Podcasts about pprom

Type of loss: PPROM, Infant lossMore about Sam's story: Sam Yanes shares the incredible story of her son, Antonio "Tony". From the early weeks of pregnancy filled with bleeding and uncertainty to a courageous NICU journey that spanned eight months, Sam walks us through every heartbreaking and hope-filled moment.Tony was born at just 25 weeks, weighing 1lb 15oz, and immediately faced a mountain of medical challenges. Despite infections, breathing issues, surgeries, and long days in the ICU, Sam clung to her faith and fought fiercely for her son. She opens up about the trauma of his birth, the miracle of holding him without wires for the first and last time, and how her faith has been her anchor through unimaginable grief.More about Emma's Footprints:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.EmmasFootprints.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook: @EmmasFootprintsInstagram: @EmmasFootprints

“I don't think anyone pushes like a VBAC mom pushes.”In this episode, we chat about premature rupture of membranes (PROM) with Noel, a stay-at-home mom from Texas, as she shares her personal experiences and successful VBAC story. We dive deep into the importance of finding a supportive provider and the realities of induction. Noel was never able to fully dilate during her first birth. She and Meagan talk about the impact of meaningful milestones (like reaching 10 centimeters!) during a VBAC labor. Also, it's never too early to hire your doula!Premature Rupture of MembranesPreterm and Term Prelabor Rupture of MembranesNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello, Women of Strength. It is March which means it is my second C-section baby's birth month. I love March so much because it's also when the sun starts feeling a little bit warmer, and you start hearing some birds chirp. We're kind of getting to that spring season, depending on where you are. Let's be honest, I'm in Utah, so it's still probably snowing every day in March. But I love March so much. And we're kicking it off with a really great episode. We have our friend, Noel. Hello, Noel.Noel: Hi.Meagan: I am so excited for her to be on today. She is actually in Texas, and tell us where again in Texas.Noel: The Woodlands, Texas. It's right near Houston.Meagan: Okay, perfect. And this is where you had your baby?Noel: No, so I actually had my baby in Dallas. That's where we were living at the time.Meagan: You were in Dallas. It says it right here on your little form. Okay, so she was in Dallas, you guys. So Dallas peeps or really just Texas peeps or really anybody. We know people travel for support and things like that. This is definitely a story to listen to. And then we are going to be talking a little bit about PROM. If you haven't ever heard about PROM, PROM is P-R-O-M and that means premature rupture of membranes, which means your water breaks, but labor doesn't really start, so it breaks prematurely to labor beginning.There's also PPROM, premature rupture of membranes, which means your baby is preterm. So we're going to dive into that in just a minute. But I wanted to tell you a little bit more about Noel. She is a stay-at-home mom with two boys. One is 3.5 and one is 5, so it's been a little bit since she had her baby. She actually submitted a while ago. We found this and I was like, I really want to talk about this because one, we talk about PROM, two, we talk about finding a supportive provider, and three, we talk about induction. I think it's important to note that if VBAC is more ideal without induction stereotypically, but it is still very, very possible with induction. I think there are so many people who are told that it's not possible out there or don't think it's possible or think that the risk is just astronomically increased when it comes to induction, and that's not true. So Noel has been doing lots of great things. In fact, she just told me a fun thing. She just started a company. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?Noel: Yeah. So we just started a travel agency. It's called Noel Mason Travel, and I'm specializing in Disney. I love Disney, Disney cruises, Universal, all-inclusives, and then eventually just catch-all travel.So yeah. I'm excited. Meagan: Love it. Fun fact about me that you might not know, and it's even more about my husband, we're a big Disney family. In fact, we just went to Disney World for the second time this year. We just got back literally two days ago.Noel: Oh my gosh. We're about to go.Meagan: We love Disney World so much. And my husband is a die-hard Disney fan.Noel: It's so fun.Meagan: It's exciting.I was just told recently by a friend that we definitely need to try a cruise, so maybe we need to connect. But yes, if you guys are looking to take your family to Disney World, definitely reach out to Noel. Of course, you can ask VBAC questions. Noel: Yeah.Meagan: Okay, so I'm going to go back. In addition to starting a travel agency, she loves cooking and is very passionate about pregnancy. She actually started an Instagram documenting her VBAC journey. In addition to fun and travel, I wanted to see if you could tell us more about your Instagram page where people can go and follow that page from when you were doing that.Noel: Yeah, so it's called Docnoelmason. I'm obviously not a doctor, it was just kind of a joke. But I created that Instagram at a time when I was grieving my first birth. After therapy, I realized how important it was for me to just talk. It didn't matter if anyone was listening. I just wanted to talk and educate. I created this Instagram basically just to educate my friends, none of them who were pregnant yet, on how to avoid a C-section, C-section recovery, if you have one. It was just a video diary. There's so much content of me just sitting on the couch to my camera, ugly views, just talking about what was currently going on.Meagan: I love that. I think that's going to be something that people will connect with because that's where we're all at. We just want to sit there and hear where someone else who's going through the exact same thing is. I just feel like we connect so much and that's why I love our community on Facebook, and I love this podcast, and of course, we love our Instagram pages and things and hearing everybody connect. We've been told that people have made actual friendships through this community. It's so awesome. So thank you for sharing that. We will have all of the links for the Instagram page and her new travel agency in the show notes if you are interested in checking that out. We do have a topic of the week instead of a review of the week. If you're just joining us, we have, for so many years, done a review every single week where people comment and leave reviews, and we share them. We're still loving those, and we're still sharing those. So if you haven't yet, leave us a review on the podcast. It really does help us so much in so many ways and truly helps other Women of Strength just like you find the podcast. You can check that out at Google. You can Google "The VBAC Link" or on Apple or Spotify or wherever you're listening to your podcast, leave a review. It'd be greatly appreciated. But today, we do have a topic of PROM. So like I mentioned, Noelle had PROM. I had PROM. She's gonna tell you more about her story of PROM. And I've shared my story a million times about PROM, but they say 10% of pregnancies will have PROM, premature rupture of membranes. I was 3 for 3. It just happened for me. That can be sometimes hard because water breaks, and what do we do? I mean, Noel, what were you told to do if your water broke? Did anyone say anything?Noel: With the first pregnancy, I was told to go straight to the hospital. Don't delay. Get there immediately. With the second pregnancy and a better team, I was told, "Just keep doing what you're supposed to do." Walk if you want to, but just act like nothing's happened.Meagan: Go carry on with normal life.Noel: Carry on. Yeah.Meagan: Yes. That is definitely something that we would suggest. Now, there are certain things that we want to watch out for. If our water breaks and it's green, nasty, meconium-stained, it might be a reason to go in to your provider or call your provider and have a discussion with them. There's prolapsed cord. That can happen, and that is a very serious situation where we need to get on our head and get our butt in the air and get to the hospital. If there is a cord coming out after your water breaks, it is an emergency situation and is not something to just hang out and carry on with normal life. But when water breaks, what I was instructed to do with my third pregnancy, also like you with a better team, a more educated self and I had doulas and midwives and everybody. It was your water breaks, you do a little check-in. What does the color look like? Okay, is it clear? How are you feeling? Do you feel like you have a fever? Do you feel flu-like symptoms? Maybe take your actual temperature and see if you have a temperature. Okay. We don't have a temperature. We're not contracting. All is well. Put a pad on. It's probably going to keep coming. Just to let you know, you will keep leaking and then keep going. Keep going. Now, it is important to know that it can take hours. I'm serious. Hours and hours for labor to start. And Noel's going to share her story in a second. But for me, it really took 18 hours until I was really going with my second. And then with my first, I actually started contracting soon-ish. So it might not be technically PROM, but I started cramping and contracting, but it really took until 12 hours for me to even be 3 centimeters dilated which was very normal as a first-time mom. Know that if your water breaks, it is not like, run to the hospital. We're having a baby right this second. You're gonna have a baby in the car. It's not always like that when your water breaks and contractions aren't starting. So just to let you know, about 95% of all births will occur within 28 hours of PROM when it happens at term at 37 weeks. Now, PPROM is, like I said, preterm premature rupture of membranes. That is something that you will probably want to go in for if your baby is preterm. That happens at about 3% of pregnancies. I just think it's important to note that it happens. Noel and I are proof of that. If it happens, it doesn't mean run. You don't have to run to the hospital. You don't have to think you're having a baby right this moment, but it's something I suggest checking in with your provider about beforehand saying, "If my water breaks, what would you suggest?" They might suggest go straight to the hospital. We know it's not necessarily what you need to do, but at least you know your provider's suggestions. Okay. All right, we are going to take a quick break for the intro, and then we're going to get into Noel's story. All right, Ms. Noel. I have taken so much of your time already, so thank you so much for talking PROM with me. Yeah, let's turn the time over to you.Noel: Okay. So with my first birth, I was the first of my friends to get pregnant and I just had this very fairytale view of pregnancy and birth. I really just knew what happened in movies. So like you said, the water breaks, it's water everywhere, and you run to the hospital. I just had no idea what to expect. I had listened to some birth stories enough to know that getting a doula would be important, but at the time, I thought that is way too expensive and something that I, in my first pregnancy, don't need which is so silly looking back now, especially with my C-section bill being what it was "too expensive". It would have saved me a lot of money. But yeah, I did no techniques like Spinning Babies, no chiro, no PT. I just felt very unprepared. And looking back now, I think my doctor really preferred it that way. I think she didn't ever push me in that direction. I also had SPD and it basically felt like a knife was jamming up anytime I would walk. And again, my doctor never pushed me in any direction. She just said, "Rest when you can." That was awful. I was also told I had an anterior placenta which is a weird thing to remember, but I remember being a little bit scared by that. I guess that's why I logged it. They told me there was no risk to having one. It didn't really matter. But now looking it up, of course I know that can really affect the position of your baby. So flash forward to my growth scan. No surprise, I was told that he was sunny-side up. Of course, I asked, "Is there anything I need to do? Does that matter?" And the doctor said, "No, totally fine. Doesn't matter." You'll have a healthy Baby. So I said, "Okay." They found my fluid was low on that scan as well. Of course, I didn't ask what the level was. I just said, "Okay." They said, "We want to induce you in the next few days." So again, I was so excited to have this baby out. With my first one, I was like, let's get it on the books.Meagan: That's very common.Noel: Yeah. Yeah. So many of my friends I see doing the same thing. Again, you just don't know any better. You're ready to not be pregnant. We scheduled it for July 3rd, which again, I think was a huge mistake a day before a holiday. But again, I wasn't really thinking. I was put on Pitocin. I was already a little bit dilated, put on Pitocin and I was dilating about a centimeter every hour. Pretty uneventful. I would have to move positions. The baby's heart was acting up a little bit, but nothing really to worry about. I got to 9 centimeters. They brought out the table, all the fun vacuum forceps, and I was ready to go. That was probably 4:00. Well, every hour they kept coming in and checking me, and I was still a 9. So a couple hours into that, my doctor came in and said, "We're going to have an emergency C-section." That was that. No questions, just this is what's happening.Meagan: Can I ask why they called an emergency? Was baby struggling or did they just use the emergency to justify as being a Cesarean?Noel: Yeah, I think at the time of day, "Let's get this baby out of you before it's midnight. We want to go home." But no, aby was fine. Like I said, the heart was acting up a little bit, but no one was concerned. She just said, "This is too long to be dilated like this and not have any movement." Again, a first-time mom, I was just like, okay. I remember crying. My mom's crying. I'm crying. We're both just a little nervous about what's about to happen. The doctor came in and sees us crying and goes, "Don't worry, I'm going to have you back in that bikini by the end of summer." It still just has stuck with me what a routine moment this was for her and not a big deal to her. She just thought I would be worried about my body. It was just so ridiculous. The birth was fine. You know, we talked about the Bachelorette. It just was not what I thought would happen as they were operating.Meagan: During your birth?Noel: During my surgery, both the JOBs are talking about the Bachelorette, and I'm chiming in, and I'm just thinking, this is not what I had planned. This is not the moment I envisioned. It was really weird. So that next morning I'm recovering and my mom comes in and is like, "Hey, I don't know if you know, but one of my friends had a VBAC after her C-section with her second baby. She had a VBAC." And I asked her what a VBAC was and we talked about it. Right then I decided, this is what I'm going to do. I'm not doing this again. I am not doing this again. I'm going to have a VBAC. Flash forward about a year, I decided we would get pregnant again or would start trying, and we got pregnant right away. Thank God. In this time, I happened to find this article on Google listing hospitals to avoid for C-sections in the United States. Yep. You know, the article. Mine was number eight. Number eight. I could only laugh at that point, like, okay, all right. This time I'm going to be doing my research.Meagan: Yeah.Noel: So when it came to choosing my provider, I really felt like that was the biggest thing that could set me up for success. I knew I wanted to have the baby in a hospital again. I wasn't sure if it was going to be with a midwife or OB. I joined a Facebook page. It wasn't ICAN, and it was a group our of Dallas. It was a C-section Awareness Group, the Dallas page. There was a supportive OB who was mentioned there.  I had an appointment with him and he was fine. Nothing to write home about. This was also during COVID, so all of those rules were in place and work mattered. I also started searching for a doula at 8 weeks because I just figured, if I'm going to have one, let's have one. I'm going to have them the whole time. One of those doulas suggested moving practices to a group called Dallas Midwife Associates, and now they're Midwife and Co. They are known for supporting VBACs, and the hospital that they deliver in Baylor is also known for just being a very VBAC-supportive hospital. So I switched to that group, and the coolest thing about them is you see a different midwife every appointment you go to. They just cycle you. So by the time you're ready to have your baby, you know everyone on the team. They all know you. You're not worried about your provider being on vacation. There's no pressure for induction or anything. They were so amazing and awesome cheerleaders. The OB who they are in practice with who would do a C-section if I needed one or became high-risk and had to go see him, he was also supportive. So that was awesome. I could not recommend them highly enough. But yeah, just preparing this time, I think, being so clear with myself about why I wanted this VBAC. For me, it was the biggest thing at the time was the recovery. My kids were going to be 21 months apart, and I did not see how I was going to be able to have a baby and another baby if I can't lift up the first one. He was still in a crib. I didn't see how that was going to work. And so the recovery was super important to me. The experience was important to me. I wanted to do everything in my power this time to know that if I had a C-section, it was a true emergency, and that I could look back on that birth and say, "Well, this is what was supposed to happen. This is why C-sections exist," and not, "Oh, gosh, I could have done XYZ differently this time." I also had the SPD again and was not about to let that fly. With a toddler, you're constantly moving, so I couldn't be in pain all the time. I went to go see a chiropractor. I went to physical therapy. They both recommended Spinning Babies as well as my doula. So I did Spinning Babies. I was kind of crazy about it. The whole don't recline more than 90 degrees, the flashlight trick thing, that was everything to me. So 30 weeks on, you would not catch me reclining. I sat with the best posture or just laid flat on the couch because I was not about to have a sunny-side-up baby.Meagan: I can totally relate to that. I didn't sit on a couch. I didn't even sit on a couch because I was like, I'll sink too much and it will turn my pelvis in. I remember driving all back up and pelvis tucked forward.Noel: On the tip of your chair.Meagan: On the tip of my chair not wanting to have a posterior baby at, all. And then I got one.Noel: It just shows you-- yeah, exactly. You're not really in control of it. I asked about my placenta this time. Again, that's nothing you can prevent, but I knew I had lower chances if it wasn't anterior. That was good for me to know that if it was, I would need to work even harder. I don't know how I could sit up any straighter, but do my best. And then I also had what's called an overactive uterus. I guess I just had constant Braxton Hicks. Google would tell you to go into the hospital, you are in labor. So many Braxton Hicks. My belly was just constantly hard. So because of that, I didn't do any of the tea. That would make it worse. Anytime I tried, I would have more Braxton Hicks.Meagan: Because it's a uterine toner. So that's what it is. It is made to help a uterus that is contracting be more efficient. If your uterus is hyperactive already contracting, it's going to try and make it contract.Noel: Yeah, it would go nuts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I did do the dates. I'm a big believer in the dates. Plus they taste awesome. So there was really no harm in that. Okay, so flash forward. It's 38 weeks. I was off and on higher blood pressure. But on that day, I had a reading of 137/95. They began to get a little worried and just said, "Okay, you should monitor this at, home that whole week, and then at 39 weeks, we can figure out if this is still a problem." They did mention an induction if the blood pressure continued to rise or stay the same. I came in at 39 weeks. I was planning on not getting my membranes swept. I wasn't into the risk of that, but with the induction looming, I guess I should say. They did test my blood pressure that day, and it was 137/100. The protein in the urine was negative, but they were still a little worried because it wasn't really going down. I went out to the parking lot. I called my doula, and we decided that I would get swept at that point. The induction was just going to be a few days away, so we figured the risk was probably worth it at that point and went ahead to get checked for how dilated I was. I really wanted to start with the Foley bulb instead of Pitocin if it was possible, but they ended up finding I was 4 centimeters dilated and 70% effaced. Meagan: Okay, that's great.Noel: It looked like I was ready to go. I got swept that same day. Again, I said this was COVID, and the shots had been out for like a month. I found a place for my husband to go get a COVID vaccine because I was crazy pregnant, hormonal, and I kept hearing all these horrible stories about husbands not being able to be in the birth because of them having COVID or something. He's a Baylor sports fan, and Baylor been awful for forever but happened to make it to the national championship that day and that night. He was like, "I don't want to feel sick for this game. I'm not going to get it." Of course, me being almost 40 weeks pregnant could have cared less how he felt and if he was going to feel sick, so the poor guy gets his shot. I'm having contractions at that point, thinking that it worked. So I'm walking around the living room like we're about to have this baby, and he starts shaking and drops his water. Glass shatters all over the ground. He came down with a 104 fever in the middle of this game he has been waiting for his whole entire life. I'm contracting. It was so stressful. So I called my neighbor and was like, "Hey, I think I'm having this baby tonight. I might need you to drive me to the hospital. I don't know if Luke's going to be able to be there." I mean, he was in bed, not okay. Awful, huh? It was so awful. I was just praying, "Lord, I know I've been asking for this baby to come, but please, please, please, can you stop all of this?" I woke up, and completely, everything had stopped. So thankfully, his fever went away throughout that next day. My doula recommended I go to get acupuncture. I thought acupuncture was the same thing as acupressure. I was expecting to go in for a massage.Meagan: Yeah, very different. Very different.Noel: Very different. Very different. I was a little freaked out by all the needles. The next morning I woke up and thought, "Oh, crap, that didn't work. What was the point?" That morning was the 8th. I had an appointment later that day to talk about the induction. I dropped off my son at school. I always heard on this podcast, labor will start when you put your kid to bed or they go to school. I always thought that was so funny. I didn't think it would be me. I dropped off my son at school. I go to my chiropractor's office, and I text my doula and I'm like, "I think my thighs are wet. I feel like maybe my water broke." But, you know, there's so much nasty stuff going on down there at the end of pregnancy. I kind of talked myself out of it. I went to the bathroom and was like, no, I'm just not in control my bladder anymore. I don't know what's going on. On the whole drive home, I just felt more and more liquid. And then getting out of my car, my neighbor and I were getting out at the same time, and I start walking and could just feel more and more wetness. I just stopped and waited for him to go inside. And finally it hit me like, okay, this is my water. Yeah. So I called my midwives and my doula and everyone said, "Just continue doing what you're doing. Everything looked normal. The liquid was clear. I really did not want to be induced. They knew that. My doula knew that." So that whole day, I did everything I could. I did curb-walking. My doula gave me a circuit to work on. I did the Spinning Babies, and nothing happened. My blood pressure was still high, so they wanted to see me that afternoon to do a stress test to make sure the baby was okay and check on blood pressure again. So I went in, did the stress test, baby was fine. But they said, "We'd like you to go to the hospital tonight around 9:00 if nothing has started." Nothing started, so I was upset. But again, I trusted my team and that was the difference here. They were still great with me having a VBAC with Pitocin. There was never a moment where they considered not letting that happen. So I got to the hospital, asked if I could labor until 3:00 AM and just see if it started. Didn't start. They got me on that Pitocin. And at this point, I was still hoping to do things as natural as I could while being in the hospital. I was really hoping to avoid an epidural. I again was not happy about the risks of an epidural, but those Pitocin contractions really were coming on strong. I remember going and trying to labor on the toilet and sitting on the toilet and feeling and hearing what felt like a bowling ball, like a dunk, and I think it was probably the baby settling into a better position. At the time, I hated it. I hated that feeling. I literally looked around and was like, "Did you guys hear that?" It felt internally so loud. At that moment, the contractions started coming on even stronger than before. At this point, it had been 24 hours without sleep. I was not taking the contractions well. I said, "Let's do a check. If I am an 8 or higher, I'm having this baby with that epidural. If not, we'll see what happens." I was still a 4. And so again, I don't think I would recommend it if you would like to go without an epidural. Don't get checked. Just don't get checked. I knew that. I knew that, but it was a different moment when I was actually in labor. So the upside is I was finally able to rest whenever I got that epidural. A couple hours later, I was a full 10 and ready to go. They had me labor down for a little bit, but I will never forget that moment as a VBAC mom when they told me I was out a 10 having never gotten to the 10. Oh, I get chills just thinking about it. It was so special. I labored down for an hour. They turned down the epidural. I could not feel my legs. And so again, Baylor is a teaching hospital. So I had a nurse in training, I guess I had my midwife and then they had a midwife in training at the time, and then husband and my doula all in my room just surrounded. My husband hates it when I say this, but it was the feminine energy. It was just so amazing. Everyone was so hyped and excited for me. I don't think anyone pushes like a VBAC mom pushes. I felt like I was in a throw up. I had this ugly rag on me, but I could have cared less. I was just so excited to get to push. The baby came out with my first. My first baby was 7 pounds-12 ounces, 21 inches long, a normal-sized baby. This baby came out and was 10-pounds, 4-ounces, and 24 inches long. I grew a mega-baby compared to this first one. It was just so great. I didn't do the growth scan with this baby because I was so afraid that if they told me that the baby was big that I might be tempted to get a C-section or scared out of having a VBAC. I knew our bodies were made to do this. No matter how big this baby is, my body can do it. So yeah, that was that.Meagan: Oh my gosh, that is amazing. I am so grateful that you had that team and that energy because that energy is so important, and I do believe that it helps us VBAC moms, and really any mom get through that end stretch that sometimes can be intimidating or it can be longer, and then I love hearing that you got to not only have your VBAC, but then it was like, "Not only did I VBAC, I VBAC'd with a baby that was almost three pounds heavier, bigger than my other baby." So many Women of Strength listen to this podcast. I'm sure you've seen it in your forums. People don't believe that they can do it because our providers and our system tell us we can't because we go through these growth ultrasounds and they create some fear. I love that. I love it so stinking much. That's so amazing. Congratulations.Noel: Thank you. Thank you. It was amazing.Meagan: Are there any other tips that you would suggest in you finding a provider or dealing with PROM and not getting frustrated? I think it said one of the best tips that you would give to someone was making sure your provider and the providers they work with are not just VBAC-friendly, but they're really supportive. Do you have any tips to that?Noel: Yeah. That is, again, what I always tell my friends because if your team doesn't trust that you can do this, that's going to really set you up for failure. I just know so many people who are like, "Oh yeah, I asked my doctor if I could have a VBAC after my C-section and they said, "Sure, we'll just see how this will go, and my heart drops." I'm like, this is not going to go well.Meagan: Actually, that's a red flag.Noel: It's a huge red flag. It's a huge red flag. Yeah. I know me who can be a warrior. It was really important to me that everyone who would be around me was supportive because if I had one person come in there and try to poke my bubble, it could start getting in my head and that I don't need that. So, yeah.Meagan: Yeah. Not even just your providers, but your team and your atmosphere around you. I mean, sometimes in that end of pregnancy when we're being told, "Oh, you why haven't had a baby yet?" or "Your baby's gonna get too big," especially if they were ever given a diagnosis of CPD where their pelvis is too small or anything like that, the things that people say can really get into our mind, so we have to protect that bubble and not let anyone try and poke it and pop it because you deserve to feel safe, love, supported, heard in that bubble.Noel: I think listening to the podcast. I listened to this podcast every single day while I would walk with my firstborn. That helped give me the security. I knew, okay, this other mom had this story that's similar to mine. I can do this. If she could do this, I could do this. So it didn't matter whenever I had people come in who had no idea what a VBAC was try to talk me out of it. You have no idea what you're talking about. I have equipped myself with so many other women's stories. Meagan: You're like, "I actually do."Noel: Yeah, right. I'm Dr. Noel Mason. I know it.Meagan: So yeah, I love that. I am Doc Noel. Another thing that I pulled out from your story was you reaching 10 centimeters and having that feeling and not even maybe realizing how badly you needed to get to that point or hear those words. They're just milestone markers. I was in that too. I needed to get past 3 centimeters because I was told that my body couldn't. Once I was past 3 centimeters, it was like, okay. Okay. Even though I knew in my mind I could dilate past three centimeters, I knew I could. There was still this weird hang up, so once I heard that number past 3 centimeters, I can't explain to you this utter relief and aha moment of like, okay. It gave me this surge of power and strength to hear these words. I think it's really important while we're preparing for our VBAC to process our past births and realize what might be triggering and what might be milestone markers that help encourage you and communicate that with your team. Let them know, "You guys, I have never made it past 9 centimeters. I hung out there forever. I was told I needed an emergency C-section. The number 10 is going to be a big deal for me. I need you guys to help me with that," or whatever it may be. Or, "I really don't want this to happen. Can you help me avoid this?" I think communicating with our team comes with preparing for a VBAC, but also processing things mentally and understanding those big moments that you need is okay to be like, "Yeah. That actually was a big deal for me. This is a big deal for me." My water breaking was a trigger for me. But then to hear that my body could get past 3 centimeters on its own was a huge deal. So I just love that you were like, "I felt that," because I could just really remember back when I felt that moment, of like, yes, yes, I can.Noel: I can do this.Meagan: I can do this. And Women of Strength, as you're listening, I want you to know you can do this. Noel and I are two of thousands and thousands and thousands and hundreds on this podcast who have come before you who have done it. It is possible, but you do have to set yourself up in all the right ways. We know even then, sometimes you can do everything right and still not have the outcome that you want, but our goal here at The VBAC Link is to help you have a better experience. So getting that information, building your team, finding that supportive provider, all of that, and then also knowing your options if a Cesarean is needed, I just think it's so important to know that you deserve it. You can do it. You are worth it. You are worth it. And like Noel mentioned in the beginning, I didn't hire a doula because of costs. I just thought it could be by myself, and then she had this massive Cesarean bill. Sometimes these doulas or education courses or whatever, going to PTs and chiropractors may seem like it's too much financially or you can't do it, but in the end, it really pays off. I'll tell you, there's not a single day in my life that I look back and be like, I can't believe that I went to this two chiropractors and paid this much for that, paid for my doulas, paid for an out-of-hospital birth. I never even questioned that. That money was well spent. Even if I didn't have a VBAC and had to transfer and have a Cesarean, it still would have been well spent because I had a better experience. I felt empowered. I'm also going to plug Be Her Village. I'm sure you guys have heard me talking about it before. I love that company. If you are in that situation where you don't feel like you can financially do it, go register for Be Her Village. You guys, it's a registry for doulas and postpartum and PT and chiropractor and all these things. It's a place where you can go because I'm sure Noel will say it's worth it.Noel: Definitely. Yes, definitely.Meagan: Yeah. And hire a doula early on. I think having a doula early on in your pregnancy who can literally walk through this journey with you is so powerful. It might not be something where you talk to her every day. It might not be like that, but having that person in your corner, I love that you were able to go outside and call and be like, "This is a situation. Let's walk through it," and have that sounding ear and extra opinion and in the end supporting you in whatever you decided, and you decided together that you wanted to do that.I think it's so, so powerful. So as a reminder also, we have a whole registry of VBAC doulas. You can go to thevbaclink.com/findadoula. They are literally trained in VBAC and know the options and want to help you navigate that. Any other tips that you have?Noel: No, but thinking of the doula thing, again, at eight weeks, that is so important. I know a lot of people are like, "I don't even know if this baby is viable yet." I don't even think I had had my first--Meagan: Ultrasound?Noel: Yeah, yeah. I had no idea. But if it weren't for interviewing those doulas, I probably would have stuck with that original provider that I had in mind and gone the whole pregnancy with them. Because if they would have told me to switch at 20-something weeks and my provider was fine and supportive, there would have been no reason to switch. I'm so glad I talked to them when I did.Meagan: Yes. Oh, that is such a powerful thing to remind people of because doulas know the area. Doulas work with these providers all the time. It's outside of our scope to be like, "This provider is garbage. Don't go," or tell you what to do exactly. But at the same time, and maybe it's not really outside of our scope to say that. Maybe it's not really. It's maybe just not appropriate to be like, "This is garbage." But at the same time, we can be like, "Hey, this is what I've seen. I would encourage you to check these people out also. Hey, here are some questions to ask for your provider."Noel: Yes.Meagan: I love that. The doulas know the providers in the area, and they can help guide you through what really is that supportive provider.Noel: Yeah. And supportive hospital or birth center, whatever. They know. They've been there. They have been to more than we have. Yeah. Yeah.Meagan: Yeah. There is a hospital here in Utah that anytime someone wants to VBAC, at first, for a long time, I was like, "Okay, you know, just do whatever feels best," until I saw too much and now I was like, "Listen, I'm gonna be straight with you, and you don't even have to hire me if you don't like my honesty. But if you want a VBAC, you're going to the wrong place."Noel: That's powerful.Meagan: I have said that. You're going to the wrong place. Trust these people. They know. They've seen it. They're there. They're really there.Noel: Yeah. Yeah.Meagan: Yes. Okay, well thank you so much again for your time today and your stories and congratulations on your cute, chunky baby.Noel: Thank you. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Preterm infants, especially those born at periviability, are at inherent risk of a variety of short-term neonatal complications- depending on their gestational age- including sepsis, respiratory distress, IVH, and have an overall higher mortality compared to term born infants. Well known interventions are intended to reduce these complications; these include antenatal corticosteroids, magnesium sulfate for CNS protection, and antibiotics for latency in PPROM. This is an even bigger issue for those born in the periviable interval. That group is a unique population. But does mode of delivery matter? Cesarean delivery is currently not recommended before 25 weeks' gestation unless for maternal indications, even in the setting of malpresentation. We'll cover recently stated guideline in this episode. These recommendations are based on a lack of evidence of improved neonatal outcomes and survival following cesarean delivery and the maternal risks associated with cesarean delivery at this early gestational age. Plus, for non-vertex presenting fetuses, C-section has been reported to reduce risk of neonatal mortality, but what about vertex presenting preterm/periviable babies? In this episode, we will review the mode of delivery and neonatal outcomes in preterm birth with a special focus on those born in the periviable interval, like 22- and 23-weeks gestation. There's lots to cover here…so listen in for details.

Somethings in medicine are pretty cut and dry. Others...not so much. Such is the case with obstetrical management of PPROM with a cervical cerclage in place. Should it be removed, or left in place? While the ACOG has some guidance from March 2020, there has been additional publications released, including one from SMFM. PLUS, a November 2024 review on the topic (AJOG MFM) has suggested a practical approach to this clinical scenario. Listen in for details.

One of our team members, Paige, joins us today to share our first maternal assisted Cesarean story on the podcast! Our favorite Julie joins too sharing her perspective as Paige's birth photographer. Paige tried three times to have the vaginal birth of her dreams. Each time ended in emergency Cesareans due to nonreassuring fetal heart tones. Each time, she missed the golden hour that she so desperately craved. Each time, she learned more and more about birth.With her fourth baby, she exchanged her VBAC dream for a new one. After hearing about maternal assisted Cesareans, she decided to do all she could to pursue one fully knowing it may not happen. But when it did, it was everything she hoped it would be and more. Paige's Full Birth VideoHoum ClinicDayana Harrison Birth ServicesJulie Francom Birth PhotographyYouTube Video: Maternal Assisted Caesarean Section - The Birth of Betty MaeThe VBAC Link Podcast Episode 220: Dr. Natalie Elphinstone & MACsThe Birth Hour Episode 875: Nicole's Maternal Assisted Cesarean in MichiganBaby Baking & Kid Raising Podcast Episode 6: MACs with Lauren BrentonAustralian Birth Stories Podcast: All Maternal Assisted Cesarean EpisodesYouTube Video: Nottingham University Hospitals Maternity Gentle C-sectionCBAC Support Facebook Community How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Oh my gosh, you guys. Today is a very special day. It's a very, very special day. We have our own team member, Paige. If you guys haven't already seen the video floating around, go to Instagram today and watch what we've got posted. We have Paige, and we have Julie, and they are actually in Korea. Now, Paige lives in Korea. Julie flew to Korea to be the photographer for Paige. I was over here in Utah having FOMO as they were Marco Poloing me when she was in labor. You guys, I am so excited. I can't explain to you the love that I have for Paige. She has been on our team for so many years. I'm getting emotional. I have seen this woman transform into the most amazing, strong individual. She has created something so special for her family, and I think, for Korea. This is our first official Maternal Assisted Cesarean story on the podcast. Seriously, my eyes are all watery. I just cannot wait to hear this story. Julie was just saying how she's been dying wanting to call me this week while she has been in Korea, but she didn't want to share her story because it is Paige's story, but I love that I get to have both of them on the show. So hello, you guys. I'm sorry. I just am rambling. Paige: Hi. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Okay. We have Paige. We have Julie. You guys know who they are. Julie, obviously, has been with The VBAC Link for a long time, and so has Paige.Julie: Been with The VBAC Link for a long time? Yeah.Meagan: Yeah, sorry. You created it. Julie: We created it. Meagan: Yeah, sorry. I'm thinking of Paige. Paige has been with The VBAC Link for a long time. If you didn't know, she actually heads the CBAC group, the CBAC Link Community on Facebook, and she transcribes all of these incredible episodes. So thank you, Paige, and welcome everybody.Paige: Thank you. So yeah, I'm just sitting here in my little corner of The VBAC Link team doing my transcribing which I feel like maybe is just a little drop in the birth world bucket until something more happens for me. I've been with The VBAC Link for the last 4 years, and I feel like it's my way of preserving these stories. Spending time with the women on the podcast is such an honor, and it's just one of my favorite things to do. I've learned so much, and truly, we'll get into it, but I wouldn't have had this birth experience in the same way if it were not for The VBAC Link and for being on the team. So truly, thank you to both of you. You've changed my life. All right, what's that?Meagan: I was going to say that you've made our life better. Paige: Aw, thank you.Julie: Yes, absolutely. It is so cool to see this. Me and Paige were just talking last night about this and how it's kind of a full-circle moment. We were going over her other births and how we got here and how she got here. It's just so cool. I am so thrilled about how everything played out. There were so many little miracles. I think miracles is not the right word. There were so many special blessings and things that led her to this point. I cannot wait to hear all of it from her perspective. It's so fun to be here and share on the podcast and really, this story is going to change lives. It's going to change lives. It's going to change birth. It is going to be something that people talk about and use as inspiration and hope as they prepare for their own births, no matter how they birth because there's a lot of advocacy involved. I think that's the biggest thing. There's a lot of advocacy. Paige did a lot of advocating for herself and what she wanted. It doesn't have to be literally the same way that she birthed for anybody to take inspiration from it, so I would just encourage everybody to listen because she is such a good example of fighting for what she wants, and shifting and rolling with the punches. I am just so inspired by Paige. You mentioned it too, Meagan. I am just so inspired by how she has approached all of this. Yeah, there are lots of life lessons. Lots of life lessons in this birth. Meagan: Yes.Julie: Stay tuned, everybody. It's a good one.Meagan: All right, Ms. Paige. We're turning the time over to you. Let's hear it because I cannot wait. Paige: Okay, so I'm going to start with a brief overview of my first three births. I'm a mom to four boys. I never thought that would be my story, with four C-sections. I never thought that would be my story, but it is, and it's beautiful. For my first birth, I got pregnant in September 2015. We were living in Hawaii at the time, but moved to Lawton, Oklahoma. I received prenatal care there at the Army hospital. It was pretty straightforward, just the What to Expect When You're Expecting type prep. They have this program called the New Parent Support Program which is really great for new families.  A nurse comes to your home, educates you, and gives you resources. I did that. That was really nice. I had a friend who was a doula. We took a hospital childbirth class and watched things like The Business of Being Born, but other than that, I was mostly just really afraid of childbirth in general. I was afraid of dying. I just wanted to survive. I didn't really have any specific birth preferences. I have struggled with anxiety and panic attacks throughout my life, so I thought that if I could just survive, that would be a big win. My OB was a family friend, and I felt very safe with him. He had a great bedside manner. I didn't really push any questions. I just trusted him fully and completely. At 34 and 6, I noticed that I started leaking fluids. My New Parent Support Program nurse had advised me that if I had noticed any kind of new discharge or anything like that– colorless, odorless fluid to go and get it checked out immediately. So I did. My husband drove me. I remember I had not eaten lunch, but it was lunchtime. I was like, “Oh, just drop me off. This will be fast, then we will go get lunch.” The midwife there tested the fluids and confirmed it was amniotic fluid. I remember my OB walked in. He said, “You are leaking amniotic fluid. We need to have this baby today. The baby will be fine at 35 weeks, and it's better for the baby to come than for you to stay pregnant basically and risk an infection.” So I was like, “Oh, okay. Yeah. I trust you.” I got a steroid shot for lung development at 35 weeks. Then they started me on an IV with antibiotics because I didn't have my GBS test back yet. Then he also told me that the Army hospital there did not have a NICU to support a 35-weeker and that I would need to be transferred to the civilian hospital in town. So I would have to be transferred. Since I was already on an IV, they were just going to do it via ambulance. It was my first time ever riding in an ambulance. He also said that he legally wouldn't be able to deliver me, but he would go with me and help me make decisions. That was really nice of him to go, but still just the sheer fact that I was going to be riding in an amublance for the first time, I was going to be having the baby that day, and then I was going to have a completely new doctor, was just sheer overload going into a birth that I was already afraid of. Yeah, it was not the best circumstances for a successful induction. I arrived at the hospital. I met the doctor very briefly. I called my doula friend. She came and helped me. We did what we could, but ultimately, my body was just not showing any signs of being ready. I had no contractions at all. I was completely closed and not even soft. No dilation. My cervix was just not showing any signs of progress. After about 14 hours on Pit, they came in. I remember I had the dull cramping from the Pit, but nothing really intense. I also just remember being so painfully hungry, and they wouldn't let me each. But since I hadn't had lunch, I was just so hungry where you get the body chills and stuff. Anyway, the doctor came in, said he was having decels. He recommended having a C-section because my water had been broken for over 12 hours. I consented. I was so afraid. I remember when they were putting in the spinal, I was just heaving sobs into this poor nurse. You go in and prep. The C-section itself was fine. My arms were strapped down. I didn't feel pain, but I remember it was like an elephant was sitting on my chest. It was like, “Oh, it just feels like somebody's sitting on my chest.” It wasn't horrible, and I was pleasantly surprised by that. But then, he was whisked away to the NICU. I briefly saw him swaddled with a hat on, then he was whisked away. No skin-to-skin for my husband or me, obviously. He was 4 pounds, 14 ounces at birth. They wouldn't let me go see him until I felt ready to go. I was just so swollen from all of the fluids. I was so nauseous anytime I would sit up. I just was not ready in any state to try to go walk or be wheeled to the NICU. Finally, 36 hours after delivery, I was able to meet him. We named him before that over FaceTime, but he was in the NICU for 7 days. I wasn't traumatized because I survived and that was my goal. I met my goal, and I was really proud of myself for facing the fear, but hoped for something different the next time. With the second birth, I got pregnant in July of 2017. I had a subchorionic hemorrhage early on that resolved. We were in Texas at the time. It was Fort Hood back then, but I met with many different OB providers at the Army hospital on base there. I felt okay with it because I had a neighbor who was going for a VBAC after two C-sections. She was really supported, and then she had a successful experience there. Because of my 35-week PPROM, they suggested that I go on the Makena progesterone shots once a week from 16 to 36 weeks. I did that. They worked very, very well. I switched to the midwife track because everything was going fine. The midwives were really great. They were really holistic. They supported inducing a VBAC if needed, but they also supported me going into spontaneous labor past 41 weeks. I made it to 41 and 5. The VBAC Link was not a thing back then yet, so I did not have that resource, but I did read Ina May's Guide to Childbirth and the Natural Childbirth the Bradley Way. I read The Birth Partner. I kind of started dipping my toes into real birth education. I was learning about the physiological process of birth, learning how to do it without being afraid, and learning to trust my body. It was really empowering. It was the prep that I needed at that time. I didn't know about bodywork. I ended up having prodromal labor for about a week. It was pretty intense, but I didn't know anything about positioning, posterior, or Spinning Babies. I did find that out right at the end as I was going through it, but I didn't do chiro or any of that. I finally went in for an induction at 41+5 in April 2018. I ended up having to go with an OB on call because the midwife didn't feel comfortable with the NSTs that she saw, so she didn't want to take me on. I was like, “Oh, dangit.” The OB who was there was one who I wasn't really super comfortable with. But he was like, “Oh, well I know you really want a VBAC. We'll try to get that for you.” I was like, “Okay.”I got a Foley. I was barely a 1, but they got a Foley in and I progressed very quickly. I got to a 5 within a couple of hours. Things were going really great. They were very normal labor patterns. I felt like I was managing the contractions really well. I did consent to artificial rupture of membranes, then labored a little while longer. I got an epidural at 7 centimeters. I was told, “Oh, we just had a mom who got an epidural. She relaxed, and the baby came right away.” You hear that and you're like, “Oh, I want that. Yes.” So I did that. I got the epidural at about 6:30ish, and then between that half hour, his heart just wasn't doing well. They were flipping me. I got an amnioinfusion. I got a fetal scalp electrode. I got an IUPC, all the things. Then they gave me oxygen. It was probably about 7:00. He had a prolonged decel. I was lying flat and there were people all around me. The nurse was just like, “We need him now. Do you consent to a C-section?” I was like, “Yes.” Then I surrendered and let it go. I was like, “There goes the VBAC. This is just what needs to happen.” He was born at 7:09, and I was born under general anesthesia for that one. His APGARS were 8/9. My husband was left alone during that surgery. We do have pictures of him holding my son and doing skin-to-skin at 7:27, so about 20 minutes after he was born. I woke up and got to hold him at about 8:45, so about an hour and a half after he was born. I remember it was just really hard to talk after being intubated, but they let me breastfeed right away. I was disappointed, but I don't feel like I had a lot of trauma from that just because I was so empowered. I ended up ultimately making it to an 8. It was so fun for me to see what my body could do. I was like, “Oh, this just means that I was meant for a VBAC after two C-sections. That's what it meant.” Right then in the OR, or I guess it was the recovery room. I committed that that was going to be my story. I was like, “Oh yeah. That's just what it's meant to be. That's why it didn't work out.” I was so empowered. Then when I got pregnant for the third time in September 2019, we were in Germany. We had just moved there. I hit the ground running. I hired a doula right away and a backup doula. The prenatal care was at this small, tiny clinic in a town called Parsberg. I chose not to get progesterone shots. I was like, “I was 41+5. I think I'll be okay without them.” Yep, that's when I discovered The VBAC Link and all of the birth podcasts. I just became obsessed listening all the time, taking notes. I did the bodywork. I watched tons of birth videos. I did cranioscral therapy, chiropractic, and Spinning Babies. I took The VBAC Link Parents Course. I read lots of books. I switched my insurance. I took vitamins. I consumed it all, and I loved it. Every time I did something, I felt like my intuition was confirming that I was on the right path. I specifically would manifest, visualize, and pray, and I just was on this high every time. I feel like that's your intuition confirming to you that you're on the right path. If you feel those things, that's a good sign. You do want to follow that. Meagan: 100%. Paige: I did. Then, COVID. It was September 2019 when I got pregnant. Things were fine, fine, fine, and then COVID started happening. In March, I flew home to Denver to stay with my in-laws. We were supposed to move to Colorado in the spring anyway. My husband was not allowed to come with me. There was a travel ban for 90 days. I just did not want to get stuck in that, so I flew out very quickly with my boys– my two boys. I was 27 weeks pregnant and was living in my in-laws basement. That's a whole thing. COVID was a whole thing for everybody. But it was a scary time and stressful. I didn't know if my husband would be able to make it to the birth, but he was granted an exception to policy leave where he was able to come home. He would have to go back. That was the contingency. But I had rebuilt my team. I had found new bodyworkers. I found a new doula and a new backup doula. I found a team of midwives who were really VBA2C supportive. They were saying things like, “When you get your VBAC,” not if. They really supported all the things, so I felt really comfortable with them. I lost my mucus plug and had bloody show on June 8th. I was 40 weeks. That was my due date. My water broke that night at 11:00 PM. I had a small pop, so it was just a litte bit. I was laboring at home. Nothing really was picking up, but on June 9th, at 40+1, I went into the hospital around 3:00 PM. Labor started picking up pretty quickly after that. About an hour and a half later, my waters gushed everywhere which was really thrilling for me to experience the big gush. I was not very far along, though. My progress is just very slow, but they were not rushing me at all. They were like, “We'll stay patient. We will stay very patient. There is no rush. As long as baby is doing well, we'll just let you do your thing.” My doula was there. After my waters broke, my contractions started coupling on top of each other and getting very intense. They were quite long. I started feeling really lightheaded and dizzy. I tried to sit on the toilet and just felt like I was going to pass out. I threw up a few times. I knew it was time to get some pain relief. They offered the walking epidural option which I took at about 8:00 PM. Baby was doing great. I was really worried about getting the epidural again because I felt like that's what had caused the craziness before, but he was doing great. At 2:00 AM, he started not doing great. He wasn't tolerating the contractions well. I was like, “Oh, not again. What?” I was only 4 centimeters. I just knew that we needed to go in again. I didn't know why, but I was so sad. I didn't want another crash, so I did want to prevent another crash. I knew that if it was going to be a heart thing, I didn't want to mess with that. Especially knowing the signs of pain and coupling contractions and things like that, it just seemed like he was telling me that he needed to come. I consented to the OR and to the C-section. I was wheeled to the OR. I remember as I was being wheeled in, I was just thinking, “This is not what I want. This is not what I want. This is not what I want.” I was so sad. He was born about an hour later. I was so drowsy. I was so tired. I was not present at all. I did not feel strong enough to hold him. My husband held him. I briefly brushed his face. He was wearing his little hat and was swaddled, then they took him to the recovery room. The doula was not allowed in the OR. It was actually a miracle she was allowed at all because they had just lifted the doula ban the week before for COVID. I was like, “Okay, the baby will be in there with her.” I'm not sure why they wouldn't let the baby just stay with Sam, but it's okay. I needed his support. I was really happy that he was there. Closure took longer than usual. They said I had pretty thick adhesions, so I was just laying there trying everything to stay awake. I was fighting so hard. I remember reading words on the light and looking at the letters and just going over the letters in my mind and trying to stay awake. I was fighting so hard to stay awake. I finally got to hold him at 4:00 AM in the recovery room. It was still about an hour after he was born. I missed the golden hour again. I was so sad. I was so sad for a third time to miss it. That recovery was really hard. In the hospital, I was so heartbroken. The trauma this time really hit me emotionally and spiritually. It was physically a lot more traumatic on my body for whatever reason. I mean, just the sheer labor was so intense. My incision was black and blue and puffy. I couldn't walk normally and I didn't feel normal for 5 or 6 weeks, but I also feel like it's because I was so sad. I think how sad you are really does affect how you feel physically. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Paige: I do remember specifically too, my first shower there. My husband had to really help me walk over. I was so sticky from all of the sensors and monitors. He was so tenderly trying to help me wash them off. I was just sobbing. I was so sad. I felt so broken and so vulnerable. It was a beautiful time for my husband to be there and carry me because he knew how badly I wanted the VBAC that time and for him to just carry me through that. But going home, I went home to my in-laws' basement. It was dark. I didn't have a support village because it was COVID. COVID moms know what that was like. Anyway, ultimately, I did reach out to Meagan and Julie. That's when the CBAC group was started. I was like, “Is there any way we could start a CBAC support group where CBAC moms can connect?” You guys were so warm and welcoming. Immediately you were like, “Yes! Why hadn't we thought of that?” Julie, you were so gung-ho about that. I was able to connect to other moms through there which was so healing. Anyway, that was the third story. Then the time between three and four was really, really pivotal for me. The healing that I felt I needed before even thinking about trying to get pregnant was where I feel like this all really starts. When you don't get the birth that you hoped for or when you don't get a VBAC, you just feel embarrassed. You feel ashamed. You feel broken. You feel like your intuition doubted you. You feel dumb. I've seen many women comment how family members would be like, “Oh, I knew it wasn't going to happen for you.” It's hard. It's really hard. You feel very, very broken.I knew that I had to show up for myself and still give myself grace. For this birth, it was good for me because I was able to face not failure, but being wrong. I was able to face being wrong and show myself that I could still be there. Anyway, I started physically diving into healing through pelvic PT and doing a lot of scar adhesion work. The dolphin neurostimulation tools if you haven't heard about those are fantastic. I feel like they worked much better for me than scar massage. I wish I had a provider here now who would do it. I think maybe that would have helped this pregnancy and birth, but it helped my recovery so much.I started having really bad panic attacks and postpartum anxiety, so I went to talk therapy. I got on medication. I went to a chiropractor again. The thing that really, really helped my healing was joining a gym and falling in love with exercise again. I got into all of the things, the yoga, running, learning how to lift, and started really pushing my body again and trusting my body again. I didn't expect exercise to heal that relationship with my body, but I feel like it really did. I learned again that I am physically strong which was really, really nice. I started signing up for some races. I ran my first half marathon. I had a lot of emotional releases during yoga. There was one song that came on one time during a yoga practice. It said, “You can't rush your healing. Darkness has its teaching.” I loved that so much. I just started crying. I was just like, “Let it out.”Part of healing is welcoming the grief when it comes, processing it, and taking it a little bit of a time. It's such a process. You get little glimmers of understanding, but as you keep committing yourself to looking for that and looking for the understanding, it does come. I truly believe that. Anyway, life went on. There is a four-year gap in between my third and my fourth which I really needed. We moved to Korea in that time. We moved to Korea last June, and it's just been lovely. We knew that we wanted one more. I knew I was so happy with the prep and how vigorously I did it. I was proud of myself for that and I knew that I wanted to do it the same way.I knew that after everything I learned, even if it was going to be a C-section, I couldn't just show up to the hospital and have them take my baby. I knew too much. I was like, “I know that there are better ways. I know that providers practice differently from place to place. I know it's not all equal. I know every provider does things differently, even with C-sections.” I started watching videos, and I saw that even the way they performed their C-sections was not the same. I wanted to be really actively involved in how they practiced, and how I was going to be a part of it. My goals for this time were not necessarily VBAC or C-section. I never closed the door completely. I was like, “You never know. Maybe VBA3C, maybe that's my story. Who knows?” However, I did find the episode by Dr. Natalie Elphinstone. As I was transcribing that one, my fire for birth that I held felt for VBAC was coming to life again. That intuition was speaking to me, and I had not felt that fire in a long time. That was the first whisperings of, “You should try this. You should go for this.” The goals that I had for this baby were to be very intentional. I wanted the golden hour. I had to have the golden hour. I had to hold my baby first or within an hour. Please, oh my gosh. I carried so much guilt for not having that three times over. I also wanted to be treated like I mattered. I did not want to be part of a rotation. I wanted continuity of care. I did not want to feel like I was just being shuffled through a system. Whether it was a hospital or not, I knew that I wanted to feel special. Lo and behold, did I know how special I would feel at my sweet birth center. Okay, so with the intention thing, just the pieces of this birth story with number four started falling into place so specifically. I can't deny that spirituality was a big part of this because with number three, my prayers had been very, very specific. I knew that God knew what I wanted. I knew it. I knew that because I didn't get it, there was a specific reason why. That's the only thing I could cling to. As things specifically started falling into place, it started to confirm to me that this was my path and these were the reasons why the other things happened the way they did. But anyway, I got pregnant very quickly with this baby. It was the first time that it wasn't a total surprise which was really fun. I had been taking tests since I knew the day that I ovulated, and then I was just taking tests watching, watching, and watching. I was able to see the first faint line which was so fun. I had always wanted that. I had wanted that moment of, “Oh my gosh, I'm pregnant,” where before it was like, “What? I'm not quite ready,” but I was still excited. That was really fun for that. The Korea birth culture here is very intense. The C-section rate is 50-60%. There are constantly stories being shared on these local pregnancy pages of women just having the most traumatic experiences and my heart aches for them. It's very routine for doctors to suggest first-time moms to, “Go have a C-section. Your baby is big,” and not even trying to labor. Most of it is because there is a doctor's strike going on here. There is a limited number of providers. They are stressed. They don't allow husbands typically in the OR, and very routinely, they are under anesthesia. Then after birth, babies are typically taken away to nurseries, and then postpartum recovery is in an open bay type thing. Meagan: Like, combined? Paige: Exactly, yeah. Your C-section stays are typically about 8 days. I wanted to explore options. We have an Army hospital here that is pretty big and does provide labor and delivery services, but they're often maxed out so you're referred off post. I did not feel comfortable going to any of the places that they typically referred to just from stories I had heard. That's all it takes for me now. I just hear one story and I'm like, “Nope, no thank you.” I know my red flags very quickly now. I went to a tour at this birth center called Houm. It's spelled H-O-U-M. At 8 weeks, I went to go tour it. I noticed a lot of green flags, not red ones where I was just like, “Oh, I'm just going to take a note of that.” Some of the green flags from my tour as I walked in were how I felt right when you stepped off the elevator. It's this calm energy. The lighting is so beautiful. It's such a lovely set up right when you walk in. You take off your shoes because you are in Korea. You take off your shoes, then multiple staff members greeted me with a hug. That's when I met Dayana Harrison who I later ended up hiring as my doula, but she also served as my midwife. She is a student midwife working there right now. She took me on the tour. They have queen-sized beds in their labor rooms. The whole floor was dim and so quiet. It did not have a hospital vibe at all, but they do have an OR on site. I was like, “Oh, this is lovely.” They offer epidural. They have huge birthing tubs with the rope attached from the ceiling. They are so beautiful. Yeah, it's in each room. Then the OR on site does not feel like a hospital OR. It's smaller. They keep it warmer. It feels like– I don't know. It just had such a homey feeling. That's the best way I can describe it. Then some of the things I asked about, in their routine gentle Cesareans, moms routinely get skin-to-skin immediately. They have a little cut open in the curtain where baby is slid through right on your chest. They routinely would keep the placenta attached to the baby in the OR which is–Meagan: Almost not heard of. Paige: Since posting that video, I can't believe how many messages of, “How did you do that?” That's revolutionary in itself. That was a huge green flag where I was like, “Oh my gosh, what?” Typically, what is it? Why do they say you can't do that? Is it because the incision is open too long?Meagan: Yeah. They don't even allow delayed cord clamping most of the time. They just milk it because it's a major surgery. The more time the mom is exposed and open, the higher chance they have of things like infection. Once baby is out, they really want to wrap it up and finish it to be complete. Yeah. To actually leave a placenta attached to a baby is unheard of. It really is unheard of in a Cesarean. Paige: Yeah. So that was super awesome. Then they let you keep the baby. He encourages C-sections past 39 weeks. That's not a routine hard and stop final date. He encourages going into labor before saying that it's good for the baby. He encourages breastfeeding in the OR. The head OB, his name is Dr. Chung. He is also an IBCLC which I thought was so awesome. So he supports breastfeeding.Julie: Wait, wait, wait. Time out. The more I learn about this man, the more I love him. Paige: Did you not know that?!Julie: Oh my gosh. Meagan: I want to meet him. Julie: I want to put him in my pocket and take him with me to deliver every birth I ever go to ever. I love him. Paige: I've literally said the exact same thing, Julie. I wish I could just keep him with me forever. That's the thing. Throughout this whole process, I kept taking note of these green flags. I'm thankful for my other experiences because I don't think a lot of people recognize how green these flags really are. I was like, “Okay, the shoe's going to drop. The shoe's going to drop. There's something.” I'll keep going.Meagan: Can I mention too? You had Marco Polo'd me, “I'm on my way,” then you would leave, and you were like, “This is amazing.” You were just like, “This is right,” every single time. The more you went, the more it verified that you were in the right place. Paige: Yep, yeah. You just know. When you know, you know. During that appointment, he came specifically and talked to me three times. Three times. He shook my hand. I'm like, “Are you not busy? What? Three times, you have time to see someone who is just touring?” He only sees 15 patients. He is very VBAMC supportive and experienced with it. He supports vaginal breech birth. They do ECVs on-site. I didn't even bring up VBAC after three. I just mentioned that I had three C-sections, and he said something like, “Oh, do you want a VBAC? Do you want to try again?” I was like, “Oh, I mean, I don't know. I'm thinking about it.” Then, he made me cry. This was at the tour. He made me cry because he said, “I'm a different doctor because I listen to moms. I listen. They tell me how they want to birth. If you want a VBAC after three C-sections, I will support you. You can do it. You choose how you want your birth to go and I will worry about the bad.” He was like, “You don't need to worry.” I was like, “Oh my gosh,” and I started crying. I was like, “Okay, I'm going to go now.” I was not composed, and then he hugged me. I was like, “What? Who is this guy?” I didn't just jump over there. I did give the Army hospital a chance. I went to a couple of appointments there, and that was kind of all I needed to know for what I wanted. I'm so thankful they are a resource there. I'm thankful that they are here. But I did ask about their routine Cesarean practices and their VBAC practices. It was important to me to find a doctor who supported VBAC even if that wasn't what I was planning to go for. I still love VBAC so much. I think it's so beautiful and such an important option for women to have. I'm so passionate about it. I always will be. They didn't even humor the idea at all of VBAC after three. They were like, “Oh, no. You're going to have a C-section. Of course.” The idea was laughable. The C-sections only allowed one support person, no breastfeeding in the OR, no photographers. Arms are strapped down. I just was like, “Okay.” I was very gently asking questions, but then was like, “Uh-uh. Red, red, red flags.” My biggest piece of advice, and we say this over and over again, is to find a provider whose natural practices align with the things that you want. Julie: That is it. That is it so much. Sorry, I don't want to interrupt again, but let's put bold, italics, emphasis, and exclamation points on what you just said. Say it again. Say it again for the people in the back. Paige: Find that provider whose routine practices align as closely as possible with what you want. Julie: Preach, girl. Preach, girl. I love it. Paige: Because we're not meant to fight. You do not want your birth experience to be a place of fighting or stress. Julie is learning that I am a people pleaser. I'm not anything special. I did not stand my ground. I'm going to do this. I did not come blazing in. I found a provider who I felt very, very safe with, who I felt safe asking for this from, and he said yes. I knew that because his practices were so close to the MAC, he would be the most receptive. But there's a chance that he wouldn't have been, and he was. That's why ultimately it worked out because he was receptive. I couldn't have forced him to do it, but because he practices closely to it already, it wasn't as much of a push. If I tried to go to that Army hospital and introduce this idea, they'd just shut it down. Meagan: You know, that's what is so heartbreaking to me. Providers all over the world really just shut that down if it doesn't match their normal routine and their everyday thing. It's like, well, hold on. Let's listen. Why are people requesting this? Just like Dr. Natalie, she saw this and was like, “This is something that means something to people. Why don't we change the norm and create something different?” Providers, if you are listening, please try and make change in your area because it matters, and it doesn't have to be exactly how it's been. Paige is living proof of this. It just doesn't have to be that. But we can't make change if no one puts forth the effort or allows it. Paige: Dr. Natalie said that exactly. She said, “Let's make every birth the best possible version of that birth that it can be.” Meagan: Yes. Yes. Paige: She said, “If there's a way to make it better, why not? Why not?”Meagan: Why not? Because like it or not, birth impacts us. It sticks with us. You're now explaining four different stories. It's not something we just forget. We don't just walk away from these experiences. They stay with us. Now, we might process and are able to move forward in a different direction, but it's not like we forget, so why can't we make this change? It actually baffles me. Julie: Well, and the mode of delivery is the same. I really want to emphasize that. She has had four C-sections, and they were all very different. But the only one where she left walking out of it really feeling empowered is the last one where she chose a provider who aligned with what she desired for her birth, she had a say in her care, and she felt loved and supported the whole way. She felt like the staff cared about her needs.But also, time out. She didn't just feel like the staff cared about her needs. They did. They did actually, genuinely care about her needs and her experience. I feel like that's such a big difference. Meagan: Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. Sorry, Paige. You can continue. We got on a little soapbox. Paige: You're good.Julie: I feel like we're starting to tell the story before the story is told. Paige: No, it's great. We're getting close. I switched to them officially at 20 weeks. My first appointment was the anatomy scan. That's when I also proposed the idea of the MAC officially. After every ultrasound, he comes in, talks to you, looks at it, then you go into his office area where you just chat and ask any questions. That's just the routine setup of the appointments. I had this video prepared, and I was really nervous. It's scary. It is scary to ask your provider for something new and different. I had this video. It's on YouTube. It's by Olive Juice Photography. Everybody should go look at it. It's the birth of Betty Mae. It's the video that I watched over and over and over again because it's the only video I could find of the process from the beginning to the end including all of the prep and including how it was done. I was like, “I saw this online. I was wondering if you could watch it and tell me what you think.” That's how I presented it. It's a long video. It was like, 5 minutes. He just sat there patiently and watched. Then after, actually one thing he did say was, “I don't like how he's using forceps.” I was like, “Oh, green flag.” Then, he asked, “Is this what you want?” I said, “Yeah. I think it would be really special if it could happen.” Then, he said, “Then, we can do that.” Then, he thanked me for giving him the opportunity to grow and try something different. He said, “Will you email that video to me and any other resources?” I emailed Dr. Natalie, and she sent over a MAC PowerPoint that she had prepared of the procedures because from the episode, she was like, “Anybody interested doing this, reach out to me.” She is true to her word. She will do that. If you are interested and you want to contact her, she is very responsive. She sent me also her MAC hospital policy which I forwarded to him. I have to share what he said. He's so cute. In the email response, he said, “I watched the video you sent again. If necessary, we will contact Dr. Natalie to prepare for your perfect Cesarean delivery. Thank you so much for this great opportunity to serve you. I am excited to help your birth and confident it will be a great opportunity for further growth for us.” I was like, oh my gosh. Meagan: That literally just gave me the chills. Paige: I could not believe it. Dayana, who is also a student midwife there at home, told me that she had been planting seeds for maternal assist for a while. They had just been waiting for a mom to ask for it. That was also the time that I hired Julie. I was like, “Julie, that would be so fun if you could come out.” Then Julie was like, “Okay, let's do it.” Then I'm like, “Okay.” Then it happened, and Julie was just so brave to have the gumption to come out. Fun fact, she was previously stationed out here with the Army. It does seem like it all kind of worked out that Korea wasn't so out of touch for her, maybe. Julie: Yeah, no. It was really cool. You had mentioned it briefly, then I was like, “Oh, I wish I could make that work.” Then, I remember I was in the CBAC group. I was like, “Oh, I'm so excited for you,” or something, then you said something like, “I really wish you could come and document it. We would cover your travel out here and everything.” Then I was like, “Oh my gosh, really?” So then I talked to my husband about it. I was going to be gone for a while. He would have to hold down the fort and everything. I talked to him and he was like, “Yeah, I think that would be okay.” I was like, “Oh my gosh, Paige. My husband is fine with it. Let's do this.” I remember the day that you booked my flights and officially signed my contract and locked in and everything, then I told my husband and he was like, “Oh, this is really happening then?” I was like, “Nick, I gave you the change. I gave you the chance to eject. It's too late now.” He's been doing really great. He's a really great dad. The on-call life means he has to just take over the house at random moments. We are set up to where we can do that. It was just really funny. I'm so excited that we could make it work. Paige: This is my public thanks to Nick and all of Julie's children for allowing her to be here because it did require sacrifice on their part, truly. I'm just so thankful. I also found out, Dayana told me that she had been asked to prepare a whole presentation for the staff on MAC which she did. She prepared it for nurses, midwives, and anesthesia walking them through. The fact that she had that connection to Houm and that experience, she served as my doula but so much more. She was so much more as my advocate having that inside access to the staff. We scheduled a surgical rehearsal for 35 weeks. At 35 weeks, this was one of my favorite things. He personally was there to walk me through every step of what it would look like for my security, but I don't feel like I really needed it because I was very, very familiar, but for the comfort of the staff and everybody else too. I got to the appointment. My husband was able to be there with me on that one. The way it's set up– we'll post our video then you can visualize more of what the layout looks like. There's the prep room, then literally 10 steps across is the OR right there. In the prep room, they had a gown ready for me. They had the washing bins ready. So the way that it works, you go in. You put the gown on. You have the IV. They showed me where they would place the IV. Then you scrub up your hands. You wash with the sterile solution, and then they put gloves on top. This was the way that they did it. Then they walked me into the OR. They showed me how I would go sit up on the table, how I would receive my spinal through anesthesia, then they practiced laying me back down. They did everything step by step. It wasn't new to me. I've had C-sections before, so I knew, but it was just so sweet that they were so thorough. They showed me how they would insert the catheter. He showed me exactly how he would lay the drapes over my body. He showed me when the curtain would go up. The way they do it, you're not just watching the whole thing the whole time. You could, I guess, opt for that if you wanted to. You have the drape up, they do the initial incision, get the baby out up to his head, and then they drop the curtain. That's when they pull your arms down. The other thing too, the reason why they do strap your arms down is in case you impulsively reach down and touch your incision and breach the sterile field. That's the reason why arms being strapped down is even a thing. But for MAC, your arms are not strapped down obviously. They have somebody holding their hand on your hands which I don't think I even had. Looking back, I don't remember anybody touching my hands or my arms. But that wasn't an issue. It wasn't something that I impulsively wanted to do, to reach down there. Anyway, then the drape goes down. They guide your hands up and over to put your hands under his armpits. Come up. Bring your baby to your chest. The curtain goes back up during closure, and then they talked about how I'd be transferred back to the recovery room– not the recovery room. No recovery room. You go to the postpartum room immediately. I felt on such a high after that. It was just so beautiful how he did that. At 38 weeks, I had an ultrasound. They do ultrasounds at every appointment. I don't know that there is a perfect practice out there that aligns with absolutely everything you want. But they do routine ultrasounds. I wasn't really concerned about that, but they did flag something called kidney hydronephrosis. It's basically the swelling of the kidney. They had been monitoring that. It had presented late in the third trimester, but it was severe enough that they were starting to get really concerned about it. Basically, it can mean that there is an obstruction, and if it's really severe, it can mean that the baby needs to be evaluated within 48 hours of birth by a pediatric urologist which clearly they don't have on site. It was a whole thing. If it really is severe and there is an obstruction, then they need to do surgery really promptly to prevent kidney damage early on. That was the thing. He did suggest that I could deliver somewhere else, and then the baby would be able to be there and we would be together in the same facility. That's when I felt like the shoe dropped. I was like, “Why would he suggest that? He knows that I would not want to deliver anywhere else. Why would he even bring that up?” I was all a mess. I was alone at that appointment. I felt a little bombarded and ambushed. I was like, “This isn't going to happen. I'm not going to get it.” That night, Dayana called me. I was getting ready to reach out to her, but she called me. She was like, “I just wanted to check in.” I had emailed Dr. Chung a clarification email. I think that's really important too. If something doesn't sit well with you in your appointment, it's okay to follow up in an email just to clarify what happened. Can you lay out these options? Can you lay out what we went through? Can I have a record of the ultrasound and what you saw? Because then you're not just swirling these things in your mind. You're actually looking, then you can do your own research. I dove into research. I dove into studies. I compared the numbers that he gave me versus what I saw, and it all did align. She called me and she was like, “No, don't worry. He is comfortable moving forward. He thought that you would be concerned, so he wanted to present you with more options to deliver somewhere else, but he is very happy to deliver you here still and sticking with our plan. He does want to see you at a follow-up ultrasound at 39 weeks,” which I was comfortable with. I was like, “Sam, you've got to come with me. I can't go alone.” She promised that she would be there. That's another thing. When you have a team that you trust, make sure that you are supported, and it's not just you and your doctor. If there's something that doesn't sit well, it really helps to field it with other people not just in labor, even in your prenatal appointments or anything like that. If you feel like you need some extra support, it does really help to bring some people with you who you trust. So at 39 weeks, we all met as a team and asked lots of questions. We felt comfortable with a care plan moving forward. We ultimately decided that we would move forward with the C-section at 39+5 which would be Monday. I'm trying to think what day that was. Meagan: The 7th. Paige: Monday, the 7th. Meagan: That's what I had in my calendar. Paige: Monday, the 7th was the day. We talked about moving it up. All his colleagues were like, “No, you should deliver this baby now. What are you doing? You're crazy keeping her pregnant.” I was like, “I am comfortable waiting, and I have to wait for Julie, so it can't be until Friday. It can't be until Friday.” She gets in on Thursday. That was Wednesday, at 39 weeks. Thursday was 39 and 1.Julie was on the plane, and then that morning on Thursday, I lost my mucus plug at about 8:00 AM. I was like, “Oh, no.” I wasn't really having contractions or anything, so I was like, “Okay. We'll still make it until Monday. It's fine.” Then, Julie got in at about 7:00 PM. I started having some baby contractions. We were sitting around my kitchen table, and Julie was like, “Are you contracting right now?” I was like, “A little.” She was like, “Go take a bath.” Then, we went to bed. I took a bath, and then I went to bed. I was for sure just contracting. I was like, “But what about these logistics? What is going to happen?” Anyway, my childcare plan was going to be turned upside down and all of the things. I was stressed about the logistics. But then, I was woken up at about 10:00 PM by contractions. They were about 6-7 minutes apart, but they were definitely real. I thought they were prodromal, so I was just waiting for them to just go away. They started getting closer. They were close enough to about 4 minutes and sometimes 3. I was having more bloody show, so I was like, “These are kind of doing something.” The intensity increased. It got to the point where I couldn't lie down. I was on my hands and knees. I was standing up, bracing myself against the wall. I was trying to do different positions. Maybe it was just a positional thing. “Let me try to do flying cowgirl. Let me try to do Walcher's”. I was trying to do different positions to try to stop them. I tried to take a bath at 3:00 AM, and they weren't going away. I was like, “Okay, I can't do this. I can't risk it. We've got to go.” I woke up my husband. I was like, “Today's the day. He's just telling me that it's the day. It's time. I don't know why, but it's Friday. It's supposed to be.” At 4:00 AM, he packed his bags. At 5:00 AM, I felt so bad because Julie had just gotten in from this huge international flight. It was a 12-hour flight plus some because you had a connection. I was like, “Julie, we're going to go,” she was like, “Okay!” She was so excited. “Okay, let's go!”Julie: I wake up to a knock on the door, and they're all dressed and ready to go. I'm like, “Why did she not wake me up sooner? I could have supported you.” Paige: I felt so bad. Julie: Yeah. It was wild. It was so wild. I was ready. It was awesome. Paige: So at 5:00 AM, we left for the birth center. At 6:00 AM, we got there. I messaged my team. Dayana said she was on her way. They led me to my room which is just a beautiful suite. It's right next to the OR. They led me to my room. They said that the anesthesiologist would be ready at about 10:00 AM, so between then, I would be laboring. Dr. Chung came in, and he said, “You need to be prepared for a VBAC to happen. You might have this baby just right here.” It was so funny that he was supportive of that idea even. It was so cute. I labored. It was getting intense, but they weren't super close together. Dayana came. She jumped in, and she immediately just respected the space which was so beautiful. She started doing all of her– she's a Body Ready Method practitioner. She's done some training with Lynn Schulte and the Institute for Birth Healing, so she's very familiar with the specific way to give you comfort measures. She was so great. I felt so safe. We labored, and my husband gave me a beautiful blessing. She said the more beautiful prayer that really invited heaven into the space and made it so spiritual and special. We were playing music, then at 9:00 AM, the head midwife, her name is Joy, came in. She started the IV.Dr. Chung came in and walked me to the prep room. In our rehearsal, I was going to be scrubbing myself, but he just picked up my hands, and he started washing my hands and scrubbing my hands for me. It felt like such a selfless act getting ready to go into this procedure. It felt like he was so respectful, and then I even had a contraction during the washing. He stopped what he was doing and was so respectful of the space. It just felt so Christlike having him wash my hands going into it. Then we walked into the OR, and they got me ready for anesthesia. They put in the spinal, and then they laid me down. They did the pinprick test. They gave me a new gown that was sterile. I'm trying to think of what else. They inserted the catheter. I could kind of feel a little bit with the pinprick test, but the catheter insertion was just pressure, so I felt comfortable moving forward. They got started. We played music. They had ice ready for me on my face because I told them when I get nauseous or anxious, I tend to get a little lightheaded. They had ice ready for me. That was something I had requested, and that was so nice. They started the surgery, and it was very, very intense. I do want to be candid that it was probably my most painful surgery. I had to work through it with labor-coping stuff. I was vocal. I did mention that I was feeling pain. It got pretty intense. I don't know if in Korea in general– I know that they are a little bit more stingy about anesthesia, but it was okay. I don't feel like I was traumatized from that. The baby came out at about 10:24. That's when they say he was born. We were listening to music. I was vocalizing, then Dr. Chung says– what did he say? “Let's meet your baby,” or “Come grab your baby”, or something like that. They lowered the drape, and it was so fast. I bring the baby up onto my chest, and everything just melted away, and this instinctual, primal– all of these emotions I didn't know I had just poured out of me. I lost any sense of composure that I had. I was shrieking. In any other situation, I would have been so mortified, but that moment of not having it three times over, it was this release and this justification or this validation of finally having it. I just got to hold my baby. I was a little nervous about seeing a new baby for the first time without being swaddled and how they would be wet and slippery, and if that would freak me out a little bit, but I wasn't worried about that at all. I was just so happy that I had him and so relieved. During closure, that was also intense too. They put the curtain up. They pulled out the placenta. They put it in a bowl, and then they put it in a bag, and they rest it right there next to you. The cord was so lovely and so beautiful. There is something about a fresh, new cord. It is so awesome to see. I thought it was the coolest. I had my husband. I was squeezing his hand. Honestly, I felt like having my baby in my arms and holding my husband's hand was the best pain relief. In that moment, it was keeping me calm, keeping me steady, and getting me through the closure and the rest of the surgery.Then they transferred me to my postpartum room, and they just let us be there. They didn't push cutting the cord. Dayana gave me a placenta tour. I was like, “When do we cut the cord?” She was like, “Whenever you want.” It ended up being about 2 hours of us just enjoying it and talking about how cool it was. Yeah. She gave us a tour. I was able to wear gloves and touch it and go through it, then Sam was able to cut the cord for the first time which was so awesome. That's the gist of it. Meagan: Oh my goodness. I started crying. I've gotten chills. I have so many emotions for you just watching your video. I've literally watched it 10, maybe 15 times, and I can't wait to see Julie's entire thing that she caught. But I am just so– there are no words. I'm so happy for you. I'm so proud of you, and I've talked to you about this. I've Marco Polo'd you crying before where I can't explain it. I am so insanely proud of you and happy for you that you got this experience. Thinking about, “I've never seen a gooey baby. I've never had that opportunity. My husband has never been able to cut the cord,” and you were able to have this beautiful experience where you got to have all of those things. It took four babies to get there, but you got there. You got there because you put forth the work. You learned. You grew, and you were determined. I think as listeners, as you're listening, sometimes that's what it takes. It's really diving in, putting forth that effort, and finding what's true for you. I know it's hard, and I know not every provider out there is like Dr. Chung. He is a diamond in the rough from what it sounds like on so many levels. But they do exist. Again, going back to what you were saying, sometimes it just talks about Paige going in and saying, “Try to have an open mind. Look at this video. I would like for you to view this. Just take a look at it,” and left it in his hands. Sometimes, it just takes something so simple. But, oh my gosh. I can't believe it. We were Marco Poloing about episodes, you guys, before she was in labor. We were also Marco Poloing about social media posts. She was like, “I just don't want to say anything until it happens.” I think sometimes even then, I wonder if that's where that ultrasound had come in and maybe there was doubt. I don't know. It seems like maybe that aligns pretty well with the time that we were messaging and that. Maybe we were Marco Poloing or texting. I don't know. It's like, could this happen? Is it really going to happen? You want it to happen so bad, and then to see it unfold and to have it unfold in such raw beauty, oh my goodness. I cannot believe it.So in the OR, they let Julie in there, right?Paige: Oh, yeah. Dr. Chung is a photographer himself. Julie had asked me to ask him if she could move around or if she had to be stationary. He was so open to her walking anywhere and having free range of movement and having multiple sources of video and photo. Julie: Yeah, it was really cool. I want to speak a little bit to that side of things if that's okay for a minute. Being a birth photographer is kind of complicated and sometimes logistically crazy especially as the baby is being born because everybody has a job to do. Not every provider and nurse is supportive– maybe not supportive. Not every provider and nurse is respectful of the fact that I also have a job to do and that these parents are paying me not a small amount of money to come in and do this job. That is very important to them to have this birth documented in a special way.It can be tricky navigating that especially times ten when it comes to being in the operating room. I have about a 50% success rate of getting in the OR back home. Some hospitals are easier than others. It's always an honor and a privilege, I feel, when providers create a way for me to go in the OR because Cesarean birth is just as important, maybe even more important to have documented because it comes as a healing tool and a way to process the birth especially when most Cesareans are not planned. It was really cool to hear ahead of time about how supportive Dr. Chung was and how amazing he was going to be to let this happen. When we were in there, I don't think I've ever moved around an OR as much as I have in that OR. Providers will tell you, “Oh, you're not allowed in because the operating room is so small. Oh, the sterile field, we want to make sure you don't pass out when you're in there.” I think all of these excuses that people give are just regurgitating things. They don't want another person in the OR. It's just kind of dumb because that was the smallest OR that I have ever been in. I still was able to document it beautifully. I respected the sterile field. I wasn't in anybody's way. People were in my way which is fine because they had a way more important job to do to make sure Paige didn't bleed out and that the baby was born and that Paige's needs were met and things like that. I'm okay. I'm used to navigating around people in the space. I'm perfectly comfortable with that. It was so beautiful. I was down at her feet. Paige, I've actually been going through your images and choosing ones to include in your final gallery while you've been talking. I cannot wait to show you this. I have images of Dr. Chung pulling his head out, still images, of the head being born through the incision. It's like crowning shots. It is this beautiful image of this baby's head being born. Obviously, you've seen the one of his head all the way out. I just think it's so beautiful. I consider it such a privilege and such and honor to have as much freedom in that room. I was literally at her feet, Meagan, documenting while he was cutting her open the adhesions and all of those things. There is video. There were images. I have chills right now. And then as baby was born, I was able to move up by her shoulders and document that and her reaching down for baby. I have all of that. I think that is such one more reason why Dr. Chung is amazing. It is such a rare gem, a diamond in the rough, because Paige now has the documentation for this beautiful story, and it's just one more thing where we have work to do. We have lots of work to do, lots of work to do, and lots of advocacy with people asking for this. I just think it's so important and so cool. It's such a rare thing. I don't even think I would have been able to do all of this back in the States. Meagan: No. Julie: I just think it was so cool. I'm determined to get these images to you before I leave so we can look at them together. I cannot wait for you to see them. I can't. I'm just so excited. Paige: Well, it just makes me think of how often you've said, “If you don't know your options, you don't have any.” The purpose behind this, and why I felt I really did want to go for this option, and what was pulling me to it, is because I want to create options for women and to show them what's possible. That's why I wanted Julie to come. I wanted her. I told her specifically, “Document every step of the process so that women have more resources to see the ways we do it.” I didn't do it exactly like the Olive Juice photography video. There are little variances between it, and that's okay. But it was still so beautiful, so wonderful, and then also, I asked her to document the surgery itself because so much of it is going back and trying to process it in your mind while you're going through it. I'm so glad she did. We walked through it last night, just the moment when I was in the most pain. It was actually really wonderful to see what he was doing which I wasn't in the space to see at that time, but to go back and see, “Okay, that makes sense because he was maneuvering so much,” and to connect it. The connection piece was so valuable. For every Cesarean, I'm so passionate now that you need a doula. You need a midwife in there. You need a birth photographer. You need everybody in there. I knew it, but now, I'm so passionate that we need to advocate for ourselves just as much for planned Cesareans. Meagan: Absolutely. I still can't believe it. I'm so happy. I love this story so much. I believe everyone should hear it because like you said, we need to be educated so we can apply what we need. We don't know what we don't know. This is what we've heard for so many years, but we can know. We can know our options, and it does take us doing it most of the time. The medical world out there is trying sometimes. Sometimes, they are not trying as well. But they are trying. They are also capped in a lot of ways with resources and with time. There's just a lot that goes into it. So, dive in, you guys. Learn. Follow what you need. Follow what your heart is saying. If your heart is saying, “I want a different experience, it's okay to push for that different experience.” Paige: Yeah, definitely. I'll attach a lot of the resources that I used to help me in my prep. But I did just want to cap off by saying that I don't feel like I'm anything special. I am not a birth worker. I am not a nurse. I don't have a history of medical stuff. Dr. Chung was so cute. He was joking that I was a surgeon and getting ready to go do the surgery, but I've always been squeamish at blood and things like that. Don't feel like you don't want to go for it because you're afraid that it will be a scary thing. It is such a natural, beautiful thing. It doesn't feel as medical as it might seem. And even if you are scared, I was scared. It's okay to do it scared if you think that it might be something beautiful and if your heart is, like Meagan said, calling you to it. We're just moms, and moms are powerful, and that's enough. Meagan: I love that. Julie: I love that. I think it's really important. Paige, first of all, you are special, and this is why. Not everybo

In this episode, Dr. Jamie Lo welcomes Dr. Sarah Osmundson to discuss SMFM Consult #71, focusing on the management of previable and periviable preterm prelabor rupture of membranes (PPROM). Together, they delve into key considerations for patient counseling, the challenges of defining viability across different institutions and regions, and the maternal and neonatal outcomes linked to various management strategies. Dr. Osmundson highlights the critical role of informed consent, the need to align care with patient values, and opportunities to address gaps in research through collaborative efforts. This episode unpacks the complexities of managing PPROM and provides valuable insights for maternal-fetal medicine providers navigating these nuanced and sensitive conversations. Click here for the full episode transcript.  Additional Resources -         SMFM Consult Series #71 -         SMFM Clinical Webinar Series: Management of Previable and Periviable Preterm Prelabor Rupture of Membranes -         Maternal morbidity after preterm premature rupture of membranes at

Send us a textIf there is one best place to begin when it comes to optimizing our fertility, it is with food, and who better to bring us the lowdown on what we do and don't need for fertility optimization than Lily Nichols, RDN, the modern-day-author and guru of all things related to food and pregnancy. In today's episode, she delivers crucial information about how our modern food practices, particularly the standard American diet, set us up for sub-optimal fertility and contribute to the most common complications of pregnancy including pre-eclampsia, pre-term labor, PPROM, and more. She opens our eyes to the significant problems with folic acid in our food sources, prenatal vitamins, and birth control, and we get into the nitty-gritty on the difference between folic acid and folate. Additionally, she explains which macro- and micronutrients we need to best support the female body for conception. If optimizing fertility is on your mind, this is a must-listen, must-share episode!Lily Nichols on Folate:  Why it's Superior to Folic Acid for Pregnancy (even if you don't have MTHFR)Lily Nichols on InstagramAnd check out our episodes with Lily Nichols:#203 | Pre-eclampsia: Diet, Nutrition and the Influence of Sperm with Lily Nichols#155 | Gestational Diabetes Prevention and Management with Author Lily Nichols, RDN, CDE**********Our sponsors:Silverette Nursing Cups -- Soothe and heal sore nipples with 925 silver nursing cups.Postpartum Soothe -- Herbs and padsicles to heal and comfort.Needed -- Our favorite nutritional products for before, during, and after pregnancy.Use promo code: DOWNTOBIRTH for all sponsors.Connect with us on Patreon for our exclusive content.Email Contact@DownToBirthShow.comInstagram @downtobirthshowCall us at 802-GET-DOWN Connect with us on Patreon for our exclusive content.Email Contact@DownToBirthShow.comInstagram @downtobirthshowCall us at 802-GET-DOWN Work with Cynthia: 203-952-7299 HypnoBirthingCT.com Work with Trisha: 734-649-6294 Please remember we don't provide medical advice. Speak to your licensed medical provider for all your healthcare matters.

Send us a textHow does a mother endure the stress of a high-risk pregnancy and the NICU during the early days of the pandemic? Join us as Ashley Martin from Southern Missouri bravely shares her incredible journey, from the initial excitement of a planned pregnancy to the harrowing moments of dealing with complications like a subchorionic hemorrhage and a diagnosis of PPROM and incompetent cervix. Ashley's candid storytelling sheds light on the overwhelming emotions of facing her daughter's premature birth at just 24 weeks and four days, and how she transitioned her experience into creating the NICU Notebook to support other families.The postpartum experience can be particularly challenging when your baby is in the NICU. Ashley opens up about the pain of being in a postpartum ward without her newborn, the isolation of pumping breast milk without her baby nearby, and coping with the stress of hearing other newborns crying when she couldn't comfort her own. We discuss the emotional toll and the unique challenges of postpartum discharge when your baby remains in the NICU, highlighting the need for hospitals to adopt more sensitive, NICU-informed postpartum care practices. Ashley's heartfelt reflections offer a raw and powerful narrative of resilience.Navigating the NICU's medical complexities and celebrating unique milestones amidst the pandemic presents its own set of challenges. In this episode, we explore car seat safety for premature babies, the logistical and emotional hurdles of NICU life, and the importance of being informed about NICU resources. Ashley shares her tips and advice for other parents in similar situations, making this episode not just a story of struggle, but one of hope, practical wisdom, and unwavering strength. Whether you are a new parent, have experience with the NICU, or simply want to hear an inspiring story, Ashley's journey offers valuable insights and heartfelt moments that resonate deeply.Connect with Ashley on instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thenicunotebookco/Check out The NICU Notebook here: https://thenicunotebook.com/welcome Join the Bump & Beyond Online Community for moms & moms-to-be! Coaching offerKelly Hof: Labor Nurse + Birth CoachBasically, I'm your birth bestie! With me as your coach, you will tell fear to take a hike!Support the showConnect with Kelly Hof at kellyhof.comMedical Disclaimer:This podcast is intended as a safe space for women to share their birth experiences. It is not intended to provide medical advice. Each woman's medical course of action is individual and may not appropriately transfer to another similar situation. Please speak to your medical provider before making any medical decisions. Additionally, it is important to keep in mind that evidence based practice evolves as our knowledge of science improves. To the best of my ability I will attempt to present the most current ACOG and AWHONN recommendations at the time the podcast is recorded, but that may not necessarily reflect the best practices at the time the podcast is heard. Additionally, guests sharing their stories have the right to autonomy in their medical decisions, and may share their choice to go against current practice recommendations. I intend to hold space for people to share their decisions. I will attempt to share the current recommendations so that my audience is informed, but it is up to each individual to choose what is best for them.

If you need to hear a positive NICU breastfeeding story, this is it! Sarah shares her experience with premature prelabour rupture of membranes (PPROM) and the NICU journey that followed the birth of her baby at 32 weeks. She started antenatal expressing in labour and continued hand-expressing in the days after before switching to a hospital-grade pump. She had plenty of milk, triple-fed and used a nipple-shield alongside navigating an oversupply (she could pump 400ml in a single session!). She saw a variety of lactation consultants in the first few months and emphasises how important it is to find the right person for you who also has the right level of expertise for your situation. ___________ Today's episode is brought to you by Kiwi.co. I must confess I'm not much of a crafty mum but Kiwi Co's panda crate has been the best educational investment for Ottie. KiwiCo Panda Crate is a bimonthly subscription for babies ages 0-24 months. We receive a subscription box filled with playful, open-ended activities backed by research and designed especially for naturally curious and creative babies and toddlers. KiwiCo Panda Crate products are not only safe and of high quality, but also age-appropriate and supportive of your baby's growth. I'm a big fan of quality activities that create the opportunity for play-based learning and Kiwi Co delivers hands-on projects that get the whole family involved. Whether you have a brand-new baby or a trailblazing toddler, the Panda Crate is perfect for your little one's developing brain. Unlock brain-building play with KiwiCo Panda Crate! Get 20% off your first crate with code BIRTHSTORIESSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Unexpected Journey: Understanding and Navigating PPROM Life throws curveballs, and sometimes, those curveballs come in the form of these little letters: PPROM. For those unfamiliar, PPROM stands for Preterm Premature Rupture of Membranes, a medical term that sounds as serious as it is. In plain English, it means that the water breaks too early—before 37 weeks of pregnancy and often long before anyone is ready. What Is PPROM? Preterm Premature Rupture of Membranes, or PPROM, is a condition that affects roughly 3% of pregnancies, yet it accounts for nearly one-third of all preterm births. It occurs when the amniotic sac, which surrounds and protects the baby in the womb, breaks open before 37 weeks of pregnancy and before the onset of labor. This rupture can lead to significant complications, making it a critical condition to recognize and manage promptly. What Causes PPROM? The exact cause of PPROM is often unclear, but several factors can increase the risk. Infections of the reproductive tract, such as bacterial vaginosis, are a common cause. Other risk factors include a history of PPROM in a previous pregnancy, cervical insufficiency, multiple pregnancies (such as twins or triplets), and lifestyle factors like smoking. In some cases, the condition may occur without any identifiable risk factors, which makes it all the more important for expectant mothers to be vigilant about their health and prenatal care. Signs and Symptoms Recognizing the signs of PPROM is crucial for early intervention. The most common symptom is a sudden gush or a steady leak of fluid from the vagina, indicating that the amniotic sac has ruptured. Other symptoms may include increased vaginal discharge, a sensation of wetness in the underwear that doesn't dry, or a trickling of fluid that may come and go. Some women may also experience pelvic pressure or mild cramping. If you notice any of these signs, it's essential to contact your healthcare provider immediately. Diagnosis and Management If PPROM is suspected, your healthcare provider will likely perform a physical examination and order tests to confirm the diagnosis. This may include testing the vaginal fluid for amniotic fluid, ultrasound to assess the amount of amniotic fluid around the baby, and checking for signs of infection. Once diagnosed, the management of PPROM depends on several factors, including the gestational age of the pregnancy, the presence of infection, and the health of the mother and baby. If the pregnancy is near term (after 34 weeks), labor may be induced to reduce the risk of complications. If the pregnancy is earlier, the goal is often to prolong the pregnancy while minimizing risks. This may involve hospitalization, administration of antibiotics to prevent infection, corticosteroids to speed up the baby's lung development, and careful monitoring of both mother and baby. Potential Complications PPROM can lead to several complications, primarily due to preterm birth. Babies born prematurely may face challenges such as respiratory distress syndrome, infections, and developmental delays. Additionally, the longer the membranes remain ruptured, the higher the risk of infection for both the mother and the baby. Chorioamnionitis, an infection of the amniotic sac, is a serious complication that requires immediate medical treatment. Emotional Impact and Support The diagnosis of PPROM can be an emotionally challenging experience for expectant mothers and their families. Anxiety about the health of the baby, uncertainty about the outcome, and the potential for an extended hospital stay can all contribute to significant stress. It's important to seek emotional support, whether through counseling, support groups, or talking with other mothers who have experienced PPROM. Your healthcare team can also provide resources and guidance to help you navigate this difficult time. Outlook  While PPROM is a serious condition, advances in prenatal and neonatal care have significantly improved outcomes for both mothers and babies. Early recognition and appropriate management are key to minimizing risks and ensuring the best possible outcome. If you're pregnant and have concerns about PPROM, don't hesitate to discuss them with your healthcare provider. Being informed and proactive about your health is the best way to safeguard the well-being of both you and your baby.   Your feedback is essential to us! We would love to hear from you. Please consider leaving us a review on your podcast platform or sending us an email at info@maternalresources.org. Your input helps us tailor our content to better serve the needs of our listeners. For additional resources and information, be sure to visit our website at Maternal Resources: https://www.maternalresources.org/. You can also connect with us on our social channels to stay up-to-date with the latest news, episodes, and community engagement: Twitter: https://twitter.com/integrativeob YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/maternalresources Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/integrativeobgyn/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/IntegrativeOB Thank you for being part of our community, and until next time, let's continue to support, uplift, and celebrate the incredible journey of working moms and parenthood. Together, we can create a more equitable and nurturing world for all.

Candida in women is being right? Afterall, vulvovaginal candidiasis during pregnancy is common. Candida species may be isolated from the vagina of 15 %-21% of nonpregnant women; this rate increases to 30% during pregnancy. While it is generally benign and isolated to the vagina clinically, some Candida species have the capacity to be troublemakers. C. Glabrata has the potential to be a bad player, with the possibility of invasive disease. Candida IAI is rare but can lead to neonatal infection, high mortality, preterm prelabor rupture of membranes, and childhood neurodevelopmental impairment. The most prevalent predisposing condition is preterm prelabor rupture of membranes, followed by intrauterine pregnancy with a retained intrauterine contraceptive device, cervical cerclage, diabetes in pregnancy, and pregnancy after in vitro fertilization. Preterm labor is the most common symptom with Candida IAI, and only 13% of cases involved fever. Case reports have also associated C. Glabrata with third trimester stillbirth. Although case reports have documented this since the 1980s, this is still an evolving diagnosis as awareness of the condition increases. Nonetheless, the clinical features of Candida IAI are not well understood, and best management of the condition is unclear. In June 2024, Candida Glabrata was called a “global priority pathogens”. In this episode, we will review this rare but very real clinical conundrum. One of our podcast family members actually managed a patient, s/p IVF, with periviable PPROM found to have Candida Glabrata fungemia. How is this possible? Shall we treat Candida in the urine? We will discuss this in this episode.

Approximately 0.5% of all births occur before the 3rd trimester of pregnancy, and very early deliveries result in the majority of neonatal deaths and more than 40% of infant deaths. Preterm prelabor rupture of membranes (PPROM) is a known risk factor for preterm birth and is responsible for 30–40% of preterm deliveries. While PROM occurs around 8% of all (term) pregnancies, PPROM occurs around 1% of the time. Periviable birth is delivery occurring from 20 0/7 weeks to 25 6/7 weeks of gestation. Women who experience PPROM before 27 weeks have a 10% risk of early PPROM and a 35% risk of preterm delivery in a subsequent pregnancy. Despite improvements in perinatal and neonatal care, infants born at

In this mailbag episode of Healthful Woman, Dr. Nathan Fox and Dr. Helen Feltovich answer your top questions. They address questions regarding bilobed placenta, appropriate activity levels for someone with a history of PPROM, whether an MFM doctor is needed following IVF, and more.

In this powerful episode of The Golden Hour Birth Podcast, we welcome Shayla, a brave mother who shares her transformative journey of facing preterm premature rupture of membranes (PPROM) during her pregnancy. Shayla's story takes us through the unexpected challenges of delivering her daughter at 30 weeks, navigating a 48-day NICU stay, and advocating for her premature baby.Throughout the episode, Shayla openly discusses the importance of self-care, finding support, and trusting your instincts when faced with the overwhelming experience of having a preemie in the NICU. She shares valuable insights on dealing with the emotional ups and downs, the joy of seeing her daughter grow stronger each day, and the power of sharing her story to help other NICU parents.Shayla's journey is a testament to the resilience and strength of mothers who encounter unexpected complications during pregnancy and birth. Her story offers hope, guidance, and a reminder that even in the most challenging situations, it is possible to have a healthy, thriving child.Join us as we dive into Shayla's inspiring story and learn how to navigate the NICU journey with courage and grace. This episode is a must-listen for any parent who has experienced preterm labor, PPROM, or has a baby in the NICU, as well as anyone seeking to support a loved one through a similar experience.To sign up for our newsletter visit our website and blog: www.goldenhourbirthpodcast.comFollow Liz on Instagram here and Natalie hereFollow us on Facebook here.

In today's episode I speak with a woman who was very much caught off guard by a condition called PPROM--preterm premature rupture of membranes when she was 22 weeks along. She talks about how she managed all the twists and turns of her experience, and despite all the hard things that happened, many things made her feel lucky. We also hear from an OB/scientist who is working on a test that can be used to predict premature birth, among other things, long before it arrives.  JAMA article about NICU policyhttps://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2815359Find Dr. Carl Weiner's work here: https://www.creighton.edu/campus-directory/weiner-carl-p

Cesareans can be peaceful, beautiful, and so healing. Though Alexis didn't have the VBAC she planned for, she still had the euphoric birth she dreamed of. Alexis unexpectedly experienced PPROM and preeclampsia at 36 weeks with her first baby. Trying to labor and push under the effects of magnesium and all of the other interventions was incredibly exhausting. When baby started having decels, she knew it was time for the Cesarean. After a rough NICU stay and having to exclusively pump, Alexis knew she needed to be proactive about healing from her birth PTSD. She went to EMDR therapy and found the healing her heart needed. Alexis shares all of the ways her second birth was different from the first. She went into labor spontaneously. She progressed quickly and felt strong. But when baby flipped breech mid-labor, Alexis knew it was time for another Cesarean. Her team took their time honoring every wish Alexis had and truly gave her the birth of her dreams!How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details 02:05 Review of the Week05:29 Alexis' first pregnancy during COVID09:41 PPROM and preeclampsia 13:27 Pushing turned emergent Cesarean16:54 NICU stay and exclusive pumping20:45 EMDR therapy and postpartum healing 22:24 Second pregnancy26:21 Beginning of labor29:47 A picture-perfect labor31:26 Baby flipping breech and going for a C-section38:03 The game changer40:56 A euphoric birth43:45 Ways to have a gentle Cesarean46:36 Music, skin-to-skin, clear drapes, mirrors, conversation, and maternal-assisted Cesareans50:32 Vaginal seeding, advocacy, and backward dilation52:29 Swelling in pregnancy and nutritionMeagan: Hello, hello everybody. Today's episode is one that I am actually really excited to hear and share. I think a lot of the time when we are listening to The VBAC Link, we are looking for empowering VBAC stories, positive VBAC stories, and sometimes when we are sharing these stories, it is accompanied by traumatic Cesareans. We know that through all of these stories, I have personal experiences that a lot of these Cesareans are traumatic, and a lot of the time they are traumatic because they are undesired or they are pushed really hard or people feel like they are backed in a corner or so many interventions come into play that they happen in a traumatic manner. But today's story is going to talk a little bit about how Cesarean doesn't have to be traumatic and it can be peaceful. I relate personally to it because my second C-section, I didn't want actually. I didn't want it at all. It wasn't what I planned on, but I still found so much healing through that birth and I think that in a lot of ways, it shifted my mindset of how to view Cesarean. I also want to recognize that our community doesn't always want a VBAC, right? We are here learning about the options for birth after Cesarean but that doesn't mean we only want VBAC so I'm excited to share this story today for everybody, especially for those who are unsure of what to do or want to maybe go the Cesarean route but want to have maybe a better experience than their last Cesarean. We're going to talk about how to have a peaceful Cesarean. We have our friend, Alexis, with us today going to be sharing her peaceful journey with you. 02:05 Review of the Week But of course, we have a Review of the Week, so I want to dive into that and then turn the time over to her. This is from Apple Podcasts and it says lilylalalala. Lots of la la la. It says, “Inspiring and uplifting.” It says, “I first found this podcast in 2020 in the depths of the postpartum after a very traumatic, unplanned Cesarean with my first baby. I listened to every single episode as I struggled to process what had happened to me. I finally gathered up the courage to seek help for postpartum PTSD that I was experiencing. “This podcast is a treasure trove for inspiring stories which helped me regain confidence in my body to have a beautiful VBAC with my second baby last year. Thank you for being such a huge part of my healing journey.” I feel like so often, we hear little things like, “Oh, I loved hearing it” or “That was inspirational” or “That helped me learn the knowledge” but I love hearing that it was a part of the healing journey. It healed. That is so amazing. Thank you so much lilylalalala for sharing your review. If you haven't yet, you guys, we would love your review on the podcast. You can review our Instagram or our Facebook community. Give us a review of The VBAC Link. You can leave your review at Google. You can just Google “The VBAC Link” and leave a review there. You can leave a review on the Apple Podcasts. I'm pretty sure you can on Google Play. Or guess what? You can even email us at info@thevbaclink.com subject “Review” and leave us your review there. 05:29 Alexis' first pregnancy during COVIDMeagan: Okay. I am so excited for you to share with us today. Remind me. Okay, so we are going to be talking about preeclampsia, EMDR therapy which I think is something that is super powerful. We are going to be talking about repeat Cesarean and it can be better. Yeah. Anything else that you're like, “This is what my story is going to touch on?” Alexis: NICU time also. We had some NICU time. That was a big part of my postpartum experience. Yeah. Meagan: Okay. Yes. Okay, well without further ado, I would love to turn the time over to you to share your story. Alexis: Thank you. Yeah. There is a lot that goes into this story, a lot of different factors that made my first experience really hard, but I got to learn so much through it and I've been able to help a lot of other friends and family just through my experience so I'm super excited to share my story with everybody. Meagan: Can you remind us where you are at as well? Where you are located? Alexis: Yes, Joplin, Missouri. Meagan: Missouri. Alexis: Yep, so southwest Missouri. We are originally from Oklahoma City. My husband and I have lived here for six or seven years now and we call it home. Yeah. We got married in 2017 and we were about ready to have a baby around this time the pandemic hit so fun timing there. I'm sure a lot of mamas can relate to that. I think that's a lot of our story. We got pregnant at the end of 2020. Things were kind of normalizing but not really medically. I mean, I never saw my OB's face. We were all wearing masks. My husband couldn't come to our first appointment because the regulations were still iffy on that. I Facetimed him to hear the heartbeat which was so sad for our first pregnancy.But as things kind of went on, the rules lessened a little bit, but still, it was COVID. We got pregnant really easily. We were so blessed for that experience. For the most part, my pregnancy was really healthy. I did have a lot of nausea and morning sickness. That kind of lasted the whole pregnancy and it probably was the reason that my nutrition was so terrible. Nothing sounded good. All I really wanted was french fries so I could never– the smell of our gas oven made me gag so cooking really wasn't happening. Meagan: You're not alone and that's one of the reasons why we talk about Needed, our partnership, because there are so many of us who go through this morning sickness and the smell of anything is just barf so we're not getting those nutrients, right? So we've got to try to get them in other ways because we're not getting them through food because we can't. Alexis: We can't, yeah. That is totally me. So yeah. My diet was terrible and I didn't know at the time. Of course, everyone says to eat healthier and a lot of protein, but I'm already not a good eater of protein, and certainly not when I am nauseous, so yeah. My diet was a big factor. I had pretty rapid weight gain and I'm a petite person so that was not normal for me. My midwife really kept an eye on that, but I was still doing CrossFit my whole entire pregnancy somehow. I felt good enough to do that, but yeah. I was probably just wearing my body down. I was not eating well and working out really hard. What's funny is I was working out because it is proven to decrease your chances of getting preeclampsia and that didn't happen. Meagan: Which ended up happening? Alexis: Yeah. I was like, “I'm going to be so strong. This birth is going to be so easy. I'm just going to squat down on the floor and pop this baby out, no problem.” Meagan: I love your confidence, though. That is important in any birth. The confidence in your body's ability is wonderful. Alexis: For sure. I think that because I was working out so hard, maybe my pelvic floor is tighter. I'll get into all of that. Anyway, that was the pregnancy. Everything was good and healthy. I didn't have any other issues. 09:41 PPROM and preeclampsia But around 30 weeks, I started swelling really badly. It was a summer pregnancy, so no one really thought anything of it. I knew it was unusual for me. It was a lot of swelling. My midwife was keeping an eye on it. I never had high blood pressure and no protein in my urine. There were no markers and technically, I think according to what ACOG says, swelling isn't a red flag necessarily for preeclampsia. I think they won't diagnose you unless, of course, it's blood pressure and protein. No one was worried about it. Yeah. We were just trucking along. Everything is good, just extremely swollen. My husband travels for work all of the time during the summer so one night, he had gotten back that day and I was about 36 weeks on the dot. He got back that day from California and I woke up in the night to go to the bathroom and sit up in bed and I felt a little bit of a gush. I was like, “That's weird.” I get up and go to the bathroom. Toilet paper is a little bit pink, watery-tinged so I kind of knew immediately. It smelled different. I knew something was up. I'm calling for my husband to come in there. He is very confused. At 36 weeks, we did not expect that. The chances of your water breaking are less than 10% or something? Meagan: They say 10% or less, yeah, especially before labor begins. You had PPROM and then there is PROM so premature rupture of membranes, PROM, and then premature birth. Alexis: Yeah, so never did I ever think that my water would break and that would be the start of my labor. I knew those facts and I had done a lot of research. I was really well-educated before I had my son. I just– we are all really good birthers and really good parents before we do it. So yeah. My water breaks. I call the midwife. It was my midwife on call which gave me a lot of reassurance too and she just said, “Go ahead and come in since your water broke. It sounds like that's exactly what happened.” Looking back now, that was such a God thing because my plan was that I wanted to go unmedicated. I planned on laboring at home for as long as possible, but my water breaking just messed up my mind and shifted all of my plans. That wasn't a part of my plan, so I was like, “Oh, okay. I'll go in. Sure.” I didn't think twice about it. When we arrived at the hospital, I felt fine. I had no headaches. I had no vision changes. I felt fine. My blood pressure was I think 200/110. It was insanely high. It was so bad. The nurse was like, “Oh, maybe you're just excited. We'll retake it.” We retook it. It was still crazy high and really dangerous. They started the magnesium drip and for any of you girlies who have ever done that, it is a nightmare. Meagan: Yuck. Alexis: I felt terrible. It makes you feel like you have the flu. I threw up the whole labor. I just was seeing double so anytime a doctor or nurse would come in, I would have to cover up one eye to be able to look at them because I couldn't see straight. I basically could not get out of bed. We had to do an epidural immediately to drop that blood pressure so I was totally bed-bound. The nurses were super helpful with moving me around, so I basically was just side to side on a peanut ball for 20 hours. I had felt some contractions leading up as we were driving to the hospital, but nothing super strong. After a while, my midwife suggested some Pitocin which wasn't a part of my plan. Again, I wanted to go unmedicated. I wanted to have a super crunchy, awesome birth and I have now had every medication under the sun. 13:27 Pushing turned emergent CesareanAlexis: We start some Pitocin. That gets some contractions going. I didn't mention this. I arrived, I think at a 3 or a 4 when we got to the hospital so not a bad place to start at 36 weeks especially. But yeah, we go through laboring in bed, on my back, on my side. Of course, feeling the pains of labor and contractions in addition to magnesium just felt terrible. I didn't do the research about positions or what I should be doing. I didn't have a doula so that's a big part of it too. But I do progress to 10. Things kind of move along over these 20 hours and we start pushing. I could tell you on that first push, I had the thought, “I need to have a C-section.” I was so exhausted before I really even began pushing just from being awake for 20 hours. That was such an exhausting, long, hard labor. I could not. I had no energy left. The midwife that was there tried a lot of different pushing positions. We did tug of war. I actually got on my hands and knees. She was really great about helping me with pushing, but I had no gas in the tank. I was so exhausted. I don't know what my son's position was either. I don't know how high he was. No one ever told me what station he was at. I remember thinking, “Is station just a silly thing people say on Instagram and it's not real?” Because no nurses have mentioned his station. Should I ask? I didn't want to feel stupid. Ask all of the questions. It is your birth. Meagan: 100%. Alexis: Ask. If you are wondering, ask. It's your body. I don't know why I felt afraid to ask what station or what my dilation was all of the time when they would check me. They just didn't tell me which was really weird. I pushed for two hours in every position under the sun and eventually, he started to have some heart decels so the OB on call rushed in pretty quickly. He told me it was time to go to a C-section. I, like I said, was kind of ready for it at this point. It was not my plan, but I wasn't going to put my baby at risk so I was like, “Okay. Let's do it.” We go back to a pretty urgent C-section. This was all also, perhaps more traumatic for my husband. I was so out of it with all of the medication and so tired and you are already in labor land anyway, so you don't remember it all. He relayed this all to me later and he was way more affected by it and that's such a big part of our story too is him. He's left in a room alone. They take me back. He does get to come in. I didn't have to be put under or anything, but that's got to be so scary as a spouse. You hear that things are dangerous. They take you out and now you're just waiting. Meagan: Yep, having no idea what's going on. Alexis: Yeah, he had no idea if I was okay or if the baby was okay. The C-section itself was actually fine. Everything went well. I was just loopy and out of it from everything I had been on so I don't remember it that well, but when they got my son out, his APGAR was a 2. He was not doing great. They had to do some resuscitation so that was just scary. As he came out just not really responding, but he did start to cry. His APGAR came up on that second check and everything was fine at that point. We also didn't find out gender so what a way to find out your gender was that moment. We were so scared. It was like, “That's great. He's a boy. We don't care.” We just wanted him to be okay. 16:54 NICU stay and exclusive pumpingAlexis: Yeah. They get him in a good spot breathing and crying. All is well. I did fine. The C-section was not– that wasn't the traumatic part for me. I got closed up. I don't remember honestly anything after this point. I don't know if I fell asleep. Maybe it was just blocked out of my mind, but we eventually got back to our room. They take my son to the nursery and I don't remember anyone asking us about that. My husband doesn't either. I'm sure I was not in a good place. My blood pressure was still through the roof. It wasn't a great time for skin-to-skin. I understand that, but looking back, it's just really sad that I didn't really see him. I didn't meet him then for two days after. My blood pressure was so high, I couldn't get out of bed from the morning after he was born until about 11:00 at night. Around 6:00 AM, his pediatrician came in and his blood sugar was low so he had to be sent to the NICU. Now we are in separate jails across the hall from each other because he was in the NICU. They wouldn't let me get out of bed because my blood pressure was just not controlled. It was so bad. So I didn't meet my son for two days. That's kind of where– Meagan: I'm so sorry. Alexis: –the trauma. Labor was traumatic. The C-section was fine and then postpartum was really traumatic as well. That's kind of my story. Eventually, my blood pressure starts to respond to medication and I'm able to go meet him, but seeing your baby hooked up to cords and a feeding tube is awful. It's terrible. That was really his only issue though. He didn't have any breathing problems, thank goodness as a 36-weeker. His only issue was blood sugar and feeding. He was just a sleepy guy. He was not taking the bottle. He wasn't really vigorous at the breast. We had lactation consultants come in, but it wasn't super helpful when you're in the tizzy of NICU. The NICU is not set up for breastfeeding success. Meagan: It's not. Alexis: You're on a 3-hour schedule. You don't feed on demand. You need to measure how long and how much they are eating. That is not how breastfeeding works. We feed on demand. We do skin-to-skin. I just didn't know at the time. I was like, “Oh, every three hours. Okay.” I'm pumping. I didn't nurse him a ton in the NICU just because it wore him out so much. It's a lot of work to breastfeed so we were like, “If you can take a bottle and we can get out of here faster, do it.” So I was pumping. Eventually, after eight days, we were able to bust out of there. Feeding was the only thing he had to get over. When we went home, I was still pumping. I would offer the breast, but I was so unsure of it and so overwhelmed with it all. I ended up just exclusively pumping because now, looking back, I can see postpartum anxiety 100%. I was afraid if he wasn't eating enough, they would stick him back in the NICU which would not have happened. They would have done other things before that. It was not emergent, but that is what anxiety tells you. Meagan: I was going to say that anxiety tells you things that aren't necessarily true. Alexis: Exactly. Meagan: We are in a state where that's what we believe. Alexis: Exactly. My husband and I were both so overwhelmed and traumatized from the NICU that it was just easier for us to pump. I remember going back to my six-week appointment and my midwife was like, “How's breastfeeding going?” I told her, “I'm exclusively pumping.” She was like, “Oh my gosh. That is much harder.” Meagan: That's a lot of work. Alexis: I was like, “No, you don't get it. It's not harder.” When your baby won't latch and they are crying on the breast, it is so stressful. No, no. This is not harder. But it is exhausting. It's so much work. I did it for a year. I'm very proud of that, pumping is not for the faint of heart.Yeah, that was kind of his whole experience. It was just really overwhelming is what I would say. We didn't really know what we were doing and the preeclampsia of it all was so scary. It's such a serious thing that I wasn't super duper-educated on what that could look like. Meagan: Right. 20:45 EMDR therapy and postpartum healing Alexis: After his birth, I just really tried to dive into therapy, and my husband too. We just wanted to work through that because we knew we wanted more kids. I already knew I wanted a VBAC. Immediately, I was like, “This was never my plan to have a C-section so we are going for a VBAC.” I was a great candidate for it. We plugged forward. I did EMDR therapy which I cannot recommend enough. It literally retrains your brain to hop off a thought and get on a healthier track of thinking. My main objective with my therapist was my anxiety around blood pressure because, to me, it felt like blood pressure was something I couldn't necessarily control. You can do things to support your body like diet and supplements and all of these things, but some of us just have chronic high blood pressure or white coat syndrome which was totally me. So I just wanted to eliminate that piece of it if I could and just calm myself down before appointments, not get stressed about it, and not add more to my plate of trying to be healthy for this next pregnancy. I just wanted to do that work before I even got pregnant. I went through EMDR therapy surrounding blood pressure and also just working through my birth and kind of getting to a place where even if that same exact birth happened again, I would have more peace about it because you don't know how it's going to go. The chances of having preeclampsia again the second time are higher than a first birth for anybody else. It could have gone the same way. You don't know, but I just wanted to be prepared to have a better experience, a better bonding experience with my baby, and a better birth. 22:24 Second pregnancyThat really got me to a healthy place. Around the time I was wrapping that up, I got pregnant with my daughter about two years later. I had just done this whole time in between kids and listened to as many VBAC Link episodes as I could. I tried to diversify the information that I was taking in too so a lot of the Evidence-Based Birth, also Dr. Fox's podcast is a really great one for a little bit of a different perspective. Meagan: Yeah. Alexis: He's an MFM. He's been on this podcast and has a very different perspective. He has seen it all so he's going to be a little bit more conservative with allowing any patient to VBAC or any type of “complication”. It's a really good perspective to add to the mix if you are looking for it. I just filled my brain with as many birth stories and as much research as I could. I did everything I could to avoid preeclampsia this time. I ate as close as I could to the Brewer diet. It's so hard if you've ever tried to eat exactly the Brewer diet. It feels impossible at least for me so I just did my best. I tried to eat a lot of protein and started my day with a lot of protein just trying to diversify my diet because I did not do that the first time. Also supplements, so any research that I found, I would take the supplement. So low-dose aspirin, I was on that from the beginning. I took magnesium-glycinate every night. Melatonin– I saw a study that shows a direct link between low levels of melatonin in preeclampsia. Vitamin C is to the strength of your bag of water so I took that every night. My water did not break so I don't know. That worked for me. I also was a little bit anemic during my first pregnancy so I took a grass-fed beef liver supplement and I had no issues with my iron this time either. Just a lot of different things to support my body so I'm like, “I'm giving you the best opportunity, body, to have a healthy pregnancy and that's all I can do.” You've got to throw your hands up at some point and just say, “I did everything I could.” That's what I did. I switched hospitals because I felt like going back to the same hospital would be kind of traumatic. Meagan: It can be triggering. Alexis: Exactly. I switched OBs. I switched to– a friend of mine had an OB who had a really low C-section rate. I think the lowest in the hospital and then also with her, she pushed for three hours. He really, really fought for her vaginal birth because he knew she did not want to have a C-section. Meagan: I love that. Alexis: I thought, “That's the type of doctor that I want.” So I went with him. He was really supportive the whole time. I hired a doula as soon as I could and that was a really great tool as well. Webster-certified chiropractor and all of the things. I just tried to throw everything at it that I could. Alexis: Everything was great. Super healthy. I had no issues again this time. My blood pressure was looking really normal, then a little bit toward the end at the end of 27 weeks-ish, I found out she was breech, my daughter. My chiropractor was on top of it. She was like, “I swear. I have a 97% success rate of flipping babies. I won't say I flip babies, but I give them the space to flip.” Yeah, so I felt confident in that. My doctor had checked. She turned head down later on so everything was good there. A thing that I'll say now is my husband and I had prayed my whole entire pregnancy if we were going to have a repeat C-section, let it be because of breech presentation. I'll get back to that, but that was just something. I'm not against a C-section. I'm against a traumatic birth and everything that we went through. I just don't want to have that experience. Birth is birth. C-section or vaginal birth. You are having this amazing, incredible experience and C-section is not the enemy. Traumatic birth is the enemy. That is what we were hoping for, but she was head down so we were like, “Okay. This is our sign. We're going for it. This VBAC is going to work. It's going to be awesome.” 26:21 Beginning of laborAlexis: As we got to the end, I was cool with cervical checks. That was something I was just kind of curious about. I wanted to know where I was at because my doctor was pretty anti-induction which is great. I just wanted to know where I was at by the end to see if we could do some sort of natural induction method. At 36 weeks, I think I was at 1.5 and then at 37 weeks, I was at a 2. I opted for a membrane sweep. My plan was, “I'm accepting. There is a small risk of infection or them breaking your water but it is a small, small risk.” You just have to weigh the pros and cons. For all of us who are VBACing, there is a risk of rupture. There is a risk of all kinds of things. You have to decide what is right for you. The risk of a membrane sweep was so worth it to me because if he wasn't going to induce me, let's do something natural that can get things going. So for me, I was going to do it every week. I had my first membrane sweep at 37 and 6 then I went into labor the next morning. It worked. I didn't notice anything that day really. I didn't have any bleeding which they usually tell you you could. I really didn't feel any cramps or anything after so I was like, “Oh, well. It didn't work. Whatever.” I get up for work the next morning and basically, as soon as I was vertical for the day, I was feeling contractions. Everyone says just ignore early labor. Pretend it's not happening so that's just what I did. I went to work and had a normal day. Around lunchtime, I was like, “I'm just going to time these and see where we are at.” They were every three minutes really consistently but lasting 30 seconds. They never changed from that rhythm. It was three minutes all day long and intensified throughout the day. I finished my work day. I picked up my son. I went home. My mom was coming up just for a visit and that ended up working out very well. I got home and things really intensified. I was on the ball just tracking things.Again, I was like, “Once I go to bed, these are going to go away. I'm 38 weeks on the dot. I'm not having this baby. I'm not that lucky.” But they just kept coming, so they intensified and intensified. They got longer. They were still three minutes apart. That rhythm never changed from start to finish. Meagan: Wow. Alexis: Yeah, so around 10:00, I got in the bath because I was like, “I'm going to sleep tonight. I'm going to take a bath and make these things putter out and then I'll have a peaceful night of sleep and go on for another week.” Alexis: The bath felt amazing. That really helped me to relax. I listened to some Christian HypnoBirthing tracks and then my husband and I decided we would go to bed. If something pops off, I'll wake my mom up. She's got my toddler and we will head to the hospital. But I was sure that things were just going to stop as they often do in early labor. They didn't. As I was trying to lay there, I went from around– I think we went to bed around 11:00 up until we went to the hospital at 2:30 AM. By that point, I was breathing through them, really feeling them. This was real. I had been letting my doula know, “This is what's going on.” A few hours before that, she was like, “Okay, let's give in an hour. If it doesn't lessen, then we need to start thinking about going to the hospital.” She was two hours away, so she had quite a drive. We were really on top of it and around 2:30 that morning, my husband was like, “Okay, no. We're done. Let's go.” He did not like seeing me that way. I probably would have gone a little bit longer if it was just me but he was not on board with suffering all night. 29:47 A picture-perfect laborAlexis: We headed to the hospital and I was stressed. Am I going too soon? You hear so many stories where contractions are so intense and you get there and you are not dilated at all or something. We get to the hospital in triage. They checked me and I'm at a 3. I'm like, “Okay, cool. That's great.” They hold you for an hour and check you again. If you progress, then they will keep you.” They checked again in an hour and I'm at a 4. We get checked in and at that exact same time, my doula had arrived from her two-hour drive through the night. Things felt so picture-perfect. What lucky girl would go into labor at 38 weeks? Going past your due date is so very normal. I felt like an anomaly even though I had an early birth the first time. I just never thought I would go into labor or that it would work and that I would have a spontaneous labor and that things would progress so easily. I didn't need Pitocin or anything. I felt so thrilled that things were going so well. After having such a birth where everything that could go wrong goes wrong, a birth that is just normal feels like you have won the lottery. That's how I felt the whole labor. Dealing with contractions, I knew how to breathe through them. I never sat down in the bed. That did not feel good and I knew that wasn't helpful so I was on my feet. I did a lot of slow dancing and squatting. I would pedal my feet. That felt really good. Things just progressed on their own. It felt magical. This labor is just happening. My blood pressure is perfect even. It just all felt so perfect. I felt euphoric during labor. It was just the most amazing thing to experience going through labor like that. 31:26 Baby flipping breech and going for a C-sectionAlexis: I mentioned I was at a 4 when we got to stay. We got checked in at around 3:30 AM. They checked me two or three hours later. I was like, “I'm done. This is terrible. I want the epidural.” I planned on getting the epidural just because my issue the first time with pushing was maternal exhaustion so I was like, “I want to be able to give my body the rest it needs so I am all for the epidural at a certain point once we are sure we are in active labor.”I was ready for the epidural. I was like, “Forget this. Get the epidural in here. I'm done. I'm tired.” Of course, in labor land, you have no clue what time it is and it had only been two or three hours. If you had told me that, I would have probably changed my plan, but my body knew. It was time. I got the epidural. They checked me once that had kicked in and I was at an 8.5 after two hours. From a 4 to and 8.5 super fast. We were all shocked so we were like, “Cool. We're about to have this baby.” My nurse was just like, “Okay. Chill out. Let's labor down.” We were coming up on a shift change with OBs on call in the next few hours and I had a bulging bag as well. My nurse was like, “We will probably, if you are okay with it, break your water and you will be complete at that point. You are very, very close.” So we were like, “Great. Let's all take a nap and then we'll do that and then we'll have a baby.” So smooth. Everything up to this point had been so perfect. That was the plan. I was good with all of those interventions. Yeah. My husband, my doula, and I all just conked out for a couple of hours. I also didn't mention this. I was GBS positive which I think kind of ended up working in my favor because it gave me more time to labor down. I had to finish the antibiotics. They could have rushed in and just broken my water then and there and bada bing, bada boom, tried pushing and maybe I wouldn't have been quite as ready, but it bought me three or four more hours to finish the antibiotics. They just left me to rest and to labor down. Even that felt like a treat when I was hoping so hard to not have GBS. I had taken the probiotics and everything. It felt like, “Oh no, one thing went wrong,” but for me, it was great. Just another thing that not everything is bad in these situations. It can be positive. We were able to just labor down. Then around 7:00 or 8:00 AM, I think the next OB on call came in. We broke my water. It was oh my gosh, the biggest gush I have ever heard. It was so much water. We didn't measure it or anything so I don't know if it was unusually a lot. Meagan: Abnormal, mhmm. Alexis: But it felt like it was a lot. Everyone in the room felt like it was a lot. She went to check me and she was like, “Okay. You're at a 6 or a 7.” We were all like, “No, what? No. You're wrong. Try again. That's not true.” She was like, “This is what I'm feeling. Maybe the nurse had it wrong.” I was like, “No.” I was so sure. I was like, “Absolutely not. No. I'm not a 6 or a 7. What is happening?” Then she keeps feeling around and she's like, “I don't know that I feel the head. I don't think this is the head.” I knew immediately. There must have been– I don't know if there has been a story on this podcast of a baby flipping during labor but I have heard it happen before so I knew in my gut. I was like, “She flipped. That stinker.” They bring in the ultrasound machine and sure enough, she had flipped breech after 8.5 centimeters and was breech. This sweet OB was so great and really, really compassionate. She puts her hand on my leg and is like, “I'm so sorry.” She knew I wanted this VBAC. She was like, “I'm so sorry. We don't have another option. We have to have the C-section.”Also, for me personally, I was not comfortable with a breech vaginal delivery. The doctor was not well-versed in it. That did not feel safe to me. Again, my goal was a birth that wasn't traumatic. My goal was not necessarily a VBAC. While at the same time my goal was a VBAC, number one is, “I don't want to be traumatized. I don't want my body to be super messed up and hurting after this like I was the first time. I want my baby to be okay.” That wasn't a risk I was willing to take. The C-section felt fine. So back to what I said earlier about if we were going to have a repeat C-section, let it be because of breech presentation. I was like, “Lord,” when she said that. Meagan: Very validating I'm sure. Alexis: Totally. I had immediate peace about it. My husband rushes over and he was like, “I'm so sorry. Are you okay?” He knew that it was going to be really triggering for me, but I was like, “No, I'm good. This is awesome. We just went through this amazing labor. I was unmedicated until 8.5 centimeters. I felt amazing. I was controlling my pain with my breath. Everything was perfect. Now we're just going to go for a C-section. That's fine.” I just had such a peace about it. It was slow. We got to really prep for it slowly. I brought all of the nurses in and we had a little meeting about– here's my birth plan for a repeat C-section. I had prepared that. Meagan: Good.Alexis: I think people think that is going to jinx them. Make the plan. Make the plan because I hope you don't need it. Meagan: Put it in the bag. Alexis: Yeah, but if you do need it, it will make your C-section awesome and it did. We went over that repeat C-section plan. The main things were immediate skin-to-skin. I still wanted delayed cord clamping and just the usual stuff but it did not happen with my first C-section so I was like, “Please, please, please can we make skin-to-skin happen? That was my big thing.” So yeah. It was slow. It wasn't obviously an emergent situation. She was just breech and hanging out. We prepped and slowly went back. We were just chatting with the nurses. I felt very awake and aware. They bolused up the epidural and it worked so I didn't have to be put under this time either thankfully. I told the OB, “Can you talk through the whole surgery?” That would maybe freak some people out to hear, “Okay, I'm cutting into your uterus now,” but I wanted to know. I wanted to feel involved in the birth. I didn't want to feel like it was happening to me like it did the first time. I got to be a part of that. She took my daughter out. She held her up in front of us for what felt like a really, really long time. It was because she was doing other things and letting the umbilical cord pulse. They actually took out the placenta still attached to her– Meagan: Awesome. Alexis: –which is awesome. Meagan: Yeah, pretty rare. Alexis: They totally met my wishes of delayed cord clamping. Then my husband got to see the placenta. They brought it over to me to look at. That was something I really wanted too. It was just so peaceful. I felt so a part of it. 38:03 The game-changerAlexis: Once they checked her out under the warmer for just a second, I got skin-to-skin for what felt like a really long time. It was awesome. It was so awesome. I never ever would have thought. I was so against another C-section like, “I've got a toddler at home.” My recovery the first time– I was not okay at 12 weeks postpartum with him. I did not feel good. I was going back to work after 6 weeks this time. I was like, “We cannot have another C-section this time. Not an option.” That was my attitude. Through all the work I did, by the time it happened, I was like, “This rocks. This labor was awesome.” It was such a silly way to have a C-section, but what a cool birth. What a funny story I will tell her whole life, “You flipped at 8.5 centimeters, girl. What were you doing?”Meagan: Seriously and the fact that you were able to do the labor, go into spontaneous labor, and see these things, see that your body was doing this and having all of that, that also is validating. Alexis: Totally. Meagan: To have everyone come in, sit down, and be like, “How can we make this special for you? How can we make this a good experience?” That is so empowering and exactly what you said. You can change it to be what may or could have been more traumatic– because honestly looking back, I don't know if you have ever asked yourself this, but if they didn't ask you any of those questions, if they didn't give you any of those opportunities, do you think you'd look at it the same way if they were just like, “We have to go right now”? Alexis: Totally. Yeah. It was a game-changer. Meagan: Yeah. Everything okay. Alexis: We've got time. Meagan: Let's talk about this. How can we make this a good experience for this family? I think that is so important. I think sometimes in the medical system, it's like, once a decision has been made that a Cesarean is going to take place, it's boom, bang, boom, boom, boom, baby out and it moves too fast when it doesn't need to. Alexis: It's still birth. Meagan: Yes, it's still birth. Have that conversation and say, “Okay. Your plans just changed a lot. Let's talk about this.” Or if it's a transfer from a home birth or a birth center. Let's embrace what they were wanting, the type of birth they wanted, and still try to help them have a good experience so we have less PTSD in the future. We have less negative opinions of interventions and Cesareans and things like that. I think a lot of the negative thoughts that we have are from the negative Cesareans that happen.Alexis: Yeah. You've got to advocate for yourself to get that and also, like I said, my doula was really helpful in reminding me of what I wanted and getting things going.40:56 A euphoric birthAlexis: Another piece that I think is cool to think about is– maybe this is weird to some people, but when do you ever get the opportunity to be awake in a surgery? If you're not in the medical field, think about it that way. What a cool thing. I'm in a OR. I get to see this thing that who else would get to experience being in a surgery and being awake for a surgery? Maybe that is someone's worst nightmare, but I was one of those people where I couldn't touch my C-section scar. It freaked me out afterward. I was truly traumatized by it but through all the work I did, I now am in this mental place where I was like, “This is cool. I am a part of this whole experience that is not a vaginal birth and that is disappointing for sure. I still feel like, “Man, that stinks.”However, I got this other experience and it went really well because I told them what I wanted. I got what I wanted. Afterward, postpartum was truly euphoric. I was even the person that was like, “I don't want the shot of Pitocin after my vaginal birth because that might jack with the way my body responds with natural oxytocin.” I was that girl, but it's not all or nothing. I still have those emotions. My body still did the work with my hormones. I bonded immediately with my daughter. It took months with my son because of the trauma. I just didn't feel those emotions yet. It was really hard for me to bond with him. This time, because of this different experience, I was bonded. The skin-to-skin was such a game changer for me. We had a few hours of it. We nursed on and off. Breastfeeding was a breeze this time. I never had a hiccup with it which is so different than my first experience. It was night and day different and I truly don't feel any sort of regret over not getting my VBAC. I almost feel like I still got it. I got the birth I wanted. I still am so shocked by the story. It's such a funny thing that happened. Not my plan, but it was an awesome birth. It was so cool. Meagan: I love that that is how you describe it. I love it so much and I hope, Women of Strength, if you are listening, and your birth turns in a different way that you weren't expecting or that you weren't desiring that you have the support that you have and all of these things to have a better experience. I think too, even with mine, I didn't want it. I didn't want it and still in some ways, I'm like, “Why? Why did I have that?” But at the same time, I'm grateful for it. I'm grateful for that experience. 43:45 Ways to have a gentle CesareanMeagan: Okay, let's talk about a few things. Ways to have a gentle Cesarean. Skin-to-skin, we talked about that right after. Babies can come out and be placed on your chest. They have those big bands where they put all of the monitors on. Sometimes they are straps, but they also have bands. You can ask for that. You wear a tube top. Alexis: Oh, that's cool. Meagan: Yeah, so you have them up here. Because when you're in a C-section, a lot of the time your arms are out straight. Sometimes they are strapped down. Alexis: They did do that. I had asked the anesthesiologist. I was like, “I don't want these. Don't strap me down.” He explained, “Here's why. Sometimes your body responds. You don't want to do it, but your arms reach out and try to stop what's happening to you, so we're going to leave these on. They are not tight.” He talked me through why they were that way and after he said that, I was like, “Oh, okay. That's fine.” He said, “We'll get you out of them as soon as she's born. We'll just do this for now.” I was like, “Okay, that's fine. That makes sense.” Meagan: That's another cool thing that your anesthesiologist was literally talking to you and breaking it down. But yeah, so a lot of the time our arms are straightforward or even strapped out to the side so they are like, “No, you can't have skin-to-skin because you're not going to be able to hold your baby.” Alexis: Not true. Meagan: That is not true. Ask for the tube top. Buy your own tube top as a backup. You can wear it then they can literally tuck baby right down in and place baby right there on your chest. So if you're not feeling the strength or you are feeling nauseous but you really want your baby to be on you, they can be right there and your husband can also help or your birth partner can also help support baby right there. Skin-to-skin is possible 100%. If for some reason, you are not doing well or you are vomiting or something like that because as a baby comes out, things shift and we can vomit, encourage Dad. Encourage Dad to do skin-to-skin. Alexis: That was on our birth plan. Meagan: That can be really comforting and healing to see as well. Those are two of the things. Skin-to-skin. We talked about the cord. Keeping the cord attached. A lot of providers will say, “Nope. We have to cut it. There's a risk of infection because your body is open so we have to cut it quickly and start the next process.” Not necessarily true. We can wait for it to pulse. If for some reason baby is not doing well or maybe there is bleeding or something is going on, they can milk it. They pinch it and they do a mini blood transfusion. They send any blood that is in the cord at the present time to the baby. They pinch it and milk it. Alexis: Cool. That's awesome. Meagan: That's a really good option if you can't have delayed cord clamping. 46:36 Music, skin-to-skin, clear drapes, mirrors, conversation, and maternal-assisted CesareansMeagan: Okay, so music. You can ask your nurse or anesthesiologist to play music in the room so it's not just beep beep.Alexis: They did that when my daughter was born. Meagan: You know? So yeah, so have that music. Alexis: Write it down too. You're not going to remember these things in the moment. I had all of these things written down. Meagan: You won't. Alexis: If I can't do skin-to-skin, my husband will. If it's not written, it might not happen. They're not going to think you are stupid for having a birth plan. Write it down. Meagan: Yes, so true. When I went for my first VBAC with my second baby, something I said is, “I just want to see it. I just want to see my baby come out.” That was so important to me so a lot of hospitals these days do have the clear drape, but a lot of them don't crazy enough. Something I said is if they don't have the clear drape, I want to see it in a mirror. My husband was like, “What?” Alexis: That's a cool idea. Meagan: So to your point, and actually when we were back there, I did not remember that. All I was seeing was a table I was climbing up on. It just wasn't in my mind. My husband said, “Hey, is there any way we could get a mirror so she could watch this and participate in the birth?” They were like, “Yeah, no problem.” They brought it over. They made sure before they even started that I could see and that the angle was perfect. Alexis: That's so great. Meagan: Then they started. My doctor said, “Hey, if at any point you realize what you are watching is happening to you and it weirds you out, just let us know. We will flip the mirror or you can close your eyes.” For me, I didn't get grossed out. I know a lot of people listening would be like, “No, hard pass.” But for me, that was part of my healing watching it happen and watching my baby be brought up earthside. So I really love that and same with you, I had my provider talk to me. Talk to me about what is happening because, with my first, they were talking about the weather and their vacation and how depressing it was to be back in the snow. I was like, “No, hello. I'm here.” Alexis: My plans specifically said, “No shop talk. I don't want anything else talked about.” They acknowledged that. They were like, “Got it. We won't.” Meagan: Love. Love that so much. So yeah, talk to them and say, “Talk to me. Tell me what you are seeing. Tell me what is happening to my body,” as long as that's something you want. I really wanted my husband to watch. I really wanted my husband to take pictures and so many providers are against pictures in the OR. It honestly is just dumb to me because if anything were to go wrong, don't they want proof that everything was okay and they did it right? All right, but whatever if they don't allow it. But it's something you can ask. “Hey, I want pictures” or “Hey, as soon as my baby is out, I want pictures of my baby.” You can also ask them to bring them up so they can see you and even better like Dr. Natalie who we talked to on the podcast last year in 2023, ask for maternal-assisted. It begins with us. Women of Strength, if you are having a Cesarean, we have to start advocating for those people who do want a Cesarean or even don't want a Cesarean but it happens. Let's get some maternal-assisted happening. Let's see that shift in 2024 in the U.S. I would love it. It's happening in Australia here and there. I don't actually know anywhere else. If you guys know of anywhere, if you are listening and you know of somewhere that does maternal-assisted, let me know. That's where they literally drop everything. They have moms with their hands reaching down and grabbing her baby and pulling it up. Alexis: So awesome. Meagan: How amazing could that be? Oh my gosh, it would have been amazing. 50:32 Vaginal seeding, advocacy, and backward dilationMeagan: Yeah, so music. Let's see what else. Oh, there's more. Alexis: I should have pulled up my birth plan. Meagan: I know. These are just things that stand out to me. Yeah, keeping your baby, letting your baby breastfeed. Vaginal microseeding sometimes. People will say, “Hey, can I swab my vagina before I go into my C-section and then have this?” It's a gauze. You have to do a sterile gauze. You put it in a sterile bag then baby can literally nurse on this gauze a little bit and wipe it on their eyes. Alexis: Really cool.  Meagan: Yeah, there are some really cool things. Know that it is possible to advocate for yourself. Advocating for yourself is going to help you. If you have a doula or your husband or a birth partner or a mom, help them know what you want. Help them know what is important to you and like she said, have a backup birth plan and birth preferences. It's okay to have them because, at that time, you are not in that space. A couple of other things that I wanted to touch on is you talked about how you were 8.5 centimeters and then they checked you and you were less after your water broke. Sometimes, Women of Strength, this could be a result in this type of situation where the bag is so bulgy that it's literally stretching like a Foley or a Cook catheter, stretching your cervix, and then it relaxes a little bit. That doesn't mean it's not dilated. It means that sometimes it is overstretched, then relaxes, and then it goes forward. Alexis: And that pressure was gone from her head since she flipped. That was part of it too. Meagan: Yep, and the pressure was gone. Yep, exactly. There are situations like that, but that doesn't mean your body is necessarily regressing a ton and we've got big problems. It just sometimes means that the situation has changed. A head isn't applied as well and your bag broke that was bulging. Okay, and I have all of these little notes here that I was writing. Okay, let's see. 52:29 Swelling in pregnancy and nutritionMeagan: Oh, swelling a ton in pregnancy. That's another thing. I also was like you. I just ballooned. I had people tell me I was unrecognizable but I didn't have protein.Alexis: Don't you love to hear that? Meagan: Yeah. I was like, “Thanks. I'm so fat. Awesome.” Alexis: Yeah, you already feel awful about it and people comment. Thank you. Meagan: Yes. But that is still something to watch for. Sometimes we think we have too much fluid so we back off on water. Don't back off on water. Stay hydrated. Add some citrus to it. Alexis: And electrolytes. I took electrolytes every day. Meagan: Yep. Electrolytes and magnesium baths. Do these types of things to help and then of course, just like you said, it doesn't matter if you had preeclampsia. Dial in on nutrition. Dial in on those supplements because naturally like you were saying, you don't get enough protein in your day-to-day life and then you are pregnant and you need more. It's really hard. That's why I love the collagen prenatal protein from Needed. I love getting prenatals that have protein supplements is what I'm trying to say and things like this. Get the nutrients that you need and your body deserves. Then again, let your body take the lead but give it all that it can to do the best it can. Alexis: Yeah. Do everything you can. That was good for me mentally to just do everything I could to support my body and it's like, “From here on out, this is on your body.” With my birth, I feel the same way. I did everything I could. I labored textbook how you should and yet, you still flipped. That's your fault, not mine. Meagan: Yes. It was out of your control. Do what you can. Control what you can. Trust the process. Get the support. Advocate for yourself and love yourself. Love yourself for all of the work that you have done. Women of Strength, we love you. Alexis, thank you so much for being here with us today and sharing your positive birth story. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

“Birth is birth and we just want our babies here safe, but I also think that we all deserve to be empowered to have the birth that feels right.”One night, a few months after her second C-section, Arianna had a dream that she was giving birth vaginally to a sweet baby boy and pulled him right up to her chest. The next morning, she took a pregnancy test and it was surprisingly positive. Coming from a small town in Wyoming, she already knew from her second pregnancy that VBAC was not allowed locally. But at that moment, Arianna knew she was going to do whatever it took to have her VBA2C. Arianna traveled 2.5 hours each way for routine midwife and OB appointments in Montana to have VBAC-supportive providers. She faced many roadblocks including a short pregnancy interval, gestational diabetes, preterm premature rupture of membranes (PPROM), a medical induction, other interventions she wasn't planning for, and slow progress. But her team was patient and encouraging, Arianna felt divinely watched over, and her VBA2C dream literally came true!  The VBAC Link Blog: What to do When Your Water BreaksThe VBAC Link Blog: VBAC With Gestational DiabetesThe VBAC Link Facebook CommunityNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details 01:44 Review of the Week03:52 Arianna's first birth story07:04 Requesting a C-section08:34 Arianna's second birth11:36 VBAC preparation15:37 Signs of preterm labor20:34 Going to the hospital24:04 First cervical check27:10 Slow effacement 31:05 Catching her baby33:59 Importance of support36:35 Dual care tips44:56 Traveling tipsMeagan: Hello, Women of Strength. We are on episode two of the week and I am just so excited that we are doing this. It is so fun to bring double doses of VBAC, CBAC, and educational stories to inspire and encourage you during your journey. Today, we have our friend, Arianna, and she is from Wyoming. Is that correct?Arianna: Yep. Meagan: Yes, Wyoming. Where in Wyoming?Arianna: Buffalo. It sits under the Big Horn mountains.Meagan: Awesome. You guys, she actually traveled quite a distance to find her provider and that is something I think we get often in our community where it's like, “I don't know how far is appropriate to travel.” I think the answer literally depends on what's appropriate for your family and your living situation and your needs and everything like that. But Arianna– I just started butchering your name. Did you travel 2.5 hours?Arianna: About 2.5 up to Montana. Meagan: Okay, so we are definitely going to want to talk about that because I know this is going to be something that people are going to be interested in. Also, you had gestational diabetes. Arianna: Yes. Meagan: Yes. So okay, you guys, any story right? But if you are looking for knowing how to travel or gestational diabetes or anything like that, this is definitely the episode to listen to. 01:44 Review of the WeekMeagan: But of course, we have a Review of the Week and this is a fresh review, well fresher review. It's in 2023 so just last year which is crazy still to me to say that this is last year, but it was in 2023 by sayerbaercooks. The review title is “Educating and Empowering.” It says, “Just had my VBAC. My pregnancy and birth changed all for the better thanks to this podcast and the women who shared their stories. This tool gave me the information I needed to advocate for me and my baby. I learned about the medical system and about myself and I had a fantastic birth which was the icing on the cake. I cannot thank you all enough.”I love that so much. I love that this podcast is doing exactly what we created it to do. So Women of Strength, one, if you have shared your story on our podcast, thank you. Thank you so much for creating such an amazing space for all of the Women of Strength listening. And if you are interested in sharing your story, definitely email us. Reach out or you can go online at thevbaclink.com/share and submit your podcast story. We're sharing both on social media and we're sharing on the podcast. We are hoping to get to some more of our submissions. 03:52 Arianna's first birth storyMeagan: Okay, darling. I am excited to hear your story. I feel like as I was reading your blurb about your story, I feel like there is so much that you did, truly, that you did between hiring a doula, driving 2.5 hours, going to a chiropractor, reading all of the books, listening to the podcast, eating really well, finding the true support that you deserved– you did a lot and that is hard to do. Sometimes we do all of that and our birth still doesn't end up the way that we wanted, but sometimes I feel like when we look back, we at least know that we did all that we could, but I'm so excited for you to share your VBAC after two C-section story with us right now. Arianna: Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited. I'll just start with my first. I feel like that's where we go. I was a single mom with my first pregnancy and I was young. I was only 22, or almost 22, and I think really the only thing I did was the 2-hour hospital birth class. I think I just had this expectation of, “Well, women push out babies and that's just what I'll do.” I didn't feel prepared. I felt very alone. I was induced at 41 weeks and 6 days because my body was just not having it. I did everything I could think of and acupuncture and he just didn't want to come out. I had a pretty easy induction. We started with Cytotec and Pitocin. After I got my first dose of Cytotec, my water broke two hours later. I was 2 centimeters. Meagan: Darn it. Arianna: That was rough and the contractions were just insane. Pitocin contractions are the devil's work, I think. There were super painful. I had my mom with me, but I just didn't feel like I was in a supportive environment looking back especially. I got the epidural right away because I was like, “Oh my gosh, it's not supposed to be this painful.” Meagan: Yeah. Well, Cytotec, Pitocin, water breaking– all of those things packed together, that's tough. Arianna: It was intense. I labored in bed all day. All day long. I progressed really well. I got to 10 centimeters. I started pushing and I was like, “La, la, la. I'm going to have a baby. This is great. I've got my drugs. I can't really feel anything.” But I think within the first hour of pushing, I was like, “Well, I'm doing something wrong because nothing is happening.” The doctor kept saying, “He's so high up. He's not coming down.” So I think what broke me though is the older nurse. I will never forget her face, but she just made a snide comment of, “Girls these days just don't know how to have babies.” Meagan: Oh.07:04 Requesting a C-sectionArianna: I was like, “Oh, okay.” I pushed for three total hours and then I started to just really feel like something was wrong. I asked for a C-section. Meagan: Okay, yeah. Arianna: Looking back, I'm like, “There are so many things that could have gone differently.” We ended up with a C-section and he was OP, so he was face up and he was slanted. Meagan: I was just going to ask that. Arianna: Mhmm. He was a little slanted and OP. You know, later I found out he was kind of having some developmental things and he was struggling with the right side of his body so I ended up finding out that he had actually gone without oxygen and had a blood clot and had a stroke during delivery. I'm grateful for that C-section and trusting my body that things didn't feel right, but it came with a lot of trauma over all of it. Arianna: Around that time, my son was about 2, I met my now husband and we went down the road of diagnosis and specialists finding out he has mild cerebral palsy. Meagan: I was just going to ask if he has cerebral palsy. Arianna: He is a rockstar, truly. He has saved my life in so many ways. I am so proud of him. He works so hard with PT and OT and all of the things. 08:34 Arianna's second birthSo moving on, I got married to the most amazing man ever. He loved every part of me. I struggled pretty intensely throughout my teenage years with mental health stuff, suicidal ideation, depression, and all of those things. At the time, I was pretty heavily involved in suicide prevention. That is always a huge part of my life. We got married and we got pregnant right away. I had a miscarriage pretty early on and then we got pregnant again. I had heard of this little fairytale thing called a VBAC. I was like, “Ooh, yeah that's cool.” I brought it up to my doctor at our little small hospital. Immediately, he was like, “It's not really safe, but if that's what you want to do, we don't do them in the state of Wyoming.” So I was like, “Okay. Well, we'll just have a C-section,” because I really didn't know and I was still dealing with the trauma of my first birth. Five years had gone by and I wasn't aware I was so traumatized until I was having another baby. Meagan: That's often the case. We don't really recognize it until we are in that new situation and all of the flooding memories come in and we're like, “Oh crap. Wow, I have trauma.” Arianna: Yeah. My doctor was amazing. He really validated where my anxiety and my fears were coming from. I didn't want a C-section, but in my mind, we are told, “If you've had one, everyone says you have to have another. It's the safest option,” so I trusted that.At 38 weeks, my water broke. Meagan: Okay. Arianna: I was like, “Oh, my body could do it.” I still had my C-section, but that for me, was redemptive because I was like, “See? My body could do it,” and that was okay. That was an adventure. When my daughter was 6 weeks old, I got mastitis and was septic and in the hospital for a week and a half.Meagan: Yikes. Arianna: That was insane and I was on heavy-duty antibiotics for three or four months but I was also on the pill so those two things counteract each other if people don't know that, so when she was 7 months, we found out we were pregnant in a wild way. I had a dream one night that I had a baby boy vaginally and I caught him and brought him to my chest. The next morning, I took a pregnancy test. I told my husband, “I will not have another C-section. I will not.” That just started this, “I'm going to have a VBAC and I don't even know if this is real or if people after multiple C-sections do this,” because living in such a small area, I didn't know anyone who had ever had a VBAC. 11:36 VBAC preparationSo I was like, “Okay. We are doing it.” I got all of the books. I joined all of the Facebook groups. I started listening to The VBAC Link and I hired a doula. I was probably only 8 weeks pregnant when I hired a doula. I found the midwife clinic that was within the hospital in Montana 2.5 hours away. I knew I needed a doula there. I had a pretty good pregnancy. It was scary bringing it up to my provider here. I did see him a couple of times throughout my pregnancy just in case something happened. Meagan: Yeah, that's called dual care and I think that's actually a really great option when you are traveling or sometimes if you are going out of the hospital and you just want to be established in the hospital as a backup plan, doing that dual care is actually really good. Arianna: That was the hardest fight of the whole pregnancy because I was so set on getting my VBAC and it wasn't safe. There were just all of these things and eventually, he got on board, I think, because he knew how serious I was. I had such an amazing experience driving 2.5 hours away. Looking at it now, it wasn't a big deal at all because I was so set. It didn't matter. I would have gone anywhere because I was so set. “This is what I am doing.” The midwife clinic was within the hospital so they worked alongside OBs and everything. Sorry, I'm getting emotional. Meagan: That's okay. Arianna: The midwife clinic was amazing. They never once, every time I would go to an appointment, I'm like, “Okay. This is the time they are going to tell me that I can't. I can't have a TOLAC. I can't even try.” That's all I wanted. I wanted the chance to try. They were always so encouraging and amazing like, “No, you can do this.”It was a clinic so there were several different midwives that you saw on rotation. There were a couple of times I would catch one that was like, “You've had two C-sections. We don't really do this,” then there would be somewhere it was like, “Yeah. You're going to do great. This is going to be awesome.” I just tried to hold onto that. Really, the whole experience was just a testament to how loving God is in my life. I really had to find peace towards the middle end of my pregnancy and I just had to give it to God because I was starting to really become anxious. Arianna: Then I failed my glucose test and I was just like, “Well, here we go. I'm going to have a C-section now.” Then I really started to dive deep. The thing that got me through the 2.5-hour” drives there and back was The VBAC Link because I didn't have an army of women who got it in any way really. I needed that. It gave me a sense of community and this distant village of women I'm never going to meet. They're there. They're out there and it's definitely possible. So listening to stories of women who had similar experiences got me through. I had gestational diabetes. It was diet-controlled. I'm a little thicker than I would want to have been through a pregnancy, so the gestational diabetes in a way was kind of a blessing in disguise because it really held me accountable to exercise and eating healthy. It kind of helped in a way. I'm really grateful I didn't have to be on medication. Meagan: Yeah. 15:37 Signs of preterm laborArianna: So at about 30 weeks, I started losing parts of my mucus plug. I was like, “I don't think this is normal.Meagan: A little early, yeah. Arianna: But it grows back, so I was like, “I'll be fine.” At about 34 weeks, I went and had a big appointment with my MFM and my midwife. I got to tour the hospital and for a small-town girl, I was like, “Wow. This is insane. This is where you have a baby.” The NICU was right there. There were operating rooms right there on the floor in case of anything. We got to see delivery rooms. The lady who gave us our tour thought that I was genuinely insane because I had two C-sections. She was like, “Oh.” Meagan: I don't understand. When I went to go get my records, they looked at me like, “What? What are you thinking? You are scary,” like I was some plague or something. What? Arianna: Yeah, and I think the biggest thing I faced was, “Why? You had two C-sections. You recovered just fine. Why does it even matter?” Meagan: I know. Mhmm. Arianna: I could never really give them an answer because it wasn't– I think a lot of people made it sound like I had to prove myself and my ability as a woman and as a mother to have a vaginal birth. I think that's very valid for a lot of women because there's trauma in this “I'm not good enough” feeling still surrounded by C-sections which is not true. Birth is birth and we just want our babies here safe, but I also think that we all deserve to be empowered to have the birth that feels right. Meagan: Absolutely. Arianna: And that feels like we are worthy of that, that we could do it or just an opportunity to try. She was the first person that it didn't bother me. I'm like, “I'm 34 weeks. I am doing all the things and I'm going to have this perfect, totally chill VBAC experience and it's going to be amazing.” Well, the next week, I really started to have inconsistent contractions. I was really losing my mucus plug. I woke up at 35+4 and definitely had some bloody show. I just felt kind of leaky. Every time someone was like, “What do you mean leaky?” I'm like, “I just feel leaky. I don't know.” Meagan: You're like, “Something's going on down there.” Arianna: Something is going on, but it's too early, so I was like, “I'm just going to act like everything's fine.” My daughter had a doctor's appointment at the clinic that day, a wellness checkup. The doctor was like, “Are you doing okay?” I'm like, “Yep.” In my mind, I'm like, “If I say anything, they're going to check me and for all I know, I could be dilating. My water probably broke.” I was pretty sure my water broke. Meagan: Were you still inconsistent with your contractions at this point?Arianna: Yeah, mhmm so it was like, “No, I'm good.” I don't want to get stuck here. I don't want to have a C-section.20:34 Going to the hospitalArianna: So we finished up her appointment. I called my husband. I called the midwives and the midwife nurse I spoke to just told me, “If you want a chance for your VBAC and there is any chance you are in labor, pack up your stuff.” We are 2.5 hours away and those potty breaks at that fully pregnant, I'm going to have to stop and use the bathroom. It was going to take us a minute to get there. We got the kids situated and it was a beautiful day. It was so beautiful. My contractions were super chill and super inconsistent. We drove. We danced and laughed. I cried. I was nervous. I was excited. We got there and I really wanted KFC because I had just eaten super healthy my whole pregnancy and what were they going to do? So we got some food. We got to the hospital at about 2:30 in the afternoon and it was nice because the midwives had their own nursing staff. It felt so different than my first birth, tenfold and then even my C-section with my second. We got there and the whole time, I was mostly angry because we just drove 2.5 hours and there's no way I'm in labor. There's no way. We just wasted all of this time to come up here. The first thing they did was check to see if my water had broken. They did that swab. They sent it off and we just sat in the room for an hour. I was texting my doula and I was like, “Oh my gosh. They're going to make me have a C-section.” She's like, “No, just calm down.” She was so amazing. Yeah, they came back and they were standing there. We had the OG midwife and then we had a new midwife to that clinic so she was kind of just taking charge of things, but the nurse came in and she started writing on the board. Then I let out some potty words and I was like, “Oh my gosh.” Meagan: What the heck? Arianna: No. Quit writing on the board. I asked, “Is it negative?” She was like, “Yeah, your water broke.” I was like, “Okay, so I have to have a C-section. You're going to put me on a clock.” I just started downward spiraling. The stress. I was like, “It's too early. I'm only 35.5 weeks. It's too early.” That was the scariest moment because I felt so out of control. I really just had to start praying and listening to some music. So I was too scared to get a cervical check because I remembered not dilating with my first then even with my second, my water broke and I was 2 centimeters before I had my second via C-section.Meagan: Right. And you're not contracting a ton right now. Arianna: Not even. I mean, maybe one every 30 minutes and it was like mild, period cramps. I'd get an intense one every once in a while, but it wasn't consistent so I was really worried that I wasn't dilating. My water broke too early and I was like, “Even if they let me try, it's just going to be this cascade of interventions and everything is just going to go out the window. I've worked too hard.” It was awful. My mindset was not great. 24:04 First cervical checkArianna: I did end up letting her check me. I was 1 centimeter and I was only 20% effaced so there was a whole lot of nothing going on. After a few hours, they had to talk to my MFM because I was early. I had gestational diabetes. They had to talk to the on-call OB. We had to have this checklist of people and what we were going to do. She came back in and she was like, “Okay. I'm going to check you and if we're still good, we're going to do a Cook catheter,” which is the double Foley, “and we're going to do Pitocin.” Immediately, my husband stood up and was like, “She doesn't want Pitocin. Pitocin is not good. That is her last resort.” I felt really supported. I thought, “Oh my gosh. He's listened to me this whole pregnancy. These are things we don't want.” I talked with my doula. I talked with my husband and this was kind of my only shot if I wanted to try, we needed to get things going. But they were very good about never putting me on that clock. Meagan: Good. Arianna: Which was great. Yeah, so at about 7:00 at night, we had been there a few hours. I was 1 centimeter, but I was 50% effaced. She was like, “See? You are doing it.” We did the Cook catheter and they let me wait a couple of hours before starting Pitocin and they started very, very low. Meagan: Good. Arianna: Which was awesome. My doula came and we just walked. As soon as I got that Cook catheter, I was like, “All right. Come on, hubby. We are walking these halls because I'm not sitting down. I cannot.” I couldn't let my mind get the best of me. We walked for 5 hours. We were just moving. Meagan: Wow. Arianna: We didn't sit down. There were a couple of times with that Cook catheter where I was like, “Dear Lord, help me. This is the most uncomfortable thing ever.” We were on the opposite side of where my room was on the hall and my water gushed. I mean, it was the movies. I was like, “Uh, what do we do?” It's 12:30 in the morning and this cute little housekeeper came and she helped me get a little cleaned up. I waddled back up to our room. At that point, my contractions were coming. They were coming. They had upped the Pitocin a little bit and I still did not want to get checked or anything. I still had the Cook catheter, but I would say at about 1:30 in the morning, I was on my dilation station backward on the toilet and that thing just popped out. I was like, “Oh my gosh. It's happening.”That was a moment where I was like, “Okay. I'm going to get to have my baby.” I waited about another hour before I would let her check me because I was scared. I was scared for the discouragement of, “Oh, well you're only 4 centimeters or something.” She checked me at about 2:30 and I was 8.5 centimeters. Meagan: What?27:10 Slow effacement Arianna: I was only 50% effaced. So I had not effaced in that whole time. Meagan: Dilated but still thick. Arianna: Oh my lord. We don't talk about that I feel like. We hear, “8.5 centimeters” and I was like, “I don't need an epidural. I'm going to push this baby out in an hour. This is going to be great.” Yeah, no. I stalled. Nothing happened. They kept upping my Pitocin and I let her check me again at about 5:00 and at that point, I was having major back labor which then me and my doula were like, “Oh no. He's OP. He's definitely face up.” Meagan: We've got to work on this. Arianna: I was trying to walk and move in the bathtub and I was just miserable. I probably let those contractions that were on top of each other, no breaks, for another hour and a half and by 6:30 in the morning, I yelled, “Pineapple!” That was my safety word. My husband was like, “Don't tap out. You're doing great.” I instantly was like, “I'm not tapping out. Why would you say that?” He was like, “No, no. I just meant you are doing so good.” Because I had gone all that time without asking for drugs, my night nurse thought I did not want the epidural at all. She was very encouraging and amazing. She was like, “No, you're doing great.” My doula was pulling out the peppermint essential oils and all of the things and all of the counterpressure. I mean, I just was like, “If I don't get the epidural, I'm not going to make it. I won't be able to keep going. I'm exhausted. I'm in so much pain.” So lord bless that anesthesiologist because he was there within 15 minutes and I was struggling. I was like, “I can't breathe. I can't do this.” The whole energy of that room was so healing. It was so positive because no one was yelling. It was so stress-free. I got the epidural at about 7:30 in the morning and I slowly, very slowly kept going. Very slowly. I think at about 9:00 or 10:00, I was only about 9 centimeters and 70% effaced. That was a moment where I was like, “I'm going to end up having a C-section.” Meagan: That moment of doubt. Arianna: That doubt just came in and my doula and my husband were like, “No, you're not.” Once I got my epidural, my doula and my nurses were changing me every 30 minutes. I had the peanut ball. We were flipping positions. We were doing all of the things and my nurse came in at about 11:00. I called her and I was like, “I need you to check me because I need to get up and go number two.” It's not the baby, I swear. I have to go to the bathroom. She kind of giggled and she checked me. I was like, “Don't tell me.” It was those magical words that I had waited for my whole pregnancy, “You're complete and it's time.” Because I was early, we had to have this whole team of people. We had NICU staff and several nurses. We did a couple of practice pushes and his head was down there and ready. I ended up having to push for probably 45 minutes and my midwife had to just do a little snip because we really started to have some decels. I started to get a little panicked. My husband was just there and I just had to close my eyes and start praying, “God, you know my heart. I can do this.” 31:05 Catching her babyArianna: One more push and he was out. I helped bring him to my chest. He did come out with the cord wrapped around his neck so then I knew why he was starting to have some decels. I got to hold onto him for a little bit and then he had to go to the NICU because he was having some breathing issues. I just remember my husband saying, “You did it.” I think any woman listening to it who has had the VBAC, that moment, there's no moment like it really. It's not like, “Oh, I just had a baby vaginally,” it's “I just did something that so many people told me I couldn't do or that my body wasn't capable of” or whatever. It was so healing and so amazing. He was only in the NICU for a few days which was a huge blessing.Meagan: That's awesome. Arianna: I feel like just stuttered through all of that. I don't even remember half of the stuff I said or that I wanted to say, but I think overall, the experience was just a testament to how strong our bodies and our minds can be. I know that in the moments, I really believe I stalled because I got in my head. I was just like, “Okay, I can't do this. This is hard. I'm not progressing. My body's not working right.” I just really believe in the power of the mind. I think personally, my only goal in medication was to make it to 6 centimeters. I was like, “I just want to get to 6 centimeters without the epidural” and I made it past that. Meagan: Yes, you did. Arianna: I was very happy to get the epidural because I knew that I needed that break physically and mentally. Yeah, that's a rundown I guess. It was beautiful. I'm blessed that I have all of my babies here and that they were here safely. My second C-section was redemptive. It was healing. I had a doctor who listened to me and made me feel safe and cared for. In my VBAC experience, I had to fight for a support system that was almost 3 hours away, but what was so beautiful was what came after just this, “Wow,” or having people I don't know super well messaging me and be like, “Hey, what did you do? How did you go about this?” I'm like, “You know what? This is why it mattered?”33:59 Importance of supportArianna: It doesn't matter how your baby gets earthside, in my opinion. Meagan: It doesn't. It doesn't. Arianna: C-section is okay. It's totally fine. It's okay if you want repeat C-sections because that works for you but I think it also needs to be okay for women to want the opportunity to try for a vaginal birth as long as it's safe and healthy and everything, but I think for me, the biggest thing was feeling supported. It came in so many different ways but it's how I made it through for sure. Meagan: Yeah. Support is one of the biggest tools in our toolbag when it comes to achieving the birth we desire. Like you were saying, it doesn't mean we have to have a VBAC. It doesn't mean you have to have a C-section. It doesn't mean you can't be induced. We have to dial into what we desire and then find the support that surrounds that type of birth. I think that if I'm going to be super honest, that's where I get really angry in this community because I see time and time and time again people not being supported, people not being given the opportunity to even try to have it. You know what I mean? We just cut people off in this world and it's just so frustrating to me. Providers, why can we not step up to the plate and offer people support? Why do we have areas that are absolutely not supportive? If they are capable of giving birth to a baby, they are capable of helping someone give birth to a baby in any way, right? It's just so frustrating and it's for sure the biggest tool that we can have. That sometimes looks like driving almost 3 hours away or that sometimes looks like hiring a doula further away or whatever. It's important. It's so important and Women of Strength, I want you to know you are worth it. You are worth getting the support. You are worth finding the support and36:35 Dual care tipsMeagan: Let's talk a little bit about traveling. You talked a little bit about how you did a little dual care. I think it's a really great option to have if you are traveling, but there was something that you mentioned and I wanted to talk about this as well. It can actually sometimes be a little difficult because you've got one side that's not supportive and one side that is supportive. Sometimes, they are saying different things. It's pulling you in all of these directions, making you question, and that can be really, really, really difficult. I had a client years ago who did dual care at the same hospital for a little bit and then transferred out of the hospital. The midwives and OBs were like, “No, your placenta is going to die. Your uterus is going to rupture.” They were saying all of these really, really big and scary things. She would call me and she was like, “What do you think about this? Maybe I'm making a bad choice,” even though in the end she was like, “I knew better, but they got to me.” That can be something that can be hard to battle within your own mind and doubt that intuition. Know that if you are doing dual care, that can come up. Did you notice that? Arianna: Yeah, hearing you speak, I'm like, “Oh my gosh, that was how I was with my doula.” I would go here and see my provider. I think honestly, it's not that they wouldn't support VBACs, I just think the information they have is dated and realistically, it's not safe because “we don't have 24-hour anesthesia.” If something happened, they wouldn't be able to provide the care needed. But also, there were so many times where I felt like the information I was being told or the data was not anything I had found and then I talked with my MFM who was 100% on board and he was like, “Yeah. You're going to do great.” Then I was like, “Wait, what?” A big thing especially was, I don't think I would ever do that again if I had another. Meagan: Dual care. Arianna: Yeah, I wouldn't. It implants so much doubt. It's not that they weren't supportive, it's just that they weren't the support I needed. I think a big thing was I needed to feel supported because a VBAC is this hypothetical creature that lives somewhere far-off that no one has heard of, so that was the hard part was living in this tiny area where it was not safe, super dangerous, no one does it, especially after two C-sections. Meagan: Right, yeah. I mean, my dual care experience lasted very short-lived because I did end up transferring officially to my midwife, but I went in every time knowing that they were going to have an opinion, but I knew where my heart stood. It was nice to have those options if transfer needed to happen and things like that, but I knew what they were going to say, I was going to hear it but let it bounce off. It was really hard to have to go in there every time and be like, “Okay. You're going to get doubt and that's okay. People are going to doubt you and that's okay. You're not doubting yourself. Know it.” Arianna: Yeah. It was a mental workout every time. I knew they cared about me and my well-being of myself and my baby 100%, but I knew that in their minds, what I wanted to do was not a good idea and it wasn't safe. I think my biggest encouragement to people who maybe do dual care is the best option is not to go to their appointments alone. That's huge. I think I survived it because I had such a huge support system. I had friends who were like, “Nope. Do you want me to come with you? Don't get discouraged. You can do this.” Really, I had to get to a place in my pregnancy where I think with VBACs, we get really stuck with research and all of the information and the podcast and the forums on Facebook and all of these things, where it's like, “If you want to have a VBAC, it has to look like this.” Everything I thought was going to happen went out the window. I got gestational diabetes. I had preterm labor. I had to get induced. My baby ended up in the NICU. All of the beautiful aspects that everyone talks about around VBAC were not realistic because every birth is different for everyone.I think a big thing for the VBAC community that I didn't feel supported in is, “What if I have to get induced? What if I fail my glucose test? What if I have these barriers or preterm labor? What if I have all of these roadblocks?” Meagan: Well, you actually had a shorter interval too, but no one ever really said anything. There are so many things that something could come up. Arianna: Yeah, my babies were only 15 months apart. Meagan: There are all of these things and I'm like, “There are so many roadblocks that could have come up along the way.” Arianna: Oh yeah, when I unpack my VBAC suitcase and I look at things, I'm like, “Wow, this is heavy,” because I had also just had this near-death experience with my second child with this mastitis. It was just a God thing. I mean, it was for me. I mean, it was 100%. I know that God knew my heart in the whole experience and He was so faithful to all of it. For me, I like to think that I give things to God but then I slowly take them back and this was the one experience in my life where it was like, “God has to have this 100%” because I look at all of the little roadblocks and they weren't roadblocks at all. They were just little bumps and we made it through. Meagan: I love that so much. I am so proud of you. I'm proud of you for getting the education, doing the research, and joining the community so like you said in the beginning, you had that community of women all over the world that were in very similar spaces and that you could connect with. That's something I love so much about our VBAC community on Facebook is you get on there and you're like, “Whoa. I'm not alone. I feel alone right here, but I'm not alone.” You can turn to that space. You can turn to these podcasts and you really truly become friends with some of these people, right? I'm just so proud of you and so glad that you had your VBAC. I'm so thankful that you were on the show. I wanted to let everyone know that we do have blogs on gestational diabetes. We have blogs on laboring at home, what to know and when it's not safe, and things like that for people who may be traveling a little distance who are not in preterm labor. We have tons of blogs. I don't know if you've ever had this, but it's called Real Food for Gestational Diabetes by Lily. Arianna: Yeah. Meagan: You know it? Arianna: I read it. Meagan: That is such an amazing book and we've had Lily on the podcast. I just think that one is a really great go-to. She also has Real Food for Pregnancy so that's a really good one. But yeah, just getting all of the education you can. 44:56 Traveling tipsArianna: I want to touch really quickly on what it was like traveling in preparation for birth. Obviously, mine didn't go to plan, but I think the biggest thing that I see people asking is, “Well, when do I leave? How do I know?” My plan was for my midwife to have vouchers for the hotel that was right next to the hospital so there were options available or trying to find a family or friend that you could stay with. My plan was actually to go up there and stay at 38 weeks until baby came. I was intending to labor as much as I could at the hotel or whatever. Obviously, things worked out great, but having a plan like that in place between 37 and 38 weeks is really comforting because like my midwife told me, she was like, “If you want that chance for a VBAC, pack your bags and get up here.” That's my biggest piece of advice. If you are traveling, try to have a plan set up towards the end. Where can you stay? Do you have a support system up there? That was huge. Meagan: Yeah. I agree so much. Yeah. Having that and having the plan in between like, okay. if labor shifts really fast, know the hospitals in between or know where you can go in between. Be prepared. Have the things in your bag. Have a little bit of a plan. Get the support at home and when you're there. All of those things are going to add up and create a better experience for you. It is possible to travel. It's worth it in my opinion. I only had to travel a really short distance, but I've had clients that travel literally from Russia to Utah to have these VBACs. I think she would vouch every single day that it was worth it. You just have to figure out what's best for you and your family. Find the resources, get the support, and rock your birth. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Happy podcast Wednesday, Women of Strength! You do NOT want to miss today's episode. Clair shares her beautiful journey to a VBA3C. After fully dilating and pushing for hours but ultimately ending in C-sections with her first three babies, Clair finally had the vaginal birth she so badly hoped for with her fourth! Clair shows just how powerful birth can be when a woman's intuition is combined with informed consent and an open-minded birth team. There were unfortunately some technical difficulties during this episode and part of Clair's third birth story was not recorded. Clair graciously submitted this written account below.24:08 “With my third baby (attempted VBA2C), I dilated quickly and smoothly, baby was descending beautifully, and I started feeling like it was time to push. I pushed for a long time - a couple of hours - and he was coming down, but slowly. We tried many different positions, moving around, etc… but it was taking a while. Looking back, I was having some back labor and it's likely that when my water broke on its own, he dropped into a posterior position. After several more hours, we could see his head! I thought a VBAC might really happen! But baby's heart rate started having decels and having a hard time coming back up, so we decided to transfer to the hospital for monitoring. I was pretty exhausted by that point, so I was hoping that IV fluids would help me regain strength and keep going. When we got to the hospital, however, they would only let me labor in the operating room because I was a VBAC patient, so I was very limited in mobility and my options. Baby seemed stable, but they were basically prepping for surgery from the moment I walked in the door and wouldn't tell me baby's stats. We eventually called it, opting for a C-section on our terms so we could have delayed cord clamping and a calm environment. Baby boy was almost 10 pounds and had very healthy APGAR scores! I was disappointed I didn't have a VBAC, but I felt respected by my midwife the whole way through. Postpartum physical recovery was difficult, but emotionally this birth was much less traumatic because I had a supportive birth team. I also took two intentional weeks to do nothing but be with the baby and rest, which I hadn't done with my previous two births, and that made a huge difference in my mental health and bonding with my baby!”Additional LinksNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Time Stamp Topics01:56 Review of the Week04:30 Clair's first pregnancy and birth 07:50 Recovering from a C-section while moving 09:24 Getting pregnant at 3 months postpartum & dual care during COVID14:39 Laboring at home to complete & hospital check-in17:49 Clair's second Cesarean19:08 An emotional recovery23:38 Third labor with a home birth midwife24:08 Pause in story – read caption!24:20 Fourth pregnancy 28:49 Moving to Utah 35:34 Midwifery care in the hospital38:47 Active labor begins45:04 Circumvallate placenta Meagan: Hello, hello Women of Strength. We are at the end of February here and we have a story that I swear– VBAC after multiple Cesareans is very highly requested when it comes to this community so we have a story for you guys today for VBAC after three C-sections. Not only was it a VBAC after three C-sections, but it was also a pre-term VBAC after three C-sections. I think in a lot of places around the world if someone came in pre-term and they have had three C-sections, finding that support is going to be hard. It doesn't need to be necessarily hard, but I know that it can be so I'm excited for this story from our guest, Clair, today because it's a story that just shows that it is possible even if you have certain things stacked against you that the medical world looks at in a negative way. 01:56 Review of the WeekSo we are going to be sharing that story here in just a few minutes, but of course, we have a Review of the Week and this was shared on Apple Podcasts. It's by brittleesmith. It says, “Highly recommend for both VBAC mamas and mamas in general.” It says, “In 2019, after 30 hours of labor, I ended up birthing my son via unplanned C-section. I was devastated and knew my future birth had to be different. I immediately started digging into VBAC resources and came upon your podcast. I listened to every single episode before I even became pregnant with my second baby. The knowledge I gained from both of you as well as your many guests is truly invaluable. This resource is great for any expectant parent, not just VBAC moms and I wish I had discovered you all before my first child. “I am thrilled to announce that I got my VBAC this past February and I owe a lot of thanks to y'all. Keep it up, ladies.” Oh, I love that. I love when people say, “We found you. We learned and then we got our VBAC,” or “We found you. We learned and I didn't get my VBAC but I had a better experience.” This is what this podcast is here for to help people have a better experience, to learn the information, to feel more empowered to make the best choice for you, and even sometimes when the experience doesn't go exactly as we planned, to still have a better experience because we know what our options are. As usual, if you guys have not left a review, we would love them. They actually help Women of Strength find this podcast. They help people find the information and the empowerment for their births, do drop us a review. You can leave it at Apple Podcasts. You can even Google “The VBAC Link” and leave us a review there or wherever you listen to your podcasts, drop a review. 04:30 Clair's first pregnancy and birth Meagan: Okay, cute Clair. It's been so fun. I just was scanning over your stuff and I was just excited because of all of the people you had at your birth, I know personally because you are also here in Utah. I'm so excited to hear your whole story and your journey. I just want to tell you congrats in advance because it is so amazing. So amazing. Clair: Thank you so much. Yeah. We didn't expect to be in Utah, but it turned out to be a really great place to birth so we are really grateful to be here. My story actually starts on the East Coast thousands of miles away and I was due with my first in May 2019. I didn't really know much about birth in general. I'm the oldest child and kind of a rule follower. I was like, “Well, if I just do everything the way I'm supposed to, then birth will just happen.” Yeah. I had a really supportive OB. He has several children of his own. His wife was a friend of mine. He was a really great doctor. But at around 32 weeks, I was flying at the last possible second I was allowed to fly and running through an airport. I kind of felt the baby kind of settled in a weird spot after that. I started having prodromal labor at 39 weeks or something. That went on for about two weeks. What I didn't realize was that these were all signs that maybe he was posterior and not in a great position. My OB, even though he was really wonderful, wasn't trained to determine where the baby is, just that the baby is head down. Meagan: Right. Clair: So at 41+1, early in the morning, I was over a week past my due date. I was losing my mucus plug. “Hey hon, we're going to have a baby today.” I was so excited. We ended up laboring all day at home. We went to the hospital. I had really, really bad back labor so I ended up with a lot of IV fluids. I had a couple more interventions. They broke my water eventually and basically, what ended up happening was that 41+2, so 9 days after my due date, I had dilated to complete, but the baby wasn't dropping at all. He wasn't engaged. He was still really, really high and after a while, his heart rate wasn't tolerating labor well anymore and they recommended a C-section. Meagan: Did they have you push? Clair: I didn't push. Yeah. They said he was still too high. They didn't recommend that. Meagan: Interesting. Isn't that how we get babies down? Clair: Yeah. I'm not really sure. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. Clair: It definitely was a situation he was not used to or prepared for. He was kind of surprised and honestly very sad that I didn't have the birth experience that I wanted. He came to visit the next day and just spent a few minutes with us. His wife came to visit who I was friends with. It was really hard and pretty traumatic, but it also could have been much worse. His bedside manner, I was really well taken care of. 07:50 Recovering from a C-section while moving So that was really hard. It was a challenging physical recovery because I had 48 hours of labor and most of it was without an epidural. It was really intense. The hardest part of that birth was that the first time I saw my son, I saw a picture of him that the nurses showed me because they took him away to be measured right away. So that was really hard. He was 9 pounds, just that plus not being in a great position and being with a provider that didn't have a lot of options of what to do if baby is not descending properly. That was a difficult adjustment to motherhood especially because that baby was born in Louisiana. We were moving back to Virginia where we have a lot of family and friends. We were planning on moving two weeks after the baby was born, but because he came late, we actually left the hospital and started driving north. I would not recommend this. Don't do it. Meagan: That's a lot. That's a lot. Clair: It's a really bad idea. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Clair: His first night out of the hospital was in a hotel in Birmingham, Alabama. Yeah, don't do it. So yeah, that was just hard because we were moving and I'm trying to physically recover. So it was pretty wild. 09:24 Getting pregnant at 3 months postpartum & dual care during COVIDClair: That was my first. My second– we surprise got pregnant three months after that baby was born. Meagan: Okay. Clair: He was a cycle zero pregnancy. I had no idea. I just felt off and was like, “Maybe I should take a test,” and I was so shocked that I was pregnant. Meagan: Oh my gosh, yeah. Clair: Like I said, we were in a new state. I found a birth center that would do my prenatal care because I knew midwives knew more about positioning and how to track it and maybe had some recommendations about things they could do to encourage baby to be in a better position because my pregnancy had been great. But because it was right around 12 months between deliveries, they wanted me to have co-care and deliver at a hospital. I kind of just took their word for it like, “Oh, well if that's what they are recommending, then the risk really must be that much higher.” So then in the middle of all of this, COVID happened and hospitals– I was due in May 2020. Hospitals were kind of changing their– Meagan: Everything. Clair: Yeah, but by the week it felt like. Meagan: By the day. They were changing by the day. It was insane. Clair: Yeah. It was crazy. So it was March. I was due in two months and I had just reached out to the birth center basically begging them to let me deliver out-of-hospital because I was like, “I don't want to deal with the hospital system right now. I know that they are truly supportive,” but they said that they weren't comfortable with that. So my plan was to labor at home with the midwife from the birth center, laboring home with me then to transfer to the hospital while I was in labor. She was supposed to be– that midwife was supposed to come with me as kind of like a doula almost in the hospital just as support. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah, a monitrice or whatever they call them. Clair: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So then I had to find a doctor to do co-care with. I had a new friend in the area who had a C-section with her first and she had a not-great experience with this one doctor in the area, but that was the one that the midwives usually worked with so I kind of took her experience as, “Maybe not. I don't want to work with him.” I found someone else who was really VBAC-supportive historically, but then he had me do an ultrasound to determine scar thickness. This was all in the third trimester. Pregnancy was going really well, but in the third trimester, I had to start doing my appointments with him. Baby was actually breech pretty late on, so I started doing chiropractic care during that pregnancy and she flipped on her own. It was great. I was so grateful. So then at that ultrasound, we determined that yes, she is head down. He was concerned about my scar thickness, although then I did a lot of research and was like, “I'm just not sure that this is actually evidence-based.” Meagan: Yeah. Clair: And then also, they were telling me that she was going to be 12 pounds. I carried a big baby a year before, literally to the day almost and I was like, “This feels just like my first. She's got to be around 9. I don't think she is that much bigger than he was.” Meagan: Was the ultrasound saying 12? Clair: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Meagan: Okay, okay, okay. Clair: Yeah. The ultrasounds measured it and I mean, spoiler alert– it turned out to be way off. She was 9 pounds, 3 ounces. Meagan: Most of the time it can be. Clair: Yeah. Yeah, especially with bigger babies later in pregnancy. I was in a fine headspace with that. I was like, “I know that this can be off. I'm not worried about it,” but they were really nervous and anyway, basically backed me into scheduling a C-section, but I pushed it as far down the due date path as I could because I had gone over with my first and I still really wanted a chance to labor. So chiropractic care this whole time was really helping. I had bad hip pain with my first and I didn't have any with her after that. They wanted to do another scan at 41 weeks later or another ultrasound at 41 weeks just to check on baby, but I got them to do a non-stress test instead because I was like, “What are we going to look at?” She was healthy at 40 weeks. I was really glad that I had advocated for myself there because that was good. I did have one funky day of pre-labor at 40 weeks where I really thought I was going into labor. It was early labor then it stopped. I was checked after that and I was at 4 centimeters. I was walking around for a week and a half it turned out to be at 4 centimeters dilated so it was kind of interesting to know that that could happen. Meagan: Yes. Clair: The midwives I was with said they see that with VBACs a lot too that the body just takes things slower sometimes which was interesting to hear their experience of that. 14:39 Laboring at home to complete & hospital check-inBut yeah, I went into labor at 41+3– or 41+2 I guess– which was when my son was born a year before. I was in early labor all day. My water broke as I was nursing my one-year-old for bed. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Clair: It was kind of crazy and exciting. I was like, “You're going to meet your sister.” I put him down for sleep. The midwife came over. I labored from a 6 to a 10 in three hours. By 9:00 PM, I was fully dilated. She was dropping. At that point, looking back, I wish I had just stayed home because she was almost born at that point, but I didn't because I still had the midwife's voice in the back of my head, “Oh, it's only been a year. You're at a higher risk for rupture.” I just was worried and at that point in labor is not the time to be making decisions like that. Meagan: You're very vulnerable. Clair: Yeah. We ended up transferring. I get to the hospital. They stick a thing up my nose to check if I have COVID. Meagan: Oh jeez, yeah. Clair: So you're in labor already really uncomfortable and they're like, “We're going to swab your nose.” You're like, “Thanks.” They wouldn't let the midwife in which we kind of knew, but she came with us just to see if they would let her in, but they were only allowing one support person so my husband came with me.I ended up getting an on-call doctor who wasn't the doctor that I had been seeing. It actually turned out to be the first doctor that I was trying to avoid in the first place. Meagan: Oh, really? Clair: Yeah, so that I was not happy about. He literally takes one look at my chart and says, “A VBAC? This baby is going to be 12 pounds? Don't even bother trying.” I was like, “Um, okay.” Meagan: You're like, “But I'm 10 centimeters.” Clair: Right. Everything is fine. I'm healthy. She's healthy. Heart rates are all good. We're doing it. It's not a question of can I because it's happening. But he started– I mean, I won't tell you the things he was telling me about what happens if I should have had a C-section and I don't and the whole dead baby thing. The nurses were trying to keep him out of the room for me. It was so bad. It turns out later that he did talk to the midwives the next day and was like, “Why did you send her in at all? Why did you tell her she could VBAC?” Basically, he confided in them, “You don't know what it's like to be sued.” I guess he had something in his past where he had been sued for something that had happened, so he was just really scared but he was taking that out on me. Meagan: Which is not okay. Understandable, but not okay. Clair: Right, yeah. It took a long time for me to get over this and forgive him for some of the things that he said. Anyway, so my body starts having a stress response. Labor starts slowing. My cervix starts swelling a little bit. Basically, my body is like, “We don't feel safe here. We're not having this baby here.”17:49 Clair's second CesareanI did push for two hours, but contractions weren't really working the same way. He started talking about, “Well, if it's an emergency, we have to put you under general,” and all of this stuff so I did end up getting an epidural. I basically got backed into a corner and eventually, we said, “Let's just call it and have the C-section because we can do it on our terms and maybe get a couple of the things we still want.” We really wanted delayed cord clamping. I really wanted to be able to see her right away which I didn't get to do with my son. So we felt like if we just called it, we would be able to do some of those things because it wasn't an emergent situation. So really, for no medical reason, I had my second C-section. She was 9 pounds, 3 ounces and the doctor actually said to my husband after that, “Oh, by the way, your wife has a fine pelvis. There is no reason she can't birth vaginally. She can totally do this again in the future.” Meagan: Oh gosh. Clair: My husband was like, “I don't want to talk to you right now about that.” Meagan: Yeah, like get out of my face. Clair: Yeah, after you just did what you did and backed us into surgery, and he just wanted to be able to control the situation. Meagan: Yeah. 19:08 An emotional recoveryClair: So emotionally, it was really hard to recover from that. I had a really hard time just working through some of the things that he had said and the images he put in my mind, but it was physically a lot easier. Meagan: Yeah. Clair: We did move again after that baby, but we only moved within the state so that was easier. We move a lot and we've moved with every baby at some point which is kind of crazy. 21:22 Clair's third pregnancySo that's my second baby. And then about, I don't know, 15 months later, we got pregnant with our third. We were pretty excited. We had a really early, early miscarriage between those two and it was still really hard and painful but it was like the day after we found out we were pregnant so that was a surprise and that made us think, “Well, are we ready for another baby?” I kind of just started like, “Yeah, actually I think we are,” even though at the time, I felt totally overwhelmed. So that's kind of beautiful because if we wouldn't have had that baby, we wouldn't have our third right now. We were in the same state. The VBAC laws in the state are pretty lenient so I end up having the opportunity to find a home birth midwife because I just at this point really did not want to go back to the hospital after everything. There really weren't any hospital practices that I knew of and I kind of looked around a lot that were VBAC-after-two-C-sections supportive. So I look around. I found a home birth midwife. I had a beautiful pregnancy. Kind of in the back of our head the whole time, we were thinking, “If we just stayed home with our daughter, things would have happened naturally. It just would have been fine.” The whole pregnancy, I was a little bit nervous, but I had some really, really awesome supportive friends– the same friend who had a C-section and had a VBAC since then. She was so in my corner and another good friend of ours were just cheering me on the whole time. My midwife was really, really supportive. I did have some fears and worries, but I was just like, “We're just going to walk it out. I have no reason to believe I can't birth this baby vaginally.” I was continuing chiropractic care. The friend who had a VBAC had since become a doula. I planned on having her there. 23:38 Third labor with a home birth midwifeClair: I went into labor six days after my due date after this pretty beautiful, smooth pregnancy in the early morning and then again, I was dilated to 10 by 9:00 in the morning. It was five hours later after my–Meagan: You labor beautifully. Clair: Right. At this point, I was like, “I know my body can do this,” but I just had never made it all the way. I was starting to feel pushy. I pushed for hours and hours and hours which turned out to be really hard. The midwife, when I started pushing was like, “We're going to have a baby so soon,” and then– 24:08 Pause in story – read caption!24:20 Fourth pregnancy Clair: My son was nine months old when we got pregnant with our fourth. Like I said, we had moved to this mountain town in Colorado. We were far away from a lot of things, so it was really hard for me to find a provider in general let alone one who was going to be supportive of a VBAC after three C-sections. I was really open to if I needed to have a fourth C-section, I was open to that. I just wanted to do what was going to be best so I was looking at all of my options. All of our family was back east though and we were looking at support after the baby was born so we were thinking we might go back to Virginia and have the baby there. I ended up doing remote care with my midwife from my previous birth, my last birth, for all of my prenatals. Everything was looking great. The bloodwork looked great. I was taking my blood pressure and checking with her occasionally. I was doing that with her while also looking for a provider and trying to discern what we were going to do for the birth. I should also mention that during this time, I started going to pelvic floor physical therapy. It had been recommended to me a few times, but I never pursued it before. My chiropractors in Colorado had a really strong recommendation for someone that they really liked, so I started going to pelvic floor PT. She found all of this chronic tension that I didn't realize I had. Actually, my hip pain had come back this pregnancy and releasing my pelvic floor actually took care of my hip pain. It was all referred pelvic floor pain which was so wild, but I felt relief within a couple of visits. She knew really good exercises to be doing during my pregnancy. It also made me more in tune with the rest of my body. I realized where else I was carrying tension and was better in check with my moods, so that was a huge game changer I think. I want to make sure that I mention that because I think that really, really impacted this pregnancy and birth. So we did an anatomy scan at 20 weeks and everything was looking good. It was a baby boy, but we found out he was measuring big which is normal for my babies at this point. Kind of around the same time, I guess, my husband got this really amazing job opportunity in Utah which meant we would have to move again. I was due in October with this baby and we would be moving during the summer. This time, we would move before the baby was born then hopefully have a couple of months to settle in. Because of that, I switched gears and started looking for providers in Utah so that I could have a pretty seamless transition. I found a really awesome midwife. I told her my whole story and when we were in Utah just interviewing and checking it out during the winter, she heard all of my stories and said, “I don't see why you can't birth vaginally. I think you are an excellent candidate for VBAC. I would gladly take you on.” Meagan: She is one of the most amazing midwives in Utah, too. Clair: Yeah. She has a ton of experience, too. I love how she has that much experience, so I really felt like she has seen it all. She has seen a lot and if she says I have a really good chance, but also, I totally trusted her to step in if we needed to step in and try different things during delivery. That's the one thing I felt like could have gone differently with my third baby was maybe we could have intervened a little earlier and maybe that would have gone differently. She also promised my husband that she would be straight with him because he kind of had an experience of people trying to shield him from the truth or whatever in the past just to kind of protect him in the birth process. He just wants honesty, so she was like, “I'm going to be really honest with you the whole time. I'm going to tell you exactly what I think.” It was just a really good fit for our family.28:49 Moving to Utah Clair: I went back and started packing up the house and everything, but I knew that I had a really solid provider waiting for me in Utah. We moved at the beginning of August. I was maybe 30 weeks or so, 29 weeks, 31 weeks, or something like that when we moved. I thought I had two months or so to kind of get settled and unpack the house and everything, then at about 35 weeks, I started having some pre-labor stuff and a few contractions, but I thought they were just really strong Braxton Hicks at night. I lost a bit of my mucus plug and that was consistent for about a week, but because with my second, I had a whole day of labor and then nothing for two weeks, I thought, “Oh, I've still got two weeks. Baby will be here right at 37, but that's fine. I think I still have a couple weeks left.” I checked with my midwife and she was like, “Are you concerned about going into early labor?” I was like, “I don't think so.” She goes, “Great. Don't worry about it.” To my surprise on a Sunday night at 5:00 PM coming back from the grocery store to pack lunch for my husband for his first official day of work the next day, my water breaks. I come home and I'm like, “I think my water broke.” He goes, “Uh, okay. This is really unexpected,” because with all of our other babies, I went past my due date and we had been in our house less than a month. I called my friend who is a doula now. I was just kind of out of it. I didn't really know what to do. She walked me through. “Okay, call your midwife. See what's going on.” I called her and she was like, “We can check to make sure that your water broke, but if you are pretty sure, you've had several children so if you are pretty sure it's your water, you should just go to the hospital.” She told me exactly which hospital to go to which I was really grateful for because I had no idea where to go and I really trusted her recommendation. Meagan: You were closer to a different hospital, honestly. You could have gone to this other hospital. Clair: Yes. Yeah, exactly. I was so glad that I called her. I walked in and they were like, “Oh, your midwife called ahead for you. Great. Come here. Let's check you out.” I was at a 5, so I was 5 centimeters dilated already which was crazy. They did an ultrasound just to double-check his position. He was head down which they were happy with. This OB comes in who was on call. She sits down and just says, “Well, frankly, I don't think a VBAC after three C-sections is too risky, but it's just risk. I don't see any health problems right now. You're fine.” They hooked me up to a monitor. Baby was fine. “So we're not going to force you to do anything that you don't want to do. You're going to make the call.” We were really surprised because when we knew we were going back in a hospital setting, especially after our last two experiences, my husband and I were like, “Whatever happens happens.” He even said, which was so great, “Let me deal with them. You deal with the baby.” Meagan: Mmm, yeah. Clair: “You don't need to go in fighting. I'll go in fighting and you deal with the baby.” But then we didn't even have to fight. They were disarmed right away.Meagan: Which is amazing because especially with preterm– Clair: Exactly. I expected a frenzy and it wasn't. It was peaceful. We just basically said, “We're not going to do that. We're not going to just do an automatic C-section. We're going to labor.” They looked at my ultrasound, saw that he was measuring big, and said, “We actually would have changed your dates in our practice with this ultrasound so we think you are closer to 38 weeks.” I was pretty confident in my dates because I had been using a monitor to check ovulation and everything. I still felt pretty confident that he was 35 weeks, so I really didn't want to induce or make labor happen any sooner than it started because I knew that his lungs could benefit from another couple of days in utero. We talked that through a little bit and the next day, there was a new on-call OB. The nurses were great. They listened to our whole story and they were like, “We are willing and ready and prepared to support you.” So the next day, we get a new on-call OB and she just says the same thing, “I don't think this is a very good idea, but I'm not going to force you to do anything.” She listens to our reasoning both why we don't want to induce and also about a VBAC and she goes and she calls the midwife who had been supposed to deliver or catch the baby. She says to the midwife, “I actually don't think this is a very good idea. Why did you send you here? It is really, really risky.” The midwife says, “It's not as risky as you think it is. Actually, go do the research a little bit. There are not great numbers out there, but what we have isn't what you are saying it is.” So that doctor actually called a maternal-fetal medicine doctor at a different hospital that she knew and asked, “Hey, what do you think about a VBAC after three C-sections? Would you recommend it for a mom?” He basically gave her the statistics of the risk of complications with a fourth C-section versus the risk of uterine rupture with a VBAC and he said, “The numbers aren't great, but as far as we can't be 100% confident. We don't have–”Meagan: Enough evidence. Clair: “--a lot of evidence, but I would absolutely support her. It's actually less risky for her to do this vaginally if she can.” This doctor comes back and tells us that. We were shocked. She said, “I actually think a VBAC is the best thing for you and your baby. I'm going to transfer you over to our hospital midwives–” which was wild and so not what we expected. She was like, “Because I think that's more like the model of care you wanted.” We were just floored because we never– yeah. We never expected that from a doctor. We had never been respected in that way. That alone was just so healing. 35:34 Midwifery care in the hospitalClair: This midwife comes in and I chat with her a little bit. She made sure I got some food. I hadn't really eaten much since I got there. Meagan: I bet. Clair: It was great. They just really attended to me as a person. I still was not in labor. They weren't checking me because my membranes were ruptured and she just talked me through that. “There's really not that much of an increased risk of infection if you are waiting longer as long as you are not doing checks. If you don't have an infection already, you're probably not going to get one essentially.” We did lots and lots of things in that 24-hour period. We prayed. We asked for so many prayers from our friends. We called the midwife and chatted with her a bunch. My husband– I joke that he was my daddy doula during that time because we learned a bunch of things during our other pregnancies. We were doing a Miles circuit. We were doing Spinning Babies and abdominal lifts and everything we could think of. I was pumping. They got me a hospital pump to use. I was showering and trying to relax. We even discussed leaving the hospital and going home. We talked that through with them, but I felt pretty confident that once I went into labor, it was going to be pretty strong labor and I was confident he was pre-term. I wanted to stay. My kids were able to come visit which was huge. That was so helpful. I did a lot of fear release conversation with the hospital midwife was a big deal. I was just really worried. My oldest was only four and I was really worried about, can I do this? Can I be a mother to these four babies? It's so much more manageable when you are pregnant. The baby is inside, so I think that was actually really helpful. I think that was kind of keeping me from labor in a sense. We just kind of did that for the next day. I was sleeping, but I was continually being monitored so my sleeping was really fitful. At 2:00 PM the next day, my nurses from their first shift are back. They were like, “Oh no, you're still here and you're not in labor and there's no baby. What can we do?” I just said, “I'm so tired. I just have not been sleeping well. Every time I roll over, this monitor messes up the baby's heart rate with mine so people come flying in the room and I just can't really rest right now.” She talked with the hospital midwife who was on call that day and she really wanted to get things going. She was a little bit more nervous about the length of time my waters had been broken and was stronger with recommending inducing or something. She said, “Yeah. Let's just get her off the monitors. We have two days of great readings from this baby. Let's get her off the monitors. Let's turn down the lights. Let's get her in a new room, fresh environment, turn the lights down, and let her take a nap.” My husband even left. He went to go get a snack or something outside of the hospital just to totally give me my space.38:47 Active labor beginsAround 3:30, I finally get tucked in for a nap and fall asleep immediately. I was so tired. Meagan: I'm sure. Clair: It was just a lot of mental stress and I wake up an hour later at 4:30 to a rip roaring, super strong contraction. I couldn't even believe it. I was like, “Oh my gosh. Napping worked.” It was just what I needed. It was like my body just needed to be left alone. Meagan: And even probably you mentally needed to just get out of the moment and just be. Clair: Yes. Yeah. No, definitely. I start timing them and within five contractions, they were all lasting over a minute. They were all about a minute and a half to three minutes apart. I call my husband. I'm like, “You've got to come back to the hospital right now.” They were really strong too, like super, super strong. Meagan: And keeping in mind you were 5 centimeters so you could be tipping into that transition active labor from no labor. Clair: Right? Meagan: No labor to active labor. Clair: Yeah, just thrown right into it. Yeah, it was wild. I felt like I was kind of behind from the beginning like I couldn't get on top of it for that reason. It was really intense. I called the nurse in the room because I needed to go to the bathroom and I wanted to stand up, but I was like, “I don't know what's going ot happen when I stand up, so I'm going to call her in.” She came. She observed me in between some contractions and was like, “I think the midwife should come.” I was like, “No, it just started. Don't worry. Don't bother her.” She was like, “No, really. We should get the midwife in here.” The midwife comes in and checks me. I'm only at a 6 so I was a little bit discouraged because it had been a half hour-45 minutes of these strong contractions at that point, but 90% effaced. Baby was dropping. Everyone in the room was like, “This is really good news.” I was like, “Yeah, there is still a lot of work to do.” I just refused to accept that. So I'm kind of wandering around the room just laboring standing up in different positions and supported by a nurse sometimes, then I end up kneeling on the ground and laboring over a couch just leaning on it. The contractions really picked up. There really was not much of a break between them at all so I felt like I couldn't release the contraction. Everything you hear is like, “Release the contraction. Let all of the tension out of your body,” and I couldn't do any of that. So I'm telling my husband, “I need an epidural. I'm not going to be able to do this for a long period of time. I'm not getting any kind of a break. I can't relax.” Meagan: You were already so tired. Clair: Yeah. I need an epidural. I'm not going to be able to do this naturally even though that's what I planned. He was like, “No, you're fine.” I was so mad at him, but he would look at the midwife, I guess I found out later and she was like, “No, this is happening.” She was really encouraging him, so he was like, “Nope, you don't need it. We're going to be there really soon.” Meagan: Good daddy doula, I guess, there. He knows what you want and will help you get it.Clair: Exactly. Exactly. I'm not saying he was just ignoring me– Meagan: Right, but he was like, “Ah, she's got this.” Clair: Yeah, exactly. I guess the midwife had observed some kind of a change in me because at 7:00 PM– this is 2.5 hours after these contractions start– she checks me again and she asked to check me. I was at 10. I was feeling pushy, but not in the same way I had before with other labors, so I was surprised. All of the nurses in the room were like, “This is great news!” In my head, I'm like, “I've been there before. I've been there three times before. It is not over yet.” I was still very much in the mindset of, “No, we've got work to do.” I end up trying a couple of different positions to push. I end up pushing on the hospital bed kind of supported by pillows on all fours. They put the back of the bed up and I pushed there for about a half hour or so, maybe 20 minutes in. They were like, “Oh my gosh. We can see the head. This is so great.” Because of my third baby, I was just like, “That's news, but it's doesn't mean it's over.” Meagan: Not what I need quite yet. Clair: I've been here before. So I end up, yeah. I was just kind of like, “I've been here before.That's not news to me, I guess.” But then I really felt a ring of fire and I was like, “Oh my gosh. This is actually happening. This is a new thing. This is a new sensation. This is a new place that I haven't been before.” So I end up, yeah. He ends up being born. I pushed with all my might. The midwife had to tell me, “Chill out. Slow down a little bit. You don't want to tear.” But yeah. It was just so beautiful. I was able to birth him vaginally and then they were like, “You have to roll over so you can hold him.” They were telling me what to do because I was in such disbelief when I was born. I got to hold him skin-to-skin for the first time of any of my babies which was such a gift. My husband cut the cord after it stopped pulsing and it was so peaceful. A couple of the nurses were crying because they had been there and were really invested in our story. The midwife was like, “You reminded me why I'm in this field. This is such a beautiful, redemptive story. I'm so happy for you.” I did have a small, little first-degree tear but it really wasn't bad. He ended up being 7 pounds, 7 ounces so I'm pretty confident that he was late pre-term because that is still small for my babies. Meagan: Yeah, because they are normally 9. Clair: So he was definitely earlier. 45:04 Circumvallate placenta I had a circumvallate placenta which is where part of the placenta turns in on itself when it is developing so there is a smaller area where the placenta can adhere to the uterus. Sometimes that can be related to IUGR and a couple of other things, but it's really hard to find via ultrasound. I kind of researched it later and sometimes, it's cause for big concern but there's really not much to do about it. There's just not a whole lot to be done. I'm glad I didn't know that because I feel like would have been a source of worry but unnecessary worry because there's nothing I really would have done differently in my pregnancy. Meagan: I wonder if that was your body being like, “Okay, it's time. I'm done doing my job. Now get the baby out.” Clair: Yeah, it can also be associated with pre-term or early labor. Meagan: Okay. Clair: Yeah because I was trying to find a reason. This was so strange. My midwife wasn't worried about it at all. She was just like, “Oh, interesting. Look at your placenta. This is so cool.” Meagan: In all of the years of encapsulating them, I've never seen one like that. Clair: Yeah, it's kind of rare but also, yeah. They're not sure why it happens. I don't know why it happened. Some people say babies that gestate at elevation are sometimes smaller too like at high, high elevation and they come earlier so I'm wondering if maybe that can be connected. I don't know if there are more placenta abnormalities in that way at elevation. I don't know. But yeah, he had great APGARs. He latched super well. It was so cool. The first OB that I had called me the next morning in the hospital room just saying, “Congratulations. We're go excited for you.” My second OB, the one who basically said, “I think this is the right thing for you to try,” came to the room because she was on call again and she congratulated me and just said, “Thanks for letting us be a part of this. This was so impactful to everybody in our practice.” Meagan: Yeah. Clair: I don't think they would have taken me on as a client upfront. Meagan: Probably not. Clair: For them to see this, and then I talked to the head midwife of that hospital OB/midwife practice and she was just saying that this is their hope that more women who really can labor without intervention or are given the chance to labor without intervention is kind of their goal. She was so happy that so many of the people in her practice got to be a witness to that because they really got to see what happens especially down to napping and leaving me alone is what helped me go into labor. Meagan: Yes. There was a lot of learning happening on all of their behalf, from the OB side, on the nurse side, on the midwife's side, there was a lot of learning. What I love so much is when places see births like this after– I mean, I'm not saying the midwives or anything. I think the OBs were originally like, “I don't think this is a good idea,” but then seeing it happen, it's like, “Okay. Let's take a step back,” because so many hospitals around the world just shut people out. “No.” They might not, like you said, have supported you walking in. “I've had three C-sections. I really want to have a VBAC.” She probably would have said the same. Maybe she wouldn't have, though. Maybe she would have said, “I don't know if it's a really good idea, but we can support you and let you go.” But would it have been the same situtation? I don't know. They are one of my favorite hospitals in that direction up north, so I love hearing, I love hearing all of this. And then to the point where the OB is like, “Hey, I recognize you are in my care, but I know you came from this care. Why don't we put you back in that model of care because we offer that here?” Just these fine details that these providers paid attention to was a huge deal. Clair: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's funny because I had a feeling that whole pregnancy that I was going to have a hospital VBAC. Meagan: Really? Clair: It was in the back of my head. “I think I'm going to end up in the hospital, but I also feel like I'm going to have a VBAC. I don't know,” but it was this weird thought because I definitely was not going to pursue providers in the hospital, so yeah. The fact that that happened, I was like, “Wow. This is just so crazy for those reasons.” Meagan: So awesome. Clair: Yeah. I just really feel like not being afraid to voice what we wanted was such a big part of this because if we hadn't spoken up, even though they were very, very willing to listen and were receptive, we didn't know that so we went in saying, “This is what we want and this is why we want it.” I think that having a conversation where you think the doors might be closed is good to have. Now, it's also good to be aware of when a provider is not actually going to be supportive of you, but in our case, we really didn't have any choice. We were where we were and just to, I think, the more calm conversation that is had and the more providers can experience births like this, the more it will become normalized which is really the goal here. Meagan: Absolutely. Well, huge congrats on your beautiful birth and I'm so happy for you. I just love hearing how it all unfolded even though in the beginning and at the end, it wasn't exactly– well maybe I guess it was something that you envisioned, but what on paper you were putting out that you envisioned this birth center birth with this awesome midwife, but I just love how it unfolded so much. Clair: Yeah. It was so healing for my husband. It was so healing for me. Yeah.” Meagan: Good. Good. Well, thank you again for being here with us. Clair: Thank you.ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

What is PPROM? Preterm premature rupture of the membranes (PPROM) is a pregnancy complication. In this condition, the sac (amniotic membrane) surrounding your baby breaks (ruptures) before week 37 of pregnancy. Once the sac breaks, you have an increased risk for infection. Today's guest experienced 4 losses, 9 IUIs, and 5 IVF transfers.  Her most recent loss was due to PPROM and incompetent cervix of her son Gabriel at 19 weeks gestation. Her first loss was due to a left ovarian ectopic pregnancy, her 2nd loss was at 6 weeks with no fetal heartbeat, 3rd loss was a chemica pregnancy, and 4th loss was Gabriel.  Tynisha has a story to tell about how much she and her partner spent in their journey to be come parents. Ty and her partner take us on the journey through ups and downs and discuss how they chose donor sperm, and why they continue on their pursuit to become parents. In this episode, Ty shares how she used to be embasrrased to share her journey because non of her friends and family could relate.  Ty and her wife share their love in this episode and how this podcast helped save their marriage.  Its an emotional one because their love and desire to become parents radiates on screen.  Become a Sisters in Loss Birth Bereavement, and Postpartum Doula Here Living Water Doula Services Book Recommendations and Links Below You can shop my Amazon Store for the Book Recommendations You can follow Sisters in Loss on Social Join our Healing Collective Online Support Group Join the Sisters in Loss Online Community Sisters in Loss TV Youtube Channel Sisters in Loss Instagram Sisters in Loss Facebook Sisters in Loss Twitter You can follow Erica on Social Erica's Website Erica's Instagram Erica's Facebook Erica's Twitter

In this  Birth Story Friday, Elysia shares her unique birth story which involves a diagnosis of preeclampsia, a two vessel cord in her baby, and PPROM when her water broke before the 37 week mark. Despite these challenges, and having to be induced with Pitocin (something she had been hoping to avoid), Elysia was able to have a smooth birth, much like the one she had desired, with the help of her midwife and supportive hospital staff. She discusses her prenatal preparations, the benefits of childbirth education, her postpartum experiences, and more. Elysia's story leaves listeners with an encouraging reminder that even when pregnancies have seemingly scary curveballs, individuals can still have a beautiful birth experience. In This Episode: 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 01:26 Elysia's Pregnancy Journey 03:03 Elysia's Birth Story Begins 06:23 Elysia's Labor and Delivery Experience 11:30 Postpartum Recovery and Challenges 13:47 Advice for Expecting Mothers 15:44 Understanding Two Vessel Cord 18:40 Conclusion and Offerings

Jessica Leigh shares the story of her son's birth and it was nothing like she could have planned or ever imagined. It was found that her cervix was starting to shorten at 28 weeks, then with funneling at 32 weeks. This ultimately resulted in the premature rupture of membranes at 35 weeks. The birth of her son was fast and the story doesn't end there – what followed was a postpartum hemorrhage, surgery…then more surgery at 3 weeks postpartum.Make sure you follow the Messy in the Middle Instagram page: https://instagram.com/_messyinthemiddle_?igshid=NTdlMDg3MTY=And if you want to share your story, please get in contact with me either through the Instagram page or email me at messyinthemiddle.fertility@gmail.com

In the ninth episode of The Motherwhelm, I am joined by Danielle, a first-time mother from Canada, who gave birth to her son, Jack, at 24 weeks. Danielle shares her experience of co-parenting with a medical team, the importance of listening to her intuition, and the sense of belonging that comes from connecting with a community of fellow NICU mums who truly understand. Instagram accounts mentioned in this episode: @nicu_experience @miraclemoonuk @preemiehood

Today, Mara Smith joins Ali on the show to talk about her family building journey, which includes her diagnosis of PCOS, and what it was like to do IVF 20-plus years ago. (Her IVF twins are now in college.) Mara shares how it was a very lonely experience more than two decades ago, since not really anyone was talking about it. She also talks about PPROM (Preterm premature rupture of the membranes -- a pregnancy complication she faced), NICU life with her newborn twins, and what happened when she and her husband decided that after their twins were born, they were not yet finished building their family. For more, check out www.inspirotequila.com TOPICS COVERED IN THIS EPISODE: IVF; PCOS: IVF twin pregnancy; PPROM; TTC; ART; NICU life; premature babies EPISODE SPONSORS: FERTILITY RALLY @fertilityrally www.fertilityrally.com No one should go through infertility alone. Join the Worst Club with the Best Members at fertilityrally.com. We offer 4 to 5 support groups per week, 4 private Facebook groups, tons of curated IRL and virtual events, and an entire community of more than 500 women available to support you, no matter where you are in your journey. Join now at link in bio on IG @fertilityrally or at www.fertilityrally.com RECEPTIVA DX ReceptivaDx is the only test that can identify endometriosis, progesterone resistance and endometritis in a single sample, all causes for unexplained infertility and thus success rates of IVF treatments. ReceptivaDx includes BCL6, a marker that identifies uterine inflammation most often associated with asymptomatic (silent) endometriosis. BCL6 is found in more than 50% of women with unexplained infertility and over 65% of women with two or more IVF failures. If positive for the ReceptivaDx test, treatment options can improve the chances for a successful live birth 5 fold! Learn more at receptivadx.com or download our app “Receptivadx" -- and USE CODE INFERTILEAF23 for $75 off the test BERRY Introducing the Berry Fertility app, a free way to manage your fertility treatments like Egg Freezing, IVF, and embryo transfer all in one place. The Berry app can help you understand the stages of your treatment, look up information about your medications, and set reminders for your doses and appointments. You'll also find simple to follow injection videos, tutorials, as well as articles with pro tips on how to manage your injections.The Berry team is always available to provide support and answer your questions. It's 100% free to use, and you can find it in the Apple app store. Try Berry Fertility, the trusted partner for every fertility journey. Go to https://www.berryfertility.com/ Our Sponsors: Check out Mosie Baby and use my code INFERTILEAF for a great deal: https://mosiebaby.com/ Support this podcast at: https://redcircle.com/infertile-af/donations Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/infertile-af/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Navigating Mental Health Through Pregnancy Loss, PPROM, and Severe Preeclampsia" with “The Emily Camille” --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/blackboldbeautiful/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/blackboldbeautiful/support

Links: Get your breast pump, lactation support, and maternity compression garments for free at aeroflowbreastpumps.com/birthhour and use promo code BIRTHHOUR15 at for 15% off supplies and accessories. Know Your Options Online Childbirth Course Beyond the First Latch Course (comes free with KYO course) Support The Birth Hour via Patreon!

On this week's podcast episode, we have the honor of hearing DNM team member Jess' NICU journey with her twin boys, Jamie + Morgan! Jess was admitted to the hospital at 30 weeks and 2 days due to preterm premature rupture of the membrane (PPROM). After 2 days in the hospital, Jess went into a very quick labor and delivered her boys via an emergency c- section. Jamie was discharged after 41 days, and Morgan was discharged after 60 days. Throughout the episode Jess shares openly her high-risk pregnancy and her boy's early delivery, what it was like to journey through the NICU during the Covid pandemic, and how her boys are thriving today.To twin and multiples mamas in our sisterhood, we hope you feel heard throughout this episode. This sisterhood honors not only your children's resilience, but also yours NICU mama.Head here for the episode transcription.To get connected with DNM:Website | Private Facebook Group | Instagram Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Episode 150: Re-update on COVID Vaccines and Cervical CancerCOVID vaccines have been updated (again). The bivalent m-RNA COVID-19 vaccines are no longer authorized in the US. Sabrina explains that the monovalent COVID-19 vaccines will be available soon to target XBB lineage and more. Future Dr. Rodriguez explains the USPSTF cervical cancer screening guidelines. Dr. Arreaza adds comments and insight.  You are listening to Rio Bravo qWeek Podcast, your weekly dose of knowledge brought to you by the Rio Bravo Family Medicine Residency Program from Bakersfield, California, a UCLA-affiliated program sponsored by Clinica Sierra Vista, Let Us Be Your Healthcare Home. This podcast was created for educational purposes only. Visit your primary care provider for additional medical advice.Celebrating our episode 150.Written by Hector Arreaza, MD.In our previous episode, we gave you an update on COVID-19 vaccines, but we need to give a new update. This is the risk you take when you try to become a news agency instead of an educational podcast, so you need to keep giving updates, and we'll tell you about the newest change in COVID-19 vaccines in a few minutes. This is episode number 150! And I wanted to take a moment to celebrate this milestone. Our first episode was released a few days before the lockdown for COVID-19 on March 3, 2020. Those were gloomy days. I was excited about having a weekly podcast, but I also was overwhelmed by COVID-19. I remember considering putting a hold on the podcast, but I decided to continue. We had a few episodes about COVID-19 and, as expected for a novel disease, we made some mistakes. For example, we gave the wrong recommendations to not wear a mask at the very beginning of the lockdown, but that was the initial recommendation. However, I got to accentuate the positive, I'm proud that we were probably the first place to report hiccups as a symptom of COVID. Soon I realized it would be impossible to keep up with the daily changes in recommendations and updates on COVID, so we focused on other topics, and it has been a great experience so far. This podcast was created for the Rio Bravo residents, and thankfully the medical students have become the main collaborators of this program. I have enjoyed every second I have spent with all our guests, including residents, nurses, medical assistants, specialists, scientists, and of course medical students. I feel very fortunate to have reviewed many relevant topics of family medicine with you. A colleague once mentioned to me that I may run out of topics, but I think it is impossible to run out of topics in family medicine, don't you think? So, I'm hoping to continue bringing to you brief discussions and pearls of knowledge every week. Now, let's listen to Sabrina.Re-update on COVID-19 Vaccines.Written by Sabrina Hawatmeh, MSIII, Ross University School of Medicine.Hi, my name is Sabrina Hawatmeh, I'm a 3rd-year medical student from Ross University School of Medicine. I'm so excited to be here today, huge thank you to Dr. Arreaza for having me here today! As mentioned by Dr. Arreaza, during our episode 149 we gave you an update on COVID-19 vaccines and now today it's time for a new update. Most recently, Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna have updated their vaccines to target specific strains of the virus, and the American Academy of Family Physicians has given its approval to federal actions allowing the use of these updated vaccines for the Fall/Winter of 2023. The decision follows FDA approval for these vaccines for children and adults aged 12 and older, as well as CDC recommendation of emergency use authorization for children aged 6 months to 11 years. The AAFP's Board Chair, Sterling Ransone, M.D., accepted the recommendation to approve these actions as of September 14th, 2023. The vaccines may be available soon for administration. Bivalent vaccines were the most recent formula administered for immunization. Studies had shown that there was continued protection against circulating sublineages of Omicron and XBB.1.5. However, the vaccine effectiveness against Omicron decreases over time. Neutralizing antibody titers against XBB sublineages via bivalent vaccines are lower compared to titers induced by the matched BA.4/BA.5 sublineage. So, it makes sense that all this data suggested that vaccine modification be directed toward more closely matched strain composition to current circulating sublineages. I also think it's worth noting that the original version of Omicron is no longer circulating—neither is the original strain of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. For that reason, updated vaccines were created by Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech, so the bivalent vaccines are no longer authorized for use in the United States. The updated vaccine recommendations include eligibility criteria for different age groups, regardless of previous vaccination status, and specify the number of doses needed. The CDC has also updated its vaccine recommendations, especially for moderately or severely immunocompromised individuals. The new vaccines are monovalent mRNA vaccines, designed to protect against omicron subvariant, XBB 1.5. While the subvariant XBB.1.5 is the target of the vaccines, the expectation is that they will offer immunization against multiple current strains. (XXB lineage, EG.5.1 (Eris), Fl.1.5.1 (Fornax), BA.2.86). Moderna (randomized controlled trial of 101 individuals) and Pfizer (mouse studies) evidence suggests that the vaccines will also serve to protect against the new mutated subvariant that has recently sparked some concern, BA.2.86. As a reminder, FDA granted emergency use authorization for Novavax COVID-19 vaccine, Adjuvant in July 2022 for the prevention of COVID-19 pneumonia in patients aged 12 and older. Now the updated Novavax formula for 2023-2024 (targeting the XBB strain) was authorized by CDC on September 12, 2023, but it is still under review by the U.S. FDA for emergency use authorization for individuals aged 12 and older. When authorized, Novavax's protein-based vaccine will be the only non-mRNA COVID vaccine available in the U.S. These updated vaccines are expected to be covered by most public and private insurance plans, but concerns have been raised about uninsured individuals having to pay out of pocket for the vaccines, which cost $120 to $130. The AAFP urged the government to ensure equitable access and financial support for primary care practices offering these vaccines.Cervical Cancer Screening Guidelines. Written by Adriana Rogriguez, MSIV, Ross University School of Medicine.Arreaza: Cervical canceris the 3rd most common gynecological cancer in the US. For 2023, the American Cancer Society estimates that about 13,000 new cases of cervical cancer will be diagnosed, and more than 4,000 women will die this year. Cervical cancer was once one of the most fatal types of cancer in women, but the mortality rate has been significantly decreased with the increased use of pap smears and the HPV test. Adriana: Another fun fact is that cervical cancer is the only cancer preventable by a vaccine—the HPV vaccine.Arreaza: Why is cervical cancer screening important?Adriana: Cervical Cancer screening is very important as it reduces mortality due to cervical disease. Intervention at early stages reduces the development of squamous cell carcinoma or adenocarcinoma of the cervix due to HPV. In fact, studies have shown that in resource-poor settings, one cervical screening reduces the incidence of cervical cancer by up to 50%. Arreaza: What would prevent a patient from wanting to get a Pap smear?Adriana: Many things can and do deter a patient from obtaining their cervical cancer screening. Patient discomfort and the psychosocial consequences of performing these screenings such as anxiety should be taken into consideration. Personal example. Also, a patient may be concerned about the costs, the effects of false-positive results, the risks of treatment during pregnancy (ex., increased risk/o 2nd-trimester pregnancy loss, PPROM, preterm delivery, perinatal mortality). Arreaza: We should mention the cultural implications of a pap smear in a 21-year-old who is considered a “virgin”. Some cultures try to preserve the hymen intact as a sign of purity. You can address this concern with your patients and explain that a hymen is not always present, it may be easily ripped by sports, biking, tampon use, and more. A small speculum may be used for your patients who have never been sexually active at age 21. Arreaza: We perform screening BEFORE we diagnose a disease. The age of diagnosis of cervical cancer is age 50, most patients fall between 35 and 45 years old. How can we determine who is at risk and needs a pap smear? Adriana: When looking at cervical screening guidelines and recommendations, we are looking at the patient who is: At average risk for cervical disease – a patient who is asymptomatic, immunocompetent, and has had all previous cervical cancer screening results within normal limit.At sufficiently low-risk for cervical disease and can return to routine age-based screening: 

Amaris and Kathy talk openly about their vastly different pregnancy journeys. Kathy touches on the loss of her first baby which led to her journey with incompetent cervix. She shares the story of her high risk pregnancy with her now rainbow baby. Amaris talks about her experience of giving birth prematurely and the stressors that came with her career at the time. She sheds light on the differences between her two pregnancies and labor and delivery.

On this episode, Ingrid joins us to share her birth trauma and NICU journey.  Ingird experienced PPROM and placental abruption which led to an emergency c-section under GA, while also forcing her to switch providers in the midst of all this chaos.  Her son spent 147 days in the NICU, 40 of those on a ventilator. Ingrid shares about her change in identity after becoming a mom to a medically complex child and leaving her career to be a full-time care provider. Ingrid also touches on the importance of advocacy and trusting your gut when things don't feel right.If you have a birth trauma story you would like to share with us, click this link and fill out the form!For more birth trauma content and a community full of love and support, head to my Instagram at @birthtrauma_mama.Learn more about the support and services I offer through The Birth Trauma Mama Therapy & Support Services.

Olivia shares her hospital birth story with a planned epidural. She shares how she prepared for birth with an open mind, how the MamasteFit Birth Education course prepared her for navigating her water breaking before 37 weeks, an unexpected induction, and laboring for as long as she could before pushing with an epidural. In this episode: What is Premature Pre-labor Rupture of Membrane, AKA PPROM (1:20) Navigating pregnancy after loss (2:29) PPROM at 36 weeks (8:23) Getting admitted and talking about induction (11:03) A membrane sweep and internal monitoring (13:27) Deciding to go for the epidural (15:42) Refusing an episiotomy (21:14) Advice for others (26:51) ---- Want to share your birth story on our podcast? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Submit your birth story on our website! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Prepare for your birth with us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Childbirth Education Courses⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Prenatal Fitness Programs⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Pelvic Floor Prep for Birth⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠website here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠!⁠

Content note: We strongly encourage you to listen to EBB Podcast Episode 277 The Evidence on PROM and check out our recently updated Signature Article on PROM here before listening to this episode.    Content Warnings: Discussion of viability, complications with preterm birth, causes of preterm birth, and racism.    On this episode of the EBB Podcast, we bring you a mini episode on the research on Preterm Premature Rupture of Membranes. We are excited to share this episode as an extension of the recent Signature Article update on PROM.    In this episode, I will cover the following topics:   What is Preterm Premature Rupture of Membranes (PPROM)? How Common is it?  What Causes Preterm Premature Rupture of Membranes (PPROM)?  When does Preterm Premature Rupture of Membranes (PPROM) occur? Treatment Options for Preterm Premature Rupture of Membranes (PPROM) Risks associated with Preterm Premature Rupture of Membranes (PPROM) Prevention of Preterm Premature Rupture of Membranes (PPROM) and Pre-Term Birth  Racism and Pre-Term Birth  Resources for PPROM   The PPROM Foundation: PPROM Facts Nationwide Children's Hospital: PPROM Facts Cleveland Clinic: Term PROM and PPROM Facts Continuing Education for Medical Practitioners: Premature Rupture of Membranes EBB Signature Article: Anti-Racism in Health Care and Birth Work The March of Dimes: PPROM  Read our Signature Article on GBS here  Read our Abortion Resource Guide here   Guidelines for PPROM American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists 2020 (addresses both PROM and PPROM, free text not available) National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (UK) 2022 Queensland Health Clinical Guidelines 2018  Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists 2022 Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada 2022 (free text not available)   Listen to the following EBB Episodes and read the associated Signature Articles:  EBB 277 - Evidence on PROM  EBB 175 - Evidence on Midwives  EBB 265 - Evidence on Anti-Racism in Health Care and Birth Work  EBB 21 - Evidence on Doulas  EBB 240 - Top 5 Surprising Findings from the EBB Abortion Research Guide with Dr. Dekker & Doctoral Candidate Tyler Jean Dukes    For more information and news about Evidence Based Birth, visit www.ebbirth.com. Find us on:  TikTok Instagram Pinterest Want to get involved at EBB?  Check out our Professional Membership (including scholarship options) here  Find an EBB Instructor here  Click here to learn more about the Evidence Based BirthChildbirth Class.  

On this episode of the EBB Podcast, I am so excited to bring you brand new, evidence on premature rupture of membranes (PROM) at term!      We are releasing today's episode to celebrate the update of our Signature Article on the Evidence on PROM.     In today's episode, I am going to cover the following topics related to PROM: What are the membranes, and what does it mean to say they've “ruptured”? Membrane rupture can help prepare the body for the process of childbirth—but why? What is it like when your water breaks before labor? What are some risk factors that might increase the chances of your water breaking before labor? What is the “24-hour clock for PROM,” and where did it come from? If you have PROM, how long does it take for labor to start on its own? How are GBS and PROM related? What does the research evidence say on Induction versus Waiting for Labor for term PROM? What are the professional guidelines? What is the Bottom Line? Resources: For a full list of resources and references please visit our blog on the Evidence on PROM here.   To read the full Signature Article on PROM and download our 1-Page Handout, click here.   Watch our special video on PROM on our YouTube Channel   Listen to EBB Episodes: EBB 268 – Debunk the Myths of Premature Rupture of Membranes, GBS, & Waterbirth with EBB Founder, Dr. Dekker  EBB 275 – A PROM, GBS, and Birth Center Transfer Story with EBB Childbirth Class Graduate, Emily Helgerson   For more information and news about Evidence Based Birth, visit www.ebbirth.com. Find us on:  TikTok Instagram Pinterest Want to get involved at EBB?  Check out our Professional Membership (including scholarship options) here  Find an EBB Instructor here  Click here to learn more about the Evidence Based Birth Childbirth Class.

In this episode, we are joined by Shan (she/her), a first-time parent to an 18-month-old daughter named Winter, alongside her husband Brad. Before becoming a parent, Shan was working as a beauty therapist and since, she's recently started her career as a sleep consultant. During Shan's pregnancy, her waters broke prematurely at 30 weeks gestation, resulting in a condition known as preterm premature rupture of membranes (PPROM). She later discovered she had Chorioamnionitis, an infection in her placenta caused by the early rupture of the amniotic sac without receiving timely treatment. This led to her body rejecting the placenta and her baby. As her contractions were too advanced, Shan could not have the epidural she had planned for. She was quickly moved to the birth suite, where she gave birth to Winter after just around 8 minutes of pushing. Following the birth, Shan went into septic shock, a condition she only learned about afterward. After birth, Winter was taken to the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU) due to her delicate condition, covered in tubes and wires. For Shan, not being able to interact with Winter was particularly challenging. She was advised not to stroke her to avoid causing harm. Over the following weeks, Shan and Brad visited Winter in the NICU and Special Care. Adjusting to parenthood was challenging for Shan, who struggled to connect with her baby due to the rapid and unexpected series of events. After bringing Winter home, Shan faced further difficulties with sleep and feeding, leading her to switch to formula after four weeks of feeding Winter her expressed colostrum and milk through a tube. At four months old, Winter experienced breathing difficulties and was diagnosed with a cow's milk protein allergy. Despite the challenges of the first year, Winter's health has improved, and she is now walking and reaching milestones appropriate for her adjusted age. Shan expresses gratitude for the support of nearby family members, which allowed her and Brad some valuable alone time. She also acknowledges that their unique journey into parenthood has brought her and Brad closer together, improving their relationship in profoundly positive ways. Follow our instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@definitelybabypodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠for photos of weekly guests and episode updates and releases. The Definitely Baby theme music was written by Hagan Mathews and produced at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@sleeplessfootscray⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The photo is the podcast logo was taken by @maki.levine. This episode was recorded on the lands of the Wurundjeri Wilam and Boon Wurrung/Bunurong peoples of the Kulin Nation. This always was and always will be the land of the First Nations peoples. Every month, I Pay The Rent and so can you - click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠to learn more.

Stephanie, who is one of the incredible doulas on Arden's team at The Miscarriage Doula comes on the show to share her journey through pregnancy loss in the second trimester. After her water broke at 19 weeks, she details her terrible experience giving birth and grieving her daughter. Arden and Stephanie also discuss pregnancy after loss in this episode! The Miscarriage Doula provides 1:1 and group support for women living life after loss. LEARN MORE ABOUT ONE-ON-ONE SUPPORT LEARN MORE ABOUT GROUP UPPORT --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/arden-cartrette/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/arden-cartrette/support

What is PPROM? Preterm premature rupture of the membranes (PPROM) is a pregnancy complication. In this condition, the sac (amniotic membrane) surrounding your baby breaks (ruptures) before week 37 of pregnancy. Once the sac breaks, you have an increased risk for infection. Today's guest experienced 4 losses, 9 IUIs, and 5 IVF transfers.  Her most recent loss was due to PPROM and incompetent cervix of her son Gabriel at 19 weeks gestation. Her first loss was due to a left ovarian ectopic pregnancy, her 2nd loss was at 6 weeks with no fetal heartbeat, 3rd loss was a chemica pregnancy, and 4th loss was Gabriel.  Tynisha has a story to tell about how much she and her partner spent in their journey to be come parents. Ty and her partner take us on the journey through ups and downs and discuss how they chose donor sperm, and why they continue on their pursuit to become parents. In this episode, Ty shares how she used to be embasrrased to share her journey because non of her friends and family could relate.  Ty and her wife Tori share their love in this episode and how this podcast helped save their marriage.  Its an emotional one because their love and desire to become parents radiates on screen.  This episode is one you should watch on our youtube chanel Sisters in Loss TV. Become a Sisters in Loss Birth Bereavement, and Postpartum Doula Here Living Water Doula Services Book Recommendations and Links Below You can shop my Amazon Store for the Book Recommendations You can follow Sisters in Loss on Social Join our Healing Collective Online Support Group Join the Sisters in Loss Online Community Sisters in Loss TV Youtube Channel Sisters in Loss Instagram Sisters in Loss Facebook Sisters in Loss Twitter You can follow Erica on Social Erica's Website Erica's Instagram Erica's Facebook Erica's Twitter

Black women are three times more likely to suffer from pregnancy and childbirth complications than white women. And when faced with a health scare, terminating a pregnancy has been a way for doctors to save the life of the mother.But under strict new limits on abortion, doctors are often forced to hold off on critical care, like in Florida, where a 15-week ban meant that Anya Cook almost died after she began experiencing something called PPROM, which can cause infection and hemorrhaging. Months after that incident, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed a bill aimed to shorten the state's ban to just 6 weeks, potentially putting more lives in the balance. On Into America, Trymaine Lee speaks with Anya, as well as OBGYN Dr. Zsakeba Henderson, to learn how abortion limits are disproportionately affecting Black mothers nearly one year since Roe was overturned.Follow and share the show on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, using the handle @intoamericapod.Thoughts? Feedback? Story ideas? Write to us at intoamerica@nbcuni.com.For a transcript, please visit our homepage.For More: Two women were denied medical care due to Florida's abortion banDeSantis quietly signs extreme six-week abortion ban into lawInside a Texas Abortion Clinic

Today, we look at how vague language in antiabortion laws has disrupted the standard of care for a pregnancy complication called PPROM.Read more:Anya Cook wants a baby more than anything. She and her husband, Derick, live in Florida. They experienced a long line of miscarriages. Then last fall, they tried IVF, and they got further in their pregnancy than ever before. Cook found herself shopping for baby clothes and maternity swimsuits. But then her water broke at 16 weeks; this was the beginning of a harrowing medical experience for Cook. Last week, Florida passed a bill that will enact a stricter abortion ban in the state; abortions are only legal through the first six weeks of a pregnancy. The law does have exceptions for fetal anomalies, rape, incest or if the life of the mother is in danger. But while these exceptions seem clear-cut, in reality, the way they are written into the law is vague. Reporter Caroline Kitchener tells us the story of Anya Cook, a woman whose complicated pregnancy got stuck in the gray area of Florida's abortion ban.

In this episode I interview Molly Schoener of Trying Times Coaching. She is a Mama of 2 and a coach that specializes in working with women in the infertility and pregnancy loss space. We have an open and vulnerable conversation about Molly's own personal history with infertility, experience with assisted reproductive technology and pregnancy loss. Inspired by her own journey, Molly now works with women that are struggling to get and/or stay pregnant. Previous episode with Molly - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/35-mama-of-two-molly-secondary-unexplained/id1568908543?i=1000549778903 Connect with Molly: Website - https://tryingtimescoach.com/ IG - https://www.instagram.com/tryingtimescoach/ Connect with Holly: Website - https://www.rosebudwellness.com/ IG - https://www.instagram.com/rosebud_wellness/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/wombwisdom/message

In 2018, the ACOG recommended immediate induction of labor/delivery for patients with PPROM, who had sure gestational dating, and were at 34 weeks and 0 days or more. This was in order to reduce the risk of neonatal sepsis. This changed, however, in 2020 with ACOG Practice Bulletin 217 which discussed expected management for PPROM in the late preterm interval. Nonetheless, as is our tagline for this podcast, “medicine moves fast”. In February 2023, a current commentary was published in BJOG adding a cautionary note to the option of expected management in the late preterm interval. In this episode, we will review the acog guidelines, review GBS culture versus NAAT, and summarize this current commentary from BJOG. What is the one clinical factor that should be considered in planning for expected management with PPROM in the late preterm interval? We will explain it in this episode.

Prelabor rupture of membranes or PROM is defined as the spontaneous rupture of the amniotic sac without contractions for an hour or more after the 37th week of pregnancy.  Premature prelabor rupture of membranes or PPROM, is the spontaneous rupture of membranes without contraction for an hour or more before the 37th week of pregnancy. PROM is experienced by approximately 8% of pregnant individuals. Less than 1% of pregnant individuals will experience PPROM Doulas often blame PROM on a baby in a "bad" position. Leading each other to believe that labor will not begin if the baby's position is not "corrected." However, data demonstrate that 95% of individuals who experience PROM will go into labor on their own within 72 hours. What doulas do not discuss is the hormonal triggers for PROM. At term, the fetal membranes and the pregnant person's body release prostaglandins.  These prostaglandins break down the cells of the amniotic sac, leading to the rupture of membranes. They also break down the cellular matrix of the cervix, which leads to effacement and dilation. Join us as we take a deep dive into the statistics and science surrounding the prelabor rupture of the membranes.

Episode Written by : Cadence MacPherson, Family Medicine PGY2 Episode Reviewed by : Dr. Farrukh, Family Doctor Hosts : Kyla Freeman FMR3 in obstetrics & Cadence MacPherson FMR2 Episode Art : Aikansha Chawla MS4 Today we are making a splash! We will review premature rupture of membranes, both at term (Term PROM) and premature rupture (PPROM) as well as pre-term labour. We are going to talk about when to give steroids, who you should induce, and who you should try to slow things down in. We hope you find it useful!

Dr. Shari Gelber returns to Healthful Woman to explain PPROM, or preterm premature rupture of membranes, meaning that the water breaks early. PPROM occurs in just 2-3% of pregnancies but can cause complications including premature birth or infection. Dr. Gelber explains causes for PPROM and more.

Guest: Lee Cordon of Do Say Give Lee discusses her diagnosis of PPROM and the premature birth of two of her daughters. How she handled bringing home NICU babies with other children at home Intentional motherhood The importance of reading, especially to preemies How to set a routine that works for your family A note on breastfeeding -  The NICU is hard. We're here to help.  Hand to Hold® is a national nonprofit dedicated to providing neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) parents with personalized emotional support, educational resources and community before, during and after their baby's NICU stay. NICU support is available at no cost to NICU parents in English & Spanish. Learn more or get support at handtohold.org Follow Hand to Hold:  facebook.com/HANDtoHOLD Instagram: @handtohold Twitter: @NICUHandtoHold

We are so excited to welcome Samantha Beckstrom to the podcast today.  You will hear her journey through an extremely preterm premature rupture of membranes (PPROM) and NICU Journey.   Thank you, Samantha, for sharing your journey with two NICU babies and helping others find strength as they experience NICU.

“I hope I give you some hope.”All around, Lauren's stories are different. Her birthing journey includes Asherman's syndrome, infertility for over 10 years, two rounds of IVF treatments (each with only one viable embryo), a miscarriage, placenta accreta, and significant hemorrhaging after her first Cesarean delivery. Lauren miraculously got pregnant naturally with her second son. She was committed to having a VBAC even with her complicated medical history. When her water broke at 32 weeks, Lauren made her desires known loud and clear to every person who entered her birthing space that a Cesarean was not an option. Sure enough, Lauren was able to successfully VBAC with no signs of placenta accreta or hemorrhaging. After years of so much heartache and holding onto hope, Lauren was finally able to see one miracle unfold after another.Additional linksThe VBAC Link Community on FacebookHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Meagan: Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, whatever time it is where you are at, welcome. You are listening to The VBAC Link podcast. This is Meagan and we have our friend, Lauren, today. You guys, she is currently in Vietnam and it is 4:10 a.m. where she is recording. I cannot believe that she is up and ready to record an episode. We are so grateful for her for being with us today. She has a lot of great things in her story, a lot of great things that sometimes we don't talk about or know of. There's a certain thing in her story where I hadn't even ever heard the word before until I saw it in her story. So I can't wait to dive into her story and have her tell more about all of the things about her story.Review of the WeekMeagan: Of course, we have a Review of the Week so I will read that and we will dive right in. This is from saraalbinger and she says, “One month ago, I had a successful VBAC induction just 18 months after a Cesarean section. I almost called to schedule a repeat on my due date because I was so scared. Then I found your podcast and listened to it for two days straight. It gave me the courage to go through with the induction and I am so glad I did. I hope more people find this as a resource.”She actually emailed us, which is awesome. Congratulations, Sara, on your VBAC. So happy for you. Like I said, she emailed. You can email us your reviews if you would like or if you have a moment, maybe push “pause” really quickly and jump onto your podcast whether it be Apple or Google Play, and leave us a review. We would really appreciate it and again, we always read one on the episodes, so your review might be next. Lauren's storyMeagan: Okay. Lauren, I'm so excited to have you. Seriously, I cannot believe that you are up. I don't know if I could get my tushy out of bed at 4:00 a.m. to record a podcast. I'm so grateful. Lauren: It is early. Meagan: Yes, it is so early. Oh my gosh. We just talked about it. You just had a baby not long ago, so you're not only up at 4:00 a.m. but probably sleep-deprived within those few hours that you did get to sleep. So seriously, thank you so much for being with us today.  Lauren: No problem, I'm excited to share my story. Meagan: Well, I'm excited to hear it. I would love to turn the time over to you. Share all of the amazing things. You have had such a journey that has led you here today. Lauren: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. This is a wonderful opportunity for me to go back and remember what has happened to me over the last couple of years. My story started, I feel like, way back when. I was a Montessori teacher and at that point, I knew exactly what I wanted out of my birth at the age of 18 or 19 years old. I wanted a water birth. I wanted all-natural and I wanted to have all my kids by the time I was 25. Anyways, that didn't happen. I got married. I got married when I had just turned 23. Kids did not happen right away. My 25th birthday was the most depressing birthday I've ever had. It turns out I was struggling with some infertility there. At that time, I had sought some, I don't know. I will tell you that I pondered on it and it just didn't feel right. The time to take care of our infertility didn't feel right, so we ended up moving our family abroad. My husband and I taught English abroad, then we came back to America. We just so happened to live in Boston. We had some contacts there, but we felt, I don't know the right word, we felt very inspired to move to Boston. We didn't start working on the family thing right away because you have to have insurance for that but on the east coast, they pay for infertility treatment. If you have insurance, it's covered. I didn't know that at the time. Meagan: That's amazing. For real?Lauren: Yes, for real.  Meagan: I need to tell my sister who just moved to Boston and is having fertility issues. Lauren: Oh my goodness. Yes, the insurance coverage is amazing. So then I started finding out about other people who had moved there just to get the insurance just to seek infertility treatment. Meagan: Wow, cool. Lauren: Yeah, it was amazing. Exactly. I feel like the right people were put in our path at the right time. They shared the doctors and I was like, “Okay, let me go to your doctor. Okay.” So then pieces started to fall into place to figure out, “What the heck is wrong with me?” I think it had been thirteen years at that point in time of not stopping from having children. Everything was the way it is. So I go and they do this huge check-up on me. My doctors just couldn't believe the long list of all the crap that was wrong with me especially because I was in my thirties.I ended up having what was called Asherman syndrome. It's adhesive. It's scar tissue and they can exist in the cervix or in the uterus. Mine was everywhere. I was 100% scarred over through my cervix and my uterus. It took multiple surgeries to try to remove it. It's called hysteroscopies. Here's the miracle here. Asherman syndrome is not well known. It's still, “Oh, hush-hush.” A lot of women hear the word “adhesive” and that's exactly what it is. It's the scar tissue that's in the uterus and it usually happens after D&C or if you've had a miscarriage, there's a percentage of women who scar over. There are specific doctors out there that will take care of it. One is in Boston and the other one lives in California. I got to see that very specialized doctor and that was just a huge miracle. I felt like I was being taken care of. So we went there and my scar tissue was just so severe. I'm pretty sure I still have it. It's something that doesn't really go away, but it was blocking my tubes. That, and we had a diminished ovarian reserve, so my eggs were like I was a 44-year-old woman. I think I was 32 at this time and going through all this. I'm like, “My eggs are old. I'm old.”Then they did a biopsy of my uterus. It showed that it was inactive.Meagan: What?Lauren: It was menopausal. I was like, “So I've gone through menopause and here I am.” It turns out that if you don't have a period for over a year, you're considered in menopause. I didn't realize that because I hadn't had one in seven years at this point. Meagan: Wow. I didn't even know that either. I mean, I didn't have a period but I have an IUD, so I'm guessing that's a little different, right? Lauren: Mhmm, yeah. Meagan: I didn't know that. Lauren: Yeah, I had no idea. I was learning so much so quickly. There were a lot of emotions. I cried and cried because I felt like my journey of having children was completely over. I had a very slim chance of having a baby and so I was like, “Okay. We're doing this. I'm jumping head-in.” So I jumped and with IVF, I had only one good embryo out of my first round. It ended up in a miscarriage. It was nonviable and it ended up that it had something wrong with the chromosomes in it. They did some testing. This is where I feel like, “Oh, I had this journey.” Here it comes now. With IVF, they watch you and so after my two-week wait, I had a positive test. Okay. Then, they watch it grow. Mine wasn't growing, so then I had my ultrasound. They were like, “Oh, this isn't right. There is no heartbeat. This doesn't even look right. Whatever.” I'm bawling my eyes out because it's really hard.They waited an extra week until I was seven weeks when I went in for my D&E. The doctor told me it was because of my Asherman's that it was going to cause a huge, big problem. So he goes in. He scoops it out. That's the way I like to think of it. He just scoops it out and he's done. Lo and behold, my HCG levels were still the same, if not going up. I was still feeling very sick. The next two or three days later, I'm like, “Something is really wrong. Something is really wrong.” I went back and they drew my blood. Come to find out, my levels are still going up. I'm like, “Something is wrong.” I went back to my Asherman syndrome doctor. They did an ultrasound and then they did an in-office, I was wide awake, hysteroscopy. They took little scissors and they tried to go in and take out what they could see. Meagan: What?! This is giving me chills right now thinking about going through that. Lauren: Uh-uh. It was so painful. Meagan: Oh my goodness.Lauren: It was so bad. I'm just bawling my eyes out on this table and they were like, “This is too much.” I was like, “Yeah. This is too much.” I was scheduled for surgery the next day and that's when I was told about my accreta. That teeny, tiny little sac had grown into my lining. Again, my Asherman's syndrome was worse than the first time I went, which is saying something. I had a few more surgeries after that one just to clean it up. It took a long time, a lot of hormone therapy, and a ton of estrogen to try to get my uterus back up and running. They called it “jump starting” because I was still not having periods. They were forcing them through medication. Anyway, it was just a crazy time of my life. The second round of IVF was maybe six to nine months later. Again, I only had one little embryo. It turned out to be my son. At the time, we didn't know the sex of our child until he was born, so it was a really fun surprise. I was so excited. Well, and surely hesitant because you are like, “Oh my goodness, is this going to stick? What's going to happen?” He stuck and he continued to grow. His percentile growths every ultrasound were still 13% and 15%, so I had a small baby. It always worried me. We got flagged for genetic testing. We got flagged and we got called. It was like, “You've got to come in right now. We've got to do this ultrasound.” The worry that comes over your face is like, “Oh my gosh.” You just start breaking down and immediately crying. We drove straight to the hospital to do a two-hour-long ultrasound of just laying on the table. They don't talk to you, by the way, in this clinic. They just look. They look. They look. They look, and then at the very end, they may say something or you have to go to your doctor and your doctor will tell you but the ultrasound tech does not say anything to you.So it's just nerve-wracking. We ended up seeing a genetic counselor right after who then gave us the results of, “Oh, it's not anything. You're fine.” You had a little bit of leakage that could have caused this. It's not Down syndrome. You're okay. I was like, “Whew.” So other than that, my pregnancy was pretty normal. We got a doula right away, super grateful for her, and then my baby just wouldn't turn. He wanted to be feet down. I don't know how to explain it. He just wanted to be breech. We were doing our birthing classes. I just remember the doula who was doing them was like, “Well,” I don't know I was probably at 30 weeks. She was like, “Oh, he should really be head down.” I'm like, “Really? At this point, he should really be?” She was like, “Yeah. You really need to get on it more.” I was like, “Okay, I need to get on it.” At that point, I was like, “Okay.” So my doula and I worked on Spinning Babies. I spent so much time upside down every day. I was on an ironing board. I was doing all of these things for Spinning Babies. You buy the stuff. All of the stuff, I bought it. It wasn't working, so then someone was like, “Okay, you should go to the acupuncturist and do this epoxy–”. I was like, “Okay.” So then I'm burning this thing on the outside of my pinky toe on my right foot for 20 minutes. Meagan: Mhmm. Bladder 06.Lauren: Yeah, but I'm very pregnant, so to bend over for 20 minutes to do one toe and to do 20 minutes on the other toe was excruciating. I did it every morning and every night. I was like, “Okay. This is a lot. I am very dedicated to spinning this baby.” That didn't work, so I started chiropractic. I started seeing a chiropractor during my last month of pregnancy. I saw her every other day, and then I started seeing her every day. Again, nothing, and then I just got this gut feeling. It was, “Your baby's going to be born the way he needs to be born. You just need to accept that and you need to go with it.” When that happened, it just clicked in my brain. I was like, “Okay. I can still have a birth plan for a Cesarean. I can still do this and that's okay.” But that switch when you have planned something and you believe in something so hard– to make that switch in your brain, it's so difficult. I still was holding hope that somehow this baby is going to flip. They wanted to try an inversion at 37 weeks. I was like, “No,” because they were like, “If you spin the baby in the hospital and it works, then you are having a baby. If it doesn't work, you are still having a baby.” I was like, “Oh, then I'm waiting.” I'm very grateful. So we went in on my scheduled day with my big, long list of everything I wanted for my Cesarean which was wonderful. My doctor was very supportive and she made sure everything on my list got crossed off. I got to completely watch my baby being born, the surgery, and everything which was really unique for me. I didn't realize I was going to get emotional about my little Oden. Anyway, I just remember laying there and having my surgery. My husband was right beside me and my doula was also in the room with her essential oils. He comes out and it was announced that he was a little boy. He gets cleaned up. My husband goes over. My husband gets to do skin-to-skin with him. It was such a beautiful birth. It's like, I don't regret it at all. I'm just like, “I did everything I could.” Once you see that little baby, he was just, oh wow. He was on my husband's chest and he was rooting and making rooting noises. My doctor and everyone in the room just stopped. They were like, “We've never seen this before.” We've never seen a baby come out Cesarean and literally be banging his head on a chest wanting the breast. I knew right away. I was like, “That's my baby. He's hungry. He knows where it's at.” My doula was really excited. So anyways, I remember at this point that my doctor mentioned something about blood. “Oh, there's a lot of blood,” but I was dismissive because I had this cute baby over here rooting. It wasn't even until after I was in recovery and I started breastfeeding that my doctor came in and told me that I had hemorrhaged. I had an MFM who specialized in accreta and percreta and all of these things because I was just so worried that if I had a seven-week sac that stuck to my uterus, then what is it going to look like at full-term? I had done all of this research and I was prepared to lose my uterus with this birth. It didn't happen. I just felt so blessed. I felt so blessed that I got to keep it and that my child was born at full term. I just remember, “I can't wait for baby number two.” Anyway, I enjoyed this birth so much and him so much. The hemorrhage only added to my list. I had forgotten about it until baby number two and then it starts adding on, right?Okay, miscarriage, baby number one, baby number two comes and I really wanted my VBAC. I don't necessarily– my pregnancy was baby number two. I had accepted a job that paid for my insurance and I was going to go back to my doctors, but I ended up getting pregnant before. I mentioned before that I stopped having periods sometime in my twenties and went through menopause. I had gotten the COVID vaccine and gotten both shots. After my second shot, 17 days later, I started the first period I had in years and years and years and years and years and years. I was so shocked. I had no idea what was happening to my body. I was like, “This can't be happening to me. This is so weird and so foreign to me.” I remember just calling my doctor like “What is going on?” She was like, “You are not the only woman to report this. It's okay, just go with it. Track it. Let's see if we can have a natural pregnancy. Let's see if you can get pregnant naturally.” I'm like, “Wow. This is insane.” So, in the third month, I was pregnant. I just couldn't believe it. Meagan: Wow. Lauren: I'm like, “But my eggs are crap.”Meagan: Wow, wow. Lauren: Yeah! I'm like, “My eggs are crap. Everything is crap, right?” She's like, “Lauren, we are just going to go with it.” I'm just like, “Okay. Just going with it.” So yeah. Third month, boom, and I was pregnant. And yeah, wow. But it started off–Meagan: I'm sure. Yeah. Lauren: You just don't believe it. After you've been through everything, you don't believe it. So I just couldn't believe it. I started having a lot of pain and this is where I was like, “I'm going to lose this baby.” I just had this gut feeling like something was really wrong. I ended up going to the emergency room the day I took a pregnancy test. I was going. I was like, “It had better not be ectopic. I need to make sure this is in the right place. There's something going on.” They're like, “You're not pregnant.” That's what they told me. I was like, “Okay.” This little, dinky hospital. They did a urine test and they told me I wasn't pregnant. I literally had to tell them, “Listen. I've been through infertility treatment and I know that you could do a blood test to tell me if I'm pregnant or not. Come on.” And so then they do a blood test but in the meantime, it's been an hour and I'm a mess. I am crying. I am just an emotional, crazy mess. They come back and they're like, “Oh yeah, your levels are 100, so most likely, you're going to lose this baby. It's very early.” They already put this on me. So then they gave me a doctor because I am new to this facility because, sorry. I had moved from Boston to Connecticut to work and buy a house during the pandemic. So I am in little Podunkville with Podunk doctors. There's nothing wrong with Podunk doctors, sorry! But it's just different when you go from downtown Boston, top-notch to country, okay?So we were there and he kept telling me that my levels weren't rising. They weren't doubling. They are supposed to double and they weren't. Baby wasn't growing and nothing was happening for two weeks. So they did an ultrasound, but no heartbeat, nothing. There was something there, but they were like, “Lauren, we will give you another week before we do something.” I'm just a mess. I'm a complete mess. They drew my blood again and my progesterone levels were decent, but my pregnancy hormone was just not growing.And so a week or two weeks went by, I can't remember. I had a heartbeat. I just remember feeling so relieved. I looked at the doctor. I was like, “I'm never going to see you again. I'm so sorry, but I'm never going to see you again. I'm going to go to the best of the best.” So I jumped right back to my MFM up in Boston. The first thing out of my mouth was, “Okay, I'm pregnant. Will you support me with a VBAC?” And she said, “Yes.” She said, “Yes, 100%.” This was the kicker. She was like, “But Lauren, you have to know that because of all your issues, we are aiming for a vaginal birth. You can't sit there and go, ‘I want it to be unmedicated.'” She was like, “What we are aiming for is a vaginal birth.”I was like, “Okay.” And then I go home, I'm like, “I want an unmedicated birth!” I'm like, “I don't care.”Meagan: You're like, “Joke's on you guys, I'm going to do that anyway.”Lauren: Yes, exactly. So my pregnancy is progressing. Baby is head down the whole entire time. I'm super excited. I remember at 28 weeks, I had this very distinct feeling come over me that I was going to have this baby early. I didn't know what that meant. So I was like, “Okay.” So around week 30, I started prepping my house. I bought all of the baby things, got baby things out, just little things like that. In the meantime, I'm teaching kindergarten, I'm still working full time. I still have a toddler now and I'm just resuming life.This is when I really started hitting hard on The VBAC Link. I was listening to every podcast every chance I got. I was listening on my lunch break just to prepare myself. I did a class with you guys. There was an OB that was there. I had a ton of questions that I got answered, so that was really wonderful. I just really appreciate this podcast being there. I feel like that's why I really want to share because it was just so helpful, but no one had anything like what I had gone through. I'm like, “Maybe that means something.” I'm like, “Am I crazy? Can I do this?” sort of a thing. Anyway, so I didn't feel very prepared. My 32-week doctor's appointment was on a Friday. I drove to Boston which was an hour and a half away from where I live. It was a devastating doctor's visit. My sweet little baby boy was not growing. I had what is called, I have it in here because I'm like, “What? I forget everything.” It was fetal growth restriction.Meagan: Was it IUGR? Intrauterine growth restriction?Lauren: Yeah, but they called it FGR here. It was like fetal growth restriction, yes. Meagan: FGR, fetal growth restriction, yeah. Lauren: Thank you for that. I forget all of the things. And so then I was like, “Okay. Tell me exactly what that means.” My baby was measuring in the 1st percentile. So then she goes back and she was like, “Well, he's barely been over a 10th percentile this whole time. He's always been very, very small.” He was in the 10th and the 13th. I was like, “Where do we need to be to get out of this?” She was like, “You have to be at 10% to not have this label.” I was like, “That's not going to happen, is it?” She was like, “No, I'm sorry.” And I'm like, “Oh man.”So at this point in time, I was like, “Okay.” I was visiting her every week. I had her visit plus I had a blood draw, plus I had an ultrasound, so now it was moving up to three visits a week and I was having to drive an hour and a half. I'm like, “This is not going to be sustainable. I cannot work full time and do this.” I had made all of my appointments for that next week. I go home that Friday and then Saturday morning at 3:00, my toddler wakes up and I go in to tend to him. A big thing about FGR was that I had to count my movements. I wasn't feeling my baby move because he was so small that there were times that I didn't feel pregnant. I was like, “This is really weird.” It was one of those times when I was up at 3:00 a.m. and I noticed that there were zero movements. I'm like, “Okay, maybe he's asleep.” So I spent time with my toddler, put him back to bed, go back to my room and I'm starting to feel him move. So then I start kick counting, kick counting, kick counting, and then my toddler gets up again. I'm like, “Oh my goodness, you've got to be kidding me.” He comes into my room. He wants to snuggle, so I let him in my bed and he's holding me. I'm holding him and my husband gets out of bed. He doesn't do that. Anyway, next thing I know, I just feel this gush between my legs and I'm like, “What the heck? I am not prepared for this. This is not okay.” We have Google in my home, so I was like, “Okay, Google. Broadcast.” I'm screaming at the top of my lungs, “My water just broke! You have to come right now!” My husband runs in and he's freaking out. I don't know. It was a really wacky picture in my mind. He has his arms and legs sprawled out like, “What's going on?” I'm like, “Take our son. Take our son and get me a cup because this is gushing out and I don't know what to do.” It was crazy. I started contracting, but they weren't painful at all. They were like Braxton Hicks. My belly was tightening and then it was just gushes of water. I was like, “This is so crazy.”So I immediately called my doctor. This was the part that made me nervous because here I am preparing for a VBAC and the doctor immediately said, “You need to get to the hospital right now. You will have a repeat Cesarean and we will get this baby out. Something is wrong.” Meagan: Whoa. Lauren: I immediately started crying. Yes. Meagan: Scary. So scary. Lauren: Oh, 100%. The good thing is that I had 40 minutes for someone to drive to be with my son to ponder, sit down, and try to process this. Meanwhile, I'm walking around the house with a cup between my legs trying to catch all the water that is coming out of me. My husband and I were talking back and forth like, “This is not anything I had ever ever ever thought of.” I'm like, “Okay. I'm going to go in. I'm going to have a VBAC.” And so we both agreed that we were going to be open to what the doctors were saying. “This a bunch of learning. We are on a learning curve now. This is not on our terms. It's on this baby's terms. We are now open-minded and learning.” It took us an hour and nine minutes to get to the hospital. We passed five policemen. One actually passed us. We were way speeding. We were easily doing 90-100 the whole way. No one pulled us over, thank goodness. It turned out to not be that much of an emergency. We got there and the first thing that they did was they took me back to confirm that I broke my water. I was like, “You guys can't see the stuff gushing out of me?” I'm like, “Is this not water?” They're like, “Well, it could be urine.” I was like, “No, no, no, no, no.” I know what urine is. This is not urine. They were laughing because I was like, “This is not pee, or else I have been continually peeing on myself for two and a half hours now.”And so anyway, I'm like, “Okay, whatever.” And then they were like, “Yes. Okay. This is the fluid.” They came to my room and they talked to me about everything. PPROM is what it's called. It's a premature rupture of membranes. Now, I was a PPROM. Meagan: Yeah. PROM is just premature rupture of membranes but PPROM is premature meaning that the baby is before 37 weeks. Lauren: Exactly. Meagan: Premature premature rupture of membranes. Lauren: It was happening way too early. And because I was 32 weeks, they weren't going to stop it, so I did not receive any magnesium or anything like that to stop it which I was kind of grateful for because after I read, I was like, “Oh, I don't want that in my body.” It burns like fire. But they did start me on penicillin and steroids and all of these things because they wanted the steroids for the baby's lungs. The penicillin was because the risk of infection goes significantly higher when you have PPROMd or when you have PROM'd early because now I'm just sitting there with open stuff and it's easier to get an infection.They refused to check me, which was nice. They would not check my cervix to see how dilated I was or anything like that, but I do remember at the very beginning, she guesstimated that I was about a 1, so it was nothing. And so I sat there. They were like, “You're being admitted to the hospital. You will be here until you have your baby. Since you are 32 weeks, we will induce you. If you get to 34 weeks, you will be induced and you will have your baby.” The reality was that they go through my chart and this is where my past kicked me in the butt. They were like, “Okay, you have a chance of accreta. You have hemorrhaged with your previous Cesarean. You have to put in your mind that most likely you are going to have another Cesarean.” I was like, “No, I'm not.” This whole entire time, I was like, “No, I'm not.” I was like, “No, I'm not. I'm having a VBAC and that's it.” I kept telling every doctor that came into my room. I was like, “Listen, I'm having a VBAC.” I was like, “I'm having a VBAC. It's happening, so I don't even want to discuss another Cesarean unless it really gets to that point. I don't want to discuss it.” I was like, “I want to discuss how I can have this baby vaginally. That's what I want.” They were very supportive. I'm just so grateful and they were just like, “Yeah. Okay. This is awesome. This woman has opinions.” And so every new resident– I was at Brigham and Women's Hospital. Sorry, I don't know if I'm allowed to say that.Meagan: You can totally share. You can totally share. Lauren: Okay. Okay, so it's a learning hospital. You have a lot of residents and interns. I don't know exactly what you call them all. Every morning, there were ten doctors that would visit my room a few times a day. It was a lot of doctors. Anyway, so Wednesday comes and before that, they were like, “Okay, listen. You're either going to have this baby within 48 hours or it's going to be a week or two. It's either one or the other. We don't really have people in the middle.”Guess what? I was in the middle, so whatever. Meagan: Way to be different.Lauren: Right? All around, I'm different. The thing that really worried me is that I was like, “Okay, I want a VBAC,” but at the same time, I had these NICU doctors who were right there on my case like, “Okay. Here are the chances of this. Here are the chances of this. Your baby might be dealing with all of these different things.” Anyway, they were updating me every day on where my baby's development was for that day and what could be possibly wrong with him when he was born. “Oh, by the way, our NICU is full. We don't have any beds. So if you go into labor, we will be transferring you to a different hospital with your child,” or however it works. I'm like, “What? Are you serious?” They're like, “Yep. We're full and so is the hospital next to us, so it will be the hospital down the street.” I'm like, “Oh wow. This is incredible.” Anyway, so right then and there, I started praying, “Okay. Listen to me. If I'm going to go into labor, it better be the day that someone gets sent home.” It's got to work out. It's got to work out. It did, by the way. It worked out. On Wednesday, I started to have more pain. It was like, “Okay. I'm still contracting by the way. I keep having what I call Braxton Hicks contractions because they were not painful. It was just that my whole belly would tighten and my water would continue to spew out. That's the best way I can say it. I remember distinctly that I woke up at 1:00 in the morning on Wednesday and I started having pain. I called my nurse right away and I was like “Listen, they shifted. My contractions have shifted now, but they are still 10-14 minutes apart.” We just kept an eye on it. In the meantime, every time I have a contraction, my baby's heart disappears. They can't find him. I'm like, “Okay. Baby, cut this out.” So when that happens, guess what they start talking about? They talk about a Cesarean. They're like, “Oh, Lauren. His heart rate is really dipping really low. We are going to end up. You need to prepare.” I'm like, “Nope. I'm not preparing.” And so I finally get up out of my bed. I've been in a bed this whole entire time. A friend came and visited me. It was 1:00 in the afternoon at this point. I was standing up during the whole visit which was the most I had stood in two or three days. I'm starting to have regular contractions. They were easy, 4-6 minutes apart, somewhere around there. They started being really painful and I had to breathe through them. I'm this way. I'm like, “Listen. I'm not going to call my nurse in here because she's just going to prepare me for a Cesarean.” So I go for an hour with my friend and my friend is like, “Lauren, you really need to call your nurse.” I'm like, “Fine. You leave. I'll call my nurse.” So I called my nurse and, sorry I'm laughing. She's freaking out because she is like, “Why didn't you call me?” I was like, “Listen, I didn't call you because I don't want to have a Cesarean.” They called the doctor. He guesstimates and he says I'm about a 1 or a 2. I haven't changed much. Now, they have increased and they're back to back. I could not. I was like, “What? A natural birth? I wanted that? That's crazy.” They wouldn't let me out of my bed because of the heart rate and everything that was going on with the baby, so I was stuck and confined to my bed. I was just holding the railing and turned to my side. Every contraction was worsened by a million because my nurse was like, “Listen, if you don't want a Cesarean, I have to find the heart rate of this baby.” And so she is literally, in the middle of my contractions, I'm screaming and she has got that monitor and she is searching for the baby's heart rate to prove that he is okay. This continues and she calls the doctor back in here because my contractions were literally on top of each other for 2-3 minutes. It was so intense. I really didn't feel like I had time to breathe. I was like, “Listen. I am having this baby. I am going to have this baby.” My doctor– he's not really my doctor. He's the resident of my doctor. He walks back in and he basically tells me to suck it up and that lots of moms go through this. I'm not having this baby. He will check me for real this time. So he goes in and I'm about 3 centimeters dilated, but I'm 90% effaced. He was like, “Oh. Hmm. This could change. We're going to send you to labor and delivery, but don't put it in your mind that you're having a baby today because this could stall.” He was like, “I've seen this stall so many times.” I was like, “How would this stall? I'm in so much pain.” He was like, “No. This could still stall.” I'm like, “Okay, whatever. I've PPROMd. I have no idea what I'm talking about. This is all new to me. Okay, fine. This can stall. This labor can stall, sure. Okay.”I am put in labor and delivery and my labor nurse looks at me. She was like, “You're going to be having this baby in a couple of hours. I don't know what your doctor is talking about.” She is bad-mouthing him so hard. She's like, “I don't know what he's talking about. This is insane.” She was like, “Listen, I know. I don't want you to be infected,” but she was like, “I am going to check you right now. There is no way that with the amount of pain you are in and your contractions are on top of each other.” She was like, “I'm going to check you. I'm going to call the anesthesiologist. We're going to get him in here. We're going to get you an epidural,” because I was in so much pain. Anyway, I can't believe it. This is where I'm like, “I wanted a natural birth?” So my anesthesiologist comes in right after my doctor had come in again to check me. He was like, “It's only been 30 minutes. Stop paging me.” Those were his exact words. “Stop paging me. It's only been 30 minutes.” And now, I've progressed to a 5. His eyes got really wide because before that, he yelled at my anesthesiologist, “You're not needed here. You need to leave. This is not happening,” like that. My nurse was like, “What?!”And then he checked me and he was like, “Umm, this is happening. I'm so sorry. Anesthesiologist, please come back in the room.” He's yelling, “Please come back into the room. Help her! This is happening and it's happening very, very fast.” They were like, “Where's your husband?” I was like, “Oh my gosh, my husband's not with me.” At this point, I'm panicking. He's not even with me.Meagan: Oh no!Lauren: Yeah and I'm like, “Oh my gosh, I've got to call him right now.” They were like, “Call him.” So I call him. I was like, “Listen, I know I called you an hour ago and things were progressing slowly, but you have to be here now.” He was like, “Lauren, I've got an hour and a half.” I was like, “Permission to speed. Permission to put your cute little sports car to work. Go fast.” He was there in 45 minutes. He showed up. They were like, “Hold the baby.” There are the funniest things that you remember. It's like, “Okay.” My epidural half-worked. I was still having pain, but it was this weird floating area of, “I can feel pain on my left side, but not on my right side,” and so it was this weird state of where I was. I'm actually kind of grateful for it because I still got that natural birth feeling that I wanted. I still very much felt the ring of fire and the birth and at the same time, I feel like the hard contractions were taken away.So it was a nice in-between that I felt. But as soon as my husband got there, my labor nurse was like, “Listen, Lauren. I just need to tell you that because of your long list,” here it comes again, “because of this long list, you might end up with a Cesarean. I want you to know that they are preparing for it.” This time now, I'm uncontrollably crying because this is not what I wanted. She was like, “I need to also tell you something else.” I was like, “What?” She was like, “There are going to be probably 12-15 people in this room as you give birth.” I was like, “What? How many people?”Meagan: Why? Why so many people?Lauren: Exactly, because it was a learning hospital. Meagan: Oh, okay. Lauren: My doctor had his two doctors and my labor nurse had three assistants, and then I had the NICU team for the baby, and that's what it was. So I had the NICU doctor plus his three assistants or residents, and then they brought people in to watch me have this VBAC after accreta and after hemorrhaging. I wanted to be fully present for this birth. I told the nurse, “I want to grab my baby and I want to pull my baby out. That's what I want. I want to pull him out. I want him out on my chest.” They were like, “Lauren, the realization of that happening– if he cries, sure. If he doesn't cry, we are so sorry. We have to take him. We have to.” I'm praying. Long story short, the baby comes straight out. I mean, he's 4 pounds. They estimated him to be 3 pounds, but he was 4 pounds. He comes out. I got to watch the whole thing with the mirror. I had one of those resident people taking pictures the whole time, so I got really good pictures of my birth and here he is. He's screaming, so he has healthy lungs. I was just so happy that he had healthy lungs. I was like, “Okay. We're good.” Anyway, I got to hold him for about one minute while we did delayed cord clamping, and then I had to hand him over. I didn't get to see him again for hours and hours which was really hard, but I had done it. I had done it and I had my VBAC. It was successful. I'm just so grateful through my whole entire story that it had gone the way I really wanted it to go. I feel like I was prepared for so many things. Right after he was born, they were like, “Okay, the placenta is not stuck, Lauren. There's no accreta. Check. Lauren, you're not hemorrhaging. Check. Now, we just have to stitch you up.” I remember him taking way too long to stitch me up, but I just remember what I always wanted. I was able to jump out of my bed. The epidural got turned off and I was able to get up and start walking within an hour and a half. That's the whole reason for me. I want this vaginal birth, but I want to be present whereas, for my Cesarean, it took me almost a full 12-24 hours before I could really get out of my bed. It's just very different and I'm very grateful. I'm very grateful for the information that I received through this podcast to help me get the birth story that I wanted. I'm hoping that my story can help some of you out there that are listening that maybe struggle with infertility and any of the same things I did. I hope I give you some hope. Meagan: Yes. Oh my gosh. So many miracles in your story. So many miracles.Lauren: So many. Meagan: From moving to Boston and finding the doctor that you did find because that in itself, there are so few doctors out there who even know much about this, and then to go through all that you did to get pregnant and then trusting that, “Okay. This baby is just wanting to be this way and this is the journey.” And then again, not getting pregnant and what a crazy thing that all of a sudden, you are pregnant after months and then years!Lauren: Mhmm. They did a pathology. They did testing on my placenta to see why this all happened and why I PPROMd. It was because, I don't even know what they are called, but the placenta has the phalanges that attach to the uterus and it pumps the vitamins and nutrients in. Mine were scarred over and adhesive. They had adhesives and they were swollen. He wasn't getting the proper nutrition that he needed, which was why he came early. I can't help but think, “Oh, maybe that's my Asherman's.” They tell me it's because of COVID because I had COVID.Meagan: That's another question I was going to ask. Have you had COVID? From what I have heard, even the vaccine, which is interesting how yours is linked to the opposite with starting your period. They are saying that COVID vaccines are related to changing cycles and things like that. But sometimes, if they get the vaccine, then they go into premature labor. We've been seeing a lot of people get COVID and then their placentas are just like, “Hey, I'm done,” and they send the message to the body that they need to have a baby. I'm curious. Maybe it's a little bit of all of it. I don't know. COVID stuff is all a mystery. It's all very a fascinating thing.Lauren: Well, I'll tell you that the NICUs are definitely full. The doctors are definitely telling people that it's because of COVID that so many of these women are having early, premature births. Meagan: So interesting. How long before did you have COVID?Lauren: I had COVID at Christmas and I PPROM'd in late February. He was born on February 23rd. Meagan: Crazy, so a couple of months. Lauren: A month and a half-ish. Meagan: Yeah. Interesting. So interesting. Well, I am so grateful for you for getting up at not even dawn, for getting up in the middle of the night to share your beautiful stories with us. We are so happy for you and grateful for you. I will promise you this. You are going to touch someone out there. I know you will. Lauren: Thanks. I really appreciate that and again, thank you so much for having me. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Julie and Meagan's bios, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

We share the news from Doree's beta last week. Then we hear an update from a listener who had PPROM and the placenta accreta signal goes out. Plus, listeners have advice about the 3-year sleep regression.Call or text us at 413-461-BABY or email us at mattanddoree@gmail.com or doreeandmatt@gmail.com. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

This is the 3rd episode in a series about preterm birth. The first episode, 163, was about risk factors for preterm birth. 164 was about preterm labor which accounts for 40-50% of preterm birth. That episode covered what preterm labor is, how to recognize it, and how it's treated. In this episode you will learn about preterm premature (or prelabor) rupture of membranes (PPROM).   Approximately one third of preterm births are associated with PPROM. Prelabor rupture of membranes, or PROM, refers to membrane rupture before the onset of uterine contractions - when this occurs before 37 weeks it is called PPROM. In this episode we'll get into how common PPROM is and how it can be treated. Though the cause is unknown, there are risk factors that you can be aware of and ways to manage it that improve outcomes for your baby. In this Episode, You'll Learn About: In this Episode, You'll Learn About: -What PPROM is and how common it is -What the risk factors are -How it's diagnosed - it's not always straightforward -What warning signs to look out for -What questions your doctor might ask if you are concerned you're experiencing PPROM -How your doctor determines the clinical course -What “expectant management” is -What the outcomes for PPROM babies can be   Full website notes: drnicolerankins.com/episode164 Check out The Birth Preparation Course Register for the class How to Create a Birth Plan the Right Way Take a quick, fun labor pain quiz

In today's episode I chat to Steph who takes us through the heartbreaking experience of an ectopic pregnancy, something she knew nothing about at the time. After the loss of her baby and subsequent PTSD, she fell pregnant again and opted for continuity of care with a midwife in her local public hospital. After navigating postnatal anxiety and a gestational diabetes diagnosis, her waters broke at 37+6 weeks and after a long labour, she birthed via emergency caesarean. Nine months later, still breastfeeding baby Sunny, she fell pregnant again and was prepared to do everything in her power to have a Vaginal Birth After Caesarean (VBAC). She achieved it a little earlier than expected, when baby Otis decided he was ready to meet the world at 32 weeks. Follow us on Instagram to keep the conversation going. To learn more about The Birth Class my online childbirth education course head to the shop

We are BACK! After months of never ending illness and family transitions, we are officially back to connecting with you all on the podcast and we couldn't be more excited. On this week's episode, we have the honor of sharing Sara's NICU journey with her sweet boy, Connor! At 22 weeks, Sara experienced PPROM and ultimately delivered Connor at 23 weeks and 4 days. Throughout this episode, we hear about Connor's early moments in the NICU, his Retinopathy of Prematurity (ROP) diagnosis, and how healing has been three years out of the NICU.We hope that mamas navigating those dreaded eye exams or are learning about ROP treatment options feel seen and heard. And no matter where you are on your own healing journey, we hope this episode reminds you that you are never ever alone.To get connected with DNM:Website | Private Facebook Group | InstagramSupport the show (https://www.patreon.com/dearnicumama)