Podcasts about hypnobabies

Julia became pregnant in December of 2019, right before the world shut down. She spent that pregnancy isolated, alone, and made to go to her prenatal appointments without her partner. Beginning at just 36 weeks, she was pressured to have a c-section, because her baby was breech. Deep down, Julia knew her baby was healthy, still growing, and perhaps still had time to turn. But after several weeks of unrelenting pressure from her doctor, she gave in and scheduled the cesarean. After this experience, Julia immediately knew she wanted a natural, unmedicated VBAC. And after lots of research and listening to birth podcasts, she decided that home was the safest place for her to achieve it. When she met her team of midwives, and delved into the world of Hypnobabies, Julia discovered how beautiful and peaceful birth can be at home, rather than the medical emergency it often is in a hospital. Her second baby was born at home, in the water, at just shy of 43 weeks. Mentioned in this episode: The Business of Being Born  Hypnobirthing: The Mongan Method by Marie Morgan Birth photos by @skylightphototx If you love the show, I would greatly appreciate a review on  Spotify or Apple Podcasts!  Follow me on Instagram @healingbirth Do you have a birth story you'd like to share on the podcast, or would like to otherwise connect? I love to hear from you! Send me a note at contactus@healingbirth.net Check out the website for lots of other birth related offerings, and personalized support: www.healingbirth.net Intro / Outro music: Dreams by Markvard

Molly planned to give birth to her first baby at a birth center, but when she hit 41 weeks, she was bait and switched into a hospital induction. The Pitocin-induced birth was traumatic and excruciating, and ended with a week long NICU stay for her son. In retrospect, Molly believes the induction, and the trauma to her and her son, was completely unnecessary.  It wasn't until she began therapy at one year postpartum to address the scars of this first birth experience that she began to heal, and consider that she could give birth again without interventions and trauma. Discovering Hypnobabies, was also a complete game changer for her the second time around. The affirmations and hypnosis techniques helped her to address her fears and feel confident. She describes that birth experience, using Hynobabies, as pain free! At the time of this recording, Molly is pregnant and planning a home birth with her third. If you love the show, I would greatly appreciate a review on  Spotify or Apple Podcasts!  Follow me on Instagram @healingbirth Do you have a birth story you'd like to share on the podcast, or would like to otherwise connect? I love to hear from you! Send me a note at contactus@healingbirth.net Check out the website for lots of other birth related offerings, and personalized support: www.healingbirth.net Intro / outro music: Dreams by Markvard

My guest today is Trisha Fuller. Trisha Fuller is a Master Hypnotist/ NLP Practitioner, Trainer and International Speaker. Owner of Sherwood Park Hypnosis Center and The Canadian Hypnosis Academy. Trisha is passionate about helping others achieve their goals and design their successful future with hypnosis and NLP skills with private online sessions, corporate trainings, seminars and courses. Her inspiration and motivation stems from her own personal triumphs with hypnosis, Quitting Smoking and Hypnotic Childbirth. These successes inevitably changed the course of her life. Once a Laboratory and X-ray Technician, now a successful business owner with multiple clinic locations and a vocational school. Her teaching background is enhanced from years of teaching First Aid and CPR with the Canadian Red Cross and the Heart and Stroke Foundation, as well as Hypnosis for Childbirth with Hypnobabies. As a wife and mother of 3, living in a remote rural location she has had to learn to become curious and discover alternatives to building her business, balancing career and family, while commuting. This has broadened her perception of opportunities that people truly have. Helping clients, students and entrepreneurs, find their unique solutions, using hypnosis and NLP is her main focus. In this episode we discuss hypnotherapy, NLP, forgiveness, transformation and asking for help.Website - https://learnhypnosis.ca/IG - https://www.instagram.com/learnhypnosis.ca/FB - https://www.facebook.com/trisha.fuller.5/LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/canadianhypnosisacademy/YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@LearnHypnosis.caTrishaFullerX (Twitter) - https://x.com/hypnosisablearnIn this episode you will learn:1. What some common misconceptions about Hypnosis and NLP.2. The difference between a Hypnotherapist and a Master Hypnotherapist.3. Some of the most common reasons that people use Hypnotherapy. "Let's just start at the beginning. There is definitely basic hypnosis. Like you just learn the actual skills and then there's like clinical, there's advanced hypnosis, NLP practitioner, NLP master pack, all of these things." - 00:05:03"I'm a guide with a very specific tool set. And I think this is a future question for you. I don't do other modalities. I do hypnosis and NLP."- 00:25:49"You are the exact person you were meant to be. And everything that you have gone through was meant to happen and there's no shame and guilt in that." - 00:53:24Are you an author speaker coach or entrepreneur building a brand in today's very crowded marketplace? How do you stand out? Join me on Sept 27th and learn how to empower your message and shine as a guest on podcasts for just $97. Imagine stepping into that interview with clarity and conviction, connecting deeply with listeners who are eager to hear what you have to say. Imagine the satisfaction of knowing you've nailed it, leaving your audience inspired and wanting more. This would position you as an authority to thousands of people in your industry. Let's turn those nerves into excitement and make sure you shine on your podcast appearance. Together, we'll boost your confidence, polish your messaging for impact, and get you ready to deliver an interview that makes people fall in love with your from the first words. Ready to shine on podcasts? Let's do this! Click the link below to register.https://empowerographypodcast.com/empower-your-messageContact Brad:WebsiteInstagramLinkedInYouTubeX (Twitter)TikTok#empowerographypodcast #women #womensempowerment #empowherment #entrepreneurship #womeninentrepreneurship #empoweredwomen #empowerelevateeducate #findingyourpurpose #podcast #womensupportingwomen #soulalignment #heartcentered #selflove #resilience #personalgrowth #mindset #spirituality #healing #heartspace #forgiveness #hypnotherapy #masterhypnotherapist #NLP #alignment #transformation #intuition #askingforhelp #innergrowth #innerjourney #receiving

Thinking about birth when you are currently pregnant can bring up a lot of emotions. The main ones are excitement and impatience to meet your new baby, as well as anxiety and fear about the unknown of childbirth. With more people (in the United States) choosing to give birth in a hospital, families wonder what they can do to have a great hospital birth. There are a lot of things you can do during pregnancy to prepare for a positive experience, and we are chatting all about it with our guest Adriana Lozada. Who is Adriana Lozada? Adriana Lozada is a certified advanced birth doula, childbirth & postpartum educator, engaging international speaker, bestselling author, and host of the acclaimed Birthful podcast. Venezuelan-born, Adriana's background is a multi-layered and multi-cultural bundle of experiences from her time living around various continents and the Caribbean. A former co-founder and CCO of Spanish language youth media companies, the birth of her daughter sparked her passion for perinatal work. As a speaker and birth advocate, Adriana is passionate about helping people understand and support the physiological processes happening in their bodies, so they can confidently show up for their births. What Did We Discuss? In this episode, we chat with Adriana about how to prepare for a great hospital birth. We discuss everything from supporting your physiology to how to better plan for a wonderful labor and birth. Here are several of the questions that we covered in our conversation: Could you explain to us in your own words what a doula does and how they support expecting parents during childbirth? What are the main benefits of having a doula present during labor and delivery, particularly in a hospital setting? How can expecting parents best prepare themselves physically and mentally for a hospital birth? Can you talk about physiology and the role it plays in birth?  How do you believe partners can best support the birthing person during labor, especially in a hospital environment? What resources do you recommend for parents exploring their birthing options?  What advice would you give to expecting parents who want to ensure they have a positive and empowering hospital birth experience? Adriana has been in the perinatal and birthing space for almost 20 years. We are so grateful she joined us today and shared her wealth of knowledge with us on this episode. If you are currently expecting, be sure to tune in! Adriana's Resources Website: birthful.com Instagram: @birthfulpodcast Facebook: @birthful Podcast: Birthful Podcast Mentioned in the Episode: Preparing your body: Spinning Babies, Body Ready Method Preparing your mind: Hypnobabies, Hypnobirthing, meditation What is Orgasmic Birth? The Best-Kept Birth Secret – Podcast Ep 121 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, we're joined by EBB Childbirth Class graduates Dr. Emily Guilfoy and her husband, Doug, as they share their unmedicated birth story. Dr. Emily, a chiropractor, walks us through her preparation for birth using self-hypnosis and the mental and physical strategies she employed for a calm, empowering labor. Together, they discuss their experience in the EBB Childbirth Class, working with their doula, and how they created a serene birthing environment in a hospital setting. Dr. Guilfoy also tells us how her personal history of having a hip replacement surgery impacted her pregnancy and birth options. From managing labor to navigating hospital policies, tune in to hear about how they achieved the birth experience they envisioned. Resources: Learn more about Hypnobabies here. EBB 322 – Harnessing the Power of the Mind to Enhance Joy and Comfort in Childbirth with Kerry Tuschhoff, Founder of Hypnobabies   For more information about Evidence Based Birth and a crash course on evidence based care, visit www.ebbirth.com. Follow us on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok! Ready to learn more? Grab an EBB Podcast Listening Guide or read Dr. Dekker's book, "Babies Are Not Pizzas: They're Born, Not Delivered!" If you want to get involved at EBB, join our Professional membership (scholarship options available) and get on the wait list for our EBB Instructor program. Find an EBB Instructor here, and click here to learn more about the EBB Childbirth Class.

This is it, folks! The episode you've all been waiting for….our birth story! Matthew and I sit down (in bed, as always) with our first guest - less than a week old baby Maya. She lies quietly (for the most part, you might hear some coos and little grunts in the background at times) on Matthew's chest while we recount the story of our home birth, while it's still fresh in our minds. We take you from the beginning of the birthing waves (contractions) when they started late Saturday night, all the way to delivery. It just so happens that the night it all started was a special date night, and one that we're sure to remember forever. I purchased tickets to the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra performing music by the famous composer John Williams earlier in the year as a Father's Day present for Matthew. Its date being a precarious one (close to our due date), we weren't sure if we'd end up going. Turns out that Maya must've known, and was waiting for us to have this special time together before her arrival. It would be a couple of hours and attempts to sleep the discomfort off that I would realize I was in active labor. I spent this time in our bathtub, listening to Hypnobabies while Matthew sat with me, made me a PB&J and kept me hydrated. Over the next few hours our birth team, which included a midwife and 2 apprentices, as well as 5 close family members, arrived and assumed their roles of supporting myself and Matthew. I labored for the majority of the time in the giant kiddie blow up pool and eventually delivered on what the midwives refer to as the “birthing stool.” I won't give all the fun details away. You'll hear all of that in the episode. But let's just say it was intense, intimate, spiritual and magical. The whole event was 12 hours total, exactly the amount of time I envisioned when I mentally planned the birth experience. There were a lot of tears, a fair amount of blood, some laughs and so much love. So join us from our bedroom - where we made our baby, birthed her and are now hanging out with her and talking about the whole darn thing. Offers From Our Awesome Partners: Needed: https://needed.sjv.io/XY3903 - use code DIAH to get 20% off your order The FamilyAlbum app: Share your family's precious moments with your loved ones + get 11 free photo prints delivered each month CLICK HERE. More From Doing It At Home: Doing It At Home book on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3vJcPmU DIAH Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doingitathome/ DIAH YouTube: https://bit.ly/3pzuzQC DIAH Merch: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/doingitathome Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From the very beginning of her first pregnancy, Aeriel encountered discouragement and doubt from medical providers about her ability to birth naturally. Unbelievably, she was even repeatedly encouraged to end her (unplanned, but wanted) pregnancy multiple times by the first doctor she saw. Reasonably shook by this, she sought other care and found a birth center mid-pregnancy. Due to going to 42 weeks, she was transferred back to the same hospital that was affiliated with her first doctor to be induced. Aerial was absolutely set on having a natural birth, and despite being induced with Pitocin, and discouragement from the medical staff, she achieved it. Find Aeriel's blog at www.mamaunrehearsed.com Aeriel's on Instagram and Facebook @mamaunrehearsed If you love the show, I would greatly appreciate a review on  Spotify or Apple Podcasts!  Follow me on Instagram @healingbirth Do you have a birth story you'd like to share on the podcast, or would like to otherwise connect? I love to hear from you! Send me a note at contactus@healingbirth.net Check out the website for lots of other birth related offerings, and personalized support: www.healingbirth.net Intro / outro music: Dreams by Markvard

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Kerry Tuschhoff, founder and director of Hypnobabies®, brings a wealth of experience as a childbirth educator, doula, speaker, and hypnotherapist to the realm of hypnobirthing. Inspired by her own challenging birth experiences and a TV show about hypnosis for childbirth, she meticulously studied hypnotherapy and pain management to develop Hypnobabies®, which integrates hypno-anesthesia techniques for effective pain relief during labor. Her program not only empowers expectant parents to make informed decisions regarding interventions such as epidurals and episiotomies but also emphasizes the role of birth partners in maintaining a calm and supportive environment. Kerry champions the idea that consistent practice of hypnosis techniques, paired with a positive mindset and self-advocacy, can significantly enhance the birthing experience, making it more comfortable and holistic.   Resources: To learn more about Hypnobabies and the techniques mentioned in the episode, visit the Hypnobabies website here. Follow Hypnobabies on Facebook, YouTube, TikTok and Instagram. For more information about Evidence Based Birth® and a crash course on evidence based care, visit www.ebbirth.com. Follow us on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok! Ready to learn more? Grab an EBB Podcast Listening Guide or read Dr. Dekker's book, "Babies Are Not Pizzas: They're Born, Not Delivered!" If you want to get involved at EBB, join our Professional membership (scholarship options available) and get on the wait list for our EBB Instructor program. Find an EBB Instructor here, and click here to learn more about the EBB Childbirth Class.

Hannah is a VBAC mom and doula with Ebb and Flow Birth Co. located in Indiana. Hannah's first labor began very intensely. Her platelet levels were high enough for her to be able to get an epidural which she requested right away. She dilated to complete quickly, but after about 4 hours of pushing, baby just kept coming down and going back up with no progress. Hannah was exhausted and consented to a Cesarean. Unfortunately, her very effective epidural was not as effective during her surgery. It was painful. She required higher doses of medicine, hemorrhaged, and was so out of it that she remembers very little about her baby's actual birth.After the birth of her son, Hannah researched birth options and did all she could do ensure she'd never have another Cesarean. Her VBAC pregnancy included thrombocytopenia again, partial placenta previa (which completely resolved!), marginal cord insertion, and she was GBS+. With a great team and supportive provider, Hannah was able to stay focused on her VBAC goal even with the curveballs thrown at her. She went into labor spontaneously, progressed quickly, and though her pushing stage mimicked the same patterns, with the help of her doula's tips and freedom to move without an epidural, baby was able to descend and come right out!Hannah's Doula WebsiteWhat is Thrombocytopenia? ACH PublicationsPlatelet Transfusions ArticleNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Welcome, welcome. I hope you guys are having an incredible day. We have a guest today who has a VBAC story with a whole bunch of different things added to her journey. She has thrombocytopenia. Thrombocytopenia, I always say that wrong, which means low platelet count. That is definitely something that is more unique. It's a little bit more rare, but if you've ever been told that you have low platelet counts or thrombocytopenia, this is definitely going to be an episode for you to listen to. She also had partial placenta previa and even marginal cord insertion. I am so excited for her to be sharing her story today. We do have a Review of the Week so I'm going to dive right into that and then we are going to get into her beautiful story. This review was just left on Apple Podcasts recently and it said, “I recently discovered this amazing VBAC podcast and I'm absolutely hooked. The host is incredibly knowledgeable and passionate about all things related to pregnancy, childbirth, and postpartum care. Each episode is packed with insightful information, personal stories, and practical tips for expectant mothers and families. I love how they bring on guests and experts to cover a wide range of topics making each episode engaging and informative. Whether you're a first-time mom or a seasoned parent, this podcast is a valuable resource and empowers and educates. I highly recommend tuning in and soaking up all the wisdom shared on The VBAC Link Podcast.” I love this review and as always, I love them all. I love every single review, you guys. It is so amazing to get a notification in our inbox that a review has been left, so if you haven't had a chance yet, please do so. Please leave us a review. Tell us what you think about The VBAC Link Podcast. You can do it on Apple Podcasts. You can rate us on Spotify or really wherever you listen to your podcasts. Or even Google– you can Google “The VBAC Link” and leave us a review there. As I always say, these reviews truly warm my heart but they actually really help your community and these other Women of Strength find this podcast and these stories. I encourage you to leave a review and tell us what you think so someone else can find this episode as well. Meagan: Well, welcome Hannah. Thank you so much for joining us. Seriously, you guys, I can't tell you guys enough. Every time I have someone recording, I'm like, “Thank you for being here with me” because it takes a village and without all of your guys' stories, this podcast wouldn't be a thing. So thank you for being here, Hannah, and yeah. Feel free to share your stories. Tell the world what you feel like they need to know. Hannah: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity to share my story because both stories, I could talk about all day but also, I listened to your podcast consistently, constantly throughout the postpartum after I had my C-section and also during my VBAC pregnancy. With our first, I didn't really have a different plan other than what my friends and family had done. I had planned to go to the highly recommended hospital in my area with a random OB that I just chose. The only real decision I knew I wanted specifically was that I knew I wanted to go unmedicated for my birth but I didn't do anything other than general childbirth classes to actually prepare to birth unmedicated. I just assumed, “I'm going to go in and have a baby unmedicated and everything will be fine.” I didn't do anything to prepare for that and my pregnancy was pretty uneventful. I was sick the entire time. I had borderline hyperemesis– not officially diagnosed, but I was very, very sick. The only other weird thing I guess that I wasn't aware of before pregnancy was I had gestational thrombocytopenia where your blood platelet count gets lower. Meagan: Yes. We just heard about this on a recent story and I had never even heard of that before. Hannah: Yeah, I've had it with both of my pregnancies so I think my body just does that when I'm pregnant. The only thing that they had mentioned about that was there was a potential that you won't be able to get an epidural if your platelets fall too low. I had wanted to go without an epidural anyway so I wasn't really concerned about that, but again, I didn't do much to prepare. At the end of my third trimester, around that 36-week mark, they had brought up, “Well, your baby is measuring potentially big.” They estimated him weighing 11 pounds. They were like, “If you want to schedule an induction at 39 weeks, you can. If not, that's fine. It's up to you.” My OB was really great about just presenting options and not forcing things to happen. She did say, “You can schedule one of you want to but you don't have to.” I did schedule an induction for 39+5 or something like that. At 38 weeks and 39 weeks, I decided to get membrane sweeps. I got one at 38 weeks exactly and 39 weeks exactly. The day after I got my membrane sweep at 39 weeks, at 39+1, I went into labor. This was before my induction. I didn't have to end up being induced, but my contractions that morning had started so fast and so hard that I was really thrown off. I was shocked because when I had talked to people, they said, “They'll gradually build and they'll gradually get closer together and stronger in intensity over a few days or whatever it may be.”Mine started. It just hit me like a train. It was really bad so I called my husband. He was already at work that morning and I said, “We need to go to the hospital now. I need to get an epidural right away.” Because they were so intense, I just thought, I'm really far into labor, clearly. We got to the hospital and we got into triage. They checked me and they were like, “Well, you're about 3 centimeters.” I was just so annoyed. I was like, Okay. I'm only 3 centimeters. Whatever. We can stay because I'm obviously not coping well. I got an epidural right away as soon as we got back to be admitted. Thankfully my platelets were within range to get the epidural. Meagan: That's awesome. Did you get platelet transfusions at all during pregnancy? Hannah: Nope. They just monitored them. They continued to decrease, but they didn't drop below that epidural safety level but they were continually decreasing throughout my whole pregnancy. Meagan: Got it. I was curious. I'm always wondering what people with low platelets do if they do transfusions or not. Do you remember what the low number was, like the safety number?Hannah: Yeah, it kind of depends on the anesthesiologist, but for epidural specifically, they said anything below 100. I don't remember the units. It's like 100 something per milliliter or something like that. Anything below 100 would be considered not okay to have an epidural. Anything below 70 or 80 would risk people out of home birth which is another thing to consider. But yeah. Mine didn't drop below that level. It was 105 when I checked into the hospital. Meagan: Awesome. What's crazy is that less than 1% of people even have this condition. Hannah: Yeah, it's very rare. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. Well, good. So you're 105. You're getting good. You're clear to get an epidural. Hannah: Yep. I get my epidural right away when we get back there and essentially, I just nap. My husband was really confused. He was like, “Well, I thought I was going to be doing more. I'm just sitting here,” because I just napped with a peanut ball between my legs. I progressed very, very quickly especially for a first-time mom and around 9 centimeters, I had been stuck at 9 centimeters basically not really long, but longer than I was for how fast I was progressing. When my OB came in, she said, “If you want, we can break your water just to get you to that complete state so we can start pushing.” I was like, “Yeah, fine.” I didn't really know a difference so she broke my water and then I got to 10 really, really quickly but I labored down for quite a while just because my OB was back and forth between seeing patients in clinic and then coming to see me because she comes to your birth whether she's on call or not which is nice. I labored down for a while and then started doing practice pushes or whatever with the nurse. My epidural was so strong. I felt absolutely nothing. I didn't feel a sensation to push, an urge to push. I didn't feel pressure– absolutely nothing. Me trying to push was not effective whatsoever. I pushed for about 4 hours before we ended up opting for a C-section because my son was just coming down and then going back up, coming down and going back up and of course, I was in that semi-reclined, pretty much on my back position so gravity wasn't really helping me at all. He just was not coming out. The nurse and my doctor had mentioned, “We think he's asynclitic,” where his head was tilted to the side and he just wasn't coming out. I was just exhausted and annoyed so we opted to have the C-section. That was really shocking to me. I was a little thrown off because C-section was never on my radar. It's not something I really prepared for or thought about. I just thought, C-sections happen in emergencies. I was fine. My baby was fine. We were both stable and had no problems. It was just that I had been pushing for a long time so I felt really confused on why it was happening. But the hard part for me was once the C-section started is when things really took a bad turn for me emotionally and physically. My epidural like I mentioned was super, super strong, but when the C-section started, I could feel a lot. I felt a lot of pain, not just the pressure they had mentioned. I was really, really in pain. I had told my husband, “There's something wrong. I can feel way more than I believe I should be feeling.” He told the anesthesiologist and they gave me some additional medication. I don't know exactly what it was, but whatever they gave me, I fell asleep for a little bit. I wasn't under general but I dozed off. Meagan: Yeah, it made you sleepy. Hannah: Yeah. I don't remember when my son was born or meeting him or hearing him cry because I was just so out of it. When I woke up however long that was, time was just not in my mind at that moment, but I remember my husband saying, “Babe, it's a boy,” because we didn't know if we were having a boy or a girl. That's all I really remember from the OR itself. Then in recovery, in the recovery room, my blood pressure dropped. I was going hypotensive. I apparently had hemorrhaged more than they would have liked for a C-section which is understandable with low platelet counts so they were trying to get me stable because I was essentially on the verge of passing out. Everything was blurry and my main concern while all of this was happening was having my son breastfeed. I told my husband, “They're going to work on me. Just get him to nurse,” so he was holding my son to my chest so he could nurse while they were trying to stabilize me. It took them quite a while to get my blood pressure back up and to get everything fine, but thankfully, I didn't need any transfusions or anything like that. The whole postpartum experience, everything from C-section on was just really difficult to deal with and process at that point but that's kind of how everything ended up with that one. Then I knew from then on if I had any other kids, this can't happen again. I have to do something different. Meagan: Did they talk to you about anything like, “Okay, for your next birth, if you choose to have one, you can have a VBAC”? Did they counsel you at all after that? I'm always curious if providers do. Hannah: Yeah, so my OB specifically– I told her, I was like, “If I have more kids–”, because I had never heard the term VBAC. I didn't know that was a thing. I just thought, Oh, you can have a C-section but you can go on to have kids vaginally later. I didn't realize it was such a big deal until I started looking into it and asking around about it. At my postpartum appointment, I talked to my OB about it and she was like, “Well, yeah. That's fine. There are no issues with that. You would be a great candidate for it.” It was like, okay. That's what's going to happen if I have more kids. From postpartum on, I started researching. Meagan: Awesome. So what did you find in your research? Hannah: The first thing I did was look up obviously what VBAC was. I didn't really know then I started listening to podcasts and reading and reading book and listening to stories. I came across your guys' podcast which I honestly don't know how I found it. It was 5 weeks postpartum and I had never really listened to podcasts before. I found it and I found several others and started listening. Then one of the big things I looked at was, okay. What happened in my birth that potentially contributed to this? How can I avoid this in the future or make it a better experience? One of the big things was that I got my hospital notes and my op report and everything from when we were in the hospital just to understand fully what happened because they don't explain every single detail of what's happening to you unfortunately in most circumstances. So I wanted to see all of the notes and everything that happened down to the minute that was in my chart which really helped me understand what happened, process it, and heal that. Then for me, when I was looking at why I had my C-section and all of that, when I was looking at things about VBAC, it was like if these things happen to you like a failure to progress or the baby wouldn't come out like CPD, the cephalic pelvis disproportion, then the chance of you having a VBAC are not great. I was like, Well, that's discouraging. Then the more I got to the research, the more I realized that my birth specifically was likely a cascade of interventions starting with my epidural for me. That's how I personally feel. Some people would say that's not the case but that's how I personally feel. I knew going into my next pregnancy that I would do things drastically differently to set myself up for the best possible chances of having that VBAC. Meagan: Yeah. I love that. It sounds like you were starting in all of the right places. Hannah: Yep. Meagan: So baby number two– Hannah: Yeah. We decided. 8 months postpartum, I was like, “Let's have another baby.” I feel like with both my pregnancies and both my postpartum, around that time, I just get baby fever and then I am thankful that I don't get pregnant at that time. We got pregnant with my daughter about 20ish months after I had my son. That wasn't specifically chosen for VBAC intervals or anything like that. We just weren't ready to have another kid yet. So I got pregnant with her and I had interviewed doulas before we even conceived because in my area, they book up really, really fast, especially the more experienced ones. I specifically looked for a doula who had a lot of experience supporting VBAC. Then I also looked into different birth location options. I had first looked into a birth center and out-of-hospital birth center, but where I am in Indiana, it's illegal and against the law to have a VBAC in a free-standing birth center. I was upset about that at first, but then I looked into some home birth midwives as well as hospital providers. Home birth midwives– the only one I could find in my general close area was about two hours away and the ones who were closer to me wouldn't support a primary VBAC so if you had never had a vaginal birth either before your C-section or had a VBAC before, they wouldn't support you which was really discouraging. With how fast my labor progressed the first time around, I just didn't want to travel that far for appointments or having my midwife have to travel that far for the birth because you just never know how fast it's going to be. The thing about my first birth, my OB was amazing. She was not the type of OB who would try to coerce you to do anything. She was always very supportive of whatever I decided to do. She was very supportive of VBAC but I did also interview some hospital providers, some midwives, some other OBs and ultimately, I decided to stay with my OB because I felt really comfortable with her. I felt confident in her. She had no stipulations surrounding VBAC at all. The only other OB I did interview was an OB who would do vaginal breech birth because that's one thing my OB would not do and I was like, If I have a breech baby, I'm not having a C-section so I'll go to this other OB if that ends up being the case. Meagan: Okay, you're in Indiana.Hannah: The Indianapolis area. Meagan: Did you find it hard to find that provider? Hannah: Yes and no. Yes because he's the only one in our area who supports vaginal breech and no because my doula and a network of doulas who I converse with now all recommended him because they know that he's the only one in the area who would do it. Meagan: Do you care to share his name just in case we have someone breech listening? Hannah: Yes, so his name is Dr. James Webb and he's on the verge of retiring. Meagan: No! That's the problem. Hannah: Yeah. He is very particular about what hospitals he'll deliver at and all of that, but he is the only one currently in our area who will do it so if he doesn't happen to be retired at the time of this episode coming out, you can look into him as an option. Meagan: Yeah, awesome. That is the hardest part is we are seeing so many people who do supportive breech VBAC or just breech in general are retiring. They are closing doors and that's the hardest part. Okay, sorry. So you did an interview with him. Hannah: Yes. I had him as a backup just in case baby did end up being breech. Then my pregnancy again in general was fine. I had gestational thrombocytopenia again. I was not as sick the second time around which I was very, very thankful for. The only other weird things that came up were I was GBS+. I was negative for my first pregnancy and then I had a partial placenta previa at one point which at first concerned me but then once I realized that they usually resolve as your uterus grows, then I wasn't too concerned about ending up with another C-section because of that. I also, my baby was breech at one point. Meagan: Oh my goodness. Hannah: I know. I was like, All of the things that could happen did happen. But I didn't let it discourage me. I just kept going on and doing what I needed to do. The big difference in my preparation that I did the second time around because I knew for my VBAC I wanted to be as low intervention as possible. I knew I wanted to go unmedicated. I had my doula so I took a program called HypnoBabies which is a type of hypnobirth for those who may not know. It's a medical-grade hypnosis so I consistently practiced with that throughout my whole pregnancy. I did some breathwork and progressive relaxation videos and stuff like that to make sure I was really mentally prepared to go unmedicated because I feel like that aspect of birth is so much more mental than it is physical. That's where I really wanted to be prepared for that part. Meagan: Mhmm, nice job. Hypnobirthing is really common here in Utah. I wouldn't even say common but a favorite education course and we actually have a blog about it because so many people love it. It really can put you in such a great head space. Hannah: Yeah. I know it doesn't work for everyone, but what was more beneficial for me was that I didn't just go through the course in the last 6 weeks of pregnancy or something like that. I consistently practiced throughout my entire pregnancy to make sure it became a habit or something that I was normally used to doing. I did that primarily to prepare for birthing unmedicated and then I also did pelvic floor therapy to help with my C-section scar and my ability to push because pushing was such a difficult time for me the first time around. I really wanted to know what muscles to use and how to actively engage and push if I needed to. Meagan: Awesome. Hannah: I did a lot of different things to prepare the second time around. But then at the end of pregnancy, I did not get any cervical checks. I didn't get any sweeps because I knew it would just mess with my head space. It would discourage me if I was dilated or wasn't dilated and I knew that my dilation wouldn't determine when I was going into labor. I didn't schedule an induction either. I was just going to wait for my baby to come when they wanted to come and my OB was fine with that which was great. The only thing I did do was– I didn't have to end up doing this, but if I went past 41 weeks, I was going to get non-stress tests. But we were find waiting for things to happen. I went into labor spontaneously at 40+2 and– oh, I forgot to mention. Sorry, I'll back up. I did have a marginal cord insertion with this baby too so all of the things where the cord was on the side of the placenta instead of the center. The issue there could potentially be a lack of blood and nutrient flow to the baby which could cause growth issues. Meagan: IUGR, yeah. Hannah: We did monitor that a little bit more, but there were no issues with her growth or her percentile or anything like that so that was never a concern of her being too small or too big or anything like that. But I went into labor the morning of 40+2 and it didn't start how I expected or anything like my first labor. I had excessive bleeding and no contractions. I was really confused. I was like, Why am I bleeding so much? It was more blood than I felt comfortable with. A lot of times you have a bloody show or something like that with your mucus plug, but this was filling pads. I called my doula. I called my doctor and they were both like, “Yes, just go in.” My plan was to labor at home as long as possible, but because it started that way, I was like, Okay, I'm going to the hospital. Meagan: Mhmm, and the previa had completely resolved? Hannah: Yes. Yes. It was still low-lying, but it wasn't covering the cervix at all. With the amount of blood, I was like, Well, this is a little concerning. I did go into the hospital right away and went to triage because their main concern was a placental abruption with how much I was bleeding. Meagan: That's one of the things I was thinking too. Could it be a placenta thing? Hannah: They put the monitors on us. They checked everything and we were both fine. There were no issues. The bleeding ended up resolving and they couldn't exactly tell where it was coming from. At the time, I was about 4 centimeters dilated when we got to triage and I had planned because we were both fine, I was like, Well, I'm going to go back home then, but we had to stay to be monitored for about an hour just to make sure nothing else came up or things didn't take a turn or something like that. Within that hour, I had already began to dilate more. I was already 5 centimeters and at that time, I started feeling contractions so I decided, Okay, we'll just stay. We're already here. With the bleeding, I felt a little bit more concerned so we just stayed. I told my doula I would just text her and keep her updated. We got back to be admitted and because I was GBS+, I did choose to get the antibiotics. I got that round of antibiotics and then had them unhook the IV because I wanted to be as mobile and as free as possible. Thankfully, my hospital had wireless monitors so I was able to move around. I didn't have to tote around a monitor or be stuck to the bed or anything like that. After the antibiotics went through, I was going to lay down and listen to my Hypnobabies tracks and just rest because my contractions weren't intense or anything like that. I was super, super uncomfortable laying down. I needed to be up and moving. I tried and I was just annoyed with my headphones and annoyed with the tracks and everything. I was like, I need to be up and moving. At that point, I was getting ready to get up and my water broke on its own which was different for me because it did not break on its own with my previous birth. My water broke and again, I was around 5 or 6 centimeters at this time. It was definitely my water and they made sure. It was gushing out so it was definitely my water. After that point, I just felt like I needed to be on the toilet. I went to the bathroom and sat on the toilet and my husband got me cool washcloths and was wrapping my shoulders. I was just swaying back and forth on the toilet. Quickly, within 30 minutes, I was getting hot and sweaty. I was shaking. I was doing the horse-lip breathing and my doula wasn't there yet. I had texted her right before I went to the bathroom to tell her, “Things are getting more intense. You should probably head this way.” I hadn't been there more than 2 hours so she was like, “Okay, yes. Okay, things are picking up. I'll be on my way.” When I was on the toilet and I was starting to sweat and shake, I was clearly in transition. I knew that in my mind. My nurse knew that. My husband realized that. At that time, I was like, “I need an epidural.” I told my husband that and he was like, “But you're doing so well. Let's wait for Julie (my doula) to get there and see what she suggests.” I just felt like I couldn't do it. Then my nurse was really great about just leaving us alone and letting us do our thing. She came into the bathroom to check on us like I said about 30 minutes later. I told her, “I think I need an epidural.” At this time, I did not have an IV hooked up. She had mentioned, “Well, it's at least going to take 20 minutes to get the fluids in you to even be able to do an epidural.” She knew and she was clearly trying to stall me. Meagan: Yeah, I was going to say, I think that nurse knew something you didn't know. Hannah: Yes. Looking back in my mind, I knew but I was just in denial. I didn't really want the epidural but at that moment when you are in transition, you're just like, I can't do this. Two minutes later, my doula walks in and I told her the same thing, “I think I need the epidural.” She was like, “How long have you been on the toilet? Have you switched positions lately?” I said, “Well, now I've been here about 30-45 minutes.” She said, “Let's try getting in the shower and see if that just helps things ease up or change or whatever.” I was so reluctant to get off the toilet because I was so comfortable and in my zone but I did. I got in the shower and as soon as I stood up and got in the shower, I was bearing down and pushing. I was hanging onto my husband's neck and my doula was putting water on my back and the nurse heard me grunting and bearing down and she came in and was like, “Are you complete? We need to make sure you're complete just to make sure you're not pushing against a not complete cervix.” That was one of my concerns too. I was unmedicated so I felt the urge to push obviously, but I didn't want to be in that case where my cervix would swell or something like that. But I was complete and I had just a slight lip or whatever. My doula just suggested maybe we get on hands and knees to help relieve that lip or get in a different position to even everything out. I got on the bed and got on hands and knees. At this point, I'm just pushing. My body is pushing. I have no control over it. It's happening regardless of whether my cervix is complete or not. I was on hands and knees sitting on the back of the bed. My husband was cooling me down with washcloths and rubbing my back. My doula was doing the same and taking pictures and watching me push to see how baby's movement was. I pushed on hands and knees for about 10 minutes and again, my baby was coming down and coming back up and coming down and coming back up which was discouraging because that's what happened the last time. Then my doula said, “How about we try a squat to see if that helps with gravity working in getting your baby out?” I was so tired at this time. I was like, “There's no way I can hold myself up in a squat. This is not going to happen.” But we got the squat bar. I got in the squat. My doula and my husband were both supporting me. Within 5 minutes, probably two or three pushes, my baby was out. We didn't know again if it was a girl or a boy. She came out so fast and my doula was trying to get me to do the blow breathing to control and slow the pushing but I was not. I was like, “Get this baby out,” because I knew pushing was going to be the hard part for me to get past because it was four hours with my C-section baby. My doula knew that as well so she was trying to give me that extra support to make pushing a good experience. I let it fly and I was like, “Nope. This baby is coming out now. I don't care how fast she comes out. I don't care if I tear or whatever. I just need to get her out.” So she did. She came out and it was so funny because I had the squat bar and I was trying to pull her to my chest. My doula had even mentioned this in our prenatal prep. If you use the squat bar, the umbilical cord is still going to be attached so go under the bar and not over the bar. I tried to go over the bar of course. They were trying to get me all untangled and stuff but I was so happy she had come out that I didn't even look to see if she was a boy or a girl. I just forgot to check. She was a girl and we were so, so happy and so excited. I was just in disbelief that I had done it. It happened so fast that I didn't really have time to process what was happening. It was 4.5 hours total. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Hannah: Yeah. From the first contraction I felt– so not when the bleeding started, but from the first contractions I felt to when she was born was 4.5 hours. Meagan: Holy smokes. Hannah: Yeah, that's almost a precipitous birth and I don't know what just happened. It was just a rollercoaster and intense with no breaks whatsoever. But we were so excited. So excited. Meagan: I bet. Oh my gosh. When you said almost precipitous labor, to me, that is still very precipitous. 4 hours really from the start to the end, that is so fast. I have had a couple of clients like that. Sometimes I'm just like, “How does your cervix just do that?” Because from a mom who had a 42-hour long labor, it's like, what? We envy a lot of you precipitous birthers, however, I will point out that when precipitous birth happens, it's typically super intense. Hannah: Yes and you don't have a break. It's just constant intensity. Meagan: Yes. It's so hard because people have said, “Oh, I'd rather have a fast labor than a long labor.” It goes both ways. They want a fast labor, but I'm like, you have to know that it is very, very, very intense. It usually starts right out of the gate. When I say right out of the gate, I can picture a rodeo with a cowboy on a bull and the second the gate opens, the bull is just bucking, right? Hannah: Yes, because as soon as–Meagan: That is what reminds me of precipitous labor. Hannah: As soon as I felt contractions, I went from feeling nothing that morning to feeling like my whole body was contracting. It was just very intense so I don't know. I think both have their pros and cons, long labors and short labors. Meagan: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm glad. Precipitous labor for a first baby is common from what I have seen in the doula world of supporting hundreds of babies and lots of moms with precipitous labor. It is common to happen the next time. So even if you didn't have bleeding, you probably would have gone in sooner rather than later too. Hannah: Or I would have ended up with a car baby because if I hadn't been bleeding, I would not have gone to the hospital. I would have been fine. My plan was to labor at home as long as possible. Meagan: So you could have had a car baby or a front door baby. Hannah: Yeah, or just somewhere that is not in the hospital baby because it was too fast. Meagan: Yes. Oh my gosh. You are amazing and it is interesting. I'm so curious. Did the doctors say why they think that you developed low platelets? Do you have that normally? Hannah: No, I don't. Meagan: You said gestational so I'm like, She must be meaning just during pregnancy. Hannah: Yes. Some people have it in general without being pregnant. Other people develop it just when they are pregnant. They don't really know exactly why. I think there are things you can do to help that and help increase those platelet levels other than getting transfusions or whatever, but they didn't really know why. I mean, I'll be interested to see if I have a third to see if I have it again, but I think it's just what my body chooses to do. Meagan: Yeah. Interesting. Well, I'm so happy for you. Huge congratulations. Hannah: Thank you. Meagan: I don't know if you're going to have a third, but I assume you'll probably have a wild ride as well and you'll have to let us know how it goes if you decide in the future to have one. Hannah: Yeah. It will probably be the wildcard. Meagan: I know. You know, that does happen. I swear baby number three– in fact actually, it was my very first doula client that I attended. I was shadowing a birth doula because I was brand new and this mom had precipitous labors and baby number three took 15 hours. She was like, “No. No. No. Why is this happening? What is going on here? No.” The whole labor, she was like, “I don't like this. This keeps going.” So you never know. Baby number three also could be a labor wildcard. You never know. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story today. Hannah: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

As I'm currently watching the Olympics as I write this, I am in awe of all of these incredible athletes. Seeing the greatest in the world compete against one another in their sports is truly amazing. You know what's also amazing? Knowing that some of these competitors are mothers. These women have grown, birthed, and continue to sustain life. And they are Olympians. I have wonderful memories watching the Olympics growing up and one athlete that I have admired over the years is Allyson Felix. She has done some amazing things as a track and field star, but her work off the track is just as inspiring. Who is Allyson Felix? Allyson Felix is the most decorated track and field athlete in history. That's right! With a record 20 World Championship medals and 11 medals at the Olympic Games — seven gold, three silver, and one bronze — she ranks among the sport's greats. Throughout her career, Allyson has demonstrated resilience and determination, overcoming setbacks and injuries to achieve greatness on the track. Her dedication to her sport and commitment to excellence have made her a role model for aspiring athletes worldwide. In 2022, Allyson retired from her athletic career after winning her last world championship gold in Eugene, Oregon, ending her career as the most decorated athlete in track and field history. Beyond her athletic achievements, Felix is also recognized for her advocacy work and leadership in promoting gender equality and diversity in sports. She has been a vocal advocate for maternity rights for athletes, sparking important conversations about supporting women athletes during pregnancy and postpartum. She has also been an advocate for Black maternal health for racial disparities in maternal mortality rates in the U.S. For all of her efforts, Allyson was named one of Time Magazine's 100 Most Influential People twice, in 2020 and 2021. Allyson is also a wife and mother to her two children. In November 2018, Allyson gave birth to her daughter, Camryn, early at 32 weeks via emergency C-section due to severe preeclampsia. In April 2024, she welcomed her son, Kenneth (Trey), via an unmedicated VBAC. Her journey as a mother has added a new dimension to her career, inspiring others with her ability to excel both on and off the track. What Did We Discuss? In this episode, we chat with Allyson Felix about her journey through motherhood — from her career as a professional athlete and Olympic champion to embracing life as a mother of two as well as her latest partnership with Pampers. Check out our SHOW NOTES for more details. Chatting with Allyson was such a pleasure. Her humbleness and genuine care for supporting women and mothers is evident and we are so grateful for all that she is doing to make a difference. Listen to the episode to hear her thoughts and story! Allyson Mentioned Allyson mentioned that she used a doula during her last birth. What is a Doula? – Podcast Episode #2 She also said that she used Hypnobabies for her VBAC. An episode with Kerry Tuschhoff, the Founder, Director, & Owner of Hypnobabies: How to Prepare Your Mind and Body for Childbirth – Podcast Episode 9 Allyson Felix's Resources Website: allysonfelix.com Instagram: @allysonfelix X: @allysonfelix Company: Saysh Thank you for listening to this episode! Be sure to follow us on our podcast Instagram page @thebabychickchat. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

NatureBack is the expression of Dr. Yaakov Abdelhak's obstetrical philosophy after more than 3 decades in the field of high-risk perinatology Maternal-Fetal Medicine. It is a goal-oriented practical method that can mitigate or possibly even eliminate the need for a cesarean delivery. Now you can read Dr. Abdelhak's first hand experience in his new book The NatureBack Method.   The NatureBack Philosophy starts at the beginning of pregnancy, with recognition of the factors that can lead to cesarean delivery. The risk of cesarean delivery doesn't arise when a woman goes into labor; it's set long before any medical intervention. In many pregnancies, a cesarean delivery is initiated during the first trimester, and there are steps that can be taken in each trimester and during birth to reduce the need for surgical intervention. Most are familiar with the cesarean epidemic where cesareans account for more than 30 percent of all deliveries in the United States. This is a dramatic increase from the mere five percent of babies delivered by cesarean delivery in 1970. Fingers often point at the bias of overworked obstetricians who want to hurry things along, labor induction, and other seemingly counterproductive medical interventions. There is also the widespread use of the external fetal monitor, which is blamed for fueling the anxiety of litigation-weary obstetricians. Some of these usual suspects have earned their dubious reputation, while others are completely innocent—as the NatureBack philosophy details. NatureBack proports the honest truth about the largest contributing factor to the cesarean wave which is that many babies are just too big. They're so big, in fact, that many can't fit through the pelvis. A very popular, powerful cultural belief is that Mother Nature–the time-tested, proven, physiological, and finely-tuned process–will not let us down. Women have been birthing vaginally for millennia. Is there any reason to believe that a woman would—or even could!—grow a baby so large that it's physically impossible for the baby to safely pass through her birth canal? That Mother Nature would provide each mom with a baby that fits her body seems like common sense. The thing is, we no longer live in Mother Nature's world. Instead, we live in a world very different from the one we adapted to throughout the millennia of human evolution. The process of vaginal birth has remained the same; it's our lifestyles that have changed. We have deviated from nature—and mightily so. Our diets, our activity levels, and our expectations have all evolved (some might say devolved). For most of us, modern society means a sedentary lifestyle. It is synonymous with processed food, with the result that we are now consuming carbohydrates on a scale unprecedented in human history. As a result, babies are growing bigger in gestation than ever before. With the abundance of calories at our disposal, growing babies are turning out to be easier than delivering them. At Maternal Resources, the team is ready to safely guide you and your family through a healthy pregnancy utilizing the NatureBack method to achieve all your pregnancy goals including Natural Vaginal Delivery, if you so choose. You can get your copy of the book on Amazon.    Your feedback is essential to us! We would love to hear from you. Please consider leaving us a review on your podcast platform or sending us an email at info@maternalresources.org. Your input helps us tailor our content to better serve the needs of our listeners. For additional resources and information, be sure to visit our website at Maternal Resources: https://www.maternalresources.org/. You can also connect with us on our social channels to stay up-to-date with the latest news, episodes, and community engagement:      

How does the experience of one birth influence the plans for births that follow? Today we chat with Emilee Petrill, and we pack a lot into a sub-hour conversation. Emilee has experienced a hospital birth with her first son Corbyn, a birthing center for her son Penn and finally a home birth for her son Moxy. She walks us through the processes and decisions around each of those experiences.  Then we get into the details of her home birth, and why she's thinking about a free/unassisted birth for a future baby.  Bonus topics in this conversation include Emilee's experience with consuming her placenta and why she's a big advocate for it, the 10,000+ oz of breast milk she has donated and how the Doing It At Home podcast and community has impacted her body image and sex life! Links From The Episode: Business of Being Born: http://www.thebusinessofbeingborn.com/ Ina May's Guide to Childbirth: https://inamay.com/books/ Hypnobabies: https://www.hypnobabies.com/ Hypnobirthing: https://us.hypnobirthing.com/ Offers From Our Awesome Partners: Needed: https://bit.ly/2DuMBxP - use code DIAH to get 20% off your order Splash Blanket: https://bit.ly/3JPe1g0 - use code DIAH for 10% off your order Esembly: https://bit.ly/3eanCSz - use code DIH20 to get 20% off your order More From Doing It At Home: Send us your birth story: https://bit.ly/3jOjCKl Doing It At Home book on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3vJcPmU DIAH Website: https://www.diahpodcast.com/ DIAH Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doingitathome/ DIAH YouTube: https://bit.ly/3pzuzQC DIAH Merch: www.diahpodcast.com/merch Give Back to DIAH: https://bit.ly/3qgm4r9 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Meagan has a new co-host today! Rebecca, a pelvic floor physical therapist and a VBAC Link doula located in Georgia joins Meagan while our friend Hannah from North Carolina shares her birth stories. This episode stresses again the true importance of not just a supportive provider, but of a supportive practice including hospital policies, the team of rotating providers, and the nurses. Hannah shows how her borderline preeclamptic symptoms were treated very differently between her first and second births. Her first practice had many red flags she didn't notice until her second practice showed green flag after green flag throughout her entire journey. Rebecca also shares her expertise surrounding pelvic floor PT– who needs it and how it can impact birth outcomes. She also debunks myths about small pelvises and talks in depth about scar tissue. Both women share such valuable tips that we know you will love!Real Food for Pregnancy by Lily NicholsNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details 03:11 Review of the Week05:13 Hannah's stories08:17 Higher blood pressure readings and induction10:26 Induction due to high blood pressure readings11:52 Interventions and not being able to move during labor16:50 Hannah's C-section19:36 Rebecca's thoughts about pelvic bone structure22:42 Second pregnancy29:01 A medically necessary induction33:27 Ending the first full day of induction38:03 Pushing for 20 minutes39:59 Hannah's advice to listeners - provider support and nutrition44:17 Small pelvises and scar tissue50:13 Other scar tissue that can affect positioningMeagan: Hey, hey Women of Strength. It is Meagan and guess what? We have a cohost today, a new cohost who has never been with us and we are so excited that she is joining us. We have Rebecca Goldberg on our podcast today. Hello, Rebecca. Rebecca: Hello. Meagan: Thank you for taking the time and being with us. Rebecca: Yeah. I really love the resources and the community and I'm just thrilled to be here. Meagan: Well, we are excited and for anyone wondering who Rebecca is, she is an amazing human being. She actually does a lot in pelvic PT and is one of our VBAC-certified doulas. She's in Georgia. Rebecca: Yep. I'm in Atlanta, the Decatur area. Meagan: Decatur area. Is that where you serve mainly? Rebecca: Yeah. I have people who come to me from all over. Some people are traveling up to an hour or an hour and a half, but I actually can go to people's homes who are directly in my area. So, people who are post-C-section, I can come to you as early as the day you are discharged. I can work with you deal with pain, make sure you know what needs to happen, and help you do all of the things. That's where my passion really lies. Meagan: I love that. I love that and for VBAC, how early for pelvic floor and stuff? How early can you start working with them? Rebecca: As soon as they have gotten home. If they are planning on getting pregnant again, we can start building that into what our plans are so that we are starting that process earlier rather than later and you're more likely to have results that when you are ready to get pregnant, you can just get pregnant. Meagan: Love it. Awesome. Well, thank you, thank you for being here. 03:11 Review of the WeekMeagan: You guys, as usual, we have a Review of the Week. You don't have to listen to me stumble upon the review. Rebecca will read it. I'm sure she will do a lot better than I normally do. Rebecca: Well, this review is from Apple Podcasts and it's from semicrunchyyogi. I love that name. The review says, “My personal VBAC journey was actually directly influenced by Meagan Heaton, one of the hosts on this podcast. She was my doula with my second baby, my 10-pound VBAC baby.” Whoa. Meagan: Woo, yeah. Rebecca: “When she started this podcast, I knew it would be something special. I will always be passionate about VBAC and making sure women are given options, respect, and support through their birth journeys. This podcast does just that. This podcast is so needed and addresses important myths about VBAC and birth. Thank you so much, Julie and Meagan, for using your passion to support other women. You two are amazing examples of Women of Strength.” And then there's a heart. Meagan: Aww, I love that. Thank you semicrunchyyogi. Rebecca: Yogi, yeah. Meagan: That is awesome. Thank you so much. 05:13 Hannah's storiesMeagan: Okay, you guys. We have our friend, Hannah, from North Carolina so if you are from North Carolina, listen up. I feel like it's so important for us to start talking about where all of these Women of Strength are coming from because there are so many of us out there in the world who want to know where these people are because finding a supportive provider we know can be challenging. We have our friend, Hannah, from North Carolina sharing her amazing VBAC story. For anyone wondering a little bit more in relation to her story, she had preeclampsia I think actually with her both. Is that correct? Hannah: Yeah. With my first, they qualified it as gestational hypertension and then my second was preeclampsia. Meagan: So your VBAC was actually preeclamptic. Hannah: Yes.  Meagan: Awesome. Okay. That is something that we see a lot in our community. People are wondering if VBAC is possible with preeclampsia. We don't actually have a lot of stories on the podcast. In fact, you may be one of the first actually sharing in almost 300 episodes which is kind of sad. Hannah: Wow. Meagan: So we are really excited to talk about this, and you did have that CPD diagnosis like so many of us. Yeah. I'm going to welcome you on to share your stories. Hannah: Yeah, well thank you so much for having me. I've been listening for a while and I'm so excited to be here. I do live in the Triangle region of North Carolina. I'm just south of Raleigh in a town called Fuquay-Varina. A lot of people probably won't recognize that name, but if you are in the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area, I do have a great recommendation for a supportive provider there. Meagan: Is that more of a rural area? Hannah: It used to be pretty rural and just in the last 10-15 years, it's exploded. We're getting a Target and that's a big deal for us. Meagan: Yay! Every place is better with a Target. Hannah: Yes. Yes. Agreed. Meagan: Awesome. Okay, yeah. Let's hear about your 6-year-old, the one that you just started listening to the podcast after. Hannah: Yeah. Yeah, just to jump in, I had my first son in July of 2017 and I was a first-time mom. I went to a midwife practice, but they were midwives who delivered at the hospital that was closest to where I lived. I had been seeing them for a few years just for my general well-woman check-up. I liked them. I felt like I had a good rapport with them, so I stuck with that. My pregnancy was good. I was working full-time. I was a traveling salesperson at the time. That got to be a little tricky towards the end. In my third trimester, I started swelling. They were like, “Oh, we just need to keep an eye on this. It could be normal. If it gets coupled with high blood pressure, then it might be concerning.” 08:17 Higher blood pressure readings and inductionHannah: Around 35 weeks, I did have high blood pressure readings. Just on the side, I have a history of white coat syndrome even as a teenager. My blood pressure would shoot up in the office so that's always been an issue for me and I was concerned about that for pregnancy because I knew high blood pressure, pregnancy, high risk, and I was hoping for an intervention-free birth in the hospital. Meagan: Yeah. Hannah: I did all of the things, I thought. I had a doula. I had read Ina May Gaskin. Meagan: Guide to Childbirth. Hannah: Yes. I did HypnoBabies. Meagan: You were very prepared. Hannah: Yes. I felt very prepared but I think I didn't have the understanding. I just heard midwife and I just thought, “Oh, natural birth.” I didn't research the hospital too much so I just didn't know what I didn't know. At 35 weeks, they diagnosed me with gestational hypertension. They were pretty aggressive in their management of it. They told me, “You are done working. You are not going back to work. You are on bedrest.” Basically, they said, “You can shower, use the bathroom, and make yourself food, but other than that, you should be lying down and we will definitely induce you by your due date at the latest.” Meagan: Do you remember what your readings were reflecting at that time? Hannah: Yes. I think in the office, it would be maybe 140/85 or 90 but then at home, I had my own cuff and they were reading normal like 118/70 and stuff like that. Meagan: Interesting. So definitely some white coat syndrome maybe and then they were pushing the induction when overall, your pressures were probably pretty regular. Hannah: Yes. That was just, I don't know. It was hard to know what was the right thing to do in that situation because I was a first-time mom. I don't want to put my baby at risk. Eventually, they agreed to induce me. I went in the night before my due date. I had been going in for extra monitoring. I had NSTs and biophysical profiles, so everything was good. They just, because I had that gestational hypertension label, they wanted me to deliver by my due date. I did go into the hospital the night before my due date. I think I was maybe a centimeter dilated, 50% effaced. I did the whole Foley bulb overnight. They thought, “Oh, that's going to stay in for 12 hours.” They put it in and then within an hour and a half, it comes out and I'm 4 centimeters dilated. Meagan: That's awesome.Hannah: Yeah. It got off to a good note. They were like, “Oh, this is going to go great. You're going to do great tomorrow.” I'm like, “Oh, okay.” I tried to get sleep. Everyone knows in the hospital even with an ambian, you don't sleep. My doula came the next morning. I believe they started Pitocin around 7:00 AM. I really was hoping not to get the epidural. I just had this fear of that cascade of interventions. I did know about that and I just felt like, “Okay. I'm going to try to do everything I can to keep that from happening,” because a C-section was something I was very fearful of. I'm an only child. My mom delivered me via C-section. It was a hard delivery and I just had always had a fear of that being my story. 11:52 Interventions and not being able to move during laborHannah: Things were going fine on the Pitocin. I was working through the contractions. They were just very odd. They didn't want me out of the bed. Thankfully, I did have my doula there. She was like, “Just stand next to the bed. Sit on the birth ball,” but they were just treating me like someone with severe preeclampsia would be treated and that just was not my case. Even they didn't really want me getting up to go to the bathroom a lot. They were telling me I couldn't walk the halls. I couldn't use the shower. It was very odd. So around noon, the midwife says, “Hey, I want to break your water.” I said, “I'm really not comfortable with that. I think I'm making a whole lot of progress. I've only been on Pitocin for a few hours. I'd really not have my water broken.” She says, “Well, you're here to be induced for a reason. We need to speed this up, so I would really like to break your water.”  Meagan: Oh dear. Hannah: Yeah. That's really where things started going downhill for me. I didn't really understand at the time, a doula can't say, “Hey, she said she doesn't want that done. She doesn't want that.” But I also didn't really get the support I needed I guess in that moment when I was vulnerable. I didn't really have anyone to say, “Hey, do you want to talk for a minute and come back to this?” So I did agree. I mean, I guess verbally I agreed. I didn't feel like I was agreeing, but she broke my water and after that, I just remember things intensified so much. I remember by around 3:00 PM being in excruciating pain and that's when I asked for the epidural. It took two hours for them to bring it. I finally got the epidural and I just immediately fell asleep because we had been there for probably 20 hours at this point.Meagan: Were you feeling any specific discomfort in the back? Were there any signs that maybe baby would have been in a poor position after the floodgates opened? Hannah: It's interesting. That actually will come up once the C-section is performed. We were told at my– I think I had a biophysical profile at 39 weeks and the tech was like, “Oh, your baby is posterior,” but I didn't really understand what that meant. But when he was delivered, they did say he was in the anterior position, so I just remember contractions being unbearable and I think it was because of the level of Pitocin I was on. They just ramped it up. I even remember at one point, the midwife saying to me– so once I had the epidural, I'm laying down resting, I had asked for a peanut ball, but no one really helped me with it. My doula tried to but I don't know. The nurse I got that day was not very helpful. Then my poor husband is usually my rock. He is so strong, but he just was like a deer in the headlights because it was his first time going through this and it was just rough. Hannah: So finally, that night at 8:00 PM, the midwife comes and checks. She's like, “Yeah, you're still only 4 centimeters dilated. I think the baby is developing a caput.” How do you say it?  Meagan: A caput. Which is interesting. At 4 centimeters, do you remember how low your baby was? Because at 4 centimeters, baby getting caput, baby must have been coming low.Hannah: And that's the thing, he wasn't. He was still at a -2 station. Meagan: Huh. So not even engaged. Hannah: Yeah. So I don't know. She was like, “You know, I really think you need a C-section. I think your pelvis is too small.” I was like, “Okay. Wow. That was not something I'd ever been told in all of these years of going to this practice.” She was like, “So that would be my recommendation. I could give you one more hour.” I said, “Okay.” I'm crying at this point. I'm like, “In your professional opinion, do you think an hour would make a difference?” She said, “No.” Again, I did ultimately agree to that C-section. I signed off on it, but I was very upset. This isn't what I want. I was honestly so out of it at this point. It's hard to remember some of it. Yeah. As soon as I agreed, they came in there. They give you the form. They are wheeling you down the hall. There was never really an issue of my baby being in distress. It just was kind of like, “Oh, you've been here for a while. You're not progressing. Let's just go ahead and do a C-section,” and then her commenting that my pelvis was too small. 16:50 Hannah's C-sectionHannah: I go to the operating room. Everything goes pretty standard, but my husband does go to stand up when they are delivering the baby. He was like, “Great. I wanted to see it.” As the doctor goes to pull the baby out, she says, “Oh. I've never seen this before.” She's been in practice for 25 years. It turned out my son had the umbilical cord wrapped around both hands and both feet and then that was together. Meagan: Oh. Hannah: She said, “Oh, your baby is tied.” Meagan: Wow. Hannah: Yeah, so it's like, “Okay. It does make sense why he wasn't descending.”Meagan: Yeah. Hannah: He's good. I'm good. I did have a hard recovery. They tried to show him to me. I start vomiting on the operating table and then it just gets blurry from there. It was just really hard. I don't remember holding him for the first time in the recovery room. All of it is very blurry until the next morning. Yeah, but overall, recovery went well. I had a very hard time breastfeeding him. He was a very, very tense baby– tongue tie, lip tie, and all of that, so that was stressful. Meagan: Man, you had a lot. That was a lot. Hannah: Yeah. It was hard. Meagan: Yeah. It's kind of interesting because knowing that, “Oh, yeah your baby was really wound up in here,” that would make more sense than just diagnosing you with CPD. Hannah: Yes. That's what I thought. I was like, “Okay.” The midwife was saying that during labor. Maybe she just thought that because I wasn't progressing, baby wasn't descending. So then at my six-week checkup, I asked to see the doctor who delivered my son in the surgery. I saw her and I was just debriefing with her. I said, “Do you think that was the reason he couldn't come out?” She was like, “Yeah, probably.” But then she didn't even really examine me. I had to ask. I was like, “Are you going to check my C-section scar? Are you going to do an internal? What am I here for?” She was like, “Yeah, fine. I can do that.” She goes, “Oh, no. You have a flat pubic bone. You shouldn't even try to have a VBAC,” then basically walks out of the room as I'm crying. Meagan: Oh my gosh. I have a question for Rebecca in here and pelvic floor and stuff. Do you see flat pubic bones and is that truly something that causes an issue?19:36 Rebecca's thoughts about pelvic bone structureRebecca: I can't imagine so. I mean, if you think about the way that the baby comes down, the pubic bones are not super involved. You have the pubic symphysis which is the little cartilage between the pubic bones. That gets soft just like all of our other joints due to relaxin and that makes everything moveable. There are people who even have that separate. The shape of the pubic bones– it just seems a little bit odd to me. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I mean, I'm thinking that I can put my fingers exactly where I felt when mine did start to separate and I have a wonky pelvis too. My pelvis goes all funky. It's just so interesting to me to always hear that providers jump right to, “Your bones are not good enough.”Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. That was so hard to hear because it was like, “Oh, something is wrong with me. It's my fault.” Then a midwife who I was closer with there, when I saw her when my baby was about 6 months old for just my annual exam, I asked her about that comment. She said, “Oh, I think what she was saying is you have a narrow pelvic arch.” Okay. Meagan: Okay, all right. 22:42 Second pregnancyMeagan: Did you go into this next pregnancy feeling doubtful of your pelvis?Hannah: Oh absolutely. Yes. Yeah. I definitely was very nervous. I mean, I remember searching through groups on Facebook or the Babysitter App “Flat pubic bone, narrow pelvic arch” to see if anyone else had been diagnosed with that and gone on to successfully have a VBAC. Meagan: Right, yeah. So baby #2. Hannah: Yep. I ended up actually getting pregnant when my first son was about 3 years old. I literally had just been dreaming about having a VBAC since my first son was born. I feel so thankful that I found your podcast, the Facebook community of The VBAC Link and I also found my local ICAN group who just was so helpful in finding my new provider. I switched to that new provider before I even got pregnant just because I knew I was not going back to that first practice ever for anything. Meagan: Yeah. That's actually something I suggest highly. A lot of the time, we don't think about finding that provider until we are pregnant, but finding a provider when we're not pregnant is kind of weird. There is this vulnerability that we don't have. We have this– it sounds silly– tougher skin when we're not pregnant. Hannah: No, I totally get that. Meagan: You're in a different headspace. You're like, “No, I already know I'm not going back to this person. I'm going to find this new person and go now.” Hannah: Yeah. So thankfully, I did find them. The hospital was a 45-minute drive so it was a big difference from my first where the hospital was only 20 minutes away, but that was so worth it to me. I was pregnant during COVID. I got pregnant in September 2020, so things were weird anyway. Appointments were more spaced out. Some of them were virtual. I feel bad saying this because I know so many people had a hard time with not having their husbands or partners come with them to appointments, but it actually was kind of nice that I didn't have to go in as much just because of my anxiety with the doctor's office. But I really did like the midwives that I was seeing at this new practice and the issue about my blood pressure did get brought up. I had a couple of high readings early on in the pregnancy. I think I went to my first appointment around 13 weeks in person and definitely had a high reading. It sounded like they actually believed me this time though. When I told them about the white coat syndrome and my past, they took my word and were like, “We get it. We see it all the time. Have a blood pressure monitor at home and if you could at your next appointment, bring it in. We'll test your blood pressure on that and on the machine just to make sure it's accurate.” Just with that, I felt so validated. Rebecca: I was just going to say that's really wonderful that your providers did that and they just accepted you at your word. That's really beautiful. Hannah: Yeah. I felt like that was such a difference. People talk about red flags all the time, but I felt like that was a green flag like, “Okay. This is someone who is actually listening to me as a patient.” Things went great. I actually got to a point where my readings in the office were normal. I think just from feeling more relaxed and more supported. I brought up the whole small pelvis thing. I had several midwives say, “I don't believe that. We hear that all the time. We're not going to worry about that.” So everything went great up until about 37 weeks when I got COVID. Thank God I did not have a hard time with it at all. It was a sinus infection, but I missed my 37-week appointment then when I went in for my 38-week appointment, my blood pressure was elevated so that was concerning for them given my history. Meagan: That's interesting. I'm curious if it was correlated at all, or if it was just your history because sometimes we know if we've got preeclampsia in the past, we may be more likely to have it in the future, but I'm curious if that's related at all. Hannah: I know. I know. I've wondered that and it's so hard because I don't think I'll ever definitively know, but it seems like, “Oh, you were fine at 36 weeks. You get COVID at 37 weeks and then high blood pressure the next week.” But I was also going through some other stressful things. I had a family member pass away. I had a situation with my dog where he almost passed away and that's like my first baby. Oh, and then I broke my foot at 36 weeks pregnant. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Hannah: Yeah. I know. Meagan: Holy cow. Hannah: It sounds insane. It sounds insane, but anyway. Meagan: That's a lot to endure right before your birth. Hannah: Yeah, so I'm like, it probably wasn't the COVID, it probably was the stress. Sorry, I'm laughing but that's just my way of dealing with stress. So I go to that appointment and they go, “Ooh, your blood pressure is high.” They did do an NST on the baby and unfortunately, I feel like this happens to me and other people a lot. This midwife that particular day I had not met yet and she was definitely one of the more strict ones. She was like, “You know, I really think you need to go to the hospital to be monitored.” I was like, “Well, let's do the NST. Let's see how that goes.” They had taken my bloodwork. I was like, “Can we just wait and see what the bloodwork comes back as?” She kind of gave me a hard time about that. She was like, “You don't want to leave here not knowing if your baby is okay.” I'm like, “I feel like my baby is fine.” I remember calling my doula on the way home just hysterical about her saying that and thankfully, my doula was amazing and just like, “Don't worry about it. They are checking your blood. Everything will be fine.” I did go home. I rested. Thankfully, my older son was with my mother-in-law, but then that evening, I got a call and they were like, “Hannah, you are showing some signs in your labs on the actual bloodwork of borderline preeclampsia,” is what they were saying. 29:01 A medically necessary inductionHannah: This was a different midwife than I was seeing earlier in the day. She said, “I do think you need to come to the hospital and have a baby tonight.” That was really scary for me in that moment. Meagan: Yeah, it's hard because you are like, “This is not what I wanted.” It's hard to mentally go back to the same beginning in a way. Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I just remember calling my husband. He was still at work and I was just hysterical. I was like, “This is going to end in a C-section again. This is exactly what I was worried about.” He thankfully was so calming and was like, “You can't think like that. Let's just go and see what happens.” He comes home. We pack our stuff up and we drive the 45 minutes to the hospital. We get there and I'm just very distressed by having the sweetest midwife who just sat on the bed with me and was holding my hand and was like, “Look, it's going to be okay. Everything is going to be fine. We're going to do everything in our power to get you this VBAC. Do not let this make you feel like that's not happening now.” So that was so comforting and being 38 weeks, I was not dilated at all. I think I was maybe 50% effaced and the baby was at -2 station so we definitely had to do the whole Foley bulb again which for anyone who has had that done–Meagan: So you have a Foley placed with a closed cervix. Hannah: Yeah. Meagan: You're a champ. That is definitely something that is not super comfortable for the listeners to know, but it is possible even though a lot of providers say it's not. Hannah: Yeah, and I hear that a lot. I guess I just got very fortunate with the midwife who was on call. They definitely did give me some medication to help me relax. Meagan: Fentanyl or something? Hannah: Actually Adavan.Meagan: Oh Adavan?Hannah: I have very bad anxiety anyway and they gave me that to help me relax which it did. They got that inserted and it was so weird because the time I was expecting the same thing with my first, “Oh, it comes out in an hour and a half.” It didn't. It was there for the whole 12 hours. The next morning, they started Pitocin. Eventually, I think they just took the Foley bulb out and I think at that point I was maybe 3 centimeters dilated. I was on Pitocin for 5 or 6 hours but it was just so crazy to me because even with it being COVID times, I was allowed to walk around the halls. I had wireless monitoring. They even let me get in the bathtub in the room. It was just so different from the experience that I had at the hospital with my first. I just really loved their process. They, of course, were kind of concerned with the preeclampsia diagnosis, but since my labs were staying stable, my blood pressures weren't rising, I think they were probably in the 140s/high 80s-low 90s range, they really did let me take it slow since there wasn't a major concern for me or the baby's health in regards to the blood pressure. I remember they even turned my Pitocin off for a little bit this afternoon and one of the midwives was like, “Hey, this is something that may not work, but would you be willing to take some Tums? There is research showing that it could possibly reset your oxytocin receptors in your uterus.” I remember her being like, “It sounds kind of woo, but it's worth a try.” Meagan: I have never heard of this. I am fascinated. Tums resetting our oxytocin. Hannah: Yeah. It's crazy. The research is there if you just Google “Tums, Pitocin”Meagan: Oxytocin receptors. Okay, you keep sharing. I'm going to dive into this for a bit because I've been a doula for 10 years and I've never heard of this and I love it. This is cool. All right, keep going. Hannah: Yeah. I took the Tums. We turned the Pitocin off for a little bit. They were like, “Try to rest. Eat a snack.” That was the other thing. They were so encouraging of me eating and drinking whereas my first birth, they were like, “You can't have anything but ice chips.” We did turn the Pitocin back on for about 6 hours that evening. 33:27 Ending the first full day of inductionHannah: I think at the end of that day– so this was the first full day of induction, I was still around 4 centimeters. I had a new nurse come on and a new midwife comes on. They were just so awesome. I definitely had an emotional breakdown at that point. My awesome doula had been with me and my husband all day. She went home for the evening to get some rest. They were like, “What do you want to do? You are looking good. Baby is looking good.” My water was still intact at that point. I was like, “I just want to sleep tonight. I know if I do not sleep tonight, I'm not going to have the energy to finish this birth.” It was amazing because the charge nurse did not want me to stop the Pitocin and my midwife and my nurse basically went to bat for me. They were like, “No. She's fine. We're going to give her Benadryl. We're going to let her sleep. We're turning the Pitocin off. And that's what we did. I slept. I actually got to rest that night. They came back at 5:00 AM and rehung the Pit. I did agree to my water being broken at 8:00 AM because at this point, we had been in the hospital for almost 36 hours and baby needed to come out. That just in and of itself, I felt like that was my choice. No one ever pressured me. It was all my choice. I did agree to my water being broken. That was around probably 9:00 AM and I just continued laboring. It was great. I remember I had my bathroom. There are no windows in there and I had my fairy lights and my music playing and my doula had essential oils diffusing and that was my cave. I felt like I could go in there and just shut out being at the hospital and really focus on labor, sitting on the toilet, and eventually, I did get to a point around 1:00 where I started to have a hard time coping. I was like, “You know, I don't know if I want to do this anymore.” I gave it another hour and I was like, “Okay. I need the epidural.” I did get the epidural around 2:00 that day. It was just amazing because even getting the epidural, the nurses were like, “Hey, let's put you in throne position. Let's pull out the stirrups and get one leg up. In 30 minutes, let's switch to the other leg. Let's get the peanut ball.” I felt like they were doing all of these things to help me that I had never experienced in my first birth. I felt like they wanted me to have the birth that I was desiring so badly almost as much as I did. Meagan: I love them already. I don't even know that. Hannah: I know. I know. Can I say who it is? The hospital I was at was actually the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and it was the UNC midwives who was my practice that I delivered with but even the nurses at that hospital are just amazing. They were all literal angels. I love them. Meagan: We will make sure that they are on our provider list. Hannah: Yes. Yes. They are wonderful. So that went on. I think around maybe 6:00 I was checked and I was hanging around 5 centimeters. I got really discouraged at that point. I was like, “You know, maybe I just can't do it. Maybe my body is just not going to dilate.” But they weren't worried. They just kept helping me move and then I do remember shift change happened. A new nurse comes on and a new midwife. This was probably the 5th shift change by the time we had been in there and the midwife came in and checked me. She was like, “Oh, you're 6 centimeters.” I remember so many stories of women being like, “The first 5 are the hardest.” Meagan: Mhmm. Hannah: I was like, “Okay. Maybe that's true.” Then literally, at 9:40, the midwife came back, checked me, and she was like, “How far dilated do you hope you are?” I'm thinking, “Well, gosh. I hope at least a 7 or 8.” She had a tear and she was like, “You are 10 centimeters.”  Meagan: Oh yay! Hannah: Yes. I started bawling and it was so crazy because my first son was born at 9:42 PM and that was right about when I was 10 centimeters. For some reason, I knew if I could make it to 10 centimeters, I knew I could push my baby out. The pushing him out was not the part that I was scared of. It was like, “Oh, is my body going to be able to get to that point?” But yeah. I remember my husband and doula being so excited because they brought in the cart and they brought in a mirror and I started pushing. It's just so crazy thinking back to that seeing that happening. 38:03 Pushing for 20 minutesHannah: I pushed for 20 minutes and both of my boys were a surprise. We didn't know what gender they would be. 20 minutes later, my second beautiful baby boy was born healthy, screaming, put directly on my chest and it was one of the best moments of my entire life. Meagan: Oh my gosh. I love this story. I love all of the support and all of the love and all of the amp that was just completely surrounded around you and then you had the confidence in your body at that end where you were like, “Okay. I've got this.” 20 minutes? Hannah: Yeah. I was like, “Oh, here's my small pelvis with my flat pubic bone.” Meagan: Yeah. I love that so much. Do you know what? I just was looking at our provider list and guess what? It says that UNC midwives are on our list and it says specifically that they are also VBA2C supportive. Hannah: Yeah. I think that's the only hospital in our area that generally will support after two Cesareans. Meagan: So awesome. I'm glad that they are on the list. I wanted to make sure because they sound phenomenal. I would love to connect with one of them and just have them on the podcast honestly and say, “Talk to me about your unit and your guys' way of thinking. This is the way so many people want to birth when they are birthing in the hospital, but we don't have these options and we don't have these systems and we don't have these policies or these beliefs or whatever” because they sound amazing.Hannah: They are. I know they are on Instagram just @uncmidwives so they are easy to find. Meagan: Okay. I might be messaging them. Hannah: If anyone is a Tar Heels fan out there, that was a big portion there too. My husband was like, “Our baby was born at Chapel Hill.” That's a big thing for North Carolina people. Meagan: That is so awesome. Oh my gosh. 39:59 Hannah's advice to listeners - provider support and nutritionMeagan: Any advice that you would give to someone who especially is preeclamptic with induction and all of these things? Do you have any advice that you would give to our listeners?Hannah: Yeah. I mean, number one, and I feel like you guys really help express this, but a supportive provider. Evidence shows that induction for VBAC can be safe. Of course, do we want an unnecessary induction? No, not ever, but in a situation like mine where preeclampsia is a concern, that shouldn't exclude you from being able to have a VBAC. Meagan: Mhmm. Hannah: I think asking a provider those questions maybe before you even get pregnant, “Would you induce for VBAC? Under what circumstances? What is your VBAC rate?” That's what I would tell women who are looking for that. Meagan: I love that and I agree. I would echo that asking those questions and not being scared to ask them because you deserve to know and you deserve to find the provider who is going to connect with you personally and your desires because we know through talking to Dr. Fox and all of these other providers, not every provider is the same and that's okay. That doesn't make them a bad provider. They just may not be supportive of your desires. Hannah: Mhmm. Meagan: With your first one, I feel like you had more of that med-wife mentality. Hannah: Yes. I found that word after I had him and I was like, “Oh, that makes sense.” Meagan: Yes. What else were you going to say?Hannah: Just going back to preeclampsia, the other thing I would say that I didn't know a whole lot about with my second or first pregnancy was how much nutrition affects preeclampsia. I believe you've had someone on your podcast who has discussed that before just how there are so many things you are told like, “You shouldn't be eating salt,” and actually, that's not true. You shouldn't be eating processed food, but women in pregnancy need salt so I did find there's the Brewer diet. I think that can be– I've heard amazing stories about that from women who have had preeclampsia in the past. There is a nutritionist I follow on Instagram. She is Aloha Nutrition and she is pregnant with twins right now. I think she is almost 40 weeks old. Her blood pressure has been awesome and she attributes it to beetroot. Meagan: Uh-huh. Okay, yes. I've had a client who had preeclampsia with her first really, really early, and beets and liver, and these types of things really impact. I mean, that's why I personally and I'm throwing in a shameless plug here, but that is why I personally love Needed so much because they have really dove in to find out what nutrients you need and help you get it because there are so many of these nutrients that are lacking in our day-to-day foods and it's overwhelming to learn about them and find them and then find the good resource of where to get them. It really can be impactful just like Aloha Nutrition is showing. It's very common with twins to get that high blood pressure. Hannah: Yeah, so I think nutrition is huge and I think that's just one of the really big problems is that we are not being looked at as a whole person when we are pregnant. It's just that we are being looked at, “Oh, you have preeclampsia. This is what the research shows,” but so much of that research is outdated and they are not focusing on those foundations like nutrition that are so important during pregnancy. Meagan: Absolutely. Yeah. It was Lily Nichols who I had on, but she has more about gestational diabetes. She also has her book for pregnancy in general and I would highly suggest checking that book out. Rebecca: I recommend it to all pregnant moms. It's on my bookshelf. I love it. Meagan: Same. She really is so incredible. I could talk to her for hours and hours and hours on nutrition and pregnancy and how impactful it is. I mean, yeah. It's just so hard. We have so much processed stuff going on in our worlds and it's easy and it's fast, but yeah. We are lacking a lot so I love that you put that note in. 44:17 Small pelvises and scar tissueMeagan: And then Rebecca, at the end of this, I wanted to talk a little bit about the pelvic floor and how C-sections can actually impact the pelvic floor health, and then ways to address it, what we can do, and how we can plan for VBAC moving forward. Rebecca: Yeah. I just wanted to back up and touch on this idea of having a small pelvis, that your pelvis, the outlet can grow by 30% which is huge, as you are giving birth as long as your sacrum which is your tailbone and your lower pelvis is able to move which is why being off the bed is the place to be because then everything can move and your body can actually grow and expand. Your bones do. That's one of the reasons we have relaxin.So many people are just like, “Yeah. I was told I have a small pelvis.” I'm like, “Were you on your back?” They are like, “Oh, yes I was.” Then I'm like, “Well, your pelvis was likely closed. It can open. We can make it open.” Meagan: It was actually physically smaller. Rebecca: Yes and the bones could not move to make more space for the baby. It's just really interesting. A lot of people actually surprisingly believe that a C-section is a way to save your pelvic floor from any sort of injury or trauma when having children and that is not the case. I don't know if either of you has heard that before. Meagan: Yeah. Okay, so I had a really petite Asian client. She had a C-section. She really wanted a VBAC. I have so many feelings about this birth, but they literally told her that if she wanted to poop herself for the rest of her life, she could have a VBAC and if not, then they would highly suggest a C-section because that would be the only way to avoid her having severe incontinence with her bowels. Rebecca: That is awful. Meagan: It terrified her. Rebecca: That is fearmongering at its worst. Meagan: Yeah. As a doula, sitting there watching it– and I had already watched them preparing the C-section in the hall previously. I had seen the Cesarean coming and I warned them, “They are preparing this. Nothing is showing that we need to do this,” but that was one of the reasons and she was terrified. I just said, “That's not necessarily true,” but it stuck with her. It impacted her so badly that she said, “Okay. Let's do it.” Rebecca: I'm really sorry that she had that experience. Meagan: Me too. Rebecca: Yeah. People think again this idea that your pelvic floor is spared, but you can still have pelvic floor dysfunction even if you have a C-section. You can still have leaking. You can still have pain with sex. You can still have constipation issues because people forget you spent the last 10 months growing this baby and your pelvic floor was working to support it. It is affected regardless of how you birth which is why every person who births should be getting some sort of assessment by a pelvic PT. I don't know if you are aware of that, but then if you have scar tissue because you birthed via C-section, the scar tissue can actually impede all sorts of things. The three most common side effects are hip and back pain, pain with sex, and urgency and frequency with urination which doesn't sound great and nobody really talks about it. Meagan: They normalize it. Rebecca: Yeah, agreed. It's just, “You had a baby so that's what you should expect.” We should expect better. We should always expect better. So by addressing that scar tissue, you can actually manage a lot of those things and hit them off long before they become a problem. Meagan: Yeah, it's interesting. I didn't know about scar massage or pelvic PT a ton until after my second C-section but then I started doing all of the things and I have a lot of adhesions. She could feel them internally and then we would work on my scar. My back pain would reduce. I did notice a difference during sex and things like that. She was like, “No, let's work this out for your vaginal birth because you also have trauma in general” which can sometimes be held in the pelvic floor. We have physical trauma and adhesions being created then I had emotional trauma and a lot of that, I carried in my pelvic floor. Rebecca: It's very common for people to carry that in their pelvic floor because our society says that peeing and pooping and sex is all taboo so maybe you didn't learn about it. Maybe yes, you are having sex but it's a shameful thing for you because of your upbringing. There are a lot of reasons that can contribute to this pelvic floor dysfunction. Constipation is actually one of the biggest indications that you may have a long stage one labor just because you may have a tight pelvic floor which means you may have difficulty relaxing it. Let's be real. You don't need a strong pelvic floor to birth a baby. You need a relaxed pelvic floor. You need to let the muscles get out of the way so that baby can come out because the pelvic floor is not pushing the baby out. Your uterus is.  Meagan: Uterus, yeah. Yeah. 50:13 Other scar tissue that can affect positioningMeagan: All fascinating. I highly suggest checking out a pelvic floor specialist no matter if you've had a vaginal birth but especially if you've had a C-section because like she said, it doesn't mean that we don't have things to work through and even if we've had a C-section too, I want to point out that we can also have scar tissue on the cervix from things like IUPCs being placed or if we have ever had a forceps birth or just in general. Things can happen where we've got cervical scarring that needs to be worked through so that for our VBAC, we can progress. I love hearing that Hannah was able to go in and get a Foley with a closed cervix and have this beautiful VBAC, but sometimes, that is definitely hard to get a provider to even do those interventions, and then if we have scar tissue on top of that, that can also cause things to be a little harder. Rebecca: One more point about scar tissue, even if you've had your appendix out or you have had a laparoscopic surgery, those sorts of things can actually affect the position of the baby. It can cause breech positioning or can cause you discomfort because the scar tissue is not allowing your body to expand as it needs to. So even those things are some really wonderful things that pelvic PT can help you with even if you didn't have a C-section. Meagan: Love it. Awesome. Well, if you are in the Georgia area, definitely check out Dr. Rebecca and if you are in the North Carolina area, definitely go check out UNC midwives. Is that right?Hannah: Right. That's them. Meagan: UNC midwives and keep listening here because these stories just like this and information like this are what we want to do. It's what we want to provide for you. If you have a certain topic or something like that that you are looking forward to, please email us at info@thevbaclink.com because we want to try to make sure we get that on the show. Thank you guys so much for being with us today.Rebecca: Thank you. Hannah: Thank you.ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

During her first pregnancy, Selah's doctor predicted that her baby would be over 10 pounds. She insisted that it was not safe to deliver vaginally. Selah went right into her first Cesarean. She didn't even have the chance to try. Her baby went to the NICU shortly after birth due to lung and blood sugar complications.When her fluid levels were low with her second pregnancy, Selah consented to another scheduled Cesarean remembering how her first one went pretty smoothly. Unfortunately, a turn of events resulted in an emergent situation, another NICU stay, and once again, Selah was not able to bond with her baby like she thought she would. Selah's journey to her VBA2C included discovering The VBAC Link, building her supportive community, prenatal chiropractic care, and relentlessly educating herself to make sure she was set up for success. Though her labor was MUCH longer than expected, the spiritual, emotional, and physical transformation she experienced was completely worth it. Selah had a beautiful, empowering VBA2C with no complications. The best part– she got to hold that sweet baby immediately and for as looong as she wanted. Needed WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details 01:04 Review of the Week 04:08 Selah's first pregnancy07:25 First C-section 09:36 NICU11:10 Second pregnancy13:02 Low fluids16:29 Scheduled Cesarean turned emergent21:39 Surprise third pregnancy27:33 Changing providers36:33 Going into labor39:20 Going to the hospital44:54 Pitocin48:35 The final hours56:47 A crack in the catheter1:00:00 The best feelingMeagan: Hello, hello everybody. You are listening to The VBAC Link and this is Meagan, your host. We have our friend, Selah, today. Hi, Selah. Selah: Hi. Hello. Meagan: Thank you so much for being here with us. I feel like there are so many parts of your story that truly are things that people are going to relate to. We're going to be talking about bigger babies. We're going to talk a little bit about that. We're going to talk about changing a provider really late in pregnancy. I actually love this topic because I did it myself and it's one that is scary sometimes to do. Selah: Yeah. Meagan: It's intimidating. We'll talk a little bit about low fluid. She's got a NICU stay. There are lots of little things. Selah: A little bit of everything. Meagan: You are going to have relations to her story. She is a VBAC after two C-section mama story so if you are a VBAC after two C-sections, listen up. It's going to be amazing.01:04 Review of the Week Meagan: We have a review of the week so we are going to get into that then we are going to turn the time over to you, my love. Selah: Yay. Meagan: This review is– if I can find them. I just lost my reviews. It is from hannahargentina and it was on Apple Podcasts back in 2023 in February so just over a year ago. It says, “I have had a natural birth center birth, then moved out to the country and had a very traumatic C-section. I am now 37 weeks pregnant and back stateside working with an amazing birth team. I am really hoping for a VBAC in a few weeks and I love listening to all of the stories. Hearing different perspectives, and outcomes, and gaining wisdom, I feel so much more confident in my VBAC after listening to this podcast.” Well, it's been just over a year so hannahargentina, if you are still with us, reach out at info@thevbaclink.com and tell us how it went. Selah: Aww, that's awesome. Meagan: I know right, and here we are for you and your baby's birthday is in a couple of days. Selah: I can't even believe it and I got tears in my eyes listening to that review because that was me. That was me listening to every single podcast, your story, all of the stories, and it helped so tremendously. I can't even tell you. To be on today is such an honor because I was so helped by you and your podcast and the community. I could not have done it without you so thank you. Thank you for having me. Meagan: Yes. Thank you and I also want to toot the horn of the community. They are so special. If you guys have not checked it out yet or if you are not on Facebook, I would say create a secret Facebook just to be in that community because the Facebook community is amazing or join us on Instagram. These other Women of Strength truly do provide so much power. Selah: So much power and help and resources. I mean, I was on there every day just looking and posting every single worry and concern. Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot to learn and to do. You need that community. You need that support. Meagan: Absolutely. Well, let's dive into that first story of yours that began this journey to you being here right now. 04:08 Selah's first pregnancySelah: Yes, so the back story is I had my first son in 2018 and he was an IVF baby. We struggled with infertility for four years about, I think. Finally, we did IVF and we were successful on our first try which was great. However, toward the end of my pregnancy, my doctor looked at me and said, “How big are you willing to push out as far as baby goes?” Meagan: Oh. Selah: Yeah. I looked at her and by the way, I considered myself very well-educated. I was not in hindsight. I had read a few birth books but I did not know what I know now thanks to you and the community. I did, by the way, do The VBAC Link Course so I did all of it. Meagan: Oh you did? Selah: Yes. Yes. So I was not educated to the point that I am now, but I thought I was. I looked at her and very confidently said, “12 pounds.” I didn't even flinch. Meagan: I love that. Selah: Her eyes turned really wide and was like, “No, no, no, no, no. You cannot push out a 12-pound baby.” Meagan: Then don't ask me what I'm willing to do here. Selah: Exactly. I was a personal trainer. I was a group fitness instructor. I consider myself very strong so I thought, “I could do that. No problem.” She said, “No. I will not let you do that. This baby is measuring bigger than 10 pounds.” At that point, I think I was just at my 40-week mark so she was like, “He's only going to get bigger. You're not going to be able to deliver this baby vaginally. In fact, I won't even really let you try.” Meagan: Wow. Selah: I know. Meagan: That took a really fast turn from, “Hey, how big are you willing to? Hey, let's offer an induction” to “Hey, I'm not even willing to let you try.” Selah: Exactly. And looking back, I'm pretty shocked at that that I wasn't even offered an induction or anything. In fact, my water– so we scheduled the C-section for three days from then and my water ended up breaking naturally the day before the C-section. I know. I was like, “Oh. I'm going to do this. I can do this. I don't care how big the baby is.” Meagan: Yeah. Selah: Even then, they would not let me try because there was meconium in the water. Meagan: Which isn't a reason for a Cesarean, right? Selah: It is not. Right. Right. That's what I know now, but back then–Meagan: You didn't know. Selah: I didn't know and ironically, I had a doula who said, “Oh, you need to go straight to the hospital.” I know. Meagan: Interesting. Selah: Very interesting. That is also a lesson in really interviewing your doulas, understanding birth more really, and also knowing what the doula's experiences with both C-sections, of course VBACs, and with everything. This doula, looking back, did not have a lot of experience, I don't think, especially with big babies, but in general. I think also she was older and not that there is anything– listen. I am older. But I think she was from a medical mindset where that would be very scary to her, meconium in the water, where now, the doula that I had for my VBAC was much more like, “No. This just means the baby is ready to come out and it means a lot of things.” 07:25 First C-sectionSelah: I rushed to the hospital. They said, “Yes. There is meconium in the water. Yes, you have a very big baby. We're going straight to the C-section. You don't even get to try.” I never even felt a contraction. I was pretty devastated. I had all of these plans for a drug-free birth. I had read The Bradley Method. I had done HypnoBabies. My mom– I'm one of eight kids– had pushed every single one of us out naturally without drugs. I knew I could do it. Do you know what I mean? I just was like, “Wow. This is not happening for me and I'm shocked.” I was very shocked. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. Selah: So we went into the C-section but I also felt like I had no choice at that point. This was definitely–Meagan: You were stuck. Selah: Yeah. “You're going in. That's it.” Everything was just black and white to the medical team and even to my doula frankly. So we went in and my doctor was lovely. I have to say she was very empathetic and she knew I really wanted a natural birth. She was as lovely and empathetic as you can be. She let me play music and set up the room in a way that felt very loving. She let the nurse and everyone take pictures and videos which they are not always supposed to do. So it was as good as it could be. I got to hold him right away. We had the first 12 hours together. But then because he was so big– 10 pounds, 15 ounces, his blood sugar started dropping, and his lungs, because of the C-section, weren't fully developed. You know how they get the practice. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes there is fluid left in the baby's lungs too so they can have a harder time. Selah: Exactly. There was fluid left in the lungs. It's like that sponge where not all of the sponge is there. Meagan: That's a really good analogy. Yes. Selah: That's what they told me which is what happened. When they go through the canal, their lungs get that practice going back and forth. 09:36 NICU Selah: So he went to the NICU after about 12 hours with me and that was a terrible experience for lack of a better word. My heart just goes out to every NICU mama who has had that experience. It's really, really hard. I was only there for five days. I can't imagine where you have been there for months. There are so many reasons why it is hard but for me, it was hard because I was recovering from a C-section. We were breastfeeding but now he's hooked up on wires so that was super hard. I all of a sudden found myself having to bottle feed and pump and now I'm engorged because I'm pumping so much. It just was this crazy cycle. Eventually, like I said, he got out after five days and that was fine. I felt like my healing from that C-section was good because I didn't have any other children to watch. Meagan: Yep. It makes a difference. Selah: It makes a huge difference and I had peace about the C-section. I really did. When he was pulled out of me, my first thought was, “Oh my gosh. He is humongous. He is a giant. He is so chunky. Maybe this was the right thing. Maybe I couldn't have.” His head was huge. Everything was huge. You know, you do worry about pelvic floor damage and shoulder dystocia, all of that stuff. So I did have peace. I thought maybe this was the right decision and it was good to have that closure and that peace. 11:10 Second pregnancySelah: But then flash forward to my second pregnancy which, by the way, was natural. It was not through IVF. I should have known I could get pregnant naturally but I thought it was a fluke after trying so hard. My second pregnancy was in the thick of the pandemic. In fact, at our first prenatal appointment, she was like, “Don't worry. By the time you give birth in August 2020, this will all be over.” Little did we know. Meagan: Nope. That was really thick right there. It's not over. It's trudging. Selah: Yes. Exactly. Going to all of the appointments alone, I was lucky to have my partner in the birthing room and in the OR. Same OB, by the way. Same OB. I didn't know what I didn't know. I just assumed I would have a VBAC. I told her that at the first appointment. “This time, I'm having a VBAC just so you know.” I didn't prepare anything though. I didn't– again, I didn't know what I didn't know. I didn't know about this podcast or the community. I didn't go to a prenatal chiropractor. I didn't even have a doula this time because I thought, “Well, she didn't help me.” Meagan: Honestly, I bet your opinion of that was like, “Meh.” Selah: Yeah.Meagan: And rightfully so. You didn't have the best support there. Selah: Exactly. I did not. I just felt like, “Well, this time, I'm just doing it. I know what to do.” I did the HypnoBabies course for the first time. I didn't even do it again. I thought I was going to do it. Also, it was the thick of the pandemic. I had a two-year-old at home. It was just chaotic. Meagan: It was a lot. Selah: It was a lot. So I do give myself a little slack in that. Meagan: 100%. Please do. Selah: Right? 13:02 Low fluidsSelah: I go along on this pregnancy and he's not measuring extra big this time around but around week 38, I go to my appointment in the morning and it's August, very hot in California. I'm probably dehydrated and a lot of things. I remember going on a big walk the night before. Something my doula now has told me is that in the morning, you're obviously very dehydrated so if you go to your appointment, they may say your fluids are low. I went to the 38-week appointment and she said, “Your fluids are very low. You need to go see a specialist at MFM, maternal-fetal medicine.” Medicine, thank you. Meagan: Mhmm. Maternal-fetal medicine. Selah: Maternal-fetal medicine to go and check your fluid levels. Side note, I went to the same MFM on my first pregnancy to double-check his weight when they said it was a big baby. So I will say that was smart of me to get a second opinion and the MFM on my first pregnancy got the weight right within an ounce so I respected him and thought, “Yeah. I'll go back.” Sure enough, my fluids were low. He agreed with her that I should get the baby out that night and said, “You know, you have a history of big babies. This baby is measuring big already.” He was not as spot on with this baby, but he said around 9 pounds and my second turned out to be 8lb 11 oz. But it's not abnormally big, especially 8lb 11 oz is not that big. Meagan: No, and no talk of induction like, “Oh, your fluids are low. Let's induce.” Selah: No, and that's what I don't understand either. But she did say, I guess I do understand because she did say, “No, I will not induce because of your C-section before. I don't believe in induction.” Meagan: Mmm. So not evidence-based. Selah: Exactly which again, I have learned since then. Meagan: You didn't know. Selah: Yeah. I didn't know. I just said, “Okay.” She just said, “There is way too much risk of uterine rupture.” No numbers, just way too much. “This isn't a good idea.” Meagan: Yeah. Selah: And also she said with the fluids being low, it was too emergent of a situation. We need to get baby out. Meagan: Yeah. It can cause baby stress. It can. Selah: It can, but there was no stress. We did the stress monitor and there was nothing. Meagan: NST? Selah: Yes. There was nothing to be afraid of except for the fluids being low. She did give me an option to go get IV fluids in the hospital, but she did it with a caveat of, “It's probably not going to work.” Again, I felt helpless and stuck. I thought, “Well, I guess this is just my lot. I'm supposed to just have C-sections. I don't get to try again.” Because I didn't know what I didn't know. I didn't know to ask for a low dose of Pitocin. I didn't know to ask for anything or just to give it another try or even to try the IV or drink a bunch of water and come back. I didn't know anything. Meagan: Right. Selah: And I did not have a doula to help me or anything like that. I just went along with it. 16:29 Scheduled Cesarean turned emergentSelah: And in the C-section, this is where everything started to fall– oh, and I also thought, “Well, my previous C-section wasn't so bad.” I had peace about it. I healed very quickly. I was okay. It's going to be fine. Maybe this is just the way it's supposed to be. Sadly, I had so many friends who had two C-sections and people in my life. So I thought, “It's not so bad. These people did it.” Meagan: Right. Selah: Right. I go into it. I'm lying there. All of a sudden, it turns into an emergent situation. The doctor starts yelling/screaming for extra tools. “I need a knife. I need this.” Everybody is frantic. She starts yelling for more team members. “I need the NICU. I need this staff and this person.” Everybody starts running in. There are more people in the room. I hear my husband's voice shaking like he's going to cry saying, “Is everything okay?” Nobody answered for what felt like an eternity. Meagan: I have chills all up and down my body for you right now. So scary.Selah: So crazy. So scary. When I heard his voice, I thought, “One of us is not making it out alive. I don't know what's happening.” It was so scary. Obviously, I still get emotional thinking about it because I didn't know what was happening. Finally, I heard him cry and everything was okay, but they whisked him away immediately. My husband said I did put him on my chest for I think it was a minute, but I barely remember that. That's how traumatic it was. Yes. I do have a picture of me reaching my arms out to him so I know he did land on my chest, but my eyes are filled with tears reaching my arms to him. They whisk him away to the NICU immediately. Same problem with his lungs. He wasn't breathing. They were worse than my first actually. Later, I found out– my doctor came to visit me and she said, “What happened was when she made the incision, his head had moved,” so she didn't want to cut through the placenta from what I understand obviously. So she had to make a bigger incision. She needed special tools. Meagan: Special scar. Is it a special scar or just longer? Selah: It's just longer, yeah. Meagan: Okay, so it's not up. Selah: Exactly. Thank God because I think that would have made it scarier. Meagan: A little bit more difficult sometimes to VBAC the next time too to get support. Selah: Exactly. To get support, exactly. Yeah. That was good at least that she just made it a little longer. But that was why it became so emergent. Same thing. He was in the NICU the whole five days. I remember saying to my husband in the NICU. I looked at him and I said, “We are done. We are not getting pregnant again. I cannot go through this again.” I didn't think I'd ever be able to birth naturally first of all, so I cannot have another C-section. This was way too much. Meagan: Yeah. Selah: And then the healing was awful because I had a two-year-old at home. Everything about this was just not good. I did not want to ever do this again. 21:39 Surprise third pregnancySelah: So flash forward to 2022, two years later, I'm still breastfeeding my two-year-old just at night. I had my period back. I should have known, but I was tracking my ovulation cycle. I was not ovulating. I'm 41 years old and I think, “There's no way. I'm not ovulating. I'm 41. I'm breastfeeding,” but bam. I got pregnant. Surprise, surprise after 20 years of infertility, I'm like, “Why am I fertile Myrtle now?” Meagan: Oh my gosh. Selah: I know. It was crazy. I have a video on my Instagram of my husband's expression finding out. It was utter disbelief. So yes. We find ourselves pregnant again and I thought, “Oh no. What am I going to do? I can't in the operating room again. I can't do it. I will not do it. There has to be another way.” But I crazily called the same provider because I didn't know who else I was going to go to. Meagan: Right. That's who you know. Selah: It's who you know. The receptionist said, “Oh, she's not delivering anymore.” Meagan: Oh. Selah: I know. I got chills all over my body. I knew this was a sign from God. I just knew it that there had to be another way and that I was going to do something different this time. I was not going to be down that same road of a C-section in the OR and I didn't have to go through that again. I reached out to one of my friends I knew who had a VBAC. It was actually a home birth VBAC. It was a HBAC. She said, “You have to start listening to The VBAC Link immediately.” Meagan: Oh, tell her thank you. Selah: Yes. These are all of the resources. She knew this MFM in Long Beach. I'm in Los Angeles so it was about an hour away who also delivers and he is very VBAC supportive. In fact, he does all sorts of births. High risk births he is known for. He was an hour away so that wasn't my top choice, but she sent me a bunch of different ideas for a doula and different doctors. I set about on my journey. I interviewed five different OBs. The first two said, “Absolutely not. We will not do a VBAC after two C-sections and anybody who does is basically a bad doctor. It's too risky.” Meagan: Oh my. That doesn't make you feel good. Selah: I know. But by then, I had been listening to the podcast so I knew. I'm like, “Mmm, no. These are the reasons. This is the rate of risk for uterine rupture. This is the rate of risk for a third C-section. I am doing this and I'm just going to find someone who is going to let me.” So I then interviewed two more I now know as VBAC tolerant, not as VBAC supportive. They had a list of stipulations that I needed to meet in order to do it. Then the fifth one was a doctor that I had known previously. I was not crazy about him. He just had a weird bedside manner for lack of a better word. I just felt like I didn't mesh with him. He was very VBAC supportive, another high-risk pregnancy doctor in Los Angeles who is VERY well-known as someone who delivers triplets naturally, delivers twins naturally. He does breech births. I had been in my friend's breech birth– well, she wasn't breech when she delivered. He flipped baby before she delivered and I was in the room. This was pre-COVID when he was her doctor so I knew him really well. I just did not mesh with him personality-wise. So I chose the other doctor, one of the VBAC tolerant doctors. He was so kind and so lovely, but he did have a list of what I needed to meet. I was showing this list to the community members on Facebook. Everybody was like, “No. He is not a supportive doctor.” He said, “You're older. That affects things,” which there is no evidence of that at all. He said, “You have to go into labor by 40 weeks,” which again, there is no evidence of that. All of these stipulations. The worst part was that he made me go see an MFM that he worked with of his choosing by the way. I coudln't go to that other one that I really respected. I had to go to his MFM and that MFM had to monitor me and look at the uterine wall to see if the wall was okay throughout pregnancy. I know. Meagan: Mmm-mmm. Selah: I had to go to countless appointments. Every week I was in the doctor. I know. That MFM, around 20 weeks said, “Listen. Your uterine wall has a window of I think it was 1 centimeters and 3 millimeters thin. I do not think you are going to be able to do this because there is a window in your uterine wall.” This was at 20 weeks, so I thought, “It's only going to get worse for me from here.” Meagan: That would make sense for you. That would make sense to think that. Selah: I started thinking of other options because I had a sneaky suspicion that this MFM is not going to clear me which my OB said, “If he doesn't clear you, I will not do it.” Meagan: “I won't support it.” Selah: “I won't support it.” Right. 27:33 Changing providersSelah: I started getting a little worried now. Pause to say that I had been going to prenatal chiropractor appointments with an amazing Dr. Berlin in Los Angeles. Everybody knows him. Meagan: We love him so much. Yes. We've had him on the podcast and I actually just was on his podcast which was amazing. It was just so crazy that it was happening. We love Dr. Berlin. Selah: He's the best. He is so great. I mean, he was a doula himself and he obviously is such an amazing chiropractor. He was making sure the baby was in the right position, that my body was open, and all that. I was going every week. I mean, he just was so knowledgeable. He said, “Listen. You might want to give that first doctor you didn't mesh with another consideration. I've been in so many births with him. He is so good at high-risk birth. If you really want this VBAC, you might want to go back to him.” I started rethinking. He was in the back of my mind. Meanwhile, I also had this incredible doula this time around named Johanna, Johanna Story. She said the same thing. She said, “Listen.” She had been in 2500 births in Los Angeles. Meagan: Whoa! Selah: Yes. She is also a licensed midwife so she has delivered babies. By the way, I had considered a home birth for a hot second with Johanna, but my husband was not. He was so supportive of the VBAC that I didn't want to push him. He was the best teammate and not let me, but he was on board with everything I wanted to do. So I just thought, “You know, he's not crazy about the home birth with our two others running around. I get it.” I said, “Let's do the hospital birth with Johanna.” The reason I also liked Johanna is she was going to do– oh my gosh, I am blanking on the word– where they monitor you until you are about to– Meagan: Like Monitrice? Selah: Yes Monitrice. So Johanna, because she is a licensed midwife, she could do monitrice. I felt like that was the best of both worlds. Let's have her monitor me until the last minute then we will go in. As I learned on the podcast, that is the plan. Wait until the last minute so they can't do anything to you. Meagan: Labor as long as you can at home. Selah: Yes. That was the plan. That was why I had Johanna. She also encouraged me to go back to Dr. Brock. Meagan: I was wondering if it was Dr. Brock. Selah: It was Dr. Brock. He is very quirky, his personality. Meagan: We have had him on the podcast as well. Selah: He is wonderful and he just has a quirky sense of humor so that is what it is. I didn't know that at first. I kind of thought, “Who is this guy? What is he saying?” But both Dr. Berlin and Johanna encouraged me to go back to him with that frame of mind. He's just a little quirky. “Just go back and talk to him again.” But I wanted to wait until I went to my last MFM appointment with the MFM that my first OB had. Meagan: The one who said you had a window, that one? Selah: The one I had a window, yes. He said, “This window has only gotten bigger, obviously at 32 weeks. I do not recommend a VBA2C. I cannot recommend it to your OB. Sorry.” I cried in that office thinking maybe there was a miracle and things were going to change. I actually ended up going to see that first MFM who was an hour away for a second opinion. He explained to me, “Yes. There is what you can see a window on an ultrasound.” He said, “First of all, I do not find ultrasounds very accurate. I do not know how big it is and how thick it is. Secondly, even if there is a window, there is absolutely no evidence of a correlation between that and a rupture. There's no evidence.” Meagan: Yeah. They can't really do the measuring thing and tell you that you are going to rupture or not. Selah: That's what he said. He said, “I really think you're okay to try. You will know in the birth and your doctor should know if something is going wrong and your doula too.” He said, “I really think you should try and you need to try.” Oh, the other cool thing he did– I really love him. Dr. Shivera in Long Beach if anyone is local. He is really wonderful and does a ton of high-risk birth. I just didn't want to go that far so that was my thing with that. But he said, “I looked at what happened in the operating room with your second C-section, and exactly what you said before, it is not a special scar.” He looked at all of the details. It really made me feel that there was nothing wrong with that birth. Meagan: Or abnormality, yeah. Selah: No abnormality, yeah. He was like, “I really think you are okay to try.” That was really reassuring too. I cried with happiness. I cried everywhere. Meagan: Yeah. Lots of emotions. Selah: Lots of emotion. Then at 32 weeks, I went back to my first OB and he had gotten the results from that MFM and sure enough said, “I cannot support a VBA2C.” There, it was very interesting. I did cry there too but I felt this weird sense of shame like I should not have gotten pregnant. I should not be in this position because they made me feel like you are risking too much. You are risking your baby's life. You are risking your life. Why do you want this so much? On the other side, I thought, “I can't go into the operating room. I can't do it emotionally or psychologically. I just can't. Put me out then because I won't be able to be there.” That was where this weird shame came in like, “Why did I even get pregnant?” I even said it out loud to my husband then I even felt shame about that. We had this miracle baby. I couldn't believe it. But there were all of these weird emotions and things that were associated with that second C-section in particular. I went back to Dr. Berlin. I remember crying in his office too and he was just saying, “Go to Dr. Brock. Go to Dr. Brock,” and Johanna too. Finally, I made an appointment. I think it was at 34 weeks when I saw Dr. Brock. He said, “You've never tried to labor. You've never felt a contraction. You can do this. I think you can do this and the baby is in the perfect position. He is not measuring big.” I also loved this. He did the fundal measurement. Meagan: Fundal measurement is the whole from the pubic bone-up thing. Selah: It almost felt like a midwife technique to measure the weight and everything, not the ultrasound. I remember being so scared every time I went into the ultrasound, how big is he going to be? Yeah, but he didn't even want to talk about weight. He said to me, “Well, how big do you think this baby is?” I said, “Uh, 8 pounds. He feels normal to me. I don't know.” He said, “So then he will be.” He just was very calm and the other huge thing he did which I forgot to mention. The first OB with this MFM changed my due date because they said the baby was measuring early so they changed it to March 17th but according to my cycle, he was due March 31st. Meagan: That's a difference. Selah: It's a huge difference. 31st. The last day of the month. Meagan: The last day, uh-huh. Selah: The last day. That is a huge difference. So when I went to Dr. Brock, he said, “No. This baby is due according to your cycle, March 30th or March 31st. You don't have anything to worry about. You are measuring completely on time. Go on.” Now, in hindsight, he was born at 40 weeks and 3 days. So yeah, I guess it was March 30th. He was born at 40 weeks and 3 days. If it had been according to the first due date, there is no way the OB would have let me keep going. I mean, that was 10 days after. Thank God Dr. Brock changed my due date and was completely relaxed about everything. I never felt stressed. I never felt any anxiety that I felt going to the appointments from the first OB. Meagan: That's good. Selah: He was quirky, but now I saw him in a completely different light. I saw him as somebody who would support me and let me do my thing. 36:33 Going into laborSelah: Sure enough, going into the labor, I felt like the night of March 26th, there was bloody show at around 10:00 PM. I texted my doula and she said, “It could be any minute or it could be days still so just hang tight. Relax. Go to bed. Get some sleep.” I went to bed and I woke up with the wetness. It wasn't a huge gush like the first one. It was just a little bit of wet. Meagan: Trickle? Selah: Trickle, yes. I wasn't sure. My doula said it could be just a little bit of leakage or it could have been my water breaking. Let's just wait and see. Sure enough, a couple of hours later, I started feeling contractions and I was so excited. I was just happy. It was so crazy because obviously, most people would be like, “Ow, this hurts,” and I was just like, “Yes.” Meagan: Cheering them on, yes. Well, you had never experienced them before. Selah: Exactly. Exactly. I texted my mom. She was so excited. I just was thinking the whole time, “I can't believe this is finally happening.” Again, we didn't know that my water had broken for sure so we just wanted to sort of wait before we told the doctor because he didn't say, “Oh, there is a 24-hour clock once your water breaks.” He didn't say that at all, but we were concerned if we told the hospital– whatever. We just wanted to wait and see how labor progressed. The contractions did start progressing. It was about– I don't know– five or six hours at home and they started getting really fast and strong every four to five minutes. Yeah. I was like, “Oh, this is happening. This is happening fast. I may even have this baby at home,” which is laughable now looking back.I went in the shower. She encouraged me to go into the shower and try to rest. I couldn't because I was so excited then my kids woke up around 6:00 AM. My doula got there around 5:00 AM and the contractions again were coming super strong and hard. She was helping me. She was massaging me, but because they were coming so frequently, they started speeding up to every 2-3 minutes, I thought, “We've got to get to the hospital.” I really actually did think, “Maybe this baby is actually going to fly out.” This is crazy. I might have an accidental home birth which is the goal, right? That's what everybody wants. Meagan: To a lot of people, it's a dream, yes. Selah: It was. It was actually my dream. “Maybe it will just fly out. It will be fine.” We go. My doula, to give her credit, was like, “I still think you should stay home. You're just probably really excited.” I was scared too, I think, deep down. I said, “Oh no. I don't know. We should go to the doctor.” 39:20 Going to the hospitalSelah: We went to the hospital. We had called the doctor. He said, “When did your water break?” I said, “I don't know. It might have been this morning.” I kind of pushed it a little because I really wasn't sure. We got to the hospital and at that point, I had labored about 10 hours, but in the triage, a resident checked me and said I was only at a 1 and it had been 10 hours. This is the lesson to everybody. Please try to labor at home longer. I should have stayed at home longer. Meagan: Well and also numbers. We look at 2-3 minutes apart and we're like, “They're 2-3 minutes apart. They're 2-3 numbers apart.” But let's look at the length and let's look at that strength. How is coping? Are they so intense that you can't even focus on what is going on in the space and it takes you a minute to get back into that moment or is it like, “Whoa, this is really, really hard,” and you're talking through it, but then they're gone.Selah: That's right. Yes. I should have listened to my doula because I feel like it's exactly what you just described. I could have labored at home longer as we will see because I ended up laboring. Selah: I'll tell you the middle of what happened in between but it ended up being 48 hours total of being in labor. It was way too early to go to the hospital. The reason why that was a problem too is because they hooked me up to the monitor because it was a VBAC and because of all of the reasons they do. We insisted on a wireless monitor but they couldn't get a good connection so I ended up having to walk around with this wire which was not easy and I could only go so far. I feel like if I had labored at home and been able to move and do stretches or whatever more freely, it would have been way better to do that. That was kind of a bummer. Meagan: Yeah. Selah: But that still wasn't enough to deter me. I stayed very calm. I listened to worship music for the entire 48 hours and also HypnoBabies. I would say my mantras over and over. I was literally singing and praising God for each contraction. It was crazy. I would feel a contraction come on and I would thank God for it because I knew this was just getting me closer. To be in that state of gratitude and have that openness and open heart and be just thankful for it after all of this time and all of these years and wishes and dreams and desires of my heart to experience this– it was incredible– I mean, incredible to have that feeling. I honestly felt no pain. I know that sounds crazy because it was so long. Meagan: It doesn't. Selah: It was the most intense spiritual, incredible connection to God I've ever felt. I don't know. It was amazing. Meagan: Amazing, yeah. Selah: The doctor and the nurses were all encouraging me to get a catheter for an epidural to put in and I kept pushing it off. I didn't want it. I said, “I'm not going to need it. I don't want it.” This isn't to say there is any shame at all in having an epidural.Meagan: You just didn't want it. Selah: I didn't want it. I researched with you and knowing that it could cause more of a chance for a C-section, I just didn't want it. I said, “I'm not going to do it.” I put it off, put it off, put it off.I should say this was very interesting. The contractions were happening all day that Sunday 2-4 minutes apart. They felt very intense like they were building up, but again, it wasn't super painful and my doula kept having me switch positions. She and my husband were incredible with non-stop massages and encouraging words and putting me in positions to really help me. That is another reason I didn't feel the pain that maybe another person might. They really, really helped. But it was after certainly bedtime. I think it was after 24 hours and my doctor was like, “Okay.” Oh, I should say the contractions slowed down from being 2-4 minutes apart to happening 5-7, even 10 minutes apart. They really slowed down. At that point, after 24 hours, I was at a– I think, I want to say…actually let me look here really quick. Okay, so day turned into night around 8:00 PM that first day. I had dilated to a 4 and I was fully effaced at 0 station. I really thought I was going to keep dilating and I would meet my baby by the end of that night, that first night but soon, it got into I think about 24 hours of labor and that's when the contractions started to slow down to 5-7 minutes. The doctor wanted to start me on Pitocin. Yeah, it was the 24-hour mark at 2:00 AM to progress more. I did not want Pitocin because of everything I had learned. I just thought, “There's no way. This is going to lead to another C-section. I don't want it.” He promised me. He said, “Let me start you very low. We're just going to try to get these contractions going a little bit faster.” 44:54 PitocinSelah: So we started the very lowest dose. They stayed 5-10 minutes apart, but I did get to a 6 that way. I did not feel any pain on the Pitocin which I was very scared of. I know. So he kept upping it and soon, I was at the max level of Pitocin. I did not feel a difference. My contractions stayed 5-10 minutes apart. The good thing about that was between those long contraction breaks, I would literally fall asleep and everybody in the room was laughing because they were like, “She's snoring.” There was a running joke in my friend circle and family that I can sleep through anything and I'm a very deep sleeper so this is no surprise to them. My husband was laughing. I mean, I was sound asleep and then I would feel a contraction, wake up, and start singing out loud. It was hilarious. There were various positions that were better for me. Being on the toilet was definitely helpful. Being in almost like a child's pose position, but the best of all was side-lying with the ball in between. That really seemed to help open me up and it was also great because then after the contraction was over, I would fall asleep from that side-lying. That's how that kept working with the sleep breaks. Selah: But that being said, the Pitocin did not seem like it was doing anything. That's why he kept upping it. We are now at about 36 hours of labor. I was at a 6. So I was getting a little worried that he wasn't going to let me keep going, but he did. He kept letting me go and then the one thing he did insist on though, at about 4:30 on day two was that I get that catheter for the epidural in my back.That was the only thing that ended up causing pain. I don't know if it's where they placed it. I don't know what, but all of a sudden, I started vomiting from that area. It was really bad. That catheter hurt so bad and there was nothing they could do. There was no epidural in there. I didn't want the epidural. I didn't need it for the contractions. It was just that area. They put some numbing cream on it. That kind of helped, but that is what really hurt. I don't know if it was where the baby was. As he started dropping more, the pain lessened in that area, but that catheter really hurt. Everybody on the community page said not to get it which is why I pushed hard about not getting it. Now, I feel like they were right because again, I understand why people do get it just in case. My doctor said, “Have your seatbelt on. If you go to a C-section, we need that so you do not have to be put under.” You know what I mean?But I should have said in retrospect, “You know what? If go to a C-section, I want to be put under.” Meagan: Well, and the thing is that it still has to be dosed and that still takes time so–Selah: Right. Meagan: I don't know. Maybe, I guess it's a little faster but it still has to be dosed. Selah: It still has to be dosed. In retrospect, I don't understand why he insisted on that so much, but I really appreciated him so much at that moment and all he had done to support me that I thought, “This is the one thing he is insisting on. I'm going to go with it.” I said yes, but again, I wish I hadn't. It really, really, really hurt. 48:35 The final hoursSelah: The contractions were still 5-7 minutes apart, but all of a sudden, around 5:30 PM– this is on day two, and remember, everything had started around 2:00 AM the night before. So now, we're almost to 48 hours. At 5:30 PM on day two during one of my little cat naps, I all of a sudden woke up with this involuntary urge to push. I just kept pushing with each contraction. All sorts of stuff was coming out of my body. It was insane like, “What is happening?” Everyone in the room was like, “Oh my gosh. This baby is coming. This is awesome.” Imagine my surprise when the resident doctor came in and checked me and said I was only at an 8 and station +1. Meagan: What? Selah: I burst into tears. I think that was the moment I got really discouraged. Everyone said on the podcast and in the community that means baby is about to be born. You are getting close. Meagan: When you start doubting like that, yeah. Selah: Exactly. Exactly, but I just thought, “There is no way. How could I only be an 8? I don't know how much longer I can do this. It's almost 48 hours.” I heard myself saying this out loud. My doula reminded me. She was like, “These are just estimates. The residents want to estimate on the lower side because they don't want to fool the doctor and have him come in and be like, ‘Why did you say she was complete?' It would not be good.” Meagan: That happens. Just to let you know, that really actually does happen. I've seen it with my own eyes as a doula. Selah: Right? They err on the side that benefits them essentially. Meagan: They fluff it in the backward way. Selah: Yeah. Yes. Meagan: They fluff it like, “Oh, you're 9 centimeters,” when you're really 8. It's like you are 8 centimeters and they are saying you are 6 centimeters. They do this weird thing and it's like magical progression. Selah: Exactly. My doula kept reminding me of that even when we first got there and they said I was a 1. She said, “No. I think you are a 3 or a 4.” So yeah. Exactly. But I was so discouraged. I do feel like another side note God gave me the nurses at the right point that I needed. They were progressively more supportive. The first nurse I started off with was super intense. She, by the way, was insisting on a– is it called a UEP? A uterine– Meagan: IUPC. Intrauterine pressure catheter. Selah: Yes. That's right. IPCP. Meagan: IUPC. Yep. Selah: IUPC. There you go. She kept insisting on that. My doctor wanted that too, but he gave up basically because I said, “Nope. I'm not getting that. No.” I believe there is a small, small chance of rupture from that, right?Meagan: Well, it causes infection. It goes up into the body so anytime we do any of that, it can increase the chances of things like Cesarean. Selah: Right, so I thought, “I've come this far. I'm not doing that. You're monitoring me with the monitor. I'm not doing this other catheter.” By the way, I was in labor posting that on the community page and people were like, “Do not do that. This is why.” So again, this community is so helpful. So all that to say, the first nurse was very intense. The second one was fine, but the third one that I had during that moment– her name was Shamika. I will never forget. She said, “You are not giving up now. I have seen you. I have seen you singing. I have heard you singing. I have seen you thanking God during these contractions. I've seen you laboring with joy. You are doing this. Do not give up.” I am telling you, I felt like God put her in my labor at that moment because I needed that. My husband and my doula, Johanna, were saying, “You're not giving up now. You've come this far. You've got this.” And Johanna reminded me again, “This is just an estimate.” So sure enough, I was there. I really thought, I don't know, “Is it going to happen in another four hours like, 5:30?” Around 8:30 at night, they checked me again and I was complete. The doctor gets called in and he says, “All right. Time to push.” Johanna had warned me about this. She said, “Dr. Brock really likes women to push out on their back.” I know there's a lot of stuff about that.Meagan: Controversy. Selah: Yeah, controversy. “So I just want to warn you that he's going to have you on your back. You're going to be in the stirrups but if it doesn't work, we can go from there. But let's start in that position.” I'm so glad she prepped me because I have heard a lot in the VBAC communities that you shouldn't push on your back and all of that stuff. But for me, I actually did like on my back because he had me hold these bars. I don't know if that's normal. Meagan: Yeah. I've seen them. Yeah.Selah: I'm a workout junkie, so for me, it felt very strong to pull on these bars with my upper body muscles and then push with my legs. It felt doable in other words, but I didn't realize how much this is true which is the two steps forward, one step back. Meagan: 100%. Selah: That is so frustrating. I didn't know. I know I had heard it but I didn't realize how true it was. That was very frustrating to see his head come out and then go back in. But again, that's his little lungs getting more developed and everything. I did have a mirror which really helped to see and it felt like again, it was like you were going to the bathroom. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. Selah: I feel like more people need to know that that it really is what it feels like. You just have to push it out. Meagan: The biggest poop you'll ever take. That's what I say. Selah: Yes. It's so true. It really is. I was just pushing and pushing. We are nearing the 48-hour mark. I was pushing for three hours. Meagan: Wow. Selah: Yes. It was close to three hours. Basically, the contractions stayed 5-7 minutes apart. I stayed resting in between. I was on the max dose of Pitocin. Dr. Brock was getting a little frustrated so he said, “Listen. You have less than an inch to go to get this baby out. He is going to come out. Don't worry. He's going to come out, but I really would like to use the vacuum to get him out all of the way.” I thought that was great because a lot of, I've heard, VBAC doctors will not use the vacuum because it's a little bit risky with cranial damage so I was actually grateful and obviously tired so I was like, “Yes. Do whatever it takes. Get this baby out.” “But,” he said, “I want to fill your catheter with an epidural.” At that point, now, I should say I had this prayer list and every single thing had been met from the nurses to not using drugs. I did not want the epidural. By the way, not only did I not want the risk of a C-section with the epidural. The other reason was that I had been so drugged with my other two C-sections that like I said, I barely remember holding the baby on my chest. I was so woozy and out of it. I didn't want that again. But he said, “I want to put some push epidural in so that you won't feel the vacuum and that he'll come out.” I was so tired. My fight was so done that I felt like I had to give in and let him do this the way he wanted to and if that meant having a push epidural, then I'd do it. I'll do the push epidural. 56:47 A crack in the catheterSelah: In comes the anesthesiologist. She looks at the catheter that's in my back and says, “There is a crack in the cap of the catheter.” Meagan: No!Selah: “We can't do it. We can't put an epidural here. There is a tiny crack. Bacteria could get in, whatever. We can't do it.” Dr. Brock was like, “Are you serious? This is insane.” I said, “Good because I didn't want it anyway.” My doula–Meagan: You're like, “Let's just get this baby out.” Selah: Exactly. I said, “It's fine. Listen. I've come this far. I'm sure it's not going to hurt that much.” He said, “Are you sure? Because also thought it would be good to do any sewing up after from any tears.” I said, “Yes. Just do it. I don't need it. It's fine.” By the way, there's no choice. You can't put it in. She said no. The anesthesiologist was like, “Nope. I'm out.” So I pushed and he said, “All right. You're going to feel a little pressure. I'm going to push on your stomach. You're going to push at the same time. I'm going to vacuum and he'll come out.” I said, “Okay, let's do this.” Sure enough, it felt almost like the C-section when they pushed on your uterus. Yeah, a little bit. But it wasn't painful. It was just pressure. It was just a very weird feeling actually of the vacuum. The sewing up of the tear– I had a second-degree tear which isn't that bad considering he was 9 pounds. Meagan: Very standard. Selah: Very standard. He was 9 pounds, 5 ounces– big baby. He also had a big head so that was pretty good actually that I only tore that much. It didn't even hurt when he sewed me up at all. It felt a little weird, but it didn't hurt and it was amazing. I couldn't believe it, the feeling that he came out of my body that way! He went right on my chest and he was crying so loud. He was so healthy. The best part of all, I mean, I was just so overwhelmed and so happy. I didn't even really cry. I was just happy. I was just joyful. The best part of all, though, he didn't have to go to the NICU at all. Meagan: Yes. Selah: He literally laid down by my side the whole night. We were never separated. I breastfed all night and by the way, you know they come in and they want to make sure he's in his bassinet. I'm like, “Nope.” I kept him right by me. That might be a little controversial, but I couldn't let go. I really couldn't let go because this was so mind-blowing that he could be there and that all of my fears, all of my worries, all of my hard work, all of that was over. All of the appointments, all of the wondering, I felt like, “I did it. God did it. We did it.” Meagan: You did it. Selah: It was incredible. Then bringing him home and knowing that there was no worry about his breathing, about his blood sugar, and that so far, my other two have asthma which is so sad. I don't know if it's related to the C-sections because my husband also had asthma so it could not be. Meagan: It can be thought. Selah: It can be, yeah. This one doesn't have asthma so far. No allergies. The other two have allergies. It's crazy the things that I've seen, but most of all, my healing was night and day. I know that's not always normal for a VBAC or a vaginal birth. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. Selah: But I personally was up and about on day two. I mean, night and day, no problems. Of course, I was a little sore. It felt like I had just run a marathon, but nothing. And of course, now, I pee a little when I sneeze. Meagan: So pelvic floor therapy will help. Selah: Pelvic floor which I need to do. And that also happens, by the way, with C-sections. I also had that with my C-sections but I feel like all of it was 1000% worth it. Everybody said it would be and they were right. Everybody who I had read the stories or heard the stories about. It was so worth it. 1:00:00 The best feelingSelah: The feeling of having him come out that way but also being able to hold him and be with him and not have surgery. I mean, it was just night and day and such an incredible feeling of empowerment and for me, my faith, witnessing God do what I thought was impossible and what I felt like was natural. It was just an incredible experience knowing that everything was okay. The uterine wall window didn't happen. Meagan: Oh yes. Yes. Selah: None of those fears happened. Everything was okay and he was perfect. So perfect and beautiful and such a surprise baby to happen that way. Meagan: I am so happy for you. Selah: I feel like it was so redemptive. Meagan: Yes and it should have been. I'm so proud of you for going through the motions, doing the research, recognizing what's right, and what's not right, making the change, embracing the change, and then also still pushing forward through that whole birth. That's amazing. Such a long birth. Such a beautiful birth. Selah: Such a long birth. Meagan: I'm so glad you had the support. It was and I'm just so happy for you and that you are sharing this story today. Selah: Thank you. Well, and I will say like you said, the support is so– my doula stayed the entire 48 hours. Meagan: Wow. Selah: She did not eat. She did not sleep. She did not leave. She was amazing. Then, my husband– I feel like if your partner is not 100% on board, that you really need that. He was 1000% on board and he did not sleep, eat, or do anything either. Meagan: Yeah. Selah: I really am thankful for that and thankful for this community and The VBAC Link podcast and everything. It was really what was the driving force. I can't believe I did it. I really can't and I love helping other women now too. It's just such a blessing. Meagan: Full circle. Yes. It's the full circle. Oh, well thank you again so much. Selah: Thank you for having me. It was such an honor. It really was. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Kerry Tuschhoff Founder of Hypnobabies. Hypnobirthing Classes & Courses! That helps women from 18 to 45 who want a more joyful pregnancy and birth, and teaches them to use the power of their own minds to achieve that!Here's where to find more:https://www.hypnobabies.comwww.Facebook.com/Hypnobabieshttps://hypnobabieslinks.com/Hypno-YouTube https://www.tiktok.com/@hypnobabiesofficial_https://www.instagram.com/hypnobabiesofficial_https://www.pinterest.com/hypnobabieshttps://www.linkedin.com/in/hypnobabies___________________________________________________________Welcome to The Unforget Yourself Show where we use the power of woo and the proof of science to help you identify your blind spots, and get over your own bullshit so that you can do the fucking thing you ACTUALLY want to do!We're Mark and Katie, the founders of Unforget Yourself and the creators of the Unforget Yourself System and on this podcast, we're here to share REAL conversations about what goes on inside the heart and minds of those brave and crazy enough to start their own business. From the accidental entrepreneur to the laser-focused CEO, we find out how they got to where they are today, not by hearing the go-to story of their success, but talking about how we all have our own BS to deal with and it's through facing ourselves that we find a way to do the fucking thing.Along the way, we hope to show you that YOU are the most important asset in your business (and your life - duh!). Being a business owner is tough! With vulnerability and humor, we get to the real story behind their success and show you that you're not alone._____________________Find all our links to all the things like the socials, how to work with us and how to apply to be on the podcast here: https://linktr.ee/unforgetyourself

Here we have another magical home birth story for you. Maria reached out to us after listening to the show and felt inspired to share her experience of home birth.  We love stories like these - full of candor, vulnerability and humor. Maria has the experience and perspective of giving birth in a birthing center as well as at home, so we were really excited to sit down and pick her brain about it all. We learn about the birthing center experience and why Maria was certain on the drive home with her new daughter that she'd never do it like that again. We also hear about the process of home birth, and what can happen when your waters break and you don't go into labor that day...or even the next day! Birth was such a transformational experience for Maria that it ignited a passion that would shift her career. She became a doula and now owns a business dedicated to birth work which includes placenta encapsulation and childbirth education. Links From The Episode: Maria's website ThriveBirth.org - http://www.thrivebirth.org/ Hypnobabies - https://www.hypnobabies.com/ Offers From Our Awesome Partners: Needed: https://bit.ly/2DuMBxP - use code DIAH to get 20% off your order Splash Blanket: https://bit.ly/3JPe1g0 - use code DIAH for 10% off your order Esembly: https://bit.ly/3eanCSz - use code DIH20 to get 20% off your order More From Doing It At Home: Send us your birth story: https://bit.ly/3jOjCKl Doing It At Home book on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3vJcPmU DIAH Website: https://www.diahpodcast.com/ DIAH Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doingitathome/ DIAH YouTube: https://bit.ly/3pzuzQC DIAH Merch: www.diahpodcast.com/merch Give Back to DIAH: https://bit.ly/3qgm4r9 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, we delve into holistic approaches for childbirth preparation, exploring six key areas. The first emphasizes self-discovery, encouraging listeners to peel back layers and gain confidence in their choices. Next, we focus on the power of mindset during pregnancy and motherhood, considering both positive and negative influences. Fueling your body takes center stage in the third segment, stressing the importance of nutrition to connect with your baby. The fourth segment explores beneficial movements for labor, drawing parallels to learning yoga for familiarity. Moving on, we discuss the art of planning and preferences, going beyond a birth plan to make thoughtful decisions. Finally, we tackle the challenge of resting while awaiting childbirth, offering relaxation techniques. Don't miss out on our comprehensive Birth Preparation Workbook covering these topics talked about in the episode. Join us on this journey to holistic childbirth preparation! Hypnobabies is a great tool to help you use hypnosis in preparing for childbirth. Use the code MOTHERHOOD20 to receive 20% off today! Truly fuel your body with FOND Bone Broth a verified regenerative by land to market company dedicated to serving you rich and handcrafted items. Use code ENTERINGMOTHERHOOD for 10% off your first order. Looking to become a doula yourself and get into birthwork? Check out the Online Doula Training Program to get started on your path today. Become certified through Postpartum University and help clients learn more about how to nourish their bodies in the postpartum period. Connect more with Entering Motherhood: Instagram: entering_motherhood Facebook: EnteringMotherhood Services: Birth and Postpartum Services Email: enteringmotherhood@gmail.com >> First Trimester Nutrition Guide >> #1 FREE Postpartum Download Want a baby carrier you can snuggle your baby tight in? Check out LoveHeld for their handwoven ring sling carrier you'll be sure to love. In need of nursing tops and postpartum items? Kindred Bravely is the place to shop for all of your attire needs and more. 

Welcome to MOJO: The Meaning of Life and Business. In this episode, host Jennifer Glass explores the fascinating world of hypnosis with guest Kerry Tuschhoff, a childbirth educator and hypnotherapist. Join us as they delve into the practical use of hypnosis for pain and anxiety management, particularly during labor and delivery. Kerry shares her personal journey, from a traumatic childbirth experience to developing Hypnobabies, a program that incorporates hypnosis and hypnoanesthesia for childbirth. Discover the power of hypnosis, the importance of reaching the subconscious mind, and how it can be used for healing, overcoming phobias, and creating a positive childbirth experience. Tune in as we uncover the transformative potential of hypnosis in this thought-provoking episode. Keywords: Hypnosis, pain management, anxiety, labor and delivery, childbirth educator, hypnotherapist, therapeutic hypnosis, stage hypnosis, subconscious, waking hypnosis, self-hypnosis, control, misconceptions, subconscious behaviors, hypnoanesthesia, PTSD, hypnobabies, childbirth education, hypnosis tracks, affirmations, birth plan, success, financial stability, subconscious mind, retraining, healing, phobias, relaxation, post-hypnotic suggestions, trauma, labor experience About my guest: Kerry Tuschhoff is the founder and director of Hypnobabies Hypnobirthing, Kerry has loved being a childbirth educator, doula, speaker and hypnotherapist for over 30 years. Teaching families to trust in their minds, bodies, babies, and the process of childbirth is her passion, and hearing healing birth stories is her joy! Educating people who need change and healing, about the life-altering benefits of hypnosis for many physical and emotional issues is also paramount to Kerry. Connect with Kerry on Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Pinterest, and on the web at https://www.hypnobabies.com Key topics: Primary Topic: Introduction to Hypnosis and its Practical Use - Host introduces the topic of therapeutic hypnosis - Kerry Tuschhoff joins the show to discuss hypnosis and its practical use - Explanation of the difference between therapeutic and stage hypnosis - All hypnosis is self-hypnosis and individuals are always in control - Addressing common misconceptions about hypnosis - Variability in people's experiences with hypnosis - Subconscious behaviors and waking hypnosis Primary Topic: Application of Hypnosis in Pain Management - How hypnosis can help with pain management - Differentiation from medicinal help - Effectiveness and benefits of hypnosis for the body - Kerry Tuschhoff's traumatic birth experience and development of Hypnobabies - Incorporating hypnosis and hypnoanesthesia for childbirth in Hypnobabies Primary Topic: Hypnobabies Program Details - Kerry Tuschhoff's journey from traumatic birth to creating Hypnobabies - Details of the 6-week program and maintenance period - Listening to hypnosis tracks daily from 30 weeks of pregnancy - Inclusion of affirmations and hypnosis tracks in the program - The educational aspect of the program on childbirth interventions and birth plan creation Primary Topic: Personal and Business Success - Kerry's advice to her younger self - Her definition of success - Importance of reaching the subconscious mind for successful outcomes - Jennifer Glass emphasizes the importance of open-mindedness and willingness to accept feedback in business and life Primary Topic: How Hypnosis is Used for Childbirth and Beyond - Kerry Tuschhoff's expertise in hypnosis for childbirth - Importance of reaching the subconscious mind for beneficial effects - Use of hypnosis to relax the body and mind to access the subconscious - Application of post-hypnotic suggestions for positive changes in the subconscious

Get 20% off the online Hypnobabies store using code: Ebbandflow20 at the following affiliate link: https://hypnobabieslinks.com/3VzyyuzIn today's episodes, we talk to Founder and Director of Hypnobabies Hypnobirthing Childbirth Education, Kerry Tuschhoff. She has loved being a childbirth educator, doula, speaker, and hypnotherapist for over 30 years. Teaching families to trust in their minds, bodies, babies, and the process of childbirth is her passion, and hearing healing birth stories is her joy! Educating people who need change and healing about the life-altering benefits of therapeutic hypnosis for many physical, emotional, and financial issues is also paramount to Kerry.Some of the topics we go into are: What hypnosis for childbirth is (and what it's not).How Hypnobabies can help women reduce their fear and anxiety surrounding birth.Why Hypnobabies is beneficial for women wanting to have a VBAC....and much more!Support the showDownload the First 3 Steps to VBAC Guide: https://www.thehannahgill.com/firststepsDownload the Doula VBAC and Repeat Cesarean Guide: https://www.thehannahgill.com/newdoulatips

Get 20% off the online Hypnobabies store using code: Ebbandflow20 at the following affiliate link: https://hypnobabieslinks.com/3VzyyuzIn today's episodes, we talk to Founder and Director of Hypnobabies Hypnobirthing Childbirth Education, Kerry Tuschhoff. She has loved being a childbirth educator, doula, speaker, and hypnotherapist for over 30 years. Teaching families to trust in their minds, bodies, babies, and the process of childbirth is her passion, and hearing healing birth stories is her joy! Educating people who need change and healing about the life-altering benefits of therapeutic hypnosis for many physical, emotional, and financial issues is also paramount to Kerry.Some of the topics we go into are: What hypnosis for childbirth is (and what it's not).How Hypnobabies can help women reduce their fear and anxiety surrounding birth.Why Hypnobabies is beneficial for women wanting to have a VBAC....and much more!Support the showDownload the First 3 Steps to VBAC Guide: https://www.thehannahgill.com/firststepsDownload the Doula VBAC and Repeat Cesarean Guide: https://www.thehannahgill.com/newdoulatips

Content Warning: postpartum hemorrhage, GBS Positive, antibiotics for GBS,   On this episode of the EBB podcast, I talk with Katrina Hull, a graduate of the EBB childbirth class about her positive hospital water birth story.   Katrina Hull is a former high school math and engineering teacher with over a decade of experience in the classroom. Her passion for education and entrepreneurship has led her to her current role as coordinating producer at PBS NewsHour Classroom where she develops lesson materials and resources for integrating invention education into classrooms across the country.   Katrina shares her experiences taking the EBB childbirth class and discusses in depth the education and work she put into preparing for her desired hospital water birth. In addition to finding her “Golden Ticket” birth team and desired location, she shares the details of her amazing and empowering birth story, despite having a few complications, including finding out she was Group B Strep Positive and handling a postpartum hemorrhage.   Resources: Learn more about Marnellie Bishop's Evidence Based Birth® Childbirth Class here Learn more about the GentleBirth Pregnancy app here Read more about Rebecca's experience with Hypnobabies in Babies are Not Pizza's Learn more about the Evidence on Hypnosis for Pain Management here Learn more about the Evidence on water immersion for Pain Management here Learn about the research evidence on combining hypnosis and water immersion for pain: Madden, K., Middleton, P., Cyna, A. M., et al. (2016). Hypnosis for pain management during labour and childbirth. Cochrane Database Syst Rev(5), CD009356. Listen to Evidence Based Birth Podcasts: EBB 131: Evidence on: Pitocin During the 3rd Stage of Labor or read the Signature Article here https://evidencebasedbirth.com/evidence-on-pitocin-during-the-third-stage-of-labor/ EBB 267: Debunking Myths about Fundal Massage with Barbie Christianson, RN   Learn more about joining our Pro Membership for birth workers here, to take take our class on emergency management of PPH

The subconscious mind is a powerful yet often overlooked force in the journey of childbirth, where anticipation and apprehension frequently intertwine. It is a realm of immense power, capable of shaping our experiences, emotions, and outcomes in ways we may not fully comprehend. Today, we embark on an adventure into uncharted territory, guided by the wisdom of Kerry Tuschhoff, a pioneer in childbirth education and hypnotherapy. Join your host, Cindy Watson, as she explores the wisdom of Kerry Tuschhoff, They will be talking about Negotiating Your Subconscious For a Better Birthing Experience and More.  Kerry Tuschhoff is a seasoned expert with over three decades of experience, Discover how her insights can help pave the way for a more empowered, fulfilling, and joyous pregnancy and birth experience. She is also the Founder and Director of Hypnobabies Hypnobirthing Childbirth Education. So, welcome to the journey of making pregnancy and birth better.   Key takeaways:   What is hypno-therapy and how do you negotiate with your subconscious? Advice and tips so you can negotiate with your mindset and get more of what you want in life Tips on how to calm your nervous system The role emotion plays in hypnotherapy The steps to prepare for difficult negotiations And many more!   Get to know more about Kerry: Website: https://www.hypnobabies.com/ Podcast: https://www.hypnobabies.com/hypnobabies-podcasts/   Follow her on: www.Facebook.com/Hypnobabies https://hypnobabieslinks.com/Hypno-YouTube www.Twitter.com/Hypnobabies https://www.instagram.com/hypnobabiesofficial_/ https://www.pinterest.com/hypnobabies/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/hypnobabies   If you're looking to up-level your negotiation skills, I have everything from online to group to my signature one-on-one mastermind & VIP experiences available to help you better leverage your innate power to get more of what you want and deserve in life.   Check out our website at www.artoffemininenegotiation.com if that sounds interesting to you. Get Cindy's book here: Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Art-Feminine-Negotiation-Boardroom-Bedroom-ebook/dp/B0B8KPCYZP?inf_contact_key=94d07c699eea186d2adfbddfef6fb9e2&inf_contact_key=013613337189d4d12be8d2bca3c26821680f8914173f9191b1c0223e68310bb1 EBook https://www.amazon.com/Art-Feminine-Negotiation-Boardroom-Bedroom-ebook/dp/B0B8KPCYZP?inf_contact_key=94d07c699eea186d2adfbddfef6fb9e2&inf_contact_key=013613337189d4d12be8d2bca3c26821680f8914173f9191b1c0223e68310bb1 Barnes and Noble https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-art-of-feminine-negotiation-cindy-watson/1141499614?ean=9781631959776 CONNECT WITH CINDY: Website: www.womenonpurpose.ca Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/womenonpurposecommunity/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/womenonpurposecoaching/ LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/thecindywatson Show: https://www.womenonpurpose.ca/media/podcast-2/ Twitter:  https://twitter.com/womenonpurpose1 YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@hersuasion Email:  cindy@womenonpurpose.ca  

The birth of my first son was a deviation from my meticulously crafted plans, shrouding me in an unexpected sense of shame. The aftermath gave rise to a tempest of postpartum depression and anxiety, a labyrinthine struggle that eventually became a catalyst for self-discovery. As the years streamed by, the landscape shifted once more - our eagerly anticipated pregnancy dissolved into sorrow through a late miscarriage at 15 weeks, orchestrated by an incompetent cervix. Yet, from the ashes of despair emerged a phoenix of resilience. The subsequent pregnancy came adorned with its own challenges, demanding a cerclage stitch to fortify my cervix. Armed with newfound strength and the harmonious guidance of hypnobabies, I navigated the path to an empowering and joy-filled birthing experience. A journey from despair to triumphant repair and the reclamation of my empowered spirit. XOXO-Theresa Kinter 3 Key takeaways from the podcast that listeners will learn today: Pregnancy with a cerclage Birthing unmedicated with Hypnobabies Misscarriage and support building 3 Keywords that people would want to search when looking for content that you would provide in this episode: Cerclage Hypnobabies Miscarriage Favorite baby product or new motherhood product? What would you buy for someone who was currently pregnant or a new parent?: A pregnancy seat belt buckle (this is a game changer for car comfort) A pair of pregnancy leggings Postpartum underwear Blackout curtains Cosleeper Summary of guest experience: I'm Theresa Kinter, a Digital Art Director at a sports marketing agency in Charlotte, NC. I have a BA in web design but I appreciate art in all forms. When I'm not cosplaying as a business woman, I'm navigating life as a mildly crunchy mom of 2 fun-loving and wild boys. I currently moonlight as an Etsy Shop owner where I create helpful comprehensive guides and cozy comforts like herbal eye pillows. ebsite:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tkstitchyouneed Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/TKStitchYouNeed Etsy: https://tkstitchyouneed.etsy.com TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tkstitchyouneed XOXO -Heids We have seats available in Birth Story Academy. Join today for $20 off with code BIRTHSTORYFRIEND at https://www.birthstory.com/online-course!  Resources: Birth Story Academy Online Course Shop My Birthing Workbooks and Guides I'm Heidi, a Certified Birth Doula, and I've supported the deliveries of over one thousand babies in my career. On the Birth Story Podcast, I'll take you on a journey through your pregnancy by providing you education through storytelling. I provide high-level childbirth education broken down to make it super digestible for you because I know you are a busy parent on the go. Plus, because I am so passionate about birth outcomes, you will hear from many of the top experts in labor and delivery. Connect with Me! Instagram YouTube My Doula Heidi Website Birth Story Media™ Website  

Today on the podcast, Sarah joins us from Minnesota. Sarah got COVID-19 very early on in her first pregnancy during the height of the pandemic. The protocol at her practice was to recommend a precautionary 39-week induction. Sarah trusted her doctor and consented to the induction along with other interventions that were suggested. Her birth ended in a Cesarean under general anesthesia. During recovery, Sarah's knees would buckle to the point where she needed assistance walking and fell until the problem slowly resolved. When she achieved her VBAC, Sarah was able to immediately walk unassisted. She wasn't groggy from just having had anesthesia. Her throat didn't hurt. She got the immediate skin-to-skin she missed the first time.Sarah is such an amazing example of how powerful a VBAC birth can be, especially with the right prep and the right team. We just love how hands-off and supportive her doctor was. Sarah went into her birth mentally and physically strong. She labored hard, stayed calm, and pushed her baby boy out in 20 minutes!Additional LinksNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode DetailsMeagan: Welcome to The VBAC Link. We have a story for you today coming from Minnesota. We have our friend, Sarah. And Sarah, tell me. Did you have your babies both in Minnesota or have you moved since then? Sarah: Yes, both in Minnesota. Meagan: Both in Minnesota. All right, so Minnesota parents, listen up. This is a wonderful episode in your area. Review of the WeekAs always, we have a Review of the week but first I want to talk a little bit about COVID-19. Sarah and I were just talking about how we have seen so many COVID-19 stories coming through. They had their C-section through COVID-19 or even had their VBAC during COVID-19 and then now they have gone on to VBAC. There is definitely a trend of situations that we are seeing so I'm just so curious today. Go comment on today's episode and let us know if you have any relation, but a lot of providers are wanting to induce if you have the virus, COVID-19. Sarah, that was kind of the case with you, right? They wanted to induce because you had COVID-19. Sarah: Yes. That was kind of the standard of care at that point. Meagan: Yes, which is kind of interesting to think about the new standard of care. I really am curious to see one day what the Cesarean rates did during COVID-19. You know, there is some evidence here and there on it, but I'm really curious to see what the Cesarean rate did because we do have a lot of people saying that they were induced because they had COVID and then they ended in a Cesarean. So we're going to talk a little bit. She's going to share her birth and her induction story that then led to her VBAC. But of course, we have that review. It is by Raving Abbeh and the title is “Confidence.” It says, “I found this podcast at 34 weeks pregnant and it helped me gain the confidence to fight for my chance and get a VBAC. I hope to submit a success story in a few weeks.” And guess what? This was also during 2020, so Raving Abbeh, if you haven't submitted your story, we would love you to and as always, you guys, we're always accepting stories. We definitely record in chunks, so know that if it takes time, that doesn't mean you haven't been chosen or you will never be chosen, but if you want to submit your story, go to thevbaclink.com/share. Sarah's StoriesMeagan: Okay, Sarah. Welcome to the show. Sarah: I'm so excited. Meagan: I'm so excited. I'm so, so excited. Well, tell us more about this 39-week induction and why they were saying it was the new norm. It was the protocol, right? Sarah: Yes. So at this time, I was working full-time in the hospital where I gave birth as a radiographer– an X-ray tech. I was kind of in the world a little bit. It was definitely not a fun time to work in the hospital. I actually tested positive when I was 8 weeks pregnant, so very newly pregnant. I was seeing family med for my provider and what they were doing at that time, they said, “Okay. This is what's going to be different. You're going to meet with a high-risk OB who specialized in COVID.” I would have growth ultrasounds every 4 weeks and then also, they were recommending this induction at 39 weeks. When I asked about that, what she said was that they had seen issues with the placenta. That was the reason that they had. I actually looked back on it now and I think in the study, they really only had 16 pregnant people so that was what they were basing this all off on. Meagan: Which is really nothing to start making a protocol so wide-ranged. Sarah: Right. Right. And actually, right now, my sister-in-law had COVID and she's pregnant. She had COVID at the same time I did at 8 weeks, but now it's 2023 and her doctor is not doing the growth ultrasounds. They're not recommending induction. There actually is nothing different with her current, right-now pregnancy which I find interesting. Meagan: Interesting, right? Right? Sarah: But again, it can range. Meagan: In 2020, it's interesting because they were like, “Oh, we're going to have you with this provider who specializes in COVID pregnancies,” but how does someone specialize that fast? Sarah: Right. The person that was the specialized person was the highest-up person in the department of OB. Meagan: Okay, so definitely a specialized OB. Okay. Sarah: Right. I actually only ended up meeting up with her one time because if there was anything abnormal, that's when I would go to her but my pregnancy was completely normal. I had no issues related to COVID or related to anything else which was obviously a blessing, but kind of also a bummer because now, I'm going to have this completely unnecessary induction at 39 weeks.Meagan: Yeah. Sarah: She did mention at the time that if I wanted to go past 39 weeks, I could definitely make that choice but she would do NSTs. Now after learning so much and being where I am now, I would have been like, “Okay. Let's go longer and do NSTs,” but at the time as a first-time parent, I was like, “That sounds kind of weird. Let's just do what you think.” Meagan: It sounds intense with all of these extra visits. It's a lot. It sounds like a lot. Sarah: Yeah. Otherwise, about that pregnancy, being a first-time parent and having this medical background, it's no surprise probably that my attitudes towards the doctors were that I completely trusted their knowledge with the COVID stuff because it was so new. Meagan: Oh yeah, and scary. Sarah: Yeah, definitely, but I was completely unaware that there was such a wide range of ways to treat pregnancies and so many different attitudes on how to birth babies. I was just clueless to the whole thing about the cascade of interventions and why do inductions have an increased risk of C-section? I was completely clueless to it. I am just used to with a doctor, you have a certain condition and there are ways to treat it. It was very narrow. But with birth, there are midwives. There are doulas. There are so many different ways to treat someone's birth and pregnancy that was just over my head. When people would ask me, “Oh, why are you having an induction?” and tell me that maybe I shouldn't do that, I was like, “Oh, well why wouldn't I when they say that is the best thing to do for this COVID situation?” For me, it was like, “Well, they know better than me.” Meagan: Right, yeah. Sarah: I think you say all the time that you don't know what you don't know. Meagan: You don't know what you don't know and you can't judge yourself for not knowing what you don't know. Sarah: Yes. I definitely had to work through forgiving myself for sure. Meagan: Yeah. You have to take the information. I think I talked about this too. My husband had said this. We took the information we were given and made the best choice that we felt we had with the information provided. Sarah:  Yes. Meagan: Right? And that's what you did. Sarah: Right. Honestly, it's funny now. Even just preparing for birth in general, take away the COVID part, it's kind of funny how I did basically nothing to prepare for birth. I just focused on my registry and other things like that after the baby got there. It was kind of because I had this, “Oh if I go with the flow, I'll have the best outcome. I don't want to put too many expectations on myself. I don't want to pressure myself. I'm just going to go with the flow. I don't know how my body is going to handle it,” which does have a place. There is a goodness to that, but I think I was a little too extreme where I was like, “My mom had C-sections. I know if that happens, it happens.” It was just very, “Whatever happens, happens.” Now, I look back and I'm like, “Well, now all I did was have no tools in my toolbox to deal with pain, labor, or resources to help make those hard decisions that I was going to have to make.” I had nothing in the background to help me with that. Meagan: No tools in your toolbox. Sarah: Exactly. That's why it was very different for my second birth but at that time, I was like, “Okay, whatever happens, happens. I don't know what's going to happen to me or how my body is going to take it, so we'll just see what happens.” I was scheduled at 39 weeks on a Monday and actually, that Friday before, they called me and said, “Hey, do you want to come in early? We have a lot of people scheduled on Monday.” I was like, “Oh, I'm excited to meet my baby. I'll go in even earlier,” which is like, oh. Okay. That weekend, we were actually moving into our new house an hour away. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Sarah: We actually spent one night at our new house and the next day we drove back to Rochester to have our baby but we were so excited. Meagan: Yeah. Absolutely. Sarah: I wasn't even thinking about anything else. We were scheduled for a 7:00 PM Saturday appointment then. When I got there, I was completely 0% dilated. Closed. 0, 0, 0, -3 station. Furthest from ready. Meagan: Not ready to have a baby, yeah. Sarah: No. So they started me with Cytotec overnight and in the morning, they placed the Cook catheter then they started Pitocin right after. I faintly remember watching Beauty and the Beast bouncing on a ball, but that was the extent of any movement in my labor. Like I said, I didn't prepare for anything. I just was like, “Oh, bounce on a ball. Everyone says that's good.” I didn't do much. But what did start happening was the baby was having decels, not liking the Pitocin, so I had to get moved from side to side. I was lying on the bed– not the best position to have the baby not be so high up. Meagan: Right. Sarah: But then by 10:00 AM, they took out the Cook catheter. I was 4 centimeters dilated. Things were moving along. But then at 11:00, they had to turn down the Pitocin because again, the baby was still not tolerating it very well. Then I felt a big pop in my belly and I was like, “Oh, is this what it feels like when your water breaks?” I was excited. I'm like, “Oh, that sounded like a balloon popping.” So they came in and they were like, “No, we don't see anything. Your water didn't break.” I was like, “Oh, okay sure.” Meagan: I felt something. Sarah: So then a half hour later, they came back in because they had to actually turn off the Pitocin because the baby still wasn't happy. They checked me and they're like, “Oh, there's all your water,” and it gushed out on them. So I was like, “Okay, well at least I know that I can trust my intuition even though you didn't quite believe me.” Meagan: Yes. Sarah: But I'm not crazy. It did break. The contractions were getting really intense at this point. I tried laughing gas. It didn't really work. At that point, I decided, “Okay. I'm ready for an epidural. I feel like I've gotten as far as I can with what I prepared,” which was nothing. I actually found out this after the fact, but at this point, they actually gave me medicine to stop my contractions. Meagan: Like terbutaline or something?Sarah: Yes, exactly. They gave me that at this point. I actually have no recollection of this, but I was able to look at my records after the fact and I was like, “Oh, I never knew they even gave me that.” Apparently, they gave me that to stop things or slow them down or whatever. I was about 5 centimeters dilated at this point and they placed the epidural. Everything went smoothly with that and then an hour later, they were like, “Oh, we're going to start the Pitocin again.” I was like, “Okay.” I was 5 centimeters at that point and then 40 minutes later, they checked me and I was 9 centimeters. Meagan: Whoa, so your body went into total relaxation mode and dilated. Sarah: Yes. Yes. I was like, “Cool. That was fast.” They had just sent away the doctor. They had to call her back. Shortly after that, I was at 10 centimeters, ready to go. This is when they had me start pushing. One important part that I know now is that I don't remember ever feeling pressure or the urge to push or anything like that. They were just like, “Okay. It's time to push.” I'm like, “Okay.”I did end up pushing for about 3 hours. They did let me try a few different positions. They tried to turn down my epidural to help too, but she never really progressed past that zero station. So nothing was happening. I was mostly on my back for all of it.I remember them saying that they would let me push for the most at 4 hours, but at the 3-hour mark, I was exhausted. I felt like we had made no progress. I was just like, “Nothing's going to change in another hour at this point for me. I don't know what I'm doing. You try to tell me how to push. I still don't know.” Meagan: Yeah. You're just like, “I'm tired.” Sarah: Exactly. The contractions were beginning to be really painful. Again, I didn't really have a way to cope with them. The pushing wasn't working so I consented to the C-section. I just remember feeling so defeated and just crying, being wheeled into the OR. My doctor stayed right by my head and talked to me until my husband was supposed to come in because I kept saying, “Hey, I feel these contractions. They are strong.” They were trying to give me all of the medicine to numb me enough. They were doing the prick test to make sure that I couldn't feel it and I just remember it was really hard because my nose was plugged up from crying. I felt like I couldn't breathe anyway. I wasn't sure about the pokes. I was like, “They are sharp to me. I feel them. They don't feel like pressure. They feel sharp.” They were like, “Okay. Well, we're going to have to put you under.” They put the mask on me. I breathed in and went to sleep. Meagan: And you were gone. Sarah: Yep. Then I was gone. Meagan: Your husband probably never came in then? Sarah: So he did get to go into the OR. She was born. They let him go in so he was all gowned up. He was in the OR. He kind of tells it like, “Yeah, it was so weird. I looked over and there you were on the table.” He wasn't so close to me. Meagan: Sleeping. Sarah: But yeah. I was sleeping. He did get to do skin-to-skin. They let him do that in the OR which was really nice. They got a bunch of pictures of her getting weighed and him cutting the cord in there so it was nice to have some of those pictures that I can look back on. Meagan: Right. Sarah: That's something. Meagan: Right, yeah. It helps you relate, too, when you're not awake. Sarah: Exactly. It was definitely a weird experience. But when I did come to, apparently, I had been awake longer but you know how that works. When you're waking up from anesthesia, it's kind of weird. But apparently, when I woke up, they told me that I was just like, “Where's the baby? Where's the baby? Where's the baby?” They rushed me back. I don't remember any of that, but what I do remember is when I woke up, my throat was so sore and hurt so bad. But she was on me and she latched immediately and started feeding so that was really special. Meagan: Yes. Sarah: Just how she was able to eat right away and I didn't have any problems with that which was really nice. I know that can happen sometimes. That's basically that birth. Meagan: An unexpected ending and a less-ideal situation, but then to come out and have things work out really nicely was probably really healing and comforting. Sarah: Yes. Right away, I was definitely happy. She was healthy. I was okay. She was eating. But I remember just recovering from a C-section, you're in a fog. I remember my legs being in those machines to keep the blood flowing, having a catheter, having my sore throat, and whispering to talk. That kind of thing was definitely not a fun recovery in that aspect right immediately after. Meagan: Yeah. Sarah: I actually had a really weird thing. I had problems with my knees. Meagan: Oh. Sarah: I have never heard anyone else talk about this. Meagan: Interesting, like wobbly and strong? Sarah: So what happened was once they took out the catheter and then they give you the, “Okay, it's time to try to go to the bathroom for the first time.” When I tried to stand up, my knees would just buckle. The first day, I had to have two people assist me to the bathroom. The second day, it was also a two-assist. Slowly, they started to not always buckle. I was in the hospital, I think, for four days. Four or five days. Eventually, they wouldn't buckle but when I got home, they would buckle when I went upstairs. I did fall twice but slowly, they did get better. It was fine. It was just if I unexpectedly took a step. My cat scared me and I stepped and then I would fall because my knee wasn't expecting it. Meagan: I just looked it up because I am legitimately curious. It says, “Acute lower limb compartment syndrome after a Cesarean.” Sarah: Oh. Hmm. Meagan: Interesting. So it can happen. Sarah: Interesting. I was just kind of assuming it was a mix of me being numbed from the waist down for hours and then my legs being up in the air for hours and then being in the C-section, and then also laying down. Do you know what I mean? Something with that, but no doctor or anything ever said anything to me about it. They were just like, “Oh, okay. That's weird.” Meagan: Yeah. Really, really interesting. It says that it's rare. Sarah: Oh. Meagan: It's pretty rare, so you get to be in one of those rare groups. Thank you for sharing. Sarah: Yeah, so otherwise, I hadn't really fully processed the birth but every time I would tell my birth story, I would choke up or cry and that's when I realized, “Oh, maybe I didn't really like that very much” because at first, you're just happy the baby is okay and you're okay. I actually remember right afterward, I was like, “Oh, okay for any other baby, I'll just schedule a C-section. This time it will be planned and I'm going to be awake for it.” I honestly wasn't even thinking about VBAC right away. I was just like, “Oh, the future will be easier. It will be fine.” But when my daughter was around 6 months old, I started to listen to The Birth Hour and I found myself searching C-section stories, looking for things like mine which led me to hearing VBAC stories, searching those out, and then finally finding The VBAC Link. That was the big game changer. I am so appreciative of you guys having this podcast and keeping it going on and all that. Meagan: Absolutely. Sarah: Such an inspiration. I learned so much even from both podcasts about interventions, doulas, birth teams, and most importantly, trusting in a woman's body. It kind of leads me to this big thing. It's like, why do we have to go through some sort of trauma to become an advocate for women and educate ourselves? Meagan: Right? Sarah: I feel like that's such a theme. Meagan: It's so true though. It's so true. Why do we have to go through a really crappy experience? It doesn't always have to be crappy. I'm not saying C-sections are crappy, but a big experience to have passion and to feel that motivation behind that.Sarah: Exactly. Yep. Sometimes, it's so hard because it's like when you talk to someone who hasn't been affected by this kind of situation where it doesn't go their way in the hospital, it sounds like a conspiracy theory. “You can't trust the doctors.” That's not what we're saying. It's so much more than that. Meagan: It is. It really is. It's not even just in birth. Truly, right? My husband does not do what he does, I think, mainly just because he didn't want to do it one day. It was like, “Hey, this really unfortunate situation happened to someone I love and I want to be available in a different manner to help them or help anybody else.” So he took on his profession. It's like IBCLCs– I'm sure a lot of them have had unfortunate or poor nursing experiences and are like, “We want to help other people have better experiences.”Sarah: Yes, because it's the information that, “Oh, wow.” It makes complete sense that, “Oh, things might go a little bit better if you let your body naturally do it.” Oh, well yeah. That makes sense. It makes sense that, “Oh, if I have someone who's trained in positioning, maybe if I move my body in this way, then I can get my baby in a better position to come out better. Oh, that makes sense. Why didn't I know that? Why didn't my doctor say, ‘Hey, there are some positions that can help.'” It's confusing to me. It's like, well that makes sense. Meagan: Yeah. Sarah: Yeah. So obviously, I just dove right into all of the VBAC stuff and learning all about that and listening to different stories. I was super excited for my next pregnancy because I had made the decision, “Yes. I'm going to go for a VBAC and I'm super excited about it.” I was ready to do all of the things to make it more successful. We got pregnant when my daughter was around 15 months old. We wanted a two-year age gap and they're both two years apart in April so that worked out for us. Meagan: Perfectly, yeah. Sarah: So the things I did to make it more successful– they are all things that people on this podcast talk about. For physical things, it was workouts that focused on birth prep. I didn't do anything crazy like walking for miles and miles every day. I just did the minimal which was doing some exercises every day for hips opening, cat/cow, and all of that stuff. I did the Miles Circuit later on in pregnancy every day. I ate my dates every day. I drank my tea.Then I think the biggest thing, too, is mentally preparing. For mentally preparing, I got my doula. I really love that the doula does the meetings before the birth. I didn't even know that when I had heard people talk about doulas but meeting before and talking about what birth plan I wanted, what things– Meagan: Your desires. Sarah: Exactly and what things could happen. I'm like, “This would be so helpful for a first-time parent to know all of this stuff.” I wish I had gotten her with my first. Also, just talking about coping mechanisms, what are some positions that we are going to do, talk about scenarios. It was great. Then I also, for mentally preparing, I looked up a bunch of different coping mechanisms. I actually did Hypnobabies. I wasn't consistent with the meditation, but it was very helpful to practice the breathing and visualization. Meagan: I did too. I did it as well. Sarah: I was really bad at the meditations so that didn't stick with me, but it was really, really great to practice the breathing and all of that. And honestly, just listening to birth stories is mentally preparing because I would really only focus on positive stories toward the end of my pregnancy. I was like, “Okay, now we are in the home stretch. We are just going to stick to all of the positive ones.” The big thing, too, was finding my provider. I joined The VBAC Cesarean Support Group on Facebook way earlier and everyone had all of the recommendations of who to go to. My provider is actually family med, but he is more like a midwife. Actually, my doula said that he's actually more crunchy than a midwife as a family med. For all of the births that she attended, she said, “He is more hands-off than a midwife.” I'm like, “Wow.” Meagan: Wow, that's cool. Sarah: And what's great is that he attends all of his births so there is no rotating call schedule. Meagan: Which is huge. Sarah: There's no, “Who's going to be there?” He's very trusting of women's bodies. I did my due diligence and I asked him, “How often have you personally seen a uterine rupture? How often do you use the vacuum? How often have you done episiotomies?” You know, so just asking him all of the things. He had really great responses and I felt really solid with him. Meagan: Which is really important, right? To have those conversations also. We know that when they come in and they say, “Hey, do you have any questions?” It's really okay to ask questions. Sarah: Yes. That's the big thing. So because he's not an OB, I had to go do a consult with the OB that he works with in the hospital. The OB who works in the hospital definitely wasn't making me fearful, but there's a certain form you have to fill out that says, “Hey, obviously if you're successful with your TOLAC, that's going to be the safest option for you. But if you're not successful, that's the least safe.” It's easy to plant doubt, but after I saw him again, I asked my provider, “How often do you see it?” It was such a small amount and since he's one of the VBAC go-tos, I felt very confident with him. It was really nice to have that fear taken away in that way. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. Sarah: And then this is kind of interesting. Just for fun, I did message my old provider at my previous hospital just to see what she would say about my chances for VBAC. I actually messaged her before I was pregnant. I said, “Hey, I am kind of processing and struggling from my C-section. What do you think about my chance for VBAC?” It was just on a message. What she said was, “You did everything you could at that time to have her vaginally, but she just didn't fit your pelvis for whatever reason. We think of fitting as a lock and key situation. Both pieces have to work together to open, so there's no way to know if a future baby would ever fit your pelvis better than she did.” Then she kind of went on. I thought, “Nope.” I'm like, “Nope. I'm not taking that in.” Meagan: Yes. Sarah: It was interesting. Meagan: Thank you so much, but no thanks. Sarah: Exactly.Sarah: Exactly. I'm like, “I don't think she didn't fit my pelvis. That's not a thing.” Meagan: But you know, it's an easy thing for people to say or diagnose. It's like, “Oh, well your baby was perfect. You were perfect, but the two together didn't really match that time.” Sarah: Right. Meagan: That doesn't necessarily mean that's true. We just don't know. Sarah: Again, we can't go back in time and have me try something different. Meagan: Yes, yes. Sarah: But I think it's interesting that she said that. Meagan: It is. Sarah: Again, I talked to my doctor. He's like, “Oh yeah. Great. Let's do it.” Meagan: Yeah. Sarah: He said, “You've got this.” So you know. Otherwise, I'm preparing. This is the funny thing too, again. At first, I didn't have any intention of trying to go unmedicated. At first. I was like, “I definitely want to VBAC,” but I wasn't trying to do that. I was just focused on the VBAC part. But once you hear enough birth stories, you know that if I do all of this preparation and I go as long as I can without this intervention, I'm going to have the best possible chance of a healthy vaginal birth. If it still ends in a C-section, it's because that was what had to happen not because I didn't know any better. Meagan: Right. Sarah: So that's when I was like, “Yes, okay. It makes sense for me to try. I should just try to go unmedicated. I should just do it. Whatever happens, happens.” I still am keeping my go-with-the-flow but with a lot of preparation. It was kind of funny because when I would tell people that, “I'm trying to go unmedicated,” people will say the craziest things to you. Meagan: Right? “I could never.” Sarah: Yes, or “I know someone who did and it was the worst thing they ever chose to do. They said, ‘Never do that.'” It's like, I know and I've heard many, many stories of people doing it and are very happy with the outcome. So definitely right before, I was 37 weeks. I was like, “I'm going to read Ina May's Guide to Childbirth.” Everybody talks about it, but I just wanted to hone in and focus on those unmedicated birth stories and just say, “How did you guys do this? How was it successful?” That was really helpful. I really liked that book. That was really good. Meagan: Yeah. I really like it too. Sarah: Yeah. Otherwise in this pregnancy though, I physically felt really good. I got Braxton Hicks contractions which I didn't have in my first pregnancy. That was definitely new. Meagan: Yes. Probably exciting. Sarah: It was exciting. I was like, “Okay, yeah. Every birth is different.” That was one of the Hypnobabies thing that stuck with me. Each baby is different. Your birth is going to be different. Don't let that fear creep in on you. But at 33 weeks, I found out the baby was breech so that was scary. Meagan: Yeah. It throws you for a loop, right? Sarah: Yes. When I found out that he was breech, I immediately messaged my doula. She gave me Spinning Babies exercises to do every day. I was making sure I was sitting forward and all of that stuff. Then I went to see a chiropractor first and then she also gave me this massage therapist who was trained in breech balancing massage. I went to both of those and the baby was flipped at my next appointment at 35 weeks. Meagan: Yay. Sarah: So I was very happy. The coolest thing with the massage therapist—in our state, I'm pretty sure she is maybe the only one who does this breech balancing massage. She told me because I actually went to do a follow-up appointment. Even though he was already head down, I was like, “Let's just go again to make sure.” She said that she was treating six other breech moms at that time and they had all flipped when I came back from my second appointment. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Sarah: Yeah. I'm always in the groups. I'm like, “If anyone is breech, try this specific breech balancing massage. Yeah.” It's really interesting just listening to her talk about it because she is so knowledgeable about, “Hey, your baby is breech for a reason. You have these muscles that get tightened. Your pelvis is this bowl and if things are in the wrong position, the baby wants to be head down. If I can release all of these muscles and make more space in there, even if the massage might not on its own make your baby flip, but giving your baby that space, then your ECV is more successful if you do that. Meagan: Right. Sarah: I was very happy because I had done all of this work and hyped myself up. I wouldn't want to have to schedule a C-section for this reason after all of that but if it happened, it happened. Meagan: Yeah. Sarah: So everything was going good then until my 39-week appointment. I had a high blood pressure reading so I was like, “Oh great.” But my doctor was not worried. He had me do an NST, labs, and monitor at home. I came back in a few days and everything was good. That was nice. Actually, the day that I went back for my follow-up for my high blood pressure was the day that I got my birth records. They had my birth records there for me. I had gone this whole time. I was almost 40 weeks and I was like, “I still really want to see.” Meagan: You had requested them? Sarah: Yeah, and it just took a really long time to get them. When I had that appointment, I was able to get my birth records earlier than I thought. I didn't think I was even going to get them by the time I had the baby. I was able to read through them and kind of work through it. My doula was like, “Oh, do you want to call and talk about it?” I was like, “Yes.” It was kind of like a fear release for me because that night I went into labor. Meagan: Yeah. Did you find anything in there that you didn't know before? Sarah: I mean, that one thing was that terbutaline. I didn't know that. And then I was just curious about some of the dilation. Also, I saw on my records too that the surgeon who did my C-section put, “This patient is a candidate for a TOLAC.” Meagan: Oh yeah. Sarah: It was nice just to have that and to see that the surgeon who did my C-section would put that on my note like, “Yeah. They are a candidate.”Meagan: Yeah, it's helpful. Sarah: Just working through it too was nice to see it in a timeline. So that night was the night I went into labor. At 2:00 AM, I woke up with my contractions. Right away, they were 3-7 minutes apart. I had the same situation three weeks before where I woke up and had contractions that were 3-7 minutes apart, but they fizzled out and didn't come back. I only had that situation one time earlier. So I was like, “Oh, this could be another practice. This could be the real thing.” But they were stronger than the last time. That's the biggest thing too. Even though they were so close together, I was handling them so well that I was like, “I think I'll just wait this out,” which is interesting because if you're a first-time mom, you're like, “Hey, this is 4-1-1. I'm having them.” Meagan: You have to go! Sarah: And they're long. A lot of them were long like at least a minute, but they just weren't strong so I was like, “Okay, well I'll wait.” Then my husband woke up at 4:00 AM. I was like, “Hey, I'm having these contractions.” His response was, “I'd better hurry up and go work. I've got some work to get done.” He's like, “Oh no. I gotta go.” So then he went away to go work on stuff. Then by 6:00 AM, I was like, “Okay.” I had a couple really strong ones so I was like, “Oh.” Then I was also getting back labor so I was like, “All right. Time to text the doula.” I was like, “Hey, this is what's going on.” She was like, “Well, your back pain might be because of the baby's position, so try to do the Miles Circuit. Eat a good breakfast. Hydrate. I'm preparing you for possibly a long day.” I said, “Okay, sounds good.” I had my bagel with cream cheese. I got my Body Armor drinks out, but when I tried to do the Miles Circuit, it was so intense. I could not. The minute I laid down and I had a contraction in the Miles Circuit position, the laying down one, it was like, “Whoa, no.” Meagan: Not gonna happen. Sarah: I'm like, “I think this is time for me to start going into some prep mode here.” So I dimmed the lights in my room. I had my ball but I actually didn't like bouncing on it so I never bounced on it. Meagan: Was it uncomfortable? Sarah: Yeah. For me, that seated position was uncomfortable. For me, I was in a forward-leaning position. I'd lean against the wall and sway or I'd have my husband come. I'd hug him and sway. I'm like, “This is working out okay.” The back labor was a different aspect that was like, “There's got to be something I can do for this back labor.” I messaged her and she's like, “Okay, well obviously have him try to do hip squeezes,” but he wasn't really getting the job done with the hip squeezes. She recommended the shower to also help us see if it's going to calm down or if it will keep going. I got in the shower and it was magic. The heat on the back was perfect. My favorite thing ever, but the hot water ran out after 15 minutes and I was so sad. Meagan: Oh shoot. Sarah: So the hot water ran out and I was like, “Oh man.” I got out of the shower and I was like, “Now we might just have to go to the hospital right now because I need hot water. I want to get in that tub.” That was my dream was getting in the tub. Meagan: Right. Sarah: So my doula checked in with me at this point and asked about the shower. I was like, “Yeah.” I think I was kind of in denial because I was like, “Oh, it's medium intense,” but they were still happening. She was like, “Okay, well maybe you should start heading in as long as they are staying 3-4 minutes consistently for an hour. Go ahead and start heading in.” At this point, she also tells me that she is actually in another birth. Then she joined me with the backup doula so she was at another birth. I was like, “Oh bummer.” But my backup doula ended up being amazing as well. But you know, when you're preparing with someone— Meagan: Can I just say right there that is a real thing? It's usually if you have to have a backup doula, it usually works out so well. Right? Sarah: Yeah, it was so good. Meagan: But like you were saying as I was cutting you off, as you were preparing with someone else, it's hard. Sarah: Yeah, it's kind of a bummer because you know this person so well and you had worked with them, but it worked out perfectly fine too. I really like my backup doula. She's great as well. She told me, again because I was like, “Hey, what can I do for now? We're going to head in probably soon but what else can I do for this back pain?” She was like, “Do you have a heating pack?” I'm like, “Ooh, yes.” I was putting a hot pack on my back which again, wasn't hot enough for me. Meagan: You needed a hot tub. Sarah: It did something. At this point, my daughter had actually woken up because we were still at home. It was about 8:00 and she was so sweet. Every time I'd have a contraction, I'd go into my room. I'd have my calming music on and my swaying but then I would leave and I'd come back out with her. She was just so sad. She wasn't crying, but she had these big tears welling up in her eyes. I would hold her and she would pat my back. She was like, “It's okay.” It's like she knew that something was going on. I was like, “I'm okay. It's okay.” She was just kind of like, “What is going on?” I wasn't making loud, loud noises but I would be doing horse lips through them or moaning. Meagan: Coping. Sarah: Yeah, nothing too crazy, but for her, she could tell that something was going on. Luckily, my mother-in-law and sister-in-law came over shortly after that around 8:30ish. My sister-in-law took my daughter and was like, “Let's go play,” so she was good. She was good. My mother-in-law saved me because she said, “Oh, I will boil hot water.” So she got a big pot and boiled hot water. She put cloths in them and put those on my back. That was amazing. Meagan: I bet that felt really good. Sarah: Right. So at this point, my husband probably should have been getting the cars ready for us to go to the hospital, but instead, he was cleaning the house frantically. Meagan: That was probably his way of coping. “Oh my gosh, this is happening. I'm going to go work and then I'm going to go clean the house.” Sarah: Yes. Yes, so we're like, “Okay, it's time. We've got to get going.” I'm like, “Yeah. I've got to get going.” So finally, we get in the car. My back is soaking wet from these hot towels but they are saving me. Luckily, the drive was only 10 minutes. I had my hot towel in there. It wasn't the most comfortable, but we got there. They checked us in and they moved us to triage. At this point, again, the sitting position was not my position for labor. It was, “Nope, not happening.” I was always kneeling, facing the back of the bed. The back of the bed was up. I held onto it. Then when I was in triage, though, I didn't have my coping mechanisms. I didn't have my hot towels. My next plan that I had was the comb technique. I had packed a couple of combs. I was telling my husband, “All right. Your hip squeezes—” he was trying to find the combs and of course, he couldn't find the combs that I brought. But he did remember that he brought his own comb. Meagan: Hey! Sarah: So I was able to take his comb which I can say RIP to his comb. I used it. There were little comb tings, whatever they are called, the teeth of the comb were everywhere at the end of my birth but it definitely worked. So then every time I would have a contraction, I was pushing on the comb and breathing as they were checking me into triage. But they were able to kind of get the band on me. They gave me an ultrasound to make sure the baby was head down while I was in triage. Then they checked me. The nurse checked me and when she was down there, she was like, “Oh, it's really hard to tell how dilated you are because you have a bulging bag of waters and I really can't tell what you're doing.” She was like, “I think you're almost complete.” I'm like, “Okay.” Meagan: Whoa. Sarah: I'm like, “Okay.” This whole time, she'd been trying to call someone on her radio, but they were really busy. At that point, she was like, “Okay, let's get this room.” She was like, “I'll just wheel you on this bed unless you want to walk.” I'm like, “Actually, I want to walk.” I was actually thinking, “You know what? I think I want the bed that is in the room. The triage beds aren't probably as comfortable.” That's where my mind was so I was like, “Let me just walk.” Meagan: No. Sarah: So they get me in the room and again, my doula is on her way but she's not there yet. It's about, I think, 10:00. My doctor comes in. They put the little IV on my arm in case I need any medicine. All I'm doing right now- Meagan: Hep lock. Sarah: Yes, exactly. All I'm saying is that I just wanted to get in the tub. This is me the whole time in triage. Meagan: I just want the water. Sarah: I want to get in the tub. I want to get in the tub. The comb is helping, but I want to get in the tub. So he comes in. I'm like, “Hey, can I get in the tub?” He's like, “Well, you can but I should probably check you first if you want me to. If you're really close like the nurse thinks, then you'll have to push soon possibly.” I'm like, “Yes. Check me because then, if I'm not, I can get in the tub.” That was in the back of my mind. He checked me. He's down there for a while and I'm finally like, “Okay, you've got to get out.” He's like, “I understand why they are having a hard time. Yes. You have a big, bulging bag of waters. I can tell why she had a hard time and I think you're maybe 7 or 8 centimeters but I can't tell. As soon as the water breaks, you're going to be fast.” I was like, “Sounds like I can get in the tub.” He was like, “Yes, you can.” Meagan: You're like, “Perfect.” Sarah: Perfect. This is when my doula came around this time. She helped get the tub in motion because they were like, “Well, it's going to take a while. We've got to get you on these mobile monitors.” She went in and she got the water going and I was able to get in the tub. The only problem is that once I got in the tub, I was like, “Oh, I think I have to poop,” which is the magic— Meagan: Means you're going to have a baby! Sarah: She was like, “Well if you want, you can sit on the toilet and see if you actually do poop.” I was like, “Sounds like a plan.” I sat on the toilet facing the back of the toilet. I had my hands on my comb. My comb was with me everywhere. That's when I had the scary, scary transition contraction. I was so happy I had her there because she was saying all of the right things and at this point, I can't remember any of them except for her saying to me, “This is the hardest part, but it's also the shortest. You are in transition.” When I heard her, I was like, “Okay, that makes sense.” I was a little shaky. You just feel so out of control. I was like, “Whoa. I don't know about this. I'm not sure about this.” Meagan: You start questioning. It's weird. Sarah: It is really, yeah. But she was saying all of the things I needed to hear, so I was good. So then I was like, “Okay, no poop is coming. Let's get back in the tub.” So I got back in the tub, and then I had probably one contraction and then a lab person came to the door and was like, “I've got to take your blood.” We're like, “Uh, okay. Let's just wait until she's in between contractions.” I'm like, “That's a good idea.” So she comes in. She turns on the light. I'm like, “This is throwing off my vibe.” She sits down next to me and she scans my band and then they were like, “Okay, let's wait for the next one.” The next contraction came and it was the, “My body is pushing! I'm pushing. Help!” I had that fetal ejection reflex, but my water was still intact so it was more of the water ejection reflex. Meagan: It was pushing that, yeah. Exactly. Sarah: My body did the thing where it pushed on its own. I've always heard about this when I've listened to the podcasts that this happens. I was always like, “Oh, I want that. That sounds nice. Do it for me,” but I did not like it. Nope. Especially because I was in the tub, maybe that's why, but I just felt so out of control. I was like, “Whoa. I'm not controlling this pushing,” but I was also very excited because I knew that meant it was time. The lab person promptly left the bathroom and they never got my blood. I don't know why they needed it, but they never got it. Meagan: I know. It's so weird, “We need your blood right now.” It's like, “Really? Why?” Sarah: Yeah. Especially when, “Oh, I'm in transition about to have a baby.” I think you're okay. Meagan: Seriously. Sarah: I had that. So that happened and then my doula was like, “Well, do you think you want to get in the bed?” I'm like, “Yes. If a baby is coming, I need to be on the bed.” So again, my favorite position—even my tub position was my hands and knees. I was draping my hand on the back of the bed kind of in that—I wasn't really hands and knees because I started that way and then I ended up hugging a pillow and kind of squatting back. Meagan: Yeah, okay. Sarah: Yeah. I started pushing. Again, my waters hadn't broken yet which was obviously, this is a big thing with my provider. He is hands-off. Any other provider would have said, “Do you want me to break your water?” Meagan: Absolutely. Sarah: That would have been a thing. It was kind of interesting that “Nope. I'm just doing it all on my own what my body wants to do.” I was pushing for about 10 minutes and then my waters exploded. They all knew it was coming, so no one got drenched, but it was so loud. Meagan: Everyone was probably a little sensitive in that area. They were probably like, “I'll walk over here.” Sarah: Yes. They expected it. My doctor was like, “I might get drenched, but I'm ready for it.” But he didn't. Meagan: That's okay. Sarah: It was so loud. I was shocked. It was like a gunshot. It felt like it was just like BAM when I pushed it out. So that was great. Then about 5 minutes after that, he was born. I pushed the waters out and then pushed him out. His head was right there and they were like, “Oh, you can reach down and feel the head.” I'm like, “I can't.” I had to reach down. I'm like, “My arms are too short.” So then I pushed him out. It was about two pushes I think.Yes, as soon as that water was done, yeah. He was two pushes after that. It was about 20 minutes of pushing total. Meagan: Whoa. That's like nothing. Sarah: Yeah, then I got to flip around. They put him on me and they didn't cut the cord until it was done pulsing. They did delayed cord clamping. They did the golden hour. He was just on my chest the whole time. I birthed my placenta which was fine. I did have a small tear which was just something I was scared about with an unmedicated birth. I'm like, “Oh, that will be not pleasant. I hope I don't but again, no idea. I probably will. Most people do.” It was a very small, I guess, second-degree tear but he numbed it. It just felt like a bunch of little bee stings. He numbed it and stitched it. It was fine. Baby was on my chest for that whole hour. What was crazy to me—I also consented to having the Pitocin drip afterward to get the— Meagan: The uterus to contract down, mhmm. Sarah: Yes, yes. I had that. Once that was done, I was able to just stand up and go to the bathroom. Meagan: Amazing, right? Sarah: I could just get up to go to the bathroom. I felt good. I felt fine. This was about 10:50 in the morning, so yeah. I was at the hospital for an hour and a half before he was born. Later that night around 5:00, we had family come over to see the baby that night. I felt as great as could be with still normal postpartum stuff. Meagan: Right. You did just push a baby out. But you weren't knocked out and coming too and all of those other things. Sarah: Yes. So yeah. That's about it for that.Meagan: Aw, yes. Well, congratulations. I'm sure that was a very different experience. I mean, I'm sure both babies were, right? We all cherish our babies' births but to be more present in your baby's birth, I'm sure definitely left an impact. Sarah: Yeah. Even my husband told me that for this time, he actually teared up and felt like it was just such a more of an emotional experience even for him which is completely understandable. It was actually really scary for him with the C-section he told me. They tell you, “Hey, we're going to go put your wife out. We're going to come back and get you and then you're going to come and be part of it.” He's sitting there waiting, waiting, waiting. They just kind of say, “Hey, you can't go in anymore. We knocked her out. You have to wait here. It's going to be a while.” Then he's just like, “Oh, is she going to be okay?” It was a little scary for him too, that first one. This was a lot, obviously, more emotional and just a really cool experience for both of us. Meagan: Yeah. I'm sure it was very healing for both of you like you said. That couldn't have been easy for him walking in and seeing you in that manner. I mean, the fact that he even brought it up. “It was weird when I walked in and you were laying there but then I'm over here doing skin-to-skin with this baby.” Sarah: Yep. Meagan: I'm sure it was so healing for both of you. Huge congrats. Sarah: Yeah, thank you. Oh, and one thing to mention with the doctor is that because I gave him all of my birth plan too, at no point in this hospital situation was I ever offered anything. They knew what my preferences were. They never said anything about any interventions at all. They never said, “Do you want us to break this water?” Everyone was on board. It was great. Meagan: Yeah. You really didn't feel like you had to fight along the way. Sarah: Yeah. It was all supportive which is what I wanted. Meagan: Yeah, and what you deserved. Sarah: Yeah. It was really great to have that. Honestly, the thing I also really liked about pushing in that position where you are facing the back of the bed was that I didn't see all of the people staring at me. It was nice because—and not that it would have mattered—but I'm kind of socially anxious in that situation so it was nice to just be focused on my husband's hand holding me. I've got my comb. I'm breathing. I'm totally in it. I'm not looking around. With the C-section, that labor was like everyone was staring at you. You're pushing and trying and nothing is happening. It was so nice to just be here in my world. I never even saw anyone. Meagan: Yeah. Sometimes you see people's faces and they are not wanting to communicate with their mouths so they communicate with their faces. So when you are just staring at all of these people surrounding you, you find yourself, “What are they saying?” Sarah: Yeah, exactly. Meagan: You start questioning it. It pulls you out of that space. It sounds like you were really able to stay in that space because maybe you didn't see any of that. Sarah: Yes, exactly. When I was pushing, it was really hard. I'm not saying it was easy. “Oh, unmedicated in 20 minutes.” No. It was hard work. There were times when some doubts would creep in and I was like, “What if he's in the canal too long? Will he be okay?” It would be easy for those doubts to creep in, but my doctor and my doula were all saying the things that I needed to hear. “You're doing it. Your body knows what to do. Keep pushing this way. Push like you're going to poop.” They were saying all of the things to keep me focused. It would be so easy if you're not ready to give birth to a baby, that feeling would be very scary. You would feel very out of control. I could see how easy it would be for that to be very, very scary. Having the people there that knew what to say to me was very helpful. Meagan: Yeah. Absolutely. The team is really that powerful though. It really, really is. Sarah: Mhmm. Meagan: So get a team. If you're looking for a doula, we've got doulas on our website that are VBAC-trained and certified. Get a good provider who is supportive and loving and willing to just like Dr. Ryan, just yeah. “Let's do this. Let's do it.” Super supportive from the get-go. “Yeah, we have to have this consult, but I'm not not supporting you by sending you to this consult.” Sarah: Exactly. Yep. He's like, “This person knows that I do a lot of VBACs. They've been through this before.” Meagan: Yes. Yes. Sarah: Yeah. Meagan: Well, huge, huge congrats.ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

A calm birthing experience is what every expecting mother and baby should have. Hypnosis for Pain-Free Childbirth: Unlocking the Therapeutic Power Within Yourself through hypnosis. In this podcast you will discover the benefits of self hypnosis during child birth with Hypnobabies. What is Hypnobabies? Hypnobabies is a best-selling Hypnobirthing course with complete evidence-based childbirth education and includes medical grade, somnambulistic hypnosis. We incorporate binaural beats in our hypnosis tracks' background music for hemispheric synchronization and deeper, more instant induction into hypnosis. Our Hypnobirthing students also enjoy “eyes-open childbirth hypnosis” during labor, remaining deeply in hypnosis and more comfortable even while walking, talking, and changing positions; being as mobile as they would like. Hypnobabies is well-known for helping people create much shorter, easier and more comfortable labors, making childbirth the joyful experience it was meant to be! Kerry Tuschhoff, HCHI, CHt, CI is the Founder and Director of Hypnobabies  www.hypnobabies.com Contact Kerry at: director@hypnobabies.com www.AmazingPeopleAmazingThings.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/chucktuck/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/chucktuck/support

Have you heard of radical acceptance? Julie Francom leads our episode today alongside Meagan as they discuss what this concept is and how it is helping them process their births even now, years later. Meagan gets especially vulnerable today as she shares a part of her VBA2C birth story that has never before been shared on the podcast. Women of Strength, birth can be all of the things– empowering, euphoric, intense, and traumatic. We want you to know that we are processing and healing right along with you. We all have work to do and we are all in this together. Has radical acceptance helped you process your births? We would love to hear your experiences!Additional LinksAccepting Reality Using DBT Skills ArticleHow to Embrace Radical Acceptance ArticleNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode DetailsJulie: Heyo, it's Julie here, your co-host for the day of The VBAC Link Podcast. I am joined by Meagan Heaton, the ever-wonderful, always amazing, always uplifting and inspiring. Man, did I already say your name? I forget. I went on a tangent. Meagan: You did. Hello, everybody. It's so fun. When we were just talking about it, I was like, “Julie, you lead the episode today.”Julie: I'm out of rhythm. Meagan: It's great. You did a great job. Julie: We are here today. We were just hashing over topics that we could talk about something that I am working through always in my life and different things that we could possibly introduce today and we landed on the topic of radial acceptance. I think we're going to tell you about why we chose that topic here in just a little bit, but I'm really excited today because birth is complicated. I feel like everyone coming here in this space with us has probably had a complicated birth or witnessed a complicated birth. Hello, birth workers. Review of the WeekWe're going to talk a little bit about that and what happens when you just can't get over it or overcome it. But before we do any of that and before I ramble on my merry little way today, Meagan's going to read a review for us. Meagan: Yes. Okay, so we have this review from Apple Podcasts. This is from our friend, Tiffany. She said, “VBAC After Two Cesarean” as the subject. She said, “After two C-sections, I doubted if it was possible to VBAC for my third. I listened to your podcast my entire pregnancy and it gave me the strength and the knowledge to advocate for myself. I changed my provider three times before finding a supportive OB. My third baby came into this world on her due date with a successful VBAC after two Cesarean and I couldn't thank The VBAC Link enough.”Oh, I am so happy for you, Tiffany. Huge congrats. This podcast is literally meant for exactly that– to give you the knowledge, to give you the strength, and to just give you the connection and this community. This community is so beautiful, so vulnerable, and obviously so near and dear to both my and Julie's hearts. That is exactly what we want this podcast to do– to build you up, to strengthen you, to educate you, to go on and have the birth that you desired, and if you don't have the birth that you desired, to have a better birth outcome. We don't have to have a VBAC in order to have a better birth outcome. That's really important to talk about too. Through this podcast, we share all of it. We share CBAC stories and elective inductions and all of these things because we know that one size does not fit all. That's exactly what we are going to be talking about today during the episode. Julie: Yep. I love that. Meagan's going to get a little bit vulnerable. Meagan: I am. I'm going to talk about a thing that I don't think I've fully opened up to yet years later. Radical AcceptanceJulie: I'm getting old now. I know that everyone is like, “Oh, you're not old.” I'm 38 though and I'm feeling it. I can't even come home from a birth now without creaking my bones in the shower and into bed. I am feeling it. I know 38 is really not that old, but I feel like I look at my friends who are 28 and I'm 38. That's a 10-year difference, right? I'm starting to see some differences between myself and them just in the space on the time lived and the amount of life lived and the amount of time spent on this twirling rock in the universe. It's interesting because I know it's not a secret here that I've had a huge mental health journey over these last two years. I feel like a lot of that has helped me grow and evolve as a human. Maybe I'm a little bit older and wiser than I was when I was 28. Oh my gosh, I hope so. I don't know. Yeah. I've come a long way since then. But, we wanted to talk today about a term that I learned in therapy called radical acceptance. I'm just going to get right into it. I don't know. Do you want to say anything, Meagan, before?Meagan: Yeah, so are you going to define it? I was going to say that radical acceptance is something that can be defined as the ability to accept situations that are outside of our control without judging them which in turn reduces the suffering that is caused by them. I think, Julie, what we talked about before is that you should start right out there and talk about radical acceptance, how you learned about it, and how it came about. Julie: Yeah. Gosh, I love it. I remember when I was going through my big trauma-processing journey a few years back, that's when I really learned the term “radical acceptance, radical acceptance” and I love it because radical acceptance is where you have to stop fighting reality. You stop responding with impulsive behaviors or destructive behaviors when things aren't going the way you want them to or looking back on the way things happened. You've got to let go of the bitterness that can be keeping you trapped in this cycle of suffering and to truly accept the reality, to radically accept the reality, we have to understand the facts about the past and about the present– like what's going on now– even if they're uncomfortable or if there is something that we didn't want to happen or to be happening. We can examine the cause of this suffering that we have encountered, the events surrounding it, or all of the situations that we went through that have caused us pain or are causing us pain. But by radically accepting them, stopping fighting them, and stopping living in this cycle of suffering, we are better equipped to move forward into a life that is better and that is more promising, and more hopeful and causes us less anxiety and less pain. I feel like it's just all about embracing things as they were, embracing things as they are, and being able to live in that even though you haven't changed any of it. I was telling Meagan before we started– I am saying this. This is a perfect example. I will never, ever, ever, ever know if my Cesarean was necessary. I won't. I think I can list ways and reasons why it probably was and I can also list reasons why it probably wasn't. I'm just never, ever, ever– I can say ever so many times– I will never know–Meagan: Never, ever, ever. Julie: –for certain whether it was necessary or not. Was my induction necessary? I think so, but I mean, I don't know really. That used to really bother me because I'm a very analytical person. I liked fixed facts and data. I like to know things with certainty. I do. That is something I won't ever know. I'm okay with that. I feel like getting to the point of being okay with not knowing and with the certainty that I will never know is very freeing. It's freeing. I feel free. I am not haunted by it. It doesn't keep me up at night. Moving beyond that, I know that I am a good mom even though I didn't know everything that I wish I would have known going into my first birth. I have radically accepted the fact that there were things I didn't know and that's okay. I am okay with that fact. I have radically accepted the fact that I cannot be a human superwoman who can juggle all of the things in my life that I need to– my kids, my husband, my birth photography, doula work, The VBAC Link, and all of these other things. I had to drop these other things and I had to radically accept that I could not keep going in the life that I was doing. It doesn't mean that anything has changed. My C-section was the way that it was. There was no change there, but I have changed the way that I thought about it, the way that I continue to receive it, and the way that I respond to those circumstances. I feel like that's what radical acceptance is all about. You can't just turn on a switch and be like, “All right. Radical acceptance. Schwink”, but I feel like if you move forward with the desire of that radical acceptance, then that will impact how you respond physically and emotionally to the thing that you're trying to accept. I don't know if that makes sense or not. Meagan: No, yeah. It does. This is going to apply to all things. In all things in life, it's really hard because like you said, it's not just a “schwink” like you say. It's not a switch you can turn on and off like, “Okay. It's gone. I accept it. Moving on.” It's not like that. It takes a lot of time and it takes a lot of mind-power and will. You have to be okay to let it go and to let the attachment to the painful past or the pain that you are holding onto go because really what is happening in so many ways is that pain is overcoming you. It's taking over you. Like Julie said, she's not staying awake all night thinking about it. It's not consuming her thoughts anymore. She's let it go and it's in a healthy place. “Okay. This happened. It's not what I wanted. It's not what I would have chosen, but it happened. I don't know if it was needed. I don't know. I really don't know, but I'm going to accept that it happened and I'm moving on.” Yeah, so I think it's so important to know that you can't expect yourself to just do it. Right? But it can be done. So yeah. Keep going. Julie: Yeah, no. I feel like another simple way to say it, and it's not simple, but a simple way to say it is understanding what you have control over and what you will never have control over. I can control how I respond to things. I can control how I do my self-care. I can control whether I meditate or not. I can control what type of clients I take on and what my travel radius is. I can control what provider I choose. I cannot control what provider I chose. It's already happened. I cannot control how Meagan thinks or acts in any situation. One of the things that radical acceptance term really clicked and the first thing that I radically accepted was my sister-in-law and I butt heads a lot sometimes. It's gotten better over the last year and a half because I have radically accepted that she is the way she is. It took me a long time. It sounds easy, but it took me a long time where I just don't worry about it anymore. She does this. She says this and I don't worry about it. I interact with my children the way I want to interact with them. I teach them how to treat other people. I respond to people how I do. I know how to treat other people and try my best to treat other people well although I am not perfect at it because none of us are perfect, but just radically accepting it– I remember the day where I was just like, “Yes. She is the way she is and I'm okay with that.” It felt like a light switch at that time, but it was a lot of things building up to that moment. I feel like we should probably say that we are not medical professionals. We are not mental health professionals. We are just talking about our real-life experiences so I feel like if you have things that you need to process through, you should see a therapist or you should see a mental health professional or somebody that can really help you. Meagan, I just sent you an article. You can link it in the show notes. Meagan: Yeah, I have it. Something that I really love is what is reality acceptance. Julie: Yeah, so drop this in the show notes. I feel like this has got lots of helpful tips there, but I want to skip to the end where it says, “10 Steps for Practicing Acceptance”. I'm using DBT. DBT is just a different type of therapy, but I feel like the first one is such a big deal. I could go off on another therapy tangent, but I won't. The first one is “Observe that you're fighting against reality.” It shouldn't be like this. Every time you say, “I should” or “I shouldn't” or “He should do that. My doctor should know better. I should do this. My kids should go to bed.”Those are requirements that you have for the world and requirements are not usually healthy. They're just not. I could go off on a whole thing, but I won't. “I should do this. He should do that. I shouldn't feel like this. I shouldn't feel sad. I have a healthy baby. I shouldn't feel sad about it.” No, that's a requirement and that is fighting against reality. You're fighting against reality when you say things like that. That's a sign that you're fighting against reality. I feel like sometimes awareness is the first part of it. Or “so-and-so shouldn't post triggering things like that. Those things trigger me. They shouldn't be posting that. They should post a trigger warning with their comments.” Those are all signs that you're fighting against reality, right? Some type of reality that exists somewhere inside of you. And then the second is just reminding yourself when those things happen, instead of sitting with that, “It shouldn't be like this. She shouldn't have said that,” remind yourself that that reality, you cannot change it. You are not in control of it. Sometimes that awareness, being like, “Oh, I'm doing this. Okay no, you're right. This is fine. It's not going to change. I can't change this. I have no control over that.” That's the first step into your radical acceptance path. I'm just going to read through the rest of these really quickly and I highly recommend that you sit with these if you can. “Acknowledge that something led to this moment.” Something happened to you to lead you to have this kind of response. The next one is, “Practice acceptance with not only your mind but your body and spirit.” Be mindful of your breath and your posture. Use your self-care skills. Use half-smiling and take deep breaths. That's a big thing for me. I take deep breaths when I feel those sensations and that tightening and tensing in my body. The next one is, “List what your behavior would look like if you did accept the facts and then acted accordingly.” Imagine what it would be like if these things didn't bother you. Meagan: How would you look? How would you feel? How would you be living your everyday life?Julie: How would your environment change? How would your body feel? How would your breath feel? “Plan ahead with events that seem unacceptable and then plan how you should appropriately cope.” Oh my gosh, we go to my in-laws for Sunday dinner every other Sunday. It was like, every Sunday dinner going in, I would see my sister-in-law. We've had moments where we've been grumpy with each other and moments where we've been fine. But during those grumpy stages, I would walk in bracing for a fight, but when I became aware and was working on my radical acceptance, I would just meditate before, breathe deeply on the way in, and walk in with a posture of lightheartedness and airyness and it helped so much. “Remain mindful of your physical sensations” because your body will respond before your mind catches up to what's going on. So being more mindful of your body is so important. “Embracing feelings of disappointment, sadness, or grief.” It's okay to have those sad feelings and those hard feelings. It's okay. You should sit with them. You should sit with them and explore them and let them move through your body, but don't stay there. Don't stay there with them forever. “Acknowledge that life is worth living even when there is temporary pain.” Things are worth moving forward and moving through. And then the last one is, “If you feel yourself resisting, complete your pros and cons exercise to better understand the full impact of your choices or your experience.” I feel like all of those things, wherever you're at in the process, moving through these steps or these little feelings are going to help you grow and become better. You're going to be released from these things that are burdening you, this reality that you don't like or that you don't accept. But yeah. Meagan: Yeah. That's what I was saying. Radical acceptance doesn't have to mean that you agree with what happened. Julie: Yes. You don't have to endorse it. It doesn't mean you have to like it. Meagan: Right, but it gives you a chance to accept things and not fight against it because it is insane how much we don't realize that sometimes these things will bring us down. They're going to bring us down. There are many times– we were talking before we were recording about how sometimes it's not even to us. As birth workers, we see things and we're like, “No!” You know? Or we have friends and we're like, “No, don't do that.” But we can't control them. We have to know that we can't control them and it's okay that we can't control them. We may not agree with the choice that they are making, but it's okay. We have to accept that. That is a choice that they feel is best for them. That is what they are doing whether or not we would do that or not. So, kind of in the beginning, Julie was talking about, “I will never, ever know if my Cesarean was truly necessary,” and something when we were talking about this is that I'm never going to know blank, blank, blank. I don't know if I've ever really, deeply talked about a part of my birth story that happened and that does affect me. It's really hard. As I'm learning about this radical acceptance, it's like, “Have I done radical acceptance? Have I practiced this or is it still eating at me?” I think it probably is still eating at me. I probably fully haven't. I'm working that way and I'm waiting for my light switch to go on and off, but I'm working up to it. It's like my light switch is half on. It reminds me of Hypnobabies. My light switch is dim. It's coming down but it's still there. So yeah, I'm going to open up to you and just tell you guys. I don't think I've ever talked about this that I know of. Julie: I'm so curious. Sorry. Meagan: You're just fine. So after I had my son, Webster– he's my VBA2C baby– I was so happy. I was so happy and I will never forget that moment of, “You guys! I did it!” and just ugly crying, screaming, and looking around the room and everyone– not a dry eye in the room– looking at me just smiling from ear to ear. And then what happened after is what I may need to work on accepting. I remember sitting there holding my baby and hearing everyone talking and then all I heard was, “Riiiiing.” Yep. I heard ringing, just like that in my ears, high, high-pitched. My ears were just buzzing. I'm sitting on a horseshoe thing holding my baby. We're waiting for my placenta. I'm hearing it and it's getting louder and then everybody started going fuzzy. I woke up on the floor covered in blankets confused. My husband said, “You passed out.” I said, “Okay. I thought I was going.” I knew what was happening, but I didn't want to say anything. He said, “I looked over,” because he was right behind me. He said, “I looked over your shoulder and your arms just went limp so I hurried and grabbed the baby and said, ‘You guys, she's passing out.'” I pass out. I'm on the ground. I wake up and I'm like, “What just happened?” Everyone is still so happy. They're not acting really any differently. They're just like, “You passed out.” I'm like, “Okay, well I did just go through a long labor. 42 hours of labor, pretty intense pushing. I hadn't eaten a ton. I hadn't eaten a ton the day before either because I was not feeling very good.” Anyway, so I was like, “Okay, cool.” A phone was handed to me and they're like, “Your chiropractor is on the phone. You've got to tell her,” so I'm like, “Hi!” I'm telling her how I did it. I'm so excited and back to normal. But laying on the floor, I guess pushing out the placenta, I don't remember. Then they're like, “Okay.” I hang up the phone and they're like, “Okay, let's get you to the bedroom.” I'm at a birth center. I'm like, “Okay great.” We stand up. We walk to the bed and I'm not feeling very good. I'm feeling really funny. I can just feel my heart. It's pounding. I think I made it to the bedroom and I was in the bed. I just remember not feeling very good. They were taking my vitals. My vitals were off, but I was just so happy. I was so elated. I was nursing my baby. He latched really fast and I was so happy. Then they're like, “Okay, we've got to get you to the bathroom.” This was a couple of hours later. They fed me some food and I was hoping that maybe it was blood sugar or something. Anyway, they fed me my food and were like, “Okay, let's go to the bathroom.” I get up and before I know it, I'm waking up. I wake up and the first thing I say is, “I'm on the ground again.” They're like, “Yeah, you just passed out again.” Did you know this, Julie?Julie: Okay, so it's kind of ringing a bell a little bit, but I don't remember.Meagan: You don't remember all of it, yeah. Julie: Well, I remember other little parts, but I just don't want to get ahead of you. But go ahead, you're fine. Meagan: Yeah, you're fine. I'm like, “I'm on the ground again.” They're like, “Yeah, you just passed out again.” I was like, “That's weird.” So I sat on the ground. We're talking about random stuff, you guys. I still remember to this day. Serial podcasts, Adnan Syed, if anyone likes crime, that was my favorite podcast. I was like, “What do you guys think? Is Adnan guilty or is he innocent?” We were just talking about all of this random stuff. They were probably thinking, “What?” It was like my fight or flight was like, “I can't deal with what is happening right now. I have to talk about something else.” So we talked about that. We talked about such random stuff. I was like, “Okay. I feel better.” I had sat up and I was like, “I'm feeling really good.” So I sat up. I walked to the toilet. I sat on the toilet and I was like, “I'm going again.” I could feel it. I communicated it. My doula and my husband run over. I'm literally falling off the toilet and I wake up to an alcohol swab. My doula had an alcohol swab on my nose. I wake up and I was like, “What the heck? What is happening?” I go to the bathroom. I go back in and I'm just not doing very well. My vitals are not good. My pulse is really high and my heart rate was actually really low. My blood pressure was low. I'm actually showing signs of shock is what I'm showing, but it's not clicking in my head. “What in the heck, right?” Needless to say, I go home. I'm not doing really well. The next day, I'm really not doing well. I'm white as a ghost. I have this weird, crazy thing. I stand up. I've got ringing in my ears. I feel like garbage. I'm very dizzy. I can't get my breath. It's just really weird. Anyway, I went to the hospital because I had gone to the midwife the day before. We did a blood draw and she said, “Yeah, you've got low blood counts.” I was like, “Okay.” It was the Fourth of July. I'm really not feeling good. We go to the hospital. We do my blood tests. The doctor comes in and has a very serious face and I'm actually really mad. It's the Fourth of July. I just had this beautiful VBAC and I'm in the hospital emergency room without my baby. Without my baby. My mom stayed with my baby. I'm pissed. I'm like, “What the heck is happening?” So he comes in and he's got this very serious look on his face. He says, “Well, we're going to have to run some more tests.” I said, “Oh, okay. What's going on?” He said, “Well, half of your body's blood is missing.” Julie: This is the part that I remember. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. He said, “Half of your body's blood is missing. You said you're not really bleeding, right?” I said, “No.” After you have a baby, you're bleeding, but it wasn't bad. I was like, “No, yeah. Pretty normal.” He was like, “Okay. Well, we're going to do some tests to see if we can find internal bleeding and if you're bleeding internally.” I said, “Okay.” So anyway, we did all of these tests. We can't find my blood. It's gone. It's missing. I have no blood– or half of my body's blood. I look like a ghost. I feel terrible. I can't function very well and he's like, “We can't find it. We don't know. You're not bleeding internally. You're not bleeding externally. We have no idea what's happened to you.” I'm like, “Okay.” So they said, “You need four bags of blood. Two blood transfusions. Two bags each.” I don't know why. It freaked me the heck out. It was a lot of someone else's blood. I know we've come a long way. I thank all of the donations. I thank all of the donations out there, but it freaked me out so I actually declined and to this day, I need to have radical acceptance. I question, “Why didn't I get blood? I would have felt better.” Julie: It took you forever to feel better. Meagan: It did. My levels were back to pretty much just above normal at six weeks. Everyone told me it wouldn't happen. Sorry, I'm weird. Yes. I ate my placenta. I did placenta encapsulation. I swear it helped. Everyone told me I was crazy. They were like, “You're not going to be able to breastfeed. You're in bad shape. You're really bad.” And I didn't do it. So I had that. Why didn't I do that? But all in all, I still have this, “What in the heck happened to me? What happened? How did that happen? Why did that happen? How does someone lose half of their body's blood?” Julie: And don't know where it goes because you didn't hemorrhage afterwards. Meagan: No. No. I had very little, normal blood loss after. Anyway, I have lots of questions. I have lots of hypotheses. I have a lot of things. Could this have happened? Could this have happened? I don't know. Maybe this happened. And some days, Julie, it does take over my mind. I get angry. I get confused and I sometimes question my team. Is there something that they know that they're not telling me? I don't know. I struggle. So I need to practice radical acceptance. Julie: Radical acceptance. Yes, you do. Meagan: Because that did happen to me and it is frustrating because I did say– so the signs of lack of acceptance is “This isn't right. It's not fair. It shouldn't be like this. I can't believe this is happening. Why is this happening to me? Why did this happen?” I have all of those feelings still. It's not fair. I had this beautiful VBAC. Now, I have this shitty– yes, I'm saying the word shitty on the podcast– postpartum experience. It was really hard and I was mad. I couldn't believe it was happening. It shouldn't be like this. I should be screaming from the rooftops, “You guys, I had my vaginal birth after two Cesareans!” But instead, I could barely walk. So I need to practice this radical acceptance. I need to recognize these signs and I need to get better because I am angry with the situation and confused. Julie: Yeah. Meagan: I feel stuck. I feel stuck. What happened? But like you don't know if your Cesarean was ever necessary, I may never know what happened to me. Julie: You will never know where all your blood went. Meagan: I will never know where all my blood went. Julie: Nope. Meagan: I will never know why I had ringing in my ears and why I passed out three times after I had him. Right? I will never know. So I have work to do. Julie: We all have work to do. Meagan: I was going to say, it's okay if you have work to do too. Women of Strength, we all have work to do just like Julie said. We have to take one step at a time moving forward and working through it and letting go of the painful past of the unknown. Julie: Oh my gosh. Okay, so I have something to say. Surprise. My therapist is obsessed with his wife. Obsessed. You wouldn't want anyone to be more obsessed with you if you are married to this guy. A few months ago, she came to him and she wanted a divorce. They are getting divorced now. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Julie: I know. It took everybody by storm. I was like, “What is happening?” Anyway, the details are not important, but he came to one of our trauma support groups the other night. He's not affiliated with the company anymore, but he just came because I told him to come and he listens to me because I'm his favorite. We were all going around the room sharing how we were doing and he wasn't going to share, but everyone got done. I came a little bit late and I was like, “Oh, did I miss his check-in?” He said, “Oh no, I wasn't going to share.” Then somebody else came in and they shared, and then he said, “You know, actually, I think I will share.” He was like– anyways, he had some concerns about sharing or not and he decided to share. What he said, I think, will always stay with me. But while he was sharing, he said, “This is the most pain I have felt in a long time, but I am sitting with it and I am letting myself feel it because I know it is the fastest way for me to get through it.” I was like, “Yes. Yes.” Sitting with that pain and that hurt and that discomfort is hard. It is so hard. So, so, so hard, but allowing yourself to sit with it and feel it and hurt and suffer is going to be the fastest way for you to get through that suffering. It's going to shorten the amount of time you have to suffer and it's going to stop it from controlling your life– maybe not right now. Probably not right now, but as you move on and as you go throughout your life, if you don't let yourself sit in that pain and struggle, then it will continue to control you and you will continue to be miserable. I just thought that was so impactful that he said that. I know that is the fastest way for me to get through this is to feel it. Meagan: Yeah, and that's scary, right? That's scary to say, “I'm going to open up and I'm going to welcome this pain.” Julie: And be vulnerable and receive it and hurt from it. Meagan: Yes. Women of Strength, as you are going through your births, you may run into this where you feel cheated or lied to or you are starting to question your own decisions or whatever. We've had an undesired birth outcome or experience and we hurt. They sting. They sting. But it's okay to one, sit with it like she said, and two, be vulnerable and be mad or angry or sad. It's okay to feel the feelings and then it's okay to have radical acceptance and move on. It's okay if it doesn't happen overnight. I love that. He sat with it or he's sitting with it. It's the fastest way for him to heal. Julie: Yeah, because he's a therapist, right? He obviously knows a thing or two. But sometimes it's hard even when we know. Meagan: Even when we know. Yeah. Yeah. So as you walk away from this episode today or drive away or wherever you are listening, we hope you know that we love you. We love you and you need to love yourself too. Offer yourself grace. Sit with it. Sit with it and find radical acceptance. Julie: We wish that for you. Meagan: Mhmm. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In this episode we take a deep dive into Hypnobabies Childbirth Education with Milène from Harmony Birth Services.  She experienced 4 very different births (emergency cesarean to homebirth), and as she describes her journey as a birth worker, you see how her own birth experiences help her help her clients to advocate for themselves and take charge of their birth experience.   We discuss:What is hypnobirthingAn outline of the classes and what is taughtThe at-home tasks with the classCore memories, critical factors, and pain management (yes - think about the movie Inside Out!)What hypnobirthing is notHow hypnobirthing can transcend birthHer doula and photography workAnd more!Connect with Milène:Harmony Birth ServicesInstagramFacebookResources mentioned: Episode 111: from cesarean to unassisted homebirth Support the showWant to show your support? Want to help us continue doing this important and impactful work: Support the Show (we greatly appreciate it!)Don't miss new episodes: Join the Aligned Birth CommunityInstagram: Aligned Birth Email: alignedbirthpodcast@gmail.com Find us online:Sunrise Chiropractic and Wellness North Atlanta Birth Services Editing: Godfrey SoundMusic: "Freedom” by RoaDisclaimer: The information shared, obtained, and discussed in this podcast is not intended as medical advice and should not be relied upon as a substitute for professional consultation with a qualified healthcare provider familiar with your individual medical needs. By listening to this podcast you agree not to use this podcast as medical advice to treat any medical condition in either yourself or others. Consult your own physician for any medical issues that you may be having. This disclaimer includes all guests or contributors to the podcast.

When the word "hypnosis" comes to mind, we often associate it with stage performances and peculiar antics, but there's a deeper and more powerful side to this practice, particularly when it comes to pregnancy and childbirth. This is where hypnobirthing comes in—a powerful therapeutic approach that taps into the transformative power of the subconscious during the birthing process.  On today's episode of On Health, join me as I chat with Kerry Tuschhoff, the founder of Hypnobabies, a program that introduces powerful hypnobirthing techniques, reframing birth as a potentially empowering and joyous event rather than an ordeal. Throughout our conversation, we'll touch on the power of language, affirmations, what to expect from the hypnobirthing process, the success of Hypnobabies, and so much more. I hope today's episode provides a new lens through which you may see birth preparation and a set of techniques that bring you greater ease and confidence on your mama journey.   Kerry and I chat about: How Hypnobabies was born and what drew Kerry to the birthing field The importance of reframing the language we use about birth The power of the subconscious mind and the beliefs we internalize when it comes to birth Reframing our mindsets about the birthing process What therapeutic hypnosis is and why it isn't something to be feared The difference between hypnosis vs. meditation or visualization How hypnosis can prepare you for the unexpected during birth The importance of advocacy and having birth partners present during labor and delivery Kerry's insight on how to make pregnancy and birth easier and more joyful   Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in to your body, yourself, and this podcast! Please share the love by sending this to someone in your life who could benefit from the kinds of things we talk about in this space. Make sure to follow along on Instagram @dr.avivaromm and go to avivaromm.com to join the conversation. Follow Hypnobabies on Instagram @hypnobabiesofficial and visit www.hypnobabies.com

Today's expecting mothers are much more proactive in their approach to childbirth preparation, and that's one reason why Hypnobabies has become so popular. What exactly is Hypnobabies and how does it differ from Hypnobirthing? What does it take to become successful in using this technique? Plus, is it really possible to have a "pain-free" birth? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dr. Kimberly Spair does it all! She holds a Ph.D. in Holistic Natural Health and Nutrition along with lots of additional certifications and degrees, all of which have helped her create an amazing career around helping others find holistic healing. Dr. Spair specifically helps postpartum women find ways to naturally combat symptoms like anxiety, exhaustion, and overall depletion. She is a VBAC mama herself and knows personally what kind of support birthing women deserve. Dr. Spair is so lovely and gracious. We know you will love this episode like we do!Additional LinksDr. Kimberly Spair's WebsiteFree Postpartum RecipesNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsThe VBAC Link Facebook CommunityFull Transcript under Episode DetailsMeagan: Hello, hello Women of Strength. We have a special episode for you today. We have our friend, Dr. Kimberly Spair. Is that correct? Did I say it correctly? Dr. Spair: That's correct. Yep. Meagan: Okay. That's how I say it in my head. Sometimes I say it and it's totally wrong. Dr. Spair: Yep. You've got it. Nope. Meagan: I said your name wrong like three times. Kimberly. Let me start sounding it out.Dr. Spair: You've got it. Meagan: You guys, she's amazing. I was really drawn to her page a while ago because of something I had seen. I think it was a post about nutrition. Nutrition is something that is huge for me. I saw such a change when I dialed in on my nutrition, especially for my VBAC. I really dialed deeply into nutrition for my VBAC. I do believe that it helped me so much. So as I started digging into her and following her posts more, I was like, “I love her. She's amazing.” So it is so awesome to have you today on the podcast. Dr. Spair: I am so excited and I love looking at your pages because you've got all of the statistics to give moms that home. The moms, and the resources like, “Oh, I had a C-section? Guess what, I can still have a vaginal birth.” I love it. I've been quoting you left and right in my posts so I'm glad we're here today. Meagan: Well, thank you. We actually just shared one of your posts which was amazing. So you guys, definitely want to check her out. We're going to have all of her links in the show notes today. Review of the WeekWe do have a Review of the Week today and then we are going to dive into this yummy episode. This is from wallabygirl and the subject is “We Got Our VBAC”. It says, “Meagan and Julie, after my first birth turned into a C-section, I knew that I wanted to try for a VBAC with my next baby. When we found out that we were pregnant in January 2022, my husband and I started doing a ton of research. I found The VBAC Link Podcast and was so inspired and encouraged. I love the mix of data, birth stories, and interviews with experts in the field of your podcast shares.”Well, guess what? That is exactly what today's episode is. A podcast with a VBAC story and data and amazing information from a professional. It says, “I listened to your podcast on my commute to and from work and learned so much. My husband and I took Spinning Babies and I started seeing an amazing chiropractor who specializes in pregnancy and bodywork. Our midwives and OB team were so supportive and awesome and the podcast helped us know the right questions to ask. Finally, after a long labor and an unmedicated delivery, we welcomed our baby girl postdates at 41 weeks + 1 day.” That was in September of 2022. It says, “I feel amazing and I cried when I got home and was able to pick up my two-year-old son. Thank you, thank you for this awesome podcast. I will be continuing to listen and highly recommend this valuable information for friends and family.” I love reviews like that, wallabygirl. Thank you so much for leaving that review. And if you haven't had a chance to leave a review, push pause right now. Head over to Google, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you are listening, and leave us a review. Dr. Kimberly SpairMeagan: Okay, Dr. Kimberly. Dr. Spair: I have to say you know you're in the right field. That review just gave me goosebumps and tears not just because I've seen so many VBACs now but it took me back to the first time that I VBAC'd. It's just a full body, tears, chills, emotion, and all of it. It's the best. It's the best. I love that. Meagan: I know that. Anytime we get these reviews or when we're doing consults because we have one-on-one consults as well. We work with people and they tell us the update. It just makes me so happy seriously down to the core to hear these amazing people being inspired. Even if it doesn't end in a VBAC, right? Dr. Spair: I love that. They're still empowered. Meagan: They are empowered and educated along the way so we are making the choices and sometimes we know. We are going to talk about how sometimes emergency Cesareans happen and sometimes they're out of our control but if we can feel empowered along the way, it truly does help our outcome in the postpartum stage which again, we're going to talk about today. You guys, we have such a great episode for you. So, Dr. Kimberly, I would love to turn the time over to you and just let you share your story and how you got going. Dr. Spair: All right. So why I'm here is because I've had two VBACs myself. My first birth, I was planning for a natural birth. I had the Webster Chiropractic. I did the Hypnobabies. I was doing prenatal yoga. All the things. Massage. I just wanted this beautiful water birth. That's what I was planning. For my first birth, I decided to birth in a birth center. Thank God it was attached to a hospital at the time. My pregnancy was beautiful. I had no issues. When I was 37 weeks, I stepped out of the shower one day and my water broke all over the bathroom floor. I called my midwife and I said, “My water broke.” She said, “You probably peed.” I'm like, “Nope, I'm pretty sure I didn't pee. It literally was a burst all over the floor.” I went into the midwife's office. She was like, “Yeah, I don't really think your water broke. I don't think you're in labor.” Okay, I went home. I was having all of these contractions. Again, I was a first-time mom. I didn't really know what was going on. I also was doing Hypnobabies so my threshold was in a good place with it.Long story short, the day progressed and I'm still thinking, “Man. These are a lot of Braxton Hicks. Something's going on.” I called the midwife again. This was 8-9 hours later. She was like, “All right. Head over to the birth center.” I go to the birth center. They're like, “You're not in labor. You're dilated but your water didn't break.” They used those little strips. They're like, “You know, you're water didn't break.” Okay. I go home. Now, it's 3:00 in the morning and I wake my husband up. I'm like, “We've got to go now. We've got to go now.” So we get in the car and had a 45-minute drive. I didn't know until after but I went through transition in the car. Meagan: Okay. Dr. Spair: I got out of the birth center and I stood up and my son's leg was out. Literally out. I waddled into the hospital. I should have started with this. I don't like to share war birth stories with moms that are about to give birth so I should have said before I started if you are about to give birth, listen to this later. I don't like to scare moms. It's such a rare occurrence that these kind of situations happen. Emergencies do happen and when emergencies happen, we are so grateful for modern medicine and we're glad that we were okay. My son, I'll go back to the story in a minute, but I just wanted to say that if you're a mom that's ready to give birth, don't listen to any negative stories. So anyway, I got out of the car. My son's leg was out. I waddled into the birth center. The midwife on call came in and she's like, “Yeah. You're 10 centimeters.” Then all of a sudden, everyone was like, “Don't push!” They're screaming at me. She was like, “Can I just wiggle him out? What do we think is going to happen here?” And he was stuck. So leg out and his body was basically–Meagan: Doing the splits. Dr. Spair: He was in a split. If they would have tried to let him come out vaginally, he would have broken his hip, his leg, his shoulder, and maybe his neck. Meagan: Complications. Dr. Spair: It was a very, very complicated situation. So of course, it was the coldest day of the year and there's no doctor in this birth center even though it's attached to a hospital. So they were like, “All right. We've got to get to the OR now.” They're prepping me. They're screaming at me not to push. I'm traumatized completely because here I'm thinking that I'm having this beautiful water birth. It's going to be peaceful and nice. Here I am strapped down to the table which I never knew was a thing until I went through it myself. They're saying to me, “If the doctor doesn't get here soon, we're going to have to knock you out.” I'm like, “Knock me out? What is happening?” Long story short, my son came. Thank God he was fine and I was fine but it was one of the most traumatic things that I have ever been through in my life. The healing was really hard. I remember trying to change my newborn son's diaper and being in excruciating pain. All around, I just had this postpartum, we were just talking about this how people say postpartum depression, but to me, it was postpartum depletion.Especially after a C-section, we're so depleted because we've had all of these medications and all of these interventions. We're not getting that natural oxytocin that we get with a vaginal birth because your baby's right on your chest and you can nurse right away. There are gentle C-sections, but in my case, they took the baby. I had some complications. He had a fever. There was a lot going on because my water did break. It was broken for all of those hours that they kept saying, “Your water didn't break. Your water didn't break.” My water did break and my son had an infection. So the bottom line is that I ended up with a C-section even though I was planning for this beautiful, natural birth. Again, I do believe that God gives us these situations because it makes us who we are and just like you shared, we go through– that's why I share my other birth stories. I have experienced a lot of different birth scenarios and I think it helps us relate to other women who are going through similar things. Meagan: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's a really unique thing about us here at The VBAC Link. Me and my team have all of these unique situations where we can really personally relate. Dr. Spair: Yes. You personally relate. But then I like to bring women back to say that if you are someone that is planning a natural birth, a home birth, or whatever, these situations are really rare. Like yes, I went through it. Yes, she went through it, but it's not that we shouldn't be trusting our bodies and knowing that they know what to do. Just that emergencies can happen just like with anything. Things can happen and we're grateful for lifesaving measures when necessary. Now, are C-sections overdone and are they done just because it's Christmas morning and the doctor wants to get home? I mean, that's a whole other conversation about how C-sections are definitely performed way too often. Moms who have had one C-section are basically put into this box of, “Okay, you've had a C-section. Now you should have another C-section. Now you've had two C-sections. You definitely should have another C-section. Why would you even try to have a natural birth after that?” Meagan: Yeah. Dr. Spair: I love that you share that you had two and then you had a vaginal birth. That's just incredible and I think that provides a lot of hope even for my community. It's never too late to trust your body and give it a shot. Meagan: Absolutely, yeah. Dr. Spair: So then two and a half years later, I got pregnant again and I'm like, “I'm going to have a VBAC. I want to have this natural, beautiful birth.” And I did. I had my daughter right next to the hospital. It was a home birth but it was not in my own home. Because of the state that I live in, I actually had to cross state lines. And that's another thing. People say to me all of the time, my women will say, “Oh, well near my house, there's not this resource or there's not that resource.” Sometimes we have to go get the resources. The state that I live in does not allow VBACs to happen outside of the hospital, so I went to another state. These are things that we can make happen if it's that important that we don't go through another C-section. For me, I knew that if I went through another C-section, I never would have had a third child. It was that traumatic for me. It was that hard to heal from. It was something that I never wanted to experience again and I knew if it happened a second time that I was done. I knew that I wanted more babies. So my second one was a home birth VBAC literally a mile, two miles from a hospital at a location with midwives and it was a beautiful, healing birth. He was 42.3 weeks and that's the other thing I would love to talk about. People who get induced at 38-39 weeks depending on what's going on, 41– oh my gosh. We have to give medication. When you wait until your body is ready and your baby is ready, your chances of having a natural birth, especially a VBAC, go way up. Way up. My third birth was a VBAC at home right here, right over there in a pool right in my own bedroom. I went from a very traumatic, horrendous birth to a second birth where I was hanging onto hope but I was still a little nervous about this whole situation, to a third birth where my midwives literally got here at 11:00 at night and I stepped into my pool and at 1:08, my baby was here. I was in labor all day long. I was at the park with the kids. They were scootering around. I was walking. I was doing squats on all of the play equipment. I cooked dinner. I was just holding the counter going through my pressure waves. I took a shower and was oiling up my belly and the whole thing. I went down and had a snack. I'm on the ball. The kids are with me and then I was like, “It's time to go upstairs.” They got here. I went through a couple of birthing waves. I got in the birthing pool and there she was. There she was. It was beautiful. With the third one, I truly visualized my birth and this is part of what I'm going to be helping women do in the future. It's a whole visualization process because it's so true when you can take your fears which, with that first VBAC, I had fears of all of the things because they brainwash you into thinking you're crazy and that you actually want to go ahead and do that. But I love seeing your statistics because it's like, wait. You actually have a better chance of a VBAC. But what I was going to say is the process of visualizing what you want your birth to be like is so powerful. That's what I want women to hang onto. Even if you come into a situation where interventions have to happen or the birth plan changes because they do, coming from an empowered and relaxed state is completely different than showing up at the hospital in this raging fear, terrified mode. There's so much to be said about the education and the empowerment piece when it comes to successful VBAC. Meagan: Absolutely. Yeah. I think, like you were saying, there are so many people out there, not just providers. Providers are sharing things and sometimes they share things that may sound fluffed a little bit because of maybe one of their experiences so they have trauma. Dr. Spair: Yeah. Always. Meagan: They see these things and sometimes the way they say them is like, “Oh, whoa. That's really scary. Maybe I am scary.” Then they twist our thinking. But it's not just providers. Many people out there– friends or family. Dr. Spair: Family. All the time. Yep. Yes. Meagan: Everybody, right? I mean, I was in a VBAC-supportive group on Facebook and I was still being told, “How would you even?” It's so hard so that's why it's so important for us to really learn those stats and then figure out what's acceptable to us. Dr. Spair: Yes. Meagan: What's acceptable to us?Dr. Spair: What risk is acceptable and then how can I make myself feel comfortable? My second birth was a VBAC. I didn't want to be in the hospital, but I live very far from a hospital, so what can I do to make myself feel comfortable? If I'm a mile away from the hospital and something goes wrong, am I okay with that? I'm right there. For some moms, it's a VBAC in a hospital situation. What would make me feel comfortable? Meet that with your risk. That way, you're not in a situation where you're feeling fear and trying to birth because that doesn't work either. We have to be comfortable and confident with the decisions that we're making. I think that women out there are swayed in all of these different directions. They're either in the category of a C-section camp over here, repeat C-section, or in the natural birth community which I will say that the natural birth community, after you have a C-section, is extremely unsupportive. Even if you are a mom, like I was my first time, I was planning for this beautiful, natural birth and after, it's like, “What did you do wrong?” It's like, “Wait. I didn't do anything wrong. An emergency happened and I had a C-section because it saved my son's life.” There's a time and a place for that but you feel this guilt from this community that's looking at you like, “Oh, you didn't have this rainbow and butterfly birth?”Meagan: Oh yeah. I will never forget the feeling that I had when my second birth, I was going for a VBAC and I didn't obviously end up in a VBAC. I ended up in a repeat Cesarean. I will never forget the feeling inside of my head of, “Great. Now, I have to tell people and they're all going to think I failed.” Especially those people who didn't support me in this in the beginning. They're going to be like, “Yeah, I could have told you that five months ago.” I just remember that feeling and then when I talked about it, I did get some comments like that. Dr. Spair: Yes. Yep. Meagan: I encourage our community to never be that person. Dr. Spair: Whichever way you end up in your birth, birth outcomes are birth outcomes. Women need to be supported no matter what they decide. No matter what they decide. Even if they are in a fear-filled state and they choose a C-section again, we have to support those women too. Meagan: Yes. Dr. Spair: Even if we don't agree with that choice because a woman who is giving birth whether it's vaginally or Cesarean, they're a mom and they have to feel loved and supported so they can love and support that infant. Tearing women down in this very, very vulnerable state that we are in after we give birth is setting them up for postpartum depletion, depression, anxiety, fear, and all of these crazy things that again, women don't talk about. We put people in this camp of, “Oh, well you're just anxious. You're just depressed.” Meagan: This is normal. You just had a baby and this is what you're supposed to experience because you're tired. No. Dr. Spair: No. You're depleted. You're depleted. It's depleted in nutrition, depleted in sleep, depleted in resources, depleted in support. Sometimes it's just someone to say to you, “You did a great job. You brought this baby into this world. You went through Hell. You can't even laugh or sit up but you did a great job.”It is hard when you have people surrounding you and say, “Well, see? You ended up with a C-section.” It's almost like they're proud to tell you that you failed at what you were going for. I had that experience too. Meagan: Exactly. Yes. That is how I felt from a lot of people and then when I chose to VBAC after two Cesareans, oh boy. Dr. Spair: Oh gosh, now you're really in trouble. Meagan: Now I'm a nutso, right? It's so hard. I just encourage our community to build one another up. I've made posts on this. I challenge every single one of you to love everyone for who they are and what they decide even if it's not what you would decide, right? Dr. Spair: Yes, exactly. Meagan: Let's dive more into what you do and talk about that postpartum and how we don't talk about it enough. We don't share. Dr. Spair: We don't share. We don't talk about it. I have a practice primarily, well, almost all women. I do say that I get the husbands and the sons when women heal and they go through something. I work a lot with women with chronic illness, postpartum, and those kinds of things. When they heal, they do send me their husbands and their sons, but it's mostly women and a large majority of pregnant and postpartum moms. What I can say is 90% of postpartum women go through some type of depletion period. It's part of becoming a mom. When we go through a birth whether it's a C-section or a natural birth, there is a load of adrenaline that happens. Massive adrenaline. Massive cortisol as we are birthing a baby either way. It doesn't matter if it's a vaginal or surgical birth. What happens is that women become completely depleted especially if they don't have support. They don't have someone there cooking meals and making sure their toddler is taken care of. They're running around the house trying to do all of these things instead of resting. That whole thing “sleep when the baby is sleeping” is the silliest thing you've heard in your whole life because your kitchen would be covered in dishes and all of that. We all know that. Meagan: And then we feel anxious when we look at those kitchens. Dr. Spair: And then we're anxious when we look at that or we're anxious because our toddler is not being taken care of correctly or eating things that we don't want– those kinds of things. I think it comes down to women sharing and talking. Women postpartum have really crazy, irrational fears. We all, most of us, have had those feelings. When women talk about it, they think, “Oh my god. Someone's going to think I'm crazy because I'm sitting here watching my baby sleep all night long. People are going to diagnose me with PPA or all of the things because I'm going through this.” If women would just share so that other women could say, “Oh my gosh. I definitely went through that too. I felt that way too. I was terrified. I had those crazy thoughts where I was just afraid something bad would happen,” they would say, “Okay. This is part of postpartum. I'm just depleted. I need to nourish myself with nutrition. I need to make sure that I'm hydrated and I need to prioritize sleep someway, somehow, when I can.” I think a lot of our anxiety would go from here to down because we hold ourselves and compare ourselves to other women out there who may have a lot of other support or they may have someone that's taking care of their every need and not every woman has that, then we are afraid to talk about our experience when we're trying to hold up all of these different things. I remember with my first birth, my husband went back to work right away so it was just me and this newborn. I had a C-section. I had a straight staircase up and down and they're saying, “Don't go up the staircase.” I'm like, “Well, I've got a newborn.” I did set myself up downstairs so I could mostly be downstairs, but things happen. You run out of diapers, all the things. I had an enlarged uterus because I was going up and down those damn stairs even though I wasn't supposed to be. The dog is up there. So it's just a matter of really looking at support and then talking with other women, women that are honest though. Women that are in a place where they're comfortable sharing what they have gone through because a lot of women will just tell you, “Oh yeah, my birth was beautiful. It was la, la, la, la, la,” and they're not really going to share that peace about, “Oh, no.” Meagan: The vulnerable part. The vulnerable part. Dr. Spair: Yes, yes. Meagan: The stats show about 1 in 7 which I think is about 15% or so will actually be diagnosed. I think we sometimes hear that– you just said it again– they get scared to be diagnosed or labeled. Dr. Spair: Some women go through more than others, but for most women, it's just that TLC piece. If we had someone to really nourish us with the food we need to recover, I'm really big on infusions and herbs and teas, and those kinds of things. If we had that and we could set ourselves up, which is what I do. I help women to prepare for the postpartum period so that they can– I can't say that I'll eliminate it completely, but mitigate that and have those things on hand so that when they start to feel a little anxious, they know what to do. That's where it comes into play. Instead of going into this thing that women don't talk about postpartum, women don't really talk about the birth so much, they just talk about this beautiful baby and that's the great part. That's the amazing part but nobody really talks about walking around in a diaper for 3 weeks. Meagan: Right? Dr. Spair: But that scar and feeling that scar and peeing your pants and all of the things that women don't want to talk about. So that's my mission is when I have a mom who is newly pregnant, it's not a fear thing. It's just like, “Hey. You're a woman. I'm a woman. These are some of the things that a lot of women go through postpartum and it's normal. It's normal.” You go through it and you come out the other side. You really nourish your body. You'll feel like yourself again, but there is a period where we don't really quite feel like ourselves and that's okay too because you just birthed a human.” Meagan: Yeah. And it is okay. It's also okay to talk about when we don't feel normal or don't dismiss something because you think, “Oh, this is normal,” if you're having those scary thoughts. I had an adorable client that called me and she was really struggling. She said, “I'm not having scary thoughts about hurting my baby. I have this irrational fear of me dying.” Dr. Spair: Yep. A lot of women go through that. Meagan: Right? She was like, “I just need to talk about it.” We just talked and I just listened. After, she was like, “Oh, thank you.” It's like, if we're sitting there inside of our mind thinking such scary things like we're going to die– Dr. Spair: Yes. A lot of women go through that and then think that something will happen to their child. That happened to me after my first child. I was so afraid that something was going to happen to him that I was hyper-vigilant. That put me in a very anxious state. It wasn't depression. I wasn't sad. I had to be with him every second because I was afraid that something would happen. I think a lot of women go through that and they don't talk about it. Then you think something's wrong with you. You think something's wrong with your brain. Meagan: Yeah, a lot of times we are scared to talk about it because we're scared of being labeled or diagnosed with things. Dr. Spair: You don't want to be labeled or diagnosed or have someone trying to shove things down your throat, right?Meagan: Yeah. Let's talk about that. What are the steps to talking about it? You talked about herbs and teas and feeding. I love the analogy of depletion. Depression and depletion, right? Dr. Spair: We're just depleted. We're depleted. We don't have to stick a label on it. There's a huge thing around nursing moms and that depletion piece where they usually get this information of, “Okay, well you should just wean your baby and stop breastfeeding and focus on yourself,” where there are hormones involved for moms that choose to breastfeed. We have a lot of oxytocin just from being skin-to-skin when we are nursing our babies. So instead of saying, “I'm not going to do this now,” a lot of times, if moms get the right support and they choose to do the skin-to-skin and they nurse, they do start to feel better mentally because they are getting that oxytocin. It does bring the cortisol down when we nurse a baby. For me, it's always been an instinct. When I'm nursing a baby even now, if I go through something stressful and I nurse my kid, it's like, “Ahh.” You feel calmer. Now in the beginning, it's not always like that because it can be a struggle for women– the latch, the this, the tongue ties, the lip ties, this, that. We've got to get those things right and those are other things that I help to identify in women because that part can be challenging but once we get over that hump, those hormones are really important to our bodies, to our immune system, and to our recovery. If you're not a mom that's nursing, that skin-to-skin is still very important for that feel-good hormone production to help your brain feel better. Holding your baby tightly, skin-to-skin and all of that is just very, very, very important to how we feel. Yeah. It's definitely part of that. And then in terms of herbs and nutrition, a lot of us and I'll say us because I went through it myself the first time, we are so into this “Everything is about the baby. Everything is about the baby,” and I put myself aside. Meagan: We forget. We forget to take care of ourselves. Dr. Spair: We forget to take care of ourselves and we will go hours without eating or we aren't drinking and then we're nursing and we're using up all of this hydration and we're not replenishing. So we're dehydrated. We're having skyrocketing blood sugars and plummeting blood sugars because we're going so long without eating then we are eating a huge meal and then we're not eating again. When our blood sugar is down, or cortisol is up so we can have anxiety and jittering and things like that. What I always tell my moms is every two hours, make sure you're having something. Small bites, small sips. Make sure that something is going in. Even if it's, “Oh, I don't have time for myself,” make a big smoothie on your counter and every couple of hours, fill it up. Sip on it. Keep your blood sugar steady throughout the day. And then the things post-birth that I love– nettle infusions. People talk about nettle a lot, but they're using a tea bag. I'm talking about an infusion in a mason jar. A couple of tablespoons of herbs that you soak for a good hour or two and you're sipping on it. That's like an infusion. That's a vitamin and mineral infusion. When we say that we are depleted post-birth, we lose blood when we give birth. Even if it's a natural birth, we are still losing blood so we are depleted in minerals. We are depleted in vitamins. So nettle infusions and I like the raspberry too because it helps to tone the uterus which means those post-birth contractions. So infusions with red raspberry leaf and nettle is a wonderful tonic for all women, not just to balance the hormones and to help with breastmilk, but to also help to give us back some of– we've really done a job of growing a baby and we're depleted. The other thing that I love post-birth and some women will argue, “Oh, it decreases breastmilk supply,” but I've never seen that in my practice, is a little bit of lemon balm in that infusion because it, again, helps to bring down those feelings of anxiety. It's really good for the nervous system. The total nervous system calms everything down because again, post-birth, we're in an adrenaline surge. The body went through all of that adrenaline. Some women feel that for days, weeks, or months before they start to calm down again. Those are some things that I find really helpful. Meagan: You said that a lot of people think about a tea bag, but you're saying herbs. Where would one something where they make this? Dr. Spair: Mountainherbreserves.com is my favorite. You just take a mason jar. You can get these at the grocery store, Tractor Supply, Amazon, or anywhere. They make a little infuser that goes at the top. It's about this high. It sits at the top. You put the loose herbs in there. Fill it with hot water and steep that for an hour or two hours. The longer you steep it, it will be stronger. So if you're just starting out, do a little bit of herb. Let it steep for 20 minutes and see how you do with it. I like to let it sit for a while and sip on it. Meagan: This would be good for anyone, Cesarean or vaginal. Dr. Spair: Yes, to help us recover. We need to recover either way. Either way, we need to recover. Meagan: Is it stinging nettle? Dr. Spair: Yes. Yes. Stinging nettle and then red raspberry leaf. Meagan: And then some lemon balm. Dr. Spair: Some lemon balm if you're not afraid. It's in the peppermint family so some women say, “Oh,” but in my practice, I've had postpartum moms on lemon balm for the last 8 years and I've never had one that has had issues with milk production. I wouldn't say a ton of it off the bat, but a little bit will help to take the edge off. I always say that there is this risk/benefit thing. If a mom is really struggling, she's probably not going to make it with breastfeeding anyway, so if we can help her central nervous system, we can deal with other things.I love Ashwaganda post-birth. I think that's another one that's really beautiful for the adrenal glands. Magnesium is so good. It helps, again, with post-uterine contractions. Women are feeling that. They're feeling uncomfortable. Magnesium is great for that. It helps with fluid retention in the body. With C-sections, you know what happens with that. I didn't have an ounce of swelling during my entire pregnancy. I had that C-section and my feet, I was like, “Oh my gosh,” and I had zero swelling. Meagan: I sweat. I had severe night sweats. Dr. Spair: Yes, because you know what those night sweats are? It's all of the drugs that have to come out of the spinal. Meagan: It's everything coming out of my body. Dr. Spair: It has to come out and that's a problem too. What I love for that postpartum is milk thistle. A milk thistle tincture for moms that have C-sections to get rid of the drugs that we have to have when we have a C-section. Even if you're a mom that has a VBAC and you have a spinal, and you're feeling like your system is a little gunked up, milk thistle is amazing. We can do a lot with nutrition. If you don't want to use herbs, there are a lot of other things you can use. Green juices, cucumber juices, those kinds of things are wonderful too, but if you want a tincture, milk thistle is a beautiful way to gently cleanse the body. Meagan: Cleanse the body. Awesome. Well, let's talk a little bit about nutrition. So many times, we have a baby, and then any extra support that we have, they want to bring meals and they bring things like lasagna. Dr. Spair: I know. Meagan: And bread, and pizza. Dr. Spair: I know. It's not something that you'd be like, “Okay, this is good.” It's easy. Meagan: You'll take anything. Dr. Spair: You'll take anything. Meagan: I don't want to ever shame anyone who has ever made lasagna for someone who has had a baby. Dr. Spair: No, exactly. Meagan: I'm guilty of that. But at the same time, there are so many nutrients that we are lacking that we need for our brain functioning, our body functioning–Dr. Spair: There are some key things that we really need. Raw, leafy greens are one of them and it's like, “Who the hell wants to eat a salad after they birth?” I get it but there are easy ways to bring greens in. I'm going to go back to the smoothie again. My favorite way is frozen mangos, spinach, and coconut water. You can throw bananas in there if you want. You get those greens in your body, you are a different woman. Again, we're depleted so those raw, leafy greens are just– again, it's like an infusion. Moms feel better mentally, physically, all of it pretty much immediately because of the leafy greens. Again, when we lose blood, our iron reserves go down. So low iron, fatigue, and all of that, raw, leafy greens help to bring that up. So does the nettle. The nettle helps with raising the iron. Raw, leafy greens are so important. Again, you can do them in the smoothies if you don't want to eat a salad. The other thing I do if I have a warmed soup or even if you had something like a lasagna, chop them up really small. Put them on like a garnish. At least you're getting something in. You can fold raw, leafy greens right into a warm soup or a stirfry so you're still getting warm food, but you're bringing some greens in. Some women postpartum have a hard time with that, so we have to find alternative ways. It's not always just black and white. Go eat all salads. Sometimes we have to meet women where they are and say, “Okay, you're going to eat that warm meal. Let's doctor it up a little bit.” Meagan: You can still have your comfort meal. Dr. Spair: Yes. There's a way to do it. There's a way to do it. Meagan: With empowering, enriched nutrients. Dr. Spair: Yes. Yes. There's a way to do that. And you know, things like selenium and iodine, there are simple ways. A little bit of seaweed for iodine protects the thyroid. It really helps moms recover and then selenium, one to two brail nuts a couple of times a week really helps again with that thyroid function for moms postpartum as things start to fluctuate. There are really easy little tricks that are like, “If I just did these few little things, I'd be in a different place.” Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Spair: I'm really big on freezer meals. I have a free thing on my website. It says preparedness, be prepared and it's a bunch of meals that moms can make ahead of time. Meagan: That's huge. Dr. Spair: They can freeze them. I'm guilty of it though. With the third baby, I was like, “Oh, I'm going to make all of these things,” and whatever. She didn't come until 41.5 weeks and I still didn't have too many things in my freezer but if you're a planner and you want to do things ahead of time, we have a resource there that's free. Meagan: I love that. We're going to be sure to drop that in the show notes right now because there are a lot of people who are saying, “You're coming up on your due date. What can I do to help?” You can send them that link and say, “Can you make this meal for me?” Dr. Spair: Yes. “I would love for you to make some of these things,” if there are people that would be open to that. That would be great. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. That would be so awesome. So cool. Is there anything else that you feel is important to share? There's just so much. As a specialist in health and nutrition and seeing the postpartum and knowing your own journey, is there anything that you're like, “This is the biggest takeaway for you as a listener”? What is your biggest takeaway?Dr. Spair: For me, it's that moms have to take care of themselves. I understand because I'm a giver. People still tell me. I'm guilty of it. “Kimberly, you have to take care of yourself.” But it's my baby, my middle kid, my big kid. We're giving, giving, giving, But when we don't take care of ourselves, those babies need me. Our babies need us so if we don't take care of ourselves with the same love, compassion, and consideration that we take care of them, then they have half of us or a shell of us. We have to take care of ourselves. We need to prepare with the nutrition. If herbs are something that you are into, I highly recommend that for that depletion stage and just really take care of yourself. Even if it's just, “Okay, I need to get outside for 10 minutes. Fresh air. Put my feet in the yard.” Those kinds of things make us feel alive.With my second, I remember my midwife saying to me, “No matter what, take a shower every day. Once a week, put on make-up.” It's like, make-up? I never thought of, “Put on make-up? Why would I put on make-up?” But let me tell you something, you do it and you're like, “Oh. I know that woman in the mirror. There she is.” There's a feeling to that. There's a feeling that comes with feeling like yourself. So if you can get in a shower and once in a while, put on some make-up and put on some clothes that make you feel like a human even if you're dealing with diapers and poopy hineys and all of those things, every once in a while, take care of yourself. That's the most important thing. Meagan: Yes. Yes. So Women of Strength, as you're listening, I can't agree more. Use this as a takeaway. Take care of yourself. Make sure you are knowing that you are important too because I think naturally, it's weird but naturally as moms, sometimes we get in that, “Well, this baby and this baby and this and that,” and we just think about all of the things. Then like you said in the beginning, we get to the end of the day and we're like, “What have we eaten today?” Dr. Spair: And sometimes we get to, “Who am I? Who is this person in the mirror?” Meagan: Yes. Yes and at the end of the day, we're like, “I don't know, but I'm too tired to think about it so I'm just going to go to bed.” So it's so important for us to remember that we exist and we're important. You have classes that help people along this journey. I know you're creating more classes too. Do you want to tell everybody before we go a little bit about your classes? Dr. Spair: I have a course called Empowered Moms. It's coming up in May. It's a month-long course and it covers everything and anything that you want to know as a mom. Literally, I learned all of these things on my journey about holistic health and nutrition. Moms come to me that have kids with chronic ear infections or chronic symptoms or illness or they just want to do things a better way. They feel like they're always in the pediatrician's office and they want to take their power back. They want to learn how to use herbs and homeopathy and use things medicinally so that it's not that you'll never need your pediatrician again, but maybe you can break free from the cycle of things that you're– if you can catch my drift– having to give over and over again for chronic symptoms. My course helps to help moms. Again, it's called Empowered Moms. It's empowering moms to take their power back and giving them the tools necessary to help their families nutritionally and herbally. Again, I get into homeopathics. I also get into self-care and things for moms and what they can do for nervous system healing because that's all of us. And then I have a birth course that's going to be launching by the end of the summer. I'm super excited about that. It's going to be all about preparing for birth, birthing itself, and then the postpartum part which I think is so important. And then I have one other course called Empowered Women. That one is only for women for all women's health issues, so moms who struggle with anything from hormonal issues to thyroid issues. All the things are covered in that course. Meagan: Adrenal fatigue. Yes, when I was looking through, I was like, “Dang. I think I might need to take this course myself.” Seriously because I know that there are so many things hormonally that I haven't figured out yet. I am in that routine of, “Okay, I'll go get my blood drawn again. Let's go and do this. Let's go and do that.” I'm not figuring out what's really going on at the root. Dr. Spair: Because a lot of the time, they say it's hormones but we all have this viral and toxic load. I'll just briefly explain. When we keep the viral and toxic load here under the bucket where we all have, there are no symptoms. When it starts to bubble over and now we've got lots of toxic load and lots of viruses and pathogens in our body, we see symptoms. My job is to help people get all that back down. We are cleansing. We are taking care of viruses, pathogens, and latent infections in the body, and then symptoms disappear. That's what it is. It's not always that people think, “I need a diagnosis. I need a diagnosis.” I think everyone should go to their doctor. I think that people should definitely go but a lot of those people are searching and they're getting all of the bloodwork and they're going through all of these things, but I recovered from Hashimoto's, a neurological disease, myself. Meagan: Yes. There's a whole story. Dr. Spair: Yes. I went through all of that. I had a $15,000 book of labs and notebooks and all of that. We lost our first home because of my chronic illness and it wasn't until I took my own power back and said, “All right. There are things that I need to learn about my own body and I can cleanse my way out of this.” Again, it's not telling people not to go get the labs and figure it out, but if you're in a situation where you've done all of those things and you're like, “Well, shit. I'm not feeling better,” sometimes, there's something else going on. Meagan: Yes. Your story is just amazing. It's so empowering. I encourage everyone to go to drkimberlyspair.com and spend hours on this website because seriously, you have so much. You have product guides. You have testimonials. You have the fertility and pregnancy and your amazing blog. I know you offer not only these courses but one-on-ones and more about you and your history and your journey and why you are here today empowering these women to again, take things back and have the power in their pocket. “To reclaim your health, empower your family's future” is what you say. I think it's amazing and what you're doing is so amazing and I just am so grateful for you today. Dr. Spair: I'm grateful for you. We're going to be sharing this too and I'm going to be sending all of the people to your page too because moms need the information. They need the statistics. They need the support and they need to feel seen and heard. Thank you so much. Meagan: Thank you. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Have you heard of HypnoBirthing, but don't understand what it is? Birth, Baby! host Ciarra Morgan is a Certified HypnoBirthing Educator and today she explains what it is!To sign up for any of Ciarra's classes: https://empoweredbeginningsatx.com/class-registration-formTo find a Certified HypnoBirthing Educator in your area, click here: https://hypnobirthing.com/directory/category/hypnobirthing/GlowMama for Hypnobabies https://glowmamahypnobirth.com/Please feel free to reach out to us with any recommendations for show episode ideas. If you'd like to be a guest, email us with some information about yourself and what type of podcast you'd like to record together. Thank you for all of your support and don't forget to follow and review our podcast, Birth, Baby!Instagram: @‌BirthBabyPodcastEmail: BirthBabyPodcast@gmail.comWebsite: https://birthbabypodcast.transistor.fm/Intro and Outro music by Longing for Orpheus. You can find them on Spotify!

Today I'm giving you all the deets on how I'm physically & mentally preparing for an unmedicated birth! I dive into 8 specific things I'm doing to be as prepared as possible, while also knowing it can turn out differently. As always, Join the Mind Your Hormones Method, HERE!NEW FREE TRAINING! How to build a hormone-healthy, blood-sugar-balancing meal! (this is pulled directly from the 1st module of the Mind Your Hormones Method!) Access this free training, HERE!Links Referenced In This Episode: 248. [INTERVIEW] Preparing for & navigating MOTHERHOOD while prioritizing your health & your relationships with Gillean Barkyoub266. [PREGNANCY] DELAYED CORD CLAMPING- What is it & why it's part of my BIRTH PLANTry the Hypnobabies course I'm taking, here! Use code CORINNE for 10% off!! 285. [PREGNANCY] How drinking RED RASPBERRY LEAF TEA & eating DATES in 3rd TRIMESTER can improve LABOR & BIRTHING!NEEDED | What to look for in a Prenatal vitaminDiscount Codes: Shop Here! Use Code CORINNE for 20% off your first order or 20% off your first 3 months of one month subscribe & save!CORINNE100- $100 off 1st 3 months of the complete plan.CORINNESAMPLE- $10 off sample packs.Check out our Sponsor GutPersonal! Code CORINNE saves you 10% on any item in their store!Don't forget to take the GutPersonal Quiz to find out exactly which supplements are best for your unique situation! Join the Mind Your Hormones Community to connect more with me & other members of this community!Come hang out with me on Instagram: @corinneangealicaFree Facebook group: Mind Your Hormones Podcast CommunityEmail Fam: Click here to get weekly emails from meMind Your Hormones Instagram: @mindyourhormones.podcast

Your baby's birth day is right around the corner and you want to be prepared. There are so many birth education methods out there. How do you know which one will be the best fit for you? I've taken the uncertainty and guesswork out of it all and created a quick and easy guide leading you through a high-level overview of the 5 most popular courses out there (including a few other ones that are gaining popularity). You'll find helpful resources at the end of each section to point you in the right direction so that you can dive deeper into any specific method. Wishing you a confidently calm birthing day! Learn more about the childbirth education method/courses highlighted in this episode:   Learn more at the official Bradley Method website Learn more at the Hypnobabies website Learn more at the  HypnoBirthing website Learn more at the Lamaze website Grab your Free PDF listing ten popular childbirth classes/courses here if you'd like to find more class/course options. Or Take the 2-minute childbirth personality quiz to find out which one of the five courses covered in today's episode might be right for you.

Rachel is a pediatric dentist who owns her own practice in Pensacola, Florida. She fought for an empowering second birth experience even with an initial diagnosis of complete placenta previa. When her placenta thankfully moved, Rachel was cleared to go for her VBAC and she was all in!Rachel drove six hours to be able to birth with the provider she knew would best support her VBAC. With her doula and supportive family by her side, Rachel achieved the beautiful birth she envisioned. Additional LinksHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsThe VBAC Link Facebook CommunityFull Transcript under Episode DetailsMeagan: Women of strength, you are listening to The VBAC Link and I cannot wait for today's story. Reading this story, there are so many twists. Not even twists I should say, but factors to this story. We have our friend Rachel telling it from Florida so welcome, Rachel. Rachel: Thank you so much. I'm so, so honored to be on this podcast. I can't believe I'm actually getting to share this amazing journey with you guys so thank you for having me. Meagan: We are honored that you are here with us. Yeah. I feel like there are quite a few things within your story. Things like baby's position, placenta previa which we are going to talk a lot about at the end, even dental stuff, close duration, so there are a lot of things where I feel like people can relate to this story. Review of the WeekI will read a review and then we will get right into your beautiful story. Today's reviewer is haley222222. It says, “I can't recommend enough. I found this podcast shortly after my C-section in 2019 with my first and it has helped me so much. My doctor had told me that I was only going to be able to have four children because I was going to have C-sections from here on out. This podcast opened my eyes to the possibilities I didn't have a clue about and I had options.” Oh, I just scrolled, and okay. Here we go. It says, “I was able to find providers that I trusted and who actually believed in me. I prepared for my VBAC and unfortunately, my first VBAC was a stillborn at 26 weeks, second baby boy in October of 2022.” So sorry to hear that, Haley. It says, “Although it was heartbreaking, it was truly an amazing experience and I can't wait to have another vaginal birth hopefully with a better outcome and a baby we can bring home. I am pregnant with my third now and I'm relistening to all of the episodes. I am so excited to do this. I am in the process of hiring a doula and we will be taking a birth course this time around. Thank you so much for creating this podcast and I'm so grateful for all that I have learned.” Well, Haley, thank you so much. Again, my condolences to you on your second and congrats on your third, and thank you so much for sharing your review. Rachel's StoriesMeagan: Okay, we have our friend Rachel. Like I said earlier, she is from Florida. So you are a dentist and you have your own clinic, is this right?Rachel: Yes. I am a pediatric dentist. I only work on children. We have a private practice in Pensacola, Florida which is the panhandle of Florida. It's lower Alabama, kind of LA but it's on that end of the spectrum, not south Florida. Meagan: Awesome. That is so exciting. So, so exciting. Rachel: Thank you. Meagan: Well, thank you so much for being with us. I would love to turn the time over to you to share this story and then at the end, we'll get into that placenta previa and some dental stuff. Rachel: I know, who would have thought that dentistry could be related to C-sections? Meagan: Who would have thought? Really, though. Rachel: I know. It's all related. Meagan: We never talk about it so I'm excited too. Rachel: Well, I guess I'll just get excited about my children journey. Again, I'm just so thankful that I get to talk on this podcast. I listen to you guys every single day when I was preparing for a VBAC and Meagan, what you're doing is changing so many people's lives. Like we talked about, I'm sure recording a podcast can get a little crazy like with any job that we do, but you really are making such a difference in so many people's lives so I really thank you for that. Meagan: Oh, thank you. Thank you. Rachel: Yes. So okay, my children journey I guess what you could say started in Gainesville. My husband and I were living in Gainesville. He was finishing up an orthodontic residency at that time and I was working as a pediatric dentist. I had just finished residency and I was working at a private practice. We became pregnant with our first baby. They said I had a subchorionic hematoma around 7 weeks and said, “Don't worry.” It's a pretty common thing I think. Meagan: It is. Rachel: I came back for a follow-up ultrasound anyway around 10 weeks or so and no heartbeat. We had a miscarriage. They gave me two options, either the misoprostol pill to pass the baby or the D&C.Meagan: Cytotec. Rachel: Yeah, or the D&C. After talking to a lot of people, I just decided to have the D&C. It seemed less emotionally scarring. Anyway, so we did that. Right around that time, the day before surgery, the whole COVID thing in 2020 started and they said that for some reason, dentists were considered non-essential so everything was shut down for the whole month of April. Meagan: What?!Rachel: I had never not worked my whole life. This was the most time I had ever had off ever so it was crazy. I was not working. I had scheduled the D&C. That morning, I had a 99-degree fever or something. My OB in Gainesville was amazing. The whole hospital staff was like, “Oh my gosh. She might have COVID. We can't do the surgery.” Yeah, so crazy. My OB had to vouch for me to say that I didn't have COVID and that we could still do the D&C anyway. I'm pretty sure I was the last elective surgery to have done and then after the date, literally I think it was March 20th, and the day after, they stopped doing elective surgeries and stuff. I was super thankful for that. It's Dr. Erin in Gainesville and she was just awesome. We had a miscarriage. It was a super tough time for me and my husband. I just remember praying and asking God to comfort us because we are Christians and I just really believe that God is close to the brokenhearted. The Bible says, “He's near to the brokenhearted.” It's still hard though because he's not here to comfort you physically. I just remember I was praying and there was this dove that came to our house and lived in our backyard. It was so crazy. For several weeks, he just made a nest on the ground.Meagan: That just gave me the chills. Rachel: It is. I'm telling you, I prayed so hard. He can comfort you but he's not going to give you a hug or something. I don't know. Do you know what I mean? So literally this dove came and lived in our yard. That dove was there. I'm not even kidding you. The day that I found out I was pregnant, the dove just left. We were like, “Where did that dove go? He was living in our yard and now he's not there.” That was the day I found out we were pregnant with our second baby, or our first baby. Meagan: Uh-uh. Wow. Rachel: It was so insane. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Rachel: Yes. That was the first crazy thing. I had wanted a puppy after the miscarriage and we had a really small courtyard so my husband was like, “Well, if we get a puppy, I'm getting a monkey.” I'm like, “No.” I was like, “Well if you really do want a monkey, I can look into finding us a monkey if you'll let me have a puppy.” He's like, “Okay, deal.” Well, he knows not to put anything past me after that because I found a monkey and we literally have a little squirrel monkey. His name is Rocko and we have a Maltipoo whose name is Remi. So the week after we got our monkey, that's when we found out we were pregnant again. I was like, “Now we have a monkey and this puppy and now we're going to have a baby.” That's how life goes. If you know me, that's just how my life goes. It's just like, the more fun, the better. Anyway, so I was pregnant with the second one. I also had a subchorionic hematoma in the beginning and Dr. Erin was like, “Okay, I know I told you not to worry about it last time but seriously it's usually not a big deal.” But you know, you're still worried because you have the same thinking. Meagan: Yeah, trigger back a little bit. Rachel: Exactly. So I was just a little worried about that, but I kept pressing forward. So then fast forward later, everything is healthy. Six months into the pregnancy, I found out that we got a great opportunity to move back to Pensacola which is where I'm from. It's about six hours away from Gainesville. It's near my home town. My parents live here. A pediatric dentist, Dr. Stu Bonnin was selling his dental practice in Pensacola so we decided to merge together and transition. I went there. I was probably about seven months pregnant when we moved to Pensacola. I was starting up. I'm seven months pregnant. I'm starting brand new seeing all of these patients I'm just getting to know. My husband started an orthodontic practice next door which is a dream come true. We have always wanted to do this. The doors opened up to where it could happen. Timing sometimes seems crazy but it just happened that way. I mean, I remember we moved here on December 24, 2020, so Christmas Eve. U-hauls are a lot cheaper then by the way. Our family had COVID so we weren't going to go see them anyway. I remember waking up on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day morning and I was sleeping on an air mattress. We had just bought our house and moved everything in. I'm like, “Wow. What a whirlwind. This is crazy.” So we moved halfway through. I'm a new business owner. So then I started seeing patients at about eight months pregnant. I'm trying to establish rapport with my new patients. I just decided it was in their best interest to work up until my due date. I worked up until my due date. At this point, I had no knowledge of birthing a baby at all which is my fault. I should have researched everything but there was just a lot going on. Meagan: Yeah. Don't put too much pressure on yourself there. Rachel: Knowing what I know now–Meagan: You had a lot of juggling pieces. Rachel: I know. Plus I was like, “I don't want to know how the baby gets here. I just want to know what to do after it gets here,” so I did a lot of Taking Cara Babies, reading how to get them to sleep through the night. I really wanted to breastfeed so I was focused on what to do when the baby gets here. Meagan: Which also is something that a lot of the time we forget to do. Rachel: I know. I know. It's all hard. So I worked up until my due date. I was expecting to be two weeks late for some reason because I was two weeks late as a baby. My husband was two weeks late and we were both first babies. I'm like, “It's going to be fine. I'll probably just be a little late.” A week passed and I had found an OB here. They did the BPP thing, the biophysical profile. Everything had been healthy. Nothing was out of the ordinary. She started talking about inducing me because I had borderline low amniotic fluid. That's the reason they gave me. So I guess amniotic fluid level from my understanding can be anywhere from 5 centimeters to 25 centimeters and mine was a 7. So she's like, “It's borderline low. The baby's not in distress but the older your placenta gets, the more likely that you'll have a stillbirth or you can have babies born with cerebral palsy and complications.”Meagan: Big words, very big words. Rachel: Yeah. I'm like, “Oh my gosh, well I don't want that.” I trust the doctor. I'm a doctor. I feel like I look out for people's best interests. I mean, I know I just deal with baby teeth but I truly want the best for my patients so I know she was probably recommending the same thing. All of that is not untrue, but anyways. Knowing what I know now, I'm just like, “What in the world?” She recommended that I be induced because of the borderline low amniotic fluid and that the longer time passes by, the increased chance of stillbirth. Because I had done zero birth education, I had nothing to really guide my decision-making process and my husband wasn't there because it was all COVID stuff. He couldn't come to any of the appointments so I was making these decisions on my own. I was just like, “Okay. We'll get induced. That's fine.” I only had a month off for maternity leave anyways, so I'm like, “Okay. It'll probably work out that the baby's born more on time.” Meagan: That you'll have some time. Rachel: Yeah, exactly. The day before, I just had this really bad feeling. I called the doctor's office and I was like, “Hey, is there any way we can postpone the induction?” I was really nervous. They were like, “No. This is the only time. We don't recommend that. This is the best thing.” I'm like, “Okay.” I got to the hospital. I started on, is it Cervadil?Meagan: Yeah, Cervadil. Rachel: The insertion pill thing. Meagan: So the pill is Cytotec and then there's the tampon-looking thing and that's Cervadil. Rachel: Okay. I think that might have been what that was. So yeah. I did that. I got to 2 centimeters dilated and they started the Pitocin. So then after the Pitocin, it was a gentle induction. The doctor I went to I guess is known for gentle inductions so that was good. I got to 2 centimeters dilated. Our daughter's name is Heidi. Her heart rate started dropping even this early on. I was only 2 centimeters dilated. Every time they turned the Pitocin up, it would drop. I was just like, “Just take me off of everything. Let's just wait.” The OB came in and she's like, “We've already had nonreassuring fetal heart rates.” I hope I'm using the correct words but I think that's what it is. Meagan: Correct. Rachel: It's just not looking good so we would recommend some kind of intervention at this point. I was like, “What about an epidural?” She was like, “Maybe you could use an epidural. It would help you relax and just speed things along.” So I got an epidural and then Heidi's heart rate dropped again. This just kept happening and I will never forget. There was a younger nurse. The doctor wasn't there. It was 2:00 AM and she came walking in the room. She said, “Hey, so the doctor just told us that we need to prep you for a C-section.” I'm just like, “What? A C-section? Excuse me? No one told me this was a possibility.” I had never even researched what that was. I never even knew that was a possibility. Meagan: A lot of us don't. Rachel: I mean, I'm stupid for not realizing that is a possibility, but at the same time, you're not planning on it. It's just an unplanned surgery. Meagan: Yeah. We go in thinking we're just going to have this baby which we do have a baby but we just don't envision it that way. Rachel: I know. I just truly wanted what was best for my baby. Meagan: Absolutely. Rachel: If it meant a C-section to save her life, then obviously that's what I would do but I was realizing this cascade of interventions was leading from one thing to another thing to another thing and I just was so upset. The OB got there and finally, my husband was like, “Whoa. Okay. What is going on here?” He talked to her and he was like, “Let's just take her off of everything and see how her heart rate is.” We literally asked her. We were like, “Listen, if you think our baby is going to lose oxygen or something dangerous where it's going to save her life to do a C-section, we will do a C-section, but if she is okay and we can work through–” the nurses were changing my position and the heart rate would get better. Sometimes I think the cord can just get compressed or things like that. She literally looked at us. I was really upset. I don't even know what I said. I was just really upset. But she looked at us and she was like, “Okay, yeah. The heart rate looks great. You're doing great. I'm okay with that. Let's just give it a little bit longer.” It was probably another 12 hours that we had done that. Long story short, the same thing happened again and after she gave me time, and at that point, I think I had progressed to 6 centimeters. I was like, “Okay, we're going to have this baby. This is looking good.” Even the nurse said that it was looking good. I think the final thing that happened is that I started running a fever and then when I ran a fever, the heart rate shot up and it was super high. Yeah, she was tachycardic. I'm like, “Yeah, she is not looking good.” At this point, it's been 72 hours. I mean, I have so many fluids. I've been on an IV. So we were like, “Okay, we really need to do this.” I was kind of expecting it at that point even though I was super upset and super sad. I was just kind of waving my little white flag. We did what we could and they prepped me for a C-section. It was the craziest thing I've ever experienced because everything went really well with the C-section. The OB was great with the C-section. All of the team was really fast. I kept saying, “I can still feel some pressure. Give me some more medicine. More, more, more.” I was so numb that my intercostal muscles were numb all the way up into my chest so it was kind of hard to breathe. I knew it was just because my muscles were numb so I was okay with it. It was so crazy because I was so happy. I heard my daughter cry so I knew she was healthy. I knew she was there. It was the best moment ever but at the same time, you're sad. Everybody that has talked on this podcast, you know the feeling of where you're so happy. Your baby is here. You're healthy. There could be way worse other things, but at the same time, it's just that this was not what I was expecting. It's crazy. Anyway, she had to go to the NICU because there was fluid in her lungs so she had to have help with oxygen and then she had to get IV antibiotics because there was suspected chorioamnionitis. Meagan: Because of the fever? Rachel: Yeah, because of the fever. So it wasn't proven, but they go ahead and put the baby on antibiotics before the results get back from pathology because it takes a while so they want to go ahead and get them on antibiotics just in case. It came back and it wasn't chorio so she had unnecessary antibiotics. But I get it. You have to have certain protocols in place. So she had to have that. She was in the NICU for just a couple of days. It wasn't bad. I was able to breastfeed. It was a struggle. You have to really make sure you're on a strict schedule when your baby is in the NICU. You have to go feed them and pump especially when your milk is coming in. So that was hard but we were able to do the breastfeeding which is good. Oh, Heidi had a lot of donor milk in the NICU because it was good that they gave her donor milk. I always joke around. I'm like, “She's going to have the best immune system because of all of the donor milk that she got.” Side note, whoever donates breastmilk, you guys are amazing. I just cannot believe that is a thing, so thank you to whoever donated breastmilk.Fast forward to the follow-up, everything is looking good after the C-section. Heidi is doing great. I'm so happy. I wanted to share this. I don't know if a lot of people have ever experienced this but I talked to my provider. I mean, I really liked her other than she suggested the induction. I just really wasn't that on board but she was like, “Yeah. In the future, you will definitely be a candidate for a VBAC.” But then I got this letter in the mail. I'm just going to read it. It says, “Dear Rachel, The patient/physician relationship is important in providing quality care. I feel your unacceptable behavior toward me and the hospital staff as well as your unwillingness to follow my recommendations for your safety and the safety of your baby has jeopardized our relationship. Therefore, this letter serves to notify you that I will not continue to be your provider.”Meagan: What?Rachel: I was so, so sad because I thought I followed her recommendation. She thinks I put my baby at jeopardy. If she thought my baby was at jeopardy, she should have told me that I should have had the C-section earlier. I just was so sad. I, as a physician, I'm not a physician but I'm a dentist and all of my patients, I try to give them both sides to everything. Not everybody is as informed as I am about teeth. Duh, we all don't know. That's why you go to a doctor for advice. Meagan: That's why you go to a specialist. Rachel: I try to give everybody two sides. I try to inform them and then they make the decision. I don't ever want to force someone into doing something that they don't want to do but also if someone doesn't take my recommendation, I'm not going to say, “Okay, you're dismissed from my practice.” I get that some people just don't feel comfortable treating certain people which is fine. I'm not bitter about that but I was super floored that she would dismiss me as a patient because I didn't take her recommendation to get a C-section in the first place. Meagan: You did and then you had a conversation and she said, “Yeah, I'm totally fine with it. Let's keep going.”Rachel: I had a doula with me, Ashley Andrews, she is amazing. She is my prayer warrior doula. She even said, “I don't think you're out of line, Rachel. I'm really confused.” Meagan: I'm sorry. Rachel: Anyways, not to harp on that but it was really sad. It was really for the best because I started looking at other providers anyway because I knew I wanted another baby. Okay, so here's the good part of the story. Dun, dun, dun. Nine months later, we found out we were having another baby. This time, it was a boy so I found a different provider in Pensacola that was okay with VBAC. It's really hard surprisingly to find someone that is super on board. It really is up to you to do the research and all of that. We have doctors. People think doctors are there to give you a magic pill and everything is solved. Doctors can't do anything if you don't make an effort on your end too. I feel like that's why there is so much diabetes and all of these things because you have to do some kind of work on your end too to educate yourself and realize that you can't just go to a doctor and expect them to fix all of your problems. I realized that and I'm like, “Okay, that's in every situation. I have to become educated myself.” I found you guys. I listened to your VBAC podcast literally every single day at lunch and I would cry on my lunch break. I'm such a loser. Meagan: You are not. These stories are amazing. Rachel: I would listen to these stories and I would just cry. I'm like, “Wow. This is so awesome.” My husband, I love him. He's so sweet. He's like, “You guys should make a podcast for husbands on how to deal with their wives when they have decided that they are going to have a VBAC,” because he's like, “All right, I've already accepted all of this stuff. It's fine.” Anyways, at 20 weeks I was diagnosed with complete placenta previa, not just partial. The placenta is completely covering your cervix. My OB here in Pensacola, the new one, was like, “It's highly unlikely that this is going to move. It's complete. It's very rare.” He started talking about placenta accreta and how sometimes it can even grow into the C-section scar and grow out into your bladder and stuff. I'm like, “Whoa.” I was so sad. I'm like, “Y'all, okay. I guess I'll just have another C-section. This is fine.” But then I was like, “Okay. God, you said in the Bible.” Matthew 17:20 says, “If you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there' and it will move and nothing will be impossible.” I'm like, “God if you can move mountains, I know that you can move this placenta. I know that nothing is impossible for you.” I just started praying. In the meantime, my sister who lives in Jacksonville had this great practice that helped her with her delivery. Full Circle Women's Care, I highly recommend. I also talked to a friend, Saundra Fetner, who had a VBAC with them. I talked to her about it and she was like, “Yes. You need to go there.” I had a Zoom conference or a telemedicine conference with Dr. Adams. She is the owner there, the OB there. She was like, “Okay, yeah. We even have some missionaries that will be in Africa and then fly here and deliver their baby here and go back.” She was like, “If you want to deliver here, that would be fine with me. You just see your provider in Pensacola and then when it gets time, you just make arrangements to stay in Jacksonville until you have the baby.” Meagan: Dual care. Rachel: Yeah, exactly. I was like, “If something crazy happens in Pensacola, then I have the provider here.” I talked to my provider here and he was completely okay with it. He was like, “Well, with the placenta previa, you might want to try to rent a private jet so you can get there really quick.” I'm like, “Okay, that's not going to happen but whatever.” He was okay with it. I didn't care. Dr. Adams by the way, just has such passion for what she does. If you don't have passion for what you do and you don't enjoy it, why are you doing it? She actually had a C-section with her first baby and she's an OB. So she's like, “I understand how medicine is there if you need it, but sometimes you need to let your body do what it was created to do.” I was like, “Oh my gosh, yes girl. Preach, preach. I'm going to come see you. I don't care that I have to drive six hours. I'm going to come here.” I scheduled a follow-up. Granted, it had only been two weeks since I had been diagnosed with placenta previa. Coming to the follow-up, I had another ultrasound and all of that at Full Circle Women's Care. My first appointment, my sister went with me and we were like, “Let's just not say anything. Let's not say that I had placenta previa. Let's just see what they say.” The ultrasound tech looked at everything and she was like, “Yeah, everything looks great. Your baby's healthy. We just might need to get one more little position of the head when you come back.” I'm like, “What?” So then I'm like, “Okay, well you don't see placenta previa or anything going on?” She's like, “No. The placenta is way over here. This is the placenta here. This is your cervix here. There's no placenta previa.” I'm like, “Oh my gosh.” My mom had been praying. My dad, my mother-in-law, Angie. I'm like, “Y'all, you will not guess what just happened.” I sound so crazy but I'm like, “God moved my placenta.” I even had Ashley, my doula, had her Sunday School group. She was like, “Girl, we've been praying for you.” I know that's not the story with everybody, but it's just so crazy. I really do believe that and I'm just so thankful. I had my appointment with Carol, one of the midwives and she's like, “Yeah, everything looks great. You're due around September. We're going to do everything we can to help you have a successful VBAC.” I'm like, “Okay, Carol. You promise I don't have placenta previa?” She's like, “What are you talking about sweetie? Your placenta is far away from the cervix.” I couldn't believe that it was the case. I had this regained energy and excitement. We were back on track. Let's do it. Then a couple of weeks later, I met with Dr. Adams and it's a group so you meet with different people because you don't know who's going to deliver you. Everyone I saw, I'm like, “If you deliver me, I don't care. Everyone is great. Fantastic.” I met with Dr. Adams and she's like, “You know, there's this thing that you can read.” It is a recommendation for TOLAC or how to have a successful VBAC and how to ripen your cervix. She had all of the guidelines there. She was like, “Have you been following the guidelines? Have you been doing your daily squats to open up your pelvis and doing the specific Spinning Babies exercises to get the baby in the right position?” I'm like, “Yeah, I've been doing my squats.” She's like, “Let me see you do 20 squats right now.” This is at my OB appointment. I'm like, “Okay.” She's holding my hands and doing squats with me at the appointment talking to me about what I need to do. Meagan: Oh my gosh, I love that. Rachel: I'm just like, “This is awesome.” Anyway, she really practices what she preaches. She's like, “All right, then let me see you do some squats.” So I did that. Also, going back so for Valentine's Day of last year, instead of giving me chocolates and stuff, my husband printed off the recommendations that they gave me. I'm like, “You don't care about this as much as I do. I wish you could just know what I'm going through.” He's like, “Okay, Rachel.” He printed off the guidelines of how to have a successful VBAC and he highlighted all of the things. This is on the OB's website, How to Have Your Cervix Ripened Before Birth. These were the things you needed to do. At 20 weeks, drink red raspberry leaf tea. At 36 weeks, do acupressure, acupuncture, and chiropractic care. At 37 weeks, start taking evening primrose oil. At 38 weeks, start using clary sage oil and do birth stimulation, sex, and all of that stuff. At 39 weeks, you can do membrane stripping. He's just so funny because he even bought all of these things. He's like, “Are you drinking red raspberry leaf tea? Is it 36 weeks yet because that's when you need to start going to a chiropractor.” That was awesome. I was just doing everything. I wasn't perfect. I tried to eat healthier and all of that stuff. You do what you can but I work full time. At the end of the day, we're not perfect but I tried to do all of those things. I did that. I found a doula in Jacksonville and she helped me through Hypnobabies. It is super interesting because your mind really can help you control pain. It's so crazy. It really can. I even want to look into this for my patients. I think it would be so cool if you could learn to hypnotize. Dentistry is scary, especially for kids so I'm always looking for new things to try. Okay, so we go to Jacksonville. I was due September 29th. I took a week off early from work. We closed the dental clinic down. I had a dentist that's working for me too, Dr. Bonnin and he's awesome. Thank you for working for me on maternity leave. I closed for a week. We just went to Jacksonville. We had a little mini vacay. We took Heidi. I feel like it was so much just to spend time with me and Edwin with my daughter for a straight week in a really long time and focus just on our family. We have had a lot going on up until then so it was a nice little breather away. Meagan: That's such a beautiful way to spend the end of pregnancy. Rachel: I know. Meagan: Sometimes in the end of pregnancy, we're so stressed. We're getting a lot of pressure from the outside world or from whoever. Why haven't you had your baby yet or why haven't you been induced? So it's nice to just be with your family and create this space going into it. Rachel: Yeah, it really was. It was such a blessing that we were able to do that. I didn't have to worry about, “Okay, let me do the last-minute touches on the nursery.” It was just relaxing. So I'm like, “Okay, for sure this baby is going to come soon.” I'm super relaxed. I saw a shooting star. I'm like, “All right. It's going to happen.” It didn't. A week passed so I'm already a week later and then I think I was 41 and a few days. I had the BPP again and they start doing the monitor thing. They just do the heart rate monitor. Meagan: Oh, a non-stress test? Rachel: A non-stress test just to make sure everything is good. They kept saying, “Everything is good but we are going to keep seeing you back.” They weren't letting me go very long. Meagan: It's very standard doing NSTs at 41 weeks, very standard. Rachel: Yeah, okay. They were just doing all of the things to make sure everything was good. But Dr. Adams was like, “I know you want to go into spontaneous labor on your own. If you're not by 42 weeks,” and she was one to wait up until 42 weeks to do an induction. She's like, “We'll do a super gentle induction. We'll start with breast stimulation. We won't even go to Pitocin or anything.” I didn't even want to hear the word induction so I'm like, “Okay.” But she was great because she allowed me all the way up until two weeks to schedule the induction whereas for some people, it just depends on the hospital scheduling and that's where modern medicine is sad because you have to do the schedule and your body's not on a schedule. Your due date is just a guess date. I mean, Jane, the doula in Jacksonville is like, “So what's your guess date?” because it is. We try to do what we can but at the end of the day, sometimes you just have to let nature take its course. Anyway, so I talked to Dr. Adams and everything was good. I was trying to go into labor on my own. My best friend from dental school, Jackie, actually had premature contractions at 32 weeks so her doctor was telling her all of the things she needs to do to not go into labor and I was trying to do all of the things that they told her the opposite. I'm like, “Okay, what did your doctor say? Okay, I need to do that.” It just goes to show you that getting babies on this earth is just hard no matter what way you look at it but if you're educated, it's a lot easier. Hurricane Ian was brewing up and we had to move from our hotel because our hotel was on the beach and they were like, “We are going to have to evacuate the hotel because a hurricane is coming.” I'm like, “Oh, this baby is for sure coming. It's a hurricane.” It didn't. The hurricane came and went. I even drank midwives' brew and all of that stuff. I was 41 and 5 days or something like that. Our daughter, Heidi, got really sick. She contracted something while we were there. She was throwing up. She couldn't keep anything down. My husband was getting a little bit antsy. My husband was like, “I have a lot of stuff I need to work on at home. Why don't you just stay here with your sister? I'll take Heidi home and I'll come back when you go into labor.” I was like, “Okay, sounds good.” He took Heidi home. She actually couldn't keep anything down when he got home. Home was in Pensacola so it was six hours away from Jacksonville. He drove home and she actually had to be admitted to the ER because she had to get an IV and all of that stuff. I'm just like, “Oh my gosh. My daughter is in the hospital.” I feel guilty because I've been focusing on myself and making sure I don't have a C-section meanwhile my daughter is at home in the ER. I was thinking about, “I'm just going to go home. I'll just be induced again.” You just want what's best for your babies. That's why we're here. That's why we try to avoid C-sections when we can but have them when it's going to save our babies' lives. We just want what's best for our babies so I just felt so guilty that I wasn't there with her. But anyway, she was fine. I finally went to Dr. Adams again. It was the first time I had a check. She said, “Okay, you're 2-3 centimeters dilated.” I'm like, “Why am I not in labor right now?” I was 2 centimeters dilated at the hospital a couple of hours in. So anyways, she's like, “You are super favorable. You are 2 centimeters dilated. You're at whatever plus station where your baby is really low.” She's like, “I'm surprised you're not in labor right now. All you're waiting on is for this baby to say, ‘Okay, it's time for me to come into the world.'” I mean, we just don't know. That's why medicine still has some mysteries to it. You just don't know what puts someone into labor. Anyways, she did a membrane strip which was great. Membrane stripping, is that what it's called? Membrane sweep. Meagan: Yeah, a stripping or a sweep. Rachel: She's like, “Okay.” We had the induction scheduled for that Thursday and it was a Monday. She's like, “Rachel, you're going to have this baby. You're not going to have to be induced. We have it scheduled just in case but you are going to go into labor on your own.” I'm like, “I really hope you're right.” I went home. My sister and I went to a coffee shop and we just relaxed for a little bit and then we went home. We were going to see a movie. My brother lives in Jacksonville too. Me, my sister and my brother were going to see a movie together. He happened to be off work. It was crazy. We're getting ready and then I start having some Braxton Hicks stuff but some contractions. Anyways, it really progressed and it started getting uncomfortable. I didn't know. I thought, “Okay.” We contacted our doula. We met her at the hospital. She was like, “Do y'all really think y'all should go to the hospital?” I was having trouble breathing through everything. I was like, “I don't know. It might just be Braxton Hicks.” We got to the hospital. I couldn't breathe through it very well so then Jane, our doula, was like, “Okay. Let's just go to the hospital and get checked.” I'm getting scared. “No, they're going to trap me. They're going to make me stay and I'm going to have to get a C-section again.” She's like, “Rachel, no. That's not true.” I've got my birth posse with me. We go in. They checked me and I was only at a 4. I'm like, “What the heck? I'm such a woosie. I'm only at a 4?” I'm like, “Let's just go back home.” Carol was there, the midwife that I really had a good connection with and she's like, “Rachel, I really don't recommend you going home. I really think that things are progressing quickly. You should stay here and just relax.” Then I talked to my husband too. Meagan: Make your drive. Rachel: As soon as I got admitted to the hospital, Heidi actually got dismissed so he's like, “We've got two babies heading out.” I'm like, “You're such a nerd.” He's like, “Rachel, stay at the hospital. You're being crazy. Just relax. Do your Hypnobabies thing and I'll be there.” I did that and it was crazy. As soon as I zoned everybody out and put my little headphones on– Meagan: And acclimated to the space.Rachel: Yeah, exactly. I had time to get acclimated. I was like, “Okay. This is going to be okay. This baby is coming.” I just relaxed and then things started getting a little cray cray during transition. Yeah. Now I know what people talk about with that. Also, I didn't have an epidural because I'm like, “No. They slow things down. I do not want to get an epidural.” Yeah. So that was great and then the transition thing. Okay, things started getting really serious. My sister was there with me because my husband couldn't be there. I had my sister and a doula. I was like, “Sarah, why did you talk me into this? This is so stupid. I can't believe I'm doing this. This is the dumbest thing ever.” Then Jane was like, “Okay, I think she's ready.” Meagan: Usually when there is intense talk and doubt kicks in, it's like, “I think it's happening right now.” Rachel: Exactly. So then Carol came in. She checked me. I was 9.5. I had a little cervical lip and I was like, “Oh my gosh. No. I cannot believe it.” I was just like, “How in the world?” Carol was like, “Okay, I think your husband is almost here so we can wait to pull the cervical lip out of the way.” I'm like, “No. We are not doing that!” I'm not waiting. He should have been here a little bit ago.Anyway, so we did that. I'm about to start pushing. My brother was there at the hospital. He met my husband out in the hospital parking lot and they were literally sprinting. They were like, “Okay, your baby is about to be born. Here you are.” Luke led him to the exact room. Edwin comes in. He has a backward baseball cap on. I'm like, “They're going to think you're a crazy person coming in here.” They're like, “Is this the baby daddy? Okay, come in here.” I was pushing and I'm like, “Oh my gosh. The baby is going to get stuck,” because I've heard stories that the baby is going to get stuck at 10 centimeters. Carol was so amazing. By the way, she has a British accent. She's from Africa and she's the coolest person ever. She's like, “Rachel, you are doing it. You're about to have this baby.” I'm like, “No way. Are you serious?” At that moment, she's like, “Rachel, you're having this baby. This is happening. It's too late to turn back. He's not getting stuck.” I'm crying. I'm like, “This is the best feeling ever.” He was born. He's healthy. He's here. I'm healthy and this is how things are supposed to happen. It was the most amazing thing ever. You just can't explain it. I'm just like, “Oh my gosh.” I just can't believe that it actually happened and everything was great. The births were such polar opposites. No one's birth is less important than the other. I don't ever want my daughter to think, “Oh my gosh. I was a failure birth, and then baby John–”. His name is John Edwin Richard the Third and then John was a regular birth. It's not about that. It's just how God can take our pain and our failures that we have and turn beauty from ashes. That is what happened. This is how it's supposed to be. It was the best feeling in the whole world. I was just so thankful. I can't believe my husband made it there. I didn't think he was but he did. Meagan: So close. Rachel: Yeah. I was like, “Oh my gosh.” I do want to say that I'm not trying to diss C-sections. You need it when you can but who you have as a provider is the most important thing. I trusted them and I knew that if she had recommended that I needed a C-section I was going to say, “Okay. I know that I've tried everything I can. I'm going to trust you guys.” She even said, “The position of the baby is the most important thing.” Baby has to be in the right position to do that. So anyway, it was just the most beautiful thing ever. I'm just so thankful for everything. Meagan: Oh my goodness. It's such a beautiful story honestly from all of it, from the dove in the yard flying away to moving and driving six hours away. Those are hard decisions sometimes to make and sometimes dual care is really hard too because sometimes you will have providers disagreeing with the other provider so that's really hard. But so beautiful. I could see the emotion and I could hear the emotion in your face. You're so happy. It sounds just so beautiful. Rachel: I know. It's amazing. It's the best. Meagan: Well, thank you. I do want to talk about that placenta previa because it's interesting to go from being diagnosed with complete previa to so far away. That's a miracle. It's so crazy but a lot of the time, we hear diagnoses of full placenta previa so I wanted to talk about what that is. You mentioned accreta too but previa is where it covers the cervix. To diagnose complete previa, it should be directly over the innermost side, so the OS. Directly over the canal of the uterus which is the cervix. So with pregnancies 16 weeks or more when this is happening, sometimes they're diagnosed with a low-lying. Low lying is when it's really, really close or the edge is less than 20 millimeters away from the OS, the cervix. 20 millimeters is 1 inch or 2 centimeters. Usually, most providers when it's 20 or more are totally okay and comfortable with that. One of the interesting things, and I'm curious how you had yours, but a transvaginal ultrasound to diagnose the placenta previa has a way higher chance of it actually being accurate than an abdominal. Did you have an abdominal?Rachel: It was transvaginal, yes. Meagan: It was. Rachel: Yes. On both, yeah. Meagan: See? Look at that. That's so amazing. If someone is diagnosing you with previa on the abdominal outside, you can also request a transvaginal because that can bring higher accuracy. If we get diagnosed and there are placenta issues within the pregnancy, then sometimes they will suggest a 34-36 week induction so that's another thing and then if there aren't any complications, sometimes it's 36-37. So just for those who have been diagnosed. I also want to mention that a lot of the time when we have low lying or something like that, it does move throughout pregnancy. Rachel: Yeah, and usually it does take a lot longer than that. I did so much research too. So yeah, just like what you were saying, and if it does migrate upwards, it never will migrate back down because your uterus is growing up, not down. It all is about where the placenta attaches to the uterus. It's this tissue and you can't help it. It's when the baby is conceived, that it attaches. I had a D&C and a C-section which can increase the risk of it. I had a friend that was diagnosed with it and she even had some bleeding. She almost had to have a C-section but it had migrated more than what did you say it was? Meagan: 20 millimeters, 1 inch, or 2 centimeters. Rachel: Yeah, she said it was 3 centimeters so her provider was letting her go. I'm not saying that everybody's just miraculously moves all of the time but the chances are pretty good that it's going to move. If your provider says that you need a C-section, just maybe give it some time. Everybody is different. Meagan: Yeah. Well, yeah. I think it's just something that a lot of the time we don't talk about, placenta previa. It can be really scary when you hear at 20 weeks, “Hey, you've got this possible placenta previa or low lying and you might have to have a C-section,” so at 20 weeks we're hearing, “I might have to have a C-section,” and it immediately starts making our wheels turn. Rachel: It does. It's crazy. Meagan: And then last of all, I really want to talk about teeth. Rachel: Yeah, teeth. Meagan: Our pearly whites. So obviously, you're a pediatric dentist and one of the interesting things that you have found that we didn't realize is that C-sections can affect enamel. Rachel: Yes, it can. If you think about it, at about six months in utero is when the baby teeth are starting to develop. Anything that happens, if the mom gets a fever or you don't have the certain Vitamins A, C, D, or E which are really important for your teeth to mineralize and you don't have the certain minerals, then your teeth can be a little bit weaker when you are born. All of these things in pregnancy affect the development of your teeth. Right at birth is when your adult molars, so you have four adult molars in the back and the front four on the top and the front four on the bottom. Right at birth is when those molars start to calcify. If you have, and I'm not saying that a C-section increases but it's more of a correlation. It's not a cause and effect. It's a correlation. Meagan: It's a correlation, yeah. Rachel: Yes. That's observed if you have anything that happens right around the time of birth. With a C-section, sometimes the baby might be a little bit earlier. When you are born, you have things that happened at birth. The baby might be a little bit earlier. A C-section brings the baby earlier. Sometimes those things can affect the mineralization process of those six-year-old molars and the front four top teeth and the front four bottom teeth. It's called molar incisor hypomineralization. If you have something like that, it's just a really good idea to see a pediatric dentist. You can put sealants on it. Sealants can protect the adult molars from getting cavities and things like that to strengthen it. Also, being on antibiotics right at birth–Meagan: That's just what I was going to ask. What about antibiotics?Rachel: Yeah. I'm not getting into the nitty-gritty of everything, but certain antibiotics are worse than others. Usually, the C-section has a higher chance of having to be in the NICU and taking antibiotics. That can affect the mineralization process of your molars. That in turn can cause them to be weaker which puts them at higher risk for cavities. It's just so crazy that even a C-section can affect your teeth which is my small little bubble of medicine that I do. Even that can have a role. It's not like if you have to have a C-section, you're like, “Oh my gosh. My kid is going to have cavities forever.” It just puts you more at risk for that just like someone could be more at risk of being overweight but there are things that you can do through your diet and all of that to keep yourself healthy. It's not an automatic thing. There are things you can do. Don't drink juice and eat sugar. There are things you can do to keep cavities from forming. But yeah, at around that time is when everything is forming. It's so crazy. Meagan: It's just good to know.Rachel: It is. It is. Meagan: Even if you've had a vaginal birth with a lot of antibiotics from Group B Strep or something like that, it's good to just be aware. Rachel: Yes. It's not necessarily with a C-section, but with antibiotics and stuff. Meagan: Awesome. Rachel: Oh my gosh. Awesome. You guys are the best. I love you. Meagan: We love you back and we are so honored that you wanted to share your story and touch the world around you.ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In this episode, we are speaking with Kerry Tuschhoff who is the Founder and Director of Hypnobabies Childbirth Hypnosis, Kerry Tuschhoff is a nationally renowned speaker and writer on a wide range of pregnancy and childbirth concerns.  Her subjects include fertility, prenatal and childbirth choices, informed consent issues, health and low-risk status concerns, comfort in childbirth, the power of birth language and midwifery advocacy.  As a childbirth educator since 1989, a doula and hypnotherapist, Kerry has developed many educational programs for pregnant people, birthers, medical and childbirth professionals and hypnotherapists. These efforts have become immensely popular and have started a chain-reaction of interest to change how we give birth, how newborns are cared for, and how natural childbirth is perceived by the general public and the medical community. Kerry created a very comprehensive childbirth program of her own; Hypnobabies Childbirth Education. This unique program has trained hundreds of thousands of students to use medical-grade hypnosis techniques and give birth in a much easier and more comfortable way Intro: 00:24 What is hypnosis?  02:05 How is hypnosis used in childbirth?   04:39 Who chooses to use hypno-babies?   11:15   Does using hypno-baibes for childbirth distance you from your child's connection during birth? 12:47  What is hypno-babies eyes, open childbirth hypnosis all about? 14:07 What are other uses for hypnosis in pregnancy and postpartum? 16:19 Last words 19:08 Four Go-To Questions 20:24: 1. Who and what inspires you? 2. What is something you wished you knew when you were younger? 3. What's the essential part of your daily routine?  4. Best advice you've ever received? Connect With Kerry: Website: www.Hypnobabies.com  Store: www.Hypnobabies-Store.com Twitter: www.Twitter.com/Hypnobabies  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hypnobabiesofficial_/  Facebook: www.Facebook.com/Hypnobabies  The Francy Life - Not Your Momma's Podcast Available Here:  Apple Spotify  Amazon Music Check Cristina Francy Out:  Blog: https://cristinafrancy.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mrs.cfrancy/  Liketoknowit: https://www.shopltk.com/explore/cristina.francy Email for collaborations: cristinarfrancy@gmail.com    ABOUT THE FRANCY LIFE- NOT YOUR MOMMA'S PODCAST I'm here to help empower women and pull back the curtain on expert's advice for every area of our lives. Through a series of interviews, we will tackle everything from eating for wellness, the best advice for littles, fashion and style, and everything in between. Get ready to get real. This is NOT YOUR MOMMA'S PODCAST. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/thefrancylife/support

In this episode we will have an opportunity to speak with Kerry Tuschhoff, the Founder and Director of Hypnobabies, about how to create a smoother labor and delivery. Additionally, we'll talk about reframing the entire way we view pregnancy and birth moving away from fear and into empowerment and trust.  For more information please visit: https://www.hypnobabies.com/ Current and past editions of the Pathways to Family Wellness magazine can be found at: https://pathwaystofamilywellness.org/

Achieving your VBAC is an accomplishment worth celebrating, but it's also important to hold space for processing the difficult moments.Pat joins us today to share how she birthed both of her babies over the age of 40 as well as how she found a supportive team to go for her VBAC.She shares the importance of paying attention to your feelings when choosing a provider even if everyone around you feels differently. Pat experienced some traumatic events during her VBAC which left her feeling grateful for the outcome desired but unexpectedly having to grieve the loss of what she thought would be a dreamy and empowering experience.Additional LinksPat's WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode DetailsMeagan: Hey guys, this is Meagan. I'm so excited for another amazing story. We are actually going to be talking about something that I don't feel like we talk about a ton and it's going to be pregnancy after 40. Even really 36, right? I feel like in the medical world, 36 is old. I'm doing air quotes because it's such an annoying thing to be but we are going to talk about that. Pregnancy after 40 and what that looks like and how that may feel for someone. We have our friend, Pat, today from L.A. She's going to be sharing her stories. She did have a VBAC and we talk about this often on social media and things like that where people may have a vaginal birth after a Cesarean and it's the most healing, amazing, beautiful experience and then sometimes it's not. So I'm excited to hear from Pat today and hear more about her experience. Review of the WeekBut of course, we have a Review of the Week so I'm going to make sure to get into that before Pat starts sharing her story. Just a fair reminder, if you guys have a chance, if you would please leave us a review, we love your reviews as you know. We talk about it all the time but really, they make us smile so much and we love reading them on the podcast. So push pause and go leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. This specific review is from Sarah. She doesn't have a subject on it but she says, “I am a birth and postpartum doula who is always on the search for a birthy podcast to listen to in my car. I was so excited when I found The VBAC Link so I could listen to these amazing stories from women all around the world who reached their goals through becoming educated thanks to Meagan and Julie. I recently certified with The VBAC Link as well and I'm impressed by the thorough delivery with which their knowledge was shared in the training. I'm super excited to move into the next chapter of my career and I'm so thrilled to do so with an amazing community and support.” Sarah, I love it. Thank you so much. It is so awesome to have you as one of our VBAC doulas. Birth workers, if you didn't know out there, we actually have a birth worker course on how to support your VBAC clients because again, we talk about it. It shouldn't be anything more than just someone going in to have a baby, but with vaginal birth after Cesarean or a Cesarean I should say, and wanting to go for vaginal birth after Cesarean, there are hurdles that a lot of clients have to jump through. It's so nice to learn how to support them so we have a certification course and we add you to our doula list and share you with the world. So parents, if you are looking for a VBAC doula, go to thevbaclink.com/findadoula and see if there's a doula near you. Pat's StoriesMeagan: Okay, Pat. I can't wait. Thank you so much for taking the time today to be with us. Pat: No, thank you for inviting me. I'm so excited. This podcast has been such a big and helpful thing to prepare for my VBAC so thank you for that.Meagan: Absolutely, well I'd love to turn the time over to you. Pat: Yeah, I am Spanish so that's why I have a weird accent but I've been living in L.A. for the last ten years with my husband. I have two kids now. One is two and a half and the other one is going to turn ten months in just a little bit. My journey started really late or later than other people here in the states. I always knew I wanted to be a mother but then I saw my friends having kids and saw what that really means to your life, so for a little bit, I was trying to decide whether I could really take on motherhood or not. I knew that if I were to be a mother, it would be in my late thirties. I really wanted to push it which makes sense now because if I hadn't done that then, I would have different kids. I really believe in destiny and these kids were meant to be for me. So I think I'm happy with that. With that also came a lot of stress from the doctors. All this talk about the extra risks and how difficult or impossible it was going to be to get pregnant at 39. My journey, thank God, wasn't that hard. I had an IUD, a copper IUD, and I took it out in January 2019. For the first three months, I didn't get pregnant, but I also had weird pain and my period was really strange. I had an ultrasound and they saw that actually, I had an IUD inside of me even though they took it out. Meagan: What?!Pat: Yeah. It was so bizarre. I don't want to get into details because it will take us the whole hour, but what happened was that someone along the way, and I had an IUD since I was 20 because I had DBT and I couldn't take hormones so that was the way I chose to go. In those years, someone forgot to take out the old IUD and just pushed a new IUD inside of me. Meagan: Oh my land. Pat: It was crazy to discover that. So anyway, they took it out and three months after that, I was pregnant. That was October-November I think of 2019. So it was fairly quick for my age and everything. I was thrilled. My pregnancy also was super healthy. I did have certain things here and there but nothing that a younger person wouldn't have. I barely had any morning sickness or anything. I did have a couple of weird symptoms. One of them was palpitations. I didn't know that I had them and then towards the middle of my pregnancy, I started having not fainting, but lightheaded episodes where I really had to lay down in the street when I was walking my dog around several times We discovered that it was something regarding my breakfast really, so I had a thing for toast with peanut butter in the morning and I guess the way my blood sugar was doing something weird and I was really almost fainting in the street. Once a doctor told me to actually change that for protein and to have protein first in the morning. Immediately, that disappeared. Other than that, everything was great. I was feeling super beautiful with my pregnant belly and I was going for an unmedicated birth. I was really preparing mentally and physically for it. I did Hypnobabies. I was really in my head. I was obsessed with it as a friend of mine recommended me to be if I wanted to achieve it. I was doing all of the work. Everything was going great. Of course, we get into 2020. COVID comes in. My husband was able to still come into the 20-week ultrasound which was awesome, but after that I was alone and there was a lot of stress added to the pregnancy. I feel like it was toward the end of my third trimester that I don't know why, but my mind started to lose its balance. All of the fear about motherhood came crashing down and the last few weeks, they were full of excitement but also fear. Everybody was like, “Are you so excited?” I was like, “Yeah, but I'm also so scared.” I felt guilty. I couldn't talk to anyone about that. Because I was scared, people would think I am a bad mother or I'm going to be a bad mother. Anyways, we didn't hire a doula which is important in this birth story because of COVID but I guess I didn't know that I was going to need her so much. The doctor told me towards the end of the pregnancy that he was OP but that he could still move. I would feel the baby. He didn't have space. I could feel that my belly was so tight. I didn't think that he was going to move. I didn't know anything about helping him position more than a couple of exercises I saw on Spinning Babies. When the birth started, it was after my 40-week appointment. I wasn't very dilated. My doctor checked me and I was 1 centimeter and then she said that I wouldn't probably go into labor for a few days. But then the next day, I woke up with contractions. They were light and just like period cramps every ten minutes. So I was excited but I also was in denial. “This cannot be. I'm only 1 centimeter,” which didn't matter at all. I've learned that now. During the whole day, they went like that. They progressed a little bit in how painful they were, but they were ten minutes apart. Nothing was really happening so I just kept going. I had heard of prodromal labor, so I thought that maybe this was not it. By the time I went to bed, they were 7-10 minutes apart, but they were not super painful but painful enough that I couldn't sleep during the whole night. Meagan: So tired, I'm sure. Pat: So tired. This was a Friday. So Saturday, it just kept going the same. Actually, the contractions got a little bit weirder. Instead of coming down and getting a pardon, they were all over like seven minutes to ten, five, and they were getting more and more intense as I would go but still, nothing was happening. Basically that night, I tried everything because I called my doctor and she confirmed that it could be prodromal labor. I had the feeling that it wasn't, that it was labor that was not progressing because nothing would stop it, not any bath, nothing. So that night, I took some Benadryl and could sleep between contractions, but it was a few minutes here and there. But the next day, it was Sunday. I was so tired and then up to this point, I had been trying to move forward with this pregnancy and this birth. I would do exercises but at this point, I was scared because I thought, “I am going to get caught up in this level of pain for two more weeks and I just don't think I can take it.” I tried to slow it down. I wanted to wait basically. I was also losing my mind a little bit. It was my third day with very little sleep. I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know how to cope with contractions, or how to breathe properly. This is where a doula, I think, would have made a difference. Obviously, my baby was not coming down, and just having someone with me that would have helped me position the baby better, I think, would have made a difference but it was what it was at this point. So another night without sleeping and we are on Monday now. The doctor tried to convince me to go in for a membrane sweep, but I really couldn't get out of the house, so again, I lived in the bath. I was in the bath, in the bath, in the bath. Finally, my water broke a little bit. There was a gush of water but it was yellow. That's how I could see it. I didn't know what that meant, but obviously, it meant that there was some meconium. So my doctor told me that since my water broke, she felt comfortable waiting until the next day, but I had to be in the hospital at 7:00 AM on Tuesday. By that night, I think it was 1:00 in the morning when the pain was so bad and my mind was so out of it. I was even regretting being pregnant at this point. Just get me out of here. So basically, I told my husband, “Let's just go because I don't know what this is. I want an unmedicated birth but if this is nothing then I really need help because I just cannot go on like this anymore.” So we got there. The triage was horrible. It was hours until I was checked in. Discovering that I was only 3 centimeters was crushing, to say the least. Once I was there, I knew that an epidural would help me sleep and that's what I needed. So by that time, they still did walking epidurals which I don't know why they call it that because they don't let you walk anyways. Meagan: It's just a lighter epidural essentially. Pat: I know, but they should change the name. Definitely. So that really helped me. I slept for an hour and when my doctor came and checked me in the morning, I was 5 centimeters. I was at 0 station. Basically, the doctor said because of the circumstances, she thought that I had to be around a 6 by the time she came back later on. I thought it was achievable. I had a whole morning. By that time also, I had developed a lot of pain in my left side and in my right side. The right was a sciatica type of pain and the left was just my lower back. It was hurting a lot like my kidney type of thing. I was drinking water and drinking water and I just couldn't get satiated. I kept laboring in bed. They didn't mention the OP baby. They didn't offer a peanut ball. Nothing, so I was there just surviving in bed. They wouldn't let me get up, so I would sneak in between visits from the nurse and get up with my husband a little bit because I would feel my legs and everything. I needed to get up because it was so excruciating, the pain in my back when I was laying down. The doctor came at 3:00 PM and I was again 5 centimeters. Her fear of infection was clearly high. She was scared for me even if nothing really was happening. At that point, my water really, really, really broke and there was this green, thick layer. It was full of meconium coming out of me which I knew was only a matter of watching it. It didn't mean that I could not have a vaginal birth, but it was a little concerning. The doctor convinced me to take Pitocin at that point. I started that at 3:30 and the pain in my sides increased. It was more and more difficult to try to stay in bed. A few hours later, I think it was around 9:00 PM, I had blood pressure issues. Everything was starting to pile up. There was a little bit of protein in my urine, but I had been given so many different infusions of liquids that my doctor chose to change one first before giving me my other medicine to see if that worked. That worked, but by that time, for someone who didn't want any interventions, I was full of tubes everywhere to my uterus with a catheter, it was just really bizarre. During that time, I also had a resident come in. She was the chief of residents and she was one of the sources of my trauma really in the hospital because she was really disrespectful to me not only in her comments. When she saw me in pain, she said, “Oh, you wanted a natural birth so I don't know what you expected,” and things like that. Also, she came and checked me and she really hurt me. I asked her to stop and instead of stopping, she pushed harder inside of me. Meagan: Oh!Pat: I didn't even know how to react to that because she ignored me and she kept doing it even harder. I felt so violated by that and that just stayed with me. Meagan: I'm so sorry. Pat: Yeah, it was crazy. I continued laboring and the blood pressure resolved. The kidney was failing. They said it was damaged. That was why the protein was coming out on the tests. But with that change of liquids that they gave me, apparently, it just made it better. The pain was still there, but the protein disappeared. My blood pressure came down and that was really it. Around 10:30, following my notes, apparently, the baby's heart dropped. It lasted more than eight minutes, but it wasn't a big drop. That was also my first experience with everyone coming into the room screaming. This is another thing. I saw this chief resident talking to my husband about what was happening to me but no one was talking to me. They were yelling at me, “On all fours!”That was after I got up and they saw me up, so they were also yelling at me, “What did you do? This is all you. Go back to bed.” I was so scared. Yeah, but nobody was explaining to me what was happening. Luckily, they got that under control and then they explained to me what had happened. They told me to lay on my side really, really still. On that side, it really, really hurt almost like torture. A really well-designed torture. They had stopped Pitocin and they restarted it an hour later. Everything was going well, but again, after a couple of hours, there was another deceleration. We are now at 4:00 AM so it is 24 hours after I had gotten to the hospital. This one was shorter, but it was deeper. I was only 6 centimeters when I had it. I couldn't even picture myself having a baby frozen in this position. “You cannot do this. You cannot do that.” How am I going to birth a baby then? I was really sad, but I didn't see any other way out. I had my cry with my husband and then we just went to the OR. It wasn't an emergency, so we had a minute to process. It was something that needed to be done. My doctor was great at talking to me. This was the first time that she actually came to the hospital after 24 hours, so once she was there, I didn't have to deal with the chief resident. She is always really respectful and she always talks to me about everything before making a decision so that was great and helped me calm. The surgery went great, but I was so out of it. For example, when they were going to pull out the baby, they lowered the curtain but I couldn't see. I couldn't even say it. I didn't see it. I couldn't see and I said, “Okay,” then I turned and looked at my husband and at his face. He was looking at our baby being born which also was beautiful, but I was really, really out of it. I think it took them 15 minutes or so to bring the baby. They also raised him, but I only saw the legs. I remember him crying and just realizing that I actually had a baby. It's a real baby and not a fish that was inside of my belly. It was pretty great. Then they wheeled me into recovery and I was in a lot of pain, but my husband recalls actually that when they brought the baby, he actually said, “I thought you were dying but then they brought the baby and put him on your chest and you were fine.” I didn't remember that but I keep that as a memory because I thought that was one of the most beautiful things that happened. He also crawled to my breast which was really great. Meagan: Yay. That's really cool because a lot of times with Cesareans, they don't allow that to happen so that's really cool. Pat: Right. No, they were really good at giving me the baby as soon as they could. I also held him in the OR but I wasn't feeling great and then they took him back. But then this nurse came and without saying anything. I'm in this beautiful moment. The baby latches. I'm just enjoying it and this woman starts punching me in the uterus basically. That's how it felt. Massaging me and I screamed like I've never screamed in my life. It hurt so much. I asked her. Again, she didn't say anything. I asked her, “What are you doing?” She said, “I have to do this because it's either this or you're going to bleed to death.” I said, “But I'm not hemorrhaging or anything. That was just another thing that really impacted me. Meagan: That sticks in your mind, yeah. Pat: Exactly. The flashbacks come afterward. It might not sound like a big deal, but it is a big deal. It's a really big deal. We went to the room and after that, everything was beautiful getting to know our baby and naming him because we knew that he was a boy but we had different names. He was great. He was drinking. He was wetting the diaper but then because of all of the liquids that I got, first of all, he was 8 pounds, 12 ounces when he was born but almost a pound of that or half a pound of that was liquid. He was so swollen. Meagan: Yes. I want to talk about that because a lot of people don't realize that's a thing. We have long labors and we receive a lot of fluid or we receive a lot of antibiotics and all of these fluids, it can actually make our baby bigger than they actually are. So yeah. It's crazy. You have to have an 8-pound baby come out, but then they're 7 pounds. It's scary because it looks like they've dropped so much weight and then you're not thinking that you are feeding your baby right and they're not getting enough milk when actually, they're getting rid of that excess fluid. Pat: That was part of the problem. It's crazy that they don't know it. Meagan: They don't talk about that. Pat: The problem was that he was losing so much weight because he was getting out of the liquids but in the process because apparently, all of the liquids threw his pH off so he was dehydrated. He was eating normally but he was dehydrated. After another day, his diaper was dry. I told the nurse, “I don't think this is normal.” She was like, “No, no. This is normal. Don't worry.” I was like, “Okay. I guess maybe babies are like that.” But then we had a great lactation consultant and she noticed that he was breathing really fast. They had to take him to the NICU just because of dehydration. It was another setback on the happy ending type of thing. But luckily, he only spent the night and a morning there and he was okay. We took him home. This was already day number four in the hospital. From then on, he thrived. We had to do for a little bit, I think it's called a [inaudible] feeding thing just to make sure he was gaining weight but it was really obvious from the get-go that my milk was enough for him and he was good with it so after a week, we weaned him out of the bottle and he was only breastfeeding, gaining weight, and everything was great. Yeah, I had a lot of emotions but my postpartum was really good. I think that has a lot to do with my placenta encapsulation but I will never know I guess. Meagan: I know. I love placenta encapsulation myself. So yeah. Pat: So yeah, second baby. I remember a nurse in my room. I was actually getting wheeled to the OR and I had a nurse talking to me, “Don't worry, honey. You can have a VBAC.” I was like, “I don't know about this VBAC, but I'm telling you that I'm not having more kids.” So that VBAC thing stuck with me. I started having baby fever really early on like six months postpartum. I thought my baby was so cute, I thought, “I want another baby.” My husband was a little resistant but I knew that I was going to convince him so in the meantime, I started listening to The VBAC Link Podcast. It was a great source of learning. I've always loved birth stories, but this was really specific. Listening to so many Cesarean stories, I could also understand better what happened to me and maybe make a plan for why I didn't want it to repeat again in the future. When I got pregnant, I got pregnant on the first try. I just want to say it again because I was 42 at the time. I was 41.5. I turned 42 when I was pregnant. Age doesn't have to be an impediment to having kids. Every person is a person. Statistics don't represent you. I want people to have hope for that. This pregnancy went also really well. The symptoms were a little bit worse. I didn't have extreme nausea or anything, but it was a little bit worse. Not too bad, but a little bit worse. I hear that happens with second babies and third. At this moment, what I was more focused on was my VBAC. Of course, I wanted to go unmedicated too, but I really wanted to do everything possible to have a vaginal birth. I hired this doula. I live in L.A. and there is this famous doctor who everyone goes to. I thought, “I love my doctor, but she already was talking about how she follows a certain procedure at the hospital.” At 39 weeks, she recommended being induced and all of that stuff. I just thought, “She's great, but I really want to have the best chance. If they call this guy the king of VBACs, shouldn't I go with him?” I went with him and he was really hopeful about my VBAC. He has a weird personality. He's really nice but at the same time, he is just not everyone's cup of tea and not my cup of tea in a lot of different things. I had a little bit of a red flag for certain things that he was trying to force on me. When I would tell him, “I don't want this or I don't want that,” he would just get mad basically and try to push it. I was going away from having to convince my doctors of what I wanted for my birth so I landed on a guy who was supposed to be– it felt to me at the time– the only way of having a VBAC and having to have the same fights with him, it felt really confusing. I think it's really important to know that because a provider might be VBAC-supportive, it doesn't mean that they are not also intervention-supportive which is what happened with this guy basically. I continued with him because I was really scared to not have my VBAC unless I was with him. Meagan: Right, because everybody around is like, “Go here.” Pat: Yeah, and here's another thing. I could find maybe one or two medium reviews, but all of the reviews about him in all of the VBAC groups were like, “No, this is a great guy.” Meagan: This is the person, yeah. Pat: People don't want to tell bad stories. They don't want to talk badly about the doctor then what are you doing then? You are just protecting this doctor. You are not protecting women or people that are birthing. Meagan: Well, and what's hard too is even though one provider may be very VBAC-supportive and be very cohesive with that patient, it doesn't mean that he or she is going to be an amazing VBAC-supportive doctor, but may not still fit the same desires. They can be VBAC-supportive but they might not be the right provider for everybody else. Pat: Yes, yes. I wish I could have read a little bit more about him because then just talking to other women in the group privately, they would say, “Yeah,” and most of the people had a good experience with him, but I wish I would have been able to read or find these reviews because that maybe would have made a difference in trying to find another VBAC-supportive provider. But I stuck with him. Everything went well. I had no problems that could have been related to age or problems at all. It was a normal, healthy pregnancy. I had been really careful of my positioning during the pregnancy so baby wouldn't be OP but he was OP too. By that time, we didn't know he was a he. I knew that it doesn't matter he's OP. It's another baby. It's another birth. I have a doula now. If I get stuck in another 4-day or 5-day birth, this person is going to help me get through it. I believe I can do it. I just need help. That's it. Meagan: Well, and it would probably shorten it because they would probably know and have some tools that would hopefully help. Pat: Which she did because my story, with this second baby went really similarly. I actually was 39 weeks pregnant this time. I don't know if it was all of the cleaning I did or my two-year-old, my one-year-old then had this huge tantrum, one that he never had. He cried in my arms for two hours and I felt my first contraction when I was with him. From there, it started the same way. Really low-key, a cramping feeling that went a little bit up during the day but nothing was happening either. But then at night, I tried to sleep and I was in so much pain. I was having really huge contractions. We are still cosleeping basically. My toddler was there. My husband was there and my body didn't feel free enough to move things forward. My husband had me labor during the night, but in the morning, it went down. The contractions, I didn't even time but in the morning they were back to 7-10 minutes and less painful but still really intense. I remember I kept cleaning. I did a set of exercises to get things going from Spinning Babies. Meagan: Three Sisters? Pat: The [inaudible] one. Meagan: Oh, yes. I know what you're talking about. Pat: There were a bunch of exercises you could do so I did all of them. Here's another thing that I recommend to people who have had trauma in their first births. I thought, “I've got it.” I thought, “I have processed this. I am okay.” I even wrote a script about witches. It's named The Resident. I thought I had processed it but I didn't so when things were really starting to get similar to my first birth, my mind got out of whack. I lost it and I remember crying to my sister-in-law, “This is the same as with Liam. It's going to be five days. I'm going to end with a Cesarean.” Totally negativity that I didn't need at that moment. Meagan: You spiraled. Yeah. I did that too. Pat: I spiraled, yeah. So you really need to process your first birth before going into a VBAC. But I could feel that things were different. I felt the body recharge that I never had. I could feel my hips hurting a lot which meant something was happening down there so that kept me hopeful. My husband told me, “Listen. I saw you with our first. This is different. You are so much more advanced right now. You never got to this point.” Meagan: But in your mind, you're relating to what you know. Pat: I know and also your mind is not a rational mind in that moment. It is full of fear and you've been told that you cannot do this, so why would you think you can do it? That's where your mind goes in that moment. My doula came finally that afternoon and she had me breathe through the contractions which I think was key because from there on, I could relax with them and I got in the bath and everything felt more controlled. One of the things that she actually had me do for the last couple of months before the birth was sleeping with two or three pillows in between my legs as if it was a peanut ball or a peanut ball. I had a bunch of pillows. I feel like that was key too because my hips are not too wide for how tall I am. I feel that keeping my hips open really helped this time. That night, the second night, I went to bed with a Benadryl again and I woke up at 1:00 or so. I was in a lot of pain. Really big contractions that you couldn't sleep through. Again, I went to the bath and the counterpressure really helped. It really, really helped. It was one of the things that helped me the most. I had the HypnoBabies in my first pregnancy, but it never got to really help me at all. It's really funny just singing a song in my mind. It was Yellow by Coldplay. Not even loud in my mind. Every contraction and that was it. I could go through them. It was just crazy. Meagan: I did the same thing with Believe by Whitney Houston. Pat: It was a random song also. Meagan: “If you believe,” and singing it in my head, and then I ended up making a slideshow video with that song. It just connected to me. Pat: That's so cute. Yeah. It was magic. I think it was 3:00 or 4:00 AM in the morning. It was intense enough that I thought, “If I keep going then I might have him in the car.” I would feel different things in my hips. I could feel a little bit of the movement going down. It was like, “No, no. This is different.” I'm now going to get there and I'm going to be just 3 centimeters. If not, I don't understand birth at all. So we went to the hospital. It was 40 minutes away, 30 with traffic. It was bad but not horrible because of Coldplay. When I got there, it was amazing because I had a really strong contraction and the nurses just put me in a room. Meagan: You didn't have to be in triage for 3 hours. Pat: If you go to the hospital, just have a really, really, really big contraction so you don't have to wait there for 3 hours. So yeah, I got checked. I of course didn't want a resident around me so I had a midwife team. The midwife checked me and I was 10 centimeters she said but I had a bulging bag so I was 8 centimeters. Meagan: Yeah. Sometimes a bag can overstretch the cervix and then the bag breaks and the cervix relaxes. It seems like they check and they're like, “We don't feel any cervix,” but then the bag goes away and they're like, “Oh. There's some cervix left.” So that's probably what happened. Pat: I was not even defeated because I thought, “I am still 8 centimeters. I never made it through 6.” Meagan: Huge. Huge. Yeah. Pat: I was so proud of myself, but I must say that when I got there, I was walking into the room and my doctor came in. He looked so tired. He had two births before me. What he said was, “Don't tell me you are in labor.” I'm like, “I am in labor.” You could tell he was not there. He was tired which I understand, but I still feel like you have to be professional. You cannot tell that to a birthing woman. That's where the problems with him started. It didn't feel good but I forgot about it. I had my midwife and I was mostly laboring with her. He would just come in and out. I thought I was doing it. I didn't want an epidural. I was laboring in the room. I was really tired, but the baby also was really high like -3. He was not down but it didn't worry me too much. I kept going. I kept going for two or three hours. In between, my doctor came and checked me but there was no progress. At some point, I guess I wasn't coping as well. I think I was just getting into transition because in between contractions, I was like, “Ohh,” like kind of fainting. I felt like my body needed rest. Two days laboring with this kid felt much more than five days laboring with my other kid, so I don't know. My doula suddenly said, “You know, I know you want an unmedicated birth, but I just don't think you are going to progress if you don't take the epidural.” I understand she said that because she was scared for me not to have my VBAC but also, I feel like it was early in the game. Why don't we try other things before that? But it was true because basically what I thought– my husband though was my huge supporter. He was like, “No, no, no. You're doing great. You can do this. You can do this.” He still tells me nowadays, “If you could have heard me and not the doula–”. I was like, “Supposedly, doulas have so much experience–”. Meagan: Sometimes, an epidural is a great tool. There's this spot where we get in labor where we're tense and we're not really letting our body go, so an epidural can come into great play and allow us to finish out that cervix and that dilation and that process, but yeah. If you didn't want one then there are other things you could do. Different positioning and coping and breathing and water. Pat: I think that's what she saw. She saw that I was too tense and that was not going to go anywhere. So I said, “Okay. I'm going to wait half an hour and if I did not progress, then I will consider it. It would be the right thing. It makes sense.” This was almost four hours from the moment we got there. When we got checked, I hadn't progressed and I accepted the epidural. Meagan: Did your water break? Was it bulging and then they broke it or was it still bulging? Pat: The doctor broke it a little bit but just enough so that it would just come out a little bit and come down, but he didn't break my waters completely. They actually broke when I was laboring in the room. It was really funny because it was gallons of clear water which was a different experience. It was like, “This is so clear. This is so clear.” But it was gallons and gallons of water coming out of my body. It was crazy. But yeah. After the epidural, I rested. At that point, they didn't have the option of the walking epidural anymore so it was a normal epidural but I could still feel my legs and a little bit of pressure. It was good but I could rest. I couldn't sleep but I could rest. Two or three hours after that, I was already at a 9.5 and I had a cervical lip. Oh, in between that also– this is an important piece of information. These are things I want to forget so I forget to tell them. The doctor came in. He was coming in and out. This was probably at 12:30 or 1:00. He said, “Well, I have a dinner at 5:30 so we need to start pushing at 2:00.” I'm like, “Okay.” And he left. I didn't know if it was a joke or if it was true but it turns out that he really had a family dinner at 5:30. It turns out that also I was ready and I was almost ready to push, but I was fully dilated by 1:30. That lip really went away. The midwife put me on my side and it was great. She was amazing. I wish everything would have happened just with her. I started pushing. The pushing phase was really weird to me because I was expecting it to feel good and they were like, “Okay, you're ready to push. Do you want to push?” I was like, “I guess.” Meagan: Disconnected. Pat: Disconnected. Totally disconnected like, “What am I doing here? I don't understand what's happening.” I pushed for an hour or so. I asked for the mirror to see what was happening. That was cool but also got me a little bit discouraged because I could see the little advancement with the push. When I was more advanced or ready, they called the doctor. The baby was doing fine. He had a couple of moments where his heartbeat was taking a little longer to come back, so I could see my midwife calling the doctor, but he wasn't concerned so we kept going. I think it was one hour into pushing that he came and turned on the lights, propped me up, changed the way I was pushing, and just sat in front of me with a boring face and said, “Okay, let's see.” It was just not the kind of person you wanted there. Meagan: Impersonal, yeah. Pat: Yeah, really impersonal. He was also yelling at people like the nurses. He was in a really bad mood. Yeah. Everything was getting weird. I already had this weird feeling of, “What is happening?” I don't know. I cannot really describe that but it was this fight or flight mode that you get when you're birthing that makes your baby come. That's what started happening to me. The thing is that I kept pushing and pushing and pushing and little by little, there was some progress. At some point though, he started to mention how he wanted me to get a little bit more of the epidural, but I talked to my doula and to my husband. I really wanted to feel what was happening, but then he kept going on about how if I had the epidural it was going to be better because he was going to have to stitch me and then, “Oh, that hurts a lot,” and then this and this and this. He kept going into my head. I really regret this, but I let him convince me and I got a little bit more of the epidural. At that point, all of the pressure disappeared. I could feel but yet I couldn't feel as much. After that, when the epidural was already in, he said, “You know what? The head of the baby is coming in and out, in and out, in and out. What if I take a vacuum and I use in only just to hold the head of the baby in the same space in between contractions?” I had heard this on a birth story. It worked for the mother. This was two and a half hours into pushing so I said, “Yes, yes. Let's do it,” because I could see in the mirror that that was true and that was happening. He put the vacuum on and they closed– I don't know. I closed my eyes and when I opened them because everyone was telling me, “Open them. Open your eyes. The baby is coming.” He's basically yanking the baby out of me. This is all how I felt that it happened. I'm sure the other side is different. This is where my problem comes with this VBAC and it's just that I felt I was tricked into using an intervention that I didn't want. The baby was born at 4:45 basically. Meagan: Right before dinner. Pat: The other thing is that he had the baby. The baby was crying. It was a boy which was super exciting to discover. He was pink and one of the other things I had told him was that I wanted that baby on my stomach. One of the things I missed in my other birth was the feeling of this high when they put the baby on your chest and he knew. I had told him so many times. He had the baby and he kept cleaning him up, cleaning him up, cleaning him up. I have a file of pictures where I'm holding out my hands to grab him and I retract them until I just snatched the baby out of him basically. Meagan: Give me my baby. Give me my baby. Pat: Give me my baby. Give me my baby. I breathed out this moment of rage and I could be present with my baby. I welcomed him and everything was great. From that moment on, nobody took him away from me. I held him and he felt so familiar. I felt like our family was complete. At least that feeling wasn't taken away from me, just the joy of welcoming my baby. Everything in the postpartum was great, but I really struggled. I struggled a little bit. I don't think it was depression but the baby blues were really hard on me for 2-3 weeks. I couldn't stop crying all the time. I would remember my VBAC and I felt really guilty. I even remember the midwife, “You got your VBAC. You got your VBAC.” It was like, “Yeah, I got my VBAC.” I'm glad. I didn't want a C-section, but this is not what I wanted. I feel so robbed. I feel robbed and it's so bad of a feeling to have. Meagan: Yeah. You did. You got your VBAC. Everybody on the outside is like, “Yay. This is what you wanted,” but it was very traumatic getting there. It was really positive and then it took a spin and things happened to you that reflected not as positively. We've talked about this back when Julie and I were together too. You can be grateful for your vaginal birth after a Cesarean. You can be grateful for your CBAC, your Cesarean birth after Cesarean. You can be grateful for your birth, but that doesn't mean you can't grieve another experience or be upset. You don't have to have one without the other. They can go together. Unfortunately, you have this space now where you're like, “Yeah, I did, but I reflect differently than everyone might think.”Pat: Yeah. I feel like all the work that I did, he just took it away from me because he was in a rush and it wasn't necessary. Meagan: Yeah, I'm so sorry. Pat: I'm processing it. You can focus on the positive things, but it's not great. Meagan: Well, congratulations on your baby boy. Pat: Thank you. Meagan: But yeah, I think that's something to note and it's so hard. We as doulas here had a client who said the same thing, “I knew I didn't want this. We went over this with you. We all went over it, but for some reason, I just went with what the doctor said.” It's so hard not to. We are in this very vulnerable space and they have this way sometimes– I'm not going to say all the time– but projecting this, “You have to make decisions right now” or “You have to do this or this scary thing will happen.” I don't think that they really realize how their speaking to us impacts us as birthing women, but it does. It does. The things they say and even like you said, he sat down and gave you a blank stare. “All right, let's see what we can do here.” Just that right there takes away from someone's space. Providers, doulas, if you are listening, anybody who is entering a birth space, please make sure that whatever is going on in your personal life, whatever is taking over at that moment, leave it at the door. I know it's hard. I know it's hard. As a doula, if there's ever a situation where I have that, I might need to call my partner because if I can't shut that off and join this beautiful space and hold space for my clients, then maybe I shouldn't be there. It's hard because these providers are just going to be there but we have to be mindful. We have to be more mindful of how we present ourselves, what comes out of our mouths, and again, the actions that are done to us because they impact us so much. So I'm sorry that that did happen and I'm sorry that along the way, you had to go back and forth in everything. I am happy for you but at the same time, I grieve with you. I feel you.I am so sorry. So sorry, but congratulations at the same time. Pat: Thank you so much. I feel like you really understand. When I'm telling this story, not everybody understands why it hurt me so much. I feel that you and your community probably will understand. Meagan: Absolutely. We understand. We hear you. We feel you. We've been there. I really appreciate you and I know you are 10 months postpartum, but we're still here. We're still here to help you heal through this journey. Pat: Thank you so much.ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

045 - Want to ENJOY labor? Or at least more enjoyable? Hypnobabies w/founder Kerry TuschhoffHey Shayla Podcast | Ep: 045 Guest: Kerry Tuschhoff, HCHI, CHt, CI @hypnobabiesofficial_ As a childbirth educator since 1989, a doula and hypnotherapist, Kerry has developed many educational programs for pregnant people, birthers, medical and childbirth professionals and hypnotherapists. Kerry created a very comprehensive childbirth program of her own; Hypnobabies Childbirth Education. CODE: HeyShaylaThank you for listening to the Hey Shayla podcast!  Here, we love to learn new things and decide what works for us and our family.. We're the moms that support instead of judge and know there are many ways to do something right.  I'd love to connect on Instagram @heyshaylaI have used Hypnobabies through two of my unmedicated births and recommend to ANYONE who is open to it. I thought it would be fun to have Kerry, the founder, on to talk about what hypnosis is, how it works, who should use it!I am an ambassador for Hypnobabies and have a discount code HEYSHAYLAXo ShayJoin the email list to be notified when episodes go live HERE!Companies I work with and am an affiliate for ALL DISCOUNT CODES ARE HEYSHAYLA unless specifiedGo to heyshayla.com/codes if a code isn't working*hypnobabies: hypnosis for labor and delivery  *California Beach Co: Travel Playpen *Expecting and Empowered: Pregnancy and Postpartum workouts*LoveBug Probiotics: Pre and postnatal probiotics*My Little Eaters: Guide to Baby Led Weaning *Kindred Bravely: Maternity Sports Bra (code: HeyShayla15) *Clearly Filtered: Filtered water bottle pitcher *TushBaby: Great “Up-Down” Baby carrier  *Iksplor: Wool base layer Let's Connect!Instagram (@heyshayla),YouTube (Hey Shayla)Website (www.heyshayla.com)Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/shop/heyshayla)**Disclaimer: Please note that some of the links here are affiliate links. Which means at no cost to you, I will earn a commission if you decide to make a purchase after clicking through the link. I only work with companies that I love, and that I think you will love.

*Trigger Warning: This episode contains sensitive discussion topics including infant loss, miscarriage, preterm delivery, and hemorrhaging.*Lizzy has a passion for all things birth and babies as reflected in her amazing 10 kiddos! Her birth stories in order are as follows: an emergency C-section, VBAC, RCS, VBAC, HBAC, VBAC, HBAC, RCS, and a twin RCS. Though Lizzy has chosen to birth differently than most, she has always made sure to do what her intuition has felt is best and what she and her husband felt was right for their family. Through the highs and lows, every decision was made from a place of peace, not fear. We want all women to feel confident in the birth decisions they make. The VBAC Link is here to provide you with the education and resources to do just that!Additional LinksHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode DetailsFull TranscriptMeagan: Hello, hello. This is still 2023. I cannot believe it. I am sitting here right now recording and we're just getting into the holiday season thinking that this is going to be airing in 2023 and it's just crazy to me. I cannot believe that 2023 is here. Today, we have quite the stories for you. And guess what? We have a special cohost and it's Paige, our transcriber, and a dear VBAC Link family member. So excited to have you with us, Paige. This story is even close to your heart because this is your family. Paige: Yes, this is my sister-in-law, Lizzy. Meagan: Yes, so exciting. You guys, I can't even tell you. I'm sitting here looking at her notes right here and she has so many stories and they're all different like, crazy, crazy different. But Paige is going to do the review and then we'll get started.Review of the WeekPaige: Yes, I am. So my review comes from an email sent to us just a few days ago which is so exciting. It's from molly and she says, “Hi there. My name is Molly Marshall and I just wanted to reach out and send a review of the pod. I've been listening for quite some time now since I had my first baby in August of 2020 via C-section. It was absolutely the opposite experience that I was expecting to have mixed with a scary pandemic. “After that, I began listening to your podcast just to hear other women's stories who had gone through similar experiences. This made me feel a lot less alone. Once we decided to try for a second baby, I began listening to the pod even more frequently on top of lots of other research and such. Just last week, on Wednesday, I welcomed my second baby boy via successful VBAC. I give so much credit to your podcast and what you're doing because it was the driving force and motivator for me to push for my VBAC and I'm so, so glad I did. It was truly a redemption story and I'm so thankful for the work you're doing. I told so many people about the podcast and I hope to be able to help any friends of mine explore VBAC too if they desire. Please don't stop sharing these stories. It means the absolute world to those of us listening. After my second birth, I just want to scream it from the rooftops that VBAC is totally possible even if feels overwhelming and out of reach. Needless to say, I love your podcast and you've changed my life. Thank you so much. -Molly” Meagan: Oh. When I saw this review come in, I got teary-eyed. I really got teary-eyed. It meant so much and I'm so happy for her and so happy for everyone who's listening. Even if it doesn't end in a VBAC or even if that decision through listening to the podcast isn't to go for a VBAC, if there's any just even slight, one tiny little thing that The VBAC Link can bring to you whether it's empowerment, education, whether it's processing something through learning, whatever it is, that just warms my heart so to hear that review, I love it. Thank you so much, Molly. As always, we're always accepting more reviews to read on the podcast. You can really submit it anyway. She submitted it through an email. You can send it to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or you can go to Google or you can go to Facebook or just send us a message on Instagram. Whatever it may be, we love your reviews. I seriously, I'm not kidding. I wish I could have had– you know the Taylor Swift TikTok thing where the mom is dancing and the kid is recording but it's really recording them? I wish I could have had that because I wish I could really portray the emotion that I was feeling reading this review. Paige: So sweet. Meagan: Oh, it was amazing. So thank you so much. Lizzy's StoriesMeagan: Hello, hello VBAC listeners. This is Meagan here. I just wanted to drop a quick trigger warning in today's episode. It does contain some details and verbiage that may be triggering or alarming to the listening ear. Okay, Lizzy. Lizzy: Hi. Meagan: Hi. Thank you so much for being with us today. I cannot wait to hear about all of your incredible births. And you guys, when I say all, I want to say that she has 10 kids. 10 kiddos. Isn't that amazing? I love it so much. I love being a mom. I don't know if I could do it with 10 kids. It takes a special person, Lizzy. You are incredible and I can't wait to hear about all of these births. Lizzy: Thank you. Perfect. Well, I guess I'll just start from the beginning. I had my first baby in December 2011 and I was horribly uneducated. I didn't even know what the birth process looked like or anything really. My husband is the oldest of 9 kids and his mom is very pro-natural birth. She had her last two babies at home with only her and her husband there and so my husband was very pro-natural birth, but we were still newly married and trying to figure out how to talk to each other. You know, have communication. So I was about 10 days overdue with my first baby. I went into a doctor's appointment and they were like, “Yeah, everything looks good but do you want to be induced? Usually, by now, women are begging me to get the baby out of them.” I was content and pretty happy, but I was like, “Oh. I guess meeting my baby might be a really cool thing,” so I was like, “Sure, let's do this.” I wanted it to be a little less invasive, but like I said, I wasn't super educated. My husband was like, “Maybe we should try to do as little as possible.” I was like, “Okay.” So we checked into the hospital the next day and they broke my water which, I remember it's like a legitimate crochet hook. They came in and opened the package and I was like, “That's a crochet hook.” They're like, “Um, it's a medical instrument.” I was like, “No, it's not. That is just a crochet hook from JoAnn's.” But anyways, so they broke my water, and then I just chilled for lots of hours and didn't have any labor. Nothing happened. So then they came in and they were like, “We're going to put you on some Pitocin to see if we can get things moving.” So they put me on Pitocin and every time I had a contraction, his heart rate started to drop. So then they got really nervous understandably and it had been lots of hours since they had broken my water and they were worried about infection. It was just the classic cascade of interventions, so we ended up doing an emergency C-section. It turns out, well, this is what we assume. I wasn't actually in the womb to know what was happening, but he had this huge dent on his forehead like he wasn't lined up in the birth canal right like his forehead just kept getting caught on my pelvis. But he was 10 pounds, 11 ounces and he was just this big baby. Then that was his birth. I had been told that nursing counted as birth control which is not true. Anyone listening, that is such a lie. Meagan: But so many people think that though. Just FYI, they really do. You're not alone out there. Lizzy: Right? So 3 months later, I was pregnant again. I remember it had been 3 months. I turned to my husband and I was like, “Did I have a period this month?” He was like, “I don't know.” And then I took a pregnancy test and I was pregnant. I was like, “Oh, there we go.” That's when I really started getting into VBACs and birthing and getting educated. I gained a lot of weight with my first pregnancy like 40-50 pounds. So with my second pregnancy, I followed the gestational diabetes diet because when I tested, I wasn't officially gestational diabetic, but I was right on the border, so I was like, “Maybe there's a margin of error and I probably am.” So I followed the diet and I maybe moderately exercised, but probably not. Mostly just dieted. And then I went into labor on my– oh no, that's right. Sorry, I have to remember. There are a lot of stories. Meagan: There are so many, yeah. Lizzy: I also did HypnoBabies last minute because I was like, “Wait a minute. I want to do this VBAC, but I have no education really.” And so I started listening to HypnoBabies and going through that whole program. Then one day, I decided to walk home from church because I was so sick and tired of having this baby in me. I was, I think, a few days overdue. For some reason, we had expected him to come early, but he just wasn't. So I powerwalked as fast as I possibly could for half a mile, three-quarters of a mile until I was so sore, I almost couldn't walk anymore. I got home and I contracted a little bit, and then it all petered out and I went to bed. I woke up the next morning and just was contracting throughout the day, just gradually building. It was the perfect labor story kind of and then that night, I was like, “Okay. It's time to go to the hospital.” We actually called my mother-in-law to come down because we wanted her to help us labor because she was so pro-birth and we just wanted an extra person in our court. My husband was so supportive. We were laboring and it just was going. Every time, I was like, “This is awful. Give me an epidural,” my husband was like, “No. It's okay. We can do this. Just keep breathing. One more contraction and then just face the next contraction.” We really worked through it together and it was a really beautiful experience. My mother-in-law was really awesome. My husband was sitting on a rolling stool while I contracted and every time I contracted, I basically just headbutted him on that rolling stool. He was trying really hard to give me counterpressure, but that's really hard on a rolling stool, so my mother-in-law just stood behind him and braced him the whole time. She didn't say anything. She just was there making sure the process could continue and it was so wonderful for my husband and I to do this really hard thing together. It was so bonding and beautiful for us that that's part of what we love most about vaginal birthing is just the relationship builder it is to be able to go through something so hard and painful together and do that. And then he came out. It was a VBAC and he was 8 pounds, 2 ounces. His was just the classic, what you read about in a textbook how a baby is born vaginally. That was awesome and we were so excited about that. We had done it and there was all of this joy and it was so happy. I healed faster and I felt better. And then I had a miscarriage pretty early on, I think 6-8 weeks. Right after the miscarriage, I got pregnant. I did not watch my diet. I did not exercise. I gained a lot of weight and finally, I was two weeks overdue. Actually, I was a week overdue and they were like, “Hey, maybe we should think about doing something.” I was like, “No.” I was seeing midwives and I was like, “I need to give it the whole two weeks. I have to know that if I wouldn't have waited a little bit longer, if it wouldn't have just happened.” I really pushed them all the way to the two weeks and then I just never went into labor.Actually, that's not true. A few days before, I had hard labor for 3-4 hours and then stopped and nothing else. Except for those couple of hours, nothing had happened. I felt nothing. Finally, I went in and we did a planned C-section. She was 10 pounds, 14 ounces. I think my body was just like, “Um, friend? I'm not sure I can do this. This is a really big baby.”There was that and then on my fourth baby, I learned my lesson and I went back to my diet and my exercising. I went into labor on my own and went to the hospital. I'm a very vocal laborer. I yell and I moan and I say mean things about the baby when I'm in transition. My midwife was getting really nervous because she had never seen me labor. She had been there for my C-section baby, but she had never seen me in active labor. She kept turning to my husband and saying, “Is this normal? Is she having a uterine rupture? How do I know what this pain level is?” My husband was like, “No, no. She's okay. This is just how she does it.” But she was super nervous. She kept pushing me to try different positions and it wasn't my favorite birth. She ended up having me lie on my side with one knee pulled up high to deliver the baby and I just didn't love that position. It wasn't terribly comfortable, but the baby came out and we had a VBAC and everything was happy. That was awesome. And then my next pregnancy was a set of twins. I had a subchorionic hemorrhage and I bled a lot. I would wake up regularly in the morning with blood stains the size of cereal boxes on my bed. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Lizzy: I would call my provider and be like, “Hey, I'm bleeding,” and they were like, “Well, as long as you don't have any cramping, you're fine. Bleeding's okay. Cramping is bad so when the two of them happen together, call us.” But I just was bleeding so much and it was so weird. I remember just feeling like these babies were going to come early. I just had this feeling. I remember counting down to viability because I was like, “Oh good. At least now, I know they can make it if I deliver.”A few days before they were born, I started passing really big clots, and then a few days later– oh, and I had gone into labor and so I went into the hospital, and by the time I got checked in and lay down and had all the cords hooked up, they were like, “You're not in labor anymore.” I felt like an idiot because I was like, “I've already had four kids. I know what labor is,” but they were like, “Make sure you've labored for at least an hour with strong contractions before you come back in.”I felt very patronized and patted on the head and sent back to bed. I just felt humiliated. I went home and I was like, “That's it. I'm not going back unless it happens for two hours because I'm not doing that again.” Getting sent home from the hospital is the worst thing ever. It's happened to me a couple of times and I just hate it. So then a few days later, I started going into labor again. I was like, “Okay.” So I drank lots of water. I lay down on my left side. I took a shower. My husband was trying to get our kids in bed because we had four other kids and they must have known something was up because they were being awful and super rowdy. So finally, we just locked them in their rooms. My husband came to check on me and I was still laboring. I was like, “You know what? It's been two hours. I think we should go.” It was actually funny. I remember going to him after about an hour of labor and being like, “Ugh, I just don't like this baby anymore. This hurts so bad. I don't want to do this anymore.” He chuckled and said, “Haha, it sounds like you're in transition.” We both laughed and then I went back to my room and kept laboring because, in my mind, there was no way you could have a baby in two hours. It just wasn't possible. I went back to my room and he finished up with the kids and then I was like, “Okay. It's time to go to the hospital.” So we called our babysitters which were these three little girls that lived across the street, these sisters that were 9, 8, and 7. They came over and they were sitting in the front room. I was like, “Okay. I need to go to the bathroom. I think I'm having some gas cramps. I'm going to see if I can work something out.” My husband knew because the same thing had happened to his mom when she felt like she needed to go to the bathroom and had a baby. He was like, “Wait. I know what this means,” so he followed me, and all of a sudden, I was like, “This is not right.” I started pushing and I was like, “Oh my goodness, something is coming out of me. Honey, what is happening?”I stood up and the baby fell out. My husband just caught him right before he hit the water.Meagan: Oh my gosh. Lizzy: But I was 23 weeks and 6 days. So he was a pound and a half. His entire body fit in my husband's hand. His head was the size of a clementine. He was just so little. I remember my husband laid down– Meagan: Way preterm. Way preterm. Lizzy: Way too early. I remember he laid me down in the shower and put the baby on my lap. We just all of a sudden were like, “Okay. What do we do now?” He was moving and it looked like he was grunting, but we couldn't really tell if he was breathing or not so we called 911. The amazing thing was as we were figuring out what to do, we just felt so peaceful. We're very religious and we just felt like God was like, “It's okay. It's okay. Now you should call an ambulance.” Meagan: Wow, I'd be like, “Ahh!”Lizzy: I know and that's what I expected, but we both took a deep breath and were like, “Okay, now let's call 911. We can do this.” So we called them and the paramedics get here. We've totally forgotten about our babysitters so these paramedics just come in through the front door. These little girls are like, “Um, what's going on?” They come back to our bedroom and it seemed like it took them forever for me to get on the stretcher and out to the ambulance. I think they were waiting to see if I was going to deliver my other baby because twins usually come pretty fast in succession. I remember laying there being like, “Why aren't you taking me? Why are we just sitting here? My baby is maybe not breathing. Can we get a move-on here?” But as soon as I got my first twin out, twin A out, my body just stopped. I don't know. It just didn't need to contract anymore. It was like it just turned off. They got me in the ambulance. There was a hospital just a couple of blocks from our house, but it was a very small hospital. I think they had a NICU, but it was for 37-week babies who needed help with breathing. It was not well-equipped for this situation. They took me to the OR. They cut the cord and whisked twin A off and tried to get him breathing. It ended up taking about an hour to get him oxygen because they didn't have any neonatologists there. They just had pediatricians. So he was on the phone with the neonatologist trying to figure out how to intubate this pound-and-a-half baby. Meagan: Holy cow. So baby was breathing, but not well, not enough.Lizzy: Yes, that's my memory. Meagan: So they had to really help this baby's undeveloped lungs to breathe and give baby oxygen. Lizzy: Yeah. He was not going to survive on his own. He was not going to make it without intubation. But then I never delivered the placenta so they just sanitized the part of the cord that was hanging out and shoved it back in.Meagan: What! Lizzy: They wanted to keep the other baby in as long as possible, so they didn't want to induce labor to get the placenta out. They were like, “You know what? We're just going to put this back in and see what happens,” because everyone figured that probably within 24 hours, I was having my other baby. They gave me all of the shots. The magnesium, the steroids, and everything. Magnesium is awful. My whole body felt like I was on fire, from the inside out burning. I don't like magnesium, but I understand its purpose. Meagan: Yeah, it has a purpose, but it definitely makes you feel crummy. Lizzy: Yeah. So then they transferred me to a different hospital and they just watched me. They were like, “Okay.” It had been 24 hours and I hadn't had the baby and they were like, “Well, I guess we're just going to check you into–” I think it was labor and delivery and they were like, “You're just going to chill here until you have a baby.” Meagan: Just curious, so they didn't transfer you, right? Lizzy: They did after. Meagan: For baby number two, they transferred you to a better hospital. Lizzy: Yes. Once they had me stabilized and realized that I wasn't having another baby in the time it took to get to the hospital, they sent me. They transferred me. Meagan: Let's get you to a place that can handle a 23-week birth. Lizzy: A micro-preemie, yeah. And as soon as they had Cayden, twin A, stabilized and had him intubated, they transferred him too by life flight because they couldn't help him there. Meagan: Okay, gotcha. Lizzy: So then, I was in the hospital for 11 days before I delivered my second twin. Paige: With four kids at home. Lizzy: Yeah. My husband was working and trying to play mom to four kids. He definitely had the hard job. I mean, I was sitting in that hospital room for 11 days making homemade thank-you cards and making jewelry and I was like, “This is amazing. This is like a mom-cation. This is awesome.” I'd go sit and look at my baby. I mean, it was a little scary, but it honestly was really relaxing. I felt so bad for my husband because he was doing everything and was holding it together really well considering everything he had to do. Paige: And it was over Thanksgiving so we all came and visited you. Lizzy: That's right. It was Thanksgiving. Paige: I remember visiting Cayden and his body was just so translucent, so tiny. But yeah, that waiting place. Meagan: Wow, wow. Lizzy: Yeah. And so then 11 days later, I just went into labor on my own. Well, the other thing they kept trying to decide was which is better? The baby does better in the womb, but if he gets an infection, that's worse. So they kept balancing the, “Do we induce you or let it go?” So they monitored me really closely for infection, but I didn't show any signs and then 11 days later, I just went into labor on my own. I remember my doctor– oh, Dr. Dabling. I've been trying to remember her name for the past three days. I finally remembered it. She was super awesome. We loved her and she came in. She was like, “Okay. I really think we should give you an epidural.” I was like, “This baby's going to be itty-bitty. It's just going to literally fall out of me. That's not going to be painful.” She was like, “Yes, but I'm really worried the placentas aren't going to deliver well and that I'm going to have to go in and scrape them out of you and that will be very painful. I really suggest you get the epidural.”So I did because the idea of people scraping things out of me was sufficient to push me to an epidural. They gave me the epidural and my husband got there. Twin B was born and they immediately whisked him off and got him to oxygen. He was set and stable within a matter of minutes. I delivered my placentas just fine and it was a great delivery. That was that. That was awesome and we were excited that both babies were here, but then four days later, twin B got an infection and died. Meagan: *Gasp* Just a random infection? Lizzy: My understanding, there were a lot of medical terms that I don't understand, but they automatically put babies that young on antibiotics as soon as they're born because they know that infection risks are high. He had been on them for about three days and wasn't showing any signs of anything. It's not good to be on medications you don't need. So they took him off the medication and then within about 12 hours, he was looking really gross. He wasn't looking good and then 12 hours later, he was gone. He was so little. He was 2 pounds. I'm not angry at anyone. I don't feel like it was anyone's fault. I feel like this was God's plan. The fact that Cayden was born at home, twin A, and didn't have any oxygen for an hour and didn't have any of the drugs and is still alive today and his twin brother who was born in a hospital with everything and everything he needed and then died, it just seems so clear to me that God has a plan and that this is what was supposed to happen and so it did. You can try and control things and do the best you can and that's great. God wants you to do that, but in the end, what needs to happen happens. So I came away with a lot of peace and not very much anger. I was really fortunate in that. I mean, it was so painful. It was so unbelievably painful and it was really interesting because we learn that my husband and I grieve in different ways. When my husband grieves, he wants to be around family and be supported and be around people and I just want to hide and be alone. I don't want to talk to anyone. I don't want anyone to tell me it's going to be okay. I just want people to say, “You're right. This sucks. This is so painful. I'm so sorry.” That was hard moving through that, but we figured it out and we're doing a lot better now. Then, we got pregnant again. I was so nervous. I was so nervous that something was going to go wrong and something was going to break or the baby was going to die. I just couldn't. I didn't know what was going to happen and it was very stressful for me. The pregnancy went really well. It was a very smooth pregnancy, but I still had all of these lingering fears that something horrible was going to go wrong. I went into labor and we checked into the hospital. The room they put us in to be evaluated was two doors down from the room that we said goodbye to our little boy. It totally shut off all of my labor. We tried walking the halls to get things working, but we kept running into people we knew from the NICU and his respiratory therapist and it just brought back all of the memories and all of the fears. We just couldn't do it. My labor totally shut off, so they sent us home and I remember as we drove home, I said, “I can't do it. I can't go back to that hospital. There are too many hard memories there.” My husband felt the same way. He said, “What if we do a home birth?” I was like, “Are you nuts? I'm 39 weeks pregnant, 40 weeks pregnant. This baby is coming. We can't do a home birth.” He was like, “Yeah, we can. Let's do it. We'll call my mom. She's delivered babies. We could totally do it.” We were like, “Okay. I guess we're going to do a home birth because we know we can't deliver in the hospital, so I guess that's the only other option.” So we called his mom and we were like, “Hey, we need you to come to help us deliver this baby.” She was like, “I'm sorry, what?” But she was wonderful. Meagan: “Are you serious?”Lizzy: No, I know. She was like, “Okay, well when do you want me to come down?” We were like, “Now. If you could get in the car now, that would be great.” She was like, “Okay.” Meagan: Oh my gosh. Lizzy: Because we had just been to the hospital for labor, so we assumed it was imminent. We were like, “No, really. I think you should head down here because, at any moment, I could go into labor again.” She came down and then it was a whole week. She just hung out at our house. I remember finally one day, I was like, “I need you to leave my house for the day. I can't see you. It reminds me that I haven't had my baby yet. I need to stop ultra-focusing on this and I need you to just– you have a daughter that lives here. Go visit her. Go away for the day and come back. It's not that I'm angry at you. It's all that I'm thinking about.” I finally just went into labor on my own and it was a really hard labor. I was in transition for two hours. It was much harder and much more difficult than my previous labors had been, but then she came. It's actually really funny because it was kind of early in the morning like 6:00 or 7:00 and she came out. Like I said, I'm a really vocal laborer so there was lots of yelling and lots of screaming. My kids were awake. They were watching a movie in a different room while we were trying to have this baby and so she comes out and 15 seconds later, my son walks in the door. He's– gosh, I don't know– probably three or four. I think four is about right and he walks in the door. He goes, “Is that the baby?” I mean, there's blood. There's fluid. We're trying to make sure this baby is breathing. She has just come out. We're like, “Yep, it is. Can you go away, please? Give us a few minutes.” He's like, “Uh-huh. Uh-huh, okay.” So he leaves and 30 seconds later, he comes back with all of our kids and is like, “Look! Mom's had the baby!” And we're like, “Yep, we did. Can you please give us just a few more minutes?” But it was so beautiful and so wonderful. I laid down in my own bed. It felt so healing after our traumatic twin birth and not being able to face the hospital and everything associated with that. To be able to have this successful home birth where we were all together and my kids climbed in bed with me, it just was wonderful and beautiful and everything that we needed. And then we got pregnant again. Meagan: I love it. And then another baby. After a really healing birth, though. That had to have been just so special. Lizzy: It was so special and all of my kids are about 12-18 months apart. I have 10 kids and my oldest turns 11 next month so they are all really, really close which is something else that was really interesting is that a lot of times you hear with the VBACs and with getting pregnant after a C-section, you need to wait 9 months. You need to wait a year. You need to wait 18 months before you even get pregnant or whatever and we just did what we wanted. I mean, you definitely should consult medical professionals with your specific instances, but we felt really good every time we got pregnant like, “Yep. We're ready to get pregnant. Let's do this again. We feel good about this,” so we went ahead and did it even though I don't think any doctor in the world would advocate doing what we've done. But we got pregnant again and my water broke the very first night of our family reunion. This was a week early or so and everyone was coming up for the weekend to our house for a family reunion. That night, my water broke. I was like, “Oh my goodness. Everyone is at our house and we were planning to do another home birth.” So I told all of the moms that as they were putting their kids down to bed, I was like, “I don't think you want your kids upstairs. I'm probably going to be in labor all night screaming, so find someplace farther away so your children will sleep through the night.” So everyone was kind of like, “Why aren't you going to the hospital? Your water has broken. What are you doing here? Why are you having a home birth?” But we were good with it. We were just like, “You know what? This is what we are doing.” I went to bed that night trying to sleep knowing what was coming and then woke up the next morning and I was like, “Wait a minute. I was supposed to have a baby. What happened?” I was hanging out waiting for labor to happen and we hiked a small mountain to have a bridal shower for my sister-in-law, all the while I'm like, “Okay. Maybe this will get it started. Maybe not.” Finally, it had been 18 hours or something, and nothing. Not even really any contractions and I was like, “I think maybe we need to call someone now.” Infections are real as we know, so let's get on the phone with someone. They were like, “Your water broke when?” We were like, “18 hours ago.” They were like, “Will you please come into the hospital now?” I was like, “Yeah. I'll come in.” So we checked in and actually, the doctor I met there was not my normal doctor. My normal doctor was on vacation and getting back the next day. So we had the guy that was just on call and he was actually really supportive. He was like, “You know what? Let's try giving you a little Pitocin, just a little something to maybe get things going and see what happens.” He was totally on board with, “Let's go for a vaginal birth.” But I was feeling a lot of fear. Something about having a vaginal delivery did not feel right to me. I was scared and scared of the pain, to be honest. Part of me was like, “I don't want to. That's so owie. I don't want to do that. If I just do a C-section, they'll drug me up and I'll have a baby.” Which, I knew wasn't true in my brain, but I wasn't really thinking clearly because I knew that the delivery wouldn't be painful, but the recovery would be so much worse. But at that moment, I was like, “I just really don't feel good about this.” I was really torn and my husband was like, “You want to pick a C-section?” I was like, “I think so. Something doesn't feel right about this.”So I finally did. I said, “Can I just choose to have a C-section?” And they were like, “Yeah. Yeah. You can do that if you want to. We'll go prep the OR.” They started the C-section and I could feel everything. It was awful. I kept telling them. I was like, “You guys, this really hurts. I can feel you cutting me.” They were like, “Oh, it's okay. The pain meds are kicking in.” The anesthesiologist kept pushing more drugs. He didn't understand why I was feeling this, why the pain meds weren't working. It turned out that because I was feeling so much pain, I kinked my wrists. I was flexing my wrists because I was in so much pain and it kinked my IV so none of the drugs were getting to me. So when they finally realized that, they were like, “You need to relax your hands.” I did and all of the drugs hit me at once. I remember watching myself floating away from my body while Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds played in the background. I've never been stoned before, but I'm pretty sure this is exactly what it feels like. But yeah, I remember I was like, “Bye Lizzy,” as I floated away from my body and it was all psychedelic. It was really intense and I remember them asking me and then the rest of the C-section was pretty much a blur. They got the baby out and I remember them saying, “Do you want to hold your baby?” I was like, “Nope. I don't even know where my arms are, so please don't put that baby on me because it's just going to fall off of me.” I was so out of it and it was just weird. It took me a long time to come back to even afterward. I didn't hold my baby, I don't think, for a couple of hours because I just didn't feel enough in control of my body that I could do it safely. But he came and that was happy, so that was his birth. And then we got pregnant again with twins. I was so excited. I had prayed for so long. After Levi, our twin, died, I prayed for so long that we would get another chance at twins. I had always wanted twins and I thought that was so cool. I said, “Please, please, please give us another chance except it's got to be a different outcome. I can't do this dying thing. Please send us twins and make them healthy and happy and it's going to be great.” So we got pregnant with twins and I was so excited except I was bleeding again and it was just like the first time. I was so scared. There were huge blood stains, but the bleeding seemed to heal itself a lot faster. It totally went away so I was like, “Oh, great. This looks awesome. This looks like we're in a good spot.” And the rest of the pregnancy went really well. It got time to deliver. Now, I currently live in a very rural town where they have a hospital, but they were like, “We don't have enough blood on sight that if you hemorrhaged, we could save you. We really think you should deliver somewhere else. We like you. We love taking care of you. We'd really love to deliver your babies. You should go someplace else for your safety just because you're a high hemorrhage risk with the number of kids you've had. You're having twins. They're high risk because you've been bleeding. Please go somewhere else.” So we did. We went to a hospital two hours away. We scheduled it and we showed up and got all ready and went into the C-section and everything. I actually asked, “Can I record the C-section on my phone? Is there an extra nurse that can take a video of my C-section?” Because I've always wanted to see myself birth a baby but I always forget to tell people that I want to do that. So we're in the middle of birthing and my husband is like, “Oh, do you want a mirror?” and I'm like, “Just get this thing out of me!” I'm not in the mood to deal with it at that point. I don't know. I've never even watched birth videos of other people having babies because I just want to watch myself. The first time I see it, I want it to be me. So I asked them, “Can some nurse record this?” He was like, “Um, yeah. Sure.” So I totally have a video of my C-section on my phone which is a little disarming to watch actually. Meagan: Oh, I wish I had mine. Lizzy: My kids have watched it and they think it's very cool. I remember as they were doing the C-section, I got so nauseous. I really thought I was going to throw up everywhere. I don't know why or what caused that, but the babies came out and everything was beautiful. I had these two beautiful girls that look totally different and were a pound and a half different in size. I was in the recovery room and all of a sudden, I noticed that all of the nurses were starting to get really agitated. My husband was there with me too and they were like, “We're going to take the babies to the recovery place. We need to help mom. Are you okay with that?” My husband was like, “Yeah. Take the babies away. I'm going to stay here with mom.” They were like, “Okay, good.”I started hemorrhaging really bad. I wasn't sure really at first what was going on, but I could just tell that something was wrong. Everyone was starting to panic. The doctor came back, so they finally told me, “You're hemorrhaging. We're trying to get it to stop. We're going to try some stuff.” I was like, “Okay.” Then they proceeded to punch down on my most recently cut open belly and that was the most excruciating pain I have ever felt. Oh my goodness. It was awful. They just kept pushing and pushing trying to get my uterus to start clamping down again and it just wasn't happening. They told me. They were like, “Okay. We previously discussed that you don't know if you're done having babies or not, so we don't want to do a hysterectomy if we don't have to. We have one more thing we can try, but if not, we're going to have to do that. We've got to stop this bleeding.” So we were like, “Do what you can. But we understand that emergencies happen.” So they took me in and did this crazy– I was so out of it. I was in so much pain and said, “Whatever you do, if you have to take my uterus, will you please just put me under? I'm so done. I can't feel this anymore. I need to be put out.” They were like, “Yes. I promise I will put you under if I have to put you in surgery again.” It's called a uterine artery embolism. They took a picture of my uterus and all of the arteries from above, and they shot contrast fluid into all of the arteries. This doctor had to take a probe, a really long cord, and he went into the femoral artery in my leg. It had to go up around my heart and back down into my uterus. I don't know medicine does these things, but it was so crazy. They take a still picture of where all of my arteries were and he would guide the probe by feeling through my body. They'd take another picture, see what it would look like, and he would push it through until it got to the artery and filled it with the medical equivalent of minimal expanding foam and just totally clogged up that whole artery so that it couldn't bleed anymore. Meagan: Very fascinating. Lizzy: I know. It was a total miracle. Our doctor told us afterward that I think it took him a total of 20 minutes to do it and he said, “I've never done it faster than 45.” This was unbelievably fast and wildly successful. It stopped the bleeding and I was able to keep my uterus, but it was a hard recovery after having the C-section and then getting pounded on after that and then all of the procedures afterward, it was a really rough recovery. And I was older. I had lots of kids. It kind of all compounded and that was the recovery, but the twin girls were here and they were beautiful and so happy. I was able to tandem nurse which was something I hoped I would be able to do and now I have these 10 beautiful children that are just adorable. Meagan: Oh my gosh. I love it. Yeah. I mean, wow. What a journey you have been through. Holy smokes. I am sorry about your loss. That is hard. Lizzy: Thank you. Meagan: I definitely felt the emotion in your story after, but thank you so much for sharing all of these beautiful stories and this journey that you have been on. It has definitely been quite the journey. So many unique things. You mentioned it yourself talking about waiting until you're 18 months after to get pregnant or give birth and things like that. Between your C-section and your first VBAC, you said 3 months. Lizzy: Yeah. Meagan: 3 months. So we know that it's possible. I think the biggest thing is yeah, there are all of these studies and I think that everyone needs to read the studies, educate themselves, and then make the decision that is best for them, but it's really just that. Make the decision that is best for you and for you, your kids are closer and it sounds like you have such a happy crew for sure. But yeah. Are there any tips that you would give to our listeners especially going through such high and low emotions from each birth? Do you have any tips that you would give our listeners? Lizzy: I think I would say that each birth is its own birth. You need to be able to let it unfold the way it needs to without worrying about what has happened previously. Every birth can be so different. I felt a lot of fear after we lost our boy that it was going to happen every single time after and once I realized that this is a new baby. This is a new experience. I just need to have faith that it's going to work out, I think that helped a lot, and just saying, “You know what? Yes. That happened. I hated that. It was awful. I don't want to ever do it again. I'm going to try heading forward believing that this is going to be different.”Not to the point where you ignore bad signs or bad feelings, but just where you say, “You know what? I'm going to let this baby be it's own and not be controlled by the fear of my previous pregnancies.” That was a big help for me to let each baby be their own. Meagan: Oh, I love that because especially with VBAC, we have this past and sometimes they are traumatic. Sometimes they are not. We all have experienced different Cesareans and things, but we still have this past birth and for me, I mean, even with my third, I was triggered because I had similarities to the way the labor started. I had to truly be like, “This is a different baby. This is a different birth. This is years later.” I had to try to stay present in this space and not flash back to three years ago or two years ago. It's really hard to do. Lizzy: It is very hard. Meagan: Yeah, but I love that you said that. Each baby and each birth is individual. Lizzy: And I think the other thing I tell myself a lot is a healthy baby is most important. The end goal is a living baby at the end. As long as I get a baby at the end that's healthy, it's going to be okay. The experience might not have been what I wanted, but the thing I really cared about was the baby. That was the end goal. The end goal was getting the precious, perfect, beautiful baby and every time, I got that. So every time was a win because that was my expectation. Now, I had other expectations too, but would I have rather gotten the perfect VBAC to have my baby die? No. My goal was to have the baby and so you try as hard as you can, do everything you can, and if it doesn't go the way you want it, you still get this beautiful baby and that's what's really the happiest about this. You got the baby. Paige: I think what I look up to the most about Lizzy and her stories is that no, it's not conventional. I don't think there is anybody in the world who has had similar stories quite like Lizzy's with kids that close together. I mean, typically in families that have a lot of kids, it's kind of all vaginal– I mean, I don't know. Right? Lizzy: Yeah. I think it's mostly vaginal births that are very successful. Paige: I think Lizzy's stories are very unique because there are C-section stories sprinkled in there and then a VBAC. We can all relate to that feeling deep within us of being drawn to VBAC and it's like, “I know this is a little riskier. I know this isn't maybe what a doctor would recommend initially.” I mean, hopefully, your practice is supportive. But that calling is in your heart and you go for it because your intuition is telling you that your body can do it. And that's what Lizzy has refined. She has refined her intuition to be able to listen to that, follow it, and recognize that there is this calling to have these babies and bring them to the world in lots of different ways but also to move forward not in fear, but how she feels is appropriate. It's probably not what's going to work for you or for me. I'm not going to have 10 kids, but I can still look up to Lizzy and I've taken so much inspiration from her as I prepared for each of my births because she understands and has such a heart for birth and unconventional ways of birthing in the way that's right for you. Meagan: I love that. Yes. Lizzy: I mean, I've now had four C-sections and I knew after my third C-section that no provider would let me vaginally birth again. Even after two, most of them say no but because I had accidentally had those twins vaginally, it kind of opened that door back up for me, but I knew that once I had another C-section, I was done. I'd never vaginally birth again and there's part of me that still really mourns that. As I think about having more kids, I'm like, “Maybe I should just go off the reservation and have another home birth.”Paige: We talk about that all the time because I've had three now. Lizzy has had four and we're like, “We can do it.”Lizzy: Right? Let's just be each other's midwives and deliver our babies at home in secret. Paige: So TBD what is in the future. We don't know. Lizzy: So part of me does mourn that I'm not going to get that experience again because I think I know that it's not good for my body with the history I've had that it's probably not medically very smart for me to try and do that. But that's okay. You know, because I've been through a lot and I got the baby and that's what matters. I got the baby. Meagan: Yeah. Oh, well thank you so much for sharing all of your stories today and being here with us, taking the time out of your day. I know time is so precious and I just feel that in so many ways you're going to touch someone out there listening just like Molly said in the beginning. In this podcast, every story is going to connect with someone differently, and with all of your stories, I guarantee there is someone out there who is going to connect or has maybe had a similar situation or was told something similar or something. So it's going to be amazing. Thank you so much. Lizzy: Well, thank you for having me on. I love talking babies. Meagan: So do we, obviously. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.   Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

MesoAmerican Indigenous Autist and BCBA Mari Cerda joins the panel to discuss her work mediating between the Autistic and ABA communities. The discussion links values to our work from multiple perspectives, including personal, professional, scientific, and cultural considerations.The panel shares ideas for ethical responding, including private behaviors and self-management techniques, when entering into emotionally charged conversations regarding ethical practice. The discussion also includes under-researched areas of ethical practice regarding cultural contextualism. To earn CEUs for listening, click here, log in or sign up, pay the CEU fee, + take the attendance verification to generate your certificate! Don't forget to subscribe and follow and leave us a rating and review Show Notes   References Behavior Analyst Certification Board. (2020). Ethics code for behavior analysts. https://bacb.com/wp-content/ethics-code-for-behavior-analysts/  Hayes, S. C., Barnes-Holmes, D., & Roche, B. (Eds.). (2001). Relational frame theory: A post-Skinnerian account of human language and cognition. Kluwer Academic/Plenum Publishers.  Skinner, B. F. (1948). Walden Two (p. 266). Macmillan.  Resources LEAP Institute  https://www.leapaba.org/about-us-1  One way to access Mari's podcast Supervisor's Soapbox:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/supervisors-soapbox/id1552649737  Mari's WIBA talk with Tyra Sellers and Patricia Wright: https://behaviorlive.com/courses/storytelling-an-art-and-a-science-for-behavior-change  BACB Demographics Data:  https://www.bacb.com/bacb-certificant-data/  Learn about Morita therapy  http://www.moritaschool.com/read-me  Learn about Hypnobabies  https://www.hypnobabies.com/  For one example of Agatha Christie's ACT skills  Christie, A. (2000). Death on the Nile. New York: Berkley Books.  Kerri's talk with Tim Fuller and Kristin Smith is now available on CR Institute:  instructional-design-and-behavior-analysis-just-how-closely-aligned-are-we?  Nissa's assessment cohort series  https://institute.centralreach.com/learning-paths/assessment-mentoring-cohort?query=assessment%20mentor  ABA Knowledge Builder – CR Institute's test prep solution  https://institute.centralreach.com/learning-paths/knowledge-builder?query=ABA%20Knowledge%20Builder 

We polled our social media followers asking what more you'd like to see from The VBAC Link. You asked for more stories about vaginal births after multiple Cesareans. Well, today is that day. We LOVE our VBAMC mamas!Sarah-Ann joins us from Canada to share her beautiful journey of healing and empowerment through her two Cesarean birth experiences, lots of research, a supportive community, and The VBAC Link podcast. She gives so many great ideas on how to prepare physically, spiritually, and mentally for a VBA2C. Sarah-Ann defied the doctors who told her that her pelvis was too small and that a VBAC after two C-sections was literally impossible. Sarah-Ann, we applaud your courage and are so proud of you!Additional linksThe VBAC Link Facebook CommunityThe VBAC Link Blog: Why Failure to Progress is Usually Failure to WaitFive Minute Fear Release VideoHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull transcriptNote: All transcripts are edited to correct grammar, false starts, and filler words. Meagan: Hello, hello. This is Meagan with The VBAC Link. I still don't know when it's going to be normal for me to not have Julie on here with me. It's still so weird to not say this is Julie and Meagan, but this is Meagan and I'm so excited to be with you guys today. Back when school was starting, I posted on social media and asked people what they would like to see from The VBAC Link now that all of my kids are in school full time. I'm really going to be diving in on The VBAC Link. A lot of people said that they want more stories of vaginal birth after two Cesareans. Today is that day. We have a VBA2C story with you today. We have our friend, Sarah-Ann, and she is going to talk about her journey through her two C-sections and then her VBAC. Before we started recording, we talked about a lot of similarities between her and my history with Cesarean and how crazy it is that if you go through so many people's journeys, and if you go through all of these episodes, you're going to find a lot of similarities with misconceptions. Some of those misconceptions are a small pelvis, a big baby, your body can't dilate, failure to progress, and all of these things. She has similar things like I did in my story, so I'm excited to hear more about what she went through and how she navigated through into a vaginal birth after two C-sections. At the end, we are going to talk a little bit more about those misconceptions and what we can do to avoid them and educate ourselves so that if they do come up, we know how to navigate that. Review of the WeekMeagan: Of course, I have a Review of the Week, so I'm going to jump right into that, and then we will get into this wonderful story. This is from Renee. It's from Apple Podcasts. Her tag is, Re-nee-nee, but I'm thinking it's Renee. It says, “Best Podcast Ever. I am so happy I found this podcast. I had a C-section in early 2019 after two days of failed induction. It really caused a lot of stress on me and even though recovery was fine, my emotions were all over the place. I knew the minute we started trying for our second, I wanted to try for a VBAC. Listening to these stories helped me become so educated and confident in my body. I did have my successful VBAC last month and couldn't be happier. I've learned that believing in yourself and having a provider in your corner really makes all the difference. Julie and Meagan are inspirational, positive, and so easy to listen to.”Aww, that makes me so happy. Thank you, Renee, or Re-nee-nee. Congrats on your VBAC and thank you for sharing with us. Just like she said, there are so many factors that come into play when going for a VBAC and not even just for a VBAC, just having a baby in general. You really want to have that supportive provider who supports the desires of the way you want to birth. You want to have a supportive community feel whether it be a doula, family member, of course, birth partner, you want everyone in your space to be in your corner. It really does make a difference. If you haven't already, please leave us a review. I love seeing the emails come in and adding them to this queue so we can read them here on the podcast. You can leave them on Apple Podcasts, Google, and Facebook. You can email us. You can Instagram message us. You can Facebook message us. Google review, wherever you are, you can leave a review. We would love it and we may just be reading your review on the next podcast. Sarah-Ann's storyMeagan: Okay, Ms. Sarah-Ann. Sarah-Ann: Hello! Meagan: Are you excited? I'm so excited. Sarah-Ann: I'm very excited, yes. Meagan: I really appreciate you being here today and like I said, so many of our followers are wanting more vaginal birth after multiple Cesarean stories because sadly, in today's world, it's harder to not even achieve but to find a provider to support you in vaginal birth after multiple Cesareans. So thank you for being here today and I'm so excited about your story. Do you have anything that you'd like to tell our audience before you'd like to dive into your story?Sarah-Ann: You know, I think I'm just really excited to share my story and like you said, the provider thing is huge which I will touch on, and then yeah. I'm very, very excited. I applied two years ago to be on the podcast, and so when I got that email, I pretty much jumped for joy. Meagan: I know. We took our big, long break and everything. It's so good to be back. I'm loving all of the stories and it is so fun. We have seriously so many podcast submissions. It was so fun to go back to some of the old ones and send out those emails and see. Because yeah, we sent out a lot of emails and it was like, boom. Scheduled! We are so grateful for you. I would love to turn the time over to you to share these beautiful stories of yours. Sarah-Ann: Okay, wonderful. Thank you so much for that. I think the way that I want to kick things off is that I want to touch a little bit on prebaby because it kind of tells the full story. But before I do, I just want to mention a trigger warning. I will touch on the topic of miscarriage. When my husband and I finally decided that we were going to start trying for a baby, I was very, very naive when it came to anything regarding planning for a baby, the conception process, and just the overall pregnancy journey. So when I did get pregnant after three or four months of trying, I was absolutely elated. I immediately began planning everything, but what actually ended up happening was that I had a miscarriage. I found out at about the 9-week mark just at a routine ultrasound that the baby had stopped growing around 5-6 weeks. I felt very, very betrayed by my body and very angry that I had lost this opportunity to enjoy any sort of, in my mind at the time, it was being able to enjoy any future pregnancies. That ignorant bliss, I guess, for a lack of a better word. But what ended up happening was that I was actually pregnant within one cycle after the miscarriage. To put it into perspective, I had a D&C on April 11th, and then by June 10th, I had a positive pregnancy test in my hand. I really didn't allow myself a lot of time to grieve or go through the process of all the emotions from the miscarriage which, subsequently, also carried into my second pregnancy. With my first baby, I was pregnant with my firstborn and I quite literally was a complete puddle of emotion the entire pregnancy. Anything that I felt or I didn't feel created extreme anxiety for me. I literally worried about everything. Because of that experience of going through the miscarriage, I let fear play a large role in how my pregnancy played out. I think that parts of it actually contributed to my C-section. For example, I stopped moving in any way. I stopped exercising. I was quite an active person before getting pregnant, but I had all of these fears in my mind that can sometimes spiral. I let that fear eat away at me, so I stopped exercising. I really indulged in that whole eating-for-two mentality. Outside of staying away from the recommended foods to avoid, I didn't really eat healthy which actually led to quite a bit of weight gain. So aside from that, going back to this whole theme of being very naive because I feel like the topic of pregnancy and preparing for childbirth is not a widely discussed conversation at least in the OB world. I did have an OB and pretty much, I listened to anything and everything that he told me. I really did not know that I had a choice in anything at all or if I had the ability to have questions. I remember being close to full term and being told at one point, “Okay, we're going to do a sweep today at this appointment.” I had no idea what that was. I actually didn't even know that I had the option to decline. For other examples, I remember my doctor talking to me about pain management and being told that I needed to get an epidural.  He said that it's completely unnecessary for women to try to do childbirth without any pain intervention and upon reflection, I was really only educated on the things that the practice I was at wanted me to know or had opinions on, so I really didn't know that I had alternative choices offered. Meagan: And he wasn't making it sound like there were any either. Sarah-Ann: No, no. Pretty much was just like, “This is the way it is. This is what you need to do.”Meagan: Yeah. Sarah-Ann: Yeah, and so when I finally did go into labor, they were actually very, very inconsistent and all over the place for over 24 hours. I actually didn't know what was going on. I was like, “Why isn't labor picking up? It's been over 24 hours.” But what I didn't realize at the time was that this could possibly be a sign of a poorly positioned baby. I also had an anterior placenta. I think it's important to note that I reclined for most of my pregnancy. For those who follow the Spinning Babies, for example, my belly button was always straight up in the air for most of my pregnancy. Even though I didn't know it at the time, my baby was actually OP. I think it was sometime around 2 centimeters that I went into the hospital. I was immediately admitted within the hour even though I was still in very, very early labor. In hindsight, I wish I had actually been sent home to continue moving and trying to get labor to pick up a little bit more on its own. They requested the epidural even though I wasn't really in a whole lot of pain. But again, going back to that conditioning that I had been told by my doctor, “Just get the epidural right away.” So again, I'm only at about 2-3 centimeters. I've now had the epidural. I'm completely laid up in bed on my back. Nobody has offered for me to be turned. Nobody has offered me a peanut ball, for example. My doctor comes in around 4 centimeters. He says, “Let's just get things moving. I'm going to break your water and we'll get you on Pitocin. Let's get things moving along.” Baby was completely fine at this point. There were really no contradictions to anything that was happening. It was more or less just him saying, “Let's pick things up.” I lay in bed for the next five hours. Again, not moving, just completely on my back and unsurprisingly, the doctor came in five hours later, I was still at 4 centimeters and had not progressed at all. He just basically said, “You know what? We need to do a C-section.” Because of the miscarriage that I had gone through and all of the things leading up to that point, I pretty much just agreed. So that was my firstborn. It was a little girl. She came in weighing 7 pounds and 15 ounces. Meagan: Which is a perfect size. Sarah-Ann: Yeah, yeah. I really didn't have a whole lot of ill feelings towards that labor and delivery. I honestly just thought it was a one-off. Again, not being educated and being very naive, I just figured that was just what happened that time around and the next time would be totally different and I would just have a VBAC. I got pregnant with my second 10 months later, so 10 months after my C-section. My oldest two are about 20 months apart. I was more relaxed this time around, but I still didn't take the opportunity to educate myself. I did switch providers and go with more of a primary network of care providers here in Edmonton. I had this one doctor. She was my one doctor for all of the prenatal care, but the doctors who delivered the babies were on a rotational basis. There was an opportunity to do a meet and greet, but it was kind of like a you-get-who-you-get when you go into labor kind of thing. And so again, as I was reflecting and going through my notes for this session, it's funny how some of those red flags actually come up with some of the things that were told to me by my provider. I wanted to share some examples. One of the things that was said to me was, “You know, if you're feeling really anxious in any way about this delivery because you've already had a C-section, you could literally walk into a hospital right now and they have to give you a C-section.” So no talk or encouragement about a VBAC at this point. It was just like, “Go get your C-section.”Another thing that was said was, “Please know if things don't work out the way that you want them to, you will never again have the opportunity to try for a VBAC.” So again, all of this conditioning was going into my mind. It just adds a lot of pressure, so in my mind at the time, I'm thinking, “Oh my goodness. If I don't have a VBAC this time around, I'll never get the opportunity to do it again.”And then the third quote I wanted to share was, I had asked my provider, “Does this impact fertility and future children if I have to have a C-section this time around?” She was like, “No, no, no, no, no. You can have as many C-sections as you want. It doesn't affect anything in any way. I once saw a woman who had ten C-sections.” She actually said this in a very admirable tone and so it was almost like it was very glamorized. Again, reflecting I'm like, “Why did I not recognize these red flags?”If I'm comparing it to my first as well, I think I had a very similar pregnancy. Again, I did not engage in the healthiest of lifestyles, did not exercise, and didn't eat properly. I gained a considerable amount of weight, reclined my entire pregnancy, and when I started to get close to term, I started to stress a crazy amount. I stressed and stressed and stressed. I was like, “Why am I not going into labor? I need to go into labor early. This baby is just getting bigger,” and so it just compounded on top of everything else that I was going through from a mental perspective knowing in my mind, thinking at the time, “You'll never get the chance to do this again if you don't have your VBAC.” So just very, very stressed. I opted for two or three sweeps a week. I tossed and turned every night just desperately waiting for any sign of labor to come. Labor actually did start on its own eventually. I was about a week past due and it was a very identical pattern to my first. Very inconsistent, irregular contractions all over the place, would not pick up, just stop-start. Again, not realizing at the time that my baby was an OP baby. I did have an anterior placenta this time around as well. I went to the hospital again too early in very, very early labor but because I was a past C-section mom, I was immediately admitted. You start to get those individuals who start to come to talk. They share their views and perceptions on C-sections and VBACs as well. I remember being tracked down in the hall at one point when I was walking through my contractions and the nurse said, “Oh, I just talked to your doctor. She wants to break your water. It's not going to do anything other than picking things up. What do you say?”I honestly didn't know at the time that if you break your water too early and baby is in a poor position that this can make them more or less be further stuck, right?Meagan: Right, yeah. Which, in your first birth, I'm like, “Okay, OP baby. 4 centimeters. Water breaks. Baby comes down OP. It's going to take longer to dilate.”Sarah-Ann: Yeah, exactly. Meagan: Right? Mhmm. Sarah-Ann: Pretty much the exact same thing was happening with this second baby. So now that my water was broken, I needed the epidural because the contractions were so strong. I made it to about 6 centimeters this time around. I was so frozen, though, from the epidural. I couldn't even wiggle my toes. It was just cranked to the max. Baby went into distress at this point. They called for a second opinion. I was actually very, very devastated at this point around that I knew things were starting to look like a C-section. A seasoned doctor came in and something happened to me that was actually very, very profound and played a very, very large role in my third pregnancy which was my VBAC after 2 C-sections. He did a check on me and he said, “Your baby is sunny-side up and your pelvis is shaped like a V.” He held his index finger and his middle finger up in a V shape. He said, “Baby is not going to come.”I'll touch on that when I go into my third pregnancy, but just that single moment right there of him telling me that I had this V-shaped pelvis which later on, in my mind, I thought was an Android-shaped pelvis. It really played a large mental game for me. So baby was born. He was born stunned and very unresponsive. It was quite traumatic and I do recall a lot of Code Pink being shouted over and over. It was pretty much a whirlwind of a birth and very, very traumatic. He was my second born, a little boy. He weighed 9 pounds and 5 ounces. He was quite a bit bigger. But in hindsight, nothing that I think I would have had trouble with if the baby had been better positioned.He actually ended up having to be in the NICU for a few days. While he was in the NICU, I was recovering in my room. This one nurse came in and she was so kind. I remember her so vividly in my mind. I actually only ever saw her once. She never came back after that. She said something to me. She said, I was telling her how disappointed and sad I was that I didn't get my VBAC. She said in the most casual tone ever, “Well, maybe your next one will be your VBAC.” It was so profound for me. I was like, “How could this experienced labor nurse be telling me something that apparently all of these doctors had been telling me that I could never have a VBAC after 2 C-sections?”I was like, “Wait a minute. What are you telling me? This is an actual thing?” This actually opened up a whole new door because, at this point, I was starting to realize in my mind that there was not a consistent form of care or approach to C-sections and VBACs as I had originally thought. I just thought that this was the rule and this was the way it was and that's the way it had to be. But obviously, it's not the truth. Meagan: Well, and you are not alone out there. A lot of people do. A lot of people will have conversations with me. I talk about what I do all the time and they will say, “What do you do?” I say that I talk about birth after Cesarean options and they are like, “Well, there aren't any options so what do you talk about?” And I'm like, “There actually are options.” Then we talk about my story and they are like, “No you didn't.” Yeah, I did. Sarah-Ann: Yeah, yeah. It's just crazy. So it was actually as I reflect on everything as a whole, that was a very distinct moment in my memory that really changed the course of things for me for my future pregnancy. So at my 6-week follow-up appointment after having my second C-section, I actually went and saw this doctor who had delivered my son. I asked him about a VBAC the next time around. He was so hesitant. He shook his head. He was so reluctant. He said, “Your baby would need to be less than 7 pounds for you to even be able to do it. No doctor in their right mind will induce you.”So again with the misinformation, right? These doctors had different opinions as far as the way things should be done and how things should be done. They say it to you as a matter of fact as opposed to their opinion. So it really plays on you having to try and decipher what is truth in this, what is maybe not necessarily the truth, but at that point, I had already had a sudden thirst for the truth. I remember going home and putting out this post. In Canada here, we have this Canada-wide baby forum where you can ask all of these anonymous questions for all of these different groups. So in the VBAC group, I had asked this question. I said, “Is this true what this doctor told me?” This one woman responded to me and she was like, “It's not like they can tie you down to a table and force you to have a C-section.” I was like, “Whoa.” This was just like all of this light opening up in front of me. I was like, “Okay. Things are going to be different the next time around.”I knew going into my third pregnancy because we wanted to have three children, I knew things would be different this time around. I actually got pregnant with my third. My youngest two are exactly two years apart, so when I got pregnant with her, I actually started my preparations well in advance of being pregnant with her because I was very determined to do everything differently from the start. Even before I was pregnant, for that year leading up to me even trying to conceive with my husband, I began preparing my body before I was even pregnant. I brought my BMI down to, I think it was about a 23. I exercised regularly. I enrolled in hot yoga because I wanted to learn how to loosen my body and take a little bit more of a holistic approach to taking care of myself. I actually started going to, this was pre-COVID, we had a VBAC support group here in Edmonton that I had come across, so I started attending some of those meetings before COVID happened. Really, any information that I could find on VBACs after two Cesareans, I literally devoured immediately. I think this was at this point that I came across The VBAC Link which quite honestly changed my life both from an information perspective and also a community perspective because as you know, the community there is huge, huge, huge. Meagan: Yeah. Sarah-Ann: Everyone is so supportive, so it was really quite literally life-changing. Meagan: I know. I love the Facebook community and our little private group. Everyone is so sweet in there. There is so much love. Sarah-Ann: Yes, yeah. Regardless of the outcome, like you said, there is just so much love and support.  Meagan: Mhmm. Sarah-Ann: So yeah. I actually did some research on placentas because I had read that there is an increased chance of OP babies when you have an anterior placenta. It's funny. I'm by nature a stomach sleeper. I always have been. I have read that when you're trying to conceive that if you sleep on your back, you have a higher chance of a posterior placenta. I don't really know if there is any truth to that, but I will say that I changed from being a stomach sleeper to a back sleeper while I was trying to conceive my third baby. Meagan: Interesting. Sarah-Ann: Yes and I ended up having a posterior placenta. Meagan: Really? Oh my goodness. I'm actually a back sleeper too and I always worried about having an anterior placenta. I always ended up having a posterior placenta, but wow. Sarah-Ann: Yeah. I can't even remember where I came across that information, but I told my midwife that too and she had the same reaction. She's like, “That makes sense.” I was like, “Yeah.” Meagan: Yeah, gravity. Sarah-Ann: Exactly, just the natural law of gravity. Meagan: Interesting, okay. Sarah-Ann: Yeah. Some of the other things I did, I had seen I think it was Julie who did a 5-minute fear release video on YouTube. Meagan: Oh yes, she did. Sarah-Ann: Yep, yep. I started to recognize the importance of not only physical preparation like healing my body but also the mental component as well. So healing your mind for it, working through all of those fears, working through the trauma. I saw a birth trauma therapist to work through some of the trauma from my second birth. I wanted to touch on this as well. I did this emotion code therapy as well. I'm not sure how many people are too familiar with it. It's kind of like a form of Reiki but basically, it was developed by this chiropractor actually. Basically, what it is, it works on releasing trapped emotional energy in certain parts of your body to try and release the negative energy that is being housed there from past trauma. Meagan: Love that. Sarah-Ann: Yeah. I guess it's a profound thing that happened to me during one of the sessions. I was working with this woman and we were going through the session. She was working on releasing this energy with me. I had never told her ever, never discussed really with anyone that I had a miscarriage. While she was working on my pelvis, she stopped so suddenly and looked at me. She said, “I'm so sorry to ask this, but have you ever had a miscarriage before?” I was so taken aback. I was like, “Um, yes I have.” I was really caught off guard. She said, “I'm so sorry to be abrasive and ask this question so frank to you, but your baby just told me that it was the baby from the miscarriage and that it's come back to you.” And she started crying. Meagan: Whoa. Sarah-Ann: Even I get choked up thinking about it. Obviously, tears were flowing down my face. For those who are active in the spiritual community or have the belief in a higher faith or a higher belief and have that faith, this was really profound for me. It was really a full-circle experience that I was going through. I did want to mention that as well because it was something that was really special that I experienced during the pregnancy. Meagan: That's pretty unique too. It's a unique thing to hear and be told and to have her feel that. That's pretty cool.  Sarah-Ann: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and to hear her cry. To see the emotion, because I feel like people can just say that here and there, but just to see the emotion in her face and to see the overwhelm that she was going through, I was like, “Wow. This is intense.” But yeah, so it was pretty profound. And then just some of the other things that I did differently this time around, when I did eventually find out I was pregnant, I was like, “Okay.” I applied for a midwife. I hired a doula. I enrolled in Hypnobabies classes. There were so many things that I did differently this time around. I was very, very active. I did cardio 4-5 times a week. I saw a chiropractor. I saw an acupuncturist. I really just did everything that I thought was within my power to do. I worked on food. I saw a dietician to help me make healthier food choices and I found Spinning Babies, for example, and did forward leaning inversions for 45 seconds every day. And then just really worked on all of those different pain management techniques with my doula. I really felt that I had done as much as I possibly could within my power to prepare for this labor regardless of what the outcome was. So for me, in those final weeks, the biggest thing for me was that mental game, just accepting that whatever was meant to be will be, that it's going to be okay either way, just trying to relax and work on that mental component, and not stressing. I guess in my final week leading up to the delivery, I really was relaxed. I pampered myself. I stopped working out. I really just wanted to breathe and make sure I was having a very positive experience. I also never had a single sweep the entire pregnancy nor did I have a check. My midwife was completely fine with that. She was like, “Literally, your cervix isn't going to tell me anything until you are in labor. I'm totally on board with you.” Meagan: I love that personally because it really doesn't. It doesn't tell us anything. Even in early labor, when we're in early labor, it's not telling us much besides the fact that we're in early labor, right? Sarah-Ann: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I really didn't actually have my first check until I was in the hospital with her because our midwives here have hospital access. I'm not sure if it's like that everywhere. I went into labor with my third baby on Canadian Thanksgiving, Sunday morning. It was such a beautiful experience. I woke up. I was calm. My husband was calm. We just relaxed the whole day. At about 8:00-9:00 at night was when things really started to hit me hard and fast. This was again, a very new experience to me because as I mentioned in my first two labors, it was that stop-start. I couldn't figure out what was going on. There was no rhyme or reason to the labor pattern, but once I hit a more active stage, it was like, “Wow. This is super, super intense.”They were coming at me very consistently. I think I threw up a couple of times, but my doula assured me that it was totally normal. She seemed totally okay with it even though I was like, “Oh my gosh. I can't believe that I'm throwing up in front of her.” Meagan: Listen. Burps, toots, and pukes. Burps, toots, and pukes. Those things are good signs. That's what I always tell my clients. When they're like, “I'm so sorry I'm burping.” I'm like, “This is a good thing. Baby is moving down. Air is moving.” Sarah-Ann: Yep, exactly. A new experience for me, but like I said, she was totally cool with it. But the intensity did overwhelm me. Contrary to what some others feel, I actually felt a lot safer being in the hospital. I never really felt like it was an unsafe space for me. Because our midwives have hospital access, we just get our room, and then, for the most part, we're supposed to be left alone. Now, because I was going for a VBAC after two Cesareans, there were some doctors at the hospital who were a little uptight about what was happening. I remember my midwife saying to me that she got cornered in the hallway being like, “Why are you doing this?” But she was like, “Listen. We're doing this.” During my first check after I got into the hospital, my midwife was like, “You know what? Let's just do a check so we have a baseline.” So this was my first time. My doula was like, “Whatever it is, don't worry. It's just a baseline.” I was 2 centimeters and I will have to admit that I was very surprised that I was only 2 centimeters after the intensity of what I was experiencing because again, it was so new to me. But again, it really didn't mean anything at that point. I labored on the toilet and in the shower. I did some hypnosis and I had a bit of help from some morphine. At one point, one of the doctors came in. He was quite rude. He had said that he had looked up all of my last reports and one of the reports had shown that I had a T-incision for my last C-section. Meagan: Oh really?Sarah-Ann: Yeah. This was complete news to me and complete news to my midwife because she had obviously gone through all of my histories so I had no idea where this came from. I had never heard it in any of my past reports or follow-up appointments. It was literally the first time I had ever heard it. So he had said that it actually increases the risk by 5% or more. I don't know the stats. I don't know if that's true, but that's just what he said to me. He was quite aggressive about it. I literally looked him in the eye. I said, “Unless I or my baby are in danger, I'm not consenting to anything.” I actually didn't see him again after that, so I think he just wanted to come in and make his point, then he left after that. Meagan: Interesting. Have you since gone back and looked through any of your op reports to see if you do, in fact, have a special scar? Sarah-Ann: No, I should though. The way he positioned it was that during the second C-section, there was a tear while they were doing it and I think that's what led to the T-incision, but I'm not quite sure. Meagan: So you had a vaginal birth after two C-sections with a special scar potentially. Sarah-Ann: Yes, yes. Meagan: Wow, okay. Well, that just adds a little spin to your story. Sarah-Ann: Yeah. Meagan: All right, keep going. I'm excited. Keep going. He leaves the room. He leaves the room. Sarah-Ann: He leaves the room and doesn't come back. I'm quite glad that he doesn't come back because he brought negative energy to the room. Quite frankly, I think that he wanted to come in and assert his authority or whatever they want to do at that point. Everything was fine. Baby was doing beautifully. I was totally good. Like I was saying, I was laboring in the bathroom. I lost my mucous plug. I think it was about 9:30 in the morning at this point. I was about 4 centimeters dilated. Contractions were still coming very consistently on their own. It was about 11:00 and I finally, I didn't want to but I felt that at this point, I had been laboring for over 24 hours and I wanted the epidural. My doula and my husband were like, “Wait a second. Are you sure? You've literally spent the last 9 months telling us that you would be super upset if you get the epidural.” I was like, “No. I've made peace with whatever will happen. I definitely want the epidural.”And so while I was waiting for that, my water actually broke naturally and on its own. Meagan: Okay. Sarah-Ann: Yeah, so things were still progressing very, very nicely. I got the epidural and I don't know if the stars were just aligned for me at this point, but the epidural took effect just enough to take the edge off. I still had quite a bit of pain, but it was manageable and it was almost like a walking epidural. Even though my midwife was saying that there is no such thing because I had asked her about it, I could fully move. I could move my legs. I was changing positions on my own. I was on all fours at one point. I didn't actually try to walk. I'm sure I could have if I wanted to though. But like I said, it just took the edge off, so it wasn't a full-blast epidural. I think that really helped me with all of the position changes. Meagan: Right. Right. I think with the walking epidural thing, it's that they don't really exist meaning that you can't really get up and walk the halls, but you can move your body. You can even have an assisted squat and things like that. I feel like they need to change it from a walking epidural to a light epidural. Sarah-Ann: Yes. Yes, exactly. Meagan: Or minimal. I don't even know. Or half epidural. You know, something because people think they can get up and walk around and usually they can't. Sarah-Ann: No, yeah. But quite a bit of difference like I was saying. Meagan: Oh yeah. Sarah-Ann: Like I was saying with my second, I was so frozen. I couldn't even move my toes to just being fully mobile. Meagan: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah.Sarah-Ann: Yeah, so very, very helpful in that sense. And again, how come– I guess these are all of my questions. Why doesn't anybody ask you, “Do you want the full blast epidural or do you want just a little bit?” Nobody talks about this and nobody asks you. Meagan: Right. I know. Sarah-Ann: I wish that they did. But yeah, so I think that it was around 3:00 in the afternoon. I was around 6 centimeters. The head was coming down nicely. Baby was managing well. We were rotating positions every 30 minutes. I was using the peanut ball. About two and a half hours later, I was 7 centimeters. There was another midwife that came in to relieve my current midwife but they all were within the same practice, so they were very, very supportive. At this point, because I had been in labor for quite some time, I actually started to get a little bit of a fever. It's funny. This doctor came in to prescribe the antibiotics that were recommended by my midwives, they were preparing me. They were like, “Okay. He's going to come in. He has a history of telling women who are trying for VBACs that their babies are going to die and that they're going to die. So whatever he tells you, just ignore him and tell him that you want the antibiotics.” I was like, “Okay. I'm ready for whatever he tells me.” He comes in. He's like, “Yeah, let's just do some antibiotics. Sounds good,” and just walks out. The midwives look at each other in disbelief like, “I can't believe this just happened.” They were like, “This doctor does not do this.” They were like, “Who is this guy?” So that did help me a bit out with the fever, but again, we were starting to get around the 7:00 timeframe. Baby's heart rate baseline is now 155, but contractions are every two minutes. Now I'm about an 8, stretched to a 9 as far as progress goes. Baby was actually starting to move down nicely. I think it was at this point where I was like, “Oh my gosh. Is this really going to happen? I think this is going to happen.” I was in disbelief because it's kind of like one of those moments that you have dreamt about for so long and it's starting to come to fruition. You're like, “Wow. This is going to happen for me.” The midwife did the check and I was almost fully dilated. There was a little bit of a lip present. She was like, “I think you're going to do it.” I had goosebumps at that moment. I was like, “Oh my gosh. My midwife thinks that I'm going to do it.” So that was a pretty impactful thing for her to say to me. I think right before I started pushing, one other thing that happened was that I said to her, I'm like, “Do I have an Android pelvis?” Again, that fear came back into my mind coming back from that second birth that I had where he said that I have a small pelvis and that I would never do it with a baby that is bigger than 7 pounds. She shook her head so aggressively. She was like, “Your pelvis is fine. You are going to birth this baby no problem.” After that, it was go-time. I started pushing. I pushed for about an hour. Baby was born via forceps, but it was only because she had that elevated heart rate. Meagan: It was more of a time thing. Sarah-Ann: It was more of a time thing, yeah. My midwife was like, “I literally had no doubt in my mind that she would have come naturally on her own,” but we thought it was best to get her out at that point. So yeah, and then they put her on my chest and she was a surprise baby. She was a girl. There were lots of tears. Everybody was cheering because I had this big birth team that had been working with me for so long. Even my midwife, I was her first VBAC after two Cesareans. It was a very, very, very special moment. Meagan: That's amazing. Sarah-Ann: Yeah. Meagan: Congratulations. Sarah-Ann: Thank you. Meagan: So happy for you. I love it when she was like, “Your pelvis is fine.”Sarah-Ann: She was like, “There's nothing wrong with it.” Meagan: Oh man, that should be one of our next shirts. We sometimes will make– well, Julie would totally do it. She would make bonfire shirts based on quotes said in the podcast. “Your pelvis is fine.”Sarah-Ann: Yeah, exactly. Meagan: Oh my goodness. Well, huge congrats. That's so amazing, so amazing. And look at that, your pelvis was fine and your body could do it. Sarah-Ann: I should note that she was 8 pounds. She was over the 7-pound mark. Meagan: Bigger, yep. Because 7,15 was your first? Sarah-Ann: Yep: Meagan: And then what was your second again? Sarah-Ann: 9,5. 9,5. Meagan: 9,5. Sarah-Ann: Yep. Meagan: But it was OP. Sarah-Ann: Yep. Yeah. Meagan: Oh, that's so amazing. That's so amazing. Well, yeah. I'd love to talk about-- so we hate this word. We hate the word “failure”. It's really poor. When we say it, we're referring to it in the way that medical professionals use it as a “failure to progress”. Now, my little tidbit on this. If you see “failure”, try your hardest to know that you are not a failure if you don't give birth vaginally. You're not a failure if you decide to get an epidural. There is no failing in birth. You are birthing a human being. That is pretty stinking incredible. It doesn't really matter how you do it. It's remarkable. It's amazing. It's so many words. You guys are amazing. You are full of strength. Do we talk about a failure to progress or is it a failure to wait? We believe that a lot of times, it's a failure to wait. There's an ACOG study that shows that before, they would deem “failure to progress” more at that 4-centimeter stage, which is kind of where you mentioned with your births where you got to 4 centimeters, they broke your water which, I will touch on the way he said that then they would wait for 4 hours and it's done. Now, active labor isn't really accurately considered super active until 6 centimeters. So even at 4 centimeters, we shouldn't be deemed or given the term failure to progress. I was also given the term “failure to progress” and I was at 3 centimeters. Sarah-Ann: Yeah. Meagan: Yeah, and there's no cervical change meaning no effacement, no station change, nothing happening, and that's within a long time. So we have a blog about “Is it Failure to Progress or Failure to Wait?” and the things that may lead to failure to progress. One of them is breaking water prematurely. For my doula clients, they will always say, “Should I break my water?” That's a hard question because sometimes breaking your water can totally do the trick and get your baby here pretty quickly and smoothly and it's beautiful. Sometimes, it doesn't. It brings baby down. Baby's in a poor position. They start having heart rate issues and it's just a downward spiral from there. But breaking your water prematurely and the way your provider did it was like, “Hey, I'm here. We're going to get things going and I'm going to break your water.” I wanted to note to all of our listeners that a lot of providers do that. I don't think it's because they necessarily have any ill intent to say, “I'm doing this. You have no choice.” But the way they say it sometimes makes people feel like they have no choice. A lot of the time we go along with it kind of like you did. My water had already broken, but now I was just like, “Okay, they are telling me what they are going to do and they are just doing it.” I didn't really play a part in my birth in that way. Know it's okay to say, “Hold on. I'm not ready to break my water yet. Let's talk about it. Let's look at the factors.” I always tell my clients that with breaking your water, if it doesn't happen spontaneously or naturally and they are wanting to do it artificially, it's kind of a wildcard. We have to look at a lot of things like how high is baby? What is my baby's position? Do we know? How is my labor pattern? Is it strong and effective or is it early on and is that why we are breaking my water is to get things to try and go? There are so many little factors so definitely check out the blog. We will make sure it's in the show notes and then we will also include in the show notes the video that Sarah-Ann talked about that Julie did about the fear release because it's amazing. And then, yeah. Anything else that you would like to say about misconceptions and the whole shebang? Sarah-Ann: I think the best recommendation I could give is just to really, truly believe in yourself and just surround yourself with people who believe in you because that makes such a huge difference. I hear so many and read so many stories on The VBAC Link Community of people who don't have their group who are supportive and that's probably why they are at the Facebook group for that support, but it makes such a huge difference. I was very, very assertive with people in my circle saying, “If you have any sort of negative thoughts or opinions, I don't want to hear them. I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you will not see me until after I have this baby if that is the case.” Meagan: Mhmm, mhmm. Sarah-Ann: So having that group is really, really important. Meagan: It really is. We did that. I can't remember what they call it, a mother's blessing, but we did a little circle thing and we all did this yarn thing. It was really cool and we connected. So each time, we would wrap a piece of yarn around our circle. It was based on a positive affirmation and that piece of yarn was a strong affirmation. It stuck with me and I wore it all through labor and my birth. I just think it's so important to have those people who weren't all with me physically, but every time I looked down, I remembered my circle. I remembered their words. It touched me, made me stronger, and it encouraged me to keep going. So get your circle and hold onto them tight. Don't be scared to tell people that you love them and you are grateful for them, but they are not invited into your circle. It's okay to not have people in your circle. My mom wasn't initially one of the people in my circle. She wasn't super supportive. She didn't really understand why I wanted to have a vaginal birth. She thought it was scary. She didn't know some of the risks. All of these things. She told me that I was crazy. Lots of things, right? It was really hard for me not to have my mom in my circle, but at the same time, that's what I needed at the time to keep my circle positive. So yeah. I would definitely, definitely agree with that. Okay. Well, thank you so much again for being with us today. Sarah-Ann: Thank you. Yeah. I so appreciate it. I so enjoyed it, so thank you so much for the opportunity. Meagan: Absolutely.  ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Julie and Meagan's bios, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Have you wondered about the first birth story we ever shared on this podcast? Well, it's our story! And today we're bringing you the classic episode “Star Wars, Kiddie Pools, and Hypnobabies: Our Home Birth Story”. In this episode, Matthew and I sit down (well actually, lay down) with our first guest - less than a week old baby Maya. She lies quietly (for the most part, you might hear some coos and little grunts in the background at times) on Matthew's chest while we recount the story of our home birth, while it's still fresh in our minds. There were a lot of tears, a fair amount of blood, some laughs and so much love. So join us from our bedroom - where we made our baby, birthed her and are now hanging out with her and talking about the whole darn thing. Links From The Episode: Hypnobabies: https://www.hypnobabies.com/ Offers From Our Awesome Partners: Needed: https://bit.ly/2DuMBxP - use code DIAH to get 20% off your order C & The Moon Malibu Made Glow Oil with code DIAH15 for 15% off your order: https://bit.ly/3KWeGL1 Expectful - use the code DIAH25OFF for 25% off an annual membership: https://expectful.com/   More From Doing It At Home: The Home Birth Hub: www.diahpodcast.com/hub Doing It At Home book on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3vJcPmU DIAH Website: https://www.diahpodcast.com/ DIAH Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doingitathome/ DIAH YouTube: https://bit.ly/3pzuzQC DIAH Merch: https://bit.ly/3qhwgAe  Give Back to DIAH: https://bit.ly/3qgm4r9

Kula listeners get 20% off with code Kula20 at the Hypnobabies website!Hypnobirthing, and in particular, hypnobabies, teaches birthing people medical-grade somnambulistic hypnosis techniques, creating an automatically peaceful, relaxing and more comfortable pregnancy, a calm confident Birth Partner, and an easier, much more comfortable  natural birthing for pregnant students. In this episode, we talk to Kerry Tuschoff, the founder and director of Hypnobabies Childbirth Hypnosis, all about hypnobirthing and how it can help pregnant people to feel more confident going into labor and delivery. Founder and Director of Hypnobabies Childbirth Hypnosis, Kerry Tuschhoff is anationally renowned speaker and writer on a wide range of pregnancyand childbirth concerns. Her subjects include fertility, prenatal and childbirthchoices, informed consent issues, health and low-risk status concerns, comfortin childbirth, the power of birth language and midwifery advocacy. Kerry createda very comprehensive childbirth program; Hypnobabies ChildbirthEducation. This unique program has trained hundreds of thousands of women touse medical-grade hypnosis techniques and give birth unmedicated in a mucheasier and more comfortable way.We also talk about:The background of hypnobirthing and what is involved How Hypnobabies is different than traditional hypnobirthing The benefits of using hypnobirthing in childbirth The process and what to expect when choosing hypnobirthing for your birth experienceWho is a good candidate for this technique Kerry's company Hypnobabies Kerry's Resources:Visit her website: https://www.hypnobabies.com/IG @hypnobabiesofficialJoin our Kula village:Join the Kula waitlistFind us on IG: @hello.kulaAre you an expert?  Come work with us!Thanks for listening!

Why do women who've experienced a traumatic childbirth feel the need to share that experience, unsolicited, to a pregnant woman? That's the last thing an expecting mama needs or wants to hear! Sometimes it's hard to put up boundaries when you're expecting, but this week's guest had a few suggestions. Kerry Tuschhoff also discussed with Jill Devine the different birth plans available to expecting mamas, including hypnosis. Kerry is the Founder/Director of Hypnobabies®. Hypnobabies is a very successful 6 week, 3-hours per week, complete childbirth education course that was adapted with permission from Master Hypnotherapist Gerald Kein's “Painless Childbirth Program” techniques (medical grade, somnambulistic hypnosis). This allows Hypnobabies students to enjoy “eyes-open childbirth hypnosis”, easily remaining deeply in hypnosis while walking, talking and changing positions; being as mobile as they would like to be during childbirth. Hypnobabies is well-known for helping people create much shorter, easier and more comfortable labors, making childbirth the joyful experience it was meant to be. Hypnobabies contact information: 714-898-BABY (2229) https://www.facebook.com/Hypnobabies https://twitter.com/Hypnobabies https://www.youtube.com/user/Hypnobabies https://www.instagram.com/hypnobabiesofficial_/ https://www.pinterest.com/hypnobabies/ Two Kids and A Career Website: https://www.jilldevine.com/ Two Kids and A Career Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jilldevine/?hl=en Two Kids and A Career Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JillDevineMedia/ Thank you to our sponsors: Evoke Creative Blondin Professional Real Estate

In this episode we recap the past 100 episodes of the Entering Motherhood podcast. With 58 guest episodes, a 30 episode mini series to help heal your trauma, and 12 solo episodes (including this one) we have made it to 100 and it is such an accomplishment. Listen in on what the journey has been like, how we're feeling, and what's next to come. Please remember to hit subscribe from what ever platform you listen in on so you don't miss out on all the latest episodes. Early Episodes Episode 9 Episode 15 Heal Your Trauma, Mama Event Resources Page 2022 Spring Festival VBAC Birth Story Remember to please rate and review the podcast and to interact with our social media page to let others know about the podcast!   Official Affiliates: Made for Mama Shop The VBAC Link Postpartum University Hypnobabies Use code MOTHERHOOD20 for 20% Hypnobabies store   Podcasts Referenced in Episode: Her Pursuit (Episode 29) The Ash + Ivy Show For God So Loved The Mom   Connect more with The Entering Motherhood Podcast: Instagram: entering_motherhood and sarah_marie_bilger Facebook: EnteringMotherhoodPodcast Email: enteringmotherhood@gmail.com

In this episode we talk with Kerry Tuschhoff the founder and director of Hypnobabies Childbirth Hypnosis about her personal journey into motherhood, why she started Hypnobabies, and how the program continues to help individuals on their birthing journey and beyond. Founder and Director of Hypnobabies Childbirth Hypnosis, Kerry Tuschhoff is a nationally renowned speaker and writer on a wide range of women's pregnancy and childbirth concerns. Her subjects include prenatal and childbirth choices, informed consent issues, health and low-risk status concerns, comfort in childbirth, the power of birth language, and midwifery advocacy. As a childbirth educator for 30 years, a doula and hypnotherapist, Kerry has developed many educational programs for birthing mothers, medical and childbirth professionals and hypnotherapists. These efforts have become immensely popular and have started a chain-reaction of interest to change the way women give birth, how newborns are cared for, and the way natural childbirth is perceived by the general public as well as the medical community. Kerry created a very comprehensive natural childbirth program of her own; Hypnobabies Childbirth Education. This unique program has trained hundreds of thousands of women to use medical-grade hypnosis techniques and give birth unmedicated in a much easier and more comfortable way.   Connect more with Kerry Tuschhoff:   Twitter: hypnobabies   Facebook: Hypnobabies Instagram: hypnobabiesofficial Website: hypnobabies-store.com Use code MOTHERHOOD20 for 20% Hypnobabies store   Connect more with The Entering Motherhood Podcast: Instagram: entering_motherhood and sarah_marie_bilger Facebook: EnteringMotherhoodPodcast HYTM Event: healyourtraumamama

The first story of her son's birth was drastically different from her daughter's birth. Her son was born at a birth center after being in labor for over 26 hours (and pushing for two hours). Her daughter was born in the backseat of her car, after 15 hours of mild contractions and 5 hours of more intense contractions. She appreciates both of her experiences and is grateful to her husband, her main birthing partner in both births. She is also grateful for the Hypnobabies training that she and her husband completed in preparation for childbirth.  Links: Get Motif's Luna breast pump covered through insurance at motifmedical.com/birthhour. Know Your Options Online Childbirth Course Beyond the First Latch Course (or comes free with KYO course) Support The Birth Hour via Patreon!

Kerry Tuschhoff, HCHI, CHt, CI, is the Founder and Director of Hypnobabies Childbirth Hypnosis. Kerry is a nationally renowned speaker and writer on a wide range of women's pregnancy and childbirth concerns. Her subjects include prenatal and childbirth choices, informed consent issues, health, and low-risk status concerns, comfort in childbirth, the power of birth language, and midwifery advocacy. As a childbirth educator for 30 years, a doula, and a hypnotherapist, Kerry has developed many educational programs for birthing families, medical and childbirth professionals, and hypnotherapists. In this episode, you will hear about: What hypnosis really is about The Bradley Method Why Kerry created Hypnobabies (hypnosis for childbirth) Kerry's posterior birth experiences Upgrades to the Hypnobabies program Who would choose Hypnobabies as their childbirth education method? Hypnobabies tracks for different kinds of birth (c-section, vaginal, home, etc.) How fear can impact birthing How hypnosis can help Moms during the postpartum phase such as: Discomfort after birth Breastfeeding success Nipple soreness Relaxing after the baby is here Sleeping in sync with your baby Confidence as new parents Weight loss Smoking cessation Hypnobabies for fertility Hypnosis & affirmation tracks for each week of a woman's cycle Releasing an egg Conception Carrying a successful pregnancy Healthy sperm for the Father-to-be Learn more about what Hypnobabies is Find a Hypnobabies class near you Find an online Hypnobabies class Listen for free: Track # 1 – What is Hypnobabies Hypnosis for Childbirth? Listen for free: Track # 2 – Instantly Calm! Find a Hypno-Doula near you Become a certified Hypnobabies instructor Check out the various hypnosis tracks available such as: Cesarean Birth Preparation VBAC Success Birthing My Twins Naturally Connect with Kerry: Website: Hypnobabies.com Instagram: @hypnobabiesofficial_ YouTube: @Hypnobabies Facebook: @Hypnobabies Twitter: @Hypnobabies

Are you ready for the pain of labor? Whether we want to admit it or not, there is going to be pain. Whether or not we end up with an epidural, there are ways that we can prepare our mind and our body for those waves of contractions. The way we are going to discuss today is using Hypnobabies!    *I am re-sharing this episode from 2019 because there have been so many questions to learn about birth hypnosis! I hope you enjoy... Founder and Director of Hypnobabies, Kerry Tuschhoff, is here to explain how we can utilize Hypnobabies for pregnancy & birth. It is a method of Hypnotic Childbirth with real, medical-grade somnambulistic hypnosis techniques that create an automatically peaceful, relaxing and more comfortable pregnancy and birthing experience.  Whether you are currently pregnant, already had a child, want to have a child in the future, or are not even a parent at all, there is a track for you!  This episode is chalk-full of information and thoroughly explains what Hypnobabies is about, not to mention that Kerry is so sweet and has such a calming voice. USE PROMO CODE "MamasInTraining" at checkout for 20% off!  Click the link below to order any of the listening tracks or find an in-person class near you! Check out the Hypnobabies website here! ___________________________________________________   FOLLOW on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mamasintrainingpod/ WRITE a Review: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1474667560?mt=2&ls=1 JOIN our Facebook Community: https://urlgeni.us/facebook/mamasintrainingpod