Podcasts about tpot

Are you charging enough in private practice, or does guilt keep getting in the way? In this episode, Gordon is joined by Bianca Hughes, LPC, therapist, speaker, mentor, and founder of Authentically BU and the Soulful Clinician Collective. Bianca shares how she moved from hospital work into private practice and the mindset shifts that helped her build a career that feels aligned, sustainable, and authentic. Gordon and Bianca talk about money mindset, imposter syndrome, marketing, confidence, and why therapists need to see themselves as both clinicians and business owners. Bianca also shares why it's important to respect the value of your license, ask for help, find community, and do your own personal work along the way. If you've ever struggled with charging your worth, owning your value, or building a private practice without burning out, this conversation is for you. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Subscribe to YouTube Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Follow us on Instagram Meet Bianca Hughes Bianca Hughes, LPC is a therapist, speaker, mentor, and founder of Authentically BU and the Soulful Clinician Collective. As a Licensed Professional Counselor in Georgia with more than 10 years of experience, Bianca is passionate about helping ambitious mental health clinicians build careers that feel aligned, authentic, and sustainable. Known as a "Soul Aligner," Bianca guides newer clinicians through the challenges of licensure, job searches, salary negotiation, confidence, and career clarity. Through heart-centered community and mentorship, she helps therapists move beyond uncertainty and create a path that honors both their professional goals and their true selves. Bianca has built a thriving private practice rooted in her values, proving that clinicians do not have to chase hustle culture to be successful. Her work has earned recognition, including Richmont Graduate University's 2024 Alumni of the Year award, and she has spoken for conferences and organizations, including Amazon. She has also hosted two podcasts and appeared on more than 37 podcasts as a trusted voice in the mental health field. Therapy Website Instagram LinkedIn Threads Soulful Clinician Collective Website Threads Instagram YouTube Free Quiz

In this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Phebe Brako for a really thoughtful conversation about what it means to make therapy more culturally responsive. So many of the clinical theories we learn were developed through a Western lens, and while those theories can be helpful, they don't always fit every client, every family system, or every cultural background. Dr. Phebe talks about why therapists need to examine their own worldview, stay curious about their clients' lived experiences, and be willing to adapt the models they use in the therapy room. We talk about culture, family systems, CBT, attachment, mindfulness, and why good therapy is not one-size-fits-all. This is such an important reminder that culturally responsive care is not a box to check. It is an ongoing commitment to learning, listening, and doing the work. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Subscribe to YouTube Watch on YouTube Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Follow us on Instagram Meet Dr. Phebe Brako Phebe Brako, LMFT, LMHC, NCC, is a licensed therapist, educator, speaker, and host of Between Two Worlds with Dr. Phebe. She is the Founder and CEO of 253 Therapy and Consult, a group therapy practice based in University Place, Washington. Phebe's work focuses on culturally responsive therapy and the ways traditional clinical theories can be adapted to better serve Black, Brown, Indigenous, and other communities of color. She is also passionate about supporting the next generation of therapists through supervision, training, and consultation. Website Instagram Facebook LinkedIn 253 Therapy Summer Training Institute

Private practice has changed a LOT over the last few years… and therapists are still trying to figure out what comes next. In this episode, Gordon talks with Lex E. Santi about the evolution of therapy after telehealth, online platforms, insurance shifts, and changing client expectations. They dive into why more clinicians are entering private practice, why clients still crave in-person connection, and how companies like BetterHelp, Alma, and Headway are reshaping the profession. They also explore the pressure therapists feel to market themselves, build niches, and create an online presence in a rapidly changing industry. Toward the end of the conversation, Lex shares how writing, narrative therapy, mindfulness, and storytelling intersect in his clinical work and creative life. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Subscribe to YouTube Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Follow us on Instagram Meet Lex E Santí Lex Enrico Santí is a therapist, clinical supervisor, and the founder of A Key Therapy PLLC, where he works at the intersection of evidence-based practice and the deeper human questions that bring people into therapy in the first place. Trained as a licensed clinical social worker and currently completing his doctorate at the University of Kentucky, Lex brings a grounded, integrative approach to his work — drawing on modalities like CBT, ACT, and mindfulness alongside his own framework for healing he calls the AMI model. The son of Cuban immigrants and a former Peace Corps volunteer in Romania, Lex carries a lifelong fluency in crossing cultures — literally and emotionally. He speaks three languages and brings that same attunement to difference, displacement, and belonging into his clinical work. In the therapy room, he holds space for individuals navigating anxiety, identity, and the transitions that quietly reshape a life. He also supervises emerging clinicians, teaches workshops on meditation and understanding anxiety, and is building A Key Therapy into a group practice rooted in presence, curiosity, and care. He believes that good therapy — like good writing — is about learning to tell a truer story about yourself. Beyond the therapy room, Lex is a published author with an MFA in Creative Writing from George Mason University — the author of four books of poetry and a collection of short stories and essays. A meditator and someone who thinks seriously about the spiritual dimensions of mental health, he lives in the Finger Lakes region of New York with his family. He is a proud husband, father, and has another child on the way. Website Facebook LinkedIn The Song of the Midnight Rider

Grief is something every one of us will face at some point, and yet most of us have no idea what to say when someone is hurting. In this episode, I'm joined by Shelby Forsythia, a grief coach, author, and host of the Grief Grower podcast. Shelby shares her own story of profound loss and how it shaped the work she does today, helping people navigate grief in a way that actually honors what they are going through. We talk about why so many common phrases miss the mark, what grieving people are really experiencing beneath the surface, and how grief doesn't just affect your emotions, it changes your identity. Shelby also breaks down the three simple phrases that can completely shift how you support someone in pain. If you've ever felt unsure of what to say, or worried about saying the wrong thing, this conversation will give you a clearer path forward. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Subscribe to YouTube Watch on YouTube Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Follow us on Instagram Meet Shelby Forsythia Shelby Forsythia (she/her) is a grief coach, author, and podcast host. In 2020, she founded Life After Loss Academy, an online course and community that has helped dozens of grievers grow and find their way after death, divorce, diagnosis, and other major life transitions. Following her mother's death in 2013, Shelby began calling herself a "student of grief" and now devotes her days to reading, writing, and speaking about loss. Through a combination of mindfulness tools and intuitive, open-ended questions, she guides her clients to welcome grief as a teacher and create meaningful lives that honor and include the heartbreaks they've faced. Her work has been featured in Huffington Post, Bustle, and The Oprah Magazine. Website Grief Grower Podcast Shelby on Instagram

Thinking about starting a private practice in 2026? There's a lot to consider… and it's not as simple as it used to be. In this episode of The Practice of Therapy Podcast, I'm joined by Brandy Mabra, who brings nearly two decades of experience across private practice, corporate healthcare, and entrepreneurship. We dig into what's really happening in the industry right now—from AI and changing business models to profitability and long-term sustainability. If you're wondering whether now is the right time to start (or grow) a practice, this conversation will help you think more strategically about your next move. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Subscribe to YouTube Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Follow us on Instagram Meet Brandy Mabra Brandy Mabra is the CEO of Savvy Clover Coaching & Consulting and a CEO coach for private practice owners in healthcare. Brandy has over two decades of business management and leadership experience. She has worked in diverse business climates and has turned hot mess practices into well-oiled, profitable machines. She has spent her career building, scaling, and leading 9-figure practices and now uses her skill set to help women private practice owners grow their businesses with sustainability and profit in mind. Brandy earned her bachelor's degree from The Ohio State University and a Master's in Health Administration from A.T. Still University. She is a Certified Professional Coach and Master Energy Leadership Practitioner, receiving her credentials from the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching (iPEC). She has been part of the Entrepreneur Leadership Network and has been featured in Forbes, Fast Company, Entrepreneur, PopSugar, Create & Cultivate, and several well-known podcasts. Brandy is also the host of the top-ranked CEO podcast, CEO Conversations: The Private Practice Podcast. She is the founder of Private Practice CEO™, which empowers her clients to fully step into their role as CEO—building practices with streamlined operations and engaged teams that can run without them. Brandy loves to travel and spend time with her family. She believes you can't build a business on fumes—and that CEO breaks are required. Website Instagram The Private Practice Podcast How To Create a CEO Mindset in Private Practice

Thinking about starting a private practice… but feeling unsure where to begin? In this episode, Katie Piura shares the mindset shifts every therapist needs to make before launching (or growing) a successful practice. From burnout in agency work to building something aligned and sustainable, Katie breaks down the real challenges therapists face and why being a great clinician isn't always enough. We also get into the business side of private practice that grad school never taught you, including money mindset, marketing, and why asking for help might be the most important step you take. If you've been thinking about private practice but feel stuck, overwhelmed, or unsure... this conversation is for you. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Subscribe to YouTube Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Follow us on Instagram Meet Katie Piura She is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker with over 10 years of experience in behavioral health, specializing in culturally competent mental health care, trauma-informed care, emotional wellness, and child, adolescent, and young adult populations. As a bilingual clinician and trainer, she has led workshops, courses, and media education segments across a range of settings—from Latin media outlets to universities. Her work centers on serving diverse communities, with a focus on first- and second-generation immigrants, Latinx populations, and youth. She provides accessible, evidence-based education in both English and Spanish. The Private Practice Start Program Registration Instagram Website  

What if the thing keeping your clients stuck isn't what they're talking about… but what they're avoiding feeling? In this episode, I'm joined by Tanya Dantus, and we dive into a really practical way of helping clients move through what's actually underneath the surface. Tanya shares her RIFRA Method, which stands for Root, Impact, Feel, Reflect, and Act, and how this process helps clients stop intellectualizing and start creating real change. We talk about why so many people struggle to access their emotions, how that shows up in therapy, and what it looks like to guide someone through it in a way that feels safe and doable. There's also a great conversation around boundaries, validation, and how early patterns continue to show up in work and relationships. If you've ever felt like your clients understand their issues but still feel stuck, this one will give you a different lens and some practical tools you can start using right away. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Subscribe to YouTube Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Follow us on Instagram Meet Tanya Dantus, LMFT, SEP Tanya Dantus is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Somatic Experiencing Practitioner who specializes in working with high-functioning women navigating relationship patterns, people-pleasing, and emotional disconnection. Her work integrates relational therapy, depth psychology, and somatic approaches to help clients move beyond insight into lasting, embodied change. She is the creator of the RIFRA Method, a framework that helps clients understand the roots of their patterns, process emotional experience, and take aligned action. She is also the author of The Power of No, which brings this work to a wider audience of women ready to reclaim their voice, safety, and self-trust. Website Instagram LinkedIn

Thinking about taking insurance in your private practice or trying to figure out a better way to handle out-of-network clients? This is one of those decisions that almost every therapist wrestles with at some point. On one hand, insurance can help fill your caseload and make therapy more accessible. On the other hand, the admin work, lower reimbursement rates, and constant back and forth can leave you feeling stretched thin and frustrated. In this episode, I'm joined by Mark Florian, founder of Deputy Care, and we get into what is really happening behind the scenes with insurance, superbills, and out of network billing. We talk about why so many therapists start on insurance panels and then eventually want to move away from them, and what makes that transition so difficult. We also unpack the hidden friction in the system, from denied claims to clients struggling to get reimbursed, and how all of that can impact both your income and your clients' ability to stay in therapy. If you've ever felt stuck between wanting to help more people and wanting to build a sustainable private practice, this conversation will give you a lot to think about. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Subscribe to YouTube Watch on YouTube Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Meet Mark Florian Mark Florian is the Founder of Deputy Care, a platform dedicated to helping private-pay clinicians increase patient retention by eliminating the "administrative dread" of insurance. With over 15 years of experience building the technological "plumbing" of healthcare, Mark has served as the CTO of Advekit and was an early engineering leader at Zocdoc. Today, he is on a mission to "kill the superbill," replacing outdated PDF receipts with automated "payment floating" technology that allows patients to access their out-of-network benefits instantly. Mark's unique perspective sits at the intersection of high-scale health tech and the deeply personal relationship between therapist and client. LinkedIn Deputy Care

Private pay versus insurance is one of the biggest decisions therapists face, and honestly, it's also one of the most misunderstood. In this episode, we're breaking down what therapists often get wrong when thinking about these two models. It's not just about money or convenience. It's about how you want to run your practice, who you want to serve, and where you're willing to spend your time and energy. If you've been going back and forth on whether to take insurance, go private pay, or try a hybrid approach, this conversation will help you think about it in a much clearer way. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Subscribe to YouTube Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Follow us on Instagram Meet Avivit Fisher Avivit Fisher is a marketing strategist and the founder of REdD Strategy, a boutique consultancy that helps therapists and private practice owners attract private-pay clients through clear positioning, ethical marketing, and sustainable systems. With over a decade of experience in brand strategy and healthcare marketing, she works with clinicians nationwide to build practices that stand out, grow intentionally, and align with their values. The State of Private Pay Therapy Practices REdD Strategy on LinkedIn

What happens when you open the floor and let your audience ask anything? That's exactly what we did in this episode, and the questions did not disappoint. We're diving into the big ones therapists are quietly asking right now. Is AI going to replace us? Are companies like BetterHelp helping or hurting the field? And how do you actually stand out when clients can talk to a chatbot instead of a human? I'm sharing my honest thoughts on where all of this is headed, what most therapists are getting wrong about AI, and why the human connection in therapy still matters more than ever. If you've been feeling unsure, frustrated, or even a little threatened by the changes happening in our industry, this episode will help you step back, rethink the problem, and approach it with clarity instead of fear. Plus, I'm answering real listener questions and giving you practical ways to navigate it all as a practice owner. This is one of those conversations that might challenge how you've been thinking about the future of therapy. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Rethinking Depression | Hidden Brain Podcast Subscribe on YouTube Watch on YouTube Wealth & Worth Within   CEO Financial Clarity Corner Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network

Most of us know the feeling. You pick up your phone to check one thing and suddenly twenty minutes have disappeared. For many people, this has become a daily pattern, and it is starting to show up more and more in therapy sessions. In this episode, I sit down with Eli Singer to talk about digital overwhelm and the complicated relationship many of us have with our phones and devices. Eli has spent years working in the digital world, including building one of the early social media agencies in North America. After stepping away from that work, he began focusing on helping people develop healthier relationships with technology. We talk about why so many people feel stuck when it comes to changing their phone habits, and why the issue often has less to do with willpower and more to do with confidence. Eli also shares his Offline Now Matrix, a simple framework that helps people understand where they are in their relationship with technology and what kind of support they might need to make a change. We also get into how these issues show up in therapy, the difference between habit and deeper emotional drivers behind phone use, and why digital overwhelm is becoming an important area for therapists and coaches to pay attention to. If you have clients who struggle with screen time, digital burnout, or feeling constantly tethered to their devices, this conversation will give you a helpful way to start thinking about it. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Wealth & Worth Within   CEO Financial Clarity Corner Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook Meet Eli Singer Eli Singer is a Toronto-based founder, coach, and author focused on digital wellbeing. After years in digital marketing, he built Offline.now to help people and families reduce digital overwhelm without detox extremes. His work centers on a shame-free framework called the Offline.now Matrix and a directory of digital wellness professionals. Website LinkedIn

Marketing can feel uncomfortable for a lot of therapists. Most of us were trained to be neutral, private, and to keep the focus on the client. So when someone tells you that you need to show up on social media or talk about your work publicly, it can feel a little strange. But visibility matters more than ever when it comes to building a private practice. In this episode, I'm joined by Jazzmyn Proctor, a therapist, podcaster, and marketing mentor who helps clinicians show up online in ways that feel authentic and sustainable. Jazzmyn shares how she started building her presence while still in grad school and how social media became a natural way to grow her practice and connect with the right clients. We talk about the tension many therapists feel between being a "blank slate" and being visible online, how to find a marketing style that fits your strengths, and why you do not have to be everywhere to grow your practice. If social media has ever felt intimidating or overwhelming, this conversation will give you a practical and realistic way to think about marketing your work. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube Wealth & Worth Within   CEO Financial Clarity Corner Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Meet Jazzmyn Proctor, M.S., LGPC, NCC, CTP Jazzmyn Proctor, M.S., LGPC, NCC, CTP, is a mental health therapist specializing in trauma-informed, attachment-based therapy under the supervision of Dr. Jennifer Kaufman Walker. She earned her master's degree from Hood College. During her time in graduate school, she was actively involved in community initiatives, including serving on the board of directors for Annapolis Pride. Jazzmyn believes strongly in working to create meaningful change both inside and outside of the therapy room. Website Instagram

Couples therapy can be some of the most rewarding work we do as therapists, but it can also be one of the most challenging. Many couples don't reach out for help until things feel like they're falling apart. By the time they sit down in your office, there are often years of resentment, hurt, and miscommunication built up beneath the surface. In this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Wyatt Fisher, a psychologist and couples therapist who has spent years refining his approach to helping couples work through those deeper issues. Wyatt shares how his own personal and professional experiences shaped his work with couples and why he eventually moved away from the traditional weekly therapy model. We talk about the power of marriage intensives, how addressing resentments first can change the entire course of therapy, and some of the practical tools he uses to help couples rebuild connection and accountability. Wyatt also shares how he's structured his practice to include intensives, coaching, classes, and conferences to create a more comprehensive model for helping couples. If you work with couples or have ever wondered how to structure therapy so couples can make real progress faster, I think you'll find this conversation really interesting. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Wealth & Worth Within   CEO Financial Clarity Corner Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Meet Dr. Wyatt Fisher Dr. Wyatt Fisher is a licensed psychologist who has specialized in marriage counseling since 2004. He holds a master's and doctorate in clinical psychology and helps couples repair their relationships through practical tools and structured approaches to resolving resentment and rebuilding connection. Dr. Fisher's passion for helping couples began after experiencing his parents' divorce as a child and later navigating significant challenges in his own marriage. Through years of intentional work and healing, he and his wife rebuilt their relationship, which now informs both his personal and professional perspective on marriage. In addition to his private practice, Dr. Fisher hosts the Dr. Wyatt Marriage Podcast, where he shares practical advice and strategies to help couples build stronger, healthier relationships. Website Instagram Facebook

If you've ever thought about offering couples therapy in your private practice but felt intimidated by the complexity of it, you're going to love this conversation. In this episode, I'm joined by Kiana and Andrew Joyner, a married duo who run their practice together and specialize in couples work. Kiana is a licensed therapist, and Andrew is a certified professional coach, and together they bring a really unique dynamic into the therapy room. We talk about what it actually looks like to do couples counseling as a husband and wife team, how they divide roles between therapy and coaching, and why communication is still the number one issue couples bring to the table. They also share how Facebook groups have become one of their biggest referral sources and how they positioned themselves in a niche that still sets them apart. If you're curious about building a couples niche, partnering with your spouse in private practice, or simply refining your approach to couples work, there are a lot of practical takeaways in this one. And if couples therapy feels like a lot to hold on your own, you might just be inspired by what's possible when you do not have to do it alone. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Watch on YouTube Wealth & Worth Within   CEO Financial Clarity Corner Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Meet Kiana Joyner, MSW, LCSW, LICSW & Andrew Joyner, CPC, SHRM-CP Kiana and Andrew Joyner are a therapist–coach duo helping individuals and couples build clarity, communication, and accountability through a culturally aligned blend of therapy, coaching, and lived experience. As Certified Wealth Educators, they also address how financial stress and values-based decision-making impact relationships, guiding clients toward sustainable emotional and relational health. Kiana Joyner, LCSW, is a licensed therapist specializing in grief, trauma, emotional wellness, and relationship dynamics. As a Certified Wealth Educator, she also helps clients navigate the emotional and relational impact of financial stress with clarity, compassion, and accountability. Andrew Joyner is a certified coach and former corporate HR leader specializing in communication, accountability, and conflict resolution. As a Certified Wealth Educator, he helps clients navigate financial conversations and decisions with clarity, structure, and values-based intentions. Website Facebook Instagram

In “The Cost of Truth,” Vince Fakhoury Horn speaks with Daniel Klein—a former religious Zionist settler turned outspoken critic of the ideology—about dehumanization, self-forgiveness, and the courage required to speak truth at the risk of losing everything (except one's humanity).

If you've ever thought, "There has to be a way to make money in my private practice besides just seeing more clients," this episode is for you. In this conversation, I'm joined by Jenny Melrose, host of the Practice to Profit podcast, and we dive into what it really looks like to diversify your income as a therapist. We talk about moving from one-to-one work into one-to-many offers, creating resources based on the same questions your clients ask over and over, and building income streams that do not require you to be in the therapy room 40 hours a week. Jenny shares practical ideas like workshops, group programs, retreats, train-the-trainer models, and digital products. We also talk about the importance of growing an email list, using SEO the right way, and how AI can help you create content faster without losing your voice. If you are curious about passive income, scaling your expertise, or simply building a private practice that works for your life instead of running it, you will get a lot out of this one. I'm excited for you to meet Jenny and start thinking differently about what is possible in your practice. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Meet Jenny Melrose Jenny Melrose helps entrepreneurs stop spinning their wheels and start building profitable, sustainable businesses. As the host of the Practice to Profit podcast, she teaches business owners how to shift from busy work to strategic action using clear plans, simple metrics, and CEO-level decision making. Her work focuses on turning effort into results, without overwhelm or hustle culture. Website Strategic Growth Plan

Running a private practice usually means you did not set out to become a numbers person. You are trained to help people, not to read profit and loss statements or stress about tax projections. But the reality is this. If you own a practice, you are running a business. In this episode, I sit down with Gretchen Roberts of Red Bike Advisors to talk about the financial side of private practice in a way that feels practical and doable. We unpack how to use your financial reports as a management tool, what healthy profit margins actually look like, and the payroll mistakes that can quietly drain your profit. We also talk about cash flow and why it is what truly keeps the doors open, especially during the ups and downs that come with business ownership. Since we are in tax season, we cover common tax mistakes, why taxes should not be a once-a-year event, and how to avoid those painful surprises at filing time. If you have ever avoided looking at your numbers or felt unsure about what they are telling you, this conversation will help you think more like a business owner. Your practice needs financial clarity to stay sustainable. And you deserve a business that supports you, not one that burns you out. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook Meet Gretchen Roberts I'm Gretchen Roberts, CEO of Red Bike Advisors, a national tax, accounting, and advisory firm serving healthcare practices, dental practices, and scaling service businesses that need a truly strategic financial partner. Since 2009, we've helped hundreds of practice owners, including dentists, medical practice owners, chiropractors, physical therapists, veterinarians, and alternative medicine practitioners, simplify their finances, optimize profitability, reduce tax burdens, and build businesses that generate real and lasting wealth. Our mission is to help practice owners move from financial stress to becoming Financially Retired by Design by building a business that funds your life, freedom, and future. As a business owner myself, I bring an operator's mindset that blends real-world experience with deep expertise in practice finance, tax strategy, profitability optimization, and exit readiness. At Red Bike Advisors, we provide year-round partnership to healthcare practices generating one to fifteen million dollars in revenue. Our services include proactive accounting, strategic tax planning, financial advisory, and tax-focused wealth building that eliminates financial guesswork and supports long-term growth and exit readiness. Website LinkedIn

What if chronic pain isn't a sign that your body is broken—but that your nervous system is trying to protect you? In this episode, Dr. Melissa Tiessen, a clinical psychologist and neuroplastic pain specialist, joins the show to unpack a paradigm-shifting way of understanding chronic pain and persistent physical symptoms. Drawing on neuroscience, trauma-informed therapy, and real-world clinical experience, Melissa explains how pain can exist without tissue damage—and why that realization can actually be good news. You'll learn how neuroplastic pain develops, why symptoms can move, change, or intensify without a clear medical cause, and how fear, emotional suppression, and learned nervous system patterns can keep people stuck in cycles of pain and distress. Melissa also shares her own experience with neuroplastic pain, making this conversation deeply human, accessible, and hopeful. Whether you're a therapist, a practice owner, or someone who's been told "you'll just have to live with it," this episode offers a compassionate and science-backed framework for understanding pain, anxiety, and the body's threat response—and what it really means to get unstuck. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Meet Dr. Melissa Tiessen Dr. Melissa Tiessen is a clinical psychologist in private practice, serving clients virtually throughout Ontario, Canada. Her practice focuses on the treatment of chronic pain and other chronic neuroplastic symptoms. She is passionate about health professional education and well-being, and is also the co-founder of Intentional Therapist, a continuing education initiative designed to support mental health therapists in protecting and reclaiming their own well-being. She co-hosts the podcast Putting You In Your Schedule and can be found on LinkedIn quietly creating a self-care revolution. Learn more about Dr. Tiessen: https://linktr.ee/drmelissatiessen

What if couples therapy isn't about fixing the other person at all? In this episode, Gordon sits down with Erin Valente, a couples therapist based in Los Angeles, to talk about one of the most common mistakes couples make when they come to therapy—and why real change doesn't live with one partner, but in the relationship itself. They explore why couples work can feel intimidating for therapists, how regulation and co-regulation shape meaningful conversations, and what it really takes to help couples move out of blame and into connection. Erin also shares how she's structured her private practice to avoid burnout, including her work with ketamine-assisted therapy, groups, and coaching. Whether you work with couples, are curious about relationship dynamics, or are thinking about new ways to diversify your practice, this episode offers a grounded, thoughtful look at what healing in relationships actually looks like. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Meet Erin Valente Erin Valente is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist specializing in trauma-focused therapy for individuals and couples. With advanced training in EMDR, Psychedelic-Assisted Therapy, and somatic and narrative therapy, Erin helps clients reconnect with their inner voice and move toward healing, growth, and authentic connection. A lifelong student of the human experience, Erin explores the intersections of psychology, emotion, and personal wisdom. She believes that while psychology offers valuable direction, true healing emerges when we integrate our own understanding of who we are and what we need. Her approach centers on helping individuals and couples rediscover alignment, resilience, and self-compassion as they navigate life's inevitable challenges—heartbreak, love, loss, and transformation. Drawing from her background in trauma-informed therapy, domestic violence work, and somatic awareness, Erin creates a deeply resonant therapeutic experience that empowers lasting change. She has been featured on multiple podcasts, hosts her own show, and is launching a group coaching program designed to help individuals and couples cultivate passionate, healthy relationships that support the healing of the human experience. Website Instagram Private Podcast: Healing the Human Experience

In today's episode, I'm excited to introduce you to Tobin Richardson, the founder of a platform called Save the Therapist. When I first learned about what Tobin is building, I knew this was something many of you would want to hear about. Continuing education is a requirement for all of us, but let's be honest. It can be expensive, time-consuming, and sometimes hard to fit into an already full schedule. Tobin saw that problem firsthand and decided to do something about it. He created a platform that offers high-quality, accredited continuing education for therapists that is completely free. In this conversation, Tobin shares his background in counselor education, what led him to start Save the Therapist, and how the platform works. We talk about why the podcast format is such a powerful way to learn, how therapists can earn CE credits without added financial pressure, and why accessibility in education matters now more than ever. If you've ever felt overwhelmed by the cost or logistics of earning CE credits, or if you're simply looking for a more practical and user-friendly way to keep learning as a clinician, I think you'll really enjoy this episode. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook  Ten Sessions Meet Tobin Richardson, EdD, NCC Tobin Richardson, EdD, NCC, is a counselor educator with a decade of experience building and delivering innovative educational resources to therapists in both community mental health and large VC-backed provider organizations. Since launching in early 2025, his NPR-style CE platform, Save the Therapist, has garnered over 4,000 therapist registrants and more than 7,000 course completions. Website Instagram

There are some conversations you record where you know right away that they're going to land differently. In today's episode, I sit down with Dr. Julie Merriman, a therapist, professor, and longtime advocate for helpers who are quietly burning out. We talk about something that hits close to home for many of us in this profession: what happens when we're really good at helping everyone else, but don't know how to receive ourselves. Julie shares how so many therapists become what she calls "floating heads of competence." We're full of knowledge, skill, and clinical insight, yet deeply disconnected from our bodies, our needs, and our sense of purpose beyond performance. We talk honestly about burnout, compassion fatigue, money, boundaries, nervous system regulation, and why private practice itself isn't what burns us out. Disconnection is. This isn't a conversation about working harder or pushing through. It's about staying human in a profession that asks a lot of us, and learning how to stay in it without losing ourselves. If you've ever felt tired in a way that rest doesn't fix, this episode is for you. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook Meet Dr. Julie Merriman Dr. Julie Merriman is a licensed professional counselor, counselor educator, professor, and author, and the voice behind From Burnout to Freedom—a movement helping high-achieving women in healthcare over 50 heal from burnout and reclaim their freedom. With more than 30 years of experience in clinical practice and counselor education, Dr. Merriman has trained hundreds of emerging therapists, served as an associate dean, department director, and clinical coordinator, and led CACREP accreditation work. Her scholarship and teaching span compassion fatigue, burnout, trauma-informed care, polyvagal theory, spiritual integration, and the lived experience of long-term helpers. After experiencing a profound, career-shaping burnout that ultimately contributed to her breast cancer diagnosis, Dr. Merriman rebuilt her life and work from the inside out. Today, she blends neuroscience, embodiment practices, and decades of clinical wisdom to guide women healers through identity transitions, emotional exhaustion, and the "scorched earth" season that often arrives after 50. Her podcast, From Burnout to Freedom, offers honest conversations and research-backed strategies for women who have spent a lifetime caring for everyone else and are finally ready to reclaim creativity, joy, and purpose. Dr. Merriman brings a relatable, deeply human presence to every interview. She combines academic rigor with ranch-life storytelling, humor, and a fierce commitment to helping helpers heal. Website Instagram YouTube LinkedIn Facebook

If you've ever found yourself thinking, "Why is this client so hard to reach?" or "Why does every conversation turn into a power struggle?" this episode is for you. Today, I'm joined by Dr. Anthony Mazzella, a psychoanalyst who specializes in working with narcissistic dynamics. We go far beyond surface-level conversations about narcissism. This isn't about labels, buzzwords, or quick fixes. It's about what's actually happening underneath the behavior and what truly helps. We talk about why arguing over "reality" never works, why confrontation often backfires, and how curiosity, containment, and staying with the process can completely change the way therapists work with narcissistic clients and how partners survive narcissistic relationships. Whether you're a therapist sitting with these dynamics in the room, a supervisor guiding clinicians through complex cases, or someone trying to understand a relationship that feels confusing and exhausting, this conversation offers a grounded and compassionate framework for understanding narcissism. This is one of those episodes that stays with you, and I'm really glad to share it with you today. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook Meet Dr. Mazzella As a leader and expert in the field, Dr. Mazzella holds various clinical positions, including, but not limited to, treating patients in his private practice, training professionals at two post-graduate training institutes, conducting research, and lecturing across the country. While his focus with his patients is psychodynamic in nature, his main goals are to build a trusting relationship and help each patient reduce the frequency and intensity of their emotionally painful thoughts and suffering. He helps his patients overcome both acute and long-standing problems that may be more embedded in their personality. Website Instagram Podcast Facebook LinkedIn YouTube

As we step into a new year, many of us feel it—that quiet but persistent pressure to do more, fix more, and somehow have everything figured out right now. New goals, new systems, bigger numbers—and for practice owners, that pressure can feel especially heavy and often pretty lonely. In today's episode, I want to invite you to think about January differently—not as a month for pushing harder or becoming more efficient, but as a chance to slow down and get honest about what you can actually hold. Drawing on Barbara Brown Taylor's Home by Another Way and Oliver Burkeman's 4,000 Weeks, we'll talk about burnout, the efficiency trap, and why things don't magically get easier "once we get there." This conversation is about reconnecting with your why, redefining what growth really means, and considering what it might look like to go home by another way this year—one that creates more space, alignment, and sustainability in your practice and your life. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook Home By Another Way Four Thousand Weeks

I am so excited for today's episode because we're diving into one of the most transformative tools in private practice right now: AI. And joining me is someone who has been living at the intersection of mental health, creativity, and digital marketing for nearly two decades—Greg Goodman of Goodman Creatives. Greg isn't a therapist, but his story is rooted deeply in the world of mental health. Inspired by his father's work as a clinician, he built a career helping therapists share their voice, grow their practices, and create meaningful impact through smart, authentic marketing. Today, he runs an international creative agency that exists to support helpers—and now he's leaning all the way into how AI can make marketing more accessible than ever. In our conversation, Greg and I talk about the real, practical ways therapists can use AI to save time, generate powerful copy, create content with confidence, and stand out in a growing field. We also explore the ethical concerns around AI, the importance of keeping our humanity in the process, and how to train AI to actually sound like you. If you've been curious—or even hesitant—about how AI fits into your private practice, this episode is going to open your eyes to what's possible. Greg brings a blend of heart, tech wisdom, and decades of industry experience, and I can't wait for you to learn from him. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook Meet Greg Goodman Greg Goodman is a marketing and web design expert with two decades of experience helping therapists grow thriving practices. With a deep understanding of the mental health industry, Greg specializes in creating authentic, client-centered marketing strategies that resonate with both therapists and the people they serve. His passion for visual storytelling plays a key role in his work, as he believes powerful imagery can make a therapist's message more relatable and emotionally impactful. Driven by a calling to "help the helpers," Greg's dream is to positively impact the mental health of more than 1,000,000 people around the world. As the founder of Goodman Creatives, he combines artistry and strategy through thoughtful web design, empathetic copywriting, ethical AI, and photographic storytelling—helping therapists feel confident, reduce overwhelm, and build practices that thrive long term. Website Facebook Instagram  

If you've ever ended a workday wondering, "Where did all my time go?"—this episode is going to change the way you run your business. In today's conversation, I sit down with executive coach Samantha Perinello, a powerhouse in helping business owners reclaim their time, streamline their operations, and finally build the kind of practice that doesn't rely on them for every little task. Samantha has a remarkable track record—her clients regularly get back 10 to 14 hours every single week—and she's here to break down exactly how that happens. We dive into the real reasons so many private practice owners feel overwhelmed, why multitasking is quietly sabotaging your productivity, and how simple habits like time audits, brain dumps, and strategic delegation can completely shift the way you work. If you've been craving more freedom, more focus, and more room to actually grow your business (instead of just keeping it afloat), this is an episode you don't want to miss. Samantha's insights are practical, energizing, and genuinely transformative. Tune in and learn how to take back control of your time—and your practice. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook Meet Samantha Parrinello Samantha Parrinello is recognized as a leading executive coach, specializing in helping top-performing executives and entrepreneurs reclaim their most valuable resource—time. With a proven track record of transforming leaders from overwhelmed to optimized, Samantha blends decades of senior leadership experience with cutting-edge performance frameworks. Her clients regularly regain 10–20 hours a week while scaling their businesses faster and living with more freedom. Known as the master of time management and optimization, Samantha has become the go-to coach for leaders who want to multiply their impact without sacrificing their lives outside of work. LinkedIn Website Wealth Unfiltered 5 Essential Strategies for Entrepreneurs to Achieve 10-Figure Success

In today's episode of The Practice of Therapy Podcast, I'm excited to introduce you to someone who made a big impact on me at the Wise Practice Conference—Derrick Boger. Derrick is a licensed clinical mental health counselor, military veteran, former firefighter, and the founder of Transformation Christian Counseling in Greensboro, North Carolina. His journey into the therapy world is rooted in a lifelong commitment to serving others, and you'll hear that passion come through in every part of our conversation. In this episode, Derrick and I dive deep into what it really looks like to support men in therapy, why emotional safety is the key to communication, and how vulnerability becomes a powerful tool for healing. We also explore the unique challenges men face when opening up, the importance of trust in relationships, and how faith and emotional intelligence can guide meaningful transformation. Whether you work with men, couples, or faith-based clients—or you simply want to listen in on a heartfelt conversation about connection and healing—I think you'll find Derrick's insights both inspiring and grounding. I'm thrilled to share this conversation with you. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook Meet Derrick Boger, LCMHCA, NCC Derrick Boger is an LCMHCA and the founder of Transformation Christian Counseling in Greensboro, NC. Before launching his private practice, he served eight years in the military, ten years as a firefighter, and over twenty years in church leadership. Derrick integrates faith-based and evidence-based approaches to help individuals and couples heal, grow, and thrive. He is passionate about supporting men, women, and marriages in experiencing true transformation from the inside out. Website LinkedIn Facebook

Welcome back to the Practice of Therapy Podcast! I'm Gordon Brewer, and I am so glad you're here today because we're diving into a topic that every private practice owner needs to be thinking about—whether you're brand new or decades into the work. I'm thrilled to welcome back my friend and financial powerhouse, Carla Titus. Every time Carla joins us, she brings clarity, strategy, and a whole lot of honesty about what it really takes to run a profitable, sustainable practice. And today, we're talking about something most of us don't think about until we're exhausted, burned out, or feeling stuck: your exit plan. Whether you want to sell someday, scale back, hand things off to a leadership team, or simply make your practice run like a well-oiled machine, this conversation is going to challenge the way you think about ownership, profitability, and long-term planning. Carla and I dig into what it means to build a practice that's always exit-ready—not because you're leaving tomorrow, but because an exit-ready practice is a healthy, thriving, profitable practice today. This is one of those episodes that will shift your mindset and give you real-world steps to start strengthening your financial foundation. So let's jump in. Carla Titus is a finance expert with over 15 years of combined corporate financial planning, analysis, strategy, and online business experience. She provides fractional CFO services and financial consulting to business owners looking to grow their businesses profitably. Her priorities for her clients are to help them grow profits, have cash in the bank, and pay themselves well so they can build personal wealth. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook Meet Carla Titus Carla Titus is a finance expert with over 15 years of combined corporate financial planning, analysis, strategy, and online business experience. She provides fractional CFO services and financial consulting to business owners looking to grow their businesses profitably. Her priorities for her clients are to help them grow profits, have cash in the bank, and pay themselves well so they can build personal wealth. Carla on TPOT  Website Facebook Instagram LinkedIn YouTube Projections & Forecasting Services

Today's episode is one I've been looking forward to for a long time. We're diving into a topic that doesn't get talked about nearly enough in our field—men's mental health—and why so many traditional therapy approaches miss the mark when it comes to helping men heal. My guest is Marc Azoulay, LPC, LAC, CGP, ACS—the founder of Men's Therapy Online and host of The Men's Therapy Podcast. Marc brings a powerful blend of psychoanalysis, neuroscience, and Buddhism to his work, and he's built an incredible community that helps men get real, get connected, and get results. In this conversation, we're breaking down what it actually takes to build trust and respect with male clients, why "safety" isn't always the right starting point, and how we as therapists can better support men in becoming the best versions of themselves. Marc also shares some fantastic insights on private practice growth, niching boldly, and finding your authentic voice as a clinician. This one's packed with wisdom and heart—so stay tuned, you're really going to enjoy it. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook Meet Marc Azoulay LPC, LAC, CGP, ACS Marc Azoulay, LPC, LAC, CGP, ACS, is the founder of Men's Therapy Online, a community and healing hub for men who want to get back on their feet or take their lives to the next level. With the help of his team of licensed clinicians, he provides ongoing men's groups, individual counseling, and powerful wilderness retreats for members. With a background in psychoanalysis, neuroscience, and Buddhism, Marc helps men uncover and destroy the unconscious barriers that hold them back. His mission is to help men become the best versions of themselves and truly show up for their lives, relationships, and communities. Website YouTube Facebook LinkedIn MTO LinkedIn Twitter Instagram Free Modern Man Playbook

​​In today's episode, I am sitting down with Darshana Avila for a truly fascinating and important conversation about the intersection of sexuality, somatic work, and trauma healing. As therapists, we often talk about the mind and body connection, but many of us shy away from exploring how that connection relates to our clients' sexuality, intimacy, and sense of pleasure. Darshana brings a deeply trauma-informed and culturally sensitive approach to this work, helping clients reconnect with their bodies, navigate consent, and move beyond shame into embodied wholeness. In our discussion, we explore what sexological bodywork actually looks like, how it differs from traditional sex therapy, and why somatic awareness is essential for both healing trauma and deepening intimacy. We also touch on how therapists can hold space for these conversations within private practice and why it is so important to bring curiosity, consent, and compassion to this part of the human experience. This is one of those episodes that might stretch your perspective a bit, and that is a good thing. I am so grateful to Darshana for sharing her wisdom, and I think you will walk away with a richer understanding of how to support your clients and yourself in a more embodied and holistic way. In This Episode, We Cover: How Darshana's personal journey led her to somatic and erotic healing work The difference between sexological bodywork and traditional sex therapy Why somatic awareness is essential for trauma healing and intimacy What it means to truly "come home to your body" How consent goes beyond just saying yes or no The role of the nervous system in safety, pleasure, and connection How therapists can introduce somatic principles in private practice Understanding erotic wholeness and how it expands our idea of healing The impact of shame and cultural conditioning around sexuality Why pleasure and safety are part of the same healing process Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook Meet Darshana Avila Darshana Avila is a trauma-informed somatic sex & intimacy practitioner (SEP, CSB) who guides people through embodied journeys of erotic wholeness. Her work blends nervous-system regulation, somatic awareness, consent-fluency, and relational liberation. Featured on Sex, Love & Goop (Netflix), she supports women, non-binary folks, and couples in reclaiming pleasure, voice, and connection. Website LinkedIn Instagram YouTube

Well, y'all are in for a treat today. My guest, Dr. Jason Branch, brings some serious fire and fresh perspective to this conversation. He's been in the counseling world for over two decades, as a clinician, educator, and entrepreneur, and what I love most about him is how real he gets about the struggles we all face in private practice: imposter syndrome, perfectionism, and finding the courage to just keep showing up. Jason has an incredible way of using analogies that stick: salamanders, gators, and what he calls being D.U.N. - doing things that are different, uncomfortable, and new. It's all about stepping into growth, setting healthy boundaries, and remembering that we're not impostors... we're learners. So if you've ever doubted yourself or wondered whether you belong in the room, this episode is going to challenge and inspire you. Let's dive into this conversation with Dr. Jason Branch. In This Episode, We Talk About: Understanding imposter syndrome in private practice The "Salamander vs. Gator" analogy for growth and boundaries How vulnerability helps us become better therapists and leaders Being D.U.N.—Different, Uncomfortable, and New Overcoming perfectionism and impatience The power of consistency, curiosity, and celebration Embracing authenticity and confidence in your private practice journey Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook Meet Dr. Jason Branch Dr. Jason Branch brings over two decades of expertise in the mental health and counseling profession, transforming lives and advancing the field through his work in higher education, community mental health, city government, corporate settings, and substance abuse treatment facilities. As the Founder and CEO of J. Branch and Associates, a dynamic virtual clinical group practice, Dr. Branch leads a team dedicated to providing high-quality therapy services to adults, couples, and families across Georgia, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. Website Facebook Instagram YouTube 3 Parallels Podcast with Dr. Jason Branch Gator Music Playlist

When I first connected with Wendy Pitts Reeves, I knew she was someone who truly gets it — the ups, downs, and constant balancing act of running a private practice. In this episode, Wendy joins me to share her powerful framework, The Seven Pillars of a Thriving Private Practice, and it's one you'll want to take notes on. Wendy has spent decades building her own successful practice in Tennessee and now helps other therapists do the same through her coaching and podcast, Ideal Practice. In our conversation, we dive into what it takes to build a business that's not just profitable, but purposeful — one that fits who you are and how you want to live. We talk about: Why getting clear on your purpose changes everything How to serve your ideal clients (and enjoy the work again) The importance of solid systems and boundaries Developing a confident money mindset And how your perspective shapes your success This is one of those conversations that reminds us why we do this work — and how to build a practice that truly supports both your clients and your life.

Today's episode is one I've really been looking forward to because we're diving into something that's transforming the way we think about mental health treatment: low-dose ketamine therapy. My guest, Dr. Sharon Niv, is the co-founder of Joyous, a public benefit company helping make this kind of care more accessible and affordable than ever before. Sharon brings a fascinating background in cognitive psychology, meditation, and technology, and she's helping bridge the gap between neuroscience and therapy in a way that's incredibly gentle, safe, and empowering for both clients and clinicians. We'll talk about what makes psycholytic, or low-dose, ketamine different from traditional psychedelic experiences, how it can enhance the therapeutic process, and how you, as a therapist, can get trained to integrate it into your own work. This is one of those conversations that opens your mind to what's possible in therapy, so let's jump in. Resources Mentioned In This Episode Use the promo code "GORDON" to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook Meet Sharon Niv, Ph.D. Dr. Sharon Niv is a cognitive psychologist and co-founder of Joyous Team, a Public Benefit Corporation dedicated to making evidence-based mental health treatments accessible and affordable. Her work bridges the worlds of neuroscience, technology, and therapy with a focus on how scalable, data-driven approaches can enhance emotional well-being. Dr. Niv earned her Ph.D. in Brain and Cognitive Science from the University of Southern California, where she conducted research on EEG biomarkers, neurofeedback, and the neural underpinnings of mood and behavior. She also holds a B.A. in Molecular and Cellular Biology from UC Berkeley and an M.A. in Clinical and Cognitive Psychology from USC. Before founding Joyous, Sharon worked on developing virtual-reality interventions for chronic pain and neurofeedback programs designed to help people improve emotional regulation and resilience. A long-time meditation practitioner, she combines scientific rigor with a deep understanding of mindfulness and experiential learning. Through Joyous, Sharon and her team are pioneering low-dose (psycholytic) ketamine therapy, creating safer, more sustainable pathways for individuals and therapists to experience healing and insight. Her mission is to empower both clinicians and clients with practical tools that promote neuroplasticity, compassion, and mental clarity. The Power of Therapy + Joyous Joyous Substack LinkedIn

I'm so glad to welcome Julie Herres back to the podcast! Julie is the founder of GreenOak Accounting, the host of the Therapy for Your Money Podcast, and the author of Profit First for Therapists. This time, she's joining me to talk about her brand-new Profit First for Therapists Workbook — a hands-on companion to her original book that helps you actually implement the Profit First system in your practice. In this episode, we dig into what it really takes to build a financially sustainable practice. Julie explains how she helps therapists move from confusion to clarity by using simple systems that make it easy to know where your money is going, what's normal for your practice, and how to pay yourself consistently. We also talk about some of the common money mistakes we see in private practice, especially when it comes to paying your team, setting up payroll, or growing too fast without clear financial guardrails. Julie shares the mindset shifts and practical steps that can help you stay profitable and sustainable long-term. You'll hear: How Profit First flips the traditional accounting equation Why your practice should serve your life — not the other way around How to make intentional, values-based decisions with your money What to watch for when hiring or adding new revenue streams How the new workbook helps you troubleshoot and customize Profit First for your unique practice If you've ever wondered, “Am I doing this money thing right?” then this episode will give you a lot of peace of mind. Julie's approach takes the intimidation out of accounting and replaces it with clarity and confidence. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Use the promo code “GORDON” to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook Therapy For Your Money GreenOak Accounting Meet Julie Herres Julie Herres is on a mission to inspire every private practice to be profitable. Over the last several years, that dream has become reality as Julie and her team have helped hundreds of private practice owners take their profit first and gain financial freedom. As the owner of GreenOak Accounting, Julie leads her firm with this goal in mind, providing tax, accounting and Profit First consulting services to private practices across the United States. Julie is also a Certified Profit First Professional, an IRS Enrolled Agent, a speaker and the host of the Therapy For Your Money podcast.

What if private practice wasn't the end goal but the launchpad? In this episode, Gordon talks with Carly Hill, LCSW, business strategist and host of The Thriving Therapreneur Podcast, about how therapists can outgrow the office by adding coaching, creating digital offers, and building freedom-based businesses. Carly shares her journey from burnout to building a seven-figure coaching brand and breaks down exactly how clinicians can protect their license while expanding beyond therapy. You'll learn the key differences between therapy and coaching, how to ethically separate your businesses, and how to market your coaching offers with confidence. In this episode, you'll hear: The real difference between therapy and coaching How to protect your license when adding coaching Why therapists should lead the coaching space How to build multiple income streams beyond private practice Carly's approach to creating freedom, flexibility, and impact Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code “GORDON” to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook Meet Carly Hill, LCSW, Business Coach For Therapists Carly Hill, LCSW, is a business strategist and coach who helps clinicians venture beyond the therapy room and build successful, sustainable online businesses. Through her signature programs and trainings, she teaches everything from understanding the difference between therapy and coachin g to mastering niche clarity, marketing, sales, branding, and mindset. Her mission is simple: to help clinicians impact more lives while creating freedom-based businesses. Before becoming a business coach, Carly worked as a therapist and loved the work she did—but she loved her freedom even more. She longed for time freedom, energy freedom, travel freedom, and financial freedom—something she couldn't fully experience within the traditional therapy model. Seeing so many other therapists facing burnout and financial limitations, Carly began questioning the system that left such highly educated professionals overworked and underpaid. She started a networking group to help fellow therapists combat burnout, which soon evolved into a larger mission: to find real solutions for therapists who wanted more flexibility and fulfillment. Through her own discovery, research, and training in high-ticket group coaching and organic lead generation, Carly developed a proven client attraction system she calls the Modern Marketing Masterplan. This approach allowed her to grow from $0 to consistent six-figure months in record time. Today, Carly's focus is on sharing everything she's learned—empowering therapists to leverage their expertise, attract ideal clients, and design businesses that align with the freedom-filled lives they deserve. Carly believes every therapist has the power to build a business that supports both their purpose and their peace. Learn How To Turn Your Clinical Skills Into A Coaching Business So You Can Earn Back Your Freedom!  Instagram Thriving Therapreneur Podcast

Ops expert Brie Chrisman (CEO, BosCo) shares how to increase profit in private practice without adding more clients, clinicians, or ad spend—by tightening expenses, streamlining workflows, delegating $20 tasks, and optimizing client onboarding. In this episode, you'll learn: Why “profit = revenue − expenses” (and why most owners only push the revenue side) How to reclaim 21+ hours/year with simple email templates The $20 vs. $200 task rule for smarter delegation SOPs that make onboarding, training, and busy-day brain fog easier The #1 lever for growth: client onboarding (lead → consult → paperwork → first session)   Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Use the promo code “GORDON” to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Profit First for Therapists Workbook   Meet Brie Chrisman Brie Chrisman is the founder and CEO of Boss Co, an operations management and growth strategy agency dedicated to supporting mental health private practice owners. With over 15 years of experience in project management and operations, Brie has redefined how businesses can maximize resources and increase profits without adding to the overwhelm that often accompanies entrepreneurship. Her innovative approach has empowered practice owners to streamline operations and lead with intention. A passionate mental health advocate, Brie is committed to fostering a human-first, inclusive environment within the operations world. She believes that making practice owners' lives easier and more fulfilled can create a ripple effect, positively impacting their staff, clients, and beyond. Outside of her work, Brie is a devoted partner to her college sweetheart, a special needs advocate, and a proud mom of two young children. Website Facebook Instagram Brie on LinkedIn Boss Co on LinkedIn

I am thrilled to share this week's episode with you because it's not just any guest joining me—it's my dear friend, Uriah Guilford. Uriah and I have traveled together, dreamed together, and collaborated on countless projects over the years. He's one of the most creative people I know, and today we're diving into something that's changing the way therapists run their practices: AI and the future of intake. If you've ever wondered how to save time, stop drowning in admin work, and create a smoother experience for your clients, you do not want to miss this conversation. Uriah shares how he's blending human support with AI technology to revolutionize the intake process—and how you can start using these tools in your own practice. This episode is full of practical tips, inspiring ideas, and a glimpse into what's possible when we stop trying to do everything ourselves. Trust me, you're going to walk away with new ways to think about your time, your clients, and your business. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code “GORDON” to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Meet Uriah Guilford Uriah Guilford is a licensed therapist and group practice owner. He's also the author of The Productive Practice book and the Head Nerd at Productive Therapist, a virtual assistant company that serves therapists in private practice. Outside of work, Uriah is a technology nerd, a minimalist travel packer, and a rock drummer. Therapy Intake ProProductive Therapist Directory Instagram

I can hardly believe we've reached 400 episodes of The Practice of Therapy Podcast! When I started this show back in 2017, my goal was simple: to share resources, lessons, and encouragement for therapists building their practices. Over the years, I've learned so much (often the hard way), and I've been blessed by the many incredible guests and colleagues who have shared their wisdom here. In this special milestone episode, I've invited friends, past guests, and fellow practice owners to share their #1 tips for success in private practice. You'll hear insights on money, delegation, marketing, networking, self-care, and so much more — all the things that really make a difference in sustaining and growing your practice. You'll hear from voices like: Julie Harris (GreenOak Accounting) on knowing your numbers Uriah Guilford (Productive Therapist) on the power of delegation Chris McDonald (Yoga in the Therapy Room) on building community Whitney Owens (Wise Practice Consulting) on letting go and moving forward And many more trusted colleagues and friends from the PsychCraft Network and beyond! This episode is truly a masterclass — not just in private practice strategy, but in encouragement and support. Whether you're brand new to practice or years into the journey, I know you'll walk away with something meaningful.

Running a private practice is rewarding, but the financial side can feel overwhelming. That is why I am excited to have Kristin Meador, CPA on the show today. Kristin is not only a Certified Public Accountant but also a Profit First Professional who works closely with therapy practice owners across the country. She is here to take the stress out of your numbers and show you how to build a more profitable and sustainable practice. In this episode, you will learn: How to simplify your bookkeeping and actually use your numbers to make decisions Why Profit First works so well for private practice owners A simple system to trim thousands in unnecessary expenses How to confidently set your rates and when to raise them What to consider when paying yourself and your team Get ready for practical and encouraging advice that will help you finally feel confident about your private practice finances. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code “GORDON” to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Meet Kristin Meador Kristin Graduated from The University of Tennessee with her Bachelor's and Master's in Accounting. She became a Certified Public Accountant shortly after and worked tirelessly at a Big 4 accounting firm, earning the promotion of Senior Auditor. After reaching her corporate life threshold, Kristin traveled the world before creating her own firm.  When Kristin founded Gradient Accounting, she was quickly able to fulfill all her passions: being a digital nomad, working as an accountant, and helping fellow small business owners achieve travel dreams of their own.  Along with traveling internationally for about 3 months each year, Kristin loves exploring her hometown of Knoxville, TN, and the beautiful nature of the Great Smoky Mountains. Website LinkedIn Instagram Free Three-Minute Pricing Checkup Tool 

Have you ever tried to calm yourself down during a panic attack - only to find that the very tools you've been taught suddenly don't work? That was the turning point for Caitlin Rose, a performance neuroscience coach and founder of Build Resilience. Her own struggle with trauma and anxiety led her to uncover a hidden truth: it's not just about regulation, it's about capacity. In this episode of The Practice of Therapy Podcast, Caitlin shares how understanding the difference between nervous system regulation and capacity can transform the way therapists support clients - and the way we heal ourselves. In this episode, we talk about: The crucial difference between nervous system regulation and capacity—and why tools don't always work when we need them most Practical ways to expand the window of tolerance through vagal tone, CO₂ tolerance, and vascular flexibility How building nervous system capacity acts as a scaffolding for other modalities like EMDR, brainspotting, and somatic experiencing Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Use the promo code “GORDON” to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Meet Caitlin Rose Caitlin Rose is a trauma consultant and educator dedicated to helping therapists bridge the gap between somatic theory and practical application. With a deep understanding that trauma lives in the body, Caitlin teaches clinicians how to move beyond mechanistic views of regulation into a dynamic of Nervous System Collaboration. Her work focuses on leveling the playing field for trauma survivors, who often live in states of chronic constriction and collapse, by equipping practitioners with tools to support nervous system capacity alongside trauma processing. Through her work at Build Resilience, Caitlin guides therapists in creating conditions where clients can experience agency from the start, build trust and safety directly with their nervous systems, and sustain progress between sessions. She is passionate about transforming the therapeutic process into one that is more efficient, compassionate, and deeply human—for both client and clinician. Caitlin's approach empowers practitioners who want to push the edges of their skills, offering a missing foundation that makes everything else they do more powerful. Rebuilding The Nervous System After Trauma Instagram LinkedIn X

What if the key to filling your private practice isn't more credentials, certifications, or complicated marketing strategies— but a few simple tweaks to your Psychology Today profile? In this episode of the Practice of Therapy Podcast, Gordon sits down with Aaron Price, founder of Therapy Profile Pro, to uncover the hidden power of Psychology Today. With nearly 60% of therapy seekers finding their clinician through this platform, your profile could be the single biggest factor in whether your phone rings—or stays silent. Aaron shares exactly what makes a profile stand out, the common mistakes most therapists don't even realize they're making, and how a 15-second video can completely change the game. Whether you're brand new to private practice or ready to scale your caseload, you'll walk away with practical, proven strategies you can put into action today. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code “GORDON” to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Meet Aaron Price Aaron Price is a marketing expert and software engineer who specializes in building marketing tools for private practice therapists. As the founder of Therapy Profile Pro, Aaron has helped over 1,000 therapists enhance their Psychology Today profiles, refine their professional focus, and attract more of their ideal clients authentically and ethically. Before founding Therapy Profile Pro, Aaron led marketing for multiple education and climate tech companies. He has also been attending therapy himself for the past seven years—a journey that he describes as life-changing. Aaron holds a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science from Duke University. Check out Therapy Profile Pro

Have you been wondering how AI fits into the world of therapy and private practice?  In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Stephanie Thrower—a psychologist, career coach, and AI educator—who's using tech to help therapists expand their impact, streamline their work, and step into new possibilities beyond one-on-one sessions. We're talking practical tools, smart marketing strategies, and how to use AI without losing your voice (or your sanity). Whether you're just getting curious or already experimenting with AI, you're going to walk away inspired and equipped. In this episode, you'll learn: How AI can save you time and energy in private practice What makes good marketing copy (and how AI can help you write it) How to use AI for content creation—without sounding robotic Why therapists should be involved in building the future of AI Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code “GORDON” to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Meet Dr. Stephanie Thrower Stephanie Thrower is a psychologist and coach helping values-driven practitioners use AI tools to simplify marketing, scale income, and build meaningful, sustainable businesses. With a background in vocational psychology, mental health, performance psychology, and social justice, she guides clients through mindset, messaging, and system-building. Stephanie is also the creator of custom GPT tools that help therapists and coaches reclaim time, express their voice, and show up more consistently online—all while designing innovative, client-centered ways to teach and support growth in the online learning space. Website Growth Program Freebie Instagram Facebook Group

Most of us didn't get into therapy because we dreamed of being business owners. We wanted to help people. We wanted to do meaningful work. But somewhere along the way, we realized that to have the freedom and flexibility we crave, we'd need to go into private practice —and that meant running a business. Which meant dealing with money. Enter: panic. Linzy Bonham, a former trauma therapist turned financial coach and educator, knows this all too well. When she started her own practice, she quickly noticed that no one was talking about how to manage the financial side of things. There was no roadmap for how to save for taxes, track expenses, or figure out if you could afford to hire help. So she built one—and in the process, uncovered something deeper: It's not just about spreadsheets. It's about mindset. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code “GORDON” to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Meet Linzy Bonham Linzy Bonham is a private practice therapist turned money coach who helps fellow therapists feel calm, confident, and in control of their finances. The daughter of an accountant, Linzy brings a unique blend of therapeutic insight and financial savvy—half therapist, half bookkeeper. When she entered private practice, she immediately dove into learning how to build a sustainable business that could support her life and keep money in the bank. Along the way, she noticed something troubling: brilliant, compassionate colleagues were struggling with the financial side of their practices. Some avoided private practice altogether, while others left because the stress of managing money felt overwhelming. So Linzy decided to combine her people skills with her bookkeeping brain—and Money Nuts & Bolts was born. Today, she helps therapists develop peace of mind around money. Since most therapists were never taught how to manage finances, Linzy focuses on making the “how” approachable, doable, and even enjoyable. (Because feeling competent and calm about your money? It's pretty great.) Her signature course, Money Skills for Therapists, has helped hundreds of therapists in (or preparing for) private practice get their finances in order and shift their relationship with money. She also offers Money Skills for Group Practice Owners, a course that guides practice owners through mindset work, systems, key numbers, and leadership strategies—so they can become confident, empowered CFOs of their own thriving practices. Website Money Skills For Therapists Podcast Instagram LinkedIn Resources

When it comes to leading a private practice, most people focus on strategy, logistics, and profitability. But what if the secret to becoming a better therapist, leader, and human being isn't outside of you, but inside? In this episode, Gordon Brewer sat down with Rachel Bentley of Next Level Private Practice to explore how Internal Family Systems (IFS)—or "parts work"—has completely transformed the way she leads, supervises, and shows up in the therapy room. Spoiler: it's not just about helping your clients—it starts with understanding yourself. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Watch on YouTube  Use the promo code “GORDON” to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Meet Rachel Bentley Rachel Bentley is a Licensed Professional Counselor and IFS Level 2 trained therapist. She is the CEO and Founder of COR Counseling, a group practice of 40 clinicians. COR is LGBTQIA+ centered and affirming. As Rachel built a sustainable and profitable group practice, folks started coming to her for advice and mentorship. Because of this, she created Next Level Private Practice—a consulting company that helps clinicians in all stages of private practice. Are you ready to take your private practice to the next level? Whether you're launching your practice, expanding from solo to group, or sustaining a thriving group practice, Next Level Private Practice is here to support you at every stage. We offer: On-demand courses A comprehensive practice assessment Mentorship groups One-on-one consulting You'll also gain access to a vibrant community through our Facebook group, and be invited to Lunch with Rachel—a free monthly Zoom event packed with expert insights and practical resources. We're also thrilled to announce the Next Level Private Practice Summit, taking place in Grand Rapids, MI, in late September 2025. The summit will be a place to: 1. Connect and build community with like-minded folks who do the work you do (no more isolation!) 2. Get inspired and reenergized about your work as a therapist, business owner—or both 3. Learn from 30+ speakers who will provide tangible takeaways and action steps to help you begin or grow your practice Join us and build a practice that's not just successful—but sustainable. Next Level Private Practice Folks can join our FB group/community here Next Level Private Practice Summit Next Level Private Practice Instagram  

Think compliance is just about HIPAA? Think again. In this episode, Gordon sits down with Dr. Tiana Kelly—licensed professional counselor, compliance expert, and co-founder of Private Practice by Design—to unpack what compliance really looks like in a modern private practice. From late notes and misgendering mistakes to the growing use of AI and how to document for maintenance clients, Tiana breaks it all down in a refreshingly honest and approachable way. Whether you're a new therapist still figuring out documentation or a seasoned practice owner ready to level up your systems, this episode is packed with practical insights, helpful reminders, and a few “oh no, I've done that” moments. You'll walk away feeling empowered—not panicked—about building a HIPAA-secure, ethically sound, and human-centered private practice. Resources Mentioned In This Episode  Read the show notes here Use the promo code “GORDON” to get 2 months of Therapy Notes free Consulting with Gordon The PsychCraft Network Meet Dr. Tiana Kelly Dr. Tiana Kelly has been working in a clinical capacity in counseling since 2017 and has dedicated several years to developing and strengthening Move Forward Counseling's compliance program. She has most recently worked alongside Alison Pidgeon to establish Private Practice By Design, LLC – a business focused on providing consultation to other private practice owners. Tiana brings a wealth of knowledge and experience in her consultant role related to compliant documentation practices and policy development, HIPAA standards, and chart auditing. In addition, Tiana has a Doctorate Degree in Prevention Science, which has equipped her with the skillset necessary to identify and promote protection against compliance risks. Website LinkedIn Instagram Facebook

This episode of Buddhist Geeks features a candid and heartfelt conversation between Vince Fakhoury Horn and Tasshin Fogleman about Palestine, the TPOT subculture, and what it means to embody true Bodhisattvahood. They explore the limitations of online discourse, especially around contentious issues, and reflect on the importance of good-faith dialogue, friendship, and spiritual integrity in times of crisis.Join Vince Fakhoury Horn and Brian Newman outside of Lisbon, Portugal at the beginning of 2026 for a 10-day intensive jhāna retreat. There, we'll be exploring The Flavors of Jhāna.Episode TranscriptVince:Hey Tasshin.Tasshin:Hi Vince.We just talked before I hit record. We just talked still. It's like formally. Hi. Hi. Tasshin: We're here. Vince: Yeah, exactly. That's good to see you. Tasshin: Yeah, good to see you too, brother. Yeah. Vince: Yeah, man, I appreciate you being willing to I invited you to have this conversation on X or my favorite platform to hate, Tasshin:My favorite platform to love.Vince: Great. I was there with you for a while, but yeah, it's getting a little weird. It's it's getting a little Faschy, X but we'll probably talk about that. So I propose that we talk about, this was the theme I proposed to you, which is Palestine, TPOT, and True Bodhisattvahood.. And it's, I guess in response to a lot of frustrated, angry, maybe righteous and not in a necessarily, in all bad sense. But yeah, in some posts that I've been sharing on X since I don't know it's been ongoing since the October 7th in my case. So I guess I wanted to explore that with you because I consider you to be one of my friends in the TPOT subculture, which we can get into and talk about what that actually is, Uhhuh because it's pretty, and it's it's vagueish, but, or decentralized at least.But it seems like you're well respected in this decentralized subculture and I think I'm part of that as well, but I seem to be taking a very different role from you and how I relate to it, which is a little bit more critical and Challenging and, I haven't found that's really endeared me to many people in the community.But some people like yourself have engaged with my critiques in what feels like a good faith way, and I've really appreciated that. So I thought, it'd be cool to have a, an even more personal conversation where people could see potentially if we decide to release any of this.And I don't know, just the human side of this, which doesn't come across often in 280 characters. Tasshin: Yeah. I appreciate all that context. I think that's really helpful and I think it's good to have a conversation about this. I think that I've been really struck by your perspectives on this and in general, I really value your perspectives and your opinions about the path and about practice and, we've had a number of disagreements over the years, but I've always walked away, like really learning a lot. And yeah, I do try to engage in good faith and I think especially one of the practices I have just for any kind of conflict in general is if I feel like text-based mediums especially can only hold so much.I don't even like to discourse or disagree on Twitter. I use it for other things and it's hey, if I'm, I've said this to you before, if we have a disagreement, let's get on a call and actually talk about it. And because it's just, you can actually hear the other person's perspective and where they're coming from in a way that text just really doesn't afford.So I'm glad we're talking about this. Yeah, I think it's great. Yeah. Vince: And the downside of doing that without recording it and sharing it back, because of course then it's just like a private thing that happens Right, and doesn't necessarily filter out in the same way to the collective. Tasshin: Totally. Totally.SoVince: This is cool. Yeah. Thank you. Tasshin: Do you have any suggestions for where you'd like to start or what feels like a good starting place?Vince: I would be curious to see your take on what TPOT is or how you'd describe that phenomena. I did spend a little bit of time reflecting on it, and I came up with a little, like micro definition, but I don't think it's exhaustive this a starting point.But I'm curious even before sharing that, if there's anything, thoughts on TPOT and what it is, if you've thought, have you meditated on that? How do you can, Tasshin: yeah. I love that and I'm so curious what your definition will be. I suspect it'll be spicier than mine, but I liked what you said earlier about it being a decentralized community.because I, I felt a little bit of trepidation before this conversation for really all three of the things you want to talk about. I feel like, so woefully inexpert in and I really don't know as much as I ought to about the war, and I don't know as much. I, I don't know. I'm not, I'm in TPOT certainly, but I'm not, there's no elected four figure leader or something.It's decentralized, as you said. And then also at the Bodhisattva path, I'm like still figuring it out very right. As we all are so right. But yeah, TPOT, I think for me it's very much about specific people, like their specific friends that I've cultivated very deep friendships with, that I've met through Twitter, and developed those relationships through Twitter and their, I think some of my closest friends at this point are people I've met through Twitter and they're friendships that I treasure and I think it is decentralized.I think it's. Spread throughout the world at this point. Like I can go to any major city and meet people who are connected to this network. And I, like my friend Andrew Rose has been talking about it recently as the network where it's yeah, it's not really about Twitter anymore. And it's not really, it's a larger cloud of people that are connected and I think it's not necessarily ideologically on the same page, like people having the same perspectives or even shared practices.There might be shared interests and common overlaps, but I think people have very different perspectives on the world. And it's more, if anything, I'd say it's like a developmental similarity where, for me at least, it really helped me to, I started to enter TPOT. I could go into detail, but as I was individuating from being at the monastery for many years and it's I mean it from a developmental perspective, it helped me jump from three to four in the Keegan stages where it's like I was in a tribal state of mind identified with the maple ideology and worldview and practices, which was great for me at the time. It really was. And then it's, it stopped being great for me and I had to find a new way and being with so many weirdos from around the world who saw things so differently really helped me to find my own way and find my own life. So I feel a sense of connection and intimacy with it, and like indebtedness to it, where it's these are my people and a help that helped me to find myself in the world.Yeah, that's what TPOT is to me at least. Vince: I like what you're saying about the developmental part. I guess I see the phenomena similarly like this is something that. There's a lot of people coming together, not, like you said, around a particular ideology or like framework.Which is very common. Like a bunch of people come together on a specific book or teacher or teaching or whatever. This is different because there are teachers and teachings that are, you see commonly in that community. But it's pretty broad. Yeah. Tasshin: And you don't have to buy into any of them.I think there are major, if anything there's like themes, like non coercion is a big one or Right. And people bring their own interests and you don't have to be interested in the same things other people are interested in. Vince: But there's something, if you put all those themes together, you'd start to see like broader theme of Absolutely.Yeah. The connection there. Yeah. Which I think you're totally right. It's, there's something maybe developmental underneath that. I was thinking about the book, The Postmodern Condition. Which David Chapman originally recommended to me. He's one of the, he's a TPOT Philosopher.Maybe he wouldn't he probably reject that phrase term, but he is a philosopher and well respected in that space. Tasshin: Sure. Vince:And I remember the the author Jean-François Lyotard, he said, simplifying to the extreme, “I define postmodern as incredulity toward meta narratives.”And I find there's something very postmodern about this community where there's a kind of general skepticism toward meta-narratives, of thinking that like one way of describing reality could be totally comprehensive and true for everyone, everywhere, all the time.And I see that as one of the things I really appreciate about TPOT. In terms of it representing a move out of like the modern condition, which was much more like about trying to find the right ideology and all these clashing Isms, Communism versus Capitalism versus all these kind of clashing religions.Who's got the best, which framework is going to come out on top, and everyone's going to eventually believe it's like some, I see that as the more of the modern condition. And so in that sense it feels like a real relief, to see communities, that are forming around.Around this. And it, I guess that's the reason for me, I always connect my experience of coming up in the integral community, Ken Wilber's community with TPOT because it felt like a very similar kind of vibe there. Where so many people I met were just doing radically different kinds of things.And, there'd be someone who's super into, like spiritual surrender, the lineage of Adi da, who is also like a concert pianist that I'm literally describing an actual person I worked with. And then someone else would be like, super into video production and have no interest in spiritual practice or meditation, but they have a lot of interest in like psychological work.And yeah, I guess that's something I've seen is consistent with the TPOT world. Is this sort of like postmodern incredulity towards meta narratives?Tasshin: How would that fit with it being I've never really understood this, but would you describe TPOT as meta-modern, or not meta-modern.Vince: I guess for me, I would say the center of gravity of TPOT seems to be in the transition between modern to postmodern. Like that I would call that post rational. Because the main mode of modernity is rational individualism. It's this is Ken Wilber's and Jean Gebser's take, but I find that to be true.So people like are questioning the limits of rationality and model making are post rational. I see, and I think as a result they're postmodern. But there's a transition, it's like there's a awkward developmental phase where you're letting go of, the absoluteness of models and you can ken Wilber called it the “performance contradiction.” He said, you can you can absolutize that too, or you can say everything is relative. That statement isn't a relative statement, it's an absolute statement. All perspectives are valid. Okay. That perspective you're saying is more valid than any other perspective, which says that certain perspectives are more valid than others. And so like the whole idea of postmodernity rests on a performance contradiction. That's, or at least the early stages of it where you're deconstructing that mo deconstructive, postmodernism Robert Kegan, would call it.He also has a reconstructive postmodern phase. I don't think TPOT is in the reconstructive postmodern phase, but I think some people in it are. It's like there's a spectrum, within, there's a center of gravity, but there's a spectrum. As well or more, it's like a scatter graph, Uhhuh, where like most of the dots are in the center around this sort of modern to postmodern transition, but then there's like trailing off in both directions.You'll see some people that are more traditional that are there just treating it like a group. I'm sure you saw that probably at Vibe Camp. Probably some people there that are just like. Just drinking the Kool-Aid and don't really, aren't really, maybe vibing in the same way as everyone else.Tasshin: Uhhuh. Vince: And then you find some weird people too that are like aliens even within the space. Who seem to be like a David Chapman I mentioned. He seems like a, an alien to me. Tasshin: An example, Vince: I think he's talking, I think he's a meta-modern Tasshin: thinker.Vince: I don't know.So I, I see a mix, but I mostly see people in the Yeah. Like early postmodern stage, Tasshin: I recently saw a really nice tweet from Mechanical Monk where, which I can link you to later, but he drew this diagram or made like a video of what TPOT is, and he was arguing that like TPOT is a moving target where like i'm thinking of these people. And then you're thinking of these people and there's some overlap, like you and I are both friends with, like Daniel Thorson for example, or. Some other people that we'd have in common, or I know who David Chapman is or whatever. And so there, there's enough overlap that we could be like, oh, we're both pointing at TPOT, but then you don't know some people that I'm pointing to and I don't know some people you're pointing to.And then eventually this is happening more and more. Or people use the acronym TPOT and you're like, I've never seen you. I don't know who you're talking about, and I don't know what you're describing. I think you and I have enough of a shared sense of the thing, but yeah, I thought that was a really good point, that it's not like a homogenous group.Like it has a no, no one likes, this is a very probably like post rat thing to do. Nobody likes labeling it. So it's everyone's unhappy with the term TPOT. Nobody wants to identify as TPOT or as a post rat or whatever. Even the term, Vince: I mean in the phrase the acronym TPOT itself isTasshin: relative and it's like relational.Vince: This part of Twitter. Yeah, no, you're saying it's like a network and I see that. There was a site for a while, I don't know if you saw it, where you could like, you could see the sort of it was like a ranking or listing of the most sort of central, I do remember that inside of a network, it was like the tea, you could pull up TPOT and see a list.I was like, I'm on that list. Which I would, which I would take myself, I would opt out of that list if I could choose to. But it's not a choice as you're part of this network.Tasshin: Yeah. If you know the acronym ar arguably you are in it. It's just once and.Vince: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So what I hear you saying from like the network perspective is like you, you see it from your point of view of the network. And the network is evolving, it's not static. It continues to grow and change and shift. That's right. So your view of it is changing and shifting with the network.That's right. So you both, you have both a limited view and it of something that's changing. That seems true to me. Which doesn't mean we can't talk about it. Or try to, come up with something useful to say about it. I would describe it this way. I'll tell you how I would describe it.Yeah. Yeah. Let's hear it. Oh boy. I'm not so sure about the last part. No, it's not that bad. So I describe TPOT as a weird, and here I'm using the weird acronym, Western educated, industrialized rich and democratic post rational subculture that's connected by shared interest in self-agency and awareness.Tasshin: That seems good. Something that's popping out to me is just also how much of this is specifically enabled by the internet and Twitter in particular, or I think there's something starting to happen that you could call like a Twitter like Blue Sky is a Twitter or Mastodon is a Twitter. I hope we have other Twitter likes in the future.because as you said, X is becoming fahy. Or to me, the thing that a Twitter is very much like a public library, and then Twitter happens to be a company and it's that has skewed incentives and stuff like that. But any case I'm like, yeah that all, everything you said tracks and then it's I think it is meaningfully enabled by technology, right?And whatever a Twitter like is in particular. Vince: Okay. Yeah. That's good. So that's missing in my description here. I agree. It's enabled by that and there's something too like it. The tech, the technology itself is very postmodern. These platforms and microblogging platforms, like you're getting these really tiny little snippets that are largely decontextualized.And you're just seeing a bunch of decontextualized atomized information flowing constantly through your stream without, you have to put the context together. That's right. The platform itself does not do that. In fact, it, if you're not, if you don't have the capability to do that, it might actually be really problematic because That's Tasshin: true.Vince: Yeah. You don't know. So I'd say it's almost perfectly compliments the subculture, the design of it.Tasshin: That's true. And it makes sense of like why you would feel a resonance with, I wasn't in this myself, but from what I imagine the integral community and then also why that would be different of I imagine Twitter wasn't a huge part of that back then because it, I don't even know what the were, but wasn it wasn't even, it Vince: wasn't, no, Twitter launched the year after I left the Integral Institute. So yeah. It wasn't part of that blogging and podcast or very early, like web two was part of it for sure.But it was primarily an in-person community. It was centered. It was like centered in person and then had a sort of one to many kind of broadcast media kind of web 2.0 media thing to it. So it did look a lot different than that. It occurs Tasshin: to me that, at least in my experience, the technology feels really central to the thing.And the properties you named are almost like emergent or like the kinds of people that would resonate with it or something, or be able to make full use of it or Right. What have you. But it doesn't seem intrinsically necessary, but it does seem to me almost, like that if you have a Twitter, like something like this subculture would arise and I could see different, similar subcultures that had different properties or even an ideology or like different developmental stages or something.But I think that a Twitter is really good at clustering people who can vibe together or relate to each other and in a way that's more emergent. I think a lot about individualism and collectivism and I think that this kind of technology affords the possibility of yeah, basically a Hegelian synthesis of individualism and collectivism where each person can be their own individual, but also be in community with a larger network that respects their individuality, but can coordinate as a whole and.I think Twitter likes uniquely make that possible. And I could see ones that were like clusters that were meaningfully different. You'll see sometimes people talk about this, they're like, maybe there's a whole other cluster that's not connected to us at all that we have no idea about. Almost the I forget what the alien version of that is, but like the likelihood that there's an alien is civilization in any given solar system.It's maybe they're out there. Who knows. Vince: Something like, like the Drake equation would describe the Drake equation, how likely that would be. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. You're using the term Twitter. I don't know if we've talked about this, but I will explicitly not use that term anymore to refer to X, mainly because I think people are confusing the term Twitter with the term microblogging. Huh? Since it was the original Microblogging platform, I think a lot of times we conflate Twitter with Microblogging. And so when you say Twitter, like I, that's another way to me of saying Microblogging.What's Tasshin: important to you there? Vince: It's important to me to stop being so sentimental about Twitter because Twitter's dead and whatever that it was, is gone. But Microblogging is alive and well and it's probably doing better now than when Twitter was alive. So I think it's somehow by being sent sentimental Twitter, we mask our ability to perceive what's happening in broader terms with microblogging. And we potentially overlook a lot of nasty shit happening on X.com as well by doing that. Tasshin: I see. Yeah I tend to use the word Twitter for different, maybe sentimental reasons as you're saying, but it's an intentional use on my term. On my part. And maybe I'll just use the word Twitter and you can use the word X and we can Vince: Yeah, no, it's fine.Proceed accordingly. It's No, it's fine. I just wanted to point that out. Very good. That's a difference in frames. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. This has been very conceptual so far, but I'm curious to bring it a little downward too, because I remember maybe it was like a week after October 7th Hamas attacked civilians in Israel and.I knew from my own experience having grown up in a, as a Palestinian and American household and having watched this to some degree play out over 40 plus years, 40 years at the time that I was like the blow back from this is gonna be 10 x at least. Because that's consistent. Throughout time it's always Israel will respond with 10 times the amount of violent force at least. And so I was like, if you take the numbers, I was like, that's. That's catastrophic. That's gonna be terrible. And so I knew within the first week, and I shared this on X, that this is going to be a genocide.And so for me, this is the perspective I'm coming from is like I've known that a genocide has been going on for, from the beginning. Have known that the intention or that the likely the likely response was gonna be genocidal. And I think there's a lot of debate about whether or not this is I think that debate is now totally foolish from my point of view.You frame this for instance, as a war, I would call it a genocide. I would say the genocide rather than the war. Or the occupation, which more, more accurate description. because a war assumes that there's two countries, two sides that are equivalent and they're at war.But this is rather like a group of people who've been dispossessed and occupied for decades. Who wrongly lashed out and hurt civilians. But who did so from the point of view of being in a one up, one down power position? So like the group of people or Palestinian people, had been occupied, their movements are controlled.Things coming in and out of Gaza were controlled in terms of water, food, et cetera. Many people described it as an open air prison. Including a colleague of mine who lives in Tel Aviv. He described it that way to me one time. And so from my point of view, it's a lot of times people don't understand when they enter into this, the history of this, that just the basic history of occupation.And so to frame it as a conflict between two equals is a, in a way obscures the power. Dynamics at play where, one group has so much more power over the other and has so much more are literally like nuclear power that's backed by the most powerful military in the world. Who has a lock on the un Tasshin: In Vince: terms of our ability to veto the Americans. So it's David and Goliath rather than, two superpowers going to war. So that's one thing I'll just share is just the frame for me of Palestine. And so I'm, I've been seeing it that from the very beginning.And what I've found with, on, on platforms like X and with the community of TPOT is. Just this sort of maddening silence. Or this sort of schizo, in my experience is like a schizophrenic feed, where on the one hand I'm seeing Palestinian activists and intellectuals and people who are I think doing good work at bringing awareness to an ongoing livestream, genocide.And then an another group of folks more in the TPOT space who are kind of sharing their psychotic explorations and talking about their cool practices and giving, challenging takes and all of which has this other very different vibe which is much more self-focused. And and the two of them in contrast really, that's, for me, that's my, that, that's the tension I'm existing in.And I can totally relate to the self. Absorbed interest in my own transformation and wanting to play around. And it, I totally get that because that's where I've been. Like that's my background as well. But it's, yeah, it's maddening to see these two side by side. And I feel like there's so much missed opportunity with TPOT given that it's so influential right now in culture, in our mainstream culture.And so I guess I, I'm saddened by the fact that I don't see that community having really come around to care much about what's happening in these kind of global situations. Like you, you talked about individualism and collectivism. I feel like it's way more skewed toward individualism in the TPOT world than it is collectivism.So I, that's actually a criticism I'd have. I don't feel like they're both ending it at all. But. Anyway. Yeah, that's just a little bit where I'm coming from,Tasshin: I hear you. Just first off, really mourning and grieving the plate of the Palestinian people that's happening and feeling personally connected to that because of your family and watching the news very closely and really actively grieving that, of just the evil that's happening and caring about that and wanting to see that change and end, and seeing that as a genocide, not as a war.And really appreciating people who are speaking up and being vocal about it and trying to work for change to resolve that crisis and. It feeling used the word like schizophrenic to see TPOT, which seems like self-absorbed and individualistic, where it's like people are talking about whatever they're on about, and it's I got this metaphor hearing you talk about it, of someone who's starving, who's like incredibly hungry, and then they're like next to some rich people who are like having like coffee and talking about, some obstru philosophy and you're like, I'm starving.Can you please give me some of your food? There I'm having a real problem here and you're talking about this stuff that really doesn't matter. And yeah, that being really painful and then also a care about you're like, yeah, TPOTs incredibly powerful and culturally powerful and why aren't you talking about this?You should be talking about this so that we can use your power for good and change the world in that way. Vince: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a naive of me to expect that in some way. So this is where I get a little, this is where I feel the bind. It's on the one hand I intellectually get if this really is developmental as we're describing if this cultural phenomena has a developmental dimension to it, then why would I expect the bulk majority of people who are, coming out of individual rationalism to be focused on anything other than that kind of things are related to that.Who would be well Tasshin: positioned to make a change that had positive effect in the world from a developmental perspective? Vince: That's a good question. I guess anyone could. So maybe the issue isn't the underlying development, but it's the culture, the cultural expression of that. In this case, it's, WEIRD is, I think a good way of putting it, white sorry, Western, but those two are connected, educated, industrialized, rich, and democratic.It feels like a lot of what you're saying is true because we're, we are in this WEIRD culture in the US largely, especially the educated TPOT, whole US is not WEIRD. A lot of, there's a lot of uneducated people and people without access to resources, but but we're having this weird conversation.And meanwhile in the global Commons, we're like you said, right next to people that are posting videos constantly of people being, shot and killed and assassinated executed, like right there, children starving, et cetera. And it's it, this is the critique that Postmodernism has had for a long time of modernity.It's like the colonialist thing. It's like how is it that we have so much privilege to be able to have these conversations in the first place, because we ourselves are living on dispossessed land. Like we ourselves dispossessed the Native Americans to be able to be here, we ourselves brought African slaves from Africa to be able to take care of our cotton mills and our run our agricultural industry.And so we ourselves built a country on those very foundations and we ourselves as Western people escaped persecution in Europe. Our whole history of escaping persecution and then bringing it with us is what's happening with Israel and Palestine, from my point of view, it's the same basic pattern.I think it's hard to see that when you're focused on you Tasshin: On Vince: your individual journey of transformation and without being able to zoom out into these broader collective patterns that are shaping you as much as you are shaping yourself. And I wonder if sometimes, like we overestimate our agency, or we over-index on our agency in this community. That'd be my, I guess my question or challenge to folks. Tasshin: Can you say more about that? The over-indexing on agency? What you mean by that? Vince: Yeah, so like for me the synthesis of the agency, of agency and communion is what I'm most, most interested in right now.Because that schizophrenic split feels like it's a split of these two, where it's like you have people that are high agency and have lots of opportunity and privilege, and then you have people that have extremely low ability to opt to effectively exercise their agency. They barely can get food. So it's like such a huge contrast there. And what's the difference between these two groups of people? Like historically it's the only reason I'm on this side of the street is because my grandfather was able to get into this country in 1950.And he was lucky, essentially. So like the only difference is basically luck of birth. Like where are you born? And we, I think we take so much credit for the stuff that is, has nothing to do whatsoever with us. It's like when Obama, said you didn't build that and everyone fucking flipped out.You don't know if you remember that he was talking about, I don't know, he was talking about infrastructure and there was a huge backlash from the Right. Like we built that, in hyper American individualism. And it's I think, you know what the genocide and Gaza's taught me is I'm just lucky.I'm just lucky because I have cousins who are in the West Bank right now and they're living in concentration camp type environments. Like they, they're scared to leave their home because people around them are getting shot by settlers and, five Palestinian Americans have died in the West Bank this past year.People who are just going over there to visit family. So it's extremely bad right now, even in the West Bank, which is considered to be the more stable of the two Palestinian regions. In Gaza, I have two family members here in North Carolina and Asheville that are mar married into my family. So they're not direct family members, but their spouses, and they both have lost over 200 family members in Gaza. Which is hard for people even in the West to understand, because they don't, we don't come from big families like that where you could even imagine having 200 family members.But yeah, like whole family trees are essentially being wiped out. Yes. Are cut down. So it's, to me it's very, because I'm in both worlds. I'm teaching meditation and I'm hearing about, what's going on for my cousin in the West Bank, and I'm hearing about what's happening for other Palestinians that I know.I'm like, this is, it's a very hard tension to hold. So for me, the synthesis of agency and communion is I can recognize, like I have a certain amount of agency in part because of the communal situation. Like we have a community that optimizes for agency. And it optimizes for agency at the at the negative at the expense of many other communities, agency and has historically and even presently, like a lot of.The opportunities we have are because of they've been taken rather than, it's like not an omni win situation. So I feel like there's a lack of kind of acknowledgement of that, that often in part because you start to feel really bad. And if there's anything I've noticed about TPOT is like, people don't want to feel bad.Like people wanna empower each other and raise each other up. And I think there's something beautiful about that. But to me it's come, it comes at the expense of valid criticism, of being open to hearing valid criticism. And that's the kind of, that's, that adds how I felt. I've been res largely, my, my criticisms have been responded to.It's oh yeah, this is, you're just like it's I'm a downer. I'm like, yeah, sorry. It's fucking, it is a downer. It really is. How do you, I know that's general and broad, but how do you respond to something like that?Tasshin: Can you ask a, I there's a lot of thoughts running through my mind. Can you ask a specific question? Vince: I'm just curious what your general Yeah. Sense of that is.Tasshin: First off, my heart hurts. It hurts to know that violence is happening at scale and it hurts to hear that. And I'm okay hurting.I know, I've done a lot of, I, I can feel that, but it hurts and I feel sad and I feel grief knowing about this travesty that's happening. AndI feel that about a lot of things that I know about in the world now, including this. And that's always,yeah. Hard to be with. And I try to learn how to be with that and, i'm grateful for the opportunity to be reminded of what's happening and to be connected to it. I feel a desire to have change occur that feels like it matters. I would like war, genocide, evil violence to end. I'm a pacifist.My, one of the worst days of my life every year is when I pay taxes. I hate paying my taxes, partly because it's annoying bureaucratically, but even more so because I feel like I'm compromising my own ethics by supporting the US military. And that I every year I decide I'm gonna pay my taxes so that I can contribute, continue to be part of this society in a legal and upright way.I'm not morally opposed to taxes as such, but I am morally opposed to what my government does with those taxes, including I don't know the full extent of this. I'm sure you know much more, but certainly being complicit in this war, genocide, violence, murder. Bombing evil. Yeah. And other evils known and unknown.I know that and I've been around a little bit. So that hurts. That's the first and foremost thing. And I feel for you, having family i's just I went through just a couple years ago my mom dying of cancer, and we knew about it four years before she died, three, four years before she died.And she lived a blessed life, and I felt perfectly ready to let her go. And it was still really hard. And it's imagine my family members being murdered at scale and being starving and being oppressed and in all kinds of ways that I can only imagine. It's that my heart would just be breaking on a daily basis.And I feel for you, my friend, going through that and, for the Palestinian people more broadly, such that I'm connected to them and for all who are subject to war. It's just it's just evil. It's just e that, like you, you wanna call it genocide? I'll just call it evil, like it's, I think violence is evil and war is evil and genocide is evil and bombs are evil and guns are evil.And murder is evil and killing children is evil. And it's just, my heart breaks at that. As far as the other specific things you were saying, I'm reminded of a an argument that I've had or witnessed many times where there's kind of two recurring schools of thought in our culture where how do I summarize this? Because I've seen this in a lot of specific instances, and I don't wanna get into the specific instances, but let's take a simple example like say your relative was a Trump supporter, and you personally didn't vote for Trump and don't want Trump to be president. There are people in our culture at this time who would say the thing to do is to be disconnected from that Trump supporter and to never talk to them and to shame them for who they are and or give them radio silence and cut ties.And that's a whole school of thought that applies to many issues. And then there's a school of thought that says how are you gonna change their mind if you don't stay connected to them, if you don't really understand where they're coming from and listen to them and talk to them and share your own perspective.And I tend to be more in the latter school of thought of connection is the basis of change. Actually hearing other people's perspectives, sharing my own, to the extent that it's possible. And you're not. Beating each other up or whatever shooting at each other. But I think being connected to people is the basis of change.And I'm getting here somewhere here with this, which is to me, I hear you saying, I'm not part of TPOT. These are the people that are in TPOT. They're silent, they have these, I don't know, I hear you talking about like collective blind spots, which I think are very valid. I'm glad you're mentioning them, but it's like those people have the blind spot.And this is their problem. And to me I could be wrong, but think, Vince: It's really the Palestinians problem. They're the ones that are suffering for the collective blind spot. They're suffering a lot more. Tasshin: Yes.I think that. You could usefully see yourself as part of TPOT, and that by staying connected to people in TPOT and speaking to them, you can change their minds. I think you've changed my mind about things about this and had an impact on me and had a causal influence on me. And I see you having that impact on a other people.And I think that if you took that perspective, there's more or less efficacious ways of doing that. Ways that, that, that's a question that's come up for me about this is actually about like theories of change. And just one more thing is I was recently in Santa Fe, my dad moved to Santa Fe and when I was there, there's a lot, my dad is like very near the Santa Fe is the capitol, and he is very near the capitol where the government is.And so there's just always protests there like at least once a week. And I get, I personally, me, Tasshin, get so angry at these protestors because I, in my current worldview, think that their theory of change is just shit. They're like, by going to this place and having a sign, I'm gonna change the world. It, to me, I see that is like by and large, incredibly efficacious and not gonna produce the change that they want.And do I know what the theory, what a theory of change is that would produce it? No, but I am spending all of my time and energy on things that I think will have a positive change in the world. Even if they're not enough, even if they're not direct enough, even if they're not gonna end or resolve all the issues I care about, which are many.I am putting all of my time and energy into things that I believe are efficacious. And presumably they think it's efficacious too. They think this is worth doing because they're doing it. And in a way I'm wrong about it because demonstrably people think that holding a sign in front of a capitol is gonna change the world.But, Vince: It does boost their agency when people protest that's, it's an exercise in agency. Tasshin: I do think there's a critical threshold where if enough people protest something, I can't have a change. Obviously that's happened Vince: Arab Spring. Tasshin: Exactly. So it's not, it's definitely not useless. But my point to you as an individual that I care about as my friend, is I think you're actually incredibly well positioned to have a cultural impact on this group that you already are connected to, and that there are more or less efficacious ways of doing that.Like this conversation is efficacious, right? We're having a real conversation between two people who respect each other. We're recording that so that other people can listen. I think that's actually likely to produce the change that you're desiring to some extent. Is it gonna it's hard to say.Vince: It's hard to say. I hear what you're saying. Yeah, I think you and I have talked about this in the past too. I have, some of the biggest changes I've been through have come through people challenging me even violently. And my whole upbringing, as you can hear, it's rooted in violence. Yes. So it's like the story of my family.Is one of resilience in the face of violence, Tasshin: Uhhuh. So this is the recurring thing we always argue about. Yeah. Or one of the several things. Vince: Yeah. It's an, it's like in a place where we rub, I think, but Yeah. But it's understandable. So I'm a little more Okay. Ruffling feathers and even having active conflict with people because I know that sometimes that's actually good.Sometimes if you're too nice, people won't hear you. If you have something powerfully challenging to say, it will just be like, oh yeah, that's nice. And I can just incorporate that into my worldview and feel good about knowing about it, but actually not really be doing anything significantly differently.So it's like a, I don't know, this is in the abstract, but. Tasshin: There's two things there. What there's one is, which is like, how nice are you? And I actually do honestly believe that you would be more efficacious at seeing the changes you want to see, at least in the local community if you were nicer.In addition to being kind. I do think you're kind, that's not an issue. But separately from that, like you, one of the things we talked about recently on the timeline was you're like, I've just been considering blocking people left and right. And I think that Oh, I have been blocking them lost.Exactly. Vince: I've lost half of my friend network in the last year. Tasshin and so that's where I am. So here let me push back a little bit. I lo yeah. I lo I love what you're saying, but I don't think it's my job to do that. I think it's your job to do that, to, to be the one that can be nice and change people's minds on this topic.Tasshin: Oh, that's true. It is my job. You're right. I Vince: agree with you. Yeah, because because I'm too close to it. It's too painful for me. Like people start saying stuff to me. It is like I'm hearing them deny the entire, like truth of my whole identity, my family identity. It's no, like this is true.I'm not, I'm gonna have argue with you like you are dehumanizing me and everyone that's Palestinian right now. Even by having an argument, having even framing this as a debate, is there a war going on? Who's responsible? Et cetera. So it's like what I find is I want to keep talking because I want, it's like the Buddha, he's, and I'm comparing myself to the Buddha here.I know he is gonna fly really well, there, there's an analogy here where he's I'm awake. Okay. Who can I, teach this to, very few are gonna understand it. Because it's subtle and hard to get grasp. My companions, the ones I was practicing with they seem like they'll get it.They have very little dust in their eyes. So I guess I see my role as really more like the people that have very little dust in their eyes. Maybe I can reach them. What's the difference Tasshin: in this case between someone who has dust in their eyes and someone who doesn't, from your perspective?Vince: Are they, yeah. Are they awake to their complicity in a gen, in an active livestream? Genocide? Are they aware? I pay Tasshin: my taxes and, Vince: That's part of it. That's part of it. Yeah. It's like paying taxes. You, like you said, you can't really stop paying your taxes.My uncle did that. Went to prison. I actively Tasshin: choose Vince: to pay Tasshin: my taxes. I think I could stop paying my taxes. Could, I'm saying every year I considered you can do that. Vince: I seriously Tasshin: consider it. Every you'll to prison. Every year. Vince: You'll, you will go to prison. Tasshin: Yeah, exactly. And I believe I can have more impact, positive impact on the world by paying my taxes and not, and I, every, it's a trade off.Literally every year I make this decision again. Vince: Yeah. So it's, to your point, it's not it's not like a black and white thing where it's like. I'm complicit in this very obvious way that I'm just choosing not to. It's, it, the complicity is deep and it's multidimensional, subtle and Tasshin: systemic and multi-generational.And even, Vince: and yeah, and for me it's I was hanging out with a couple of my cousins recently who are from Palestine. They immigrated here in the early nineties when Palestinians were kicked out of Kuwait. And so they were here, they had to rebuild their life. They lost everything. And I grew up with them.And they're doing advocacy work now in the us And when I hear them, talk about their experience, it's like they're being, they're dealing with shit that I'm not having to deal with. Like one of my cousins recently lost her job. She was a high level exec at a tech company in San Francisco.And she thinks it's likely that she lost it because of her advocacy work within the company. So when I guess when I see. I've lost the thread a bit here in terms of connecting back to what we were talking about. But where was I going with that? Tasshin: You were saying something as my job as being TPOT versus your job.Vince: So like when I talk to, say I'll talk to my great uncle my grandfather's brother who grew up in Palestine, and I'll hear the kinds of things that he'll share. And like I, I don't have those kind of views. Like he's extreme compared to me in terms of like how he's viewing things.This is my interpretation. There's a definitely antisemitic tendencies in, in the family system that I've seen explicit and I understand why. Like I have a lot of compassion. I don't actually let it stand. I challenge it when it arises. Even now. This is this uncle I'm talking about.It's his family and his daughter that's in the West Bank right now. He's considering going to visit her in a couple months. He might get shot and killed while he is there. It's quite possible. For me it's like I, I see I can listen to him and I can hear him talk about stuff and I can sort through the pain and the antisemitism to hear, some of the, what's genuine and sincere and I can be there for him.And then I feel like I can reach out and connect with some people and share my pain and what I'm going through and, offer challenges or whatever to some folks. Recently right after September October 7th someone from he lives in Israel. He is American. We have the same background lineage of a pasta tradition.He invited me on to, to have a dialogue about this about what was happening. And and then after our we split, and we're not able to have any conversations anymore. Because some of the things I saw him writing on X and so the perspectives that he seemed to be taking, and we got to a point where we pulled in a mutual mentor someone someone who's like a master mediator.And their basic feedback was like, sometimes you can't have a conversation. Sometimes it's just not possible. And I feel like that's where I'm getting largely, it's it's just not possible for me to have a conversation with a lot of people right now. Because of how 10 how sensitive this is. And so you say, when you say to or I hear if you were kind or if you were nicer, you'd be more efficacious, if I were able to be, I would. But I'm not. Tasshin: And the second part of what I was saying there is that when you block people, you are closing yourself off from the possibility of changing them.And from what I've just heard from, and I'm okay with that. Yeah, exactly. That makes a bit more sense to me now from what you've said. But Vince: I'm not gonna change a Zionist's mind, I don't think, someone who's like a, Christian or Jewish Zionist, I don't think I'm gonna change their mind by sharing something on like a micro blog.Tasshin: That, one of the really urgent questions for me here is what is a theory of change that produces genuine end to war violence, genocide? What actually resolves that? Actually because if I let me figure out how to put this. I am currently putting my time and energy.Into the things that I think I can do that will have the highest benefit from my current understanding and vantage point. I literally spend every day of my life waking to sleeping, doing the thing that I think is best based on my, admittedly flawed, limited perspective, my own weaknesses and blind spots.But I do that every day. Every day. And if I thought that I could lead to the end of war, genocide, violence, evil in a scaled way I would work much harder to bring that about. I'd have to think about how it fits into all the things I'm doing and balance. But I really wanna know how someone like, I, I would hope for example, that the service guild at some point will have a peace department.Currently, we, as we have a love department, a curiosity department, an empowerment department. I would love for us to have a peace department. I want other departments, us to be able to have infrastructure for other focused crews. At some point it's the Peace Department should be bringing about peace.And I don't know how to do that. Even peace Pilgrim my hero, she spent 30 years working in the way that she knew how for peace. And I don't think she wasted her time far from it. But there is still not peace on earth after her doing that. Vince: Sure. Some of this reminds me, has echoes of the effect of al altruism movement.Yeah.Tasshin: I think they I feel how to put this, I have different aesthetic and ideological views with them on specific points, but I feel very sympathetic to their larger efforts and yeah, what do we actually do to actually have a real impact? I feel very I feel kinship with that, even if there's specific things I disagree with or don't vibe with.So yeah, that's noted. Vince: Yeah, I think if we were to zoom, like not to take the two global perspective of like, how do we stop all genocide, war, et cetera. And that's a good question, but to me it's like, how do we stop this specific one that's happening right now, Tasshin: Uhhuh.Like how, Vince: Because that's sure. So how do we stop it? Obviously you Tasshin: don't have to know, but what a different way of putting the question that's maybe a bit more reasonable. I think it, it's very Vince: noble. Like you, you stop Israel from killing Palestinians. That's how it, okay. And what leads Tasshin: to that causally?Vince: Probably having a Palestinian state would be a necessary part of that. And what leads to that? The US has to stop vetoing it in the us. And what leads Tasshin: to that? Vince: They change in US leadership and change. And what leads to that? People putting pressure and voting and grassroots organ organizing.Ah, that's Tasshin: where you lose me. Vince: Yeah. Look at look at Zohran Mamdani. He's a good example of how that's actually happening right now in the, he's the only candidate, like major candidate that I've seen recent in recent times. Progressive candidate who's actually vocal about this, who isn't on the, both parties, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump both supported the ongoing genocide. They're equally complicit. Tasshin: So basically we should or not leaders that are clear this in your perspective. What I'm hearing is Yeah. Yeah. The salient thing is elect leaders who are clear that this is a genocide who will end us complicitness and help and who are focused on economic populism.Vince: because our country really need, we need that right now. Tasshin: You lost me there. How does, what does that have to do with ending this genocide? Vince: You could it's both and so it's if you look at, this is a good example, I think part of, I grew up in the as probably you did too, in the.In the fading years of the political consensus between the neo-conservative and neoliberal parties, Tasshin: Uhhuh, Vince: who largely agreed on most everything, Tasshin: Uhhuh. Vince: They were both totally fine with military expansion. They were both fine with free trade agreements that hollowed out rural America and towns like in North Carolina, textile towns.Yeah. To save 5 cents, on a shirt made in Vietnam, we're totally fine letting an entire communities die, In towns we haul it out. So it's that kind of mentality, it's like what I grew up in and, it's like the arguments were mostly like stylistic. It's which style of the same ideology do you prefer?Tasshin: Coke versus Pepsi Vince: Ex. Exactly right. Coke and Pepsi. And Obama. He was, you fit right into this. He was not a departure, he was a rhetorician. Tasshin: Yeah,Vince: he sounded like a departure, but wasn't so true. Bestie. Yep. I think when I look at it in those terms, I say, okay what is so interesting about Donald Trump and the MAGA movement?It is actually presenting an alternative to the previous consensus. And I, the way I see American politics right now, and I could be wrong, is there's an emerging, there's a new emerging polarity. That alt left and right, quote unquote yeah, gosh, ne neo fascism and neo progressivism.And there's, and are you saying Tasshin: neo progressivism is the answer here? Vince: I'm, no, I'm not actually Uhhuh. Okay. Although, because some neo fascists don't want us to be sending money to Israel, Tasshin: Uhhuh, Vince: Marjorie Taylor Greene there, there's been a number that recently people who are like, why are we sending billions of dollars to Israel every year when we can't even take care of our own people?Yeah. And so I agree with that Uhhuh, what I actually think is emerging and has to emerge as an alt middle. It's a new. Consensus. And that alt middle will almost certainly not wanna continue propping up an American em military empire. Both alt-right and alt left. That's something they agree on.They don't want to be constantly waging endless wars. They don't wanna be always sending all of our money into our military budget. And is Tasshin: that connected to the populism you're talking about? Vince: Yeah, it is. Okay. It's a it's a strand of populism that's interested in retracting the American Empire and not continuing to create so many problems abroad.And who recognizes that doing so hurts us at home, Uhhuh, and because these things are interconnected. I see. Tasshin: Okay. Thank you for explaining that. Can I recount what I heard just now? Your, I, our, a shared goal that we have is we would like this war, genocide, violence, evil to end. We'd like it to end.And the way that comes about is Israel stops doing what it's doing. And the way that comes about is Palestine is a state and the US stops vetoing certain things at the un. And the way that happens is there's political pressure on the US to show up in a different way. And you're saying that the way that happens is we elect politicians who are want that course of action and also care about this populism and the relationship of how we're spending our money at home.Yeah. And the way that we do that is get involved in local political movements that support candidates that have that perspective. Vince: I think that's one of the most direct ways that uhhuh, that we can as Americans affected this. I'll tell Tasshin: you right now, I, I need to do due diligence on learning more about this, but I will very seriously both take that into consideration for my own voting and then also in how I speak about voting to my friends and people I'm connected to.That's not much. But this is more. That's what I really care about. I wanna make sure that whatever actions I take, I am that I can see. It matters to me that I can see how there could be a causal chain where this actually results in the things that we want, if that makes sense.I don't know why that matters to me so much, but it does. Vince: Yeah. Okay. We haven't talked about Bodhi Safa hood yet. Yes. So maybe I could bring that in. Yeah. Tasshin: Thank God, please. Someone helped me. Yeah. Vince: I don't know if you, it's a Tasshin: struggle out here. Vince: I don't know if you've heard this quote from Ujima Roshi Japanese Zen teacher.He said a Bodhi Safa is an ordinary person who acts like a true adult. Tasshin: I had never heard that before, but I love it. And what does true adult mean to you? Vince: I think a true adult is someone who sees a problem and they respond to it. And. A true adult recognizes the complexity of the situation and acts anyway with that with incomplete information with whatever resources and ability that they have while acknowledging that they're limited.So that's a start. True adult cares about themselves and others. I could even, I could actually inhabit as a true adult. I both take care of my life at home and I care about the impacts that that the country and systems I'm embedded in are having in the world. That I'm causal in, that I have some causal influence over, even if it's minimal.Tasshin: You know what I'm reminded of Vince is video game levels and I feel like. It seems it seems cr crass to pick levels, but I feel like, I don't know, let's say a level eight Bodhi Safa I'm not level one anymore. I'm not even level five anymore, but I feel acutely, like I'm really only level eight and I think it's gonna there are 10 Vince: levels aren't there In this game?I, oh no. Bodhi the boomie, the boom. No.Tasshin: I know what you're talking about. But also that's not the measurement system I'm using. Okay. You're not, Vince: it's not a traditional boomy model. No. Tasshin: I'm thinking like, I never played it, but like World of Warcraft, I'm pretty sure 80 is like a threshold in World of Warcraft.It's I'm pretty sure you need like a level 60 or 70 Bodhi Safa to have global systemic change at the level that's needed for the thing we're talking about. And I'm like I know if I have a friend that has a mental health crisis, like I'm struggling to barely be able to support them in a meaningful way.Like I'm embarrassed by how. Incompetent. I am at even that helping one person that's having a mental health crisis. Like I can help a little bit, but like I know someone who's an extended network right now is having their partner's having a major schizophrenic episode and I'm like, here, I can send you a link that might help you.That's that's so pathetic. That is so disgustingly pathetic for actually having an impact in the world. It's humiliating to admit, but here we are because there's real suffering and you have to do whatever we can to help. And so I would like to it would be great if I ended this year as a level nine Bodhi, that would be awesome.And do I want to have global systemic positive change on a historic scale? Absolutely. I hope that every passing year I'm more and more capable of. Large scale, positive impact, and I'm just so acutely aware of how incompetent I am and how limited I'm really doing everything I can to have a positive impact at the scale that I can right now.And it's it's pathetic and humiliating in the context of this larger suffering. I'm fine with that. I'm not embarrassed to say that, but it is humbling, it's it's not nearly good enough. And I think the more acquainted you are with how much suffering there is in the universe, the more humbled you are by that, by one's own incompetence to, and then you do, that's the Bodhi SA of vows, anyway, is just to be like greed, hatred, and end without end like vow to end it. Like you just, you get up and do something anyway. Vince: Yeah. I've. There's a distinction that's commonly made in like a, I would call it like in the woke pluralistic cultural scene of like intention versus impact.And that's an important distinction when you're starting to get into questions of race and racialization, because people will say things with a good intentions that hurt other people because they're ignorant of the impact that has for someone else. And here I think it's I think of that too with what you're saying, where it's okay yeah, like I want to become a, be a more impactful Bodhi Safa.I want to have a more net positive impact in the world. And on the one hand yeah, I could say, like you're saying it, I feel humbled and maybe embarrassed by how ineffectual I am. And. I also feel humble about the fact that I don't know the impact that I'm having. I don't understand it. And I feel like this is really, you probably have had a similar experience putting media out into the worlds, like with Buddhist geeks when we launched that, the hundreds and hundreds of people that I heard from over the years who are like, that had such a powerful impact on my life.And I'm like wow, okay. I, that was definitely not what I was aiming for. I was just doing something I thought was cool at the time. Honestly. And so that wasn't even necessarily my intention, but that was the impact. And so I'm amazed, I am amazed at how effective people can be without even knowing it. It's like hard sometimes. Hard to know. It's hard to measure. And that's where I would say it's the challenge here with what you're saying is I want to see if I'm effect. You have to be able to measure the effectiveness to be able to know, and we can't fully measure, we can get better at measuring, like we can maybe get more sophisticated in seeing and understanding our impact both negative and positive.But it's really difficult without going into you really have to have an understanding of the whole to be able to see your individual impacts on the whole. And I don't know, where am I going with this? Just to say there's some kind of feedback loop here that I think is like what the Bodhi Safa is driven by.It's like constantly coming back to. A wise or compassionate intention. And then do trying your best to live from that place, even if you're, not effectual. And then doing your best to understand the impacts of your actions So that, you can, that can inform how you act the next time that you're trying to be, coming from this place of genuine wisdom and compassion. And there's some kind of sharpening of like skillful means that happens in this feedback loop. Tasshin: Yeah. Vince: And to me, it's like the Bodhi Safa is one who's engaged in the pro in that process rather than Yes. Then there are different levels then are depths or degrees of skillfulness.And probably in different domains too.Tasshin: Yeah, of course. Multiple axes. Vince: So I hear what you're saying and I think that's valid. Like it isn't up to any, I don't think it's up to individuals to solve the global challenges.Tasshin: No, but I'm also like, I'm aware that I think I am I was just humble, so now I can be a little arrogant.I think I'm uniquely well-suited to create systems that actually do have causal impact on the historic scale over time. It just takes a long time and it takes very careful thought and a lot of care and consideration and love and effort. And so I would like to build systems that have a net positive historic impact on the scale of humanization.And as far as I can tell I'm playing my cards that way, where like I would really hope that if we fast forwarded 30 or 40 years, we would be like, Hey. The Service Guild did really good stuff that was net positive on human society and our civilization and the planet. And of course there'll be fuckups along the way where we mess up and I make just dumb mistakes and whatever.But I would hope that it's net positive and that it has a genuinely historic obvious impact on the world that was positive. So that's part of why my care, that's why I would wanna have this conversation at all, is like, how can I build systems that actually do have that kind of impact on ending, yeah.Including ending violence of all kinds and this conflict, this genocide, this war, this evil in particular. Vince: Yeah. I think that's a great intention. I, there's like a, there's a quote in the Bava Gita that's coming to mind. I can't remember the exact quote, but it's some, something about acting without any thought of results or it's happens in that famous dialogue between Krishna and Arjuna. Yeah, there's Tasshin: a difference in da I, I've been influenced a lot by DAAs strategy, and they talk a lot about the difference between means ends and conditions, consequences.And we're really trying to create the conditions for good consequences. So can I guarantee that we would have a particular result? Absolutely not, but absolutely not. But I think we can create the conditions for historic benevolent beneficent impact.Vince: It's interesting you're talking about a guild. Because to me it's I think of the Bodhi Safa as a more of like a. A relational phenomena. Tasshin: It's Vince: Team Bodhi Safa. Rather than a Bodhi Safa.And so it seems like a lot of the challenge here is around coordinating and connecting and aligning, collective alignment. And these are the things I think are very hard for people who've been trained to individuate and who are focused on their own agency. John Vey, the philosopher, he points out like when you take role, you are rolling yourself into that. You're losing a certain kind of agency by inhabiting a role, say role of father, role of teacher role of whatever you're limiting yourself in that role.And, but, and yet you have to play roles in cult in community Tasshin: to do anything. Yep. Vince: So I guess, yeah I don't know where to go from there. From here. Tasshin: I would summarize our conversation so far as follows. TPOT such as it is an emergent developmental p

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