Podcasts about Six Apart

Back to talking Data with Ed Anuff, CPO, DataStax.  With experience at Google, Apigee, Six Apart, Vignette, Epicentric, and Wired, Ed talks the future of databases with AI and GenAI.  05:04 The Crazy life of Ed Anuff08:12 DataStax defined10:06 Vector Database11:58 GenAI and RAG Pattern18:03 DataStax Differentiation21:39 NoSQL vs SQL24:27 Common AI Use Cases25:47 The Secret to ChatGPT31:10 DataStax 2min Pitch31:42 The Future35:47 Bring AI to the DataLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/edanuffWebsite: https://www.datastax.com/Want to be featured as a guest on Making Data Simple?  Reach out to us at almartintalksdata@gmail.com and tell us why you should be next.  The Making Data Simple Podcast is hosted by Al Martin, WW VP Technical Sales, IBM, where we explore trending technologies, business innovation, and leadership ... while keeping it simple & fun. 

Back to talking Data with Ed Anuff, CPO, DataStax.  With experience at Google, Apigee, Six Apart, Vignette, Epicentric, and Wired, Ed talks the future of databases with AI and GenAI.  05:04 The Crazy life of Ed Anuff08:12 DataStax defined10:06 Vector Database11:58 GenAI and RAG Pattern18:03 DataStax Differentiation21:39 NoSQL vs SQL24:27 Common AI Use Cases25:47 The Secret to ChatGPT31:10 DataStax 2min Pitch31:42 The Future35:47 Bring AI to the DataLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/edanuffWebsite: https://www.datastax.com/Want to be featured as a guest on Making Data Simple?  Reach out to us at almartintalksdata@gmail.com and tell us why you should be next.  The Making Data Simple Podcast is hosted by Al Martin, WW VP Technical Sales, IBM, where we explore trending technologies, business innovation, and leadership ... while keeping it simple & fun. 

アメリカのスタートアップ創業者への体当たり取材を繰り返すうちに、ビジネススクールに入学し、ビジネス経験もないのにスタートアップの立ち上げに参画した話。01:19 大学で二留。「自分の名前で仕事がしたい」という思いから記者の道へ03:51 就職時にはバブルがはじけ、面接に行くだけで交通費がもらえる時代ではなくなっていた05:35 新聞系出版社に入社06:18 3年目の人よりもいい記事を書いて、いい評価を得ようと燃えていた新入社員07:09 ジョン・スカリー氏とは？09:24 AOLの日本進出に関連してスカリー氏が来日しているという情報をゲット10:52 早朝5時前にホテル前に張り込み12:16 ジョギングし始めたスカリー氏をスーツ姿で走って追いかける！15:47 ”Are you Mr. John Sculley?”16:35 朝8時からのパワーブレックファストに招待される18:27 スカリー氏からの手書きメッセージ付きの名刺21:23 タクシー車中でジム・クラーク氏（Netscape共同創業者）に取材22:04 取材時間が15分から50分に大幅拡張23:28 経営者と記者の共通点：質問がよくないと面接でも交渉の場でもいい答えが引き出せない25:16 教育係のデスクから教えられたこと「一番前に座る」「一番最初に質問する」28:19 経営者に取材を重ねても、なぜ企業は上場するのか、上場したら何が起こるのか分からなかった29:14 ビジネススクールへ入学した理由30:45 Six Apart社の日本での立ち上げは最初断って、その後に断りを断って入社エピソード内で取り上げた情報へのリンク： ジョン・スカリー氏と走った思い出（「スティーブ・ジョブズ1.0」の真実を読んで）プロダクトマネジメントとプロダクト開発組織づくりを専門とする及川卓也。アメリカ・ニューヨークでスタートアップ投資する関信浩。マーケティング・広報・プロダクトマネジメントを幅広く手掛ける上野美香。テクノロジー業界で働く3人が、気になる話題を毎回、異なった視点で語り合います。XCrossing website https://x-crossing.com/XCrossing Official X account (former Twitter) @x_crossing_及川卓也 @takoratta関信浩 @NobuhiroSeki上野美香 @mikamika59

記憶や興奮は、時間が経つと曖昧になってしまうもの。なので少し冷めてから振り返ってみる方が事故は少ない。一方でこのポッドキャストみたいに「盛り上がり」がないと新しいことは始められないもの00:44 関、うっかり以前に所属した会社名で自己紹介してしまう03:07 シルク・ドゥ・ソレイユのアレグリアを見に行って、そのあと感想戦をやったら演目の詳細を思い出せない。記憶はもろい04:05 写真をみて演者の衣装で演目を思い出す04:32 会議のあとに思い出せないとか記憶があいまいになるのはまずいのでログる04:42 会議の前後に必ずインターバルを設定する理由07:57 すごく盛り上がって書いた企画書を翌日見ると、なぜ盛り上がったのか分からない08:54 冷めた状態が正しいのかも09:06 自分で考えついて「すごい」と思ったことも、いったん置いてみる10:35 このポッドキャスト「XCrossing」のはじまりもノリだった11:12 KPI設定や撤退条件などを話していた企画会議12:41 XCrossingをやろうと決めてからもうすぐ1年なので、アンケートでご意見を聞きたい16:12 ポッドキャストで聞いた内容を文字で引用したいとき、GoogleのBardに聞いてみる19:10 アンケートで聞きたいこと：XCrossingを知った経緯、聞く頻度、聞き方20:42 ポッドキャスト・ツールのOvercastがとてもよい23:43 「ラストマン・イン・ザ・ダーク」全盲の捜査官が聞けるという4倍速の再生25:15 真っ暗闇でビールを注いで飲む26:16 視覚障害者の娘さんは複数の音を同時に聞いているっぽい28:56 純度100％の暗闇から外にでるとき、光の感じ方が今までにないものだったリンク Six Apart： https://www.sixapart.jp/ アレグリア（シルク・ドゥ・ソレイユ）: https://www.alegria-jp.com/ LISTEN： https://listen.style/ Overcast：https://overcast.fm/ ラストマン・イン・ザ・ダーク（現在は終了）：https://lastman.dialogue.or.jp/プロダクトマネジメントとプロダクト開発組織づくりを専門とする及川卓也。アメリカ・ニューヨークでスタートアップ投資する関信浩。マーケティング・広報・プロダクトマネジメントを幅広く手掛ける上野美香。テクノロジー業界で働く3人が、気になる話題を毎回、異なった視点で語り合います。XCrossing website https://x-crossing.com/XCrossing Official X account (former Twitter) @x_crossing_及川卓也 @takoratta関信浩 @NobuhiroSeki上野美香 @mikamika59

Zornitza is the Founder and CEO of BSPK, the top-rated SaaS clienteling platform for digital curation and personal shopping. Zornitza is also a serial entrepreneur and an accomplished builder, and leader of teams. She was among the first employees of Wired (acquired by Conde Nast), eGroups (acquired by Yahoo) as well as Six Apart, imeem, Prosper and other Silicon Valley technology innovators funded by Sequoia Capital, Benchmark and Accel, among others. Zornitza is a graduate of Stanford University (BA in International Relations) and The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania (MBA, Finance). Her passion is the quest for innovation and discovery at the cutting edge of consumer technologies, content creation, and leveraged means of communicating and transacting in the mobile age.   In this episode of Takin' Care of Lady Business®, Jennifer Justice sat down with Zornitza Stefanova, CEO and founder of BSPK, a SaaS platform that offers personalized customer service to various industries. During the episode, Stefanova explained how BSPK allows sales advisers to connect and speak with customers one-on-one using their software, making the customer experience feel memorable and personal. This, in turn, strengthens customer loyalty and helps businesses grow.   Here is what to expect on this week's show: Prioritizing the customer's needs through personalization drives a customer-centric approach, enabling businesses to better meet their preferences and increase satisfaction. Personalization fosters more effective communication between sales advisers and customers, leading to increased sales and customer satisfaction through tailored dialogue. Providing personalized experiences enhances brand perception, leaving a lasting impression that generates positive reviews and recommendations, ultimately strengthening the brand.   Quotes: "The customer experiences being recognized, obtaining great service, having a person to really curate and engage with their needs, and so it really helps brands achieve much stronger loyalty" - Zornitza Stefanova “When you personalize the experience for the client, they feel recognized and cherished and taken care of they come back and that it really is where the business has an opportunity to evolve.” - Zornitza Stefanova “We make it possible for the sales advisers of these brands and companies to connect and speak with the customer 1 on 1 using our software, making the experience feel memorable.” - Zornitza Stefanova Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

今でも、意外に電話もFAXもすごく使うというニューヨークのコミュニケーション事情。英語の社名や製品名の由来と意味するところ、「tweet」をどういう日本語に翻訳するかといったローカリゼーションの話など。 0:45 前回（ep7）の外資系企業あるある話の振り返り 2:22 ニューヨークではめちゃくちゃ電話がかかってくるし、FAXもすごく使う 5:27 メール見ないからテキスト（SMS）で送ってくれ 8:58 この10年のニューヨークにおけるコミュニケーションの進化とは？ 10:30 「○○じゃなきゃいけない」ではなく、「自分が都合いいから」とか「楽だから」 14:05 Google Duplex - レストランや病院の予約を取りたい時に代わりに電話して予約とってくれる 16:43 レストランとか店舗の情報を探す時、地図ベースで探して保存することが当たり前になった 20:53 前回（ep7）振り返り − Evernote、Six Apartともに名前がいい 21:16 Six Apart社の名前の由来 − 英語のapartという単語が持つニュアンスと日本でよくあった間違い 24:03 MicrosoftのP2P製品「threedegrees」（というのがあった） 25:13 Six Degrees of Separation （6次の隔たり） 26:04 スタンレー・ミルグラム教授による実験結果（ある特定の人物に到達するように、160人に手紙を送るように依頼した実験） 27:43 mixiもGreeもこれに基づいていた 27:57 Twitter日本展開の際 "tweet" をどう翻訳するか問題。つぶやく？さえずる？ローカリゼーションの難しさ 29:22 tweet入力欄の "What are you doing?" の翻訳 −「今？」という戸惑い 31:00 ユーザーがどんどん発案していった機能 − RT、@をつけたMention 31:59 以前のTwitterの140文字制限はテキスト（SMS）に由来 34:07 Twitterが作ったオープンなエコシステムと、結局その後規制が増えていった事情 36:20 今後のエピソードで取り上げてみるかもしれないトピックリンク：トーク中で取り上げた記事や情報へのリンクです。 Google Duplex（英語）：https://ai.googleblog.com/2018/05/duplex-ai-system-for-natural-conversation.html Evernote：https://evernote.com/ Six Apart：https://www.sixapart.jp threedegrees（英語）：https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threedegrees 6次の隔たり：https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%85%AD%E6%AC%A1%E3%81%AE%E9%9A%94%E3%81%9F%E3%82%8A

かつてユニコーンだったEvernote社の買収が発表されました。企業買収・売却や大規模レイオフの話題がつきない今日この頃、外資系企業での経験が多い3人が、会社の栄枯盛衰やそこから学んだことをゆるりとしみじみ振り返りました。買収されたりレイオフされるのは恥ずかしいことじゃない、今だから言える買収前夜の会社の内情もぶっちゃけます。 0:43 かつてユニコーンだったEvernote社が買収された。3人それぞれ外資系企業で学んだことや失敗したことあるある話をしてもいい頃 5:10 Evernoteってなに？ 10:50 プロダクト − Build for ourselvesとユーザーニーズとのバランス 12:30 B2CからB2Bへの移行、ニーズの違い、対応すべきところの違い 14:00 料金プラン − 有料と無料の境目の設計大事 15:43 個人向けと企業向け両方の製品群をもっていたSix Apart社はどうだったか 19:03 たくさんのプロダクトを展開したSix Apart、たくさんアプリを展開していたEvernote。ビジネスエリアの拡大 vs 選択と集中 22:36 データだけを見て分析すると間違いが起きる 26:42 Six Apart社の事業分割の裏話 − 資金調達も大変だけど、売るのも大変 32:07 レイオフは（自分の）能力がないということではない 32:42 レイオフする側（経営者）の体験談、レイオフされる側（従業員）の視点と心構え 37:05 severance package もらって辞めるのも必要 40:29 Airbnbのレイオフ事例にみるCEOの真摯な姿勢とサポート体制がすごかった 43:23 アメリカの昨年から今年にかけてのレイオフ、採用、資金調達事情 47:42 レイオフの対象になった人のリスト（Layoffs.fyi）が速攻でできる海外 57:16 DECってどういう会社？ 1:00:07 ダウンサイジングと低価格化の波を自ら仕掛けたのに乗り切れなかったDEC 1:01:16 会社ってこうやって潰れていくんだなぁと思った時 1:03:06 DECはなぜ潰れたのか − NIH（Not Invented Here）症候群、技術に対するおごり、イノベーションのジレンマ 1:10:22 Windows NT誕生の背景、当時世界最高速のプロセッサAlphaとの関係、DEC破綻への道 1:14:22 DECから学んだこと − 会社が早期退職プログラムやったら真っ先に手を上げるべし 1:18:02 経営者が変わると会社も変わるリンク：トーク中で取り上げた記事や情報へのリンクです。 Evernote：https://evernote.com/ Six Apart：https://www.sixapart.jp Layoffs.fyi：https://layoffs.fyiXCrossing website https://x-crossing.com/XCrossing Official Twitter @x_crossing_及川卓也 @takoratta関信浩 @NobuhiroSeki上野美香 @mikamika59

Barak is the founder of MarketCentrix, a consumer strategy consultancy for tech companies. Barak consults to start-ups, VCs, and large companies and serves as a board member or advisor to start-ups. Most recently, Barak was the Director of Operation and Strategy at the MIT Media Lab. Prior to the Media Lab, Barak was CEO of Evi, the virtual personal assistant acquired by Amazon, and is now the intelligence in Amazon Alexa. Over his 30 years + in consumer technology, Barak established a broad range of businesses. He was the founder or senior executive in many start-ups, including Wolfram Alpha, Six Apart, OmniSky, The Go Network, and Logitech. Before Logitech, Barak spent over nine years at Apple USA and Apple Japan in several roles leading consumer marketing, and he was the founding manager of Macy's Computer Stores. In our conversation, Barak explores the leadership traits of successful disruptors, how organizations look like supporting those leaders, and the common pitfalls firms encounter along the way. We end our inspiring discussion with an outlook on the possible impact of (technological) change on humanity.

Barak Berkowitz is the real deal. He has played a formative part in the evolution of Silicon Valley's technology ecosystem ; ; 9 years at Apple, through Logitech, as CEO of Six Apart and heading up Operations and Strategy at MIT Media Lab. He's been CEO to multiple startups and advises CEOs across the world. In his illustrious career, he has proved repeatedly that if you create an environment in which people thrive, you get better results. I've loved every one of the Humans Leading Humans interviews but this is, in some ways, my favourite. His stories, of how he has driven success and growth, offer pragmatic, actionable tools and knowhow to help us be more successful leaderdsl. Find out why he was delighted when a new recruit mistook him for the janitor, why trusting people to do the right thing is the right thing to do, and how listening to employees at all levels, and co-creation solutions, is common sense. Follow Barak on linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/barakberk/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/barakberk/) Katz Kiely on linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/katzyk/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/katzyk/) Katz on twitter : https://twitter.com/katzy (https://twitter.com/katzy) beep on twitter : https://twitter.com/beepmindshift (https://twitter.com/beepmindshift) Find out about beep's CREATE Framework and it's uniquely effective approach to cultural and operational transformation here ; http://wearebeep.com/ (http://wearebeep.com/) Humans Leading Humans is brought to you in partnership with thehttps://www.marketingsociety.com/ ( Marketing Society). TMS inspire, accelerate and unite the worlds smartest leaders -  find out more and join the global community https://www.marketingsociety.com/ (https://www.marketingsociety.com/) Thanks to SuperTerranea for the magical sting of stings: https://www.superterranea.com/ (https://www.superterranea.com)

Barak Berkowitz is the real deal. He has played a formative part in the evolution of Silicon Valley's technology ecosystem ; ; 9 years at Apple, through Logitech, as CEO of Six Apart and heading up Operations and Strategy at MIT Media Lab. He's been CEO to multiple startups and advises CEOs across the world. In his illustrious career, he has proved repeatedly that if you create an environment in which people thrive, you get better results. I've loved every one of the Humans Leading Humans interviews but this is, in some ways, my favourite. His stories, of how he has driven success and growth, offer pragmatic, actionable tools and knowhow to help us be more successful leaderdsl. Find out why he was delighted when a new recruit mistook him for the janitor, why trusting people to do the right thing is the right thing to do, and how listening to employees at all levels, and co-creation solutions, is common sense. Follow Barak on linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/barakberk/ Katz Kiely on linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/katzyk/ Katz on twitter : https://twitter.com/katzy beep on twitter : https://twitter.com/beepmindshift Find out about beep's CREATE Framework and it's uniquely effective approach to cultural and operational transformation here ; http://wearebeep.com/ Humans Leading Humans is brought to you in partnership with the Marketing Society. TMS inspire, accelerate and unite the worlds smartest leaders - find out more and join the global community https://www.marketingsociety.com/ Thanks to SuperTerranea for the magical sting of stings: https://www.superterranea.com/

http://www.peakmind.orgShare your thoughts:@loic@michaeltrainerLoïc Le Meur is a serial entrepreneur based in San Francisco. Loïc is working on his new startup Leade.rs, a speakers-events marketplace.Previously Loïc co-founded one of the largest European tech event LeWeb. According to The Economist, "LeWeb is where revolutionaries gather to plot the future". LeWeb launched in London in addition to Paris and acquired by Reed Exhibitions in 2012.Loïc also successfully started and sold four companies. Hootsuite acquired his social networking app Seesmic, he also founded one of the first blogging service in Europe, Ublog, acquired by Six Apart now Say Media, a web hosting company Rapidsite France acquired by France Telecom and a web agency B2L acquired by BBDO (Omnicom group).Loïc is an active business angel and was an early investor in LinkedIn, Evernote and Lending Club, among many others.Loïc was named one of "Europe's Tech25" by the Wall Street Journal as well as one of the "25 most influential people" on the web by Business Week He is featured in The Economist as one of "Europe's Blooming Entrepreneurs", and is a "Young Global Leader"by the World Economic Forum where he helps select the next Tech Pioneers and is a regular speaker.Loïc loves paragliding and kite-surfing.pic by Christopher Michel 

I started writing my spy novel Hill Mole casually on May 13, 2005, and sort of petered out on July 20, 2017. I aspire to continue. I blame Facebook and Twitter because I really stopped contributing to the novel, still alive at HillMole.com. But I had so much fun writing it. And I truly aspire to get her done, or make her a life's work. Ironically, it's still running a 2006 version of Six Apart's MovableType running Perl. I try my hardest to keep the code alive! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app · Charity Promotion: Democracy Works: This advertisement is part of a charitable initiative in partnership with Democracy Works. howto.vote --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/chrisabraham/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/chrisabraham/support

Barak Berkowitz is the Director of Operation and Strategy at MIT Media Lab as well as the founder of MarketCentrix, a consumer strategy consultancy for tech companies. He consults to start-ups, VCs and Large companies. Past clients have included, Digital Garage, Apple, Sony, Fujifilm, Polycom and many others. He also serves as an investor and advisor to many start-ups including LittleBits, New Context, Improbable and Quixey. Over the last 25+ years Barak has served in a number of consumer technology leadership roles. Most recently Barak was CEO of Evi, the virtual personal assistant that was acquired by Amazon.Com and is the intelligence in Alexa. Prior to Evi, Barak was the Managing Director of Wolfram Alpha, the revolutionary answer engine. He also was Chairman and CEO of Six Apart, the global leader in blogging, Cofounder and President of OmniSky, the wireless Internet innovator that went public in 2000, EVP and General manager of the Go Network, the Disney owned web portal and EVP and General Manager of Logitech. Prior to Logitech Barak spent over 9 years at Apple USA and Apple Japan in a number of roles leading consumer-marketing programs. Barak started his tech career at Macy's, running the world's first large-scale consumer computer store chain.

What's the perfect name for a business?*Disclaimer* If you haven't got a product yet, call it anything remotely sensible and don't listen to this episode. It's a waste of your time - focus on your product first. Have a clear indication of the message you are trying to portray and what your brand needs to communicate. How are your main competitors naming their brands, and how will you fit into the market.4 types of name - descriptive, suggestive, abstract and legacy.Descriptive: names that describe what the company does like Snapchat, PayPal, DirecTV, Playstation and Toys R Us.Suggestive: they set an evocative mood for the brand like Apple, Sky, O2, Red Bull and Uber.Abstract: these are made up words that have a strong memorable sound and have the potential to gain new meaning like Google, Skype, Kodak, Yahoo and Rolex.Legacy: these include founder's names, nicknames and organisation acronyms that may already be in use, even if not officially, like Ferrari, Chanel, Adidas, IBM and H&M. Six Apart.It could relate the history of the field that your in, like Karl Drais - inventor of the bicycle. Or TeslaShortMemorableUniqueDescriptiveAvailable (companies house / trademark search) There's a differenceUses AlliterationWhat domain name can you getIf you want to come across as a premium brand try to avoid the comical sounding names, you'll want something more sophisticated. Try to imagine your target audience and figure out if they would appreciate it. Write a brief and try and hit it, but if you can't just call it whatever and crack on you can always change it later.What's a good example of a company name?RedcrossVolkswagen - Peoples CarLoaf - soft sounding, rounded, describes bread which is warm and soft, also means lazing about. What's a bad example of a company name?Something difficult to pronounce or spell. Something so long that you can't abbreviate it and it till makes sense. Abbreviations in general are very easy to forget. Testing if the name looks good - Write your shortlist of names in helvetica font without any branding to see if they look good just as a word.We're brought to you by onthejobmarketing.comIf you're a tradesperson, you need a website and marketing to get more customers. Speak to the people that know your trade and can help with all your marketing needs.

Mon invitée de ce 30ème épisode est une personne pas comme les autres, une de ces personnes qui respirent la force et la détermination et qui vous refilent tout de suite de l’énergie quand on les écoute. À à peine 23 ans, @Géraldine_le_Meur est déjà mariée et l’heureuse maman d’un petit garçon. Pas de temps à perdre, et sachant déjà exactement ce qu’elle veut, elle se lance aussitôt dans le business du web en 1995. L’aventure commence avec une agence web : Looping Communication qui prendra ensuite le nom de B2L où elle recrute son tout premier développeur pour la conception d’un site pour Peugeot. 2 ans plus tard,avec son compagnon et associé @Loïc, elle monte une deuxième boîte axée sur l'hébergement. Il s’agit de Rapid Site qui voit le jour à la suite d’une rencontre avec le patron de Domicile France Telecom. Rapid Site sera ensuite racheté par @Nicolas, le patron de Wanadoo. À 27 ans, Géraldine a déjà revendu ses 2 boîtes et réinvesti dans un startup studio - Business Space. Pour cette dernière boîte encore trop prématurée, ça se passe moins bien que pour les deux qui ont précédé. “Il y a un facteur très fort dans l’entrepreneuriat qui est que quand c’est trop tôt, c’est trop tôt et ça ne marche pas” Pas question de se décourager. Géraldine tire le meilleur de cette expérience qui lui a permis de côtoyer la crème des entrepreneurs. Elle en ressort avec un beau répertoire de contacts. Parmi lesquels il y a @Ben et @Mina trott. Un couple qui partage le même intérêt pour les blogs que Géraldine et son compagnon. Ils décident alors de s’associer. De cette association naît le projet UBlog, qui deviendra ensuite Six Apart. NB : On est encore bien avant l’apparition de #Wordpress. Le seul outil existant pour faciliter la création de blogs était Movable type. À cette époque là, il était aussi encore question de faire des allers-retours entre la France et les US pour pouvoir rester à jour en matière de nouvelles technologies. Et il en a fallu aussi peu pour inspirer à Géraldine l’idée de créer un nouveau projet. Le Web, qui s’appelait à ses débuts Les Blogs, vient s’ajouter au palmarès de Géraldine et Loïc. L’idée est toute simple, une conférence qui permettrait aux entrepreneurs d’avoir accès aux infos et nouveautés des US sans devoir aller aux US. On est en 2007, c’est la 2eme édition de Le Web et le succès est tel qu’on est obligé de restreindre le nombre d’invités pour éviter d’éventuels problèmes de communication. Car oui, il faut le dire, quand tu as 4000 personnes venant de 80 pays différents, communiquer devient forcément moins facile. La suite logique de ce succès ? Faire scaler Le Web, le revendre tout en continuant à l’accompagner et finir par le racheter pour passer 10 ans dans l'événementiel (rien que ça). En 2016, Géraldine croise le chemin de @Carlos_Diaz, et en 48h ils embarquent dans l’aventure The Refinders avec @Pierre_Gobil. Leur objectif : aider des entrepreneurs européens à penser global dès le début. Leur méthode : travailler avec des startups qui ont une vision et qui y croient. Le résultat : 3 ans -> 7 millions d’€ levés -> 60 boîtes lancées, dont Wilow et Lalilo - Le boîte qui aide les enfants dans l'apprentissage de la lecture. Pas de doute là-dessus, Géraldine le Meur est une vraie machine de guerre. Sa réussite, elle l’explique par deux facteurs : L’organisation La sérendipité

We made it to Episode 10, y’all! That’s a wrap on Season 1! Who better to close out our first season than an engineer, entrepreneur, and general superstar we’ve loved for, like, a full decade? Yep, our guest today is Leah Culver, the co-founder and CTO of Breaker, a social podcast app that we’ve all just started using (if you have an iPhone, check it out. Android is coming soon). > I can only do the things I can do. I can keep trying to get better, but I can’t beat myself up about not being like someone else. I just have to sort of be myself and work with what I have and take it to that—that next step. > —Leah Culver, CTO, Breaker But Breaker’s not the first startup Leah’s co-founded—in fact, Jenn fell hard for her very first company, Pownce, a microblogging platform that launched way back in 2007. We talk about that journey, plus: The future of podcasting—like Chompers, a podcast on Alexa kids can brush their teeth to. Women in tech, women in podcasting, and the fact that more women than ever are listening to podcasts, according to the 2017 podcast consumer report from Edison Research. Financing a new laptop as a young programmer by selling laser-etched advertising on it back in 2006. Getting into Y Combinator, an accelerator program for early-stage startups. What Leah’s listening to right now (it’s Modern Love, which you can get on Breaker, of course). Interviewing for 30 jobs, what a company’s snacks say about its culture, and why Leah wants you to stop judging her love for Diet Coke. Also on the agenda: letting people carry things for you (literally and figuratively), peeing with your therapist (no, really), and all the “tiny revelations” we’ve had this season. Thanks so much for joining us for Season 1! We’re taking a couple weeks off, but we’ll be back strong with Season 2 starting April 17. In the meantime, make sure to sign up for the new NYG Newsletter, coming April 20. Sponsors This episode of NYG is brought to you by: Shopify, a leading global commerce platform that’s building a diverse, intelligent, and motivated team—and they  want to apply to you. Visit shopify.com/careers to see what they’re talking about. _WordPress—the place to build your personal blog, business site, or anything else you want on the web. WordPress helps others find you, remember you, and connect with you. _   _CodePen—a social development environment for front-end designers and developers. Build and deploy a website, show off your work, build test cases, and find inspiration. _ Transcript Katel LeDû Shopify is on a mission to make commerce better for everyone. In fact, they’re the leading global commerce for entrepreneurs. And did you know that they’re hiring? That’s right! And they don’t just want you to apply to them, they want to apply to you. Join a diverse, intelligent, and motivated team where you’ll get shit done. Visit shopify.com/careers to see what they’re talking about. Jenn Lukas Welcome to No, You Go, the show about being ambitious—and sticking together. I’m Jenn Lukas. KL I’m Katel LeDû. Sara Wachter-Boettcher And I’m Sara Wachter-Boettcher. JL Hey! It’s Season 1 finale time! How did we make it through 10 episodes? Well it certainly helps to be working on something that we all love. That concept’s no stranger to our guest today, founder Leah Culver, currently CTO of Breaker, a social podcast app. We’ll also talk about tech today versus 10 years ago, using an accelerator application to let you know if you’re ready to leave your job for your startup idea, and the importance and difficulties of self-evaluation. Dun dun dun. But first! How about we check in with ourselves? How y’all doin’, ladies? KL Doing alright. Doing good. How about you? JL I’m—do you ever feel like sometimes you just sigh? But you know what? I read a study one time that sighing is actually healthy for you, so that’s ok. I’m doing ok. I’m doing ok. SWB It was funny, my husband was just telling me that his barber that you shouldn’t sigh because a monk told her not to once. And so I think about that sometimes when I let out a big sigh but I’ve been sighing a lot recently. Like, in fact, kind of a bummer couple of weeks, you know? I uh I tore my ACL which is a little unpleasant. And Jenn and Katel know this because they’re constantly offering to like carry things for me up the stairs such as like glasses of wine, my laptop— JL But we only barely know this because Sara would try as much as she can to hide this fact from most of us. You could barely tell based on your attitude and uh go—go-get-em-ness. KL Yeah and in fact I think we ran on your bad ACL a couple times. So. SWB Actually, they think my ACL has been torn for 14 months and I didn’t know it until I uh twisted something and actually injured myself because the ACL was unstable. And so it’s probably a little bit more torn now. And you know, it really took me out there for a couple of days and then for the past couple of weeks I’ve just been adjusting to what’s essentially like a long-term pre-op lifestyle. Like I have to get surgery. It’s probably not going to happen until September because of a lot of other stuff going on in the meantime—and so I’m at this place where it’s like I’m ok but I can’t do certain things. And some of those are things that are—are really bumming me out. Like I can’t run. And that is a major way that I organize my weeks and think about my time and so I’m kind of adjusting to a lifestyle where I—you know, have to be very careful about certain stuff and I have to wear a brace when I’m out walking for any length of time or trying to do anything physical. And I have to just kind of accept a slower pace, like literally a slower pace! [Mm hmm] And the kinds of stuff that I thought I could do really quickly like, “Oh I’m just going to pop downstairs in between these conference and grab something to drink,” is no longer so quick feeling. And like that is very difficult for me. And I’ve been thinking about like, “Damn. This is going to make me learn some lessons, huh?” Like not just the lessons of, you know, like trying not to injure yourself but the lessons of like, “It’s ok to move more slowly,” and like, “It’s ok to have people help you.” I don’t want to. I don’t want to learn any of those lessons! I’m sorry I don’t want to, I’m sorry I don’t want to learn them at all. They just suck! JL It’s hard, you know, we’ve talked about this on the show before but asking for help is—is really difficult. And even, you know, just something like, “Hey, could you carry this for me?” A few days before I found out I was pregnant, I was in a bike accident and broke my elbow and my ribs, and uh so I had broken ribs, broken elbow, pregnant, and I had to be like, “Hey, can you carry my laptop?” Like everywhere I went because I couldn’t pick up anything. And it was really difficult but I mean I was at the point where, you know, Sutter had to wash my hair because both my elbows… and so I mean you know it’s like—I had not choice but to ask for help. You know, there’s a lot of things as like, you know, generally able-bodied women that, you know, you—you don’t think about. And, you know, you go through life, you’re going, ok, you know, “I’m brushing I’m teeth. I’m able to brush my teeth.” And then all of a sudden you can’t. And it’s so hard! I’ve read a lot about how people with disabilities live their day-to-day lives and go through routines of things that, often, you know, we don’t think about. And when you’re faced with a temporary physical state in which, you know, you can’t do things as fast as you want to. You know, all of a sudden, your world is sort of like turned upside down. You can’t really figure out what’s what and how to get through your day. [5:07] SWB And I feel like, you know, and I mean it’s also, change is just hard for anybody. And I think that what you realize is both how badass people are who, like, figure out how to get through stuff that’s really hard, whether it’s physical or otherwise, and then you also think about how adaptable, in a lot of ways, people are. Right? Like you really can adapt to a lot that you didn’t necessarily realize you could adapt to. And, you know, something that—that I’ve also really been thinking a ton about is the way that—we have talked about sort of like the highs and lows or the peaks and valleys of work and of life, but like, that often that those things are happening at the same time. Like this has been a really good year so far in some ways, for me at least. Where it’s like I’ve got this fucking podcast and it’s going really well and I’m excited about a lot of the stuff that I’m working on and—and at the same time, like not only did I tear my ACL, like I had a pet die earlier this year and it was really hard. Like it was crushingly difficult for me, and I wanted to talk about it on the show, but it was like such a tremendous fresh wound, I couldn’t do it. And I couldn’t do it in any way where I could like get through it and out the other end into something anybody would want to listen to. I mean, 45 minutes of ugly crying is fun, I guess, for some people, but like I didn’t—I didn’t want to subject people to that, especially not, like, Episode 2. KL I think it’s really helpful to hear both of you talk about just kind of figuring out how you’re going to move around these things that, you know, become a challenge, right? Or just completely throw you off the way that you think you’re going to get through a day. And I feel like, I mean I’ve struggled with depression my entire life and, I think, over the last year I’ve gone through sort of peaks and valleys, just in that alone, you know? Along with sort of day to day life stuff. And sometimes I—I worry because I feel like not being able to cope, let’s say, on a certain day because of, you know, something that is—just isn’t working right in my brain chemistry or I, you know, just haven’t been able to—to rally around the thing I’m supposed to do that day, is—is really difficult to kind of put a structure around that and to say, “I just need some help today,” or, “I just need to like find a different way to do this because it’s so intangible.” JL And—and it’s interesting like when you hear, you know, “I just need some help today.” Or like Sara, you know, there’s times where like the few times you’ve let us help you carry [chuckling] things up the stairs, on my end, like, it feels good to help. Like [KL absolutely] I want to help. And I think that’s the thing that we sort of have to think of, like the times that I mean you both have helped me on countless situations, I mean like … it feels good to help your friends and, I think, sometimes that makes it easier for me to ask for help [KL definitely]. So think about the fact that like we want to be there and support each other. KL Yeah. And I think that is—that is ultimately—that is the absolute silver lining because I think about everything we’ve just been talking about and the fact that like, Jenn, when you were, you know, saying we want to help Sara carry stuff up the stairs. I’m like, “Oh my gosh! This is all I want to do!” Right? I’m like, “If she needs help doing stuff because she tore her ACL,” I’m like, “You better tell me when you need something because I’ll be at your house the next day.” And I think that we all feel that way. And we all have a lot more people in our lives that—that are willing to do that than we think. And we just have to accept that and ask, you know? JL And I think even like, you know, there’s big things like I—I couldn’t type for a little bit so I had people that would have to like dictate for if we were trying to get stuff done. SWB Would people dictate—like you would dictate code to people?! JL It was like the most intense pair programming. KL You’re like, “Div—no, div!” JL So I mean, you know, but there were small things too like I would be really thirsty and I couldn’t carry like a container of water and like my coworker was like, “Let me get that water for you,” you know? It wasn’t like I was like, “Buy me water!” I just needed someone to just— KL “Just, like, hand it to me!” JL —carry it. KL It’s silly the things that we, you know, don’t think about asking for help or think are too small or whatever. I mean just today, this morning, I was uh at therapy and I was sitting there and I had been thinking for the last five minutes how badly I had to pee and I had the thought, “You can just get through it for the next half hour, it’ll be fine. Like, don’t bother anyone.” JL Half an hour!!! KL I know! And then I was like, “No, I can’t—I can’t even concentrate like this is—this is so dumb. I’m like—I’m not going to get out what I need to get out of the session just because I have to pee.” So I finally, said, “I’m so sorry, I just—I really have to pee all of a sudden. You know, do you mind if I just go?” And she was like, “Oh yeah, you know, of course!” And she kind of paused and she’s like, “Do you mind if I go with you?” And I was like, “Of—of course. Sure!” And she was like, “I’m so sorry. I really have to pee too.” And we just both felt so overwhelmingly like, you know, embarrassed but also relieved and so we did and we moved on and it was great. We both like came back to the session. We were like, “Ahhh!” [10:30] SWB I mean it’s funny though because it’s like there’s little things and that’s—I mean I feel like that could be a metaphor for a lot of parts of life where these little things that sometimes you deny yourself because you’re worried that, I don’t know, you’ll make somebody else like think something weird about you or that somehow it’s more important that you pretend like you’re this perfect … stoic, non-peeing person. I don’t know what that means but— KL Or that you—right, that you can just do everything and carry everything and— SWB Right and like that you never have to make space for your own needs, right? That you can always sandwich your needs into like some other time nobody cares about and that whenever you have to like be like, “Actually, I’m going to raise my hand and say, ‘I need a thing right now,’” that’s uncomfortable and, I don’t know, like uh I think that you should be able to pee when you want to. JL I used to feel that way a lot, too, about like personal things. I would be like, “Well,” I think it’s because I was—I was an on-site consultant for so long that I had to keep my personal stuff a little bit away and now I’m full-time at Urban and I think one of the things is I still felt like, “Oh I can’t tell you what’s going on.” And last week, my son had to have surgery for um—it’s a common surgery, it’s ear tubes, but, you know, he’s a year and it’s anesthesia and there’s a lot of risks and it was scary. And normally I would never tell the to anyone. I would keep that inside, and keep that anxiety and nerves, and like to myself and then I—I’ve been trying something new recently which is where I tell people these things when I’m thinking like, “What’s going on?” And so you know, I’d just be like, “Oh I won’t be here on Friday.” I would just leave it at that. And now I’m like, “My son’s having surgery.” And like not because like I want people’s pity, or I want them—and I think that’s sort of why I never really said anything because it’s like, “Oh, you know, feel bad and worry for me!” It was like, “No, I just want you to know what’s going on in my life because, you know, I’m not going to be able to answer emails because my mind is someplace else right now.” KL Right. And you care deeply about this thing that’s happening and the people you’re telling probably do too because they care about you. SWB And also like you’re a person working with other people. And I think—I think there’s a lot about work culture that encourages us to not come to work as humans and to come to work as workers. And I’ve realized that that doesn’t serve anybody very well. And like I’m still a person when I’m working and—and I even like I’m a consultant still and I—I find myself being much more kind of open about who I am and things I care about. Obviously, you know, you put boundaries around stuff, for sure, but I, you know, like I was talking to a client today about like, “Yup, ACL is torn!” And I was describing like, you know, “I’m really bummed about not being able to run. But, you know, here we are.” And—and then, you know, this client started talking to me about how they just had MRI as well, they have a different knee problem, and it’s like—it’s kind of nice to—you know, you don’t want to necessarily say everything about everything but to be able to bring more of yourself to work. I mean we talked to Stevie last week, I think that was one of the things that they really were communicating was like how wonderful it is when you find a place that wants you to bring more of yourself to work. And that recognizes that there is value in being a human at work. And I think it is valuable to think about like, “Yeah, real people have kids who have to go through surgery like all the time. It happens to people.” And it’s ok. And you’re still awesome at your job. [14:00] JL So I’m really glad you said that about how our workplace, you know, isn’t just about us being workers, it’s about us being people. And I think that our guest today has a lot of great things to say about that. Not just as being the founder of a company like Breaker and a CTO but also as someone who hires for the company and has interviewed at a lot of places, and has had a lot of thoughts about what it’s like to find a good culture fit, and being comfortable at where you work. So I’m really excited to get to our interview with Leah. [Music fades in.] Sponsors JL Today’s show is brought to you by CodePen, a social development environment for frontend designers and developers. Ever want a place to share code with co-workers? Maybe even a potential employer? Your profile on CodePen is like your front end development portfolio. And if you love it like I do, be sure to check out CodePen Pro. With a Pro account you can upload assets like images to use in your code, you can create private Pens, and you can even see changes as you build them with Live View. That’s soooo awesome! There’s also a really cool professor mode for teaching and working real time with your students. Pro accounts start at just nine dollars a month. Learn more at codepen.io. That’s C-O-D-E-P-E-N-dot-i-o. [15:10] SWB Did you know that nearly 30 percent of all websites run on WordPress? True story. And that includes our site, noyougoshow.com. We love WordPress because it’s easy to set up, has great support, and allows us to create pretty much whatever we want. Whether you’d like to build a personal blog, a business site, or both, creating your website on wordrpress.com helps others find you, remember you, and connect with you. Plans start at just four dollars a month, and 24/7 support is always available. Start building your website today. Go to wordpress.com/noyougo for 15 percent off any new plan purchase. That’s wordpress.com/noyyougo for 15 percent off your brand-new website. Interview: Leah Culver JL I first became familiar with Leah Culver around 10 years ago when she brilliantly financed her new MacBook by selling ad space laser etched on it. I then became a super fan when she co-founded the social media site Pownce. Those who knew me then know how much I loved the micro-blogging platform and one thing I thought was so, so cool about it was that one of the founders was a woman and she was an engineer. As a developer, it was inspiring to see the awesome projects Leah was creating. Since then, she’s authored the OAuth and OEmbed API specifications and has gone onto found Convor and Grove, real time chat programs, and is now the CTO of Breaker, a social app for listening to podcasts. I’m thrilled to have her here to talk with us today. Welcome to the show, Leah. Leah Culver Hi! Thank you so much for having me, Jenn. JL Yeah, as I mentioned, it’s like such an honor for us to have you here. I’m a big fan of the work that you’ve done so far which, speaking of, I’d love if you tell us a little bit about Breaker, how it came to be, and what makes it so awesome. LC Sure! And I’m actually a fan of yours too. So this is—this is a pretty fun interview to do. JL Ah thanks! Podcast high five! LC Awesome! The idea behind Breaker was really—I started to get into podcasting a couple years ago um when Serial came out. I don’t know if you guys all listened to Serial. JL Yup, definitely. LC The biggest podcast to ever come out, right? As basically the “hit show” of podcasting. But I hadn’t really been into podcasts before that. I had maybe listened to an episode or two on my computer when someone sent me something. But it wasn’t like I was a regular podcast listener. But I started listening to Serial and I was run—I was training for a marathon at the same time. So, I would listen to episodes when I was training, and I wouldn’t let myself listen to any episodes when I wasn’t running, so it like actually kind of motivated me to get my butt out the door. JL That’s awesome. LC —and do my running. Yeah. So it was great but then when the season ended, I didn’t really know what else to listen to. Or I wanted to listen to other things that were like Serial. Like high-quality podcasts as opposed to, you know, two people chatting and the audio quality being bad and things like that. I was like, “Where can I find really great podcasts?” So I tried like the Apple charts. So I was using the Apple Podcast app on my phone. And I tried looking at the charts, and I didn’t have a ton of success because I didn’t really know how—like I knew that someone picked these shows and these episodes but I didn’t really know how. You know? Like what they caught their eye and like what about them was good. JL Yeah. LC So that’s how I kind of got the idea behind like, “Hey, there could be something better here.” Like I wanted a player where I could also see like—like similar to like Spotify or YouTube. Like how many people are liking this thing? What are the comments on it? You know sort of what’s going on around this content. And that was the idea behind Breaker. JL I love that you found an interest in something and were like, “Well, there’s a gap, there’s something missing that I want.” And instead of just being like, “Well, this sucks. This doesn’t exist,” you created it. LC Yeah! I think that’s the power of being a developer, a designer, or someone that makes things is when you find something in a space that you’re like, “Hey, this thing should exist,” and then the next thought might be like, “Oh. I can make that exist.” JL That’s so cool. So how has it been like has the shift in focusing on podcasting, are you now finding yourself completely involved, not just in running the company of Breaker, but like the podcasting culture? LC Yeah, it’s —it’s been super weird. I’m trying to keep like my Twitter feed non-podcast people so I have like a good sense of how popular podcasting is and it seems like it’s on the rise, even amongst people who haven’t been in the industry a long time, but it’s also getting into that podcasting use has been really interesting. It’s a really old medium, right? Like podcasting has been around since there was—probably like forever, if you think radio. But sort of in its current incarnation of like mobile devices and sort of since the iPod, 2006. But I think it was so difficult then to sort of have like a podcast app or to make it easy to listen, like you had to like download files on your phone and things—that really there was this big opportunity to make things better and I don’t think it’s changed a ton since then. I mean only within probably the past year or two, maybe three years, had there been any new companies in the space. JL Yeah, speaking of the last few years, there’s been quite a few articles that have come out about the lack of diversity in podcasting. Have you found the numbers for women and other minorities in podcasts to be growing? [19:59] LC Yeah! Well, I hope so. I’m pretty optimistic about it. I do see a lot of podcasts and a lot of them still are, you know, two guys discussing a topic. And, actually, that’s my favorite search term to use to get like a lot of results is like podcasts called “Two Guys” dot, dot, dot. But you know I think there are many more women podcasters and I think there is a desire in our culture to hear from voices that aren’t, you know, straight white men, right? So I think there’s a desire for that content. And so I think those are actually like the hottest areas of podcasts to go into. And I wanted to bring it up just because it’s recent news: Edison published The Podcast Consumer 2017 and it’s about podcast listeners, specifically, not podcasters and, overall, the monthly podcast listening for men has not grown at all in—from 2017 to 2018 but podcast listening from women has gone from 21 percent to 24 percent of women listening to a podcast every month. So all of the recent growth in podcasting, you could say, has been attributed to women which I think is great. JL Wow. LC Yeah. JL Yeah that’s amazing. LC Yeah in terms of listenership and I think in terms of content production, we’re seeing the same thing as well. JL What do you hope to see happen in the podcasting industry over the next year or two years or five years? LC Yeah, I just want to see more good content, more great shows. I think it’s still really early days and so there’s a lot of opportunity to really build amazing quality content on a sort of new platform in a sense. And I don’t think that all the experimentation has been done yet, right? So there’s things like smart devices, for example, Gimlet which is a podcast producer, just came out with a new show for the Alexa. Like a show specifically made for that device [hmm] and it’s—the idea is like to get kids to brush their teeth. So it’s like a two-minute long podcast and you say, like, “Alexa, you know, play this podcast.” And it’s such a—I don’t have kids so I haven’t even tried it yet but it’s such like a interesting concept that, you know, we have these new devices that can do things with audio that we couldn’t do before. So I’m—I’m curious about that. I’m curious about audio in cars. Headphones. There’s a lot of stuff that’s going on in the technology space, in like the hardware space that makes podcasting really exciting. JL Yeah wow that is—that is so cool. My son’s one, so we are now brushing but eventually, I think that’s a brilliant idea. LC But yeah, yeah so there’s a lot of—I think there’s a lot of opportunity driven also by the hardware that’s—that’s coming up now and sort of how we’re thinking about our daily activities and how we interact with media. JL That’s so neat, I think a lot of times people get discouraged to try something new like a podcast or writing or anything because they think everything’s been before. So I love this idea of looking at it in a completely new way. LC Oh no. It’s still so early days for podcasting. You—I mean, I feel like back in the day it was like, “Let’s start a blog for this topic,” or, “You should start a Tumblr on this topic.” And now it’s like, “Oh you should do a podcast!” JL Yeah. I’d love to know your opinion is on like podcasting versus vlogging or any sort of video news. LC Uh so I’m actually not much of a video watcher myself. I always like to be doing things and be on the move. Like it’s hard for me to like focus on even watching like a TV show or a movie. Like I listen to podcasts when I’m doing something else, right? So I’ll be cleaning my house, or going for a run, or walking someplace. Like I don’t drive but I would listen—I do listen to podcasts when I do ride in the car which is very rarely. For me it’s about the ability to be like multitasking. So that’s why I’m a little I guess biased against vlogs or video podcasts is I just feel that they don’t feed the same need for me, personally. JL Yeah that makes sense. Yeah I listen to them sometimes when I’m in Lyfts, sometimes because I’m really into something, or sometimes just to avoid awkward driver conversation, but and then also, yeah, when I’m doing stuff around the house. So I’m totally with you on that. So with Breaker, you started that at Y Combinator, along with Convore, can you give our listeners an overview of Y Combinator and what that is and how it helped you get started? LC Sure! Uh so Breaker was my second time doing the Y Combinator program. They offer a three month program twice a year to entrepreneurs, you apply, and hopefully get accepted, and then get to go to Mountain View for three months, and work with the partners there who are a team of really, really smart people. And I was lucky enough to do it back in 2011, for my second startup, and then I purposely sort of applied again for my third startup because I thought it was such a good experience, I think all the partners are really smart, and it’s really nice to have a connection with a lot of founders. It really is like a good network. I think that’s the—the thing that’s most surprising after joining Y Combinator is how much of the value of the program is more from the network than anything else. JL What advice would you give to someone who is thinking about applying but unsure if they should, you know, go all in with their idea for a program like that? [24:48] LC So an interesting thing lately is Y Combinator has been a little more intern—they look for smart founders but they also kind of look for commitment to ideas. So I’d maybe wait til you were pretty sure that you wanted to do it as a startup. We were kind of at the point where we switching from Breaker being a side project and a hobby project, which we actually ran it as a hobby project for about nine months. And then switched over to being full-time just before we were accepted to Y Combinator, we kind of both quit our jobs. So, lucky we got in. But we probably would’ve done it anyways. And I think that’s sort of what they’re looking for is like, “Hey! It’s something I’m really excited about and committed to,” because if you end up doing a startup, you end up kind of doing it for life. But beyond that, it’s good to just fill out the application with yourself and your cofounders because there are a lot of questions in there, in the application itself, that are very clarifying. Like they ask, “What is your equity split?” And they ask things like, “Where will you live?” And then more complex questions like, “Who are your competitors?” And, “What are you afraid of?” And sort of really gets into all sorts of aspects of really early stage startups that are—you know it’s valuable to ask yourself those questions, even if you don’t end up submitting the application. I’d encourage anyone just to fill it out, submit the application, it never hurts, like nothing bad happens if—if it doesn’t get accepted. It doesn’t mean anything. There are so many great companies that are rejected from Y Combinator, because they get thousands of applicants, right? Like they can’t give every single great company—and oftentimes they’ll see a company apply in a year and not get accepted and then they’ll be accepted the next year or the next—in the next six months, you know? JL Yeah, I love that. I think that people are so scared of rejection sometimes that it’s really—it makes it hard to put yourself out there. LC Yeah, I agree and what’s funny is being on the other side of it. So running a startup now I’m hiring people and for me that’s weird because I’m like, “Oh! Sometimes the hiring decision—” that we’re like, “Oh! We’re not hiring right now.” Or, “Oh! You’re not right—quite the right fit.” Really has nothing to do with them as a person. It could just be like the stage our company is at or, you know, something totally out of their control that has nothing to do with the quality of their work. Or the quality of them as a person. So it’s like it’s been very comforting to me, knowing that—so the last time I applied for a job, I applied for 30 different jobs [oh wow!] which is a pretty—yeah it was actually great but I didn’t have that fear of rejection and I actually rejected companies. I actually went in—I actually walked out of two interviews. JL Yeah. Wow. Good for you! LC Because I just—I, you know, I did it because I wanted to save their engineers time. Like they were interviewing me and it was, you know, I didn’t want to waste their time if I didn’t think it was a good fit for me. And I think a lot of the times getting into the company, like visiting their space, having lunch with the team, things like that, really get you that really quick, “Hey, is this the right place for me?” And in this particular case—when I just remember I went in and talked to someone on their product team and I was like, “I just don’t really feel this product vision.” And I was like, “You know I don’t think if I feel the product vision I could be into working here.” Um so it was nothing personal, it was just like, “Uh, I don’t think this is the right fit for me.” JL I love this idea of, you know, I people are like, “Oh I don’t know if I can apply to this job.” And it’s like, “Well, why apply for one? Apply for 30”. LC Yeah definitely! JL I mean I love—I love it. LC And then if you don’t get it, if you don’t get one, it doesn’t really matter because you have 29 more! KL I love that too and the idea that, you know, there is—there is actually room to interview the company that’s hiring. I mean I think a lot of people just don’t even think that that’s a thing that they can do and it absolutely is. It’s something that you should do when you’re trying to feel out what you’re going to do next. It’s like—it’s a big change. LC Yeah and oftentimes in a interview, the interviewer will ask you, “Hey! Do you have any questions about this company?” And like you should have questions, you know, and hard questions. I don’t think anyone gets offended if you’re really evaluating them as well. You’re right. You’re totally right. JL Do you have any favorite questions that you like to ask? Well I mean when you were interviewing, now you’re doing the interview on the other side. LC This is going to sound so petty, but I always wanted to know what their food situation was like because I thought it said a lot about the culture. So I’m a Diet Coke addict, I absolutely love Diet Coke. And it’s super unhealthy, right? Like no one’s going to be like, “Oh yeah, Diet Coke should be in every corporate office.” But I did judge companies based on whether they stocked Diet Coke or not because I would go to interview at some place and they’d be like, “Oh we only do healthy snacks.” But they’d have like really sugary like fruit bars and stuff. And I was like, “Really?” Like snacks are just, you know, such like a privilege anyways. It’s just such like a silly—a silly thing to look at a company for but because of that I think it really is telling in how—how much independence they believe you have as sort of an employee. JL Yeah. I think that’s—I think it’s really neat. I think snacks, the office space, the office space, and like how people are set up and where they’re—like their seating situation. There’s just a lot you can tell with like things you might not think of. Are there windows? LC Yes! Yes! I went to an interview at a major company, I will not tell you which one, and I walked in—and it was for a role that was not like one of their core products. And I walked in and the room—it was freezing cold, there was no windows, and everyone was working in tiny offices like all sectioned off from each other and I knew immediately. I was like, “This is not the job for me.” So yeah I think it all matters. [30:07] JL We mentioned that Breaker was your third startup. Your first was Pownce, which you founded soon after college. What was it like to have big early success like that and, you know, eventually you were acquired by Six Apart. So what was it like to have that success and then letting go of what you made with your first big—big product? LC So I started when I was 24, fresh out of college. I had worked a couple programming jobs in the Bay Area before then. I had moved to the Bay Area because I didn’t like Minnesota winters but also just to have this new opportunity. To be away—none of my family lives in the Bay Area, I didn’t know anyone, it was a chance to be doing something new. And I loved programming. I wanted to do the best I could do. And I felt like that was in the Bay Area and what happened was I met my co-founders Kevin Rose and Daniel Burka and they said, “Hey, we’re thinking about doing this project but we need someone to build it.” Kevin’s a business guy and Daniel’s a designer, and they wanted someone to write the code and I had never built anything of substantial or like a completed app or anything like that. And I just said, “Ok. I’ll do it.” And I think that—I actually remember exactly where I was when I said, “Yeah I’ll do it,” I was in a cafe in Potrero. And I remember saying like, “Yeah, I can do this,” and being like, “I don’t know that I can actually do this.” But I did! I just built it and everything I didn’t know how to do, I looked up on the internet or asked someone else for help. It’s so funny because I was asking all these Django developer—this was the early days of the Django web framework in Python and all these Django developers, I was asking them questions, I was asking them the weirdest questions. Like, “How do I do this like very particular thing?” And they’re like, “I don’t think you need to do that unless you’re building like, I don’t know, like some big site. Like what are you—you know like why do you need to know how to do this crazy, you know, social networking concept?” Like at the time there was really only like Facebook. So it’s like, “Why do you need to know how to do this?” And it’s funny to look back later and I ran into someone and they were like, “Oh, that’s so funny that you said that.” And I ended up building Pownce and I was way in over my head, I had no idea what I was doing, and because Kevin was so popular, he was running Digg at the time. So he was a founder of Digg. He had a ton of followers and people paying attention to him and so he announced, “Hey! Here’s my new project,” and we got hundreds of thousands of new users instantly. And we had an invite-only system and people were selling invites on eBay, and like the whole thing was just weird. And the whole invite—like I had written the whole invite system, so I was thinking, like, they’re selling something on eBay that’s my code, you know? It’s so weird. It was so weird to me but it was such a great experience. What’s funny is I think it has really shaped my whole career in terms of—since then I’ve always been someone who just loves to ship things and get things done and figure it out as I go and I don’t think that would’ve been the case if I hadn’t done Pownce. I probably would’ve followed a more traditional engineering path. JL We’ve talked about this a little bit with Katel, with her role at A Book Apart and sort of saying yes to things even if you’re like, “Well, I haven’t done it before but I’m pretty sure I can do it.” KL And then you’re like, “What the hell?” LC Yeah! Yeah but then you’re like, “Well I could really do anything.” JL Yeah. LC You know? Like once you do the thing, you’re like, “Oh! Well that wasn’t so bad.” KL Yeah. Totally. It’s true. I feel like you—you learn a lot about yourself in a very short amount of time, and I—I definitely wasn’t expecting that. So, I mean, that was a great outcome. LC That’s amazing. JL I love that too like the um—like the retrospect of it in that like, “Well, if—if I went through this, I can do anything.” I was thinking today, I was like, “Ugh, you know I haven’t had much sleep,” and I was like, “Ah I gotta do this podcasting thing,” and I was like, “Well, you know, I also got thrown up by my—by my one-year-old all last night, and if I can do that, I’m pretty sure I can do anything.” KL You survived it! LC This is way less disgusting I hope! Much less! JL Yes. It is much less. So thank you. So Pownce was acquired by Six Apart, what was that like? LC It was an interesting time. I think it was sort of during the sort of tech downturn in 2009. A lot of companies were being acquired or shutting down, and I—when we were acquired I didn’t know they were going to shut down Pownce but they ended up closing down the site, which for me was pretty sad, but I didn’t feel… I was so—I wish I had then felt like I had more control over it. I didn’t feel like I had a ton of control over the acquisition or what happened. I had two co-founders, I was a little bit in over my head, and I think things are much different now. One of the things I’m starting to learn is that a company is more about the longevity. “It’s a marathon, not a sprint” is probably the cliche way to say it, but yeah if companies—I draw a lot of inspiration from companies like VenMo, where the company had been around for years and years with no success or with little success and then managed to blow up and become a whole thing and a household name and things like that. And to realize that success isn’t instant and at Pownce I felt very lucky that we did have a lot of success but we didn’t have enough instantly for I think our team to really—to raise money and to feel like it was going some place, and there were a lot of other pressures going on, and I wish I had had the confidence then in what I know now is like, “Oh, hang in there. Keep going.” Then I learned a little bit more with my second startup as well. I was way in over my head, I was the only person working there, and I didn’t feel like I could fundraise. I didn’t feel like I could raise money, even though the product was making money, I didn’t know how to hire, I didn’t know how to do all these things. So, with Breaker, I feel like I’m really getting that third chance but I feel much—I think this time I have that patience and that commitment to sticking through with it for a long time, which before, I think, when you’re an engineer, you’re just like, “Ah! I’ll just move on to the next project or do the next thing,” is very tempting. [36:02] JL Yeah that’s such a—it is such like a complete mindshift as like you mentioned that I can say, and I think that’s one of the things that I always love about being a developer is I have uh started and abandoned many a projects. I have—I own many domain names and then I’m like, “Well, I’ll just let that one go.” So I love it that like you have to make this shift and to run a startup you have to really see it through. LC Yeah and I think the moment that we ended up, you know, really converting it to a company as opposed to a side project for Breaker was the moment it was like, “Ok this is really happening. We’re going to be in this for a long time.” And I feel so lucky because it’s so nice to make a podcast listening app, like, it really is enjoyable. It’s not a painful product to work on, it’s really great. Like I use the product all the time. So it’s really easy. JL So what you’re saying is make something that you love, if you’re going to do it. LC Oh, absolutely. Or something that you care about. You know if it’s a—a cause that you’re passionate about, or if it’s an area that you’re very knowledgeable in, I mean it doesn’t have to be—I’m partial to social networks and communication. So anything about media, communication, social networks is really my wheelhouse. But I think each founder has their own like passion and the thing that they love to do. JL So you are also an author of the OAuth and OEmbed API specifications, which I just think is so cool. So I’d love if you could talk to us a little bit about that and sort of explain to our listeners what that is. LC Sure! So OAuth, the easy way to explain it is: if you every click “Connect with Facebook” to login with a site or “Connect with Twitter,” you’re using OAuth, that’s the backend technology for it. I got involved with helping to build it—it’s actually like, I was one of the original like 12 authors, something like that, of the first specification and I got involved through working on Pownce. We needed a way to authenticate and authorize users to use our API. And through that it’s just become something almost completely different from what it was intended for. It was really intended for API access and now it’s just sort of been this defacto way to like quickly login on the web which I think is fantastic. It’s really cool. It’s like a really interesting turn and one of the things I’m most proud of is helping to come up with like sort of that user interface flow that really I think enable it to become this huge thing. So if you’re going to talk about like, “Oh it’s like the coolest thing that you probably like worked on that, you know, people would actually know,” it’s probably, you know, “Login with Facebook.” My dad said recently, he was like, “Oh you always wanted to be an inventor when you grew up, what happened to that?” And I was like, “Have you ever clicked ‘Login with Facebook’ on a website?!” Yeah but it’s so cool. It’s such a little thing, too, in the whole scheme of the web, it’s so cool to think that like developers have these small like little claims to fame on the web, that’s something that like outlives you and continues on is pretty cool, and I just feel so lucky to be like such a small part of that history. JL That’s really neat. I love that. And then, you know, I also like—I feel like if your—if your dad was like, “Oh yeah, wait! I’ve clicked that!” And then I don’t know, it’s such like, it’s a feel good moment. LC Yeah, yeah. That was pretty funny. JL So before Pownce and before OAuth, one of the things that I think was so cool that you did is similar to, if those that remember the million-dollar website where people had sold pixel space for an advertisement, or some people sold tattoos on their body for funding, but what you did was a lot smarter! I’d like to say, in that you raised money for a new laptop by selling advertising space on it. And I just remember thinking that was so cool and such like an innovative way to use the internet and get social funding for your new laptop. And one of the things I was looking at when I was just researching is that I found some of the articles from then and some of them were like, “Cute Girl Sells Laser-etched Macbook Advertising.” And I was like, wow! I was like, I forgot that that existed. [39:49] LC Yeah, the internet was a different—it was a different time and a different place back then. What’s really interesting is I got started in that project because the company I was working for at the time is Instructables and they had a laser etcher and so the idea was—So I had a really old computer and all of the people that worked at, you know, Squid Labs and Instructables at the time had these like newer laptops and they were all etching them with this laser etcher but I didn’t even have a laptop. So that—the idea came pretty easily. It was like, “Oh! I don’t have a laptop but I have a laser etcher and everyone is etching stuff onto their laptop,” so it really was not like the most genius plan. It was sort of a circumstantial thing but I mean it was really an interesting exercise in marketing more than anything else. I had never really done any marketing on the internet or really been out there at all. I don’t even think I had a blog. I had like no internet presence. There was no such thing as Instagram and Twitter. So really I wasn’t on the web at all and I think what you brought up about sort of the way the media portrayed it is so different than how it would be done today. It’s so—it’s so funny. Like, “Young Cute Girl Does Something on the Internet” like you’d never see that anymore. JL Oh, thankfully. LC It’s probably a good thing. Yeah. Yeah yeah but it wasn’t just that, there were like these “Sexiest Geeks” lists and things like that, and it just would not fly nowadays. JL I mean—I know that we still have like a lot more work to do in terms of, you know, equal pay and equal representation but at least we have made it past some of these. LC Yeah. One of the things I’m actually kind of bothered by recently is I—I’m all for the #metoo movement, but I think what’s kind of slightly disturbing to me about is that we want—I think there’s this desire to talk about workplace inequality and the fact that it kind of gets turned into something sexual or has like this focus on sexual assault. It’s like, “Well, can we make the conversation a little broader?” Like can we talk about power dynamics and women in leadership? And we do but I think it’s less salacious and it doesn’t get as much media attention. And so I’m a little disappointed in that angle of it but hopefully we’ll get there. JL Yeah it’s like there are so many battles—there are so many battles to fight. LC Yeah! Which one? Yeah you know? JL I know it’s like I can—I can like only laugh at it because otherwise I just like, my sighs, sometimes my sighs are so loud. But I just like what are we— LC Yeah so it’s—you’re right. I think maybe it is good to just focus on one bat—one battle at a time but also to have like tangible goals. Like what is the tangible goal of a certain movement? And I think movements are most effective when they have like a piece of legislation you can pass or you know some rules that companies now enact. I think people want simple solutions for complex problems and I think bridging that gap is something that’s really difficult to do. JL Yeah, that is a hundred percent accurate. I think sometimes when we can’t find those solutions, then we feel a little hopeless and I think hopefully though the more that—more people put their heads together about it, the more that those solutions will come. LC And everything changes, and everything gets better. I just listened to an episode of The Modern Love podcast, reading an essay from 2012, which I totally recommend people go check out the latest episode of Modern Love podcast. But it was basically a father talking about his gay son and his gay son’s desire to marry his partner and the essay just feels dated. And it’s not that old. You know? And I think that’s so shocking: how fast things change. And for the better. I mean it’s a good thing. It made me sad and hopeful at the same time. JL So, speaking of getting along and, you know, optimism and productivity, before your role now at Breaker, you were an engineer at Dropbox working on engineer productivity and happiness, which I think just sounds amazing. Can you tell us more about your role there? LC So at Dropbox I ended up working on the engineering product design team, helping—basically helping engineers and designers throughout their lifecycle at Dropbox. So from the time they first joined Dropbox in their first day through moving around between teams or moving up to become a manager or they’re at sort of the exit interview, if they left Dropbox. And it was pretty interesting. So I ended up on that team because I helped build an internal tool for Dropbox, actually a framework for hosting internal tools called AppBox. And I built it sort of during Hack Week, we had these—Dropbox has these like Hack—Hack Weeks where you can work on anything you want and a lot of the times what people work on is stuff for Dropbox. So, you know, a lunch menu, or a seating chart, or all these tools that people at Dropbox use all the time that aren’t, you know, readily available. So their priority tools are—you want to build with like a special sort of like internal company feel to them. So I built this platform for building new tools on top of and then recruited engineers during these Hack Weeks to like build new tools on top of it. So that’s actually what most of what I did was run that project so I can talk about internal too—we didn’t have like an internal tools team, we had like an internal developer tools, sort of more focused on build process and things like that. But what I was working on was more social, and so it didn’t quite fit into that space. So I ended up on this team that worked on the entire engineer’s life cycle which was super interesting. It’s like an interesting problem to think about. [45:10] JL Yeah, I love that. We are constantly trying to figure out how, I mean day one of someone starting new I feel like is one of the most difficult things to work with, starting from like, “Ok, let’s make sure we—they have a computer.” So you’re actually joining us today from New Zealand and you were recently a judge at Webstock. Was that totally awesome? LC Yes! It was so fun. I loved Webstock. It was great. It was the first one I’d ever been able to go to because it’s in New Zealand. And I basically said, “Hey! I’m going to be in New Zealand. I didn’t know Webstock was happening at the time, is there anything I can do to help?” And they were like, “Oh, come be a judge for our startup competition.” I thought that was so great and such an honor. It was really fun. JL Is it hard as a judge to give feedback to others about their products? LC Absolutely. I think it’s hard because I see it from their side, right? Like I’ve done three startups. I’ve done startup competitions. You know, I’ve gone to hackathons and competed and submitted my projects before judges. And, like I said, I think on the hiring side of things it applies here as well, on the judging side, it’s like I think so many of the decisions are just arbitrary. Like you happen to answer a question in the particular right way that the judge wanted to hear, you had like a good looking slide that got people’s attention. Like it seems—it just all seems so arbitrary and all of the competitors this year at Webstock and the BNZ startup competition were all just fantastic. And so it was really hard to say like, “This company is better than another company,” because it’s just—that’s not the way it is. They are just very different. And, like I said, they were all really good. JL So for something like that, what do you find the best way for feedback—like do you find like the line it’s hard to like discourage people because like their project is great but they can’t all win? LC Yeah! I actually went up to most—I tried to make a point to go up to most of the folks who didn’t win and talk with them about their projects just to, you know, I think what matters when you’re building a company is it’s always nice to see someone who cares, who paid attention, and knows what you’re doing, and has follow-up questions, and—and I saw this as well with the other panelists and judges they actually offered to help companies. Like, “Hey, you know, BNZ you didn’t win the competition but how can we help you? Who can we connect you with to take you to that next step?” Because startups, it’s not like you win or lose, it’s like always a constant journey, right? Like even—even when you’re a giant company, you’re not always winning. It’s this constant process. So I think a lot of it is asking those startups, “Hey, how can we help and how can we take you to that next level?” And sometimes that pride of winning the prize matters and sometimes it doesn’t. One of the judges actually lost the same competition she had entered years before and had lost and came back as a judge and has a successful startup here in New Zealand. So— JL I think it’s so important, again, you know we’ve talked about this a lot is like how to keep going with these like products that you obviously love because you’re working on them and putting your heart into and so just wrapping up here: I’d love to hear more about your approach at looking at your work and looking back and saying, “What am I doing right? What are things I wish I’m doing differently?” And like how—how you handle that. LC I actually spend a lot of time doing self-evaluation. And I think mostly because I’m kind of someone who worries a lot. So I’m always sort of thinking about, “Hey, could I be doing this better?” And sometimes I have to sort of almost take that pressure off of myself. One of the things I struggle with personally is that I don’t feel like I act or look like other founders, especially in my attitudes around building product, getting users, things like that. I don’t think I’m completely like your typical startup founder and I have to sort of talk myself into, “You can only be the best person you can be.” And this is like kind of the thing I get pumped up about. I’m like, ok, I can only do the things I can do. I can keep trying to get better, but I can’t beat myself up about not being like someone else. I just have to sort of be myself and work with what I have and take it to that—that next step. So that’s—that’s sort of what I’m always thinking about in terms of self-improvement. And there are definitely things I’m working on right now. I’m working on giving better feedback. That’s something I’m always working on is how can I give feedback well and really help other people as opposed to just like saying what I think which I think is always a struggle. KL Yeah. We’re dying to know. JL That’s great. When you find an answer, please let us know. [49:35] LC I think—yeah I don’t know. I don’t know. I think one of the things I’ve learned is like give feedback in—or, give criticism in private, give praise in public. Really work on how to articulate how I feel about something or think about something. A lot of times I just assume other people think the same way I do which is not true at all, right? Like we think everyone’s like us and our reaction to something is going to be the same reaction that everyone has to that thing and that’s not true. So it’s like how to explain like—like just today I gave feedback on like sort of an unread count of something and I had to say, “Hey, I’m the kind of person where I see an unread number and it makes me anxious and x, y, and z and blah blah blah blah.” And I wasn’t actually complaining about the teacher, I think the teacher’s great, but it was like, “How can we make this a comfortable process for people who are—people who like to check things off their inbox and have everything be done versus someone who just kind of lets things go and doesn’t really care about that. I think those are two very different personality types and so I think a lot of the struggle is like realizing what type of personality I am and how to express that as a user and then looking at other personality types. Like how do users who care about personal stats treat like a product? So I’m not someone who cares about every single stat, about what episodes I listen to or like, or things like that. Like they’re kind of fun to me, I’m like, “Oh, that’s interesting.” There’s some people who are like—coming at this whole game like, “Hey, I want to listen to more episodes of a podcast this week than I did last week.” And so how do put myself in their shoes or like understand that we have users that are—have different mindsets than myself. So that’s—I’m kind of working on that as well. JL That’s awesome. I think those people would not like my 35,000 unread email messages bubble. That’s the thing. LC As long as you’re ok with it. As long as you personally— JL Thank you! It does not bother me. LC I’m so glad I don’t work on email. That’s like the one communication tool I’m like, I say this now, and like say in 20 years, we forget about email. It’ll just be like, “Oh god, ok yeah.” JL Well, I hope we get to have you back on the show then to talk about your new email project so— LC Oh my god no. JL Leah, anything else you’d like to share with our listeners uh today? LC I guess what I’d like to say is definitely check out Breaker, let me know what you think. I actually read every single feedback email people send us, I may not reply personally, but I definitely read them. So if you have feedback uh let us know, we’ve actually really worked hard to create a company based on user feedback because we understand that not everyone is like ourselves. So you could listen to the next episode of this podcast on Breaker. Let us know what you think. JL Well, Leah, thank you so much for joining us today. It was super awesome. LC Thank you so much for having me. Fuck Yeah of the Season: Tiny Revelations SWB So usually, right before we wrap up, we have our Fuck Yeah of the Week. And that’s something or someone we’re super hyped about during that given week. But here we are, this is Episode 10, and we’re taking a couple weeks off after this. And so I think it’s appropriate to not just have a Fuck Yeah of the Week, but to have a Fuck Yeah of the Season because it’s been kind of a badass season for us here at No, You Go. So I’d like to give a big Fuck Yeah to all of the people who have shared their ideas with us and have been so generous with their time and so many of them have given me what I’m calling, like, tiny revelations where they said something kind of off the cuff, they said this one little sentence, and I find it, like, sticking in my brain and I think about over and over and over again and I think we should take a couple of minutes and talk about what some of those are. Katel, what’s your tiny revelation? KL Yeah. Gosh. I think a really recent episode we did with Stevie where they talked about the sentiment of the practice of allyship, has just stuck with me so much and just the idea that we can constantly be working on this, that we can constantly practice being better to each other, being better supporters of each other, and just that it’s a work in progress. I think that that is so important and something that we can all think about and do in very little ways that amount to something much bigger. JL Yeah, that was a great one. Oh, there are so many great ones. One of the ones that really sticks with me is I loved Sara Chipps’ interview. And one of the things Sara said was, “Everyone has a good idea, right? But how do you—how do you get that started?” And she said, “Ideas are worthless unless it’s something that gets made.” So you know if it’s going to take a thousand baby steps then if you start today you’ll only have 999 left. But if you don’t, then it’s never going to happen. And I love that. You know I’ve talked about this before, I’m a really big fan of the—of, you know, the getting things done method and how you go from idea to really getting it somewhere and we talked about that with Leah today and I also loved so many things that Leah said about this, because I feel like I always have so many ideas in my head and I want to be able to take them from that into something tangible and so I loved the advice that Sara had about how to get your product out and running. I just think it’s so cool. KL Sara, what about you? [54:30] SWB It’s really hard to pick because there’s so many things that I find myself returning to but one of the ones that has sort of lodged itself in my brain where like sometimes I’ll literally be in the middle of working on something, or I’ll be like getting ready for bed, brushing my teeth, whatever, and I find myself thinking it is what Eileen Webb said way back in episode two. She said, “Why should my work get all of my best brain?” And I think what made me really get stuck on that was how much it upended assumptions that I had that I didn’t know that I had about work. Like, that I’d always sort of assumed that spending my best brain, like the—the—the parts of the day where I feel the smartest and most competent, spending the bulk of my time on my work was like inherently good. And an inherently like

Learning from successes and failures: this week Paul and Rich talk to Michael Sippey, whose career spans the history of the web, from blogging pioneer to Six Apart to director of product at Twitter to startup founder. He details his work at Twitter during a time of transition for the social network, and then shares frank perspectives about launching and recently shutting down his startup, Talkshow.

This week, we have the very distinct pleasure of talking to a gentleman who is not only a talented member of the WordPress community … but the one responsible for it. Rainmaker.FM is Brought to You By Discover why 201,344 website owners trust StudioPress, the industry standard for premium WordPress themes and plugins. Launch your new site today! Matt Mullenweg is the founding developer of WordPress, which currently powers over 26% of sites on the web. The WordPress website says it s “a state-of-the-art semantic personal publishing platform.” More importantly, WordPress is a part of who Matt is. In this episode Brian Gardner, Lauren Mancke, and Matt Mullenweg discuss: Matt s start with WordPress Founding Automattic in 2005 The difference between WordPress.com and WordPress.org Analysis of the premium theme market Generating revenue in the WordPress Ecosystem The spirit of GPL in Open Source Adding paid themes to WordPress.com Making a profit with premium plugins The future of WordPress Listen to StudioPress FM below ... Download MP3Subscribe by RSSSubscribe in iTunes The Show Notes Follow Matt on Twitter Visit Matt’s Website Read Matt’s Blog WordPress.com WordPress.org Automattic The Transcript How (and Why It’s Ok) to Make Money with WordPress, with Matt Mullenweg Voiceover: Rainmaker FM. StudioPress FM is designed to help creative entrepreneurs build the foundation of a powerful digital business. Tune in weekly as StudioPress founder Brian Gardner and VP of StudioPress Lauren Mancke share their expertise on web design, strategy, and building an online platform. Lauren Mancke: On this week’s episode, Brian and I are joined by Matt Mullenweg, the founder of Automattic, to discuss how (and why it’s okay) to make money with WordPress. Brian Gardner: Hey, everyone. Welcome to StudioPress FM. I am your host, Brian Gardner, and I’m joined as usual by my co-host, the vice president of StudioPress, Lauren Mancke. Lauren Mancke: Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining us this week. We are continuing our series on talking to members of the WordPress community. Brian Gardner: Now, today we have the very distinct pleasure of talking not just to a member of the WordPress community, but one of the people responsible for it. Matt Mullenweg is the founding developer of WordPress, which, as it stands to date, powers over 26 percent of the web. Probably more even at that point. The WordPress website says it’s a “state of the art semantic personal publishing platform,” but more importantly to Matt, WordPress is a part of who he is. Matt, it’s a huge pleasure to have you on the show StudioPress FM, welcome. Matt Mullenweg: Awesome. I’m very excited to be here. Brian Gardner: There is a huge back story to all of this. For those of you who have been following StudioPress and me over the years, you know that I got started in WordPress in 2006, 2007. I can’t believe it’s been that long. We were just talking about that. I wanted to start at the beginning of your journey. I know in 2005 you founded Automattic and that is the secret force behind WordPress, Akismet, Gravatar, VaultPress, IntenseDebate, and a number of other smaller entities. This story for you goes further back though. Before Automattic formed, you and Mike Little forked this little blogging platform called b2. Run through us the early years of WordPress and what it was back then you were hoping to achieve. Matt’s Start with WordPress Matt Mullenweg: Oh, our goals were very modest. I would say that back then we were just looking to have some good software for ourselves. To have something that we could use and continue. B2 had a pretty good community around it. There were some forums we would participate in. It had a pretty cool active little thing going on, and it just seemed a shame that it was slowing down. Mike and I had already interacted on the forums a lot. We followed each other’s blogs. He was releasing code and I was releasing code. He’s also a super nice guy, so it just seemed very natural to work together. It’s funny though, that we didn’t actually get to meet in person until many years later. Brian Gardner: Yeah. I find that to be — Lauren and I are good examples of that. We met probably three or four years ago in person, but had known each other five or six years even before that. It’s funny how we can, in our Internet lives, finally get to that point where you get to do that ‘in real life’ thing with people who you’ve met, or known, or entrusted with a business, or even just become really good friends. To not really get to meet them in person for years down the road … Quick question though with Mike. You met on the forums. At what point did you think to yourselves, “We need to fork the software,” and then just take it and do your own thing with it? Matt Mullenweg: At the point when it was no longer being developed and it didn’t appear like there was a way forward. In some ways, for a period of time there, b2 was abandoned. When proprietary software gets abandoned you’re just out of luck. If open source gets abandoned, you can pick it up and run with it. So there was a fumble, we picked the ball, and we tried to take it to the end zone. And that is the extent of my sports metaphors I have the knowledge to make. Brian Gardner: Especially in San Francisco, right? We won’t talk about the 49ers right now. Matt Mullenweg: It’s funny you talked about meeting people though. We actually have a tool inside Automattic that tracks who you’ve met in person. So you have a percentage and everything. Right now, because we just had our grand meet up, I’m at 81%, which is pretty high. That means I’ve met 404 of the 501 total Automatticians. Brian Gardner: I just saw the picture of you guys. You guys were on Whistler, right? Matt Mullenweg: We were, Whistler, British Columbia. Brian Gardner: I just saw the picture and I was thinking to myself, “That is a lot of people.” Matt Mullenweg: Yeah, I agree. Brian Gardner: Did you think that back then when you and Mike forked this piece of software, that 10, 12 years later, however long it’s been, you would be in charge of a company with 400 or 500 people? Matt Mullenweg: Never in a million years. If I had had a big ambition at that time it was maybe to be a really good webmaster or have a little hosting company with 500 clients or something. It was very modest. I think the big business plan idea was I could get 500 people paying me $20 a month. That was it. I was like, “Then I can just retire.” Lauren Mancke: Some people get confused with WordPress initially because there’s WordPress.com and WordPress.org and they might not know the difference. For our listeners, can you give us a little explanation about which one is for who? The Difference Between WordPress.com and WordPress.org Matt Mullenweg: It’s all WordPress in that WordPress.com runs the WordPress software. I would say WordPress.com is a good place to go if you just want to dip your toes in. As you’re first getting started, it’s a great place to start. It’s got our great community features built in. It’s got built-in live chat support, so if you ever get stuck there’s someone there to help you. And it’s pretty difficult to break it, so there’s nothing you can do there that can’t be fixed pretty easily. It also showcases some of the latest interface work around what we call Calypso, which is essentially a next-generation interface for WordPress. So WordPress.com is a very good place to start. An advantage is that if you ever outgrow it — which many people never do — that it’s very easy to move to a web host where, if you wanted to run specific plug-ins or modify the code on your theme, you could do so. That’s what in the community we call WordPress.org. This idea that you went to website WordPress.org, downloaded the software and installed it yourself. The terminology is a little confusing, and I hope someday we come up with something that makes a little more sense. But you can think of it as, if you want to modify code you’ll want to run the software someplace other than WordPress.com. If you’re not planning to modify the code, WordPress.com’s probably the best place. Brian Gardner: Yeah. I’ve been on the outside looking in on WordPress.com stuff, primarily because when I first got started with blogging I was playing around with Blogger, which really was a competitor and still is — not so much anymore. Then I jumped right over WordPress.com and went right into the self-hosted version which is WordPress.org where you can download the software and install it. It’s been interesting to not really have that experience with WordPress.com but be able to watch you guys develop that over the years, knowing that it is the precursor to what’s coming into the .org side of things. This is maybe a bad diagnosis, but in my eyes I’ve always seen WordPress.com as the place where Automattic makes money and WordPress.org is where the community makes its money. I realize there are opportunities on both for us all to make money, but is that a fairly safe generalization to make, that WordPress.com is the focal point from a revenue standpoint for Automattic, whereas the community side is left to WordPress.org? Matt Mullenweg: Yeah. It’s not a perfect characterization, both because Automattic has a diversified business which makes money in several different places and several different ways — including WordPress.org — and that the community utilizing WordPress software and the freedoms of the GPL can make money from WordPress.com, and does quite a bit, but also can leverage it in many other ways, some of which don’t even look like WordPress on the surface. Lauren Mancke: Let’s jump back to 2007. As you know, Brian launched a commercial theme called Revolution. What were your initial thoughts on this, the fact that someone chose to commoditize something you created? At this time WordPress was seen as less of a CMS and more for blogging. A lot of the themes were free. Was this something you expected to see? The Spirit of GPL in Open Source Matt Mullenweg: The first freedom of the GPL is the freedom to use the software for any purpose. You can modify it, you can see how it works, and you can distribute those modifications. There’s absolutely nothing, and has never been anything wrong with selling things on top of WordPress. Yeah, I think it was a very natural conclusion, especially because themes value in scarcity. Versus plug-ins or core, which has value in abundance. Brian Gardner: For me though, I don’t know. It’s safe to say at the beginning with this whole Revolution thing it was unclear. To me it was unclear whether or not selling themes was legal, primarily because, if anything, that was an ignorance to what the GPL actually is and what it stands for. There was a lot of discussion going around back then. In my eyes all that confusion was rooted in that licensing issue. I know that it got to a point where I flew to San Francisco to talk to you and Tony about that. What it really means, what we’re allowed to do, and all of that. I take full blame for a lot of that initial confusion and some of the business models that may or may not have been in line with “the spirit of the GPL.” The question I have for you is this — it’s more a comment than anything, but I’m glad that we’re through that period, because that’s was kind of a roller coaster thing. I think that, more than anything, it’s just a community trying to figure out what it is and isn’t allowed to do. Would you agree that it’s nice to be out of that period and into a different period where things are on the table and everybody knows what’s good, what’s not good, that type of thing? Matt Mullenweg: Yeah, and I know there was some confusion around licensing at the time and what license was Revolution under versus the GPL. Was the GPL compatible? Did it violate WordPress’s license? Those sorts of things are pretty natural for this idea that WordPress had grown beyond just the early open source adopters, and folks coming in wanting to build businesses — including yourself — who might not have been as deeply rooted in the philosophy of open source naturally had a fear. I’m not saying this to you in particular, but we still see this today where people say, “Wait, if it’s free and open and users have these rights associated with it, how will I ever build a business? How will I ever make money?” That’s scary for folks, initially. Especially then because there were no examples. Now we have the better part of eight or nine years of not just some money being made, but tens or hundreds of millions of dollars being made on 100 percent GPL, completely free code. You can no longer say, “Can I build a business on open source?” That question’s been resolved for even the biggest skeptics. Brian Gardner: I would agree with that. Jerod Morris: Hey, Jerod Morris here. If you know anything about Rainmaker Digital and Copyblogger, you may know that we produce incredible live events. Well, some would say that we produce incredible live events as an excuse to throw great parties, but that’s another story. We’ve got another one coming up this October in Denver. It’s called Digital Commerce Summit, and it is entirely focused on giving you the smartest ways to create and sell digital products and services. To get all the details and the very best deal on tickets, head over to Rainmaker.FM/Summit. That’s Rainmaker.FM/Summit. Lauren Mancke: I think one of the biggest stamp of approvals the community has gotten over the years was when you guys decided to list commercial themes on the WordPress.org website. Can you tell us a little bit about that decision to incorporate those and the impact it’s made on both WordPress and those developing themes for it? Matt Mullenweg: Sure. Something I’ve always been a big proponent of through the years is sometimes, especially on the community side … You could look at the theme of your team or different areas around this today — we can be a little disciplinarian where we want to say, “This is wrong,” or punish people who do things wrong. I think it is even more powerful — this old southern idea that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar — to highlight good behavior versus trying to punish the bad behavior. The commercial themes list was just a way for us to highlight the good behavior, the people who were doing the right thing in the right way. It’s a carrot more than a stick that we could put out there for good people. Yet another reason to do the right thing besides it just being the right thing. Brian Gardner: I think I bit pretty hard on that carrot. One example of rewarding that good behavior — and to this day I wonder where my life would be if I actually never saw this comment from you. On a blog post from Ian Stewart on ThemeShaper way back in the day, this was after we had released some themes that were against the spirit of GPL and proprietary and all that, I saw a comment that said something to the effect of, “I will gladly promote any theme shop that goes completely GPL.” It was at that point when I saw that comment I almost immediately emailed you and that’s what instigated the trip to San Francisco, the idea that you would reward and put in front of the hundreds and thousands back then — not to know that in the future it would have turned into millions of people — using WordPress. That was an opportunity to — I wouldn’t say come to the light side, because I wasn’t necessarily on the dark side — I just realized that that was an opportunity to come alongside the bigger fish rather than swim against it. An example from you was exactly that, your willingness to promote and help people who were doing things that were in line with the licensing of WordPress. That is a decision I absolutely will never regret. Matt Mullenweg: Yeah, and that’s very much in line with … There’s WordPress the software that you download and run. There’s WordPress.org which is a website, a community hub for everyone working on WordPress and interested in WordPress. It’s an editorial product. The things that we choose to highlight and promote there are showing a point of view. Something I’ve always been big on since the site first started was being thoughtful and deliberate about what we choose to link to from there, highlight from there, promote from there. Because it is an endorsement, and you’re defined by what you endorse in many ways. Adding Paid Themes to WordPress.com Brian Gardner: As well as those who you do endorse are defined by who’s endorsing you. Aside from listing themes on WordPress.org that we had just talked about, you also opened up that same capability to a smaller degree on WordPress.com. You invited some premium theme developers back then and gave them a way to make money with a very big distribution pool, the user base of WordPress.com. That was a sign that I realized, as I alluded to earlier, that WordPress.com is what I would always in my head call “Matt’s baby.” I always felt that that was something that you govern and protected more than the .org site. Not that at any point did you — I don’t think it was favoritism. But I always knew that was the focal point, at least, for Automattic. So opening that door to allowing people to sell themes on WordPress.com was a huge declaration of that willingness to expose and open up the possibilities of making money with WordPress more on the .com side here. It’s also something I know you guys at Automattic have joined as well, because I know you have some themes there and are participating in that. I’m curious, how is that going? It’s been probably what, four, five years maybe, since WordPress.com has opened up the ability for folks to purchase premium themes and all that. Is that going well and continuing to go well for both the users and the developers? Matt Mullenweg: There’s a couple of things there. It’d be good to dive into history and then also talk about the present. On the history, my memory’s kind of fuzzy here, but part of what caused some of the premium theme stuff was we had actually announced that program and then didn’t follow through on it. And hadn’t you developed a theme and you’re like, “Okay, I’m just going to release this because it’s not going to be for sale on WordPress.com.” Or was that later? Brian Gardner: It may have been later. I do know we were one of the three initial groups, but that does sound vaguely familiar, that there was a little bit of that happening back then. Matt Mullenweg: Yeah, I think it was probably early 2007, or maybe even 2006. It seemed like a cool idea to have a marketplace. We reached out to folks, I don’t remember exactly what happened, but there was something where we didn’t launch it. But I had announced it in WordCamp Argentina, which was the first international WordCamp, and talked about it on stage. And then, I think because of the GPL issue, we put it off. We couldn’t decide how to make the code available while also preventing people from it being available. Then people just started to release them themselves — including the Revolution team — which we thought was really good. Yeah, of course. I think it was you, might have been Chris Pearson — Brian Gardner: You want to open that box? Matt Mullenweg: — that were the first ones that we reached out to because y’all had some of the best and coolest free themes. Today it’s been interesting. In the beginning, everyone was worried about GPL affecting their business. The reality is that business is just hard, full-stop. Even if you’re not open source, it’s really tough. Even if you’re not open source, people can copy your features. We have Wix and Squarespace. They don’t use any of WordPress’s code, but they’ve copied a lot of our features and are good competitors. Analysis of the Premium Theme Market Matt Mullenweg: The thing that’s happened with the success of premium themes more broadly is that a lot of people have gone into the market, so even though the pie has grown, it gets sliced thinner and thinner and thinner for each individual theme shop. I think overall, themes have grown. Sites like ThemeForest have really driven a commodification so that individual theme shops that maybe used to make six figures a month, they’re now making five figures a month or less. That has been a trend. But it’s also a natural thing that you can expect with a successful market. People, including yourself, Brian, who talked about how successful it was — that draws people in. On WordPress.com we’ve seen a little less of that, partially because we don’t allow everyone in, so there’s less commodification of the general size of it. Also, a lot of our theme authors — we’ve been trying to switch everyone towards subscriptions and away from one-time purchases. As you might be familiar, with our WordPress.com business plan you can have access to any premium theme, all of them, and you can switch them 10 times. You don’t have to buy them individually. What we do is we take a portion of that business subscription and we pay it back to the theme author. That recurs every year, versus being a one-time sale. You get that over and over and over as long as that person is a WordPress.com customer, which creates a much more stable and sustainable business. I think it’d be cool as well to have this in our premium plan, which has a lot more subscribers than our business plan, which is $300 a year. We can facilitate people to profit from a subscription model. I think that that helps create more stable businesses that are less boom and bust, particularly in the theme space. As you know, people can only run one theme at a time. Brian Gardner: Yeah. I wish I would’ve had that advice years ago when StudioPress started and I made the decision to do that as a transactional thing. There was never a point where I personally, up until the merger at Copyblogger, did I ever want to make the switch over to a recurring plan — even though there were other folks who were starting to move in that direction. For whatever reason I just thought to myself, “I don’t know if I can make that move.” And, of course, StudioPress merged into Copyblogger. We are still transactional at StudioPress, but we have the benefit of having other products and software and services around WordPress that are on a recurring basis so that we’ve never really had to make that change. That’s interesting. Matt Mullenweg: It’s the best. If you can do it, it works really well. Something that was really obvious to me early on is that you buy a theme and you get support forever. I was like, “Support costs money, so if I’m giving you money once and then I’m costing you money indefinitely, forever into the future, at some point that might actually cross over.” Brian Gardner: Yeah, WooThemes was an example. I think they were transactional at one point and then they transparently talked about why they made that decision, because of the fact that they just couldn’t scale the support and that “unlimited support” for them in the way that they were handling their business just wasn’t doable anymore. So they made a switch at one point then to go recurring. Matt Mullenweg: They did, and that I think was pretty controversial for them. Brian Gardner: Yeah, they got a lot of backlash. Matt Mullenweg: It was before the acquisition that we did, so I wasn’t 100 percent privy to it. But definitely saw some of that from afar and didn’t envy their position. They were essentially saying, “Hey, this thing that used to be included is now no longer included,” which is tough to do. Lauren Mancke: I think the recurring payments is something I brought up when I first came on board at StudioPress because I saw some other companies doing it. But it is definitely tricky with the backlash. We’ve talked about themes, and that’s an obvious way for members of the WordPress community to make money, but there’s so many other ways for an individual or company to generate a profit using WordPress. Can you share with us a little bit of the other ways you’ve seen the community generate revenue? Generating Revenue in the WordPress Ecosystem Matt Mullenweg: Oh, I was actually coming on this podcast to say you’re not allowed to make money with WordPress under any circumstances. Sorry. Was there a miscommunication beforehand? Brian Gardner: I guess we’ll scrap the episode. Matt Mullenweg: Cool. Yeah, I mean y’all have seen it. Where to start? Anything that creates value for someone who is getting from point A to point B. No one wakes up in the morning — well some of us do, but most people don’t wake up in the morning and say, “I want to use WordPress today.” They’re probably saying, “I want more customers in my restaurant,” or “I want to sell more of my widget,” or “I want an audience for my blog that someday I want to turn into a book or leverage into speaking opportunities or something.” They have some goals. WordPress is a means to an end. As WordPress reaches a larger and larger number of people — because it does a really good job doing most of what people want — even the very niche users like, “I want to use WordPress to sell houses,” become valuable niches. If you can help people do that and you generate a lot of value for them, they will be willing to pay you back some of that. Open their wallet in some regard, whether that’s buying something directly from you, whether that’s coming to your events, whether that’s reading your site and clicking on the ads — whatever it is. There are a lot of opportunities there. As many different ways as there are to be in business in general, there’s ways to make money with WordPress, because making money with WordPress is no different from making money in the world. It’s just that you’re getting the benefit of this huge open source platform and community as a distribution mechanism. And you’re part of a community that is a bit more conscious and awake about, “How do we keep this sustainable going forward? How do we give back and make sure that 10 years from now WordPress is just as vibrant?” But other than that it’s pretty much the same as any other business you do. Brian Gardner: Yeah, I would say over the 10 years I’ve been doing stuff with WordPress, I’ve covered a lot of the different ways to make money. Even before selling themes I was selling my services on customizing themes. So there would be money for hire on a freelance level. Then, of course, I started selling themes, so there was the commodity or transactional version of making money through WordPress. And then we took StudioPress and merged it into Copyblogger where we, like you say, sell some of the training or the assistance. Helping people who are either on it or trying to use it themselves. We obviously have a small hosting division. And then we have Rainmaker, so there’s a software as a service. I feel like I’ve had a really broad experience, and I’m sure there are even … Matt Mullenweg: You’ve done them all. Brian Gardner: Yeah, exactly. Well, I’m sure there are even other ways. Plug-ins became a big thing after the premium theme market. Folks like Gravity Forms and WooCommerce are two huge examples — Pippin with Easy Digital Downloads. So plug-ins — there’s a huge market for that. Where do you see holes though in the WordPress community in terms of that opportunity to make money? Is there anything or are there any areas that you think yourself, “Man, I wish somebody would go out and go do X?” Matt Mullenweg: You know, having a company in the space, when I think that, we usually do it. Brian Gardner: Yeah, I walked right into that one. But there’s got to be smaller stuff. Things that aren’t important enough for you guys to cover. You would think, “Hey, it’d be great if a little company just came alongside and did this.” Matt Mullenweg: I would say to follow my blog and follow my Twitter. Because I put out — it is true that I probably have 10 or 100 times more ideas than we’ll ever be able to get to. My philosophy is to always just put them out there, and if they happen that’s great. Brian Gardner: Yeah, I’ve been asked, probably on a number of different occasions on different podcasts, “Why doesn’t Genesis do X,” or “Why aren’t you guys going after this particular market?” Like you, I say, “You know what? We’ve only got so many developers and designers and people in-house. We’re just not going to spend our time going there.” But I always throw it up as a layup. I say, “Hey, this is a great opportunity for someone to come alongside, wink wink, and take over and take that opportunity.” I think I’ve seen it a few times where someone’s taken that bait and then gone and done it. We, like you, try to reward people and our community who do good work and try to expose them and help promote their stuff too. That’s a good idea though, to leave a breadcrumb trail of ideas and things that might be of interest or have value or potential for monetization that we can’t get to. At least you’re leaving that open for others to see. Matt Mullenweg: Totally, and also it’s just good to share. Making a Profit with Premium Plug-ins Lauren Mancke: Let’s jump back. You mentioned some premium plug-ins. Let’s jump back to those. Matt, can you give us an example of plug-ins that are being sold right now that you think are a great and solid solution for WordPress users? Matt Mullenweg: The obvious ones I don’t want to unfairly advantage, because there’s a lot of really good ones. I don’t want to mention one and not another, so I’m just going to mention ours. Brian Gardner: Safely. Matt Mullenweg: The things that Automattic sells — we have some service plug-ins available generally through Jetpack, but you can get VaultPress or Akismet, which are backup and security services and anti-spam services. These are essentially lightweight plug-ins. What they do is they connect you to an external service that, in the case of a Akismet, uses the intelligence of seeing hundreds of millions of things a day to help keep spam off your sites. VaultPress takes a copy of your blog and stores it literally in 12 places. So even if a meteor hits 11 of them, we would still have a copy of your blog that would be safe and available to restore. Those are the lightweight things. We also have plug-ins largely that came in through the WooThemes acquisition, including WooCommerce — there’s over 300 extensions for WooCommerce — and smaller things like WordPress Job Manager or Sensei that are essentially like little miniature applications that you can put on top of WordPress that transform it. In the case of Sensei, it turns it into a learning management system, something if you wanted to run classes online and help people it’s all there. Brian Gardner: Let’s talk about the acquisition of Woo for a little bit. I think in the big picture of the WordPress community that was the big, “Oh my gosh. Did you hear?” type of thing. I know when I read it there was … Adii and I, back in the day, started things out side-by-side and were really big competitors back when WooThemes got started and all of that. You run this race with people and when you see something like this, “Automattic acquires WooThemes and WooCommerce,” and you start hearing figures of seven and eight figures, my instinct was to instantly get jealous and think, “Oh, that sucks. Why can’t that happen to me?” But then you realize that … Matt Mullenweg: Well, you got to reach out. Brian Gardner: Is that how it works? Lauren Mancke: Yeah. We’ll talk after the podcast. Brian Gardner: We’ll have a follow-up phone call. No, in all honesty though, it made sense for WordPress as a platform to try to go after the e-commerce thing. So yes, you have to realize that there was a lot of wisdom in that acquisition. Is that the type of thing that you guys look for specifically? I know there’s a lot of people making money all over the place, but I’m sure there’s lots of things like that on your radar where you say, “We want to go after a certain type of market or a certain type of user. These folks or that business already has built a solid piece of that and it’s a good idea for us to then go pursue.” Is that what happened, just the movement towards e-commerce through WordPress and the acquisition of Woo and WooCommerce? Matt Mullenweg: Yeah. It was really driven, first and foremost, by e-commerce as a category. From Automattic’s point of view, we were hearing for a really long time the demand from our users on WordPress.com that they wanted e-commerce. The demand from our partners, places like Web hosts, that sometimes as many as half their customers signing up were saying they wanted to sell things online and the solutions there were not good. We really did look holistically at all the WordPress add-ons, including Woo, Easy Digital Downloads, WP commerce — there’s probably even more. All the services: Shopify, Ecwid, BigCommerce, PresstaShop — everything out there. And the big guys: eBay, Amazon, Etsy, the more centralized approaches. And began to really map it out and explore different options, including talking to folks like Shopify a lot. I think Shopify has a really great user experience and has built a pretty interesting business there. What they built at Woo was super impressive — the team that was putting it together and the breadth of its adoption and the ecosystem around it. I had been trying to signal for several years that Automattic was going to move into e-commerce. We’re a big elephant in the room, so I don’t like for there to be surprises for people. In fact, prior to the acquisition I reached out to the other folks and said, “Hey, just so you know, this is going to happen and be announced next week or next month,” or whenever it was. Just because I feel like that’s the polite thing to do. But probably what drove the decision there was that e-commerce for WordPress needs to be a platform, meaning that the core software that drives the commerce engine needs to be available as widely as possible, really robust. It needs to be something that scales from a small store selling just a handful of T-shirts to really huge stores with 60, 70,000 skews doing tens of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. We wanted that to be something that lots of other businesses could be built on, and Woo was the best fit that we identified at the time. That was just about a year ago, and a lot has happened over the past year. We joined these two different companies into one. Woo had a lot of similarities to Automattic, so that made it a bit easier both in how they were distributed and how they ran the company, everything. But we then started to look at, How can we grow this?” We’ve increased the size of the Woo team by over 40 percent and that’s still growing. The developers on the core software and the core areas have gone up by 5x, so a lot more people working on the software. We’re looking at it from a very long-term view. Automattic has a very strong business already. What can we subsidize or invest in or support to make Woo a platform that, just like WordPress, is one that’s a commerce engine for the next decade? Brian Gardner: Well, just like you, we’ve been asked by our users all the time also, “When are you going to have e-commerce themes?” and things like that. Back before the acquisition it was always like, “We can’t design for WooCommerce because they’re technically a competitor.” I got all weirded out about all of that. But when the acquisition took place I started thinking to myself, “Okay, there’s a bigger vision here for all of us here, and it goes beyond just trying to compete or not compete against other people.” I wouldn’t call this an announcement, because I have alluded to it a little bit here on social media in the same way you sometimes do, but we’re very excited that we are focusing our themes — I’m literally designing one as we speak that will be WooCommerce compatible. Matt Mullenweg: Oh, cool. That is news to me, so thank you. Brian Gardner: The writing, for sure, is on the wall, and we’re now at a point where we can focus and dedicate some of our time. This may take a little bit of time, but my hope is to take all of our existing themes on StudioPress and work in the WooCommerce component. At the very least to make WooCommerce out of the box look good. Our emphasis, then, will be on continuing to design and develop themes for the Genesis framework and all of that, but as a side note to that, all of them will be styled at a basic level for anyone who wants to use a theme and start selling stuff. So WooCommerce and e-commerce for us is definitely on the radar and the roadmap. That’s very fun for me to — I wouldn’t call it announce, because it’s not a big announcement yet. But it’s been on my mind for six months to a year for sure, as Lauren knows. We’ve had conversations. Matt Mullenweg: Cool. Lauren Mancke: Yes. It’s been on my mind for a couple years now. Brian Gardner: I’m like, “I’m going to do it. This makes sense to me.” That will be coming — the first theme — probably in the next couple weeks, so I’m excited about that. Matt Mullenweg: I think that’s something I’ve always tried to do with Automattic as well, is that we can compete and cooperate at the same time, especially if you think long-term. If we said there were 10 WordPress sites in the world and you and I were going to duke it out for getting them to use your theme or one of the themes that Automattic sells, sure, that’s zero sum. The reality is there are 10 sites today and I’m working on taking that to being 100 sites so we can both get a ton and work together. Automattic works with all the web hosts. We also compete with them with WordPress.com. I just try to think of it from the point of view of what is the best long-term thing for WordPress as a whole. Never let what our particular business might be there …. For example, I love working with other e-commerce platforms besides WooCommerce. There are reasons for people to use something instead of Woo. We could pretend they don’t exist, like Google or Facebook do, or we could just say “Hey, how can we help everyone here with what we’re learning and maybe services we can provide — whether that’s hosting or something else — to make this pretty awesome for whatever people want to choose?” Brian Gardner: That’s a good way to look at it. Lauren Mancke: Matt, you said earlier that you don’t like to have surprises from Automattic. Is there anything you want to hint at for the future? Matt Mullenweg: That’s a good question. Nothing I’m ready to say today. I appreciate the swing at the bat there. Lauren Mancke: It was a try. Brian Gardner: Nice try, Lauren. Lauren Mancke: Yeah. Brian Gardner: Back in the day, I know you weren’t a fan of how the whole licensing and theme things went down and we’ve moved well beyond that. Are there any areas right now within WordPress — within the community, that is — where you see things that you wish would be going a little bit differently? Not that you can control it or anything like that. But is there anything out there that we should just be aware of that maybe there’s room for improvement, or a better way to do a business model, or something like that? Matt Mullenweg: I think the area that — there’s a ton of stuff in core and some really great things that Helen’s working on for Four Seven. Thinking beyond that even, I’d say broader, the thing that I feel like we have the most room for improvement is probably in our directories, both the plug-in and theme directory. When you think of the directories as essentially an interface for users, I think they could be pretty frustrating in terms of how search works. How you discover things. How you get support for it after you’ve used it. And how you know whether things are compatible or not, including having a different approach. With plug-ins, we accept everything and then worry about quality through reviews and reports. With themes, we try to look at everything beforehand. For, honestly a few years, we’ve been pretty behind. You might submit a theme to WordPress and it could take — the WordPress Theme Directory, and it could take months before it goes up. And then we’re still not requiring things like it to be responsive, which is kind of wild in a day when cell phones are a big deal. Maybe even smart phones in the future. There’s good reasons for this, but I think sometimes you can get pretty far down a path by just putting one foot in front of another and not think, “Am I heading in the right direction?” One of the things I’m looking forward to — there’s some good conversations going on in the weekly meetings on Slack. I’ve been talking to a lot of folks and seeing how can we iterate there — both in the design and presentation of the directories, which we’ve done some work for, especially on the plug-in directory. But also in our processes and how we approach them. Lauren Mancke: Matt, is there anything you regret with WordPress? Have there been any decisions made, whether by you or others, that you wish hadn’t happened? Matt Mullenweg: I don’t live with a lot of regrets, so I don’t know if I’d resonate with that particular word. But there are certainly things that in hindsight, if I were doing them today, I would do differently. The theme licensing stuff, especially in 2007 through 2010, has come up a few times. I think part of why that was such trouble was I was less mature as a leader and I thought the best way to hash these issues out was to talk about it and correct everyone in blog comments and do blog posts. Lauren Mancke: And go on Mixergy. Matt Mullenweg: Go on Mixergy. Just prove everyone wrong. We got from point A to point B, but maybe I should’ve done more of what you did, Brian, which is get on a plane and talk to people. Perhaps we could’ve avoided a lot of the back-and-forth and drama that we had. Because we were on the same side of things. You wanted to build a business with WordPress and sell themes, and I wanted more people using WordPress. Those are highly complementary goals. I think now, as a leader — and this has also been something I’ve learned through many of the great people I have the good fortune to work with every day at Automattic — you can approach that differently and really look at talking things through. If one medium of communication — be it email, or Slack, or text, or twitter, or blog post comments hurled across the interwebs — isn’t working, switch to another one. Brian Gardner: I have a question that I’ve been wanting to ask you for a long time now. I hope that you don’t take this in a narcissistic way, because I’m not at all looking for the answer that some people might think. Do you think that the whole premium theme movement has had some degree of impact on the growth and the use of WordPress as we talk about it now, 25% of the Internet and all that kind of stuff? Do you think that without that — I guess that in a natural evolution would’ve always happened at some point, but do you think … ? I was thinking to myself like, “Wow, I was part of the big area of growth within WordPress.” Because I think premium themes proved that. Of course, there’s lots of people involved. This is not at all me trying to take credit for anything. But I always think in the back of my mind that at least I was a part of a movement that helped open WordPress up to a significant amount of users who may not have ever thought of it as anything more than just a little blog platform. Matt Mullenweg: That’s a interesting question. It’s actually one I’ve thought about a lot. Because, if the answer is yes, then what we should be doing is trying to have everything be premium, right? If the answer is no, then we should try to eliminate premium themes. Or maybe it’s someplace in the middle. Based on the data, it’s someplace in the middle. Here’s what I mean by that. In absolute terms, it’s undeniable. You can look at your numbers and say, “I have sold X tens of thousands,” or, for some folks, into the hundreds of thousands of copies of this theme. I’m sure everyone has heard from customers — especially because many premium theme sellers are really good at marketing. I would say better than WordPress.org and better than Automattic in some cases. They say, “I wasn’t going to use WordPress, but I found this theme and I decided to use it.” Have you heard that before? Yeah, so that’s undeniable on an absolute sense. The relative sense, meaning, “Does it change the growth curve of WordPress?” The numbers — because we’re able to track through the update system how many of every theme is run. If you added up all the premium themes, or let’s say all themes not in the directory, which is a good proxy for premium themes — although, as you know, there are some that have up-sells or pro versions of things — it comes to be cumulatively 10 percent, 12 percent. It’s had an impact, but still the vast majority of the overall growth is driven by some of the default themes and the many free ones out there. I think that if you think about this, it makes sense a little bit. Although some people start with WordPress from our premium theme, it might be more likely that when they’re comparing things they’re probably comparing WordPress … They’re either getting it from their web host, and I would say that web hosts have been a big driver of WordPress adoption and growth because it’s one click and they get started there — or they’re comparing it to other solutions like Squarespace, Weebly, etc. They start with WordPress. They’re probably going to start with a free theme because they’re not sure whether it’s going to work for them or not. Then, once they figure it out and they say “Hey, okay this is something I can use to solve my problems,” then they go to premium themes. That’s for everyday users. The other thing that drives this market a lot is developers. It’s folks who know WordPress and they’re being hired to build WordPress sites for people. They have a theme that they love because it enables them to make great-looking client sites really quickly. It’s got the functionality and they know it as a platform on top of WordPress. It’s their go-to. So they’ll buy a copy for every single one of their customers as they build it out. Do they have to? No. But do they want to support you so you’ll make more themes? Of course. Brian Gardner: Yeah, I think the definition of premium, back in the day — I think we at one point even had conversations of calling them paid themes versus premium, because premium’s kind of a subjective term. I’ve seen themes that are free that are probably better coded and better designed than some of the ones I’ve seen being sold. Matt Mullenweg: I think that’s what we call them on WordPress.org too. I think we call them paid themes. Brian Gardner: Paid themes, yeah. Okay, let’s talk about the future of WordPress. Matt Mullenweg: Wait, does that answer makes sense to you? Brian Gardner: It totally does. I realized that when I take myself out of the equation that WordPress is huge. There’s just — like you alluded to, even the hosting. That seems like within the last few years, especially with movements like Go Daddy doing one-click installs, and Bluehost and so on, that the hosting companies could say the very same thing. Saying, “Well, from 2010 on we really had a big role in the growth of WordPress,” and all of that. I’ve just always thought about that one back in the day. It was like, “What would’ve happened if … ?” type of thing. If it wasn’t me, it would’ve been someone else, so it certainly wasn’t my intuition. Matt Mullenweg: It’s also something to keep an eye on. Maybe that percentage of what’s driving changes over time. And also looking at new users, not just total users. I’ll keep an eye on it. I love data. The Future of WordPress Brian Gardner: All right. Let’s talk just about the future of WordPress. We alluded to it a little bit earlier with e-commerce and stuff like that. Not necessarily how folks can make money from it, but where do you see WordPress going and what are the things that maybe stand as the biggest hurdles in terms of growth for Automattic and WordPress and all of that? Matt Mullenweg: I think that what’s cool about WordPress as a platform is that it can do a lot at once, meaning that I believe that WordPress is going to grow hugely as a blogging platform. Some people might think that blogging is dead, but I see the next six billion people coming online and blogging being an interesting thing for a lot of them. It’s growing as an e-commerce platform. It’s growing as a site creator. It’s growing as a platform that people build things — maybe even just using the API, whether that’s a REST API or a PHP APIs, to make applications. Whether they’re using WordPress as a development platform to do things that don’t look like a blog at all. The challenges and threats is that, in every single one of those areas that we’re in, there are some purpose-built tools. And, in fact, an entire company is dedicated to that small area, which are in some cases doing a really good job. If I’m starting a store today, I’m going to compare how easy it is to get started with Woo to how easy it is to get started with Shopify. And today that comparison looks pretty good for Shopify because they’re quite good at providing the hosted service that really on-boards you in a slick way. The same thing in the CMS space and small business space. We’re getting some very good competition from Weebly, Squarespace, and Wix. Wix in particular, has really used marketing to leverage some breakout growth there. We have to keep in mind that they are spending $40 million dollars a quarter, so $160 million dollars this year, which is a big number, in advertising to drive people signing up for Wix. In certain markets now — you can go and the barista at the coffee shop might ask you about Wix. They might see your WordPress shirt and ask you about Wix. If they’re able to create a flywheel effect of that advertising driving brand awareness, driving people asking for Wix, that’s going to start to drive developers away as well, which could be very bad for WordPress. These are the things that we have to keep in mind and also do some coordination across the community. One thing that I’m sure about WordPress is that if we all run our own directions and just try to localize or maximize our own profit and everything, we’ll be outgunned by these other companies. The truth is that Wix’s $300 million dollars in revenue is bigger than any company I am aware of in the WordPress space individually, but it’s much smaller than we are collectively. The question becomes, “How can we work together? How can we team up? And how do we get the right philosophies and the right ways of doing business and everything out there? The best practices so that as we do our own things in our own places, we’re heading in the same direction in a way that, honestly, no company could ever compete with?” Just like the Encyclopedia Britannica could never compete with Wikipedia. Brian Gardner: Yeah, it’s that crowd-sourced approach, whether it be intentional or unintentional. I guess what you’re saying is that you guys at Automattic necessarily can’t, by yourselves, go out and compete against Squarespace or X. But through the enlistment of other, bigger, smaller companies that would themselves go after and cater to the types of people who would be using Squarespace — that is the bigger army. The WordPress as a whole army versus Automattic as the one company behind it. The more companies that are out there trying to build their own things off of WordPress, but to a user that might be interested in using Weebly or Wix or Squarespace, that that’s also a bigger win for you guys or just all of us as a whole. To think we are the ones that are out in the field trying to do the things, so the more we can do for ourselves, ultimately, goes up to the top. Matt Mullenweg: Yeah. It’s all about being long-term. If you think truly long-term about this, that’s how we can win. That’s how we’ve won in the past against competitors like Six Apart that had more people and were better funded, and it’s how we’re going to win against all the ones down the road. We kind of have to. You have a lot of business owners listening to this. Think about what makes this business relevant? What makes the WordPress ecosystem relevant in 10 years. Are you orienting your business to make that a reality? Are you going towards it or away from it? Brian Gardner: Well, I think those are great words for us to close by. I really do want to be sensitive to your time, because I know that you have a lot of things to do, a lot of responsibilities. First of all, before we go though, I do want to personally thank you for WordPress. Without a question, I’m not sitting in the house that I’m in if WordPress wasn’t around. I know that on behalf of all of our users and developers and designers — people who build off of Genesis, which was really built off of WordPress — you have created an ecosystem and an environment which, as you alluded to at the beginning of this call, you probably didn’t even forecast or even think of. It was just a matter of trying to build something for yourself that you could use to do something X. Little did you know, 10 years from now you will have companies making 8 figures a year in revenue and enabling — our company has 60 people. We have 60 people whose families are fed by way of, ultimately, what WordPress has enabled us to do. The stuff like that. I want to thank you. I should text you every once in a while or just shoot you an email and remind you, and say “thank you” and all that. I was a byproduct of your vision. You have put me on WordPress.org before to showcase some good work and stuff like that, so I just didn’t want that going unsaid. As much as I appreciate you being on the show, I also more importantly appreciate for what you’ve allowed me in my life and my family to experience because of the stuff that you did back in the day. Matt Mullenweg: Thank you. I wish I could take credit, but the reality is you’re part of that too. We all are. So let’s all give ourselves a round of applause there, because what we’ve created is pretty impressive and I hope that you can have 10 more houses in the future. Brian Gardner: My wife would like that too. No. Lauren Mancke: Matt, thank you for coming on the show. Everyone, if you like what you heard on today’s show you can find more episodes of StudioPress FM at StudioPress.FM. You can also help Brian and I hit the main stage by subscribing to the show in iTunes. It’s a great way to never ever miss an episode. Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next week.

Ryo Nakamuraさんをゲストに迎えて、JSON Schema, Rails, Postgres, RSpec, ChatOps, Markdown, 絵文字などについて話しました。 Show Notes Qiita クックパッドとマイクロサービス cookpad/garage JSON Schema and Hyper-Schema r7kamura/jdoc JSON SchemaとAPIテスト - YAPC::Asia 2014 Heroku | JSON Schema for the Heroku Platform API JSON Hyper-Schemaのようなサービスディスクリプションがうまくいかない理由 rails/jbuilder rails-api/active_model_serializers apotonick/roar Upgrading GitHub to Rails 3 with Zero Downtime Continuous Delivery at GitHub // Speaker Deck cookpad/chanko PostgreSQL: Documentation: 9.4: JSON Types miyagawa/mongery Query Documents - MongoDB Manual Query Mongo: MySQL to MongoDB Query Translator Rubyテスティングフレームワークの歴史 Transpec - The RSpec Syntax Converter Autodoc - r7km/s r7kamura/ruboty Ruby製HubotクローンのRubotyをSlackで動かす - Qiita jimmycuadra/lita The Twelve-Factor App Heroku | Introducing Heroku Button Hubot Scripting チャット経由でデプロイする - Qiita Markdownを拡張して独自記法をつくる - Qiita increments/qiita-markdown html-pipeline: Chainable Content Filters Open sourcing Twitter emoji for everyone | Twitter Blogs Six Apart絵文字 特集 : 絵文字が開いてしまった「パンドラの箱」 Unicode proposes a way to let an emoji black man and white woman hold hands Advent Calendar - Qiita

The most interesting problems on the web are social, not technical. Once the open, social stack moves into wide use, the real work is going to be on us to create ongoing experiences that inspire, inform, evolve. Avoid this talk if you want to hear about monetizing community, gaming the newest social site for a quick spike in your user numbers, or how to get a [insert cutting edge social platform] strategy for your brand. Instead, we’ll diagram (sentence-like) real examples of marketing and revising (reviving?) web products for connected consumers. Think of it as Mind Hacks for Web Marketers. We’ll show you how sites like Dogster, Etsy, Moo, Photojojo and others parlay initial passions into deep, sustained, active communities. People-powered thinking extends well beyond messaging. Instead, we’ll preach a connected style of marketing that addresses a range of operational areas, both coming & going. We’ll pay particular attention to what happens after launch, as we think an attentive to and fro is the intimate secret of success. Deborah Schultz is a thought leader and innovator on the impact and adoption of Internet technologies and the power of technology to connect society, culture and business. She speaks and consults on the cultural and economic impact of the Internet, and specifically where our social and technological networks overlap. She currently serves as Procter & Gamble’s Strategic Adviser for Social Media & Emerging Technology and has also consulted with and advised Fortune 50 companies including Pepsi, GE, and Citicorp as well as numerous internet startups and VC firms. She is a regular keynote speaker at tech and business conferences. Previously, Deborah was the Marketing Director at Six Apart, ran her own marketing consultancy firm, was a management consultant at AnswerThink and spent five years at Citibank where she developed many of the global bank’s first internet initiatives. One of her proudest accomplishments was launching the Downtown Info Center, a lower Manhattan community center & online hub to revitalize lower Manhattan after the attacks of September 11th. Deborah is a graduate of Barnard College, Columbia University. The former Manhattanite is now a tireless road warrior and can be found in SF, NYC, or Tel Aviv. But wherever she is, she’s always ‘connected’. Licensed as Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/).

Anil Dash of Six Apart joins Marshall and Dave to talk about "the pushbutton web" and everything else that's going on in tech this week.

Anil Dash of Six Apart joins Marshall and Dave to talk about "the pushbutton web" and everything else that's going on in tech this week.

If blogs are the core of your social media diet, how must they adapt to keep your personal and business presence successful? Join us with Six Apart's VP of Products Michael Sippey, live from Sun's campus, as we chat and take your questions through the key updates for your blogs. Stay tuned for an exclusive Socially Speaking giveaway!Michael Sippey is VP of Products at Six Apart, responsible for product strategy and management for the TypePad, Movable Type and Vox blogging platforms. Previously, Michael was part of the founding management team at email services agency Quris, led engagements at the Internet consulting firm Viant, and managed market data and transaction download systems at Advent Software. He blogs at sippey.typepad.com.

If blogs are the core of your social media diet, how must they adapt to keep your personal and business presence successful? Join us with Six Apart's VP of Products Michael Sippey, live from Sun's campus, as we chat and take your questions through the key updates for your blogs. Stay tuned for an exclusive Socially Speaking giveaway!Michael Sippey is VP of Products at Six Apart, responsible for product strategy and management for the TypePad, Movable Type and Vox blogging platforms. Previously, Michael was part of the founding management team at email services agency Quris, led engagements at the Internet consulting firm Viant, and managed market data and transaction download systems at Advent Software. He blogs at sippey.typepad.com.

Audio File:  Download MP3Transcript: Lucy Sanders: Hi everybody. This is Lucy Sanders. I'm the CEO for National Center for Women and Information Technology or NCWIT. And this is one series of interviews we are doing with women who have started with IT companies and with me is Larry Nelson from w3w3.com. Hi Larry. Larry Nelson: Hi. Am I happy to be here. Lucy: Tell us more about w3w3. Larry: W3w3, we've been doing this for ten years. Radio shows, we have been doing a wonderful series here with Lucy here at NCWIT. We audio archives. We are all business. We tend to have focuses and this particularly one obviously is women entrepreneur which is fabulous. Lucy: Well, thank you Larry. We are happy that you are hosting our interviews. Today, we are going to interview a pioneer in blogging and very excited to have Mena Trott with us. She's the cofounder and president of Six Apart and she is responsible for such products as movable type and type pad. Welcome Mena. Mena Trott: Hi, thank you. Thank you for having me. Lucy: It's really exciting to interview you. As everybody listening knows, the blogging in the world is huge and only getting bigger and more important. So why don't you tell us a bit about Six Apart and we're also curious to know where the name came from. Mena: OK, Let me preface] this thing. I'm overextended personally because I have a daughter in October 2007 and so I don't do that many interviews anymore and so I'm rusty please forgive me. Six Apart is the company behind the name of our products we founded it in July 2002 officially even though it came out in 2001. And the name, really comes from the fact that my husband and I who was my co-founder, our birthdays are six days apart. It was supposed to be a name that we didn't think most people would ever ask why it was called that. But as the company's became so popular we have to explain it quite a bit. But it's pretty silly. Lucy. Well, I think it is a great name. Congratulations on the new baby, by the way. Mena: Thank you. Yeah, she's 18 months old. She's not really new but I'm enjoying my son at home. I choose to not go back to work immediately. I wanted to really embrace the baby for years. Lucy: Well, 18 months seems to Larry and I quite young. We have children out of the house. Larry: I have grandchildren. Lucy: OK. No, I think that's just fabulous. Congratulations on that. Mena: And I'm sure how fast he grows. Lucy: It does grow very, very quickly. Six Apart is a great company. The blogging craze is a wonderfully progressive space. Tell us a few things about how you first got into technology and where you see blogging going today. Mena: OK. We really became interested in the web and it was the web when we were in college, really late years of high school through college. We both graduated in 1999 and so we had experienced to see, observe what was going on. We played around and create our own personal pages. I started to blog in April of 2001 so, right around this time, nine years ago or eight years ago. My love of technology has been very connected to my love of social communication and the way we were interacting in the web. In the early days, we were involved, we were very involved in message boards, and news board, in all boards sort of thing that were the precursors of what we are using now. So my interest in the technology seems like the board interacting. Blogging was the next behavior based on what people were doing. It was more about thinking and blogging on line but also have ownership of the blog that you are creating. That was very different from what we were doing in the message boards where we may have thoughts that you would have posted now on your blog but were all mixed together. It was something definitely I knew on the site . This is your voice and the people visiting it will get for example I have a background in design so I did the designing in all of the products and then have the background in computer engineering and that was our first sort of foray into workers at smaller company and that's where got our background. Larry: Well, that was quite an interesting lead but I have five children. Also, our blog was w3w3.blogs.com, I bet you are familiar with that one. All right, so how do you take the sleep and what is it about being an entrepreneur that got you in there and what makes you tick today? Mena: The Interesting thing about when we started. We started this all around late 2001 right around after September 11 so it's not worth it. I was only trying to get insights of people but it was so the end of the boom. It was times very similar to know. It was less opportunity even thought the economy was not bad in all sectors, it was more the technology. And so Lee and I we were so confident because a lot of companies at that time were closed. We had some money saved in the bank and said hey, "let's do this for a couple of months focusing on that and see where it goes." I think the economy went with it because nobody in our peer had jobs, let me just clarify that. So it wasn't as much as a risk as maybe doing it at the height of the boom. So we thought we could do it because we were able to. We had such low cost in terms of company. We paid for rent in our apartment and we paid or basic for us and shelter and all those things. We didn't have employee, we didn't have cost, we were using software that was downloadable, so we didn't do anything like hook or services or selling the product that was actually, something you could hold. So the costs of getting into this were incredibly low and it just seem crazy to to give it a try. Lucy: I think that's a valuable lesson for the economy that we have today. Larry: You bet, we'll highlight that. Lucy: It's the truth when things cant go much worse, take a risk. Mena: Oh, yeah and I think we've seen up and down during the years. During the second bubble when you see all these Web 2.0 companies coming out. It was all about making something big and glorious and not worrying about where blogging's coming from which is very similar to the bubbles that we experienced in those early years pre-1999 and post... 1997-1998. And it is a really augment to get that I'm going to create something and not worry about where the money comes from. We are just going to get funding, over and over if we do and I don't think that it's ever healthy and I don't think that how our company is being made. We've always wanted to have business models and do something that could be sustained. That's, I think, why we're able to be successful even in these hard times. It's not nice right now. I don't like seeing companies suffer, but it's also good to see people realizing that we do have to be sustained. We should be able to sustain our company. Everyone should be able to enter the space, but, at the same time, they should be more responsible than perhaps they have in the past. Lucy: Well, that's a great observation. It's easy to see why you're a successful entrepreneur. Larry: Yeah. Lucy: Along the way, I'm sure you must have had mentors, or people who have influenced you, in issues concerning entrepreneurship. Tell us a bit about them. Mena: Yeah, I think it goes back to what I just said. The examples that we had were people who created sustainable, long lasting, businesses. Not necessarily things that were just flashy. It's hard to think of names off the top of my head, but I think we almost could look back to people that we have known that have had brick and mortar stores or people that have had clear businesses. You look at something like Amazon where it was very clear where his money was coming from, what kind of business it was. Maybe that's less true now, but at the time, it was very straightforward. People that were passionate about their businesses. That was always our sort of mentor. Or at least the people that inspired us. It was those people that you could tell loved what they were doing and were doing it because they felt their product or their service really filled a need. And really that's who we looked up to. Names, I'm drawing a blank, but you get the idea of the mentality behind that sort of person. Larry: Mm-hmm. Lucy: Absolutely. Larry: Boy, I'll say. With all the successes and the real neat things that you've done and accomplished individually, and with your team, with your husband of course, what is the toughest thing you ever had to do in your career? Mena: The toughest? Larry: Yeah. Mena: I think the toughest, probably, there were a couple things. The first clear example would be taking our first round of funding, which we took from a small Japanese investor. To make leap from saying we are just going to be these two people who are going to do this product because of love and if we can make some money, that's good. If we don't make some money, it's OK. We can get jobs. Since then, saying not only does our company need to succeed for our benefit, but we need to make other people money. And we just can't quit, if we're tired. So the toughest thing has always been really jumping into that next step. You can only imagine, your return for a company, it's vastly different from when it's just an LLC between a husband and a wife and a corporation with outside investors. So doing that, you have to say, "I'm going to be serious about this. I'm going to make this succeed and we're in it for the long haul." Our company is almost nine years old or eight years old. That's a really long time to be in something. I think we realized it the morning we released Movable Type for the very first time that we were going to stick it out. That's a huge investment of your life. We were fairly young. I guess we were about 23 when we first started Movable Type and Six Apart and to say this is something that we are going to be doing for the next 10 years? I think we were probably, "Woo hoo." If we knew that, we would have been a little more trepidations. Every step after that you know that you are going to be in it for the long haul and that's always tough. Taking that first round of funding. Hiring our first employee. All of the sort of things that we had to do to get to the next level. Lucy: Those were interesting observations and they would form great advice for anybody who wants to be an entrepreneur. So what I've written down so far would be, "Know your business model. Be passionate. Be in it for the long haul. Look up to companies that have sustainable approaches." What other advice would you give, particularly to young people, who want to be entrepreneurs? Mena: I think a good piece of advice is always to be open to other people's ideas. It's something that has definitely come with age for us. That you think you know more things when you're younger than definitely when your older, even if you know more things when you're older. Even though we're still relatively young, you do have to be able to see that experience is one of the great things that people can give you, as advice, as well as participating. Now, it's an interesting time for me, because I'm not involved in the day to day. Ben, my husband, is at work for me, but he's also young. He's doing his job as CEO and he still puts in long start-up hours. I'm at home with our daughter, not necessarily trying to be involved through my husband, but being involved through other people. Because I want to separate the husband, wife, co-founder relationship. It's a big step for me to be at home instead of at work, because I have always been the sort of person that needs to be involved and to be making the decisions or be very instrumental in the decisions. So, stepping away and saying, "I trust these people, " having my husband there makes it easier. You have to trust the people who are in place and our CEO, Chris Alden. I trust him and I trust our VPs and our corporate development person, and all these sorts of people, as well as the day to day employees who create the product. I think an entrepreneur has to be able to say "I have these ideas. There's something about me that makes me special." To be able to create a company and to run a company, but, at the same time, if you're not willing to trust people and put people in place who you think are talented and are exceptional, then I don't think you're going to get as far as you possibly can. You see a lot of times when founders refuse to, not just step down but, just step back. It's not really an issue of not being CEO anymore, it's the issue of just being a team player. That's a problem that I think we see and that's one I think we've been able to comes to terms with as not being an issue. Lucy: And experience does teach you that. It is related to being able receive feedback, in some ways. Larry: Mm-hmm. Lucy: I think, over the years, I've come to learn, perhaps the hard way, that feedback is actually a gift. It's nothing to fight. It's something to embrace. Mena: Yeah. A big thing is also, I think, being able to share your victories. It's something that I think has come with age with me too, and being comfortable in my own skin is that you want your entire team to succeed. You don't have to be the individual player who succeeds. You'll see that the healthier the company, the more people are out there being lauded, applauded for what they're doing. Lucy: I want to return to a theme we've had in this interview so far, and that's the balance of personal and work pursuits. Interestingly enough, this morning I had to answer a question for an Ask a BC blog about being a woman and a mother and an entrepreneur. I might want to rephrase this question. We normally ask it slightly differently. What is it like to integrate being at home with your daughter and also having career pursuits? You mentioned that you're going to stay home a while. And you're really experimenting with integrating personal and business lives. I'm curious how you do that and what you see ahead. Mena: Yeah, it's a very difficult thing. It's hard because we don't want to say that it's impossible for a woman to have a career and a family. Or at least it's impossible for a woman to have a career and be the child-rearer, at least at home during the day. But it really is quite hard. You're going to cause one thing to suffer on either side. If you're putting in the hours that you feel as an entrepreneur are necessary for your company, your child isn't going to have the attention from you personally that you may want. And at the other side, if you're giving your child your hours the company's not going to get it. That's very clear. Personally, I've made the decision to be at home because of the things that I said, that babyhood and childhood go so quickly, that I should be here for her. I've thought about, do I want to take a day off of being a stay at home mom and get a nanny to watch her, and it's something that I think, as she gets older I can see doing a day a week. But with my personality, and I think it's why the company Six Apart got to where it is, is I like throwing myself into something completely. I can't just half and half it. The mentality for me has to be, what am I doing? This is my full time commitment. That said, I'm even able to do any simple work right now, because what we do is so decentralized. It's about the Internet. It's about the web. I can do a conversation with you right now while talking through Skype, rather than have to meet in person because we live in an amazing time. I think because of that, being a stay at home mom, I'm at home 24 hours a day with my daughter, but I still feel very connected to people at work. I feel connected because we have an intranet that I'm able to access. I feel connected because I read people's blogs, because I can see the news. I feel like I know what's going on. I'm lucky because of the industry I'm in. If someone's in a different position, say a lawyer who decides to stay at home, she's not going to have, necessarily, that connection. She's not going to be able to see her work happen just on the web. I've been very fortunate. I think people in my space probably have more opportunities than in more traditional jobs. But like I said, I feel like I have to put myself into something fully. I am now starting, actually starting this week, trying to do some work in Penelope's down time. Ben puts her to sleep at night, so then I can do some stuff at night. But at the same time, it's not startup hours for me. Larry: Mena, that really sounds like a fascinating plan that is about to unravel. Lucy: The very important points here...Sometimes when people think about work and personal balance they think it has to be 50/50 all day, every day, forever. Whereas, I think Mena's getting to a point where maybe for these two years I'm doing this. And then I may mix it up differently the next year, or I might mix it up in some other way as we go down the path here. Mena: It's like a startup or a company you begin. You don't know what's going to be going on in the next couple months. So you always have to be able to adapt to the new situation. Lucy: So being an entrepreneur teaches you how to be a mom! Larry: There we go! Lucy: If anything could teach you to be a mom, right? Mena: It is very similar. Larry: I just want you to know, Mena, that things do change. My wife and I, we've been in business together for 37 years and we've got five kids. We've done it. Lucy: It's really been wonderful talking to you and I just wanted to ask you if you had any other observation about entrepreneurship or Six Apart that you wanted to share with out listeners. Mina: There are so many things to say. I think for people listening, especially women, the advice is, it's going to be hard. It's going to be something that isn't all glorious. You put in hours and it's very emotional. Like we just said, the same things could be said about motherhood or about parenting. But the rewards, even if you're not wildly successful, the rewards are that you learn, and that you're able to grow and you're able to do what you do better the next time. And I think that Six Apart is doing really well. I'm amazed. I never thought, nine years ago, that I'd be able to just take off to have my child and it would be a company still. We were so much tied to it. Part of learning to be able to say this is my baby. I can just use that metaphor both ways. This is my baby. Plus the baby learns and the baby's going to grow. To be able to accept that and to understand that you're able to do something after that. It may be bigger and better. Larry: Well, Mina I want to thank you for joining us today. Mina: Thank you! Larry: There's some super, super advice here. Mina: I'm very glad to be able to get back into the swing of things. Larry: Well, see Lucy. We helped her to get back into that swing, at least into the start of the swing. Lucy: We'll help you any time, Mina! Larry: You betcha! And so all of our listeners out there know, you can download this as a podcast 24/7 at w3w3.com and ncwit.org. Is that correct? Lucy: That's correct! Larry: You bet. Pass this interview along to others that you feel would really be interested in hearing it because they can listen to it 24/7 also. Lucy Sanders, it's always great joining you. Thank you much. Lucy: Thank you Larry, and thank you Mina. Mina: Thank you. Series: Entrepreneurial HeroesInterviewee: Mena TrottInterview Summary: When Mena and Ben Trott started Six Apart in 2001, starting an Internet-based business in a stagnant, post-9/11, post-Internet-bubble economy seemed like a big gamble. But their success can be credited to some fundamental entrepreneurial tenets: Know your business model. Be passionate. Aspire to sustainability. Be open to new ideas. Release Date: March 1, 2009Interview Subject: Mena TrottInterviewer(s): Lucy Sanders, Larry NelsonDuration: 22:03

Here are the show highlights for episode #42 of the Geek News Daily podcast for December 2, 2008. * Restaurateur tracks down bill dodgers on Facebook * Gmail comes to Google Desktop * Google Earth used in Indian terrorist attacks * gOS "Cloud" instant-on OS comes to Gigabyte touchscreen netbook * Mac hits record 8.87% internet share, Windows drops below 90% * Firefox passes 20% market share while IE drops below 70% * Pownce bought by Six Apart, to be shut down in 2 weeks * People buy used computers to salvage Windows XP * Boeing airborne laser weapon fires for the first time * Nokia won't buy Yahoo! * Apple tells users they need antivirus software * Xbox 360 outsells PS3 3:1 on Black Friday Cool Link of the Day: USB floppy disk concept Bargain of the Day: Garmin Nuvi 270 for $129.99 Host: Jeremy "pcnerd37" Bray

I was really excited to do this interview with Andy Wibbels of www.andywibbels.com after I heard that he took a "day job" as Marketing Manager at Six Apart.I have known Andy for a long time and have always admired his candor, sass and brand, as well as his business sense.  Since he has done almost everything right to create an effective business, like:Create a successful blogDefine and own a particular nicheDevelop a huge mailing list of devoted followersTeam up with great partners like Darren Rowse and Michael PortWrite a successful book (Blogwild)Get mainstream press like the Wall St. Journal and USA Today I wondered what would make him decide to become an employee.I think his answers will interest you, if not challenge some of your long-held beliefs about entrepreneurship.My conclusion at the end of the conversation is that there is no work configuration that is inherently evil.  It is all about what you are looking for, what is important to you, what you are willing to trade off, and how likely you are to be successful on the "outside."As for me, I think I am, as Jim Collins once said about entrepreneurs, "constitutionally unemployable," but that doesn't mean I don't respect someone's decision to take a day job.What do you think?

You know what blogs and wikis are, and you know your YouTube from your Facebook. But do you know how to make a compelling business case for these technologies? Social media and social networking tools are poised to have as much of an impact on business as they’ve had on the way we communicate with our friends and family online. Anil Dash, a blogger since 1999 who’s helped thousands of businesses make use of social media through his work at Six Apart, shares real-world examples of how companies are using social media to build their business. Six Apart is the world’s biggest blogging company, behind such platforms as Movable Type, LiveJournal, Vox, and TypePad. And even more important than where technology has been is where it’s going: Learn about cutting-edge technological initiatives like OpenID and OpenSocial, and how these aren’t just about new ways to poke your Facebook friends - they’re business opportunities. Finally, no change this big happens without thinking about the social and political realities of the business world. What works in convincing your company, your coworkers, or your boss to spend their time and money trying new things? This session will lead a conversation to find out. Anil Dash is Chief Evangelist at Six Apart, Ltd, the world’s leading independent blogging company. Dash is a recognized expert on blogs and web technology, having founded one of the earliest and most popular weblogs on the Internet, and been named as one of MSNBC’s Best of Blogs. A frequent keynote speaker, Dash has given presentations around the world about the future of social communication online, the relationship between blogs and traditional media, and business blogging. Dash’s work has been featured in the New York Times, the Washington Post, Wired, MSNBC, CNN, ABC News, and on television, radio, print and blogs around the world. He has also had his work showcased in museums including the New Museum of Contemporary Art, and lectured at universities including UC Berkeley’s Haas School of Business, Columbia University’s School of Journalism, and New York University’s Tisch School of the Arts. Prior to joining Six Apart as its first employee, Dash worked in online communications and technology development for the publishing and music industries. When he’s not traveling, Dash lives in New York City with his favorite dog, cat, and human. Licensed as Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/).

For those who manage creative organizations, the professional kitchen can provide inspiration for how to balance important principles like consistency, creative freedom and effective problem solving, all under stressful conditions. Ryan Freitas discusses these and other parallels between the worlds of the cook and the designer. Read more about Ryan’s recent article on this subject. About Ryan Freitas Ryan is a senior interaction designer for Adaptive Path, where he has worked with clients including Oracle, Flickr, Six Apart, BitTorrent, Socialtext and Sphere. With over ten years in the field, Ryan is an experienced and opinionated advocate for user-centered design, as well as an occasional writer, speaker and design award judge. After graduating with a specialization in Human Computer Interaction at UC San Diego’s School of Cognitive Science, Ryan began his career designing and coding application interfaces for the semiconductor manufacturing industry. After transitioning to a role as a senior information architect at Sapient, he refined concepts and designed web applications and platforms for clients such as Janus and Nissan. In 2000 he moved to Tokyo, where he trained Sapient’s local creative team in interaction design practices. After returning to San Francisco in 2001, Ryan freelanced as an interaction design consultant and worked with Williams’ Sonoma and the Home Depot on their retail website and kiosk designs. He joined Adaptive Path in the spring of 2005, where he now leads product strategy and design engagements. Recently, Ryan has assumed responsibility for Adaptive Path’s New Ventures program, working with startups to bring engaging and innovative offerings to market. As a writer and conference speaker, Ryan has focused on collaboration tools, online media platforms, and community building.

Mena Trott, president and a co-founder of Six Apart who run blogging platforms Movable Type, Typepad, LiveJournal and recently launched Vox in October. Agree, disagree, like, don't like...? Feel free to leave a comment at http://mediasnackers.com/2006/12/mediasnackers-podcast58/

Sippey, vice president and general manager at Six Apart, talks about blogs and what cool new Internet tools are just around the corner.

Download the MP3. At age 28, Mena Trott is a veteran blogger and an accomplished company founder. Six Apart, the business she started four years ago with her husband Ben, now has over 100 employees. Its stable of popular blogging products (including Movable Type, TypePad and LiveJournal) are used by writers of all types -- from the most influential bloggers to children who communicate after school. She's still pushing her company forward as president and developing some very ambitious new technologies. Towards the end of the interview, VideoEgg co-founder Kevin Sladek jumps into the conversation to announce a partnership with Six Apart. Venture Voice covered the launch of VideoEgg during our DEMO coverage (show #14 and show #15). Starting today, VideoEgg and Six Apart will add video capabilities to TypePad. Show notes:

At age 28, Mena Trott is a veteran blogger and an accomplished company founder. Six Apart, the business she started four years ago with her husband Ben, now has over 100 employees. Its stable of popular blogging products (including Movable Type, TypePad and LiveJournal) are used by writers of all types — from the most influential bloggers to children who communicate after school.…

Download the MP3. You might expect that if you launched your pride and joy -- your startup company -- at a conference, it would automatically be the center of attention. At DEMO, the leading technology product launch conference, you're hatching your business alongside 64 other companies with cool new technologies. You've got to deliver an awe-inspiring six-minute presentation, schmooze for many hours on end at a packed product pavilion, and be charming during the cocktail hours to make your mark. We continue our coverage of the DEMO conference by following VideoEgg's experience while grabbing audio clips from all over. Hear from Wall Street Journal columnist Walt Mossberg, August Capital partner David Hornik, Six Apart co-founder and president Mena Trott, U3 CEO and founding team member of Palm Kate Purmal, Jingle Network senior vice president Tom Latinovich and DEMO executive producer Chris Shipley. Show notes:

Andrew Gwozdziewycz and Matt Jacobs from Six Apart talk about their recent release of Typepad Motion and Sean O'Connor gives a talk about bad Django scents.