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Play Episode Listen Later Mar 2, 2022 24:57

Humorist Ogden Nash once wrote, Some debts are fun when you are acquiring them, but none are fun when you set about retiring them. There's no question that it's easier to get into debt than to get out of it. Ron Blue joins Rob West to discuss what the Bible has to say about debt. Ron Blue is an author speaker and the co-founder ofKingdom Advisors. A HEART ISSUE Debt is more than just a money problem. Ron Blue says it is symptomatic of deeper issues. Money issues are heart issues. Debt is a money issue telling us that something in our heart is resulting in a problem in our wallet. We can't fix our financial mess or the heart issue behind it if we don't first stop to diagnose it and then deal with it. It's worth a bit of delay to fix what is really the problemfor our wallets and our hearts. Sometimes debt indicates a prevailing lack of contentment. Often it reveals a lack of self-discipline or pride. Other times it is motivated by a desire to be accepted. Debt can reveal someone's need to control a certain situation or be a symptom of short-term thinking over long-term planning. Whatever the root cause of your debt, there is grace in Christ to face it head-on and to overcome it. DEBT IS NOT A SIN, BUT THE BIBLE WARNS US ABOUT IT The Bible doesn't call going into debt a sin. But God always wants the best for us, so in His Word, He's put a lot of warnings about debt. Here are a few of them: First, debt enslaves us."The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is a slave to the lender"(Prov. 22:7). Debt obligates usdeeplyto the point of being a "slave" to the one who has loaned us money. When we have debt, we legally owe the lender first before we pay for anything else. Second, debt must be repaid. The alternative to repaying debt is tangible, material loss."Don't be one of those who enter agreements, who put up security for loans. If you have no money to pay, even your bed will be taken from under you"(Prov. 22:26-27). The third warning is that there's a real cost to borrowing. While debt seems "easy" in the moment, it always costs usmore and later. We pay dearly for today's desires because we pay using tomorrow's income, but with the added burden of interest on top. Debt is an easy path to a harder tomorrow. Jesus warned against dismissing the real cost of our choices when He said,"For which of you, wanting to build a tower, doesn't first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?(Luke 14:28). The fourth warning is that debt presumes on the future. We can't know what the future holds. When we choose debt, we place undue confidence in an unknown future. James 4:13-14 warns against this type of presumption."Come now, you who say, 'Today or tomorrow we will travel to such and such a city and spend a year there and do business and make a profit.' You don't even know what tomorrow will bringwhat your life will be! For you are like smoke that appears for a little while, then vanishes." But perhaps the reason the Bible doesn't call debt a sin is that not all debt is bad. Debt might make sense if the economic return is greater than the economic cost, such as a loan to start a business or get an education. Or a house that we expect to appreciate. If there is spiritual peace of mind and the decision does not violate biblical principles, taking out a loan might make sense in those circumstances. And finally, debt may be okay if it provides a solution for goals and objectives that can't be met in any other obvious way, like a medical emergency or job loss. But any other kind of debt is not good. Avoid it! LISTENER QUESTIONS On today's program, Rob also answers listener questions: ●Does it make sense to take money out of an IRA to invest it in gold? ●How does your income throughout your career affect your Social Security payments in retirement? RESOURCES MENTIONED ●Find a Certified Kingdom Advisor Remember, you can call in to ask your questions most days at (800) 525-7000 or email them toQuestions@MoneyWise.org. Also, visit our website atMoneyWise.orgwhere you can connect with a MoneyWise Coach, join the MoneyWise Community, and even download the free MoneyWise app. Like and Follow us on Facebook atMoneyWise Mediafor videos and the very latest discussion!Remember that it's your prayerful and financial support that keeps MoneyWise on the air. Help us continue this outreach by clicking theDonate tab on our websiteor in our app. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/1085/29

Choosing the Right Mortgage

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Play Episode Listen Later Feb 28, 2022 24:57

If you're buying a home, should you take out a 15-year mortgage or a 30-year mortgage? Both options have their advantages and disadvantages, but is there another option you haven't considered? We'll discuss that today on MoneyWise. 15 or 30? Arecent articleon the personal finance site Measure Twice Money gives the pros and cons of 15 vs. 30-year mortgages. It's a debate that's been raging for years. The 15-year mortgage is paid off quicker and saves tons of interest. The 30-year is budget friendly but costs much more in the long run. So if the money's in the budget, homebuyers often opt for the shorter-term mortgage. Crunch the numbers and you'll see why. BENEFITS AND DRAWBACKS OF BOTH A 30-year loan for $300,000 at 3.5% interest and a monthly payment of $1,350 means you pay $185,000 in total interest over the life of the loan. Your monthly payment is significantly lower than with a 15-year loan, but you're paying for that benefit big time over the years. If you choose the 15-year mortgage, the same loan at 3.5% interest would have a monthly payment of $2,150. That's $700 more a month than the 30-year loan. But the total interest paid over the term of the mortgage would be only $86,000. That's a huge reduction of $99,000 in total interest. No wonder people opt for the 15 if they can handle the payments. Now, I know what you're thinking the interest rate wouldn't be 3.5% with a 15-year mortgage. The rate would be lower than the 30-year mortgage. And you're right. So let's do the math again. With a 15-year, $300,000 loan at 3.0% interest, your monthly payment would be $2,070, and the total interest paid over the term of the mortgage would be only $73,000. That's even more of an argument for the 15-year loan. So the 15-year loan is great,but it does carry more risk than the 30-year. You're assuming you won't have a serious financial setback that prevents you from making those higher monthly payments. A 30-year note has risk also, but not as much. You also pay a ton of extra interest for that reduction in risk. But before you decide between them, consider a third option! THE HYBRID APPROACH That third option is the hybrid approach. The concept is simple: Get a 30-year mortgage, then pay it off like it's a 15-year loan. The 15-year mortgage has a lower interest rate and the 30-year mortgage has a lower monthly payment, but treating the 30 like a 15 gives you tremendous cash flow flexibility. There's a cost to this hybrid plan. If you go with the 30-year mortgage but pay it off exactly like a 15-year loan, your monthly payment would be a bit higher because the interest rate on a 30-year loan will likely be higher than a 15-year loan. However, that cashflow flexibility can be a huge help when the unexpected strikes. The COVID pandemic has revealed in no uncertain terms that we cannot predict the future. Of course, this hybrid approach isn't for everybody. You may have already saved up the recommended 3 to 6 months' living expenses in your emergency fund. You may have greater than normal job security. For you, a straight 15-year mortgage might make more sense. You would save money with a lower interest rate. But if you're in doubt, consider playing it safe and going with the 30-year mortgage. You can always make extra payments each month. Just be sure to designate that the extra money goes toward the principal of the loan. LISTENER QUESTIONS On today's program, Rob also answers listener questions: ●How can you freeze your credit to protect against fraud? ●How does employment income impact social security income? ●What are fixed annuities and are they good investments? ●What are the best investment options for a retiree after cashing in a CD? ●Is there a particular age at which you no longer have to pay taxes? ●Are pension and 401k withdrawals always taxable? RESOURCES MENTIONED ●Find a Certified Kingdom Advisor ●Sound Mind Investing Remember, you can call in to ask your questions most days at (800) 525-7000 or email them toQuestions@MoneyWise.org. Also, visit our website atMoneyWise.orgwhere you can connect with a MoneyWise Coach, join the MoneyWise Community, and even download the free MoneyWise app. Like and Follow us on Facebook atMoneyWise Mediafor videos and the very latest discussion!Remember that it's your prayerful and financial support that keeps MoneyWise on the air. Help us continue this outreach by clicking theDonate tab on our websiteor in our app. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/1085/29

Money Management for Students

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Play Episode Listen Later Feb 21, 2022 24:57

Soaring debt is a big problem for today's college graduates. And not just student loans. Some leave college with tons of consumer debt, too. Today on MoneyWise, we'll discuss how you or a loved one can graduate college with minimal debt. The average graduate with student loans owes around $37,000, a sum that could take 20 years to pay off. Proverbs 22:7 warns, The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower is slave of the lender. So every penny saved during your college years is a penny you won't have to earn later to pay off debt. TIPS TO MINIMIZE CONSUMER DEBT Now, how do you do that? The only way anyone can stay on top of their finances is by making a monthly budget and sticking to it. If you're in school, you're probably thinking, I don't make enough money to budget. But that's one of the biggest fallacies about finances. Budgets are important for everyone,and the less you make, the more critical it is to have a spending plan. A budget will help keep you focused on your spending as you try to stay on track. You'll have a much better idea of where your money is going. And to compliment that it's a good idea in the first few months to write down everything you spend. That alone will help you spend less. If you haven't downloaded the free MoneyWise app do it today. It will not only help you set up a budget it'll track all of your spending in real time. And as we often say if you're watching your spending you'll naturally do less of it. And that's what you want to do cut out all unnecessary spending. Paying $3 a day for designer coffee will cost you close to $100 a month. And when you're rushing from one class to the next,it's always tempting to just buy your lunch somewhere. But packing a sandwich and apple before you head out in the morning will save you a fortune. Next, think discounts. Most schools offer discounts to their students for things like concerts, plays and sporting events. But a lot of off-campus places, like restaurants and theaters, also offer special breaks and promotions for students. So, no matter where you go, pull out your student I.D. and ask for a discount. This next one is a little dicey, so we recommend it only if you've worked up your budget and you've been sticking to it for several months. But if you've done that, you can take advantage of award credit cards for students. You have to have at least an average credit score, but several of the big issuers have a special card for students. So, when you're paying your rent, utilities, groceries or any number of things, you can get a little something back. If you don't trust yourself with a regular credit card, you can get a secured card. They also offer rewards, so that's another way you can get cash back on your purchases without the risk of going into debt. With a secured card, you have to deposit cash into the account first and you can only spend up to that limit. Also, consider downloading an app that'll help you save money.Coupons.comis a good place to start, but many others likeShopsavvy,Coupon CabinandHoneymay also save you money. There are also plenty of campus network apps that help you share costs with other students. Look forGroupMe,WeChat, andKik. And since you need electives, why not take a class in personal finances, if one is offered? That's one course that will start paying dividends immediately. MINIMIZING STUDENT DEBT We've talked a lot about consumer debt, but by far the bigger problem facing today's graduates is student loan debt. One way to minimize debt is to hunt relentlessly for every possible available college scholarship. Another way is by getting a part time job while you're in school. Maybe you can earn enough to pay for food and a few other expenses. Full-time school plus a part-time job is a lot to handle, but plenty of students manage to work their way through school and keep their grades up. You'll be glad you did it later on when you graduate with less debt than many of your friends! LISTENER QUESTIONS On today's program, Rob also answers listener questions: ●Should you hang on to physical precious metal or sell it? ●When can you get private mortgage insurance removed from your home loan? ●When does it make sense to move investments into a fixed annuity? ●How do you determine whether it's best to keep your aging vehicle or buy a newer car? RESOURCES MENTIONED ●Find a Certified Kingdom Advisor Remember, you can call in to ask your questions most days at (800) 525-7000 or email them toQuestions@MoneyWise.org. Also, visit our website atMoneyWise.orgwhere you can connect with a MoneyWise Coach, join the MoneyWise Community, and even download the free MoneyWise app. Like and Follow us on Facebook atMoneyWise Mediafor videos and the very latest discussion!Remember that it's your prayerful and financial support that keeps MoneyWise on the air. Help us continue this outreach by clicking theDonate tab on our websiteor in our app. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/1085/29

Intro to Crypto With Mark Biller

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Play Episode Listen Later Feb 15, 2022 24:57

The word crypto itself means secret or hidden. So it's no wonder that so many people are confused about cryptocurrency. Today, investing expert Mark Biller joins Rob West to answer common questions about cryptocurrency. Mark Biller is executive editor atSound Mind Investing. The primary focus of crypto, at least at this point, is creating a new, digital financial system. It's bigger than just trying to come up with a new form of money, but since everyone is familiar with money, that's a good place to start. The key to this new kind of money is that it's decentralized. It's not controlled by governments as with other currencies. THE BEGINNING In 2008, an anonymous white paper was released that outlined a new digital currency called Bitcoin.This vision was of a peer-to-peer currency outside the control of any government. Somewhat amazingly, this whole white paper was only 9 pages long anyone can download it and read it. Needless to say, this Bitcoin idea has captured the imagination of millions of people. Besides being decentralized and outside of any government control, Bitcoin checks all of the boxes of functional money: durability, portability, fungibility, scarcity, divisibility, and recognizability. And importantly and in direct contrast to the inflationary monetary policies that we're seeing around the world today Bitcoin was designed from the beginning to be sound money. Unlike government currencies which are constantly being devalued by printing more, there is a fixed cap of 21 million Bitcoins that can ever be produced. Frankly, Bitcoin has a lot of the same sound-money appeals that have long attracted people to gold. And that's how it's often described, as digital gold. RAPID GROWTH The value of Bitcoin has raced ahead at an astonishing pace since the first digital Bitcoin was produced in January 2009. As more people have bid for the slowly growing supply of available Bitcoins, the price has risen dramatically, although with staggering volatility. Bitcoin has an estimated 76 million owners already and proponents expect its explosive growth to continue. With a global population of nearly 8 billion people and the real-world applications for Bitcoin only beginning to be explored, there's a lot of room for optimism. HOW DOES IT WORK? The first thing to understand is cryptocurrencies run on something called a Blockchain. A blockchain is a record of transactions updated and maintained by a decentralized network of computers. The big idea is that instead of a centralized ledger like your bank maintains, a blockchain allows a decentralized network of computers to record and maintain a record of transactions. Why is this important? Because we're seeing the breakdown of trust in centralized institutions everywhere in society today. Whether that's distrust of what the Fed is doing with our money, what the global health institutions are telling us, or more specific examples like the big tech companies de-platforming people whose opinions they disagree with, the appeal of being able to accomplish a lot of these same tasks in a decentralized way that doesn't require blind trust in the institution controlling the ledger or database is a big deal. The bottom line is most crypto projects take something we're already familiar with: currency, saving, lending, and so on, that normally require us to interact with a big institution, and redesigning that function using computer code in a way that enables groups to accomplish it in a trustless, decentralized way. THE RISKS There's a lot of excitement around crypto, but it's important to understand how new all this still is. At this stage of development, cryptocurrencies are still more of a speculation than an investment. So, a couple important warnings apply: First, the volatility in crypto is unlike anything most people have ever experienced. We've seen this firsthand over the past year, as Bitcoin and the rest of the crypto universe has dropped by 50% not just once, but twice. Multiple times in its short history, the whole crypto space has fallen more than 80%. So basically think of investing in tech stocks, and then realize crypto is going to be about four times as volatile as that. Second, there's still a risk that a lot of today's crypto will ultimately end up worthless. This shouldn't be a shock we saw tons of Internet companies disappear 20 years ago as the Internet was going mainstream. The same winnowing process is likely in crypto over the next several years. And one of the biggest risks, in my opinion, is how governments are going to react as Bitcoin or any of these other cryptos threaten their stranglehold over money. Governments get a lot of benefits from controlling their currencies, and giving people a way to opt out of the official money via something like Bitcoin is likely to ruffle feathers. Not to mention that any big bank or other entrenched financial interest isn't going to be keen on having a new better alternative take their business away. So we're probably arriving at the now they fight you stage of crypto's development. SHOULD YOU PUT MONEY IN CRYPTO? Mark Biller says the first thing to establish is that most investors don't need this, in the same way they don't need to invest in other speculative investments. We'd never tell a retiree to go put a bunch of their money in semiconductor stocks or any other speculative investment, and the same is true with crypto. So if you don't understand this stuff, don't feel like you're missing out. If crypto really holds all the promise the optimists think it does, there will be chances in the future to participate with less risk as the whole industry matures over the next several years. For younger folks who want to put a toe in this pool and start learning about it, Mark advises taking it slow and keeping investments very small. Remember, crypto is still a speculation rather than a traditional investment. Approach it with the same level of caution you'd take with the riskiest pieces of a portfolio. So if you insist on investing in cryptocurrency now, make sure you do it with money that you can afford to never see again. Is that about right? You can read Mark Biller's article, Intro to Crypto at SoundMindInvesting.org. LISTENER QUESTIONS On today's program, Rob also answers listener questions: ●Should you take money out of savings to pay off debt or simply continue paying more than the minimum each month to pay it off more quickly? ●How can you get a handle on your finances as a one-income family? RESOURCES MENTIONED ●Find a Certified Kingdom Advisor ●Christian Credit Counselors Remember, you can call in to ask your questions most days at (800) 525-7000 or email them toQuestions@MoneyWise.org. Also, visit our website atMoneyWise.orgwhere you can connect with a MoneyWise Coach, join the MoneyWise Community, and even download the free MoneyWise app. Like and Follow us on Facebook atMoneyWise Mediafor videos and the very latest discussion!Remember that it's your prayerful and financial support that keeps MoneyWise on the air. Help us continue this outreach by clicking theDonate tab on our websiteor in our app. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/1085/29

Latest Smartphone Scams

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 10, 2022 24:57

Scammers are always on the lookout for new and creative ways to vacuum money from your wallet. Today on MoneyWise, we'll reveal the latest scams to watch out for involving your smartphone. If you're like most people, your phone contains personal and banking information that, if fallen into the wrong hands, could cost you a lot of money, not to mention time and headaches. BE A GOODBUT SMARTSAMARITAN! One of the latest smartphone scams involves a stranger coming up to you on the street and asking to use your phone for an emergency. Of course you want to help, so you hand over your phone. But later you discover that the person you were trying to help stole from your bank account using a money transfer app like Venmo or Zelle. It takes only seconds to do. Here's how to avoid this scam: You shouldn't give a stranger your phone for any reason. Instead, offer to call the number for them and give a message while keeping the stranger at arm's length. If you sense possible danger, don't be afraid to decline to help. You can be polite and firm at the same time. BEWARE OF FAKE APPS Another scam involves look-alike apps. They're apps that look and possibly act like the real ones, but they're really malware that will snatch your personal and financial information. Other look-alike apps might track your location using your phone's GPS. Then the scam artists knows when you leave the house, making it easy pickings for a burglary. Another look-alike app might contain ransomware that will lock your phone or encrypt your data until you pay the scammer a ransom. You can avoid look-alike apps by only downloading apps from trusted sources, like the official app store on your iPhone or Android device. If you are the victim of ransomware, and if it was downloaded by clicking a link, take a picture of the message or page - if your phone still allows you to. Then turn off your phone and take it to an IT professional who might be able to defeat the ransomware and turn control of your phone back to you. BEWARE OF FAKE FREE GIFT Another smartphone scam targets Verizon customers. You may receive a text, seemingly from Verizon, saying, Bill paid. Thank you. Here's a little gift for you. Then there's a link that takes you to a fictitious website. There you might be told that in order to receive your gift you have to give your name, address, phone number, and social security number. You wouldn't think anyone would fall for that, but some do, only to have their identity stolen. Always beware of free gifts. If you receive a text like that, call Verizon or whoever your carrier is and ask if it's legitimate. When in doubt, never click a link. AVOID THE TECH SUPPORT SCAM Next there's the tech support scam. The scammer poses as a technician from your carrier who wants to fix a fake problem with your phone. Here's how you know this is a scam: - You didn't reach out to tech support. - The so-called technician is very pushy. - They ask for remote access to your phone. - The technician insists that you wire money, use a gift card or a money transfer app. When in doubt, call your carrier to verify authenticity. If you've already been scammed by a fake technician, change any passwords you might have given the scammer and notify your bank or credit card issuer to block any transactions with that individual. LISTENER QUESTIONS On today's program, Rob also answers listener questions: ●After pulling money out of the stock market in 2020, is now a good time to reinvest in stocks? ●Is it wise to take money out of an investment account to pay off a mortgage? ●How do you manage your retirement resources if you don't play to entirely retire? ●Would it be wise to tap into your home's equity to buy an investment property? RESOURCES MENTIONED ●Find a certified Kingdom Advisor Remember, you can call in to ask your questions most days at (800) 525-7000 or email them toQuestions@MoneyWise.org. Also, visit our website atMoneyWise.orgwhere you can connect with a MoneyWise Coach, join the MoneyWise Community, and even download the free MoneyWise app. Like and Follow us on Facebook atMoneyWise Mediafor videos and the very latest discussion!Remember that it's your prayerful and financial support that keeps MoneyWise on the air. Help us continue this outreach by clicking theDonate tab on our websiteor in our app. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/1085/29

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Help for Special Needs Kids

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Play Episode Listen Later Feb 4, 2022 24:57

Raising a family often presents financial challenges. That's especially true for parents of kids with special needs. But families with a disabled child now have a special, tax-advantaged savings plan that can help meet those extra expenses. We'll tell you about that account today on MoneyWise. 529-ABLE ACCOUNTS The plan is called a 529-ABLE or 529-A savings plan, and it's a huge help for families caring for a member with special needs. Surprisingly, most families and individuals with special needs aren't taking advantage of 529-A plans. Many parents aren't even aware that these accounts even exist. And those who do know about them still have a lot of questions about how they work. We talk about the 529 education savings plan a lot on the program, and the 529-A plan is nearly identical. Contributions aren't tax-deductible, but they're allowed to grow tax-deferred. Then, when you withdraw money from the account for qualified expenses, that money is not taxed. Both plans are established by the states, and in most cases, the same state agency will administer both programs. The tax benefits are identical. Contributions to a 529A account are made with after-tax dollars and are limited to $16,000 a year (in 2022). You can actually contribute more than that, but you'll have to file IRS Form 709 for reporting gifts. Earnings on those funds are tax-deferred and distributions are tax free for qualified expenses. The IRS refers to these as qualified disability expenses, or QDEs.A QDE is any expense related to the account owner's blindness or disability that assists them in maintaining their health, independence or quality of life. These would include money spent for education, housing, transportation, job training, assistive technology, health care, and financial management. In short, any expensethat the 529-A beneficiary might have as a result of being disabled. You should keep receipts for all disability related spending, but some ABLE programs also have ways to track your spending online. It's a good idea to keep a record of how each expense is related to the disability and how it helped the beneficiary. This could come in handy if you're audited by the IRS. If the money is used for non-qualified expenses, it's taxed at ordinary income rates and is subject to a 10-percent penalty just like the education savings plan. Now, how do the 529 and 529-A plans differ? A major distinction is eligibility. For the 529-A, the beneficiary must meet the Social Security Administration's definition of disabled. In very simple terms, that would be something that prevents the person from being able to earn a living. Another key difference is that there's an age limit for setting up a 529-A plan: 26. The beneficiary must be diagnosed with a qualifying disability before that age. And unlike the education savings version, there can only be one 529-A savings account per beneficiary, and all qualified spending must be within the beneficiary's state of residence. That's very different from the 529 plan, where multiple accounts are allowed, you can choose a plan from any state, and spend the money for school in any state. So there are some restrictions with the 529-A plan. But those limits aren't insurmountable, especially compared to the benefits of the program. In addition to the tax benefits, the beneficiary is still eligible for federal and state aid for the disabled. On the federal level, that aid could be Supplemental Security Income or Medicaid. And states may provide additional benefits. The beneficiary is only denied those benefits if the balance in the 529-A account exceeds $100,000. But even then, the suspension isn't permanent. Once the balance falls below that amount, the beneficiary is again eligible for aid. Now, it would be great if every family with a disabled member could open a 529-A account, but unfortunately not every state offers one. There are still a few hold outs, so you have to check if your state has a plan. But if you're caring for a special needs person and your state has a plan, you need to make the most of it. You want to make sure the disability is diagnosed before age 26, and you want to contribute as much as you can every year up to the limit. You also need to get very familiar with the list of qualified expenses so you can take maximum advantage of the plan. You can go toIRS.govfor more information on that. LISTENER QUESTIONS On today's program, Rob also answers listener questions: ●When does it make sense to pull money out of the stock market and make your investments more conservative? ●What questions should you ask when trying to find the CPA/financial advisor? RESOURCES MENTIONED ●Find a Certified Kingdom Advisor Remember, you can call in to ask your questions most days at (800) 525-7000 or email them toQuestions@MoneyWise.org. Also, visit our website atMoneyWise.orgwhere you can connect with a MoneyWise Coach, join the MoneyWise Community, and even download the free MoneyWise app. Like and Follow us on Facebook atMoneyWise Mediafor videos and the very latest discussion!Remember that it's your prayerful and financial support that keeps MoneyWise on the air. Help us continue this outreach by clicking theDonate tab on our websiteor in our app. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/1085/29

Improve Your Credit Score With Neile Simon

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Play Episode Listen Later Feb 3, 2022 24:57

Did you know that Improving your credit score by just a few points could save you hundreds of dollars a year? It's true. Your credit score tells lenders three things:whetherto lend to you; howmuchto lend to you; and at whatinterest rate. Neile Simon joins Rob West today with tips to improve your credit score. Neile Simon is a Certified Credit Counselor withChristian Credit Counselors. CREDIT SCORE DETERMINING FACTORS The following factors will determine your credit score: ●Payment History: 35%.Paying your bills is hands-down the most important factor. ●Credit Utilization: 30%.Try to keep your credit balances below 30% of your total available credit. ●Length of Credit History: 15%.The longer your track record, the better. ●New Credit: 10%.When you apply for new credit, inquiries remain on your credit report for two years. FICO Scores only consider inquiries from the last 12 months. (source: myfico.com) ●Types of Credit:10%. Paying on-time on a variety of different types of loans can help, brut is by no means the most important factor. THE IMPORTANCE OF A STRONG CREDIT SCORE Your credit score can affect numerous things, such as: ●Your credit score could affect your ability to rent a home or apartment ●Prospective employers may check your credit score to determine how responsible you are. ●Those with poor credit may have to pay large deposits to hook up utilities are open a non-prepaid cell phone account. ●Your credit can also impact your ability to start a business or take advantage of other opportunities. HOW TO IMPROVE YOUR CREDIT SCORE If your credit isn't great, here are a few tips to improve it: ●Pay your bills on time! Again, this is the biggest factor determining your credit score. ●Become an authorized user on someone else's credit account. Just be aware that if they are late on their payments, it could adversely affect you too. ●Open a secured credit card account. This type of account allows you to make a cash deposit to secure your line of credit. This can be a great option for a young person with no credit history. ●Credit cards that offer higher interest but not as strict with credit history. Examples: Credit One, First Premier. ●Get your credit reports from Experian, TransUnion and Equifax to ensure there is no incorrect information. You can access your reports atAnnualCreditReport.com. ●If you find any errors on your report, dispute them! ●If you have debts in collections, work with your creditor to make the account current or at least agree to structure payment arrangements. ●Get credit for making rent and utility payments on time. Several companies offer the service of reporting your payments to the credit bureaus. HOW CREDIT COUNSELING CAN HELP Sometimes, you need help to get on top of your debt. That's critical for improving your credit.Christian Credit Counselorscan be a great option. Christian Credit Counselors does not arrange debtconsolidation. Instead, they help you set up a debtmanagementprogram to pay off your debts in full up to 80% faster, at a lower interest rate and with very manageable payments. Working with a credit counseling agency does not negatively affect your credit score. A combination of the high balances and how many accounts you close is what will determine your credit score at the start of the Debt Management Program. As you pay down your balances and pay off your accounts through the program, your score will continue to improve. Your credit report will show a history of consistent on time payments and it will show that your balances are decreasing and accounts are being paid off. When you complete your Debt Management Plan not only will you be debt free but you'll also see an improvement in your credit score and overall financial situation. LISTENER QUESTIONS On today's program, Rob also answers listener questions: ●What is the best way to invest money for the short term for a family with three young kids? ●When does it make sense to take money out of savings and invest it? RESOURCES MENTIONED ●Find a Certified Kingdom Advisor ●Sound Mind Investing Remember, you can call in to ask your questions most days at (800) 525-7000 or email them toQuestions@MoneyWise.org. Also, visit our website atMoneyWise.orgwhere you can connect with a MoneyWise Coach, join the MoneyWise Community, and even download the free MoneyWise app. Like and Follow us on Facebook atMoneyWise Mediafor videos and the very latest discussion!Remember that it's your prayerful and financial support that keeps MoneyWise on the air. Help us continue this outreach by clicking theDonate tab on our websiteor in our app. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/1085/29

Our True Source of Hope

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Play Episode Listen Later Feb 1, 2022 24:57

Do you fear the future and the uncertainty that comes with it? We never know what tomorrow will bring, but we can be confident if we know our true source of hope. We'll find peace of mind rooted in God's Word today on MoneyWise. LET'S TALK ABOUT HOPE Jeremiah 29:11 reads, For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. When we walk with Christ, our hope focuses on the eternal. Putting our hope in the One who promised to rise from the dead and did! He keeps all of His promises. In Matthew 6, Jesus tells His disciples, Do not be anxious, saying, What shall we eat?' or What shall we drink?' or What shall we wear?' For your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. And in Philippians 4:6, Paul gives us a prescription for confidence. He says, Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. We never want to put our hope in our bank account, because that would be putting our trust in our money. And the Bible is clear you cannot serve two masters. You can serve God OR money, but not both. WHY DO WE DESPAIR? America is the richest nation in history. Most of our poor are far better off than most people around the world. Yet we often find ourselves in despair and without hope. It could be that our expectations come from looking at others around us and then falling into the deadly comparison trap. Our expectations become relative to the Joneses next door. We assume that God will make us at least as successful as the guy in the cubicle next to us. That leads to another problem if we begin to think that we're not blessed because we aren't spiritual enough. Then we begin to worry that others will think we aren't very spiritual. Otherwise, God would bless us. This is entirely unbiblical. God promises to provide for our needs, not our wants. And we will have difficulties in life financial and otherwise. And the Bible tells us how to deal with them. In James 1 we're told, Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds. And in Romans 5, More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance. God uses trials in life to shape our character into the image of Christ. Because you are saved by faith and not of your own works you're already spiritual enough. We're to follow the financial principles laid out in the Bible. Earn, save and giv, and then rely on God for the results. High prices and rising inflation don't negate His principles. Still, when the primary provider in a household can't provide as much as those around him or her, discouragement and fear may set in. And that can be especially troublesome for parents if they're unable to shower their kids with expensive gifts like the neighbors do. Too often, they resort to credit cards and debt, hoping to not disappoint the kids. SHARING ONE ANOTHER'S BURDENS And sometimes those around us have real needs and are struggling. What if their financial needs could be helped by the abundance God has blessed most of us with? What if that's the exact reason God's given some people more than they require? The church in Acts 2 is our model for helping, supporting and feeding one another. There we read, They had all things in common and began selling their property and possessions, and were sharing them all, as anyone might have need. Of course, that doesn't mean we should live communally. But meeting each other's needs when someone is going through a difficult time is the minimum God expects. Proverbs 17 reminds us A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for adversity And our love for one another is supposed to be the chief sign to the world of our changed lives and Whom we serve God, the source of all our hope. LISTENER QUESTIONS On today's program, Rob also answers listener questions: ●How are Social Security payments structured for widows? ●How can you build your credit without credit cards? ●What are your options to invest in a faith-based way? RESOURCES MENTIONED ●Find a Certified Kingdom Advisor Remember, you can call in to ask your questions most days at (800) 525-7000 or email them toQuestions@MoneyWise.org. Also, visit our website atMoneyWise.orgwhere you can connect with a MoneyWise Coach, join the MoneyWise Community, and even download the free MoneyWise app. Like and Follow us on Facebook atMoneyWise Mediafor videos and the very latest discussion!Remember that it's your prayerful and financial support that keeps MoneyWise on the air. Help us continue this outreach by clicking theDonate tab on our websiteor in our app. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/1085/29

Body Liberation Through Photos With Lindley Ashline

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Play Episode Listen Later Nov 10, 2021 53:48

My guest this week is the fierce and fabulous Lindley Ashline, fat-positive photographer and body liberation activist, who has literally BANNED the weight loss industry from using her stock photos. In this glorious episode, Lindley tells how she pushed back when a diet company tried to do just that! The AUDACITY of diet companies and the weight loss industry is next level, but they were no match for Lindley! Join us for a completely fired up, inspiring conversation with a woman who takes no bullshit, AND takes staggeringly awesome photos! Shownotes Lindley has a stock photo website where she sells body positive, fat-positive photos. Most of her stock photos customers are health at every size oriented or anti-diet or body positivity folk who are marketing their small businesses. People who model for these those stock photos are vulnerable. They may have multiple marginalised identities, including people of colour, and they are also people in very large bodies who experience discrimination and stigma just by living in their bodies. Lindley points out that when you buy stock photos from her, you have to agree that you will respect to use the photos as the license specifies that you cannot use them to promote dieting or the weight loss industry. “If I am going to set out to create body positive and fat positive stock photos and work with people in marginalized bodies to start with, I can't allow those photos to be used in ways that will hurt people,” says Lindley. The body positivity movement is rampant, and ripe for co-opting. Dove was the first company to monetize the body positivity movement at a grand scale. Lindley shares her outrage when she discovered that diet company "The Whole 30" had purchased one of her images, which was in breach of the licence. She pushed back and refused to let them use it. Body positivity movements are amazing as they are driving the increased visibility of diversity that's happening around the planet. Lindley reiterates that we have a generation of companies that simultaneously sell us the thin ideal and then turn around and tell us that it is our fault for not loving our bodies. That is trauma culturally and individually. Lindley shares her history and how she came to quit her job and devote herself full time to photographing diverse bodies. The foundation of the body positivity movement is the fat acceptance movement, which started in the 1960s. People love the idea of diversity and allow the idea that large, small, and everyone in between can exist, says Louise. But when it comes to our own bodies, this is MUCH harder. If Lindley & Louise were in the same room talking about weight science, weight stigma, and the need to a radical change, the possibility is that Louise's voice would listen to more, just because of weight stigma. When marginalized people are allowed to speak, be angry, and be believed, it's very threatening to the status quote, says Lindley. Because of the nature of our culture, the folks who are of average size think that they are much larger, says Lindley. Lindley says that she is always looking for the largest possible bodies to represent diversity. Lindley is from the South in the USA. She was taught in history classes in school that slavery wasn't all that bad because people were nice to their slaves and let them live in the house. But 'smiling oppression' is still oppression. It's not ok. If we see ourselves represented everywhere and see other people represented everywhere, nothing looks unusual, and from here we can grow an appreciation of the beauty of diversity. The more we see all kinds of bodies, the more normal they become, and the more you can expose yourself, the faster it will work. Take nudes! Start small (a toe poking out of the bath) and play with the idea. Body liberation is for you, not a performance we do for the world. Resources Mentioned Find out more about Lindley here Follow Lindley on Insta @bodyliberationwithlindley

Body Liberation Through Photos With Lindley Ashline

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 10, 2021 53:48

My guest this week is the fierce and fabulous Lindley Ashline, fat-positive photographer and body liberation activist, who has literally BANNED the weight loss industry from using her stock photos. In this glorious episode, Lindley tells how she pushed back when a diet company tried to do just that! The AUDACITY of diet companies and the weight loss industry is next level, but they were no match for Lindley! Join us for a completely fired up, inspiring conversation with a woman who takes no bullshit, AND takes staggeringly awesome photos! Show Transcript Intro: Welcome to All Fired Up. I'm Louise your host, and this is the podcast where we talk all things anti-diet. Have diet culture got you in a bit of rage/ is the injustice of the beauty ideal? Getting your nickers in a twist? Does fitspo make you want to spitspo? Are you ready to hurl if you hear one more weight loss tip? Are you ready to be mad, loud and proud? Well, you've come to the right place. Let's get all fired up. Hello, passionately pissed off people of diet culture. I am so excited for some episode of All Fired Up. And thank you to all of the listeners who send messages of outrage to me via email louise@untrapped.com.au. If something about diet culture is really getting your go, let me know about it, get it off your chest. And who knows, we might be able to rant about it here on All Fired Up. And if you are a listener, don't forget to subscribe, so you don't miss episodes when they pop out. And while you're at it, why not leave us a lovely five star review and rating wherever you listen to your podcast, because the more five star reviews we get, the more people listen, the quicker diet culture topples, and then I can go and become a florist. As the COVID crisis unravels, more and more people are banging on about the relationship between weight and health. And if that's really getting up your nose and you want a strong resource to help you push back against that, and you want something for free; look no further then now wonderful ebook, ‘Everything you've Been Told About Weight Loss is Bull Shit' co-written by me and the wonderful Dr. Fiona Willer, anti-diet dietician, and general all-round awesome person. In this ebook, we are busting wide open the diet culture bullshit myths about this relationship. Because when you look under the hood and scratch the surface just a tiny, tiny bit, we see that all of this BMI stuff is complete bullshit, and it's great to have a booklet in which all of the scientific evidence to support the health at every size and anti-diet approaches can be presented to people who are still upholding the greatest injustice when it comes to health. So have a look for the ebook, it's at untrapped.com.au, and a little popup will happen, and you can download it from there. Give it to all your friends and all your family. Put it in their stockings for people for Christmas, give it away, trick or treating for Halloween. Hell you know, give it away instead of Easter eggs, just get it out there to as many people as possible because just so over this groaning insistence that size is all accounts when it comes to health. If you're looking for more free stuff and you're struggling with your relationship with your body, because let's face it – who doesn't in diet culture. Have a look at the Befriending Your Body eCourse, which is completely free. You can find that on untrapped_au on Insta. In this course, basically you'll get like an email from me for 10 days. Every day for 10 days, you get a lovely little email from me talking through the wonderful skill of self-compassion, which is essentially literally learning how to become your body's best friend and become your own best friend as you wade through the of diet culture. So have a look for that course, as I said, it's on Instagram, it's completely free. What have you got to lose? Huge shout out to all of the Untrapped community. Untrapped is my online community and masterclass for all things anti-diet. Untrapped has been around since 2017. And we have built ourselves into this wonderful online group of fierce and fantastic people. If you are struggling with your relationship with food, with how you are moving, with your body, with just generally trying to get along in diet culture with all of the pressure that's heaped upon us every day and you're just absolutely sick of dieting; have a look at our Untrapped course and community because we would really love to have more people join us. You can find it at untrapped.com.au. Louise: Okay, let's get into the nitty-gritty. Shall we? I'm so excited in this episode, I'm having this awesome conversation with fat activist, photographer, author, and cat mom, Lindley Ashline. Lindley is the creator of Body Liberation Photos and does some really amazing ethically produced diverse stock photos of people in larger bodies. And, oh my gosh, how much do we actually need this kind of stuff. So I had the most amazing ranty conversation with Lindley. You are going to absolutely love her. So without further ado, here's me and Lindley. Lindley, thank you so much for coming on the show. Lindley: Oh, thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Louise: Me too. So tell me, what's firing you up at the moment? Lindley: Well, when we were emailing back and forth talking about doing this podcast episode you had said, I want to hear what's firing you up, and I would love to hear you talk about stock photos, which are photos that can be used for marketing that people buy from other people. And also, wondering if you've experienced any diet culture co-opting of your work. And I immediately said, I have all that put together because I do have the stock photo website where I sell my photos. And most of my clients, my stock photo customers are health at every size oriented, or anti-diet, or body positivity folks who are marketing their small businesses. But the other day there is a diet that is probably familiar to you, that is very big here in the United States, that is called Whole30. Louise: Whole30, is that the Brene Brown one? Was she doing that? Lindley: Oh, I don't know. Louise: I'm sorry. Lindley: That's very, very trendy here. So, someone from Whole30, the company that runs that diet bought some of my stock photos. Louise: Oh no. Lindley: To use for an event. And I know this because I reacted to that. I'm a small business, so I do sell a decent number of stock photos, but I'm not at the point where I don't see every order as it comes in. So every time someone buys something from me, I get an email, of course, and I'm always curious, who's buying things. So I saw this such-and-such a name @whole30.com. And I said, wait a minute. Because not only do I not want… my photos are, they're mostly people in larger bodies or fat bodies. When I use the word fat, I'm using it as a neutral descriptor of people's bodies and not an insult. You don't have to use that word for yourself, but I have reclaimed it and many other people have too. Louise: That's such a beautiful way of putting it. Thank you. Lindley: Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's like saying that I'm a medium height, or if I were tall or short, I have long hair. It's just a descriptor. But the people who appear in those photos, they are in vulnerable bodies themselves. They are often people of color. They are people in very large bodies; people who experience a lot of discrimination and stigma just by living in their bodies. And not only do I not want those bodies being used to represent diet… Louise: Yeah, like they're not before photos. Lindley: Yeah. No, but also when I started creating stock photos, I worked with a lawyer to create my license that you are bound by when you buy these photos, you have to agree that you're going to respect this license to use the photos, and in the license, it specifies that you cannot use them to promote diets. Louise: You are terrific. So they're buying it in breach of your licensing already. Lindley: Yeah. If I'm going to set out to create body-positive and fat-positive stock photos, and work with people who are in marginalized bodies to start with; I can't allow those photos to be used in ways that will hurt people. Louise: How dare they. They have the audacity. Lindley: I was very fired up speaking into the theme. Oh, I was fired up and I said, no, how you. I immediately messaged my best friend and said, how dare they. And so, I emailed her, I issued her a refund. So here's what I did; I issued her a refund for the money that she's paid. I deleted her account. I couldn't delete the account, so I changed her password on her. I couldn't delete it, but I could change the password. And then I emailed her and said I have refunded your money, you may not use these photos, my license prohibits you from doing so. And that's that. Louise: So, did she respond to you? Lindley: Well, to make it even better, she had put her work email address in when she placed the order. But for her billing address, she was using a corporate credit card. So she had put as the email for the credit card, she had put in the corporate address. So I emailed her, but I CC'd the whole company. Louise: Oh my God. That's fantastic. Lindley: CC'd headquarters@whole30.com. I'm sure that maybe just a random assistance, someone deleted it, but like, I'm sure it didn't go to all the employees, but that was very satisfying. Louise: That is very satisfying. So she did email? Lindley: Yeah, she emailed right back and sent me kind of an indignant email. And she did say that they wouldn't use the photos. I keep meaning to go check and see if they actually did. But she was very indignant because she said we were going to use these for an event to promote body positivity next month, and I guess we won't. And I'm like, yeah, I guess you won't. Louise: What are you doing in the field of so-called body positivity if you're a diet company? Lindley: And that's the co-opting, that aspect of it. Because now, like Weight Watchers has changed its name formally to WW. What does that even mean? Like, we all know it's Weight Watchers, we're not stupid Louise: Well, they think that we might be. Do you remember in the eighties when Kentucky Fried Chicken decided to improve its brand by going to KFC, because then it wouldn't be fried. Lindley: But it's still fried chicken. Louise: Yeah. And this is still like, we want your money. Lindley: Yeah. And they've realized that people are wising up. Louise: We know that their diets are shit. Lindley: Yeah. They don't work, and in fact, they're worse for you, for your health than not dieting than being at a stable weight. Louise: Yeah. And then they're like, well, we can't have that, so let's launch into the field that grew around resistance to us, and let's nick everything, including their stock imagery. And how dare they run a body positivity event when they're in the business of shrinking bodies. Lindley: And as we move forward in time, you're going to see more and more of this because there is a lot of profit in telling people to love their bodies while selling them products because you made them hate their bodies. And in the body positivity movement, it's really rampant. If you look at Dove, Dove is one of the first companies to really monetize at a grand scale the body positivity movement. In the last decade, they've done a bunch of very high profile feel good, “love your body no matter what,” you can't see me, but I'm making really sarcastic hand gestures right now. Louise: Yeah, I'm loving it. Lindley: I mean, you can see me, but our listeners will be able to. But all these love your body just the way you are things, but at the same time, they're selling skin lightning cream to people of color. Louise: How dare they? Lindley: And they're selling wrinkle cream or whatever. Louise: Anti-aging, right? Lindley: Yeah, so it's very two-faced. Louise: Yeah, they were just changing the marketing where baiting and switching people on a global scale. And I agree. I think we're going to see more and more and more of it, but it's also like kind of core at the same time, because the fact that these big nasty wolves are coming to sniff at your door means that you are the one with the power, right. Body positivity movements are the ones who are driving the direction of – like the increasing level of diversity that's happening around the planet. I think they're just getting a bit desperate. Lindley: I mean, these are dinosaurs – that meteorite is coming. And I want to say too, for our listeners, I want to acknowledge, because you don't hear this stated enough, how traumatic, like full-on psychologically traumatic it is for both us as a culture and for people as individuals to be told for hundreds of years that their bodies, particularly fat bodies, and particularly women's bodies, but all bodies are bad in their natural states. And then have a generation of companies turn around and tell us that it's our fault for not loving those bodies. That's trauma. That is trauma – culturally and individually. So I want to be very clear that if you don't love your body, which most people don't, I have days I do and days I don't, but if you don't love your body, that is not on you, that is on hundreds of years of culture driving up and product power, so it's not you. Louise: It's the system. Lindley: Yeah. And you're not individually possible for fixing that, unless you want to. Louise: I'm so glad you're here. You are on fire and I love it. Lindley: I get so angry at the scam that's been perpetuated. Louise: Yes, that's exactly what it is. It's a giant gaslighting scam that turns us against ourselves and each other. And when we kind of hit body size as a measure of worth, it's really damaging and divisive. I really want to ask how you got to this point. Lindley: I got mad. Louise: Yeah, how did you get mad? Like, how did you come to have this amazing idea to start the body liberation stock photography stuff, and come to it with so much conviction to protect people who have been marginalized? Lindley: Well, it's been a process of about – it took about 10 years to go from being very, very sort of normal person invested in diet culture, sort of very mainstream, to being very passionately anti-diet and doing this activism work. In 2007, thereabouts, I discovered I had been on the website live journal for a very long time. At that point, it was like a pre-Facebook. Louise: The dark days of early internet. Lindley: Yeah. And I had stumbled across this group called Fatshionista. So like fashionista, but with fat folk. And it was such a revelation because here were these mostly women who were in large bodies in very large bodies who were being styling and confident and walking around in horizontal stripes. Louise: Oh my God. Lindley: And tight fitting outfits and colorful outfits and just living their lives confidently. And I just lurk for a really long time. But from there I started discovering… so the pre-cursor, these of foundation of the body positive movement is the fat acceptance movement, which started in the 1960s and has been the backbone of all of this. So this was a little bit before body positivity became a thing. And I found these fat acceptance blogs, where they were talking about the science of weight loss and why scientifically it doesn't work. And I had been in this state that I think many people sort of existed where they're like, well, it's fine to say, love your body, but my body is big. My body is not okay. Like, that might be cool for other people, like maybe other people deserve to be confident. But something about… Louise: Gosh, that is like, when you said that, that is like where so many of us are stuck. Like it's okay for everyone else and I love the idea of diversity and I love the idea that large and small and everyone in between can exist, but my body. I can't get there. Lindley: Yeah. And so, when I learned the science and the fact that somewhere around 98% of diets fail and that people gain the weight back, I started to feel like I'd been scammed. I'd been raised my whole life to believe that if I could just be good enough and strong enough and have enough willpower and do the right things for long enough, then I too would be thin and healthy and fabulous and have the life I'd always dreamed of and all those other things you see in diet ads, and it turned out none of that was true. Louise: It's bullshit. Amazing. Lindley: I started to get annoyed and then gradually I got mad, and then I got really mad. Louise: Excellent. Lindley: And then I started doing my own activism work because it was so tragic to see people that I love trapped in that system and be lied to. And so, I started speaking out – just a little bit, just a little bit. Like, I'd post something on my Facebook about, “Hey, we know that diets don't work because of science.” Louise: Yeah. I mean, like in tiny little writing. Lindley: Yeah. And that's really scary when you start doing it because it's so counter to what we think we know. So in about 2015, I was in a really crappy job, after a series of really crappy jobs, corporate full-time jobs. And I said, you know what, I got to a breaking point. And I said, “I'm done. I want to take my photography and turn it into a full-time business.” Louise: So you'd learned photography for a while. Lindley: Yeah. Well, I've done nature photography for many, many years, but I had never photographed people. Louise: Interesting. Lindley: So I took a year and I took a bunch of classes online and then I learned to photograph people. So in 2015, I quit that job. And I want to acknowledge my privilege here. I am a white cisgender straight woman who lives in the United States, and my husband is my financial safety net, so I was able to take that. I also have a part-time job as well, but I was able to take that leap because of my privilege. And so, I've always… Louise: Because you have some security, yeah. Lindley: There's not a lot of path that is open to everyone, and so I always want to acknowledge that. Louise: Yeah, it is really important, but I also think it's kind of fabulous that there are people who are able to do that because what you've done is create something for so many people. Lindley: And if you had asked me a decade ago, if you had said maybe in 10 years, how you feel about being a full time, small business person, photographer and activist, and I would've laughed in your face. Because at this point I have enough experience speaking out that I often sound very confident and powerful. Louise: You do, you sound really fired up and it's fantastic. Lindley: Which is wonderful, but that is not where I came from. Louise: So you took it on. Lindley: Yeah, I came from a very meek sort of very nice lady, southern sweet background, where you never disagreed with anybody to their face. Not to their face… Louise: Disagree behind their back with a cup of tea. Lindley: Yeah. That's how we do it in the south, the Southern US, we smile at your face and then snip at you behind your back. But like, I wasn't brought up in a way where I was allowed to access anger or to even believe that I felt it. Louise: It's part of the, like, part of the gaslighting of diet culture is that it uses other gaslighting of being raised female, and like, just be nice and shut up and don't rock the boat. And if you're mad, it's probably a period, right – it's not worthy. Lindley: Yeah. And it's very threatening to a lot of people, too, particularly when someone in a fat body is angry, that's very threatening because we are expected to shut up and take it. And so, I do get a lot of trolling. I've had some threats, but thankfully I'm not yet high profile enough to really be getting a lot of that. But it there's been some unpleasantness. Louise: It's really terrible. What you were saying about the science stuff and speaking up about the science, its that's sort of, my pathway was through the science as well, initially as well as like the massive sense of social justice and eating disorder work as well. But I'm so aware, and when I talk about the science, so if we were in the same room talking about the science, it's possible that my voice would be listened to more, even though we're talking about exactly the same thing, because our body sizes are different, which is ridiculous because actually you've got more lived experience alongside the science, so it's kind of like what the… Lindley: Yeah, yeah. We consider it culturally, we consider a thin body or a thinner body to be a credential, just like a degree. I was actually talking about this on Instagram literally last night that we consider thin body is to be a credential. So even though I live in this body and I have experience with this body, in general, I am considered as much of an authority on this body as someone who is in a more socially acceptable body. Louise: Which is so weird, it's like being like, oh, I'm the expert on same sex relationships, but I'm completely head show. Why would that credential be? Lindley: Yeah. Again, when marginalized people are allowed to speak and allowed to be angry and allowed to be believed, it's very threatening to the status quo. So it's easier to, I mean, again, both at a cultural level and an individual level, it's easier to assume that I am lying or that I'm exaggerating or that I am unacceptably angry or unacceptably sad or whatever, so that it blunts the impact of what I'm saying. Louise: Yeah, it's easy to dismiss something you don't agree with. Lindley: Right. I had someone who is in an average size body for here to the US. A maybe US 14, 16, which I think in Aussie size is about a 12. Louise: I have no idea because sizes confuse me. Lindley: I think the Aussie sizes run one size lower, I think. But anyway, at any rate, someone who is of average size here in the US. And often I find, again, I am speaking for my US experience. I'm not speaking for the whole planet, but I often find that folks who are of the average size because of the nature of our culture, think that they are much larger or much farther along that spectrum. So I often find that there's people who are of average size assume that the way that they are treated is the same way that people much larger than they are, are treated – which is not accurate. Louise: But it's about that unconscious, like they don't know the privilege they have. Lindley: Yeah, because it's a spectrum. I live in a very large body, but I am nowhere in near the extreme end of the fatness spectrum. There are many, many people who are larger than I am. And then I have privilege over those people because I can still get clothes that are… I can't get them in person. I mostly have to buy online, but I can still get clothing that's commercially made. Even if it's not the clothing I would prefer, and even if it doesn't fit very well, I can still find clothing somehow. But this was a person who I think wasn't quite ready to understand that that is a spectrum. Louise: And that's real. Lindley: And I had written this, I was recently diagnosed with a new to me health condition that has been quite challenging and that I am pursuing treatment for. And the treatment for that condition, it is a stigmatized condition. I'm not going to go into details, but it is a stigmatized condition, and it is a condition that is correlated with larger bodies. We don't have any scientific evidence that it is caused by being in a larger body, but it is correlated. And so, as someone who now has condition, there's sort of a double stigma and there it's been very challenging to get treatment. Louise: So you're stuck in the whole stigmatizing, like, medical condition stuff where they're like, “Oh, you've got this condition. If your body was different, you wouldn't have this condition,” Which is really not an interesting conversation, but it seems to be one that keeps on happening. Lindley: Right. Right. And so, this is something that I have been dealing with for a while now. Just pursuing treatment and it's taken much longer than it should have. And I was talking on my personal Facebook about the challenges of getting this health condition addressed and the ways in which some of those challenges have been caused by people reacting to my body size by fatphobia, plain and simple. And this person who has been listening to me speak for years and who is very earnest and was clearly trying very well intentioned. Because this was not the same experience that this other woman had had in her life, she approached me and wrote me a long message about how I was basically bringing all this on myself. Louise: Oh, bringing all of what on yourself? Lindley: That maybe I was just imagining that people were treating me poorly. Louise: Oh ouch. Oh dear. Lindley: Because I was putting out negative energy into the world, and so my poor treatment was my own fault. And there was a time in my life that I would've been devastated and I would've believed her. I would've gone, “Oh no, maybe because I'm in a fat body, maybe I am putting some kind of energy out into the world that maybe I just, oh no, it's all my fault.” Louise: Oh wow. Lindley: And my friend Brandy, calls this confidence magic. Louise: Good time. Lindley: Yeah. She said she calls it confidence magic because she is also in a very large body. And quite often, when we talk about the way we're treated it, the retort is, well, if you were just acted more confident, if you were just friendlier, if you just did X, Y, Z. But mostly, if you just acted more confidently, then people wouldn't treat you that way. And it's entirely possible that for someone who is in a smaller than ours body, that works. Maybe it does work if you're in a smaller body. But I want to be very that there is nothing I can do or not do that will make my body not an oppressed body. It doesn't matter what kind of energy I put out into the world, I don't deserve to be treated poorly, especially for the size of my body. Louise: It's putting emphasis back onto you, it puts it back onto you and it takes the focus away from the person who's being the dick head. Lindley: Right. My oppression is never my fault, period. And so now I asked her to sit down and really look at that discomfort because the problem was that she had reached a point where she couldn't imagine that people actually get treated the way that I was describing. And so, it was so uncomfortable to realize that her experience was universal, that she sort of flipped over into this default state of, oh no, you must have done it to yourself, because it it's so hard to think. It is hard to think about people you like being mistreated. And it's easier to think that it must somehow be under their control it, that it [unclear28:21] behavior. Louise: Exactly. I was going to say that it's a locus of control problem. If we can locate the problem within us, then we feel like it's controllable and that we can do something about it. But to actually kind of recognize that this is structural, this is big. And we can be as kind and nice and put as much positive energy crystals out to the universe as possible and it won't change fatphobia. Lindley: Yeah. And unfortunately, this particular person was not receptive to being asked to reevaluate what she was saying, and so she wandered off and I haven't seen her since. But it really illustrates that when we start learning about systems of oppression, it can be really uncomfortable. As an America, I have had to do a lot of work around racism and a lot of learning, and as a very white person, that is very uncomfortable. But also, I feel like it's part of my job on this planet. Louise: We're not always supposed to be comfortable. Lindley: Yeah. And it's okay to be uncomfortable, especially when you're learning; you have to learn to sit with it. Louise: Yeah. Gosh, like there's so much that you have to deal with, when all you're really wanting to do is get on Facebook and talk about it. Lindley: I just want to whine on Facebook, and now too, my personal Facebook, because I have so many professional connections there, it is up being a hybrid. It is a hybrid space. When I'm speaking there, half of the folks who are in my sphere are there because of my work, so it's never really personal. And that is a boundary that I chose. I could choose to maintain my Facebook to be much, much smaller and more closed, and so I do have to be aware that I'm sort of speaking to a hybrid audience there, but sometimes you just want to get on Facebook and gripe too. Louise: You want to have a good old Facebook page and just get supported. That's kind of what we want to. Lindley: Right. But yeah, it's so important that all recognize that when we are treated badly for something about ourselves or related to something about ourselves, that's not ever our fault. Louise: Ah, such a good message. And the solution isn't to be kinder to the person who's being the dick head. Lindley: Yeah. I don't owe someone who is oppressing me, who is treating me badly based on the size of my body. I don't owe them in anything. I don't owe them an explanation. I don't owe them kindness. I don't owe them education. The only thing I owe is to myself to minimize the harm done to me. And if I give them anything beyond that, that's a gift. Louise: Yeah. Ah, God, what you're saying is so important, it's going to resonate with so many listeners. I just know it. Lindley: I hope so. It's time to stop blaming ourselves for the way that we're treated. Louise: Yes. Yes. And just last week, one of my clients was talking to me about a health interaction here in Australia with yet another person who is kind of locating the problem, same story. There's a person who's lived for a very long time in a larger body, tried every diet under the sun, the body's not going to change size. Now there's a health condition that needs urgent attention, and this person has been told very nicely that the problem is their body size. And they're actually experiencing delays to the actual treatment, while they are referred to a “obesity clinic” to address the problem of their size. And the emphasis there for this person, this health profession was being kind – it was being said to me in a nice way, which was a revelation for this person, because they've been treated so unkindly, but people can still be kind and still be a dick head. Lindley: Yeah. Oh yeah. Like a doctor, many years ago now; the doctor who lied to me about my health numbers so that she could put me on an off-label medication to try to make me lose weight. And so, she told me I had a condition that I did not have so that she could prescribe me a medication to actually try to make me smaller. She was so nice about it. I assure you; she was kind and sweet and gentle while she lied to me and gave me an unnecessary medication for a decade. Oh, she was very nice though. Louise: I have no words, that is dreadful, but this brings us right back to that Whole30 thing, right. I'm sure their body positive event would be full of kindness and niceness and fairy wings. But what the fuck are they doing? They're selling a diet. Lindley: Yeah. And you can, you can put as much lipstick on that pig as you want, but it's still going to be a pig. And I understand that pigs are smart, sweet, intelligence animals, they're still going to be a pig. Louise: That's right. You know, shit rolled in glitter is still shit. Lindley: Yeah, it's still terrible. Louise: So I've looked at your website and there's the most beautiful photo of a woman in a larger body, in a chair, in a garden, and oh, it is stunning. It is such a beautiful photo. And there are many, many photos like that. And I really want to talk to you about your photography, like how you got… so you got angry at the science, you got all fired up, you started to take pictures of people and now ended it up in this body liberation photography. So tell me about that and how you feel that photographing larger bodies is such an important piece? Lindley: Yeah, there are two sides to the photography. The one side is the stock photos, and for that I'm finding people who most of those folks are not models. They're just regular folks that I find in various ways. And then I'd also do offer client photo sessions; boudoir photography and portrait photography and business branding like business photos, and so there's sort of the two sides of it. And I started out doing the client photography because when I quit my full-time job, that seemed like the most obvious path to take income-wise at the time. And a couple of years later, there's a stock photo company, a very famous one called Getty images, based out of New York – when you see red carpet photos and you see really high quality stock photos that big companies use, those are often from Getty. They are very large and powerful. And they released, I think it was in 2017, they released a special stock photo collection. That was a body positive collection. And it got a ton of press. And I got really excited because we need – the more of that in the world, the better. But I went to go look at the photos and it turned out that they were mostly people who are again, in the US average size, which again is much larger than model size body. It was still different, but it wasn't particularly representative. And also, the photos were very expensive and they were also for editorial use only. And in stock photo lingo, that means that you can't use them for marketing. Louise: Okay. Lindley: What on earth was the whole point of that? Louise: What are they folding? Lindley: What a wasted opportunity. And so once again, I got mad and I said, I can do that, so I did. Louise: And you went like the full spectrum of body sizes, and identities, and cultures and genders, it's like everything, basically humans. Lindley: Yeah. When I am looking for models for the stock photos, and again, most of these people aren't trained models, but when you pose, you become one. So now these folks can all say that they're, that they're models too, which is cool. But I am always looking for the largest possible bodies to represent because I'm the only one on the planet doing this work right now, photographing very fat people – the only one. And I look forward to the day when that's not true. I look forward to the day when I have tons of competition. Louise: When it's not a niche or a specialty. Lindley: Yeah. And it turns out that many of the people who come to work with me on that basis are also people of color, are also LGBT+, or they're folks, or they have a mental illness, or they have a disability. They bring these other identities with them, and so I have the honor of being able to represent those things as well. Lots of folks in eating disorder recovery. Louise: Yes. And so, how did someone, like, if someone wants to do a stock photo with you, do they approach you or do you like follow people in shopping centers and ask them? What do you do? Lindley: It's been a combination. I have an email list that I maintain. And if you would like to be on that list, I am in Seattle, Washington in the US. But if you're ever visiting or you want to be on my list just in case, you are welcome to contact. We'll put that in the show notes, but I do have an email list that I send out model calls to, at least in non COVID 19 times. And then, I did once follow a coworker into a work bathroom; I was doing a corporate contract at a big company, and I had kept running into this woman, she was just lovely and seemed, I don't like you can tell when you're washing your hands at a bathroom sink beside someone, but she seemed very nice. And she was right in the demographic I represent. And so finally I followed her into the bathroom one day and I said, “I'm so sorry if this is creepy, and you can tell me to leave at any point and I will leave and never talk to you again. But I do photography and I'd love to have you as a model.” And she came and modeled for me, and it was wonderful. Louise: That is so gorgeous. Lindley: But yeah, it's a combination. When I started out, I was finding people on Craigslist, which is an American website, the classified ads, so it is just been a combination. Louise: Fantastic. Have you heard of Obesity Canada? Lindley: I'm aware that they exist. I've tried not to get tangled. Louise: That's pretty gross. It's pretty eww. Well, actually, I'm not sure who has released it, but they're kind of like this O organization up there who have this stock photos collection. Lindley: Oh yeah. It's another one of those weird co-opting things. Louise: Yeah. Yeah. And they work very closely with our friends at Novo Nordisk who are releasing all the weight loss drugs, and trying to take over the whole world. Lindley: Of course. Louise: Yes. But those I guess they're competition for you in a way. Lindley: Well, yeah, in a way. There's also a free collection on a website called Unsplash of our own bodies. And those photos are lovely and they are free to use, unlike my photos, which are not free because I need to eat. Louise: Imagine that! Lindley: Yeah. My models have the choice of, they can either choose a living wage money or for every hour that they are modeling or they can choose to be paid in photos. Many of them are very poor and they need the money, so I'm happy to pay them. But everybody involved in mine gets paid a living wage, which is why the photos aren't free because I get paid a living wage too. But yeah, there are some collections out there that do compete, which is fine. Again, we need all the representation we can get. Louise: We too, but I guess it's ethics, isn't it? And because I think that some of the people who are being photographed for those stock photos associated with the O organizations use members of their so-called patient groups, who are people who – that's another kind of section of my podcasts, people who are being encouraged by the weight loss industry to promote body positivity in the name of getting better public healthcare for weight loss surgeries and the like. So, it's really nice to hear about the ethics of you treat the people that you work with. Lindley: Yeah. When I'm photographing people, because again, almost everyone who comes to me… now, sometimes I'll get people who are just like, I'm ready. Let's do it. I love my body. I'm ready to show it off. Let's do the thing. Louise: How often does that happen? Lindley: It's rare, but it's cool. That's fun too. But most of the people who come to me, they're nervous. These are bodies – we live in these bodies that are not considered okay. And now here's this girl with a camera pointed it at you going, “No, you're great.” That's very disconcerting. And so, we do a lot of coaching. We do a lot of… I tell people like they get to control when they're done, whether they need a bathroom break or they're hungry or they just need to not have a camera pointed at them. It's a very warm and friendly environment because that's the only way to be ethical about this. And if nothing else, if you're unhappy, it's going to show in the photos. Louise: Yeah, of course. Lindley: So I have a vested interest in keeping you relaxed too. But these organizations releasing these photos is another example of this smiling oppression because it doesn't matter. Louise: What a beautiful way of putting it. Lindley: It doesn't matter how nice you are about it; if you're trying to erase me, and if you're trying to get me to pay you for surgeries or drugs or meal plans or meals or whatever, or weigh-ins, whatever that are not evidence-based. And you can tell I'm all fired up about this, come back to our theme again, because it doesn't matter how nice you are about it. Louise: You're still a dick head. Lindley: I know all about nice, but nice is not kind and kind is not anti-oppressive. Louise: Yeah, we've got to stop this bullshit. Yeah, I love that term “smiling oppression”. Yeah, if people are being nice to you and trying to represent you, and simultaneously trying to eradicate you; that's bullshit. Lindley: Yeah. I mean, again, I talk about being Southern because it's very relevant here because I have an ancestor who owned a slave, who owned another human being. That was a couple hundred years ago, so I had no idea whether that person was nice to their slave. I wouldn't have any way of knowing. Louise: It doesn't matter. Lindley: Yeah, it doesn't matter. In the south, one of the things that I was taught in history classes in school was that slavery wasn't it really all that bad because people were nice to their slaves and let them live in the house, and I'm not going to repeat the rest of it. It is very… Louise: Oh my God, that's just, yeah. Lindley: Yeah. And I had to learn better as an adult. But just because, and I'm not comparing slavery and fatphobia, they are not the same thing. They are not the same oppression. It doesn't matter how nice I am to you' if I am hurting you, if I'm stepping on your foot while smiling and asking you about the weather, the proper response is, “Hey, get off my foot.” Louise: Yeah. Right. Oh God, so many people need to hear this, and it's so good to hear how fired up you are. Lindley: We're being lied to, and we're continuing to be lied to by people who want to present, particularly weight loss surgery is now the big new thing, but it's still not evidence-based. We know that the side effects are really horrific, that a lot of people die. And then most people who even have that surgery gain the weight back. I know somebody who's had it twice and the doctor is pushing her to have it a third time because it didn't work. I mean, she lost the weight and then she regained it right back because that's what human bodies do – they protect. Louise: Our bodies are amazing. They're smarter than the weight loss surgeons. Lindley: Yeah. My body says, “I see a famine coming. We're hungry, I need to protect you.” That's what our bodies are doing. Louise: And I love that the photography that you do highlights the beauty inherent in diversity. And like that picture of the woman in the backyard, she is by no means small and she is just absolutely, like, there is just such beauty in that photo. A lot of the people that I work with really can't see that beauty in their own body and really don't even look at their own body, and that's where I guess photography can open up. Like, what are you trying to do for people when you take their photo, when you're aware of that much, like avoidance or disgusted or all of that stuff that people get stuck on when it comes to their own body? Lindley: Well, again, there's, there's kind of two facets. There is often when client come to me, generally the folks who are modeling for stock photos, because they are aware that those photos will be used publicly and sold, so there's an extra layer there of not only being willing to see yourself, but to know that many, many, many other people are going to see these. So generally, the folks who model for stock photos are maybe a little more ready for that. But a lot of the clients who come to me, maybe they haven't had a photo of themselves since their wedding day, or maybe they haven't had one since high school, or maybe they're always in the back of photos, or they're the ones behind the camera because they can't stand to be in front of it. And for those people, when I started doing this, I didn't know the term for it, but the term is exposure therapy. This is not a process that I'm qualified to coach at this point, generally, this is ad hoc, people do it for themselves. But people will often take their finished photos, and we've always look at them together. We always go through them together, both from that's… I mean, it's part of my sales process. It's business, we look at them together because people are buying products with them. But also for support, I think your photos are amazing, and I know that you will too, but I'm still going to be there to metaphorically hold your hand while we look at them. But then people take them home, and they'll look at them for just a minute. And then the next day they'll look at them for two minutes, and they will expose exposure therapy themselves. That's the coolest thing because they're teaching themselves to look at their own bodies. And then the other facet of that is that you saw that photo of the woman in the chair, in my backyard. I'm very lucky to have overgrown backyard to put people in. Louise: You have a nice backyard. Lindley: And we had the behind the scenes of that photo is that I had sheets hung up all over around her because the back of my backyard is open to the next area behind, so I had sheets hung up all over for privacy because she is very nude. So, you saw that photo on the website and it made a difference for you. You remembered it. And so the other facet is that you can… I don't know what the verb is. You can expose your therapy yourself by finding photos of people who are either look like you, like have your similar body type or are bigger or have visible disabilities, or basically by exposing yourself to all kinds of bodies, not just the ones that you kind of get forced fed by the media. You can do this process for yourself without necessarily having to look at photos of yourself. Although eventually you will also want to look at your own body, but you can do so much just by looking at people of actual bodies; look at them. Louise: Not in a creepy way – maybe in a creepy way. Lindley: I mean, maybe don't go staring at people in the grocery store. Louise: Don't follow people into the bathrooms at pools. Lindley: Yeah, please don't follow people around staring at them, but the internet is a wonderful place to stare at other bodies. Louise: Yeah. And actually, you raise a really good point because I think it's, well, 20 years into my foray into like the non-diet stuff. And I think me, even in the mid two thousands, looking at that same photo, I wouldn't have had the same reaction of just like being struck by the beauty because I hadn't done all of that. Like, I do surround myself with lots and lots of pictures of, like we've got naked women all over this house and my kids make a point of warning their friends, and I'm pretty sure my dad does think I'm a lesbian, which is okay, because I'm exposing him to diversity, but it's the exposure, exposure to diversity. If we see ourselves everywhere, represented everywhere and see other people represented everywhere, nothing strikes us as wrong, and then the beauty can grow. Lindley: Yeah. You know, what we are exposed to inn our regular lives, without taking efforts otherwise is a very narrow slice of humanity. And the more we see people… the more we see all different kinds of bodies, the more normal they become. The more we can see the beauty in those bodies as opposed to those bodies and out of bounds, or wrong, or transgressive, and the more you can expose yourself, the faster it will work. Louise: Yeah. And do you think that the last place that that kind of appreciation happens is your own body? Lindley: I think it depends for people. I think for some people, yes. I think for some people, body is the least, like theirs is the last place that happens. And I don't know, you know, I'm not in other people's heads, so I don't know whether that correlates with how outside the mainstream your own body is or not. Louise: Yeah, I do think there's something in that, but to keep going. So you are basically encouraging us all to take modes of ourselves. Lindley: Oh, yeah. Take some new selfies, seriously. Start in the bath. Like if you have access to like a bubble bath, because then you can like take pictures of your toes, like pointing delicately up from the bubbles and it's the least offensive nude in the world and it's really safe. And then you turn that camera around or use your use the other camera on your phone. Don't electrocute yourself please. Louise: Don't live stream it. Lindley: You take a photo of like if you have cleavage and you want to see that cleavage, like you do the bubbles and the cleavage. Again, I'm making hand gestures that you can't see so you don't imagine. And you do like the coy bubbles and the cleavage and you like camp it up. And then from there, you get out the bath and you dry off or not, I don't know your life. And you start putting that camera on a timer and you do whatever makes you happy if that's nudes or a costume or a Godzilla suit, I don't care – as long as you're seeing yourself. Louise: I love it. It sounds really playful. Lindley: Yeah. It doesn't have to be… like, there is a lot. And if you are an eating disorder recovery there a chance that you have been exposed to some of these exercises already on body image. There is a ton of resources out there on things like mirror work, where you're looking into mirror and seeing yourself and lots of… like, I have a whole book of journaling prompts about body image. There's a ton of resources out there, but just taking a selfie and deleting it, you can delete it. You don't have to keep it. Louise: You don't have to put it on Facebook. Lindley: You don't have to share it. I know that some people will start like a secret Instagram that is just them sharing selfies just to have them out into the world, but you don't have to, you don't have to do any of that. Louise: You don't have to perform this. Yeah, this is fast, this is good stuff. Lindley: Just like anything you can do. But again, you're not obligated to, this is not a moral imperative. You don't have to do selfies. You don't have to do nudes. You don't have to love your body. It's great if you can respect your own body, but there's no particular moral good in it other than that, you deserve it. None of these – I'm not giving you marching orders. I'm giving you some options, but like we get to do you. Louise: Lindley, thank you so much. This conversation has been immense and everything and awesome. Thank you for everything that you're putting out there in the world and for being so fired up. Lindley: Yeah, thank you. Such a joy to get to come in and talk about what I'm really head up about. Louise: Yeah, it's truly terrific. And I hope that your health condition gets properly addressed and that you feel better soon. Lindley: Thank you. Louise: All right. Thank you. Outro: What a dead set legend. Thank you so much, Lindley, I just adored that conversation and thank you everybody for listening. So if you are looking to learn more about Lindley and all of her amazing work, you can find her at bodyliberationphotos.com or on Insta @ bodyliberationwithlindley. And don't forget that her name has a silent D in it. So it sounds like Lindley, but it's L I N D L E Y. Okay everyone, that's all for this week's episode, I will see you soon, I promise. Take really good care of yourself in the meantime, trust your body, think critically, push back against diet culture, untrap from the crap. Resources Mentioned Find out more about Lindley here Follow Lindley on Insta @bodyliberationwithlindley

Fat Kids Are Not Child Abuse With The Fat Doctor UK

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 14, 2021 73:37

Imagine being 13 years old, standing in front of a judge, accused of the "crime" of being fat. Imagine the incredible pain you would feel as the judge announces that in the interests of your 'health', you will be removed from your family. But there's no need to imagine. During the height of the UK COVID-19 pandemic, two children were removed from their loving home and put into foster care. The ONLY reason was that both kids were fat. This harrowing story raised the ire of the fabulous Fat Doctor UK, who advocated and pleaded and offered to help educate the social workers, judge, and anyone who would listen, but her valiant attempts have so far been ignored. Two kids have lost their families, thanks to fatphobia. Join me and the fabulous Fat Doctor UK as we get UTTERLY fired up about this travesty of justice. This is a tough listen so please make sure you have adequate spoons. Show Transcript 0:00:12.7 Louise: Welcome to All Fired Up. I'm Louise, your host. And this is the podcast where we talk all things anti-diet. Has diet culture got you in a fit of rage? Is the injustice of the beauty ideal? Getting your knickers in a twist? Does fitspo, make you wanna spit spo? Are you ready to hurl if you hear one more weight loss tip? Are you ready to be mad, loud and proud? Well, you've come to the right place. Let's get all fired up. 0:00:40.3 Louise: Hello, diet culture drop-outs. I'm so pleased to be with you again and very excited about today's episode. Okay, so first of all, I wanna say a massive thank you to all of the listeners who are so faithful and loving. And I love all your messages and emails, so keep them coming. And if you love the show, don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss the episodes as they pop out on a roughly monthly basis. And if you love us, give us five stars because the more five star reviews we get, particularly on Apple Podcasts, the louder the message is, the more listeners we get and the quicker we can topple diet culture. And that's the objective here. 0:01:24.7 Louise: If you're looking for some free stuff to help you with your anti-diet journey, gosh I hate that word. Let's call it an adventure. Anti-Diet Adventure, 'cause that's what it is. It's rocking and rolling. It's up and down. It's not predictable. But if you're looking for a resource where you might be going to medical visit, you might be trying to explain just what you're doing to friends and family, look no further than the free e-book; Everything You've Been Told About Weightloss Is Bullshit, written by me and the Anti-Diet Advanced doctor dietician, Dr Fiona Willer. In it we're busting the top 10 myths that float around diet culture like poo in a swimming pool, about the relationship between health and weight, and we're busting myths left, right and centre. 0:02:06.8 Louise: It's a really awesome resource. It's crammed full of science and facts and it will really help steel you and give you the armour that you need to push back against diet culture. So if you wanna grab a copy, it's absolutely free. Like I said, you can go to Instagram which is untrapped_ au and click on the link in the bio and grab a copy there. Or you can go to the website untrapped.com.au and a little pop-up will come and you will grab it there. More free stuff, if you are struggling with relationship with your body during the last couple of years in particular, Befriending Your Body is my free e-course. All about self-compassion, this amazing skill of being kind and befriending your body. And it's like a super power, self-compassion, because we're all taught from the moment we're born, practically, to disconnect and dislike and judge and body police ourselves. Not exactly a recipe for happiness and satisfaction. 0:03:05.9 Louise: So, this little e-course will help build the skill of self-compassion, which is absolutely awesome because if we can learn to connect with our imperfect bodies, we can learn to inhabit them, to look after them and to push back against the forces that are still trying to get us separate from them. You can find the Befriending Your Body e-course from Instagram. So, untrapped_au. Click on the link, Befriending Your Body, it's all free, it's beautiful. It's just so lovely to practice self-compassion meditations. Self-compassion is built for difficult times. And my friends, we're in a difficult time. So, get hold of that if you haven't already. 0:03:47.6 Louise: Big shout out and hello to all of the Untrapped community, the Master Class and online community, who we meet every week. We push back against diet culture together. We share our stories, we've been supporting each other through the various challenges of lockdown and it's just a wonderful community of awesome human beings. So, if you're struggling and you want to join a community, as well as learning all of the skills of how to do things like intuitive eating, returning to a relationship with moving your body that doesn't feel like hard work. Understanding weight stigma and weight prejudice, relationship with body, all of that kind of stuff is covered in this comprehensive course, Untrapped, which I co-created in 2017 with 11 other amazing anti-diet health professionals. 0:04:39.9 Louise: So if you wanna grab a hold of this program and join our online community, please do and now's the time. We're meeting weekly. So every Saturday, I meet with the whole community and we have an awesome chinwag about everything that's going on. You also get all of the material. And there's other things that happened throughout the year like events and retreats. Well, if they're not scuppered by COVID. [chuckle] In usual times, we are able to do that. Well, if that's not being scuppered by COVID, of course. But in ordinary times, we do extra stuff. So find out more about Untrapped on the website, untrapped.com.au. You can also find a link from Insta. So, I think that's a run through all of the preamble. 0:05:23.5 Louise: Now, we arrive at the exciting time. I am so excited to bring you today's episode. You would have heard of the Fat Doctor UK by now, because she burst onto the internet a few months ago. And it seems like she's everywhere and she is loud and she is angry and she's a GP. So, here we have a very fierce, fat-positive voice, straight out of the UK medical profession, which is sorely needed. And I've just got so much admiration for Natasha and everything that she's doing. And I was actually listening to the Mindful Dietician podcast when I first heard Natasha being interviewed by the wonderful, Fi Sutherland. And during that conversation, she mentioned an awful situation in the UK where two kids were removed from their family for being fat. 0:06:13.9 Louise: And I'd actually seen that story and was so horrified that I kind of shelved it a way. But hearing Natasha talk about it and what she decided to do about it herself, it just inspired me. I just knew I had to talk to her. So this episode is everything. It's a long one, and it's a bloody rollercoaster. We go a lot of places during this epic, fantastic conversation. So you are going to laugh, you are going to cry. You're gonna cry more than once, because I know I did. You're gonna be absolutely furious, because just what we're talking about is just so horrific. We are in the 21st century and kids are being removed from loving homes simply because of BMI and a failure to do the impossible, which is lose weight and keep it off via the epic fail of dieting. 0:07:06.8 Louise: So look, this is really a challenging episode to listen to. It's a horrible story but the conversation with The Fat Doctor, Natasha herself is nothing short of inspiring. This woman is on a crusade. She has got heaps of other people involved in changing the landscape in a meaningful way. She is a real champion in the UK and across the planet, and I know you're gonna enjoy this conversation, but have some tissues close by and keep your slow breathing going to help contain the rage 'cause it's real. So without further ado, I give you me and The Fat Doctor herself, Natasha Larmie. So Tash, thank you so much for coming on the show. 0:07:49.0 Natasha Larmie: Thank you so much for having me, I am so excited. Due to the time difference, it's past midnight now and I've never been this awake past midnight before, so I'm really looking forward to this talk. 0:07:58.8 Louise: Oh my god, I am so impressed with your fired up-ness. [laughter] [laughter] 0:08:04.6 Louise: Tell me what is firing you up. 0:08:07.3 NL: Just in general or specifically about this case? 'Cause obviously a lot of things are firing me up, but I mean, obviously... 0:08:11.7 Louise: Yes. 0:08:12.5 NL: We wanna talk about this particular case that's firing me up. 0:08:16.3 Louise: Yes, what is this case? 0:08:17.9 NL: Yeah, what's going on with this case. So I think it was back in September, October last year that it happened, but I became aware of it a few months later, where two young people, one was actually over the age of 16 and his sibling, his younger sibling is under the age of 16, had been removed from a very loving home, for all intents and purposes, a very loving, happy home and placed into foster care by a judge simply because they were fat, and there is really no other reason at all. There was no other signs of child abuse, neglect, physical abuse, emotional abuse, nothing. It's just because they were fat and they failed to lose weight, a judge removed them from a loving home and placed them in foster care, and the older sibling, I think he's 16, 17, didn't actually have to go in because he was too old and the younger girl, she's 13, and she was removed from her home. 0:09:11.5 NL: And when I read about it I think I was so disgusted, it sort of broke... One newspaper reports on it in the UK, and it was several weeks later I guess, because the court transcript had come out, and I read it, I read the article, and I just thought, "Well, this is just the press over-exaggerating." And then someone said... One friend of mine sent me a text message saying, "No, no, no, just read the court's transcript. Transcript, read it," and sent me a link to the court transcript. I read the whole thing and within an hour I think I read the whole thing, and I was in tears. I was so full of rage that I just felt like something had to be done and started a petition. Have tried really hard to get answers, to push people to look into this case but unfortunately, haven't got very far because we're dealing with people who have very much kind of shut us down and have said, "It's not your concern. This is a judge who made this decision and there's nothing you can do about it." 0:10:05.4 Louise: Really? 0:10:05.7 NL: So I'm pretty fired up. Yeah. 0:10:07.2 Louise: Oh, god. Oh, I mean, when you say it out loud, like my whole body is responding. When I read the court transcripts last night, I put it off because I knew that I just probably would have a massive reaction and I was crying too, because this transcript is literally fucking heartbreaking. 0:10:26.5 NL: Tears. 0:10:27.2 Louise: That they're all admitting that this is... No one wants to be split up, they love each other but there's this stupid idea, as if everybody is completely unaware of science and weight science and how fucked dieting is. 0:10:41.5 NL: Yeah. 0:10:42.2 Louise: And how it doesn't fucking work. 0:10:44.4 NL: No. 0:10:44.7 Louise: And it's in a pandemic. 0:10:46.0 NL: Yeah, yeah. 0:10:46.7 Louise: If I fail to lose weight in a lockdown, when the world was going mad... 0:10:51.6 NL: And I mean, actually, the story begins I think 10 years previously, the story begins when they were three and six. These were two children, a three-year-old and a six-year-old who were picked up most likely because... I don't know if it's the same in Australia, but in the UK we have a screening program, so in year one, which is between the age of five and six, you are weighed and measured by a school nurse, and they... 0:11:13.4 Louise: Really? 0:11:13.9 NL: Yeah. And do you not have that? No. 0:11:15.6 Louise: No. 0:11:15.7 NL: We have. This is the National Child Measurement Programme, there's a acronym, but I didn't bother to learn. 0:11:21.2 Louise: Oh my god. 0:11:21.6 NL: But it happens in year one, which is when you're between five and six, and again in year six, which is when you're between 10 and 11. 0:11:29.0 Louise: Oh Christ. 0:11:29.2 NL: Two of the worst times to weigh people... 0:11:30.0 Louise: Correct, yeah. 0:11:32.0 NL: If you're think about it, because of course, especially around the 10, 11 stage some people are heading towards puberty, pre-puberty, some people are not, and so those that are heading towards pre-puberty will often have gained quite a bit of weight because you know that always happens before you go through puberty, you kind of go out before you go up, and that's completely normal, but they get penalised. But anyway, so I imagine... I don't know, because that's not actually in the transcripts but I'm guessing that at six, the older sibling, the boy was shown to be grossly overweight or whatever they call it, morbidly obese. They probably just measured his BMI, even though he was six, they probably measured it, which is just ridiculous 'cause that's not what BMI is for, and rather than looking at growth charts, which is what we should be doing at that age, they will have just sent a letter home and the teachers would have got involved and somewhere along the line, social services would have been called just because of the weight, nothing else, just because of the weight, and social services... 0:12:25.8 Louise: Just because of the percentile of a BMI. 0:12:28.5 NL: That was all it was. It was just weight. There was literally no concerns of ever been raised about these kids apart from their weight. And at the age of three and six, social services got involved and started forcing these children to diet, and they will say that's not what they did, they tried to promote healthy eating, but when you take a three-year-old and a six-year-old and you tell them... You restrict what they eat, you force them to exercise, and you tell them there's something wrong with them, you are putting them on a diet at the age of three to six, and we know, for sure, with evidence, you know, I know, and everyone listening should know by now that when you put young children on a diet like that at such a young age and you make such a big deal out of their weight, they are going to develop disordered eating patterns, and they are going to... 0:13:06.8 Louise: Of course. 0:13:07.8 NL: Gain weight, so... 0:13:09.3 Louise: They're going to instead, that's a trauma process happening. 0:13:12.2 NL: That's true. Yeah, it's... 0:13:13.8 Louise: A trauma to get child protective services involved. 0:13:17.8 NL: Yeah, and live there for 10 years, and then... 0:13:21.4 Louise: Ten years? 0:13:22.5 NL: Got to the stage where they took the proceedings further and further, so that they kept getting more and more involved. And eventually, they decided to make this a child protection issue. Up until that point, child social services were involved, but then, about a year before the court proceedings, something like that, before the pandemic. What happened then was that they gave these children a set amount of time to lose weight, and they enforced it. They bought them Fitbits so that they could monitor how much exercise they were doing, they bought them gym subscriptions, they sent them to Weight Watchers. [chuckle] 0:13:55.9 Louise: Fantastic, 'cause we know that works. 0:13:58.4 NL: We know that works. And of course, as you said, it was during a lockdown. So, Corona hits and there was lockdown, there was schools were closed, and for us, it was really quite a difficult time. And in spite of all of that... 0:14:13.0 Louise: I can't believe it. 0:14:14.9 NL: When the children failed to lose weight, the judge decided that it was in their best interest to remove them from their loving parents. And dad, from what I can tell from the court transcripts. I don't know if you noticed this as well. I think mom was trying very hard to be as compliant as possible. 0:14:26.9 Louise: She was, and even she lost weight, the poor thing. 0:14:30.0 NL: Yes, but I think dad almost seems to be trying to protect them, saying, "This is ridiculous. You can't take my kids away just because of their weight," and I... 0:14:38.1 Louise: Seems like he was in denial, which I fully understand. 0:14:41.1 NL: I would be too, I would be outraged. And it sounds like this young girl... I don't know much about the boy, but from what I can see from the transcripts, this young girl really became quite sad and low and depressed, and obviously, shockingly enough, her self esteem has been completely ruined by this process. 0:14:58.7 Louise: I know, I know. I really saw that in the transcript. This poor little girl was so depressed and getting bullied. And in the transcript, the way that that is attributed to her size and not what abuse they're inflicting on this family. 0:15:13.3 NL: Right. Yeah, really quite shocking. And then of course, the other thing you probably noticed from the transcript is there is no expert testimony at this court proceeding. None whatsoever. There is no psychologist. 0:15:24.0 Louise: Actually, there was. 0:15:25.8 NL: There was... 0:15:26.6 Louise: Dr... What's her name? 0:15:29.4 NL: Yes. You're right, there was a psychologist, and you're absolutely right. She was not an eating disorder specialist or a... She was just a psychologist. 0:15:37.3 Louise: She's a clinical psychologist. Dr. Van Rooyen, and she's based in Kent, and she does court reports for child abuse. Yes, and I can see her weight stigma in there. She's on the one hand acknowledging that the kids don't wanna go, that the kids will suffer mentally from being removed, but you can also see her unexamined weight stigma. And that you're right, where the hell are the weight scientists saying, "Actually, it's biologically impossible to lose weight and maintain it"? Because in the transcripts, they do mention that the kids have lost weight, failed to keep it off. 0:16:16.5 NL: Exactly, exactly. And it's just shocking to me that there would be such a lack of understanding and no desire to actually establish the science or the facts behind this. If I was a judge... I'm not a judge, I'm not an expert, but if I was a judge and I was making a decision to remove a child from a home based purely on the child's inability to lose weight, I would want to find out if it was possible that this child simply couldn't lose weight on their own. I would want to consult experts. I would want to find out if there was a genetic condition. I'm not saying she has a genetic condition. You and I know that she doesn't need to have a genetic condition in order to struggle to lose weight, that actually, the psychology behind this explains it. But even if you've not got to that stage yet, there was no doctors, there was no dietitians, there was no... No one was consulted. It was a psychologist who had no understanding of these specific issues, who, as you said, was clearly biased. There was social workers who said, "We've done everything we can because we've given them a Fitbit and we've sent them to Weight Watchers and sent them to the gym, but they refuse to comply." 0:17:24.9 Louise: I know. It's shocking. 0:17:28.4 NL: Yeah, it strikes me that we live in a world where you just can get away with this. It's just universally accepted that being fat is bad, and it's also your fault, your responsibility. The blame lies solely on the individual, even if that individual is a three-year-old child, it is. And if it's not the child, then of course, it's the parent. The parent has done something wrong. 0:17:52.1 Louise: Specifically the mother, okay. 0:17:53.5 NL: The mother, yeah. 0:17:54.4 Louise: The one with the penis, okay, let's not talk about him, 'cause that was absent. It was the mom. And the only possibility that was examined in this is that it's mom's fault for not being compliant, like you said. That's the only thing. Nothing else like the whole method is a stink-fest of ineffective bullshit. 0:18:13.5 NL: And there's the one point in the transcript when they talk about the fact that she had ice cream or chips or something in the house. 0:18:19.7 Louise: That's Ms. Keeley, their social worker, who went in and judged them. And did you notice that she took different scales in during that last visit? That last visit that was gonna determine whether or not they'd be removed, she took different scales in and weighed them. And they say, "Look, we acknowledge that that could've screwed up the results, but we're just gonna push on with removal." 0:18:43.0 NL: It was their agenda. 0:18:45.0 Louise: It was. It's terrifying, and it's long-term foster care for this poor little girl who doesn't wanna leave her mom. I'm so fired up about this, because the impact of removing yourself from your home because of your body, how on earth is this poor kid gonna be okay? 0:19:05.7 NL: This is my worry. How is mom going to be okay? How is that boy going to be okay? And how is that young, impressionable girl... My oldest son is a little bit older, and my younger son is a little bit younger, she's literally in between the two, and I'm watching what the last two years or last year and a half has done to them in terms of their mental and emotional well-being. And to me, even without social services' involvement, my children's mental health has deteriorated massively. And I cannot even begin to comprehend what this poor girl is going through. I cannot imagine how traumatized she is, and I cannot see how is she ever going to get over this, because she's been going through it since she was three, and it's not at the hand of a parent, it's at the hand of a social worker, it is the social worker's negligence. And what's interesting is a lot of social workers and people who work in social services have reached out to me since I first talked about this case, and they have all said the same thing, the amount of weight stigma in social services in the UK is shocking. It is shocking. It is perfectly acceptable to call parents abusers just because their children are overweight. 0:20:21.8 Louise: Jesus. 0:20:22.2 NL: No other reason, just your child is over the limit, is on the 90th percentile or whatever it is, your child is overweight and therefore you as a mother, usually as you said, it's a mother, are an abusive mother, because you've brought your child up in a loving environment but they failed to look the way that you want them to look, that's it. 0:20:41.0 Louise: Okay. So, that's me, right. My eldest is in the 99th percentile, so I am an abuser, I'm a child abuser. 0:20:47.3 NL: Child abuser, I can't believe I'm probably talking to one. 0:20:49.3 Louise: I know. [laughter] 0:20:49.9 NL: I can't believe I'm probably talking to one. And you know, the irony, my son's been really poorly recently and he's been up in... I mean we've spent most of our life in the hospital the last few weeks, and... 0:20:58.1 Louise: Oh dear. 0:20:58.3 NL: Went to see a paediatrician and they did the height and weight, and he is on the 98th percentile, my son has a 28-inch waist. He is a skeleton at the moment because he's been really ill, but he is mixed race, and we all know that the BMI is not particularly... 0:21:12.9 Louise: It's racist. 0:21:13.2 NL: Useful anyway, but it's massively racist, so my children have always been, if you weigh them, a lot heavier than they look, because I mean he's... There isn't an ounce of fat on him. My point is that BMI is complete utter bullshit and it doesn't deserve to exist. The fact that we've been using up until now is shameful and as a doctor, I cannot accept that we use this as a measure of whether a person is healthy and certainly as a measure of whether a child is healthy, because until recently, we were told you don't do BMIs on anyone under the age of 16 but that's just gone out the window now, everyone... 0:21:48.5 Louise: I know. 0:21:48.6 NL: Gets a BMI, even a six-year-old. 0:21:50.1 Louise: You get a BMI, you get a BMI. [laughter] I think it's not supposed to be used for an individual anything, it's a population level statistic. 0:22:01.1 NL: And a pretty crappy one at that. 0:22:02.3 Louise: It's a shitty one. 0:22:02.6 NL: It is like you said. 0:22:04.2 Louise: Yes. 0:22:04.6 NL: It's based on what European men, it's not particularly useful for men, it's not particularly useful for any other race, it's just useful perhaps. Even when it came out, like even when... What's his face? I forget his name right now, Ancel Keys. When he did that study that first look, brought in the BMI into our medical world as it were, yeah, even he said at the time it was alright. It's not the best, it's not the worst, it will do. It's the best out of the bunch. I mean he didn't even have much enthusiasm at the time. He said specifically it's not meant to be used as an individual assessment. And even the guy who kind of didn't invent it, but he sort of invented it as a measure of "obesity" and yet... And even he didn't have much good stuff to say about it. If he was selling the latest iPhone, Apple would have a lot to say about that. [laughter] I just... This fact that we've become obsessed and we know why this is. We know this is because of the diet industry, we know this is because of people trying to make money out of us and succeeding, very successful at making money out of us. 0:23:02.9 Louise: It's actually terrifying how successful this is because when I read this transcript, I've been doing a lot of work against the Novo Nordisk impact and how our modern oh, narrative has been essentially created by the pharmaceutical company that's producing all of the weight loss drugs, they have 80% of the weight loss drugs market and they've shamelessly said in their marketing that this is their drive to increase... That it's to create a sense of urgency for the medical management of obesity. And here it is, this is where it bleeds, because they're telling us this bullshit that it's going to reduce stigma. No, it's going to create eugenics. This is hideous what's happening here and I can't believe that the world didn't stop and that the front page of newspapers aren't saying like get fucked, like get these kids back. There's no outrage. 0:24:04.2 NL: No, there is none whatsoever. We got just over 2,000 people supporting the petition and as grateful as I am for that, that's just what the fuck, that's 2,000 people who live in a country of 68 million and only 2,000 people had something to say about this and, we... That's how much we hate fat kids and how much we hate fat people. We just don't see them as worthy and nobody wants to defend this young girl, nobody sort of feels sorry for her and I just... I can't get my head around this whole thing. It's funny because I didn't really know about it, a year ago I was completely clueless. It's all happened rather quickly for me that I've begun to understand Haze and begun to understand who Novo Nordisk was and what they are doing and what Semaglutide actually is and how it's going to completely change the world as we know it. 0:24:56.5 NL: I think this particular drug is going to become part of popular culture in the same way that Viagra is, we use that word now in novels and in movies. It's so popular and so understood, nobody talks about... I don't know, give me a name of any drug, like some blood pressure medication, they don't talk about it in the same way they talk about Viagra. But Semaglutide is going to be that next drug because they have tapped into this incredibly large population of people who are desperate to lose weight and they've got this medication that was originally used to treat diabetes, just like Viagra was originally used to treat blood pressure and have said, "Wow, look at this amazing side effect. It makes people lose weight as long as you run it. Let's market this." And the FDA approved it. I mean, no... 0:25:45.1 Louise: I know. 0:25:45.8 NL: No thought as to whether or not this drug is gonna have a massive impact on people in their insulin resistance and whether they're gonna develop diabetes down the line. I don't think they care. I don't think anybody actually cares. I think it's just that everybody is happy, woo-hoo, another way to treat fat people and make a good deal of money out of it. 0:26:03.9 Louise: Right? So, Semaglutide is... It's the latest weight loss drug to be approved by the FDA from Novo Nordisk and it is like the Mark II. So, they were selling Saxenda, Saxenda's here in Australia, they're pushing it out and this Semaglutide is like the Mark II, like I think of Saxenda as like Jan Brady, and Semaglutide is like Marcia. [laughter] 0:26:29.3 Louise: 'Cause it's like, "Oh my God, look at Semaglutide. Look at this amazing one year trial." [laughter] Marcia, Marcia, Marcia, like oh my God, we can make so much weight loss happen from this intervention. Why? Why do we need all of this weight loss, all these percentages? And, "Oh, we can lose 15% and 20%," and we don't need to for health, but okay. 0:26:53.3 NL: Yeah. The other thing that we have to remember about it, I don't think it's actually that much better. I've used all of these drugs in treating diabetes. So many years, I used these drugs. The beauty of it, of course, is that it's a tablet, and Saxenda is an injection. I'm assuming you have the injectable form, yeah? 0:27:09.9 Louise: That's right. You have to inject, and it's very expensive. 0:27:14.0 NL: It's extremely expensive, as will... Marcia Brady will be more expensive, I'm sure. 0:27:18.6 Louise: So high maintenance. [chuckle] 0:27:20.2 NL: Absolutely, but she is easier to administer. A lot of people don't like the idea of injecting themselves, but taking a tablet is dead easy. So, that's what makes this special, as it were, because it's the only one of that whole family that is oral, as opposed to injectable. 0:27:37.6 Louise: Well, that's interesting, because the paper with all of the big, shiny weight loss was injectable, it wasn't tablet. 0:27:43.7 NL: Oh, really? Oh, but they're marketing it as the oral version, definitely. That's the one that's got approved. It's brand name is... 0:27:51.3 Louise: Wegovy. 0:27:52.2 NL: Oh no, well, I have a completely different brand name. Is it different, maybe, in Australia? 0:27:57.1 Louise: Well, this is in America. In Australia, they haven't cornered us yet. I'm sure that they're trying to do it, but it was the FDA approval for Wegovy, [0:28:05.4] ____. 0:28:05.9 NL: So, they obviously changed the name. That's not the same one we use in diabetes. Clearly, they've had to revamp it a bit. Irrespective of oral, injectable, whatever, I think that this is going to... Novo Nordisk is sitting on a gold mine, and they know it. And it's going to change our lives, I think, because bariatric surgery is quite a big thing, and it's something that often people will say, "I'm not keen on doing." And the uptake is quite low still, and so, in bariatric... 0:28:35.2 Louise: In the UK, not here. 0:28:36.2 NL: Yeah, [chuckle] yeah, but bariatric surgeons are probably very afraid right now, because there's drugs coming along and taking all of their business away from them. 0:28:43.5 Louise: Actually, you know what Novo were doing? They're partnering with the bariatric surgeons. 0:28:46.2 NL: Of course they are. 0:28:46.9 Louise: And they're saying to them, "Hey, let's use your power and kudos, and our drugs can help your patients when they start to regain." 0:28:56.4 NL: Oh my gosh. 0:28:58.0 Louise: It's literally gateway drug. Once you start using a drug to reduce your weight, you have medicalized your weight, and it's a small upsell from there. So, I think this is all part of a giant marketing genius that is Novo Nordisk. But I'm interested to hear your concerns, 'cause I'm concerned as well with the use of diabetes drugs as weight loss medications, and I read about it being that they're hoping that people will take this drug like we take statins. So, everyone will take it preventatively for the rest of their lives. What's the long-term impact, do you think, of taking a double dose of a diabetes drug when you don't have diabetes? 0:29:43.5 NL: Well, first of all, they don't know. Nobody knows, because they've only done a study for a year, and just how many diet drugs have we put out there into the universe since the 1970s, and then taken them back a few years later, 'cause we've gone, "Oh, this kills"? If you've got diabetes and you take this drug because you've got insulin resistance and this drug helps you to combat your insulin resistance in the way that it works, you've already got diabetes. And so, there is no risk of you developing diabetes, and this drug does work, and so, I have no issue with the GLP-1 analogs in their use in diabetes. I think all the diabetes drugs are important, and I'm not an expert. But you've really got to ask yourself, if you take a healthy body and you act on a system within the pancreas and within the body, in a healthy, essentially, healthy body, healthy pancreas, you've got to ask yourself if it's going to worsen insulin resistance over time. It's actually going to lead to increased cases of diabetes. Now, they say it won't, but... 0:30:47.4 Louise: How do they know that? 'Cause I've read a study by Novo, sponsored, in rats, that showed that it did lead to insulin resistance long-term. 0:30:57.6 NL: Right, I think common sense, because we understand that the way that the body works, just common sense. The way the body works suggests to me that over long periods of time, taking this medication in a healthy person is going to lead to increased insulin resistance, which in turn will lead to diabetes. That is what common sense dictates. But of course, as you said, we don't know. We don't have a study. Nobody has looked into this. And it makes me sad that we are using a drug to treat a condition that isn't a condition. 0:31:30.2 Louise: I know, yeah. [chuckle] 0:31:32.4 NL: And inadvertently, potentially giving people a whole... 0:31:36.0 Louise: Creating a condition. 0:31:36.6 NL: Creating an actual medical condition, which we all know to be life-threatening if untreated. And so, I cannot fathom why... Well, I can, I understand. It's for financial reasons only, but I can't understand why there are doctors out there that want to prescribe this. This is the issue that I have. I'm a doctor, and I can't speak on behalf of drug companies or politicians or anyone else, but I can speak to what doctors are supposed to be doing, and we have a very strong code of conduct that we have to abide by. We have ethical and moral principles and legal obligations to our patients. And so, doing no harm and doing what is in your patients' best interest, and practising fairly and without discrimination, and giving people... Allowing them to make an informed choice where they are aware of the risks and the side effects and all the different treatment options. 0:32:28.0 NL: When it comes to being fat, again, it seems to have gone out the window. None of these things are happening. We wouldn't dream of addressing other issues this way, it's just fatness, because it's just so commonly, widely accepted that fatness is bad and you've got to do whatever you can to get rid of it. I've had someone tell me today that they are pregnant with their first child and they had their first conversation with the anesthetist, who told them they had to do whatever they could to lose weight before they had their baby. This is a pregnant woman. 0:32:58.1 Louise: Whatever they had to do? 0:33:00.1 NL: Whatever they had to do, and she said, "What do you want me to do, buy drugs off the streets?" And the anesthetist said... Wait for it. The anesthetist said, "It would be safer for you to use a Class A drugs than it would for you to be fat in pregnancy". The anesthetist said that to this woman. She told me this and I just went "Please just... Can you just report him?" 0:33:21.7 Louise: Shut the front door, Jesus Christ! 0:33:24.6 NL: Can you imagine? First of all, that's not true. Second of all, he is saying that it is better to be a drug addict than to be a fat person. This is no judgment on drug addicts, but you do not encourage your patients to use Class A drugs to lose weight. That's stupid. Imagine if he'd said that about anything else, but in his... And it was a man, in his world, for whatever reason, his ethics just abandons them all in favor of fat shaming a woman. 0:33:52.4 Louise: This is where we're at with, it's self examined. It's like there's a massive black hole of stigma just operating unchallenged effortlessly and actually growing, thanks to this massive marketing department, Novo. It's terrify... That poor lady, I'm so glad she's found you and I hope she's not gonna go down the Class A drug route. [laughter] 0:34:19.3 NL: She's definitely not, but she was quite traumatized. She's on a Facebook group that I started and it's great because it's 500 people who are just so supportive of each other and it was within a few minutes 50 comments going "What a load of crap, I can't believe this," "You're great, this doctor is terrible". But it just stuck to me that one of my colleagues would dare, would have the audacity to do something as negligent as that. And I'm gonna call it what it is. That's negligence. But I'm seeing it all the time. I'm seeing it in healthcare, I'm seeing it in Social Services, I'm seeing it in schools, I'm seeing it in the workplace, I'm seeing it everywhere. You cannot escape it. And as a fat person, who was in the morbidly, super fat, super obese stage where she's just basically needs to just be put down like a... 0:35:16.3 Louise: Oh my gosh, it's awful. 0:35:18.5 NL: And as that person, I hear all of these things and I just think "I'm actually a fairly useful member of society, I've actually never been ill, never required any medication, managed to give birth to my children, actually to be fair, they had to come out my zip as opposed to through the tunnel." But that wasn't because I was fat, that was because they were awkward. But this anesthetist telling this woman that she's too fat to have a baby. I was just like "But I am the same weight. I am the same BMI as you". And I had three and I had no problems with my anesthetics. In fact after my third cesarean section, I walked out the hospital 24 hours later, happy as Larry, didn't have any problems. And I know people who were very, very thin that had a massive problems after their cesarean. So there's not even evidence to show how dangerous it is to have a BMI over 35 and still... And then caught when it comes to an anesthetic. This isn't even evidence-based, it's just superstition at this point. 0:36:12.8 Louise: It's a biased based and the guidelines here in Australia, so I think above 35 women are advised to have a cesarean because it's too dangerous. And women are not allowed to give birth in rural hospitals, they have to fly to major cities. So imagine all of... And don't even get me started on bias in medical care for women. It's everywhere, like you said, and it's unexamined and all of this discrimination in the name of, apparently, healthcare. It's scary. 0:36:43.9 NL: It really is. Gosh, you've got me fired up, it's almost 1:00 in the morning and I'm fired up. I'm never gonna get to sleep now. [laughter] 0:36:51.7 Louise: Okay, I don't wanna tell you this, but I will. 'Cause we're talking about how on earth is this possible, like why aren't there any medical experts involved to talk about this from a scientific basis, and I'm worried that even if they did have medical people in the court, they wouldn't have actually stuck up for the kid. I found this JAMA article from 2011. It's a commentary on whether or not large kids should be removed from their families, and it was supportive of that. 0:37:18.0 NL: Oh gosh. Of course it was. 0:37:22.0 Louise: And in response to that commentary, the medpage, which is a medical website, a newsletter kind of thing. They did a poll of health professionals asking should larger kids removed from their families, and 54% said yes. 0:37:40.7 NL: Of course. 0:37:41.3 Louise: I know. Isn't that dreadful? One comment on that said "It seems to me the children in a home where they have become morbidly obese might be suffering many other kinds of abuse as well, viewing in the size of a child. 'Cause we've all gotten bigger since the '80s. We're a larger population and viewing that as abuse and as a fault of parenting. Unbelievable. I also had a little dig around Australia, 'cause it's not isolated in the UK, there's so many more cases. 0:38:16.9 NL: They have. Yeah. 0:38:17.8 Louise: And I think actually in the UK, it might be a lot more common than in Australia. 0:38:22.1 NL: Yeah, I can believe that. 0:38:23.5 Louise: But it did happen here in 2012, there was some report of two children being removed from their families because of the size of the kids. And the media coverage was actually quite dreadful. I'll put in the show notes, this article, and the title is "Victorian authorities remove obese children, removed from their parents". So even the title is wrong, couldn't even get their semantics right. There's a picture, you can imagine what picture would accompany... 0:38:55.2 NL: Well of course it can't be of the actual children, because I think it leads to lawsuit. I'm assuming it's a belly. Is there a belly? Is there a fat person in it or a fat child eating a burger? 0:39:06.2 Louise: Yes. [laughter] 0:39:07.1 NL: Sorry, it's either the belly or the fat person eating the burger. So, a fat child eating the burger, sorry. 0:39:11.9 Louise: Helpfully, to help the visually impaired, the picture had caption and the caption reads "Overweight brother and sister sitting side by side on a sofa eating takeaway food and watching the TV." So not at all stereotyped, very sensitive, nuanced article this one. And then we hear from Professor John Dixon, who is a big part of obesity Inc here in Australia. He told the ABC that "Sometimes taking children away from their parents is the best option." In the same article, he also admits "There's no services available that can actually help kids lose weight", and he says that it's not the parents fault. Helpfully, this article also states that "Obesity is the leading cause of illness and death in Australia." [laughter] 0:39:58.7 NL: I love it when I hear that. How have they figured that out? What do they do to decide that? Where does this... 0:40:08.4 Louise: They don't have to provide any actual evidence. 0:40:10.5 NL: Right. They just say it. 0:40:12.1 Louise: Got it. 0:40:13.0 NL: Just say it. 0:40:14.4 Louise: Diet. And I checked just to make sure, 'cause in case I've missed anything. 0:40:18.4 NL: Yeah. 0:40:19.6 Louise: The top five causes of death in Australia in 2019; heart disease, number two dementia, number three stroke, number four malignant neoplasm of trachea bronchus and lung. 0:40:30.4 NL: Lung cancer. 0:40:30.9 Louise: Lung cancer. 0:40:31.5 NL: That's lung cancer. 0:40:32.3 Louise: And number five chronic lower respiratory disease. 0:40:38.4 NL: So translation. Heart attacks, dementia... In the UK it's actually dementia first, then heart attacks. So dementia, heart attacks, stroke, same thing in the UK, and then lung cancer and COPD. Both of those are smoking-related illnesses. And I can say quite safely that they are smoking-related illness because the chance of developing lung cancer or COPD if you haven't smoked is minuscule. So what the people are doing is they're saying, "Well, we can attribute all of these heart attacks and strokes and dementia to "obesity". And the way we can do that is we just look at all these people that have died, and if they are fat we'll just assume it's their fat that caused their heart disease. 0:41:20.0 NL: To make it very clear to everybody that is listening, if you have a BMI of 40, we can calculate your risk of developing a heart attack or a stroke over the next 10 years using a very sophisticated calculator actually, it's been around for some time. It's what we use in the UK. I'm assuming Australia has a similar one, don't know what it's called there. In the UK it's called a QRISK. So I've done this. I have calculated. I have found a woman, I called her Jane. I gave her a set of blood pressure and cholesterol, and I filled in a template. And then I gave her a BMI of 20. And then I gave her a BMI of 40. And I calculated the difference in her risk. I calculated the difference in her risk, and the difference in her risk was exactly 3%. The difference in her risk if she was a smoker was 50%. She was 50% more likely to have a heart attack if she was a smoker, but only 3% more likely to have a heart attack if she had a BMI of 40 instead of a BMI of 25. 0:42:15.0 NL: To put it into perspective, she was significantly more likely to have a heart attack if she was a migraine sufferer, if she had a mental health condition, if she had lupus or rheumatoid arthritis, if she was Asian, if she was a man, and all of those things dramatically increased her risk more than having a BMI of 40. So it's just very important that doctors will admit, 'cause it's about admitting to a simple fact, this calculator we use to predict people's risks. So if we know that weight only has a 3-4% impact on our cardiovascular risk as opposed to smoking which has a 50% impact, as opposed to aging which is why most people die because they get old and let's face it everybody dies some time. 0:43:04.0 NL: So what's happening is the... Whoever they are, are taking all these deaths from heart disease which was likely caused by the person aging, by the person being male or just being old and being over the age of 75, your risk of heart disease goes up massively irrespective of your weight. So instead of saying, "Well, it's just heart disease", they've gone, "Well, it's heart disease in a fat person and therefore it was the fatness that caused the heart disease." And that is offensive to me to the point that now, I have heard... And this is awful in this year, our patients that are dying of COVID, if they die of COVID in the UK, it's actually quite heart breaking, it's happened to someone that I was close to. If they die of COVID in the UK, and they happen to be fat, the doctor writes "obesity" on their death certificate... 0:43:51.8 Louise: No way. 0:43:52.4 NL: As a cause of death. They died of COVID. 0:43:55.2 Louise: What? 0:43:55.5 NL: They died of COVID. That's what they died of. They died of this terrible virus that is killing people in their droves but people are under the misguided impression that being fat predisposes you to death from COVID, which is not true. It's not true. That is a complete gross misrepresentation of the facts. But we've now got doctors placing that on a person's death certificate. Can you imagine how that family feels? Can you imagine what it feels like to get this death certificate saying, "Your family member is dead from COVID but it's their fault 'cause they were obese." And how can the doctor know? How could the doctor know that? 0:44:34.2 Louise: How can they do that? 0:44:35.6 NL: How can they do that? And this is my point, this doctor that's turning around and saying it's safer for children to be removed from their loving home. Obviously, this person has no idea of the psychological consequences of being removed from your family. But it's safer for that person to be removed from their home than to remain in their home and remain fat. What will you achieve? Is this person going to lose weight? No. I can tell you what this person is going to do. This person is going to develop... 0:44:58.9 Louise: They even say that. They even say that in the transcripts. We don't think that they'll get any more supervision. 0:45:03.1 NL: Yeah. In fact, we're gonna get less supervision because it's not a loving parent. You're going to develop, most likely an eating disorder. You're going to develop serious psychological scars. That trauma is going to lead to mental health problems down the line. And chances are you're just gonna get bigger. You're not gonna get smaller because we know that 95% of people who lose weight gain it all back again. We know that two-thirds of them end up heavier. We know that the more you diet, the heavier you're gonna get. And that actually, this has been shown to be like a dose-response thing in some studies. So the more diets you go on, the higher your weight is going to get. If you don't diet ever in your life, chances are you're not gonna have as many weight problems later on down the line. So, as you're saying, we are living in a society that's got fatter. And there's lots of reasons for that. It's got to do with the food that we're eating now. That we're all eating. That we're all consuming. 0:45:55.1 Louise: Food supply. Only some of us will express from there the epigenetic glory of becoming higher weight. 0:46:02.0 NL: Right. And that's the thing, isn't it? Genetics, hormones, trauma, medications. How many people do I know that are on psychiatric medications and have gained weight as a result, Clozapine or... It's just what's gonna happen. You name it. Being female, having babies, so many things will determine your weight. 0:46:21.0 Louise: Getting older. We're allowed to get... We're supposed to get bigger as we get older. 0:46:25.1 NL: And then you know that actually, there are so many studies nowadays, so many studies that we've labeled it now that show that actually being fat can be beneficial to you. There's studies that show that if you end up in ICU with sepsis, you're far more likely to survive if you're fat. If you've got a BMI over 30, you're more likely to survive. There's studies that show that if you have chronic kidney disease and you're on dialysis, the chances of you surviving more long-term are significantly higher if you're fat. Heart failure, kidney disease, ICU admissions, in fact, even after a heart attack, there's evidence to show that you're more likely to survive if you're fat. And they call this the obesity paradox. We have to call it a paradox because we cannot, for one moment, admit that actually there's a possibility that being fat isn't all that bad for you in the first place and we got it wrong. Rather than admit that we got it wrong, we've labeled a paradox because we have to be right here, we have to... 0:47:18.0 Louise: Yeah, it's like how totally bad and wrong, except in certain rare, weird conditions, as opposed to, "Let's just drop the judgment and look at all of this much less hysterically." 0:47:29.5 NL: Yeah. And studies have shown that putting children on a diet, talking about weight, weight-shaming them, weighing them, any of these things, have been linked to and have been demonstrated to cause disordered eating and be a serious risk for direct factor for weight gain. And that, in my opinion, is the important thing to remember in this particular case, because as I said, social services start in weight-shaming, judging, and talking about weight when these children were three and six, and they did that for 10 years. And in doing so, they are responsible for the fact that these children went on to gain weight, because that's what the evidence shows. And there's no question about this evidence, there's multiple papers to back it up. 0:48:14.1 NL: There's an article published in Germany in 2016, there was an article published last year by the University of Cambridge, and even the American Academy of Pediatrics agrees that talking about weight, putting children on a diet, in fact, even a parent going on a diet is enough to damage that child and increase their risk of developing disordered eating patterns and weight gain. 0:48:37.9 NL: And so, as far as I'm concerned, that to me, is evidence enough to say that it's actually social services that should be in front of a judge, not these children, but it's the social workers that should be held to account. And I have written... And this is something that is very important to say. I wrote to the council, the local authority, and I've written a very long letter, I've published it on my website. You can read it anytime, anyone can read it. And I wrote to them and I said, "This is the evidence. Here are all the links. As far as I'm concerned, you guys got it terribly wrong and you have demonstrated that there is a high degree of weight bias that is actually causing damage to children. I am prepared to come and train you for free and teach all of your social workers all about weight bias, weight stigma, and to basically dispel the myths that obviously are pervading your social work department." And they ignored me. I wrote to politicians in the area. They ignored me. I wrote to a counselor who's a member of my political party, who just claimed, "Yeah, I'll look into it for you." Never heard from her again. Yeah, nobody cares. 0:49:44.0 Louise: It's just such a lack of concern. 0:49:45.7 NL: I didn't even do it in a critical way. I had to do it in a kind of, "I will help you. Let me help you. I'm offering my services for free. I do charge, normally, but I'll do it for free for you guys." No one is interested. Nobody wants to know. And that makes me really sad, that they weren't even willing to hear me out. 0:50:03.0 Louise: I can't believe they didn't actually even answer you. 0:50:06.5 NL: Didn't answer me, didn't respond to any of my messages, none of the counselors, none of the... Nobody has responded, and I've tried repeatedly. 0:50:14.4 Louise: So, this is in West Sussex, yeah? 0:50:16.7 NL: That's right, West Sussex, that's right. 0:50:18.0 Louise: You know what's weird about that? I've actually attended a wedding at that council, that my ex-father-in-law got married there. And when I saw the picture there, I'm like, "Oh my God, I've actually been there." So, I had a poke, and I don't know if you know this, but hopefully, in the future, when those children, C and D, finally decide to sue the council, that they can use this as evidence. There is a report from a... It's called a commissioner's progress report on children services in West Sussex from October 2020, which details how awful the service has been for the past few years, and huge issues with how they're running things. And it says, "Quite fragile and unstable services in West Sussex." So, this family who've had their kids removed were being cared for by a service with massive problems, are being referred to programs that don't work, and that there's a massive miscarriage of justice. 0:51:17.3 NL: And I'm glad you're talking about it, and I'm glad we're talking about it. And I wish that we had the platform to talk about it more vocally. I'd want to be able to reach out to these... To see patients... They're not patients, child C and D. I want to be able to reach out to mum as well, and say... 0:51:36.3 Louise: I just wanna land in Sussex and just walk around the street saying, "Where are you? I wanna help." 0:51:40.2 NL: "Where are you? And let me hug you." And I'm very interest to know, I'd be very interested to know the ethnic origin of these young people. 0:51:48.9 Louise: And the socio-economic status of these people. 0:51:50.2 NL: Socio-economic status, 100%. I would very much like to know that. That would make a huge... I think that I can guess, I'm not going to speculate, but I had a very lovely young woman contact me from a... She was now an adult, but she had experienced this as a child. She had been removed from her home and was now an adult, and she had been in foster care, in social services, for a few years, and had obviously contact with her mum but hadn't been reunited with her mum ever. So it wasn't like it was for a time and then she went back. And we talked about this. She was in a London borough, I shall not name the borough, but I know for a fact that her race would've played a role in this, because she was half-Black, half-Turkish. 0:52:39.2 NL: And there're a few things in that court transcript that caught my attention. I don't know if you noticed there was a mention of the smell from the kitchen, and they didn't specifically said, you know, mould, or you know that there was mould in the kitchen, or there was something in the kitchen that was rotting, something like that, 'cause I think they would have specified. It was just a smell. And that made me wonder, is this to do with just the fact that maybe this family lived in poor housing or was it the type of food that they were cooking for their children? Is there a language issue, is there a cultural issue. What exactly is going on? 'cause we don't know that from the court transcript, so that's another thing that... Another piece of the puzzle that I would really be interested in. Is this a white wealthy family? Probably not. I don't think they are. 0:53:27.2 Louise: Yeah it didn't struck me that way either. Yeah, yeah this is potentially marginalization and racism happening that... 0:53:35.1 NL: Yeah. 0:53:35.9 Louise: And here in Australia, we've got an awful history of how we treated First Nations people and we removed indigenous kids from their families, on the basis of like we know better, and I just... Yeah honestly, elements of that here, like we know better. 0:53:51.5 NL: Yes. Right, this is it. We know better than you have to parent your child. I am have always been a big believer of not restricting my children's feed in any way. I was restricted, and I made the decision when we had the kids that there would just be no restriction at all. I have like been one of those parents that had just been like, that's the draw with all the sweet treats in it. They're not called treats, they're just sweets and chocolate and candy, there it is. It's within reachable distance. Help yourself whenever you want, ice pops in the freezer, there's no like you have to eat that to get your pudding. None of that. 0:54:27.6 NL: My kids have just been able to eat whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted, I never restricted anything, I wanted them to be intuitive eaters. And of course they are, and what amazes me is now my teenage son, when we were on lockdown, and he was like homeschooled, he would come downstairs, make himself a breakfast, and there was like three portions of fruit and veg on his plate, and not because someone told him that he had to, but just because he knew it was good for him and he knew it was healthy, there was like a selection, his plate was always multi-colored, he was drinking plenty of water. He would go and cook it, he cooked himself lunch, he knew that he can eat sweets and crisps and chocolate whenever he wanted to, and he didn't, he just didn't. Like it was there, that drawn, it gets emptied out because it's become a bit... But no, they don't take it, and sometimes they do, 'cause they fancy it, but most of the times they don't. And that is my decision as a parent, I believe that I have done what is in their best interest, I believe that I will prove over time that this has had a much better impact on their health, not restricting them. 0:55:26.4 Louise: Absolutely, Yeah. 0:55:27.6 NL: But the point is they're my children, and it was my damn choice, and even if my child is on the 98th percentile, it's still my damn choice, nobody gets to tell me how to parent my child. That is my child, I know what's best for them. And I believe that my children are going to prove the fact that this is a great way of parenting, and I know that actually most of their friends who had, were not allowed to eat the food that they wanted to eat used to come over to our house and just kind of like wide eyed. And they binge, they binge, you know, to the point that I have to restrict them and say I actually I don't think mom would like that if I gave that to you. 0:56:00.0 Louise: We know that that's what we do when we put kids in food deserts, we breed binge eating and food insecurity, and trying to teach our kids to have a relaxed and enjoyable relationship with food is what intuitive eating is all about. And without a side salad of fat phobia, we're not doing this relationship with food stuff in order to make sure you're thin, we're doing this to make sure that you feel really safe and secure in the world, and you know health is sometimes controllable and sometimes not, and this kind of mad obsession we have with controlling our food and the ability it will give us like everlasting life is weird. 0:56:39.0 NL: Yeah. 0:56:39.7 Louise: Yeah. Gosh, I'm so glad you're parenting those kids in that way and I've noticed the same thing with my kids. Like my kids, we are a family of intuitive eaters and it's just really relaxed, and there's variety, and they go through these little love affairs with foods, and it's really cute. [chuckle] And they're developing their palettes, and their size is not up to me. 0:57:05.8 NL: Yeah. 0:57:06.4 Louise: Yeah. 0:57:07.4 NL: Right. 0:57:08.1 Louise: It's up to me to help them thrive. 0:57:10.7 NL: That's right. And when people talk about health, I often hear people talking about health, and whenever they ask me that question, you know, surely you can agree that being fat is not good for your health, well, I'll always kinda go, "Oh Really? Could you just do me a favor here and define health?" Because I spend my whole life trying to define health, and I'm not sure that I've got there yet, but I can tell you without a doubt that this for me, in my personal experience as a doctor... And I've been a doctor for a long time now, and I see patients all the time, and I'm telling you that in my experience, the most important thing for your health is your mental and emotional well-being, that if you are not mentally and emotionally well, it doesn't matter how good your cholesterol is, it doesn't matter whether or not you've got diabetes, that is irrelevant, because if you're not mental and emotional... I'm not saying that 'cause you won't enjoy life, I mean, it has an impact on your physical health. And I spend most of my day dealing with either people who are depressed or anxious, and that's what they've presented with, or they've presented with symptoms that are being made worse or exacerbated by their mental and emotional pull, mental and emotional well-being. 0:58:19.1 NL: So giving my children the best start in life has always been about giving them a good mental and emotional well, start. It's about giving... It's not just teaching them resilience, but teaching them to love themselves, to be happy with who they are, to not feel judged or to not feel that they are anything other than the brilliant human beings that they are. And I believe that that is what's going to stand them in the greatest... In the greatest... I've lost my words now, but that's what's gonna get them through life, and that's why they're going to be healthy. And how much sugar they eat actually is quite irrelevant compared to the fact that they love themselves and their bodies, and they are great self-esteem, we all know that happiness is... Happiness is the most important thing when it comes to quality of life and happiness is the most important thing when it comes to length of life and illness, all of it. Happiness trumps everything else. 0:59:07.0 Louise: And to you know what that comes from. Happiness comes from a sense of belonging, belonging in our bodies, belonging in ourselves, belonging in the community, and all of this othering that's happening with the message that everyone belongs unless they're fat. That sucks ass and that needs to stop. This poor little kid when, in the transcript it mentioned that they found a suicide note... 0:59:29.9 NL: Yes. 0:59:30.1 Louise: And some pills. And she's fucking like 13. 0:59:34.8 NL: Yeah, and they called it a cry for help. 0:59:36.0 Louise: They called it cry for help 'cause of her body. 0:59:38.1 NL: Yeah. 0:59:38.4 Louise: They didn't recognize it since they've been sniffing around threatening to take her off her mom, and because she's being bullied for her size at school. This is like a calamitous failure to see the impact of weight stigma. 0:59:52.9 NL: She's been told that it's her fault that she's been taken away from her mum. They had told her that because she didn't succeed in losing weight, that she doesn't get to live with her mother anymore. Can you imagine? 1:00:02.4 Louise: So her mom. I can't even wrap my head around that. I can't. 1:00:07.2 NL: Well, she feels suicidal, I think I would too. I felt suicidal at her age and for a lot less. It's terrible, it's terrible. And I hope she's hanging on and I hope that... 1:00:14.6 Louise: I wanna tell her that she is awesome. 1:00:17.4 NL: Yes. 1:00:17.9 Louise: If she ever gets to listen to this. But I know the impact. So like when I was 11, my mom left and I remember how much it tore out my heart. 1:00:26.4 NL: Yeah. 1:00:26.9 Louise: You're 11... 1:00:27.5 NL: Yeah. 1:00:28.3 Louise: 12, 13. This is not the time to do this to kids, and this whole idea... The judge said something like, "Oh, you know, gosh, this is gonna be bad... " But here it is, I will read it to you. This is... She actually wrote a letter to the kids. 1:00:42.5 NL: Oh, gosh. 1:00:43.7 Louise: "I know you will feel that in making this o

Fat Kids Are Not Child Abuse With The Fat Doctor UK

Life Coaching for Women Physicians

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 14, 2021 73:37

Imagine being 13 years old, standing in front of a judge, accused of the "crime" of being fat. Imagine the incredible pain you would feel as the judge announces that in the interests of your 'health', you will be removed from your family. But there's no need to imagine. During the height of the UK COVID-19 pandemic, two children were removed from their loving home and put into foster care. The ONLY reason was that both kids were fat. This harrowing story raised the ire of the fabulous Fat Doctor UK, who advocated and pleaded and offered to help educate the social workers, judge, and anyone who would listen, but her valiant attempts have so far been ignored. Two kids have lost their families, thanks to fatphobia. Join me and the fabulous Fat Doctor UK as we get UTTERLY fired up about this travesty of justice. This is a tough listen so please make sure you have adequate spoons. Show Transcript 0:00:12.7 Louise: Welcome to All Fired Up. I'm Louise, your host. And this is the podcast where we talk all things anti-diet. Has diet culture got you in a fit of rage? Is the injustice of the beauty ideal? Getting your knickers in a twist? Does fitspo, make you wanna spit spo? Are you ready to hurl if you hear one more weight loss tip? Are you ready to be mad, loud and proud? Well, you've come to the right place. Let's get all fired up. 0:00:40.3 Louise: Hello, diet culture drop-outs. I'm so pleased to be with you again and very excited about today's episode. Okay, so first of all, I wanna say a massive thank you to all of the listeners who are so faithful and loving. And I love all your messages and emails, so keep them coming. And if you love the show, don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss the episodes as they pop out on a roughly monthly basis. And if you love us, give us five stars because the more five star reviews we get, particularly on Apple Podcasts, the louder the message is, the more listeners we get and the quicker we can topple diet culture. And that's the objective here. 0:01:24.7 Louise: If you're looking for some free stuff to help you with your anti-diet journey, gosh I hate that word. Let's call it an adventure. Anti-Diet Adventure, 'cause that's what it is. It's rocking and rolling. It's up and down. It's not predictable. But if you're looking for a resource where you might be going to medical visit, you might be trying to explain just what you're doing to friends and family, look no further than the free e-book; Everything You've Been Told About Weightloss Is Bullshit, written by me and the Anti-Diet Advanced doctor dietician, Dr Fiona Willer. In it we're busting the top 10 myths that float around diet culture like poo in a swimming pool, about the relationship between health and weight, and we're busting myths left, right and centre. 0:02:06.8 Louise: It's a really awesome resource. It's crammed full of science and facts and it will really help steel you and give you the armour that you need to push back against diet culture. So if you wanna grab a copy, it's absolutely free. Like I said, you can go to Instagram which is untrapped_ au and click on the link in the bio and grab a copy there. Or you can go to the website untrapped.com.au and a little pop-up will come and you will grab it there. More free stuff, if you are struggling with relationship with your body during the last couple of years in particular, Befriending Your Body is my free e-course. All about self-compassion, this amazing skill of being kind and befriending your body. And it's like a super power, self-compassion, because we're all taught from the moment we're born, practically, to disconnect and dislike and judge and body police ourselves. Not exactly a recipe for happiness and satisfaction. 0:03:05.9 Louise: So, this little e-course will help build the skill of self-compassion, which is absolutely awesome because if we can learn to connect with our imperfect bodies, we can learn to inhabit them, to look after them and to push back against the forces that are still trying to get us separate from them. You can find the Befriending Your Body e-course from Instagram. So, untrapped_au. Click on the link, Befriending Your Body, it's all free, it's beautiful. It's just so lovely to practice self-compassion meditations. Self-compassion is built for difficult times. And my friends, we're in a difficult time. So, get hold of that if you haven't already. 0:03:47.6 Louise: Big shout out and hello to all of the Untrapped community, the Master Class and online community, who we meet every week. We push back against diet culture together. We share our stories, we've been supporting each other through the various challenges of lockdown and it's just a wonderful community of awesome human beings. So, if you're struggling and you want to join a community, as well as learning all of the skills of how to do things like intuitive eating, returning to a relationship with moving your body that doesn't feel like hard work. Understanding weight stigma and weight prejudice, relationship with body, all of that kind of stuff is covered in this comprehensive course, Untrapped, which I co-created in 2017 with 11 other amazing anti-diet health professionals. 0:04:39.9 Louise: So if you wanna grab a hold of this program and join our online community, please do and now's the time. We're meeting weekly. So every Saturday, I meet with the whole community and we have an awesome chinwag about everything that's going on. You also get all of the material. And there's other things that happened throughout the year like events and retreats. Well, if they're not scuppered by COVID. [chuckle] In usual times, we are able to do that. Well, if that's not being scuppered by COVID, of course. But in ordinary times, we do extra stuff. So find out more about Untrapped on the website, untrapped.com.au. You can also find a link from Insta. So, I think that's a run through all of the preamble. 0:05:23.5 Louise: Now, we arrive at the exciting time. I am so excited to bring you today's episode. You would have heard of the Fat Doctor UK by now, because she burst onto the internet a few months ago. And it seems like she's everywhere and she is loud and she is angry and she's a GP. So, here we have a very fierce, fat-positive voice, straight out of the UK medical profession, which is sorely needed. And I've just got so much admiration for Natasha and everything that she's doing. And I was actually listening to the Mindful Dietician podcast when I first heard Natasha being interviewed by the wonderful, Fi Sutherland. And during that conversation, she mentioned an awful situation in the UK where two kids were removed from their family for being fat. 0:06:13.9 Louise: And I'd actually seen that story and was so horrified that I kind of shelved it a way. But hearing Natasha talk about it and what she decided to do about it herself, it just inspired me. I just knew I had to talk to her. So this episode is everything. It's a long one, and it's a bloody rollercoaster. We go a lot of places during this epic, fantastic conversation. So you are going to laugh, you are going to cry. You're gonna cry more than once, because I know I did. You're gonna be absolutely furious, because just what we're talking about is just so horrific. We are in the 21st century and kids are being removed from loving homes simply because of BMI and a failure to do the impossible, which is lose weight and keep it off via the epic fail of dieting. 0:07:06.8 Louise: So look, this is really a challenging episode to listen to. It's a horrible story but the conversation with The Fat Doctor, Natasha herself is nothing short of inspiring. This woman is on a crusade. She has got heaps of other people involved in changing the landscape in a meaningful way. She is a real champion in the UK and across the planet, and I know you're gonna enjoy this conversation, but have some tissues close by and keep your slow breathing going to help contain the rage 'cause it's real. So without further ado, I give you me and The Fat Doctor herself, Natasha Larmie. So Tash, thank you so much for coming on the show. 0:07:49.0 Natasha Larmie: Thank you so much for having me, I am so excited. Due to the time difference, it's past midnight now and I've never been this awake past midnight before, so I'm really looking forward to this talk. 0:07:58.8 Louise: Oh my god, I am so impressed with your fired up-ness. [laughter] [laughter] 0:08:04.6 Louise: Tell me what is firing you up. 0:08:07.3 NL: Just in general or specifically about this case? 'Cause obviously a lot of things are firing me up, but I mean, obviously... 0:08:11.7 Louise: Yes. 0:08:12.5 NL: We wanna talk about this particular case that's firing me up. 0:08:16.3 Louise: Yes, what is this case? 0:08:17.9 NL: Yeah, what's going on with this case. So I think it was back in September, October last year that it happened, but I became aware of it a few months later, where two young people, one was actually over the age of 16 and his sibling, his younger sibling is under the age of 16, had been removed from a very loving home, for all intents and purposes, a very loving, happy home and placed into foster care by a judge simply because they were fat, and there is really no other reason at all. There was no other signs of child abuse, neglect, physical abuse, emotional abuse, nothing. It's just because they were fat and they failed to lose weight, a judge removed them from a loving home and placed them in foster care, and the older sibling, I think he's 16, 17, didn't actually have to go in because he was too old and the younger girl, she's 13, and she was removed from her home. 0:09:11.5 NL: And when I read about it I think I was so disgusted, it sort of broke... One newspaper reports on it in the UK, and it was several weeks later I guess, because the court transcript had come out, and I read it, I read the article, and I just thought, "Well, this is just the press over-exaggerating." And then someone said... One friend of mine sent me a text message saying, "No, no, no, just read the court's transcript. Transcript, read it," and sent me a link to the court transcript. I read the whole thing and within an hour I think I read the whole thing, and I was in tears. I was so full of rage that I just felt like something had to be done and started a petition. Have tried really hard to get answers, to push people to look into this case but unfortunately, haven't got very far because we're dealing with people who have very much kind of shut us down and have said, "It's not your concern. This is a judge who made this decision and there's nothing you can do about it." 0:10:05.4 Louise: Really? 0:10:05.7 NL: So I'm pretty fired up. Yeah. 0:10:07.2 Louise: Oh, god. Oh, I mean, when you say it out loud, like my whole body is responding. When I read the court transcripts last night, I put it off because I knew that I just probably would have a massive reaction and I was crying too, because this transcript is literally fucking heartbreaking. 0:10:26.5 NL: Tears. 0:10:27.2 Louise: That they're all admitting that this is... No one wants to be split up, they love each other but there's this stupid idea, as if everybody is completely unaware of science and weight science and how fucked dieting is. 0:10:41.5 NL: Yeah. 0:10:42.2 Louise: And how it doesn't fucking work. 0:10:44.4 NL: No. 0:10:44.7 Louise: And it's in a pandemic. 0:10:46.0 NL: Yeah, yeah. 0:10:46.7 Louise: If I fail to lose weight in a lockdown, when the world was going mad... 0:10:51.6 NL: And I mean, actually, the story begins I think 10 years previously, the story begins when they were three and six. These were two children, a three-year-old and a six-year-old who were picked up most likely because... I don't know if it's the same in Australia, but in the UK we have a screening program, so in year one, which is between the age of five and six, you are weighed and measured by a school nurse, and they... 0:11:13.4 Louise: Really? 0:11:13.9 NL: Yeah. And do you not have that? No. 0:11:15.6 Louise: No. 0:11:15.7 NL: We have. This is the National Child Measurement Programme, there's a acronym, but I didn't bother to learn. 0:11:21.2 Louise: Oh my god. 0:11:21.6 NL: But it happens in year one, which is when you're between five and six, and again in year six, which is when you're between 10 and 11. 0:11:29.0 Louise: Oh Christ. 0:11:29.2 NL: Two of the worst times to weigh people... 0:11:30.0 Louise: Correct, yeah. 0:11:32.0 NL: If you're think about it, because of course, especially around the 10, 11 stage some people are heading towards puberty, pre-puberty, some people are not, and so those that are heading towards pre-puberty will often have gained quite a bit of weight because you know that always happens before you go through puberty, you kind of go out before you go up, and that's completely normal, but they get penalised. But anyway, so I imagine... I don't know, because that's not actually in the transcripts but I'm guessing that at six, the older sibling, the boy was shown to be grossly overweight or whatever they call it, morbidly obese. They probably just measured his BMI, even though he was six, they probably measured it, which is just ridiculous 'cause that's not what BMI is for, and rather than looking at growth charts, which is what we should be doing at that age, they will have just sent a letter home and the teachers would have got involved and somewhere along the line, social services would have been called just because of the weight, nothing else, just because of the weight, and social services... 0:12:25.8 Louise: Just because of the percentile of a BMI. 0:12:28.5 NL: That was all it was. It was just weight. There was literally no concerns of ever been raised about these kids apart from their weight. And at the age of three and six, social services got involved and started forcing these children to diet, and they will say that's not what they did, they tried to promote healthy eating, but when you take a three-year-old and a six-year-old and you tell them... You restrict what they eat, you force them to exercise, and you tell them there's something wrong with them, you are putting them on a diet at the age of three to six, and we know, for sure, with evidence, you know, I know, and everyone listening should know by now that when you put young children on a diet like that at such a young age and you make such a big deal out of their weight, they are going to develop disordered eating patterns, and they are going to... 0:13:06.8 Louise: Of course. 0:13:07.8 NL: Gain weight, so... 0:13:09.3 Louise: They're going to instead, that's a trauma process happening. 0:13:12.2 NL: That's true. Yeah, it's... 0:13:13.8 Louise: A trauma to get child protective services involved. 0:13:17.8 NL: Yeah, and live there for 10 years, and then... 0:13:21.4 Louise: Ten years? 0:13:22.5 NL: Got to the stage where they took the proceedings further and further, so that they kept getting more and more involved. And eventually, they decided to make this a child protection issue. Up until that point, child social services were involved, but then, about a year before the court proceedings, something like that, before the pandemic. What happened then was that they gave these children a set amount of time to lose weight, and they enforced it. They bought them Fitbits so that they could monitor how much exercise they were doing, they bought them gym subscriptions, they sent them to Weight Watchers. [chuckle] 0:13:55.9 Louise: Fantastic, 'cause we know that works. 0:13:58.4 NL: We know that works. And of course, as you said, it was during a lockdown. So, Corona hits and there was lockdown, there was schools were closed, and for us, it was really quite a difficult time. And in spite of all of that... 0:14:13.0 Louise: I can't believe it. 0:14:14.9 NL: When the children failed to lose weight, the judge decided that it was in their best interest to remove them from their loving parents. And dad, from what I can tell from the court transcripts. I don't know if you noticed this as well. I think mom was trying very hard to be as compliant as possible. 0:14:26.9 Louise: She was, and even she lost weight, the poor thing. 0:14:30.0 NL: Yes, but I think dad almost seems to be trying to protect them, saying, "This is ridiculous. You can't take my kids away just because of their weight," and I... 0:14:38.1 Louise: Seems like he was in denial, which I fully understand. 0:14:41.1 NL: I would be too, I would be outraged. And it sounds like this young girl... I don't know much about the boy, but from what I can see from the transcripts, this young girl really became quite sad and low and depressed, and obviously, shockingly enough, her self esteem has been completely ruined by this process. 0:14:58.7 Louise: I know, I know. I really saw that in the transcript. This poor little girl was so depressed and getting bullied. And in the transcript, the way that that is attributed to her size and not what abuse they're inflicting on this family. 0:15:13.3 NL: Right. Yeah, really quite shocking. And then of course, the other thing you probably noticed from the transcript is there is no expert testimony at this court proceeding. None whatsoever. There is no psychologist. 0:15:24.0 Louise: Actually, there was. 0:15:25.8 NL: There was... 0:15:26.6 Louise: Dr... What's her name? 0:15:29.4 NL: Yes. You're right, there was a psychologist, and you're absolutely right. She was not an eating disorder specialist or a... She was just a psychologist. 0:15:37.3 Louise: She's a clinical psychologist. Dr. Van Rooyen, and she's based in Kent, and she does court reports for child abuse. Yes, and I can see her weight stigma in there. She's on the one hand acknowledging that the kids don't wanna go, that the kids will suffer mentally from being removed, but you can also see her unexamined weight stigma. And that you're right, where the hell are the weight scientists saying, "Actually, it's biologically impossible to lose weight and maintain it"? Because in the transcripts, they do mention that the kids have lost weight, failed to keep it off. 0:16:16.5 NL: Exactly, exactly. And it's just shocking to me that there would be such a lack of understanding and no desire to actually establish the science or the facts behind this. If I was a judge... I'm not a judge, I'm not an expert, but if I was a judge and I was making a decision to remove a child from a home based purely on the child's inability to lose weight, I would want to find out if it was possible that this child simply couldn't lose weight on their own. I would want to consult experts. I would want to find out if there was a genetic condition. I'm not saying she has a genetic condition. You and I know that she doesn't need to have a genetic condition in order to struggle to lose weight, that actually, the psychology behind this explains it. But even if you've not got to that stage yet, there was no doctors, there was no dietitians, there was no... No one was consulted. It was a psychologist who had no understanding of these specific issues, who, as you said, was clearly biased. There was social workers who said, "We've done everything we can because we've given them a Fitbit and we've sent them to Weight Watchers and sent them to the gym, but they refuse to comply." 0:17:24.9 Louise: I know. It's shocking. 0:17:28.4 NL: Yeah, it strikes me that we live in a world where you just can get away with this. It's just universally accepted that being fat is bad, and it's also your fault, your responsibility. The blame lies solely on the individual, even if that individual is a three-year-old child, it is. And if it's not the child, then of course, it's the parent. The parent has done something wrong. 0:17:52.1 Louise: Specifically the mother, okay. 0:17:53.5 NL: The mother, yeah. 0:17:54.4 Louise: The one with the penis, okay, let's not talk about him, 'cause that was absent. It was the mom. And the only possibility that was examined in this is that it's mom's fault for not being compliant, like you said. That's the only thing. Nothing else like the whole method is a stink-fest of ineffective bullshit. 0:18:13.5 NL: And there's the one point in the transcript when they talk about the fact that she had ice cream or chips or something in the house. 0:18:19.7 Louise: That's Ms. Keeley, their social worker, who went in and judged them. And did you notice that she took different scales in during that last visit? That last visit that was gonna determine whether or not they'd be removed, she took different scales in and weighed them. And they say, "Look, we acknowledge that that could've screwed up the results, but we're just gonna push on with removal." 0:18:43.0 NL: It was their agenda. 0:18:45.0 Louise: It was. It's terrifying, and it's long-term foster care for this poor little girl who doesn't wanna leave her mom. I'm so fired up about this, because the impact of removing yourself from your home because of your body, how on earth is this poor kid gonna be okay? 0:19:05.7 NL: This is my worry. How is mom going to be okay? How is that boy going to be okay? And how is that young, impressionable girl... My oldest son is a little bit older, and my younger son is a little bit younger, she's literally in between the two, and I'm watching what the last two years or last year and a half has done to them in terms of their mental and emotional well-being. And to me, even without social services' involvement, my children's mental health has deteriorated massively. And I cannot even begin to comprehend what this poor girl is going through. I cannot imagine how traumatized she is, and I cannot see how is she ever going to get over this, because she's been going through it since she was three, and it's not at the hand of a parent, it's at the hand of a social worker, it is the social worker's negligence. And what's interesting is a lot of social workers and people who work in social services have reached out to me since I first talked about this case, and they have all said the same thing, the amount of weight stigma in social services in the UK is shocking. It is shocking. It is perfectly acceptable to call parents abusers just because their children are overweight. 0:20:21.8 Louise: Jesus. 0:20:22.2 NL: No other reason, just your child is over the limit, is on the 90th percentile or whatever it is, your child is overweight and therefore you as a mother, usually as you said, it's a mother, are an abusive mother, because you've brought your child up in a loving environment but they failed to look the way that you want them to look, that's it. 0:20:41.0 Louise: Okay. So, that's me, right. My eldest is in the 99th percentile, so I am an abuser, I'm a child abuser. 0:20:47.3 NL: Child abuser, I can't believe I'm probably talking to one. 0:20:49.3 Louise: I know. [laughter] 0:20:49.9 NL: I can't believe I'm probably talking to one. And you know, the irony, my son's been really poorly recently and he's been up in... I mean we've spent most of our life in the hospital the last few weeks, and... 0:20:58.1 Louise: Oh dear. 0:20:58.3 NL: Went to see a paediatrician and they did the height and weight, and he is on the 98th percentile, my son has a 28-inch waist. He is a skeleton at the moment because he's been really ill, but he is mixed race, and we all know that the BMI is not particularly... 0:21:12.9 Louise: It's racist. 0:21:13.2 NL: Useful anyway, but it's massively racist, so my children have always been, if you weigh them, a lot heavier than they look, because I mean he's... There isn't an ounce of fat on him. My point is that BMI is complete utter bullshit and it doesn't deserve to exist. The fact that we've been using up until now is shameful and as a doctor, I cannot accept that we use this as a measure of whether a person is healthy and certainly as a measure of whether a child is healthy, because until recently, we were told you don't do BMIs on anyone under the age of 16 but that's just gone out the window now, everyone... 0:21:48.5 Louise: I know. 0:21:48.6 NL: Gets a BMI, even a six-year-old. 0:21:50.1 Louise: You get a BMI, you get a BMI. [laughter] I think it's not supposed to be used for an individual anything, it's a population level statistic. 0:22:01.1 NL: And a pretty crappy one at that. 0:22:02.3 Louise: It's a shitty one. 0:22:02.6 NL: It is like you said. 0:22:04.2 Louise: Yes. 0:22:04.6 NL: It's based on what European men, it's not particularly useful for men, it's not particularly useful for any other race, it's just useful perhaps. Even when it came out, like even when... What's his face? I forget his name right now, Ancel Keys. When he did that study that first look, brought in the BMI into our medical world as it were, yeah, even he said at the time it was alright. It's not the best, it's not the worst, it will do. It's the best out of the bunch. I mean he didn't even have much enthusiasm at the time. He said specifically it's not meant to be used as an individual assessment. And even the guy who kind of didn't invent it, but he sort of invented it as a measure of "obesity" and yet... And even he didn't have much good stuff to say about it. If he was selling the latest iPhone, Apple would have a lot to say about that. [laughter] I just... This fact that we've become obsessed and we know why this is. We know this is because of the diet industry, we know this is because of people trying to make money out of us and succeeding, very successful at making money out of us. 0:23:02.9 Louise: It's actually terrifying how successful this is because when I read this transcript, I've been doing a lot of work against the Novo Nordisk impact and how our modern oh, narrative has been essentially created by the pharmaceutical company that's producing all of the weight loss drugs, they have 80% of the weight loss drugs market and they've shamelessly said in their marketing that this is their drive to increase... That it's to create a sense of urgency for the medical management of obesity. And here it is, this is where it bleeds, because they're telling us this bullshit that it's going to reduce stigma. No, it's going to create eugenics. This is hideous what's happening here and I can't believe that the world didn't stop and that the front page of newspapers aren't saying like get fucked, like get these kids back. There's no outrage. 0:24:04.2 NL: No, there is none whatsoever. We got just over 2,000 people supporting the petition and as grateful as I am for that, that's just what the fuck, that's 2,000 people who live in a country of 68 million and only 2,000 people had something to say about this and, we... That's how much we hate fat kids and how much we hate fat people. We just don't see them as worthy and nobody wants to defend this young girl, nobody sort of feels sorry for her and I just... I can't get my head around this whole thing. It's funny because I didn't really know about it, a year ago I was completely clueless. It's all happened rather quickly for me that I've begun to understand Haze and begun to understand who Novo Nordisk was and what they are doing and what Semaglutide actually is and how it's going to completely change the world as we know it. 0:24:56.5 NL: I think this particular drug is going to become part of popular culture in the same way that Viagra is, we use that word now in novels and in movies. It's so popular and so understood, nobody talks about... I don't know, give me a name of any drug, like some blood pressure medication, they don't talk about it in the same way they talk about Viagra. But Semaglutide is going to be that next drug because they have tapped into this incredibly large population of people who are desperate to lose weight and they've got this medication that was originally used to treat diabetes, just like Viagra was originally used to treat blood pressure and have said, "Wow, look at this amazing side effect. It makes people lose weight as long as you run it. Let's market this." And the FDA approved it. I mean, no... 0:25:45.1 Louise: I know. 0:25:45.8 NL: No thought as to whether or not this drug is gonna have a massive impact on people in their insulin resistance and whether they're gonna develop diabetes down the line. I don't think they care. I don't think anybody actually cares. I think it's just that everybody is happy, woo-hoo, another way to treat fat people and make a good deal of money out of it. 0:26:03.9 Louise: Right? So, Semaglutide is... It's the latest weight loss drug to be approved by the FDA from Novo Nordisk and it is like the Mark II. So, they were selling Saxenda, Saxenda's here in Australia, they're pushing it out and this Semaglutide is like the Mark II, like I think of Saxenda as like Jan Brady, and Semaglutide is like Marcia. [laughter] 0:26:29.3 Louise: 'Cause it's like, "Oh my God, look at Semaglutide. Look at this amazing one year trial." [laughter] Marcia, Marcia, Marcia, like oh my God, we can make so much weight loss happen from this intervention. Why? Why do we need all of this weight loss, all these percentages? And, "Oh, we can lose 15% and 20%," and we don't need to for health, but okay. 0:26:53.3 NL: Yeah. The other thing that we have to remember about it, I don't think it's actually that much better. I've used all of these drugs in treating diabetes. So many years, I used these drugs. The beauty of it, of course, is that it's a tablet, and Saxenda is an injection. I'm assuming you have the injectable form, yeah? 0:27:09.9 Louise: That's right. You have to inject, and it's very expensive. 0:27:14.0 NL: It's extremely expensive, as will... Marcia Brady will be more expensive, I'm sure. 0:27:18.6 Louise: So high maintenance. [chuckle] 0:27:20.2 NL: Absolutely, but she is easier to administer. A lot of people don't like the idea of injecting themselves, but taking a tablet is dead easy. So, that's what makes this special, as it were, because it's the only one of that whole family that is oral, as opposed to injectable. 0:27:37.6 Louise: Well, that's interesting, because the paper with all of the big, shiny weight loss was injectable, it wasn't tablet. 0:27:43.7 NL: Oh, really? Oh, but they're marketing it as the oral version, definitely. That's the one that's got approved. It's brand name is... 0:27:51.3 Louise: Wegovy. 0:27:52.2 NL: Oh no, well, I have a completely different brand name. Is it different, maybe, in Australia? 0:27:57.1 Louise: Well, this is in America. In Australia, they haven't cornered us yet. I'm sure that they're trying to do it, but it was the FDA approval for Wegovy, [0:28:05.4] ____. 0:28:05.9 NL: So, they obviously changed the name. That's not the same one we use in diabetes. Clearly, they've had to revamp it a bit. Irrespective of oral, injectable, whatever, I think that this is going to... Novo Nordisk is sitting on a gold mine, and they know it. And it's going to change our lives, I think, because bariatric surgery is quite a big thing, and it's something that often people will say, "I'm not keen on doing." And the uptake is quite low still, and so, in bariatric... 0:28:35.2 Louise: In the UK, not here. 0:28:36.2 NL: Yeah, [chuckle] yeah, but bariatric surgeons are probably very afraid right now, because there's drugs coming along and taking all of their business away from them. 0:28:43.5 Louise: Actually, you know what Novo were doing? They're partnering with the bariatric surgeons. 0:28:46.2 NL: Of course they are. 0:28:46.9 Louise: And they're saying to them, "Hey, let's use your power and kudos, and our drugs can help your patients when they start to regain." 0:28:56.4 NL: Oh my gosh. 0:28:58.0 Louise: It's literally gateway drug. Once you start using a drug to reduce your weight, you have medicalized your weight, and it's a small upsell from there. So, I think this is all part of a giant marketing genius that is Novo Nordisk. But I'm interested to hear your concerns, 'cause I'm concerned as well with the use of diabetes drugs as weight loss medications, and I read about it being that they're hoping that people will take this drug like we take statins. So, everyone will take it preventatively for the rest of their lives. What's the long-term impact, do you think, of taking a double dose of a diabetes drug when you don't have diabetes? 0:29:43.5 NL: Well, first of all, they don't know. Nobody knows, because they've only done a study for a year, and just how many diet drugs have we put out there into the universe since the 1970s, and then taken them back a few years later, 'cause we've gone, "Oh, this kills"? If you've got diabetes and you take this drug because you've got insulin resistance and this drug helps you to combat your insulin resistance in the way that it works, you've already got diabetes. And so, there is no risk of you developing diabetes, and this drug does work, and so, I have no issue with the GLP-1 analogs in their use in diabetes. I think all the diabetes drugs are important, and I'm not an expert. But you've really got to ask yourself, if you take a healthy body and you act on a system within the pancreas and within the body, in a healthy, essentially, healthy body, healthy pancreas, you've got to ask yourself if it's going to worsen insulin resistance over time. It's actually going to lead to increased cases of diabetes. Now, they say it won't, but... 0:30:47.4 Louise: How do they know that? 'Cause I've read a study by Novo, sponsored, in rats, that showed that it did lead to insulin resistance long-term. 0:30:57.6 NL: Right, I think common sense, because we understand that the way that the body works, just common sense. The way the body works suggests to me that over long periods of time, taking this medication in a healthy person is going to lead to increased insulin resistance, which in turn will lead to diabetes. That is what common sense dictates. But of course, as you said, we don't know. We don't have a study. Nobody has looked into this. And it makes me sad that we are using a drug to treat a condition that isn't a condition. 0:31:30.2 Louise: I know, yeah. [chuckle] 0:31:32.4 NL: And inadvertently, potentially giving people a whole... 0:31:36.0 Louise: Creating a condition. 0:31:36.6 NL: Creating an actual medical condition, which we all know to be life-threatening if untreated. And so, I cannot fathom why... Well, I can, I understand. It's for financial reasons only, but I can't understand why there are doctors out there that want to prescribe this. This is the issue that I have. I'm a doctor, and I can't speak on behalf of drug companies or politicians or anyone else, but I can speak to what doctors are supposed to be doing, and we have a very strong code of conduct that we have to abide by. We have ethical and moral principles and legal obligations to our patients. And so, doing no harm and doing what is in your patients' best interest, and practising fairly and without discrimination, and giving people... Allowing them to make an informed choice where they are aware of the risks and the side effects and all the different treatment options. 0:32:28.0 NL: When it comes to being fat, again, it seems to have gone out the window. None of these things are happening. We wouldn't dream of addressing other issues this way, it's just fatness, because it's just so commonly, widely accepted that fatness is bad and you've got to do whatever you can to get rid of it. I've had someone tell me today that they are pregnant with their first child and they had their first conversation with the anesthetist, who told them they had to do whatever they could to lose weight before they had their baby. This is a pregnant woman. 0:32:58.1 Louise: Whatever they had to do? 0:33:00.1 NL: Whatever they had to do, and she said, "What do you want me to do, buy drugs off the streets?" And the anesthetist said... Wait for it. The anesthetist said, "It would be safer for you to use a Class A drugs than it would for you to be fat in pregnancy". The anesthetist said that to this woman. She told me this and I just went "Please just... Can you just report him?" 0:33:21.7 Louise: Shut the front door, Jesus Christ! 0:33:24.6 NL: Can you imagine? First of all, that's not true. Second of all, he is saying that it is better to be a drug addict than to be a fat person. This is no judgment on drug addicts, but you do not encourage your patients to use Class A drugs to lose weight. That's stupid. Imagine if he'd said that about anything else, but in his... And it was a man, in his world, for whatever reason, his ethics just abandons them all in favor of fat shaming a woman. 0:33:52.4 Louise: This is where we're at with, it's self examined. It's like there's a massive black hole of stigma just operating unchallenged effortlessly and actually growing, thanks to this massive marketing department, Novo. It's terrify... That poor lady, I'm so glad she's found you and I hope she's not gonna go down the Class A drug route. [laughter] 0:34:19.3 NL: She's definitely not, but she was quite traumatized. She's on a Facebook group that I started and it's great because it's 500 people who are just so supportive of each other and it was within a few minutes 50 comments going "What a load of crap, I can't believe this," "You're great, this doctor is terrible". But it just stuck to me that one of my colleagues would dare, would have the audacity to do something as negligent as that. And I'm gonna call it what it is. That's negligence. But I'm seeing it all the time. I'm seeing it in healthcare, I'm seeing it in Social Services, I'm seeing it in schools, I'm seeing it in the workplace, I'm seeing it everywhere. You cannot escape it. And as a fat person, who was in the morbidly, super fat, super obese stage where she's just basically needs to just be put down like a... 0:35:16.3 Louise: Oh my gosh, it's awful. 0:35:18.5 NL: And as that person, I hear all of these things and I just think "I'm actually a fairly useful member of society, I've actually never been ill, never required any medication, managed to give birth to my children, actually to be fair, they had to come out my zip as opposed to through the tunnel." But that wasn't because I was fat, that was because they were awkward. But this anesthetist telling this woman that she's too fat to have a baby. I was just like "But I am the same weight. I am the same BMI as you". And I had three and I had no problems with my anesthetics. In fact after my third cesarean section, I walked out the hospital 24 hours later, happy as Larry, didn't have any problems. And I know people who were very, very thin that had a massive problems after their cesarean. So there's not even evidence to show how dangerous it is to have a BMI over 35 and still... And then caught when it comes to an anesthetic. This isn't even evidence-based, it's just superstition at this point. 0:36:12.8 Louise: It's a biased based and the guidelines here in Australia, so I think above 35 women are advised to have a cesarean because it's too dangerous. And women are not allowed to give birth in rural hospitals, they have to fly to major cities. So imagine all of... And don't even get me started on bias in medical care for women. It's everywhere, like you said, and it's unexamined and all of this discrimination in the name of, apparently, healthcare. It's scary. 0:36:43.9 NL: It really is. Gosh, you've got me fired up, it's almost 1:00 in the morning and I'm fired up. I'm never gonna get to sleep now. [laughter] 0:36:51.7 Louise: Okay, I don't wanna tell you this, but I will. 'Cause we're talking about how on earth is this possible, like why aren't there any medical experts involved to talk about this from a scientific basis, and I'm worried that even if they did have medical people in the court, they wouldn't have actually stuck up for the kid. I found this JAMA article from 2011. It's a commentary on whether or not large kids should be removed from their families, and it was supportive of that. 0:37:18.0 NL: Oh gosh. Of course it was. 0:37:22.0 Louise: And in response to that commentary, the medpage, which is a medical website, a newsletter kind of thing. They did a poll of health professionals asking should larger kids removed from their families, and 54% said yes. 0:37:40.7 NL: Of course. 0:37:41.3 Louise: I know. Isn't that dreadful? One comment on that said "It seems to me the children in a home where they have become morbidly obese might be suffering many other kinds of abuse as well, viewing in the size of a child. 'Cause we've all gotten bigger since the '80s. We're a larger population and viewing that as abuse and as a fault of parenting. Unbelievable. I also had a little dig around Australia, 'cause it's not isolated in the UK, there's so many more cases. 0:38:16.9 NL: They have. Yeah. 0:38:17.8 Louise: And I think actually in the UK, it might be a lot more common than in Australia. 0:38:22.1 NL: Yeah, I can believe that. 0:38:23.5 Louise: But it did happen here in 2012, there was some report of two children being removed from their families because of the size of the kids. And the media coverage was actually quite dreadful. I'll put in the show notes, this article, and the title is "Victorian authorities remove obese children, removed from their parents". So even the title is wrong, couldn't even get their semantics right. There's a picture, you can imagine what picture would accompany... 0:38:55.2 NL: Well of course it can't be of the actual children, because I think it leads to lawsuit. I'm assuming it's a belly. Is there a belly? Is there a fat person in it or a fat child eating a burger? 0:39:06.2 Louise: Yes. [laughter] 0:39:07.1 NL: Sorry, it's either the belly or the fat person eating the burger. So, a fat child eating the burger, sorry. 0:39:11.9 Louise: Helpfully, to help the visually impaired, the picture had caption and the caption reads "Overweight brother and sister sitting side by side on a sofa eating takeaway food and watching the TV." So not at all stereotyped, very sensitive, nuanced article this one. And then we hear from Professor John Dixon, who is a big part of obesity Inc here in Australia. He told the ABC that "Sometimes taking children away from their parents is the best option." In the same article, he also admits "There's no services available that can actually help kids lose weight", and he says that it's not the parents fault. Helpfully, this article also states that "Obesity is the leading cause of illness and death in Australia." [laughter] 0:39:58.7 NL: I love it when I hear that. How have they figured that out? What do they do to decide that? Where does this... 0:40:08.4 Louise: They don't have to provide any actual evidence. 0:40:10.5 NL: Right. They just say it. 0:40:12.1 Louise: Got it. 0:40:13.0 NL: Just say it. 0:40:14.4 Louise: Diet. And I checked just to make sure, 'cause in case I've missed anything. 0:40:18.4 NL: Yeah. 0:40:19.6 Louise: The top five causes of death in Australia in 2019; heart disease, number two dementia, number three stroke, number four malignant neoplasm of trachea bronchus and lung. 0:40:30.4 NL: Lung cancer. 0:40:30.9 Louise: Lung cancer. 0:40:31.5 NL: That's lung cancer. 0:40:32.3 Louise: And number five chronic lower respiratory disease. 0:40:38.4 NL: So translation. Heart attacks, dementia... In the UK it's actually dementia first, then heart attacks. So dementia, heart attacks, stroke, same thing in the UK, and then lung cancer and COPD. Both of those are smoking-related illnesses. And I can say quite safely that they are smoking-related illness because the chance of developing lung cancer or COPD if you haven't smoked is minuscule. So what the people are doing is they're saying, "Well, we can attribute all of these heart attacks and strokes and dementia to "obesity". And the way we can do that is we just look at all these people that have died, and if they are fat we'll just assume it's their fat that caused their heart disease. 0:41:20.0 NL: To make it very clear to everybody that is listening, if you have a BMI of 40, we can calculate your risk of developing a heart attack or a stroke over the next 10 years using a very sophisticated calculator actually, it's been around for some time. It's what we use in the UK. I'm assuming Australia has a similar one, don't know what it's called there. In the UK it's called a QRISK. So I've done this. I have calculated. I have found a woman, I called her Jane. I gave her a set of blood pressure and cholesterol, and I filled in a template. And then I gave her a BMI of 20. And then I gave her a BMI of 40. And I calculated the difference in her risk. I calculated the difference in her risk, and the difference in her risk was exactly 3%. The difference in her risk if she was a smoker was 50%. She was 50% more likely to have a heart attack if she was a smoker, but only 3% more likely to have a heart attack if she had a BMI of 40 instead of a BMI of 25. 0:42:15.0 NL: To put it into perspective, she was significantly more likely to have a heart attack if she was a migraine sufferer, if she had a mental health condition, if she had lupus or rheumatoid arthritis, if she was Asian, if she was a man, and all of those things dramatically increased her risk more than having a BMI of 40. So it's just very important that doctors will admit, 'cause it's about admitting to a simple fact, this calculator we use to predict people's risks. So if we know that weight only has a 3-4% impact on our cardiovascular risk as opposed to smoking which has a 50% impact, as opposed to aging which is why most people die because they get old and let's face it everybody dies some time. 0:43:04.0 NL: So what's happening is the... Whoever they are, are taking all these deaths from heart disease which was likely caused by the person aging, by the person being male or just being old and being over the age of 75, your risk of heart disease goes up massively irrespective of your weight. So instead of saying, "Well, it's just heart disease", they've gone, "Well, it's heart disease in a fat person and therefore it was the fatness that caused the heart disease." And that is offensive to me to the point that now, I have heard... And this is awful in this year, our patients that are dying of COVID, if they die of COVID in the UK, it's actually quite heart breaking, it's happened to someone that I was close to. If they die of COVID in the UK, and they happen to be fat, the doctor writes "obesity" on their death certificate... 0:43:51.8 Louise: No way. 0:43:52.4 NL: As a cause of death. They died of COVID. 0:43:55.2 Louise: What? 0:43:55.5 NL: They died of COVID. That's what they died of. They died of this terrible virus that is killing people in their droves but people are under the misguided impression that being fat predisposes you to death from COVID, which is not true. It's not true. That is a complete gross misrepresentation of the facts. But we've now got doctors placing that on a person's death certificate. Can you imagine how that family feels? Can you imagine what it feels like to get this death certificate saying, "Your family member is dead from COVID but it's their fault 'cause they were obese." And how can the doctor know? How could the doctor know that? 0:44:34.2 Louise: How can they do that? 0:44:35.6 NL: How can they do that? And this is my point, this doctor that's turning around and saying it's safer for children to be removed from their loving home. Obviously, this person has no idea of the psychological consequences of being removed from your family. But it's safer for that person to be removed from their home than to remain in their home and remain fat. What will you achieve? Is this person going to lose weight? No. I can tell you what this person is going to do. This person is going to develop... 0:44:58.9 Louise: They even say that. They even say that in the transcripts. We don't think that they'll get any more supervision. 0:45:03.1 NL: Yeah. In fact, we're gonna get less supervision because it's not a loving parent. You're going to develop, most likely an eating disorder. You're going to develop serious psychological scars. That trauma is going to lead to mental health problems down the line. And chances are you're just gonna get bigger. You're not gonna get smaller because we know that 95% of people who lose weight gain it all back again. We know that two-thirds of them end up heavier. We know that the more you diet, the heavier you're gonna get. And that actually, this has been shown to be like a dose-response thing in some studies. So the more diets you go on, the higher your weight is going to get. If you don't diet ever in your life, chances are you're not gonna have as many weight problems later on down the line. So, as you're saying, we are living in a society that's got fatter. And there's lots of reasons for that. It's got to do with the food that we're eating now. That we're all eating. That we're all consuming. 0:45:55.1 Louise: Food supply. Only some of us will express from there the epigenetic glory of becoming higher weight. 0:46:02.0 NL: Right. And that's the thing, isn't it? Genetics, hormones, trauma, medications. How many people do I know that are on psychiatric medications and have gained weight as a result, Clozapine or... It's just what's gonna happen. You name it. Being female, having babies, so many things will determine your weight. 0:46:21.0 Louise: Getting older. We're allowed to get... We're supposed to get bigger as we get older. 0:46:25.1 NL: And then you know that actually, there are so many studies nowadays, so many studies that we've labeled it now that show that actually being fat can be beneficial to you. There's studies that show that if you end up in ICU with sepsis, you're far more likely to survive if you're fat. If you've got a BMI over 30, you're more likely to survive. There's studies that show that if you have chronic kidney disease and you're on dialysis, the chances of you surviving more long-term are significantly higher if you're fat. Heart failure, kidney disease, ICU admissions, in fact, even after a heart attack, there's evidence to show that you're more likely to survive if you're fat. And they call this the obesity paradox. We have to call it a paradox because we cannot, for one moment, admit that actually there's a possibility that being fat isn't all that bad for you in the first place and we got it wrong. Rather than admit that we got it wrong, we've labeled a paradox because we have to be right here, we have to... 0:47:18.0 Louise: Yeah, it's like how totally bad and wrong, except in certain rare, weird conditions, as opposed to, "Let's just drop the judgment and look at all of this much less hysterically." 0:47:29.5 NL: Yeah. And studies have shown that putting children on a diet, talking about weight, weight-shaming them, weighing them, any of these things, have been linked to and have been demonstrated to cause disordered eating and be a serious risk for direct factor for weight gain. And that, in my opinion, is the important thing to remember in this particular case, because as I said, social services start in weight-shaming, judging, and talking about weight when these children were three and six, and they did that for 10 years. And in doing so, they are responsible for the fact that these children went on to gain weight, because that's what the evidence shows. And there's no question about this evidence, there's multiple papers to back it up. 0:48:14.1 NL: There's an article published in Germany in 2016, there was an article published last year by the University of Cambridge, and even the American Academy of Pediatrics agrees that talking about weight, putting children on a diet, in fact, even a parent going on a diet is enough to damage that child and increase their risk of developing disordered eating patterns and weight gain. 0:48:37.9 NL: And so, as far as I'm concerned, that to me, is evidence enough to say that it's actually social services that should be in front of a judge, not these children, but it's the social workers that should be held to account. And I have written... And this is something that is very important to say. I wrote to the council, the local authority, and I've written a very long letter, I've published it on my website. You can read it anytime, anyone can read it. And I wrote to them and I said, "This is the evidence. Here are all the links. As far as I'm concerned, you guys got it terribly wrong and you have demonstrated that there is a high degree of weight bias that is actually causing damage to children. I am prepared to come and train you for free and teach all of your social workers all about weight bias, weight stigma, and to basically dispel the myths that obviously are pervading your social work department." And they ignored me. I wrote to politicians in the area. They ignored me. I wrote to a counselor who's a member of my political party, who just claimed, "Yeah, I'll look into it for you." Never heard from her again. Yeah, nobody cares. 0:49:44.0 Louise: It's just such a lack of concern. 0:49:45.7 NL: I didn't even do it in a critical way. I had to do it in a kind of, "I will help you. Let me help you. I'm offering my services for free. I do charge, normally, but I'll do it for free for you guys." No one is interested. Nobody wants to know. And that makes me really sad, that they weren't even willing to hear me out. 0:50:03.0 Louise: I can't believe they didn't actually even answer you. 0:50:06.5 NL: Didn't answer me, didn't respond to any of my messages, none of the counselors, none of the... Nobody has responded, and I've tried repeatedly. 0:50:14.4 Louise: So, this is in West Sussex, yeah? 0:50:16.7 NL: That's right, West Sussex, that's right. 0:50:18.0 Louise: You know what's weird about that? I've actually attended a wedding at that council, that my ex-father-in-law got married there. And when I saw the picture there, I'm like, "Oh my God, I've actually been there." So, I had a poke, and I don't know if you know this, but hopefully, in the future, when those children, C and D, finally decide to sue the council, that they can use this as evidence. There is a report from a... It's called a commissioner's progress report on children services in West Sussex from October 2020, which details how awful the service has been for the past few years, and huge issues with how they're running things. And it says, "Quite fragile and unstable services in West Sussex." So, this family who've had their kids removed were being cared for by a service with massive problems, are being referred to programs that don't work, and that there's a massive miscarriage of justice. 0:51:17.3 NL: And I'm glad you're talking about it, and I'm glad we're talking about it. And I wish that we had the platform to talk about it more vocally. I'd want to be able to reach out to these... To see patients... They're not patients, child C and D. I want to be able to reach out to mum as well, and say... 0:51:36.3 Louise: I just wanna land in Sussex and just walk around the street saying, "Where are you? I wanna help." 0:51:40.2 NL: "Where are you? And let me hug you." And I'm very interest to know, I'd be very interested to know the ethnic origin of these young people. 0:51:48.9 Louise: And the socio-economic status of these people. 0:51:50.2 NL: Socio-economic status, 100%. I would very much like to know that. That would make a huge... I think that I can guess, I'm not going to speculate, but I had a very lovely young woman contact me from a... She was now an adult, but she had experienced this as a child. She had been removed from her home and was now an adult, and she had been in foster care, in social services, for a few years, and had obviously contact with her mum but hadn't been reunited with her mum ever. So it wasn't like it was for a time and then she went back. And we talked about this. She was in a London borough, I shall not name the borough, but I know for a fact that her race would've played a role in this, because she was half-Black, half-Turkish. 0:52:39.2 NL: And there're a few things in that court transcript that caught my attention. I don't know if you noticed there was a mention of the smell from the kitchen, and they didn't specifically said, you know, mould, or you know that there was mould in the kitchen, or there was something in the kitchen that was rotting, something like that, 'cause I think they would have specified. It was just a smell. And that made me wonder, is this to do with just the fact that maybe this family lived in poor housing or was it the type of food that they were cooking for their children? Is there a language issue, is there a cultural issue. What exactly is going on? 'cause we don't know that from the court transcript, so that's another thing that... Another piece of the puzzle that I would really be interested in. Is this a white wealthy family? Probably not. I don't think they are. 0:53:27.2 Louise: Yeah it didn't struck me that way either. Yeah, yeah this is potentially marginalization and racism happening that... 0:53:35.1 NL: Yeah. 0:53:35.9 Louise: And here in Australia, we've got an awful history of how we treated First Nations people and we removed indigenous kids from their families, on the basis of like we know better, and I just... Yeah honestly, elements of that here, like we know better. 0:53:51.5 NL: Yes. Right, this is it. We know better than you have to parent your child. I am have always been a big believer of not restricting my children's feed in any way. I was restricted, and I made the decision when we had the kids that there would just be no restriction at all. I have like been one of those parents that had just been like, that's the draw with all the sweet treats in it. They're not called treats, they're just sweets and chocolate and candy, there it is. It's within reachable distance. Help yourself whenever you want, ice pops in the freezer, there's no like you have to eat that to get your pudding. None of that. 0:54:27.6 NL: My kids have just been able to eat whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted, I never restricted anything, I wanted them to be intuitive eaters. And of course they are, and what amazes me is now my teenage son, when we were on lockdown, and he was like homeschooled, he would come downstairs, make himself a breakfast, and there was like three portions of fruit and veg on his plate, and not because someone told him that he had to, but just because he knew it was good for him and he knew it was healthy, there was like a selection, his plate was always multi-colored, he was drinking plenty of water. He would go and cook it, he cooked himself lunch, he knew that he can eat sweets and crisps and chocolate whenever he wanted to, and he didn't, he just didn't. Like it was there, that drawn, it gets emptied out because it's become a bit... But no, they don't take it, and sometimes they do, 'cause they fancy it, but most of the times they don't. And that is my decision as a parent, I believe that I have done what is in their best interest, I believe that I will prove over time that this has had a much better impact on their health, not restricting them. 0:55:26.4 Louise: Absolutely, Yeah. 0:55:27.6 NL: But the point is they're my children, and it was my damn choice, and even if my child is on the 98th percentile, it's still my damn choice, nobody gets to tell me how to parent my child. That is my child, I know what's best for them. And I believe that my children are going to prove the fact that this is a great way of parenting, and I know that actually most of their friends who had, were not allowed to eat the food that they wanted to eat used to come over to our house and just kind of like wide eyed. And they binge, they binge, you know, to the point that I have to restrict them and say I actually I don't think mom would like that if I gave that to you. 0:56:00.0 Louise: We know that that's what we do when we put kids in food deserts, we breed binge eating and food insecurity, and trying to teach our kids to have a relaxed and enjoyable relationship with food is what intuitive eating is all about. And without a side salad of fat phobia, we're not doing this relationship with food stuff in order to make sure you're thin, we're doing this to make sure that you feel really safe and secure in the world, and you know health is sometimes controllable and sometimes not, and this kind of mad obsession we have with controlling our food and the ability it will give us like everlasting life is weird. 0:56:39.0 NL: Yeah. 0:56:39.7 Louise: Yeah. Gosh, I'm so glad you're parenting those kids in that way and I've noticed the same thing with my kids. Like my kids, we are a family of intuitive eaters and it's just really relaxed, and there's variety, and they go through these little love affairs with foods, and it's really cute. [chuckle] And they're developing their palettes, and their size is not up to me. 0:57:05.8 NL: Yeah. 0:57:06.4 Louise: Yeah. 0:57:07.4 NL: Right. 0:57:08.1 Louise: It's up to me to help them thrive. 0:57:10.7 NL: That's right. And when people talk about health, I often hear people talking about health, and whenever they ask me that question, you know, surely you can agree that being fat is not good for your health, well, I'll always kinda go, "Oh Really? Could you just do me a favor here and define health?" Because I spend my whole life trying to define health, and I'm not sure that I've got there yet, but I can tell you without a doubt that this for me, in my personal experience as a doctor... And I've been a doctor for a long time now, and I see patients all the time, and I'm telling you that in my experience, the most important thing for your health is your mental and emotional well-being, that if you are not mentally and emotionally well, it doesn't matter how good your cholesterol is, it doesn't matter whether or not you've got diabetes, that is irrelevant, because if you're not mental and emotional... I'm not saying that 'cause you won't enjoy life, I mean, it has an impact on your physical health. And I spend most of my day dealing with either people who are depressed or anxious, and that's what they've presented with, or they've presented with symptoms that are being made worse or exacerbated by their mental and emotional pull, mental and emotional well-being. 0:58:19.1 NL: So giving my children the best start in life has always been about giving them a good mental and emotional well, start. It's about giving... It's not just teaching them resilience, but teaching them to love themselves, to be happy with who they are, to not feel judged or to not feel that they are anything other than the brilliant human beings that they are. And I believe that that is what's going to stand them in the greatest... In the greatest... I've lost my words now, but that's what's gonna get them through life, and that's why they're going to be healthy. And how much sugar they eat actually is quite irrelevant compared to the fact that they love themselves and their bodies, and they are great self-esteem, we all know that happiness is... Happiness is the most important thing when it comes to quality of life and happiness is the most important thing when it comes to length of life and illness, all of it. Happiness trumps everything else. 0:59:07.0 Louise: And to you know what that comes from. Happiness comes from a sense of belonging, belonging in our bodies, belonging in ourselves, belonging in the community, and all of this othering that's happening with the message that everyone belongs unless they're fat. That sucks ass and that needs to stop. This poor little kid when, in the transcript it mentioned that they found a suicide note... 0:59:29.9 NL: Yes. 0:59:30.1 Louise: And some pills. And she's fucking like 13. 0:59:34.8 NL: Yeah, and they called it a cry for help. 0:59:36.0 Louise: They called it cry for help 'cause of her body. 0:59:38.1 NL: Yeah. 0:59:38.4 Louise: They didn't recognize it since they've been sniffing around threatening to take her off her mom, and because she's being bullied for her size at school. This is like a calamitous failure to see the impact of weight stigma. 0:59:52.9 NL: She's been told that it's her fault that she's been taken away from her mum. They had told her that because she didn't succeed in losing weight, that she doesn't get to live with her mother anymore. Can you imagine? 1:00:02.4 Louise: So her mom. I can't even wrap my head around that. I can't. 1:00:07.2 NL: Well, she feels suicidal, I think I would too. I felt suicidal at her age and for a lot less. It's terrible, it's terrible. And I hope she's hanging on and I hope that... 1:00:14.6 Louise: I wanna tell her that she is awesome. 1:00:17.4 NL: Yes. 1:00:17.9 Louise: If she ever gets to listen to this. But I know the impact. So like when I was 11, my mom left and I remember how much it tore out my heart. 1:00:26.4 NL: Yeah. 1:00:26.9 Louise: You're 11... 1:00:27.5 NL: Yeah. 1:00:28.3 Louise: 12, 13. This is not the time to do this to kids, and this whole idea... The judge said something like, "Oh, you know, gosh, this is gonna be bad... " But here it is, I will read it to you. This is... She actually wrote a letter to the kids. 1:00:42.5 NL: Oh, gosh. 1:00:43.7 Louise: "I know you will feel that in making this o

63. Understanding The Enneagram with Dr. Sasha Shillcutt

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 30, 2021 28:48

Understanding your Enneagram type can help you identify your core values and how you can apply them to your life. Dr. Sasha Shillcutt joins me to talk about the Enneagram, describing the different types, and explaining how knowing how your type applies to your life can be revolutionary. What Your Enneagram Type Can Show You Understanding your strengths and weaknesses Understanding other people How you act and feel at your best How you act and feel when you're under stress Increase your self-awareness About Dr. Sasha Shillcutt Sasha K. Shillcutt, MD, MS, FASE is a tenured and endowed Professor and the Vice-Chair of Strategy in the Department of Anesthesiology at the University of Nebraska Medical Center (UNMC). Sasha is the CEO & Founder of Brave Enough, a well-published researcher in cardiac anesthesiology and gender equity, author, and international speaker. Sasha's greatest passion is empowering and encouraging others to achieve well-being in their professional and personal lives. She speaks frequently to executives and leaders on the topics of professional resilience and gender equity. Her TEDx talk titled Resilience: The Art of Failing Forward has been viewed by thousands of people. Her writing has been published in both the New England Journal of Medicine and JAMA. She leads conferences and retreats for professional women through her organization, Brave Enough. Her first book, Between Grit and Grace: How to be Feminine and Formidable, was released in February 2020. What is the Enneagram? In our final episode of the trilogy with Dr. Sasha Shillcutt, she gives us some really valuable insight into the power of the Enneagram. Ever heard of it before? The Enneagram test consists of 9 different personality types and wings that help you gain more self-awareness. Sasha breaks down briefly what each of the 9 Enneagram types' core values is. This knowledge can help you understand yourself and others more. It's not just a personality test - understanding and applying the deeper values can completely change your life. Sasha does warn against trying to type anyone other than yourself. The test pulls out your deepest thoughts and beliefs, many of which you won't know about someone else, to get to their core values. This is something so personal that only an individual can figure out for themselves. Learn About Your Enneagram Type We talk about our own Enneagram types. I'm a 6w7 and Sasha is an 8w7. Getting into our types really helps me understand myself more. It also helps me understand Sasha on a deeper level. It's fascinating that we both have the same 7 wing but it manifests differently in us. The wings represent what other Enneagram type you're influenced by. Hire Dr. Sasha Shillcutt to teach your team, group, or family to be more productive, more efficient, and have more joy - through the Enneagram! Your group will learn to work through conflict better together because they will gain a deeper understanding of themselves. Find out more about Understanding You: The Brave Enough Enneagram Course. Homework for Women Physicians Do you know your Enneagram number? If you do, how do you relate it to your life? Let me know in the comments on the episode page! In This Episode What the Enneagram test and number measures [1:45] How understanding your Enneagram type can change your life [3:45] Why you can only type yourself, not other people [5:00] How knowing your Enneagram can help you realize more about yourself [11:00] What the Enneagram wings represent [15:00] Quotes “I taught a group of scientists the Enneagram. It's so funny. Once you understand yourself, you also start to understand other people.” [4:53] “Enneagram 8s don't actually care about leading other people as much as leading ourselves and feeling independent. We have this huge fear of being controlled. Our biggest fear is that someone will be in control of us. Once I learned that about myself, I realized it explained so much of the conflict I've had in my life. I don't like being controlled but I don't need or want to control other people.” [10:33] “A 7 is The Entertainer. Their core motivation is to have every day be extraordinary, cool, and unique. Their biggest fear is emotional or physical pain. They will do whatever it takes to have fun and entertain and not have pain. Every day is a new day for a new experience.” [15:50] Resources Mentioned Find out more about Understanding You: The Brave Enough Enneagram Course. Find Out More About the Brave Enough Master Class 5th Annual Brave Enough CME Conference Between Grit and Grace: The Art of Being Feminine and Formidable by Dr. Sasha Shillcutt Find Dr. Sasha Shillcutt Online Follow Dr. Sasha Shillcutt on Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn Check out the full episode page here Find Life Coaching for Women Physicians Online Follow Dr. Ali Novitsky on Facebook | Instagram Subscribe to Life Coaching for Women Physicians on Apple Podcasts Podcast production by the team at Counterweight Creative Related Episodes Episode 61: Pulling Back to Move Forward with Dr. Sasha Shillcutt Episode 62: Creating Boundaries to Grow with Dr. Sasha Shillcutt Episode 60: Dr. Ashley Sandeen On Finding Herself Again

Thriving in Small Church Ministry - Karl Vaters

Hope Renewed

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 26, 2021 49:13

Serving the small (or ordinary) sized church is filled with challenges. So many of the resources and conferences for ministry leaders are geared toward larger-church contexts, and can leave those called to smaller congregations feeling under-served and less than confident about their ministry. In this episode of Hope Renewed we sit down with Karl Vaters, whose love for and experience in small church leadership have uniquely equipped him to be a voice of encouragement for pastors of congregations under 100. He shares some powerful insights about bringing God-sized faith to lesser-sized congregations, how health and numbers are NOT synonymous, and helpful thoughts about navigating these challenging times in the small church. Resources Mentioned: Find all of Karl's Resources at karlvaters.com

god serving thriving church ministry small church karl vaters hope renewed resources mentioned find

Home Baked Gluten Free Bread Recipes for the Holidays

Travel Gluten Free

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 11, 2020 46:36

Travel Gluten Free Podcast Episode 111 Home Baked Gluten Free Bread Recipes for the Holidays Jen Fitzpatrick of The Nomadic Fitzpatricks has traveled the world. One of her first long-term overseas journeys was playing violin in a study abroad program in Madrid. The matriarch of the house Jen lived at during her program in Madrid was very accommodating and created all gluten-free home-cooked meals for Jen in the weeks she stayed at her home. In 2019, Jen and her husband Dylan took unpaid sabbaticals from their work and set out as nomads to backpack across the world for six months - she being a Celiac. Her goal was to travel safely without getting sick. She decided to bring home recipes from around the world, which she put together in her new eBook Gluten Free Travel at Home. Jen loves to empower others to eat well and travel with Celiac disease. You can find guides, tips and gluten-free recipes on her website. Definitely purchase her two new ebooks: Bread Recipes from Around the World and Gluten Free Travel at Home for amazing, delicious, kitchen-tested gluten-free goodness you can create in your own home. Listen in to find out holiday gluten-free baking tips, what gluten-free flour mixes are best and how Jen came up with the recipes for her gluten-free cookbooks. Learn why she loved visiting Madrid, how she ate without getting sick when traveling the world and how she became a classical violinist. The Guide to Traveling Gluten Free Are you anxious about traveling with Celiacs Disease? Does the thought of getting sick on vacation worry you to no end? Unsure of what travel options are safe and how to choose a safe restaurant away from home for you and your children? The Guide to Traveling Gluten Free will walk you through the process of planning and enjoying your next gluten-free travel adventure! Take the guesswork out of how to travel, where to go, and how to eat safely when you follow the information in my guide. Whether you are celiacs or gluten intolerant, my guide will give you handy information to delight in your next vacation experience! Learn how to take a trip safely, what questions to ask when you are at a restaurant and which online tools and apps to utilize to find safe, dedicated gluten-free restaurants and food options. Find out what stores to shop at to purchase gluten-free food, determine if a restaurant is gluten-free or celiac friendly, and when you should walk out of a restaurant. Links and Resources Mentioned Find her on Instagram Visit with Jen on Facebook Watch her videos on YouTube View Jen’s pins on Pinterest Find out more about The Nomadic Fitzpatricks on the web Get Jen’s amazing cookbooks here Journey with Travel Gluten Free Grab the Guide to Traveling Gluten Free Get the BEST all-natural gluten-free travel cosmetics at Lemongrass Spa! Find cool gluten-free swag in my new shop here Visit my Travel Deals page on my website Support Travel Gluten Free on Patreon Travel Gluten Free on Social Media Twitter Facebook Youtube Pinterest Instagram On the Web Spread the love of Travel Gluten Free podcast and share this episode with a friend ***Disclaimer: All content found on the Travel Gluten Free Website, including text, images, audio, or other formats were created for informational purposes only. Material contained on Travel Gluten Free website, podcast, and social media postings are not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your qualified healthcare provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard or delay seeking professional medical advice, Travel Gluten Free website, podcast, and guests present content solely for educational and entertainment purposes, and use of this information is at your own risk.***

Pennsylvania Virtual Gluten Free Expo on November 7th

Travel Gluten Free

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 28, 2020 29:51

Travel Gluten Free Podcast Episode 108 Virtual Gluten Free with the Pennsylvania Virtual Gluten Free Expo Today I chat with Matt Bolich, founder of the Philadelphia Gluten Free Expo. In a “normal” year, Matt would be planning two in-person events for the gluten-free community - one in the spring and another in fall. This year, Matt has decided to create one big virtual event for those living the gluten-free lifestyle, with no geographical or economic limits to attend, as this event is free to the public on November 7th, 2020! Attend workshops, win prizes and find new gluten-free foods you’ll want to put on your shopping list. Besides, Matt is also hosting a special VIP ticket meet-up Thursday night before the event on November 5th. You can purchase a VIP ticket now - get one while they last! If you’re an influencer and interested in attending, email Matt at his email below. About Matt Matt’s and his wife have been producing gluten-free expos since 2013, and the 2020 show will be their 13th expo, but the first virtual one! When we launched our first event in State College at Penn State in 2013, their goal was to have 500 attendees and ended up with more than double the amount of people at the first show! “When we had a mom come up to us with tears in her eyes thanking us for doing an expo like this for her daughter, we knew these events were something special.” The Guide to Traveling Gluten Free Are you anxious about traveling with Celiacs Disease? Does the thought of getting sick on vacation worry you to no end? Unsure of what travel options are safe and how to choose a safe restaurant away from home for you and your children? The Guide to Traveling Gluten Free will walk you through the process of planning and enjoying your next gluten-free travel adventure! Take the guesswork out of how to travel, where to go, and how to eat safely when you follow the information in my guide. Whether you are celiacs or gluten intolerant, my guide will give you handy information to delight in your next vacation experience! Learn how to take a trip safely, what questions to ask when you are at a restaurant and which online tools and apps to utilize to find safe, dedicated gluten-free restaurants and food options. Find out what stores to shop at to purchase gluten-free food, determine if a restaurant is gluten-free or celiac friendly, and when you should walk out of a restaurant. Connect with Matt and the PA Gluten Free Expo PA Gluten Free Expo on Instagram Find out more about the expo On the Web Chat with PA Gluten Free Expo on Facebook Tweet with them on Twitter Email Matt matt@connectingglutenfree.com Links and Resources Mentioned Find out more about the PA Gluten Free Expo here Journey with Travel Gluten Free Grab the Guide to Traveling Gluten Free Get the BEST all-natural gluten-free travel cosmetics at Lemongrass Spa! Find cool gluten-free swag in my new shop here Visit my Travel Deals page on my website Support Travel Gluten Free on Patreon Travel Gluten Free on Social Media Twitter Facebook Youtube Pinterest Instagram On the Web Spread the love of Travel Gluten Free podcast and share this episode with a friend ***Disclaimer: All content found on the Travel Gluten Free Website, including text, images, audio, or other formats were created for informational purposes only. Material contained on Travel Gluten Free website, podcast, and social media postings are not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your qualified healthcare provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard or delay seeking professional medical advice, Travel Gluten Free website, podcast, and guests present content solely for educational and entertainment purposes, and use of this information is at your own risk.***

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Obesity Australia, If You Are Listening...

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 2, 2020 73:42

At LONG LAST I am pleased to present Part 2 of our deep dive into the murky underworld of "Big O" - Australia's obesity organisations, and their links to Big Pharma. Join me and fearless anti-diet dietitian Mandy-Lee Noble as we reveal the disturbing progress which Novo Nordisk is making, steadily infiltrating our universities, academics, health professionals, consumer groups, and news media with one goal: to make larger bodied Aussies believe that they are diseased and need urgent treatment! And in spite of the obesity organisations repeatedly claiming to be 'transparent' about their funding sources, we keep discovering that NOTHING is what it seems! Smoke, mirrors and deflections abound, and there is SO much money being thrown at so many different groups, our heads are spinning. AND they're using weight stigma as a weapon to push their drugs and surgeries! It's diabolical double speak and it needs to be stopped. This is an episode NOT to be missed ! Show Notes What’s firing up my wonderful anti-diet dietitian guest Mandy-Lee Noble? Since our last podcast, (Ep #55 - Inside The Obesity Collective), there have been some new developments on the Big Pharma front, particularly in how they are trying to shape hysteria around weight - driving people into treatment and portraying higher weight as being a health issue in and of itself. What has really spiked Mandy’s frustration is that at the start of 2020 the esteemed journal Nature (in their medical journal ‘Nature Medicine’) released a “Consensus statement” about obesity stigma. CONTENT WARNING - we’ll be using the stigmatising ‘o’ word (obese) throughout this podcast because of how the groups we’re talking about use it. But we HATE IT because it is implicitly stigmatising! So this group released a joint international consensus statement for the ending of stigma of the ‘o’ word (with that stigmatising word in the title!) We thought … maybe they’re starting to do the right thing? But … no. Upon reading, it reveals itself as just another push to get people into treatment simply because they are in a larger body. And what might be influencing this paper? Let’s check how many times Novo Nordisk is mentioned in this statement as a ‘conflict of interest’ … it’s in the double digits. 20 times, out of 40 authors. Novo Nordisk isn’t the only conflict of interest. The major supporters of this paper were pushing surgical devices for bariatric surgery (Ethicon). Mandy has issues about the use of the word ‘stigma’ here. Weight stigma is when you’re treated poorly just due to your weight, which we know is an epidemic and happening all the time and leading to poor health outcomes and disengagement from healthcare. When these industry groups use that word, they consider it a barrier to people using treatment! It’s all just dollar-signs to them. In the spirit of transparency - let’s go through the conflicts of interest for Louise and Mandy. Hope you’ve got some time …. (Louise played a cricket sound). ;) Basically fuck all, right? We’re not getting paid. We’re here for love, not money - not for the vested interest of corporations or even of ourselves. This kind of ‘investigative journalism’ research has an impact on our mental health, for sure! Mandy arcs up at the assumption that people at higher weights need treatment for disease - the stigma is there in the assumption. Let’s reflect on what happened after the last podcast. There were unexpected ripples from that episode. The powers that be at Obesity Australia were listening … either that or there were some totally weird coincidences. Some of the coincidences: the fact sheets disappeared! The fact sheets telling people that chips were lethal and to drink Diet Coke to put off their hunger, all of the magic 1920’s weight loss tips have vanished. The whole oldy-worldy Obesity Australia website has vanished and replaced with a trendy new Obesity Collective website. This all happened within 2 weeks of our last podcast with Mandy. There was a bit of an MIA issued in the last podcast for the Weight Issues Network - a consumer group that just didn’t seem to exist, until it magically appeared very soon after the podcast aired. We wondered, where are they getting the money from? Mandy sent them a Facebook message asking, and was told that the director would be in touch. Tiffany Petrie, director of The Obesity Collective, did reach out and offered to meet us for a coffee, which we accepted. We then learned Petrie would be bringing some friends to the coffee (some backup?). Immediately before the coffee date, they … pulled out! Petrie said she would be too busy for months to meet. The offer is still open from Mandy and Louise! On the types of articles that are being reposted on the WIN Facebook page, which has a huge following - at the moment there’s 100 people following, which includes Louise and Mandy. It’s funny that this group that’s meant to be addressing weight stigma reposts so many stigmatising articles. Things about the ‘war on childhood obesity’, and other articles that make Mandy go “wow”. Overall though, there isn’t too much action happening on that page. Mandy was contacted by some journalists to comment on the funding that Obesity Australia receives, and was pleased to see the table she provided was reproduced entirely in one of the articles (but without acknowledgement). The Medical Republic released a podcast and media article, which Louise came away from a bit disappointed - the title of the article was framed as ‘why is this being battled out between skinny people’, as if HAES Australia is battling in the ‘war on obesity’. HAES Australia is a body without industry funding to support people who want to provide weight-neutral care. Whereas the WIN is a ‘patient’ group which frames obesity as a disease. Completely different agendas. Mandy wanted the title of this podcast to be “Obesity Australia, if you are listening” - a reference to Russia and Trump, and how Obesity Australia seemed to be listening to the last podcast. Obesity Australia, if you ARE listening and if you REALLY are serious and want to end weight stigma, DO THESE THREE THINGS WE’LL TALK ABOUT HERE. Number 1: Advocate for medical professionals to disclose industry funding when they are talking to the media and/or their patients. It’s about informed consent! What is behind the advice that someone is receiving? If it’s money, that’s important information to know. A good example recently from Channel 9 News in a short segment called ‘Study hoped to decrease obesity stigma’. It’s just a minute or two long. We’ve seen all the ‘war on obesity’ stories, and this is a new take - obesity stigma?! But when you watch the story, it’s nothing new at all. The story is tremendously stigmatising with all the same language about ‘battling’ weight and obesity, framing it as the enemy. It also uses ‘headless fatty’ images, of people in larger bodies with their heads not shown, carrying their fast food lunches around as it was probably filmed on a lunch break. The program banged on about rates of overweight and obesity as if they were the rates of people who were unwell - as if everyone in those groups is diseased. Life expectancy, however, continues to rise (shh). The study mentioned in the story was QUITE hard to get hold of. It’s not even a new study, it was published in February 2019. At least, we think this is the study because they haven’t referenced it adequately in the story. Our statistics match up with theirs, so we think it’s the same one. And the study itself has NOTHING to do with stigma. The title is “Gaps to bridge: misalignment between perception, reality and action in obesity”. But the gap is ‘how to get people to treatment’ - why aren’t more fat people asking for help from their doctors? That’s basically the only question asked in the study, and ‘weight stigma’ doesn’t appear in the study. None of the researchers are weight stigma researchers. Dr Georgia Regis gives an expert opinion as an ‘obesity physician and researcher’ that people in larger bodies need to seek medical help. She’s using the big assumption that everyone in a larger body requires treatment. And was this opinion out of the goodness of her heart? Or … perhaps because she has some vested interest that isn’t declared in this piece? Dr Regis actually has several conflicts of interest to declare, which we see on the research articles we read - but people seeing her speak on the news don’t get that declaration of conflict of interest. Dr Regis actually received $43,000 over three years from Novo Nordisk, a company that produces weight loss drugs. And that’s not the only treatment industry that she’s accepted fees from - there are other payments here from companies that make products and treatments for bariatric surgery. Dr Regis may of course be giving unbiased and evidence-based opinions. Either way though, just as she is required to do in research, she should be declaring these conflicts of interest to the media she speaks to and TO HER PATIENTS. Transparency! It’s even in the Obesity Australia principles! Fun fact: Novo Nordisk (you’ll never guess) actually completely funded this research paper. They also have made other payments to the authors on the paper, and this is on top of paying for the researcher’s travel expenses to attend ‘author meetings’ about this paper. Where would they need to go !?? Let’s talk privilege, because it’s necessary when talking about stigma. Mandy and Louise have the privilege of being educated, having access to research, and being health professionals. When Mandy and Louise read this research, conflicts of interest have to be declared - but it’s not necessary at the moment that these conflicts are declared to media or to patients. Obesity Australia, if you’re listening - advocate for health professionals to declare conflicts of interest. Number 2: If you’re listening, Obesity Australia, be transparent about industry funded consumer groups. This includes WIN, the Weight Issues Network. WIN does say on their website (in their ‘transparency statement’) that they receive some funding from Obesity Australia, ANZOS and ANZMOS (groups with ties back to Novo Nordisk). WIN has six principles - transparency is one of them, another is about being ‘safe and empowering’ - providing “information, support, and a place to have a voice”. So, what we’re asking from them is definitely in lines with what they say they’re going to provide. One of our planned ‘coffee questions’ was about where they got their money from - and at first we were told the money was donated. Since then we’ve learned that Obesity Australia gave WIN $5,000 to start them off. We haven’t had a response about how much money they received from ANZOS and ANZMOS. It’s interesting that when we email them we get responses back from Tiffany, who is not actually part of WIN … it’s all very incestuous. On the WIN page, we learn that funding has come from the Obesity Collective, which is basically the same as Obesity Australia. The other thing is that WIN has now set themselves up as a separate charity, which means people can donate directly to them and get (possible) tax exemptions. Some other issues we have with transparency - they claim they’re getting pro bono support. We generally understand that as people providing work for free. This pro bono work is coming from PricewaterhouseCoopers. They have a long term business relationship with Novo Nordisk, having been their auditors for years. WIN has a board - some with lived experience, a clinician, a researcher and some others including a bariatric surgeon (we think some of the people in WIN are this surgeon’s patients). Who we mainly hear from is Lynne Keppler, who has done some media and spoken at obesity conferences. What is missing from the board is people who are not treatment-seeking. All of them describe themselves as a patient or someone living with a condition of ill health. The WIN also receive some training, some webinars that we’ve seen that come from Dr Arya Sharma, a Canadian bariatric physician and bigwig in Obesity Inc. Who paid for that!? Novo Nordisk paid to fly Dr Sharma in for seminars and meetings - his expertise here is helping people tell their stories and stay on track with their key messages, all of which perfectly align with Novo Nordisk. It’s pretty clear in these webinars that the key messages he wants people to stay on are that obesity is a disease, and that weight stigma is a barrier for larger bodied people seeking weight treatment such as surgery and drugs. So, what we have is a consumer group that has claimed that they are transparent, when they’re really receiving training from people who are heavily funded by Novo Nordisk and being supported by groups that are supported by Novo Nordisk and other pharma groups and bariatric supplies manufacturers. It’s hard to see how this is a transparent consumer group that is free of conflicts of interest because it’s all being funded by weight loss treatment industries. That’s our concern. What we’d like Obesity Australia to do, if they’re listening, is encourage WIN to be transparent. For example, where is the source funding coming from for events such as the one run by Dr Sharma? On their website and Facebook group, WIN encourages people to share their stories. Louise has the question ‘what for?’. Is it so their stories can be packaged up and used to further the agenda (lobbying the government to increase obesity services?). It’s a misuse of the word ‘stigma’. Talking about the stigma you’ve faced takes a toll - and then that lived experience gets media trained and packaged so you continue talking to the media and government groups about how much you need these interventions … it feels really dark. They’re not really asking people for stories about weight stigma, but about stories of treatment seeking. Number 3: If you’re listening, Obesity Australia, we’d like you to be transparent about the industry funding that health professional groups get. Health professional groups are another way to lobby for change, lobby governments, etc. It would be really good if we could see those entities also be transparent. An example: NACOS, the National Association of Clinical Obesity Services. Louise had never heard of this group before! It’s quite new, having only dropped in September 2019, after WIN dropped in August 2019. Louise read through a NACOS financial report, wondering who they are and how they came to be. Clinical Obesity Services are units in hospitals involving teams of health professionals offering weight loss services. Evan Atlantis, NACOS President, in his financial report for NACOS wrote that they are committed to improving health services and clinical services for patients with obesity, with considerable support and grant funding from … Novo Nordisk. After the NACOS formed, the Novo Nordisk money paid for Price Waterhouse Coopers (PWC) to write up a report outlining just how dire obesity is and how urgently services are needed (you guessed it, completely the same as the other Novo Nordisk reports written by PWC). PWC wrote 4 out of the 5 “obesity is dreadful” reports produced by Obesity Australia. Guess who is the secretary general of NACOS? Dr Nick … the bariatric surgeon who is also on the board of WIN. If you’re listening, Obesity Australia, here are those three things we want you to advocate for if you’re really serious about addressing weight stigma. NUMBER 1: Advocate for medical professionals to be transparent and disclose industry funding with media, general public and patients. NUMBER 2: Consumer groups that are industry funded be more transparent about all funding, in-kind support and training. NUMBER 3: That health professional groups be more transparent about their funding sources. Is there something that All Fired Up! listeners could possibly think about as you move through media and accessing healthcare? We might look at all this stuff and think “bloody hell, I’m just one person! What can I do?!”. If you’re talking to anyone medical who is trying to sell or advise you on weight loss drugs or procedures, ask them to disclose if they are receiving any payments or training from these groups … and how much. You need to know if your health professional is being potentially influenced by industry funding. Research shows that for the majority of health professionals who are inviting people to use these drugs or surgeries, their training about them has come completely from these groups that make money from them. And ask about the long term side effects! We hope this has been helpful and insightful, and rounded out our journey down the rabbit hole that we started over a year ago. Why is Novo Nordisk, a HUGE pharmaceutical company, so interested in little old Australia? Actually, this is happening globally - and that will be the subject of the next podcast. You won’t believe the size of this octopus. An update on Professor Simpson, executive director of Obesity Australia who had a grant from Novo Nordisk … we found out how much it was. Let’s remember that the research that Novo Nordisk were funding was NOT about weight stigma, but about cricket sperm. Hmm. And that grant amount for research that has nothing to do with weight stigma? 13 MILLION DOLLARS. The head of Obesity Australia, an organisation which pretends to be all about weight stigma, is being funded to the tune of $13 MILLION by Novo Nordisk in order to research cricket sperm. If people are really feeling they’re providing unbiased advice, they’d be happy to provide their conflicts of interest. When we hear messages from the head of Obesity Australia, think about it, are we really hearing the messages of Novo Nordisk? To be continued! This story isn’t over. Resources Mentioned Find out more about my amazing guest Mandy-Lee Noble here The Joint International Consensus Statement for Ending Stigma of Obesity The Weight Issues Network website (checkout the logo!) The Medical Republic article “Why is the war on obesity being fought by skinny folks”? The Channel 9 news piece which wasn’t really about weight stigma The study that the Channel 9 news piece was talking about, which also has nothing to do with weight stigma The Novo Nordisk funded National Association of Clinical Obesity Services (NACOS)

Obesity Australia, If You Are Listening...

Little Left of Center Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 2, 2020 73:42

At LONG LAST I am pleased to present Part 2 of our deep dive into the murky underworld of "Big O" - Australia's obesity organisations, and their links to Big Pharma. Join me and fearless anti-diet dietitian Mandy-Lee Noble as we reveal the disturbing progress which Novo Nordisk is making, steadily infiltrating our universities, academics, health professionals, consumer groups, and news media with one goal: to make larger bodied Aussies believe that they are diseased and need urgent treatment! And in spite of the obesity organisations repeatedly claiming to be 'transparent' about their funding sources, we keep discovering that NOTHING is what it seems! Smoke, mirrors and deflections abound, and there is SO much money being thrown at so many different groups, our heads are spinning. AND they're using weight stigma as a weapon to push their drugs and surgeries! It's diabolical double speak and it needs to be stopped. This is an episode NOT to be missed ! Show Notes What’s firing up my wonderful anti-diet dietitian guest Mandy-Lee Noble? Since our last podcast, (Ep #55 - Inside The Obesity Collective), there have been some new developments on the Big Pharma front, particularly in how they are trying to shape hysteria around weight - driving people into treatment and portraying higher weight as being a health issue in and of itself. What has really spiked Mandy’s frustration is that at the start of 2020 the esteemed journal Nature (in their medical journal ‘Nature Medicine’) released a “Consensus statement” about obesity stigma. CONTENT WARNING - we’ll be using the stigmatising ‘o’ word (obese) throughout this podcast because of how the groups we’re talking about use it. But we HATE IT because it is implicitly stigmatising! So this group released a joint international consensus statement for the ending of stigma of the ‘o’ word (with that stigmatising word in the title!) We thought … maybe they’re starting to do the right thing? But … no. Upon reading, it reveals itself as just another push to get people into treatment simply because they are in a larger body. And what might be influencing this paper? Let’s check how many times Novo Nordisk is mentioned in this statement as a ‘conflict of interest’ … it’s in the double digits. 20 times, out of 40 authors. Novo Nordisk isn’t the only conflict of interest. The major supporters of this paper were pushing surgical devices for bariatric surgery (Ethicon). Mandy has issues about the use of the word ‘stigma’ here. Weight stigma is when you’re treated poorly just due to your weight, which we know is an epidemic and happening all the time and leading to poor health outcomes and disengagement from healthcare. When these industry groups use that word, they consider it a barrier to people using treatment! It’s all just dollar-signs to them. In the spirit of transparency - let’s go through the conflicts of interest for Louise and Mandy. Hope you’ve got some time …. (Louise played a cricket sound). ;) Basically fuck all, right? We’re not getting paid. We’re here for love, not money - not for the vested interest of corporations or even of ourselves. This kind of ‘investigative journalism’ research has an impact on our mental health, for sure! Mandy arcs up at the assumption that people at higher weights need treatment for disease - the stigma is there in the assumption. Let’s reflect on what happened after the last podcast. There were unexpected ripples from that episode. The powers that be at Obesity Australia were listening … either that or there were some totally weird coincidences. Some of the coincidences: the fact sheets disappeared! The fact sheets telling people that chips were lethal and to drink Diet Coke to put off their hunger, all of the magic 1920’s weight loss tips have vanished. The whole oldy-worldy Obesity Australia website has vanished and replaced with a trendy new Obesity Collective website. This all happened within 2 weeks of our last podcast with Mandy. There was a bit of an MIA issued in the last podcast for the Weight Issues Network - a consumer group that just didn’t seem to exist, until it magically appeared very soon after the podcast aired. We wondered, where are they getting the money from? Mandy sent them a Facebook message asking, and was told that the director would be in touch. Tiffany Petrie, director of The Obesity Collective, did reach out and offered to meet us for a coffee, which we accepted. We then learned Petrie would be bringing some friends to the coffee (some backup?). Immediately before the coffee date, they … pulled out! Petrie said she would be too busy for months to meet. The offer is still open from Mandy and Louise! On the types of articles that are being reposted on the WIN Facebook page, which has a huge following - at the moment there’s 100 people following, which includes Louise and Mandy. It’s funny that this group that’s meant to be addressing weight stigma reposts so many stigmatising articles. Things about the ‘war on childhood obesity’, and other articles that make Mandy go “wow”. Overall though, there isn’t too much action happening on that page. Mandy was contacted by some journalists to comment on the funding that Obesity Australia receives, and was pleased to see the table she provided was reproduced entirely in one of the articles (but without acknowledgement). The Medical Republic released a podcast and media article, which Louise came away from a bit disappointed - the title of the article was framed as ‘why is this being battled out between skinny people’, as if HAES Australia is battling in the ‘war on obesity’. HAES Australia is a body without industry funding to support people who want to provide weight-neutral care. Whereas the WIN is a ‘patient’ group which frames obesity as a disease. Completely different agendas. Mandy wanted the title of this podcast to be “Obesity Australia, if you are listening” - a reference to Russia and Trump, and how Obesity Australia seemed to be listening to the last podcast. Obesity Australia, if you ARE listening and if you REALLY are serious and want to end weight stigma, DO THESE THREE THINGS WE’LL TALK ABOUT HERE. Number 1: Advocate for medical professionals to disclose industry funding when they are talking to the media and/or their patients. It’s about informed consent! What is behind the advice that someone is receiving? If it’s money, that’s important information to know. A good example recently from Channel 9 News in a short segment called ‘Study hoped to decrease obesity stigma’. It’s just a minute or two long. We’ve seen all the ‘war on obesity’ stories, and this is a new take - obesity stigma?! But when you watch the story, it’s nothing new at all. The story is tremendously stigmatising with all the same language about ‘battling’ weight and obesity, framing it as the enemy. It also uses ‘headless fatty’ images, of people in larger bodies with their heads not shown, carrying their fast food lunches around as it was probably filmed on a lunch break. The program banged on about rates of overweight and obesity as if they were the rates of people who were unwell - as if everyone in those groups is diseased. Life expectancy, however, continues to rise (shh). The study mentioned in the story was QUITE hard to get hold of. It’s not even a new study, it was published in February 2019. At least, we think this is the study because they haven’t referenced it adequately in the story. Our statistics match up with theirs, so we think it’s the same one. And the study itself has NOTHING to do with stigma. The title is “Gaps to bridge: misalignment between perception, reality and action in obesity”. But the gap is ‘how to get people to treatment’ - why aren’t more fat people asking for help from their doctors? That’s basically the only question asked in the study, and ‘weight stigma’ doesn’t appear in the study. None of the researchers are weight stigma researchers. Dr Georgia Regis gives an expert opinion as an ‘obesity physician and researcher’ that people in larger bodies need to seek medical help. She’s using the big assumption that everyone in a larger body requires treatment. And was this opinion out of the goodness of her heart? Or … perhaps because she has some vested interest that isn’t declared in this piece? Dr Regis actually has several conflicts of interest to declare, which we see on the research articles we read - but people seeing her speak on the news don’t get that declaration of conflict of interest. Dr Regis actually received $43,000 over three years from Novo Nordisk, a company that produces weight loss drugs. And that’s not the only treatment industry that she’s accepted fees from - there are other payments here from companies that make products and treatments for bariatric surgery. Dr Regis may of course be giving unbiased and evidence-based opinions. Either way though, just as she is required to do in research, she should be declaring these conflicts of interest to the media she speaks to and TO HER PATIENTS. Transparency! It’s even in the Obesity Australia principles! Fun fact: Novo Nordisk (you’ll never guess) actually completely funded this research paper. They also have made other payments to the authors on the paper, and this is on top of paying for the researcher’s travel expenses to attend ‘author meetings’ about this paper. Where would they need to go !?? Let’s talk privilege, because it’s necessary when talking about stigma. Mandy and Louise have the privilege of being educated, having access to research, and being health professionals. When Mandy and Louise read this research, conflicts of interest have to be declared - but it’s not necessary at the moment that these conflicts are declared to media or to patients. Obesity Australia, if you’re listening - advocate for health professionals to declare conflicts of interest. Number 2: If you’re listening, Obesity Australia, be transparent about industry funded consumer groups. This includes WIN, the Weight Issues Network. WIN does say on their website (in their ‘transparency statement’) that they receive some funding from Obesity Australia, ANZOS and ANZMOS (groups with ties back to Novo Nordisk). WIN has six principles - transparency is one of them, another is about being ‘safe and empowering’ - providing “information, support, and a place to have a voice”. So, what we’re asking from them is definitely in lines with what they say they’re going to provide. One of our planned ‘coffee questions’ was about where they got their money from - and at first we were told the money was donated. Since then we’ve learned that Obesity Australia gave WIN $5,000 to start them off. We haven’t had a response about how much money they received from ANZOS and ANZMOS. It’s interesting that when we email them we get responses back from Tiffany, who is not actually part of WIN … it’s all very incestuous. On the WIN page, we learn that funding has come from the Obesity Collective, which is basically the same as Obesity Australia. The other thing is that WIN has now set themselves up as a separate charity, which means people can donate directly to them and get (possible) tax exemptions. Some other issues we have with transparency - they claim they’re getting pro bono support. We generally understand that as people providing work for free. This pro bono work is coming from PricewaterhouseCoopers. They have a long term business relationship with Novo Nordisk, having been their auditors for years. WIN has a board - some with lived experience, a clinician, a researcher and some others including a bariatric surgeon (we think some of the people in WIN are this surgeon’s patients). Who we mainly hear from is Lynne Keppler, who has done some media and spoken at obesity conferences. What is missing from the board is people who are not treatment-seeking. All of them describe themselves as a patient or someone living with a condition of ill health. The WIN also receive some training, some webinars that we’ve seen that come from Dr Arya Sharma, a Canadian bariatric physician and bigwig in Obesity Inc. Who paid for that!? Novo Nordisk paid to fly Dr Sharma in for seminars and meetings - his expertise here is helping people tell their stories and stay on track with their key messages, all of which perfectly align with Novo Nordisk. It’s pretty clear in these webinars that the key messages he wants people to stay on are that obesity is a disease, and that weight stigma is a barrier for larger bodied people seeking weight treatment such as surgery and drugs. So, what we have is a consumer group that has claimed that they are transparent, when they’re really receiving training from people who are heavily funded by Novo Nordisk and being supported by groups that are supported by Novo Nordisk and other pharma groups and bariatric supplies manufacturers. It’s hard to see how this is a transparent consumer group that is free of conflicts of interest because it’s all being funded by weight loss treatment industries. That’s our concern. What we’d like Obesity Australia to do, if they’re listening, is encourage WIN to be transparent. For example, where is the source funding coming from for events such as the one run by Dr Sharma? On their website and Facebook group, WIN encourages people to share their stories. Louise has the question ‘what for?’. Is it so their stories can be packaged up and used to further the agenda (lobbying the government to increase obesity services?). It’s a misuse of the word ‘stigma’. Talking about the stigma you’ve faced takes a toll - and then that lived experience gets media trained and packaged so you continue talking to the media and government groups about how much you need these interventions … it feels really dark. They’re not really asking people for stories about weight stigma, but about stories of treatment seeking. Number 3: If you’re listening, Obesity Australia, we’d like you to be transparent about the industry funding that health professional groups get. Health professional groups are another way to lobby for change, lobby governments, etc. It would be really good if we could see those entities also be transparent. An example: NACOS, the National Association of Clinical Obesity Services. Louise had never heard of this group before! It’s quite new, having only dropped in September 2019, after WIN dropped in August 2019. Louise read through a NACOS financial report, wondering who they are and how they came to be. Clinical Obesity Services are units in hospitals involving teams of health professionals offering weight loss services. Evan Atlantis, NACOS President, in his financial report for NACOS wrote that they are committed to improving health services and clinical services for patients with obesity, with considerable support and grant funding from … Novo Nordisk. After the NACOS formed, the Novo Nordisk money paid for Price Waterhouse Coopers (PWC) to write up a report outlining just how dire obesity is and how urgently services are needed (you guessed it, completely the same as the other Novo Nordisk reports written by PWC). PWC wrote 4 out of the 5 “obesity is dreadful” reports produced by Obesity Australia. Guess who is the secretary general of NACOS? Dr Nick … the bariatric surgeon who is also on the board of WIN. If you’re listening, Obesity Australia, here are those three things we want you to advocate for if you’re really serious about addressing weight stigma. NUMBER 1: Advocate for medical professionals to be transparent and disclose industry funding with media, general public and patients. NUMBER 2: Consumer groups that are industry funded be more transparent about all funding, in-kind support and training. NUMBER 3: That health professional groups be more transparent about their funding sources. Is there something that All Fired Up! listeners could possibly think about as you move through media and accessing healthcare? We might look at all this stuff and think “bloody hell, I’m just one person! What can I do?!”. If you’re talking to anyone medical who is trying to sell or advise you on weight loss drugs or procedures, ask them to disclose if they are receiving any payments or training from these groups … and how much. You need to know if your health professional is being potentially influenced by industry funding. Research shows that for the majority of health professionals who are inviting people to use these drugs or surgeries, their training about them has come completely from these groups that make money from them. And ask about the long term side effects! We hope this has been helpful and insightful, and rounded out our journey down the rabbit hole that we started over a year ago. Why is Novo Nordisk, a HUGE pharmaceutical company, so interested in little old Australia? Actually, this is happening globally - and that will be the subject of the next podcast. You won’t believe the size of this octopus. An update on Professor Simpson, executive director of Obesity Australia who had a grant from Novo Nordisk … we found out how much it was. Let’s remember that the research that Novo Nordisk were funding was NOT about weight stigma, but about cricket sperm. Hmm. And that grant amount for research that has nothing to do with weight stigma? 13 MILLION DOLLARS. The head of Obesity Australia, an organisation which pretends to be all about weight stigma, is being funded to the tune of $13 MILLION by Novo Nordisk in order to research cricket sperm. If people are really feeling they’re providing unbiased advice, they’d be happy to provide their conflicts of interest. When we hear messages from the head of Obesity Australia, think about it, are we really hearing the messages of Novo Nordisk? To be continued! This story isn’t over. Resources Mentioned Find out more about my amazing guest Mandy-Lee Noble here The Joint International Consensus Statement for Ending Stigma of Obesity The Weight Issues Network website (checkout the logo!) The Medical Republic article “Why is the war on obesity being fought by skinny folks”? The Channel 9 news piece which wasn’t really about weight stigma The study that the Channel 9 news piece was talking about, which also has nothing to do with weight stigma The Novo Nordisk funded National Association of Clinical Obesity Services (NACOS)

EP69: 9 Tips To Nailing Your Podcast Interview

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 14, 2020 20:37

So much goes into a GREAT interview. And it truly is an art and interviewing is an important life skill that can cross into every area of your life. This requires sharpening your own emotional intelligence in the process. There’s no such thing as a perfect interviewer. The best news is that you are always continuously evolving and improving. As someone who interviews people not only for this podcast but also unsuspecting strangers by nature, I’ve noticed some cardinal mistakes people make that instantly turn the listener off when I listen to other podcasts - and also some small tweaks that can make your podcast interview so irresistible that your listeners will be posting it, sharing it, and sending it to all their friends.I break down 9 Tips to Nail Your Podcast Interview.Resources Mentioned:Find me everywhere at Allison’s Linktree.Follow me on Instagram: https://instagram.com/allison__harePress Play Podcasts - Launch Your Podcast in 6 weeks! https://pressplaypodcasts.coSign up for Sticky Notes Blog: Simplecast - Hosting platform Squadcast - Remote audio recordingClick for a free Podcast Equipment and Recording ChecklistIn full disclosure, some links may contain affiliate links which means I may get compensated.

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EP13 Q&A With Original Plum Dragon Founder Josh Walker

Staying in the Game, A Plum Dragon Herbs Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 12, 2020 86:29

Welcome to the Plum Dragon Herbs Podcast Series “Staying in the Game.” In this episode, we’re addressing YOUR questions in a special Q&A interview with Josh Walker, the original founder of Plum Dragon Herbs. We dive into detail on how to use Dit Da Jow (topical herbal formulas) as well as Dit Dan Wan (internal tonics). We also answer training questions and some of the special herbs that Josh recommends. For more details, check out the show notes below. We also welcome NEW questions in the comment section, so we can answer more of your questions! Show Notes: 0:24 How Plum Dragon came about. 1:50 Formulas that would be geared toward osteoporosis. 3:50 Picking the best alcohol to mix with Dit Da Jow herb packs. 5:53 Best liniments for iron palm practice. 15:55 How long to age Jow before it’s effective. 17:27 Using Internal Wine’s and Josh’s favorite internal formula. 23:25 Promoting Qi flow. 25:06 How to measure your iron palm training progress. 32:02 Using mineral water instead of vodka. 34:50 Advice for finding a first-class practitioner and acupuncturist. 38:08 Products Josh recommends to strengthen bones and joints. 40:25 When products start diminishing in potency. 47:40 How Jow is affected by the temperature at which it is stored. 51:30 Best Jow for finger conditioning/training 54:20 Why granulated herbs don’t work as well as whole herbs. 1:01:02 When and how the Plum Dragon Chai Training tea is useful and how to make it. 1:04:53 Basic differences between our top-three selling formulas: Ho Family Dit Da Jow, Bruise Juice and Ancestor’s Advanced Conditioning Formula. 1:15:03 What Plum Dragon products Josh would recommend for contact sports. Quote: “This is where TCM ends up being really powerful…. Let’s treat the underlying reason [for pain] in addition to treating the symptom and making the patient feel better….”—Josh Walker Links and Resources Mentioned: Find out more about Josh Walker and connect with him on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/PlumDragon), LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-walk...), or Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/user/plumdragon) *Plum Dragon Herbs Dit Da Jow (https://plumdragonherbs.com/collectio...) *Ancestor’s Advanced Conditioning Formula (https://plumdragonherbs.com/products/...) *Ho Family Dit Da Jow (https://plumdragonherbs.com/products/...) *Bruise Juice (https://plumdragonherbs.com/products/...) Connect with Plum Dragon Herbs: https://www.facebook.com/PlumDragonHerbs https://www.instagram.com/plumdragonh... https://twitter.com/plumdragonherbs https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-ball... Thank You For Listening! How did you like this episode? We’d love to continue the discussion with you. Share your comments and takeaways below. And if you liked this episode, subscribe to our iTunes and YouTube channels and be sure to follow, like and comment! Podcast Music Credit: Motherlode Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/b...

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EP12 Tips for a Stronger Body and Mind From an Iron Palm Expert

Staying in the Game, A Plum Dragon Herbs Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 31, 2019 54:58

View a complete transcript of the show here. “You’re constantly battling yourself, so you’ve got to constantly battle with what you’re weakest at...to try and self develop as many aspects of your weaknesses as you can.”—Brett Barrell Our latest podcast guest joins us from down under. The ‘Iron Body Martial Artist,’ Brett Barrell, is originally from South Africa, has spent lots of time in the U.K., and now lives in Australia. So if you can’t pinpoint his accent, don’t worry about it…it’s cool either way. Brett has spent the past 10 years serving as a police officer and has been involved in martial arts since he was 5. He has a black belt in juijitsu and has studied Shaolin Kung Fu since his early teens. Brett also runs a YouTube channel where he trains people in Iron Palm, which is the main topic of our podcast. Highlights:⠀ ◉ Overcome challenges by never giving up and channeling your focus into something positive. ◉ Consistent and progressive practice will help prevent permanent damage when training. ◉ Remember where the skills of iron palm came from: the mindset of constant self-development. Show Notes: 0:50 Brett Barrell introduces himself as a police officer and and runs a YouTube channel to help train people in Iron Palm. 4:50 Iron palm training is like a form of meditation and helps you combat emotional stress as well as helping defend yourself physically . 8:47 In a real confrontation, you don’t have gloves, so the iron palm self defense techniques can help protect yourself from a surprise attack. 10:10 Consistent and progressive practice will help prevent permanent damage when iron palm training. 16:40 How Brett recommends staying in the game of life by eating better and assessing our health. 18:45 Taking antiinflammatory herbs can help your body recover and cope with the demands of iron palm training. 21:15 Take a realistic look at yourself and don’t underestimate how aggressive and violent people can be. 26:10 Incorporate military-style endurance training and yogic-style flexibility exercises for overall health. 30:10 Qigong—bone and tendon washing—helps to align the spine and increase circulation around the tendons 35:20 Overcome challenges by never giving up and channel your focus into something positive. 39:10 Your mind is a powerful tool; you don’t have to give up. Take a few minutes. Take a couple of days and get back on track. 43:30 Remember where the skills of iron palm came from: the mindset of constant self-development. Quotes: “You’re constantly battling yourself, so you’ve got to constantly battle with what you’re weakest at...to try and self develop as many aspects of your weaknesses as you can.” “A lot of problems that are years in the making, people don’t realize they could be years in the breaking…..Know and have faith that you can work through a lot of things.” Links and Resources Mentioned: Find out more about Brett Barrell and connect with him on YouTube or Facebook or https://www.patreon.com/IBMA Plum Dragon Herbs Dit Da Jow Ancestor’s Advanced Conditioning Form Ho Family Dit Da Jow Bruise Juice Connect with Plum Dragon Herbs: YouTube | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn Podcast Music Credit: Motherlode Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

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159: "The Bridesmaid's Daughter"

Mom & Mind

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 2, 2019 33:34

Today’s show is an interesting look into how postpartum issues were dealt with, or not dealt with, in the past. We are looking from the perspective of a daughter who has been on a quest to discover the truth about her birth, her unusual childhood, and her mother’s illness. Nyna Giles is the author of The Bridesmaid’s Daughter, a deeply personal memoir about family, mental health, and revisiting the past. We’ll hear her perspective about growing up with a mother who had mental illness, and how she now knows that her mother had untreated postpartum psychosis. Back then, there was not much knowledge or support for mothers going through any perinatal crisis. We get to hear from Nyna’s perspective what it was like to grow up in that environment and what she reflected on as an adult that she shares through writing The Bridesmaid’s Daughter. Nyna is the youngest daughter of Carolyn Scott Reybold, a Ford model best known as one of Grace Kelly’s bridesmaids. Nyna has worked with leading media organizations and is the COO of Giles Communications. She’s an advocate for the mentally ill, traveling the globe to share her story, revealing the challenges brought on by her mother’s untreated mental illness and her own lost childhood and education. Nyna is a board member of NAMI Westchester and serves on the NAMI New York State Legislative Committee. She is also a volunteer with Postpartum Resource Center of NY. She lives in Westchester with her husband and has three children and three stepchildren. Show Highlights: How the book tells the story of Nyna’s mother’s untreated mental illness A summary of her mother’s glamorous life as a successful model in the 1940’s and 1950’s and best friend to Grace Kelly How her mother married, built a dream house on Long Island, and gave up her career to become a full-time mother to Nyna’s two older sisters How Nyna’s birth was traumatic because she was almost 11 lbs.! Her mother had to have her third C-section and a hysterectomy How Nyna’s father had an affair while she was an infant, and her mother had no family close by and no support Why Nyna had a lack of formal education, no friendships, and was trapped with her mother in a cycle of dysfunction The only diagnosis her mother ever received was paranoid schizophrenia in her 50’s How the change was evident in Nyna’s mom in pictures before and after Nyna’s birth As a child, Nyna never felt connected to or safe with her mom---even though she was with her all the time Nyna’s social anxiety as a teenager, and why she left home at age 14 Why mental illness was a topic that no one talked about back then Now Nyna’s father started staying away from home because he didn’t want to deal with his wife and her mental illness How Nyna’s mom gave away all her money and became homeless Why Nyna has to balance and limit the pain she feels from the past Nyna’s transition to motherhood with her three children Why Nyna felt compelled to get her school records What Nyna learned through her discovery in understanding her birth and what really happened to her mother The revelation Nyna learned about the sexual abuse of her mother by her stepfather How we can each help with mental health by engaging in real conversations Resources Mentioned: Find out more about the book and Nyna: The Bridesmaid's Daughter Facebook: Nyna Giles Author Twitter: Nyna Giles Instagram: Nyna Giles Author

ny daughter coo long island westchester grace kelly bridesmaid show highlights resources mentioned find nyna giles

Ep. 191: Royce M. - Stepping into Fear

Chasing Dreams with Aimee J.

Play Episode Listen Later May 8, 2019 55:53

Many of us battle with anxiety and its symptoms, but what’s most important is how we respond, and how we learn to cope. Do you use anxiety as an excuse for all the things you can’t do? Today’s guest shares his personal story with vulnerability, openness, and honesty about how he’s refused to let anxiety stop him! In honor of Mental Health Awareness Month, my little brother is here, hoping his experiences can help others. Royce M is a 2nd-year seminarian at St. Vladimir’s Orthodox Theological Seminary in Yonkers, NY. Royce received his undergraduate degree in Information Systems at the University of Maryland, University College, (UMUC). Originally from the DC/Maryland/Virginia area, Royce has always been involved in church youth activities. In his free time, Royce likes to run and play sports, and he loves anything related to technology. Royce has always valued stepping out of his comfort zone, stepping into his fear, and working hard to conquer it. Childhood struggles Did you have any challenges to overcome in childhood? When Royce was just a baby, his parents noticed that he was growing at an unusually fast rate for his age. Doctors suspected a brain tumor, but further tests revealed a huge blood clot that was pressing on his pituitary gland, affecting his growth. After corrective surgery, Royce led a fairly normal life, but he had to wear glasses, worked slower in school than others, and was diagnosed with ADHD. These difficulties led to intense bullying in elementary school, which took a lot of effort to get through, with the help of a few close friends who helped create a safe space for Royce. TWEET: There’s no other way to say it but that being bullied sucks. #chasingdreams Hats off to guidance counselors! Have you thanked a guidance counselor today? Probably not. Their work in schools is vitally important, but it’s a thankless job in many cases. When Royce saw his school guidance counselor, she was able to help him significantly. She had a toy dragon that she encouraged Royce to tell about his thoughts and feelings. She taught him that it was OK to feel his feelings and that he wasn’t alone. Ironically, on Royce’s regular summer trips to India, he met a dog that became his buddy---the one he could tell his thoughts and feelings. This practice (and it was the same dog year after year) helped Royce “clear the slate” each summer to prepare for a new school year when he returned to the US. TWEET: Finding a way to share your thoughts and feelings can help clear your mind and prepare you for bigger things. #chasingdreams Learning to ask for help How good are you at asking for help? Most of us are reluctant to admit that we need help, and sometimes we don’t know who to ask. Royce was motivated to finish his bachelor’s degree, even though it took several years of going down a crazy path. He had the dream of going to seminary but knew it couldn’t happen until he finished his undergrad degree. The game changer for Royce was admitting that he needed help and being willing to ask for it. He took proactive steps in seeing the doctor about his ADHD and asking the college guidance counselor about available accommodations because of his diagnosis. The bottom line is that everything improved for Royce when he asked for the help he needed. TWEET: When you recognize that you need help and ask for the help you need, your life will dramatically improve. #chasingdreams Guest Recommendation: ONE action for a dream chaser to take--”Ask yourself if you would still love what you do, whether or not you struggled to do it.” OUTLINE OF THIS EPISODE: [:15] Royce’s childhood surgery [2:50] Being held back [5:27] Royce’s experience with being bullied [8:35] The benefit of having a safe space [10:02] How Royce addressed his ADHD [16:05] Why Royce went off his ADHD medication [17:59] Middle school: the peak of bullying and ADHD symptoms [25:15] How high school was different because of a mindset shift [29:05} An unconventional path in college [31:24] Why Royce had to leave college [37:00] Royce’s passion for going to seminary [40:35] Royce’s fears that were in his head [46:09] Where Royce is today [49:15] Royce’s battle wounds [50:35] ONE action for a dream chaser RESOURCES MENTIONED: Find the Behind-the-Scenes interview for more with Royce on YouTube! TWEETS YOU CAN USE: TWEET: Getting off the ADHD meds was like having withdrawals from a drug. #chasingdreams TWEET: We all go through some kind of struggle, so we have to accept it and ask for help. #chasingdreams TWEET: The first step was admitting that I needed help---and that was the hardest part. #chasingdreams

Pregnancy

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 21, 2019 60:37

Diet culture has a nasty habit of targeting women at vulnerable times in their lives, and this is particularly evident in pregnancy and birth. This week on All Fired Up!, I am venting with the incredible Hilary Kinavey and Dana Sturtevant from Be Nourished, who bravely walked into a medical conference and called out the rampant weight stigma which is hurting pregnant women. This is a not to be missed episode, how women in larger bodies are being treated by the medical profession is just NOT OK. Women are being told that their vagina is “too fat to give birth”, that they won’t live to see their babies grow up, that they need to lose weight! The fact is, most women in larger bodies have healthy pregnancies and births, but are having the bejeezus scared out of them with some seriously odious threats. Reclaiming your body and your power is possible. It’s time to take your body sovereignty back!! Show Notes Hilary and Dana, anti-diet health professionals from Be Nourished, are utterly fired up about the never ending pressure that diet culture puts on women at vulnerable times of our lives, particularly with regards to fertility, pregnancy, and birth. They were invited to speak at a conference where they could talk about body positivity and managing risk in pregnancy. Whilst an awesome and much needed topic, they were the only speakers to talk about weight stigma. In the medical community there is some acknowledgment that weight stigma impacts health, but the vast majority of professionals are seeing weight stigma as a barrier to losing weight, which is just not reflective of a deep understanding of these issues. Stigma itself affects health, greatly, and this is not being researched nearly enough. Multiple sources of oppression intersect in pregnancy. Women are of course oppressed in general in a patriarchal society. Women of colour, and women in larger bodies who are of colour, suffer the most from these structural oppressions. Women who experience stigma can have a harder time giving birth, because of the stigma, not their weight alone. The history of gynaecology is implicitly racist and sexist. Early experiments in gynaecology were performed on Black women without anaesthetic, as it was believed they could not feel pain as much as white women. although we own the bodies that are giving birth, we are often told that we are ‘not qualified’ to make choices about our births. The concept of ‘weathering’ is when multiple levels of stigma impact on our bodies. Serena Williams’ experience of birth is reflective of this impact of stigma and the inherent disregard for women’s agency in pregnancy and birth. Higher rates of caesarian sections occur in women with higher BMI’s. But why? How much of this is due to the belief that as a woman in a larger body, you can’t deliver safely? This idea of ‘colouring’ - that when we internalise weight stigma, it colours our decisions and choices. The midwifery model is to view birth as an event, not an emergency. The vast majority of women in larger bodies have successful pregnancies and births. And if something goes wrong, this can be managed most of the time. The actual risks of complications in birth are being exaggerated by statistical buggery. Women are facing systemic discrimination in the area of birth. Women are often told they can’t give birth in their local hospital, in rural & remote Australia they are being flown to hospitals in capital cities. Imagine the impact of this. We are so vulnerable at this time and we need our support networks. Physicians are frequently scaring women and telling them that their weight means they are automatically a high risk pregnancy. This is because many health professionals receive training which views a larger body as a problem or a risk factor. If we believe we are not capable of a birth, this will reflect on outcomes. Once women pick up the idea that the medical professionals will judge their bodies, they will avoid pregnancies in order to avoid judgement, or choose to avoid medical care altogether. Society is messed up and your body is not, medical providers have been given a biased education. It is ok to grill your health professionals in order to assure that you are safe. If you do have a complication during birth, it doesn’t mean you’re a bad person or a bad mother. Resources Mentioned: Find out more about Hilary & Dana at Be Nourished Watch the Being Serena Documentary Nothing dear, you’re not qualified! The article about risks of birth defects in larger women and how statistical buggery is being used to inflate the risk. Fantastic article about how the medical community fat shames mums. This is the one where the woman was told her vagina was ‘too fat’ to give birth. And the awesome comment from Dr Shah. The Australian study on weight bias in maternity care. Awesome FB group for ‘plus size pregnancy’ Help with diabetes through a weight inclusive lens - Megrette Fletcher

Pregnancy