Podcasts about Precipitous

Nicole is a military spouse who had her VBAC in England. She shares what it was like to unexpectedly move overseas during pregnancy, how she navigated not receiving her household goods in time, and how she made the choice to deliver on base versus off. Nicole's first birth was a Cesarean during the height of COVID. During pushing, she was required to pause, take a COVID test, and wait an hour for the results or risk being separated from her baby after birth. Labor had gone smoothly up until that point, and Nicole knew something had changed after the pause. Things felt different, progress stalled, and ultimately Nicole consented to the Cesarean. Her VBAC was a surprisingly wild precipitous birth with only 2 hours between her first contraction and pushing the baby out! Meagan and Nicole discuss the unique challenges of precipitous births and how important it is to hold space for every birth experience. Needed WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello. Welcome to The VBAC Link. Today is Veteran's Day. If you are just joining us this month for the very first time, then welcome to your first specialized episode week. I don't even know what to call it. What would you call this, Nicole? I don't even know. Nicole: A one-of-a-kind situation. Meagan: Last month in October, we had Midwifery Week and now we have Veterans. Nicole is the wife of a Servicemember and she definitely and experience that I think a lot of military members and moms experience and people don't think about it. I don't think about that. When I was having my baby, it was like, Which hospital should I go to? There are 10-15 right around me. Then you're like, “Oh, hey. I'm pregnant and now I'm moving overseas.” You know? I think it's something that we just don't think about. It's fun to have it be Veteran's Day and to have a Servicemember's wife sharing your story today. We might even talk a little bit about navigating the military healthcare system and what choices you made. We learned a little bit about that before we started recording. We've got her amazing story today. Where are you right now?Nicole: I'm in England right now. Meagan: You are in England, okay. And that's where you had your baby. Nicole: Yes. Meagan: Awesome. So England mamas, definitely listen up for sure. All mamas, really. We do have a Review of the Week so I'm going to get into that then we'll start with your first story. This is from Roxyrutt and it says, “Inspiring”. It says, “Listening to these podcasts has been truly inspiring and I have been on my own hopeful VBAC journey. Listening to other stories has been incredibly helpful in my mental preparation.” We were just talking about that before we started recording as well just how impactful these stories can be for anyone but especially during your VBAC journey. It says, “My due date is April 17th this month–” so this is obviously a little while ago. It says, “I'm hoping to have my own VBAC story to share. Thank you all for what you do.” Thank you so much, Roxyrutt, for sharing your review. As always, we love your reviews. You can email them to us at info@thevbaclink.com or you can comment “Review” on your podcast. I think it's on Apple Podcasts, Spotify– I don't know if Google allows reviews. You might just have to do a rating. But wherever you listen to your podcasts, if you can leave a review, please do so. Okay, Nicole. Let's get going on your stories. I seriously thank you so much for joining me today. Nicole: Oh, thank you so much for having me. Like we mentioned before we started recording, this podcast has been extremely inspirational to me and it really led me to having the VBAC of my dreams. Meagan: And you had a precipitous VBAC, right? Did you have a pretty precipitous VBAC if I'm remembering right? It was 2 hours or something?Nicole: Yeah. It was so quick. Meagan: Okay. We are going to talk about that. Don't let me forget about that in the end. It is something that we don't talk about a lot. Most people think about birth being a long time. Nicole: Yeah. Meagan: Yeah. Precipitous birth can come out of left field and I want to talk about that. But first of course, every VBAC starts with a C-section so let's hear about your first.Nicole: Okay, yeah. So I had my first in June 2020 so literally right as the world was shutting down. Everybody was terrified with reason, right? I go in. I remember I had my baby shower planned and everything was planning and everything was canceled. I just felt depleted and I was scared. I remember watching videos on how to have a birth and what to do and all of the birthing videos and there was like, “Here's a segment on if you have a C-section.” I was like, That will never be me. I don't have to watch this because that will never happen. That is not in my cards. That is not in my birthing plan I typed up and had signed. That is not in my cards. So I decided with my doctor that I wanted to be induced and I said at 40 weeks I had done my time. Get this baby out of me. I had committed to 40 weeks because she kept saying, “Well, we can do it at 38 weeks if you're comfortable or 39 weeks.” I was like, “Nope. I will do it until 40 weeks. I've done my time. At this point, this baby is evicted.” On June 20th, I went in for my induction. Everything went smoothly. I was progressing but not as fast as they would like so we started Pitocin. That went well. I was doing really well and all of a sudden they were like, “I think we need to break your water.” I had heard horror stories about your water breaking and it's super painful and you're miserable after it. So I was like, “Well, let's get the epidural because why would I put myself through that if they have the option to make this smooth and comfortable? Why would I sit there and not be comfortable during this?” So I got the epidural and I just laid there. I laid in bed for a really long time then at about 3:00 in the morning, I got the urge to push. I let the nurses know. They checked. They said I was at 10 centimeters. Everything was good to go. They came in at about 3:10 and I started pushing. I pushed until about 6:00 AM. At that point, at about 5:00 AM, I started getting really hot. I noticed that they had turned the temperature in the room up obviously for baby. I started getting really overwhelmed and really hot. I started to throw up. My doctor turned down the temperature. She was like, “Let's turn down the temperature. I feel like you're just getting hot.” I was like, “I'm just hot. I just don't feel so good. I'm just hot.” They turned the temperature down then a new NICU nurse came in and she turned it up. I was watching her turn it up and I was just so uncomfortable. I started throwing up again and they were like, “Well, we need to pause because everything you're doing is an epidural symptom but it's also a symptom of COVID so we're going to stop you because we have to test you. You can either continue to push–”Meagan: We have to test you.Nicole: Yeah. I had gotten tested before I went in and then during my labor 3 hours in of pushing, they literally stopped me and said, “We need to do a COVID test.” I did a COVID test and it was crazy. You see all of these doctors in scrubs and masks and then all of a sudden they come in in these inflatable suits and everybody has these– which is more terrifying. I'm already scared. Meagan: Yeah, talk about invading your space. Nicole: Yeah, then you're telling me that I have an hour until this test comes back. I can either continue to push but if I push and have my baby, you're immediately going to take her away until my results come back or I can pause, not push for the hour and just let my body do it naturally and then resume pushing if my test comes back negative and I can continue to have skin on skin and the one-on-one time with my baby. Meagan: Hashtag, eye roll. Nicole: Yeah. So during that time, I was pushing well up until the COVID test. My baby was descending correctly. I stopped. I waited an hour and something shifted to where she then twisted a little bit and she– once my test came back negative and I was able to push again– was getting stuck on my pelvic bone and I could not get her out. They were tying blankets together and my husband would hold one end of the blanket and I would push and pull the end of the blanket as hard as I could to try and get her down. I was doing everything to push this baby out. Nothing was working. I started to develop preeclampsia so that was red flag number one. Then my baby's heart rate started to drop in between each contraction which I guess means that it could be around the neck and it's more concerning if it's between contractions versus during the contraction. So after her heart rate started dropping and continuously dropped, they decided to call it an emergency C-section. I just remember feeling devastated. I remember shouting– not shouting, but crying to my husband, “I don't want this. I don't want a C-section.” My doctor was like, “I have to hear it from you that you are okay to have the C-section.” I was like, “I mean, I guess if that's the only way to get this baby out but I don't want it.” I remember feeling the pain from my C-section and feeling so depleted. I pushed from 3:00 to 6:00 then I stopped for an hour. We resumed at 7:00. We pushed from 7:00 to 9:00 and then they called the emergency C-section and I had her at 9:36. It was a lot and I was pushing hard. I just remember getting back to the room, because my mother-in-law was there, and saying, “I haven't held her yet.” I didn't want anybody to hold the baby without me holding her first. I had heard stories of people who were like, “Everybody in my family got to hold the baby before I held my baby.” I just remember crying and I cried for weeks. I just felt like my body gave up on me. My recovery was terrible and that's what my doctor kept saying. She was like, “You have both recoveries. You pushed for so long that you're recovering from pushing and then you're also recovering from your C-section.” Then because I pushed so hard and I was trying so hard, I had tore all of the right side abs so I couldn't even move my legs to get in and out of bed for 4 weeks because my whole ab muscles were just torn. I had to go see therapy for that and I remember trying to drive me and this infant to therapy sessions and I was just in pain and then the drive home– it was so hard. I just felt like I was really bonding with my baby, but I felt like I was so disconnected with myself. I just couldn't do it. I had to have therapy because I went into postpartum depression. It was the hardest moment of my life because I really just felt like everybody was like, “Oh, it's so beautiful though. Your body did its job and it birthed this healthy baby.” I just wanted to scream every time somebody said that because I was like, “But it didn't. I pushed for hours, literally hours, and it didn't do its job. I had to have my baby taken out of me.” Meagan: You didn't feel that way.Nicole: Uh-huh. Yeah. People would be like, “Well, aren't you glad that you didn't have vaginal tearing?” I was like, “No, but I had hip to hip tearing and not just through the skin. It was muscles and layers.” I felt like everybody was trying to comfort me and it just felt like I wanted to scream at the top of my lungs because I didn't feel like anybody was understanding what mentally I was going through. Meagan: Yeah. I think that happens so often in the provider world but also just in our family and friends' world. We get thrown the, “Aren't you just happy you have a healthy baby?” It's like, “Yeah, duh.” But then also that thing, “Well, aren't you glad that didn't happen to your vagina? Aren't you glad you don't have to deal with incontinence?” Or similar things where in people's minds, I don't think they realize that it's causing harm or that there are ill feelings at all. They are just saying these things, but it's like, “I don't feel like I birthed my baby and I don't feel good about it and I'm dealing with a lot of trauma physically to my body, not just even emotionally but physically to my body. No, I'm not feeling great right now and it's okay that I don't feel great. I understand that you're just trying to help and validate me maybe, I don't know.” Maybe that's what people are doing but it doesn't always feel good. Nicole: Yeah, people kept telling me to be mad at my provider. I was like, “I hear you. But at the end of the day, she's new to COVID just like we are. She's going into this trying to navigate it.” I think she did and I think she made the best calls, but everybody was like, “Why are you mad at yourself? Be mad at this person.” I was like, it wasn't her fault necessarily. She didn't know what was happening. COVID was so new and it was just blowing up in Utah. It was just this big thing and it seemed like nobody was listening to the fact that I was upset with my body and how my body handled this. Everybody was just like, “Well, it's a healthy baby. Blame this person or that person. It's COVID.” I was like, “But what about me? You're not listening to me.” That was so tough. I felt like I was screaming it and people were trying to silence it without purposely trying to silence it. Meagan: Right. Okay, so I have some questions for you. So when they were offering you sheets and it sounds like you were maybe playing some tug-of-war. What I call it in my doula mind is tug-of-war where you are pulling and tugging and all of those things. Obviously, they were really trying to help this baby get out vaginally and things like that. Did they offer you changing of positions even though you had that epidural? Were they like, “Hey, let's try to get you on your side or get you on your hands and knees?” You said you kind of felt your C-section a little bit, right? Is that what you said? So it maybe wasn't as deep of an epidural so maybe you could have done hands and knees or something? Did they ever offer anything like that?Nicole: They didn't. They did try the vacuum three times but it immediately would just pop right off of her head because she was shifted. Meagan: Asynclitic a little bit, maybe?Nicole: Yeah, so they said that after three times it was unsafe at that point and it was going to have the same results. Nothing was going to happen. I didn't want to do the vacuum, but once we were at that position, I was like, “Let's just try it.” I agreed to three times and then we were done. Keep it safe. That's when we started doing the tug-of-war and we did that for a long time. My husband was holding it and he was like, “The first time, you almost knocked me down because I wasn't expecting you.” I was pulling so hard. I just wanted this baby out. Yeah, they didn't move me in any positions. I was just on my back. Now that I know better, I wish I would have tried. Meagan: But again, you didn't know what you didn't know. For listeners, if you are in a situation where your baby might be tilted to the side asynclitic or transverse and maybe you have done tug-of-war and things like this, and even then, sometimes it doesn't work. For some reason, the baby is where they are, but a little bit of a tilt to the side especially if there is one side where they feel the baby's head or try to get on hands and knees to change that pelvic dynamic can help. But I love that they were like, “Let's do tug-of-war. Let's do these things.” I love that providers are still encouraging other things in other ways. It sounds like they really did try and avoid a Cesarean by doing a vacuum and doing the tug-of-war. That is super awesome. I was also wondering if you have any tips for moms who have maybe pushed for a really long time like you did and had essentially have vaginal pelvic floor trauma and also gone down the Cesarean route. Is there anything you would suggest to moms? Or even for moms who maybe had a C-section and had this possibly happen. Yeah, do you have any tips that you would suggest to help with healing both physically and mentally?Nicole: Yeah. One of the biggest things that we did which was incredibly helpful– I'll give you a funny story after– but one of the biggest things that we did was my husband would get out of bed. We breastfed. He would hand me baby. I would breastfeed her and burp her and then he would get out of bed, change her, and put her back down. That was incredibly helpful because all I had to do was go from laying to sitting. I couldn't pick my legs up to move them out of the bed without it being excruciating, so having him just help me sit up and hold baby made a huge difference. Having that support person there to help do the heavy lifting technically to get in and out of bed was next-level game changer. It helped me. I got to sleep more because he changed the diaper. We took turns then he would sleep during feedings. We were really changing. I do remember going to the pediatrician and my husband talking to the pediatrician and I was like, “Wrong person to ask.” He was like, “She keeps waking in the middle of the night and rocking holding this invisible baby and bouncing it.” It was because I would forget that I gave the baby back to my husband. Meagan: Yeah, because you're so tired. Nicole: I'm so tired and he would be like, “It's freaking me out.” I picked up my little Yorkie and I was rocking her. My husband was like, “That's the dog.” I thought I had fell asleep and the baby was next to me so I picked up the dog. I remember the husband talking to the pediatrician and I was like, “That is the wrong doctor. He knows nothing about my mental state,” and him being like, “It's terrifying,” but it really did help me. It might have scared him, but it just was so helpful and I just felt like I didn't have to worry about dropping the baby walking in and out of bed. It helped speed up my recovery because I wasn't constantly getting in and out at all hours of the night. Meagan: Yeah, that is so impactful. I love that you pointed that out. I know that some postpartum doulas do that too but if your partner is able to help you in that way, I also think it's really great because that helps them bond with the baby too. I mean, they might not be feeding the baby but they are changing and carrying and soothing the baby back to sleep as well. I love that. I love that you did that. How long did you do that until you were feeling better and getting in and out of bed was feasible?Nicole: It took me about 3 weeks until I felt comfortable and confident. That was another thing. I could feel comfortable but wasn't confident to get in and out of bed without worrying about a sharp pain or something glitching or stumbling. Meagan: Mhmm. I'm so proud of you guys for being a team and making sure that you took care of that. Nicole: We'll keep him. Meagan: You needed to take care of yourself and I love that you were like, “This is what we need. This is what we need to do.”Awesome. Well, before we get into your next story which is amazing, we're going to take a quick moment and listen to me, I guess, about our sponsor. Okay, and we're back. Let's get onto this VBAC story. Nicole: So being military, we had decided my daughter was so great and so fun at about 8 months or 9 months and we were like, “Let's do this again. Let's have another one. We want them close in age. Let's try again.” So she turned 1 in June. In May, we decided to go on a long weekend because my husband had just graduated college. He's military and was going to school which is a whole other added pressure. Meagan: That's a lot. Nicole: Yeah. We flew our mother-in-law out. She stayed with our baby for Memorial Day Weekend and him and I went to Tahoe for the weekend. We decided starting in May that we were going to start trying again. We were like, on May 1st, we're going to start trying for a baby. We get back from Tahoe on June 1st. I think it was June 1st. It was right at the end of May and the beginning of June. His coworkers were like, “Guess what? You have orders to RAF Lakenheath in England.” My husband was like, “No, I don't. You're kidding. I don't. That's a joke.”He called me and he was like, “I have bad news.” We had just dropped my car off at the dealership that morning so I was like, “Oh no, what we thought was a minor issue was huge.” He was like, “We have orders to England.” I was like, “That's not terrible news. That's the best news I've heard all month.” He was like, “No, that's terrible,” because he was planning on getting out of the military. Meagan: Oh no. Nicole: We had 2 weeks to decide if he was going to stay in and take these orders or if he was going to get out. We spent 2 weeks going back and forth if this was the best option for our family and if this what we wanted. What could we do over there? We decided that we would go overseas if we decided to wait on having a baby. We cut it off. No more babies at the beginning of June. We were like, “We're done. We're going to have our one. Towards the end of our 4 years is when we are going to start trying for our second. That way, we can get back here and have our baby back in the States.” We were like, “We'll travel with our one child because it's easier to travel with one than two. We'll travel with one kid. We'll do our 4 years there and when we come back, we'll have our next baby.” It wasn't ideal because we wanted them close in age, but at least we were traveling and eventually, we would have our second. He took the orders on June 2nd. I was prepping for my daughter's first birthday. We were having a pool party. I was like, okay. Her birthday's on June 20th. It is June 16th. I wonder when I'm going to get my period because I don't want to be on my period and swimming. Meagan: During the pool party, yeah. Nicole: I looked at my app and I was 7 days late. I was like, What? I don't think that's right, but let's just take a test. I took a test and I was pregnant. So, the joke was on us. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Nicole: Yes. We found out in June that we were having our second and we were due to be in England in November. So at the end of the month in November was our DEROS date or the day that we were supposed to be in England and he was supposed to be signed onto the base. We decided that we would just pack up and do this all while I was pregnant. We moved over there on November 15th. Once I got here, I was like, Well, what do I do now? I am halfway through my pregnancy. I have nothing because COVID again, had stopped all of our furniture stuff because the ports were closed and that whole issue of everything being shut down. The world was still closed so we were like, “What do we do?” We had sent our stuff at the beginning of October to arrive in England and they were like, “Well, you're not expecting anything.” We had bought all of our baby stuff before because we were like, “Well, we'll just buy it here and ship it over there, and then we won't have to worry about trying to buy it over there.” There are different sizes of cribs there, and the bedding size is different. I don't want people to buy us sheets then all of a sudden it's UK sizes and it doesn't fit and it's unsafe for baby. It was a big thing. We bought all of our stuff. I was ready to have it. Then we got here and they were like, “It looks like you're not going to get any of your household goods until April.”Meagan: November to April?Nicole: October to April because we shipped in October. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Nicole: Uh-huh. Yeah. We were living in temporary furniture that was terrible. We had to go out and buy blow-up mattresses because those were more comfortable than the beds that they gave us. It was wild. Then I'm trying to find a doctor. I'm trying to find a provider. I don't know what I'm doing. I've called all of the birthing doulas because of the podcast that I had been religiously listening to. I was like, “I know what a doula is. That's what I need.” They were all booked up because by the time we got here in November and I got the chance to interview them, they were all booked up for the month of February when my baby was due.So now I'm sitting here, “Well, what do I do? Do I have the baby on base? Do I have the baby off base?” I don't know. I don't know anything about where we're living. I don't know anything about the hospitals. I don't know anything. I'm just guessing off of people's posts on Facebook, but they are so hit-and-miss. Somebody is going to post a really great story, then all of a sudden, somebody makes a post of a traumatizing story which scares you. It's like, was the good story one in a million, or was the traumatizing story one in a million? I was just navigating this. I started going to my doctor's appointments on base because I knew that Tricare covered the OB/GYN. I was trying to navigate how it would cover overseas. I had to make a lot of phone calls and all of that fun stuff. I was like, “Well, I'll just start on base and see if I need to transfer off base.” On base was okay. It's way different seeing a military doctor than it is seeing a provider who chooses this field and who wants this field. All of my prenatal care was okay. There were a few things that I wasn't a fan of and if we weren't talking about it, I could tell you what is the strep B test, right? Meagan: Group B strep?Nicole: Mhmm. They test you. They swab you to see if you have a skin infection to see if you need to be on antibiotics. In the states, my doctor performed that on me. Here, they gave me a test tube and told me I had 5 minutes to complete it. I was like, “What? I can't even see down there let alone swab myself.” I just remember crying in the thing and begging people to do it and they were like, “We don't do it. You have to perform it on yourself.” My husband was home watching our toddler, so I had no support with me. It was definitely different. I looked at the hospitals off base and I was really unsure with the way that I had them. You would give birth in a birthing suite with your husband, then they would send him home and move you to this big room with other moms who had their babies. I was really navigating, what is the best fit for me and how am I going to have this baby and my VBAC? I want this VBAC. Who is going to advocate for me? I don't have a doula. I'm doing this by myself. My husband only knows so much. He doesn't understand it all, so he is only retaining half of what I'm saying. I made it to 40 weeks. I was like, “Get this baby out of here.” My mother-in-law was here to watch my daughter. That's another thing. You have to find childcare for your toddler because you don't have family around to watch your baby. We were so new here. We didn't have friends here to watch our baby. My mother-in-law luckily came out and made it for the birth. She watched my daughter. I decided that since she was here, and I needed to get this baby out before she left so I had childcare, I would do a membrane sweep because I was 40 weeks and I think I was 2 days at that point. I did a membrane sweep. That was unsuccessful at 40 weeks and 2 days. I did a second one. That was very successful. We had my membrane sweep in the morning. I remember just doing lunges and squats all day long. We took my daughter to a forest. She just ran, and I did lunges behind her. There are videos of my husband following my daughter around, and I'm in the background just doing lunges and doing anything to keep active, to keep this baby going. I went to bed that night on February 23rd. I went to bed at about 9:00 PM. I woke up at 2:00 AM. It was about 2:30 when I woke up. I felt this really sharp pain in my stomach. I thought he had kicked my bladder, so I stood up on the bed. It was like a movie. You heard the gush, and then all of a sudden, water was just trickling down my legs. I was like, “Well, I still feel like I have to pee, so that was definitely my water breaking not me having to go to the bathroom and him kicking my bladder,” which signaled me having to go to the bathroom. My husband had just come to bed at about 2:00 AM. He had only been asleep for about 30 minutes. I was like, “Hey, no rush. This is going to take hours.” Again, nobody thinks that labor happens fast. I woke him up. I was like, “No rush. I just need you to go downstairs and get my military ID,” because at this point, I decided to have him on base. I was like, “I just need you to get my military ID because they are going to ask for that information in labor and delivery. Let them know that my water broke and that we would be in in a few hours. No rush. I'm going to take a shower. I'm going to go back to sleep. I'm just going to sleep this off. We will wake up in the morning, say goodbye to Naomi, and then go to the hospital.” Again, I had told my daughter that I would see her in the morning, and then I left the room that night saying, “Why did I say that? There's no guarantee.” I had been saying for weeks, “I hope you sleep good,” and that's it. Then of course, the one time that I accidentally said, “I'll see you in the morning,” I wasn't seeing her in the morning. He calls Labor and Delivery and they were like, “Well, because of her past, we want her in now.” I was like, “No. No. I don't want to labor in a hospital. I want to labor as long as I can at home. I want to do this by myself. I want to be comfortable. I don't want people to tell me what I should be doing then it going against what I want to do. I really want to do this by myself.” He's arguing with Labor and Delivery. He was like, “Well, let me talk to my wife, and I will call you back.” I was like, “I'm going to get in the shower real quick and wash myself off because my water just broke.” Meagan: Had you started contracting at this point or just trickling? Nicole: Very minimal. It was every 5 minutes. It was very minimal, nothing crazy. I could totally go clean my car at this point. I was walking on water. My water broke. I'm great. I feel good. I feel nothing. I'm in the shower. All I did was put shampoo in my hair. I didn't even get it rinsed out, and all of a sudden, my contractions went from 0 to 100. I could not breathe. I could not talk through them. I could not even do anything. I felt like my mind was so focused on the pain. My husband was trying to ask me questions, and I couldn't even register what he was saying through each contraction. I told him, “Call them back because we are on our way now. I need to get out of the shower. I need you to throw conditioner in my hair while I have this next contraction. I need to rinse it out, then we need to go.” He's trying to talk to them and put conditioner in my hair. I'm having a contraction. I put my pants on, and as I'm pulling them up, another contraction hit. Then they started going from having a contraction for a minute and a half to a break for 30 seconds, and then immediately back into another contraction for a minute and a half. I was like, “What is happening?” I never felt this with my daughter. I had the epidural. Things went so smoothly and so slowly that it was cake. This was the next level. I waddled into the car. I remember sitting in the front seat and saying, “I can't do this.” I climbed into my toddler's car seat because I had the infant car seat up, and I couldn't fit in between the two car seats, so I had to sit with my knees in my toddler's car seat. I was holding onto the back headrest for support and just standing there. I was on my knees, chest against the back of her car seat, and I'm just holding onto this headrest with every contraction. I'd have three in a row. I'd have one for a minute and thirty, a break for 30 seconds, a minute and thirty, a break for 30 seconds, a minute and thirty, then I'd have a two-minute break, and then they would kick back up again. My husband was just flying. The roads were closed on our normal fastway to base. We lived 30 minutes away, so it was an extra 15 minutes to get to base. He was flying at 2:50 in the morning at this point. I'm sorry, it was 3:50 in the morning at this point. We get to the hospital at 4:05. I am hugging a tree outside because my husband couldn't figure out how to open the wheelchair. Poor guy, he was trying so hard to help me. Meagan: I'm sure. It was a frantic moment. Yeah. Nicole: Yeah. He couldn't figure out how to open it. He had to go to the ER and get somebody in the ER to help him. They were wheeling me up, and I remember yelling at them because they kept saying, “We'll have to do triage and see if you're in active labor before we can bring your husband back.” I remember telling this poor ER nurse, “You'd better not split my husband and I up. I am not doing triage. We are going into a room. We are having this baby.” She was like, “Ma'am, I think we're just going to put you in a room. I don't think we are going to need triage.” I get into the room. I am continuously having contractions. They tried to stop me to do a COVID test. I death-glared this guy because he wanted to do a COVID test on me. I was like, “Been there, done that. Not doing that again.” I remember them trying to put an IV in my hand. I was like, “I don't need an IV. This kid is coming out of me. I know I tested positive for the strep test, but I don't need an IV. He's already out. There's nothing that this is going to help.”I get up on the bed. They tried to get me to lay on my back to push and I couldn't. I remember my husband was like, “No, that's not how she wanted to push. She wants to push with her knees on the bed and her chest against the back holding on. That's how she wants to deliver him.”He was advocating for me which I was so grateful for because I felt the entire time that he didn't know what I wanted because he didn't understand my terms, he didn't understand why, he didn't understand the VBAC world, so I felt like I was talking to thin air. So for him to sit there and be like, “No, that is not how she is going to deliver this baby. She wants to be on her knees hunkering down.” I did. I got up there. I pushed two pushes, and he was out. His hand was stuck to his face. Meagan: Nuchal hand, wow. Nicole: He was holding onto his face. He got a little stuck because of his elbow, so after I got his head out, they made me flip over and deliver him on my back which I was totally okay with because we had done the hard part. I remember my husband saying that was the weirdest thing watching me turn around with this baby hanging out. He was like, “You just flipped around like it was nothing.” I was like, “I knew he was fine.” I tore because his hand was up and it was added pressure. But yeah, he came out in two pushes. He was born by 4:36, so 2 hours and I had my baby. It was absolutely wild. I just remember that I had him. I was just in the chaos of it, and about two minutes later, my husband was like, “Nicole, you had a VBAC.” I just started shouting it. I was like, “I had a VBAC.” It didn't even dawn on me in the craziness of it all that I pushed this baby out of me. I was just like, “Is he okay? Is he healthy? Does everything look good? Are you sure he has 10 toes and 10 fingers? Is everything good?” My husband was like, “Nicole, you had a VBAC. You really did it.” Yeah. It was crazy. He came so fast which was unexpected and nobody tells you about that. It was just wild, but I had a VBAC. Meagan: You had a VBAC with a nuchal hand too. That can be a little tricky sometimes, right? That is amazing, but I love just how intuitively from the very beginning, your body too was like, hands and knees. Forward-leaning position. That's what your body intuitively was telling you to do to get this baby here. I love that you just went with that. I love that he advocated for you despite not really understanding. I can relate to that. My husband did not understand why I wanted to do what I wanted to do, but it's so nice to have them be there for you in that ending moment when it really matters so much. Nicole: Absolutely, yeah. I was shocked. When he started saying it and he was like, “No. She wants to push like this,” I was like, “What? You listened?” Meagan: You listened. I love that. Oh, well thank you so much for sharing that story. Huge congrats and man, precipitous labor like you said, people don't talk about it. It does happen. It's funny because I had a long, 42-hour labor. Someone asked me, “Would you rather have a long labor that took forever like that or would you rather have a precipitous labor?” I had said that I really wanted a fourth and I just hoped it went faster. I don't know. I don't know which one I would prefer because long is exhausting and hard, but man, precipitous– and I have seen them. I have supported them as a doula and seen 2-3 hour-long labors. It's a lot of change in a body to happen in such a short period of time, and it's so intense. I mean, it is the next level. So, I don't know. Nicole: It's crazy. It's crazy that they are so fast, but your body just knows what it's doing. That blew my mind. With my daughter, I felt like I was trying. I was listening to everybody, and they were telling me what to do. I was just following suit, but with this one, there were no decisions being made. My body was like, “This is how it's going to happen and that's it.” I remember shouting for the epidural when I got in the hospital room. I was like, “I want that epidural. Call the anesthesiologist now.” They were like, “Honey, I think he's already here. I don't think we have time for that.” My body was like, “No, you're not sitting down. You're not going to do this. This is how–” I didn't even have time to focus on my breathing. My body was just doing it itself which is crazy thinking back on it. My body just knew. I was so down on myself thinking my body had failed me, but then having a super fast labor, my body was just like, “Nope, this is how we're going to get it done and that's it.” Meagan: Okay, so with precipitous labor too, like you said, it went from 0 to 100 like that. Do you have any tips for moms with that experience of that type of intensity? Obviously, listening to your body and getting to your birthing location on time. I'm assuming that's continuing. Sometimes, I feel like it can be really intense when it feels like they are ramping up and then they piddle out. But it does, it seems to ramp up, like you said, from 0 to 100 and it hangs on. It holds on tight and it is not stopping.Nicole: Yeah. Definitely listen to your body. I felt like I spoke up a lot with what was happening at one point. I've always been this way where there are certain sounds that make me nauseous if I'm under a lot of stress or if I'm feeling sick, so my husband talking– it's funny because he was like, “Say your affirmations. You are brave. You can do this.” His talking was making me nauseous. I was like, “Stop. Stop talking. Although it is what I want to hear, it is not helping.” Being super open about what was happening like when he went to get the wheelchair, I was like, “I can't sit in this car. I have to get out.” He was like, “Just sit in the car. Let me help you.” Being super aware and open about what I was feeling and what my body was telling me to do because going up and holding onto this tree, and every time I walk past this tree at medical, I'm like, “I almost gave birth right there had we not gotten that wheelchair open.” Hunkering down on that tree gave so much more relief that it was sitting in the car waiting for him. Although, I know that the car probably would have been the safest option for me rather than the tree with dirt and bushes–Meagan: Hey, that's actually pretty cool if that happened. Nicole: Right? But knowing what it was and being communicative. Even through all the chaos, every second that I could, I was saying, “This is what I need right now. This is what I'm feeling.” That was helpful not only for myself mentally because I didn't have the option. Things were just happening, but mentally being aware, and also allowing my husband to help me and support me where I needed was also really helpful. Meagan: I love that. Speak up. Follow your body. Have an awesome partner to help guide you through. I think too like what you said earlier, he listened. That goes with speaking up, talking about our feelings, and talking about our desires. Even if you don't think it's being understood or really heard, it probably is. Nicole: Yeah. It was just so crazy to me with him being like, “I'm so confused why somebody would want to push like that,” then him being like, “No, she's going to push like that.” I was like, “What? You remembered.” Even in all the craziness, and he thought for sure when I told him to stop when we were driving, he thought I meant to stop the car because he thought I was going to have the baby before I could finish after my contraction, “Stop talking.” Yeah, so even through all of the craziness and his mind going rampant, because he's going through it too thinking, “Am I going to deliver this baby on the side of the road?” Now that we're in a different country, who do we call? Do we call 9-9-9 or do we call 9-1-1? Do we call base or do we call locals? We're in the middle of the country. His mindset is going, so having him say that in the craziness was even more powerful. Meagan: Mhmm. Oh my gosh. Well, huge congrats again. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. I do know that it's going to impact someone out there, probably hundreds and thousands of people to be honest, so yeah. Thank you so much. Do you have any other tips or any advice that you'd like to give to any moms in regards to VBAC, in regards to birth, in regards to preparation, or in regards to navigating military changes? Delivering on base or off base? Are there any other suggestions that you'd like to give? Nicole: I would say to really trust your instinct. I was obsessed with my first doctor with my daughter and she was my second daughter going into this. Obviously, I couldn't keep her. I tried to get her to come over here, but she wouldn't. Trust in your instinct in what you think is right for you and your baby. It's so interesting to where you believe that this is one thing and this is how it should be, but then when your instincts are kicking in and they are telling you, “This is what's best for you and your baby,” it's a whole other path. I just recommend to listen. Listen to your body. Listen to what your gut is telling you. It will fall into place. Things are scary and sometimes things are wild, especially with the military and moving in the middle of a pregnancy. It is terrifying. I've known spouses who stay after and they bring their baby over when their baby is 8 weeks old and can finally get a passport. But knowing that you can do it overseas, I definitely think it's special because your partner is there. It's just a crazy ride, but if you trust yourself, your self will always guide you in the right way. Meagan: Yeah. We've been saying it since this podcast started in 2018. Your intuition is so impactful. Trust it all the way. Go with it. I love that advice. Thank you. Nicole: Thank you. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Chelsey shares her precipitous homebirth stories with us. Along with her journey from doula work to becoming a student midwife. Chelsey's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/supportingmamaswithbabies/ The Empowered Homebirth Course: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://birthsathome.com/pages/empowered-homebirth-course⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Esmeralda on Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/birthsathome/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ My website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://birthsathome.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ More links: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://msha.ke/birthsathome⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

In this episode, we explore two questions. First, we break down the role of choline in pregnancy, including its benefits for fetal brain development. We review the current evidence and provide practical tips on how to ensure you're getting enough choline from your diet or supplements. Next, we dive into precipitous labor, when labor progresses rapidly—and discuss what you can do to prepare for a fast labor. Thank you to our sponsor 20% off Mommy Steps or Form insoles with the promo code FEET. Studies show pregnancy can make your feet grow. In one study, 61% of participants had a measurable increase in foot length, and 22% reported going up a shoe size. The thought of going up a shoe size and having to replace every pair of shoes you own might freak you out. The good news is that wearing insoles can protect your feet from going up in size. Read the full article and resources that accompany this episode. Join Pregnancy Podcast Premium to access the entire back catalog, listen to all episodes ad-free, get a copy of the Your Birth Plan Book, and more.  Check out the 40 Weeks podcast to learn how your baby grows each week and what is happening in your body. Plus, get a heads up on what to expect at your prenatal appointments and a tip for dads and partners.  For more evidence-based information, visit the Pregnancy Podcast website.

Alyssa Frain is a licensed acupuncturist turned full-time stay-at-home mom. She had her first daughter in September 2020, a missed miscarriage in 2022, and a successful HBAC in January 2024. She enjoys helping women take their health back into their own hands by showing them how to tune into their bodies and support it with Chinese Herbal Medicine. Her goal is to empower women to reconnect with their bodies so they can live healthier, more fulfilling lives. Some highlights from the episode:

Jessie thought she was prepared to have a smooth, natural, and pain free birth until... The hospital kept interrupting the labor room, asking for continuous monitoring, and made the birth experience something Jessie never wanted to relive again. When she got pregnant with her second child, Ava, she knew things would be different. She and her husband weren't 100% sold on having a home birth, but that's why we have peace that God's plan is greater. Tune in to hear all about Jessie's redemptive and unplanned home birth. EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: What a majority of "natural births" look like in a hospital Shifting the mindset of "women have to be strong" What created an entirely different experience for Jessie in her second pregnancy The power of visualization in pregnancy and through birth How children's temperaments can differ from hospital versus home births The woman's body: letting go of trauma & knowing we aren't cursed to have painful births MORE ABOUT JESSIE RITTER: Mom of two, wife, and musician living in the Florida Panhandle. Jessie had a difficult first birth in the hospital, and an absolutely blissful second time unplanned home birth. Instagram: @jessie.l.ritter TikTok: @jessieritter Facebook Twitter YouTube CONNECT WITH KAREN: Stay in the loop with Pain Free Birth and become an Insider HERE! Thanks for listening! Get 10% off the Pain Free Birth E-Course HERE! Grab Karen's Healing Birth Trauma Course HERE. This course is for any woman experiencing trauma in the body. If you're ready to release it, this course is for you. Instagram Facebook YouTube

In this episode, Emma shares her amazingly unexpected, yet so magical precipitous twin birth. Fascinated by birth by baby number two, Emma had done a lot of research and precipitous births had never stood out to her... that was until the twins came along. Her instincts were on fire. From the midwife being minutes away, husband nearly passing out, and babies coming quick enough she almost forgot to undress?! This birth story is one to remember. EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: Previous hospital births versus a twin home birth Feeling contractions! Time for some hot tea? Nope! Husband's hilarious reaction to a precipitous 34-minute labor & birth The overwhelm that can come with a birth of this nature MORE ABOUT EMMA BRAKE: Emma is a young wife and mother of five. She grew up a missionary kid, marrying her high school sweetheart, a handsome Marine, at 18, and in the following seven years, five sweet little wildlings joined their family! Their youngest three were born at home, including most recently her twins, a precipitous, accidentally unassisted homebirth. It was all rather exciting and very, very messy! These days she's blessed to spend her days at home wrestling what feels like 764 toddlers, telling her husband not to buy it at the store because she can make it at home, and fumbling her way through homesteading, endless home projects, and raising five free range kiddos to love Jesus. Instagram: @thisredeemedmama Facebook Website CONNECT WITH KAREN: Stay in the loop with Pain Free Birth and become an Insider HERE! Thanks for listening! Get 10% off the Pain Free Birth E-Course HERE! Instagram Facebook YouTube

Hannah is a VBAC mom and doula with Ebb and Flow Birth Co. located in Indiana. Hannah's first labor began very intensely. Her platelet levels were high enough for her to be able to get an epidural which she requested right away. She dilated to complete quickly, but after about 4 hours of pushing, baby just kept coming down and going back up with no progress. Hannah was exhausted and consented to a Cesarean. Unfortunately, her very effective epidural was not as effective during her surgery. It was painful. She required higher doses of medicine, hemorrhaged, and was so out of it that she remembers very little about her baby's actual birth.After the birth of her son, Hannah researched birth options and did all she could do ensure she'd never have another Cesarean. Her VBAC pregnancy included thrombocytopenia again, partial placenta previa (which completely resolved!), marginal cord insertion, and she was GBS+. With a great team and supportive provider, Hannah was able to stay focused on her VBAC goal even with the curveballs thrown at her. She went into labor spontaneously, progressed quickly, and though her pushing stage mimicked the same patterns, with the help of her doula's tips and freedom to move without an epidural, baby was able to descend and come right out!Hannah's Doula WebsiteWhat is Thrombocytopenia? ACH PublicationsPlatelet Transfusions ArticleNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Welcome, welcome. I hope you guys are having an incredible day. We have a guest today who has a VBAC story with a whole bunch of different things added to her journey. She has thrombocytopenia. Thrombocytopenia, I always say that wrong, which means low platelet count. That is definitely something that is more unique. It's a little bit more rare, but if you've ever been told that you have low platelet counts or thrombocytopenia, this is definitely going to be an episode for you to listen to. She also had partial placenta previa and even marginal cord insertion. I am so excited for her to be sharing her story today. We do have a Review of the Week so I'm going to dive right into that and then we are going to get into her beautiful story. This review was just left on Apple Podcasts recently and it said, “I recently discovered this amazing VBAC podcast and I'm absolutely hooked. The host is incredibly knowledgeable and passionate about all things related to pregnancy, childbirth, and postpartum care. Each episode is packed with insightful information, personal stories, and practical tips for expectant mothers and families. I love how they bring on guests and experts to cover a wide range of topics making each episode engaging and informative. Whether you're a first-time mom or a seasoned parent, this podcast is a valuable resource and empowers and educates. I highly recommend tuning in and soaking up all the wisdom shared on The VBAC Link Podcast.” I love this review and as always, I love them all. I love every single review, you guys. It is so amazing to get a notification in our inbox that a review has been left, so if you haven't had a chance yet, please do so. Please leave us a review. Tell us what you think about The VBAC Link Podcast. You can do it on Apple Podcasts. You can rate us on Spotify or really wherever you listen to your podcasts. Or even Google– you can Google “The VBAC Link” and leave us a review there. As I always say, these reviews truly warm my heart but they actually really help your community and these other Women of Strength find this podcast and these stories. I encourage you to leave a review and tell us what you think so someone else can find this episode as well. Meagan: Well, welcome Hannah. Thank you so much for joining us. Seriously, you guys, I can't tell you guys enough. Every time I have someone recording, I'm like, “Thank you for being here with me” because it takes a village and without all of your guys' stories, this podcast wouldn't be a thing. So thank you for being here, Hannah, and yeah. Feel free to share your stories. Tell the world what you feel like they need to know. Hannah: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity to share my story because both stories, I could talk about all day but also, I listened to your podcast consistently, constantly throughout the postpartum after I had my C-section and also during my VBAC pregnancy. With our first, I didn't really have a different plan other than what my friends and family had done. I had planned to go to the highly recommended hospital in my area with a random OB that I just chose. The only real decision I knew I wanted specifically was that I knew I wanted to go unmedicated for my birth but I didn't do anything other than general childbirth classes to actually prepare to birth unmedicated. I just assumed, “I'm going to go in and have a baby unmedicated and everything will be fine.” I didn't do anything to prepare for that and my pregnancy was pretty uneventful. I was sick the entire time. I had borderline hyperemesis– not officially diagnosed, but I was very, very sick. The only other weird thing I guess that I wasn't aware of before pregnancy was I had gestational thrombocytopenia where your blood platelet count gets lower. Meagan: Yes. We just heard about this on a recent story and I had never even heard of that before. Hannah: Yeah, I've had it with both of my pregnancies so I think my body just does that when I'm pregnant. The only thing that they had mentioned about that was there was a potential that you won't be able to get an epidural if your platelets fall too low. I had wanted to go without an epidural anyway so I wasn't really concerned about that, but again, I didn't do much to prepare. At the end of my third trimester, around that 36-week mark, they had brought up, “Well, your baby is measuring potentially big.” They estimated him weighing 11 pounds. They were like, “If you want to schedule an induction at 39 weeks, you can. If not, that's fine. It's up to you.” My OB was really great about just presenting options and not forcing things to happen. She did say, “You can schedule one of you want to but you don't have to.” I did schedule an induction for 39+5 or something like that. At 38 weeks and 39 weeks, I decided to get membrane sweeps. I got one at 38 weeks exactly and 39 weeks exactly. The day after I got my membrane sweep at 39 weeks, at 39+1, I went into labor. This was before my induction. I didn't have to end up being induced, but my contractions that morning had started so fast and so hard that I was really thrown off. I was shocked because when I had talked to people, they said, “They'll gradually build and they'll gradually get closer together and stronger in intensity over a few days or whatever it may be.”Mine started. It just hit me like a train. It was really bad so I called my husband. He was already at work that morning and I said, “We need to go to the hospital now. I need to get an epidural right away.” Because they were so intense, I just thought, I'm really far into labor, clearly. We got to the hospital and we got into triage. They checked me and they were like, “Well, you're about 3 centimeters.” I was just so annoyed. I was like, Okay. I'm only 3 centimeters. Whatever. We can stay because I'm obviously not coping well. I got an epidural right away as soon as we got back to be admitted. Thankfully my platelets were within range to get the epidural. Meagan: That's awesome. Did you get platelet transfusions at all during pregnancy? Hannah: Nope. They just monitored them. They continued to decrease, but they didn't drop below that epidural safety level but they were continually decreasing throughout my whole pregnancy. Meagan: Got it. I was curious. I'm always wondering what people with low platelets do if they do transfusions or not. Do you remember what the low number was, like the safety number?Hannah: Yeah, it kind of depends on the anesthesiologist, but for epidural specifically, they said anything below 100. I don't remember the units. It's like 100 something per milliliter or something like that. Anything below 100 would be considered not okay to have an epidural. Anything below 70 or 80 would risk people out of home birth which is another thing to consider. But yeah. Mine didn't drop below that level. It was 105 when I checked into the hospital. Meagan: Awesome. What's crazy is that less than 1% of people even have this condition. Hannah: Yeah, it's very rare. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. Well, good. So you're 105. You're getting good. You're clear to get an epidural. Hannah: Yep. I get my epidural right away when we get back there and essentially, I just nap. My husband was really confused. He was like, “Well, I thought I was going to be doing more. I'm just sitting here,” because I just napped with a peanut ball between my legs. I progressed very, very quickly especially for a first-time mom and around 9 centimeters, I had been stuck at 9 centimeters basically not really long, but longer than I was for how fast I was progressing. When my OB came in, she said, “If you want, we can break your water just to get you to that complete state so we can start pushing.” I was like, “Yeah, fine.” I didn't really know a difference so she broke my water and then I got to 10 really, really quickly but I labored down for quite a while just because my OB was back and forth between seeing patients in clinic and then coming to see me because she comes to your birth whether she's on call or not which is nice. I labored down for a while and then started doing practice pushes or whatever with the nurse. My epidural was so strong. I felt absolutely nothing. I didn't feel a sensation to push, an urge to push. I didn't feel pressure– absolutely nothing. Me trying to push was not effective whatsoever. I pushed for about 4 hours before we ended up opting for a C-section because my son was just coming down and then going back up, coming down and going back up and of course, I was in that semi-reclined, pretty much on my back position so gravity wasn't really helping me at all. He just was not coming out. The nurse and my doctor had mentioned, “We think he's asynclitic,” where his head was tilted to the side and he just wasn't coming out. I was just exhausted and annoyed so we opted to have the C-section. That was really shocking to me. I was a little thrown off because C-section was never on my radar. It's not something I really prepared for or thought about. I just thought, C-sections happen in emergencies. I was fine. My baby was fine. We were both stable and had no problems. It was just that I had been pushing for a long time so I felt really confused on why it was happening. But the hard part for me was once the C-section started is when things really took a bad turn for me emotionally and physically. My epidural like I mentioned was super, super strong, but when the C-section started, I could feel a lot. I felt a lot of pain, not just the pressure they had mentioned. I was really, really in pain. I had told my husband, “There's something wrong. I can feel way more than I believe I should be feeling.” He told the anesthesiologist and they gave me some additional medication. I don't know exactly what it was, but whatever they gave me, I fell asleep for a little bit. I wasn't under general but I dozed off. Meagan: Yeah, it made you sleepy. Hannah: Yeah. I don't remember when my son was born or meeting him or hearing him cry because I was just so out of it. When I woke up however long that was, time was just not in my mind at that moment, but I remember my husband saying, “Babe, it's a boy,” because we didn't know if we were having a boy or a girl. That's all I really remember from the OR itself. Then in recovery, in the recovery room, my blood pressure dropped. I was going hypotensive. I apparently had hemorrhaged more than they would have liked for a C-section which is understandable with low platelet counts so they were trying to get me stable because I was essentially on the verge of passing out. Everything was blurry and my main concern while all of this was happening was having my son breastfeed. I told my husband, “They're going to work on me. Just get him to nurse,” so he was holding my son to my chest so he could nurse while they were trying to stabilize me. It took them quite a while to get my blood pressure back up and to get everything fine, but thankfully, I didn't need any transfusions or anything like that. The whole postpartum experience, everything from C-section on was just really difficult to deal with and process at that point but that's kind of how everything ended up with that one. Then I knew from then on if I had any other kids, this can't happen again. I have to do something different. Meagan: Did they talk to you about anything like, “Okay, for your next birth, if you choose to have one, you can have a VBAC”? Did they counsel you at all after that? I'm always curious if providers do. Hannah: Yeah, so my OB specifically– I told her, I was like, “If I have more kids–”, because I had never heard the term VBAC. I didn't know that was a thing. I just thought, Oh, you can have a C-section but you can go on to have kids vaginally later. I didn't realize it was such a big deal until I started looking into it and asking around about it. At my postpartum appointment, I talked to my OB about it and she was like, “Well, yeah. That's fine. There are no issues with that. You would be a great candidate for it.” It was like, okay. That's what's going to happen if I have more kids. From postpartum on, I started researching. Meagan: Awesome. So what did you find in your research? Hannah: The first thing I did was look up obviously what VBAC was. I didn't really know then I started listening to podcasts and reading and reading book and listening to stories. I came across your guys' podcast which I honestly don't know how I found it. It was 5 weeks postpartum and I had never really listened to podcasts before. I found it and I found several others and started listening. Then one of the big things I looked at was, okay. What happened in my birth that potentially contributed to this? How can I avoid this in the future or make it a better experience? One of the big things was that I got my hospital notes and my op report and everything from when we were in the hospital just to understand fully what happened because they don't explain every single detail of what's happening to you unfortunately in most circumstances. So I wanted to see all of the notes and everything that happened down to the minute that was in my chart which really helped me understand what happened, process it, and heal that. Then for me, when I was looking at why I had my C-section and all of that, when I was looking at things about VBAC, it was like if these things happen to you like a failure to progress or the baby wouldn't come out like CPD, the cephalic pelvis disproportion, then the chance of you having a VBAC are not great. I was like, Well, that's discouraging. Then the more I got to the research, the more I realized that my birth specifically was likely a cascade of interventions starting with my epidural for me. That's how I personally feel. Some people would say that's not the case but that's how I personally feel. I knew going into my next pregnancy that I would do things drastically differently to set myself up for the best possible chances of having that VBAC. Meagan: Yeah. I love that. It sounds like you were starting in all of the right places. Hannah: Yep. Meagan: So baby number two– Hannah: Yeah. We decided. 8 months postpartum, I was like, “Let's have another baby.” I feel like with both my pregnancies and both my postpartum, around that time, I just get baby fever and then I am thankful that I don't get pregnant at that time. We got pregnant with my daughter about 20ish months after I had my son. That wasn't specifically chosen for VBAC intervals or anything like that. We just weren't ready to have another kid yet. So I got pregnant with her and I had interviewed doulas before we even conceived because in my area, they book up really, really fast, especially the more experienced ones. I specifically looked for a doula who had a lot of experience supporting VBAC. Then I also looked into different birth location options. I had first looked into a birth center and out-of-hospital birth center, but where I am in Indiana, it's illegal and against the law to have a VBAC in a free-standing birth center. I was upset about that at first, but then I looked into some home birth midwives as well as hospital providers. Home birth midwives– the only one I could find in my general close area was about two hours away and the ones who were closer to me wouldn't support a primary VBAC so if you had never had a vaginal birth either before your C-section or had a VBAC before, they wouldn't support you which was really discouraging. With how fast my labor progressed the first time around, I just didn't want to travel that far for appointments or having my midwife have to travel that far for the birth because you just never know how fast it's going to be. The thing about my first birth, my OB was amazing. She was not the type of OB who would try to coerce you to do anything. She was always very supportive of whatever I decided to do. She was very supportive of VBAC but I did also interview some hospital providers, some midwives, some other OBs and ultimately, I decided to stay with my OB because I felt really comfortable with her. I felt confident in her. She had no stipulations surrounding VBAC at all. The only other OB I did interview was an OB who would do vaginal breech birth because that's one thing my OB would not do and I was like, If I have a breech baby, I'm not having a C-section so I'll go to this other OB if that ends up being the case. Meagan: Okay, you're in Indiana.Hannah: The Indianapolis area. Meagan: Did you find it hard to find that provider? Hannah: Yes and no. Yes because he's the only one in our area who supports vaginal breech and no because my doula and a network of doulas who I converse with now all recommended him because they know that he's the only one in the area who would do it. Meagan: Do you care to share his name just in case we have someone breech listening? Hannah: Yes, so his name is Dr. James Webb and he's on the verge of retiring. Meagan: No! That's the problem. Hannah: Yeah. He is very particular about what hospitals he'll deliver at and all of that, but he is the only one currently in our area who will do it so if he doesn't happen to be retired at the time of this episode coming out, you can look into him as an option. Meagan: Yeah, awesome. That is the hardest part is we are seeing so many people who do supportive breech VBAC or just breech in general are retiring. They are closing doors and that's the hardest part. Okay, sorry. So you did an interview with him. Hannah: Yes. I had him as a backup just in case baby did end up being breech. Then my pregnancy again in general was fine. I had gestational thrombocytopenia again. I was not as sick the second time around which I was very, very thankful for. The only other weird things that came up were I was GBS+. I was negative for my first pregnancy and then I had a partial placenta previa at one point which at first concerned me but then once I realized that they usually resolve as your uterus grows, then I wasn't too concerned about ending up with another C-section because of that. I also, my baby was breech at one point. Meagan: Oh my goodness. Hannah: I know. I was like, All of the things that could happen did happen. But I didn't let it discourage me. I just kept going on and doing what I needed to do. The big difference in my preparation that I did the second time around because I knew for my VBAC I wanted to be as low intervention as possible. I knew I wanted to go unmedicated. I had my doula so I took a program called HypnoBabies which is a type of hypnobirth for those who may not know. It's a medical-grade hypnosis so I consistently practiced with that throughout my whole pregnancy. I did some breathwork and progressive relaxation videos and stuff like that to make sure I was really mentally prepared to go unmedicated because I feel like that aspect of birth is so much more mental than it is physical. That's where I really wanted to be prepared for that part. Meagan: Mhmm, nice job. Hypnobirthing is really common here in Utah. I wouldn't even say common but a favorite education course and we actually have a blog about it because so many people love it. It really can put you in such a great head space. Hannah: Yeah. I know it doesn't work for everyone, but what was more beneficial for me was that I didn't just go through the course in the last 6 weeks of pregnancy or something like that. I consistently practiced throughout my entire pregnancy to make sure it became a habit or something that I was normally used to doing. I did that primarily to prepare for birthing unmedicated and then I also did pelvic floor therapy to help with my C-section scar and my ability to push because pushing was such a difficult time for me the first time around. I really wanted to know what muscles to use and how to actively engage and push if I needed to. Meagan: Awesome. Hannah: I did a lot of different things to prepare the second time around. But then at the end of pregnancy, I did not get any cervical checks. I didn't get any sweeps because I knew it would just mess with my head space. It would discourage me if I was dilated or wasn't dilated and I knew that my dilation wouldn't determine when I was going into labor. I didn't schedule an induction either. I was just going to wait for my baby to come when they wanted to come and my OB was fine with that which was great. The only thing I did do was– I didn't have to end up doing this, but if I went past 41 weeks, I was going to get non-stress tests. But we were find waiting for things to happen. I went into labor spontaneously at 40+2 and– oh, I forgot to mention. Sorry, I'll back up. I did have a marginal cord insertion with this baby too so all of the things where the cord was on the side of the placenta instead of the center. The issue there could potentially be a lack of blood and nutrient flow to the baby which could cause growth issues. Meagan: IUGR, yeah. Hannah: We did monitor that a little bit more, but there were no issues with her growth or her percentile or anything like that so that was never a concern of her being too small or too big or anything like that. But I went into labor the morning of 40+2 and it didn't start how I expected or anything like my first labor. I had excessive bleeding and no contractions. I was really confused. I was like, Why am I bleeding so much? It was more blood than I felt comfortable with. A lot of times you have a bloody show or something like that with your mucus plug, but this was filling pads. I called my doula. I called my doctor and they were both like, “Yes, just go in.” My plan was to labor at home as long as possible, but because it started that way, I was like, Okay, I'm going to the hospital. Meagan: Mhmm, and the previa had completely resolved? Hannah: Yes. Yes. It was still low-lying, but it wasn't covering the cervix at all. With the amount of blood, I was like, Well, this is a little concerning. I did go into the hospital right away and went to triage because their main concern was a placental abruption with how much I was bleeding. Meagan: That's one of the things I was thinking too. Could it be a placenta thing? Hannah: They put the monitors on us. They checked everything and we were both fine. There were no issues. The bleeding ended up resolving and they couldn't exactly tell where it was coming from. At the time, I was about 4 centimeters dilated when we got to triage and I had planned because we were both fine, I was like, Well, I'm going to go back home then, but we had to stay to be monitored for about an hour just to make sure nothing else came up or things didn't take a turn or something like that. Within that hour, I had already began to dilate more. I was already 5 centimeters and at that time, I started feeling contractions so I decided, Okay, we'll just stay. We're already here. With the bleeding, I felt a little bit more concerned so we just stayed. I told my doula I would just text her and keep her updated. We got back to be admitted and because I was GBS+, I did choose to get the antibiotics. I got that round of antibiotics and then had them unhook the IV because I wanted to be as mobile and as free as possible. Thankfully, my hospital had wireless monitors so I was able to move around. I didn't have to tote around a monitor or be stuck to the bed or anything like that. After the antibiotics went through, I was going to lay down and listen to my Hypnobabies tracks and just rest because my contractions weren't intense or anything like that. I was super, super uncomfortable laying down. I needed to be up and moving. I tried and I was just annoyed with my headphones and annoyed with the tracks and everything. I was like, I need to be up and moving. At that point, I was getting ready to get up and my water broke on its own which was different for me because it did not break on its own with my previous birth. My water broke and again, I was around 5 or 6 centimeters at this time. It was definitely my water and they made sure. It was gushing out so it was definitely my water. After that point, I just felt like I needed to be on the toilet. I went to the bathroom and sat on the toilet and my husband got me cool washcloths and was wrapping my shoulders. I was just swaying back and forth on the toilet. Quickly, within 30 minutes, I was getting hot and sweaty. I was shaking. I was doing the horse-lip breathing and my doula wasn't there yet. I had texted her right before I went to the bathroom to tell her, “Things are getting more intense. You should probably head this way.” I hadn't been there more than 2 hours so she was like, “Okay, yes. Okay, things are picking up. I'll be on my way.” When I was on the toilet and I was starting to sweat and shake, I was clearly in transition. I knew that in my mind. My nurse knew that. My husband realized that. At that time, I was like, “I need an epidural.” I told my husband that and he was like, “But you're doing so well. Let's wait for Julie (my doula) to get there and see what she suggests.” I just felt like I couldn't do it. Then my nurse was really great about just leaving us alone and letting us do our thing. She came into the bathroom to check on us like I said about 30 minutes later. I told her, “I think I need an epidural.” At this time, I did not have an IV hooked up. She had mentioned, “Well, it's at least going to take 20 minutes to get the fluids in you to even be able to do an epidural.” She knew and she was clearly trying to stall me. Meagan: Yeah, I was going to say, I think that nurse knew something you didn't know. Hannah: Yes. Looking back in my mind, I knew but I was just in denial. I didn't really want the epidural but at that moment when you are in transition, you're just like, I can't do this. Two minutes later, my doula walks in and I told her the same thing, “I think I need the epidural.” She was like, “How long have you been on the toilet? Have you switched positions lately?” I said, “Well, now I've been here about 30-45 minutes.” She said, “Let's try getting in the shower and see if that just helps things ease up or change or whatever.” I was so reluctant to get off the toilet because I was so comfortable and in my zone but I did. I got in the shower and as soon as I stood up and got in the shower, I was bearing down and pushing. I was hanging onto my husband's neck and my doula was putting water on my back and the nurse heard me grunting and bearing down and she came in and was like, “Are you complete? We need to make sure you're complete just to make sure you're not pushing against a not complete cervix.” That was one of my concerns too. I was unmedicated so I felt the urge to push obviously, but I didn't want to be in that case where my cervix would swell or something like that. But I was complete and I had just a slight lip or whatever. My doula just suggested maybe we get on hands and knees to help relieve that lip or get in a different position to even everything out. I got on the bed and got on hands and knees. At this point, I'm just pushing. My body is pushing. I have no control over it. It's happening regardless of whether my cervix is complete or not. I was on hands and knees sitting on the back of the bed. My husband was cooling me down with washcloths and rubbing my back. My doula was doing the same and taking pictures and watching me push to see how baby's movement was. I pushed on hands and knees for about 10 minutes and again, my baby was coming down and coming back up and coming down and coming back up which was discouraging because that's what happened the last time. Then my doula said, “How about we try a squat to see if that helps with gravity working in getting your baby out?” I was so tired at this time. I was like, “There's no way I can hold myself up in a squat. This is not going to happen.” But we got the squat bar. I got in the squat. My doula and my husband were both supporting me. Within 5 minutes, probably two or three pushes, my baby was out. We didn't know again if it was a girl or a boy. She came out so fast and my doula was trying to get me to do the blow breathing to control and slow the pushing but I was not. I was like, “Get this baby out,” because I knew pushing was going to be the hard part for me to get past because it was four hours with my C-section baby. My doula knew that as well so she was trying to give me that extra support to make pushing a good experience. I let it fly and I was like, “Nope. This baby is coming out now. I don't care how fast she comes out. I don't care if I tear or whatever. I just need to get her out.” So she did. She came out and it was so funny because I had the squat bar and I was trying to pull her to my chest. My doula had even mentioned this in our prenatal prep. If you use the squat bar, the umbilical cord is still going to be attached so go under the bar and not over the bar. I tried to go over the bar of course. They were trying to get me all untangled and stuff but I was so happy she had come out that I didn't even look to see if she was a boy or a girl. I just forgot to check. She was a girl and we were so, so happy and so excited. I was just in disbelief that I had done it. It happened so fast that I didn't really have time to process what was happening. It was 4.5 hours total. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Hannah: Yeah. From the first contraction I felt– so not when the bleeding started, but from the first contractions I felt to when she was born was 4.5 hours. Meagan: Holy smokes. Hannah: Yeah, that's almost a precipitous birth and I don't know what just happened. It was just a rollercoaster and intense with no breaks whatsoever. But we were so excited. So excited. Meagan: I bet. Oh my gosh. When you said almost precipitous labor, to me, that is still very precipitous. 4 hours really from the start to the end, that is so fast. I have had a couple of clients like that. Sometimes I'm just like, “How does your cervix just do that?” Because from a mom who had a 42-hour long labor, it's like, what? We envy a lot of you precipitous birthers, however, I will point out that when precipitous birth happens, it's typically super intense. Hannah: Yes and you don't have a break. It's just constant intensity. Meagan: Yes. It's so hard because people have said, “Oh, I'd rather have a fast labor than a long labor.” It goes both ways. They want a fast labor, but I'm like, you have to know that it is very, very, very intense. It usually starts right out of the gate. When I say right out of the gate, I can picture a rodeo with a cowboy on a bull and the second the gate opens, the bull is just bucking, right? Hannah: Yes, because as soon as–Meagan: That is what reminds me of precipitous labor. Hannah: As soon as I felt contractions, I went from feeling nothing that morning to feeling like my whole body was contracting. It was just very intense so I don't know. I think both have their pros and cons, long labors and short labors. Meagan: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm glad. Precipitous labor for a first baby is common from what I have seen in the doula world of supporting hundreds of babies and lots of moms with precipitous labor. It is common to happen the next time. So even if you didn't have bleeding, you probably would have gone in sooner rather than later too. Hannah: Or I would have ended up with a car baby because if I hadn't been bleeding, I would not have gone to the hospital. I would have been fine. My plan was to labor at home as long as possible. Meagan: So you could have had a car baby or a front door baby. Hannah: Yeah, or just somewhere that is not in the hospital baby because it was too fast. Meagan: Yes. Oh my gosh. You are amazing and it is interesting. I'm so curious. Did the doctors say why they think that you developed low platelets? Do you have that normally? Hannah: No, I don't. Meagan: You said gestational so I'm like, She must be meaning just during pregnancy. Hannah: Yes. Some people have it in general without being pregnant. Other people develop it just when they are pregnant. They don't really know exactly why. I think there are things you can do to help that and help increase those platelet levels other than getting transfusions or whatever, but they didn't really know why. I mean, I'll be interested to see if I have a third to see if I have it again, but I think it's just what my body chooses to do. Meagan: Yeah. Interesting. Well, I'm so happy for you. Huge congratulations. Hannah: Thank you. Meagan: I don't know if you're going to have a third, but I assume you'll probably have a wild ride as well and you'll have to let us know how it goes if you decide in the future to have one. Hannah: Yeah. It will probably be the wildcard. Meagan: I know. You know, that does happen. I swear baby number three– in fact actually, it was my very first doula client that I attended. I was shadowing a birth doula because I was brand new and this mom had precipitous labors and baby number three took 15 hours. She was like, “No. No. No. Why is this happening? What is going on here? No.” The whole labor, she was like, “I don't like this. This keeps going.” So you never know. Baby number three also could be a labor wildcard. You never know. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story today. Hannah: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Today I finish my conversation with Charlotte. We talk about her next two births, one which involved an issue with the placenta, the second of which was a precipitous labor--contractions and birth within an hour--and how those experiences taught her to accept the help on offer from her community.

In today's episode we interview Matilda, a mum of three babies born at home and a midwife/nurse by trade. After Matilda finished her degree she worked inside hospitals and was a second midwife for women who gave birth at home. Once she fell pregnant she knew this was the way she wanted to give birth. After working within the system and seeing medicalised birth, Matilda talks about the vicarious trauma she had and how she worked through this during her pregnancies and births. Each of Matilda's three births unfolds as a unique narrative, showcasing the remarkable diversity and beauty inherent in the birthing process. From the evolving pace of her labors to the profound intuition guiding her every decision, Matilda's story underscores the transformative power of embracing the birth experience that resonates most deeply with each individual.Links:Place and Space in relation to Childbirth ResearchThe First Forty Days: The Essential Art of Nourishing the New Mother Hardcover - by Heng Ou Core & Floor Restore Birth Debrief Support the Show.@homebirthstoriesaustralia Support the show by buying us a coffee! Please be advised that this podcast may contain explicit language. Listener discretion is advised.The information, statistics, and research presented in this podcast are for informational purposes only and are not intended to constitute or replace medical or midwifery advice. All information discussed can be found online and is provided in the links in the show notes. It is always recommended to conduct your own research and make informed decisions. We advise you to discuss any topics or concerns with your healthcare provider. While we strive to incorporate the most up-to-date research in our episodes, we do not warrant or guarantee the accuracy of the information discussed on the show.

Cassi's first four birth stories can be heard here.  Links: Get your breast pump, lactation support, and maternity compression garments for free at aeroflowbreastpumps.com/birthhour and use promo code BIRTHHOUR15 at for 15% off supplies and accessories. Know Your Options Online Childbirth Course - use code 100OFF for $100 off Beyond the First Latch Course (comes free with KYO course) Support The Birth Hour via Patreon!

No returns allowed on this package...Let's talk about every EM physician's worst nightmare: vaginal delivery in the ED. It's rare, not fun, and definitely messy. Want to experience the greatest in board studying? Check out our interactive question bank podcast- the FIRST of its kind here. Cite this podcast as: Briggs, Blake; Wosiski-Kuhn, Marlena. 228. Precipitous delivery: free shipping included July 8th, 2024. Accessed [date].

In this Birth Story Friday episode of the MamasteFit Podcast, Monica shares her exhilarating experience of a precipitous VBAC that culminated in an unexpected car birth. Monica discusses her preparation for birth, the challenges she faced with unsupportive doctors, and the techniques she used to remain calm and confident. Despite a chaotic night marked by a storm, a stopped train, and a mad dash to the hospital, Monica's story ends with the safe and quick arrival of her baby in the parking lot of a Walmart. The hosts, Gina and Roxanne, also offer practical tips for handling fast labors and unexpected birth locations, emphasizing the importance of preparation.  00:00 Introduction to the MamasteFit Podcast 01:53 Monica's Birth Preparation Journey 03:59 Navigating the Final Weeks of Pregnancy 05:44 The Onset of Labor 06:14 The Unexpected Car Birth 18:27 Postpartum Reflections and Advice 25:42 Tips for Handling Fast Labors 32:55 Conclusion and Resources Pre-Order Training for Two on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3VOTdwH —— This podcast is sponsored by Needed, a nutrition company focused on optimal nourishment for your perinatal journey. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Use code MAMASTEPOD for 20% off your first order or three months of subscription.⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 

Midwife Charli sits down with former clients, Julia and Grant, as they tell the story of their experience with midwifery care and homebirth!  Hear them talk about their first two births in hospital based care, the meaningful parts of transitioning to midwifery care for their third baby, and how their homebirth experience, while surprising, was ultimately empowering and just as it was supposed to be. --- https://hearthandhomemidwifery.com 

You've probably heard a story or two of someone giving birth in 2-3 hours start to finish, but are they ACTUALLY telling the truth? Listen to Liz and Shaina discuss precipitous birth in this episode. Did this happen to you?? We invite you to email us, DM us on instagram, or find some other way to contact us and tell us your thoughts. For more information about us, our birth education businesses, and the classes we teach, visit our websites and instagram profiles: Shaina--virtual or in person birth and breastfeeding classes, lactation consults in LA Email: shaina@preparented.com ⁠instagram.com/preparented⁠ ⁠www.preparented.com⁠ Liz--virtual and in person birth and c-section classes in LA/Santa Monica Email: Liz@birthandbeyond.net ⁠instagram.com/birthnurseliz⁠ ⁠www.birthandbeyond.net⁠ --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/thebirthnurses/support

Join your host Sophia as she interviews Jen Santos for her third time on the podcast! This time she shares about her three home birth experiences. They discuss topics including ultrasounds, breech, unknown due date, back labor, torticollis, ECV, postpartum anxiety, PTSD, geriatric pregnancy, and precipitous birth. Dr. Jen Santos, DC, CACCP, is a second generation chiropractor. She received her first adjustment at 45 minutes old by her dad. Dr. Jen graduated from Life Chiropractic College West in 2013, with honors (Cum Laude) and received the prestigious “Clinical Excellence Award.” She is a full time chiropractor and owner of Acorn Chiropractic Club with 3 locations. Additionally, she is an adjunct professor at Life Chiropractic College West where she teaches obstetrics, gynecology, pediatric and prenatal adjusting, and pediatric pathology. Dr. Jen also periodically teaches pediatric and perinatal chiropractic seminars to students and chiropractors in her offices. And also teaches for the International Chiropractic Pediatric Association. Contact: Email: DrJen@AcornChiropracticClub FB Jen Santos IG @JenSantosDC Dr. Jen Santos Ultrasounds Dopplers EFM Concerns: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bornwild/episodes/85--Dr--Jen-Santos---Ultrasounds--Dopplers--EFM-Concerns-e20btg7 Jen Santos - Tongue and Lip Ties: https://anchor.fm/bornwild/episodes/62-Jen-Santos---Tongue-and-Lip-Ties-e1ne243 Jen Santos - Chiropractic and Dynamic Body Balancing: https://anchor.fm/bornwild/episodes/Chiropractic-and-Dynamic-Body-Balancing-with-Jen-Santos---S1E28-e19fk2u Listen here: IG: linktree in bio FB: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bornwild/episodes/109--Jen-Santos---Breech-Home-Birth--OP-Home-Birth--Precipitous-Home-Birth-e2khrr1 @sophiabirth @bayareahomebirth @bornwildmidwifery Stay Wild

In this episode Madeleine shares the 24+ hour unmedicated labor and birth of her first baby, follow by her second baby where she had a rather fast labor on Christmas Day. ____________________ If you enjoyed this episode please subscribe and share with your mama friends! wanna be on the podcast? https://www.whatthebumpclt.com/podcast connect with me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatthebumpclt our website / blog: www.whatthebumpclt.com --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/what-the-bump/support

Welcome to the April Q&A episode with Cynthia & Trisha. Today, we invite you to guess the two things that Cynthia and Trisha will never talk about on the podcast. Hint: They are not scandalous or controversial. Shoot us a DM with your guesses! Next, hear the most annoying habits from our podcast community regarding their partners. As for our questions this month, here we go:I had a pain-free breech vaginal birth. Why do some women experience pain at birth and others don't?My second baby was born precipitously at home. Should I plan for my third to be the same and when should I call the midwife?Does learning hypnobirthing techniques lead to a more peaceful birth experience?I have white-coat hypertension. Will this risk me out of a birth center birth and do I need to take aspirin in pregnancy?What percentage of women whose water breaks before labor begins will start labor within an hour or two?Are prenatal vitamins really necessary and if so, which ones?In our extended version of today's episode, we answer questions regarding breaking your tailbone in labor, whether you should tell your neighbors if you are planning a home birth, whether it's expected or appropriate to plan on feeding your home-birth midwives, and if it is necessary to be catheterized in labor if you can't void while in labor.In our quickie segment, we discuss the necessity or not of ovulation tracking apps, male versus female sperm, the midwives' brew, and how loud the music is in our cars while driving. Thank you as always for your wonderful questions! Please call in your question to 802-GET-DOWN or 802-438-3696. To get the extended version of today's episode (and all episodes 100% ad-free) just click the subscribe button on Apple podcasts or download the Patreon App and join any tier. **********Down to Birth is sponsored by:Vitality: An athleisure brand made for women, by women, designed with style and comfort for pregnancy and beyond. Davin & Adley-- The perfect nursing and pumping bra combinedSilverette Nursing Cups -- Soothe and heal sore nipples with 925 silver nursing cups.Postpartum Soothe -- Herbs and padsicles to heal and comfort.Needed -- Our favorite nutritional products to nourish yourself before, during, and after pregnancy.Use promo code: DOWNTOBIRTH for all of the above sponsors.DrinkLMNT -- Purchase LMNT with this unique link and receive a free 8-day supply. Be sure to use the unique link to buy yours today. Connect with us on Patreon for our exclusive content.Email Contact@DownToBirthShow.comInstagram @downtobirthshowCall us at 802-GET-DOWN Work with Cynthia: 203-952-7299 HypnoBirthingCT.com Work with Trisha: 734-649-6294 Please remember we don't provide medical advice. Speak to your licensed medical provider for all your healthcare matters.

Being the Authority in Your Birth ~ Audrey's Three Birth Stories ~ 1 Breech in Hospital, 1 Precipitous Homebirth w/ a Midwife, & 1 Freebirth Hi friends! Today we are graced by Audrey Ross from @ajoyfulbirth and her three incredible birth stories. I absolutely loved hearing her tell these stories because even though her first two birth were technically "in the system", Audrey embodied her power and trust in birth throughout these experiences. Her first, born breech in a hospital, then choosing a midwife assisted homebirth for her second, and with her third pregnancy realizing that she can do this all on her own without a provider. Audrey is a birthkeeper and Queen of birth memes. She is full of wisdom and trust in birth. So many gold nuggets to pick up from this conversation! I hope you all enjoy

America Out Loud PULSE with Dr. Peter & Ginger Breggin – We delve into America's abrupt decline, drawing parallels with personal bankruptcy: slow at first, then suddenly. As a confirmed Constitutionalist, we explore the orchestrated takedown of America, shedding light on global predation and its impacts. My insights aim to enlighten, offering a unique perspective on the crises we face, encouraging discourse and understanding in these turbulent times.

America Out Loud PULSE with Dr. Peter & Ginger Breggin – We delve into America's abrupt decline, drawing parallels with personal bankruptcy: slow at first, then suddenly. As a confirmed Constitutionalist, we explore the orchestrated takedown of America, shedding light on global predation and its impacts. My insights aim to enlighten, offering a unique perspective on the crises we face, encouraging discourse and understanding in these turbulent times.

In this episode Anna shares the (quick) birth story of her second baby girl! ____________________ If you enjoyed this episode please subscribe and share with your mama friends! wanna be on the podcast? https://www.whatthebumpclt.com/podcast  connect with me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatthebumpclt  our website / blog: www.whatthebumpclt.com --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/what-the-bump/support

Listen to the co-host of Natural Birth Talk Podcast, Rachel Mans, share her 3 amazing stories of planning for a natural birth in the hospital and then her precipitous homebirth.  Shoulder Dystocia is seen as one of the worst childbirth complications and often times it is blamed on a big baby or mother's pelvis. Rachel shares in today's episode how instinct helped her navigate this potentially life threatening complication.  Connect with Rachel: https://www.facebook.com/TheNaturalBirthSite https://www.instagram.com/thenaturalbirthsite/ https://www.thenaturalbirthsite.com/ Contact@thenaturalbirthsite.com RSVP to March's Woman's Circle ---> https://birth-bliss-beyond.ck.page/f3d39cab99   Click here to get your ticket for the Peaceful Homebirth Retreat    Grab your free 30 minute Birth Strategy Call   Save 10% off Araza Beauty when you use code "empoweredbirth"   Save 10% off The Wellness Company Products with code "PHB"        

Sponsor: Sleepybelly: Use the code THEBIRTHHOUR10 for 10% off your order at sleepybelly.co Enjoy free shipping and a 30-night money back guarantee! The Birth Hour Links: Know Your Options Online Childbirth Course (code 100OFF for $100 off) Beyond the First Latch Course (comes free with KYO course) Support The Birth Hour via Patreon!

Though the Lost Orders forced the Confederate commander to fight on unfavorable ground at Sharpsburg, he survived the bloody clash with his army intact.

Sponsors: Find peace of mind about your prenatal nutrition with the Genate Test by SNP Therapeutics. Learn more at genate.com and Use code BIRTHHOUR15 for 15% off your order. The Birth Hour Links: Know Your Options Online Childbirth Course (code 100OFF for $100 off) Beyond the First Latch Course (comes free with KYO course) Support The Birth Hour via Patreon!

When God Writes the Birth Plan ~ Mari's Sovereign Birth Stories Hi friends, welcome to The Birth & Rebirth Podcast. I'm your host Tiffany Holmes. In this week's episode, I invite Mari on to the podcast to share her incredible birth stories with us. I stumbled upon a clip of her most recent birth and was just in awe. I was moved by how raw and undisturbed the birth was... how embodied she was in her God-given power. And when I read in the comments that she had birth witnesses surrounding her ~ I was even more impressed that no one stepped in to disturb the sacred moments immediately post-birth. Time stood still for Mari, after she birthed her third baby - it took her 30 seconds to come back to reality and pick up her baby. Most people would have freaked out and disturbed this sacred moment, but Mari so carefully selected who she invited into her birth space - an OB turned Traditional Midwife who genuinely trusts birth. Mari's birth stories are proof that when you surrender to God's design of birth, incredible things happen. And also, that God writes the best birth plans. Mari says she never would've imagine giving birth outside of a hospital, yet she didn't have one baby in the hospital. She tells us about her first birth which was precipitous and happened in the car and her two beautiful homebirth stories. Enjoy! Connect with Mari on IG @humblymarij Hey mama - are you pregnant and dreaming of a natural birth but fear is taking over? Or maybe you had a traumatic birth that you haven't yet resolved? I got you! Let's work together so you can be more aligned with your dream birth. ~Fearless Mama Birth Coaching: ⁠https://sacred-womb-doula.com/doulaservices/p/fearless-mama-birth-coaching-package⁠ ~Birth Trauma Debriefing Session: ⁠https://sacred-womb-doula.com/doulaservices/p/birth-trauma-debriefing-session⁠ ~Healing Birth Wounds Journal: ⁠https://a.co/d/bPlnojh⁠ Let's be birth besties! Connect with me on IG: @sacredwomb.doula

Kristi shares with us how her planned homebirth turned very quickly into an unexpected freebirth! Follow Esmeralda on Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/birthsathome/⁠⁠⁠ My website: ⁠⁠⁠https://birthsathome.com/⁠⁠⁠ Join us on Patreon: ⁠https://patreon.com/birthsathome?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=join_link⁠ More links: ⁠⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/birthsathome⁠⁠

Welcome to the December Q&A episode with Cynthia and Trisha! Today, we begin with revealing your holiday traditions and difficult family challenges of the season. Additionally, we share our long-standing holiday traditions. Next, we dive into your questions beginning with:What are the signs of postpartum hemorrhage?Is failure to progress dangerous and what can you do to prevent it?Is it safe to use breastmilk to treat pink eye in a baby?Considering the danger of RSV, should I ask family members not to kiss the baby and if so, what should I say?In the extended version of today's episode, we discuss whether or not vaginal birth is possible when a woman has osteoporosis; whether or not a mother who has a history of precipitous birth should plan to be induced to avoid giving birth en route to the hospital; and is intentionally rupturing the bag of water a good idea to prevent having a precipitous birth at home?As always, we close with a round of quickies on topics such as weight gain in pregnancy, cervical lips, prenatal vitamins, must-have baby items, and more!Thank you as always for your fabulous questions and keep them coming by calling into our hotline at 802-438-3696.**********Down to Birth is sponsored by:Needed -- Optimal nutritional products for before, during and after pregnancyModern Nursery--Your one-stop shop for eco-friendly, stylish baby gearDrinkLMNT -- Purchase LMNT today and receive a free sample kit.Silverette Nursing Cups -- Soothe and heal sore nipples with 925 silver nursing cups.Postpartum Soothe -- Herbs and padsicles to heal and comfort. Connect with us on Patreon for our exclusive content.Email Contact@DownToBirthShow.comInstagram @downtobirthshowCall us at 802-GET-DOWN Work with Cynthia: 203-952-7299 HypnoBirthingCT.com Work with Trisha: 734-649-6294 Please remember we don't provide medical advice. Speak to your licensed medical provider for all your healthcare matters.

Shawn and Shawn and Troy struggle with the jokes, review the web, hear voices (and create voices), and more. Dave has the concepts and practices of science.    

Today we interviewed Alyssa Booth (Doula & Birth Educator) from Cherish Birth who shares with us her three birth stories. Alyssa gave birth to her first baby in the hospital system, where she experienced a positive induction where they broke her waters (PROM).  For her next two births, she birthed her babies quickly in the comfort of her own home. We also chat to Alyssa about the work that Better Births Illawarra have done to improve better facilities within the hospital as well as pushing for the expansion of midwifery-led care/continuity of care (MGP) within the region. We also discuss the Birth Trauma Inquiry that is currently running in NSW. Links for Alyssa:Alyssa - Cherish Birth Better Births Illawarra +  https://www.betterbirthsillawarra.org.au/submissionOther:The Nappy Collective Nurtured Village Hampers Australia Doula College Book - Birth Skills by Juju Sundin & Sarah Murdoch.Hyperemesis Australia - https://www.hyperemesisaustralia.org.au/, https://www.instagram.com/hyperemesisaustralia/?hl=enBirth Trauma Links:Inquiry Women's experiences of birth trauma: A scoping ReviewSubmission by PANDA Where to find help:PANDA Pink Elephant Beyond BlueDebby GouldSupport the show@homebirthstoriesaustralia Please be advised that this podcast may contain explicit language. Listener discretion is advised.The information, statistics, and research presented in this podcast are for informational purposes only and are not intended to constitute or replace medical or midwifery advice. All information discussed can be found online and is provided in the links in the show notes. It is always recommended to conduct your own research and make informed decisions. We advise you to discuss any topics or concerns with your healthcare provider. While we strive to incorporate the most up-to-date research in our episodes, we do not warrant or guarantee the accuracy of the information discussed on the show.

The chances of having vasa previa in a spontaneous pregnancy is about 1 in 2500. Our friend, Jessica, shares her experience with vasa previa during her first pregnancy which led to a scheduled Cesarean. While Jessica's Cesarean experience was difficult and traumatic, she knows it is what her intuition was telling her to do. Meagan gives important advice about listening to that intuition with every pregnancy.When the anatomy scan results showed that Jessica's second pregnancy was completely normal, she went all in to achieve the HBAC she deeply desired. Jessica didn't expect her birth to be so painfully intense and wildly fast as it was, but now she says that she “would love to do it again!” Additional LinksThe Lactation NetworkHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello, hello you guys. This is Meagan and today I am recording in a very different spot. Normally, I am in my office at my home, but today, I am recording from my car. We have our friend, Jessica, and she is from California. She is going to be sharing her HBAC story with you guys today. If you don't know what HBAC is, if you're new to all of the terms, it's a home birth after a Cesarean. She has a unique situation with her first C-section so I am excited to talk a little bit about that and have her share more information and then with her home birth, it was precipitous. Jessica, was it a planned home birth? Remind me, or was it so precipitous that it ended up being a home birth? Jessica: It was definitely planned. Meagan: Definitely planned. Review of the Week Meagan: She will be sharing that story but of course, we have a Review of the Week. This review is by Ashley and it's actually on our doula course. So birth workers, if you're listening, if you didn't know, we have a birth worker course to become certified in VBAC. It says, “TOLAC/VBAC should be treated just like any other birthing person, but there is a certain preparation and information that needs to be offered to them. Your course covered that. The value is held in your careful recognition of how best to support our client who is doing a TOLAC. I cannot praise you two enough for the fear-release activity. Honestly, it is something I can apply to even myself before and after birth and even in life in general. Thank you for that. It has already helped me with three of my VBAC clients.” That is so awesome. That is one of the biggest things we do in our course. We do a fear release. If you didn't know, listeners, a fear release is so impactful really processing your past births and working through any trauma. Even if you don't recognize it as trauma, it may resonate as trauma so working through those fear-release activities is super amazing. Jessica's Stories Meagan: Cute Jessica, thanks for joining me from my car today. I kind of had a crazy day where my husband got thrown into coaching another team and we had soccer tryouts. As we are recording right now, it's actually May so we are in the thick of soccer tryouts and all of the chaos of the last week of school. I ended up being at the soccer field so that's why I am coming from my car. So yeah, Jessica, I'd love to turn the time over to you to share your beautiful story. Jessica: Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited. I'll just get to it. Basically, I got pregnant with my first son and he was due in July of 2020, well actually, the beginning of August. He was a COVID baby. My husband didn't get to go to any appointments with me. But that was supposed to be at a birth center. I watched The Business of Being Born. I got down that rabbit hole. We decided we wanted to be at a birth center. Everything was fine, then I had my anatomy scan and they found vasa previa. I had never heard of it. I never really even considered something being– you know, you worry about something being wrong with your baby. You never think about you having something wrong. So we were very shocked and all I remember was the sonographer saying, “It's detrimental to your baby.” That was very devastating because I had no idea what that meant. I had to wait to get a referral to see a specialist. It was, I think, 4-6 weeks away. In that timeframe, I had to basically just sit and wait and not know what was going to happen. I joined a Facebook group, did research in the meantime, and I realized, “Holy crap. This is a big deal.” I went to the specialist and they said, “Yeah. You have vasa previa but it could still move.” I left with no answers. It didn't feel any better hearing that. So basically vasa previa is you know, you have your placenta and your umbilical cord. It was explained to me that typically with a placenta and an umbilical cord, the umbilical cord is like a tree trunk. But when you have vasa previa, it's like tree roots. So basically it's an unprotected umbilical cord and vessels that could potentially be ruptured with a vaginal birth. Meagan: Yeah. They're very exposed. Jessica: Yes. Very exposed. I did also learn that I had a velamentous cord insertion which goes hand-in-hand I think. So yeah. Basically, the moral of the story was that it was a big deal on how I was going to birth this baby even more so because his life was at risk. I eventually saw three doctors at the same practice just for follow-ups. They eventually cleared me for vaginal birth. You think that you would be super excited about that, but everything that I was reading was saying that it has to move a big amount for it to be safe. The vessels could still rupture and all of that stuff. So then I got two second opinions at different practices. They also cleared me. I don't know. Everything that I was reading, I was reading different stories on this Facebook group. I just felt in my gut that I needed to still have a C-section. That is not what I wanted. I still stayed with the specialist because I was still considered a high-risk pregnancy. She said that I could deliver vaginally, but I told her, “I feel like I would feel safer doing a C-section.” She said, “Okay, but we are going to wait until 39 weeks.” With vasa previa, you deliver much earlier than that just because they don't want your body to go into labor at all. Basically, that whole pregnancy was full of anxiety and fear. I was worried every single time I went to the bathroom. I was worried there was going to be all of this blood. I felt invalidated and like I was silly for still wanting a C-section by this doctor. Yeah. It was really hard and then my husband couldn't even be at the appointments to hear what was being said. So yeah, it was really hard. Meagan: Yeah. That is a really hard thing to hear. Especially when you are not even planning on giving birth in a hospital. It's like, “So wait, wait, wait. I have to completely shift all gears.” But what I love was that your intuition was like, “I need a C-section. This is what I feel is best for me and my baby.” You followed that. That is so important. One of the messages here at The VBAC Link is that we strive to say that we don't shame anyone for having a C-section. We know that they are happening a lot, but especially when your gut is saying, “This is what I should do,” we have to follow that. Women of Strength, we have to follow that. Jessica: Yep. Yep. So ultimately, yeah. I followed my gut and I'm really glad that I did. The nurse who was by my side in the C-section said that she had never seen a placenta like mine. The doctor, of course, said that it looked normal, but every person that I've shown, and some of them are birth workers, are just like, “Wow, yeah. I've never seen a placenta like that.” I had a ton of exposed, very fragile-looking vessels. I don't know where they were in my belly, but still, they were very fragile-looking. I feel like I made the right decision. My doctor said that it was normal, but I don't think that it was. Meagan: Was your baby IUGR at all with the velamentous cord on top of it? Jessica: No. Meagan: Okay, sounds good. Let me just– there are lots of abbreviations in this episode. IUGR is intrauterine growth restriction and that can be a baby that is being restricted of growth. Sometimes with a velamentous cord, a baby can be on the smaller side or have growth restrictions so it's awesome that your baby didn't. Jessica: Yeah, he was 7 pounds, 3 ounces at 39 weeks. Yeah. I mean, it was a fine C-section. Nothing eventful happened, but it was still traumatic being strapped. I wasn't even strapped down. My arms weren't, but still, the experience was. I didn't get to hold my baby for an hour and when I did, I was super shaky. I was nervous to hold him.I looked up at the monitors and I feel like my blood pressure was super low at one point. I thought I was dying. It did not feel great. It was traumatic for us. I know that trauma looks different for everybody, so for us, the whole experience was traumatic. My doctor did say, “You know, I'm giving you this incision so that if you do have another baby, you can have a VBAC.” It was always in my head that when we did have another baby, it would be a VBAC. Jessica: So yeah. Fast forward to April 2022, my husband and I were trying and I got pregnant. It was kind of a surprise but kind of not. I toyed with the idea of possibly giving birth in a hospital, but it was for a very short while like maybe five minutes, then I was like, “No. I think I need to do a home birth this time.” Just because of our experience at the hospital, I don't know. I didn't want to have to fight to have a vaginal birth. I didn't want to be held to the hospital policies and whatnot. I follow a lot of birthworkers and see physiological birth and whatnot so we just decided to have a home birth. We found our midwife and she was a midwife. She's been a midwife for 46 years so had lots of experience. She's had lots of VBAC babies and it was just really exciting. It felt right to book her as our midwife. I had her, I think, from 9 weeks on and nothing exciting happened in my pregnancy. I was nervous about the anatomy scan, but they did a very thorough check and I could have cried hearing the news. I was just very confident knowing that the placenta was good, the umbilical cord looked good, and all of that. We went on to have an uneventful pregnancy. I would say from 37 weeks on, I would have cramping and whatnot. I always had Braxton Hicks from 15 weeks on, but around 37 weeks, it changed to that more period-like cramping. I tried not to read into it. I was just like, “This is my body preparing.” There were a couple of times where I was like, “Oh my gosh. Is this happening?” I was listening to lots of podcasts and birth stories and stuff to just kind of prepare myself for every scenario. I think I went to my midwife at an appointment the day before I turned 40 weeks. I was toying with the idea of getting checked or not because I didn't want to be disappointed or get my hopes up. Ultimately, we– I keep saying we. My husband was a big part of this. I decided to get checked and I think I was a 2 and 70% effaced or something. I was in the right direction but I also knew, “Okay, that doesn't really mean anything. It could be a week.” But they did want to schedule me for a membrane sweep the following week just in case because you can't give birth at home past 42 weeks. I really did not want to do that, but I also really wanted to have the baby at home. I was just really anxious. Now I felt like I was on a timeline. My due date came and went. I was disappointed. I knew that it's totally normal for your baby to not come at or before 40 weeks, but you have that hope that maybe they will. Your body is starting to have all of these symptoms so you're hoping that this is it. My midwife had said, “Make plans because babies like to come when you have plans. They don't like it when you're waiting around for them.” Meagan: I love that. Jessica: Yeah. I tried to get out of the house and then one day, I was like, “Okay, do you know what? We have to go do something.” I planned for me and my toddler to go to the aquarium. We had to buy tickets. The day after my due date, I lost some of my mucus plug so I was very excited about that. Two days after my due date, I listened to Bridget Teyler. She has an induction meditation on YouTube. I just did it because when my husband was putting my toddler to bed, that was my time to get in the zone, drink my red raspberry tea, and prepare for birth. I just did it because it was something to do. I didn't expect it to work. I thought, “You know, if nothing else, I'm bonding with my baby.” It was really great. The next day, I woke up and I was pregnant still. My mucus plug still kept coming out. It was pink and I was like, “Oh, is this my bloody show?” but my midwives were like, “No, that's still your mucus plug.” I was kind of disappointed about that. I talked to my husband about all of the anxiety and how people were wondering where the baby was and all of that stuff. We had a steak dinner that night. That was the meal that I envisioned that I would have before I went into labor. That was 40 weeks and 3 days. The next day, at 40 weeks and 4 days, I woke up still pregnant with no signs. I was emotional about it but that was the day I was supposed to take my son to the aquarium. We get ready and we're driving. On the way there, I'm starting to get cramps every four to every 30 minutes. They were 30 seconds long. I was like, “Oh my gosh. What the heck?” We get to the aquarium and my son wants me to hold him. Meanwhile, I'm having these contractions. I'm just like, “Oh my gosh. I wasn't timing them because obviously, I had my hands full.” We ate at the aquarium and I remember feeling dizzy and nauseous at one point. But then we went home and my toddler fell asleep in the car which is pretty rare. That means it's going to be a short nap, so I was like, “Oh if he takes a short nap, he's going to go to bed earlier. Maybe this is meant to be. Maybe if I go into labor tonight, this is meant to be.” I had always envisioned that I would give birth at home while my toddler was sleeping just because he's a very sensitive little guy. I figured that my being in labor would scare him. So I was just like, “Oh my gosh. He's going to go to bed earlier than normal.” I got home and my husband got home from work. I was like, “I'm going to go rest and lay down to try and take a nap in case.” I couldn't sleep, but I did lay in bed for an hour and a half. I went downstairs. I tried to make dinner and I kept having to stop and lean on the counter. My husband was like, “Do I need to turn the lights down? You're going inward.” I'm like, “No, I'm not.” I was in total denial. He eventually took over because I was just like, “Yeah, I'm trying to cut raw chicken here and I'm not feeling too hot.” They still were pretty inconsistent. I still hadn't really been timing them. They were probably every 4-20 minutes for 30 seconds. So then we ate. I think I ate on my birth ball and then I texted my doula who was also a student-midwife with my midwife. I saw her at every appointment which was pretty convenient. She was just like, “You know, don't really worry about timing them. Just try and rest. Eat some snacks and let me know when they pick up in intensity.” It was 6:00 PM and I was just waiting for bedtime because I knew that once my toddler went to bed, I could really focus and not have to hide that I was in labor. But I still don't think I realized how far along I was. So we did the bedtime routine. I do want to note that I was leaning over on a pillow and my toddler was rubbing my back and saying, “Baby brother, I help you.” It was the sweetest thing. Meagan: Aw, that's adorable. Jessica: Yeah. So finally put him in bed and I told my husband, “Maybe you should just go to sleep with him just in case. Well, I don't know. I'll text you.” I didn't know if he should go to bed or if he should come downstairs and act as my doula. So he was putting my toddler to sleep. I tried to get in the bath. I could not get comfortable. Our bathtub is so tiny and they were definitely picking up in intensity. I just could not get comfortable. That didn't last long. I texted my doula and told her, “I feel like they're on top of each other, my contractions, but they're not quite a minute long.” I think I texted her, “I've had four in a matter of five minutes, but they're short.” She was just like, “Try different positions. Maybe try a shower.” At that point, I had already gone downstairs to try something else. I could not find a comfortable position. So my husband texted me, “What's the situation?” I don't know. All I said was, “Come.” Yeah. I was just like, “Come,” because it was just so uncomfortable. I could not find a comfortable position. I could see him on the monitor because we already had the monitor set up but he was just lying in bed taking his time. I'm like, “What is this man doing?” He did not realize how intense things had gotten. He came downstairs and we tried different positions– laying down on my side and on all fours on the couch, on the ball, and I just couldn't get comfortable. So after 15 or 20 minutes of him trying to help me, I had him text the doula. She got over there around 8:30 and she was helpful with having me take sips of water and giving us ideas for different positions. She tried doing the Spinning Babies side-lying release and that was unbearable, but we did it. Then she had me move to the ball. Actually, I think while we were on the couch and I was lying down doing the side-lying release, I felt something come out. I had a diaper on at this point because I just kept having bloody show. I was like, “Something just came out. What was that? What was that?” It kind of felt like I pooped but it was out of my vagina, so I was just like, “Was that the baby? What just happened?” She looked and it was my bag of water, but it was still intact. It looked like a boob implant to me. Meagan: Yeah, like it was bulging out of you. Jessica: Yeah, but it came out in a bulge, so that was wild. So that was cool. I knew that because she was the student midwife, she would be the one to tell the midwives to come. We weren't even worried about that. She was timing contractions, but I had no idea how fast they were coming. I said at one point, “Why are they coming so frequently?” She was like, “Well, you're in active labor.”Then we moved to the ball and that was unbearable. I felt him move down which was so wild and then I had a birth pool. It was already blown up, but we hadn't even added water or anything. I was like, “Should we start setting that up?” My husband went and got the pool and tried to start putting water in it and whatnot. I was like, “I feel like I need to move to the couch,” so I did. I got on all fours and I had pillows up by my face. It was just so intense. I just remember thinking, “I'm never doing this again.” I asked my husband, “Whose idea was this?” meaning to have another baby and to do it vaginally because I was like, “This is awful.” It was so painful. Then you know, I just stayed in that position. I knew that once I was in that position, there was no way that I was going to be able to move. My husband was setting the pool up for no reason because I was like, “I don't know how I'm going to make it in that pool.”I think one of the midwives showed up around 9:30ish. At that point, I was having the fetal ejection reflex. I was making these guttural noises. You hear about what that feels like and how you just can't control it and it's so true. I felt like when you feel like you have to puke and you puke uncontrollably. It felt like that in my vagina. The noise I was making was totally uncontrollable. There were some intense sounds. The midwife showed up and before I knew it, she was saying, “You're going to feel the ring of fire.” My husband, in hindsight, was like, “I thought she was just saying that. Of course, she's going to feel the ring of fire.” He didn't realize she was saying it because the baby was crowning. He was up by my head holding my hand and stuff. Finally, he realized that the baby's head was coming out. My baby's head popped out and then you heard a tiny little cry, but then it went back in. She had me get in the runner's lunge to try and help him out. I think I pushed maybe three times. She had to remind me to breathe because the fetal ejection reflex was taking over. I just couldn't stop having that feeling to push, so she reminded me to breathe. He came out. He was born at 9:58 so I had, I guess, 12 hours of labor, but I think active labor probably started around 4:00 or 6:00. Again, I'm not really sure because we weren't really timing contractions. He was 8 pounds, 7 ounces. Yeah. It was insane but in the best way. It was so empowering. I couldn't believe that I had done that. One of my affirmation cards was like, “You're a badass for having an HBAC.” My husband was just like, “Yeah. You're a badass. I can't believe you just did that.” Yeah. It was just wild. So amazing. Meagan: Absolutely. I'm sure it was very different for him, too just with the whole situation. “Okay, I'm going to set up the birth pool. She's telling me to come but I'm going to take my time.” It's just a very different experience. Then he's like, “Okay, wow. We're in labor. Let's go.” Then it's like, “Yeah, of course she's going to feel that. Oh, you mean that now she's going to feel that.” Jessica: Yeah, I think neither of us knew how far along I was and how quickly things were progressing. It just happened so fast. Meagan: Yeah. I want to talk about this too because sometimes we get diagnosed with failure to progress. We get to 3 or 4 centimeters and we're told that we'll likely never progress and whatever, then we go to have a C-section. Then we fear having a VBAC sometimes because we are like, “Well, maybe we won't progress past what we've progressed.” But a cool factor about your story is that you never even went into labor, right? You had never even dilated or gone through that whole process. This whole birth, this whole HBAC was essentially like you're a first-time mom. Your cervix was doing this the first time.When we've already progressed in maybe previous labor, that's an even greater chance of a VBAC. You went in and your body did exactly what it needed to do to get this baby out even though you hadn't had any labor previously. Jessica: Yep. Meagan: Pretty cool. Jessica: Yeah. I was very excited to see how it was all going to unfold. Meagan: Mhmm. Well, it sounds like it unfolded beautifully. Now you've got two cute babes and a beautiful home birth under your belt. So now– you were explaining that you were like, “Wow. Why did we do this? Why did we choose to get pregnant? Why did we choose to give birth vaginally?” After it is all said and done, are you like, “Yeah. I would do it again. I'm super happy we did it”?Jessica: Yeah. I actually want to do it again just because it was amazing. At the moment, yeah, it felt like the most painful thing of my life, but after that baby's out and you do it, it's like, “Wow. I did that. I am capable. My body isn't broken. Just because this happened one time doesn't mean it's going to happen again.” It was very empowering. Yeah. It was just amazing. I would love to do it again. Meagan: I love that. Well, huge congrats. Huge, huge congrats. I want to talk a little bit more about vasa previa because I don't think we've had anyone on the podcast who have actually had that before. Usually reasons for a Cesarean– we talked about this before we started recording– are “big baby”, small pelvis, failure to progress, or breech. We don't see these because it is really, really rare. It actually only occurs in 1 in every 2500 deliveries. I don't know if you said anything about IVF but it's more common in IVF which is about 1 in 200 but even then, it's a pretty rare chance. It can happen randomly or if IVF was going on, there is definitely a chance that it could increase your chances. Did you do any IVF at all or was it a spontaneous pregnancy? Jessica: It was spontaneous. I didn't have any of the risk factors for vasa previa so it was totally random. Meagan: Totally random. You were just one of the really rare cases, but it worked out really well. Jessica: Mhmm, it did. Meagan: Well, thank you so much for sharing your stories with us today. Jessica: Thank you for having me. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Links This episode is sponsored by Kindred Bravely. Use code BIRTHHOUR15 for 15% off your first purchase at kindredbravely.com Support The Birth Hour via Patreon! Know Your Options Online Childbirth Course - Use Code 100OFF for $100 off Beyond the First Latch Course

Today we chat to Bibi who shares her experiences of working as a midwife in Australia. After falling pregnant with her first child, Bibi's dream of a homebirth came to a halt due to the diagnosis of fibroids. Bibi talks us through the moment that she discovered Freebirth, which set her on the path to birth her first baby at home the way she wanted. After having a positive, painless and quick birth of her first child, she decided that she would Freebirth her Twins in the comfort of her own home. Bibi's InstagramLinks:Australia Mother's and babies report Optimal timing of delivery based on the risk of stillbirth and infant death associated with each additional week of expectant management in multiple pregnancies: a national Cohort study of KoreansPositive Birth Australia - Twin BirthSupport the show@homebirthstoriesaustralia Please be advised that this podcast may contain explicit language. Listener discretion is advised.The information, statistics, and research presented in this podcast are for informational purposes only and are not intended to constitute or replace medical or midwifery advice. All information discussed can be found online and is provided in the links in the show notes. It is always recommended to conduct your own research and make informed decisions. We advise you to discuss any topics or concerns with your healthcare provider. While we strive to incorporate the most up-to-date research in our episodes, we do not warrant or guarantee the accuracy of the information discussed on the show.

Links: Cozy Earth provided an exclusive offer for our listener's today. Up to 40% off site wide when you use the code BIRTHHOUR. Know Your Options Online Childbirth Course Beyond the First Latch Course (comes free with KYO course) Support The Birth Hour via Patreon!

In this episode, we're joined by Brownyn (she/her). Bronwyn is the host of @the.motherwhelm podcast and lives in the Blue Mountains with her husband and three children. Her first birth was a classic case of the cascade of intervention, from an induction due to gestational hypertension, to an emergency cesarean due to ‘failure to progress'. This experience left Bronwyn feeling humiliated and disempowered, and she suffered from postnatal anxiety during her postpartum. For her second birth, she hired a private midwife and doula for a home birth after cesarean, but when she went into preterm labour at 36 weeks right before NSW restrictions lifted in 2021, she had to present to hospital without her support team. Despite all her plans being flipped on their head, Bronwyn was able to achieve her much desired VBAC in a fast and furious labour. For her third birth, Bronwyn planned to have her 2VBAC at home with a PPM and doula. While she did get her glorious HBAC this time, it was again without her birth team because her daughter arrived with great haste and was BBA. This was by far her best birth yet! Bronwyn is also one of the hosts of @australianvbacstories and you can listen the full version of her birth stories here. Follow our instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@definitelybabypodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠for photos of weekly guests and episode updates and releases. The Definitely Baby theme music was written by Hagan Mathews and produced at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@sleeplessfootscray⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The photo in the podcast logo was taken by ⁠⁠⁠⁠@maki.levine⁠⁠⁠⁠. This episode was recorded on Ngurra (Country) of the Gundungurra and Dharug Peoples and the Wurundjeri Wilam and Boon Wurrung/Bunurong peoples of the Kulin Nation. Australia always was and always will be the land of the First Peoples. Every month, I Pay The Rent and so can you - click⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠to learn more.

Last time we spoke about the end to the battle over Vella Lavella, the continued offensive against Finschhafen and some special operations. The Naval battle of Vella Lavella saw the last fight over the island and another successful evacuation. Over on New Guinea the fight for the Finschhafen area continued to rage on, but ultimately was crashing to a bit of a halt for the allies as they moved cautiously and awaited further reinforcements before taking the the fight to places like sattelberg. Then we spoke about some special operations to explode mines against enemy ships at Singapore harbor, a new network of coastwatchers 2.0 and the Japanese finally cracking down on poor little Portuguese held Macau. Some ships were blown up, some unfortunate souls were captured in Aitape and the Japanese basically made Macau a protectorate.  This episode is on to Shaggy Ridge Welcome to the Pacific War Podcast Week by Week, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about world war two? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on world war two and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel you can find a few videos all the way from the Opium Wars of the 1800's until the end of the Pacific War in 1945.    The Japanese had once entered the Southwest Pacific as conquerors, rapidly grabbed forward bases in places like New Britain, New Guinea and the Southern Solomon Islands. Yet now in 1943, they were being pushed back, their resources were shrinking and their troops morale was crashing. With the allies becoming stronger with each passing day, General Imamura and Admiral Kusaka had very little hope of emerging victorious in the coming battles. All either man could do was prepare the best possible defenses they could and hope for a miracle to delay the allied advance. General Nakai's forces prepared to make a stand on the Finisterre range and General Katagiri prepared a counterattack against Finschhafen.  Over in New Guinea, General Vasey's men were continuing their fight against Nakai in the Finisterre Range. Since their advance on October 9th, Colonel Bishop's 2/27th battalion had dug in on Trevor's ridge and John's Knoll. Just after dawn on October 10th, a small enemy force charged up Trevor's ridge. The small attack was beaten back, the battalions diarist wrote of the action “Tojo startled the early morning air with his usual heathen chorus, known to so many as a prelude to an attack; however, 13 Platoon showed him the error of his ways by killing two and wounding one of the six noisy intruders.” Meanwhile the bulk of the 2nd battalion, 78th regiment had pulled back to a place known as Shaggy Ridge which dominated the area around it. Shaggy Ridge stood 5600 feet tall with only a single track going along its ridge line. Lachlan Grant would describe the track "had places. . . only wide enough for one man to pass with sheer drops on either side". The Japanese had concentrated along the Faria river area seeking to unleash another counter attack. They just received reinforcements in the form of the 1st battalion, 78th regiment. Company 3 were sent to Gurumbu, Company 4 to Boganon, Companies 1 and 2 went to help out the 2nd battalion while one company began to attack Australian supply lines at Pallier's hill. During the afternoon two Japanese artillery pieces began to open fire from the Faria river area at very close range. The first shell passed close to the top of Trevor's Ridge, causing native carriers to freak out and disperse while the shell exploded thousands of yards father on. By 2pm Bombardier Leggo acting as F.O.O noticed the gun flash and launched a counter battery against it using a 25 pounder at a range of around 8000 yards. He successfully silence the mountains guns for awhile. The Japanese guns would fire later that afternoon at nearly point blank range, hitting the battalions area causing 8 casualties, but Leggo once again silence the guns. Meanwhile, Brigadier Dougherty ordered his 2/14th to hold a position at Kumbarum to support Bishop's advance while Brigadier Eather ordered his 2/33rd battalion to mop up the Japanese out of the Boganon mountain area. The 2/3rd quickly advanced up a track going 4100 feet high into the Boganon mountains. At 5pm Kittyhawks strafed the Japanese positions at the crest of a ridge and a Boomerang dropped a message on the advancing men that told them the Japanese were in foxholes and trenches immediately over looking them. During the aerial attacks the Japanese tried to fire back using machine gun and rifles, but doing so apparently they did not see a forward company of the 2/33rd closing in on them. The 2/33rd crept up the ridge under the cover of darkness as the Japanese were unaware too busy during daylight hours focusing on the Kittyhawks. During the night the Australians surprise attacked the Japanese sending them into a flight, man men at first ran then got themselves together trying to fight but by that time the momentum was on the side of the Australians who soon seized the ridge. On October 10th, Vasey ordered his forces to patrol extensively. The 2/7th was patrolling the Kesawai area; the 2/2nd concentrating in the Faita area; the 2/16th went west of Bebei and the 2/27th patrolled around Trevor's ridge towards the faria river. The 2/27th skirmished with the enemy who were defending their artillery positions. To the east of the Faria and Uria Rivers the 2/33rd were patrolling past the feature they just captured. Their patrols ran into ambushes and were forced to pull back. On October 11th, Japanese raiding parties attacked a supply line going between the 2/14th and 2/27th battalions forcing the former to send a platoon to seize Palliers Hill. A platoon of the 2/14th led by Lt Pallier. The were only able to advance up the hill in a single fill as most of it was to steep. At around 5 pm men atop the nearby Kings Hill supported them with artillery, mortars and machine guns. The support was so strong, Palliers platoon made it up the first mound without opposition. Upon the mound Pallier deployed a Bren gun and 2 inch mortars. Palliers men were surprised at the lack of enemy fire and rapidly made their way up Pallier's Hill. As they got closer to the summit artillery stopped, leaving just mortars and machine gun fire support. The hill began even steeper and when they got within 20 yards of the Japanese their support fire ceased. The Japanese were about a company in strength and began firing everything they had. During the mayhem at a critical moment many Japanese raised their heads from their weapon pits and rolled grenades down on the Australians 20 feet below. Most of them rolled too far down doing no damage. The Australians began tossing their own grenades as they charged forward driving the enemy out. Lt Palliers platoon had attacked a Japanese company well entrenched in a seemingly impregnable position routing them it was outstanding. Despite the heavy support getting up the hill, the Japanese should have easily held their positions. Pallier lost 3 men dead and 5 wounded including himself while they killed an estimated 30 Japanese and captured vital ground to keep their supply line running. The capture of Palliers hill was of a great relief to Dougherty who watched the thing personally. Had the supply line been cut longer the 2/27th may have run out of ammunition and rations. Back over in the Finschhafen area, Brigadier Windeyer now realized he needed to seize Sattelberg in order to secure his gains. General Yamada continued his attacks against the most forward Australian position at Jivevaneng. At 6:15am on October the first the Japanese cut the telephone lines to the Australians forward positions and began probing their lines with attacks. The Japanese were driven off with 2 and 3 inch mortars while the Australians cautiously made their way up the Sattelberg road. They were about at quarter mile from their objective when the leading platoons leader, Lt Dost was shot dead. Lt Richardson took another platoon forward to investigate and was wounded by gunfire. By this point the defensive lines had repulsed numerous attacks. Both sides were taking heavy casualties, but the Japanese were failing to stop the advance. Still the 2/43rd were forced to dig in around 400 yards from their besieged company.  After the technical fall of Finschhafen, Windeyer assigned most of his brigade to defend the southern portion of it while the 2/17th advance north to capture Kumawa. Windeyer was realizing the dual tasks were simply too much for his meager forces but luckily for him, Generals Herring and Wootten held a meeting at Lae on September 30th, where they decided to reinforce him with General Heavy's brigade. General Heavy's men would secure Finschhafen and then perform an offensive against Sio. On October 1st General Blamey decided the time had come to give Herring a rest, he appointed Lt General Leslie Morseheads 2nd corps to take over the New Guinea offensives. On October 7th, Morshead arrived at Dobodura, Herring departed for Port Moresby and then Australia, he would never return to the front lines. It was supposed to be General Iven Mackay that would relieve Herring, but he ran into squabbles with General douglas macarthur over reinforcements for Finschhafen. The junior officers felt Mackay should have forced the issue and enlisted Blamey for help, but ultimately both were set aside for Lt General Sir Leslie Morshead. Prior, Mackay had convinced Blamey, that Herring was becoming increasingly difficult to work with as a result of stress and fatigue which led to Herrings relief. Blamey maintained his faith in Herring who would retain command of the 1st corps on the Atherton Tableland, where he could train his men in amphibious warfare for the next operation, but Herring's period of active service was over. Herring had given able service in a high appointment through a year of fierce campaigning, he quite simply could use the rest. Herring assumed he would come back to relieve Morshead, but in February of 1944 he would be appointed Chief justice of the supreme court of Victoria instead. Back over at the front, the Australian commanders decided it was necessary to capture the Tami islands. The 2/32nd battalion departed Lae on October 2nd arriving off Wonam island. Major Mollard took command of the battalion and received another company called the “Denness Force” consisting of a rader detachment, pioneers, mortars, signals and a section of 6 .50 caliber machine guns, 2 LCMS and 14 LCV's from the 52nd EBSR. When the men landed on Wonam island, they were greeted by 4 friendly natives waving their arms. An interpreter spoke to the natives who told him there were no Japanese on the islands. Then the natives took a few of the men with some paddling canoes around Kalal and Wonam islands showing them no Japanese. The natives were then rounded up, 74 in all and asked to help establish a radar station on Kalal. The natives had very little food because of the terror of bombers and strafers in the area, they had actually been living in some caves and dug out coral instead of their huts. Apparently they were treated very well and helped the work effort. It's not said that often, but native populations made a huge difference in the pacific war. You keep hearing me say “native carriers” and such, war was literally thrust onto these people, most of whom were just going about their peaceful lives. The Japanese often showed brutality, its not as if it was 100%, but statistically the Americans or Australians in the Pacific were much more known to be favored by the natives, particularly in New Guinea.  Now the following day, the 2/17th departed Kolem on a extremely difficult route ironically named Easy Street, haha thinking of Negan from walking dead. Easy street went towards Kiasawa and then Kumawa. David Dexter described it as  "It was so steep and muddy that, on one occasion, two tractors were attached to one jeep but all were bogged." The Australians were surprised to see no enemy attacks against Jivevaneng at this time. The 2/43rd attempted an attack at 5:45 pm led by Lt Combe's company. The Australians tried desperately to attack well-dug in enemy positions along a route the enemy knew better than them. Soon the company became pinned down and casualties were mounting. Combe was wounded when his Owen was shot out of his hand, he assessed the situation, 17 casualties with 6 deaths, so he ordered the men to pull back. The 2/43rd by this point had a total of 47 casualties, with 14 deaths and 5 missing. The 2/43rd had failed to break again, thus the decision was made to have their forces evacuated.   To the north, the 2nd battalion, 80th regiment had burst into the scene, advancing through Wareo and Gurika. Fearing the Japanese threat to Scarlet Beach, the 2/3rd pioneers and 2/2nd machine gun companies were sent to contain the threat. By this time the 2/17th battalion had just reached Easy Street junction. Windeyer wanted them to hit Kumawa as it seemed one of the most likely places the Japanese would have retreated to from Finschhafen. However he also knew the new threat required additional forces so he divided the 2/17th into two groups. Two companies led by Major Pike and Captain Sheldon detached and formed a separate HQ under Major Maclarn to stop the Japanese from attacking Scarlet Beach, while Colonel Simpson led the remainder to Kumawa. On October 4th, suddenly the enemy eased up on both fronts. The surrounded company of the 2/43rd took the opportunity to break out to the east. Patrols began reporting that the Japanese had also withdrawn, so the bulk of the 2/43rd gradually moved to reoccupy Jivevaneng.  Meanwhile Maclarn's 2/17th detachment attempted their first attack against the enemy. Maclarn sent two platoons north of the Song River who quickly found themselves in a firefight with the enemy. They were forced to withdraw, then at 11:30am an LCV came over the Song drawing fire from the Japanese, allowing Maclarn to pinpoint exactly where the enemy was. At 2:15 Maclarn sent a platoon to make contact with the Japanese again, followed up at 5pm with Pike's company. The Japanese were hit with an artillery bombardment as Pike's company single file advanced to an assembly position around North Hill. The next day North Hill's area was seized and just as the Australians had managed to encircle the enemy's position, scouts reported they had abandoned it. It seemed to the Australians that the Japanese had withdrawn into the mountains again. In truth General Yamada was preparing a counterattack. As for General Katagiri by late September he had ordered his 2nd battalion, 79th regiment to advance through a native inland path avoiding the coastal roads over some western hills that led to Sattelberg. The battalion arrived at Boringboneng by October 7th, while the rest of the division got to Sattelberg by October 11th. With the reinforcements on hand, Katagiri planned a major counterattack aimed at Arndt point, due for mid October.    Meanwhile on October 5th, the 2/17th successfully seized Kumawa after fighting a small engagement against an enemy post in the village. The 2/15th were quickly directed to relieve them at Kumawa, as the 2/17th began to see continuous counterattacks. Simpsons 2/17th were being hit from northeast, west and south. His position was too thin leading to a large danger of encirclement. The Japanese performed numerous infiltrating attacks, trying to break his lines of communications and to add to Simpsons misery, the supply of ammunition and rations being carried by natives along a track were being delayed heavily by torrential rain. The native carriers were likewise in danger of enemy fire, it seemed evident the Japanese were quite alarmed at losing Kumawa.   On October the 6th, Yamada's 3rd battalion, 80th regiment successfully severed the communications between the company and her HQ by taking a position on a track between them. For 3 hours the Japanese made several assaults on Kumawa, until 1pm when the track was reopened and a telephone line was quickly relaid. The Japanese continued their harassment, but then the 2/15th arrived turned the tide against them. The men were low on supplies as the heavy rain made it impossible for jeeps to advance up the track to Kamawa. Since the 5th of october the 2/17th had been eating meager amounts, by the 8th they had nothing left. Windeyer felt because of the lack of supplies he had to halt the advance of the 2/17th and 2/15th.  The 2/17th Battalion diarist, describing the defense of Kumawa, wrote: "The enemy caused us no trouble… but our stomachs did." Colonel Grace likewise turned down an offer by Windeyer to arrange an air drop because he believed that the Japanese did not yet know of his men's presence in Kumawa. This would lose him the chance of intercepting any belated parties moving towards Sattelberg along the track from Tirimoro.    On October 9th, Maclarn decided to capture a vital feature in front of Jiveveneng known as the “knoll”, to improve his tactical position, I guess they just ran out of names or something.  Maclarn opened up the attack with artillery, as Sheldon's company performing an encirclement maneuver led by Papuan scouts to sneak platoons 10 yards from the Japanese positions. Suddenly at 11:10am the forward platoons unleashed fire on the Japanese and charged their outposts. As the men charged the Knoll itself, only a single Japanese would be seen as countless had fled, leaving 9 dead. By 1pm Sheldon's company were digging in on the knoll where they had found 60 Japanese foxholes. The Japanese launched a counter attack, began with a bugle call and the usual screams as the charged within 5 yards of the Australians new defensive positions. Grenades were rolled down the knoll and automatic fire kept them at bay until the Japanese finally backed off. At 6:45 the Japanese attempted a second counter attack, this time as a full company, but they were likewise repulsed. The next day saw more Japanese counter attacks against the Knoll, the defending Australians reported hearing them scream “ya”, to which they screamed it back at them. Apparently they also screamed Ho, so the Australians screamed Ho back. The Japanese were also sending many patrols to search for viable approaches for the upcoming counteroffensive while they awaited reinforcements and supplies. The Australians noted the considerable enemy movement, believing a large number of Japanese reinforcements were due to arrive from the north.    Back over at Lae, General Wootten's HQ and the 24th brigade had finally begun their departure for Finschhafen. When Wootten landed, he decided to reorganize his forces to gain control of the approaches to Wareo and Sattelberg, hoping to also provide an opening to launch an offensive against Sio. He divided the Finschhafen area into 3 sectors of responsibility. The 24th brigade would defend the Scarlet beach area; the 20th brigade would perform an offensive against Sattelberg and the 22nd battalion would defend the Dreger Harbor area. On October 11th, the 2/17th finally re-secured Jivevaneng and on the 12th, Wootten sent Captain Gore with C Company of the Papuan battalion to perform a large scale deep patrol looking into the Wareo-Sattelberg-Mararuo area. On the 13th, the 2/15th hit back at the Japanese west of Kumawa. At 9am they began a fire fight about 150 yards apart using machine guns mostly. Casualties were high for both sides, but Sergeant Else kept the forward platoons advancing, refusing to allow his forces t obe pinned down. The Japanese had 39 deaths before they began fleeing, the Australians suffered 5 deaths and 30 casualties. For the next two days things seemed to be relatively quiet, but it was to be the calm before the storm, as Katagiri earmarked October 16th for his counteroffensive. Wootten knew something was on its way and was greatly relieved to see the arrival of the 2/28th and 2/32nd battalions on October 15th. However he was also quite bitter about the lack of cooperation between the Australians and Americans which he believed prevented them from quickly reinforcing Finschhafen. By the 15th, Wootten had 2/rd of his division in the area and a signal from Morshead informed him that General HQ had ordered the 26th brigade from Lae to Finschhafen at 30 hours notice. It was heartening news, but it also contrasted strongly with the protracted negotiations allowing for the 2/43rd to go to Scarlet Beach by the end of September. It was also indicative of the gravity of the situation; various commanders had learnt brutal lessons. The Japanese were given a chance to seize the initiative. General Mackay would write to Blamey on October the 20th  “Through not being able to reinforce quickly the enemy has been given time to recover and we have not been able to exploit our original success. Through the piecemeal arrival of reinforcements the momentum of the attack has not been maintained. As was proved in the Lae operations the provision of adequate forces at the right place and time is both the quickest and most economical course.” Windeyer received orders to coordinate the defense of the Langemak bay and "hold important ground at all costs". He was to perform a defense in depth, maintain a mobile reserve, organize coastwatching stations and beach defenses. Wootten went to work ordered forces to put up positions on track junctions in the Bonga area, North Hill, all of the high ground going two miles west of Scarlet Beach through Jivevaneng, Kumawa, Tirimoro, Butaweng, Logaweng and for the 532nd EBSR base at Dreger Harbour. The allies were preparing for a major storm. Over at the Finisterres, on October 11th, General Morshead had just flown in for the first time to Dumpu where he told Vasey that because of “administrative limitation” there could be no further advance into the mountains for the time being. The day morning, Colonel Bishop's 2/27th over at Trevors ridge were hit by Japanese mountain guns. At 10:45 the 2nd battalion, 78th regiment launched an assault against their position. The attack was supported by 5 Woodpeckers, those are being the Japanese type 92 heavy machine gun, alongside two mountain guns, mortars and light machine guns. Trevor's ridge and Johns knoll got the full bombardment treatment, then the Japanese charged tossing grenades with fixed bayonets overrunning the Australian positions on the lower early slope. However this lower slope could be hit hard from the crest above, so the Japanese soon found themselves in a mayhem of fire and were dislodged quickly. After the vicious attack, Bishop sent reinforcements to John's Knoll allowing the lost positions to be regained. 4 more attacks would be launched during the early afternoon at a great cost to the Japanese. Bishops men repulsed them all, but he began to worry about his ammunition situation. In the forward areas, he had only two Vickers guns and a 3 inch mortar. The Vickers were being used to counter the Japanese heavy machine gun fire, and the mortar only had 18 bombs left, placed up on Johns knoll. When the enemy had reached within 20 yards of the Australians positions during the first assault, Sergeant Eddy rushed forward to direct 12 mortar bombs upon the enemy causing absolute havoc, winning the day. With ammunition running low and no sign of an supply train coming, Bishop wondered if the next attack would beat them off their high ground. Bishops men went to work searching the dead Japanese. Teams were collecting ammunition from the dead enemy, from the HQ and from units of Trevor's ridge, rushing it all to Johns knoll. The positions on John's knoll was obviously dangerous and the men all knew they likely would have to pull out if no supply train came. To relieve the pressure on John's Knoll, Bishop sent two platoons to launch a counter attack against the enemys right and left flanks. Lt Paine's platoon took the right and Lt Trenerry the left. Paines men were climbing 20 yards up a razor back when the saw the enemy and began firing. Paine recalled "things got a bit sticky so we withdrew down the hill a little then made our way back to the end of the razor-back'. Pains men withdrew a bit, but continued to harass the enemy, who greeted them by rolling grenades down the razorback. To the left, Trennerys men cautiously moved around the rear of the Japanese forward troops attacking Johns Knoll and launched a 16 grenade attack killing many. In the confusion and terror the Japanese dispersed running straight into Australian gunfire. With just 5 men Trenerry had cleared a track to Johns koll while 5 other of his men cleared another track in the opposite direction. Trenerry would report   "Both groups clearing the track ran backwards and forwards shooting at opportune targets,". Private Blacker had killed 5 Japanese shooting his Bren from the hip; Private May killed 4 Japanese before taking a hit himself and most of the men on average killed two Japanese each. Trennerry's men would come back to Johns knoll estimating they had killed 24 Japanese with small arms and a bunch with grenades.   During the late afternoon, a company of the 2/27th also advanced northeast of John's Knolls who could hear the platoon counter attacks. At 5:30 upon hearing heavy fire from some high ground east of Johns knoll they launched an attack and quickly overran a woodpecker position. Lt Cook leading the company would write “I met Mac and he gave me all he knew so I pushed forward to contact the enemy. I handed 5 Platoon over to Sergeant Underwood, commonly known as "Underpants". The laps were expecting us for they opened up with their Woodpecker and did they whistle but the boys kept pushing on. I sent Sergeant Yandell round on the right flank while a section from B Company and Corporal Fitzgerald's went around on the left; well, Lum's [Yandell's] section on the right did a wonderful job and made it possible to wipe out the Woodpecker. The boys must have killed 20 or more Japs on the first knoll and by the way they bawled you would think they were killing a hundred of them. We continued on along the ridge for another 100 yards when 3 LMGs opened up on us and inflicted our first casualties, 2 killed, 4 wounded. One of the killed was Dean who had done a fine job killing several Japs while firing his Bren from the hip as he advanced. At about this time I found [a young soldier] of B Company alongside me so asked him what would win the Goodwood whereupon he told me not to be so bloody silly, it was no time to talk about races. Well, we had to shift these gunners so Lum kept moving his section forward on the right flank and two of the gunners got out while the other covered them. Then Lum volunteered to go over the top after the remaining one himself so I slipped up behind him to give him covering fire, but as Lum went over the top the Japs cleared off into the kunai”. By nightfall the enemy attacks ceased, the allies had not yielded an inch of ground.   A supply train came at midnight to the great relief of the defenders. Hunkering down the way he did, Bishop had won a notable battle. The 2/27th lost 7 men dead and 28 wounded, but estimated they had killed 190 Japanese. More importantly the Australians refused to be pushed from their vantage points. The Japanese would continue their attacks on Trevor's ridge with their Woodpecker from a new position just above the plateau across the Faria. Thus the defenders hard work was not over, Brigadier Dougherty decided to relieve the exhausted 2/27th with the 2/16th. After the fierce fight at John's Knoll, the Japanese had pulled back to the Shaggy ridge line, that ran in front of the Kankirei saddle. It was here General Nakai was determined to make his last stand. Additionally, back on October the 9th, the first echelon of Admiral Mori's forces had at last reached Kiari. Men who performed the march recalled  “the track deteriorated and was ‘only passable on bare feet without any heavy packs' and some simple scaffolding had been set up by the engineers to help the troops pass. The cold increased as the group climbed higher and the ‘Precipitous cliffs continued, one after another.' More men began to die from the cold and from losing their footing. This was at the head of the Sanem River valley where there was a sheer drop on one side of the track and a sheer rock face about 90 meters high on the other. The final climb to the summit was made over a muddy one-man track where the line came to a stop and the men sat with their legs dangling over the edge of the track”. The men took 4 days of rest before they would march onwards for Sio.   For 10 days, General Nakano's forces continued their retreat to Kiari. Local natives had been enlisted to help carry the food and medical supplies that landed at Kairi up to the troops moving down the coast. Originally 20 landing craft were supposed to help move the food from Madang, but they were being used for troops transport following the Australian landing at Finschhafen. The Japanese began setting up a series of food caches in villages seeing tonnes of rice carried and placed in key positions. The 4th echelon reached Kiari on October 18th, 33 days after they had departed Lae. From the original 6600 IJA and 2050 IJN forces that left Lae, a total of 6544 men, 5001 IJA and 1543 IJN had survived the retreat across the Saruwaged range, arriving safely to the coast. It was clear, General Blamey's earlier assessment that “a few of the enemy remnants will escape the hardship of the mountain tracks” was very wrong. Now thats all we have for Green hell today, for we are going to be jumping back over to the CBI theater next.   Now there had been considerable developments in the global war for the allies. The Japanese were gradually being pushed back in the southwest pacific; The Kingdom of Italy signed the armistice of Cassibile, as allied forces were occupying Sicily soon to hit Italy proper and Germany was about to lose Ukraine. The tide had distinctly turned against the Axis. In the China theater, the 7th war area of General Sun Lianzhong had dispersed into the fertile plains of Hunan province. The commander of the China expeditionary army, General Hta Shunroku deemed it necessary to perform a crushing blow against him. He ordered General Yokoyama to advance upon the Changde area, where Sun had his HQ.Yokoyama concentrated his 5 divisions, the 39th, 58th, 3rd, 116th and 68th divisions of the 11th army, along the Yangtze river area between Yichang and Yueyang by late October. Once his forces had concentrated enough on the left bank of the Yangtze, Yokoyama planned out an offensive set to launch on November 2nd. Defending the Changde area was  the 6th war zones 10th, 26th, 29th, 33rd army groups as well as some riverine units and two other corps, making a total of 14 corps in all. It was going to be a brutal offensive aimed not at actually capturing the city of Chande, but rather tying up the NRA to reduce its combat ability in the immediate region and to thwart it from reinforcing the Burma theater.   Over in Indie the horrible Bengal famine of 1943 had kicked off. Back in March of 1942, after the Japanese began their occupation of Rangoon, a major consequence was the severing of routine exports, such as Burmese rice to India and Ceylon. In June the Bengal government established price controls for rice and on July 1st fixed prices were at a level considerably lower than the prevailing market price. The fixed low prices thus made sellers reluctant to sell leading to stocks disappearing, getting stored or being sold on the black market. In mid October, south-west Bengal was hit by a series of natural disasters that destabilized the price more, causing another rushed scramble for rice, boosting the Calcutta black market. On March 11th, the provincial government rescinded its price controls, resulting in dramatic rises in the price of rice, due partly to speculations. This caused a massive period of inflation between March and May of 1943. May saw the first reports of death by starvation in Bengal. The government tried to re-establish public confidence by insisting that the crisis was all being caused by speculation and hoarding, but their propaganda failed to dispel the public's belief there was in fact a shortage of rice. The Bengal government never formally declared a state of famine, even though the “Famine Code” would have mandated a sizable increase in aid. The unrest gave fuel to the Free India Movement, led by Subhas Chandra Bose and many troops would have to be diverted from Burma to help maintain the order. Bose made his famous proclamation “give me blood! I will give you freedom!” as he assumed leadership over the reformed INA on July 4th of 1943. The new INA 1st division under Major General Mohammed Zaman Kiani had drawn many Indian POW's who had previously joined Mohan Singh's first INA. They also drew POW's who had not joined in 1942. Their new force consisted of the 2nd Guerrilla regiment known as “the Gandhi brigade” which consisted of two battalions under Colonel Inayat Kiani; the 3rd Guerrilla regiment known as “the Azad brigade” consisting of three battalions under Colonel Gulzara Singh and the 4th Guerrillas known as the “Nehru Brigade” lead by Lt Colonel Gurubaksh Singh Dhillon. The 1st Guerrilla regiment “Subhas brigade” was led by Colonel Shah Nawaz Khan and was an independent unit consisting of 3 infantry battalions. Special operations group “Bahadur group” were operating behind enemy lines. There was also a separate all female unit created under Captain Lakshmi Swaminathan. This unit was intended to have combat commitments. They were named Rani of Jhansi regiment after the legendary rebel Queen Lakshmibai of the 1857 rebellion. Their member swerve drawn from female civilian populations from Malaya and Burma.   The reformed INA were reinvigorated and causing a lot of mayhem. The Indian government responded with a scorched earth policy to deny foodstuffs to the Japanese and Free Indian army who might try to invade India. They established a Foodstuffs scheme to manage the distribution of good, ensuring that those in high priority roles such as civil servants, police and the armed forces received top priority. A second “boat denial policy” was also implemented. Under this policy the army confiscated approximately 45,000 rural boats, severely disrupting riverbourne movement of labor, supplies and food. This cost the livelihoods of boatmen and fishermen.  Leonard G. Pinnell, a British civil servant who headed the Bengal government's Department of Civil Supplies, told the Famine Commission that the policy "completely broke the economy of the fishing class". Transport was generally unavailable to carry seed and equipment to distant fields or rice to the market hubs. Artisans and other groups who relied on boat transport to carry goods to market were offered no recompense; neither were rice growers nor the network of migratory laborers. The large-scale removal or destruction of rural boats caused a near-complete breakdown of the existing transport and administration infrastructure and market system for movement of rice paddy. No steps were taken to provide for the maintenance or repair of the confiscated boats, and many fishermen were unable to return to their trade. The Army took no steps to distribute food rations to make up for the interruption of supplies.   Meanwhile military build ups cause massive displacement of Bengalis from their homes and farmlands which were used to construct airstrips and camps. Nearly the entire output of India's cloth, leather, silk and wool industries were sold off to the military, leaving the rural population to suffer through a “cloth famine”.  President of the Ramakrishna Mission in Bombay July 1943 would report  "The robbing of graveyards for clothes, disrobing of men and women in out of way places for clothes ... and minor riotings here and there have been reported. Stray news has also come that women have committed suicide for want of cloth ... Thousands of men and women ... cannot go out to attend their usual work outside for want of a piece of cloth to wrap round their loins"   The Bengali population suffered tremendously. With the arrival of 500,000 or more Burmese refugees, bringing hungry mouths, and diseases like dysentery, malaria, smallpox, cholera, needing food, clothes, medical aid and other resources, this stressed Bengali past its max. Despite all of this, Bengal continued to export rice to Ceylon for months, even after the famine was apparent. To make matters worse, local rice crops were becoming infected with brown spot disease and on October 16th, Bengal was hit by a massive cyclone. This resulted in the deaths of 14,500 and 190,000 cattle. The cyclone unleashed 3 Tsunami's which overwhelmed the sea walls and flooded 450 square miles adding more misery to 2.5 million people.  Bose went to work exploiting the crisis, backed enthusiastically by the Japanese to established the Azad Hind Provisional Government of Free India at Singapore in October. The first INA was roughly 40,000 troops strong, the reformed 2nd INA would begin with 12,000 troops, and as a result of Boses dynamic appeal would peak to around 100,000 volunteers and combatants at around 50,000. Bose would say "Local civilians joined the INA, doubling its strength. They included barristers, traders and plantation workers, as well as Khudabadi Sindhi Swarankars who were working as shop keepers; many had no military experience." It is also estimated, 20,000 Malayan Indians and another 20,000 ex-Indian army member volunteered for the INA. In the end, an estimated 2.1-3.8 Bengalis died out of a population of 60.2 million. They died of starvation, malaria and diseases brought on from malnutrition, population displacement and lack of health care. In the man-made famines aftermath, millions would be left impoverished and the social fabric had been torn to shreds. Nearly 1.6 million families disintegrated, men sold their farms and left home to work or join the Indian army. Women and children became homeless, traveling to larger cities in search of relief. It was a vicious cycle of death that would help bolster the Indian independence movement. I would like to take this time to remind you all that this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Please go subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry after that, give my personal channel a look over at The Pacific War Channel at Youtube, it would mean a lot to me. The battle for Sattelberg was about to begin and so was the battle for Changde. Within India a horrible man made famine led to tremendous devastation and in turn this helped bolster Subhas Chandra Bose's Indian National Army. Japan was given a rare chance to obtain a powerful ally.  

If your labor and delivery is three hours or less, it's called precipitous labor. And while the thought of having a short labor may sound appealing, there are also concerns. What triggers precipitous labor within the body? Can you slow it down? And what are the potential risks for both mom and baby? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Part 2 of this conversation with Sarah Sayed talks about the guilt around precipitous birth, erasure of women in birth stories, societal views of birth, and exercising as a parent..Connect with Sarah:—Follow Sarah on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/saysarahnow/ and check out her art https://www.instagram.com/drawdemic/ —Kensington Midwives: https://kensingtonmidwives.ca/.Connect with Surabhi:—Find Surabhi on Instagram or Facebook @thepassionatephysio—Website: https://www.thepassionatephysio.ca

This week's episode features Sarah Sayed who unexpectedly had a precipitous birth (which is a fast and short labour) while she was at home and ended up birthing her baby boy on her couch! It's such an incredible story. Tune in to hear all about Sarah's birth story, how she gave birth, alongside her husband, in her living room..We discuss —Midwifery → 0:04:55—Precipitous Birth—Genetics Role in Precipitous Labour and Births—Informed Consent—Birth Expectations—Postpartum—Co-sleeping—Returning to Exercise After Birth.Connect with Sarah:Sarah is an artist, a mom with ADHD, a pull-up enthusiast, and currently a fingerprint technician for the RCMP. —Follow Sarah on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/saysarahnow/ and check out her art https://www.instagram.com/drawdemic/ —Kensington Midwives: https://kensingtonmidwives.ca/.Connect with Surabhi:—Find Surabhi on Instagram or Facebook @thepassionatephysio—Website: https://www.thepassionatephysio.ca

After finding wonderfully supportive midwives who were willing to deliver a breech baby at home, Jaime was sure that her first delivery would be peaceful and empowering. Things quickly turned traumatic, however, when she developed a fever and was rushed to the hospital where she was treated poorly and sent straight to the OR.It took seven years for Jaime to finally get to a peaceful place where she felt ready to birth again. Jaime shares her different approaches to this birth and how she found the courage to prepare for another home birth. Jaime was able to stay grounded, present, and in control during her labor and delivery, allowing her to achieve the beautiful HBAC she desired!Additional LinksBirthing From Within by Pam England and Rob HorowitzReclaiming Childbirth as a Rite of Passage by Rachel ReedHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsThe VBAC Link Facebook CommunityFull Transcript under Episode DetailsMeagan: Hello, Women of Strength. It is another day for another amazing story. We have our friend, Jaime, here and she is from Nashville, Tennessee so if you are from Nashville, Tennessee, you're going to want to listen up. I know that people have been wanting to know where some of our listeners are coming from because they are looking for providers and hospitals and all of the things like that in their area. So today is coming from Tennessee. She had kind of a traumatic birth which a lot of us do and then was able to set a good path and redeem her story with a VBAC. We are so excited to be sharing this story with you guys today from Jaime but of course, we have a Review of the Week. We could never go without sharing one of these amazing reviews, you guys. Review of the WeekThis is from Apple Podcasts and it's from erind39. The subject is, “Planning Second VBAC with Confidence.” It says, “I am planning my second VBAC in July and I'm so happy that this podcast is back.” This was actually left in 2022 so last year when we came back. That was awesome. It says, “The VBAC Link is a great resource for anyone considering a VBAC. The stories are empowering and the data presented is affirming. I feel like I am so well-prepared for my second VBAC and have this podcast to thank.”Erin, thank you. We have you to thank for leaving this amazing review and if you guys haven't had a chance, drop a review for us. We love them. We absolutely love them. We read them on the podcast. We have our amazing crew that drops them into this amazing spreadsheet. I see them and seriously with some of these reviews, I bawl. They are so long and so detailed and so amazing. I get chills and I bawl. So thank you, all for leaving your reviews. Jaime's StoriesMeagan: Okay, Jaime. Welcome to the show. Jaime: Thank you for having me. Meagan: Thank you. I am excited for you to share your stories and talk more about– well, we're going to talk more about your story but not get discouraged along the way. So let's talk about it. Tell us where it all began. Jaime: Yeah, so Eloise is my first daughter who is now 7. We have a very large gap between kids but Eloise's birth was like you said, pretty traumatic for me in a lot of different ways. We wanted to do a home birth with her which off the bat, I'm just a crazy person for wanting to do a home birth. We were in Michigan at the time. I was pretty gung-ho about it. I felt very prepared. Maybe midway through my pregnancy, she ended up being breech. There were a lot of things that we tried to do to get her to flip. I spent a lot of time and energy worrying that she was a breech baby and what I was going to do. My midwives were like, “If you're comfortable doing a breech, we're comfortable doing a breech.” Meagan: Oh wow. That's amazing. This is in Michigan. Jaime: Yeah, it was. It was in Michigan. So they literally handed me their midwifery books which are three inches thick, two of them. They were like, “Read this section.” So they had me read everything about breech birth in their midwifery books. I feel like I'm still overeducated on breech birth just from doing that. Meagan: Yeah, that's amazing actually, though that you had that opportunity. Jaime: Yeah, so they were like, “After you read this if you're comfortable doing a breech birth, we're comfortable doing it too.” I read through everything and I was like, “Yeah, okay. This feels good.” It was. She was born in 2016 and it's crazy to say this, but the information we have available today was not like what it was back in 2016. Just having those books, I didn't have any other resources to really go to for breech birth or home birth or anything like that. But yeah. So I was comfortable doing it. I knew from reading if one single thing went wrong, that I was going to be going to the hospital. That was the midwifery thing. Typically, you've got multiple chances in a regular, normal pregnancy but with breech, it was one thing. So I go into labor. We had thought she flipped, but then I had my waters break and then it was all meconium. I was like, “Umm, I think she is still breech.” From there, I was kind of freaking out. I ended up getting a fever and one of the assistants walked in and she was like, “How are you feeling?” I'm like, “I feel awful. I just feel sick. I have chills. I don't feel normal. This doesn't feel good.” Her jaw hit the floor. I'm like, “Oh no. What did I say?” She took my temperature immediately and she was like, “You've got a fever.” They tried to get it down. They gave me one hour to get it reduced to a normal temperature and it wouldn't. I knew right away that we were going to the hospital. We ended up in the hospital. Michigan isn't very friendly when it comes to home births and midwives. I know everyone's been working on that relationship between hospitals and midwives, but Michigan at the time had no cooperation. So we just had a really bad experience. We are there. The doctor at one point is like, “You're going to be put under,” when the whole time, everyone else was telling me I was going to be awake. Then he comes in– I basically said, “I would like to hold my baby. I would like skin-to-skin as soon as possible.” Then he's like, “Well, that's not possible.” I'm like, “What do you mean?” He goes, “Well, you're going to be put under.” I was just like, “What? What are you talking about?” My husband looks at me and he's like, “Are you okay with that?” I was not trying to be any sort of way when I said this, but I just was like, “I don't really think I have a choice.” I was just saying, “I have to be okay with it because I don't have a choice.” I wasn't being snarky. The doctor was like, “You have a choice.” I was like, “Oh my gosh, I do? Tell me more about my choice.” He basically looked me dead in the eyes and he goes, “You can leave.” I was like, “What?” So it was just a really traumatic experience. I had the C-section. I got to be awake which was great, but Eloise ended up being in the NICU for 10 days. It just felt like we were trapped. We had CPS called on us. Meagan: Stop it. Are you serious?Jaime: There was a lot. There was a lot happening. It's like the horror story that you think of when you hear someone trying to have a home birth and then they end up in the hospital and anything that could go wrong went wrong. Eloise is perfectly healthy. It was just the dynamic of it all that went wrong, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. But yeah. I had a lot to work through. We didn't get pregnant for the longest time. I had no desire, really, because I just was terrified. I'm like, “I don't want to experience this again. I don't know what's going to happen.” It wasn't necessarily a bodily thing where I was feeling like my body failed me, it was more so just true traumatic, mental PTSD I guess. I'm not really sure how to put it. We got pregnant in 2020. I had a miscarriage with that baby, but when I found out I was pregnant, I was immediately not ready. I was terrified. There were so many things running through my brain. I just didn't know how to handle it. I started the course, that pregnancy course, going to an actual doctor. Off the bat, I was like, “I'm just going to go to a doctor because I don't want anything like what happened last time to happen again. I just want to avoid all of the hoop jumping. If I'm going to end up there, I'm just going to go there from the start,” basically, was kind of my mindset.We lost that baby and then with Delaney, the new baby, we got pregnant in 2022 with her. It was just different from the get-go. I think my husband was actually more nervous this time about everything than I was but I felt just very grounded. I felt confident about it. I was like, “I want to do a home birth. I definitely don't want to be in the hospital.” Things were still very weird with COVID so that was another big thing because I'm like, “I don't want to be in the last hour telling me that my husband can't be in the room,” or just weird rules like that happening around everything. So yeah, I'm like, “I'm going to do a home birth. I'm going to find a midwife.” It took me forever to find a midwife. I think I called everyone in the Nashville area and they were either busy, they were all booked up, or they wouldn't take a VBAC, or just not a good fit. I had one lady. I get on the phone with her and she's like, “Well, you know uterine rupture is not something to be just pushed under the rug.” I literally hung up the phone and I go to my husband Matt. I'm like, “I don't know. I'm a crazy person. What am I doing?” Meagan: You're not. Jaime: It just freaked me out. Yeah. So I found my midwife around 11 weeks which I felt was pretty late in the game. From that point, it was just a rollercoaster of ups and downs battling doubts within my headspace. My pregnancy from a physical standpoint was a little bit rough. I don't know. I just felt like my body was old and not functioning well. I was the person that couldn't tie their shoes towards the end. I couldn't wear any rings because all of my fingers were so swollen and everything. It was just a rough pregnancy physically compared to my first, but also, just dealing with the mental aspect of everything, I would be super confident one day that I'm going to do this and I'm going to have this home birth– not even a home birth, but just have a VBAC. Like, “I can do this. We were made to do this,” and then the next day, I'm like, “What am I doing? Who wants to do this? Maybe I should just sign up for a C-section again.” Meagan: Just all over the place emotionally. That's so real though. So many of us doing that. One day, we're like, “Yes.” The next day, we're like, “What am I doing? Is this right?” and questioning ourselves. Jaime: Yep. Yeah. 100%. So I really went into this birth. I tried to protect my energy as much as I could. I didn't tell a lot of people I was trying to have a home birth because it was already enough trying to do a VBAC. It was already weird enough. I'm like, “I don't want to tell everyone what I'm doing. No one needs to know what my birth plan is besides the people that really matter.” I read a couple of books that I felt were really pivotal for me. One was Birthing From Within by Pam England. I didn't even finish the whole book. I got through one chapter but it changed my life because, in the beginning, she says that every woman has a question that needs to be answered before they can birth their child. You might find your answer to your question during pregnancy or you might find it in transition or you might find it when you're about to push the baby out. She basically was like, “What is your question? When you think you have your question, you have to dig a little bit deeper because that's probably not your question. Your question is underneath that question.” So I spent 7 months trying to find my question and at the end of it, it felt like it wasn't so much a question, but I felt that I was punished anytime I tried to go outside of the norm of what society deemed normal. That was my big, pivotal thing where I was like, “Wow. I can do this. That is a lie believing that I am going to be punished for trying to do something abnormal.” There was another birth, Reclaiming Childbirth as a Rite of Passage by Rachel Reed. The whole beginning of the book was talking about “herstories”, so history but for women, “herstory”. Rachel is a medical doctor. She is an MD and I felt like this book wasn't super crunchy and it wasn't super medicalized. It was very much right in the middle which I felt was what I needed to hear. I didn't feel like she was biased in one way or another but she laid the facts out of where we started to how we got to where we are now within the birthing industry. It helped me to realize. I knew this already going into it, but it helped me to realize that I actually had really deep-rooted, preconceived ideas about what birth was just from how I've grown up in the society that I've grown up in watching movies, listening to stories, and all of the stuff that we just see on TV. Birth is this crazy thing that happens. The woman is always out of control. The doctor is always there to save the day, all that kind of stuff. I was like, “Wow. I have these opinions of things that aren't even my opinions. They've just been given to me from movies and society and culture.” It really helped to weed through some fear that I was having realizing that I don't have to have this anymore. I don't have to believe this because it's not my story. It's not even real, actually. It's just culture. So those were the two big things. And then obviously, I found your podcast. I also started listening to a free birth podcast. I had no desire in my life to ever free birth ever, but I had read something on Instagram that was like, “If you're preparing for birth, prepare to do a free birth so that way, you are aware of everything that could happen and what you can do to go through obstacles or you know the steps and the phases that you'll go through when you're in labor.” So basically, be overprepared even though you're going to have people there to help you. That helped a lot. I just listened to everything I could about any positive experience of someone having a VBAC. I hired a doula not for any other reason other than it would increase my odds of having a successful VBAC. I still joke to this day that I have no idea what a doula actually does, but I hired one. It helped me have a VBAC, I just think, by doing that. I was just doing all of the things that I could come up with to try and get my head in the right spot and to set myself up for success. I did The Bradley Method with my first daughter and Bradley Method is like a 12-week course if you're not familiar. It is hours long so it is very in-depth. But I found this lady on TikTok and I took her virtual train-for-birth class. Her name is Crisha Crosley. It was, I kid you not. I think it was an hour and a half and it was the most informative thing I've ever done. It helped me. The whole premise is “Train for Birth” so movements and different things that you can do to become ready to birth your child, to get the baby in the right position, pushing, how to push, and different things to do while you're in labor so when I actually went into labor, she was in the forefront of my mind of, “Okay, I can't stay in this position for too long. Let me go to the bathroom every 5 seconds. Make sure I'm drinking my water,” lots of movements when I was actually in labor. It was all because I took that class. It was amazing. That was around 38 weeks when I took that class. My brother and his wife, so my brother, Michael, and Ashley came when I was around 40 weeks because Ashley was going to help with Eloise during the birth. All in between that, I'm curb walking. I'm on the ball doing figure 8's. Just to backtrack a little bit, when I hit 37 weeks just to give you an idea of where I was at, I went to Costco and ran into one of my midwives. She's like, “How are you doing?” Because I'm like, “I'm so depressed. It's 37 weeks and I haven't had this baby.” I just was in my brain, I'm like, “Okay, it's 37 weeks so it means I can have the baby when I haven't had the baby yet. I need this baby out of me. It's time to go.” She's like, “What? You're depressed?” I'm like, “I'm kidding, sort of. But yeah, I want to have this baby.”Meagan: You're like, “I really just wish I could have this baby right now.” Jaime: Yeah. Yes. So yeah. We're nearing the end. My brother and sister-in-law come around 40 weeks to help with Eloise. Delaney, the new baby, was LOA if that's right. She was on the left side. Meagan: Left occiput anterior. Jaime: Yeah. I think the optimal is ROA. Is that correct? Meagan: Well, it really depends but LOA– so it moves the uterus usually clockwise. LOA is really good actually because then they just kind of go forward and down. But it all depends on the shape of our pelvis too. Some babies need to enter a ROA position. Some of them need to actually enter posterior which is frustrating that we have posterior in any sort of labor, but sometimes that is how. So yeah, LOA is a really great position. Jaime: Okay, then she must have been the other way. She must have been ROA and I was trying to get her to go to the left, LOA. Yeah. I was trying to do movements to give her some space so she could turn. The midwife told me that the right side is okay, but the optimal would be LOA because it's just easiest. When you said posterior, that reminded me that I was actually very nervous about back labor because I had felt like every podcast I listened to where someone was having a VBAC, all they ever talked about was back labor so I was just terrified of it. On top of doing a VBAC, if that's not hard enough, I'm going to deal with back labor and all of this stuff. That didn't happen to me at all. I had no back labor so it was perfect. In Tennessee, my midwives were licensed by the state. They cannot help me past 42 weeks due to their licensure. We were nearing the end. I had a clock ticking. My brother and Ashley were here which was stressing me out, not in a bad way, but I was kind of under a clock if that makes sense. I'm like, “I need to have this baby because they are here and then I need to have this baby because I'm nearing 42 weeks and at that point, I'm either going to be a crazy person and do unassisted which doesn't make you crazy, or I'm going to have to go to a hospital. Those are my two options because I can't do it with them.” Then she wanted me to do that test where they test for movement, heart rate, and practice breaths or something like that. I needed to do that in my 41st week just to show if something happened early 42 weeks, that it was okay for me to birth at home with them still. I scheduled that for Friday, so September 2nd. I reluctantly scheduled it. I was like, “Fine. I'm just going to put it on the books and see what happens.” Then my brother actually had to leave on Sunday to go. My brother leaves on Sunday to go do an interview. Delaney is born on Thursday. I scheduled that test for the next day on Friday. The next Sunday was my 42nd, so that was my hard out if that timeline makes sense.Meagan: Yeah, yeah. Jaime: Michael, my brother, left to do an interview that they scheduled for him that Monday then he was going to come immediately back. He's like, “If I miss this birth, I'm going to be so mad.” Then Sunday, Ashley and my husband and my daughter, and I went to the splash pad. That was the first day I had a contraction where I was like, “Oh, okay. Something is happening.” I didn't tell anyone because I didn't want to be put under a clock or to feel pressure to have this baby when I wasn't ready or anything like that. I just kept to myself. I had a couple of contractions Sunday and then that just led to me having contractions every single night. It was all night, every night and then it would die off in the early, early morning. Meagan: Prodromal labor. Jaime: Yeah. I'd get a few hours of sleep so I'm just getting exhausted. I told Ashley actually maybe Monday or something. She woke up Tuesday and was like, “So, did Jaime have any more contractions?” She was asking my husband. I didn't even tell my husband this. My husband was like, “She was having contractions? What are you talking about?” I literally kept everything. My lips were sealed. I kept everything to myself. I texted my midwife on Tuesday. So Sunday I had no sleep. Monday, I had no sleep. I texted her Tuesday and I'm like, “Hey. I've been having contractions. Nothing is sticking around. Everything stops. I have nothing all day and then it starts again at night.” She's like, “Cool. Nothing to worry about. Everything is normal. Sounds good. No big deal.” My brother did make it back because he came back Monday evening so he was here for everything. Then Wednesday was my absolute breaking point. Wednesday comes. Michael and my husband go shooting and then the girls, all of us, go to this park just to hang out. I had a massive contraction as we were leaving that stopped me in my tracks. I literally just hung back and I'm like, “Yeah, you guys just keep walking. Go ahead and I'll just meet you there in a second.” I'm just stopped in the middle of everything. Ashley, my sister-in-law is like, “Okay.” They just keep walking to the car and then I catch up later. She's like, “So I think we want to go to the grocery store to get some stuff for dinner.” In my head, I'm like, “I don't know if I'm going to be able to make it.” I'm emotionally at the end of my limits and then physically also, the contractions were intense, but it was more an emotional thing where I'm like, “I can't do this again. I'm going to have another sleepless night. It's already starting. It's 5:00. This is awful.” We go to the grocery store and it was my full focus just to not have a mental breakdown and start hysterically sobbing in the middle of the grocery store. We go. I make it through and we get home. I immediately go upstairs just to be alone. I put a movie on to start watching and have these random contractions that happen. Looking back, it's funny because in the first stage of labor, they always say that the woman goes into a cave and wants to be alone. In my brain, I was ready. I'm like, “I'm going to pay attention so I can see the signs and make sure that I know I'm going into labor.” It never once crossed my mind that I was entering a cave to be by myself. It never crossed my mind. I just was thinking, “I'm going to have another sleepless night and I'm drained emotionally.” I think I cried, then dinner was ready. It's 6:00 so I go downstairs. I shovel dinner into my mouth and then have another massive contraction at the table. I sit there silently then I'm like, “I'm going upstairs.” I run back upstairs and literally, I put this movie back on and I'm in hysterics. I'm sobbing uncontrollably. I just don't know that I can do this again. I get very crazy when I don't have any sleep. I just was future thinking about how this night was going to go where I'm going to have these crazy contractions and then I'm not going to sleep on top of it. I was just a mess. I go back upstairs. I have a couple of breakdowns. I'm extremely exhausted. I started timing my first contractions around 7:06. Not my first contraction, but my first timed one where I was like, “Maybe I should see what's happening here.” Delaney was born at 1:20 AM so it was six hours from start to finish basically. Meagan: Wow. Jaime: Nothing was consistent whatsoever. I'm upstairs with the peanut ball doing all of the moves trying to go through the Miles Circuit to make sure she's in the right position and all of that stuff. I texted the night midwife. They have a 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM and then a 7P to 7A so depending on when I went into labor is who I'd be talking to. So I texted the night midwife around 8:30 with a picture of my contractions, my timed-out stuff. I wanted to take Benadryl so I could go to sleep. I'm like, “Is it okay if I take Benadryl? Will I be okay? I just don't know if it picks up, am I going to be exhausted and trying to push a baby out?” She's like, “No. If you take a Benadryl and you actually go into labor, you're going to be fine. Trust me.” I was like, “Okay.” She's like, “Take a bath then if things slow down, go to sleep. Try to get some rest. If they don't slow down, call me and let me know.”So I took a bath. Nothing really happened. I kicked my husband out of the room multiple times because I just wanted to be by myself. I don't think I let him stay until 9:30-10:00 at night. I was waiting for these clues. I lost my mucus plug. I don't even know if this is accurate but in my brain, that meant I was around 3 centimeters. My husband was like, “Do you want me to call someone?” I'm like, “No. I'm 3 centimeters if anything so I've got 24 hours of labor to go. I'm in trouble, basically,” is what I was thinking. I was waiting for my bloody show which meant I'd be 5 centimeters. Again, I don't know if that's accurate but that is just what was in my brain. Almost immediately after I lost my mucus plug, within an hour– it felt way more immediate than that– but within an hour, I had bloody show happening all over the place. My doula was an hour away. I'm like, “Okay. Fine. Call the doula.” This is me caving to my husband. I'm like, “Call the doula. She's an hour away so just have her come, I guess.” He calls the doula and in my brain, I'm like, “I hope I'm still in labor when she comes here.” I just was very nervous that everyone was going to get to the house and then I was either going to stall out or this wasn't really it and then they're all going to leave and I had wasted everyone's time or they're all just sitting around twiddling their thumbs watching me go through labor. I did not want that to happen at all. But he calls the doula and talks with her. She says, “Okay.” Then he calls her again. She hears me in the background and she's like, “Okay, I'm coming. I'm coming. I'm on my way.” So that happened. I'm telling Matt. I'm like, “Can you go fill up the tub, please? Not so I can have a baby in the tub but just so I can get some relief,” because again, I'm thinking I'm going to be here for many, many more hours. He calls the midwife and tells her that the doula is on the way just to give her an update. That's probably around 11:30. She was like, “Okay, great. Let me know when you need me to come.” He goes down, fills the tub up, and then comes back upstairs. Again, time is lost in this space. He comes back upstairs, calls the midwife again, and the midwife hears me in the background and she is like, “I'm on my way,” and then just hangs up. She was only 30 minutes from us, so she hears me and she's like, “Oh my gosh. I'm coming.” At that point, I'm trying to go down the stairs. It takes me three full contractions to get down the stairs. Matt's talking to the doula. She's like, “Does she feel pushy?” I'm like, “I don't know what pushy feels like because I've never done this before.” At some point on the stairs, I felt Delaney change position. I don't really know how else to say it, but it just felt like she dropped down and was right there. I'm still not thinking I'm about to have a baby. Even that, I'm just like, “Okay. I'm in it for the long haul here.” Meagan: Right. Jaime: I finally get down the stairs. I get in the tub again, just to find relief. I'm not trying to have a baby here. Matt's trying to make a smoothie. I'm chaotic. I was not a calm laboring person. I was very loud. At this point, when the bloody show happened, I stopped timing the contractions at 11:32 PM. At that point, I was just like, “Forget it. I don't care.” But then when the bloody show happened, it was one on top of another on top of another on top of another and I had no relief, nothing whatsoever. It was wild. I get into the tub. I'm yelling every time a contraction comes. Matt's trying to make a smoothie and I'm yelling, “I need you here right now.” My daughter is crying because I'm being so loud. I get into the tub and I had three contractions in the tub. On the second contraction, I push her head out. I'm just like, “I'm having a baby.” The coolest part about it was that there was no fear. It was very natural, very primal. I never for once thought, “Oh my gosh. No one is here yet and I'm pushing this baby out.” I get her head out and my brother is right there. He sees the head and he's like, “Jaime, the head is out. You've got to push the rest of the baby out now,” because he's thinking that the head is out and she's drowning underwater. I'm just like, “No. It's okay. It's okay.” I have all of these things in my brain from what the midwives had told me. I'm like, “Okay. So I birthed her underwater so I have to stay underwater. I can't get out and go back in.” I have all of these things going through my head. The next contraction comes and she's out and on my chest. No one was there except my brother, Ashley, my husband, and my daughter. The midwife walked in literally one minute after she was born, then the doula ran in, and then the assistant ran in. Meagan: The whole team, boom. Jaime: Yeah, so it was one after another and everyone walks in with their jaws on the ground like, “What just happened?” I'm like, “I don't know. We just had a baby and here we are.” So that's my VBAC story. I did it and it was great. I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. It would have been nice to have a team of people there, but that wasn't how it was supposed to happen. It worked out perfectly. Meagan: That's okay. Yeah. I'm so glad. I love how your brother is like, “Uhh.” Jaime: It's time to go. You've got to get the rest out. Meagan: Yeah, but you would see that and that would make sense. Jaime: Yeah. Yep. Meagan: Oh my gosh. I love that. So first of all, huge congratulations. Jaime: Thank you. Meagan: So awesome. So, so awesome. And yeah, let's talk about overcoming your fears. Talking about your first birth, CPS, all of the things. Yeah, you have options. Oh yeah, let me tell you my options. Go. Leave. You have no options other than to leave. Jaime: Yeah. Yeah. Meagan: So much surrounded it that could have carried forward in this next birth. What are some tips for the listeners that you would give? You were reading. You were taking this course. What other types of things would you say are some key components to overcoming your fears and getting to the point where you were literally birthing– not alone– but you were here birthing alone? You were like, “I've got this. I'm strong.” So yeah. Any tips that you have?Jaime: Yeah. I mean, for me, I would suggest really, really, really protecting your energy and what that looks like– not even watching a movie with a crazy birth scene in it, not talking to people who have opinions on how you're going to birth your baby, just trying to stay within the scope of healthy, positive stuff. Even some of the Instagram accounts will give you statistics and they are trying to be helpful, but sometimes reading those statistics send you on a spiral so it was just really trying to hone in and stay close to what you know to be true, focusing on the fact that you want to have this VBAC, that it is safe to have a VBAC, and everything else just kind of block it out. Unless it is a positive experience, don't listen to it. Don't talk about it. Just focus on yourself and what you're trying to do. Meagan: Yeah. Hold onto what's important to you because yeah. There is a lot of outside static. Like you said, right here at The VBAC Link, we are guilty of posting statistics, right? Statistics can be very helpful for some and it can be something that creates fear or angst as well. If you know that that is not something that can keep your space safe and will cause angst, then yeah. Like you said, don't read it. Don't look at it. Jaime: For sure. For sure. Meagan: Put it away. If you're wanting to know those numbers to make you feel better, okay then there you go. If you're wanting to not hear any– we've had listeners who are like, “We couldn't listen to any repeat Cesarean stories because they were not what we could have in our space.” That is okay too. You can filter through. Some people are like, “I wanted to know all of the possible outcomes.” You've got to find what is best for you and like you said, protect your space because your space is what matters. Jaime: For sure. Meagan: Oh, well thank you so, so, so much for being with us today and sharing with us this amazing story. Totally unexpected. I bet your team was just freaking out driving. Jaime: Thank you for having me. Yeah. Meagan: I wish we could have had a dash cam looking at them or even just there to see their pattern of driving. I bet they were weaving in and out and really, really, really rushing to you.Jaime: That's funny. Meagan: But like you said, it all worked out how it was supposed to be. All was well and here you are sharing your story and inspiring others. Jaime: Thank you. Well, thank you again so much for having me. I hope it helps. Meagan: Oh, it will. It will. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

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Mindy Duff from Iowa joins us on this week's episode to share her three births. She is the host of the podcast, Up-level Your Life with Mindy, as well as a speaker, certified holistic health and nutrition coach and a published author. Her mission is to help individuals uncover their best selves through the power of self-care and self-love.Mindy's first child was born at 37 weeks, and she was monitored for preeclampsia towards the end. She was induced with her second child at 38 weeks due to preeclampsia. During her third pregnancy, she had an OB appointment two days before her due date and was 3cm and fully effaced. Her doctor told her she was very close to being sent to the hospital but he couldn't make that decision yet. That night, she went to bed and woke up at 12:25am, went to the bathroom, and intense contractions immediately started. Her son was born 25 minutes later in her home with her husband there to catch him. She had a normal stay in the hospital from there.Mindy is co-author of a book coming soon and hosts her own podcast ,“Up-Level Your Life with Mindy." She is also a holistic health & nutrition coach. Connect with Mindy on Instagram here and listen to her podcast here.To sign up for our newsletter visit our website and blog: www.goldenhourbirthpodcast.comFollow Liz on Instagram here and Natalie hereFollow us on Facebook here.Intro Song by Carpathians (Donny Rodgers): https://carpathians.bandcamp.com/track/lavaman 

(5:00) A player and a position the guys will be focused on starting Tuesday (8:00) Vacuum to fill out wide opposite Johnny (12:00) More on DBs (20:00) Can FSU hang on to an elite hooper? (23:00) Not panicking but the baseball season is hanging in the balance early https://mybookie.website/JoinwithWARCHANT (33:00) Corey on a boat (40:00) Nick Saban sniping at the roundball coach? Music: Ballyhoo! - Dammit Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

(5:00) A player and a position the guys will be focused on starting Tuesday (8:00) Vacuum to fill out wide opposite Johnny (12:00) More on DBs (20:00) Can FSU hang on to an elite hooper? (23:00) Not panicking but the baseball season is hanging in the balance early https://mybookie.website/JoinwithWARCHANT (33:00) Corey on a boat (40:00) Nick Saban sniping at the roundball coach? Music: Ballyhoo! - Dammit Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We are so excited to be joined by Mikaella as our guest and our dear Julie as a cohost today! Mikaella's VBAC story is one of redemption, healing, and embracing the unexpected. By allowing herself to recognize that her Cesarean birth was traumatic, Mikaella was able to begin her healing journey and prepare for her VBAC. As her birth progressed, plans changed from a faraway hospital to her local hospital to a fast and furious birth at home! Julie, Mikaella, and Meagan share thoughts on the importance of acknowledging our traumas and how to avoid comparing them to others. Additional LinksMikaella's InstagramClark Film and PhotoHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode DetailsMeagan: Good morning and welcome to The VBAC Link or maybe it's the afternoon or evening or I don't even know. Whenever it is that you are listening, welcome to The VBAC Link. This is Meagan, your host, and guess what, you guys? We have Julie today as a cohost!Julie: Yay! Hi. Meagan: It's always so fun to have Julie on and today is actually one of her own clients which is super fun. I love when we have a doula client on the podcast because you can just connect with the story and people are bouncing back and forth, so it is so fun. She is here from Utah, so we are all Utahns today here on the podcast. Review of the WeekWe're going to jump into a review, and then I'm going to tell you more about our guest Mikaella. Julie: Yeah, I'm so excited to be here. I was a little nervous this morning. I'm not going to lie. It's so strange being on here as a guest instead of a regular host. I don't know. It's just this weird little thing, but also I wanted to clarify that Mikaella is actually a birth photography and video client of mine. She had a separate doula, Jenessa who is incredible. But she's going to go into that more in her story, I'm sure about it. I do have a review and I love this review. It's incredible. It was by springr and the title of the review is, “Wow, Just Wow.” I love that. She says, “I'm what I like to consider a still pretty new mama, but I'm also a C-section mom. For a while, I really thought that's what I would always be. I hit some pretty dark places, but this podcast has given me light. I listen to multiple episodes a day and have a long stream of notes on my phone.” Let me add, I'm not pregnant again, but that's how prepared I want to be when we do get there for our next baby. This podcast has given me my first tool to get there. Recently, as quarantine life has become the new normal, I've almost always got an episode buzzing in my ear. My husband says I've got a bit of an addiction. I snapped back really quick and said, ‘I've got hope. It helps me believe in myself.' He quickly got quiet.” Meagan: Oh my gosh, I love that. Julie: Yeah. “These ladies answer personal messages asking for help. I just can't say enough good things. They are that good. This podcast is just that good. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.” This sounds familiar actually, this review. It might be somebody that has contacted me and wants to hire me as a doula when she gets pregnant. Now I'm just thinking because that review did sound a little bit familiar. Anyways, we've been talking for a bit of a year now and she's not even pregnant. Anyways, it might be. Who knows, it might be completely random and somebody else but when she said personal messages, I was like, “Oh, maybe.” Thank you so much to whoever left it. Meagan: Maybe. Well, I love that review. And you know what? That's okay if you are addicted to a podcast. I have podcasts that I'm addicted to and I always have an AirPod that I actually have lost now. There is one missing because apparently, I can't put it right back in the case. I just sit there and I listen to my podcast in one ear and then do life in the other while I'm doing things and that's okay. I love it though. I love that this podcast gives you hope. That is exactly why this podcast is the podcast. That is exactly why it is here. It's to give people hope, inspiration, and motivation, and to empower you to make choices that are best for you for your birthing day. So thank you so much for that review. Mikaella's StoriesMeagan: Okay, Mikaella. We are so excited to have Mikaella on. Mikaella: Hi. Meagan: Hi, yes. Thank you so much for taking the time today. You have a lot of things. You're a photographer, right as well? Mikaella: Yes, yep. Meagan: Okay, and then you have three kiddos and you have been a 911 dispatcher for five years. Love that. That's really cool. I love that you say trash reality TV is your guilty pleasure. That is so funny. I love that you also love Taco Bell because I have this weakness for Taco Bell too. In fact, we just went on a weekend trip for my daughter's gymnastics meet in St. George, Utah and we got a taco from St. George. You guys, it's the best Taco Bell taco I've ever had. Like seriously, St. George does it right. So when you are in St. George next time, you should go to Taco Bell. Julie: Meagan and Mikaella, you guys. I'm sorry but Taco Bell is not very good. Meagan: Do you know what? It depends on the Taco Bell because the Taco Bell by my house sucks. But St. George, holy cow. Even my husband was like, “That was the best Taco Bell ever.” I was like, “Right?” So I love that. I love that so much and I'm so excited to dive into this story because I love hearing the big baby stories. It sounds like you heard, “Big baby, big baby, big baby” for so long and so many people telling you that you're not a good candidate for VBAC, and then boom. Julie: Boom. Mikaella: Basically, that's the best way to put it. Meagan: So let's turn the time over to you to share your stories and how this big baby and a non-VBAC candidate mom rocked her VBAC. Mikaella: So I have three kids. I have a five-year-old Claire, a three-year-old Boston, and then Charlie is my VBAC baby. I feel like Charlie's VBAC story really starts with 21-year-old first-time mom Mikaella who knew nothing. I was along for the ride. I had no interest in pursuing any sort of birth education or anything like that especially with my mom's own traumatic birth history so I was like, “Whatever happens happens. It's fine.” For my first birth, that was okay. It wasn't that big of a deal. I do wish I had been equipped with more knowledge, but it was smooth sailing for the most part. She came on her own the morning of my scheduled induction so I was already in labor when I got there anyway. My body was doing what it was supposed to do. She ended up being vacuum assisted because she was posterior and then it ended up being a trend with all of my babies with them being posterior so that was a really big worry I had with Charlie. It just felt like a normal birth experience. And then Boston because Claire's was so normal, I went in feeling like, “Oh, nope. I've got it, no problem.” Then I was talked into an induction because I was along for the ride. I didn't know the ins and outs and the cascade of interventions and things like that. I was induced about a week early with him. Both he and Claire, my labors were about 12 hours long with lots and lots and lots of pushing. But with him, I felt completely out of control from being induced and having my dura nicked with the epidural. Then I had some major blood loss that was still unexplained there in the middle which was pretty traumatic. With him, I pushed for hours as well and he was just not coming out. He was so stuck. My provider was not pushy at all actually. He was very, “Here are your options. You can keep pushing. We can try a vacuum with him too, but if he gets stuck, it's going to be more complicated with him being farther down the birth canal.” So we opted for a C-section with him. I don't know. I think I reacted really strongly to the extra medication because I was numb from the chin down. It was a very unpleasant experience which just added the whole out-of-control feeling. I went in there and as I'm feeling them tugging, I didn't feel any pain which was great. I was feeling the tugging and then everybody starts laughing. I was like, “This is not the time to be laughing. What is going on?” They pulled him out and were like, “He's huge.” He was. He was a 12-pound baby. There was probably no way I was actually going to get him out on my own, but ever since having him, everyone was like, “Oh you just make big babies,” because my first baby was 8 pounds, 9 ounces. He was 12 pounds. Julie: And he's still such a big kid. Mikaella: He is a really big kid. Julie: He is so cute. Mikaella: He's bigger than all of the other kids in my preschooler's class and he's only three. He's just big like my whole mom's side of the family. So after his birth, it took a long time to be able to talk about it out loud. I posted a really watered-down and foggy version on Facebook as a birth announcement post, but I don't even remember writing half of it. I just remember feeling traumatized but not that the trauma was valid because I knew people with worse stories and that was something that I had to come to grips with. My trauma was still valid despite it not being maybe as bad as somebody else's. Meagan: Totally, yeah. Mikaella: I knew we wanted more kids, but there was so much anxiety surrounding the decision of when to have more kids so there was a little bit more of a gap between Boston and Charlie. I was still pretty afraid of birth until I had a life-changing experience attending a birth as a photographer. It was actually for Jenessa who ended up being my doula later down the road but it was this beautiful, intimate home birth. I found it so healing. She was singing through her contractions and the atmosphere was just so sweet and loving. She was definitely in charge and she knew what she wanted. She was a practical stranger at that point, but it was still such a positive experience to watch her have such a positive birth experience. It was life-changing. So then when I got pregnant again, I knew I did not want a C-section just based on how the last one had felt. I didn't even want an epidural based on the spinal headache I had gotten with my dura being nicked. I felt like having the epidural and not being able to move around during labor contributed a lot to both of my babies getting stuck, so I felt like being able to move in labor was going to be really important to me. My OB who delivered Boston was actually super supportive but I wasn't allowed to VBAC at the hospital. Where I live is a really rural area. He said he would send me north whenever I went into labor, but I really wanted to know my birth team. With that it option, it was just, “You get who you get and hopefully they're supportive of a VBAC too,” which I think we've all come to realize is hard to find VBAC-supportive providers. Meagan: Very, very, yeah.Mikaella: So when I was looking for a provider, I went through so many, but I began my research. I met with multiple providers and I just kept hearing, “You make big babies. You make big babies,” because Claire was 8 pounds, 9 ounces, and Boston was 12 pounds. “You just make big babies and it would just be easier for you to have a C-section. Here are all of the risks and complications of a VBAC,” but no one wants to talk about the complications of a repeat C-section, right? This one particular OB, I don't know if I can shout him out because he might be really upset. I want to make sure that no one else looking for a VBAC goes to him. He didn't even give me the decency of a conversation before completely shutting me down. I had gone in. I spoke with the nurse. She was like, “Whatever you want, you get. You are the birthing mom.” I was feeling on cloud 9. I was even texting my husband, “This is going so well,” as she was checking me in. I guess the casual conversation that I was having with her about my birth history, she relayed to him in the five-minute span before he came into the room and that was all it took for him to decide that I was not a good candidate for a VBAC at all. He didn't want to talk about the preparations I had made, that I had a doula, that I didn't feel as big as I was with Boston. None of that even mattered. Meagan: He just put a label on you and was done.Mikaella: Immediately. Immediately. There was no conversation about any of it. Not about my birth history. Even my original OB who delivered my last baby was like, “No, you can do that. That's fine,” but it just said that it made him and his staff uncomfortable. I ended up at Valley Women's Health, the Orem Midwives' Group at 35 weeks pregnant and I just stuck with them because they were the first ones to not tell me no right away. There were still some things that I was hesitant about. There was a lot of, “You'll have to do this and this and this. These are the requirements, but sure. We'll try,” kind of thing. I did, however, have to go through a VBAC consultation at Utah Valley where they all discuss the risks of a VBAC. Nothing about the risks of a repeat C-section of course. They had me sign all of those forms and then had me do a growth scan which showed Charlie being about three weeks ahead. She was going to be absolutely massive according to them. I did not feel big at all at least compared to my last two. I was more active in this labor. I was eating healthily. I was doing all of the stretches and sitting in the right positions to make sure that she wasn't posterior too. I just felt like I could do it. It really helped to feel like I was going to be in charge of this birth. My doula was very, very supportive all the way through. She was just like, “No. You've got this. You can do this. I know you and I know your willpower,” so she was a huge support that way and as well as my husband. He's never not backed me on anything. He's great. I should also add that the hospital where I was going to deliver is about an hour and a half away from me. Only like what, five minutes away from you, Julie? Julie: Yeah, it's about 20 minutes from me, but super far from you. Mikaella: Okay, you're a little bit further. I was thinking it was only about five minutes away. I was preparing to labor in the car. They had been like, “Are you sure you don't want to be induced?” I was like, “Nope. I don't want to intervene with this at all. My body is going to do its own process.” I was mentally preparing myself to labor for an hour and a half in our van. I had my husband get the puppy pads ready and line the bottom of the van with the puppy pads. I woke up to my strongest contraction at about 4:00 AM and that's when I began timing them. I got in the shower to see if they would get closer together and then they started getting closer together really fast. The timeline is kind of foggy, but the contractions were so strong. I texted my doula at 5:30 letting her know that my contractions were about 5-7 minutes apart and that I was going to try and leave soon. She was going to have plenty of time because she was right next to the hospital, but in reality, I had only maybe two more contractions that far apart. It was just happening and happening really fast. I called my mom. She was getting ready to come over and I woke up Preston and had him load up the car while I was getting dressed. I do actually wish I had had him with me during those moments, but at that point, I thought we were still going to make the hour-and-a-half drive to the hospital, so I was like, “No. Get this. Get my bag. Get my charger. Throw all of the things in there,” the last minute things and grab whatever. Just throw it in the van.So he was running around like crazy trying to make sure he's got everything. I couldn't even get my pants on in between the contractions. I was sitting in the same spot just powering through these contractions. I remember thinking, “There's no way that I can do this unmedicated. I'm going to get that epidural as soon as I get to the hospital,” because all that I've heard in all of my research is that when you think you can't do it anymore, that's when you're at the end. I was like, “Well, I just barely started. How am I supposed to make it any farther than this?” and not realizing that I was actually right there at the end with how quick it was all going. Meagan: Oh my goodness. Mikaella: Yeah. It was about 30 minutes later that I knew we were not going to make it up to Provo. I called my doula and I think that was all I said. “I think we're not going to make it to the hospital.” She's like, “Oh, okay. Well, get to Sanpete Valley,” the one that's only 20 minutes away. “They can't force you to do anything,” because that was my biggest worry. I was like, “I don't want them to just throw me on a table as soon as I get there.” That contraction that I had on the phone with her was actually the only one that I was able to have my husband doing counterpressure for. I was just bracing myself against the tub. He's doing his best because we really thought that I was going to have a doula there. She would be able to walk him through things. I wasn't the most prepared. I'm not going to lie as far as the actual coping mechanisms, I think, that I was going to use. I had a metal comb that is used for dog grooming that I was clutching in my hand as tight as possible. Meagan: Powerful. Mikaella: Yep. I loved having that thing. That was a godsend honestly.  My mom arrived at about 6:15 and I was just holding onto her. It's funny because the two births I attended were so peaceful and one like I said, Jenessa was singing through her contractions. It was a beautiful environment and then another friend of mine was low moaning. It was a quiet atmosphere still and I am just screaming. You could even hear it in the background of the 911 call that my husband had to make. I'm just losing it in the background. I'm like, “This is not the calm, cool atmosphere that I was expecting.”But my mom got there. I had a super strong contraction and I was just feeling the irresistible urge to push. When I sat back up after that contraction, I felt my water which was bulging and that's when I had to tell my husband to call 911. He was like, “Oh, okay. This is happening right now and right here. We are not making it to the hospital.” Because I am a 911 dispatcher, the operator that he called is my coworker, so I knew the instructions she was going to give me. I was not about to lay on my back even though she was about to tell me to. He kept telling me, “She says that you've got to get on my back.” “I am not getting on my back. That is not what I want to do right now. Just tell her to get the ambulance here. We'll make it work.”At that moment, I made it from my bedroom floor back to my bathroom which is the tiniest room in my house. I don't know why I felt like I needed to be in there. But the EMT that lives around the corner arrived as I was crowning. I'm holding onto my mom. I did finally end up laying down, but she arrived as I'm crowning. With one push, Charlie's head comes out and my EMT unwraps the cord that was wrapped around her neck. It was wrapped around twice so she was super nervous– the EMT was. Another push and she was out. She was super pink. She was a really healthy color. What was really cool was that this whole time, despite it not being my plan at all, there was no fear. There was never a sense of, “This is going wrong.” There was a little bit of panic and there were a lot of self-doubts there in that first hour, but there was no fear. I just was able to trust my body and know what I was doing despite none of it going to plan whatsoever which was a really cool experience. Then they load me up into the ambulance. They took me to the hospital which was where I delivered my placenta. We actually were only there for six hours because, for some reason when you don't deliver at the hospital, they're like, “Oh, you can actually go home,” which seemed backward to me but I wasn't about to fight it. Jenessa and Julie arrived around the same time. I didn't even call Julie myself. I just told Jenessa, I was like, “Please call Julie and let her know what's going on.” The rest is history. It was just the most amazing redemptive birth. I got basically everything I wanted. I had written out a list of birth goals that I had wanted and on that list was intermittent monitoring which, I didn't end up having any monitoring. Getting my VBAC was super important which I got. I didn't have to have an epidural. I didn't even have to get an IV. It was just completely and 100% me and that felt incredibly powerful. It's been a really, really cool story to share especially to other moms who are looking to do VBACs and stuff like that, especially after I was told, “You make big babies. You make big babies.” This was another big baby. She was a 9.5-pound baby who came out on my bathroom floor with no tearing whatsoever. I did that.  Meagan: And you did it. You did it very quickly. Very, very quickly. Mikaella: Very, very quickly. From the first contraction that woke me up to her being born was about 2.5 hours total compared to the 12 hours each for my first two kids. Meagan: Oh my gosh. That is amazing. That is so amazing. I'm sure on Julie's end, she was like, “Oh my gosh. I've got to make it. I've got to get there.” Julie: Well, let me tell you. Can I tell you my version really fast?Mikaella: Yes. Julie: So I met Mikaella. Oh, I don't even remember. It was a month or something like that before you had your baby or something like that? I was excited because I've had clients in the past drive up from 2.5 hours away up here to have their VBACs, so I love those stories. I love people that really want to fight for it. We connected and I got pulled onto the team. I was excited to do a birth with Jenessa as well. But that morning, I got a phone call from Jenessa. I want to say it was around 6:00 or 6:30, somewhere around there. It might be a little earlier. She told me that you were in labor, that you had to change plans and go to the local hospital instead, and that you were just going to wing it, push for your VBAC, and fight if you needed to. You were prepared to do that, but things were moving quickly and you weren't going to make it up to Orem. I was groggy and half awake. I'm like, “So does she still want me to come?”I think I asked that or whatever because you know when you're half awake, I'm like, “I have no idea what to say.” She said, “Yeah. Get dressed and start heading down.” She said she was on her way, so I got dressed and I grabbed my cameras and gear, and headed out. It was about an hour and twenty-minute drive for me or maybe just an hour. I'm not quite sure exactly. So I started heading down and then I was just like, “Please don't let me miss this birth. Please don't let me miss this birth.” I was so frustrated because I had missed two other births already this summer because of people having fast babies. I had one VBAC client that went from 3 centimeters to baby in an hour and they didn't call me in until she was pushing. I was like, “Why, why, why?” and then the other client that I missed had only a 41-minute labor and it was a 46-minute drive for me. I was on my way and I was like, “Please don't let me miss this birth. Please not another one. Please not another one.” But I was excited to be going and supporting Mikaella. As soon as I was getting ready to go through the canyon in Spanish Fork which is about halfway there, I got another call from Jenessa and she said, “She just delivered her baby on the bathroom floor.” I was like, “What?! She didn't even make it to the hospital?” I was so surprised. And yes, I was absolutely super sad to miss it, but I'm also super happy that Mikaella got everything she wanted. It's funny because we have pictures and video clips of you reading off your list of everything that you wanted and stuff. That was super fun to go. I still kept heading down and we did a nice golden hour session. I was there for a few hours with them and the kids came in to meet baby and everything. But it was wild. This summer was wild. There were so many crazy things happening with births and babies. I just actually had a 9.5-pound baby born about a week ago even, a 9-pound, 7-ounce birth center birth. I just love seeing these big babies come flying out into the world just as fierce as they want to be. I love it. I love your story. It's so wild. I'm excited that you get to tell it today. Mikaella: It's so fun. I love being able to tell it. I think it's really cool that Charlie's got that story that she can tell now too. Now even, she's got news articles that she can look back on. Meagan: Yes, I was going to say that you said earlier that the news had contacted you and you were on the news. How did that story get out? Were they just like, “Oh my gosh, this accidental home birth.” Did they talk about VBAC in there too? Mikaella: It was very interesting to see how they took my story and spun it. I won't say it wasn't factual, but they definitely put a certain light on it I guess you could say. Our local ambulance, two or three more of my coworkers work in the ambulance too so I'm really close with a lot of them. Meagan: I would really like to see this article. Julie: I'll send it to you or she can send it to you. One of us. Mikaella: I think that there's a video as well as an actual written one. So basically, our local hospital does an EMS highlight at the end of the year and they decided that they were going to highlight Ephraim's ambulance this year which is where I'm from and the story that they were going to highlight was Charlie's story. A big emphasis was put on the EMT which I totally appreciate her. I love her. She was a godsend in that moment that she was there and she knew what to do especially with the cord wrapped around Charlie's neck. There was not a lot about me in the article which I find interesting. It's not as much about the birthing mother despite it being a birth story. So when the interviewers actually came over to my house, we were just having a casual chitchat before the actual filming and the interview began. They were saying, “The hospital was worried that this was going to make people want to have a home birth. They were worried that we were advocating for a home birth.” She's like, “You weren't planning on having a home birth, right?” Julie: What? Mikaella: Yeah. I was like, “Not that there's anything wrong with having a home birth, but no. That wasn't the plan.” I was like, “It is now if I have another one. I'm probably just going to have it at home.” I found it interesting that the hospital was like, “Oh, we don't want to promote home birth because that's risky,” or whatever. Then in the article, it was very much about EMS which is fine because it was their highlight, but they kept saying, “The baby that came early, the baby that came early.” I was like, “She didn't come early.” She came maybe two days early before her due date, but she just came fast. Julie: Oh my gosh. What got me was like, “The cord was around her neck and it was so emergent.” They went and talked about how the cord wrapped around her neck was that they saved your baby's life. That's what people say. That's what people think, but we all know that the cord around the neck, 99% of the time is not a problem. Mikaella: Exactly. The EMT that delivered her is wonderful. I have fostered a relationship now with her after the fact and I know a lot of people that work on the crew, so I didn't mind them getting a little highlight, but it was very interesting to see how they spun it there at the end and how they spliced it together. I know they were trying to work with what they had because I was so nervous about sharing my story that I was kind of all over the place. Preston had to keep anchoring me and be like, “Don't forget about this part of the story. Don't forget about this part of the story.” I'm like, “Oh right. I know.” Meagan: Yeah. Mikaella: It's interesting, yeah. Meagan: It just goes to show just in general with news how things can be spun and taken a little bit more out of context to make it sound different or more desirable in one factor or another. When you have a perfectly safe, beautiful, vaginal birth after Cesarean with a larger-sized baby that was a fast, precipitous labor and then this amazing EMT comes in and they just help. How awesome it was that they were there. There was this nuchal cord and how nervewracking it was for them, but they knew what to do. They were trained and they helped. Instead of just talking like that, it's a little different so it's kind of funny to think about that but still so cool that Charlie can go back and see and be like, “Look. I even made it into the news because I came so fast.”Mikaella: Exactly, exactly. Yep. Not a lot of big things happen in our tiny town. Meagan: Yeah, yes. So oh my gosh, well thank you so much both Mikaella and Julie for being with us today. Julie: Yeah. Meagan: One of the things I just want to talk about really, really fast is something that you were talking about from your second birth. You say that you had trauma but you know other people have more intense trauma or whatever. Mikaella: Right. Meagan: I don't want you to discredit the trauma that you did have because, for you as an individual, the trauma that exists exists. It's okay and sometimes I feel like it's just natural for us to be like, “Well, I know I didn't have to have this, this, this, or this happens like that person which is more traumatic.” It seems more traumatic to the listening ear, but at the same time, you personally went through this traumatic situation. It's okay. You can own that and be like, “This was very traumatic for me and it sucked. I had to work through this.” I want everyone out there to know that it's okay. It's okay to accept your trauma and recognize that it is trauma because that's one of the hardest parts is recognizing that it's traumatic. I'm proud of you for recognizing that, “Yes. This is traumatic for me.” Even Julie I'm sure would have situations with her own births or her clients' births where sometimes we walk away as doulas and we're like, “It doesn't seem very traumatic to them,” but it was really traumatic for me and I wasn't even the one going through it. I was an observer and went through it that way, but it wasn't happening to me. Trauma just exists so differently for everyone. So for everyone listening out there, one recognizing your trauma like Mikaella did is so important. I know for me, I think I told the story of how I was in the driveway stomping around processing trauma that I didn't even realize that I still had. Trauma is one of the best things that you can do, so I want to just really quickly talk about Julie because Julie is on the podcast today too. She actually did a really cool YouTube video on our YouTube at The VBAC Link and it's a smokeless– Julie: Smokeless unless you have lots of people doing it. Meagan: Yes, we did it one time with a lot of people and we definitely had smoke. Julie: We set off the fire alarm. That was awesome. Meagan: Yes we did. But yeah, check it out because even the smallest traumas may resonate largely inside and impact the result. So definitely check that out on YouTube at The VBAC Link. It's smokeless fear release. Julie: Smokeless fire fear release. Can I add something really fast about trauma because you know how I am with trauma? Meagan: Yeah, you've learned a lot about trauma. Julie: I went through a big, massive trauma-processing PTSD thing in 2021 and it was super intense. It was a lot of therapy and a lot of sessions. There were group sessions and everything like that. One thing that is so interesting is how everybody perceives their trauma differently. I feel like everybody feels like, “Oh, my trauma is not as bad” or “This person's trauma is way worse.” Meagan: We compare. We compare. Julie: Yeah, we do. There are people that are like, “I never would have survived the things that you went through in your childhood,” and I was like, “Dude. Are you kidding me? You saw this and this and that and I can't even imagine going through that.” It's really interesting because we do. We tend to compare, but one thing that I've learned through that process and one thing that I tell people, one thing that I want people to remember and know and one thing that I want to remember myself whenever I am feeling like maybe my stuff is not as bad as somebody else's is that trauma is trauma. There's no capital trauma or small trauma. It's trauma. The thing about trauma is our bodies and minds respond the same no matter what that trauma is. There are physical and emotional symptoms that come when trauma happens and those symptoms are the same no matter if you feel like your trauma is more or less than another person's. All of the symptoms are the same. We all go through those same things. Our bodies feel it the same. It may manifest differently and things like that, but trauma responses are trauma responses. And processing through them, it doesn't matter what caused the trauma.The trauma is there and it lives there. That is something that we all have the same. You know what I mean? No matter what the trauma was. I think that I see it so much Mikaella. When you said that, I was like, “I want to talk about this.” But yeah. Don't discount it because it lives inside of you the same as everybody else's does no matter what the circumstances were. Mikaella: Definitely.Meagan: Yes. I love that. I love that and it is pretty crazy to think about all of the women that have experienced birth trauma. I mean, it's upward towards 1 in 9 of people who are actually diagnosed, and then think about all of the people that don't seek help. We've got a lot of trauma out there. It makes me sad that it happens, but I love that you said that. I love that so much. So thank you. Julie: Yeah. Mikaella: Something I've noticed too on the trauma side is that so many women don't recognize it as trauma because they have been conditioned to think that birth is just a big, scary, traumatic thing that happens. When you have that trauma, that's just what comes along with birth, but hey, at least you're still here. My mom has her own traumatic birth history and she would not say it's not traumatic. She would definitely be the first to tell you, “No. That was trauma.” But my mother-in-law and I have sisters-in-law and they have all had one thing or another, but it's like, “Well, but my baby and me are here so it's fine.” Meagan: Exactly. Mikaella: The trauma is still so valid and it took me a long time to realize that and push against what has been perceived as normal for so long to recognize that no, it was traumatic for me. Just because it wasn't as bad as somebody else's or just because the baby and I are here and healthy, that doesn't mean that it wasn't traumatic. Due to that trauma, it took me a long time to even see a doctor when I found out that I was pregnant because I was like, “Nope because that makes it real. That makes this pregnancy real.” So even after having some healing experiences, it was still like my body was postponing calling the doctor and making an appointment. My body was postponing and putting off all of the things that I needed to do to prepare. It had its own kind of trauma response. Meagan: Exactly. That's one of the reasons why I congratulate you for recognizing that because so often, I didn't even recognize it until I was in labor and I was like, “Oh my gosh. I have all of these trauma factors that I'm now letting out in labor.” It's so hard. It's natural, I feel like, for our minds to downplay it and be like, “Well, but I got this so I shouldn't be traumatized or I shouldn't have fear or I shouldn't have sadness because I do have my baby and I'm okay overall,” but that doesn't mean we have to write it off. We don't have to write it off. We don't have to push it down the tunnel and just forget it ever happened because we have a healthy mom and a healthy baby. There was one birth that I was at here in Murray and the mom ended up having a Cesarean. It was a, I would say, pushed Cesarean more than a needed Cesarean. She didn't want it and she was crying. Lots of things were happening and I ended up going into the OR on this. It was a traumatic Cesarean. It really was. And then after, the doctor said to me, he pulled me aside and he goes, “Well, isn't she just happy now that she has her baby? Can't she just let all of that stuff go?” Because I stepped out to give them a moment because they were really upset. I just wanted to let them be together. It was clear to me that they just wanted a moment just the two of them and their baby. I said, “I don't think it works that way.” He goes, “Well, that's how it should work.” Julie: Wow. Meagan: I will never, ever forget that. It was like, “You totally just pushed her trauma aside. You did your job. You got the baby here, but now what happened leading up to that, what happened during it, and what's happening after shouldn't matter because she has her baby here.”Julie: Well, that's totally gaslighting. I mean, come on. Meagan: It was bad. He didn't say that to her. I hope that he never did, not that I know of it, but he said that to me. I was like, “You totally just discredited everything that she just experienced.” I was very frustrated. Julie: I hate the system. Meagan: You know, it's hard.Julie: I really do. Meagan: It's hard because I'm sure overall in his head, he just doesn't understand. He doesn't understand. He didn't experience that. Julie: Yep. Meagan: But that doesn't mean she should just be okay. So if you're one of those moms, and I'm going to tell you that there are lots of us out there that are like, “Okay, well it's okay because it's fine. I'm fine. I'll heal. My baby's here fine and safe.” We all should be glad and happy about that, but it's okay to accept that. It's okay to say, “You know, that was really hard. I didn't like that” or “That was triggering for me.” Like Julie said, the mind and the body and everything, we've got to work through it and we've got to accept it and it's really hard too. Mikaella: I want to add even if it's not necessarily traumatic, you're also still allowed to mourn a birth experience that you didn't get to have. Even if there was zero trauma involved, if you had something in your mind that you were working towards and didn't get it, that's still so valid. I know with Boston, my C-section, at the end I feel like it was necessary. I didn't feel pushed toward it or anything. I don't know that it would have been necessary had I gone without all of the interventions leading up to the C-section. At that point, the C-section was necessary but I definitely mourned the experience of not having a second vaginal birth. I feel like a lot of women feel that way because it's like, “Well, your baby is here and you're fine. Your birth wasn't even traumatic, so what's the matter?” But you're more than allowed to mourn a birth experience that you didn't get to have. Meagan: Right. Julie and I have talked about that all of these years on the podcast. It's okay to be happy for your baby and everything but also mourn. You don't have to only be happy or only be mourning or grieving the experience. They can go together. You can grieve the experience that you didn't receive while also being happy for your newborn baby. Mikaella: Exactly. Julie: Yep. It's complicated. It feels complicated, but it's not morally right or morally wrong to mourn the loss of a birth experience you wanted while being incredibly excited about your new baby. It's not. It's not morally right or morally wrong. It just is. It's okay to feel these things. It's okay to sit with them and it's okay for it to feel complicated. Meagan: Absolutely. Okay, ladies well thank you so much again for being here with us today. I do. I love your story. Honestly, I long for that birth. We're done having kids. We definitely are not having anymore, but I kind of long for it. Those fast, precipitous births can be really, really crazy and very intense because your body is doing a lot but it kind of sounds really fun too. Mikaella: I honestly enjoyed it. Out of all three, that was my most enjoyable birth and the easiest recovery afterward. I got to experience spontaneous pushing or the pushing reflex. The ejection reflex was so incredible because, with my other two, I pushed for hours and hours. It started as, “Let's do practice pushing,” and then it was just pushing and pushing. It was exhausting. So getting to feel the ejection reflex was honestly awesome. Painful, but it was awesome. Getting to just check all of those things off of my list and knowing that I can do it and taking charge of my own birth there at the end was really incredible. Meagan: I love it. Well, thank you. On that note, we will just leave on the positive. It was incredible, that positive note. Thank you again, both of you. Mikaella: Thank you. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Jackie's first birth was a beautiful, well-informed, planned gentle Cesarean due to breech presentation. After putting everything in place for a VBAC, Jackie was ready for it all. However, after pushing for hours on end with limited support due to the newness of COVID, Jackie consented to another C-section. Surgery didn't go as smoothly this time around, and Jackie did NOT want to be in that situation ever again. With her third, Jackie found incredible, VBA2C-supportive midwives who validated every birth desire she had. Since her first TOLAC was 48 hours, she knew a 2-hour drive to the hospital was no big deal. Until…labor came fast and furious. Did she make it to the hospital? Additional linksBebo Mia's Webinar Tara's WebsiteThe VBAC Link Facebook CommunityHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Meagan: Turn your love of babies and bellies into cash. If you love babies and bellies and want to provide care and support to families, then Bebo Mia's webinar is the right place for you. Get answers to those burning questions like how to be the voice you wish you had at your birth and how babies and families can be supported by doulas. Learn all about the different kinds of doulas. You can work in fertility, pregnancy, birth, postpartum, or just enjoy working with those squishy babies. Supporting families by becoming a birth worker, aka doula, is perhaps an option that hasn't even crossed your mind. That's why we want you to join this webinar. You can have great earning potential while doing something you love. Bebo Mia is the one-stop shop for education, community, and mentorship. Reserve your spot today at bebomia.com/freewebinar.Welcome, welcome. This is Meagan Heaton with The VBAC Link and we have a cohost today. I am so excited to start welcoming in some cohosts. These are actually our VBAC doulas and birth workers. Welcome, Tara. Thank you so much for being with us. Tara: Thank you. It's awesome to be here. Meagan: It's super fun. It's been something I've wanted to do for a long time and I thought it would be fun. It just adds some different vibes to the podcast. You guys are all over the world too so it's fun to hear your stories and your tidbits and what you see. At the end, we are going to let her share some information as well. Review of the WeekWithout further ado, we always have a review and just a reminder, if you guys have not left a review, we always love them and welcome them. You can leave them on Apple Podcasts. You can shoot us an email. You can go to Facebook and write one there. You can even Google The VBAC Link and leave us a review there. Wherever it may be, where you are comfortable, drop us a review. It may be read next on the podcast. Okay Tara, if you wouldn't mind reading someone's amazing review. Tara: Yeah, I got it. This is from Paige who reviewed The VBAC Course. Meagan: Oh yes. So not the podcast but the course. Tara: She says, “This course is as comprehensive and user-friendly as it gets. The workbook is so beautiful and the information is so easy to find. I used the data pages more than once when interviewing providers and discussing hospital policies in preparing for my VBAC after two Cesareans. I felt so empowered and confident in setting myself up for a positive birth experience with these tools in hand.”So that's from Paige. Meagan: I love it. Thank you, Paige. Seriously, we have done a lot on this VBAC course. It's going to be continuing to update because birth updates all of the time. It is always updating. It is always changing, but for our VBAC students, I don't know if anybody is out there and has taken our course, I want you to know that as information comes in and as the course updates, you're always getting access to these updates. So excited, Paige. Thank you so much. Yeah, if you're interested in learning more and upping your VBAC game, then we have courses for both parents and birth workers who are wanting to find more information about VBAC and how to support VBAC. Tara, she's one of them. She's one of our VBAC doulas. We love to spotlight them and we are going to have them on the podcasts. We love our birth workers. We talk about how VBAC is something that is all over the world. I personally, as Meagan Heaton, cannot change the VBAC world alone. It's physically impossible, right? So between all of us birth workers out there and all of us parents out there learning about our options and advocating for ourselves and advocating for clients, it's going to help change the VBAC world immensely. So definitely check out the course if you are interested at thevbaclink.com. Jackie's StoryMeagan: Okay, Ms. Jackie. You are holding a brand-new baby. Tara: So cute. Meagan: Tara and I got to see this little squish when we started. Oh, I love it. It is perfect. You are fresh out of your VBAC after two C-sections. So excited. We know, we talked about it a little bit before we started. We know so many people are wanting stories about VBAC after multiple Cesareans and specifically two. So, Jackie, we would love to turn the time over to you to share this beautiful baby's story. Jackie: So I guess where you always want to start is why you had your first C-section. Meagan: Yep. Jackie: With my first baby, we lived in a rural area. Walmart in Canada was closer than Walmart in the States for us. Very rural. The closest hospital was about an hour and fifteen minutes away from us. There were three hospitals I could choose from. One was an hour fifteen, one was an hour thirty, and one was an hour twenty or something like that.So I did my research on all of the hospitals. I found the hospital with the lowest C-section rate because I was not going to have a C-section. I did all of my research, found myself awesome midwives who were going to work with me, and then I went in for a scan around 34 weeks to find out that my daughter was breech. Nobody in the rural community that we lived in or any of those hospitals would deliver a breech baby. I could travel three hours and deliver a breech baby vaginally, but I opted for the C-section. I figured it was the safest bet for where we were at. I cried a lot about that. My midwife was amazing. She comforted me because all I had heard was from my friends who had C-sections recently and how terrible their C-setions were. One of them got knocked out with general anesthesia and couldn't see her baby for six hours. Another one told me at the hospital she went to, she didn't get knocked out, but they told her she couldn't go see her baby in recovery until after she could move her legs after the C-section. Meagan: Whoa. Jackie: Yeah. I was crying my eyes out because I was like, “I'm not going to be able to see my baby at all.” I'm telling the midwife this and she goes, “No. That will not happen to you at this hospital at all. Those other two hospitals, I don't know what they are doing, but we will not allow that. Your baby will be checked over for four seconds right next to your head by the pediatrician and then she'll be with you. I will be in the operating room with you even though I don't need to be there.” I loved this midwife. She is an amazing woman. I absolutely loved her. I tried giving this third baby her name as a middle name and my husband was kind of against that. Meagan: Oh, that is so sweet of you. She must have impacted you a lot then. Jackie: She was amazing. I remember coming into the OR. They were getting me all prepped and laying me on the table. She comes in. She pulls down her mask and goes, “You can't tell who I am underneath the mask right now, but I'm here with you. I will stay with you the whole time.” I absolutely loved her. Tara: That's the best thing anyone can do is just be present like that. How many weeks were you, Jackie, when you had your C-section?Jackie: I had a scheduled C-section at 39 weeks. They wanted to make it a little bit later than that, but I wanted my child to be born on the 22nd, so I chose the 22nd. I said if I had to have a C-section, I wanted my baby born on the 22nd. My birthday is the 22nd. My husband and I got married on the 22nd and then his birthday is 2/11 which multiplies to 22. Tara: That was special. Jackie: I was going to have my baby on the 22nd. They were like, “All right. Well, we would like it to be closer to 40 weeks.” I go, “It's 39 weeks. It will be fine.” Tara: The silver lining of choosing the date is at least you can have a little bit of control over that, right?Jackie: Yes. Having a planned C-section I guess, made it easy. We were able to drive down the night before the C-section. Again, we were driving an hour and a half for this and they wanted us there at 6:00 a.m. So we drove down the night before. It went so smoothly. Everything that I wanted, I researched everything I could for a gentle Cesarean. I had a gentle Cesarean and they had the leads for the monitors on my back. They put the IV where I wanted it. They helped me take off my gown and put the baby right onto my chest as soon as the pediatrician was done after two minutes with her. It was a perfectly done C-section. Everything I wanted went well. Baby didn't leave my chest until my husband, I think, probably a couple of hours after I had her goes, “Do you think I could hold her now?” I was like, “I guess so.” They were great. They postponed any weights. They postponed wiping her down. She still had blood all over her. It was the perfect C-section if you had to have a C-section. With my second, it was the time of COVID. She was born in May of 2020, so a beautiful COVID baby. Her due date was the day after my first daughter's due date, so they are exactly two years apart. We planned it out perfectly with the dates so I had the two years that my midwives told me I had to have to be able to have my VBAC. Because of COVID, they started doing only phone appointments and if I went in, I always made sure to schedule my favorite midwife because I absolutely loved her. She'd be measuring me. She'd be like, “You're measuring a week ahead. You're measuring a week and a half ahead, no big deal.” She didn't have any concerns with that. At my 39-week appointment, I had it with the head midwife of the department and she got very concerned that I was going to be having a VBAC and my fundal height was measuring larger, like a week and a half, two weeks ahead at that point. She sent me for a growth scan that I had to have immediately. So I scheduled it. I think it was three days after that appointment. I scheduled it with the ultrasound people. I think I was 40 weeks exactly that day. I went in to the scan and I said, “Don't tell me it's breech,” because I had already been fearful that this would be a breech baby again. He said, “Nope, you are not breech, but you are measuring about 10 pounds for this baby.” I was like, “You've got to be kidding me.” I was freaking out because I knew they'd probably say that I couldn't have my VBAC because I was having this big baby and as a tiny, rural hospital without anesthesia on staff, they can't handle that sort of thing. He tried comforting me, telling me, “Don't worry. These scans can be two pounds over or under. You're probably having an 8-pound baby. Don't worry about it.” I was like, “Okay.” When my midwife got the results, the next day I was 40+1 and she said, “Nope. Your baby is measuring 10 pounds. We can't have you do that here. If you want, you can come in for a C-section today.” I said, “Well, I don't want to have a C-section.” I already had talked to the larger hospital that I would have to go to if I were to go. At the rural hospital, they were going to allow me to go 10 days past my due date and if I was going to be pregnant for more than 10 days past my due date, I had to go to this larger hospital. Meagan: Oh man. Jackie: So I had already had my phone interview with the MFM at the larger hospital. We discussed if I needed to have an induction because I was past the date by more than 10 days and they were all on board with that. They understood that it was going to be a VBAC. They were fine with everything. Actually, the night before, I started having contractions that I told the person in the interview about. I said, “Well, last night, I had contractions. This morning, they've gone away, but hopefully, I have this baby and I don't need to come to see you guys.”Tara: Jackie, can I ask you, what was the birth weight of your first baby? Jackie: 7 pounds, 2 ounces. Tara: Okay, so that would be a big difference. Jackie: I did have gestational diabetes with the first one. Meagan: That's still a small baby. Jackie: Yes, but I monitored my sugars religiously with her because if I did not have good sugar numbers, I would risk out of the midwives and have to be with the OBs, so I made sure that every little thing that went inside of me was the right amount of sugar and the right amount of everything, so I maintained my gestational diabetes with her amazingly. The second one, I did not get classified with gestational diabetes, but again, it was COVID and I was baking every single day with my two-year-old to keep her busy and eating every single new cookie we discovered and new bread and everything we were making because that's what you have to do when you're stuck in quarantine, I guess. Tara: Yeah, COVID brought on the baking for a lot of us. Jackie: Yeah, and most likely with gestational diabetes, it probably wasn't the best idea. Even though I had tested negative for it, I should have maintained those sugars better, I guess. The midwife called back and told me, “It is a 10-pound baby. It's not going to happen. You're going to have to go to this other hospital or have a C-section with us.” They contacted the other hospital. The other hospital called me back and said, “Hey, you can come in for an induction tonight. When can you be here?” I said, “Well, we've got to pack up, and then we can drive down there.” This hospital is about 3 hours away from us. I said, “Oh, it's going to take me 3 hours.” “Yeah, we will definitely have a bed for you in 3 hours. Come on down now.” So my husband and I drove down as I'm having contractions again all the way down there as he was hitting every single railroad track there was because that's what you do in a rural community. There are lots of railroad tracks. We get down there and they were going to check me, but then there was somebody actually having a baby, so the OB that was there stepped out and went and delivered that baby then came back in. They checked me and I think I was at 5 centimeters or something like that. I told them that I didn't sleep the night before because I was having little contractions and I was too excited to sleep. I asked for something just basically to let me get some rest. They gave me something in an IV. I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was a lovely concoction of something and I went into their birth pool/tub thing and just floated around all night long with whatever they gave me. My husband kept telling me that I kept falling asleep and snoring in the pool while he was there. He kept having to be like, “All right, let's make sure she doesn't drown now.”Tara: Yeah. I'm glad he was with you. Jackie: But I got some rest and that was nice. In the morning, they had me come out because they needed to do rounds or whatever and the new OB was going to check me. They checked me and I was at 8 centimeters. Tara: Wow. Jackie: I was basically told– also, they had been giving me Pitocin– I think it was at 2 is what they had told me– the whole night to get contractions going even though I already had contractions going. It was at 8:00 in the morning and they told me basically, “This baby is going to be a 10-pound baby. We are going to need to use forceps to get this baby out. You should probably think about getting an epidural now.”I thought, “Well, I'm at an 8 already and they always say to wait until you get to 6 centimeters. 8 sounds good. I'll get the epidural,” because the idea of giant forceps did not impress me very much. It sounded very painful, so I said, “Sure. We'll take the epidural.” I got some sleep from the epidural too which was nice, but then they checked me a few hours later and I think I was at a 9. A few hours later, still at a 9. At one point, the doctor– it must have been close to 6:00– came in and said, “Hey. You're still at a 9. We're going to do a C-section.” My husband is not very good physically with labor and birth and all of that stuff, but he is amazing at advocating for me and he knew what I wanted. He knew I wanted this VBAC. He talked to the doctor and pulled him aside and said, “No. She wants this VBAC. You obviously want to go home. You go home. We will wait three or four hours and we will reassess the new doctor coming in.” He has listened to The VBAC Link with me. He has listened to other podcasts with me and he knows. Meagan: Oh, I love that. That's amazing. Tara: That is amazing. Jackie: But he was like, “We'll see who else comes in. We will reassess then. She really wants this, so you can leave. Nothing is wrong with the baby. Nothing is wrong with her.” They were like, “No. Nothing's wrong.” So that doctor went home for the night. A new doctor came in. Three hours later when we gave him a timeline, he said, “Hey. You're still at a 9. We're going to do a C-section now.” My husband turned to me and said, “We took the time and we were still there.” In the meantime, between that three hours, I was looking up all of the different things that I could do. The flying cowgirl–Meagan: I was going to say, was there anybody offering any suggestions or saying, “Okay. This is why we think you are at a 9,” or “Okay, the front of your cervix is thicker than the back.” Was there any of that communication or was it just like, “Oh, you're still there?”Jackie: I'm blaming COVID still because nobody was coming into the room at all. Nobody would come into the room because it was the beginning of COVID, nobody knows with COVID what was going on. I had no nurses coming in. A nurse would come in every once in a while to make sure the monitor was on my stomach correctly if it lost, but other than that, nope. Nobody was coming in. It was basically me on Google figuring out what I could do. I asked for a peanut ball. I had the peanut ball, going back and forth on the peanut ball. I moved the bed around at one point. I called her in. I said, “I can feel my legs. Can I just get up and walk?” She was like, “No. You can't. You have an epidural.”Tara: Jackie, do you know how high the baby was when you were at 9 for a while?Jackie: Zero. Tara: Oh, so it was pretty well engaged. Jackie: Yeah. So again, I blame everything on COVID. That's what I'm going to keep telling myself not that it was the hospital or anything. I'm just going to say that it was COVID. I told the MFM I had this time about that and he goes, “Yeah. I think they just didn't wait. I blame COVID too.” I was like, “Thanks, dude.” Meagan: Yeah. You're like, “Thanks for validating me.”Jackie: Yes. Thank you for that one. So I ended up having a C-section with that one which, an unplanned C-section was not the best. The epidural I had was causing problems. At one point, it pulled out while I was in labor still. I didn't realize and I thought I was just being a wimp and being like, “Oh, I could feel this through my epidural.” They're like, “Oh, no. You pulled it out.” When I went into the OR, I told the guy, I was like, “I can feel my legs. I can feel everything. I could stand up right now if you want.” He was like, “No, you're fine. I'll just put more into this epidural. You'll be fine.” I was like, “I can feel everything.” I was arguing with him that my epidural wasn't working. He told me, “Fine. I'll put you under general anesthesia then.” I said, “No.” I was like, “No. You will not. I am fine. My baby is fine. I don't want to do this. Get me out of this OR. Get my husband. Get me out of here. I am not having a C-section if this is the way it's going to be.”I started yelling at him and he told me that I needed to calm down, that it was not a big deal, and just was the absolute opposite of the anesthesiologist that I had in my first birth who was doing everything she could do to make me feel great. This one was just arguing with me. So he told me if I keep up whatever I was doing and don't calm down, then he was just going to put me under general anesthesia. So I just yelled at him I said, “Fine. Cut me open now then. I really don't care. You're not putting me under. Just cut me open. I don't care if I can feel it.” So they tested it out and I couldn't feel it as much as I thought I was going to be able to feel it, but I could still feel it much more than I did in my spinal for my first one. They did the C-section. My husband was there and I got pain between my shoulder blades from the epidural and I couldn't lie down. He was telling me that he was going to have to strap me down because I was going to grab at my belly and I have to be strapped down for this. I was like, “My first C-section, I was not strapped down. They didn't even argue with me that it was fine.” He goes, “No. C-sections you have to be strapped down for.” So then when I started complaining about my back hurting and I couldn't lay down, he unstrapped my arms, that way he could turn me to my side and make it so my back wouldn't hurt. They took the baby out and instead of the baby coming straight to me, they took the baby and wiped her all down. They measured her. They did all of that stuff. I had my husband go over onto that side, which, he is really squeamish so he was not happy about being on the other side of the curtain. Tara: I'm waiting for the drumroll of the birth weight. Jackie: She was 9 pounds, 15 ounces. Tara: Oh, so they were pretty close. Jackie: Yeah, yeah. They were an ounce off. She was a giant baby. She was in the 99th percentile in head, height, and weight, and she has maintained that 99th percentile in the two years of her life. She got down to the 95th percentile at her 2-year appointment, but yeah. She's just a big kid. Meagan: Hey, though. We had Katrina, one of our doulas, talk about a VBAC client. It was 11 pounds, something. Jackie: Wow. Meagan: So 9 pounds is pretty small compared to that. Tara: It's not all about the size. Meagan: It's not all about the size, yeah. Jackie: Yep. 9 pounds, 15 ounces, and I still think that I would have been able to have the baby just fine. Tara: Yeah, you got most of the way there. I mean, you're kind of one of those people that did both. Meagan: Yeah. You did both. Yeah. That's hard. Jackie: At my six-week appointment with my midwives, I came in and talked to them. I said, “So, when can I have a VBAC after two Cesareans?” Six weeks later, I'm already asking them. I asked the OB while I was at the large hospital if they did VBAC after two Cesareans and they said, “Yep. You can come down for that if you have another kid.” When I was back at my little rural hospital, the OB there– there was a new OB and she said, “Oh yeah. I don't see why you couldn't have one. That would be fine. Just don't have a big baby this time.” My midwife looked it up and she found online that they don't have a policy against a VBAC after two Cesareans either, so she said, “Oh yeah. You can definitely do this.” Tara: Wow. Meagan: That's so hard. That's a lot of pressure. “Don't have a big baby this time.” Jackie: Yep. Just don't have a big baby this time. Meagan: Yeah, kind of hard to totally control. I mean, you can obviously do your best. Jackie: So when we got pregnant with our third, I went and met with them, and we discussed VBAC after two Cesareans. They told me two years ago that it was still in the plan. My midwife says, “Well, let me talk to the head OB person at this small hospital.” There are three midwives. I believe there are two or three OBs. She talked to the OB and the OB said, “No. You had a 10-pound baby last time. We will not allow you to have a VBAC after two Cesareans.” I said, “Okay. Well, when do I transfer over to the big hospital then? It's a longer drive. I don't really want to make that drive for my appointments. Can I do my appointments with you guys and then I'll transfer over later?” They said, “That's fine. Stay with us as long as you need to and then we'll figure this out.” I said, “Okay.” In the meantime, they checked to see if I had gestational diabetes because after having gestational diabetes and then having a large baby, they assumed that I'm going to have it again. I failed the one-hour and then passed the three-hour. I passed the one-hour at 18 weeks at this one, and then I did it again at 28 weeks and I failed the one-hour, and then I had to do it again for the three-hour. According to the numbers in Vermont, I would have failed by one point and been diagnosed with gestational diabetes. I might add at the time, we also moved states. At 28 weeks, we moved from New Hampshire to New York. Again, a nice rural community in the middle of nowhere. So at 28 weeks, I had them do the test, but I also had them prescribe the stuff for gestational diabetes so that way I could monitor my sugars and make sure that I don't have a giant baby. While we were in New Hampshire, I started researching and asking on The VBAC Link Community Facebook group, asking mom groups in the area where we are in New York where I could have a VBAC after two Cesareans. I did all of my research on the different cities that were close to us. I say close because both of them were about two hours away from us to find out where I could have this. Somebody recommended that I have a home birth. I was like, “Sure. I would love that idea because I wouldn't have to go anywhere. It sounds like a great idea,” but in New York state, if you are having a VBAC after two Cesareans, you have to have it in a hospital. You can't have it in a birth center. You can't have it at home. That was kind of a bummer because I found a midwife local to us who does them in Pennsylvania because Pennsylvania would allow it, but New York doesn't. I found a hospital with midwives in Rochester, New York and I talked to them. They had a Facebook Live Meet Your Midwife one day. I talked to them and I asked them some questions. I said, “Could I have a VBAC after two Cesareans?” They said, “Well, why do you need to specify that it's after two Cesareans?” I said, “A lot of places won't allow you to do it after two Cesareans.” They were like, “No. It's just a VBAC.” They didn't seem to have a problem with that. I said, “Well, what if I have a large baby because my last one was 10 pounds? Could I still have my VBAC?” They were like, “10 pounds really isn't that big.” I was like, “Okay. I'm liking these answers.”Tara: That's incredible. Jackie: I'm liking these answers so far. Meagan: You're like, “I'm not going to disagree with you.” Jackie: Yep, and then I asked, “What if I have gestational diabetes because I know some places when you have gestational diabetes, you risk out of being able to have the midwives. You end up with OBs.” They said, “Why would you have to have midwives if you have gestational diabetes?” Everything that I was told before, they were just like, that doesn't make any sense. Tara: Wow. Meagan: They were pushing back on you. They were like, “Hey, listen.” Tara: They were like, “We don't think that this is a problem.” Meagan: We have VBAC statistics for you. Jackie: Yeah, so after that Facebook Live event or something, after that, I was like, “All right. I think I have found where I want to go.” Then we went to see my mother-in-law and we get a text from our friend saying, “Hey, you guys were at our party this past weekend and somebody at the party just tested positive for COVID.” So we took our tests right there at our mother-in-law's house and we tested positive for COVID.Tara: Oh no. Jackie: So my first appointment got to be a virtual appointment because of COVID. We all tested positive. Meagan: Bummer. Jackie: It was a bummer having to quarantine and do all of that fun stuff. So a couple of weeks later, after I'm out of the COVID quarantine, I got to actually go up and meet my midwives. A large midwife place with a waiting room that actually people are in, it was a lot different than my tiny little hospital in the middle of nowhere in Vermont. I met with the midwives there. I explained to them that according to the numbers that my midwives pulled for the gestational diabetes screen that I have gestational diabetes. I read them the numbers that I had from my chart. They looked at me and said, “No. That's not gestational diabetes. Our cutoff is 185, not 180 here in New York.” So now I don't have gestational diabetes anymore and I told them that I would like to keep my monitor going, just to continue monitoring because I didn't want to have a giant baby again. They were okay with that and they just took it off of my chart. I drove two hours every two weeks, then every one week to all of those appointments all the way up to Rochester to meet with these midwives. Anytime I went in with a concern, they basically told me, “Nope, that's fine. You can have your VBAC.” I also hired a doula in the area too because it was recommended by my favorite midwife up in Vermont that if I'm going to be somewhere new with people I don't know, I should have a doula who could help support me. I agreed with that, so we got ourselves a doula. Now we are talking about the lovely birth story. My doula kept contacting me and I kept telling her, “Nope, I'm going to go late. I'm not going to go to 40 weeks. It will be more than 40 weeks. I will have this baby inside of me forever. This pregnancy is so easy compared to my other two. I'm not in pain. I could be pregnant for 42 weeks and not even care, but I definitely can't have my baby this week.” She's like, “Why?” I said, “Well, my husband is a teacher. It's the first day of school.” It was Labor Day weekend, so his first day of school was the day after Labor Day and my oldest is starting preschool at a new preschool. I don't want to ruin this week for them. It's their first week back to school and I can't have my baby this week. Maybe next weekend I'll have the baby. It'll work out then.” My doula was like, “Okay, whatever you say. This baby can come whenever they want, but sure. You can go late. Whatever.” My kid and my husband have their first day of school. Everything goes great. That night, I put my kids to bed and I started having little contractions like I did with my second. I was like, “Well, it's probably just going to keep me awake all night.” I had heard many a birth story on here that said to take some Benadryl, take some Tylenol and try to sleep through it. That's what I did. I took some Benadryl. I took some Tylenol and I slept through it. I'd wake up every once in a while. Around midnight, I was like, “Maybe I should start timing these and figure out what's going on.” They were coming 5-10 minutes apart or something like that. They weren't consistent. I could sleep through a lot of it, so I just said, “All right. I'll take some more Benadryl and Tylenol and just keep sleeping.” My two-year-old crawled into bed with me and while having contractions, trying to sleep with contractions and a two-year-old was not very fun. I snuck out of the room and slept on the couch. I was timing the contractions there. My two-year-old started crying, looking for me and asking where I was, so I went back upstairs and snuggled her in her bed. The contractions were still happening. I was like, “This is strange. Last time, basically when I woke up, they went away.”But whatever. They weren't very painful and I could sleep through them so I didn't think anything was happening. My husband gets up for his second day of school. He's in the shower and I said, “Hey, don't get too excited to be at school. Don't get too excited about this.” I go, “I've been having contractions. They're probably going to fizzle out when the sun comes up. Don't worry about it, but maybe have some plans together for the afternoon because I'll probably call you and say ‘Hey, we need to go to the hospital.'”He said, “Oh, you think you're going to have the baby?” I said, “I don't know, but just have some plans just in case.” I get my four-year-old dressed and send my husband and her to school. I bring my two-year-old out to our makeshift living area in the barn. I climbed the stairs to the barn. I'm making us breakfast and all of a sudden, my contractions went from, “Oh, this is nothing. I can sleep through it,” to “Maybe I should have not sent them to school. This is not feeling right.” I'm having contractions now a lot closer together. They are a lot more painful, and I'm trying to breathe through them, and my two-year-old is copying me and making fun of me. Tara: Does your doula know yet? Jackie: I sent her a text at this point. I said, “Hey, just letting you know.” She's like, “All right.” I go, “It's probably nothing.” Again, I don't think anything is going to happen. I was in labor for 48 hours with the other one. Nothing is going to happen anytime soon. I didn't want to worry her. I did send a text to my mother-in-law too because she lives about 45 minutes away. I said, “Hey, if you get dressed and ready for the day, do you think you could come on over to the house instead of going to work today? Would that be okay?” She was like, “Yeah. That would be fine. I'll be over after my shower.” I said, “Okay.” They picked up a lot more. My doula texted me and she said, “Maybe you should hop in the shower until your husband gets back,” because I hadn't been able to get a hold of him. His school had been in the news because they said, “No cell phones at all for kids,” so he was making sure that his cell phone was not even seen in the school building, so I can't get a hold of him even though I told him to keep an eye out for me.I'm trying to text him. My doula says to hop in the shower. I was like, “Yeah, you're right. I'll probably hop in the shower and this will all go away.” So I bring my two-year-old inside. On the way inside, we have our crew who is working on the house is all there and they volunteered the day before to take me to the hospital if I needed it, so I'm trying to not show them that I'm in labor at all. I'm hiding my facial expressions like, “This is no big deal. Construction crew, you're fine to stay here.” I bring my two-year-old and set her in front of the TV and hop into the shower. I tried calling my husband's school and I realized that I can't get through the automated messaging system to find out how to get ahold of my husband at his new school before another contraction comes. So I texted my mother–in–law and I said, “You need to call him. I can't do this and he's not answering.” She asked what the telephone number is and I'm like, “I don't know. Google it.” I could not even think through these contractions. All of a sudden—Tara: It was getting serious. Meagan: Stop talking to me. Jackie: They were awful. I did not have contractions like this with my second and again, I dilated to 8 centimeters. I was just like, “I've got to get in the shower.” I get in the shower and I'm sitting there. I sat there until the water ran out of hot water and I plugged the tub before that because I was like, “Well, maybe sitting in a tub would be nice too.” So when the water ran out of hot water, I am now laying in the tub and I am screaming at the top of my lungs. I'm just thinking about the work crew who was on the other side of this wall in our kitchen working on making our kitchen and I'm just screaming at the top of my lungs. My two-year-old keeps walking in asking for something and I'm just yelling at her to get out. She's like, “Mom, mom, mom, mom I hurt my nose,” and I'm like, “I don't care. Get out of here,” just screaming. It was just so painful. All of a sudden, my husband walks in and he goes, “Uh-oh, what's going on?” And I'm like, “I'm having a baby.” Obviously, you can hear me screaming. He was like, “Well, the entire crew was standing outside in a huddle like, ‘What should we do?'” I'm yelling orders at him now and I'm like, “You need to get the bag.” He's like, “Okay. I've got the bag.” I was like, “You need to get my dress.” He comes down with– I don't remember what dress he came down with. I was like, “No. There is a black dress in the closet. Go get me my black dress. I'm not going to be able to put clothes on. Go get that.” He goes up and gets me the dress. He comes in and he goes, “My mom's here, so we don't need to take the girls with us.” I was like, “Thank god,” because I was going to leave the girls with the workers. I wasn't going to care right then. The workers can watch our children. I was done. Slowly, I get out. I tell him, “Yes. Put the dress on me,” because there was no way I was going to be able to dress myself. I tell him to grab my shoes because, for my first two children, I went home barefoot because I did not have my shoes. This one, I wanted to make sure I had my shoes so I had him grab my shoes. Tara: Good tip to put out there. Jackie: Yeah, I went home barefoot for a third time too, so I'll explain that afterward. I get into his truck and I can't sit down. I said, “Get a towel to put under me just in case my water breaks.” I'm just screaming and obscenities are coming out of my mouth. I feel terrible because my kids are looking at me like, “What the heck is going on?” They only know about Cesareans because that's all I've had. Those are the pictures that I have shown them. So I was basically standing up in the front seat of his truck just standing there screaming, “Drive!” We live on dirt roads, so the entire time, I'm cursing the dirt roads because it's all bumpy. Tara: And you had a two-hour drive to the hospital, is that right? Jackie: Yes. We had a two-hour drive to the hospital, but I am certain that I'm going to make it because my last labor was so long. There was no way that we were not going to make it. We were driving two hours. So we're driving and our little town is having its bridge work done, so we have one red light now. And of course, we hit that one red light. Tara: Figures.Jackie: I'm now cursing at the red light and my husband is like, “Really?” He's just laughing inside himself because it's like, this is what's happening. Exactly. We have one red light and this is what we're doing. We're hitting the red light. I keep screaming obscenities at it. Tara: This is your moment to blow that red light, right? Jackie: Yeah. If you could see the other side of the bridge and didn't know if people were coming across, or knew people were coming, I probably would have told him to do so. Tara: You probably don't need a head-on collision at that point. Jackie: In our mommy group that I am in on Facebook or the due date group or whatever, the day before I think it was, there was some girl who was like, “I almost had a car birth,” and I was like, “Well, I'd take a car birth over a Cesarean any day.” And I'm thinking to myself, “Did I just wish this upon myself? Am I going to have this baby in this car?”We've got two hours to drive. All of the little hospitals around us don't do VBACs, not even VBACs after Cesareans. They don't do VBACs at all, so any chance in my head that I'm going to get a VBAC is, “I have to drive two hours. I have to get to this hospital.” My husband's driving. We make it about two exits down the highway and I'm telling him, “You need to call the midwife group.” The midwife group has two different locations and he's calling the one on speakerphone that is the second location. I'm like, “No. That's not the right one. You need to call this one.” So he calls that one. He tells him that we are on our way and they ask, “How often are her contractions coming?” I just yell, “Too close together! We're coming. We're not going to stop this.” I had him call my doula. He was talking to my doula and she says, “Is that her in the background?” He goes, “Yeah, that's her.” She goes, “Stop the car right now. Call 911. Get an ambulance.” I'm like, “No. We don't need an ambulance. Just keep driving. You're going to slow us down. Just get there.” I'll add that he was using Google to get there because he hadn't been to any of my appointments and he's never been to this city really at all. Meagan: Oh gosh. Jackie: So he's following Google and the way Google takes you is back roads through Amish country because we live in an Amish country. I'm like, “No. Get back on the highway. I don't care if it's two minutes longer. You're driving on the highway. I am not going through Amish country and getting stopped by a buggy or getting stopped by a train. Stay on the highway.” We're two exits down and he's like, “Okay, well the doula said to call an ambulance. I'm calling an ambulance.” I'm like, “Okay. Call the ambulance. You're overreacting, but whatever,” as I'm screaming. Tara: You are a multi-tasking queen, Jackie. Meagan: Uh-huh. Jackie: Behind us, a trooper pulls up and my husband tells me, “Oh look, the ambulance is coming.” I'm like, “That's not the ambulance. That's a trooper. He's not going to be able to help us with anything.” The trooper comes over–Meagan: Escort you. Jackie: He goes, “The ambulance will be here in a second. They're right behind me.” The ambulance pulls up and I'm still standing in the front of the truck. No seatbelt, nothing. I can't even kneel down or sit down in this truck. I'm just standing and screaming. The guy from the ambulance comes in and says, “Okay, I'm going to need you to get on the stretcher.” I said, “I can't move.” I'm yelling at him. He goes, “Childbirth isn't that bad.” Meagan: Ohh. Jackie: I looked at him and I just screamed again more obscenities. I have my four-year-old and two-year-old watching TV in front of me, so I will not be screaming those obscenities. But I was like, “You're a man. You have no say in this. You have no idea what this is like. You cannot tell me it is not that bad.” He was like, “I've delivered many babies. I've delivered five of my own from my wife.” I am just like, “Yeah. You did not have a baby.” I am yelling at him. He's like, “Well, I need you to get on the stretcher.” Somehow, I managed to get on the stretcher, but I am on the stretcher on my hands and knees again, holding onto the top of it. He tells me, “No. You have to roll over. You have to lay on your back.” I told him, “There's no way I'm going to roll over. There's no way I'm going to lay on my back. I'm good like this.” After arguing with me for a few minutes that it's not safe and that I can't go like that, he finally decides to put this seatbelt or whatever the stretcher has around the back of my legs and wheels me into the ambulance. With him, he's got another guy with him I believe and there's this young girl. The young girl is obviously very new to being an EMT. At one point, I hear him thank her for coming because they needed a female to come I guess, but she had no idea about anything with birth or anything. Tara: Her eyes are wide. Jackie: Yep, yep. I'm yelling at her to squeeze my hips because I'm in so much pain. My husband was squeezing my hips in the truck for me for each contraction. After everything was said and done, my husband told me that if we have a fourth, which before, he told me absolutely not we were never having another kid after three. If we have a fourth, he needs to go to the gym and work on whatever muscles he needs to be able to squeeze hips because he has no muscle there. Tara: That's right. It's hard work, isn't it, Meagan? Meagan: Mhmm. Jackie: I yelled, “This is why I needed a doula. She knows what to do.” Meagan: Yeah. Well, and that's another pro of a doula too is that they can switch off. Jackie: Yes. That's what I was looking forward to. I was going to have this really long labor and they were going to switch off when his arms got tired, her arms would pop in and it would be wonderful. But I'm in the ambulance and I'm yelling at this poor, young girl that she needs to squeeze my hips. The guy is trying to tell her, “You've got to squeeze her hips. That's what she wants.”Then my body decides that it is going to start pushing on its own, but not push out a baby, but push out poop which–Meagan: Mhmm, that comes first sometimes. Jackie: I read that all the things said, “Yeah, if it happens, people will just wipe it up and you'll never even know.” I'm yelling at the girl like, “I apologize that this is happening.” She's looking at the guy like, “What do I do?” He's like, “Just don't worry about it. Just don't worry about it.” With every contraction now, I am now pooping and extremely embarrassed by this and screaming because I am in so much pain. The guy who has delivered so many babies and said childbirth isn't that bad tells me that I need to relax so that he can put an IV in my hand. Meagan: Oh boy. Jackie: I tell him that if he wants me to relax, then he needs to give me some drugs. He tells me that he can't give me any drugs because I'm having a baby and there are no drugs that are safe for a baby. Tara: Oh dear. Jackie: He goes, “Well, if I get this IV in you, at the hospital, they'll be able to give you some drugs.” I said, “Okay.” So I managed to somehow stop squeezing my hand and let him have it. He got the IV in. We pull up to the hospital and they rolled me into the hospital. There were probably about, my husband said he counted 25 people in the room. One of the nurses I talked to later said he counted at least 30 people in the room. It's an ER room because this hospital does not have a maternity ward at all, so they don't deliver babies at all which was a surprise to me especially when I asked for drugs and they told me that they couldn't give me anything. The EMT guy promised me that they would be able to give me drugs. Tara: So that's a good point, Jackie, because if you call an ambulance, they have to take you to the nearest hospital, right? Meagan: Mhmm. Jackie: Yes. Tara: Yeah. So he wasn't able to take you to the one that you had intended to give birth at. Jackie: Right. But I still thought that they would take me to one where I would give birth at. 30 minutes north of this hospital, there was a hospital that I ended up being transferred to after I gave birth that does have a maternity ward. But yep, they brought me to the closest one possible. They had again, no maternity ward. Nobody has delivered babies. Tara: But the entire staff standing by. Jackie: Oh yeah. The entire staff, I'm pretty sure, of this hospital, standing in the room with me. My husband was like, “I had nothing to do during your labor. I walked in.” First of all, he followed Google again and did not end up at the right hospital and then was like, “Oh, wait a second. I know what hospital this is. I'm pretty sure we've passed it before.” He said that he walked in and he had my bag and my birth plan. He hands my birth plan to the nurse and the nurse goes, “We don't have time for that.” He was like, “Okay. I remembered the one thing that I had to remember and they don't even want it.” He goes, “I got in there. They put me behind you,” or at my head, because I'm still on my hands and knees on top of the stretcher right now. He goes, “There were so many people around, I had nothing to do.” He goes, “You had two people who were wiping your forehead for you. You had three people who were holding your hand for you. You had someone who was wiping your butt.” He goes, “Every single person had something to do and I was just standing there looking like an idiot. There were so many people in that room.” I was like, “Yeah, it was a lot different than our second labor where we were the only two people in the room.” So we're in there with all of the people staring at me. There was a sweet woman up by my head who kept telling me wonderfully nice things and if I wasn't in labor, I would probably hug her and tell her that she was a wonderful person, but I was in so much panic yelling at her to just shut her mouth and be quiet and all of these terrible things that I feel so bad about now. At one point, she advises whoever is on the other side of me, I don't know, to maybe shut the blinds to the ER room because it's all glass. So you walk into the ER and what you see was my behind as I'm trying to give birth on the stretcher with 25 people around me. I was very thankful she said they should probably shut all of these blinds so people weren't watching. They have someone come in and they tell me that this is a pediatrician. She has delivered babies before, so it's going to be okay. That's my first hint that they don't have anybody to deliver babies at this hospital, that there is a pediatrician here now and she has delivered babies. It's okay. The pediatrician decides that she needs to check me and in the middle of a contraction, shoves her hand up and I'm just screaming. I'm like, “Get your hand out of me.” I started kicking her which, again, I feel terrible about. I apologized for it after the fact, but I definitely kicked her a couple of times telling her to get away from me. They kept telling me that I had to be on my back to be checked and I told them, “No,” that you can have babies on your knees. “I'm not laying on my back. I can't do that. I can't roll over.” I again involuntarily am pushing so much poop out of myself which, again, no one prepares you for that. Everyone tells you, “Oh no. Don't worry about it. No one is even going to notice.” Everybody knew it was happening. My husband knew it was happening. There was poop in front of me on the stretcher. There was just poop everywhere and I was so embarrassed. I was like, “Nobody told you that this much would happen.” At some point, they told me that I am pushing out this baby. I think it was at 9:30 a.m. when my husband called the ambulance and we were at the hospital by probably 9:50, maybe 10:00. We were there and the pediatrician starts telling me, “You've just got to start pushing. Just keep pushing. Keep pushing.” I'm like, “There's no way I'm having this baby.” I went 48 hours with the last one. I was barely having contractions an hour ago. There is no way this baby is coming out of me. She was like, “You've got to push. You've got to push. You've got to push.” I start pushing and then they finally convince me to roll over that I might be able to push better in that position, so I roll over to that position. I think it was three or four more pushes, and out popped a baby.    At some point, I thought that she again was trying to find out where my cervix was and had her hand up inside of me and I am yelling at her to stop that. She's like, “It's not me. Your baby is coming out.” Again, I did not believe that there was a baby going to be born. I could not believe it at all. When she came out, I was again shocked like, “I just had a baby and it wasn't a C-section.” This didn't make any sense to me whatsoever. I'm just sitting there in complete shock. I couldn't believe it. I felt like, “You have a —-” because we have surprises for each of our kids. They go, “What do you have?” I told them it was a surprise. They were like, “You have another girl.” My husband was like, “Oh, three girls. Just what I always wanted.” I had my VBAC after two Cesareans and again, like you said, you're just on this birth high of, “I actually did this.” I had a second-degree tear and the pediatrician person is trying to stitch me up. Again, I'm on a stretcher. I'm also covered in poop because I was kneeling in it, so there are four nurses wiping me down and giving me a sponge bath to get all of the poop off of me. My husband and I are joking that the room smells terrible and why would 25 people want to stand around and watch this because it smells so bad in that room? So that was a lot of fun. We still joke about that now even though I tell him that he can't talk about it with anybody else. They stitched me up. The pediatrician was complaining because they don't have any beds with stirrups and they don't have any beds with the broken down parts that you give birth in, so I was on an ER stretcher and she could barely get in there to do my stitches comfortably. While we're doing this, some other lady walks in and says, “Hey, just to let you know, we don't have a mother/baby wing, so you guys are going to be transferred. Do you mind going to this hospital” that was a half hour away and I was like, “Sure. I already had the baby. I guess it doesn't matter which hospital I go to now.” They get another ambulance and they put me in an ambulance and they take me to this other hospital where I saw the OB that walked in, I think, as I was pushing from that hospital, they followed that OB down about a half hour away to come. I guess I must have been pushing there for at least a half hour because the OB walked in. He comes up and said, “Is your husband coming?” “Yep. My husband will be up.” He was at the hospital. He was like, “Oh, he was the one–” my husband has got a really big, orange beard. He's like, “Oh, he's the one with the big beard.” I was like, “Yeah.” He was telling the nurse, “This guy's got a great beard.” He goes, “I thought he was a–” the way he was dressed too, he came from school, so he was in a shirt and a tie and khakis. He goes, “I thought he was the other OB that they called and he got there first and he was just watching.” He goes, “Yeah, when I got to the hospital, she was in active labor about to have this baby, one of the nurses turned to me. She goes, ‘So, are we going up to the OR now? Are we going to do the section now?'” He was like, “I turned to her. ‘She's pushing out the baby. Why would we need to go into the OR for a C-section? Just let her have the baby. She knows what she is doing.'”It just made me laugh that again, I had a VBAC after two Cesareans in a hospital that was absolutely not prepared to even deliver a baby. Tara: Wow. Jackie: I delivered the placenta. They had to look for a hemorrhage kit because they couldn't find Pitocin to give me Pitocin. My husband was like, “Hold on. Are they dusting off that box over there? Have they never seen this before?” One of the nurses who we asked how many people had come in and had babies, she goes, “Well, I've been here for a year and nobody has had a baby here yet this year.”Tara: Wow. Jackie: She goes, “That's probably why everybody was in here. They wanted to see somebody have a baby.”Tara: Yeah. You gave them a story that they will be telling for a long time. Meagan: Yeah. Jackie: It definitely was crazy. I never thought that it could happen as fast as it did. I never thought that yeah. I never thought I would have a VBAC after two Cesareans for starters, and never thought I would have one in a hospital that doesn't deliver babies. Meagan: Mhmm, yeah that doesn't even do babies. Tara: You sent your husband to work and had the baby before lunchtime.Jackie: Well, that's what I said when I had the baby. It was 10:42 when I had the baby, so again, I was texting him at 8:00 that maybe he should come home. I think we were in the car around 9:00. 10:42 is when the baby was born. I said, “Hey, you have lunch duty soon. Do you want to go back for that?” He laughed. He goes, “I think I'll take the rest of the day off.” Meagan: I think I'll stay. Tara: His adrenaline was sky-high. Jackie: He went back to school the following day. His principal was like, “Uh, you had a baby yesterday. Why are you here?” He said, “Why shouldn't I be here? She's got nurses looking after her. She's fine. My mother's with the other two kids. We're good. I can be at school.” Tara: That's the parent of a third child right there. Jackie: Very much parents of a third child. Meagan: I love it though. I love it all. It's so awesome. Such an adrenaline rush. I mean, one that so many people are never going to forget. Seriously, you did somethingJackie: I feel like I need to send them something though, like a card saying, “I'm sorry for all the obscenities. I'm sorry I was so rude to you.” Meagan: No, no. You know, we don't take anything personally as birth workers. I mean, I know they weren't birth workers, but they can't take it personally, right? Tara: That's right. Doulas always say that everything is forgiven in labor. We know that things happen. Drama happens. Words said. People get kicked. Meagan: Words get said. Things get done. I had a mom bite me one time, my hand.Jackie: Yeah. Meagan: Yeah, she just grabbed my hand and bit it. After, she was just like, “Oh, did I just bite you?” I was like, “Yep, but that's what you needed to do, so you're good. You're good.” Oh, I love it. Well, congratulations. I know you're still fresh off of this and I can just feel the energy. It's so amazing. It's so amazing. Tara: It's incredible. How are you feeling about your healing so far? It's been a short time. How's it feeling in comparison? Jackie: I was a little shocked at the fact that there was more pain than I thought there was going to be having a second-degree tear and lots of lovely hemorrhoids, so sitting was not something fun. Meagan: Mhmm, yeah. Tara: Yeah. Jackie: So a little shocked by that, but compared to a C-section, it's so much better. I was thinking about how our bedrooms are on the second floor. The barn rec room that we're in is on the second floor, where we hang out right now doesn't have a bathroom, so I have to go up and down stairs. How was I going to do that after having a C-section? Meagan: Mhmm. Tara: Yeah. Still try not to do it too much after this birth. Meagan: Still take it easy. Still take it easy. Sometimes, we just want to get back into it. We just want to get back into it and we have to remember that we still just did a very big thing. We pushed a baby out of us and we still have to recover and give our body time. Tara: Yeah, and that's a big mistake. I definitely made it too, but when you feel so much better than the other time, you think, “Oh, I'm good to go. I can climb stairs. I can make my family dinner. I can do things that I did before I had the baby,” and it catches up with you and your healing takes a lot longer. Meagan: Yeah, don't rush it. Awesome. Tara: Give yourself some grace. Meagan: Yes, give yourself some grace. I always tell people that when you are feeling really good, that means that you need more time. Tara: That's a good one. Meagan: Just keep giving yourself time. It's okay to take it. I love it. What an amazing story though. One you will never forget. Thank you again, so much for sharing it with us. Seriously. Tara: It's an exciting one. Jackie: Thank you. One of the things my husband said to me after I had the VBAC, he goes, “Hey, now you can be on that podcast you listen to all of the time.” Meagan: Oh! Jackie: He's like, “You can call them up.” Meagan: Did you tell him when you got the email? Jackie: I haven't yet because I was like, “What happens if something goes wrong and we don't actually get to record and it gets canceled or whatever?” But I'll tell him when he gets home. My four-year-old actually woke up throwing up this morning and I was like, “Oh, I'm not going to be able to do this because she's going to be throwing up all day,” but she's held it down for the whole hour. Tara: You've got a lot going on. Meagan: Yes, you do. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you for taking all of the time today to share this beautiful story, and congratulations once again. Jackie: Thank you so much for inviting me on. Tara: Congratulations, Jackie. Enjoy those baby cuddles. Meagan: I know, those little coos are so sweet. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

How can you take your power back after it feels like a previous birth experience took it away? Today's story with Karine Halle features details of trauma from a hospital birth for her first child and how she was determined to have a home birth for her second.  In between her first and second birth, she felt called into doula work and became passionate about supporting families in the birth experience.  For her second pregnancy and birth, she did everything she could to put the odds on her side to have her dream birth. *Please note that this conversation contains mention of suicidal thoughts Things we talk about in this episode: Postpartum rage GBS positive Gestational Diabetes testing Body work for birth: chiropractic care, massage, yoga, exercise Links From The Episode: The Birth Hour: https://thebirthhour.com/ Birthful: https://birthful.com/ Evidence Based Birth Podcast: https://evidencebasedbirth.com/evidence-based-birth-podcast/ Babies are Not Pizzas: https://amzn.to/3UGYtPi Ina May: https://amzn.to/3tfHuI2 Hypnobirthing: https://hypnobirthing.com/ The First Forty Days: https://amzn.to/3WMDtbK Birthing from Within: https://amzn.to/3tfHOqe The Fourth Trimester: https://amzn.to/3NOSUvE Business of Being Born: https://www.thebusinessof.life/   Offers From Our Awesome Partners: Esembly: https://bit.ly/3eanCSz - use code DIH20 to get 20% off your order Needed: https://bit.ly/2DuMBxP - use code DIAH to get 20% off your order or DIAH100 for $100 off a Complete Plan   More From Doing It At Home: Doing It At Home book on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3vJcPmU DIAH Website: https://www.diahpodcast.com/ DIAH Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doingitathome/ DIAH YouTube: https://bit.ly/3pzuzQC DIAH Merch: https://bit.ly/3qhwgAe  Give Back to DIAH: https://bit.ly/3qgm4r9

Links: Get your breast pump for free at aeroflowbreastpumps.com/birthhour and use promo code TBH15 at for 15% off supplies and accessories. Know Your Options Online Childbirth Course Beyond the First Latch Course (comes free with KYO course) Support The Birth Hour via Patreon!

Links This episode is sponsored by Kindred Bravely. Use code BIRTHHOUR for 20% off at kindredbravely.com Know Your Options Online Childbirth Course - Use Code 100OFF for $100 off Beyond the First Latch Course Support The Birth Hour via Patreon!

This postpartum series is in partnership with Ergobaby. Check out their baby carriers at ergobaby.com. Know Your Options Online Childbirth Course Use code 100OFF for $100 off enrollment at thebirthhour.com/course Beyond the First Latch Course (comes free with KYO course) Support The Birth Hour via Patreon! at patreon.com/birthhour