The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker

Last of my trips back into The Shift archives is this conversation with Clover Stroud. Since this conversation, Clover has written another memoir, The Giant on the Skyline about our relationship with home (borne in part out of moving her family from her home in Oxfordshire to Washington DC where her partner's job is based). Since then A LOT has changed. She has also launched an excellent substack, On The Way Life Feels. The original show notes: It takes courage to lay yourself bare on the page the way today's guest does. Journalist Clover Stroud has written three memoirs - The Wild Other, My Wild and Sleepless Nights and, now, The Red of My Blood. Each more visceral, more exposing, than the last. But then Clover has lived no ordinary life (whatever that is). Hers features adventure, divorce, trauma, lots of sex, depression and five kids aged between 21 and 5. But before that, when Clover was 16, her mother suffered a catastrophic fall from a horse which left her permanently brain damaged. A state in which she remained until her death 22 years later. Then, two years ago her sister Nell Gifford, to whom Clover was exceptionally close, died of breast cancer, aged 46.  The darkness that descended in the wake of Nell's death informed The Red of My Blood - an emotional read about living with and learning from grief. Clover joins me from her bedroom in Oxfordshire (excellent wallpaper!) to talk - extremely candidly, so please brace yourself if you're feeling vulnerable - about grief and trauma, bearing the unbearable and how, out of loss, she's finding a new person to be. But It's not all sadness. We also discussed midlife sex, sobriety, looking forward to menopause and why we're bloody lucky to be middle-aged. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including The Giant on the Skyline and The Red of My Blood by Clover Stroud as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This conversation with legendary musician Tracey Thorn from one of The Shift's very early seasons is one of my very favourites. Back then covid was still a thing and these chats on zoom with incredible women were my life rafts. Anyway, we're revisiting Tracey because by the time you listen to this episode, Everything But The Girl will have very tentatively put their toe back on the stage at a couple of very small gigs in London. I'm not getting my hopes up too much (as I know Tracey doesn't loooove live performing, however, Tracey if you happen to read this, I know there are thousands and thousands of fans hungry for a tour...) The orginal show notes: Like many 80s kids, I grew up with today's guest. Tracey Thorn started early, forming The Marine Girls (once described as looking like they would “break your arm before they'd let you break their hearts”), while still at school, and Everything But The Girl, with her musical and life partner Ben Watt, whilst at university. Since then she's released three solo albums, three critically acclaimed memoirs - and had three children.  Her fourth book - My Rock'n'Roll Friend - about her 37 year on-off friendship with Lindy Morrison (drummer of Australian band The Go-Betweens) is my favourite yet. Tracey talks success, power, the “constant slog” of making women's voices heard and why equality is a numbers game. She also tells us why menopause made her feel like she'd gone mad, the painful-but-liberating process of ageing and what to do about your statement hair going grey (asking for a friend!). * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including My Rock'n'roll Friend by Tracey Thorn and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Back in the mists of time, Maggie O'Farrell was one of my very first guests on The Shift. So, as she celebrates the 25th anniversary of the publication of her very first novel, After You'd Gone and we wait with bated breath for the movie of her smash hit bestseller Hamnet (starring Jessie Buckley and Paul Mescal, directed by Oscar-winning director of Nomadland, Chloe Zhao, and co-written by Maggie and Chloe), I thought now was a good time to revisit our conversation from back in 2020. Since then Maggie has of course written the bestselling The Marriage Portrait and gone on to sell hundreds of thousands of copies of Hamnet. Here are the original show notes: This week's guest is the award-winning novelist, Maggie O'Farrell. The author of eight novels, most recently the stunning Women's Prize winner, Hamnet, and one of my favourite memoirs of all time, I Am, I Am, I am. And now she's written a children's book, the absolutely gorgeous Where Snow Angels Go, which is a banker for a Christmas Day teatime animation a la The Snowman if ever I saw one.  While Maggie noses through my bookcase and plays with Sausage the (tail-less) cat, we talk being a social media refusenik, giving voice to women's stories, saying good riddance to the male gaze, why she never thought she was the marrying kind. Oh, and why she still secretly fears someone might take her Women's Prize away! Frankly, if Maggie O'Farrell has imposter syndrome, what hope is there for the rest of us? * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Hamnet and The Marriage Portrait by Maggie O'Farrell and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As we put the finishing touches to the Spring season of The Shift, I thought we'd raid the archives for a few of my favourite episodes. First up, "the other" Maggie Smith (as she says she will always be), who I first spoke to when her memoir, You Could Make This Place Beautiful was just creeping into the world. Little did we know back then that it would be the leading wave in a tsunami of divorce memoirs written by midlife women. Also look out for Maggie's new book, Dear Writer, a collection of "pep talks and practical advice for the creative life". Here are the original show notes: Like most of the rest of the world, I first discovered today's guest Maggie Smith (no, not the legendary British actress, the American poet) when her poem, Good Bones went viral on social media thrusting her into the news on both sides of the Atlantic, featured on primetime TV and was read at an event by Meryl Streep.  It's the kind of exposure people dream of, but in Maggie's own words “my marriage was never the same after that”. And I know that sentiment is something that will resonate with so many of you. Maggie's new book, her debut memoir, You Could Make This Place Beautiful is about the collapse of that marriage, but it's also about the start of something new, how in losing their shared history and knowledge of the future, she began to build a new story - her own.  Maggie joined me from Ohio to talk about putting herself back together after sudden success destroyed her marriage, being a service provider in your own home, how she got herself back after years of bargaining herself away and why we keep having the same conversation about women and ambition. We also compared our Strong First Daughter Energy and she introduced me to the concept of an emotional alchemist. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including You Can Make This Place Beautiful and Dear Writer and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My final guest of this season is the British TV legend, Lorraine Kelly. You know, Lorraine off the telly!  Her show, Lorraine, which airs every weekday morning, revolutionised Daytime Telly, she's now been doing it for an astonishing 40 years. She took so called soft telly and turned it into a must take notice of for politicians and people who thought they were too good to watch telly during the day. She has won a Royal Television Society Award, a scottish BAFTA, and last year she was awarded a Lifetime achievement by BAFTA.  Now 65 the bloody over-achiever has only gone and written a bestseller, The Island Swimmer, set on Orkney - a place close to her heart - it's a family mystery about a woman, Evie, who reluctantly returns home after a long time away. It's as reassuring, captivating and satisfying as its author. I went to Lorraine's old Dundee stomping ground to share a cuppa and talk about life the universe and absolutely blimmin everything. We chatted mums who keep you in your place, toxic people in telly, getting the sack on maternity leave, why she had to be interviewed about menopause on her show because no-one else would, the sheer joy of being a granny and why she's way too chicken to have Botox. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including The Island Swimmer by Lorraine Kelly and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the award winning author, screenwriter and poet Jenni Fagan. Jenni has written four novels, several poetry collections and been named Scottish novelist of the year.  18 months ago Jenni and I met in a suitably spooky basement in Edinburgh's old town to discuss her incredible, harrowing memoir about growing up in care, Ootlin. An ootlin, according to Jenni, is ‘someone who creates their story without first seeking permission to do so'. And you'll soon see why that couldn't be more apt. Then, life happened - publication of the book was delayed and the interview never ran. Scroll forward to a couple of weeks ago when Ootlin was longlisted for the Women's Prize for Non-Fiction, and then won the Gordon Burn Prize. I decided to raid the archives and listen again. What I heard was a moving conversation about building a life when society dumped you on the scrapheap before birth. And then some.  As you'll hear Jenni and I spoke candidly about her childhood growing up in 29 different homes, how she somehow preserved the shining girl inside when life was only interested in snuffing her out, becoming Jenni with an i, the importance of cultural mothers, surfing her way through her 50s and her obsession with property renovation. CONTENT WARNING: there is some tough stuff in here including reference to sexual abuse and suicidal ideation. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Ootlin by Jenni Fagan and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is a Gen X legend and someone I've been a little bit obsessed with ever since I saw her star in the definitive (late) 80s movie, Say Anything. Ione Skye. There was a time when It seemed like if there was a hot young actor - John Cusack, River Phoenix, Keanu Reeves - she got to snog them on screen. (I know, shallow, much.) Ione has spent her life in the centre of the Venn diagram of film, music and celebrity. The daughter of 60s superstar Donovan, she famously dated Red Hot Chilli Peppers' Anthony Keidis finding herself both babysitter and breadwinner at just 16. She followed that with an ill-fated marriage to Beastie Boy Ad-Rock (Adam Horowitz). But there is so much more to Ione than all those male name drops. She has starred in some of the most significant movies of their generation. She has worked with the likes of Sofia Coppola, Chloe Sevigny, Lena Dunham and Madonna. She's written children's books, directed short films and is an accomplished painter. Not to mention podcaster. (She hosts the podcast Weirder Together with her partner, Ben Lee.) Oh, and I do just have to say that as a child she only lived next door to the iconic writer Eve Babitz! Anyway It all adds up to one fascinating tumultuous story. One she's addressed extremely candidly in her new memoir, Say Everything. See what she did there? Ione joined me from LA to talk about growing up in the 80s and 90s, being a nepo baby before nepo babies were a thing, having it all, losing it all and getting some of it back, what she's learnt from her Gen Z daughters and finally coming into herself in her 50s. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Say Everything by Ione Skye and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is a woman who knows better than most what it takes to adapt to life's big shifts. Dame Denise Lewis is one of the UK's best known athletes. She won gold in the heptathlon in Sydney Olympics in 2000 and bronze in Atlanta in 1996. She has won medals at the Commonwealth games, the European championships and World Championships. After retiring from athletics in her early 30s she built a successful career as a BBC sports commentator. Oh, And had four kids.  In 2023 she was made a Dame for her services to sport. Now 52, she is President of UK athletics and has written a book sharing everything she's learnt, aptly named Adaptability, a guide to surviving and thriving in a world of competing demands.  I met up with Denise to talk about self-reliance, independence and how growing up the only child of a single mum shaped her. The challenge of building a whole new identity in her 30s - and again in her 50s. Her secrets to adapting after a big life shift and How she learnt the vital skill of mansplaining. Plus menopause, ageing And why she loves being on the fifth floor of life. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including The Cancer Roadmap by Dr Liz O'Riordan and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is Dr Liz O'Riordan. Liz is what's apparently known in the trade as a double doctor; a breast cancer surgeon with a PhD in molecular oncology.  But more than that Liz is also both expert and patient.  She received her first breast cancer diagnosis aged 40. Her second aged 43 and her third, just two years ago, at the age of 48. Her experience of life on both sides of the cancer patient-doctor fence makes her uniquely qualified to talk about it. She now campaigns to inform and educate the breast cancer community and was recently presented with the ‘Future Dreams Humanitarian Award' for services to the breast cancer community. The co-author of The Complete Guide to Breast Cancer, Liz has now followed that up with A Cancer Roadmap. Not exactly bedtime reading, you might think, but I - who have been lucky enough to have only had a scare, but do have family and friends experiencing it - inhaled it. Not only is it fascinating but it's incredibly easy to digest and sure to become a staple for anyone who's remotely impacted. Liz joined me for a full and frank conversation about the impact of getting diagnosed with breast cancer at 40, crossing the doctor-patient divide, infertility, menopause, losing her hair and her identity and how she's adjusted to living life with cancer. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including The Cancer Roadmap by Dr Liz O'Riordan and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I first encountered today's guest back when I was editor of Red magazine and - for some crazy reason - went to an Oprah convention in Atlanta. I know right? I can literally hear everyone who knows me in real life laughing. So, Yes! I went to Atlanta to see Oprah but really I went to see someone else - a woman who Oprah described as “one of the smartest women I know”. Martha Beck. Martha is a Harvard trained sociologist and life coach who was Oprah's no-nonsense agony aunt on O magazine for almost two decades. she has not one not two but three degrees, as you do. And is the author of ten bestselling non-fiction books, including Steering by Starlight which you might have heard Lindsay Nicholson raving about on a recent episode of The Shift. (And it's not just me, Lindsay and oprah, Martha is beloved by such self help luminaries as Elizabeth Gilbert and Glennon Doyle.)  Her new book Beyond Anxiety could not be better timed! Martha joined me from her home in Pennsylvania to give us all a mahoosive pep talk on how to manage our anxiety. We also discussed surviving the 3am panic spiral, why she only got a handle on her own anxiety at 60, being a late blooming lesbian and what she's learnt from parenting at 20 and 60 - and frankly a whole lot more. Listen to Martha's podcast with Rowan Morgan Bewildered and her solo podcast The Gathering Room.   * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Beyond Anxiety by Martha Beck and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the novelist, journalist and critic Diana Evans. Diana is the award-winning author of four novels 26a, The Wonder, Ordinary People and A House for Alice. She has been shortlisted for countless awards including the Women's Prize and won the South Bank Sky Arts Award for Literature for Ordinary People. She has, as she puts it, been writing against invisibility her entire life.  Before all that she was a dancer, with the Brighton-based African and Caribbean troupe Mashango, and then a journalist (she was arts and music editor of Pride magazine). Some of her best work is now published as I Want To Talk To You, a collection of essays in which she examines the personal and the political, interviews icons and looks at the realities of ageing and thwarted expectation. Like many of you listening, Diana is also a woman caught in the middle aged sandwich of children and parents. She joined me from her home in south London to talk ageing, experience and expectation. We covered compulsive worrying, growing up in a house of seven women, the hazards of being a “doer”, the pain of turning 50 without her twin, how caring for a parent can be “bigger than childbirth” and why we no longer need an aesthetic licence in middle age.   * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including I Want To Talk To You by Diana Evans and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week's guest is the Emmy award-winning American journalist Kate Fagan. Kate started out playing college basketball before making the move into sports journalism. She worked for the American cable channel ESPN (for brits, that's THE sports channel in the US) and wrote the number 1 NYT bestseller, What Made Maddy Run.  Then, just before she turned 40 and at the top of her professional game, Kate took a hard left. She stepped away from the career that made her famous, moved to Charleston and married her wife Kathryn Budig. Now she's written a novel The Three Lives of Cate Kay that pushes all the buttons. A dissection of success and ambition, and the true cost of living a lie, it was Reese Witherspoon's first bookclub pick of the year.  While Kate was on the Edinburgh leg of her book tour, she came to hang out in my flat and ply Sausage the cat with Dreamies (no cash has changed hands but he's always open to a conversation!)  While she was here we discussed the moment she was bitten by the ambition bug (and how she's still struggling to shake it off), the lack of female sporting role models when she was a young athlete, coming out at 30 and The stories we tell ourself about what it means to be a successful human. We also chatted age dysmorphia, crossing the 40 threshold and the conversation she wishes she'd had with her mum. She also introduced me to the concept of TODs. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including The Three Lives of Cate Kay by Kate Fagan and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I was the very first person to interview Miranda July about All Fours this time last year. To say she was nervous about how it would be received was an understatement. "Will you have my back?" she asked me (and the rest of the female world) towards the end of our conversation. Yes, I said, yes we will. And how! Since then All Fours has taken the world by storm - women over 40 have a sex life, who knew?! So I've decided to replay this episode for everyone who's new to The Shift and new to midlife. ------ Every so often you get the chance to interview someone whose work has fascinated you for, well, forever. And today is one of those days.  Miranda July is an artist, performer, film maker and writer who has been doing it her own way since she was in her teens. She has made three films - The Future, Me and You and Everyone We Know and Kajillionaire, held countless exhibitions, written several books and won a bunch of awards. You get the picture. Now 50, Miranda has turned her attention to midlife with her first novel in a decade. All Fours is a painful, poignant, hilarious and extremely hot exploration of what happens when “a curious, creative, sexually active woman reaches the midpoint of her life, goes off the oestrogen cliff and starts to question her direction?” It is wholly unlike anything else I've read about this life stage. And is sure to change a few games. Miranda joined me to talk about her own trip off the oestrogen cliff, reimagining relationships as we get older, conscious co-parenting and moving into the house in the backyard. We also discussed the menopause whisper network, outing herself as “no longer young”, getting out of the anxiety cul de sac and why ageing is “unexpectedly wild”. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including All Fours by Miranda July and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Emily Sandford. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today's guest is someone I've wanted to get on The Shift for the longest time. You might know Ruby Wax as a successful comedian and presenter, one of the funniest women of her generation. Or you might know her as a mental health campaigner and best-selling author. One thing's for sure, she has been using humour to make the rest of us feel better for decades. Having suffered depression her whole life, Ruby had a breakdown after losing her job on the BBC in her 50s (hold that thought!). Determined not to “go down with the career ship” she took herself off to Oxford university where she got a masters degree in mindfulness based cognitive therapy, was subsequently awarded an OBE for services to mental health and has written several bestselling books about our brains - and hers.  Then, last year, 12 years after her last bout of depression, she discovered she wasn't actually as well as she thought she was… Cue the inspiration for a new book, and tour. Ruby and I met in an office overlooking the Thames the day after a big birthday (which we will not be talking about!!) to discuss why depression is the wrong word for mental illness and the journeys to find meaning that saw her end up on a journey to a 6 week stay in a mental clinic. We also talked about building a new emotional toolkit for the second half of your life, the secret to her 35 year marriage and why we need to stop talking ageing and start talking evolving. There's also hair dye, mindfulness, a Carrie Fisher love-in, jewellery and toe nails. It's all going on in this episode! Falling Upward by Richard Rohr, the book Ruby talks about in this episode, is available here. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including I'm Not As Well As I Thought I Was by Ruby Wax and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including transcripts of the podcast, please consider joining The Shift community. Find out more at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Emily Sandford. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the bestselling writer Dani Shapiro. Dani is best known for the memoirs that made her name. Startlingly honest works of self-investigation like Slow Motion, in which she examines the questionable decisions her younger self made (let's face it, whose younger self didn't?). And the book that catapulted her to the top of the bestseller lists, Inheritance.  In Inheritance, Dani explored the impact of taking a DNA test - just for fun! - in her mid 50s only to discover that her beloved dad was not actually her biological father. That book led to the top 10 podcast, Family Secrets featuring guests who have uncovered life altering secrets. It was unlocking those family secrets that enabled Dani to write her first novel in 15 years, Signal Fires, a bestseller since the day it was published in the states last year and praised by, my fave Jamie Lee Curtis, amongst others. It looks at what happens when one tragic mistake changes a whole family's lives. Dani joined me from the East coast of America to discuss how it feels to discover that you are your family's secret, her allergy to Empty Nest Syndrome and why there should be a handbook for middle age. We talked about coming into your full potential at 60, "losing your looks" when you've been told they're your currency and learning to count ordinary blessings. Listen to Family Secrets here. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Signal Fires by Dani Shapiro and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Emily Sandford. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today I'm delighted to welcome back one of The Shift's very first guests, journalist and mental health campaigner Bryony Gordon. Bryony has been a columnist on the Telegraph for over 20 years and for ten of those she has been writing candidly about her own experiences of addiction and mental illness. She is the best selling author of Mad Girl and The Wrong Knickers and in 2016 she founded Mental Health Mates a global peer support network that encourages people with mental health issues to connect, for which she has won several awards. She also, FWIW, ran the London marathon in her knickers.  Three years after her first visit to The Shift, Bryony is back - older, wiser (yes really) - and with a new book, the pertinently titled, Mad Woman, which discusses her struggles with burnout, binge eating and, yep, you guessed it, fluctuating hormones. Bryony joined me from bed in south London to talk about maintaining a public facade when you're privately falling apart, finally learning to feed herself properly at 43, discovering all the women in her family went into menopause in their early 40s, why she's done with feeling like she's the problem and how Davina McCall saved her life! If you'd like to sponsor Bryony's Big Challenge, you can find out more here. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Mad Woman by Bryony Gordon and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today's guest is the anti-guru behind the massive No F*cks Given franchise, Sarah Knight. What started life with the Marie Kondo pastiche, The Life Changing Magic of Not Giving A F*ck, now comprises 7 guides and three journals which have sold three million copies and a TED talk that's notched up ten million views.  But Sarah wasn't always the queen of giving zero f*cks. Scroll back to her mid-30s and you'd have found her having a panic attack in the Manhattan office where she worked. So started ten years of anxiety and depression, a massive leap into the freelance unknown (which let's face it, worked out pretty well!) and a 1500 mile geographical from Brooklyn to the Caribbean, where she now lives. Sarah joined me from her home in the Dominican Republic (grrrr) to talk about her new book, Grow The F*ck Up, how sometimes it takes getting what you want to realise you don't want it, Why we often need permission to make a change and having the courage to recognise you really don't have enough left in the tank. Sarah also told me how she learnt to give fewer but better fucks, what to do if you're married to a “big f*cking baby”, why selfish shouldn't be a four letter word and she gives us a masterclass in learning to say no. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Grow The F*ck Up by Sarah Knight and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Emily Sandford. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dr Gladys McGarey died, aged 103, in September of this year, so I wanted to honour her by making her episode the last to go out on the last day of the year. Rest In Power Gladys. ---- A few months ago I read an article that took my breath away. The author was 102 years old and in it she wrote candidly about losing her partner in life and work after 46 years. Not because he passed away, but because he handed her divorce papers! That would have floored most of us, but despite being sideswiped, Dr Gladys McGarey, picked herself up, started a new medical practice with her daughter before becoming a speaker, author and all-round inspiration. All this at the age of 70. Since then Dr Gladys, who is known as the mother of holistic medicine, has received countless awards including the Humanities Award for Outstanding Service to Mankind.  At 85 she travelled to Afghanistan to teach rural women safer birthing practices. At her 90th birthday party she jumped out of her birthday cake. At 102 she became the proud owner of an adult tricycle. Who is this woman? And how does she do it? I HAD to know. Now on the cusp of 103, Dr Gladys joined me from her home in Arizona to tell me her secrets to health and happiness. We discussed ageing into health, femifesting (as opposed to manifesting), how divorce was the remaking of her, finding her voice at 93 and why we should all spend our energy wildly! I know this isn't the first time I've said I found my old bird role model, but seriously. Dr Gladys is IT. If you loved this episode you might also like my conversations with Hilma Wolitzer and Isabel Allende * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including The Well-Lived Life by Dr Gladys McGarey and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For this bonus episode of The Shift, I'm delighted to welcome a very special guest: the award-winning author of ten bestselling novels, Barbara Kingsolver.  Every so often, a book comes along that you want to press into the hands of everyone you meet. For me, Demon Copperhead, is one of those books. A reimagining of the Dickens classic, David Copperfield, translated to the Appalachian mountains in the midst of the opioid crisis that has gripped the area. It's funny, it's furious and its hero Demon is a character you will never ever forget.  I'm not the only one who thinks so. Earlier this year Barbara was awarded a Pulitzer Prize and now she's become the first person ever to win the Women's Prize for Fiction twice (she won over a decade ago for her novel, The Lacuna). A couple of weeks ago, Barbara foolishly let me and my little mic into her Edinburgh hotel room to tell me how growing up weird, bookish and poor shaped her and how she discovered she was a so-called hillbilly. We also discussed being an introvert in an extrovert world, finding love second time around, not winning the jackpot in the mothering department and why life gets better with every decade – and at 68 and the top of her game, she's living proof. She also shares her killer packing tips and, I have to say, if you ever wanted to do a three week holiday with just a carry-on, Barbara is your woman! * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including transcripts of the podcast, please consider joining The Shift community. Find out more at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Emily Sandford. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We've all had those moments in our lives when everything feels… darker, colder, a little (or a lot) less hopeful. Those emotional winters were perfectly encapsulated by today's guest, Katherine May in her transatlantic bestseller, Wintering, the power of rest and retreat in difficult times. Her new book is another soothing antidote for the way we live now, Enchantment, Reawakening wonder in an exhausted age. I don't know if it's the aftermath of the pandemic, our always on culture, or just… life, but this spoke to me in exactly the way Wintering did. So, that's a thumbs up from me. Katherine joined me from her home by her beloved seaside (hence the seagulls!) to talk about her midlife autism diagnosis, why she believes we're living through the burnout decade and how to wrest back control of our lives from our work. She told me about entering perimenopause at 29 but still being absolutely livid in her mid-40s, how she's fully over “white male gurus” and why she wants to open up the conversation about meaning. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Enchantment by Katherine May and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Emily Sandford. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you were a teenager in the late 80s you only have to hear the name Neneh Cherry to conjure the image of Neneh, seven months pregnant, on the Top of the Pops stage performing her hit Buffalo Stance. She was the epitome of cool. She made teenage girls everywhere believe that anything was possible. Now, almost 40 years later, the award-winning singer, songwriter, rapper, producer, mother of three, stepmother of one, grandmother of four, has lived - and continues to live - the most incredible life. She has released six critically acclaimed albums, won two Brits and been nominated for a Grammy.  And now she has written a memoir that takes us from her peripatetic childhood moving between Sweden and New York with her mother Swedish artist Moki Karlsson and her step-dad jazz trumpeter Don Cherry to the present day. It quite honestly blew me away. A Thousand Threads takes those strands and weaves them into a story of creativity and collaboration, love and loss, motherhood and daughterhood, and above all what it means to be a woman. I inhaled it. (And if you're in the market I highly recommend having Neneh read it to you on audible.) Neneh and I got on zoom to talk about home, family, losing her mother Moki at just 66 and losing herself to grief and menopause, finding pleasure in the little things, being a gran, staying creative forever and so so much more. TBH teenage Sam is beside herself right now. I hope you love this as much as I loved making it. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including A THOUSAND THREADS BY NENEH CHERRY and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the fashion designer Bella Freud. Bella launched her eponymous label in 1990. Over thirty years later it remains resolutely independent, one of the very few that hasn't been subsumed by a fashion conglomerate.  Bella's clothes are for wearing and have become a byword for women who want to be glamorous but not girly with a bit of added wit. Her iconic word jumpers are one of the most covetable individual fashion items bar none. (As her instant-sell out collaboration with M&S proved.) Bella has always played with her heritage (her father, the artist Lucian Freud designed her famous dog logo and great-grandfather was Sigmund Freud, widely credited as the inventor of psycho analysis) and now she's launched a podcast - Fashion Neurosis with Bella Freud - where she literally puts celebrities on the couch to analyse their relationship with style. Eric Cantona, Zadie Smith and even Kate Moss have succumbed and, I have to say, it's an eye-opener. I met Bella at home in North West London to talk about growing up outside convention and how she finally shook off her childhood coping mechanisms. We discussed the “wonderful feeling of progress” that's come with ageing, what we can gain from unravelling life's knots and the impact of losing both of her parents in one week. Bella also told me how her body image shaped her designs and how she's learnt to appreciate her body as she's aged. Fashion is a magic carpet, she says, and she's the living proof. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is a woman who is credited with putting poetry back on the map, Donna Ashworth…. Donna came to prominence in 2020, when a poem she wrote about lockdown was read in a viral video to raise money for the NHS. She subsequently self-published her first volume of poetry, To The Women, which sold over 100,000 copies. Unsurprisingly the publishing industry came a-calling. Now The UK's best selling poet, Donna has written eight books, including the bestsellers Wild Hope and I Wish I Knew and you'll find them on the bedside tables of millions of women. Her latest, Growing Brave, a collection of words to soothe fear and let more life in, feels once again, perfectly pitched for the times we're living through.  Donna joined me for what is probably the most emotionally intelligent conversation I've ever had here on The Shift. We talked about being dubbed “the difficult one” and how we grow into the labels we're given, how to win the self-worth battle, the secret to being well-boundaried, why she doesn't care for a “man-made” timeline and finding her calling in midlife. Also, I should warn you that Donna is incredibly generous and candid when it comes to talking about her experience of anorexia and how it feels to age with an eating disorder. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Growing Brave by Donna Ashworth and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is one incredible woman. Baroness Lola Young of Hornsey is an actress, academic, campaigner for social justice and a cross bench peer in the House of Lords. By anyone's standards she has achieved.  She studied at the New College of Speech and Drama and started her career as an actress in the 1970s and 80s, before becoming professor of Cultural Studies at Middlesex University. In 2001 she received an OBE and became an independent peer in the house of lords in 2004, where she has actively campaigned against modern slavery and unethical fashion, amongst other things.  But before all that, from the age of just 8 weeks old, Lola moved between foster care placements and children's homes. Then, at the age of 18, she was pushed off what she calls “the care cliff”. Now that childhood is the subject of Eight Weeks, her stunning memoir of a childhood in care and her journey to discovering her own story.  As she says herself, when people say “this is my friend Lola, she grew up in care, now she's in the house of lords” it misses out rather a lot of steps on the way. Lola joined me to tell me how it felt to start trying to weave together the scattered parts of herself in her 50s and how growing up in care turned her into an activist. We also discussed everyday racism, what it's really like being a Black woman in the House of Lords, her conflicted relationship with visibility and why somebody has to go first so it might as well be you.  * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Eight Weeks by Baroness Lola Young and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the forensic psychotherapist Dr Jennifer Cox. She trained at the Tavistock and now has an extensive practice specialising in treating women with undiagnosed anger. As part of this work she developed the Women are Mad approach to help women who can't afford therapy to “think below the surface” about where their rage might be coming from. Sounds like it might be useful? I thought so, too. Jen is also the co host of the Women Are Mad podcast and has written a book called Women Are Angry which is very much what it says on the tin.  Her mission? To help us identify our rage and let it the hell out. Productively. Of course. Jen joined me for a fascinating conversation about the nature of female rage and why she thinks we're seeing such a groundswell of fury now. We also discussed the impact of being a young carer, when and why we learn to “bitch”, why it's easier to be a worried person than an angry one and the moment the anger penny dropped for her. CW: I should warn you that there's passing discussion of suicidal ideation, eating disorders and depression Note: This was recorded before the November 5 election in the US. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Women are Angry by Jennifer Cox and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is Louise Doughty, the woman behind some of the knottiest thrillers to grace our bookshelves and TV screens in recent years. Her bestseller, Apple Tree Yard about a sensible middle aged woman who makes a very unsensible decision (involving sex in the house of commons!) sold over half a million copies and was turned into a smash hit BBC series starring Emily Watson. She was also the brains behind the breathtaking BBC drama Crossfire that starred Keeley Hawes.  Of course What you don't hear, is that Apple Tree Yard was Louise's 7th novel, catapulting her to “the big time” at the age of 50. Her latest book, A Bird In Winter, looks set to continue that trajectory. Think The 39 steps if the lead was an extremely resourceful 50something woman on the run. Louise joined me to talk about how her “overnight” success at 50” transformed her life (mainly she finally started a pension!) And why it's still considered controversial when middle aged women have sex! We also discussed surviving the menopause-puberty collision, the unrealised fury - and potential - of the middle aged woman and the power and importance of realising you're not for everyone. And that's fine. Note: apologies for the occasionally disrupted sound quality at the start of this episode. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including A Bird in Winter by Louise Doughty and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today's guest is a personal favourite. I first met Kate Weinberg (the bestselling author of The Truants) when I was stricken with long covid and a mutual friend put us in touch. “You need to talk to Kate,” she urged. “She'll be able to help. Kate was able to help - and did. Thanks in large part to her I went from feeling like my old, functioning life had gone forever, to regaining more than a semblance of normal. Whatever that is. Because Kate is not only one of the first people to experience and long covid, she is also an immensely kind and generous woman.  That experience - of living an illness that doctors dismissed as “all in her head” - led to her new novel, There's Nothing Wrong With Her - a comi-tragic story about mental health, the way women's illness is dismissed, living up to early midlife expectation and surviving modern life. It also stars a goldfish called Whitney Houston! I went to Kate's envy-inducing north London house to talk about running away fantasies, the impact of losing her mum at 3 and how she's spent her life assembling a patchwork of mothers, her career finally waking up in her 40s, going on HRT in her 30s, embracing crone energy and, yes, the impact of living with an illness you're told is “all in your head”. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including There's Nothing Wrong With her by Kate Weinberg and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the broadcaster Vanessa Feltz. Ever since the mid-90s, Vanessa has been a fixture on British TV and radio - and also, for better or worse, our front pages. She became known as the “British Oprah” and that applied not just to her consummate skills as a broadcaster and talent for saying the unsayable, but also what she describes as her “pernicious public cycle of yoyo dieting.” She cut her teeth on This Morning, interviewed stars on the Big Breakfast Bed and hosted her own hit show Vanessa, the first British US-style talk show. She's also presented BBC Radio 2's Early Breakfast Show and BBC London's Breakfast show and now hosts a Saturday show on LBC.  But like many women in the public eye, her professional achievements have often played second fiddle to media scrutiny of her private life. Vanessa joined me to talk about finally baring it all in the frank, funny, fearless autobiography she said she'd never write, Vanessa Bares All. We also discussed growing up with a chorus of critics and dealing with the toxic media attention paid to her weight. Plus divorce, being back in the dating game at 62, why she wishes she'd been able to take Ozempic, finally losing her inhibitions and why she'd really like a great big love. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Vanessa Bares All by Vanessa Feltz and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you sometimes worry you've left it too late to follow your heart, today's guest should give you hope. At 40, Jane Campbell got a divorce and took herself off to university where she trained as a group analyst. 40 years later, at the age of 80, she had her first short story was published, after she sent Cat Brushing to the London Review of Books on a whim. As a rule they don't publish fiction, but less than three weeks later, they did just that.  Cat Brushing became the title of her debut short story collection - a short, sharp collection about the inner life of older women that I've read over and over again. The New York Times compared her to Edna Obrien and Muriel Spark. No biggie. Now Jane's written a novel, Interpretations of Love which is, ultimately, about the things left unsaid and their lifelong implications. From her home in Oxfordshire, Jane told me why it's so important to her to put the loves, lusts and losses of old women centre stage. We also discussed the impact of being a war baby and growing up with the belief that men were surplus to requirements, finding herself, a new life and a job she loved at 40 - and doing it again at 80. The lure of the solitary life and how she learnt to stop asking permission in midlife - and has never looked back. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Cat Brushing and Interpretations of Love by Jane Campbell and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today knows a thing or two about being single, and she's hear to tell you that there's more than one way to live an emotionally fulfilling life.  Marianne Power is a journalist who made a perfectly decent living testing things so you didn't have to - mascara, spa retreats, you get the gist - until the decision to spend a year testing self help books changed her life in ways she'd never expected. The resulting book, Help me! Has since sold hundreds of thousands of copies, been translated into 25 languages and been optioned for TV. Clearly something about her funny, candid, vulnerable approach struck a chord. But as she turned 40, Marianne still had questions. Namely, why were all her friends merrily ticking boxes on the life to-do list and she wasn't… love eluded her, so she decided to try the same approach. In Love me! She looks at society's obsession with marriage, kids and domesticity and whether you can love and be loved without them. I met Marianne in London to talk about rewriting the stories we tell ourselves about love and sex and why there's more than one soulmate for everyone (and, no,) they don't have to be sexual. We also talked anxiety, growing up ginger, being childfree by choice, tantra and, the kicker, why sex is not a reward for being young and hot.  Find out more about Jan Day's tantra workshops at https://www.janday.com/ * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Love Me! by Marianne Power and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is author, endurance athlete and ex BBC breakfast presenter Louise Minchin. Louise is, of course, best known for her twenty year stint on BBC Breakfast's sofa but she has also been main news anchor on the BBC News, presented The One Show and participated in a host of reality TV shows including I'm a Celebrity get me out of here. Since leaving the sofa, she has chaired the Women's Prize for Fiction, honed her skills as an endurance athlete (she qualified for the Great Britain Age-Group Triathlon Team in 2015 for the World Triathlon Championships in Chicago, and completed the Norseman triathlon - she doesn't do things by halves!) and turned her hand to writing. Louise's latest book is a heartstopping thriller called Isolation Island, which takes ten celebrities and dumps them in a derelict monastery on a remote scottish island. Think I'm A Celebrity meets Traitors with a splash of Big Brother and you're halfway there! Louise joined me to talk about the importance of putting women of all ages centre stage and how she built a new career off the breakfast TV sofa. We also discussed how perimenopause robbed her of herself, the power of adventure, how she learnt to love her body for what it can do not how it looks and why she wants to encourage more women to take a risk in midlife. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Isolation Island by Louise Minchin and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today's guest is the American actress, writer and singer Moon Unit Zappa. Moon shot to fame in her early teens when her vocals featured on her father Frank Zappa's unlikely hit Valley Girl. Subsequently she has been an actor, singer, presenter and artist. I'm about a year older than her and I know I've pretty much been aware of her ever since But she was never quite able to step out of the shadow of her “music genius” father Frank and mother Gail. The eldest of four siblings, Moon says, she was basically an adult by the time she was 5. Now aged 57, Moon has written Earth to Moon, a funny, self-deprecating and candid memoir that attempts to bring perspective to a life lived in the glare of celebrity, creativity, genius and narcissism. It's just begging to be turned into a TV series. If you, like me, grew up with a reassuringly boring small town childhood, you might look at Moon's life with a pang envy. Moon is here to set you right! Moon joined me from her home in LA to talk about the lifelong impact of growing up in a household that revolves around a “genius” and with a mother who's the ultimate unreliable narrator. We also discussed eldest daughter syndrome, the nepo baby dilemma, how she learnt to make herself central to her own life, the curse of dating both versions of your parents and why she thinks hot flashes are hilarious.  * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Earth to Moon by Moon Unit Zappa and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is a woman who has truly come into her own in middle-age. A broadcaster, engineer, statistician and entrepreneur, at the age of 63 Carol Vorderman is now best known for fearlessly calling power to account.  Sick of the sleaze and corruption she saw emanating from our politicians she decided it was time to speak up.  And her million twitter followers and listeners to her LBC show listened. Why? Because she's one of us. An ordinary kid from a working class background, brought up by a single mum in North Wales. Carol is also a patron of Menopause Mandate, has been named one of the 25 most influential women by Vogue, and she's got an MBE. You get the picture.  Now she's written a book, Now What? A book about politics for people who think politics isn't for them. Carol joined me to talk candidly about menopause and gaining her voice at 60, The lifelong impact of being a free school meals kid, The importance of financial independence and Why she won't be cowed by bullies and trolls. She also gives us a useful lesson in how to spot a narcissist. Carol vorderman is living life without apology. And I'm here for it. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Now What? by Carol Vorderman and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is Bella Mackie. Until her mid-30s Bella was a journalist, then she wrote a book called Jog On and her trajectory changed - dramatically. Ostensibly a book about running, Jog On was actually a soul-baring account of Bella's battle with anxiety, OCD and depression and how, ultimately, running saved her. It was one of a wave of books that blended memoir with motivation and was a big and unexpected hit. Then, a couple of years ago she wrote the brilliantly titled How To Kill Your Family. TikTok fell on it. Cue 47 weeks in the top 10 and a Netflix series. Not jealous at all.  Now she's back with the equally twisted What A Way To Go. In which more highly unlikeable people get their comeuppance. Well, some of them. Truly Bella can come up with ways to kill a loved one you hadn't even dreamed of! Bella joined me to talk about being child-free and building your own roadmap to ageing without kids in the equation. We also discussed her childhood obsession with true crime, how there's not a top trumps of mental health and why she still has a long way to go to fight her way out of the good girl box. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including What A Way To Go by Bella Mackie and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the award-winning… well what is she? Writer? Content creator? Blogger? Influencer? Ruth Crilly is all of the above. She started her blog A Model Recommends in 2010 - before it was really a thing - and became one of the UK's first social media stars. She's got 500k followers on YouTube and instagram and unbelievably she's - gulp - over 40! I know. Ancient! And before all that, Ruth was a successful model and it's that experience that forms the basis of her first book How Not To Be A Supermodel. This isn't a grim story of abuse at the hands of a brutal industry, although it's no walk in the park. Instead, Ruth somehow manages to find humour in the endless humiliations and inhumanities models are subjected to - being not tall enough, not cool enough, not thin enough to make it to supermodel stardom. Ruth joined me to talk to about being reduced to your looks when looks were never your currency, why there are two Ruths in her life (and one of them has to go!), why she wishes she'd known how perfect she was when she was 20, the trouble with social media and why she's too lazy, too tight and too chicken to tweak! And while she's at it she flogs me a beauty gadget to lift my face! * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including How Not To Be A Supermodel by Ruth Crilly and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is the creator of the global bestseller and smash hit TV adaptation, The Discovery of Witches, Deborah Harkness. Now, I'm not sure if you know this about me, but I'm a bit obsessed with all things witchy, and I've been a devotee ever since the proof of the first book landed on my desk and I tumbled headlong into the world of Diana Bishop. Can you say, ob-sessed? But before all this Deborah was a scholar. A historian who teaches the history of science at the University of Southern California, she is an authority on alchemical manuscripts and for her doctorate researched the history of magic and science in Europe between 1500 and 1700. Sound familiar?  There's more, just a couple of years ago Deborah discovered she was descended from not one, but two of the Salem women. Deborah joined me to talk about the latest book in the All Souls series - The Black Bird Oracle - which takes us to Salem and the descendants of the witch trials. We discussed also her life changing cancer diagnosis, why women's pain is endlessly ignored, why she won't be blunting her sharp pointy edges for anyone and why she loves being the crone of dark academia.  * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including The Blackbird Oracle by Deborah Harkness and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today's guest is the queen of embracing the second chapter. Fearne Cotton started young. She became a children's TV presenter at 15, presented Top of The Pops at 19 and took over Jo Whiley's mid morning show on Radio One at just 27. But it's what she's achieved since turning her back on live radio and TV that's really remarkable. In 2018 she launched Happy Place podcast, which has since amassed over 50 million downloads and expanded into a festival, bookclub, app and publishing imprint. As an author herself Fearne has written several books including the Sunday Times bestsellers Happy and Bigger Than Us.  But when people talk about Fearne they still describe her first and foremost as a broadcaster - instead of what she is: a highly successful and intuitive businesswoman who has curated an entire career, business and brand around her personal passions. Now she's turned her hand to fiction, with Scripted, in which a chronic people pleaser learns how to say no. Frankly I can think of a few people (including yours truly) who could take a lesson or two… Fearne joined me to talk about how she finally found her balance in mid-life. We also discussed why being a step parent needs a rebrand, learning not to be a little bitch to yourself, respecting your energy levels as much as your bank balance. And why she love love love love loves being in her 40s. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Scripted by Fearne Cotton and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I have known today's guest for quite some time. Decades in fact. To begin with she didn't really know me, because she was close friends with my first ever boss. During the time I sat on the sidelines of Lindsay Nicholson's life, the unimaginable happened and her husband and then daughter both died of a rare form of leukaemia. Then she picked herself and her younger daughter, Hope, up from the ashes and rebuilt their lives. Already a successful editor she became editor of Good Housekeeping where she stayed for 18 years, winning countless awards. As if she hadn't had more than her fair share of shit already, Lindsay then was diagnosed with breast cancer. She has now been in remission for 17 years. Then I left magazines and our ways parted. But a couple of years later I started to hear rumours - her second marriage (to a man who, from the outside, looked like some kind of knight in shining Armani) had fallen apart, magazines were in trouble and the company we had both worked for dispensed with their experienced talented (for which read expensive) editors. Including her, their most senior and decorated. That would be more than enough. But that wasn't even the half of it. Now Lindsay has written a heart rending memoir, Perfect Bound about the car crash that triggered a crisis and losing it all for a second time. Her obsessive pursuit of perfection. And how she found it in herself to recover. Again.  CONTENT WARNING: Before we leap in, I have to be honest, this episode is A LOT; a lot of everything. And I do mean everything. A lot of joy, a lot of pain, (including suicidal ideation.) you name it Lindsay has been through it, so if you're feeling fragile proceed with caution and tissues. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Perfect Bound by Lindsay Nicholson and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If there's anything more daunting than interviewing a professional interviewer it's interviewing an award-winning professional interviewer. Today's guest Taffy Brodesser-Akner is a staff-writer on the New York Times and a legend amongst journalists who often find themselves on the monosyllabic side of a celebrity. (Her interview with Bradley Cooper refusing to be interviewed for is a masterclass.) Her debut novel Fleishman is in Trouble was a New York Times and Sunday Times bestseller and then, never having written a screenplay before, she adapted it into a hit miniseries, starring Claire Danes, for which she won an Emmy. I mean. Her new novel, Long Island Compromise, has just been bought by Apple TV and looks set to go the same way. It follows four decades in the life of a wealthy Jewish Long Island family whose patriarch is kidnapped in 1980. The fall out is the story. Wealth class privilege trauma BDSM and controlling mothers abound. I met Taffy in her publisher's office when she was visiting London to talk about her joy of turning 40 and realising the thing she'd been taught her whole life to be afraid of (middle age) was actually her ticket to freedom, the mystifying effect of money, the unlikely promise she made her mum and why her superpower is spotting a nose job. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Long Island Compromise by Taffy Brodesser-Akner and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I can't be cool about today's guest, so I'm not even going to try. Ever since I started The Shift I have had a Wishlist and high up on it from day one was Dame Zandra Rhodes. Yes, that Zandra Rhodes. There can only be one after all. For over 50 years, Zandra has been a leading figure in the British fashion industry, renowned for her prints and her use of colour. Over the years she has dressed everyone from Princesses Diana to Freddie Mercury, Diana Ross and Debbie Harry, and collaborated with everyone from M&S to Ikea. Zandra is nothing if not egalitarian. Now 83 (and in remission from the terminal cancer she was diagnosed with at the start of covid), she has no plans to stop any time soon, as evidenced by her new book Iconic, My Life in Fashion in 50 Objects, a whistle-stop tour through her incredible life hanging out with ossie clark, lunching with Truman Capote, making a lifelong friend of legendary vogue editor Diana Vreeland. Which is how I get to be on my way to Bermondsey to hang out at her fabulous flat to talk about her equally fabulous life. I know! Zandra and I sat down with a cuppa to discuss how a “boring little girl” became synonymous with big, bold, uncompromising style, her lifelong workaholism, living a child-free life, using clothes as armour and the rejection that was the making of her...  * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Iconic: My Life in Fashion in 50 Objects by Zandra Rhodes and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com. • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the last of our FROM THE ARCHIVES episodes, I'm revisiting one of the most important conversations I think I've had on this podcast (not to mention one of my favourites) - with Terri White, the brains behind the award-winning podcast, Finding Britain's Ghost Children, which explored why so many children are missing from Britain's class rooms. Earlier this year, the podcast took home Gold at the ARIAS (industry Oscars etc) as well as a host of other commendations... My guest this week has come a hell of a long way - from the Derbyshire village where she grew up, to London and the editor's seat of Empire magazine, by way of New York where she was one of Folio magazine's top women in American media. Ostensibly Terri White was living the 'single woman in Manhattan' dream.  But, uber-competent at work, she was clinging by a thread in her personal life, struggling with chronic depression, self-harming and self-medicating with alcohol and prescription pills. When she was admitted to a psychiatric ward it marked the beginning of a remarkable journey that she documents in her extraordinary memoir, Coming Undone. To say it's raw and unflinching would be a massive understatement. Brace yourself for some extreme honesty as Terri discusses her mental health struggles, being a working class woman in a middle class world, how becoming a mother affected her relationship with her own mother, curing herself of busy busy busy and why she would not go back to 25 if you paid her. Oh, and her extremely complicated relationship with her hair. TRIGGER WARNING: I must stress that if you're feeling vulnerable there is frank discussion of mental health, sexual abuse, self harm and suicidal ideation. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Coming Undone by Terri White and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me. * If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com • And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com • The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

There are plenty of famous women who we think we know all there is to know without ever having met them. Women we judge based on some random unsubstantiated headline, but there are few women that applies to quite so much as Katie Price.Katie has been in the public eye for thirty years. She started as the glamour model Jordan at just 17 years old and is now a bestselling author and businesswoman. She has published six autobiographies, 11 novels and two series of children's books, released her own lingerie, haircare, perfume and equestrian lines, starred in a host of reality programmes and won Celebrity Big Brother in 2015. She's been through divorces, bankruptcies, carjacking, raised five children and campaigned for her disabled son, Harvey. She has survived childhood abuse, addiction, depression and much more.But Katie Price is sick to the back teeth of other people's opinions of her. Which is why she's written her 7th autobiography. This Is Me. Because she's decided, at 46, that it's about bloody time she wrote her own narrative, instead of letting other people.Katie joined me from her new house (where the wifi hasn't been sorted out yet!) to talk about how her breakdown changed everything and the agony of revisiting the worst times in her life for the book. We also discussed ADHD, IVF, body dysmorphia, Botox and why, at 46, she's finally got the knowledge and experience to take back control.Listen to The Katie Price Show.* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including This Is Me by Katie Price and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm not sure there's anyone quite like Kate Mosse. The driving power behind the Women's Prize for Fiction which is now in its 27th year (the winner was VV Ganeshananthan's Brotherless Night) and now the Women's Prize for Non-Fiction (whose inaugural winner was Doppleganger by Naomi Klein), she also manages to write a book a year (and they're not small!) The latest of which, The Ghost Ship, is just out in paperback. In tribute I thought we'd replay one of the earliest The Shift conversations with her. This one is from February 2021 when The Shift was but a baby!...You'd be hard pushed to think of anyone who has done more for women writers than this week's guest. Twenty five years ago, Kate Mosse was working in publishing when she looked around and realised that everyone on all the awards shortlists looked familiar - pale, male and stale. The result - the Women's Prize for Fiction - has just celebrated its 25th anniversary, and given a much-needed voice to women's writing.Kate is also a bestselling author of 7 novels and 2 short story collections including the millions-selling global smash hit Labyrinth and her new book, The City of Tears. Kate is kind, funny and candid as she talks about how easily women's history is erased (and why we should never forget the women who went before us), her “other” job as a full-time carer - and why caring is a feminist issue - the devaluing of women's work, being a pathological optimist and why she CANNOT WAIT to be 60. Trigger Warning: Kate also speaks honestly about bereavement and grief, three quarters of the way through the episode.* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including The Midpoint Plan by Gabby Logan and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's Gabby Logan's summer. First there's the Euros and then the Paris Olympics are hot on their heels. Plus, she has a new book, The Midpoint Plan, out so it seemed like a fine time to revisit my conversation with her from a couple of years ago...My guest this week has hosted everything from Final Score to the Six Nations to the Olympics. Formerly an international gymnast, Gabby Logan moved into broadcasting in her early 20s and neither she – nor the male-dominated world of sports broadcasting – have looked back. Now 47, she's launched The Mid-Point, a podcast about midlife career change and becoming more comfortable in your own skin. Join us as Gabby talks resilience, reclaiming “middle age”, competitive coping, cooking for Mary Berry and why equality begins at home. Oh, and how it feels to be the Dame Judi Dench of sports broadcasting! And… There's SO MUCH more. You'll just have to listen on…* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including The Midpoint Plan by Gabby Logan and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's season finale time! And my guest today is the whirlwind also known as Kathy Lette.Australian Kathy smashed her way into the global bestseller lists at the age of 17 with the novel Puberty Blues. Since then she has turned her irreverent, en pointe pen on the peaks and troughs, triumphs and total BS of female existence.I first read her with Girls Night Out and The Llama Parlour in my twenties and met Kathy when I was features editor of New Woman (yet another resident of the magazine graveyard). Foetal Attraction and Mad Cow followed, which was made into a film starring Anna Friel and Joanna Lumley. 20 books later, her latest, The Revenge Club, takes hilarious aim at the way women are scrap-heaped (sometimes professionally and personally) in their 50s.Kathy joined me to play pun bingo and talk about why life is in two acts and the key is surviving the perimenopausal interval, reaping the benefits of the invisibility cloak and chipping away at ageing double standards. She also told me about being told off by her teenage daughter, the power of complaining, why divorce isn't to be feared and why her midlife mantra is, if it doesn't spark joy, it's time to toss it away.* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including The Revenge Club by Kathy Lette and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

My guest today is the teacher, musician and writer Molly Roden Winter. Molly hit the headlines earlier this year when her memoir More was published in the United States and caused… let's just call it “a storm”.Why? Because Molly's book is an incredibly candid account of her open marriage. Which, lets face it, shouldn't be that big of a deal in 2024. But something about a woman - a married woman, a mother, and one no longer in the first flushes of youth - talking so frankly about sex and self-discovery seemed to enflame people! More rushed straight to the top of the New York Times bestseller lists and now it's been published in the UK. But it's not just about sex - although there's plenty of that - it's about how a lifelong people pleaser, a good girl, “straight As Molly” learnt to put herself first. As Straight As Sam, I wanted to hear more!Molly joined me from Brooklyn to take us on her journey (sorry!) from monogamous thirtysomething mother of two small boys to unwitting ambassador for polyamory in her mid-50s! We also discussed the importance of owning your mess, becoming a sexual subject on your own terms, the revelation of realising you can love more than one person and the impact of discovering her parents were polyamorous too. I found this conversation a total revelation. Hope you will too. * You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including More by Molly Roden Winter and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

CONTENT WARNING: There are many moments of joy in this conversation, but please be aware that Liz talks candidly about grief and the sudden death of her son, which some listeners may find upsetting.My guest today is the writer and climate activist Liz Jensen. Half Danish and half-anglo Moroccan, Liz started out as a journalist, working in radio before becoming a BBC producer. Then, Liz turned her hand to novels. She has now written nine, perhaps the best known of which is The Ninth Life of Louis Drax, which was turned into a movie starring Jamie Dornan.Now she has written memoir, one no-one would ever want to write.Your Wild and Precious Life, is, at its heart the devastating story of the nine months after her youngest son Raphael died suddenly at the age of 25. Raph was a zoologist and climate activist, and this is also the story of Liz's own awakening.She is a founder of Extinction Rebellion Writers Rebel, which combines words and action to highlight the climate and ecological emergency.Liz joined me to talk about surviving the loss of a child, translating grief into hope and opening herself up to the natural world. We also discussed magical thinking, the concept of kairos, the unexpected solace of being part of the terrible club and why she used to want to marry an ape!A note: The episode of The Shift Liz and I discuss in the first five minutes is my conversation with 103-year-old Dr Gladys McGarey, you can listen to it here.* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Your Wild and Precious Life by Liz Jensen and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I first came across today's guest, Dr Emily Nagoski, on this very podcast, when my then guest Sarah Knight (creator of the NoFucks Given franchise) raved about the transformational power of her runaway bestseller, Come As You Are.I hunted it down and, like millions of women the world over, I was blown away. A sex expert speaking our language? Taking the pressure off, rather than piling it on? Never!So when I heard that the Kinsey-educated sex educator had turned her attention to long term relationships in her new book, Come Together, I was obsessed. Not least because it turns out that sex experts are human too and Emily had experienced her own fallow period.But instead of wallowing in it or panicking or buying uncomfortable knickers, Emily used her own story of sexual disconnection and reconnection as an opportunity to look at what makes and breaks sexual connections.And guess what: it's not what you think.Emily joined me from her home in New England to discuss coming out as a sex expert who lost her sex drive, taking the shoulds out of your sex life, why passion is overrated, how to get the weeds out of your sexual garden! being told she no longer had a “young vagina” And Why she only has one inarguable piece of advice: lube is good!* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Come As You Are and Come Together by Emily Nagoski and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

My guest today is a fashion editor on a mission to improve the representation of all women over 40 - not just the thin white ones with a ton of spare cash! Anna Cascarina has worked in the fashion industry for over 25 years, first as a fashion editor and stylist, then as a teacher.But as she got older and so did her body, something rankled. Yep - she was starting to feel like she and women like her (ie women over 40 and not a size 10) were not welcome here. In the stores she'd always shopped at, in the magazines she'd worked for, in ad campaigns and on screen.And so Anna started her Instagram account to help women who didn't fit the mould feel empowered through fashion. 120,000 followers later it seems like she's not the only one who's hacked off with the fashion industry for invisibling her.Anna joined me to talk about her new book The Forever Wardrobe, Being a size 16 woman who loves fashion when it doesn't love her back, The impact the fashion industry has had on her Body image and the responsibility she feels not to pass it on to her daughter. We also discussed how her epilepsy has impacted perimenopause and some ugly truths about ageing that no-one wants to tell you (hello arthritis!).* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including The Forever Wardrobe by Anna Cascarina and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

My guest today has blazed a trail through the British poetry scene ever since her work was first published in 1991. Born in Edinburgh, Jackie Kay MBE was brought up in Glasgow by her adoptive parents, Helen and John Kay, of whom much more later. She has had countless poetry collections, short stories and novels published to acclaim, as well as her glorious memoir Red Dust Road which tells the story of meeting her birth parents. The winner of over 20 awards, Jackie is a professor of creative writing at Salford University and for five years she was the Scottish Makar (that's basically poet laureate).Her new collection May Day is an elegy to her beloved parents who (died within a year of each other) and taught her the meaning and power of protest. Something Jackie took to heart marching for women's rights, gay liberation and Black Lives Matter.I went to Glasgow to meet Jackie while she was on tour. Her beloved older brother Maxie had just died and she spoke candidly about love, loss and absence, living with nothing between you and the sky and how poetry helps her survive. We also discussed coming back into yourself in your 50s and 60s, why there should be lists after white male writer's names, the art of living together apart and why her emotional age is 150!* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including MayDay by Jackie Kay and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

My guest today is the writer, actress and comedian Helen Lederer. Helen began as a stand-up comedian in the “comedy swamp” of the 1980s, where women were like hen's teeth and rose to fame with her sloaney girl at the bar in the BBC Comedy ‘Naked video'. Then came Saturday Night Live, The Young Ones, French and Saunders and Bottom with Rik Mayall. But she's probably best known as Catriona the dippy journalist in the TV series Absolutely Fabulous.It was after writing her first novel, Losing It, that Helen set up the Comedy Women In Print prize to put funny women's writing on the map and help ensure the next generation wouldn't have to put up with the lack of recognition she endured. (Also, she was pissed off!)Now the woman Dawn French calls “the third funniest woman in the world” has written a hilarious and frequently painful memoir about surviving that swamp, Not That I'm Bitter. She tells truths, she names names and she gives herself an absolute hiding!Helen and I got together over a Zoom cuppa to discuss life as the lone woman on the 80s comedy circuit and why being a pioneer is all very well, but she'd rather have had mainstream success! She also talked about professional jealousy, not “being in the A team”, fear of authority, why she's spent her life on a diet (remember Limmits biscuits?!) And being tougher on herself than anyone else.* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org, including Not That I'm Bitter by Helen Lederer and the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by me.* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on buymeacoffee.com• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com• The Shift (on life after 40) with Sam Baker is created and hosted by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls @ Pineapple Audio Production. If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate/review/follow as it really does help other people find us. And let me know what you think on twitter @sambaker or instagram @theothersambaker. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.