Podcasts about drew you

In this discussion, we dissect various models of safety culture, scrutinizing how organizations perceive, measure, and manage these concepts. From artifacts like management systems to individual attitudes and behaviors, we delve into the inconsistencies and challenges of these models. We also revisit historical perspectives, such as Dov Zohar's work, to understand their influence on contemporary safety paradigms. Our conversation critically examines the missteps of industries like nuclear and aviation, which have mandated the management of ambiguous concepts without solid scientific grounding. We advocate for a shift from vague cultural mandates to actionable strategies, offering insights into enhancing clarity and effectiveness in both regulatory practices and organizational improvements. This episode aims to inspire a reevaluation of safety culture, pushing for a more scientifically grounded and practical approach to safety science. Some highlights from the paper:Safety culture as a concept is examined from scientific and pragmatic perspectives.The case is made for the removal of safety culture from the safety science lexicon.Much safety culture research is vulnerable to a fallacy of logic – we should not take a selection of parts to equal the whole.Robust research of the various individual ‘elements' of safety culture, in methodologically appropriate ways, will enhance the field of safety science and better support improvements in practice. Discussion Points:(00:00) Introduction: Rethinking Safety Culture - An overview of the conversation around safety culture and its evolving significance(07:04) Challenges in Defining Safety Culture - Exploring the difficulties in pinning down a clear and universal definition of safety culture(10:00) Safety Culture Research Models & Philosophies - different research models in safety culture, and the philosophy behind them, issues with lumping all safety-related terms together(17:00) Three Definitions of Safety Culture - Is it social, individual, or organizational? Each perspective offers a unique research approach(21:00) Perceptions of Safety Culture - The way we understand safety culture might differ greatly from someone else's interpretation(22:00) Buckets of Safety Culture: Young vs. Mature Organizations(24:23) The Importance of Specificity Over Vagueness, difference between safety climate and safety culture(29:11) The One-Question Survey: Industry Perspectives and Practical Insights - Examining the one-question survey methodology, participant responses, and the insights gathered from industry perspectives.(36:00) Safety Performance vs. Safety Culture Discussing the distinction between safety performance and the broader concept of safety culture.(39:52) Clarifying Definitions: Drew and David's Papers(40:25) Meta Takeaway: Defining 'Culture' Specifically - ask yourself what you actually mean and define it specificallyConclusions and TakeawaysThe final question: Is it time to stop talking about safety culture? The answer: "Yep."Like and follow, send us your comments and suggestions! Quotes:“The paper itself is very very stylish and self -aware and that's important not just for readability but for the state that this conversation is in...it's got all of these references that show that they're very aware of the landmines that people keep stepping on, in just even trying to write and untangle safety culture.” - Drew“When someone uses the term ‘safety culture', it's very common for them to be thinking about everything from commitment of people, compliance with procedures, level of resources, the balancing of goals, safety communication, leadership. All of these individual things just get lumped together into this term ‘safety culture.” - David“The moment you start trying to turn it into practical actions, that's when everything starts to crumble - when there aren't good, agreed definitions.”- Drew“You can't just wander into a company and say, ‘I want to study company culture.' That's like a marine biologist going into the ocean and saying, ‘I want to look at things that live in the ocean'...Be precise, be narrow, be specific about what it is that you actually want to look at.” - Drew Resources:Seeking a scientific and pragmatic approach to safety culture in the North American construction industryEp.44 What do we mean when we talk about safety culture?Dov Zohar's Published ResearchThe Safety of Work PodcastThe Safety of Work on LinkedInFeedback@safetyofwork

Drew Barrymore's very early relationship with acting and fame has shaped her into an overly honest and intense person. She invites the big celebrities onto her self-titled talk show and we all squirm while watching her interact.So why was she unemployable by 14?Listen to the full episode here: Drew "You're Too Close" BarrymoreCLICK HERE FOR LAZY GEWL GIVEAWAYS!!!! A LIST OF EVERYONE WE'VE CANCELLED ALONG THE WAY: Hugh "Made Some Terrible Decisions" GrantKaty "Feud With Taylor Swift" Perry Emily "Wait, Did You Say Divorce?" Blunt SEND US YOUR LAZY GEWL STORIES: podcast@mamamia.com.au CREDITS:Hosts: Clare and Jessie Stephens Executive Producer: Talissa Bazaz & Kimberley BraddishAudio Producer: Thom Lion Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.Support the show: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Enjoy this swap cast featuring Heidi (Unfiltered Rise), Julia (Cosmic Peach), Drew (You're Missen the Point), Brandon (Manna Daily), John (The Conspiracy Theorist Survival Guide), and myself for a roundtable discussion on original sin, pride vs doubt, inherited sin, guilt/shame/ego, pride, sexual immorality, consumerism, sexual desire, pornography, and much more. Follow all these amazing content creators! 

In this special episode of the WOW Factor, we're joined by Drew Formsma. Drew is the Creative Director at I Like Giving. At 14, Drew co-authored "Every Generosity: Becoming a Generous Family in a Selfie World'' with Brad Formsma. Since then, Drew has traveled globally, teaching the 7 Ways of Living Generously, influencing diverse groups to embrace everyday generosity.  As the Creative Director at I Like Giving, Drew focuses on fostering generosity in businesses, families, and classrooms, by aligning his  passion for encouraging positive change through generosity. This episode of the Wow Factor Podcast delves into the profound impact of generosity in both personal and professional realms. With Drew Formsma's insightful stories and experiences, listeners are encouraged to embrace generosity not only as an act but as a fundamental part of their lives. The episode highlights the transformative power of giving and its ripple effect across communities and generations. “The thread that you see throughout all of these stories is consistency and also reliant not on your own doing, but trusting God throughout the process” - Drew Formsma “We created world class films. We had I Like Being 98. It's been viewed over 50 million times today. We had I Like Adoption, which has provided thousands of adoptions across the world have happened because of that video” - Drew “You can't give what you don't have yourself. Let's face it, there's no way in the world you can be generous if your heart is in a posture of comparison” - Drew This Week on The WOW Factor: Genesis of the Wow Factor Podcast: The journey began 220 episodes ago, fueled by a need for wisdom and generosity in the business world. Drew Formsma's Return: Discussing his experiences since his last appearance and the impact of the podcast. I Like Giving's Origin: How a bike story in 2010 sparked the movement of living generously. The Global Reach of the Wow Factor: Impacting listeners worldwide, including in the Philippines. Drew's Insights on Leadership and Trusting God: The importance of consistency and reliance on faith in business. Generosity and Society: How societal changes and challenges like the pandemic influenced their approach. The Role of Generosity in Personal Growth: Drew shares personal stories and insights on self-generosity and combating comparison. Generosity in the Digital Age: Addressing the challenges and opportunities for Gen Z in a technology-driven world. Generous Students Program: A discussion about instilling gratitude and positive peer pressure in education. Generous Kids Book Club: An initiative to instill values like compassion, empathy, and generosity in children. Future Plans for 2023 and 2024: Looking ahead to new initiatives and continuing to impact through generosity Connect With Drew Formsma: LinkedIn Email Connect With I Like Giving: Website Generous Kids Book Club Connect with The WOW Factor: The WOW Factor Website Connect with Brad Formsma via email Brad Formsma on LinkedIn Brad Formsma on Instagram Brad Formsma on Facebook Brad Formsma on Twitter

In this insightful episode of The Advisory Board Podcast, we welcome Drew Chalfant, Chief Operating Officer of FranDevCo, who shares his unique journey from being a recovering franchise attorney to a seasoned franchise expert. Drew's diverse background, including a stint in a rock band and working alongside a bartender reminiscent of Tom Cruise in "Cocktail," brings a refreshing perspective to responsible franchise growth.Drew delves into the essence of the modern franchise development model, emphasizing the importance of fostering a team where staff are true participants and leaders in the franchising journey. He raises the pivotal question of what responsible growth truly entails and discusses the critical need to recognize when it's time to throttle down franchise development.A central theme of the episode revolves around the quote that guides Drew: "You spent so much time trying to figure out how you could that you never tried to figure out if you should."Drew emphasizes the need to prioritize essential aspects such as proper operations support, efficient supply chain management, real estate considerations, and digital marketing strategies to maintain a balanced growth trajectory.Drew further highlights the legal ramifications of irresponsible growth in the franchise industry, cautioning against it and shedding light on potential lawsuits, especially in franchise sales. He emphasizes that franchisees seeking recourse from franchisors are not uncommon.A key insight Drew offers is that the true heroes of the franchise story are the franchisees. To grow a franchise brand responsibly, he advises having the right capital to invest in infrastructure, addressing franchisees' needs comprehensively, and measuring the true cost of supporting franchisees as an investment in their future successDrew's mantra, "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast," underscores the importance of proving the franchise model before rapid expansion. He stresses the significance of having people with high emotional intelligence to support franchisees and recruit the right individuals to join your franchise.Finally,Drew recommends regular quarterly reviews of the organization's health, using tools like EOS/Traction to ensure alignment and progress. This episode is a valuable resource for anyone in the franchise industry, providing actionable insights and a roadmap to responsible franchise growth.Tune in to gain wisdom from Drew Chalfant on the Four Rules for Responsible Franchise Growth and discover how to navigate the dynamic world of franchising successfully.

Subconscious Realms Episode 215 - Indigenous Aboriginal Spirits PT1 - You're Missen The Point. Ladies & Gentlemen, on this Episode of Subconscious Realms we welcome the Host & Creator of - You're Missen The Point, Drew to discuss Theories on Indigenous Aboriginal Spirits!! Australian Aboriginal religion and mythology is the sacred spirituality represented in the stories performed by Aboriginal Australians within each of the language groups across Australia in their ceremonies. Aboriginal spirituality includes the Dreamtime (the Dreaming), songlines, and Aboriginal oral literature. Aboriginal spirituality often conveys descriptions of each group's local cultural landscape, adding meaning to the whole country's topography from oral history told by ancestors from some of the earliest recorded history. Most of these spiritualities belong to specific groups, but some span the whole continent in one form or another. The stories enshrined in Aboriginal mythology variously "tell significant truths within each Aboriginal group's local landscape. They effectively layer the whole of the Australian continent's topography with cultural nuance and deeper meaning, and empower selected audiences with the accumulated wisdom and knowledge of Australian Aboriginal ancestors back to time immemorial". There are 900 distinct Aboriginal groups across Australia, each distinguished by unique names usually identifying particular languages, dialects, or distinctive speech mannerisms. Each language was used for original myths, from which the distinctive words and names of individual myths derive. With so many distinct Aboriginal groups, languages, beliefs and practices, scholars cannot attempt to characterise, under a single heading, the full range and diversity of all myths being variously and continuously told, developed, elaborated, performed, and experienced by group members across the entire continent. Attempts to represent the different groupings in maps have varied widely. *Drew - You're Missen The Point* Instagram # @missen_the_point */* @conspiracy_theatre_3000 */* @thehomeroompod */* You're Missen The Point available on all Podcast platforms!! **It all makes sense now. This place is magnification, concentration, purification. Now the world goes black. I see my reflection in a pool of blood. I kiss it all goodbye" *If you like this Content & feels it Educates you & Expands your awareness, please support our efforts to inform the Ignorant Public!* *Email - subconsciousrealms@gmail.com          */* PayPal - subconsciousrealms@gmail.com          */* *Twatter* # @SubconRealms33 / Insta # @subcon_realms33 & My Hayley

Show Notes -  The Safety of Work - Ep. 109 Do safety performance indicators mean the same thing to different stakeholdersDr. Drew Rae and Dr. David Provan The abstract reads:Indicators are used by most organizations to track their safety performance. Research attention has been drawn to what makes for a good indicator (specific, proactive, etc.) and the sometimes perverse and unexpected consequences of their introduction. While previous research has demonstrated some of the complexity, uncertainties and debates that surround safety indicators in the scientific community, to date, little attention has been paid to how a safety indicator can act as a boundary object that bridges different social worlds despite being the social groups' diverse conceptualization. We examine how a safety performance indicator is interpreted and negotiated by different social groups in the context of public procurement of critical services, specifically fixed-wing ambulance services. The different uses that the procurer and service providers have for performance data are investigated, to analyze how a safety performance indicator can act as a boundary object, and with what consequences. Moving beyond the functionality of indicators to explore the meanings ascribed by different actors, allows for greater understanding of how indicators function in and between social groups and organizations, and how safety is more fundamentally conceived and enacted. In some cases, safety has become a proxy for other risks (reputation and financial). Focusing on the symbolic equivocality of outcome indicators and even more tightly defined safety performance indicators ultimately allows a richer understanding of the priorities of each actor within a supply chain and indicates that the imposition of oversimplified indicators may disrupt important work in ways that could be detrimental to safety performance. Discussion Points:What we turn into numbers in an organizationBackground of how this paper came aboutFour main groups - procurement, incoming operator, outgoing operator, pilotsAvailability is key for air ambulancesIncentivizing availabilityOutgoing operators/providers feel they lost the contract unfairlyThe point of view of the incoming operators/providers Military pilots fill in between providersUsing numbers to show how good/bad the service isPilots - caught in the middleContracts always require a trade-offBoundary objects- what does availability mean to different people?Maximizing core deliverables safelyProblems with measuring availabilityPressure within the systemPutting a number on performance Takeaways:Choice of a certain metric that isn't what you need leads to perverse behaviorPlacing indicators on things can make other things invisibleFinancial penalties tied to indicators can be counteractiveThe answer to our episode's question – Yes, metrics on the boundaries can communicate in different directions Quotes:“The way in which we turn things into numbers reveals a lot about the logic that is driving the way that we act and give meaning to our actions.” - Drew“You've got these different measures of the service that are vastly different, depending on what you're counting, and what you're looking for..” - David“The paper never draws a final conclusion - was the service good, was the service bad?” - Drew“The pilots are always in this sort of weird, negotiated situation, where ‘doing the right thing' could be in either direction.” - Drew“If someone's promising something better, bigger, faster and cheaper, make sure you take the effort to understand how that company is going to do that….” - David  Resources:Link to the Paper The Safety of Work PodcastThe Safety of Work on LinkedInFeedback@safetyofwork

Drew Neisser is the Founder of Renegade and CMO Huddles, host of the CMO Podcast, and Author of the new book Renegade Marketing: 12 Steps to Building Unbeatable B2B Brands. Marketing has become more complicated without necessarily becoming more effective.  Today, Drew talks about the tough environment of CMOs and delves into why a single clear and consistent message is far more likely to get the sale over a matrixed approach. He also discusses how and why clearing away the clutter of your messaging makes a world of difference for your buyer. HIGHLIGHTS Rising from setbacks: Drew enters content creation as he reinvents his business CMOs clear away the clutter and today work closely with the CRO Marketing has become way more complicated but rarely more effective An 8-word purpose-driven story statement is your North Star QUOTES A CMO focuses the organization's product and messaging - Drew: "A great CMO, who is a leader, recognizes the sort of emotional impact of choice of words and visuals and design and will use that to inform communications across the organization, internally and externally. And they often will be the only one in the organization who won't just say ‘Well, let's just tell them it's cheaper, faster, and better', right? They might be the only one in the organization that will say, ‘You know what? I know we have 15 features but I can only comprehend 1 big one and 3 subsets of that. They're the only ones who can bring focus to this thing.'" Your brand must have a single message in 8 words or less - Drew: "You have to have a big idea to begin with. And if you don't have a big idea and you don't have what we call purpose-driven story statement or something that encapsulates the, I'm going to call it the sort of the purpose of the brand and a promise of the brand all put together magically in 8 words or less, if you don't do that, then there is no hope that the rest of the stuff is going to hang together." A single unified message produces higher rates of sales success Drew: "Brands that put 1 message in the marketplace can make it easier for the customer to buy them based on 1 major promise. I have a higher success rate than ones that offer 25 things." Find out more about Drew and get his book in the links below: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drewneisser/ Website: https://renegade.com/ Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Renegade-Marketing-Building-Unbeatable-Brands/dp/173721251X More on Andy: Connect on LinkedIn Get Andy's new book "Sell Without Selling Out" on Amazon Learn more at AndyPaul.com Sponsored by: Revenue.io | Unlock exponential growth with an AI-powered RevOps platform | Revenue.io Scratchpad | The fastest way to update Salesforce, take sales notes, and stay on top of to-dos | Scratchpad.com Blueboard | World's leading experiential rewards & recognition platform | Blueboard.com Explore the Revenue.io Podcast Universe: Sales Enablement Podcast RevOps Podcast Selling with Purpose Podcast

For Listener Tales 45 we are joined by a special, rather good looking guest, you know him…. You love him… its DREW :) You weirdos also sent us some seriously hilarious and intense tales!!! There's cops sharing too much information after bursting into middle school dances, hot debates over the name Doll(e)y Madison, hotboxing realness and a Berenstein Bears life saving connection. If you have a Listener Tale that you'd like us to read, please send it to Morbidpodcast@gmail.com with “Listener Tale” somewhere in the subject line :)See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today we got a little punchy and maybe talked more about this weekend's release of Top Gun: Maverick than we did Blue Crush. But alas, we did get around to chatting about the 2002 John Stockwell film. He is responsible for our Top Gun detour as he portrayed Cougar in the original. Blue Crush stars Kate Bosworth, Michelle Rodriguez, Matthew Davis, San Lake and Faizon Love. This film is about a surfer girl who had a bad surfing incident and is preparing for a big competition when she finds herself falling for a football player.  Drew: You really think you can surf it for real out there? Anne Marie: Well, Drew, I dated you, I guess I can do anything. Some of our favorite parts of this movie are: The real injured surfer who the director kept in the film Michelle Rodriguez who did all her own jet ski stunts The over effected opening highlighting her surfing accident Anne Marie's last name is “Chadwick” a nod to Elvis' character in Blue Hawaii which kicked off our month of Hawaiian films The filmic suggestion when the audience sees legs dangling in the water of surfers sitting on their boards Hearing “Cruel Summer” from Bananarama again Special thanks to our editor Geoff Vrijmoet for this episode and Melissa Villagrana for helping out with our social media posts. Next week's film will be: Cloudburst (2011) available on Amazon Prime Subscribe, Rate & Share Your Favorite Episodes! Thanks for tuning into today's episode of Dodge Movie Podcast with your host, Mike and Christi Dodge. If you enjoyed this episode, please head over to Apple Podcasts to subscribe and leave a rating and review.

Welcome to the Off the Shelf Halloween Special! You can follow me on Instagram here: Phoebe @ Pause Books HQ (@pausebooks) You can follow me on Twitter: Phoebe @ Pause Books HQ (@PauseBooks) My first guest this week is Drew: You can follow him on Instagram here: Drew (@drewreadsintherain) My second guest this week is Jimmy: You can follow him on Instagram here: Jimbeaux (@jimmy_eat_book)

This week we interview Drew Linsalata, an amazing friend who has written an amazing book called, “Seven Percent Slower”  Click the link below to hear more about his book! https://theanxioustruth.com/seven-percent-slower/ Kimberley: Welcome, everybody. This episode is for you, the listener, but it's actually for me, the podcaster, more than anything. Today, we have the amazing Drew Linsalata. I've talked about Drew before. We've done giveaways. We've done a bunch of stuff together on social media. I am a massive Drew fan. So, thank you, Drew, for being here today. Drew: Oh, you're so sweet. Thank you, Kim. It's my pleasure to be here. Kimberley: Okay. So, you, you are amazing, and I would love if you would share in a minute to people a little bit about your lived experience with anxiety. Drew is just the coolest human being on the planet. So, I'm so excited to share with everybody you, because I think everybody needs Drew in their life. Drew: Wow. Kimberley: But in addition to that, we are today going to talk about something. I'm actually going to try and drop down into my own vulnerability, and not just be the host, but also be the listener today because you are talking about one particular topic that I need to work on. So, first of all, tell me a little bit about your background, your story, and we'll go from there. Drew: Sure. So, unfortunately, I lived in experience with panic disorder, agoraphobia, and intrusive thoughts and things of that nature, clinical depression, on and off, from the time I was 19 years old – 1986 all the way to around 2008, in varying degrees. So, it was a very long time. I was in and out of those problems. They came, they went. I did all the wrong things for a lot of time, trying to fix those problems, even though I knew what the right things were, because I've always been a bit of a behaviorism and cognition geek. And it took me a long time to come around to actually solving those problems. I did the medication thing that didn't work out for me. And then I really just took the time to learn what I needed to do behaviorally, cognitively, using those evidence-based things that I know you talk about all the time. And I just used them on myself and I learned as much as I could from very smart people like you. And I went and did the work and managed to get myself through the recovery from panic disorder and agoraphobia and depression and all of those things. And along the way, the things that I learned, I just started sharing with other people, which is nothing that I invented. I never claimed that I invented any of this stuff. I just became a really good messenger, I guess, in terms of explaining. Well, I learned this and then I used it this way. And that led to just helping people online back in 2008, 2009 as I was going through it. And that led to continuing to do it. And that led to starting my own podcast back in 2014, like talking to nobody with a $4 app on my phone. But it just seemed like the right thing to do to try and pay the help forward, because I had a lot of supportive people who rallied around me. And that just one thing led to another. And here we are, and the podcast is just kept going and it has led to writing two books about this stuff. One is my story, and one is the recovery guide that I wrote. And here I am, still educating about this topic and advocating and supporting where I can and just trying to contribute to the community because I felt like the community, in its form that it was in 10, 15 years ago, was so helpful to me. And I just feel like I want to give as much of that back as I can. So, yeah. Kimberley: So you've written-- I'm giggling. So, for everyone listening, if you hear me giggling, it's not because it's particularly funny. It's just so ironic to me. You wrote a book called Seven Percent Slower. Drew: Yes. Kimberley: Now I probably tell my clients every single day they need to slow down. I have done a podcast on slowing down, but it is probably the safety behavior I fall into the most. And I don't do a ton of safety behaviors anymore that this one is just so ingrained in me. So, I read your book. Thank you so much. Not only is it an amazing read, but you're hilarious. I was texting Drew yesterday, just cracking out at some of the things that he says because it's my type of humor. I just love it. So, can you share with me why this one topic? Of all the things you could have written, why is this one topic? Why was it so important to you and why is it so important? Drew: It's a good question. Up until three, four months ago. I would have not thought that I would write this book. There was no plan to write a book about learning to slow down. But what I discovered was, Seven Percent Slower is the thing that I just came up with as a little silly mental device for me when I was struggling in a big way. I knew that part of what would happen when I would get really anxious and I would begin to panic, and I would just associate that with all those nasty things, I would start just really speed up. I would rush around like crazy. And I knew I was doing that, and I knew that wasn't helping me, but I was having a hard time catching it. And one of the things that my therapist at the time, she was like, “Really, you got to start to learn to slow down.” So she gave me that good advice. Again, I didn't invent any of this. And I used to have to remind myself, I would literally walk around trying to remind myself like, “Slow down, moron. Slow down.” I would be talking to myself. The no self-compassion there, like, “Slow down.” And I was trying and trying and trying. And then for some reason, because I'm a fan of the absurd, the idea of trying to go 7% slower was born in like 2007 in my stupid brain. And it was just easy to remember, “Oh yeah, just go 7% slower. And it was just a little mental trick not to actually go 7% slower. Just remind me again to slow down. And it proved to be really helpful to me like that stuck in my head because it's silly. It's just a silly, arbitrary number. And I forgot all about it. I use it. I still use it to this day, but not really thinking of it consciously. And I have to tell so many people in the community surrounding my podcasts and my books that slow down. One of the things to do slow down – I started telling people, “Well, just try going 7% slower.” It came back to the surface again. And the response that I got from it was astounding, like, “Oh, that's so great. Yes, I'm using it. I'm doing the 7% slower thing and it's really helping me.” And I'm like, “Oh, there's a book. I need to write this.” And that's how I dragged it back up from 10, 15 years ago. And I said, “I should probably write about this and tell people what it is.” Kimberley: So, tell me how you implemented it in-- you've talked and I've heard you talk about exposures and some of the experiences you did. Can you just give me upfront for people who, first of all, want to hear about your story, what were some of the exposures you engaged in and how did slowing down impact it, both for how did it make it easier and how did it also make it more difficult? What was your experience? Drew: So I'll give you a typical morning for me. My biggest issue was-- again, my official diagnosis would have been panic disorder with agoraphobia, right? So I had a real problem leaving the house or being alone by myself or going any appreciable distance from the house. And so, a typical exposure for me, a typical morning for me when I decided I really have to fix this as I would get up, the minute I open my eyes, I put my feet on the floor, I would already be in a state of very heightened state of arousal and anxiety at that point because I knew it was coming. I was going to get dressed. I was going to get ready. I was going to hurl my butt out the door and start driving, which is the thing I was terrified to do. So, I did that every day, every single day. And right away, I learned within the first week or so like, okay, I get the principle of this, but I'm walking out the door in a blind panic. So I need to dial it back and start to work on just preparing to walk out the door first. So, I need to really acclimate to this first. And that's when I really started using the “Slow down, slow down, slow down.” So, I would get up and I would be trying to get ready and rush around and drink water and do everything I had to do to get out the door like I was on fire and it was crazy. And I started to slow down that way. And it really was a huge help, but you're right, it also made it worse because-- and this is so funny because it came up in a live I did the other day on Instagram with Jen Wolkin. She talks about mindful toothbrushing. And that is really-- the act of brushing my teeth in the morning is where Seven Percent Slower really began to shine. I wrote about it in my first book. The first thing I did before I learned to drive again was to learn to brush my teeth slowly and mindfully while I was in a complete state of panic. Yes. And just the act of slowing everything down, all I have to do is take the cap off the toothpaste. All I have to do is put the paste on the brush. All I have to do is put the cap back on. All I have to do is pick up the toothbrush. I literally would have to break down my getting-ready routine into the tiniest, little tasks and just focus on each one of those and literally act as if I was in slow motion. So, I wrote in Seven Percent Slower that one of the ways I learned to actually do that was to exaggerate it in a huge way. To me, it felt like it was brushing my teeth in slow motion. I probably was, but it really helped because it was the opposite action. So, my amygdala is screaming, “Go fast, go fast, go fast.” And I'm like, “No, no, no, I'm going to go slower and slower and slower.” And it did change my state over time. And I was able to go out and start my drive and my exposure and panic all over again. But at least I was leaving the house at a level 5 instead of a level 8. But it did make it harder because when I slowed down, I would just feel all of the things. I just have to let them come and let them come. You know the deal, and your listeners, I'm sure, know the deal. So, it was tough, but it was also tremendously helpful to me. Slowing down was one of the biggest things that changed my situation, for sure. Kimberley: Yeah. And the reason I think this is so important, this one thing and I love that you're just looking at this one thing, is I think in that moment, for the listeners, we're constantly talking about how to reduce mental compulsion. And I think the slowing down helps with that too, right? I think about there's exposure, but there's also the time before the exposure and after the exposure where you have to practice not doing the compulsion. And if you're rushing, your brain's rushing and everything. And so, I love that you're even talking about before doing the exposure, you had to slow down. Drew: Yeah. I mean really, before the exposure was exposure itself, there's no doubt about that. And I had to come to the realization that like, well, the exposure right now isn't the driving. The exposure is literally putting my shoes on right now while I panic, putting on my coat while I panic, brushing my teeth while I panic. And in Seven Percent Slower, I wrote about accidental emergency multitasking, which that's the thing that I forgot. We were talking before we went in there. I forgot I wrote that. And I'm going through my editor's notes, and I'm like, “I wrote that, how about that?” But that's true because when you-- Kimberley: Good for me. Drew: Yeah, right. Good for me. go through. So, I remember really thinking that, like when you're in that crazy terrified state, I was trying to solve every problem at once. So, there was a lot of mental compulsion in there. I was trying to go through the drive in my head. I was trying to anticipate each turn. I was trying to beat back the panic before it even happened in my head. I was thinking about yesterday's drive and how difficult that was. And slowing down, meaning it put things-- it made me focus on what was going on right now. So, it was also accidental or backdoor water down sort of ghetto mindfulness practice. I'll take it though because it worked. It put me in the present moment and it took me out of emergency accidental multitasking mentally and physically. Kimberley: I think it's pure mindfulness, right? Drew: Oh, it definitely was. And there was no-- I mean, I wrote about this in the book too. I'm not trying to read the whole book to you guys, but yes, it is part of it. There's a whole chapter called Is This Mindfulness: Do I Need to Meditate to Slow Down. It's literally one of the chapters. And well, it kind of is. If you start to learn to go slower, you will accidentally become more mindful without having to go through all the overwhelming things that sometimes people feel mindfulness is. “I have to become grateful and of the present moment, and I have to learn to appreciate the now.” No, you just have to slow down, and you'll automatically mechanically become more mindful. The rest of the stuff is window dressing. It doesn't matter. I wasn't grateful for brushing my teeth at all, but I was mindful of it, and it got me out of those compulsions in that crazy, anticipatory anxiety cycle. Let me do the exposures more effectively. Kimberley: Yeah. So, one of the things I love that you did-- and I actually did the homework. You'll be so proud of me. Drew: You did the homework. Did you use index cards? Kimberley: Huh? Drew: Did you actually use index cards, like I wrote about? I'm so old. Kimberley: I did. Usually, when I read a book, I do not follow their instructions because I don't like to follow instructions. It's not my style. Drew: I feel you. Kimberley: My husband always cringes when I go to make an IKEA piece of furniture because I am bringing out those instructions. Drew: It's going to be an extra draw leftover. We just know it. Kimberley: Oh, I could show you some photos. You would love, I tell you. But I did your homework. And this is what I thought was really interesting. So, I want to walk through. I'm going to try to be vulnerable here. I have noticed in the last week, since returning back from vacation, that my hyper-vigilance is going up a lot. I was noticing my anxiety wasn't so high, but I was engaging in a hyper-vigilant behavior. I think mostly because I'm now thinking about COVID, how to protect my children, and all the things. When we were away, we were far, far away from anybody. We didn't see anybody. So, I sat down, and I wrote the things that I do that I need to slow down at, right? And I'm just sharing it because I do the homework. I'm so proud of myself. Drew: I'm proud of you too. Kimberley: So number one is in the morning, I wake up and I sit up and I just go. I don't ease into the day. And then you talk in the book about how speed is like an escape response, right? You don't want to be in your discomfort. So, I thought that was interesting. These are ways that I've caught myself, right? So I jumped out fast. Like how can I not feel my discomfort about the day? Another one is I rushed during emails. And the big one, which I'm not happy about, is I multitask. Now I want to get your opinion on this as my dear friend, excuse me. Most people are probably multitasking, but why would multitasking be bad for anxiety? Drew: Okay. So, I will preface this by saying, I used to think that my ability-- and I will multitask like a mofo. I'm good at it. I know that cognitive scientists will tell me that I'm not because there's no such thing. We're literally tearing down our cognitive models and building new ones every time we switch from test to test. I understand all of that. But I will tell you that I'm good at it anyway. I'm going to stick with my guns, right? So, I wore it like a badge of honor. And when I have to, I can still do it. However, it absolutely fueled my anxiety state. There's no doubt about that because there's a sense of urgency that comes with multitasking. There really is. You are not present in anything when you're trying to do everything. So, that really in the end is that. And multitasking is not just physical. It's also mental. So, I'm answering an email while I'm thinking about the next email. I see your face. You know what I'm talking about. You've been there, right? You were probably there today. Kimberley: Like I said to you, I'm so grateful that you wrote this because it's so important. It's so important for the quality of our life. Last week I was exhausted at the end of the week and it's because I was rushing. I just know that's why. That's why I'm such a huge fan of what you're writing. Drew: As I was writing, things came out because I'll be honest with you, when I thought of this as my own little mental device many, many years ago, I didn't flesh it out. I just did it. You know how it goes. I didn't invent a thing. But as I was writing about it, I had to think. And this speed to me looks like both an escape-- it's both a fear response, sort of involuntary, and a safety behavior at the same time, like it keeps us from feeling the feels, right? So, yes. And I think the other thing that multitasking does is it makes us sort of-- we can put our attention to the places that we want it to be at because they're the easier things, even practically, like, I don't really want to answer this email because this is a hard email. So, I'll skip that one, mark it unread, and then go back to this one and I'll just keep marking that. You know what I mean? So, it keeps-- Kimberley: You just described my whole week last week. Drew: I hear you. The day I got to inbox 0, which was years ago – by the way, I'm not there anymore. Not even close – I was on top of the world. I was convinced like I'm now qualified to basically run the UN if I need to, because I'm at inbox 0. But I'm very guilty of that stuff where I was for a long time. I still fall into the habit. There's no doubt about that. But yes, when I find my-- sometimes I do it intentionally because I need to, and there's a time and a place for it. But when I find that I'm feeling extra stress, because one thing that I noticed about this book is that it doesn't just apply to anxiety and anxiety disorders, but it applies to stress management in general, because I still use seven percent slower, I just didn't remember that I was. And when I find that I'm feeling the effects of the stress, much of which I create myself by taking on so much, slowing down and stopping the multitasking, like close all the apps, run one app at a time, do one thing at a time, it really brings that down. It doesn't solve all my problems, but it keeps me from being overwhelmed by the physical responses that come with stress. Why am I holding my breath? Why does my neck hurt? Well, I know why. Because I'm stressed, and I got to back off. It helps. It really does help to slow down. Kimberley: It does. The final one that I listed, and I really want you to talk more on, is just a general sense of worrying, right? I mean, I think you can actually give me your opinion on this, but sometimes we do have to solve problems, right? We have to make decisions. This was a big one for us last week, is deciding whether we wanted to put our kids back in school or homeschool them, back and forth. Sometimes you do have to make those decisions, but there is a degree of just general worrying that happens. And then you can start to worry on speed at the highest speed ever. So, did you have to apply this to the speed in which you worried or try to solve problems? You're talking about physically slowing down, but did you also apply it to mentally slowing down, or they go hand in hand? Drew: That's a really good question actually. And if I think about it, the way it worked for me personally, my personal experience with this particular method or whatever you want to call it, is that it was first the physical slowing down. But then I discovered that that started to spill over. So, when I was physically going slower and being more mindful and deliberate in my behavior, it became a little easier for me to recognize that I am literally thinking about 17 problems at one time right now. I can't solve them all at one time. Some of them I can't solve at all. Kimberley: We could probably resolve or solve them already. Drew: Exactly. And it really helped me clarify that habit that I have. I'm just going to think, think, think, think, think. I'm thinking all the time. I think anyway, but I was thinking very maladaptively in those days in a big way. I was a prisoner to my thoughts and the thinking process. And it really helped me break that cycle. It's always important to me to say, slowing down and going 7% slower is not a cure for all of this or anything like that. It's not magic. It was just one part of the puzzle. It turned out to be a big part of the puzzle for me because it unlocked a lot of things, but yeah, it did slow down my mental behavior too, my ruminating, my worry, my thinking. Kimberley: Right. Yeah. I keep saying, I'm such a fan of these. And I think for me, I mean, you guys know I'm very well recovered, right? I'm mostly very healthy, mentally healthy. You might question me now that I've totally got that upside down. But I consider myself to be pretty level. What was interesting for me is, that for me is usually the first sign that you're starting to go into relapse, right? When you start to speed up. So, that's why I thought last week, I was like, the gods have all the stars aligned because I've come out of this very beautiful, long vacation where I'm managing my stress and everything. And the first thing my brain did when it got home was speed up. And if I hadn't caught it being hypervigilant, I think I would have gotten snowballed, right? And I think it's a great way, a tool to keep an eye out for your relapse as well. Drew: Yeah. I mean, actually, these are hard things to catch, don't get me wrong, because so much of it is automatic or it's a little bit beyond. The initial speeding up is beyond our control. My assertion in the book is initially, you will probably automatically speed up, but you can catch that and then change it. It takes work. And I really talked about like-- in fact, today's Instagram post is all about that really. Not that anybody has seen it because it's a podcast for the future, but it was about that. Like, “Hey, look at these. Here's 10 signs.” I did a 10 things posts. Now I'm disgusted with myself now that I think about it, but I have a list with 10 things like here is-- I think there's actually 11, to be honest with you. But here's a thing, if you find yourself doing this, if you're stumbling over your words, if you're shaking, if you're dropping things, when you're walking, if your stride length has shortened, because that's what I would do. I have reasonably long legs, but I'd be taking these little tiny penguin steps because I was rushing like crazy, like running. So, there's a bunch of practical things that you can really look at. This is what my rushing habit looks like. So I can be aware of those things and catch them and then start to slow down. Kimberley: Right. And that was what you said in the book. Write them down, identify the behaviors in which you're doing, which I thought was brilliant. Drew: Thank you. Kimberley: Yeah. Okay. I wanted to touch on, because I loved how you really talked about that, the side effect of slowing down is that you have to feel uncomfortable. Bummer, you totally ruined it. Drew: I did. What a buzzkill. Kimberley: We're going so good. Drew: Yeah. It's true. I think that was one of the chapters. I specifically wrote an entire chapter about why you probably don't want to slow down, right? Kimberley: Exactly. Drew: One of the reasons is that we view rushing around as some sort of badge of honor and achievement. If you run around like a speed demon, it must mean that you're busy and achieving things, which is not true. But also, if you slow down, you feel all the feels, and we hate that. And I'll use the word “we.” Humans are not really-- we're designed to be creatures of comfort. We don't want to feel crappy stuff. But you know that. I'm not telling anybody anything they already know. If they're listening to Your Anxiety Toolkit, you already know this, but you have to move through the crappy stuff to get past the crappy stuff. And slowing down is a good way to allow yourself to do that. Kimberley: Yeah, I agree. Drew: Yeah. Accidental happy side effect. Kimberley: I love that you brought this up. So, let's go through like, okay, slowing down. You can even maybe share your own experience. Slowing down, for me, I think it's not that I have to feel physically uncomfortable as much as I have to have a lot of uncertainty, right? I have to be uncertain, which is typically, at the end of the day, still just sensation and experience. For you in that, when you were practicing this during your exposures, what did you have to feel when you slowed down? Drew: So for me, when I would slow down, I would feel the physical sensations of panic. The one sensation that never leaves me – it's the memory of a sensation. It's not that I feel it. I rarely feel it anymore – was the feeling of my heart thudding in my back. You feel like all my chest was pounding, but it would feel like it was beating so heavily when I was in a panic that I could feel it almost beating along my spine. It was a really uncomfortable sensation. And traditionally, when I would feel that, I would do everything I could to try to not feel that – wiggle around, change position, lay down, stand up – try anything that I could to not feel that. One of the key things-- and I felt all the physical sensations, but that one sticks in my memory was when I started to slow down, I had no choice but to let my heart pound lead against my spine, and it was so uncomfortable. And I remember really just having to reason with myself as best I could like, “Just get through it for another 10 seconds. Just give it another 10 seconds. Just give it another 30 seconds.” And then it was just, “Just give it another minute.” And then it was like, “Oh, this isn't so bad.” So, it was a gradual habituation to that where I stopped being afraid of it. And slowing down meant I had to feel that. There was no more shield against feeling it. If I'm going to stand in the bathroom and slowly brush my teeth, I'm going to feel that. But I also heard the thoughts very loudly when I slowed down. And the thoughts would be panic-type thoughts, like, oh my God, what if it's not anxiety this time? What if I'm having a heart attack? What if this is a stroke? It does happen to people. Even though I'm only 30 years old or whatever it was at the time, this can happen. What if, what if, what if? Those thoughts were already loud. And when I slowed down, I essentially turned down all the other sounds. So those thoughts were really, really, really loud. And I would literally have to practice. It forced me to practice like that could be, but it's not likely. I would have to say that all the time. “That could be, but it's not likely. It could be, but it's not likely.” Yeah. And it just forced me to practice. So, I would feel the physical sensations and hear my thoughts so much louder. Hated it. Kimberley: Right. Yeah. I'm so glad that you mentioned that. I mean, I can only imagine too. When we have those symptoms that aren't textbook, like you feel your heart in your back, it's hard to just let that be there, right? You and I have joked a lot, the old Instagram posts about like, these are the 12 ways to feel a panic attack. But when you don't have something on that list and when you have something additional, that's scary, right? “Oh, crap. I've got six things that aren't even on that list. What does that mean?” Drew: Here's an interesting thing that you just made me think of now. The other thing that slowing down accomplished, and this was a happy accident also, is I like to look at it as imagine anxiety as a room. So, when your lizard brain, when your amygdala is in charge, it fills the entire room, so prefrontal cortex stuff has no room. It's pressed against the walls. It's being pushed out the door. There's no reasoning at all. When I slowed down, I actually made a little bit of room for prefrontal cortex to chime in. Winston and Seif, they will talk about wise mind in their writing. Wise mind had a chance to chime in where I was able to say, “Okay, Drew, yes, this isn't on the list of the usual stuff, but you have felt things like this 10,000 times. And all indicators are: you're healthy as a horse, you're in great shape. It's okay.” And it allowed me to tolerate that uncertainty a lot more because I was able to reason a little bit more. I was unable to talk myself off the ledge, but I was able to insert just enough reasoning because it gave me a little bit of room to work in. That helped also. I was able to actually do that, whereas before I was just frantic. That was like, “You're okay. You're okay. It's okay. It's nothing, it's nothing.” But your amygdala doesn't care. It doesn't believe you. But in that case, I was able to actually say, “Okay, hang on. I felt this zillion times before. This is likely nothing. Okay, I can go with that. I'm going to roll the dice on that. I'm good with it.” Kimberley: Right. You can see the trends that have been playing instead of thinking like it's the first time it's ever happened, even though it's happened a million times. Drew: Yeah. So, practicing slowing down gave me a little bit of space for that stuff to get a little foothold, a little handhold, and then it grew. Kimberley: Yeah. So it's interesting because I'll share with you, a big part of my recovery has been considered what I have been calling a walking meditation. So, I did a lot of meditation training in the latter stage of my recovery. And I don't love to sit and meditate because it's uncomfortable, right? But what I love to do is this end practice of walking meditation. And so, I've often called friends and said to them, this is an accountability call. I have to do a walking meditation all day. And then when you're writing this, I'm like, “That's what I was doing. I was slowing down.” And I've been just calling it something different. So, I thought that that was really fascinating because in the Zen practice, you do a lot of walking meditation, right? Being aware slowly as you engage in the day. Drew: Which is something that I think a lot of people have a hard time putting their brain around. In the beginning, I think it's hard to do that – being mindful in motion. So, to me, meditation, I always say mindfulness to me is like meditation in motion. I don't know if that makes any sense, but that's-- Kimberley: It is what it is. Drew: Okay. So, that's the way I've always thought of it for myself. Well, firstly, I learned to meditate and then I put it in motion so that I can be meditative even in a meeting or on a phone call or driving my car. That's possible, but that's the thing you have to learn. But that's part of slowing down also. When you do your walking meditation, you're intentionally slowing down. Kimberley: Yeah. I would even invite the listeners to think about when are you the most calm or coping the best is when you're actually slowed down. For me, it's when I'm with a client. When I'm with a client, I can't multitask. I am so with them, and it's their pace, which is not my pace. I can't speak at a rapid, two times speed formula in session. And that's where I feel the most connected. And that's where I feel just wonderful. And there it is right there. It's forcing me to slow down. So, I think it's helpful also to look at where are you actually being slipped, where are you forced to slow down, and how are you coping in those situations. Drew: Yeah. When you have no choice, you can actually try and remember, well, what does it look like for you? It'd be like, what does it look like when I'm in session? I just have to do that. When you're not sure, well, let me just go to what that feeling is. And those things to me also-- the last chapter of the book is called Beyond Seven Percent Slower because to me, that skill that I developed accidentally years ago serves me well now. So, one of the things in business that I get told all the time and people always say, the building could be on fire, and you're just-- I mean, I was a dude that couldn't leave his bathroom. I was so panicked and so agoraphobic, and they're like, “No problem. You do this, you get a bucket, we'll put it out. Everything's going to be cool.” That's the slowing down. And when you learn to do that, and you cultivate that skill, not only can it help you in your recovery journey, but it stays with you for a long time and it brings out the superpowers. We sometimes think that rushing and multitasking is the superpower – not really. Slowing down and letting each of your individual strengths and skills shine through because they can because you've given them space, that's where your real superpowers come out. That's probably where you are the most effective as a clinician is when you slow down and you're in that session. Kimberley: Or as a parent or as a wife or as a human, everything, right? Drew: Yeah. So, not to get all preachy about it, but I think it goes well beyond just the anxiety and stress thing. It's a good life skill in general. Kimberley: 100%. Okay. I have one more question. Drew: Sure. Kimberley: I've purposely not tried to go down the tips and tools because I just want people to actually buy the book and just go through it, like I did writing it down and really addressing it. But you talk about one thing that I wanted to talk about, which is the 92-second timer. Drew: Okay. I have to search through my Ulysses app, where did I write about 90 seconds. Kimberley: See, we just did this today. Let me tell you what I found was so helpful, is you said you set a reminder every 90 seconds to slow down. Drew: Yes. Kimberley: So, tell me, how important is that? Does it have to be 90 seconds? Was that a big piece of you retraining your brain? What did that look like? Drew: Again, that was my own-- yeah, that's right. I did do that, and I did write about it. So, I know we talked about it a little bit. That's fine. What I did was, I had an original iPhone, like OG iPhone, and I had this stupid timer. And I had this timer in there for 90 seconds. I use 90 seconds. I don't care what you use. I don't think the number is magical in any way. But when I was getting into that panic state and when I started doing my morning routine to prepare to do my driving exposures, I would just set the timer and it would repeat every 90 seconds. And that silly little timer would bring me back to slow down, slow down, slow down. It was just a cue. That's all. It was a silly little mental thing. Do I think it's critical for people? Some people might not need it. But if you do need it, I don't see that there's any crime in using it. And you could do it every 30 seconds, 60 seconds, every two minutes. It doesn't matter. It was nothing more than an auditory cue to remind me to slow down, slow down, slow down, slow down. Kimberley: The reason I bring it up is that has been crucial for me in all of my recovery, no matter what it is, is reminders. I think that it's easy to go on into autopilot. And I love that you mentioned that because I am a sticky note fan. I talk about it in my book. I love reminders. That's a crucial part of my existence. So, I just love that you brought that up because I think that we always have sticky notes like don't forget to get eggs and you've got to make a phone call. And this is the opposite of that, which is like, “Slowing down, hun. Bring it down a notch.” Drew: Kind of, because our reminders are usually to remind us to do things faster, now, don't forget them, get them done. Whereas-- Kimberley: Urgent, urgent. Drew: Yes, urgent, urgent. One of the funny things about this, the thing was, I don't have my phone with me here, but the sound was that stupid submarine alarm, like errr, errr, errr, which you would think I would have made a silly little, I don't know, like chimey, gentle thing. But I intentionally did the errr, errr because it was jarring. I needed it to jar me. And so, yeah, it was weird. I did not have to use the 90-second timer for months and months on end. It was in the beginning. It became very helpful to me. And then I spread the timer out to two minutes and then five minutes, and then we just didn't have to use the timer anymore. So, it was adaptive. I don't want anybody to think like I live my life based on this silly timer going off all the time. That's not the way it works. Kimberley: And I get that. I think that that's the cool piece here to the story you're sharing. And I would make this a big piece of what I want everyone to take away, which is, like anything, this sucks to start. It sounds like for you and it has been for me, although, like I'm saying, I'm owning up to falling off the wagon here a little, which I'm fine with. It can be a 90-second timer to start. But then that's where that muscle gets strong. It sounds like that for you, it's pretty strong now. Drew: Oh, it's really strong. It's automatic now. Yeah. It's almost automatic, but again, that's a lot of practice and repetition and really taking this to heart. It's not an overnight thing. And I still make mistakes. I just catch them faster now. Now, there's zillion things to do to get ready to launch this book. Yesterday, I fell absolutely into the trap. Totally did. Around three o'clock yesterday, I felt terrible. I was just agitated and all the stress stuff and anxiety stuff was like, oh, wait a minute here. So, I can see at least that that's the benefit of it. It's taught me to see what I'm doing and then correct it when I need to. Kimberley: Yeah. And it's great to have that. You're modeling that beautifully, right? That it's not going to always be the hardest thing. It's like something that you can learn to strengthen, which I really appreciate. Okay, tell us about where we can get this amazing book. Drew: Well, I think I made it pretty easy being a techie guy that I am. You could just go to sevenpercentslower.com, which you can either spell it seven or use the number 7, sevenpercentslower.com. We'll get you right to the page on my website that tells you about the book, which should come out plus or minus September 15th. So, I don't know when this podcast is going to air, but it's either out or not. If it's not, just get on my mailing list and I'll tell you when it is out. And yeah, that's how you got it. It's nice, friendly, short. You read it pretty quickly, I'm sure. It's not a giant 400-page monster like The Anxious Truth. It's friendly, easy, I like to think funny, easy to remember. Kimberley: It's so great. I'm actually so in love since the summer. I read all these amazing, just like short, really goes straight to the point. I cannot stand books that tell you something they could have told you in 100 pages. So I love that. I think it was exactly what I needed to hear. So I'm so grateful. Drew: Oh, I'm glad that you find it helpful, and thank you so much for giving me this little spotlight to talk about it and appreciate you. Kimberley: Of course. I probably a hundred episodes got on and went on a big lecture about how everyone has to slow down. And this is perfect timing. I think we all need it right now. Drew: Very good. Well, go get it. Sevenpercentslower.com. Hope it's helpful for everybody. Kimberley: Thank you, Drew. Drew: Thanks, Kim. Anytime. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09G227B1Z/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=coping+skills+for+anxiety&qid=1631488551&s=digital-text&sr=1-9

What's my life's purpose? Why am I here? How do you truly show up for a mission-centered life? If you're looking to expand your vision beyond that self-limiting daily treadmill, then this episode of Drew & You will speak to you at a deep level. The focus is on locating your individual wellspring, that source that sparks you to jump out of bed every day with a commitment to living your best life. For starters, it's about thinking first and foremost of others. Drew invites listeners to consider five building blocks that form the bedrock of a mission-centered life. These are practices that may be new or uncomfortable, completely different from anything built into the daily world you knew growing up. But if you're tuned into this podcast, you're opening up to possibility – and the wonder of living into something bigger than yourself. Drew is here to share his own journey and help point the way as you uncover your own unique path. If you like today's episode make sure and leave us a REVIEW and don't forget to SUBSCRIBE for a chance to win Organifi every week! KEY IDEAS:   If you're listening, there's a reason you're here. Imagine that this podcast is a gift and your job is simply to receive it. Drew shares his key ingredients for living a mission-centered life, starting with rapturous gratitude always at the center.  Daily rituals to help ensure you're realizing your vision: #1 Set intention. Close your eyes, picture what you want to accomplish. #2 Let it go: What are you tolerating that does not serve? Choose to relinquish things that do not support the abundance you seek. #3 Turn your reality into a game: Challenge yourself to be a trickster and come alive by living into the interplay that is our existence. #4 See every single human as a spirit (whatever your god, life force, higher power) in disguise.  #5 Never stop learning! Keep those “wow goggles” on because it's in a perpetual state of inquiry and growth that we are most alive. No matter what you're up against, take the five things we've discussed and adapt them to your personal challenges. Then watch and see how things turn around.   QUOTES: “The more appreciation you have, the more you appreciate.” (3:30)   “Are you casting joy to other human beings, even if they're in a disgruntled place? When we start to look at the world as a game, it starts to change everything.” (6:45)   “What's the one thing that you've been tolerating that you simply need to let go of?” (6:21)   “The fastest way to get to that enlightened place, that ascended being, is the trickster!” (7:21)   “To live a bigger mission with a purpose is to learn every single day.” (9:31)   “The ride gets lonely if you're just a collector – collecting money, collecting assets, houses, cars and things. (9:54)   “The greater the opportunity is to work on the cellular matrix of your body, to empower it with more voltage and self-love, the bigger gain and the bigger you. How big do you want to go?” (13:08) Further Resources/Links:  “Feeling is the Secret,” Neville Goddard https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/53644992-feeling-is-the-secret?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=qjRplxmqHs&rank=2   “Life Was Never Meant to be a Struggle.” Stuart Wilde https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/67759.Life_Was_Never_Meant_to_Be_a_Struggle    You Be You, by Drew Canole https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40499338-you-be-you?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=rrm7DepWic&rank=1   “Becoming Supernatural,” Joe Dispenza https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35852435-becoming-supernatural?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=X6WAsHTpmv&rank=2 Follow Drew: @Twitter @Instagram @Facebook Organifi Website: https://www.organifishop.com Follow Drew: @Twitter @Instagram @Facebook Organifi Website: https://www.organifishop.com Soul CBD: Visit https://pod-mysoulcbd.com/drew and get 15% off your next order!         

How to be an incredible leader even as a QUICKSTART. If you're looking to become a more conscious, evolved leader, this episode of Drew & You is not to be missed. Host Drew Canole wasn't always the visionary that he is today and in fact, he is still on an evolving journey, seeking perspectives that will take global leadership to a whole new level. In this episode, Drew dives deep into what he's learned about leadership in all its components. From the toxic to the transcendental, the journey is about healing early wounding and then moving on to raise up others in their quest to do the same. Drew breaks down the critical components he identified on the way to untangling his own leadership style. He could not have taken Organifi or his life to where it is now without first retooling his concept of what it is to be a leader. It all starts with intentionality. “With every thought, every word, you're creating a wish,” says Drew. With each person we help, we are contributing to a universe of leadership that transforms, uplifts, and inspires.   Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE and Leave a review for a chance to win Organifi products each week!    KEY IDEAS: What is leadership? What are the narratives that run beneath contemporary leadership, derived from toxic energies and traumatic wounding? Where is leadership going? Drew is open and excited to discover new directions. Setting intention: In this moment, during this podcast, receive the message and listen to what you already know. Drew's story: He wasn't raised to be a leader. BUT he was raised to have heart and integrity. Leadership built atop a broken, wounded child is never solid. Elevate your frequency: Shed toxic behaviors, relationships, and thought patterns. Drew shares the impacts of his “people-pleasing” history, which for a long time helped him avoid pain and allowed his life to remain out of control. The change started with a simple message: Helping at least one person every day. How Drew's effort to “help one person” led him to an entrepreneurial passion that changed his life. (Hint: It involved moving from a daily smoothie to juicing.) For the past 11 years, Drew's commitment to “help one person” has morphed into a multi-dimensional quest to help others heal on every level – psychic, physical, emotional spiritual, and intellectual. Organifi superfoods came into being specifically to boost that mission! Foundational elements for building leadership: Trust: A critical element of leadership, it activates and vitalizes others on the team. Reading: It only takes reading four books on any one topic to become smarter than 99% of the population. Intentionality: Open yourself to knowing that you are enough and set the vibration that will attract people into your life who will mirror that back. Mindfulness: Recognize that everything you do matters. Be conscious of how you show up to everything you do and how you behave. Celebrate: Take every opportunity to recognize and praise those around you, lifting them up by gifting them with things they need before they know they need them. Collaborate: Look for opportunities to partner with organizations that, like you, want to advance a positive vision and start movements for good. Model Self-Love: Be the leader who balances masculine and feminine, and pours attention into your own being to keep the cup full.     QUOTES: “The leadership we're talking about is a balance of your higher self and the self that you see as you on the planet at this time.” (1:54)   “Don't read to learn. Read to teach. Embody it in that cellular memory!” (3:40)   “We need everybody to lead now.” (4:38)   “I spent the majority of the beginning of my life trying to prove what an effective leader was and … and it was the most ineffective leadership I could imagine.” (6:26)   “When the ego is in the seat, whatever money you make your ego likes to spend because it keeps you at the wealth frequency you're already at.” (7:39)   “When your authenticity is out the window, you have no intuition, no self-respect, no self-love.” (8:10)   “All the trauma that happened TO me, I turned it into happening FOR me. I turned it into rocket fuel.” (11:07)   “I wasn't trying to build a community. I wasn't the old Drew that had to ‘prove' things. I was just lit up about these super-foods!” (14:49)   “I realized my soul's purpose is to simply help people feel better in their bodies.” (15:31)   “A leader doesn't try to lead. A leader is a teacher by default. A leader is just expressing dominion and embodying what it takes.” (17:13)   “A conscious, evolved leader sees (death) as just another transition.” (17:50)   “To be an effective leader you have to be elevating the people around you. You don't want to be the smartest leader in the room.” (18:20)   “You are the expert. You are the leader already. There are tons of people who want to be led by you.” (21:10)   “Heaven is in the details. What you do matters. … Do whatever it takes.”  (23:02)   “When we really start holding space for ourselves, that wounded child starts to grab the hand of the divine child ... that pulls us forward into this unknown place of joy, serenity peace. It's a shift and that's where leadership is headed!” (28:09)     Further Resources/Links: The Five Love Languages, Heartmath App https://www.heartmath.com   Brains on Fire,  Robbin Phillips, Greg Cordell, Geno Church, Spike Jones https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9155060-brains-on-fire?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=4LV2OFNbyB&rank=1       Follow Drew: @Twitter @Instagram @Facebook Organifi Website: https://www.organifishop.com Soul CBD: Visit https://pod-mysoulcbd.com/drew and get 15% off your next order!         

Let’s talk about one aspect of health care that’s not talked about possibly often enough: big national health care players siphoning money out of local communities—potentially a lot of money depending on where you are and considering that health care is inching toward about 20% of the GDP. But besides the money leaving the community, another downside of large national players is that sometimes problems—even kind of seemingly simple problems—can be totally intractable and unsolvable because there’s just so much diversity of need and intricacies if you’re trying to come up with a broad-stroke solution that works for everybody across the land. On the other hand, by thinking and acting locally, these same problems can be solved. Besides, at a local scale, community and relationships within the community can become powerful forces for good. In this context, I was super thrilled to have had the chance to interview Dan Strause from Hometown Pharmacy and Drew Leatherberry from Avergent about a collaboration model they put together pairing up local PCP teams hired by self-insured employers with their local hometown pharmacy. Together, they’re similar to a team-based advanced primary care model that also has a level of navigation built in. Considering that patients visit their local pharmacy something like 35-ish times a year, it’s the expertise right in front of your face to help manage patients with chronic conditions. Add to this equation a pharmacist’s education and a local pharmacy’s position as a member of the community. Local pharmacies who are patient first and entrepreneurial could be a great way to keep health care local and solve for the needs of their communities at the same time. This episode is the first-ever simulcast between Health Rosetta and the Relentless Health Value podcast. It was recorded live at the recent Health Rosetta Summit. Thanks much to the Health Rosetta team, including Dave Chase, for inviting me and Relentless Health Value to be a part of the summit. In this episode, the CPESN Pharmacy Network comes up. Should you wish to learn more about the CPESN Pharmacy Network, listen to the Relentless Health Value interview 129 with Troy Trygstad.  You can learn more at hometownrxpharmacy.com and avergent.com. Dan Strause is a partner at Hometown Pharmacy of Wisconsin, a group of 70+ independent pharmacies focused on personalized patient care. Hometown Pharmacy educates and empowers patients and communities to make informed decisions about their health.     Drew Leatherberry is founder of Avergent, a Wisconsin-based benefits advisement firm serving employers around the country, guiding them to 20% to 40% cost savings on top of next-gen benefits and patient experiences. He has spent over a decade leading employers to restore health care to sustainable levels for their team members.     05:02 What has Avergent’s collaborative care model accomplished? 06:07 How did Drew and Dan connect? 07:08 “We realized that we were missing out [on] … how … to leverage the experience and the expertise of the pharmacist in driving better patient care.”—Drew 07:31 Why would a pharmacy make it their goal to get their patients off their medications? 08:20 “Prescription medicine is the most expensive, most dangerous form of a plant.”—Dan 08:39 “We believe we can help people by giving up prescription medicines.”—Dan 08:45 Is a pharmacy equipped to create a personal relationship with their patients? 12:50 “It’s a spin on traditional navigator-advocate-type roles.”—Drew 16:15 What does helping the patient look like through this partnership program? 19:18 “We’re really unifying the patient health record … and then … cross-referencing all those different data points … on a micro level [and] a macro level.”—Drew 20:53 “Everyone is onboarded into the collaborative care model.”—Drew 21:05 How does this collaborative care model cross the spectrum? 22:13 “Pharmacists are one of the unique professions that doesn’t get paid for time and knowledge [but rather] because of the product they dispense.”—Dan 23:06 “We can see the day where … patients will get a prescription from mail order but still need us.”—Dan 25:46 “We would love to get paid to keep you healthy.”—Dan 27:15 Why are pharmacists wanting to get patients off prescriptions, and how are they involved? 27:36 “In some cases, we are misapplying expertise that’s sitting right in front of our face that can help us deliver a better patient outcome.”—Drew You can learn more at hometownrxpharmacy.com and avergent.com. Dan Strause of @HometownRxWi and Drew Leatherberry from Avergent discuss #pharmacy partnerships on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #pharma “We realized that we were missing out [on] … how … to leverage the experience and the expertise of the pharmacist in driving better patient care.” Dan Strause of @HometownRxWi and Drew Leatherberry from Avergent discuss #pharmacy partnerships on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #pharma Why would a pharmacy make it their goal to get their patients off their medications? Dan Strause of @HometownRxWi and Drew Leatherberry from Avergent discuss #pharmacy partnerships on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #pharma “Prescription medicine is the most expensive, most dangerous form of a plant.” Dan Strause of @HometownRxWi and Drew Leatherberry from Avergent discuss #pharmacy partnerships on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #pharma “We believe we can help people by giving up prescription medicines.” Dan Strause of @HometownRxWi and Drew Leatherberry from Avergent discuss #pharmacy partnerships on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #pharma Is a pharmacy equipped to create a personal relationship with their patients? Dan Strause of @HometownRxWi and Drew Leatherberry from Avergent discuss #pharmacy partnerships on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #pharma “Everyone is onboarded into the collaborative care model.” Dan Strause of @HometownRxWi and Drew Leatherberry from Avergent discuss #pharmacy partnerships on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #pharma How does this collaborative care model cross the spectrum? Dan Strause of @HometownRxWi and Drew Leatherberry from Avergent discuss #pharmacy partnerships on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #pharma “Pharmacists are one of the unique professions that doesn’t get paid for time and knowledge [but rather] because of the product they dispense.” Dan Strause of @HometownRxWi and Drew Leatherberry from Avergent discuss #pharmacy partnerships on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #pharma “We can see the day where … patients will get a prescription from mail order but still need us.” Dan Strause of @HometownRxWi and Drew Leatherberry from Avergent discuss #pharmacy partnerships on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #pharma “We would love to get paid to keep you healthy.” Dan Strause of @HometownRxWi and Drew Leatherberry from Avergent discuss #pharmacy partnerships on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #pharma “In some cases, we are misapplying expertise that’s sitting right in front of our face that can help us deliver a better patient outcome.” Dan Strause of @HometownRxWi and Drew Leatherberry from Avergent discuss #pharmacy partnerships on our #healthcarepodcast. #healthcare #podcast #pharma

If you don't know what your mission or purpose, you are doing it right now. This episode of Drew & You is all about visioning your mission and understanding that it all starts with helping as many people as possible today. Drew shares lessons learned through his journey from feeling overwhelmed and disconnected to putting in place the planks that have ultimately built his multidimensional life. Among those critical components?   Attending to health and well-being. Cultivating meaningful relationships. Untangling the relationship between “compete” and “complete.” Looking for meaningful places to plugin. Ensuring that you surround yourself with work and people that support your essential values and vision.   Drew wraps up with a call to put the tenets he has put forth into practice today. If what you're doing doesn't light your soul on fire, make a change. Look to “infect” others with your sense of mission and the payoff will be enormous on every level.   Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE and Leave a review for a chance to win Organifi products each week!      KEY IDEAS: How Drew initially came to his entrepreneurial ventures, and the reorientation required once he realized that good health was a cornerstone. The miraculous story of a man with a terminal disease turned it all around and sparked Drew with his story. (Hint: Juicing takes a starring role.) How taking one step towards feeling good and then another towards sharing it led to Drew's best life. How videos, giveaways, and passionate acts of service ultimately established Drew's entrepreneurial footprint. Fueled by purpose and positivity, Drew's online community grew from 12 views to tens of thousands! The moral is … If you're going to spend a huge chunk of your life working, why not make it something you love in conjunction with people you love? Looking for the right community – one that is “for” something and that empowers you to go for what you want. Vision: The more you can imagine the more you can inspire. Find your lane! Drew explains the importance of understanding the difference between “complete versus compete.” The universe always delivers back 10x. Find your tribe! Look for others who share your passions and vision, those who “get” you and your mission because in some way they share it. Look for a doorway to remove obstacles and heal trauma, then walk through! Action: What can you do today? Are you ready to look at the biggest messes in your life? Can you make yourself vulnerable and share your story with others? All it takes is one idea to start the process of transformation. Mark the date – the day you heard this podcast – to see where you are a year from now!   QUOTES: “Turn your mess into a mission!” (1:24)   “I was being breathed. I wasn't breathing … and I just wanted to do it more and more and impact more and more people.” (5:18)   “I knew 100% beyond the shadow of a doubt that if I just kept ringing the bell every day, doing one thing to impact someone else's life, that it would all come back to me.” (6:01)   “If you're going to work one-third of your life, why not do something you really love and why not do it with people you love?” (7:13)   “You have to be willing to do the uncommon thing, which most humans aren't willing to do because they're so stuck in a program.” (7:38)   “The more you can pour energy (into your vision) the more that reality starts to show itself, but you have to go there in your mind.” (8:36)   “I like to compete versus complete.” (10:11)   “I think we're in a loneliness epidemic, so the more we can be together, show our vulnerability, show our bellies, show ourselves, the more possibility starts to open up for humanity – and that's a beautiful thing.” (13:34)   “Own your awesome and all that you are. And live from a mission that lights your soul on fire!” (14:49)     Further Resources/Links: “Train Your Taste to Trim Your Waist,” by Drew Canole https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20058103-train-your-taste-to-trim-your-waist   Fitness Legend Jack LaLanne: http://jacklalanne.com   “Juicing Recipes from Fitlife for Vitality and Health,” by Drew Canole https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17670511-juicing-recipes-from-fitlife-tv-star-drew-canole-for-vitality-and-health   “You Be You,” by Drew Canole https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38902982-you-be-you   Follow Drew: @Twitter @Instagram @Facebook Organifi Website: https://www.organifishop.com   Soul CBD: Visit https://pod-mysoulcbd.com/drew and get 15% off your next order!         

Are you living with intent every single day? Have you set up the framework you need to support your most authentic and vital life? This episode of Drew & You tackles these questions head-on, drawing on Drew's experience as an aspiring entrepreneur whose all-out pursuit of success left him 40 pounds overweight, exhausted, and broken. Healing his life required more than just self-examination. He developed a concrete strategy to dismantle habits that did not serve him, shedding environmental and mental chaos in favor of something far more sustaining.   You'll hear how Drew transformed his home, relationships, pastimes, goals, and style of engagement with life. The more he got clarity and set intentions, the more he saw real-world results and a consciousness infused with joy and purpose.   There are a lot of cool gadgets and hacks for living your best life, but nothing compensates for the foundational building blocks that Drew describes. He offers Five Fundamentals that set the stage for your most productive and meaningful life. If you implement these baseline practices, a shift will inevitably follow in the form of better mental, physical and creative vitality. The sooner you get started, the sooner you'll see the results play out in everyday ways! Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE and Leave a review for a chance to win Organifi products each week!    KEY IDEAS: The state of Drew's life before he discovered balance and stopped running himself into the ground as an aspiring entrepreneur. Drew shares Five Fundamentals that helped him establish order and create harmony in his life. #1: Your Environment. Having a home that is in complete disarray saps mental health and productivity. Getting your house in order, literally, is the first step to establishing balance and setting the stage for all other pursuits. #2: Your Friends: Who are your friends and how are they pouring vitality into you? If they aren't, you need to have a breakup or intervention. This goes for intimate/romantic relationships as well. Surround yourself with the right stuff. #3: Your Mind. Is there value in your consciousness? Drew shares strategies for affirming mental hygiene. Literally, everything you speak and everything you take into your system is sending messages. Pay attention to your thoughts! #4: Your Boundaries. There are so many distractions, demands, apps, and ways to engage without consciously choosing. Drew shares the incredible shift that occurred after he made a commitment to – and learned how to create a vision for -- both self-care and caring for others. #5: Your Language. Speak as if you're talking to the love of your life – You! The negative self-talk so many people subject themselves to only erodes the quality of life and demean your purpose on the planet.   QUOTES: “I was working myself into oblivion trying to “make it.” (00:31)   “Environment is everything.” (3:04)   “Let your friends know what you're looking to create in your life. Enroll them in your vision for your life.”  (4:34)   “If you're not pouring in new water to nourish the seeds of your own consciousness, then you're just living in the average, mundane TikTok world.” (5:26)   “My beliefs had to shift before my identity did.” (8:56)   “Part of having optimal health is doing what you love every single day.” (10:22)   “When you're in doubt, focus out. When we're hung up on who we are and what we're doing in the world we can get a little too serious.” (11:21)   “Cherish yourself. Hold yourself so high that the rest of the world embodies that.” (13:13)   “The fact that you're breathing means your purpose still hasn't been fulfilled; it means that there is still something more for you, my friend.” (15:48)     Further Resources/Links: “Whydenity,” by Drew Canole https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/25072341-whydentity     Follow Drew: @Twitter @Instagram @Facebook Organifi Website: https://www.organifishop.com Soul CBD: Visit https://pod-mysoulcbd.com/drew and get 15% off your next order!           

In this premiere episode of the Drew andYou podcast, host Drew Canole introduces the concept behind a new kind of conversation – on which he hopes to engage people who want to dive into the setting and achieving personal goals. That could look like something spiritual or emotional, physiological or practical. Drew will be using the wisdom he's acquired through a life journey with many dimensions. He will put into practice all he has learned about neuro-linguistic programming, shamanic, healing, somatic touch, nutrition, and consciousness.   Not only does Drew bring his unique life experience and tool kit, he will also be hosting guests who offer their own intimate perspectives. Podcast episodes will feature a range of topics – from optimizing diet to processing and removing internal wounds. Drew and the experts he hosts will offer live one-on-one coaching and help listeners determine concrete goals, set real intentions and commit as a community to building transformational awareness and growth.   Join Drew as he embarks on a journey to the most authentic possible you. “This is about your own journey – and about you changing your life!”     KEY IDEAS: A bit of background about Drew, his vision, and previous ventures. Themes Drew will be highlighting on upcoming Drew & You episodes. What Drew & You will offer that differentiates it from other podcast content. Going deep: Drew invites listeners to imagine being in the room with him and his guests, digging into intimate details that resonate personally. Call-in consultations will be offered for those who are interested in coaching live with Drew and his guests. Tools Drew will offer to help individuals do the work of healing and connecting with their most authentic selves. The lack of embodiment: The challenge to embrace and fully implement the information that will foster radical action within your life. Who is this podcast for? Anyone with love in their heart and a willingness to grow.     QUOTES: “We're going to wake people up, shake people up and make it so easy that you will never go back to the way you were before.” (4:24)   “Little by little you're going to embody what it means to live a life on your own terms by listening to the people I bring on – the artists, authors, musicians – the people who will join me on this show.” (5:15)   “Vulnerability, when we wear it like a crown, opens up other people's hearts.” (8:10)   “Regardless of what's going on in the world, know that you will have a place to turn to that will give you positivity, motivation, and inspiration.” (9:57)   “This podcast is for anybody that's willing to wake up – anybody that has deep, desired love in their heart and feel infectious but don't know what to do.” (12:19)       Follow Drew: @Twitter @Instagram @Facebook Organifi Website: https://www.organifishop.com Soul CBD: Visit https://pod-mysoulcbd.com/drew and get 15% off your next order!             

In this episode of Drew & You, it's all about the “greats” – authors who have served as mentors to Drew through the years and most especially over the past 11 years as he has retooled his life. The one thing these relationships all have in common? They are rooted in the wisdom of books. Join Drew in a celebration of the rich resources that are available to anyone willing to seek them out.    There are several messages woven through the books that have been most influential for Drew, one of the most prevalent being the power of the unconscious. Coming to awareness takes time and focus and, more than anything, solid guides to help inspire and inform along the way. Drew's mentors range from the financial to the spiritual, the experiential to the cerebral. The list is long and includes noted thinkers like Wayne Dyer, Carlos Castenada, Richard Dawkins, Stuart Wilde, Tony Robbins, and many others. This podcast informs you not only with must-read titles to explore but also Drew's tips for how to be an active reader (or listener) cementing the messages so they're available to apply going forward. The knowledge is out there for anyone willing to tap into the resources. All you need to do is have a willingness to embrace, adopt and apply what you learn.   Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE and Leave a review for a chance to win Organifi products each week!      KEY IDEAS: Authors have acted as mentors throughout Drew's life. Reading with intention has shaped not only Drew's growth but also his ability to share important insights with others navigating on similar journeys. How Drew Reads: Starts with a quick scan, highlight things that pop. Notes key takeaways and page numbers at the front of the book. Take copious notes – to lock in what you're reading. Read 4-5 pages and if there's nothing there, skip ahead to the next 5 and so on, gradually expanding to skip portions that don't really land in the moment for what you need. What it is to live a lucid life. Drew shares specific books that radically shifted his perspective. (Links below.) The power of prayer in healing – the soul you is the lived experience. Upcoming: Let Drew know if you'd like a follow-up podcast featuring powerful business-oriented books he recommends.           QUOTES: “You've gotta work on the inner you first, before the outer you start to shift.” (1:27)   “All these authors have literally poured their hearts and souls into these books that they've created.” (2:05)   “I don't read to read. I read to learn. I read to teach.” (2:30)   “When I write it, I remember it. When I read it, sometime sit just goes out the window.” (3:12)   “Whatever I'm called on to read that day, I'm literally setting the intention for it.” (4:37)   “It's such a beautiful thing when we start to slow down; when we start to see our growth, feel our growth before it manifests.” (7:52)   “If you don't believe it's possible or see that it could happen for you, then it's never going to happen. So you gotta believe!” (10:38)   “Spontaneous healings are happening all the time, but we're so locked into needing something external to heal the internal, where it's actually the reverse.” (12:06)   “These books will help you establish your own personal power again and remind you of what you are.” (12:50)   We must change the way we look at ourselves before the way we look will ever take hold and affect our external situation.” (15:23)   “If we have an individual transformation, then the whole world can change.” (16:48)     Further Resources/Links: “Life was Never Meant to be a Struggle.” Stuart Wilde https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/67759.Life_Was_Never_Meant_to_Be_a_Struggle    “The Science of Getting Rich,” Wallace D. Wattles https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/342504.The_Science_of_Getting_Rich   “Outwitting the Devil,” Napoleon Hill https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10713286-outwitting-the-devil?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=m3TmSDsMZl&rank=1   “Feeling is the Secret,” Neville Goddard https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/53644992-feeling-is-the-secret?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=qjRplxmqHs&rank=2   “Becoming Supernatural,” Joe Dispenza https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35852435-becoming-supernatural?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=X6WAsHTpmv&rank=2   “Science and Health,” by Mary Baker Eddy https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/21372211-science-and-health-with-key-to-the-scriptures---the-christianity-theosop?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=5BL6wk4X9x&rank=1   “Psycho-Cybernetic Principles for Creative Living,” by Maxwell Maltz https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6918015-psycho-cybernetic-principles-for-creative-living?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=jzSTbL7u4T&rank=1Psycho-cybernetics     Follow Drew: @Twitter @Instagram @Facebook Organifi Website: https://www.organifishop.com Soul CBD: Visit https://pod-mysoulcbd.com/drew and get 15% off your next order!           

Host: Drew Canole   In this premiere episode of the Drew & You podcast, host Drew Canole introduces the concept behind a new kind of conversation – on which he hopes to engage people who want to dive into the setting and achieving personal goals. That could look like something spiritual or emotional, physiological or practical. Drew will be using the wisdom he's acquired through a life journey with many dimensions. He will put into practice all he has learned about neuro-linguistic programming, shamanic, healing, somatic touch, nutrition, and consciousness. Not only does Drew bring his unique life experience and tool kit, he will also be hosting guests who offer their own intimate perspectives. Podcast episodes will feature a range of topics – from optimizing diet to processing and removing internal wounds. Drew and the experts he hosts will offer live one-on-one coaching and help listeners determine concrete goals, set real intentions and commit as a community to building transformational awareness and growth.   Join Drew as he embarks on a journey to the most authentic possible you. “This is about your own journey – and about you changing your life!” Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE and Leave a review for a chance to win Organifi products each week!  KEY IDEAS: A bit of background about Drew, his vision, and previous ventures. Themes Drew will be highlighting on upcoming Drew & You episodes. What Drew & You will offer that differentiates it from other podcast content. Going deep: Drew invites listeners to imagine being in the room with him and his guests, digging into intimate details that resonate personally. Call-in consultations will be offered for those who are interested in coaching live with Drew and his guests. Tools Drew will offer to help individuals do the work of healing and connecting with their most authentic selves. The lack of embodiment: The challenge to embrace and fully implement the information that will foster radical action within your life. Who is this podcast for? Anyone with love in their heart and a willingness to grow.   QUOTES: “We're going to wake people up, shake people up and make it so easy that you will never go back to the way you were before.” (4:24)   “Little by little you're going to embody what it means to live a life on your own terms by listening to the people I bring on – the artists, authors, musicians – the people who will join me on this show.” (5:15)   “Vulnerability, when we wear it like a crown, opens up other people's hearts.” (8:10)   “Regardless of what's going on in the world, know that you will have a place to turn to that will give you positivity, motivation, and inspiration.” (9:57)   “This podcast is for anybody that's willing to wake up – anybody that has deep, desired love in their heart and feel infectious but don't know what to do.” (12:19)       Follow Drew: https://twitter.com/drewcanole https://www.instagram.com/drewcanole/ https://www.facebook.com/Drew-Canole-174887279661/ Organifi: https://www.organifishop.com Soul CBD: Visit https://pod-mysoulcbd.com/drew and get 15% off your next order!   

TranscriptAaron Hixson: Hey Northridge, welcome to A Little Better, where our goal is to know God better and to do better, so that we can be a little better. Hey everybody, welcome back to A Little Better. Thank you for joining us for another episode. I'm coming to you with a very important person. His name is Drew Karschner, but he is more famous for his ability to help you paint like a pro. This is our lead pastor, who has some amazing skills that the CW keeps reminding us of. Drew Karschner: Apparently I have bladder issues as well. So, I don’t know. I can paint, but I can't hold my pee. [Both laughing.] Aaron: That is perfect. If anybody has been watching on the CW or you check out from time to time the TV guide, a few times that we've been on TV, the CW has put up -- I don't know if these were previously paid, you know, advertisers or whatever it was. This past week it was how to Paint Like a Pro with Zoom Paint or something like that. And the first week was literally, what was the actual caption for week 1? Drew: It was like, Trouble with Your Bladder or something like that. Aaron: I got so many funny screenshot text messages of people, they would try to catch you with a funny face, and they're like, "having trouble with your bladder." I'm sure you got that too. Drew: I have enough trouble, like, on my own of not making funny moments, or you know, dumb moments myself. Then the CW, obviously would like to help me out as well. Thank you for that. Aaron: Just a little bit of extra boost as if we needed more opportunities for people to make some memes, but, oh my goodness, that's good. And by the way, if you do have any painting tips, I'd love to hear from, you know, the Zoom paint method. Let me know what that is. I'm doing some painting this week, so I need the help. Drew: Nice. Aaron: Yeah, let's actually go in a little bit more here. I have a question I think that maybe is related to the way we've been planning our services ever since COVID has hit. Something that, especially for people that listen to this podcast, they're probably insiders in our church and are familiar with how we do things normally. We haven't typically done a lot of, like, at the end of a service, you might call it an altar call or an invitation, where people can raise their hand and put their faith in Christ, that kind of a thing. We haven't ordinarily done tons of that, but ever since COVID, we've literally done it every week since March the 15th or whatever it was that we went into COVID. So I'm just wondering if you can let us know why is that, what's the thinking behind it. I haven't heard anything negative about it, I just wanna give you an opportunity to cast some vision around that. Drew: Yeah, so the first weekend we had what we would call COVID series. If you remember, we were in the Unfiltered Jesus series. I was in a boat talking about storms in your life. Man, I preached that message and I watched it on the stream. I felt really good about it, but there was one major regret that I had. I know in the season of fear and uncertainty, people have a lot of questions. I walked away from that service and went, "Man, I didn't give people a chance to respond to the truth of the gospel." And I felt this overwhelming sense of a little bit of regret, and I just felt like the Holy Spirit was like, “Drew, you need to lean into this moment and you need to go for it and give people a chance to respond to the gospel.” So, man, I prayed about it, and I just had this sense of confirmation that that's what God wanted me to do and how he wanted me to lead, so I just chased after it. So, ever since that weekend, I've given people a chance to respond to the gospel. There's two reasons why I do that. One, because I think there's a lot of people out there who haven't experienced the hope of Jesus who need to experience the hope of Jesus. I want to give them a clear picture of what that is, the truth behind that, and the way you accept that. But two, I think just as a Christ follower, for us, man, just because I've accepted the gospel doesn't mean I don't still need the gospel. And hearing the truth of the gospel, each week, and being able to pray for people in the moment where they're choosing to respond against the spiritual forces of evil I think is a really powerful reminder and a really powerful moment for our church. And so, I just feel like it's something really God has led me to do. And we've seen God move in people's hearts. There's really no way of measuring salvation. That's something that only God knows. But we've seen, I think up to this point, 106 people say, "Hey, I said that prayer, I chose to respond to this message." And man, I don't know what that number means. I'll be the first one to be honest and say, man, we've had 106 people let us know they said that prayer. I don't know what that means. Only God does. But man, I'm gonna celebrate that people are responding to that, and I just think it's been really cool to see. Aaron: Mmhmm. Yeah, I agree with all that. What's your thought, or what is the conversation thus far related to our plan, let's say -- I'm not even gonna throw a date out there. Let's just say when we're back together, and things are "normal," even though that will likely be a phased approach, what's your guess as to how or when we might continue this, or how long we would continue it? Drew: I don't know if I know the answer to that question. I feel like I'm gonna just, you know, I think we'll continue to do it. I don't even know if going forward we'll continue to do it every single week the way we're doing it. If you've been coming to Northridge church, you know we like to experiment with things. Aaron: Sure. Drew: And we pull things and we add things fast and quick. And so, I'm gonna do it until I feel like, you know, God tells me to stop. I know that's kind of a generic answer, but I don't know. I don't know if we're gonna continue to do it or if we're gonna stop, but I've seen God use it, and I'm gonna celebrate that until we decide to maybe kind of change it or adjust it better for our services. Aaron: Sure. Drew: All that to say, I don't know. Aaron: [Laughing.] That's an extended answer for the reality of I don't know. That's funny. Okay, cool. I just think that’s really helpful for people to hear, and even for me, you know, to think it through. And I'm actually teaching this weekend, so it's good for me to understand some of those dynamics as well, even though we've talked about it some. Cool. So, this past weekend was a cool one on a few different fronts, but getting to baptise Richie was definitely fun for me. Drew: Amazing story. Aaron: Yeah, incredible story. He worked hard to make sure he could express that clearly. I'm so thankful for Richie's willingness to share, and share honestly. I mean, obviously there's details in there that he could have easily told his story without including, and he chose to be honest. And he had even more that he shared especially about, the importance of Starting Point and the particular leaders who lead in the Henrietta campus Starting Point. Brad and Karen Files, Mike and Chris Maloney, are people that he shouted out in particular. And I just, man, that environment across all of our campuses has been so crucial for people's faith. And I think he said it best. He said "they were there to recruit --" I'm sorry. Backwards. [Laughing]Drew: Yeah, that's wrong. Aaron: "They were there to inform, not to recruit." And I love how he said that. That's the reality of Starting Point. Now, at the end of the day, we are all kind of low-key recruiting, right? But the way that you want people to feel is that we're just letting you know the facts so that you can make a decision, and just be praying that God's at work in their lives. Drew: Yeah, we recruit with love. I like that. It's not like people are a number to us. We just love them, and we allow God to do the work that only he can do. That's what he did in Richie's life. He used people to inform them of the truth, love him where he was, and God worked on him. Aaron: Yeah. And if you believe that there's something really good that you're offering to people, even if you're gonna do it in a gentle and kind and loving way, you still are low-key hoping that they'll do it, which is at some level recruiting. You know? So that kind of brings us to that missional relationship thing of living with urgency. Like, if I genuinely believe that I hold the keys to the truth of reality, especially life after death, then I am going to be at some basic level recruiting, but we don't have to think of recruiting in a negative sense where you're getting, you know, cold sales calls from people that you don't know and who don't care about anything but your money. Like, it's not that kind of recruiting, but we could be that kind of urgent. You know, t's a tension to manage, but the fact that he felt as if they were just there to inform, while in the back of their minds they're desperately hoping and praying that he'll come to know Christ, that's why that was so perfect to me. Because it illustrated how we're trying to come across, while maintaining a deep sense of urgency. Drew: Yeah, I think that's well said. Aaron: And you couldn't even see the gloves that I was wearing, so it really worked. [Both laughing.] I was kind of glad they weren't like bright purple surgical gloves, that were up to the elbows or something. That would have looked a little funny. Drew: Dishwasher gloves. Aaron: Yeah, dishwasher gloves. [Both laughing.] Which, by the way, do you ever wear those when you wash dishes? Drew: No. My wife wears them every time. She's got, like, purple polka-dotted ones and bright red ones, I'm like, why? You know why I wear them? I use them for one thing and one thing only. You ever try to open a jar you can't open? Those gloves are bomb-diggity for getting jars. I mean, literally. I can squeeze my hand, my hand hurts, I put those gloves on, I'm like Hulk. I become the Hulk with that. I'm like, [grunts.] Aaron: That's amazing. I gotta say, I've never had a jar I couldn't immediately open. Basically I just look at a jar, and it starts opening because I'm, like, incredibly strong. Drew: It's cause Lauren twists them for you. Aaron: Well, what? No. Drew: It's cause she pre-twists them for you. Aaron: [Laughing.] Whatever, whatever. Dude, I actually -- Lauren somewhere along the way, like, had decided to grab some of those gloves and now I legit, like I don't want to touch anything in the sink if I'm not wearing those gloves. It's incredible. Drew: I'm not sure I'd let the public know that, Aaron. Aaron: No, seriously bro. Imagine doing like 15 minutes of dishes --Drew: You're not gonna convince me on this. Aaron: Dude, 15 minutes of dishes and there's no wrinkly hands afterwards. It's amazing. Drew: Aaron, I like tubs. So that wrinkly feeling is -- I like it. Aaron: Oh my goodness. Again, there's so much wrong with your whole approach related to water. I just feel like we need to do a whole segment. Drew: You mean the most important resource in the world and I actually like it? You know your body is made up of like 75%, so like, right now, you're rejecting 75% of who you are and who God made you to be. Aaron: No, I don't like to sit in my own filth. That's why I don't like it. [Laughing.] Whatever. The fact that you don't pre-shower before a bath is -- I can't, I'll never be over that. Drew: Just to give a pre-reference, if I work out in the mud, in the field, I do pre-shower. But when I'm already clean and I wanna relax, I just get in the nice clear water. Aaron: Okay, okay. Enjoy your lavender bath bomb. I’ll just -- actually, that would be amazing. I'll take a lavender bath bomb right now. I just would pre-shower. Okay, so the series A Life That Matters, one thing I wanna lean into, we've gotten some feedback I think is actually really helpful around the name of the series and what people are understanding it to mean. Let me just set some context and have you give some clarity around it. The tension is, A Life that Matters sounds as if what we're saying, cause the word matters has multiple meanings, and so if you think of the word matters in our culture, oftentimes it's coming up with like Black Lives Matter or All Lives Matter or Blue Lives Matter and all of the tension surrounding that. But what those hashtags are meant to convey, and in particular, Black Lives Matter, is just trying to illustrate that, you know, people in our community are sometimes treated as if they don't matter. And so this hashtag is meant to highlight the fact that these are lives that actually do have inherent value and worth. So they're using the word matter to imply, this life has value. Just in and of itself. Its existence has value. So when we say "a life that matters," we're kind of making it seem as if, when you look at the world, there are some lives that have inherent value and some lives that don't have inherent value, because that's what the word matter can mean at times. So, I don't believe we're saying that, and I would love for you to tell us what we mean by the word matter so that we can clear up for people that we're not demeaning the value of any human. Drew: Sure, and I think we brought a little bit of clarity to that this weekend when we talked about relationships and, you know, we made this statement, I made this statement. I don't know why I said we. I guess it was just me and that empty room all by myself. Aaron: The royal plural. Drew: You know, we said every life matters. It has intrinsic value because God made people that way, he put his image in them, and so every life has value. That's the way God made us. And so, you can't argue that statement because God already stamped his approval, the truth on it. And so every life has value. What we're really talking about in this series is what you do with your life. And does what you do actually make it count? And so your actions have a lot of weight on whether your life has impact, counts, for not just here and now, but for all of eternity. And so we're looking at kind of the idea of legacy, of a legacy that you can -- and we're gonna talk about this in the series, so this is a kind of sneak preview of where we're headed - a legacy that lasts here on earth, but also looks towards eternity. And so, this is really an action oriented series on what you're doing with your life and how much it can count if you're investing it in the right things. Aaron: Got it. So it's more about the cumulative result of your life's efforts. And I love that word legacy. I think that's. A perfect description because that's what we're leaning into. If you get to the end of your life and you were to just tabulate what you've accomplished and who it will impact, and for how long it will impact them, will you be able to say your life matters? And there's people who have accomplished a lot, but it's stuff that won't ultimately matter for eternity, like whatever, a sports legend who invests their entire life in sports and they get to the end of it, and they're like, "Okay, you got 6 MVPs" or whatever, but that's not gonna matter for eternity. That's not to say that the only thing that has -- the only thing you're allowed to do with your life, like if you're an accountant, you need to quit and become a missionary because you're crunching numbers and that doesn't matter. Of course that's not what we're saying. But that's what A Life That Matters is meant to imply, is are you investing your life, whether you're an accountant, a pastor, an NBA star, whatever you're doing, are you using that platform and those opportunities to have a result of your life that you're gonna say, man I'm so glad that I was a basketball player this way, that I was an accountant who operated this way at work? You know?Drew: Yeah, and I think it goes back to what Paul said this weekend, making the most of every opportunity so, it's learning to invest your time into the right things that not only have impact here, but have impact for forever. Aaron: Got it. So, I think that we'll, if there are folks either struggling through that or trying to figure out if we're making it seem as if someone matters or doesn't -- in fact, I think it's important to say, no matter how you spend your life, it will not impact in any way your inherent worth. You can't make yourself more or less valuable to God by the way that you live your life. Drew: Isn't that the great thing about God? How awesome is that. That truth is amazing, that no matter what you do with your life, doesn't change the value God has placed on your life, but it has significance for where you spend your eternity. Aaron: Yeah. So, if people have questions about that, if you're still struggling through that, trying to figure out either what we mean, or if there's anything in this that brings up a tension in your own life, feel free. Of course, always reach out to any of us, anybody on our staff, any of our social media, we've made that clear. We want to be as accessible as possible. And we would love to bring up specific questions or tensions if you've got them. One thing that we even talked about, Drew, as we were, I guess, sorting through this tension was -- something that came to my mind right away was a line from the book Don't Waste Your Life by John Piper, which, if you haven't read it, it's kind of like a Christian classic at this point. John Piper makes some really strong points about how to invest our lives, and I think it has really impacted a generation of Christianity. But there's a moment -- John Piper's father was an evangelist. At one of his evangelism meetings a guy came forward, placed his faith in Christ, he was in his late 60s or something. John Piper has a vivid memory of this man in what felt like -- John Piper's a kid, so this guy felt really old. And he was at the end of his life and had just placed his faith in Christ. The refrain he kept repeating after placing his faith in Christ was, "I've wasted it, I've wasted it, I've wasted it." The guy, looking back on his life and realizing, "I have nothing to show for these 60-plus years of my life because I've spent it all on myself.” So that person, this guy, he doesn't not matter to God. Of course he matters to God. He has an inherent worth. But he was self-declaring, "I've wasted my life. I've spent it on stuff that doesn't matter, and now I wish I could invest in something that does." Drew: That reminds me, Aaron, this is kind of a sneak peak into this weekend is, we've got a story we're gonna share that is very similar to that. I think it's gonna be really powerful in your message. I can't wait. I just watched it. Man, it'll charge you up. It'll cause you to reevaluate what you're doing with your life. Aaron: No doubt. Drew: It's so powerful. Make sure you're inviting your friends. What a great story. Aaron: It's an incredible story. Drew: By the way, shoutout to Connor Ellsworth, who is actually in our Zoom call right now. Dude, you did an incredible job with the video. Aaron: It came together really well. I've watched it, I don't know, a number of times, and each time, I keep thinking, the first time I listened to it I was like, "Wait, why am I preaching? Can we just play this?" It's like a four and a half minute video and I'm like, let's just play this and be done. I have nothing to contribute. Yeah. It's so good. And his sentiment, this guy from the book Don't Waste Your Life and what you're gonna hear from Michael this weekend, it's just the idea that, "Man, I wish I had done this differently. I don't feel like my life had mattered until I started living this way." Drew: And that's what this series is all about. We talk about death brings perspective. When you're facing death, it doesn't matter how well you lived your life. There's gonna be things you look back and be like, "I did a great job with this." But there's also gonna be areas where you're like, "I wish I would've changed things. I wish I would have done things differently." It's crisis and death that actually give us the clarity that we need to see things accurately. Aaron: I love that. Let's actually talk about that related to the different categories of relationships. What would you do differently, where do you think we tend to go wrong? This is related to everyday relationships, intimate relationships, missional relationships, and our relationship with God. Those are the four categories you talked about, and you even did a little bit of, you know, confession or honesty with us about phone-snubbing your kids or whatever and having regret around that, as we all have. How have you processed this just since Sunday related to making the most of every opportunity and relationship? Drew: I think the big things I was challenged by my message was, one, I want to have more boldness. I feel like I'm seeing that in this crisis. I've had way more boldness just to invite anybody and everybody. I've been, like, scrolling through my contacts being like, "Who haven't I talked to in a while and how can I invite them to the live stream?" And I'm realizing, the worst thing that can happen to me is someone ignores my text or says "I'm not interested." This crisis has given me this, like "Dude, why haven't you been this bold before? What has stopped you?" And it's just creating a boldness in me. And I want more of that. I want that to continue to grow. I don't want that to fade as the crisis fades. I want to keep that, this urgency of, man, I can come up with all the excuses. But what urgency does is it just tears down all my excuses and says "Let's go for it." I'm learning a little bit of that with my missional relationships. Then, with my everyday relationships, obviously I don't want to talk too much about my dad, because we've talked about him, but whew. Yeah. There's just some moments I regret, I wish I could get back. [Emotional.] So that's all I'll say about that cause I'm not gonna make it through. Aaron: Yeah. And as much as sometimes we'll make it seem like you're the emotional one and I'm the nerdy one, I am a super sappy person when it comes to certain relationships, in particular with Lauren. Like, we legit can't watch -- even like romcoms are sometimes on the edge for me, like if there's breakups or spouses passing away or stuff like that. I'm always just like, "Oh, Lauren I love you so much, don't ever leave me" and "I'm gonna miss you." I don't know,something about seeing other people's tragedies that makes us realize that this relationship matters, but an hour ago I thought it was more interesting to be watching some YouTube video. We've all had that moment where either you're talking to your spouse or a friend or something, and the phone starts to creep in and now you're looking at your phone. I've done this a million times where I have to admit to Lauren, I'm like, "I gotta be real with you, I didn't hear a word you just said” because I was too busy doing something stupid.You talked about how we replace the meaningful with the meaningless. I'm watching a YouTube video on how to set up dust collection in a woodshop and the love of my life is talking to me about something. Even if it's insignificant, and I've somehow decided in that moment that I'm gonna prioritize the dumbest video. And as you said, those are the moments that I'm just gonna say, "What was I thinking?" You know? We can't live our lives full of regret, like "Did I literally maximize every second of our relationship?" and I know that. Drew: Right, right. Aaron: But at the same time, I don't wanna lose seconds, you know? I want to make the most of every opportunity. Paul uses that in particular with missions. In both Ephesians and Colossians, those are specific to people who are far from God. He's saying, make the most of every opportunity, but I love that you applied it more generally to even just either your barista or the people that we know the most. Make the most. Why would you not make the most? We have such a short life. These people mean so much to us, and these people will be around for eternity, so catch every moment. You know? Drew: Right, and I just think, you know, we've all worked a job where someone's a jerk to us. And we've all worked a job when someone was kind and appreciative. Sometimes it's as simple as that with your waitress or the person serving you coffee or whoever, your coworkers. It's just like, "Hey, I appreciate you." That goes a long way. Or, "Hey, thanks for my coffee. It was amazing." Or "Hey, how's your day going?" One thing my wife is so good at, and honestly this is where I get convicted in my everyday relationships. We're checking out and I'm ready to go, and my wife is sitting there talking to the cash register. And I'm like, "Babe, shut up! Let's go!" Like, Drew, this is a person. And they're talking to me. And I'm like, dang. I'm a jerk. I am a jerk. I'd rather get on with my day than make the most of the opportunity in front of me. And my wife is so good at this. She'll sit there and, 30 minutes talk, even if there's people behind her. I'm like, "Babe, these people hate you back here, and this person loves you." Aaron: Every cashier that's ever talked to Ashley loves her. Everybody who's behind Ashley hates her. Drew: Like, just keep moving. My wife knows the people at where she goes, where she shops. She knows the name. When she shows up, they're like, "Hey, Ashley, good to see you," and I'm like, "Who are you?" And I'm convicted. I do, I view these people as a means to an end. Your job is to check me out, give me it as fast as you can so I can get the heck out of here. Aaron: Mmhmm. Yeah. And it's very difficult when people serve a utilitarian purpose in our life, it's very easy to begin to ignore them, to not even see them. And you mentioned it, we right now care about these "everyday relationships" in a way we don't normally because, at the moment, your interaction with the cashier at Wegmans is now like --Drew: Vital. Aaron: It's also one of your only interactions with somebody that's not your family. Drew: Can we talk, please? Aaron: You're chatting it up with everybody. Drew: Except there's a screen there. Back away sir. I'm like, "I just need a hug!" Aaron: It's bulletproof glass and they're just like, "Please back away from the barrier." But yeah, so we notice these people and we are grateful for these people, but, you know, life will go back to normal, just like a year after a funeral we go back to how we were operating. Months down the road after this crisis is over, we're gonna start ignoring people again. And so, that's what this series, the essence of it is, you know, it's better to go to a house of mourning, learn the lesson there, and concentrate it into your life such that it won't take crisises in the future to make you care about people, to not miss moments with your family. I know we keep coming back to what this series is all about, but I guess that's just what feels, that's the heart of it. Drew: That's why we do this, cause they're so important. Everybody wants to go back to normal, which I get, at some level I do. But I think we would be missing what God's trying to do if we just go back to the old normal that we had. Maybe we create a new normal that is actually more effective and actually, with our lives, counts even more. Aaron: Yeah, that's beautiful. Let's push toward that. Anything we need to know about this coming weekend? Drew: Um, the man with the beard is preaching. Aaron: Mmm, Nate Miller. [Laughing.] No. Drew: You're preaching, which I'm excited. One, I'm thankful. I just needed a break emotionally and spiritually and physically, so thank you for that. I'm excited to hear. We're gonna be talking about investing our resources, and so it's gonna be incredible, awesome. We're gonna look at two stories, so I'm pumped about that. It's gonna be a great weekend. I've loved this series, and I think it's having some impact on people's lives. Aaron: Agreed. Drew: Do you have anything to say about this weekend? Aaron: Um, well, other than, if you love it, then I did some tweaking. If you hate it, then it was Drew's original message. That's all I have to say. Whatever credit there is to have, I want it. Whatever blame there is, I'm dishing it. Drew: I'll take it for you, bro. You're preaching for me, I'll take your blame. Aaron: [Laughing.] Hopefully the CW, dude, if they give me -- I can't wait for what caption they give. Drew: You know it's gonna be perfect because I'm not there. You won't get any pictures, no awkward faces with the bladder out of control, it'll be like, the title's gonna be Aaron Hixson is better than Drew. That's what they're gonna put. Aaron: No, it's gonna be, like, a modeling agency or something. It'll be like, "Don't you wish you looked this good?" [Laughing.] Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, we'll just wait and see. I don't wanna get too excited about what the CW labels me. Thanks everybody for listening. Seriously, we would love to have a conversation with you. Send in comments, questions, concerns. We wanna alleviate tensions and help everybody the way that we can. So, we'll see you this weekend on the chat stream or the correctly labelled CW. Thanks guys. Transcript lightly edited for readability.

We sit down with Drew MacFadyen aka @VeryWhiteGuy to discuss allyship, his dope wife Leslie and tips for white men to support inclusion and diversity in the workplace. Length: 21:27Host: Zach Interracial Jawn http://interracialjawn.com/Leslie Mac https://twitter.com/LeslieMacTRANSCRIPTZach: What’s up, y’all? It’s Zach with Living Corporate, and yes, you’re listening to a B-Side. Now, yes, we’ve introduced the purpose of a B-Side before, but every episode--remember, guys--is someone’s first episode. So for our new folks, B-Sides are essentially shows we have in-between our larger shows. These are much less structured and somehow even more lit--yes, even more lit--than our regularly scheduled shows. Sometimes they’re discussions that the hosts have internally that we share with you guys. Sometimes they are extended monologues. Or maybe they’re a chat with a special guest, and guess what? Today we have such a guest, Drew MacFadyen. Drew is the Vice President of Sales and Marketing at the busiest website in human translation in the world. In addition to his professional work, Drew is passionate about anti-racism and social inequity, known in that domain as Drew and @VeryWhiteGuy, and I can confirm--he is very white. He and his wife lead an organization called Interracial Jawn, where they discuss pop culture, TV, movies, and current events from their unique perspectives as a Very White Guy and a mostly black woman. Drew, welcome to the show, man. How are you doing? Drew: I’m well. You set the bar--that intro set it very, very high, I feel. Zach: [laughs] Drew: I usually like to under-promise and over-deliver and you’ve really--you set it high, but I’ll try. I’ll try my best. Thank you, man. Like, I appreciate it. Zach: No problem, man. So look, recently on the show we’ve discussed the concept of allyship in Corporate America. Were you able to check the episode out? And if so, what did you think about it? Drew: I did listen to the last episode, and forgive me, I can’t remember the author, the woman you had on as a guest. Zach: Amy. Yeah, Amy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Drew: So I did listen to the episode, and I agree with almost everything Amy said, you know? She was pretty spot on. I thought it was a good episode. White anti-racists, myself included, have a history of being real kind of, like, condescending and holier-than-thou, particularly with other white folks. Like, “woker than you” is, like, a thing. Zach: [laughs] Drew: You know what I’m talking about? Like, on Twitter you’ll see white folks kind of, like, piling on to, like, you know, “I’m the most woke, and therefore this or that.” So I really liked what Amy had to say, and I think everything she said was really accurate, but I do struggle a little bit--and just, again, you referenced the podcast that I have, and I’m married to Leslie, and she goes on Twitter as LeslieMac. She’s an actual activist and an organizer and has done some really amazing things and, you know, I’ve seen her work, you know, commodified, stolen, outright taken. Twitter threads turned into articles in the New York Post kind of thing. Like, actually I’ve seen that happen. Zach: Wow. Drew: So I sometimes struggle with--I don’t want to say white folks making money [inaudible], but there’s a little bit of a--call it, like, the ally industrial complex thing where--and we white folk love education for education’s sake, and I myself am guilty of this, right? So there’s a period where I was like, “Oh, my gosh. I want to learn and tell everyone else, and I want to share this thing, and I’m gonna share that,” and even on my own podcast I’ve asked, “Whose benefit is this for? Is this really--what’s this doing?” But I think Amy’s doing, you know, like, legitimate work within the corporate structure, but I struggle a little bit with white folk becoming experts in some regard on anti-racism, inequity diversity, whatever you want to call it, and then profiting. You know, call it, like, the [ten wives?] syndrome, and that’s a real privileged place for me to come from. I have a--as you introduced, I have a normal day job. I do well, I get paid. I provide. You know, I’m in sales. I bring in a lot of value, and so I can say the things that I do I don’t need to make money with it, but that’s certainly not the case for most folks. It’s a capitalistic world. You gotta make a living, but I agree with what Amy said in terms of white folk having to really sort of be responsible for dismantling systems of oppression. And that maybe was the other--sometimes I struggle with the education for education’s sake ‘cause there’s often that last step. You know, how does that lead to--and I would ask Amy. I think you asked a lot of really pointed--and I was almost, like, worried. I was like, “God, Zach asked, like, some tough questions. I hope I’m prepared.” Zach: [laughs] Drew: But where does the work that any of us do lead to action in terms of dismantling systems of supremacy? And that’s, you know--and I ask that to myself and I don’t always have the answer. That might have been where I was left wanting. Zach: No, I hear you, and I’m curious actually--you know, what do you think about the term “ally?” Like, what do you think about that term? ‘Cause I know it’s a loaded word, right? And a lot of people have various feelings about it. I’m curious of how you feel about that word. Drew: I don’t like it. I don’t use it. I find it self-referential. If someone used it in regards to me I’m not gonna, like, be mad about it. I understand it more as a verb than as a noun, but I think a lot of people like it as a noun. And I just think the bar for what we--and even, you know, listening to the podcast, and you’ve got Amy, and you’ve got me on, and I’m thinking, “Well, why?” You know, “Why?” I’ve got a Twitter handle, VeryWhiteGuy. I’ve said a few things. I think because I’m white, you know, people give me--my voice has a little bit more, quote-unquote, cachet as an anti-racist individual. There’s not as many white dudes being actively anti-racist, but ally to me is just--the bar is so low. It’s so low. Like, my wife tells the joke, like, “Two allies walked into a bar… ‘cause it’s just so low,” and that works for any--you know, male feminists walk into a bar… ‘cause the bar was set so low.” So I don’t really like it. I don’t often use it, but if someone used it, fine. I think it also--it, to me, has this sort of connotation of, like, finality, right? Like, “Oh, I’m an ally! And, you know, I’m done.” Kinda like [inaudible], you know, more so than just sort of saying you’re an ally or just one person saying you’re an ally. You know, like, it’s really what have I done, what are my actions, more than what label, you know? Zach: No, absolutely. I’m curious, right? So we talked about--in the intro I talked a little bit about your VP role in sales, and you’ve alluded to the fact that, you know, you do well in the corporate space. I’m curious, before Interracial Jawn, which we’re gonna get to in a minute, can you talk to me about how you demonstrated or how you practiced anti-racist behaviors in the workplace? And I ask because when I look at your Twitter feed--VeryWhiteGuy, check him out, y’all. VeryWhiteGuy. The theme of your language is all about intentionality and action, and you really alluded to it just now when you talked about the term allyship and the concept of allyship. So I’m curious, what actions were you taking before you had the platform of Interracial Jawn to really demonstrate--and I won’t say allyship, but--support, you know, for people of color? Drew: That’s a good question, and I don’t know if I’ve always succeeded, you know? I think, as a white anti-racist individual, it’s a journey from, you know, indoctrinated to doing less harm, and there’s no terminal. It’s not like, “Oh, I’m finished.” I’m just trying to do less harm, and there’s steps forward and steps back, and certainly there’s been jobs and work and opportunities that I’ve missed, I’m sure. You know, I think the--when I think of allyship, right? And again, I should give a lot of credence to my wife, Leslie Mac. I’ve been married to her for 15 years, so a lot of this may be framing her language as coming from my learning from her [inaudible], but shifting dollars and resources, you know? I think--my wife always says that marginalized folks in communities, they know what they need and they know how to solve their problems. They just need, you know, access, dollars, resources. So I try to do that, and I don’t always have--you know, have, like, hiring authority at every job I’ve been at. I don’t have the ability to say who does what, who gets on what committee, but where I do have some say--so there’s an event I produce, and there’s speakers, and we get folks online to watch it, and maybe thousands of people watch it, but I was really proud that we had--and in the language or translation [inaudible], there’s a lot of women. It tends to be heavily represented on the women’s side and relatively on the Latina side, but I had mostly women of color, I think three or four black women as panelists and speakers. Those are active decisions on my part. I have a platform and an ability. If I’m gonna be compensating individuals, I’d rather it be women, black women. I’m gonna expose folks, thousands of folks who are gonna be watching these panelists. I don’t want it to be all white men. I had another job where I did have some hiring authority, and I would--you know, I was proud of the fact that I hired a few black candidates that did really well and stayed on, but really just shifting power and resources, you know? That could be you’re in a--I heard your guest Amy, and you were talking about this, you know, that women or a black person might say something, and five minutes later a white person says the same thing and it’s like, “Oh, my God! The white person’s a genius!” Zach: Right. [laughs] Drew: You know? Say something. Stand up. You know, support. You know, in different places they call it I think progressive stack, so I’ve done that in meetings. You know, “Hey, we haven’t heard from her.” You know, “This person hasn’t spoken in a while.” I had a job interview--and I think, again, I talk about action because there should be risk, and that’s why I sometimes question when white folks are making money educating other white folks on how to be better. That just sort of rubs me the wrong way, but in terms of taking risks and doing things, I’ve had vendors and interviews where I’ve asked, you know, “How many black people do you have on staff? How diverse is your--what’s your corporate culture like?” And that doesn’t always go well, you know? That doesn’t--I don’t always have the answers I want to hear, you know? But I would say what have I done? I tried to just be better. I tried to be a better individual and amplify and make sure marginalized folks are--I think Amy even said it. If they’re not in the room, do what you can to make sure their voices are represented, and try to get them in the room, and just, everywhere you can, shift power and resources. Zach: And it’s funny that you’d say that because, you know, even when I think about Living Corporate, right? So, like, we’re a startup, you know? And I think about--when you talk about just power and resources, it’s like--there are a lot of things that we want to do, and there are things that we have planned in the future, and we have all these plans and, like, the main barrier at this point, Drew--and not even barrier, but the thing that would accelerate those things is just [break?] it. Like, we don’t need a bunch of people telling us what to do. Of course we take--you know, we’ll take feedback and coaching and all that kind of stuff, but my point is, you know, it’s the resources. Like, we need the resources, and so I think that that applies to your wife Leslie’s point. It applies across the board. Like, plenty of black folks, we have--and just people of color in general, marginalized people. There’s plenty of visionaries and things like that, but because of the way that things are set up structurally and have been set up historically and systemically, the resources create a barrier. So I’m curious, right? You know, we talked a little bit about Interracial Jawn in your intro, but can you talk more about it, its origin, and what it aims to achieve? Drew: Yeah, and you said you were gonna ask me that, and I kinda had to think ‘cause it was sort of--we’ve been married now for over 15 years, and we’ve been together quite a bit, and it’s strange that our podcast is called the Interracial Jawn because I don’t think we think of ourselves interracially often. Like, I don’t think that defines us so much, but, I mean, she’s a black woman, and she works in liberation organizing. So I guess that is--you know, it’s a part of our existence, but I don’t think we think of it very often, but when we made the podcast we were--at the time we lived in Philadelphia, and we lived there for a decade, and jawn is just sort of like an adjective that’s used for anything and everything. Zach: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. [laughs] It’s made its way down to Houston too. We say it down here from time to time. I do anyway. Drew: Sweet. I didn’t know that. I guess it’s like John, J-O-H-N, or joint. Some people would use it sort of [inaudible], but so we called it the Interracial Jawn, and we don’t I even think talk that much about us being interracial, but we talk about a lot of different politics, and we just started a podcast ‘cause we wanted to do it, and we talked a lot, and we’d sit around and just, you know, by ourselves chit-chatting. We said, “You know, let’s record it. If somebody listens, all right, cool,” and for a bit it was really just a lab--and it still is a labor of love. You do a podcast and it’s not exactly a millionaire’s [inaudible], but we did it, and people listened and responded and subscribed, and we said, “Okay, we’ll keep doing it.” So we enjoy it, but it’s really just sort of--it’s more for us and just sort of time to unwind and chit-chat and connect and talk about the news and stuff that’s going on. Zach: That’s really cool, man, you know? And shout out to Leslie. I think it’s amazing that, you know, at every point and turn in this conversation, you know, you’ve referenced something that your wife has told you, right? So, like, shout out to black women in general. Sound Man, go ahead and put them air horns in here just for black women. For Leslie for sure, but then black women in general. [Sound Man comes through with it] Zach: So I’m curious, what advice, right? Now, you talked about--you said, you know, for you, the way that you practice, again for the lack of a better word, allyship in the corporate space is by just being better, but what advice or resources would you point white men to, in corporate America, to be better for everybody else? Drew: That’s a good question, and I don’t know the answer to that. Maybe--you referenced black women, and Twitter’s been a great resource. It’s relatively free. Certainly be aware that you’re consuming folks, and try to drop a dollar on their PayPal, Cash.me, or Patreon if they have it. But yeah, there’s been--I would say just about everything I know when it comes to--I was thinking again. I said I don’t like white folk being experts on race, and [if someone asks?] me I say, “No, I’m not an expert on race.” You know, [I’ve got the?] Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 Hour theory. You know, you’ve lived your entire life as a black individual in a white supremacist society. That’s more than 10,000 hours. You’re [inaudible] an expert. When you say, “Hey, that’s racist, so listen and believe black folk, amplify black folk,” but, you know, I’m not an expert on that at all. The only thing I know is sort of my journey on how I’ve sort of learned to be less harmful I guess, and this is all stuff that’s on Twitter and smarter, you know, usually black women, like you said, have written about this, but it took me a while to just sort of learn not just what people are saying but to process it a little bit differently. So [inaudible] if you’ve been this work at all for even a minute and you’re a white dude, you’ve heard “Shut up.” You know? “Sit down. Shut up. Be quiet. Don’t take up space,” and I knew that. Enough people had said it to me that I’d go to--you know, when we lived in Philadelphia there was a great group that I think is still around, REAL Justice Philadelphia. But so we’d go to meetings. There’s hundreds of people there, and of course I’m not gonna say a word. I’m gonna sit down. I’m not gonna say anything and be quiet, and I’ve been to many of these meetings, and again, I understand fundamentally to be quiet and not take up space, but my mind would keep kind of rolling and think, “Oh, what about this? What about that? What about this?” And there might have been--I can’t remember the exact instance, but there’s finally something where, again, my wife made fun of me like, “Okay, very white guy.” Like, “They don’t need your help.” You know? [inaudible]. And then it was like--you know, joking and sarcastic, but I was like, “Oh, my God.” Like, “She’s really right.” So the concept of sit down and be quiet, don’t take up space, I understood it differently over a period of time. My different understanding was “Oh, I’m a neophyte. I don’t really know anything. I need to really just sit down and absorb and really process,” and if I’m thinking of things--and that’s, again, as a white dude, the world has told me, as a white man, my opinion is valued. It’s needed. It’s necessary. My two cents are desired, and I can solve it. And yeah, it’s about, you know, allyship in the corporate world, [inaudible]. I remember--not, like, embarrassed, but I’ve been in a room full of people and pounded my fist on the desk and raised my voice and gotten what I wanted and things done, and that modality is, like, a sock that you’ve worn your whole life, a glove that fits seamlessly. It’s just real easy, so to not be a cisgendered heterosexual white male that raises his voice and, you know, reverts to Angry White Dude to get what he wants, that takes vigilance, you know? It’s kind of like actively not trying to be a horrible person. You just--you slip into it so easily. So I would say, as a white man, just be aware, you know? Understand. Like, just understand conditioned fragility and then defensiveness, you know? I think it’s a lot easier. Understand how to apologize. Know that you’re gonna mess up, and be prepared. I’ve messed up plenty, and not--yeah, I’m [trying?] “Don’t mess up.” [laughs] Don’t [inaudible], but, like, many people are willing to forgive and stay in community with me after a mistake, but very few would be willing to remain in community if I made a mistake and then spent an hour being defensive and fragile about it, you know? Like, “I didn’t mean it that way. I’m so sorry. I wasn’t trying to be racist.” So, like, I would just say to other, you know, especially white dudes, we’re gonna mess up, you know? The world has catered to us for a long time, so sit down, listen, be quiet, and when you mess up, you know, acknowledge it. Accept it. Know how to apologize. “I’m sorry. I’ll do better.” That goes a long way. Those three little things will get you really far. Zach: Man, you ain’t lyin’, because I have--you know, I have some white male friends, and when they practice those things they just apologize--and we’re friends. Like, they’re some of my closest friends, right? And because they practice those behaviors that you’re talking about we continue to be friends, and actually our relationship gets better after every mess up, and, you know, I’m there with you. I’m curious, you know, before we wrap, do you have any shout outs or any parting words? This has been a dope conversation. I want to make sure anything else you’d like to say or anybody you’d like to thank or just shout out in general, man. Drew: Ah, thank you for this opportunity and having me on the show. I appreciate it. As I said, the real deal in the household is my wife, Leslie Mac, and she’s on Twitter. You can follow her @LeslieMac. She’s got a Patreon, so you can support her that way, and we’ve got a podcast, Interracial Jawn, and that’s J-A-W-N. We don’t tweet much, but we’d love to have you listen to the show and follow us. But to your last point, let me--my little follow-up to your comment, I really--I have individuals in my life that I’m accountable to, both white and black, and when I mess up and they say, “Hey, you know what, this came off wrong,” or “I think there’s [inaudible] a certain way,” man, that’s like a gift, you know? Not only have I learned not to get fragile and defensive about it, but after I think, like, “Wow, they care enough about me as a person that they’re gonna A. let me know and B. give me an opportunity to do better,” right? Like, you know, if I really don’t like you and you mess up, I’m gonna be like, “Get out of here. Whatever,” but if [inaudible] it’s like, “Hey, you know what? What you did--let me pull you aside and really kind of--” So if you--when you get called in, called out, whichever it is, accept it as a gift because it really is. Honest to goodness, it really, truly is. It’s a gift to be able to learn how to be a better person, and not enough people are willing to receive that gift in the proper way. So be better, white dudes. Me included. Zach: [laughs] Man, this has been awesome. Look, that does it for us, guys. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Make sure to follow us on Instagram @LivingCorporate, Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through www.living-corporate.com. Check us out on Patreon @LivingCorporate. If you have a question you’d like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. This has been Zach, and you’ve been talking to Drew, A.K.A. @VeryWhiteGuy. Peace. Latricia: Living Corporate is a podcast by Living Corporate, LLC. Our logo was designed by David Dawkins. Our theme music was produced by Ken Brown. Additional music production by Antoine Franklin from Musical Elevation. Post-production is handled by Jeremy Jackson. Got a topic suggestion? Email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You can find us online on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and living-corporate.com. Thanks for listening. Stay tuned.

Create the culture, add a great service, and you have a recipe for success. In this episode of The ROI Podcast, listen to Counterpart's Chief Strategy Officer, Drew Linn, on how their culture and innovation has helped them become one of the most successful software development companies in Indianapolis. ---- Do you have a question? Looking to get help on a business decision? Know a great guest for our show? Email roipod@iupui.edu so we can help your organization make better business decisions. ---- Ready to take your next step? Check out if a Kelley MBA is right for you: https://bit.ly/3m2G6D5 ---- Show Notes: (The ROI Podcast Music) Shane: Welcome in, everyone to another episode of The ROI Podcast presented by the Indiana University Kelley School of Business on the IUPUI campus in downtown Indianapolis. I'm your host, Shane Simmons. I've got the associate dean of academic programs for the Kelley School, Phil Powell, with me once again – and today, we're going to jump into company culture – and the critical role it plays to innovation. Phil: You're right and here is the irony. In a technology company, we think the fundamental driver of value is things like artificial intelligence, the coding, the electronic circuity, but it's not. In the end, it's people, just like in any other organization. And what motivated people is the culture that they work in.  Shane: Today – you're going here from Drew Linn, chief strategy officer at Counterpart – a custom software development firm based in Indianapolis. Phil: And what Counterpart does is they help organizations around the state to innovate… That's their job – and software is that vehicle. Drew: There are a couple different things: companies need to innovate, and software can help make that happen very quickly. Phil: But as the Chief Strategy Officer at Counterpart, Drew says the company has been so successful throughout its existence because of the culture it has created. It's a tech company – and as we know – tech companies are really disrupting the traditional work environment – and that works for Counterpart which helps them deliver a better product. And that starts with the right team. Drew: The first is we've got to have the right team: personalities aren't all the same, but we all rally around a common goal - some of us are closer than others, but we all have a mutual respect for each other. So the members of the team are a challenge, and what's interesting is we have several that are founder-level age, [who are] a great resource and they all spend time mentoring, and then we have this new, younger, under-30 group that looks at things differently but mesh well. Phil: The right people are in place. There's a mix of age groups which bring experience and new ways of looking at projects, issues, and solutions. And one of the ways they're able to keep up that culture that works for them is through flexible work hours – which Drew says only enhances the quality of work they produce. Drew: You've got to make sure that the dynamics, the chemistry that's in our environment is solid. We also not only check the time but other than client meetings, you can work from anywhere you want. We're about to move into a brand new office that we hope will create that environment that would encourage the collaboration and the time together, but if you want to work from home, because that's what works for you -- in fact, we have a couple that comes in once every week. Dealing with that dynamic, it's hard to build relationships when you aren't together. What we're trying to do is allow each individual to, Yes, whether it's how much they're going to deliver to this client every week, it gets down to when you're hired, you're just given a budget, and you go buy whatever technology you want. Then every two years you get another allotment to go upgrade it or replace it, and then it's yours. It's how you want to do it - we try to embrace the personality because not everybody's the same. I'm typically in the office around 8 until late, and we've got some that come in at 11, and then they work until 7, 8, or 9. Phil: Shane, we're starting to see this type of environment more and more – the freedom to work from home or on your own schedule, but making the employees hold themselves accountable to completing their projects. And Drew says that's a big selling point and why people want to work for them. Drew: One of the biggest things has been just embracing the talents, strengths, and expertise of the members on your team, and not trying to control them - you hired that person, you brought them in to do a responsibility on your team, let him/her do it. The culture is really what I'm talking about, you've got a team that's willing to do what you need them to do, and you want them to do it well, otherwise, with us being so close to our team and community, it's going to go around town and that's not going to be helpful with your business model. Phil: We've flexible work hours, letting the employees manage themselves and their areas, and bringing in a mix of people from different age groups and backgrounds – but Drew says just as important as all those factors are transparency. And we've seen this with other companies we've interviewed like One Click Ventures in Greenwood – and what Drew said about transparency was really interesting to hear. Drew: Like I said earlier, transparency on all levels [is important], the company does well if everybody knows how it's doing. You can be running a marathon, but if you don't realize you're going to end halfway through because you're out of energy, you're not going to survive. What we've done is not only on the financial transparency from the salary-standpoint, where everybody can have access to know what everybody's making, it's also on the company performance. Not only do we do fully transparency P&L balance sheet performance sessions every week, over-arching all of this, we also have an employee profit-sharing program. Everybody benefits this quarter because we invested [and] brought on a couple new people - we also chose to invest in one particular client project that won't have profit-sharing. Now second and third quarter, we're primed for significant profit-sharing, so everybody's aware of what's going on and where the money's being spent, it just brings you a sense of a common goal. We understand what sacrifices are going to happen - some get involved in all of it, some don't, I think that's been a real motivator to keep us all aligned. And it's not a money thing, it's also the impact thing. Phil: Impact – remember when we discussed social impact investing in last week's episode? We're seeing this reoccurring theme. More companies are considering the impact their making on the community, in the case for Counterpart, helping other companies innovate and grow, while having a positive impact on their employees and being completely fair and transparent with them. And Drew says their main goal is community impact: (Closing Music) Drew: I know that sounds cliché, but you know, we're in this community together - we can do great things, but if the community around us isn't thriving and surviving, then we're not going to thrive very long. (ROI Podcast Music) Shane: Close out the podcast

Drew Covi: @drewcovi | about.me Show Notes: 01:04 - Honeywell User Experience (HUE) 05:00 - Deliverables 06:55 - Being a “Devsigner” 17:26 - Flash and Leading to Unique Skills 30:00 - Advice for People Straddling Roles 35:27 - Leveraging Design and Development Skills Together 39:41 - Embracing the Hardware Element 42:05 - Why the “Devsigner”? Resources: AOLpress CSS Beauty CSS Zen Garden Contribute Crave Transcript: CHARLES: Hello, everybody and welcome to The Frontside Podcast, Episode #76. My name is Charles Lowell. I'm a developer here at The Frontside and your podcast host-in-training. With me is Elrick Ryan, also a developer at The Frontside. Hello. ELRICK: Hey, what's going on? CHARLES: Not much. Are you excited about today's topic? ELRICK: Very excited. CHARLES: Yeah. You got a personal stake in it because today, we have in the room, not only you but also two developers who are also designers or designers who are also developers. Our guest today is actually the first person who fit this description that I ever worked with. It was a great experience, a great collaboration and his name is Drew Covi. Drew is a senior supervisor of product design at HUE Studios in Golden Valley, Minnesota. DREW: Howdy. How are you doing? CHARLES: Good. Thanks for joining us. Now, you're going to have to explain to us two things, one, what is a super senior product designer and let's start off talking about HUE first. What exactly is HUE because I think it's a cool organization? DREW: I'm working with four people and I'm working on all sorts of brand new ideas. I think the greatest opportunity that I've had in my career at this company, Honeywell is just working with physical product and the digital space. It's a unique opportunity. Not all companies focus on both so it's really been a learning experience for me and working with a great group of creative individuals is also been a real privilege. They say that at the end of the day, the most important thing is other people that you work with and really the entire team here has been fantastic in welcoming me and letting me explore and grow as a developer and as a designer. It's been great so far. CHARLES: Fantastic. Working with that group was absolutely wonderful. What does HUE stand for? DREW: HUE is Honeywell User Experience. Our previous CEO, Dave Cote often called it 'huey' but it's just HUE, without the Jersey accent. I'm going to probably misrepresent but we have over eight to 10 studios throughout the world. Each one focuses on different businesses for the most part. The one here in Golden Valley tends to focus on homes and buildings technologies. The studio out of Seattle, actually tends to focus on, again I'm going to get the acronym wrong here but it's essentially worker safety in industrial safety. CHARLES: What is it that you all do at HUE? DREW: What we do here at the studio here in Golden Valley is we support various businesses throughout the homes and buildings technology space. About fall of last year, Honeywell went through a bit of a shift in their business and they used to do all automation control solutions. Last fall essentially, we saw that one large business that was headquartered and based out of Golden Valley, break into two areas of more direct focus. Out of Seattle, we have folks working on, I think I mentioned before but Seattle works on sensing and productivity solutions. We focus on homes and building space so we're both providing upfront research to understand what the customer needs. We're actually creating everything from very rough user flows to final UIs and we're also working with industrial designers to create final products. Those industrial designers work very closely with engineering. Honeywell has a long reputation of very strong engineering when it comes to the hardware space. We've prided ourselves on excellent instruments and excellent performance. One thing that very few people understand is that we don't just do thermostats. We're in the business of turbos. We're creating the turbos for your car. We're creating all sorts of HVAC equipment. We're also handling various safety equipment. All of these items need designing, not just for end users and consumers but they also need designing for the workers in the field. If we make a product that is more efficient, easier to use and in some cases, more attractive, not only it does lead to more sales, it leads to more efficient work forces that can work quicker essentially. You could get up on a roof and get off in record time. We're not just designing consumer products. We're actually focused on a lot of other items as well, with oftentimes very large returns on investment. CHARLES: In the work that you do and HUE does in general, it sounds like there might be a large software component. Digital design is kind of we know in the web space but then also a lot of industrial design of just how does this thing going to look, how is it going to feel, how is it going to persist, how durable is it going to be, how is it going to withstand usage. Would you get involved in that process? DREW: Usually, the entire organization gets involved with the process very early on. One of the other shifts that happen in the fall as we get involved less in the production and more on the actual marketing side, like marketing deciding what's going to be built. We're actually really at the beginning and understanding what problems need to be solved at first. As far as my practice and my skill set, we do get involved with all that discovery phase work but when it comes to actual deliverables, we oftentimes see our deliverables around the actual creation of understanding user interactions. We will take research from our user research in OVOC, which is an acronym for Observational Voice of the Customer and we'll take those learnings and translate them into whatever solution we decide to build as a team. My output is going to look like a user flow, something you build in OmniGraffle or Visio and then it can start there, which is in the physical space and then we'll actually revolve those concepts into wireframes as well. Wireframes that will then be handed off to other team members who specialize and focus on visual design. Basically, it's kind of a very hands on process from the very beginning to the very end. It's essentially just understanding everything from the physical to the digital. CHARLES: When we were working together, at least in your case, it doesn't stop there. You're actually doing a significant amount of the implementation as well. Let's explore how did you actually end up getting to that position where you were working through interactions, wireframes and workflows and then also, getting to actually build the product in the form of a complex single-page application. DREW: Sure. Absolutely. One of the components that I kind of brought here to the team was a bit of a deeper understanding of frontend web development. I'm often pulled into conversations here and there. In the case of the project that we were working on specifically, it was essentially kind of early days on that project. We had a product that was pretty old and need a lot of work and it was basically, need to be rebuilt. We hadn't seen a lot of single-page applications at that time. In my case, I actually had worked on a couple small projects in my previous job and we can get into that in a little bit, where my career path took me. But essentially, it was me trying to kind of pave the way and eventually have that work scale. It was kind of proving that it could be done, showing how it could be done and then getting other developers on board. My role here has oftentimes involved, basically becoming a liaison between our design teams and our development teams. Ultimately in this case like you mentioned, it did wind up in turning into code that ultimately got factored into production code. It was definitely a time where we were experimenting with what role we would play. I will say in full disclosure that more or less which we're trying to move towards, basically making better informed decisions but not playing as much of a role in actual production code writing. It's something that we want to help scale. I think we'll talk about that kind of role and how well it scales hopefully in a little bit here but ultimately, it kind of changed a little bit. I don't do as much code as I used to. CHARLES: Right but nevertheless, the skill is there. Don't sell yourself short. You weren't slapping together a bunch of jQuery plugins. You were standing up, basically a full stack system with a StubDeck background, then Node.JS. This is back in early days where there was a custom-build tooling. You were using CoffeeScript. There was a lot of exploration and clearly, there is a fierce curiosity which you are actually exploring and actively kind of skinning and moving into the development space, which doesn't happen until people achieve a certain level of comfort. Whether or not you're exercising those skills, I think they have served you well in terms of the things that you've been able to build but also acting in that liaison and understanding what's possible and stuff like that. Obviously, once I met you, you were already there. I'm curious in exploring that journey of coming up the design ladder but also coming up the development ladder too. Maybe we can talk about each one separately and then see how they intertwine. Let's start with the design side. How did you get into that? DREW: I can take you way, way back. I love to talk more about this in a little bit but I think we, as a generation, are kind of very unique in that. We were raised in the birth of the internet. Some of us are old enough to remember the early dial up days and I certainly was one of those. I grew up basically obsessed with drawing and art and painting. I was a designer and artist raised by an engineer, essentially. My dad didn't really have a lot of opportunities to explore his creative side to basically make a living. I want to say that although graphic design existed to a certain extent, there wasn't really the same blend of engineering skills required so he decided to take the tack of I'm going to become an engineer so I was raised in a household where he was building everything but he was also a talented artist. As a kid, I basically did a lot of advanced art classes. I'm kind of a nerd, pretty much a huge nerd. I dropped my entire tenure as a high school student. It was also kind of dawn of video games as well so we had computers coming of age. We had video games coming of age so I was raised looking at digital art effectively, 8-bit, super accessible. It's kind of so early on that it was something that I could actually fathom getting into and creating on my own. I never got to creating any games but I will say that by my late high school years, I was using a tool called AOLpress. For anybody who has ever heard of that, congratulations. You're one of the few. CHARLES: I've never heard of that. AOLpress, we're going to have to link to that in the show notes. ELRICK: I've never heard of that either. DREW: It's awesome. It's got a Wikipedia page. It's got hieroglyphs and stuff. They really went all out on this product. It's basically the precursor to the Dreamweaver. It was a very, very WYSIWYG. I'm sure you've heard of Microsoft FrontPage, maybe. It was basically a precursor to FrontPage, I would say. Same thing, those are the days of framesets and all of that. I was a kid in scouting at the time and I wanted to build a web page for the troops so I built one and put it out there. I kind of remember that moment where I was like, "I'm going to write something and put it on the internet and anybody can see it." That whole experience was just super exciting. I know that if anybody's following Kickstarter, there's one that was started called 'What Comes Next Is the Future.' It was made by Matt Braun and Matt Griffin and it really explored the birth of the web. I would recommend it on your listeners to want to really dive deep if you didn't live through it, check it out. It's a great, great film. All the regulars are there as you'd expect. Zeldman on there, talking about it amongst others. But if it were for the web, I don't know that I would be who I am or where I am today, just because it's such a unique platform. It's so open. It's so readily available. There's no barriers. I would say that I was just an arts student in high school that picked up AOLpress and then got addicted to the web. From there, it was kind of off to the races. In fact, I didn't even know that I could make a living as a graphic designer until late high school. I decided that I wanted to go to school for graphic design, went a year at the University of Minnesota-Twin Cities and at that point in time, it was pretty much all print design and then Flash. Flash took over in my second year and at that point in time, it was Flash and framesets and tables. There was no CSS for layout. It's very early days. It sounds like you might know what I'm talking about. Have you been there? ELRICK: Yeah. You know, they say everyone in the world has like a twin and I'm like, "Drew is like my technology twin." DREW: Yeah. When we were raised in that time and we had to hack it with framesets and whatever tool -- FrontPage or AOLpress -- you basically, from very early days, realized that you had to force this stuff to happen. It was not easy. There was no documentation and where there was documentation, you were grateful to have it. I remember when I was, probably just about to graduate and if I look back at my portfolio piece, it was definitely still Flash. It was Timeline-based Flash. I also think that in many ways the way the web evolved was perfect. As a designer, I was very comfortable in the Timeline tool. Before ActionScript 3.0 and before they went on object-oriented on us, it was super accessible. You could add little bits of code here and there and create animations. It kind of got you hooked. Then suddenly, I found myself needing to create full screen Flash applications and needing to actually write code. I actually having to say, "If I want this Flash experience to scale, then I need to calculate where things go. I can't just X-Y coordinate and done," so that's where I jumped off and started getting into CSS. CSS was kind of early days as well. Again, this is before iPhone. This is like people were using CSS but people didn't really think it was that important. It was actually kind of discouraged because everybody in the world was using Internet Explorer and why would you need to know CSS. It was unreliable for different browsers and Internet Explorer was the worst. I remember sitting in a Dreamweaver conference, when it was Macromedia had a conference and they showed a webpage and then they hit the print button and they said, "Does anybody here know how this happened?" because the layout had changed, everything looked better and different. It was perfect for print. I remember my hand shot up because they was like, "Nobody was really familiar yet with that print style sheets?" Incidentally, I don't think that people still are familiar with print style sheets but it was a time when finally people were starting to understand that style sheets were more than just a layout tool. You could change them for all these different form, factors and all these different platforms. It was a fun time to be coming up in this age. CHARLES: It sounds like one, CSS and two, Flash were actually kind of gateway drugs into the development world? DREW: Absolutely. CHARLES: We still have CSS, clearly but do you feel like Flash, despite what some people might think about it, it was a full virtual machine that was running. You could code on it with ActionScript. It's kind of like the JVM but only for running inside the browser. Do you feel like designers might not have that gateway available to them anymore or maybe is the web just as big of a gateway to move into that? DREW: Yeah, for sure. I certainly think, beyond a doubt that had it not been for Flash, we would see a lot less creativity in the space. I say that only because at the time, if we had just gone from tables and tried to slowly evolve things, we'd have a much different feel, I believe. Certainly, it's a gateway drug. We'll be in a different web today without it. Is it still required? Are there any equivalents? I've seen a number of drag and drop web UI on the web tools out there and many of them claim to create production quality code. It's certainly possible to get there without Flash. I think, it's certainly its time has passed but we do see tools like Sketch for instance. These are all very much screen-based design tools that seem to leverage a lot of the same web styles and the web approaches. I think we definitely have the tools there to replace Flash. But I think from my perspective, it would be very interesting to go back and imagine, would we have immersive full screen web experiences without that Flash? CHARLES: Yeah. I remember it being very much a topic of conversation, certainly at the beginning of each project or when you were going to implement a feature is, "Are we going to do this using Flash? Are we trying to do this with native HTML? Are we going to use EGADS or Java applet?" ELRICK: Oh, man. Java applets. CHARLES: That was a conversation that was had before the web eventually went out but I think when it was, everything was very, very static. I do think that Flash definitely set the expectation higher and forced the web to evolve so that it could be the natural choice in those conversations. ELRICK: The time when Flash was around, I called it the 'golden age of user interface' because you can literally build any user experience, any user interface with Flash that you could dream up. There was no limitations creatively in the world of Flash. Nowadays, we're kind of limited without box model but it's getting better year-by-year. DREW: It's interesting to me because before Flash really died out, we had these... Let's put it this way. I feel as though, for a long time the web was a very much like a poster site kind of approach. You would have tools that were pretty rough on the eyes, pretty hard to use and then like for certain films, you have these very high budget, fully immersive Flash experiences. For a blip, that did actually translate at some point into Canvas-based and then Three.JS, like 3D WebGL-based experiences in native HTML but I don't see a whole lot of that anymore. It seems as though, it kind of settled down and in many ways, I would say killing Flash kind of evolved the web from more of a presentational platform to more of a usability first platform. It was a bit of a double-edged sword. You could build anything you want like you said but there wasn't a framework to it. It wasn't really responsive and then certainly, when Steve Jobs decided he wasn't going to Flash an iPhone, that was the end of it. Essentially now, we have -- ELRICK: Steve Job dropped the hammer. CHARLES: That was the memo that was heard around the world, right? DREW: Yeah. CHARLES: I just realized that was like 10 years ago. DREW: Yeah, they're celebrating the anniversary for the last couple of months here. It's been a huge deal. CHARLES: There's probably listeners that never heard that memo but it's definitely worth a read. The memo obviously, that you guys are referring to is when Steve Jobs basically said that Flash would not be on iPhone or iPad, not now, not ever. That was the end of it. DREW: People often forget too that when it was first launched, there was no app store. He basically said point blank, "Anything you need to do on this phone, you should be able to do using the web, using native web coding," and Safari at that point in time is really paving the way to bringing those native APIs into the web. You had geolocation through web. In many ways, that too is a huge gateway drug. Suddenly, you start looking at the web, not as just like, "I could use this as a poster site or as an informational site or a new site. I can actually use this to get things done." They're actually treating this platform as a first-class citizen. That to me was super exciting. I don't know if it gets as much attention anymore in the days of Swift and the App Store but I will say that if your listeners do get a chance to check out the show I mentioned earlier, 'What Comes Next Is the Future,' they even dive deep into just how limiting the app store experience can be. At least with the web, you can create whatever you want to create and people seemed to go that you URL and install on their home screen. This is a feature that nobody uses from what I've seen but if you bookmark a web app on your home screen, you can have an icon, you can have a loading screen, you can have all this stuff and nobody really uses it for whatever reason. CHARLES: I think it's the install, it's getting the knowledge about the fact that you can do that. It's not widely disseminated. ELRICK: Yeah, I think its capabilities starting to come up now with people making progressive web apps. They're starting to utilize that being able to put icons on people screens and loading screen and splash and etcetera. CHARLES: Flash really was kind of the gateway into the development world. I'm curious what opportunities do you feel opened up as you started taking on more web technologies, more JavaScript, more CSS and mixing that with the design that you were doing? What unique skills/superpowers do you think that gave you, that made you, that helped you at that stage in your career? DREW: Yeah, for better or worse, it really was the opportunity to get a job first of all. I know that the job market has been in all sorts of flux in the last couple of decades but I would say 12 years ago, in 2005 when I was entering the workforce, graphic design was not necessarily a hot field. I can say with relative certainty that the majority of the people I graduate with, didn't necessarily make their way into graphic design as a profession. I would say probably maybe 30% to 40% actually wound up following their degrees. For the obvious reason at that time, we were starting to see digital replace print. It meant that I was able to get a job for one. It wasn't a dream job necessarily but I was basically a one-stop-shop. I was designing and developing websites as working for a company but in many ways, shapes and forms, I was kind of freelancing as things were. I had a very direct relationship with the clients that I worked with. It was basically churning out websites. If I recall correctly at the time the company wanted to essentially create a Domino's Pizza of the web where we could use CSS to essentially build the actual HTML once and then restyle it. This is actually was a time when a site called CSS Beauty was just coming of age, I think the site still exists but back then, if you want the CSS Beauty, it's big thing was you have one website and people could upload their own CSS and completely change the layout, completely change the look. CHARLES: Are you talking about CSS Zen Garden? DREW: Maybe that was it. There's two of them. CHARLES: I remember that one. DREW: CSS Zen Garden was one of them and I think CSS beauty was a clone maybe of Zen Garden for sure. Maybe you're right, Zen Garden was the one where you actually had a website and Beauty was just showcasing certain CSS sites. I think you're right. Zen Garden was the one. When they saw that, they're like, "Wow, business opportunity. We can build a whole site." We were using something called 'Cold Fusion' and... Oh, it will escape me now. I think it was called 'Contribute.' There's a product called 'Contribute' that Macromedia come up with that worked on Cold Fusion. It was basically a WordPress. You basically set up editable regions, you basically code the site once in that regard in the backend coding and then just rework CSS to create multiple sites. Actually, the opportunity to open up for me, that job was very squarely-focused around the benefits of leveraging CSS. Eventually, that grew tiring. I kind of wanted to get into the actual marketing and advertising space. From there, I started to just jump to the next job. I worked for a very, very small marketing agency. It was called 'Vetta-Zelo' at that time and we focused on lots more Flash, a little bit of CSS websites but mostly Flash Experiences and they actually used Flash in a lot of kiosks and physical spaces. I started to jump into that, understanding PHP, understanding databases because we would do things like we would install Flash Experience on little portable tablets that would then sync up survey responses to a web URL that it would then dump it into a database. About that time, I was always trying to teach myself how to get really deep into the backend of the stack. CHARLES: That was just to make sure that these Flash sites that you're developing would be scalable and more robust? Was that the natural next layer to dig down? DREW: Absolutely. At the end of the day, we wanted to have immersive Flash experiences and we wanted to have the content easy to update. I would build these really crude backend with text areas and they would update a database and then the Flash Experience would pull that in as content. In that way, we didn't have to go in and re-publish the Flash every time, essentially. It was a much more streamlined process. I think we even gave some of our clients the keys, gave them a login and password and they could change certain things. There's an outfit around here called 'Crave.' They are a restaurant in town and we built the website for them -- one of the earlier websites. When you have to do things like update times and menus and things like that, it became pretty essential to having some sort of a CMS behind it. It was all based on necessity, in other words. What you said is absolutely true. We had to evolve what we learned and I had to push what I did to lever on different needs. Throughout my career, I've been the guy who does web and design. One of the things about that is it's kind of a lonely place to be and find yourself in creative agencies, where the majority of skill sets are not in development and trying to explain what's going on or make commitments on timelines and deliver on them. Whenever a bug shows up, it's never really fully understood. It's also a challenge to manage expectations, certainly as a young professional at that point. CHARLES: Yeah, I would say, what would be some advice you would give to somebody who is straddling these roles at that early career stage where they're maybe working for creative agency and fulfilling these two roles but most of their surroundings is towards the design end. DREW: Yeah, I would say for the most part, just be upfront. If there's anything that's unknown, be upfront about it and explain. If you are early in your development career as a designer, do your homework before you committing any commitment certainly. I think it's always better to be upfront about these things than to try to over-promise and then scramble at the end. I will say that a lot of my career has been marked with the term code 'code cowboy' as a designer and teaching myself to code. It was a disparaging term, I guess. I didn't really necessarily take it that way but I think other developers are trying to use it in that way. CHARLES: [Singing to the tune of Mammas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to Be Cowboys] Cowboys ain't easy to love and they're harder to hold... ELRICK: It's so true. DREW: You know, I'm not even embarrassed to say it because the truth of the matter is when you're a designer, you're used to just making a mess before you kind of landed on what you're done and what's right. The entire creative process is messy. I think it's inherent. If you're one of these designers turned devs and you basically just hack it until it comes together, that's kind of a natural flow from the creative process. Certainly, as you get more experienced, you want to reduce all that uncertainty and potential for error so you do learn to hone your craft, to use version control, to embrace a framework or embrace some model-view controller approach but none of that really existed in the early days of the web. I kind of came up in a time when you had to hack it. CHARLES: Well, there's a lot of learning that can happen when you're hacking and building things that are kind of ad hoc. As you go, you get to perceive firsthand the problems with them. Without perceiving those problems first, it's hard to really understand the solutions that the internet has come up with to deal with those complexities. DREW: I would say I was like a solo designer developer throughout the early years, because at 2010, I found my people in a local agency called 'Clockwork' and for the first time, I wasn't the only developer on staff. There was a whole team of developers. In fact, the shop was started as a development shop and they were making headway into the creative space and eventually, becoming full digital partners. But had it not been for my opportunities at Clockwork, I wouldn't have picked up my skill set as a backend coder. From the very beginning at Clockwork, they expected you to get your hands dirty and code and get your hands dirty in the terminal, honestly. Command line was required even in our design work. CHARLES: And this is all designers needed to be familiar with the terminal tools --? DREW: Correct. CHARLES: -- Basic coding? DREW: Yeah. Essentially, all of our work, whether it was creative or whether it was documents, were all managed in Subversion. As a part of onboarding, you basically learned how to use Subversion. There were some GUI tools for it but for the most part, it wasn't that steep of a learning curve. It was pretty easy to follow instructions and that was the second gateway drug, I would say. My first gateway drug, again was kind of coming up in the age of the web and getting into CSS and Flash. The second gateway drug was basically being required to learn command line and learning how to navigate a computer without a display. Had not been for that, I don't think my career would have taken the turns that it did. I basically got more into the IoT space. I had set up a home NAS server with Drobo FS, is what it was called at the time and it was just a really basic machine but by jumping into that, I could start to play around with UNIX and tools there. I started using home automation, playing with that and at some point in time, I made the jump from just web into the role that I play here at Honeywell, which is Internet of Things. We do a lot of Internet of Things. In fact, our latest tagline is 'the Power of Connected' so we've embraced it all the way down to our wood mark. It's becoming the new normal for most products so it's a good time to be at the center of all these different areas of expertise, to be in development, to be in IoT and to be in design. That's my path. That's my journey. I would kind of pick it up at a bunch of fortunate circumstances, honestly. ELRICK: Having these two skill sets: your design skills and your development skills, what do you believe that that gives you in terms of an advantage? Having these two skills set and being able to leverage these two? DREW: From my perspective, having both skill sets allows me to understand. I think the biggest challenge when working with large teams, particularly in this space or in any space is to really have a common level of understanding, stepping aside from a functional role and becoming more of a liaison between design development and to be honest with you, as we look beyond that, I took a three or four or five month course in business administration, actually. It was just a night class but I wanted to be able to speak to those needs as well. I think it really is becoming a translator. Serving as a translator between those items and then also being able to understand where the actual boundaries lie, there are a lot of very talented engineers and talented designers and sometimes opportunities are missed because, either timelines are pushing engineers to cut certain functionalities or certain features and there's a lot of pressure. Where we can lend a hand, where we can point to possible alternatives, I think that's where we really build cutting edge products. When we really know each domain, we can push those boundaries. That's where I'd enjoy bringing my skill set to the table. CHARLES: Yeah. I can second that. Having actually worked with you, I think one of the greatest things was the one just with the interactions that you were coming up with, were just really spot on. It wasn't ad hoc. It wasn't some -- ELRICK: Helter-skelter? CHARLES: Yeah, it wasn't helter-skelter. It wasn't some developer coming up with like, "Hey, this is what this looks like," Or, "This is some designer putting up pie in the sky stuff." It was, "I understand what's possible and I'm going to use that to design the best thing that can be possible." It made the designs very pleasant and some of them were just really fun, I think. Thinking especially like that, the hierarchical tree selector was one -- ELRICK: Yeah, that was fun. CHARLES: -- Which the implementation of that was just a joy. But then the second thing is being able to speak with you on the development challenges and really know that you understood that language. It really is being bilingual, I guess in the sense that I'm talking to you in French and you're talking to product owners in German or whatever. But because you're bilingual, the flow of information is as frictionless as possible. DREW: I will say that it was a real pleasure from our end working with your team as well because one of the trends in many businesses throughout the world today is embracing a lean and agile approach to product design development. One of the growth opportunities, I would say in any business is fully understanding how that process works, having the courage to be upfront about what can be accomplished in the time available. I think one of the other things is fully understanding those three pegs of the stool. There's always the budget, the time and then the features of any projects. I think that working with a team that understands that really changes the dynamic. I will say that it was equally a pleasure for us to work with your team because there was just a level of courage in being very forthright and very upfront about what do we need to get the job done? What has to happen? You made my job as a translator, essentially. CHARLES: We aim to please. ELRICK: Absolutely. DREW: Absolutely. The latest evolution of kind of where my career has taken us in the company is embracing the hardware element. We've talked a bit about the web and then how that evolved and then having to get comfortable of the command line and where that took place. I've always wanted to build. I've loved designing but I always want to build it and I want to put it out there. In the last six months actually, I finally decided that I would pull the Band-Aid off and jump into soldering hardware, writing what code I could and building actual physical hardware prototypes. I think the next step for anybody who likes to follow this maker trajectory, for a creative looking to become a maker or a developer looking to get into creative is just not stopping. There's always something there and we're also fortunate to live in a time when I can go on at Adafruit, pick up a kit of parts for under $100 and build something that's completely new. Then by the way, they have a full-on tutorial that takes you through every step of the process and gives you bits of code to get started so what's your excuse at that point? If you've got $100, then you can throw and toss into a hobby, pick up a soldering iron and go to town because there are videos, there's the documentation. Documentation is just everywhere now, where it was never there before. I think the next step for us is seeing how can we very early on show real physical world products to end users and get feedback. How we're taking design now is beyond the digital and into the physical. CHARLES: That's fascinating. I feel like there's this pendulum that swings through the tech industry of things moving from hardware to software and back again. We're in the middle of the swing towards the outside or towards the hardware again, like the distributed hardware versus the dumb terminals. It's distributed across a bunch of devices rather than concentrated on one super-powered desktop computer. The pendulum is going to swing in it but it's just always fascinated to see what the actual arc that it takes is going to be. This has been a fascinating conversation and the reason I wanted to have it and we were actually talking about this before the show started officially, why this topic of 'devsigner?' I think that it's a role that is emerging. I think it's still in the early days. I think that I went from three years ago having never really met this type of person to having met and worked with you. Now, I would say having met and worked with three people here at Frontside who fulfill that role and now knowing a couple professed devsigner or people who operate clearly in the design and the developer space on Twitter. I feel like it's this emerging career track that might not be fully understood or defined right now but clearly, there's something there so we wanted to explore that. I'm curious if we might be able to open up the discussion a little bit on what is the future of this role? What tasks will it be set to accomplish? When you're assembling your team, you say, "Get me one of those because we're going to need that." How is that going to be further refined and designed so that it scales as, perhaps an official career in one, two, five, 10 or 20 years? DREW: I can only speak to my experience in this area and I can say that for the most part, it is a very unique skill set and sometimes, it's hard to come but like you said, you're working now with three people. I think it's growing in prevalence. I believe that where coding was less common in the past, it's becoming so much more common now that it's almost like an expectation just like typing. It is an expectation now. People expect you know how to type. It's not a surprise that we're going to see more and more of these individuals. I would say that any design team out there could almost invariably benefit from having somebody with this skill set, somebody who can translate design concept into a working prototype. I've seen it manifest as a prototyping role, more or less just so that we can have a tangible deliverable for developers. I think it does depend on the team, certainly. If you have small teams with talented frontend developers, then certainly you can work in a lean and agile environment and make very quick iterative change. If you have very large design teams and very large development teams, I would say that having a frontend developer with the skill set in a creative team allows that communication to happen without routine phone calls and lots of meetings, essentially. It's a crystal clear example. I've see it manifest as a prototyping role because the expectation is this code will end up in production but some of the code may. The layout code may end up in production but the functional bits may not. That's not to say that the functionality isn't a part of the experience and that, designers don't care about how well an experience performs. But typically where many designers see the disconnect is in the presentation layer. Having somebody who can carry that over is usually something that is far smaller team can handle. Does that align with your experiences? CHARLES: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and I would say that the compliment from having this person on your development team, if you're in mainline development mode or maybe you are a small team, even if it's a production system but you don't have full time design resources, this person can slice and dice the features and understand the hierarchy of interactions and being able to put together some wireframe, some very concrete goals and set those goals for the rest of the development team. But yet also understand what goals are achievable in the iteration. I think it works from the flipside as well. Maybe what we're seeing is the agile of the [inaudible] of everything. What we've seen over the past 15 years or 20 years, what has been the arc of my career is just seeing these feedback loops in every element of product development getting smaller and smaller and smaller. On the development side, we recognize this as being able to feedback loops and verification. Having your tests, you don't actually have to deploy your system to be able to get feedback about whether it works or have it be fully assembled to get feedback about whether it works. But then that manifests in terms of continuous integration and deployment. You're bringing down the feedback loop of getting this out in front of people versus these long deployment cycles that maybe you really have a release every year. It was hard to believe but that was the norm when I started. It was yearly, maybe even once every 18 months. It was not uncommon at all to have released cycles like that. Certainly, three months was very, very short but then those tight feedback loops can also manifest itself, internally in terms of team communication and I think having people who can make those feedback loops between the product and between the implementation, every time you shorten that feedback loop, you're unlocking an exponential amount of time. DREW: Yeah, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head when you talk about setting scope and understanding things as well. Strictly speaking from agile terminology, having a product or a role that can bridge those gaps is critical. I think that the best product owners that I've worked with have understood, have had an appreciation for design but also have had some degree of a development backend as well so they know how to make those critical decisions. In any sort of iterative or agile environment, you have to dice up these features and figure out which ones are going to ship when they're going to ship. I think, yeah you hit it right out of the park with that. Whether or not you can ever have a full-on team of just prototypers, I'm not as convinced that that's necessarily scalable. It seems like there's certainly a role for teams of developer that will break down features and then there's teams of creative as well. CHARLES: I think in terms of the person who would lead that team, this role definitely seems very well fit. DREW: Exactly. CHARLES: I think it's a great opportunity for someone who's looking for a leadership position in terms of developing and seeing products to market, which is kind of similar to what you're finding yourself in today or where you're headed towards, it sounds like. DREW: Yeah, for the most part. It seems like I do find myself in a number of calls in kind of bridging those gaps. It's certainly a different dynamic in the agile environment when work with hardware. That's something that I think we're still exploring and still understanding. Certainly, there are companies that do agile with hardware but there's a whole slew of different challenges. You're not just deploying anymore. You're actually building manufacturing understanding what needs to ship with what. I think the next evolution of our company's growth into this space is how do iteratively produce hardware. ELRICK: Interesting. CHARLES: You got to keep me posted. The next time we have you on the podcast, you're going to have it all figured out, you're going to be presenting your thesis, it's a conference talk upcoming, agile hardware. ELRICK: Yeah, that would be pretty interesting. DREW: Yeah, I'll let you know. CHARLES: In the first iteration, you just throw a bunch of boiling solder on the breadboard and see what works. "Okay, now, that didn't work." DREW: I'll be honest with you. The 3D printing is making lots of possibilities open up in that space but ultimately, you got to ship. We use 3D printing and now we are using these low-cost computers to really prototype real world experiences and near-to-final industrial design. We can do that. CHARLES: Drew, this sounds like you have the coolest job. ELRICK: I know, it sounds awesome. DREW: It become even more exciting than I had initially intended. It's fun times. I think, again we're living in a time when we can 3D print stuff and have it done within a couple of hours. What better time to embrace these technologies and this creative spirit. It's kind of all around us. Honestly, it's just being fortunate. CHARLES: Yeah. Fantastic. This has been a great conversation. Thank you so much, Drew for coming on. DREW: My pleasure. Thanks for having me, guys. CHARLES: It's an amazing place. It sounds like even more fun since we got to work with you. If anybody is out there and they're in the design space and they think that, "Oh, maybe I can't do development," or it's too hard. It's not. There's a lot of people out there who are doing it and experiencing lots of good benefits. I would say that the other thing is if you're a developer, you should think about looking into the design space, something that you might be interested in. I think it's probably less common that the vectors people move from development into design and not vice versa but there's nothing that says that it can't go that way. Mostly, it's because people just aren't doing and they think that that option is not available to them but clearly, it is and clearly, it's a valuable role. I think this role is going to only get more valuable in the future. DREW: I would second that thought and that notion. I give a quick shout out to Erin O'Neal. She's a former colleague of mine who's given a number of talks about that very topic -- backend developers caring about user experience, caring about the design. She's given some talks. You could probably find her on YouTube. Anybody who wants to talk about it, I'm all over the web as DrewCovi. I think I pretty much have that user name in every platform so if you Google me, you'll find me. CHARLES: We'll look for you. Obviously, you can find us at @TheFrontside on Twitter, TheFrontside on GitHub and feel free to drop us a line at Contact@Frontside.io. Thank you for listening everybody and we'll see you next week.

Bill Thomas (@MashBill_Thomas), Owner of Jack Rose (@JackRoseinDC), tells his history of turning a passion for whiskey and 20 years of dusty hunting into the single largest collection of epic bourbon that is available for sale at Jack Rose Dining Saloon in Washington D.C. Talk about your history and your love affair with bourbon? Explain to the listeners, what is Jack Rose? How many bottles do you have in inventory? Is it safe to assume that every bourbon bar in the nation aspires to be Jack Rose? How do you source all of your older vintage whiskey? Do you think most of your patrons prefer older or newer stuff? How do you keep your personal vs business bunker separate? If you were to share a drink with one person, past or present or fiction, who would it be? What's the best find you've ever had? Talk about choosing barrels that have leaks You have a crazy amount of Willetts. So talk about how you got connected with Drew You can see the passion is there for you. Do you ever get burnt out always having to chase?

Drew Bledsoe, the top draft pick in the NFL, knew football doesn't last forever. How he transitioned to an entirely new occupation. Career change is a key to life today and must be planned ahead. Today, we have a very special guest and an exemplary position in life to give you a perspective that’s very different and something that we’ve talked about in other episodes, but here we have a real life example. Today we have Drew Bledsoe. If there’s anybody on the planet who doesn’t know or remember, he was drafted number one in the NFL, and then became a starting quarterback, etc. Extremely successful. We know that. I want to talk a little bit both about how he got there, what he went through, what he did, and then the new business he’s in, which is wine; how he did that, how he made the transition, because that’s what so many people have to do so many times in life. Almost nobody ends up in the same place, or the same job, or the same career that they started with. Welcome, Drew. Drew Bledsoe: Thanks for having me on. I’m really excited to visit with you, Thomas, and I welcome the opportunity. Thomas: Thank you. Thank you for coming on. You’re such a good example . Could you tell us a little bit about what it takes to attain the level in sports that you did? Drew:  There are a lot of things at work, there. First, you’ve got to program your mind. If somebody saw me in the seventh or eighth grade, I was not the guy that anybody was going to pick out as the guy who was going to go on to be a professional athlete. I was tall and skinny, and not very fast. I had really big feet; I just didn’t move very well. That didn’t change how I viewed myself in my mind. I really felt like I could be a great football player, and really programmed my mind so that I could never accept anything less than my very best effort, whether it came to training, practice, school – you name it. Because I had those high expectations and that view of myself as somebody that was going to be excellent, I wouldn’t accept less than my very best in anything that I did. That was really where it started. Thomas: It’s interesting, because so often so many people think that somebody has just got this natural ability, natural talent, and that’s why they are where they are. I know in college, etc., when I went to graduate school at Berkeley, my impression was: “Oh, gosh. I’m going to meet these professors, and they’re just these superhuman people.” Then, low and behold, I get in there and I find out they’re there early, they’re there late, they’re working on weekends. These are Nobel Prize winners. It wasn’t just a gift. It was also a dedication, effort, and fortitude. I am hearing you saying something of the same thing. Is that true? Drew: You’re 100% right. One of the advantages that I had, as I was growing up, my father and his good friend ran a football camp and I got a chance to be around very successful professional football players when I was growing up. I got a chance to see these guys and meet these guys, and I discovered that they’re not superheroes. They are regular guys that have athletic ability that obviously is outside the norm, but that’s not really what allowed them to be successful. What allowed them to be successful was the work they put in, and the continued work that they put in. Fred Biletnikoff, who was one of the great wide receivers ever to play professional football, and still, the best receiver in college football every year receives the Biletnikoff Award. I got to meet and be around Fred Biletnikoff when I was growing up, and the guy, I think he was probably 5’10-5’11, probably 180 pounds, and by the time I met him, slightly balding. He was not the guy that you looked at and said: “Man, that guy is an NFL wide receiver.” When I was around him, every time he was on the practice field just coaching kids up, he was always practicing running routes, and he was always practicing proper catching technique,