Church Hurts And

Who is your favorite famous personality, writer, actor, politician? Isn't that an easy ice breaker for a small group discussion? I'm guessing your mind is already wondering to that person, thinking of favorite anecdotes you have about them on the tip of you tongue. But now imagine you have the opportunity to introduce this person to the world, not just with words, but you get to play the part in a movie about them. Today, we welcome stage and screen actor, Max McLean, a man whose credits are easily found on Google, or better yet at the Fellowship for the Performing Arts web page: fpatheater.com, where Max is the founder & artistic director. He is here today because in just a handful of days, on November 3rd, there is a major one day release of a compelling movie telling the untold story of C.S. Lewis entitled, “The Most Reluctant Convert.” Welcome Max McLean. https://www.churchhurtsand.org Closing: Closing: A few words before we close. What church should you go to?  “And above all, you must be asking which door is the true one; not which pleases you best by its paint and panelling…the question should never be: ‘Do I like that kind of service?' but ‘Are these doctrines true: Is holiness there? Does my conscience move me towards this? Is my reluctance to move to this door due to my pride, or my mere taste, or my personal dislike for this particular door-keeper?”  ― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity In my lifetime I have observed faith in God moving from a rather passive assumption in the culture around me, to a rather passive irrelevance. “Which church do you go to?” is a question with far more assumptions than a modern American would now make. Atheists have claimed the high ground in academia, somehow assuming they have won the day, disinterested in revisiting arguments from antiquity which allowed theism to dominate in world history. In my world I come across a lot of atheists and less courageous agnostics. When allowed the chance I often express to them my envy of their assurance. I tell them I might be willing to join them, but I just can't get there intellectually. This usually causes them pause. That's their line. “Did he just say he can't get to atheism intellectually?” What they don't know is that I don't believe they came to a belief in the absence of God intellectually either. It doesn't take a genius to look at a sunset and have a pretty strong intuition that this didn't come from nothing, or chance which is another word for nothing. As prayers are cancelled in public gatherings, I haven't noticed many hospitals and senior centers asking for fewer chaplains. When one is waiting for results of the cancer screening, I don't know many calling out to the local atheist society for help. In you are reluctant to follow thinking which could land you in the camp of Christ followers, perhaps it would be worth the time to meet one of your predecessors. His name is C.S. Lewis. You can find him in the movie “The Most Reluctant Convert.” Oh, and don't be surprised if he becomes a rather good friend. It's Worth a Thought For Church Hurts And, this is John Bash. Go and enjoy God today.

Producer: Church Hurts And is a listener-supported podcast. Please go to ChurchHurtsAnd.org and click on the DONATE button to become part of our support team.  Do you need grace? Tired of feeling judged by Christians? Stay tuned as we look at God, Golf, and Grace with Dr. Doug Rehberg. I have seen huge cultural shifts in my time, a comment worthy of one who admits to being an old curmudgeon. One of those shifts was in the role and status of the clergyman. When growing up, the clergy was among the most respected professions in America. A local minister was revered in a way, often asked to open public meetings in prayer, provide benedictions at political functions, sought after for wisdom in times of crisis, and appreciated for his willingness to visit shut-ins, perform funerals, and preside over weddings. Often his counsel was even desired the way professional therapists are today. While historically clergy have been among the most educated people in society for over two thousand years, they have also been notoriously underpaid, treated at times as “the help,” tipped a little extra at Christmas, or recipients of extra vegetables from the garden. There were other benefits as well, sometimes including a home while they served the church, along with a coveted free membership at the local country club, or at least the opportunity to play on Mondays when courses were traditionally closed. Early in my ministry, I discovered those days were fading, which isn't saying I didn't pine away wishing for them to return. Ministry, as a “profession” was being stained daily by abuses as educational qualifications for ordination, were watered down by many independent and congregational churches.  Today we have a guest a man who straddled that generational gap as well as any I know. Highly respected in his community, he honored his country club for their generosity to him. He used their fairways to minister to many, and find refreshment for his own soul. Let's welcome the Reverend Dr. Doug Rehberg, author of the new book, “God, Golf and Grace.   If you have benefitted from these podcasts, please consider joining our support team at Standing Stone Ministry. ChurchHurtsAnd.org

Have you ever had something happen to you which has haunted you for your entire life? Playing in the woods was my favorite part of childhood in suburban Pittsburgh. As those years passed, the woods continued to provide new discoveries, new paths, new creatures, and invited adventures created by developing adolescent minds. Tadpoles and insects soon came to be replaced by the thought of building our place of habitation, free from adult eyes, nasty weather, and a safe refuge from the watching world. Finding the right spot took many weeks of roaming through the trees, wanting to be close enough to civilization to provide easy access, but far enough in to be hidden even during the winter months when the leaves were gone. Of course, we didn't want to dig too much; a level spot would be ideal. Imagine going through the design and materials stage with the resources of early teens. As you might imagine, all of this was facilitated by the slowing sprawling suburban neighborhood. New construction was asking for little boys to come to steal a few sheets of plywood, 2x4s, and nails. I undertook this project with my partner, Jim, whose father was an attorney. My dad was an insurance man. That's my way of suggesting our trade skills were at best lacking, as was proven by the result. But we had a shack, and we were proud of it.  Over the years of life, I have remained handyman-challenged, constantly in need of friends with developed skills and knowledge. But I have also come to appreciate those who design in the mind structures which provide the walls we live within. Boring designs make me yawn. Poor construction, I find repulsive. Yet somehow, there seems to be a connection between our view of life and the buildings we build and live in. Perhaps they even say something about God. Today we have a guest who can make sense out of these meanderings, welcome Architect Ron Thomas to Church Hurts And. Dr. John Bash is a shepherd with Standing Stone, a ministry that ministers to ministers, a need as important in this time as any in our lifetime. Consider joining this support team at www.churchhurtsand.org.

Ever faced pain? I mean real pain, deep pain, defining pain? Stay tuned as we look today at “Deep Pain with Dr. Mark Talbot” author of “When the Stars Disappear”. Church Hurts And is a listener-supported podcast. Go to ChurchHurtsAnd.org and click on the DONATE button to become part of our support team.  There was one wooded winding road at the bottom of a hill right at the midpoint of my 20-minute jaunt to Jim's house. It seemed like a long way in my early teens, traversing the way only teens can do, unabashedly combining quick sprints, slow jogs, periodic skipping, and rarely a normal walking gait. Somehow this hollow at the bottom of the hill at the end of Murdstone Road seemed special, the terrain prohibiting the constant suburban sprawl for a few hundred yards as the woods grew wild. By this point in my journey, I was ready for some deeper reflection, a safe distance from the place of my fear called home. Few would have guessed the content of the conversation I permitted myself to speak out loud in this private hollow. Almost always it was filled with prayerful questions reflecting confusion about the pain and fear I lived in on Murdstone Road, one of the least safe places I ever have experienced in life. I asked God to do things on that stretch of road I would never have done in public. “Please God, just lift me up and transport me ten feet so I can know you really exist.” I'd close my eyes as I continued walking, waiting to feel the lift, and then laughing at my own silliness. I knew God didn't play those games, but I thought it would be nice and surely strengthen my faith in the midst of the pain nightmare I called home. Pain comes in a lot of forms. We could begin putting adjectives in front of the noun and be here all day, or we could turn it into an adjective and talk about all of the painful people, experiences, churches, muscles, thoughts…you get the idea. So today we turn for help to an unusual place. A real philosopher of all things.    Let's welcome Dr. Mark Talbot to Church Hurts And. Dr. Mark Talbot encourages support of www.christianscholarsfund.org. Dr. John Bash is a shepherd with Standing Stone, a ministry that ministers to ministers, a need as important in this time as any in our lifetime. Consider joining this support team at www.churchhurtsand.org.  

Church Hurts And is a listener-supported podcast. Go to ChurchHurtsAnd.org to click on the DONATE button and become part of our support team. Have you ever had something happen to you which has haunted you for your entire life?  Forgiving the Nightmare with Mark Sowersby “I really don't like Bob. He's rather arrogant and aloof I think.” “Oh, he's not that bad if you get to know him.” “Well, who would want to get to him? He's a jerk.” “Well, he's been through a lot in life. Give him a break.” Who among us has not had a conversation like this? I heard it so often when I was younger I got sick of it, but it got me thinking. What is it about people who manifest unattractive relational skills which drive people away, but whom underneath can be really nice people? And since I don't have the time to get to know everybody, what should I learn about how I should behave? Now that could be a book, but let me jump to the conclusion. Every person you meet has a story. Part of that story will probably include some very vulnerable life-changing events or relationships which made an indelible imprint upon them. I am not talking about the kind of things that come up in a two-minute cocktail party introduction. “Hi. My name is John and I had an evil stepmother who defined my childhood. How are you?” That isn't how it works, is it? But then there are those rare moments, those times in life when another opens up to you in a moment of vulnerability. They wouldn't be doing this if a certain amount of trust hadn't already been built. And then it comes. You hear a bit of their nightmare. Everything changes. They wonder if you will run away, ask more questions, or be frozen by the reality of it all. Today we have someone with a real nightmare and the courage to bring it into the light. He's even discovered some life principles which others have used to get them through their own nightmares. Let's welcome Pastor Mark Sowersby to Church Hurts And. For more about Mark: https://www.forgivingthenightmare.com John Bash is a shepherd with Standing Stone, a ministry that ministers to ministers, a need as important in this time as any in our lifetime. Consider joining this support team at www.churchhurtsand.org.

If you benefit from this radio show/podcast and would like to support the ongoing efforts of this ministry, you can do so by visiting https://churchhurtsand.org.  Donations are tax-deductible, needed, and appreciated more than you know. Have you ever heard of Romantic Theology? Sounds good, doesn't it? Let's find out more with Dr. Michael J. Christensen. After becoming a Christian at the age of 13, I developed some habits and behaviors which could have been considered prudish, ironically quite contrary to my generally outgoing personality. Not committing adultery or fornication before marriage became my obsession for over a decade, carefully studying the meaning of the word, along with fornication, the way other teens might have devoured those certain National Geographics or hard to come by Playboys. How was a Christian adolescent survive a normal increase in testosterone which felt more like an abnormal bomb going off in my body? “Be careful of those things which could naturally lead to inappropriate sexual intimacy in your relationships with girls,” I heard from Rev. Bob Letzinger during a mid-winter conference at First Presbyterian Church in downtown Pittsburgh. Amazingly he confessed to having a climax the first time he ever held hands with a girl. His talk was famous, and we knew it was coming, but did he really say that? And he kept going, warning about the hugs which lasted too long, the times alone without accountability, the dates which lasted too late into the night. As if all of that wasn't enough, my very best friend sitting next to me (who currently holds a very prestigious position as a professor of theology at a premier evangelical seminary) looked over at me and noticed the mark on my neck. He looked like he had seen a snake as his face turned red and his hands started to shake. Quietly and accusingly he pointed at it, trying not to be obvious as the speaker continued, “That's a hickey,” he said with wide eyes. I hadn't known about hickeys until the previous evening with my long-term high school girlfriend, Kathy. You remember those days, your first love, the power of attraction, the depth of longing. Could that tell us anything about God and the Church? Let's ask Dr. Michael J. Christensen. professor of theology at Northwind Seminary. For more about Michael Christensen, visit https://www.northwindseminary.org.     

If you are a jazz fan, you don’t want to miss this. If you aren’t, get ready to learn from an amazing man accomplished in a lot of ways. Today, bass virtuoso, John Patitucci.  PREFACE: Reality, Jazz, AND Faith If you grew up in a church traditional at all, you will remember a worship component called the “offertory.” To me it seemed simply to be a time for the music director to show off his high-brow classical taste, sometimes with a soloist belting out with too much vibrato in a foreign language. With a little more reflection it seemed to be a programing sleight of hand designed to cover the exact amount of time it took the ushers to collect the offering before the organ abruptly broke into the Gloria Patri shaking the very foundation stones of the church with a refrain all knew and were able to sing along without looking at the words. Modern liturgies, which some would consider not liturgical at all, a conclusion with which I strongly disagree, lean toward something less repetitive. I remember one time in a mid-week service the offering was the last thing done before I was to get up and teach. That is the time for a preacher to compose himself, double-check that his zipper is up, make sure the notes are in order, and grab a moment of prayer remembering it isn’t about him. “Get out of yourself turkey,” my spirit would hear. But this Wednesday evening the music director introduced a guest musician to do a solo instrumental piece for the offering. Doesn’t sound too unusual, right? But the guest’s instrument was a bass. “This should be interesting,” I thought. And the bass had six strings, not four. Thankfully I would be getting up in a few minutes to save things if it was a flop. A few minutes later I walked up to the lectern, wiping tears from my eyes, wondering what had just happened. Nothing I could say would reach the heart of people like what they had just heard. I would teach humbly, knowing God had shown up already, thankful to be a part of the body of Christ. Let us welcome today to Church Hurts And, that bass player and renowned virtuoso, John Patitucci.   If you have benefitted from this radio show/podcast and would like to support the ongoing efforts of this ministry, you can do so by visiting https://churchhurtsand.org. Donations are tax-deductible, needed, and appreciated more than you know. For more about our guest, you can check him out at: https://www.johnpatitucci.com

If you’ve ever wanted to scream the classic Rodney King line, “Why can’t we all just get along?” it might have been in church. Today: Crazy Church Boards with Attorney William Larson.  Did you take civics or political science when you went to school? Part of basic education is learning how people have tried to organize themselves to get along in this world. Who can tell whom what to do, why, and how? A few forms of government might stir the cobwebs in the brain: Democracy, Communism, Socialism, Monarchy, Theocracy, Totalitarianism. Now for the pop quiz. Describe each in a few sentences and then explain why you think one is the best. Now let’s get a bit more practical. With a bit of thought, we realize that nations aren’t the only thing that needs to be governed. Schools do too, and corporations, and states, and homeowners associations, and families. Oh, that’s right, and churches too. Uh oh! If you ask people who have been hurt by the church somehow what it was that hurt them, it won’t be long before you are talking about church leadership and church government. If you care to know, it is a sub-category of “Ecclesiology,” a big word for the study of the church. They might not use the word “government,” let alone “ecclesiology, but that’s what they are talking about. Leaders, pastors, priests, elders, deacons—all referring to roles in church government. And wow, they sure have the capacity to mess things up and make one wonder if common sense has been banned from the church board room. Let’s find out more about this from someone who might know. A practicing attorney who has sat on more than a few boards, let’s welcome William Larson to Church Hurts And.   If you have benefited from this radio show/podcast and would like to support the ongoing efforts of this ministry, you can do so by visiting https://churchhurtsand.org. Donations are fully tax-deductible, needed, and appreciated more than you know.

Are you an animal lover? Have a soft spot for the furry creatures of the forest or the brilliant feathered friends above?  Today, Animals, Family,and Photos with Award-Winning Wild Life Photographer and Artist, Holly Cannon. Do you know the three basic distinctions which make up the foundation for any worldview which is considered Christian? They are all found in the first chapter of the first book in the Bible: Genesis one.  #1 There is a distinction between God and creation. There is a fundamental difference between the two and if you get that confused, everything else turns into a mess. In the beginning God. Not in the beginning God and. God didn’t check in with me, or you, when He decided to start this world as much as we might like to believe otherwise. #2 There is a distinction between human beings and all other creatures. Being in the image of God is something uniquely reserved for mankind. God gives man the special responsibility to rule over all the creatures of this world. Its part of the job description we have as humans. Interesting, huh?  #3. Man is distinct from woman. God made man; male and female he created them. It doesn’t matter how confusing the use of language or pronouns are, a man isn’t a woman and vice versa no matter how confusing we might try to make that. Three fundamental distinctions are worthy to consult when things get confusing in this life. Today we are going to talk a bit more about one of them which all too often gets overlooked. What about all those other creatures which God put on this earth the do their thing? If God put them there, I bet they can teach us something about Him, even if they aren’t in His image like us humans are. How are we to rule over them if we don’t know them, study them, and enjoy God’s creation? Ever consider that the first job God gave man? It is common to say prostitution is the oldest profession. That’s not true. Adam and Eve were Zoologists. So let’s talk to someone who has seen animals of all kinds and gives us a peek into their glory. Welcome, Holly Youngblood Cannon to Church Hurts And.   If you have appreciated this radio show/podcast and would like to support the ongoing efforts of this ministry, you can do so by visiting https://churchhurtsand.org. Donations are fully tax-deductible, needed, and sincerely appreciated.

Know what it is like to live with a smile masking pain and hurt so deep there aren’t enough drugs to cover it up? Today, Death, Drugs, AND Church with Jeff & Shannon Bryant. It is hard to imagine this today, but there was a time when the selection of a marriage partner began with the assumption you would choose someone from your family's own ethnic identity and religious affiliation. This wasn't a problem for those whose lives were completely surrounded by only such people anyway. So Dutch married Dutch. Scots married Scots. Mexicans married Mexicans. Chinese married Chinese. Notice I started with national identities because you know it gets messier when we add religion into it. Surely the nice Scottish Lass raised in the Church of Scotland wouldn't want to marry a Roman Catholic Scot, of all things, would she? If this were a discussion group, all of you would be ready with stories of your own. You know someone whose parents were horrified when he married a Russian girl and at the wedding… dot dot dot. These are stories that include way too much relational pain, generational conflict, historical changes, and cultural metamorphosis. They are hard to understand, more challenging to live, and often produce irreconcilable damage to children who find it all just stupid. So let's cut beneath all of those external cultural, national and religious labels and dive right into the home. Here we have a happily married couple with three children. Issues arise as they always do in life, some more significant than others. How does the couple navigate these challenges as they turn to their important fundamental values? She thinks Church would help if they could go together as a family. He's not surprised because she's always been a bit more spiritual than he was. "Go ahead, Honey, take the kids." "But I'd like you to come with us." she implores. To say the least, he isn't tempted.  Years go by with the script remaining the same. He misses that the issue isn't about Church at all, really. His wife longs for faith to play a part in their marriage, their family, their decisions. The bickering between the two of them becomes more commonplace. The once passionate love affair turns into an endurance race, finding ways to avoid the growing gap between them. Now what? Let’s find out. Welcome, Orange County Entrepreneur Jeff Bryants to Church Hurts And.   If you enjoyed listening to this radio show/podcast and would like to support the ongoing efforts of this ministry, you can do so by visiting https://www.standingstoneministry.org/shepherd/john-bash/ or visit us at: https://www.churchhurtsand.org

Ever thought the devil made you do it? Why do you do what you do and how does faith fit into it? Don’t tell anybody, but I’ve gotten addicted to binge-watching a series on Netflix. No, really, don’t tell anyone because the language is way too graphic, and the sex on the screen won’t pass any Sunday School test, but the storyline and imagination is simply overwhelmingly compelling. The series is called Outlander, and it forces one to contemplate the cultural, medical, and spiritual dynamics in the mid 20th century compared to the mid 18th century. How would you handle life if you woke up tomorrow 200 years back in time? Imagine the differences, beginning with no lights to turn on, much less, thermostats to adjust, or prescriptions to take. So why do we just keep that line of thought going for a minute? In the Christian world, it wasn’t long ago Catholics believed all Protestants were heretics, and Protestants all thought The Pope was the Anti-Christ. Psychology as a specific field of study was not even born as myths and superstitions abounded in the areas we might call brain science today. You are doing something crazy? What are we supposed to conclude if we don’t know about brain tumors, chemical imbalances, and personality disorders? Rushing forward to today, do you wonder why you are struggling with faith and relationship issues in a way that seems unique? Do you question the prescriptions which are supposed to take the edge off of your anxiety or depression, still finding yourself unsatisfied? Does trust in God seem to elude you, making you long for the faith you see in others? Let’s ask someone who has pondered these things for most of a lifetime. Founder and CEO of IDT Ministries (Institute for Discipleship Training) and former pastor of Coast Hills Church in Aliso Viejo, welcome Dr. Ken Baugh to Church, Hurts And. If you enjoyed listening to this radio show/podcast and would like to support the ongoing efforts of this ministry, you can do so by visiting https://www.standingstoneministry.org...​ or https://www.churchhurtsand.org​ For more about Ken Baugh:  https://idtministries.com

In our opening, we mention having a “dash of recovery” thrown in. What is that? Recovery? Recovery from what?  If you Google recovery, the first thing to come up will be how to recover a lost or corrupted Word document. That is something we hope we don’t have to do anytime soon. But we are looking at something far more important and fundamental. That’s easy for me to say not panicking over a corrupted Word document containing months of work, but you get the point. Consider the meaning of the prefix “re.” It means simply “back” or “again.” It appears hundreds of times in the English language. Rearrange. Retool. Readjust. Reborn. Reform. Remember. I could go on and on or chose different words if I wanted to redo this intro. And then, have you ever been in a situation where you were responsible for too many things and the deadline was looming? You are running around checking on things and someone says, “I got this covered.” Wow, does that feel good! Covered. Protected. Now we have something which was supposed to be covered but was left out in the elements too long. The storms came. The snow fell. The wind blew and too much exposure has taken its toll. Maybe we should just throw it out. Or, or is it worthy enough to RE-cover. I have discovered that recovery people are some of the most gracious-giving people in this world. They know what it means to be beat-up by life. They know what it means to be exposed to too many storms. They know what it means to have a second chance. You get to meet one of these people who knows something about this subject today. Welcome former Iron Worker and current CEO of NJ Boom and Erectors, Terry Kolb to Church, Hurts And.   If you've enjoyed listening to this podcast and would like to support the ongoing efforts of this ministry, you can do so by visiting https://www.standingstoneministry.org/shepherd/john-bash/ and making a recurring or one-time donation. And, come visit us at https://www.churchhurtsand.org  

Bonhoeffer 1945 and Today I don’t know about you, but I know life seems more complicated to me today than it was years ago. What used to be apparent black and white issues have turned into an insane amount of grays and purples and browns. It reminded me of third-grade art class when we were first allowed to play with paints and shown how to mix colors. Blue and yellow could make the loveliest shades of green. Like every other ADD child, of course, I figured if two colors mixed was good, why not three and four and five. You know the result, that ugly shade of mud which was irredeemable.  Unfortunately, when I am talking about life being complicated, it isn’t as easy to understand as paint mixing. When what we learned was good ends up being not so good, or even harmful, confusion kicks in. If a right isn’t right, and wrong is what we were told was right, how are we act? When what was cast in stone in front of the courthouse from ten commandments is now forbidden to be on public property, who is making the rules, or maybe more importantly, who has changed the rules, and why? In college, I was taught that there were different views of ethics, the two primary ones being Absolute and Relative. Absolute Ethics emphasized what was always true, no matter what. Relative Ethics emphasized that ethics changed based upon the situation. The classic illustration given was based upon lying being bad. If lying is evil, what do you do when the Gestapo comes to the door and asks if you are hiding Jews in your attic. If you tell the truth, they will surely be shot. If you lie, you have violated God’s prohibition against lying. Today we will talk about a man who actually faced those issues, in that time with the Gestapo and Hitler and churches as messed up as church gets. His name was Dietrich Bonhoeffer. To find out more, let’s ask an actor who has played Bonhoeffer all over the world in the play Bonhoeffer 1945. Welcome actor/playwright D. Paul Thomas to Church, Hurts And. www.ChurchHurtsAnd.org www.bonhoeffer1945.com

Christian Podcast | Heart of the Artist I was the ripe old age of 22, settled into a graduate school outside of Chicago, and attempting to adjust to the north again after a marvelous year working in Key Biscayne, Florida. My father had died the previous year from sorosis of the liver, leaving me a bit lonely, while at the same time feeling quite adult. I was on my career path into church ministry, already quite settled into my theology of choice, yet eager to learn, and get my walking papers to be a legitimate clergyman. Attending a singles group in the city, I ran into an all-too-cute girl who wouldn’t quit talking about her church in the suburbs. Actually, everyone seemed to be talking about that church, so I allowed myself to be dragged along one Sunday, more interested in the girl than I was in the church. I knew things were going to be different since the lobby was packed in the theater hosting this new fangled trendy church, awaiting the previous service to let out. It is hard to imagine nowadays, but back then churches were mostly known for their pipe organs, choirs, and liturgy. The site of a band set up on the stage was different. But then, four female vocalists with microphones and smiles started to sing in harmony, quite well by the way. And then it happened. I saw the drummer lift slowly from his seat at the drum kit as the singers paused. With no shame or apology, and all the strength the young man had, he came down on the snare and the beat was on. Welcome to the modern church. If I had to compare those three years in the seminary with the impact of that one church on my thinking, I’m not sure which was greater. I do know this, I will forever be grateful. Why do we do what we do in church? How much of it is because of outdated traditions, and how much of it is led by God’s instructions in the Bible? Today we have a special guest who has spent his life asking such questions, picking the songs, rehearsing the bands, and leading the worship. Today he continues to serve the church as the director of Heart of the Artist Ministries. Let’s meet him. Welcome, Rory Noland, to Church Hurts And. https://www.churchhurtsand.org http://www.heartoftheartist.org

Inside a Princess. I am guessing you think your intuition is pretty good. You read people rather well. Trust your instincts. “Trust the Force, Luke.” At the core of the romantic ideal in America today is the scene of two unknowns who look across a crowded room, happen to catch the eyes of each other, and it is immediately there. You feel the electricity as it sparks between them and shudders through their body down to their toes. Nothing will be the same again. Perhaps a third notice the silent exchange, camera angle catching it just right, and now knowing voyeurs react, and the plotline is set. Will this be the beginning of a great romance or a tragedy of epic proportions? With a whiff of smell salts, we know real life would end up with some twisted combination of the two. I relate to the writer's desire to want to create the tale, rather than be another typical movie-goer, at the mercy of the author’s and producer’s imagination. How would we write the tale? Want to have happy endings? Then craft the story that way. Want to see tragedy turned into miracles? Write it that way. The power of authorship can be powerful. But what do you do if are enamored with a story already told, a story known to many, and told for millenniums? What if you see it differently? What if the villain isn’t a villain, and the heroine isn’t quite so heroic? What do you do then? Let’s make it harder. What if that story is in the Bible? Really? A Bible story that may have some insights people have been missing, and missing badly? If told another way, there are those in this world who could be helped by telling it, bringing it to life, and giving a whole new twist a dust-covered Sunday School lessons long forgotten. What would that be like? Let’s find out.  Welcome, K.D. Holmberg, to Church Hurts And. https://www.churchhurtsand.org https://www.kdholmberg.com

Virginia Woolf once said, “If you do not tell the truth about yourself, you cannot tell it about other people.” Let me repeat that, “If you do not tell the truth about yourself, you cannot tell it about other people.” That is rather scary if you think about it. Four years ago, I went through a life-changing, radical, character-defining, unnerving transition. I’m not going to tell you exactly what it was because I am not ready to get that vulnerable, but I will say to you: I am not the same person as I was four years ago. I thought it was just a choice, until every day I found out something new about myself. Here is the strange about it. Of all the things in life I might have doubted, one thing I did not doubt was I was the world’s number one expert in John Bash. Nobody knew me as well as I knew me. How could they? Isn’t that rather self-evident?  I once heard a woman say, “I’m not much, but I’m all I think about.” I wasn’t quite that bad, but I did claim a certain amount of self-awareness. I had my share of psychology classes, two graduate degrees, was a minister for 25 years, with more than a few therapy sessions. Doesn’t that qualify me to know myself? In short, the answer is a resounding “No.” Have you ever heard the question, “Would you rather be happy or right?” Most people who ask this expect it to be rhetorical. I have the kind of brain which doesn’t do well with such questions. Right or happy? I ponder it. Doesn’t this open the possibility for a happy idiot? Let’s not dismiss “right” too quickly, right? I am particularly appreciative of people who can come into such pondering and help me to think about life differently. Their way to truth is not nearly as propositional as I would like, is much more sensitive and caring, and usually includes some fun stories along the way. Today we have such a person. Brian Mann is an artist, communicator, churchman and currently holds the title of Story Ninja at Citycoast Creative in Sonoma, California. Welcome, Brian Mann, to Church Hurts And. ChurchHurtsAnd.org

One of the pains of getting older comes in attempting to accept changes, even embrace changes, rather than staying stuck in old ways and acting precisely like the old people at whom you used to roll your eyes. By allowing myself to be stereotyped as an old curmudgeon in the introduction to this show, I guess I've admitted that I don't intend to bend over backward to embrace the latest trendsetting fashions. Perhaps the most difficult of all changes for me are those that come into the world of ideas and language. I knew I was in trouble last November when the Oxford University Dictionary changed the definition of "woman." Really?  How am I to talk if you change the meaning of words on me? If this is starting to sound too obtuse, take the time to watch the 2019 movie entitled "The Professor and the Madman" with Mel Gibson and Sean Penn. The meaning of words does matter and helps us as we try to understand and navigate the world around us, not to mention relationships within that world.  Now I can admit to being a bit pedantic about some things, and I know for a fact that our special guest today can be, but at some point, I have to put my foot down and scream, "This Matters." It isn't just words. It is words. Have I lost you yet? Let me give you one example, one word, and then see where it takes us. Ready? TRUTH. What does the word "truth" mean?  Growing up, I learned that everyone could have opinions, some more right than others, and the essence of good conversation was exchanging ideas to learn and be influenced by others. All decent people were seeking the truth, so such discussions were outstanding. But something happened. Somebody switched the definition of "truth" with opinion. Instead of "the truth," people were talking about "my truth." If I try to explain my confusion any further, I'll confuse myself, so today we have as a guest the author of LIFESTYLE: A Biblical/Philosophical Study of Christianity & the Culture it Produces. Maybe he can help. From Western Ohio, welcome Dr. Richard Knodel to Church Hurts And. ChurchHurtsAnd.org

Everything changes when one is introduced with the title of “Pastor” or “Reverend” or “Father” or “Preacher.” An individual self-consciousness seems to invade the social space, consistently altering the subject under discussion. People somehow seem obligated to qualify themselves, dropping a sentence or two about their spirituality, church attendance, or lack thereof. Frequently there may also be a reference to childhood upbringing, ethnic traditions, or family practices. Since I was often introduced to such a title, I was self-conscious of the expectations. I was now the church or religion representative as the discussion twisted to a disagreement or disillusionment with “organized religion.” Over the years, I usually discovered I was in agreement with the person expressing their discontent and fully understood why they chose to disengage.  While I have never taken a poll, I certainly have a lot of anecdotal evidence to conclude people’s primary distaste for organized religion is founded in what they perceive as hypocrisy. Leaders allow themselves to be perceived as more holy, more together, closer to God, and wiser than the average Joe. It can be quite off-putting, but it is also very seductive. Who doesn’t want someone with an into God? Why listen to sermons if the one preaching it doesn’t have something you don’t have?   But then the hammer comes down, and the stories unfold. This preacher didn’t know how to keep his pants on. That leader, she had her hand in the till. The neighbor always going to church was rude to me. In some ways, this whole discussion can get mundane to me. I’ve had it hundreds, if not thousands of times. That’s sad, but cause it isn’t mundane. It is so the opposite of what the Bible teaches from beginning to end, perhaps nowhere more prominently than in the leading figure of Old Testament Israel, King David. Let’s find out more from our two guests today, who I will introduce in a moment after an excerpt from their work “The Odyssey of King David” read by D. Paul Thomas. ChurchHurtsAnd.org

Relationship Pain. Ever been excommunicated? I mean, kicked out of a church kind of excommunicated? Sounds like we are talking about the Middle Ages, doesn’t it? Does that really happen anymore? I mean, there are churches for every species of thought under heaven. One church I visited had a blessing Sunday for pets. Choose your sexual preference, a god off the menu, liturgical stripe you prefer, and you can find a church that fits. Why would anyone get excommunicated when one can just walk down the street to open arms of people equally indignant at the idea, to begin with? It doesn’t take a whole lot of self-reflection to realize we excommunicate people from our lives all the time. The word comes from the Latin “excommunicare,” which means to put outside of the community. We can put it more simply by staying in English and just looking at ex and communication. I bet you have a bunch of people in your life who would fit into that category: “I am not going to communicate with you anymore.” You have done something so offensive, so repulsive, so defiling to my standards, I no longer will have you in my life. This gets particularly difficult when it happens in the most intimate relationships, particularly the family.  When I was a young pastor, already starting my second church, and had a second child on the way, I had a very unique friend. In his beginning years of fatherhood, he happened to be a nuclear power engineer and personified what any pastor would like to have in the church. He was the greeter from heaven, making everyone who dared walk through the doors feel special, and welcomed. Come back again, and he would remember your name, ask about your week and point you to the coffee before the service. When the lights went off at church, we would find our way to his small starter home, where the ping pong table was my immediate destination. Laughter began, and extended volleys were interspersed with deep theological questions and a passion for unbelievers throughout the world. In so many ways, everything just seemed perfect. Let’s see… Welcome, Brian Holian to Church Hurts And.

Radio Show Surprise Ending. When I was growing up, professional athletes were a little less “professional” than today. T.V. cameras and interviews after the game often included “Hi Mom!” and thanks to their parents for getting them to such a success point. Back then, I found it a bit annoying, where now I miss the innocence and authenticity of it all. Having done this show for the past year, I have been surprised by how many of our guests end up talking about their parents when we got into the deeper life issues. My mother died shortly after I turned three. My father died when I was only 22, and I’ve felt handicapped in life. I couldn’t take my wife-to-be to meet my Dad and it would have shown her a lot about me. I loved my Dad, but his failings and flaws impacted me for years into the future. In fact, they still do. When a new baby comes into the world, it is common for the adoring family and close friends to make comments about how they have physical attributes of the mother or father. I find it ridiculous, impossible to discern, and as reliable as your daily horoscope. But as life goes on, often the genetic and character traits passed from parent to child are undeniable. Parents teach us what we should be like and model for us how to navigate this world with varying degrees of success. So what do you do when that thing called a “nuclear family” betrays you, dies, gives you up for adoption, turns to booze, or just flakes in the myriad of other ways possible? What is it like to live life trying to fill out a form that asks for your father’s name, and you don’t know the answer? We’ve all seen the T.V. shows of adopted children becoming adults and going in search of their “biological” parents. They are gut-wrenching or emit heartwarming conclusions much rarer than the editing room floor would tell. Where would one go to find such stories? Certainly, Jails and Prisons would be a place to start. The reality is one wouldn’t need to go to such lengths. Just listen when people around you begin talking about their own families. Strange and unique combinations of people, betrayal, and heartbreak lurk beneath the surface. Today we have your local small business banker in Orange County. Need a business loan? He’s your man. He’s a great father to two handsome teenage boys. Active in his church. Let’s open the phone lines and ask him about family. Welcome, Tim Dyson to Church Hurts And.

I grew up in a home where I was encouraged to read, perhaps not in the healthiest of manners, but encouraged to read nonetheless. My natural adversarial personality did not accept such prodding easily, my push-back coming in the form of, or preference to, physical activity. Give me a ball of any kind, and I was happy. I happened to have the good fortune of growing up in Pittsburgh, the second cloudiest city in the US, with winters unfriendly to little boys wanting to run and play outside, our periodic football games in the snow a rare opportunity. Nasty weather drove us indoors, restlessly impatient, looking for something to do. Once bored enough, the ample books awaited to be opened by hesitant youthful eyes. While a few classics were consumed in such moments, before long I discovered various genres more to my liking. The Hardy Boys mystery novels were consumed along with Nancy Drew and her equally challenging exploits. Next escape novels from WWII were discovered in abundance. Reading itself could be an escape I realized, something much needed in my abusive, unfriendly childhood home. I guess there is something good about learning the value of books for escape and enjoyment before accepting their value for learning itself. It was many years later I embraced the enjoyment of education, expanding one’s mental geography while traveling through time between the pages of a book.  I picked up a new author a few months ago, wondering if he would be worth reading. My rule is to read at least fifty pages before rejecting the book for good. I was cynical about this guy for reasons not worth elaborating upon, but I got through the first fifty pages, more than a little intrigued. I’m on my fourteenth book now and recently discovered I have the option of going for fifty more. The characters are deep, real, multidimensional, and struggle with the same issues in life as I do. They live in times I want to know more about and in places, I want to go. Their relationships struggle with things I struggle with and their doubts seem to match my own as well. So today on Church Hurts And you get to meet that author along with me. His name is Michael Phillips and he doesn’t do many interviews. He’s a writer, not a public speaker, but he has graciously agreed to come out of his Shire, of sorts, to be with us.  Welcome, Michael Phillips to Church Hurts And. ChurchHurtsAnd.org

OC Talk Radio Show: If you are not a reader, you may be tempted to hang up, turn off, or otherwise ignore this show when you hear the title "Inside a Book Doctor." I encourage you not to because we will look at some things that may confirm suspicions you have about books, or at least I hope we will. Books are funny things.Many years ago I started a church that grew in numbers year after year. Many of our new members were converting to faith after years, if not a lifetime, of rather casual attitudes toward God, the Church, the Bible, and Jesus himself. Their conversions seemed as authentic as could be, with newfound excitement to learn about God’s word, develop lifestyles as believers, and reform their views of the world and their families. It was exciting.But then something happened. Some of these people started showing up to church with really weird views and even stranger questions. An inordinate amount of interest in the Book of Revelation and Daniel seemed to be a common thread. Where were they getting this stuff? I was the only pastor they had ever had, provided the only teaching they had sat under in a church context.Some took this even further and started to become quite judgmental of others who didn’t believe as they believed about all kinds of things. Questions concerning the rapture and demon possession arose. It was causing quite a stir. I was befuddled. What was I doing wrong? It caused me no small amount of insecurity and sleepless nights.But it didn’t take extraordinary investigative skills to discover that Christian Radio, TV, and Christian Bookstores were not my friend as a pastor. With the sincerest of motives, many of these new converts were simply looking to learn more about their faith and tuning into things to enrich their Christian growth. Books with pretty covers and enticing titles were bought from the local Christian bookseller to supplement what they were getting from their local church.So this young pastor embarked upon a journey to teach discernment to my congregation. Not everything with cover and the name of Jesus is true. Not everyone with a microphone and title in front of their name is worth listening to.So how are we to know? How do Christian books get into print? What’s the real story? Today we have one eminently qualified to give us an insider's view.Welcome, book doctor, Dr. Steve Halliday, to Church Hurts And.

What are you good at doing? I mean really good. Did math come easy for you? What about sports? Do you enjoy adding up the numbers while someone else is going out there and doing the sales? Maybe cooking, or comforting those who are hurting, or motivating the discouraged. Perhaps you are a teacher? What are your unique gifts and talents?If you were ever involved in a church of any kind, you probably heard that God gifts people, everyone, but not all the same. He gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as teachers and the list goes on. A creative God creates creative people (Imago Dei -in the image of God) and all us of getting to enjoy the creations of both. Unfortunately, some of us struggle to discover our own gifts, our own talents, and our place in this creative creation. Part of this unfortunate situation also may include unhealthy envy of those who have the more obvious gifts, forgetting something really important.Do you know why the God of the Universe gives His creatures gifts? What is the purpose of all this diversity, beauty, and skill display? There is an answer and if it is not on the top of your mind, it may be why you struggle with knowing your own giftedness.Here comes the answer. Why do you have unique gifts? Ephesians 4:12 & 13: “to equip the saints for works of ministry and to build up the body of Christ, 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ.”That’s a mouthful, but it is powerful. Let me put it another way. Your giftedness is to help other people, break down divisions, and reveal the true God. That’s the job of the Church. Think we could use that today?This show is titled “Creatively Faith.” We are going to meet an artist who pushes creativity to a new level. She is fun. She is powerful. She is full of faith, and her story can not but help to inspire. Welcome, Hope Harrison, to Church Hurts And. ChurchHurtsAnd.org

Is your life going smoothly this week? Had a smooth beginning to the year? Would "smooth" describe the nature of your life? I'm just guessing here, but I suspect I haven't gotten a "yes" from you yet. Smooth is an expected ideal much more than a reality experienced with any frequency. Many years ago, when I was a young minister, I ran into a middle-aged pastor at a meeting of pastors. He stood out in the crowd. To me, he seemed cool. His dress was elegantly casual. His hair combed handsomely without perfection or gel. His smile was quick, and good humor seemed to follow his conversations. Ready with my newfound theological precision, I approached him along with a few like-minded friends to check him out further. It really was not too unlike dogs in a dog park, sniffing out another breed. He greeted us, that twinkle in his eye of one who knew what was coming, and he was up to the task.It didn't take long for the kidding to begin as he played with our minds, allowing me to call attention to the small smooth stone he wore on a chain around his neck, knowing I was giving him the very opening such an adornment obviously desired. I don't remember the story, but I do remember the conversation which followed. It was about how sin played into preaching. Did he tell people they were sinners in need of a savior, or did he soft-pedal that part of the Gospel message?"Let me tell you about the people who come to my church," he said. "All week long, they are told they are not good enough, they don't sell enough, they don't work fast enough, they aren't charming enough or energetic enough, caring enough, and they don't produce enough for the bottom line." "Now," he continued, "how am I supposed to tell them they aren't good enough, righteous enough, holy enough, spiritual enough, or godly enough and expect them to believe we offer anything different from the world?" He made his point.Today we have someone who knows a few things about rough roads, ruts, and pit holes. He paves them for living along with his over 270 employees. Meet Daren Young for our show "Filling in the Ruts."Welcome, Daren, to Church Hurts And.ChurchHurtsAnd.org

In 1982 I was ordained in downtown Chicago. The service was a big deal. My favorite preacher, Steve Brown, whose God-like voice you hear on the intro to this show, came and preached. Lots of my friends were there, my little start-up church which is still alive and well today was hosting the occasion. It had as much formality to it as I can stomach, including what is called a “Charge” to the newly ordained minister, me. That was delivered by my favorite Philosophy professor who had driven 420 miles to be there. Dr. Tom Gregory. I was humbled and honored by his presence.Do you know what he said? I’ll never forget it because it made me squirm. His opening line was, “John, you have beautiful feet.” I thought I was going to die. This was a very proper curmudgeon, not given to the type of shocking lines I liked to deliver. What was his point?He went on to quote from the prophet Isaiah (52:7), “How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of those who bring good news.” The Apostle Paul quotes this in his letter to Romans asking how people can believe if they have not heard. So feet are this wonderful image of the good news of Christ being taken from one place to the next. My professor knew of my desire for people to hear the good news of the gospel, particularly those who had heard bad news in the places good news was to dominate. At Church Hurts And, we know that is too often the Church.But let us get back to feet. Do you remember when athletic shoes were called “Tennis Shoes” or sneakers? The only brand names I remember were PF Flyers and Keds and the color options were black or white. Now, do you remember your first pair of athletic shoes which weren’t canvas? If you aren’t old like me, you won’t remember that.What we have on our feet today is simply an established fashion statement, and today we get to glimpse inside that athletic, fashion shoe world, jump into the basketball court and then take a trip to the Philippines with a man who knows the inside story.Welcome, Shoe Dog David Corsi to Church Hurts And.ChurchHurtsAnd.org

If you don’t like golf, don’t hang up. I understand. And if you don’t like golf, and you find yourself continuing to find a way to get to the golf course, really don’t hang up! Today we will be talking about golf, but we are going to make links to real-life, which could be soul-changing for you.For 25 years of my life, I was a pastor and preacher. I built churches, preached every Sunday, met with hurting people, and tried to be the real McCoy in contrast to the charlatans who seems to get news headlines I never coveted. Sometimes I would get the recordings of my sermons and listen to them. It was a horrifying experience. I could never say what I wanted to say in as clear, precise, and compelling way as I desired.In contrast, I would listen to great contemporary preachers who communicated the very things I was trying to convey. Why did they seem to be able to preach so much better than me? Was I mistaken in my sense of call to the ministry? While my churches tended to grow in numbers, spirit, and vitality, shouldn’t they be growing faster? Perhaps if I was more gifted, more holy, harder working, and wisely strategic, I would see more fruit from my labor.You know exactly what I am talking about. Maybe you weren’t a preacher or a public figure submitting to the never-ending commentary of critics around. Still, you have had the voices in your head telling you, you aren’t good enough, smart enough, talented enough, or charming enough to make the grade. Do you let it beat you down?Today we get to learn from a man who has lived much of his life in the rarified air of golf’s elites. He’s played in all four majors, even setting a course record at the Master’s for a first-time participant in 1978 when he came in 5th. This man is a “pro” in many ways, an author, dedicated family man, and has much more than a casual relationship with Jesus Christ.Welcome, Wally Armstrong, to Church Hurts And.

Sinful Saints Revealed. How is that for the title of our show today? It sounds like a bad headline from a trashy newspaper found in the check out line in a second rate grocery store. Sinful Saints Revealed. Really?Did you know that the word “saint” means many different things depending on who you are talking to? Roman Catholic and Orthodox traditions have a formal understanding of saints, including canonization established first in the 10th Century. It may surprise many that sinlessness is not a requirement for sainthood in any tradition. With the advent of the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century, the whole notion of Saints was turned on its head. Anyone who is truly a Christian is considered a saint. If this sounds confusing, it really doesn’t have to be. In his first letter, the Apostle Peter tells us, “You yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood” (1 Peter 2:5). Sing praises to the Lord, O you his saints, and give thanks to his holy name. (Psalm 30:4)To avoid digressing down this ages-old theological side road, we can all admit that no matter what words are used to describe Christians: Christian Leaders, Clergy, and or other public figures in Christendom, we can have a tendency to fall into hero-worship or to villainize them. Both lack the honesty characterized in Biblical Revelation, where Saints are sinners, and both sides are glaringly revealed.Today we will look at a couple of people who might be considered in the informal subjective lineup of Protestant Fathers. It is easy to make them bigger than life, forget their frailties, and feel insignificant by comparison. But their stories are excellent and worthy of knowing to motivate us to be encouraged by the saints and reminded why they needed a Savior too.Our storyteller today is one of my favorites from the other side of the pond.Welcome back to Church Hurts And, Englishman, Londoner, Pastor, Scholar, and Tour Guide from heaven, Ben Virgo.ChurchHurtsAnd.org

Of all the tales of redemption one could tell at Christmastime, there is none for me quite like Charles Dickens’ novella written in 1843 entitled “A Christmas Carol”. Four spirits visit the classic character Ebenezer Scrooge in his fitful sleep, causing insight and discontent only to be resolved by a Higher Power working his magic in another human soul at the celebration of the birth of a baby.Speaking of nightmares, how are yours doing these days? Isn’t it interesting how fascinated we can get with dreams, pondering their significance, wondering if they really do have meaning for us in real life, and even seeking advice from others who claim to have some expertise in the subject? Interestingly, there is no shortage of biblical references about dreams and even prophetic significance in some.Consider for a moment the most significant component of dreams and nightmares. What is it? You know: we are sleeping. We wake up in a sweat or laughing or smiling. But we wake up, we hope. There are times we refer to something in real life as being dreamlike or nightmarish, and when those lines begin to blur, it gets scary. I must admit there has been a component of that in recent days during the pandemic. It all seems somewhat surreal, from the history books or a science fiction novel. We keep wondering when we will wake up, or at least, wish it was just a nightmare from which we could wake.What is your worst nightmare? Are you trying to scream, and nothing comes out? Do you wake up covered in sweat? What if you discovered it wasn’t a dream and you weren’t waking up, and it just kept going?Today we have the unique privilege of having an illustrious guest who knows a thing or two about nightmares, probably worse nightmares than you’ve ever had, and with good cause. His name is Dave Stevens; some just call him “Cowboy." and I want to jump into the middle of his nightmare. Welcome, Dave Stevens to Church Hurts And.

Standing Stones. Ever thought much about these unusual large standing stones, which probably bring to mind the famous Stonehenge in Wiltshire, England? You probably haven't, and for a good reason. We don't know much about them. These sizeable ancient rock formations come with little explanation. We guess the oldest to be 12,000 years old found in Turkey. Similar strange circles and other shapes pop up all over the world. They far predate any known language or alphabet, which goes a long way towards explaining why we don't know much about them. The engineering and precision of their placement are frequently so advanced they defy any logical explanation. Many also have unique astronomical dynamics to them, which are nothing short of impressive.As curious and baffling as these structures may be, one thing we do know: they have stood the test of time, weather, civilizations, and wars. They force us to ponder humanity before written history. From where have we come? To where are we going?For many such questions are irritating and cause impatience. There is food to be bought, children to attend, plants to water, and calls to return until there isn't. When the busyness stops, the loneliness kicks in, the fears arise, where do you turn?For two thousand years in the Western World, there is an answer to that question. Those big haunting questions land us with a visit to the local pastor or priest. This particular profession has provided a resource for the big questions in life. The clergy have listened, provided the skills of useful sounding boards, given wisdom and solace to point us beyond ourselves to something which makes suicide an unattractive alternative.But what happens when the busyness stops, the loneliness kicks in, the fears arise, and you be the clergy?Today we have with us two people who decided to answer this question. Interestingly, they chose to name the organization Standing Stone. Let's meet them.From Newport Beach, California, Jim and Debbie Hogan, the founders of Standing Stone Ministry, welcome to Church Hurts And.churchhurtsand.org

How to Christmas. If I asked you to tell me about how you do Christmas I bet you’d start telling me about family traditions, decorations, schedules for opening presents, typical attendance at Church services, and stuff like that. Right? Now you want to tell me about the lights you’ve put up in the midst of the pandemic and who can’t travel to see whom, and we are so far afield we can’t see the baby through the pine needles. But before I send you on a guilt trip which is just too easy to do, I want to ask a more thoughtful question. How should we do Christmas if we want it to have anything to do with the founder.In my not-so-humble opinion, anything we do regularly can get distorted by the familiarity which loves to breed contempt. Christmas comes around every year whether we like it or not. But why? Why is this something worth celebrating, or is it?When I was a new Christian I went through a stage which I jokingly refer to as my Jehovah's Witness stage, questioning every tradition which is not explicitly commanded in the Bible. Just because something is a tradition doesn’t make it good or right. If you’ve ever been willing to talk to a Jehovah's Witness knocking on your door they will explain why birthdays and holidays aren’t worthy of celebrating. They may have a point. So why has the church determined for two thousand years they are wrong and put the holy in holy day for the birth of Jesus?And, and we like “and” here, what can we do the put the holy into our Christmas? How can we learn more about the One we are celebrating? How can we teach our children and grandchildren in such a way they don’t fall prey to the consumerist secularists, cynical communists, or grasping pagans in the midst of their winter festivals and chilly solstices?To answer this question we have asked back one of our favorite guests at Church Hurts And, Dr. Perry Downs, a former professor of Christian at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, the alma mater of your host. He’s real, practical, foster parent to over 30 blessed children, and just real enough to be worth listening to.Welcome back Dr. Perry Downs to Church Hurts And.churchhurtsand.org

It was one of those moments in life recorded in my brain in full color and stereo sound even though there wasn’t much color, and there wasn’t much sound. It was November in rural Southern Maryland, where the grayness and chill of winter overtook Autumn’s charm. My candidating sermon had been given on that Sunday morning in a middle school cafeteria in front of forty people, including children and bugs. The congregation asked me to leave as they discussed whether or not to extend to me an invitation to become this Presbyterian church’s organizing pastor. My eight-month pregnant wife was at home in Florida, awaiting the verdict. This decision would dramatically change our life.I methodically walked the parking lot outside, wondering how long the meeting would last and somewhat curious about the only other human outside at the moment. The man was buried under the hood of an aging automobile (and must have been enjoying the cold about as much as I was). Knowing as little about cars as I do, I was wise enough not to go over and offer help with my nervous shaking hands.Imagine my surprise when I saw that the human form who unfurled from under the car hood sported a Roman clerical collar and pleasantly introduced himself. His church was a church plant as well and was meeting in the school gymnasium. He very quickly extracted from me the situation I was in. Without hesitation, he closed the hood and insisted on accompanying me in these tense waiting moments, assuring me of his prayers and best wishes when the call came to return.I received the invitation from that church. Father Paul and I became anchors of sorts in the interfaith council in the county. More importantly, he became a friend. Father Paul, educated beyond impressive, a significant leader in the covenant community movement, currently serves as the Msgr. at St. Stephens Martyr Catholic Church in Foggy Bottom, Washington, D.C., six blocks away from the White House.Welcome to Church Hurts And, Father Paul Dudziak.churchhurtsand.org 

Children change the matrix. Did you ever notice this? You are in an argument with your husband, and it is getting heated. He’s being stubborn, won’t get your point, and keeps saying the same things over and over. About to notch it up one more level on the intensity scale, you hear the unmistakable sound of children’s feet approaching. You take a deep breath as you push back your hair and wipe the tears from the corners of your eyes. Children change the matrix.Having started three churches, I am well aware the children/youth dynamic is critical for a balanced church to grow. Young families who may have ignored God for years start asking about the impact such might have upon their children. Do they really want their own offspring to grow up with no knowledge of the Bible, no understanding of Christian values, and no connection to the heritage which drove the progress of Western Civilization in Medicine, Science, and the Arts?“What church should we try out, dear?” she asks her husband. “I don’t know if I can do that church thing again. Can we put it off another month or so? The Steelers are undefeated, and I don’t want to miss the impact on my fantasy football team today.”With some movement of the Divine in strange and mysterious ways, a family may end up back in church. Trying to act casual, the Mom and Dad navigate the maze and signs to the children’s wing, smaller churches apologizing for not having a program just yet. Everything is awkward, and the service hasn’t even started.Will your children or grandchildren know anything about the church you avoid due to your past pain and disappointment? Could kids be an avenue to awakening a desire deeper down in you than any building with walls could contain?Today we have an expert in kids and church. She sings like an angel, prays like a warrior, is the friend everyone wants, and is just real enough to sneak into Church Hurts And for the next few moments.Singer/Songwriter Jana Alayra, welcome.churchhurtsand.org

Looks don't matter. “It is what is on the inside that counts.” Most of us grew up hearing some version of this. In reality, I'm afraid this little ditty may not hold up so well, but at least it causes us to reflect. Dating sites without photos don't go very far. We want our partners to be deep and thoughtful and caring, but we also want them to have an appearance we find appealing.The weekly service structure for a church may be considered the outside. Surely for the beginner or visitor, it is what gets their attention. Historically we call it the liturgy; the basic structure for a worship service which includes various readings, creeds, hymns, rituals, and practices that are done in a certain way. Some traditions even have what they call a liturgical calendar, following the same readings and celebrations as others on the same dates around the world.Stand up, sit down is the stereotype common to the layman. To the uninformed, it can seem meaningless, repetitive, and lacking in relevance for daily life. The 1970s and 80s brought about a spasmodic reaction to even the lowest of liturgies, perhaps most dramatically symbolized by organs being replaced by guitars, robes by open collars, rituals by attempts at relevance.Ironically this non-liturgical form became its own liturgy of sorts. While denominational distinctives became less obvious, wording and music selections of the contemporary church movement were surprisingly uniform. It seemed to be working to stem the tide of attendance decline, for a while anyway.Against this tide stood traditionalists of all forms, denominations, and theological persuasions. Many of them were overtaken by the waves they tried to stop. Others rode their churches down until the doors closed.Our guest today refused to be defined by those categories swirling around him. He still wears a collar. His title officially is “The Very Reverend Father”. He values the Book of Common Prayer and the 39 Articles and considers himself in the mainstream of the Anglican Community. If I keep going you are going to think he is boring, but you’d be wrong.Welcome to Church Hurts And The Very Reverend Chip Edgar, the founding rector of Church of the Apostles in Columbia, South Carolina. 

Are you tired? How about stressed? Do you find anxiety in your stomach these days, which is frustrating to diagnose and almost impossible to remove? Are you reaching for the Tums container more than usual? I didn’t need the Poll taken last week by the APA (American Psychiatric Association) to know this. Still, it sure didn’t surprise me to find out that 72% of people are anxious about the Presidential Election. That’s just 8 percentage points less than the results for the virus called Corona. Politics. Political correctness. I already need a Tums with a few Advil to follow.There is one thing I know for sure. My view of politics is better than yours, and how high my need is to make that point abundantly clear is, at the very least, a combination of two things: my personality and my dysfunction. Let me put it another way: My dysfunction and personality will determine how badly I need to prove you are wrong.But this is Church Hurts And. What does all of this political stuff have to do with church? Don’t we live in American where we have the separation of Church and State? Today we are going to look at that from a different angle. Church done right is about real life, a real God, and real people. And real people are stressed, and it has snuck into our families and our friendships and our sensitive little personal constitutions.So today, we are going to try to get practical. Political correctness can get rhetorical and theoretical very quickly, not to mention petty. But Thanksgiving is coming. Family isn’t theoretical. Friendships are needed, and they aren’t hypothetical. Co-workers are real, and some of them have appalling political views. What do you do? How can you handle this better?Today we have as a guest an annoyingly patient man, and I mean to the extreme. He’s a great preacher, sometimes sensitive pastor, and terrible joke teller. Soon he will retire from being the Senior Pastor at Faith Bible Church in Glendale, AZ.Welcome to Church Hurts And, The Rev. Doctor Daniel Robert Lind.churchhurtsand.org

Discipleship was the trend in Evangelical Christian circles when I was in school. Young converts or “committed Christians” were encouraged to talk a more mature Christian into “discipling” them. Many made it a formal process, going through books together or meeting at a particular time with a syllabus of sorts. For others, it was a more informal process, making sure it included regular contact and prayer together. For those in the recovery community, you will know it as being similar to having a sponsor. For those in the business or academic world, it was rather like having a close mentor.I had been fortunate to have some great mentors whose behavior functioned as a discipling relationship, but none would have allowed it to be labeled that way. Now that I had arrived at Seminary, I figured it was time to make it official. In a new city, a new school, and mostly lost, I looked around to see who I could trap into “discipling” me.To picture what it is like being a new seminary student, remember what the first day of High School was like, or college if you will. It wasn’t a monastery, and no vow of poverty or celibacy was not required. I ended up landing upon a hippie-like professor of Christian education who responded by denying my request, pleading busyness. With reverse Tom Sawyer thinking, I shrugged off the rebuff and told this Professor that I’d love to get off campus, and if he needed any help around the house, like painting a fence or something, I’d love to help. He laughed, asking me who put me up to this. I didn’t get the joke. As it ends up, he had been whining around the office about having to paint the fence the forthcoming Saturday.Fast forward a few days in 1979, the smell of Fall in the air with newly colored leaves just beginning to drop. There are two unskilled laborers with paintbrushes working on a yard fence, and the laughter started. One might never have guessed these were Seminary types.The seminarian went on to graduate and plant churches. The Professor became head of the doctoral program with a long, storied history at the school. Today they are in front of a microphone on Zoom during the pandemic on OC Talk Radio.Here to discuss Education, Learning, and Growth, we welcome to Church Hurts And, Professor Perry Downs.churchhurtsand.org

When the virus called Corona hit Southern California’s shores, I was determined to practice the spiritual principles I have learned in recent years. Believing that God is in charge of every molecule under heaven, I had good reason not to get all stressed out. The equation added civil unrest and political monologues, destroying joy and fellowship on Facebook and social media. I consciously tried not to get caught up in what seemed like so much folly in the dialogue.Disengaging is simply not in my DNA, so I focussed my attention on learning more about the history and background to provide meaningful context to the authentic human history we are living. My mental meanderings ended up taking me to a place I wasn’t expecting, and a time I wasn’t expecting, and through a location, I prefer to avoid, Washington, D.C.Follow my thinking here. We are a nation founded mostly by English malcontents or Christian refugees or adventurous, restless pioneers, depending on what version of the story you want to tell. Yet when my overly visual mind travels to Washington, D.C., my senses are assaulted not by Christian symbols or architecture at all. In fact, there is nothing uniquely British about the city either. Then I remembered this signature American city was designed by a Frenchman, Pierre Charles L’Enfant, who preferred to be called Peter. Now don’t get me wrong, just because he has a fancy French name doesn’t mean he wasn’t a patriot. He was with General Washington at Valley Forge as part of the Continental Army. No other credentials are needed. Few dispute his dominant influence on the design of our capital city. He also was commissioned by General Lafayette to do a portrait of George Washington and became good friends with Alexander Hamilton.What visual images are coming to your mind as I bring up Washington, D.C.? Certain buildings? You know architectural design 101 you were taught in 7th grade. Come on. Doric, Ionic, and Corinthian. Ringing a bell.To see if this mental meandering can take us anywhere, I’ve invited back to Church Hurts And a London Tour guide. I know it sounds weird, but his specialty is the classics, so welcome back to Church Hurts And Englishman Ben Virgo. 

Where do you go when you get in trouble? I mean real trouble. Since this is Church Hurts And you may be trying to outthink me and are guessing I am about to launch into the availability of the God of the Universe in prayer, but not today. Today I am asking this in a really tactile visceral way. I mean the kind of trouble where you may be standing alongside the road with a policeman telling you to show your hands. Your heart is beating fast. Your mouth wants to protest your innocence but you aren’t allowed to talk. Turn around. Put your hands behind your back. I find it interesting how many hot topics today end up in the legal arena. Race? Are Blacks being treated right by police and in the courts? Legal. Religion? Do Governors have the right to limit church attendance yet not protests? Legal. Politics? Should the President nominate a Supreme Court Justice during the election season? Legal. Somehow the law and lawyers just seem to keep getting dragged into the discussion.Many people are not aware that historically theology and the law were sister disciplines. If that seems confusing to you, go back and try to read a theology textbook from the 17th Century. Each word is carefully selected and parsed, closely analyzed for accurate meaning. Any good explanation of the Gospel is always in the context of the Old Testament Torah, or Law. Paul’s epistle to the Romans explains that quite well.Do you understand why a sculpture of Moses holding two tablets is centered above the portico on the East Side of the Supreme Court? Legal details can be confusing, but one should have no doubt that the big laws, “Thou shalt not kill.” “Thou shalt not steal.” “Thou shalt not bear false witness.” weren’t made up by our founders. Learning to respect other people and get along in society has been a challenge of the human race as long as it has existed.So today we are turning not to a theologian, but to an attorney. He’s not uniquely spiritual or church qualified. In fact, he is one of those attorneys you hope you will never need, a “Criminal Defense Attorney”. He has argued in over 7 cases where the prosecution was seeking the death penalty. Murderers, rapists, and thieves, or at least those accused of such, have sought out this man in their moment of desperation. Let me bring him in: 1978 Student Body President of Westminster College in New Wilmington, Pennsylvania: William Difenderfer, Attorney at Law from Pittsburgh, PA. Welcome to Church Hurts And.churchhurtsand.org

Life just isn’t fair. There is not a parent alive, probably in any culture, who doesn’t have burned into their memory the way their child expressed this sentiment. It’s not fair. It’s just not fair. Most likely that scream or whine or tearful plea comes at the behest of oneself relative to another who has been more favorably treated, rewarded, or blessed.My earliest memory of this came when my older sister seemed regularly slighted as I was the one who got attention or praise seemingly at her expense. As I grew older, I became aware that others seemed to have nicer parents, fancier toys, and hospitable homes. It didn’t seem fair.With maturity came a development of the same concept into right and wrong. What wasn’t fair now became downright wrong. That’s just wrong. This ethical conclusion takes away any doubt or relevance of corroborating details. It’s just wrong and brings with it a visceral gut-wrenching gnostic determination.Depending on the event, result, people involved (particularly if it is me) another stage occurs in which fairness and wrongness seem inadequate as standards. Now we get to evil. This is no longer the polite “bad things happen to good people” scenario. This is when the heavens and earth shake in our life and our foundations tremble.As with most feelings and issues of significant import it doesn’t take long until they get bumped up to the higher court, even the Supreme Court, but in this case, it is the heavenly court. The court above all courts over which resides the Judge over all Judges. Now he must answer us. We’ve cycled it in our brains ad nauseam. How could even God in heaven give an explanation as to such a thing happening if He makes any claim to goodness?If you have never had such a struggle, I am glad for you, but for many, such an occasion meant the end of Church in their life, and correspondingly also their belief in God. It may not need to end that way. Today we meet a young man well-qualified to speak about difficult subjects. He has youtube videos that will make you squirm, about issues you didn’t even know existed. He happened to come into my life in a time I couldn’t see through the haze. Let’s jump into his story. Welcome to Church Hurts And Zack Collie. churchhurtsand.org

I have always said the “C” word changes everything. Are you struggling with things in your life today? Money problems? Family issues? Health difficulties? Problems at work? Have you given those things the “C” word test? You know, cancer. How do your problems stand up next to the call from the doctor, “You have cancer.”I got that call this week for the first time. Now I don’t need to stretch out the story. It’s Basal Cell Carcinoma which is the most common form of skin cancer and next week I will go in and they will perform a Mohs procedure on the little mole size spot until they get to tissues without any cancer in it and I will walk out cancer-free. But, it was the “C” word, and it caused me to pause and check my perspective.The day before a good friend of mine got the “D” word. That’s a bit more shocking than the C-word. Dead. I doubt he heard it, but he knew it was coming. My silly head goes back to games played as a child where you would run around yelling “You’re dead!” We don’t think much about it. It’s just a game until it isn’t. My friend is dead, for real. That too caused me to pause and check my perspective.I laugh when I hear people make the statement “I don’t like change”. It just isn’t true.  Of course we like change if it is in the right direction. Your investments have changed to the best position you’ve ever been in.  Good change. Your relationship is healthier, your blood pressure is better. Good change. Your reputation among your friends is at an all-time high. Great change. Change can be great.Psychologists will tell us that real deep change is almost always preceded by pain. Without pain to motivate our lazy tails, we are fine on the couch cruising through life. So life has a way of providing that stimulus, that pain to move us along. The stubborn among us will resist thinking we will win the battle against pain. Bad fight to pick.The ancient Greek philosophers were a lively bunch trying to figure out life and understand change while seeking to discover what was absolute. What didn’t change? A guy by the name of Heraclitus is the one who made me smile even though he was given to depression.  What is Absolute? His response was “Change”. Change itself is the one thing we can count on. You can never step into the same river twice.To bring us back down to earth and help us deal with change today we have a uniquely gifted traveler on this earth. He’s the Pastor of Bethany Community Church outside of Seattle and it won’t quit growing. I call him the reluctant Pastor. Author Breathing New Life into Faith, Colors of Hope (much needed just now as it is a call for Christ-followers to be about mercy justice, and love) and The Map is Not the Journey: Faith Renewed While Hiking the Alps.  Welcome, Richard Dahlstrom.

165,148. That’s how many deaths from COVID-19 to date in the United States. Everything in life has changed as we live in fear and shock from this once in a lifetime pandemic.  67,367 that’s how many people died from drug overdoses in 2018. 70,237 was the number the year earlier. Wait. I’m talking annual numbers here. Not a one-time pandemic. It doesn’t take many years of these numbers to far exceed the deaths from COVID-19. It is simply breathtaking.“THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC is devastating America. Overdoses have passed car crashes and gun violence to become the leading cause of death for Americans under 55. The epidemic has killed more people than H.I.V. at the peak of that disease, and its death toll exceeds those of the wars in Vietnam and Iraq combined. Funerals for young people have become common. Every 11 minutes, another life is lost.So why do so many people start using these drugs? Why don’t they stop?”That was the beginning of an article in the New York Times in December 2018 entitled “A Visual Journey Through Addiction”. It quoted one young woman describing her drug use with the words “It like being hugged by Jesus.”The reality is that until one's life is personally touched by drug abuse, it really is just another sad statistic. It’s like hearing about a war on the other side of the world compared to feeling a bomb go off in your back yard. Why pay attention? Why care?So today we are going to bring it closer to home than I would prefer. We are going to talk to a young Orange County woman who has worked in almost every aspect of the recovery industry in the past ten years, and yes, it is an industry. Her credentials? Really? Her credentials are mainly found in the story behind the resume. Growing up she excelled on the soccer field, her blonde ponytail bouncing behind her as she sped by the opposing team juggling the ball as if she was born with it. Her laughter and joy-filled the field. She was a preacher's kid too, going to church every Sunday for four hours and a few times during the week. I bet you feel it coming, don’t you? Kaitlyn Anne, Welcome to Church Hurts And.

Never in my lifetime has politics felt so contentious. I know as a preacher I am given to hyperbole, but not this time. This is an ugly, visceral, palpable, and vomit-producing level. It can even make family gatherings stressful, divide generations, and kill any notion of a wonderful community. If I know anything about history, it can certainly kill a country, and not a few are suspecting that is at stake.If that isn’t a difficult enough beginning let us add church into it. I wonder how many people would put politics on the list of things that attributed to them moving away from the church, not going to church, or being stressed by the church. This certainly was true for my father.One of my mentors, Steve Brown, used to often say before a sermon: “I have a lot of political views and they are a lot better than yours are, but you aren’t going to hear them from the pulpit because this is a place for God’s word and we have come here to see Jesus and Him only.” I loved that for a lot of reasons, not the least of which was the humor inserted into something that could otherwise be quite divisive. I followed his lead and was always careful not to get political from the pulpit. I wonder how successful I’d be now if I preached every week. Everything seems to have been thrown into the political basket.On the other side, I had a preacher friend of mine come out publicly about his political views right down to for whom he was going to vote. Now he’s retired and I’m glad, but I was embarrassed for him. He waxed eloquently about the why’s, but I knew he was alienating people right and left, mostly only to get stroked by those who agreed with him. I prayed for his serenity.Who can help us here? Our guest today is uniquely qualified to speak on this subject. He’s one of those Reverend Doctors, which means he has a doctoral degree and is ordained and I will let his job title suffice to let us know he is bringing more than personal opinion to this discussion. The Vice President of Theological Initiatives for the Institute for Faith, Work & Economics, Dr. Art Lindsley. 

I was only 15 when I first thought about going into the ministry. In light of the fact that I hadn’t grown up in church, and my mind was filled with sex (isn’t that what 15 means?), it was a unique spiritual dynamic. Still, it was at that age I received what is considered a “call” in the church world. That was a long time ago, but isn’t it interesting I talk about a call to the ministry and sex in the same breath?As I look back upon it I never really really veered from that direction for the next thirty years. Wait, am I talking about my call to the ministry or a mind filled with sex? Sometimes I wonder if they aren’t the same thing. Uh oh. We are headed for trouble here.Since I’m in the distant past I might as well go down those ancient streets. I remember wondering what it would be like if I really did become a minister as I pursued an education in that direction. I became acutely aware of how clergy were perceived in the world around me. Remember the televangelists' scandals? Jim Bakker. Jimmy Swaggart. Famous T.V. preachers who not-so-euphemistically got caught with their pants down.I’m not sure what the numbers were, what the cause and effect formula was or who exactly is to blame, but I do know that church attendance has declined significantly in my lifetime and the dignity and respect of clergy has gone with it and lots of people roll their eyes when the subject comes up. You see, it didn’t stop with headlines. Almost anyone close to the church knows of some story where sexual scandal and church got into their world. This minister did this. That priest did that. The volunteer who disappeared with rumors following did what? Just this week I talked to a man who is a generous donor on my support team at Standing Stone Ministry. He’s a deacon in his church and takes meals to Seniors during this pandemic called Corona. He was telling me about the background checks he had to go through to volunteer to take meals to seniors.So today we brought in an expert uniquely qualified to speak to this subject. Sex, Church, and Ministers. Oh my.Welcome to Church Hurts And Rev. Ned Beadel.churchhurtsand.org

Before we go, I’d just like to take a moment to say a word about perspective. Ben Virgo on the Christian Heritage Tour gave me a perspective of London I simply never would have had if I hadn’t gone on that tour. It wasn’t all new information to me, I knew some of it, but it sure was different seeing it, matching places to events and people. I hope you’ve gotten a bit of that tour in the past few minutes and maybe had your perspective adjusted a bit too.Many years ago I had a similar perspective-changing Tour given by Ray Bakke in Chicago. I was living in the city at the time, but just a few hours with Ray changed what I saw every day. Really? The street means that much and that happened there? Wow.When you get next to experts your perspective is likely to get threatened. If they really know their stuff, like Ben knows his stuff, you will see things differently, maybe hear things differently, and perhaps even feel things differently. When the plaque on the old building you walk by says, “Within a few feet of this place John Rogers, John Bradford, John Philpot and other servants of God suffered death by fire for the faith of Christ 1555, 1556, 1557” it gives one reason to pause. “Just tell me you don’t believe something and I won’t burn you to death.” What do you believe in strongly enough not to give in to that?Yet almost invariably with perspective growth, comes nuance. Nuance is very underrated. Life is so much easier with black and white perspectives. Good-Bad. Righteous. Sinner.Surely I may be wrong, but I suspect some of our propensity to wanting things that way is because it is easier. This king is good. That queen was bad. Royalty is all bad. Presbyterians are good. Catholics are bad. Churches are filled with hypocrites. You get the point. Or do you? Life, people, and churches aren’t easy to put in a box with “All” connected very successfully. It’s a mixed bag. We are a mixed bag. Churches are a mixed bag. Add time to the equation and it gets even messier. Someone who was really bad can end up being really good and someone really good can end up being a scoundrel.You know how I can prove that. Look in the mirror. See that person. All good? Nope. All bad? Nope. We need a lot more nuance.I came not to call the righteous, but sinners. Nuance. You bet. And that’s what we mean by AND. Leonard Ravenhill from Leeds in Yorkshire England once said:"Jesus did not come into the world to make bad men good. He came into the world to make dead men live!” Now that’s nuance and that is Worth a Thought.churchhurtsand.org

PART 1. I was disappointed when my hostess in London informed me she had set up a tour for us to go on. I’m not a tour-going kind of tourist and I was sure no tour was going to show me to the kind of places I’d want to see. “But it is the Christian Heritage Tour” she explained, a bit hurt by my obvious lack of enthusiasm. I bit my lip, not wanting to appear any more unappreciative than I already had. So now I’m going to get some sappy tour of Church architecture by a typical Anglican who will explain away the empty churches with some cultural psycho babble. Surely the guide won’t know much about the truly great preachers of London I would want to know about. As I sat on the steps of St. Paul’s Cathedral, best know to this American mind for the wedding of Charles and Diana in 1981, little was I prepared for the bouncing smiling tour guide to be another act of God’s humor upon me. Ben Virgo was his name. Surprisingly he was not a stayed traditional Anglican at all and proceeded to take us on a walking tour of London which turned the day into one of the most meaningful and memorable days of my life.I’d like to keep telling you about it, but let me cut to the chase. In a way I had never understood, Ben helped me see how much of key moments in history can be tied back to London and even to specific places in London. So in the midst of all the questions and unrest lately here in the US, I figured I’d test out Ben’s theory. What can we learn about racial issues from London? What about disease and pandemics? What about God and Church and Hurts?So with no further adieu, Ben Virgo, Welcome to Church Hurts And from the other side of the pond.churchhurtsand.org

Losing My Religion. That was the title of a book written in 2009 with this subtitle: “How I Lost My Faith Reporting on Religion in America and Found Unexpected Peace”. It was a great read. It ended up being the atheist book of the year and certainly one of my favorites. It was well written, a fast read, thoughtful, and seemingly quite authentic. I’d love to have the Author William Lobdell on this show sometime, but let me ruin the plot of the book so you can buy something more encouraging. After positive and apparently life-changing experiences with authentic evangelical men, Lobdell gave his life to Christ. Then after being one the key people to really explode the news stories about sex abuse replete in the Roman Catholic priesthood, he was overwhelmed by the pain of the victims and concluded, no good God would allow that. This world is out of control, quite incompatible with any notion of a Benign Deity. I bring this up today, not to jump into the field of apologetics and refute the arguments of Lobdell which are really just another rendition of the problem of evil, but rather to remember at Church Hurts And that for many people the Hurt of Church is quite often located specifically at the intersection of clergy and congregation. Two years ago Forbes listed Clergy and the 8th most trusted profession right beneath Judges, which I remind you are usually attorneys and right above auto mechanics. Imagine. The World Economic Forum in 2018 found that clergy weren’t even in the top ten. Pastors, Ministers, Priests, Preachers, call them whatever you want, are key to our perceptions good and bad of church today and in our personal experiences. I think this is worth another look and to get that we have a specialist in the subject, which in and of itself makes him a scary dude. Sam helps match congregations with the right clergy to try to avoid some of what I am talking about. Sam Hamstra, welcome to Church Hurts And.churchhurtsand.org

Sir Michael Caine, the famed two-time Academy Award-winning English actor once said:  “There are only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.” Now that was a great comedic line and the Dutch are a fun and easy target, but I’m not kidding around today. I don’t use the word “Hate” lightly either and to make matters worse, those two things I hate are directly about religion and politics, the two untouchables for a proper party to be had. So let’s get it over with.The first thing I hate is going to make you want to turn off the radio, roll your eyes in irritation, and wonder what in the world is wrong with me. What is it? Gnosticism.  I hate Gnosticism! It is even spelled with a silent “G” which is annoying and if you don’t know what it means, stay around, because I hope you will learn to hate it too. It is evil, from the pit of hell, won’t go away, shows up in every culture and every generation, and wreaks havoc whenever it raises its nasty head.The second thing I hate came from the pen of a spoiled adult German boy running around in London after being kicked out France writing home to his more affluent relatives asking them to send money to support his indulgent rebellious lifestyle and writing. Untold millions of deaths can be traced back to this thing we know as Marxism. I hate Marxism!Wait. Isn’t this a show about Church? Where’s the love?Our guest today knows more about the two things I hate than most people in the world. He’s current. He’s relevant. He’s educated beyond impressive. He’s controversial. He’s honest. He’s real. He’s also a bit of a hero to me, so I may stuttering a bit during this interview realizing I can preach a sermon in one of his pauses and we don’t have that long. Dr. Voddie Baucham, Welcome to Church Hurts And.

I’ll never forget the first time I heard someone mention WASP and realized they weren’t talking about those bee-like creatures who sting and are really scary. I was quite young and when the acrostic was explained to me I realized I was still lost. I only understood what one of the four words meant. WHITE ANGLO SAXON PROTESTANT. Ok. I thought I got the WHITE. The other three, forget it. I’m guessing everyone has their own story of how they came to discover the identity of their family, skin color, racial background, national identity, religion, etc., but it isn’t something that comes very intuitively. These are all categories that require some degree of learning and context.As the years went by I learned a bit more. Anglo Saxon in my mind just meant English or British and I didn’t get the difference between those two at all, but at least I had a bucket into which I could put Anglo and Saxon. Protestant? That was a bit harder. We went to a different church building (as if we ever went) than the Catholics did and we could eat meat on Friday and if we had a cross hanging in our home it wouldn’t still have Jesus hanging on it. And our ministers wouldn’t wear those long dresses or black clothes during the week with a white thing called a collar.But so what? What really mattered was discovering what this meant to others. Some seemed very proud of being WASPs, like attainment of sorts, and somehow superior to other categories. And there didn’t seem to be variations of it. Never heard of WASC or WHITE ANGLO SAXON CATHOLICS. OR BASPs. BLACK ANGLO SAXON PROTESTANTS.I could go on, but you get the point. What’s the big deal? For my Grandmother is was a huge deal because she was DAR (more initials) or Daughter of the American Revolution and even an elite one because she was also a DAM, Daughter of the Mayflower. That’s about as close to royal pedigree as one could have as it was explained to me in Elementary School. My blood must be red white and blue.Now I know that WASP was referring to a certain combination of Race, Heritage, and Religion which somehow meant I had hit the jackpot. I was privileged. Over time I came to discover that lots of people didn’t like WASPs and the subtleties and nuances surrounding the issues weren’t going to go away-certainly not anytime soon if you read the same newspapers I do.So today I decided to bring in a special guest. She is more white than me. She is way more English than I am and she’s worked in the City in London and on Wall Street in Manhattan with names that look exactly like the ones on your checking account. Privileged indeed. Born English. Raised in Cambridge. Mother of 3. Miss Julia Kate Nand. Welcome to Church Hurts And. 

Are you a good host or hostess? If you aren’t sure of that answer, let me tell you how you can figure it out. Do people like coming to your house? When you are hosting, is it a fun time had by all? Now let me tell you a secret. I have come to believe that there is a direct inverse proportion between how much time you take fussing to make everything perfect before people come over and the degree of fun people have. How many of you felt at ease when grandma pulled off the plastic covers from her treasured meticulously upholstered furniture so you could “make yourself comfortable”?How about those decorative candles and embroidered hand towels in the guest bath? Aren’t they charming? Years ago I read an article telling people to go around and light all the candles in the house and blow them out before people came. Who feels comfortable seeing someone light a fresh new candle that’s been sitting as a decoration for unknown months? I have already made a category leap in this opening monologue. Did you catch it? I started by asking if you were a good host/hostess? Then what did I do? I switched to talking about your home and details which can easily get our attention-furniture, towels, candles. Let’s go backward. What about you? Are you a person people want to hang with? Is your hair done right? Do you wear nice clothes? What about you draws people in and what about you give people a deep desire to be lonely? Today we have as a guest someone who is laughing because he understands everything I have said so far as bizarre as my thinking has been. I’m really not sure what he is an expert in. He doesn’t have a ton of impressive degrees, the sales of his books have fallen through the floor since his mother died, but for some unknown reason, people like to be around him and even listen to his wise advice.Rich Hurst, Welcome to Church Hurts And.

Part 2 with Francis. I don’t know many Indians. As an American, I want to say, “You know like Indian Indians, not like American Indians.” I can not imagine how ignorant that must sound to the people who make up 1.3 billion of the world’s population. If you need something to put that in perspective as I do, that’s over three times the population of the United States.But wait. What race is Francis? I bet you don’t know. In fact, I bet you are not sure how many races there are in the world. Your mind is saying 5 right? or is it 4? or 7? I’m not going to tell you and if you do know that answer, right now you are feeling insulted and want to tell me. But do I mean race as a biological category or a sociological one? Which is it? Do I really mean ethnicity? Wait again. Name those races. What are they? Once again I bet you can’t name the major races, let alone the corresponding ethnicities and countries they mainly populate.But you feel strongly about the race dialogue going on in America, so much so that there is a good chance your friendships are being effected. You are insulted by those who are taking a different view from you. You may think they are ignorant and backward and bigoted or they may be ill-informed and pushy or snobby. I have some friends who are considering cutting off friends and even posted on Facebook if you have XYZ view, you can unfriend me. I don’t want to even be around you. Really? Some of you aren’t hearing a word because you are stuck on Black, White, Indian, Asian and you are counting on your fingers as you do it. What are you missing?We could do the same exercise in Major World Religions if we wanted to. What are the major World Religions? I divert.Back to Francis. I don’t know many Indians. I don’t have many Indian friends. Francis is a new friend for me and I suspect he will be one for life and it is going to be good and deep and filled with humor and teasing and a mutual passion for the God we love, the one Triune God who reveals Himself in Holy Scripture.Francis is going to teach me more about Indians, the amazing diversity among these people, their land, their history, their food, and cultures. I’ll probably even pick up novels about India that I never would have considered before I met Francis.His skin has different pigmentation than mine. Of course, I notice it. I’m not blind. Do I care? Not really. Bet you don’t either.  Why? Because it is Francis. You know his name, His mission, his values, his love of God and country.Why do I know Francis? Because as a middle-age man he came to my country and he learned about my people and from my people. When he met me, he smiled and shook my hand. I know Francis because he came here.I don’t want to push an analogy too far, but that’s also the story of the Gospel the Church has taught for 2,000 years. God made the trip. He came here, to this earth, in human flesh. His name is Jesus. He cared. He loved. He taught. He died. The message: “In my Father’s House there are many mansions. If it were not so I would have told you.” Want one of those mansions? Check out a church today who can tell you more about that. The real estate up there in Heaven sure isn’t cheap, but the price has already been paid. And that is what we mean by “AND” and that is WORTH A THOUGHT.For Church Hurts AND this is John Bash. Love somebody today and Enjoy God, won’t you?

What god do you believe in? Imagine that as the icebreaker question at a party or business roundtable. Quickly we would realize why the old adage came to be, “We can talk about anything but politics or religion.” Violate that rule and trouble is sure to brew. But isn’t it a legitimate question? What god do you believe in?I work a lot in the recovery field and talk of a “Higher Power” is very important there. People will refer to “their” Higher Power. It seemed strange to me at first. Do people think that God is like ordering a Hamburger? I’ll take my God with an extra pickle, hold the judgment, drop the adultery for sure, and give me an extra dose of love sweet love.Reflection upon this took me back to my first Philosophy of Religion course, day one. There you learn to distinguish between religions which are “Theistic” (believing in one God) and those which are “Polytheistic” (believing in many gods). Sounds simple, right?Guess what? I’ve watched in my lifetime the world around me (I mean in the USA) transition from overwhelming predominant Theists (even Christian Theists going to church) to unapologetic unrefined Polytheists. Think about that for a second. Who is your higher power? What god do you worship? Sounds like a smorgasbord to me. How could this have happened? Wait. I have an idea. It is my Western thinking. We can learn from the East. They have different logic and certainly a different view of God. If you are not confused yet, you are not listening. Today we have as a guest one of the best people in the world to help us understand what is baffling to most. He grew up in India. Ended up becoming a Christian in college to join the 2 percent of that country which is so, even went on to become a minister and came to Southern California to study further and get his doctorate at Talbot Theological Seminary. Now he spends most of his year in India ministering to ministers. Welcome, Dr. Francis Burgula to Church Hurts And.

I love the Socratic method. It’s part of what makes me a curmudgeon. It went out of style a long time ago as the premier didactic tool of education, but I had the good fortune of having some professors who didn’t drink the cool-aid of modern educationalese and still taught that way. One had to come to class prepared knowing the professor would likely challenge their knowledge and arguments for or against the issue under discussion.“What do you think about that Mr. Bash?” might come out of the professor’s mouth at any moment, making daydreaming quite a perilous activity.I snuck in late to a special event one time which was featuring one of those aforementioned professors. You knew him, Pete. His name was R.C. Sproul and hundreds of people were in attendance. As he was apt to do he broke into a Latin phrase to make a fine point which always got people’s attention wondering if he had lost his mind. Like quoting Latin is going to make something clearer, right?In dramatic fashion he turned his back on the audience and walked toward the blackboard he would use long after they went out of style, raising his hands in the air he said, “What does that mean, BASH?”This wasn’t my church. I was a stranger there. So much for my trying to sneak in late inconspicuously. Immediately turning 50 shades of red I responded with the right answer from the middle of the crowd, wanting to sink through the floor only to have my professor say, “No! It means…” and then he went on to say loudly with the microphone exactly what I had said. He was such a turkey.What does that have to do with today? Men, Macho & Ministry? I want to do a bit of that Socratic method with our guest, even play the devil’s advocate, if you will.Really? In this day and age to focus on men? Doesn’t this guy know that’s as out of fashion as the Socratic Method?Dr. Pete Alwinson, California native, but has made Orlando home for decades, has a ministry to men that keeps growing. Talk about bucking the trend. Doesn’t he know that there’s not much difference between men and women? It’s the 21st century. And in church too? Bet he believes only men should be leaders in the church and the Bible ought to keep its sexist language and that God has a beard like a grandFATHER.Why in the world would someone focus on men and church in this day and age?Welcome Dr. Alwinson to Church Hurts And.