Speaking of Business with Goldy Hyder

Laurent Ferreira is blunt when he assesses the state of Canada's economic trouble.“The status of our economy is red,” he said in a June 9 conversation with Goldy Hyder at the Conférence de Montréal.The president and CEO of National Bank of Canada stressed the urgency for Canada to strengthen its economy in light of geopolitical uncertainty. But he's optimistic the country will take action, saying now is the time to “get projects built across the country, get to the bottom of what are the causes of our economic performance, and move forward.”Ferreira sees a major role for Canadian energy in Canada's future. The Quebec-based bank recently acquired Alberta-based Canadian Western Bank, expanding the bank's footprint into more markets across the country. He says nation-building projects, including energy, will keep the federation strong. And to land those projects, there's an overriding need to reduce regulations. “I think that the biggest impediment to energy transition is regulation. It's not Alberta. It's regulation. That's the real problem.”Listen to the full conversation on the Speaking of Business podcast. Revealing conversations with influential innovators, entrepreneurs and leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca/podcasts/

Roy Gori started his first job – a paper route – at age eight. At ten, he was delivering medications to seniors for a local pharmacy. He got a job with Citibank straight out of high school at 17 and has been working full time ever since. So it's perhaps not surprising that, at age 56, he's decided to try something new.In early May, he retired as President and CEO of Manulife after eight years leading the international financial services group. The Canadian company has a massive global footprint, employing 40 thousand people around the world. Before leaving his post, Gori sat down with Goldy Hyder to reflect on his career and talk about what comes next.“It has been the honour and privilege of my life to lead this great Canadian organization,” he says on the Speaking of Business podcast. “Never would I have imagined that the son of a coal miner could become the CEO … and I've never taken that responsibility lightly.”In the wide-ranging conversation, Gori discusses his work ethic, lessons he's learned through adversity, transformational changes at Manulife, and Canada's global reputation.Listen to the full interview, including how Gori ended up intercepting a pass from quarterback Tom Brady, on the Speaking of Business podcast.  Revealing conversations with influential innovators, entrepreneurs and leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca/podcasts/

Scott Balfour has some simple career advice for his three sons: stay humble, work hard and be kind. It's what he learned from his mother and grandmother and he maintains those “fundamental skills” have been the most important throughout his career. Born and raised in Oakville, Ontario, Balfour spent a year working on the assembly line at the local Ford plant before returning to Laurier University to complete his degree. He went on to work in commercial banking, corporate finance and infrastructure development before pivoting to the energy sector, becoming president and CEO of Emera. The Halifax-headquartered energy company serves more than 2.5 million customers across Canada, the United States and the Caribbean.At Emera, Balfour has been at the forefront of the industry's transformation, overseeing the company's shift towards more renewable energy sources and modernizing its energy mix. He has navigated the complexities of policy, regulation, and customer needs, all while maintaining a commitment to reliability, affordability, and environmental stewardship. Listen to his full conversation – including his hopes for Canada's future – on the Speaking of Business podcast with Goldy Hyder. Revealing conversations with influential innovators, entrepreneurs and leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca/podcasts/

When Dean Setoguchi thinks about Canada's energy industry, he sees a bright future, and it's partly due to tariff threats from the United States. “I'm an optimist,” he tells Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast. “I feel like there's a recognition by Canadians that our national resources are our treasure, and I don't think that recognition has been there for the past at least decade.”The president and CEO of Keyera hopes momentum will build to get Canadian natural gas to more customers. “We have an opportunity to deliver the world's most responsibly produced oil and natural gas in the world and we can help enrich people's lives across the planet,” he says. “If we can get the right policy and regulatory framework, we can do great things.”As a midstream infrastructure company, Keyera plays a vital role in processing and delivering natural gas across Canada and around the world. Reflecting on his own career journey, Setoguchi shares how he transitioned from accounting to the oil and gas industry, embracing the entrepreneurial spirit and "enterprise-level thinking" that he learned while working with smaller companies. He also discusses his deep ties to his hometown of Lethbridge, and the influence of his Japanese grandparents, who were interned during WWII. “I like that humble upbringing and being grounded no matter what position you are or what you do in life. At the end of the day, we're all just people.” Revealing conversations with influential innovators, entrepreneurs and leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca/podcasts/

What can we expect from a second Trump presidency and how should countries like Canada respond?Those are some of the themes Goldy Hyder explores with bestselling author, columnist and CNN host Fareed Zakaria in a conversation recorded on January 13th – one week before the presidential inauguration.Zakaria discusses his latest book Age of Revolutions and reflects on changes to the geopolitical landscape, including the potential impact of tariffs on countries around the world. Revealing conversations with influential innovators, entrepreneurs and leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca/podcasts/

Éric Martel understands the transformative power of innovation. The President and CEO of Bombardier says it “has always been in the DNA” of the company – from the invention of the snowmobile 80 years ago, to the development of cutting-edge aerospace technology today.In an interview with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Martel discusses why fostering innovation and growing Canadian champions requires a strong partnership between the private sector and government. He argues that Canada needs to take a more proactive approach to supporting its domestic industries, particularly in areas like defence, where the government can work closely with companies to identify future needs and collaborate on solutions. “It's about creating more jobs, creating more value for the country,” he says.Listen to the full interview with Éric Martel, including leadership lessons he learned as an 18-year-old cadet, on the Speaking of Business podcast. Revealing conversations with influential innovators, entrepreneurs and leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca/podcasts/

Deb Pimentel often tells her colleagues to be “loud and proud.” The President and GM Technology for IBM Canada believes Canadians need to be more passionate and vocal about their accomplishments. “It's incredible how many fantastic things we do that we don't talk about,” she tells Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast.Speaking at IBM Canada's Software Lab in Markham, Ontario, Pimentel expresses great pride in the innovation that happens there. The Canadian-developed software is being used around the world. Keeping high-tech jobs in Canada is one of Pimentel's top priorities. “I'm creating an environment where it's exciting for this next generation to come in and want to work here in Canada for Canada.” In the wide-ranging conversation, Pimentel also shares how her immigrant parents, who ran a grocery store in downtown Toronto, instilled in her the values of perseverance, customer service, and a strong work ethic – lessons she has used throughout her 29-year career at IBM.  Revealing conversations with influential innovators, entrepreneurs and leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca/podcasts/

The man who oversees the $650-billion pension portfolio of millions of Canadians started out his career in the relative safety of a chemistry lab. Back then, John Graham was a research scientist with a PhD in physical chemistry. He spent nine years working in a lab before he jumped from the world of science to the world of finance, joining CPP Investments.Now, as president and CEO of one of the world's largest pension funds, he recognizes that investing in financial markets is more art than science.“One of the few things I definitively know today is I don't do science anymore,” he tells Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast. “Finance is about investing in the real world, in a system that is constantly in flux, constantly changing. At times it can be irrational, requires quantitative, qualitative methods, art … and some science.”Speaking in front of an audience at the Toronto Global Forum in October, Graham discusses how CPP Investments has adapted and grown in its 25-year history, navigating through changing circumstances. Taking the long view, he says, means avoiding getting swept up in FOMO (fear of missing out) but instead building a stable, long-term portfolio. “Canadians should be proud that CPP investments is either the number one or two best-performing pension plans in the world.” Revealing conversations with influential innovators, entrepreneurs and leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca/podcasts/

After 100 Speaking of Business interviews with Canada's leading CEOs, we decided to mark the milestone by putting a few of them together in a room. We brought together a former CEO from one of Canada's most established companies, an executive from a Canadian success story that started small and became big, and a company founder from a brand-new sector. They had more in common than you'd think. Host Goldy Hyder wanted to know: how do you maintain a startup mindset, even in organizations that are decades old and employ thousands of people?“If you want people to be innovative and risk-takers, you can't punish failure,” said Linda Hasenfratz, executive chair of the board of Linamar. She joined former CEO of Air Canada Calin Rovinescu and chairman of Aspire Mohammed Ashour to talk about the ingredients companies need to succeed over the long-term.“Many of the characteristics and drivers for a startup business are absolutely exportable to mature businesses,” said Rovinescu, pointing to the need to communicate widely and to empower frontline workers.As the co-founder of a new startup, Ashour also discussed the challenges of launching a new business that is unlike any that have come before – Aspire grows insects as a protein source. “You are inventing the plane and flying it at the same time, which is a very thrilling but also terrifying reality.”Hosted by the Ivey Business School's Ian O. Ihnatowycz Institute for Leadership at the school's Toronto campus and recorded in front of a live audience, the three guests discussed their own career journeys, their hopes for Canada, and offered advice for the students in the audience. Revealing conversations with influential innovators, entrepreneurs and leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca/podcasts/

As the fourth generation leader of a family business, Galen Weston recognizes the responsibility he shoulders – to his employees, his country, and his great-grandfather's legacy. Weston's Real Home-made Bread began in Toronto in 1882. Today, George Weston Limited is one of Canada's largest private sector companies, with more than 200,000 employees. “It makes you think in decades, not in quarters,” he says. “You think about what is this company going to be not just a year from now, but 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 30 years from now.” In a frank and revealing conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Weston discusses what he calls “patient capital” – his long-view approach to ensuring the company remains strong and vibrant for generations to come.  It's a mindset he says Canada needs to adopt as a country, calling on public policymakers to think about how to create long-term prosperity. And he urges business leaders to be part of the discourse. “That unguarded dialogue about what's in the national interest could pay some meaningful dividends,” he says. Listen to the full interview, including his reflections on inflation, food prices and the challenges of leadership in the face of public scrutiny, on the Speaking of Business podcast. Revealing conversations with influential innovators, entrepreneurs and leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca/podcasts

When Elio Luongo started working for KPMG in Canada in the 1980s, artificial intelligence was the stuff of science fiction movies. Remember when The Terminator hit the big screen? Now, as Luongo prepares to retire as CEO, AI is no longer the purview of sci-fi imagination. It's increasingly the day-to-day reality in a modern workplace.Luongo is encouraging all KPMG employees to experiment with and learn from AI.“Businesses need to help their people develop skills around AI,” he says. “That is probably one of the most fundamental things that we can be doing right now.”In an interview on the Speaking of Business podcast, Luongo reflects on what he has learned and how he has adapted to technological change during his decades-long career.Effective leaders, he says, open doors for employees to develop their skills, continually. “This is what's going to change the productivity and the prosperity for people in Canada and we all have that responsibility to help develop our people's skillset.”Listen to the full interview – including why he describes leaders as HEPA filters – on the Speaking of Business podcast.  Revealing and insightful conversations with Canada's top innovators, entrepreneurs and business leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca

Carolyn Wilkins is fully aware how “geeky” it is to talk about economic growth. But the former senior deputy governor of the Bank of Canada has made a career out of it, and she is inviting everyone else to get in on the conversation – because it's the very lifeblood of our quality of life. “The economy is the foundation of peoples' financial and social well-being,” she says. “The kind of jobs people have, how much money they have at the end of the week, whether they can afford a vacation, that all depends on the state of the economy.”In a conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Wilkins takes the pulse of Canada's economy and discusses the impact it's having on Canadians' standard of living. She brings a unique perspective that reflects both her Canadian professional history and her current work beyond Canada's borders. She draws on her experience as an external member of the Bank of England's Financial Policy Committee and senior research scholar at Princeton University's Griswold Center for Economic Policy.She says she sees countries around the world working hard to rebuild their economies to be more competitive in a post-COVID world. “When I look at Canada from the outside, I can see the competition better, and it worries me because I think we need to up our game.”How? She has lots of ideas.Listen to the full podcast to hear Carolyn Wilkins' solutions to strengthen Canada's economy. Revealing and insightful conversations with Canada's top innovators, entrepreneurs and business leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca

John Kousinioris describes 2015 as a wakeup call. Back then, his company, TransAlta, relied heavily on coal plants to generate electricity for Albertans. The Alberta government had other plans. It announced a phase-out of coal-fired electricity plants and gave TransAlta until 2030 to comply.Rather than challenging the government's decision, Kousinioris says TransAlta decided to embrace the change. Over the next six years the company converted all its Alberta coal plants to natural gas, dramatically cutting its greenhouse gas emissions – years ahead of schedule. “It's been an incredible journey for all of us,” he says.In an interview with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Kousinioris, president and CEO of TransAlta, discusses the company's energy transition and speaks frankly about what it will take to meet Canada's emissions targets.“People are intuitively in favour of decarbonization,” he says, but “I don't think we've had honest discussions about what it costs to get there and the challenges associated with getting there.”In the wide-ranging conversation, Kousinioris also discusses lessons learned from his immigrant parents, his love of motorcycles, and his passion for the Calgary Stampede. “It doesn't matter where you came from, what your background is, where you've lived. When you've got a pair of jeans on, cowboy boots, and a cowboy hat, you belong,” he says. Revealing and insightful conversations with Canada's top innovators, entrepreneurs and business leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca

As a child growing up in Pembroke, Ontario, Meghan Roach remembers driving more than an hour out of town to shop at a Roots store. “Roots was always something special,” she recalls, pointing to the durability of their well-worn products. “I love the Roots TUFF Boots. You would buy these things and you could not wear them out.”Little did she know then that she would one day become CEO of the iconic Canadian company.With humble beginnings in Toronto in 1973, Roots has grown into an international brand, sharing Canadian-inspired products around the world and outfitting the likes of athletes, celebrities and presidents.Despite its global imprint, Roots still makes all its leather goods by hand at the Roots Leather Factory in Toronto.In a conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Roach provides a tour of the factory and discusses the Roots legacy.“My father said to me never forget where you came from, and this is exactly what I think of when I come to this factory every day,” she says. “This is a 50-year-old business and a 50-year-old brand and I'm a steward of it. I want to build and strengthen the foundation of this business so it's here for another 50 years.” Revealing and insightful conversations with Canada's top innovators, entrepreneurs and business leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca

For decades, the names John Risley and Clearwater Seafoods were practically synonymous. The story of Clearwater's founding is the stuff of legend in Atlantic Canada.It's a story of how John and his business partner Colin MacDonald started selling lobsters in a store on the Bedford highway in 1976 … and how they grew Clearwater into a global seafood giant. As the Chairman and CEO of CFFI Ventures, Risley has been involved in many other enterprises throughout his career – including telecommunications, space technology and green hydrogen – but Clearwater is what started it all.So it was big news when, in 2020, Clearwater was sold to a joint venture that included a coalition of Mi'kmaw First Nations. It was described as “the single largest investment in the seafood industry by any Indigenous group in Canada.”In a candid conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, John Risley recounts that historic sale, reflects on the business risks he's taken, and reveals why the world is now courting Atlantic Canada's ocean economy. Revealing and insightful conversations with Canada's top innovators, entrepreneurs and business leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca

They're taking on underground construction obstacles, tackling mining and energy quandaries, and don't hesitate to brainstorm daily about how to address climate change.Hatch is an engineering and professional services firm that employs 12,000 people in 150 countries around the world, all from its perch in Mississauga, ON.But you may have never heard of them, and that's by design.“It's true that we're not a household name,” says Hatch Chairman and CEO John Bianchini. “We're employee-owned and we don't feel the need to advertise other than – in the good old Canadian way – based on what we do.”Hatch may shun the spotlight, but the company loves a challenge, and has taken on some of the world's toughest problems. When it comes to climate change, Bianchini says it's an existential threat. “We're in the climate change economy,” he explains. “Pretty much everything that drives the economy today is around our battle to remove carbon from the atmosphere and making sure we don't put too much more in there.”In a colourful and wide-ranging interview with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Bianchini also discusses ways to unleash Canada's entrepreneurial spirit, the importance of mentoring the next generation, why he is a big supporter of arts and culture, and he weighs in on the work-from-home vs work-from-the-office debate.  Revealing and insightful conversations with Canada's top innovators, entrepreneurs and business leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca

When Jennifer Wong was an economics student at the University of British Columbia, she walked into an Aritzia store with her resumé. The company at the time was only three years old and operated two locations. She landed a part-time job, which led to other Aritzia jobs as the company grew. Three decades later, she became Chief Executive Officer of the clothing retail giant that now boasts 117 stores in two countries, plus a global online presence.“My journey has really been about figuring things out, learning new things and overcoming problems,” she tells Goldy Hyder in the Speaking of Businesspodcast. It helps that she knows the business from the shop floor up, an experience that gives her a unique approach to dealing with the ups and downs of the marketplace. “I like to seek to understand,” she says.That problem-solving approach helped Aritzia weather the COVID-19 pandemic. When retail stores were closed, employees pivoted to working for the company's online business, resulting in no layoffs.Wong says the staff felt they were part of a bigger common goal, which was to keep Aritzia going during the pandemic. “That's another thing that I love about Aritzia,” she says, “we have a lot of heart.”Listen to the full conversation – including how Aritzia expanded to the United States, and why it makes a point of supporting women throughout its supply chain – on the Speaking of Business podcast. Revealing and insightful conversations with Canada's top innovators, entrepreneurs and business leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca

When the last spike was driven into the Canadian Pacific Railway track on November 7th, 1885 in British Columbia, CP became the first transcontinental railway to connect Canada from east to west. Last April, the iconic Canadian company marked another first, when – in Kansas City, Missouri – a ceremonial final spike connected Canadian Pacific with Kansas City Southern. The new railway, now named CPKC, became the first and only single-line railway connecting Canada, the United States and Mexico. It stretches across more than 32,000 kilometers of track and employs 20,000 people. “This company is not new to change,” says Keith Creel, CPKC President and CEO. “We're ready for it and we're going to embrace it and unlock some unique opportunities that our network has created for us.”In an interview with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Creel discusses the benefits of the new North American line and delves into some of the challenges of operating across three countries.“We're going to celebrate the things that are similar, we're going to recognize the differences, we're going to never compromise our principles and we're going to create a common culture that I call a constant pursuit of safety and operational excellence," he says.Listen to the full interview, including what military service taught him about leadership, on the Speaking of Business podcast. Revealing and insightful conversations with Canada's top innovators, entrepreneurs and business leaders. Listen to more episodes here: thebusinesscouncil.ca

It was a summer job that sparked Mike Rencheck's lifelong career in the energy industry. He started out as an intern at the Beaver Valley Power Station in Pennsylvania in the 1980's, and never looked back. “It really opened my eyes to what was possible in nuclear energy,” he says.Skip ahead a few decades and Rencheck is now the President and CEO of Bruce Power. The nuclear plant on the shores of Lake Huron produces 30 per cent of Ontario's electricity – that's half of all the province's nuclear power.Rencheck recognizes the important role nuclear will play as Canada transitions to lower emissions energy sources. “We really need to progress forward if we're going to have a clean energy transition and have abundant energy that's reliable, clean, and affordable,” he tells Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast. It's why Bruce Power is looking at adding more production capacity at its site – an additional 4,800 megawatts of electricity (Bruce Power currently produces 6,550 megawatts).And Bruce Power doesn't stop there. The company is, in Rencheck's words, a “superpower” in the production of medical isotopes. The life-saving products are used to sterilize medical equipment worldwide and to treat some forms of cancer.In a wide-ranging conversation, Mike Rencheck and Goldy Hyder also discuss Indigenous reconciliation, the value of asking questions, and how to unleash Canada's “get ‘er done” mentality. “We have great people in Canada. We have great people here at Bruce Power. And when we choose to work together, we simply get things done.”

Jeffrey Orr has a simple message for business students: live your values. “I think people have the impression that there's a different set of ethics and values that apply in business than apply in their personal lives,” he says. “That's not the case.”The CEO of Power Corporation says in his experience, successful leaders turn to personal values and instincts when faced with tough business decisions. In a wide-ranging conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Orr discusses lessons he has learned as a business leader. Key to his philosophy is that consistent approach in his personal and professional lives. It's an idea he's eager to pass along to others, gently mentoring the next generation of leaders. “Mentoring is not about doing, mentoring is about letting other people do and then coaching, guiding and sharing your own personal lessons,” he says.Listen to the entire conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast.

Iggy Domagalski is a big believer in having fun at work. “Work can be enjoyable,” he says. “When people know that they can have a bit of fun and that they can take five minutes to spend some fun time with their peers, I think that sends them back to their desk smiling.”Domagalski is the President and CEO of Wajax, a Canadian industrial products and service company. With 3000 employees working in 120 branches across the country, a strong corporate culture that embraces positivity is a big priority for him. That's why you might run into a foosball table or an impromptu basketball game at a Wajax office.“You spend more than half your waking life with your teammates at work,” he says. “Why can't that be enjoyable?”Domaglaski believes happiness and fulfillment at work can permeate into the larger community. “Business can be a real power for good.”In a wide-ranging conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Domagalski discusses his approach to leadership, how he embraced entrepreneurship at an early age, the importance of mentors and why Wajax is dedicated charitable giving. 

François Poirier and his co-workers see themselves as problem-solvers.The problems are many, and familiar to anyone who follows North America's energy industry. The need to reduce emissions from traditional energy sources like oil and natural gas. The need to transition to lower-carbon sources without raising prices for consumers. The need for energy security in a world that is increasingly unpredictable.It's a tall order, but Poirier – President and CEO of Calgary-based TC Energy – is optimistic that his company and others in the industry can meet the challenge. Not only that, he's convinced that Canada can play an outsized role in solving the world's energy problems. In a conversation with Goldy Hyder in the Speaking of Business podcast, Poirier points to Canada's natural resources, private sector leadership and energy expertise as key ingredients that can help countries around the world lower greenhouse gas emissions.In addition, Poirier says Canada's energy sector has a lot to contribute to a coordinated North American energy strategy. “It's through collaboration, cooperation, and commerce that North America can underpin the security and the prosperity of billions of people,” he says.In a wide-ranging conversation, Poirier also explains why mental wellness is a priority at TC Energy, why he enjoys competing in triathlons, and what career advice he's shared with his two sons.

Twenty-seven years ago, WestJet took to the air with just three aircraft and five destinations. Today, the Calgary-based airline serves more than 100 cities across four continents.Overseeing the operation is CEO Alexis von Hoensbroech. He's a newcomer to Canada but not to the industry, having spent two decades working for and running airlines in Europe. When he arrived in Canada last year, he was struck by the country's rugged geography and “sheer size”, which brought home to him the importance of air travel. “In Europe, if you want to get from city A to city B, you have tons of options,” he says, including air, rail and road. “You can even take a bicycle in many cases. [Cities are] not very far apart.” That's hardly the case in Canada, where the alternative to air travel is often a journey lasting several days. “Aviation and airlines are an absolute essential service for thousands and thousands of communities … This is just a geographical fact,” he tells Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast.Given that, von Hoensbroech says he's surprised that government-imposed surcharges on air travel – including airport rent, security and navigation fees, and federal taxes– are “far more expensive” in Canada compared to other countries.“I'm surprised that the government is not putting more effort into making aviation more affordable,” he says. “Actually, they're doing the exact opposite.”Listen to Goldy Hyder's full conversation with Alexis von Hoensbroech – including his thoughts on the Calgary Stampede, and which NHL superstar hails from his hometown in Germany – on the Speaking of Business podcast. 

If you filled up your car's gas tank recently, or popped into a convenience store, there's a good chance you visited a Parkland location. The Canadian company supplies fuel and operates convenience stores across Canada under many banners, including On the Run, Chevron and Ultramar. Founded in Red Deer, Alberta, in the 1970s, Parkland now operates 4,000 locations in 25 countries. The company has expanded quickly. “We're a 50-year-old company, yet 80 per cent of our employees joined us within the last four to five years,” says Bob Espey, Parkland's president and CEO.While Parkland is best known as a distributor and retailer of petroleum products, the company is preparing for the energy transition.In the summer of 2021 Espey drove an electric vehicle from Calgary to Vancouver, stopping five times to recharge the battery. Each stop took between 15 and 30 minutes.That charging time might be a problem for some, but Espey saw opportunity.“What became apparent is the consumer experience is underserviced,” he tells Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast. “You hear things like range anxiety and time-to-charge anxiety, and there's an opportunity there that – as we see more EVs come into the market – we can address.”Espey recognizes the change will happen gradually and will vary depending on the country in which Parkland operates. “We have some markets like B.C. which are starting to transition quickly and others where it's not on the agenda yet.”Listen to Goldy Hyder's conversation with Bob Espey on the Speaking of Business  podcast.

Growing up in rural Saskatchewan, Tracy Robinson liked to watch the trains roll by. Little did she know then that trains would have a lasting impact on her life.She spent 27 years working at Canadian Pacific Railway before switching to the energy sector for almost a decade. Last year she returned to her roots when she was appointed President and CEO of CN, a job she calls “the best in the world.”Overseeing 30,000 km of track across Canada and the United States, Robinson understands the integral role rail plays in North America's complex supply chain.“We need the supply chains to be effective, highly performing, and resilient,” she tells Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast.  “Things are moving quickly. Trade flows are changing quickly. And if we want to be able to participate the way we know we can as a country, we need to be able to move with it.”Robinson sees great opportunity for Canada to share its resources and its ingenuity with the rest of the world provided the country adopts a more ambitious approach to economic development. Among other things, that means ensuring greater regulatory certainty and predictability for infrastructure investments. “Whether it be economic or whether it be climate, environment, we are part of a much bigger community and we can be a much more important part if we step into it.”Listen to Goldy Hyder's full conversation with Tracy Robinson on the Speaking of Business podcast.

Rania Llewellyn spent 26 years working at Scotiabank before making a move she describes as a “big leap and a big change” – becoming President and CEO of Laurentian Bank. And yet she says the hardest part of that transition was joining a new institution in the middle of a pandemic.The inability to walk through the office and meet people created unique challenges, she says. “Organizations are made of people. You need to be a really good listener to be a good leader.”In a wide-ranging conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Llewellyn discusses how she built a new culture at the Bank despite a remote work environment, and how it contributed to the development of a digital first strategy. “We flipped the conversation. [Rather than saying] ‘let's go back to the office and figure out what tasks we do at home,' it was ‘what is it that we need the office for?'"Thinking differently and challenging the status quo is something Llewellyn has done throughout her career, because, as she says, “why fit in when you can stand out?”Listen to the full conversation with Rania Llewellyn, including her experience as an immigrant to Canada and her hopes for the country's future.

When Deanna Zumwalt became President and CEO of Coril Holdings in 2021, she took on responsibility for an organization with a rich Canadian legacy. The Calgary-based company, with roots in the railway industry, has evolved considerably since its beginnings nearly 125 years ago. Now Zumwalt is looking ahead to the next century.“Being a family enterprise for 125 years, we think across generations – we think in 25-year chunks,” she tells Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Businesspodcast.Zumwalt challenges her team to be bold when charting the company's future. “Whatever we're doing today, we won't necessarily be doing in the future. We've got to figure out what that future looks like.”Zumwalt discusses her hopes for her company, the transformation she's seeing in her hometown of Calgary, and her vision for Canada – one that embraces diversity and difference. She also speaks candidly about the lessons she has learned from her four children, three of whom were adopted from Haiti. “I always say to my children, ‘Listen for, not against.' Listen for what you believe in. Listen for something that's in common and then build on that.”

Canada needs a new foreign strategy that positions it to compete successfully in a changing world, according to former Canadian ambassador Louise Blais.“There are major shifts occurring in the geopolitical landscape,” she says. “Canada will either come out as losing or winning from an economic and security perspective, but we need to have a plan.”Blais served as a senior diplomat in Canadian embassies and consulates around the world including Tokyo, Paris, Washington and the United Nations. She is now senior special advisor to the Business Council of Canada on U.S. and international affairs.In a conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Blais emphasizes that Canada's foreign policy must be rooted in a strong relationship with the United States, which buys 70 percent of Canada's exports.Even though the two countries' economies are interdependent, many in the United States don't recognize the importance of Canada, she says. “We have to do a better job at making sure the Americans realize just how beneficial the relationship has been to them and their own prosperity.”

When Dani Reiss took over his grandfather's apparel business more than two decades ago, he gambled on Canada. He resolved to continue making high-end outerwear in Canada, at a time when others in the industry were moving production abroad.The bet paid off. Today Canada Goose is recognized around the world for its luxury clothing. Reiss credits part of that success to the decision to stick with a “Made in Canada” label. For international customers, he says, “a Canada Goose jacket made in Canada was like a Swiss Watch made in Switzerland. It's a quintessential Canadian product when the place of manufacturing cannot be separated from the product itself.”In conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Reiss urges other Canadian businesses to “leverage the power of the Canadian brand.” He also reflects on being named to AMA Toronto's Canada's Marketing Hall of Legends, which honours business excellence within the marketing profession. 

COVID-19 created an “inflection moment” that offers Canadians a chance to build a better future, according to Penny Wise, President of 3M Canada. “We have a huge opportunity to make a difference and really change the growth trajectory of Canada if we really seize that moment,” she says.In a conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Wise points to three ingredients that should be part of the country's economic recovery. First, she urges the country to develop an industrial strategy that capitalizes on Canada's strengths and potential. Second, Wise emphasizes the importance of getting women fully engaged in the economy again, including in leadership positions, pointing to the large number who left the workforce during the pandemic. Third, we need a stronger focus on teaching science, technology, engineering and math (STEM), and on ensuring under-represented groups have access to that education. “Our future lies in making sure those people who want to pursue STEM — who want a job, who want a career — that we are providing them with the opportunities to make that happen,” Wise says.Listen to Goldy Hyder's conversation with Penny Wise – including the career advice she gives to young women – on the Speaking of Business podcast

Is Canada poised to be a winner or a loser as the world transitions toward cleaner sources of energy?Charles Brindamour, the CEO of Intact Financial Corporation – the country's largest provider of property and casualty insurance – is convinced that Canada has everything it needs to be a global leader in the drive to net-zero greenhouse gas emissions. He points to the country's highly skilled and diverse workforce, its robust energy supplies and its abundant natural resources as areas in which Canada has huge advantages. “Whether it's around industrial and natural carbon capture, whether it's about building on our strengths in renewable energy, or playing a massive role in the electrification of transportation, these are great opportunities for the country,” Brindamour tells Goldy Hyder in the Speaking of Business podcast.Brindamour says he began to see the effects of climate change more than a decade ago. His company responded by creating the Intact Centre on Climate Adaptation to help communities become more resilient to climate-related natural disasters.In February Brindamour was named Canada's Outstanding CEO of the Year, an award he says he shares with his entire team. “We very much think about Intact as a collective project to build a Canadian champion. And I'm hoping that this prize will help inspire others to do that – because we need more Canadian champions.”Listen to Goldy Hyder's conversation with Charles Brindamour on the Speaking of Business podcast.

Mary Ann Yule worries about the long-term economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on women. “Many working women struggled to balance the responsibilities that came with assuming dual roles,” says the President and CEO of HP Canada. “They are 12 times more likely to step away from their jobs to take care of their family.”The risk, she points out, is that many women's career trajectories will be hindered or knocked off course. She cites a recent study that concludes global GDP could be one trillion dollars lower by 2030 if action isn't taken to mitigate pandemic-related job losses for women.In a wide-ranging conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Yule discusses solutions to ensure all employees are engaged and supported – including through mentorship and hybrid work options.And she offers her own lessons in leadership. “There is a privilege that comes with leadership – and an obligation. We need to pay it forward by helping young leaders and blazing the trail for future generations.” Listen to the full conversation – including how and why HP Canada is investing in the circular economy – on the Speaking of Business podcast.

John Graham has a clear mandate. As CEO of Canada Pension Plan Investments, he oversees the retirement savings of 20 million Canadians, with the goal of achieving the highest possible returns without undue risk. And yet in a volatile and unpredictable world, his challenge is anything but simple.Take, for example, the fund's investments in the energy sector. Recently CPP Investments committed to achieving a net-zero portfolio by 2050. But that doesn't mean it is divesting its holdings in Canada's oil and gas industry. “We believe fundamentally in a path of engagement,” Graham tells Goldy Hyder in the Speaking of Business podcast. “Divesting takes responsible owners away from the table. Divesting basically puts these assets in the hands of people who may not have the same values.”Graham says Canada is poised for an “economic transition”, not just an energy transition, because the shift to low-carbon energy sources will affect almost everything we produce and consume.And he sees a significant leadership role for Canada. “Canada knows how to do these types of initiatives at scale. I think we very much have the resources and the scientific and technical know-how.”Find out more – including why John Graham switched careers from research scientist to pension manager – by listening to this engaging and wide-ranging episode of Speaking of Business.

How does an employer maintain a sense of community and office culture when many people are working from home?For Sonja Volpe, part of the answer lies in bringing staff together through volunteerism. “Volunteering is taking on an even more important role in the future hybrid work environment,” says the CEO of BNP Paribas in Canada. “It provides us the opportunity to engage with each other, to build out the internal network and strengthen the team dynamic while, of course, helping those in need.”In conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Volpe outlines how BNP Paribas – an international bank operating in 65 countries – is planning for what it calls “organized flexibility”. In practical terms, that means bringing employees back to the office 50 per cent of the time as COVID-19 restrictions ease.“Even though we've been extremely efficient and productive in a remote environment during the pandemic, that's not the way of the future. We need to spend time together and hence time at the office is important,” she says.Volpe also explains how BNP Paribas is addressing climate change through sustainable financing … and why the bank's Montreal office includes an urban farm!

When the Business Council of Canada officially endorsed the concept of a national price on carbon in 2007, it was a “tough sell”, says John Dillon, the Council's Senior Vice President, Policy and Corporate Counsel.At the time, the federal government and many private sector leaders were concerned that carbon pricing would erode Canada's ability to compete internationally. “In 2007 there weren't many countries anywhere talking about carbon price or any meaningful climate policy. There was a worry that a price on carbon could impact our competitiveness.”Dillon has been working on energy and climate policy for three decades. In that time he has seen many changes. In conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Dillon reflects on what he has learned, why Canada's business leaders have embraced the fight against climate change, and what the country must do it meets its net-zero goals. For more information on the business case for emissions reductions, check out the Business Council of Canada's report Clean Growth 3.0: Achieving Canadian Prosperity in a Net Zero World.

When Bharat Masrani looks to Canada's future, he sees opportunity. “We have all the tools in our toolkit to really leverage what is to come,” says the President and CEO of TD Bank.In a January 25th conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Masrani points to strengths – such as Canada's education system and highly skilled workforce – as key ingredients to help the country succeed in a post-pandemic world.He also sees an important role for Canada's energy sector as the country transitions to net-zero emissions. “You look at what those [energy] companies are doing – they're on the leading edge of technology, the leading edge of how we reduce carbon,” he says.Finally, Masrani points to the cooperation between the public and private sectors during the pandemic as a model for Canada to follow in the years ahead. “We are a country that is united in its vision. We want to be successful and we want success for all.”Listen to Goldy Hyder's conversation with Bharat Masrani on the Speaking of Business podcast.

Canada has the resources and the know-how to build one of the world's cleanest and greenest economies. That's one of the messages four business leaders delivered at a Canadian Club Toronto event on January 17th.The discussion, “Seizing Canada's Clean Growth Opportunity,” focused on the steps we need to take now to secure a low-carbon energy future.Presented in partnership with the Business Council of Canada, the event featured key decision-makers from Canada's mining, agriculture, financial services and energy sectors: Don Lindsay, President and CEO of Teck Resources;Karn Manhas, Founder and CEO of Terramera;Dave McKay, President and CEO of RBC; and Susannah Pierce, President and Country Chair of Shell Canada. The conversation was moderated by Nadia Theodore, Senior VP of Maple Leaf Foods.In Don Lindsay's words, “We have all of the competitive pieces to address climate change, to stimulate economic growth and to build a nation where our kids can thrive.”Listen to the conversation on the Speaking of Business podcast.

When half a million Canadians are counting on you to look after their pensions, you need to stay squarely focused on the long term. “We often joke, ‘A quarter is not three months – a quarter is 25 years,'” says Blake Hutcheson, President and CEO of OMERS, which  manages the retirement savings of current and former municipal employees across Ontario. OMERS is one of the largest defined benefit pension plans in Canada, with net assets of more than $114 billion. So it's good to know that when Hutcheson looks to the future, he's optimistic about what he sees. “This is one of those times where there are outsized opportunities ahead – lots of reasons to believe in tomorrow, lots of reasons to believe in this country, and lots of reasons to believe in the future.”In conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Hutcheson discusses the challenges of leadership during the COVID-19 pandemic. He also shares some of the lessons he learned growing up 200 km north of Toronto in the town of Huntsville. “To me the ticket for getting ahead as a society is putting [aside] differences and working together in a trusting way. Small towns do that.”Listen to Blake Hutcheson's conversation with Goldy Hyder – including his 2022 Stanley Cup prediction – in the Speaking of Business podcast.

When Susannah Pierce looks to the future, she's filled with optimism. Why? As she puts it, “the energy sector is changing, from one of being carbon-intensive to one of being more [focussed on] clean energy.” The President and Country Chair of Shell Canada points to innovation and investments in new technology by Shell and others – including renewable fuels, biofuels and carbon sequestration – as significant steps toward helping Canada meet its net-zero commitments.She also recognizes the need for the private sector to work with all levels of government to reduce emissions. “Standing on opposite sides, fighting over things, is never going to allow us to move forward,” she says in conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast. “The challenge is real, but the solution is one that we have to work on together. Let's make sure we roll our sleeves up collectively and get after it.”Listen to Susannah Pierce's conversation with Goldy Hyder, including her thoughts on supporting women in the workplace, on the Speaking of Business podcast.

When Dave Filipchuk began working in the construction industry in the 1980s, digital technology was just a blip on the radar screen. Times have changed.“We've got an internet-of-things evolution happening in our industry,” says the President and CEO of PCL Construction, Canada's largest general construction company. “It goes way beyond measuring things like temperature and humidity. [It includes] air pressure, sound levels, concrete strength, vibration – all with internet-connected sensors in our buildings as we build them.”Modern building design and engineering also has to take into account climate change. For companies like PCL, that includes using low-carbon, energy-efficient products and materials, sourced locally when possible. Buildings must also be capable of withstanding extreme weather events.For all the changes, Filipchuk says the fundamentals remain the same. “I often talk about it as the food, clothing and shelter business,” he says. “We meet the needs of human existence going into the future. How we do things will evolve, and we're going to need to adapt in smart ways to define that better future for our kids and the generations after us.”Listen to Dave Filipchuk's conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast.

If there's one word business leaders have heard throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, it's “pivot.” John Chen knows it better than many.Long before the pandemic, BlackBerry's Executive Chairman and CEO led the storied Canadian company through what he calls “a 180-degree flip” – from a hardware-centric business to a software-focused one.In a conversation with Goldy Hyder on the Speaking of Business podcast, Chen shares his experience and advice on adapting to change.For Chen, lesson number one is the need for patience. Major transformations, he says, often take longer than expected.He also emphasizes the need to focus on the end goal: “If you keep pivoting without a central theme, you definitely are going to fail.”Listen to John Chen's conversation with Goldy Hyder, in which they also discuss talent, risk-taking, and why pagers were once seen as a “badge of honour.”

Canada needs a strong economy to help it address significant post-COVID challenges, says the outgoing CEO of National Bank of Canada, Louis Vachon.In a conversation with Goldy Hyder in the Speaking of Business podcast, Vachon says Canada is facing four areas of transformation: technology, demographics, geopolitics and climate change.Connecting them all, he says, is “clearly the economy … you need to get it absolutely right, and fast.”Vachon retired from National Bank of Canada on October 31, following almost 15 years at the helm. After navigating many challenges, including the 2008 financial crisis, he says he hopes he leaves behind an employee culture that is able to adapt to change. “I kept saying to my employees ‘as a CEO, the only thing I can promise you is more change.'”Listen to Louis Vachon's full conversation with Goldy Hyder.

At the age of 24, Ben Cowan-Dewar set out to build a golf course in a remote part of Cape Breton. Construction began around the time of the 2008 financial crisis. Did he think it was a risky venture? “In hindsight,” he says, “obviously it was.”But it paid off. Now, Cowan-Dewar's Cabot Cape Breton golf courses are ranked among the best in the world and the company is expanding, building new courses and resorts in Revelstoke, B.C. and Saint Lucia. In a conversation with Goldy Hyder in the Speaking of Business podcast, Cowan-Dewar credits part of his success as a young entrepreneur to the advice and support he received from experienced business people. “I would watch these great Canadians in their 60s, 70s and 80s take a really long view and I thought ‘well it's easy for them, they've already been successful.' But what you realize is, it's easy for them because they've been through cycles.”Learning how to take a long view and adapt to economic cycles helped Cowan-Dewar, co-founder and CEO of Cabot, weather the COVID-19 pandemic – a crisis that had a devastating impact on Canada's tourism sector, including the golf industry. Now he's sharing what he's learned with younger entrepreneurs. His advice? – keep a level head, use problem solving skills, and remember “you have people who are really cheering for your success.”Listen to Ben Cowan-Dewar's full conversation with Goldy Hyder.

Lisa Raitt and Anne McLellan know first-hand the challenges of governing in a minority parliament. They both served as cabinet ministers in minority governments – Raitt as a Conservative and McLellan as a Liberal. “Long term planning is harder,” McLellan told Goldy Hyder in the Speaking of Business podcast, “but that doesn't mean you can't get big things done.  It actually requires you to make common cause with your fellow parliamentarians across the aisle … issue by issue the governing party has to find its support.” With a new minority parliament set to assemble in Ottawa, the two former politicians are searching for common ground. They are co-chairs of a new initiative aimed at developing a long-term vision for Canada. The Coalition for a Better Future brings together more than 100 organizations across the private and not-for-profit sectors. Their goal? To help shape a plan for long-term inclusive, sustainable economic growth.Raitt and McLellan know finding common ground among a wide range of interests won't be easy. But they both see the need to give it a try.“There's big change happening around us and we really need to be ready for it,” says Raitt. “And if part of being ready is making sure that we can scoop up as many voices in society to give an idea of what economic growth they think is needed, then I think that's going to be a very worthwhile experiment and one that will be welcomed.”Listen to Goldy Hyder's full conversation with Anne McLellan and Lisa Raitt.

Canada's Magna International is a $40 billion company that employs more than 158,000 people in 28 countries. Yet in the eyes of its CEO, it's really “a 60-year-old startup”.“We are still a startup because we are in a $3 trillion industry and it's changing,” says Swamy Kotagiri. “Every time there is change, there is opportunity.”The Aurora, Ont.-based auto parts manufacturer knows it has to stay nimble to keep pace with the evolving needs of the industry. That's especially true when it comes to the development of electric and autonomous vehicles.Kotagiri points to Magna's “rich heritage of innovation” as the foundation of its extensive research and development activities. But the company also maintains a raft of partnerships with universities, research institutions and fledgling companies. It's a “symbiotic relationship”, he says. “They bring the idea, they bring the fundamental science, the tech or the concept. We can take that and find the right application.”So what can customers expect from Magna when it comes to next-generation electric vehicles?“I am very optimistic about the next steps that the industry will go through,” Kotagiri says. “This is just the beginning -- and the right beginning.”

Mallorie Brodie wants to see a cultural shift in Canada – one that embraces risk. The CEO and co-founder of Kitchener, Ont.-based Bridgit Inc. says Canadians have a “level of discomfort” when it comes to taking risks, but it's essential when scaling up a business.She should know. Over the past eight years Brodie and co-founder Lauren Lake have built their construction software startup into one of Canada's fastest-growing companies – one that more than doubled its revenue growth last year.She'd like to see Canada embrace a similar startup mindset.“There's an opportunity for us to become much more aggressive when it comes to innovation,” she says. “We should really determine as a country what are our strengths, how do we double down on those strengths and then really become confident in them.”Listen to Goldy Hyder's conversation with Mallorie Brodie, including a discussion of what it's like to be a woman working at the intersection of two male-dominated professions – construction and information technology.

As Guy Cormier looks ahead to a post-COVID Canada, the president and CEO of the Desjardins Group says it's time for all of us to embrace a new approach.“Capitalism has lifted a lot of people out of poverty,” he says. “[But] at the same time, I think it's quite obvious that there is some collateral damage.” Cormier points to climate change and income inequality as examples of the myriad social challenges facing Canada. He says it's time “to give capitalism a do-over” by ensuring that the post-pandemic recovery includes a strong focus on sustainable growth.The pandemic brought home the importance of looking after one another, he says. In tandem with governments, businesses large and small stepped up to support their communities. Many people are now looking to corporate leaders to help tackle other pressing global issues.“Citizens, employees, clients, suppliers will be key people … to remind all of us that we must try to see the future differently than it was before.”In conversation with Goldy Hyder, Guy Cormier also talks about the importance of addressing mental health, and mentoring youth.

When the federal government appealed to business for help in the fight against COVID-19 last spring, technology company CAE answered the call.  It developed a ventilator prototype in 11 days and started manufacturing it soon after. But that’s not all. CAE designed online training programs to teach healthcare workers how to protect themselves from infection. It also started manufacturing air sanitizers for use in healthcare settings, workplaces and schools.Now the company has pivoted again, opening Quebec’s first workplace vaccine centre. The goal is to vaccinate 50,000 people by August.“In every war, industry has always played a key part as a partner to the government in fighting the fight and this one was no different,” says Marc Parent, president and CEO of CAE.He says the company adapted quickly by drawing on the skills and creativity of its workforce. And he thinks a similar approach can benefit Canada as a whole.“We have in Canada the ingredients to succeed,” he says. “At CAE, we invest in creating a culture where innovation can occur. I think the trick is, how do we do this as a country?”Listen to Goldy Hyder’s conversation with Marc Parent to hear how CAE is using that same spirit of innovation to tackle climate change.

The COVID-19 pandemic has changed how Canadians live, work and interact . Whether we are working from home or trying to stay in touch with friends and family while complying with stay-at-home orders, digital technology has become an essential tool. The demands on Canada’s communications systems have never been greater.For Bell Canada, the pandemic spurred a rapid increase in network capacity.  “It was clear right away that people needed to communicate in a different way to keep the economy going,” says Mirko Bibic, president and CEO of Bell Canada and BCE. “Audio conferencing, video conferencing … we saw huge surges in usage of our network. We had to invest in more capacity, so we leaned in right away.”

The COVID-19 pandemic has accelerated a digital transformation that was already well underway in Canada - just look at the phenomenal rise in online shopping and video conferencing over the past year.But the digital economy requires new skills. Is Canada’s workforce ready?“There is this stat that 40% of work is going to be impacted by automation,” says Sabrina Geremia, VP and Country Manager of Google Canada. “The misnomer is it’s 40% of jobs.  It’s actually 40% of WORK. Which means every single person will have an aspect of their job that will [involve] working alongside digital tools … so every worker needs to continuously train as these tools evolve.”For Geremia, lifelong learning is essential to helping Canadians adapt to an ever-evolving work environment.

A year into the COVID-19 pandemic, and many of Canada’s downtowns are still eerily quiet. Thousands of employees continue to work from home, leaving many office buildings sparsely occupied.But Jon Love, founder and CEO of KingSett Capital, believes Canadian cities will bounce back after the pandemic.The reason? Connection.“We can connect digitally, but it's so different than connecting live,” he says.  “Relationships are the currency of business. And connection and relationships are built in person. They can be maintained digitally. But the fact is, new relationships or building relationships or the nuances of relationships are very tough online. You cannot schedule spontaneity and creation.”