Podcasts about israeli palestinian

Today's WKXL NH Unscripted guest, via call in, was film director Michael Dahan to talk about his film YES REPEAT NO. About the film: “An experimental drama where three actors audition to portray Juliano Mer-Khamis, the Palestinian-Jewish activist who called himself “100% Palestinian and 100% Jewish” before his assassination in 2011. Shot in black and white, it's a meta exploration of identity and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict…During a tense rehearsal meant to determine which of them is most suited for the portrayal the three Julianos find their sense-of-self fractured and disrupted.”

Today's guest via call in was film director Michael Dahan to talk about his film YES REPEAT NO. About the film: "An experimental drama where three actors audition to portray Juliano Mer-Khamis, the Palestinian-Jewish activist who called himself "100% Palestinian and 100% Jewish" before his assassination in 2011. Shot in black and white, it's a meta exploration of identity and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict...During a tense rehearsal meant to determine which of them is most suited for the portrayal the three Julianos find their sense-of-self fractured and disrupted.”

Are we in a 'plastic moment,' an inflection point where the future of the Middle East can finally be reshaped? Veteran peace negotiator Dr. Tal Becker joins the podcast to analyze the shifting tides of regional diplomacy. Reflecting on his recent discussions in Abu Dhabi, Becker describes the Abraham Accords as an emerging "Judeo-Muslim civilization" where the focus isn't on "who the land belongs to," but the realization that "we all belong to the land."  Beyond geopolitics, Becker addresses the trauma of rising Western antisemitism—which he likens to a "zombie apocalypse"—and calls for a resurgence of liberal nationalism. This episode is a masterclass in navigating a zero-sum world to build a future of prosperity, courage, and shared belonging. Key Resources: The Abraham Accords, Explained AJC CEO Ted Deutch Op-Ed: 5 Years On, the Abraham Accords Are the Middle East's Best Hope AJC's Center for a New Middle East Listen – AJC Podcasts: Architects of Peace The Forgotten Exodus People of the Pod Follow People of the Pod on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod You can reach us at: peopleofthepod@ajc.org If you've appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Transcript of the Interview: Manya Brachear Pashman:   As the international community looks to phase two of the cease fire between Israel and the Hamas terror group in Gaza, the American Jewish Committee office in Abu Dhabi invited Dr Tal Becker to participate in discussions about what's next for the region. Dr Becker is one of Israel's leading experts on international humanitarian law and a veteran peace negotiator with Palestinians, Lebanese and Syrians. He is currently vice president of the Shalom Hartman Institute, and he joins us now right after the conference in Abu Dhabi to share some of the insights he contributed there.  Tal, welcome to People of the Pod. Tal Becker:   Thank you very much, Manya. Manya Brachear Pashman:   So Tal, you have just returned from a conference in Abu Dhabi where you really took a deep dive, kind of exploring the nature of Arab-Israeli relations, as we are now entering the second phase of the ceasefire between Israel and Gaza.  So I'm just curious, you've been steeped in this for so long, for decades, do you sense, or did you sense a significant shift in the region when it comes to Arab-Israeli relations and the future? Tal Becker:   So I think Manya, we're at a very kind of interesting moment, and it's hard to say exactly which direction it's going, because, on the one hand, we have had very significant military successes. I think a lot of the spoilers in the region have been significantly set back, though they're still there, but Israel really has had to focus on the military side of things a lot. And it, I think, has strained to some extent, the view of what's possible because we're being so focused on the military side.  And I think it is a moment for imagining what's possible. And how do we pivot out of the tragedy and suffering of this war, make the most of the military successes we've had, and really begin to imagine what this region could look like if we're going to continue to succeed in pushing back the spoilers in this way.  Israel is a regional power, and I think it for all our vulnerability that requires, to some extent, for Israel to really articulate a vision that it has for the region. And it's going to take a little bit of time, I think, for everybody to really internalize what's just happened over these last two years and what it means for the potential for good and how we navigate that. So I really think it's kind of like what they call a plastic moment right now. Manya Brachear Pashman:   A plastic moment, can you define that, what do you mean by plastic? Tal Becker:   So what I mean by a plastic moment, meaning it's that moment. It's an inflection point right where, where things could go in one direction or another, and you have to be smart enough to take advantage of the fluidity of the moment, to really emphasize how do we maximize prosperity, stability, coexistence? How do we take away not just the capabilities of the enemies of peace, but also the appeal of their agenda, the language that they use, the way they try to present Muslim Jewish relations, as if they're a kind of zero sum game. So how do we operate both on the economic side, on the security side, but also on the imagining what's possible side, on the peace side. As difficult as that is, and I don't want to suggest that, you know, there aren't serious obstacles, there are, but there's also really serious opportunities. Manya Brachear Pashman:   So what did you sense when you were there, in terms of the perception of Israel? I mean, were people optimistic, for lack of a better term? Tal Becker:   So first of all, it was, you know, a great opportunity to be there. And having been involved, personally, very intensively in the Abraham Accords, I always feel a bit emotional whenever I'm in the Emirates in particular, and Morocco and Bahrain and so on. And to be honest, I kind of feel at home there. And so that's a lovely thing.  I think, on the one hand, I would say there's a there's a relief that hopefully, please God, the war in Gaza is is behind us, that we're now looking at how to really kind of move into the phase of the disarmament of Hamas and the removal of Hamas from governance, you know, working with the Trump team and the Trump plan. And I think they have a bunch of questions. The Emiratis in particular, are strategic thinkers. They really want to be partners in advancing prosperity and stability across the region in pushing back extremism across the region, and I think they're eager to see in Israel a partner for that effort. And I think it puts also a responsibility on both of us to understand the concerns we each have. I mean, it takes some time to really internalize what it is for a country to face a seven-front war with organizations that call for its annihilation, and all the pressure and anxiety that that produces for a people, frankly, that hasn't had the easiest history in terms of the agenda of people hating the Jewish people and persecuting them. So I think that takes a bit of appreciation.  I think we also, in the return, need to appreciate the concerns of our regional partners in terms of making sure that the region is stable, in terms of giving an opportunity for, you know, one way I sometimes word it is that, we need to prepare for the worst case scenario. We need to prevent it from being a self fulfilling prophecy.  Which really requires you to kind of develop a policy that nevertheless gives an opportunity for things to get better, not just plan for things to get worse. And I think our partners in the Gulf in particular really want to hear from us, what we can do to make things better, even while we're planning and maybe even a bit cynical that things might be very difficult. Manya Brachear Pashman:   So you mentioned the Abraham Accords, and I'm curious if you feel that Israel, I know Israel has felt isolated, at times, very isolated, and perhaps abandoned, is even the correct word.  Do you feel that is the case as we enter the second phase of the ceasefire? Do you feel that is less so the case, and do you feel that that might be less so the case because of the Abraham Accords existence? Tal Becker:   Well, so let's first talk about the Abraham Accords and their significance.So I think a lot of people present the Abraham accords as kind of an agreement that is about shared interests and shared challenges and so on, and that's definitely true. But they are, in my view, at least aspirationally, something much bigger than that. First of all, they are almost the articulation of what I call a Judeo Muslim civilization, the view that Jews and Muslims, or that all different peoples of the Middle East belong to this place and have a responsibility for shaping its future. The way I describe the Abraham Accords is that they're a group of countries who basically have said that the argument about who the land belongs to is not as important as the understanding that we all belong to the land. And as a result of that, this is kind of a partnership against the forces of extremism and chaos, and really offering a version of Israeli Jewish identity and of Muslim Arab identity that is in competition with the Iranian-Hezbollah-Hamas narrative that kind of condemns us to this zero sum conflict.  So the first thing to say is that I think the Abraham Accords have such tremendous potential for reimagining the relationship between Muslims and Jews, for reimagining the future of the region, and for really making sure that the enemies of peace no longer shape our agenda, even if they're still there. So in that sense, the opening that the Abraham Accords offers is an opening to kind of reimagine the region as a whole. And I think that's really important. And I think we have now an opportunity to deepen the Accords, potentially to expand them to other countries, and in doing so, to kind of set back the forces of extremism in the region. In a strange way, I would say Manya that Israel is more challenged right now in the west than we are in the Middle East. Because in the West, you see, I mean, there's backlash, and it's a complicated picture, but you can see a kind of increasing voices that challenge Israel's legitimacy, that are really questioning our story. And you see that both on the extreme left and extreme right in different countries across the West, in different degrees. In the Middle East, paradoxically, you have at least a partnership around accepting one another within the region that seems to me to be very promising.  And in part, I have to say it's really important to understand, for all the tragedy and difficulty of this war, Israel demonstrated an unbelievable resilience, unbelievable strength in dealing with its its adversaries, an unbelievable capacity, despite this seven front challenge, and I think that itself, in a region that's a very difficult region, is attractive. I think we do have a responsibility and an interest in imagining how we can begin to heal, if that's a word we can use the Israeli Palestinian relationship, at least move in a better direction. Use the Trump plan to do that, because that, I think, will also help our relationship in the region as a whole, without making one dependent on the other. Manya Brachear Pashman:   So I want to follow up with what you just said, that Israel faces perhaps many more challenges in the west than in the region. What about the Jewish people, would you apply that same statement to the Jewish people? Tal Becker:   Well, I think, you know, we've seen, we've seen the rise of antisemitism. And in my view, one way to think about October 7 is that October 7 marks the end of the post-Holocaust era. So there were a few decades there where, even if antisemitism existed, there were many circles in which it was socially unacceptable to give it voice. And something has shattered in the West in particular that it seems to be more socially acceptable to express antisemitism or antisemitic-adjacent type views, and that, I think has has really shocked and shaken many Jews across the western world.  I guess the thing I would say about that is, you know, some of the Jews I come across in the West were under, in my view, a bit of an illusion, that antisemitism had somehow been cured. You feel this sometimes in North America, and that essentially, we had reached a stage in Jewish history where antisemitism was broadly a thing of the past and was on the margins, and then the ferocity with which it came back on October 8 was like a trauma. And one of the definitions of trauma is that trauma is a severe challenge to the way you understand the world and your place in it.  And so if you had this understanding of your reality that antisemitism was essentially a thing of the past in North America in particular. And then all of a sudden it came back. You can see that traumatic experience. And what I want to argue or suggest is that the problem isn't that we had the solution and lost it. I think the problem was we had an illusion that there was a solution in the first place. Unfortunately, I think the Jewish people's history tells the story that antisemitism is kind of like the zombie apocalypse. It never exactly disappears. You can sometimes marginalize it more or marginalize it less. And we're now entering an era which I think Jews are familiar with, which is an era that it is becoming more socially acceptable to be antisemitic. And that to some extent, Jewish communal life feels more conditional and Jewish identity, and while being accepted in the societies in which you live also feels more conditional.  And while that is a familiar pattern, we are probably the generation of Jews with more resources, more influence, more power, more capacity than probably at any other time in Jewish history. And so it would be a mistake, I think, to think of us as kind of going back to some previous era. Yes, there are these challenges, but there are also a whole set of tools. We didn't have the F35 during the Spanish Inquisition.  So I think that despite all these challenges, it's also a great moment of opportunity for really building Jewish communities that are resilient, that have strong Jewish identity, that are that have a depth of Jewish literacy, and trying to inoculate as much as possible the societies in which we live and the communities in which we live from that phenomenon of antisemitism perhaps better than we had had done in previous iterations of this.  Manya Brachear Pashman:   I also want to go back and explore another term that you've used a couple of times, and that is enemies of peace. And I'm curious how you define the enemies of peace. Who are you talking about? And I'm asking you to kind of take a step back and really broaden that definition as much as possible. Tal Becker:   I mean, it goes back to that idea that I mentioned about the Abraham Accords, which is an understanding that there are different peoples in the Middle East that call it home, and each of those peoples deserves a place where they can nurture their identity and cultivate it and have their legitimacy respected, and in that sense, those who are engaged in a kind of zero sum competition, that feel that their exist, existence depends on the obliteration of the other. I see those as enemies of peace.  Now, I believe that both Jews and Palestinians, for example, have a right to self determination. I think that both belong in the sense that both deserve the capacity to cultivate their own identity. But the right to self determination, for example, the Palestinian right to self determination doesn't include the right to deny the Jewish right to self determination. It doesn't include the right to erase Jewish history.  In the same way that we as Jews need to come to terms with the fact that the Palestinian people feel a real connection to this place. Now, it's very difficult, given how radicalized Palestinian society is, and we have to be very realistic about the threats we face, because for as long as the dominant narrative in Palestinian society is a rejection of Jewish belongingness and self determination, we have a very difficult challenge ahead of us. But I essentially, broadly speaking, would say, the enemies of peace are those who want to lock us into a zero sum contest. Where essentially, they view the welfare of the other as a threat to themselves. Y You know, we have no conflict with Lebanon. We have no conflict with the people of Iran, for example. We have a conflict, in fact, a zero sum conflict with an Iranian regime that wants to annihilate Israel. And I often point to this kind of discrepancy that Iran would like to destroy Israel, and Israel has the audacity to want not to be destroyed by Iran. That is not an equivalent moral playing field. And so I view the Iranian regime with that kind of agenda, as an enemy of peace. And I think Israel has an obligation to also articulate what its aspirations are in those regards, even if it's a long time horizon to realize those aspirations, because the enemies are out there, and they do need to be confronted effectively and pretty relentlessly. Manya Brachear Pashman:   For our series on the Abraham Accords, Architects of Peace, I spoke with Dr Ali Al Nuami, and we talked about the need for the narrative to change, and the narrative on both sides right, the narrative change about kind of what you refer to as a zero sum game, and for the narrative, especially out of Israel, about the Palestinians to change. And I'm curious if you've given that any thought about changing, or just Israel's ability or obligation to send a message about the need for the Palestinians indeed to achieve self determination and thrive. Tal Becker:   Well, I think first, it's important to articulate how difficult that is, simply because, I mean, Israel has faced now two years of war, and the sense that I think many Israelis felt was that Palestinian society at large was not opposed to what happened on October 7, and the dominant narratives in Palestinian society, whether viewing Israel as some kind of a front to Islam, or viewing Israel as a kind of colonial enterprise to then be like in the business of suggesting a positive vision in the face of that is very difficult, and we do tend Manya, in these situations, when we say the narrative has to change, we then say, on the other side, they have to change the narrative, rather than directing that to ourselves. So I think, you know, there is an obligation for everyone to think about how best to articulate their vision.  It's a huge, I think, obligation on the Palestinian leadership, and it's a very one they've proved incapable of doing until now, which is genuinely come to terms with the Jewish people's belongingness to this part of the world and to their right to self determination. It's a core aspect of the difficulty in addressing this conflict. And having said all that, I think we as Israeli Jews also have an obligation to offer that positive vision. In my mind, there is nothing wrong with articulating an aspiration you're not sure you can realize, or you don't even know how to realize. But simply to signal that is the direction that I'm going in, you know?  I mean Prime Minister Netanyahu, for example, talks about that he wants the Palestinian people to have all the power to govern themselves and none of the power to threaten Israel. Which is a way of saying that the Palestinian people should have that capacity of self determination that gives them the potential for peace, prosperity, dignity, and security, But not if the purpose of that is to essentially be more focused on destroying Israel than it is on building up Palestinian identity. Now that I think, can be articulated in positive terms, without denying Israel's connection to the land, without denying the Jewish people's story, but recognizing the other. And yes, I think despite all the difficulties, victory in war is also about what you want to build, not just what you want to destroy. And in that sense, our ability to kind of frame what we're doing in positive terms, in other words, not just how we want to take away the capacities of the extremists, but what we want to build, if we had partners for that, actually helps create that momentum. So I would just say to Dr Ali's point that, I think that's a shared burden on all of us, and the more people that can use that language, it can actually, I think, help to create the spaces where things that feel not possible begin to maybe become possible. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Which in many ways Trump's 20 point plan does that. It doesn't just only talk about disarming Hamas. It talks about rebuilding Gaza. Are there other ways in which Israel can assure the success of the Palestinian people and push forwards. Can you envision other ways? Tal Becker:   Well, I mean, I'm sure there's lots that people can do, but there is a burden on the Palestinian people themselves, and I do find that a lot of this discourse kind of takes agency away from the Palestinian people and their leadership. In a way, there's a kind of honesty to the Trump plan and the Security Council resolution that was adopted endorsing the plan that has been missing for quite a while. The Trump plan, interestingly, says three things.  It says, on this issue of a kind of vision or pathway. It says, first of all, it basically says there is no Palestinian state today, which must have come as a bit of a shock for those countries recognizing a Palestinian state. But I think that is a common understanding. It's a little bit of an illusion to imagine that state.  The second thing is how critical it is for there to be PA reform, genuine reform so that there is a responsible function in Palestinian governing authority that can actually be focused on the welfare of its people and govern well.  And the third is that then creates a potential pathway for increasing Palestinian self-determination and moving potentially towards Palestinian statehood, I think, provided that that entity is not going to be used as a kind of terror state or a failed state. But that, I think, is a kind of honest way of framing the issue. But we don't get around Manya the need for responsibility, for agency. So yes, Israel has responsibility. Yes, the countries of the region have responsibilities.  But ultimately, the core constituency that needs to demonstrate that it is shifting its mindset and more focused on building itself up, rather than telling a story about how it is seeking to deny Jewish self determination, is the Palestinian leadership. And I do think that what's happening in Gaza at least gives the potential for that.  You have the potential for an alternative Palestinian governance to emerge. You have the potential for Hamas to be set back in a way that it no longer has a governing role or a shape in shaping the agenda. And I think if we can make Gaza gradually a success story, you know, this is a bit too optimistic for an Israeli to say, but maybe, maybe we can begin to create a momentum that can redefine the Israeli Palestinian relationship. Manya Brachear Pashman:   So I asked what can Israel do to move forward to assure the Palestinians that they are behind their success and thriving? What can Israel do to make sure that it's respected, that is not facing the challenges from the West, from that region. What can Israel do? What is Israel's obligation, or is that an unfair question, to ensure its success and its moving forward? Tal Becker:   I think it's a really difficult question, because the criticism that Israel has gotten throughout this war and the threats to its legitimacy in the way that they've erupted, I think, is a really complicated phenomena that has many moving parts. So some part of it, I think, rightly, is about Israeli policy and Israeli language and the way it has framed what it has been doing, and really the unbelievable moral dilemmas that the war in Gaza posed, and how Israel conducted itself in the way of those dilemmas. And people can have different views about that.  I think there's a misunderstanding, very significantly, of the nature of the battlefield and how impossible Hamas in its deliberate kind of weaponization of the civilian population, made that. So there's one component that has to do with Israel. There's another component that we can't ignore, that has to do with antisemitism. And that, I think, for that group right who almost define themselves through their hostility towards the Jewish people and towards the very idea of Jewish self determination, it's hard to think anything that Israel says or does that actually matters, right? These were the people who were criticizing Israel even before it responded.  And so in that sense, I think putting too much on Israel is a problem. Maybe I'll just focus on the area that I think is most interesting here, and that is, in my view, a lot of the argument about Israel in the West, we'll take the US, for example, is actually not an argument about Israel, but more an argument about the US that is channeled through Israel. In other words, a lot of people seem to be having their argument about America's story of itself channeled through their argument about Israel. And what they're actually arguing about is their vision of America.  And you can see different versions of this. There's a story of America as perhaps a kind of white Christian country that was exploited by immigrants and is exploited by other countries in the world, and that narrative kind of tends pushes you in a direction of having a certain view, in my view, mistaken, in any event, about Israel. That is more to do about your story of America than it has anything to do with what Israel is doing or saying. And then you hear this very loudly, and I'm not suggesting these are exactly even.  But on the more radical kind of progressive left, you have a story of America as essentially a country that never came over the legacy of slavery, a country that has to kind of apologize for its power, that it sees itself as a colonial entity that can't be redeemed. And when you're kind of locked in that version of America, which I kind of think is a kind of self hating story of America. Then that then projects the way you view Israel more than anything Israel says or does. So this has a lot to do with America's, and this is true of other countries in the West, that internal struggle and then the way different actors, especially in the social media age, need to position themselves on the Israel issue, to identify which tribe they belong to in this other battle.  So in my view, people who care about the US-Israel relationship, for example, would be wise to invest in this, in the battle over America's story of itself, and in that sense, it's less about Israeli public diplomacy and less about Israeli policy. It's much more about the glasses people wear when they look at Israel. And how do you influence those glasses? Manya Brachear Pashman:   I could sit here and talk to you all day, this is really fascinating and thought provoking. I do want to ask two more questions, though, and one is, I've been harping on what can Israel do? What are Israel's obligations?  But let me back up a step. What about the Arab states? What are the other neighbors in the region obligated to do to assure the Palestinians that they're going to succeed and thrive? Tal Becker:   Yeah, I mean, it's a really important question and, and I think that for many, many years, we suffered from, I would say, a basic lack of courage from Arab states. I'm generalizing, but I hope that others would advance their interests for them. And in some sense, I think the Abraham Accords really flipped that, because Abraham Accords was the Arab states having the courage and the voice to say, we need to redefine our relationship with with Israel, and in that way, create conditions, potentially for Palestinians to do, to do the same.  I would say that there are a whole set right, and, not my position to kind of be the lecturer, and each country is different in their own dynamics. I think the first from an Israeli perspective, of course, is to really push back against this attempt to delegitimize the Jewish people's belonging in the Middle East, and not to allow this kind of narrative where the only authentic way to be a Palestinian or a Muslim is to reject the idea that other peoples live in the region and have a story that connects them to it, and Israel is here to stay, and it can be a partner. You can have disagreements with it. But the idea that it's some kind of illegitimate entity, I think, needs to be taken out of the lexicon fundamentally. I think a second area is in really this expectation of Palestinian especially in the Israeli Palestinian context, of being partners in holding the Palestinians accountable not to have the kind of the soft bigotry of low expectations, and to really recognize Palestinian agency, Palestinian responsibility and also Palestinian rights, yes, but not in this kind of comic strip, victim villain narrative, where Israel has all the responsibilities and the Palestinians have all the rights. My colleague, Einat Wilf, for example, talks about Schrodinger's Palestine. You know, Schrodinger's Cat, right? So Schrodinger's Palestine is that the Palestinians are recognized for rights, but they're not recognized for responsibilities. And Israel has rights and responsibilities. And finally, I would say in terms of the the taking seriously the spoilers in the region, and working with Israel and with our partners to make sure that the spoilers in the region don't dictate the agenda and don't have the capacity to do so, not just hoping that that, you know, Israel and the US will take care of that, but really working with us. And I think a few countries are really stepping up in that regard. They have their own constraints, and we need to be respectful of that, and I understand that.  But I think that, you know, this is a strategic partnership. I sometimes joke that with the Emirates, it's a Jewish and a Muslim state, but it's a Catholic marriage. We've kind of decided to bind together in this kind of strategic partnership that has withstood these last two years, because we want to share a vision of the Middle East that is to the benefit of all peoples, and that means doing kind of three things at once. Meaning confronting the spoilers on the one hand, investing in regional integration on the other, and seeing how we can improve Israeli Palestinian relations at the same time. So working in parallel on all three issues and helping each other in the process and each other thrive. I mean, there's a whole bunch of stuff beyond the conflict. There's, you know, AI and fighting desertification and irrigation and defense tech and intelligence, and a whole host of areas where we can cooperate and empower each other and be genuine partners and strengthen our own societies and the welfare of our own peoples through that partnership for ourselves, for each other and for the region. So there's a lot to do. Manya Brachear Pashman:   And my last question – I've asked, what do the Arab states need to do? What does Israel need to do? What do Jewish advocates around the world need to do?  Tal Becker:   So I think the most important thing at this moment for me, Manya, is courage. There is a danger, because of the rise in antisemitism and the kind of hostility that one sees, that Jews in particular will become more silent. And they'll kind of hide a little bit in the hope that this will somehow pass them. And I think what our history has taught us, is generally, these are phenomena that if you don't stand up against them early, they become extremely powerful down the line, and you can't, and it becomes very, very costly to confront them.  So it takes courage, but I would say that communities can show more courage than individuals can, and in that sense, I think, you know, insisting on the rights of Jews within the societies in which they live, fighting for those kind of societies, that all peoples can prosper in. Being strong advocates for a kind of society in which Jews are able to thrive and be resilient and prosper, as well as others as well. I think is very important.  Just in a nutshell, I will say that it seems to me that in much of the world, what we're seeing is liberalism being kind of hijacked by a radical version of progressivism, and nationalism being hijacked by a version of ultra-nationalism. And for Jews and for most people, the best place to be is in liberal nationalism. Liberal nationalism offers you respect for collective identity on the one hand, but also respect for individual autonomy on the other right. That's the beautiful blend of liberal nationalism in that way, at least aspirationally, Israel, being a Jewish and democratic state, is really about, on the one hand, being part of a story bigger than yourself, but on the other hand, living a society that sees individual rights and individual agency and autonomy. And that blend is critical for human thriving and for meaning, and it's been critical for Jews as well. And so particularly across the diaspora, really fighting for liberal national identity, which is being assaulted from the extremes on both sides, seems to me to be an urgent mission. And it's urgent not just for Jews to be able not to kind of live conditionally and under fear and intimidation within the societies they live, but as we've seen throughout history, it's pretty critical for the thriving of that society itself.  At the end of the day, the societies that get cannibalized by extremes end up being societies that rot from within. And so I would say Jews need to be advocates for their own rights. Double down on Jewish identity, on resilience and on literacy, on Jewish literacy. At the same time as fighting for the kind of society in which the extremes don't shape the agenda. That would be my wish. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Making liberal nationalism an urgent mission for all societies, in other words, being a force for good. Tal Becker:   Yes, of course. Manya Brachear Pashman:   Our universal mission. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for sharing all of these thoughts with us and safe travels as you take off for the next destination. Tal Becker:   Thank you very much, Manya. I appreciate it. Manya Brachear Pashman:   As we approach the end of the year, and what a year it's been, take some time to catch up on episodes you might have missed along the way, rewind and listen to some of my more memorable interviews, such as my conversation with former Israeli hostage Shoshan Haran, abducted with her daughter, son in law and grandchildren during the Hamas terror attack on October 7, 2023. Meet doctors or hen and Ernest Frankel, two MIT professors who amid anti Israel academic boycotts, are trying to salvage the valuable research gains through collaboration with Israeli scholars. And enjoy my frank conversation with Jonah Platt, best known for playing Fiyero in Broadway's wicked who now hosts his own hit podcast Being Jewish with Jonah Platt. Hard to believe all of this and more has unfolded in 2025 alone. May 2026 be peaceful and prosperous for us all.  

Subscribe now to skip ads, get bonus content, and enjoy 24/7 access to the entire catalog of 500 episodes. He's been called the world's most important prisoner, or the Palestinian "Nelson Mandela." Convicted on terrorism-related charges in 2004 during the Second Intifada, Marwan Barghouti is serving a life sentence in Israeli prison. However, his name continues to surface in negotiations over prisoner exchanges, and President Donald Trump has also mentioned that Barghouti's case was brought to his attention. This is because Barghouti is by far the most popular Palestinian political figure today, at a time when his people are desperate for unifying leadership. In this episode, the scholar Khaled Elgindy of the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft discusses Barghouti's life story, which traces the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Andrew P Miller, the former deputy assistant secretary of state for Israeli-Palestinian affairs, on how Washington and Tel Aviv’s relationship should change. Plus: a new insight into urban policy and Konfekt’s best hosting tips.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Send us a textUnderstanding Israel Palestine: Beyond the Walls – The Oligarchs, The Spies, and The Grand Bargain that Sold Out the Palestinians and the United States Host: Jeremy Rothe-Kushel Guests: Seth Abramson (Proof), Richard Silverstein (Tikun Olam)Episode Summary: For this episode, I feature segments of 2 interviews from the last half of 2020 with public interest writers & analysts Seth Abramson and Richard Silverstein, both quite prescient in their insights into the current geopolitical crisis surrounding the Russian invasion of Ukraine, most glaring in the international relational faultlines constructed amongst the United States & the Middle East, especially the Israeli security state and its Emirati and Saudi state partners, directly tied to the geopolitical collusion to attack American elections while selling out the Palestinians, and the role of Russian sphere Kremlin-associated oligarchs, some publicly defended from sanctions by Israeli officials, in sponsoring the escalation of Israeli settler politics bent on ethnically cleansing the Palestinian people.Government officials and the media largely told us that the 2016 election interference was just about Russian "troll farms." They lied by omission. In this explosive episode of Understanding Israel Palestine: Beyond the Walls, we tear down the firewall between "Russiagate" and the Middle East to reveal the true geopolitical architecture of the Trump era.We go deep with Seth Abramson, author of the Proof trilogy, to decode the Senate Intelligence Committee's massive Volume 5 report. Abramson exposes what the Mueller Report ignored: the "Grand Bargain" between the Trump campaign, Russia, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE. We track the fingerprints of Israeli cyber-intelligence mercenaries like Psy-Group and Joel Zamel, the shadowy role of George Nader, and the August 2016 Trump Tower meeting that cemented an alliance of autocrats against democracy and Palestinian rights.Then, we pivot to the money trail with security journalist Richard Silverstein. Breaking down the FinCEN files, Silverstein reveals how Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich funneled over $100 million into Elad, the settler organization aggressively "Judaizing" East Jerusalem. We discuss how dirty money from the post-Soviet sphere is being laundered into the ethnic cleansing of Silwan, turning the biblical "City of David" into a weapon of displacement.This is the deep politics of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict—where intelligence operations, oligarchic wealth, and settler ideology collide to sell out the Palestinian people and compromise the American republic.Featured Guests:Seth Abramson [PROOF]: https://www.sethabramson.net Richard Silverstein [TIKUN OLAM]: https://www.richardsilverstein.comHost/Producer: Jeremy Rothe-Kushel [BEYOND THE WALLS]: https://beyondthewalls.substack.com

A profound conversation with Professor Raphael Cohen-Almagor on how Holocaust memory shaped his life's mission: defending human rights, challenging occupation, building bridges, and proposing realistic pathways toward Israeli-Palestinian peace. A powerful exploration of ethics, leadership and moral courage.00:39- About Prof Raphael Cohen-AlmagorRaphael is a professor of political science.He's co-founder of The Second Generation to the Holocaust and Heroism Remembrance. He's also the founder and director of the Center of Democratic Studies at the University of Haifa.

The conversation explores the complex dynamics of the Middle East, focusing on Israel's position regarding the two-state solution, the role of Saudi Arabia in the peace process, and the implications of U.S. foreign policy. The speakers discuss the historical context of Israeli-Palestinian relations, the potential for economic ties to foster peace, and the impact of tourism on cultural exchange. They also touch on the evolving landscape of regional alliances and the significance of the Abraham Accords.We want to hear from YOU! If you would like to submit a question or comment for further discussion, please email us at: questions@abideministries.com.

When countries can commit genocide or invade neighbours with few repercussions, it's clear that international norms and laws are not working. On the podcast, three legal experts discuss the problems and some steps forward, from decentralised ways of enforcing criminal law, to including non-state actors, to erasing the legal loopholes used to justify violence. Guests:  Neve Gordon, professor of international law and human rights at Queen Mary University of London and a fellow of the British Academy of Social Sciences. He has written extensively about the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, the bombing of healthcare facilities, and coined the term "medical lawfare." Oona Hathaway, professor of international law at Yale Law School who has been a member of the Advisory Committee on International Law for the legal adviser at the US Department of State since 2005 and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations since 2011. She is working on a book titled "War Unbound: Gaza, Ukraine, and the Breakdown of International Law". Michael Addo, law professor at the University of Notre Dame and lawyer with expertise in international human rights law and international business policy. The UN Human Rights Council appointed him in 2011 to join its Working Group on Business and Human Rights, which he currently chairs. Got a question or feedback? Email podcast@thenewhumanitarian.org or post on social media using the hashtag #RethinkingHumanitarianism.

Host Sarah Henry is joined by international lawyer Eitan Diamond, who specialises in international humanitarian law and human rights law. As Manager and Senior Legal Expert at the IHL Centre, Eitan leads efforts in the Israeli-Palestinian context.   Discussing the ongoing challenges faced by human rights organisations, he speaks about Israeli-imposed restrictions on humanitarian and human rights groups operating in the region and emphasises the crucial role of civic society in holding governments accountable under international law.    Learn more about working in the field of IHL and IHRL as this episode explores the intersection of international law, justice, and activism, offering insights on how we should continue to push for change and accountability.    About Eitan Diamond     Eitan Diamond is an international lawyer specialising in international humanitarian law (IHL) and international human rights law. He serves as Manager and Senior Legal Expert at the IHL Centre overseeing its work in the Israeli-Palestinian context. He also serves on the managerial boards of the NGOs Public Committee against Torture in Israel and Parents against Child Detention, and on the editorial board of the Journal of International Humanitarian Legal Studies.   Eitan has previously worked, inter alia, as an expert consultant for UNICEF, for the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR), and at the research centre Forensic Architecture; as Executive Director of the NGO Gisha; as a Legal Advisor for the Delegation of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) in Israel and the Occupied Territories; and as Researcher and Legal Advisor for the NGO B'Tselem.   Alongside his work as a practitioner, Eitan engages in academic research and has a range of publications on IHL-related themes. His academic qualifications include a PhD from the Meitar Centre for Advanced Legal Studies at Tel Aviv University's Faculty of Law; an LLM in Public International Law from the London School of Economics and Political Science, where he was a Chevening Scholar; and an LLB from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. He is also a recipient of a Diploma in Human Rights awarded by the Academy of European Law at the European University Institute.        To find out more about the work and organisations discussed in this episode, please see the following links:   For general information about the IHL Centre's work in Israel Palestine: https://www.diakonia.se/ihl/jerusalem/  Links to our publications are available here: https://www.diakonia.se/ihl/news/?category=israel-palestine-publication   An Easy Guide on IHL for professionals working in the oPt: https://www.diakonia.se/ihl/news/easy-guide-to-international-humanitarian-law/  A resource for our publications regarding the hostilities and violence in the oPt: https://www.diakonia.se/ihl/jerusalem/2023-2024-hostilities-escalating-violence-opt/  A resource for our publications regarding legal proceedings before international court relating to Israel and the oPt: https://www.diakonia.se/ihl/jerusalem/proceedings-before-international-courts-relating-to-israel-and-the-opt/  A resource for our publications regarding shrinking civic and humanitarian space in Israel-Palestine: https://www.diakonia.se/ihl/jerusalem/shrinking-space/  You can also follow Eitan Diamond's work here:  LinkedIn and SSRN

I asked a search engine. - why are people boycotting Coca Cola?People are boycotting Coca-Cola due to concerns over its alleged involvement in unethical labor practices, environmental issues, and its operations in disputed regions, particularly in relation to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Additionally, rumors about the company laying off Latino workers and reporting them to immigration officials have fueled calls for a boycott among Latino communities.I can't believe anyone in Ireland going around an Irish supermarket feels Coca Cola is the right sponsor for ‘the magic of Christmas'Christ under the Rubble:https://youtu.be/Q-1brSPn66w?si=FVNeuagt9CZmPkpF

When Dublin officials moved to strip the name of Chaim Herzog—Israel's Irish-born sixth president—from a community park, it wasn't just a local dispute. It was an act of erasure. In this emotional episode, Dr. Alexandra Herzog, AJC's Director of the William Petschek Global Jewish Communities Department, explains why this attempt to rewrite history should alarm not only Jews, but all citizens of goodwill. As anti-Zionist fervor increasingly targets Jewish identity across the West, the push to remove a Jewish name from a park beside Ireland's only Jewish school sends a chilling message: Jewish heritage has now become a political battleground. Alexandra shares personal memories of her grandfather and illustrates why this fight isn't about a plaque in Ireland—it's about halting the slide from criticism of Israel into the deletion of Jewish memory. Tune in to understand why defending this history is essential to protecting Jewish dignity everywhere. Key Resources: AJC Welcomes Dublin City Council's Decision to Shelve Renaming of Herzog Park Letter in the Irish Times: Renaming Herzog Park in Dublin Would Be An Act of Erasure Against Ireland's Jews Listen: Will Ireland Finally Stop Paying Lip Service When it Comes to Combating Antisemitism? AJC Directly Addresses Antisemitism and Vilification of Israel in Ireland with the Prime Minister Listen – AJC Podcasts: Architects of Peace The Forgotten Exodus People of the Pod Follow People of the Pod on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/PeopleofthePod You can reach us at: peopleofthepod@ajc.org If you've appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Read the full transcript: https://www.ajc.org/news/podcast/erasing-jewish-history-why-what-happened-in-ireland-should-alarm-all-jews Transcript of the Interview: Manya Brachear Pashman:     Members of the City Council of Dublin, Ireland have withdrawn a proposal to rename a park that since 1995 has honored former Israeli President Chaim Herzog. The park, located near Dublin's only Jewish school, is named after Herzog, Israel's sixth president, who was born in Belfast.  Here to talk about the now withdrawn proposal is Alexandra Herzog, AJC's Director of the William Petschek Global Jewish Communities Department, and Chaim Herzog's granddaughter. Alexandra, welcome to People of the Pod. Alexandra Herzog:     Thank you so much for having me, Manya. Manya Brachear Pashman:     So you have joined us before, but on a different podcast, The Forgotten Exodus, which is our narrative series about Jews from the Middle East and North Africa. You were joining us to talk about your maternal grandfather, Nessim Gaon, the longtime president of the World Sephardi Federation. He came to Israel from Sudan. But this time, we're talking about your paternal grandfather, Chaim Herzog. How did someone born in Ireland later become President of Israel? Alexandra Herzog:     Yes, that's a great question. Manya, so my grandfather, Chaim Herzog, was, as you said, born in Belfast. He grew up in Dublin in a very proudly Jewish home. His father actually was a Rabbi Isaac Halevi Herzog, and he served as the Rabbi of Belfast before becoming the chief rabbi of Ireland. So he moved from Belfast to Dublin in 1919. He was affectionately known as the Sinn Féin rabbi, and he was highly respected and close to many of the leaders of the Irish independence movement. So my grandfather really grew up in a house that was deeply steeped in Jewish learning, in Irish patriotism, and he had a very strong sense of moral responsibility.  And as a young man, he had to leave Ireland to study, and he later enlisted in the British Army during World War Two, he fought the Nazis as an intelligence officer. He was one of the first soldiers actually to enter the concentration camp of Bergen Belsen, and he interrogated senior Nazi officials. Now, after the war, he moved to what would become the State of Israel, and he helped build the very young country, almost from its founding, in different positions.  And you know, then later, he became Israel's ambassador to the UN and a member of the Israeli parliament, the Knesset. And by the time he was elected as Israel's sixth president in 1983 he was widely seen really, as a statesman who combined Irish warmth and some storytelling with a very deep sense of Jewish history and Jewish responsibility.  He never stopped describing himself, actually, as an Irish born man. and he often spoke about how Ireland really shaped his worldview, and his commitment to freedom and to democracy. Manya Brachear Pashman:     And you mentioned that he was the ambassador to the United Nations. He was, in fact, Ambassador when the resolution Zionism is Racism was, was part of the conversation. Alexandra Herzog:     That's right. Yes, one of the two UN resolutions ever to be withdrawn and canceled, very important one. That's right.  Manya Brachear Pashman:     In fact, if I'm not mistaken, he tore it in half. Alexandra Herzog:     He did. He tore it in half saying that this was nothing but a piece of paper, and explained how, you know, we could not equate Zionism to racism in any sort of way. Manya Brachear Pashman:     So were those the reasons why, in 1995, the Dublin City Council decided to name the park after your grandfather? Or were there other reasons? Yeah. Alexandra Herzog:     I mean, I think that, you know, I think it was a gesture, really, of recognition, of pride. I mean, Dublin was basically honoring an Irish man, you know, one of its own, an Irish born Jew who had gone to become, it's true, a global statesman, the President of Israel, but who really never stopped speaking about his Irish roots. And I think that that was really a source of pride for him, but also for Ireland in general, for many, many years.  And as you said, you know, Herzog Park really sits in a very historically Jewish neighborhood. It's near, actually, where my family lived, where my grandfather grew up, and it's right next to the country's only Jewish school. So naming a park for my grandfather was, I think, really a way of acknowledging this deep Irish Jewish history, and the fact that it is part of Irish history. So I think that my family story is very much woven into the country's broader story of independence, of democracy and of moral courage, really. Manya Brachear Pashman:     Yet 30 years later, there has been an attempt to rename that park and strip that name from the park. Why? What happened in 30 years? Alexandra Herzog:     It's a great question. I think that in the past three decades, you know, we've really seen the Israeli Palestinian conflict become a proxy battlefield for broader political debates in Europe, but also really everywhere around the world. In Ireland, the criticism of Israeli policies, of the Israeli government, has increasingly blurred into hostility towards Israel as a whole, and at times even towards Israelis and towards Jews.  What is really striking about this proposal is that it doesn't target a policy or even a government decision within Ireland. It targets a piece of Jewish and Irish history. So instead of creating a new space or a memorial, the proposal really sought to erase an existing Jewish name. And I think that that shift from debate to erasure, because that's really what we're talking about, is what worries me the most. It reflects really a climate in which maybe some feel that expressing solidarity with Palestinians require overriding an important part of Jewish history and Jewish presence. Jewish memory, really.  So one of their proposals is actually to rename it Free Palestine park, or to rename it after, you know, a Palestinian child. Obviously from a personal perspective, it's extremely problematic to remove a Jewish name to replace it by another group. We don't need to do that. We can recognize the realities and the lived experiences of both groups without having to erase one over another. Manya Brachear Pashman:     I should note that last year, Israel recalled its ambassador, and in December, closed its embassy in Dublin, accusing the Irish government of extreme anti-Israel policies, antisemitic rhetoric and double standards. So really, taking the debate to extremes, and that the, in fact, the tiny Jewish community that is still there about–would you say about 3000 people in the Irish Jewish community? Alexandra Herzog:    That's right. Manya Brachear Pashman:    They're facing antisemitism as well. We actually interviewed our colleague, AJC's Director of International Jewish Affairs, Rabbi Andrew Baker, at the time, just about a year ago, because he also serves as the Personal Representative on Combating Antisemitism and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe.  So he had just met with the Irish Prime Minister whose administration had recently adopted the international Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's Working Definition of Antisemitism. So I'm curious now with this attempt to rename the park and do something so harsh to erase Jewish history, has that definition been implemented, or has it failed to be implemented? Alexandra Herzog:     Yeah, I think that the adoption of the IHRA working definition of antisemitism by the Irish government was really an important and a very welcome step. On paper, you know, it gives officials and institutions, law enforcement, a shared framework, really, for recognizing antisemitism, including when it appears in the guise of anti-Israel rhetoric. I think that the challenge, really, as always, is implementation. So from what I hear in conversations with the Irish Jewish community, and you know, Jewish community leaders and colleagues who follow these issues very closely, there's still a significant gap between the formal adoption of the IHRA and the day to day practice. Whether it's in, you know, political discourse or in education, or even how incidents are simply discussed or understood. And I think that the current controversy here that we're talking about with Herzog Park is a perfect example of that. If you apply the IHRA seriously, then you see very quickly how targeting a specifically Jewish symbol in a Jewish neighborhood, in order to make a political point about Israel, actually crosses the line into antisemitism. So I think that if we could really work on the implementation much more, that would be extremely positive. Manya Brachear Pashman:     And in fact, the prime minister himself actually condemned the attempt by the Dublin City Council to rename the park, correct, he encouraged the withdrawal of this proposal? Alexandra Herzog:     That's correct. Both the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister actually issued statements saying that this proposal should not have come  to even be considered, and that they should be withdrawn. And I'm very grateful for their leadership in that.  And I think that it's important, though, to underline the fact that it is not, you know, just a global form of antisemitism, but that it is really an expressed form of antisemitism on the ground, really erasing Jewish history and blaming an entire Jewish population for what is happening miles and miles away is antisemitism. Manya Brachear Pashman:     So what are you hearing from the tiny Jewish community there? Are you in touch with people there? Do you still have relatives who live in Ireland? Alexandra Herzog:     I sadly don't have relatives there anymore, but I am in contact with the Jewish community. And I think that, you know, it's a community that really has a lot of pride in their Jewish history and their Irish history and in their Irish roots. I think there is a feeling, what I'm hearing from them, that there is a bit of a mix of fatigue also, and of anxiety. And you know this, we're talking, as we said before, about a very small community, about 3000 Jews. It's a close knit community that has contributed far beyond its size to Irish society.  They love Ireland, and they feel deeply Irish, but in the past years, and especially since October 7, they have felt increasingly targeted, and they often have felt exposed, misunderstood. So I think that incidents like the proposed renaming of the park lands particularly hard because it's not abstract. It's a park that's in their neighborhood, that's next to their children's school, and bearing the name of someone who for them symbolizes their connection to Ireland. So to see this name singled out really sends a chilling message that, you know, Jewish presence, Jewish history are negotiable. Manya Brachear Pashman:     You know, we talked about similar issues when we talked about your maternal grandfather in Sudan and the erasure of Jewish history across the Middle East and North Africa in these countries where Jews fled. Would you say that there are parallels here? Or is that, is that an unfair statement? Is that taking it too far? Alexandra Herzog:     I mean, I think that, in general, the notion of commemoration, the notion of really talking about one's history is, is a problematic one, when those commemorations, or those celebrations of memory, of Jewish memory and Jewish impact, are being erased because of the connection with Israel. And when people use the platform to accuse Israel of genocide, they distort history. They weaponize really Jewish suffering.  I think that there is something to be said there. And, you know, it's the same idea as, you know, removing a Jewish name from a park in order to make that political point about Israel. I think that it is something that we're seeing way too much. It is a very slippery slope, and it's something that we should be 100% avoiding. Because Jewish memory, whether it be, you know, like a commemoration about like, what happened to Jews from our fleeing Arab lands, what happened during the Holocaust, anything that has to do with Jewish memory, it needs to be preserved.  It needs to be honored on its own terms. It cannot be repurposed or overwritten to serve certain political narratives or even certain political accusations that like the ones that we're hearing right now, to me, that is very deeply troubling, and it's something that Jewish communities worldwide, I think, are experiencing more and more unfortunately. Manya Brachear Pashman:     So I wanted to ask you, your grandfather passed away in 1997. This park was named two years earlier. Was he present for that dedication? Alexandra Herzog:     Yeah, unfortunately, he wasn't able to attend the inauguration. He was still alive, that's true when the park was named, and he was deeply touched by the gesture. I think that for him, it really symbolized a bit of a full circle somehow. You know, the Irish boy who became President of Israel, who's being honored in the neighborhood where his story really began. I think that there was something very powerful and beautiful about it. For the 100th anniversary of my grandfather's birth in 2018 the family actually went to the park and got the dedication plaque up. And you know, that was a very meaningful event. Manya Brachear Pashman:    It must be heartbreaking for you to know that they want to tear that plaque down now. Alexandra Herzog:     I know how proud my grandfather was of his Irish roots. I know the work that my great-grandfather did in Ireland for Irish independence. And I think that it's completely uncalled for right now to rewrite history and to pretend that our family's story has no place in this country that meant so much for two generations of my family, and really even as a statement for Israel. My grandfather always, you know, talked about Ireland, and really always had this pride. So it touches very deeply.  I think it really gives the very wrong message to young Jews and children who are growing up in a country where they are such a minority, I think that we have to put things in perspective a little bit. And, you know, I imagine being a kid and seeing like the name of somebody who maybe symbolizes something for you, their name being removed.It sends a message that really should not be out there in any kind of way and is not justified. Manya Brachear Pashman:     You knew your grandfather. Did he share stories about his childhood, and was there anything as you were standing in that park that reflected those stories? Alexandra Herzog:     Yeah, I had the very big privilege to know my grandfather very well, to spend a lot of time with him. I'm his first grandchild, so we spent a lot of time together. We shared a deep passion together for history, for literature, for politics, but also for nature. For me, before any before being a public figure, he really was my grandfather, my Saba. Someone who was warm, who was funny, who was very present as a grandfather, who would take me to the garden and show me all of his fruit trees that he was so very proud. And I had this feeling, I mean, the park, this park is very small. It's a tiny, you know, it's a tiny park, but somehow is so meaningful to him. And I know that he loved living in that neighborhood. It was very hard for him to leave Ireland and, you know, go to what was then Palestine. So it's something that I really felt very strongly when I was there, and that I think that our family thinks about often. Manya Brachear Pashman:     Well, Alexandra, I am so glad that the Dublin City Council tabled this proposal for the time being. And I appreciate you sharing some memories about your grandfather and putting this in perspective for our listeners. Alexandra Herzog:     Thank you very much. It was an honor. Manya Brachear Pashman: You can hear the story of Alexandra Herzog's maternal grandfather Nissim Gaon and the challenges he and his family faced in Sudan in the first season of our award-winning series The Forgotten Exodus. In 12 episodes, we also share the erased or often-forgotten stories of Jewish families who left or were driven from their homes in the Middle East and North Africa. And don't forget to listen to our most recent series about reconciliation in the region: Architects of Peace: The Abraham Accords Story.   

Noam Weissman talks with journalist and author Yardena Schwartz about her book Ghosts of a Holy War and how the 1929 Hebron massacre helped ignite the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. They trace the century-long thread of the cry “Al-Aqsa is in danger”—how Grand Mufti Hajj Amin al-Husseini weaponized it in 1929, tied it to his alliance with Nazi Germany, and how those myths continue to fuel violence from the Hebron riots to the Second Intifada to Hamas's “Al-Aqsa Flood.” Along the way, they explore Hebron's sacred place in Jewish history, the trauma of 1929, the rise of the settlement movement, the Jewish underground's plan to bomb the Dome of the Rock, and Baruch Goldstein's 1994 attack. They end in present-day Hebron—H1 and H2—meeting Palestinians and Israelis who still believe a different future is possible. Here is a link to Ghosts of a Holy War, The 1929 Massacre in Palestine That Ignited the Arab-Israeli Conflict, by Yardena Schwarz. This episode is in memory of Leo M. Bernstein. To sponsor an episode or to be in touch, please email noam@unpacked.media. Check us out on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Youtube.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠This podcast was brought to you by Unpacked, an OpenDor Media brand. ------------------- For other podcasts from Unpacked, check out: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jewish History Nerds⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Soulful Jewish Living⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Stars of David with Elon Gold ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Wondering Jews⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Today's top headlines: Woman injured in North Charleston shooting on Thanksgiving Day, police say Investigators plead for tips after 3 children, 1 adult killed in shooting at child’s birthday party Lowcountry organization gives back to foster care children during the holidays Feeding Families Holiday Food DriveCharleston’s holiday season begins with the ‘Light the Lake’ celebration Trump issues White House invitation to families of the two National Guard members who were shot Pope Leo XIV doubles down on insistence for 2-state solution to resolve Israeli-Palestinian conflict High school coach wanted on child porn charges last seen walking to woods with gun, family says US halts all asylum decisions after shooting of National Guard members

It's Wednesday, November 26th, A.D. 2025. This is The Worldview in 5 Minutes heard on 140 radio stations and at www.TheWorldview.com.  Written by Jonathan Clark.  Filling in for Adam McManus I'm Ean Leppin. (Contact@eanvoiceit.com) Christian Institute Proposed Street Preacher Charter. Officials in the U.K. are increasingly targeting Christians who express their faith in public. In response, the Christian Institute launched its new “Street Preacher's Charter” in Parliament last week. The document defends the rights of street preachers in England and Wales. The wrongful arrest of a Scottish preacher in 2022 inspired the charter. Mike Judge, a trustee of The Christian Institute, said, “This Charter is a timely shield for those who dare to speak — and a timely corrective for a society tempted to silence them.” U.K. Street Preacher Acquitted A jury in the U.K. acquitted a street preacher recently. The case began after a Muslim family reported street preacher Shaun O'Sullivan to authorities. Officials charged him with religiously aggravated intentional harassment. However, O'Sullivan testified in court that he simply preaches the Gospel in public after being saved from a life of crime and violence. Andrea Williams with the Christian Legal Centre said, “This was another example of police overreach . . . The acquittal is . . . a reminder of the fragile state of fundamental freedoms in our country right now.” When commanded not to preach, the apostles said in Acts 4:19-20, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge. For we cannot but speak about the things which we have seen and heard.” Christian Universities to Launch Outreach to Europe One of the largest Christian universities in the United States is launching outreach to Europe to counter the rise of secularism there. Liberty University of Lynchburg, Virginia is now offering over 600 online degrees to students in Europe.  Lucian Mustata is Liberty's European representative for the project. He told Christian Daily International, “we need to invest in the next generation. In the long term, secularism grows in Europe because we're not investing in teenagers and the next generation with Christian values. It's very important to have Christian education in Europe.” Trump Designates the Muslim Brotherhood as Terrorist Organization On Monday, President Donald Trump signed an executive order to designate certain chapters of the Muslim Brotherhood as foreign terrorist organizations.  The organization was founded in 1928 with chapters across the Middle East. Last week, Texas Republican Gov. Greg Abbott similarly designated the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization. He said the goal of the group is to “forcibly impose Sharia law . . . These radical extremists are not welcome in our state and are now prohibited from acquiring any real property interest in Texas.”  This coming on the heels of a report released called The Muslim Brotherhood Strategic Entryism into the United States.  Chris Mitchell from CBN News has more concerning this report. MITCHELL: “And what it does, and why this is so significant – it exposes a generational strategy to impose Shariah Law on the United States. They call it “a civilizational struggle,” and it's based on four pillars. One is influencing public policy. Two, influencing legal strategies, and what that tries to do is minimize criticism of Islam and turn that into charges of Islamphobia and charges of discrimination. Number three is infiltration of institutions – charities, universities, schools, and even to influence Middle East studies in those universities. And, four is to control the narrative through the medium, to shake the public debate. A key issue in this is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. We've heard charges of Palestine, from the river to the sea, globalize the Intifadah. That puts it in context, is what they're trying to do is just influence media, the society, and then just introduce, in a gradual way, Shariah Law.” Planned Parenthood Forced to Shut Down Centers Due to Financial Strain Planned Parenthood announced yesterday it is closing one of its locations in Ohio. The abortion giant has now closed 45 centers so far this year. Many closures are due to the Trump administration's support for defunding abortion providers. A recent report from Planned Parenthood admits, “Already buckling under immense financial strain due to our country's frayed and underfunded public health system, Planned Parenthood health centers across the country are being pushed to the brink.” New Survey Concerning the Understanding of Salvation is Released by Barna Dr. George Barna released his latest research on the worldview of Americans. The survey found most U.S. adults say eternal salvation demands a blend of works and grace. For example, one-third of Americans who call themselves “born-again” believe good people can earn salvation. And nearly half of Americans believe they will earn their way into Heaven by being generally good or doing enough good deeds. Dr. Barna noted, “There remains a shocking degree of misunderstanding among Christians regarding sin, repentance, forgiveness, and salvation.” Ephesians 2:8-9 says, “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” Bible Sales Surge This Year And finally, mainstream media outlets are noting this year's surge in Bible sales. The Associated Press reports Americans have purchased over 18 million Bibles this year.  Brenna Connor with Circana BookScan told Religion News Service, “Sales for Bibles have been steadily growing in the U.S. since 2021 and have set unprecedented annual sales records since 2022. 2024 marked a 20-year high for Bible sales in the U.S., and 2025 is on track to surpass these levels, underscoring the growing interest in religious content among U.S. consumers.” Close And that's The Worldview on this Wednesday, November 26th, in the year of our Lord 2025. Follow us on X or subscribe for free by Spotify, Amazon Music, or by iTunes or email to our unique Christian newscast at www.TheWorldview.com.  Plus, you can get the Generations app through Google Play or The App Store. Filling in for Adam McManus I'm Ean Leppin (Contact@eanvoiceit.com). Seize the day for Jesus Christ.

Doron Keidar discusses the hostage situation involving Israel and Hamas. He shares insights into efforts made for their recovery, conditions faced by hostages, and the psychological impact of their release. He also addresses the brutal realities of prisoner exchanges, control exerted by Hamas in Gaza, and the disappointment felt regarding peace deals. The conversation highlights the complexities of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the challenges faced in achieving lasting peace.- https://doronkeidar.com*Recorded mid October 2025YouTube Version: www.youtube.com/RadicalLifestyle- Radical Lifestyle Instagram Click Here- X: Click Here- TikTok: Click Here- Telegram channel and discussion: Click HereYou can also follow Andrew and Daphne on their social media platforms:Andrew Kirk: Facebook | InstagramDaphne Kirk: Facebook | InstagramTo support the channel: Click Here- UK only Donations here: Click Here*This Podcast is for informational purposes only. The opinions expressed by Podcast Guests are based upon information they consider reliable, may be short-term in nature, and are subject to change. The views and opinions expressed in this Podcast may not be those of the Host or Generation 2 generation.

Speaker: Susie Becher, Communications Director, Policy Working Group (PWG)*Hosted by the Britain Palestine ProjectIn this wide-ranging and deeply insightful conversation, Susie Becher — Communications Director of the Policy Working Group (PWG), founding member of All Its Citizens, managing editor of the Palestine-Israel Journal, longtime activist, and former US Embassy analyst — explores the state of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the failures of diplomacy, and the urgent need for international engagement to secure a just two-state solution.Susie reflects on her 50 years in Israel, her work across civil society and political organisations, and the motivations guiding the PWG's advocacy. She gives a candid, nuanced analysis of Israeli politics, the post-October 7th reality, and the dangers posed by current geopolitical dynamics — including the US administration's shifting policies and the rise of anti-democratic tendencies within Israel.A central highlight of the webinar is Susie's detailed account of the PWG's recent advocacy trip to the UK, where they met with parliamentarians, Foreign Office officials, think tanks, civil society actors, and Middle East analysts to discuss recognition of Palestine, protecting international law, and countering the growing marginalisation of the two-state solution.

"All That's Left Of You" is a drama film produced, written, and directed by Cherien Dabis, who also stars alongside Saleh Bakri, Mohammad Bakri, Adam Bakri, Maria Zreik, Muhammad Abed Elrahman, Sanad Alkabareti, and Salah El Din. It follows a Palestinian family across three generations during the history of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. The film had its world premiere at the 2025 Sundance Film Festival and later screened at the Telluride Film Festival, receiving positive reviews for its storytelling and performances. It has been selected as the Jordanian entry for the Best International Feature Film at the 98th Academy Awards. Filmmaker and star Dabis was kind enough to spend some time speaking with us about her work and experience making the film, which you can listen to below. Please be sure to check out the film, which is set to open January 9th in New York, Los Angeles, and San Francisco, followed by a Nationwide rollout from Watermelon Pictures and Visibility Films. Thank you, and enjoy! Check out more on NextBestPicture.com Please subscribe on... Apple Podcasts - https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/negs-best-film-podcast/id1087678387?mt=2 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/7IMIzpYehTqeUa1d9EC4jT YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWA7KiotcWmHiYYy6wJqwOw And be sure to help support us on Patreon for as little as $1 a month at https://www.patreon.com/NextBestPicture and listen to this podcast ad-free Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Subscribe now to skip ads, get bonus content, and enjoy access to the entire catalog of 500 episodes. Keep the narrative flow going! Thirty Novembers ago, Israel experienced one of the worst days in its short history. Yigal Amir, a Jewish religious fanatic opposed to the Oslo negotiations with the Palestinians, assassinated Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin as he left a peace rally in Tel Aviv. The consequences are still felt today, as the peace process is dormant and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is as severe as at any point since 1948. In this episode, Dan Ephron, the executive editor of Foreign Policy, delves into this dark chapter in Israeli history and why it matters now. In 1995, Ephron was a journalist covering the rally where Rabin was shot to death.  Recommended reading: Killing a King: The Assassination of Yitzhak Rabin and the Remaking of Israel by Dan Ephron

Haaretz held its first-ever conference in Berlin, “Fault Lines and Futures: Israel, Gaza and Germany in Wartime and After," to explore the dynamic between Israelis, Palestinians and Germans at this charged moment; this special edition of the Haaretz Podcast features highlights of those conversations. Among the conference speakers was Hadash MK Ayman Odeh, who called on German politicians to follow other European leaders in recognizing a Palestinian state and acknowledge that “there are two peoples in our shared homeland, both with the right to self-determination.” John Philipp Albrecht, president of the Heinrich Boell Foundation – a co-sponsor of the Haaretz conference – took the stage to denounce the attempts of the Netanyahu government's “attacks and intimidation” against European NGOs that promote democracy and Israeli-Palestinian coexistence, noting that “alienating friends and partners of Israel is a strange strategy to strengthen Israel's security.” Also speaking was Prof. Meron Mendel, director of the Anne Frank Center in Frankfurt, who warned against the way in which German and other European far-right anti-immigration parties misleadingly present themselves as defenders of Israel and opponents of antisemitism, as they enjoy the embrace of Israel’s current right-wing coalition. These extremist politicians do not “love Jews,” said Mendel. “They hate Jews, but they hate Muslims more.” So they say, “we are for Israel” to “justify discriminating against Muslims for a ‘good cause’ – the cause of fighting antisemitism.” This episode also features Berliner festival director Matthias Pees and Dr. Ofer Waldman, who heads the Heinrich Boell Foundation’s Tel Aviv office. Watch a recording of the full conference here. Read more: Haaretz Conference in Berlin: What Lies Ahead for Israel and Germany After the Gaza War Germany's Antisemitism Czar Braces for Backlash Over Move to Rein in pro-Palestinian Protests Angela Merkel's Visit to My Gaza-border Kibbutz: A Lesson in Leadership That Israel Lacks Two Israeli DJs in Berlin Renounced Their Israeliness. It Didn't Stop the Boycott Calls The Far-right German Party AfD Says It Has Nothing Against Jews. This Book Proves OtherwiseSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mark Levin engages in a compelling dialogue with Yael Eckstein, the president and CEO of the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. Their conversation delves into the pressing issues facing Israel and the Jewish community, particularly the alarming rise of antisemitism on college campuses across America.Yael opens the discussion by highlighting the hope that is beginning to emerge in the Holy Land, as Christian tourists return for pilgrimages after a challenging period marked by the pandemic and conflict. However, the conversation quickly shifts to a more somber topic: the ideological war being waged in educational institutions. Levin and Eckstein express their concern about the indoctrination of students with Marxist and Islamist ideologies, which they argue are undermining the values of freedom and democracy that America stands for.Eckstein emphasizes the importance of education, not just in terms of academic knowledge but in understanding history and scripture. She points out that many college students today lack a fundamental understanding of events like 9/11, which is critical for contextualizing current geopolitical issues. The duo stresses that the confusion surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is rooted in a lack of historical knowledge and a skewed narrative that often portrays Israel as the oppressor. This episode is a powerful reminder of the challenges we face in preserving our values and standing up for truth. It is a call to action for all who care about freedom, justice, and the future of our society. Be sure to listen to the full episode to gain deeper insights into these pressing issues and learn how you can make a difference. The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews (IFCJ) is a non-profit organization that aims to promote understanding and cooperation between Christians and Jews, and to support Israel and the Jewish people.   To learn more, go to: https://www.ifcj.org/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of Off Limits: Conversations, Dr. Michael Milobsky, a pediatrician with 25 years of experience, discusses the rise of anti-Semitism on social media, what it means to be proudly Jewish in today's America, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Then, he talks with Ian about the challenges facing new parents, the stress caused by influencers, and how to filter out the noise and focus on what matters. At the end of the episode, Ian and Dr. Milobsky also touch on the subject of vaccines. Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/OaC_B0pQ6dkSupport the show by subscribing to Ian's Substack:✍️ https://www.ighaworth.com/subscribeFollow Ian on:

Arrests and anti-Israel chanting have marred a Europa League football clash in the British city of Birmingham featuring Israeli team Maccabi Tel Aviv and Aston Villa - the favourite team of William, the Prince of Wales.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Evangelicals to the rescue. That may seem an oxymoron in the case of Gaza and Palestine. Yet, the ground is shifting under a core, traditionally pro-Israel pillar of US President Donald Trump's support base. The shift is occurring against the backdrop of legitimate concern that mounting criticism of Israel in the Make America Great Again (MAGA) crowd is, at times, laced with anti-Semitism and the rise of New York mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani, a proponent of a one-state instead of a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Mr. Mamdani's candidacy and electoral victory have provoked a wave of Islamophobia, rather than the frank and healthy debate needed amid growing doubts whether a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict remains feasible. Ironically, mounting Evangelical empathy with the plight of the Palestinians constitutes, among Western Evangelicals, a break with their politicised anti-Semitic End Times theology that long formed the basis for the Christians' uncritical alliance with Israel.

In this episode of Out of Zion, ICEJ USA President Dr. Susan Michael reveals why your prayers for Israel are more vital than ever. She discusses the spiritual battle behind the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict, exposing how jihadist ideology and false accusations have fueled hatred and violence against the people of Israel, which led to the horrific events of October 7, 2023. Yet amid the darkness, Dr. Michael points to God’s promise of ultimate peace and urges believers to stand with Israel in prayer. Get Your Free Resource: https://icejusa.org/shownotes Learn more about the Feast of Tabernacles at: https://icejusa.org/feast-tour

SummaryThis conversation delves into the complexities of Zionism, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and the importance of understanding different perspectives. Clayton Cuteri engages with Zionist Inon Dan Kehati to explore the historical context, spiritual beliefs, and the quest for common ground amidst deep-seated divisions. The discussion highlights the role of ignorance, the impact of war, and the need for a unified narrative that respects the stories of all people involved.Clayton's Social MediaLinkTree | TikTok | Instagram | Twitter (X) | YouTube | RumbleTimecodes00:00 - Intro00:34 - Understanding Zionism and Common Ground03:58 - Ignorance and the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict06:41 - The Role of War in Society10:39 - Introducing Inon Dan Kehati11:10 - Defining Zionism and Its Implications16:19 - The Concept of Chosen People20:04 - Unique Missions and Spiritual Responsibilities26:20 - Historical Context of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict27:48 - The Role of Banking and Power Dynamics36:59 - Self-Determination and Human Rights43:35 - Justice and Equality in Israel47:39 - Creating a Unified Narrative55:28 - The Path Forward and Future ConversationsIntro/Outro Music Producer: Don KinIG: https://www.instagram.com/donkinmusic/Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/44QKqKsd81oJEBKffwdFfPSuper grateful for this guy ^NEWSLETTER - SIGN UP HEREBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/traveling-to-consciousness-with-clayton-cuteri--6765271/support.

With a cease-fire in place in Gaza after two years of war, Donald Trump has proclaimed the arrival of peace in the Middle East. At the moment, however, it's not even clear if the cease-fire itself will hold, let alone whether there's a viable path to a long-term solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Few are more familiar with the elusiveness of peace in that conflict than Robert Malley. He has served as a senior Middle East official in American administrations going back to the 1990s. He has sat across from Israeli and Palestinian leaders at moments of great optimism and, more often, greater disappointment. And in a recent piece for Foreign Affairs, drawing on a new book co-authored with Hussein Agha, Malley argues that the cause of that disappointment is Washington's dogged insistence on a two-state solution that neither Israelis nor Palestinians really want. Years of folly, Malley and Agha argue, have seen the United States claim “success even as its efforts yielded serial disaster.”  Malley offers a harsh indictment of decades of U.S. Middle East policy—a policy that, in his assessment, has done more to destabilize and inflame the region than contribute to a lasting peace. Editor Dan Kurtz-Phelan spoke with him about America's record in the Middle East, the devastation of the war in Gaza, and what could perhaps rise from the wreckage. You can find sources, transcripts, and more episodes of The Foreign Affairs Interview at https://www.foreignaffairs.com/podcasts/foreign-affairs-interview. 

Throwback Thursday: ''In Jerusalem'' author Lis Harris goes beyond the political and religious implications of Israeli-Palestinian relations to examine the impact generations of conflict have had on the lives of individuals and families on both sides in the region (at 14:08) --- Are you confused yet? For recipients of both Medicare and Medicaid, there is yet another option to consider during the annual open enrollment period... What to know about Dual Special Needs Healthcare Plans (at 25:12) --- Around Town: 50 North is hosting their annual Craft Show this weekend... A showcase for the creative work of their members to the entire community, and the chance to get an early start on your Christmas shopping! (at 44:14)

The terror and violence in the Israeli / Palestinian conflict is reaching a fever pitch with Hamas and the fear of World War III looming over the world. But who is right? What is happening and why? And what does the Church and the Bible say about it regarding the end times? Join Fr. Chris Alar as he summarizes this and gives you the most important information to understand and make sense of it.

Michael was born in the US into a Coptic Orthodox family, but he'd drifted in and out of Agnosticism since he was a teenager. Michael converted to Islam because he hated Jews so much. For nearly 20 years, he sympathized and advocated for the Palestinians until he felt like he had to choose between his humanity and continuing to support a cause he increasingly saw as morally bankrupt and depraved. That is when he started creating content that focuses on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. After spending nearly 20 years supporting a cause that would have gladly murdered every Israeli, Michael believes he owes it to the Jewish community to tell his story and share his knowledge, to fight the propaganda machine and hopefully pull people out of the "free Palestine" death cult. Leaning heavily into books and recollections of history for information, Michael tries to raise awareness about the problems with the Palestinian leadership, to uplift and showcase Jewish voices and opinions, and to defend Zionism to a world that has a very poor understanding of what Zionism is.Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/koptickaparah0548/ 

Charlotte Korchak reflects on the Israel-Gaza conflict and the recent hostage crisis, expressing relief at the hostages' return and the profound emotional impact of the events. She underscores education as vital to combating antisemitism and fostering Israeli-Palestinian understanding, critiques the framing of the ceasefire as a peace deal, and examines the roles of media and international actors, ultimately urging dialogue, empathy, and sustained efforts toward a shared future.- https://www.instagram.com/charlottekorchak- https://www.jerusalemedu.org- https://www.instagram.com/jerusalemeduYouTube Version: www.youtube.com/RadicalLifestyle- Radical Lifestyle Instagram Click Here- X: Click Here- TikTok: Click Here- Telegram channel and discussion: Click HereYou can also follow Andrew and Daphne on their social media platforms:Andrew Kirk: Facebook | InstagramDaphne Kirk: Facebook | InstagramTo support the channel: Click Here- UK only Donations here: Click Here

Alex Caprariello, National Correspondent for NewsNation, joins Lisa Dent to discuss the last living Israeli hostages being released. Caprariello details the state of the some of the hostages who have been released, and shares that while the agreement provides a solution to the Israeli Palestinian war, the lack of deceased hostages being released is a […]

On this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different, we sit down with Captain Benaya Cherlow, an Israeli-American army officer, strategist, and veteran of both Gaza and Lebanon. In the aftermath of October 7th, when the world witnessed astounding levels of violence and heartbreak, conversations about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict have often focused on the political, religious, and strategic dimensions. Yet, beneath the headlines are deeply personal stories of loss, identity, and the moral quandaries faced by those on the frontlines. This dialogue traverses the emotional aftermath of tragedy, the complexities of identity in a region at war, and the indelible lessons learned amid chaos, with the hope of peace as a guiding light. You're listening to Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different. We are the real dialogue podcast for people with a different mind. So get your mind in a different place, and hey ho, let's go.   Bearing Witness to Evil and Wrestling with Identity Christopher opens the conversation by acknowledging his own pain in the wake of October 7th, having lost close friends to acts of violence and identifying deeply with the Jewish community through family and lifelong friendships. This sense of shared heartbreak becomes the backdrop for his discussion with Captain Cherlow, a man whose background embodies the intersection of cultures and conflict. Born to a Lebanese-Jewish mother from Beirut and an American father, himself descended from Holocaust survivors and World War II veterans, Captain Cherlow describes his upbringing as a “crisis of identity.” Fluent in Hebrew, Arabic, and English, he straddles the worlds of his ancestors, fighting on behalf of one homeland in the land of the other. The experience of entering Lebanese villages as an IDF officer—aware of his maternal roots and hearing echoes of his family history everywhere—is a stark reminder of how personal the region's turbulence becomes for those with ties on both sides. Captain Cherlow's ability to speak Arabic and understand the culture gave him insights into the threats posed by Hezbollah, but also led to moments of profound irony and unexpected kindness even in the midst of war.   Moral Decisions on the Battlefield and the Human Cost of War The conversation takes a raw turn as Captain Cherlow recounts experiences from the frontlines in Gaza. With the war dragging on, he describes the sheer exhaustion experienced by Israeli soldiers and citizens alike, each hoping for peace but aware of the tenuousness of any truce. It is in recounting a harrowing night, when he was faced with choosing between saving fellow soldiers or responding to a possible hostage situation, that the moral complexity of war is laid bare. Cherlow refuses to divulge the decision he ultimately made, insisting instead that listeners sit with the impossible pressure of those few seconds, a pressure for which neither military training nor life experience truly prepares anyone. The story of using a hospital as a base of operations, only to discover women and children being used as human shields by Hamas combatants, adds another layer to the moral maze soldiers must navigate. Christopher and Captain Cherlow both focus on the humanity amidst chaos; whether that is in giving snacks to Gazan children or improvising medical care for wounded comrades. Through all this, Cherlow reflects on the importance of conveying these complexities to decision-makers in Congress. The reality of urban warfare, he emphasizes, is not the relentless heroics dramatized on television; it is long stretches of hunger, confusion, and impossible choices, punctuated by moments of both tragedy and grace.   On the Precipice of Peace, and the Weight of History A theme running through the episode is the flickering hope for a different future. For what may be the first time, a coalition led by the United States and Israel has assembled nearly all the major Arab and Muslim nations,

In this double interview I talked to Michael Kinnamon, author of A Rooftop in Jerusalem and Philip Graubart author of Here There Is No Why. A Rooftop In Jerusalem: When Daniel Jacobs decides to spend his junior year abroad in Israel, he never dreams he'll fall in love with both Jerusalem's Old City and an Israeli woman, Shoshana. It's the year religion becomes a part of his identity, from the heights of a simple rooftop. A year he encounters the tragic complexity of the Israeli-Palestinian struggle. A year that begins a four-decade-long love affair, as complicated and heartbreaking as the political conflict with which it's intertwined. As Daniel moves through life-through marriage and divorce, career and travel-he returns periodically to Jerusalem, where his heart faithfully remains. A Rooftop in Jerusalem brings the Old City's walls, holy sites, and inhabitants to life, while putting a human face on headlines from the Middle East. Here There Is No Why: Did Chaim Lerner, acclaimed Israeli author and Holocaust survivor, kill himself in 1983, thirty-eight years after surviving Auschwitz? If so, was it traumatic memories finally catching up to him? Or despair over Holocaust denialism? Or ordinary, difficult health issues-an aching hip, a damaged knee? Or simply a deadly episode of depression? Or was it murder? In 2005, Judah Loeb, Lerner's former student and now a struggling American journalist and single father, travels to Jerusalem to investigate Lerner's death. He drags along his fifteen-year-old daughter, Hannah, and they team up with Charlie, Judah's former Hebrew University roommate, now a Jerusalem homicide detective. Their investigation takes them through the darker corners of the Israeli psyche, where they uncover secrets that threaten to destroy Lerner's reputation and alter Jewish history. While probing the mysteries of Israel's past, they encounter personal betrayal, heartbreak, and the fragile possibilities of forgiveness and redemption. Roberto Mazza is currently a visiting scholar at the Buffett Institute for Global Affairs at Northwestern University. He is the host of the Jerusalem Unplugged Podcast and to discuss and propose a book for interview can be reached at robbymazza@gmail.com. Blusky and IG: @robbyref Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

In this double interview I talked to Michael Kinnamon, author of A Rooftop in Jerusalem and Philip Graubart author of Here There Is No Why. A Rooftop In Jerusalem: When Daniel Jacobs decides to spend his junior year abroad in Israel, he never dreams he'll fall in love with both Jerusalem's Old City and an Israeli woman, Shoshana. It's the year religion becomes a part of his identity, from the heights of a simple rooftop. A year he encounters the tragic complexity of the Israeli-Palestinian struggle. A year that begins a four-decade-long love affair, as complicated and heartbreaking as the political conflict with which it's intertwined. As Daniel moves through life-through marriage and divorce, career and travel-he returns periodically to Jerusalem, where his heart faithfully remains. A Rooftop in Jerusalem brings the Old City's walls, holy sites, and inhabitants to life, while putting a human face on headlines from the Middle East. Here There Is No Why: Did Chaim Lerner, acclaimed Israeli author and Holocaust survivor, kill himself in 1983, thirty-eight years after surviving Auschwitz? If so, was it traumatic memories finally catching up to him? Or despair over Holocaust denialism? Or ordinary, difficult health issues-an aching hip, a damaged knee? Or simply a deadly episode of depression? Or was it murder? In 2005, Judah Loeb, Lerner's former student and now a struggling American journalist and single father, travels to Jerusalem to investigate Lerner's death. He drags along his fifteen-year-old daughter, Hannah, and they team up with Charlie, Judah's former Hebrew University roommate, now a Jerusalem homicide detective. Their investigation takes them through the darker corners of the Israeli psyche, where they uncover secrets that threaten to destroy Lerner's reputation and alter Jewish history. While probing the mysteries of Israel's past, they encounter personal betrayal, heartbreak, and the fragile possibilities of forgiveness and redemption. Roberto Mazza is currently a visiting scholar at the Buffett Institute for Global Affairs at Northwestern University. He is the host of the Jerusalem Unplugged Podcast and to discuss and propose a book for interview can be reached at robbymazza@gmail.com. Blusky and IG: @robbyref Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/middle-eastern-studies

Two years after October 7th,  a rare moment of hope and jubilation for war-ravaged Gaza and for Israelis awaiting the return of their loved ones, after Donald Trump announced the Israel-Hamas deal had been reached. Christiane speaks with three Middle East mediators, Oliver Mcternan of Forward Thinking, Israel's Yossi Beilin who served as the country's justice minister, and Hussein Agha who has a long history in Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, about the intricacies of the deal and whether it will lead to a lasting peace. Then, Christiane speaks with Israeli journalist Nir Hasson about why he thinks Israel's brutal response to the October 7th massacre "destroyed the foundations on which the State of Israel was founded." Plus, CNN's Gustavo Valdes reports on the administration's deportation of Emmy-award winning journalist, Mario Guevara, who was arrested by ICE in June after live-streaming coverage of a "No Kings" protest. Also on the show, former Israeli hostage Nili Margalit recounts her horrendous experience in the tunnels of Gaza during Hamas captivity. Christiane also speaks with Al Jazeera's Gaza bureau chief, Wael al-Dahdouh who became the face of what journalists like himself have had to endure covering the carnage in Gaza. And as the Nobel Peace Prize is awarded this week, from her archives, Christiane revisits the story of Shirin Ebadi, the first Muslim woman and Iranian to win, and the extraordinary courage behind her fight for human rights. Air date: October 11th, 2025 Guests: Oliver Mcternan, Yossi Beilin, Hussein Agha,  Nir Hasson Wael al-Dahdouh Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Keep the narrative flow going! Subscribe now for ad-free listening and to get bonus content. The story of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is violent, full of sorrow, and littered with missed opportunities for lasting peace. The origins of the peace process might be traced to the late 1960s, when an American spy made his first clandestine contacts with the PLO. In this episode, Pulitzer Prize-winning historian and author Kai Bird says Robert Ames had a vision for Palestinian self-determination. Ronald Reagan saw an opportunity to realize it, even as invasion, war, and terrorism swallowed Lebanon in 1982-83. Lebanon was the country where Bob Ames would lose his life, the country he tried to save. Recommended reading: The Good Spy: The Life and Death of Robert Ames by Kai Bird

Special Counsel Jack Smith's investigation into the January 6th Capitol riot allegedly had a focus on the communications of eight Republican senators, including Senator Bill Hagerty, who has revealed how the FBI accessed their private messages. United States Senator Bill Hagerty (R-TN) joins the Rundown to discuss the implications of this surveillance and his collaboration with local and federal officials following the National Guard deployment in Memphis, Tennessee. As the world reflects on the two year anniversary of Hamas' Oct. 7 attack, the subsequent war that was triggered in Gaza has dominated the political conversation all over the globe. National Review Institute fellow & author of the book On Democracies and Death Cults: Israel and the Future of Civilization, Douglas Murray joins the Rundown to discuss the shift in public opinion on Israel since the start of the war, and the challenges around the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Plus, commentary from the president of Exit Stage Left Advisors, Ted Jenkin Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Elliott Abrams, senior fellow for Middle East studies and the Council, and Ed Husain, senior fellow at the Council, sit down with James M. Lindsay to discuss the state of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict on the second anniversary of the October 7 attacks and whether President Donald Trump's twenty-point peace plan will produce a lasting ceasefire.   Mentioned on the Episode:   Elliott Abrams, "The Teaching of Hate in Jordan," CFR.org   Naftali Bendavid, Scott Clement, and Emily Guskin, "Many American Jews Sharply Critical of Israel on Gaza, Post Poll Finds," Washington Post   For an episode transcript and show notes, visit The President's Inbox at: https://www.cfr.org/podcasts/tpi/two-years-since-october-7-elliott-abrams-ed-husain

In this Special Episode of Hold Your Fire!, two years of war in Gaza after Hamas's 7 October attacks, Richard is joined by Crisis Group's former president and former U.S. Special Envoy to Iran and official in several previous U.S. administrations, Rob Malley. They discuss Trump's peace plan for Gaza, Hamas' reaction to the proposal and where things might be headed next. They discuss Rob's new book, co-authored with Hussein Agha, “Tomorrow Is Yesterday: Life, Death and the Pursuit of Peace in Israel-Palestine”, which traces the collapse of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process and the two-state solution, potential missed opportunities, and whether Washington or others could ever have clinched a peace agreement. They discuss the unravelling of Iran's “axis of resistance” and what, if anything, could deter Israel from continuing to pursue its objectives by force. Finally, Richard reflects with Rob on what it means to be both an insider and an outsider in policymaking.Click here to listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. For more, check out Rob's new book, co-authored with Hussein Agha, “Tomorrow Is Yesterday: Life, Death, and the Pursuit of Peace in Israel/Palestine”, our last episode “What to Make of Trump's Gaza Plan?” and our Israel/Palestine page. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today, on Karl and Crew, we reflected and honored the anniversary of the October 7th Massacre in Israel by Hamas. We then had Dr. Jim Coakley join us to share about an upcoming trip to Turkey and Greece. Dr. Coakley will lead a tour that will journey through the New Testament from March 4th to 17th, 2026. Early Bird prices are available now if booked by November 1, 2025. Dr. Coakley is a Professor of Bible at the Moody Bible Institute (MBI). He is also an elder with 180 Chicago and a member of the Evangelical Theological Society. Then we had Dr. Michael Rydelnik join us to talk about the rise of anti-semitism following the October 7th attack in 2023. Dr. Rydelnik is a Professor Emeritus of Jewish and Biblical Studies and an adjunct professor in the undergraduate program at MBI. He is also the host and Bible teacher of “Open Line,” which airs every Saturday from 9:00 to 11:00 a.m. CT on Moody Broadcasting and over 225 other stations. We then had Justin Kron join us to share his testimony and explain his motivation for creating a film about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Justin is the founding director of the Kesher Project, a nonprofit organization focused on connecting Christians to the Jewish roots of their faith with the Jewish community. He is also an adjunct professor for the Jewish Studies Department at MBI. He also partnered with Philos Project and produced an award-winning documentary, HOPE IN THE HOLY LAND: Delving Beneath the Surface of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, which will now become a docuseries called HOPE IN THE HOLY LAND: The Series. They have recently released a new feature documentary called “October 7: Bearing Witness to the Massacre.” You can hear the highlights of today's program on the Karl and Crew Showcast. If you're looking to listen to a particular segment from the show, look at the following time stamps: Dr. Jim Coakley Interview [22:06] Dr. Micahel Rydelnik Interview [36:27 ] Justin Kron Interview [52:58 ] Karl and Crew airs live weekday mornings from 5-9 a.m. Central Time. Click this link for ways to listen in your area! https://www.moodyradio.org/ways-to-listen/Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this installment of our election year series, a look into what the candidates -- especially former Governor Andrew Cuomo and Assemblymember Zohran Mamdani -- might do as mayor to influence the Israeli-Palestinian conflict one way or another. Jim Walden, a former federal prosecutor who ran as an independent in the NYC mayor's race, first explains his support for Cuomo, who signed an executive order as governor barring the state from doing business with any organization that participated in the BDS movement. Then, Jeremy Cohan, sociologist and NYC-DSA leader and spokesperson, breaks down Mamdani's Not On Our Dime Act, intended to punish organizations that aid Israeli West Bank settlers.

Alan Dershowitz, Lawyer & Former Law Professor, joins the program a day before the two-year commemoration of the October 7th attacks on Israel by Hamas, to talk about the media biases against Israel, and the difficulties in spreading accurate information about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The conversation touches on the impact of hostage situations and the misinformation prevalent on American college campuses. Dershowitz also shares personal reflections on his late son and comments on sociopolitical matters, including the judicial handling of P Diddy's sentencing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Crossing Faiths, John Pinna speaks with Michael Kinnamon, a novelist, professor of theology, and expert in interfaith relations, about his novel "A Rooftop in Jerusalem" and the broader themes of his life's work. Kinnamon discusses his three careers—as a professor, an ecumenical leader with the National Council of Churches, and now a novelist—and how they are all connected by the goal of fostering empathy and cross-cultural understanding. The conversation delves into the power of fiction to humanize complex political and religious conflicts by putting a face on headlines and allowing readers to inhabit different perspectives. They explore the central plot of Kinnamon's novel, a 40-year love story between an American Christian and an Israeli Jewish woman, which serves as a lens to examine the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the tension between unity and justice, and the role of hospitality in bridging divides. Throughout the discussion, Kinnamon emphasizes how personal relationships and shared experiences, often over meals, can break down stereotypes and create meaningful dialogue in a world defined by walls and conflict. Michael Kinnamon (https://michaelkinnamon.com/) is the author of two previously published novels: Summer of Love and Evil (2021) and The Nominee (2024). Prior to his career as a novelist, he was a widely respected professor of theology, author of numerous books on ecumenical and interfaith relations, and general secretary of the National Council of Churches in the US. [A Rooftop in Jerusalem](https://www.amazon.com/Rooftop-Jerusalem-Michael-Kinnamon/dp/B0DZQDMQ15/) draws on his extensive experience in the Middle East. Dr. Kinnamon and his wife, Mardine Davis, an art consultant, live in San Diego.

Note that this conversation took place before Hamas addressed some conditions of President Donald Trump's proposed peace plan and said it agreed to release all remaining hostages. This was the most requested conversation I've ever had, and one of the longest and most challenging. Dave Smith—comedian, podcaster, and libertarian foreign policy critic—joined me for three and a half hours to debate the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and American foreign policy more broadly. We disagree on a lot. Smith recently published a video responding to my analysis of the conflict, and this conversation gave us the chance to unpack those disagreements directly—without dodging the hard questions or talking past each other. We covered Ron Paul's influence on Smith's worldview, whether 9/11 was driven by foreign policy grievances or jihadist ideology, the Iraq War, whether Israel wants peace, what Palestinians actually want, and what American foreign policy in Iran should be. This is what substantive disagreement looks like: long, difficult, and hopefully enlightening. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Subscribe now for the full episode! Vote for us in the 2025 Signal Awards! Danny and Derek update everyone on what we know about the Gaza ceasefire that Hamas just accepted and where things go from here. Then, for subscribers, they speak with Mohammad Alsaafin, journalist at AJ+, and Dalia Hatuqa, a journalist specializing in Israeli/Palestinian affairs and regional Middle East issues, to unpack the finer details. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For decades, the U.S. has tried to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Those efforts, despite the deep passion among the mediators and the endless work with both sides, ultimately failed. Robert Malley participated in peace talks at Camp David 25 years ago and co-authored a book about the pursuit of peace. He sat down with Nick Schifrin to discuss "Tomorrow is Yesterday." PBS News is supported by - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/about/funders. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy

Former Deputy National Security Advisor Victoria Coates joins Sid to talk about the current crisis in Gaza. She evaluates a proposed peace deal from Trump that Hamas is likely to reject, explaining the obstacles and political motivations behind the ongoing conflict. Coates also highlights the significant shift in regional support for the deal, noting that many Muslim-majority countries are now publicly backing the plan. The discussion touches on broader U.S. foreign policy achievements under Trump, including efforts to institutionalize the U.S.-Israel relationship and potential challenges if a Democrat wins in the 2028 elections. Coates emphasizes the importance of continued U.S. support for Israel and the potential for further regional integration, despite the complexities of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On the sidelines of the UN General Assembly, AJC hosted a conversation with Jason Greenblatt, a key architect of the Abraham Accords, and former U.S. Ambassador to Israel Dan Shapiro. They discussed the challenges threatening regional stability, from unilateral moves on Palestinian statehood to political pressures within Israel, and underscored what's at stake—and what it will take—to expand the Abraham Accords and advance peace. *The views and opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect the views or position of AJC.  Episode lineup: Dan Shapiro (1:00) Jason Greenblatt (18:05) Full transcript: https://www.ajc.org/news/podcast/accords-of-tomorrow-architects-of-peace-episode-5 Resources: AJC.org/ArchitectsofPeace - Tune in weekly for new episodes. AJC.org/AbrahamAccords - The Abraham Accords, Explained AJC.org/CNME - Find more on AJC's Center for a New Middle East Listen – AJC Podcasts: AJC.org/ForgottenExodus AJC.org/PeopleofthePod Follow Architects of Peace on your favorite podcast app, and learn more at AJC.org/ArchitectsofPeace You can reach us at: podcasts@ajc.org If you've appreciated this episode, please be sure to tell your friends, and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Transcript: Manya Brachear Pashman: In September 2020, the world saw what had been years – decades – in the making: landmark peace agreements dubbed the Abraham Accords – normalizing relations between Israel and two Arabian Gulf states, the United Arab Emirates and the Kingdom of Bahrain. Later, in December, they were joined by the Kingdom of Morocco. Five years later, AJC is pulling back the curtain to meet key individuals who built the trust that led to these breakthroughs and turning the spotlight on some of the results. Introducing the Architects of Peace. On the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in September, American Jewish Committee hosted conversations with former Middle East envoy Jason Greenblatt, a key architect of the Abraham Accords, and former U.S. Ambassador to Israel Dan Shapiro:. Both diplomats discussed the dangers threatening peace in the region, including some countries' unilateral calls for Palestinian statehood. They shared what's at stake and what it will take to expand the Abraham Accords and make progress toward peace in the region. We're including those conversations as part of our series.  AJC's Chief Strategy and Communications Officer Belle Yoeli starts us off with Ambassador Shapiro. Belle Yoeli:  Ambassador Shapiro, thank you so much for being with us. We're going to speak primarily about unilateral recognition of Palestinian statehood, but I, of course, want to ask you a couple of questions, because you have so much to share with us before we dive in.  First and foremost, as we've said, It's been almost two years, and at AJC, we're all about optimism and playing the long game, as you know, but it does feel like the challenges for the Jewish community and the state of Israel continue to build. And of course, the war looms very large. What is your analysis of the geopolitical horizon for the war in Gaza. Dan Shapiro:  First, thanks for having me. Thank you to American Jewish Committee and to Ted and everybody for all you do. Thank you, Ruby [Chen], and the families, for the fellowship that we can share with you in this goal. I'll just say it very simply, this war needs to end. The hostages need to come home. Hamas needs to be removed from power. And aid needs to surge into Gaza and move forward with a reconstruction of Gaza for Palestinians who prepare to live in peace with Israel. This is something that is overdue and needs to happen. I think there have been a number of missed opportunities along the way. I don't say this in a partisan way. I think President Trump has missed opportunities at the end of the first ceasefire, when the first ceasefire was allowed to expire after the Iran strike, something I strongly supported and felt was exactly the right thing to do. There was an opening to create a narrative to end the war. I think there have been other missed opportunities. And I don't say in a partisan way, because the administration I served in, the Biden administration, we made mistakes and we missed opportunities. So it can be shared. that responsibility.  But what I do think is that there is a new opportunity right now, and we saw it in President Trump's meeting with Arab leaders. It's going to take very significant, deft, and sustained diplomatic effort. He's got a good team, and they need to do the follow through now to hold the Arabs to their commitments on ensuring Hamas is removed from power, on ensuring that there's a security arrangement in Gaza that does not leave Israel vulnerable to any possibility of a renewal of hostilities against it. And of course, to get the hostages released. That's pressure on the Arabs. And of course, he's got a meeting coming up with Prime Minister Netanyahu, and I do think he's going to need to lean on Prime Minister Netanyahu to overcome the resistance that he has to deal with in his cabinet, from those who want to continue the war or who those who rule out any role of any kind for the Palestinian Authority in something that will follow in the day after in Gaza.  So there is a real opportunity here. Once the war is over, then we have an opportunity to get back on the road that we were on. Two years ago at this UN General Assembly, I was serving as the Biden administration's Senior Advisor on regional integration, the first State Department position to hold that, trying to follow through on the excellent work that Jason Greenblatt and Jared Kushner and, of course, President Trump did in the first term in achieving the Abraham Accords. And we were building out the Negev Forum. And in fact, at that UNGA meeting, we had planned the next ministerial meeting of the Negev Forum. It was to take place October 19 in Marrakesh. Obviously, no one ever heard about that summit. It didn't happen. But getting back on the road to strengthening and expanding the Abraham Accords, to getting Saudi Arabia to the table as a country that will normalize relations with Israel, to expanding regional forums like the Negev Forum. Those are all still within reach, but none of them are possible until the war ends, till the hostages are home, till Hamas is removed from power.  Belle Yoeli:  Absolutely. And we look forward to talking more about the day after, in our next segment, in a segment coming up. Ambassador, you just got back from Israel. Can you tell us about your experience, the mood, what's the climate like in Israel? And any insights from your meetings and time that you think should be top of mind for us? Dan Shapiro:  I think what was top of mind for almost every Israeli I spoke to was the hostages. I spent time in the hostage square in Tel Aviv, spent time with Ruby, spent time with other hostage families, and everywhere you go as everybody who spin their nose, you see the signs, you hear the anxiety. And it's getting deeper because of the time that people are worried is slipping away for, especially for those who are still alive, but for all of those hostages to be returned to their families, so deep, deep anxiety about it, and candidly, some anger, I think we just heard a little bit of it toward a government that they're not sure shares that as the highest priority. There's a lot of exhaustion. People are tired of multiple rounds of reserve duty, hundreds of days. Families stressed by that as well the concern that this could drag on with the new operation well into next year. It's allowed to continue. It's a lot of worry about Israel's increased isolation, and of course, that's part of the subject. We'll discuss how countries who have been friends of Israel, whether in the region or in Europe or elsewhere, are responding in more and more negative ways, and Israel, and all Israelis, even in their personal lives, are feeling that pinch. But there's also some, I guess, expectant hope that President Trump, who is popular in Israel, of course, will use his influence and his regional standing, which is quite significant, to put these pieces together. Maybe we're seeing that happening this week. And of course, there's some expectant hope, or at least expectant mood, about an election next year, which will bring about some kind of political change in Israel. No one knows exactly what that will look like, but people are getting ready for that. So Israelis are relentlessly forward, looking even in the depths of some degree of anxiety and despair, and so I was able to feel those glimmers as well. Belle Yoeli:  And relentlessly resilient, absolutely resilient. And we know that inspires us. Moving back to the piece on diplomatic isolation and the main piece of our conversation, obviously, at AJC, we've been intensely focused on many of the aspects that are concerning us, in terms of unfair treatment of countries towards Israel, but unilateral recognition of Palestinian state is probably the most concerning issue that we've been dealing with this week, and obviously has gotten a lot of attention in the media. So from your perspective, what is this really all about? Obviously, this, this has been on the table for a while. It's not the first time that countries have threatened to do this, but I think it is the first time we're time we're seeing France and other major countries now pushing this forward in this moment. Is this all about political pressure on Israel? Dan Shapiro:  Well, first, I'll say that I think it's a mistake. I think it's an ill advised set of initiatives by France, by Canada, Australia, UK and others. It will change almost it will change nothing on the ground. And so to that sense, it's a purely rhetorical step that changes nothing, and probably does little, if anything, to advance toward the stated goal of some sort of resolution of the Israeli Palestinian conflict. And in many ways, it may actually set it back in part because of the way it appears to and certainly many Israelis understand it too. And I'm sorry to say, many Arabs understand it to reward Hamas. Hamas is celebrating it as an achievement of October 7, and that October 7 will find its place in the pantheon of the Palestinian Liberation story that should never be allowed to happen. So doing it this way, doing it without conditioning it on the release of hostages, on the disarming and removal of Hamas from Gaza, is a mistake. And of course, it tells Israelis that their very legitimate concerns about obviously the hostages, but also that some future Palestinian state, wherever and whatever form it might take, could become a threat to them from other parts, from parts of the West Bank, as it was from Gaza on October 7. And you cannot get to that goal unless you're willing to engage the Israeli public on those concerns, very legitimate concerns, and address them in a very forthright way.  So I think it's a mistake. I'm sure, to some degree, others have made this observation. It is motivated by some of the domestic political pressures that these leaders feel from their different constituencies, maybe their left, left wing constituencies, some right wing constituencies, and some immigrant constituencies. And so maybe they're responding to that. And I think that's, you know, leaders deal with those types of things. I think sometimes they make bad decisions in dealing with those types of pressures. I think that's the case here, but I it's also the case. I think it's just fair to say that in the absence of any Israeli Government articulated viable day after, plan for Gaza, something we were urged Israel to work with us on all the time. I was serving in the Biden administration, and I think the Trump administration has as well, but it's remained blurry. What does what is that vision of the day after? Not only when does it start, but what does it look like afterwards? And is it something that Arab States and European states can buy into and get behind and and put their influence to work to get Hamas out and to do a rebuild that meets the needs of both Israelis and Palestinians. There hasn't been that. And so that could have been a way of satisfying some of those domestic pressures, but it wasn't really available. And so I think some of the leaders turn to this ill advised move instead. Belle Yoeli:  So perhaps catering to domestic political concerns and wanting to take some sort of moral high ground on keeping peace alive, but beyond that, no real, practical or helpful outcomes, aside from setting back the cause of peace? Dan Shapiro:  I think it has limited practical effects. Fact, I think it does tell Israelis that much of the world has not internalized their legitimate concerns, and that they will be, you know, cautious at best for this. Everybody knows that there are many Israelis who have been long standing supporters of some kind of two state resolution to the Israeli Palestinian conflict. And post October 7, they've, they don't still hold that position, or at least they say, if it can happen, it's going to take a long time, it's going to look very different. And I think that actually is some a real practical takeaway, that if we are going to talk about some future establishment of a Palestinian state and some two state arrangement, certainly separation between Israelis and Palestinians, so they don't try to live intermixed in a way that they govern each other. I think that is that is desirable, but it's not necessarily going to look like two state outcomes that were envisioned in the Oslo period, in the 90s and the 2000s it's going to look different. It's going to take longer. And so that is something that I think we have to make sure is understood as people raise this initiative, that their goal is not the goal of 1993 it's going to have to look different, and it's going to have to take longer. Belle Yoeli:  So as more and more countries have sort of joined this, this move that we find to be unhelpful, obviously, a concern that we all have who are engaged in this work is that we've heard response, perhaps, from the Israelis, that there could be potential annexation of the West Bank, and that leads to this sort of very, very, even more concerning scenario that all of the work that you were discussing before, around the Abraham Accords, could freeze, or, perhaps even worse, collapse. What's your analysis on that scenario? How concerned should we be based on everything that you know now and if not that scenario? What else should we be thinking about? Dan Shapiro:  We should be concerned. I was actually in Israel, when the UAE issued their announcement about four weeks ago that annexation in the West Wing could be a red line, and I talked to a very senior UAE official and tried to understand what that means, and they aren't, weren't prepared to or say precisely what it means. It doesn't necessarily mean they're going to break off relations or end the Abraham Accords, but that they would have to respond, and there's a limited range of options for how one could respond, with moving ambassadors or limiting flights or reducing certain kinds of trade or other visits. Nothing good, nothing that would help propel forward the Abraham accords and that particular critical bilateral relationship in a way that we wanted to so I think there's risk. I think if the UAE would take that step, others would probably take similar steps. Egypt and Jordan have suggested there would be steps. So I think there's real risk there, and I think it's something that we should be concerned about, and we should counsel our Israeli friends not to go that route. There are other ways that they may respond. In fact, I think we've already seen the Trump administration, maybe as a proxy, make some kind of moves that try to balance the scales of these unilateral recognitions. But that particular one, with all of the weight that it carries about what how it limits options for future endpoints, I think would be very, very damaging. And I don't think I'm the only one. Just in the last hour and a half or so, President Trump, sitting in the Oval Office, said very publicly that he, I think you said, would not allow Netanyahu to do the Analyze annexation of the West Bank. I think previously, it was said by various people in the administration that it's really an Israeli decision, and that the United States is not going to tell them what to do. And that's perfectly fine as a public position, and maybe privately, you can say very clearly what you think is the right course, he's now said it very publicly. We'll see if he holds to that position. But he said it, and I think given the conversations he was having with Arab leaders earlier this week, given the meeting, he will have his fourth meeting. So it's obviously a very rich relationship with Prime Minister Netanyahu on Monday, I think it's clear what he believes is necessary to get to the end of this war and not leave us in a worse position for trying to get back on the road to his goals. His goals of expanding the Abraham accords his great achievement from the first term, getting Saudi Arabia to normalize relations, of course, getting hostages released and getting Arabs involved in the reconstruction of Gaza in a way that Gaza can never become the threat it was again on October 7, those are his goals. They'll be well served by the end of the war that I described earlier, and by avoiding this cycle that you're referencing. Belle Yoeli:  Putting aside the issue of unilateral recognition, I think we've seen in our work with our Israeli counterparts, sort of differences in the political establish. Around how important it is in thinking about the day after and seeing movement on the Palestinian issue. And we've seen from some that they perhaps make it out that it's not as important that the Palestinian having movement towards a political path. It's not necessarily a have to be front and center, while others seem to prioritize it. And I think in our work with Arab countries, it's very clear that there does have to be some tangible movement towards the political aspirations for the Palestinian for there to really be any future progress beyond the Abraham accords. What's your take? Dan Shapiro:  My take is that the Arab states have often had a kind of schizophrenic view about the Palestinian issue. It's not always been, maybe rarely been their highest priority. They've certainly had a lot of disagreements with and maybe negative assessments of Palestinian leaders, of course, Hamas, but even Palestinian Authority leaders. And so, you know, it's possible to ask the question, or it has been over time, you know, how high do they prioritize? It? Certainly those countries that stepped forward to join the Abraham accords said they were not going to let that issue prevent them from advancing their own interests by establishing these productive bilateral relations with Israel, having said that there's no question that Arab publics have been deeply, deeply affected by the war in Gaza, by the coverage they see they unfortunately, know very little about what happened on October 7, and they know a lot about Israeli strikes in Gaza, civilian casualties, humanitarian aid challenges, and so that affects public moods. Even in non democratic countries, leaders are attentive to the views of their publics, and so I think this is important to them. And every conversation that I took part in, and I know my colleagues in the Biden administration with Arab states about those day after arrangements that we wanted them to participate in, Arab security forces, trainers of Palestinian civil servants, reconstruction funding and so forth. They made very clear there were two things they were looking for. They were looking for a role for the Palestinian Authority, certainly with room to negotiate exactly what that role would be, but some foothold for the Palestinian Authority and improving and reforming Palestinian Authority, but to have them be connected to that day after arrangement in Gaza and a declared goal of some kind of Palestinian state in the future.  I think there was a lot of room in my experience, and I think it's probably still the case for flexibility on the timing, on the dimensions, on some of the characteristics of that outcome. And I think a lot of realism among some of these Arab leaders that we're not talking about tomorrow, and we're not talking about something that might have been imagined 20 or 30 years ago, but they still hold very clearly to those two positions as essentially conditions for their involvement in getting to getting this in. So I think we have to take it seriously. It sounds like President Trump heard that in his meeting with the Arab leaders on Tuesday. It sounds like he's taking it very seriously. Belle Yoeli:  I could ask many more questions, but I would get in trouble, and you've given us a lot to think about in a very short amount of time. Ambassador Shapiro, thank you so much for being with us. Dan Shapiro:  Thank you. Thank you everybody.  Manya Brachear Pashman: As you heard, Ambassador Shapiro served under President Obama. Now AJC's Chief Policy and Political Affairs Officer Jason Isaacson speaks with Jason Greenblatt, who served under President Trump. But don't expect a counterpoint. Despite their political differences, these two men see eye to eye on quite a bit. Jason Isaacson: Jason first, thank you for the Abraham Accords. The work that you did changed the history of the Middle East. We are so full of admiration for the work of you and your team. Jared Kushner. Of course, President Trump, in changing the realities for Israel's relationship across the region and opening the door to the full integration of Israel across the region.  It's an unfinished work, but the work that you pioneered with the President, with Jared, with the whole team, has changed the perspective that Israel can now enjoy as it looks beyond the immediate borders, Jordan and Egypt, which has had relations with a quarter a century or more, to full integration in the region. And it's thanks to you that we actually are at this point today, even with all the challenges. So first, let me just begin this conversation by just thanking you for what you've done.  Jason Greenblatt: Thank you. Thank you, and Shana Tova to everybody, thank you for all that you do. Jason Isaacson: Thank you. So you were intimately involved in negotiations to reach normalization agreements between Israel and the Kingdom of Morocco, the Kingdom of Bahrain, of course, the United Arab Emirates. Can you take us behind the scenes of these negotiations? At what point during the first term of President Trump did this become a priority for the administration, and when did it seem that it might actually be a real possibility? Jason Greenblatt: So I have the benefit, of course, of looking backward, right? We didn't start out to create the Abraham Accords. We started out to create peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians, which, as Dan knows, and so many people here know, including you Jason, seems to be an impossible task. But I would say that if I follow the breadcrumbs, my first meeting with Yousef Al Otaiba was a lunch, where it was the first time I actually ever met an Emirati, the first time I understood the psychology of the Emiratis. And others. I realized that the world had changed tremendously.  Everything that you heard about anti-Israel wasn't part of the conversation. I'll go so far as to say, when I went to the Arab League Summit that took place in Jordan in March of 2017 where I met every foreign minister. And I'm not going to tell you that I loved many of those meetings, or 85% of the conversation, where it wasn't exactly excited about Israel and what Israel stood for. There were so many things in those conversations that were said that gave me hope.  So it was multiple years of being in the White House and constantly trying to work toward that. But I want to go backwards for a second, and you touched on this in your speech, there are many parents and grandparents of the Abraham Accords, and AJC is one of those parents or grandparents. There are many people who work behind the scenes, Israeli diplomats and so many others. And I'm sure the Kingdom of Morocco, where the architecture was built for something like the Abraham Accords, everybody wanted regional peace and talked about Middle East peace. But we were fortunate, unfortunately for the Palestinians who left the table, which was a big mistake, I think, on their part, we're very fortunate to take all of that energy and all of that hard work and through a unique president, President Trump, actually create that architecture.  On a sad note, I wouldn't say that when I left the White House, I thought I'd be sitting here thinking, you know, five years out, I thought there'd be lots of countries that would already have signed and all the trips that I take to the Middle East, I thought would be much. Now they're easy for me, but we're in a very, very different place right now. I don't think I ever would have envisioned that. Jason Isaacson: Thank you. The administration has talked a great deal about expanding the Abraham Accords, of course, and as have we. Indeed, at an AJC program that we had in Washington in February with Special Envoy Steven Witkoff, he talked publicly for the first time about Lebanon and Syria joining the Accords. Obviously, with both of those countries, their new political situation presents new possibilities.  However, the ongoing war in Gaza, as we've been discussing with Ambassador Shapiro, and Israel's actions, including most recently striking Hamas in Doha, have further isolated Israel in the region and made an expansion of the accords harder to envision. At least, that's the way it seems. Given the current situation in the Middle East. Do you think the Trump administration can be successful in trying to broker new agreements, or do the current politics render that impossible in the short term? How hopeful are you? Jason Greenblatt: So I remain hopeful. First of all, I think that President Trump is a unique president because he's extremely close to the Israeli side, and he's very close to the Arab side. And he happens to have grandchildren who are both, right. I think, despite this terrible time that we're facing, despite hostage families, I mean, the terrible things that they have to live through and their loved ones are living it through right now, I still have hope. There's no conversation that I have in the Arab world that still doesn't want to see how those Abraham Accords can be expanded. Dan, you mentioned the Arab media. It's true, the Arab world has completely lost it when it comes to Israel, they don't see what I see, what I'm sure all of you see.  I'm no fan of Al Jazeera, but I will say that there are newspapers that I write for, like Arab News. And when I leave the breakfast room in a hotel in Riyadh and I look at the headlines of, not Al Jazeera, but even Arab News, I would say, Wow, what these people are listening to and reading, what they must think of us. And we're seeing it now play out on the world stage. But despite all that, and I take my kids to the Middle East all the time, we have dear friends in all of those countries, including very high level people. I've gotten some great Shana Tovas from very high level people. They want the future that was created by the Abraham Accords. How we get there at this particular moment is a big question mark. Jason Isaacson: So we touched on this a little bit in the earlier conversation with Dan Shapiro:. Your team during the first Trump administration was able to defer an Israeli proposal to annex a portion of the West Bank, thanks to obviously, the oped written by Ambassador Al Otaiba, and the very clear position that that government took, that Israel basically had a choice, normalization with the UAE or annexation. Once again, there is discussion now in Israel about annexation. Now the President, as Ambassador Shapiro just said, made a very dramatic statement just a couple of hours ago. How do you see this playing out? Do you think that annexation is really off the table now? And if it were not off the table, would it prevent the continuation of the agreements that were reached in 2020 and the expansion of those agreements to a wider integration of Israel in the region? Jason Greenblatt: To answer that, I think for those of you who are in the room, who don't know me well, you should understand my answer is coming from somebody who is on the right of politics, both in Israel and here. In fact, some of my Palestinian friends would say that sometimes I was Bibi's mouthpiece. But I agree with President Trump and what he said earlier today that Dan had pointed out, I don't think this is the time. I don't think it's the place. And I was part of the team that wrote the paperwork that would have allowed Israel to . . . you use the word annexation. I'll say, apply Israeli sovereignty. You'll use the word West Bank, I'll use Judea, Samaria.  Whatever the label is, it really doesn't matter. I don't think this is the time to do it. I think Israel has so many challenges right now, militarily, hostages, there's a million things going on, and the world has turned against Israel. I don't agree with those that are pushing Bibi. I don't know if it's Bibi himself, but I hope that Bibi could figure out a way to get out of that political space that he's in. And I think President Trump is making the right call. Jason Isaacson: So, I was speaking with Emirati diplomats a couple of days ago, who were giving me the sense that Israel hasn't gotten the message that the Palestinian issue is really important to Arab leaders. And we talked about this with Ambassador Shapiro earlier, that it's not just a rhetorical position adopted by Arab leaders. It actually is the genuine view of these Arab governments. Is that your sense as well that there needs to be something on the Palestinian front in order to advance the Abraham Accords, beyond the countries that we've established five years ago? Jason Greenblatt: You know, when I listened to Dan speak, and I told him this after his remarks, I'm always reminded that even though we disagree around the edges on certain things, if you did a Venn diagram, there would be a lot of overlap. I agree with how he sees the world. But I want to take it even back to when I was in the White House.  There are many times people said, Oh, the Arabs don't care about the Palestinians. They don't care. We could just do whatever we want. It's not true. They may care more about their own countries, right? They all have their visions, and it's important to them to advance their own visions. The Palestinian cause may not have been as important, but there is no way that they were going to abandon the Palestinians back then, and I don't think the UAE or the Kingdom of Morocco or others having entered into the Abraham Accords, abandoned the Palestinians. I think that was the wrong way to look at it, but they are certainly not going to abandon the Palestinians now. And I think that how Dan described it, which is there has to be some sort of game plan going forward. Whether you want to call it a state, which, I don't like that word, but we can't continue to live like this. I'm a grandfather now of three. I don't want my grandchildren fighting this fight. I really don't. Is there a solution?  Okay, there's a lot of space between what I said and reality, and I recognize that, but it's incumbent on all of us to keep trying to figure out, is there that solution? And it's going to include the Palestinians. I just want to close my answer with one thing that might seem odd to everybody. I'm not prone to quoting Saeb Erekat, who I disagreed with, the late Saeb Erekat, who I disagreed with just about on everything, but he used to tell me, Jason, the answer isn't in the Koran, it's not in the Torah, it's not in the Christian Bible, and the Israelis and the Palestinians are not leaving the space. So let's figure out a solution that we could all live with. So that's how I see it. Jason Isaacson: Thank you for that. One last question. I also heard in another conversation with other em righty diplomats the other day that the conflict isn't between Arabs and Israelis or Arabs and Jews, it's between moderates and extremists, and that the UAE is on the side of the moderates, and Morocco is on the side of the moderates, and the Kingdom of Bahrain is on the side of the moderates, and Israel is on the side of the moderates. And that's what we have to keep in our minds.   But let me also ask you something that we've been saying for 30 years across the region, which is, if you believe in the Palestinian cause, believe in rights for the Palestinians, you will advance that cause by engaging Israel, not by isolating Israel. Is that also part of the argument that your administration used five years ago? Jason Greenblatt: 100%. I think, I mean, I kept pushing for it and eventually they did it, for the Israelis and the Arabs to engage directly. Yes, the US plays a role, and they could play a moderating role. They could play somewhat of a coercive role. Nobody's going to force the Israelis, or frankly, even the Palestinians, to do anything they don't want to do, but getting them in the room so there are no missed signals, no missed expectations, I think, is the key part of this solution. I'm still hopeful, just to go back to your prior question, that they could get the right people in the room and somebody like President Trump, together with Emirati diplomats, Moroccan diplomats and others. They could talk rationally, and sanely, and appropriately, and we'll get somewhere good. Jason Isaacson: Ok, look ahead. We just marked the fifth anniversary of the Abraham Accords. Will there be a 10th Anniversary of the Abraham Accords, and will it look the same that it is now? Jason Greenblatt: No, I think it's going to be better. Yes, I think there's going to be a 10th Anniversary. I think there will be challenges. But maybe the best way I could answer this is, when the, I'll call it, the beeper incident in Lebanon happened. Okay, quite, quite a feat. I was in a conference room at a client of mine in the Middle East. Most of the room was filled with Lebanese Arabs, Christians and Muslims and some Druze. And it was unusual for everybody's phone to buzz at once, because I'm usually following the Israeli and American news. They're following Arab news. All the phones buzz. So somebody stopped talking, and we all picked up our phone to look at it. And I'm looking at the headlines thinking, oh, boy, am I in the wrong room, right?  And after a minute or so of people kind of catching their breath, understanding what happened, two or three of them said, wow, Jason. Like, that's incredible. Like, you know, I wasn't in the White House anymore, but they also want a different future, right? They are sick and tired of Lebanon being a failed state. Their kids are like my kids, and they're just . . . they're everything that they're building is for a different future, and I see that time and time again. So to go back to the UAE diplomats comment, which I hear all the time as well. It really is a fight of moderates against extremists. The extremists are loud and they're very bad. We know that, but we are so much better. So working together, I think we're going to get to somewhere great. Jason Isaacson: Very good. Okay. Final question. You can applaud, it's okay. Thank you for that. Out of the Abraham Accords have grown some regional cooperation agreements. I too, you too, IMEC, the India, Middle East, Europe, Economic corridor. Do you see that also, as part of the future, the creation of these other regional agreements, perhaps bringing in Japan and Korea and and other parts of the world into kind of expanding the Abraham Accords? In ways that are beneficial to many countries and also, at the same time, deepening the notion of Israelis, Israel's integration in the region. Jason Greenblatt: 100% and I know I think AJC has been very active on the IMEC front. People used to say, Oh, this is not an economic peace. It isn't an economic peace, but nor is economics not a very important part of peace. So all of these agreements, I encourage you to keep working toward them, because they will be needed. In fact, one of the fights that I used to have with Saeb Erekat and President Abbas all the time is, I know you're not an economic issue, but let's say we manage to make peace. What's going to happen the next day? You need an economic plan. Let's work on the economic plan. So whether it's IMEC or something else, just keep working at it. Go, you know, ignore the bad noise. The bad noise is here for a little while, unfortunately, but there will be a day after, and those economic agreements are what's going to be the glue that propels it forward. Jason Isaacson: Jason Greenblatt, really an honor to be with you again. Thank you.  Manya Brachear Pashman: In our next episode of the series, we will explore more of the opportunities and challenges presented by the Abraham Accords and who might be the next country to sign the landmark peace agreement.  Atara Lakritz is our producer. T.K. Broderick is our sound engineer. Special thanks to Jason Isaacson, Sean Savage, and the entire AJC team for making this series possible.  You can subscribe to Architects of Peace on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and you can learn more at AJC.org/ArchitectsofPeace. The views and opinions of our guests don't necessarily reflect the positions of AJC. You can reach us at podcasts@ajc.org. If you've enjoyed this episode, please be sure to spread the word, and hop onto Apple Podcasts or Spotify to rate us and write a review to help more listeners find us. Music Credits: Middle East : ID: 279780040; Composer: Eric Sutherland Inspired Middle East: ID: 241884108; Composer: iCENTURY Mystical Middle East: ID: 212471911; Composer: Vicher

Notes and Links to Nathan Thrall's Work       Nathan Thrall is an American writer living in Jerusalem. In 2024, he received the Pulitzer Prize for General Nonfiction for A Day in the Life of Abed Salama. An international bestseller, it was translated into more than thirty languages, selected as a New York Times Book Review Editors' Choice, and named a best book of the year by over twenty publications, including The New Yorker, The Economist, and Time. He is also the author of The Only Language They Understand. His reporting, essays, and criticism have appeared in the London Review of Books, The Guardian, The New York Times Magazine, and The New York Review of Books. He spent a decade at the International Crisis Group, where he was director of the Arab-Israeli Project, and has taught at Bard College.  Buy A Day in the Life of Abed Salama: Anatomy of a Jerusalem Tragedy   Nathan's Website   2021 The New York Review of Books Article: “A Day in the Life of Abed Salama”   At about 1:15, Nathan recounts the experience of winning the Pulitzer Prize, and notes the wonderful ways in which the book's protagonists and others close to him have celebrated the achievement  At about 3:20, Nathan provides purchasing info and book details  At about 4:15, Nathan responds to Pete's question about the added significance of the book being published on October 3, 2023, four days before a pivotal event At about 6:30, Nathan reflects on how “nothing [much] has changed” regarding the organizations (the “gatekeepers”) who cancelled events with him and Abed Salama, with perhaps more of these organizations digging in on standing with Israel At about 9:30, Nathan notes that “organized political money” is all on one side in the “corrupt political system” At about 12:35, Pete wonders about the “tail wagging the dog” regarding the voting public and the politicians, and Nathan expands upon the reasoning and details for this “gap” At about 14:35, Pete asks Nathan about seeds for the book, and about how the book speaks to the idea that the Israeli/Palestinian conflict did not start on October 7, 2023 At about 15:35, Nathan explains the apartheid and “walled ghetto” at the center of the book, and talks about how this ghetto is a microcosm for Israeli policy At about 18:30, Nathan responds to Pete's questions about and admiration for his objective hand in writing the book At about 20:45, Pete sets the book's exposition At about 21:45, Nathan notes the “striking” fact of talking to parents with their “unwarranted” guilt since the bus accident, in response to Pete wondering about Nathan's broaching such a horrible topic with survivors At about 24:05, The two reflect on the innocence of youth as Nathan recounts the details of parents and family looking for their children and relatives after the bus accident At about 27:30, Nathan explains how just the telling of the basics of Abed's story, including his odyssey just to find his son in the hospital, was to “tell of apartheid” At about 29:00, Pete compliments the ways in which Nathan's tracing Abed's childhood and youth and Nathan expounds on how the personal stories have the reader see “the world through [the character's eyes]” At about 31:45, Nathan shares a recent experience that shows how life is micromanaged for Palestinians in Israel, revolving around a bridge crossing for Abed, his wife Haifa, and Nathan At about 34:45, Pete asks Nathan to explain the colored-permit system involving Palestinian ID cards and how the intifadas changed the processes, including for Abed At about 39:50, Pete and Nathan talk about different Palestinian cultural and political factions, as described in the book At about 40:30, Nathan explains “bypass roads” and the ways in which they represent Israeli control of Palestinians' lives; in so doing, he points out inaccuracies in the ways that democracy and Israel have often been linked  At about 47:35, Nathan expands on “fabric of life roads” and “sterile roads”-brutally racist as an official name-and “gerrymandering”-mapping-done by Dany Tirza, featured pretty prominently in the book At about 50:05, Nathan talks about schooling for Palestinians and how Israeli control is rendered in the book-he describes the "forensic analysis” of the bus accident and homes in on the forced walling-in of Palestinians  At about 53:00, Nathan further explains land use and land possession as strategies  At about 54:35, Pete remarks on the banal of the Israeli Occupation and asks Nathan's thoughts on the “reverberations” of Israel's seemingly-small and detailed actions/policy of moving the Palestinians out  At about 58:00, Nathan responds to Pete's questions about how an average Jewish Israeli lives his/her life with “informational apartheid”  At about 1:01:05, Nathan states the common narrative about Israel's history and the continued bloodshed for average Israelis At about 1:04:15, Nathan recounts an anecdote about a publishing company that has asked him multiple questions about early Israeli history  At about 1:06:05, Nathan reflects on the task of sitting with parents and relatives during the emotionally-wrenching times and listening to their stories     You can now subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, and leave me a five-star review. You can also ask for the podcast by name using Alexa, and find the pod on Stitcher, Spotify, and on Amazon Music. Follow Pete on IG, where he is @chillsatwillpodcast, or on Twitter, where he is @chillsatwillpo1. You can watch other episodes on YouTube-watch and subscribe to The Chills at Will Podcast Channel. Please subscribe to both the YouTube Channel and the podcast while you're checking out this episode.       Pete is very excited to have one or two podcast episodes per month featured on the website of Chicago Review of Books. The audio will be posted, along with a written interview culled from the audio. His conversation with Hannah Pittard, a recent guest, is up at Chicago Review.     Sign up now for The Chills at Will Podcast Patreon: it can be found at patreon.com/chillsatwillpodcastpeterriehl      Check out the page that describes the benefits of a Patreon membership, including cool swag and bonus episodes. Thanks in advance for supporting Pete's one-man show, DIY podcast and extensive reading, research, editing, and promoting to keep this independent podcast pumping out high-quality content!    This month's Patreon bonus episode features an exploration of flawed characters, protagonists who are too real in their actions, and horror and noir as being where so much good and realistic writing takes place.    Pete has added a $1 a month tier for “Well-Wishers” and Cheerleaders of the Show.     This is a passion project, a DIY operation, and Pete would love for your help in promoting what he's convinced is a unique and spirited look at an often-ignored art form.    The intro song for The Chills at Will Podcast is “Wind Down” (Instrumental Version), and the other song played on this episode was “Hoops” (Instrumental)” by Matt Weidauer, and both songs are used through ArchesAudio.com.     Please tune in for Episode 301 with Nishant Batsha, the author of the novel A Bomb Placed Close to the Heart, his 2025 novel set between California and New York at the dawn of World War I. His first novel, Mother Ocean Father Nation was a finalist for 2023 Lambda Literary Award, longlisted for a 2023 Mark Twain American Voice in Literature Award, and named one of the best books of 2022 by NPR.    This episode airs on October 7.    Please go to ceasefiretoday.org, and/or https://act.uscpr.org/a/letaidin to call your congresspeople and demand an end to the forced famine and destruction of Gaza and the Gazan people.