Podcasts about henry thoreau

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

“The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation” (Henry Thoreau).  In this classic episode, Andrew interviews therapist SIMON ROE. Simon has based his life's work on helping men live an authentic life. After himself going through a period of quiet desperation in his mid-thirties, he went on to help men break the silence, find “the song inside” and overcome their experiences of depression, violence and loneliness.  Simon has also worked extensively with boys and their fathers to create rites of passage that help boys claim a strong, authentic sense of their developing manhood. Simon Roe originally trained as a body psychotherapist, and is also a co-leader of the Mandorla Men's Rites of Passage programme. He has worked extensively with perpetrators of domestic violence, and is a Respect approved trainer and supervisor. Simon is also trained in process oriented psychology.  Simon and Andrew also discuss the idea of answering “the call to adventure”, an idea powerfully captured in this poem by Rainer Maria Rilke: Sometimes A Man Stands Up During Supper Sometimes a man stands up during supper and walks outdoors, and keeps on walking, because of a church that stands somewhere in the East.   And his children say blessings on him as if he were dead.   And another man, who remains inside his own house, dies there, inside the dishes and in the glasses, so that his children have to go far out into the world toward that same church , which he forgot. Rainer Maria Rilke ( trans. Robert Bly)   If You're Looking for More…. You can subscribe to The Meaningful Life (via Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Google Podcasts) and hear a bonus mini-episode every week. Or you can join our Supporters Club on Patreon to also access exclusive behind-the-scenes content, fan requests  and the chance to ask Andrew your own questions. Membership starts at just £4.50.  This week supporters will hear: Three Things Simon Roe knows to be true.  AND subscribers also access all of our previous bonus content - a rich trove of insight on love, life and meaning created by Andrew and his interviewees. Follow Up Get Andrew's free guide to difficult conversations with your partner: How to Tell Your Partner Difficult Things  Take a look at Andrew's new online relationship course: My Best Relationship Tools   Attend Andrew's new men's retreat, Reconnect With Yourself, this autumn in the Brandenberg countryside near Berlin.  Visit Simon Roe's website  Learn about the Kingfisher Project, a community dedicated to rites of passage for boys aged 13-16.  Join our Supporters Club to access exclusive behind-the-scenes content, fan requests and the chance to ask Andrew your own questions. Membership starts at just £4.50.  Andrew offers regular advice on love, marriage and finding meaning in your life via his social channels. Follow him on Twitter, Facebook and YouTube @andrewgmarshall 

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

當工作壓得你只想躺平，卻又不得不咬牙繼續時，你是否停下來問過自己：我們與工作的關係到底應該是什麼？在這個提倡「大辭職潮」與遠距工作的時代，我們每天的忙碌究竟是為了什麼？《在工作裡，我們活的有意義》以《湖濱散記》作者亨利‧梭羅（Henry Thoreau）的工作哲學為起點，帶你重新審視工作、生活與人生意義的關係。 本集由《經理人》總編輯齊立文導讀《在工作裡，我們活得有意義》。

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

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Programa 5x64, amb Arnau Tordera. Ens agrada "Walden" i ens agrada la figura d'en Henry Thoreau, un rebel, un lliurepensador que tenia unes idees molt clares: anarquia i desobedi

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

1848 - Henry Thoreau viven entre los bosques y las montañas de Concord, desde donde observa, reflexiona y contesta las cartas que recibe, como las que empezó a recibir ese año de Harrison Blake, un admirador y candidato a aprendiz del autor de La desobediencia civil. Un espacio de Bárbara Espejo.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Dr. Shaalan Beg and Dr. Arjun Gupta discuss the rationale behind treatment breaks and assess the pros and cons based on feedback and data from patients with advanced-stage gastrointestinal cancers. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Shaalan Beg: Hello and welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. I'm Dr. Shaalan Beg, an adjunct associate professor at UT Southwestern's Simmons Comprehensive Cancer Center in Dallas and senior advisor for clinical research at the National Cancer Institute. I'll be your guest host for the podcast today.  On today's episode, we'll be discussing treatment holidays in GI cancers. Treatment holidays, also known as drug holidays, are increasingly being discussed in clinical practice and involve voluntarily halting treatment for a duration determined by a health care provider if believed to be beneficial for a patient's well-being. We'll address the rationale behind treatment holidays and explore their potential risks and benefits. Joining me for this discussion is Dr. Arjun Gupta, a GI medical oncologist and health services researcher at the University of Minnesota. Dr. Gupta's research on treatment-related time toxicity has explored the benefits of taking a break from treatment.  Our full disclosures are available in the transcript of this episode.  Arjun, it's great to have you on the podcast today. Dr. Arjun Gupta: Thanks, Shaalan. It's a joy to be here. Dr. Shaalan Beg: Your research at the intersection of oncology, supportive care, and care delivery is extremely interesting and important in today's day and age. And you've done extensive work on the concept of time toxicity in cancer treatment. So as we think about these discussions in the clinic on treatment holidays and we talk about risks and benefits, I was hoping that you could help explain the concept of time toxicity in cancer treatment and what our listeners should remember from this. Dr. Arjun Gupta: Sure. So time toxicity is simply the time commitments that cancer care imposes on people with cancer and their loved ones, and the burden that comes along with these commitments. When we specifically think about time toxicity associated with a particular cancer treatment, such as chemotherapy, it's the time costs of pursuing, receiving, and recovering from cancer treatment. Now, we have to acknowledge that much of cancer care is essential. We need blood tests to monitor organ function, we need chemo to shrink tumors, and we need a caring oncologist to break bad news. But we have to remember that oncology care is delivered in an imperfect world. Appointments that should take 10 minutes can take 5 hours. People can have uncoordinated appointments, so they're coming to the clinic 3, 4, 5 times a week. And this affects, of course, not only the patient themselves but also their informal care partners and the entire network around them. And this cancer care can completely consume people's lives, leaving no time for rest, recovery, or pursuing joyful activities.  We interviewed patients and care partners in some qualitative work, and this was specifically people with advanced-stage gastrointestinal cancers. And we asked them what cancer care was like, and some of the words will shock you. People said things like, “It's like being on a leash.” “My life is like being on an extended COVID lockdown.” “Cancer is a full-time job.” A very experienced oncologist said, “It's like being on call. You may or not get called into the hospital, but you need to always be available.” And so this concept of time toxicity really applies to all people with cancer, but perhaps most so for people with advanced-stage, incurable cancer, when time is limited and when treatment regimens are perhaps not offering massive survival benefits. And in some cases, the time costs of pursuing the treatment can even overtake the very marginal survival benefit offered by the treatment. Dr. Shaalan Beg: This is particularly relevant for gastrointestinal cancers that, even in the world of advanced cancers, are highly burdensome in terms of their symptoms and the concept of being on call, whether you're a patient or a caregiver, and the burden that it has, I think will resonate with a lot of us, that it's always in the back of our mind on what if X, Y or Z were to happen? In the FOCUS4-N trial, a randomized trial from the UK, investigators assessed whether taking a treatment holiday for maintenance therapy for metastatic colorectal cancer would have a detrimental effect on progression free survival, overall survival, tolerability and toxicity. It looks like the study found that these decisions regarding maintenance therapy should be individualized, but there were not major differences in outcome. Can you comment on this and what applications that has for us in the clinic?  Dr. Arjun Gupta: Sure. But before diving into the FOCUS4-N clinical trial, I just wanted to share a story from the clinic yesterday. It happened in my clinic yesterday, but I'm sure it happens to thousands of patients across the world every single day. So it was the first visit for a patient with stage 4 colon cancer, and they had polymetastatic disease with disease in the lungs and the liver, no actionable biomarkers, and so very likely to be incurable. And so we discussed the usual port and palliative care appointments and chemotherapy backbone, and doing this every 2 weeks, and then doing scans after 4 to 6 doses of chemo to see how the cancer has responded. And then the patient looks up and asks that question, “Okay. So when does this end? When are we done? Do I need to do this forever and the rest of my life?” These are just such innocent and hopeful questions, because the truth is, there is no established end date. But I shared this story that right off the bat, people are looking for breaks. They've not even started chemo, they've not experienced physical or financial or time toxicity, but just psychologically, being on chemo long-term or forever is a very, very hard adjustment.  And so it's in this context that we should look at the FOCUS4-N clinical trial, which was a sub- study of a larger umbrella trial investigating whether continuing on maintenance chemo with oral capecitabine versus taking a treatment break from chemo affected the progression-free survival in people with metastatic colorectal cancer who had disease control after 4 to 6 months of upfront chemotherapy. So they randomized approximately 250 people. These people had largely been treated with FOLFOX or FOLFIRI. Most did not receive a biologic, and approximately half had partial response and half had stable disease. And then they did scans on these patients every two months or so. And the primary endpoint was progression free survival. The median PFS was approximately 4 months in the capecitabine arm and 2 months in the no treatment arm. Of course, as expected, side effects were higher in the capecitabine arm. But impressively, the overall survival was not different between these two arms. So what we're seeing here is that after this period of 4 to 6 months of intensive chemo, if we take a chemo break versus we get some oral chemotherapy, it may affect how quickly the cancer grows on scans, but it maybe does not affect how long patients live.  Now, how do these data apply for an individual patient? Now, these are incredibly nuanced and personal decisions and patients can and should choose what aligns best with their values. In some work done by Dr. Mike Brundage and colleagues in Canada, they asked 100 people with advanced cancer to consider hypothetical scenarios where a new treatment did not increase the overall survival, but potentially increased the progression free survival at the cost of some physical and other toxicities. And then they asked patients if and what PFS thresholds they would accept for this treatment. And around half of patients said no matter how big the PFS is, we do not want to accept the treatment because it causes some toxicity if I'm not going to live longer. Around a quarter of patients said that if the drug elongated progression free survival by three to six months, I would take it, because that's valuable to me even if I don't live longer. But surprisingly, 1 in 6 patients said that they would accept a treatment with no PFS benefit and no overall survival benefit, even at the cost of side effects. And there was a spectrum of reasons for these preferences that they maybe had the battle narrative that “I want to be a fighter, and I don't want to have any regrets,” just showing how complex people's attitudes and values can be. So the point is that continuing on maintenance treatment versus not doing it is not wrong. The point is we often don't even have these data to offer treatment breaks to patients so that they can make decisions that align with their goals.  So I think that's the biggest takeaway from the FOCUS4-N trial for me is that we have some hard data now to guide patients [FOCUS4-N Editorial]. Now, strictly speaking, when I'm talking to a patient about these data, doing oral capecitabine in 3-week cycles may not feel like much. It's perhaps a visit every 3 weeks for blood work and for meeting someone from the oncology team. There are no IV drugs given. If one does well, this might literally be one visit every 3 weeks. But we have to consider that things rarely go as smoothly as we plan them to. For someone living 100 miles away and having diarrhea and needing IV fluids, they may require 3 to 4 clinic visits for labs and monitoring.  In the FOCUS4-N trial, 50% of patients on capecitabine had at least one treatment delay, denoting some toxicity. In a different but similar CAIRO3 clinical trial that tested capecitabine and bevacizumab, 10% of patients had to discontinue treatment due to toxicity. And so it's important to remember that what might seem a simple and low burden to us may be very burdensome to patients. In some work that we've done ourselves [published in The Oncologist], even a single simple appointment to a clinic, such as a lab test, often ends up taking patients hours and hours. So I think it's all of this that we have to consider when we present these data to patients.  Dr. Shaalan Beg: You've talked about the FOCUS4-N trial, you mentioned the CAIRO3 study as well. How do you see this playing in the clinic? Somebody may be looking to attend a child's wedding or a notable birthday or a trip with the family, and you have the data from these trials supporting you. What are the patient factors in terms of their disease factors, patient factors that you think of when you recommend such a treatment break to a patient? Or, let me flip that over. Who would be a patient that you would be uncomfortable offering a treatment break for with metastatic colorectal cancer?  Dr. Arjun Gupta: Yes, I think disease characteristics are a crucial consideration when we consider who we're even offering these treatment breaks to. I think, number one, is the overall disease burden, and if there's any critical visceral disease and how that's responded and how much it's responded to the upfront chemotherapy induction. I think patients where we're worried about having several sites of bulky disease, some that have not responded as well, I think we have to be very, very careful considering complete chemotherapy breaks. In the FOCUS4-N trial, in subgroup analysis, patients who had stable disease tended to not benefit as much from the chemotherapy break, perhaps indicating that it's really people whose disease is responding, who are doing well, who don't have as much disease burden, who may be better served by these treatment breaks. Dr. Shaalan Beg: Fantastic. I think that provides very good direction for our listeners on how they can apply the results of these trials in their clinic.  So we've talked about treatment breaks as a way to give people their time back and to reduce time toxicity. What are other treatment strategies that you have seen deployed to reduce the burden of receiving cancer treatments in general? Dr. Arjun Gupta: You specifically asked about treatment strategies, so I'll start with that before moving to more broad interventions. We actually interviewed patients and care partners to ask them this question, and one of the things that they said was having prospective information from their oncology care team just about what my expected burden was going to be. So I think people recognize that they need oncology care and the clinicians are trying to help them and it's a broken system, but just knowing that 1 in 4 days will be spent with health care contact or not, or you will spend two hours arguing on the phone with a payer, for example, preparing and supporting people for these burdens is very important. There are obviously some alternative treatment schedules. Certain chemotherapies can be given less frequently now. So if you look at cetuximab in GI cancers, for example, when the initial trials were done, it was given every week, but now we more and more use it every two weeks. And it might not seem like much, but it can open up an entire week for a patient when they can think that I don't need to go in this week at all. So these are just some minor adjustments that we can make in the clinic.  But patients often highlight things that may perhaps not be in the direct control of the oncologist, but in the direct control of us as an oncology community. And perhaps the most frequently cited suggestion was having more care coordination and navigation services. So patients really requested more flexibility in the site of care: “Can I come closer to home?'' In the timing of their care, ‘'Can I come in at 2:00 PM after I get childcare instead of coming in at 9:00 AM?” They really requested cluster scheduling or having appointments on the same day, if possible, instead of taking up Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, coming in so many times. And all of this could potentially be achieved by having a designated care coordinator, someone working directly with the patient and their care partner. And then some patients also highlighted the benefits of telemedicine and home-based care, where they were able to be home more.  But we have to also recognize that those things are not universally good and often can increase burdens on the patients and care partners. Also, I wanted to highlight some feedback we received from oncology clinicians. We asked a variety of oncology clinicians, including nurses, APPs, physicians, schedulers, and social workers, what they thought were the causes of patients' time burden. You'll be surprised to hear that when they started talking about patients' time burdens, they slowly started to talk about their own time burdens. And they said, ‘‘We really want to help people, but we're just doing prior authorization and spending hours on the electronic medical record. And please fix my own time toxicity, and I will fix the patients' time toxicity,” which I thought was very profound because I think everybody who goes into medicine goes into it for the right reasons, and we end up not providing perfect care, not because of us, but because of the system. I take this as a very, very positive sign and as a hope for change. Dr. Shaalan Beg: What inspired you to focus on this topic and your research?  Dr. Arjun Gupta: So I personally just hate waiting at the doctor's office. But yes, it's also been wise mentors, including you, Shaalan, during residency and fellowship, who always told me to keep my ear to the ground and listen to patients. And in full disclosure, time toxicity, and what we've done with it recently, it's nothing new. It's been around for decades. And I think our research group has just sort of named it and shamed it, and now more and more people are starting to think about it.   But I can point to two specific instances that I think of. One was when I was starting fellowship in 2018, I read a piece by Dr. Karen Daily in the Journal of Clinical Oncology, where she quoted Henry Thoreau and said, “The price of anything is the amount of life, or time, that you exchange for it.” And it really struck a chord with me, entering the oncology discipline and seeing what people with cancer go through.   And then the second instance is, I remember my granddad, who was perhaps the most formative person in my life. We were very, very close. And when I was about to enter medical school, he was undergoing chemotherapy for lymphoma. The image that's imprinted in my head is of him putting ketchup on gulab jamun. And I can see Shaalan salivating. But for the listeners who may not know, gulab jamun is an Indian sweet made out of milk, flour, sugar, ghee, molded into balls, deep fried and then served in sugar syrup. And my granddad could not taste anything. He could not taste gulab jamun. All he could taste was ketchup. And so he would put ketchup on everything. And at his oncologist visits when I would accompany him, they would discuss the good news about the cancer shrinking and there being a response, and he was happy, but he could just not taste his gulab jamuns. And it made me realize very early on that the tumor is not the only target.  Dr. Shaalan Beg: What a wonderful story. I think those are really hard to measure, quantify, and when patients do bring those stories into the clinic, I think you realize that you have a very special connection with those patients as well, and it does help us as clinicians give personalized advice. So thanks for sharing.  Arjun, thanks for sharing your valuable insights with us on the ASCO Daily News Podcast today. Dr. Arjun Gupta: Thanks so much for having me, Shaalan. Dr. Shaalan Beg: And thank you to our listeners for your time today. You'll find links to the studies discussed today in the transcript of the episode. Finally, if you value the insights that you hear on the podcast, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.   Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.   Find out more about today's speakers:  Dr. Arjun Gupta @guptaarjun90   Dr. Gupta's Research on Time Toxicity: ·      The Time Toxicity of Cancer Treatment, JCO ·      Consuming Patients' Days: Time Spent on Ambulatory Appointments by People With Cancer, The Oncologist ·      Evaluating the Time Toxicity of Cancer Treatment in the CCTG CO.17 Trial, JCO OP ·      Patients' considerations of time toxicity when assessing cancer treatments with marginal benefit, The Oncologist ·      Health Care Contact Days Experienced by Decedents With Advanced GI Cancer, JCO OP ·      Health Care Contact Days Among Older Cancer Survivors, JCO OP Dr. Shaalan Beg    @ShaalanBeg   Follow ASCO on social media:    @ASCO on Twitter   ASCO on Facebook   ASCO on LinkedIn     Disclosures:   Dr. Arjun Gupta: Employment (An Immediate Family Member): Genentech/Roche   Dr. Shaalan Beg:    Consulting or Advisory Role: Ispen, Cancer Commons, Foundation Medicine, Genmab/Seagen    Speakers' Bureau: Sirtex    Research Funding (An Immediate Family Member): ImmuneSensor Therapeutics    Research Funding (Institution): Bristol-Myers Squibb, Tolero Pharmaceuticals, Delfi Diagnostics, Merck, Merck Serono, AstraZeneca/MedImmune

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Unveiling the Past, Unearthing the Future: The Saga of Science with Ann Parson The Not Old Better Show, Inside Science Interview Series Welcome, discerning listeners, birders, and bird watchers, to a new chapter of the Not Old Better Show Science Interview Series on radio and podcast. Today, we journey through the pages of history into the heart of America's scientific awakening with our esteemed guest, science writer, Ann B. Parson, author of "The Birds of Dog." This historical fiction novel, a tapestry woven with threads of fact and fiction, delves into the rich and often overlooked narratives of America's earliest scientific minds and their tussle with nature's untouched wonders. Imagine a time when the clatter of the telegraph and the hiss of steam engines were as novel as smartphones are today. A time when new technologies were hurtling humanity forward, yet paradoxically threatening the very splendors they sought to study. In "The Birds of Dog," Parson brings this vibrant era to life through the eyes of Catharine Pickering, a fictional curator's assistant at the Boston Society of Natural History, and her cousin Charles, a true historical figure and a pioneer of the natural sciences, including amazing letters written in the 1830s! That, of course, is our guest today, science writer Ann Parson, reading from her new book, “The Birds of Dog.” In our conversation today with Ann Parson, we'll explore the pivotal choices behind Parson's shift from nonfiction to the world of historical fiction, allowing her to color within and beyond the lines of history's canvas. We'll discuss the interplay of hunting, the advent of wildlife conservation, and the rise of technologies that both propelled science and imperiled its subjects. But what of the characters that dance across these pages? From John James Audubon to Charles Dickens, Henry Thoreau to John Wilkes Booth's father, Parson stitches these historical giants into the fabric of her narrative, breathing life into the past with her meticulous research and vibrant storytelling. So prepare to be whisked away to a time of curiosity cabinets and scientific marvels, where the world was ripe for discovery and every new finding was a treasure. This is "The Birds of Dog," a story of passion, progress, and the perpetual dance between humanity's reach for knowledge and the natural world's enigmatic beauty. Join us for this expedition through time, where science and story meet, right here on the  Not Old Better Show Science Interview Series on radio and podcast. My thanks to  science writer author Ann B. Parson who's written the new book "The Birds of Dog,"   My thanks to you, our wonderful audience here on radio and podcast.  My thanks to Executive Producer, Sam Heninger.  Please be well, be safe, and Let's Talk About Better™. The Not Old Better Show, Art of Living Interview Series  on radio and podcast. Thanks, everybody, and we'll see you next week.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Um contador de estórias aprende a escutar e depois também contar. Estórias soltas, quebradas pela mudança das estações, pelo nascer, crescer e apurar um colher tal como na vida mágica da sementinha de Alves Redol, chorar, rir e caminhar na senda do nosso viver como nos ensinou Henry Thoreau.

Belén Torregrosa es la tercera invitada a la celebración de los tres años de Latitudes. Ella, que cree profundamente en el poder de la palabra, conversa con nosotros sobre las narrativas y su importancia para enfrentarnos a las páginas en blanco, sobre los lugares a los que llegamos porque la vida así lo quiere, sobre su encuentro con la cabaña en la que Henry Thoreau escribió la obra que le consagró en la literatura universal, sobre la importancia de tomarse el tiempo y confiar en que "sucederá la flor". Ella, que es fundadora de "la vidita" cree, como nosotros, en el valor de lo pequeño. ¡Así que apreciamos el pequeño y valioso gesto de que se unan a esta charla llena de complicidad! #Aniv3rsario #LatitudesPodcast #SomosLatitudes #EncuentrosQueHumanizan #BelénTorregrosa #HenryThoreau

Hello Interactors,After dropping our kids at college, my wife and I spent some time on Cape Cod. She had gone here as a kid for summer family vacations to enjoy the sand and salty air, and she wasn't alone. Now people come from all over the world to visit this soggy, sandy, stretch of land surrounded by sea. But it's capacity is being tested, cresting waves are gobbling the coast, as warming water turns sea life into ghosts. It's survived this long, but how long can it carry on?ON SCARGO PONDSituated beneath Scargo Hill, the highest point on Cape Cod, is a pond most people call Scargo Lake. With permission from a lakeside homeowner, my wife and I recently descended its bank through the brush and bramble to swim in the calm, warm water. The stairs are supported by partially submerged glacial rocks deposited around 14,000 years ago. The pond itself is one of hundreds of kettle ponds, giant divots formed by the glacier. After coming to its final resting spot at the edge of what was to be called the Atlantic Ocean, the mountain of ice melted leaving a sandy, spongey cape dimpled with ponds of melted glacier water. The runoff from Scargo Hill now feeds this pond as it makes its eventual journey back into the sky or salty sea.  One of the rocks deposited near the stairs is the size of a Volkswagon Beetle. Its permanence stands in stark contrast to the drifting fine sand of the famed Cape Cod beaches. No amount of rainfall will budge this boulder, but recent ravenous runoff has reshaped this ravine of late. Another reminder, along with the shifting sands, that despite illusions of permanence earth's natural forces are unyielding.Cape Cod is dripping with illusions of permanence. The man who built these stairs was a friend and colleague of my father-in-law. His name was Rudy. He was an esoteric retired dentist, who in retirement, took his proclivity for tinkering with teeth – a profession hellbent on slowing inevitable decay – to nurture nostalgia's permanence. His basement was like a touristy roadside attraction with a replica of a small 1950s diner booth, walls adorned with posters and pictures of the past, coin operated amusement park gadgets from the early 20th century, and a favorite of mine – a player piano.Rudy liked to spool up his appropriately favorite song, the 1957 pop hit song Old Cape Cod. Rudy would sing along with these opening lyrics:If you're fond of sand dunes and salty airQuaint little villages here and thereYou're sure to fall in love with Old Cape CodThe song was written by a Boston-area housewife who, like Rudy, was so fond of vacationing on the cape. New England tourism, including Cape Cod, was just getting underway in the 1950s. A 1953 article in the publication Economic Geography reports, “To many New England communities, the past few decades have been a time of economic readjustment and expansion…This current reversal of trend is largely the result of New England's growing tourist industry, the income from which in 1951 amounted to $957,000,000.” That would be over ten billion dollars today.Recent analysis from the National Park Service reports over 300 million visitors streamed through Cape in 2022 resulting in $23 billion dollars of direct spending. Clearly a lot of people are fond of sand dunes and salty air, quaint little villages here and there, as more and more people fall in love with old Cape Cod.Not everyone thought Cape Cod would be a tourist destination. One hundred years before the cape's 1950s popularity, Henry Thoreau wrote in his book, Cape Cod, “The time must come when this coast will be a place of resort for those New-Englanders who really wish to visit the sea-side. At present it is wholly unknown to the fashionable world, and probably it will never be agreeable to them…Such beaches as are fashionable are here made and unmade in a day, I may almost say, by the sea shifting its sands.”Thoreau was visiting the Cape at a time when the allusivity of shifting sands posed a real threat to Cape Cod tourists and residents. After chatting with the lighthouse keeper of The Highland Light, the eastern most U.S. lighthouse and the first to greet sailors venturing from Europe to Boston, Thoreau believed even this beacon of permeance was threatened. He writes,“According to the light-house keeper, the Cape is wasting here on both sides, though most on the eastern. In some places it had lost many rods within the last year, and, erelong, the light-house must be moved. We calculated, from his data, how soon the Cape would be quite worn away at this point, ‘for,' said he, ‘I can remember sixty years back.'”Thoreau surmised the lighthouse keeper would likely outlive the lighthouse. While it indeed was moved a short distance and rebuilt, it remains today as one of many Cape Cod tourist attractions. It's not just the lighthouse that's been preserved all these years, but the very grounds that surround it.SAND DOOMSOne hundred years before Thoreau's visit, the harbor just north of the Highland Lighthouse, East Harbor, – at the narrowest segment of the cape – was erased. Tides from a powerful storm had sucked the eastern sands to sea breaching the harbor and severing the narrow, but contiguous, land mass in two. Provincetown, at the tip of the cape, was stranded on a newly formed island.Alarmed by this development, the federal government rushed to plant sea grass and install fencing to build sand dunes and fill the gap. As part of the restoration program residents were encouraged, and threatened by law, to plant beach grass every spring. Within a few years expansive dunes began to form.Over the proceeding decades and well into the 1800s of Thoreau's visit, the practice of planting grass and installing fences had created another problem. The dunes had grown so extensive that the East Harbor was filling in with sand. In 1826, the state government issued a study that determined the dunes had extended more than four miles. This prompted the government to encourage more grass planting to block the spreading sand.As Thoreau wrote, “I was told that about thirty thousand dollars ($1,000,000 today) in all had been appropriated to this object, though it was complained that a great part of it was spent foolishly, as the public money is wont to be. Some say that while the government is planting beach-grass behind the town for the protection of the harbor, the inhabitants are rolling the sand into the harbor in wheelbarrows, in order to make house-lots...Thus Cape Cod is anchored to the heavens, as it were, by a myriad little cables of beach-grass, and, if they should fail, would become a total wreck, and erelong go to the bottom.”Beach grass planting is what has kept Cape Cod from becoming a total wreck and the beaches intact. But that 1826 report also noted that it was the removal of trees and shrubs that compounded the spread of sand in the first place. It was European settlers wrecking East Harbor in the eighteenth century by cutting down trees, letting the wind blow the sand away, resulting in the East Harbor being breached by the sea due to too little sand. And then, a century later, more settlers were wrecking East Harbor with too much sand through the planting of beach grass – destining it to be a vast sand dune.Today East Harbor is hemmed in on the west by a highway atop a dike and sand dunes to the east still protected by sea grass. The highway was part of a reclamation project completed in 1868, just three years after Thoreau was there. This thin band of highway atop decades of accumulated sand and sod has turned the harbor into what some call Pilgrim Lake.Since 1868 this body of water has gone from a salty marine environment into a manmade freshwater pond with a host of environmental problems. The stagnant water caused massive sand fly outbreaks, the proliferation of non-native plants, and large-scale fish kills. In 2001 one such kill prompted the installation of a 700 foot long, four-foot diameter culvert equipped with a valve for one-way drainage of stagnant water to the sea. After a year of little progress, authorities decided to keep the valve open to let salty tide water back into the harbor. By 2005 the invasive carp and cat-tail populations had declined, shellfish, sticklebacks, silversides, and sea squirts returned, and the water turned clear again.Tourists have also bloomed to nuisance levels on Cape Cod. They're drawn to sand dunes and salty air with quaint little villages here and there. My father-in-law's friend, Rudy, wasn't the only one intent on preserving the past. Much effort, with private and government money, has gone into preserving a certain historic cultural and environmental ideal of Cape Cod rooted in a colonial past. Out of Boston you pass Plymouth rock on Pilgrim Highway all the way to Pilgrim Lake. One of the roads I run down on the cape is called Whig, the nineteenth century conservative political party.There is a lot of talk of conservation, preservation, and recreation on Cape Cod, but not so much about reservations. Even though the state is named after the Massachusett people. The Wampanoag people have lived in and around what is now Cape Cod since soon after that glacier melted. And they're still there. One tribe resides on an island once connected to the mainland called Martha's Vineyard. The other is on Cape Cod in Mashpee where nearly three thousand Mashpee Wampanoag are enrolled in the tribe. Mashpee is an anglicized word for Mâseepee: mâs means "large" and upee means "water" referring to the largest lake on Cape Cod – Mashpee Pond – where they were forced to settle by colonizers.For the native humans to thrive in the harsh conditions the cape for nearly ten thousand years required a way of living that worked with or mimicked nature. You'd think the ‘enlightened' European colonizers would have recognized this. Surely some did, especially in the beginning, but clearly, we're still learning.THE SHIFTING SANDSMy wife and I saw a significant reshaping of one beach we have frequented over the years. Waves had clearly taken a bigger bite than usual. To remediate and maintain the beach for tourists, the city had imported a swath of sand to supplant the loss. But it wasn't the fine white sand that makes Cape Cod beaches so attractive, it was the brownish, dirty, gritty sand used to make concrete.It seemed a desperate and uncertain attempt at holding on to the allusive certainty of the past – a temporary patch covering the truth in a nostalgic myth of sand dunes and salty air. It's a story that props up quaint little villages here and there. Should the truth be known of the impermanence of the cape, people may stop falling in love with old Cape Cod.I couldn't help noting the conflicting and contrasting nature of Cape Cod. Like the beach grass planted to preserve their primary tourist attraction – beaches – from the effects of wind, only to be thwarted by a rising and increasingly hostile sea. Or the Cape Cod Museum of Natural History's display on the Wampanoag people portrayed as a distant past even though they thrive today. And the quaint neighborhood road signs that occasionally read Thickly Settled amidst a cape that itself has become thickly settled.The tourism industry props up a nostalgic illusory image of a past that reaches just far enough back in time to perpetuate the story of colonial control, but not so far as to recognize a more native coexistent past. It's part of a coordinated effort, buoyed by private and public dollars, to futilely maintain the physical geography of a sea-bound land mass largely made of sand and marsh. And for the most part, it's all done for the tourism industry.I can't help but see it as a snake eating its own tail. The commodification of nature that is being destroyed by commodification. The increased commercialization of “local” only serves to increase property prices thus pushing out locals. Overcrowded tourism degrades the tourism experience. And a depleting of the very resources on which they depend, like water. And it's all occurring amidst a changing climate.In recent years Cape Cod has experienced levels of coastal hypoxia not recorded prior to 2017. Coastal hypoxia, or "dead zones," involves a decrease in oxygen levels in coastal waters. Most evidence points to the cause being – surprise – human-induced factors such as nutrient pollution from freshwater runoff and wastewater discharge.In the last few summers, the bottom waters in Cape Cod Bay have suffered from low oxygen levels, which is unusual. Factors like warmer water, layering of water temperatures, and altered wind patterns are creating an environment prone to low oxygen near the seabed. These climate shifts are seriously affecting the types of plants and animals in and around Cape Cod. My wife and I would not have been swimming Scargo Lake last summer due to an outbreak of a harmful bacteria.Cape Cod, like most of the colonized world, is a victim of cultural and environmental disruption. The influx of tourists since the mid twentieth century, like the influx of European colonizers centuries before, have disrupted the lifestyles and cultures of the very local communities they sought to enjoy. Instead, locals, like the Wampanoag before them, have been exploited and expunged leaving Cape Cod enshrined in a commercial haze of cultural hypoxia and an influx of mono-cultural human species. And it's all surrounded by a coastal dead zone, an increasingly angry sea, shifting and volatile wind, and an uncertain future.I can see centuries of colonial behavior more like an invasive species. We've been introduced to new habitats where we didn't historically exist, and we have disrupted native ecosystems. We grow our populations rapidly and seek to outcompete native species, natural resources, and ecosystems. Like invasive species we exploit and deplete local resources, alter food chains, and ecosystem dynamics. It's all led to the transformation of landscapes and widespread habitat alteration.But we humans, as native populations demonstrate, have unique capacities for complex decision-making, culture, and technology, which can be harnessed for both positive and negative impacts on ecosystems. Moreover, humans have the capacity to recognize and mitigate their impacts, making conscious efforts toward conservation and sustainability. And indeed, the ongoing restoration of East Harbor shows how possible this can be.But to do this on a global scale requires us to not think of ourselves or the past as a stationary rock deposited by a glacier, but as a grain of sand at the beach. Grains of sand, when combined, give rise to complex emergent phenomenon like dunes and beaches. These emergent structures are not present in individual grains but emerge from their interactions with others and their co-arrangement.Let's grow even fonder of the sand dunes and salty air. If we want to maintain quaint little villages here and there, embrace uncertainty and reject despair. Let's fall in love with the cape as the Wampanoag did, not the allusive nostalgic one experienced as a kid.ReferencesThe Impact of Tourism on the Economy of Cape Cod, Massachusetts. Lewis M. Alexander. Economic Geography. 1953.Tourism to Cape Cod National Seashore contributes $750 million to local economy. U.S. National Park Service. 2023.Thoreau, Henry David. Cape Cod. Neeland Media LLC. Kindle Edition.Unprecedented summer hypoxia in southern Cape Cod Bay: an ecological response to regional climate change? Scully, et al. Biogeosciences. 2022. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit interplace.io

The series has a bit of a stumble this episode, with the combined introduction of Juggernaut and Colossus being too much for it to carry. Dan is excited by Henry Thoreau references and Javier explains how Wolverine's claws work. Support the showMeet Dan on the internet and find out where to see him perform live Newsletter Book Sleepytime Mumbles - a sleep-aid podcast Perfuct Storm - A live show Standup in Hell FB Meet Javier on the internet and find out where to see him perform live Twitter Instagram Twitch FB

Guest: Laura Dassow Walls is the William P. and Hazel B. White Professor of English at the University of Notre Dame. She is the author of Henry David Thoreau: A Life, and her latest, The Daily Henry David Thoreau: A Year of Quotes from the Man Who Lived in Season.   Feature image: Benjamin D. Maxham- Thoreau -Restored on Wikipedia The post KPFA Special – David Henry Thoreau: the Man Who Lived in Season appeared first on KPFA.

Richard Smith is an independent public historian who has lectured on and written about antebellum United States history, Transcendentalism, and 19th-century American literature since 1995. He has worked in Concord as a public historian and Living History Interpreter since 1999 and has portrayed Henry Thoreau at Walden Pond and around the country. Richard has written six books for Applewood Books and is the former Scholar in Residence at Longfellow's Wayside Inn in Sudbury and was recently involved in the research and creation of the new Native American exhibit in The Sudbury Historical Society.

A little owl! Found in the Eastern United States! But does he screech? No. Alright, we almost got the name right. Join us in your favorite podcast released every FORTNIGHT.   Where are Eastern Screeches found? What does Henry Thoreau have to say about this? Will I be able to spot a screech when I hear it? Has anyone ever thrown one at a tree before? Tune in to find out. 

Today we're talking about sex and technology. The world's relationship with technology is complex and ever-changing. Dating apps, the pill, and digital mass porn, to name only a few, are technological innovations that have radically impacted our sexual lives and how we relate to each other. Technological innovations often inspire fear. Socrates worried about writing replacing oral culture. The hunter-gatherers probably moaned about the advent of agriculture. But who's to say they weren't right to moan?In the 1850s, during the Industrial Revolution, transcendentalists warned how the advent of a mechanistic and technological age could impact humanity. Henry Thoreau wrote during the industrial revolution: “Our inventions are often an improved means to an unimproved end.” However ingenious an invention may seem, it will likely have unintended side effects and even shape who we are as people, in ways that are not always obvious or positive. At the same time, technology has also greatly enhanced our freedoms and choices for our bodies. It's given us the ability to have more orgasms, to have children, to not have children, and to connect outside our usual social circles. Increasingly, it's assisting in improving how we educate people about sexuality and creating new ways of managing sexual assault prevention and reporting.So, in light of this, how should we develop technologies that relate to human sexuality and intimacy? What social problems can be solved using technology? Why do technological solutions so often feel like a bandaid for deeper issues? The challenges surrounding technology are often explored in black and white. This week Caroline has asked Bryony Cole to help analyse the grey areas. Bryony Cole is the founder and host of the Future of Sex podcast, where she explores the intersection between sex and tech. Since the podcast's success over the last seven years, she's founded Sextech School, a program helping new sextech businesses commercialise. From interviewing owners of sex dolls to running sex tech hackathons, Bryony has been deeply involved in the sex tech industry since the early realisation of its potential value. She is a wealth of knowledge on how the relationship between technology and sex has developed, and how it continues to do so. Resources:Check out Bryony's work here. Listen to The Future of Sex Podcast here.Connect with us:@becuming.meBecuming takes the frustration out of finding the perfect sex toy by sending you personalised recommendations. Check it out at www.becuming.me. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Yucca's Science TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@space_stem Atheopagan TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@atheopagan   Remember, we welcome comments, questions and suggested topics at thewonderpodcastQs@gmail.com   S3E13 TRANSCRIPT:----more---- Yucca: Welcome back to the wonder science-based paganism. I'm your host Yucca. And this week we are talking about probably I'd say my favorite topic. It is almost Yuri's night. So we're going to be doing an episode on. Space exploration, nature, all of that Mark: Yeah, very exciting. There's a lot going on right now. And of course, space is a fascinating place that tells us a lot about the nature of the universe and about. The nature of our planet, Yucca: and ourselves. Yeah. So, so I think a good place to start would actually be talking about. You are his night is, and, and why it could be a really special thing for pagans. Mark: And this is something that we would probably know a lot more about if it wasn't for the cold war between the Soviet union and the United States that lasted from the end of world war two through 1990 because the first human ever to enter space was. he was actually he wasn't rushing. I think he was Georgian. He was a cosmic, not who went up in the Soviet program and succeed successfully orbited the earth on on the first attempt, which is amazing. The American program tried several times to get someone into orbit and did not succeed for a while. But in 1957, Yuri Gagarin went up into space And orbited the earth and Yucca: And safely returned.  Mark: Safely returned to earth and you know, setting setting a reasonably high bar for that kind of enterprise from the very beginning. And so Yuri's east night is the 12th of April, which is the anniversary of that orbiting of the earth.  Yucca: Yeah.  Mark: if you're Russian, you know, that. Because you learn this in school. It's a, it's a really big deal. If you're a scientist, you also probably know it because science, museums and technology, museums, and observatories all very commonly have. Open houses or parties or other kinds of celebrations on Yuri's night as kind of a celebration of space exploration And all things. Space science. Yucca: And it's something that is now is international, right? So it did, you know, did start in Russia. But it's something that people of every nation all over the world who just are appreciative of. Of the exploration and the knowledge and achievements and all things nerdy to find a lot of overlap with you know, with some of the fandoms and that celebration. Mark: Right. And we should be clear that while the, the exploration of space in the late fifties and early 1960s was pretty much the purview of white men. And that was true of both the Soviet program and the American program. But now you have scientists from all over the world, working on space exploration. You've got the European space agency sending rockets into space and sending probes, packages of instruments out into space. China has developed its own space program. So, and they're assigned. That have been trained from everywhere in the world that have gone to university become astrophysicists or other pertinent scientists, and then have gotten involved with space programs. So this really is a humanity scale effort.  Yucca: Right. And I think that, that even when it was. Several of the large superpowers. There has often been a sense of space exploration as being an achievement of humankind. Right? So w when Apollo 11 happened, people all over the world were saying, we did it. Right. There was, of course there was a lot of, you know, American pride around that, but you know, the folks in Spain and in South Africa and all over there's, this is something that is about humans and humans reaching out and exploring. Yeah. And I really appreciate you pointing out that it's not just about white dudes now, right? Even being able to explore space as astronauts, but the people on the ground working in the space fields were incredibly diverse.  And so, yeah. Mark: And even back in the 1960s, when the only people who were allowed to be astronauts were white men in the United States. It's important for us to point out that at that time, because computers were so primitive calculations for those moonshots were done by hand and they were done by hand mostly by black. And it's, you know, they they're, they're unsung heroes. They don't get the credit that they should for their role in the, the attainment of humans reaching the moon. There's a very famous picture of one of these women that I wish I could remember her name, but I don't standing next to. A printout of the calculations that she had done for the Apollo missions. and it was taller than she was  Yucca: yeah. Mark: it's this gigantic stack of paper. And of course, all of those calculations had to be correct. And they had to work properly with the computer equipment that the. That the astronauts took with them. So I mean that, it's, it's, it's a mind-boggling achievement when you think about it. And I just want to make sure that we you know, we provide a shout out to those folks as well.  Yucca: Yeah. And, and even before we got to the era of actually sending people and things into space actually the original term computer did not refer to a machine. It referred to two people doing the competent computations and those usually were women. So the computers and so. You know, we've had a long history of Benning being involved and there's all kinds of wonderful science heroes that you can look at that, you know, had to fight their way to get to be at universities and get their names recognized and, and all of that. So we're, we're, we're not all the way there yet, but it's a lot, it's a lot better than it was, you know? So,  Mark: right.  Yucca: But. This is this holiday that we're talking about is a celebration of all of those achievements that have been made by, by everybody. And also just delighting in the incredible things that we're learning. It's really a celebration of, of knowledge and science. Mark: And, and of that. Inquisitive imaginative spirit, that humanity, hats we are, we're curious, little monkeys. We, you know, we wanna, we wanna know how it works and we want to figure it out and take it apart and, you know, understand things. And that impulse in us has led us. Far beyond the solar system with the Voyager missions. And  Yucca: to the edge of the heliosphere  Mark: yes, to the heliosphere. Right. And. Has taught us many, many amazing things about our solar system, just in my lifetime. I mean, the impression that we got about the solar system when I was a kid and I was really into space when I was a kid, because the Apollo missions were going on.  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: so I was getting up early in the morning with my family to watch the Apollo missions launch.  Yucca: Oh, how  Mark: And I, and I remember, you know, the Apollo 11 walking on the moon. It's, it was very, very cool. stuff going on then, but still our impression of the solar system at that time was mostly Moonlight lifeless rocks revolving around these planets that we didn't know very much about. And now of course, you know, we've got Enceladus and Titan and EO and you know, all these, all these amazing, really strange and interesting moons of of the planets that we've, we've discovered much more about and taking pictures of and You know, in some cases have actually, you know, done atmospheric dives to get some samples of atmosphere. It's, it's just,  Yucca: We have.  Mark: incredible. What's happened.  Yucca: Class of planets that turns out as are the dominant class in our, in our solar system. And we didn't even, I mean, we had some hints that, you know, series and Pluto's existed, but we didn't know about all those other ones. You know how Mia and Maki Maki and all of those just amazing other objects. Yeah. Or the solar wind or well now leaving even our solar system, talking about things like exoplanets and other, which by the way, a big achievement, we just crossed over 5,000 confirmed exoplanets that we know of. Yeah. So, I mean, we suspect that within our galaxy alone, there are literally trillions of planets, but we can't confirm that yet. Right. We, it actually takes quite a bit of time to look at a star and determine whether that star has planets and it's only, we can only see a certain there's a threshold that we can't see. Underneath. So we can, we're really good at finding really big, massive close planets, but not so good at finding little low mass and faraway planets. So we've been only working on this for a few decades and we went from, from scientists thinking it would probably never, we'd never be able to see a planet around another star to knowing a thousands of. Mark: Yes. And that brings us to the big news of the past year or so when it comes to space exploration, which is the James Webb infrared telescope which. Successfully launched successfully unfolded itself in 350 discrete steps successfully calibrated and is now ready to start doing science.  Yucca: Yeah, we're getting  Mark: of, and one of its primary objectives is the identification of exoplanets.  Yucca: Yeah. Well not, it's not for finding the exoplanets primarily it's for studying those that exist that we can't, that we can find them through other techniques. Right. So transit photometry or radio philosophy. I was basically looking for when the planet passes in front of the star, does it dip in brightness? And the other one is looking for the red shift when the planet is pulling on its star. So we know that there are stars there, but usually seeing them with the other telescopes that we have are very difficult because they get lost in the glare of their star. We're trying to look at it in visible light, but in infrared light, it's much easier to see that. And. Get a lot more details. We can also do some spectroscopy with infrared that can give us clues to what kinds of materials are in those atmospheres. And that allows us to look for certain certain types of chemicals that we would only associate with life. So those would be our, our biosignatures basically that we can look for. And of course we're interested in other planets, not just for the possibility of finding life, but that's one that a lot of people are interested in. Are there other people out there,  Mark: right? right.  Yucca: is there other life, but we're also interested. Are there other civilizations? Mark: Yeah. And there are some compounds that are actually pretty rare in, in as far as we can tell. They're, they're pretty rare in the universe except when they're assembled by life. So we can look for those. I mean, you know, we look for methane. We look for ammonia  Yucca: Well, those ones are ones that have a lot of, of a biotic, but first for instance, foster things. So that was what the whole excitement with Venus I guess a year or two ago at this point it turned out that that was probably measurement error, but we were really excited that look, there are these phosphenes and yes, there may be some ways to make them a biotically so not life, but here on earth. The vast majority of it is made as actually by microbial processes. So when we were finding or thought we were finding it in the Venetian atmosphere, How, how is this possible? We don't know of any way that this could geologically be produced in these amounts. Again, unfortunately it turned out that that probably wasn't the case, and that happens a lot in science though. That's part of the process, right? One team put this forward, said, look what we found. And then the other teams looked at it and went, Hmm, well, actually we see some problems in your methodology here. No dark. That doesn't mean that there isn't life there, but that particular clue. It might not be a valid clue,  Mark: Yeah, it's it's there it's questionable data, so it doesn't necessarily tell us anything. But this is the value of peer review, right? You know, when you have peer review by experts, then you get data. That's more likely to be true. And. You know, this is something that we go back to in naturalistic or science-based paganism and atheopagan ism all the time. Using the scientific method gives us a better sense of whether or not something is likely to be true. And that's a very, it's a, a markedly different approach to knowledge than the experiential approach to knowledge that much of the pagan community tends to rely on. But. It's also one that we can have higher confidence in our, our perceptual systems are so subject to error and glitch. And this is very well-documented. So, just putting in a quick plug for critical thinking and the scientific method you know, these are, these are important concepts for us as science-based pagans.  Yucca: Right. And, and even if we aren't doing science, isn't not being professional scientists in our little. I think for everybody it's really important. So Mark: because we are bombarded with information now and a lot of. It's nonsense a lot. A lot of it is logically fallacious advertising. That's supposed to make you feel bad until you buy a product or associate something really wonderful with, with buying a product or a service.  Yucca: Or just to get your views so that it gets advertising money,  Mark: right.  Yucca: right.  Just make it sensational enough that you engage with it. Mark: Yeah. And if it. confirms your biases or angers you, then you're more likely to be riled up by it and therefore to pay more attention to it. And these techniques are well understood and they are used by Google and Facebook and all those various  Yucca: now. It's not. Yeah, those are the big guys, but, but it's happening all over the  Mark: It's everybody. Exactly. And so our capacity for parsing, what's likely to be true from what's likely what's less likely to be true, becomes a survival skill in this time. If we want to be people whose relationship with reality is grounded in credible data.  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: So that's, that's one reason why all of this is very much of interest to science-based pagans, but I was going to ask the other question, which is why is all this space stuff? Pagan.  Yucca: Yeah. Well, I do, I do want to circle back around and just to the James Webb before we go there. Cause  Mark: Oh, good  Yucca: question, but we, we mentioned one tiny thing about the James Webb. I mean, it's huge, but it's only one tiny part of, of the mission. And if I could just run for a second with this,  Mark: Sure.  Yucca: there's a lot of excitement about the James Webb. But it's not always explained like why it's such a big deal and one, it is yes. The largest telescope that we've ever actually launched and put into space. And with telescopes, the bigger the mirror, basically the more resolution you get, the better you can see. So it's kind of a joke, but bigger really is better. Right. But it's also infinitely. And light. When we think about light, we're thinking about visible light most of the time, which is the type of light that our eyes are sensitive to, but humans actually only see a tiny part of the spectrum of light and there's way more colors. So. Different wavelengths correspond with different colors. And we can go all the way to gamma rays down to radio. Radio is actually a form of light, but infrared is a form of light that is a little bit redder than red, right? Infrared below red. And it sees. I think it can see through certain materials, right? Certain kinds of light, light, visible light goes through the glass and your window just fine. But doesn't go through say the wall x-rays, which is light goes through your skin, but not through your bones. Well, infrared's really good at seeing through things like dust, but it's also going to be very useful to us because the farther. Way that you look with a telescope the further back in time, you're looking because light isn't instantaneous, it actually travels at a finite. To us on earth. It feels instantaneous because these distances are so short, but something like the sun is eight light minutes away. It takes light eight minutes to get to us. So if we look at something that's a thousand light years away that took a thousand years for that light to get to. But what we think is happening with the universe is that as time goes on, we believe that the universe is actually expanding. So as light travels through the expanding universe, it's getting stretched out. And so this is stretching those wavelengths, redder and redder and redder, and some of the early. From the only a few hundred million years after the, the big bang has been stretched so far into red, that it's passed out of visible light. So we can't see it with a telescope like the Hubble, because the Hubble doesn't see an infrared it Susan visible and a little into ultraviolet. So this telescope will let us see. With light. See these earliest time periods that we've never been able to see before. So we should be able to see galaxies at the earliest stages of formation. We should be able to look and see, you know, are quasi stars real? How do they form? Can we see the first population of stars? So it's opening up a whole. It's not even like a new chapter, but it's a whole new book. In our understanding of the universe. And it's probably going to throw a wrench into so many of our different accepted theories. They were like, oh, that doesn't make sense. The data doesn't support that and all kinds of new things. So in addition to studying the nearby things like exoplanets, we're going to be able to see the distant past in a way that we have only ever dreamed of being able to. So that's why I just want to put that plug into like how amazing of a, of an edge of a frontier that we're standing on right now with, with science, with space lines. Mark: Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you for that. And it should, it also bears saying that. Younger phenomena emit ultraviolet light as well. So we'll be able to see phenomena in the, in the, the, in the infrared. spectrum as well.  Yucca: That's right? Mark: you know, we'll be able to look at stuff that's newer and capture images, which can then be false colored and differentiated into different wavelengths. So there will, there will be some very dramatic images from the James Webb. I'm sure.  Yucca: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Mark: so, you know, we've all been so wowed by the Hubble. I think we can expect, you know, literal order of magnitude 10 times.  Yucca: More, so, yeah. Mark: More so, with these images from the James Webb. So it's, it's a very exciting time and the calibration just happened in the last couple of months. So we're only we're, we're just starting to crack the book.  Yucca: Yeah.  Mark: a little.  Yucca: Hopefully early summer is when we should start getting some science returned for, from it that's if everything seems to be going on track. So, you know, it's we're right there. Mark: And there. were so many things that could have gone wrong.  Yucca: yeah. Mark: I mean, there were so many things that could've gone wrong. This, this project was first envisioned what? 19 86, 89. Okay. And  Yucca: So the year, the wall came down  Mark: yeah.  Yucca: back to what we were starting with,  right? Yeah.  Mark: you know, when the, when the Soviet union collapsed and the cold war was over  Yucca: was several years before Hubble launched.  Mark: right,  Yucca: Yeah. And it, and it went through a lot of different changes over the years. The initial launch dates, I mean, what were those supposed to be back in the early teens? 2012 or something  Mark: Yeah.  Yucca: yeah, but unlike the huddle, it's not in low earth orbit. The Hubble is in Leo so that we actually were able to go and make repairs when those needed to happen. The James Webb is in a, in a special orbital kind of island where it's actually orbiting the sun, but matching the matching Earth's orbit called L two. And that's, we're talking roughly four times the distance from the earth and the moon. So  Mark: It's about a million. It's about a million miles away, a little short of that.  Yucca: Yeah. So something goes wrong with that. We're not going out to fix it. Humans have never actually been beyond the moon. Right. I don't think we really. The capability of launching people there at this point. So everything had to be absolutely perfect. And it was this huge international effort, right? It was, I guess, primarily a NASA project, but there was ISA involved in the Canadian space agency. I think it was Jackson involved as well, but there were a lot of agencies that were in this.  Mark: Honestly, I don't remember.  Yucca: Yeah. I think the UK space agency was as well.  Mark: yes.  Yucca: So yeah. Mark: So it's very exciting and it's going to continue to be exciting. And now I'm going to loop back around to why is this exciting for pagans?  Yucca: Right. Mark: And my answer to that, my really short answer is that as we have alluded to so many times and. Specified articulated on this podcast, paying attention is so important to our paganism, you know, understanding the world of nature around us. And even though we can't see it except at night because our atmosphere scatters the blue light and puts this sort of shell over the top of us, we're in space.  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: We're we're, we're interacting with space stuff is raining down on the earth from space all the time. Radiation is coming into to the earth from space and,  Yucca: Well, the things that were made from wood stellar processes, right? Stars had to form the heavier elements and supernovae, a neutron star collision and all of those things just to make the literal earth and in our bodies, which are just extensions of the earth. Mark: So there's, there's the wow factor of that. The sheer wonder of it, the all at the fact that all of this is connected, it's all interacting and it's all expanding and evolving as it has from the moment of the big bang. But beyond that, I think there's something about the human project. That makes this an interest to pagans. And this may be tough for some folks because you know that the romantic conceptualization of nature in Western culture, wasn't really a very good framing of, of reality.  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: Because there was this idea that there was nature and then there was humanity and you sort of had to vote with your feet if you were So, or you were Henry Walden, the I'm sorry, Henry Thoreau. Then you, you voted for nature and rejected humanity. And if you were, you know, someone who is. You know, involved with governance and culture and those kinds of things, then you, you voted with humanity.  Yucca: False dichotomy set up there. Mark: Yeah. it really is because we're. Yucca: Yeah. Mark: What we're doing is natural. Everything that we do, everything we've made, even the artificial chemicals that we've created that do not exist. Otherwise in nature, they're still natural because they follow the laws of physics.  Yucca: Right. You wouldn't call formic acid, not natural because ants made it.  Mark: Right.  Yucca: So the things that humans make, those are natural to. Mark: Yeah. Now that's not to say that humans aren't well out of balance with the biotic systems of the earth we are. But framing this as a war or a battle or a competition, and then picking a side is both grossly oversimplified and. Not a very helpful way of framing  Yucca: It's not useful. Yeah.  Mark: it It's it's it's no, it doesn't really.  Yucca: us up for failure, right? Because you're never going to like natural processes will never quote unquote win against that. Right. So if you set up your wind condition as having defeated natural processes, you can't, you will never win. Mark: Right. Right. So while Yucca and I are. Big environmentalists and have both worked professionally in the conservation fields, you know, both at a public policy level and in the Restoration. context, the implementation on the ground I think I can speak for both of us. When I say we feel very strongly that the human project is of interest to pagans and you know, the success of humans who are these remarkable beings, each of which carries around one of the most complex, interesting and mysterious phenomena we are aware of in the universe, which is a human brain. Is is something that's relevant to pagans. Not only because we want to grow ourselves and live the fullest lives, we can and build the deepest relationships we can with those that we love. But also because humanity itself has a value and we, we can hope for some level of success. For humanity. And one aspect of that success is in scratching that curious, itch, you know, learning the things that we are so curious about. And we've, we, we stumbled over time on to a really fantastic method for, for learning those things. It's not a perfect. Nothing humans create is perfect.  Yucca: Right. Mark: But it's a very good method. And the peer reviewed scientific process is a very good method for learning even very complex things.  Yucca: Yeah. Let me think about all the things that. The very complex and complicated things that we know about those have been learned through science, right? Being able to do things like send people to the moon or B have a little remote control Rover, not actually very level, it's pretty big on another planet. Right. And all of these things or going to the bottom of our ocean. Right. Exploring the hydrothermal vents or flying or any of these things. It's because we did science to do it. And that's a self-correcting process.  Mark: Yes. Yes  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: and no. When we first did it, we didn't do it very well. You know, the Wright brothers were up for what 120 seconds I think was, was the figure. Yucca: I don't remember what it was, but it was, it was short,  Mark: It was  Yucca: it was something about right. Mark: Yeah. It was powered flight heavier than air. And it was a start, it was something. And within 50 years,  Yucca: We were on another planet. Mark: or, or ordinary people were buying tickets on commercial aircraft to fly from continent to continent. That's how fast it all happened. It is. It is extraordinary to live in this time. Yes, we have incredible challenges. And most of those challenges are of our own making,  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: That we didn't intend to make them. But intent and impact are not the same thing. And that's what we always need to be aware of. When we think about when we hurt someone inadvertently, if our impact is different than our intent, we still need to apologize and make amends,  Yucca: Yeah  Mark: because good intentions are not enough to excuse behavior. That's harmful.  Yucca: right. Mark: But as pagans, thinking about these big issues, thinking about the sacredness of it, all understanding it is a part of admiring it,  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: understanding it as a part of embracing it for the wonder that it shows us.  Yucca: And helping us to be able to make more informed and responsible choices.  Mark: Hmm.  Yucca: Right. There's often something that I hear echoed over and over again is, you know, why should we be spending money, exploring the universe and exploring space when we have so many problems here on earth and I'm sympathetic to that, right? We have so many things that we need to work on. But I think that the exploration and the, the, everything that we learn from that. Can put us in a better position to make better choices, like thinking about studying, why go to Mars or go to Venus? Well, comparative planetology lets us understand our own world on a level that simply would not be possible otherwise. Mark: Right.  Yucca: Because B as we can. Do a controlled study on earth, the way you could do a controlled study and in the lab and you put the, this, this condition and that you can't do that with the planet. So their next best thing is to learn as much as we can about the things that are similar to earth. Right. And just try and make decisions based on what we learn. And, and so many things we it's really hard to see how it's all connected, but yeah. That there is always a connection back to picking something that we learned for one from one field and be able to apply that to another. This is a really simple one, but photovoltaics. Right? So although that wasn't developed specifically for the space program, the space program really did do a lot of development on it. And what that contributed to the, the field back here on earth allows us now to have. Solar power, right? This, this is being recorded right now. You are listening to this podcast because that's the power that's powering my house. There is no electricity in the part of the state where I live. It's not there. It's not available unless you use photovoltaics. And so it's, you never know how it comes back around. Mark: Right. And all of that is true and important and valid. And I also go back to the piece that I wrote in my book, which I think is so important to acknowledge because the, the, the proselytizing atheists like Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris. They tend to miss this piece, which is that humans are not just rational thinking creatures. We are also emotional aspirational creatures. We have hopes and dreams and and optimism and pessimism and you know, and, and romantic aspirations. And. The voyage to the frontier is something that has been inherent in humanity. At least since somebody decided to leave Africa,  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: We've been, we've been going, we've been, we've been going from, you know, we've been making boats and going to Australia. We've been. You know, we've been moving around and interested in seeing what's over the horizon. And the horizon now is space. And I feel that there would be without space exploration and the learning that it provides us. I just feel. To some degree, the wind would go out of the sales of humanity. We, you know, if we turned back in on ourselves and I'm the first to say, I want to see everybody fed housed healthcare closed. I do not consider these to be competing priorities,  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: but where we should be mining, the resources for that are not from these not very well-funded space programs. It's from the gigantic piles of resources that billionaires have accumulated that they don't need, that they just don't need. Nobody needs that much. And so that's, that's where I am with it. And there's room for debate over all of those things. Of course, they're complicated issues and there are a lot of factors that go into them. But I don't think you excuse a poor set of social values and social priorities by pulling the plug on your feeding of human curiosity.  Yucca: Yeah. It's it gets people. I mean, ask, not every single seven-year-old, but most seven year olds you ask them, what, what are they really like? What are they curious about? And how many of them are going to tell you? I want to know more about space.  Mark: It's space or dinosaur is one or the other,  Yucca: Right. Both. Awesome. Could we combine the two?  Mark: Awesome.  Yucca: actually my littlest is really well. He's not into dinosaurs. He's actually into pterosaurs and he's really, really like particular about the distinction between them, which is  Mark: okay.  Yucca: but yeah. But right. So pterosaurs and space. So I liked that idea.  Mark: Huh.  Yucca: But yeah, but, and then that's one. So let's just say. It's all connected, right. And the exploration of our own past and our own future and the context that we're in. I think it's a beautiful thing for us too, to be able to explore that. So. Mark: Absolutely. And I mean, you can hear. In our voices, how animated we become when we talk about these things. And, you know, I think about the public scientists that are out there. And I mean, it was, it was a considerable effort for Stephen Hawking to be able to communicate excitement. You know, that, that was, that was very challenging for him. And yet he still could because his excitement at what was being discovered in his. Burning curiosity about the nature of the universe came through even his terrible affliction and disability. You could just, you could feel it coming from him and you know, one of the. One of the atheopagan principles, one of the 13 principles that we, we work to live our lives by in, you know, amongst those who are atheopagan is curiosity. And the answer, they, the, the feeding of curiosity feeds are all and reverence, which is the second principle.  Yucca: Yeah.  Mark: The awe and the reverence are what give us a sense of meaning and purpose and beauty and joy in living. And the curiosity is a means to the end of that as well as a means to the end of bridging that huge gap between ourselves and another person, and really trying to understand what it's like in their world and what their needs are And how we can best work with those. So it's cool. It's really cool. Yucca: And I want to put, it's always hard for me to do self promotion, but I'm going to make myself do it for anyone who does want to hear me talk about space a lot. And if you're on Tik TOK, I do have a tech talk channel. That's all about space and, and all of that. So that's space underscore stem, S T E M like science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. So I'll put a link. So if you're interested in that and you just want to. You know, talk about what's a quasar, what's it? This ask questions. All of that. You can find me there if you're  Mark: followed that  Yucca: the dude speak.  Mark: yeah, I, I set up a Tik TOK account for the atheopagan society and it's, it's just a placeholder now I'm following a lot of people, but I haven't put any videos up there, but I, I wanted to capture. The atheopagan label before somebody else took it. And although there are quite a number of  Yucca: Oh, there's some  Mark: Videos on that are tagged atheopagan or atheopagan aneurysm on Tik TOK. I, you know, It's. really an interesting thing because my first. Impression of tick talk was not positive. It was like The stuff you're feeding me is really vapid. And I don't know why anybody is sticking with this, but as the algorithm starts to get to know you, there is some amazing feminist content anticapitalist content, environmental content, political content.  Yucca: talk is really is awesome. There's some really awesome creators. I mean, I actually would, even though I'm on Tik TOK, I would suggest to anyone, if you are not there, you don't need it. It's it it's really, really good at what it does. And you will look up three hours later from your phone and go, where did my day go? Right. So if you ha, if you're already struggling with street with screen addiction, it's not a great, it doesn't help you. Right. I kind of think of it like, you know, I don't want to be giving like advices on great new beers to somebody who's struggling with alcoholism.  Mark: That's a good point. Yeah.  Yucca: But if it's something that you already are being able to manage and are already there on Tik TOK, like I'd love to have come check it out. And for people who want right. What you're saying, mark, about developing the atheopagan channel. Like if people have ideas about that we would love to hear  Mark: We'd love to hear it, especially now that, the permissible length of the videos has increased somewhat. I mean, it's, you can do a short little overview in, in three minutes, but now that it's expanded to 10, it's really possible to do some things. I, I think.  Yucca: most people still don't have 10. They just kind of randomly give it to some people and not  Mark: Oh, really?  Yucca: But everybody can, everybody can do three. But they we'll see, we'll see if the 10 sticks, a lot of people are upset about.  Mark: Ah, interesting.  Yucca: yeah, it's, I think it started at 15 seconds though. And they like slowly went up. I use every second of my three minutes, I have to edit out to go in and edit out what I say. I'm like, oh, do I really need that? That's in there because three minutes is so hard to say anything. And,  Mark: It is, it is. Yeah. I mean, especially when you're talking about stem content, I mean, that's because there are a lot of moving pieces to, you know, to, to that kind of education and winnowing it down to a single point is.  Yucca: Yeah. I ended up doing a lot of multiple series where I'm like, okay, we talked about protoplanetary discs this time. So now we're talking about this, watch my video on that. And then, you know, 20 people in the comments linking them, say, watch, watch the first video, like I said, but they're, they're working on it. So, it's a, it's a great platform for connecting with people, but it is, it's a bit of a black hole. Mark: Yeah. And, but my feeling is, you know, if, if this is where younger people are going I want to be there with them. I, I, you know, I, I want our community to be there with them because otherwise we're, you know, we're, we're just in this sort of hide bound capsule of people who are getting steadily more gray. And that's. That's not really community building it's it's unproductive.  Yucca: Yeah, Mark: And I mean, as I said, there is some, there's some really sharp thinking out there on Tik TOK.  Yucca: Stuff. Mark: there really is extremely sharp thinking. Lot of incredible anti-racists stuff, the indigenous stuff. is very good as well. Yeah.  Yucca: There's a yeah. And, and, and pretty much any of the scientific fields are interested in like, there's somebody from that field doing it. There's a ton of astrophysicist on there. And like, there's this lady who does like CRISPR that I follow and like all kinds of. And people who do history. And like, if you get to that side, you've got to purposely go and search out that content. And then the algorithm starts learning that that's what you want rather than wanting like the. Whatever there's, there's all kinds of stuff. Right. But it doesn't, you don't have to see any dances if you don't want, I mean, there's some pretty cool dances too, but if you'd like to not be watching dances on picked on, you can, you can get to the side of tick-tock that doesn't have that. So, but yeah, so that that's the plug. So space under store, underscore stem. If people are interested in.  Mark: Cool. Very cool.  Yucca: why don't we, we talk a little bit before we finish up today about the coming month or so in the night sky.  Mark: Good idea.  Yucca: Yeah. Because we are for, for those of us in the Northern hemisphere, we're moving into the time of year where it's comfortable to be outside. After dark. I know that at least in my area, in the middle of the winter, and it's, you know, nine degrees Fahrenheit out. You don't want to be out there, but now that you know, you're not freezing, there's some. There's a lot of really fun things coming up. The first thing is not right now, but next month there is going to be a total lunar eclipse for north America. Yeah. So for north America at a fairly reasonable time, the one that happened in November, Was in the middle of the night for most people was like two or three in the morning, but this one should be depending on where you live between like seven and nine. So I think a lot of people can stay up for that. Mark: And that's on the night of Sunday, the 15th.  Yucca: I think so. Oh, let me see here. Yes. So yeah, for, in that, for, in the states, it's going to be the 15th. So universal time you might see on calendars, it's saying the 16th, but on calendars, that's always going to tell you in universal time. So you just have to know what your time is relevant to that.  Mark: Yeah.  Yucca: So, so that'll be. That. And that'll be the weekend that we're at century retreat for anyone who'll be there with us. And, and we will be bringing some telescopes and stuff to that event for anyone who wants,  Mark: well, you, Yucca: well, I will, yes, I, I, in my little one, who's coming with me. So, and. We're going to be moving into times where there's more meteor showers. The last few months, there wasn't a lot going on meteor shower wise, but we have the lyrics coming up. They'll still be a bit of moon for that, which makes it hard to see. But that kind of sets off the whole media shower season. So most nights of the year, even if there's not a specific shower going on, you can usually see several meteors. That's pretty typical. If you've got dark skies, if you're on right in the middle of the city, it's going to be a little bit trickier to be able to see it. Right.  Mark: Yeah.  Yucca: Oh, and the other one is that if you are a morning person, all the visible planets and for the rest of the month, they're actually lining up in the morning. It's like a diagonal line across the sky in the pre-dawn hours to get up like half an hour to an hour before Dawn. And you can look out and just see this beautiful little line of like piercing, bright planets in the sky. And then maybe stay up and listen to the birds, start to sing and the Dawn come over the sky. So,  Mark: Well worth it. A good thing to do once in awhile, even if you're not a morning person,  Yucca: yeah. Mark: which I am not. But for some reason, a couple of years ago, I started waking up very early in the morning and I've been doing that ever since. So, I don't know, things change.  Yucca: Yeah. Mark: I wanted to put out a brief shout out we, or I'm sorry, not our podcast, but atheopagan ism gut name-checked. On the podcast, go home Bible you're drunk which is a well well-known skeptic atheist podcast.  Yucca: I haven't heard of this one before. Mark: Yes. So, and they're, they're great. For the, for the X van Angelicals who are among our listenership for the folks that are recovering from from particularly from Christian religion, that. Don't feel good about, they go into some detail about particular sections of the Bible and how they contradict one another, or you know, why they don't make any sense in a modern context, any of that kind of thing. So go home Bible you're drunk podcast very nice people and they gave us a nice shout out. So that was cool.  Yucca: That's awesome.  Mark: Yeah. Yucca: Great. Mark: Well, this has been a Great. conversation. I know We could talk about space for the next three hours. But we have to stop it somewhere. Yucca: We do. So just encourage any of you to, if you've got any planetariums or museums in your area and you're comfortable going out check out, see, maybe if they're doing something or there'll be a lot of online events too, you'd be able to find some, some cooler areas night celebrations, or maybe you could do a little bit of your own, you know, maybe put on some old episodes of cosmos. So yeah. Mark: And that could be as quickly as this, this podcast is going to drop on the 11th, which is the day before your is night. And It may be on the following weekend. It just depends on when.  Yucca: It's often on the weekends, right. Because people that, that works better for people's schedules usually. So that's good. Really good point. So. Well, thanks, mark. This is great.  Mark: yeah. It  Yucca: Thanks for nerding out a little bit. And we didn't talk about ice volcanoes, but maybe we'll be able to talk about  Mark: Oh, the ice volcanoes. That's right. Oh,  Yucca: Yeah. So search that Pluto ice volcanoes. So, all right.  Mark: Cool. All right. Take care, everyone.

“The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation” (Henry Thoreau).  Therapist Simon Roe has based his life's work on helping men live an authentic life. After himself going through a period of quiet desperation in his mid-thirties, Simon went on to help men break the silence, find “the song inside” and overcome their experiences of depression, violence and loneliness.  Simon has also worked extensively with boys and their fathers to create rites of passage that can help boys claim a strong, authentic sense of their developing manhood. Simon Roe originally trained as a body psychotherapist, and is also a co-leader of the Mandorla Men's Rites of Passage programme. He has worked extensively with perpetrators of domestic violence, and is a Respect approved trainer and supervisor. Simon has completed a foundation course in Process Oriented Psychology.  Simon and Andrew also discuss the idea of answering “the call to adventure”, an idea powerfully captured in this poem by Rainer Maria Rilke:   Sometimes A Man Stands Up During Supper Sometimes a man stands up during supper and walks outdoors, and keeps on walking, because of a church that stands somewhere in the East.   And his children say blessings on him as if he were dead.   And another man, who remains inside his own house, dies there, inside the dishes and in the glasses, so that his children have to go far out into the world toward that same church , which he forgot.   Follow Up Join our Supporters Club to access exclusive behind-the-scenes content, fan requests and the chance to ask Andrew your own questions. Membership starts at just £4.50. Visit Simon Roe's website  Learn about the Kingfisher Project, a community dedicated to rites of passage for boys aged 13-16.  Get Andrew's advice on creating real change in your life and relationships in his book Wake Up and Change Your Life: How to Survive a Crisis and Be Stronger, Wiser and Happier Read Andrew's thoughts on what to do if you or your partner feel like you're in the throes of what society would call a midlife crisis   Andrew offers regular advice on love, marriage and finding meaning in your life via his social channels. Follow him on Twitter, Facebook and YouTube @andrewgmarshall 

On this episode of Rockford Reading Daily we have a discussion about some of the ideas presented in the Civil Disobedience essay written by Henry Thoreau

In this episode of Rockford Reading Daily we begin reading Henry Thoreau's essay on Civil Disobedience and reflect on the concepts presented in it.

In this episode, I talk with Amanda Holmes, CEO of Chet Holmes International, founded by her father, Chet Holmes.Together we discuss her father's book, The Ultimate Sales Machine, including one of its most popular, and timeless strategies, the Dream 100, and more!Listen to the full episode now to learn more about the mindset and strategies you can use to increase sales and grow your business!--------Can you imagine what it would be like to double your sales year after year?You might believe that would be difficult at best, and you might even feel like that would be impossible...But would you believe me if I told you that it feels difficult or impossible because of your mindset?If you find yourself struggling with those limiting beliefs, this episode is for you!In this episode, I interview Amanda Holmes and discuss how she learned to reframe her mind to step into the role of CEO of Chet Holmes International at just 26 years old and how her company has helped countless clients double their sales year after year using their 12 Core Competencies.  In this episode, Amanda and I cover:What it took for Amanda to step into the role of CEO at just 26 years oldThe Dream 100 in practiceWhy you shouldn't rely solely on tacticsWhat the single biggest mistake in sales isThe importance of offer positioningWhat three things you must have to create a solid offer If you got value from what you heard here, please be sure to subscribe and rate this podcast! Bonus points for you if you write a review! ;)  — SUBSCRIBE & FOLLOW —Subscribe to Dan's YouTube ChannelFollow Dan on FacebookFollow Dan on InstagramFollow Dan on TwitterWant Dan's Wall Street Journal bestselling book for FREE?Click here to get Digital Millionaire Secrets, FREE!Interested in having Dan's team personally work with you to grow your business?Book a FREE Strategy Session here!Want to learn the 5 Things I Learned Scaling My Coaching Business To $25?Click here to watch the webinar now!Click here to Visit our Corporate Website: GetClients.comClick here to learn more about How To Think — TRANSCRIPT —Dan Henry (00:00:08): Hey everybody, Dan Henry here. Welcome to the How To Think podcast, the show where we dissect the inner workings of the human mind and learn how to achieve anything in business or in life. By changing the way we think. We bring on some amazing entrepreneurs, authors, thought leaders, and people that just know how to think and get stuff done. And today we have an amazing guest. Amanda, how you doing? Amanda Holmes.  Amanda Holmes (00:00:39): I can't wait. It's such a good intro.  Dan Henry (00:00:41): Thank you so much. So, so real quick, I'll do you know, I'm not much for intros, right? But you know, you are the CEO of Chet Holmes International, and Chet Holmes is your father. Who wrote, of course, the amazing; one of the most amazing sales books ever The Ultimate Sales Machine. The originator of what a lot of people now use quite a bit to grow their company, The Dream 100.  Amanda Holmes (00:01:09): Yes.  Dan Henry (00:01:09): And all that jazz, all that cool stuff. You've, and to be fair, you took over the company at 24.  Amanda Holmes (00:01:19): Yes.  Dan Henry (00:01:19): You doubled sales year after year. We're going to get into all that. But the first question that I have to ask you is, did you play all the instruments on When Grapes Turn Into Wine?  Amanda Holmes (00:01:34): No.  Dan Henry (00:01:35): You didn't. Okay. Well, definitely you definitely sang beautiful. You wrote the song. You played it. So I'm a guitar player. You know, that we talked about that before we went live and I listened to it. I thought it was great. Good production. Did you play, other than vocals? Did you do anything on it?  Amanda Holmes (00:01:53): No. Well, you  Dan Henry (00:01:54): Well, you wrote the whole thing. That's pretty darn good. Amanda Holmes (00:01:57): So I was a gymnast first, and then in my junior year of high school, I thought, oh, maybe I'll do singing. And then by senior year I already had my first record. And then in college I had four records, but all of the people around me were like amazing musicians. I went to USC Thornton, school of music. So it's like top. You either go to NYU or you go to USC or Berkeley school of music. So they were the best. And I looked around and went, I've only been doing this two years. I think this might be good if you guys play and I'll just sing and write.  Dan Henry (00:02:30): Well, that's fair. That's like knowing your role, knowing, staying in your lane, you know. That's amazing. That's amazing. So let's go back to cause a lot of people, you know, have read this book, which is again an amazing book. And I also believe a lot of people haven't read it and they've heard of it. You know how many people they say I'm going to read a book and then that book becomes a paperweight, you know? But a lot of people do know what The Dream 100 is, which, you want to play game?  Amanda Holmes (00:03:05): Absolutely.  Dan Henry (00:03:06): Let's play a game. Okay. So I'm going to explain to you what I think The Dream 100 is based on, you know, my limited understanding and what probably most people understand it as. Very, very like primal, very simple version. And then you're just going to tell me how stupid I am and how bad, how wrong I had it and that I'm going to get amazing value out of that. Trust me. So let's and by the way, before I get into this, I think a lot of people need to know your company has trained over 240,000 CEOs. And the main, I mean, I know you guys help with a lot, but the main thing is to increase sales.  Amanda Holmes (00:03:46): Yes. 12 core competencies on doubling sales.  Dan Henry (00:03:48): 12 core competencies on doubling sales. And would you say one of them is The Dream 100, or at least that's one, one of them is Dream 100.  Amanda Holmes (00:03:54): Yes.  Dan Henry (00:03:54): Okay. So let me sort of see if I can jump into this and okay. So The Dream 100 is where you find somebody that you want to sell to usually a big fish, right? Yeah. You just like, maybe it's the CEO of a company or whatever, and you research them and you figure out what they're into. You know, maybe they're into fishing, maybe they're into Marvel, I don't know, whatever. And then you send them this really amazing gift. It's either going to be really expensive or really thoughtful or both. And you get their attention because nobody opens a letter, but they always open a package. And they look at the gift, maybe it's a laptop. And then when they open it up, you're like, Hey, whatever. And then they go, well, who the hell sent me this? You know? And then they look at it and it opens up the conversation. And if you're clever enough, you can at least establish contact with somebody that you normally could never get past the gatekeeper. Am I somewhat on the same? Somewhat in the ballpark?  Amanda Holmes (00:04:53): Yes. Yeah.  Dan Henry (00:04:56): Okay. So that's essentially, I mean, obviously there's a fine art to it.  Amanda Holmes (00:04:59): Okay, so it's the fastest least expensive way to double sales because there's always a smaller number of better buyers than there are all buyers. So marketing and selling to them is cheaper than marketing, selling to all buyers. So how do you find that dream; my father called it The Dream 100. It could be The Dream One.  Dan Henry (00:05:14): Sure.  Amanda Holmes (00:05:15): I just recently saw a client of ours. They were at 60 million, they had 950 clients that produced that 60 million, but 900, I'm sorry, 969 clients 950 of which produced only 9% of their revenue. So 13 of their clients produce 91% of their revenue. So instead of going after another 900, they only led an intensive effort to one client. And that one client produced them a hundred million dollars.  Dan Henry (00:05:44): The big fish.  Amanda Holmes (00:05:46): And they doubled sales with one client.  Dan Henry (00:05:49): And that, that comes back to using the right bait and being in the right waters.  Amanda Holmes (00:05:52): Absolutely. Yeah. You did a good job of picking out some of the great things about it. So my father did it with lumpy mail and that's kind of progressed over time. There's also ways to do it on social. There's also ways to write, just being the bright spot in their day, adding value, being something of interest to them. So lumpy mail is one of those ways that we do.  Dan Henry (00:06:12): So I actually, you know, Russell Brunson, he invited me last year to speak at his conference. FHL and so I got to speak in front of like, I don't know, whatever. It was five to 6,000 people. And of course when people bought my stuff.  Amanda Holmes (00:06:26): Awesome.  Dan Henry (00:06:26): We probably did at least $2 million from that. So I was very thankful. So I was thinking to myself, well, for some, I don't know how I stumbled into this, where he asked me to speak, but I was like, I never sent him a gift, a Dream 100 gift. So I was like, let me retroactively do that because I don't think anybody does that. So I got him a Yoda, a life-size Yoda. Cause I know he's super into star wars. His kids are super into star wars. So I, and this was like right after this was Corona.  Dan Henry (00:06:54): So it was like, it took forever to get this fricking Yoda over to him. And they accidentally shipped it to me first. So they shipped it to me. So then I like put a, so then, you know, I got to like deal with that. And it's like this freight thing at my house. And so I put like a little note in and I bought like, RussellsYoda.com. And I was just like, listen, this is just me saying, retroactively Dream one hundreding you and saying, thank you for letting me speak at your stage because we had a lot of money. So I sent him that and he was very grateful, but I just thought, I was like, oops, I probably should've sent him something first. And I, cause I go back to that book and I'm like, you know what, let me see if I can like, correct this. So  Amanda Holmes (00:07:36): I love that story. That's so good. But it's also interesting. So my father, when he originally did it, he wanted to spend the least amount of money possible. Like he would get the stupidest little, like one time. I remember the day he found OrientalTrading.com. You can order lots of random, like a Rubik's Cube...  Dan Henry (00:07:53): I remember that. I remember that magazine be careful though. It's 2021. We may not be able to say that anymore. But, but no, I remember that magazine. Yeah.  Amanda Holmes (00:08:02): So that year we got 300 presents for Christmas because my dad went on OrientalTrading.com and bought the most ridiculous amount of things.  Dan Henry (00:08:12): He didn't go cheap on toilet paper, did he?  Amanda Holmes (00:08:13): Oh, he was, he would not buy anything brand, you know, designer, anything we got knock, I don't know about toilet paper. He wasn't buying our toilet paper. It was our assistant.  Dan Henry (00:08:24): Okay. Yeah, because there's some things you don't go cheap on. Heart surgery and toilet paper, Just saying, you know.  Amanda Holmes (00:08:32): So he was always about how do I find the cheapest things? It's just about changing that dynamic. But what it's evolved to now is because we have so much more ability to understand who a person is because they put everything online. Now we can get better about giving them something that would really mean something to them because he created it 30 years ago. Right. He was doing it 15 years ago. He passed nine years ago. And between the last nine years now we share everything on the internet. So you can be much more tactical about that.  Dan Henry (00:09:02): Let me, let me ask you kind of a, if you don't mind, it's a somewhat personal question.  Amanda Holmes (00:09:08): Happens all the time, yes, please.  Dan Henry (00:09:10): Look I remember when I was 24, right? I was, I was driven, you know, I didn't really get really driven till I was like 28. But I was, you know, I was being 24. I was, you know, drinking, going out, smoking weed, going to concerts.  Amanda Holmes (00:09:29): Were you at the pizza? You were running the pizza place at that time?  Dan Henry (00:09:31): Yeah. I mean, it was cheap weed, but you know, I mean, I was, you know, I was going to SevenDust concerts and I was hanging out and I was just being, you know, I mean, I was still trying to build my business and I didn't really have business then, but I was still trying to like figure things out. I had a couple of businesses that came and went, you know, but I was, I was being 24. I got started a little late. I wasn't that like 18 year old kid who was like, I'm going to be a millionaire. Like I said that, but it was like, yeah, I'll be a millionaire, but I wasn't really putting the effort in. At 24 to take over, not just a company, but a legendary company; a company that, I mean, it's not Joe, the rags man's fricking lemonade stand, you know, it's Chet Holmes International, legendary. I mean, what, I mean, how did you feel filling those shoes quickly like that and stepping into that role? Or were you already kind of in that, you know, or did you like hop off the party bus and go right into it?  Amanda Holmes (00:10:34): I was never so good at partying, I was very focused always, but I was a musician at that point. So my father got diagnosed with leukemia and he didn't spend one night in the hospital alone for a year and a half. It was between me, my mother and my brother. And he would have night sweats. So we'd be up all night with him and all of that year and a half, never once did he sit me down and say, these are my companies, these are what they, this is what they do. These are the people that run them. This is what I want for my companies. Right? None of that, we were just spending time together. Yeah. And there was no plan for that whatsoever. Like I'm sure my dad, if he were still here, he'd be like you did what? It would be pretty odd.  Dan Henry (00:11:16): So he didn't even expect you to do this?  Amanda Holmes (00:11:17): No, there was no plan for it.  Dan Henry (00:11:19): Did you just kick the door down and say, listen, Amanda is in charge now.  Amanda Holmes (00:11:25): Well, it puts things in perspective because for a year and a half, every day was Chet's going to die. This is what's going on. You know, it was life or death every day in the hospital with him and trying to find an alternative for him. So that was my context to then coming into this. Right? Well, well, so a, when things got even as difficult as they were, I'm like at the end of the day, nobody is dying. Like our business, like the worst that could happen is that I lost my father. Like that to me was the worst. So that had already happened. So whatever happens here, we can work it out. Right?  Dan Henry (00:12:03): Now, hold on a second. That's an amazing way to think about it.  Amanda Holmes (00:12:06): It's an important thing.  Dan Henry (00:12:07): I think a lot of people, whether they're entrepreneurs, whether they're authors, whether there's thought leaders, whether they want to be a sports star, whether they want to be a famous, whatever it is, if they want to achieve some sort of success, they, you know, a lot of times it's all about the meaning that we associate with events, how we define events and how we redefine events. So, you know, you being able to, some, another person may completely have a different definition of that. You know what I mean? But you gave it a definition that ended in a positive result. I mean, how important do you think that is?  Amanda Holmes (00:12:41): Absolutely. So I had looked to hire three different CEOs. I hired CMOs, CTOs, CFOs, just trying to fill the void. That was my father. I mean, he wasn't working in the day to day for years. Obviously it was all the sales team and there was a whole...  Dan Henry (00:12:56): So he was already out?  Amanda Holmes (00:12:56): Yeah, yeah. I mean, he was mostly just the direct reports would report to the CEO and the CEO would report to my father. So it wasn't like anything would really change. It was just like, as if a body no longer had a heart, it was just void of that, that founder. Right. So I'm trying to find all these different pieces to fill that, that hole. And I actually climbed Kilimanjaro. I went on the CEO retreat where it was like...  Dan Henry (00:13:22): The mountain?  Amanda Holmes (00:13:22): Yeah, yeah.  Dan Henry (00:13:24): Okay. Wow. I, well now I feel inferior. My, my best story is like, you know, going on a brisk walk  Amanda Holmes (00:13:34): I'm sure you have great stories.  Dan Henry (00:13:35): Not on Kilimanjaro.  Amanda Holmes (00:13:37): So it was one of my staff. We were at an event and it was actually a business mastery and he goes, you know, Amanda, I'm about to climb the largest freestanding mountain in the world. It's in Africa. I think you'd actually have a fun time. You should come. And I went, okay.  Dan Henry (00:13:53): It's whatever, sure let's do it. Yeah. Let's light ourselves on fire while we're at. It's fine.  Amanda Holmes (00:13:58): It was very bizarre, my thoughts were not really quite clear at that time. So Friday I get home, Saturday and Sunday, I buy all my equipment. Cause I'd never hiked that, anything before Monday I'm in Africa. And the first two days I am literally dying because it turns out that what's difficult about climbing is that people that smoke cigarettes, they have an easier time because your ability to breathe is restricted.  Dan Henry (00:14:27): Wow.  Amanda Holmes (00:14:29): Yeah. So Olympic athletes could have a hard time with altitude sickness because they're not used to not having breath. Whereas you look at me, my background, I was a singer. So I learned breath control like massively, right. I am certified yoga instructor. So I know breath so much.  Dan Henry (00:14:45): I wonder how many mountain climbers are going to start smoking now they've heard that.  Amanda Holmes (00:14:50): I'm sure they know it. I mean, you really have to practice it. So I was terrible from day one. I could barely get up that freaking mountain. And I shared, We were around a campfire the second night and I go, guys, I hate to break it to you. But I've realized that I hate hiking.  Dan Henry (00:15:09): I love how direct you were, and in such an eloquent way,  Amanda Holmes (00:15:14): They all looked at me like I was literally crazy. Cause they all had it on their bucket list for years. Right? Their lifetime.  Dan Henry (00:15:20): You like, you're crazy. The people that are climbing this mountain, but you're crazy. Got it.  Amanda Holmes (00:15:25): Well, because I hadn't thought it through. And I'm like, I hadn't really thought this through. I realized I hate hiking and I didn't know how I was going to get up that mountain literally. Yeah. I didn't know how I would do it. So then something clicked in me that I realized, oh, maybe I don't have to hike. Maybe I could just dance because I love to dance. And I love music. I've always been a dancer along with my music.  Dan Henry (00:15:47): What kind?  Amanda Holmes (00:15:49): I studied salsa, pretty intensively. Hip hop. I grew up on hip hop, like eight years of hip hop. So instead, now I'm sitting there and I'm like, either I changed my mind frame about this or I'm going to have to give up and I will not freaking give up on this. Right. So then I start singing. I have this personal,  Dan Henry (00:16:10): I'm just imagining you singing and dancing up this mountain. And I just said they were crazy. I retract.  Amanda Holmes (00:16:17): Well, no, no, no. So, I just recently written the song and it goes, forget the heavy load. So it had a really, really slow beat. So nobody could tell that I was dancing, but my head was going and nobody could hear me because I had all these masks on, right, cause it was really cold, but I'm singing my song and I'm moving my head and this is my mantra and it got me through the thing.  Dan Henry (00:16:42): I'm so wishing I brought a guitar right now because you have the mic. Wow. That sounded amazing. Did you sound that amazing when you were going up the mountain?  Amanda Holmes (00:16:52): Absolutely not, no.  Dan Henry (00:16:57): Oh man. That's incredible.  Amanda Holmes (00:16:59): But to circle it back, just to finish, the point is that change in my mind frame helped me to come back. And that's when I stepped in as CEO and said, okay, I'm going to do this. That was really a pivotal point because I also couldn't get up alone. I had to have help two African men, one by the name of Donut, that like assisted me when my eyes were rolling to the back of my head. I like literally couldn't walk. There was a guy that had died that day and was like, his body was laying all this.  Dan Henry (00:17:28): Oh yeah, that's fantastic. This is, what event is this? I'm going to put it on my do not go list.  Amanda Holmes (00:17:32): Yeah, every time people are like, I'm thinking about it. I'm like, yeah, I would never do that again. But it shifted my belief system around what I could do in my business. So I walked back and said, I didn't walk back. I flew back to the United States, and I said, let's do this. So that was a big point.  Dan Henry (00:17:49): So you redefined the problem. You found a way I can just hear like Jeff, Goldbloom saying life finds a way. You found a way to get up that mountain by channeling something that you loved. Because I mean, would you agree that if you're in a positive state of mind, if you're in, I mean, how often would you, you know let's say you're on your way to dinner and you're having a fantastic dinner with a friend or a significant other or whatever. And then on the way there, somebody like cuts you off, screams at you, like, you know, scrapes your car door, whatever. And you get into this argument, like you're in a bad frame of mind. Do you think that dinner is going to go as smoothly and nicely as if you were just, it's just butterflies and rainbows as you were driving down, right?  Dan Henry (00:18:38): No. So, so like you were in this frame of mind, like, Hey, I can't do this. This is nuts. These people are crazy coming up, Kilimanjaro, dead guy on the side of the fricking mountain, you know, but you had to do it. So you re you redefined it as I'm going to sing. I love to sing and dance. So I'm going to singing, dance my ass up this mountain past all the dead people. So I mean, you know what, it really freaked me out. Is you ever seen a weekend at Bernie's?  Amanda Holmes (00:19:07): No.  Dan Henry (00:19:08): You've never seen weekend at Bernie's? It's a movie where they had, I forget the exact plot, but this guy dies, his name's Bernie and they needed him to do something like right before he died. So they, like, they take him all around town and they're like holding him up and he's like this and they're like moving his arm. It was ridiculous movie, but I was just seeing you up the side of the mountain and singing and dancing. And then the dead guy on the mountain just starts doing this. I'm sorry. I smoke entirely too much weed. Okay. So, so, so, so here's the question. You went back, you, you took over Chet Holmes international. What's the first thing you did?  Amanda Holmes (00:19:56): Well, even before that, I would say the first thing I did was listen. So I think a lot of people, especially if you're changing positions or you're coming into a company and you just kind of say, here's what we're going to do, nobody will respect you. So I started by listening and asking lots of questions and the more questions I asked, the more they kept saying, oh, ask more questions. You're onto this. Right? You're understanding what's going on here. So I would say before that that's a predecessor.  Dan Henry (00:20:23): So you, you weren't that classic, like a Richie Rich, Macaulay Culkin, or whatever that walks in and just takes over and you know, like puts his feet up on the desk, like, all right guys, it's my company now.  Amanda Holmes (00:20:35): Absolutely not.  Dan Henry (00:20:37): Got it. That's good to know.  Amanda Holmes (00:20:40): And then I also think so I study under an Indian Saint. She's actually not too far from here. Her full title is [inaudible]. But I call her Guruji.  Dan Henry (00:20:55): I'm going to need to write that down.  Amanda Holmes (00:20:57): Yes, it's a good one. So I study under her and she just kept saying that if you come from service, that's the most important thing you can do. And if you can be a conduit of something positive, then you'll get through all of it. So that was really, it's not about me. It's not about the fact that I'm a 25, I think. So I stepped in as CEO at 26. So for a year and a half, I really looked around, tried to hire different people, and scrambled to find some kind of solution.  Dan Henry (00:21:26): So what was your role from 24 to 26?  Amanda Holmes (00:21:28): I was chairwoman.  Dan Henry (00:21:31): Ah, so kind of like, it was, it was just...  Amanda Holmes (00:21:35): A complimentary title.  Dan Henry (00:21:35): Right, right. Gotcha. Was there problems that you needed to solve?  Amanda Holmes (00:21:42): Absolutely.  Dan Henry (00:21:43): I mean, there's always problems you need to solve, but there were, was there something fundamentally that you deep down in your core knew that you wanted to change direction or you wanted to fix, or you wanted to, to grow?  Amanda Holmes (00:21:52): At that time it was just, you know, everything's on fire. We need to solve some serious issues. Like, so I stepped in a CEO. The week that I stepped in our merchant services stopped paying payroll. So like hundreds of people aren't able to pay and they're like, Amanda there's a merchant services have shut down. I'm like, what's a merchant services?  Dan Henry (00:22:18): No way.  Amanda Holmes (00:22:18): Same week, same week they come back and they go, so Amanda, we've spent half a million dollars to implement Salesforce. We haven't turned it on yet and we're thinking maybe we shouldn't, what do you think? I'm like, what Salesforce? You know, what is a CRM system? So  Dan Henry (00:22:35): You had to get acclimated real quick. Huh?  Amanda Holmes (00:22:37): My CFO used to always say baptism by fire.  Dan Henry (00:22:40): Okay. I still don't know what Salesforce is to be quite honest with you. I still don't get it.  Amanda Holmes (00:22:45): Well, 88% of companies hate their CRM systems. So it's okay. Even if you did know, you probably wouldn't like it.  Dan Henry (00:22:51): I hate that acronym. So just overall, I'm just like, just give me your email. We'll figure it out.  Dan Henry (00:23:05): I'm clearly joking. I'm clearly joking. This is what I like to say. And then my team is like, no, Dan, we have dah, dah, dah. And I'm like, yeah yeah yeah, I know, but this sounds cooler. It's fine. So,I'm going to do a quick, I'm gonna do a quick pitch. I'm just going to mention that our sponsor is us. So if you're interested to get daily success mentoring go to HowToThink.com and sign up. So that was our message from our sponsor. Yay. So, let me ask you a question. Is the Dream 100, that whole method, is that still the primary thing that drives Chet Holmes International? Or do you guys, do you have something different or have you taken a different direction or is that still the thing that you, is like the core?  Amanda Holmes (00:23:59): So we have 12 core competencies to double sales. That's just one of them. And it's, it's amazing how much this has been timeless. Right? So when I first decided I'm going to rewrite the book, right? Penguin was like, write the book, we get so many sales, we should just do a new edition. And I kept saying no. And then finally I'm like, okay, I will do it. And then when I went out on social and I asked, what should I update in the book? Everyone said, don't touch it. It's perfect. That was the response.  Dan Henry (00:24:26): It's like redoing a Pink Floyd song. Like, no, don't, don't, don't do it. Stop pump the brakes. Yeah, I got it.  Amanda Holmes (00:24:33): Very difficult. But so what I realized is that the framework is the same. It's just the ways the mediums in which have changed that need to be adapted and adopted. Right. So dream 100. Yeah. My father talked about faxing phone calls and lumpy mail. Right? Whereas we all know today...  Dan Henry (00:24:51): Can we, can we do. Cause some people may not understand what a lumpy mail is. Can we just define that?  Amanda Holmes (00:24:56): Well, you did as well too, right?  Dan Henry (00:24:58): You probably do it better. So is it, is it mail that, that, you know, is just let themselves go and just doesn't eat right? Or is it...  Amanda Holmes (00:25:09): So lumpy mail, meaning you have something in it. So it makes it a lumpy package.  Dan Henry (00:25:14): Yeah. All right. I just wanted to define the term.  Amanda Holmes (00:25:18): It's not a, not Humpty or lumpy.  Dan Henry (00:25:21): It is sat on a wall. Yeah. Got it.  Amanda Holmes (00:25:25): But today that can look like on social. Right? So I Dream 100'ed Dave Woodward.  Dan Henry (00:25:31): Ah, fantastic guy. Probably the nicest guy that I've ever met. In fact, sometimes I can't be around him too long because it just makes me feel terrible about myself because he's so nice. I'm like, ah, I need to go work on myself,  Amanda Holmes (00:25:44): His whole family. I mean, it's a test to who he is as well as you can tell that just his boys are so wonderful and his wife is so incredible as well. Their unit is wonderful. Yeah. They're great. So when I first met Dave, though, he kind of gave me a cold shoulder and I looked at him and went, oh, or are we not? Is my pig headed discipline and determination gonna kick in cause I have to like be friends with you. So I ended up following up with him. We friended each other on Instagram and I for every single day, for three months, every post he made, I commented on. So he would post, he took a hike and he bought some boots and he showed himself buying some boots. I'm like, I climbed Kilimanjaro and new boots. And I can tell you that that's the worst idea on the face of the planet you have to wear in your boots beforehand.  Amanda Holmes (00:26:31): Cause it will be really painful. Oh, that's nice. I'd get a heart. You know, he made a deal with his son that he couldn't not eat sugar for 24 hours. And I, and he didn't end up breaking eight sugar before 24 hours and he won like $10 or something. And I'm like, ha ha, you should have bet more. That's hysterical. So just little things. So he also posted a picture or a video of him and his wife and his wife is looking at all of these beautiful Christmas lights and she looks so happy. I'm like, Dave, you got to give your wife Christmas lights, like multiple times a year for how happy she is about these Christmas lights. Right? So I am in dialogue with him every single day. Even though he really didn't say much, it was like a heart here. I take screenshots of them, it's hilarious.  Amanda Holmes (00:27:17): But three months in him and Russell reached out to me and say, Hey, we'd like to buy 650 of these books for the, for our Inner Circle and give them to all of our best clients, which was awesome. I mean, five years later I just showed up to Funnel Hacking Live. That's how we met. Right. And everyone knew Ultimate Sales Machine because of that three months of pigheaded discipline and determination to follow up. So that's, that's an example of Dream 100 in today's world. Being that bright spot in their day where you're in their face, in their place, in their space and they can't avoid you. Right. But we still have these 12 core competencies. So it isn't just Dream 100. We're also known a lot for market data and utilizing market data.  Dan Henry (00:27:59): Do you get into sports at all? Boxing, anything like that?  Amanda Holmes (00:28:03): No, I'm sorry.  Dan Henry (00:28:04): Yeah, I went right past that. I just, I just did not turn down the right road. I just thought I was just playing on my phone. Just kept going. Well, the reason I say that is because, you know, what's funny is there have been times where, cause I'm a big like martial arts MMA.  Amanda Holmes (00:28:19): Oh, okay. My father was a fourth degree black belt.  Dan Henry (00:28:21): Oh, okay. Awesome. Awesome. So there was this and this has happened multiple times, but there was you know, I remember seeing Dream Onehundreding in that game. Like there was a, I believe it was Klitschko. I forget the other guy's name. Brandon probably knows it, but it's, it's the guy who's always like what's up champ. What's up champ champ. Do you know the guy I'm talking about Brandon? The boxer.  Brandon (00:28:45): I'd have to look up the name. I know exactly what you're talking about though. Yeah.  Dan Henry (00:28:48): Yeah. So what he would do was so Klitschko, I think I got the right one. He was like the champion. He was trying to get the fight. Right? Because you know, if you want to get a fight with the champ, you gotta, you gotta get the Champ's attention. You can't just say, I want to fight you or you have to be the number one contender.  Dan Henry (00:29:03): Right. But if you're not the number one contender, you got to get the attention. So this dude would literally follow Klitschko everywhere he went. If he was at a restaurant, he would show up with like a megaphone and be like, What's up champ? You gonna take the fight champ? Like right in the restaurant. Or he was, Klitschko was skiing. He came on a speedboat, drove right past him, knocked him off his skis and was like, come on champ, come on. What's up champ. Let's go. You know? And he did this like six or seven times and he finally got the fight and I'm pretty sure he lost, but the point remains, he Dream One hundreded his way into a fight with the champ. Oh  Amanda Holmes (00:29:39): My God. I never heard that before. That's such a good story.  Dan Henry (00:29:43): Don't I don't recommend anybody do that. That was an example. But you know, it's not what I'm saying to do.  Amanda Holmes (00:29:51): But the essence is there. The point is there.  Dan Henry (00:29:52): And that's the thing. Let me ask you a question in life. Cause you know, it's not just about business. I mean, a lot of it is, but some people don't want to be entrepreneurs, but they want to be authors. They want to be singers. They want to be whatever it is, whatever they define as success. Do you think that sometimes people when they try to, and this is the difference between people who get it and people who don't get it. People who succeed, people who don't succeed as they look at the tactics, they look at the surface level stuff, send a piece of mail here, do this. Comment here on social media. And they don't think of the essence. Like, I mean essentially that's what, what Klitschko got Dream One-hundreded and he gave him the fight. And that's the thing is that same, that same essence can be repurposed into a thousand different iterations and applications.  Dan Henry (00:30:45): And in a hundred years it can still be done. In the thousand years it can still be done. We might not have the internet in a thousand years. Maybe we were all just like cyber connected. And I can just be like, give you a compliment by going like whatever. And it's a completely, it's very creepy. But in this extremely creepy future Bing world, you can still Dream 100 people. You can still, sales is still sales. You know, rapport is still rapport. I mean, I'm hoping, unless we're all robots, then that might not be the case. But you see what I'm saying? Like, do you feel that people don't explore that enough? And they just try to rest on the tactics?  Amanda Holmes (00:31:20): Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, that's also why this has been so timeless and continues to be so timeless is because it's talking about the strategy and whether the tactics or the vehicles that you're using in marketing change. The things that my father talks about, like with advertisements, how much more it converts if you have a person next to a product. Right? So I think of that when I'm doing my Instagram stories, I always make sure I have someone dancing next to an image because I know research shows whether it was 20 years ago or not in, in newspaper advertisements with them showing like a book with a hand and it converts better than a book by itself or someone holding a product. I do the same thing on Instagram because it's understanding the concepts.  Dan Henry (00:32:04): Mm yes. Yes. I think that maybe you'll agree that when you deep dive into that and you don't play gets to me trying to learn tactics or at least relying on tactics, that's your safe zone. You know, oh, if I just learned his tactic and I don't expand my brain any, anywhere past that, I don't push the limits. I don't, I don't push the envelope and watch it bend. That is where you get stuck because you just, you, you build this little box and if the tactic doesn't work or does work or whatever, you stay in that little box and you don't push the box, bend the box, break the box and get out of the box. Would you agree?  Amanda Holmes (00:32:41): Absolutely. When I think of like, so we define marketing as creating top of mind awareness, like that is the whole purpose of marketing is to create top of mind awareness. So that as soon as they say, oh, I need a product or service like yours, you are the first person that they think of. Right? That's the true ability of marketing. Now, when you think of a business trying to do social media, they're like, I just need to do a Facebook post. I just need to do a Facebook post. Remember that the number one thing of any marketing you do is to create the top of mind awareness. So when you feel like, oh, I've only done this many posts, I don't want to do more. Nope. We're creating top of mind awareness. What do I have to do to make that happen? Right. Just like that. Very basic thing. We get lost in the clutter of all the tactics without forgetting. What is the point of what we're doing here?  Dan Henry (00:33:29): I agree. I agree. I have a much more you put it more eloquently than I did. I pretty much just say marketing is to make the sales guy's job easier. You know, like the better your marketing is the less, less less, you know, work you have to do when it comes to sales.  Amanda Holmes (00:33:46): Steve Jobs says it too. Marketing's job is to make sales obsolete. And the number one revenue generating company in the world right now is Apple.  Dan Henry (00:33:55): Of course. And how do you go when you go to an Apple store, what do they do? Do they pitch you? Do they sell you? They don't have to do anything.  Dan Henry (00:34:02): You got to wait in line. You gotta wait in line and then somebody like somebody, like you gotta go see the genius or whatever, you know? And it's, it's very different, very different environment. Yeah. And that's the thing is, is, you know, Steve Jobs, he was such a you know, he was such a brilliant guy. He and I remember there, there was a scene in one of the movies cause he had a movie with David Fessenbender Fastenbender. And then you had another movie with Ashton Kutcher and I believe it was the Ashton Kutcher one. And he was arguing with his engineers and they were saying people who buy computers, they like to switch out their CD ROMs. And they like to be able to replace their RAM. And, and basically what you, Steve jobs said was no computer nerds like to do that.  Dan Henry (00:34:46): People want whatever you tell them to want. And he created, he created that because that's the difference between, and maybe you'll agree. That's the difference between something like Apple and Microsoft, apple does not sell computers. Apple sells creative empowerment, think different. Microsoft sells computers. You go to, you go to, you buy a computer from Microsoft, you're buying a computer. You buy a computer from Apple, you buy into self-expression, you buy into spreading your art. You buy into creativity without the limit of, you know, you know, ease of creativity. You have an identity and you have and that's the difference. And that's why Steve Jobs did such a great job. But on the flip side the man created literally, the highest value tech company ever. And not only that is responsible for changing the way that we live our lives. I mean, think about it.  Dan Henry (00:35:43): I'm sitting here interviewing you. I got a fricking iPhone and an iPad in front of me, you know? And I mean, you want to talk to your family, you message on Facebook or, you know, you sh I mean, literally how we live our lives completely, really does social media, there'd be no social media without the fricking iPhone. You know, it all comes back to that. So he made such an impact. But do you remember, do you remember the story about what he talked about on his death bed? He said I don't remember the exact words, but he basically said it was all not worth it because he spent so much time making that thing great that he didn't spend enough time with his family and his life and he wasn't present enough. And on his deathbed, he regretted every single second of it. And I, I remember hearing that and every single day when I wake up, I try to think of that. And I just close my eyes and I say, I'm Steve Jobs in my bed about to die. And I just realized that none of this matters. How am I going to live my life? So that doesn't happen?  Amanda Holmes (00:36:40): That's really interesting that you bring that up because, so I had an experience with my father, right? 55. He has an empire. He is so successful, right? When he got chemo, he decided I'm going to buy a rolls so that I can drive to my chemo in a Rolls Royce. It's like really dad, really? And he was too nauseated to be able to drive it. So it was mostly me and I always felt so uncomfortable that people always wanted to take pictures. So we would wear hats cause he thought it was hilarious that people would want to take more pictures cause they thought he was a celebrity silly things. But anyways, so we had this moment where we were sitting in the hospital room and he had, so if you get a bone marrow transplant for leukemia, you're, you're quarantined into a room in the hospital and you can't leave for two months.  Amanda Holmes (00:37:27): So imagine my father larger than life. Right? Always dynamic, always out doing things, traveling the world, speaking and now he's confined to this small hospital room. And he was looking out the window and he says to me of all the wealth that I've amassed, it can only buy me the biggest room in this hotel or in this hospital. And I never forgot that because obviously what what's it worth if at the end of the day you can't enjoy it. He died at 55. So a big reason why I did the new edition, my why was because I wanted to give the final encore that my father never got to give. And it was this journey of him understanding himself and having a rich life beyond just what money can buy. So the last nine years, I've really, that's why I study under my guru as well. I there's just so much more to life than just doubling sales.  Dan Henry (00:38:26): Yeah.  Amanda Holmes (00:38:27): It's good that they have to get really far into this interview for me to say that, because normally I talk about sales.  Dan Henry (00:38:33): Well, listen, if they left already, they don't deserve to hear it.  Dan Henry (00:38:38): So we're going to take some callers here in a little bit. I love taking callers. I D I do ask the audience though that no internet marketing talk, that's barred. High-level strategy, only sales, whatever. So actually this is a funny thing is, you know, and I want to ask you this question. I'm very interested to hear this. I, you know, I woke up on it. I mean, I built my first company, or my first successful company, GetClients.com. This internet marketing company, you know, this company, HowToThink.com has nothing to do with internet marketing. And I, you know, I woke up one day and I said, you know, when I, in 10 years from now when I got a little bit more gray coming in, the last thing I want to be known for is internet marketing. You know?  Dan Henry (00:39:25): And I started asking myself like, what do I want to be known for? And, what would people talk to me about? And I kept coming back to thinking, you know? Like, I literally kept saying the word how to think, you know, so my question to you is, you know, your father is known for that book. I mean, I mean, which is a great thing to be known for. You write a book like that, you're going to be known for that book. And he's known for the Dream 100 and he's known for Chet Holmes International. My question to you is 10 years from now, what do you want to be known for? What does Amanda want to be known for?  Amanda Holmes (00:39:58): It's an interesting concept because I've spent a lot of time. So I, in pursuit of fulfillment, I shaved my head for five years. It was bald.  Dan Henry (00:40:16): Yeah. Thought it was Brittany, but no, Nope. It's Amanda.  Amanda Holmes (00:40:22): I didn't have a Cray Cray Brittany moment, but I did have a couple hundred staff all looking around going, what are you doing? And I'm like the amount of weight on my shoulders of the expectations of others and what they thought was dictating what I would make as my decisions moving forward. And I didn't want that. And my guru even said, if you want to release yourself of those expectations and be the best version of you and make those decisions based on your own independent logic, then this is a good practice to try. So I shaved. So I finally, for years I like got up the courage and I finally shaved my head and I loved it so much. I kept it shaved for five years and it was really this commitment to myself to be the best version of myself and to find that fulfillment within me without needing that from exterior people. And it's, it's an ongoing process. Like sometimes I'm better than other times, but that has been a serious undertaking to feel that burst of life that comes from me and me alone. So when you ask, what are you want to be known for? I don't want to be known for anything. I want to feel rejuvenated. I want to feel alive. I want to feel that I'm making an impact based on what I resonate with rather than...  Dan Henry (00:41:45): So basically, you don't need to be known for anything?  Amanda Holmes (00:41:47): Right.  Dan Henry (00:41:48): Wow. That's probably the best answer I've ever heard of it when it comes to that question. That's deep. So let me ask you this. What got you into the Indian guru thing?  Amanda Holmes (00:41:59): My father was diagnosed and we went through a couple of a hundred alternatives for leukemia and we narrowed it down to the top 150 best in everything. Sound therapy, light therapy, oxygenation therapy. I mean, pre speaking in tongues, I studied under monks in Japan and then I met her and it was just a completely different experience. Just being in her presence, felt different. Like something really magical about this woman. And I had Celiacs at the time. So even the smell of wheat, if I went into a pizza store, I would get nauseated because I was that highly allergic. I would have to go to the hospital if I ate any wheat. And she said, every disease is just a disease of your mind. So if you can release those, you can cure yourself of Celiacs. And I'm like, so you think I could...  Dan Henry (00:42:48): So you can eat gluten now? No way.  Amanda Holmes (00:42:51): So I, so anytime I was in her presence, I could eat pizza. It was absurd and imagined like  Dan Henry (00:43:00): What kind of pizza? I need to know. Don't tell me Domino's.  Amanda Holmes (00:43:05): She liked deep dish. So we would go eat deep dish. When I first met her, we were...  Dan Henry (00:43:12): They say you got to start small, you know,  Amanda Holmes (00:43:15): But so then she said, I need a concentrated amount of time to be able to help cure you of this. I have a center in Singapore, so I made my way to Singapore. And three months later, she helped rebuild my stomach lining and I now can eat wheat all I like.  Dan Henry (00:43:34): And I bet you that a doctor would have probably charged you tens of thousands of dollars to still have that issue.  Amanda Holmes (00:43:42): No Western doctor said that they could cure Celiacs. If you ask anybody about Celiacs, they say, oh yeah, you, I just don't eat wheat. Like nobody actually has a cure for that.  Dan Henry (00:43:50): Yeah. I mean, why would you, I mean, why would you cure stuff like that when you could sell drugs to people that have it, or why would you cure cancer when you can sell cancer? I mean, you know, much money we would lose if we, if we actually came up with or released the cure for cancer? All those all those machines, all those technicians that go to schools to learn those machines. You've got to think you've got a school somewhere. That school has staff. It has janitors, it has a cafe workers. It has construction workers that work on it. And that school teaches technicians. And those technicians have to use these machines. And the people that make the what do they call the cancer machines? Like chemo, chemo, chemo machines. Yeah. Somebody's got to do research to create those machines.  Dan Henry (00:44:32): Somebody has got to do the manufacturing and then somebody's got to do the licensing and all that dah, dah, dah. If you just came out with the cure, all those people would lose their jobs and, and, and you know, my response would be that they can find new jobs. But, you know, I'm just saying like, that's that that'd be a big thing. And I think a lot of people don't stop to realize that. And I'm not saying that there's any one alternative that I, or anybody promote or like, or say is the answer. But I think that you have to ask yourself, well, if this is supposed to be the only answer, going to a Western doctor and doing chemotherapy, you know, it's sort of like if I told you the secret to doing this thing is this thing, I just happened to sell that thing. Right? You know, if I say, well, the secret to lose weight is to, to get into a keto, you know, a state of ketogenics, by the way I sell these ketones just by absolute happenstance. I happened to also sell that thing, you know, it's, you kind of got to ask yourself like, oh, so this is how you cure cancer. And you also happen to sell the thing that does that. It's interesting. You know, we gotta, you know, you gotta think about that kind of stuff.  Amanda Holmes (00:45:40): That's the scariest thing about online marketing today is the health. Right? So on Google, you're not going to get the solution that you're looking for. You're going to get whoever's best at PPC, right. Or SEO, right? Yeah. That's yeah. That's unfortunate.  Dan Henry (00:45:58): I wanted to ask you about that. What's with this alkaline diet thing. Tell me about that.  Amanda Holmes (00:46:02): Did I tell you about that?  Dan Henry (00:46:03): No, but I do my homework, but I'm asking you.  Amanda Holmes (00:46:08): So amidst the hundred and 50 different alternatives that we looked at, whether they were from Asia, Africa, Australia, South America, the one thing that they all said common for my father to get him better was become vegetarian. Okay. Like even just to get your body back into alignment, that will help you get there faster and cancer can't breed in an alkaline environment.  Dan Henry (00:46:32): Really? So that means no meat. Is there any way I can get an alkaline cow? Do they make those?  Amanda Holmes (00:46:40): I think they're putting them in laboratories now.  Dan Henry (00:46:43): Really? So you can get an alkaline cow and maybe some alkaline chickens?  Amanda Holmes (00:46:48): No, they're just making them in a Petri dish. You've heard about that. Right? Making me in a Petri dish.  Dan Henry (00:46:52): Yeah. What it was like, is this a new vegan thing? Or?  Amanda Holmes (00:46:55): I don't know. I wouldn't recommend it.  Dan Henry (00:46:58): Okay.  Amanda Holmes (00:46:59): Don't eat straight chemicals, find better ways.  Dan Henry (00:47:01): Yeah. Yeah. I mean the plants, I mean, people, people bitch about the plants, but this sounds...  Amanda Holmes (00:47:06): Oh my God, even lettuce. Please stop eating lettuce and thinking that that's healthy. It's it's. So if it's hydroponically made there now just water and chemicals that create lettuce. So you are straight eating chemicals. So people like, oh, I'm so healthy I'm eating a salad.  Dan Henry (00:47:23): With cheese and Ranch dressing on it, but sure, you do you. Okay, well now I gotta ask you, cause now we're going down this health rabbit hole. And, and we, we went from, we went from fricking alkaline diets, not breeding cancer, which I really, I want to explore that all the way to lettuce is bad for you. Now I gotta ask you. I just got to know. Okay. What are your thoughts on cannabis?  Amanda Holmes (00:47:45): Oh, okay.  Dan Henry (00:47:47): I have to ask we're already on that rabbit hole. We're already on that side of town. Let's walk around. Okay.  Amanda Holmes (00:47:54): Well, so the actual plant has so many medicinal values, right? That is wonderful. I believe in the medicinal values of herbs, all kinds of different herbs. I like if I had to choose between someone doing cannabis versus doing drugs or taking pills, I'd probably choose that than the latter, right?  Dan Henry (00:48:21): As would I. Yeah.  Amanda Holmes (00:48:23): And then I also would add some kind of caution that when you use cannabis to get to it's helping you get to an altered state of consciousness, which is actually what meditation is supposed to do. But majority of people just sit in silence and think that that's meditation, which is the polar opposite. Because when you sit in silence, usually your mind gets louder and it just, you know, so cannabis helps get you there faster. You just have to smoke it. Right. The only problem is there's a disconnect between your mind and your body actually experiencing that. That's why it reacts in different ways. Same with alcohol. It's helping you get to this altered state of consciousness. Wouldn't it be cool if you didn't need to smoke or to drink, to be able to get to that place where things just fall off of you where you're honest and truthful. I don't know.  Dan Henry (00:49:16): I mean, it'd be a lot cheaper.  Amanda Holmes (00:49:19): But it takes work.  Dan Henry (00:49:21): Yeah. I don't prefer the ultra stage of consciousness that alcohol gets you. I don't like being there. I like the social aspect of it, but then, you know, at some point you end up in that part of town that you don't want to be in and then you're throwing up and that's not good, but.  Amanda Holmes (00:49:36): Not to say that everyone wants to be there. And that is the definition of altered state of consciousness. I should probably retract that statement.  Dan Henry (00:49:44): So, so, but I'm saying like, like, think about this, right? You have all these drugs out, you have. So here's the reason why I started being a daily cannabis user. I have real bad anxiety. Couldn't slow my thoughts down. So of course what's the first thing a doctor recommends, drugs, right They're going to, they recommend what's that drug everybody's on with the bead and you get the beady little eyes you know, and you're like super focused Adderall, Adderall.  Amanda Holmes (00:50:16): I'm not an expert on drugs.  Dan Henry (00:50:16): Yeah. So like a buddy of mine, he's like, dude, you got to try Adderall. You just take it. And you'll just sit there and get like a week's worth of work done in like three hours. So just like take it and do it when you nobody's going to bother you. And I'm like, well, if nobody bothered me, I would get three weeks worth of work done in three hours. So I don't need the drug if that's it, you know. But so he gives me two of them, right. So I sit them on my desk for, I don't know, two weeks. And I'm just, every morning I'm staring at them, I'm staring at them, I'm staring at them. And, you know, I realized that I didn't really need that to be focused. Right. And you know, I talked to another buddy of mine and he's like, Hey, you should try medical marijuana.  Dan Henry (00:51:00): You know? And I'm like, well, you know I don't know. And I was actually not, not for it. He's like, just, just go to the doctor and try you know, he said, how many times have you taken XYZ pills? Right. How many times have you taken all this medicine? You're telling me you're not gonna take the most natural one and at least give it a try. I said, all right. He closed me, and that's a good point. So I go, and I'm literally, I was like, I have anxi.... Here's your prescription. Right? I didn't even get the word out. Right. And so I started using it not during the day, but at night, because my problem was, let's say it's Six O'clock, I'm done working well, I'm done being smart for the day. I want to be dumb. You know, I don't want to think of all the problems with my business.  Dan Henry (00:51:42): I don't want it because I, then my mind gets tired. And then the next day it's already tired from the night of thinking and now I'm not fresh. So, you know, I tried it and it would slow my mind down. And let me just, I guess, kind of be more present in my thoughts. And enjoying things, food music, you know, and just let me stop thinking so that the next day mentally I could return with the fresh plate. I'm sure I could use some super ninja meditation stuff to do the same thing, but you also have never smoked the weed I've got.  Dan Henry (00:52:22): But, here's why I say this. So, you know, there are a lot of applications for recreational drug use that are not good, like cocaine and methamphetamines, all that. But then there are people out there that do things like not just cannabis, but they do things like psychedelics, like DMT. And Iowaska. I got to ask you, if you ever did a drug, it would have to be Iowasca all this Indian guru stuff. I mean, it would have to be right? Like that would be right up your alley. I would think. No? What's your thoughts on that?  Amanda Holmes (00:52:52): I mean, I feel like I've had a lot of psychedelic experiences. I just haven't taken the drugs to have them.  Dan Henry (00:52:58): That's true. That's true.  Amanda Holmes (00:52:59): So like, I could talk with the best of them. I have great, great stories of experiences, right. But it's like on a solar eclipse, my guru decided that we were going to chant for three days straight and it was eight hours a day. For three days straight.  Dan Henry (00:53:16): You accomplished the same thing. Have you been able to accomplish ego death?  Amanda Holmes (00:53:20): I don't know what the definition of ego death is.  Dan Henry (00:53:22): It's the thing where, I mean, I, as apparently you can, you can achieve it through meditation or obviously, psychedelics. I guess that's the easier way, quicker, but it's where you lose the sense of self. You lose a sense of who, you no longer become Amanda or Dan. And I guess, and maybe I'm not explaining this best way, but essentially it allows you to mentally feel like what it's like to die and cease to exist and not have an identity. And it's like a whole different trippy type of thing. And I didn't know if you have gone that deep down the rabbit hole or not, I stay up late and watch YouTube videos sometimes. And this is where it goes. You ever watched the Joe Rogan podcast, man, you can get, you can go down some holes, man. You can go down some rabbit holes, but we're bringing up this stuff. I just figured that maybe you'd have an opinion on it. Good, bad, indifferent.  Amanda Holmes (00:54:16): I mean, I've spent a lot of time. I mean a lot of time, I'm 33, but a lot of time, like the last nine years I've studied intensively under a Saint that if you truly want to be connected to let's say, if you were divided into your ego and your soul you can't even walk up to the door of her location if you don't want to truly know yourself. And, people that are looking for truth and looking for the best version of themselves, regardless of what the world says, regardless of what they say, your ego should be. Like, if you go there for ego pampering, you will get slapped. Like people I've watched people walk in the door and then leave because they can't handle the idea of stripping away the masks that we wear. So ego death,  Dan Henry (00:55:08): Maybe they call it something different.  Amanda Holmes (00:55:11): Yeah. Well that sounds like a painful experience, which can be difficult, but I'd rather connect it to a positive thing if we're thinking about the mindset. Like  Dan Henry (00:55:20): A lot of people that go through it, describe it as scary at first, but then beautiful. Scary then beautiful. I've haven't done it. I haven't gone through it. I just, it, I didn't even really get into it until I started talking to a lot of entrepreneurs and I'd go to these conferences and everybody would be like, Hey, you do Iowaska yet? And I'm like, no. And then somebody else, you do Iowaska yet? I'm like, no, why is everyone asking me that. You do Iawaska yet? I'm like, no, what are you guys all on drugs? Like, what are you, what are you doing? And so then I just got curious and I was like, well, now I gotta look into this because everybody's doing it. Not everybody, but it was just an absurdly high amount of people saying it. And I was like, well, now I gotta see what this is all about. But then I did research that meditation, heavy, heavy, serious meditation, not like, you know, Sunday meditation class at the yoga studio, but like deep, deep, deep, deep stuff achieved very similar results. And it's just, it's a fascinating sort of it's just, it's a fascinating thing to get into because a lot of people don't talk about stuff like that.  Amanda Holmes (00:56:22): I reframe it still, the ego death sounds painful and agonizing. I would rather say so something that my guru taught me was calling your higher self. Like I, something I say all day, every day as I grant myself permission to connect to my higher self. And so instead of thinking about a death, I'd rather think about a birth and a prosperous, you know, prosperity, abundant feeling. And that abundant feeling is in birth.  Dan Henry (00:56:49): I love how you reframe things all the time constantly, constantly. Yeah. So should you feel like the ultimate goal of a human being should be to achieve the highest version of themselves?  Amanda Holmes (00:56:59): Absolutely. Everything starts with you, right and your relationship with yourself. I watched that with my father. He was surrounded by all the people that loved him. Most he had a magnificent business and yet he felt alone.  Dan Henry (00:57:16): Yeah. I think a lot of entrepreneurs feel that way, even when they're not at the height of success that you and your father had still, I feel like a lot of them and,  Amanda Holmes (00:57:26): And everyone, it's not just entrepreneurs. It's just everyone. So  Dan Henry (00:57:30): There's not a lot of stuff out there. Oh. How to get rich, how to become rich, how to increase sales. There's not a lot of stuff out there to deal with that. You know, there should be more of it. Yeah. So do you let me ask you let's change gears here for a second.  Amanda Holmes (00:57:46): Let's do it. We took some, we went some rabbit holes. I wonder what calls are going to be.  Dan Henry (00:57:52): No, they're still going to ask about sales, whatever Dan, take your Iowaska. Amanda, how can I increase sales? I guarantee you, I can guarantee you. So let me ask you this. Cause it sounds like growth is super important to you and as well contribution. If you had a hundred million dollars and you could only spend it on bettering the world and there was no red tape, no restrictions what'd you do?  Amanda Holmes (00:58:18): So for the last five years, I've driven 10,000 miles around the United States looking for a remote area, couple hundred acres that I could create a university of self-realization. My guru came up with this idea and I just love it. This place where people could come, just like what I experienced, just getting disconnected from all of the craziness that's happening in our outside world. And connecting back to who we are, get really simple, learn the power of your mind, right? Learn how we only use a small percentage of it because we're clouded in our angers and our fears and our guilts and find that place of discernment so you can make