Podcasts about palestine israel

Renowned Palestinian theologian Rev. Mitri Raheb and theologian Graham McGeoch join us for a sobering conversation about the reality we live in “After Gaza”. We particularly reflect on their recent edited volume “Theology After Gaza” that analyzes how theology has been misused to justify oppression in Israel's war on Gaza, countering it with liberation theologies centered on justice and truth where Gaza serves as a crisis point for Western theology, Zionism, and modernity.Rev. Dr. Mitri Raheb is the Founder and President of Dar al-Kalima University in Bethlehem and widely recognized as the most prolific Palestinian theologian to date. A social entrepreneur and elected member of the Palestinian National Council, he previously served as the senior pastor of the Christmas Lutheran Church in Bethlehem from 1987 to 2017. Dr. Raheb has authored or edited 50 books, including Decolonizing Palestine and Faith in the Face of Empire, with his works translated into thirteen languages. His extensive contributions to theology, peace, and culture have garnered significant international recognition, including the Olof Palme Prize, the German Media Prize, and the Aachen Peace Award.Rev. Graham McGeoch is a theologian, Church of Scotland minister, and scholar specializing in liberation theology, ecumenism, and World Christianity. He currently serves as the Mission Secretary for Discipleship and Dialogue at the Council for World Mission (CWM). Additionally, he is a professor of Theology and Religious Studies at the Faculdade Unida de Vitória (UNIDA) in Brazil and a research associate at the University of Pretoria in South Africa. His most recent major publication is Theology After Gaza: A Global Anthology (2025), which he co-edited with Palestinian theologian Mitri Raheb. His other recent works include World Christianity and Ecological Theologies (2024) and Teologia da Libertação na América Latina: novas sementes de inquietação (2024). Become a monthly supporter of Across the Divide on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide for more on ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.#israel #palestine #gaza #christianity #bible #faith #zionism

Gissele: [00:00:00] was Martin Luther King, Jr. Wright, does love have the power to transform an enemy into a friend. We’re currently working on a documentary showcasing people doing extraordinary things such as loving. Those who are most hurtful in this documentary will showcase extraordinary stories of forgiveness, reconciliation, and transformation. You’d like to find out more about our documentary, www M-A-I-T-R-I-C-E-N-T-R-E com slash documentary. Hello and welcome to the Love and Compassion Podcast with Gissele. We believe that love and compassion have the power to heal our lives and our world. Don’t forget to like and subscribe for more amazing content. Today we’re talking with Larry Rosen about whether enemies can come together in dialogue. Larry is the founder of a mediation law practice. Through understanding he has helped thousands craft enduring solutions to [00:01:00] crippling conflicts, millions have watched this popular TEDx talk with secret understanding humans whose insights informs the enemy’s project. From 2024, Larry completed writing the novel, the Enemy Dance, posing the question, must the society riven by tribalism descend into war or can it heal itself? Larry is a graduate of UCLA School of Law, where he served as editor of the Law Review and received numerous academic awards. Growing up, Larry was both the bully and the bullied. The one who was cruel and the one who was kind, he was sometimes popular. And sometimes friendless. He had many fist fights with kids who became his friends. He had his very own chair at the principal’s office. He believes that his peacemaking today is born out of the callousness and empathy that he knew as childhood. [00:02:00] Please join me in welcoming Larry. Hi, Larry. Larry: Hi there. That, it’s funny because that la last piece that you read about my, you know, the, the principal’s office that’s on my website, I’ve never had someone read that back to me and it brought me a little bit to tears, like, oh, that poor kid. Yeah, I, I don’t hear that very often. So anyway, Gissele: yeah. Oh, I really loved it when I saw it, and I could relate to it because I’ve also been both. when we hurt other people, we wanna be forgiven, but when people hurt us, you don’t always wanna forgive, right? Mm-hmm. So it gives you the different perspective. I’m so thrilled to have you on the show. And how I actually came to know about your project is, so I’m a professor at a university and I teach research and ethics. And, what I had discovered about my students is that many of them don’t come with the ability to do the critical thinking, to be able to hold both sides. Many of them come thinking there’s gotta be a right answer, and there’s a right way of doing things. Just tell us what the answer is. [00:03:00] And so for my students, I get them to write a paper where they tell me the things they feel really strongly about. Then they’re researching the opposing perspective using credible sources. because trolls are easy to dismiss, right? So credible sources, the opposing perspective, and then they are supposed to, so tell me what are their main points? You know, like why do they believe what they do? And and are you really that different? Right? And then the last part of the paper is. Talk about the emotions you feel and throughout the year I prepare them in terms of being able to handle it. So I teach them mindfulness, I teach them self-compassion so that they can hold because it’s really difficult to hold posing perspective. What? It’s research and ethics. I do it for my, ’cause one of my research interests is compassion. And so, and I was a director of one of the departments I had was hr. And what I noticed was when people had conflict, it was the inability to regulate themselves, to sit in a [00:04:00] conversation that prevented them from going anywhere. And so what I do in my classes, like I’ll do like a minute, like maybe five minutes, three minutes, right before the start of class, I’ll teach mindfulness or like a self-compassion practice and we talk about it all year. And then at the end of the year they’ll do a, a paper where they do the opposing perspective. Then at the end they talk about the emotions they feel. So, and, and they can do that through music. They could do that through a photograph. They could do that through an art project or they just use text. They say, oh, I felt this. I felt that. And so it was in my students researching for their papers that they encountered your project. And they were blown away. They were so, so happy about it. And I like, I’ve watched the episodes. They were amazing . And so that’s why I wanted to have you on the show. And so I was wondering if you could start by telling the audience a little bit about the Enemies project and how you got inspired to do this work. Larry: So the Enemies Project is a [00:05:00] docuseries where I bring together people who are essentially enemies, people of really dramatically different viewpoints, who pretty much don’t like each other. And so an example is a trans woman and a, a woman who is maga who believes trans people belong to mental institutions a Palestinian and a Zionist Jew and, and lots of other combinations. And the goal is not to debate. There are lots of places where you can see debates and I allow them to argue it out for a few minutes to, to show what doesn’t work. And then I bring them through kind of a different process where they. Understand each other deeply, which basically means live in each other’s viewpoint, really ultimately be able to, like you’re trying to do in your class as well. Have them express each other’s viewpoint. And that is a transforming process for them. Usually when they do it in each other’s presence. And it, you know, it has hiccups which is part of the process, but it goes really [00:06:00] deep. And so ultimately these people who hate each other end up almost always saying, I really admire you. I like you. I would be your friend. And sometimes they say, I love you. And usually they hug and there’s deep affection for each other at the end. And they’re saying to the camera or to, you know, their viewers, like, please be kind to this person. This person’s now my friend. And that is for me important because. Like you probably, and probably most of your listeners, I’m tired of what’s happening in society. I am tired of being manipulated. I think we’re all being manipulated by what I call enemy makers. People who profit from division financially, politically they’re usually political leaders and media leaders. And we’re all being taken. And the big lie at the center of it is that people on the other side, ordinary people on the other side are bad or evil. That’s the, the dark heart lie at the [00:07:00] center of it. And if we believe that we’ll follow these leaders, we’ll follow them because we all want to defeat evil. We all must defeat evil. And so what I’m trying to do in this project is unravel that lie by showing that people on the other side are just us. Yeah. And they too have been manipulated and we’ve been manipulated. So and it’s gone well, it’s gone really well. You know, there have been, we’ve been, we’ve done eight or nine episodes and we have in various forms of media, been seen tens of millions of times in the last five months. And we have, I think, 175,000 followers on different media. And the comments are just really, from my perspective, surprisingly, kind of off the chart powerful. Like this has changed tens of thousands of comments of just this is, this is in. Sometimes I’ve, I cried throughout or it’s actually changed my life. I see people differently. So it’s, it is been really, it’s really great to have that feedback and, and then we have plans for the future, which I can tell you [00:08:00] about later. But yeah, but that’s, that’s the basic background. The reason I got into it I don’t know if you have kids, but for me, kids are the great motivator. You know, the next generation, probably people who don’t have kids also are motivated for the next generation as well. We, I care deeply about what I’m leaving my kids and other people’s kids, you know, they all touch my heart and I, I feel really terrible about the mess we’re believing them in, and I feel terrible about what humanity is inheriting. And so I want to have an influence on that. Gissele: Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things I love about your docuseries is that the intent isn’t to change anyone’s mind. The intent is for people to feel heard and seen, and that is so, so powerful. It makes me think of Daryl Davis about how he went. Do you know the story of Daryl Davis? I don’t like jazz musician. So he’s a black jazz musician who when, since he was little, he wondered why people were racist. So what he did was actually go [00:09:00] to KKK rallies and speak to KKK leaders. Yeah, Larry: I have heard, yeah. Gissele: Yeah. He didn’t mean to change anyone. He just wanted to offer them respect, which you, as you say, is fundamental and just wanted to understand. And in that understanding, he created those conditions too that led people to change . And so I think that’s the same thing that your docuseries is offering. Larry: Absolutely. I mean, you can see it so easily that Yeah, as soon as one person hears the other person, the person who was heard is the one who changes. you don’t change the other person by telling them your story and by convincing them of anything. It’s when you hear them and hear what their true intention has been and what’s going on in their life, that’s when they change. It’s the fastest road to their change really. But if you go in with that objective, then they won’t change. So there’s kind of a, you know, an irony or a paradox embedded in this, but usually both people move [00:10:00] toward each other, is what happens. Yeah. Gissele: I want the audience to understand how brilliant this is because, I don’t know if you know Deeyah Khan, she’s a documentarian and she interviewed people from the KKK And one of the things we noticed in all those interviews was that many people hate others. They’re people that they’ve never met. They’ve never met people in that group, but they hate them. So, Larry: yeah, that’s, that’s really interesting just to hear that. Yeah. Gissele: Yeah. So how does the Enemies project help challenge misconceptions about groups that have never met each other, carry beliefs about the other? Larry: Well, so far really hasn’t because everybody who we’ve done a show with has met people from the other side. Gissele: Oh, Larry: okay. You know, it’s not like because thus far with the, with I think one or two exceptions, everyone’s been an American. So in, in the United States, everybody’s gonna meet somebody else. they’re not friends with them, they’re not deeply connected with them. But from my perspective it, it doesn’t [00:11:00] matter. You know, you can be from the most different tribes who’ve never met each other, we’re all gonna be the same. the process never differs. we don’t start with politics. My view is that starting with politics, which is how some, some people who try to bring others together to find common ground, start with politics, and that’s not going to work. What I start with is rapport. You know, as soon as you start with something that a person is defensive over, you’re gonna put up, they’re gonna be wearing armor, and they’re going to try to defeat the other person. So we exit that process and we really just help them understand what’s beautiful in each other’s lives, what’s challenging in each other’s lives, and they, there’s no question that as soon as you see what’s beautiful in someone else’s life or challenging, you’re gonna identify with it because you’re gonna have very similar points of beauty and challenge yourself. And then we fold. Politics into it about why politics really are important [00:12:00] to the other person. And we do it in a way where it’s a true exploration. And once that happens, people connect deeply. so it doesn’t matter from, in my experience, how different the people are, how extreme the people are. you’re going to be able to bring them together, you know? And so if they haven’t met each other, it’s really interesting what you said that people hate, people a haven’t met, which is like a, such a obvious statement. And it is really profound just to hear that, like, it’s so absurd. Yeah, and I would say that in my experience, the most profound or the deepest sessions are with people who are really dramatically surprised that the other person’s a human being. So if they, if they haven’t met each other, if they haven’t met someone like that, it’s gonna be an easy one. Yeah. ’cause because the shock is gonna be [00:13:00] so huge. Speaker 4: Mm-hmm. And Larry: so, and so full, it’s when the people have had experiences with the other side that it’s, that it is, it’s still powerful, but it can be a little bit more intellectual than, than in the heart because when you’re shocked by someone’s humanity, because you couldn’t imagine it at all, it, it really crushes your thoughts about them. Gissele: What I love about the process is that that’s the part you really focus on. You masterfully, are able to get people to really get to the root of their humanity and make that connection and then reengage in the dialogue , which is, is amazing. So who individuals selected and what’s support needs to happen before they can engage in the dialogue? And I ask that because each individual has to be able to hold the discussion. Because sometimes it’s, sometimes it can feel so hurtful, and I’m thinking in particular, even Nancy. So they’ve gotta be able to regulate enough to stay in the dialogue. Otherwise, what [00:14:00] I have seen is people will eject, they’ll fight, they’ll just kind of flee. So what preparation needs to happen and how do you select people? Larry: So on the selection front, it’s different now than when I started, you know, when I started filming about a year ago, I didn’t have any choices. You know, it wasn’t like anyone knew who I was or they had seen my shows, so I would go, I would live in the Bay Area and it’s really hard to find conservatives in the Bay Area, but all the conservatives in, in the San Francisco Bay Area congregate, they have like clubs. Mm-hmm. And so I would go on hikes with, in conservative clubs and I would speak to them and I just would try to find people who were interested. There were no criteria beyond that. Now, having said that, it’s not entirely true. I did interview some people who I just were like, they’re two intellectual, they just wanted to talk about economic issues or stuff, something like that. and then for liberals, it was actually harder, [00:15:00] believe it or not, to find people in the Bay Area who wanted to participate. I could find tons of liberals and progressives, but they had zero interest in speaking to a conservative person. And I wasn’t sure if that was a Bay Area phenomena, because liberals are so much in the majority, they don’t really care to speak to the other side, whereas the other side wants to be heard, or whether that’s a progressive kind of liberal thing. I have my views that have developed over time, but it was hard to find liberal people. And so really at the beginning it was just people who were willing to do it. There weren’t criteria beyond that. At this point, you know we’ve received some that people know what we’re doing and people want to be on the show and we receive applications and my daughter. Who runs this with me, my daughter Sadie, who’s 20 years old and in college. She is the person who finds people now, and you might have seen the episode a white cop and a black activist. I don’t know if you’ve seen that one, but, you know, she found those two people and they were [00:16:00] great. And the way she found them is she searched the map on the internet. It’s a little different now because by searching people on the internet, we find people who have a little bit of an audience. Mm. And that could be a bit of a problem. But it’s also like so much less time consuming for us. And so. You know, if we had a lot of money, we would spend more money on casting, but we don’t, and so mm-hmm. But we were able to find pretty good people. I’d say the main criteria for me, in addition to them having to have some passion about this, this particular show that they’re on, whether it’s about abortion or Israel, Gaza, the main criteria for me that’s developed is, do I want to hang out with this person? Because if I do, if the person, not whether they’re nice. Okay. Not whether they’re kind. That’s not it. I want them to have passion and I want to like them personally, because if I, it’s not that I don’t like the, some of the people, I like them all, but I don’t [00:17:00] want to hang out with them. If I do, it’s gonna be a great show because I know that they’re gonna be dynamic people and that their passion will flip. they’re gonna connect in some way and people who are really cordial and kind, they’re not, they’re not going to connect as deeply. The transformation’s not going to be as powerful for them or for the audience. Gissele: Hmm. Really interesting. I wanna touch base on something you said, you know, like that most people listen to debate. And I like Valerie Kaur’s perspective, which is to listen, to understand is to be willing to change your mind and heart. And I also like what you said, which is listening is to love someone. Can you explain what you mean by that? Larry: I think it more is the, it’s received as love than it, than necessarily it’s given as love. It doesn’t mean that you love the other person when you’re listening, but all of us, I would say if we think of the people [00:18:00] that we believe love us the most, they get us. Yeah. We receive it that way and, and they don’t judge us. And so when an enemy does that for you, the thought that they are a bad person melts away. Because if somebody loves us, and that’s the way it’s received, it’s not really an intellectual thing, we just receive it that way. They can’t be a bad person. Like somebody who loves me cannot be a bad person. And so it’s probably the most powerful thing that you can do to flip the feeling of the other side, is to listen to them, not to convince them of anything and to listen to them with curiosity, not just kind of blankly to listen to them without judgment. That’s a real critical piece. And if you do, you know, you can see on the show, it’s just like, you can see the switch flip. It’s really interesting. You can almost watch when it [00:19:00] happens and all of a sudden. The person likes the other person and now they’re listening to each other. It was really interesting. I was on a show one of the episodes is called I forget what it’s called. It’s the Guns episode. How To Stop The Bleed or something. It was these two women, and one of them has a podcast that she had me on and she said what was really interesting to her was that given how the show was laid out, like the first part of the show, they’re arguing, like usually doing a debate and they don’t really hear each other. But she said, given how the show was laid out, she was not preparing her responses in her mind like she always does. When speaking to somebody else, she was not thinking about what she was going to say. Her job in her mind was to understand the other person, to really get the other person. She said it was a total shift in the way she was acting internally. Like, like, and she said she noticed it. Like, I am not even thinking about what I’m going to say. And then she said afterwards she thought a lot about it, [00:20:00] and that was a dramatic shift from anything she’s been involved with. And that’s another way to put it. You know, I don’t, I didn’t think of that when, you know that the people wouldn’t be preparing for their response like we usually do. But that is definitely what happens when you concentrate on listening, and so yeah, it’s received really warmly and it’s transforming. Gissele: Yeah, and I think it, a lot of it has to do with how you manage the conversations, right? Like the tools that you use. I noticed they use the who am I right? To try to get people to go down to their core level to talk about themselves, the whole flipping side, identity confusion, which we’ll talk about in a minute. So are these based on particular frameworks that you use to mediate conversations since you have a history of mediation? Or is this something that you sort of came up on your own? Larry: It is something that I came up with on my own for the most part. I mean, I do a type of mediation in the law. I’m a lawyer where it’s unusual because [00:21:00] I’m doing like a personal mediation in a legal context. It’s kind of weird. for people. Yeah, but I only do the types of mediations where people know each other, like I don’t do between two companies, because there’s not really a human element to it. It’s, it really is about money for the most part. But, but when it’s two human beings, the money is a proxy for something else, always. Mm-hmm. Yeah. and so I’m used to being able to connect people. I do, you know, divorce founders of companies, neighbors family members who are caring for another family member. People who, where there wouldn’t be a legal issue if their relationship wasn’t broken. And so they already know each other. I don’t have to do that really deep rapport building. I do have to do some, but not really deep. but my theory was that when starting this project, which is mostly political, and people who don’t know each other, that there would be a piece missing. You know, like I wasn’t sure if what I’d do would do would work. What I do with clients would work in this. Political context, and I want them to [00:22:00] know, my thought was how do I build that rapport, even if it’s broken in the personal relationship, like they’re craving that they want that healing, but here, like they don’t know the other person. So it was really just me think thinking about how do powerful things that I want to know about other people. Speaker 3: Yeah. Larry: And so I really just tried it. I mean, like, you know, what is most, what would I most powerfully want from another person? and I develop a list of questions that really worked well, but I’m really practiced in keeping people focused on the questions at hand and not allowing them to deviate from what it is that I’ve designed. So that’s something that, you know, I’ve been doing for 20 years, and it takes some skill to even know whether the person’s deviating, whether they’re sneaking in their own judgment or they’re, you know, they’re asking a question, but it’s [00:23:00] really designed to convince the other person. So I’ve good at detecting that from, from a fair amount of experience, and I’ve developed skills in how I can reel them back in without triggering them. Gissele: Yeah. I’ve watched it, like you’re very good at navigating people back and it’s very soft and very humane. can I just bring you back here? So there’s no like judgment or minimizing of what they say. They’re just like, well, can I just get you back on this track? It’s, it’s very beautiful how you do that . Larry: Thank you. and you ask how I prepare people. It’s interesting because what I do is I interview them for an hour and a half to see if they’re a match for the show, an hour and a half to two hours. And I get to know them during that and, and me asking all these questions, gets them liking me. Right. The same process happens between us. Yeah, Gissele: yeah, yeah, yeah. Larry: Smart. [00:24:00] and then before the show, I spend another, hour with them again over, it’s over video. I’ve never met these people in person, just repairing them for what’s going to happen, what my objectives are helping them understand that we’re going to start with conflict. It’s not where we’re going to go. Just really helping them understand the trajectory and answering their questions. And so they come in with some level of rapport. For me, it’s not like we know each other really well, so a lot of times it’s just us starting together. But they do trust me to some extent. There’s no, like, and you said, how do I get them to regulate? I don’t. there’s no preparation for that. It’s just that I, from so much experience with this, you know, thousands of conversations with people over the years, it’s easy to get a person to calm down, which is, you know, you just take a break from the other person to say, hold on a second, I’m gonna listen to you.[00:25:00] And then they calm down. And, those skills, you know, the whole, the whole identity confusion and the layout of the questions, that’s kind of my stuff. But the skills that I use are not mine. I’ve developed them over the years, but a lot of them come from nonviolent communication. Mm-hmm. And Marshall Rosenberg. And I got my first training in nonviolent communication probably 25 years ago. But I remember well the person’s saying, you’re moderating a conversation between, between two people. You prov you apply emergency first aid ’cause one person can’t, can’t hear. And you as the intermediate intermediary can apply that. And it, so it becomes quite easy, you know, with that thought in mind that I can heal in the moment, whatever’s going on. Gissele: Mm, mm-hmm. Beautiful. I wanna talk a little bit about the flipping side. ’cause I think it’s so, so important. Why do you get people to, with opposing [00:26:00] perspectives, to flip sides and then just reiterate the viewpoints from their perspective. I know sometimes it can be confusing to the people themselves, but why do you get them to flip sides? Larry: Yeah. So, so it might be helpful to view it through, you know, a real example. Let’s take. Eve and Nancy, which is, you know, a really powerful episode for your, wow. Your listeners who haven’t watched or heard any, any of these, Eve is a transgender woman. Fully transitioned. Nancy is what, what she called a gender fundamentalist wearing a MAGA hat. She comes in and she’s saying stuff like people who are trans belong in mental institutions. She tells Eve to her face that you’re a genetically modified man. Eve is saying, you know, you people don’t have empathy for other people. They’re really far apart. Let’s just say it’s not gone well. [00:27:00] Eve is very empathetic, however, you know, like she is unusually empathetic. And able to hear Nancy, and that is transforming for Nancy. I mean, I can’t express the degree to which Eve’s own nature and intention transformed this. You know, I helped, but it is an unbelievable example of me listening to you will transform you. And where I take them ultimately is I’m preparing them as they’re understanding each other for switching roles. Because what happens when we switch roles? I mean, my thought is that human beings can easily, you might, it might be weird to this, this point, but we, we often say you can walk in the shoes of another person. How is that even possible? If you, if you think about it, we, we have totally different upbringings, you know, how can you experience what another person experiences if we have totally different upbringings, [00:28:00] different philosophies. Like, how is that possible? And yet almost everybody can do it. And it’s because we have the same internal machinery, we have the same internal drives. We just have different ways of achieving them. And so if you can slowly build your understanding of a person’s history and their beliefs, like a belief might be that there’s Christ who is love and will save me. That’s a belief. If you identify the person’s history and their beliefs and you occupy that belief, you can understand why it’s important to them. If you have that be, why would that be? Well, it’s important to me now if I really believe that, because I wanna live forever. I can be with the people I love forever, I can help save other people. Like can there be anything more powerful than saving somebody’s soul? Like once you enter their belief, and the reason we’re able to do [00:29:00] that is because we are the same internally, we have the same desires. So the whole show is a buildup toward getting them to understand each other’s beliefs and experience and then occupy them. And once we do and we start advocating on the other person’s behalf, we become confused who we are. And that’s really powerful. Like, I don’t even know who I am and I’m doing this legitimately, like I’m totally advocating for you. I’m saying stuff you didn’t even say. Yeah. And then you are listening to me do that, and you’re blown away like you’ve never been heard so deeply. And particularly not by someone you consider an enemy. And so that is transforming. What I will say is that I use this process a lot in mediation. For a different reason. My mediations are not meant to repair relationships. This is meant to repair relationships my mediations are meant to solve issues. Gissele: Hmm. Larry: In, in this show, I [00:30:00] specifically tell them, you are not here to solve the issues. Like, how are they gonna solve the Palestine Israel issue? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And it’s too big of a burden and no one’s gonna listen to them. Mm-hmm. The goal is to show the audience that people should not be enemies. That they’re the same people on the other side. That’s my goal. So I try to keep them away from solution seeking because they will be disappointed. People won’t listen to them and things could fall apart. And that’s, it’s not the point of the show. But what’s interesting is that in my mediations, I use this tool of having them switch identities to solve issues because once they do occupy the other person’s perspective fully, they are then. Solving the issue because they understand that an internal level, the other person and what drives them, and they have no resistance to that and they understand themselves. They already understand themselves. And so during that process, solutions emerge because [00:31:00] they’ve never been able to hold both perspectives at the same time. And I heard you say that when we were opening the show, I don’t remember what the context was about holding both perspectives at the same time. But you, you said that, that that’s something that you do. Yes. Gissele: So so when, when students are taught research or even like thinking about ethical considerations, right? When you’re doing research, you’ve gotta be able to hold differing perspectives, understand differing views, understand research that might invalidate your perspectives, right? And so if you come already into the conversation thinking that there’s a right way or there’s a right perspective, and I heard you say this in your TEDx talk, I think you were talking about like, we can only win if we defeat the other side. That perspective that there’s only one side, one perspective prevents us then from engaging in dialogue and holding opposing views. Larry: and the holding the opposing views for, in my mind is not an intellectual process. Like you might think that if I, if I list all the [00:32:00] desires and the goals on both and on a spreadsheet, then I’ll be able to solve it. No chance. Yeah. It’s not a conscious intellectual process. It’s when you get it both sides deeply without resistance that your subconscious produces solutions. So we don’t consciously produce solutions. And what I found is that that is the most powerful tool to bring people to solutions where they are themselves and the other person at the same time where both people are doing this and then one person just suggests something that never occurred to any of us. And it solves it. Gissele: Yeah. Yeah. Now, that doesn’t Larry: happen in, in the show because I’m specifically telling them not to seek solutions, but it does happen in mediation. Gissele: Hmm. Yeah. And What you’re doing is so fundamental too, sometimes it’s not even about finding a solution. Sometimes it’s even just about finding the humanity in each other. And that is such a great beginning. You know, people wanna solve war. Yeah, of course we all wanna [00:33:00] eliminate war, but sometimes there’s war within families with neighbors. So why are we worried about the larger war where we’re not even in able to engage and hold space for each other’s humanity within our homes? And so I think what you’re inviting people to do is, can we sit with each other in dialogue without the need to change each other, just with respect, which you’ve mentioned is fundamental, just with presence, just remembering each other’s humanity. And I think that’s all fundamental. Larry: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Gissele: Yeah. I wanted to also mention, you know, one of the things that I noticed in, the conversations is how you focus people on disarming, and one of the ways that you get them to disarm is to take their uniforms off. Can you talk about a little bit about how uniforms show up in these conversations? Larry: Yeah. Some people come with like a MAGA hat or a pin or bracelets or something like that, that show which side they’re on, and I don’t discourage that. You know, [00:34:00] it’s part of the process for the audience from my perspective, because at a certain point, if they do come that way, I ask ’em not to wear a shirt that they can’t take off, but they might wear a hat. And if they, when they do take that off, eventually when we, when we stop the argument, when we stop the debate portion and we enter into another. Portion of the discussion, you can see the effect on the other person. And you can even see the effect on the person who took like the most dramatic is Nancy. Gissele: Yep. Nancy is wearing a, that’s the one I was Larry: thinking. MAGA hat. Yeah. And then she puts on Nancy is is from Kenya and she puts on a Kenyan headdress because her hair is, that’s so beautiful. A little messed up from the hat. And she’s like, I’ll put this on. and I asked her like, wow, you look really happy when you have that on. And she’s like, yeah, this is my crown. And she is almost like a different person and you know, uniforms basically divide, I mean they announced to the other side [00:35:00] essentially. I don’t care about you whether consciously or not. it’s interpreted as I will defeat you at any cost. You just don’t matter. I am on this side and I will crush you. And, and when she took that off, you could really actually see the difference in her and in Eve. Gissele: Yeah, absolutely. It was truly transformative. ‘Cause I noticed that when she had the hat you can even see it in the body language. There was a big protection. And she use it as a protection in terms of like, well, my group but when she used her headdress, it was so beautiful and it was just more her, it was just her. It wasn’t all of these other people. When I think about, you know, the Holocaust and how people got into these roles. ’cause you know, in my class we talk about the vanity of evil, right? Like how people, some people were hairdressers and butchers before the Holocaust. They came, they did these roles, and then they went back to doing that after the war. And it’s like, how does that make sense? And, and to put a uniform on, to [00:36:00] put a role on and then fully accept it, like you said, creates that division, creates that separation between human beings. Whereas what you’re doing is you’re asking them to disarm and to go back to the essence of their own humanity, which I think is really powerful. But it was really interesting the whole discussion on, on uniforms, right? Larry: Yeah, yeah. it is one of the many ways we separate ourselves, that we separate ourselves, that we perceive ourselves as different than them, and that they view us as a threat. Gissele: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I heard you say that enemies are not enemies, it’s just us on the other side. What do you mean by that? Larry: I mean the ordinary people of the enemy. I believe enemy makers, if you can think of who you might consider an enemy maker. They are political leaders and they are media leaders. And they wouldn’t exist. They wouldn’t have any [00:37:00] power. People wouldn’t vote for them. People wouldn’t watch them if they didn’t create an enemy. If they didn’t foster the idea that there is an enemy. And the enemy has got to be broad. It can’t just be one person. It’s got to be a people that I’m fighting against. It’s gotta be a big threat. And so they paint people who are ordinary people on the other side as a threat. All the time. Yeah. and so that’s the, big lie at the center of it, that they’re a threat. And what happens is, there’s the psychological process that the, brain goes through. The mind goes through that where once we’re under threat, that’s a cascade that is exists in every human being. And that results in us going to war with the other side once we’re under threat. But this is an us choosing a leader. But this is a very fundamental basic process and [00:38:00] fundamental, basic lie that that autocrats and demagogues and people who just want power have been using forever with human beings, I imagine. And it’s extremely powerful. And so what I intend to show is that that is a lie. Gissele: Hmm. Larry: That is just not the truth because at the core of this psychological process is the thought that you’re a threat to me. And then this whole cascade happens internally for me. If I no longer believe you are a threat, the cascade unwinds and the power of the enemy maker unwins, it can all flip on that one lie. And so I want people to understand that ordinary people on the other side are just them. Like, I can’t tell you how many times people on the show are, are just like, holy cow. Yeah, I see myself in you. Like I, that’s exactly what I’m experiencing. And it’s revelatory for [00:39:00] them. Like how could that be? Like how could we be opposed to each other? This is crazy. Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Gissele: And you know, it’s amazing how when we truly understand somebody’s reasons for believing what they do, their history, their beliefs, why they believe makes sense, right? Yeah. Like, I saw it a lot in children in care, in the child protection system. Their behaviors seem reallymisbehaved. they shut down. They, act out. in some cases, that’s how those kids survived, these abusive homes, right? And so to them they’re still always on survival mode. Yeah. Makes sense. That’s what helped them survive. And so you, when you understand the other person’s perspective makes sense. Yeah. And you know, as you were talking, I was thinking what is going on for those demagogues and those authoritarian people that believe that that’s the only way that they can get what they need. you mean the leaders themselves? The leaders themselves, like so powerful people, people that are in their power, feel, love, feel [00:40:00] fulfilled, don’t need to disempower others, they don’t. In fact, the more that you love yourself at least that has been my experience, the more I have compassion for myself, the more I love myself, the more I’m in that state, the less I wanna hurt other people. The more I care about other people actually. So what is going on for them? That they think that this is the only way to get their needs met? Larry: I’ve thought a lot about this, you know, because the goal of this show is to show that people aren’t enemies, but there are enemy makers. And to me they are the enemy. like of all of the rest of us, all of us who are just trying to exist in the world, who prefer a world where we’re working together, you know? Yeah. It’s these people on the extreme who are, who are basically consciously sucking the goodwill out of society that I couldn’t care less about that because they get power. So is there something different about them? Is there, I have a few conclusions. One is [00:41:00] that there are people who are different that, that they are born, you know, all of us are born with the same internal desires and almost all of us get pleasure from seeing other people happy. That’s just born into us. Like, you know, almost everyone who’s an activist who comes onto the show, everyone actually is doing it because they want to other people to be happy. They, they don’t want people to experience the same pain that they’ve been in their life, but there are people who are born without or have extremely dialed down the pleasure that they get, the happiness that they get from seeing other people happy and healed. It’s not that the rest of us always want to see other people happy, but it, it’s one of our greatest sources of pleasure. There are people who are born without that. We call them sociopaths, Some leaders are sociopaths. They, don’t, I believe, obtain pleasure from other people’s happiness and they’re able to manipulate us quite often very well. And it’s these people who in peace time, [00:42:00] we wouldn’t even sit next to, we wouldn’t invite them over for Thanksgiving. Those are the people we choose, that it’s, it Gissele: doesn’t make biological sense. Larry: Well, they’re the people we choose when we’re at war, they are the people we choose. So, so think about this, okay? There is a virus, and the virus will kill 95% of human beings. And you have a leader who says there’s someone in power who says, we understand that people who are infected are going to infect other people, that as a society, we need to euthanize them. We actually need to do that as a society to save other people. Mm-hmm. There might be a leader who is empathetic, who says, I can’t do that. That, that feels wrong to me. almost all of us turn to the someone else who is a tyrant. Gissele: Who’s willing to do [00:43:00] what needs to be done to save us, right, exactly. Larry: To defeat evil, to kill, you know, when there’s a big enough threat, we will turn to the tyrant. And so people who are sociopaths and who in normal society would be rejected as a person who’s extremely dangerous, are the very people we turn to in times of war, when evil needs to be defeated. And so if you’re a sociopath and you want power, there’s no other way to power, you’re not going to follow the route of cooperation. You’re not going to follow the route of, you know, building alliance with the other side. You’re, if it, you’ll go the route of creating an enemy. And so that’s what we’ve, we’ve found. In our society, there are people who rise to power, who are the very people we would want nothing to do with in peace time. And that [00:44:00] people turn to, because they believe the other side is an enemy. They believe they are the virus that will kill 95% of people. So you can think of any leader and you might say, how could people follow this person? How could they possibly, what kind of evil is in people that they would follow this person, given what this person is doing? And the answer is obvious. They’ve been convinced that the other side is evil. Gissele: Yeah. Larry: And they truly, truly believe it. Gissele: This makes me think Hitler would’ve been a lone nut if 10 million people hadn’t followed him. Right? Larry: Right. And they believed, right. Gissele: They believed, I Speaker 4: mean. Larry: That, that Jews were, were incredible danger. They also ignored it and, you know, wanted to get along in society and, and be with the people they cared about. But, they truly believed that Jews were evil. Yeah. And if you, if you can convince them of that, you can lead a people. Gissele: Yeah. So the, it goes to the [00:45:00] question of like the reflexivity, like, so what is people’s own responsibility to constantly examine their own biases, beliefs, and viewpoints? Right. I gotta applaud the people that are on your show because they have to be willing to engage in a dialogue. So there’s an element of them that is willing to be wrong, right? or willing to kind of engage in that perspective. And we struggle so much. Yeah, with being wrong, like the mind always wants to be, right. We want to be on the side of good. And that’s one of the things that I was so reflecting on, I think I was listening to the conversation with, proud Boy, and the, in the progressive. The, yeah, progressive And that’s one of the episodes, by the way, for people. Yeah. That’s one of the episodes. And, and I, I love the follow up by the way. That was also amazing. It’s so funny because I was like, oh, is there a follow up? And I were like, went to search for it. Just to see how both sides feel that they’re right. And on the side of good, on the side of like positive for humanity, I think was really puzzling to me we have different ways [00:46:00] of getting there. You know, the people that for Trump really truly believe that some of the stuff he’s doing is very beneficial. The people that are against, they truly believe that what he’s doing is horrible. And to see those perspectives that at the core of it is a love or a care about humanity was really kind of mind blowing. Larry: Yeah, that is mind blowing. Gissele: Yeah, Larry: it is mind blowing. And what is infuriating to me is that we are manipulated to not pair with these other people because then these leaders would lose their power, you know, it’s a huge manipulation. Gissele: So this is why it’s up to each of us to do that work, to do the coming together, the engaging in the conversation, even though sometimes it feels difficult. And, having a willingness to listen And that’s the thing, that’s the thing about your beautiful show, which is like, you don’t have to agree at the end. You just have to see each other’s humanity, right? to let go of enemies, let go, to let Larry: go of that we have to agree that’s a real problem for me as well. Like when I get into a conversation with someone, [00:47:00] it’s like, how do we conclude the conversation if we don’t agree? It’s almost like it’s, it’s a forced imperative that is a mistake. Like that’s the point of the conversation. Yeah. for the most part, let go of that because I see now that that was just a mistake. Like we never had to agree. Gissele: Yeah. I so let’s talk about then, since we’re talking about disagreement, let’s talk about censorship, So because of the class that I teach, because I want them to understand different perspectives. One of the things I say in these papers is like, look, you can be pro-choice or pro-life. You can be pro Trump or against, I’m not judging you. That doesn’t matter. The exercise is to view the other side. That’s it, right? But it’s amazing how some of these dialogues in institutions have been diminished because there’s the belief that if we have these conversations, we’re supporting it, right? But the truth of the matter is that dialogue goes underground. It doesn’t disappear. It [00:48:00] doesn’t mean like, oh, everybody now believes this. It just goes covert, right? And these dialogues about these opposing perspectives are happening. And so I think I’d rather have these conversations up. And so that we can engage in dialogue and see what people are believing. I mean, there’s this undercurrent of racism, it seems, from my perspective, it it that that has existed for such a long time. It used to exist very, like visually in terms of slavery, but now there is still underground racism, right? Like it’s covert people may be able to vocalize the importance of diversity, but some people don’t believe it. So let’s talk about it rather than kind of like try to get those people to disappear and pretend it’s not there. What are your thoughts? Larry: Yeah. You know, there’s been a criticism that comes from the left a lot on the show, from people, from in comments is that we platformed bad guys. Like, you should not, you should not be giving a [00:49:00] stage to a proud boy. Well, if you listen to the Proud Boy’s perspective, this guy is like completely reasonable. He, he, you know, from people on the left, they’re even confused that he’s a proud boy. I think he might be confused about why he is a proud boy, I’m not sure. but he’s completely reasonable. So to, to just reflexively reject this person. He’s not there to represent the proud boys. He’s there to represent himself and to reflexively reject this person is to miss out on really a, a beautiful person and an interesting perspective. I’ve given a lot of thought to the criticism, however, because there’s a guy I’m considering having on the show who is a self-described fascist, a white supremacist, and I’ve had conversations with him and it is amazing how. The reason he is a white supremacist is he truly believes that white people are in danger and that he will be rejected. There will be no opportunities for them, and that he [00:50:00] is possibly in physical danger. He truly believes this. And if I believe that, you know I might do the same thing. And, I had a three hour interview with him where I really liked him, but I’m probably not gonna put him on the show. And, I’ve really thought a lot about whether to platform people and, I’ve kind of developed my own philosophy on whether it’s worth whether I should be airing viewpoints or not. And my thought is that a bridge goes both ways. So I can build a bridge where I walk him back. I am confident that I can have someone hear him out and him develop a relationship with them where he then becomes less extreme in his viewpoints. Gissele: I was gonna say, I think you should have him on the show. here’s is my perspective. Okay? Again, this is so similar to what Darrell David said, right? his intent wasn’t to change. It was to [00:51:00] understand, I think if we understood why people were afraid of us or hated, I’m Latino, by the way, right? We understood then we, can have the dialogue. The thing is like. People are giving like a one-sided propaganda. And it’s true, like if you actually hear the rhetoric of many separate groups is the fear of the other. Even though when you look at the population stats, right, even in the US black people make up 4%. Indigenous people make up 2% of the population. Like I think white people make up 57% of the population of the US and it’s higher in Canada. But it’s the fears, even though they might not be based on reality. That’s the rhetoric that these groups use. They use the rhetoric of we’re in danger, that these people are out to get us to destroy us. Thatsomehow it’s better for us to be isolated and separated. And they use the rhetoric of belonging. They use the rhetoric of love. They [00:52:00] use a co-opt it I don’t even think it’s rhetoric Larry: for them. It’s truth for them. Okay, Gissele: thank you. Yeah, so if you have people who are engaging in those different dialogues, like Darrell did, people don’t understand why they believe that the way that they do. Right? Because, because it’s real. Right? Now that rhetoric is happening, whether people wanna face it or not, that’s the problem. So Larry: I you completely, and when I first started this, I said to myself, there’s no question that I’m gonna have a Nazi on the show. There’s no question. But as I’ve thought about the critique that’s been offered, I’ve kind of drawn a line for myself at least present. And, and that’s fair. but I’ll tell you why I haven’t, I haven’t said why yet, which is A bridge goes both ways and, while I believe it’s really important to hear people, them out, because you walk people on both sides back from the extreme, toward the majority when you hear them out because they don’t see people as a threat anymore. As much. [00:53:00] What happens is by building the bridge, you provide an opportunity for many people to walk out toward them. When you give them an opportunity to hear, hear them out publicly, and my thought is that I will hear anybody out who has a large following because they already are being heard. Mm-hmm. They already have people walking out to them, and my goal is to bring them toward the rest of us so that we can function as a society. Mm-hmm. But I’m not gonna hear somebody who’s 0.1%, who’s because. Mm-hmm. Gissele: Okay. Larry: I understand me walk because they’re, I can walk them back, but maybe I walk 20 people out to them. Gissele: And it creates Larry: a bigger problem. And so, in my own view it’s about how big their following is already. Mm. Even though, yes, it’s, we can walk them back by hearing them. Gissele: Mm. Yeah. So, yeah. It’s, [00:54:00] it’s so interesting. I was just thinking about Deeyah Khan And Darryl David’s the same. And one of the things I noticed about their work is that, and I noticed it in yours too, is sometimes what happens in these sort of circumstances is that the people that they are exposed to might become the exception to the rule. Have you heard of the, the exception to the rule? So let’s say I meet someone who’s anti-Latino, but they’re like, but then they like me. And so they’ll do, like, you are all right. Speaker 4: Yeah. Gissele: I still don’t like other Latinos. Right. And so in the beginning that used to irk me so much. Right? Then I realized after watching all of this, information and I observed it in your show and I thought about it, is that’s the beginning of re humanization. Larry: I agree with that. It’s like it’s a dial, it’s not a switch. Yeah. Gissele: Yes. And so it begins with, oh, this is the exception to the rule, and then this next person’s the exception to the rule, and then this next person, and then, then the brain can’t handle it. Like how many exceptions to the rule can there [00:55:00] be? They couldn’t hold the exception to the rule anymore. Right. It had to be that their belief was wrong Right. Which is, it’s really interesting. And, and Larry: it’s another, another interesting thing I often say, which I get negative feedback about this statement that we don’t choose our beliefs. we don’t have any power over them. They just exist. Mm-hmm. And we can’t choose. Not if I think that. A certain race is dangerous to me. I can’t just choose not to. You can call me racist, whatever. I just can’t choose my thought about it. I have an experience. People have told me things. That’s my belief. That belief gets eroded. It doesn’t get changed. Gissele: Mm-hmm. It, Larry: it happens not consciously. Life experiences change our beliefs, we don’t just suddenly love white people. if we’ve experienced, brutality from white people or from white cops, you don’t just change your belief about it. You have to get, you have to slowly be [00:56:00] exposed. You have to, or be deeply exposed. so these types of things erode our other beliefs. Gissele: Mm-hmm. Larry: And, and my goal is not, you know, like Nancy came in, I would say as a nine or a 10 with her. Dislike for trans people when she left. Just to be clear, ’cause people I think are mistaken about this, who watch this show, she does not think still that trans people should be around kids. She still thinks it’s dangerous, but she thinks trans people themselves are okay. That they can be beautiful, that they do not belong in mental institutions. And as she said, I would drink outta the same glass from you Eve and I would protect you. So she went from a 10 to a seven, let’s say? Yeah. Gissele: Yeah. Larry: And she’s still out there. She still there. She used the word Gissele: she. Larry: Mm-hmm. Yeah. She used the word SHE and she’s still out there advocating for keeping trans people away from kids. and [00:57:00] people are like, so she’s a hypocrite. She’s, no, she has moved so far and. Eve moved toward, I shouldn’t paint Nancy as the wrong one. Eve moved toward Nancy understanding that Nancy really is worried about kids, and Nancy brought up some things that really concerned Eve when she heard it, about the exposure that kids have to various concepts. I guess my point is that people who get dialed down from a 10 to a six or a seven can deal with each other. They can run a society together. Mm-hmm. They don’t, they don’t invest all of their energy in defeating the other side, which is where all of our energy is now. I call it issues zero. You care about climate change, or you care about poverty, you care about mass migration, you care about nuclear per proliferation, you care about ai. Forget it. None of these are getting solved. Zero. Yeah. Unless we learn to cooperate with each other, and if [00:58:00] we’re dedicating all of our energy to defeating the other side, every single one of these issues goes unaddressed. And so my goal is to dial the vitriol down so that we can actually solve some human problems so that the next generation doesn’t inherit this mess that we’ve created. Gissele: Mm-hmm. You once said, I, I may be misquoting you, so please correct me. Revenge is a need for understanding. Can you explain that further? Larry: Yeah. I said that in in my TEDx, mm-hmm. if someone has been hurt by another person, they often seek revenge. And that desire for revenge will go away actually when they’re understood. If you’re under and you deny that you want to be understood by your enemy. You’d say like, that is baloney. they deserve to be punished and they need to be punished to provide disincentive for other people in society so that they don’t do this terrible thing. People [00:59:00] would deny that they want understanding from their enemy, but when they receive it, the desire for revenge goes away. I mean, I’ve seen that innumerable times. So how does the need for understanding help us live beyond the need to punish one another? Well, I think that if someone’s seeking revenge against you, if someone’s trying to injure you, you can unravel that by understanding them, whether we, people agree that that human beings seek revenge as a need or not, you can unravel it pretty, not easily, but you can pretty reliably. Very often people who seek revenge against each other, like in my mediations, once they’re understood by the other person, once they have some connection, They go through some kind of healing process with the other person. They don’t even understand why they were seeking revenge themselves, like they are [01:00:00] completely transformed. they were like, that would be a total travesty of justice if you were hurt Now. Gissele: Yeah. I love the fact that these conversations get at the core of human needs, which is they need to be seen, they need to be understood, they need to be loved, they need to be accepted, they need to be long. And so I think these conversations that you’re facilitating get to those needs, you kind of like go through all of the, the fluff to get to the, okay, what are the needs that need to be met? and how can we connect to one another through those needs? And then, and then from that, you go back to the conversation on the topic. And really it’s about fears at the core of it, right? Like the fear that my children are gonna be confused or forced into something or, the fear that somebody’s gonna have a say over my body and tell me that I have to do something. All of those fears are at the core and conversations get at those needs, not at the surface. Yeah. It’s not to say Larry: I should say that. It’s not to say that the fears are irrational. Yeah. They might be rational. But you know, it’s also a [01:01:00] self-fulfilling prophecy that if we fear somebody, they’re going to think of us as a threat. We’re gonna do stuff that creates the world that we fear. And it’s obvious with certain issues like between two peoples. You know, like if you fear that the other people are going to attack you, you might preemptively attack them or you might treat them in a, in a way that is really bad. And, and so you start this war and that happens between human beings on an individual basis and between peoples, yeah. It’s less obvious, with an issue, let’s say abortion. my fear is not creating the issue on the other side. but many of our interactions with other human beings, it is our fear that triggers them. We create the world we fear. Gissele: Yeah. And I think that goes back to the self-responsibility, right? to what extent are we responsible for looking at ourselves, looking at our biases, looking at our prejudice, looking at our fear and how our [01:02:00] fear is causing us to hurt other people. What responsibility do we have to engage in dialogue or be willing to see somebody’s humanity, right? It’s Larry: just this better strategy. Even if you think of it as, yeah, you know, people sometimes say these two sides. I get this criticism a lot, and this, by the way, these criticisms come from the left mostly that these two sides are not, are not Equivalent. Oh, okay. how could you equate Nancy and Eve, Eve just wants to live. Nancy’s trying to control her, the left views, the right is trying to control them and oppress them and so they’re not moral equivalent. And my point is always, I’m not making a point that they’re morally equivalent. That’s for you to decide, okay? If you want to. I’m saying morally judging them is not effective. It’s just not gonna produce the world that you want. So, you know, it’s just really effective [01:03:00] to hear them out, to take their concerns seriously, even if you think that it’s not fair. But you’ll then create the world you want. And if you don’t do that, if you poo poo them, even if they’re wrong, you believe they’re completely wrong, and you think that mm-hmm you know, there is good and evil and they are completely the evil one, you are going to exacerbate their evil by morally rebuking them. And I want to say that like as clearly as possible, I haven’t made this point e enough on the show. I’m really kind of building a base before I go into more sophisticated, what I would consider a more nuanced. Philosophy, but if you judge somebody, it is the greatest threat to a human being. Just understand that we evolved in groups and moral judgment was the way we got kicked out of groups. If you were a bad person, you were gone, you were dead. [01:04:00] And so all of us respond very, very negatively to being judged as selfish. I’ve had clients threaten to kill each other. Not as powerful

Under President Erdogan, Turkiye has asserted itself as a regional leader.The country recently hosted meetings with Arab states to try to solve the Palestine-Israel conflict. But in July this year, mass demonstrations roiled Istanbul.The Enduring Hold of Islam in Turkey explains the rise and seemingly untouchable dominance of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.GUEST:David Tonge is a journalist and scholar who's lived half his life in Türkiye. This program was first broadcast in March 2025 and made on the lands of the Gadigal People

As we wrap up 2025, professor Nelson Kraybill joins Daniel for a conversation about all things apocalyptic. Kraybill , a scholar of the book of Revelation, discusses the End Times, the Rapture, and the various confusing terms and images found in Revelation.J. Nelson Kraybill is a retired pastor in Elkhart, Indiana and president of Mennonite World Conference. He was director of the London Mennonite Centre in England (1991-1996) and president of Anabaptist Mennonite Biblical Seminary (1997-2009) in Indiana.  With a doctorate in New Testament from Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Virginia, he is author of several books, including Apocalypse and Allegiance: Worship, Politics, and Devotion in the Book of Revelation.Apocalypse and Allegiance on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Allegiance-Politics-Devotion-Revelation-ebook/dp/B008DWUXPE?ref_=ast_author_mpbBecome a monthly supporter of Across the Divide on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide for more on ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.#israel #palestine #christianity #bible #revelation #endtimes #rapture

(12.19.2025-12.26.2025) Peak: Aftermath. Tune in.#applepodcasts⁠ ⁠#spotifypodcasts⁠ ⁠#youtube #amazon⁠ ⁠#patreon⁠patreon.com/isaiahnews

In this episode of Occupied Thoughts, FMEP Fellow Ahmed Moor speaks with Sarah Leah Whitson and Michael Omer-Man of DAWN, an organization supporting human rights and democracy in the Middle East & North Africa. They discuss the recently-published book that Whitson and Omer-Man co-authored, From Apartheid to Democracy: A Blueprint for Peace in Israel-Palestine. Practically, the book acts as a blueprint for ameliorating the conditions in Palestine-Israel today, such that the residents of the country may decide through democratic means how to organize society in the future. See more about the organization here: https://dawnmena.org/ and about the book here: https://www.ucpress.edu/books/from-apartheid-to-democracy/paper. Michael Omer-Man is Israel-Palestine Director at DAWN and former Editor in Chief of +972 Magazine.   Sarah Leah Whitson is Executive Director of DAWN and former Executive Director of Human Rights Watch's Middle East and North Africa Division. Ahmed Moor is a Palestinian-American writer born in Gaza and a 2025 Fellow at FMEP. He is an advisory board member of the US Campaign for Palestinian rights, co-editor of After Zionism (Saqi Books) and is currently writing a book about Palestine. He also currently serves on the board of the Independence Media Foundation. His work has been published in The Guardian, The London Review of Books, The Nation, and elsewhere. He earned a BA at the University of Pennsylvania and an MPP at Harvard University. You can follow Ahmed on Substack at: https://ahmedmoor.substack.com Original music by Jalal Yaquoub.

Jen has a conversation with Kelley Nikondeha about her book, The First Advent in Palestine: Reversals, Resistance, and the Ongoing Complexity of Hope. They discuss the context of Matthew and Luke's Advent narratives, which included abusive rulers, systems of oppression, and economic hardship. Kelley shares about how these Advent stories invite Christians to hear “good news” for the poor and downtrodden and live out our faith in continuing generations of hope.This episode is a part of Across the Divide's Monthly Book Club. We invite you to read The First Advent in Palestine along with the ATD community and consider joining our virtual Book Club conversation on the book for our Patreon supporters on Sunday, January 4, 2026. To learn more and become a Patreon supporter, visit https://www.patreon.com/c/AcrosstheDivide You can purchase the book here, or find an e-book or audiobook version on your preferred platform.Kelley Nikondeha is a writer, liberation theologian, and community development practitioner. She combines biblical texts and various cultural contexts to discover insights for embodied justice, community engagement, and living faith. She is the author of Defiant: What the Women of Exodus Teach Us about Freedom and Adopted: The Sacrament of Belonging in a Fractured World, and is known for highlighting Palestinian voices and rights. She travels between the southwest US and Burundi in East Africa. For more, visit kelleynikondeha.comKelley's new book is Jubilee Economics: The Purpose, Practices and Possibilities for a Better FutureBecome a monthly supporter of Across the Divide on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide for more on ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.#israel #palestine #christianity #bible #faith #advent #christmas #bookclub

This week on the show Katie talks to Ghada Karmi about the possibility of a one state solution and her latest book, Murjana. For the full discussion, please join us on Patreon at - https://www.patreon.com/posts/patreon-full-145487196 Ghada Karmi is a Palestinian-born academic, physician, author and novelist. She is the author of In Search of Fatima: A Palestinian Story, One State: The Only Democratic Future for Palestine-Israel, and most recently Murjana, a historical fiction novel based in 7th Century Baghdad. Her articles have appeared in newspapers and magazines, including The Guardian, The Nation and Journal of Palestine Studies. ***Please support The Katie Halper Show *** For bonus content, exclusive interviews, to support independent media & to help make this program possible, please join us on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/thekatiehalpershow Get your Katie Halper Show Merch here! https://katiehalper.myspreadshop.com/all Follow Katie on Twitter: https://x.com/kthalps Follow Katie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kthalps Follow Katie on TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@kthalps_

Mindy Summers joins Abeer to share about journey of advocacy and peacemaking. Together, they explore how digital platforms can elevate marginalized voices, challenge harmful theologies, and spark deep personal transformation, especially around Israel-Palestine, immigration, and gender justice. Mindy Summers is an advocate and peacemaker. She uses social media as an advocacy platform to share about Palestine, immigration, refugees, women empowerment, anti-trafficking, racism, church abuse, patriarchy, & systemic injustice. Mindy resides in Missouri with her husband & four children and aims to help her neighbors see the hand of God at work in the margins of our societies.Become a monthly supporter of Across the Divide on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide for more on ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.

In spring 2023, journalist and filmmaker Antony Loewenstein published The Palestine Laboratory, a book tracing the way that Israeli military technology and weaponry, battle-tested on Palestinians, is exported around the world. Lowenstein argues that as Israel's surveillance and combat technologies are sold far and wide, we can expect to see the forms of violence carried out in Gaza, for example, appear elsewhere in the world. Last month, Jewish Currents published an article by Rhys Machold called “The Myth of Israeli Innovation,” which takes a critical look at what Machold has termed “the laboratory thesis” and examines how it obscures Israel's dependence on powerful allies, while doing PR for the overhyped Israeli tech sector. On this episode of On the Nose, Jewish Currents editor-in-chief Arielle Angel hosts Loewenstein and Machold for a comradely debate about the “laboratory thesis” and whether it serves a narrative of Zionist exceptionalism. The guests discuss how advanced Israeli weapons really are; how “Israeli” they are, given the role of Western governments and corporations in their development; and how much of Israel's “innovation” should be considered technological as opposed to political. They also explore whether or not Israel is on the verge of collapse, and how to characterize the balance of power between Israel and the US.Thanks to Jesse Brenneman for producing and to Nathan Salsburg for the use of his song “VIII (All That Were Calculated Have Passed).”Articles and Media Mentioned and Further ReadingThe Palestine Laboratory by Antony LoewensteinThe Palestine Laboratory, documentary series by Antony Loewenstein on Al Jazeera“The Myth of Israeli Innovation,” Rhys Machold, Jewish Currents“Reconsidering the laboratory thesis: Palestine/Israel and the geopolitics of representation,” Rhys Machold, Political Geography“How Palantir, Google & Amazon armed Israel's genocide in Gaza,” interview with Antony Loewenstein on The Big Picture, Middle East Eye “‘Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing spree in Gaza,” Yuval Abraham, +972 Magazine“Profiting from Terror in Cold War Latin America: Bishara Bahbah's Israel and Latin America: The Military Connection,” Alexander Aviña, Liberated Texts“From Domination to Extermination,” Shir Hever, Phenomenal World“

Author and historian Jemar Tisby joins us to discuss the connections that blacks, and especially black Christians, have with the Palestinian struggle for justice and liberation. Jemar explains how the concept of “God of the Oppressed” provides a powerful framework to shape Christian advocacy for both blacks and Palestinians.Become a monthly supporter of Across the Divide on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide for more on ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.#israel #palestine #gaza #christianity #bible #faith #zionism #liberation #justice

00:00:00 - Topics00:01:44 - If 3I/ATLAS were a "comet", NASA would have flooded news channels with high-resolution images of it near Mars, taken on October 3. https://x.com/RedCollie1/status/198929422855671407700:04:12 - JP (US Army ret.) has direct experience and knowledge of medbeds used in secret space programs. https://x.com/MichaelSalla/status/1990027067686305905 00:05:50 - Marker 4 - "Making Extraterrestrial Contact – The Role of Self-Mastery: with James Gilliland & Peter Maxwell Slattery" https://t.co/wWfLhHzaJo 00:09:37 - Jason Shurka on rival Jedi and Sith Lodges battling over humanity's future. https://x.com/MichaelSalla/status/1990068309400723591 00:12:44 - An image of 3I/Atlas taken by Satoru Murata, an amateur astronomer shows a clear tail facing away from the Sun, which is typical of comet behavior. https://x.com/MichaelSalla/status/1990368668434276430 00:14:49 - What's Coming in 2026 – Revelations & Revolutions https://x.com/MichaelSalla/status/1990387973431472496 00:15:56 - JP (US Army ret.) describes his experience in a city controlled by the Ant people. https://x.com/MichaelSalla/status/1990618211948101776 00:17:37 - Marker 9 - It's significant that the Sun and 3I/Atlas are still interacting/communicating. Supports claims that 3I/Atlas is transmitting frequencies that are impacting our Sun. https://x.com/MichaelSalla/status/1990724061572342039 00:20:34 - It's unprecedented for the US to support the United Nations Security Council in a major resolution on the Palestine/Israel problem. https://x.com/MichaelSalla/status/1990727115117936690 00:26:49 - NASA caught once again turning off its ISS live stream when a UFO shows up. Not a coincidence. https://x.com/MichaelSalla/status/1991108331004666116 00:29:43 - Introduction to my last Exopolitics Monthly Live Briefing, which covers the last 4-6 weeks of ET-related news. https://x.com/MichaelSalla/status/1991287616243650686 00:31:32 - NASA Press Conference on 3I/Atlas https://x.com/NASA/status/1991235191147237435 NASA finally released its HiRISE image of 3I/Atlas after over a month of delays and it was no better than amateur astronomer images. https://x.com/MichaelSalla/status/1991294442532167868 00:33:41 - Amateur astronomers are releasing clearer images of space objects such as 3I/Atlas than highly funded space agencies with billion dollar space telescopes that delay. https://x.com/MichaelSalla/status/1991476628728193341 00:39:07 - More Galactic Envoys Awaken to Dark Fleet service as GFW double agents https://t.co/Ils2bb6XZ8 00:43:07 - Age of Disclosure is now available and focuses on the testimonies of 34 former and current govt, military and intel officials who say they have seen evidence of UFOs. https://x.com/MichaelSalla/status/1991839008943677942 Join Dr. Salla on Patreon for Early Releases, Webinar Perks and More.Visit https://Patreon.com/MichaelSalla/

Rev. Joash Thomas joins us for a conversation on justice and its relationship to the church. Joash provides helpful insight about the hesitancy of many Christians to think biblically about the justice, and offers some practical steps for individuals and church communities to prioritize justice in their lives and ministries. Much of the conversation is based on Joash's recent book “The Justice of Jesus.Born and raised in India, Joash served as a U.S. political consultant and lobbyist before pivoting to global human rights advocacy. Now based in the Toronto area, he holds a master's degree in Political Management from The George Washington University and holds two master's degrees from Dallas Theological Seminary in Christian Leadership and Theology. Through speaking engagements, teaching, and advocacy, Joash calls Christians to a more contemplative yet courageous activism, motivated by the grace-filled, non-violent way of Jesus. For me, see https://www.joashpthomas.com/aboutBecome a monthly supporter of Across the Divide on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide for more on ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.

In this episode of the Blood Brothers Podcast, Dilly Hussain spoke with the prominent British Muslim scholar, author and debater, Shaykh Asrar Rashid. Topics of discussion include: Hanafi fiqh Q&A: Forgetting rakat in prayer, the niqab, combining prayer and wiping over socks in wudu. Syria one year on: Positives, negatives, and areas of concern. The occupation and liberation of Palestine in light of October 7th. Muslim armies, regimes, and the dismantlement of Israel. Shifting opinion in the West over Palestine and rise of the far right. Tommy Robinson and Imam Umayr Mulla's interview in Jerusalem.  Deobandi and Barelvi differences and unity. State of the ummah, the end of times, and the next great war. FOLLOW 5PILLARS ON:    Website: https://5pillarsuk.com YouTube: https://youtube.com/@5Pillars Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/5pillarsuk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/5pillarsnews Twitter: https://x.com/5Pillarsuk Telegram: https://t.me/s/news5Pillars TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@5pillarsnews

As Israel continues its relentless assault on Gaza, killing and starving hundreds of thousands of Palestinians with Western backing, even during so-called ceasefires, one thing has become clear: this isn't just about Palestine. It's about Western supremacy, empire, and the racism that underpins them both.To discuss this, Rania Khalek is joined by Dr. Ghada Karmi — academic, physician, and Nakba survivor — who has written powerfully about how Western imperialism, Arab complicity, and Zionism's own contradictions have led us here. Dr. Karmi is a former research fellow at the Institute of Arab and Islamic Studies at the University of Exeter and author of many books including “One State: The Only Democratic Future for Palestine-Israel.”She has spent her life exposing the deeper roots of this catastrophe: the colonial mindset that made Palestine disposable, the Western guilt that turned Jewish suffering into Palestinian punishment, and the moral rot that allows genocide to be broadcast live without consequence.

In this episode of our "Gaza & the World" series, Helena Cobban talked with Dr. Ghada Karmi about the intersection of the genocide in Gaza and the shifting global balance of power. Dr. Karmi is a British-Palestinian who had a strong career in London as a physician and a medical historian; then between 2002 and 2023 she published four  thoughtful books that explored not only her own personal experiences as a member of the Nakba generation and a justice activist, but also the broader realities faced by Palestinians inside and outside the homeland. Her most recent work of non-fiction was One State:  The Only Democratic Future for Palestine-Israel. Dr. Karmi described the unprecedented groundswell of popular support for Palestinian rights the British public has displayed since October 2023, which she contrasted with the continued pro-Israel stance of the British government and many of the country's elite institutions. She detailed her role as a juror of conscience at the Gaza People's Tribunal in Istanbul, where she and others weighed the extremely harrowing testimonies of Israel's atrocities in Gaza. She was unequivocal: the underlying cause of the Palestinians' suffering is Zionism, which must therefore, she argued, be dismantled— which would not be the same as the physical destruction of Israel or its people. She was deeply skeptical of the wisdom of striving for a two-state solution, seeing it as perpetuating the destructive ideology of Zionism. She called instead for the reconstitution of pre-Zionist Palestine and the establishment of a single democratic state for all. She also described some of the experiences she had had while working as a consultant for the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah, back in 2005.She recognized the significance of the hopeful shifts among younger generations and new political actors in the West but warned that time is running out for Palestinian rights and existence. Support the show

Lisa Loden, Christian Israeli public theologian and poet, joins Daniel for a candid conversation about the October 7th and the ensuing genocide in Gaza. They discuss Lisa's story as a Messianic Jew and Lisa shares about her thoughts on what's happened in Gaza and how a theology of suffering and hope can help us move forward.Lisa Loden is a theologian, lecturer, author, teacher, peacemaker, and a poet. In 2014, together with Salim Munayer, she co-authored, Through My Enemies Eyes: Envisioning Reconciliation in Israel and Palestine. Lisa is also a member of several international ecumenical theological dialogues. For more, visit https://www.lisaloden.com/home/aboutPurchase your own copy of “Being Christian After the Desolation of Gaza”https://wipfandstock.com/9798385254859/being-christian-after-the-desolation-of-gaza. Use the coupon "DESOLATION40" to get 40% off.Become a monthly supporter of Across the Divide on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide for more on ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.#israel #palestine #gaza #christianity #bible #faith #zionism

Ben Norquist joins us to discuss how Christianity Today, the flagship Evangelical magazine, has been covering Gaza over the last 2 years. The discussion delves into several publications by CT, including its podcast, that have revealed a problematic and dehumanizing attitude toward Palestinian, one that effectively provided a theological cover for the genocide of the Palestinians in Gaza.Purchase your own copy of “Being Christian After the Desolation of Gaza”https://wipfandstock.com/9798385254859/being-christian-after-the-desolation-of-gaza. Use the coupon "DESOLATION40" to get 40% off.Ben Norquist (PhD, Azusa Pacific University) has served as director of grants and academics for Churches for Middle East Peace and as director of the Network of Evangelicals for the Middle East where he helped American Christians pursue holistic peace with their neighbors around the world. He is the co-author of a book coming out about justice and the land called Every Somewhere Sacred: Rescuing a Theology of Place in the American Imagination (InterVarsity Academic, 2026).Become a monthly supporter of Across the Divide on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide for more on ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.#israel #palestine #gaza #christianity #bible #faith #zionism

In this episode, Abeer speaks with Kayla Tychsen, Parent Coach and certified Integrative Trauma Coach, about the deep connections between parenting, personal healing, and justice. They explore what it means to re-parent ourselves, unlearn inherited narratives, and raise children with empathy, courage, and critical thinking. Kayla shares insights from her own journey navigating faith and activism, as well as her work supporting families in times of crisis. She offers practical and heartfelt strategies for approaching hard conversations, nurturing resilience, and staying rooted in compassion.Kayla Tychsen is an Accredited Parent Coach, Certified Integrative Trauma Coach, and TEDx speaker passionate about empowering parents, educators, and caregivers to cultivate confidence, connection, and joy. Kayla has worked with families across the Middle East and around the world, helping parents understand how their past shapes their parenting, live by their values, and build secure, nurturing relationships where children can thrive. Sign up to join the Palestine solidarity delegation, May 25-June 4th 2026: https://forms.gle/asNkGWXgVB5MRAuZ8Become a monthly supporter of Across the Divide on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide for more on ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.

The world's attention is focused on the Middle East this week as a fragile ceasefire takes hold in Israel's two-year long war in Gaza. Split-screen images show joyous reunions as Palestinians and Israelis who had been held captive greet their families, alongside scenes of shocking devastation in the Gaza Strip.For Mohsen Mahdawi, this story is personal. In April, Mahdawi sat in a Vermont jail cell for more than two weeks fighting for his freedom. Mahdawi is a Palestinian-born student at Columbia University who was arrested by immigration agents at what he was told would be a citizenship interview in St. Albans. Mahdawi, 35, grew up in a refugee camp in the Israeli-occupied West Bank but is now a legal permanent resident living in Vermont. He is a practicing Buddhist, was president of the Columbia University Buddhist Association and co-founded Columbia's Palestinian Student Union.The Trump administration is trying to deport Mahdawi, claiming that his pro-Palestinian campus activism poses a threat to national security. Vermont federal Judge Geoffrey Crawford ordered Madahwi's release on bail on April 30, comparing his arrest to the unlawful repression of free speech under McCarthyism. But the Trump administration appealed, arguing that Crawford did not have the right to intervene in Mahdawi's detention. Madahwi vs. Trump was argued before the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in New York on Sept. 30. Madahwi has a separate deportation case in immigration court that is ongoing.“It's not my case that is on trial,” Mahdawi said. “It is the constitution that is on trial. One of the most important and significant principles of democracy is the ability of expression and free speech. That's the first amendment right in this country, and what we've seen through targeting me and other students and other even journalists is a direct violation of this principle that every American is so proud of and they hold very dearly.”This legal drama has not slowed or silenced Madahwi. While out on bail this spring, Mahdawi graduated from Columbia University, receiving a standing ovation from his classmates as he walked across the stage to receive his diploma. This fall, he began a master's degree at Columbia's School of International and Public Affairs.“I felt validated, that my efforts and the risk that I have taken is being honored and respected,” he said of the support from his Columbia classmates. “I felt that I'm not alone, and I felt a strong level of solidarity and that the community here made it very clear to the government and to those who have been targeting me that they are standing on the right side of history.”Mahdawi was just named a 2025 Beerman Foundation Fellow for Peace and Justice for his work that “bridges faith, activism, and dialogue to advance nonviolence and dignity for all.”Mahdawi is guardedly optimistic about the new Israeli-Palestinian peace plan.  “While there is a sense of relief and ability to say 'I'm glad this is happening', there is also still suspicion about how long this would last,” he said.“I pray that the war is over, but at the same time, I see that Israel now is saying that they have a historic right to the West Bank, which would prevent the creation of a Palestinian state, something that the majority of the world, more than 80% of the international community, the states, have recognized Palestine as a sovereign state, except America, and America has vetoed it,” Mahdawi said. “So I don't say the war is over before giving Palestinians their rights, the right to self-determination, the right to freedom, the right of return and the right to live in dignity.”The Vermont Conversation also spoke with Bernard Avishai, a visiting professor of government at Dartmouth College, and the author of four books including “The Tragedy of Zionism.” He writes regularly about Israeli politics for the New Yorker, The New York Times Magazine, Politico and other publications. He lives half the year in Israel.“I do feel much more sense of hopefulness that both sides have learned what losses are entailed by this kind of war, and that it might be time to turn the page,” Avishai said. Avishai is a strong critic of Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who he believes “is slowly converting (the) country from an open society to a closed and authoritarian one.”“The real divide in Israel is between supporters of Greater Israel," the nationalist movement intent on taking over Palestinian lands — “and supporters of global Israel," or those who want to integrate Israel into the global economy.Avishai believes that the Netanyahu government must go. “A change of government, a change of face to Israel, will at least begin the process of having Israel kind of rebuild relations with the Western world, but it's a fundamentally dangerous economic situation for Israel to be on the one hand trying to build a global technological center, a hub in the global economy, and at the same time be alienating all the people they have to work with.”Avishai said that Israeli media largely showed images of Israeli losses over the past two years, not Palestinian suffering. “It became tremendously numbing, and we have not, with all that numbing and self absorption and grief, really been able to focus on the cruelty and the difficulties we created in Gaza,” he said. “And I would like to believe that over the next five, six years, we will.”

(0:00) Intro(0:38) Bap ki zindagi mein agar aik beta ghar par paisa lagaye to kya usay virasat mein hissa milega?(11:16) Waldiyat badalna kaise mumkin hai?(12:39) Namaz mein dil na lage to kya karein?(14:55) Aik motivational speaker ko jawab(17:43) Mufti Sahab ne Palestine-Israel issue par Wazir-e-Azam ki tareef kyun ki?(34:31) Aisa hamal zaya karna?(35:31) Bad-akhlaq Aalima bivi ka hal?(36:31) Mohallay ki khatoon agar mithai ka mutalba kare to kya karein?(37:18) Mufti Sahab ke is clip par comments ka jawab Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Bruce Fisk joins Daniel to discuss his research on the weaponization of the Bible and the usage of the language of moral clarity by many prominent Evangelical and other Christian leaders to justify and sanction Israel's genocide in Gaza.Get your own copy of “Being Christian After the Desolation of Gaza”Sign up to join the Palestine solidarity delegation: https://forms.gle/asNkGWXgVB5MRAuZ8 Bruce Fisk is senior research fellow with the Network of Evangelicals for the Middle East and former Professor of New Testament at Westmont College. He has led study programs in Israel/Palestine and is the author of Ascent to Jerusalem: Pilgrimage, Politics and Peacemaking in the Holy Land.Become a monthly supporter of Across the Divide on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide for more on ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.

New Testament professor Ross Wagner (Duke Divinity School) joins Daniel for a conversation about his recent article titled “Being Christian After the Desolation of Gaza”. The conversation ranges from exploring the narratives that Americans tell themselves about Palestinians to a study of the Biblical concepts of Jubilee and  “the year of the Lord's favor.”Purchase your own copy of Being Christian After the Desolation of Gaza”.J. Ross Wagner is Associate Professor of New Testament at Duke Divinity School in Durham, NC, specializing in Paul's letters and Septuagint studies, He is also an Anglican priest.Become a monthly supporter of Across the Divide on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide for more on ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.

The first hour and half of the show was from Sept21st when I figured Id get this sooner- trying not to let jealousy seep in which alters my perception and confronting my mental illness even if it alienates me and briefly going over some political and wrestling discourse before I give a moody brief recap of AEW All Out and WWE Wrestle Palooza.. later on I recap briefly this past week's Raw, NXT TNA and Smackdown. I will do a bonus podcast for the brief recaps of this past week's AEW Dynamite Collision, NXT No Mercy and Tna Victory Road Talk about technically doing comedy during JFL for open mic-mentally overcoming irrational thoughts-making me irrelevant but people still monitoring my moves-Stern reddit needs to incorporate my name to instill more paranoia-reflecting on the humiliation rituals over the last decade-predicting discourse-Trump giving Argentina 20 billion-Palestine/Israel discourse-Alex Jones latest stunt-feeling bad about social interactions-seeing current generation being ignorant which makes me reflect on my mental journey the past 20 years and how people are blinded by fandom-how I had to adjust not being relevant and preparing for the future of what they will lure me into-nep babies in showbiz argument-comedy discourse in Saudi Arabia-Roddy Piper accusation-Kawhi Leonard no work job-Cardi B album discourse-Drake/Lebron-NBA Youngboy violent concerts-abortion and pro life discourse within the entertainment world-Bad reviews if Young Thug's album -Assata Shakur death-Jay Z/Nas competing with casinos -Jay Electronica dropping a lot of music randomly and new music in general that I listened to -alt media acting like they are better than MSM-WWE purposely booking bad shows-people riding billionaires-predicting future Unreal episodes from WWE-Gail Kim becoming a discourse character-Bret Hart and MVP having anti Triple H sentiment-Masha Slamovich being accused of abuse-Jazmyn Nyx suddenly becoming a discourse character-wondering if Ash by Elegance possibly retiring-Charlie Kirk's funeral-right wing mocking Biden's cancer diagnosis-Netanyahu with social media influencers-How people fell for a fake censorship storyline with Jimmy Kimmel -Jamss Comey discourse-Ana Kasparian being rehabbed by the left- South Park calls out Israel-Tylenol-constantly feel I am around agents-people using gimmicked censorship storylines which downplay the real tactics done to censor people-people think Trump is the biggest liar but never think that its the case when he says he hates certain people they want you to cheer and how people think he is suddenly pro Ukraine-ICE Detainment center shot at-still booking comedy discourse over Trump almost tripping-Fox News advocates for bombing UN-more Epstein discourse-closeted republicans -REMINDER BONUS EPISODE INCOMING WITH REMAINING RECAPS..

Hear the compelling story of Elom Tettey-Tamaklo, a former Christian Zionist from Ghana who eventually gets in trouble for his leadership at the Harvard University Gaza encampment. Elom also gave a passionate talk at the recent Church at the Crossroads conference, which we discuss here as well.Born in Atlanta, raised in Accra and Harare, and having worked in Ramallah, Amman, and Philadelphia, Elom has always been enchanted by places and the stories they contain. Elom graduated from Harvard Divinity School in May 2025, focusing on the intersections of lived religion and political culture. His interests revolve around the prophetic imagination, popular resistance to Empire, and global black emancipatory politics. Resources:Clash at the Harvard encampment: https://www.nbcboston.com/video/news/local/video-minor-clash-at-pro-gaza-harvard-die-in/3163853/Some notes about Elom's first time in Palestine: https://www.pym.org/travel-and-witness-grant-elom-tettey-tamaklos-travel-to-ramallah-palestine/Jean Zaru, Occupied with nonviolence https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2714040-occupied-with-nonviolenceHoward Thurman, Jesus and the Disinherited https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Disinherited-Howard-Thurman/dp/0807010294Become a monthly supporter of Across the Divide on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide for more on ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.

In this episode, Leyla King, Palestinian-American Episcopal priest and author, discusses the importance of getting a voice to Palestinian Christians whose stories are often overlooked in the broader conversation about the conflict. By humanizing the Palestinian experience, Western Christians gain a deeper understanding of the situation beyond political headlines.The conversation is based on Leyla's recent book, Daughters of Palestine: A Memoir in Five GenerationsLeyla K. King is a Palestinian-American Episcopal priest and author. She is a founding member of both Palestinian Anglicans and Clergy Allies (www.palestiniananglicans.org) and The Small Churches Big Impact Collective (smallchurchesbigimpact.org). She writes about her experiences as a Palestinian, a clergywoman and a mother at thankfulpriest.com. Daughters of Palestine is her first book. Become a monthly supporter of Across the Divide on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide for more on ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.

In this episode of Occupied Thoughts, FMEP Fellow Ahmed Moor speaks with Daniel Levy, President of the U.S./Middle East Project (USMEP). They discuss Levy's argument that the way that Israel withdrew Israeli settlements from Gaza in 2005 set the stage for today's genocide; as Levy put it in a recent +972 Magazine piece, the current Israeli paradigm is "not just separating from the Palestinians, relegated to shrinking Bantustans, but annihilating and erasing them." Moor and Levy also discuss the impact of Israel's attacks in Qatar this week both in the near and longterm, the need for Netanyahu to formally deny Israeli involvement in the assassination of Charlie Kirk, and shifting political approaches to Israel/Palestine.  Daniel Levy is the President of the U.S./Middle East Project (USMEP), which emphasizes the Palestine-Israel issue alongside regional conflicts, trends and geopolitics. From 2012 to 2016, Levy was Director for the Middle East and North Africa at the European Council on Foreign Relations. Prior to that he was a senior Fellow and Director of the New America Foundation's Middle East Taskforce in Washington D.C. and a Senior Fellow at The Century Foundation in New York. Levy was a Senior Advisor in the Israeli Prime Minister's Office and to Justice Minister Yossi Beilin during the Government of Ehud Barak (1999-2001). He was a member of the official Israeli delegation to the Israel/Palestine peace talks at Taba under Barak and at Oslo B under Yitzhak Rabin (1994-95). Levy is a founder and Advisory Board member of Diaspora Alliance (combatting antisemitism and its conflation), a Council Member of the ECFR, and serves on the board of the European Middle East Project. He is a former Trustee of the Rockefeller Brothers Fund in New York and of the New Israel Fund, a co-founder of J Street, and a founding Editor of the Middle East Channel at foreignpolicy.com.  Ahmed Moor is a Palestinian-American writer born in Gaza and a 2025 Fellow at FMEP. He is an advisory board member of the US Campaign for Palestinian rights, co-editor of After Zionism (Saqi Books) and is currently writing a book about Palestine. He also currently serves on the board of the Independence Media Foundation. His work has been published in The Guardian, The London Review of Books, The Nation, and elsewhere. He earned a BA at the University of Pennsylvania and an MPP at Harvard University. Original music by Jalal Yaquoub.

The first 2 hours of the podcast was before the death of Charlie Kirk took place. This podcast is my interpretation and theories of the discourse nor does it advocate for violence. I freestyle the rants in the beginning about the billionaires creating extremes to make us go more fundamentalist and reactionary and how I had to fight off over the last 10 plus years not to be lured through the targeted harassment And how primitive my conspiratorial outlook was a decade ago-How it has been over 10 years since Trump has been highly focused in the discourse, how corporations have watered down the art forms with political streamers, how they gave Britney Spears limited vindication before advocating for more people controlling her, how it is hard to be comedic when everyday the news is more absurd , Howard Stern's lackluster announcement-Why the Sopranos sub reddit is my last escape, having to look at the overview myself because “smarter” people have let me down, predictive programming in movies, Dream about James Gandolfini-Discussing the death of Charlie Kirk and how the right wing is using this as an excuse to wage war on the marginalized while ignoring other tragic incidents and how limited narratives have brought us here and how things will get more dangerous. Discussing Young Thug leaks from prison and how it is fueling more regressive beef-The latest with Drake and Kendrick and added characters to the cast of this tv series, which music Ive been listening to lately. The promoted discourse over this Epstein and Trump stuff. RFK. getting grilled by other politicians. More on the discourse of which democrats got funded . Palestine/Israel discourse. Putin bombing Poland. Trump posting meme declaring war on Chicago-JD Vance justifying war crimes in Venezuela, using extreme stabbing of Ukrainian refugee. Wrestling discourse about AJ Lee's discourse, Kevin Nash vs Becky. Forced discourse over Nikki Bella vs Wade Barrett-Online fandom dunking on Ronda Rousey's obvious rage bait. Will Vince be back by Cena's last match? MJF Married etc and closing thoughts on wishing violence would stop but too many forces have incentive to keep this going

Professor Ebrahim Moosa joins Daniel for a conversation discussing Muslim support for Palestine. They discuss political Islam, violence, Hamas, and all things controversial. Ebrahim Moosa (PhD, University of Cape Town 1995) is Mirza Family Professor of Islamic Thought and Muslim Societies in the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. He co-directs, with Scott Appleby and Atalia Omer, Contending Modernities, the global research and education initiative examining the interaction among Catholic, Muslim, and other religious and secular forces in the world. He is a faculty fellow of the Keough School's Liu Institute for Asia and Asian Studies.Become a monthly supporter of Across the Divide on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide for more on ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.

Preston Sprinkle joins Daniel for a conversation tackling Evangelical support for pro-Israel. They discuss Preston's journey out of dispensationalism, and tackle the reasons why so many Evangelicals are Zionist and pro-Israel.Preston is an international speaker and a New York Times bestselling author, who's written over a dozen books including his most recent book: Exiles: The Church in the Shadow of Empire. Preston currently serves as the president of The Center for Faith, Sexuality & Gender, an organization that equips Christians to engage questions about faith, sexuality & gender with theological faithfulness and courageous love. And he's also the president of Theology in the Raw, which includes the popular “Theology in the Raw” podcast and the annual “Exiles in Babylon” conference.Become a monthly supporter of Across the Divide on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide for more on ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.

In this episode, Jen speaks with Daoud Nassar, a Palestinian Christian who stewards his family's 100-acre farm located about 6 miles southwest of Bethlehem known as Tent of Nations. They discuss Daoud's family's history, their nearly 40-year legal struggle to keep their land, and the relationship between faith, hope, suffering, and love. Daoud describes his family's commitment to nonviolent Christian peacebuilding, the spirituality of their stewardship of the land, and the necessary relationship between prayer and action.Daoud Nassar is a native of Bethlehem, Palestine. Daoud is a Palestinian Christian activist and farmer. He holds a degree in Biblical Studies from a Bible School in Austria and a degree in Tourism Management from Bielefeld University in Germany. He manages the farm known as Daher's Vineyard located in the West Bank of Palestine and directs the work of the programs and projects at Tent of Nations.Tent of Nations: https://tentofnations.com/ Friends of Tent of Nations North America: https://fotonna.org/Friends of Tent of Nations Netherlands: https://www.freundeskreis-tentofnations.de/enRegister to Church at the Crossroads at ⁠⁠⁠churchatthecrossroads.com⁠⁠⁠ and use the coupon "ATD" for a 10% discount. We'll see you there!Become a monthly supporter of Across the Divide at ⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe and follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.

The 27th annual Kateri Peace Conference will take place in Fonda on August 22nd and 23rd. This year's them is Palestine and Israel: Tragedy, Trauma, Truth and Compassion. This year's Kateri Peace Conference will invite us to grieve together, over the unfathomable suffering of the Palestinian people as well as the Israeli people. For many years, generational trauma born of violence and persecution have been weaponized by the “settler colonialism” of a Zionist vision. Maureen Aumand of Women Against War and a co-coordinator of the Conference talks with Mark Dunlea of Hudson Mohawk Magazine.

Fariza Gulomikova shares with us her journey form Islam to Christian Zionism, and then, later, her conversion out of Christian Zionism into a more Biblical faith grounded in following Christ.Fariza is an entrepreneur and advocate. Born and raised in post-Soviet Tajikistan in a Shia Ismaili Muslim family, she became a Christian at the age of 11. She immigrated to the United States at 18 in pursuit of religious freedom and higher education. She has worked across marketing, media, Christian nonprofits, supporting causes like religious liberty, pro-life initiatives, education, and women's rights. She is the host of The Royal Remnant, a Christ-centered podcast exploring the intersection of faith, culture, and global issues.⁠Check out Fariza⁠'s podcast ⁠The Royal Remnant Podcast ⁠Register to Church at the Crossroads at ⁠⁠churchatthecrossroads.com⁠⁠ and use the coupon "ATD" for a 10% discount. We'll see you there!If you enjoy our content, please consider supporting our work on Patreon at ⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide⁠⁠ Make sure to subscribe and follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.

Discourse podcast and correctly predicting since they start out discussions online, they repeat it when a celeb brings it up like Ari Lennox giving an opinion on a beloved sitcom, people relying on political streamers, going through mental illness and irrational thoughts, forced Shane Gillis controversy, thoughts on Superman, the marketing behind the CEO of Astronomer getting caught at a Coldplay concert, even though I covered it on the last podcast, I talk a little more about Malcolm Jamal Warner and Ozzy Osborne death, Tyler the Creator album thoughts, more on the Drake Kendrick related beef and how congress is trying to pass the Rap act where lyrics won't be used in court which will come in handy when a bunch of wars break out because we are in the beef era, Shannon Sharpe discourse, Jay Z/Kaep discourse, discussions on industry plants, Diddy may be pardoned, going over some of the recent music I have listened to, political discourse with how people dumb down the discourse for sports entertainment especially with the Epstein discourse, Colbert fake censorship storyline, Tulsi's Obama claims, discourse over how AOC voted, Hunter Biden interview, discourse over Jubilee debates, discourse over softball interviews, booking the discourse so regressive that it makes people opt to go in that direction, Candice Owens vs Macron, Palestine/Israel, promotion of South Park calling out Trump, forced Pedro Pascal discourse to promote his latest movie, TYT Rehabbing Tucker Carlson, supposed leftists get outed as being creeps when they gatekeep the scene so they eventually go right and helps discredit being on the left, Midtown Manhattan shooter, Christian Wilkins discourse, some wrestling discourse over Heyman playing into anti Semitic tropes, some more Hulk Hogan discourse and Vince McMahon car accident.. Remember this podcast is just my theories and opinion and irrational thoughts

In this episode, Professors Nathan J. Brown and Shibley Telhami, leading experts on the region and U.S. foreign policy toward Israel, offer a thoughtful examination of the current situation in Israel-Palestine. Our guests provide nuanced analysis of how decades of unsuccessful peace negotiations have transformed the political landscape.The conversation explores the increasingly apparent "one state reality" that exists across territories under Israeli control, challenging traditional diplomatic frameworks that have long focused on a two-state solution. Dr. Brown and Professor Telhami discuss how this reality necessitates reconsidering fundamental concepts of statehood, sovereignty, and national identity that have shaped discourse around the conflict.Our guests provide historical context that helps listeners understand contemporary debates, including controversial questions about the nature of the political system. The discussion offers fresh perspectives on how we might better understand the complex power dynamics and lived experiences of those in the region.This episode presents a valuable opportunity to move beyond conventional political narratives and engage with the challenging realities facing Israelis and Palestinians today, informed by scholarly expertise rather than partisan positioning.  The conversation is based on the book One State Reality: What is Palestine Israel published by Cornell University Press.Support the showSupport the Center for Security, Race and Rights by following us and making a donation: Donate: https://give.rutgersfoundation.org/csrr-support/20046.html Subscribe to our Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEbUfYcWGZapBNYvCObiCpp3qtxgH_jFy Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/rucsrr Follow us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/rutgerscsrr Follow us on Threads: https://threads.com/rutgerscsrr Follow us on Facebook: https://facebook.com/rucsrr Follow us on TikTok: https://tiktok.com/rucsrr Subscribe to our Newsletter: https://csrr.rutgers.edu/newsroom/sign-up-for-newsletter/

Daniel Bannoura is joined by renowned Bible scholar Mike Bird to discuss, among other things, how the Bible has been mishandled by many Christians to justify support for Israel and turn a blind eye to the suffering of the Palestinians. Mike offers important advice on how to read and interpret the Bible and apply it to the world around us. Mike Bird (PhD, University of Queensland) is a “biblical theologian”. He believes that the purpose of the church is to “gospelize,” that is to preach, promote, and practice the Gospel-story of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the author of over 30 books, including the award winning volumes The Gospel of Lord: How the Early Church Wrote the Story of Jesus, Evangelical Theology, and with N.T. Wright, The New Testament in its World.Register to Church at the Crossroads at churchatthecrossroads.com and use the coupon "ATD" for a 10% discount. We'll see you there!If you enjoy our content, please consider supporting our work on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Make sure to subscribe and follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.

In this urgent and powerful episode of the Britain Palestine Project podcast, BPP Chair Andrew Whitley and Trustee Sir Vincent Fean, both with decades of diplomatic and international experience, offer reflections on Britain's historic and current role in the Israel/Palestine crisis.As the war on Gaza intensifies and settler violence escalates in the West Bank, our speakers explore:• Why this is a defining political moment for Britain and the world• What the UK government must do - beyond rhetoric - to uphold international law• The case for recognising the State of Palestine, and why it's not ‘merely symbolic'• How France, the ICJ, and new movements within civil society (including the launch of a new UK political party) are shifting the conversation• The devastating consequences of British inaction, and what pressure points we can use nowThey also discuss the tragic murder of Palestinian activist and friend of the BPP, Owda Hathaleen, and call for justice in the face of ongoing settler violence.

Pastor Nabil Habiby joins Daniel Bannoura to discuss Nabil's article "What do Arab Evangelical Zionists Want?" During the conversation Nabil shares about his background as a Lebanese pastor from a Palestinian background, accusations against him of being dhimmi, and his frustrations with Zionist Christians.Pastor Nabil Habiby serves as a Christian teacher and preacher, particularly for young adults, online, in a local Nazarene Evangelical church in Beirut, in various seminary settings, and for a number of marginalized communities in Beirut, particularly among the LGBT community. Nabil's article: https://wherethevulturesgather.substack.com/p/what-do-arab-evangelical-zionistsRegister to attend Church at the Crossroads and use the coupon "ATD".If you enjoy our content, please consider supporting our work on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.

Dr. Daniel Bannoura (PhD, University of Notre Dame) is a Palestinian theologian. His research focuses on the Quran, Christian-Muslim relations, and Palestinian theology. He's also a co-host of "Across the Divide", a podcast on faith and politics in the context of Palestine-Israel. And he's on the organizational team for the upcoming “Church at the Crossroads” conference outside of Chicago this coming September (11-13). Recieve $20 off registration for the Church at the Crossroads conference by entering "TITR" upon checkout. Listen to Daniel's podcast Across the Divide. Click on this link to find Daniel's resource list for Israel-Palestine: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JHWbiYVQ4sD5gX-o0yHC-5hXnY1KPf0kBvw2rZSJfiE/edit?usp=sharing Join the Theology in the Raw community for as little as $5/month to get access to premium content.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dr. Daniel Bannoura (PhD, University of Notre Dame) is a Palestinian theologian. His research focuses on the Quran, Christian-Muslim relations, and Palestinian theology. He's also a co-host of "Across the Divide", a podcast on faith and politics in the context of Palestine-Israel. And he's on the organizational team for the upcoming “Church at the Crossroads” conference outside of Chicago this coming September (11-13). Recieve $20 off registration for the Church at the Crossroads conference by entering "TITR" upon checkout. Listen to Daniel's podcast Across the Divide. Click on this link to find Daniel's resource list for Israel-Palestine: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JHWbiYVQ4sD5gX-o0yHC-5hXnY1KPf0kBvw2rZSJfiE/edit?usp=sharing Join the Theology in the Raw community for as little as $5/month to get access to premium content. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of the Faith and Activism series, Abeer speaks with Thanh Nguyen, a Vietnamese American peacebuilder and researcher currently working with Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center in East Jerusalem. They discuss how colonial histories and theological frameworks shape global understandings of justice in Palestine/Israel. Drawing from Thanh's experience in faith-based organizing and decolonial research, the conversation explores how theology can be reimagined through the lens of justice, indigenous worldviews, and collective liberation.For our Patreon supporters, Thanh shares one of her original poems reflecting on displacement, belonging, and resistance—and reflects on how art can become a powerful tool in movements for justice and healing. To access this extended conversation and others, consider supporting us on ⁠Patreon⁠.Thanh Nguyen is a peacebuilder and researcher working at the intersection of religion and development. Currently a Project Coordinator at Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center in East Jerusalem, she leads strategic partnerships, hosts educational programs, and supports peacebuilding delegations to Palestine/Israel. As a first-generation Vietnamese American whose own history is situated in colonial war, Thanh's peace work prioritizes subaltern knowledge,  resistance to historical amnesia, and indigenous political perspectives. While pursuing a B.A. in political science and international peace studies at the University of Notre Dame, she explored issues of religion, secularity, and coloniality. Her research, commitment, and leadership earned her the Kroc Institute's 2023 Peter Yarrow Award in Peace Studies. Beyond her academic and advocacy work, Thanh is also a poet and writer, with work on colonial displacement and belonging featured in Re:Visions Magazine, Silk Road Review, Decolonial Passages, and independent film/art productions. Moving forward, she aims to continue merging scholarship, activism, and storytelling in her pursuit of collective liberation.If you enjoy our content, please consider supporting our work on Patreon at ⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide⁠⁠ Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠ and⁠⁠ ⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with ⁠⁠Peace Catalyst International⁠⁠ to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.Show Noteshttps://www.peacecatalyst.org/blog/2024/9/12/meet-2024-rick-love-young-innovator-award-recipient-thanh-nguyenhttps://thedecolonialpassage.net/2024/03/23/a-song-about-living/https://subalternarchives.substack.com/https://sabeel.org/

This episode is a live-recorded conversation that Across the Divide held as an event for the local community in Cincinnati, OH on May 29, 2025. The conversation explores the intersections between faith and activism across religious traditions. In it, Jen has a conversation with three local faith leaders and activists–Muslim, Jewish, and Christian. Because this episode was recorded during a live event, the audio and video quality may vary from our typical episodes.It was a joy to collaborate with the Cincinnati Palestine Solidarity Coalition on this event, a local Cincinnati-based coalition that comes together in solidarity with the struggle for justice, liberation and self-determination of Palestinian and all oppressed people in the world. Special thanks to Mike Madanat and Kristen Annette for helping envision and coordinate this conversation. We are very grateful to the Church of the Advent in Walnut Hills, a curious and creative Episcopal community, for hosting this event. A very special thanks to Megan Suttman and Jacob Taylor for making all of this happen.The recorded Q&A with the panelists from this conversation is available as a bonus clip for our Patreon supporters. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. The speakers you hear from in this episode are:Rev. Abby is a Presbyterian pastor who has mostly served outside traditional congregations and has mostly worked for Catholic organizations... mostly in Cincinnati. Moshe is a community organizer from Cincinnati  and a co-founder and prayer leader for Shema Cincinnati,  a pluralistic community of Jews who are working to develop community, religious practice, and political action beyond Zionism, in service to a Judaism rooted in solidarity, compassion, and liberation.Lena is a Palestinian American health education specialist and co-founder of SILA, a streetwear brand that celebrates identity, resistance, and connection. She was born in the US and raised in Palestine, and is a member of the Cincinnati Palestine Solidarity Coalition.Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.Show Notes:https://linktr.ee/cincypalestinesolidarity https://www.adventcincy.org/https://linktr.ee/ShemaCincinnati https://silamovement.com/collections/for-palestine

World news in 7 minutes. Friday 27th June 2025.Today: Kenya protest deaths. CAR stampede. Ukraine Europe tribunal. North Korea tourism. China floods. Palestine Israel update. Japan bear airport. Ecuador recapture. Dollar down. Plastic paracetamol.Ask Me Anything - Send questions at send7.orgAsk Me Anything Christmas 2024 : https://www.spreaker.com/episode/ask-me-anything-2024--63465061Ask Me Anything Christmas 2023 : https://www.spreaker.com/episode/bonus-your-stories-ask-me-anything--58107490SEND7 is supported by our amazing listeners like you.Our supporters get access to the transcripts and vocabulary list written by us every day.Our supporters get access to an English worksheet made by us once per week.Our supporters get access to our weekly news quiz made by us once per week.We give 10% of our profit to Effective Altruism charities. You can become a supporter at send7.org/supportContact us at podcast@send7.org or send an audio message at speakpipe.com/send7Please leave a rating on Apple podcasts or Spotify.We don't use AI! Every word is written and recorded by us!Since 2020, SEND7 (Simple English News Daily in 7 minutes) has been telling the most important world news stories in intermediate English. Every day, listen to the most important stories from every part of the world in slow, clear English. Whether you are an intermediate learner trying to improve your advanced, technical and business English, or if you are a native speaker who just wants to hear a summary of world news as fast as possible, join Stephen Devincenzi and Juliet Martin every morning. Transcripts, vocabulary lists, worksheets and our weekly world news quiz are available for our amazing supporters at send7.org. Simple English News Daily is the perfect way to start your day, by practising your listening skills and understanding complicated daily news in a simple way. It is also highly valuable for IELTS and TOEFL students. Students, teachers, TEFL teachers, and people with English as a second language, tell us that they use SEND7 because they can learn English through hard topics, but simple grammar. We believe that the best way to improve your spoken English is to immerse yourself in real-life content, such as what our podcast provides. SEND7 covers all news including politics, business, natural events and human rights. Whether it is happening in Europe, Africa, Asia, the Americas or Oceania, you will hear it on SEND7, and you will understand it.Get your daily news and improve your English listening in the time it takes to make a coffee.For more information visit send7.org/contact or send an email to podcast@send7.org

A message from GeekWire co-founder Todd Bishop: This episode of the GeekWire Podcast is unlike any we’ve done before. It touches on some of the most contentious and disputed issues in the tech industry, and in the world more broadly. It started with my curiosity and desire to understand something that happened in March, at GeekWire’s independent Microsoft @ 50 event. I was on stage interviewing Microsoft Vice Chair and President Brad Smith when the conversation was interrupted by a protester. The group behind the protest, called No Azure for Apartheid, represents current and former Microsoft employees who want the company to end its cloud computing and AI contracts with the Israeli military. They cite concerns over how they believe their work is being used by Israel. Addressing the larger issues raised by the group, Microsoft said in a May 15 post that it conducted internal and external reviews and “found no evidence to date that Microsoft’s Azure and AI technologies have been used to target or harm people in the conflict in Gaza.” After covering Microsoft’s statements and the group’s response — and seeing the continued protests unfold at Microsoft events — I decided to dig deeper and learn more. As part of that, I invited one of the organizers of No Azure for Apartheid to join me on this podcast, for a conversation about the motivations behind the group, their views on Microsoft’s responsibilities, and how the tech industry intersects with international conflicts. Our guest is software engineer Hossam Nasr, who was fired by Microsoft last year related to protests on the Microsoft campus. In fact, he was the first to protest inside the GeekWire event. What followed was a complex conversation — one that at times went beyond Microsoft’s role into broader political and ethical criticisms of Israel’s actions in Gaza. These are deeply polarizing issues, and we know there are strong, divergent opinions about them. I’ve added context conveying Microsoft’s responses, and noting areas where statements and characterizations about Israel, Palestine, and Gaza are the subject of dispute. The conversation includes detailed descriptions of the ongoing conflict in Gaza and some historical comparisons that some listeners may find disturbing or offensive. And lastly, we recorded this conversation in late May, before the latest developments in the Middle East. Related Links: Microsoft: Statement on the Issues Relating to Technology Services in Israel and Gaza Associated Press: As Israel uses US-made AI models in war, concerns arise about tech’s role in who lives and who dies AP: Microsoft fires employees who organized vigil for Palestinians killed in Gaza +972: Leaked documents expose deep ties between Israeli army and Microsoft The Verge: Microsoft blocks emails that contain ‘Palestine’ after employee protests Guardian: Microsoft deepened ties with Israeli military to provide tech support during Gaza war Editing by Curt Milton. Read more at GeekWire.com.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode, the finale of the Touring the Holy Land Series, Jen has a conversation with Saleem Anfous. As they reflect on the tourism series as a whole and the importance of these conversations in the current context, Saleem shares from his experience as a tour guide in Palestine and Across the Divide's producer. Saleem reflects on the opportunities for mutual transformation that he has witnessed through guiding Christians in the Holy Land. This episode also features excerpts from interviews with Palestinian Christians that explore the impact of tourism on Palestinian Christian communities. At the end of the episode, Jen and Saleem make a special announcement about a unique opportunity to travel with Across the Divide in 2026.In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Jen and Salem chat about Saleem's hometown Aboud, and its rich Christian history and present realities in the context of occupation. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Saleem Anfous is a tour guide in Bethlehem and the West Bank, a Project Manager for the Muslim/Christian Young Adults program at Musalaha, and serves as the producer of the Across the Divide podcast.If you enjoy our content, please consider supporting our work on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.

Take the survey: http://tiny.cc/846   BestPodcastintheMetaverse.com Canary Cry News Talk #846 - 06.02.2025 - Recorded Live to 1s and 0s Deconstructing World Events from a Biblical Worldview Declaring Jesus as Lord amidst the Fifth Generation War! CageRattlerCoffee.com SD/TC email Ike for discount   SHOW NOTES/TIMESTAMPS HELLO WORLD Netanyahu on “free palestine” (video 1) 7:27 Man firebombs pro israel crowd   EXEC/PRODUCERS 34:57 “free palestine” Alex Karp (video 2) 48:40 Palantir and israel gaza (the nation)   Palantir - lord of the rings.    Trump taps Palentir (NYT) Alex Karp Roll in CV (Vid 3) Alex Jones on Alex Karp (Video 4)   Beast SYSTEM 1:48:10 Alex Karp Alex, Palantir, 2015 (Forbes) Alex Karp is the new Political Category (Washington Monthly) Alex Karp “humiliate your enemy” Vid 5   PRODUCERS 2:53:01   Starbase - network state 3:21:48   END 3:30:45 Show length 3:40:16

Send us a texti am NOT an expert on what is happening in Palestine/Israel, but i do know when it is time to say, "This is NOT okay!" and i have done enough reading and listening and watching to share some thoughts...An 'Israel/Palestine for Dummies' conversation for anyone who still doesn't get it or who think it all began on October 7th 2024 and especially for any people of faith who still back Israel.= = = = = = = = = =The book i reference that was super helpful to me is 'On Palestine' by Noam Chomsky and Ilan Pappé Some of the novels that helped me understand the context include Blood Brothers – Elias Chacour and The Lemon Tree – Sandy Tolan.The British MP i reference who changed his tune on Israel is Tory MP Mark Pritchard Two helpful faith conversations to watch on this topic are this one by Rev Munther Isaac from Christ at the Checkpoint conference in 2024: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MieRvpAsXywAnd this titled 'A Christ-Centered Response in times of war' by Dr Lamma Mansour - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyufVi2mdsA&t=553sSupport the showContact BrettFish:Tweet me at @FishbowlCodcast or @BrettFishABecome a Patreon of the PodcastThanks for listening and please share your thoughts and reflections on this episode...

In this episode of the Touring the Holy Land Series, Jen has a conversation with Rev. Dr. Mae Elise Cannon, the executive director of Churches for Middle East Peace. Mae shares some of her transformative experiences traveling and leading trips in Palestine-Israel. She unpacks the role that privilege plays when foreigners travel to the region, emphasizing the cognitive dissonance  that travelers often face when encountering conflicting narratives and the systemic injustices that Palestinians endure. Mae shares about how Churches for Middle East Peace facilitates Christian Holy Land pilgrimages, fostering transformative possibilities for Christian peacebuilding through multi-narrative trips that uplift diverse perspectives from Palestinians and Israelis.In their extended conversation for our Patreon supporters, Jennifer and Mae discuss the impact of Christian pilgrimage on Palestinian communities, highlighting both the economic and emotional significance of solidarity. To access this extended conversation and others, consider ⁠supporting us on Patreon⁠. Rev. Dr. Mae Elise Cannon is the executive director of Churches for Middle East Peace. Cannon formerly served as the senior director of Advocacy and Outreach for World Vision U.S. on Capitol Hill in Washington, DC; as a consultant to the Middle East for child advocacy issues for Compassion International in Jerusalem; as the executive pastor of Hillside Covenant Church located in Walnut Creek, California; and as director of development and transformation for extension ministries at Willow Creek Community Church in Barrington, Illinois. Cannon holds an MDiv from North Park Theological Seminary, an MBA from North Park University's School of Business and Nonprofit Management, and an MA in bioethics from Trinity International University. She received her first doctorate in American History with a minor in Middle Eastern studies at the University of California (Davis) focusing on the history of the American Protestant church in Israel and Palestine and her second doctorate in Ministry in Spiritual Formation from Northern Theological Seminary. She is the author of several books including the award-winning Social Justice Handbook: Small Steps for a Better World and editor of A Land Full of God: Christian Perspectives on the Holy Land. Her work has been highlighted in The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, Chicago Tribune, Christianity Today, Leadership Magazine, The Christian Post, Jerusalem Post, EU Parliament Magazine, Huffington Post, and other international media outlets.If you enjoy our content, please consider supporting our work on Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/AcrosstheDivide Follow Across the Divide on ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠⁠⁠‪@AcrosstheDividePodcast‬⁠⁠⁠Across the Divide partners with Peace Catalyst International to amplify the pursuit of peace and explore the vital intersection of Christian faith and social justice in Palestine-Israel.Show Notes:Vox article on the influence of the book Exodus by Leon UrisCMEP TripsCMEP Action alert

In this episode of Occupied Thoughts, FMEP Fellow Peter Beinart speaks with Dr. Lara Jirmanus and Professor Atalia Omer about the Harvard University's two new reports, one on Islamophobia and anti-Palestinian bias and the other on antisemitism and anti-Israel bias. They discuss the quality of the reports, how the antisemitism report erases Jews who are critical of Israel, and what the potential impact is for a report on Islamophobia, anti-Arab and Anti-Palestinian bigotry.  For more, see the two Harvard reports: Combating Anti-Muslim, Anti-Arab, and Anti-Palestinian Bias" and "Combating Antisemitism and Anti-Israeli Bias."  Dr. Lara Jirmanus is a family physician and a Clinical Instructor at Harvard Medical School. Lara has been involved in grassroots organizing, advocacy and research for many years, addressing worker and immigrant rights in the US, infectious diseases in Brazil and the impact of conflict and displacement in the Middle East. She recently published "Harvard talks free speech but silences Palestine" (Al Jazeera May 7, 2025).  Atalia Omer, PhD is professor of religion, conflict, and peace studies in the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame and a core faculty member of the Keough School's Kroc Institute for International Peace Studies. Her research focuses on religion, violence, and peacebuilding as well as theories and methods in the study of religion and Palestine/Israel. Atalia  earned her PhD in religion, ethics, and politics from the Committee on the Study of Religion at Harvard University and she was, until recently, a senior fellow at Harvard Divinity School's Religion and Public Life's Religion, Conflict, and Peace Initiative. Atalia is also on the Board of Directors of the Foundation for Middle East Peace. She recently published "I'm an Israeli professor. Why is my work in Harvard's antisemitism report?" (The Guardian, May 9, 2025.) Original music by Jalal Yaquoub.

In this episode, A'ndre speaks with Dr. Yousef Munayyer, Senior Fellow at the Arab Center Washington DC, about recent U.S. policy developments affecting pro-Palestinian activism, including efforts by the Trump administration to deport foreign students and activists involved in campus protests.The conversation explores how the war in Gaza is shaping political expression in the United States, particularly in the context of university activism, and examines broader questions around immigration policy, civic space, and public discourse. Dr. Munayyer also provides his view on U.S. support for Israel and how this is influencing domestic debates.Topics covered include:The current state of the conflict in Gaza and U.S. policy under both Biden and TrumpThe status of the two-state solution and implications of regional diplomacyCampus protests and public discourse surrounding Israel-PalestineRecent deportation efforts impacting international studentsThe intersection of foreign policy, free expression, and immigration enforcementPossible long-term impacts on U.S. civic space and international engagementDr. Munayyer authored a chapter Suppressing Dissent: Shrinking Civic Space, Transnational Repression, and Palestine-Israel, which you can find here.