Podcasts about Podunk

John 1:35-51,35 The next day again John was standing with two of his disciples, 36 and he looked at Jesus as he walked by and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God!” 37 The two disciples heard him say this, and they followed Jesus. 38 Jesus turned and saw them following and said to them, “What are you seeking?” And they said to him, “Rabbi” (which means Teacher), “where are you staying?” 39 He said to them, “Come and you will see.” So they came and saw where he was staying, and they stayed with him that day, for it was about the tenth hour. 40 One of the two who heard John speak and followed Jesus was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He first found his own brother Simon and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which means Christ). 42 He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon the son of John. You shall be called Cephas” (which means Peter).43 The next day Jesus decided to go to Galilee. He found Philip and said to him, “Follow me.” 44 Now Philip was from Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter. 45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found him of whom Moses in the Law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.” 46 Nathanael said to him, “Can anything good come out of Nazareth?” Philip said to him, “Come and see.” 47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward him and said of him, “Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!” 48 Nathanael said to him, “How do you know me?” Jesus answered him, “Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.” 49 Nathanael answered him, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!” 50 Jesus answered him, “Because I said to you, ‘I saw you under the fig tree,' do you believe? You will see greater things than these.” 51 And he said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.” Can you recall the first time that you really saw Jesus? The first time you truly began to understand who he is? The first time when all his goodness, all his glory, all his worth began to really sink in and you saw him? You saw him. And, in a moment, your entire life recentered around him? For some in this room, that moment may have happened a long time ago. Perhaps when you were very young. For others, it may have happened fairly recently. For still others, you may not recall a specific moment, but perhaps a season, where it just steadily grew more and more apparent to you, “Jesus is King, Jesus is everything.” For some here, you may have no idea what I am talking about right now. You've never seen Jesus this way. Perhaps you want to. Perhaps you're open to it. If that's you, be assured, you are in the right place, because this morning our text is really about two things: Seeing Jesus (in the ways just described), and sharing Jesus.People will see Jesus, really see him. Then, they'll go and share Jesus with someone else. As a result, that someone else will also see Jesus. On and on and onIt is the heartbeat of this text — Jesus seen, Jesus shared, Jesus seen, Jesus shared.It is also the heartbeat of the church. At least, it ought to be. For if we truly are seeers of Jesus, then it only makes sense for us to be sharers of Jesus as well. Toward that end then, we're going to trace this story of Jesus seen and Jesus shared with an eye toward two encouragements for sharing Jesus with others. So, Jesus seen, Jesus shared, and, along the way, two encouragements for sharing Jesus with others.Let's pray and ask God for his help…Alright, so Jesus seen, Jesus shared. And that first one, Jesus seen, has already shown up in John.In John 1:14, John the Apostle writes,“And the Word [Jesus] became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.”In John 1:32, John the Baptist says of Jesus, “I saw the Spirit descend from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him.”And in verse 34, John the Baptist says again,“I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.”So Jesus has been seen. And now, beginning in verse 35, Jesus is going to be seen by more and more. Look with me at John 1:35.Jesus Seen: Andrew and the Other Disciple“The next day again John [that is, John the Baptist] was standing with two of his disciples…”Two of his followers. Men who, as followers of John, would've already been interested in spiritual matters and expecting John's invitation to go forth as Jesus followers. It's no surprise then that, in verse 36, these two disciples do exactly that. Upon hearing John proclaim, “Behold the Lamb of God!” they immediately turn and go after Jesus… And just imagine the smile upon John's face when they did! “At last, they've found him!”Well, Jesus sees these two former disciples of John now following him and asks, verse 38: “What are you seeking?” “What is it that you want?” What are you following me for? Are they in search of entertainment? Wanting to see impressive miracles and hear captivating speeches?Are they in search comfort? Hoping Jesus will solve all their problems and make their lives easier?Are they hoping for wealth and prosperity, and thinking Jesus is the way to get it? Are they looking for a supplement to an otherwise fairly good life?There's more than one reason to go after Jesus, right?So Jesus asks,“What are you seeking?”Their answer, still verse 38,“‘Rabbi' (which means Teacher), ‘where are you staying?'”It is a good response. Better, in fact, than they perhaps knew. For the truth of the matter is what these two men most needed in that moment — more than they needed anything else in all the world — was to simply be near to Jesus. Their souls, whether they knew it or not, were dying for nothing less than him. And, indeed, so are ours. Amazingly, Jesus doesn't respond by saying, “Get away from me.” Or, “Show me your credentials.” Neither does he merely give them his address, which alone would've been a kindness to them. Instead, he invites them in. He invites them near. Verse 39,“Come and you will see.”See what? At one level, they were going to see Jesus — a man who looked just like them. Two eyes, ten fingers, ten toes. And they were going to see him in a home — one that looked just like theirs. Small, simple, nothing to write home about.But at a whole other level, while in that home, while listening to Jesus, they were going to see that this was no ordinary man. This, Jesus, was indeed the long-awaited Messiah. The long-awaited Christ. The promised descendant of David, who would defeat God's enemies, build a house for God's name, and sit upon a throne of glory forever and ever.Hence, Andrew's words to his brother following this event: Verse 41,“‘We have found the Messiah' (which means Christ).”That's what Andrew saw in Jesus. And his first thought afterwards was, “I want my brother to see it too.”Verse 40,“One of the two who heard John speak and followed Jesus was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 41 He first found his own brother Simon and said to him, ‘We have found the Messiah' (which means Christ).” You catch the flow of the story so far?John the Baptist sees Jesus. He then shares Jesus with his disciples, “Behold [it means look! See!] the Lamb of God.”Those disciples go and see Jesus.At least one of them, Andrew, then goes and shares Jesus with his brother. Jesus Seen: PeterSo, verse 42, Andrew brings his brother, Simon Peter, to Jesus. And Jesus says of him, verse 42,“‘You are Simon the son of John. You shall be called Cephas' (which means Peter).”Now, in that moment, did Peter see in the face of Jesus the same Christ, the same Messiah, that his brother Andrew saw? We don't know. The text doesn't tells us. But what we do know, from the rest of the New Testament, is that Peter did eventually see it. In Matthew 16, Jesus asks Peter, “Who do you say that I am?” Peter's answer was remarkably similar to his brother's. Matthew 16:16, “You [Jesus] are the Christ [Messiah], the Son of the living God.”So Jesus seen, Jesus shared, Jesus seen, Jesus shared. But one thing I want to note amidst this continued rhythm is what appears to be just the slightest degree of variance. And the variance is regarding who the particular persons are who are doing the seeing and sharing.For example, the whole thing begins with what we might call the spiritual A-team of that time. John the Baptist sharing Jesus with his disciples. But then it moves to one of those disciples (Andrew) sharing Jesus with Peter (who, unlike his brother, is not labeled a disciple).John the Baptist → one of his disciples → someone who was not a disciple.Now, if we're meant to detect that slight shift, and I believe we are, then it seems we're also meant to detect an even greater shift in what comes next. Namely, the sharing of Jesus by someone who had not been a disciple of John, with someone who, at least initially, puts up some resistance. See it with me in verse 43. Jesus Seen: PhilipVerse 43,“The next day Jesus decided to go to Galilee. He found Philip…”Again, nothing here about Philip being a disciple of John (like Andrew), nor a sibling of a disciple of John (like Peter). Nevertheless, Jesus finds him anyways, and says,“Follow me.”It's a call much like that of Andrew's in verse 39,“Come and you will see.”And the effect is likewise similar. Just as Andrew, after seeing Jesus, went and shared Jesus with Peter, so Philip, having now seen Jesus, goes and finds Nathanael. Look with me at verse 45:“Philip found Nathanael and said to him, ‘We have found him of whom Moses in the Law and also the prophets wrote...”That's basically long-hand for we have found the Messiah. The Christ. The one foretold by Moses and the prophets. But then comes a wrinkle. Still verse 45: “‘We have found him of whom Moses in the Law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.'” Not Wanting to See Jesus?Now, pause here for a moment. Do you know why those two disciples of John, back in verse 37, went after Jesus in the first place? I know we're moving backward here a little, but stay with me. Do you know what it was that allowed those two disciples of John, as well as Peter, as well as Philip, to see Jesus? To have interest in Jesus? To come to the point of understanding Jesus for who he truly was? Was it the fact that they were living in a time when people commonly thought about and talked about spiritual things? That they had grown up in a context, ancient Judaism, where people commonly anticipated the coming of the Messiah? Do you understand their spiritual interest and spiritual sight to be a direct result of them being pre-conditioned and predisposed towards it?If you do, then you likely already put these men of John 1 into a category far different than all the unbelievers currently around you. Your co-workers, after all, don't seem to ever think about spiritual things. Your neighbors aren't on the lookout for a coming Messiah. And since they're not, then we'd certainly not expect them to, if they were to have Jesus shared with them, actually go after him the way Andrew, Philip, and Peter did, right?Brothers and sisters, could I remind us of something this morning? God is the one who draws the human heart, not worldviews. God is the one who woos people to himself, not cultural contexts.To be sure, God often uses God-conscious worldviews and God-focused contexts to draw people to himself. Hence, the many people in this room who grew up in a Christian home and are now Christians themselves. But remember what God tells us in the Word about the human heart. It is a thing far too dead in sin and far too set on following the course of this world for any mere context — no matter how God-conscious, God-focused it may be — to draw them to Jesus.Do you know why Andrew left John to go after Jesus? Do you know why Philip saw Jesus as Messiah? Do you know why you and I are worshipers of Jesus today?It is because God worked a miracle! Had he not, not one of us — neither you, nor me, nor Andrew, nor Philip — would've ever gone after Jesus, at least not in a way that'd be of any spiritual profit. The truth is that in order for anyone to ever truly see Jesus, God has to work a miracle. God has to draw them in to see. And, that's exactly the work that God has been doing for the last 2,000 years.First TraitAnd so, the first encouragement for sharing Jesus with others: God draws people in to see. People who are far from him, who are initially disinterested in him. People who claim to be dead set against him. God draws people in to see. Because he can, and because he wants to. So, we put in our effort. We still extend the invitation. Andrew got his brother. Philip pursued Nathanael. But God is the one who ultimately draws people in to see. He did so with each one of us who are believers in this room this morning. He did it, and he can do it again. God draws people in to see.Now, back to our wrinkle: Philip talking to Nathanael. Jesus Seen: Nathanael (part one)Verse 45,“We have found him of whom Moses in the Law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”Now look right there. Nathanael was not expecting, let alone looking for, a Messiah from the Podunk city of Nazareth. He'd not been pre-conditioned for that. His worldview couldn't seem to put those two details together which is why he responded the way he did in verse 46,“Can anything good come out of Nazareth?”Philip does not take that as a sign he should give up. “Whoa, okay man, sorry I brought it up. I guess I'll cross you off my list of potential converts.” No, he doesn't do that. Instead, he just says,“Come and see.”And Nathanael does! Amazing. Second TraitNow, here is a second encouragement for sharing Jesus with others.First encouragement: God draws people in to see.Second encouragement: Jesus is a sight worth seeing.Here's what I mean…Philip did not try and lure Nathanael in with treats and trinkets and balloons, though those things in and of themselves are not bad.Philip did not launch into a philosophical argument or verbal challenge of how Nathanael's worldview was wrong and his own was right, though there may be a place for that. And Philip certainly did not waiver, thinking, “Perhaps Nathanael's right. Perhaps a Messiah from Nazareth really is a bit far-fetched. Unimpressive. Unlikely.” Philip did not do any of those things, and you know why he didn't? Because Philip had seen Jesus! He had seen his glory, seen his goodness, seen his power, seen his beauty. He had seen, in Jesus, the greatest thing he had ever beheld in his entire life.Therefore, his one and only aim in that moment was to just get Nathanael in front of Jesus. Just get him to lift his eyes up to Jesus and see him too! I mean, Jesus can take it from there. His glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth, is more than sufficient to captivate any unbeliever no matter how seemingly far from him. Jesus is a sight worth seeing.Do we know this? Do we believe this? Are we convinced that if our unbelieving neighbor, our unbelieving co-worker, could just see Jesus, that that'd be enough? Brothers and sisters, Jesus is not a semi-impressive individual. He walks on water. He gives sight to the blind. He heals the paralyzed. He never lies. Never sins. Never disappoints. His love is deep beyond measure. He is God in the flesh! He is a sight worth seeing. So, first encouragement: God draws people in to see.Second encouragement: Jesus is a sight worth seeing.Now, back to Nathanael.Jesus Seen: Nathanael (part two)Philip and Nathanael go to see Jesus. Turns out, Jesus is way ahead of them. Verse 47,“Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward him and said of him, ‘Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!' Nathanael said to him, ‘How do you know me?' Jesus answered him, ‘Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you.'”Nathanael's jaw drops. His eyes widen. He then answers,“‘Rabbi, you are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!'”Nathanael saw Jesus.Now note: when we see that phrase, “Son of God!”, it sounds like Nathanael is calling Jesus God — calling Jesus divine. And while Jesus is God, fully divine, it's far more likely that what Nathanael meant by “Son of God” in this text was Jesus is Messiah. Jesus is the King of Israel, just as he says next. And the reason for that is because the Messiah, the long-awaited king-figure of the Old Testament is also called a son of God. Psalm 2:7,“I will tell of the decree: The Lord said to me, ‘You are my Son; today I have begotten you.'”2 Samuel 7:14, God says,“I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son.”So it seems Nathanael, Andrew, and Philip are all essentially saying the same thing in slightly different ways in this text — Jesus is the Messiah.And Jesus receives all the variations of that title that they give him. It's interesting. Remember earlier when John the Baptist had rejected all his supposed titles… “Are you the Christ? No. Are you Elijah? No. Are you the Prophet? No.” Here, Jesus receives all his titles: Lamb of God, Messiah, One who Moses and the prophets wrote, Son of God, King of Israel. “Yes”, says Jesus, “I am Messiah. And now, watch as I blow the lid off your understanding of who the Messiah really is.” Jesus Seen As GreaterVerse 50,“Jesus answered him, “Because I said to you, ‘I saw you under the fig tree,' do you believe? You will see greater things than these.”Greater than the Messiah? Really?Verse 51,“And he said to him ‘Truly, truly, I say to you [and the “you” here is plural, so he's referring to more than just Nathanael], you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.” That's incredible. What Jesus just did is take two major Old Testament references, smush them together, and say they're all about him.Let's take that first one, “…you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending…” It's a reference to Jacob's vision in Genesis 28. When Jacob, in his sleep, saw a ladder connecting heaven and earth, with angels going up and down on it. And it's his interpretation of the event that is truly breathtaking. Listen for the emphasis, Genesis 28:16,“Jacob awoke from his sleep and said, ‘Surely the Lord is in this place, and I did not know it.' And he was afraid and said, ‘How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.'”The gate. The doorway. The point of entry between earth and heaven. Jesus, taking ahold of that story, is now saying here, “I am that gate. I am that point of entry between heaven and earth. The angels are going to ascend and descend upon me.” “And who am I? Well, I am the Son of Man.” This is a reference to Daniel 7. And I'm going to read it, and what I want you to mainly focus in on is where this scene from Daniel 7 is taking place. Daniel 7:13-14,I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days [that's God the Father] and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.Where is this vision taking place? It's taking place in heaven. The Son of Man is King, in other words, not just of Israel, but all of heaven. And Jesus is saying “that's me.” Jesus can be the gate between earth and heaven because he's come from heaven down, for his people, with the invitation, “I'm going back up to reign as King, and if you receive me, then I will take you back with me to be where I am. Andrew, Philip, Nathanael, you see that I am the Messiah. You will soon see that I am a Messiah far greater than anything you ever expected.”Welcome Others to See Him TooFriends, have you seen Jesus? Has God drawn you in to see Jesus? Has he been revealed to you through God's Word and in God's church? Has the sight of Jesus changed your life? Changed your eternity?Be encouraged, share Jesus with others. Share Jesus with others. Invite your neighbor, though he may not care two cents about Christianity, to come and read the Bible with you. Invite your co-worker, though she thinks little if ever upon spiritual matters, to listen to a sermon on the gospel. Invite your family member, though they may be dead set against all forms of organized religion, to hear what you so love about Jesus.And invite people here. Invite them to see Jesus in the book of John. I know there aren't often a lot of empty seats left, but look, I've been around this church enough to know that if you come even just 15 minutes early you'll have plenty of seats to choose from. Invite people to see Jesus. They will not be disappointed. Jesus is a sight worth seeing, and God can draw them in to see him.The TableNow, what brings us to the table this morning is the fact that Jesus, Messiah, King of Heaven came down to earth, ultimately, to die for the sins of the world. He shed his blood, had his body broken, so that forgiveness of sins could be made possible for those who receive him — so that forgiven people could rise with him into heaven for all eternity.

Recorded January 17, 2025 It's February, which means Groundhog Day! On this episode of On Topic, we review the perennial favorites of the IT and AV world that keep coming back year after year, from the trials of consultants to the challenges of wireless display technologies. We cover the ongoing debates around device compatibility, network security, and the ever-elusive search for the perfect microphone system. Plus, we share our experiences with the quirky requests that come from faculty and staff, and the creative solutions we've tried to implement (or avoid) over the years. Don't miss out on the fun - tune in for a jam-packed episode filled with insights, laughter, and the occasional rant. And remember, your support helps keep the AV SuperFriends rolling, so share the love and spread the word!   Connect with Teddy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teddy-murphy-mba-cts-3a31903b/   Alternate show titles:  Future You Problem Potential Nickel and Diming Voodoo magic witchcraft Equipment to spy on them China is listening I ain't touching that with a 15 ft pole They couldn't afford the electric I told you that sh*t two years ago I'll put it on an island if it works Show seasons Wacky-ass aspect ratios Podunk podunk      We stream live every Friday at about 300p Eastern/1200p Pacific and you can listen to everything we record over at AVSuperFriends.com    ▀▄▀▄▀ CONTACT LINKS ▀▄▀▄▀ ► Website: https://www.avsuperfriends.com ► Twitter: https://twitter.com/avsuperfriends ► LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/avsuperfriends ► YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@avsuperfriends ► Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/avsuperfriends.bsky.social ► Email: mailbag@avsuperfriends.com ► RSS: https://avsuperfriends.libsyn.com/rss   Donate to AVSF: https://www.avsuperfriends.com/support

My guest is six-time Tony Award nominee Chad Beguelin, who has created book & lyrics for Broadway musicals The Prom, Disney's Aladdin, The Wedding Singer, and Elf. Today, he joins me to discuss his captivating new novel set in the world of theater, SHOWMANCE. The beautifully crafted plot of Showmance opens on the disastrous opening night of a new Broadway musical — Stage Of Fools — with book, music, and lyrics by Noah Adams, the novel's central character. The scorching reviews the show receives, coupled with a family emergency, send Noah back to his Podunk hometown of Plainview, Illinois, where he figures he can hide out for a bit and lick his wounds. There, to his horror, he discovers that his agent (and longtime boyfriend, Chase) has secretly arranged for him to stage an amateur production of his musical at the hometown community theater he grew up in. And, of course, he also runs into Luke, the hot, sexy jerk from high school, whom he may have misjudged, all of which sets the stage for a delightful and often hilarious romantic comedy. How to become a PATRON of Broadway Nation! This podcast is made possible in part by the generous support of our Patron Club Members, including longtime patron Neil Hoyt. For just $7.00 a month, you will receive exclusive access to never-before-heard, unedited versions of many of the discussions that I have with my guests — in fact, I often record nearly twice as much conversation as ends up in the edited versions. You will also have access to additional in-depth discussions with my frequent co-host, Albert Evans, that have not been featured on the podcast. All patrons receive special “on-air” shout-outs and acknowledgment of your vital support of this podcast. And if you are very enthusiastic about Broadway Nation, there are additional PATRON levels that come with even more benefits. If you would like to support the work of Broadway Nation and receive these exclusive member benefits, please just click on this link: https://broadwaynationpodcast.supercast.tech/ Thank you in advance for your support! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Jonathan and Devon chat with six-time TONY Award Nominee Chad Beguelin about his new novel "SHOWMANCE" and his life as a Broadway writer. About SHOWMANCE: Noah Adams's career as a playwright is circling the drain, thanks to a scorching review of his first Broadway musical. So when a family emergency sends him back to his Podunk hometown of Plainview, Illinois, he figures he'll hide out for a bit. But to Noah's horror, his agent has secretly arranged for him to stage an amateur version of the career-ruining musical at the local community theater. As if trying to work with a bunch of artless amateurs wasn't enough, Noah runs into Luke, the jerk from his high school years, everywhere he goes. Luke somehow grew up to be beloved by everyone in town…and undeniably gorgeous. As rehearsals begin, Noah is surprised by his cast's insights, the warmth of the town he'd dismissed, and the reality of what happened with Luke all those years ago. Just how much has Noah misjudged? Available at Penguin Books Guest - Chad Beguelin Chad Beguelin is a six-time Tony® nominee. His works include Disney's Aladdin (Tony Award nomination for Best Book and Best Original Score, Drama Desk Award Nomination for Best Book and Outstanding Lyrics), The Prom (Tony Award nomination for Best Book and Best Original Score, Drama Desk Award Nomination for Best Book and Outstanding Lyrics) and The Wedding Singer (Tony Award nomination for Best Book and Best Original Score, Drama Desk Award nomination for Outstanding Lyrics). He also wrote the lyrics for the Broadway musical Elf, which broke several box office records at the Al Hirschfeld Theatre. His play Harbor premiered Off-Broadway at Primary Stages. He is the recipient of the Edward Kleban Award for Outstanding Lyric Writing, the Jonathan Larson Performing Arts Foundation Awards, the Gilman & Gonzalez-Falla Musical Theater Award and the ASCAP Foundation Richard Rodgers New Horizons Award. Chad is a graduate of New York University's Tisch School of the Arts Graduate Dramatic Writing Program. He currently lives in Bridgehampton with his husband Tom and their dog, Tucker.  Produced and edited by Jonathan Cook Intro music by JK/47 You can watch the full video of this episode at https://www.youtube.com/@GatherbytheGhostLight Gather by the Ghost Light merch is available at www.ghostlightpubs.com (Ghost Light Publications) If you would like to further support this podcast, please visit Gather by the Ghost Light is increasing public knowledge of emerging writers and actors (buymeacoffee.com) If you enjoy this podcast, please please please leave a rating on your preferred podcast app! For more info or if you wish to contact us, please visit www.gatherbytheghostlight.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Mark and Lionel talked about the failure of the Secret Service in the Trump assassination attempt. They also hit on untrained Podunk police forces being involved in protecting the President.

Why didn't Lester Holt call Biden on all his lies about Trump? Mark interviews Streaming Host Lionel: Mark and Lionel talked about the failure of the Secret Service in the Trump assassination attempt. They also hit on untrained Podunk police forces being involved in protecting the President.

Paul Harvey - Podunk 

Welcome back from three distinct corners of these United States! We are your Brothers in Arms, and you are our most favorite audience! Tonight we discover You're missing your calling, Podunk baseball team, minor league hockey, Rod Fitswell, your parents are awful, Happy Birthday Grandma!, broken brackets, C A T S, integrity a watch standing principle, 3 F's and a pickle, how much does a polar bear wear, a boatload of orcs, he got hash at a place called toasted, 22 hours in the car, the escape plan always prepared, snow blower with the house, who destroyed the name Karen?, she's the beginning of skynet, car talk with Patrick, the sun has gone down, You're Old, and a smattering of relatively funny Dad Jokes. All this and a few questionable stretches of conversation on this week's episode of Brothers in Arms!   Where you can reach us: Instagram: Yourbrothersinarmspodcast Twitter: @YourBIAPodcast Gmail: yourbrothersinarmspodcast@gmail.com Twitch: Twitch.tv/brothersinarmspodcast (Every Sunday @ 9:00-ish PM EST) Website: https://brothersinarms.podbean.com

Finio is BACK! Joins as we catch up with our prodigal host who escaped Podunk town, AZ (for now) we are hitting up Marshall and TJ MAXX for some questionable snacks as we do our weekly recap!Grab the wine and popcorn; ESTO SE VA PONER BUENO!.....The following episode contains sensitive content and may be found as offensive, disturbing, or may trigger a person. Listen at your own risk. *We do not own the rights to any music

This gold medalist never made it to the bigs, but his commitment to the New Hampshire Fisher Cats was major league. Card 67T on Beckett Listen to David on Conversations with Sports Fans Follow-up: Cecil and Gumby's card photo game What is Podunk? Masse's profile by GHTBL Billy at Greatest 28 Days Don't you dare give the Sea Dogs a standing O!

December 24, 2023 Pastor Chris Wachter Merry Christmas, from Hiawatha Church! http://www.hiawathachurch.com

Tyler Ribeiro is a fourth-generation farmer from Tulare, California. He's amassed nearly 80,000 social media followers sharing life on the farm and daily moments in his rural community. He joins host Kim Olson to talk about the work being done in his community and beyond to break down rural stereotypes and keep small communities vibrant. Check out Rootedintomorrow.com for more stories of incredible farmers!Follow Land O'Lakes Inc at:Facebook: www.facebook.com/LandOLakesIncInstagram: @LandOLakesIncLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/landolakesinc/Follow along with our other businesses. Dairy: www.landolakes.comAnimal Nutrition: www.purinamills.comCrop Protection: www.winfieldunited.comSustainability: www.truterraag.com

(If you DO want to work with Golden Proportions, they are actually giving all our listeners 2 EXCLUSIVE DEALS)Reach out to Golden Proportions here: https://go.goldenproportions.com/dental-marketer-deal‍‍Hey guys, welcome to this week's MMM! Today we're diving into the world of SEO with our special return guest, Xana Winans. Join us as we explore the secrets of utilizing SEO for your dental practice, and how to know if it's actually moving the needle. We'll uncover the importance of location and service keywords, with Xana's expert advice recommending 3-5 keywords for every 500-600 words of text on your website. The competitiveness of your area impacts your SEO strategy vastly, so we share some thoughts and strategies on effectively assessing your competition's keyword usage. Plus, we'll uncover a crucial tip: if your website hasn't seen new content in years, Google may be ignoring it. Don't miss out on this chance to boost your SEO chops, and get more searching patients through your doors!‍You can reach out to Xana Winans here:Website: https://www.goldenproportions.com/Get Xana's free assessments and guides here: https://www.goldenproportions.com/dental-marketing-resources/‍Other Mentions and Links:AACD - American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry‍If you want your questions answered on Monday Morning Marketing, ask me on these platforms:My Newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/The Dental Marketer Society Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2031814726927041‍Episode Transcript (Auto-Generated - Please Excuse Errors)‍Michael: Hey Xana. So talk to us about s e O. How can we utilize this, or what advice or suggestions or methods can you give us that will help us actually attract new patients through Xana: seo? So first off, thanks for having me, Michael. Um, I love talking about seo O I'm a complete geek when it comes to this stuff because it feels like Google has this secret sauce that they're not willing to share with the rest of us.But there's actually a ton of information out there, and, part of the reason I'm so excited about it just because doctors don't understand what they're buying. So I like to teach them things that allow them to literally look on their website and see. Did I get the right thing? Am I getting something that is gonna actually help me to rank my website?So it all starts with keywords. so let me ask you a question. When you want to find a question or the answer to a question on Google, what's the first thing you do? Michael: I'm gonna ask it. Like, where can I find. Take, I don't know, something like that. You know Xana: what I mean? Sure. Yeah. So with within the phrase that you're asking, there are target keywords that Google is trying to match up with the best possible result.Their entire goal is to give you the best user experience, and that means they wanna give you a website that matches the, the answer that you're looking for. Um, and that happens because they're able to find that answer on your website in the way it's been built. So, For any doctor to know if their website is ranking.It's all about understanding the keywords. And the keywords are, are the basic things that just like if you were a patient and you were trying to understand, how do I find the best dentist for, uh, pediatrics, for cosmetic dentistry, for dental implants, they're gonna go online and they're gonna type in a phrase that says, cosmetic dentist near me.How do I find a good pediatric dentist? Those keywords. Physically have to be on your website. I don't know how familiar you are with seo, but do you know the top couple of places that you can look at on your own site to see if your keywords are being used? Well, is it like homepage or? No, it's all over the website.Oh, okay. So when you're in your browser, let's say you're in Google Chrome. I don't know about you, but I have like 10 tabs open at all time. I'm hopping back and forth. Yeah. Between like email and my calendar and something I'm researching and something I'm working on for a client. Well, every time that you're in your browser and you're looking up a couple of different websites, you probably don't even realize this, but if you take your mouse and you hover over the little tab at the top mm-hmm.It has some words on it. And those words on the website are known as the title tag. It's a meta tag or a meta description that kind of explains to Google what the purpose of the website is about. So if, for example, I am on a doctor's website that is in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania where I happen to live, and um, it's a page about cosmetic dentistry, I would expect to see the words cosmetic dentistry.And Lewisburg, the town that's most important to me physically pop up when I hover on that, that little tag, that tab. If you hovering over something and it says home, or it just has your business name without any local geo identifiers, your website is definitely not optimized. That's place number one to look for keywords.Another really good place to look for them is called anchor text. I'll ask you, do you know what Anchor text is and what the purpose of it is? Michael: Um, man, this on you. You're putting me on the spot and I don't know anything about seo, so I, I'm assuming anchor text is like the, the text that people can easily find, like if they click on something and it goes to it, or, or no.Am I super Xana: off? No, you're, you're roughly right. So let's say you're on this page about cosmetic dentistry. part of the goal is to get you to maneuver around the website to a couple of different pages to explore what this doctor has to offer. Mm-hmm. So, as you're reading the text on this page, on cosmetic dentistry, You might see a couple of underlines or hyperlinks that will take you to a different page.So for example, if you are accredited with the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry, you might say that in your bio, or talk about the importance of that accreditation. But then you're gonna link out to a different website, the very words that are used in that link. That link is considered anchor text.And the better the keywords that are used in that link, the more valuable it is in Google's mind. So often you've probably seen this, we all have, where um, you're reading something on a website and it says, click here. Mm-hmm. And click here are the only two words that are your hyperlink. What do you think that does for, say, somebody who's trying to rank for cosmetic dentistry in Lewisburg?Michael: it doesn't Xana: go with it exactly. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't tell the search engine what is most important on that page. So instead, you might want to have your hyperlink with the anchor text, say, learn more about cosmetic dentistry services in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania and. That whole section is typically like a highlighted word and it links to another page, but there's keywords physically in that link that make a better user experience.It helps someone know, what is this thing I wanna learn about? It's a great signal to Google. there's also a couple of other places that you wanna use these keywords and it's in the text on your website page. So the content on your page should contain not just the one keyword that you care about, like cosmetic dentistry, Lewisburg, but it should be repeated and talked about a couple of different ways.Throughout the website, Google has something that they call semantic language. So they understand when you're talking about cosmetic dentistry, that that's also tied to smile Design. And smile design might also be affiliated with porcelain veneers. And so you talk about a couple of different cosmetic dentistry topics and Google knows to tie it all together.So ideally you need to be incorporating your primary keyword, say cosmetic dentistry, Lewisburg into that website page. I'd say probably three to five times in about five or 600 words on a page. Doctors hate to see all this content on their website. They seem to think like nobody's gonna sit there and read all that, so they just want like a little blip of text.Unfortunately, Google wants to see all of it. So you've gotta have enough information to actually describe this thing that you're talking about. Michael: Mm. Okay. Now information wise, how much is like too much? How much is too little? If I were to be like, can we just do, like for example, let's hire Golden Proportions.And I tell them, can we just do like five sentences every month of a specific topic, but like really talk about it or no. Um, well, Xana: I would tell you to probably not waste your money doing that. it really needs to have some depth to it. Mm-hmm. So there's a, a couple of things to keep in mind. Let's say you wanna rank for cosmetic dentistry, Lewisburg, but there's somebody else who's po in position one and you're in position for, one of the things you want to do is go to your competitor and literally see how many words.Are on that same page that they're ranking for the term that you want, and then how often is that keyword repeated in their text? And believe it or not, and this is very well documented and proven, you need to have more words than the next guy as one of a really big ranking signal to get you up there.So you know, if you only have five sentences and the guy. Who is ranking number one has a thousand words on this page about cosmetic dentistry. He's gonna win hands down, over and over and over again. it's not just that there's a hard and fast rule, it's kind of more knowing I. If there's nobody else in town who cares about that keyword, you'll rank by default.But if it is, you know, a really competitive keyword, you've gotta do some competitive research to find out what else is going on in your community and take a really targeted approach to your Michael: success. Gotcha. Okay. Would video work in that scenario Xana: or no? So video works in a couple of different ways in that it's great for user engagement.People love to watch videos, but just watching the video itself only gives Google one signal, which is how long somebody spends on the website. What it doesn't do is give them any actual content. So what you'll need to do is use a transcription service. Who then writes out the script of what was talked about in your, um, video, and then you include that text on the website and that text is inevitably going to be containing some of the keywords you're looking for.Gotcha. Okay. So Michael: this is what, a portion or all of it, or is this part of what we kind of pay for when it comes to s Xana: e O? So this is just a part of it. This is a little bit of the magic behind why search engine. People write what they write and the way that they write it. Often I've seen doctors who want to go in and edit the way that something is written because it doesn't sound as much like them.Or, they want to use a word that might, in their mind be more descriptive of the procedure, but if it's not a keyword that somebody is actually searching, it's kind of useless. So it's important to know that, you know, what you're paying for is someone who knows where to put the right words in the right place with the right frequency in order to get you to rank.Michael: Gotcha. Okay. So that's part of it, right? Xana: That's part of it. Part of s Yeah, it's actually kind of like a mathematical formula, figuring out that right density of keywords. Oh, Michael: okay. Okay. And so frequency matters too. I heard you say that right? Like how often we're supposed to be posting, um, Xana: You're ready. Um, frequency matters both in how many times the keyword is used in a page on the website, but also how often you're adding new content.So that's one of the great joys of blogging is if you have a blog on your website, it's really easy to write something interesting, maybe about an FAQ that you hear from a patient, and you write 350 to 500 words about that particular topic, and you're adding new content to the website. I'd every two weeks, you know, once a month at the absolute minimum.And it shows Google that your website is active and interesting. So if you have a website where you have not added any new content in literally years mm-hmm. Your website is being completely ignored by Google. Michael: Okay. So, for example, let's just say some, we're listening right now, right to this episode.We're like, all right, I wanna get golden proportions to do just by, by the way, do you guys just do seo? If we were to just ask you guys just to do Xana: seo, Well, it depends on the quality of the website. So if somebody comes to us and they have an otherwise really good website, absolutely we can transfer the site in, we can do SEO o for them.but often part of s e o is also the websites speed and how good the user experience is. And so sometimes if you've got a website that's more than three or four years old, often it needs kind of to be re-skinned on new technology that makes Google happy. So, And I always say Google because they're the king of the search engines.Obviously there's more than just Google out there, but it is really helpful. Gotcha. Michael: Okay, so then we did the seo. What's the best kind of, you recommend if we're like, Hey, you're on page 10, you're on page seven, right? Like if you wanna get to number one, this is the frequency, this is the package you need to get, and then can you kind of let us know like, okay, if somebody were to recommend that, that's a little bit.Eh, they're just getting you for your money kind of Xana: thing. Well, that's the thing is it's really different from practice to practice. It depends on the market that you're in. Mm-hmm. If you're trying to rank number one for dentist in Chicago, it's gonna take a whole different level of effort. Then dentist in Lewisburg, Pennsylvania, which is a town of about 25,000 people.So when you have a package, That's kind of trying to shove a really unique situation into a standard solution for everybody. Mm-hmm. I think it's better to make sure that the company really looks at your website and says, okay, knowing your market, knowing your competition, knowing what you wanna rank for, here's the best way to do it.And it could be outside of a package, it could require something completely different. So packages have their place, but they might not be serving you really, really well. Michael: Gotcha to like your unique demographic and everything like that. Xana: not so much demographic as it is understanding your market and the other doctors that are out there.So it, it's one of those situations that, you know, if you're at a trade show and you see somebody selling SEO services and it's 2 95 a month, they're selling the exact same solution to somebody in a Podunk small town where there's no competition as they are to somebody in an incredibly competitive market.And it might not be the right solution for you. So seo, you don't wanna buy on price. You wanna buy on someone who actually understands what it takes to rank in your market for the things that are important to your practice. Michael: Awesome. I appreciate that Xana, and thank you so much for your time. And if anyone has further questions, you can definitely find her on the Dental Marketer Society Facebook group, or where can they reach out to you Xana: directly?Uh, best way to reach us is on our website, golden proportions.com. Um, there'll be a live chat. We can definitely have a chat on there, or you'll see a place where you can schedule an appointment and we'd love to talk to you. Michael: Awesome. So guys, that's gonna be in the show notes below. As always, anzania, thank you for being with me on this Monday morning marketing episode.My Xana: pleasure. Thank you, Michael.‍

Flying men, swimming cats, a mysterious mimicker, and a magical castle in the clouds?! We're not in Podunk anymore. Enter the dreamy world of Magicant. Ponder its surreal inhabitants and unusual sights with Cat and Jess as they draw connective threads between Ninten's past, this peculiar place, and beloved children's media from across the 20th century. “MOTHER,” She Wrote mixes audio drama and talk podcast to chronicle the strangest, most thought-provoking, most heart-rending video games ever made: the MOTHER series, as it's called in Japan, and EarthBound as it's called everywhere else. This first season chronicles MOTHER (1989), known as EarthBound Beginnings in English-speaking countries. For links and transcriptions, head to https://mothershewrote.earth Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Davi is joined by our ScapeGOAT HR Representative and the Executive Director of GBA Equality Foundation, Thomas Ryan Lawrence! They're answering more listener questions and TW; this particular email cuts deep. Anne wants to be the best advocate she can be for her daughter after a traumatic family incident. Thomas and Davi share their list of resources and compassionate advice for a loving mother full of pride while living in Podunk, USA.   Got workplace questions? Ask our HR Rep, Thomas Ryan Lawrence, and the G.O.A.T.! Hit us up https://www.davicrimmins.com/contact ScapeGOATs can donate to GBA EQUALITY FOUNDATION here: bit.ly/davihelpsqueeryouth (or) https://gbaequality.org/donate Check out Davi's live shows, coming to a city near you :  https://www.davicrimmins.com/tour Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Embark on a journey through EarthBound Beginnings! There's something strange happening in the town of Podunk, and unresolved mysteries, almost a century old, are coming to light. Can a twelve-year-old with emerging psychic abilities hold his own against paranormal disturbances, mind-control, and the walking dead? “MOTHER,” She Wrote mixes audio drama and talk podcast to chronicle the strangest, most thought-provoking, most heart-rending video games ever made: the MOTHER series, as it's called in Japan, and EarthBound as it's called everywhere else. This first season chronicles MOTHER (1989), known as EarthBound Beginnings in English-speaking countries. Adventure with Ninten and then unpack the game's events with hosts Cat Blackard and Jessica Mudd as they dust off their basement bread, share their most SMASHable enemies, and favorite "MOTHER," She Quotes from Nintendo and Shigesato Itoi's beloved cult classic game. For links and transcriptions, head to https://mothershewrote.earth Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For most people, it can take months or even years to close their first deal as real estate agents, and the majority don't end up lasting long in this highly competitive business. Miranda Ferreira, however, took things off from very early thanks to her unique skills, her ability to connect with people, and her incredible work ethic.   While holding her license since 2018, Miranda became an active full-time realtor through a serendipitous chain of events in the early months of 2020. She was able to navigate the Covid pandemic with three young children to become the local Century 21 office's "Rookie of the Year". This strong start catapulted her to Top Producer for Amelia Island Nassau County, and Emerald Producer for Century 21 the following year. She is most proud of the "Top Service Award" in her second year and strives to keep these streaks going well into the next market swing. Communication is key, Ferreira states, "because it's hard to make a decision when you don't know all the facts". Miranda and her team at Century 21 Miller Elite work hard to ensure problems are found early (when they are still small) in order to limit the stress for clients.   In this episode of the Real Estate Excellence podcast, Miranda Ferreira will teach you how she was able to leverage her skills, connections, and tools to succeed in real estate from the very start of her real estate career.      [00:00 - 07:33] From Growing Up on a Sugar Cane Farm to Closing 90 Real Estate Transactions • Miranda Ferreira is a real estate agent in the Fernandina Beach, Fernandina, and Milia Island area. • She has done nearly 90 transactions in two and a half years. • She left her doctorate in physical therapy for real estate. • Grew up on a sugarcane farm in nowhere Podunk, Louisiana. • Graduated with 53 students from high school. • Her undergrad degree was in nutrition. • She originally wanted to be a chef but her parents said no due to a lack of certainty in that profession.   [07:33 - 14:45] Embracing the Unknown: A Journey from Physical Therapy to Real Estate • Miranda went to the University of St. Augustine for physical therapy. • She got a real estate license in 2018 but sat inactive until 2020. • She decided to pursue real estate after losing a contract in a nursing home due to Covid. • Had been considering getting into real estate every 3 months for 11 years prior. • Making the jump to real estate was scary, especially being the provider for her children.   [14:45 - 21:50] Overcoming Challenges and Making a Leap into Real Estate • Fear is a liar and one must take a step out of the comfort zone. • Miranda's coworkers, Bobby and Carol, were nothing but supportive throughout her journey. • She felt like her back was against the wall and had to make a leap of faith. • She did 4 deals in 20 months and had a decent 2021. • She used budgeting to help manage her expenses. • Her father-in-law was John T. Ferre.   [21:51 - 28:35] How Working with Family Helped Launch a Real Estate Business • Family members provided onboarding and education for Miranda to get the business off the ground. • Family members were available as a reference and resource. • Early attempts at marketing were unsuccessful. • Started taking advice from family members who were successful in the business. • Focused on understanding the market and staying in one's lane. • Set expectations with clients and set boundaries for oneself.   [28:36 - 36:06] Miranda Ferrera Shares How to Help Renters Take Advantage of the Current Market • Quality service is the goal. • Understanding the customer's pain point is key to success. • Taking knowledge from a previous career and applying it to real estate. • Current market conditions are forcing renters out of their homes due to high demand. • Northeast Florida has a good business climate and job market, leading to an increased demand for homes.   [36:06 - 42:54] How to Build Wealth Through Real Estate and Social Media • Career renters are being pushed out of their rental nest due to market conditions. • Real estate is in every millionaire's and billionaire's portfolio and is a way to build wealth. • Investing in a 401k typically only yields 10% returns, while real estate can yield 20%. • A good social media strategy should focus on authenticity and positivity. • Social media is a free way to advertise and educate about the community.   [42:55 - 50:21] The Miranda Way: How a Top Producing Real Estate Agent Generates Leads  • Miranda has only been in the business for three years and produces at a high level. • Innovative and creative marketing strategies were used to generate leads and attract new clients. • Showing up is key to success: going out, creating conversations, attending events, etc. • Staying top of mind by texting people, popping by with gifts, being positive, etc.   [50:21 - 57:35] Key Traits and Qualities Necessary for Success in Real Estate • Focus on finding your sweet spot in prospecting. • Key traits and qualities for success in real estate: thick skin, honesty, patience, and communication. • Example of hard conversation: telling a client their house is worth less than they thought. • Don't expect an immediate return on work. • Don't ask professionals to cut their fees.   [57:35 - 01:03:58] Educating Homebuyers on the Value of Quality Services • Real estate agents should not be asking for House scan how much they charge for a home inspection. • Loan officers are facing margin compression and need to focus on service rather than interest rates. • It's not until you've had a bad experience that you realize how important it is to provide quality service. • Educate clients on the importance of quality service and why it is necessary. • What you do today will hang around for a while, so make sure it is a good impression.   [01:03:58 - 01:11:18] Raising the Bar: Miranda's Vision for Expanding Her Real Estate Business • Collaborating with other real estate agents in the area to stay abreast of market conditions. • Top agents are supportive and willing to share information. • Raising the bar by providing a greater service. • Using coaching and Brian Buffini's principles to be competitive. • Reflecting on the journey and being happy with the decisions made. • Expanding business by getting coaching, adding a transaction coordinator, and potentially recruiting another loan officer.   [01:11:18 - 01:18:15] Grow Your Real Estate Business with Mentorship and Teamwork • Benefit of hiring a licensed real estate agent to prospect for you. • Retention is key for successful teams. • Growth mindset is important for team members. • Teams should have a clear understanding of their goals and objectives. • Mentorship is important for new agents to get on the right path quickly. • Many successful agents are doing well before the age of 30, but age shouldn't matter.   Quotes   “Fear is a liar. It will tell you that you cannot achieve what you want, but you can, and you must have faith in yourself.” -Miranda Ferreira   "Be authentic. Be you. Being authentic is the best way to advertise yourself, because that's the only way people bond and connect with you.” -Miranda Ferreira   “You don't grow if you're not challenged. If you want to keep growing, you cannot get too comfortable.” -Miranda Ferreira   “In a way, real estate is not too different from physical therapy. It's all about understanding where it hurts for your client, how it hurts, and why. Then, you can provide them with the solution.” -Miranda Ferreira   Learn more about Miranda's business and make contact with her:   Properties of Amelia Island: propertiesofameliaisland.com Miranda Ferreira, Century 21 Miller Elite Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mirandagferreirac21/ Miranda Ferreira, Century 21 Miller Elite Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mirandaferreirac21/?hl=es Miranda Ferreira, Century 21 Miller Elite YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@mirandagferreirac21 LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/mirandagferreirac21    If you want to build your business and become more discoverable online, Streamlined Media has you covered. Check out how they can help you build an evergreen revenue generator all  powered by content creation!   SUBSCRIBE & LEAVE A 5-STAR REVIEW as we discuss real estate excellence with the best of the best.  

In this podcast episode, Kaitlynn Wood, a headstrong 30-year-old female chef, struggles to survive and thrive in the chaotic and thankless world of the restaurant industry, where pirates, misfits, and White Collar pressures clash with her own grit and ambition."It really does take a special someone not only to survive, but to really thrive in an environment of just what feels like complete fucking chaos, but it's pretty damn controlled."Kaitlynn Wood has spent the last few years working in restaurants, and has seen firsthand the 'pirate' and 'misfit' culture of the industry, as well as the transition to the 'white collar era'. She has seen people come and go who thought they could handle it, but it takes a special type of person to thrive in the chaotic, yet controlled environment with long hours and often thankless work. Kaitlynn is a 30 year old female chef who is currently disabled and a survivor of abuse. She has experienced the pirate era of yelling and being called every name in the book, as well as the more recent corporate era where she had to be careful not to swear or call her coworkers 'idiots'. Despite the pressure and the difficulties, she has found joy inIn this episode, you will learn the following:1. How has the COVID-19 pandemic caused a shift in the restaurant industry and creative approaches to food?2. What are the differences between the pirate era and the white collar era in the restaurant industry?3. How has the introduction of robots and AI into restaurants impacted the amount of creativity needed to succeed?Other episodes you'll enjoy:Suki Otsuki the Yoga ChefThe Lady Line Cook on Developing Her Leadership StyleConnect with me: Instagram: @insidethepressurecookerYouTube: @insidethepressurecookerWebsite: https://insidethepressurecooker.comTwitter: @chadkelleyPatreon: @InsidethepressurecookerFeedback: Email me @ Chad@insidethepressurecooker.comLoved this episode? Leave us a review and rating on Apple Podcasts or Follow Us on Spotify or your favorite podcasting platform.[00:00:03]Over the last 20 years working in restaurants, I met a lot of really interesting people. Bourdain called us pirates and misfits, and he couldn't be more right. We really were. I say were. We are a hodgepodge of cultures and backgrounds, and we get to play with food all day, and we get to make a living in that, and it's pretty damn awesome.[00:00:27]This is what inside the Pressure Cooker is all about. It's about making some new friends and. Sharing some stories with some old friends. And listen, we all know that life inside a kitchen is not for everyone. We've seen plenty of people come and go that thought they could hack it and they couldn't.[00:00:47]It really does take a special someone not only to survive, but to really thrive in an environment of just what feels like complete fucking chaos, but it's pretty damn controlled. And then just the constant pressure and the stupid hours you put in, not to mention it can be a very thankless job. Before you know it, it's all in your blood, and it's the only thing you know and you need more. It's an addiction. This is the bond that all wine, cooks, and chefs share.[00:01:17]It's becoming the heartbeat of the kitchen, as cliche as that fucking sounds. But it's in our blood, which means it's fucking pulsing through our veins, and it's what we live for. A quick interruption before we jump on to the rest of this, two things. First, there's a link in the show Notes that well, it's not really a link. It's my email.[00:01:41]Please. I want to hear some feedback from you all. What do you love? What do you not love? This is how I learn.[00:01:48]And the second part I've set up a patreon account for this podcast. The link is also in the show notes below. Please, if you're able to we would love any contribution you're able to support us with. We all have costs that we need to try to cover with this show, and any sport would be greatly, greatly appreciated.[00:02:10]Let's kick off, then. Kaitlynn, give me your 32nd elevator pitch. Who are you? I am a 30 year old female chef. I am actually currently disabled.[00:02:26]I got sick in 2020, and I have not been able to return to work. I'm headstrong, I'm very strong willed, stubborn, hardworking. I don't know when to quit, and I am also a survivor of abuse, which has really shaped my life. Yeah, I can imagine. So let's talk a little bit.[00:02:53]You mentioned a little bit, kind of offline, that you're kind of a product of the pirate era and the white collar era. They kind of expand on that for me. Yeah. Okay. So Anthony Bourdain was the one that called his pirate.[00:03:09]So my chef instructors and my mentors obviously were older than me, so they were a product of the pirate era yelling at you, I got a knife thrown at me. One time for dropping a $30 piece of fish. I've had plates flung at me. I've been called every name in the book and I've given back as well as I've gotten too much to their chagrin. But for the last six years, I worked in corporate and corporate now as a whole kettle of fish.[00:03:39]I can't tell you how many times I got called into the office and they were just like, can't call them a fucking idiot. No matter what they're trying to do. You can't do that and like, yes, chef, that's great. You can't tell them to get the fuck out of your way. I'm like, what am I supposed to say then?[00:03:57]I said, Excuse me three times and they still won't get the fuck out of my way. I got shit to do. You can't say that. So how long did you last in the corporate world then? Six years, actually.[00:04:11]I was with Compass Group about a year after I graduated culinary school. I started out as a part timer, one of their US concepts, which is like a retail kitchen, basically. And you have contracts? We had a contract with a bank in Charlotte. Basically, they paid us to be there to feed their employees, but we still had to make a profit.[00:04:39]So Compass Group is actually like the number 7th employer in the world or something like that. They have a lot of different sectors, obviously. It sounds like it was more of a cooking was like a release for you to kind of get rid of that pressure and that tension and it just made you feel good. But cooking in the industry is very different. So how did you know, though, once you were cooking and you were professionally cooking, so to speak, that it's like, okay, I made the right decision.[00:05:12]Like, I'm in the right spot. How did you know? Did you know? I did. Okay, so my mom left us kids when I was six.[00:05:23]My brother was six months old and my sister was nine. Right. And we had to have dinner on the table by six. So I cooked a lot. And I absolutely loved it when people would eat my food and they would be happy.[00:05:40]After I was in the industry, through all the stress and the pressure, just seeing someone love my food is just the best. Just to see people happy. I 100% understand that. I really feel like we feed the soul. Oh, yes, absolutely.[00:06:02]Sometimes we're just providing fuel for people, but that feeds our soul. And sometimes we're cooking for other people's soul.[00:06:15]We've got Thanksgiving and Christmas where everybody kind of gets together. There's always something that's going on, but a lot of times all those traditional dishes that are out there, they're more there for nostalgia and to kind of feed your soul a little bit, because that reminds you of the nostalgia. It takes you back to someone's house or that memory so food is a very powerful element. It is. It's very connected to memory, especially smell.[00:06:48]Yeah, I remember reading something about that, where food, like food has got one of the strongest triggers for any memory because it involves essentially all the senses. Yeah. And being transported back to that time when you were happy or when you were with friends. So it can be a really great mood booster. And I feel like mental health and depression doesn't get talked about enough.[00:07:21]And like we've said, like you guys have said on the podcast before, is that drugs and alcohol is only going to drag down well, but behind every addiction is a problem with your mental health. Is that why it's stressy? Yes, it is why you stress eat, especially chocolate, because chocolate metabolizes into serotonin, which is to get happy drug. But all of your serotonin is made in your gut. It's all made in the gut.[00:07:55]So that's why it is learn something every day. I did not know that. This is why I like the science of food. It's very interesting. I'll start taking better care of my gut.[00:08:07]That's a whole other story there. Oh, yeah. That's the one thing that still has not recovered from my illnesses from 2020. Trust me, nobody wants to hear about that. Well, that's fantastic.[00:08:21]I mean, so it sounds like you've got I mean, you're obviously a product of your past. We all are, whether we really know it or not. But you definitely have seen a lot of adversity and challenges.[00:08:38]You definitely are not the type of person, just from talking to you, that's going to let that dominate you or let you play the victim by any means. Oh, hell no. I learned from an early age that when you get knocked down, you get back up. And that's what grit is. And you have to have grit.[00:09:00]That's a great word to be able to survive. And the restaurant industry, if you don't have grit, it will eat you alive and it will spit you back out. There was this one kid that I went to school with. He started his first job in a restaurant after we graduated, and he could only do one dish at a time. Now, that one dish was beautiful, but they gave him some feedback and he just kind of fell apart because we were competitive and cold.[00:09:38]Was the feedback something like, hurry the fuck up. Yeah. And he just kind of fell apart. And I was just shaking my head. Like, dude, he should be going to food styling, not commercial production.[00:09:53]Yes. Go somewhere where you can just make food look pretty. How many people from your class, whether it's a number or percentage, do you think are still cooking today from your culinary school? Statistically between 5% and 8%. Okay, that sounds about right.[00:10:11]Well, yeah, that number might have dropped a little bit since 2020. Yeah. It's funny how COVID it almost needs to be renamed, like, the Great Alignment or Realignment. Yes. There was, you know, a big shift in a lot of Pivoting during 2020, and, you know, even those of us who had it together and was rolling with the punches, some of us got sick and were not able to cook in the kitchen anymore, and that just sucked.[00:10:46]There's so many great chefs and great people that we have lost, and I really feel like our industry is really in danger right now because there are labor shortages everywhere across the country. No matter how well you pay, no matter what your benefits are, they're starting to mechanize a lot of stuff. Even in, like, casual dining restaurants, you're. Starting to get into some. Yeah.[00:11:16]What was it Patrick and I were talking about conspiracy theories here.[00:11:23]No, I know. I joke about it, but how AI, though, is coming into so much more. And, man, I mean, those MIT students are creating robots to essentially take over cooking. There's robots that are out there already in use in restaurants right now.[00:11:49]The only thing they got to do is change a fire oil, maybe, or just hit the button to turn it on and get it programmed. But it's out there, and it's real, and it is actually happening right now. Yeah. My husband, he actually works in a casual dining restaurant, and they're a test kitchen because they're just so shorthanded all the time that they're introducing, like, a warmer drawer that keeps the potatoes warm for X amount of time after you pull them out. Just other little things like that that reduces labor.[00:12:32]Yeah, I bet there's been a lot of people having to go back to the drawing board and just, hey, everything was designed to do this. Now we needed to do this. It's almost like NASA astronauts, like, scrambling.[00:12:46]We're running out of gas. What do we do? Yeah, so this time has definitely really tapped into creativity, especially for owner operators. It's funny you say that, because creativity has suffered in some ways, but it hasn't in others. We've had to get more creative in just different ways.[00:13:14]And so sometimes the food can be just as creative for chefs that are able to put some of their input into it and be creative with it. Some of them had to get more creative because of whether it's less people and also just trying to make their margins on even less or make up for some food cost just as those prices go up. But then there's also just getting creative on figuring it out, like, how is this all going to work when if someone doesn't show up? So, I mean, but I also know what you're saying, because in some ways, it creative is suffered because they're not able to. In some ways, it's become where there was creativity.[00:14:07]It's been more standardized to eliminate creativity because a lot of ownership always believe that creativity caused food costs to go up. Yeah, that's their impression, but it's really not true. I have noticed on menus, I've seen a lot more cross utilization of ingredients. That's a trend I've definitely been noticing. And then they're working the people that they have to death trying to use up every little scrap that they have, turning into something new.[00:14:48]And I found that to be very interesting. It's definitely something that I worked on in 2020, they're really going back to more old school methods. Like, we have this fat from I don't know, we cut off some fat from a ribeye. Well, they're rendering it down to use for cooking now. But granted, I worked in a hospital that was in the middle of Podunk, so they loved country cooking, which was so boring.[00:15:28]So fucking boring. Even at a hospital.[00:15:34]When Compass Group, when they have a contract with the hospital, they don't just feed the patient. They also have a retail area that feeds the employees. No, I've just known in general, there's so much of that. Even with the employee side of things, everything is so there's not a lot of effort. I think that would be the best way to put it.[00:15:59]And I've spent some time in hospitals. My son got some long term medical issues. And like this last summer, we spent two weeks in a hospital just for a couple of surgeries. So I had plenty of hospital food during that time. So I get it.[00:16:17]Yeah. That was my first chef manager job, which was really hard for me. That transition was very difficult. And believe it or not, I had an all female staff. There's a lot more women in health care than there generally are in other sectors.[00:16:40]But having an all female staff with a whole different kettle of fish than 2020 hit. And then you got to make this change, and that change. And even though I just finished that, I got to go back and do this. So I would wear three and four hats a day. Chef manager, grill, cook, patient cook, and to have to take trays up to the patients.[00:17:06]Okay, five, because I had wash dishes, too. Why do you think there is more females in the hospital sector than whether it's catering or restaurants? It's kind of interesting, maybe. Was it just that area, or is that statistically pretty common? That's statistically pretty common that there's a lot more females in health care.[00:17:33]So in the first kitchen that I worked in, there was the first healthcare kitchen I worked in. So there's politics everywhere, right? And I hate politics with a burning passion. But some of those politics and policies in place protect the female employees more because they have somewhere to go if they're being sexually harassed or intimidated or whatever, and there's more support for females in general. Interesting.[00:18:13]So it's just a safer place is what you're saying, then. Yes, absolutely.[00:18:20]With my experience across the board. That was definitely a place where I could make my voice heard. And I think that's why females stay in those kitchens, because there's a lot of women that will quit from, like, casual dining or fine dining simply because of harassment or being talked down to or not being appreciated. It comes down to culture. How much of that culture you think is kind of that pirate era?[00:18:56]You mentioned the pirate era in the beginning versus the white collar era, where definitely more white collar in hospitals, for obvious reasons. You've got HR people that are watching you all the time, and in smaller restaurants, you're not going to have that. But there's an age difference as well. There's a generational difference that is expecting kind of the white collar, we'll just say treatment. But a lot of people that are still running the restaurants and owners are very much so in the pirate era.[00:19:30]Would you agree with that? Absolutely. And that's kind of where that disconnect is, maybe. Yes. And some of the chefs have made that transition and some of them have not.[00:19:41]And the ones that I see that have not made the transition is, like you said, in places that have less oversight. Yeah, I can see that, because if. You'Ve got someone in HR across the hall from your kitchen that you can go talk to, then, especially in a hospital setting, they're going to have to do something about it. There's a zero tolerance policy, not just with the hospital, and that's a contract. When you sign the contract, you agree to those terms.[00:20:12]It's a zero tolerance policy. Now, when you get away from hospitals and healthcare facilities, schools, and you go into even casual dining, you don't have an HR person in the building the majority of the time. You just have whoever the kitchen managerial staff is, and they're going to be your older, more piratey chefs for sure. Because in regular kitchens I'm going to put it that way. Can I start over?[00:20:47]Sure. So in like, restaurant kitchens, there's a lot more pressure, there's a lot more chaos, there's less organization, and there's less structure. I don't know if I'd necessarily agree with that part, though. What I mean by that is the patients have to be fed at a certain time. The patient count fluctuates some from day to day.[00:21:09]Okay, I got you. And then retail has to open by a certain time every day. Yeah. Restaurants are a lot more free for. All ebb and flow.[00:21:19]Okay, I'm sorry. Keep going. So even if the chef isn't complicit, you can't be everywhere at once. You can't see everything. So I feel like those kinds of complaints are a lot easier to sweep under the rug.[00:21:37]Right. Because it's a person versus person, she said. And more people have their heads down just trying to do their work. They're not really paying attention. Yeah, I'd hate to think that.[00:21:56]It's just always a he said, she said. I mean, obviously, whenever there's an accusation, you know, there needs to be some form of follow up. But to me, that's also just I think you've mentioned this as well. That's just 100% a culture thing, regardless of the size of your restaurant.[00:22:19]Honestly, I think that's a big issue with a lot of these so called I don't want to say so called, but, like, staffing issues.[00:22:31]I've gone to some places where they're short staffed, they're struggling, and you can just tell and you can also feel a difference, and then you'll go somewhere else and you get to look around and you're like, staffing is not an issue here. But it also feels different. And it's just they're staffed because people want to be there without turning into a big corporate behemoth where everything is about, oh, man. I don't want to say rules and regulations because that's it.[00:23:16]What's the solve for that? You think outside of just God, how do you even answer that? How does anyone answer that? And thank you for listening to this episode Up Inside the Pressure Cooker. If you enjoyed this episode and feel like you're able to take something away from it, please go to Apple podcasts and rate and review us.[00:23:39]If you don't use Apple podcasts, please follow us as well as share this episode with a friend. This is a publication by Rare Plus Media, hosted and produced by me from Rare Plus Media and myself, Chad Kelley. Thank you for listening. Keep kicking ass.

Paul Harvey - Podunk

Demon Knight is by far our favorite entry into the Tales From The Crypt universe, and Billy Zane's most incredible performance. William Sadler, Jada Pinkett not yet Smith, Thomas Haden Church, and everything you want in a horror comedy.Edward Guthmann of the San Francisco Chronicle wrote that, "though the film is dull and slow-paced, if I were 12, I might've loved it." Find UsTwitter - https://twitter.com/LastClerksInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/thelastvideostoreclerks/Facebook.com/lastclerksSubscribe to Podcast:Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-last-video-store-clerks/id1619037600Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2c2ui17JePSCB6WjlWgy2o?si=TBLDrE8DS4GkY1ZJUTayXQEverywhere Else: https://the-last-video-store-clerks.captivate.fm/listenThe Last Video Store Clerks website Tales from the Crypt: Demon Knight streamingAmazon LinkTales From the Crypt Presents Demon Knight - Rotten TomatoesTales from the Crypt: Demon Knight Reviews - MetacriticDemon Knight - WikipediaTales from the Crypt: Demon Knight (1995) - IMDb Copyright 2022 Last Clerks

“Why was it, O sea, that you fled, O Jordan, that you turned back, you mountains, that you skipped like rams, you hills like lambs? (Psalm 114:5-6). Let's begin with some things Pastor Anthony said yesterday about Psalm 113. That psalm asks: “Who is like the Lord our God?” Answer? No one. Nothing. Our God is utterly unique. And in his Son Jesus Christ, we get an even better look at him. He did not consider equality with God as something to be used to his own advantage but instead became nothing. The highest of the high, the utterly transcendent, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God was born into this world as the lowest of the low: the baby out-of-wedlock of a poor peasant couple from the Podunk frontier town of Nazareth. Why did our God take such a lowly path? To raise us up to the highest heights with him, that's why.  It was Israel who was first brought up from their poverty and need in Egypt: they were set free and made into a people. Among Jews, Psalms 113 & 114 are recited at the beginning of the Passover meal. Why did God's people choose this Psalm to remember the victory of their God? Because it puts the eaters smack dab in the middle of the great saving acts of God. With vivid simplicity the psalm proclaims what happens when God shows up. Showing up in power, his first act is to choose Israel both for His sanctuary and His kingdom. Thus, if anyone else in all the earth wants to meet God or observe life in his realm, all they need do is show up in Israel. All contrary powers are driven from the field by His appearance. The chaotic powers that put salvation in question must flee before Him. In His presence the mountains- the symbols of all that is solid, durable-quake. God's mighty salvific work is proclaimed by all the facts that are brought together in this weighty hymn. When Israel is thirsty, God offers her water from the rocks and desert sands. When she is hungry, she can pluck birds out of the air and bread from the ground. God provides for those who are near Him. The elements of creation react to the powerful appearance of God. Because they move before God's coming, Israel's passage into the Promised Land stretches out before her. All this and more are remembered as the Jews sit down to eat the Passover meal. Do you know why Christians choose to worship on the first day of the week rather than the Jewish seventh? The early Christians saw Easter as our Exodus. As much as the Exodus from Egypt shaped the imagination, the memory, and the living faith of Old Testament Israel, the resurrection of Jesus Christ, shapes the imagination, the memory, and the living faith of the church. As much as the Exodus was the birth of Israel, so Easter is the birth of the church. And as much as Israel was God's dominion and sanctuary in the Old Testament, we believe the church is God's kingdom and sanctuary today. Thus, if anyone else in all the earth wants to meet God or observe life in His Kingdom, all they need do is find the church of Jesus. There Psalms are recited as the opening of the Passover meal. They helped the eaters enter the story of God, their story. We worship Jesus today to enter the story of Easter, to make it our story. How does Easter shape your life? How will living in the presence of the God who raised Jesus from the dead, impact your life today?

Who is like the Lord our God, the One who sits enthroned on high, who stoops down to look on the heavens and the earth? He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap; he seats them with princes, with the princes of his people. (Psalm 113:5-8)   There is something unique about Israel's God that sets him apart from any other human or deity.  Not only is he high above the highest heights—a great God on the throne who reigns over the whole of the universe—but he is also a God who stoops down to look on the heavens and the earth, even taking an interest in the plight of the poor and needy—the lowliest of the low.  There was no other deity of the ancient world like that.  Sure there were gods that sat in highest heights, but they didn't care about any human problems.  And sure there were great heroes among men, but even they were not terribly concerned about the lowest of the low.  That Israel's God could and did span and draw together such a mindbending spectrum as that between the utterly transcendent throne room of heaven and the utterly mundane and imminent ash heap of the needy made this God simply incomparable.  So, the psalm asks: “who is like the Lord our God?”  Answer there?  No one.  Nothing.  Our God is utterly unique.  And in his Son Jesus Christ, we get an even better look at him.  This one who did not consider equality with God as something to be used to his own advantage but instead became nothing.  The highest of the high, the utterly transcendent, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God was born into this world as the lowest of the low: the baby out-of-wedlock of a poor peasant couple from the Podunk frontier town of Nazareth. Why did our God take such a lowly path?  To raise us up to the highest heights with him, that's why.  It was Israel who was first brought up from their poverty and need in Egypt: they were set free and made into a people.  And with Jesus, we too have been raised up.  We have not been given an earthly place, but a heavenly place next to the prince of peace who has become our brother.  Of course, God still does this work of justice and of salvation in a thousand other ways too.  He really does rescue the poor and lifts them up.  He really does still rescue the needy of our world from the ash heaps.  Sometimes he even invites us into that work—to join him, our prince, into the places where he is still today, spanning the gap between the highest heights and the lowest lows.  Our God still sees, he still acts. He still hears the cries of those who have long been oppressed, and he still moves in justice and salvation on their behalf.  We are never to think that we are too high not to stoop down low.  Nor are we to ever think we are too low not to be lifted back up high.  Our God is in both places, and meets us in each.  Rescuing us, and also inviting us to join him in his work of bringing justice, grace, and mercy to others, too.  Praise the Lord for his great work that continues even today!  Praise the Lord, for there is no one else like him!  

Morgan preached from Matthew 2 today.  Morgan started with the story of John Graham Burge, an American police detective for the Chicago police department who was found guilty of having "directly participated in or implicitly approved the torture" of at least 118 people in police custody in order to force false confessions.  He was later convicted, but this is a very real event from our time where a man took advantage of his authority.  Our history has many examples of where this has happened.  Abuse of power is a very real thing.  Power can become the weapon of the insecure.  With great power comes great responsibility.  In today's world, many don't handle power well.  We are always looking for control.  Power infused with insecurity creates a real threat.  From Matthew 2, we see all of this with King Herod.     Morgan titled his talk today "A Tale of Two Kings"; Herod, who inherited his power, and Jesus, the only King.   We looked at Herod, Jesus and the Magi from the East.   I know in the past, I have read this as "The Christmas Story" and never really dug into it like we did today.   Let's start with King Herod.  When the Magi came looking for the new king, Herod was deeply disturbed.  He was a paranoid, unstable man who had 3 of his sons killed and his wife killed.  He was terrified of this new baby that was born who some were saying was a king.  When your power is threatened, you can do unthinkable things.   Does a little of King Herod live in all of us?  Do we sometimes hate, feel jealous and try to take control of our lives and call all the shots?  Do we have 2 kings at war within us?  When we act like King Herod, are we jockeying for power in our own lives?  What is it in your own life, that you can't let go of?  Jesus can rescue us from our own insecurity.   Dale Bruner said it best.  "Herod is not dead; Herod lives on in us, the people of God.  The exaggerated ambitions, pretensions, self-centeredness, greed for position, grudge against God, guile (craftiness), and finally human cruelty and insensitivity-the fruit of our war with God-must be contented with even by Christians until the Last Judgement.  There are two kings at war in the world and in all of us- Herod and Christ.  We know who will win, but meanwhile the battle rages .  Herod is here in the scripture partly as a warning to the Christian reader of who he or she, in no little measure, still is."   Herod knows he has been tricked.  He is fearful so he puts fear into everyone by ordering all boys under age 2 in the area killed.  Can you hear the mama's cries?  This is systemic injustice at it's finest.  Do you think the people wondered where God was and how this could happen?  We live in a fallen world just like they did back in this time.  Pain and suffering are all around us and yet God is still working.  It's so hard to live life in the present and be attentive to what God is doing even in the midst of pain and suffering.   We do know of 1 little boy who survived the massacre and he saved the world.  All this takes place to fulfill the scriptures.   Then we looked at the Magi from the East.  They came with excitement looking for the new King.  They were from Babylon which is Iraq today.  This is the first encounter Jesus has with ethnic outsiders.  Magi's where despised.  They were pagan astrologers with great wealth.  This is a perfect example of God's grace and kindness drawing ethnic outsiders to him.  They are on a long journey that is not convenient, and not safe.  And still, the Magi were full of joy searching for the truth.  When they found him, they bowed down and worshipped him.  Matthew 28:17.  This is our purpose.  WE are to be worshippers of Jesus.  We are to lay our best at his feet.  Matthew 2:12 talks about how the Magi were warned to go home a different way and not back to Herod.  They also went "another way" because they were transformed.  This is discipleship.  Another interesting point from today.....after this point in Matthew, Herod is only referred to as Herod and not King Herod.   We wrapped up by looking at Jesus our refugee King.  When you think about it, the first Christmas is terrifying.  There was a teen pregnancy that could have been punishable by death, Joseph had to flee to Egypt with his family, they had to protect Jesus from being killed by Herod's order, and they became refugees in a foreign land.  JESUS IS the immigrant story!  How we treat immigrants matters to God.   In verses 19-20 we look at after Herod died.  Joseph, Mary and Jesus were headed back to Israel when they detoured to Galilee and ended up in Nazareth.  Nazareth isn't even mentioned in the old testament.  It was an insignificant, small town.  This is also a part of the story of Jesus.  As Morgan said, "Jesus came from the hood."  Jesus was a refugee, on the run who ended up in a Podunk town.  This also fulfilled the scriptures.  The humble way Jesus came to be matters.   We should us this to shape our discipleship and behavior.   Matthew is also telling us that we cannot have a neutral response to Jesus.  Jesus cannot sit in the passenger seat of our lives.  Who will you model your life after?  What do you need to let go of and let God take over.  

What you'll learn in this episode: How your location affects SEO, and why firms in major metros need to market differently than rural or suburban firms How traditional advertising and brand building can complement SEO What end-to-end SEO is, and why Chris' company does nothing but SEO How long you can expect to work with an SEO firm before seeing results Why it's better to not do SEO at all than do it halfheartedly About Chris Dreyer Chris Dreyer is the CEO and Founder of Rankings.io, an SEO agency that helps elite personal injury law firms land serious injury and auto accident cases through Google's organic search results. His company has the distinction of making the Inc. 5000 list four years in a row. Chris's journey in legal marketing has been a saga, to say the least. A world-ranked collectible card game player in his youth, Chris began his “grown up” career with a History Education degree and landed a job out of college as a detention room supervisor. The surplus of free time in that job allowed him to develop a side hustle in affiliate marketing, where (at his apex) he managed over 100 affiliate sites simultaneously, allowing him to turn his side gig into a full-time one. When his time in affiliate marketing came to an end, he segued into SEO for attorneys, while also having time to become a top-ranked online poker player. Today, Chris is the CEO and founder of Rankings.io, an SEO agency specializing in elite personal injury law firms and 4x consecutive member of the Inc. 5000. In addition to owning and operating Rankings, Chris is a real estate investor and podcast host, as well as a member of the Forbes Agency Council, the Rolling Stone Culture Council, Business Journals Leadership Trust, Fast Company Executive Board, and Newsweek Expert Forum. Chris's first book, Niching Up: The Narrower the Market, the Bigger the Prize, is slated for release in late 2022. Additional Resources Chris Dreyer LinkedIn Rankings.io Twitter Rankings.io Facebook Rankings.io Instagram Transcript: SEO is a complicated beast. If you want to conquer it, you have to go in ready to swing, according to Chris Dreyer. As CEO of Rankings.io, Chris specializes in working with personal injury lawyers and law firms to get them on the first page of Google in competitive markets. He joined the Law Firm Marketing Catalyst Podcast to talk about how the “proximity factor” affects Google rankings; why your content is the first area to target if you want to improve your rankings; and how SEO, digital marketing and traditional advertising all work together to build your brand. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Welcome to The Law Firm Marketing Catalyst Podcast. Today, my guest is Chris Dreyer, CEO of Rankings.io. His firm specializes in working with elite personal injury firms, helping them to generate auto accident and other cases involving serious personal injury. He does this through Google's organic keyword search rankings which, to me, is quite a challenge. This is a very competitive market, and it's one that requires a very healthy budget if you're going to be successful. Today, Chris is going to tell us about his journey and some of what he's learned along the way. Chris, welcome to the program. Chris: Sharon, thanks so much for having me. Sharon: Great to have you. Tell us about your career path. You weren't five years old saying this is what you wanted to do. Chris: I've always been an entrepreneur. I saw my uncle. My uncle's a very successful business CEO for many organizations. He's had a really interesting career path. I told my parents before I went to college that no matter what I got a degree in, I was going to start and own my business at one point, and they were on the same page. I ended up getting a history education degree. I was a teacher, and I was working in a detention room when I typed in “how to make money online,” probably the worst query you could possibly type in. But I found a basic course that taught me the fundamentals of digital marketing and I pursued that. By the end of my second year teaching, I was making about four times the amount from that than I got from teaching. So, I went all in and did some affiliate marketing. I had some ups and downs with that. Then I went and worked for another agency and rose to their lead consultant. Then I had an epiphany and thought, “I think I can do this myself. I think I can do it better,” and that's what I did. That's when I started. At the time, it was attorney rankings. Sharon: Wow! Had you played around with attorney rankings before, when you were a teacher and just typing away? Chris: When I worked for this digital agency that's no longer in business, they were a generalist agency, but they worked with many law firms and attorneys. I was their lead account manager. I just enjoyed working with them. I enjoyed the competition and the satisfaction I would get from ranking a site in a more competitive vertical. That's how I chose legal. I wanted to look for something that had a longstanding business. I didn't want to jump into something fast or tech-related that could be changing all the time; I wanted something with a little bit more longevity. Sharon: Did you ever want to be a lawyer yourself? Chris: I ask that to myself all the time. I think about it now, mainly because of all the relationships I have, how easy it could be for a referral practice. We have our own agency and I know how to generate leads now. So, I ask myself that a lot. That's a 2½ to 3-year commitment. You never know; I may end up getting my degree. Sharon: There are a lot of history majors who went into law and then probably decided they wanted to do something else, so that's a great combination you have. It's Rankings.io. What's the .io? Chris: There are these new top-level domain extensions. There are .org, .net, .com. Now you see stuff like .lawyer or .red. There are all kinds of different categories of those domains. Tech companies frequently use .io, standing for “input” and “output.”  How I look at it, or how I make the justification for it, is that if you invest in us, you get cases—input/output. Sharon: Can you make up your own top level or is there a list somewhere? Chris: There's a big list. GoDaddy and NameSheet.com have many of them. In legal specifically, there's .law, there's . attorney, there's .lawyer, I believe even .legal. Most industries have their own top-level domain extension now. Sharon: I've seen .io, but I never knew what it stood for. You don't see it that often. I happened to be Googling somebody in Ireland the other day. Most of the places were using .com, but this was using .ie, and I thought, “What is .ie?” but it turns out it was Ireland. Tell us a little about your business. What kinds of clients do you have? Is there seasonality? Chris: We help personal injury attorneys. We primarily work with personal injury law firms that are midsize to large. Typically not solo practitioners and new firms, but more established firms trying to break into major markets in metropolitan areas, your Chicagos, your Philadelphias, your bigger cities that have a lot of competition. We've been around since 2013. We don't work with a high volume of clients because our investments are higher, because to rank in these big cities takes a lot of quantitative actions, a lot of production. We currently work with around 45 to 50 firms, and that's what we do. We do search engine optimization for personal injury law firms. Sharon: Search engine optimization for personal injury law firms. To me, that seems like a lot. It's great. Are these typically smaller firms that are in—I don't know—Podunk, Iowa, and they say, “I want to go to the big city”? Is that what happens? Chris: Typically, it's one of two things. It's either a TV, radio, traditional advertiser that wants to focus more on digital that has a larger investment. They have more capital to invest. Or, it's someone that wants to get creative and focus on digital to try to take market share away from the big TV advertisers. Most of the time it's individuals in big cities because there are tons of personal injury attorneys. Right now, I'm in Marion, Illinois. There's a handful of attorneys. Most of them aren't focused on marketing. Just by the nature of having a practice, they typically show up in the Map Pack. That's not the case in Chicago. You actually have to aggressively market to show up on the first page of Google. Sharon: If somebody's already spending a lot of money on TV or radio or billboards in Chicago, are your clients people who have turned around and said, “I can do better if I put this money all into digital and rankings.” Does that happen? Chris: I personally am not an “or.” I'm an “and.” You did TV? Well, let's also do SEO. Let's also do pay-per-click. I like the omnichannel approach. I think there are two types of marketing. There is lead generation and direct response. That's your pay-per-click, your SEO, things like that. Then there's demand generation and brand building. The thing about demand generation and brand building is they actually complement direct response, and you can get lower cost per acquisition. To give you an example, if you're a big TV advertiser and have an established brand, and someone types something into Google, you may capture that click because they recognize your company as opposed to someone that isn't as known. I think they all work together. Of course, we're always playing the attention arbitrage game. We want to go to the locations where our money can carry the most weight to get us the most attention. For example, right now, individuals are going to TikTok and Instagram Reels and YouTube Shorts because there isn't the same amount of competition there. That's where a lot of tension and competition are occurring. It's a constant game, and it's something to be apprised of and aware of what's going on. Sharon: Is that something you also do in terms of rankings? Do you do TikTok or Instagram or anything like that, or Google My Business? Is it all of those? Chris: We use that ourselves to market our business because we're omnichannel, but for our clients, we focus solely on design and SEO. That's simply because we have intense focus and expertise in those areas. We want to be the best in the world and really dialed in to all the fundamental changes that occur. But knowing that limitation, knowing that there is more effort and sacrifice if someone wants to come to us because we don't do everything, we like to be aware of who is providing services in those other areas. Who's the best at pay-per-click, who's the best at social media. We try to make it as easy as possible to get our clients help in those areas too. Sharon: How do you keep up with everything? There are so many different things. Chris: Obsession. I think of it as a game. I always tell people that running a digital agency is like a game that pays me. I truly believe that, because I enjoy what I do. I don't love the quote that if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. I don't believe that's completely true, but I don't have the same stressors and I enjoy what I do. So, that's an obsession. Sharon: So that's dinner-table talk. Chris: Oh, yeah. Sharon: What keeps you attracted to attorneys? A lot of people say, “O.K., I've had it.” What keeps you attracted? Chris: I think they're providing a good service to the common individual and fighting against big insurance companies. Generally, they get a bad rap, particularly personal injury attorneys. They're referred to as ambulance chasers. Sometimes individuals get creative, and they refer to me and our agency as an ambulance-chaser chaser. But in general, they're the plaintiffs; they're trying to help individuals that have been injured. I think where they get a bad rap is sometimes people are banging down their doors and soliciting them right after they're injured or in the hospital bed. Other times, you'll see these big billboards where it's like, “How could you possibly put that up on a billboard?” There's a complete lack of EQ or empathy. It's like, “Congratulations. You just lost a leg. Contact us,” or “Congratulations. Someone's seriously hurt.” It's just the wrong messaging. That's where they get a bad rap, but the overwhelming majority are truly trying to provide value and help these injured victims. Sharon: Do you ever work with defense firms or law firms that aren't personal injury? Chris: That's a good question. Our focus and expertise is personal injury, and what I tell other businesses and my peers is that it gives us optionality. If I think we can help a law firm and we can serve them and continue to provide extreme value, we will selectively take those opportunities. Right now we have about 45 clients, and I think three of them aren't personal injury law firms. It just happened to be the perfect prospect for us. They were in competitive markets. They had these clearly defined goals and brands, and we wanted to help them. Sharon: How about other legal services, like—I forget; I think it's Legal Voice or something like that. If it's a graphics firm that does graphics for trials, do you work with that kind of firm? Chris: We've worked with some. I can't think of any specifically. I would say our business is more focused on the front end, the marketing and awareness side, and less on the sales intake or operations side. Operations would be your trials and customer service and things like that. At this point in time, we're focused solely on lead generation, and that's an issue upon itself. Our job is to overwhelm the sales department. Intake is a whole different ballgame. Sometimes intake has to be addressed, but it's not us. We have referrals that we give for that. Sharon: Do you work with only lawyers, or do you work with marketing directors at these firms? Who are you typically working with? Chris: Most of the time it's the lead attorney. There are some firms that have a CMO or a marketing manager, but I would say that's the minority. When they get a CMO, typically it's at your higher eight-figure or nine-figure firms, and they will start to bring these services in-house. So, most of the time it's still the lead attorney. Sharon: You used a term I hadn't heard before, end-to-end SEO. What does that mean? Chris: It's a great question. A lot of digital agencies that are full-service, they'll offer design and social and PPC. They have a very narrow span of control, meaning you get assigned a SEO specialist, and that SEO specialist is supposed to be able to write content, optimize your site, do your local SEO, do your link building. Look, I don't believe in unicorns. I don't think people have the skillset to do all of those. So, when I say end-to-end, we have a dedicated content department with writers; we have a dedicated, on-site SEO and technical department to optimize your site; we have a dedicated local department that only works with local maps and helps you on the Map Pack; we have a dedicated link-building department. It's the full spectrum of SEO as opposed to getting these generalists, where maybe they're good at one thing and not good at the other things. Sharon: Do you think your market understands the term end-to-end SEO? Chris: Probably not. I probably should work on the copyrighting a little bit, but I do like to make that distinction. Even though we're specialists and do only SEO, you can take it a step farther. If you look at how we staff, everybody's a SEO specialist, as opposed to it being an add-on or backend service. Sharon: The Map Pack, is that where you have the top three local firms on a map near you, when you search “Starbucks near me” or “Personal injury firm near me”? I say Starbucks because we did that last weekend. I know things are always changing, but if it's a one- or two-person personal injury firm and they don't have the budget you're talking about, can they do anything themselves? What do you recommend? Chris: That's a good question. If you don't have a budget, try to scrape your budget together and get a website made the easiest way you can, whether it's a WordPress site or a template. That's your main conversion point. Try to get your practice area pages and your sales pages created as an outlet for conversions. If you don't have a big budget and you're in a metropolitan area, I would encourage you to look at other opportunities to generate business, potentially on-the-ground, grassroots business development practices where you're making relationships with other attorneys. That can carry a lot of weight and get you started. SEO is a zero-sum game. Either you rank in the top positions or you don't, and if you don't, you're not going to get the clicks. If you're on the second page of Google, you might as well be on the 90th page. No one goes to page two. So, if you're going to do SEO, you can't just dip your toe into it. You've got to go in ready to swing and ready to do the quantitative actions to get results. Otherwise, you might as well not do it at all. You might as well choose a different channel. Sharon: That's interesting. So, if you Google your firm and find you're on the second page, should you just give it up and say, “O.K., I'm not going to do anything in this area”? Chris: If you're working with an SEO agency and you're on the second page of Google, I would tell you to—well, first of all, depending upon the length of time you've been with them, if you've given them sufficient time, then I would say you probably need a different SEO agency. If you are on the second page of Google and you're not doing SEO, that's O.K. You could still rank for your brand, your firm name, particularly some of the attorney names, the name of their company. There are probably not going to be many of those. You're probably going to rank for that. I would find a different way to generate leads. It may even mean working for someone else to generate revenue before you go in and start your own practice. Sharon: So, being a lawyer in a law firm first and getting your feet wet that way. You mentioned something about the length of time. How long should you give a firm before you say, “O.K., thanks”? Chris: I'm going to give the lawyer answer here. It depends. If you've been doing SEO for a long time and you have a tremendous amount of links and content, it could be a technical SEO coding issue, maybe a site architecture issue. Maybe you need as little as 90 days to truly make a huge impact. We just took on a client in Florida that had a tremendous amount of links, a tremendous amount of content. We literally just unclogged the sink, so to speak, and they're skyrocketing in a short amount of time. If you're in a major market and you just got your website built and you don't have links, it's going to take some time. All of these SEO specialists will say it takes six months. That's completely untrue. It's based upon the gap. What are you benchmarking against? What does the data show? It could be nine months; it could be 14 months based upon the quantitative actions you're taking. If you don't take the correct quantitative actions, you could be treading water, too. So, it really depends. You can see results quickly. It just depends on where you're at in your state for your firm. Sharon: Since you work with attorneys, I'm sure more than once you've heard, “Chris, I've waited three months. What's going on? How long do I have to wait? We're pouring money into this.” What's your response? Chris: That's a great question. We try to set those expectations on the front end before we even sign them as a client, but occasionally those situations will slip through. Maybe we didn't have those conversations enough or they weren't clear enough. We have a series in our onboarding called “Teach Our Clients Not to Be Crazy.” I'm being really transparent here. Clients become crazy when expectations were not set. If they're set in the front end when we sign them and it's part of our onboarding processes, we say, “This is how long it's going to take to get results.” We're not three months down the road getting that, because we already told them on the front end this is how long it will take. The same for your operation processes like content or reporting. You report our meeting cadences, your communication preferences, all these things. We do that in our “Teach Our Clients Not to Be Crazy.” That's the biggest issue. Most individuals don't have those expectations set well enough on the front end. Sharon: So, you basically say, “It depends. I don't know. We'll have to see. We have to look at your website.” Do you start usually by looking at the site architecture? Do you change—I forget what you call it—the headings at the top of the page, things that are searchable? Chris: We have a very thorough diagnostic that uses a lot of data from different APIs, Ahrefs, and other tools that help us with benchmarking and setting these goals and KPIs. We look at three primary pillars. We'll look at their content to see if it's targeting keywords properly, if it's well-written, if they're missing content. We'll look at their architecture, like you said, to see if the information is easily accessible, if they can Google the website and the consumer can find the information they're looking for, if it loads quickly. Then we will look at their backlink profile to see if they have enough endorsements. If you're trying to win an election, you want to get as many votes as possible. If you're trying to win the first page of Google, you want to get as many high-quality links as possible. So, we'll take a look at that too. There are a lot of subcategories to those, but those are the big, top-level things we look at. Sharon: Of course, we're a PR firm and we do a lot of PR, a lot of article writing for the media. We've had SEO companies say, “I want to see the article before you post it. I want to pump it up, add words, delete words.” Do you do things like that, or is that more on the PR side? Chris: I'll be transparent. I don't love it because it hurts things from a throughput perspective and getting it to the end. It's a bottleneck. It delays things. We do heavy, up-front analysis of the content to try to identify voice and their style. We go through a style guide and try to identify their taglines. It's very cumbersome up front. Then we try to get their permission to not do the approval process. Not everyone will allow us to do that, but we like to say it delays us. If we're an SEO agency and we write 40 articles a month, and if the client takes a month to approve them, we don't have any content to market. So, we try to avoid that when we can. Sharon: Yeah, lawyers didn't go to law school for SEO; they went to be lawyers. Chris: And I think there's this perception where they think everybody in the world is going to see the content. We can publish the content then make edits post-production. I know that's a bit different from what you do, Sharon, with PR, but for us, we can control and make changes. You see something you don't like, we'll just change it. Sharon: How important is money? You emphasize that in your own marketing. There's always a debate with personal injury firms. Do people care about warm fuzzies, or do they care about your wins? What do you look at? Chris:   That's a deep question. I'm a big fan of Naval Ravikant, and he talks about— Sharon: I'm sorry, who? Chris: Naval Ravikant. He talks about people's motivations based upon status or wealth. Status is a zero-sum game; there's a winner and a loser. A lot of attorneys love trial because there's a winner and a loser. Sports is a zero-sum game. So, there's status orientation. Then there's wealth. Wealth is not a zero-sum game. Many individuals can be wealthy. So, it depends on their demeanor. I think some of them are more status-oriented and want to be the heavy-hitting trial attorneys and peacock and be the man, but then there are others that don't care. They'll let the other individuals shine and they're more wealth oriented. You see this a lot in society. Individuals will choose to go against common things, but they're doing it because it's a status play. It brings them status to be against the big billionaires or whoever. That's a whole different conversation we'll probably want to avoid, but that's the way I see it. Sharon: Do you basically stick with the marketing they have? If they call you in to do SEO and you look at their website and messaging, do you stick with that or do you recommend a change? Chris: We absolutely will make recommendations if we see an opportunity to help them. Ultimately, if they're signing more cases, it helps us; we have more opportunities to do different SEO for different locations, for retention, for security. Individuals that are living and dying by each lead are the ones that are emailing you every single day, “Where are my leads? Where are my leads?” We just try to do the best. If we think we have excellent rankings, and maybe they don't have the correct copywriting or positioning conversion points, we'll absolutely make recommendations for branding or anything that can help them. Sharon: Have you ever let a client go because they were too anxious or they wouldn't listen to you, or you thought, “This is not going to work”? Chris: Yeah, I wouldn't say very frequently, but absolutely. We've done it a couple of times this year under different circumstances. At the end of the day, your team has to feel welcome and hungry and motivated to work on your client. I want to have a culture where people enjoy their work. Sometimes we've had individuals that weren't respectful or the best from the culture perspective. Look, at the end of the day, it's not worth it. I know our employees really appreciate that we have their back when those situations occur. When you take care of your employees, they're going to take care of your clients. Sharon: Another question, one that's important to me. I'm not sure I understand it, but how can you work with a client in more than one market? Can you only work with one law firm that wants auto cases in Philadelphia? If client B comes and says, “I want auto cases in Philadelphia,” can you do that? What do you do? Chris: That's a great question that has been debated on and on in the SEO community. What I'll tell you is that radio and TV own the distribution rights. They already own the distribution. For SEO, it's determined based upon proximity. I'll give you an example, and then I'm going to circle this around. If you go on vacation to St. Louis and you type “best restaurants near me” in your phone, you're going to see restaurants nearest your proximity. You're not going to see them 10 miles away or 20 miles away. In some situations, if you have a big market, let's say Houston, you could, in theory, have multiple clients in Houston. You could have one downtown, one in the northeast, and there will not be a true conflict because of the proximity factor. Having said that, I personally have given up on trying to educate our clients on this because, at the end of the day, it's what they feel. So, we only take one per market now. In the past, I was very resistant to it because of the proximity. We've done our own data studies, but the SEO industry itself, it's perceived as a snake oil salesman. Any time I would try to educate about proximity, it's like they have earmuffs, and they're like, “Oh, another snake oil salesman.” So, I've basically given up. It's what they want; it's their perception, so we just take one per market. Sharon: Let me make sure I understand. Are you saying you think it could be done, but your client doesn't want that? Chris: Yes, that was what I was circling around to. Because the Map Pack, which is the best virtual real estate we talk about, after about one mile, your rankings start to deplete based upon your physical location. One of the biggest things I see attorneys do wrong is they'll have an office in Orlando or Houston, and they'll think about going to an entirely different city. They don't understand there's a big portion of their market that's not covered just because of the location where their office is. It may be better to actually open a second office in the same city than to go to an entirely new city based upon proximity. Sharon: Physical offices may not be the same today as it was a few years ago, but the law firms that advertise will advertise 20 different locations. What location do you use? The main location? Chris: First, I'll say all attorney listings are supposed to follow Google's guidelines. Google's guidelines state that the office has to have staff during your regularly stated hours. That's the big one that most don't do. It has to have signage. It has to be an actual brick-and-mortar with an office space. It can't be a shared office. You'll see a lot of fake satellite offices. Technically, they're violating Google's guidelines. So, when we say they should expand, we tell them to follow the book. Get a lease. Make sure it's staffed. Have proof of that. Have signage. Have business cards so if there's any question, here's the proof. That's the way to do it by the book. There are many firms that do not do it by the book, but again, we can educate them as to the best ways to do things. Then it's their choice on how they proceed. Sharon: I can see them saying, “That's nice, Chris. O.K., thanks.” There are people listening today who are going to get off the phone and go look at their website and say, “What am I doing right? What am I doing wrong?” What are the things they should look at right away, the top three things to evaluate whether this is going to work for SEO? Chris: I would say read your content first. Does the content answer consumer intent? Do you think it would answer your customer's pains? Is it well-written? Is it formatted well? Can they find the information they're looking for? That's where I would start. Looking at things like links, you need to use diagnostic tools. You need third-party assistance or someone that really understands that. So, I would pay close attention to your website, to your content. Read it and make sure everything's covered thoroughly. That's where I would start. Sharon: Can you set SEO and then leave it for a few months? If you get things up and running, can you just— Chris: In major metros, typically, you cannot. In most of the major metros, all SEO agencies are an in-house team that is constantly foot on the pedal, doing more content, more links, more Google reviews, or eventually you'll lose market share. In smaller markets, you may be able to create a big enough gap where you don't have to touch it as frequently. Maybe there are only a few firms. You can get a big runway ahead of them. But in most markets, it's a constant game. It's not set and forget it. Sharon: Do people ask you, “Should I add YouTube?” or “Should I link my YouTube? Should I link my podcast or blog?” I know you have a blog. Should those all be linked, and does that help? Chris: Yes and no. I'm trying not to get too confusing for the audience. In general, I would tell the audience to create a link if it can serve the consumer, if you're trying to transition or build brand awareness. I know you're aware of this, Sharon, because of what you do for PR. A lot of times, the links are not followed, and they won't contribute or pass equity. A lot of press release sites, a lot of media news sites, don't pass authority back to your site. Is it still a good reason to include a link? Yes, because you could transition a consumer to your website. It could still convert. Is it going to help SEO? Maybe. The traffic might help, but will the link pass authority? Maybe not. Should you link your social assets and directories and things like this? Absolutely. Are they going help improve your rankings? Maybe. Maybe they will; maybe they won't. Sharon: Is your team constantly Googling your clients? Is it constantly evaluating them? When you say diagnostics, what are you looking for? Are they doing Google Analytics? I don't know exactly what it is. Chris: Yeah, we do. We have several tools that track rankings. Rankings are one of those leading indicators. Just because you have great rankings doesn't mean it's going to generate cases. It's more predictive. So, we look at leading indicators. There's one we look at as an agency. I'm not aware of another agency that does. It's referred to as Ahrefs traffic value, and basically this number shows the amount of money you'd have to spend on pay-per-click to get the same amount for organic. We measure that on a weekly basis. If we see it increase, great. Our rankings and visibility are improving. If we see a decrease, them something happened. It allows us to take action more quickly on a weekly basis than by looking at your Google Analytics traffic or goals and conversions on a monthly basis, which is more a lagging indicator. We look at a lot of KPIs. We look at leading end lagging. Sharon: You mentioned pay-per-click and social before. You don't do social. Do you do pay-per-click? Do you incorporate that, or is that totally separate? Chris: That would be a situation where we have a few strategic partners we can highly recommend. We work very well with them from a communications standpoint. We feel we're the best in the world of SEO. We try to find the best in the world of pay-per-click and these other services and let our clients work with those individuals. Sharon: That's interesting to me, because I always think of pay-per-click as part of SEO in a sense. There are so many perspectives on SEO. Should you focus on this? Should you focus on linking everything? Should you focus on YouTube? That's why it's always changing. What are your thoughts about something like that? Chris: Again, I'm a big omnichannel person, so I think there are a lot of different places where individuals congregate and hang out. They could hang out on Facebook; now that audience is depleted, so let's go to Instagram. Now that audience is depleted and it's going to TikTok or YouTube. I think you need to do it all. The difference between pay-per-click and SEO in my eyes is with pay-per-click, you're leasing visibility. The moment you quit bidding, you're gone. It's great. You can get that visibility immediately. With SEO, you're creating a library so people can pull these books from the shelves when they have a certain query. The more content and queries and keywords you target, the bigger your library is, the more opportunities there are for consumers to find you. I look at it more as an asset as opposed to a leasing situation or a liability perspective. That's the way I look at it for SEO. It just gets better with time. Still today, even though there are all these different mediums, it's still one of the best costs per conversion, costs per acquisition. With pay-per-click, the amount per click has exponentially increased. Now, we're looking at $300, $600 per click. Facebook ads have gotten more expensive, and you're not seeing yourself on the organic feed as much as you used to. It's more pay to play, but we still see a lot of value in SEO. Sharon: I would think it would be foundational in the long term. No matter what else is coming, you are still going to need that. Do you work with your clients on the intake process? What if you're generating these leads and they're blowing it when somebody calls? Chris: We secret shop them. We secret shop our clients. We listen to calls. There's nothing worse than when we generate leads and the phone's not answered or calls aren't returned. It's our job to overwhelm the sales department. The moment we get any insights to where sales could be improved, we make those recommendations because it impacts us. We can generate a thousand leads, but if they're not getting assigned, we're going to get fired because they're not making money. Sharon: How are you tracking that? Do you work with people inside for that to work? Chris: Yes. There are certain CRMs we recommend. There are a few consultants we recommend. There are even outsourced intake services we recommend for all those scenarios. It depends based upon the type of firm. There are some firms that are settlement firms, so they don't do a lot of litigation. They're really high-volume. Then there are litigating firms, where maybe their case criteria are super high and they don't do volume. The way you staff those sales teams is different, so it depends based upon our recommendations. Sharon: Going to back to what you were saying before about working only with personal injury firms, I would think they're not scared off by big marketing budgets or the big numbers you might be throwing around. When you read the Wall Street Journal, they're spending millions of dollars on stuff like this. I don't know if you find that. Chris: They're not afraid to spend money; I'll say that. It is definitely increasing in most major markets. You're not going to do TV in most markets for less than $50,000 a month. Pay-per-click, you're not doing that for less than $10,000 typically. There's big money in personal injury because there's a lot of opportunity. There are a lot of different insurances and big insurance companies. It's a behemoth that takes advantage of a lot of consumers, so they definitely invest a lot. Sharon: Chris, I really appreciate your being here today because this is, to me, foundational. It's not going away no matter what comes. Thank you so much for sharing all your expertise with us. If things ever change with SEO, we'll have you back. Thank you so much. Chris: Awesome. Sharon, thanks so much for having me.

We talk to Wicked's own Elphaba, Jackie Burns!FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):0 (2s):Hello? Hello. Hello survivors. How I've missed you. I've missed talking to you boss. And I took quite a number of weeks off. Well, I did. She, she actually continued to record for at least one week while I was gone. And she's got a great interview. We've got a great interview coming up. She talked to Jackie burns, little Jackie burns on Broadway, wicked playing Elphaba. No big deal. Actually. She has a big deal and she's great. And so were all of you. I am heartened because even though we've taken all this time off, we've continued to grow our listenership.0 (47s):So thank you to you for listening, for continuing to listen for being a first-time listener. If you are thank you for being here, it's a privilege actually, to be able to have a platform to speak one's mind is truly a privilege. And one, I hope we do right by. We're going to be right back into the swing of things with interviews, regular weekly interviews in the fall. So stay tuned for that. And in the meantime, please enjoy this interview with Jackie burns and I'm Gina Kalichi3 (1m 34s):To theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.0 (1m 38s):20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.3 (1m 43s):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?2 (1m 56s):Here's the thing. Jackie burns. Congratulations. You survived theater school and you also survived this hellish trying to get you on. So squad quest squad cast, which we usually use is totally wonky this morning. And I was like, no, I, because I'm obsessed with you because I'd been researching you. I'm not a musical theater person, but I am one of these musical theater lovers that has so much reverie. And I think it is a sacred thing to sing and I don't really do it. And so I'm obsessed and you and I have the same birthday, October 4, 10, 4, buddy, ten four. So You're a little younger than me, five years, but that's okay.2 (2m 41s):I'm still, I'm super obsessed. And I also like I, when I watch, so I'm known for like going to high schools and middle schools and watching musical theater of people I'd have no connection to in what I was at when I was in Chicago, because I adore the art form and I don't do it, but I'm obsessed. So anyway, start, start from the beginning. You grew up in Connecticut. How, and then obviously you're a Broadway star. Are you back working in on Broadway? What's happening with you right now?5 (3m 13s):Oh my God. What is happening?2 (3m 15s):Yeah. I looked at your, I looked at all your profiles, but I want to hear it from you. Where are you post sort of pandemic. What is happening with your career? Tell us,5 (3m 27s):Oh God. Well like every musical theater theater,2 (3m 31s):Just say star, just say star, you are a star. You're a musical theater star. Like I understand for someone like I write for TV and I act sometimes, but like I musical theater people when I see them on stage, I'm like, I, the, the, the amount of brilliance it takes and dedication to, I have trouble on set, just moving my body and say, and you sing and move and dance and all the things. Okay. Okay. So what's happening with your career?5 (4m 2s):Oh my God. Well, first of all, Jen, I'm obsessed with you because I wish the rest of the world felt the same way about musical theater people because all of I'm most TV and film people are like, oh, you're not a real actor because you,2 (4m 13s):No, I would love to cast, listen, listen, what I mean? I would love to catch you and all your cohort when I do, because here's the thing. The body spatial awareness of musical theater folks, to know where they are in space translates onto set. So everyone listening, the 10,000 people that have downloaded this podcast that will continue to hire musical theater folks on television and film because they know bodies and bodies. It's not just a head people. So anyway, okay, go ahead. Sorry. I keep interrupting. I'm just like,5 (4m 46s):Nope. I love you. You're like making me feel so good about myself. But as every theater person, all we want to do is get on TV and film.2 (4m 55s):Oh, right. It's that's holds true for musical theater folks too. I assume that's where the dough is. Is that5 (5m 1s):That's where that money is. Because if you think about it, like once the theater show closes, we don't get a back end of it. So like, that's it. Your paycheck's done.2 (5m 9s):There's no residuals.5 (5m 10s):There's no residual.2 (5m 12s):Yeah. Okay. So, okay. So tell me what is happening now? You said you got your insurance back, which is5 (5m 17s):Paula that's hope. It's always helpful. I just did a new musical called a walk on the moon. That was based off the movie. No,2 (5m 27s):No,5 (5m 29s):No. I'll walk in the cloud. Like very similar. No,2 (5m 33s):She's dope. I like to5 (5m 34s):Have her with like Viggo, Mortensen, Schreiber. And when it was like back in the day, it's a good movie. Tony, Tony Goldwyn, like directed it and stuff. And he actually came and saw the musical. Did2 (5m 47s):He give you a compliment?5 (5m 49s):Yes, he was very nice. It was also like super handsome. You're like, hi,2 (5m 52s):I have heard. Yes.5 (5m 54s):You're just like, hello? Oh, you're married Ella and there's no, no, no, no, no. And my boyfriend's gonna listen to be like,2 (6m 6s):No, no, no. That's okay. That's okay.5 (6m 8s):No, he knows. He knows that I'm just joking. I'm just stroking on there. No. And then Pam gray wrote it. Who wrote the, who wrote the script as well? Yeah. And it's really good. And we just closed and they're hoping to bring it to Broadway. So fingers crossed. But the problem is, is that Broadway because it was closed for two years. All these shows have been trying to get theater. So that were like low man on the total whole cause it's like two years worth of shows trying to get to Broadway.2 (6m 37s):Correct.5 (6m 37s):So it's, and we're just like a little show rather than like a big show, so2 (6m 43s):Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But still worked. You have worked post pandemic, which is a huge thing. Okay. So tell me, were you a kid? Who did you grow up? You grew up in Connecticut. I'm assuming, were you a kid? Like you were five and you were like, just ho like you knew you could sing or what, how did that go? How does that, how do you discover that you can freaking sing?5 (7m 6s):You're so cute. I'm going to like put your pocket. Your energy is like seven. I'm going to be a best friend now.2 (7m 13s):And we'll together. We'll try to, we'll try to have a television show. That's like, I know they did it kind of with glee, but like Glebe, like less sassy and more earnest.5 (7m 23s):Yes. I am interested Jen, get2 (7m 26s):And throwing some murders because I, I write a lot of murder. Yeah.5 (7m 29s):Oh, I love that. That's what2 (7m 31s):Musical murders. Great. Okay. So you, you were a kid and how did this happen? That you were like, dude, I can be on stage and sing.5 (7m 38s):I just like always was obsessed with it. Like, so I started dancing when I was three and then, but like I used to get on like the little like Hutch, you know, like the fireplace such as my stage and sing, sing to like Michael Jackson's thriller. And I just like, yeah. And I used to, when I used to go to dance, like as I got older, we drove like 45 minutes. My mom drove me very sweet to dance class. And I used to sing along with the radio and I was convinced that the DJ could hear me. And it was just like a matter of time before I got recording contract.2 (8m 9s):Listen, here's the thing about that is that yeah. Some people might think it's wacky, but what I think is that bill that shows that somewhere, you envisioned a world where people were listening to you and were going to pay you. And that it was going to be like, even though it was just a fantasy in a car, what it shows is that you had like a sort of an expansive mind as a kid, as a lot of, not every kid is doing, most kids are like, oh, I sound terrible. And I'm never going to make it out of this Podunk town. Like that's, that's where I was at. So you, you were you're on. Okay. And then, so the dancing and singing, and then what about the acting part? Like, cause you could have just been a singer and a dancer.5 (8m 47s):Totally. You know what this is going to be, I'm going to throw so much shade and2 (8m 52s):You5 (8m 52s):Can do it2 (8m 53s):Any way. You want shade, half shade, full shade, whatever you need.5 (8m 57s):I'm going to give full shade just because I think it's funny. But when I went to my dance school, brought us to New York the first time, even though I lived in Connecticut, which is super close to New York, like I live two hours from the city. We never went to the city. So I went to the city for my first time when I was like, I was 15 years old and we went and saw Greece with like Broadway. That was my first Broadway show that I ever saw. And it was with like, kind of was like Brooke shields, like Rosie O'Donnell like crazy. But I, I was kind of not impressed. I was like, wait, I could do this. Like I, you know, I coveted Broadway is like so big. So like that, that I, I realized I was like, everyone sounded really great and who was dancing really great.5 (9m 41s):But I was not impressed with the acting at that point. For some reason, I just kind of was like, oh, it felt very pantomimed me2 (9m 49s):Like presentational.5 (9m 50s):Yes. Yeah. Yes. Which sometimes it's like, and that's when I moved to LA, I lived in LA for like a hot second cause I did wicked in LA and then I met my managers at T grin, I think. Yes.2 (10m 2s):Yes. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. Tikrit is amazing. Yes.5 (10m 5s):Yeah. He's amazing. And they were like, come move to LA and like, let's get you on TV and film. And then I moved there and then the pandemic happened and I was like, well2 (10m 12s):It was right then. Oh shit.5 (10m 14s):Yeah. I was there for like six months and it was great and it was fun. And like, but the thing that I realized is like, when I first got there and I started got into acting classes there, they were like, yo, you're a musical theater. So you only like color with like two of the crayons in your coloring box rather than all of them. Because you know, it's so far back. So you just have to like, you know, play to the back of the house and it's true. So many times you go see a show and it's like so broad and present presentation. It doesn't like bring, bring truthful. So that's2 (10m 43s):I think, no, I have to say it's like, I wish LA and I'm not, I I'm sure you went to amazing classes, but I wish so. I teach at the theater school at DePaul over zoom now that's where we went. Okay. So I teach there. And so the thing is, I wish we had a better language for saying that to people. So what, for me it is, is not, when I see musical theater actors on all it is, it's not so much for me that they have two colors. What it is is that they were exceptionally built for the, the thing they were doing. Right. And now they're doing something else. So you say like, okay, look, the dope thing about you is we know all that's in there.2 (11m 25s):It's just a matter of, of like super tweaking it and making it niche, niche nuanced. And it's a total teachable skill, which I'm sure they told you to like to oh yeah. Just is like, but the good news is I think I would, you know, I would more say you have all the colors, all the people that do musical theater have all the colors in there, or you wouldn't be able to go broad. And it's just a matter of pivoting to being a more like lasered focused situation. So anyway, all the musical theater people out there, I know we all have many all the colors, but it's true that there was also like in the arts and the late nineties where theater was Uber presentational, like, like, oh my gosh.2 (12m 8s):So you saw that and you were like, okay, I want to act, I could do this. And so then what did you do? Start taking classes or what happened as a kid?5 (12m 16s):So then that's, well, that's what I, I'm a year early from my grade. So I was going into college that next year. You know what I mean? So I just decided to just go to school for straight acting, just for acting rather than musical theater. Cause I felt like if you can sing, you can sing. Obviously you can always get better and stuff like that. But I was like, I really wanted to make sure that cause everything is from a storytelling place. Right. You know what I mean? It's like, so if, if you're a BA, if you know, so anyways, so that's why I went to2 (12m 41s):Wait a minute. So here's the thing about singing? Like, okay. So when you, how do you know like your small and you're doing like, you're standing on the hearth of your fireplace and doing your thing, but like how does one know like, oh shit, I can do this because here's my thing. Like I never tried because my sister was the singer in the family. So I just assumed that that was like, every family gets one and that was her thing later in life, look, I took classes and I'm, but I'm not like a, a hearth singer like yourself. Right. So, but how do you know, do people say to you I'm serious? Do people say to you, oh my gosh, Jackie, when you're young, do you remember people saying like, you can really fucking sing?2 (13m 24s):Not maybe not with the fucking, you know what I mean?5 (13m 26s):No, they said, yeah. They said, Jackie, you can fucking sing. And I was like six and I was like, oh my God, thank you so much. You know, what's so funny is that this now everyone's going to really know our age. When I was, when I was in elementary school, my mom made me do the, what is it called? The talent show. And I sang Peter pans. I won't grow up. She made me like various.2 (13m 56s):I love that. I'm glad she, but I also glad because that could lend itself to comedy. So that's good.5 (14m 2s):Oh. And she gave me all the like, like, like I won't grow up. I had, and she had like a thing like, oh, I don't want to wear a tie. Like she, like, all the parents made a big deal out of me and they wanted to throw a bake sale to send me to star search. It was hilarious. But then all the little girls that I was friends with all hated me after.2 (14m 23s):Well, see here's well, that5 (14m 25s):Was,2 (14m 25s):That happens. I'll I'll all the time, so. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Did you go to star search first of all?5 (14m 32s):No. No. I was too busy, crying every day because I had no friends and wanting to like be homeschooled.2 (14m 37s):So yeah. Yeah. I hear you. I, I, here's the thing about that. It's like, I don't have kids and I'm never going to have kids that ship has sailed thankfully. And so I, it's interesting to think about kids and like, what is it? I wish what I wish. So what I wish never happens. And that's why I say, I wish, I wish that the kids had said, oh my gosh, Jackie, you can sing. Yes. You got attention. Teach us how to do it. Or maybe let's, let's collaborate together, but they're like six and nobody's going to fucking collaborate when they're six, maybe. But like, I wish it had been more collaborative because look, what if you had like put on a production together with the girls that, but instead they ostracize you a little bit.2 (15m 21s):So then did you keep your singing or were you like, fuck you, I'm going to sing anyway. How did that go?5 (15m 25s):Oh, and then, so then, so then I went to junior high and then I actually always said like that it was junior high and the chorus teacher made a big deal out of me. And I like won all these awards and like, got like, like whatever I got all these solos and stuff. And then the parents started complaining to the chorus teacher that why is this little girl getting all the solos and not our daughter's getting solos. So then,2 (15m 47s):Wow. So here's the thing like, look, look, look, I understand that we want things to be equal, but how about then, like if I ran in the world or even had a little part of it, this is what I would do, I would say all right. All right. All right. So Jackie can sing her ass off. She's amazing. But why don't we pivot and turn and also look at what makes little Emily and little Jane amazing. And, and, and, and bolster that instead of trying to damp in Jackie's flame, like, it just doesn't make any sense to me. So like, I have this new phrase in Hollywood and people probably hate me. And when I go to meetings, I'm like, look, we have to collaborate or die.2 (16m 27s):Like that's where we're at agree. Right? Like adapt and collaborate or get the fuck out of the way. And people are like, oh, this crazy bitch. But here's the thing. The collaboration is going to be the only thing that saves us on our planet and in many ways. So wouldn't, it have been great. If they had said I should have my own POS podcast, that's just called wouldn't it have been great because I, I, I feel like I say that so much to people like, wouldn't it have been great if they, the parents had said, oh my God, like, Jackie's dope. But if Jackie can do it, that maybe means like my Susie can tap, dance her ass off or make pottery like a motherfucker. So like, let's focus on those things rather than dampening Jackie's, you know, it's so it's so such, such terrible behavior, but okay.2 (17m 10s):So junior high also, did you, were you like, oh shit. I can sing. And I'm amazing, but these people hate my guts or how did it?5 (17m 17s):Yeah. Yes. And then the caveat is when I went to high school, the junior high teacher told the high school teacher that I was like very special. And like, they should, she should put me in like senior prior. And then that teacher hated me and told me I was flat and told me, I sucked every day to the point I stopped singing. I just,2 (17m 37s):You know what that reminds me of wait, was it, was it a lady teacher? Okay. It reminds me of glee when it's a Dina and, and what's her name and you know, the one people like to talk shit about, I don't know her. Leah, Leah, Leah.5 (17m 55s):Yeah.2 (17m 55s):So they, that exact thing happens. And it's just, it's just, and maybe that's what happened. Maybe it's jealousy. Maybe it's maybe it's like, how dare someone be special? I never got to do the thing or whatever it is. It's not your, you were a kid. It was not your PR, even in high school, your problem to figure that out. So you stopped singing what? That now there's the real travesty, right?5 (18m 16s):Yeah. So then I stopped singing in choir. I would just like lip sync and she would still be like, oh, I hear is Jackie all layers, Jackie sound. It was horrible. Miss Hilton. I'll tell you to say it anyway. She was horrible to me. And then for college, you had to write, she, you had to get a letter of recommendation. And she told me she had nothing nice to say about me and she wouldn't write it. So then the guidance counselor, I had to write it for me. It was so that I could audition for schools.2 (18m 43s):Okay. That lady, that lady is whore. That's a horrible thing.5 (18m 47s):Yeah. I know. And then my brother, this is so funny. My brother, Kevin, my brother is seven years younger than me. And so when he went to high school, he had her too. And the first day of school went through and was like, Joey burns any relationship to Jackie burns. And he was like, yeah, that's my sister. And he was, she was like, yeah, she's still trying to make it on Broadway. And he was like, oh yeah, she's on Broadway in hair actually. And it shut her right up. And then all of a sudden she was like, oh, I've always knew she was going to make it. I was like,2 (19m 16s):Okay, here's the thing like, that is a sad, sad, human being. Like, if you are a teacher of youngsters and you cannot foster them in any way, then, then you, that is not the right fit for you. My friends. And also I I'm, well, it's, it's no shocker. I was a former, I'm a former therapist for, for people when they got up, I got out of prison. So like, all my bent is like on a psychological lens, but like a trauma lens, usually with this stuff. But it's like lady, I understand Ms. Whatever. Hilman, what's her name?5 (19m 50s):Hilton2 (19m 50s):Hilton. Ms. Hilton Paris Hilton. I understand if it was somehow related, I understand that you've got trauma that you haven't worked on, whatever, but that is not the children, the high high-schoolers responsibility, my friend, that is your responsibility. Just like it's my responsibility. And Jackie's responsibility to work on the shit that happened to us. So anyway, oh my God. Well, thank gosh for guidance counselors. I would have been like the guidance counselor. I would have been like,5 (20m 16s):She was the best. Yeah.2 (20m 18s):Ms. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Ms. Fitzgerald. Okay. So then you go to connect. You went to school in Connecticut, right?5 (20m 23s):Yeah. So then my parents were like, and then I, so I graduated when I was 17, so I, and I, because we're October. Yeah. And so what was the youngest class to get our drivers?2 (20m 35s):Yes, but like the best in terms of like, I got to college, I was 17. I was like, Hey, I'm young. And I'm got,5 (20m 41s):Say that same, same, but my so, but I didn't want to go to college. I was like, I'm just gonna move to New York and be a star. And my parents were like, yeah, you're 17. So no, you're not. And I was like, oh, okay. So I didn't put a lot of effort into looking into school. So I only audition for three schools, NYU boss' conservatory and Yukon. My parents were like, you should audition for the state school. Just, you know, whatever. Yeah.2 (21m 2s):It's also cheapest, cheaper, much cheaper. Right.5 (21m 5s):So, yeah. That's what, and that's what my parents said. They were like, listen, you can graduate. They're like, this is how much money we can afford. The rest is going to be loans and on you. They're like, so you're not graduating. And being a doctor like in going into like maybe a work, maybe what we think you'll work. My parents were always very supportive of me.2 (21m 22s):That's awesome.5 (21m 23s):So great. Yeah. They were never, they were, they weren't like, you need a backup plan. They were like, yeah, we think you'll make it. But they were like, you don't go. Right. So like, you know, they're like, you can graduate with a shit ton of debt or you can graduate basically debt free. And I chose to go to school debt free. I was like2 (21m 41s):So smart because let me tell you something. When the sheriff comes to your house, because you don't pay off your grad school loans, Jen Bosworth, Ramirez over here and says, you took out a private loan for your grad school in counseling psych, and you never paid it back. And so now we're here to collect. Literally the sheriff came to my house. I thought to myself, this was a poor choice that I, I did not need to take out this loan that I apparently, I mean, look, fit shit, happens for a reason. But what I'm saying is when I hear these stories, that people that chose to be debt free instead of go to Juilliard and take out $7,700,000 in debt or whatever, or in loans, I'm like, yes, because especially in this career, even if you are brilliant, and even if you are magical and are a star, you it's still, the paycheck is the paycheck right.2 (22m 29s):On Broadway. So, so good for you. Okay. So you up, well, how was your college experience, Jackie? Like, how would you say that was5 (22m 36s):Again also hilarious and the fact that, because I sang and I went to school for just straight acting, they all made fun of me for like sitting. They were like, oh, you want to do musical? That's not real acting. And I always left with laugh and be like, I'm going to actually work. So, you know,2 (22m 53s):Oh, people or any. Okay. So when I was on crew, I was on crew at DePaul theater school and we would do one musical a year, which I was never casting, but5 (23m 4s):Same thing we did one musical a year,2 (23m 6s):I guess. Were you the, I hope you were the fucking star everyone.5 (23m 9s):No. Sometimes no, because the grad actors would be the stars.2 (23m 14s):Oh my God. I bet they're kicking themselves. But anyway, okay. So I was crew and I was on makeup and I think Gina was too. And anyway, w I was on crew and I would literally, and it was into the woods, which is my favorite. And I would sit on the edge of the stage and Rapunzel, this woman, Jen, who was a Rapunzel and reposal, I would watch. And I would be like, oh my gosh. And Brockie, I think it was Brockie who did last midnight. And I just was be like, this is magic. So anyway, okay. So that was like me. And I would like miss my, my job because I would be listening and watching these musical theater people, I just would love, they were, I was like in love.2 (23m 54s):So anyway. Okay. So when you, you wouldn't be the star at Yukon5 (23m 58s):Sometimes, sometimes that like you, like, yeah. Towards the end, I started getting some starring work roles, which was great.2 (24m 4s):What was your favorite role at Yukon?5 (24m 11s):You know what I think it's, I think it was my favorite role. Cause I would never get cast in the real world was Joanna and Sweeney. Todd, because putting me in a bland blonde wig is it's a very unfortunate level. Oh, it's not good.2 (24m 24s):Okay. Okay. So you, Joanna is sweet. Sweet has a rough one.5 (24m 28s):Yeah. And also we love murder, but so like I'm not your quintessential ingenue and you know what I mean? Like, I don't have an ingenue look, you know,2 (24m 38s):You have more of like a fierce, like a fierce, like a warrior villain look.5 (24m 42s):Yeah. I'm a, I'm a Maleficent. I'm not an Elsa. You know what I mean? Like that's2 (24m 48s):Is what it is. It is what it is. I5 (24m 50s):Love it. Yeah.2 (24m 51s):I'm the crazy neighbor. I'm the crazy lady. I love it. I'll take it.5 (24m 56s):Yeah. Save. So it's like, I would never play that in the real world. So I loved that because it was a chance for me. Cause I never get to the icing can sing soprano. Nobody knows that like really well, like I actually prefer seas, but I don't ever sing soprano because,2 (25m 10s):Oh, I didn't understand that. Of course like the way the, the, the, the, the part is written. Yeah. The ingenue is probably our Sopranos.5 (25m 20s):Yeah. This is their soprano. And they're like the little blonde next door.2 (25m 23s):And the earthier grounded tone is more of the villainous to, or like the serious business tone. Okay. Very cool. Very cool. Okay. So also sweetened, I didn't know when I saw it, when I was younger, that what it was about and I saw it and I was like, what the fuck is going out? These meat pies, this is cannibalism. And it was crazy. Yeah. I love it now. Cause I write about that stuff, but like, I was like, why is this, why are they, why is he's cutting his throat? What's happening here. So anyway, I thought it was going to be like wizard of Oz. No, no, like, yeah. I didn't know. So. Okay. So you graduate and then are you like, fuck it, I'm moving to New York right away. Like how did this go?5 (26m 2s):Yeah. And then I moved out into New York to New York, with my best friend from college. We got randomly put together. She was not an actor. I didn't really hang out with any of the acting people. I like hung out with all normal people.2 (26m 13s):That's much better choice.5 (26m 16s):Yeah. And so, and even though going to school for straight acting, I wasn't around music, musical theater, people are a different energy, especially, it's a lot of, you know,2 (26m 26s):And he, you know, it's a lot, but it's also, I got to say like, it's a lot. And as I get older, I really appreciate it more because it's a way of sort of owning your space. But like when you were in high school and college and you sit in a restaurant next to a table of musical theater people, you're like, oh God, may I may lose it. So, yeah. Okay. So you graduate and you and your roommate from Yukon move into Manhattan or what, where do you go to5 (26m 50s):Yeah, we move it. Yeah. We, we lived together for 11 years actually. Yeah. Like we were like common law until I moved in with my ex-husband at the time. Like yeah. Like,2 (26m 60s):Yeah. Okay. And so what happens? You get an agent. How does this work for you? Jacqueline?5 (27m 4s):Yeah. It's so funny. So, well, I, I have such a random way. So I moved and I went to one audition.2 (27m 11s):What was it? Four, four. I5 (27m 12s):Don't even remember. I just remember I was at Chelsea studio. I don't even think that they2 (27m 17s):Do physical theater.5 (27m 18s):It was musical theater. And that was another thing because they didn't go to musical theater school. I didn't have like a2 (27m 23s):Book,5 (27m 25s):Like, so like, you know, I went to this, it was like a cattle call audition with like, you know, as non-union 8 million girls in a room2 (27m 33s):Shit. And they all had books and shit. I don't, I didn't even know what a book was. Cause I, until like last year I was like, she's like, I gotta refresh my book. I was like, yeah, just get a book, any book? And she's like, no girl. No. So, okay. So you show up there and how does it go? Are you nervous? Are you like, no, I can fucking sing. Fuck you.5 (27m 50s):No, I, I, I was there and I was waiting and everybody was wearing like the same dresses. It was like straight up like Jason, Robert Brown, you know, from last five years. And everybody's like talking about what they've done and dah, dah, dah, and their book and what they're going to sing. And I just had a panic attack and I left. I was like, Nope, I'm going. And I didn't audition for like two years. I just like lived in the city and like waitressed and like hung out with my friends. You know what I mean? It just was like a ridiculous,2 (28m 15s):Yeah. Living your life, like living your life. Like, you know what? I, I respect that. Like I, I, okay. The one, oh my God. The one audition girl I had. Oh my gosh. So I had to go to the lyric opera of Chicago because they were, they were, they were supposedly hiring non singers for like, or like just singers, but non, non opera singers for this, this thing that this big New York person was coming in the Merry widow of, I don't know. Yeah. Okay. Fine. So my agent's like, you got, I'm like, you know, I don't sing. They're like, no, no. They're just looking for people that can carry a tune or like, and I'm like, okay. But you know, and she's like, no, just go it's for this non more of an acting funny part.2 (28m 59s):And I'm like, okay, dude, like just learn 12 bars. So I, I learned the Cinderella stepsister song from Rogers and Hammerstein. Like why would a one out of eight? It's like a, it's like the ridiculous. Okay. So I go and I go into the bowels of the opera, the, the lyric opera where there's no cell reception. So I can't like text anyone and be like, I'm fucking in the wrong place. What the fuck? All the women come in, Jackie and they start and I hear them warming up and they're seeing opera opera. And I'm like, okay, okay. So I go to the bathroom, no reception. I'm trying to call my agent. Like I can't do this. And I go out and they're like, Jen, you're up? And I walk in.2 (29m 40s):Yeah, I'd walk in. And I hand my music to the piano player and he, and it's all these people. I never been to a musical theater audition, let alone an opera situation. And the guy on the panel just starts and I blacked out. I don't know what happened, Jackie. I didn't, I, I, I don't know what happened. It was awful. And I, I, like, I like left my body and they walk out and I'm like, and I walk out on the corner in Chicago downtown, and it just opens up. It starts pouring on me and I start crying on the corner and I call my agent. I'm like, I don't think it went so well. And then I tell them, anyway, I have no recollection of the, the, the audition.2 (30m 24s):Like I blacked out. So listen, I understand. And I couldn't sing and you could sing. And you were like, I'm out. So, so, okay. So you left and you for two years, you were a waitress and you were, you were kicking it with your friends. And then how did you work your way? Back in5 (30m 40s):My best friend came in with a backstage. She didn't even really know what it was. And she was like, you have to go to this audition today. Or you can't like hang out tonight. And I was like, she was like, come on, you didn't come. You didn't move here to be a waitress. And I was2 (30m 52s):Like, what was it for5 (30m 54s):Tokyo Disney in Japan?2 (30m 56s):Oh,5 (30m 57s):It was hilarious. And that, and I booked it. And that was my first job.2 (30m 60s):You went to Tokyo and you were worked at Disney.5 (31m 2s):Yeah. It was so fun. And they had this Broadway review. So I did this broad, they had this Broadway review show where I sang like mama rose and Avita. And like, it was hilarious. It was so fun. Yeah. It was so fun.2 (31m 15s):Did you do that Jackie?5 (31m 17s):Because nine months.2 (31m 19s):Oh my gosh.5 (31m 20s):So we2 (31m 21s):Did that. You make good money.5 (31m 23s):Yeah. It was great money. And then, and then I met this guy climbing, Mount Fuji, this Australian guy, and like fell in love. And so then I called my best friend, Rachel, who is just like the coolest person. And I was like, let's go to Australia. I also didn't like New York when I moved there, like, and she was like, okay. So like, we moved to Australia for like a year and like hung out there. And then I w we got kicked out cause our visa ran out, you know? And then, so then we came back to New York and I still hated New York. And I was like, Ugh,2 (31m 51s):What is your waving? And wait a minute. What you hate about it? Like, what did you not like about New York when you moved there?5 (31m 57s):Non-green you talk about Connecticut and the green light. And I live literally in2 (32m 1s):The middle of the middle of that,5 (32m 2s):On the shoreline, in the middle of nowhere, live in like a lake. It's all like, you know, it's like beautiful. And I'm a very outdoorsy girl. So it was just like, it was so ugly, concrete. It was so dirty. And I just was like, I missed the outdoors, you know what I mean? I miss like green. And so I just, I didn't, I just didn't like it, you know, now I love the city, but like, I just, I did not, it took me a while, but then I came back and I was like, that still don't want to be here. So I auditioned for a cruise ship and I got this. So then I went on a cruise ship and I was supposed to be there for nine months. And then four months into the cruise ship. I was like, what am I doing with my life? Like, I don't want to be like singing to old people, sleeping in the audience. Like, you know what I mean? So2 (32m 42s):Listen, it's old people. And then me, I go to those and I'm on the cruise. And I go to the musical reviews and I am like weeping in the audience and share5 (32m 53s): yeah.2 (32m 58s):Yeah. People sleeping. Yeah. No, I was like the one person and I know they were all asleep or like, or like snoring or like maybe a coma and like I, or like dead. And I was like, oh my God, this is the best thing. But I usually was alone in that. Okay. So you got off the cruise ship for months and you were like, Nope.5 (33m 15s):Yeah. And it was hilarious. Cause they, the lady, because with the way the cruise ship worked, like if you just leave, then you have to pay out your contract, which I did not want to do. Cause you, you know, so I was like, yeah, I'm having, I was like, I'm having, I said I was having episodes of like wanting to jump, you know what I mean? Cause like not seeing land for so long is like, and it was hilarious. Cause the lady totally knew the director knew I was lying. Her name's Natalie. And she was like, Jackie, she was like, if, if you say this, you'll never work on a cruise ship again, like you'll never get to come. And I was like, I'm okay with that.2 (33m 48s):So you got off.5 (33m 51s):So then I got off and2 (33m 53s):It's like a, it's like a psychological discharge kind of a5 (33m 55s):Situation. They don't want you to jump.2 (33m 58s):No, no, they don't want that.5 (33m 60s):No. And so then I'm moved back to the city and I was like, all right, I'm gonna audition. And, and so at that point I auditioned for this smokey Joe's yeah, yeah. I'd done like five smoking joints and this vector. Yeah. This, it was like one of my favorites. This cast director was like, Steven dandle is so nice. He was like, I want to help me call me the, after my audition. He was like, I think you're super talented. I want to help you. I want to help you get an agent. And I was like, okay. I was just very lucky. And so that's how I got my first agent. And then I had an audition for hair in the park, in Shakespeare, in the park and books that, so that, and I remember calling my parents when I got that. And I was like, this is, this is like the chicken before the egg type of thing, you know?5 (34m 41s):It's like, it's like, we love you, but you've never done probably before. So we can't give you a better show. And you're like, but how do I get a Broadway show? Unless you give me a Broadway show, you know what I mean? I was like, this is a game changer. And I knew, and it was great. And that's like kind of then from there on like2 (34m 56s):Here, was that, what year was that? The hair in the park here in the park.5 (35m 1s):I want to say it was it 2007.2 (35m 4s):Okay. Okay. Amazing.5 (35m 8s):Yeah. And it was great. And then while I was doing that in the park, all the girls in my dressing room were going in for this new show called rock of ages and, and, and my agents were small at the time, so they couldn't get me. I couldn't get in. And I was like, what the F I'm so right for this show. And then finally at the end I got an audition and there was one roll left the stage swing for like the dancer tracks. And I, at that point hadn't danced since I was 17, had been like, you know, almost 10 years. And I can tell you, I blew that, see dance so bad. Like everyone was going that one way. And I was one of those where it's like, there's no way I'm getting this, but I booked it because the music director fought for me and was like, no, I really want her voice.5 (35m 50s):Like I really want her. And so thankfully2 (35m 53s):We talk a lot about on this podcast and I just talk a lot about it in my consulting and stuff with my clients. It's like, here's the thing. Like, and, and, and tell me your thoughts on this. Like my, my, you know, my new sort of vision for things is look, and the people have told me this and I never listened because I was a fucking idiot. But like, like we're booking the room, we're not booking the job. Right. We're booking the people like that. We're booking our champions. We're making fans of our work everywhere we go. And we just don't know who our champions are going to be. So you might as well, like, just really try to, what is it like you're booking the room, right?2 (36m 35s):Like we're. Yeah. So, so you had these champions early on, not that you didn't have the talent and the fucking work ethic too, but you had champions like the guy who called the casting man who called you and told you, I want to help you. And like, and, and, and then the, the musical director on rock of ages, that's amazing. And I think, and I'm trying to sort of figure out like, and what are your thoughts on Why people want to champion certain people? Is it because that, I guess it's a leading question. What I think is that people are decent humans and they want to champion other decent humans, not just the talented voice or the stunning person, but like the decency inside the human something comes through.2 (37m 23s):Do you think that's, that has any validity to it or am I crazy?5 (37m 27s):No, I do think like you onset or in a, in a, in rehearsal, you're with these people for so many hours, if the person is talented, but they suck as a human, like who wants to be suck on sets with 16 hours or in a rehearsal room for eight hours? You know what I mean? Like,2 (37m 44s):I feel like you are one of those. And I would say yes, because I'm talking to you and I'm good with, I know people, but like what, what do you think it is about you? Like, I'm always talking about this to famous people and to stars and to like, what do you think it is about you that people want to work with?5 (38m 4s):I'm very I'm game to do anything. Like I I've no ego.2 (38m 9s):You're curious. You're humble. You have fond. It sounds like you have fun. You like that?5 (38m 15s):Yes. I think my biggest fault, like is that I am humble to a fault. So therefore I think we tell people how to treat us. So sometimes my humility will come across as a lack of confidence. And that's the problem. Cause you know, it's like, it's a lot of money there. Producers are putting on your shoulders and the person that comes in with the confidence that like, Hey, I'm amazing.2 (38m 39s):Let me tell you something. I'm five years older than you. And I'm just getting it. So I now can walk into a room and first excuse my language, but now I can walk into a room and I can swing my Dick. Yeah. I know I have done the work. I have seen what's out there and I know what I have to contribute and I'm also not. But I spent, and if you listen to it all in the podcast, you know, both Gina and I, we spent our twenties and even my thirties going pick me, choose me, love me on some level. Even if I wasn't saying that it was coming out somehow in rooms. Right. So nobody wants that.2 (39m 20s):Right? Like nobody, that's not, it's not even something it's not even about attractiveness. It's like not even attractive in like a human way. Right? Like in a working relationship kind of way. So now I walk in and I'm like, it's not that. And I think also like, and people say this all the time, like people mistake, humbleness for weakness all the time, but there's also something in us that's projecting this sort of smallness. Even if we're not saying it until now, like it took me until 40, like whatever to say, oh fuck, no, I've seen what's out there. And I know I belong and it's not constant. So do you feel like you're coming into that?5 (40m 1s):Yeah. I think that, I feel like I had figured it out like two years before the pandemic. I really kind of, you know what it was for me. I stood by for Idina Menzel and this show called if then on Broadway. And it was the height of her career. It was when frozen came out and she was on the Oscars. And like everybody she's like, you know, everyone was obsessed with her. They were coming to see her specifically in the show. They weren't coming to see the show. They were coming to see her standing by for her people were viscerally angry when I was on, you know what I mean? Because you know, they came to see like, people have flown in from me. I had this British woman yell at me because like she had flown in from England and to see a Dina and I was on and I was like, I'm sorry, like it's not my fault.5 (40m 45s):You know what I mean? Like, you know, so, but that gave me the comp and I had to like win the audience over, like, you know what I mean?2 (40m 54s):So they don't throw things at you, right?5 (40m 56s):Yeah. Like you could feel the shift. There was a song called what the fuck? And like, I always knew. I'd like, that's like, when I would get the audience, that's your2 (41m 3s):Side5 (41m 3s):Where they'd be like, okay, like it's not a Deena. Like, she's2 (41m 6s):Awesome.5 (41m 7s):But this girl, like, it's not like a terrible name. Right. You know what I mean? Like,2 (41m 12s):But that help, we can't help. But like this lady.5 (41m 14s):Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like she's at least like, not bad. So that gave me the confidence. Like I had gotten to the place where I was like, ma I believed in myself because it had to, because nobody else did. Right. So I had to like, be like, okay. And that's, I was in a really good place. And the same thing, like when I moved to LA, like I was doing really well, like getting into like producer session callbacks for like service. Like you don't get like, great. And then the pandemic happened and I'm slowly getting my mojo back. Because like, after having that two years, almost three years of like living in this void, this vacuum of self-tapes where you don't know what's going on, you know, like there's no creativity.2 (41m 51s):Yes.5 (41m 52s):That I'm slowly being like, okay, I do know what I'm doing.2 (41m 57s):Can you tell Tega right. Yes. I see you. And maybe I'll listen to this, send it to them. I feel like if I were an Tikosyn, you'd be like, okay, crazy bitch. You don't know what you're doing, but listen, if I were marketing, you I'd be like, she is the next Rene Russo meets. And I haven't figured out the meats part, but Like, I always have a meats, you know? And it's going to be someone, a little weirder. You know what I mean? Like my cause I always skew weird. So when I, so like, you are like, I can see it, but oh, you're the next Rene Russo. But with a fucking voice, how about that? That's how I would pitch you pitch you with a fucking voice to make the gods weep.2 (42m 38s):That's how I would pitch not a manager, but you know, and I haven't actually heard you sing, although you sang a little bit in, I write in this tape, I can tell, you can tell like musical theater and like people could really sing, even when they're like joking around. It's like, wow, the rest of us are like, what the fuck was that? When I mess around, I'm like, man, you're like, oh, it was just like a little bit like, whoa, what the fuck? So anyway, the point is, you're brilliant. And I could totally, I could see you being like the next bad-ass Rene Russo type. Who's like, you know, in the Thomas crown affair, like that kind of thing. That's how I would T grim5 (43m 14s):T grin. Listen, I tell him, tell him,2 (43m 16s):Tell him. And he's gonna be like, oh, that crazy bitch. So, okay. The thing is now. So we have about 10 minutes left and I want to focus on like, what are your dreams? Like, where do you want to be? What do you want to do? Where do you want to go?5 (43m 31s):So many good questions. I mean, I want to originate. I really just want to be originating roles. Okay.2 (43m 37s):Okay. Tell me more about what that means. Like, I don't even, we don't talk like that in Hollywood. So what does that mean?5 (43m 42s):Well, like, cause you know, Broadway shows, there's like a lot of long running shows, but like originated wicked. So they wrote the show for her. You know what I mean?2 (43m 52s):Okay. So this is great to know because a lot of us don't know this. Okay. So they write for the people. She did not audition for that or she did5 (44m 2s):No, she, no, she auditioned, but then once she got it. Yeah. So it's like all of a sudden if like, oh, you know, like,2 (44m 10s):Okay, I am that's okay. I have a dog I'm at my office, but I have a crazy dog named Doris. Who's insane. So don't worry.5 (44m 18s):I have a puppy. And she's like, she's hit her like, oh yeah. I've been2 (44m 22s):Grab her.5 (44m 24s):Can you come over here please? No. Okay. So yeah like, like with, if then they like, you know, like they changed so many keys for her to like find what is good for her, you know what I know? So that way this is done, but so, you know, I want to originate. I want to be at a place where I'm not replacing, you know, I want to be originating. So that way2 (44m 51s):Originating roles on Broadway.5 (44m 54s):Yes. And I really want to get into TV and film. I like want to be doing2 (44m 57s):So. So yeah. And I don't think there's any reason why not. And it's starting to pick up again. So like I would just put it out there that I, if I were you, I would give I'm giving you totally unsolicited advice To LA for another try another six months out here. And I feel like it's different. What I feel in LA right now. And it's why I moved from Chicago is that there is an expansiveness in Los Angeles that look, it can be full of garbage, of course. But there is an expansiveness and the people I'm meeting are like, especially the younger folks are like creating massive amounts of art and content.2 (45m 40s):And even I'm seeing theater out here and it's amazing. And also film and TV. So all I would say is, I think we're in an age where I, it does feel like in LA a lot of things and people listening like old, old timers listening are probably like, oh, shut up. But like, I do feel like we are coming to the end of where it's oversaturated with content from streamers and people are like, no, no, no, we don't need more. What we need is like very specific shows and movies that are, I think we're good. We're contracting a little bit, which is not bad. So it's going to be more for me anyway, like gritty, heartfelt, smaller stories, which I fucking adore.2 (46m 23s):So all I'm saying is come to LA and we'll be friends. That's what I'm saying, Come to my office and we can hang out and do all the things. But anyway, okay. So you want to do film and TV? Like what kind of roles? Like if I said to you, okay, magic wand. Here you go. Jackie, what kind of roles are you? I know you're like, so game to play anything, but like where do you think you'd really shine in television and film?5 (46m 48s):I think I'd really, that's a good, such a good, really good question. I think I am more of a, like of a quirkier than most people think I am. Do you know what I mean? Like a lot of people, especially like when I straightened my hair and like, they're like, oh, you're like a sexy, like, you know, and I'm like, I'm really kind of goofy and quirky.2 (47m 9s):Yeah. You're like more of an ally McBeal than a like Gina Gershon. Bad-ass like that you have a more quirky quirkiness to it.5 (47m 18s):Yes. And because I looked the way I looked people, I was just thinking about baddest, but I have a softness about me that I can't get rid of. Like I did just, there just is I, and so I am like the funny, but like also I'm going to tell you the truth. Cause I do have like, but in a, not in a, like, I'm going to cut your throat kind of way.2 (47m 38s):It's not aggressive. It's yeah. It's more like Ernest than that. There is an earnest quality.5 (47m 45s):Yeah. So I'm that? I just think like, you know, the best friend that's going to keep it real, but also as kind of a shit show and like, yeah,2 (47m 51s):Yeah, yeah. It's reminds me of like, you could, you could play a lot of things, but like you could play the partner of someone on television who like, who like keeps their partner in line, but it's also funny and sassy, but like is the, is the true north to somebody right. And earnest true north that's totally.5 (48m 15s):Yeah. Yes.2 (48m 17s):I feel like I should have a podcast where people come on and I like help market them.5 (48m 21s):I would, yes. I think that people wouldn't2 (48m 24s):Malarious, I'd be like, you're a real kind of Mike Shannon meats, you know, I don't know, John C. Riley type with a side of Ben Affleck or something like that. But anyway. Yeah. So, okay. So you want to do that and then are you auditioning right now for, is there what's happening on Broadway? What's happening off Broadway that you, that are you excited about? Anything what's happening? That you're excited about? Nothing. Okay, great.5 (48m 50s):I sadly to say it's kind of been really dry. Like I haven't had much additions and it's been a little like brutal.2 (49m 0s):Okay. Good to know. I mean, I look, look, it's better to be honest because here's the thing, like if we, and it also comes across, you know, that like if people come on this podcast or like, I'm talking to someone even in a party and they're like, it's fabulous. I mean, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, I don't buy this because I just don't buy it. My bullshit meter goes off. So it's been brutal. And I have to say like, it's been a really brutal for me too, but like in a, in a, in a, across the board. And I think this is a time. I mean, we're, I'm, I'm a triple Libra. So I have sun moon rising, all Libra, which means that I'm just a bonkers, but it also means I, we, I feel that we are in a huge transition time and as systems, whether that's Broadway, Hollywood, the government, whatever you believe, whatever systems as they sort of start to falter and fall in some ways, which is scary.2 (49m 55s):Cause it's, you know, I don't know. I have my thoughts about capitalism, but like systems are failing a little bit just because of the pandemic because of life, the climate, all this stuff, those of us in positions too are called to really come stand up and say, what do I want? How can I help? How can I be of service? And what do I really want to create? So it's like a beautiful time for artists to say, look, it's brutal too, but like there's opportunity in the brutality of like, wait a minute, who do I want to collaborate with? How do I want to collaborate? What kind of art do I want to make?2 (50m 35s):And what am I willing to do to make a living? And what am I not? And mostly for me, it's been about like, who do I want to align with? Who do I want to make, have partnerships with? And that to me is more important actually than the tasks I'm doing. It's like if I go into a writer's room and the, and the showrunners are fantastic and the writers are like we're crew and a team it's like, that would be I, and I'm all, I'm like totally putting this out into the universe. So I haven't been there yet. So like, I'm pre, but like, I can imagine that that is like more important to me than the actual dialogue or writing. Do you know what I mean?5 (51m 15s):Yes. I2 (51m 16s):Will work on whatever show, if the people in charge and the team are dope as hell, it's sort of not as important, what the it's still important, but it's not like it's more for me anyway. It's more the team, right? It's the team and who gets me and who I get. And at the end of the day, am I willing to go to bat for these people? And are they willing to go to bat for me versus it's like, again, it goes back to like collaboration versus, you know, like pick me, choose me, love me. And so that's what I wish for you is like, is like you find your next team of people that are like your champions that you can champion.2 (51m 57s):And then I think the project will sort of work itself out. Do you know what I mean?5 (52m 1s):Yeah, totally.2 (52m 2s):So listen, casting, listen, listen, people, Jackie burns. Bad-ass not just musical theater star, but musical theater star. And yeah. So what else is happening? Anything else you need to say, like to your, to people listening that they must to know about you or where you are in your life in the world? Because this is like, we talk a lot about in this podcast about legacy. Like I don't have kids, so I don't know. So a lot of people can have their legacy through their children and I don't have that. And I have an asshole dog that doesn't give a shit about legacy and she's not gonna do anything for legacy. So I, my legacy is like this part of it is this podcast, which is going to be around forever until the aliens, you know, whatever.2 (52m 46s):And so, or whoever's taking over, what do you want, what do you have anything to say for posterity? That's like going to be immortalized forever on in the cloud?5 (52m 59s):I think for me, I am, it's all about like work ethic. I am such a, I never take for, I never take for granted. Like a lot of people will talk about, and it's not to say that I don't get tired and I don't get like, there aren't times where I'm like, oh God, this is brutal. But there, it never leaves me in the fact that like, anytime I get to do a show and I get stressed out about, I am definitely, I deal with my own issues with perfection. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like where, but it never leaves me that like, I am so lucky to get to do this. And I am so grateful for the audience. Like, it makes me want to cry. Like I like when people are like, oh, sometimes I go on autopilot where it's like, oh, it's the seventh show of the week. And it's like, but those people in that seven show or eights or a weekend spent so much money to come and see this show that I can't help, but give 180% every time I get out the gate because I am so appreciate.5 (53m 50s):Cause I know if they didn't come, we wouldn't have a job. And also there's like 8 million people that were up for this one role. And somehow I got it. And I'm not saying I wasn't talented enough for it because you know, we all are.2 (54m 4s):Yeah. But you got it. And it's your re there's like a responsibility and a stewardship of the, and a seriousness of the profession and the role and the, and the it's like sacred in a way. Like, it's a thing. I, I totally, I hear that. Okay.5 (54m 20s):I think it's so important. And I think it's so important to give, like, this is like, it's hilarious. Like I don't, unless I can do a certain note, like, unless if I can, if I can't take up a note consistently eight times a week, I won't do it because I don't think it's fair that like, oh, well I can do it like three times a week. So those special three peep, three shows, they get it. And then the other ones get my, like, you know, less than show, like regular show because like they all paid a crap ton of money. So like, for me, I don't know, it's a cuckoo thing. Like I'm not somebody who's like giving you a different vocal show every day, depending on how I feel. I am going to give you the, like, I want2 (54m 60s):You give your best all the time. If you're when possible. And when, and if, and you don't mess around with that, you like, don't try to manipulate what people are going to get. And I, you know, I did a solo show, which was the word, like I loved my solo show in New York, but I did a solo show about cancer. And I worked for Nick cage for years. So that's in my solo show. I have like this crazy life. I was a therapist, all the things. So yeah, I've had a crazy life, but the point is I did this solo show and one night there was one ticket sold, okay. One ticket. And I went to my friend and I was like mother fucker. And I said, I don't do I do this show for one person. And she said, listen to me, who are you not to do the show for one person?2 (55m 40s):What if that one person needs to hear what you have to say? Who are you not to do the show? And I did it. And I, I did the show and I hope they got something out of it. And I, but, but she just said like, that person needs to hear what you have to say. They, they, they need to, and who are you not to give it to them? If that's your gift to offer, you've got to give it. And I was like, oh, and it changed my sort of my idea of like what it means to be in collaboration with the audience and like it, I was like, oh right. One person matters. That matters, right? Like that matters the one person, even if it's one person that got a discount ticket in Idaho that flew it, they matter to see you in wicked or whatever.0 (56m 39s):If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends. I survived. Theater school is an undeniable ink production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez, and Gina are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited and sound mixed by Gina for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.

“I hope I give you some hope.”All around, Lauren's stories are different. Her birthing journey includes Asherman's syndrome, infertility for over 10 years, two rounds of IVF treatments (each with only one viable embryo), a miscarriage, placenta accreta, and significant hemorrhaging after her first Cesarean delivery. Lauren miraculously got pregnant naturally with her second son. She was committed to having a VBAC even with her complicated medical history. When her water broke at 32 weeks, Lauren made her desires known loud and clear to every person who entered her birthing space that a Cesarean was not an option. Sure enough, Lauren was able to successfully VBAC with no signs of placenta accreta or hemorrhaging. After years of so much heartache and holding onto hope, Lauren was finally able to see one miracle unfold after another.Additional linksThe VBAC Link Community on FacebookHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Meagan: Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, whatever time it is where you are at, welcome. You are listening to The VBAC Link podcast. This is Meagan and we have our friend, Lauren, today. You guys, she is currently in Vietnam and it is 4:10 a.m. where she is recording. I cannot believe that she is up and ready to record an episode. We are so grateful for her for being with us today. She has a lot of great things in her story, a lot of great things that sometimes we don't talk about or know of. There's a certain thing in her story where I hadn't even ever heard the word before until I saw it in her story. So I can't wait to dive into her story and have her tell more about all of the things about her story.Review of the WeekMeagan: Of course, we have a Review of the Week so I will read that and we will dive right in. This is from saraalbinger and she says, “One month ago, I had a successful VBAC induction just 18 months after a Cesarean section. I almost called to schedule a repeat on my due date because I was so scared. Then I found your podcast and listened to it for two days straight. It gave me the courage to go through with the induction and I am so glad I did. I hope more people find this as a resource.”She actually emailed us, which is awesome. Congratulations, Sara, on your VBAC. So happy for you. Like I said, she emailed. You can email us your reviews if you would like or if you have a moment, maybe push “pause” really quickly and jump onto your podcast whether it be Apple or Google Play, and leave us a review. We would really appreciate it and again, we always read one on the episodes, so your review might be next. Lauren's storyMeagan: Okay. Lauren, I'm so excited to have you. Seriously, I cannot believe that you are up. I don't know if I could get my tushy out of bed at 4:00 a.m. to record a podcast. I'm so grateful. Lauren: It is early. Meagan: Yes, it is so early. Oh my gosh. We just talked about it. You just had a baby not long ago, so you're not only up at 4:00 a.m. but probably sleep-deprived within those few hours that you did get to sleep. So seriously, thank you so much for being with us today.  Lauren: No problem, I'm excited to share my story. Meagan: Well, I'm excited to hear it. I would love to turn the time over to you. Share all of the amazing things. You have had such a journey that has led you here today. Lauren: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. This is a wonderful opportunity for me to go back and remember what has happened to me over the last couple of years. My story started, I feel like, way back when. I was a Montessori teacher and at that point, I knew exactly what I wanted out of my birth at the age of 18 or 19 years old. I wanted a water birth. I wanted all-natural and I wanted to have all my kids by the time I was 25. Anyways, that didn't happen. I got married. I got married when I had just turned 23. Kids did not happen right away. My 25th birthday was the most depressing birthday I've ever had. It turns out I was struggling with some infertility there. At that time, I had sought some, I don't know. I will tell you that I pondered on it and it just didn't feel right. The time to take care of our infertility didn't feel right, so we ended up moving our family abroad. My husband and I taught English abroad, then we came back to America. We just so happened to live in Boston. We had some contacts there, but we felt, I don't know the right word, we felt very inspired to move to Boston. We didn't start working on the family thing right away because you have to have insurance for that but on the east coast, they pay for infertility treatment. If you have insurance, it's covered. I didn't know that at the time. Meagan: That's amazing. For real?Lauren: Yes, for real.  Meagan: I need to tell my sister who just moved to Boston and is having fertility issues. Lauren: Oh my goodness. Yes, the insurance coverage is amazing. So then I started finding out about other people who had moved there just to get the insurance just to seek infertility treatment. Meagan: Wow, cool. Lauren: Yeah, it was amazing. Exactly. I feel like the right people were put in our path at the right time. They shared the doctors and I was like, “Okay, let me go to your doctor. Okay.” So then pieces started to fall into place to figure out, “What the heck is wrong with me?” I think it had been thirteen years at that point in time of not stopping from having children. Everything was the way it is. So I go and they do this huge check-up on me. My doctors just couldn't believe the long list of all the crap that was wrong with me especially because I was in my thirties.I ended up having what was called Asherman syndrome. It's adhesive. It's scar tissue and they can exist in the cervix or in the uterus. Mine was everywhere. I was 100% scarred over through my cervix and my uterus. It took multiple surgeries to try to remove it. It's called hysteroscopies. Here's the miracle here. Asherman syndrome is not well known. It's still, “Oh, hush-hush.” A lot of women hear the word “adhesive” and that's exactly what it is. It's the scar tissue that's in the uterus and it usually happens after D&C or if you've had a miscarriage, there's a percentage of women who scar over. There are specific doctors out there that will take care of it. One is in Boston and the other one lives in California. I got to see that very specialized doctor and that was just a huge miracle. I felt like I was being taken care of. So we went there and my scar tissue was just so severe. I'm pretty sure I still have it. It's something that doesn't really go away, but it was blocking my tubes. That, and we had a diminished ovarian reserve, so my eggs were like I was a 44-year-old woman. I think I was 32 at this time and going through all this. I'm like, “My eggs are old. I'm old.”Then they did a biopsy of my uterus. It showed that it was inactive.Meagan: What?Lauren: It was menopausal. I was like, “So I've gone through menopause and here I am.” It turns out that if you don't have a period for over a year, you're considered in menopause. I didn't realize that because I hadn't had one in seven years at this point. Meagan: Wow. I didn't even know that either. I mean, I didn't have a period but I have an IUD, so I'm guessing that's a little different, right? Lauren: Mhmm, yeah. Meagan: I didn't know that. Lauren: Yeah, I had no idea. I was learning so much so quickly. There were a lot of emotions. I cried and cried because I felt like my journey of having children was completely over. I had a very slim chance of having a baby and so I was like, “Okay. We're doing this. I'm jumping head-in.” So I jumped and with IVF, I had only one good embryo out of my first round. It ended up in a miscarriage. It was nonviable and it ended up that it had something wrong with the chromosomes in it. They did some testing. This is where I feel like, “Oh, I had this journey.” Here it comes now. With IVF, they watch you and so after my two-week wait, I had a positive test. Okay. Then, they watch it grow. Mine wasn't growing, so then I had my ultrasound. They were like, “Oh, this isn't right. There is no heartbeat. This doesn't even look right. Whatever.” I'm bawling my eyes out because it's really hard.They waited an extra week until I was seven weeks when I went in for my D&E. The doctor told me it was because of my Asherman's that it was going to cause a huge, big problem. So he goes in. He scoops it out. That's the way I like to think of it. He just scoops it out and he's done. Lo and behold, my HCG levels were still the same, if not going up. I was still feeling very sick. The next two or three days later, I'm like, “Something is really wrong. Something is really wrong.” I went back and they drew my blood. Come to find out, my levels are still going up. I'm like, “Something is wrong.” I went back to my Asherman syndrome doctor. They did an ultrasound and then they did an in-office, I was wide awake, hysteroscopy. They took little scissors and they tried to go in and take out what they could see. Meagan: What?! This is giving me chills right now thinking about going through that. Lauren: Uh-uh. It was so painful. Meagan: Oh my goodness.Lauren: It was so bad. I'm just bawling my eyes out on this table and they were like, “This is too much.” I was like, “Yeah. This is too much.” I was scheduled for surgery the next day and that's when I was told about my accreta. That teeny, tiny little sac had grown into my lining. Again, my Asherman's syndrome was worse than the first time I went, which is saying something. I had a few more surgeries after that one just to clean it up. It took a long time, a lot of hormone therapy, and a ton of estrogen to try to get my uterus back up and running. They called it “jump starting” because I was still not having periods. They were forcing them through medication. Anyway, it was just a crazy time of my life. The second round of IVF was maybe six to nine months later. Again, I only had one little embryo. It turned out to be my son. At the time, we didn't know the sex of our child until he was born, so it was a really fun surprise. I was so excited. Well, and surely hesitant because you are like, “Oh my goodness, is this going to stick? What's going to happen?” He stuck and he continued to grow. His percentile growths every ultrasound were still 13% and 15%, so I had a small baby. It always worried me. We got flagged for genetic testing. We got flagged and we got called. It was like, “You've got to come in right now. We've got to do this ultrasound.” The worry that comes over your face is like, “Oh my gosh.” You just start breaking down and immediately crying. We drove straight to the hospital to do a two-hour-long ultrasound of just laying on the table. They don't talk to you, by the way, in this clinic. They just look. They look. They look. They look, and then at the very end, they may say something or you have to go to your doctor and your doctor will tell you but the ultrasound tech does not say anything to you.So it's just nerve-wracking. We ended up seeing a genetic counselor right after who then gave us the results of, “Oh, it's not anything. You're fine.” You had a little bit of leakage that could have caused this. It's not Down syndrome. You're okay. I was like, “Whew.” So other than that, my pregnancy was pretty normal. We got a doula right away, super grateful for her, and then my baby just wouldn't turn. He wanted to be feet down. I don't know how to explain it. He just wanted to be breech. We were doing our birthing classes. I just remember the doula who was doing them was like, “Well,” I don't know I was probably at 30 weeks. She was like, “Oh, he should really be head down.” I'm like, “Really? At this point, he should really be?” She was like, “Yeah. You really need to get on it more.” I was like, “Okay, I need to get on it.” At that point, I was like, “Okay.” So my doula and I worked on Spinning Babies. I spent so much time upside down every day. I was on an ironing board. I was doing all of these things for Spinning Babies. You buy the stuff. All of the stuff, I bought it. It wasn't working, so then someone was like, “Okay, you should go to the acupuncturist and do this epoxy–”. I was like, “Okay.” So then I'm burning this thing on the outside of my pinky toe on my right foot for 20 minutes. Meagan: Mhmm. Bladder 06.Lauren: Yeah, but I'm very pregnant, so to bend over for 20 minutes to do one toe and to do 20 minutes on the other toe was excruciating. I did it every morning and every night. I was like, “Okay. This is a lot. I am very dedicated to spinning this baby.” That didn't work, so I started chiropractic. I started seeing a chiropractor during my last month of pregnancy. I saw her every other day, and then I started seeing her every day. Again, nothing, and then I just got this gut feeling. It was, “Your baby's going to be born the way he needs to be born. You just need to accept that and you need to go with it.” When that happened, it just clicked in my brain. I was like, “Okay. I can still have a birth plan for a Cesarean. I can still do this and that's okay.” But that switch when you have planned something and you believe in something so hard– to make that switch in your brain, it's so difficult. I still was holding hope that somehow this baby is going to flip. They wanted to try an inversion at 37 weeks. I was like, “No,” because they were like, “If you spin the baby in the hospital and it works, then you are having a baby. If it doesn't work, you are still having a baby.” I was like, “Oh, then I'm waiting.” I'm very grateful. So we went in on my scheduled day with my big, long list of everything I wanted for my Cesarean which was wonderful. My doctor was very supportive and she made sure everything on my list got crossed off. I got to completely watch my baby being born, the surgery, and everything which was really unique for me. I didn't realize I was going to get emotional about my little Oden. Anyway, I just remember laying there and having my surgery. My husband was right beside me and my doula was also in the room with her essential oils. He comes out and it was announced that he was a little boy. He gets cleaned up. My husband goes over. My husband gets to do skin-to-skin with him. It was such a beautiful birth. It's like, I don't regret it at all. I'm just like, “I did everything I could.” Once you see that little baby, he was just, oh wow. He was on my husband's chest and he was rooting and making rooting noises. My doctor and everyone in the room just stopped. They were like, “We've never seen this before.” We've never seen a baby come out Cesarean and literally be banging his head on a chest wanting the breast. I knew right away. I was like, “That's my baby. He's hungry. He knows where it's at.” My doula was really excited. So anyways, I remember at this point that my doctor mentioned something about blood. “Oh, there's a lot of blood,” but I was dismissive because I had this cute baby over here rooting. It wasn't even until after I was in recovery and I started breastfeeding that my doctor came in and told me that I had hemorrhaged. I had an MFM who specialized in accreta and percreta and all of these things because I was just so worried that if I had a seven-week sac that stuck to my uterus, then what is it going to look like at full-term? I had done all of this research and I was prepared to lose my uterus with this birth. It didn't happen. I just felt so blessed. I felt so blessed that I got to keep it and that my child was born at full term. I just remember, “I can't wait for baby number two.” Anyway, I enjoyed this birth so much and him so much. The hemorrhage only added to my list. I had forgotten about it until baby number two and then it starts adding on, right?Okay, miscarriage, baby number one, baby number two comes and I really wanted my VBAC. I don't necessarily– my pregnancy was baby number two. I had accepted a job that paid for my insurance and I was going to go back to my doctors, but I ended up getting pregnant before. I mentioned before that I stopped having periods sometime in my twenties and went through menopause. I had gotten the COVID vaccine and gotten both shots. After my second shot, 17 days later, I started the first period I had in years and years and years and years and years and years. I was so shocked. I had no idea what was happening to my body. I was like, “This can't be happening to me. This is so weird and so foreign to me.” I remember just calling my doctor like “What is going on?” She was like, “You are not the only woman to report this. It's okay, just go with it. Track it. Let's see if we can have a natural pregnancy. Let's see if you can get pregnant naturally.” I'm like, “Wow. This is insane.” So, in the third month, I was pregnant. I just couldn't believe it. Meagan: Wow. Lauren: I'm like, “But my eggs are crap.”Meagan: Wow, wow. Lauren: Yeah! I'm like, “My eggs are crap. Everything is crap, right?” She's like, “Lauren, we are just going to go with it.” I'm just like, “Okay. Just going with it.” So yeah. Third month, boom, and I was pregnant. And yeah, wow. But it started off–Meagan: I'm sure. Yeah. Lauren: You just don't believe it. After you've been through everything, you don't believe it. So I just couldn't believe it. I started having a lot of pain and this is where I was like, “I'm going to lose this baby.” I just had this gut feeling like something was really wrong. I ended up going to the emergency room the day I took a pregnancy test. I was going. I was like, “It had better not be ectopic. I need to make sure this is in the right place. There's something going on.” They're like, “You're not pregnant.” That's what they told me. I was like, “Okay.” This little, dinky hospital. They did a urine test and they told me I wasn't pregnant. I literally had to tell them, “Listen. I've been through infertility treatment and I know that you could do a blood test to tell me if I'm pregnant or not. Come on.” And so then they do a blood test but in the meantime, it's been an hour and I'm a mess. I am crying. I am just an emotional, crazy mess. They come back and they're like, “Oh yeah, your levels are 100, so most likely, you're going to lose this baby. It's very early.” They already put this on me. So then they gave me a doctor because I am new to this facility because, sorry. I had moved from Boston to Connecticut to work and buy a house during the pandemic. So I am in little Podunkville with Podunk doctors. There's nothing wrong with Podunk doctors, sorry! But it's just different when you go from downtown Boston, top-notch to country, okay?So we were there and he kept telling me that my levels weren't rising. They weren't doubling. They are supposed to double and they weren't. Baby wasn't growing and nothing was happening for two weeks. So they did an ultrasound, but no heartbeat, nothing. There was something there, but they were like, “Lauren, we will give you another week before we do something.” I'm just a mess. I'm a complete mess. They drew my blood again and my progesterone levels were decent, but my pregnancy hormone was just not growing.And so a week or two weeks went by, I can't remember. I had a heartbeat. I just remember feeling so relieved. I looked at the doctor. I was like, “I'm never going to see you again. I'm so sorry, but I'm never going to see you again. I'm going to go to the best of the best.” So I jumped right back to my MFM up in Boston. The first thing out of my mouth was, “Okay, I'm pregnant. Will you support me with a VBAC?” And she said, “Yes.” She said, “Yes, 100%.” This was the kicker. She was like, “But Lauren, you have to know that because of all your issues, we are aiming for a vaginal birth. You can't sit there and go, ‘I want it to be unmedicated.'” She was like, “What we are aiming for is a vaginal birth.”I was like, “Okay.” And then I go home, I'm like, “I want an unmedicated birth!” I'm like, “I don't care.”Meagan: You're like, “Joke's on you guys, I'm going to do that anyway.”Lauren: Yes, exactly. So my pregnancy is progressing. Baby is head down the whole entire time. I'm super excited. I remember at 28 weeks, I had this very distinct feeling come over me that I was going to have this baby early. I didn't know what that meant. So I was like, “Okay.” So around week 30, I started prepping my house. I bought all of the baby things, got baby things out, just little things like that. In the meantime, I'm teaching kindergarten, I'm still working full time. I still have a toddler now and I'm just resuming life.This is when I really started hitting hard on The VBAC Link. I was listening to every podcast every chance I got. I was listening on my lunch break just to prepare myself. I did a class with you guys. There was an OB that was there. I had a ton of questions that I got answered, so that was really wonderful. I just really appreciate this podcast being there. I feel like that's why I really want to share because it was just so helpful, but no one had anything like what I had gone through. I'm like, “Maybe that means something.” I'm like, “Am I crazy? Can I do this?” sort of a thing. Anyway, so I didn't feel very prepared. My 32-week doctor's appointment was on a Friday. I drove to Boston which was an hour and a half away from where I live. It was a devastating doctor's visit. My sweet little baby boy was not growing. I had what is called, I have it in here because I'm like, “What? I forget everything.” It was fetal growth restriction.Meagan: Was it IUGR? Intrauterine growth restriction?Lauren: Yeah, but they called it FGR here. It was like fetal growth restriction, yes. Meagan: FGR, fetal growth restriction, yeah. Lauren: Thank you for that. I forget all of the things. And so then I was like, “Okay. Tell me exactly what that means.” My baby was measuring in the 1st percentile. So then she goes back and she was like, “Well, he's barely been over a 10th percentile this whole time. He's always been very, very small.” He was in the 10th and the 13th. I was like, “Where do we need to be to get out of this?” She was like, “You have to be at 10% to not have this label.” I was like, “That's not going to happen, is it?” She was like, “No, I'm sorry.” And I'm like, “Oh man.”So at this point in time, I was like, “Okay.” I was visiting her every week. I had her visit plus I had a blood draw, plus I had an ultrasound, so now it was moving up to three visits a week and I was having to drive an hour and a half. I'm like, “This is not going to be sustainable. I cannot work full time and do this.” I had made all of my appointments for that next week. I go home that Friday and then Saturday morning at 3:00, my toddler wakes up and I go in to tend to him. A big thing about FGR was that I had to count my movements. I wasn't feeling my baby move because he was so small that there were times that I didn't feel pregnant. I was like, “This is really weird.” It was one of those times when I was up at 3:00 a.m. and I noticed that there were zero movements. I'm like, “Okay, maybe he's asleep.” So I spent time with my toddler, put him back to bed, go back to my room and I'm starting to feel him move. So then I start kick counting, kick counting, kick counting, and then my toddler gets up again. I'm like, “Oh my goodness, you've got to be kidding me.” He comes into my room. He wants to snuggle, so I let him in my bed and he's holding me. I'm holding him and my husband gets out of bed. He doesn't do that. Anyway, next thing I know, I just feel this gush between my legs and I'm like, “What the heck? I am not prepared for this. This is not okay.” We have Google in my home, so I was like, “Okay, Google. Broadcast.” I'm screaming at the top of my lungs, “My water just broke! You have to come right now!” My husband runs in and he's freaking out. I don't know. It was a really wacky picture in my mind. He has his arms and legs sprawled out like, “What's going on?” I'm like, “Take our son. Take our son and get me a cup because this is gushing out and I don't know what to do.” It was crazy. I started contracting, but they weren't painful at all. They were like Braxton Hicks. My belly was tightening and then it was just gushes of water. I was like, “This is so crazy.”So I immediately called my doctor. This was the part that made me nervous because here I am preparing for a VBAC and the doctor immediately said, “You need to get to the hospital right now. You will have a repeat Cesarean and we will get this baby out. Something is wrong.” Meagan: Whoa. Lauren: I immediately started crying. Yes. Meagan: Scary. So scary. Lauren: Oh, 100%. The good thing is that I had 40 minutes for someone to drive to be with my son to ponder, sit down, and try to process this. Meanwhile, I'm walking around the house with a cup between my legs trying to catch all the water that is coming out of me. My husband and I were talking back and forth like, “This is not anything I had ever ever ever thought of.” I'm like, “Okay. I'm going to go in. I'm going to have a VBAC.” And so we both agreed that we were going to be open to what the doctors were saying. “This a bunch of learning. We are on a learning curve now. This is not on our terms. It's on this baby's terms. We are now open-minded and learning.” It took us an hour and nine minutes to get to the hospital. We passed five policemen. One actually passed us. We were way speeding. We were easily doing 90-100 the whole way. No one pulled us over, thank goodness. It turned out to not be that much of an emergency. We got there and the first thing that they did was they took me back to confirm that I broke my water. I was like, “You guys can't see the stuff gushing out of me?” I'm like, “Is this not water?” They're like, “Well, it could be urine.” I was like, “No, no, no, no, no.” I know what urine is. This is not urine. They were laughing because I was like, “This is not pee, or else I have been continually peeing on myself for two and a half hours now.”And so anyway, I'm like, “Okay, whatever.” And then they were like, “Yes. Okay. This is the fluid.” They came to my room and they talked to me about everything. PPROM is what it's called. It's a premature rupture of membranes. Now, I was a PPROM. Meagan: Yeah. PROM is just premature rupture of membranes but PPROM is premature meaning that the baby is before 37 weeks. Lauren: Exactly. Meagan: Premature premature rupture of membranes. Lauren: It was happening way too early. And because I was 32 weeks, they weren't going to stop it, so I did not receive any magnesium or anything like that to stop it which I was kind of grateful for because after I read, I was like, “Oh, I don't want that in my body.” It burns like fire. But they did start me on penicillin and steroids and all of these things because they wanted the steroids for the baby's lungs. The penicillin was because the risk of infection goes significantly higher when you have PPROMd or when you have PROM'd early because now I'm just sitting there with open stuff and it's easier to get an infection.They refused to check me, which was nice. They would not check my cervix to see how dilated I was or anything like that, but I do remember at the very beginning, she guesstimated that I was about a 1, so it was nothing. And so I sat there. They were like, “You're being admitted to the hospital. You will be here until you have your baby. Since you are 32 weeks, we will induce you. If you get to 34 weeks, you will be induced and you will have your baby.” The reality was that they go through my chart and this is where my past kicked me in the butt. They were like, “Okay, you have a chance of accreta. You have hemorrhaged with your previous Cesarean. You have to put in your mind that most likely you are going to have another Cesarean.” I was like, “No, I'm not.” This whole entire time, I was like, “No, I'm not.” I was like, “No, I'm not. I'm having a VBAC and that's it.” I kept telling every doctor that came into my room. I was like, “Listen, I'm having a VBAC.” I was like, “I'm having a VBAC. It's happening, so I don't even want to discuss another Cesarean unless it really gets to that point. I don't want to discuss it.” I was like, “I want to discuss how I can have this baby vaginally. That's what I want.” They were very supportive. I'm just so grateful and they were just like, “Yeah. Okay. This is awesome. This woman has opinions.” And so every new resident– I was at Brigham and Women's Hospital. Sorry, I don't know if I'm allowed to say that.Meagan: You can totally share. You can totally share. Lauren: Okay. Okay, so it's a learning hospital. You have a lot of residents and interns. I don't know exactly what you call them all. Every morning, there were ten doctors that would visit my room a few times a day. It was a lot of doctors. Anyway, so Wednesday comes and before that, they were like, “Okay, listen. You're either going to have this baby within 48 hours or it's going to be a week or two. It's either one or the other. We don't really have people in the middle.”Guess what? I was in the middle, so whatever. Meagan: Way to be different.Lauren: Right? All around, I'm different. The thing that really worried me is that I was like, “Okay, I want a VBAC,” but at the same time, I had these NICU doctors who were right there on my case like, “Okay. Here are the chances of this. Here are the chances of this. Your baby might be dealing with all of these different things.” Anyway, they were updating me every day on where my baby's development was for that day and what could be possibly wrong with him when he was born. “Oh, by the way, our NICU is full. We don't have any beds. So if you go into labor, we will be transferring you to a different hospital with your child,” or however it works. I'm like, “What? Are you serious?” They're like, “Yep. We're full and so is the hospital next to us, so it will be the hospital down the street.” I'm like, “Oh wow. This is incredible.” Anyway, so right then and there, I started praying, “Okay. Listen to me. If I'm going to go into labor, it better be the day that someone gets sent home.” It's got to work out. It's got to work out. It did, by the way. It worked out. On Wednesday, I started to have more pain. It was like, “Okay. I'm still contracting by the way. I keep having what I call Braxton Hicks contractions because they were not painful. It was just that my whole belly would tighten and my water would continue to spew out. That's the best way I can say it. I remember distinctly that I woke up at 1:00 in the morning on Wednesday and I started having pain. I called my nurse right away and I was like “Listen, they shifted. My contractions have shifted now, but they are still 10-14 minutes apart.” We just kept an eye on it. In the meantime, every time I have a contraction, my baby's heart disappears. They can't find him. I'm like, “Okay. Baby, cut this out.” So when that happens, guess what they start talking about? They talk about a Cesarean. They're like, “Oh, Lauren. His heart rate is really dipping really low. We are going to end up. You need to prepare.” I'm like, “Nope. I'm not preparing.” And so I finally get up out of my bed. I've been in a bed this whole entire time. A friend came and visited me. It was 1:00 in the afternoon at this point. I was standing up during the whole visit which was the most I had stood in two or three days. I'm starting to have regular contractions. They were easy, 4-6 minutes apart, somewhere around there. They started being really painful and I had to breathe through them. I'm this way. I'm like, “Listen. I'm not going to call my nurse in here because she's just going to prepare me for a Cesarean.” So I go for an hour with my friend and my friend is like, “Lauren, you really need to call your nurse.” I'm like, “Fine. You leave. I'll call my nurse.” So I called my nurse and, sorry I'm laughing. She's freaking out because she is like, “Why didn't you call me?” I was like, “Listen, I didn't call you because I don't want to have a Cesarean.” They called the doctor. He guesstimates and he says I'm about a 1 or a 2. I haven't changed much. Now, they have increased and they're back to back. I could not. I was like, “What? A natural birth? I wanted that? That's crazy.” They wouldn't let me out of my bed because of the heart rate and everything that was going on with the baby, so I was stuck and confined to my bed. I was just holding the railing and turned to my side. Every contraction was worsened by a million because my nurse was like, “Listen, if you don't want a Cesarean, I have to find the heart rate of this baby.” And so she is literally, in the middle of my contractions, I'm screaming and she has got that monitor and she is searching for the baby's heart rate to prove that he is okay. This continues and she calls the doctor back in here because my contractions were literally on top of each other for 2-3 minutes. It was so intense. I really didn't feel like I had time to breathe. I was like, “Listen. I am having this baby. I am going to have this baby.” My doctor– he's not really my doctor. He's the resident of my doctor. He walks back in and he basically tells me to suck it up and that lots of moms go through this. I'm not having this baby. He will check me for real this time. So he goes in and I'm about 3 centimeters dilated, but I'm 90% effaced. He was like, “Oh. Hmm. This could change. We're going to send you to labor and delivery, but don't put it in your mind that you're having a baby today because this could stall.” He was like, “I've seen this stall so many times.” I was like, “How would this stall? I'm in so much pain.” He was like, “No. This could still stall.” I'm like, “Okay, whatever. I've PPROMd. I have no idea what I'm talking about. This is all new to me. Okay, fine. This can stall. This labor can stall, sure. Okay.”I am put in labor and delivery and my labor nurse looks at me. She was like, “You're going to be having this baby in a couple of hours. I don't know what your doctor is talking about.” She is bad-mouthing him so hard. She's like, “I don't know what he's talking about. This is insane.” She was like, “Listen, I know. I don't want you to be infected,” but she was like, “I am going to check you right now. There is no way that with the amount of pain you are in and your contractions are on top of each other.” She was like, “I'm going to check you. I'm going to call the anesthesiologist. We're going to get him in here. We're going to get you an epidural,” because I was in so much pain. Anyway, I can't believe it. This is where I'm like, “I wanted a natural birth?” So my anesthesiologist comes in right after my doctor had come in again to check me. He was like, “It's only been 30 minutes. Stop paging me.” Those were his exact words. “Stop paging me. It's only been 30 minutes.” And now, I've progressed to a 5. His eyes got really wide because before that, he yelled at my anesthesiologist, “You're not needed here. You need to leave. This is not happening,” like that. My nurse was like, “What?!”And then he checked me and he was like, “Umm, this is happening. I'm so sorry. Anesthesiologist, please come back in the room.” He's yelling, “Please come back into the room. Help her! This is happening and it's happening very, very fast.” They were like, “Where's your husband?” I was like, “Oh my gosh, my husband's not with me.” At this point, I'm panicking. He's not even with me.Meagan: Oh no!Lauren: Yeah and I'm like, “Oh my gosh, I've got to call him right now.” They were like, “Call him.” So I call him. I was like, “Listen, I know I called you an hour ago and things were progressing slowly, but you have to be here now.” He was like, “Lauren, I've got an hour and a half.” I was like, “Permission to speed. Permission to put your cute little sports car to work. Go fast.” He was there in 45 minutes. He showed up. They were like, “Hold the baby.” There are the funniest things that you remember. It's like, “Okay.” My epidural half-worked. I was still having pain, but it was this weird floating area of, “I can feel pain on my left side, but not on my right side,” and so it was this weird state of where I was. I'm actually kind of grateful for it because I still got that natural birth feeling that I wanted. I still very much felt the ring of fire and the birth and at the same time, I feel like the hard contractions were taken away.So it was a nice in-between that I felt. But as soon as my husband got there, my labor nurse was like, “Listen, Lauren. I just need to tell you that because of your long list,” here it comes again, “because of this long list, you might end up with a Cesarean. I want you to know that they are preparing for it.” This time now, I'm uncontrollably crying because this is not what I wanted. She was like, “I need to also tell you something else.” I was like, “What?” She was like, “There are going to be probably 12-15 people in this room as you give birth.” I was like, “What? How many people?”Meagan: Why? Why so many people?Lauren: Exactly, because it was a learning hospital. Meagan: Oh, okay. Lauren: My doctor had his two doctors and my labor nurse had three assistants, and then I had the NICU team for the baby, and that's what it was. So I had the NICU doctor plus his three assistants or residents, and then they brought people in to watch me have this VBAC after accreta and after hemorrhaging. I wanted to be fully present for this birth. I told the nurse, “I want to grab my baby and I want to pull my baby out. That's what I want. I want to pull him out. I want him out on my chest.” They were like, “Lauren, the realization of that happening– if he cries, sure. If he doesn't cry, we are so sorry. We have to take him. We have to.” I'm praying. Long story short, the baby comes straight out. I mean, he's 4 pounds. They estimated him to be 3 pounds, but he was 4 pounds. He comes out. I got to watch the whole thing with the mirror. I had one of those resident people taking pictures the whole time, so I got really good pictures of my birth and here he is. He's screaming, so he has healthy lungs. I was just so happy that he had healthy lungs. I was like, “Okay. We're good.” Anyway, I got to hold him for about one minute while we did delayed cord clamping, and then I had to hand him over. I didn't get to see him again for hours and hours which was really hard, but I had done it. I had done it and I had my VBAC. It was successful. I'm just so grateful through my whole entire story that it had gone the way I really wanted it to go. I feel like I was prepared for so many things. Right after he was born, they were like, “Okay, the placenta is not stuck, Lauren. There's no accreta. Check. Lauren, you're not hemorrhaging. Check. Now, we just have to stitch you up.” I remember him taking way too long to stitch me up, but I just remember what I always wanted. I was able to jump out of my bed. The epidural got turned off and I was able to get up and start walking within an hour and a half. That's the whole reason for me. I want this vaginal birth, but I want to be present whereas, for my Cesarean, it took me almost a full 12-24 hours before I could really get out of my bed. It's just very different and I'm very grateful. I'm very grateful for the information that I received through this podcast to help me get the birth story that I wanted. I'm hoping that my story can help some of you out there that are listening that maybe struggle with infertility and any of the same things I did. I hope I give you some hope. Meagan: Yes. Oh my gosh. So many miracles in your story. So many miracles.Lauren: So many. Meagan: From moving to Boston and finding the doctor that you did find because that in itself, there are so few doctors out there who even know much about this, and then to go through all that you did to get pregnant and then trusting that, “Okay. This baby is just wanting to be this way and this is the journey.” And then again, not getting pregnant and what a crazy thing that all of a sudden, you are pregnant after months and then years!Lauren: Mhmm. They did a pathology. They did testing on my placenta to see why this all happened and why I PPROMd. It was because, I don't even know what they are called, but the placenta has the phalanges that attach to the uterus and it pumps the vitamins and nutrients in. Mine were scarred over and adhesive. They had adhesives and they were swollen. He wasn't getting the proper nutrition that he needed, which was why he came early. I can't help but think, “Oh, maybe that's my Asherman's.” They tell me it's because of COVID because I had COVID.Meagan: That's another question I was going to ask. Have you had COVID? From what I have heard, even the vaccine, which is interesting how yours is linked to the opposite with starting your period. They are saying that COVID vaccines are related to changing cycles and things like that. But sometimes, if they get the vaccine, then they go into premature labor. We've been seeing a lot of people get COVID and then their placentas are just like, “Hey, I'm done,” and they send the message to the body that they need to have a baby. I'm curious. Maybe it's a little bit of all of it. I don't know. COVID stuff is all a mystery. It's all very a fascinating thing.Lauren: Well, I'll tell you that the NICUs are definitely full. The doctors are definitely telling people that it's because of COVID that so many of these women are having early, premature births. Meagan: So interesting. How long before did you have COVID?Lauren: I had COVID at Christmas and I PPROM'd in late February. He was born on February 23rd. Meagan: Crazy, so a couple of months. Lauren: A month and a half-ish. Meagan: Yeah. Interesting. So interesting. Well, I am so grateful for you for getting up at not even dawn, for getting up in the middle of the night to share your beautiful stories with us. We are so happy for you and grateful for you. I will promise you this. You are going to touch someone out there. I know you will. Lauren: Thanks. I really appreciate that and again, thank you so much for having me. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Julie and Meagan's bios, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

It's been 1 year, 6 months, and 24 days under legitimate, legal leadership. And THINGS. ARE. HAPPENING. The DoJ is finally taking public steps in its' Espionage Act investigation of the 45th President of the United States, according to the search warrant that was made public this week. OH SNAP Other Titles Considered John Wick the Auditor Butt Hurt Emails Wi$ke$ha Special Show Links: Paul Manafort concedes he gave Trump campaign polling data to the Russians https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/paul-manafort-gave-trump-campaign-data-russians “It may be funny to you mother f*cker, but it's not funny to me.” https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1557546910101250051 Jordan Klepper takes on Wisconsin Trumpers https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1557518992411168768 Lauren Boebert's neighbors' 911 calls describe threats, husband running over mailbox https://www.denverpost.com/2022/08/12/lauren-boebert-neighborhood-disturbance-calls-911/ Subscribe to the Podcast: via YouTube via iTunes via TuneIn via Google Podcasts via Spotify Music: 78 & 45 archive: https://archive.org/details/georgeblood SFX: http://soundbible.com/ Purple Planet http://www.Purple-Planet.com Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/OMRPodcast/

Dan "The Revolutionary" Novatnak

After a few bonuses, Episode 51 is here.... First we kick it off with NBA Free agency (2:46), Omarion/Mario Verzuz (12:10) leads us to New music from Lupe Fiasco, Chris Brown, Lil Nas X, Kent Jamz, & Blk Odyssy (17:02). P Valley caused a stir on the internets with a sexual explicit scene (27.15). Kendrick under fire for boasting a $3 million dollar Crown of Thorns (38:35). The Roe v Wade verdict is officially in and abortions are federally outlawed (51:22). Which is leading to some women on a potential sex strike as well as more men seeking information on Vasectomies. Men, how would you feel to live in a world where a vasectomy was required? 50 people killed in abandoned truck (1:13:41). R&B Voldemort sentenced to 30 years (1:36:10). And we cap it off with a lil movie discussion and randomness (1:50:36). As Always thanks again for listening and be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel "The Goodelife" (look for the logo) as well as follow us on IG/Twitter @thegoodelifepod. 

By [wbt_preacher_link preacher=”Sean Finnegan”] The main focus of the Gospels is the life of Jesus of Nazareth. However, they also reveal much about Jesus' God. In fact, since Jesus always did his Father's will, we can even say that Jesus' words and deeds reflect God's heart as well. God is a loving Father (Matthew 5:14-16; 6:5-15). Calling God “Father” or “Heavenly Father” is so common in Christianity that it's easy for us to miss how radical and attention-grabbing this habit was when Jesus introduced it. Although God had been known as Father in a smattering of texts in the OT, Jesus regularly used the term for God in a much more personal and intimate way. God is a miraculous healer (Matthew 9:1-8; John 14:7-11). Jesus healed people constantly. After they brought him a paralyzed man, he left walking. The blind left seeing; the lepers, cleansed; and the dead, raised. What's more, Jesus' miracles were not only authorized and empowered by God but were also God's express will. Thus, looking at Jesus healing people reveals to us that the God at work within him is our healer. God works with the lowly (John 1:45-46). Joseph and Mary were not high status or wealthy. Nazareth was an unremarkable Podunk town out in the countryside of Galilee. And yet, it was to Joseph and Mary that God entrusted His only begotten Son! God delights to work with the lowly, the humble, the peasants. Throughout Christ's sayings and deeds, we see God's heart for the last to be first, for the outsiders to become insiders, and for the losers to be made leaders.The post God According to the Gospels first appeared on Living Hope.

From the opening through Podunk and the graveyard. Audio clips from the soundtrack as preserved at starmen.net; discussion audio hosted by 3rdStrongest. Join the conversation at our humble Video Game Academy. Thanks for listening.

Intro: Boz did MDMALet Me Run This By You: Will Smith and Chris RockInterview: We talk to Katharine Scarborough about The New School, Ron Leibman, Robert LuPone, Casey Biggs, the Actor's Studio, Neil Labute's Fat Pig, Harvard's A.R.T., Shakespeare & Company, Moscow Art Theatre, Biomechanics, Michael Chekhov technique, Michael Chekhov Theatre Festival, Ragnar Freidank, Mabou Mines, Dixon Place, The Brick Theater, JoAnne Akalaitis, Big Girl web series, Jean Taylor, clowning, clown burlesque, improv culture, Bridesmaids, Melissa McCarthy, actor branding, cultivating a good relationship with agents, One on One NYC.FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):2 (10s):And I'm Gina Kalichi.1 (11s):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.2 (15s):And at 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.1 (21s):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? So I think the main thing I just want to say is like, I took drugs, but we call it the medicine. Right. Everyone's like in the ma so I did, and I won't, it's still illegal because it's still in third clinical trials, but I took MTMA with a trained MTMA guide. Who's also a therapist whose name I shall not say so that she doesn't go to jail for some weird reasons. And I'm going to tell you, and you probably already know this from your, from, I know you have some like knowledge about psychiatry or about psychedelics in terms of medical use and stuff like that.1 (1m 12s):Not that you've done them, but you know what I mean? I know you, whatever the point is, I think it's going to change psychiatry. Like it's going to change2 (1m 21s):A hundred percent.1 (1m 22s):I had. Okay. First of all, I was scared shitless. So MTMA is the pure forum for people that don't know of, of ecstasy or Molly, but it's, it's, you know, pharmaceutical grade and it's whatever, it's very, you know, whatever, it's a, it's a legit medicine, but I was scared. I was like, I'm going to die. I'm going to take this. This is where for someone that has anxiety more than I have depression, I think now anyway, in my life, the fear was I'm I'm doing something illegal. This is wrong. And I'm going to suffer for it also, like that was the moralistic fear. And then the actual fear of what the fuck is going to happen.1 (2m 3s):So for people, you know, just so people know, like you're in this person, rented a house and Airbnb and had a beautiful, I was, it was just me and her and a beautiful, like, amazing bed. That was that she brings in. That's like a foam, a memory foam. It's not as shitty thing. It's like really great. And I even thought that before I was on drugs, right? Like I was like, this is a really good setup. The house was a neutral house. Meaning she picked a great thing, which was there. Wasn't the, the family of the people's art on the walls. It was like pictures of surfing and stuff and like water.1 (2m 44s):But like not a lot of people, there were no mirrors. Like I was like, is this made for this? And she's like, no, I just found this. There was no, no, the house was clean. So it felt really good. Right. But not sterile. So that was great. And she had flowers and stuff and there was like a table set up. So then you go in, you bring objects and, and pictures, if you want. And there's two kinds of MDM assisted therapy, right. There's talk therapy you could do with two therapists. I did not. This, this practitioner does not do that kind. She's a firm believer in like letting the client lead their own experience.1 (3m 26s):And at first I was like, oh, I hate that. I want you to take care of me. Like I was like, I want all the therapists in the room. Right. It was like a real, and then I said, you know, no, I'm gonna, I'm an adult. Like I can it's. Okay. And also when you have two therapists in the room, they, they, they use the music less. So what I will say is the music was, I would say 90% of what was amazing about this. I don't even like music really. Like, I'm not a music person, but you, you literally have your headphones noise, canceling headphones with th with curated music from MTMA musicians.1 (4m 7s):So people that have scientists have worked with psychiatrists and doctors to develop music specifically for psychedelic MTMA journeys it's and it's timed with the medicines. So, because they know, because they've done studies, they know the trajectory of the journey in terms of what you're going to be, what kind of thing is going to be maybe happening. So they time this music. So you put on these headphones and there's like blankets. And I brought my own blanket. And it's you do like beforehand, you say a prayer and like, not a prayer, but like, yeah, like, like a, like a meditation tension.1 (4m 47s):We said, I, and believe me, this was not something I took lightly in terms of, I for weeks have been committed to doing it. So then there's a workbook beforehand there's sessions with the therapist beforehand. So it is not a party. This is not, I cannot say this enough. It is a journey and not a party. So meaning that it's a whole thing. It's like a process it's it's therapy. It's it's medical treatment is what it is. Okay. So you have this headphones on and also the music is playing in the room as well, the same music. So that even if you take your headphones off, you hear it and okay. And you have total blackout shades on, on your eyes.1 (5m 31s):So a mask that is comfortable and soft, but really dark. And I was like, oh my God, I'm going to die. Like, this is, this is it. This is how I die. And then I was like, you know what? You have so much, like you you've done so much research. You've watched the videos, you know, this is not gonna, they're gonna kill you, but you're scared. Okay. But I just took the pill. I was like, okay, here we go. So I took the pill and then you lay down and you're like, okay, it's not working. Like none of it. And by the way, I've never taken equity in my life. I've taken throughs and I'm taking acid and obviously marijuana I've smoked and stuff and edibles, but never that. So I was like, nah, it's not working.1 (6m 12s):And then the music, okay, well, all I can say is it becomes a party for your body and the notes I will share with you in an email that she took. I said some of the funniest things that I've ever said, and also you're like still aware that you're you. So it's not the feeling because for someone like me who has trauma and panic, the big fears that you'll disappear, I will disappear. I won't have an identity and no one will take care of me. And I will, I will totally decompensate to the point of death. Like that is really the thing, this drug, this medicine, you know, you're still you like, if, if, if a police officer, God forbid came up and said, what's your name?1 (6m 57s):And you could answer all those questions. It's just, it literally turns off the part of your brain that is super judgy. So I knew what was happening sort of, but then the music, I was like, okay, this is not working. And all of a sudden, Gina, the music becomes the most beautiful music you've ever heard in your life. Like, you can't believe that humans made the music. Like I was like, this is, and I, I kept saying, this is like watching a movie with your body. So you're. Yeah. So you're like, and then, okay, so you feel, I felt great. And like, you're underwater, you can breathe under water and there's some visuals, but you're seeing nothing.1 (7m 40s):I mean, there's no, there's black, but you're seeing it. So you are kind of hallucinating. But the thing, and the thing that happens is with MTMA is that the whole principle is that inside of us, that these MTMA psychiatrists and therapists believe that there is an inner healer drive to live person who knows better inside of all of us before the trauma happens. Right. It's moved that we access that part of ourselves during the MTMA journey and you, and that's why they say trust the medicine. And I'm like, that is, fuck you. Trust them like beforehand. I was like, but you, and don't get ahead of the medicine, all these things they say.1 (8m 21s):And you're like, what? But you, you know what it means once you do it, you're like you is the most. So you're feeling good. I felt like you just feel relaxed and, but it gets you in that state. So then you can look at your trauma, so,3 (8m 38s):Oh, okay. Like making everything, just so PR conditions being perfect. Yeah.1 (8m 44s):And then you're like, oh, this is a hard song. So it feels like, oh, this is a hard song. And that's how I started to feel. This is going to be a song. And it, and I can only tell you that, like I worked through some it's, it is, it's like 12 therapy sessions in six hours in a, in a, in a, in a wonderful way in that I looked at some stuff, some crazy stuff, but it is not, we're not when we're on MTMA we're not attached to the trauma. So it's like watching a movie, but also you're feeling it.1 (9m 27s):Like I could feel fear and panic come up. So it wasn't like I had a good time all the time, but I wasn't, you can go towards it without feeling like you're going to be annihilated. I didn't think I was ever going to be annihilated by my trauma in the, in the medicine. I felt like I had the resources and I knew there, and I was curious about what the songs and the music and the drug was going to show me rather than petrified. And I have to get the fuck out of here. And like, I don't care what I do.3 (10m 6s):Did you ha did you remember things that you hadn't remembered before?1 (10m 10s):No. It was like, well, no, no. It was like different. It does it in a way that is like, not you. So the things I worked through, I can say it was like a song and the music is timed. When you're at the peak of the medicine for this, it was like some crazy, like intense, you know, soundtrack to a scary, not a scary movie, like, like, like a war movie. Right. And you're like, oh God. And at least that was my experience. But then what happened was I had a nine 11 situation where I was in the burning building is so crazy. This is nine 11. And I'm in a burning building on the 94, but I'm not panicked. I'm like, okay, this is what's happening.1 (10m 52s):And I go to a man and a woman who are dressed in business clothes, and they're sort of tattered. And we've all been through this horrible crash. And I say, you guys, we have to jump now. And they're like, fuck, you know, way to a man and a woman blonde lady. And I say, listen, I know you're really scared work on a jump together. We're together. And this is the last conscious choice we get to make as a group to do, to take, to take our lives in our own hands. I'm going to ask you now to take my hands and we're going to jump and they're like petrified and I'm like, we can do it. And then, and I'm here watching Jen, the observers, like what is going to happen, but not like I got to get the fuck outta here and clawing at my skin.1 (11m 38s):No, no, no more like we, I knew that we had to do this. And so I took their hand and we jumped and then we started flying. We flew away. So I like helped them to, and it's really me helping me. Right. So like, I get that now. But like, and so I wasn't like petrified. So that was a huge moment. But the other moment was none of the people I didn't want to come in, came in. So like your inner healer knows, like I didn't want to see my parents and I didn't want to see my sister. And I didn't. I saw my dad in the, like a field and he was young and happy. Great. We like, that was great.1 (12m 18s):But in the song, there was a, like a Tibetan song nothing's in English, which is great. So like, if there are words and lyrics, it's not an English, which is great. Unless you speak those languages, then you might know what they're saying, but I did not. And so there was a Tibetan, like guys scream, like screaming, singing, like chanting. And in my head, I was like, oh, this is the reckoning song. This is where he makes other people atone for their sins against me. He's yelling at them, all the bad things they did to me. So I don't have to do it like stuff like that comes forward where you're like, holy fuck. So, and then the other thing was the name.1 (13m 1s):And I will say this, and I will not say the name, but the name of someone I think like sexually abused me as a child came forward. And it just said, the name of your perpetrator is, and then there was the name and it wasn't scary. And it was at the end of my journey. And it was sort of like, this is just the name and it's the name I knew. And it's a name that I had questions about. And I was like, oh, okay. And it was like, not a dun dun dong. It was like, this is3 (13m 33s):Okay. Okay. Oh my God. I make so many feelings.1 (13m 37s):Oh God. Yeah. So, so that is my, so my takeaways are still, I have many sessions afterwards. I'm gonna meet with her tonight on zoom. And we it's an ongoing process. I don't know if I'd ever do it again. They say like, you just do a maximum of three, three sessions for any person, unless you have like severe, severe trauma. And then sometimes they mix it with mushrooms and ketamine and they do all kinds of things for like combat veterans and stuff like that. Or just people that are really stuck for years that are on like 40 meds. And like can't. So I will say that it's changing psycho, like it, because you are self fricking guided.1 (14m 21s):It is, I didn't make the experience about anyone, but myself and I was able to take ownership over. Like it was parts were scary. Parts were lovely. Parts were fun, but it was my experience. So like, you don't lie.3 (14m 40s):You're the protagonist in a story.1 (14m 42s):And I didn't make the therapist, the leader, or I sh she was there as a witness. So what I'm saying about MTMA therapy is if you are committed to it is one it's just like fucking having a dog or getting married or anything else. If you don't really have to, or need to do it, I would say, don't do it. But if you are someone who is in therapy, working on your shit and you feel stuck, or you feel like there is a trauma that you just refuse to touch in there, talk therapy or whatever MTMA is, is the thing. But, but I really recommend, like I took a shit ton of supplements before a shit ton of supplements after HTP, all things you can get at whole foods because your body does need to.1 (15m 29s):And I got a massage, you got to do it the right way. Like this is, I tell people it's not a party, but it's also, it's like a journey. And it's also a huge self care thing. It's like, it's all the all, and they say, the minute you commit to the medicine like that, you're going to go on a journey. The medicine starts working. So like stuff will come up before then you're on. So all this to say, what are your thoughts when you hear this?3 (15m 55s):Well, I mean, I'm, That's what I would be scared of this Learning something new about my past.1 (16m 12s):Right, right. I know. I know. It's3 (16m 17s):Afterwards. How do you feel about that?1 (16m 20s):I, I feel like she not first want to say, like, I totally get that. I was petrified and I, The worst in our life has already happened to us because we were children and we could not do anything about it. That is the worst part of the whole thing is that we were little and had no resources. That is the crime that was committed against us. Not that it, it was that we were resource lists. The thing about MTMA and how I feel. I never felt resource lists.1 (17m 0s):I knew3 (17m 2s):If I'm prepared1 (17m 3s):And in the journey, even while I was like, oh, this is going to be hard, but I never felt like D I was in danger and I never felt like a child. So trauma robs you of your adult hood. Right. So it tells you you're still five and you're still in the situation and nobody's going to help you. You don't feel like that on MTMA. I don't know about, I feel like on other drugs you might, but MTMA is like really renowned for people feeling in somewhat in control. Like I could have, I wouldn't want to drive a car, but if like I needed to, I could have been like, oh, Hey, let's get out of the house now, but I hear you.1 (17m 43s):But it is so evident in my journey that like,3 (17m 51s):We w it really helps to grow you up. Let me run this fine. Everybody has trauma that they need to look at. And that leads us into what we definitely have to run by each other, which is th this thing that happened at the Oscars and talk about trauma. And, you know, all I could see in that moment was two little boys. I saw Gina.3 (18m 30s):Exactly. I thought, oh, they're so hurt. So deeply hurt. I have no tools right now to it, especially for will Smith. It's like, he, he short-circuited somehow. And was his trauma was unable to stay under wraps and it came out in, on a public stage. And that's all I could see too, because that's my framework. That's my, that's my paradigm. Yeah. And, and, you know, of course in the information age that we're in and the, in the social media age, the, the, the, the second something like that happens, all anybody can think about is like, what are the hot takes going to be on Twitter?3 (19m 16s):Right. Okay. Well, there's a variety of takes, but they all seem to be mostly focused on who was wrong or what was wrong, you know, which to me is like, not the point, you know, like it's, who's hurt, who is hurting and what are they going to do about their hurt? You know, I said, yeah. I said, these people, all of them involved need help and support. Absolutely. They need help need shunning. They don't need, you know, I mean, and, and I don't really hear too many people talking about Chris rock, but I mean, I hope his people are checking on him because he gave his help to television.3 (20m 1s):And I just, I know that that has happened to him before. Right. I just felt like this is such a redo of his child that I don't know that it must be. And he said, you know, he's talked about everybody hates Chris. That was a joke. And he talks about getting him, getting in trouble with his mouth before, but I don't know, man. It was just so raw. And I kinda think they just, I guess they had to air it, but, and it's sort of live or whatever, but I don't know. I just, I wish there had been, I wish the grownups had come in. Well, what we need all I was telling my therapist yesterday, we need referees to say, wait, time out time, like psychological referees that are like, this is actually going into a territory.3 (20m 43s):That's not okay. So like, let's stop and regroup, but nobody, you know, it's1 (20m 47s):Capitalism and money. And nobody cares about psychology.3 (20m 49s):It's like, oh, good ratings. You know, this is getting before,1 (20m 52s):Like, fuck them. They're rich. So who cares about them? Or fuck that.3 (20m 55s):I hate that. I, that argument just really is just so tired. Like, oh, if you have money, then you're not allowed to have any other problem for life.1 (21m 4s):Well, the other thing I think is like, if we, if we live in a capitalist world, which we do, and basically the rich people run things, I want my rich people to be healthy.3 (21m 13s):Amen to that. Yes.1 (21m 16s):Yeah.3 (21m 18s):And talk about tools and resources. I mean, they, they that's, that's the one thing I will say, if you have those resources, you have a responsibility to make use of them in a way that contributes not detracts from the world and yourself and the people that you love and who love you, you know? Yeah. So it was sad. And, but at the same time, I was happy. There was theater back in the Oscars. I was happy about all of the firsts that happened. I was, I, it, it looked to me to be the most inclusive orange show I've ever seen in terms of what they talked about and hoop in the symbolism.3 (21m 58s):And I really, I really get into the symbolism, you know, when people wear certain things and do certain things, and this rep, you know, I'm sure if we could talk to the set designer, we would, we would learn a lot about what the symbolism was of the set. And so I thought that was interesting. I was wondering where they were sitting around these tables because it's not like the golden gloves are not eating meals. And then when, when these dancers got on, I thought, oh, this is for this. And, and it just felt like theater. And I just thought, yeah, okay, good. We need this. Anyway. We need, we need to get back to like, something more pure about why we all went into this because Yes. And visceral, because the other thing that occurred to me is like, wow, I never heard about this before, but it must be so tense to be at the Oscars,1 (22m 46s):Like horrible.3 (22m 48s):You're either tense about what you're wearing tense about whether or not you're going to win tense about what speech you're going to make tense about what I noticed people. I feel like I could read people's body language when they were dissatisfied with where their seat was. You know, I just felt like everybody was, everybody comes to that night with who are you going to tell me? I am. Oh,1 (23m 10s):Right. That's right. And am3 (23m 11s):I, is that going to be acceptable to me? And it's a very narrow definition of what's.1 (23m 17s):Yes. Well, yeah. It's like, yeah, it's teeny, it's impossible. It's impossible. So I think you got to go, like, I now know why, like Frances McDormand goes and she's like completely stoned or like, or like just crazy people do because it's too much pressure. That's the other thing I'm real I saw was with the, with the will Smith thing, was that the amount of, like you said, tenseness, you know, the amount of pressure they, everyone looks like ready to pop. They're so anxious and stressed out and understandably it's. So I, I know now why people don't go to those things. Like I always thought it would be so fun, but now that I'm looking at it, I'm like, that seems like a lot of work and also real tense,3 (24m 3s):Real, real tense, but that doesn't take away from the beautiful, you know, I heard some beautiful speeches and overall I think overall I hope everything that happened at the Oscars is indicative of like things moving in a better and better direction, but we're also very far away from a lot of things, a whole lot of things.1 (24m 26s):And, and then there's this, you know, and we don't really have time to talk about it this time. We're going to talk about next time maybe, but like this whole thing of like, okay, so a lot of, you know, like who gets to have a take on what went down? So like, people are, are saying, you know, I've seen members of the black community saying, you know, like no white people should talk about this. And, and frankly, I didn't feel the need to talk about it as a half white, half Latino or as a human. I also, my, I thought, I thought, oh, my framework is I come from a place of like, we're all traumatized. So like, that's what I, and I'm trained in that. And that's what I can chime in about if somebody asks my goddamn opinion, like you and I ask each other's opinion, but nobody's asking my goddamn opinion.1 (25m 13s):So I don't keep my mouth shut. If you want to ask me what I think, then we talk about it on our podcast. You know what I mean? But like, I don't need a platform Twitter to talk about will Smith and Chris rock, they, plenty of people are doing that3 (25m 25s):Where people1 (25m 26s):Covered3 (25m 27s):It's covered. It's well-covered yeah. Oh, I just have a very quick update about my fascination with those tick talks with the, the women and1 (25m 36s):They're getting ready and the coming home,3 (25m 38s):I found out they're all infomercials1 (25m 44s):For the products in there for all the products.3 (25m 47s):Yeah.1 (25m 48s):So it's actually nothing about there. They don't really do that.3 (25m 52s):I mean, who knows,1 (25m 54s):How did you find that out?3 (25m 57s):'cause my kids stole they're like, I mean, and they were, they weren't saying mom, you know, that's just infomercial. They were like, yeah, you can get all those products. If you just click on the thing you can see. And I was like, oh, so the whole thing is a commercial. And they were like, yeah, what did you think it was?1 (26m 12s):You're that it was a day in the life of a lovely lady with very many gadgets and outfit.3 (26m 19s):And it was just one of those moments like, oh, I, so1 (26m 24s):I have those all the time. I have those all where I'm like, oh, I'm truly an eater.3 (26m 29s):I'm truly so dumb. I deserve, I deserve to waste my money on these products and they don't want to get my money completely work. I did in the end, only buy one thing. Oh, you1 (26m 42s):Actually did buy what you3 (26m 43s):Buy. I bought it a egg cooker. You can, you can hardball eggs in the microwave.1 (26m 50s):Well, that's pretty good. Okay.3 (27m 9s):Today on the contest we were talking to Catherine Scarborough. Catherine is an award-winning New York city-based actress and writer. She got her MFA in acting from the new school for drama. And she's also trained with the Moscow art theater and the people's improv theater. She has a lot of interesting stories and she has a fantastic web series called , which you can find on her website, Catherine scarborough.com. So please enjoy our conversation with Catherine Scarborough.6 (27m 51s):Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Okay.3 (27m 53s):So congratulations, Catherine, Catherine Scarborough, you survived theater school and your first new-school alone. So I I'm really intrigued by the way, by your intro here, he says, can be interesting conversation. Does that mean you had a mixed bag of a time?7 (28m 10s):Well, first of all, thank you. I, yes, it was definitely a mixed bag. It's an interesting program. Yeah. I mean, I, the training, my professors were really great. I had a lot, I really am happy with my artistic training. It was the business side of things1 (28m 32s):That7 (28m 33s):I, we went out into the world completely unprepared.1 (28m 36s):Okay. When did you graduate? You look so young.7 (28m 39s):20 13, 20 131 (28m 44s):Is recent. So we graduated and fricking long, long time ago. So, so like, like, yeah, nineties. So, so at 2013, the new school didn't really prepare you business wise. And I mean,3 (28m 59s):When did these people get,1 (29m 0s):When are we going to get prepared,7 (29m 4s):Please schools do it, to be honest with you. I think that if it's a name, if it's a school that you can walk into an audition room and they're like, oh, you're a Yalie. You're NYU. It's a different story. But like, to give you an idea, and I got my MFA, it was not a BFA program. It was an MFA program when we were getting ready or we had done our showcase maybe. And then we were doing, you know, reaching out to agents and managers, this spreadsheet that we were given, some of the people on it were dead1 (29m 44s):Or in jail or in jail7 (29m 46s):Dead. I mean, one of my classmates came back, oh1 (29m 48s):My God, these people,7 (29m 52s):They were like, I'm sorry, this person has passed away.1 (29m 60s):That's3 (29m 60s):Crazy.1 (30m 1s):I really, I really applaud that. Person's tenacity. They were like trying to get repped by a ghost. They will do like, I'll take anyone, give me the ghost, even3 (30m 10s):The ghost ghosted me. Okay. So, so you weren't prepared, but what about the straight training side of it? Like7 (30m 20s):You,3 (30m 21s):Presumably you went there saying I'm going to be a famous actress. Give me all I need to know. Did they fit the bill in that way?7 (30m 30s):Yes and no. I mean, it was, you know, again, once again a mixed bag, I had some fantastic professors. I, I was lucky enough to study with Ron Leibman1 (30m 42s):Who he, more,7 (30m 44s):Ron originated the role of Roy Cohn in angels in America. He was Rachel Green's dad on friends. He and studying with him was really a gift. I mean, and he, you know, I mean, he had done what you want to do as an actor in his career. He had Tony, can I curse? I really, You know, he had a fucking Tony. So there was no, I think sometimes with acting teachers, there is an ego part of it where they, I don't know, they want to mold you or they're frustrated and they haven't done what they want, but he had done everything that he wanted to do.7 (31m 27s):And so really he was just in it because he cared about young actors and he was tough, but he wanted you to be the best artists you could possibly be. And so that was such a gift that there were lots of professors that I really had a wonderful experience with there. Casey Biggs was my classical technique. Like Shakespeare professor. He's wonderful. He was, he's a star Trek actor. If you don't know, the Saifai world gets a lots of Shakespearian actors because they have to3 (31m 58s):Make7 (31m 58s):Sense. You know, they have to take this ridiculous material and make1 (32m 3s):And make it accessible.7 (32m 6s):Right.1 (32m 7s):So for people that don't know, obviously the new schools in New York, did you audition? How was that?7 (32m 14s):Yes, I auditioned. So it, yes, it's in New York city. It used to be where the actors studio was. And then there was this gray Bradley Cooper went to my grad school at the time that the actor's studio was still attached. And then there was this big schism actor studio went to pace. And then the new school had its own drama program run by Patty lipomas brother bobble poem. So he was the Dean1 (32m 44s):Of the school at your school?7 (32m 46s):At my school. Yeah. Bobby Lou. And so, yeah. So the audition process was I actually, they asked you to prepare a scene. So you had to find a scene partner and do a scene rather than just a monologue, which was cool. So I had a friend of mine come with him. This is funny. And a friend of mine come and do a scene with me. I did a scene from a play that I hate, but that I felt like would make me appear marketable. I did a scene.1 (33m 17s):Yeah.7 (33m 17s):I did a scene from fat pig, which,1 (33m 19s):Oh, no,7 (33m 21s):But Hey, I got into school with it. So1 (33m 23s):Yeah. You know what I always say about that play? Like I actually know Neil LaBute and that guy's a Dick. So, I mean, I've met him. I wouldn't say know him. He directed did he direct, he directed Wicker man, that my boss Nick cage, was it the second time UN he's got problems. He's a, he's like a Mormon, he's got problems with his own body size. I think as a, as a plus sized dude, he's real weird. He's real weird. But anyway, I always say about fat pig. It's like, I am always rooting obviously for the actress that takes on that role.1 (34m 6s):Especially as a plus sized lady, I'm like, yeah, you go. And, and we think, God, I hope we're writing better plays in that, but you know what? It's not the actresses deal that is doing it so good for you. So you did a scene from that pig with your friends,7 (34m 22s):And then he got asked to audition for the school himself and he got into,1 (34m 30s):I'm glad you both did because you didn't.7 (34m 33s):I know it would have been nuts. So, so we do the scene and then we find out what happens then is something called callback weekend. And I actually, I have to say, I think that the new school at that time, because the training has completely changed at the school now, since I've graduated. But their audition process was the best that I ever experienced because, and by the way, I auditioned for graduate schools, like on three different occasions. And when I auditioned for the new school, it was like the last gasp. It was the only school I applied to that season. Like I was like, I'm done with this. I'm going to open it.1 (35m 11s):No one, no one accepted you the first times. Right. Mad at them.7 (35m 17s):It was really awful. But are you1 (35m 19s):Fucking kidding me? Okay. All right. So they, you were like, fuck it. This is the last hurrah. I don't get it here. Okay.7 (35m 25s):Yeah. So the only school that I applied to that season, so you do your scene and then they have something called callback weekend where it's a whole weekend. You go and it's a surprise. You don't know what's going to happen. You go. And they have, because part of the core of the training and the new school is having playwrights directors and actors create new work together, creating your own work is a big part or was at that time a big part of the training program. And so you had to put together, we were put in groups and we put together a short play in 24 hours. And that was our, our callback.3 (36m 6s):I mean, that sounds really stressful, but also really7 (36m 8s):Fun. It was so fun.1 (36m 10s):Did you write the play,7 (36m 12s):The playwrights? Did they1 (36m 14s):Right? Yeah.7 (36m 15s):Yeah. At some point too, I did have to do two monologues and I cannot remember when that happened. I think, I think, you know what it was. Okay. It was callback weekend. I had to go and do my two monologues and do like a movement workshop. And then you found out, okay, you've made it now. You're the last round and you're doing a 24 hour play. Yeah. And so, yeah, it was really fun to be honest with you. It was good.3 (36m 42s):Yeah. I bet it was. So what about for undergrad? Were you also doing theater and under?7 (36m 48s):I did, but I didn't get a BFA. I got a BA at UMass at the university of Massachusetts Amherst. They actually have a beautiful theater program there. I had a great experience with them.3 (37m 1s):Yeah. And what was the impetus to go to grad school?7 (37m 6s):I had always, I mean, since I was a small child, like four years old, I've wanted to be an actress. I always, and I'm not, I'm not, I'm a theater nerd. Like I always wanted conservatory training. My family historically was not supportive of this. I really wanted to get a BFA and they didn't want me to do it. And so I ended up going to, you know, regular school, regular school and just getting a BA but studying theater. And so I had always wanted to have the experience of conservatory training.7 (37m 45s):After, after I got my BA at UMass, then I did a, like a training program with the Moscow art theater kind of connected. Cause I had applied for art. Didn't get in. But then the Moscow art theater reached out to me and they were like, Hey, we do this summer program. And we also do a winter program in Moscow. So I did both of those things.1 (38m 9s):Awesome. Yeah. They tell you my art story.7 (38m 12s):Oh yes, please.1 (38m 13s):Dude. I was a fucking idiot. So I, I was at taking a leave of absence from the theater school at DePaul. And I was at, I was at Shakespeare and company on the east coast. I was working there, but anyway, I thought, oh, this is a great time to audition for Harvard.7 (38m 28s):What?1 (38m 30s):I don't know what I was thinking. Like DePaul was fine. Like Harvard, like air chief was actually going to be better. But anyway, I mean, it's all the same once you get there. But so I thought, let me just audition. Sure. I had, usually I have two monologues. I had one monologue. Sure. I was also young and you didn't3 (38m 49s):Read the,1 (38m 52s):I did not understand the assignment. So I show up at a party and I'm do my monologue. And it went really well, even though it was probably a totally ridiculous monologue. It was above my head and the person the woman goes, that's great. And then I just stopped. Right. Cause I didn't have another monologue. And I said, and they said, do you have anything else you could show me? And I literally said no, but I could tell you some jokes.3 (39m 21s):See, I know it's a great idea. I think that was a great, I mean maybe he didn't know her that well, but I like,1 (39m 28s):And it was the truth and I, and they, she looked at, it was, it was, I did not get in there and I think they were all like what? She was like, what I, it was, she wasn't that I was on drugs. I wasn't, but she probably thought this child is on drugs. Like that's the only answer. So anyway, I don't know. But also they closed so no longer around. So you, okay. So you, so you did, you went to Russia?7 (39m 51s):I did. I went to Moscow and I studied like one of my teachers that I stayed with her father was Stanislavski student. I mean, it was crazy1 (40m 2s):My, oh,3 (40m 3s):Tell us everything about that program. It sounds interesting.7 (40m 6s):And I mean, considering what's going on, it's so sad in the world, but I always will hold my experience with the Stanislavski summer school and with it's my hot mess, Moscow art theater, very, very close because you know, I think as actors, NSX and students, we are delicate creatures and our confidence in ourselves and in our instrument and in our own talent is very, very delicate at all times. You know what I mean? And it really studying with them really made me fall in love with the theater and ma built me up and made me feel like, oh, this is what I'm meant to do with my life. And it just was because again, these, you know, the Russians, they, they don't give a shit.7 (40m 53s):They're all about the art. And they care about you as a, an artist. And1 (40m 59s):Did they not? Can I just say, were they not? Were they inclusive about body sizes? Oh, see, this is my problem. It's like what kid? Anybody fucking, not even in Moscow.7 (41m 11s):I mean, listen over there. It's definitely. But what I will say is my experience in classes and stuff, they just expected me to do it, you know, like,1 (41m 21s):Right.7 (41m 21s):My, my Grotowski admire hold biomechanics teachers. They were like, okay, now you will do backbend. You know? And I would just wouldn't do it. And it was like, okay, Catherine, now you will. You know what I mean? And so, and I, you know, I, we had this one teacher who re actually recently passed away. He was the most wonderful man. His name was Misha and Misha taught Michael checkoff technique, which I had never studied before I studied with them. And he was a lunatic, but like in the best, most beautiful way he would do this, this game with us called I love myself where, where he would have us run around the room, like crazy seagull.7 (42m 10s):And then while we're running around the room, like crazy seagulls, he is humming the theme to the godfather. So he goes,1 (42m 18s):It's fantastic. It's like what I did in my day program in therapy.7 (42m 24s):So he's going up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, and then he'd clap his hands and go number one. And you had to hug yourself and he goes, I love myself. And then he'd clap again. And then you have to run around again and he'd go bump up, Clap number two. And you'd hug someone and he'd go, I love my friends and Cutest. And like, he, I don't know, it was, it was a lovely experience. And I got to do Google. I was in a Google little, oh, Hey, I was in the inspector general. And I just felt seen by these teachers3 (43m 5s):Randomly, I don't know what the connection is, but they're in my town, which only has 30,000 people in it. There's a Michael checkoff like festival. Oh, I don't know if he lived here or I I'll have to look into it more Connecticut.7 (43m 24s):Is that because my grad school, Michael checkoff technique, professor Ragnar fry dog does a maybe1 (43m 34s):Greta. Steve. I bet it's gotta be connected. Ragnar and fry. Duncan7 (43m 38s):Connect,1 (43m 39s):Cover all connected.7 (43m 40s):Yeah. It might be. It might be there. It's somewhere up. I don't know. It might be,1 (43m 46s):Are you in New York city?7 (43m 47s):I am. I am in the city. Okay.3 (43m 51s):Okay. So you didn't feel prepared once you graduated. So what did you do?7 (43m 56s):Well, one thing that the new school, like I said, that they did, that was great. Was they taught us that we have to make our own work, which I think is true. I mean, I think, you know, and you know, I just been through this experience where I had to plumb all of this personal trauma to, you know, being in front of your friends to be an actor. I don't know. And there was a crisis in my family and I ended up using it and applied for an artist residency with Mabu mines. I don't know if you guys Mabee mind says1 (44m 33s):I don't, what7 (44m 34s):Is that? So Mabu mines is a theater company. That's been in New York city since like the sixties, seventies. And they're very experimental run by who has since passed away Ruth Mela check and Joanne Akalaitis and Lee brewer. Who's also, so they they're really into cookie, like experimental crazy theater. And so I got an artist residency with them right out of graduate school. And for a year developed my own place,3 (45m 5s):Something where you had to write a proposal about what you would be working on there. And, and you're, so you wrote something that was informed by a terrible thing that happened to you.7 (45m 15s):Okay. And so, yeah, I wrote a few3 (45m 17s):Minds saying anything about,7 (45m 21s):Because I wrote a play. So yeah. So I come from a very chaotic family. There's just all kinds of craziness. Always my father, who is much older, he was a doctor for nearly like 50 years, maybe 50 years. And he had this huge practice in this like shitty Podunk, back ass words, town and Florida. And he's very eccentric. He doesn't make friends, he's not politically savvy and was employing really ne'er do Wells to run his office.7 (46m 4s):And one of his nurses was writing counterfeit prescriptions1 (46m 10s):For opioids,7 (46m 11s):Opioids. So the, the, what is it? The DEA shut down his office and conducted an investigation for over a year while I'm in graduate school. This is going on. And then D couldn't get him on running a pill mill because he wasn't, but got him on insurance fraud, which I will tell you, actually, something that I do have done in the past no longer, but for a survival job, I've worked as a medical secretary. Every doctor concerns, insurance fraud and the1 (46m 50s):System, the system is set up for that. What are you7 (46m 52s):Talking about? So at the time, my 77, my in fact, my, was it my third year. Yeah. My third year of graduate school, my 77 year old father went to jail. Thank God he wasn't in there for very long, but we fought, he might be, he was held on half a billion dollars bail. Like it was insane how they went after him. And, you know, it's funny because I've been rethinking the project that I did because I was so fresh out of it. I essentially, I took because as he started me letters from jail, and then I realized he had been writing me letters since I, for like 20 years, he's a letter writer.7 (47m 37s):He himself is kind of insane. Like, he's, I love him, but he's, you know, and so anyway, I took all of that source material and I created a play out of it.3 (47m 51s):Wow. And, and I mean, presented for the public, right. Like people came to see it. How was it received?7 (47m 58s):I think it went really well. I mean, it was my first, you know, I, again, being unprepared, you know, coming out of graduate school, I didn't know a lot about promoting your own work, you know, I didn't know to write a press release and I didn't know to, but I did it with Mabu mines. And then I workshopped it in a few other places. I did it at Dixon place, which is another like incubator you're in the city. And then I did it in residency at the brick theater in Williamsburg. And that was, yeah, that was the last showing that I did1 (48m 30s):A solo show.7 (48m 31s):No, I had a hue. I unwisely had a huge cast. It was like nine all of us. Yeah. But it was like about because I'm from the south originally and it was about my family. And like the stories you tell yourself about your family versus reality versus very, yeah. It was, it was a great experience doing that. So3 (48m 55s):How have you continued to create your own work? I know you have a show, your own show, big girls. Is it called big girl?7 (49m 1s):It's called big girl. Yes, I, yeah. I really do enjoy writing and writing for myself. I think that, yeah, my experience has been more fruitful in writing for myself. Then, you know, the little parts you can get or, you know, yeah.1 (49m 20s):I want to let your, I just want to give you permission to let yourself off the hook for the publicizing of your thing. No, no. I need to tell you that I, when I did a solo show and it went to New York, I fucking paid a publicist $10,000 and they didn't do anything. So, so, so I'm just saying he, they didn't write a press release either and you were out $10,000. So was actually saying you saved $10,000. So you did good. Oh, wait. So Gina asked about like, yeah. So you have big girl is a, it's a, it's a show that is still is an ongoing, is it happening right? The second?7 (49m 56s):No, we, so we did. So the way big girl came around is that I started taking improv classes of all things. I hate improv, but I'm glad that I studied it. And I met my producers there in improv class. And I had written a play about body image and they came to see reading of it. And then we decided to do, let's do something together. We decided to write this web series. And so we, we worked on it from like 2018 through 2019.7 (50m 37s):And it's five short episodes. It's stories based on my life, but heightened about dating and just living as a plus sized woman in New York city, every episode is a different genre. So there's a clown episode, a black and white clown episode. That's episode three, which is my favorite of clowning is my favorite theatrical practice. I think I'm working on a clown show right now, actually, but clowning is my favorite. So what do you3 (51m 7s):Love about it? What do you love about coding?7 (51m 10s):I think that clowning is a way of celebrating your vulnerability and your ridiculousness. You know, I think that whatever makes you feel vulnerable is actually your superpower as a performer. It's the thing that people can see that connects us all to our, you know, terror of the abyss, right? And clowning is such a loving and gentle. Isn't the right word. It's, it's a very freeing way to just celebrate whatever is silly or weird about yourself. And if you can laugh at yourself, it gives the audience permission to laugh at themselves, you know, and it's also just really fun.7 (51m 60s):I, I have this beautiful clown professor, my clown, professor, Jean Taylor, she teaches at the Barrow group and that new school and over the pandemic, she reached out to some of us and was like, would you all like to do some zoom clown sessions? And let me tell you that saved my mental health, my like twice a month clown meeting it.3 (52m 25s):It was a picture of a clown school in zoom.7 (52m 28s):It is, I mean, we would just get into nos and we would do eccentric dance. And, you know, she would just have, she has something called go to my spot, which is like, as your clown, you find your spot. It's the whole thing. And, you know, we just made it work and it was, and we would create little, like a tubes as clowns that we would do for her. And it was, it's just, I just love it so much. It's just a, I don't know. It's like balm for the soul. It makes you feel joy.3 (52m 59s):And this is what happens when people feel left out of whatever's happening mainstream wise, as they go find a, like a little off shoot, you know, where, where any aspect of being different is is okay. Celebrated whatever. I mean, in a way it's like, okay, well, I guess that works out too, even though we'd like to be able to be included in mainstream stuff. Right.1 (53m 21s):Well, I feel like that's how all these theater companies that we adore love were made and then, you know, then it becomes something else that gets commercialized. And, but like, if you think about it, like a lot of, a lot of stuff in life, right. Comes from that. And like, I'm now writing feminist body horror. I know, I didn't even know that existed. It only happened because I just was like, okay, well maybe, maybe this. Okay. Fuck it. And then people are like, no, it's actually a genre. And I'm like, what? So like clowning was like, we can do this thing together and tell these stories. And people were like, oh yeah, that's good. And so then that it becomes a thing, you know, for years and years and years, so, okay.1 (54m 4s):So you, you, are you doing a clown show? Are you developing a solo clown show?7 (54m 10s):I have a co clown and a director and we are putting together a clown burlesque show.1 (54m 19s):I love that.3 (54m 21s):That sounds amazing.7 (54m 23s):It's going to be, I'm really excited. Yeah. It's going to be, we're just at the beginnings, like applying to festivals and things like that. And we're just about to start real rehearsals and1 (54m 35s):Oh, is it a scripted, like how does that work in terms of like, what, how what's your process like for us? So I don't know why I keep pushing you to do solo work. I keep asking if everything you do, I feel like I really need you to do a solo show. Apparently7 (54m 46s):I should do a solo show. I haven't before this1 (54m 50s):Do what you want. I just said, so it's a solo show. So you're doing your clown burlesque show. How do you write, is it scripted? Tell me about that.7 (54m 60s):That is a very good question. We are figuring that out because clown involves a lot of, I don't want to call it improvisation, but impulse it's like, you have to let your in order for it, to be honest, right? The clown clowns are my teacher put it this way. They're like cretins. They're very, they're there. Everything is very simple and they're idiots, but experts at the same time and you have to leave room for the unexpected. So our tactic right now is we're going to have a, a loose, an outline, like beats that we want to hit, let's say, but then to leave room for our clowns to play and do what they want.3 (55m 47s):I'm kind of curious about this thing you said about improv, because I also have the feeling that I hate improv, but only to say that I hate doing it, but actually if I was good at it, I wouldn't hate it. So what do you hate about it?7 (56m 2s):I am also not good at it. I get too, too in my I'm just not good at it. I get too in my head. I'm like, why are there so many rules? Why can't I ask questions? Why can't I just come up here and have fun? Why does there have to be a, what does the Harold, why do I have to go back to see the,3 (56m 22s):I mean, think that like, this is all just because a bunch of guys made up improv, right? Like what would it have been like if it was a bunch of women who, who developed the art,1 (56m 35s):It would be clowning and it would be, it would be something more beautiful. I mean, I just think the culture of improv is such garbage and I happen to love improv. I love, love, love it, but I love it because I'm scared because I do feel like you can do no wrong and improv, especially at like an improv audition for commercials and shit are my jam because there's no things to memorize and, and, and to be serious actors and not fuck anything up, but that does crossover into yeah. It, if you're in a culture and improv like school, the culture is there a lot of rules and there are a lot of stuff.1 (57m 16s):And also to be fair, you know, to be, or to be honest, there's a lot of drinking. There's a lot of drugging. It's just not my scene. And it's also really like a 22 year old white dudes see3 (57m 25s):Very fresh, very fat frat life,1 (57m 28s):But okay. So go ahead.7 (57m 30s):Wait, where was1 (57m 31s):I? Oh, no, it's me. I was just saying, go ahead. Either one of you. Cause3 (57m 36s):Well, I, I, I can't actually bring us back to what we were talking about before, but I can ask you, does new school do a showcase at the end? Can you tell us about it?7 (57m 48s):Sure. So it was, we did our showcase at playwrights horizons. We worked on our scenes for a semester and there were a lot of us in my class. So I got into graduate school, like at a time when people like right after the oh eight recession. So tons of people were applying to graduate school and they let 35 actors into our class. And so that was a big, obviously a big issue all through my graduate experience was what do we do with all of these kids?7 (58m 36s):There were, I think at least a good 10 people in my class who had no business. Like they just shouldn't have. And there were people who graduated from the most expensive. The, my school debt is so ridiculous. It's imaginary. There were people who graduated from my program who never stepped foot on a main stage.1 (58m 56s):We, why is it so fricking expensive? What's happening?7 (58m 60s):I it's the new school. I don't know. But yeah, it's the most expensive,1 (59m 5s):Never we're up. We've heard this before, by the way, at other schools Where the people never, there were people that graduated, maybe not an MFA, but like, there are people that graduated that were never in a show and I'm like, okay,7 (59m 19s):I would have, yeah. I,1 (59m 22s):Why weren't they at a show? They never got cast or7 (59m 24s):They didn't get cast.1 (59m 26s):I give him like a pity part. Like you're going to be Cinderella's step sister. And the,7 (59m 31s):I mean, they would be like in the chorus of something1 (59m 34s):That would have been me. That would have been me. I know it would've been3 (59m 38s):Me too. Me too, but was it for agents? And the showcase was for agents.7 (59m 42s):Yeah. Agents and managers. And I did two scenes from bridesmaids because bridesmaid said recently come out. So I did the airplane scene with, and then I did her, her monologue at the end about being in the CIA. I just love. And it probably wasn't wise of me to choose scenes from what, but I was like, fuck it. This is what I wanna do. I worship Melissa McCarthy. I think that she's I, if I ever met her, I would absolutely lose my mind. I just think she be,3 (1h 0m 13s):I think that was the perfect thing to do because right. Because the, the, the thing that bothered, I are always talking about that we never got is that we were supposed to think of ourselves as, you know, to be crass, like a product and what, you know, so what is our brand and what, you know, and we never did that, but that is what is required. So why is it not good to have done the Melissa McCarthy?7 (1h 0m 36s):I guess maybe I think you're right. I maybe I felt like I should have shown more range.1 (1h 0m 42s):They're not looking for range. Let me tell you something. They're looking to look at you seriously and now be in LA. I can really tell you looking at, oh, oh, she knows. She, she, she knows that we think she's going to be like the Melissa McCarthy character. Great. So let us just all get on the, the Melissa McCarthy bus with her, and then we can sell her that way. And maybe we'll all make a lot of money and be rich. Now look, I'm not saying that's a good thing. I'm just saying it was smart in terms of a business move. And please tell me you got an agent. Did you get an agent and a manager?7 (1h 1m 15s):Ah, I, I got one agent who freelanced with me for a minute and he sent me on two auditions in three years.1 (1h 1m 31s):Okay. All right.7 (1h 1m 32s):So1 (1h 1m 33s):Not good, not good.7 (1h 1m 35s):And that agent, I mean, I,1 (1h 1m 38s):What,7 (1h 1m 39s):He, it just,8 (1h 1m 41s):Eh,7 (1h 1m 44s):I'm worried because why?1 (1h 1m 46s):Okay. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. This is not about him. This is about your reaction. You don't have to, obviously don't say the name, but this is about your experience of what it was like to be that age and work with is someone in the industry. So tell it now.7 (1h 2m 2s):Okay. So from that point, yes, from that point of view, you know, number one, it, you know, I, I had one really solid audition. I didn't book it, but it was my first big audition in a big room. And I went in and I was prepared and I killed it. And I remember, oh, at PA, oh, oh wait, okay. It's back. Oh, you're1 (1h 2m 24s):Fine.7 (1h 2m 25s):Okay. Like froze for a1 (1h 2m 26s):Second. That's okay.7 (1h 2m 29s):I went in and it was Judy Henderson's office. She's a casting director. I killed it. And I had them all laughing. And I remember I walked out and I heard the director say, oh, that was really good.1 (1h 2m 43s):Yes.7 (1h 2m 44s):So that was such a win right out of an acting program. You know, I didn't get a call back. I didn't book it, but it was such a great, you know, experience. But then after that, and I emailed my agent to say, Hey, this was so great. This is what the people said, send, thank you, notes, all of that. But he like had this Facebook group for the members of the agency and he would have these mixers, Which, and I went to one and it made me so uncomfortable because it was like him. And then a bunch of like women, you know what I mean?1 (1h 3m 23s):Yeah. It's gross. That's gross. I don't know who you are, agents. So it's not a personal thing, but also that's gross.7 (1h 3m 29s):Yeah.1 (1h 3m 30s):It's weird. That's weird.7 (1h 3m 32s):And like also something that made me super uncomfortable would be that there would on the Facebook group, he would put up these statuses, like, you know, a word to the wise, never write an email to an agent like this deducted that dah, dah, and don't show up to an audition doing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I just in my head, I'm like, why don't you go get me an audition instead of spending your time? And like, there is no roadmap for young actors. None of us know what the fuck we're doing.3 (1h 4m 4s):Well, let's do mystify something right now for people who haven't gone through this yet. Why do some agents not get auditions for their clients?1 (1h 4m 16s):Oh, I know. I feel like, I feel like for what my knowledge is of working in casting and then also working as a writer and an actor, is that agents. Okay. So like, this is my understanding. All agents get the same breakdowns, right? And a lot of times for better, for worse they're thinking is I need to, I can't possibly do everything on this breakdown. So who are the people I know that are gonna, for whatever reason are top of mind that are gonna, that have a better, good chance of booking these things. And then they sort of gravitate towards that. And then a lot of people who aren't, don't look a certain way for whatever, get pushed to the side.1 (1h 5m 2s):And then I think we're also not as actors at our schools and in the world taught how to have a relationship with an agent that is on equal footing so that you stay top. This is what I teach my kids at the theater school, which is like how to build a relationship or get out of one. When you feel like it's not on equal footing where you can't, you don't feel like you can call or email the agent and say, Hey, I'm feeling like I'm not going out. Is there something that we can do together? Because we're so scared of the agent. We never make those, but I am. I think that is what happens.1 (1h 5m 43s):And then the fear begets fear. And then you just never hear from them again. Then they drop you or whatever. So it's a matter. So that's what happens. And, and agents, a lot of times, like the rest of us are traumatized and hurt and scared. And, and it's easy to take that shit out on younger people.3 (1h 6m 3s):So it's not what I was thinking. You were going to say, which is that if the agent is unknown, they literally cannot get their client. Okay. It's not that,1 (1h 6m 15s):I mean, I feel like they, I feel like S H certain agents have better relationships than others with casting, but everyone gets the same breakdowns. It's, it's a, it's a common document. So anyone, if we, if you, and I said, now we're an agent. We would get those breakdowns and we could start submitting people. And if you send a kick ass letter that says, Hey, Catherine is perfect for this. Look at our shots. Please see her, they'll see her because they want, Cassie wants to meet new, new, fresh faces that are kick ass. Like that's their jam. So, yeah, it's a matter of top of mind. And3 (1h 6m 49s):Well, since we're on the topic, I don't know. You mentioned this thing about getting a good relationship with your agent CA well, so Kevin, do you have an agent now?7 (1h 6m 57s):I am. Now I am looking for representation right3 (1h 7m 0s):Now. All right. You're looking for representation. A lot of people who listen to this podcast are recent graduates from theater school. I have my only experience with an agent is I'm helped my son with his stuff. And so I'm, I have a relationship with his agent. I'm very scared of this person. And when he doesn't like something we did just on my stomach. So like, what, I mean, you know, what, what do you do and how do you have a good relationship with an agent? Because it seems like they're all the hassle.1 (1h 7m 31s):No, no, they, they, it does seem like that. They're not all assholes, but I feel like a lot of them are, are scary. So inherent and Gina, Gina talks about this and Catherine, I want to know your thoughts. So, so we talk about the idea that like inherent in this industry is a pear is a patriarchal and like a, a status, right. Triangle, whatever hierarchy. So that creates a dynamic where the people that have, are seemingly having the more power are, are, are a little bit mean. It can be a little bit mean. So Catherine, how do you think, I guess my question for you would be like, what is your, maybe your experience with how to work with that and what are you looking to do differently this time when you have an agent, I guess, for the youngsters7 (1h 8m 15s):Listening? So my experience with them being mean, Or I just think that there is a, in my experience, there has been a feeling of being dismissed perhaps of, you know, yeah, yeah. You know, I do a lot of in the past, I've done a lot of there's this company here in the city called one-on-one, which there's another one that's called, like actor's connection where you can go and it, it kinda sucks. It's pay to play and you pay like a little fee to do a class with a casting director or an agent, or, you know, an opportunity for like a 10, 15 minute meeting with an agent.7 (1h 9m 2s):And I have met some success with that, you know, in the past, I don't necessarily, I feel a little morally repugnant about pay to play. You know, this is such a, I mean, the other thing along with the hierarchy of this industry is that it's predatory, you know, it's very predatory on the hopes and dreams of, you know, young actors. And so I have had tons of experience going into auditions for things. And, you know, it's like, oh, you have to pay to do this, or you have to it. And it's like, okay, well, fuck you, bye. I'm not going to pay you to work. But, and then what was the second part of your question about, oh, what am I looking to do differently?7 (1h 9m 45s):I mean, I think the thing is right, I'm a character actress. I'm a misfit, certainly in the industry. And I need to find someone who really gets me, gets my work. You know, I want to find representation that isn't necessarily trying to, and this is perhaps an unrealistic dream, but I, I would like to find representation that that gets my voice as an artist, and doesn't necessarily want to pigeonhole me. You know, for example, I will never, I'm very into body justice and fat liberation.7 (1h 10m 30s):I'm not gonna even say body positivity anymore because it's been co-opted by a skinny white women, but I will never make a weight loss, commercial that's not happening. And that might be a problem for a commercial agent who meets me, you know what I mean? And so I, so yeah, I, I would like to find a team who, who gets me and really, you know, wants to, wants to see me succeed in that, in the, in that way,3 (1h 10m 59s):This relates pause to our conversation earlier, just about contracting versus expanding. And I think that my mindset for certain, and maybe other people too, is like, you know, it's like kind of like how I used to be with boyfriends. If, just, if, if anybody likes me that I have to go with them because there's not going to be anybody else that likes me. Right. When in reality, It seems like the, the way to think about it is, oh, they need me because I know what I'm doing. And I have this look and I've seen people who look like me in this kind of thing. And there'll be lucky to find me because I can solve a problem for them.3 (1h 11m 40s):That's not how I've ever thought about it. I've thought about it. Like, I hope they pick me, but they probably won't. So if anybody shows me any attention, even if I have to pay for it, then the bus. Yeah.1 (1h 11m 50s):I mean, I think that's so right on. And I will say that. And I, I, I was that way for, and I still am obviously that way, but I found a team. I love my team, but it took me a very long time. And it took me to 40, I dunno, 44 to do that or 43. And it took me going in literally and saying, this is me, here's my body of work. I look like this. I want, I came in, I went in with a list of things in a piece of paper and what I brought to the table and what I expected from a relationship.1 (1h 12m 35s):And I had to be prepared that they were going to say, no, thank you. Like, this is crazy. Fuck you. But they didn't say that instead. They said, we, we support you. We've looked at your stuff. We believe in you. And we want to work with you. And that was all right. And then I found my person at that place. And when she left, I followed her. So it really is about relationships, but it's like, it takes a long check. My therapist, this, it takes a long time to do the work. Like it is not an overnight

In the first Sunday of the Lenten season we begin our new sermon series to carry us through Easter, titled Including the Excluded. In the first week of this series Pastor Chris Jones discusses how God uses all of us and in so many important moments in the Bible has used what society would consider “nobodies” to fulfill his mission. In his sermon, A Podunk Town, A Teenage Girl, and Overlooked Nightshift Workers we can realize how important we all are to God no matter where we are in our spiritual journey's.

Episode 100 Episode number 100! Can you believe it?! It seems like only yesterday, we were nervously launching this podcast, wondering if anyone would listen, and here we are with 51,000 downloads, dozens of incredible guests, and so much more planned for 2022 and beyond. Thank you all for your incredible support. You are truly the best community on the internet. To celebrate this momentous occasion, we took some time to share our favorite recent facts, stories, and learnings. So if you want to learn about forests in the sky, insect superhighways, Olympic achievements, heartfelt wisdom, how to forgive, the clams who control Warsaw's water supply, and that time that Pepsi briefly became the 6th biggest military in the world, then you're in the right place.   Support this podcast on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/DowntheWormholepodcast   More information at https://www.downthewormhole.com/   produced by Zack Jackson music by Zack Jackson and Barton Willis    Transcript  This transcript was automatically generated by www.otter.ai, and as such contains errors (especially when multiple people are talking). As the AI learns our voices, the transcripts will improve. We hope it is helpful even with the errors. Zack Jackson  00:05 You are listening to the Down the wormhole podcast, exploring the strange and fascinating relationship between science and religion. This is our 100th episode. Oh Ray, which is why we're doing it live and not pre recorded. I mean, it's always done live. But you know what I mean, that clip of me at the beginning, which is why it's so unpolished here at the beginning, but it's our 100th episode, and we're super excited. And we're doing something totally different today. So everyone, just say your name as fast as possible at the same time, okay. Hurray, well, so after 100 episodes, hopefully you know who we are at this point. Today is going to be totally different instead of taking a topic and going into it, we are all coming here today with a fun fact or story or something that has filled our hearts with joy or wonder in the past. I don't know, I was gonna say in the past couple of months, but time makes no sense. In the world of COVID We have all been living in a wormhole for the past two years or maybe 12 years or who knows. So. So does anybody want to start? Or? Or do you want me to start? Ian Binns  01:27 Kendra razor 01:28 Andrew wants to start, Kendra Holt-Moore  01:28 I can start. But if you want to start back then No, go ahead. Just anything. Zack Jackson  01:35 Tell me go ahead Rachael Jackson  01:37 and wait, go ahead needles here. Zack Jackson  01:40 What happens when we don't schedule, Kendra Holt-Moore  01:43 I am really excited to share this because I I love Radiolab it's my other one of my favorite podcasts. And I recently learned on one of their recent episodes, that a scientist for years have been, you know, in the forest, they pay a lot of attention to like what's happening on the forest floor. And for many years, scientists didn't like put in a lot of effort, or they just didn't think that it was as important to be observing, studying what's happening up in the canopy of the trees. And, you know, in in recent years, like, there's a lot more stuff that you can like, read about and, you know, we know more about the canopy of trees, but scientists were like, you know, we were we're on the ground, we're closer to the dirt and the roots and the trunks. And so that's where a lot of that like early work was taking place. But I learned in this episode that there is a scientist, I can't remember her name, but she basically was one of the first people to discover that there is there are trees that grow in the canopy of trees. It's not turtles all the way down, it's trees all the way up. Zack Jackson  03:08 There are trees growing in. Kendra Holt-Moore  03:11 And, and that's how Radiolab put it up, not turtles all the way down, but trees all the way up. And I really love that I was thinking it's also kind of like the men and black conclusion of the world inside of a marble, or the Dr. Seuss story of a dandelion that has like a world living inside of the dandelion. Like we're just, you know, it's it's a great alternative of like the multiple worlds hypothesis. There's just trees living in their own ecosystem in the canopy of the forest, because there's dirt that gets trapped up in the canopy, like in between, like tree branches. And so one of the scientists she had proposed, I think it was for her dissertation to, to do work until like study the canopy. And her advisors were like, Okay, if you want to do that fine, but they weren't like super excited about it. And so she started, you know, doing her fieldwork and would climb up into the trees. And the first time that she noticed this, like other ecosystem in the canopy, she like was able to reach her hand into dirt up in the canopy, like she's up off the ground, but putting her hand in dirt. That was like putting your hand in dirt that's down on the literal ground. And I just think that is so cool. I didn't know that maybe maybe y'all are more informed about tree canopies than I am but I just found that to be a really cool thing because especially if you think about like really dense, dense like tropical forests where you you can't actually see what's going on up at the canopy like you have to, you have to go up in it to get perspective So it makes sense why we would not be super aware of the the canopy ecosystem or like the canopy soil. But it it's a somehow dirt. I mean, it makes sense to some degree like the way that wind, wind blowing through the forest and the density of the canopy, like trapping a lot of stuff. But dirt is one of those things. And so there's stuff that grows up there. And we just don't even know Zack Jackson  05:34 I have that happening in my front yard, we're just noticing that there's a, there's a tree, and like the branches come out. And there's like a little, I don't know, pocket area where they're their branch away, and that the ants had eaten away in that little spot there. And so all like the decomposed ant poop or whatever, had made just like little thing of dirt. And there was a tiny sapling growing out of there. And I pulled it out, because I was like, that's gonna kill my tree. But I'm just I didn't realize that was happening, like Ian Binns  06:05 another tree to save a tree. Kendra Holt-Moore  06:09 Way to go, wow, Zack Jackson  06:11 there's some ethical implications there. Kendra Holt-Moore  06:14 Wow, that's cool, though. Zack Jackson  06:16 That's pretty amazing. Ian Binns  06:18 Tree murder. Zack Jackson  06:19 Hey, Kendra, that reminds me of the do you know about the like the insect jet stream? That's up there. Like, very far Rachael Jackson  06:30 up. I do love the bug. Kendra Holt-Moore  06:32 I think I do know about Zack Jackson  06:34 I do love books. It's true. Kendra Holt-Moore  06:37 It's not well, like, oh, go ahead, Zack Jackson  06:40 be flying airplanes in the early days of aviation. And they're like, why are there bugs on our windshield? Aren't we very hot 1000s of feet up in the air? Like, I mean, like 5000 feet up in the air and there's insects. I saw what estimate that like, How much was it, like somewhere between three to 6 billion insects are flying over your head up in like the jet stream all summer. They'll they'll get like caught up in updrafts. And then the wind is just blowing constantly up there. And so they'll just like travel. And they'll just fly around up there. Until they get they fall down to earth. And they're so light that, you know, it doesn't hurt them. And these aren't just like flying insects, you'll have like ants and stuff thrown around. Kendra Holt-Moore  07:25 That's really cool. I wonder if it's the same path, or like trajectory that other things will get like caught up in those high air streams to like sand. Like I think this is like part of how the dirt gets in the cannabis. There's sand from, you know, deserts that will kick up and travel from, you know, like Africa to the Brazilian rainforest. And the tiny organisms that live on those pieces of sand, nourish the soil, and nourish the ocean, like provide sustenance, like in places that you wouldn't expect that sand to end up. Like, you might not even think that sand travels. But I wonder if it's a shared sort of trajectory of the insects and sand. It's just like, it's crazy. It's in the world. unaccessible inaccessible to our everyday experiences, but it's just one big one big ecosystem. Zack Jackson  08:26 Yeah, every time I'm up there, there, the windows are closed. So I don't Ian Binns  08:33 you don't know if the sands gonna pull you in the face and Zack Jackson  08:36 Nope, never done it. So my story I wanted to share. Well, first of all, I'm six foot three. How tall is everyone else? Ian Binns  08:45 5656 511 and three quarters. Zack Jackson  08:52 Okay, so all of you are children. Adam Pryor  08:56 But I'm five, nine. Zack Jackson  08:59 Girl about to do with five inches tall on my screen. Well, did you know that that on average, we in our generation are three inches taller than people were 100 years ago. might have heard that. It's true. And one of the reasons is because of German submarines. Rachael Jackson  09:21 Okay, that's gonna need some explanation. Yeah, Kendra Holt-Moore  09:25 I'm so glad. So technically, she didn't ask she's like demanded mark that Zack Jackson  09:36 I'm into it either way. So in the early 19 hundred's, people didn't eat a whole lot of meat. Right, because they didn't have modern refrigeration, meats expensive. It's expensive to raise them to all of that stuff. And so when people did eat meat, it was usually like canned sardines. That was the most commonly used meat in those days, at right, awful, most of the good sardines came from off the coast of France, and then off the coast of New England. So it's Atlantic based sardines were the best ones. And then suddenly, during World War One, there are German U boats in the Atlantic. And we didn't have the ability to know where they were all the time. And so people kind of freaked out and they were like, I'm not gonna fish anymore. I'm gonna get blown up. So they stopped fishing sardines, and there were no more sardines, and Americans loved sardines. So, overnight, almost this giant new industry started in Monterey, California, fishing for sardines out in the Pacific. And the reason why people don't normally eat Pacific, sardines is because they're awful. They're like, gross, and massive, and, and oily and disgusting. And if given the choice, Atlantic ones are always going to win. But then we didn't have a choice anymore. So this whole industry boomed in Monterey. And all these new fisheries went up, and they were taking in tons and tons and tons. And then the war ended. And then boom, the whole industry collapsed. They had all these new fisheries, they had all these new processing plants they had, they had all this new stuff that nobody wanted to buy anymore. And so nobody quite knew what to do until this industrious young man and Max Schaefer showed up with a novel idea. And he took these sardines and instead of canning them for human consumption, mashed them all up into a nasty fish paste, and then mix it with grain, and marketed it to farmers as cheap chicken food. Ian Binns  11:40 Sounds so good. Zack Jackson  11:43 And it was cheap. And it was so full of nutrients, because it was fish that the chickens all grew really big. This led to really fat chickens, which led to tender delicious chickens, which led to the chicken of tomorrow breeding competition in 1948, in which farmers around the country were invited to breed the chicken of tomorrow. And the chicken that one that is basically the modern roasting chicken, the one that can't really fly that has whose like skin is is like light colored and is easily plucked, and has large. Adam Pryor  12:27 The chicken with boobs so big, they can't fly. Zack Jackson  12:29 Exactly. Yeah, the chicken that we know and love and eat today came from that. So the consumption of chicken then skyrocketed and became a part of American culture, fried chicken and chicken breasts and all of that. We started eating more meat. And then we grew. And so the reason why modern Americans are three inches taller than their counterparts is because of German U boats in the Atlantic in the early 19 hundred's Rachael Jackson  13:01 that's pretty cool. Right? Because you're asking how tall we were? Years ago, I was obsessed with just records for no reason. Like, I would read the Guinness Book of World Records for fun. Kendra Holt-Moore  13:17 You know, that's not what I thought you were talking about there, but I like this better. Rachael Jackson  13:22 Okay, yeah. Now, I meant so five foot two was the average heights for women in about 100 years ago, right. Nowadays, it's five foot five. So it's so if we say older people are so short, that's true. They really are that much shorter than we are and has nothing to do with like osteoarthritis or because the you know, the discs between their vertebrae are thinning or anything like that they they literally are just shorter than we are Zack Jackson  14:04 should have eaten more chicken. Rachael Jackson  14:05 And so now what are How tall are people going to get 100 years from now Zack? Like if Zack Jackson  14:14 massive hundreds of feet, I think will be a race of monsters. And then the Lord will have to flood the earth in order to read us Rachael Jackson  14:23 only that's at least what we try to have a ladder and build a tower. Because Zack Jackson  14:30 know the people who made the ark. Who are those people who built the life sized Ark Ken Ham in them? They're building a tower of Babel. I know. That's literally the point of the story is you're not supposed to build it. Adam Pryor  14:46 You're building a tower of Babel that's the plan is it is it like a like you know, like a twilight zone like tower terror drop, like wow, like you get to go up and Kendra Holt-Moore  14:56 really miss the Ian Binns  14:58 levels. Yeah, Zack Jackson  15:01 I feel like if they complete it, I want to they've they've missed the point. But if they like leave the top intentionally undone, then perhaps I'm like, that might be fun. Rachael Jackson  15:12 You know, you sit down in a way that Ian Binns  15:14 I definitely want to share this episode with him. Rachael Jackson  15:16 Yeah, you you share it. You said that no way, like, the same way that Robin Williams did in one of his stand up comedies, by the way from like, 20 years ago, where he talked about, you know, touching the nipples of gorillas Zack Jackson  15:34 I think that's on par. Right? Tempting God and touching the nipples of gorillas, Rachael Jackson  15:40 you know, he had got to know what's gonna happen Adam Pryor  15:45 might be like a good activity for the top of the tower. Good. Wow. So that to Kenny, I will. Well, Zack Jackson  15:55 yeah, what if you weren't blocked? Ian Binns  15:56 I'm gonna do it from our purse or? Zack Jackson  16:00 Oh, yeah. Ian's personal account got blocked by Ken Ham. So last time, he wanted to share one of our episodes, he had to use the down the wormhole Twitter handle, because he's trying to get us blocked in him too. So thank you. It was a really Rachael Jackson  16:14 good Astronics were taken Ian Binns  16:17 at Jennifer Wiseman, are there poking fun at the you know, the new telescope up there. And so I felt like you know, help him out a little bit. And say, if you want to be really cool about it, listen to this episode. Zack Jackson  16:30 That's right. That's right. Well, Ken Ham, you're welcome on this show, at any point, Adam Pryor  16:36 oh, Gorilla nipples, Ian Binns  16:39 on the top of the new tower of tower that you're building. I'm still trying to figure out what it is I've learned that I want to share. Rachael Jackson  16:51 I don't I don't have anything that that fun. Um, I've just taken some time away from the worlds and just delved into my hobbies. And so I think at this point, y'all know that I like to cross stitch. So I cross stitch, like so many different space things, I can certainly share a picture of it, it was really awesome, especially brain freeze black holes, and different nebulae, and it was just really fun. Zack Jackson  17:30 But, oh, the Pillars of Creation orgeous Rachael Jackson  17:33 I really enjoy the Pillars of Creation. I have been like, desperately following what's going on with web. And so it's just so unbelievably exciting to witness this thing that costs so many more dollars than than anyone ever thought it was possible. And that gives me hope for humanity. Right. So and, and being Jewish, and living in a place where Christianity dominates and not just your run of the mill Christianity, but like, you will believe kind of Christianity and to see that. Yeah, exactly. To to watch that. Adam Pryor  18:19 It's gonna be what, Zack? Zack Jackson  18:22 I'm offended. Do you imagine that? I'm like storebrand Christianity? Rachael Jackson  18:30 Not at all. Not at all. Adam Pryor  18:32 Okay, good. But I think you could use that in a scary way. Rachael Jackson  18:35 Yeah, Tower of Babel. Go on. It got pushed back. So for anyone that wasn't really following the it was supposed to launch on the 22nd. I mean, it was supposed to launch at various times. And then they were smart, and they didn't make it launch. And then they they decided to launch it on December 25. I was like Merry Christmas Jews, like, cuz the Jewish Christmas is fast food and movie. Things open. But it's like, Yes, I can watch this. Like, that's the best, it was the best. So watching that, and then having it unfold a couple of weeks, like it made it. And now knowing that somebody did really good math and made sure that there was extras, right. So if any of you have ever gone on a road trip, I was certainly thinking about this. Because we're looking at electrical cars. It's like, well, how far can we really go and since there's no no stations where you could like fuel up your your electrical car, you can really only go a very short distance in most parts of the country. So you then say, Okay, well, how far can I go? And then you give yourself a little bit of buffer room because you don't want to be stuck there. Well, someone over at NASA and when I say someone, I'm sure that it was many, many teams of people said well, we want to make sure that it's kind of get there, right, it's going to get to L two. We don't really need it to stop and so they just put extra fuel But they did a really great job. And instead of it possibly lasting for 10 years, they think they now have so much fuel it might last for 20 years. And that's just I didn't hear that far out. And it's just really exciting that they have so much that it was good fuel usage on the way there, that they have almost doubled the ability to live and send better. So and Zack Jackson  20:23 so it would only be able to live for 20 years, or could it Outlast that? Does it have the power? No, Rachael Jackson  20:28 I think it's probably going to depend on what signals they send it, and what technology we come up with. But it looks like probably only only in air quotes, you know, 20 years. And you know, Zack Jackson  20:43 it's Hubble's going all Rachael Jackson  20:44 right, but Hubble, especially if you have read the book handprints on Hubble, you'll know, fascinating book, by the way. Hubble is so different than Webb, and pretty much everything else that came before it. The concept with Hubble is that it could be repairable in space. But that's what made it so unique and so challenging to build is that they had to constantly go over and over and say like, Can an astronaut actually attach themselves to this, right? Like, where do you put the foothold because there's no torque, if you're not holding on to anything, you're just like, off into space with no gravity, you can't actually use a wrench. So what do you do. And because they made the concept of this being repairable in space, they could make it so much better than it is, well, web is not going to be repairable in space, because it's a little far. So whatever it is, is what it is. So everyone was holding their collective breath for all of everything to unfurl, and then it did beautifully. And they're still calibrating it. So it's still gonna be like another 10 ish weeks until things are fully calibrated, and really sending pictures. But that that's just sort of my, it's not really a story. It's just I think that one of the things that I look at here is all of these, let's go and preach your style here. All of these extras that they put into it, the buffers that they build in, like, we can totally do that in our lives. Like we can build in buffer for times, we can build in buffer for gas, we can build in buffer for crying. Not that I've been doing that at all. Like we can just build in these buffers for each other and ourselves. And I think it's beautiful. And we decided, like it took so many governments to put web up there and we worked together and I am so a utopian universe kind of person. Right? Star Trek and Marvel all the way. Screw you DC and Star Wars. Oh, I know that. But this Ian Binns  22:49 DC thing you didn't have to throw both of you did? Rachael Jackson  22:51 We did. It has that that that nugget of hope and humanity and we put so much money into it. It's insane. And if we can do that, nothing functional. That's Darn it. I thought Ian Binns  23:11 the force. Rachael Jackson  23:14 Okay, I'm just gonna sit here and wait. And I don't know if any of this gets recorded. Zack Jackson  23:18 Oh, you're moving against the freezer. Oh, there she is. Rachael Jackson  23:22 Oh, you're moving again. Okay, she Zack Jackson  23:25 froze during her idea. Thank Rachael Jackson  23:26 you. So anyway, yay, us. And perhaps we could use all of that money to give stable Internet to Podunk places like where I live, that'd be great. Zack Jackson  23:41 Well, I did hear that some solar flare interference, sort of a deal knocked out like a couple dozen Starlink satellites recently. Rachael Jackson  23:49 Is that a problem? Is that really the problem? Zack Jackson  23:54 I mean, I don't think Starlink internet it's very expensive right now. Rachael Jackson  23:59 I think it's that we just live in the middle of nowhere and have bad internet today. So that's, that's, that's that's my story. Ian Binns  24:06 I feel like Adam should follow up with something. Rachael Jackson  24:09 I think so too, because he has to bring it down. Like I've got all this like ideal. I gotta be Ben. So Adam. Zack Jackson  24:17 Already reboot. Kendra, Kendra Holt-Moore  24:19 Adam, are you going to talk about web because I almost shared a story that I thought maybe you would talk about but it's actually something that I learned indirectly. From you through Chad. I love this. Oh, you're not going to talk about that. Then I want to say that you should say you can Adam Pryor  24:35 you can say it. Go ahead. I Zack Jackson  24:36 have a story about clams that I can share too. Kendra Holt-Moore  24:40 So web then clans then Adam. Wrapping us up. Great. Ian still has listening. Zack Jackson  24:47 We've got time. We're only halfway through. We've got time. Kendra Holt-Moore  24:51 Um, okay. Well, two things I want to share. The first thing is I I'm really happy that we're talking about web because the other day I brought up The Webb telescope in my class, and all my students were like, Oh, is that? And I was like, Are you kidding me right now? No NASA nerds. And they were all like, like, everyone shaking their heads. And I was like, this is this is this is unacceptable. And so I sent them an email later that was completely, like, unrelated, you know, it was about class. And then the end of my email was like, also, just for fun, please go read about the Gobi school. But I, I have been so inspired by keeping up with this, that I put a little like anecdote about it in one of my dissertation chapters, because I'm writing about off. But I think what's really interesting about the kind of all and like, inspiration and energy that people feel around the Webb telescope, is that it's not just what it could do for us. It's not just that, like, How amazing would it be, if we learn all this stuff, by, you know, being able to see the infrared light and knowing about black holes and exploring other planets, like, there's a lot of potential that's amazing and inspiring of like, all these people working together to such a precise degree that we've had this, like international success. So that's like, on the one hand, but on the other hand, I feel like it's also really easy to get caught up in the story and want to follow it so closely, because there's so much at stake because if it fails, right, that's also a pretty major, like, we're either going to see human achievement, you know, at its pinnacle, or we're going to watch $10 billion, just flushed down the drain. And either way, it's kind of on spiraling. But the other thing I wanted to share, which is again, me stealing something that Adam actually learned recently, I don't know where you learn this, so you can share that. But apparently, like the Collaborate, like everyone knows the collaboration of the telescope team, like it was a, you know, a lot of people involved. But one of the people who contributed to the design of the telescope was an origami artist who worked with scientist to come up with the the design and the folding, you know, technique of the telescope to get it to fit inside of the rocket, so that it could be compact enough, and go far enough. And then only once it was outside of the rocket unfold the way that it did in, you know, with all its like, single point failure, possibilities that it overcame. But it was an origami artist who, like inspired scientists, by just like looking at how, you know, you fold up paper origami. And I just think that's so cool. And what a what an interesting what an inspiring testament to interdisciplinary work, which is why I think Adam was talking about this to chat, but for those of us in academia, who are all about interdisciplinary Ness. This is a perfect example because it's the humanities, the the artists, working together with the scientists to make something beautiful, functional, and you know, hopefully not disastrous, but something amazing. Rachael Jackson  28:37 It did unfold that I have to say, awesome, and I'm going to add that if anyone actually does origami, you can download the origami Webb telescope itself. Like they created the Webb telescope origami pattern. That's awesome. So just want to add that. Did they really? Yes. Would you like the links, John? Ian Binns  29:00 Yes, I do. Because John loves to do origami stuff. Yeah, I think I need that thing. Rachael Jackson  29:08 It's pretty amazing. It's pretty amazing. Ian Binns  29:15 Alright, Adam, what are you gonna do to bring us down? Adam Pryor  29:18 I thought Zack, I wanted to talk about Rachael Jackson  29:20 clam also Zack, are you gonna talk about other NASA thing? Ian Binns  29:24 I mean, I thought why more NASA stuff. Zack Jackson  29:26 I feel like I feel like several people are are hinting something to me and I'm not getting most of them. I know, my fun fact about clams was just that the water supply of Warsaw Poland is controlled by eight clams. What? Yo, yeah, no, it's true. They are the people. Okay. The people in charge of the Water Department found that clams were better at detecting pollution than any of their their artificial sensors. So they took eight clams. And they are in a tank, that the water comes from the treatment plant and it goes into the tank before it goes out to the people. And on top of the clams, they have basically hot glue to spring and put that in front of a sensor. So when the water gets too polluted, the clams close. And then the thing at the end of the spring touches the sensor and it's it turns off the water to Warsaw. And when the water is clean, they open back up again and the water turns on. And those clams are replaced every three months. And then they're put back in the pond. And they're given their March so that they don't get used again. And they have to go through a period of training in order to be to make sure that their senses are that's what I want to know Ian Binns  30:50 is the trainer. Eight clan Zack Jackson  30:53 clan Waterson Yeah. Yeah. Adam Pryor  30:57 I mean, essentially worse. I made clam thermostats. That's really what happened here. Zack Jackson  31:01 Yeah. And they work that they call it like there's a fancy word for bio monitoring. Huh? Adam Pryor  31:10 Yeah, that's just an easy way to say clam thermos. Zack Jackson  31:13 Yeah. I mean, it's a canary in the coal mine. But, but it controls the whole water supply. Adam Pryor  31:17 Yeah. Do they have like, like, does it can it like, Shut partway off? Like, you know, for clams today, we're close to your own rescue Zack Jackson  31:25 boil wars, like Minority Report. Right? Adam Pryor  31:29 But not when the clams are in the tank. Zack Jackson  31:31 Right? Don't do that. Don't do that. Adam Pryor  31:36 Because then train more. Zack Jackson  31:39 So what do you got? Adam? Adam Pryor  31:40 I want to make sure I understood the Zack Jackson  31:45 so this would be this would be like, textbook vintage, Adam, for you to come on and be like, Look, I got your question, but I did not. Well, and I would like to restate this in a way. Adam Pryor  31:56 Nine times out of 10. That's true. But so I'm supposed to come up with a story that has been inspiring to know how I learned Kendra Holt-Moore  32:06 just recently Zack Jackson  32:08 learned anything Adam Pryor  32:10 interesting. Just finding anything interesting or fun that I learned? Zack Jackson  32:14 Or inspirational or tragic? Or like or, or or? Okay. Well, I mean, the Sixers just got James Harden. You could we could talk about that. I talked Adam Pryor  32:27 about that. No, um, well, I guess. Zack Jackson  32:36 Are you looking around the room for inspiration? Kendra Holt-Moore  32:39 Do you mean something to you to talk about? No, Adam Pryor  32:42 no, I'm thinking like, cuz I I'm trying to say what to choose. Like. I mean, I could choose any number of depressing items. But that feels a little on the nose. Because a lot of what I've been learning is about the Kansas legislature right now. And that Oh, terrible. I don't think anyone should be subjected to that. Although I'm pretty sure it should be disbanded because they're useless. Coal coal. I've been Reading a lot about gerrymandering, but that also feels pretty, pretty dark. Even for me, that feels kind of dark, especially which state are living in Kansas is trying to put Lawrence inside the big first. If you don't know what the big first is, it's all of Western Kansas. And let me just say Lawrence is not in western Kansas. Right. So it makes this big U shaped come down and get Lawrence and put them into the big first. It's not political way. Yeah, these are the things I'm Reading about. Yeah, no, no, um, oh, wait, no, I have a heavy one. Hold on. Wait. Well, I mean, it's not happy. You happy, happy, happiest everything? I think it's happy. Um, hang on, man. I'm pulling it out to a low bar. So I was Reading this morning. This made me legitimately happy this morning. So I'm, in the times, there was this piece by Rabbi Lauren Holtz Blatt from Agoudas Israel congregation in Washington, DC. And she was writing about the whole debacle. Hmm. Feels like the correct term. Rachael Jackson  34:28 The misses with Whoopi Goldberg one, okay. Adam Pryor  34:31 Oh, yes. Yeah, right. Um, and, you know, if you're not aware of like, you know, Google it, you can find that, um, I was a little depressed the number of people who didn't know that that occurred, and I'm like, that says something about, you know, how Zack might haunt people. But what she wrote about in her piece, which I thought was really, really beautiful, and I'm going to do butcher the pronunciation and then you correct Rachel. So she wrote about tshuva should I get my accent right? Oh, yes. And as a process of Reading, renouncing, confessing reconciling and making amends right. And then she talks about to Shiva Shalimar complete Yep. Right this idea of complete to Shiva right where like, when you come into the same situation you act differently, right as knowing that this is like actually come to its peace. And then she makes this nice reference to tikun olam at the end of the article that like unless you're Jewish, you probably don't catch. I thought it was really brilliant. But I what, what I found, like, deeply hopeful about this idea is how generous a way of responding to that situation. That is, and that doesn't happen anymore. No one is that generous with other people today. And I kinda like that. At heart, I think there's something really beautiful about being able to write in the face of all horrible racism, that this is the kind of response we should be offering to one another. And it makes me more patient, generally, not specifically towards them. But generally, I like the idea of it. And what was the article? It's her opinion piece she wrote. It's called in the Jewish tradition, the words we choose matter. I just thought it was. It was really beautifully. I mean, it's beautifully written, like a whole wholesale, but I just the fact that that was how she decided to wrap this up and suggest people might engage. What has been a really, in some ways, underreported, in my opinion, and also poorly reported. Event. Is, is, I think, really helpful. Rachael Jackson  37:27 That's lovely. And I appreciate that you, you also brought it up. Yeah, it's definitely one of those things. Right? In Judaism, there is definitely that idea of if we believe that each person has the ability to mess up, and then fix their mess ups. How much more? How much more can we really ask of a person? And should we not then treat each other with that ability? So it's, I mean, she's she's farmer, erudite and Better Spoken than I also she's, she was writing instead of speaking, so she had the gift of editing. But no, it's really, it's wonderful. Right. And I think one of the challenges that we have, especially as Jews as like, Well, that was under reported. What about mouse? And what about, right, the synagogue shooting and in Texas, like, or hostage holding, not shooting, right? Like, how many of these things do we really want to be like, Hey, you didn't say that enough. So I like that there's this positive that you that Adam, you picked up this like, really good way of looking at this story. Thanks. Also to really great story. Adam Pryor  38:43 Yeah. Off to read that. There, I did something hopeful. Rachael Jackson  38:48 You shared 100 episode, you're like doing something different. Adam Pryor  38:55 I gotta flip things around. Zack Jackson  38:58 Keep it fresh. Just take us another three years to get through another positive. Adam Pryor  39:02 I mean, seems highly likely. Zack Jackson  39:06 Maybe the birth of your fourth child will springs there and into your life. Just, Adam Pryor  39:10 I mean, I probably won't be there. Let's just be real. 75% That's not Yeah. Ian Binns  39:21 If you're a professional athlete, maybe you make a lot of money. Adam Pryor  39:27 That's correct. C is for degree. So you tell your students. Yeah, I get degrees. They're struggling in my class. And they're like, 68. I'm like, Hey, you only got to get a degree. Well, sometimes I say that to majors, too. Not too many recently. Just a while. There. There were a couple. Ian Binns  39:54 I think the thing I want to talk about is I always appreciate The excitement around seen people on athletes at the Olympics. You know, there's always the, there's always issues with, you know how the Olympics are chosen. And you know, I'm not dismissing any of that what I like to see and I love to have the Olympics on is to just see their excitement that they have while they're doing something that they've spent an incredibly long time preparing for, right? And then even the the, like, good sportsmanship they tend to have for the most part, I mean, there's always issues but just how much they still celebrate each other because they realize that they're seeing something great. Like, it's really I just, it's very inspiring for me to see that to see people who are able to do some of these things that after they've done an event, you're just like, I don't understand how that just happened. Like how did that person just do that? You know, tricks, when you especially right now is skiing, you know, the aerials that they do, and stuff like that freestyle skiing, or whatever it's called. But even watching, like the level of excitement that occurs with cross country skiing, and biathlon, I'm not allowed to watch that. That's fun, curly, curly. It's fun, because they'll do things and everyone just be like, how did that just happen? Yeah, man. It's just it's so amazing to me that they're that far from the end. And they're able to like thread it between two of the rocks to hit this exact spot that they need to hit. It's just really cool. So that's kind of what's been going on in our house lately. Zack Jackson  41:32 And watch what was impossible, just like a decade ago, right? Someone would land like, like when Tony Hawk hit the like the 900. Right? Or whatever it was back in don't 20 years ago. That was that was mind blowing X Games explode. That and because there's nothing now it's like, oh, we figured it out. And now we can do it. We've progressed. Humans are amazing. Yeah. Rachael Jackson  41:54 What we asked him to do is really impressive. Ian Binns  41:58 Yeah, it's very, it's very interesting just to kind of watch these athletes who, as I said, that have dedicated their lives to perfecting what it is that they do. But to build on the Olympic theme, how about this? I was the first I now don't remember her name. But it was the first woman figure skater to land a quad. The Quad jump Kendra Holt-Moore  42:24 in the donation. Adam Pryor  42:26 Players that say you mean the dough for Oh, no. Ian Binns  42:28 Was she a doper? Yep. Did she test positive for doping? Yep. Oh. Does she really Rachael Jackson  42:39 do with extra hormones? Yeah, I mean, Adam Pryor  42:44 well, that's, I gotta say, right? Like, as you are seeing all this, I can't stop myself now. Now. We're gonna go for it right like Hopi and they like each other in this kind of thing. And I'm like, Yeah, you know what I see the instrumentalisation of 15 year olds by countries for profit. Ian Binns  43:00 See, this is the reason why I just get rid of that part. Kendra Holt-Moore  43:05 And I appreciate it because it parties. I love watching the clips. I watched the snowboarders yesterday and was like, Yeah, I'm gonna do that. I'm not, I'll never do anything remotely close to that. But it does. It makes you feel like you know, just before before Adam just ruins it. I just want to affirm your love of watching Olympic athletes. Rachael Jackson  43:28 Well, I'm I'm going to like switch teams here a little bit. And I'm totally with Adam. I can't stand Kendra Holt-Moore  43:37 I mean, you're you're not saying I just want it took them a while to think of something to share. have let them have this. Ian Binns  43:47 I'm not at all just dismissing the fact that you know, these that people are taking advantage of or anything like that. What I'm saying is that when you do see an athlete, excel at something that's exciting from even like, the NFL, right? Rachael Jackson  44:00 We'll never refuse. 100% Refuse to watch the NFL. It's just gladiators in the 20th century, and it's abusive in so many different ways and racist in unbelievable magnitudes. I watch the football. Ian Binns  44:15 A couple years ago, there was a marathoner who broke the two hour barrier. Are you gonna rain on that parade too? For me? Are we gonna be okay with that? Well, being Adam Pryor  44:23 surrounded by a whole team of people, was that really a good way to run a marathon fastest your hours? Ian Binns  44:31 It just could happen. Zack Jackson  44:34 The marathon is my favorite. Because like to home without why? Because the guy ran 26 miles from Marathon to Athens fell dead. And then we were like, We're gonna flex on this guy. And now we do it all the time. And we're just like, hey, one guy died doing this. Let's do it. And like, the net Great. That's Got it. Also, fun fact, the president of the Olympics for life for all time is King Herod the Great. Did you know that Ian Binns  45:13 I did not. The Olympics Zack Jackson  45:14 had fallen under disrepair. There was no money for it. They did. They barely happened. And Herod was travelling through the Greek area in 12 BC. Yeah, he was there in 12 BC. And he went, and he was like, Wow, this sucks. And he's like, here, if I give you tons of talents, are you going to be able to make this great? And they were like, Yeah, and he's like, then go zoos. Here you go, here's a ton of money. And they revitalize the Olympics. And it became a big thing again, and he was named president of the Olympics for life in perpetuity. And so his statue was there. And he is for all eternity. The president of the Olympics. I mean, it does make a lot of sense. I know Christians love to hate the guy, but Rachael Jackson  45:59 it does make a lot of sense, right? Like, he's this is how messed up the Olympics are. Right? He's the guy that decides to kill his whole family. So it Adam Pryor  46:10 I think they should start leading the Parade of Nations with a sketch. point home. Zack Jackson  46:16 I mean, do it. You know, one time Cleopatra came to visit, and she was like, showing them up. And he was like, he went to his guy. And he's like, can we kill her right now? And he's like, You can't kill Cleopatra. And he's like, but she's here. We can kill her now. Right? And they're like, You can't kill Cleopatra. And he almost did it. Because he's nuts. Right, but he loved the Olympics. Yeah. Rachael Jackson  46:39 It could have just been the metaphor. We ran on. Ian Binns  46:41 We're gonna go watch the Olympics. Fun. Let's go watch the bath one because I'm certain on the next lap, they're gonna all turn the rifles on each other. Like Adam and Rachel want Adam Pryor  47:06 to take solace in the fact that you got Rachel and I think that's the takeaway. Ian Binns  47:12 Oh, that person's head fell off when they land. There. Oh, no, that guy's a racist. Rachael Jackson  47:20 You know, it's just trauma. It's when I see the skiers. I can't see this gear. So no. Oh, yeah, I broke my body. I broke my brain. Oh, I totally, totally broke my brain Zack Jackson  47:31 that was in a previous episode. Everything. Ian Binns  47:34 We'll talk more about, like, you know, running not doing no, they cheat too. So no, javelin maybe someone hasn't been pierced lately. Kendra Holt-Moore  47:45 Well, setting aside just like the terribleness of human nature. Yeah, I, I wanted to also add, um, so like, I haven't really watched the Olympics flick very carefully. This year. I usually don't, I usually just like watch clips of things. So the stuff that I've seen is like ice skating clips, and like snowboarder clips. But I've been I was just thinking, the last couple of days about Simone Biles, and just the whole phenomenon of the twisties. Because a lot of the stuff that I'm looking at for like the snowboarders and ice skaters, you know, it's like a lot of tricks, a lot of jumping, and flipping and all of that. And I just, it is really amazing, especially knowing my own very limited abilities. It's like not an athlete person, but who has worked so hard to have, like very basic snowboarding skills, that it's, it feels so good when you can get to a point where your body just does. And that's kind of what you have to do to like, do it. Well, it's like the whole problem of the twisties. And like, when you start to think about what you are trying to do athletically, it messes with you and so it's just really interesting, like giving in to just your body. And I it's it's really like a very meditative experience and you have to be skilled, of course, but it's just such a such an interesting part of living in a body when we are so easily like distracted in our heads. So to separate those experiences, Ian Binns  49:19 you bring it up smoking balls, you know, the last Olympics, the Summer Olympics watching, especially being that your daughter Ellie is a gymnast, right? It's an even recently talking about you know, and so, I've always been impressed and admired have always admired Simone Biles, I think you know her what she embraced her struggles with her own. Her mental health journey I thought made her even more impressive. But when you talk again about someone who's become like an expert at what it is they do, like the things that she can do, is just mind boggling to me like what she is capable of as an athlete. Just her athletic ability, right? But even talking with Ellie Avella explaining to me that we talked about, you know, the other day that Ellie had a competition last week and met. Mary Lou Retton. Right, honey, who did le meet last week, Mary Lou Retton. Yeah, so she met Mary Lou retina at a competition last week. And it was really cool to hear about it. And I was kind of saying like, Oh be, you know, someone else get a 10 good Simone get a 10. And her response was, is that she her strength and power is so great, that the skills that she does that gets her such high scores would not wouldn't make it I think, very challenging forever to get a perfect score. Because you know, the way the score is done, that level is very different than the standard level, but that her power that Simone Biles has is just that much better than most anyone else in the world. That that's why be challenging for her become to get a perfect score because she challenges herself to that level. Does that make sense? Like she could land thing if she did Rachael Jackson  50:59 what other competitors did or if she did what other competitors did, she would get a perfect score, but because she pushes herself to make it harder. Ian Binns  51:07 And that's what raises like her ability to get even higher scores those because they realize that we have to change the scoring because of the tricks and the things that she's able to do the skills that she's able to do me that we have that scoring has changed, Miss fascinate, right. Zack Jackson  51:23 They had to outlaw some moves that she did, because no one else could do it. Ian Binns  51:28 They call it the Biles. I mean, she's got several moves on several different apparatus apparatus that are named after her, which is also on the land it Kendra Holt-Moore  51:37 just let her do it and let her just went all the time. Because yeah, pretty cool. Ian Binns  51:41 Right? Thank you, Kendra for bringing that one up. Because now I feel better again. Rachael Jackson  51:46 And I don't want to I don't want to poopoo the athletes themselves. They're doing amazing things, just the institutions they're in. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So just just to clarify, I don't mean to make any athletes upset. I think that what they're doing is truly incredible. Because I Ian Binns  52:01 would love to get Simone on here. Zack Jackson  52:05 Yeah, yeah. And if any Olympic athletes or regular listeners of the podcast I'd love to have you on to have you on Jake's, especially if you're in the by athalon would love to learn more about how that Aikido? Yes, that's one of my absolute favorite and Ian Binns  52:17 ensures my favorite winter sport to watch is potentially bad. Yeah. Or I Rachael Jackson  52:22 love calm you go. I'm your heart rate slow enough after doing this incredible thing that you can shoot steady. Ian Binns  52:30 That's impressive. So I'm Rachael Jackson  52:33 so American. Zack Jackson  52:34 They're like, yeah, here's a cool sport. How can we make it better? aren't that good at it? Yeah. What we're not good at a gun sport. And Ian Binns  52:43 we're not nearly as good as the countries, then the Canadians think they beat us every time Zack Jackson  52:50 unacceptable. So we're nearing the end here, buddy. And we're nearing the end here. And I love I want to, there we go. I want to say thank you to all of you, all the four of you. And thank you to myself as well. Because you all are incredible. And it has been a minute since we've had all of us here. And it has felt so good. Just to be here. For this time. I want to thank everyone at home or in the car or in the gym or wherever it is that you're listening. Now, those of you who have listened to all 100 episodes, and those of you who this might be your first You are wonderful people as well. I would invite you to check out the down the wormhole conversations group on facebook and join us there. We've got some. It's really fun to be able to talk with folks on there. And yeah, you can check us out on Patreon as well if you'd like to support the show. Does anybody have any closing stories or thoughts or fun facts you want to share before we call it a day? Rachael Jackson  53:52 I think Zack you should share the story of the person that works at NASA. It's a quick little Zack Jackson  54:00 it is a quick little story NASA has let me let me pull up the Kendra Holt-Moore  54:08 while Zack is looking that up, I'd encourage everyone to go look up whales, bubble netting to catch their fish. Because that's, 54:18 that's amazing. Zack Jackson  54:20 I'd also encourage people to look up the story of how Pepsi briefly in the 80s became the sixth largest military in the world. Ian Binns  54:29 I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Zack Jackson  54:31 That's a fun story as well, right? Rachael Jackson  54:33 That's homework, Pepsi military in the 80s. Zack Jackson  54:39 Basically, and here we go. In the 50s. They were trying to make peace between the Soviet Union and America. And so Eisenhower put together this American National Exhibition in Moscow, and he sent Nixon over there and Nixon is not a nice person. And so Nixon and Khrushchev are talking and then they start fighting about capitalism and communism. And so the CEO of Pepsi sees them fighting and steps in there. And he's like, Here you go. And it gives Khrushchev, a Pepsi, and he drinks it and he goes, damn, or whatever the equivalent Russian is, this is amazing. We have to have this. The problem was there was all of these, you know, trade issues. And not everyone accepted Soviet currency. And so Pepsi didn't want to do this transaction. So they signed a deal in which the Soviet Union would purchase Pepsi with vodka. And that was their agreement for like, 30 years. So then in the late 80s, the agreement was expiring. And Pepsi was like, we don't want to get paid in vodka anymore, what else you got? And they were like, well, you still don't want to take our money. So here's what we have. And Pepsi in exchange for $3 billion dollars worth of Pepsi products, gave the Pepsi corporation 17 submarines, a cruiser a frigate and a destroyer. Which then for that amount of time made them the sixth largest military in the world. Pepsi then flipped all of that to a Swedish scrap recycling company and made back the money. But for that period of time, Pepsi was the sixth largest military in the world. So that's my fun Pepsi fact. But anyway, every single thing that goes up into space that goes up into a habitable space, so anything that goes up into the, into the space station or in a in a ship that has humans in it has to pass the sniff test, literally, from a man called George Aldrich is the chief sniffer of NASA. And anything that goes up there has to be smelled by him. And then he has to approve it or not, because they they need somebody with a very sensitive nose to smell if like, is this going to be awful to be locked in a room with this? So if you want to get something sent to space, it's got to be sniffed by nostril Damas. So if that column Adam Pryor  57:03 I hope they quarantined him for a long time, so I didn't get COVID Zack Jackson  57:06 right how awful would that Kendra Holt-Moore  57:08 would that's a client he Rachael Jackson  57:09 needs to have insurance on his You had one Adam Pryor  57:11 job. I seems like you could train clamps to do this. Zack Jackson  57:19 I don't know if you know how smell works. But Ian Binns  57:23 I just looked that up, you know, nostril Damas because I saw that you put in my chat, Rachel. And I saw I typed that into Google and now that now that does come up as the second story. Second thing don't click on the first one with the Urban Dictionary and Rachael Jackson  57:43 you're not that is not this is not safe for work portion. Do not don't talk about that. Click Ian Binns  57:50 on that link. It is definitely NSFW. Not Safe For Work if you don't know. Rachael Jackson  57:56 Yeah, and that's dw.com like Ian Binns  58:00 Well, the thing is, is that I started looking at it. While right before Zacks are talking, I thought myself Adam Pryor  58:07 Where the heck is this story? 58:09 Like they have nothing to do with each other. Like oh my gosh, this is so funny. Ian Binns  58:14 Kendra, are you looking it up right now? Rachael Jackson  58:17 No, don't don't Zack Jackson  58:19 just dear listener, don't don't worry about urban dictionary and teenagers putting crazy in there that they have nobody's gonna want to look at this. Don't worry about it. Instead, you can search for George Ulrich Aldrich, NASA employee g4. Rachael Jackson  58:37 If you're that, you know you can go back and listen to the rest of our other podcasts either for the first time or another time. Zack Jackson  58:45 Literally 99 other episodes you can listen to. Rachael Jackson  58:48 Did exactly do not go to Urban Dictionary go to D TW. Zack Jackson  58:52 Hey go that's a great closer, Greg sign off

Your earbuds will pass out before half-time is over on a combination of hot wings and Tecate when Big Lucks, Ol' Blue Eyes, Schwartz and Chumahan pancake tackle Brian Flores's lawsuit against the NFL refusing to hire Black Coaches, etc., what the lawsuit actually says, Bill Billecheck's surprise text, the infamous $100K to throw games from the owner, then turning into the masterful Schwartz-pick for SuperBowl LVI, Sean's recovery from the Niner Downer, which then turns into a Motivation show to get you further on your game and Schwartz confronting the inner demons left in the wake of his Father's exit out of his life, LIFE'S TEN YARD FIGHT is in this episode. Real talk.Send your crazy shit to: hluckshow@gmail.comNFL masterclass to prepare for the Superbowl: https://www.hardluckshow.com/podcast/episode/2d447f00/hls-ep-272-antonio-brown-wtfhttps://www.hardluckshow.com/podcast/episode/1c5e44f8/hls-ep-268-john-madden-boomTRANSCRIPTHLS: Ep. 284: SB LVI, Flores NFL Lawsuit & Father/Son InnerworkSpeakerSpeakerSpeakerSpeakerSpeakerAnd you know what? I might next week meeting myself just because I don't want to affect your audio. You know what, and see Brian right now and we're going to get them on. And then we're going to find out what time he's coming on. It might've been Spain. We were playing a lot of spades at that time. I don't remember a card game named Queens, but it's very possible.You can remember a little details like that, that I don't, and the odds of being stoned was really high. So, but I do remember going to the bar. That's not true. And I can't remember. Brian might have Brian. Oh,Brian Stevens put the bottom of it against the top of that. There you go. It's on speaker. Is it on speaker? Put the bottom of your phone, the edge. Please leave your message for 4 1 5 3 6 8 8 3 5 2. No, I bought her a car. So she's leaving. Well, no, that's not true. She, I let her use my car and then some things happen.She had a friend of hers died and then she went kind of weird and I had to go back and get my car. That's all. Hmm. Hmm.All right, let's go. Ready? Yeah, we ready? Yup. You ready? I've been New York. Made it 20, 22. I got it with the hard luck podcast. No, this is worse with the hard luck show. Come check us out Monday, Wednesday, Friday, bitch, bitch.good morning as rom the hard luck show your host, lucky to beat you out. That's right. Certified west SAC. She can cross from me.bone American, Indian, Southern California, and elegant barbarian. Also known as the come on. Come on,come on, come on,come on,come on.blue eyes. Yeah. So your hero, Sean Lewis certified audio professional, uh, engineerand I can't believe it either.ordinary thing walking onextraordinary show runner, right back up bird on old man, Mr. Brianfella, me to reintroduce myself.yeah. It's Ali on the visuals. You already know. Yeah. You know what time it is? Come on over here now, Robert wafer get on over here. So the one in my pocket, come here and get it. Strawberry away. Huck's pocket. All right. That's not true now. Oh, Brian said I'm driving. I'll call you soon. Oh, okay. That's not true.I'll wait to get that guy back on here, man. Oh, he's coming on. What do we got? Whoa, I know you'd be more excited this morning. The morning. Oh, wait in the morning. But I know that Sean would be more excited about this show. Had his Niners on the deed last week. Hey man, this is in a beat. Listen guys, wait a minute.Stop. Maybe Sean say by the bell. What's up brother. Where are you? Bottom of the dude. I have your number locked in that yet. So I didn't know. It was fucking texting you, calling you like, who is this man? How has that supposed to make me feelcoming to LA? I'm trying to carry your ass and all of a sudden, you don't know me. Yeah. Brian, what's up, man. You, what are you doing? And how are you? How's your foot. I was my foot. How's the foot. And how are you feeling? I'm on fucking, you know, doing what I'm doing, trying to survive. What do you know? I got you Mohan.Sean. We're all here. What, what are you actually doing though? Bronx? Like, oh, he got jokes. Hey, I just saw your car. Get. Uh, Hey, it's nice. It's nice to hear from you guys. How you guys doing? Ah, Brian Stevens. Where are you at? Where are you? Where are you? I'm in Utah. And you don't want me to fucking Lando LDS.Oh, so are you joining the Mormon church? Is that true? Absolutely not. Or you're not trying to get like three wives. No, I be I'm cool. I'm cool. Just want to do it. I'm not even sure I could handle. All right. And, uh, do you still have your car? Did you get a new car? No, I should get the same one. The blue one.And is your, is your probation officer? Cool. Would you still,oh, when you were supposed to call me when you discharged July 6th? Well, you knew I was off. Schwartz is going to try six. Schwartz is going to take, Hey, Schwartz is going to take you to crazy girls, crazy girls, bro. You want see some shit. Relap dance. They're talking about getting you some lap dances. When you come back to LA, are you down with that?I'm ready. Let's go. I'm ready to come back to LA. I start a new job on Monday on the four cheat. So are you working zone the cars? Are you still doing the salesman? Never changed through dues, but you were working at, um, what was it? Your work? No, I worked at a, I'm working at a medical, uh, plane where they it's a shipping receiving warehouse.Wait, where were you just working at? I was doing the delivery for who? Oh, Domino's I still do the other side. Oh, that's Domino's too. Most of the time you were doing a little bit, you were working for Amazon, right? I mean, what do I got to remember your life or what man? You were just working in Amazon the last time I talked to you.So you're now not working at Amazon and now you're working at Domino's toOkay. It lifts. Yes or no lifts still going. And the new place is shipping and receiving for a medical. Yeah. For a medical place. They make, uh, it's a, it's a plastic. And when they make plastic molds for you bags, they make plastic molds for dildos, for dildos. They do that on the side, the left side of the right side, right in the middle.Right in the middle. What are you guys doing? You guys doing right now? You just finished? Nah, we're just hanging out. Sitting here. We got fucking two female strippers sitting here from silver rain from silver rain, Angela and Renee. Hello, Angela and Renee. So we call because we cause a. They're like, yeah, there are no more nice guys.There are no more nice guys. And I'm like, yes, there are. And they're like, no, there's no guys that are gentlemen. And they all treat women like, shit, I go, I go, listen, we have a guy handsome, six foot, two with a big font lawn, older guy. Did he gain? He did a bunch of time in prison, but there's a sweetest guy.And they're like, oh my God, we, whoever I go, we're going to bring him on air. And he is the real deal. He's a gentleman. Absolutely give him my number. But we told them, we told them no games, no head chips, no gold diggers, all that stuff because we talk God, because that seems really does all that exists these days.I know. I know. Thank God I got married when I did ladies out there as well. Right. I mean, it's just been one bad experience after the other, with, for these women. For Brian for Brian, Dan, dude. I mean the fuck's wrong with you and then, and then, and then like they take advantage of you.already the problem with the last one. She didn't even explain anything. Just left you hanging. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we, you know, we still talk we're good friends. Oh, you do right. But the one that left you hanging you're good friends with what's she going to be hanging? I was like, we were getting married or anything.The one that you said, I don't even know what happened. She just stopped talking to me. She got cold feet and backed out. So yeah, we still talk and we've been friends for five years ago. Oh, oh, oh, okay. Yeah. I've known him for a long time, right? This is a no fly by night thing. Listen, Brian, just jump into you.Don't just jump into. You just because you're all in, you're all hard, but, uh, but, uh, but the gold diggers on the fucking on Instagram, bro, how are they all calling and getting ahold of you and asking you to deposit money in their account? Why are you like always, but why? What are you, but what is that? How you.Why you looking at the wrong profiles? They call me. I always put touch your never give your number. Okay. We got it, right? No, because no, because they know that Brian Stevens is a gentlemen and they know that they can take advantage of, because his profile said something like, um, um, um, uh, lonely and looking for love or something.Right, right. What was it that you had as the title? You had something like that. And they're like, look, if you guys only show was going to go on, rather I I'm. When are you coming? You have an open invitation, even drill down yesterday. Dude, you drying. We want you to on the show, we want you to come in LA. Uh, you can stay the night over at, at my sober living.You can spend the night, come on. Maybe I'll come next to me. I'll come toin the morning. Hey Brian, you can come in and you could sit through the shows with us and do. Come on man. Let's do it. Alright. Alright. Let's do it. We will go next Saturday. I'll be the I'll come down Friday night and hang out. Like he absolutely. I'm being serious, bro. I'm not fucking, oh, we're not playing either.You're going to come on. You're going to come Friday and spend the night and do the show Saturday and then go, Rachel, Sterling's going to be here. Yes. You had her run enough, bro. You can listen to all our episodes. Wow. Yeah. Well, she was, she was asking about you. Boom. She was asking about you. I'm not her type shit.Well, I don't think she's looking for, what is she is she w she be considered a gold Digger. I don't make your money. So it makes her own gold. She's looking for a guy to help her. She's looking for a guy to help her organize her money. Can you do that? I'm the guy, listen, she's looking for a guy. That'll just start, stop hurting.Oh my God. Is that just that's terrible. She, she guy, are you that guy, would you not, would you not hurt her? Would you treat her right? Well, of course I would. If I was to tell the class, you're not willing to ride, that was written by three sisters and a mother though. So that's why I get that, that side of me from.You know, what's up. All right. So there you go, ladies. See ladies, this is a candidate. These girls are blushing. They're blushing. So I'm going to fucking new. I don't think these ladies should come anywhere near Brian because they might not be good enough for bright. Yeah. Oh, serious. No, I mean, from a, uh, this girl here with the big tits.Oh, I'm sorry. Come on. See, she's taking my, but Hey, I don't want you taking my buddy for a ride. I don't want you taking my buddy for a ride. Brian he's been hurt enough. Brian, Brian, you need an equal partner, right? You don't need to be doing everything on a big deal. Of course not a deal breaker. What about this Asian girl with the, with the substance, right.You're looking for as foundation in real talk. We can build off that. Not add to somebody can build on exactly. You don't need an, you don't need a kid. You need a partner. Yeah. I got a woman, a woman, real one. Right. He doesn't need me to support her independent woman. Right. You guys are a team. How can you build an empire?If you don't have somebody who's willing to put as much time in it as you are for us. Right. That doesn't even have a foundation. That's right. You don't need a pit. You need a foundation. Right? Who needs the pits? Yeah.I haven't been to a strip club in forever. I mean, we've got a lap dances waiting for you over, out here. Oh yeah. Hey, that's why he's coming next. You come down here, you get a choice. You get a choice. It's either it's either a dance on the lapse or relapse. Okay. That sounds good. All right. Listen, can you handle strong nipples?Because these girls got big nipples, man. Okay. All right. Hey ladies, can you handle, uh, Mr. Steven sourdough? Because he's got a pretty big Johnson.I fucking tell me shit. I'm like, okay, that's great, bro. He goes, nah, check this out. He put videovideo. He's very proud of himself. You guys he's busting. I bet he got video. He carries in his back pocket. If you doubt him, you don't doubt Brian he'll bust the Ville, put the video. He's got a GoPro tied around it right now. Got it looked like they were fucking doing this fucking tooth extraction on me.He calls it. He kept trying to do a tooth extraction on her with a fucking hose, with a Firo. They call it, they call it the cam. I partner, well, listen, next week. I'll call you before this weekwas going to the embarrassment. He's rubbing himself while you talk. Knock that shit off. Knock that shit up. Don't go beating the brakes off. Nobody. All right. They put you in jail here for that shit. Right? All right, Brian, I've talked to you during the week. Any cuts next next week is on, right? Okay. All right.Bye guys. Hey, so listen, you know, speaking of, um, Brian Stevens, you know, when we had Ray, Rachel Sterling in here with Brian, right. And we had that massive blowout where he confessed to being a Trump supporter and all that other stuff. Do you remember that? The one where I have a little video? Yeah. Listen, there's a quote that you do in there because you do you get to a frustration point where you've tried to explain to your buddy a million different ways like RO you're attracting like a weird.And he doesn't hear it. Right. And he's fighting and fighting and fighting and filing. We have like Rachel Sterling there and we asked her like, to look at his profile and like, okay, can you get a sandwich picture? Look at these eggs. I read you really look at the toast. I mean, look at the toast and how it's crispy on one end, how it's burned right in the middle.Putting the rest of the bread is pickle. Like really think that in take a look and really look at the salt and pepper that looks like it's in a camper. Like something like mobile, some mobile fucking home somewhere. So then she gets ready to tell him. And for some reason you make this quote, listen to this, and maybe you can help explain like what your frustration for context, frustration level was here.Okay. And relax, because this is a fuck a woman that we're not telling her what to say. Tell him, listen to this, listen and relax, because it's a fucking woman that we're not telling you what to say. What do you think it was like a setup or some shit? Yeah, he was, he was kinda treating us like to hear her, take it in, man.This is all fucking woman. It's so need this right now. And then listen, here's another one from Steve that I love that I put up in here. And just in case, this is when I told Steve shortly, before I quit energy drinks. Right. And Steve was like, well, how many energy drinks do you drink? And I'm like, oh, I'm about five, six a day.And this is, and this is how you. No it is. You're like, dude, you went straight surfer. That's not straight shaggy. And I've said so many things to you. You've never been like, that's not really due until I told you, I drank that many energy drinks that like sets you off. Right. So we got a big game coming up next week.Oh, I'm sorry. I like your little segue. Hey buddy. Nodrop the hammer crowbar. No, but the best that you got about the fucking Superbowl, he didn't give me like a fucking fuck up super bowl title. Seriously. Like its eyebrows started to Twitch and I go shit. What about the man? Well, you entered into the whole thing going well, I think dad can be a little bit.Yeah, no. Yeah, no, I mean, it is, but it's sort of, Hey, now listen. What's the best of it is just coming right into the fucking little, the loss of 49ers. We'll just start in that way. He falls through the roof when he's like, Hey, we got a big game coming up, which it's like the super bowl. It's all aimed at shot.Hi Sean. Yeah. But then when he, but then when he looks at me, Schwartz does this thing where he gets a little nod. Like he goes, come on wine in the dark. Right.He was like, come on, motherfucker. Yeah. Hey man, you looked at me like, I, you know what, man, any, any bit of sports bro gets me and gives me a, a twinkle in my eye. And, uh, more than that, he had a twinkle, like you got the antidote, huh?You know what happens is you say stuff and then you run you Peter out. Like you go like what?You kind of spin on it. Yeah. So look, so look, it, we've been dancing around it and fucking around and all this other shit, but we got a bunch of fucking NFL fucking shit happened. Right? I mean, anything that could happen in a pretty much one single day, you got the retirement of Tom Brady, the lawsuit from the ex Miami head coach chorus class action.I read, I read the class action. I read it. Okay, cool. I want to hear what you think about that from a, obviously from a lawyer's point of view, right? And then in the super bowl, we got the bangles versus the ramps. And I think we should, and I think you're right Schwartz to start here, but I think we need to turn to, uh, old blue eyes.Right? Who was playing the they're not even supposed to be their game for a while. Oh yeah. It was total reverse psychology, fucking superstition. And you know what? I'll tell you one other thing. I watched that game, the highlights, right. And I'm like, man, the Niners really should have won that game. Blew it.They fucking, you blew it. Right. Sean, did you watch that game from the outside in? How do you, like, where are you at when you watch that game? Like where do you sit. Uh, I said, I stand, I've moved around. Okay. So first of all, I go into that game thinking, uh, you know, they had a great season, so no matter what happens, I'm cool.Right. But then the game starts and I'm like, oh fuck. The first step first I've done. I'm like, yeah, I know a big, you know, Hey, it's this warm up, warm up, whatever, you know, they're probably going to lose. It's all good. You know, whatever we have had a great season, but then when they get up, oh shit, oh, to the super bowl, I hate my hopes get up and they go to half-time and looking at all.How much more game. Right. And mind you like burn the clock, burn the clock, and you got to remember, they came out with a turnover early on in the game that set them up. And if you're anything like me, you start getting nervous. Cause you're like, that's the kind of like, shit that happens. That turns into a blowout and that these people are mentally ready to win this motherfucking game.And, and you also have the fact that this is, he already knows that the bangles are the appoint on that's true. The super bowl. So he's not just starting to dream that they're going to beat the Rams. What they're going to go to the super bowl and win this fucking cause they already beat the bangles.There's a chance. There's a real chance. Now he got a chance. How do you do this? This the, the half the half's gotta be fucking torture. Like what do you do? You go, you make some hot dogs. You know what I'm I'm uh, I constantly followed. I have like a special feed. That's just like all kind of like football related shit.Did you like that monkey with the shit implanted in its brain, bro? Yeah, only it's a little football chip. Yeah. He's got a football chip chip chip. Right, right. I got to tell you guys I'm like, I mean, not to get off the subject, but I'm already into the next season and you're following. And you sell it out, but I actually call blue eyes up because the Niners had fallen on some pretty hard times for a minute there.Right. And a Seahawks are now down in the dumps. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I called up a blues and I'm like, how do you survive this man? Like, what do you do? And he gave me some pointers. That's been surviving it his whole fucking life. I know, but I asked him for the pointers. What do you do? Gorgeous was a long time.No, but dude, but think about this though, really? Because if you think about the Niners had been in the Superbowl, like this would have been the third time in the last, like five years, if they would've made it. Right. Which is fucking nuts, you think that they haven't been good? I think there's like a 15 year chunk in between them to say one Mike Singletary and like all those other years, chip Kelly and TA Chama Sula and all this other shit.But like, I mean the Harbaugh years were fucking fantastic. Yeah, but like, so what did you tell when I called you up? And I'm like, man, how do you get through a fucking loser season? Can't remember what I told you. Jesus Christ. You can't remember shit because of that chip in your head. He was like, bro, it's all about next season.What you do. Oh, you get excited about the draft. You start getting into all that, let that carry, carry your broken heart. Oh, the first and second year players that are going to be getting into that third year. That show me year when they're coming into their own. They got a lot, they got a few guys in the defensive backfield that, that have that.And so their defense, I mean, Niners are actually pretty well situated. Leave that they are. I believe that they're going to be one of the preeminent teams in the NFC. I think it all depends on if they're going to actually make a running compete for not only winning the division, but winning titles is going to be if Trey, Lance is the real deal because they're giving up on Jimmy G I mean, Jimmy G at his exit press conference.You know, he said, I, you know, I'm looking forward to getting traded to a team that, uh, that's all about winning right now. So I think which everybody kind of knew the writing was on the wall, that this was it. No matter how far he took it and they loved Jimmy G and all that, but they're moving away from him and they're going to give the keys to one guy yeah.To a kid. Now he's supposed to be great, but he's a kid, he's a kid, nonetheless. And when you make a bet like that on your franchise, in the NFL, getting it wrong can set you back years because if you have. All they have studs, bossa, Kittle, uh, Fred Warner, like gasoline defensive line, the defensive backfield.I got James who's really good. Um, uh, the running back, uh, I can't even think it was named Elijah Mitchell most or right. Debo. Right. He most are like all these guys, but if you get in a quarterback, that's not the real deal. You're going to have two or three years of waste, or let's say two years of wasted years for those other guys.Hold on a second. So listen, all of that is if you're working with management in an owner, that's trying to win, right. And so this kind of like quarterback, curve, ball, a pig, and a poke, all that bullshit. Right. Brian Boswell and all that shit. Right. That's if you're working with guys that are trying to be honest up at the front office, problem is right as the ex head coach of the Miami dolphins fucking said.His fucking owner was telling him to throw games and he'll give him an extra, a hundred thousand dollars per loss fucking, or that's so insane because it goes at the integrity manifests. I, yeah, cause I was peeping up on that. Say it again. So ex head coach who had back to back winning seasons for the dolphins African-American head coach.I think we need to know that right. For African American history month, for sure. You're right. Black, black fucking coach, his own, or told him every game you lose, I'll give you an extra a hundred grand. So if he lost 11 games straight, he'd be $1.1 million richer on top of what he's getting paid. Right. And this was the year before Joe burrow was slated to come out and be the number one pick, which he was for the bangles.Think about. Really think about that. Think about a head, uh, the owner throwing games. Now, now you might say, you might, you might do the calculus and say, well, the guy wants the top pick, God wants a top pick. You gotta do what you gotta do. But think about all of the guys on the team that are depending on the head coach to call the right place, to make the right moves, to win games so that they would have stats that their bonuses are tied to.And also the sacrificing of their bodies in their lives. I mean, this is not, this is not any normal job. W every fucking play can be their life, listen to this. And not only could every play be their last, but, but their paychecks, their worth in the league is partially tied to how these games go. And if they got a head coach, that's being told.Call the wrong players, do the wrong shit. Make sure you lose these games and I'll give you a hundred grand. Yeah. And maybe it would be for a pig. Maybe. I don't know exactly. I do the whole thing. I would. Here's what I'm thinking too, when you really, really think about it. Who else is just think about it in simply economic terms, money money-wise son.How many toes are those guys stepping on with their, a little conversation on all the other guys that are gambling? Oh right. Think about that. Think about what Vegas thinks of that. If they're not privy to that. Well, you're now stealing money from people. Much bigger than who you guys are. Right. You know what I'm saying?You're now fucking up action. You're these consequences. These have ripple effects of people much, or you're getting they're in on it, or you're guaranteeing action for some big people. And I, and I think that this, if it's actually true as alleged in the story, I think this story actually has a better chance of putting a dent in what we now know is the NFL than even the head injury and CTE shit, because this T bet gambling is such a huge part of the NFL fantasy football is such a huge part of the NFL.And this goes directly at the integrity of the game. Well, let's throw the icing on the cake here and, and the owner of the Miami dolphins that same year, 2019, ha what he sung $18 million. Into buying or, uh, investing in some sort of gambling right. Endeavor. Yep. So I'm not sure he knows something and sports bet, but yeah.And all right, so going maths, no, there's no way that you can tie those two together, man. It's it's too. You mean gambling and sports? No. Having like somebody in that position and messaging, that is a, what do they call it? Conflict of interest. Well, never before. Really? I mean, you could say that, but that's how, if this turns out to be true, I mean, that's, you're right.If you are owner or. Somehow connected to a professional franchise team. That's what happened to Eddie DeBartolo. You shouldn't be able to have ownership or be evolved or act, but it connected at the same time as anytime a bedding and anything. I mean, we all know that that would make sense. That's those constraints have been loosened the last couple years as, as bedding has become legal in a lot of states.Well, well, so now, so now let me put this in, in, in a, in a perspective, because you know, a long with this lawsuit when I was going through it, right, the owner of the dolphins had Brian Flores out on his yacht for a fucking lunch. Okay. We're talking about Florida. They came back from lunch and the owner said, by the way, I've got a prominent quarterback that's coming down that wants to meet.I wonder who that is. A prominent quarterback that remain nameless in the complaint. He was Bree had heavy. He went to Tampa. Yeah, it has to be Brady. There's the new England Patriot connection with Brian Flores. He was there for years. Um, no. And the dolphins were one of the teams that it was talked about that he may go through.And Brian Flores, because he's an honest dude did not want to meet with that guy. Yep. And that was when the owner turned around and said, you know, this Brian Flores is a real pain in the ass. He doesn't want to fucking play. And when you get that kind of repetition, it's kind of like Hollywood when you're an actor and you're like, Hey man, you ain't paying me.Right. This is all fucked up. You know what? You got this fucking guy with caps in a gun and he's one around firing it off. That's dangerous. And then you say some shit that's real like that. And they go, there's a problem. It's hard to work with. And that's a Telegraph to everybody that's on the inside.Yeah, he's not going to cheat the way we want him to cheat. And so you're out and in that also complaint, he was alleging because there's a rule in NFL where, because they've already acknowledged, they've already said the NFL is like, yeah, we don't have black quarterbacks. We don't have black coaches.Everybody's seen it as a problem for since time immemorial. Yep. There was a time when certain individuals were proud of that fact, because it's like, yeah, we still got our plantation. We're still doing our thing. So then they were like, all right, well, at least include some minorities in the interview process and the Rooney rule.Right. Rooney, Mickey Rooney. Did you ever see his hand? So the thing is, is so he goes for art Rooney rhino. So he goes, uh, so Brian Floris is texting with bill Bella. Right. And now these are supposed to be bonafide interviews. When you go on a head coaching, like you go there, it's the Rooney rule. Do you going to get in there?And you're going to get a fair shot. They're gonna look at the objective criteria. You ain't gonna fuck around. I ain't going to be any of bullshit. And bill a check, text him and say, Hey, I just heard from your, their guy, man. Right. Three days before Brian Forrest goes in for an interview three days before everyone that's doing the interviewing, that's telling them you got fair shot, buddy.Come on in. And these interviews are brutal. Like it ain't no like, you know, filling out some shit for seven 11 and hoping they don't call your fucking parole. Right. It's fucking like all day. How do you do? But so multiple people that kind of bullshit. And uh, then bill check hits him back on text and it's in bill check is named and bill a check, uh, as Texas is shown and it says, oh my bad.They picked someone else already. Sorry about that. The ability to catch some insight on, I think it was a New York giants. Yeah. Yeah. And it was because actually the guy who the giants hired was a coach on his staff and a coach that actually worked with Brian Flores years ago, a guy Brian , um, quarterback's coach for longtime quarterbacks coach for the page.So, so essentially what bill check's texts did was let Brian Flores know three days before that that selection had already been made. And that this Rooney rule interview was just a check the box for PC bullshit.And then, then Bella check in trouble too. No, I think, I think Bella check actually from what I'm looking at it and thinking about it, I think bill check is actually helping Brian flora. I think bill check is on the side of this should be real fucking things. And you can use my name and text to build up the case that all this shit that they're not following in.Good faith. The Rooney rule bill check is behind. I think helping Flores cause his, his tax is the proof that everyone in the fucking community knew that the decision was already made. Even though they're pretending like they're really going to interview you because they just won't be able to say they talk to a black coach before they hire them.And the giants are actually sorry to interrupt the giants, I believe are the only team in the NFL that has never had a prominent, like a coordinator or a head coach African-American they had an African-American GM for a bit, but they're notoriously known throughout the league, um, as not being inclusive in terms of that, you know, right.Having a. Equality amongst the ranks. And then what were you going to say, Sean? I was going to say he also had an interview with the Broncos. Right. And he met them. He went out, he went to Denver and met them. Right. And they all showed up. Everybody who was in the interview, I guess, hung over, including John LA, just over an hour late.Right. And they were like, uh, like they don't give a fuck as John Elway would probably do you, you, yeah. I hate John L a lot of people do. I hate his teeth and I hit his face. A lot of people do. I hate his teeth and his face, so that's what's going on. So, but it's a class action on behalf of right. All the other coaches right.Of color are getting shafted and mistreated and, and other coaches that are. Having losing seasons. And that's all very understandable. Then you have a coach with two back-to-back winning seasons, but he's black and he doesn't want to throw games now he's right. And I mean, dude, like this last year, the dolphins beat the Patriots twice.That's an AFC east. And the fact that he's beaten up on Bella check and giving him a hard time, if that coach was white, he's never getting fired. Dude. Never getting fired. That guy did it with a subpar roster, a subpar quarterback. And you know what? This guy, all, all reports about this guy is he's not looking for a payday.He's looking for real change. And so we're going to see he's willing to ruin his career to do it. Yeah. He's willing to say, fuck it. Somebody's got to step up and take the fucking head. Right. And I'm going to do it because this fucking bull. This ain't this ain't football, this ain't John Madden's football, right?That's about skill wit and heart. And all of this is a fucking, uh, uh, it's a, it's not a free market. It's a fixed market, a lie, but that was all about sacrifice to men. You sacrifice your body, you sacrifice for your brothers, you sacrifice, um, you know, fame, look at the guys who blocked for the running backs.You know, a lot of these guys, let me, let me, let me ask you this to take it there. What do you think is going to happen for this fucking Superbowl man? What what's going to happen, man? Where was this fucking thing? I mean, I got my opinions. I want to hear some LA LA Rams in the super bowl in LA. I went so far.Not that I really wish that you didn't bring that up. This may never happen again. Like this is good. Very well. Never happen again. Has that happened? It happened last year. The bucks. It's crazy that it's happened two years in a row, but last year, the super bowl was at Raymond James stadium, the bucks home field.They played in it and they won right now first year. So far, we get the super bowl and the fucking lambs. I mean, the Rams are in it, you know? W w is that your that's like your sorta like LA yeah, the lambs. I mean the rent. All right. But listen to me, the man. Right. But listen, the reason why I don't want you to, well, as you can set, it said in Las Vegas next year, Allegiant, and that means the Raiders.Sure, man, I'm sick and tired of these fucking I hate, I fucking hate that. All of the fucking. Stadiums or whatever the fuck they're called these days are all named after shit ass companies, Allegion, even stupid, dumb American coming. Allegiant. What about crypto.com arena? The new staple center. You know what?Let's go back to motherfucking Christmas day. They changed it. I mean, what does it mean anymore? What else is present your children? Next reason why I trip out about this is because I'm, um, I'm torn. I'm torn now. Listen, I love the fact that LA is in the Superbowl. Okay. Listen. I know people run around and I saw canal's fucking post he's down for the ransom Las LA.Do I get off? I'm not against it, but I'm torn because I also love the bangles and I don't even know why, but I love the motherfucking Cincinnati goddamn bangles and eight story, man, man, skyline chili, middle America, Dave Hickey, shuffle shuffle, and I'm sitting there and I'm like, what do I do? I can't, I can't not root for the LA Rams, but I also, can't not root for the fucking bangles.What are we asked Luxe? We know what he's doing. We know who he's riding. No, no, no, no, no. He's talked a big one about the young quarterback over sign. Oh man. I that WK RP. What do you leave that out on the fucking side, Joe is my favorite football player. He's. And I've been knowing him a long time ago, bro.And I give you props because you've been on him from the job. Yeah. I've loved Joe Burroughs. He's my favorite quarterback. I got to root for that guy and stick with that guy. Uh, when the Raiders were in it, I wasn't with the Raiders. Right, right. Isn't that right? Yes. I'm from Los Angeles. I guess. I love LA, but the LA Rams, my LA team, the Raiders were that's my team, I to with it, but I ain't giving up on Joe.So I got a role with Cincinnati on this. I'm sorry, you guys, I got a role with Joe burrows on this. I believe once they win one, then I'll back up off of it and I'll stay up off of that. But let my guy get one. I got a route with them support. Do you actually think they're going to win? Oh, all that bullshit.I said tell you this, man. I believe from the gate that George Joe bros is the type of quarterback that can lead a team to victory. I think he would have already, if he wasn't injured, I hear this already what happened? And I think he is going to win. And I absolutely feel like I believe it's in his destiny to do this short prediction.Where are we going? And who do you back? And don't be fucking trying to be Mr. Nice all the time. Come on. Um, I am going to probably not care who wins. No, no, no. I won't be disappointed if, and that's not often. No, no. You got to pick one or, or you have to fuck Ruby and hell. Okay. So let's go pick one, pick one.I will say that, uh, the Rams are going to win the super bowl by a score of 31 to. 20, wow. Or 34 to 20. And I'm going to tell you why, because if it gets a touchdown or less, I actually liked the bangles to pull it off. But if they can keep it at least a two score distance between themselves and the bangles, I think that they'll Del finish it off.Um, I think that Joe burrow will probably win a super bowl in his career. I think it's too early for them. Um, I, I like him. I think that they have too many holes on their defense that the Rams and Sean McVay will exploit. I want to say something to, and it's obvious with that answer. Right. But no, I do trust Schwartz and.About what there by, because these guys are, they're paying way more attention to football than I oh, well, okay. But I am a I'm. I am, you know, I, and you're on my side. I'm on your side. Okay. Now fucking, oh, blue eyes, one half of the hound of hell, the second half of the hound of hell to, I would love for the bangles to win, but the Rams are going to obliterate them.That whole line is going to get victimized victimized. I'm telling you, dude, it's going to be fucking, it was to not see the second half they were saying that wasn't going to happen. And not Joe burrow may not see the second half. He might not see the second quarter telling you, man, that line is going to fuck them up.The Niners have a way better line and they got fucking. They're in the line, got pushed around. They're the number one line and fucking defensive line in the, in the league. And then you're looking at the bangles probably have like, yeah, but did you see, this is 29 30, something like that, but did you see Burroughs running around?This is what gives me. 'cause man. He did a fucking fantastic job. I mean, there was Tufts, fantastic job. He was in the grasp and it was clear. He was sacked and he somehow got out. God, he's magical, man. He is fucking magical. Now that's the thing. That's the thing. He's mobile. If he can fucking buy a little time to figure out he could pull it off, dude.Cause he's accurate. He rolls out. He's filling some yard. Oh my God, leave a little open gap. He's going to run that. He's not afraid to run. I'm saying if the O-line can do just enough to give him five fucking seconds of, of a lead time, you know, with his feet, but can his receivers, does he have the receivers to show Nixon the receiver, but Jamar chase.I mean that, guy's the truth, man. Like T came with him. That's a kid who came from LSU. But, um, I mean, I think he's literally taken over 25 sacks just in the playoffs and he hasn't played anybody. Aaron, Donald is going to be on the other side, fucking staring at him that motherfucker, the problem is an Aaron Donald, cause they'll put they'll double team him or whatever it would, problem is the problem is everybody else double teams.Right. And there'll be fucking Miller. Oh my God. Well, how deeply is Kansas city's deal. Yeah, not that deep. I mean, they're okay. But they're, they're not everybody was saying that their defense was well, maybe people did, but they're fucking idiots because Chris Jones is like, great. And that's about it. But, um, ah, I mean, dude, you're talking about world, the differences between the Rams, defense and defense in, in whole, um, not just a defensive line.And I mean, man, I, I just ate very tough for an NFL quarterback in year two to win the super bowl. I loved it there. And literally if they beat the Rams, I'm not a Rams fan, so I'm not going to be disappointed. And did the Rams have to be in LA before you have to get behind the Rams? Because, because you're from LA, I want the LA team that I support as the charters.If anything, what are they? They play it so far. I haven't, I feel like for some reason I didn't even, I know that they exist, but it's a smart, it's the smartest move ever. They put that stadium and they're not only going to have Superbowls and see, you know, college title, games, concerts, but they have two NFL teams.So every week of the NFL season, they have a home game. All right. So check this out. So. Uh, so we've got it all, but I want to turn it to motivation real quick. Uh, Steve, you, I know it's a fucking big Lux fucking segue. Yeah. But we're going, we're talking about winning. We're talking about championships.We're talking about what it takes to get over on the top. And so we been putting together, right. We're working on putting together a motivational audio book five, the hard way. The five, no, the hard five, the hard five, five key concepts. Yes. So because of that, I want to get your, and where are you going?Schwartz. We all need to know. We don't need any notes. You don't need to be reading off where it's where improv. And right now don't worry about that. I'm not going to go too deep into it because there's a lot and kick your weird coal, black thinkers off that. Cut their fingers. Look crazy. Look like you got, they look it's crazy.They look like they got nothing but nicotine and Tarlow. And remind me of my auntie Gloria. All right, now look, I see. Okay. What is it? Is that what that is? My packing thumb, bro. Packing what? Jesus Christ. All right. Now look, I want to get your, since we're experts in motivation Schwartz, you're a disciplined, motivated dude.Yes we are. I want you to listen to this. This I think is maybe one of the best things and I'm going to stop it. And I'm going to ask for your reactions because I think this is good. It's good for our audience. You going to get 50%.you think you're gonna get 70%? You think you're gonna get 80? I watched y'all. I watched y'all. Y'all good, but you need to be great in this league. You're real good at what you do, but some of you don't finish. You look good in the first you look good in the second you look stuff, but the fourth with the last three minutes, I can tell, I can tell what the last three, listen to me.The real beast. The real beast is the last four minutes. The real beast. That's when they legs give out the real beats, when they tired, the real beef, find a way to pull something out when nobody else ain't got nothing. What do you think? What do you think, man? It's all about the fourth quarter, bro. Oh, it's all about the fourth quarter.We, I, I did some, I talked about it one day. I talked about it, talking about this guy that gave a speech that COVID. A football team that was never supposed to win their championship. And it was like they had trained and worked all four, the fourth quarter, their whole mindset, all was all about the fourth quarter.And that's how they got, and they won and they beat this, you know, it was beat because they were done in the fourth and these guys were ready to go in the fourth. Like they were in the first and it's a, so there was like a story about it. And then the coach says in his thing, he goes life. I wasn't coaching them to win that I was coaching them for life so that they go through their life.It's all about like the fourth quarter minutes, how you it's, it's there, man. Everybody can do whatever, but it's when you know how you pull through, when everything is on the line, you know what I mean? What do you think is the fourth quarter of life? Hey guys, we need to do a spot about family. Sounds, family sound.Yeah. My family sounds. Yeah, man, they got a whole hookup hace one as it. It's good. Let me tell you, they can do an hour long podcast about your memories, your history, your family. No way. Yeah. Yes. Way family sounds team. They have not only do they assemble a guys that have extensive experience in recording podcasts and editing them, right?Like seal team six, but for podcasts, but they also will use your family's voices. And on top of it, they hook you up with an initial interview and they find the right producer to work with you and your family. Like you said, they'll use your voice. Uh, Schwartz, how long does that initial interview take 30 minutes, right?To learn more about family sense, please visit www family-sounds.com backslash lucky 17. That's our unique code. That's our unique code. That's our unique code there you got is our unique code. Family sounds your memories in a podcast. Marion watch Mary Bean, Jennifer Lopez, Owen Wilson Maluma marry me directed by in theaters and streaming all the old peacock.Sign them now. Visit peacock tv.com. I think that would go through like many fourth quarters of life throughout life. Like, and it's finishing on some things, but the fourth quarter I look at is like the, maybe the, the final chapters you might refer to. Which for me, I feel like I'm in the fourth quarter of my life.So right now this, this, this speech, this, when it legs give out, when there's nothing left, when you're getting tired, when you feel like you got nothing left, when, when it seems like you're in that mode right now, when the muscles and the shiny smile and start going away and some of them and the gray hair and the thing, and what's going to carry you through is whatever you invested in the first three quarters.And if you invested nothing, then that fourth quarter, ain't going to look good and you're going to lose Schwartz. What quarter of life are you in right now? I'd say I'm probably in the second or late second or third. What do you hear when you hear this man? Eric Thomas, man, it makes me want to fucking, it reminds me of.Being that was always kind of sports, what that meant to me. And that's kinda how I, I was all the time. And so I hear that shit. I fucked my leg. Start to Twitch. You got twitchy legs, Sean, what are you hearing? What court are you in? I'm not a C I don't that it doesn't ring true for me. Like the, my lifetime.Right? What to me fourth quarter means when you're lonely, when you're broke, when you're depressed, when you're sad, like all these types of things, when you're feeling like shit and you don't want to get out of bed, or you don't want to fucking get on the phone and talk to anybody, you just want to be by yourself.Cause you're feeling the fucking depressed or in your shit. That's when it matters. That's what, when he says that that's what fourth quarter means to me. I'm from the trade I've watched period Sanders do it. I watched Barry no yards in the first quarter. No yard. The lines were sorry. Offensive line was.There was killing Berry, some kind of weight on the fourth quarter. When the big boys, when the linebackers got little tired, fourth quarter, four minutes left when they was giving out Barry boom, 80 yards touchdown. I'm like Barry, why you ain't got no dance? I know I'm old. Go back and watch Barry. He never was dead.I said, Barry, why are you in dad's? Cause he said, I know him. I'm a no I'm no I'm going to get to the end zone. It's going to be a regular thing. I'm going to get to peace mode. Write that down, write that down. Beast mode, write that down. Write that down. Beast mode. You know who he's talking to right now?He's talking to San Francisco, he's talking to San Francisco, San Francisco hired this guy to come in. I know. And I get it. And I think that's a wonderful, but I'm the only one getting fucking funnies from the fucking irony. What's the irony because the NFC title game, they fucked off the fourth quarter.No. He's telling him, you got to listen to this. He was brought in to motivate these motherfuckers. And when Sean was saying, they went a little further than I think they're supposed to go, he's there telling them, but you're right. And he was being honest. This guy was paid. He gets 70 grand, 80 grand to come in and do this shit.Right. And he was telling him, I watched you all and you're gray. You're good. But I seen you in the fourth quarter and you start to fucking give out. And just as you pointed out short, it is ironic that the game they lost, they should've won. And that goes right to the fucking heart of the mat. And I, but Sean, I'm not trying to talk shit about them.I really, no, no, no, but I'm serious. I don't want you to think I'm saying that. Not only did they, and that happens, firstly, in playoffs, man, people give up leads that that's what happens, but there was a specific play that like literally there couldn't have been an easier place for the right listen, this is why it's they say winners win, losers, lose.They also say winners win and losers make excuses. So now listen to what I'm saying to you. What he's trying to do is break through a loser mentality for a pretty decent team. He's trying to break through a loser mentality. Steve, you ever had an experience of having team members that fucking have a loser mentality and no matter how much shit they talk in the first quarter, whatever you're dealing with at the very end, they don't show up.They show up empty and they fucking take the whole thing. Fucking lazy fraud, fake that's right. And a lazy fraud fake. And so I'm saying I'm watching this dude. I listen to this every morning. Right now, first thing I do, when I get up lazy fat fraud, fake desk losers lose, they lose because they got a mindset of losing.They want to lose. They say they don't want to lose, but they don't want to put in the work. Every single day. All right. On three, every single day, 1, 2, 3. Come on. Y'all you hear that? That San Francisco, every single day, I flew, I flew five hours to get here and give me some energy. That was, I just told you I was in Dubai.That was a 13 hour flight. I was just in Chicago and then I had to go to Milwaukee. Then I went back, drove three hours to get to the airport in Detroit. Come on, give me something once two, three, come on 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3. And if you not willing to do what every single day, you're not going to beat the man.That's doing it every single day. I'm not the best. I'm not better than Tony Robbins, Zig Ziglar, Les brown. I'm not the best, but they have not outworked me. You hear? Yeah. When I work with me, are you listening to that? You're not going to beat the guy. That's doing it every single day. If you're not doing it every single day,Zach are you going to beat that guy? How are you going to beat that? If you're not doing it every single day, you have no business. You don't have to be the greatest. You just have to work the hardestyou could send the toughest motherfucker. You want into that jujitsu studio. And you'd take some kid that fucking weighs 90 pounds, but fucking studies every day in that motherfucker. And he's going to print soul up that big guy has no business walking in there thinking he's going to walk there down.How many guys can you think of right now without saying names that aren't really doing it every single day and they're getting the results. They're getting the goddamn results that they're, ain't doing it every single day. How many guys do you know right now? Right now, Sean, how many guys, you know right now.They want the results of every single day, but they ain't go, come on, come on. I mean, everybody, I know everybody, I will know once, once the recognition or the muscles or whatever it is, the money, the money, the real, right. Some people walk into a room and they go, I ain't got no motherfucking respect. I should be being respected right now, because guess what?I'm here. So you should respect me. I'm entitled to it because X, Y, and Z, but they ain't doing it every day. They ain't setting the fucking bar high enough for themselves to be command. Any respect for men.They better than me. Nice big brother to me. I got a GED dark on it. It took me 12 years to get a four year degree. They better than me. I just get up every day at three and get you a video. I just get up everyday at 12 and give you another one. I just get up at five and give you another, I'm not the best.I'm a beast. I'm not the fastest. Like I won't tell you all the secret. Please don't share this away from you because I'm about to develop it and make it into like a shirt. You all see people be having the lions you ever seen people like with the shirts, with the lions, they tattoo a liar. You know, the lion is 30%.Do you know that the hunt, the hunting rate of a lion is 30%. So if a lion come after you, you've got to say you got almost a 70% chance, like make, getting up, getting away from a man, go watch it on TV. You got a chance to get away from a man. Go watch it. Like the live ride, jump on top. And then I'm out.Sometimes you'll see two lines on top and some kind where they still get out. Y'all know who the real king of the jungle is. Do you know, do you know who the king of the jungle is? What you guess what's the hippo, right, Steve? Um, what are you guessing? The elephant is. The African wild dog, they got an 83% chance when they come get your button, it's an 83% chance.They gonna kill you. A lion only got like 30, 33, but the reason why the lion is considered the king of the jungle is because of his main cause of the way he look. And he roars the hyena don't look like that, but I bet you, if you pay attention, you will see a lion's mouth in the high end. You'll see a lion head and the hyena mouth.Why? Because the hyena knows that he got that look, but he ain't necessarily up to be the king of the jungle. You got it. Okay. So let me tell you why the African wild dog number one, they can run like about 60, 70 miles per hour. That's not impressive. The cheetah can do that, but the cheetah can only do it for about a mile.Then boys can do it for about five, six miles. Imagine somebody chasing you at 60 miles per hour for five, you going to get tired. They run in packs and watch this. When y'all got to write this one down, they communicate like no other animal. Could they communicate to one another? If y'all want to be champions, you got to communicate to each other.Number one, I need my, my seniors, my bets, those who know that this ain't no game. This is life. You gotta be a leader. Y'all you gotta hold these boys accountable, man, for real man, you can't let these dudes come in. When they want to come in, eat whatever they want to eat. When they want to eat, do whatever they want to do when they want to do it.Why? Because your success is more, you worked out today. How many hours you work out? Three hours. He only three hours. Y'all y'all got to hold people accountable. Who you running with? Hold people accountable. What does that make you think about Steve? When you hear a guy talking about that, and he's saying the older dudes, they got to hold the younger dudes accountable.You can't just let them come in and do what they want to do. I agree, man. You look like you're thinking, bro Schwartz, what do you hear? It's funny. It's similar. What I've heard when they talk about like Navy seals, about how a lot of them aren't like necessarily the best at everything, but same thing like with the dogs totally translates to a sports team or a business or whatever.When you have communication, when you have effort, when you have all that it's um, and it's a big thing for a team. I think it's a great. Great lesson in great words. And see, I hear that, man. I hear that. And I, I get convicted. I get convicted, man. I'm a fucking, I get turned on fire inside. I burn inside a burn bro, a fucking burn.And I, and I, and I sit down and listen to that and I go, where am I at on that? Fucking, where am I at serious? I don't fucking play games with his shit. I asked myself, where am I at? You know, it's not a joke to me. It's not a game to me. It's not a fucking, this is why sometimes right? I go over the top, right?I think in my cell phone, I see this shit. I get so fucking crazy. And I think to myself, like, you know, my legal team, my podcast team, my family team, where am I at? Am I communicating? Am I showing up every day with a high energy, high effort. Right? Wow. I can think about what we're going to do with this motivation.I think about this audio book. I think about fucking knowledge. I think about all the shit I go through to be able to show up here with fucking things. It ain't something that come natural to me. It seems like it does because I put so much work in man. When I was in school, do you know that they used to shit on me for the, my writing is the shit on me.I hated English. I hated English at UC Berkeley. I hated English. I had to go to a substitute school for one semester because my writing was sub par. I was raised on the resume. And then I was raised at one and one of the worst high schools in America called five high school. If you're listening to this five high school, you're a shithole Podunk loser teachers' loser system.Really the name of the school, five high school fuck five high school. And I, I was at, I had to go to CSU Hayward for one quarter, work them to like writing essays and stuff like that. That's right. Yeah, that's right. And you know, there was an old lady, professor smelled like pee BP, and I wrote my fucking paper right when she was serious.And she was one of these, these fucking old ladies with the fucking chain on her goddamn. Okay. And she pulled me aside secretly and say, come into my office. I need to talk to you about your paper. And I thought I was going to get her in a war. That's a dumb, I am. Well, no, because it's one thing to know the subject and like, but you have to know how to set up an actual paper and an essay and stuff like that.Is that kinda what happened? Like you knew the shit, but she was like, you're fucking, what is your purpose in telling me that what, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not getting mad. I was asking, you know, why would you, why would you add that comment right here? Not, not, not for, not for a podcast reason. I'm asking like emotionally or inner, what was that comment?So, oh no, I, I I've had experience with that way back in the day. And, and it was, um, an issue for me too and writing papers. So that's why I was sharing that. That's why I said that. Cause it kinda felt like you were relieving the pressure on me a little bit. Well, you know, the subject you Mohan, you just don't know how to set it up yet.Right? Cause I said I was so dumb. I thought I was going to get. I thought she was pulling me aside to say, man, you rat like Billy, the kid shoots. And when I walked in there and she looked at me and she said, you think you're going to get into Berkeley? Right. Oh, you know, you think you're going to get into Berkeley right in like that.And she pointed out the stuff and it was embarrassing. Oh bro. My fucking spine curdled. I have fought tooth and nail every step of the way to become a better writer. And I'm still not that great, but I'm better now. I only bring that up to say that I put a lot of energy into all this. The thing that does come easy to me talking that comes easy to me, but the other shit don't.So I'm asking you Schwartz, when you hear all this. What is an area in your life that you feel like I can level up Jesus so many, but I I'm trying to level up recently on just taking care of my, my mental health. Um, so that's, that's an area right now that I'm trying to, I'm actively trying to work on. And in what way are you going to take care?Of what way have you not been taking care of your mental health? Well, I've been not setting boundaries with family members, um, and, or setting the boundaries, but not unfortunately, due to some, you know, a lot of dysfunction, there's a dance that I've gotten in with certain family members where, whether it's consciously or subconsciously.They know, regardless of me screaming to them, telling them that I can't do it, that when it comes down to it, I will do it. And no matter me saying, no, no, no, I can't do this anymore. It's bad for me. I can't, you know, and they'll know that I'll do it. And the other fucked up part is that I know that I'll do it.Right. It's part of you doing it saying you can't do it. Right. And it's, and it's really, really fucked up. And it's gone on for a lot of years and um, wait, stop. Why are you going to do it? Why am I going to do it? Yes. Because, um, because I, I deserve to have that and to care enough about myself to do that in the main, why are you going?Why when you say I can't do it, you and everybody guilt. So guilt comes from committing a crime. Or, uh, violating a rule. Right? So what crime or rule did you violate for you to have the guilt to make you do something you don't want to do? No, it's just, it's, it's like inherent in me to not, to, to not have to be there for family and stuff like that.Do you feel that you're the last house on the block to be there for people who are just going to use you use you up and let you die at cancer and they are going to be gone already and you ain't going to, you're going to be alone. So what is it that you've done that has led you to be in a situation where you're the last house on the block for people who ain't going to be there for you?I don't know. I haven't done anything to, I got a question just the right along those lines in. Um, the question might be, when was it that you forgot in this whole equation? That this was your life? Oh, like your life, right? I don't know. I don't know, man, to be honest with you, but I know they do a lot of living for others.I'm at oh 100%. I am, but I'm actually like really happy about some recent tough developments that have, you know, kind of, no, the question was, how old do you think you were when yo

Amanda, Shawn, and Rich are joined by our very own Ian Dorsch aka Podunk to discuss the creation and process of composing the score for Praey for the Gods. Games: Praey for the Gods (PC, PS5), Project Zomboid (PC), Chicory: A Colorful Tale (PC,Switch), Death's Door (PS5), Ghost of Tsushima: Director's Cut (PS5). To contact us, email call@gamerswithjobs.com! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about, or whatever else is on your mind. Links and Show Notes

Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is Introduction to Game Theory, Part 2: Nash Equilibria and Schelling Points, published by Scott Alexander. A Nash equilibrium is an outcome in which neither player is willing to unilaterally change her strategy, and they are often applied to games in which both players move simultaneously and where decision trees are less useful. Suppose my girlfriend and I have both lost our cell phones and cannot contact each other. Both of us would really like to spend more time at home with each other (utility 3). But both of us also have a slight preference in favor of working late and earning some overtime (utility 2). If I go home and my girlfriend's there and I can spend time with her, great. If I stay at work and make some money, that would be pretty okay too. But if I go home and my girlfriend's not there and I have to sit around alone all night, that would be the worst possible outcome (utility 1). Meanwhile, my girlfriend has the same set of preferences: she wants to spend time with me, she'd be okay with working late, but she doesn't want to sit at home alone. This “game” has two Nash equilibria. If we both go home, neither of us regrets it: we can spend time with each other and we've both got our highest utility. If we both stay at work, again, neither of us regrets it: since my girlfriend is at work, I am glad I stayed at work instead of going home, and since I am at work, my girlfriend is glad she stayed at work instead of going home. Although we both may wish that we had both gone home, neither of us specifically regrets our own choice, given our knowledge of how the other acted. When all players in a game are reasonable, the (apparently) rational choice will be to go for a Nash equilibrium (why would you want to make a choice you'll regret when you know what the other player chose?) And since John Nash (remember that movie A Beautiful Mind?) proved that every game has at least one, all games between well-informed rationalists (who are not also being superrational in a sense to be discussed later) should end in one of these. What if the game seems specifically designed to thwart Nash equilibria? Suppose you are a general invading an enemy country's heartland. You can attack one of two targets, East City or West City (you declared war on them because you were offended by their uncreative toponyms). The enemy general only has enough troops to defend one of the two cities. If you attack an undefended city, you can capture it easily, but if you attack the city with the enemy army, they will successfully fight you off. Here there is no Nash equilibrium without introducing randomness. If both you and your enemy choose to go to East City, you will regret your choice - you should have gone to West and taken it undefended. If you go to East and he goes to West, he will regret his choice - he should have gone East and stopped you in your tracks. Reverse the names, and the same is true of the branches where you go to West City. So every option has someone regretting their choice, and there is no simple Nash equilibrium. What do you do? Here the answer should be obvious: it doesn't matter. Flip a coin. If you flip a coin, and your opponent flips a coin, neither of you will regret your choice. Here we see a "mixed Nash equilibrium", an equilibrium reached with the help of randomness. We can formalize this further. Suppose you are attacking a different country with two new potential targets: Metropolis and Podunk. Metropolis is a rich and strategically important city (utility: 10); Podunk is an out of the way hamlet barely worth the trouble of capturing it (utility: 1). A so-called first-level player thinks: “Well, Metropolis is a better prize, so I might as well attack that one. That way, if I win I get 10 utility instead of 1” A second-level player thinks: “Obviously Metropolis is ...

Link to original articleWelcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is Introduction to Game Theory, Part 2: Nash Equilibria and Schelling Points, published by Scott Alexander. A Nash equilibrium is an outcome in which neither player is willing to unilaterally change her strategy, and they are often applied to games in which both players move simultaneously and where decision trees are less useful. Suppose my girlfriend and I have both lost our cell phones and cannot contact each other. Both of us would really like to spend more time at home with each other (utility 3). But both of us also have a slight preference in favor of working late and earning some overtime (utility 2). If I go home and my girlfriend's there and I can spend time with her, great. If I stay at work and make some money, that would be pretty okay too. But if I go home and my girlfriend's not there and I have to sit around alone all night, that would be the worst possible outcome (utility 1). Meanwhile, my girlfriend has the same set of preferences: she wants to spend time with me, she'd be okay with working late, but she doesn't want to sit at home alone. This “game” has two Nash equilibria. If we both go home, neither of us regrets it: we can spend time with each other and we've both got our highest utility. If we both stay at work, again, neither of us regrets it: since my girlfriend is at work, I am glad I stayed at work instead of going home, and since I am at work, my girlfriend is glad she stayed at work instead of going home. Although we both may wish that we had both gone home, neither of us specifically regrets our own choice, given our knowledge of how the other acted. When all players in a game are reasonable, the (apparently) rational choice will be to go for a Nash equilibrium (why would you want to make a choice you'll regret when you know what the other player chose?) And since John Nash (remember that movie A Beautiful Mind?) proved that every game has at least one, all games between well-informed rationalists (who are not also being superrational in a sense to be discussed later) should end in one of these. What if the game seems specifically designed to thwart Nash equilibria? Suppose you are a general invading an enemy country's heartland. You can attack one of two targets, East City or West City (you declared war on them because you were offended by their uncreative toponyms). The enemy general only has enough troops to defend one of the two cities. If you attack an undefended city, you can capture it easily, but if you attack the city with the enemy army, they will successfully fight you off. Here there is no Nash equilibrium without introducing randomness. If both you and your enemy choose to go to East City, you will regret your choice - you should have gone to West and taken it undefended. If you go to East and he goes to West, he will regret his choice - he should have gone East and stopped you in your tracks. Reverse the names, and the same is true of the branches where you go to West City. So every option has someone regretting their choice, and there is no simple Nash equilibrium. What do you do? Here the answer should be obvious: it doesn't matter. Flip a coin. If you flip a coin, and your opponent flips a coin, neither of you will regret your choice. Here we see a "mixed Nash equilibrium", an equilibrium reached with the help of randomness. We can formalize this further. Suppose you are attacking a different country with two new potential targets: Metropolis and Podunk. Metropolis is a rich and strategically important city (utility: 10); Podunk is an out of the way hamlet barely worth the trouble of capturing it (utility: 1). A so-called first-level player thinks: “Well, Metropolis is a better prize, so I might as well attack that one. That way, if I win I get 10 utility instead of 1” A second-level player thinks: “Obviously Metropolis is ...

Craig Curelop is an author and the co-founder of The FI Team, a group that focuses on helping people attain financial independence through real estate investing. In 2017, Craig took a 50% pay cut to move to Denver to work with bigger Pockets and begin his house-hacking journey. Craig achieved financial independence in about 2 years, climbing over a mountain of student debt on the way. When it comes to house hacking Craig is the guy you want to learn from.  In this episode, we cover what house hacking is, how to do it, and what it takes -- Just enough to inspire to jump into this powerful investment strategy.    Check out Craig's book here: https://store.biggerpockets.com/products/the-house-hacking-strategy Craig is @thefiguy on Instagram and Tic-Tok --- Transcript Before we jump into the episode, here's a quick disclaimer about our content. The Remote Real Estate Investor podcast is for informational purposes only, and is not intended as investment advice. The views, opinions and strategies of both the hosts and the guests are their own and should not be considered as guidance from Roofstock. Make sure to always run your own numbers, make your own independent decisions and seek investment advice from licensed professionals.   Michael: What's up everyone? Welcome to another episode of The Remote Real Estate Investor. I'm Michael Albaum. And today with us I have with me Craig Curelop who is an author, real estate investor, former BiggerPockets employee, and Craig's gonna be talking to us today about House hacking, how he did it, how you can do it too. And all the benefits it's afforded him over time. So let's get into it.   Craig Curelop, thanks so much for taking the time and joining me today. Man, I really appreciate you hanging out.   Craig: Yeah. Thanks, Michael, so much for having me on. It's a pleasure to be here.   Michael: Awesome. So today, I want to talk to you about House hacking. And I think you are one of the best versed people in the subject. And so for anyone who doesn't know you your story, can you give us a little bit of background on who you are? And kind of what you've done with your house hacks?   Craig: Yeah, for sure. So let's see, we can go back to I guess, 2016 When I absolutely hated my job, right? So.   Michael: Like so many   Craig: Like, Yeah, I think if you're listening to this podcast, you probably hated your job. At some point. If you're on the track toward financial independence, you felt some sort of pain from your job, right? Well, I felt a ton of pain. And I was like, Okay, how the heck do I get out of this? And I kind of fell into the financial independence community. But really, I found real estate investing first. I found it through. I found the idea of passive income through Tim Ferriss book. And then I found the idea of real estate investing through a friend who then introduced me to bigger pockets. And then I went down the rabbit hole of bigger pockets.   Michael: It's such a deep rabbit hole,   Craig: Oh its…  and you can't climb back out of it. Right. Yeah. And so you know, for months and months, I would be like listening to webinars, watching the podcasts and reading the books and all that stuff, just educated myself. And then in 2017, is when I actually moved from Silicon Valley to Denver to work at bigger pockets, which was like a dream come true. But then also start my real estate investing career.   Michael: Okay, that's awesome. So you moved. Were you? Did you give up a California Silicon Valley salary to take a pay cut to move to Denver?   Craig: Yeah. So all in, you know, if you include like the 401k match and all that stuff, I was making about 115-$120,000 a year in Silicon Valley. I accepted a job at bigger pockets for $65,000 a year.   Michael: Wow.   Craig: Almost a half a pay cut.   Michael: Okay. And then so then bring us up to speed. So you're working at bigger pockets, you got introduced to real estate investing. What next?   Craig: Yeah, so 2017. You know, it took me two months, working on bigger pockets to then buy a property in Denver. The property I purchased was just a mile and a half from the office. So like and walkable. It was a duplex that was totally finished. Right. You hear a lot of people in real estate podcasts be like, Oh, you got to like find the sweat equity and find the thing that needs work. Buy rehab, no, like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, no in a house hack. That is not what you want to do. You want to buy something that's turnkey, so you can move in and get it rented, ASAP. Because otherwise you're going to be paying for rehab. You're not going to get tenants. And the whole name of the game of house hacking is exactly one year later. You want to take what you saved and buy your next house hack, right. And so if you're doing a rehab and not collecting rent, you're taking away from the next next down payment.   Michael: Okay,   Craig: So that was my strategy for kind of getting some of this relatively turnkey now. So it was a duplex top bottom, one bed, one bath each unit, I was determined to make this thing cashflow, and live for free. So I purchased it for 385,000 I lived in the bottom rented out the top my mortgage payment was $2,000 a month. I was getting 1750 For the top so I wasn't quite getting it.   Michael: Start digging in couch cushions.   Craig: Yeah, that's right i mean living in this is maybe some you know, tapped into some of the my experience in Silicon Valley. I put up a futon in the living room and slept behind this curtain in room divider like cardboard box room divider thing. Slept behind that for a year while Airbnbing out my bedroom. So now that property was making me I was making $1,100 a month from the Airbnb on average. So 2850 in total rent a month $2,000 mortgage so I was making like 850 over the mortgage after reserves maybe like 600 or so. And I was living for free. Right and so   Michael: Amazing.   Craig: Yeah, that was my you know, my first story and I wanted out I want to be financially dependent, so bad that I really would do anything for it. And as at the time I was a 24 year old single guy All day, like take advantage of your situations, right?   Michael: Absolutely. Absolutely. So, looking in hindsight in the rearview mirror, I mean, is there anything you would have done differently on that first one are you like now I pretty much nailed it. Because it sounds like a home run.   Craig: Yeah. So I bought I got lucky, right? I bought in a really good area that I didn't know was that good. And you know, that $385,000 property is probably worth close to 600,000. Now, it's not over that. So and that misses, you know, we're talking four years later, four and a half years later. So like massive increase, right. But I got lucky there. And so had I know, I know now, I probably would have done a rent by the room situation, which is kind of what I did going forward after that. So I would buy a house in the suburbs, right a five bed two bath a five bed three bath live in one bedroom actually have my own private space with like a bed and a window and a closet and   Michael: Not just a curtain and a futon?   Craig: Not just a curtain, a futon, yeah. Right. And then I rent out the other rooms, they actually cashflow better, then, than the duplex did. I slept in a better place. The only downside about these suburban places is you don't get the same appreciation. So in a way, I'm happy because I got really good appreciation on this place. But, you know, at that time, I was like, Oh, you don't bank on appreciation.   Michael: So right, right. Okay, so in the rent by the room? Are you doing short term or long term rentals by the room or both? Craig: So we do long term rentals, six to 12 month leases, typically. But you can take it on a case by case basis. And just because I do a super 12 month lease doesn't mean you have to. I know plenty of people that do months a month, some people do it furnished, kind of like you know, three to six month lease on furnish finder. There's a million ways to do it. So there's not one right way. But I just liked the idea of get somebody in don't worry about it for another year.   Michael: Yeah, totally. And are you managing all the leases and the tenants and the relationships and all that sort of thing? Or do you have a property manager handle it for you?   Craig: At the time that I purchased that property? You know, this is 2018 I purchased my first rent by the room, I did do it myself, but I have since moved to property management and I no longer do it.   Michael: Okay, even when you're living in those properties, use a property manager or is this now once you move out, now you outsource the property management.   Craig: No even when I live in there, now I do the property management, right. So that's the luxury of having more real estate and getting more passive income. Right. It's that toasts things you don't like to do you just outsource because they can do better than you and you won't be doing it. So   Michael: Yeah. Have you ever seen that show Silicon Valley speaking?   Craig: I have seen that show. Yeah, not the whole thing. But I've seen probably two or three seasons.   Michael: That's what I picture you like you're like the Erlik Bachman character having all these other roommates.   Craig: Take like 20% equity of the company.   Michael: Startup incubator.   Craig: Yeah not a bad idea.   Michael: Yeah. So good. So So getting back to that first one, did you buy it very traditionally with 20%? Down? Are you were using like an FHA loan? How did you get into it? Cuz I think that's the biggest hurdle for so many new investors is this downpayment piece.   Craig: Yeah. So when I was back in 2017, when I bought my first one, the only way to do it with an FHA loan, right, like, and that's not really true. It's just the only way that I knew how to do it. And the only way that was kind of popularized. Okay, so the only way to house hack that I knew of was you buy a duplex, triplex or quad, live in one unit rent out the others. That's why the single family wasn't really on my radar. So because of that, I had to do a 3.5% down FHA loan on that first one.   Michael: Okay. Awesome. And now, knowing what you know, now, I mean, what tools you find at your disposal and your tool belt to, to get into properties?   Craig: Yeah, so I recommend if you're going to do you know, depends on your market and whatnot, but in Denver, duplexes, and triplexes. And quads are really hard to cash flow. So I really like doing the single family homes on single family homes, you can do 5%, down conventional, and what the great thing about that is, is you can have pretty much as many conventional loans as you want. And the limit is like 10, but you know, it's not one with FHA loan is just one, right. So in order to get that FHA loan back, you'd have to refinance. And it's sometimes it's hard to refinance. Because if you put in 3.5%, down, you have to refinance, such that you can pull 25% out, loan to value have to be 75%. And so I was fortunate in that property and appreciate it like crazy. I have refinanced that one, I do have my FHA loan back in my pocket now, but again, right, like in 2017, I didn't know where we'd be in 2021.   Michael: Right, right. Okay. And so just taking a total step back, I'm realizing that many people might not even know what a house hack is, give us your definition of what a house hack is.   Craig: Yeah, so the house hack house hack is the idea that you purchase a one to four unit property with a low percent down, typically 0% to 5% down, you those if you have a zero to 5% down, you're required to live there for one year. So you move in you live there for one year, and while you're living there, you're renting out the other rooms or the other units, and that rent is covering your mortgage and you're either living for free or drastically reducing your living expense, while purchasing and owning property. And you can do this every single year systematically. So you build up a decent portfolio for yourself.   Michael: That's awesome. So Craig, do you think it's the best place to start? Or could you house hack even after you have a pretty sizable portfolio?   Craig: I mean, you can have a sec anytime, right? I think it is absolutely the best place to start. Because in frankly, it's really good. Because you really can't have a better return on your 20 or $30,000. Right? Because you're you're you're purchasing, I can purchase a $500,000 property for 30. Grand, right? Between if that appreciates just 10% $50,000. Right, that's 100% return right there, that doesn't include the cash flow, the loan pay down and all the tax benefits that you get so.   So we're seeing like, we help a lot of people get into housefax. And I've done quite a few myself, and every single one has 100% or more total return on investment.   Michael: That's so good.   Craig: If you've got right, like, it's not it, I think it can be for everybody. But like, if you're Elon Musk, or Bill Gates, like, do you think they care about putting $20,000 down? Right, like they can't be bothered, right? So there are people that you know, if your net worth is in, you know, 10s of millions of dollars, then like, you know, you probably don't care, and you're probably well off enough where you don't need to buy either $20,000 or $30,000, you'd probably rather, you know, spend 300,000 or $500,000 to put your money somewhere a little bit more efficiently.   Michael: Okay. Love it. Love it. So Craig, have you now purchased traditional rentals in the traditional sense, like just pure rentals without having ever lived there?   Craig: Yeah, yep. So I have six traditional rentals in North Carolina, and I've got one here in Denver, and then two plots of land, which we're building on one of them in Florida.   Michael: Oh, man, that's frickin exciting. And you became financially independent over the last couple years, right?   Craig: That's right. Yeah. 2019 is when I officially hit the financial independence mark, and I went from a negative net worth of $30,000. But when I bought my first property to financially free and like a little over two years,   Michael: That's incredible. And so house hacking, was that the main vehicle that you were using, or did you do something else to juice it?   Craig: Oh, there was a lot of house hacking was by far the biggest thing. Probably 70% of that was because of house hacking. But I had a big student loan obligation, I had a $90,000 student loan, student loans. I think the payment was 800 bucks or something like that.   Michael: Okay,   Craig: So I had to wipe that out. And I did that through I rented my car out onto Touro, which was about an extra $700 a month, I did some Airbnb arbitrage where I rented a place for my buddy, pay him month rent each month, put it on Airbnb, and I kept the difference.   Michael: So good.   Craig: Yeah, that was probably like, maybe 10 or $15,000. Over the course of a year, we ended up getting shut down because the condo didn't allow Airbnbs. But it was good while it lastes. And then also, I got I asked my job, this is probably the biggest kind of lump sum things that I got. Is that a bigger pockets? I went and I asked my boss, hey, is there anything that I can do outside of my current scope of work, that would drive revenue and drive the business forward that I could also be paid for? Right? So basically asking for a bonus, but not just asking for it? Because I deserve it, but actually earning? Right? Like, how can I provide value to the company and then the company can be they give me a fraction of the value that I provided back? So it's a win win? And so that was another thing that I did. And I think I did that twice? For a total of, like, $45,000.   Michael: Nice. And just out of curiosity, I do. What did they say? Were they like, why would you ask that? I mean, How was that received? Because that's not a question that I hear people going and asking their bosses on any kind of regularity.   Craig: Yeah. So you know, we work bigger pockets is a was was a pretty small company at the time. And they were all about the hustle and all that right. And so I just figured, hey, it didn't hurt to ask, right? How do you be creative. And there was this project that was on the back burner for a while, but it kept wanting to get out of it kept wanting to get it out. They kept wanting to get it out. But like no one was the person to do it. And I was just asked, Hey, can I like, Can I do it? And can I get paid for it? And so what we did was the landlord forums. So we've I basically got in contact with a lawyer and every single state asked him to review our landlord forms, put them up on the BiggerPockets site for them to sell or include as part of the pro membership. And so because of because of that, they were like, yeah, we'll pay you $500 per state. So quick math, that's 25 grand. Right? And I'm like, like, Heck yeah, we'll do that.   Michael: That's incredible. So you were just hustling your your butt off for two, two and a half years and investing the whole time.   Craig: Oh, Yeah, I mean, I was saving mostly right, because I was, I was saving just everything I made from my house hacks. Everything I made from my job, I was very, very frugal, even at 40, and then those lump sum kind of bonuses and all that I would use to pay down my student loans. And you could argue that wasn't the most efficient use of my money. But my student loans were actually kind of expensive. They were like, 6%. But again, House hacks, or, you know, they never gotten in my way of house hacking. So as long as they're not in my way of house hacking, they're doing me good. And I just wanted to see that payment get removed, because like, once, once that debt is released, is just, you know, everything takes off.   Michael: You're off to the races. Yeah. So that's such I mean, such a great question. And a question that I get regularly as part of the Tech Academy is like, Hey, I've got these other debts here. And I also want to invest, where do I spend my money? First? What are your thoughts there?   Craig: Yeah, I think I think a house hack is always the number one thing that you should do. Right? And it also depends on the returns that you're expecting. So if you're expecting returns that are like 5-6-7 percent, and your loans are like 5-6-7 percent, you might as well pay off your loans, because you're paying it off with no risk. Whereas your 6% 7% is a risky six to 7%.   So yeah, there's no, there's no right or wrong way. Like I people. People have told me oh, you should have paid like you should pay off your all your debt first, before you start investing? It's like, well, no, because a house hack will make me 100%. And my student loans are at 6%. Right? That's a massive difference. I paid off my student loans in like 15 months, you know, like, I would never have been able to do that. If I was still saving to pay down my student loans. I still am paying them off today. Yeah, right.   Michael: So it's so good. It's so good. I've heard the response, a rebuttal to when suggested house hacking. Oh, but my won't cover my full payment, or I'm still gonna be paying 2500 bucks a month, whatever my mortgage? I mean, what do you say to people that have that response? Like, oh, if I don't live for free, it's it's a loss, or I didn't do it, right.   Craig: You do not need to live for free to have a successful house hack, especially if you're in a more expensive market, it's really hard to make it live to live for free. I know, I know, people that are house hacking in the Bay Area in LA in Chicago, like, more expensive places, for sure. Yeah. And they're not covering their mortgage, but maybe they're paying $1,000 a month to live in a place that would typically cost him two or $3,000 a month. So that's $1,000 in savings right there. And that's massive. So and not to mention that you're still going to get if you're in one of those big cities. You know, those cities tend to appreciate a lot faster than if you're in Podunk. Somewhere. Right. So yeah, I just think that, you know, those, get the getting that appreciation makes you very makes you very rich.   Michael: Yeah, yeah, I know one more. I'm actually about to close on my first Beriah house hack here in a couple weeks.   Craig: There you go.   Michael: Yeah, I'll we'll circle back in a couple of months. And I'll tell you how it's gone. Yeah, please do pretty soon. And so now I'm just curious. We always joke on these podcasts. They can be so self serving in going the short term rental route for the because basically it's a it's a full three two with an upstairs unit with a full adu short term rental, mid term rental or long term rental. What are your thoughts there for the house act?   Craig: Obviously depends on like where you are stuff. You're buying your place in San Francisco.   Michael: In Petaluma, so the North Bay,   Craig: Okay, okay. Yeah, I mean, if there's a good Airbnb market, and there's not rules and regulations, I would say, Airbnb will probably make you the most money. However, you know, you have a little bit more volatility, right, with summers are probably really good winters, maybe stink. You know, if there's a pandemic that hits then you're kind of screwed, right. Like, there's more, there's more risks with short term, medium term. Usually, it's like traveling nurses, they're always going to be Yeah, furnish finder. So those are good usually can charge a little bit more than on a long term. And then on a long term, obviously, everyone knows what that is so. I would say like, you should have plan A, plan B, plan C, right? So if you're gonna maybe your Airbnb in it for a couple years, while your nest egg is small to get a larger return on your investment, but then you maybe decide that you don't want to live and die by Airbnb reviews, you don't want to manage it, or you don't even want to manage a manager that's managing it. And then you're so you decide, you know, I'm going to switch it to a long term rental, and make it easy and a little bit more passive.   So yeah, whatever floats your boat. Because,   Michael: Yeah, that makes total sense. Cool, man. So now, it's so fun. We're jumping all over the place. But this is great. So turn the clock to yours, you become financially independent. I mean, you've reached the pinnacle of what so many of our listeners are trying to achieve. So what did you do? I mean, I don't see you on a beach with a Muy Thai in your hand right now. So what have you been spending your time doing over the last couple of years?   Craig: You know, I actually once I became financially independent, is when I quit my job, right? Because now I've got that buffer. a safety net. And I went in and basically started helping other people achieve financial independence through real estate investing through being a real estate agent. And so for the first year, right in 2020, I was basically just doing it all myself, I think I did, I did almost 100 deals myself that year. And I was running around like a chicken with my head cut off   Michael: That's like one every three days.   Craig: Yeah, it was nuts. It was nuts, for sure. And I was like, Okay, I'm either going to quit this, or build a team. And so we decided to build a team of investor friendly realtors in so that are all house hackers that are all investors. So we can talk topic and walk the walk, we got the vendors, we got the contractors, we're literally like a turnkey agent service, where wherever you need we guy. And we have, we're also building a really cool community of people here in Denver, of house hackers. So like, can surround like, we can all build each other up. And you know, we can all love each other. And someday, when we're all finally dependent, we can hang out with each other because no one's hanging out with a bunch of old people when you're in your 30s. Right.   Michael: I think that's the biggest problem. becoming financially independent young is like none of your friends, you don't have any homies to go play with.   Craig: you'll make friends that are financially independent, if you're in the community, if you're, if you're like achieving this financial independence, and you don't have a friend group that's doing it, then you got to find that friend group in your city, because I guarantee you it's in every city, you just got to find the people that are doing it. And then you'll find that you kind of transition away from your friends not pursuing it and hang out a little bit more with your friends that are.   Michael: That makes total sense. So now that you're an agent, I mean, how should people approach finding a house hacking friendly agent, if they're interested in doing this for themselves? Because not every real estate agent, as you know, are created equal?   Craig: Oh, for sure. They're hard. They're hard to find, right? Like you can reach out to me, honestly, we have a massive network of real estate agents all around the country that are investor friendly. So @thefiguy, you can just shoot me a message and we'll coordinate.   Michael: Awesome.   Craig: Or, you know, I think if you go on to bigger pockets and shoot out a message in the forums, that's a good place. BiggerPockets has an agent, kind of finder as well, it's pretty good. But those guys, the only my only shtick with that is you just got to make sure you've got them, right, because I'm not sure that I think BiggerPockets is vetting them, but we don't know how well they're vetting them. And so it's always so don't blame BiggerPockets if you find an agent through their site, and they suck, right, like it's still on you to vet them. And there's a handful of questions that can be asked and all that kind of stuff.   Michael: Awesome. Awesome. And I love it. I love it. So you're working as an agent, you got a full team, what's next for you?   Craig: Yeah, so we're continuing to grow the team. So we just expanded into Colorado Springs. So now we're kind of covering all the Front Range in Colorado, and we're looking to kind of just keep expanding kind of throughout the country. So, you know, we don't know where we're going next. But we're planning to, you know, hopefully hit all 50 states, and just help. You know, our whole goal is help people achieve financial independence through real estate investing. Our big hairy audacious goal is to reduce the US retirement age to 55.   Michael: So Killer.   Craig: Yeah, so if we can get enough people to start house hacking, or even just start seeking financial independence, even if it's not the real estate, you know, I think that number could easily be put downward cuz I think it's going up now. I think it's like, 67. I heard it's like, they're pushing it up. So   Michael: Yeah, I think the age that you can collect social security keeps getting pushed up. That's crazy.   Craig: Yeah, let's let's have a bunch of young, financially free retired people. So we can actually like love it, do something and change the world with our newfound energy.   Michael: With the with the time and money that we have.   Craig: Yeah, absolutely.   Michael: Yeah. That's so good. Craig, you also wrote a book, which is so humbly not mentioning, what's it called? And what can people expect to find in it if they pick it up?   Craig: Yeah, so the book is called the house hacking strategy. It's published through bigger pockets. And basically it is your how to guide in the house hack. Basically walk you step by step through the entire house hack process, whether it's finding a deal, getting the loan, analyze the deal, getting your tenants you know asking those questions like What questions did you ask your lender? What questions did you ask your realtor? Just you can reiterate your playbook for a house hack so yeah, I think I definitely poured my heart and soul into it. And yeah, it's been it's been doing well   Michael: That's great and that's available on Amazon on bigger pockets where can people find it?   Craig: Yeah, you can find it you can go to bigger pockets calm slash house hack that there you can find the book as well as other bonus material that's only sold on bigger pockets. I think I give you like the house hacking calculator. Some leases like some rent by the room type leases a couple other things and then all your purchase purchases on Amazon. It's cheaper, but you don't get all that all the sweet stuff. So   Michael: Okay. Right on. So yeah, definitely. All you listeners go check that I've read it. It's a great book. I think you really We're going to enjoy it. So Greg, I'm curious, where have you seen people go wrong with House hacking? Because I mean, it sounds great. In theory, it sounds like you can't lose. But like with every investment, there's got to be some risks and downsides. So where have you seen people get tripped up?   Craig: Honestly, like, I've never met a person that's bought a house hack that regrets it. However, I'm totally serious. Like, I, I've literally never seen it, but where I see people potentially tripping up, and they're not that they trip up, it's just that they don't make it as efficient as possible, is the kind of slack I'm trying to get tenants in. Right. And so I decided, like, once you go under, once you get past the appraisal process, like the thing is probably going to close. So get right, get, you know, get your listing up, start creating it, like the minute you close. Start, try and start trying to find tenants. And, you know, post, get your listing posted, and then go into your Facebook groups that reach out to people and ask around, hey, does anybody know anybody looking for a room? And, you know, if you're proactive and get it done, I see people renting out five, six rooms in two or three weeks. So   Michael: Holy crap,   Craig: Yeah if you're proactive on it, right? But if you're not and you think they're just gonna, everyone's gonna come to you in only three or four months. So   Michael: Yeah, yeah. And so aside from Airbnb furnish finder, maybe Facebook, where are you seeing people post their listing that gets a lot of traction? Are those really the main sites?   Craig: Those are those are big ones. Facebook marketplace is really big. You know, if you're going to rent by the room, there's roomies and Roomster, which are really good. If you're gonna do your traditional kind of rental, like if you're doing a duplex, you want to rent out a four unit. You know, Zillow, Trulia, hot pads, all those typical, typical sites. Yeah,   Michael: That's awesome. And in terms of screening tenants, I mean, I've used I live with roommates for forever. And I'm very comfortable having that conversation on how to screen a roommate. But how do you screen a tenant a potential tenant?   Craig: Yeah, so the first thing you want to do is, is basically like, so someone says they're interested, right? You put all your criteria in the listing, right? So if it's, Hey out, you know, you need a 700 credit score, clean background, clean credit, whatever, like, you got to put all your criteria listed in the in the listing, okay, hopefully, that screens people, but some people are stupid, and they just, they just request it anyway. Or they don't read it. Yeah. And so usually, if someone, if I'm getting a lot of feedback, like, hey, I want to come see they want to come see it, I want to come see it. I hold like an open house type thing.   So that way, you know, people stands you up, they're not wasting your time, right? It's like, hey, on Thursday, from five to 7pm, I'm going to be at the house, come by and see, please, and I sit there, and I just like my computer, whatever. And as they come in, I show em the house. And honestly, I've only ever once I feel this a million times, only one time have I ever had two people show up at once. So some sort of serendipity there. I don't know, maybe I'm just lucky. But and even if they do show up to people at once, it's kind of nice, because then it shows like this in competition, like whoever it was quick,   Michael: I got a rush.   Craig: Yeah. And so you know, just by seeing them in person and talking to them and showing them the house in that five or 10 minutes, you get a pretty good idea of whether you want to live with this person or not. So if they seem cool, you say, hey, like, Yeah, I'll send you an application, fill out the application. We'll go from there. And then on that application, you know, they got to do a background check, a credit check, pay stubs, land, land, past landlord, recommend, references, employer reference, all these things. And like, make sure that they meet your criteria. And if they meet your criteria, you let them in, if they don't see ya.   Michael: Love it. Love it. Man, crack. This has been so awesome. Any final tips for folks, as we're getting you out of here?   Craig: he whole point of house hacking is to get started and get started soon. Time is your biggest enemy on House hacking. So don't go and try to look for like the best you with the best value add or whatever it is right? Just like look what's on the market right now. And try to figure out what is the best deal that's on the market right now? And try to go after it. Because again, right? Like, if you wait six months and find a good deal, right? That means you can't buy your second property for a year in six months. So you're losing out on six months of appreciation, six months of cash flow six months of tax benefits, and that that compounds every year, right? So then it's like, Okay, the next one, you can apply to yours in six months. And if you like, you know, I did this analysis one time where it's like, what if someone bought an okay deal every year for 10 years, versus someone bought an amazing deal every 18 months. The person who bought one deal a year for 10 years, ends up being like a million dollars richer than the person who just buys one every 18 months, because they've got 10 properties versus like five or six.   Michael: Yeah, that's so nuts. That's so nuts. Man. Real estate is this insane vehicle when you start really getting into the weeds and running models like that. That's incredible.   Craig: That's true.   Michael: Awesome. Well, Craig, if people want to learn more about you, where can they reach out? Learn about you ask you questions. Have people get in touch?   Craig: Yeah, so we have a podcast it's called investor fi. We have you know, I think a similar audience so definitely feel free to check that out as well as the fire guy on Instagram and tick tock so feel free to hit me up on Instagram Tik Tok   Michael: Right on thanks again Craig for hanging out appreciate you Take care man talk to you soon.   Craig: See you Michael thanks for having me on.   Michael: Alrighty everyone that was our show a big thank you to Craig for coming on and hanging out with me. I had a lot of fun. I always joke I get to selfishly ask all these professionals and experts questions that I've had on my mind. Hopefully you got a lot out of it and are thinking about now house hacking because I think it's a pretty kick butt way to get started or to help boost your real estate investing career. As always check us out wherever you listen to your podcast, give us a rating or review. We look forward to seeing the next one and Happy investing    

Today's top story, many guitars died to bring you this song and later, city of Podunk refutes false claims. Written and Produced by: J.B. Davis News Theme by Kevin MacLeod Link:https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/4122-news-theme License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Letter to the editor parameters: Original work containing approximately 130 words. Subject can vary from anything about author's life, whether fictional or true (Jesting Journal type stories are preferred, but not required). Must be appropriate for all ages. Credit will be given to the name of the author unless stated otherwise. No payment for accepted work. Author's own satisfaction is priceless. Send to TheJestingJournal@gmail.com with “Letter to the Editor” as the subject.

Congressman Doug Lamborn shoots his mouth off..............again. Presidential mandates? Who's issued them? Is a booster on the way? What's the hospitalization cost of treating Covid-19/Delta?  How's El Paso County fairing?  Does the Handmaiden's Tale relate to what's happening in Texas? How can an ordinance in a Podunk town, Waskom, in Texas blow up Roe vs. Wade? Is Texas trying to gut our Constitution?  The rally at the U.S. Capitol, will it be the second insurrection? 

Pastor Newms: [0:11] All right we're they can hear us.   Pastor Bill: [0:13] Cool we said it's so weird.   Pastor Newms: [0:19] Although the little weekly episode thing didn't didn't show for some reason.   Pastor Bill: [0:29] The image that's weird.   Pastor Newms: [0:43] I don't remember what button it is to look at the other thing to launch there's a button I can press and it lets me edit a screen while I'm displaying a different screen. Try to see why but I don't know how to do it for some reason. Like I can't.   Pastor Bill: [1:53] With our faces live.   Pastor Newms: [1:54] Yeah or else it'll restart the countdown.   Pastor Bill: [1:57] Why was there one-and-a-half countdowns in that.   Pastor Newms: [2:02] Where did we have ready.   Pastor Bill: [2:02] You know just want to show everybody has plenty of time to show up.   Pastor Newms: [2:08] Divided we have 17 and a half thingies why was there 45 minutes of countdown Newms was playing with stuff again.   [2:20] Hey go go big or go home man.   Pastor Bill: [2:27] That is the Texas motto go big or go back to California that's just that's how we roll. It's already people have been moving here from California its rear.   Pastor Newms: [2:39] And the funny thing is like California is claiming it's not happening they're like no one's actually leaving I saw.   Pastor Bill: [2:50] People are showing up all the time from California in Texas I just moved here from California.   Pastor Newms: [2:56] I saw this news article it was like the great California migration is not actually happening and I was like. Huh that's interesting all right I don't even want to read the article because yeah. Hmm. Well it's one of those percentages let's look at percentages the number of people that are leaving really isn't that big it just feels like it's huge because.   Pastor Bill: [3:34] It's a feel the impact here. Of all the people who are coming to Texas from other states it feels like the majority of them are coming from California.   Pastor Newms: [3:49] And there's this other thing going on right now in New York it was Morgan's the CEO of Morgan Stanley I think it was released this thing about how, they are not going to continue. Employees cannot expect to make New York rates if they're not working in New York. Because during the pandemic you know a lot of people won't work from home and then a lot of people moved because companies are like we're going to go to work from home. As a benefit you know blah blah blah and now some companies are like okay it's time to come back and people are like.   [4:39] Or I don't want to and they're like okay well we're not going to pay you the same because if you're not having his argument was if you're not having to pay to live in New York why should I pay you like you live in New York. And it was like I was like hmm. Well obviously we now know why the CEO of Stanley Morgan house and the CEO of Stanley Morgan pays his employees which is bare minimum hey they can see your face now I didn't do any countdown for you they can see your face now.   Pastor Bill: [5:17] Cool I'm clean my glasses for like the last three minutes.   Pastor Newms: [5:20] It was literally like one second but I was just like hmm.   Pastor Bill: [5:28] Okay so officially welcome to the live recording of season 3 episode 37 of the Berean Manifesto; Faith, Hope, and Love for the Modern Christian if you're listening to this as a podcast that has been proved recorded, then you are invited to come join us on Sunday evenings at 6:30 p.m. Central Standard Time, most Sundays we take a Sunday off here or there from time to time but it's rare that we take a Sunday off and we would love for you to come and watch live as we broadcast, Pastor Newms and myself recording this podcast you can do that on Facebook, YouTube, and Twitch. We used to have Periscope before they went Belly Up, and hopefully Twitter will follow suite because that is a dark place with lots of hurting people that want to hurt, and so.   Pastor Newms: [6:35] It's cuz the moderation is so low the the the community guidelines allow for so much it's kind of like.   Pastor Bill: [6:43] It's bad man.   Pastor Newms: [6:44] It's kind of like super super publicized Reddit because Twitter allows pretty much anything.   Pastor Bill: [6:53] I never go onto Twitter the only stuff that shows all the Twitter from my stuff is stuff that's pushed their from other places as an automatic push I never go to Twitter to post I never go to Twitter to read I, I got disgusted by Twitter a very long time ago, and I think Matt Smith's doctor said it best when he said Twitter so.   Pastor Newms: [7:25] Which I updated my pops and one of them wrong side is an adipose.   Pastor Bill: [7:34] Barely see that yeah.   Pastor Newms: [7:35] I know I tried to install some nice lighting.   Pastor Bill: [7:39] There you go now I can see it.   Pastor Newms: [7:40] And I thought it was going to work and it doesn't and shows up really really bad in stream and then I tried to mess with it.   Pastor Bill: [7:46] You're with your red lights off I can actually see the axe now.   Pastor Newms: [7:52] Which makes no sense because the whole reason why we did it was because you couldn't see it two weeks ago.   Pastor Bill: [7:59] So what it looks like right now is that you painted the shape of an axe in vanta black 2.0 onto the desk that's what it looks like.   Pastor Newms: [8:10] Totally not the case hey you want to see how fast we get band off YouTube.   Pastor Bill: [8:16] Pretty quick if you keep swinging that around.   Pastor Newms: [8:18] Sorry I just thought about that, one of my favorite channels on YouTube actually got demonetized this week and the.   Pastor Bill: [8:27] Oh no.   Pastor Newms: [8:28] The two people that run the channel were crying effectively because.   Pastor Bill: [8:34] Such a mat such a Minefield trying to monetize your YouTube and then, these companies it data either don't make it clear enough or people just don't think to hire a lawyer to read the community guidelines to explain to them.   Pastor Newms: [8:50] Well that's.   Pastor Bill: [8:51] Isn't isn't acceptable.   Pastor Newms: [8:52] This particular show like this particular channel is so big that they actually get approval from YouTube before anything is posted, so they go through an approval approval process to post so every video they submit it, they wait and then it gets approved and that's after the editors that they have that they've hired, actually go in and put extra stuff and you know the whole nine and, so all of their videos are approved by YouTube and then someone went in, and demonetized in one day 3/4 of their backlog and they post multiple videos a day and it, they've made it their entire, you know social media is their entire career it's a it's a I don't even think their fiance's it's MRX play, MRX plays and he does streaming and she does streaming and then they have a channel together where they do stuff and they're both on Twitch and you know there, they're funny and.   [10:09] It's it's so it was so heartbreaking because I saw like the thumbnail you know they do the click bait thumbnails it's one of the things they're known for and so you're like who who's and and I was like, wait why is she crying that's not a fun clickbait thumbnail usually it's like something that's, borderline inappropriate with like a thing over it so that way it's not not inappropriate like you and you're like I um, and and they were just on their crying because, angry angry and crying and you know just everything because their entire Channel and they actually showed screenshots of it and it was like just due to do to all of them demonetised and then there'd be one that wasn't, and then all of them and then one that wasn't for some reason and it's just like. And all of them had been approved gone through the approval it's just social media and making a career out of it is rough and, you know every now and then I think about it I'm like I think I could do that I think we could I think I can get and then I see stuff like that I'm like I don't wanna, I'll stick to my day job like.   Pastor Bill: [11:30] Have the rug pulled out from underneath you like that is.   Pastor Newms: [11:34] And I know no logic behind it is the other frustrating thing you know there's no, it's like I was talking to another friend of mine who's working on a game and he's like we're going to have it's a streamer based game and I was like oh that's great and sounds great and he's like and we're going to have you know one of the aspects is you can play, music because people like to play and I was like what kind and it's like oh well it's drm-free, you know licensed and allow and you're like well, just so you know twitch keeps popping people for that still because it's close enough to a regular song that their algorithm picks it up and pops them Cyberpunk 2077 went through that where they had to, there was a setting that was like monetized or demonetized. Music and then people were still getting popped for having music and it's like so the world of social media is a Minefield to say the least, trying to make a, anything out of it you're trying to make money off of it.   Pastor Bill: [12:53] Yeah.   Pastor Newms: [12:55] Or have people find your stuff either way you know.   [13:05] Yeah and that's the other thing if your if your stuff is not mocked the monetized stuff of course gets recommended more often than the demonetized stuff so you know, anyway how was your week Pastor Bill.   Pastor Bill: [13:21] You're supposed to say about your week first otherwise I get all off track and.   Pastor Newms: [13:25] I just did a 13-minute diatribe on something completely different do I really have to.   Pastor Bill: [13:30] How was your week Pastor Newms.   [13:42] Dollar dollar hay dolor de la a $8,000 $8,000.   Pastor Newms: [13:49] See he claims it folks you all saw it and heard it something anyway that was pretty good busy I changed my office around a little bit, like I said I refresh to the behind me I installed lights that don't actually work let's count you you want to you want to play don't count.   Pastor Bill: [14:06] Let's count the screens - uno dos tres cuatro cinco.   Pastor Newms: [14:11] So so and then and then I did this.   Pastor Bill: [14:15] Go screens.   Pastor Newms: [14:17] And it just it I don't I hate it I don't like it at all.   Pastor Bill: [14:24] Is there a is there a Min because because the podcast version they can't hear what you're saying but it's the string of red lights.   Pastor Newms: [14:30] Yep.   Pastor Bill: [14:31] Over top of your pops behind you and over top of your new acts that you bought is there a lip on that shelf under that a shovel you could put it under to hide the light.   Pastor Newms: [14:41] There's not, and so it's all good it's just it's one of those things where and you know those LED lights are like seven bucks so it's not like I've blown a bunch of money on it or something it's just, frustrating when you're like this would be nice and then you put it on your like that looks terrible but yes I do now have so I have my two screens for, my personal computer and my camera in the Middle High, and then I have my main computer and then I have work screen one, which is the actual laptop which you guys can't see and then screen to and then screen 3 which you guys can see and then my whiteboard, up above it and then Tina's desk is still there because we haven't moved it yet.   [15:31] Yeah I rotate it around my pops though I like to do that every now and then, I got some of the Skyrim ones back out the the White run guard, which if you don't know cause you don't know a fun thing about him is there's a line in the game where every time you you know you talked to the guards there's random things they say write one of the things is, haven't I took an arrow to the knee, and if they say it constantly and it's just it gets to a point where like I'm going to put an arrow in your knee like you're just annoying and the pop actually has an arrow in his knee.   [16:16] And so it's like how nice so.   Pastor Bill: [16:21] Yeah so my work is good caught the season finale of Loki season one lucky finale it was fantastic no spoilers but it was visually stunning, I highly recommend everyone go see the Loki series on Disney Plus.   Pastor Newms: [16:40] That's another thing that I hate social media for but that's beside the point.   Pastor Bill: [16:44] Oh because of spoilers.   Pastor Newms: [16:45] While of the spoiler alert but while they're doing spoiler alert the tags on the bottom and the text behind them clearly spoils it and you're like it doesn't it doesn't help. You've already spoiled it for me now so I know who the bad guy is because your class played as him and then you say spoiler alert as opposed to just cosplaying as the guy and if you get it you get it but now.   Pastor Bill: [17:17] Even that you went a little farther after I just said no spoilers.   Pastor Newms: [17:17] Anyway no I didn't I didn't go any far I said there's a main bad guy what does that tell anybody there's always a main bad guy.   Pastor Bill: [17:31] Sometimes it was a main bad girl.   Pastor Newms: [17:36] I'm using the gender inclusive guy not the actual guy.   Pastor Bill: [17:41] The guy named guy guy fog to folks who blew up the tried to blow up Parliament.   Pastor Newms: [17:46] Like like I don't actually know who the guy is I just know that there is a guy I guess.   Pastor Bill: [17:55] Okay.   Pastor Newms: [17:56] But let's be honest it's Marvel so knowing there's a guy.   Pastor Bill: [18:03] Knowing the list of bad guys from Marvel doesn't really help you.   Pastor Newms: [18:06] Doesn't help you at all like and especially when you're talking about something like Loki because it's one of those where it's like who hasn't he made mad like anyone anyone.   Pastor Bill: [18:20] HPuff says you could have said that a bad y'all Roxanne on YouTube says you could have said the big bad.   Pastor Newms: [18:27] I hate the term the big bad.   Pastor Bill: [18:28] HPuff also says bad person or bad them you didn't have to say bad guy.   Pastor Newms: [18:33] I just said bad guy. I don't even yeah I said bad guy because the person I was complaining about was a guy I don't I don't even know if the character is to be honest.   Pastor Bill: [18:49] So they're coming out with Pops that are based off the Loki he series and if you don't want spoilers then don't go look up the Pops because good Lord, um but there is one Pop in particular that I want but I can't tell you which one it is because just saying the name of the Pop would be a spoiler and I don't want to spoil the adventure for anybody that is going to go watch the Loki series, but there will be a season 2 which is fantastic, the final scene you know they do to they did an extra scene at the, mid-credits on the last episode and it was a file folder and a pancake down and put a stamp and then when the stamp came off it was a red stamp that said look he will return for season 2, which was how they confirmed that there'd be a season 2.   Pastor Newms: [19:41] That's a nice way of confirming it.   Pastor Bill: [19:44] So that was fun, and let's see we had some birthdays this week my mother-in-law her husband my father-in-law my son my wife, all of their birthdays were this week so we celebrated all of that so that was fun and we had a, party yesterday where we dressed up as characters from the show Gravity Falls, and it was amazing it was so much fun I dressed up as Sous I put a big question mark in Black duct tape on my shirt and I talked in a Soos voice all day, um except for when I was on the phone with Newms I use my normal voice for that but the rest of the day when I was at the party I was using my Soos voice.   Pastor Newms: [20:39] Which I had to not get get mad at somebody but I got real mad at somebody that was at the party with you because I heard them twice call you Zeus. And I was like.   Pastor Bill: [20:57] It isnt Zeus. I can't tell you nominate my name is Soos its short for Jesus it's Soos.   Pastor Newms: [21:08] It was it was.   Pastor Bill: [21:09] What.   Pastor Newms: [21:10] It was that is a show that I really wish they had made more of, it ends well but there's always next summer like.   Pastor Bill: [21:25] Right it could have gone another summer.   Pastor Newms: [21:28] You could have easily gone back I want Dipper as an adult.   Pastor Bill: [21:31] Crammed so much into one summer like so much so yeah.   Pastor Newms: [21:38] But it was funny because the girls were watching it the girls are always watching it at some point it's kind of one of their go-to shows but they were watching it at some point, and it's really funny hearing some of the voices from other shows that the Collision house does not recommend, but comes on in about two hours and.   Pastor Bill: [22:02] On a human level we recommend them for people who have strong spiritual beliefs that allow them. To watch and interact with things like that but as a church.   Pastor Newms: [22:14] Yes we do.   Pastor Bill: [22:16] I commend those that are weak of spirit.   Pastor Newms: [22:18] Yes.   Pastor Bill: [22:19] And so are easily beset to avoid certain.   Pastor Newms: [22:23] Yes I do not recommend in any way people watch shows that are inappropriate that they cannot handle because they are spiritually not at a point where they can but.   Pastor Bill: [22:36] For those of you that.   Pastor Newms: [22:36] The rest of us.   Pastor Bill: [22:37] The podcast Pastor Newms is currently holding up a pop of Rick and Morty where Rick is a bear.   Pastor Newms: [22:45] No it's a clone.   Pastor Bill: [22:46] Well it's a he's a Teddy Rick is a wasn't that the Rick from another, another dimension.   Pastor Newms: [22:56] So I keep some of my Pops in my room Mister Poopy Butthole is one of them, HP Phoenix asked where my Mr. Poopy Butthole Pop is and he stays in my room just because it doesn't need to be behind me because there's only so many times you can say Mr. Poopy Butthole and I think we are already past the allowable times so.   [23:30] I love that show.   Pastor Bill: [23:31] Okay.   Pastor Newms: [23:31] Oh so what I was going to say about that show you mentioned the Loki ending getting moving thing so they've done something with Adult Swim we're at the end of each episode, on Adult Swim they actually do like a 45 second minute-and-a-half someone, that was instrumental in that particular episode talks about the episode so it's always the main creator, and then it's one of the writers or one of the animators or somebody else and they do like this really short and they have been so good because Rick and Morty always does the ending credit scene, but then this little extra snippet of.   [24:24] I can't believe we did this, why did we do that Dan came to us and said this is where the episode is going to end and we all went, huh how we going to get there and he went and walked out of the room so we wrote it you know so it's just it's just kind of you know it's been fun seeing some of those because you get that little bit of a not like the DS9 the other day where the extra credits came up, well me and Pastor Bill were watching it and it was like, to our behind-the-scenes we're like no it is 11:45 at night we are not watching a two hours for.   Pastor Bill: [25:10] Yeah I was like is this was this was 10 minutes cool I'm not sitting here for two hours and listen to them talk about DS9 season one.   Pastor Newms: [25:22] And I think it's an interesting thought looking at the past to now I thought that was a good analogy, of where we've come from you know DVD box sets with you know hundreds of credit hours and a thousand extra this and people are like no, I need 45 seconds at the end of every episode like and so it's interesting to see how the world has changed.   Pastor Bill: [25:50] That stuff out.   Pastor Newms: [25:52] No one wants to sit for two hours and hear you talk about it well I won't say that nobody does but.   Pastor Bill: [25:58] The only making of you know Insight whatever thing that I feel is at all the way through the whole thing is the one that came with the. Knight's Tale with Heath Ledger.   Pastor Newms: [26:17] Okay why.   Pastor Bill: [26:18] Yeah because that movie is awesome.   Pastor Newms: [26:21] I agree okay.   Pastor Bill: [26:28] Yeah it is why I don't watch any other ones anymore, anyway so now it's time for Pastor Newms favorite segments and since we're on an odd-numbered episode we pull a card from my deck and instead of the new deck that.   Pastor Newms: [26:47] Or just because.   Pastor Bill: [26:48] Lovely ladies that the holding household got for us.   Pastor Newms: [26:50] Or just because last week we did want to find you know whichever way you want to look at it all right Pod Decks let's go it's better be valid is better be valid.   Pastor Bill: [26:59] Yeah Pod Decks its products is awesome.   Pastor Newms: [27:13] No I'll be done at some point when we're dead continue.   Pastor Bill: [27:22] What are you most excited about right now and we already answered that question so we can move on, we're talking about your weekend my weekend things going okay what are we what are you most excited about right now bud. But I felt I felt Canadian for a second.   Pastor Newms: [27:45] I was that was gross I think the thing I'm most excited about is your computer coming in soon.   Pastor Bill: [27:53] They are actually building it right now yeah I got an email, this week that finally six business weeks after we ordered it who talks that way who says.   Pastor Newms: [28:04] Foreign companies.   Pastor Bill: [28:05] Business weeks anyway six business weeks after we ordered it I finally got the. Notification that they are collecting the pieces from throughout the warehouse and assembling my computer that we ordered that will go right down there on my left hand side. And stick out. Probably five six inches from where the desk ends here.   [28:46] Mr. Greg he joins us on Twitch he says I'm like I got distracted by buying and crafts.   Pastor Newms: [28:54] It just just break your wall why not.   Pastor Bill: [28:58] McCain was hang in there and.   Pastor Newms: [28:59] Hmm.   Pastor Bill: [29:02] Cinema release it all the way over here or I'm doing stuff and so I'm off to the far right no ma'am I'm you know, I'm over here ish more you know at my desk but for the purposes of this video recording I'm over here and then so that is a space for Pastor Newms to be over here on my left hand side, Chillin blow The Ekklesian House logo, which aluminum doing my hands just like kind of guessing where things are since I can't actually see the screen.   Pastor Newms: [29:35] I'm here in the logos up there see.   Pastor Bill: [29:40] There you go you are there and the logos about you.   Pastor Newms: [29:44] Not above you above me.   Pastor Bill: [29:46] No not about me what's above me is my free hugs shirt.   Pastor Newms: [29:49] No it's to the.   Pastor Bill: [29:52] This is leftish of me my left is not your luck just.   Pastor Newms: [29:56] I know that's why I went because it was just easy here, have fun - transcribing that it's over in the.   Pastor Bill: [30:05] Yeah mmm over the moon corner of your screen.   Pastor Newms: [30:10] I'm very excited about that because.   Pastor Bill: [30:15] Oh yeah we didn't really dance.   Pastor Newms: [30:16] We are going to start streaming more individually together playing games. And it's going to be fun because I have a ton of games that I've played for years or games that I've thoroughly enjoyed and you've watched part of and now we'll get to, go at it and we're going to be very careful with how we do this because. We there's a lot to get through there's ten years of games you haven't played to get through and it's going to be a minute so.   Pastor Bill: [31:01] But we're both storyline people so it's going to work out great because we're actually going to take the time on games that have storylines to get Destroyer lines instead of just blowing right past them, like you were talking about a narc, Zombies Storyline stuff and the people you've been playing with it's been all about let's build this as build this achieve this was achieve this was move on and there's so much story that, we can go back and just.   Pastor Newms: [31:28] Well and, and there were years of me being at Pizza Hut the main thing about that one is there were years that I missed and so like they've played a lot more than I have and so for them they can get to a certain point real quick and I'm like, I have stone and so it's yeah.   Pastor Bill: [31:52] HPuff says the chronicles of Pastor Bill.   [32:07] As some burping that was going on I was trying to keep it as quiet as possible.   Pastor Newms: [32:10] Don't do that don't do that it's rude.   Pastor Bill: [32:13] All right so this week oh I didn't talk about what I was excited about I'm excited about.   [32:29] I'm sure there's something.   [32:35] A new computers coming in.   Pastor Newms: [32:39] Haha stole that one try.   Pastor Bill: [32:41] 6:30 now, I've got some side project that I've that I has been rolling around in my head for a long time and I'm I've started working on that and I'm pretty excited about that I was I was, giving Gerg a run-through of, what the main outline of the story is and he was like dude you sound like somebody who saw a movie or discovered a new show and you really excited to tell me about it because you think I should watch it and I'm like what kind of am, and and as you know it's a story I'm working on but it's a science fiction thing and I'll be using a pseudonym and, instead of putting the name my name on it it'll be a pseudonym that I won't share here because I want to keep those separate.   Pastor Newms: [33:28] That would kind of defeat the purpose of having a.   Pastor Bill: [33:32] Of the purpose of having a pseudonym so I won't tell you anything about the story or what messaging is going to be because that would defeat the purpose. I'm pretty excited about that and hopefully that will.   [33:51] Yeah I don't make any money so I'm hoping that'll I can make some money because I've tried applying to jobs, lots and lots and lots of jobs and getting lots and lots and lots of ghost things and lots of rejections and. For interviews I've had over the last six years. Two of them were legitimate and I still didn't get the job and the rest of them were those, yeah we're calling ourselves a marketing company but we really just want you to go stand in a retail store and harass people to try to get them to buy our products.   Pastor Newms: [34:40] Which still doesn't help because you can't stand for any amount of time which is the.   Pastor Bill: [34:46] Exact I need a sitting job I need an office job I need something I can because I can't I can't when I go to the store I have to use one of those little cards I can't when I go to cook I have to use this you know chair in the kitchen, there's that and looking for a job is yeah each puff on Church says looking for work is horrible and Mr. Groggy says yes and and then there's this whole, thing that you see about jobs are posted, people apply to them and then they get rejected and then within the next week the same job gets reposted, because the government is subsidizing companies who are looking for work but if they feel that work then they won't get the subsidy anymore, and so there's this thing that companies are doing where they post a job and then reject all the applicants for not being qualified and then reposting the job with never actually intending to fill it because they're receiving major subsidies from the government, to be looking for filling positions so.   Pastor Newms: [36:05] That's no fun.   Pastor Bill: [36:06] That's no fun now I we went from excited to bummer and tonight's topic, we are yes Mr. Groggy said it we are it is called in the name we are talking about in the name and the verse that we brought that I used for the picture, for some reason I no longer have pulled up, is from a story that Pastor Newms really likes, and he can tell the story if he wants if not that's fine too it's from Acts chapter 19, and the verse is chat is verse 15 I'm going to pull it up in my CSB, I don't know something about the way the King James phrases this particular one I'm not happy with so it says the evil spirit answered them I know Jesus and I recognized Paul but who are you, and do you want to tell the story or should I just summarized from them text.   Pastor Newms: [37:16] I mean I do love this story so.   Pastor Bill: [37:19] I know you do that's why I offered to let you.   Pastor Newms: [37:22] There were these brothers and this is going to be the not the CSB version but the.   Pastor Bill: [37:28] This is gonna be the new Newmsian version.   Pastor Newms: [37:32] Version so there are these brothers and they decided that, you know they watched Paul and they watched other people casting out demons and doing Miracles and they were like man we can make some money so they were like let's do it so they go out and they start casting out some low-level demons from people and they start you know they create this business idea of hey we're going to cast out from demons and then.   [38:01] They were not using adequate, faith they were not using they were not Christians relying on Jesus they were just they had done this as a business proposition and, so they get to this particular house and they're like in the name of the, Jesus of Paul which to begin with and then they're like, you know get out and the demon in the person turns around and goes, I know Jesus, I know who that is and I even know Paul who are you and then proceeds to throw them through the door of the building they were at into the street because he was having none of it, well.   [39:03] Because I don't know if it was a male demon that was rude it just throws it right out the window and his like come again and it's such a, interesting thing to see because so often people always pull the, well I know so and so and like, you know it's one of those words like and and they did like the worst way of doing it too it's like my uncle knows a guy who runs this place and he said you know it wasn't even like a valid like you don't know the one who gives you power, you've claimed a guy that you knew cuz you heard of him who uses the power of the guy. To go do it and it's so it's a fun one because, I love seeing people get get what's coming to him and they got it right through the door so, yeah now Bill is how you the theological part about it.   Pastor Bill: [40:22] Yeah so II one of the one of the details that. Always gets me is that when they when they when they left they left beat up and naked and so it's like okay.   Pastor Newms: [40:43] How bad did you mess up.   Pastor Bill: [41:02] Okay so In the Bible gives us a name for who these people are right there called the Sons of Sceva which is interesting. I don't think that's actually their name I think that is a, I think that's an inside joke amongst the Believers of the followers of the way to call them Skiva, because this words Skiva has two meanings one of those meanings is mind reader, okay and if you think about the region where they're living in and everything that's going on in that region this this wouldn't be, a compliment or an Accolade to call someone a mind reader is basically you know you're a charlatan you're a hack you're a goof you know you're just trying to make money off of people, and the other definition is much more an insult wouldn't be an insult now but it is an insult then and the definition is left-handed.   Pastor Newms: [42:19] Which is the one that Strong's uses heavily is the there.   Pastor Bill: [42:21] Yes heavily and at the time that was a incredible insult to call someone left handed you got to think about. When you're greeting someone.   Pastor Newms: [42:37] I'll say it cuz you're nicer so you you shake hands with your right hand you eat with your right hand, toilet paper was in the didn't exist yet so God gave you a left hand so.   Pastor Bill: [42:55] So if you're left handed then you're yeah.   Pastor Newms: [43:00] Roxanne says poop shoveler.   Pastor Bill: [43:02] Poop shovel, they were poop shovelers in their handedness it just it's all kinds of evidence soul in the day nowadays someone can be left-handed that's not a big deal that's not an insult we have modern. Contrivances we have modern facilities where doesn't matter if your dominant hand his right hand or left hand but in the day to call someone ask Eva, that's an insult and so that's why I'm thinking that's not actually their name.   Pastor Newms: [43:38] Which they didn't call them Skeva even they went one step farther.   Pastor Bill: [43:42] Son of Skiva.   Pastor Newms: [43:46] You aren't even good enough to be called left-handed you are just the son of someone who was left like it's an extra level.   Pastor Bill: [43:57] Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.   Pastor Newms: [44:02] It's not even like I was having this discussion with Biggs and my mom the other day and Jesus did the same thing he got to a point, we're he was tired of just calling people Hypocrites and just started making stuff up.   Pastor Bill: [44:24] Whitewashed tomb.   Pastor Newms: [44:25] Like just so like it's almost like you know.   Pastor Bill: [44:29] You explain that was in me Jesus.   Pastor Newms: [44:31] It's getting written down and the guys like yeah, scratch that out rewrite it that one's better and they just keeps going like you know it's it's you know it's just humorous some of those aspects when you, look at them.   Pastor Bill: [44:53] For sure okay so what they did here is they went in and they said in the name, of the Jesus that Paul preaches or at least.   [45:09] That's how we translate that into our, Modern English okay now if we go back to the original and.   [45:24] We look at the words that are used there because over time we've collapsed a lot of Concepts together, and we've taken things that in the original context of a Greek sentence or the original context of a Hebrew sentence or the original context of a culture when you use a certain word it makes sense to mean a certain thing, even though it can have a dual meet right, and this is one of those words this word on Oma anoma which is 100% of the time, translated as the word as the word name, right it is translated as the word name except it doesn't just mean name, it means name it means called so nickname it means surname it means named as in you got your name changed and so now you are named, it also means Authority it also means character and so in this context when we read this, what they would have been saying is by the authority of the Jesus that Paul.   [46:49] Creatures right that is just the word name but by the authority now wait a second, Paul was out there, operating in that authority of that name he's not walking around going in the name of Jesus speak, now he is in the authority of someone who is a co-heir with Christ saying to be healed. Well Paul how do you have that ability well that's not me it's him that I'm in a relationship with and by that relationship I move in this, and so when we go back and reread certain places in scripture where it says in the name of right and so we for instance there is no other name by which man should be safe.   [47:49] What name is the translation there is name what name, the modern name Jesus the old English name Iosus the Greek Ieous, which means son of Zeus the Hebrew Yeshua the the the followers of the way began to call him, because they didn't want to call him the son of Zeus and I thought that was heretical and there's this whole divide or people were like no we have to call him that because if the Romans are walking by and they hear us calling you anything else, calling him by his real name you know calling him the Messiah then they're going to kill us so we got to use this name that they posted above him in ridicule, we had to call them that otherwise they're going to kill us and there's other people going but we don't have to call them that why don't we just call them a word that describes what he is, yes sure uh in English would be pronounced Joshua nobody calls him Joshua even though that's the way it was written several times in the scriptures. But even that's not his real name right the prophecy isn't Isaiah say they would name him Emmanuel.   [49:09] And then you get to to Luke and the angel tells Mary, to name him and then if you look in everybody will you've got the Jesus that it says is in all caps, and this is an author's note to let you know they mistranslated what was being said here out of respect for the holiness, all of the name being spoken by the angel they miss translated it into a commonly accepted nickname.   [49:46] That's not actually what the angel said.   Pastor Newms: [49:48] Yeah cuz in several in the Jewish culture a lot of, will not right Messianic Jews they won't write the full name there are a lot of people who want and then there.   Pastor Bill: [50:05] Bill never use a no because it's disrespectful.   Pastor Newms: [50:07] And then they don't they don't use they don't write all of Jehovah's name either when referring to got because it's disrespectful to write it wrong.   Pastor Bill: [50:19] Do you have to write it they will take the pain or the Krill or whatever they're using and after they've written the name of the Lord they will break it, and put it in the fire because that pin has now touched the name of God and nothing else should be written with that device and they go get a new one. Right.   Pastor Newms: [50:42] So I mean it's definitely it's definitely something that's been translated for so long as name but more it is the authority, and it's kind of like, I heard a preacher say it one time where it's like when you go in somewhere and you're like hey I need to get a loan and they're like well I don't know who you are well my father's this person okay cool here's alone you know because it's someone else's you're borrowing someone's Authority you're not borrowing their name because their name doesn't mean anything it's the.   Pastor Bill: [51:19] And you're certainly not coming with him as I've seen some preachers preaching from the pulpit in 2021, calling themselves God almighty, because they are co-heirs with Christ and equal to Christ and Christ is God and therefore they are God and all Christians are God almighty.   [51:49] All right so now we're going to turn to Matthew chapter 28 okay and.   Pastor Newms: [51:57] Short chapter.   Pastor Bill: [52:02] Chapter 28 it is kind of short chapters no.   Pastor Newms: [52:06] Usually I have to do more scrolling.   Pastor Bill: [52:11] Matthew chapter 28 we're going to start in verse 18 take my Bible off my little.   [52:21] Holder here it says Jesus came near and said to them all authority has been given to me in heaven and on Earth, go therefore and Make Disciples of all Nations, baptizing them in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you and remember I am with you always to the end of the age, now we've talked extensively about what kind of baptism Jesus was talking about here and we brought up what John talks about that John baptized with water, Jesus came to be baptized with the Holy Spirit not with water so therefore any time Jesus says go baptized he's talking about the Holy Spirit he's not talking about water, even Jesus himself never baptized anyone if you go and you look anytime, where that ism is happening around Jesus it always makes note that Jesus was off resting on the shore while the disciples were doing the baptizing, the water baptizing, and then Paul goes on to I didn't baptize anybody well maybe a couple of members of the household of Stephanas but I can't really remember if I did or not, you think if water baptism was that big of a deal Paul would remember whether or not he baptized two people in the household of Stephanas right.   [53:49] Set up but the topic of tonight is in the name, so he says that telling me the name of the father and the son of the Holy Spirit and so what do people do when they're for instance water baptized, I baptize you in the name of the Father the name of the son of the name of the Holy Spirit.   [54:09] Except that's not what it says it says it's the word Authority that has them in the authority, the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, so when you're leading someone into baptism whether its water baptism or batches the holy spirit because I'm not anti, water baptism I'm very much your relationship with God is your relationship with God if you study about water baptism and you feel like that's a good outward sign for you, to show that you've turned your heart over to the Lord then absolutely you should get water baptized, so I'm not anti water baptism I'm anti requiring it as part of Salvation because then that's not salvation anymore you've now created a law, and made salvation of no effort no effect Paul's words there, so when we go back to the original Greek even he uses the same word here again, in the name of the father it's that Oma it's in the authority of the father of.   [55:29] The Son and the Holy Spirit you move in that Authority, when you're when you're baptizing someone and this case baptizing them into the Holy Spirit baptizing them into the law of the spirit which is salvation right, and Jesus came and all authority has been given to me in heaven and in Earth, there in Matthew chapter 28 verse 18 right all authority has been given to me go therefore and make disciples baptizing them in the authority of so all authority has been given to him, and did he use the word, Authority in verse 18 well.   [56:24] The the word that was used in verse 18 verse 28 that then is translated as Authority in the CSB and Power in the King James, is technically both power and authority let's just read what strong mr. strong had to say about it he says in me a sense of ability, privilege that is suggested, subjectively Force capacity competency Freedom or objectively mastery, concretely magistrate superhuman potentate token of control is delegated influence Authority jurisdiction Liberty Power right string, now the word itself is X who Sia, exousia does that sound like a an English word that you know exude.   [57:42] Exude, when you exude something it comes naturally to you because it is part of Who You Are, he says all authority has been given to me so, I exude this Authority this power this Liberty this this this right it is my strength I have competency here I have the freedom to do it, and I am using that and telling you to go out and do the same. He is empowering them not giving them a script.   [58:32] Which so many have gone and just used it as a script instead of going out and going well I'm moving the authority out. So I've seen so many people that they talk about demons demons here demons there and we just have to resist the demons and in the name of Jesus of Nazareth, okay okay you little demons running around laughing at you know but I used the name of Jesus well, you definitely spoke some words to him you definitely did. You definitely spoke some words to Modern English words.   Pastor Newms: [59:16] And and the aspect is it's not that's what so many people get so incorrect In A lot of times is it's not, the words that have the power it's the authority behind the words so yes there are people, and by the way the reason I'm chuckling for those who can actually see my face is anytime Pastor Bill wants to get, to call out people that are have different beliefs, typically goes towards the southern, what I what I would call a Southern Baptist accent, for people that are the leaders of churches in these small Podunk town where he had to grow up in and it just makes me, giggle because it is painful to hear because I've heard it too many times.   Pastor Bill: [1:00:16] Got it from the video that I watched a couple of weeks ago who was talking about what was he saying um.   [1:00:28] He was talking about they put in that evil mermaid shot down the street where you can get the devil's coffee and they took away my some restaurant that he loves they tore down the restaurant that I used to eat at so they could put it in that mermaid worshipping devil coffee shop and it is this thick Southern bat like this was the whole his whole sermon was all about they tore down, the restaurant he select to go to and put in a Starbucks and how that was evil and they shouldn't begin coffee, from that mermaid worshipping devil coffee shop.   Pastor Newms: [1:01:06] And and so what I was saying which is sadly people have that belief there are so many people who they, they focus on the wrong part of this there are people who walk in that Authority and they use the name, as well and it's, accurate because they're walking in the authority, so we're not talking about that let's be clear we're not we're not saying anyone who's ever baptized someone like this as built, or anyone who's ever preached a message like we're not trying to go that route, what we're trying to say is the important part is the authority not just the name there was a there's a couple of, vampires dick movies and shows and and I like fantasy so it happens and every now and then you.   Pastor Bill: [1:02:14] Power of Christ compels you.   Pastor Newms: [1:02:16] Does it does it when you go after when you go after someone without that power.   Pastor Bill: [1:02:30] Up like a sun is either.   Pastor Newms: [1:02:31] And in Jesus talks about it another place as well that you know you have to have, The Authority the you have to have prayed this out you have to make sure you have that spiritual gifting from God you have to you shouldn't be out just claiming Authority because you think you can when you aren't actually walking in, just claiming the authority as a good way to get yourself in trouble you can pick up a cross and shove it in a vampire's face unless you have the faith behind it it's going to eat you, and and I watching the movie will enjoy it because hypocrite.   Pastor Bill: [1:03:20] Enjoy it greatly.   Pastor Newms: [1:03:21] Get bit, and so it's just an aspect of the authority is what is so important and that's what I want to make sure is clear because sometimes Billiam is. More passionate about certain aspects and less. Cut and dry and so I want to make sure that that is clear did I compare your emotional and my logic accurately there okay.   Pastor Bill: [1:03:53] I don't know I'm apparently the emotional in that sentence so that's a new one on me.   Pastor Newms: [1:04:01] Wait wait wait excuse me.   Pastor Bill: [1:04:03] I knew you were going to let you get away with that.   Pastor Newms: [1:04:04] You're going to actually try like you're going to actually try to go you comparing me and you can go ahead and end for tonight we good we can 30.   Pastor Bill: [1:04:16] We're at 7:30 Force we're a little over so in Matthew Chapter 7, verse 21 I want to leave you guys with just a parting thought, and it is Matthew chapter 7 starting in verse 21 it says not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven don't.   Pastor Newms: [1:04:44] Hey Bill okay try try again you cut out during the actual Reading part.   Pastor Bill: [1:04:54] I haven't started reading you can you hear me now okay, no I guess I have sorry reading, so let's pick back up in verse 22 because that's when it starts getting good on that day many will say to me Lord Lord didn't we prophesy in your name drive out demons in your name and do many miracles in your name, then I will announce to them I never knew you depart from me you lawbreakers this is that same word.   [1:05:29] On Omar, can be translated as name but it can also be translated as Authority in this context when you're reading and they say in your name, if you go back and you look at the original they're saying so sad.   [1:05:53] So sand Oma soap Sonoma soap Sonoma, in your Authority in your Authority in your there was no and even if it's the word name Authority whatever there is no, didn't I do these works because we relationship, we Authority we co are it's not of that's not what they're saying they're saying that at all they're saying in your, I tried to use your not our there was no relationship there, and so that's where you see this this bright here in these people that are talking about but I did go out and I did Ministry and I and I try to make the world a better place and it yeah, be gentle these things you had no salvation you had no relationship here this is this is not how this works, and so I just want to leave you know with that parting thought and you guys can go look that up and chew on that and see how that makes you feel so, that's what I have there you have anything else you want to add my wife on uh I'm sorry Roxanne on YouTube says wow bill is in some hardcore denial about that emotional stuff.   [1:07:21] Because everybody knows me knows I'm super emotional like about everything. I like when my when my friends have birthdays and they won't let me talk about it it really gets me like right here and it hurts.   Pastor Newms: [1:07:39] Remember I can press stop without you.   Pastor Bill: [1:07:41] I send them gifts anyway even though they told me not to and I'm like get over it, that's all I have to say about that and so now we'll do a 30 second buffer 30 second buffer 30 second buffer was that a little bunny rabbit no it wasn't 30.   Pastor Newms: [1:08:00] It was it was it was a bunny rabbit.   Pastor Bill: [1:08:03] 30 second buffer.   Pastor Newms: [1:08:04] 30 second buffer.   Pastor Bill: [1:08:07] We love you have a great week.   Pastor Newms: [1:08:09] Please be safe.   Pastor Bill: [1:08:11] And until next time.

Pastor Newms: [0:00] Intro video. Pastor Bill: [0:04] Yay. Pastor Newms: [0:06] Intro video. How was the level of the intro video did it need to come down at all? Was it good? Pastor Bill: [0:14] It was good no they were just right yeah.   Pastor Newms: alright good good.   Pastor Bill: That you could hear the you could hear that well I don't know I thought maybe the music was a little low, maybe could have turned the music up a little bit but the volume of the of the talking was. Pastor Newms: [0:32] Well yeah it's the same volume as normal.   Pastor Bill What was the number of this episode?   Pastor Newms: I don't remember I've lost track it. Pastor Bill: [0:58] I'll go look at the titles. Pastor Newms: [1:02] I turn this computer on when I texted you earlier so. Um, I ain't got nothing going nothing. I haven't created the folder for today nice why did you type that okay. Pastor Bill: [1:23] Mirand on Facebook beat me to it. It's in some of the season and episode number. Hey Biggs, Biggs on Twitch we're doing a thing we're we yeah we talked during the five minute countdown now so you should be able to hear us it was my chatter we're going to chat. Pastor Newms: [1:51] I'll give you some chatter cheddar sea. Pastor Bill: [1:57] Yeah HPuffPhoenix says. Pastor Newms: [2:02] Are we staying up super late tonight and watching things or are you going to be are you going to be watching. Pastor Bill: [2:10] It's Father's Day. Pastor Newms: [2:11] Or are you going to be watching things with your wife. Pastor Bill: [2:14] I'm probably going to be spending time with my wife since it's father's day. Pastor Newms: [2:25] But it's the first episode of season 5 aha. Haha yeah we all came home and crashed like hardcore. There's a come with your deep theological questions Bring It On. [2:51] Push down with the beds been calling she has already been in the bed that was calling her name she slept on the way down here mmm mmm. Pastor Bill: [3:03] Okay so like I was saying before we started the countdown this game terragenesis game. My temperature is still too hot I'm trying to get my temperature down to terraforming the Moon, and that's creating more water or but I still need to get my temperature down more but then I've got too much water just crazy and then, the game got complicated it was supposed to be a I can just leave it running while I go do other stuff but then all of the little plants that I created on the planet all died off every time I walked away, so I gotta pause the game when I walk away now or the whole planet dies. Pastor Newms: [3:47] Hello the best 13:17 appears to be one of my cousins. Pastor Bill: [3:55] The best 1317 like Macallan 1317. [4:03] McCallum it's the it's a scotch. [4:20] I collect useless details in my brain. Pastor Newms: [4:22] Forty seconds by the way. Pastor Bill: [4:25] 40 second buffer.   Pastor Newms: No, we're not doing that.   Pastor Bill: [4:54] Um maybe it's your cousin Matt do you have a cousin Matt? Pastor Newms: [5:00] Have to cousin mats oh yeah that's my cousin Matt Okay there I push the right button. Pastor Bill: [5:12] Hello and welcome to season 3 episode 33 of The Berean Manifesto. Tonight we are hanging out, we're answering questions we are getting into deep theological discussions Maybe. Pastor Newms: [5:28] About book. Pastor Bill: [5:30] If that happens that comes up it may not, um it's Father's Day Newms is a father I'm a father we're kind of taking it easy Newms had a family reunion this week and I, set up my lovely workspace with my new desk and my new shelves that my wife got me for my Father's Day present and I redid my rug so it's not all you know hanging loose. Pastor Newms: [5:53] And you hung the free hugs where everyone can actually see him that's the T-shirt he wears. Pastor Bill: [5:58] And I hug my. Pastor Newms: [5:59] When we do ministry. Pastor Bill: [6:00] Sure yeah this is a t-shirt we've been wearing we do ministry we're going to design a new one for the next the next Pride that we actually have, um because that's two prior as in a row that they canceled, and so yeah this is a shirt I cut up my shirt and mounted it on a canvas and hung it and then I don't know if you can see this. This is our determination letter from the IRS, that makes our church a church in the eyes of the government. Pastor Newms: [6:32] Yeah it was fun the family reunions was real good, it's enjoyable soft family some we like some we don't like families family who knows, it was very interesting some of the conversations I had oh excuse me, I don't know is the Dallas Pride canceled Biggs is asking. Pastor Bill: [6:57] Dallas pride is cancelled what they're doing instead is you're just having a concert, One concert where everyone will be social distancing and wearing masks and that's all they're doing. There's no vendors there's no you know any opportunity for any of that and then hopefully next year we'll be able to have a face to face Pride event where we can go out and spread the love of God and let people know that we love them. Pastor Newms: [7:38] Unless you come to Nashville in September. Pastor Bill: [7:43] Is Nashville having their Pride in September? Well I mean you didn't send me any information so we wouldn't have a booth but. Pastor Newms: [7:53] We could still go. Pastor Bill: [7:54] You could you can send me information and we can get a booth probably still. Pastor Newms: [7:59] I'm not sure how we would work a booth because we can't you have to bring everything and that be really complicated. Pastor Bill: [8:06] Well I'm sure you have an Academy there and we can just go get a 10 by 10 foot you know there's like a hundred bucks for one of those so. Pastor Newms: [8:17] H puff Phoenix will be sending you all the pride. Pastor Bill: [8:21] HPuffPhoenix is going to send me the. Pastor Newms: [8:23] Because whether you come or not I'm going so, it's really either way you really should probably send me some cards I'm gonna need some of those either way, I'm going. Pastor Bill: [8:45] It wouldn't be a bad idea I mean that's one of the things that's in you know my heart and it's in the heart of this ministry to reach out and it started with um the Holy Spirit really bring to my attention to the suicide numbers for that demographic and it really just kind of blossomed from there my earlier in life I was I was I was I was homophobic for sure. Pastor Newms: [9:23] Uh-huh. Pastor Bill: [9:25] Didn't want to be in Ministry to that community that that demographic didn't have anything to do with it. Pastor Newms: [9:32] Several demographics actually but that one also. Pastor Bill: [9:36] And then as time got has gone by the Lord's worked on my heart and and you know and I've gone through this transformation in knowing you know that the Lord wants me to be doing Ministry in this area and so that's what we've done. We've reached out and we've made ourselves available and gone to Pride twice in Dallas and done Ministry because I mean we walk what we talked and we preach love and so we love. Pastor Newms: [10:11] Some of us better than others. Pastor Bill: [10:15] Does it hurt you as much as it does me that people post videos about Christians being anti LGBT or sermons where they preach just stupid stuff about being anti LGBT and in the like the number one comment is a no hate like Christian love, does that bug you as much as it bugs me. Pastor Newms: [10:42] Um yes. Pastor Bill: [10:42] Because I'm like that's not that's not love and I and it hurts my heart that you've been hurt by Christians who claim to love it just hurts me so much. Pastor Newms: [10:54] And that's the big thing about it it's not necessarily just the fact of these people are so stupid it's the fact that the commenters have been so hurt we have sadly we've sadly. Pastor Bill: [11:07] That's what hurts me is that they have a right to say that. Pastor Newms: [11:16] I did not see real Christians forgive like Jesus billboard but that's a good one yeah like Heather said. Pastor Bill: [11:24] Phoenix see ya. Pastor Newms: [11:26] Like HPuffPheonix said. Pastor Bill: [11:29] She's had her own experiences in this area lately and so she can relate to that comment and that's what honestly irks me is that is a, completely Justified comment and I'm like I I I want to hug you and I want to let you know that, we're not all like that some of us actually love and aren't hung up on, our own deficiencies too much to see past our theology, to actually love you and to question my theology actually accurately biblical, or have I learned things out of context and need to put them back into Biblical context. Pastor Newms: [12:16] Yeah and that's a big one a big one is so many people and they don't look at the aspect of the Berean lifestyle you know as Paul teaches you know be like the Bereans because they actually, tested what they heard and took it back to the Bible and if it didn't line up with the Bible they say okay that's not right. Pastor Bill: [12:41] Let's be honest he didn't say Bible he said scriptures. Pastor Newms: [12:44] Well yes he said. Pastor Bill: [12:46] Where I want to I don't want to drop in some confusion and anyone that might be listening to this and go wait Paul said Bible also the word bible. Pastor Newms: [12:55] That'd be really weird. Pastor Bill: [12:57] It would be really weird. Pastor Newms: [12:58] Since it didn't exist yet yeah and it's an English word so be really really weird. Pastor Bill: [13:06] It would be really really weird yeah. Pastor Newms: [13:09] No actually we're what is the root of Bible. Pastor Bill: [13:13] It's a biblio of it's a Latin word. Pastor Newms: [13:18] So it's Latin okay. Pastor Bill: [13:20] It's a Latin word that did you literally just means book pretty much but in this case we would we would say the book. [13:33] You looking it up you googling it the etymology of the word bible always agree. Pastor Newms: [13:35] Yeah it's actually it is from it is from Greek meaning the books. Pastor Bill: [13:42] Books plural gotcha. Pastor Newms: [13:45] It had the literal meaning of scroll so. Pastor Bill: [14:01] Bigle did you mean Bible b.i.b.l.e. Pastor Newms: [14:06] Yes that's the book for me I Stand Alone. [14:16] First you're going to tear the pages because they're always leather and you're going to. Pastor Bill: [14:20] Yeah you shouldn't be standing on books that's not good for books. Pastor Newms: [14:23] Now there's something that I always have an issue with I love books, anyone who knows me very well knows I love books I have boxes of books in the house right now because I still haven't built all of the bookshelves necessary to hold everything in this house so. Um so I always struggle with that when people are like, I don't write in my Bible and I'm I always go and not because there's anything it's not like the Bible special you shouldn't write in it that's not the reason it's just like why did you write the book you know I have workbook. Pastor Bill: [15:24] So are sacrificing there. Pastor Newms: [15:27] II have workbooks. Pastor Bill: [15:29] Books. Pastor Newms: [15:30] Yeah I have I have work I have work books that have sheets, of paper in them because certain workbooks I was like this isn't feel like a workbook so I'm not writing in it I've gotten over. Pastor Bill: [15:46] Did you do with the Divine Easter devotional that I made that one year did you not right in that. [15:56] Really okay. Pastor Newms: [15:56] It's on a bookshelf now there are some books I have written in over the years some I don't really have a problem with and I don't really know why, but some just don't feel like they should be written in if the pages don't feel right I won't write in it. Pastor Bill: [16:21] Mmm I definitely write in my Bible I'll write any book I don't care but mainly my Bible I write when in when I read something and I feel like, I've received Holy Spirit and inspiration you know I'll write it in the margin, and then if I come back across that, and I'm like oh I felt like this before if I feel like well that was definitely my ego that was definitely pride those I'm gonna flush whatever I'll mark it out. My spirits still confirms that that's accurate then I'll leave it and that's you know that's one of the things that I do and I mean you can look at my this is a Bible I use most often you can't really you don't really see much because that doesn't happen all the time it happens you know infrequently but it does have. Pastor Newms: [17:18] Yeah I've got notebooks just tons of notebooks. Pastor Bill: [17:22] The one Bible I won't write in, is my copy of the Geneva Bible the 1599 Geneva Bible the version that the pilgrims brought with them on the Mayflower I'll highlight in this Bible, but I don't write in this Bible and I love this translation because it isn't, influenced by the King James and it's translation this was translated before the King James was and the King James translation was written was was, what kicked off The King James translation party as it were was that King James was upset that people were using this Bible, instead of something that he had signed off on, and so that that was the final straw and why he started having his own bible translated, and so I love this translation I don't read from it all the time but I do reference it if I find a discrepancy, between the King James and my CSB and then my going back to the Greek or the Hebrew doesn't Define it well enough for me. [18:47] I'll reference my Geneva to see, you know what am I talking about what am I looking at what was King James the King of King James was the King of England. Pastor Newms: [18:59] Which would the Church of England also makes him the head of the church correct. Pastor Bill: [19:05] Right which is a completely different issue he founded the Church of England before he, started his translation work, because he was upset at the Catholic church for overriding his, his laws and his authority and, and the church was like well we have the authority of God because we're the church and he was like but I have the authority of God because I'm the king and they were like Well church Trump's King and he was like okay, I'll just declare myself the Church of England and me the head of the church and so now I'm the church. Pastor Newms: [19:50] James became king of Scotland in. Pastor Bill: [20:00] You know what maybe was Henry that made the king of the Church of England Biggs said he thought that. Pastor Newms: [20:05] Yeah I think it's Henry that did the. [20:15] James was the King of Scotland from 1567 to 1625 and the King of England England from 1603 to 1625. Pastor Bill: [20:26] Hey I think you're right I think it was Henry I think my brain lumped it into James but that's not right it is Henry but brains are like that memory is like that sometime. Pastor Newms: [20:41] The Church of England was founded in 1534 definitely before. Pastor Bill: [20:46] So definitely not James. It was more than Biggs says because he could not divorce his wife and a lot of historians paint it that way but that was literally only about this much of it that wasn't the whole story. Pastor Newms: [21:03] Henry the 8th in 1534 and of course this says because of his annulment to, so then he. Then pulled it to the Church of England. Pastor Bill: [21:29] Henry took a lot of women's heads, one of his wives he beheaded her because she gave birth to a daughter instead of a son, I'm like, give her another chance bro. Pastor Newms: [21:50] King James started the project in 1604 and the first trip the first published was of course 1611. Pastor Bill: [22:00] And the Geneva Bible was published in 1599. Pastor Newms: [22:04] And it was just the new version would help consolidate political power is what historians believe. Pastor Bill: [22:12] Now granted, the Geneva Bible was not in the language that it is in right now and neither was the King James Bible but both the King James Bible and the Geneva Bible were written in old English and if you want to know what old English looks like because it's really hard to find a copy of the Bible in Old English, go look for a copy of the Canterbury Tales in Old English and that'll give you an idea of what English was like in the time of King James. Pastor Newms: [22:48] I've seen some you know in museums and stuff copies of it and they'll have it open and it's it's to me especially being dyslexic it's unreadable. Pastor Bill: [23:00] It is it is it is unreadable it really is. [23:12] It's pretty close like the word Jesus isn't pronounced Jesus it's EOsus and it's spelled Ioesus, um in English that's English, now we call it Old English because since then we've replaced all the English with the queen's English which is what, modern King James bibles are translated into and what The Geneva Bible is translated into is the queen's English and then from there we got English which does what, British people speak right now which is a slang version of the queen's English and we have American English which is. Pastor Newms: [24:03] It's a language we'll leave it at that. Pastor Bill: [24:04] Melting Pot language it's just a bunch of languages that we pulled everything together and borrowed from to make a whole different version of English. Pastor Newms: [24:14] It's a something is what it is. Pastor Bill: [24:16] But Phoenix says Canterbury Tales gives me British literature Nightmares From culinary, I agree Canterbury Tales in the original language will get anyone nightmares when you hear it spoken especially it is, terrifying Old English is it's terrifying to here, at least for me. Pastor Newms: [24:46] It doesn't it messes with your brain because it's close but not there so it feels like an alien trying to speak your language. Pastor Bill: [24:57] Well it almost feels like Roman and German and English just like imploaded into each other. Pastor Newms: [25:07] I mean that's basically what happened. Pastor Bill: [25:12] That's what happened but it actually sounds like it, when you're when you're speaking American English in your borrowing words from you know Latin and  Spanish and German you don't actively understand that but when you hear Old English, and you know and you know you know enough of these Roman and Germanic and languages and you can actually feel you know. It's this it's crazy it's this mishmash of insanity. Pastor Newms: [25:44] It's a little weird yeah I will. Pastor Bill: [25:48] All right so we may be, not having an official night but we're still going to know do Get To Know The Pastor's so come back we'll get everybody involved not just you and me we get everybody in the check ball two. Pastor Newms: [26:06] I can't go any farther from when I baby sat Liby the cages is still in my office so this is as far as I can escape. Pastor Bill: [26:17] You did. Pastor Newms: [26:18] I can only Escape I didn't think it through and then when I got there I went. Pastor Bill: [26:27] Okay you ready what's the worst job you've ever had. Pastor Newms: [26:36] Can I answer for you. Pastor Bill: [26:43] Um I've got to but yeah go ahead. Pastor Newms: [26:45] Walmart specifically in that little Podunk town that was terrible, where the store manager was completely insane and broke all the rules. Yeah thank you HPuffPhoenix that's a good point Libby is a dog I should clarify that. Pastor Bill: [27:14] We have a cage when we were babysitting. Pastor Newms: [27:18] Thank you H Puff Phoenix. Pastor Bill: [27:22] I didn't even think about it that yeah think about it. Pastor Newms: [27:28] I don't have any people that would be in cages running around I don't want to try to explain since we have young ones here what any of those terms might be I would love I would love for you to have to explain that later though if I used any other terms. Pastor Bill: [27:49] That would be interesting, okay so Biggs asks paid or unpaid job either just any job responsibilities that you have so let me you're right but let me before I say anything further about that, my experience with this employer WalMart was my personal and shouldn't be taken as any reflection of judgment or claims, against the largest employer in the world who can sue my butt off for ages. Pastor Newms: [28:31] No and because. Pastor Bill: [28:32] It should have no reflection on the corporation. Pastor Newms: [28:34] And what's crazy about that I will say is he still talking but we can't hear him sorry we'll give him a second to come back are you back now, you did you left right about here. Pastor Bill: [28:52] Let me make sure I'm not on the Wi-Fi, I'm not. Pastor Newms: [29:00] So for me Walmart wasn't my worst job I loved it was great, and so when you tried to get a job there you were like oh this is going to be good and I'm like that's why I said for a bad store manager because I worked for a store managers that was awesome. Pastor Bill: [29:22] By the time I was coming to the end of my term at Walmart it was so bad, that I literally would walk in the front door and become so nauseated the first thing I would do before I clocked in was go throw up. And then I would go clock in, it was that it was really, really bad, and it wasn't so much the customers the customers, I mean they were just normal customers they have needs yeah they're not the brightest sometimes because they'd be like hey help me find, but yeah like you said having a store manager that did everything wrong I mean he would literally come around the store with his little cart pushing his car man and give us a notes on things that needed to be done. [30:32] And you do the things on your notes and then he follow up after lunch and spend 10 minutes swearing at you. Because you did the thing that he told you to do on your note and now he's saying that's wrong you should never do that, we don't do that here and I'm like. I literally just did what's in your the note that you gave me this morning I can literally word for word what you wrote in your notes, so that was my Walmart experience and then number two for me was once again not reflective on the whole Corporation but McDonald's. [31:18] I worked at McDonald's for 3 days I worked flipping burgers for three days, and by that I mean. [31:30] I'm standing there and they want me to flip burgers that are on a surface that I could Bend like this to get to, and I'm bending down this freezer pull out meat to put on this thing and then push this button and it goes down which is supposed to fully cook them, or at least cook them most of the way and then you're supposed to transfer the heating trays but ours didn't quite work right, so after I push the button and it went down once then I had to flip them literally flip them and press the button again, cook them again and then put them in the trays and ever so often I would have to do it a third time, because you literally they were literally still pink, um like uh not even fully thawed yet pink and hard still after two times of using the, heated press and on the third day when my shift manager came over and wanted to have the conversation about, you know you're a great employee and in 6 months I want to get you into the management training program and you could make up to nine dollars an hour. [32:49] That was the last straw that was my okay my back hurts constantly I'm burned all over my arms from this this thing, you're talking about a future where I can look forward to maxing out at nine dollars an hour I'm done. Pastor Newms: [33:06] So I've been sitting here trying to think. I've had jobs that had bad situations but no bad jobs overall jobs that turned into bad, but I'd probably have to say it was working for the prison software that was probably the worst just. Pastor Bill: [33:46] It wasn't calling Baptist Churches to try to get them to send their kids to an Acquire The Fire. Pastor Newms: [33:54] No I don't think it was because the job wasn't bad the people were just really really rude to someone who believed the same thing they did mostly, so now I don't think that was the job but the, just the actual but that job was bad because of the it started off being a little bit of micromanagement and I was like okay I'm new cool and then after, what was it for years it never changed and so at a certain point it was like okay I'm done, and so I moved to Tennessee um so yeah. Pastor Bill: [34:42] Zadie says but that wasn't a job is she talking about you or she's talking about what I said about your ministry assignment. Pastor Newms: [34:49] What you said because it was yeah she's saying what you said because it was a. Pastor Bill: [34:56] No it was definitely a job. [35:05] All right so Biggs on Twitch says washing big electric cabinets with powerwash spraying acid, that sounds terrifying. Pastor Newms: [35:20] How old were you at that point Biggs? Like would that even be legal at this point the kind of acid wash they used back then because I know it was like the 1500 s. Pastor Bill: [35:34] The fifteen hundreds, Biggs was 18. Pastor Newms: [35:38] Yeah 18 so that was 1392 so I mean it yeah I can see that. Pastor Bill: [35:45] Biggs is not older than the United States of America come on man. Pastor Newms: [35:54] No but some of his family members might be. Pastor Bill: [35:58] Oh You would know you were just spending time with them. Pastor Newms: [36:03] And by the way just in case you're wondering the Matt that is joining us the best, he's in the good part and actually only lives about you know a little ways away from here so it's good cuz, we're going to start a oh he's being mean now. Pastor Bill: [36:32] He is being mean he calling you old. Pastor Newms: [36:34] Cuz that means that is true I was born when he was 20 supposedly but I don't know if vampires when they have children they age in the same way. Pastor Bill: [36:43] Twenty hundred Maybe. Pastor Newms: [36:44] Maybe. So and then HPuffPhoenix said the same thing you said but for a different reason she said McDonald's because of the customers because she wrote wrote, sheep was. Can I try that one again we'll just cut that out and post that we don't do, it'll do any post but post know we're live we're not playing this game. Pastor Bill: [37:30] This is a live man. Pastor Newms: [37:31] Oh yeah I forgot, she worked the drive-thru most of the time so she mm yeah. Pastor Bill: [37:46] Now on the opposite side what about good jobs like what's the best job. Is it really. Pastor Newms: [38:04] For me it is because and here's the reason why all of my jobs have ended really really weirdly, except for Walmart actually Walmart ended because I transitioned out to focus on school, but all of them, ended because I chose to because of the situations except for one and, and that one, is just real, bad situation from beginning to end but I enjoyed the work, so I that one I don't even think I could begin to answer I love the company I am currently working for because what they do is awesome, Heather sorry HPuffPhoenix said in her message where she currently works I can't it's names are hard for me. Pastor Bill: [39:09] Yeah so when I hear when I hear HPuff or read heads pathetic say that and hear you say that I'm like looking for a raise huh. Pastor Newms: [39:19] No my eval already. Pastor Bill: [39:20] Get now is the best job I've ever had. Pastor Newms: [39:23] No my evals already come through and sadly it was really it'll cause, the healthcare has gone through a rough time with covid let's just um when your main when your main basis is elective care surgeries and then, elective care surgeries I'll get cancelled for almost a year. Pastor Bill: [39:47] Yeah. Pastor Newms: [39:48] But no the reason I like to company I currently work for is because they offer a payment program, and our medical system is so messed up we all need payment programs to actually pay for any of our services because none of us can ever afford actual Healthcare. Pastor Bill: [40:08] Yeah. Pastor Newms: [40:09] And it's at zero percent interest the patient doesn't get charged anything extra, the hospital doesn't get charged anything extra and it doesn't go on their anyone's credit score and I haven't been someone who went through bankruptcy because of medical bills, because of that but in Heather loves it because I saw Phoenix loves it because she, she can see Ellen insurance companies all day she's great at her job and it's really funny because she's really sweet, to the to the patients they'll if they get through to her that she should go well I'll head definitely take care of you everything's going to be fine let me put you on a brief hold give me just one moment and then like with like the people at the clinics it's like oh yes we'll definitely let me put you on a brief let me step by step by step but we just need to answer a couple but about that but you know super sweet and then she gets on with these insurance companies that aren't paying for medicine that these people need because they're going through kidney failure you know and it's like, yes but the temperature butter this is dated and then all of a sudden it's like well. [41:31] What you don't understand is and like you don't I don't know what she says ninety-nine percent of the time, because it's that attitude it's real sweet it's real calm it's really everything's fine everything's great and then you just hear from the other just the uptick and you're like insurance company said, and Heather Phoenix is protecting her patients so. Pastor Bill: [42:00] That's funny all right so for me I got to again, um and I'm going to tell you what the name you know the companies are but I'm in a preface this with, it wasn't about the companies for me and it wasn't about what the companies did for me, it was being in positions that challenged me and that kept my focus varied, and gave me the ability to multitask, you know I've got this project and I've got this project and I'm trying to balance the time and make sure it's all working and I've got metrics that I can plug things into and make sure it all balances and so for me, adding all of that to do where I'm not bored and I've got multi things going on so. [43:03] Um being the marketing director there I had to do I had to be cash here add to B marketing director I had to be team lead shift lead all that at the same time, so basically doing all of the running of the restaurant not actually being responsible for running the restaurant that was that was the actual, franchisees job she did a great job her and her husband they ran it great but I was there to do anything that they needed to do while they weren't there I could step in, and do that and so that was really fulfilling for me I really like that despite, how that ended where I was like you know I either need more money and less hours or I'm gonna have to start looking for a different job. [43:58] And that really poisoned the relationship I had with the franchise owner, she didn't take that in the spirit that I was intended she took that as an insult or as a leveraging technique which it really wasn't I was just being honest you know this is what's going on, and I'm going to have to look for a new job and if I find something I'll give you two weeks-notice once I find something and so everything was just weren't real downhill from there, so despite that ending you know and the other job, you know for all the same reasons that I listed was when I went back to work for Teen Mania after I left Gateway, or with separate from Gateway or however you want to say that I went back to work for Teen Mania and while that was a brief. [44:57] Time because that ship was already sinking, um it really you know did all those things multiple fires and had to juggle and you know all that stuff so, that that was that was what it was this for me. [45:28] Where do we go from here. Pastor Newms: [45:31] Well so. How was your week we haven't even done this part yet. Pastor Bill: [45:44] Oh man well I got my desks in. And then realize well I had enough space for the desks I didn't make enough space for me in my chair, so then I had to get a little creative and the way that I put in the desks. Pastor Newms: [46:07] I thought we I thought you measured that first. Pastor Bill: [46:10] I didn't measure me I measured the space and I was like well this gives me space to walk in and out. But I didn't consider the size of my chair and the size of me sitting in the chair and doing this and all of that so. Had to be arranged a little bit but I got to desks so I have a little shit going on and those are working great, and then I got these lovely shelves this week this is my Father's Day present from my wife I went on Amazon and I was like, you know sent her a list I said I like this and I like this and she was like those are only shelves and I was like yeah but they're two different kind of shelves you get to pick which one, so I opened that yesterday and put those up so I could you know put all my stuff on it and you can't see oh so fine. [47:14] Bottom shelf is knickknacks and then the next shelf is a cup few knickknacks and the, religious books that I reference from time to time one of them is the complete collections of Smith Wigglesworth, which I really like The Geneva Bible and the other one I don't really agree with everything that she teaches but it's the complete collections, Maria Woodworth Ettor, I like to reference it sometimes just to get an opposing Viewpoint you know it's not that she's unbiblical in her beliefs it's just that theological we don't always agree, and that's okay that's not a problem for me you know all that does is challenge me too. [48:09] To find you know what I actually believe and why I believe it which is good and then my third shelf, I've got I love this this is a 50th Anniversary Edition TARDIS Doctor Who Tardis that my wife got me used to be a bauble that made noise but um, Finnick made sure that it would never do that anymore and then I've got a couple of Doctor Who books from the time the time lord Victorious series that I still need to read but reading has become an issue for me lately and then I've got A Princess of Mars which is the beginning of Edgar Rice Burroughs Barsoom series, and then I've got At The Earths Core which is the beginning of Edgar Rice Burroughs. [49:03] Pelucidar series and then I've got the ever life shattering Lungbarrow, which is the Doctor Who book that came out in the 80s that redefined the canon of Doctor Who and forever shaped, Doctor Who lore and everything has built upon that since then even the new twists that they've released in Doctor Who in these recent seasons have been inspired by this novel, last I checked there were only a few copies of that left and the cheapest you could get one for was a hundred and seven dollars. Pastor Newms: [50:10] Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo ba he searches. Pastor Bill: [50:13] Cheapest you can get it in paperback right now is 200 dollars. Pastor Newms: [50:18] Nice. Pastor Bill: [50:21] So that that up there on top of my shelf and when I asked for it was one of those shoot for the moon you know quests and then my mom found one for like 20 bucks, and got it for me and I was like I didn't expect that to ever okay awesome. That will shoot for the my prayer request I had no idea. Pastor Newms: [50:55] I think you even cried a little. [51:02] I mean not to front you but I'm pretty sure you did so. Pastor Bill: [51:11] Definitely been a grams my mama she she's something else so. I'll show you the book as it looks like this. All right so that's what happened this week with me a lot of, labor and then I had to go through my filing cabinet and get rid of everything that I had you know. I have hoarder tendencies, so I went through my filing cabinet and threw away a 13 gallon trash bag worth of stuff from my filing cabinet and it's just a three drawer cabinet it's literally sitting underneath this desk right here and is only like 14 inches wide but it was stuffed to the brim with things and, is not important. Pastor Newms: [52:23] You have to you have to purge every now and then it is very important I learned that at a certain point in life and I don't like it, at all not even a little and I'm really really really really really really bad at it but my loving wife Zadie is much, better at it than I am and. Pastor Bill: [53:05] And what would they audit, I don't I don't have enough money to spend enough money to make an audit last more than a few minutes I don't even know what they would be auditing I'd be like, here you go here's all my bank statements for the year yes it's only 24 pages that is all the bank statements for the whole year, here you go. Pastor Newms: [53:32] It is true. Pastor Bill: [53:38] You just throw it all away well everything's digital now I mean you throw away receipts are all digital. Stores are like would you like a receipt and I'm like yeah I'm pretty sure my bank statements just going to tell me what you charged me so. Unless I'm buying it from some place I said I think I might need to return this at some point. Then I don't need your piece of tree you can just say that. Pastor Newms: [54:11] I like the email option and then it goes to my email and then I don't look at it ever and forget to clean that email out. Pastor Bill: [54:21] It bugs me when I go to Sam's and all I buy is like what's the word, consumables all I buy is consumables so it's not something I'm going to bring back and you get to the cash register and they're like would you like a printed receipt, or would you like it printed and emailed so either way I'm gonna have to take a receipt. Pastor Newms: [54:46] Well would you like me to tell you why. Pastor Bill: [54:50] I would like to explain yeah so many of these explain to me why they scan the receipt and a couple of your items at the door. Pastor Newms: [54:57] Oh no that that that's just for are you walking out with something, verification that's what I'm talking about I'm talking about the actual reason for certain receipting and how the receipting is done so the government actually dictates how receipts have to look and in what ways you can share them and depending on what you can buy, depends on how the receipt has to look so like places that sell, gift cards and things like that their receipts have to have specific language on them depending on the state and federal government and so because of that it's, certain states require a printed receipt so some companies just print the receipt every time because it's cheaper than trying to figure out are you a consumer from that state it's not a requirement based on where you're at it's a requirement based on where you are a current resident and so because of that it's very interesting. Pastor Bill: [56:10] Biggs is like or now. Pastor Newms: [56:13] You can thank two states for that but I'm not going to name them because they're mean. [56:22] And you can thank money launderers. Pastor Bill: [56:26] Juneteenth is a Federal holiday now. Pastor Newms: [56:30] Oh really. Pastor Bill: [56:32] Yeah it's Friday they voted on Thursday they officially voted to make Juneteenth a Federal holiday and then this year it was observed on Friday, you know celebrated Saturday, and so all federal buildings were closed on Friday all businesses that observe federal holidays were supposed to be closed on Friday, um and I thought you know I never want to be the white savior guy that's not who I am I'm an ally I'm a friend I will back you up you call the play, and I'll be there you know you say black lives matter and we need representation I'm the guy that goes you tell me what my responsibility is to back you up there I'm not the guy going around going, you know you're not representing them correctly that's not me I'm the Ally I meant you know you tell me what I'm supposed to be doing to back you up I'm there and I thought this was a good thing I thought you know finally the federal government is represent you know is Right is recognizing Juneteenth and if you don't know what Juneteenth is, it is the day that. [57:52] The slave owners in Texas officially received word, two years after the freeing of the slaves, um that, slavery was now illegal in the United States of America and had to let their slaves free and I said had to because that's actually how it went down, they were not willingly setting them free in Texas there were other states that, willingly Texas that was not a thing Texas they had to be forced so Juneteenth is this, this Landmark beginning of this march to equality some people say it's you know two years earlier when it started, saying you need to set all your slaves free is it isn't really the actual start it's the point, all of that is actually enforced is the word starts so to me Juneteenth is the beginning of that march to equality, but I've seen a lot of videos on Tic-Tok where like I said I'm an ally you tell me where to go and I've seen a lot of videos where a lot of people in the. What am I supposed to say now is it black or African-American or. Pastor Newms: [59:17] Just say community in that community. Pastor Bill: [59:20] Okay that Community are. Pastor Newms: [59:24] I'm not I'm not sure until I don't want to say it wrong let me let me be clear on why it's really depends on preference of the person you're talking. Pastor Bill: [59:30] Due respect, to who it's do we respectful they feel like it's pandering I've seen a lot of videos where they feel like this is just pandering and I get that I see their point of view, and if that's what we you know if that's the overwhelming consensus like I said I'm an ally I'll back you up, but I saw it as a recognition of the beginning of the March toward equality and so I was happy for it, so if somebody wants to email me if you're hearing that saying this somebody wants to email me and tell me how to support it and how to follow through or if I should just ignore it because like with the black history month thing for years I felt like that was pandering, I felt like. Pastor Newms: [1:00:22] Well there are some people go. Pastor Bill: [1:00:26] I felt like we need holidays all year long that celebrate Breck black history not cram everything into one month and go well this is everything that but you know it needs to be spread out over all year long all year long, we need to give recognition to the Pioneers that, made this country what it is that aren't white we should be doing that all year long it shouldn't be one month and then you know I shared a video on Tic-Tok of an interview that Morgan Freeman where he said the exact same thing and I was like that's how I felt about this for years. Pastor Newms: [1:01:07] Yeah. Pastor Bill: [1:01:09] And I'm an ally I'm not the white savior I'm not the. Pastor Newms: [1:01:12] We're not trying to do that you know. Pastor Bill: [1:01:13] I'm not going out there and trying to fix the world's ills for everybody else, and so when he said that I was like hey I can share that because I agree with that and now you know someone in this community is actually saying it so it's, the 19th is Biggs asks because the 18th the date for Juneteenth the 19th is but when federal holidays fall on a Saturday they are observed on a Friday when they fall on a Sunday they are observed on a Monday. Pastor Newms: [1:01:48] When I first heard about Juneteenth it made me sick, the fact that we did you know that and I say we I don't mean we as white people I don't mean we as you know Texas that I'm no longer. Pastor Bill: [1:02:08] Proud Texan I was ashamed. Pastor Newms: [1:02:11] I say we as Americans we as humans continued to do that always just makes me sick. Pastor Bill: [1:02:21] It makes me sick that we had slaves as Americans at all like the whole Spirit of founding America was freedom and then we literally did the opposite we won't we should have done, when the when the Spanish ship showed up full of slaves, we should have bought them and made them Freemen all in one motion,we should have bought them and sent the Spaniards away and said go get us you know, go buy more people that have already been put into slavery bring them back we'll buy them from you and will make them citizens that's what we should have done. Pastor Newms: [1:03:09] I will actually take it a step further because you're a nicer person than I am I wouldn't do it that way I would buy them all get them off the boat and then magically that boat would disappear. Pastor Bill: [1:03:21] But that doesn't help with everyone in Spain that's already in slavery. Pastor Newms: [1:03:27] I know the prop yeah and yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of gray area in in that whole situation. Pastor Bill: [1:03:38] The Spaniards were going to Africa, the African tribes were stealing people from other tribes and then selling them to the Spaniards, then the Spaniards were going back to Spain and putting them into the slave trade and then the people that were Commerce minded, we're buying up a bunch of slaves and then bringing them over to the colonies you know and selling them to the Americans. Pastor Newms: [1:04:10] It's just it's messed up how the whole situation human beings are terrible we live in a fallen world and human beings do terrible things other human beings every day and it's absolutely disgusting. Pastor Bill: [1:04:25] It is. Pastor Newms: [1:04:29] And I say that not as someone who's like (disingenuous) it's disgusting I can't believe anyone would ever do that because there was a time in my life where I did some pretty terrible things and so it's one of those things where it's like I feel, terrible for the terrible things I've done I was a bully at one point I was bullied I was you know I've been through lots of the different parts of the cycle, all terrible because we are terrible to each other for some, crazy reason that I've never fully understood. Pastor Bill: [1:05:05] And every year when we celebrate July 4th, and inevitably there's someone from that community that has issue with celebrating Freedom when as that freedom happened there were slaves. In this country that weren't set free at the same time I feel like that's valid and also not valid. Like yeah not everybody was free that's a problem and it was six, and it shouldn't have been taken time to fix it, it should have been fixed right away but I want us all out to celebrate that now we're free. Now but that's my personal feeling. Pastor Newms: [1:06:10] Well I mean we could definitely get into the wage slavery conversation but we will today because we're already. Pastor Bill: [1:06:19] Okay but that's not that's not. Pastor Newms: [1:06:20] I said we're not. Pastor Bill: [1:06:24] Whole class of people and injuring a whole other class of people a race of people rather. Pastor Newms: [1:06:32] Race I will agree with classes exactly what's going on. Pastor Bill: [1:06:36] Because exactly that's not a whole race of people and injuring a whole another race of people there are still problems. Pastor Newms: [1:06:41] Yes it is classism yes there are still problems. Pastor Bill: [1:06:46] I'm not going to argue against that there are still problems. [1:06:58] I'm an ally not a savior so alright so we're out of time for this episode for this night, so unless you have anything else you want to add or in clay in unless anyone else has anything they want to contribute on chat we'll go ahead and wrap this up, I cut my hand at some point this week just ever so slightly and I keep doing things that just like barely touch it and it makes it hurt. Yeah I don't know how I cut it. All right so now we're going to do the 30 second buffer because some of our streaming services require it before we hit the button otherwise it'll cut off what we're saying now so, I'll sing a little song, 30 second buffer 30 second buffer 30 second buffer has it been 30 seconds yet of course not that's not how time works 30 second buffer 30 second buffer 30 second buffer, that's enough singing now we love you guys have a great week you say your thing now Newms. Pastor Newms: [1:08:14] You guys be safe please love you guys. Pastor Bill: [1:08:17] And until next time.

Totally Gnarly Episode! Featuring an interview with the INSANE Richard Haskins of The Wee-Beasties up at Rubber Gloves in Denton, also Podunk Parliament swung by the studio to talk about his new album and gave us a live performance. Chief reports on the latest breaking news from the LON and it gets wild! Includes the Voice Acting talents of Damon Henderson (Razor Eagleton, Chet Prescott), Kevin Khoury (Gale Windfall) and Eric Daniels (Contra Thronehand). Thank you so much for your support and be sure to share it will all your homies! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/localobscene/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/localobscene/support

We bring back some new Would You Rathers and dive deep into two new segments.

Sean Dustin is the writer, producer, and host of the podcast "No Where To Go But Up".In part 1 of this 2-part interview, Sean shares his wild story that begins with getting expelled from elementary school and ends with going to prison.  Show Notes Follow Sean on Instagram No Where To Go But Up Podcast Theme music by: Ruel Morales Audio Transcript Brian Schoenborn: [00:00:00] Hello. Hello everybody. A guest today. He had a time where he hit rock bottom like many of us, and he has turned that around and become a huge success story. We're gonna learn about all of that and more, uh, is coming up. We've got the host, creator and writer of the “No Where To Go But Up” podcasts with Sean Dustin. Give it up for my friend Sean Dustin. So what's up man? How you doing? Sean Dustin: [00:00:24] I'm doing well. You gave me a lot of credit. Uh, a little bit too much, cause, uh, I definitely don't write a whole lot of anything Brian Schoenborn: [00:00:32] in writing is, it's proverbial, right? I mean, you know, I'd be, the way I see, I'm writing a book right now about my own story, right? But I actually record it. I'm actually making a podcast version of it first. So it's more of a docudrama narrative kind of thing. And then I take that audio and I transcribe that, and then I turn that into book form. So I've actually got a book agent, Sean Dustin: [00:00:52] uh, Brian Schoenborn: [00:00:53] waiting for me as she's collecting the chapters and we're working on, you know, negotiating, uh, Sean Dustin: [00:00:59] you Brian Schoenborn: [00:00:59] know, distributor deals, publisher deals. Sean Dustin: [00:01:01] Um, but I'm doing that basically by telling my story. Brian Schoenborn: [00:01:04] So, I mean, I guess I'm a writer too, Sean Dustin: [00:01:05] technically, but Brian Schoenborn: [00:01:06] how much fucking writing am I actually doing? You know, it's all coming out of my mouth. Sean Dustin: [00:01:11] I don't know. Shoot, shoot, shoot me your agent's contact because that's the key. That's the kind of book I need to write. And I got about three of them within my, within my story itself. Right. Um, there's offshoots to all the different, like smaller subs. Set of stories that came from that crazy ass life. Nice. Brian Schoenborn: [00:01:32] So, um, Sean Dustin: [00:01:33] so Brian Schoenborn: [00:01:33] really quick, I mean, you know, we're, we're recording live in quarantine as, as the rest of the world. I'm in LA. Where, where are you Sean? Sean Dustin: [00:01:42] I'm in California, Northern California. In the Bay area. Oh, okay. Right on. Brian Schoenborn: [00:01:46] Yeah. So we've got buried LA. We're just making it work, guys. Fuck it. We're gonna live. Um, anyways, uh, so maybe you could tell, tell the listeners a little bit about your story. Sean Dustin: [00:01:58] Um, Brian Schoenborn: [00:01:59] I want to hear about, I've been dying to hear about it. I'll share mine with you as well once we're, once we get through, here's a little bit. Sean Dustin: [00:02:04] All right. Yeah, I was trying to, I've been trying to refine my story down cause you know how it goes when you're trying to tell it you and you haven't written a written it down like as in like pieces and you just, it sort of goes everywhere. You know what I mean? You jumped from here to here to here and you're like, Oh damn, I forgot I was the best part. Um, yeah. So basically, man, I, I grew up a middle class neighborhood. I look like I'm Hispanic, but I sound like I'm white. So I grew up kind of different than everybody else. You know, there was a black family in my, in my neighborhood, and there was also a, uh, Filipino family next door. And then my best friend was Portuguese, but I was probably the darkest, uh, aside from, from the, the black dude that was down the street. Right. And so I got teased all the time, man. Uh, and I was smaller and so I got picked on and bullied and all of that stuff. My parents ended up splitting when I was around five years old, my mom ended up having to put me into daycare and the only place that she could find was like one town over, cause she worked in San Francisco. Uh, and so she had to commute every day. So I was there for a little while. Uh, I ended up getting expelled from preschool. Brian Schoenborn: [00:03:19] How does that happen? Sean Dustin: [00:03:23] That was a bad ass kid, man. I just, yeah, so you want to know the story about how you got kicked out of preschool? So, I mean, I was. You know, always it just into shit. Right. And, uh, you know, whether it was playing house or doctor, you know, with the, with the little girls running around and just, just always getting into shit. Right. I guess somehow the elementary school that I went to was right behind the daycare, maybe about a quarter mile. So I mean you can literally, you could see the school from the field, right? So you just walked through the field and go there and well kids will go back and forth from school cause there was neighborhoods over here. There's neighborhoods over there. And so I don't even know what the hell got into me. I don't know why he did it, but there was. Uh, to a little girl, a little boy walking by and for, and I just happened to, there was some dirt clods on the ground, right. And I just picked one up and I started throwing it at him, and I didn't realize that there was a rocking in inside one of the dirt, the piece of dirt around it. Right? So it ended up hitting the girl right in her face, uh, right in your nose. Right. And if it was, if it had been dirt, it would have been. It probably would have scratched her and burps it open, but instead it was a rock and it really fucked her up pretty good. So I got in trouble for that and got expelled from there. So I ended up having to go to the school that was down the street from my house. Right. And that was within walking distance, maybe two miles. And I was, that was the third grade. Right. So for the third grade on, I was a latchkey kid. And that's a horrible idea. Whoever came up with the idea of, of having a latchkey kid, that's a horrible idea. Um, because kids need supervision. They need discipline, they need structure. They need all of the things that being a latchkey kid does not have. The components are not there. Um. And so I basically had the run of the house to myself. You know, when I go to home, my mom was always working in the city, so I knew exactly when she would be home. If it was tax season, she would, she worked for a tax firm. Uh, she would be drawn sometimes until nine, 10 o'clock at night. So I have to, you know, make my dinner or fend for myself and do all that stuff. So what ended up happening is, you know, when you're a kid by yourself, when you're in a house by yourself, w w, w what is it? What is any third year a third grader? Do you Brian Schoenborn: [00:05:53] get into trouble, man? Sean Dustin: [00:05:54] Oh, you're rooting through everybody's shit cause nobody's there, right? So I'm going through my mom's stuff looking through every single drawer, trying to find this, trying to find that. Found some marijuana in a bunk. And, uh, for some reason, I don't even know. I, I didn't know what it was, but I knew what to do with it. That's crazy. Yeah. So, and I, I think it was, cause I seen the charred black, you know what I mean? Like something, it didn't burn in the bowl. And so I was just like, Oh well I stuffed it in there and I. I took a puff and cough my lungs out, got my bearings, and felt really good. You know, I felt like, wow. All right. I jumped on my grid. Yeah. I jumped on my skateboard, right. Because we lived on a Hill, like a pretty steep Hill. And I've never would like, I would always get going and then I would be too scared and jump off. Right. Cause I didn't want to get speed wobbles and fall and I jumped on that mother, that damn thing and went straight down the Hill. No speed wobbles doing like 25 miles an hour. Wow. Yeah, it was, from that point on, I was like, Holy shit, this is like, this is like. Superman stuff. Brian Schoenborn: [00:07:11] Nice. I, I won't tell you why when I was, when I was that age, man, like, you know, my parents didn't have that stuff unfortunately because I probably would have bumped into it as well at that time. Uh, but what I did find was my older sister had a huge collection of Barbie dolls. Right. And I, and one time, you know, my parents would take us to a baseball game every summer. We'd go to, you know, grew up in Michigan, so we'd go to the tigers games, and one year I got this like miniature baseball bat, right? It was like a souvenir or something. And so I got the idea. Pulling off the Barbie heads from all of her Barbies, and we started using that as a baseball. Sean Dustin: [00:07:49] So we pitched to each other and we'd Brian Schoenborn: [00:07:51] have some, Sean Dustin: [00:07:55] we'd run around, we could do it inside the living room, we Brian Schoenborn: [00:07:57] could do it outside either way, it didn't matter. We were just like beating the Sean Dustin: [00:08:00] shit out of those things. Probably a couple of weeks went by and his sister finally discovered what was happening, and she was just like, Brian Schoenborn: [00:08:07] she wants me to, Sean Dustin: [00:08:09] but I couldn't. Brian Schoenborn: [00:08:10] I think, you know, talking about weed, like the first time I smoked weed was in like, I want to say the last, it was the last day of school of seventh grade. Sean Dustin: [00:08:19] And Brian Schoenborn: [00:08:19] so you'd beat me by a couple of years. Um, but I'm not, speaking of Superman stuff. I remember, uh, uh, you know, me and my best friend, uh, we went over to this guy who was a little bit older than us and his group of friends, and they're all smoking weed, and they're like, Hey, you want to hit this? I'm like, sure. And, uh, you don't smoke it or whatever. And. And there was this guy that was a little bit older than me. He was, he was a badass, right? He was into like four wheelers and dirt bikes and all that shit. I had a lot of respect for him, you know, and we're all stoned and he looks at me, he goes, Hey Brian, you want to slap box? Sean Dustin: [00:08:51] And I'm like, Brian Schoenborn: [00:08:53] I'm like, all right. Sean Dustin: [00:08:54] And so, Brian Schoenborn: [00:08:55] so we're in this dude's bedroom, but beauty, heaven slap box, you know, I've just figured, but just like fucking around whatever is, I'm just going to lightly hit and I'm lightly hitting him. You know? He's lightly hitting me back and then he gives me good in the face and I like lean back. I Sean Dustin: [00:09:07] wound up and I just. Oh, pay maker do Brian Schoenborn: [00:09:12] goes flying over over our other friend's bed. They're Sean Dustin: [00:09:15] like into this fan. Brian Schoenborn: [00:09:18] I was like, Holy shit. Sean Dustin: [00:09:20] I just did that and he Brian Schoenborn: [00:09:21] got up and he's just like, dude, you just kicked my Sean Dustin: [00:09:24] ass. That is funny. At that point I was like, yeah, that's some super mad Brian Schoenborn: [00:09:28] shit right there. Sean Dustin: [00:09:35] Yeah. The days that we're kids, man, those are great. Um, yeah. Fuck. I was going to say something. I mean, I have to say, Oh look, you're talking about the cool guy with the, with the dirt bikes. I'll see. What I started thinking is Kelly Lee from the, from the bad news bears. Yeah, I kind of like that. Brian Schoenborn: [00:09:53] He's like two or three years old, you know, he had a goatee, you know, he was like ninth grade or something. He had to go to you. Sean Dustin: [00:09:59] That's big. Like fire red. It was Brian Schoenborn: [00:10:03] bad ass dude. You know where the Fox Sean Dustin: [00:10:04] shit and all that stuff. Right? Yeah. Just to kind of wrap it up, cause I mean this thing, this thing could take forever if I try to go through it, go through the whole thing. Right. So. You know, I ended up, uh, doing that, right. I went to a, uh, I was in junior high also. It was fast forward to junior high. I'm seeing my dad every now and then, you know, he does the every other weekend deal, but not nearly long enough, uh, time around for, for a young boy. Uh, to have influenced by, by having a man in the, in the, in the picture, you know what I mean? Like full time, like, like, like, like how I am with my kid, you know? So what ended up happening is I was just, you know, doing whatever I wanted. I was cutting school, like taking my, my buddy had a. Uh, and this is my first crack at fraud as well. It was my buddy had a, these, uh, he'd stolen these things from the dentist's office. Right. And there were, there were like passes or slips that, that you'd fill out to take to school with you to give you an excused absence. Right. Awesome. Yeah. And so I, that was doing that, I was just forging those forging nos, and we would stay home all day long and just like hang out at his house and drink his dad's vodka, all his, all his booze and get drunk. And so, you know, it was doing that, uh, just really not, I was getting suspended and, and, uh, put on, sent to the office constantly. You know, I was a class clown, you know, they literally had my, my. When I was in third and fourth grade, my teachers would, would, uh, wrap my, my desk in corrugated paper wall around me. Right? So I can't communicate with anybody cause I'm always cracking jokes or you just, just a clown, you know what I mean? Talking shit, whatever. I ended up buying, I bought a butterfly knife from somebody right in schools and Hey, you went by butterfly. And I'd be like, yeah, that's fucking cool. I'll buy that. Right. And so, yeah. And so I was playing around with it. In school. And like right before, cause we, you know, junior high, you're now going from class to class, switching periods, right? I'm sitting in there in my history class and I would sit in the back. I always sit in the back and I'm sitting there and the teacher, the teacher's not, not in the classroom. Right? I'm trying to be cool in front of all these, all my classmates and I'm playing and I hear them coming to me. Oh shit. I put it in my pocket. Right? And uh. He comes into the, he comes in that he didn't see that, uh, I missed my pocket and like, literally I moved around and it fucking went to tank tank. Okay. So I got expelled from there twice. Okay. That's two times already. I've been expelled from a school. I got expelled from there. I went and moved down to my uncle's in, uh, South San Francisco, San Bruno area. And then I went to junior high there. Like I went to school there, got kicked out of that place. Um, got shuttled up to my dad's in Sacramento. Uh, he wasn't prepared to deal with the likes of me and that's for sure. And he's 65, like 200 something pounds. I mean, we. We, I was rebelling, uh, you know, and he was just, he wasn't, he wasn't having it, man. So I ended up, uh, flunking out of, uh, seventh grade up there, and then had to go to summer school. And then finally, he's just like, he's like my mom. He's like, take him. I can't deal with his ass. So I mean, you know, there's just like. Well, what am I going to think? You know, what am I supposed to think? Like, damn, nobody wants me, you know, I'm just, just fuck up. You know, I can't seem to do anything. Right. And, um, so when I went back to high school or went back to the school that they kicked me out, the first one or the second one, uh, for the, the knife, and they agreed to let me come back. Right. They're like, all right, well, you know, you're in a bind and you need to finish the school year and we'll, we'll go ahead and let you back in. Um. So about three weeks, three weeks before the, uh, the end of the school year, and I was eighth grade right now. And so my next step is high school, uh, three weeks, uh, before the end of school, I got sent to the office and I, and after coming back, I mean, I was still getting sent to the office all the time and they finally just said, you know what? Go home. Just go home. I'm like, let me go home. He's like, Oh, we're going to socially promote you to the ninth grade. You've got straight F's. Uh, you know what I mean? What? You're just, you're a pro problem. Go home. Don't come back. And so that's how I get suspended. And he was like. No, you're getting it early. You're getting an early summer vacation. Get out of the huts. Brian Schoenborn: [00:14:58] That's crazy. Wait, so you flunked every class. They promoted you anyways, and you didn't have to go for the last three weeks. Sean Dustin: [00:15:08] I want to know who won that one. Oh man. That's how bad I was. And it's like, and I'm like, okay. Cause then it's like now I get to stay home all day and nobody's there cause my mom's in, right. So one of the worst things that I did now in this time period, right when I came back and when I was a junior or a. A freshmen in high school. And mind you, I hung out with all of the older kids, right? Because when I was a freshman, I hung out with the seniors and the juniors just because people that were in my neighborhood, they all knew me. Right. And, um, and they were seniors and juniors and, uh, and I think one, my best friend was one grade ahead of me. Um, so when I, the summer, I think the summer. Yeah. Right. When I was, I think like the first, first year of when I was a freshman, like the first couple of months. Somehow I got it into my head. And so I learned how to steal my mom's truck. Right. Enjoy ride it while she was sleeping because she would go out and she was, she was single and she would go out and she'd come home and like I would know she's been drinking because I could hear her snoring right from below. Right? So I'll like, Oh yeah, I'm like, mom's drunk. She's out. She's out. And so I would literally. I remember, I remember going up to her room right the first time I ever, I ever did this. And before I found that there was a spare key and I knew where to get the spare key. So I would commando on my stomach through her, like where her bed was on the ground, right. And I put my hand up and try to get her keys if they were in her, uh, her purse. And, or if they were out and I would go in and I would open the garage door. And this wasn't a, this was like the old Raj door we got in her bedrooms right next door. Right. So I'm like trying to, thinking that every noise that I'm making is like 10 times louder than it is. I jumped in the truck, right? It was the old, uh, 85, uh, Toyota pickup, uh, with the sr 22 engine that everybody wants. Open it up. I would put the keys in there. I would put it in neutral and I would go down. Remember I told you I live on a steep Hill, right? And so I would back out, like push it back out and coast it all the way down the street. Going backwards backwards to the next street, go up and then bam. Right? So I did this in the summertime for the first time, and I did it because I, there was this chick that wanted to hook up and I was a Virgin at the time. And so I'm like, I'm like, I'm going to get fucked. That's worth it. You know, risk versus reward. Right. So I go over there, right? And I pick her up. Uh, and, and, and uh, take her out to the back roads. I bring a plane, a blanket, and a pillow, you know, cause that's, I got class. Right, right. I'm a gentlemen, gentlemen, you know, I handle my business in the back roads and I take her to drop her off. And then I roll back up and install. In order to get back in there, I have to be going at least 50 or 60 miles an hour up the Hill so I could kill it and coast right back up into the driveway and into the end of the thing. Right. So the first time I did that, the second time I did that, cause she wanted to do it again. But this time she got a little bit bolder and said, Hey, why don't you just come to my house. No, you can sneak into my room. And I'm like, Oh, okay, cool. That's even easier. And so I did that. And the first, the, and this is, this is the last time I did it, and this is why I get there. I park. I get out, I start walking, walk into her house. So the side of the thing and a pit bull is fucking out there. And he chases me up and I jump onto the roof of the fucking car, right? And he's like, wow. And he finally, he goes away. Um, I ended up, I go in there, uh, I get into her room handling business and her dad fucking knocks on the door. Oh shit. Yeah. And I'm like, Oh my God. So I jumped out. I didn't have no clothes on. Right. I jumped out blood ass naked out of the window. I jumped out of the window. Yeah. Well, I jumped into the window to get there. So Brian Schoenborn: [00:19:31] I mean, I figured if you're naked, you would've been like hiding in the closet or under the bed or some shit out of the window naked. Sean Dustin: [00:19:40] I jumped out of the window into the backyard. Right. That's awesome. I couldn't leave my keys cause it's in my pants, right? So I'm like, Oh, Brian Schoenborn: [00:19:48] I'm going to go. Sean Dustin: [00:19:52] And so there's a shed right by the fence and there's about this much of a gap in between it. So I go and I shoved my ass in there and I fucking screwed into the middle. And I'm like. Sitting there, right? Just frozen. There's a motherfucking dog in my ass on the other side of the fucking fence sniffing parking. I'm like, Brian Schoenborn: [00:20:13] shut up. Shut up Sean Dustin: [00:20:16] dad. The dad comes out and, uh. And it starts looking, you know what I mean? You know, I, he, I know, he knows that his daughter, his daughter was getting fucking nailed, right. But for some reason he didn't. He didn't find me to know where I was. Right. So I got out of that one. Uh, she threw the bed clothes out the window and I hopped out after about a half hour, 45 minutes being just stuck there like. That's like 30 minutes of your life too. You're Brian Schoenborn: [00:20:45] right. Sean Dustin: [00:20:47] I'm only like 15 and I'm like, should I go? Should I, what do I do? So that's the last time I did that. Right. Well. My first, my first, uh, time with the law. Right. The interaction, you know, where I got caught up with the law was directly related to this girl that I screwed because I didn't know that she was, had a boyfriend at the time and he was a gang member. Oh shit. Yeah. You know, you guys have the Serranos down there, the Southsiders, we've got North siders up here, so. I didn't know that. I didn't even know that she had a boyfriend. Um, and so anyways, he called me up and he, uh, left a message on my answering machine. Uh, you know, with the tape, the tape player answering machine. For those of you millennials out there that don't understand, don't know what that is. I got, I took that tape down to school and I, like I said, I knew everybody. Like I hung out with the gang members. I hung out with, uh, with the blacks, the whites, the jocks, the drama geeks. I, I re, I hung out with everybody. I knew them all. So I let some of my friends listen to this tape and they're like, Oh, fuck that shit, man. Brian Schoenborn: [00:21:55] Fuck that shit. We're Sean Dustin: [00:21:56] going to get that dude. Let's go, let's go. And I'm like, yeah, fuck yeah, let's go. You know, I'm a little bitch, dude. I'm not a fighter, right. I went back then, I wasn't. And so I'm like, hell yeah. You know, we're going to go do this. And uh, by the time we got there, there was four carloads of dudes. Damn, four, four carloads of guys Brian Schoenborn: [00:22:16] on your side or on their side, Sean Dustin: [00:22:18] my side. Brian Schoenborn: [00:22:19] Oh damn. Sean Dustin: [00:22:21] And so we start walking down. Yeah. We walked down into the, uh, to where the area is, where everybody comes to the convenience store, lunch break and whatever from this high school on the next town over, and we start walking down there. I see them, her and him walking towards us. She bolts out of Brian Schoenborn: [00:22:39] here Sean Dustin: [00:22:42] and he still keeps walking. Man. I'm like. And so I was, I didn't know what I was going to do. I was like, I guess I'm just going to ask me, why did you call my house? I didn't have a plan. You know, these guys had a plan. I did. I did. It was just along for the ride guys. We called up the wrong dudes house brother, but I mean, I felt like a hot shot, you know what I mean? Because it's like, yeah, looking back, got my backup boy now. And uh, so anyways, he comes walking up and I just start to say something to him and before I could even get a word out of my mouth. He, he's reaching for his pocket for something and he just, somebody from the side just hits him. Uh. And then he ends up like boom, boom, gets a pin, pin bald, runs into them, runs into the store, and there's like three more dudes ready to, you know, grab him, bring him back, throw him on top of the counter where the cash register is, not the cash register off. Just literally. And drugs and drug his ass. He ends up getting a hold of the knife, right. And slide is one of my friends across the face. Damn. And I don't blame him, man. I a Brian Schoenborn: [00:24:00] fucking Sean Dustin: [00:24:00] slice. I just thought, I mean, Brian Schoenborn: [00:24:02] I'm just thinking like how much does it got to suck that you're cheated on by your girlfriend and then you get your ass kicked by a fucking gaggle of dudes. Talk about bottoms, man. Jesus Christ. Sean Dustin: [00:24:19] Yeah. So anyways, all of that's on video cause it's in a store. Yeah. I never touched the dude once. I never got to hit him. So anyways, long story short, I ended up getting charged with inciting a riot. Uh, and so I, uh, from that point on, um, my mom got, uh, you know, I was, uh. She couldn't control me, obviously. Um, you know, no, no. My dad's still in and out of the picture, sort of, but I mean, he's like, you know, after that old deal where me and him had a falling out was, it wasn't when, when I got kicked out of school and, and left from there at one point I went up there because I was trying to hook up with this chick and I knew my dad was on, uh, on vacation and I still had keys to his place. And I was, I wanted to hook up with this one broad. Uh, did I went to the junior high with go still in contact with her. So I, I, I drove up there or somehow I got up there. I don't know how I got up there. I think, I mean, I'd taken a bus up there like Greyhound and. Aye went to his house and I jumped over the fence and went in and his neighbor saw me going in and called him. Well, what I didn't know is that my grandmother at the time, uh, his mom was, had, was having issues and was in the hospital dying. Right. Brian Schoenborn: [00:25:43] Oh shit. Okay. Sean Dustin: [00:25:44] And so he had to come all the way up there, leave her come all the way up there and get me, and she died on our way back. That's great. So, yeah. So, uh, that, that, uh, that really put a monkey wrench in our relationship because, you know, I was the reason why you, you know, and couldn't be there for the last Brian Schoenborn: [00:26:07] moments. Sean Dustin: [00:26:07] Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, I mean, I get it, man, if that happened to me, you know, with my mom and him and his mom were pretty close, so. I mean, it makes sense. I, you know, yeah. And so, anyways, now that's on my mind, you know, that, that weighs on me now. So I've got these accumulation of things, you know, like, fucking nobody wants me. I'm a, I'm a fuck up. I can't do anything right. Everything I touch turns to shit. Look, when I, my dad fucking doesn't even like me anymore. So I've got this narrative that's getting built in my own head. Right. And, uh, so I ended up. Trying meth for the first time. Uh, and the reason why I did that, and I think that was like the summer of my, uh, freshman year. Right. So, and, uh. The reason why I wanted to try it so bad was is that all my friends were doing it and it wasn't meth at that time. It was crank back then. Bikers were still doing it. They still are, but they've changed. They've refined their process. Right. All of my friends were doing it and like when we would hang out, they would all disappear and go into their room and go into a room and lock it, and I wouldn't, that was the youngest. Obviously they didn't want to be responsible for. Turning the youngest dude onto it. And all of these other guys had already done it, and they knew I didn't do it. So, I mean, w thank you. That was cool. But it just made me want me to make me to want to do it more. And so I was hanging out with, my dad ended up marrying, uh, the neighbor down the street. He divorced my mom, and then the neighbor that lived down the street and another court, uh, I guess he met her in somewhere. And, uh. She had a sister, two sisters, and they were both stoners and like they were all, they were like meth, meth addicts. And so I think I had known that that was available there. And so I went down and started hanging out there because she was like my step grandmother. So she's letting me come down and hang out all the time cause I just really, really live right up the block. And that's where I got it. That's where I got it. Got it from her. I got it from my aunt. She was like, she was like 10 years older than you at the time. Brian Schoenborn: [00:28:08] Did she know that she was giving it to you or. Sean Dustin: [00:28:11] I don't know. I probably Brian Schoenborn: [00:28:13] like stealing it or we're like, I mean, Sean Dustin: [00:28:16] no, she gets, she, I, she smoked foil, smoked it on the foil right there. Right. And so I think, I think I probably, probably, if anything, I probably lied about it and said, Oh, you have done it before. Brian Schoenborn: [00:28:29] Well, yeah, because if you've done it before, then the pressure's off, right? You're like, all right, well, you know what you're getting into. Sean Dustin: [00:28:34] Yeah. Well, it's not my fault, right. He's going to get it from somewhere. Brian Schoenborn: [00:28:39] That's funny, man. That that kind of reminds me of not, not the segue a little bit, but, uh, you know, it kinda reminds me that there's a lot of parallels between our childhoods. I think, Sean Dustin: [00:28:48] um, like. Brian Schoenborn: [00:28:50] Somehow I was able to pull up good grades. I graduated top 10 in my class. I knew everybody, you know, but it was a small Podunk town in the middle of Michigan and 95% white people. Uh, one black family, one, uh, one Asian family that owned the, the, the son of the black family was the star running back and the Asian family owned the Chinese restaurant. Go figure. Sean Dustin: [00:29:11] Uh, Brian Schoenborn: [00:29:12] everyone else, everyone else was white except for like the last little 5% were basically Mexican. Are Latinos right? Everyone got along. And, you know, like I said, I was smart and I was popular, that kind of stuff. But I was also a fucking rebel dude. Like, you know, like I said, the first time I smoked pot was the last day of seventh grade. Sorry, mom and dad, if he didn't know. Oh, well. Um, you know, it was a long time ago, but, you know, I dabbled a little bit, a couple other things in high school. I didn't do math until I was in the military. Um, but that was after I'd already had PTSD and I was kind of fucked up. So I started, dabbled with it for a little bit. Um, but I was always more into other things. Like. Uh, I liked ecstasy, acid, stuff like that. But I mean, even when I was in high school, like I was in a punk band. I did some sports and some other shit too, but I was in a punk band. Um, and like headlining, like every weekend. Um, our bandwidth, and I can't tell you how many times I was like tripping while I'm on stage. Sean Dustin: [00:30:07] I'm like 16, 17 years old, right. Brian Schoenborn: [00:30:10] If I could Sean Dustin: [00:30:10] flip it the fuck out, Brian Schoenborn: [00:30:12] but like, still being able to play, Sean Dustin: [00:30:14] um. Brian Schoenborn: [00:30:15] You know, and, and, you know, fucking around sneaking into places like I used to, uh, speaking of sneaking out Sean Dustin: [00:30:21] like, God, I used to sneak out almost every night. Brian Schoenborn: [00:30:25] Like we had a pretty big house. It was a small town. It's a pretty big house. My parent's bedroom was all the way on the, on the East end of the house. And the door that we always used to go in and out was always on the West end. Right? So it'd be, I figured out how to like, open the door without, Sean Dustin: [00:30:39] without squeaking, Brian Schoenborn: [00:30:41] just real careful. And they'd always hang their keys, like, uh, in the kitchen. They're hanging up in the kitchen so I could grab them real Sean Dustin: [00:30:48] quick and Brian Schoenborn: [00:30:49] go out and I'd take off and, you know, whether it was going to like, get laid or like just hang out with my friends or whatever, you know, we'd, we'd like to smoke cigarette or have some beers, smoke some weed, whatever, that, you Sean Dustin: [00:30:58] know, whatever the fuck else. Um. Brian Schoenborn: [00:31:03] Yeah, I miss those days. It was fun. But like back then, it seems so dangerous. You're like, Oh, we're fucking rebels. We're doing crazy shit, whatever. Sean Dustin: [00:31:11] And now it's just like, you know, it's life. Brian Schoenborn: [00:31:15] It's life. You know? Sean Dustin: [00:31:16] That's funny. So part of it, so part that I, that I skipped, so this is, uh, I just kinda missed it so. In the ninth grade, towards the end of the ninth grade, I ended up, uh, so since I know how to drive this truck and I have this, uh, the spare key now, right. Or know where it is at least. So I'm like, you know, I just, I want to cut school and I want to go hang out and do this, uh, whatever. So I decided to take the bus. To the Bart station, right. And go to the Bart station that my mom parks her truck at two for her commute to go to the city. Right. And I steal it from there and I drive it back home. Right. And I'm rolling around school, you know, get them, get a group of people together with me. And this is probably about. Maybe nine. I mean, yeah, probably about, no, about 10, 11 o'clock. Right. And I already know my mom's not going to be home till around, or at least get to the Bart station until nine, nine 30, something like that. Cause it's tax season. And so I, you know, we're partying at the house, drinking a little bit and, uh, but not getting drunk, uh, just having some drinks and, you know, at my house and my friends, so my other friend stole his mom's car and it was, uh, it was a, uh, a Mustang. And it was way better than, than that little tan pickup, right? And so I'm like, Hey, I want to drive that back to the Bart station, and then you can drive the truck. You know what I mean? That's got a good deal for you, right? And he's like, yeah. He's like, I don't know how to drive a stick. And I'm like, Oh, man. I said, does anybody know how to drive a stick? And my buddy Eric, he was like, yeah, I think so. You know, I didn't, you know, I was thinking, Oh, sounds like get a guest to me. So I tried to tell, I'm like, well, I'll teach you how to do it right. And so. We're backing it up and he punches it and I'm like, I'm like, are you sure you got this? And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all good. And he didn't turn the wheel because it was a manual steering. Right. And he didn't turn the wheel after he went this way, cause the wheel just automatically rolled around and luckily didn't hit anything. And he, and he punches it again. Son of a bitch sister. Me and him are both in there, right? He hops the curb and he runs right into my fucking house. Brian Schoenborn: [00:33:41] Shit. Sean Dustin: [00:33:45] Doing about five to seven miles an hour. Oh my God. Your mom must have been so busy. That's not the end of it. Brian Schoenborn: [00:33:59] Go on. Sean Dustin: [00:34:01] All right, so anyways, like the four dudes that were sitting on the up, I'm up on the by the front door and like they just watched this whole thing. They're just like, they're just, they're blessed and a laughing, right? I just like, fuck you. Me and him get out of the car and I'm like. I'm like, how am I going to hide this Brian Schoenborn: [00:34:24] in Sean Dustin: [00:34:24] your house? Yeah. I wasn't thinking about like, Oh man, this is horrible, man. What am I going to tell my mom? I'm like, how am I, how can I hide this? What can I do to hide this? Cause like I could and like everything started going through my head, like what I could do to get out of this what I do, you know what I mean? And that's how my mind works. It, my mind always worked on how can I get out of getting, or how can I get out of trouble? And then how can I get out of doing anything else, like a work around? And so anyways, I ended up having to drive it back. I grabbed a pillow and a blanket and a like, of course I'm like, dude, what am I, what am I going to do? I can't hide it. I have to. I have to come clean. You know what I mean? It's like probably the first time in my life I ever told the truth. And so anyways, I go and I park and I fall asleep and I told my mom. And so anyway. Once this I like, I had to tell her everything that happened, and this is like 10 o'clock at night. Dude. She literally dragged me over to homeboy's house that, that, uh, drew was driving, right? Uh, and in some other person's house and like all my friends, dude. And so, like embarrassed the shit out of me. That's great. Yeah. I mean, didn't get anything out of it that she wanted. I was like, dude, they're not going to pay for it. I'm going to told him to get in the car and drive. And, uh, so yeah, there was a hole in my room and it hit right perfectly in between, in the stud between the fucking wall in the room. So there's a hole in this room, and then there's a hole in this room. So after, after that, she, uh. I think it was either after that or there was another incident where my aunt came in to live with us and I threw a party, uh, during lunchtime. In like Brian Schoenborn: [00:36:08] a lunch party. Sean Dustin: [00:36:09] Yeah. Like we cut school again. I had a bunch of people come up and I drank too much and passed out and got drunk and somebody ripped off like jewelry and fucking all kinds of shit. So there was that, uh, she ended up sending me to a, you know, what outward bound is. That wilderness program where they send the kids that are bad to try to build confidence and whatever. And so I ended up going to this one in Joshua tree. There was a two week program in Joshua tree and literally like they see they. You have to, they drop you off, you get a map, uh, and you're with some guys and a bunch of people and there's a counselor, and then you have to figure out where your food drops are and all this other stuff. It's really to build confidence in teenagers because, you know, lack confidence and do stupid shit. Right? So I went through that and, uh, uh, I mean, just nothing worked, man. I was just a bad kid. Ended up, uh. Doing a one 51 what did, juvenile hall did? A one 51 at the boys ranch ended up, and this isn't an order, but this was just around that same time. And as a consequence of, of all of that behavior, uh. I ended up getting a violation and they gave me an option to do a night, uh, six month drug rehab, inpatient or, uh, 99 months in juvenile hall. So, of course, I wanted the six months in a, in a, in a group home setting where there was females there, right. The opposite sex. So, I mean, that's all I was thinking around. Um, went to that place. Uh, you know, six months turned into 18 months because you. When you're in a drug rehab, it's not about time. It's about progress. I was manipulating my way through the whole thing. Uh, you know, whether it was having dude, people from the emancipation house buy cigarette packs, bring them to me and I'm selling them for a dollar a piece, $2 a piece to the clients, cause you're only allowed seven. So I'm hustling in there cutting hair. Yeah, well, I think when I got finally somebody ratted on me and they went into the event and they found like a roll of fucking cash, like Lucy's, of course there's a sex story in here. I ended up, I ended up hooking up with this one chicken there, and I was like, you know, we're never going to get away with it and trying to screw here, so let's just leave. I had cash, right. Because I was, I, you know, so what we did is, uh, we took off, uh, we're hanging out. When we got on the Bart train, uh, I was like, there was nowhere for us to go. And I'm like, well, fuck, let's just go to my house. I know what my mom's going to be leaving at some time. Right. So we went to the house, but she had locked everything up. So I, there all of my ways to get in, I couldn't get in anymore. But what I did have was I had this, uh, we hung out, we lived in that were Hills were right. And so there's Hills all around the houses. So I had a Fort that was up in the Hills that when I had left, I remember I had a tent up there cause I would go up there and I'd sleep sometimes. Uh, you know, it's replaced to, I tried to grow weed and I tried to do all this. It was like my spot, right? Yeah. And so I took her up there and I banged her in the in the tent and got what I wanted, and then I was like, all right, well. What are we going to do? And so as soon as my mom came home, I'm like, all right, well, I'm ready to go back. Uh, we packed it, went back to the treatment place. It was in big trouble. Uh, and, uh, yeah, I, I made it through there and then I did good for a little while. And, uh. Once I got out of there, you know, I got a job and I was like 18. When I got out. I got my GED. I was in there doing, uh, this is where I first got my, my, uh, introduction to public speaking because I was doing so well in there. And I'd written some, uh, some, uh, essays and gotten a couple of scholarships for my writing. And. Also did a, uh, outreach to high school. So I go to high schools and I would go and tell my story to all the kids, right. And, uh, but I couldn't figure out a way how to transition that when I got out. How to, how to turn it into something because none of this was available, you know, and podcasts hadn't come out. Uh, Tony Robbins was just scratching the surface, you know, and there was a couple of the guys that were before him, um. So I just kinda like, alright, well I went back home and somehow I ended up moving up to Sacramento. Uh, I used the girl and, uh, I here, this is a shady story, but this is just kinda like to paint a picture of like how, like how my, what my mindset was, man. Brian Schoenborn: [00:41:03] I mean I sit there and I like, I'm laughing cause I'm like, on one sense it just sounds like Sean Dustin: [00:41:08] pure Brian Schoenborn: [00:41:08] like. In a sense, right? Just doing stupid shit, whatever. Right? But on the other side of things is, you know, that's also like a pattern of stuff too, right? So it's like, you know, like the more, the more stupid shit you do, the harder it is to kind of get away from continuing. You know, it's like that cycle, right? It's like a virtuous cycle or the fun virtuous cycle, wherever the fuck you want to call it. Uh, but I'm Sean Dustin: [00:41:31] laughing because I'm like, Brian Schoenborn: [00:41:32] dude, this was a bunch of shit that I would have Sean Dustin: [00:41:34] done to like, see, you know, you know, um. Brian Schoenborn: [00:41:38] But anyways, Sean Dustin: [00:41:38] go ahead. Yeah, yeah. So it, uh, that's, that's kind of where it went. Right. And, and, uh. I moved up to Sacramento and how I had, I had done this, me and my buddy, we were like, Oh, we gotta get outta here. Let's get out of, and me and him were, were doing meth together, right. Or, or crank, whatever it was. And me and him had become best friends. And he went and was staying at my house all the time. And, uh. And this is when I was out. So I really wasn't doing anything, didn't have a job, wasn't doing anything. Mmm. And I'm like, dude, we gotta get outta here. Let's go, let's go move to, uh, to Sacramento. I got, I got a bunch of money coming, and that's what we did. We went and moved up there. I was with this one chick and she was my girlfriend, and she had. Bought a car and put it in my name after I got up there. Right. Because she needed a car. Somehow the, the loan didn't go through and they, uh, had me returned, returned the car, and, uh. They gave me the check, they wrote the check and put it in my name. Brian Schoenborn: [00:42:45] Hmm, nice. Because the Sean Dustin: [00:42:47] title was in your name for the down for the down payment. Right. Bad, bad idea. So needless to say that she was gonna, uh. Do something like she was saving money to, to move out and do this, but she wanted to get this car or whatever. Well, I ended up cashing that check and I blew all that money. It was like 2,500 or something like that. And, uh, she ended up having it broken. I'll have her. And so she moved up there. Um, but I in no way, shape or form boyfriend material, you know what I mean? I had friends that were living in Chico. Uh, I would. I would go up there and I would sell a get an ounce of crank from, from one of my buddies and I'd go up there to Chico state and I'd sell fucking like the whole thing in twenties wow. You know what I mean? Cause all the kids are up there trying to cram for finals and stuff like that. And so they're like. They don't know. They don't know, well, let me just get a teen or let me get a ball. They're like, let me get 10 twenties and I'm like, alright, I'll give you one. And so I'd stay on for. For days at a time, man, and never even contact her or, or anything like that. I, you know, I cheated on a surf umpteen times up there. Fuck dude, I'm in a college town on, on crank, you know, so. Uh, she ended up, that lasted for a little while and I had jobs in between here and there, here and there. But I'm attaching some, she's the fuck up, man. Everything, everything I did didn't, never really, I never took anybody's else's feelings into consideration. Every, every person was a, as a stone for me. You know what I mean? What can I, what can I do to, to, how can you have, be, be of service to me and my needs and what I need from you? And, um. So, yeah, she gave me a dose of my own medicine, cause you know, we lived in a two bedroom apartment upstairs and one of my buddies was a grower up there and she killed me, grown indoors. And so I went and bought all of the shit to do, uh, to do indoor growing. Right. So I had 2000 white lights on a sun circle that's fun around, set up this whole upstairs room to do, to do all this stuff right. Uh, had everything on timers and shit, but I didn't know what I was doing because I had all this equipment, but I didn't know how to really utilize it. I didn't know how to grow weed, even though I'd been trying to do it my whole life. Um, and so it just, you know, I had at one point, I had like 16 plants in here, but they were all real stringy buds cause it was like 90 degrees in there the whole time. You know what I mean? And so it, it, it was kind of a bust, but I had a new one going and I'd figured something out. Well, she had gotten tired of my shit, right. And she's, uh, I knew that something was up. And, uh, she was, she went to go hang out with you. I want to go spend the night at my friend's house. And I'm like, alright, I knew something was up. Right. And so. Mind you, I talked her into becoming a stripper too. Alright, so not, it's not only, not only did you know that's how good of a dude I was like, damn, how can I get the most money out of you? Well, Brian Schoenborn: [00:46:05] I mean, it's also the oldest profession, so I mean, you know, Sean Dustin: [00:46:10] and so I do, I live literally, I, uh, delivered her to the door, cause just like, you know, I used to be a stripper. She went and she auditioned. She got into it. Uh, I knew something was up. And so when I just kinda like, like hung low and it was like surveilling her when she left and it turns out she was fucking around with the, uh, with the door guy. Right. And I didn't try it. I didn't try Brian Schoenborn: [00:46:34] mother Sean Dustin: [00:46:35] fucker. And I was like, all right, it's cool. I know, you know, that's really what I want. I just wanted to know Brian Schoenborn: [00:46:39] you didn't roll up four Sean Dustin: [00:46:40] cars deep. Nah, Brian Schoenborn: [00:46:43] not that time, Sean Dustin: [00:46:44] at that time. Uh, so yeah. Uh, what ended up happening there is I, you know, I told her, Hey, I know what's going on. And I, I whatever, it's uh, you know, and I think one day when I was, uh, at work, cause I was working at a Marie Callender's. Somebody called and asked if I was working right. And I didn't think anything of it. Well, when I went to go home, um, because she had, had been staying with dude and would come when I'm not there and, but the place was even her name, so she was just kind of really waiting for me to get my shit out. Hmm. I think, I don't know. I don't even know what it was. But anyways, I showed up there. The locks were changed. I couldn't get in. Uh, all my stuff is inside and the grow room and all of that equipment. Right. So I hopped up, I hopped the, uh, the balcony, and I. Rip the sliding glass thing off the off the tracks and get in and out. All my plants, all my equipment, everything's gone. My dog's gone. Uh, all everything that we've gotten together was gone on. So she'd had that dude, did she see now she went and moved in with him and he helped her do all that right. And so she'd had a couple of bags of her clothes that she had left there, you know, couldn't get whatever. I took all those, dumped them in the middle of the fucking floor bottles of bleach and, uh, persisted to plead shit out of her clothes. Yeah. I bleached symphony the whole fucking living room of the apartment. Even the, even the, uh. The, what's McAllen? And then to top it off, uh, I was like, all right, well there was a 50 gallon fish tank and it was my fish tank. And I'm like, why? I know where to put them on fucking now. So, uh, boom, busted it fucking, Brian Schoenborn: [00:48:36] no Sean Dustin: [00:48:36] shit. Uh, flood flooded out the, uh, the downstairs neighbors apartment. Right. So, so she got, so I hope that, uh, I mean, and I'm not advocating people do that now, but I mean, my mindset back then was like, well, I hope all my shit was worth it. Brian Schoenborn: [00:48:54] Yeah. You're not vindictive at all right Sean Dustin: [00:48:58] now. I'm not petty. It's like Brian Schoenborn: [00:48:59] somebody, Sean Dustin: [00:49:00] somebody call me Tom petty the other day. So anyways, yeah, I didn't get in trouble for that. She ended up getting foot, having to foot the bill for all the repairs of that. I was friends with the manager, uh, cause she has a chick that I used to hang out with. And so she ended up running me another apartment. She knew who I was growing the weed. She knew I was doing all this other shit, and she just let me rent one right down the way for after about four months, like let it cool down a little bit. Um, and then from there, man, I just, uh, you know, I just got involved with, uh, there was another incident where my homeboy. I was living in, I was living in an apartment. My boy, another buddy moved in with me. He was working, he was a bartender at one of these really popular, uh, uh, nightclubs in Sacramento and, uh, where the Kings used to hang out. Right? The second one, the Kings, this was way back, not, not any time recently. Um, and so anyways. We were hanging out and my other buddy was, you know, his ex was a stripper, and I guess he had done, she had done him dirty and she was like, he was like, well dude, you want to hit a lick? And I'm like, yeah, I'm always down to get free money with them. What's up? So he was like, I know where my ex keeps all of her cash. And, uh, she's got about 20 or 30,000 in there. And, uh, she all, I saw, I got just figure out how to get in the house and I'm like, done. Went and got a lock pick set, uh, taught my other buddy how to do it, you know what I mean? Cause he was going to be the one I said, I'm paying for the lockpick sex. I'm the only one that's got any money and the rest of the year you're going to have to figure out how to do the rest. Right. I didn't want to get my hands dirty. So anyways, he ended up doing that. And uh. We ended up making like seven or $8,000, and we split it. And, uh, so I was trying to be a baller. I live in like a baller hanging out. Uh, we were going to nightclubs. And I remember this one that I took a limo. Uh, so that nightclub right where he worked and, and he was giving us a, you know, we would just give him like. A car and he would hold it and then act like it was a tab, and then we just pay him out some cash for a tip at the end of the night. Right. So it looked like, it looked like we were balling. We ran, I ran into this one dude who I started selling cocaine for, and there was a, there, there was somebody who was trying to confront him, and I didn't really even know him. Uh, but we were talking and we were cool. Right. And, uh, somebody ran up on him and I had, uh, a group of people with me, like an entourage could, we came in, in the thing. And so I had gathered all of them and you had this dudes back, and from that moment on, so you know, when you, have you ever, you ever been friends with a dude? Kinda like, like right when you meet. It's like you two were just, Oh yeah, for sure. Joined at the hip. You know what I mean? It's like, damn. It's like, and it doesn't happen all the time. No, Brian Schoenborn: [00:52:06] it's a straight up romance dude. That's what it is. It's fucking romance. Sean Dustin: [00:52:10] And so, yeah, so it was like. He kind of took me under his wing and like I was at his house all the time and he was married so, and his wife likes me. And so that's where I really started selling drugs at. And, uh, I was in a raid with him at his house cause he had gotten busted and he went to prison. Um, and, uh. Yeah. That was a whole fucked up situation because then I went and lived with her too. You know what I mean? Like help her out with the rent and everything else. Uh, you know, I wasn't fucking around with her or even try to, um, but I was still partying all the time cause I hung out with all these strippers and figuring out how to do what I was doing. Right. I was working in the strip clubs. I was, you know, I think my, my schedule was, the only day I was off was Mondays. It's Tuesday through Sunday. I was either selling in any of the nightclubs, because at one point I was a bouncer of one of these nightclubs. And so I knew all the, all the people that worked there, I was selling ecstasy, GHB, cocaine, mushrooms, uh, you know, you name it, man. When I was living in Sacramento, dude, I was fucked. And so like to the point where I would have people come into my townhouse, like we'd all go party at the, at the club, and after hours was always at my place, and then that's where I would sell more drugs. You know, I'd fucking bring the people there. We have a DJ there. My homeboy's a DJ. And so, um, yeah, that's, you know, that was my life. And I mean, I even had the, my nickname was mr. After hours, if anybody out there listening in Sacramento, Roseville, California area, remember that name, mr. After hours. There we go. That's, uh. Yeah. So, uh, it just, you know, it just kept, I, I just never, you know, I, I ended up hooking up with this other strip for the, you know, I was at one of the clubs that I was selling at. Um, I just got into all kinds of shit, man. I was a there. There's, when I was doing GHB, you remember what that is right. Yeah, well, yeah. Well, I mean, that's what they call it. It can be used for that. Yeah. And so I was on that. I was taking that quite a bit. Right. And it for, it's kind of like marijuana, when you build a tolerance to it, it's your functional on it, right. To a point on it. And so I would get to that point, man, where I would black out standing up. I would, I would black out cause I would just take so much of it. Right. But my, my mind is still going, but my body or, or the other way around, I don't know which one it was, but one of them was still going and the other one wasn't. Yeah. And so I could drive this way and there would be times when I would, uh, I would be driving and I knew that like, here's the exit that I wanted to take. I knew that I knew I want to get off over here and I'd be 20 miles down the road. And I came to not knowing how I got there. Oh, it hadn't wrecked. Yeah. And so just constantly things like that, you know what I mean? And, um. What, how I got to Vegas from there. Um, you know, cause I was into raves and the rave culture, I was going to raves all the time. There was tons of people. Uh, I almost in that period of time, I almost died like three times on overdoses. From ecstasy, you know, mixing drugs, ecstasy, GHB, alcohol. Um, and that was, uh, that really gave me an idea of how insignificant I was, even though I was popular. Um, they all, they, they left me there, you know what I mean? I was falling at the mouth and it's like, they were just like, Oh, well he can say he'll sleep it off. And now, luckily I did wake up, you know, and, uh. Yeah. Because you know, when you're foaming at the mouth like that, that's an obvious sign that you're having a reaction. Brian Schoenborn: [00:55:58] Well, I mean, I'll tell you too, like, I wasn't on the rave scene for awhile too, when I was younger, man. And, uh, you know, this was back when the, uh, when the, when the rave scene was underground warehouses. Sean Dustin: [00:56:09] Right? Brian Schoenborn: [00:56:09] Yeah. And, uh, I mean, I didn't fuck with Jay. I've been drugged three times at probably GHB, but it's been against my knowledge or against my will, obviously. So I don't really know what that feels like. But like, my rave drugs of choice were always acid ecstasy. Ketamine was a good booster for that shit, Sean Dustin: [00:56:27] you know? Brian Schoenborn: [00:56:28] Um, but I mean, if there were, if there were enough of it that, you know, if I took enough of it, I'd be tripping for like. Yeah. That's the one time at trip for like three days straight, dude. I was like, when the fuck is this coming out? But I was never foaming at the Sean Dustin: [00:56:40] mouth, so I was never at the point where like, Brian Schoenborn: [00:56:42] you know, am I overdosing or not? It was just, you know, it was just fucked up for more than one day, Sean Dustin: [00:56:48] which is crazy to think about. You know? Yeah. So the last thing I remember before that happened, right, cause I was already, you know, I started the night with some cocaine, you know, doing Coke, cause that's what I was selling to. Um, and then I, you know, was drinking, doing some, uh, I did a couple of tabs E in that night, in that timeframe, uh, did some G and then when I came back to that apartment, I took a shot of a tequila and then I, and then I dropped a hit. I dropped the tag, a gel cap shoved in my ass. So I mean, that's the last thing I remember and it was, then I woke up in the morning and that wasn't enough for me because as soon as I got up, I was looking for the GHB so I could still, I mean, it was, I could never get high enough. Oh, I said, I said that wasn't enough because after I woke up and I passed out and woke up, I went looking for the GHB so I can get high again. Um, you know, so that was never enough for me. Yeah. I just wanted to keep going and stepping it up and stepping it up. Brian Schoenborn: [00:57:52] So did you say you were in Vegas for what? Like were you living in Vegas or were you just like, they're raving? Sean Dustin: [00:57:56] Yeah. Well, no, I lived in Vegas after I lived in SAC. So the reason why I left. Brian Schoenborn: [00:58:00] When did you live in Vegas? I lived in Vegas too, actually. So Sean Dustin: [00:58:04] I lived in Vegas. Early to the early 2000 yeah, 2000 because my daughter was born their first daughter, so that's 2000 through probably 2004 is when I got arrested and went to prison. Brian Schoenborn: [00:58:18] I was there from 2006 to 2009 so yeah. Would have just missed each other. Sean Dustin: [00:58:25] This is a weird place. Brian Schoenborn: [00:58:26] Vegas is crazy. It's, dude, it's such a weird place. Like, it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. Like, I, you know, like I knew, I knew like some of the top photographers and shit like that inside the clubs. So like, you know, I never had to, never had to wait in line. You know, if I, if me and my friends saw group of hot chicks, we'd bring them with us and we never had a pink cover, you know, half the time we'd get free booze or whatever, table service, whatever else. Sean Dustin: [00:58:50] Um. I had a pluggage raise, uh, for awhile before, before drays was what it is now. Brian Schoenborn: [00:58:56] Yeah. I remember that. Sean Dustin: [00:58:58] This was the small, small drains, you know what I mean? Just like a little, like a dungeon when you go down in there. Brian Schoenborn: [00:59:04] So, so when I was there, I mean, I like, so my, a friend of mine. Uh, he is now like the most prominent photographer in Vegas. He shoots everything at the, uh, the T-Mobile arena or whatever it is. When, when they do the awards shows, sporting events, Las Vegas nights, he does all the UFC shit, uh, everything ESPN related. Like he's, he's big time. But he got us started. He was one of the first photographers that was going into nightclubs and taking pictures of people having fun. And then they would put it in posted on a website. I don't know if you ever heard about that shit. I don't know if that was after you, um, after you went to prison or whatever. But that was, that was the early, that was like 2005, two thousand fourteen thousand five, 2006 when that stuff was starting to happen. Sean Dustin: [00:59:50] Yeah. Um. Brian Schoenborn: [00:59:52] And, I mean, he's making fucking buck now, dude. He's, he's trying, he's probably closing in on like half a million a year, Sean Dustin: [00:59:59] right? Yeah, yeah. To a regular dude like us. You know what I mean? Right. Brian Schoenborn: [01:00:06] Total baller status, dude. Especially when you start by like just taking pictures for free and posting them on a website. Sean Dustin: [01:00:12] Yeah. Like what everybody does now. Brian Schoenborn: [01:00:14] Yeah. It was one of the first guys to do it. Sean Dustin: [01:00:17] That's funny. That's what Instagram is now, right? Brian Schoenborn: [01:00:20] No, Sean Dustin: [01:00:20] absolutely. Yeah. Precursor. So anyways, Sacramento, why we, why we left Sacramento? I ended up hooking up with a stripper. I got her pregnant. Um, I was hanging out with some rough dudes, uh, from the city. Um, I was hanging out with a lot of guys that were, uh, I don't know if you've ever heard of area 51 productions. I was a rape company out here. Yeah. They were, uh, uh, bringing in shit from Amsterdam and, you know, rolling heavy in, in the, in the ecstasy game. And, uh, I was just like, I had gotten into some funk with this dude and he was, he was crazy. It was a black dude. And it was my homeboy, cause my homeboy rich is, uh, uh, one of his friends. And, uh. We, we had gotten to some fuck man, and it was one of those things where if. If we cross paths again, somebody wasn't gonna walk away. Yeah. And so I, I kind of, I kind of, cause the dude was a lot like he was, he was a lot, he was a lot more strict than I was, let's say that, you know what I mean? He was kind of, he's kind of rough and I was a little scared of him. Um, and so I was like, well, you know what? This would be a good time to leave. This isn't a good time to leave Sacramento. Uh, and so I'm like. You know, my check's already stripping cause I'm with a stripper, right? I'm like, well shit, you got about what. You know, at least five months that you could still work. Correct. Right. So let's go to Vegas. You can go work at one of those strip clubs there, you know, that'd be great for you. You know what I mean? Cause I'm not worried about where I'm going to work. I'm just, we need to know where you're going to go because you got to pay for me. There he is again. You know that guy. That's always an angle into it to make sure that he's taken care of right. So many ways. We moved to Vegas. Uh, had my daughter. Um, things are okay. We're whatever I'm drinking. No, none of the hardcore fucking. And then my homeboy, my homeboy moves up there and, uh, with his, uh, check his stripper, right? So he moves up there and, uh, I had moved him out at one point, uh, from like when she went into Vegas to work, you know, when we were living in SAC, I had moved him and all of his shit out of her house once. Right? And he ended up getting back together with her, and then they moved up there. I ended up hooking up with him and, uh. Yeah. Do we, we just started partying together and hanging out, and then I moved. I moved him out of there into my house. So the same thing. She went to Vegas again and fucking, when she came back, all his shit was gone and he was living with me now and Vegas and me and him just, we're going to strip clubs and just doing all kinds of shit. Fucking doing drugs, whatever, party

In today's episode, we help Melissa take her writing business to the next level. FULL TRANSCRIPT Jocelyn Sams: Hey y'all. On today's podcast, we help Melissa take her writing business to the next level. Shane Sams: Welcome to The Flipped Lifestyle Podcast, where life always comes before work. We're your hosts, Shane and Jocelyn Sams. We're a real family that figured out how to make our entire living online. Now, we help other families do the same. Are you ready to flip your life? All right, let's get started. Shane Sams: What's going on everybody? Welcome back to The Flipped Lifestyle Podcast. It is great to be back with you again today. Super excited to be helping another one of our amazing Flip Your Life community members take their business and their life to the next level. We are super excited today to welcome Melissa Webb to the show. Melissa, welcome to the podcast. Melissa Webb: Well, thank you so much you guys. I am so excited. This is such a big deal for me, and I can't thank you enough for having me on. Jocelyn Sams: Yeah. I have been, seriously, waiting for this podcast for weeks, because I have an amazing story to tell about Melissa. We actually have not met Melissa in real life just yet, but she did sign up for one of our coaching calls. We do a limited amount of one-on-one coaching, and Melissa had signed up to talk to me. Jocelyn Sams: This is kind of interesting because I do a lot of calls in the evening because my kid is doing gymnastics and it's in another town, and it really isn't a long enough amount of time for me to drive all the way home, so I sit in a parking lot while I wait for her. Shane Sams: Oh my gosh. This story's amazing. I forgot about this. Oh, guys, buckle up. This is the best story ever. Jocelyn Sams: This is actually my first evening call that I had done since we started doing the one-on-one calls. I thought, "Hey, I'm going to have something to do while I'm sitting here waiting. This is not the worst thing, make a little money and hang out and talk to somebody in our community." Like, "Pretty good night." Shane Sams: She does it in a parking lot because in this little, small Southeast Kentucky town, literally, the only place you can get enough Internet to make a call is in the Walmart parking lot, so that's why she's sitting in a parking lot making this call. Jocelyn Sams: This is pretty much as like Podunk, small town as it gets, okay? Shane Sams: I love it! You said, "Podunk." Jocelyn Sams: This is, okay, I just want to like also say that this is not even a Super Walmart, okay? This is like a- Shane Sams: It's an old school Walmart- Jocelyn Sams: Old school. Shane Sams: It's like 1987 Walmart is what we're talking about here. Jocelyn Sams: Yes. Okay, so I'm sitting in the parking lot and I just connected up to Melissa, who's in California, right? Melissa Webb: Yes. Jocelyn Sams: Okay. I just connected up to her in California. I go to the parking lot and I find a place to go, which is underneath a big light pole, so I think, "This is fine." Let me just say also that I have sat in this parking lot, literally, like hundreds of times, completely uneventful. Jocelyn Sams: I go and I connect up on this call to Melissa. I park in the middle of the parking lot under a big light pole. We had, seriously, been on the call maybe about 60 seconds when this, as I call it, van full of rednecks pulls up beside me. When I say beside me, I mean like within probably 50 feet. Not even that. I'd say about 20 feet from me. Jocelyn Sams: Not only was it a van full of rednecks, they have the doors, like the side doors are all open. They are yelling at someone in a pickup truck across the parking lot, and not only are they yelling at them, this crazy woman gets out with a baseball bat, a baseball bat. You cannot make this up, and starts waving it at this man in the parking lot. Shane Sams: A fight breaks out in a Walmart parking lot, led by a crazy woman with a baseball bat and it's a van full of rednecks versus a pickup truck. Jocelyn Sams: I could nearly, I could almost reach out and touch them. I'm on this call, that someone has paid for, Melissa has paid for, and I'm like, "Uh ..." I don't even know what to say. Because I'm just like, when on earth are you in this situation? It's not like anything has prepared you for this situation. Shane Sams: Yeah. Has anyone else ever had to ... You had to move your car. You had to move it. Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, so I'm like, "Uh, okay. I know this sounds really weird, but like there's these people beside me ..." Shane Sams: There's a street fight breaking out next to me, Melissa, and I got to go to the other end of the Walmart parking lot. At this point, Melissa's probably like, "Maybe I signed up for the wrong first step." Jocelyn Sams: No, listen. She was like so nice to me. She's like, "I just want you to be safe." Shane Sams: Melissa, what were you thinking when Jocelyn was like, "Hey, look a street fight just broke out between this woman with a baseball bat and a dude in a pickup truck, so could you give me five minutes-" Melissa Webb: Oh my gosh. Shane Sams: ... "and start the call?" Like what were you thinking at this point right now? Melissa Webb: I was thinking like, "Okay, I could totally write a story here." Jocelyn Sams: Exactly. Shane Sams: You couldn't make it up, because nobody could imagine something like that happening. Jocelyn Sams: No, you can't make this stuff up. Melissa Webb: Totally, so from my perspective, it was fantastic. Like I have told this story so many times because on my end, so here I was, I put down a good chunk of change to like have some valuable time, one-on-one with Jocelyn, and so she was right. Like 60 seconds in, she's asking me some questions, I'm giving her some feedback and then she's like, "Um, hang on just a second. There is a person wielding a bat next to me." Shane Sams: Wielding a bat. This is- Melissa Webb: I'm like, "Jocelyn, just call me back." Like, "Drop the phone, go. Go be safe." Like, "Go take care of yourself." She's like, "No, hang on just a second," and like I hear the phone like fly out of her hand, like probably into the passenger seat. The car's moving. Shane Sams: Oh my god. Melissa Webb: I'm just like on the line, like hanging on. Like, "Is she okay? What's going on?" All of a sudden, like I don't know, seconds go past and she comes back on, totally collected herself. She's like, "Okay, that was interesting, so that's what we were talking about." Shane Sams: Task switching at its finest right there. Jocelyn Sams: Oh my goodness, so- Shane Sams: She's also simultaneously texting a friend of hers- Jocelyn Sams: Yes. Shane Sams: ... to dial 911 to call the police because there's a fight breaking out in Walmart's parking lot. Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, because I'm on this call and I've already been like, "Hold on just a minute." I don't want to be like, "Hold on, let me call the cops." Jocelyn Sams: Being the like ever-present professional that I am, I get on my computer and I typed to my friend on text, because her uncle is like the Police Chief of this town. I'm like, "Can you please call the police and tell them to come?" The police do come. They talked to the people. No one was arrested because, I guess, no like physical ... Shane Sams: She didn't swing her bat. Jocelyn Sams: Yeah. Shane Sams: Apparently, so no. Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, and they're like, this whole thing, they're like yelling profanity. I mean, this was like, you cannot make this up. I mean, you just can't. Melissa Webb: No. Shane Sams: The moral of the story is if you want to be on the most entertaining coaching calls in the history of the world, be a part of The Flip Your Life community and you might grab one of these street fight calls with me and Jocelyn. You know what I mean? Like- Melissa Webb: Oh my gosh. It was awesome. Shane Sams: She sent me a message- Melissa Webb: I was awesome. Shane Sams: She sent me a message- Melissa Webb: It was awesome because it all ended well. Shane Sams: Yeah, no doubt. Nobody hit the ... Broke our windshield with a baseball bat to prove they could swing it. Like, the funny thing was that Jocelyn also text me. She sent me this weird text. Shane Sams: It was like, "Talking to Melissa. Just called the police on a big woman with baseball bat." I'm like, "What?" Like, how ... I didn't even know what she was talking about, so I didn't hear this story 'til later, and oh my gosh. I laughed for hours and hours and hours about that call, so ... Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, so there's never a dull moment. Shane Sams: We decided to bring you on the podcast for surviving the street fight at Walmart. Jocelyn Sams: Well, I just wanted to say that I did over-deliver for this call. We talked for a really long time because I felt really bad about this. Melissa Webb: It was the half hour session and she gave me a full hour. Shane Sams: Oh, I love it. Jocelyn Sams: Exactly. Shane Sams: See, that's how you- Jocelyn Sams: Yeah. It all turned out okay. We talked through some stuff. I think that we had a good ending, and you've actually had some successes since, so I can't wait to dive into that. Let's kind of bring this thing back around a little bit. Tell everybody a little bit about you and like your background and what you're doing online. Melissa Webb: Oh, absolutely. I do have to say I'm very happy to know that you're recording this in the safety of your own home. Shane Sams: Right, exactly. Melissa Webb: Okay, so yes. A little bit about me. As anybody might see on my Instagram profile, I am a bold believer and I am a very happy wife of pretty much the world's must supportive husband. I hear people talk about not having that. I'm so grateful I have that. I am a loving mom of three spectacular boys. Our youngest is now 15 years old. Melissa Webb: I am a very passionate teacher, especially when it comes to writing. I will geek out over course standards and things of that nature. I am the creator and owner of WriteOnWebb.com. I am a huge fan of home schooling moms everywhere, they are the unsung heroes. Jocelyn, you are joining those ranks, girl. In the spring of 2019, I'm also going to be a published children's book author, super excited for that. As of January 11th, 2019, I will be unemployed. Jocelyn Sams: Wow. Shane Sams: That's crazy. Because that's happening in like what? Three weeks? Is that what- Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: Yes, wow. Now, are you unemployed or unemployable? There's a difference there, you see what I mean? Melissa Webb: Oh, good. Shane Sams: Unemployable is like, "I'm going to go make my own money and not work for anyone else." That's like what unemployable is, correct? Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: My mom and ... Jocelyn's grandfather, I tell this story all the time. When we quit our jobs ... Like he's an old guy, worked in the coal mines. Didn't really get it, what we were doing. Right? Melissa Webb: Yeah. Shane Sams: One time, we went home and he reached over and slipped me a 20 in a handshake and he pat me on the shoulder and he goes, "I know you're not working now, son, so there's a little gas money to get home." I'm like- Jocelyn Sams: Which was so sweet. Shane Sams: It was so sweet, I was like, "Do I want to break this guy's heart?" Melissa Webb: So sweet. Shane Sams: ... Or just be like, "Thanks, papa," you know what I mean? Like I just took the money. He didn't realize I was unemployable, not unemployed. Does that make sense? Melissa Webb: I love it. Shane Sams: Awesome. Melissa Webb: I love it. It was by my choice, in fact. I've been a teacher for 26 years and I have worked for an amazing charter school, Julian Charter School in San Diego area, and love it. I'm happy to be leaving on excellent terms. Shane Sams: Awesome. Melissa Webb: I'm actually kind of switching hats. I want to be a vendor of theirs, so I can still support their home schooling families in the area of writing. It's all good, it's just I kind of feel like I want to throw up and jump for joy at the same time. Shane Sams: For sure. It's a big change. Jocelyn Sams: Yes. Shane Sams: Any big change like that is going to be, not disruptive, but just like riding a new wave. Right? Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: It's going to be scary to go out and do something different. Does your online business, this Write On Webb, it's supporting home school co-ops and home school teachers for writing, or is it bigger than that? Like what's ... Or is it a bigger, broader scope than that? Like what exactly is Write On Webb? Melissa Webb: I directly work with home schooling moms, who want to teach excellent writing but they're, honestly, they're overwhelmed. With the whole Common Core and course standards, all students are supposed to understand the difference between persuasive and expository and narrative and then understand what descriptive is, and then all of the subcategories under that. It's a lot. Melissa Webb: It's what I love to teach, and so I actually am happy to teach it, so that they can take something off their plate. They know that everything I put out for them ... I use Teachable to house all of my lessons, so I have all the videos are embedded in that. I think the biggest difference that people love about what I'm doing is that I create a community of these young writers in grades three through eight. Shane Sams: Got you. Melissa Webb: They love that. Like the kids, like I have a joke of the week every week. It's a Q&A time and we go live. It's the one thing that in a home school environment, if a family is not using co-op for things like that, then who's their audience? Melissa Webb: The child needs an audience and as great as mom is, that's a tough one. You need other children to be around and you get that in a traditional class, but when you're home schooled, it's like that missing piece, and I provide that and have so much fun doing it. Shane Sams: That's awesome. We just started home schooling about two weeks ago. Melissa Webb: I know. I'm so excited for you. Shane Sams: It's been really, really good but really, really challenging. Not hard. Like there's nothing been hard about like ... Like hard is laying bricks or building a ... You know what I mean? Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: It has been ... You got to be more intentional. You really got to control your schedule. There is a lot more responsibility feeling to it, right? Melissa Webb: Oh, yes. Shane Sams: You know what I'm saying? Writing was one of the things Jocelyn was worried about. Like getting that writing experience. Like we live in a small area. Shane Sams: There are some people working together, but it's not like in a bigger city or like a San Diego where you're going to have these co-ops, you're going to have these schools, you're going to have all these resources, so we've definitely turned toward these virtual type things for different subjects, like what you're doing. Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: There's millions of kids being home schooled. Like people don't realize how many people are actually being home schooled out there. You know? Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: This would even be good ... This is like, this could even be supplemental to kids who are struggling with writing in regular school though too, right? Melissa Webb: Absolutely. I've actually started from my monthly live courses, I've created stand-alone versions so that people can do just that. I've already had a few sales of that. I think you're absolutely right. Then in the summer, I usually do ... I actually did a, I did a really fun book club last summer. I did invite Isaac, by the way. Jocelyn Sams: Oh, okay. Shane Sams: Oh, you did? Was it virtual? Was it an email? Okay. Melissa Webb: I was like, "Hey, Isaac should join." For some reason, you were busy or something. Shane Sams: Oh, yeah. Okay. We will definitely look for that this year. We get a lot of messages, Melissa. Melissa Webb: You think? Shane Sams: You can imagine what our inbox looks like and all that. Melissa Webb: Oh, I can only imagine. Shane Sams: We may have missed that one. I love that, because you've got so much opportunity to make money year-round with something like this, and you can just- Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: ... kind of pass through different seasons of different people's calendars and make that happen. Melissa Webb: Yes, well, okay. In the forum, which, okay, can I just say how much I love your forum? Because it is gold. I just, I have to say, so at first, people will, obviously, want to listen to your podcasts, because your podcasts are just free value. Melissa Webb: I heard you first on Pat Flynn, and I haven't stopped listening to you since. That was like, I don't know ... The one I heard, because I think you've been on a few times, was back in May 2017. I think it was his number 265, I think. Shane Sams: Oh yeah, that was- Melissa Webb: Anyway, yeah. I started listening, I haven't stopped. At first, I was like, "This is awesome. It's all free stuff. This is really great." You are so generous as individuals. Like you can just tell it's from your heart. Melissa Webb: I was just gobbling up all of your free information and making huge progress until finally, I was like, "I really love this forum that they're talking about. I like the idea. I want to get in there and check it out." I'm going to tell you, like people don't get how much they're missing. Like not only do you have your blueprint, which has like all of the video lessons embedded in there ... That's where I got my idea. Melissa Webb: Like, I was like, "Ah, I love how they have this here. They still have live components, but they have all these resources that I can go to on my own time and my own schedule." Then, I jumped in and started talking to other like-minded people, and amazing, amazing. Then I heard, do you remember Cory Doohan? Shane Sams: Oh, yeah. Melissa Webb: He was on your number 190. He was the auto detailing expert. Shane Sams: Yup. Melissa Webb: Yeah. He and this other guy Nick Robishaud and then another gentleman by the name of Mike Henry. We all put together a Mastermind and we still meet. It's been like eight months. We were just figuring it out, how long it's been. It's been eight months. We meet every other week- Shane Sams: Wow. Melissa Webb: ... in a Zoom room. We hold each other accountable- Shane Sams: None of you knew each other beforehand, right? None of you knew each other before the forums. You met each other like in the community and started getting together and all that. Melissa Webb: Yes. It was your community. Yeah. Shane Sams: Isn't it cool though, like to have like ... We always view like everything ... We try to always view it like a ... When we say community, we don't just mean like, "Oh, you're in our online membership." It's literally like a community. Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: You've got your family, you've got your friends, you've got your extended network. We really, like we even call our live event, the big one that we do every year, we call it the Flip Your Life family reunion when we talk about it. Like we don't actually call it like the live conference or some business thing, we call it the family ... "What time's the family reunion? Yeah, we're starting at 3:00." Like we actually talk about it like that. Melissa Webb: Oh, absolutely. Shane Sams: It's amazing how many of these little pockets of Masterminds do happen. They're all over the place. Jocelyn Sams: Probably some we don't even know about. Like I know that there's one that meets in Ohio. There's several ladies who get together. Shane Sams: One up in Cleveland. Yeah, that group. One in California. You guys are meeting online, virtually. Jocelyn Sams: There are a bunch of people who do like Zoom calls and things like that. I mean, we would love to know about these. Maybe we should start a discussion in the community. Shane Sams: Yeah. We need to get a list of all of them. Like it's crazy how ... Jocelyn and I always talk to each other about like, we talk to, yeah, we actually had someone on the podcast though today that lives in Saudi Arabia. Like what are chances that two people in Kentucky would connect on a business call and a podcast with someone on the other side of the planet. Shane Sams: Then we hear about you guys meeting each other, and like one's in California, one's in Canada, one's over here, one's over there. It's like these connections would never happen in some random course. It's happening because this community is a living, breathing, actual place for like-minded people, family-focused entrepreneurs to connect. Shane Sams: Yeah, it blows our mind every day when we hear stories like this. There's a funny story about Nick Robishaud. Nick came to our live event. I don't know if you know this story. I don't know, did he tell you about what happened in the moderator thing? Did he tell you guys about- Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: Okay- Melissa Webb: He was so stoked about that experience. Shane Sams: We have moderators in our community, people who are really active. They're in there, they're helping a lot of people. We give them a few perks to help us kind of just moderate and manage forums, just like any community would have online. Jocelyn Sams: In September, one of the things that we offered for our moderators was when we had our live event, we had like a little special- Shane Sams: Like moderator meetup, but with us. Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, so we met them like before we met everyone else, just as like a little perk of, to say, "Thank you for being a moderator." Shane Sams: I'm standing there, and we have a lot of moderators so it's hard for me ... We have, there's so many people we have to manage, it's hard for me to remember every single person, every single minute. Nick walks up to me and I don't really recognize him. He's got a thing on that says "moderator." It says "Nick Robishaud." Shane Sams: Like sometimes, like our assistant will hire a moderator and then we'll find out about it later, and then we'll talk to them. It's like all kinds of different ... Jocelyn Sams: We're giving out these invitations, so when people checked-in, they got a name tag that said "moderator" if they were a moderator, and then they got an invitation to tell them where and when to go to the party. Shane Sams: Nick comes up to me, goes, "Hey, Shane." I'm, "Hey, Nick." I thought he might have been a brand new moderator or something like that. He goes, "Shane, listen. I feel bad." I go, "Why do you feel bad, man? We're here to have a good time." He goes, "No, man. Let me tell you something." He leans in and he goes, "You see, I'm not really a moderator." I go, "What?" I go, "What do you mean?" Shane Sams: Now remember, this is only for moderators. There's 20 people in this room, all by ourselves. I'm like, "Did this guy beat up a guy in the elevator and take his pass?" Like, "How did he get in here?" Jocelyn Sams: The funny thing is, we never would have known. Shane Sams: I never would have known if he had never said anything. Jocelyn Sams: We never would have known. Shane Sams: I would have found out later, but he goes, "Yeah, man," he goes, "I got to the sign-in table, they handed me my name badge and they handed me this envelope. I open it up and it's got my name on it and it says 'moderator.' I thought, 'Oh, no. They've accidentally put me on the moderator list.' I went over to the side and I called my wife and I said, 'What do you think I should do? Do you think I should tell them or do you think I should just go to this party so I can hang out with Shane and Jocelyn?'" She was like, "Go to the party." Shane Sams: He just went with it and he just walked in and he was like, "Yeah." He goes, "I just, I'm sorry. I just could not pass this up. I had to come up here and talk to you guys." Jocelyn Sams: We laughed so hard. Shane Sams: I laughed so hard. I actually was so impressed that he did that, because that's exactly what I would have done. Like I would have totally went over to Jocelyn and like, "Look ..." Jocelyn Sams: You would have no conscious about it. Shane Sams: I would have had no conscious about it. I wouldn't have asked her, I'd have told her, "We're going to this party because we got in." He came upstairs, and we hung out. If anyone ever makes a mistake, they give you the key, walk through the door. Jocelyn Sams: Exactly. Shane Sams: It was absolutely- Melissa Webb: Gosh. Yeah. Shane Sams: I actually opened my computer and I made him a moderator right there. I just said, "All right. Now you're really a moderator, so you're here legally, Nick." Melissa Webb: I love it. I love it. Well, and when Nick was telling us the story, because it is like the best story, he was saying like at one point he was like, "You know what? I know if this happened to Shane, he would totally go to this party, so I'm going." Shane Sams: 100%. Without- Jocelyn Sams: Absolutely. Shane Sams: Yes. Jocelyn Sams: Yes. Nick, he's one of my introvert friends. I had this conversation with him. We talked about being an introvert and all the different challenges of it. Awesome person. So glad that I had the opportunity to meet him in person. Shane Sams: You got a good group. I would keep that group together as well. Jocelyn Sams: They are amazing. Shane Sams: Okay. All right, let's turn back to you now. Let's talk about your business. Jocelyn Sams: All right, so we talked a few weeks ago and- Melissa Webb: Yes. Jocelyn Sams: We talked about some different things that you were working on, and we talked about kind of what next steps you were going to take. Let's start there and talk about like what were you doing before? What have you done after? Then, we'll sort of get into your next steps. Melissa Webb: Absolutely. When I talked to you, one of the ... Well, one of the issues that I was having at the time and I know a lot of people struggle with this. I had so many ideas going around in my head that I really didn't know what to do, like in what order. Melissa Webb: Lots of people will tell you, "Just write it all down." Okay, great. Now those ideas are out of my head but they're still staring at me, glaring at me on this piece of paper. I still don't know what I need to do first, second, third, fourth. Again, the list felt like it was 20 ideas deep. Melissa Webb: What I loved about our conversation, Jocelyn, is that you were ... It was so, it seemed so simple to you to be able to just say, "Okay, so out of all of these things, it sounds like first we're going to want to help you grow your list, but before we do that, let's take a look at your Google Analytics. You just, you had these few steps for me to do. Melissa Webb: One of the things that I had said is that, I really wanted to grow my home schooling audience and I wasn't sure really how to that. Obviously, I did the Facebook things and some of the social medias. You had also suggested putting things on my website, some free giveaways, things that would really draw a person in. Melissa Webb: That whole thing about it's important that, you have to realize if people don't know you, they don't trust you, and they don't like you yet. You need to let people know you, trust you, like you. I thought, "That is a great idea. I'm going to put some things on there that are just like those giveaways, and that the course comes with an exchange in email." I did all of that. Melissa Webb: Then you suggested I start listening to like podcasts of home schoolers, so I started looking at some of those. Then I was like, "I really want to find out ... I don't want to just, out of the blue, go to these people and say, 'May I be on your podcast? I really want to bring value to you and to your community.'" How do I ... I just felt so lost. I really appreciated that you gave me some steps in doing that. Melissa Webb: That's where I am right now, is where I really want to continue. The question that I have or the advice that I need is if I were to approach a podcast host, what could I offer or suggest that might interest them in having me on? Jocelyn Sams: Okay, we will get into that, for sure. I want you to talk about, a little bit, you posted a success story. We talked like, I guess it was about a month ago. We're recording this in like mid-December right now. Talk about your success story. You did these things. We talked, you did the work, and what happened? Melissa Webb: A lot happened. I actually, since we talked last time, I have gone up in 50 ... I have 50 new subscribers and so my email list has grown. I ended up doing another ... I just have to tell you, so Jocelyn, you motivated me to like work, work, work, work, work. I think I put a few success stories in there, so I'm not even sure if there's a specific one that you're talking about. Melissa Webb: I most recently did the KingSumo giveaway, where I was giving away books. I got more people that way. I mean, the whole thing, the whole idea, and you guys are so big on this, is it takes action people. Like you can't just think it and want it, you have to do it. I've just been doing. Like since we got off the phone, I stayed up another four hours that night, you had me so motivated. Jocelyn Sams: I love that, I love that. Shane Sams: Basically- Melissa Webb: Everything's off like crazy. If there's a specific one you want to know about, you just tell me, but I just don't stop. Shane Sams: Basically, what happened was, you talked to Jocelyn. The big thing was, is growing your list. One of the strategies she talked about was, well, if you go out and go on 20 of these podcasts, we'll probably get a bunch more emails. Right? Melissa Webb: Right. Shane Sams: You started ticking off all the other ideas, like putting thing actually on your site, they can opt-in when they find the site. Going out and offering some kind of benefit or opt-in or something like that. Low and behold, you did that and your email list actually started growing. Jocelyn Sams: The one that I was talking about specifically is the one where you talked about getting 10 new members in December. Like that's crazy. A lot of people think, "Oh, December is so busy. It's Christmas time," whatever. You said, "No. I'm not going to use that as an excuse. I'm going to create some type of value for these people and pitch them something." Low and behold, what happened? Melissa Webb: I did. I got 10 more. I now have 70 students- Shane Sams: That's amazing. Melissa Webb: ... total in my online writing business. Shane Sams: It's cool because, like after you talked to Jocelyn, like all ... These things are cumulative. That's what people really don't realize. I think that's what Jocelyn's trying to get to. Shane Sams: Basically, if you do these five actions steps and you just get them done, regardless of it's the right order or the wrong order, the end different order, doesn't matter. Things happen. Like if you had 10 members, you add 50, 60 something, you added one-seventh of your membership in one month, right? Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: Well, like what if you do that again and again and it keeps getting cumulative? Then you start going on podcasts, and then it starts all adding up to where you get this snowball effect, this avalanche happens where you make things happen, right? That's where we go back to the 20 thing list that you had. You were paralyzed and not doing anything, looking at the 20 thing list on paper, right? Melissa Webb: Yes, yes. Shane Sams: That's where most people really fail when they try to change their life, is they see all the things and they get paralyzed, when really, if you'll just do some of the things, you'll move forward and things will happen and that cumulative compound interest effect happens until you get to the point where you can do whatever you want. Shane Sams: I talked to ... I had a call this morning with somebody else in the Flip Your Life community and we talked about that exact same thing. They were paralyzed, they were frozen, they weren't doing anything. They were like, "Why is nothing happening?" I'm like, "Because you're not doing anything. You've got this giant list, you've got all these things, but you're not enjoying the compound effect. Shane Sams: " Then they said, "Well, wait. Well, how much time you think we're going to put into this? How much time did you and Jocelyn put into it at the beginning?" I said, "Well, we worked from 7:00 to 5:00. We came home, we went back and forth with the kids. We stayed up 'til midnight. For seven days a weeks, 365 days for the first year, we did not get good sleep or any good rest, but now we sleep in as long as we want to." Because the compound interest is coming to fruition. We're getting that effect later. Shane Sams: That's what we told them, and I told them earlier, and that's exactly what you're saying now. It's like, "Oh, I was paralyzed, and nothing was happening." "Oh, I got, a log jam broke free after this call, and now I got 10 members just like that." That's what we want you to do next. Melissa Webb: That's ... Yeah. Shane Sams: Let that loose and get even more members. Melissa Webb: That's exactly what she did for me. Like that whole paralyzation, like that's the key word, you hit it on the nose. I felt paralyzed. Melissa Webb: Once I started doing one thing, that is the amazing thing that I would say to anybody else. "Don't really worry with the first one or two, three things that you start. Just start, because that will motivate you to do whatever's next. Then when that ball starts rolling, it just goes. Just do not, do not stop." Shane Sams: This, just, Jocelyn and I are like two ends of the spectrum. Like she's very much like order and I'm very much like chaos. Sometimes, when we get stuck, like Jocelyn has like ... Almost dies, because I'll just go do anything. Shane Sams: Like the other day, we were frozen in a conversation talking some different things about membership offers. Like how we were going to move some things around in the membership itself and we were totally paralyzed. I sent an email to the list and said, "We're going to do these three things." Jocelyn goes, "Have you even made the order forms for those? Have you even made the page for those?" I was like, "Nope, but now the ball's rolling." Shane Sams: Like we just ... Like it drives her crazy when I do that, but sometimes that's the only way you can get past the impasse is to just announce and say and do and, "What if it breaks? What if doesn't?" Shane Sams: What was it last ... Oh, last year, when we sold the live event, I sent an order form out and I didn't connect it to anything. Jocelyn was like, "You know we have to have a survey for these people, and we have to figure out their dietary restrictions, and have to do all of these things." I'm like, "Ah, whatever. We'll do it later." Then it got it unstuck. Like we had to launch it out or it wouldn't work, right? Melissa Webb: Right. Shane Sams: Yeah. It's so scary to do that, but if you don't, oh my gosh, you'll just sit there forever and wonder, "What if?" as you look back on it. Melissa Webb: I totally agree, and I think too that the live component is so huge. Because, like I said, I'd written my list. I'd written my list many times, but talking to Jocelyn and then like sharing my success stories in the forum, a live person encouraged me. A live person said, "Go do this." Melissa Webb: I think that a lot of people, if all you're going to do is just go read a book and go study under some other great coach, that's fine but until you get that live person who cares about you ... Jocelyn cared. Like I could tell her sincerity was authentic. She was like, "Melissa, this is going to be great. You're doing awesome." Like it was so motivating. Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, and I don't even know that it's that you always have to talk one-on-one, because some people might not be able to make that investment right now, but there is something that you can invest in to get you to your next step. Maybe it is just joining a community like ours. I mean, I would love to have anyone as part of our community. Shane Sams: Or getting in a Mastermind where you see other people doing it. It might even be telling you what to buy sometimes. Jocelyn Sams: Maybe it's buying a book, maybe it's going to an event. Like there's different kinds of investment for different stages of your business. If you're not doing any of them, I got a spoiler alert, you're probably not going to make much progress. You have to invest time, you have to invest money to be able to move forward in anything that you do. Shane Sams: That's why we did home school. Like we would have probably never done it, especially when we did it. Melissa Webb: Right. Shane Sams: Because we actually brought two experts on the podcast who had written a book called 5-Hour Home School Week. It was, how do you pronounce their last name? It's Kaleena and Aaron ... Jocelyn Sams: Oh, I don't know. Shane Sams: Oh, it's Amuchastegui or something like that. Jocelyn Sams: Yeah. Shane Sams: They're on the podcast. Go listen to it. It's already aired. Melissa Webb: They were great. Shane Sams: Yeah. We actually brought them out and talked to them for two hours. We needed to hear and see someone else do it. Like, we need that. It's not like we're just sitting here figuring everything out on our own, right? We draw as much inspiration from other people as they do from us. Melissa Webb: Right. Shane Sams: That's just a part of it. Let's go back, let's circle back around to this question about the podcast. Because this was a very interesting question because we always ask people about fears and obstacles, and then we talk practically about what to do next for business. This is the ultimate question that, basically, rolls all of that into one. Shane Sams: It's like, "How do I approach someone else to be on their platform?" Because that in itself brings all of your insecurities, all of your doubts, all of your disbeliefs to the front. Then on the back side, it's also like, "Then, how do I use that opportunity without being a selfish user, and I'm just using someone else for their audience?" Right? Melissa Webb: Yes, yes. Shane Sams: It's like, "How do I overcome the insecurity? How do I deliver value for the audience? Then how do I ..." Selfishly is not the right word but I'm going to use it, just because it's close enough. Basically, "Pitch my thing at the end." Does that make sense? Melissa Webb: Yes, yes. That's exactly where I am. Because by nature, I'm a giver. Like I can be almost too generous. It's so funny, in our Mastermind group, Corey is constantly saying, "Melissa, you're not charging enough. Melissa, you're in this to make money." I'm like, "Okay, okay. Well, let me just make a straight tutorial." Shane Sams: Right. Jocelyn Sams: Exactly, yeah. A lot of people have that situation. We live in a culture where people think, "Oh, well, all information is free online." Well, I mean, that is true to an extent but- Shane Sams: It's not curated correctly. It's not organized. Jocelyn Sams: Exactly. You are delivering value to people and so there has to be some type of value exchange. Shane Sams: Always remember this, okay? Melissa Webb: Okay. Shane Sams: No one succeeds alone. The people ... The big online viewers that make it look like it's all about them. I don't know, like the Gary Vs and the Tony Robbins. It looks like it's all about them, but none of them succeeded without some kind of reciprocal relationship helping them all feed into this loop that keeps everybody kind of moving forward. Like you can't ... That person can't grow their podcast without great people on their podcast, right? Melissa Webb: True, true. Shane Sams: You can't grow and go into new territory without someone introducing you to other people. Correct? Melissa Webb: Correct. Shane Sams: Just by going on their podcast, you are already helping them because it is really hard to carry solo shows. It's really hard to be the only person every day talking by yourself. Like even people that look like they do that, that have their own show where it's just them and they're just talking, they've got a team behind them doing research, helping them write the script. It's not just one person alone and they're growing forever. Does that make sense? Melissa Webb: Absolutely. Shane Sams: That's how you've got to approach first asking to be on other people's platforms is, hey look, this person is more than likely looking for really interesting, really helpful people to come on their show. They're looking for people that want to help their audience, because that makes them look good, and it is a status thing. It is an ego thing. It is a, "Hey, I can't do this alone. I need guests." Right? Melissa Webb: Right. Shane Sams: One reason that we do our podcast the way we do it is because after about 40 solo shows in the very beginning of our podcast, we realized that we would not be able to do this forever. Like we could not just come up with topics and write scripts and do it just me and Jocelyn all the same ... There was no way that's how this podcast was going to work. Shane Sams: At the same time, we didn't really want to bring on like expert guests and just rehash the same podcast that everybody else is doing. We thought, "Hey, people ask us great questions in our Flip Your Life stuff. Our coaching clients, our members ask great questions. Why would we not just have them on, let them ask their question, and we can talk, and it's going to help them too?" Shane Sams: You coming on our podcast helps us because we don't have to sit for six hours and script a podcast. We just get to tell our stories and talk about our relationship and then help you move forward. We need you to help us create good content. Melissa Webb: That's a great point of view. Yeah. Shane Sams: You're helping the podcast as much as they're helping you, basically. Jocelyn Sams: Exactly. Melissa Webb: Okay. Jocelyn Sams: Like as long as you're not approaching it from a selfish point of view, just go to them and say, "Hey, I have some really cool content, and I can help people teach their children at home how to write better." Shane Sams: Yeah. Melissa Webb: Okay. Jocelyn Sams: I feel like you're already in that frame of mind in that you want to give to people, so just take that and run with it. Jocelyn Sams: I just encourage you to look at other people in your space. What podcasts have they been on? That's a good place to start looking and say, "Hey, this person teaches home school writing, and they've been on podcasts x, y and z, so I'm going to go and say, 'Hey, I do something similar to this person.'" Or maybe have them introduce you, if it's someone you know. Shane Sams: Being strategic is not being selfish. Like that, people confuse that. They get really confused and like, "Well, if I'm ... This is all about me and I'm being so strategic. I've picked, I've identified these hundred targets, these podcasts that I'm going to reach out to because I know they've got home school families listening, and it's going to put me in front of the right people." No, like that's the reciprocal, working together agreement. Shane Sams: That podcast introduces you to the home school people who get value from you and really appreciate the podcast host that introduced them to you, so they come back and listen to the next episode to find more help, right? Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: Everyone wins in that feedback loop, every single person. The listener wins, because they get the information they need to solve their problem. The podcast host wins, because they created good value for their audience and they introduced them to the right person. Then you win, because you get to go and put your stuff in front of people who pay you so that you can not have to go do another job and can keep creating resources for them. Shane Sams: Then that person comes back to listen to that person's podcast again next week, where they introduce them to a new person, which provides values, which helps them solve problems, which makes them come back and listen again. Being strategic is not being selfish. It's the way that we all help each other. Like society needs that, we have to do that or it just doesn't work. Melissa Webb: I love that. Shane Sams: Go out and ... You almost owe it to the podcast person to ask them to be on their show. Right? Melissa Webb: That's fantastic. Yes. Shane Sams: I think where people get confused is it's like the podcast host ... Well, a hundred people ask them to be on, they only have 10. Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: That's not because they don't care about what you have to say. It's because they can only record 10 episodes a quarter. Like there's a limit in time, that's why you strategically and tactically have to go out and ask 50 people to be on their podcast to get on 15 of them. Right? Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: It's not because you're being rejected. That's just the limitation of time. We can't have every single person on our podcast from the community. We can only have 52 people a year on this podcast. Jocelyn Sams: Well, and then that's where you have to start getting into systems. Like our system is we look for people with success stories or people that we know in-person, people that we've talked to on coaching calls. We look for those types of people because we know that they'll make a good guest because they're actually doing what it takes to get to the next level. Shane Sams: Yeah. Jocelyn Sams: They probably have those types of systems too, but just look for one, look for podcasts or opportunities where you can provide value and then you can get value in return. That's the way the world works. There are going to be a lot of people who don't take you up on your offer, and that's fine. Jocelyn Sams: Like there are thousands of people who listen to our podcasts every week who have never paid us a dime, and that's totally fine. Like that's just the way that it works. Then there are some people who are going to find enough value in what you do to want to give you some type of monetary exchange, and that's fine too. Shane Sams: There's other kinds of value too. Like there's other ... Like we don't, like not everyone will pay you, right? Some people will listen to you and some people will use your stuff, which might give you a testimonial. Some people might ... Shane Sams: I did a think recently where I wanted to speak at an event. I emailed our list and I just asked them to go nominate me to speak. Like, "Hey, you may not be in the community. You may not buy anything from us, but if you enjoy our podcast and you want some reciprocity, would you please go nominate me for this, or go do it?" Like, "I give you free content every week, you go do this for me." Like that's just the way the world works. Shane Sams: I think the world makes us feel like we're not supposed to ask for anything, because like bosses don't want people to ask for raises. It's like, "Don't ask for what you want. Don't be an advocate for yourself. Don't do that." Like that's what the world tells us to do, but that's not really how we should do it, because that doesn't really help in any way. Shane Sams: Some people are ... There's going to be some podcasters that are like, "Hey, I have a $500 fee for my podcast." That's the reciprocity they want. Maybe you're like, "Wow. They have 100,000 home school listeners. Maybe that's worth $500." Right? Melissa Webb: Right. Shane Sams: It's not just an exchange of information pool. That's called a negotiation. That's what they value. Maybe you should pay it. You know what I'm saying? Melissa Webb: Right, right. Shane Sams: There's lots of different ways that people build in these relationships. You just have to figure out, strategically, what works best for you, and don't feel selfish about. Like why would you not want to be on their podcast? Does that make sense? Melissa Webb: It's such a great mind shift for me, when you shared it in that perspective. That's fantastic. Shane Sams: Yeah. Don't feel like you're bragging about yourself or that you're like, "Oh, I don't want to ... What do I have to offer them?" Well, an hour of your time. You don't get that hour back, so that's really valuable. Okay? Melissa Webb: Right. Shane Sams: Now, on the podcast, what you have to do is your part is deliver the value, right? Melissa Webb: Right. Shane Sams: Deliver the value and then don't be afraid to tell people their next steps. So many people want to get their pitch right when they go on the show. Like at the end, "I got to spin everything back to my pitch. I got to spin everything back to my opt-in. I got to spin everything back to make sure that everybody who listens goes to my site and give me an email," but that's really, that's not how you do that. Shane Sams: You deliver value for that person and help them. That's what takes people to want to go to the next step, and they'll like and trust you, and all that good stuff. Melissa Webb: Well, and that's true from a consumer point of view as well. You've had amazing people on your podcasts, and I've never gone to their site because they pitched it. I've always gone because I think it's valuable. Melissa Webb: Like that would be the reason why I would go somewhere else, so that's something that I certainly want to keep in mind as I do the same thing. Like I'll offer the value that makes somebody want to go there. Jocelyn Sams: Exactly. The people who are most willing to buy from you, they will find you whether you give a URL or you don't. Shane Sams: That's true. If you'll go back and listen to almost any podcast we've ever done anywhere else, we never, almost never talk about ... Like spin things back to what we're selling or anything. We don't even say ... Like sometimes I've ... When was ... Shane Sams: I was on Michael O'Neal's podcast. I did an interview on that for a second time. I forgot to even tell our URL or our anything at the end. Like we just had a conversation for like 45 minutes, and we talked. I totally forget. Shane Sams: I got of the call, I looked over at Jocelyn, I went, "Did I tell anybody about our website or anything?" We're like, "Nah. Forgot it." People wrote us and said, "I heard you on this specific episode and I sought you out." If you're delivering enough value, that will happen automatically. It's not about your technique or, "How do I strategically, tactically get the most opt-ins off of this?" It's like be yourself, tell your story, deliver value and people will come. They just will. Melissa Webb: I love it. Shane Sams: Yeah, and you got to convince them to join your email list, when they get to your website, right? Melissa Webb: Got to have a call to action. Shane Sams: Yeah. Actually go out and say ... I'll tell you a different way to even find the podcast. Go find the 50 home school podcasts that you genuinely think you can help the most. Don't look at their audience size, don't look at their social media following, don't do any of that. Right? Melissa Webb: Okay. Shane Sams: One thing we do do is when we're trying to go on an interview ... We do try to find people that have over 50 episodes because we know that person's in it for the long-run, because 90% of all podcasts stop at episode 30. Okay? Melissa Webb: Wow. Yes. Shane Sams: Look for people who have actually been in it, and are in it, and are staying in it, because you don't want to just jump on anything that might not be there in a year. Jocelyn Sams: One that comes out regularly. I mean, you don't want one that comes out once a week and then like- Shane Sams: Last episode's been out six months ago, or anything like that. Jocelyn Sams: Yeah. Shane Sams: Yeah. Yeah, so make sure people are consistently creating content before you go on it. Then, look for the ones you think you can help the most. Don't just look for the biggest ones. Okay? Melissa Webb: Love it. Shane Sams: Yeah. That will make it ... It'll make it a whole lot easier to pitch your stuff. Jocelyn Sams: It'll just make it feel better for you. Like that you're really in it for the right reasons. Melissa Webb: It will. 100%. Jocelyn Sams: All right, we have had a lot of fun talking today. We've had some crazy stories. This has been a very unusual episode, but I hope it's been fun. Shane Sams: Very interesting. Yeah, it's hilarious. Jocelyn Sams: We always ask people before we finish the episode, what is one thing that you plan to work on in the next 24 hours or so based on what we talked about here today? Melissa Webb: Well, without a doubt, we're going to end this call and I am going to go find those 50 home schooling podcasts that have had at least 50 episodes themselves, and ones that I really, truly believe that I can bring value to their audience. Shane Sams: I think that is a tremendous goal. Based on your track record, Melissa, I have no doubt that you will go out and make that happen today. You may just be calling us in a week going, "Hey, guys. I'm on 10 podcasts. It's going to be amazing. I'm going to help a lot of people." That is awesome. Shane Sams: Melissa, we appreciate you for coming on the show. We know how hard it is to go on a podcast and share your story and be transparent. We also know how important that is for all of our listeners out there to hear not just us, not just experts, but just other real people who are out there making this thing happen. Shane Sams: I have no doubt that your story is going to inspire a lot of people out there in our audience. We have another inspirational thing to share with you. Because Melissa is going to share our bible verse today. Jocelyn and I draw a lot of our inspiration from the bible for our life and our business. We know that a lot of people in our audience do as well. What verse will you be sharing with us today? Melissa Webb: I'm going to be sharing Psalm 118:24. I have to say this, before sharing it, that it's like such a blessing that we are given the ability to have our own thoughts. We're not puppets, that we are allowed to believe what we choose to believe. I just think that's one of God's greatest gifts. Why not choose those positive thoughts? Melissa Webb: For years, I have just made it a very intentional first thing that I think as I'm waking up, as my eyes are opening. I just claim this verse every single morning. "Today is the day the Lord has made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it." Shane Sams: Love it. Jocelyn Sams: Love it. Shane Sams: Absolutely love it. I actually, when I'm feeling bad ... It's funny. We all grab onto different verses, but I can't tell you how many times when I'm in a bad mood, that's the verse I always fall back to. Melissa Webb: It's an awesome one. Shane Sams: Just to be grateful. Just to be grateful that we're alive and things could always be worse. Let's be realistic, right? Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: Man, today is the day. Rejoice. That is an awesome verse. Listen, Melissa, thank you so much. Melissa Webb: Thank you. Shane Sams: Cannot wait to hear you on all those other podcasts and to share this with our audience out there as well. Jocelyn Sams: Yeah, and I can't wait to see this success story. Definitely come back and let us know how it goes. Melissa Webb: Thank you. Shane Sams: All right, guys. That was another great episode of The Flipped Lifestyle Podcast. Another amazing conversation with a real life Flip Your Life community member. Maybe you're out there right now and you feel alone. Maybe you're looking for that forum, that community, that group, that Mastermind, just like Melissa was and you need some help putting that together. We would love to help you do that inside of the Flip Your Life community. Shane Sams: You can join the Flip Your Life community right now for free over at FlippedLifestyle.com/free. That's F-L-I-P-P-E-D Lifestyle.com/F-R-E-E. We would love for you to start your Flip Your Life journey today, and maybe someday we can share your success story as well right here on the podcast. That's FlippedLifesyle.com/free. We cannot wait to meet you and talk to you inside. Shane Sams: All right, guys. That is all the time that we have for today. Until next time, get out there and take action, do whatever it takes to Flip Your Life. We'll see you then. Jocelyn Sams: Bye. Melissa Webb: When you guys have talked about numbers, like I used to think I needed like 10,000 people to find me. Shane Sams: No. Melissa Webb: Then you guys one time were talking about like, "Do you guys realize, you really don't need that many people?" If I had 250 people ... Because I don't want to be huge. I like the community piece. Shane Sams: Yup. Melissa Webb: If I had 250 people paying me $100 a month, yeah, so much for teaching. Shane Sams: Exactly. Jocelyn Sams: Exactly. Melissa Webb: I never made that much in teaching. Shane Sams: That is an amazing statement. I love hearing people say that. "If I just had x people ..." Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: ... "Paying $5 a month, I could put my child ..." Jocelyn Sams: It's such an eyeopening thing. Like people, when they finally realize that, I mean, there are like seven to eight billion people on the earth. Like you don't need that many of them. Shane Sams: That was the biggest epiphany. That's what really, I think, is the formula that really led to our success is us in the car one day, and me looking over and just saying, "We only make like $5,000 a month." Like, "What if we had a 100 human beings send us $50?" Like, "That literally would be as much as we're making now killing ourselves at work," right? Melissa Webb: Right. Shane Sams: That's the formula. How much do you want to make? How many people times what dollar amount makes that happen? What value can you provide to earn that money? Melissa Webb: Yes. Shane Sams: If you can figure that out, you win. Like you're going to succeed and it's going to happen. Links and resources mentioned on today's show: Melissa's Website Flip Your Life LIVE 2019 Tickets & Registration Information Flip Your Life community 30-day trial Enjoy the podcast; we hope it inspires you to explore what's possible for your family! Get your FREE 30-DAY Membership in the Flip Your Life Community NOW! – https://flippedlifestyle.com/free

On this weeks episode we have Big John, the VP of Hype. We talk about Hollyweird and all that craziness, Raymaker, and Onnit.