. I'd been here for about nine months or so. . . One of the things that Jennifer Myhre and I noticed is we started out on pediatrics was that our nursing staff were incredibly passionate about their kids, but no one had really had the time to teach them about sick kids and how to resuscitate them, just basic life support, because they were so overwhelmed. You know, there was one nurse who was taking care of 12-15 patients at a time. That ratio is now one to eight, so it's much easier. But they just hadn't had the opportunity to learn some of the basic life-saving assessment in resuscitation skills, and so we started doing just weekly mock resuscitations with the nurses and as we got to know each other and they got to trust me and to know that I wasn't there to, to judge them, but to try and help them, we would do mock recesses every week, and people would stop being scared of coming and would come with by interested and actually came to test their knowledge. When I started in 2011, about once a week I would get called in, in the middle of the night to find a baby blue and not breathing, who was dead, and there was nothing that I could do. But what we worked together on was setting up a resuscitation room, and setting up the right equipment. And so after about nine months of this, I was called in for yet another resuscitation in the middle of the night, and by the time I got there, the baby was just screaming and pink, and I asked the nurse is what had happened and it was the same story as always, this baby choked on milk, they had turned on the oxygen given the baby oxygen done some CPR and they resuscitated that baby before I got there, they didn't need me at all. And the Ebenezer for me was the was the pride on their faces. "We are experts at this and we know what we're doing." That has just escalated leaps and bounds. Now we've got outstanding nursing leadership and they're being equipped and taught and up-skilled every day. But that was an Ebenezer moment for me that the time taken to build relationship and team and invest doesn't just bring a resuscitated baby and life is important, but it builds team and it builds ownership and pride in "this is what I've been called to do, and I'm good at it." It's interesting because it's what you would do is individual doctors with your teams and doing the mock code. But it's also very much a systems process for Kijabe hospital, right? A big part of solving that challenge was getting the right nursing ratios, but also setting up high dependency units to where children you're concerned about could be escalated. Did that happened during your time here? Mardi - So when we started here in 2011, children weren't really admitted to the ICU at all unless they were surgical patients who just had an operation, and then the surgeons would take care of them and transfer them down to the ward. So the pediatrics team wasn't really involved in any ICU care, extremely rarely. We didn't have a high dependency unit. And our definition of high dependency unit, here, is a baby that can be monitored on a machine 24-7. This is something that shows you how reliant we are on partnerships, David. So for example, the nursing and the medical team together decided, "Look, we think we need a three-bed unit, where at least the babies who were the more sick ones can be monitored on machines." And so, Bethany kids were the ones who equipped... We turned one of our words into a three-bed HDU in the old Bethany kids wing, and that was the first time we could put some higher risk babies on monitoring so that if they deteriorated we knew about it sooner. And we saw deaths start to drop, just with that simple thing. The other thing was that pediatricians who worked here in the past weren't necessarily equipped in how to do... ICU care. And so Jennifer and I said, "Well I'm a Peds-emergency physician, and she is an expert in resource-poor medicine, between the two of us, we can probably figure this out." We started putting some babies in ICU who we knew had a condition that would be reversible if we could just hook them up for 24 hours to ventilator. So we started ventilating babies with just pneumonia or bronchiolitis. Or sepsis, that was the other big one, something that if you can help their heart beats more strongly for a day or two, you can turn the tide. And so we just started working with the ICU team to say, "Look, can we choose some babies to start bringing up here? And four years later we were overtaking the ICU at the time and that's why we had to build a new Pediatric ICU, which opened in 2016. All of these things are incremental, and we stand on the shoulders of giants. The Paeds ward existed because a surgeon said "I don't want babies with hydrocephalus and spina bifida to not get care." And then we came along and said "We think that's great, but we think that babies with hydrocephalus spina bifida, who also have kidney problems and malnutrition, should probably have a pediatrician care for them." And over time, that degree of care, that we've been able to offer has just grown and grown. And we had Dr. Sara Muma as a pediatrician join us in 2012 then Dr. Ima Barasa - she was sponsored into pediatric residency long before I got here. That was the foresight of the medical director back then, to say "We are gonna need some better pediatric care". And then I stepped into the medical director role and people like Ima and Ariana came along and they've just pushed it further and further and further. None of us are satisfied with what we walk into, and we keep saying we can do better because these kids deserve more. David - That's fantastic, I think that's another way when you think about the influence and the impact of Kijabe, it's that refusing to settle. It's to say, "Yeah this is possible. Let's figure it out." And for all the team members to say that and commit to it, and for the leadership to support that I think that's what makes Kijabe special. I read something that the other day, it was just an interesting take, someone said [to a visiting doctor] "Why are you going to that place? It has so much." But Kijabe only has “so much” because the immense sacrifice of so many people over so much time. None of this showed up without the hours and the donations and years and years and years of work. I remember you saying that about Patrick with his ophthalmology laser? How did you phrase that? Mardi - Patrick, he's such a wonderful example of the kind of person that doesn't look for reward, but sees a need and just walks to the finish line. He started out, I believe, on the housekeeping team in the hospital. He's been here for 20 years at least, I think, and then went through clinical office or training, which is a physician assistant level training, and then received higher training in cataract surgery. He started our ophthalmology service in 2012. Since then he had nurses trained around him. He's been doing cataract surgery, and then he said, "We've got these diabetic patients and the care we offer isn't good enough, we need a laser." He went to Tanzania, and got laser training, and now he's going to start doing laser surgery on patients with diabetic retinopathy. He refuses to be satisfied with the status quo. And that's the heritage that we have here. You know, talking about even a moment I feel them enormously privileged to have been here in 2015 as we as a hospital celebrated our centennial. It took us a year to prepare for that, and I know you were a part of that process, David. David's job was find all of the stories and all of the photos and interview all of the people and make sure to document everything that might be lost if we lose these stories now. Being a part of that process... I was in tears so many times when we would hear one more story about somebody's commitment and sacrifice. We've been able to write down that story from 2015, with the Theodora Hospital as we were known then. The stories of not just these missionaries but these extraordinary early nurses, like Wairegi and Salome who worked here for decades, who were initially trained informally, because we didn't even have accreditation for the nursing program. David - We didn't even exist as a country. Mardi - That's a really good point! To hear those stories and to see our very first lab technician was just amazing. And then when these 80 and 90-year-olds came over and saw the scope of the hospital as it exists now, it just gave me a glimpse into whatever we do today, we have no concept of 100 years from now, the fruit that that will bear. And I think a missional life, is like that, isn't it? It's being okay with not seeing fruit. There's foundations positive and negative, that all of us lay in the interactions and the work that we do and I think all of us, our prayer is that those seeds that we plant would bear fruit. We have to be okay with not seeing the fruit with saying this has been my contribution. I've stood on the shoulders of giants and now I hand over the baton to you, who will come after me. Make of it what you will. It's not my dream and it's not my goal, I've done my part, and let's see where God takes it through you. David - And so, very shortly, you're about to become a giant. [laughter] I really appreciate you, I appreciate you bringing that up. That was one of the most important things that could have ever happened. It was in the 2015. It was before we started Friends of Kijabe. The realization for me I always come back to how long life is. It's both amazingly short and amazingly long. Watching Dr. Barnett and realizing that he worked here for 30 years, and then went back to the states, so now he's... I think he just hit 102 years old. It really does bring in a clear view what is legacy, what does it mean and what are we building? But also that this is very much outside of us. We get to pour everything we have into it for a time, but then others will take up that work. And it's both humbling, and amazing and... Mardi - And I think it's helpful to as many of us have a sense of calling on our lives, I think that this is what God has for me now. But we have to hold that with open hands because our view and our understanding of what God is doing is so small and what he is doing is so large. I think sometimes in this kind of setting, you come in with a dream and a passion and a goal, but you see that path shift and change during the time that you're here and that is good and that is okay. I think a danger is when we come in and think that we have the answers or we know exactly where God is going, and then things don't work out, and we burn out or are bitter or disappointed. To come into a sense of mission and calling... Saying "not my will but yours be done," and to just obey in the day-to-day and to see where it goes and to be okay with the direction being different at the end than it was at the beginning - I think that's how we lead a life led by the Spirit. We hold these things with open hands and say, "God take it where you will" and if it's a different place, let me just play my part in that. David - Okay, I gotta dig into that cause. How do you balance that? I would frame it as vision. I feel like a good example to look at, I don't know if it's the right one, so, you can choose a different one if you want to, but the balance between vision and practicality and reality. Because you say that, and you are walking in the day-to-day, but I just think of the Organogram that has been on your wall, which was on Rich's, wall, which is now your's again, which is about to be Evelyn's wall. And you had this vision back in, "this is how I think the organization should work to function well." But there's a four-year process in making that come to pass. How do the day-to-day and the long-term balance? Mardi - I think we're talking about spiritual and practical things combined aren't we? I think that anyone who's in organizational leadership knows that you, your organization as a whole needs a trajectory and a long-term plan. We make these five-year strategic plans which are based on the assumptions of today and every strategic plan. You need to go back every couple of years and say, Were those assumptions right? And just to be a super business nerd for a minute, you base things on SWOT analyses and you base things on the current politics and economics. David - What does SWOT stand for? Mardi - Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats. Then you do a PESTLE analysis, you look at the politics, you look at the economy, you look at the social environment of the day, etcetera etcetera. In technology everything is changing quicker than we can keep up with. And so I think that when you're looking at a place like a happy, which is large and complex, you set yourself some goals, and you work with them, but, you know, so something's going to change. Politics are gonna change, the economy's gonna tank, maybe there's gonna be a war on the other side of the world and we’re the only source of this, that, or the other?Maybe India falls into the sea and we start doing all of the surgeries that India was doing? I just don't even know. One thing for me, I've been enormously privileged to have been the medical director for two different terms that were separated by two years. And so I think I have a slightly unique perspective because from 2013 to 2016, I set the way I thought that our division would work and I came back into the role, two years later and already it had changed, but Rich had made it a better. It's funny, I when I came into the role, my predecessor. Steve Letchford said, "Look, you're gonna need a deputy, you can't do this by yourself." And I looked at my team and said "Um, No, I need four deputies, four sub-divisional heads because this is too much for one or two people and I can't keep my ear to the ground without it. I came back after two years away and there were five deputies and my initial gut reaction was, "You changed my structure!" And then I realized that Rich and Ken had made a really wise call. It did have to be five deputies for lots of really good reasons and that team of five has been my absolute rock this year. David - Who is the team of five? So the team of five, I've got a head of inpatient medicine and pediatrics, and specialties and this George Otieno. There's a head of Outpatient Department, and Community Health and Satellite clinics, and that's Miriam Miima. I've got ahead of Surgery and Anesthesia, and that's Jack Barasa. There's a head of Pharmacy, and that's Elizabeth Irungu. Then there's a head of what we call Allied and Diagnostic that incorporates the Lab and Pathology, Radiology, Physiotherapy, Nutrition and Audiology, and the head of that, it is Jeffrey Mashiya who is a radiographer. What's amazing to me about that is when I instituted this framework in 2014, there were four people and they were all missionaries. And I've come back in 2018 and there are five people and they're all our Kenyan senior staff and they're extraordinarily talented and any one of them can stand in for the medical director, when the medical director is away. What a gift that has been. David - I can't imagine how important this is for continuity. Because you think right now, you're handing off your responsibilities to Evelyn, but she has five people that...those are the executors and they actually get to groom her in leadership. That's amazing and for the strength of Kijabe and the stability, it's indispensable. I don't think there's another way to build a strong, stable system other than to build that. Mardi - Yeah, that's actually one of the things that brings me so much joy as I leave is the team isn't going to notice too much the change in senior leadership because that level of day-to-day practical strategic and operational leadership is just so strong. I think it made Ken as my CEO, I think it made his job easier to say, "Look, who should fill the position that Mardi is vacating?" He was able to say, "Who's got institutional memory and who's got leadership expertise and wisdom, and who knows how the senior leadership team works?" Whoever that person is, they're gonna have a team around them that will mean that no voices get lost in the transition. When I took the job in 2013, hearing the voices of specifically missionaries and surgeons can be really noisy and you hear their voices, but who's listening to the head of palliative care and who's listening to the head of laboratory who's listening to the head of nutrition, which is a tiny team of four people, those voices are well represented by wise people who all listen to each other and make the system work around them. It's a tremendous gift and there's no way to do this job without a team of people like that around you. And you know what, that's one of my other Ebenezers, David. Thursday, we installed Evelyn as the incoming medical director. Seeing those five sub-divisional heads praying for Evelyn and as that took off, I will never forget that. David - Absolutely. I wasn't here the first time, but I remember I should print out a series of those [pictures] because I remember you handing the hat to Rich and I remember it going back to you and then watching you give Evelyn the hat and stethoscope. There's this legacy of people that care. It's interesting to think about... 'cause you are, I mean you’re building this remarkable team and your system and things that operate independently of you. But at the same time, you're unbelievably special, and have given a ton over the past years and you. As Rich phrased it, you walked in shoes that not many other people will get to walk in. It's special. I imagine is what it's like when the former presidents get together for their picture. There's things that only only you guys will know and only you guys will have experienced. Mardi - You know, one thing that is really special is I think a lot of leadership transitions come through pain, brutality and war. And one thing that I noticed on Thursday, is that in the room as I handed over leadership to evil and were Steve Letchford and Peter Bird, who have both been here for decades and who've previously been the medical directors. I think there's a beauty about the transition of leadership here in the clinical division that it hasn't come through attrition, war and burnout. I'm leaving with a lot of sadness, and I'm not cutting ties with this place to see. . . there has been a cost. Rich. I know, I would still love to be here in this position as the person who is my predecessor…but to see such strength of leadership that is here and sowing into the next generation rather than leaving when they died. They've stepped down and gone into leading other areas to ensure that the team that follows them is strong, I think that's a tremendous gift and something unique about Kijabe. People love this place and they love this team and they wanna be a part of its ongoing success in its broader mission. David - And they love and they love that above their own glory and their own desires. I think it's what makes an organization great, it’s what makes a country great. I think it's probably gonna be easier in a place of faith, honestly, that this is God's ministry, not our own, not any one persons's. FPECC What is FPECC? I think it's important for people to know a little bit about how hard is it to create a training program or anything new in Kenya? Mardi - So FPECC is the fellowship program in pediatric emergency and critical care. Ariana [Shirk] and I are pediatric emergency physicians, we trained in pediatrics, and then we did specially training in how to take care of emergencies and resuscitation. And were the only two formally trained pediatric emergency doctors in Kenya. Critical Care is taking care of kids in ICUs and currently in the country, there are four pediatric ICU doctors for 55 million people. I don't have the stats that my finger tips, but it's extraordinarily low. I think of the city where you live and how many ICU beds there are, and how many children's hospitals you have just in your own city if you're based in a high income country. For 55 million people, there's kids just can’t access that care. David - Recently, I'm sure it's gone up, but two years ago, it was 100 beds for the country. Mardi - For adults and kids. . . In the country, there are a 12 pediatric ICU beds. Actually no, that's not true, there are 16 and eight of them came into existence, when we opened up our Peds ICU here three years ago. David - And keep in mind, this is East Africa, of the 56 million people. . .33 million of those are under age 18. So 16 beds. Mardi - That's right. Think of anything that can cause a critical illness. Trauma, illness, cancer, you name it, that's not enough beds. So when I came to Kenyo, I had no dream of starting a training program that wasn't even remotely on my radar. But sometimes things just come together at the right time. It was actually University of Nairobi, where they have the only other Peds ICU, they had been working with University of Washington in Seattle to say, “Look, can you help us start some training?” This is really important, because in East Africa there is nowhere that a pediatrician can learn how to run an ICU. Think of the US, where every state has got multiple training programs, where pediatricians will spend three years to learn to be an ICU doctor. There is nowhere for 360 million people in this region to learn how to do ICU care for children. Just think about that for a second. 360 million people... No training program. There's one in Cairo, and there's one in Cape Town, but that's for 600 million people. So I'm just taking a few of them where there's nowhere to go. University of Nairobi was talking to Seattle. They've got two Peds ICU doctors in Nairobi and they were thinking of starting a program. Then just through several contacts, actually through the Christian mission network, one of University of Washington's ICU doctors grew up in Nigeria but she's involved with the Christian Medical and Dental Association, and so she knew about Kijabe. The University of Washington team came out to Kenya for a visit, and they said, "Hey we heard you doing some ICU care caring Kijabe. Can we come out and see what's happening?" That was in 2013. They came out and said "Hey what are you guys doing here?" And we showed them around, and their minds were blown, they didn't know there was any peds ICU happening outside of Nairobi at all. And so, we rapidly started some conversations and said "Look, why don't we start a training program in Pediatric Emergency Care and Critical Care and our trainees can train at both Kijabe hospital and Kenyatta hospital in Nairobi and they can get an exposure to two different types of ICUs. They can also take advantage of the fact that Ariana and I are here as Peds Emergency faculty, and we can split the training load. Training programs in the US have dozens of faculty for something like this, to rely on just two doctors in Nairobi was an incredible risk even though University of Washington is supporting with visiting faculty. So we said, "Look, we've got all these people in the country at the same time, let's just try and do it." So we started that process in 2013. We took our first fellows at the beginning of this year. It's taken us six years. That's how things work here. You've got to form relationships. University of Nairobi didn't know us real well when it came to our pediatric care. We had to get to know each other, we had to develop a curriculum. We had to let the Ministry of Health know. We had to get the Kenya pediatrics Association on side. The Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board, had to approve the program. The University Senate had to approve the program. We had to try and get some funding in place. None of that happens quickly. It's all relationship that's all a lot of chai. That's all a lot of back and forth and making sure that you don't try and skip anything to get through the hoops, any quicker than you need to, because if you try to go to quick it falls apart. And if University of Nairobi and Kenya doesn't own this program, it's not gonna last. And I think that's probably the first thing to take away for me is this program exists because University of Nairobi and Kenya wanted it I didn't come in here and say, "We need this.” University of Nairobi wanted it, and we said, "How can we support it?" And so Arianna showing up here for a short-term visit - which we rapidly recruited you guys as long-term - it was God's timing because Ariana and I couldn't have done this independently from each other. It's taken both of us to build those relationships over the last six years. Arianna and I are so proud of this program. Our first two graduates will finish this training at end of December 2020, and we hope and pray that we can recruit them to stay at Kijabe and University of Nairobi as our first home-grown faculty. What's been lovely about that, too, is that we've connected with people all over the world who want to support this kind of thing, they just didn't know how. David - Not did they not know how, there wasn’t a way. It literally did not exist until February 2019. Mardi - So now, we're actually talking to colleagues in Uganda and Tanzania, and colleagues in Sudan and other places about... “Hey, is this a good model for you?” I've got some contacts in Nigeria, they've got how many million people, 30 million people or something ridiculous? And there's no way to get this training there either. And people all over the world want to be able to support what a country wants to start in its own strategy. So that's something that I'm just thrilled to be leaving. Even as we leave next month, I'm hoping and planning to come back at least once a year to teach in the program for the forseeable future and to support Arianna from a distance in continuing to connect people all over the world to say, "Here's a way that your global health desires can interface with a local country's needs." David - You two are the only Peds Emergency Medicine doctors in the country and there's a realization. . .What actually is Emergency Medicine here and what is the difference between what it looks like here versus America? Mardi - Yeah, it's a really great question. First of all, Ariana and I trained in a country where there are multiple children's hospitals per city. So, Pediatric Emergency Medicine is the Emergency Department attached to a children's hospital. There are less than 10 children's hospitals on this entire continent, I think. So there are no Pediatric Emergency departments. What is really great is that Emergency Medicine combined adult and pediatric is a growing specialty here. There's been so much great work that's going on in so many countries around the region. Rwanda last year, just graduated their first class of emergency residents. Uganda just on the cusp, the great advocate there, Annette Allenyo is leading the charge for emergency medicine. Ben Wachira is an Emergency Medicine trained doctor here at Agha University, and they're on the cusp of starting an emergency medicine residency training program. You know Emergency Medicine's a funny thing. Emergency medicine in a high-income country, is a part of a functioning system. Emergency medicine in the US means that you've got ambulances that get your people to you and you've got an ICU at the other end that you send sick people to. Emergency medicine here is. . . people showing up on our door step, we don't know how to get them here and then where do we send them? I think that Emergency Medicine training here is so much more broad. We're training people not only how to provide Emergency Medicine, but how to be advocates in a broader system. And I think if you live in a high income country, you can't understand how much medical training is not about medical training. It's about advocacy and building access to care for people, no matter where they're at. What I see emerging here is…from the start, it's collaborative. Emergency Medicine training here isn't just training a doctor in a specialty to give you a certificate and leave you there. It's connecting you with people who are trying to get paramedic systems going and people trying to build ICU care. That's one of the reasons we realized that our Pediatric Emergency and Critical Care program had to be both. There's not enough places to work where you've got the luxury of staying in the ICU. Our graduates are gonna go out and work in hospitals where they will be expert trainers for the pediatricians running the ICU and the family medicine doctors running the emergency department and the surgeons who are doing pediatric surgery with just general training. Our graduates are gonna be those advocates drawing teams together asking "How can we improve the system from arrival at our doorstep till the day we send them home." It's a different focus in our training. Yes, the skills are necessary. You need to know how to run a ventilator and keep a heart pumping when it's not. But it's about building a team and being a part of solving systems issues and hopefully in a way that is affordable and sustainable. David - I love that word, systems. For me, this is the year of systems. Thinking broadly about each of these individual parts because it’s another way that healthcare here is very different from healthcare in the US. The US is just sub-specialization, that's what it's all about. And here, there's not a fine line between. . .for an Emergency Medicine doctor, you're not sitting out in casualty waiting for a kid to come in, right? If you want to find the emergency, you just walk around and lay eyes on every kid and there's gonna be one out of 70 children in that building, who is in trouble. So it really is a bigger and broader way of thinking about things. Mardi - I think another thing that's interesting to me just as we come back to the missional aspect of who we are... I think 00 years ago, a missionary was someone who would go into deepest, darkest wherever and be whoever they wanted to be. I think as we consider what is global mission, our question needs to be, “What is that country looking for, what systems are they trying to develop and how do we help them in it?" And that comes down to health…if you're a missionary, what does the local church want to do? What is their mission and how can we assist them? I think we need to ask better, what system is someone trying to build and how can we be a part of it. Because that's the key, isn't it? We're here to serve God who is restoring creation and he's doing it in lots of different ways already. We don't need to necessarily think we've got the answer, but to say "God, where are you working and how can I be a part of it, and what does it look like?" I think Mary Adam in her community health project, is a really lovely example of that. Community Health growth is a priority of Kenya. So she's gotten grant funding and she is just sowing in it, she knows every county Governor in the country, I'm suspecting. She knows how to get into the system, but how to be salt and light, and how to be the love of Jesus in making things functional and making all things new. I think that's one thing that I think Kijabe is doing well. We are looking at health strategy and saying How can we be a part of it and love that our FPECC program is in partnership with University of Nairobi. I love that our clinical offices have a program that we got accredited for called the Emergency Critical Care Clinical Officer program, that actually wasn't a part of hell strategy, but we did see a gap, and as soon as we trained people in that we went to the Clinical Officer of Council and said, "Hey you want to accredit this? This is a really good program. And they did, and now the Kenya Medical training training college has taken that program and they're doing their own program. I think those are lovely examples of saying “We're here to bring restoration but we don't want to be separate from the system. Where are you going and how can we help” David - What does that mean for friends of Kijabe? How do you see that working with Friends of Kijabe as an organization? Mardi - What's been really lovely, about Friends of Kijabe in the last year, and I know you're excited about this, David, is in what the core the Friends of Kijabe vision and mission. I think a core part of Friends of Kijabe that we've got the CEO, the CFO and the Director of Clinical Services on the Friends of Kijabe board. One question that I've heard you ask so many times in the last year is "Where are you going and how can we help, what are your priorities? Friends of Kijabe exists to help the hospital further its strategy, but also exists as a bit of a connector between people in high-income countries who really want to contribute and who have passions. Where does that intersect with the hospital strategy? So Friends of Kijabe is not going to take the whole hospital strategy and try and piecemeal help every part of it. They're gonna say, "Hey you're a part of your strategy that are happy resonates with and that's become very clear. A lot of Friends of Kijabe funding currently goes towards whatever the hospital thinks is important. The hospital has prioritized the theater expansion project this year and that's great. But, at its core, Friends of Kijabe also says, "We support the needy. We support education. We support sustainability. How can we get there?" And so [FoK] has prioritized putting money towards each of those areas which happened to align with the core values of Kijabe Hospital. So a large proportion of what Friends of Kijabe hospital is doing this year is helping us with an infrastructure project. But every year we're going re-ask "What are your priorities, and how can we help that?" But we're also going to say, "Here is where our heart beats. Can we help with this too?" I think one of the things about Friends of Kijabe is the trust that's developed since its inception. As Friends of Kijabe, we trust that the hospital leadership is following a strategy that is meaningful, that is sustainable, and that is in line with where Kenya is going and where the African Inland Church is going because that's who we're owned and operated by. As long as our missions intersect, I think Friends of Kijabe can trust that at the hospital is taking us in a good direction. David - Awesome, anything else I should ask you? Anything you'd like to add? Mardi - No. It's been an extraordinary eight years and it's been such a privilege to be here, and it's lovely to leave with joy, even as there's associated sadness. I really can't wait to see what the next few decades bring, and I'm gonna be watching both from a distance and also up close, when I come back to visit. David - Thank you Mardi.

The story of David preparing to fight Goliath is full of truths that apply to us as well. Listen as Barbie Loflin shares why it was critical that David NOT fight in Saul's armor as well as insight into how God prepares us for battle.

The story of David preparing to fight Goliath is full of truths that apply to us as well. Listen as Barbie Loflin shares why it was critical that David NOT fight in Saul's armor as well as insight into how God prepares us for battle.

Blair asks David to make some predictions about the new year, and then they discuss some ways that businesses can prepare for and react to (God forbid) an economic downturn.   TRANSCRIPT BLAIR ENNS: David, predict the future. Coming year, the year ahead ... It doesn't matter when people are listening to this or when we've recorded it, but in the year ahead is it going to be a year of abundance or is it batten the hatches, we've got trouble? DAVID C. BAKER: I think it'll probably be right in the middle. I think it'll be- BLAIR: Oh, come on. Make a guess. DAVID: Oh, no but that is a real prediction. BLAIR: Don't you love driving through these small towns and rural parts of whatever country and you see these fortune tellers that read the cards or whatever? And they're all in these shitty little offices. I'm just wondering, how does that work? DAVID: How come they're not in palaces? BLAIR: Yeah. Right. Or the 49th floor of some high rise condominium. DAVID: You talk with your clients, a lot of them every week, and I do as well, it'd be interesting to see what you're feeling right now. What they're feeling right now. My sense is that there's quite a bit of uncertainty, like the stock market wasn't great through last year, and unemployment is still low, and there's some political uncertainty. The world feels a little bit fragile. But really that's kind of in our heads. DAVID: The actual business results have been pretty good for almost everybody in the marketing field. There are a few isolated examples of firms that have struggled a lot. Often because they lost one big client or something like that. But it's generally, firms have been doing really well, and there's thinking okay, is this next year, is this year, 2019, going to be as good as last year? DAVID: I don't think it will be better. I don't think it will be a whole lot worse. I think we'll be lucky to have a similar year. But what do you think? BLAIR: For context, we're recording this on December 21st, 2018. So Happy Solstice by the way. So we're going into 2019 wondering how things are going to shake out. And the stock market, see I don't pay much attention to the stock market but I just noticed that all the gains for the year have been wiped out in the last few weeks. So the market is down. There is discussion within the broader financial markets about whether, or not we're headed for another 2008-ish crisis. There is the global political unrest and uncertainty. BLAIR: But in the face of all that, if you ask me to make a prediction of the year ahead ... this has nothing to do with reality, I realize as I was thinking about it. And only to do with whatever is going on inside of me. But I always believe my future is bigger than my past, to steal a phrase from Dan Sullivan, from Strategic Coach. So I'm an eternal optimist. BLAIR: Now it doesn't mean I think that the market conditions are going to improve next year. I actually don't spend a whole lot of time thinking about this. That's why I'm going to interview you on it. Because you've spent some time thinking about it. And this can't be right, but it's a great way to go through life. I actually think it really doesn't matter what the markets do. BLAIR: If I'm running a well run business, I will be able to survive anything. So, that's the way I think about. And then how I think about a bad year, looking back on it, might be entirely different. But I go into it with this, you might call it naiveté, around what's going to happen. But you should hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Is that the saying? DAVID: Yeah. That's a really interesting perspective. And by the way, you are so messed up in the head. BLAIR: I know. I acknowledge that. DAVID: You think I wouldn't be surprised anymore by the stuff you say. BLAIR: What surprised you? DAVID: Well, you said something really powerful, that I don't want to pass up. I want to make sure that people don't miss it. And that's that from a personal performance, or a firm performance standpoint, next year will be better than last year. And that's separate than what the marketplace might bring us. I think that's really, really smart thinking. DAVID: I want to clarify having, in that broader context, that yeah, I absolutely believe that too. Every one of my clients is going to be running their business better in 2019 than they were in 2018. But what will the marketplace bring them? And I think that's just brilliant the way you just separated those two things. BLAIR: So I've spent a lot of time contemplating the question of, is there such thing as free will? Do we human beings have free will? Then one day I realized, you know what, it's kind of a stupid question. Because the answer is it doesn't matter. You should live your life like you have free will and you have total control. And I feel the same way about business. BLAIR: You should operate your business like you have complete control over what happens. Because I think in those moments when we feel helpless and out of control; and if we have a tendency to blame the market, really most of us we're running businesses that can survive a downturn in the market. If we're making correct and courageous decisions and preparing ourselves appropriately, it really doesn't matter what happens in the market. BLAIR: Now there are some exceptions to that. Maybe we'll get into that. Because some vertically specialized firms in particular are more susceptible to an economic downturn. Is that right? DAVID: Right. For sure. I think of this as ... so you, the people listening to this, are the captain of the ship. You're standing on the deck, and you can't control the winds that are going to come your way, but how far out should you look so that you can take corrective action if you see an iceberg coming. That's kind of your job as the captain. You can't just rail at the winds, assuming that you're going to change them. But you can get your crew ready. You can think about the decisions you need to make, as far in advance as possible. Think about the culture of the crew and all of those things. DAVID: So it's a unique balance that nobody else at the firm has to think like you do with a finger firmly on the immediate pulse, but also looking far ahead, and making those smart decisions that way. BLAIR: Okay. Let's begin by talking about those things that our listeners can do to prepare before a downturn even hits. So if you suspect, or if you're worried about the economic conditions in front of you, wherever you are in time, what are some of the things that you should do to prepare yourself? DAVID: Well, one of the things that you might do is think about, rather than building a much more expansive, slash expensive, amount of money going to people, you could give somebody a one time bonus, instead of building that amount into their usual salary. Because it's very difficult to take money away from somebody, so that would be one thing that you could do. I don't mean a Christmas bonus. I just mean, instead of an annual bonus, maybe you'd give them just a one time bonus, rather than raising their compensation. That'd be one thing to think about. DAVID: Obviously if you've been doing the opposite for a long time that's going to raise a few eyebrows, but it also might just be prudent thinking, and say, "Hey listen. You've kind of maxed out within the salary range that we set for your role. But you've been a fantastic employee. I don't want to build a whole lot of fixed, higher money going to salaries, but I do think you deserve something. So here it is." I think that might be the first thing you probably think about. BLAIR: I think that's a great way to phrase it. Because as you were describing it I was thinking, well how do you communicate this? So you communicate it by saying, "I want to acknowledge your good work." I guess this is my question. Would you acknowledge nervousness about the market? Because of the market et cetera, I don't want to build in higher, fixed salaries. Or would you always come back to, you've kind of maxed out in the salary band. Is it appropriate to communicate to your people, I'm doing this move because I'm concerned about the larger economic conditions? DAVID: Not unless not mentioning it would strike them as odd. So if they are feeling the same thing, because of what they're seeing in the news, and what you're talking about. And if you don't acknowledge that potential for something right around the corner then I think you're going to look kind of stupid. But if saying that feels more like an excuse to them, then I wouldn't say it. So just sort of acknowledge what is widely viewed in the marketplace. I think that's how I would view it. BLAIR: So preparation point number one is to consider bonusing people rather than building salary raises into fixed compensation. What else should people do to prepare? DAVID: I'm really just working down the income statement thinking about where most of the money goes. Right? And most of the money goes to people. Where does it go next? Well it used, and this is kind of changing a little bit, because of how expensive benefits are for people. But where it goes next is facilities. DAVID: So this is not the time to sign a 15 year lease. Right? It might be as long as you have some outs. And those outs are the ability to sublease to somebody else, or the ability to give them six or twelve months notice at any point in the lease, and walk away from it at that point. Or maybe if you're providing a personal guarantee for the entire term of the lease, that personal guarantee is capped at some certain amount. DAVID: So when you think about how you might need to adjust the size of your firm, other than people, facility is the next thing to think about. So just really careful about some of those long term decisions that you're making. BLAIR: Okay. That makes total sense. What else? DAVID: This is one I want to talk about together. And it's just this notion that lead generation, if done well, is this massive fly wheel. Where I grew up we had to supply our own electricity, and there's this diesel generator. I remember how slow that thing would start. You'd have to crank it over by hand and it would go ... little faster, faster. And then once you turned it off it would take forever to slow up. You could lose a hand if you put your hand in there too quickly. That to me is what lead generation is like. It takes so long to spin up. DAVID: So if you don't have your own lead generation plan well in place, before some sort of downturn hits, then you are screwed, my friend. Because it just takes so long. People are always asking me, after we fix positioning and lead generation at a firm, and you're doing the same kind of work as I am, well what results should I expect? How long should this take? And the answer isn't the same for everybody. But frequently it sounds something like this. "Well, if you do everything right, you should expect to land the first right fit client in about six months. And then about every three months you're going to land another one." And they look back at you thinking, that is not what I expected to here. DAVID: So you've got this downturn that hits and then you decide to get your act together. Sorry friends, it's too late. You know. What do you think about how long this kind of stuff takes to spin up? BLAIR: Well, and both of these issues, positioning, and lead gen in particular, they also affect how you see the new business position. So if you don't have the flywheel, the lead generation flywheel moving already, by creating content, building a reputation, et cetera, putting stuff out there that positions you and drives inbound inquiries. If that's not happening and then you hit an economic downturn ... and let's say you've got the new business seat is empty, and you decide oh we need new business, we have to fill it. You're going to look at the new business seat as you want to feel it with somebody who does lead generation the old fashioned way. The outreach, the cold outreach way. BLAIR: And when times are good and your lead generation flywheel, to continue the metaphor, is turning with little effort, then most small to midsize independent firms, probably don't need a business development person who is its salesperson. They need somebody who is actually good at navigating a sale to a close. BLAIR: Just very quickly, if you need your new business person to generate leads for you, rather than navigate the leads that marketing is generating for you, than you want somebody who has got a very high competitive drive. Who's rejection proof. Who goes, goes, goes. Who talks people into things. When leads are coming from marketing then you tend to think of a salesperson as somebody who is a little bit more patient and consultative, who's good at navigating. Is a little bit more discerning, so they have a lower competitive drive. And they're good at navigating opportunities through to a close. And in a lot of firms that can be the principal or another senior person. BLAIR: If your lead generation flywheel is turning you don't need that kind of old school typical new business person, who's out there smiling and dialing. DAVID: Right. BLAIR: But as soon as the downturn hurts and you realize that you haven't done the hard work on the lead generation flywheel issue, then you're going to panic, and you're going to go looking for a salesperson, lead generator, who's going to smile and dial and try to talk people into things. DAVID: I always picture those people driving a Taurus for some reason. BLAIR: Why? DAVID: I don't know. They drive 300 mile max trip and it's usually a dark colored Taurus, and they're wearing a polyester suit. Maybe I'm a little prejudiced about those sales people. BLAIR: Yeah. Maybe you are. DAVID: Yeah. Maybe. BLAIR: Okay. So we're talking about preparing for a downturn. You've talked about trying to keep your fixed comp lower by maybe bonusing people, rather than raises. You've talked about being careful about signing long term leases. You've talked about do your positioning and lead generation planning and work in advance, so that the flywheel is still spinning even in a down economic period. What else? Anything else on the preparation list? DAVID: Last thing maybe would be just to pay down as much as possible, the debt that you've already incurred from either ignoring operational issues that you should have solved in other ways, or maybe from the last downturn, or whatever. Get that off the books. Because when you are looking at reducing your monthly outlay there are some things that you simply can't touch. One of those is the debt. So if you have debt, still on the books, in a downturn, you have to cut the people side even deeper than you would have wanted to. You can't cut the facility. You can't cut the debt. So you have to cut the people side deeper. DAVID: So you really want to focus there, and in particular you want to focus on any debt that's personally guaranteed. Which for any smaller firm listening, almost all of it is. Even the credit cards. That would be like a term loan from a bank or a line of credit. Sometimes in the bigger firms, it's not. If there's a distinction there and some of the debt is personally guaranteed, and some isn't, then focus on the part that's personally guaranteed. So that if there's a really big disaster and we have to walk away from the firm you won't be as harmed personally outside of the corporation, that is the business. BLAIR: Yeah. This in a previous episode we talked about the idea of steady pressure and a pulse of something hitting. So the steady pressure in this case might be debt. You're carrying an unnecessarily high debt load, and then the pulse is rapid economic downturn. You've talked before about how ... I don't know if you abhor debt, but you can correct me if that's wrong. I think you've got a great line about how debt covers up some other issues. Right? It hides things. Is that right? DAVID: Right. Right. Debt is okay in some cases. I personally hate it for anything except for appreciating assets. But where I particularly hate it is where it's just covering up sins that need to be solved in other ways. Whatever the reason for the debt that's on the books, get rid of it as much as you can before a downturn. Then of course if the downturn does hit you could borrow again. I don't think you should. You could borrow again. But mainly it's about giving yourself the flexibility of not cutting more people than you would have otherwise done. BLAIR: Yeah. If you're carrying a lot of debt in good economic downturns, the likelihood of you surviving an economic downturn is not good.   BLAIR: So let's move from how to prepare to how to react. So let's say, God forbid, the market keeps dropping. Other things happen. And we get something close to what happened in 2008, and a big part of the economy kind of takes a big hit. Or freezes outright for a little while. I think you're a big proponent of having a plan. Right? Essentially having a plan, in writing, that you enact at the appropriate time. Is that fair? DAVID: Yeah. Because it's very emotional when it hits. So whether it affected the world around you, and you weren't being singled out, or whether it was just you losing a big client. Whenever that happens it tends to freeze you. It's emotional. You don't know exactly what to do and the best way to prepare for that, I found, is for you as a management team to get together before it happens, and put two plans together. One is the adjustment plan. One is the survival plan. And you put it in a folder. I mean, maybe it's not really a physical folder, where somebody could find it. Maybe it's just in a folder on your computer, or whatever. You just pull that plan out. It will still need to be modified a little bit. But it's a fantastic starting place. DAVID: The adjustment plan would say, "Okay. We probably need to get rid of this one administrative person. We're going to need to slim down and have two fewer account people. Whatever." Then the survival plan is much deeper than that. "We are going to sublease half of our facility. We are going to stop our cooperation with this other firm that we've been doing. We are going to put off this particular purchase. We are going to draw down our line of credit, up to this amount but not a penny beyond that. I am going to cut my salary." Whatever all of those things are. You just pull out the appropriate plan. The adjustment plan or the survival plan, and then you put it into place. DAVID: If you haven't done that then you're typically going to lose two or three weeks worth of very valuable time in reacting the way you probably should. BLAIR: Okay. So I'm imagining, it's a little bit of war planning or just scenario planning. You have these two folders. Here's what's going to happen when things go bad. But I also imagine that that subjective measure of when things go bad, changes as things are going bad. So you probably should have some objective measure that says, when this happens or when revenue or AGI per FTE, or when this client leaves. Or a client of a certain size leaves, or whatever. Is that what you're saying? And if so what would those objective measures be? DAVID: That isn't what I was saying but I really like adding that. Because otherwise, you just don't know when ... so if we were part of the military planning in the U.S., we might say, "Okay if North Korea launches this missile, this is what we're going to do." That would be very easy to measure. But if we say, "Okay how do we measure our relations with that country getting worse, and so on." DAVID: So one of the things that I've seen some firms do is that when they add generous benefits ... so they say, "Okay we're going to pay for everybody's parking now." That makes sense. A lot of firms say that. But what they don't do is they say, "We're going to pay for everybody's parking now, because now our fee billings per full time equivalent employee are above X. And by the way, if they drop below X again, then we will no longer be able to do that." So they layer the generosity, and they tie those individual layers to specific performance metrics. DAVID: The ones that they would particularly pay attention to would typically be the fee billings per full time equivalent employee. Or it could be net profit. That net profit frequently would need to be indexed so that if the principal pays themselves less money to help get through a downturn, we recognize that. And say, "The net profit lower would be a whole lot lower if I hadn't lowered my compensation." So, that's what I mean by indexing that. DAVID: But I like that. So we're going to go to this folder if we lose this client. Any client that represents more than 25% of our billings. Or we're just going to go to this folder if we have two quarters in a row with less than five percent net profit. Or something like that. That's how I would think about it. BLAIR: So I think our listeners need to go out and buy one orange folder and one red folder. DAVID: One red folder. Right. BLAIR: Okay. What else should we be thinking about in terms of our reaction plan? DAVID: You know when you work with a firm, and I work with a firm, and we're sitting there looking at their situation for the first time, it's really obvious to both of us that the roots of what they're struggling with came about many years ago, or many months ago. Then you stop and say, "How did that happen? What led to that?" And frequently it's when they began to chase cash instead of chasing profit. DAVID: So they had these people that were working for them. They didn't want to lay them off. So they said, "Okay I know this is not an ideal client but at least it's something for them to do. We're not going to make a lot of money, but we'll make more money than if we didn't take work for them." And that's fine if you want to do it. But what you don't want to do is lie to yourself here and say, "And then when things get better we'll convert them into the good client that we had hoped they would be at the first." That is simply not going to happen. It's very unlikely that that's going to happen. DAVID: What you want to do is not necessarily, you wouldn't be able to drop this edict on yourself and say we're just never going to chase cash. We're really going to chase profit only. That's probably unrealistic. But at least be honest with yourself and say, "We are going to take this client. We're not going to make much money. But at least it's going to cover our overhead. We know that as soon as we are able to we are going to replace them with a client that will deliver profit to us." So just being honest at the very beginning and recognizing when the switch in your head flips, and you chase cash instead of chasing profit. BLAIR: That's a really important point. And you wrote something years ago, and I quoted you again within the last two weeks on the subject. I think the article was titled, it wasn't the title it was the point of it. Most cashflow problems are profitability problems. DAVID: Right. BLAIR: And somebody said to me the other day, "Oh yeah, we're going to do X. It's just an issue of cashflow." And I probed deeper into that to try to determine whether it was a cashflow problem or a profitability problem. But the interesting idea there is some people know it's a profitability problem. We're just not getting validation from the market that what we do is actually worth something. And others are somewhat delusional about it. So they might know it and they might be spinning a story to you. Others might be spinning a story to themselves. BLAIR: So you're saying, be honest with yourself. First of all. About whether or not we're talking about cashflow or profitability. But in this specific situation, I really like how you said it, it's unrealistic to say never take something for the cash. Because there are times when you've got good people sitting there with nothing to do, and along comes a project that isn't profitable, and you think, 'yeah, what's the harm. It will keep them busy. Maybe they'll enjoy it. There's no profit in it for us but allows me to keep those resources around.' So you're saying that perfectly valid. Just be honest with yourself, and maybe your teammates or your leadership team about what you're doing. DAVID: Yeah. Exactly. And when you mask a problem and say it's cashflow, what you're really saying is this is a problem with my clients. If you said profit, that's really a problem with the way you're running the business. So it's easy to deflect some of the decisions you're making around that. DAVID: You know the other thing I would do too, working down this list, is just about, do you really want to continue this business? In the past it never seemed to be an option to just close the business because there was so much stigma attached to that. But I don't see that stigma in the marketplace anymore. I don't see the stigma of failure like I used to. In fact, I see more stigma associated with people who stick it out, and they really shouldn't. Instead the courageous decision is not to stick it out. The courageous decision is to just stop it. Right? DAVID: But you want to make that choice for yourself. Like every professional athlete, they want to chose when they stop. They don't want their contract to not get renewed, or get shuffled down to a minor league team or something. Just deciding, making a good decision, early on, and not just bleeding all of the money that you do have out to fix this thing that in the end never gets fixed. BLAIR: Now you work with about 50 firms a year. How many times a year are you advising your clients to shut their businesses down? DAVID: About, probably two a year. So four percent or so, of those firms. BLAIR: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What else is on the list of how to react to a downturn? DAVID: Maybe you need to get rid of that partner. Maybe this is the right time to do it. The firm will never be cheaper if you need to pay them out. This is going to be the cheapest you'll ever get it. That would be one way to look at it. BLAIR: So I'm imagining a firm of two partners, and both partners are listening individually, and they're both thinking, 'Yeah.' DAVID: Yeah. BLAIR: I'm going to get rid of that other partner. DAVID: And they're trying not to flinch as they listen to betray what they just thought of. Yeah. BLAIR: Okay you're both in the car together. You're not making eye contact. This is getting really awkward. You better stop for coffee. Or switch to country music. DAVID: Surely it's not that bad. We don't have to go to country music. BLAIR: We can stop right now. We're done. This podcast will not get any better. DAVID: It probably won't. Why do you not get through a tough time, if you do have a partner? You would think that having a partner would make it easier to get through a good time. When in fact sometimes it's just that you're not on the same page. You're not pulling the oars in the same direction. I often think that, oh there's a great opportunity to adjust your partnership. Especially if this highlights how one of you is just not carrying your share of the weight. BLAIR: Insert awkward silence here. We just stirred up a whole hornets nest, didn't we? Anything else on your reaction list before we get to things that we don't dread about a downturn? DAVID: No, that's about it. Those are the big things. But if you get those you've covered almost all of it. BLAIR: Okay. So I'll just recap. So it happens, you've got to have two folders. One is like things are going bad and when things are really bad. You want to have objective measures where possible. You want to know who you're going to layoff because as you've pointed out, that's probably the easiest part of your overhead to deal with, is the personnel. Don't chase cash instead of profit. Unless you're honest with yourself about what it is that you're doing. Think about shutting it down if it's appropriate. If you're thinking of getting rid of your partner, now is a really good time to do it. Probably financially as well. Okay. BLAIR: So you and I have talked about this before, in private conversations. We have each talked about this from a stage, or written about it. But a downturn isn't all bad, is it? Why? Why isn't it bad? DAVID: No, and I'd want to hear what you have to say about this because you have a very strong evolutionary way of thinking about this. Right? BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: You see animals killed where you live and you realize it's a part of life. Maybe firms dying now and then is a part of life. It just sounds so cruel when we say it, right, but thinning the herd is okay. If maybe you don't survive, maybe you didn't deserve ... did I just say that? Maybe you don't deserve to survive right? BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: And if you do survive than tomorrow you're going to have fewer competitors. And it's kind of sad for them, but it's kind of a good time, too, right? Oh that just sounds so awful saying it. BLAIR: Well first let's put it in a larger context. Because I think for most of listeners here, let's just acknowledge, we're all very fortunate to be born when we're born and where we're born. And to be running businesses. And if our business fails what's the worst that's going to happen? If we've been successful entrepreneurs to a point, and our businesses fail, then we will regroup and we'll be fine. We will start another business, or we will go work for somebody else, and we will put those skills to bear. BLAIR: A small number of people, for whatever reason, whatever else they're dealing with in their lives, it's not going to be so easy. So let's just acknowledge that there's always some human suffering. But as we talked about in one of the podcasts a couple of episodes ago, the worst case scenario really, for most of us, isn't all that bad compared to most of the population on the planet. BLAIR: So with that greater context, the idea is that a downturn is like a disease running through an animal herd. It kind of kills the sick and the weak. And in some ways it's a horrible ... well it's a ruthless metaphor. It's not horrible. But in the end it makes the herd stronger. There have been times when I've heard you say, you know if you've opened a design firm in the last ten years, and you haven't made money, then you're an idiot. Because the economic times have been so good that all you had to do was- DAVID: Did I really say it like that? BLAIR: Yeah. Maybe on paraphrasing. But you've essentially said, times are so good that it's really hard not to make money. We have to make exceptions for the exceptional situations. Like when you're young, you're just starting out. You're highly leveraged debt wise. Taking all this risk when you're just starting out. I'm a big fan of those people. And other things, you care for a sick loved one, et cetera. There are all kinds of extenuating circumstances. But generally speaking there are some firms that continuing with the ruthlessness streak, that the world's just not going to miss. DAVID: Right. BLAIR: If they go out of business. Because the honest to God truth is they weren't creating value in ways that other firms, that may have been somewhat similar to theirs, were creating real value. So if you're not creating real value in the world, and an economic downturn hits and your firm gets wiped out, you can feel sorry. You can say, "Oh the odds were stacked against me." But statistically the odds are probably that your business isn't going to be missed. DAVID: Yeah. BLAIR: So what does that do to the profession? It makes it stronger. At least in theory it does, doesn't it? DAVID: It does. And even though it does sound callous I concur exactly with what you're saying. So if you are running a firm right now, and you know how well you're positioned, you've got this lead generation flywheel spinning. And you've got good people, and you don't have a lot of debt. What if next year is bad? In the world around you. What if the environment does take a turn for the worse? In some ways you ought to be rubbing your hands together, and saying, "Oh man. This is going to clear my head. I can't wait to make sharper decisions and to think more clearly about this. And to not tolerate some of the poorer performers that I have. And to use my time more wisely. It's okay." DAVID: So as we face some of the uncertainty that's coming up, I hope the people that get nervous are the ones who should get nervous. And they get off their asses and start fixing their lead generation problem, mainly. That's the big one. I know you've got some events coming up. I've got some events coming up. People need to take that sort of stuff seriously. Or if they just know what the answer is, then they just need to get off the couch and start doing things. Those are the people I want to hear this and just really implant this sense of excited, not urgency, but excited about the future. Excited about taking their firm a little bit more seriously. I think is a message we want for people. BLAIR: You wrote to me an economic downturn is like a breath of cold, fresh air, on a cold winter day, in the mountains. What the hell did you mean by that? DAVID: You just can't ignore it. You just climb out of the tent and ... oh my goodness. It opens up your lungs in a way that it doesn't. And you feel alive, like you're never going to feel alive in an apartment in a city somewhere. Right? BLAIR: Yeah. When I read that I thought some of us our wartime CEOs. When there isn't something wrong, when we're not under attack, by say a competitor or a larger economy, then we are not at our best. When you see threat on the horizon that's when, you know it's like that bracing cold air. It's like, all right. I recognize that in myself. I don't know if you see it in yourself. I recognize it in some of my clients. BLAIR: There's nothing like a little bit of threat to reinvigorate you about your business. And that's what I was when I read your line that an economic downturn is a breath of cold, fresh air, on a clod winter day, in the mountains. DAVID: Yeah. And I didn't mean that as a Hallmark card either. I meant it as a terrifying, sort of invigorating statement. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: This has been fun. BLAIR: It has been fun. So let's just leave our listeners with this. We hope an economic downturn is not in your immediate future, but if it is we'd like you to think about it, like a breath of cold, fresh air, on a cold winter day, in the mountains. Okay. Thank you David. DAVID: Thank you Blair.

David and Blair compare each other's competitiveness, and then offer some specific ways principals can actually collaborate with their competitors as a part of building beneficial business relationships.   TRANSCRIPT BLAIR: David, today we're going to talk about how to crush your competition, is that right? DAVID: Instantly I got very excited about the concept, that's really not what we're going to talk about, but I love that idea. Oh my God, I'm just too competitive, but that's actually the opposite of what we're going to talk about I think, unless you want to switch it at the last minute. BLAIR: No, I was with a bunch of guys the other night, and had this little men's night retreat thing, and maybe more than half of them were entrepreneurs. One guy was winding down a business, and he was saying, "I'm not sure if I'm competitive enough to be in business." I didn't say anything, but I thought, I suppose that's vital for you to be competitive in your nature to succeed in business, would you agree with that? DAVID: Yes, I would, but there's something wrapped around competitiveness that is just as important to me, and that's risk-taking. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: It does seem like the two of those are related, that's why I quit doing a few things outside of work, because I realized I was not as competitive as some of the young fools that were willing to sacrifice their body, and I wasn't. It's not that my body is so precious, it shouldn't be sacrificed, it was more I was allergic to the pain. Yeah, there's something about competitiveness and risk-taking yeah, for sure. I'm competitive, do you think of yourself as competitive? BLAIR: I've measured my competitiveness and your competitiveness, and you're more competitive than I am. I'm as competitive as the average person, but the makeup of that competitiveness is a little bit skewed. You can break down competitiveness into different forms, so I think of myself as average competitiveness. DAVID: Okay, this is more about how do we tame or tamp down some of our competitiveness for our advantage, and for the advantage of the world really. BLAIR: You really want to talk about this idea of collaborating with your competitors, is that correct? DAVID: Right, yeah, and it's something I've learned in my own business life, but I've also tried to coach my clients to do it as well. It's been really interesting, it's a concept that strikes us like, did he really just say you should be more collaborative with your competitors, or did I mishear him? No, that's really what I mean. BLAIR: Okay, so we think of being in business just like my friend said the other night, we think of it as business is highly competitive, and we need to be cutthroat, and we need to always have an eye on our competition. We're trying to best them, I'm fond of saying that positioning is an act of relativity. You position relative to your competition, and in endeavoring to position your firm against your competition, you're trying to kill them. BLAIR: Now that's an overstatement, but that's the prevailing view, right? The competitors are there, people that ... It's your job to beat, it's your job to win against them, and you want to fly in the face of that a little bit, so where did this idea come from? DAVID: Well it's been rooted really in 20 plus years. I did something a little crazy back in the late 90s. I wanted to start an event, and that was obvious to me, I wanted to start an event. Okay, so what kind of an event would it be? Well it needs to be an event that's going to attract a lot of people. How do we do that? Well, the content has to be fantastic, it's like okay, then I just stopped in my tracks, because I'm thinking, well if the content's going to be great, then I've got to invite a lot of my competitors there. DAVID: We don't see eye to eye on everything, but I need to have them there, because they're very smart. People are going to come and want to hear from them as well, like what kind of a stupid conference would it be where I'm the only one speaking? That's not a conference, that's like your own personal platform. I was faced with a decision, do I really want to give my competitors a platform? DAVID: I was nervous about it, other people were a lot more nervous about it than I was, they thought I was crazy to be doing that. I thought, this is a worthwhile experiment, and maybe there's some value in being the person who organizes the conference, and does the programming for it. There turned out to be that value, but it was a wonderful experience. It opened up my eyes entirely to the fact that I don't have to make somebody else lose in order for me to win. DAVID: That I can let my guard down, and it actually translated into the way I run events now. People come to an event for the first time, and they're surprised that within about an hour, an hour and a half of the start of the event, people are starting to share stuff that they would not have thought they'd see themselves sharing at the beginning. They're much more transparent about it, and it's just sort of that style that I like to have, it fits with this notion of competitors. DAVID: Recently what struck me, and then I'll shut up for a minute, because I know I'm taking a long time to answer your question. I was listening to the Dan Patrick daily talk radio sports show, and he was talking about interviewing Kobe Bryant one time. They were talking about how do you get yourself up for a game that doesn't really matter? In other words, maybe you're out of the playoffs already, or you know you're going to beat this team, because they're not good. DAVID: What Kobe Bryant said, was at the end of the game, I want my competitor to question why they even got into the sports game. I want them to question why they even became a basketball player, right? I thought, well that's kind of funny, but it's really not the kind of spirit I want as a collaborator. BLAIR: Even when he's playing in a game that they're almost certain to win in, he's still thinking about crushing the spirit of his competitors. DAVID: Right, yeah, what's the point of that? BLAIR: Do you still have a page on your website that lists your competitors? DAVID: I do, right? I do. BLAIR: Am I on there? DAVID: I don't know, I know you don't want to be, so let's just say you're not. BLAIR: Yeah, I think you had me on there, and I called you out, I said, get me off that list. DAVID: Right. BLAIR: I don't know why that is, okay, so you conceived of this idea, this event, and you had a partner in this event, can we name the event? DAVID: Yeah, it's MYOB, Mind Your Own Business. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: The how people, were the financial partners and the marketing partners, and I did the programming. BLAIR: That's where you and I first met in 2003. I reached out to you when I started my business somewhere in 2002, and you invited me to speak at this thing. DAVID: Yeah, and look at how much good has come from that, right? BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: You and I have become friends, we do a podcast together, we share a lot of clients. Here's the biggest thing, I learned so much by having you there. I mean the very first time I heard you speak, I learned so much. It made me such a better advisor, and the same could be said of the other folks, not everybody, but most of the other folks that I invited. It's like, oh wow, it made me a much better advisor by listening to them in that kind of a setting. BLAIR: Let's walk through how somebody can, once they get their head around this idea, how they can put it into practice. First, I can imagine what the objections are, right? When you're talking to somebody about this idea of be more open to your competitors and collaborative with them, what's the first thing that comes up objection wise? DAVID: Well it comes up a lot too, and it's like, "Oh, that's a good idea, but I can't put that on my website, because what if my competitor's see it?" It may be something like our new focus, that's usually not as big an issue, but things like client criteria, or some unique way we have of going about solving problems for clients, or a case study, or something like that. They envision these competitors in the wee hours of the morning sneaking onto their website and furiously copping things down and grabbing screenshots, and then reinventing their own firm, as if they're really doing that. DAVID: That's the objection, I don't want my competitors to see that. I don't want them to copy me. Do you hear that, or do you see it in other ways? I'm curious if it's just my clients. BLAIR: I'm not sure if I hear it a lot, but I sense it a lot, and I've experienced it myself too. My own experience has been, if you're really carving out a path of leadership in something, it means you're constantly, by the reinventing your business, or coming up with new IP, with new ideas, and by the time somebody's adopted something that you've ... Let's call it stolen, stolen something that you've put on your website and made it their own, you should be somewhere else, right? You should be off into the distance. DAVID: Right, and that's part of your practice, part of my practice, part of what we urge clients to do is to reinvent themselves frequently every couple of years maybe. While this may work beautifully for you now, it's not going to be the thing that you're doing down the road, reinventing. Let's talk about the whole positioning thing, how many competitors does Win Without Pitching have? BLAIR: It really depends on how you frame the question. If you look at sales training for creative professionals, I don't actually know of any other organization that frames their value proposition, the discipline in the market, the combination of discipline in the market that way. That would be ridiculous for me to say there's no direct competitor, so that's at the very narrowest, who else says we just do sales training for creative professionals? DAVID: Right. BLAIR: Our real competition is any new business consultant to the creative professions. DAVID: Right. BLAIR: Anybody who's selling sales training. Most sales trainers aren't specific to a market, so anybody in the sales training business, any new business consultant. DAVID: If somebody popped up, let's say you just heard through a client of yours or something, and they said, "Hey, have you seen [inaudible 00:09:14], it looks a lot like yours?" Pretend that you have this conversation with them, and you look at the website. It is the same positioning, sales training for creative professionals, or creative entrepreneurs, what would your reaction be? BLAIR: My reaction would be, I would gird myself for a fight in the most positive sort of way. I love a challenge, if somebody was using that same language, I would just steel myself and whip my team into a frenzy, and run out into the battlefield. DAVID: I'm picturing this movie scene, yelling to this guy. BLAIR: Yeah, Braveheart. DAVID: Right. BLAIR: Somebody would have to be using very specific language, very specific to me. One of the things that I've seen over the last few years, is when I started my business back in 2002, when I was a new business consultant, there were very few new business consultants. Whoever was out there, the Internet was still a relatively new thing, right? Web browsers were about seven or eight years old in 2002. BLAIR: If there was a lot of competitors out there, I wasn't aware of them, I was really aware of two or three. Nowadays there's rarely a week or a two week period that goes by where I'm not made aware of a new business consultant. I made this conscious decision a couple of years ago to just quit thinking about them as competitors, and just to think about them as my future distribution network. BLAIR: I recently put out a call on LinkedIn saying I want to forge a closer relationship with the world's best new business consultants. I know I met a lot of consultants out there who say, "I give your book, the Win Without Pitching Manifesto to all of my clients." What I said in this post on LinkedIn, I had about 30 inquiries from it, is if you're already preaching the principles, and if you're already teaching the Win Without Pitching way, and you're interested in formalizing the relationship, then reach out to me. BLAIR: I had to see somebody else doing that, and somebody else talk about the benefit of it just the way that you're doing it now. DAVID: Yeah. BLAIR: For me to just have this switch in my mind. You've been very good at this, and you've been a very good role model for me in this, in being a generous competitor, and it hasn't been in my nature. I'm the person who loves a fight, so something has shifted in me in the last couple of years, and I look around at the people I know in business, and some people that you and I both compete with. They are such open, generous, sharing people, even though we are fairly direct competitors. DAVID: Right. BLAIR: I've just decided that these are going to be my role models in that front too. Now, I'm mellowing in my old age or something, because something's definitely changed. DAVID: Yeah, it is really interesting to see. I'm doing an event shortly, and I've invited ... You'll be speaking there, it's really important to me that you speak there to address the whole sales training process. I'm just unqualified to even speak to it, but I feel like the people coming need to hear that. Then, I think four of my competitors will be there. They won't have a platform, but I will introduce them, they're coming for free. DAVID: I invited them, and I plan to put in the work. We're going to split up into groups, and we're going to try to apply these positioning principles to the individual firms. These competitors know what they're doing, and so the evil side of somebody might hear that and say, "Well, wouldn't someone just hire one of these." It's like, well that's fine, because in my mind feeling like you have all these competitors is really misunderstanding the fact that it's not just about what you do, but it's about how you do it. DAVID: I have a very specific style, and whenever I try to cross the line and be somebody that I'm not to a client, like more of a coach or something like that, I am doing a disservice to them, and I'm doing a disservice to me. I find it really wonderful to have these other folks who are very good at what they do, who have a more appropriate style for a certain client. When I think about living in a world where I couldn't recommend other options for my clients, it's a little bit sadder to me, because I do want my clients to get help, even if it's not with me. DAVID: Now what's interesting though, is we have different approaches to this when we're not as busy. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: We tend to be a little bit less generous when our businesses aren't run well, when we don't have a steady stream of opportunity. That's just another argument of 100 arguments to run your firm well, so that you're not paralyzed by not enough work, or thinner margins, or something like that.   BLAIR: I was going to play devils advocate here a little bit, and push back and say, well it's easy for you to be magnanimous this way, you're the worldwide leader in your field. You've got all the work you want, I think most people from the outside looking in would see that, so it's easy for you to just say, "Well there's plenty for everyone." If you're running an independent creative firm, you've got a dozen people, you're not seen as meaningfully different, do you think the principle still applies? DAVID: No, I don't, and I think the solution there is to have a positioning where it's so much clearer to you and to your prospects where you're a perfect fit. If you haven't nailed that positioning equation yet for your firm, then I think this is a very dangerous thing to do, right? Now you could still be generous in some other ways, like you could be generous in sharing contractors with other agencies, or even some employees. In terms of clients, I think that would be a dangerous thing to do, if you haven't ... DAVID: Well, a couple of things, not just positioning, but also having this lead generation process in place. You and I have talked quite a bit about this, how we have a simplified plan that's driven by discipline, so if you don't have the positioning and lead generation in place, then it's a pretty dangerous thing to be this magnanimous. The way to fix that is not to be selfish, the way to fix this is to fix your positioning and lead generation. BLAIR: Do you find that your generosity towards your competitors is returned? Are you referred business or other similar invitations from these competitors? DAVID: In some cases I am for sure. I think about Tim Williams for instance who I think does really good work. I've sent work his way, he's sent work my way for sure. I think about Carl Sachs, I think about the folks at Newfangled. I think about Philip at the Consulting Pipeline podcast. I think about Drew McClellan, I hate mentioning names, because there's going to be a bunch of names I've left off, but in general yes, absolutely. DAVID: Even at the beginning where they're taken aback by the generosity, they'll soften up over a few years, and discover that it's real. I'm really trying to help them, I'm not trying to hurt them. That started years ago, like you write a new book, or you have a new program, tell all your competitors about it in a gracious, respectful way. Hey, this is where I'm headed, just want to let you know, and oh by the way, here's a copy of the book, hope you're doing well. DAVID: You see an article that's really helpful that would benefit them, you send it to them. I tell you, a big one is speaking engagements. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: If I've been on the platform somewhere, and I talk with the program person, I say, "Listen, this was fantastic, I loved this event. I appreciate you inviting me, do you want a couple of suggestions for people who are also would be a really good fit for this?" That's a perfect opportunity to extend that graciousness to one of your competitors. I find that you're not hurting yourself in any way, you're simply helping everybody in the process. DAVID: I've found that to be very effective, and I've had a lot of my competitors do the same for me, where they've introduced me to a speaking opportunity, and it's been very, very much appreciated. BLAIR: A guy I know who does over a million dollars a year in speaking fees said to me, the number one lead source for speaking engagements is other speakers, right? They get approached and say, "Well, I can't do it, but you might want to think of this other person." He said it's important for you to cultivate relationships with these other speakers, and that means you start referring speaking opportunities to them. DAVID: That's interesting. BLAIR: Two weeks later I was invited to speak in Dubai when I was in another part of the world, and I referred to my new friend. DAVID: Yeah, because you didn't want that long travel, yeah, absolutely. BLAIR: Let's talk about some specific ways agency principals can collaborate with their competitors. I think I've got a list here of some things that you've identified. At the top of the list you've got learn how to run your firm from each other. Do you want to unpack ... Oh, I just said the word unpack, do you want to peal that apart? DAVID: That even sounds more pretentious than unpack. BLAIR: Like an orange. DAVID: Let's just say unpack, okay? BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: Yeah, what's the possible benefit in not helping another principal run their firm well? Hoping that they'll fail? Well, that seems pretty evil, right? The one area where it seems like there's the most benefit for everybody, is to learn how to run your business well. You've learned some principles about key metrics you want to look at, or how to hire the right person, or how to run a meeting better, or how to have the best relationship with your bank, or there's 100 things we could list there. DAVID: Those are the kinds of things that I would put at the top the list, because nobody enters this field with the business management training that would really benefit them. They're all starting from some other skill path, not a role path, and so they come into the business, and they have to learn everything either from somebody that they worked for, and often that's the best place to learn it. DAVID: A great example of a principal that you worked for before you started off on your own, or they learn it from maybe an advisor, like a paid advisor, or maybe they learn it from another principal. That would be the first area I would suggest collaboration, it could be informal or formal. I find that most principals have three or four people that they're friendly with, they can just shoot them an email, or get on the phone and say, "Hey, I'm facing this noncompete situation, what have you learned? Can you introduce me to a lawyer?" Something like that. BLAIR: Oh, that's great, including on here help find good employees. I was thinking about there's an agency principal in Australia you and I both know him. I've done a bunch of work with him. He's told me some stories of when he's had to fire people, they don't say fire in Australia or UK, they sack them, which always sounds extra harsh to us in North America. He's told me stories of he'd bring somebody in who isn't working out, and says, "You're not working out, I'm letting you go, but I think you've got great skills in these other areas, so I've lined up two interviews for you today." DAVID: Wow. BLAIR: Yeah, so he's ruthless when it comes to correcting hiring decisions, but he's very kind in how he goes about it, and he recognizes that everybody's got strengths, and he's got good relationships with his competitors. He's very clear about why he's letting that person go, and why he thinks his competitors should think about bringing that person on, and usually in a different role. DAVID: Right, yeah I think that's great, like if it's for the right reasons, there could be something about the style of this firm that wouldn't be true of another firm. It's not like they're a bad person, they're just not a good fit for this particular role. BLAIR: Is there a line that there's the danger of crossing? The first word I wrote down when you sent me notes on this was collusion. DAVID: Yeah. BLAIR: At some point can you get too close to your competitors? Does it cause some sort of problem, or the perception of problems maybe among clients, or maybe even regulators? DAVID: Yeah, well in the US that would fall under the jurisdiction of the FTC, Federal Trade Commission. Where collusion is very clear, and you can get your hand slapped pretty quickly would be around pricing. BLAIR: Yeah. DAVID: Not so much which opportunities to pursue, although you could get in trouble there, like hey, if I don't pursue this one, can you not pursue that one, that would be collusion. The main area would be on pricing, like how about what's your price on this? There have been some specific lawsuits, the handbook of pricing and ethical guidelines was one example that had to get rewritten, because of a lawsuit as I understand it. DAVID: That strikes me as evil, and I don't think we're talking about that so much. It's more like here's an example, so let's say you're going to respond to an RFP, okay? I know, don't shriek on me here Blair. You're going to respond to an RFP, and you know that another agency has been through an RFP process with them. You might just call them up and say, "Hey, what was that like? Is this even worth it?" Most of the time it's not going to be worth it, but that would not be collusion, that would just be simply sharing public information. BLAIR: I hadn't heard the story around pricing, I was doing a talk on pricing about 18 months ago to an industry group slightly tangential to the creative professions. There was a lawyer in the room, and he kept warning about collusion, he did not like the idea that the competitors were in the same room talking about pricing. I thought he was being ridiculous. DAVID: I think he was being ridiculous, where it can be collusion, is if we're talking about a specific instance. It's not about for instance, the labor law allows you to band together against a common enemy so to speak, that's not collusion. Collusion would be a specific instance related to pricing usually. BLAIR: Gotcha, all right, so let's say somebody's listening to this, and they're warming up to the idea of being more collaborative with their competitors, but they don't currently have relationships with those competitors. How do they go about it? Where do they find these people? Maybe they're so highly specialized, or poorly specialized, they're just not sure who their competitors are, how do you go about it? DAVID: Yeah, if you're poorly positioned, most of your competitors are the ones in your locale geographically. You know those, because they're there, and you share employees, and so on. If you're well-positioned, your competitors are more known to you, even though they're not close to you geographically. These are the names that keep coming up when you are competing for work and so on. DAVID: That would be one way to identify them, obviously Google's our friend here. Another way to identify them, is going to trade conferences. Trade conferences are almost always vertical, or they could be more demographic oriented conferences, horizontal conferences, where you keep seeing the same people there, not so much exhibiting, but you just see them there, they're speaking and so on. DAVID: You notice that these are the folks whose articles are appearing in the same places that yours are, so just connecting with them through your contacts, within a particular focus would be a good way to connect with them. Another might be a common mentor, I get this question a lot, like do you know of somebody that's doing this that I could talk with and so on? I don't connect people who aren't clients of mine, but if they are clients of mine, then I'll try to find somebody to connect them with. DAVID: I actually put round tables together, which are specific attempts to do this, that's not really the subject of this podcast, but that's an example of what a paid advisor might do. Sometimes a common mentor, so like if you're getting advice from an older woman or gentleman in your town who's coaching you on running a good creative business, because they've been in that field, and they've slowed down a little bit, they usually are going to know somebody else that would be a good fit for you. DAVID: I am talking about cooperating with folks who are definitely otherwise competitors of yours. I'm not talking about people that you might meet in a YEO, or YO kind of a context, I'm talking about people that you'd compete with normally. BLAIR: Okay, are there instances where this can go wrong? Obviously, I wouldn't ask you to name names, but I'm sure there has to be situations where you started being magnanimous towards a competitor, and then at some point realized this is a one-way relationship where this person is taking and not giving, and your idea about them ended up changing. DAVID: For sure, yeah, I can think of an attorney actually in New York that I was referring lots of work too, and it turned out that not only did they never share generously, but they kept asking, kept asking, and it became annoying. I just basically shut them down, they still do good work, so I haven't done anything to hurt them at all. If somebody is actually out to hurt me, then we come into the Kobe Bryant crush them phase, which is actually the evil side of this, and it's kind of fun. DAVID: You have to do that once or twice a year, right? Otherwise, I was just wondering if people are still listening at this point. Otherwise, it just doesn't happen, because who are the people that are going to hear the worst things about me as an advisor? It's going to be my competitors, right? If my competitors hear about me, but their experience in working with me is not at all matching, they're going to pause the conversation and say, even just to themselves, you must not be a good client, because that's not how I've experienced him. There's so many advantages here to make this work well. BLAIR: Yeah, it strikes me as this is going sound a bit corny, it's a bit like love though, right? The more you give, the more you get, and the more open you are, and more gracious you are with your competitors, the more likely you are to get back. Even if it's not a full reciprocation, there's still that feeling of you helping others, of yourself worth, etc., it's got to escalate. DAVID: Yeah, for sure, and there are many times when somebody does great work, and you've sent them lots of work, but they're not sending you work. That's okay, because they might be at a different place on the referral chain. In other words, by the time they hear of a client, they're past their need for you, whatever you happen to do along that chain. DAVID: It can't be a tit-for-tat thing, it's really just about surrounding yourself with people who are generous in life in many ways. I find that, that's a very satisfying experience, almost regardless of the outcome. BLAIR: Well, you've convinced me, I'm going to start thinking about maybe referring a piece of business to you. DAVID: Yeah, it's about damn time honestly. BLAIR: Thanks David, this has been great. DAVID: Bye Blair.