Across the Divide

In this episode, the finale of the Touring the Holy Land Series, Jen has a conversation with Saleem Anfous. As they reflect on the tourism series as a whole and the importance of these conversations in the current context, Saleem shares from his experience as a tour guide in Palestine and Across the Divide's producer. Saleem reflects on the opportunities for mutual transformation that he has witnessed through guiding Christians in the Holy Land. This episode also features excerpts from interviews with Palestinian Christians that explore the impact of tourism on Palestinian Christian communities. At the end of the episode, Jen and Saleem make a special announcement about a unique opportunity to travel with Across the Divide in 2026.In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Jen and Salem chat about Saleem's hometown Aboud, and its rich Christian history and present realities in the context of occupation. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Saleem Anfous is a tour guide in Bethlehem and the West Bank, a Project Manager for the Muslim/Christian Young Adults program at Musalaha, and serves as the producer of the Across the Divide podcast.If you enjoy our content, please consider supporting our work on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.

In this episode of the Faith and Activism series, Abeer speaks with Bryan Carey, a peacebuilding consultant and the Director of International Peacebuilding at Peace Catalyst International. Drawing on his years of experience living in post-conflict Bosnia, Bryan reflects on the theological and practical shifts needed within Christian communities to move from domination-based models of faith to power-with approaches rooted in justice, empathy, and shared responsibility.Together, they explore how Christian theology can either fuel cycles of conflict or serve as a powerful tool for healing and reconciliation—especially in the context of Israel and Palestine. Bryan shares insights from his work with diverse communities in the Balkans and offers practical wisdom on what it takes to form faith communities into networks for peace.In the extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Bryan dives deeper into what sustains hope in this work, even when Christian institutions resist change. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠.Bryan Carey is a peacebuilding consultant, conflict transformation trainer, and Director of International Peacebuilding at Peace Catalyst International. Since 2017, he has lived in Sarajevo, Bosnia & Herzegovina, working alongside Muslim, Catholic, and Orthodox peacebuilders. He regularly leads workshops and trainings focused on peace theology, conflict transformation, and helping Christian communities become active agents of justice and reconciliation.Show noteshttps://www.peacecatalyst.org/

In this episode of the Touring the Holy Land Series, Jen has a conversation with Rev. Dr. Mae Elise Cannon, the executive director of Churches for Middle East Peace. Mae shares some of her transformative experiences traveling and leading trips in Palestine-Israel. She unpacks the role that privilege plays when foreigners travel to the region, emphasizing the cognitive dissonance  that travelers often face when encountering conflicting narratives and the systemic injustices that Palestinians endure. Mae shares about how Churches for Middle East Peace facilitates Christian Holy Land pilgrimages, fostering transformative possibilities for Christian peacebuilding through multi-narrative trips that uplift diverse perspectives from Palestinians and Israelis.In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Jennifer and Mae discuss the impact of Christian pilgrimage on Palestinian communities, highlighting both the economic and emotional significance of solidarity. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Rev. Dr. Mae Elise Cannon is the executive director of Churches for Middle East Peace. Cannon formerly served as the senior director of Advocacy and Outreach for World Vision U.S. on Capitol Hill in Washington, DC; as a consultant to the Middle East for child advocacy issues for Compassion International in Jerusalem; as the executive pastor of Hillside Covenant Church located in Walnut Creek, California; and as director of development and transformation for extension ministries at Willow Creek Community Church in Barrington, Illinois. Cannon holds an MDiv from North Park Theological Seminary, an MBA from North Park University's School of Business and Nonprofit Management, and an MA in bioethics from Trinity International University. She received her first doctorate in American History with a minor in Middle Eastern studies at the University of California (Davis) focusing on the history of the American Protestant church in Israel and Palestine and her second doctorate in Ministry in Spiritual Formation from Northern Theological Seminary. She is the author of several books including the award-winning Social Justice Handbook: Small Steps for a Better World and editor of A Land Full of God: Christian Perspectives on the Holy Land. Her work has been highlighted in The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, Chicago Tribune, Christianity Today, Leadership Magazine, The Christian Post, Jerusalem Post, EU Parliament Magazine, Huffington Post, and other international media outlets.If you enjoy our content, please consider supporting our work on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.Show Notes:Vox article on the influence of the book Exodus by Leon UrisCMEP TripsCMEP Action alert

In this episode of the Touring the Holy Land Series, Jen has a conversation with Jer Swigart on immersive peacebuilding in the context of Israel-Palestine. In this conversation, Jer discusses the complexities of Christian tourism in Israel and Palestine, highlighting its role as a propaganda tool that often neglects the realities of the local communities. He emphasizes the importance of building deep, meaningful relationships with both Israeli and Palestinian kin to foster genuine peacemaking efforts, and how Global Immersion seeks to do this through immersion trips for Christian leaders. Jer shares personal experiences and insights on navigating the challenges of peacemaking, especially in light of recent conflicts. He advocates for local immersion and community engagement as vital components of social transformation, encouraging listeners to connect with marginalized communities in their own cities. In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Jen and Jer chat about the intersections in peacebuilding work across the contexts of the U.S. Deep South, Northern Ireland, and Israel and Palestine. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Dr. Jer Swigart is the Co-Founding Executive Director of Global Immersion, a non-profit training organization and conflict consultancy that forms Everyday Peacemakers and Reconciling Leaders to mend divides. Whether on international battlefields, the divided streets of U.S. American cities, or in organizational and congregational boardrooms, Jer is adept at guiding immersive processes that transform constructed enemies into co-creating allies and forge conflict-competent leaders and teams.He is a North American contributing member of the Reconcilers Together Alliance, a Pepperdine University Cross Sector Leadership Fellow, a Bonhoeffer Senior Fellow at the Hebrew College's Miller Center of Interreligious Learning and Leadership, and on the Leadership Team of the Network of Evangelicals for the Middle East (NEME). He holds an MDiv from Fuller Theological Seminary and his Doctor of Global Leadership from George Fox University. He's the co-author of the award-winning book, Mending the Divides: Creative Love in a Conflict World (IVP, 2017), host of the Mending Divides Podcast, a leadership coach & conflict consultant, and a speaker and writer who regularly reflects on the intersection of faith, leadership, and peacemaking. He and his family live in Spokane, WA.If you enjoy our content, please consider supporting our work on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.Show Notes:Global ImmersionSwigart and Huckins, Mending the Divides: Creative Love in a Conflicted WorldElizabeth Neumann, Kingdom of Rage: The Rise of Christian Extremism and the Path Back to Peace

In this episode of Touring the Holy Land, Jen has a conversation with Sara Williams about the power dynamics of narratives surrounding the Holy Land and the emergence of solidarity tourism among American Christians. Sara shares a shift she has observed in her research from traditional pilgrimage models to a focus on witnessing marginalized communities, emphasizing the call to come and see as a transformative experience. Sara and Jen also discuss how liberation theology informs solidarity tourism, and the complex identities and experiences of Palestinians that travelers can encounter. Their conversation explores the transformative potential of these tours, the ethical implications of participants' experiences, and the necessity of acknowledging the multifaceted narratives of marginalized communities. In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Jen and Sara discuss the transformative potential of “Come and See” tours and their invitation for travelers to engage in deeper reflexivity and genuine solidarity within Christian communities.Sara A. Williams is an Assistant Professor of Religious Studies at Fairfield University. Her scholarship examines possibilities for just relationships in contexts marked by asymmetries of power and privilege. Her research on this topic has spanned progressive American Christian Holy Land tourism and gentrifying post-industrial U.S. urban communities. Dr. Williams holds a PhD from Emory University, an MA in Religion from Yale Divinity School, and a Master of Social Work from the University of Georgia.If you enjoy our content, please consider supporting our work on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.Show Notes:Hillary Kaell, Walking Where Jesus Walked: American Christians and Holy Land PilgrimageSara A. Williams and Roger Baumann, “Journeys to and among the Margins: Transnational Religio-Racial Identity on American Christian Palestinian Solidarity Tours”Sara A. Williams, Moral Commodities and the Practice of Freedom”Sara also recommends Roger Baumann's book, Black Visions of the Holy Land: African American Christian Engagement with Israel and Palestine

In this episode of the Faith and Activism series, Abeer engages in a conversation with Rev. Dr. Sari Ateek to explore how theology, identity, and justice intersect in the life of a Palestinian Christian leader. They discuss Sari's journey from Israel/Palestine to leading St. John's Norwood Episcopal Church in Maryland, his commitment to inclusivity and radical generosity, and why he believes the true Christian message calls for the liberation of Palestinians.Together, they reflect on the challenge of holding onto faith in a polarized world—and the spiritual responsibility to pursue justice not from a place of partisanship, but from a deep conviction that God is always on the side of the oppressed.Rev. Dr. Sari Ateek is a Palestinian Christian pastor and the rector of St. John's Norwood Episcopal Church in Maryland. Born and raised in Israel/Palestine, and the son of an Episcopal priest, Sari brings a rich depth of experience to his ministry. His leadership is marked by a commitment to inclusivity, justice, and spiritual generosity. He holds a Master of Divinity from Fuller Theological Seminary and a Doctorate in Ministry from Virginia Theological Seminary.If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.Show Notes: St. John's Norwood Episcopal Church: https://stjohnsnorwood.org/Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center: https://sabeel.org/visit-sabeel/A Palestinian Theology of Liberation Book: https://www.amazon.com/Palestinian-Theology-Liberation-Palestine-Israel-Conflict/dp/1626982600

In this episode of the Touring the Holy Land series, Jen has a conversation with Michel Awad on the current state of tourism in Palestine-Israel and the challenges posed by mass pilgrimage tourism, which often disconnects visitors from the local community. Awad emphasizes the crucial role of church leaders in promoting a more balanced and informed approach to pilgrimage, encouraging visitors to engage with local Palestinians. He highlights the work of the Siraj Center in fostering alternative tourism that prioritizes community interaction and peace-building. Through personal stories and transformative experiences, Awad illustrates how tourism can serve as a tool for peace, urging visitors to approach their journeys with open hearts and minds.In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Jen and Michel discuss how church leaders and individuals can engage in pilgrimage experiences centered on justice and cultivating relationships with Palestinian Christian communities. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Michel Awad is the founder and owner of Angels Tours and Travel and the co-founder of Siraj Center where he works as the executive director. He is the President of the Holy Land Tour Operator Association and executive board member of the Network of Palestinian Tourism. Michel was a member of the Steering Committee for the Palestinian Initiative for Responsible Tourism (PIRT). Michel was also a member of the Palestinian Task Force for post-COVID19 Recovery and a member of the Palestinian Tourism Ministry Consultant Council. He was an instructor in Tourism Management in Bethlehem University from 2003 until 2023.Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.Show Notes:Siraj Center- https://www.sirajcenter.org/index.php/en/Michel's Tour Company, Angel Tours & Travel- https://www.angels-tours.com/  For more on sustainable and culturally resilient Palestinian tourism, see https://hlitoa.com/ 

In this episode of the Touring the Holy Land series, Jen has a conversation with Raphael Greenberg, an Israeli archaeologist focused on the political implications of archaeology in Israel/Palestine. Raphael shares his personal journey into archaeology, highlighting the intersection of science and politics, particularly in the context of Israeli-Palestinian relations. He discusses the colonial roots of archaeology and its entanglement with tourism, emphasizing how narratives are shaped to fit ideological perspectives. The conversation also touches on the City of David, where archaeology is used to support settler politics, raising critical questions about cultural heritage, modern tourism, and the implications for local communities. In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Jen and Raphael discuss the importance of critical awareness for visitors to consider the context and implications of what they see. Raphael also shares about the current realities of conflict in Israel-Palestine, the impact on tourism, and the importance of engaging with local organizations for peace and justice. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Dr. Raphael (Rafi) Greenberg is Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University. His research has focused on the Bronze Age Levant and on the social and political entanglements of archaeology in Israel/Palestine. His most recent book, co-authored with Yannis Hamilakis, is Archaeology, Nation, and Race: Confronting the Past, Decolonizing the Future in Greece and Israel (Cambridge 2022). He also serves on the board of Emek Shaveh, an Israeli nonprofit devoted to heritage justice in Israel-Palestine.  If you enjoy our content, please consider supporting our work on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.-Neil Asher Silberman, Digging for God & Country-Raphael Greenberg, Archaeology, Nation, and Race: Confronting the Past, Decolonizing the Future in Greece and Israel-Emek Shaveh-Rabbis for Human Rights

In this episode of the Faith and Activism series, Abeer has a conversation with Rev. Amy Graham about the transformative power of faith in driving justice and activism. They discuss Amy's journey from West Virginia to co-founding The District Church in Washington, DC, and how her experiences in social work, pastoral ministry, and advocacy have shaped her understanding of the Gospel's call to action. The conversation also highlights the role of faith communities in healing and advocacy, particularly in the context of Palestine, and the Church's role in supporting justice and liberation for oppressed communities.In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Abeer and Rev. Amy Graham discuss the unique challenges faced by women in leadership roles within faith-based spaces. Amy offers advice on navigating the balance between pastoral leadership, activism, and personal growth, while fostering courage and perseverance in the face of doubt and fatigue. To access this extended conversation and others, consider supporting us on Patreon⁠⁠. Rev. Amy Graham is one of the founding pastors of The District Church in Washington, DC. After receiving her Masters in Theological Studies from Golden Gate Seminary and her Masters in Social Work from Boston University, Amy has devoted her life to bringing the love and peace of Christ to desperate and dark places. She has worked as a pastor, counselor, social worker, and advocate for those in bondage to sin and those affected by the injustices of our world. From her trips leading groups to Israel/Palestine, the relationships that she has built, and the partnerships The District Church holds with those in the Holy Land, Amy has felt a particular call and burden to speak the truth in love on behalf of those suffering as a result of the genocide of the Palestinian people. Through her role as pastor, she has sought to support, encourage, and empower the voices of those living in the land.Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.Show Notes:https://districtchurch.org/

In episode 2 of the Touring the Holy Land series, Jen talks with historian Stephanie Stidham Rogers about the history of Protestant pilgrimage in Palestine. They discuss the historical context and cultural influences in the 19th century that shaped the phenomenon of Western Christian tourism in Palestine. Stephanie explains how American Protestants viewed the Holy Land as a "frontier" and the role that Orientalism played in shaping their understanding of the land of the Bible and the people who inhabited it.In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Jen and Stephanie discuss more of Stephanie's own journey and the marginalization of research on the Holy Land in the early 2000s . To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with ⁠Peace Catalyst International⁠ to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.You can learn more and register for the March gathering hosted by Telos at telosgroup.org/gathering2025Stephanie Stidham Rogers is an author, independent scholar, humanities expert, and semi-retired University Professor. She resides in both Seattle and Tampa with her husband and family. Stephanie's Published Books:-Inventing the Holy Land : American Protestant pilgrimage to Palestine, 1865-1941 - ⁠https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780739148426/Inventing-the-Holy-Land-American-Protestant-Pilgrimage-to-Palestine-1865%E2%80%931941⁠ -Suffragist Migration West after Seneca Falls, 1848–1871 - ⁠https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B004AO9MNS⁠

In this episode, Jen kicks off the "Touring the Holy Land" series by telling some important stories that are entangled in Holy Land tourism. She takes us back to the dawn of Christian pilgrimage to Palestine in the 4th century CE, and highlights some of the dominant narratives in the American Christian Holy Land tourism industry today. This episode features quotes from some of our listeners who have traveled to Palestine-Israel, and more of their stories will be woven throughout the series.Stay tuned in to the series as we explore the history of Christian tourism in the Holy Land , the role of biblical archaeology, the ways that tourism is shaped by Christian Zionism and the occupation, and the Palestinian and Israeli-led movement of alternative tourism.If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.You can learn more and register for the March gathering hosted by Telos at telosgroup.org/gathering2025

In this episode of theFaith and Activism series, Abeer has a conversation with Amir Toumie about the enduring struggle to reclaim Iqrit—a small Christian village whose residents were forcibly displaced in 1948. They discuss the legal and social fight for the right of return, the unique role of faith in sustaining the community's hope, and how Iqrit has become a powerful symbol of nonviolent resistance, rooted in spiritual and cultural identity.In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Abeer and Amir delve into the unseen sacrifices and emotional costs of activism for Iqrit. They explore the personal and communal impact of this long-standing pursuit of justice and how faith continues to anchor the fight for dignity and return. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠.Amir Toumieis a political and social activist for Palestinian liberation and rights in both the Palestinian communities in 48' and Chicago. He worked as the Director of Government Relations at the Mossawa Center - The Advocacy Center for the Rights of Palestinian Citizens in Israel. As an activist, Amir co-founded and served as president of the Haifa Youth Movement and is a member of the youth movement in his displaced Palestinian village of Iqrit. While engaging in activism in multiple fields, he has earned a Bachelor's Degree in Political Science and Asian Studies from the University of Haifa and a dual Master's Degree in International Relations and Diplomacy from the University of Haifa and the University of Warsaw. Amir is now a 5th-year PhD candidate in Political Science at the University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC) and a board member of Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) at UIC.If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at:https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Show Notes:https://www.zochrot.org/villages/village_details/48985/en?IqritIf you are interested to help Iqrit, or learn more, you can contact Amir at:amirtoumie@gmail.comInstagram: hrh_amirtoumie

For the series finale, Jen Maidrand joins Daniel Bannoura for a live recording where they discuss the series and answer questions from the audience. Apologies for some of the technical difficulties. This was our first livestream, but we'll make sure this won't happen in future streams. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: ⁠https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide⁠  Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠ and⁠ ⁠Instagram⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠

In the episode of the Faith and Activism series, Abeer speaks with Dr. Beth Seversen about her research on Palestinian Christians young adults navigating discrimination and their resilience and sumud. In the extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Beth also shares more about cultural sensitivity in activism. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Beth holds a PhD in Intercultural Studies from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. She has served as Associate Professor of Youth and Christian Ministries at North Park University and Director of Evangelism for the Evangelical Covenant Church. Currently, she serves on the Board of the American Society of Missiology and as Vice President and Associate Editor of the Great Commission Research Network and Journal. She is the author of Not Done Yet: Reaching and Keeping Unchurched Emerging Adults. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel. Show Notes: Beth's book: https://www.amazon.com/Not-Done-Yet-Reaching-Unchurched/dp/0830841571 Beth's Publications: https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ZJtnGnoAAAAJ&hl=en You can learn more and register for the March gathering hosted by Telos at telosgroup.org/gathering2025

In the penultimate episode of our Christian Zionism series, rabbi Brant Rosen discusses his journey out of Jewish Zionism and his thoughts about the war in Gaza. For the rest of the conversation rabbi Rosen discusses Christian Zionism and the harms that he, as a Jewish person and a rabbi, sees in this sort of problematic and harmful Christian support for Jews and Israel. For Patreon supporters, Daniel and rabbi Brant discuss antisemitism and how it has been weaponized to silence and vilify any critique of the actions of the state of Israel at the expense of Palestinians suffering under occupation. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Rabbi Brant is a reconstructionist Jew and the rabbi of Tzedek Chicago synagogue in Chicago. He is a vocal activist for justice and human rights, particularly in Israel/Palestine. After publicly wrestling with his relationship to Israel and openly questioning his lifelong Zionism, he eventually became a prominent Jewish presence in the Palestine solidarity movement and co-founded the Jewish Voice for Peace Rabbinical Council. He has also written numerous essays on antisemitism, Zionism and “reclaiming Judaism from Zionism”, as well as a number of poems about Gaza and the situation in Palestine/Israel. Rabbi Brant Rosen's writings have appeared in many journals and publications, including Newsweek, the Chicago Tribune, the Jewish Forward, Tikkun and Truthout. He is also the author of the popular Jewish social justice blog, Shalom Rav; his curated collection of blog posts and reader comments, Wrestling in the Daylight: A Rabbi's Path to Palestinian Solidarity was published by Just World Books in 2012 (updated in 2017).  Rabbi Brant has contributed essays to a number of anthologies including "Zionism and the Quest for Peace in the Holy Land," "On Antisemitism: Solidarity and the Struggle for Justice," and "Reclaiming Judaism from Zionism: Stories of Personal Transformation." He is also a prolific poet and liturgist whose prayers and poems can be found on his blog Yedid Nefesh. In 2018, Tzedek Chicago published his chapbook of prayers, "Songs After the Revolution: New Jewish Liturgy." If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide  Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Poems read in the episode: El Male Rachamim for Gaza For Gaza: Psalm 126

In this special episode, Daniel has a conversation with Najib George Awad, a Syrian theologian and historian, about the sudden fall of the Assad regime in Syria and the various challenges facing the Syrian people after this “incomplete revolution”. For our Patreon supporters, Najib and Daniel discuss Kalam (Muslim theology) and the rich history of Muslim-Christian debate in the Middle Ages. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Najib George Awad is a Syrian-American theologian and historian. He is an associate researcher at the Center for Comparative Theology and Social issues (CTSI) at Bonn University, Germany, and also at the protestant theological faculty at Charles University in the Czech Republic. His publications God without Face? On the Personal Individuation of the Holy Spirit, And Freedom Became a Public-Square: Political, Sociological and Religious Overviews on the Arab Christians and the Arabic Spring, Orthodoxy in Arabic Terms: A Study of Theodore Abū Qurrah's Trinitarian and Christological Doctrines in an Islamic Context; Umayyad Christianity: John of Damascus as a Contextual Example of Identity-Formation in Early Islam; and After-Mission, Beyond Evangelicalism: The Indigenous ‘Injīliyyūn' in the Arab-Muslim Context of Syria-Lebanon; and Contemporary Arabic Christian Theology (Regnum, 2024). If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Show Notes: Article by Najib Awad about the three challenges facing Syrians today: The Three Challenges for 'Liberated' Syria

We continue our series Christian Zionism, and here Daniel has a conversation with Palestinian theologian John Munayer about the impact of Christian Zionism on Palestinians themselves. John shares about his first encounters with Christian Zionism and how it has also infiltrated into the Palestinian society, particularly through some Palestinian Evangelical pastors and churches.  In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, John shares about his research on Holy Saturday and how he relates this religious practice to the social and political experience of Palestinians. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. John Munayer is a Palestinian theologian from Jerusalem. He is currently pursuing his PhD at the University of Edinburgh and writing about Palestinian theology. John is also managing the academic journal of Palestinian Christianity at the Bethlehem Bible College, which publishes in both Arabic and English. In addition, John is involved in interreligious efforts to promote justice and reconciliation in the Holy Land. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Show Notes: John Munayer and Samuel Munayer's article on “Decolonising Palestinian Liberation Theology: New Methods, Sources and Voices”

In this episode, our three hosts–Abeer, Daniel, and Jen–get together to reflect on one year of podcasting and their experiences as it relates to Israel's genocidal war on Gaza and the ongoing occupation violence throughout Palestine-Israel. They also discuss the meaning of Christmas and its potential to call the church to justice in a time of war, occupation, and violence. This is a serious and fun conversation that gets into everything Christmas from consumerism, to the biblical Christmas story, to cheesy holiday greeting cards. In the extended episode, the hosts are joined by Saleem, Across the Divide's producer, and together they answer a fun round of questions about the Christmas season and themselves. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide  Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Show Notes: The Star Bazaar (the Bethlehem Bible College Gift Shop)Sermon by Jacob Taylor, Advent II (December 8, 2024 at Church of the Advent )

In this conversation, episode seven of the Christian Zionism series, Daniel talks with scholar Brooke Baker about contemporary discursive shifts in Christian Zionism. In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Daniel and Brooke discuss the role that Christian Zionism has played in the last year of Israel's genocidal war on Gaza. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Brooke Baker is a fifth-year doctoral candidate in Islamic Studies at UCLA. Her research interests include Christian-Muslim relations, Islam in the West, and discursive trends surrounding the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, especially as they relate to narrative, identity, and Christian Zionism. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide  Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Show Notes: Naim Ateek, Justice and Only Justice With God on Our Side (documentary) Little Town of Bethlehem (documentary)

In this conversation, Daniel chats with Julie Schumacher Cohen about Catholic peacemaking work in Palestine-Israel. Julie shares about her Israeli Jewish family and the impact that visiting Palestine has had on her identity and faith.  She also discusses how her Catholic faith influences the way she advocates for peace and justice through her work at Churches for Middle East Peace. See also our previous conversation with Jordan Denari Duffner, who co-authored an important article with Julie on Catholic Social Teaching in relation to Palestine-Israel. In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Daniel and Julie discuss President Biden's commitment to Zionism. To access this extended conversation and others, consider⁠ ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠⁠. Julie Schumacher Cohen is a member of the Catholic Advisory Council of Churches for Middle East Peace, having previously served as its deputy director. Julie is also assistant vice president for community engagement and government affairs at the University of Scranton, a Jesuit and Catholic university, where she chairs its community-based learning board, leads its political dialogue initiative, and collaborates with local partners on economic justice, refugee solidarity, and other civic engagement projects. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide  Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Show Notes: Article on Catholic Social Teaching co-authored with Jordan Denari Duffner: https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2024/06/20/catholic-social-teaching-israel-palestine-conflict-248191 Article by Julie about Biden's lack of empathy towards the Palestinians: https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2024/01/25/biden-empathy-palestinians-israel-hamas-247021 Article by Julie about  Fr. Ignacio Ellacuría and the role of Jesuit higher ed in this time of great turmoil in Gaza and Israel-Palestine: https://conversationsmagazine.org/gaza-and-israel-palestine-the-role-of-jesuit-higher-education-in-a-time-of-turmoil-810e1ab89001

In Daniel's conversation with Crystal Silva-McCormick, they discuss the spread of CZ throughout Latin America and the Global South, and Crystal helps us make sense of the reasons for that interest and expansion in poor environments and how the prosperity gospel sometimes goes hand in hand with Christian Zionism. They then discuss how Latina, Latino theology, local expressions and understandings of faith in Latin American can give us some insights about the ways we can respond to Christian Zionism. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide  Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Rev. Dr. Crystal Silva-McCormick is Visiting Assistant Professor of Evangelism and Mission at Austin Presbyterian Seminary. Her teaching focuses on the intersection of Christianity with imperialism and colonialism, particularly as it relates to Euro-American Christian missions. She also researches, which is a main topic of our conversation here, the growing influence of Christian Zionism in Christian communities in Latin America, and especially Guatemala. Tony Tian-Ren Lin, Prosperity Gospel Latinos and Their American Dream https://christiansforafreepalestine.com/

In this episode of Across the Divide, co-host Abeer has a conversation with Dr. Ben Norquist about the pivotal role of higher education in empowering communities within conflict zones, particularly in the Palestinian territories. They discuss how education acts as both resilience and resistance in these high-pressure environments, and explore Ben's involvement with academic initiatives that bridge cultural and political divides. In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Abeer and Ben delve into the themes of Ben's upcoming book, which examines the narratives American Christians hold about land and their impact on social and environmental policies. To access this extended conversation and others, consider supporting us on Patreon. Dr. Ben Norquist is a scholar and director at the Network of Evangelicals for the Middle East and has worked extensively with Churches for Middle East Peace. His research focuses on higher education in conflict zones, particularly within the Palestinian context, exploring the interplay between education and empowerment. Ben is also preparing to publish his book, Every Somewhere Sacred, which discusses the relationship between American Christians and their cultural ties to land, aiming to challenge and inspire new perspectives on justice and environmental stewardship. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Show Notes: To register and learn more about the NEME forum, please visit https://www.neme.network/forum. We at Across the Divide will be there and excited to meet you! Ben's website: https://www.bennorquist.org/ Consider supporting NEME's mission: https://www.neme.network/donate

In episode 5 of our series on Christian Zionism, Daniel Bannoura has a conversation Don Wagner about his journey out of Christian Zionism. Don explains the two kinds of zionisms that he has encountered in his work and discusses theological and biblical critiques of Christian Zionism, primarily through the lenses of settler colonialism and liberation theology. In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Don offers pastoral advice to Christians who feel isolated in how to respond this moment we're in. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠.  Rev. Dr. Don Wagner recently retired as the National Program Director for Friends of Sabeel–North America.  He was a Professor of Middle East Studies and Director of the Center for Middle Eastern Studies at North Park University in Chicago.  He has written several books on Palestinian human rights, Christians in the Middle East, and Christian Zionism, and most recently his memoirs in 2022 “Glory to God in the Lowest: Journeys to an Unholy Land” If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide  Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Show Notes: Christmas Sermon by Rev. Munther Isaac Christianzionism.org

In this special episode, we turn our attention north of Palestine/Israel and reflect on what's happening in Lebanon. Here Daniel Bannoura has a conversation with Marwan Aboul-Zelof, the pastor of City Bible Church in Beirut, Lebanon. Daniel and Marwan discuss the complicated history of Lebanon, its various religious communities, and Hezbollah. Marwan also shares about the current situation in Lebanon and how he has been trying to lead his congregation through this ongoing war.  And for our Patreon supporters, Marwan shares with us some of his thoughts about American exceptionalism and the complicity of the American church with what's currently happening in Gaza and Lebanon. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Marwan Aboul-Zelof is the planting pastor of City Bible Church, an English-speaking church in Beirut, Lebanon. He and his wife, Marci, have been living in the Middle East since 2014. They have two young sons, Noah and Shaya. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide  Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Show Notes: To register and learn more about the NEME Forum, see https://www.neme.network/forum The Furnace of the Lord, Elisabeth Elliot Israeli attacks on Lebanon in maps and charts: Live tracker Marwan's discussion on Zionism and American Exceptionalism on his Instagram page.

In this episode, Daniel has a conversation with educator and New Testament scholar Gary Burge. They unpack the theology of Christian Zionism and the misinterpretation and misuse of the Bible as it relates to the land of Palestine-Israel. Throughout their conversation, they take a close look at biblical stories that present theologies of the land, both in the Hebrew Bible and New Testament. In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Daniel and Gary discuss rapture theology and unpack some of the biblical passages that have been interpreted to shape what have become harmful understandings of "the end times." To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Gary Burge is originally from Southern California and was an undergraduate at the University of California, Riverside, and The American University of Beirut, Lebanon. He attended Fuller Theological Seminary and King's College, The University of Aberdeen, Scotland. In Scotland he studied with I. Howard Marshall earning a Ph.D. in New Testament. He has served on the faculties of King College (Tennessee), North Park University (Illinois), Wheaton College (Illinois), and currently teaches at Calvin Theological Seminary (Michigan). Gary speaks widely in churches and conferences both in the United States and in various countries. He has traveled extensively, particularly in the Middle East. He is ordained in the Presbyterian Church, USA, and served as a military chaplain (USNR). For over 15 years he was a regular teacher at Willow Creek Community Church in S. Barrington, IL. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide  Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Show Notes Whose Land? Whose Promise? What Christians Are Not Being Told about Israel and the Palestinians, Gary Burge Jesus and the Land: The New Testament Challenge to "Holy Land" Theology, Gary Burge

In this episode, Daniel engages in a conversation with Jordan Denari Duffner, a Catholic public theologian, author, and educator. They discuss the work Duffner has been doing since October 7, including a sign-on letter she co-authored from U.S. Catholics on Israel-Palestine. They also delve into another article she co-authored to help Catholics better understand the situation in Gaza, Israel, and Palestine. A significant portion of the discussion is dedicated to Catholic Social Teaching. In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Jordan discusses some of her research on islamophobia and the role it plays in impacting the way people in the West think about Palestine. To access this extended conversation and previous ones, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠.  Jordan Denari Duffner specializes in Muslim-Christian relations, interreligious dialogue, and Islamophobia. She holds a Ph.D. in Theological and Religious Studies from Georgetown University and serves on the Catholic Advisory Council of Churches for Middle East Peace, which advocates for justice for all in Israel-Palestine. She has written two books, Finding Jesus among Muslims: How Loving Islam Makes Me a Better Catholic (2017) and Islamophobia: What Christians Should Know (and Do) about Anti-Muslim Discrimination (2021). In 2023, she was also appointed by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops to the National Catholic-Muslim Dialogue. You can find her writing at her Substack publication, Digging Our Well, follow her on social media, and contact her via JordanDenari.com. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide  Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Show Notes: Catholic sign-on letter with signatures: Sign-On Letter from U.S. Catholics on Israel-Palestine Article on Catholic social teaching and I-P: What should Catholics think about Gaza, Israel and Palestine? Catholic social teaching has answers. | America Magazine Essay on crossing the border: What's in a name? Stories of interrogation at the Israeli border

In episode 3 of our series on Christian Zionism, Daniel Bannoura has a conversation with Daniel Hummel about the history of dispensationalism, its waning influence over Christian Zionism, and the general contours of theological developments and political activism of Christian Zionism since 1948 and until today.  For our Patreon supporters they have an extended conversation about the absence of Palestinians and Palestinian Christians in the thinking and activism of Christian Zionists.To access this extended conversation and previous ones, consider supporting us on Patreon.  Daniel G. Hummel is the director of The Lumen Center in Madison, WI and a research fellow in the History Department at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He is the author of two books Covenant Brothers: Evangelicals, Jews, and U.S.-Israeli Relations and most recently The Rise and Fall of Dispensationalism: How the Evangelical Battle Over the End Times Shaped a Nation. Learn more about Dan here. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide  Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠

Who shall we vote for at the upcoming US elections? Trump, Harris, or a third party candidate? How can one vote for the Democratic party while it has been the main sponsor for the war on Gaza? Tyler Huckabee is a Christian writer who cares deeply about Palestine and about peace and justice in the region, and has decided to vote for Kamala Harris. He's written an article titled Why I'm a Christian for Kamala but not a ‘Christian for Kamala'. Here in this conversation Daniel and Tyler discuss his article and why Tyler decided to vote for Kamala Harris while he has been very critical of the Democratic party. To access the extended cut of this conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Tyler Huckabee is a writer living in Nashville, Tennessee, with his wife and dogs. Read more of his writing at his Substack and every thought that comes into his head on Twitter.  If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide  Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Show Notes: Tyler's Substack Why I'm a Christian for Kamala but not a ‘Christian for Kamala' Other articles by Tyler on Palestine/Israel and Christianity Today: Kamala Harris Is Failing Her First Big Test This Is What We Asked For - by Tyler Huckabee - clusterhuck How Long Will 'Christianity Today' Defend Palestinian Deaths? Mike Cosper, David French and War Crimes The Gospel Coalition Confronts "Queers for Palestine"

In the second episode of our series on Christian Zionism, Daniel Bannoura has a conversation with Rev. Stephen Sizer about the history of dispensationalism and the rise of Christian Zionism in England in the 19th and 20th century and the role they played in shaping British and American attitudes toward the Jewish people and Israel. Stephen also shares some theological insights about the ways Zionist Christians misappropriate the biblical text about the land and people to support their Zionist interpretations. In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Daniel and Stephen try to explain how Christian Zionism is a main driving force for the Christian support for Israel's genocidal war in Gaza. To access this extended conversation and previous ones, consider supporting us on Patreon.  Rev. Dr. Stephen Sizer is the founder and director of Peacemaker Trust, a charity dedicated to peacemaking, especially where minorities are persecuted, justice is denied, human rights are suppressed, or reconciliation is needed. He served for 35 years as an Anglican priest, and is coordinator for the 2024 Sabeel International Conference on Religious Extremism, and is also a member of the Kairos for Global Justice Theology Group.  He is the author of three books, In the Footsteps of Jesus and the Apostles, Christian Zionism: Roadmap to Armageddon and Zion's Christian Soldiers: The Bible, Israel and the Church. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/acrossthedividepodcast/ Show Notes: Here's the ⁠4-page handout⁠ that Stephen referenced in the interview.

In this episode, co-host Abeer engages in a powerful conversation with Alice Kisiya, a Palestinian Christian journalist and fitness trainer. Alice shares her deeply personal journey, focusing on her family's ongoing battle to reclaim their land in Al-Makhrour, near Bethlehem, after it was seized by Israeli settlers with the support of Israeli forces. This episode offers a meaningful perspective on activism, as Alice reflects on the emotional and legal challenges her family has faced. We also explore her efforts to foster solidarity across religious and cultural divides, and how her Christian faith continues to inspire her activism in the face of immense adversity. Join us for an inspiring discussion about resilience, resistance, and the power of peaceful activism as Alice shares her unique perspective on the struggle for justice in Palestine. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a Patreon monthly supporter at: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/acrossthedividepodcast/ Show Notes: For more resources on Al-Makhrour land case, please feel free to visit the following links: Al Makhrour Toolkit: https://ugc.production.linktr.ee/ce1c264f-e09d-4383-a2fa-192a4336e5c9_Save-Al-Makhrour-ToolKit--English-.pdf Save Al-Makhrour Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/savealmakhrour/ Alice's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kisiyaalice?igsh=MTE2MTRwY3IwMjZ5cg== LinkTree with more resources: https://linktr.ee/savealmakhrour

In the inaugural episode of our series on Christian Zionism, Daniel Bannoura has a conversation with Robert O. Smith about the roots of Christian Zionism. Robert traces it back to the Reformation in the 16th century and explores its expansion throughout Europe, Britain, and the United States.  In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Daniel and Robert explore the relevance of this history of Christian Zionism to us today and how much that history repeats itself today. To access this extended conversation and previous ones, consider supporting us on Patreon.  Robert O. Smith is a citizen of the Chickasaw Nation and assistant professor of history at the University of North Texas, and an advisor on Jerusalem affairs to the Royal Court of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan. He is also the author of the book More Desired than Our Owne Salvation: The Roots of Christian Zionism. Consider supporting Across the Divide podcast on ⁠⁠⁠Patreon⁠⁠⁠ for extra content and perks. Follow Across the Divide on ⁠YouTube⁠ and Instagram ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Show Notes: Robert O. Smith, More Desired than Our Owne Salvation: The Roots of Christian Zionism Marc Ellis, Towards a Jewish Theology of Liberation

We're exited to launch a new 10-episode limited series on Christian Zionism. Daniel Bannoura is the host of the series and will be having conversations with historians, theologians, and pastors exploring the history, theologies, and political activism of Christian Zionism. Here Daniel unpack the complicated legacy of Christian Zionism and its harmful ideologies that have played a significant role in impacting the way Christians think about Jewish people and the Palestinians. Consider supporting our work on Patreon and get access to extra content and more: https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Also, check out our Youtube channel to watch the video of these episodes, and subscribe!

This is the final episode in our Christ at the Checkpoint. It it, co-hosts Daniel and Jen discuss their highlights from the series and answer listener questions. They share more about their journeys as they relate to Christ at the Checkpoint, and they dig into important topics related to Christian Zionism, biblical interpretation, the witness of Palestinian Christians, education in pro-Israel churches, and how we do the work of calling the church to act in response to genocide in Gaza with love. Despite the heavy topics they cover, Jen & Daniel have a lot of fun with this conversation. It's one you don't want to miss! We also provide an extended interview from this conversation for our Patreon supporters. Consider supporting us at ⁠⁠Patreon⁠⁠ for extra content and perks. Follow Across the Divide on YouTube and Instagram ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Show Notes Daniel's Christ at the Checkpoint talk A dossier on Israeli Apartheid: A Pressing Call to Churches Around the World Tent of Nations Mennonite Action Christians for a Free Palestine Gaza Ceasefire Pilgrimages Telos Network of Evangelicals for the Middle East Daniel's Palestine-Israel Resource doc

This episode in our Christ at the Checkpoint Series features Shireen Awwad Hilal, Palestinian Christian community developer and peace activist. At CATC she gave a presentation titled “Witness for Justice in Action [in Genocide]." In this episode, clips from her presentation are interwoven with her conversation with Abeer about the challenges of confronting historical truths and how these truths are often contested, even within the global faith community. Shireen shares deeply personal stories from Gaza, reflecting on how witnessing these events has further shaped her advocacy. Shireen is the Director of community and Development at the Bethlehem Bible College and also an instructor at the College. Shireen is also a peace activist, a woman group leader and consultant for many years. We also provide an extended interview from this conversation for our Patreon supporters. Consider supporting us at ⁠Patreon⁠ for extra content and perks. Follow Across the Divide on YouTube and Instagram ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Show Notes Shepherd Society Bethlehem Bible College Shireen's reflection on meeting with His Holiness Pope Francis

This episode in our Christ at the Checkpoint Series features Anton Deik, a Palestinian biblical scholar from Bethlehem. At CATC he gave a presentation titled “Missiology After Gaza: Christian Zionism, God's Image, and the Gospel." In this episode, clips from his presentation are interwoven with her conversation with Daniel about Christian Zionist support for Israel and how it negatively harms the witness and mission of the church. We also provide an extended interview from this conversation for our Patreon supporters. Consider supporting us at Patreon for extra content and perks. Follow Across the Divide on YouTube and Instagram ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠ Show Notes Previous Across the Divide episode with Anton: "Social Justice and Evangelism". "A Call for Repentance". Daniel Bannoura's Christ at the Checkpoint talk. Russell Moore, "American Christians Should Stand with Israel Under Attack".

This episode in our Christ at the Checkpoint Series features René August, South African priest, leader, and activist. At CATC she gave a presentation titled “Decolonizing the Ways We Read the Bible." In this episode, clips from her presentation are interwoven with her conversation with Jen about God's movement of power in Scripture and tools for reading the Bible with a decolonizing hermeneutic. They also explore liberative ways of reading the Bible in relation to justice work in Palestine. Reverend René August is strategist, thought leader, disciple maker, speaker, author, co-conspirator, trainer, reconciler and friend. She grew up in Cape Town “under apartheid, in a Christian family, with brown skin”. She's spent her life developing a love of scripture, exploring power and privilege, learning from others, and wrestling with the questions that arise along the way. In a world crammed with diverse perspectives, where certain voices are amplified and others silenced, René extends a gracious invitation to consider the lenses through which we're looking at scripture – and each other. We also provide an extended interview from this conversation for our Patreon supporters. Consider supporting us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠  / acrossthedivide⁠⁠  ⁠⁠ for extra content and perks. Follow Across the Divide on Youtube and Instagram ⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠ ⁠⁠  / acrossthedividepodcast  

This episode in our Christ at the Checkpoint series features Lamma Mansour, Palestinian Christian scholar. At CATC she gave a presentation titled “Still, Hope." In this episode, clips from her presentation are interwoven with her conversation with Abeer about the role of faith and hope in times of oppression. They also explore the role of the church's prophetic voice in confronting injustices and the commitment required for Christian discipleship. Dr. Lamma Mansour is a Palestinian Christian from Nazareth. She received her doctorate in Social Policy and Intervention from the University of Oxford. Her doctoral research focused on the experiences of Arab Palestinian undergraduate students in Israeli higher education. Lamma has also been involved in research projects focusing on other groups within Palestinian Arab society in Israel (e.g., young women, and social workers). We also provide an extended interview from this conversation for our Patreon supporters. Consider supporting us at ⁠⁠⁠  / acrossthedivide⁠⁠  ⁠ for extra content and perks. Follow Across the Divide on Youtube and Instagram ⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠ ⁠  / acrossthedividepodcast  

In episode 4 of our Christ at the Checkpoint series we host author and activist Lisa Sharon Harper. At CATC she gave a presentation titled “Four Words that Change Everything." Here clips from Lisa's presentation are interwoven with a conversation with Daniel dissecting the 4 words and their application to the Palestinian and black experience in the U.S. We also provide an extended interview from this conversation for our Patreon supporters. Consider supporting us at patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide for extra content and perks. Watch the video of this episode on our Youtube channel, and follow Across the Divide on and Instagram

This episode in our Christ at the Checkpoint series features Shane Claiborne, renowned Christian activist and author. At CATC he gave a presentation titled “Good Trouble on Good Friday." In this episode, clips from his presentation are interwoven with his conversation with Jen about taking our faith to the streets and resisting violence with love. Shane Claiborne is a prominent speaker, activist, and best-selling author.  Shane worked with Mother Teresa in Calcutta, and founded The Simple Way in Philadelphia. He heads up Red Letter Christians, a movement of folks who are committed to living "as if Jesus meant the things he said." Shane is a champion for grace which has led him to jail advocating for the homeless, and to places like Iraq and Afghanistan to stand against war. Now grace fuels his passion to end the death penalty and help stop gun violence. Shane's books include Jesus for President, Red Letter Revolution, Common Prayer, Follow Me to Freedom, Jesus, Bombs and Ice Cream, Becoming the Answer to Our Prayers, Executing Grace, his classic The Irresistible Revolution, Beating Guns, and his newest book, Rethinking Life. He has been featured in a number of films and news outlets, and In 2023, Shane received the prestigious The King Center's Beloved Community Award for Social Justice from Dr. Bernice King (daughter of Martin Luther King Jr. and Coretta Scott King). Shane speaks regularly at denominational gatherings, festivals, and conferences around the globe.  We also provide an extended interview from this conversation for our Patreon supporters. Consider supporting us at ⁠⁠  / acrossthedivide⁠⁠   for extra content and perks. Follow Across the Divide on Youtube and Instagram ‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬   / acrossthedividepodcast   Show Notes Learn more about Shane's work at www.shaneclaiborne.com  Common Prayer, Shane Claiborne The Prophetic Imagination, Walter Bruegemann The Other Side of the Wall, Munther Isaac “Good Trouble on Good Friday,” Shane Claiborne (Good Friday demonstration at Lockheed Martin) Sharing Communion at the U.S.-Mexico border wall Tent of Nations (Palestinian Christian peacebuilding organization)

The second episode in this special Christ at the Checkpoint series features Ruth Padilla DeBorst, Latin American theologian and teacher. At CATC she gave a presentation titled “The Mission of the Church in Contexts of Oppression." In this episode we play clips from her presentation, and Daniel asks a few questions about some of the key issues she addresses in her talk. Ruth Padilla DeBorst is a theologian, missiologist, educator, and story-teller, Ruth Padilla DeBorst has been involved in theological formation for integral mission in her native Latin America and beyond for several decades. She teaches at Western Theological Seminary. Along with her husband, James, she lives in Costa Rica as a member of Casa Adobe, an intentional Christian Community with deep concern for right living in relation to the whole of creation. Her studies include a Bachelors in Education (Argentina), an MA in Interdisciplinary Studies (Wheaton College), and a PhD in Theology (Boston University). We also provide an extended interview from this conversation for our Patreon supporters. Consider supporting us at ⁠https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide⁠ for extra content and perks. Follow Across the Divide on YouTube and Instagram @AcrosstheDividePodcast

We start this special mini-series on Christ at the Checkpoint with Fares Abraham, a Christian Palestinian American and CEO of Levant Ministries. At CATC he gave a presentation titled “A Christ-Centered response to what's happening in Gaza”. In this episode we play clips from his presentation, and Daniel asks him a few questions about some of the issues he brought up. We also provide an extended interview for our Patreon supporters. Consider supporting us at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide for extra content and perks. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/acrossthedivide/message

We're excited to bring you this special series of 7 episodes that features talks and in-depth interviews with international and Palestinian theologians and speakers who spoke at the renown "Christ at the Checkpoint" conference, which was held at Bethlehem Bible College this past May. We will also be providing extended interviews with the speakers that will only be available to our Patreon members. Please consider supporting and sustaining our work by becoming one of our patrons at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide The theme of this year's conference was “Christian Witness in Contexts of Oppression” and focused on Christian response and responsibility to genocide in Gaza. "Christ at the Checkpoint" is an open invitation to Christians all over the world, but especially in the West, to meet and be in dialogue with Palestinian Christians, unlearn destructive theologies of Christian Zionism, and explore pathways for solidarity with the Palestinian people. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/acrossthedivide/message

In this episode, co-host Abeer engages in a profound conversation with Walid Mosarsaa, a Palestinian Quaker based in Greensboro, NC. With a rich background in both business and religion, and currently pursuing an MBA, Walid brings a unique perspective to our discussion. This episode offers a deep dive into the role of faith in shaping personal and collective identities, highlighting the struggles and aspirations of Palestinian Christians today and focuses on the Palestinian identity of Jesus. Join us for a compelling exploration of faith, heritage, and identity, where Walid provides a unique perspective on navigating the complexities of history and belief in the quest for justice and understanding. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a monthly supporter at: https://ko-fi.com/acrossthedividepodcast Follow Across the Divide on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/acrossthedividepodcast/ Show Notes: "What Does it Mean to Say 'Jesus is Palestinian' ?" Walid Mosarsaa, Sojourners --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/acrossthedivide/message

Jen has a conversation with Kevin Vollrath, an American Christian living in Bethlehem. Kevin shares about his experience living in the West Bank for the past three years and how he's seen violence against Palestinians rise since October 7th, 2023. They also discuss disability in the context of the Israeli occupation, and unpack the acute threats and violence wielded against Palestinians living in refugee camps in the West Bank. Kevin also reflects on how his experiences in Palestine have shaped his faith and the calling he feels to continue living there.  Kevin Vollrath is a PhD Candidate at Princeton Theological Seminary. He researches how churches can better care for and empower people with disabilities, and his dissertation focuses on the relationship between the Israeli occupation of Palestine and intellectual disability. Kevin lives in the occupied West Bank and teaches at Bethlehem University. Resources Crowded West Bank refugee camp is the most tear-gassed place in the world, Mondoweiss The Right to Maim: Debility, Capacity, Disability by Jasbir Puar --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/acrossthedivide/message

In this episode, co-host Abeer has a conversation with Courtney Reeve, a Canadian doctoral student at Durham University, UK, currently residing in the Occupied West Bank to conduct her research with Musalaha, a faith-based organization. They explore a range of topics, including Courtney's firsthand experiences during and after October 7th, her deep insights into the trauma faced by Palestinians, and pathways to reconciliation in Palestine rooted in faith and biblical context. They delve into her pivotal research, "Divine Encounters Amidst War and Occupation: An Immersive Theological Ethnography of Reconciliation Practice at Musalaha," and discuss her impactful work with the organization. Additionally, Abeer and Courtney examine the influential role of film and cinema as educational tools about the ongoing situation in Palestine. This episode offers a unique personal perspective that resonates deeply with the challenges and hopes of those on the ground. Don't miss this compelling and insightful discussion that shines a light on personal stories and professional studies in the quest for understanding and peace. Courtney Reeve has been living in Bethlehem (Beit Jala and now Beit Sahour) for almost two years. After meeting the founder of faith-based reconciliation organisation, Musalaha, in 2011 and maintaining contact throughout the years, Courtney chose to move to the Occupied West Bank to conduct her doctoral research from Durham University in the United Kingdom. With previous work as an Assistant Pastor at a Toronto-based church, Courtney is interested in the formational of people who choose the work of reconciliation across the fraught context of normalisation and 'over-politicisation.' Courtney is Canadian but has spent many years living abroad including Indonesia, the US, England, and now Palestine. She loves talking theology as much as she loves talking about film and cinema! If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a monthly supporter at:⁠https://ko-fi.com/acrossthedividepodcast⁠Follow Across the Divide on Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/acrossthedividepodcast/ Show Notes https://musalaha.org/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/acrossthedivide/message

In this episode Daniel has a conversation with Thandi Gamedze, a South African poet and educator. They discuss the Kairos Document, which was released by South African theologians in 1985 in response to the theologies of violence and discrimination by the apartheid state and South African church. They also reflect on the impact of that document and its relationship to the Kairos Palestine document, which was released in 2009. In this episode, Thandi recites some of her beautiful poetry that interweaves biblical language with the demands for justice in South Africa and Palestine. You don't want to miss this episode! Thandi Gamedze is a South African educator, a writer, and a poet. She works across churches, universities, and NGOs in South Africa, and is driven by a deep commitment to critique and reimagine a world that is just, nurturing, and kind. Here are the Kairos document and the Kairos Palestine document. We highly encourage you to read these two important documents. If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a monthly supporter at:⁠⁠ ⁠⁠https://ko-fi.com/acrossthedividepodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Across the Divide on Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/acrossthedividepodcast/⁠⁠⁠⁠ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/acrossthedivide/message

In this episode, Daniel has a conversation with Mennonite pastor Amy Yoder McGloughlin. They discuss the history of the Mennonite church, and the role that Mennonite theology plays in shaping her advocacy and peace work in Palestine-Israel.  Amy Yoder McGloughlin is a Mennonite pastor living in Chester County, Pennsylvania, on the traditional lands of the Lenape people. She received her theological training at Lutheran Theological Seminary at Philadelphia, now known as United Lutheran Seminary. Amy has been actively involved in Community Peacemaker Teams in the West Bank since 2013, and with Mennonite Action since it began in November of 2023. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/acrossthedivide/message

In this episode, co-host Jen has a conversation with writer, educator, and activist Azmera Hammouri-Davis. This conversation explores the harms of Christian nationalism and theologies of supremacy, and delves into the scriptures that call us to enact justice and love. Azmera shares about her intersecting identities as a Black Palestinian Christian, poet, and musician, and the ways her faith has shaped her journey of being in solidarity with Palestinians and heeding what Palestinian Christians are calling the Western church to live out. Azmera Hammouri-Davis, M.T.S is a faith-based writer, poet/MC, educator and independent scholar-practitioner from Kea'au, Hawai'i. She is the proud daughter of a Palestinian-American mother and Black German father and has been teaching and learning the Afro-Brazilian martial art of Capoeira for over fifteen years. She is an organizer with the Black Christians for Palestine Network, is a Samuel Dewitt Proctor Conference MICAH Ministry Fellow, and founder of Transition Turn Up, a coaching & consulting company that helps  people expand their capacity to experience love, joy and healing even amidst life's difficult turns. In 2016, she founded  Break The Boxes, a popular education organization committed to raising critical consciousness by centering creative expression, and wisdom across faith traditions and generations. She holds a Master of Theological Studies in African/American Religions from Harvard Divinity School and a dual B.A. in Visual & Performing Arts and Social Sciences Psychology from the University of Southern California. You can learn more about Azmera on her website and follow her on Instagram @azmerarhymes If you enjoy our podcast, please consider becoming a monthly supporter at:⁠ ⁠⁠https://ko-fi.com/acrossthedividepodcast⁠⁠⁠ Follow Across the Divide on Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/acrossthedividepodcast/⁠⁠⁠⁠ Notes Black Christians for Palestine Lenten Series with Freedom Church of the Poor US Campaign for Palestinian Rights Christianzionism.org --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/acrossthedivide/message

In this episode we hear from father David Neuhaus a Jewish-background South African Jesuit priest who is also an Israeli citizen. Fr. Nauhaus shared with us his background of growing up as a Jew in apartheid-era South Africa, and his journey moving to Israel and being transformed by his encounters with both Israelis and Palestinians. This is a very insightful and powerful conversation that you don't want to miss!  Fr. David Neuhaus, S.J.,  is a Jesuit priest who teaches Scripture in Israel and Palestine. He has been a long-term member of the Holy Land Catholic Church's Justice and Peace Commission. From 2009 until 2017, he was Patriarchal Vicar for Hebrew-speaking and migrant Catholics in the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem. Born in South Africa of Jewish German parents during the apartheid era, he has lived most of his life in Israel and is an Israeli citizen.    Article: As war begins again in Holy Land, Jesuit David Neuhaus hopes Christians can be instruments of peace | America Magazine --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/acrossthedivide/message

In this episode, Jen has a conversation with Palestinian Christian scholar Lamma Mansour. This episode delves into the practice of lament--exploring the importance of lament in the Church, how we can lament the ongoing genocide in Gaza, and why it is often difficult for the Western Church to lament. Lamma also shares about her experience as a Palestinian with Israeli citizenship and about her research on the discrimination Palestinian Arabs face in Israeli higher education. Lamma Mansour is a Palestinian Christian from Nazareth. She is currently pursuing her doctorate in Social Policy and Intervention at the University of Oxford. Her doctoral research focuses on the experiences of Arab Palestinian undergraduate students in Israeli higher education. Lamma has also been involved in research projects focusing on other groups within Palestinian Arab society in Israel (e.g., young women, and social workers). Show Notes: “Stop! Make space for lament,” Lamma Mansour (Come and See article, 2021) “Being our neighbour's keeper by lamenting injustice: a Palestinian Christian reflection,” Lamma Mansour (Christ at the Checkpoint lecture, 2022) “A prayer of lament and hope,” Lamma Mansour (Recorded Devotional, 2023) “Palestinian Arab undergraduate students' transition to Israeli higher education: a mixed methods study, Lamma Mansour” (journal article, 2024) Haaretz article on Palestinian singer, Dalal Abu Amneh (2024) --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/acrossthedivide/message

In this episode, Daniel and Jen have a conversation with Anton Deik, a Palestinian Bible scholar, about the biblical understanding of justice and its relationship to mission and evangelism. Anton challenges the prevailing understanding among some Christians that social and political issues are not part of the gospel, and provides a compelling biblical case for the interconnectedness of justice with faith and spirituality, particularly through the ministry of Christ and the Great Commission.  Anton Deik is a Palestinian Christian from Bethlehem, and is a member of the networking team and board of directors of the International Fellowship for Mission as Transformation, lecturer in Biblical Studies with Bethlehem Bible College, and research associate with the Centre for the Study of Bible and Violence in the United Kingdom. He is currently a PhD candidate at the University of Aberdeen where he researches biblical and Graeco-Roman conceptions of justice. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/acrossthedivide/message