conventioNOT Podcast

Michael Wayne Foster breaks molds. Foster was a teacher in the high schools of his hometown when he started life after college. Pretty normal, but this larger than life dude is far from normal.  It wasn't long after spending time in classrooms that he was presented with an opportunity for love... on season 3 of The Bachelorette. Earnestly, this dude packed up his things and moved to Hollywood.  He didn't find the romantic love of his life on NBC in 2005... she would come much later. What he did find is that his fascination with the entertainment industry was, well... fostered. Fast forward nearly 20 years, and he's appeared in countless movies and sitcoms by now and graced the cover of over 900 romance novels.  If that last bullet point interests you, take a minute to download this episode. It's one of the podcast instant classics and Michael shares some really thought provoking detail about the way that production is changing... for the worst.  Escape from Status Quo with Michael Wayne Foster is available on all major podcast platforms. Don't forget to subscribe to conventioNOT to hear every new episode.

Dan Sinnott Sr has experienced more in a single lifetime than most families. He was a young man when he realized that the life of a Detroit Police Officer - and the negative experiences life as a cop brought wasn't for him. Sure, lots of guys switch careers... but this guy, a man with a desire for adventure, decided to be an educator. You'll have to listen to the episode for the details, but Dan eventually moves halfway across the world, young family in tow. It's pretty obvious somewhere along the line, he also honed his talents as a storyteller.  Mike and McD appreciate everyone who comes on the show. Dan, however, is a little more than a guest. He's Mike's dad. Interviewing your father is truly a special gift and pops presents story after story from very interesting times in America's history. Any listener that knows Mike can clearly hear where his personality and love for details was born. Listen to this instant conventioNOT classic now, available wherever you listen to podcasts. 

When Taylor Duerr first stepped onto the professional fight scene, he was already kind of a big deal. Not just because of his size, because of his heart. He's had plenty of nicknames in his career and Duerr, a former cruiserweight champion is the star of a newly released documentary, "We Can Be Heroes." Taylor joins the guys just before the launch of the film and the "Machine Gun" fires on about some of the cool stuff that happens when promoting a movie, his true love for his family and opens up about the real struggles he's faced as a recovering addict. Yea, you read that right, one of the Detroit's biggest and baddest fighters faces more than opponents in the ring. He carries a monkey on his back too. And he made a movie about it.  You'll have to download the episode to hear more... but if you like stories about work ethic and comeback kids, let this dude inspire you. Check out all of conventioNOT episodes wherever you listen to podcasts. Like our stuff? Subscribe. We'll keep serving it. 

When Jim Baudino first told his friends that he was leaving his acclaimed automotive career to get into the cannibis business, his friends undoubtedly wondered what he was thinking. The thing is, he'd always been looking for something more than traditional route for a kid from metro detroit who went to the University of Michigan and UCLA.  Then he got into busines with Snoop Dog. No seriously, Baudino jumped from branding Toyota Camry's to helping a gernerational icon reframe an industry. What listeners will find is that the dude still hasn't looked back and carries his inspiration through to his family, passions and lifestyle.  These days, the US consumes more than $15 billion in recreational pot and neither Jim, or the industry are slowing. Today, he spends his time searching and building trends. You'll have to listen to the episode to hear the guys and Baudino get into financing and what he's most excited about in the world of weed in the next decade.  conventioNOT is available on all podcast channels, YouTube and LinkedIn. First time listener? Take a minute to dig into our archives and hear 100+ hours of interviews with humans like Jim's.   

Dana Frost wakes up every day feeling life's full effect. As a young person, she lost her spouse, Brad to cancer, fought her own battle with the disease and faced the realities that most people don't see until much later in life. Thankfully, this cheerful guest found time to sit with Mike and McD on this host-favorite episode. The thing about Dana is that she's channelled the tragedy and has learned to be vulnerable in ways that we thing most listeners should pay attention to. Her husband left her 100 days after he was diagnosed and her inspiration afterward is unbelievable. Frost started the Forced Joy Project as a way to help herself… and others find happiness after loss.  She never thought she was cut out for grief and this hour with Dana doesn't just focus on the sad things - the guys are able to hear about her new and exciting endeavors, throw around coping strategies and more.  We're really proud to have met her and experienced her attitude, smile and shining light. You'll have to push play to find out more.  conventioNOT is available on all major podcast channels, the gram and all the spots you look for quality content. Subscribe or browse our archives for more great conversations just like this one. 

Matt Allen lovingly recalls the days when his work was as simple as cleaning up oil spills. This lifelong scientist and creative thinker has now moved on to larger pastures, so to speak. Mike was excited to reconnect with Matt and to introduce Ryan, who he knew would instantly be interested by this guest.  Certainly the episodes of conventioNOT lean toward science, data and nature - and this one touches all of our pillars quickly. Growing up in Canada, Matt talks about setting up an executive career that he enjoys today and shares infinite wisdom about traveling the globe from his home outside Toronto. These days, he leads his organization.  That doesn't lessen the dedication and ethic that he brings every day. Matt carries the same diligence over to his hobbies, including a somewhat functional farm that includes pigs, goats and plenty of detail oriented tasks to keep everybody wondering…. what will this guy do next?

Just like that, conventioNOT is nearing 100 hours of content. Funny to think that through all those interviews, teary stories and podcast bliss - Mike & McD have never recorded in the same room. After almost a decade of residence in Hawaii, Ryan finally made it out to share some sun and surf in the Aloha state.    We spent the week consuming all that Oahu has to offer, from Honolulu's Kith Store to Kona beans and somehow Mike convinced Ryan to be on the hot seat and relive his best moments on the island. After poking some fun, we get deep on linking culture, satire and cynicism. Ryan's low-lites and critique gets hilarious quick, picking apart island tourists and agriculture.    McD's bourgeois outfits and style gets a little poke and Mike informs Ryan that he actually threw him in the surfing deep end when the couples took their vacation to the beach. Longtime listeners get more about the same but different personalities of our hosts, up to owning basically the same truck.  Don't worry - this isn't just an episode about a dope vacation to make you jealous. There are some valid travel tips for Hawaii if you're considering a visit. We cover inner-island travel, volcanoes and many of the coolest things you can see there. We threw some extra pics of the vacation up on the instagram channel if you want to explore further. Don't forget to look us up and follow @conventioNOT_Podcast everywhere. 

Flint Mitchell is a unique guest who is busy stacking perspective. He's an engineer, scientist, surfer, podcaster… and now author. What's really cool about this guy is that he's humble about the way opportunities arrive in his world. Listeners will find that this guy's world started in a place that most of us are familiar with, but don't really understand: the San Fransisco Peninsula, AKA Silicon Valley.  He shares a bit about the very real perspective that growing up in the Valley can create. Just like the factories of Detroit, it's not all roses. Mike and McD are somehow surprised by this, leading to insights and a marvelous self investigation from Mitchel. It's easy to see that this guy is more interested in improving the world than anything else - even if he does like the Giants more than the Oakland A's.  Recently,  Flint published his first book, Seeking Authenticity. Much of this episode talks about his journey and excitement to release his thoughts and expand his world. The guys go all over the globe of subjects with this interview and we think our listeners will dig it.  conventioNOT is available on all podcast channels, YouTube and LinkedIn. First time listener? Take a minute to dig into our archives and hear 100+ hours of interviews with humans like Flint. 

Eric Mannix is a competitor. Lots of senior leaders at big companies are. The CFO of Blue Water Systems is dedicated to growing the success of the manufacturing plants that he now runs. But there's something a little different about Eric's story. What a lot of guys like Eric don't share when walking the halls of facilities are why they do what they do. This episode sets that old-school mentality aside. Eric operates his life on a really cool philosophy: try something hard every day. When he found himself in a misaligned internship just after college, he deployed that Detroit-bred idealism to start building bridges between factory floors and offices.  Mannix shares with Mike and McD that he sees humility as a birthright after growing up a kid of Zug Island worker who spent his nights and weekends playing defense for the legendary Little Caesar's youth hockey club. When he got cut from the team at age 16, he didn't give up his lifelong sport… he adapted it.  Now, nearly twenty some years later, Eric instills that do something hard everyday mentality in his kids and shares how he competes in ultra endurance sports today. You read that right, this guy doesn't just get up hours before dawn for a workday, he trains and competes at the highest level in events like the Leadville endurance series and can teach you how to drive a Zamboni machine.   If you just found conventioNOT through this episode, make sure you check out out our other episodes, just like this one on all podcast platforms. conventionot.com

Michigan State Supreme Court Justice Richard Bernstein joins the guys and holds court about issues near and dear to heart, career and his strong faith. Sure, the guy has been elected to one of the highest courts in America, but that's only happened over the past few years and this conversation is very special.  Prior to his current gig, Bernstein became a Phi Beta Kappa graduate of the University of Michigan and earned his law degree from the Northwestern University School of Law. Justice Bernstein has also been elected for an eight-year term on the Board of Governors at Wayne State University.  He also has served as an adjunct professor in the political science department at the University of Michigan. Luckily, he chooses to forego listing his resume for listeners during the episode, rather diving into his fire and the reason he drives so hard to create peace and opportunities for humans on earth.  He continues to be a tireless advocate for disability rights as an attorney and runs marathons. That's right, this blind guy, who stacks recognition and accolades like pancakes also runs thousands of miles.  Mike and McD are left speechless more than once as Richard talks about how he stays motivated. Truly something to hear, straight from the Judge's chambers.  If you haven't subscribed to conventioNOT or found your way to us through Richard's camp, you can quick-launch your favorite podcast app at www.conventionot.com. The show is available anywhere you listen to media. 

Lacey Trost is clearly one of our favorite guests in recent history. Her story and humility are one of a kind as far as conventioNOT guests go. After growing up in Florida, she and her wife undertook one of the biggest goals of many youngsters in America: moving away from home.  The thing is, Trost was just getting started down her list of personal goals  then and she hasn't looked back since. She opens up with Mike and McD about the struggles of Imposter Syndrome and her drive to succeed. Unlike many of our guests - she isn't dedicated with her title or her salary. She's focused on doing the right thing and helping others around her.  And she's serious about it.  Lately, she's turned her focus to fertility and some of the policies that trouble same-sex couples who are trying to have a baby. There are plenty of people in the world who react to atrocities like those she's discovered… but Lacey isn't wired that way. She decided to act.  This episode isn't all serious sperm speculation though… our listeners will love Lacey's kind heart and hear some really funny stories about Beer Pong tournaments and the growing up in Florida. If you haven't subscribed to conventioNOT or found your way to us through Lacey's camp, you can quick-launch your favorite podcast app at www.conventionot.com 

The guys catch up one on one for their annual summer-ending episode. It gets a little deep, including a how-to-travel guide when living out of state, new show formating and some really deep discussion about recent losses in Mike's life. It's not all heavy-hearted, Mike and McD save space to dive into seeing boobs on a plane, couples travel ideas and even a secret or two that longtime listners  will probably pick up on. We're committed to publishing more of these 1:1 style shows over the next year.  If you haven't subscribed yet, click the button on whichever podcast chanel you prefer. We're on all of them!

Graham Meriwether started his career as a filmaker in an interesting way, chasing bodies around the streets of Detroit. Even though the young documentatian hadn't found his calling, he knew that he was inspired enough to create content that mattered.  By the time he turned his focus to his bigger films like American Meat and Farmers For America, he'd filmed countless dead bodies and foraged the Detroit Police Department's Delta Zones and produced content for The Julliard School of Dance.  American Meat eventually became his first theatrical release and It contrasts industrial feedlots with Joel Salatin's Polyface Farms, a model where rotational grazing and local distribution give hope that a different, more humane and environmentally conscious way to farm may indeed save the day…and our future. In 2010, Meriwether founded the non-profit organization, Leave It Better Foundation, whose mission is to empower youth to make the Earth a better place. They have helped build 10 gardens in New York City schools, and taught over 2,000 students compost, plant and harvest through their own community garden in the Bronx. They even distribute cameras to schools so students can document their journeys. It's an incredible story that Meriwether tells - and it's pretty inspirational. If you are new to conventioNOT or our guests, be sure to listen to the end to hear about his upcoming work and a few other exciting interviews featuring Mike and McD. conventioNOT is available wherever podcasts are. Subscribe today. 

Johnny Gillespie is a true revolutionary. To state it simply, he has developed a system to teach people how to move more efficiently and safely. He also has has a decorated educational career and even runs and Yoga Certification Program at his facility, Empowered Wellness Studio in Wilmington Delaware. The thing is... he doesn't fit the mold. And he's proud of it. Mike and McD are eager to get their questions out about how and why he's followed the path that he has. It's easy to see how Johnny inspires people - and he's kind enough to talk about the journey.  The episode is about more than just yoga and Johnny gets deep about his desires, his drives and the types of humility that he teaches. A hardcore Philadelphia original, his love for all things Philly keeps him grounded and he shares about the battle to stay that way - even while suiting up and heading out on the ice week after week.  Subscribe and listen to the show wherever you download podcasts. We're on that platform :) You can also click on http://conventionot.com to launch your favorite show app.    

Dave Regan has been able to experience more than one life in his years. Growing up in the times and neighborhoods that built the America we walk in today, Dave's journey includes nights on horseback, saddling up a chopper and logging trip after trip.  The thing is - he was doing these things while spending his days building the ads that spread Detroit's auto industry across the country. After living a full life as an adman, he turned his trail toward becoming an educator, helping to lead the industry into the next frontier. Today he spends his hours teaching advertising students at Michigan State University, where he's been for nearly 20 years. Guess what? He touches on all these things in the episode - and we've left a couple things out in this written synopsis. You'll have to listen to hear the full story. Listeners who stick around til the end won't be disappointed. conventioNOT is on all podcast channels. Quick launch your favorite app by clicking here. 

Our love for food and flavors is pretty evident in the conventioNOT episode archives. Mike and McD have interviewed cookbook authors, pit masters and chefs more than a few times.  The only thing tough about bringing chefs Chris Warsow, Lawrence LaPianta & Will Branch for this expert roundtable was narrowing them down for the episode. We even pulled this one off without a technical hitch.  Those familiar with the show have heard their origin stories and these three showed up ready to break down all things food and even get a little personal about the challenges facing their businesses, insight for the future and their favorite gadgets.  Mike and McD talk a lot about expert episodes - and this foundational collection of food guests lives up to the hype. Available now anywhere you stream podcasts. 

Closing 2020, an idea was born: to let our listeners hear some of the behind-the-scenes commentary about the many guests who decide to share their time and record stories about the details of their lives. This episode is the second rendition of our favorite clips from previous guests and conversations. You'll find some really cool snippets from the detailed stories we get to hear nearly every week.  New conventioNOT listener? This one is a nice primer to the other episodes of our show. Make sure you subscribe and review us on your podcast channel.  You can find us anywhere you listen to podcasts - or by quick launching your favorite app at http://conventionot.com  

Jay Shuang is one of the most humble social media influencers  you will meet. @shanghaisole is his handle on Instagram and if you think this guy is just another sneaker head, think again. A fifth-grade teacher and stellar guy, Jay uses his network and late-budding shoe addiction started as an obsession during undergrad to connect and inspire with his students and the world.  McD is again enthralled with the depth of this guy's knowledge and Mike takes a couple swipes at the hobby of stacking sneaker boxes. Neither of them are phased and Jay goes on to explain how and why he does what he does.  The international school that Jay teaches and coaches at comes up - and we learn a bit about where Mike's roots came from as well as the background on these types of learning institutions. Even thought he might have been the youngest teacher when he got hired, Jay has brought his influence and love for all things shoe to his people. It's truly an amazing tale.  To Jay, it's all about relationships. To our listeners, you'll have to tune in to hear these awesome stories and details about Jay becoming who he is.  Subscribe and listen to the show wherever you download podcasts. We're on that platform :) You can also click on http://conventionot.com to launch your favorite show app.

Brett M Cooper's early career in global businesses is nothing to shake a stick at. He focused on process, lean organizations and the actions it takes to be highly profitable. Through his time, he noticed that something was often overlooked: the social skills required by leaders to motivate people.  Fair warning, McD and Brett start to really nerd out on their commonalities before Mike interrupts and brings the two back from outer space - and some kind of deep space nine discussion. Thankfully, this makes space for Brett to talk about his passions as a dad, an author and the person who is responsible for thousands of professionals who have worked with his business, Integris Performance Advisors. conventioNOT listeners don't need to be part of a big company with deep pockets to take advantage of Cooper's teachings. After listening to the show, you'll find that he gives a FREE offer to get an e-book or audio book copy of his new book, Solving the People Problem: Essential Skills you Need to Lead and Succeed in Today's Workplace.  The book, co-authored with his business partner, Evans Kerrigan, is chock full of real advice from experienced people. Mike and McD learn pretty quick that Brett's patience, candor and demeanor are all part of his superpowers.  Subscribe and listen to the show wherever you download podcasts. We're on that platform :) You can also click on http://conventionot.com to launch your favorite show app.

Just typing out Neel Agrawal's resume would burst the character limit on most Podcast platforms that stream conventioNOT's episodes. Thankfully, the Lord Huron collaborator joins Mike & McD in an exhilarating biography that spans Neel's youth, lugging a violin case in cold Michigan winters, hustling through law school, becoming a world-class musician and even playing on stage at Coachella. Hard to believe that this social justice warrior can make time to do what he does - until you hear the details about what fuels him. Intersectionality is a newer buzz word that Agrawal explains well and embodies even more passionately. It's not just another cheesy title invented by the conventioNOT production team. Neel has spent his life battling the challenges of intersectionality. His calm passion and unbelievable effort to stay disciplined is really something special.  Our listeners who love a name-drop or two might be shocked on some of the musical accolades that his network has acquired. It seems that Neel's life isn't so much focused on the things he'll acquire on this earth. He explains with incredible candor on why that's true and how he keeps his contributions to the world. Fair warning… this episode gets very deep. Neel's not your typical jurist doctor turned professor turned researcher turned rockstar. There really isn't a typical bone in his body. Tune in or click on http://conventionot.com to launch your favorite show app.

Our hosts have spent a lot of interesting times together. Now and again, a story slips out about yesteryear and Mike or McD recall memories from shared times.  Over the holidays closing 2020, an idea was born: to let our listeners hear some of the behind-the-scenes commentary about the many guests who decide to share their time and record stories about the details of their lives. Our team doesn't take these times lightly - and there's even a variance of opinion or two that come out as we look back on snippets from conventioNOT's archive.  Listen up. Our repeat listeners will hear a story or two that they may have forgotten. If you're new to our podcast, tune in to hear some really cool and inspirational stories.   

Co-hosts Mike and McD get back to basics with our first episode of the year. The guys don't usually get into politics, but they do share the happenings in their lives and the things we want to accomplish in 2021.  They're thankful for 2020's wins and curious about quarantine challenges state by state and dive into a couple goals - including Ryan's lates bourbon trip and new mastermind group. Most people are streaming more TV now... and listeners get a treat to hear about what we're watching and why. A couple predictions from McD later, it seems like we've got 2021 all figured out - with just 11 months to go! This might be an episode for seasoned listeners - or a chance to get to know our cohosts as they enter the third year of the show. you can find us anywhere - or quick launch your own favorite app by clicking on http://conventionot.com

Will announces himself as a cofounder of Corridor Sausage. The thing is, listeners will find depth in discussion very quickly that plunges through choices, successes, disasters and a company to company merger.  Mike and McD aren't strangers to Will - they all started their adult lives in East Lansing at Michigan State University. After a couple decades without catching up, the experienced Chef breaks down his growth as a person, business owner and creator. If you're in the midwest, you can find his sausages in a bunch of stores. If you're considering a trip here, he even gives a few hints on where you might find some of the best food in Detroit.  We couldn't think of a better guest to finish off the 2020 conventioNOT season with. All of the people that make the podcast work are grateful for our listeners and contributors. We try to keep the show popping and we hope you'll take a minute to subscribe and rate and share the show.  Hit our quick launch link by clicking on http://conventionot.com 

Javid Jah's early infatuation with lettering and his culture isn't necessarily a rare thing about this lifelong creator. conventioNOT listeners will be pleasantly surprised in the honesty and transparency about how he took the angles he has in his career.  Almost every creative has depth behind their work. Javid's career as a muralist, street artist and now working with living spaces all combine to a cornucopia of beauty. This written explanation of what gets spoken on this episode just doesn't do it justice.  Take a few minutes to digest this episode. The nuggets of advice and pure vulnerability are really something special. conventioNOT is available on any podcast channel or by clicking the link http://conventionot.com 

Matthew Yahes from Extend Your Team has stacked years of self-starting experience into his resume. After beginning his career with one of the Big 5 Consulting firms - he quickly realized that his power in starting from scratch was real. So much so, that when he entered his first startup, he was able to be the center of the machine for a nationwide restaurant franchise.  It didn't get to the spot of development his efforts had intended - but it started to teach him the valuable lessons that he shares on this episode. What Mike and McD pickup on quickly is that Matthew isn't one for taking a soft entry. From a recent investment into an e-commerce business, to a new love for kiteboarding, Yahes gets really honest with the guys and shares some sage advice to conventioNOT listeners. You'll have to tune in to hear more.  We're available anywhere you can listen to podcasts - and by quick launching your favorite app from our homepage: www.conventionot.com  

Jorden Rieke is an essential worker. She battles day and night in her ICU to help care for the communities around her. Many clinicians fairly end their efforts at the end of each shift. For Jorden, her efforts are just beginning. Now an insulin dependent diabetic and advocate, she learned about fighting her health during the earliest days of her education at Case Western University in Cleveland. In classic conventioNOT format, the guys get after some personal details with Rieke, trying to understand what fuels her.  WARNING: It's pretty hard to sit through this episode and not be inspired. You'll probably want to listen in the morning. 

Marvin Williams, Mike and Ryan have known each other for more than 20 years. In 1999, covered in Spartan Green and the smell of youthful exuberance, this trio came together in the streets of East Lansing, Michigan. Marvin and McD have worked through several businesses together and are currently scaling Williams' company, Logical Owl. Most of our listeners know quite a bit about different projects and companies that our hosts hustle on - but Mike and Marvin haven't caught up much in the past decade. This episode is really dives deep with a mid-career entrepreneur who shares honestly. Don't spend your time checking out some some self-help guru who has spent several years speculating on how and why the world works the way it does. conventioNOT brings another qualified expert on creating something from scratch.  True to that point, one of Marvin's first pieces of advice is to STEAL what you can. It's not necessary to reinvent the wheel in business. Let us be clear, this dude isn't suggesting corporate espionage. He's suggesting to get in where you fit in and on this episode, he's brutally honest about. You'll have to listen to hear more and we want our subscribers to decide why Marvin and his endeavors come up as winners time and time again.   

At the heart of conventioNOT Podcast's focus is a love for greatness. Time and again our listeners hear from guests who blaze new trails in industry, break gender barriers or just flat out create something that hadn't existed before.  The Underwear Episode puts over 150 years of experienced contributors (and their nether regions) together to discuss various brands they've been testing. True, there are plenty of jokes and awkward pauses in this one, but we really are applying a serious tone to upping one's game down below.  Certainly, Tommy John, SAXX, LuLu Lemon or Seperatec had nothing to do with us creating this one and our consistent fans should expect some really specific descriptions of at least one of these contenders. The guys even get into the costs and preferences of materials.  You'll have to turn in to hear which pair(s) that the guys ultimately recommend and we thing think it's really worth tuning in til the end. Also featuring our returning guest, Dan Sinnott.

Dani Merritt's creativity always helped deliver respite in a challenging world. Growing up in a tough environment around Cleveland, Ohio, Elusion Clothing Brand's founder stumbled a little before she started printing thousands of pieces of clothing and creating a brand that melds with professional athletes and hype beasts worldwide.  The thing is, Elusion isn't another fly-by-night brand that's built on the back of social media. It's been around since the days of myspace and it's hard to imagine some of the challenges that Dani alludes to in this show. When she dove into creating comics decades ago, she never thought that her artwork would lead to build the type of conscious community that she supports today.  conventioNOT's listeners and drama fans will find a couple cool stories about working with NFL players, challenges with investment commitments and some of the inequities that Merritt and her husband face on a daily basis while running the company. This hour-long gem is a very special episode. Join Mike & Scrilla with Dani Merritt - available wherever you listen to podcasts or by clicking on http://conventioNOT.com

Ramping back up for the fall season, Chris, Mike & McD spice it up with what some of us thought was a normal Sunday afternoon. This was until Chris drops some news that he is afraid he might lose his job for his behavior.  Still a little confused, Mike & McD quickly learn that he's playing with them and Chris' love for surprises comes quick with the introduction of a song he's been working on about the show.  It's live on all of the streaming services - but you can hear the new show music hear first on this special transitional show. It's a new time at conventioNOT Podcast and we're excited to continue to grow. Make sure you check out the new artwork and the story of how it came to be on the latest episode.  Available now wherever you listen to podcasts, or quick launch your own podcast app by clicking on http://conventionot.com  Episode Transcription:  Chris Harris  00:08 What's up, everybody? Thanks so much for listening. On today's episode, I've got a surprise. And that surprise is I wrote a song for the podcast and Mike and Ryan have no idea. Yeah, that's right. I wrote a song for the podcast. And Mike and Ryan have no clue. So I'm going to surprise him. And we'll see how it turns out. Anyway, sit back, relax, and enjoy these tunes. Peace. Hey, it's good to see you guys again.   Michael Sinnott  00:46 Hi, Chris. Hi, Ryan. Happy Sunday.   Ryan McDevitt  00:51 Sunday show day. That's right show day. I know y'all I so you know,   Chris Harris  00:58 guys, I don't really like work too much on the weekend. It's kind of a lie, but it's also kind of true. Um, but sometimes my job requires me to actually do some work on the weekend. And what I have for y'all today is kind of wild. I'm hoping I don't lose my job. So let's just start with that. Right?   Michael Sinnott  01:19 Definitely start with that. Nothing better   Ryan McDevitt  01:22 than firing up a Sunday if   Michael Sinnott  01:24 for my personal interest you really got me interested when you said I hope I don't lose my job because of this. I'm like, wait, what what are we doing? What are we about to do here? Exactly. Now I'm listening.   Chris Harris  01:36 So um, I know we didn't like talk beforehand. I'm off you know OFF AIR about kind of what I was going to show you but I wanted to really just get your natural reaction when you see some of the stuff I'm dealing with at work and then we can maybe have a discussion Oh, wow, that worked for you.   Michael Sinnott  01:53 Well, hold on real quick Chris you got to give a five second reminder to maybe some of our guests who don't know you as well as as others do, like just give them a quick title, your synopsis or your title and role.   Chris Harris  02:08 Okay, well, my title is podcast host who's probably about to get fired. I was gonna say you know,   Michael Sinnott  02:14 where are you   Chris Harris  02:19 Alright, here we go. Let's roll with it. hope this works   Michael Sinnott  02:27 so I'm nervous because I know where Chris works I just I'm trying to like fill the sand a little bit because I don't my man here he's he's very diverse. Um, I don't know if he's messing with us or what but   [Intro]  McD is all business  I know Mike got my back  $crilla on the track  [Chorus]  ConventioNOT  What that means is unconventional  Been in the game a few  So comprehend what imma give to you  Cause in an instant you  Can turn your hustle to an institute  I can't stop  I'm on top  Because I'm ConventioNOT  What that means is unconventional  Been in the game a few  So comprehend what imma give to you  Cause in an instant you  Can turn your hustle to an institute  I can't stop  I'm on top  Because I'm ConventioNOT  [Verse]  Immaculate how I be rapping it  When I be spitting, you know that you loving it Covet it, nothing above it  So you can go run with it  Now let's get back to it  Back to the basics  Carving out spaces  Practice patience for situations and all vibrations I want all my eyes can see and imma beat you there I aim for variety like a sneaker head  I'm game ready  Keeping that thang steady  Climbing over the dragon  Now who wanna bang with me?  Will you grow and change with me?  Go through the same with?  For those that don't grow  They known to remain shifty I'm working with all I've got  So when you see me, you know what I'm bout  [Chorus]  ConventioNOT  What that means is unconventional  Been in the game a few  So comprehend what imma give to you  Cause in an instant you  Can turn your hustle to an institute  I can't stop  I'm on top  Because I'm ConventioNOT  What that means is unconventional  Been in the game a few  So comprehend what imma give to you  Cause in an instant you  Can turn your hustle to an institute  I can't stop  I'm on top  Because I'm ConventioNOT  [Verse]  I do this for the people, people like school teachers Who think out the closet for causes that do reach us And spark the young engineers  Who interfere with what society's instilled in here You keep me grounded dog  And hold me down like my yogis hitting that's downward dog Then it's back to business when I'm with my counterparts No sitting down, so we walking around  Real talk, they talk about us, we the talk of the town It's our chance, we contrast, but I ask  That you pay attention while you listen to this podcast I'm working with all I've got  So when you see me you know what I'm bout  [Chorus]  ConventioNOT  What that means is unconventional  Been in the game a few  So comprehend what imma give to you  Cause in an instant you Can turn your hustle to an institute I can't stop  I'm on top  Because I'm ConventioNOT  What that means is unconventional Been in the game a few  So comprehend what imma give to you Cause in an instant you  Can turn your hustle to an institute I can't stop  I'm on top  Because I'm ConventioNOT  [Outro]  Yeah  Shoutout to Wailer  Carter  Anna  Junior  McD  Mike  $crilla  Mayhem Music     Michael Sinnott  05:34 what? I don't? I don't know what to say. I'm like,   Chris Harris  05:40 I know that was a lot to just throw it.   Michael Sinnott  05:44 Move scrilla I was not ready for that at all.   Ryan McDevitt  05:48 I kind of thought something had happened in your life. That was a negative. And so, no, it's just the   Chris Harris  05:57 positive. And so what happened?   Ryan McDevitt  06:00 What do I think is that I teared up about the middle middle of that. So maybe maybe now that I've got myself together, I could give a little bit of an idea about what that is. So a long time ago, we started to work together, right? It's really been, it's almost been a year that we've been working together. Not Not Not Not too much. Further will be a year. And Chris, we asked him to put together an opener for the song. And I think both Mike and I realized about a month ago that we had never had such a piece of work created for ourselves. I don't know to buy a piece of artwork or to listen to a song. But man, even Carter and whaler got shout outs there.   Michael Sinnott  06:46 Yeah, man. Yeah, I you know, I'm rarely at a loss for words. And even when I am at a loss for words, that I just fill the space with words until I know what I was gonna say. But like, dude, my wife is not in the room right now. So she's not gonna feel jealous of like, how touched and like, dude, and not just touched emotionally. But how in the hell do you do that? How could you do that? How can you talk that fast? Like, I need to listen to that so many more times. Because my, my slow ass I caught the obvious stuff, the hook the hustle into an institute like, dude, Chris,   Chris Harris  07:33 I think we can play it one more time. What am I yeah,   Michael Sinnott  07:36 what am I supposed to say? I mean, that was good.   Chris Harris  07:40 So let me explain sort of like what,   Michael Sinnott  07:42 yeah, walk us through your process, man. How did you do that?   Chris Harris  07:47 So, of course, the three of us talk like multiple times throughout the week. And I can't remember if it was Ryan, or Mike that brought it up first, like, Hey, you know, just putting that that bugging year again about the song. And I got to thinking, and I had already actually started on one version of this introduction song. But then I just scrapped it. So yesterday, I just had his creative juices flowing. And I said, You know what, I'm going to write this song today. And I was driving around. And typically, I tend to write a lot of songs when I'm driving, not actually while I'm driving, but I just pull over to the side of the road. So really, you know, I was, yeah, yeah, I will pull over to the side of the road. But before I even started to write, I needed a track. And for the viewers, I have a production company with my partner Dan solo bits. It's called mayhem music. So we make a lot of songs for TV and film. And I remember there was something that we pitched to men's wearhouse they wanted this beat that kind of sounded like a roots kind of vibe. And we hadn't used it. So I was like, Yo, I'm going to use this for the convention not trapped. And instead of Dan was actually out of town, so he couldn't get me back. So I had one of my other producer friends, Billy creat recreate that actual track. So Dan was like, Yo, I can get it to you at night. But I'm like, Nah, I need it right now. So my other producer friend recreated dance work with me.   Michael Sinnott  09:16 I mean, that's no, that's no easy task in itself. That's absurd.   Chris Harris  09:23 But I got good people. You know what I'm saying? Clear, he recreates the track. And I'm just going on to drive and I'm just playing it and I'm just like, kind of humming I'm like, convinced. And then and then and then and then and then and then. And I don't have the lyrics yet. But I have, you know, the melody. So I'll make voice memos. And I'll get the lyrics. I'll pull over to the stuff out of row types. Have them sit there for a little bit. Once the juices kind of leave, start driving some more. Oh, oh, yeah. I want to say this, boom, pull over to the side of the row. And that's basically what I did yesterday for about two hours. Do you have a place   Michael Sinnott  10:01 you're going? Or do you literally just like drive around the neighborhoods?   Chris Harris  10:05 Um, I was running some errands. So I had like destinations. But that, you know, I'm driving. So the song isn't even done yet. I was probably about 40% done at this point. And I call the studio and I'm like, Hey, can I get in today? So the main guy that I go to Jim Stewart, he's not working, but his like, I guess, apprentice? I don't know. I don't think that's like disrespectful. Nate is working. And I've worked with Nate before. And it's like, yeah, you come on in. So I tell Nate, All right, I'll be there at three o'clock. But now there's like pressure. I'm like, I gotta finish this. But then   Ryan McDevitt  10:42 you got your appointment to go that guy music, but it's not done.   Chris Harris  10:46 Okay. Not done. But now that I have a time and I know, hey, I need to have this done by 233 o'clock. Pressure was on. And then I just start flowing. So that's what happened. And then when I got to the studio, I'm just feeling it. You know what I mean? I've just, I'm in the zone. And I'm like, Yo, I want y'all to not just like this song. But I want y'all to love this song. You know, I want to really take everything that convention that stands for and try to put it into a song. And that's Dude,   Michael Sinnott  11:18 I need the lyrics. I need it all. Like, I'm gonna   Chris Harris  11:22 I just text you the lyric,   Michael Sinnott  11:23 I'm overwhelmed. Yeah, it's this feeling that I rarely get is being overwhelmed the listeners.   Chris Harris  11:28 For the listeners, you'll be able to find this probably in about a week, actually, maybe now. You can find it on streaming platforms. If you search convention that just like the title of the POC. s in the artists will be mayhem music. So check it out.   Michael Sinnott  11:45 I just Alright, man. Like, I'll go back to the song in a second. But I just want to talk about you for a minute here. And I know you're not, you know, gonna like this. But what is wrong with you, man? Like, this is what this cat did on a Saturday. We didn't. There was no deadline. There's no expectations. Like, we talked about hustle on the show a lot. And I think sometimes we we, um, we don't do that word justice. Right. A lot of people have different interpretations of what hustle means. When we use the word hustle. It's very complimentary. Like To be clear, I never want anyone to think we're like, like, minimizing what they're doing on their weekends by calling it a side hustle or this or that. But like, I cannot wrap my head around the idea of creating something like that. In that time, if you told me you mowed 100 lawns yesterday, I'd be like, Damn, what kind of lawn mower did you have? Right, like, but, but all of that just came from you and your mind and like, collaborating with a couple other people that were clearly as gifted as you are like, dude, I just, it's like, he just showed me a magic trick. I'm not really that interested in it. Like, I want to figure it out. But I know I can't. So I'm just like, in awe. And Chris, Dude, that was like, that's the sweetest, like, most significant, like most amazing thing. I've I've had paintings done to my dog before that I love and like, but I've never had no song written about ours. Silly asses. Like, dude, I don't know what to say. I really don't know. And you didn't say basic job. Like, oh my god, I'm shaking. I   Chris Harris  13:35 mean, I love that you guys not only had me on here as a guest, but that you really have like, open your arms to like, include me as a new host, you know, one of the new hosts of the podcast, so it's like, Hey, man, you know, I want to just show my my gratitude and just say thanks, man, something building here. You know, I love it.   Michael Sinnott  13:56 I better try it a lot harder are doing so more impressive. I gotta I gotta I gotta carry my share row. Ryan. Ryan, are you going crazy right now? Like,   Ryan McDevitt  14:08 yeah, I can't wait to listen to it again. I know, we're I'll do another play of it for the listeners. But everybody knows that. We're just recording this live in our basements and living rooms. And so I really can't wait to break it down. I saw that those lyrics came through on the email too. And I also I heard a couple stanzas there. I can't help as the show's producer, I start to think about like, Okay, well, how would this get to play in? And so for a long time we've been using, you know, we actually had to marvelous Carter on the show, some some episodes go. And we've been using a lot of his infinite audio music. But when I listen to these super produce shows, and when I look at, we don't talk much about the numbers and we kind of have these different personalities. To be frank with our listeners where one of us cares about the numbers a ton, one of us just wants to see what the numbers are and then one of us is like, More of a content person. Now let you figure out which one is dictates themselves. However, however, what I really really was thinking about as I was listening to that is like, Oh man, I cannot wait to take stands a one, two or three to make it this kind of like blend in. So for those of our listeners today who have subscribed to us, they may or may not have noticed that there's a new episode panel, it's always been Mike and I with kind of this little kitschy fist pound thing. But today for this episode, and from now forward, we're making some changes as we go along here. And you'll see that there's a there's a new show cover out there, that includes all three of us. I lovingly call it the, you know, it's a very cartoon oriented cover, right? Yeah. So I call it the King of the Hill cover. I know you're watching. I love Mike judge shows and I watched King of the Hill kind of religiously, it holds up, by the way, always something special about a cartoon that you watch 1520 years later or share. But But man, man, I had goosebumps and then I just had tears on my cheeks. No, like, I don't know about it better way to describe that. When I was listening to it, so yeah,   Chris Harris  16:15 that makes that just warms my heart. Like for real. I mean, I tried to I mean, writing songs for people, organizations, whatever, like this kind of like what I do. And one of the things like I wanted to make sure that I did with this record was make sure that I like put all of us in here in some way. And not just us, but also people that are close to us, right? Yeah, no, there's some lines. And now there's talk about Yogi's, right out,   Michael Sinnott  16:43 and then I heard you like, talk, educate me on the dangers and   Chris Harris  16:48 Exactly. business. I mean, any mention of business, we know who I'm talking about, right? I talk about engineers, school teachers, right? So it's just like little things you can sprinkle in like that, that really give it that personal touch.   Michael Sinnott  17:05 I mean, it's it's if even if you're not my wife, I I think this is why she's still entertained by me is like she listens to music, but she doesn't listen to the lyrics. I can tell her the same story like really? Oh, yeah, yeah. I still got stories she's never heard before. And the truth is, I've told her the story like four or five times, she's just in it for the emotion, not the details. So what I'm getting at is whether you're neurotic. She doesn't listen to this episode. No, I she would hear that and be like, Yeah, no, he's right. He's right. Like, right. If you know, literally, she'll be like, if I'm focusing on the words, I don't, I don't enjoy the music as much. And I'm just like, okay, cool, like for each their own. And what I'm getting at is, whether you're neurotic, obsessive compulsive, like I kind of dabble in, and you are honing in on the words and how they come together, or just someone who like is enjoying the sound like, dude, there's that, that would be impossible to not appreciate on the first, listen, scrilla like, I just I, I can't say enough man. And I can't wait to listen to it over and over again. And like, I have to touch on something here because Ryan mentioned the new artwork. And if you don't mind, I'd love to share that process. Talk about that a little bit.   Ryan McDevitt  18:25 Yeah, and not do this episode is about the new OS, right?   Michael Sinnott  18:28 Yeah, this is. Um, so what you just got what you just got is like, you know, I don't know when when someone close to you, who knows you very well share something about you like that's, there's some intimacy there, right. And also some pressure. So like, I do want to say, Chris, how brave you are, for curating something about us and then sharing it in that manner. Like, a, I don't know if anyone out there knows it. But Ryan and I are not the easiest judges. And we're not that like, we're not super shy with our opinions about things. So Chris, I love you, man. And thank you so much for doing that and sharing that with us in that way you doubt? Hmm, I give that preamble because we've also in the artwork realm. And to be clear, I'm very, very happy with what's been created. But there's a huge difference in creating something with someone who does not know you at all. All right, and like clearly, we're not trying to put anything out on the show that looks like you know, we got it at the corner store. Um, so it takes a while to develop a relationship where you're trying to like, introduce some nuances, especially when it comes to illustrating three human beings. So, I'm gonna shout out there's a there's an app called fire. It's f IV, e rr, I think is how you find it. I think the the premise of this app, it's that Craigslist, it's a little bit more specific to like artists and kind of creative types. And they may do other stuff on there. But to be honest, you go on there, and you say, Hey, this is what I need done, you know, like, I want a portrait of my wife painted. And someone will, someone will be like, I'll do it for 15 bucks. So it's a really cool, like, open marketplace. Um, but as you can imagine that that opens things up, across the whole world, across, you know, every demographic. And from my experience, there tends to be a lot of people in other places that are willing to do like, really incredible artwork for very, very cheap. So I'm interested, you know, yeah, I'll do that I'll sign up for that. Well, what you don't appreciate is that in entering that, there's no clarity on exactly what your native, you know, your native language is going to be, um, exactly like, how, how high your expectations are going to be. So you have to kind of work through all that. And you know, you're working through all that digitally, you know, usually by text, that's actually this fiber app. It's incredibly, I'm just gonna say controlling, and that it creates its own, like social space, where you text and you message within the app. And if you text, if you if you text, something along the lines of, hey, email me, it will immediately flag you and say you're not allowed to communicate via email or any any way outside of Fiverr. So it's very like, which to me is I like that. To me. That's a it's a layer of safety. Um, but it's been about three weeks since I started this and mind you, I'm on my third fiber artists, because the first two I'm just gonna say it didn't work out. Let's just say it's probably me not. It's probably me, Matt, them. But the third artist,   Ryan McDevitt  22:09 it's an international service to write my question.   Michael Sinnott  22:11 Yeah, I mean, that I thought I kind of like, which kind of mentioned, but I didn't want to say like, yeah, yeah,   Ryan McDevitt  22:18 we're I'm getting it. India is fair to talk about that. There seems to be   Michael Sinnott  22:24 a market artists in India. Okay. I don't really know about the Philippines, but there's definitely a concentration in a very different time zone. Let's say that. I want both those markets. Yeah, I mean, and you do you do this much more regularly than I do. And this is a perfect like snapshot of the show. Let's have the guy who never deals with this stuff. Who knows nothing about artwork. Let's have Mike handle the artwork for the for the show. So you volunteered, bro? I did volunteer because that's doing a great job. I'm scared and I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah, I'll go first. I'll do this first. Um, and I'm not trying to sound brave. I'm trying to sound like, reckless. Um, let's just say that about 15. At least 15 iterations later. Um, yeah, we've got a little King of the Hill cover that I'm, I mean, I don't know if I can. Well, I don't need to share it with you guys. Here. I got the final revision last night. I'm excited about it. I think it turned out well, so not only am I gonna like give my huge audible clapping to my buddy over in India, who just goes by graphes Studio. So crappy, we're gonna get you some love. Don't worry, buddy, who's just been a sweetheart to deal with. Anyone who sticks with Mike for this long is just a sweetheart. It's amazing. You too included, my wife gets the top metal but this guy did a lot for not a ton of money. And I just can't say enough about the like, I've been kind of like, you know, bitchy about it. But when all of a sudden done the amount of effort and work and like revisions, as gentlemen put into this work for the you know, the money. I'd like to I'd like to give them a bonus to be honest. Because it really is just it like the idea of that open space, like the open market where you can just get someone to do something for you. That's a very different conversation. Um, but it was a learning process for me. You know, I'm used to going into these things with a little bit more like, Where's your website? Where's yours? Send me your CV, like, what college Did you like? I'm just, I'm used to people kind of put me through that grinder. And unfortunately, sometimes I project that on to others. So it's good for me to like step away from that. To deal with some other like, people that have very different backgrounds than me, like not just culturally, but professionally as well. So yeah, that was you guys will see. And I think you'll get get a kick out of it we I mean, there were some iterations throughout that like, I'm not, maybe I'll share it, we'll share those at some point. But I don't want to like I don't want to. I don't want to disrespect the artist. What what I'm pointing out here is that there's just nuances. Right? And like those nuances are, Chris, you're laughing harder? Because I don't know, do you want to? Do you want to use a different word to describe some of the like, just use some stuff where you didn't think you'd have to like clarify it.   Chris Harris  25:45 You know, two of us are white, one of us is black and earlier versions and look like two of us were black skin.   Ryan McDevitt  25:55 Would you nickname the version of me?   26:02 We got here this one   Ryan McDevitt  26:03 culturally culturally agnostic, the Joe Ryan could be any   Chris Harris  26:09 word that was my joke. That was   Michael Sinnott  26:11 that was gonna say Chris said it first. Chris said at first I said it, and I laughed. I laughed my ass off. I'm sorry. But it was one of these situations where you're just like, hmm, I'm not really clear on why you went in that direction. Yeah, I actually and this is, this is the type of stuff where my weird head works where like, if I knew this artist, I'd be like so. So why did you make Ryan black? You know, straight up like, was it the picture we said or was it like, was this a little flair you were putting into it? But like, No, I just I was a little bit more direct. And I the first time I was actually subtle. I was like, I think do me a favor, go and double check those pictures I sent you. The skin tones need to be corrected a little bit i think is how I set it. But then when that didn't do it because I got another one back and it was like, wait a minute. No, you're correcting in the wrong direction. Like no wait. I had to I had to write him back and say like, Sorry, brother. But one of these. One of us is one of us is black and two of us are white in the tones of the figures right now. They're not they're inconsistent with that. When I pointed that out, when I pointed that out, it came back corrected really, really quick. But it was just one of those things that I honestly in my head I'm like I love this artists man. He don't see he don't see any color like that. They're like that he didn't even notice it. It's beautiful.   Ryan McDevitt  27:51 I think you did a phenomenal job. You did a phenomenal job even if you didn't get my melanin right the first time to   Michael Sinnott  27:58 know sure I am great. Ryan will forever be in our hearts. Um, you know and I have the visual to forever be on my phone to   Ryan McDevitt  28:09 like me after far too many weeks on vacation and somewhere   Chris Harris  28:16 so look, I mean, we got the new artwork, we got the new song. I'm thinking to close the song to close the show out we play the song One more time. What do y'all think? I like it. I like it. I think this is a nice short sweet episode. That That sounds phenomenal.   Ryan McDevitt  28:30 Yes Do it. Alright, so know where to find us as Chris gets that queued up it's at convention not underscore podcast. I guess technically this is season four we got rid of the seasons we're starting to number the episodes now so you could kind of see there are many many hours that you could listen to. But let's check the song just one more time we'll close it out with that one more time. Love it   [Intro]  McD is all business  I know Mike got my back  $crilla on the track  [Chorus]  ConventioNOT  What that means is unconventional  Been in the game a few  So comprehend what imma give to you  Cause in an instant you  Can turn your hustle to an institute  I can't stop  I'm on top  Because I'm ConventioNOT  What that means is unconventional  Been in the game a few  So comprehend what imma give to you  Cause in an instant you  Can turn your hustle to an institute  I can't stop  I'm on top  Because I'm ConventioNOT  [Verse]  Immaculate how I be rapping it  When I be spitting, you know that you loving it Covet it, nothing above it  So you can go run with it  Now let's get back to it  Back to the basics  Carving out spaces  Practice patience for situations and all vibrations I want all my eyes can see and imma beat you there I aim for variety like a sneaker head  I'm game ready  Keeping that thang steady  Climbing over the dragon  Now who wanna bang with me?  Will you grow and change with me?  Go through the same with?  For those that don't grow  They known to remain shifty I'm working with all I've got  So when you see me, you know what I'm bout  [Chorus]  ConventioNOT  What that means is unconventional  Been in the game a few  So comprehend what imma give to you  Cause in an instant you  Can turn your hustle to an institute  I can't stop  I'm on top  Because I'm ConventioNOT  What that means is unconventional  Been in the game a few  So comprehend what imma give to you  Cause in an instant you  Can turn your hustle to an institute  I can't stop  I'm on top  Because I'm ConventioNOT  [Verse]  I do this for the people, people like school teachers Who think out the closet for causes that do reach us And spark the young engineers  Who interfere with what society's instilled in here You keep me grounded dog  And hold me down like my yogis hitting that's downward dog Then it's back to business when I'm with my counterparts No sitting down, so we walking around  Real talk, they talk about us, we the talk of the town It's our chance, we contrast, but I ask  That you pay attention while you listen to this podcast I'm working with all I've got  So when you see me you know what I'm bout  [Chorus]  ConventioNOT  What that means is unconventional  Been in the game a few  So comprehend what imma give to you  Cause in an instant you Can turn your hustle to an institute I can't stop  I'm on top  Because I'm ConventioNOT  What that means is unconventional Been in the game a few  So comprehend what imma give to you Cause in an instant you  Can turn your hustle to an institute I can't stop  I'm on top  Because I'm ConventioNOT  [Outro]  Yeah  Shoutout to Wailer  Carter  Anna  Junior  McD  Mike  $crilla  Mayhem Music

Everybody's back after a short break at the end of the month. Chris, Mike & McD mix it up and talk about moving - an experience that affects nearly every household. The other thing is that everybody approaches moving day a bit different. Ryan gets personal about his recent experience in moving from Atlanta to Metro-Detroit and the team laments on moves past and the first thing that's most important when finding a new locale.  There are big things coming for the show for fall 2020 and the guys are eager to share what's coming up. You'll for sure miss out if you aren't subscribed on your own podcast channel. Click that button to subscribe or find us on your app by clicking on http://conventionot.com  

Jenna Righi is a really dynamic person. Sure, she has a cool career, awesome social media presence and even an additional hustle that makes shiny things. The thing that really shines about Jenna though, is that all of this stuff is based on her desire to help elevate the people around her.  Her day job, she helps startup companies find money. Certainly that's no easy task - but her other hustle is even cooler because Link Before You Sink helps people connect with each other. It's not just beautiful jewelry that the company ships, it's the chance to connect with a real life story of somebody else.  In a world where social media likes are more important to people than handshakes, Jenna's business is seeking out private stories to share with other people. Guess what? It's created an incredible thing. You'll have to tune in to the episode to hear more - including some secrets about how she stays active and what her main personal focusses are.  Episode Transcription Chris Harris  00:06 What's up everybody? Thanks so much for tuning in. On today's episode of conventioNOT, we have a guest that wears many hats. Her name is Jenna Righi. She's a senior analyst at a startup company. She's a full time mental health advocate, and a full time jewelry creator and founder of link before you sink. Jen is what I call a vibrant personality. Her energy is contagious. And I mean that in a positive way. After five minutes with her, I feel like I could run a marathon. But that energy is fueled by her experiences, which include experiences of loss, pain, and finding hope. And that's where link before you sink comes into play. They may appear like a jewelry company on the surface, but it's much bigger than that. It's a support community, in a safe space for people like you and me to share our story. Enjoy the show.   Ryan McDevitt  01:07 We are recording now. Everybody can hear us. Look at that. That day. On conventioNOT. We have DJ scrilla and Jenna I don't even know if I could pronounce your last name is it rig he or rig he   Jenna Righi  01:25 close better than better than most it's Righi. So like our it's pronounced Rig-hi, but it's R-I-G-H-I, but it should be it looks like it would be our I-G-G-I.   Ryan McDevitt  01:37 It sounds like a good like Midwestern last name is like what I imagined when I see that you know when I see polish, or I don't know that you are Eastern European. But when I see those last names, I always think of Home sweet home. But Welcome to conventioNOT that Chris was excited to introduce you to us. And I feel like we when we first talked which we usually do before we get on the show. I get all excited and then I learned all about you. But it's never fair for me to explain who you are. Could you introduce yourself to our audience?   Jenna Righi  02:09 Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. And thanks, Chris, for the intro. So my name is Jenna. And I started link before you sink in. It was November 8 2018. So coming up higher on two years now. So it's basically a jewelry business that links or connects individuals going through similar struggles. So when you purchase a jewelry link, you receive an anonymous story of somebody going through a similar struggle and the whole purpose of it is you know, when you're in dark times to know that you're not alone.   Ryan McDevitt  02:40 Wow, that's quite a deep. What seems like side hustle or started as at least a side hustle for you.   Jenna Righi  02:47 It is for sure.   Ryan McDevitt  02:49 Yeah. Is this your first time into the e commerce slash jewelry slash? Like nonprofit?   Jenna Righi  02:58 Yeah, it is. So it's not a nonprofit. It's a for profit, but we donate back $5 for each link sold to one of our partnership nonprofits. So yeah, it's my first time in e commerce and the I started pretty much knowing nothing about jewelries which means I knew I knew nothing about metal and how metal can fade. I knew nothing about how to set up and like an e commerce store. So I pretty much taught myself and I mean still teaching myself every day.   Chris Harris  03:26 Well, you know what, I guess you don't know. But I don't wear jewelry on a regular basis, like ever.   Ryan McDevitt  03:32 But you don't if   Jenna Righi  03:33 Nope, I didn't know that either. I'll take that moment.   Chris Harris  03:37 Listen, I got your channel right now are rocking pretty much every day. Um, and it just means a lot to me knowing your story, and I kind of want to get into that. So maybe you can let our viewers know a little bit about how you got started. And really what is the meaning behind link before you think   Jenna Righi  03:58 Sure. So comes obviously from a personal experience of mine so it was 2000 may 2014. I was living in South Florida at the time I had a great job was engaged and then my I lost my father he was dying of lung cancer and he passed away in May so I honestly I think I feel like she had just kind of hit the fan after he passed away my engagement pretty much crumbled thereafter. And so I moved back I mean I was I had nothing in Florida really I didn't have any my support system was in Ohio and my family's from pa but I mean I had nothing really down sell for me to stay there and no reason to stay there. But I'd have a job I've always been self sufficient. I've always paid my own bills but I mean it comes to a point where you got to kind of put your mental health first. So I it was the craziest thing I've ever done I packed up my car with just whatever fit in it shift the rest later and I just I moved in I had nowhere to stay obviously because I had no house so I moved in with my friend and her husband, they took me in and I just pretty much respect In my life from there so the reason I obviously started, I know what it's like to be at rock bottom, I know what it's like to feel like, you know, you're not alone and like you're not going anywhere. So I mean, it developed over time, but I knew I, you know, when I hit that point that if I ever got back on my feet, which I obviously have that I would make it a mission to kind of help people to know that they're not alone. I had no idea at the time it would be through jewelry, but it kind of just paved the path from there. So it definitely, you know, it was a personal experience of the why of, you know, why it came about? Oh,   Chris Harris  05:35 this, that is, um, I think that's so impactful. You know, we talk about mental health now. And the The thing I like, about mental health, in that conversation is more people seem to be open to the conversation, more people seem to be vulnerable. And I feel like 10 years ago, we weren't talking about mental mental health   Jenna Righi  05:59 hundred percent.   Chris Harris  06:01 How have you seen, I guess, your perception with mental health change since you started this company?   Jenna Righi  06:08 I mean, so much, and that, I mean, it's not even been two years now. And it's funny to watch funny is not the right word, but I have like a macho boss, and like, I know, macho people. And it's crazy to me, as soon as you let your guard down a little bit, or say like, uh, you know, as soon as I opened up about my story, I feel like the floodgates just came in of, you know, Oh, my gosh, I never told you this, I saw a therapist or I had an eating disorder, I had this. And I think that's how it kind of came about. It's like, wow, the power of vulnerability really is so powerful. It's just not talked about it was kind of like shamed on back in the day, it was a sign of weakness, maybe. And now it's something that everybody's talking about. So I mean, the past two years alone, I mean, so many people have I get DMS and even if they're not willing to come out publicly, now, it me, I save every thing that somebody sends me and put it in a folder. So when I'm having a bad day, or COVID hits and sales are down, I reread everything. And remember, that's why I started it. But yeah, it's definitely really powerful how mental health has totally changed perception in the past couple years. And that's actually why I partnership with Nationwide Children's, they have a whole behavioral health facility that Big Lots helped fund it, I got a tour of it, and it's just that would not have existed, you know, five years ago, let alone 10. So it's just, it's really cool. How mental health is transforming that it's something that is the normal now and it's talked about, and it's okay to talk about your issues or your struggles that you're having, where before it was just kind of tucked under the rug. And as we know, and things are tucked under the rug there, you know, it gets buried, and it obviously makes it worse. Wow.   Ryan McDevitt  07:49 Well, I think I think there's a lot of things that are unique about what you're doing, right. So like, the first thing is is like just to start a website, and to get people to like, go there and buy whatever those wares are, is I'm sure complex in its own right. But it seems to me that like one of the ways that it's kind of shocking to you, at least now two years later, that the community was created around it. And so it's cool to be able to hear you loft into the side of you know, being able to you know, escalate your engagement with those communities, especially what you explained with like your day job versus this this kind of environment. But were there some challenges, I mean, whether it be in the production and design, your design is really simple, which I think could be something that you talk about, especially with the way that you utilize the chains. And you know, some of the other patents I think are really unique, especially as I could imagine that community building you just talked about, but like, you just end up with a website 24 months later, like oh my god now I'm smiling here, committed to the game, right? Like how did it happen? I mean, how did it come about? Well, two   Jenna Righi  09:00 parts I'll definitely talk about my failures because there was a lot of struggles and you know, hiccups along the way but the so I remember my friends when I first moved back I'd be that nerd in the pool. I felt like I was not always wired like a traditional female I guess you could say like it was like oh just go to your to your day job and leave and maybe marry a rich dude and have kids and that's what life is and I felt like I was always wired a little bit differently like there's like more passionate like there's got to be something more and I was always that person that was like we will be at the pool like highlighting like the self help books or like you know the passionate books about career and things that you can do to help people so I mean in that was even you know, years before I hit that struggle I was always wired to kind of want to help people this just kind of you know, obviously forced me to do that but so the why was always there and I remember like rock bottom, you know, where you can't get up and you're driving back like with no radio on no music on thinking where the What am I going to explain to people I mean, I remember saying like, if they're Ever a way that I could figure a way out I don't be shy Don't be I've always been bullheaded, I was always one of those people that never opened up never shared any kind of struggle that I had, I promised myself that I would give that back if I ever found my way. So the passion was there. And then the the story is just, it's very bizarre. And everyone's like, I don't get it, you just stumbled across a random bike chain, I did. So I was riding my bike, the chain fell off, piste off, you know, fallen over, I look at it, and it was just kind of like hit me. Like it was broken. And it like that It hit me like, okay, everything broken, I'm right in thinking, again, everything broken, has the chance to be beautiful. And then I just started like, I've always been a creative too. So I started taking apart the chain, you know, thinking that this can't be made into jewelry, because it'll look too gaudy. You know, like big, chunky chains. And then I realized you take it apart, there's little charms that you can make out of it where it's not. So it's more dainty, like the flat ones dainty. So when you break apart a chain, it's like a flat, a double A flat, a double. And then it kind of escalated from there. But I guess the why was always there. It's just the I never thought I remembered would think and because I had a notebook like, you know, I had a million ideas before. Like, what if I did a workout class and we talked about our vulnerabilities or what if I did this, and it nothing ever fit until for some reason, that chain fell off the bike. And it was just one of those aha moments. Like, I think I can make something out of this broken piece here. And then the, you know, the why kind of all fell into place from there. So that's kind of how it started.   Ryan McDevitt  11:31 Wow.   Chris Harris  11:33 I mean, that is so cool. I think that's what's amazing with how we sort of just find our way with what we're kind of supposed to do. And I talked to Ryan and Mike a lot about this with music, you know, I make these songs for TV and film. But that's not really what I had planned on doing. When I got into music. I just sort of found my way. And it sounds like that's kind of what happened with you as well.   Jenna Righi  11:59 Isn't it nuts? I never. And then you have down days. And I'm thinking what am I doing making jewelry, I didn't go to school to design jewelry, I have no business, I don't know about metals, and you just you, you teach yourself you learn things, and you just it kind of just paves your way, I would have never thought I would have ended up here, you know, five years ago, for sure. But you just kind of find your way.   Ryan McDevitt  12:19 I was a little bit surprised, actually, when I checked out your LinkedIn because I don't remember what the order was when we communicated before but I know that Kent State has such a strong fashion design program. And like, I guess I just kind of assumed that like that was most of your your path. Right. Especially with you know, Chris knows all the homies I'm sure from all the different schools. Yes, you know, but, but ultimately, right? I mean, it's really a famed program there. And so it's kind of cool to see somebody, I always think it's cool to see somebody be able to indulge their creative habits, like as a side hustle. Because a creative career is tough in a lot of ways. And you know, I think with a lot of the avenues that we're able to explore those creative things, whether it be for profit or for not, or whether it's something that's really cool, like what I think you do, which is partnering with charity, I think that kind of helps close the gap for for what creative desire really leads to, but like, I think it's it's a lot more beneficial in sometimes a little bit less risky. I mean, both you guys do this, right? Like you you have your regular professional career, and then you're able to indulge in those creative components that way outside of it. Now, both of you, I know, you treat it as a side hustle, right? But are there other things in your life that you're involved with Jenna, that that aren't like, you know, side hustle oriented with link before you sink? I mean, do you get to go and you know, experience things? Do you get to talk in front of any of the charities that you've donated to or anything like that to really affect the people who are suffering from these things on that other dynamic?   Jenna Righi  14:05 Yeah, well, it's been kind of tough, obviously with COVID. But with nationwide children, there's brunches and again, when she when you talk to these people, and they say hey, you know, I got a story of this of Steve and he went through what I mean that's everything. That's what we're about and that I could really connected with that story. And I have it on my fridge. It's like that, that that means everything to me. But we do a lot of events again, not necessarily recently with with COVID and what's going on but Cleveland Clinic does a lot of events too. They do bike Vela Sona, which is right up my alley, because it's a bike race for cancer. So we usually set out a booth there. Everybody comes over and then you get to talk to these people one on one that you know are affected by cancer. Their family was affected by cancer. They buy stuff they you know, they read my stories that that's everything to me when you get to meet these people. You know, one on one, we've done another Cleveland Clinic event. It was a was another cancer related event that was an indoor event around October. I'm still waiting to see if we have that one or not. I hope we do. But yeah, we it's communicating with these people one on one and meeting them. I mean, that's, that's everything. But we do a ton of different types of events. And I'm always open to, obviously more events. But it's not just a submission of the story on the website. No, no, no, no, it's not about a person. The other thing that I like to make very clear with like, the stories and the categories, it's like, it's it was a very fine line, because I hate to categorize anybody who likes to be categorized. So I always like to, I want somebody to connect with something similar. And actually, Chris, I just saw that you you bought a link. And it's discrimination. It's like that can mean so many different things with story that I actually sent you and all senate It was about a Muslim that had been obviously discriminated on. I mean, no two stories are ever going to be exactly the same. And I always make it clear that the category isn't there to define you. It's just necessarily meant there to link we're always adding on but I always make it clear that we don't really pigeonhole it's like, you know, loss of a loved one could mean a couple different things. But the whole purpose of it is to connect Yes, with people going through similar struggles. But to realize that you all you have that, you know, connection, even though your story might be a little bit different.   Chris Harris  16:17 I love that concept about your product, when you not only get this awesome link, but you get this story that comes with it. And I just want to know, from your perspective, what is it like when you're getting all these stories sent to you? Is it ever too much? I mean, do you ever feel like you know, you're absorbing a lot of that, that energy? Tell me about that process?   Jenna Righi  16:40 Yeah, I am. And it is, it's a lot and I have days, you know, where I like constantly reading and totally affected actually before right before this call. A friend from high school just connected me with her friend from college. Hey, I want to connect you with my friend Michelle. She just I saw that you posted a childhood cancer story yesterday was a two and a half diet currently diagnosed with cancer. And she said my friend Michelle just lost her four year old who was just diagnosed with cancer, and I was just chatting with her before I'm gonna send her a link obviously, for free. But yeah, that takes a lot on your day. But at the end of the day, I mean, yeah, it's it is impactful to know that you're kind of helping people. But yeah, it does take a toll on you. That's for sure. hearing all these stories, seeing all these struggles, it's, it's not and that's over, you know, obviously for protection and privacy purposes. That is why we only share by like, Jenna, Ohio, or just first name and state to keep it somewhat private there, obviously.   Mike Sinnott  17:45 Hey, what's up everybody? It's Mike from the show. No, I'm not here to pester you or ask you to do anything for us. I honestly just want to reach out and say, Hi, I hope everybody's doing all right. I know I'm personally hanging in there. There's some ups and downs, right? We're all doing this. We're all in this. All of us. Never been able to really sincerely, honestly say that before. But every human on this planet is going through it right now. And if you're not too far down, then lift someone else up. We all need it. Today may be your good day, but it's someone else's bad day. Spread the love people, it may be all we have.   Chris Harris  18:37 I really appreciate you being so open and vulnerable. Something you mentioned earlier, when you were talking you talked about having down days, right? I mean, and I think that is something that you know, a lot of times we don't think about that you know people have a look at your website is so you know clean is so awesome. But you know, yeah, you're human. You have down days too. I want to know like, what a down day might look like for you. And what do you do to get out of a down day? Like what do you do for self care?   Jenna Righi  19:07 Yep. So Jen, and everybody's different some people it's yoga some people it's a pet sight I mean I don't know but for me, it's the gym and people are always like I don't understand why you go to the gym take a day off and I do here and there but it that is my like anxiety medicine is just letting it all out loud. hip hop music on the treadmill and going to the gym. That's how I start my day. Taking a break, you know i am i'm i'm one that gets like when I'm on my computer on the phone. I'm just kind of go go go go go when I'm having that round way. I shut my laptop, take a walk   Ryan McDevitt  19:42 What are you doing during COVID? Weren't you?   Jenna Righi  19:48 Yeah, so I've been going to orange theory. So that's what I've been doing. I mean, well, I live downtown Columbus too. So I get on the Oakland tangi trail and I go around the stadium that's what I did when nothing was open. I would just kind of luck You know, it wasn't snowing during COVID. But I would I would work out outside and go running around this the Ohio State stadium a lot. But now what a theory.   Ryan McDevitt  20:11 I guess I didn't realize that gyms so gyms in Georgia never closed.   Jenna Righi  20:14 They didn't I didn't know that.   Ryan McDevitt  20:16 Wow. I mean, it was up to the individual owner and there are some things. That means so Anna had a little bit greater restriction and then the governor of Georgia sued the city of Atlanta to open the businesses. Wow, interesting. It's just a different it's a different thing, which is a whole different discussion. Not not what this show is about. Let's not well, yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So you didn't mention cycling. I mean, so like was that the last day you cycled? You just broke that chain down and threw your bike out?   Jenna Righi  20:49 So I ran, you're running. It's funny that you say that actually, because I get like, Oh, you must be an avid biker. Like I actually prefer running over cycling. Cycling is something I do with my boyfriend and his daughter. Like we do that all together. But when it's just me, I usually go running. So I definitely do both. But I for cycling, we kind of do that. And that's more like casual because we have a 60 year old behind us. But what I'm like in my mood to like burn off steam. I'm sprinting. Okay.   Ryan McDevitt  21:17 scrilla do you ride a bike? never asked that. You got a bike?   Chris Harris  21:19 Man. I don't have a bike. I haven't been on a bike and at least 20 years. Seriously. It's been a long 20 years. 20 years. roller skates even longer. That's a whole other story. Yeah, bro.   Ryan McDevitt  21:36 How do you live in such a flat city and like avoid a bike for so long? Are you like   Chris Harris  21:41 being lame? That's a just   Ryan McDevitt  21:42 a lot. Okay. Not even like the ones where you put your credit card in and it's like, oh, you're out with all your friends and shit. If you ever tried the bird, the what   Chris Harris  21:50 was the bird? scooter? Oh, the loose? All those things I had just laying around downtown those things. Yeah, you know, never been on one of those. So see dangerous? Yeah, yeah. Maybe I'll try one bike before I try the bird for sure. So, you know, I'm curious. You mentioned the, you know, you listen to some hip hop music. what's what's on your playlist? Like when you get it? Yeah. Cuz,   Jenna Righi  22:15 like, like, hip hop. I mean, I just usually put like a station on but anything that's pretty ratchet as I was   Chris Harris  22:23 just gonna say it's got to be ratchet.   Jenna Righi  22:25 Yeah, it's so ratchet. That's everything that's ratchets up my alley. So yeah, that's, I mean, I don't like have like, I have a playlist I usually just honestly go to like, anything that's at the top of my Spotify, because obviously it knows you. So I just click that. And it's I'm usually good to go. Is it like current ratchet?   Ryan McDevitt  22:41 Like, like, trap music?   Jenna Righi  22:53 Loud and ratchet? Yeah.   Chris Harris  22:56 That's why she's running full sprints. Yeah. wretched music. Man.   Ryan McDevitt  23:04 All right. So you know, most people come out and they talk about what they're doing. Let's talk about your day job or like your career most moreso. Like, we, we don't talk very much about like, you know what you're doing right now. We certainly like to give our guests an opportunity to promote it. But certainly you don't get to a spot where you're able to launch like such a successful connective business without doing the full time hustle on the front. So how does that work for you? Or how have you treated your career? Since you guys were breaking it down with the house parties? Back in, I guess, the early 2000s that was Yeah, sure.   Chris Harris  23:39 Yeah.   Jenna Righi  23:41 Yeah. So basically, what I do is I help startup companies and everyone's like, Oh, you that's how you started link before you think and it's like, actually, that's not really how it happened. I think it honestly gave me kind of the the encouragement and the motivation, because we sit there every idea under the sun. So So basically, what I do is companies that want to start a business they come to us and you know, we help them with like business planning or launching or helping them find investors, should they have you know, the traction or should it make sense? So, yeah, I mean, it kind of that's kinda I guess, I do have somewhat of a background obviously, in startups, not ecommerce or anything. But I think to be honest with you, it gave me a little bit more motivation like hey, of these people that just spun up this idea yesterday, can can do this then. So could I you know what, I mean, I'll figure it out. I don't know anything about metals. I don't know anything about, you know, e commerce. I've never set up. I'm not a techie, you know, so no, it just kind of gave me that motivation. Like if they can do it then so can I everything is figure out.   Ryan McDevitt  24:37 Is it an incubator, like, are you localized in the Columbus area primarily or do you?   Jenna Righi  24:45 Yeah, so it's called startups.com. It's kind of like a one stop shop. So our funding platform, it's a reg D site, so it's accredited investors. So it's a reg D crowdfunding site, but it's not considered like an accelerator incubator. It's a reg D crowd. funding. So basically what we do is we, you know, pretty up the deal we do the marketing, we do like help clients find the investor, but we're not a broker dealer. So we can't make that intro we do everything we can i quarterly explain it as the client tells us who they want to go on a date with. They, we book them that ideal candidate, their profile, we give them the makeover, we booked the reservation, but they are the one going on the date, so to speak. So, you know, we talked to some really cool companies too, because people use us, obviously, that need a little bit more of the education, but also that just are looking to kind of take time off of their plate as well. So we talk with companies that have done four and five rounds of funding, and then all their companies that, you know, this is their initial round of funding. So it's kind of all across the board. It's interesting. It's different   Ryan McDevitt  25:41 in a good sense. I think that, you know, it seems like the funding game, especially though, the way that it's complicated from accepting the role, versus what you sign over for, you know, accepting the the event, the cash event, I think that that's really something that sounds like it's, it's got to be needed. So it's when you say crowdfunding, is it selective by user? Or do you buy into like a community of sort? Like, can I go in and investigate which projects that you guys have approved to fund?   Jenna Righi  26:14 It's rigged? So if you are reggae Plus, you could technically because it's not accredited investors, anybody can be investor, ours are as the same guidelines as the SEC. So you do have to be an accredited investor to view any of the deals on fundable. Okay.   Ryan McDevitt  26:28 Yeah. Okay. That makes good sense. Yep.   Chris Harris  26:32 What kind of, I guess skills and tools have you learned from your nine to five that you transfer over to link before you sink? And that's one question. And the other thing is, do you consider, you know, Link before you sink a side hustle? Or do you consider it like another full time job? I'm curious.   Jenna Righi  26:49 That's actually a great question. So yeah, I've learned a lot actually. And again, it's not necessarily like the business dynamics, it's, it's kind of like failure, like, I see these crazy companies that are crazy entrepreneurs, that I am going to raise $20 million. Like, they're not, if you're thinking about something, in my opinion, that you're just driven by money, it almost will always fail, because you're just chasing the dollar sign at the end of the day. So I mean, I sit talking to these, like, sometimes crazy people, and sometimes really cool people. That is definitely one thing, it's taught me that it takes time you have your heart's gotta be in something because you will run into hiccups down the road. And, you know, that's what's gonna keep you going forward. But if you're just money, I see that and, you know, the friends that I have that are consistent job hoppers. I mean, you know what I mean, if you're always just chasing the dollar sign you, you're gonna end up spinning your wheels always. So I mean, I learned stuff like that, from talking to entrepreneurs. And, you know, in other organizations, or I guess other companies that are a little bit more established. I mean, sure, I learned things from from them as well, like, just, you know, marketing tricks, just simple things that they're doing. I pick up on little things like that. But to be honest with you, I think I have learned more from the people that are a little bit crazier. It's like, okay, I would not do that. So, you know, I understand why they're not working or why they're spinning their wheels, you know, I guess I think I've honestly learned more from from those type of people. And then link, I do consider it my full time. I mean, I I've always said from the get go, and I feel like I'm gonna have my eggs in multiple baskets, because I like to do multiple things. So I mean, I look at them both as honestly two full time jobs. Like I have a list for stuff I need to do for link for the day. And I have a list that I need to do for startups. com at the end of the day, and I don't go to bed until they're both done. It's not like I'm working nine to six and then oh, like, order comes in, then I'll fill it. It's, you know, I always look at both of them, I would say as full time jobs.   Chris Harris  28:53 Yeah, I like that. And it sounds like it. I mean, it sounds like you're involved in so many different things. It sounds like another full time job. One of the one of the things me and Ryan talk about a lot and I think we're the same is like we're Workaholics. So are you? Are you a workaholic? Oh, yeah,   Jenna Righi  29:09 yeah, that's what I always say when back in the day when I was reading those books and so can you just chill or Can't you just nine to five close down and I just felt like I just never shut down and it wasn't like again, it wasn't like I was chasing more money. I was just chasing more passionate things or like, I want to do this and then I want to do this. But I also like this. I felt like I was always kind of a renaissance soul and I liked a million different things. So yeah, sometimes it's too much sometimes I need to put the brakes on a little bit but I'm definitely a workaholic. I like going full speed. Just like my runs.   Ryan McDevitt  29:42 Be like i don't i don't really consider you know, a Holic perv. Like kind of implies it's a negative thing, right? So like, I'm sure that I know there are a lot of things that I've given up in my life because I work a certain way. But one of the things I think, that I learned like early on is that I don't classify the things that I do, excuse me, in the subjects of like a job or not a job. It's like, this is what I really identify with what you said, Jenna, that, like, this is what I'm going to do today. And a lot of those tasks, and some of those are projects. And so like, that's a crazy kind of thing that I've gone through over the years of like, you know, do I have a notebook? Do I have a moleskin? Do I have an iPhone? Do I have you know, any of the media that you could possibly imagine? Yeah, pom pom pilot to even date myself. But like, at the end of the day, I think that, you know, the workaholic thing I always just kind of like have a little bit of a tough time with because usually when somebody's saying that to me, I know you don't mean this, Chris. But usually when they're saying that, to me, they're saying that because they're like, implying something. Yeah, they're implying that I'm losing something, because my things that I choose to do have more to do with, like, things that produce money. I'm not like a wealthy person. Like I assume I'll retire probably in somewhere in the middle class, right? You know, but like, at the end of the day, I never the same way that I get up and I train every morning or meditate every morning. I want to accomplish those tasks in like, I've left a lot of jobs before my whole career has been startup. And so like I've left organizations before, because I just don't enjoy doing it anymore. Right. All right. even lose cash to a certain extent. Yeah. You know, quite specifically in a couple different decisions.   Jenna Righi  31:31 Yeah. And it's I mean, if you're not challenged by so that's me anyways, like, yeah, your passion has to be there. But if you're not challenged, you know, continually for me, it's just like, I just can't stay in something like that. I'm so   Ryan McDevitt  31:42 empty. Yeah, I don't have the effort to to give, which I think is unique when somebody experiences me in both things, right. Like, how could I seriously not give a fuck? Yeah, like, after caring so much for so long. It's just like a weird chemistry thing for me. But it has it has to do with work shows not about me.   Jenna Righi  32:03 I totally buy with that. Same way for sure.   Chris Harris  32:08 So, okay, I was gonna say what motivates you, or like, what gets you excited? When it comes to work?   Jenna Righi  32:17 Honestly, it's always been like helping people. Like I always thought, like, I go into like a health care profession. Because I that's what motivates me. Like, when I'm having bummed days, or when I'm having a bad day, I'm telling you, I like on the corn ball, somebody will send me a text, like, I just got this message from my friend that got your link like, that just makes me want to keep going that those whenever I know that I help people even work friends, you know, they send me a text like that is what just keeps me going when I know that I'm helping somebody and making an impact on their life. I mean, that's just to me, I've always been wired like that. I like helping people. And that's just makes me feel fulfilled, I guess you would say, even though it's like in a different way, like, I don't wanna say, Oh, I'm helping people with my jewelry. But you know what I mean, I feel like those little tiny things that happen in your day, or one person saying one positive thing, that's what keeps me fulfilled.   Ryan McDevitt  33:08 Any point? Do you start to pinpoint where you develop that? I mean, like, if you think about, you know, just commonly, like, we develop what we want to do usually in childhood. I mean, did you observe somebody in your life? Or were you helped? I mean, the story about the the the bike thing is awesome. But right, like you were an adult, then. I mean, did it? Did it start at birth, like,   Jenna Righi  33:35 I don't know, I've always been a creative, the creative was there at birth, I think, as I got my parents were divorced. And it's, it's interesting. Now, I didn't tell anybody, I didn't tell any of my friends, my friends found out from their mothers that my parents were getting divorced, like, I was very, very closed off very, because it was like, I was strong and stubborn. Like, I was not one that would sit here on a podcast and talk about my vulnerabilities, by any way, shape or form. So the creativity was there, but I think it kind of unraveled over time. And then, you know, then I talked to a friend that her parents were going divorce when we were in college, or I already went through that and just, you know, then connecting with people like that, I think over time, that is, I think over it kind of unraveled, you know, over the years, to be honest with you that   Ryan McDevitt  34:21 to realize it from like real, like applique like I helped her through that same thing, like you know, that makes us better friends for for that what a cool thing to end up in. I mean, I know it's not it's certainly by design but what what a cool spot and a cool way to display that creativity and that help in the same time.   Jenna Righi  34:40 Yeah, I remember to like I was writing like when I was thinking of these ideas like workout hit from the heart and we'll talk about her burn the bill like I mean, I have a five notebooks of just a doodler of stuff like ideas. But I remember drawing like our circle like I've all my friends and I'm like Angie lost her dad that we've connected like that. My friend Stephanie, bad anxiety we've connected with Like that back in the day, my parents got divorced, I stopped eating for two weeks. And then it was like, oh, wow, you look really skinny. And then that I mean was, you know, I wouldn't say an eating disorder, but body image issues. And, you know, I have a friend like that. And we connected. So I had this big diagram with, like, all of my friends sticking out of it, and all the ways that we connected and it's like, wow, like, you know, that's kind of how it developed to it's like, Wow, it really is crazy, like, the connection that you see within, like people and that nobody else can ever have that or fully understand that if they haven't been through it. And actually, I was listening to your last podcast with was it Chris? The guy that had the addiction problems? Yeah. So your brother was an addict? I mean, you know what I mean, Chris, and your brother will always have that bond that no one else will fully understand. Because they went through. isn't here brother sponsor? I think I think he was.   Ryan McDevitt  35:50 It's Mike's brother. But   Jenna Righi  35:52 yeah, my brother. Yeah. So I'm listening to that, like, well, if they have that connection, or that bond that no one else will fully understand. Because they went through that similar thing. They have that in common, you know?   Ryan McDevitt  36:12 Hey, thanks for taking time to listen to Mike and I Today, I wanted to talk to you just for one second about reviewing the podcast. It really, really helps us out. And it places higher on search engines, as well as the other podcast channels that publish our show. So if you listen to conventioNOT up, you dig what you hear, take a second go out, give us five stars, give us a few kind words, or just real words, whatever the hell you want to say, out there on the review channel of your podcast show.   Chris Harris  36:45 You like i'd love it like everything you're putting down right now. And one thing I noticed, and this is not about me, but just to give us some context. Yeah, is this past year, I've been paying a lot more attention to like energy, and the energy, I absorb the energy that I give off. And I realize like I'm an empath, because there could be some times where I am so overwhelmed. By you know, even positive feedback. Sometimes you go on social media, sometimes it can just be so much and I get the sense that you might be an empath, too. So a Are you an empath, and be how do you deal with so much emotion that's being thrown your way?   Jenna Righi  37:26 Well, that's actually interesting, when you say, Are you an impact, and this I've always had, like, very, this is a negative of me very high goals, very on sometimes unrealistic goals. And I'm thinking, you know, if I can't help everyone, I'm failing. And then I read a quote, like a couple of months ago, and it was, you know, helping one person might not change the world, but it could change the world for that one person. So like, that's what I hang on to you now. So to me, that is impact. But before it was like, you know, you kind of feel like a failure when you you aren't helping everyone or you get one the negative response. And it's like, you can't hang on to that energy. You gotta, you got to keep moving. I remember my launch day, I'm super open book. We sold a ton of stuff, it was the best I was on cloud nine, the best results and somebody sent me an email the next day that said, hey, my necklace broke, can I get a new one? And I can tell you guys I couldn't even get out of bed for like, the entire weekend. And it's like, Alright, get up fix fix the you know, first round I'm on version like for now, fix the necklace, make it right and move on with your day, you just sold hundreds of units at your, your launch party, you know, why are you gonna focus on who's, you know, broken jumpring that that popped off. So it's like, I'm very, very hard on myself. But that quote of you know, helping one person maybe sometimes that's, that's what it's all about. That's what I hang on to when it comes to like impact now, it's not necessarily about everyone, you can't unfortunately, you can't ever fix everyone, you can't help everyone there's always going to be discrimination and loss and you know, problems in the world, but it's just as long as you're doing what you can and maybe it's sometimes just helping that one person that needs it. That's that's really what I hang on to now. So yeah, that's what I that's how I look at impact now, but I didn't always used to look at it like that. So I forget, I forget the second part of your question. I'm sorry.   Chris Harris  39:16 Well, yeah, it was, you know, if you how do you kind of deal with getting all these emotions from everyone? You know, I don't even know. I think your social media is like phenomenal. But how do you feel? How do you feel about when you receive all that feedback? And I mean, what role does social media play in your life?   Jenna Righi  39:36 It's funny that you say that too. Because I was never on social media. I got rid of Facebook before I started link and I emailed them I'm like, okay to have a business page you have to have a personal account and you do so I was never really because i'm not i'm very humble and very behind the scenes I don't like to brag or I was I was just never one that was big into social media originally. You have to get into it. Obviously you to make an impact. Now, you know, So that took a little bit of adjusting that was a, you know, not a comfort zone for me at first. But again, it feels great. And now, because I'm always wired again to think bigger, and I'm very hard on myself, I seriously take screenshots of one positive comment and I have it in a folder. It says just for Jenna positive to read down, that's what I just keep focusing on when I'm having a bad day to get my mindset back. It's like, okay, you know, you get one negative by which to be honest with you, I mean, I get a ton of positive response, I really don't get much negative response at all. But what it's more for me, like, when I'm down on myself, more something goes wrong, then I'm constantly reading that those positive affirmations that, you know, other people are writing to me. And I mean, going back a little step back to when you're talking about failures. I mean, I just thought, all right, I'm gonna break down this chain and put a logo on it, and I'm gonna sell some stuff. I did not realize that, you know, a mid million hiccups along the way, like, first off, trying to sell because, and I met with a metal specialist after this. And he was basically saying, hey, you're trying to sell an industrial product, and turn it into jewelry, like it can't work. And I'm like, well, it can work and I'm going to make it work, I would set these links in like bleach for a month for a rubbing alcohol, nothing would happen, no fading, I put it on the skin, and it would turn like green. I mean, just things like that, that you don't think about it. So it took me like six months to figure out how to play it correctly, where it wouldn't rub off, you know, on the skin. It's just those type of things that you know, you have to be ready for. But so I guess you know, when I'm in those type of settings, or you know, I get a printer breaks or something like that. Those are when I go back and I read the Why are you doing this just for Jenna, and I'm really reading all these positive response that it's like, okay, go get the printer fixed. Figure out the plating, your engraver broke. I mean, those are the things that get me through those type of hiccups throughout my day, for sure.   Chris Harris  41:59 So cool. What's man? Like, what's what's next?   Jenna Righi  42:04 Well, we obviously have a bunch more skews coming, and I'm waiting to get them back from my photographer. Um, but what I would love to do down the road. So obviously, more skews are always coming, I always want to come out I'd like eventually like it like a jewelry brand where, you know, again, that's why our skews are so small. Now it took me almost a year to figure out the initial links with all the plating and so it didn't rub off. And so it stayed on for months, you know what I mean. But now that we got that nailed, it's definitely adding more skews. But I would love to do something with the stories, like have like a card deck, or I'd eventually like to have like a book or like a chicken soup of the soul or whatever. Because I also did that like when they share a story of yours just signing off on the terms of service that we could use it for purposes like that. And I mean, again, it's just by first name and state, but I would love to do something with a book or like a picture deck or something like that, or even like, but definitely something more on the mental health side with the stories and helping people that way. So the jewelry is there. We're getting that nailed down, adding more skews. But as far as like the stories in the more mental health side, I would love to do that. For sure.   Ryan McDevitt  43:12 I feel like you're in the way that you motivate yourself, which is you know, referring back to things and kind of like embodying embodying energy, the chart you have a card deck would be spot on. I think it's like it's hot right now. You could probably work with an artist that would be able to embody your brand pretty well. Yeah. There's   Jenna Righi  43:31 somebody that wrote a book, so maybe they could Yeah, that's true.   Ryan McDevitt  43:36 It could be anything major. Major. I got the website. to any regard though, I think if Are you familiar with Kim Kranz? You know who that is, she's created a bunch of decks. Yeah. Yeah, Kim green so she has created in writes about emotion and maybe her stuff leads a little bit more towards spirituality than support. But I think that like the subjects are really closely linked and so hearing about the way that you choose to enlighten yourself by again like picking something that's like hey look like today, if you could just make it through today in the right way, then there are there there are people that are cheering for you. A lot of times they'll decks so to speak, and you know, depending on how you want to incorporate your stories I feel like these decks are really like daily motivational that way or when you're down you know, pulling a card out of a deck and saying like, you know, I'm just gonna I'm going to read some guidance from this very simple thing. And I think like a lot of times that's a little easier for people to interpret then you know, such a religious or spiritual type interaction for like what's happening today, you know, so I'd be in support of that. I'll order one of those. I got myself a necklace. Or Anna ordered a couple necklaces earlier for us. I'm excited to have you here   Jenna Righi  44:49 the best the I his wife ordered necklaces. That's so sweet. You did not have to do that.   Ryan McDevitt  44:54 What do you guys golden flashes. She likes that gold. She got golden flash low. Yeah for the golden flashes.   Chris Harris  45:01 That's right, man.   Ryan McDevitt  45:03 All right, well, you didn't tell us much about I know you probably got something else on there. That's, that's, that's what's next, right. But I do want to give you a chance to kind of like promote if I want to like sign up for the site. Or if I want to get on an email list, or I want to follow you on Instagram or any of those things that I think are motivational. It's not just about like ordering yourself a piece of jewelry, even though it might be that because I think the pricing is right. The other thing that I always like is products like that, where the pricing is right to send it to somebody else. Yeah, right. Like something where it's like, oh, man, like, this isn't a big deal to buy to somebody else. I think Jenna's products are definitely within that line, too. But like, how do I get to your stuff? And how do I find you? How do I how do I connect with you?   Jenna Righi  45:44 Yeah, the site is just link before you sync.com I always make it clear to Yes, we sell jewelry, but you can go on there, it doesn't have to work, buy a piece of jewelry, get a story and then share. I mean, I always say you could just go on there and share your story. You don't have to buy a piece of jewelry to share your story. So the site is just linked before you think.com and then our Instagram is just at link before you sink.com and we also have a fake Facebook page. Just link before you sink as well.   Ryan McDevitt  46:13 No Twitter,   Jenna Righi  46:14 no Twitter, no Twitter, social media originally and maybe I'll maybe I'll get there someday.   Ryan McDevitt  46:21 My prediction is Twitter's not going to be around much longer. I feel like almost every now every person we talked to like Twitter's just not.   Chris Harris  46:29 It's all about ties it ruined Twitter and now Yeah,   Jenna Righi  46:32 but President, Twitter all about ID.   Ryan McDevitt  46:36 It is about Igy It is about Igy Well, we're at conventioNOT not underscore podcast if you're not following by now. I hope you take a second to go out to Jenna's pages. I think this is this is something that's really unique and it's a cool way to support things. It really is with intention and stop ordering jewelry and shit off Amazon anyway. Right? Right like like really give personalized gifts it's within your throw. Especially in times like these not too early to start start shopping for for holidays is a nice   Chris Harris  47:08 little stocking stuffer.   Ryan McDevitt  47:10 My mother in law say something about Christmas gifts the other day and it just like is noise escapes me that like you know the summer will come to an end. It will be that time. So anyway, thanks for joining us today. We really appreciate you taking time out of your evening. And we'll be back at you soon. I   Jenna Righi  47:29 thank you guys a pleasure was all mine anything you know, like I just want to get it out there anybody that I could help again. I mean, that's everything to me. So thank you so much for your time. I greatly appreciate it.   Ryan McDevitt  47:39 very enlightening.

Jason Goggans' fitness career is deep. Really deep. He's been in the game for over 20 years, owned several gyms and transitioned to the online marketplace. The thing is, his career and weight-loss business seeks a really cool client: somebody who already heads to the gym. It's not because Jason likes the easy route. In fact, his career has been anything but easy. After re-routing his career goals from Federal Law Enforcement, Goggans hasn't abandoned his love for civil servants charged with protecting America - he has charged toward them. How does a former officer help his former colleagues? To him, it seems simple: approach fitness with tenacity and knowledge.  Regular conventioNOT Podcast listeners won't be surprised to hear some of the topics sway away from Jason's day job - and into his former life. You'll have to listen to the episode to hear why Goggans said that recording with us is one of his favorite interviews ever.  This episode is gets back to the roots of the show and it's probably not surprising to hear that McD and Goggans have some conflicting opinons.  Click on http://conventionot.com to hear more validated experts like Wendi and find out a thing or two about how they stay happy AND successful. Available on all podcast channels.

When Chris Hoogerhyde decide to get clean almost two decades ago, he was a celebrated expert in some pretty dirty things. Now, after helping countless humans find their better selves, Hoogerhyde finds a lot of joy in finding what makes other people happy.  Not only is he funny in some of the stories he shares, but his self depreciation truly an art form. This episode is a little different than the norm. Many of our guests share about their success, challenges and how they won. Chris is open about his time in prison and the hours he spends helping people. You'll love this episode, which includes some really cool stories about Mike's family and some previous episodes on conventioNOT.  If you feel like you want to talk to some of the people Chris mentions on this episode - you can reach out directly by clicking on https://www.aa.org

Video Games are a multi billion dollar industry. Most people get how big that is and our guests this episode all consider themselves "Gamers," in one way or another. Mike sits down with Mike Dougherty, Anna McD and Chris Harris to dive deep into the nooks and crannies of gaming, its impact on their lives and the very real value that the hobby brings to each of them. Don't miss out on this new episode format that the guys from the show are playing around with. We'd love to hear what you think.  Unfamiliar with the episode guests? Each of the episode's experts is nearly at the top of their profession... and you can learn about Mike, Anna and Chris on their individual episodes by scrolling down through the conventioNOT archives, where you'll be able to tune into their deeper stories. Gamers is one of our shows focused on experts who are pulled from our deep rolodex of guests. Available wherever you listen to podcasts. Click on http://conventionot.com to quick launch your favorite app.  

When DeMarvelous and Chris met years ago in a Detroit production studio - their relationship started off with a joke and a smile. It didn't take long before their fire connected and a creative partnership was born. Even then, these two good dudes were questioning some of the perils of their beloved art: violence, drugs and disrespect.  Fast forward nearly a decade later and after producing music for some of hip hops biggest names and DeMarvelous had an awakening in his spirit that you need to hear. A little teaser, it started with a not-so-typical meeting of an Aurora and it still perseveres to this day. Carter has recently started Infinite Audio Music, a service designed for podcasters, YouTube influencers and people who really don't want to steal music from artists. You'll have to listen to the full episode to hear how he came up with it after moving across the country.  Click on http://conventionot.com to hear more validated experts like DeMarvelous and find out a thing or two about how they stay happy AND successful. Available on all podcast channels.  

Wendi Freeman is no stranger to the big leagues. After a strong exit from planning events in startup-heavy Atlanta's tech space, Freeman was left in a place where she knew she needed to draw on her experience and self improvement to launch herself back into the market.  When she and Be Bright Events emerged a short time later, it was with a breath of fresh air in approaching a stale market that she knew well. Mike and McD joke with her time planning sorority events and better than average dinners while learning more about the ways they might be able to plan a conventioNOT event - something Ryan has been bugging the guys about for a while.  Freeman didn't just drive herself back into the market, she sat things down for a bit and really finds that carving her own niche leads to a career with greater self-fulfillment and happiness. This episode is gets back to the roots of the show and we're excited to share it with you.  Click on http://conventionot.com to hear more validated experts like Wendi and find out a thing or two about how they stay happy AND successful. Available on all podcast channels.

Even with YouTube and the internet, It's really hard to believe that all humans aren't awesome at everything. One thing that nearly all of us need is help on training ourselves to be financially secure.  There are countless books, webinars and weekend conferences on saving, preparing for life and increasing stability in our lives through the way Americans spend money. Problem is, a lot of that stuff is motivated by the presenter and lacks deployable advice and feedback on effort.  Suzanne Johnson has carved a really valuable spot for herself in our economy: a financial coach. Just like a dietician or athletic trainer, she and her business, Grace Financial Coaching specialize in helping people achieve confidence through training their habits. It's that simple. The story on how she got there is pretty cool. As a young executive in the shopping mall and commercial real estate industry, her life lessons with internal success and failure - and very real debt present a great story. Mike and McD are intrigued to learn from Suzanne on how careers and happiness do matter.  We're not sure if Grace Financial Coaching is accepting new clients - but this episode is worth a listen and we're sure as hell accepting new listeners.  Click on http://conventionot.com to hear more validated experts like Suzanne and find out a thing or two about how they stay happy AND successful. Available on all podcast channels. 

Chris, Mike and Ryan get back around the microphone and record discuss some of the events that happen between the guys when not recording the show. Dj Scrilla just published his first book, “You can be anything, Major” and as usual, the CHarris train is rolling strong with TV interviews and autographed copies hitting the mail. Mike & McD can't help but inquire about his creative process. conventioNOT Groupies are in for a treat when our hosts get vulnerable by recounting offline personal conversations and the discussion turns to the differences in TV and the way that race and culture seems to have drastically changed since our hosts sat in front of set in their boyhood living rooms. Things get a little deep for a minute. This episode marks the end of our best month in recording the show. Our listeners and feedback grows - including 5 Star Podcast ratings on several platforms. You can read our reviews... or download the episode already. You read this much. Just do it. Find us on your favorite channel by clicking on http://conventioNOT.com

Rick Jordan's background is deep. Matter of fact, he had just returned from a visit to the Whitehouse hours before joining Mike & McD on this episode. A longtime advocate for his religion, church and freedom - Rick's history with technology is pretty cool. He started with a well-earned spot early on with Best Buy's Geek Squad, back when cyber security was at its infancy. Jordan found himself helping America's homes understand tech and today he helps people realize their full potential. Today, he's offering protection across the world. And it's working. conventioNOT's premise is to get a nice background on individua history and this one really heats up when the guys start talking about some of the current events like Defunding Police, Voting Rights in America and his new film, Liberty Lockdown. The magic behind this maverick is his depth. The way he understands and delivers his motivational messages to his communities is clearly masterful. Join us for an exciting episode about fiery topics and personal opinions throughout. We are thankful that Rick joined us - and proud that we created a piece of content that even he noted is different than what he typically publishes. Find out more about another person and the depth behind his spirit by finding this episode anywhere you listen to podcasts or clicking http://conventionot.com

Rob Oliver is a dad, husband, best selling author, motivational speaker - and all around inspirational human. Mike & McD learn about his patience the hard way as they experience some technical difficulties getting started with the episode. Rob is unshaken and shares a really touching story about his newest book: “Who me? Yea, You,” which tackles some of the realities of bullying and speaking to readers about their very powerful ways to stop it. A Pittsburgh native, Oliver shares about a trip to the Outer Banks, North Carolina that changed his life forever, including a turned down proposal from his now wife and life partner. Luckily, she said yes some time later - but there's no way conventioNOT producers are sharing that story in this written introduction. We feel like that would be an injustice and needs to be heard straight from Rob Oliver as he tells it. Join the guys for this really special episode with the owner of yourmotivationalspeaker.com and you won't be wasting your time. Mike & McD feel fulfilled by a lot of our guests, but Rob's kind story and recollection of life is something they've never heard before. We hope our listeners will be just as touched. Find conventioNOT anywhere you listen to podcasts and don't forget to subscribe and follow us on your social media channel(s).

Mike, McD & Chris welcome Anna McDevitt and dive deep into communication, context and tolerance. It's taken a long time to get Mrs. McD on the show - and the wait was worth it. Chris and Anna went to Kent State university and reflect back on Facebook's validation rules.  Social Media and its value in our world has come up often on the show... and it organically finds its way into this complex discussion about context and holding space for others. Anna, a dedicated yogi shares quite a bit about her time reconnecting with yoga practice, meditation and leading people to find themselves in themselves.  This episode is another true AMA (ask me anything) and Chris really brings some strong questions to our hosts regarding the way we stay in touch, block people from our feeds and keep the positivity moving in times that are littered with negative media and statements. Be sure to subscribe to the show. You can find it on any podcast channel - and now YouTube. 

Hernan Sias has a number of certifications and professional designations like High School Financial Algebra Teacher, Real Estate Sales License, Life and Health License, CTEC Certified Tax Professional, and a bachelor's degree in Accountancy.  Aside from all of these valid credentials - Hernan Sias has something that most conventioNOT guests share: fire in his heart. Sias has become one of California's most notable podcasters and has some really monumental goals - including recording 500 episodes on his BusinessBros show and launching a couple other business forward podcasts over the next year.  Mike and McD didn't now much about recording themselves when they first started, thousands of downloads ago. Sias schools them both and ads a nice layer of encouragement. Be sure to follow us on instagram and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. 

J Cornelius' consulting career started at age 15, when he agreed to take $200 an hour to run sound and lighting in Texas. J shares life beyond sleeping in a tire swing as a teenager and building successful relationship with friends, clients and the world.  Though his earlier career was mired in necessity, J started building digital products since 1996, including one of the early platforms that had over a million users. Fast forward almost 25 years, Cornelius now runs Nine Labs, a digital product strategy, design, and experience consultancy operating in Atlanta and New York City. J raps with Mike and McD about coming up in a new industry, learning to take compliments and shares his insights about our flailing social media and information sharing habits. This episode of conventioNOT is a special one.  To be clear, J is a serial entrepreneur with multiple exits after starting that first business back in high school. One of the most interesting parts is hearing his smoothness of moving from organization to organization, creating steadfast relationships along the way. You can find conventioNOT podcast on nearly any platform. Be sure to subscribe!

Dr. Susan Tamasi is a pedagogist at Emory University. Spending the last decade and a half researching, authoring and teaching some of the brightest minds to communicate. The thing is, her approach to education and leaning is filled with a casual and comfortable tone. conventioNOT episodes are filled with interviews, but none quite like this.  Dr. Tamasi informs Mike and McD about the NBC Pronunciation Standards they learned as elementary students and dives deeper into the fundamentals of communication in the US. Shockingly enough, her drive as a linguist isn't to speak all of the languages... but to understand the people who do.  Show Transcription: 00:05 Hey everybody, welcome and thanks so much for joining us on today's episode of conventioNOT, I'm Ryan and I chat with Dr. Susan Tamasi, the program director of linguistics at Emory University.   00:16 What does that mean? That means Susan's studies the way people talk, specifically in the English language, she travels around the country around the world, listening, mostly listening,   00:31 but appreciating and understanding that the idea and the goal is communication.   00:39 We thought it was a pretty good time to share this message, and we can't think of a better person to communicate it.   00:48 I think Ryan and I have admittedly always been students so the way people interact with one another.   00:54 If that's the case, and Dr. Tamasi is definitely the Professor.   00:59 This conversation to me was one of the more fascinating ones we've had on the show, but I think you'll find it interesting, educational and thought provoking. It was heartfelt and pretty deep. Because I think we all need to take some more time to understand communication. If nothing else, just listen to one another. On that note, sit back relax. Check out this episode with Dr. Susan Tamasi.   01:32 We are recording.   01:34 Look at that. So, I guess, Mike, is it like 6am for you? You got coffee? I've got a beer. I do have my coffee. But no, it's noon. I mean, I've been up for a couple hours now. I mean, I'm doing pretty good. I'm well into my work day.   01:55 Our guests, Dr. Susan Tamasi was kind enough today to join us a little bit after work hours, I guess it's six o'clock eastern time, which is probably a little bit closer to what we're trying to record. Anyway, a little bit more casual interview.   02:09 But we're really glad to have you today. I'm excited to be here. Do you think you could take a second to introduce yourself? Sure. So I'm Susan Tamasi. My official title is professor of pedagogy and the director of the program and linguistics at Emory University, where I've been teaching for 17 years now.   02:33 Yeah, I live in Atlanta, Georgia. And I'm really excited to be here.   02:38 All right, right away. That word you used professor of. I've heard that. enunciate, oh, I'm gonna screw up a bunch of stuff today. So say that in normal people where it's like, what does that mean? teaching? It means teaching. That's all it means is what's pedagogy? God's here, go, gee, what's that word? What's the entomology of that word? entomology, the bugs of it.   03:12 One of my old roommates was an entomologist. So we had lots of jokes about me doing entomology around the house.   03:20 He also would bake with bugs, which always made things really, really interesting when they like, oh, a cookie. Oh, it has worms in it. Fantastic.   03:29 So pedagogy references,   03:33 not just teaching, but also the study about teaching and best practices and understanding, you know, different types of teaching and strategies and recognizing what's best for students and for those that are teaching them and the right materials. So I don't actually do research on teaching itself. But the position that I have is teaching focused as opposed to research focused. So yeah, that's, that's my title. How long have you been at Emory for 17 years? I just finished my 17th year. Congratulations. That's, that's quite a tenure. Does that include your time as a student? No. So that was a an additional for earlier on. So I went to Emory in the early 90s, fully dating myself now.   04:24 And then I left and I did a great little stint in the marketing, in marketing in the music industry, and realize that it sounded super cool. And I absolutely hated the work that I was doing. And I hated where I was, and I hated everything about it. So I went back to school for the thing that I started drawing Venn diagrams, and realize that I was really interested, like what drew me to music was youth subcultures and how communities interact with one another and   05:00 And I had been a Russian major at Emory. So I was, you know, also interested in language and how that comes across, and how it connects to community and society and identity. And so I started drawing all these Venn diagrams and realized linguistics was in the middle. So I went back to school for that. And six years after that started teaching at Emory, because one of my old professors needed somebody to come in and help with the program. And I just basically stayed until they started, kept signing my contract, so I wouldn't leave.   05:36 That sounds like such a simple approach.   05:40 What Yeah, sometimes they don't just show back up every year. I mean, clearly,   05:45 something pretty productive in your time.   05:49 I mean, you know, I just, I just kind of hang out until they finally said, Okay, I wore them down, I think, or, you know, I put in so much blood, sweat and tears that they finally said, All right, we get it, we get it. You can you can have this. Yeah. Where are you from that region. Like Originally, I know, you said you like when did your schooling there but like you grew up in that area. So I grew up in a suburb, Marietta east, Cobb, that's about 45 minutes ish north of Atlanta. So it didn't, I didn't go too far away from college. But it was far enough that my parents weren't going to show up. And then I left, I keep coming back to Georgia, I go away, I come back, I got away, come back. But it's it's home. So it's nice to be able to have a job that I love near my family, especially as my parents get older, it's been really nice to have that opportunity. Like, I feel like the time in full disclosure, Susan and I have known each other for a few years. But I feel like that time from what I understand around Atlanta that like, from the let's say, basically, from the time that the Olympics were announced that they were coming to Atlanta to the time with which you're talking about like you go to college, and you go through there, that it becomes kind of an urban epicenter. Was that part? I mean, certainly, that's part of your formation as a young person growing up in around the city that it is, but was that part of what dictated your career? Somehow? Um, I think it might have. So what dictated my career in terms of where I ended up, was the fact that I came from a family from New Jersey and was raised in the suburban south. And so the idea of how people sounded and what language that they used was something that was talked about a lot around my household, or you know, in terms of either making fun of people or just like, Oh, you know, the families just like dialect, right? Like, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I mean, that's what I do. I actually, my, my focus now is looking at the attitudes and perceptions that people have about dialects in the United States. So from there, there's a direct correlation. But it was also that I grew up in a suburban environment, I came into the city a lot, I had lots of interactions with people from around the country.   08:15 You know, around the world a little bit. I mean, I was kind of somewhat isolated in that, you know, we had some international students and stuff, but it wasn't nearly what I'm around right now.   08:25 And but it was, it was that experience that you know, you should travel and that you should see people in places and meet different types of people. I think that was the setup. That allowed me to   08:39 kind of see positivity and identity and diversity and kind of explore that throughout my life, both professionally and personally.   08:51 Holy shit, I'm so fascinated what you do, like, I'm sorry, I'm gonna be um,   08:59 this is gonna be awkward, cuz I'm gonna throw some questions out there that may make me so really, I hate being ignorant. Obviously, I hope everyone hates being ignorant. But there are just some things that, you know, I don't want to sound ignorant with any of my questions, but you will not I do something that's really weird that most people have. I mean, people like what do you do for a living? I'm like, I'm a linguist, and everybody just goes,   09:22 I have no idea what that means. And that's fine. And I love talking about it. Also, stop me and ask questions if I skip over something because I talk about this all day, every day. And so some, you know, judging how much detail to go into,   09:40 you know, if it's too much jargon, but like, I just love that this is such a tangible topic, right? I mean, unless you've never left here, your little county lines, um, you've heard some folks say the same words in a different way. You know, and I don't. I love that you're able to trace that back to you know, like,   10:00 Young a young age you had that that? Whether it was an interest or just the ongoing kind of joke in the house, you know, alright, can I say this? Like,   10:11 your family's from New Jersey? So do people in New Jersey think their accent is the norm? And everyone else talks by me? Like, is that just the natural? So the So the answer to that is generally speaking people think that whatever they sound like or whatever people around them sounds like that that's exactly what everybody should be speaking. And in fact, we can we refer to this in some instances when people are pretty secure and confident about their own speech. We call it linguistic security. Michigan tends to have the most linguistically secure people,   10:54 people like,   10:55 Yeah.   10:59 Like, I don't have an accent, like, Yes, you do. Um, New York, New Jersey, and the South East are three areas in the United States that have pretty heavily stigmatized, dialects, ways of speaking, that are talked about pretty openly in the media. You know, growing up, I thought, Okay, well, I mean, I'm Southern, and I have some some parts of my speech that are Southern, but I don't sound like those people over there. Those are the real Southern people. So there's, there's definitely a stigma that's really well known. So it wasn't that, like my family in New Jersey necessarily thought that they had the best speech, but they didn't necessarily think it was that bad. And the people, my family in Georgia, same thing, or they're like, Oh, you know, there are people that are worse. And I understand the perceptions of that some people think it's bad. But you know, this is my people. This is like, yeah, I mean, that's mom's cooking, right?   12:02 That's what it tastes like cast, right. And so I guess it's, well, not only is it supported by media, in a lot of like sitcom media. But there's also like experiences from that perspective. So having lived and worked in the southeast, and then coming from Michigan, and it's funny, I want to come back to this because we were actually taught that we talk normal. I mean, Mike, I don't know if you remember this or not. But like, I remember being taught that the Midwest accent is the   12:30 neutral. Yeah, maybe not good or bad, but just not on any side. If you look at it as like elementary education, like part of elementary education, we taught that right? For us, there certainly is a component with which well, I guess that contributes to your statement, right, Susan? But like, you know, being so confident and an overcomer. And that, but there certainly is in the southeast or in the northeast? And this is kind of a question like, you really can diagnose where somebody is from, I think a little bit easier than you can, let's just say west of the Mississippi.   13:07 I don't want to be so bold as to say why is that right? Because that could I'm sure be a huge answer. But could you give us some indicators on like, how that ends up happening? Can we just include of those five cities? You mentioned earlier? Can we include Boston in the Boston is?   13:22 Like, yeah, no.   13:25 So So there, there are a couple of things to talk about. So the way that language works is language is always changing and transforming. And it always works to meet the needs of its speakers. And as one of the things that happens all the time is light. I mean, one of the there are very few universals about language. The Universal is that language always changes. And now what happens is language will always change at different times in different places, and among different groups of people. So why do people in England sound differently than people in the United States, because people picked up and they moved over and they planted here. And then these two sets of people change differently over time. And so now we have two different lenses and variables. Yes. And so as people come together and split apart, their language continues to change. And so the people that split might sound like them for a little while, but then they'll start to sound a little bit different. So every place in the United States has to some extent, it depends on how closely you want to look or where you want to divide the lines. Everywhere has its own accent everywhere has its own dialect.   14:35 And I mean, in my class, I draw lots of maps and have, you know, people moving across the country and saying that   14:45 what happened was on the East Coast of the United States, so the places that were settled by English speakers earliest these are the areas Boston New York, Charleston, New England, Savannah   15:00 Ron,   15:01 Richmond, these are all the places that had their language set before the American Revolution. It's changed over time, but like that was in place. Now what happened is as those people moved west, this is my little This is my, as people moved west, they all started to interact with one another. So on the West Coast 5060 years ago, everybody's kind of sounded a lot of like, compared to the people on the East Coast, which still had those pretty distinct differences. Now, what's happening is in the last 2030 years, we're watching as the West Coast is changing as well. Northern California sounds different from Southern California, the Pacific Northwest sounds different than fornia. And one of the most interesting thing that's, that's going on right now that we've been able to track for the last 50 years, is there's there's a shift in how people are speaking along the northern part of the US. And it's happening just in cities. It's happening in Detroit. It's happening in Milwaukee, it's happening in Buffalo in Minneapolis, St. Paul Chicago.   16:15 And so those areas that used to be considered just like the common standard American Speech, actually, people speak more differently. Now they're   16:26 versus the rest of the country than they ever did. So now that's an area where I can actually pick out somebody from Michigan a lot easier than I can pick out somebody from most places in the United States anymore. Man, I could speculate all over that. I wonder how much digital communication and therefore so like, if I communicate digitally all day, do I become more Nucleic in the way that my localized accents affect me? If that makes sense, right? I don't know. That's so   16:57 that's a cool subject, man. Yeah, sorry. But those are two sides. So people always say, Well, I mean, and this happened with radio, it happened with TV, it happened with the internet, oh, with x technology, people are gonna start sounding more like, what happens is that doesn't happen.   17:14 What it does happen is you understand more people, because you're used to hearing them, like a standard British dialect, we have no problem hearing now. Because we hear it all the time.   17:26 you're interacting with more people you're hearing more people than you would have never heard before. It's not necessarily changing your speech a whole lot. Because it's still only a small part of what's going on and you don't interact with the radio or TV, you kind of have to have that interaction for it to affect you.   17:44 So people would always say like, oh, the United States, everybody is going to start speaking the same. We're actually speaking differently from one another. But these types of communication systems does allow us to have influence from people that we wouldn't expect,   18:00 or that we wouldn't have had before. I just   18:05 there's no one to answer one of the earlier questions that you guys had, the reason you were taught that you had, like, the standard best way of speaking was when we decided to create a media standard when TV, TV and radio were happening 30s 40s 50s   18:26 they went to the Midwest, and wrote down what people sounded like and said this, and actually, you can still find that booklet. It's the NBC standard national broadcast on people from the Midwest. That's Yeah, it's not Midwest, people found that out. We're like, we're good at something. We're gonna make sure everyone knows it. Right. Like it was, it was democratically American, the West, the East Coast, nobody knew what was going on in the West Coast, the East Coast was to had too much. Yeah, a reminiscence of previous times. It makes sense. I have just so many, because like I admitted earlier, like, once you started getting into this, I just have so many, like, entertaining anecdotes over the years that are very specific to this topic. And but they're all they're all related to travel. Um, and like what you're saying earlier about, you know, the change in the language and you know, that it the further back the roots go, you know, the less altered it has been over time. And I didn't even think about like, West Coast. I mean, in the fact that you say now, there are starting to be, you know, like, pockets of very different language along the west coast. Like, that's just   19:42 that makes sense. You know what I mean, but it's just the 30 years from now, people from Oregon are gonna sound completely different than people from San Diego and like, to me a kid from Michigan, maybe not, I mean, I don't know that's probably an extreme but the idea that you can pick that up um,   20:00 That's such a unique like, you must.   20:04 I love when musicians talk about just noises. You know what I mean? Because it's like, What are you talking about? Man, there's no, there's no beat, like, that's a street car, you know, but you must just hear noise, human noise in a, in a in a very different way. I was gonna say beautiful, but there's probably so much going on.   20:24 It's all beautiful. I love it all. I recognize like, I notice a lot of it, I don't notice a lot of it because I don't want to work all the time. Or sometimes you just turn it off. I've been out at cocktail parties and somebody starts talking about something. I'm like, Oh, can I can you guys make me not like, I don't want to work right now? Do we have to talk about this? And they're like, Oh, yeah, you do this for a living? And then they start asking questions like, okay.   20:50 But I'm actually kind of really bad at telling where people are from based on their speech, because there is so much interaction at this point, unless, you know, something comes out that's very specific of like, Oh, I know that one individual word or pronunciation is rarely used outside of this particular community. So sure, you know, I do that. But you know, when I hear it, I'm like, ooh. And my husband is like, really, you're gonna pick up on that.   21:18 So this might be a little bit of a good pivot point. Right. And so, you know, as we talked, the show is about both. And since you mentioned your husband, one of the things that has always infatuated me about you guys, is that you are in constantly in a pursuit of education about people in a constant pursuit about education around the world, actually, no, that's a big part of the way that y'all invest your resources. They call us y'all, they're almost almost comes off the tongue as if I don't say dollar.   21:52 Ultimately, I know that   21:55 you invest your dollars, and your resources, more importantly, experienced this around the world. So talk to us a little bit about that, because not so much, you know, in the academic format. I'm fortunate enough to see some of the the Facebook post and some of the beautiful pictures that Jamie takes when you guys experienced this, but how does that help inform your travel around the world?   22:17 Um, I mean, you know, he and I have made a pact A while ago, I don't know, implicitly or not   22:25 that I think we made a pact. But I don't know if we actually did,   22:30 it was just a decision that was somehow made that we work too hard just to kind of hang around here that when we have time off. And that's really when I have time off because I have a very specific schedule, as a teacher, that whenever I have any time off, so   22:48 winter break, spring break, summer, that we go somewhere. And as we've gotten older and have had the means to do it, we go broader and broader and where we can go around the world.   23:01 I was actually supposed to be presenting at a conference in Hong Kong this week. So that didn't happen. And I've never, never done Asia. So I'm really looking forward to the webinars not gonna be the same as going to Hong Kong. Well, they, yeah, they said, they didn't even try to do it online. They're like, we're just gonna postpone it for a year. It's a conference that happens every other year. So they're just gonna postpone this time.   23:28 So it's just and it's funny, because I gotta backtrack for a split second. Whenever I tell people that I'm a linguist, the inevitable answers that anybody gets who is a linguist. There are two responses, one Oh, I better watch what I say. Which is kind of ironic, since I'm the one who studies language variation and dialects and all of that. And like, yeah, I'm the last person to judge anybody's grammar. But the what most linguists get as the response is, oh, how many languages do you speak? Ah, that's the same thing. But lol and that's just it like everybody's just because they also use the word term linguist as translator, which is a totally different thing.   24:12 And so when people say, how many languages do you speak, I'm like, one, I speak English. That's what I study. I even I don't even study all of English. I study American English.   24:22 And I study the history of English. So we travel so much, it's kind of funny, because we were like, Oh, you must, you know, know all these languages and go all these places and like, now, it was just kind of really nice to go someplace and not hear people speaking English for a while, and just absorbing observations. Like, I'm not paying attention to what people are talking about, like if people are talking about politics, or if they're talking about somebody's clothing or just like completely banal inane, whatever they're discussing, and not picking up on that making. It's it's   25:00 not pulling me into that, which can happen around here. And I don't try to be judgmental, but sometimes like, what are you guys talking about?   25:09 Because I do use drop a lot. But it just allows me to travel and just watch people and eat and drink and experience architecture in all of the beauty that's around and the amazing aspects of people,   25:28 just by kind of not knowing and giving myself the opportunity to be aware of things that I'm not always aware of. So that, for me is a key aspect of of travel and being able to, to do that. So Ryan, I'm not sure if that really kind of got to what you're asking, but it did, right. I know, because of some of our previous discussions that learning the language, I know you're not the person. And there are people like this who gain a benefit from deciding they're going to go somewhere. And then they use, there are a lot of modalities. Now I think you could teach yourself on language to be able to survive that. And so, you know, maybe five years ago when I learned that this was something that you all invested resources in, right, because affordability hopefully changes for all of us right over time. And that's what we want to so many people spend every waking hour working on. But the possibility of going somewhere with your kind of background. I mean, I think almost I don't like the word assume. But I think that a lot of times it would be assumed or typecast that that you somebody like you would be going there to know all of the language to immerse yourself in that. And so that to me, always struck me as one of the like magical parts about knowing you all as a couple you as a person, because it wasn't about that it is about the way that that informs how you like take in all of the art, you mentioned the architecture and you know the pieces of the creativity in the areas you go that draw you and so there's no shortage of that here in Atlanta. But it's not like it's just too much English speaking though, she needs to go somewhere non English speaking just fine. I love I love traveling around the US as well. It's just really nice. So as you said like it's it's seeing and experiencing a different culture language is definitely a part of that. But it's it's the bigger aspect that I'm that I'm interested in as well.   27:30 And like so we do we learn at least some phrases I can I know probably how to ask for a table for two in order a bottle of wine in a good dozen languages at this point. So you know, we get that down. Before we go places, both of us will have kind of some of the basics. And we've studied languages that allow us to at least get some of those   27:54 general interactions pretty pretty well. We can kind of work some things out. And I've never been to a place yet where I didn't know that alphabet. So that's helpful to like being able to read signs and plaques and things like that. If you went to Hong Kong, you would have known the alphabet now No.   28:14 So I have a year, too. But in Hong Kong, I mean English as an official language. So actually, I'm not really worried about.   28:24 But in Yeah, my job also was to learn when we rent a car, I have to learn all the traffic rules of that country. That's my job as we go replaces. So you know, we'll learn a lot and we have part of that. But we also recognize that we're getting this much of the culture and this much of the language.   28:41 And instead of going back to the same place over and over again, to get a deeper understanding of that, we've made a choice to keep trying other places. So I mean, we recognize that we're getting surface level discussions and observations with people.   29:00 But, you know, it also allows us to have a very much broader view of the world. So   29:08 man, I just leave what I think is a broader view of the world. I don't know if everybody love and I'm sorry, because you You didn't paint this picture. But I've gone ahead and painted it in my mind of Gee, like, just deciding based on language alone, like now, I don't know, mainly English speaking. Let's avoid that one. Like, we don't need that. We know what they're saying there. I mean, because that different forms of English New Zealand was awesome. I'm so excited.   29:38 That is what I was getting at in a very roundabout way, which isn't a strength of mine to be succinct and direct. But if you've been to Hawaii before, yes. Okay. Um, so, you know, Ryan and I grew up suburban Detroit. My wife and I moved to Toronto. We lived in Canada for eight years.   30:00 Where I was often asked like, Are you from the south, and I would often very entertaining conversations with people about how I said hockey and things like that. Then I moved to Hawaii, and   30:15 I had never really lived   30:17 in, in an area where there was a   30:22 what's the right term for a severe alteration of English? I mean, I know what they call it here. I will, I will go one further. It's not a severe alteration. It's such a severe alteration, it's an interaction with other languages. It's a totally different language, pigeon. It's like it is. So you have Hawaiian English, but you also have Hawaiian pidgin English, or a totally different language. And it is, to me, it's the thing of like, in like, because I'm the type of person like, I just love differences in people. Like, that's something ever since I was a little kid, you know, my parents would be like, Michael, you cannot walk up to strangers and ask them about their hair, you know, like I was just like, but I've never seen someone with hair like, so I moved out here. And I'm lucky enough to have met a variety of people, including quite a few fishermen. One of the things that I love and respect the most about a lot of the guys that I fish with, is the fact that they can turn it on and off. So they will literally, they will speak to me and clean No, because they have their nine to five jobs. They're not on the boat all the time, guys, with their nurses mechanics of variety thing. They speak to me in plain English. And then they turn 90 degrees and speak to the other guys on the boat. And the language I cannot I might pick up like a 10th I kind of get what they're talking about.   31:49 And I love it. I just sit back and there's times where they're like, Mike, Mike, and I'm like, What? Like, we're talking to you, man. I'm like, Whoa, you gotta slow it down, or use some directional pointed stuff like, and it's just the best ongoing joke. I mean, I I can guarantee half the time they don't know they've switched. It's generally it's just the way it Yeah, this is the way I talk to this person. And so this is how I say it. When I'm talking. I think.   32:18 I think it's such an incredible ability, like cuz I imagined my buddy at work as a nurse, you know, when he's, he's talking to the doctor who graduated from Washington or whatever. Um, but then he's got to turn around and talk to this patient. And like, a lot of the times the patients and there's communities here in Hawaii, where it's, that's all they speak at home is Pidgin, right? So I cannot communicate to that patient to the same ability that my buddy, can you know what I mean? Like, yeah, and usually wait quicker to like, the thing I love about pigeon is that like, that was three sentences, you just smashed into two words. And the person you're talking to knew exactly, I don't know what you're talking about. But that person knew. And Damn, you got right to the point real quickly. Yeah, no, it's it's an amazing language to listen to. And there's such a connection there. And there was Hawaii has such a history of them trying to smash it.   33:21 Like the educational system trying to push it out. And there was, you know, people being punished for speaking it. And there's a resurgence,   33:29 where more people are learning pigeon, and and,   33:34 you know, using it in different areas. So in night, and you've seen you've given a perfect example, right, why it's important to have   33:46 it one of the other things I study is health communication. So the idea of this, this, like health care provider and patient interaction, where it needs to be, not only when the patient doesn't understand the more standard or doesn't understand English, like doesn't understand why in English, that you have to go into Pidgin to be able to get the point across, but also in a situation where you're also trying to comfort somebody, being able to speak to them in the home language actually, can make things easier and calmer, as opposed to just not just whether or not somebody understands but are you really communicating in a positive way?   34:35 Do you ever wonder why Mike and I spend all these hours talking to people? Well, mostly it's because we're curious. Secondarily, it's because we'd like to share the stories of people as we learn how to become better journalists. In order to help us out we would love if you take a second and give us some feedback on your podcast channel. just pause the episode, go and write us a review. Give us as many stars as you want. We'll love to read it.   35:05 Is that a different?   35:08 Let me let me rephrase that. What is the learning approach to something like that when you are, let's just take the physician example. Right? Because you know, in a lot of times, unless you are from that place originally, you're coming back there to work in that area you a lot of times professionals and healthcare placed in places. How do you how do you bridge that gap? I mean, I know that's your area of study, what are some things that you could share with us that help the layman understand how that gap gets bridged?   35:40 Um, well, one of the things that happens is a medical school does everything in their power to train doctors how to think and speak like other people are not like other people, I'm sorry. Like, it's you now have to think like a doctor, you have to interact with one another doctor, like you are, you are no longer of the people, you are experts in this field, and you need to show that. So you have things like case presentations, where   36:14 studies have found that when they're testing interns and residents on whether or not they can present their their cases, I guess med students, when they if they can do a case presentation, it has more to do with Are you using the right language? And are you presenting it confidently, as opposed to are you actually correct.   36:33 So, so that's one aspect of it. So having crossing that divide can be anything from, I recognize that the way I'm speaking as a health care provider is not the same. And I need to change the way I speak when I'm interacting with patients.   36:53 You know, we talk when whenever anybody switched between two different languages, or two different dialects, or even different just modes of speaking, we talked about it as code switching. So it might be that you're using one set of vocabulary and grammar with, you know, the nurse or the other doctor, and then you turn to your patient, and you make sure that you're using language that that particular community, that particular person can understand. Of course,   37:25 that's hard to do. And you know what, you have to be willing to do that. And you have to be willing to be trained to do that. And depending where you practice and what you're doing, there can be a whole lot that is involved in it. And it might be that it nobody wants a doctor that comes to them and start speaking in a dialect that's not their own, right.   37:47 It's just like, Oh, I think I think you're gonna speak this way. So I'm gonna start speaking because that's just that awful. I'm so it's   37:57 sorry, was that that's a sitcom. I think about so many language train wrecks that happened with sitcoms on health care. I mean, yes. A lot. Do you remember the movie airplane? Course? Yeah. Excuse me, stewardess. I speak jive, you know? And yeah. Oh,   38:15 yeah. Okay, what is happening here? Um, you know, so things could go very wrong very quickly. But it's the idea of recognizing that that people communicate differently and being willing to talk differently, or at least, listen, seems seems like a real crucial theme today. Right? Just maybe the first step is recognition. Not Not knowing Yeah, the answers, but maybe just recognizing, you know, and maybe not trying to answer yourself and listen for a second and say about it.   38:50 On that note, though, I have another question.   38:54 All right, so I'm gonna be replaying that phrase code switching over and over, as it's just a really cool sounding term to NPR has an entire area called code switch, that's a set of podcasts? Well,   39:09 that's what I was gonna ask you and not i'm not presumptuously because I would imagine that the kind of neurological activity and behavior of people with varying linguistic abilities, and I think I'm trying to sound smart, but basically people that can bounce around from language to language or code switch very efficiently.   39:32 Can you talk at all about like the brain act, I'm not asking you to say those people are smarter than others, but is that like something that you've studied or kind of delved into at all? I haven't, there are lots of people who have um, and I mean, so the example of what you were you were you're giving on the boat of your friends talking to you and then talking. Oftentimes when people are switching between   39:56 two languages or two dialects, they don't really recommend   40:00 They do it. They just we, when we're speaking,   40:04 we go for what we think is going to be the best way to communicate.   40:08 And we tried to, there's a thing called linguistic accommodation where we, we want to speak, like the people that we're talking to even minorly. Because it shows us social connection as well. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, languages stored generally in the same place. And I'm not I don't know enough about what's going on in the brain with multiple languages. But you know, you can access it from kids, before they have any idea how to tie their shoes, they're able to switch between multiple languages perfectly without even thinking about it. And it's, it's actually better if you're really thinking about it, you know, you just automatically go back and forth.   40:55 And sometimes you have to make a decision, like if you're, if you're in a place where it's a bilingual place, but you know, that there are different attitudes associated with different ways of speaking. Do you approach somebody you don't know, and you start speaking the language that if both of you speak it, it might connect you as like the local language, but it all could come across as like, I don't think you know this well enough. So I'm going to talk to you.   41:25 You know, there's a lot morally right, yes, yes. So, I mean, there's a lot involved. Oftentimes, people switch between different languages, when they get very emotional. There's certain things that they will automatically say, in one language, or one dialect versus another. Gotcha.   41:46 I know, a couple Spanish, where it's quite well, my wife, the daughter of a Mexican woman, and they're not like, I love you. It's not No, no, no.   41:57 No, it's one of those abilities, though, that I think, you know, when you hear about someone,   42:05 and I'm thinking like Jason Bourne, but that's that's like a stupid example more like, you know, some traveling business person who isn't overly impressive, but can like hang in five different languages, to me that and that's like, maybe a fault of my own that is so exotic, and amazing to me, that I automatically placed that individual's intelligence at like, such. But I think that's because for me, there's nothing more important than being able to talk to other people. And like some prejudice of sorts, right, exactly. Like, I don't think that that that ability necessarily equates to like, that person might not be he might not know how to add, or she may know, you know, not have all that rain.   42:51 So that happens, like some people are just like, sometimes people get elected, you can imagine.   42:59 One reading is a very, very different skill.   43:04 Yeah, let's, let's let's get into that one in a second.   43:08 No, absolutely. So I there's a joke that says, What do you call somebody who speaks multiple languages? Somebody who's multilingual, what do you call somebody who only speaks one language? American? Yeah. Now no. reality. Right. So use you saying that, you know, somebody going around speaking five different languages is exotic for most of the world. That's just their daily basis, you have to speak most communities around the world speak at least two, usually three, and more languages for interacting, because you have small communities that have historically spoken languages. And as people move around, you speak with them. So that's, that's like multilingualism is actually the norm. We're weird and not speaking multiple languages normally, but it also Yeah, for us, it's, we have this idea as Americans that's like, Oh, well, you must be really smart to be able to speak multiple languages must be like a secret agent or something, you know.   44:10 And they're in and the idea of like, but you know, how do you speak five languages, but you can't read anything. Like for us there's a disconnect, but that's, that's a pretty normal, like, Girl. If you grew up in The Hague, you speak for four languages. Yeah. And like, you might not have graduated high school, but yeah, you speak four languages. Like that's just that's the and that was my experience in Toronto. Um, is, is you know, it's a it's a matter of need, right? I mean, man, a lot of people learn a whole new language just for a vacation. When you move there about 30 days in, you get tired asking for the same thing every day. Right? So you learn what the next thing is, and   44:51 it's a it's such a cool topic for me I could go on and on and on about this. I this is tied to this every day.   45:00 For the last 20 years,   45:04 and as a teacher, I pull more people into my world, I'm like, come with me, come talk to me about this, I can imagine that this is gonna be a multi part interview I talked   45:15 a little bit about, like, are asking the expert type discussions, you know, for our listeners in they've heard a couple of them now, Mike, you know, where we're taking a little bit different angle above and beyond just the interview components, but there's kind of, there's this like initiation thing that you have to go through, you have to be interviewed, before we get into the expert part. So I could do this. I know we're getting close to our hour here. But I really, if I could I want to ask one real final question. These from from my camp, which is   45:48 it's no secret to most people who are listening now that we have this time in what started in America with the world that is relative to race and brutality in, in what's going on, right. And so, this show is not about that. And, you know, we are an episodic show, meaning that we talk a lot about things that we hope could be published for years on end. And it's an autobiography, biography type of an interview that we're hoping to achieve today. But when you think about unity across the world, and you think about how language affects unity,   46:24 myopically here in the United States, relative to you know, the current exacerbation has to do with police brutality, and this ever burning, you know, very true   46:36 difference in races in the United States and difference in socio economic ways that that works out in your life, or how does language save us? Like, I don't want to make it so prophetic, but like, how, how does that help? Like how, how do we how do we, how do we become better partners to each other better tribes, as groups to other tribes to let language start to develop peace in this world?   47:04 I love this question. This was a phenomenal question.   47:08 And I do think language can save us. But I also switch it a little bit from not just language, but communication. So it's the idea of being willing to talk to people. And right now what's going on in the United States, being willing to listen, and not passively listen? actively, they call it 360 degree listening, where your brain isn't off thinking about some other stuff. And you're just kind of you're actually listening and processing and thinking through? What is this person telling me? What is this community telling me? What do I not understand? And how can I ask questions so I can understand.   48:02 So I think language can save us by giving us the ability to communicate, but really having the will to communicate and listen and process and think through and speak up. I know, I'm not as good as this as I should be. When you hear something when you hear other people say things that are untrue.   48:26 If not, false, are just on.   48:32 I don't even know the term at this point. Because words are hard.   48:37 Getting You know, when you hear something, it's not always just about correcting but having somebody like, okay, you said this, but what about if you actually think about it from the other person's perspective? Or, you know, what, if you're listening to somebody, I read something the other day that was talking about reactions to these stories that we've been hearing. And in particular, this was the issue that happened in New York City in the park, where   49:05 Amy Cooper called the police. And there was this blog post that I was reading that was talking about how all of these people were saying, Oh, well if it were me, I would be doing something else. If it were no, if I was there, I would have said something if and the blog focused on   49:28 the idea of stop making it about you stop making it about how you're experiencing it and how you feel about it. That's fine process that work with it. But stop and listen to what   49:44 the other people have or you know, all parties you know, the I can't Mr. Cooper, the guy who's I can't remember his first name. Now. That was the birdwatcher that had the police called on him. You know, look at it from his perspective and what was going on. Listen to him.   50:00 Listen to what he has to say. And listen to what he said in the video. So it's I think this is a long winded answer, and I apologize for that. But I think it's the idea of speaking up when you can, listening to one another, the idea of communication, regardless of what language that's in whatever dialect it's in, you know, find a way to understand   50:24 when we talk about people talking to folks with especially that speak stigmatized dialects, like African American English, we use this phrase   50:34 communicative burden, that sometimes as listeners, we just say, I don't understand what that person is saying. Or if it's somebody who hasn't done is non native speaker of English, I'm not going to understand what that person is saying. So I'm not going to listen, or whatever, they're not speaking in a way that I want to follow in that can be politically valid, as you know, in terms of politics, like you've used a term or you're coming from a perspective that I want, don't want. So I'm gonna stop and I'm putting the communicative burden on you to change how you speak. So it's better for me. And that's just not fair. So it's, it's taking that burden onto yourself.   51:18 I hate that you felt the need to apologize for that amazing answer. It's long winded out of need. There's there's no way to none of this is an easy, easy answer. And I, I could not even if I sat down and wrote it over and over again, have have expressed it better than you did. I mean, what I took from that actor is you don't need to speak the most important part of communication isn't what comes out of your mouth. So just shut up. And listen.   51:51 That's the that's the best place to start is just listening and, you know, compassion and greater effort on all of our parts. I that what that communicative burden, another amazing term? There's a version of it, if there's another word, or what was the other link was the other work? All right, yeah. Do   52:16 you guys have very   52:18 phrases?   52:20 But how tragic is that? And you know, what's messed up is like, embarrassingly?   52:26 Well, embarrassingly, I think we all need to just get a little bit better at this, you know, 2030 years ago, growing up in suburban Michigan, it was, it was a lot more acceptable to walk around with that burden. And be like, you know, you're not from here. I don't know why you're talking like that. But you're here, you should talk like us. Like that was, that was a normal attitude from where I'm from. I'm   52:54 like, just, like, just think about think about that shit. Like, I'm sorry to use such a dumb but   53:02 because you move to your 10 years before they did, you have the right to say how people should speak when they move here. And they're seeking the same things that your family was seeking when they came here, and it's just,   53:16 ah, I'm all sweaty.   53:20 Even, even if they are speaking English, the idea of like, well, you're speaking English differently than what I'm then how I'm used to hearing it. So I need I and I'm gonna shut that down. Because I can't understand you. There's, there's this really great study from a professor that I used to work with named Donald Rubin, where he had the same voice, recorded giving a lecture. And then he played it for a group of students. But he had two different pictures. And one was a white dude, I think it was a guy I can't remember, a white person and the other was somebody from East Asia or had features from the East Asia, I should say. And not it's the exact same voice. And the students were like, Oh, I didn't understand that one person I understood. The first one or I didn't understand to the extent that when they were actually questioned, like given up like a pop quiz on the on the lecture, they actually did worse. Because they're like, Nope, I'm not gonna know this person is bad. They just they close their ears do it. And   54:32 hey, thanks for taking time to listen to Mike and I Today, I wanted to talk to you just for one second about reviewing the podcast. It really, really helps us out and it places us higher on search engines, as well as the other podcast channels that publish our show. So if you listen to conventioNOTup, you dig what you hear. Take a second go out, give us five stars, give us a few kind words or just real words, whatever the hell you want to say. out there on the review channel of your podcast show.   55:08 I feel like those are the things that we should know more about as we figure out how to bounce out of this like outrage culture, however, whatever that means to you, because that in its own right is like this incendiary term, right? Like, everybody else is outraged, or I'm outraged or whatever. But ultimately, I feel like combining your first and your answer to the first question, when you say, you know, in summary, like, Listen, stupid.   55:32 The reality is that   55:36 it's what gets communicated. And if you don't pay enough attention to what's trying to be communicated, it's quite possible that you could inform yourself incorrectly. And here are the examples. You know, I mean, not everybody will be able to maybe identify with an example of a lecture in a classroom, but most people probably would, because that is such a distinct thing that I think that almost all of us can identify, you know, when humans are frustrated, at least in my experience, and this I mean, is by what I do, is we reach for a lifeline often, to justify our frustration, and if we can clean to that Lifeline in that Lifeline is incorrect. And it doesn't really save us, right, you know, it's sometimes it occludes us too early. And I wish more people could really approach life with such an open hearted, you know, a perspective, I think that probably requires being open to them when they're young. And when they come to mic, like, like you said, when you're when you're new to the place, so that so that those occlusions don't happen.   56:42 Another good example, to have that beyond the lecture. Example is   56:49 color customer service calls or tech calls. A lot of people have that they just keep hanging up until they get somebody that quote, unquote, speaks American,   57:00 like this person will not be able to help me. Right? Right. That's a real thing like to speak American, like, what a beautiful if we could just get a name and address of everyone who ever uttered that phrase.   57:19 positively, there's a really great   57:24 healthcare communication. Okay, and so we have overseas customer service. Those listeners who know the name of my company, maybe they could do this, I'm not going to link them together this way. But our best incoming customer service English is in the Philippines. Mm hmm. So would you like, like, that's where the phone calls come in. With such English as spot on. Compassion is great. There's very little hang, there's actually, you know, hang up that you could talk about probably from the customer service end, right. And so it's the Philippines. That changes actually, at least in my the past decade that I've been working internationally. Because, especially with healthcare, like you mentioned earlier, that accent is so important, right? However,   58:06 right, wrong, or in different call centers internationally make a heck of a lot less mistakes. A lot of people think it's just about the cost. But we shouldn't typecast that, it's that those international systems, as long as you know, we're able to train them with with the right accent, quote, unquote, right? They make less mistakes, and there's use of data to back it up. I would have never like, I would have just assumed it was 100% function of cost, which is I think,   58:36 is old school ignorant kind of   58:40 presumption. It really is, um,   58:44 oh, man, I'm really, really sharing my ignorance today.   58:49 That but you know, I, like I said, I'm down to be the dude in the crowd that raises his hand and he admits like, Hey, I'm here to be better. Um, I, that's a scary notion and in today's society, but if we all just kind of try a lot harder. That's the kind of unity I don't know. It's, I think it's a lighter question. But you know, I've we've found it sometimes delves into deep, deeper parts of our brains. Um, we asked us of a lot of our guests and I think I'm really really dying to hear   59:23 your response. Doctor, we   59:26 were curious, what do you think the 1516 year old Susie would would would think of what you're up to today where your passions are and kind of, or vice versa? If you if you would rather give some advice to that teenager, you can do that. But I want you to, I want you if you can bounce between now and then.   59:47 Um, I think I think 15 year old Suzy would be surprised, but really pleased with at least with like   1:00:00 The work that I'm doing and where I ended up in terms of a career, the the fact that, you know, me making a couple comments about my mom's accent, and the fact that my cousin's made fun of me for using y'all. It's like, wait, you turn that into a career? Good for you. You've written books on that topic. That's awesome.   1:00:25 You know, I, I think I would be proud of the work that I've been able to do to get people to think about things that they haven't thought about before and think about diversity in ways that   1:00:41 they overlook, oftentimes, I mean, we didn't throw around the word diversity so much when I was 15, and 16. But   1:00:50 But I think the I think that type of thing was in the back of my mind, at that point, I was interested at 16, I was starting to get interested in the idea of travel and other languages.   1:01:04 When I was I think I was 16, maybe 17, when I started studying Russian,   1:01:10 which is what I majored in, in college, still can't speak it, but that's what I meant.   1:01:16 So I think the fact that I would say, Oh, you went with that, but turned it into something different, I think I would be disappointed in the fact that I can't speak Russian fluently, or I can't speak Italian, which is what my family historically speaks, that I couldn't speak anything fluently. I think, I think I'd be like, really, you've had this long, you couldn't, you couldn't have worked with that.   1:01:38 But yeah, I but the idea of me being a teacher and a researcher, and an academic, would have shocked the crap out of me, because I, my parents didn't go to college.   1:01:51 I didn't know anybody who was a professor, I had no, there was no experience that would have made me think like, oh, teaching is the right role for you. And even when I entered a graduate program, I wasn't even thinking about that. I just wanted to learn some more. So I'd be really, really surprised to know that on a regular basis, you know, sometimes daily, I get up in front of 100 people and talk about stuff. And I am perfectly happy doing that. I love doing that, actually, what could the 16 year old version of you want more, you just said your career, I get a smile on your face has only gotten bigger the variety of subjects we've covered today, it's just a, you mentioned something there that I do have to touch upon, just that you forged this past yourself. Um, and that's, it's a common theme. A lot of our guests. I mean, it's called conventioNOTthat for a reason, um, but to me just say both of my parents are educators, you know, my, my dad has his PhD in education. My mom got her master's in the 80s. Um, but they don't, they're not engineers, they don't do what I do. Um, and so I really, I love that this was completely out of nowhere. And nobody you didn't have anybody to look up to and say, Yeah, that looks okay, I'll, I'll go down that path. So, to me, you get an extra applause for   1:03:18 you know, going out on this limb on your own and then making it awesome. Because you I mean, you use there's no way people meet you and wonder if you're happy and in your career and in your in your life, because you   1:03:31 and you're in the right spot.   1:03:33 You know, we get to spend a lot of like, personal time together. And sometimes wine comes out and all that kind of stuff and the nature of our lives. Yeah. Right. Sometimes the nature of our,   1:03:45 my wife, Anna, and   1:03:48 Susan's husband, Jamie, we were able to share some of our observances about where we're good at each other,   1:03:57 with each other, not at each other. But one of the things that is always so inspirational is about the way that that continually becomes kind of like part of our conversation. I always think when when we're in these groups of couples sharing about a line or whatever that might be, and I can't help but think that that's what dictates to like, being able to open up into conversations like this today, or really the way that you do, being able to influence young minds. You know, I mean, we didn't talk a lot about that today. Because, well, there was no reason we didn't talk about it. We're learning today. But I know that that's a big part of what makes you tick is to be able to have those relationships and to follow students getting into law school and making those you know, next steps to influence the world. So I hope that someday we could get you to come back and talk a little bit more about that.   1:04:48 In the meantime, if I want to get a hold of you, or if there's something that I there's this kind of two questions, one, how do I kind of you know, get a hold of you in the appropriate manner. But also, if I didn't want   1:05:00 Get a hold of you. But I want to learn about a career, whether that be in linguistics or as an educator, where would I go? And then I'll wrap us up however we do that, but this is this has really been one of our better interviews. I really appreciate this today. Thanks. I've had so much fun with this. Thank you so much. I'm so my full contact information is through the Emory University website, the linguistics program there and anybody can always reach out to me, send me an email is probably the best way to do it. And I'm happy to answer any questions that people have. There are a ton of resources out there about linguistics and about careers in linguistics. I like to point people to the linguistics Society of America, their website, especially folks that are starting school and thinking that they might be interested in studying linguistics, there's an entire area of wide major in linguistics, or what kind of fields can I work in? If I study linguistics? The short answer is everything. Like it applies everywhere, you can apply linguistics to every single career.   1:06:13 And so they have a lot of resources. There's also some really good books that are out there. There's one called the five minute linguist, and that I just started reading, and it's really, really short vignettes. And there's some videos that are out there that go along with it, of just like some of the key questions that people might have about language. So if anybody's just interested in like, really, really short ways of learning a little bit about language or the types of questions you can ask about language, it's a good book that I recommend. And   1:06:44 what about the ones you wrote? I mean, are those those worth recommending? Well, my textbook linguist language and linguistic diversity in the United States, 2015 by Rutledge   1:06:57 that we're working on the second edition, so that is available and it is online.   1:07:04 And it ends I have a new book called linguistic plants of belief, which talks about p southerners views about dialectal differences in the United States and about views about   1:07:20 man coming out. So that's coming out in October. It was supposed to come out this month, but it's been postponed. I was pulled on to this project with Paulina bounce and Jennifer Kramer some wonderful, amazingly bright women. But yeah, so linguistic planets of belief comes out in October. Okay, yeah, that that's why I'm excited for that October. That's my birthday month so anything going on in October it's gonna be great. It's gonna be well and right now more more to come upon this and I'm gonna be probably relatively certain that YouTube will meet face to face but Mike and I are talking about a South East trip in the month of September in which we will go throughout the southeast as Damn Yankees and experience the world. Everyone can hear us talk time. Yeah, yeah, Kara's   1:08:09 point.   1:08:11 Yeah, can I plug one more thing before we go just because of what our was talking about with what's happening in the us right now. We went to the North Carolina, North Carolina language and Life Project has just come out or not just come out last year came out with a documentary called talking black in America.   1:08:31 And you can look it up online talking black in America was talking Black america.com. But I can't remember. It is a beautiful hour long video documentary that interviews people and talks about what black languages in the United States and its history and its development in the social views that go along with listening and being a speaker of it. And for anybody that is thinking about   1:08:59 how to listen and how to communicate. It's a beautiful time to watch this video. Okay, thank you. I   1:09:07 will share that right away. Thank you. Yeah, we started by Well, well, it's really been a pleasure. I'm almost sad to hear it go to an end or at least better less listeners are but there will be more. I would love to have a Ask me anything about writing a textbook. I feel like that could be something that would be really really cool to be focused on. From from an expertise perspective. I'm good at telling people how not to write a textbook because exactly the process that I went through all the obstacles you trip down along the way right. I always thought that parenthesis tell the story anyways on the inside, right. So maybe maybe you could help set those bumpers on the outside. So just to close us down. If this is your first time listening to us if you found your way to us through Dr. Tamasi. We are conventioNOTnot and we promote ourselves through   1:10:00 Are interviewees and our guests and so on and so forth. So please take a second there are countless interviews out there that aren't similar to Susan's, but they are different. You will find many, many, many different types of careers, many, many different pursuits of happiness   1:10:17 with all of the diversity that we're talking about today, and different types of advice, and so on and so forth. So please take a second get out there, follow us on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter or LinkedIn or anywhere that you might go. We'd love to have you follow there. And we appreciate you listening today.   1:10:36 Thanks, doctor. Thank you guys. So much.

Sneakers come up often on the episodes of our show. Mike & McD's banter usually ends somewhere around a new pair of Jordan 1's or an anecdote about McD's swelling budget for Nike and Yeezy. This time, the guys get deep with Chris "Chops" La Torre about the industry, all the terms and a few hacks on how to freshen your feet.  Even if you think flashy Adidas are silly or have never even heard of Balenciaga - this episode is worth a listen. For longtime conventioNOT Podcast listeners a new style of episode is coming forward this season... focused on experts in their field. You'll still find the awesome interviews you've come to know and love and now we've bolstered our journalism by bringing experts to focus on subjects that you, our listeners have asked for.  Be sure to subscribe on your podcast channel. 

Join Mike & McD with our guest, Lillian Gray Charles. Lillian established STYLE THERAPY in 2011 as a way to help women remove physical, emotional and mental barriers that keep them from living fully expressed lives. From wardrobe editing, personal shopping and public speaking to energy healing sessions and self-inquiry workshops, Lillian is on earth to help people express themselves. She holds a B.A. in Women's Studies and French from Agnes Scott College, is a lululemon ambassador, a Master Reiki healer and a full-time cheerleader of bad ass women stepping into their power. She has been featured in CNN's Making It In America, Forbes@Women, The Sun News, Jezebel Magazine, VOYAGE ATL and more. Previous audiences include Delta Airlines, General Electric, Knoll Inc, Junior League of Atlanta, Bumble Bizz, Office Images and Mothers of Preschoolers Atlanta Chapter. Brand partnerships include VINCE, Kit & Ace, lululemon, Diane von Furstenberg, Madewell, WeWork, ZENTS and more. 

Cleveland's Deputy Medical Examiner, Todd Barr joins conventioNOT in one of our most exciting episodes yet. Mike and McD get a chance to hear his wild story, ask some really deep questions and even hear some of the really gritty details about the macabre truths in his current job.  His biography is not shy of shocking stories and his activist passion is really showcased on the show while recounting some of the monumental events that led him to his home near Lake Erie. It's such a unique story, with clear stops along the way with Dr Barr explaining the importance of forensic science and even making an open offer to help mentor students who want to learn more.  Our regular listeners know that most of our guests have wild stories. We've heard tales of shark bite, celebrity shockers Dr Barr is our first plane crash survivor... and then there was the time that he was on Phil Donahue and that other time when... you'll need to download to find out. 

The fact is that most conventioNOT listeners could care less what season or episode number it is. The fact is that there are hundreds of happiness through career stories in our archives.  As Mike and McD get more experienced, we find that people like Chris Harris are just too important to the spirit of the show to be one and done interview guests. Chris already shared his biography in Game Ready, which was released in early 2020. Now he's back, speaking on his lifestyle, personal grooming habits and even a little bit about his misguided NBA fanhood.  Being an Ohioan isn't the only fresh perspective that DJ Scrilla brings to the show. Even if he doesn't love the Bad Boy Pistons, we're excited to welcome him as we move forward in this voyage of podcasting. 

Almost all of us know an engineer. They're easy to typecast, right? The pleated khakis, mismatched socks and superior mathematical and analytical skills almost always prevail. conventioNOT's premise is to find the oddballs… those who swim against the stream, are the cream of the crop or any other stereotypical cliches we might utter. Steve Bear isn't any of those things… except an engineer. Starting as an outcast runaway enrolled in a homogenous high-school, he recounts some of the seemingly normal things that could have changed his outcome - including a scary memory after being thrown from a motorcycle in his early 20s. Shortly after his second accident on a motorcycle, Bear's perspective on the way he would spend the rest of his life changed again again, focusing on the future. Many of our interview episodes end up being biographical and Future Proof lives up to the conventioNOT standard - in a slightly different way. Steve recounts a youth in which he refused to conform and used his intelligence to get by. Today when he mentions an early retirement, our listeners are likely to believe him - especially given his track record of proof.

Organ Donation is pretty descriptive. It involves serious medical alignment. In this episode Mike & McD get schooled on the science behind finding matches from Adam Blacker, histocompatibility scientist, about the technology and physical process for Organ Procurement. Way before he started matching DNA at for his current role, Blacker spent plenty of time in a lab paying his dues. His recount of the mentors who affected him and honesty about the advice he takes to heart is really touching.  For our more detail based listeners, Blacker gets specific about procuring tissues, heart valves and even gives a story or two about growing up as a kid near Detroit.