It Was What It Was

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. With the Club World Cup underway, we wrap up the week with Part Two of our Origin Story series, focusing on Manchester United's chaotic 2000 Club World Cup campaign in Brazil.Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper unpack United's controversial decision to withdraw from the FA Cup, the disorganised nature of the tournament, and the fiery clash between European entitlement and South American intensity. Plus, we'll hear about the now-legendary story of Roy Keane, Teddy Sheringham, and Nicky Butt hang gliding over Rio - doing their best to stay out of sight of Sir Alex Ferguson!If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening!And don't forget to subscribe to our new show Stick to Cricket, wherever you get your podcasts!00:00 English Expectations and Brazilian Strength00:48 Introduction to the Double History Podcast00:58 The Infamous 2000 Club World Cup02:01 FIFA's Ambitions and the Club World Cup03:36 The Controversial Decision: Manchester United's Dilemma04:27 Global Participation and FIFA's Motivations07:09 Political Pressures and England's World Cup Bid22:09 Manchester United's PR Disaster in Brazil25:18 The Tournament Begins: Double Header in Sao Paulo26:17 The Shabby Stadium and Initial Matches27:16 David Beckham's Red Card Incident28:22 United's Aloof Image and Public Relations Disaster29:26 Tournament Progress and Group Stage Results30:07 Vasco's Dominance Over Manchester United33:11 Gary Neville's Struggles and Team Support38:37 United's PR Disaster in Rio40:13 Impact on United's Season and Future Tournaments42:06 Reflections on the Club World Cup50:43 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, with the Club World Cup underway, Rob and Jonathan delve into its chaotic and often violent origins!They explore how the early intercontinental tournaments were organised, from the first attempts in the late 19th century to the ultimate establishment of the Toyota Cup. We'll hear about infamous clashes between Celtic and Racing Club, and Manchester United and Estudiantes. Join us for part two on Friday, where we continue the journey into the modern era of the tournament and discuss the controversial 32-team format in the USA.(Apologies for a few audio issues with Rob's mic this week!)00:00 Introduction and Financial Woes00:21 The Club World Cup: Origins and Early Years01:31 Early International Competitions03:59 The Quest for a World Champion08:07 The First Recognized World Club Tournament13:41 The Sir Thomas Lipton Trophy16:50 The Copa Rio: A New Era23:16 Controversial Withdrawal and Unsatisfactory Victory23:37 Rebranding and Decline of the Tournament24:02 Violence and Domestic Dominance25:01 The Little World Cup in Venezuela26:46 The International Soccer League in the US28:47 European and South American Club Competitions30:45 The Birth of the Intercontinental Cup35:34 Violence and Controversy in the Intercontinental Cup41:36 Decline of the Intercontinental Cup44:06 The Toyota Cup Era45:23 The Expanded Club World Cup46:33 Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Please note: Apologies for the audio issues in the first 10 minutes of the show.Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast, with co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson. Today we are joined by special guest David Owen, former sports editor of the Financial Times and author of multiple books on sports history. In this episode, the trio delves deep into the significant alteration of the offside rule on June 13, 1925, and how this monumental change impacted football. From the tactical transformations it spurred, like the introduction of the WM formation and the rise of the centre half role, to its broader effects on the game's entertainment value and popularity, the discussion covers it all.Join us as we explore one of the most pivotal adjustments in football history and its lasting legacy.00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome01:08 The 1925 Offside Rule Change02:21 Historical Context of Offside Rule02:55 Early 20th Century Offside Tactics05:01 Impact of the 1925 Rule Change12:27 Adaptations and Innovations19:04 Immediate Effects in England26:03 Notable Goal Scoring Feats27:42 Astonishing Cup Run and Relegation Drama29:05 Impact of the 1925 Offside Law Change32:03 Defensive Strategies and Adaptations34:15 Tactical Innovations and the WM Formation42:04 Evolution of Player Roles and Transfer Market53:32 Global Differences and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.In today's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore one of the most powerful stories in football history: Zambia's remarkable triumph at the 2012 Africa Cup of Nations.Jonathan, who covered the 2012 tournament on the ground, shares firsthand reflections of what he calls the most emotional press box moment he's ever experienced. Nineteen years after a devastating plane crash claimed the lives of their national squad, Zambia rose from the ashes to claim continental glory. This episode retraces their journey - from the tragedy off the coast of Gabon in 1993, the rebuilding efforts led by legendary captain Kalusha Bwalya, right through to their unforgettable victory on penalties in the very same country that witnessed their darkest hour.00:00 The Final Match: A Battle Beyond the Pitch00:15 Introduction to an Inspiring and Tragic Football Story00:36 Zambia's Uplifting Victory After Tragedy02:26 The 1993 Plane Crash: A National Tragedy04:37 Zambia's Football Rise in the Late 80s08:15 The Aftermath of the Crash and the Struggle for Resources18:42 Rebuilding the Team: The Role of Kaia and New Coaches24:01 The 2012 African Cup of Nations Journey25:06 The Quarterfinals and Beyond27:01 Gabon vs. Mali: A Penalty Heartbreak27:30 Unexpected Journey to Bata31:12 Ghana's Complacency and Zambia's Rise38:38 The Emotional Beach Ceremony40:27 The Dramatic Final Against Ivory Coast51:10 Zambia's Historic Victory52:16 Reflecting on the Significance Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore the remarkable life and career of Luis Enrique, fresh off delivering Paris Saint-Germain's first-ever Champions League title.From leading Barcelona to a historic treble in 2015 to now rewriting PSG's narrative in Europe, Enrique's managerial legacy is already carved into footballing folklore. But behind the silverware lies a deeply personal story; one of resilience, heartbreak, and unshakable determination.In 2019, Enrique stepped away from football during his time as Spain's national team coach after the tragic death of his 9-year-old daughter, Xana, who lost her battle with bone cancer. The podcast reflects on how he faced unimaginable grief and later returned to the sidelines with a renewed sense of focus, channeling his pain into purpose.We also explore the lesser-known side of Enrique — the ultramarathon runner, the iron-willed competitor, and the fitness fanatic who demanded relentless physical commitment from his players. His obsession with endurance has shaped not only the way his teams play but also the culture he instills: high pressing, relentless movement, and mental toughness.Where does Luis Enrique's legacy stand now? From Gijón to Camp Nou to Paris, and from personal tragedy to professional triumph — this is a story of more than just football. It's about the making of a modern great.0:00 Introduction and Personal Reflection00:32 Luis Enrique's Early Life and Background04:15 Football Beginnings and Early Career07:03 Transition to Real Madrid and Barcelona16:06 International Career and Notable Incidents22:52 Post-Playing Career and Coaching Beginnings29:07 Luis Enrique's Coaching Journey31:01 Barcelona's Missed Opportunity with Luis Enrique32:36 Luis Enrique's Success at Celta Vigo32:49 Barcelona's Second Chance with Luis Enrique35:41 The Messi Conundrum37:54 Luis Enrique's Triumphs and Challenges at Barcelona44:53 The Tragic Loss of Luis Enrique's Daughter47:15 Return to the Spanish National Team52:26 Luis Enrique's Tenure at PSG01:00:36 The Emotional Impact of Luis Enrique's Journey01:02:41 Conclusion and Reflections Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore a landmark moment in the sport: Brazil, for the first time in its storied history, has appointed a sole foreign manager, Carlo Ancelotti.As he prepares to lead the Seleção in his first match on Friday against Ecuador, the episode unpacks the significance of his move to Brazil.They examine Ancelotti's coaching philosophy, tracing its roots to his mentor Nils Liedholm and the enduring influence of Hungarian football. The conversation spans decades and continents—from the intellectual cafés of Budapest to the shifting tactical landscape of South America. Along the way, they reflect on the evolution of Brazilian coaching and the global reach of Hungarian tactical innovation.Join them for a compelling look at the past, present, and future of football strategy, and discover how Ancelotti's arrival in Brazil could be a return to their roots.00:00 Introduction and Personal Anecdotes00:37 Historic Day for Brazil: Foreign Manager Appointed01:15 Carlo Ancelotti's Coaching Philosophy01:55 Brazil's Foreign Coaching History04:56 The Dominance of Argentinian Coaches in South America06:04 Brazilian Football's Tactical Evolution10:30 Hungarian Influence on Brazilian Football20:56 Brazil's World Cup Preparations and Challenges26:13 Brazil's Struggles Against European Teams27:49 Modern Era: Brazil's Coaching Crisis29:11 Analysing the Decline of Brazilian Football30:01 The Influence of European Coaching30:22 The Role of Brazilian Midfielders30:37 Recent Brazilian Coaches and Their Struggles31:38 The Turning Point: Italy 198232:10 Introduction to Carlo Ancelotti's Appointment32:49 Carlo Ancelotti's Mentorship and Legacy35:27 The Hungarian Influence on Modern Football38:33 The Swedish Connection and Coaching Philosophy40:22 The Rise of IFK Norrköping48:28 The Formation of the Gre-No-Li Trio51:27 Carlo Ancelotti's Impact on Brazilian Football55:12 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this episode, Jonathan and Rob explore the history of Paris Saint-Germain ahead of their Champions League final against Inter Milan.Join us as we uncover the intriguing journey of PSG - and their transformation from a club with little history to a European powerhouse. Rob and Jonathan explore the significant matches, the controversial ownership and the club's elusive quest for Champions League glory. For more build-up to the Champions League Final - listen to our episode on Inter Milan - The Birth of the Catenaccio - released earlier this week.00:00 Introduction to the Football History Podcast01:08 PSG's Humble Beginnings02:59 The Formation of PSG04:30 Challenges and Controversies06:53 The Role of Media and Public Support08:48 The Birth of Paris Saint-Germain11:10 The Struggle for Identity14:38 The Rise of PSG20:12 Fashion and Football: The Daniel Hechter Era25:27 Financial Misconduct in French Football26:15 PSG's Rise in the 1980s27:20 Early European Struggles28:41 Financial Turmoil and Media Takeover30:32 Golden Years and European Semi-Final Curse33:31 Qatari Takeover and Controversies41:45 Branding and Big Signings46:31 Modern Challenges and Future Prospects50:12 Conclusion and Champions League final thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to this Champions League special episode of It Was What It Was with hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson. In this episode, they dive deep into the rich tactical history of Inter Milan, tracing the origins and impact of the famous Catenaccio system introduced by legendary coach Helenio Herrera in the 1960s. They explore Herrera's significant influence on modern football management, his controversial methods, and the eventual decline of his tactical system. Additionally, the hosts draw parallels between Herrera's era and Inter Milan's current approach under Simone Inzaghi, highlighting how historical tactics still resonate today as they face PSG inJoin us at the end of the week as we turn our attention to PSG's history, as they look to win the Champions League for the first time.00:00 Introduction 00:19 Champions League Special: Setting the Scene00:34 Helena Herrera: The Tactical Genius01:56 The Birth of Catenaccio02:56 Karl Rappan and the Swiss Influence08:43 Catenaccio's Evolution in Italy13:31 The Rise of Inter Milan19:02 Herrera's Early Career and Philosophy27:31 Herrera's Impact at Barcelona29:54 Transition to Inter Milan30:07 Inter's Turbulent Coaching History30:39 Helenio Herrera's Arrival and Impact31:17 Herrera's Strict Regimen and Control34:55 Tactical Innovations and Success42:06 Controversies and Criticisms49:31 The Decline of Herrera's Inter56:50 Legacy and Modern Comparisons01:02:19 Conclusion and Upcoming Content Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper focus on the 1984/85 season that changed English football, with Part One focussing on the numerous fan violence incidents then the tragedy of the Bradford fire as 56 fans lost their lives.Today, in part two, Tony Evans, former sports editor at The Times and author of 'Two Tribes' and 'Far Foreign Land' joins the show to talk about Heysel. In this episode, Tony Evans shares his harrowing experiences and poignant reflections on the Heysel Stadium disaster of 1985, when 39 football fans tragically lost their lives during the European Cup Final between Liverpool and Juventus. The discussion covers the chaotic events leading up to the disaster, the atmosphere in Brussels, and the aftermath, both immediate and long-term, for football and fan culture. Don't miss this in-depth exploration of one of the darkest days in football history.00:00 Introducing the Podcast and Special Guest Tony Evans02:15 Liverpool in 1985: A City and Club in Turmoil02:30 The Violent Year: Football and Social Unrest05:09 The Day of the Heysel Disaster: Personal Accounts07:46 Chaos in Brussels: The Build-Up to Tragedy16:57 The Collapse: Mismanagement and Miscommunication27:45 The Aftermath: Reactions and Reflections30:35 The Aftermath of the Tragedy31:43 Personal Recollections and Impact32:26 Documentary Insights and Victim Stories34:56 Chaos and Confusion at the Stadium38:25 The Decision to Continue the Game49:08 Reflections on Fan Behaviour and Consequences51:27 The Broader Context and Political Reactions53:48 Long-term Changes in Football Culture58:38 Concluding Thoughts on the Tragedy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was When It Was, the football history podcast. This week we're focussing on the 1984-85 footballing season - arguably the bleakest time in English football history - that changed the game forever.Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper begin the first of two episodes covering the violence, tragedy, and upheaval of this period and the wider context of football hooliganism in the first half, whilst the second half of part one pays tribute to the horrific Bradford Fire that claimed 56 lives 40 years ago. Explore gripping firsthand accounts, the reactions of key figures, and the societal and institutional issues that plagued the sport, leading to safety measures and ultimately, a transformation in football culture.Join us on Friday as we are joined by Tony Evans to talk about the Heysel tragedy that happened at the end of May in 1985.00:00 Introduction to the Podcast01:09 Reflecting on the 1984-85 Season02:47 The Bradford Fire Tragedy04:00 Football's Decrepit Stadiums06:31 Chelsea vs. Sunderland: Milk Cup Semi-Final Chaos12:36 Luton vs. Millwall: FA Cup Violence26:35 Birmingham vs. Leeds: Championship Decider Mayhem29:10 Fans Fight Back and Prolonged Chaos30:52 Medieval Fortress and Perimeter Fences31:59 Racism and Aggression in Football Culture33:15 Introduction to the Bradford Fire35:04 The Start of the Fire and Initial Reactions36:16 Rapid Escalation and Desperate Attempts to Escape38:20 Heartbreaking Personal Accounts and Immediate Aftermath47:16 Investigations and Controversies50:57 Negligence and Legal Consequences57:30 Broader Implications and Future Changes59:24 Conclusion and Preview of Next Episode Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast! Join co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper as they welcome special guest Richard Hough, author of 'Verona Capone, the Miracle of 85'. In this episode, Richard delves into the extraordinary story of Hellas Verona's incredible 1984-85 Serie A title win. From the chaotic Italian football landscape of the 1980s, managerial masterstrokes, and key foreign signings, to the unforgettable moments and lasting impact on the city of Verona, this episode is a deep dive into one of football's most romantic underdog stories. Join us as we explore how a small provincial team conquered giants like AC Milan and Juventus to achieve an unexpected and historic league victory.00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome01:02 Setting the Scene: 1980s Italian Football02:21 Verona's Rise to Glory03:28 Economic and Social Context05:08 Key Players and Strategic Moves12:15 Tactical Insights and Coaching Philosophy15:15 Foreign Players and Their Impact22:55 The Perfect Season Opener25:04 The Opening Goal and Season Kickoff25:29 Verona's Iconic Moments and Key Players30:05 The Turning Point in the Season33:01 The Final Stretch to the Title40:42 Celebrations and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.It's FA Cup final week, with Manchester City set to take on Crystal Palace at Wembley. In this episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper revisit the dramatic story of Palace's remarkable run to the 1990 FA Cup Final.Just months after a crushing 9-0 defeat to Liverpool, Crystal Palace stunned the same side in a sensational 4-3 semi-final — a match still regarded as one of the greatest in FA Cup history. That victory set up a final against Sir Alex Ferguson's Manchester United, who, at the time, were still chasing their first trophy under his management.Today, we delve into where Crystal Palace stood as a club in 1990, explore their tactical shifts, highlight standout performances — especially the impact of Ian Wright — and examine Manchester United's situation under Ferguson, including the pivotal moments that led to his first silverware with the club. We also examine whether Palace could shock Manchester City and finally win the FA Cup for the first time in their history.Chapters00:00 Introduction02:23 Crystal Palace's Journey to the Semis03:37 Televised Semifinals and Hillsborough's Impact11:55 Crystal Palace's Tactical Shift15:17 The Dramatic Semifinal Match20:39 Crystal Palace's Historic FA Cup Final21:06 Manchester United's Journey to the 1990 FA Cup Final25:55 Ian Wright's Miraculous Comeback28:35 The Replay and Ferguson's First Trophy31:56 Comparing Crystal Palace Eras36:05 Can Crystal Palace Upset Manchester City? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In today's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper look back on the rich history of Goodison Park, Everton's storied home ground, as it approaches its final days.From setting the history into the building of the iconic stadium to picking out unforgettable matches to legendary players, relive iconic moments such as Dixie Dean's record-setting 60 goals in one season, Eusebio's praise at the 1966 World Cup, the famous 1994 relegation battle against Wimbledon and Wayne Rooney's spectacular goal against Arsenal.Join us as we celebrate the legacy of one of England's most beloved football stadiums. What's your favourite Goodison Park memory? Get in touch on @ItWasPod on X.Please don't forget to leave a review and recommend to your friends!00:00 Introduction and Opening Remarks00:33 The Significance of Goodison Park01:44 Architectural and Historical Insights04:32 Memorable Matches and Moments07:11 Archibald Leitch's Legacy26:15 Everton's last day survival in 1994 and Match-Fixing Scandal29:33 The1966 World Cup40:34 Dixie Dean's 60th Goal of the season47:27 Wayne Rooney's Stunning Debut Goal49:44 Farewell to Goodison Park Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.Today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper speak of the remarkable journey of Harry Kane, who recently clinched the Bundesliga title with Bayern Munich; the first trophy in his career. Recounting his early days at Arsenal youth, to multiple rejections, and loan spells that nearly derailed his career, the episode highlights Kane's undeterred determination and resilience. Discover how pivotal moments and key influences, such as Mauricio Pochettino and a documentary on Tom Brady, transformed him into one of football's greatest strikers. We end with a quiz, as Rob tests Jonathan's knowledge of British and Irish players who won major league titles abroad!00:00 Introduction: A Childhood Memory00:35 The Arsenal Release: A Turning Point00:43 Celebrating Harry Kane's Achievements01:02 The Early Struggles and Resilience02:36 Harry Kane's Background and Family03:06 Youth Football Journey05:38 Challenges and Determination14:27 Loan Spells and Growth18:40 Millwall Experience and Growing Up21:34 Norwich Loan: A Tough Period27:16 Unexpected Laughter and Player Comparisons28:02 Struggles at Leicester City29:36 Turning Point: The Tom Brady Inspiration31:13 Breakthrough Under Sherwood32:33 Skepticism and Early Success35:04 Pochettino's Influence and Physical Transformation38:36 Near Misses and Final Disappointments43:12 Legacy and Comparisons with Other Greats47:43 Quiz on British and Irish Players Abroad52:59 Conclusion and Reflections on Harry Kane's Career Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.In this week's episode, we turn our attention to Liverpool's extraordinary journey through their history, culminating in Arne Slot's Premier League title-winning side.Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper trace the club's legacy from its early 20th-century triumphs to modern-day glory. They explore the tactical revolutions under legendary managers like Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley, the brilliance of iconic players in Kenny Dalglish and Ian Rush, and the resurgence under Jürgen Klopp. The episode also highlights how Arne Slot has carried that legacy forward, building on the foundations laid by his predecessors.Where does the 2024/25 Liverpool title winners rank amongst the club's greatest ever teams? Get in touch with @ItWasPod on X to let us know!00:00 Introduction to Liverpool's Journey01:42 Early Liverpool Champions: 1901-192302:42 The Impact of Tom Watson06:24 Liverpool's Defensive Strengths07:46 Post-War Liverpool: Nutrition and Success08:46 The Rise of Billy Liddell10:17 Jack Balmer's Unlikely Heroics15:20 Liverpool's First Five Titles16:34 Bill Shankly's Legacy20:55 Bob Paisley's Tactical Brilliance26:18 Liverpool's Dominance in the Late 70s27:12 Liverpool's Dominant Back Four27:52 Dalglish vs. Keegan: Who's Better?29:08 The Greatest Liverpool Side of All Time?29:54 European Cup Draw and Unfortunate Knockout33:29 Transition to the Kenny Dalglish Era37:53 Impact of Hillsborough and the 1989 Season41:55 Liverpool's Modern Era and Klopp's Influence46:46 Future Prospects and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Liverpool wrapped up their 20th English league title at the weekend, so today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper focus on the fascinating career of manager Arne Slot who has won the Premier League at his first attempt at Anfield. Beginning with his unique upbringing in a football-centric Dutch Bible Belt town, we explore how watching his father coach from a young age shaped Slot's tactical mind, travel through his early playing days, his reputation as a tactician, and his impressive managerial stints that led him to win the Eredivisie with Feyenoord and now the Premier League with Liverpool. On Friday, Jonathan and Rob will assess where Slot's Liverpool title winners sit in Liverpool's glorious history.00:00 Introduction: A Coach's Son00:40 Early Life and Background of Arne Slot01:26 The Dutch Football Culture03:01 Influence of Johan Cruyff and Total Football05:02 Arne Slot's Youth and Early Football Education07:11 Professional Career Beginnings13:40 Tactical Innovations and Coaching Philosophy21:58 The Early Coaching Journey of Arne Slot23:14 Challenges and Successes at Cambuur25:56 Influence of Pep Guardiola and Data Analytics29:10 Rise at AZ Alkmaar34:43 Success at Feyenoord and Coaching Style43:45 Legacy and Future Prospects Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.It's time for Part Two of Pep vs Jose! As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year's Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football.Guardiola vs Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil?Fifteen years ago, Pep's all-conquering Barcelona met Jose's Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn't just decide who reached the final - it helped define a footballing era.Having set the scene in part one, Rob and Jonathan relive the incredible semi-final battles, where Mourinho would ultimately dethrone Guardiola in an incredible second-leg at the Nou Camp - which saw a controversial sending off, late drama and an iconic pitch celebration.If you enjoyed the podcast please subscribe and rate.00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene00:45 The Clash of Philosophies: Mourinho vs. Guardiola01:32 The Tactical Battle Begins04:32 The Volcano Eruption and Its Impact10:24 First Leg Highlights and Analysis13:18 Ibrahimović's Conflict and Mourinho's Mind Games18:06 The Build-Up to the Second Leg25:23 The Myth of the Decision25:41 The Controversial Red Card26:54 Conspiracy Theories and Psychological Influence27:52 The Clash of Good vs. Evil28:34 Tactical Fouling and Pep's Cynical Side29:59 Marina's Critique of Barcelona's Tactics31:37 Inter's Defensive Masterclass34:13 The Struggle Against Possession Football36:38 The Final Moments and Disallowed Goal40:03 Marino's Triumphant Celebration43:16 The Aftermath and Legacy46:43 The Tactical Evolution in Football48:58 The Importance of Non-Possession Football50:28 Conclusion and Reflections Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was.As Barcelona and Inter prepare to face off once again in this year's Champions League semi-final, we look back at the original - a tie that shaped modern football.Pep Guardiola vs. José Mourinho. All-out attack vs. tactical defiance. Ideology, rivalry - maybe even good vs. evil?Fifteen years ago, Pep's all-conquering Barcelona met Mourinho's Inter Milan in a Champions League semi-final that didn't just decide who reached the final - it helped define a footballing era.In Part One, Rob and Jonathan set the scene: how Mourinho's Inter came to challenge the most dominant team in the world, the tactics he used, the battles he fought in Italy, and how both sides arrived at this collision point chasing domestic and European glory.Part Two drops Friday, where Rob and Jonathan break down the epic semi-final itself.00:00 Barcelona's Football Perfection01:48 Mourinho vs. Guardiola: A Rivalry Begins02:47 The Dark Side of Mourinho03:25 Star Wars Analogies and Football Tactics06:53 Mourinho's Seven-Point Plan07:45 Mourinho's Philosophy and Evolution08:43 Mourinho's Journey to Inter Milan09:58 Cultural Expectations and Pragmatic Football12:23 Mourinho's Press Conference Antics13:44 Mourinho's Linguistic Brilliance14:49 Mourinho's Training Philosophy20:04 Key Matches and Tactical Shifts21:16 Mourinho's First Season at Inter22:27 Transfer Drama: Stars on the Move23:51 Barcelona's Dominance and Challenges26:40 Inter's Journey to the Semifinals28:57 Mourinho's Tactical Mastery32:29 Controversies and Confrontations40:24 The Road to the Semifinals43:57 Setting the Stage for the Epic Semifinal Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. It's time for part two of our look at the unexpected role a horse would play in the controversial takeover of Manchester United by the Glazer family. The episode covers the period of the Glazer acquisition, the impact of their ownership, and the financial manoeuvres that transformed the club. From Alex Ferguson's complicated relationship with the Glazers to the missed opportunities and recruitment challenges that followed, this episode gives an in-depth look at how Manchester United's fate was sealed - and the horse that might have started it all!00:00 The Decline of Manchester United: A 20-Year Journey00:20 Introduction to the Football History Podcast00:48 The Gibraltar Incident and Its Fallout01:26 The Glazers' Takeover: A Turning Point02:24 The Financial Strategy of the Glazers02:54 The Early Signs of Trouble03:58 The Glazers' Background and Business Practices04:48 The Impact of Global Capital on Football06:24 The Glazers' Vision and Strategy08:43 The Financial Mechanics of the Takeover10:41 The Role of Debt in Modern Football11:54 The Glazers' Financial Maneuvering14:32 The Aftermath and Long-Term Consequences16:15 The Glazers' Legacy and Future Implications18:26 The Financial Crisis and Its Impact on Football20:57 The Leveraged Buyout Explained22:52 The Final Stages of the Takeover30:47 The Glazer Takeover and Initial Success31:17 Fan Protests and Opposition34:52 Financial Strain and Missed Opportunities37:32 The Role of Ed Woodward43:18 Transfer Market Failures46:15 Managerial Missteps53:37 The Glazers' Disconnect and Conclusion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.In today's episode, hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by journalist David Walsh to explore how the modern fortunes of Manchester United are intertwined with one of the greatest racehorses in history.This is the extraordinary story of Rock of Gibraltar, the famed racehorse part-owned by Sir Alex Ferguson - and how his connections and relationships with John Magnier, and JP McManus would ultimately impact the Glazers' takeover of Manchester United. David Walsh shares insider details from his investigative work on the story, making this one of the most fascinating sports sagas of recent times. Tune in on Friday for part two, and the implications of the Glazers' takeover - and Manchester United's decline.00:00 The Tale of the Lost Kingdom00:25 Introduction to the Podcast and Special Guest00:35 The Story of Rock of Gibraltar01:25 David Walsh's Insights02:28 The Connection Between Sir Alex Ferguson and John Magner07:36 The Rise of Rock of Gibraltar17:21 The Dispute Over Ownership19:26 The Financial Implications29:04 Ownership Dispute and Legal Battle29:52 High Court Drama and Stakeholder Tensions30:50 Public Fallout and Media Frenzy34:02 Settlement and Aftermath38:39 The Glazers' Takeover41:35 Reflecting on Missed Opportunities49:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to It Was What It Was for part two of our interview with Brendan Batson, a trailblazer in English football.Brendon tells Jonathan and Rob about his impactful time at West Bromwich Albion as part of the iconic 'Three Degrees' with Cyrille Regis and Laurie Cunningham. We discuss his teammates, the tragic losses and his work to combat racism. Brendon also gives us an insight into the personal impact of his former manager Ron Atkinson's notorious comments on live television.00:00 Introduction and Overview01:07 Brendan Batson's Early Career and Challenges03:00 The China Tour Experience06:20 The Three Degrees Phenomenon12:32 Impact and Legacy of Black Players18:37 Knee Injury and Career Transition20:10 Coaching Courses and Philosophies24:24 The Evolution of a Coaching Philosophy24:42 The One-Size-Fits-All Approach25:50 Player Welfare and Career Transitions27:59 Tragic Losses and Their Impact28:38 The Legacy of Laurie Cunningham32:33 Racism in Football: A Personal Betrayal38:20 The Complexity of Racism in Football41:21 The Fight Against Racism: Past and Present46:17 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This week Jonathan and Rob welcome special guest Brendan Batson, a former Arsenal, Cambridge, and West Brom player - who made a significant impact on British social and footballing history.Part one focuses on Batson's early life in Grenada and Trinidad, his challenges adapting to the British climate in the 1960s, and becoming Arsenal's first black player. Join us for part two on Friday where Brendan recalls his time at West Brom - and the birth of the famous 'Three Degrees'.00:00 Introduction and Special Guest Announcement01:21 Brendan Batson's Early Life and Migration to England03:18 Adapting to Life in England and Discovering Football06:34 Challenges and Racism in Early Years11:48 The Windrush Generation and Social Context14:48 Racism in Football and the National Front19:13 Conclusion of Part One20:00 Scouted by Arsenal: The Beginning of a Football Journey21:23 Challenges and Triumphs: Early Arsenal Days22:38 Facing Racism: The Harsh Realities of the 60s and 70s25:06 Breaking Barriers: Becoming Arsenal's First Black Player27:44 Struggles with Racism on the Field31:36 Guidance and Growth: Learning to Cope34:32 Career Progression: From Arsenal to Cambridge and Beyond36:33 Ron Atkinson's Influence: A Turning Point37:41 Conclusion: Reflecting on a Pioneering Career Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, and part two of our look at Cameroon's extraordinary journey at the 1990 World Cup.With their stunning opening victory against defending champions Argentina and making history as the first African team to reach the quarter-finals, Cameroon's story is one of resilience, brilliance, and pure football magic.Facing England in a gripping quarter-final showdown against stars like Paul Gascoigne and Gary Lineker, the Indomitable Lions captivated the world in one of the World Cup's greatest underdog stories.If you enjoyed the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode.00:00 Introduction and Initial Setup00:19 Chaos and Preparation for the World Cup01:25 Cameroon's Opening Game Against Argentina02:45 Diego Maradona's Challenges04:56 Cameroon's Tactical Adjustments07:35 FIFA's New Rules and Refereeing Challenges11:35 Cameroon's Historic Victory Over Argentina15:04 Advancing Through the Group Stage20:41 Facing Colombia in the Knockout Stage23:39 Cliffhanger: Preparing to Face England24:32 England's Quarter-Final Prospects25:25 Scouting Cameroon: Underestimations and Realities27:32 Tunnel Tensions and Early Game Dynamics29:37 Cameroon's Tactical Surprises33:46 England's Tactical Adjustments40:54 Cameroon's Legacy and African Football Challenges50:07 Concluding Thoughts on Cameroon 1990 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This week on It Was What It Was, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson look back at one of the most iconic footballing stories of all time: Cameroon's 1990 World Cup. Jonathan and Rob look at the chaotic preparations behind Cameroon's campaign, discussing last-minute squad upheaval, internal conflicts between teammates, and the unexpected recall of a man who would become a legend: Roger Milla. In the build up to the tournament's opening game against defending champions Argentina, there were turbulent training camps, political interferences, and a complete lack of confidence in the squad. That would all change in the summer to come... Join us on Friday for Part Two. If you're enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. 00:00 Pre-Game Nerves and Disorganization01:02 Introduction to the 1990 Cameroon Team01:25 Historical Context of African Teams in the World Cup02:26 The Dramatic Campaign of Cameroon 199004:40 The Goalkeeper Dilemma07:25 African Football's Struggles and Triumphs14:37 Colonial Impact on African Football17:44 Cameroon's Chaotic Road to the World Cup24:09 African Players in European Football24:58 Cameroon's Discontent in the 1990s26:02 The Build-Up to the 1990 World Cup31:43 Roger Milla's Unexpected Return40:07 Goalkeeper Rivalries and Team Dynamics43:33 Pre-Match Chaos and Last-Minute Changes Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.Today Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author James Montague to discuss his new book 'Engulfed' - exploring Saudi Arabia's massive investments in sport.James gives unique insights on the history of Saudi football, the Vision 2030 project, and how Newcastle United's takeover fits into the larger picture. You'll find out how strategic use of 'soft power' has transformed Saudi Arabia's global image through sport.The trio examine the rich football culture in Saudi Arabia, the country's evolving social landscape, and the geopolitics influencing these changes.If you're enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show.00:00 Introduction00:17 James Montague's Early Works and Reviews01:28 Re-release and Sequel: Engulfed01:59 Saudi Arabia's Emergence in Sports03:26 Sports Washing and Soft Power06:47 Historical Context and Saudi Investments11:10 Mohammad bin Salman's Rise to Power23:57 The Khashoggi Incident and Its Aftermath30:13 Saudi Arabia's Football Culture31:24 Challenges of Covering Saudi Arabia33:52 Women in Saudi Football35:15 Jimmy Hill's Influence on Saudi Football40:33 David Icke's Saudi Adventure46:10 Vision 2030 and Saudi Football Investments52:26 Neom's Football Ambitions57:34 Conclusion and Book Promotion Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was.It's the final installment of our three-part series exploring the rise and fall of the American Soccer League. Jonathan and Rob dive into internal conflicts within the ASL, the 1929 Wall Street crash, and how its devastating effects exposed the vulnerabilities of the fledgling league. But all is not lost - with another significant attempt to establish professional soccer in the U.S....If you're enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show.00:00 Introduction to the Series and Bela Gutmann's Influence01:13 The Rise of the American Soccer League (ASL)01:51 Innovations and Controversies in American Soccer06:23 Financial Growth and International Tensions08:17 The Playoff System and League Complications10:53 The Struggles of Smaller Franchises15:06 The Breakaway and Formation of the Eastern Soccer League17:31 Chaos and Competition Between Leagues22:24 The Soccer War and Its Impact23:57 The Decline of the American Soccer League25:27 The Wall Street Crash and Its Consequences27:20 The Struggles of Key Figures and Teams29:36 The Final Collapse of the ASL34:25 Analysing the Failure of Soccer in the US38:08 Comparing US and European Sports Models45:36 The Future of Soccer in the US49:17 Conclusion and What's Next Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In today's It Was What It Was, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson continue to explore the fascinating story of soccer in the United States. Highlighting the pivotal role of immigrant communities in the sport's development, the episode also examines key figures like Bela Gutmann and the significant tours by foreign teams that attracted huge crowds.Join us for the conclusion of this three-part series on Tuesday. 00:00 Introduction to Bela Gutmann's New York Era00:51 The Pre-History of American Soccer01:36 Challenges in Establishing Soccer in the U.S.02:26 The First Professional Soccer League04:24 Financial Struggles and League Dynamics07:16 Formation and Early Years of the American Soccer League20:53 Innovations and Comparisons with Other Sports24:19 College Football's Dominance and Soccer's Struggles25:39 The Role of Universities in American Sports26:14 Challenges in Early American Soccer26:53 The Rise of the New York Giants27:44 Fall River Marksmen's Dominance28:25 Economic Struggles and Soccer's Impact29:29 The League's Early Successes and Challenges30:14 Expansion and New Teams31:13 Player Transfers and Immigration Issues33:19 The American Menace and Scottish Football34:49 International Influence and Jewish Tours41:07 The Impact of Jewish Players and Fans44:23 The Maccabees and Tactical Evolution47:49 The League's Growing Popularity and Issues50:32 Concluding Thoughts and Future Outlook Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of It Was What It Was, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson dive into the early history of soccer in the United States.They look at efforts to establish professional leagues, the influence of immigrant communities, and the geographic and cultural factors that made it difficult for football to gain a foothold - compared to rival American sports.This episode is the first of a three-part series. Join us on Friday as the story continues! If you're enjoying the podcast, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show.Chapters:00:00 Introduction to American Soccer01:08 Early History of Soccer in the USA02:00 Challenges and Attempts to Establish Soccer02:38 Soccer's Struggle for Popularity06:06 The Role of Universities in American Football17:16 Immigrant Influence on American Soccer17:43 Regional Hotbeds of Soccer24:18 Formation of Early Soccer Leagues27:43 The Rise of Fall River and Early American Football28:31 Economic Challenges and League Suspensions29:18 Comparing Football Cultures: UK vs. US33:11 Baseball's Influence on Early American Soccer38:53 The Birth of the US Football Association41:36 Challenges and Growth of Early US Soccer46:52 Bethlehem Steel and the Industrial Influence51:01 The Challenge Cup and Regional Rivalries52:09 Concluding Thoughts and Future Prospects Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was.Rob and Jonathan are joined by David Corner - the man whose life was changed forever by the 1985 League Cup Final between Sunderland and Norwich. That match is remembered for a costly mistake that led to Sunderland's defeat - a moment that saw David singled out, subjected to intense criticism and even physical abuse from his own fans.David shares his story with Jonathan and Rob, reflecting on how that experience shaped his life, the challenges he faced in the aftermath, and how he found the strength to move forward.If you're enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. With Liverpool and Newcastle set to battle for the first major trophy of the English domestic season on Sunday, we're taking a journey through some of the greatest League Cup finals of all time. Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper each share three of their favourite finals - games filled with drama, controversy, and unforgettable moments that have defined the competition. Have we missed any of your favourites? Get in touch with @ItWasPodOn Friday we have a special episode featuring David Corner, reflecting on Sunderland's heartbreaking defeat in 1985.If you're enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. Mikel Arteta's transformation of Arsenal, Unai Emery's tactical mastery, Xabi Alonso's meteoric rise at Bayer Leverkusen, and Andoni Iraola's fearless pressing at AFC Bournemouth all highlight a remarkable trend: A new wave of coaches shaping the modern game, many of them from the Basque Country.But why does this small region produce so many elite managers? Is it the coaching philosophy, the deep footballing culture, or something ingrained in the Basque identity?This is the story of how a new generation of Basque coaches are redefining football.If you're enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This week - we discuss the rise of Basque coaching. But we begin not in Bilbao or San Sebastián, but with a Catalan: Pep Guardiola.After revolutionising football with Barcelona, dominating in Germany with Bayern, and redefining the Premier League with Manchester City, Guardiola has become the defining coach of his era. But after a turbulent season at City, questions are emerging: Is this the beginning of the end for his football? Have opponents finally caught up with his ideas? Or does he have another reinvention left?This is the story of how Guardiola reshaped the modern game—and what comes next. Part two, on the Basque coaching revolution, will be released on Friday.If you're enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was. This is the story of a new dawn - where one national team took full control of their destiny, cementing a legacy that continues to shape football today.Following their World Cup triumph (in our last part), the U.S. Women's side entered a new era of independence and power - and with it came major shifts. Coach Tony DiCicco became a casualty of the team's growing influence, making way for fresh leadership and a transformed vision. But tensions were surfacing behind the scenes, with a showdown between star player Brandi Chastain and new coach April Heinrichs...If you're enjoying the series, please subscribe and consider leaving a five-star review to help others find the show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast..Approaching the end of the millennium, the U.S. women's national team had already won a World Cup and Olympic gold, but they were still fighting for mainstream recognition. That all changed when they took centre stage at the 1999 Women's World Cup.With 90,000 fans packing the Rose Bowl and millions watching around the world, the final against China became a defining moment - not just for the U.S. team, but for women's football as a whole. Brandi Chastain's iconic penalty, the sold-out stadiums, and the sheer spectacle of the tournament proved that women's football wasn't just growing - it had arrived. This is the story of how the 1999 World Cup reshaped the sport forever.If you're enjoying the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast..Despite not playing their first professional match until 1985, the U.S. Women won the inaugural World Cup in 1991. But even as champions, they faced inequality—most notably at the 1996 Olympics, where they were only promised pay if they won gold, while the men earned bonuses for any medal. Tennis icon Billie Jean King stepped in to fight for change.This is the story of how the U.S. women's team fought for more than just trophies.Part two, covering the iconic 1999 Women's World Cup, is released on Tuesday. And if you missed our intro episode with USA legend Carli Lloyd earlier this week, go back and check it out. If you're enjoying the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.In our new mini-series, we begin the journey of how women's football in the U.S. rose to global dominance. And who better to start with than Carli Lloyd - one of the game's greatest competitors and a key figure in that evolution?From the early struggles for recognition to back-to-back World Cup triumphs, Lloyd's career mirrors the relentless fight for respect and progress in the women's game. She takes us inside the mindset that made her a two-time World Cup winner, an Olympic gold medallist, and the architect of one of the most iconic performances in women's football history - her stunning hat-trick in the 2015 World Cup final.Thank you for joining us. If you enjoy the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.In this final chapter of our series, we complete the journey that began with Gary Neville reflecting on the legacy of the Busby Babes. We explored who they were before the 1958 Munich Air Disaster, the tragic day itself, and now, we turn to the aftermath: How Manchester United rose again.Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take you through the incredible story of resilience and redemption. After recovering from his own life-threatening injuries, Sir Matt Busby rebuilt his beloved club, guiding them from devastation to glory. With the emergence of new stars like George Best and the leadership of Bobby Charlton, United's revival culminated in their crowning moment in 1968, when they became the first English club to lift the European Cup - just a decade after their darkest day.Thank you for joining us. If you've enjoyed the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.In last week's episode, we told the story of the rise of the Busby Babes, their brilliance, and their final match before tragedy struck. Today, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take you through the darkest day in Manchester United's history: 6 February 1958.At Munich-Riem Airport, United's flight stopped to refuel on its way home from Belgrade. After two failed take-off attempts, the third ended in disaster. The crash claimed 23 lives, including eight of Manchester United's finest players. Duncan Edwards fought for survival but died 15 days later. Manager Sir Matt Busby was left critically injured - the club's future uncertain.In this episode, Jonathan and Rob reconstruct the events of that fateful day - and explore the immediate aftermath; the heartbreak, the shock, and how Manchester United Football Club somehow carried on.On Friday, we will have the final part: How Sir Matt Busby's Manchester United rose again.If you're enjoying the series, please subscribe and leave a five-star review. Thank you for listening. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.Following Gary Neville's tribute to the triumph and tragedy of the Busby Babes on the anniversary week of the Munich Air Disaster, we begin a three-part series on how the tragedy shaped the future of Manchester United.In Part One, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper explore who the Busby Babes were, how the term came to be, and how Sir Matt Busby built his legendary team. They discuss the club's pioneering youth system, Bobby Charlton's journey to becoming a United supporter, and the importance of developing young talent. Among them was Duncan Edwards, regarded as one of England's greatest footballers at the time, whose life was tragically cut short in 1958.The episode closes with the team's final match before the fateful Munich Air Disaster.Next week, It Was What It Was presents a special episode focusing on the Munich Air Disaster, its immediate aftermath, and how Matt Busby's rebuilt side laid the foundation for the Manchester United we know today.If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.This week former Manchester United captain Gary Neville joins us to look back on one of the most momentous and tragic events in football history: The Munich air disaster of 1958.Neville discusses the lasting significance of the tragedy - and how Sir Matt Busby rebuilt the club, leading them to European Cup glory just a decade after its darkest day.Gary shares stories with Jonathan and Rob - including how he was raised to honour the Busby Babes as a young fan and as a player - and how their legacy helped shape the modern Manchester United.Later this week, we'll bring you the first instalment of our mini-series on the disaster, exploring who the Busby Babes were before that fateful night.If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.Austrian footballer Matthias Sindelar was one of the greats of the game but his mysterious death in 1939 at the age of just 35 became a hugely contested issue in the darkest era of Austrian history. Was he murdered because he objected to the Nazis? Did he chose to end his life unable to countenance living under Hitler? Or was he the victim of a tragic accident? And what role had his girlfriend Camilla Castagnola, found dead alongside him, played?Join Jonathan and Rob in the second and final part as they separate fact from fiction in the life of a lesser known great….If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast.Austrian footballer Matthias Sindelar was one of the greats of the game but his mysterious death in 1939 at the age of just 35 became a hugely contested issue in the darkest era of Austrian history. Was he murdered because he objected to the Nazis? Did he chose to end his life unable to countenance living under Hitler? Or was he the victim of a tragic accident? And what role had his girlfriend Camilla Castagnola, found dead alongside him, played?Join Jonathan and Rob as they separate fact from fiction in the life of a lesser known great….Our finale is out on Friday!If you're enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was.Jonathan and Rob continue exploring the extraordinary legacy of Bill Nicholson's push and run game at Spurs and its relationship with Cruyff, Ajax, Barça and Total Football.In Part 4, Nicholson guides Spurs to the first league and cup double of the 20th century and Spurs become the first British club to win a European trophy.Don't forget to go back and listen to the rest of this series. Parts one and two feature Spurs royalty Steve Perryman!If you're enjoying It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was.Jonathan and Rob continue their dive into the career of Tottenham's legendary manager and one of the founding fathers of modern football: Bill Nicholson. Don't forget to go back and listen to parts one and two with special guest and Spurs royalty Steve Perryman!If you're enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was.It's time for part two of Jonathan and Rob's chat with Spurs legend Steve Perryman about the club's legendary manager and one of the founding fathers of modern football: Bill Nicholson. Hear more from Steve as he tells us backstage stories and insights on Nicholson from the training ground, the dressing room and White Hart Lane. Don't forget to go back and listen to part one first if you missed it. If you're enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was.This week, Jonathan and Rob are joined by Steve Perryman, Tottenham Hotspur's record appearance holder, to talk about legendary Spurs manager Bill Nicholson. From transforming Spurs into serial winners - to hilarious changing room stories - Steve takes us behind the scenes of one of the most successful sides of the 20th century.Join us on Friday for Part Two!If you're enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was - for Part Two of our look back at The FA Cup's most memorable Third Round upsets! Jonathan and Rob return to tell the stories behind five more iconic moments from football's oldest cup competition - before the pair choose their ultimate Third Round shock. Please go back and listen to Part One if you missed it!If you're enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was - where it's time to talk some of The FA Cup's most memorable Third Round shocks! The FA Cup is synonymous with dreams and giant-killings, and nothing captures its essence better than the Third Round proper. Jonathan and Rob bring us their favourite ‘cupsets' and the stories that have cemented them in FA Cup folklore. Don't forget to join us for Part Two on Friday!If you're enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back to It Was What It Was and Happy New Year! In today's episode, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson delve into the origins of VAR with author Daisy Christodoulou.Her latest book, I Can't Stop Talking About VAR, discusses its profound impact on the sport, and whether it was designed to enhance football - or if football is now adapting to fit VAR. The evolution of football has never felt more immediate or impactful.If you're enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

New's Eve Year 1991. Manchester United are on course to win the title for the first time since 1967. It's Sir Alex Ferguson's 50th birthday party, but it's a small, understated affair because United play QPR at Old Trafford the next day. A comfortable home win is expected for United to go top again - but it didn't work out that way... Join one of the stars of that game, Andy Sinton, to discuss what happened next, in perhaps the most famous New Year's Day game in modern English football.If you're enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Christmas Eve, 1914. A cold, crisp, moonlit night in Flanders.British and German soldiers are dug into opposing trenches in a hellish shelled-out landscape, strewn with rotting corpses. But an unfamiliar sound is heard from the German trenches: “Stille Nacht, Heilige Nacht” is being sung to welcome the birth of Christ.The British respond with their own carols, seasonal greetings are exchanged across the trenches and troops tentatively move out into No Man's Land. Gifts are exchanged, friends are made and then, allegedly, a football match ensued!Is this mythic tale - a staple of primary school history lessons - actually true? Or is it mere legend? Was any football really played? If so, is it perhaps the most significant match of all time? Rob and Jonathan reveal the true story behind what may be football's finest moment.If you're enjoying the It Was What It Was, please hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and consider leaving us a five-star review to help others discover the show. Thank you for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.