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The hidden sickness that destroys most humans, mostly entrepreneurs as well. And this has been a thread that's been coming up across my desk, in my zoom calls and at the event and in coaching. I'm going to give you some energy through osmosis. I was in Mount Shasta, California a couple years ago, doing some deep men's work on myself. Six days of deep work practice, transformative work healing, some childhood trauma and really deciding on who I wanted to be in the world and making a declaration to go build this person to build this man. And I was sitting out in the grass and if you've never witnessed Mount Shasta in California, it is a sight to behold.  You can see it from, I don't know, 40, 50 miles away and we're right at the base of it. And so this thing is massive and I sat out there and I just spent a couple of days in silence at the completion of this. And I was sitting there thinking, reflecting, and this is what I wrote, and I want this to be thread. This is just something I'm sharing with you, but it's called, I am a mountain.The man who becomes a mountain does so by staying focused on becoming a mountain inch by inch, the foundation gets wider, stronger, and more stable storms come earthquake shift. Man tramples and the mountains still always grows. Every storm brings rain that helps the plant grow and thrive the cracks from the earthquake, widen the base and that rainwater naturally filters giving man drinking water.As they trample, see the mountain knows there are things happening outside of its existence, but it never allows them to influence its mission. So with every trigger storm disaster, the mountain finds a new opportunity to evolve and grow to his mission, to be a mountain.I wrote that as a permission slip for myself to focus as a way to realize there's nothing outside of my control. I can't control anything outside of my sphere. I can control my reaction. I can control my intention. I can control my energy and I can control the actions that I take, but I can't always control.What's going to come in. I can't control when the world's going to happen. An ad account is going to get shut down. An employee is going to quit. Somebody is going to steal a competitor, rip us off. I can't control those, but I was always can control myself. My response, my reaction and the choices that I make.And so I wrote that as a reminder of myself to take action, which feeds perfectly into what I'm talking about on today's episode, which is finding, okay. And eradicating the hidden sickness that I watched destroy most entrepreneurs, myself included.We’re entrepreneurs, right? We're the ones who stand here and we look out into the future. And we look out into the future and we determine what we want it to look like. And then we have the courage to come back into the present and start building it to be true. That is exactly what entrepreneurship is and even deeper, even if it's not entrepreneurship, even if it's fitness, even if it's nutrition, whatever goal it is that you have in life, your deciding on what you want it to look like for you, which means the, how can only be determined by you. And I always love asking this question because people come to me like, okay, here's my vision. How do I do it? And I was like if I answer how, then you're building my vision to not yours. And so it's a really important distinction to understand is that the, how has to come from you? What, how stands for in the world that I live in?Wait, waiting on progress. Waiting on dreams, waiting on action. Waiting on permission, waiting for someone else waiting for it to magically happen. But the truth is that if you plant something, you have to tend to it to grow it. If you plant something, you'll have to water it to grow it. If you set a destination, you have to step towards it every single day. And how is the biggest sickness that I see we will live in how. And overanalyze how, and try to come up with a perfect plan in how, as a form of validation and justification that we just haven't taken action or gotten the results that we want yet, because we don't know how well news flash, none of us know how.Business is just a series of guessing and testing, and then continuing what works and then guessing and testing again. So as our life, so is our fitness. You can have the best trainers, the best coaches, the best people in the world give you a plan. And if you want to succeed, eventually that plan becomes nothing more than a lane guide and you build your own parameters inside of it because you are unique. And how was my biggest enemy as an entrepreneur? How, and I thrived under the pressure. I loved the trauma response, loved the pressure but I really didn't. It was just a new form of distraction for me and what was missing. And you hear me talk about this all the time, which was space. It's that I want to build something. I want to build the vision that I feel or that I had clarity on in my brain, but I don't want to give myself the space to lead into my own soul, my own heart and my own mind and trust myself enough to take a step in the direction to build the vision.So instead of building everybody else's cause I'm copying them and replicating them or waiting for somebody else to tell me to do it. And this is mild and trivial, but it happens all the time. We're entrepreneurs, we're human beings that want to be different. We carved the path. So right. If you drive up to an off-roading section in a remote part of the country, you've never been to before.And there's a mountain in front of you or a Lake you want to get to, and no road has been paved. You have to make one. And if you really want to get to that Lake, if you really want to get to that mountain, then you will find a way to make a road. You might drive over it. You might hike through it. You might chop something down, you might do a million things, but if you really want to get to that Lake, and if you really want to get to that mountain, you're going to find a way.But ultimately it will always come down to the person holding the tool, not the tool itself. And as I hear this question over and over, everyone's tell me what tool to use. Tell me what tool I need. Tell me what strategy and tactic, and I'm like, Hey, listen, you can have 18 hammers, but if you don't know how to use one, the other 17, aren't going to matter.So I would challenge you to use you for you to be the tool for you to find the how for you to make the commitment for you to take the step and realize that along the way. If you get to a point where you're an action and you realize you need a tool, will then you pick it up. But I watched people trying to build toolboxes with thousands of tools in them before they're ever taking action.So they can have a tool to go, but they don't realize that their packets too heavy and they can't even start. You need real-world feedback to determine which direction to go. You need the inputs from you taking action to see what adjustments should be made. You need to put yourself in motion. To build the momentum and confidence and figure out where your honor you're off. But none of that comes from standing still in how, which you now know stands for. Hold on, wait a minute. I E stagnate, I E stay stuck. I E don't progress. And if we're not progressing, we're regressing. And I'm going to give you a couple of steps that I use, that I have my team use, that I have my students use.But first you have to understand that if you want something, it's your vision. If you want something it's yours to build, it's your step to take? It's your vision to design. It's your dream to find. It's yours. It's always going to be your step. It's always going to be your race, your tool, your game, your business, your relationship, your fitness now.Can you call on help? Of course you can. Can you get some advice? Of course you can. Can you get some direction? Of course you can, but ultimately it will always be down on you taking the action. And so rather than planning a perfect race, I'd rather you start running and call for help when you're in the middle of it. Because at least if you stop at mile seven and you need to take an hour break and we can address a blister, you're already seven miles in, rather than spending an hour at the starting line, how's it going to work? But this might happen. But what if I have this? I don't have mole skin here. I didn't tie my shoes tight enoughIt's not going to work. I'm going to tell you right now that I've made a lot of mistakes. I've made a lot of mistakes in entrepreneurship in life. I've screw it. I've made a lot of mistakes in life. And I will say that when I look back at my life and all that I've succeeded with and all the big labels and the things that I had on my vision board, and like basically me living a life that I dreamed of, and I have everything I want right now.There were really only a couple of things that were underneath all of them, one of them was taking action and my willingness to take action. And the second one was consistency over a long period of time, but consistency can only begin if you start.Stop moving the starting line. This is a deeper iteration of that same concept, except this one should cut all of it out. Because if you tell me you want to become an entrepreneur and you haven't started yet, if you have a general idea, like I want to coach people, or I want to sell a product, I bet you, if I asked you what are three things that you could do today? That would be a positive input and helping you accomplish that goal, you could identify them and you could do them. And instead of planning and overthinking, if you just did those three things, you would be closer to that goal. And I know I use so many metaphors and analogies that I need to keep them congruent, but the one that always comes up to me, that always seems so, so simple is you come to me and you're like, George, I want to run a marathon. I'm like, that's amazing. Okay. Cool. And they're like, this is what I did. I watched a hundred YouTube videos. I hired a running coach to work on my gate. I got the best shoes in the world. I'm doing my diet. I'm going to study all of this for six months and I'm going to run. I'm like, or that's dope. You could put your running shoes on and go for a five minute run and then study it and then go for a six minute run and then study it. And you can be in the practice of it. And I'm going to say it. It's scary being an action. It is scary being in action. I don't know if anybody else feels that way, but I feel that way, like when I'm standing on stage and I have 75 entrepreneurs in the room and I'm like, I have a schedule, but the schedule doesn't feel right in this moment.I feel if I threw that out of the schedule and did this, it would work. And then to take 75 preneurs that have no idea what I'm doing. And the lean into it is a very vulnerable and scary place, but it's also very rewarding and the ability to be seen and to take a chance and to push and to trust because what's the worst that happened.So Hey guys, that didn't work. And they're like, yeah, that sucked. I'm like, all right, let's go back to the schedule. But what's the best that happens is that it does work and it was 10 times more effective, 20 times more effective. Because I trusted and I took the action, but it's scary. Like I'm not sitting over here being like, Oh, it's so easy to go keynote for all those people or to go on that big podcast or to do coaching calls or to realize that I could give them a strategy and tactic answer, but I think it's deeper, but I got to say it anyways and they might not like me.It's scary. It's scary to put money and time and energy into things that might not work. But I believe 95% of everything you put in will work if you give it the right intention and the right energy. But it starts by taking action and not asking how. Because how stands for hold on. Wait. And you don't get to wait any more. No waiting on progress. No waiting on your dreams. No waiting on permission. No waiting on somebody else. No waiting on funding. No waiting. If you're met with a roadblock assume it's going to be there. So find a way around. If you're waiting for funding and it's not coming, but great. What might it look like 10 other ways if you're waiting for that one thing don't wait, what might it look like to do differently?What might we do anyways? Can we do both? Like you have to start challenging your thinking and you have to start finding a bigger range to sharpen that edge so you can iterate because the only guarantee in business is that it's going to change every single day. And the truth was is that I remained stuck in the how, because I was scared to take the action and trust myself enough to live in the uncertainty because taking action means I can't rely on a book or a coach or a strategy or tactic. It means I have to rely on myself. And that wasn't an edge that I practiced. I never sharpened that edge. I ignored that one, watching videos, reading books, coming up with plans, the best things ever, but those were distractions for me taking action. Because at the end of the day, I was afraid to take a step because I didn't trust myself enough to step.And really that boiled down to me, not spending enough time with myself to get clear on where I wanted to go and realize that all I have is my ability to step. And the only thing stopping me is me. And so when I think about the, how disease, cause that's what I'm labeling it. I literally think that it's the hidden sickness that destroys most human beings.We want it to be perfect. We'll wait and we'll do it really big, but then we'll quit instead of just doing a little bit every single day. And Wes Watson said this in a video, I heard it a couple months ago. Success in life doesn't come from hitting a home run. It comes from hitting base hits every single day, and it's not as fun. It's boring. It's completely boring. It really is, but I would rather be bored, happy and successful than miserable, reactive over hustling, not sleeping and always thinking the world is going to end because I'm hiding and waiting for this big home run that's not going to come. The home runs come, but they come occasionally and they come as surprises when you're consistent every day. And the consistency starts by taking action.You never find the how you build the how. You never find the, how you build the how. And that was probably the biggest secret for me in achieving happiness and success at the same time, because it was something that I struggled with. I want to use the word horrendously. Like I struggled with it horrendously because it consumed everything that I did. I would be like this isn't working. What do I do? And then I would go study and obsess and I would find thousands and thousands of things of ways I could do it. But then I would have so much that I wouldn't know what to do or what to choose first. So then I did nothing and stated an action instead of realizing that, Hey, what I just didn't work.But let me step in a different direction and then ask myself how as I go. And so there will never be a how for you that anybody else can lay out because it's your vision, it's your goal. It's your life and it's your race car. And so your job is to realize that you will never find the how, but you can build the how starting right now.Let's get into defeating the how monster. So step number one is get fuzzy. Step number two is get current .Step number three is find yourself and step number four is take one step. And so here's what I mean by that. So step number one, get fuzzy. Okay. There's this concept of fuzzy goals. And I know my buddy, Brad told me about it. I don't remember who teaches it.But fuzzy goals are the easiest way to win. And so the way that I think about this, as long as you have clarity, I E you have one iteration different than your current life that you want to be different. You have a fuzzy goal. And so the mistake that I made was I'd be like, okay, where do I want to do?And I'd be like, I need to have contract type clarity on what my life looks like before I take action. But that doesn't really happen. It doesn't exist and it's not going to be that way. And so what you need is a fuzzy goal and a fuzzy goal means Hey, you know what I do want to be in better shape.Cool. You might need a couple of weeks figure out what workouts and diets, but can we agree that if you want to be in better shape and that's a fuzzy goal, then you could take an action. Just go for a 10 minute walk today, but accomplish that, or you could drink more water and it would accomplish that.So like for me in my business, I don't have a revenue goal. I don't have a team size goal. I have a minimum what I want to pay my employee goal. And I have a lifestyle that I want to live by giving back to charity and rescuing animals. And we want to open our own school for children here. And we want to run retreat centers for healing modalities and breath work.I have a vision of what that will look like in Montana. I don't know how much revenue it's going to take. I don't know how to get teachers. I don't know how to do any of that stuff, but I know that when I record a podcast and I'd run an event and I. Work with consulting clients that I'm generating revenue, that's going to be used in that direction and we'll figure out how to best use it.Once the business is funded, where it needs to be. And so what you need to get is you need to get a fuzzy goal. A fuzzy goal means you need to have a general direction in which you want to go. And as long as you have. Clarity that you're moving forward. I E if the circle's 360 degrees, as long as you're moving in the hundred and 79 degree range, you're making forward progress.And listen, there's sometimes you'll take a step back, but you can step forward again. So you need to get fuzzy. And by fuzzy, that doesn't mean in 85 areas. You can't accomplish 85 things at once. So you gotta look for the common denominator of the input. And so like for me, if I wanted to output more in my business, everyone would think Oh, produce more.But for me, I would need to work on my personal health more because I already give a whole lot of energy out and I have the capacity to give more, but it wouldn't be sustainable. So I would work on. Increasing my cardio eating, even cleaner, prioritizing sleep. And then in turn, I would have more capacity in business.And so what you want to find is the common denominator, right? And so maybe it's just connecting with more customers. Cool. If that's a fuzzy goal for you, like I just want to connect with more customers. Awesome. Then you have a good direction to head in and you can ask yourself every day. Did I connect with more customers today?So step number one is you want to get fuzzy. Okay. Get fuzzy. Step number two is you've got to get current and current means, where are you? Because in order to go somewhere different, you have to know where you are, where are you spending your time? Where's your energy being depleted? What are the things that you're doing that are moving the needle and making you happy.But also what are the things that you're doing that are making you miserable and draining you? And you need to know where you are. Because if you call me on the phone and you're like, George, I don't want to live here anymore. I don't know what to do. I want to get out, but you can't describe where you are.We can't help you. You got to turn some light on your current situation and get really current to where you are. And that might be just in one area. You might be like, God, I'm not going to bed on time. I'm using my phone too much. I'm addicted to social media. I'm not eating clean and boom, I really just want to be here.And that will give you that will give you the path or direction in which to go. Because when you're current, you now know what levers you can pull. So that's step two. Step number three is you got to find yourself, and this is my favorite one. Find yourself means you're not going to accomplish your goals, your fuzzy goals, or change anything by just filling all of the space to distract from yourself.You're going to have feelings you're going to have to start breathwork or walking or silence, or do something to get yourself plugged into your intuition. It's your vision. It's your life, it's your world. But you have to know how to use yourself as your tool, because you are the most effective tool that you have.But if you don't practice your own tool, It will never work. And your tool isn't consuming YouTube videos or podcasts or other people's social content. It's being in a relationship with yourself, going for a walk in silence, having a five minute day stillness practice, spending time in boardroom going and filling your tank going and doing pottery, going for a hike, going for a Lake swim, going for a mountain bike, but present with yourself so you can explore that.And you can check in with that and you can be there. And so my big recommendations breathwork and stillness, and that will help you find yourself. So you can start to develop that relationship with self and trust to just take an action and take an action and take an action. So that's step three and step number four. This is the hardest one for me. Take an action. Identify those one to three things every day that if you do, you're guaranteed to move away from your current state and closer to your fuzzy goal and do them prioritize them, put them in your calendar, get accountability, make the choice to do it. And remember that you might want to build the Taj Mahal or one of the Seven Wonders of the World. But all of those started with one thing, one brick. One shovel one worker, one thing. And as long as you are doing at least one thing, every single day, I guarantee that you're progressing closer towards your goals. And that is how you defeat the how monster, the house sickness, the how disease, whatever we're going to call it.I'm going to call it the how disease and it stands for hold on, wait. And you're not going to win by waiting now. One disclosure, one, disclaimer. I'm not saying to be frivolous with your money. I'm not saying to go, take your entire life savings and invest it in blank. It's a little bit different, have common sense and have some reasoning with yourself.But in anything else I'm asking you to take some more action. And so my challenge for you. My challenge for you after today's episode is to just take some time, take 20 minutes, 20 minutes, and reflect in the last month, three months, six months, and ask yourself what's something that's important to me that I haven't been taking action on. Is it my health, my fitness, my business, my relationship, my kids, my art, my craft. I want you to find. One area that you haven't taken action on. And I want you to get a fuzzy goal around it. When you might know what that is. I want you to get current. I want to really check in with yourself and I want you to take a step in that direction.And I want you to commit to it. I want you to commit to doing it at least every day for seven days, maybe five minutes, maybe two minutes, maybe 20 minutes. But if it's important to you, you'll prioritize it. And if you really want it. You'll do it because it's not building itself and it's not getting any closer by staring at it. So I want you to bring it into your view and I want you to start walking towards it

Hello and welcome to the Bottom-up skills podcast. I'm Mike Parsons the CEO of Qualitance, and we're going to do one final deep dive on our trends report. We talked about four really significant trends. Those that really touched upon this notion of collaboration. And for the first time we really went deep in our annual trends report on this idea of collaboration.What's interesting is we actually. We usually only touch on emerging technology and issues with very specific to technology or usability kind of hardcore product stuff. But this time we went broader because we feel like after 2020, and that whole work from home thing, like collaboration is back on the table, it's ready to be [00:01:00] discussed.And so what I want to do is a special edition. Of the show for you today. I want to go deep into how we can think about collaboration. Let's take a moment to capture all of those ideas, reflect on them and see how perfecting collaboration is essential for creating an agile mindset in the digital age.All right. I'm going to do a quick little context here before we look at the actions that we can take on collaboration. Don't forget. Here we are. 2021. We now have customers demanding Omni channel direct to customer experiences, but also on the other side, employees want to be able to work from home and have entertainer hybrid way of working.So what happens is technology teams plug together all sorts of platforms from CRM, CMS, payments, ERP, you name it, everything's getting pointed together. And it's a little bit of house of cards that leads to complexity. And it's not only complexity from a platform. [00:02:00] Point of view. There's also complexity on the people's side because Hey, who's the systems architect who knows how this whole thing works together.So what we have is this obligation to get technology into all the different touch points, to be everywhere for everyone. And it's hard, right? That's the pressure that product teams are under right now because they're serving more stakeholders than ever serving more platforms than ever. Stuff just got complex and it's changing real fast.And that's why the agility mindset is the essential thing to have. If you want to survive in the digital age, in that knowledge worker age, otherwise you're going to get snowed down by all that complexity. So I want to now take a moment now that we kind of set the scene. We've got the complexity conundrum.We know we have to be agile. We're going to get that tech under control, but equally, if, if you know another word for tech is all the platforms [00:03:00] need to be under control. Then it's also on the other side of things. It's the people who run that. Have to be under control, have to have clarity, have to have a lot of different things.And one of the biggest secret ingredients for getting your technology and your products under control is to have people working well. And to have people collaborating, you know, for me, collaboration is when one plus one equals three. When two people get together, you get an unexpectedly good result. Like, wow.Because two heads are better than one. So for me, that's, that's my pitch for collaboration, but let's look at like four key segments. It's almost a little architecture of collaboration. Let's look at what they are and let's look at what we can do in each of them to get our teams collaborating well. So they can be more agile so they can solve complex problems.And Hey, in the end of the day, they can go out into the world and put a product that's worth building that [00:04:00] social problems for its users. Okay. So there's four things that I mentioned. Here's what they are. So if you want to collaborate, here's the magic four things that make up collaboration, alignment, learning, engagement, and connection.So I'm going to dig into each of those and give you a quick recap on what you can do to get your team collaborating better. Number one, alignment. Well, for me, the saying here is to get the band singing the same song because actually one of the interesting things is every team, every business has a discreet unique way of working and thinking.But actually I challenge you. Where is that written down? Just pause for a moment. I want you to think where have we written down in our company? How we think, what models do we use and how do we work? And what you're going to find is invariably, it's never written down. It's [00:05:00] not written down, it's just done.It's just the culture of the organization. So this is particularly challenging. If you want to get aligned with new people on a team, There's no textbook to read. There's no playbook to pick up that says, this is how we think we use these to three different models and here's how we work. So if it's not written down, if it's through the doing, what are the things we can actually do to help people get aligned?Well, what we discovered in our trends report is there's two big things you should connect and be with. Your fellow band members, your team members daily, do not enter the estimate, the power of daily connection. It's something that came up a lot in the report, but in surveys and interviews with all these great product experts from around the world, definitely industries daily get together.So you might think about a standup or a scrum, or even just a sink. This is essential. The frequency [00:06:00] needs to be daily. If you want to particularly help new people. Understand how you think of work, or if you really want to kind of bring people back in the tent, as they say, you need to reconnect with them and to remind them of how we think and work.Now, the other big thing that we learned is it needs to be guided. And what I mean by that is you need to do a bit of show and tell. But then you need to start transferring. So don't make the mistake of, Oh, I'll just do it. Cause it's quickest. Maybe you do it once or twice. Maybe you do it once or twice and then give a voice over to your colleague.And then you might say, Hey, why don't you give it a go, I'll be right here. So if you want people to truly get it, how you think and how you work as a product team, then it should be daily rituals. With a lot of guided practice. There's no shortcuts here. I'm afraid. If you want to have people aligned, if you want to have them connected, there's no magic pill.They can take it's daily [00:07:00] rituals with guided practice. That's how you get people singing. The same song. Okay. So that's alignment. That was number one, number two, the second part of the world of collaboration. So first of all, you're aligned now you need to engage. That's. The second piece engagement starts with putting your teammates before yourself serve your teammates.And the first thing you can do there is welcome everyone. And every single idea that they want to bring to the table. Because if you want people to be engaged, this is actually where it starts and I'll show you how it works. So you need to drag, kicking and screaming people into the room and give them a voice, let them share their ideas.Welcome them. Don't criticize don't judge celebrate the contribution, all people and all ideas are welcome. This is really fundamental. [00:08:00] Then once that has happened. And all the ideas are up on the wall, invite everyone to challenge those ideas, improve those ideas, own those ideas, because here's, here's the real secret with engagement.If I've had a chance to challenge and improve the ideas about what we're doing, where we're going, how we're doing it. Invariably, because I've been heard, I will accept the direction we are going, even if I don't agree with it. Very important. So if I can challenge improve it, I will accept it. Even if it's not where I think we should go.I was heard. I was understood. I was acknowledged, Hey, I don't win them all this one. I didn't get it. Hey, the idea is not too bad. I can, I can sign up for that. And if you do that, then your employees are going to be truly engaged because you're not telling them [00:09:00] the company's vision or your vision. You are sharing with them, their vision.And they own their vision. They will uphold their vision. So that's how we get engagement. That's part two of the world of collaboration. Part three is about how we create real connection. And this is all about celebrating success, whether it's big or small personal shift, Oh, personal or shared, and it can be just the mere act of learning.Of growth as an individual growth as a team, doesn't have to be always, Hey, we hit a home run, right? Maybe you only got to first base, but you grew together. You learn together. This is really essential. And in fact it's pretty good. Exhausting. If you're always just hanging out for the big wins. Cause sometimes you need a lot of small wins to get to the beach.Sorry. If you want to celebrate growth, it's all about those learning moments [00:10:00] and share them for each other. And you know what. Celebrate your colleagues, growth and success before your own. And the key thing is to do it publicly. It's always best when it comes from a peer acknowledgement recognition is always best from those who are doing the work with you.It means the world to them, and that's how you connect to a team. And that's how you create that winning team atmosphere. A fourth part of collaboration is learning. There's so much to learn, because look, think about it. If you're doing something that's worth doing, it's probably some unknowns. There's probably some stretch goals.So Hey. We are all on a learning journey. Now, the important thing is you must put in the diary time to learn and you must learn to gather if you want to learn. Don't think it's just about you and the textbook and locking yourself in a room. Learn from others, get stimulation [00:11:00] inspiration from others. And remember this, the biggest insight of all was that we are all, both teachers and students.So sometimes you're a student, even if you're the CEO. Sometimes you're a teacher, even if you're the youngest person on the team, because in the end of the day, we are all teachers. We are all students and we should be learning 24 hours a day, seven days a week is all about the rate of learning will bring you success.Trust me. All right, this is the universe of collaboration. So let's just recap. Alignment, learning engagement connection are the four foundational activities of collaboration. So get everybody singing together, make sure that sometimes you're the teacher. Sometimes you're the student, embrace your colleagues and embrace their ideas to share the successes along the way.And you will truly build a great team. And if you still feel like learning after all [00:12:00] that head of it to bottom-up dot IO, you're going to find a lot of free courses. They're all open source. You can learn design thinking, agile lane. So very much you can even get our trends report bottom-up dot AI. That's where you get pulled to fun and games.All right. That's it for the bottom up skills podcast, that's a wrap.

FUN-ctionally Fit with Dai Manuel Dai Manuel is a super dad, dating his wife, with a lead by example way of living and a contagious personality, who is on a mission to positively impact one million role models around the globe to lead a FUN-ctionally fit life through education, encouragement, and community.  He is an award-winning digital thought leader and author, Distinguished Toastmaster & keynote speaker, former partner and Chief Operating Officer of a multi-million dollar retail company, and a sought after lifestyle mentor and executive performance coach. Dai knows the struggle of the juggle and keeping his health and happiness a priority. He models his work based on 5 F’s: Fitness, Family, Faith, and Finances with an overarching roof of FUN, built on a rock-solid foundation of Health. Nuggets of wisdom and inspiration to take action to be your best self are guaranteed when you connect with Dai! www.daimanuel.com www.feedingfatty.com Full Transcript Below Roy - Feeding Fatty (00:02): Hello, and welcome to another episode of feeding fatty I'm Roy I'm Terry. So we are the podcasts that, uh, you know, we like to Chronicle my journey and Terry is my support mechanisms. So we'd like to bring you talk about our different challenges, successes, and things that we've learned along the way through getting healthy weight loss. And, uh, we also bring, uh, have guests that have awesome stories to tell professionals in the field that can give us some actionable items. So today, without further ado, let's introduce our guests. Terry - Feeding Fatty (00:36): Okay. We are very happy to have Dai Manuel. He is a super dad dating his wife and currently doing life with his family around the globe. He is also an award winning digital thought leader and author executive performance coach and certified lifestyle mentor who empowers people to lead a functional functionally fit life through education, encouragement, and community day. Welcome to the show. Dai (01:08): Well, thank you very much, Terry and Roy was a nice little introduction. I was like, wow. I think I might've almost [inaudible]. Yeah. Thanks so much for taking time out of your day to be with us. We appreciate that. Yeah. Oh man. Well, you know what, uh, I just keep thinking about the title of your podcast, right? Eating fatty and I, it's such a great name and, uh, it brings back lots of memories for me. I'll tell you that, because I think we can all relate to that. We've all had periods in life where we fall out of health. When we're in that space, it certainly feels like we're just feeling bad and I've lived in that space. So I know it very well. Roy - Feeding Fatty (01:54): You know, we kicked it around Terry when we started this, Terry's like, we really need to Chronicle this because there not only is it for our mock accountability, but there are other people out there with the struggle as well. And we were kicking around names and I just jokingly threw that out there. And she's like, that's it that's right. Terry - Feeding Fatty (02:11): Like healthy lifestyle fitness at for you. What works Roy - Feeding Fatty (02:16): Part of that? I think the is that, um, no matter how healthy I may get, hopefully to get in the future is that, you know, I always have to be careful because I think once you, you know, it's like being a diabetic, once you've been fat, you could get that way again, very easy if you don't watch yourself. And so that's, the other thing is too, is that, you know, we can do a lot of stuff to get healthy, but it's trying to do it in a manner that we can do it for a long time Terry - Feeding Fatty (02:44): Lifestyle. Yeah. Yeah. Dai (02:48): Well, you know, it's all about sustainability, right? Lifestyle. I mean, it's the lifestyle we're always looking for that thing where we just don't even have to think about it anymore. We just live into it. Yeah. I think that's the thing that we're all aiming. Right. Terry - Feeding Fatty (03:00): Right. So can you tell us a little bit about your history, where you, how you got to where you are now and what's going on? Dai (03:09): Sure. Well, I mean, thank you for asking that. I think we all have a, I'm a big Marvel fan or a comic book fan, and I always like the origin stories. Right, right. You know, just keeping to the theme of your podcast. Uh, I w even though I'm someone that's been, I've actually worked, I've had a career in the wellness and health industries now for 26 years, 26 years, my entire adult life, I've worked in the fitness and the wellness spaces in various capacities obviously. And, uh, I love it. It's a, it's a big part of, of what I just love to do. I love to empower people with change and I didn't come to that naturally though. You know, like I think a lot of people, especially in the fitness space, uh, a lot of people tend to be athletes where people that have a very natural lifestyle, that's embraced athleticism, you know, like they'd just been active their entire life. Dai (03:59): And I love that. I think it's inspiring, but I am not that person. I came from the opposite end. And this is where I find another contingency within the wellness industry where it's people that have are not working in it because they themselves have already had this massive shift or transformation and awakening where really they just prioritize their health and made some changes. And I'm from that camp, uh, I was morbidly obese as a teenager. So from the age of nine to 14, well, listen, it wasn't rocket science. Uh, you know, that got me there. In fact, it was just really simple. Uh, I ate a lot of foods that were very poor and nutrition value yet rich in calories. And I did that frequently. Uh, and also I, I had a lifestyle that was, well, let's just put it this way. The majority of my time free time was spent watching movies or playing video games, you know, and compound that day in day out for a period of about five years. Dai (05:00): Well, yeah, I didn't grow up. I grew out and I, I can laugh about it now, but to be honest and fully transparent with you, you know, at that age, I was battling depression, a lot of anxiety, a lot of just self doubt and, uh, you know, a lot of the, and I hate to use the word cliche because today, you know, when we hear obesity or even the term morbid obesity, it is like regular in our vernacular now. Right. Can't help it look on the feeds. And we see these words coming up, you look at the world health organization talking about this global pandemic outside of COVID, but I mean, it's an issue before COVID was this issue of just the rise in people's weight and, and the increase of health complications as it was then, you know, back then childhood obesity, wasn't even something that you would put together. I was one of two kids in my class that was in that state of unhealth, you know, and, and so it was very alienating and, uh, and to be fair, you know, I think I alienated myself more than others were alienating me if you know what I mean. I wasn't good in social settings. That's where it started. So, sorry, go ahead. Roy - Feeding Fatty (06:15): No, no, I was just going to say, you know, that is, uh, it's such a tough age and I, I gotta hand it to you that you overcame it even, uh, because that, uh, unfortunately those, um, the ridicule, the self down, everything kids go through at that time period, sometimes it leads to even worse troubles as adults. So I think, uh, congratulations that, you know, you were able to work yourself out of that. That's amazing because I I'm the opposite. I was skinny as a kid, like to the skinny, to the point of my grandparents would be like, Oh my God, you've got to eat something. You know, we need you to eat because I was just very thin, but, you know, I beefed up through high school and athletics and then, uh, you know, put my weight on as an adult. So I, luckily I've never been chastised too much. So I can't even imagine what you must have gone through, you know, as, as a, that age group. Dai (07:09): Yeah. I mean, children are mean most of the time, but I was gonna say, teens can be cruel, you know, like it's, it's really, uh, and, and so, you know, I had a few friends, um, but even then, you know, if we were hanging out, it wasn't like we were playing, we were playing video games or watching movies or eating junk in the races. I had that, that body type, because I'd been doing that for so long. I have a body type that it is fairly easy for me to put on weight. It just, it is, I can, but I mean, it works to my advantage as well, because as soon as the flip switched, you know, uh, yeah, right. I flipped the switch happened and I made that shift. Right. I, it, it worked my advantage because, uh, when I, especially when I got into weight training and more resistance type training, I, I saw myself develop much more musculature, you know, so developing muscle mass, uh, but it also changed how I fueled myself, you know, so I started eating different foods and foods that were more in alignment with the lifestyle that I wanted, the way I want it to feel. Roy - Feeding Fatty (08:19): Was there a catalyst for that change that something happened? Did it, how did that, how did that come about? Dai (08:26): Well, you know, up, up until the day that the catalyst, you know, like there, there was that moment where, and I think we hear about this often, you know, when people really reach that point where there really is no other option, but to embrace change and really become very proactive in our own lives to facilitate the change. You know, we realize that we've got to do something different than we've been doing to get different results. Otherwise, you know, Einstein said it best, right. You're doing the same thing, expecting Speaker 4 (08:56): Different results. Uh, so leading up to that, you know, Dai (08:59): My parents were great. Uh, they were very, very supportive. Um, my I, my parents separated when I was nine, which is interesting, you know, at that time and years later, you know, putting it all together with some supportive of, of a counselor and psychologist, you know, I, I went through a period about 11 years ago where I just needed to start focusing inward, you know, really focusing on my own mental health and my own issues and, uh, dealing with the old trauma. And what I realized, you know, is I had a lot of unsettled stuff okay. From, from that period of my life. And a lot of that I carried forward in later years. So it would always come up and I won't get into that so much right now, unless there's time. But what, back in those days, you know, I, uh, my parents were very supportive from the standpoint. Dai (09:45): They saw that I was hurting, you know, and they saw that I was in pain. They saw that was unhappy. They just wanted to make their son feel better. And they wanted them to happy, you know, healthy and happy. So they would often come and try to encourage me or invite me to try things like, how about we get your, or, you know, it's, uh, I mean, we seek out a nutritionist, we try to eat a little bit differently or, you know, can we get your gym membership? Like just little asides, you know? And, and I know they were coming from a place of love, but I'll tell you when you're in that place of hurt and you're already have a lot of self doubt. And, you know, if I ever saw my reflection, I would instantly, you know, just become very angry. Yeah. You know, upset at myself. Dai (10:28): And so here they are coming to try to help me, but I took it as an attack. Yeah. You know, and, and this is why I like to bring this up, because I think a lot of us can relate to this. We feel this at times in life, where those that love us and care for us, they come to us wanting to support. They make suggestions and make recommendations. They offer it up and they take it as if they're saying we're not enough. Right. You know, we're not good enough. We need to change. And that's how I took it then. So, you know, I would push back. I would act out and, uh, I could be mean at times, you know, just really not happy. And so over these years, you know, they, they basically just let me be, you know, try to support me as best they could. Dai (11:12): And, uh, but I had to come to grips with myself, you know, that, Oh my goodness, if I'm not happy where I am, I'm going to have to take ownership of this and make some changes, but it didn't come to that by accident. You know, I remember being at my father's place one weekend and, uh, I used to have this hack, you know, if I, if I got in the shower, cause I really had, didn't like seeing my reflection. I mean, there's very few pictures of me, of that period in my life because I would avoid social settings. I would avoid cameras. I just, no, you don't know. I mean, I used to forge my mom's signature on notes. I didn't have to do for Zen class. Cause that meant I'd have to change in the changing with a bunch of other kids, no way I'm taking shirt off. Dai (11:54): And so my life was highly compromised that way. And uh, I got really good at it. And one of my hacks was I'd have to get in the shower, turn on the water, really, really hot, get it super steamy in there, stay in there and actually long time. So when I get out here will be covered in condensation, all fogged up. I wouldn't have to look at myself toweling off this morning. My dad was rushing me cause he didn't have to get my brother and I somewhere and we could have been going bowling. I don't even know what it was, but it was mid morning. And he's just, he's like I was going to, I'm going to have a shower saying, okay, well you got hurry and you know, he's knocking on the door and it's like, come on, we gotta go. And uh, so I rushed it that you remember coming out of the shower and um, talent off and I can see my profile in the mirror and I turn and I lock eyes and I'm filled with anger with hate discussed and uh, I just lose it and uncontrollable sobbing, you know? Dai (12:47): And uh, I felt overwhelmed with emotions, just like, how is this me? Right. You know, like you're looking at yourself, but it's like, you don't know yourself, recognize you don't recognize who you've become. Wow. Yeah. And it's as, I mean I'm 14 at this time. And there was like, Oh my gosh, my limited scope in life at that period in time, my limited perspective on life, it felt really hard. Right. You know, it was really hard just acknowledging that this is me. And, uh, I started having thoughts and it, you know, at periods of time throughout those years, I mean, I would entertain the idea of like life would probably just easier for wasn't living. You know, it wouldn't be easier. My parents would be easier on me, like not having to deal with all this, but it never really felt like a true option. Dai (13:31): So as much as I entertain the idea, I never acted on it. And uh, this, that morning, it was like, that's not really an option, even though it was still there. You know, that idea just to be so much easier because it wasn't easy way around, but I didn't want to do that to my parents. And I didn't want to do myself. I didn't want him to live. And uh, but I wanted to like living. Right. And uh, so I've found myself realizing I was at a fork in the road. You know, it was like, because you know, after 14 I had had five years and I was like, man, things weren't trending in a good direction. So I was aware enough to realize that, you know, for the next five years I keep doing what I'm doing. I don't think it's gonna be better than it is right now. Dai (14:10): In fact, I, I, I admit it will probably be worse. So that's to the right. Well, here's this path to the left. That is completely unknown to me. It's still scary because I don't know what to do or what to expect, but maybe if I do something that's a little bit differently, maybe I can change. Maybe I can get healthy because I want to be healthy. I want to be happy. I want to like who I am. So I came into that bathroom with this conviction, you know, eyes, all bloodshot from crying. And then I approached my dad after I got dressed and I'm like, I want to get healthy. Then I don't want to be this way. And he must've realized, you know, you got to strike the animal. It's Speaker 4 (14:49): Hot. Cause, cause Dai (14:52): He had the awareness and I'm so grateful for this. But you know, within a matter of days he took me to buy a mountain bike. I said, I want a bike. You know, I want a bike because that way I didn't have to be in a Republic to work out because that was not an option. I'm not going to a gym or any of that stuff, no way, but a bike I could manage, I could ride a bike. I used to like riding a bike as a kid. And so it was like, I couldn't get a bike and it took me to get a bike. And uh, that literally after that weekend I just started cycling every day I had, I borrowed my dad's am or, well, I guess it was an am FM. You remember the Sony wall in the yellow ones? Dai (15:29): I think many of us have had those, you know, I'm totally dating myself, but I, I, I borrowed it and it was great because it had the automatic flip on it. Right. We would always play one side and then flip the other side. So I had to, on one side I had one of my favorite Canadian bands, tragically hip. And then on the other side I had an Alison chains and I knew that I would just start writing when the hip stopped plan and it flipped over. And I started hearing Alison change time to turn around and go home. Speaker 5 (15:55): And Dai (15:55): So it wasn't a matter of a distance. I just did it based on the music. So it was, it was about an hour, you know, I'd be out cycling and, uh, and it was hard. I'll admit it, it was really hard because I was really ashamed. I mean, I'd gone up a flight of stairs. I had to be out of breath and get a little bit of a glow on because I'd start sweating and uh, you know, just everything was compounded, right. When you're unhealthy, when you're feeling, not fit. Right. Not healthy, not, well, it just makes the usual minor things in life feels so much more like major things in life, you know, like when more difficult, uh, that's definitely the place I was in. And so that was it. I just committed to that. And I went to the library and got books out on fitness nutrition, and my kids still laugh. They're like, why don't you just Google it then? And I'm like, I'm old, I'm older Speaker 5 (16:41): Page. Dai (16:43): Yeah. And it's funny. Right. And so I educated myself. Right. And I just trusted that, Hey, other people have done this and other people who've lost weight. My mom was a big fan of Richard Simmons and then was swept into the eighties. I remember her putting on the old VHS tapes and just giving her and, uh, I used to, and I feel bad, but it was, I used to make fun of her because I'd be like, well, you know, it's just so funny. Right. And, uh, but it was awesome because, you know, she was role modeling me that, you know, you could do something at home just basic and here's this guy, but he sent him to edit an inspiring story. And then he would always show the clips on his shows, right. Or the infomercials of the people that lost all this weight. And so it was like, people can lose weight, people can change. Dai (17:23): So why can't I? And so I just trusted the process and I was consistent and I want to take that away. You know, it's like I was consistent with how I fuel myself, nourish myself. I was also very consistent with how I moved my body. And I started to feel a difference, you know, feel a change within just a matter of a month. Things started to just get better. And, uh, I CA I maintain that for after 20 months. Uh, I realized, you know, without even really think that I, I just had this new lifestyle, but also I'd become quite fit and you can quite healthy. And a lot of the psychological and emotional benefits of that also started to manifest, you know, I had more confidence in myself. I all of a sudden started to hang out with certain people. And also one of the biggest extrinsic motivators for me was I just wanted a girlfriend. Dai (18:14): I'm being completely honest. I, I did. I wanted, like, I mean, the underlying thing was, I just wanted someone to want me. Right. Yeah. I mean, that really was it. And, uh, and so I had a girlfriend as well and mean, you know, so life just was like, wow, this is amazing. And, and, and just to close out on this, what was super interesting, and this is really what was my catalyst for, for committing to this path as a life, you know, not just the lifestyle, but this is what I do for life. You know, like for, for, not only my vocation, but it's just, I love doing it. I mean, if I didn't get paid to do it, I'd still do it. You know, because when I started, that's how it was, I wasn't getting paid. I was just doing it for fun and for free, because I just wanted to help people. Dai (18:54): But at 17 friends of my parents would come around the house, you know, and I often, I was just thinking to come and say hi to my mom, you know, or, or whatever. And they come in, they say, I don't know. And then they pulled me aside and be like, Hey Dan, can I ask you a few questions? And cause they'd seen this transformation, this change that I'd had. Right. And so they would come and pick my brain. They would ask about fitness, they'd ask about nutrition. They would say what they were doing, what they wanted to achieve. And I was like, you care what I have to say? Like, you're, you're asking, are you sure you want to ask me, you were asking me this. And that was a first time in my life, you know, 17 years of life where I felt like people actually cared about what I had to say, but I also felt I had value to offer. And it felt so good to help people. And, uh, and that's what got me excited about coaching and mentorship and just helping people with transformations and, you know, fast forward now, 44 years old, I'm still doing it, but that's sort of where it started, you know, Terry - Feeding Fatty (19:48): Incredible that you were able to, to, to act on that at that age. I mean, kudos to you, my goodness. What a, what a hard, hard road. Dai (20:00): Well, I want people to know it was not easy, but, but big changes rarely are easy. I mean, it's easy to get started and it's challenging to sustain it, but one thing for certain it's always worth it. Yeah. It's always worth it. You know? So it's like any challenge or obstacle we overcome when you look back on it. Yeah. When you're going through it, it's hard, right? Like you're, you're surrounded by it. You're engulfed in it. You, you can't see anything else, but the challenge and the obstacle, but as soon as you get through it on the other side and you turn around and look back and it's like, is that all it was, you know, it's amazing how our perspective changes so quickly, as soon as we get through that challenging bit. And, uh, and, uh, so I have to remind myself of that. And I have at number of periods of my life where other challenges popped up, it was a nice lesson to learn that early on life because I realize change is possible, you know? And I can be, Roy - Feeding Fatty (20:52): Yeah, I'll just say again, it goes along what we were talking about. Uh, you know, pre-show about the, um, that, that coin I have, that the obstacle is the way that sometimes, you know, and the other thing that's kind of important about that is that, uh, know there's a place here called the great sand dunes. And if you climb up to the top of the first one, you can see like, then there's another and another and another. And I think that's another important thing to remember, you know, in, in not only in wellness, but in life is that we never reached the top of the mountain. I mean, it's always, there's always another Hill and we always have to keep working and keep climbing. I think as long as we can resign ourselves to this fact that we're, we always need to grow reevaluate and, uh, you know, in order to make those positive changes. But another thing, what I was going to ask you about was on the nutrition side, you know, you talked about getting the bike and getting out there every day and exercising, but did you make some big, uh, nutritional changes as well? Dai (21:53): You know, the nutritional, well, I mean, they were big, but not insurmountable. I think there's a difference there, you know what I'm saying, big shift. It was because, you know, my mom and just to give you a little bit more context to how life was at that time, uh, you know, my parents separated and we'd see our dad every other weekend. He had a, a business that he was still building, you know, and, and, and he, he, he just had a wonderful work ethic as well. And, uh, and at that time, you know, I kind of resented his work schedule and the fact that he worked so much, um, but it was later on in life. I realized that I actually didn't hire at a ton. And, and I modeled a lot of his work ethic and my mom had a similar work ethic. And at that time, after my dad had left and got his own place, and my mum was looking after my brother and I, uh, full full-time, she's also working full time, as well as going back to school to get her master's and, and so her life. Dai (22:49): And then on top of that, she's trying to, to find a potential next mate, you know, next life partner. And so she was busy, you know, like really busy. And so my brother and I would tend to have a fair bit of time to ourselves, you know, especially as we got over the age of 10 and we'd have more autonomy. And, and it was just based on, uh, circumstances. And, uh, so my mum would often buy foods that were quick to produce quick to cook, you know, easy for my brother and I, and that that'd be like pizza pockets, a little, the little McCain, pizzas. I mean, Costco, uh, one of the things I used to eat a lot of was a, you know, those muffin trays at Costco, right? Those are not Moffitt's, I'm sorry. They're little cakes. Dai (23:38): Oh. And they were like 1500 calories. Like, I didn't understand what calories, but once I educated myself and understood how food works, like macronutrients, calories, just really foundational stuff. As it relates to nutrition, not super complicated stuff, like I'm not going to get into like the Krebs cycle and how creatine works and how our muscles produce lactic acid. And that all came later. I just wanted to understand the fundamentals. And as soon as I understood that, and I understood how to read labels, right. Everything started to change. And I started asking myself, okay, well, it's really hard to find foods without sugar. I was like, Holy smokes. Cause you know, sugar wasn't vilified back then, like it is now, right. I mean, back then it was really fat was vilified, right. That was during that whole time to remember during the eighties, and even during the nineties, they were like fads bad for you. Don't eat fat Speaker 4 (24:27): Heart attack. It's funny. Now what's one of the most Dai (24:30): Popular diets out there. The keto diet, we're just pretty much right. Speaker 4 (24:34): All fine, Dai (24:37): Which don't get me started. There's a whole nother conversation there, but, but with the basics, I just started eat more whole foods. I took an interest in actually starting to prepare meals for our family because my mom would come home. You don't want to be after six, by the time she got home, I have to work. And I'd already been home for a few hours. I had this new passion for getting healthy and I took it upon myself to take a lot of wrong ingredients and start making meals, you know, I didn't have a, a large breadth of meals, but I got really good at making a couple of studios. And Chili's, you know, especially, you know, Ontario in the winter, it's cold, you want warm food. So I got really good at making that kind of stuff and you know, less things out of boxes, more things that were whole food unprocessed. And that was really the gist of it. And I cut sugar out and started drinking lots of water. Like that's it, you know, that along with the fitness, you know, just moving my body every day with a little bit of purpose. And when I say with purpose, it's like, I'm moving my body to elicit a positive response, such as get a bit of a globe. You know, as my wife says, I don't sweat. I glisten, Speaker 4 (25:42): I sweat. Okay. I sweat a lot and I love it. And, uh, Dai (25:49): So that's what I would look for. Just sweat a little bit every day and, and watch what I eat. Good things are gonna happen. And to be honest though, at the start, it was really a big, big, big change, right? So you get the headaches, you get the, you know, there's a little lethargy, like there's your, body's like rebelling because five years of doing the thing a certain way and trying to change it overnight, obviously there's pushback. And just physically, especially, you know, also psychologically and emotionally, I mean, there's lots of stuff happening, but I trusted that it would get better. And the thing that really helped me shift, like go from, okay, this is a good idea. I think it might work. This may work. It might, it might work to the point where it's like, this is working and I'm doing this and I love it and I'm going to keep doing it. And that was about three and a half weeks in. Speaker 4 (26:36): You reminded Dai (26:36): Me of this. When you, you mentioned the dunes because this was concession street, uh, road, I would, which is sort of, it was the border of our town, right. There's always those little roads that are sort of at the very outskirt and it's sort of that barrier that everybody would refer to. And, and I live just off of it. So I I'd cycle up it in, and there was this Hill and I say it Hill because that's really what it is. But to me at that time, it was Everest. Okay. It was a big Hill and here I am, this obese kid on his bike riding up to this Hill and I'm like, Oh my God. I said, big Hill. You know, I don't know if I can do this. And, and I just remember trying and get into about a third of the way up. Dai (27:14): And it was just like, I'm not moving like floating right now. And all of a sudden, and inside, I was like, Oh, I should just turn angled, go back. I mean, I obviously can't do this. You know? Um, I just failed that very first till I came to you, can't do this. Like, what am I thinking? But then, you know, I'm getting off the bike. I know what's at the top of the Hill. I know it flattens out and I know where it goes. So I just walked my gut and I did. And then I got back to cycling again, you know, listening to my, my tape and just going about my day and every day I'd come back to that Hill. It was about three and a half weeks in. I ascended the top without getting off the bike to the top, you know, and three and a half weeks. Dai (27:58): And, and when I got to the top of that Hill, my mountain, you know, it was like, Oh my gosh, I did that. I did that. And because you know, the number on the scale, wasn't changing a lot, my belt size, wasn't changing a lot, like certain metrics numbers, like, you know, how the fitness industry works and that's, I got a love, hate relationship with it because we're so quick to quantify things, right. How much should we, you know, what's your dress size? How fast can you run a mile? How many pushups can you do? Like w w we quantify things so quickly, and I want to qualify things I want to look at, how do things actually affect our life? You know, the emotional connection to the things of why we do what we do, especially when it comes to lifestyle change. And so when I got to the top of that mountain, that Hill, I was like, I did this. Dai (28:47): And my belief in myself was like, highest it's ever, ever been. And at that moment, I knew like this is happening. This is working because I'm doing it, you know? And, uh, that was it. That was my turning point. I, in Canada, we have a network called TSM, which is these sports network. You know, it's like the ESPN in the States. And, uh, we have a TSN turning point. This is always the highlights where they showed the games. And in those show where, you know, it's that moment in a game where things just switch and you know, that the team that's losing all of a sudden, Whoa, they make a play, they score. And now the energy shifts and they ended up winning. Right. And I called that moment in my life at TSN turning point. That was it. So, so yeah, that's, that's sort of in a nutshell, you know, Roy - Feeding Fatty (29:31): Well, that's a couple of cool things, but number one is you, you unknowingly at the time, but you had a measure. So you, you know, you started the Hill third of the way, but you were able to work your way up, which kind of brings up a couple, uh, a couple math equations to think about. And one of the biggest for me was thinking about, okay, how fast does it take to eat a calorie, versus how quick does it take you to burn one off? And this is, you know, cause a lot of people like I'm gonna, I'm gonna continue to, um, I'm gonna continue eating this way, but I'm going to go out and walk or jog or do this or do that, but not make a nutritional change. And then they, they like, well, I can't make it. It's not nothing's happening for me. Roy - Feeding Fatty (30:19): And so I know the, the numbers that I've gotten is like 3,500 calories equals a pound. So basically if everything is an equilibrium and you're where you need to be, you're eating your 2000 calories and life is good. You're holding. If you eat 3,500 extra calories that week, you will gain one pound in, you know, somewhere in there. I'm sure it's approximate. But so if you think about how much like me, I think about my little package of m&ms and a package of chips, I don't even know what they are. Probably, you know, five, six, 700 extra calories right there that it took me about five minutes to consume. And then last night I walked 45 minutes on a treadmill, pretty decent pace, a little bit of incline. You know, I was like a hundred and I didn't put my weight in. So it was probably judging me off of a little slider built person. But anyway, I burned, you know, about 145 calories. So if we just stop and think for a minute, it's M you know, sometimes it's input and output. It's like, what are we putting in our mouth? And how are we burning that off through the day? It's a huge awakening or can be, it was for me anyway. Dai (31:39): Yeah. Well, that's, I mean, I think you're spot on with that realization because it's true, right? Like, it doesn't take much to, especially when we're looking at certain types of foods and there's a lot of content out in the world now that talks about not all calories are equal. Right. You know, and yes and no, uh, there's truth to that. And it's true. Like, you eat a calorie of sugar, you need a calorie of, of spinach, your body treats it very differently, very directly to get that calories. Spinach might be a cup of spinach in volume where we're talking about less than the Cuba sugar. Right? Exactly. It's very different. And also that composition in spinach, it's mainly fiber. Right. And we already know fiber doesn't get processed by your body. So, and this is the neat thing about the keto diet, right? Like they talk about different types of carbohydrates and you know, there's some that are basically net zero, you know, you could eat the calories, but you actually end up, it's like eating celery, right? Dai (32:43): Yeah. You burn more calories than what the calories are provided in celery, because mainly just water and fiber, your body doesn't process it, but we need fiber too. And, uh, but so that's a great realization though, because when you start putting in that perspective, it's like, okay, well I could have this, but that could be 300 burpees. I always tell people, you should do it in your car. If you'd make it. Burberry's he's not walking. You really look at it different. Cause I used to do that with some of my clients and I'll be like, it's okay. Treat every burpee, like one calorie. So you want an extra a hundred calories today. It's okay. Do it. But you got to do an extra, a hundred burpees when you work out and be like, okay, it ain't worth that. Roy - Feeding Fatty (33:24): There's a, there's another, another concept in finance, it's compounding, you know, which is kind of the Genesis for, you know, a lot of the financial calculations and how, you know, again, that was a huge awakening for me. Uh, you know, as a young person to figure all that out. But, uh, there's a good book called the slight edge and I think everybody should read it. And it basically it's this compounding factor is that had you gone out and re written your bike one day and threw it in the garage, you would never gotten up to the top of the Hill, or if you had to read it one day and then six months later taking it back out. And so it's that compounding effect of riding that bike every day or eating the right combination. And, you know, we always say, we're not doctors, please seek medical attention, you know, to get your diet straightened out, get a dietician, whatever you need to do. Roy - Feeding Fatty (34:23): But let's just say, you know, if you eat right multiple days in a row, the compounding effect is unbelievable versus, you know, like I go through those spells, like, Ooh, I'm really eating right today and I'm going to the gym. And then tomorrow is like, what's that pizza guys deliver? You know, what's that pizza number again, or we can call up. So I think that, you know, that consistency factor that you talked about compounding, however you want to talk about it. It's important. It's important in a lot of aspects of life, but also when we're talking about getting healthy. Dai (34:58): Yes. So about, you know, one of my favorite books complementary to that book is the compound effect. And that was one that really opened my eyes, Slack, the whole concept, right? Like as much as we all love compound interest compounding the negative in our life, not so good. Right. Roy - Feeding Fatty (35:19): Not looking at it that way too is, uh, you know, like last night, if I'm in the gym walking for 45 minutes, I'm not at home sitting on the couch eating for 45 minutes. So it's like a double, it's a double good too it's as well, but it's really smart. The other thing is motivation me. Uh, you know, we were talking, me and Terry were talking a little bit last night or this morning, like I have had a few days out of the gym, got back in it, you know? And I, it just, it lifts me so much in so many ways. I feel better physically, mentally. I mean, today I've been like so alert and, uh, you know, a lot of good creative thoughts, but it's not the part is the problem is not the gym. It's the distance between, you know, my chair at my desk and, and the gym front door, if I can ever, if I can conquer that distance. Um, yeah, I'm awesome. But it's, I just have to be honest and say, you know, I have trouble conquering that. Dai (36:23): Hmm. You're not alone at all. You know, I think we can all relate very much to what you just shared. And I often will say, you know, motivation's great, but it's, we're often looking for things outside of us to motivate us, to move where I like to kind of flip it a little bit and say, well, what would inspire you to move? You know, what would be that internal connection that would just get you fired up every time? So you go from like, I really need to go to the gym or I have to go to the gym today to, you know, what I get to go to the gym today. It was bring an awesome, you know, it now it's not easy if it was, I just give you like, Oh yeah, here's the formula, you know, that checks in the mail, you know? Dai (37:12): Uh, but it's, it's not so simple cause it's, it is a little bit of reflecting, but also taking some time to actually ask ourselves, well, what is the life I want to be living five years from now, 10 years from now, how about 20 years from now? You know, what is that lifestyle? What are the things I want to be able to do and do without thinking about it? Yeah. And often in some of the most basic things, like I remember a few years back, my mom going on a bus trip with my, or sorry, a bus tour in Scotland with my stepdad, you know? And, uh, my mom is battled with her weight, most of her life. And so, and she's also, now that's my arthritis in her knees and that's from a past car accident. So, you know, there's not much we can do with that. Dai (38:02): So there is certain things, but, you know, adding the extra weight on top of the arthritic knees or ankle, it compounds things in a very unhelpful way. And, but I remember thinking when she was talking about it, like there was a lot of times where they would get off the bus at various places and she'd have to be required to walk, but she wouldn't be able to. Yeah. And, and it is such a basic thing that we take for granted is just her ability to be mobile right now to move to care for ourselves. And so it's being that honest with oneself and recognizing, okay, well, this is how much I've changed in the last 10 years. You know, if you look back 10 years ago, where were you at health wise then? And where are you now? And now it's like forward setting. And he was like, okay, well on the 10, 20 years of the habits and the lifestyle that I'm living now, do I envision myself being able to continue to live the quality of life that I want to. Yeah. Roy - Feeding Fatty (38:56): Yeah. And I think that that's Dai (38:58): Always worked well for me, you know, I was getting very clear on that. Roy - Feeding Fatty (39:01): Yeah. And I think the compounding factor is something that I think about with that as well, is that, you know, getting to my age, it's like the, you know, poor behaviors going forward are going to be compounded to the point of, like you said, just, you know, is it shorten your life? Is it, uh, make you less mobile where you just can't enjoy it? And you know, like, uh, uh, do you have type two diabetes? So I'm always trying to keep that under control. And I was reading, um, some, um, you know, the top 10 causes of death came across the internet the other day. So diabetes is like number seven, but then, um, you know, like number nine is renal failure. And then, you know, the footnote that this is mostly caused by, uh, diabetes. So, you know, it's like, it's, uh, it, it basically ranks number seven and number on number nine on the top 10. Roy - Feeding Fatty (39:57): So, you know, these are important things because, uh, not only can they kill you, shorten your life, but I think that they can debilitate you into, uh, to a place that nobody really wants to go live. So, so many, so many important factors, especially the older we get, we just, and you know, it would have been awesome. Had I been thinking about this more 10, 20 years ago, but you know, we are where we are. So now I have to think about, um, I have to redouble that effort because I, you know, I want to, I don't want my, uh, I don't want my lifespan to outlive my health span. Dai (40:37): Yes. Right. Yeah. And very well said, you know, and I agree. I mean, I think it really comes down to just wanting to over simplify it, please. Like those that are listening. I know it's not always easy, but it'll always be worth it. I know that for a fact, after being through periods of unhealth in my own life, numerous times, and sometimes because of my own volition, sometimes not, you know, I was just, I mean, I was diagnosed with an autoimmune, like a chronic auto immune disease, a number, but eight years ago, and that rocked my world, you know, it did cause leading up to that, I mean, when they're doing all those tests and the bone marrow biopsies, I mean, they thought I had leukemia, you know, there's a lot of fear there. And I was like, how did that happen? How did that happen? Dai (41:28): And, and, you know, it came back eventually that was not immune diseases. It's still pretty serious. But fortunately for me, based on lifestyle choices, I can mitigate a lot of the sentence. I can lead a life that's very high in quality, you know? And I, I'm very optimistic that I'm going to get the quantity too, you know, in the years and, and the experiences, but I've definitely had to, to shift some of my lifestyle habits based on that appearing in my life. So sort of what you're sharing about type two diabetes, you know, when we have these, these health, everyone call them issues, but they're, there, there really are just these moments, right. Where we're presented with health challenges. And sometimes they come based on lifestyle choices and sometimes they just happen. Right. Yeah. We don't absolutely know what was the trigger. Like I like to think, man, I was living in a pretty healthy, active life. I eat really well, you know, like I manage stress. Okay. At least even not as well as I could have 10 years ago, but much better now. And, you know, so I, I'm very aware and I think it's that mindfulness that, that awareness that we have of just repercussions of some of our actions being present. Yeah. Knowing, knowing what's going on right at the moment. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we all are aware aren't we like did to some level we're aware of what we're doing, but yeah. It's really tough. Roy - Feeding Fatty (43:00): A good point about, you know, about getting sick. And, um, I think about like athletes is that, you know, you see these guys on the, uh, only American football field. Let's take those guys. You know, they get hit hard, a lot of fallen. Now, if I was out there and somebody hit me that hard or fell down, you know, that'd be the end of me, but because they're in such awesome shape, they are able to take a lot of that punishment. And so I think we can translate that to, into, uh, to our bodies. Our health is that if we have a healthy body, if we're eating right and we're doing everything we need to do, where we are able to fight some things off better, um, than if we were unhealthy. And then we were able to survive through some of those things that we really don't have a choice, you know, that may, uh, afflict us in some way, but we are much able to navigate through that if we are healthy and in good shape. So just something else. I think we, you know, always good to keep in mind. Dai (44:04): It's so true. And actually that reminded me, you know, the doctors, I remember my hematologist, especially like she figures I've had this probably most of my life. Um, it's just because of my lifestyle choices and the way I just live my life. It really masked any of the symptoms from ever appearing, you know, and even if they were there, but I started putting things two and two together because I would get sick or I would get a cut or a bruise and it would take a long time to heal, you know? And like, I get like the flu and I'd be out for almost two weeks sometimes. And it was just like, why don't I just take off? And when I do, Oh my do I get sick? And my wife used to bug me all the time. Right. Because before we knew about the condition and she'd be like, get in the bed, man, like just a man called [inaudible]. Dai (44:58): But no, when she went and then, you know, it was funny after the diagnosis came down and she's like, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize that this was going on. And, and, uh, but it was interesting, right? Like, I mean, being someone that also was in the fitness equipment industry for 17 years, uh, I used to deal with a lot of people that would come in to buy equipment for their homes or for their facilities, but specifically in the homes. And very often you get people coming in and be like, Oh, what brings you into today? You know, you look for some strengths and cardio what's up. And uh, well, my doctor sent me it's you could tell they didn't want to be there, not there because the doctor said, you got to go do this. You're going to die. Right. And they come in, they buy the equipment, they have the best of intentions to use it. And then they go, yup. I mean, this is the cliche, right. We go on like the Craigslist, the marketplaces, and look into equipment. And it's like, you're lucky if you find a picture of just the product without clothes on it. Right. Roy - Feeding Fatty (46:00): Yeah. I mean, I've had a few of those. Yeah. I've seen those background pictures of the, you know, take a Christmas picture. And then in the background, you see the, a treadmill with all the laundry hanging on the side of it. Yeah. Dai (46:12): Yes. And I used to hate that about the industry, you know, that, that, that cliche was even existing, you know, that we would, people joke about it. They come in and are like, Oh, I'm going to buy this, but I'll probably just end up as a coat hanger. I'm like, what are you talking about? You just told me that your doctor said you're going to die. Like what is going on here? And it just makes me wonder, you know, like that was something that used to really eat at me, you know? Cause I want to help people. I want them to feel empowered that they can make the changes that they want to make. And so it used to frustrate me. It made me feel sad and, and make me question a lot of time, what am I doing? You know? Cause I didn't feel I could really support them in the change. Dai (46:58): Right. Some new equipment. And then, you know, you do some follow ups here and there to see other doing, but often they wouldn't never reply because they feel guilty to reply because they did admit that they weren't using it. So it wasn't, it was rarely a pleasant followup where I'd get a message. Oh, we're loving it. It's great. Yeah. I've lost 20 pounds every once in a while we get that. But it wasn't the average, it wasn't the majority. Right. You know? And, and uh, so that led, that was also fueling me for making some big changes. Just my career, because I was like, I just didn't feel like I was really making a dent. Terry - Feeding Fatty (47:35): Yeah. That's what I was going to ask was how do you Tran how'd you transition out of selling the equipment to what you're doing now? Dai (47:46): Well, for me it was this, I wanted to help people by just giving them information, just really providing info and, and you know, people take it or leave it. It didn't matter to me. I just wanted to share. And it was fortunately for me, like when I started blogging about 13, 14 years ago, like I just started putting content up and I was sort of inspired because I had read Gary Vaynerchuks first printing of crush it. Do you guys remember crushing it? I didn't read that. Or if this is like back when he still had like wine library, right? Like his old YouTube channel and before Gary Vaynerchuk was, you know, dominated the internet. And uh, but I remember reading that because I used to do a lot of marketing for my past company. And, uh, I'd be responsible with helping with some of the purchases of our media buys and we're buying TV. Dai (48:34): We were buying print Brian radio and you know, we'd spend the same amount of money every year. And I was like, man, we're not getting the same return here. We'd be scratching around what is going on here. And it's like, wow, this thing called the internet and the Google. Maybe it's a good thing. We take a look at that. And, and, and so we did, and then I read Gary Vaynerchuks book and I was like, wow, this guy's onto something. This makes so much sense. So I started really embracing social media and I started blogging just to create content, to share it with people because I thought that would compliment what I was doing on the fitness equipment side. Yeah. You know, it was like, here's a, but I also got some great articles. I got some programs, I got some free information that will support you with this equipment that you're buying. Dai (49:13): And so that was started the intention behind it. But then I realized, you know, not everybody has access to equipment. Not everybody has the means to have equipment in their home. And so I started to just change some of my belief systems around, you know, I used to be a gym rat, you know, I had one in the gym. That was my main thing. I'd go to the gym. I work out and I was like, well, that's what everybody should do. You know, again, this is in my twenties, right. Approaching my thirties. I was still in that mindset. Like, this is the solution, this is the best option. And for everybody, they need this. And as they say, I drank the Kool-Aid and I drank a lot of it and I was trying to serve it to anybody that was thirsty. Right. And, uh, and so I started just talking about the body as a piece of equipment calisthenics, right. Dai (49:58): They just body weight based moons, because then there really is no excuse. I mean, you got enough room to put a towel on the floor. You will get amazing workout and that space, like you can get a park outside your door. That's a gym, you know, there's really no excuse you, you, you travel, you, you hang out in a hotel every once in a while because you're traveling lot. No problem. That room, you can do this between the two beds, you know, like, and I started creating a lot of content that really supported that for people. And, uh, w which created a major riff, uh, in my, uh, company, because, you know, I had a lot of staff at that time. I also had a partner that was the CEO and, uh, my personal brand started to, to grow the business. And, uh, he's like dying. Dai (50:50): I remember one of my articles went viral on Reddit and crashed my site a couple of times. Cause I wasn't prepared for that kind of a spike. And, uh, and it was like 99 workouts you can do without equipment got shared all over the place. And uh, I remember all the staff as well as like my partner at the time, he was like, you gotta put us out of business. What are you doing? You are a mean, yeah, we, we were one of the top fitness equipment retailers in North America, you know, and here we are, the main guy, he was like, I was just the face of the company. So I'd often do the media stuff and all that. And uh, there him saying you don't need equipment. But the funny thing was, it actually increases it increased sales because it increased our brand recognition, also increase trust in our marketplace. Dai (51:40): People realized I was more motivated to help people just get well than I was to sell money. Right. And, uh, so that sort of fed into my desire to eventually leave. Cause I was just like, you know, this, this isn't a fit anymore. And not feeling like I'm making a big enough shift in people's lives here. And, uh, you know, as operator opportunities started to grow based on some of the things I was doing outside of work realized we had the options. But more than that, my wife had a desire for us to be a full-time family to travel while the kids still thought we were cool. Dai (52:14): And you know, that Terry door closes pretty quick. Yeah. And, uh, so yeah, I, I left a career 17 years and sorta just embraced a little bit of the unknown and I trusted that we'll figure it out. And, uh, I had written a book at the same time, as I was saying, sign an art to that career. And, and so at the same time it was published me. I quit my job. My wife quit her as a month later, a couple months after that, we took the kids out of school and gave away all our stuff, packed up what we decided to keep in her SUV and just started traveling and started chasing the sun. We drove down to like California and all around the States and back up to Canada in the summer drive around there and back to the States and then eventually made our ways overseas. And then we ended up in Bali and we lived there for over two years coming back to Vancouver. And, uh, uh, just, just before COVID, uh, we came back because our kids wanted to finish high school here in Vancouver. How exciting. So the last six years have been a bit of a ride. I'll tell you that, you know, Roy - Feeding Fatty (53:11): Well, we thank you so much for taking time out of your day. You know, one question I always like to ask is, so do you have a tool? I mean, it could be an app program or ritual habit, uh, you know, whatever that you feel really adds value to your wellness journey and that, um, you just couldn't live without every day. Dai (53:34): Oh, well, there's a couple habits. I know I've been really, really powerful just in my life. Um, a couple of which is just moving my body everyday with purpose for a minimum of 15 minutes, right? Like just a minimum, just 15 minutes. I mean, it's not very much tiny, right? Everyone's got at least 15 minutes that they can just dedicate to just moving their body. Right. And, uh, and hopefully creating a little bit of a sway. So you get a little bit of a positive effect. Uh, also meditation. And I encourage people minimum five minutes a day, and also feeding our mind now minimum 10 minutes a day, feed your mind with something positive. Maybe it's a Ted talk. Maybe it's a great podcast, right. Maybe it's just reading a great book or listening to a book like, and if you put those three things together, that's 30 minutes. Dai (54:26): That's 2% of every 24 hours. Wow. And that's it. I mean, that's the minimum. I encourage people, I guess people will say, is that all I got to do? I go, it's the least you deserve. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's the least anybody just like, you deserve to love yourself enough to give yourself at least 30 minutes a day, right. For your body, your mind and your spirit. And then I say, and I say, if you start to see some, some good things happening and you want to do more things lean into that, don't fight that don't think I'm only going to do three, like lean into it, do what you feel inspired or drawn to do, because all it takes is a little bit of the positive momentum to start to kick in. And it's amazing how that can just pick up speed and it'll open your eyes to a lot of things. And, uh, uh, I do have a five day sugar detox. It's just a free program on my website as well as a 28 day program. That's also free it models. My book gives people, the workouts gives them the full program. No hidden agenda here. It's just, I just keep giving all that stuff back. Dai (55:29): Make sure we get that out there. No, let me just do this real quick. [inaudible] but uh, I give it away for free my publisher. Doesn't like, there's been a giveaway, the digital copy for free, uh, in the program basically for free on my website. So Hey, if you want to buy it on Amazon or, you know, at Barnes and noble or whatever, Hey, feel free to plug, but, uh, it is free on the website. So why don't you tell us, tell us Roy - Feeding Fatty (55:58): Website so people can go over there and we'll be sure and include all that in the show notes, but tell people how they can find you. And if they want to reach out and get ahold of you, how is the best way to do that? Dai (56:09): Oh, thanks. Right. Yeah. It's pretty simple. Actually. It's the one advantage, you know, as you were asking me, Terry at the beginning, you know, before we started this interview, my name is pretty unique. Uh, Dai Manuel Dai, and then Manuel, I mean, U E L a, it's a sh slash Portuguese name. So a bit of a mix, as I said, everybody I'm Canadian, but if you go to diamond, weil.com, you'll find all sorts of stuff. And, uh, I, I do say like for those that are listening to this, if it's spring 2021, you will be seeing a new website very soon, which is a lot more user friendly. Uh, but there's over 1500 articles and resources out there that are all accessible. They're geared to help people get more of the life and help them get out of their own way to really lean into being their happiest, healthiest self. Dai (56:55): And, uh, so I always invite people just, Hey, have at it. And if you want to have a conversation, reach out to me on Facebook or Instagram, cause that's the easiest way and I'm most active on those channels, but, uh, that's it, you know, like I just want to acknowledge you too though. I think is, is, uh, one very brave to, to just be vulnerable and share your journey, uh, as it relates to living healthier, more active and making these changes. And I think it's, it's very inspiring as well to, to see you sharing your story, but also highlighting other people's journeys there, their tips or tricks or strategies. And I just think it's really, really cool. And, uh, I also, I do like the name so fantastic. So I just wanted to acknowledge you too. It's been an honor to be here too. Roy - Feeding Fatty (57:38): Well, thanks so much. We appreciate it. And it's, you know, we get, we get to meet a lot of great people like yourself and we get to, you know, bless our listeners with, uh, you know, not only your personal story, but your profession as well. So thank you so much for, uh, sharing with us. We appreciate it. Yeah. Terry - Feeding Fatty (57:55): Yeah. You've been very inspiring. It's been an honor to listen to your story and I'm so glad that you were able to share that with us today. Dai (58:04): Thank you, Terry. And thank you, Ryan. It's very kind of you to say again, it's a, it's a bit of a love Fest happening, right? [inaudible] you guys are awesome though. And I really appreciate, I mean, of course, if I can be of any help, please know that I'm always here and that goes for anybody out there. And uh, I, I take that offer not lightly. It's very serious. And I would say like, I'm, I'm just here to help. So reach out anytime. Terry - Feeding Fatty (58:27): And it's more of that on your website. I recommend to everybody go and check them out. It's it's well worth it. Yeah. Roy - Feeding Fatty (58:37): All right guys. Well, that's going to do it for us on this episode. Again, we appreciate our listeners as well. Uh, you can find us of course, at www dot feeding, fatty.com. Uh, we will have the, um, the audio component and the video component up there as well. We are on all the major platforms, Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, and a lot more out there. Of course, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, always there, and we'll have the copy of the video will be up on YouTube as well. So go out there, take a look, take a listen. If you have a good story over your own, don't hesitate to reach out to either myself or Terry. We'd love to hear from you and hopefully we can get you on the show soon. So until next time that's going to be it for us. Thanks so much. Terry - Feeding Fatty (59:27): Thank you. Appreciate it. www.feedingfatty.com          

Rach McBride (they/them) is a professional Ironman triathlete and three-time Ironman 70.3 Champion, with numerous podium and course record results. Known as the “Purple Tiger,” Rach is known for racing and training with grit and resilience: having run half Ironmans on broken feet, raced an Ironman with food poisoning to qualify for the World Championships in Kona, and is an undefeated beer mile champion.  Deemed "the most interesting [person] in triathlon" by TRS Radio, Rach is also the first professional triathlete to be out as gender non-binary. It's not surprising that Rach was recently diagnosed with ADD: They hold two graduate degrees in genetics and are an accomplished cellist, having toured the US and performed in Europe with various bands. Rach loves being a minimalist, continues to hone their fire spinning skills, and currently works in sexual health education and advocacy in beautiful Vancouver, Canada. Enjoy!   ***CORONA VIRUS EDITION***   In this episode Peter & Rach discuss: 1:30-  Intro and welcome Rach McBride  Ref peter’s video about training for an Ironman  4:05-  So why triathlon? What got you into it to begin with? Let's start there.  5:40-  When were you diagnosed with ADD? How much of a part did ADD play in your decisions to compete? 7:55-  On self-medication, switching addictions and the benefits of Sport & hyperfocus 9:14-  Is Competitive Sport a trait of people with ADD, ADHD or otherwise neurodiverse? 10:29-  Tell me about how you approach training/your daily routine/motivations, etc? 11:30-  On staying disciplined/not letting yourself talk yourself out of what’s next on deck 13:35-  Why doesn’t working out feel like forced or grueling ‘work’? 16:40-  About COVID and readjusting our weekly routines. How have you been surviving? 18:30-  How did the race in, and at Daytona International Speedway go for you last year? 20:14-  More about Challenge Daytona and how the loop works with the psyche 22:10-  The ‘tricks’ of competing in triathlons  23:20-  What’s the one piece of advice you have for when people say: I can’t exercise, I just can’t!? 24:30-  LIGHTENING ROUND!   What’s your fav piece of tech you just can’t do without? What’s your resting heart rate? If you had to live in ONE place for 6 months, with only 3 items, what would they be? 26:07-  Peter’s story about his first Ironman experience.  [You can get in touch with Rach McBride via https://www.rachelmcbride.com] 27:55-  Thank you Rach! And thank YOU for subscribing, reviewing and listening. Your reviews are working! Even if you’ve reviewed us before, would you please write even a short one for this episode? Each review that you post helps to ensure that word will continue to spread, and that we will all be able to reach & help more people! You can always reach me via peter@shankman.com or @petershankman on all of the socials. You can also find us at @FasterThanNormal on all of the socials. 28:45-  Faster Than Normal Podcast info & credits STAY HEALTHY - STAY SAFE - PLEASE WEAR YOUR MASK.. until next time! As always, leave us a comment below and please drop us a review on iTunes and of course, subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already! As you know, the more reviews we get, the more people we can reach. Help us to show the world that ADHD is a gift, not a curse! Do you know of anyone you think should be on the FTN podcast? Shoot us a note, we’d love to hear! PS: If you're looking for that special gift this holiday season for someone in your life who has ADD, ADHD, or any kind of neurodiverse brain, how about a conversation with me? I've finally been convinced to join Cameo, where you can request videos, shout-outs, birthday greetings, even a one-on-one talk about how ADHD is a superpower! You can find me on Cameo here!​   TRANSCRIPT:  Hello everyone. My name is Peter Shankman. You are listening to Faster Than Normal. We believe that ADHD is a gift, not a curse and that all forms of neurodiversity are valid. We're glad you're here.  Oh, You are listening to Faster Than Normal. How do I know this? Cause I am currently doing the interview. My name is Peter Shankman. I am thrilled that you are here. It is a gorgeous, it's just become a gorgeous day. We had a massive snow storm here about three hours ago. Now it is gorgeous. It ran all night. There's tons of, well, now it's all brown snow on the ground. This is New York city, but it is now the sun is out. The clouds are fading away. It is a, if you, if it wasn't 12 degrees out, you think it was just a beautiful day to go for a run. It probably means that I will not be doing that. So instead, I'll be doing an interview. Today’s interview is with Rachel McBride. We got a professional Ironman triathlete, and three time Ironman, 70.3 champion on the podcast and I’ll give you a hint, it's not me. It's Rach.. because when I do. My Ironman. I occasionally finished. I occasionally wind up in an ambulance. It really depends on the day, but the person we have right now is professional Ironman triathlete. I'm very excited about that.  Known as the purple tiger, Rach is known for racing and training with grit and resilience. Having run half Ironman on broken feet, racing iron man with food poisoning to qualify for the world champions in Kona and races, an undefeated beer mile champion. I want to hear all about that. Rach is deemed the most interesting person in triathlon by TRS radio. Rach is also the first special triathlete to be out as gender non binary. That means that we do not call Rachel, we call each by the pronouns that Rachel prefers, which in this case is that I'm going to try really hard to say they, and I apologize in advance if I, if I subconsciously go back to she, but I'm going to work really, really hard on that. Um, I have a couple of friends who are non-binary and it's something I'm constantly trying to get better at not surprising that Rachel was recently diagnosed with ADD. Two graduate degrees in genetics and an accomplished cellist. Very interesting. Having toured the U S before in Europe with various bands, Rachel has being a minimalist nice continues to hone their fire spinning of course, you're a fire spinner. Why not? And currently works in sexual health education advocacy in beautiful Vancouver, Canada, Rachel, welcome to Faster Than Normal. What an awesome bio!  Oh, thanks, I am super excited to be on your podcast. I'm a big fan. I, I, you know, I'm a huge, the more I learn about your, the more my God, three times 70.3 champion, we're talking about that you, you were deemed the most interesting person in triathlon by TRS radio, and we have something in common. I was deemed one of the funniest people in triathlon by traffic magazine. So Hey. You might not know a little secret. I made the video that I have no doubt that you saw about 10 years ago after my first iron man, 10 years ago, this past October, I made a video called I'm training for an Ironman where these two guys or a guy and a girl talking to each other and the girl goes, Do you wanna go get some dinner? And the guy says I can't. I have to go to bed at 6:00 PM. And she goes, what the hell is wrong with you? He goes, I'm training for an iron man. And it wound up getting picked up Lance Armstrong before we knew he was made of chemicals, tweeted it and it blew up and has several million views. And if you've been in racing triathlons, as long as you have, I'm sure you've seen it.  So can't believe that I'm talking to the person who created that video!  It was based on an actual conversation with an ex-girlfriend who would help, who helped me. I trained for Kona while we were dating. And is that not going to Cozumel while we're dating and as soon as the, um, as soon as the, uh, triathlon ended, you know, we broke up and then that was, that was, uh, uh, a combination of all the conversations we had.  So, yes. So I love it.  So why triathlon? What got you into it to begin with? Let's start there.  Well, so I, um, basically spent most of my adult hood, uh, not as an athlete at all. Um, and I was actually doing my, I had really changed my life a whole lot gone from like being really involved in the Toronto music scene, uh, to doing my first masters in Ottawa, Canada, where it is freezing cold in the winters. Yeah. Um, and I was really hating life and not super happy with what I was doing and where I was. And so I decided to run a marathon and I trained for a marathon. I qualified for Boston. Um, I had done a little, yeah, I had run until I was 15. I had done like back in cross country. Um, and uh, after running Boston, I, a mentor of mine was like, Hey, I think you could be an elite triathlete. And I was like, well, I mean, this person knew me as an athlete, as a runner, but, you know, I, and I swam when I was a kid. So I had a little bit of that and I had been a bike commuter all my life. So first of all, for some reason I took that idea of being an elite triathlete. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to do it. And so I started training really hard. I did my first triathlon, uh, 13 years ago and almost won it and just like it just took over the state, took, took over my life. I just, I couldn't, you know, the smile I had on my face when I came out of the swim and got onto my bike, I was like, Oh my goodness, I'm doing this. I'm loving it. Hm. What do you, so, so when were you diagnosed today? Um, I was diagnosed with add earlier this year. Wow. So it's brand new to you. How much of, how much of a part do you think A DD played in. You deciding? Yeah, let's just run a marathon. Oh, here we qualified for Boston. Let's run that. Or, Hey, let's do a trip, you know? Do you think that when you said you were very unhappy, right? You said he used to run as a kid and then you stopped. Do you think that the running helped you up until you're like 15 and 16 and you stopped running? And when you, when you lost that sort of that you probably didn't even know you were having. Do you think that had an impact exactly like this is the thing with the, this is what's been so profound for me is that this recent diagnosis has made all of these like puzzle pieces of my life finally fit into place and like why, for why I have gone from like career to career, to career and then found triathlon and have been in this now for I've been a full-time professional for 10 years. And I can't believe that I've stuck in this for 10 years, because usually I get bored and I move on what I have and what I realized when I became a full-time athlete. I'm like this, this doesn't feel like work to me. This doesn't feel like a job. Like I love my life. I love waking up every day and doing this and didn't realize that like a quote unquote job could feel like this. And I think what is so special about me finding this as, um, as an athlete, is that as a person with ADD is that it is absolutely self-made at medicating. You know, all of the things that I'm learning about, like how to cope with ADD symptoms is like exercise, exercise, exercise, and structure, and it like, this is checking so many of those boxes, plus it's three different sports. If I was just in one sport, I think I would be so bored. I would not have lasted this long, but because I have to get to swim, I get to bike, I get to run. It's like super varied and I get to travel all over the world and I get to, you know, explore so many different places, even mine in my own neighborhood. Like, you know, it, it keeps me super entertained. And obviously for the past decade.  I think one of the interesting things you said, um, is pretty awesome. The concept that it is self-medicating. And I remember when I quit drinking and I started focusing on my health and getting in shape and working out, I would, there were times where I was probably like, you know, five years ago, it has been go to the gym two times a day. Right. Or I'd go out for I'd wake up at 3:00 AM because it was the only time I'd do a 10 mile run, you know, before I had to lift at 7:00 AM, be in the office by eight and. I remember I had a friend of mine. He goes, dude, you're self-medicating, you're just, you just switched one addiction for another. I'm like, um, yeah, where's, where's the, where's the downside there, you know, and I really didn't see it. I still don't see it. Right. Absolutely. I think, and I think what, what sport helps me do as well is, and why I'm so successful as it added is because it's a way for me to, I can hyper-focus in there. So I, because of how my brain works, I can, in my Ironman swims, I'm literally singing the same, like verse of a song over and over and over and over and over for an hour. And that helps me, like calms me. Focuses me. And then, you know, the same thing on the bike and the run it's like that I'm able to like be in, in that. And it's super hyper-focusing.  It has to be an ADHD trait because my first half iron man in 2009, um, to get through that, you know, you're not allowed to wear headphones and music has been my life in any extra that I've ever done all my life and so. The first race I ever did. First half Ironman. I'm like, Oh my God, I can't wear headphones. How am I going to get through this? And I found myself, I sang the entire, I recited the entire on the bike, the entire script back to the future and on the run, the entire script to midnight run. And, you know, I mean, there were times when I'd be, I'd be passing people more like if people were passing me, but you know, I remember passing one guy and, and, and he hears, and looks at me strangely cause out of my mouth comes, “you guys are the worst bounty hunters I've ever seen. You couldn't bring back a bottle of milk!?” And he looked at me, he goes, like, “yeah, just have a good race”. And you know, but, but, but that works right. And, and, and the premise of being able to do something in our brain that gives us after four minutes gives us those chemicals for as long as we want for as long as we can, you know, technically sustain it. Right. Is, is I just think one of the miracles of the human body and the human brain. And I don't mean to be trite by that, but it really, you know, I'm upset. I'm frustrated, I'm angry. Let's get on the bike. Let's go for a run. Let's go for a swim. Um, tell me about, so tell me about training because a lot of times when I talk to athletes with ADHD, one of two things happens. They wake up and my God, they love to train on certain days and they wake up and, Oh my God, I, this the last thing I want to do, I'll I'll murder 14 people and eat ants before I have to get on that bike or go for that run over that one.  Yeah. I mean, for me, I am definitely the person who wakes up and is like pretty excited to train. It's tough. It's obviously not every day. And I do what keeps me going is the accountability of like having coaches, um, who I know are paying attention to what I'm doing. And also, um, having sponsors and fans and supporters who are. They're behind me. And so it's, it's like this level of accountability that keeps me going every day.  How, I mean, I do wake up in the morning and it definitely takes me a couple of hours to, to get ready to go. Um, and I'm really good at procrastinating too. So I, I have to, if I don't work out first thing in the morning when I wake up, I simply do not work out. And I have had, um, uh, you know, if I, if I have to do it. You know, in the evening, um, I will think of a reason, you know, I've, I've said this in the podcast before I'll be walking to the gym, you know, from my office, like, you know, I read an article in the news, there's an asteroid orbiting Pluto, you know, just to be safe and I figure out a way not to do it. And so, so, so, you know, the question becomes, um, what do you tell yourself? How do you sometimes when you don't want to do, but you have to, what do you do.  Um, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm really in that same boat of when I, so I work, um, once a week at, uh, in sexual health and it's basically a seven hour or eight hour shift in front of a computer and talking on the phone and at the end of that shift, I am completely wiped. And I, if I, it is really challenging for me to, to get in that workout. And I really just for me, I just, I can't think about it. I just need to, like, I need to have a plan and a time. So it's like, if I have a swim then, okay. My swim is scheduled for like five o'clock. I've got to be there or a gym session. It's like, it's on the way home. So I can't hesitate basically. Um, And, you know, when I first started triathlon and I, when I first started, I was, I was really quickly at an elite level and training at an elite level and still working full time. So I was like up at four 30 in the pool at five, working from seven 30 to three 30, doing another workout in the afternoon and evening, and then like getting up and doing it all over again. And. It was basically, I felt like I just wasn't thinking, I just like had to keep plowing forward. Um, and I think that's kind of one of those super powers that I have as a person with a brain like this is, um, is just that ability to just like keep moving forward.  You know, you mentioned something interesting. I want to go back to, you said that you, you, you don't mind this and you don't mind the workouts because it doesn't feel like work. Right. And I think that it's really important that our audience understand that and that we bring a little bit more into that because a lot of times add ADHD. One of the biggest issues with that is that we are as human beings. We are forced into doing things that are, uh, considered normal by everyday standards, but aren't necessarily normal for people like us, for instance, a nine to five job or some kind of work that, uh, You know, we don't necessarily love. Um, and it starts when we're really young, um, as, as, as kids, right. You know, in school where we have to sit there and not move and, and, and, and be told to pay attention, it's difficult for us. But what you said is pretty awesome, because what you mentioned is that if you love it, it doesn't feel like work. It doesn't feel like you need to, you know, you have to do this. It doesn't feel like you have to do this. You're, you're happy to do this. Right. And that's the thing that I'm noticing. Um, And I think we should touch on, because a lot of kids, adults who are just diagnosed ADHD, they haven't realized yet that the reason they're quote unquote not good at school or the reason they're quote unquote, not happy with, with their job, whatever it is because they're being forced to do something that isn't necessarily normal for them, even though it is for many other people, you know, along the premise of I became an entrepreneur because I didn't play well with others. Right. And sitting in the office from nine to five, wasn't my thing. Precisely. And this is why I'm like, when I figured this out, it really made everything click into place of like, because I had spent my, the majority of my twenties trying to do that, like Trump, when I'm wondering what was wrong with me of like, why do I hate sitting in front of this, like computer being at this.   Like going to the same place every single day and having to be there from nine to five, like, why is this so torturous? And I, my brain is not there. Like I'm incredibly inefficient at work. And, um, and so when I discovered triathlon, it totally took over my brain space and then I was getting nothing done at work. And, uh, and so. It. Yeah, it really was. It has now given me permission to, to, and I think this is what I, from listening to your podcast as well, and, and hearing about all of these other folks who have made these incredible careers, um, out of like, yeah, doing, having their own schedule, being their own boss. And this is one of the biggest things that I've been saying throughout my career. Now, when I, when I, now, when I'm thinking about like, what am I going to do when I'm not able to perform at this level? And I have to. It's figure out a new career. I have these now stipulations.  Absolutely. I cannot go to the same place every day. I probably can't have a boss. I absolutely can't sit in front of a computer for eight hours a day and I definitely cannot work nine to five. I can't have a set schedule. I need to work on my time. One of the things about COVID, um, has for me anyway, has gone, has me, has been me going from 250,000 miles a year on the road on a plane to zero and it required a lot of readjustment, because it's been a very tough ride for me to sort of get to that point where I'm like, okay, I'm not going crazy sitting in front of a computer because that's deliberately what I carved my life out to not do. Right. And all of a sudden, you know, here I am doing that and it's been tough, but I think I've managed. What are you, um, how has, how has COVID impacted you? I mean, obviously you went, you said you went to Daytona a couple weeks ago to race. I wanna hear about that, but how did you, how have you survived, been surviving the last nine months?  Well, truly, um, I live in an incredible place. So BC is so beautiful. And in my, in the recent years, I've gotten a lot more into gravel writing and really I have just, I basically pivoted. So, you know, it took me out of the really structured training, but that, but now I was able to like, kind of do some of the things that I I'd always wanted to do. W, you know, athletic, you basically use my fitness to go and have adventures. So I went and spent a week in the riding gravel in the Rocky mountains. I went up to Northern BC and did a bunch of gravel riding and, um, basically just. And then exploring the trails here, um, in, in our, in, in my neighborhoods, like we have incredible mountains here. Uh, and so it was really about creating a structure in a different way and tapping into some of those, like, I love adventure and I have like these huge goals of, of doing ultra distance things in my future and so it was a little bit of a, you know, starting to explore a bit of that.  Well, we'll talk about Daytona. What was it like? And it was the first, I mean, I haven't, I haven't done it yet. God's been well over a year now. I was supposed to do Kona this year and that obviously did not happen so hoping for 21, but yeah, I finally get to meet you. That'd be great. And well, well, if you want to hang out, I mean, I guess if you want to hang out for like another eight hours after you finish, you know, you'll eventually see me cross the other side as well, and then that'd be fun. Um, what, tell me about the experience with, for you.  Um, Daytona was really incredible. I mean, talk about having something to inspire the world of triathlon into 2021. Um, you know, the, the, the race was such a unique format. It was an incredible field of full of, you know, short course Olympians and long course world champions. And it was an incredibly dynamic race and really unique, I mean, being at the Daytona international Speedway and having the whole course on that, it was incredibly spectator friendly and you got a whole lot of spectator, uh, support and, um, and B it was like, you know, you're going around in a circle 20 times. Of course, uh, it is, uh, it is a really different animal than anything I think that any of us had ever raised. And so you saw, you saw the carnage on the run that, that bike had the toll that it had taken out on all of us. And, um, it was, it was a very, very cool experience even to just like connect with the triathlon community again. You know, we were all socially distanced and masked, but you know, you still felt that, that connection. And I think the response afterwards, I have heard from all over the world of people, just like, I'm so glad that that happened. Um, because it's been really motivating to, to take us into 2021.  Well, the interesting things about that race, I'd be curious about your opinion, you know, most, most uh, Ironman, most, most half Ironman. You, you, you write a course outside and it's, you know, a set map, right? Like, um, when it, last time I did Atlantic city, it's, you know, you start by the boardwalk and you ride through the streets and you get onto the highway and you read the highway for a while. And then you repeat that three times. And there's your six miles. Um, this was 20 times around, uh, a race track, as you mentioned. And as I was watching it, I was, I was chatting with a bunch of my, my, my triathlon friends. And they're like, Oh my God, it's so boring. I'd kill myself this way. My first thought was. Actually that's awesome because my ADHD brain looking at it that way is able to count down. That's okay. 20. Okay. 19. Okay. 18. And to me, my God, I feel like every track I'm going to be that.  Yeah. I mean that, I was actually, I loved that aspect of it because I mean, that's what you have to do with those big efforts is like, you know, take them down into smaller blocks and it was so easy to do. And exactly like, it was basically just like having that song on repeat just like going, going, you know? And, and so it really allowed me to do. But a hyper-focus and that those two hours on the bike went by in a flash. It was incredible.  Yeah. And that's, like I said, that's probably, to me that would have been the best part because, you know, I remember Cozumel full Ironman and even that was three times a week around, um, the Island. Right. And it was flat, but it was still three times. And so even. Even with the headwinds, which were just, Oh my God, I wouldn't wish on anybody. Even with that. I remember thinking, okay. Three, okay. Two. Okay. One, but it was still 33, 30, six, 33 miles a piece. I feel like 20 times around would have been a lot. Cause it's a much less mileage. It would have been easier for the brain to break down. Cause that's really the first time we ever start running. Right. And so, okay. I just wanna get to that light post right. The second time. Okay. I just want to get to that tree. Okay. I just wanna do a mile and you know, I, I think that as human creatures, we just do that. And when you're ADHD, it actually benefits you that much more because you in your head it's, I mean, how many times have you run a race where you're trying to calculate what your time's going to be? Okay. If I could do this X mile and X, X minutes, then the mile after that would be nine minutes and that, you know, and then if I do the run right every time on the bike, I'm like, okay, if I can get this time with a bike that gives me.   You know, I could say I could walk X hours. Right. But yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I would argue in Cozumel too, I've done that race twice. Uh, that those three loops you can actually divide those loops into four bits, like jungle part. You've got the bottom part. You've got the windy part. You got the town part. Yeah. I am. I'm scared to death about Kona. I'm gonna have to get, I'm going to get there a week earlier and do exactly that like 10 miles a piece. Okay. This is 10 miles of this is the 10 minutes, you know, just to make it through, but. Tell me, um, what would you suggest?  So, so it's obvious that that, that, that exercise is, is sort of the best potential fixer for ADHD, add and ADHD, the best thing to keep it used as an advantage. So knowing that, what do you, what's the one piece of advice you'd give to listeners when you, when they say it, uh, you know, I just, I don't exercise. I'm too fat. I'm too thin up to this. I've never done it before, whatever, what's the first, the only, the best advice you can give to them that says, Hey, here's why you can do this. Or how to start it or whatever. Yeah, yeah.  Yeah. I mean, I think first of all, um, you need to choose something that you, that you enjoy. Like if you hate running, don't start running, like find something that you find interesting. Like whether that's like, maybe you love to dance. So like, you know, doing the Zumba classes or whatever, um, and setting a setting a schedule, like having something accountable. And so, you know, and. You know, really that breaking it down into that smaller bits of like, okay, let's just do this for three weeks. Or like, let's just do this for a week. Let's do two workouts this week. And then, you know, two workouts this week and try and set that structure and set that accountability. I think those two, those three things are the most important something you enjoy having a structure and having accountability.  That was a great quote, quick left, final question. Um, make this a lightning round. What is your favorite? Your one piece of tech that you can't train or race without? Um, you know, honestly right now, it's my Loop. Uh, my heart rate, variability monitor. I live and breathe by this attracts everything attracts my workouts attracts my sleep, but yeah, everything. What's your resting heart rate. If you comfortable telling us, uh, my resting heart rate, it's usually around 54.  Crazy. Okay. That's that's I, all of a sudden, I don't feel anywhere near as out of shape as I should be. Cause that's, that's the same as mine, so I feel pretty awesome right now. I'm not going to put an Ironman. That's okay. Um, final question. Uh, if you had to, if you were forced to live in one place by yourself for six months, with only three items, what would they be?  Three items. Um, Pair of running shoes. Um, Oh gosh, three items, a pair of running shoes. I mean, I have to say my bike and, um, coffee.  Hah! Great answers. I like that. Very, very cool. Thank you so much, guys. Listening to Rach McBride, a phenomenal interview. I definitely want to have you back before Kona. If nothing else would talk me off the ledge. So I'm looking forward to that.  I will repeat really fast. My favorite, um, story that came out of my first time. And I was, uh, I had been running, uh, an internet company that had gotten some. President was pretty popular back then called help a reporter out. And, um, people that used it and thousands, a hundred thousand people use it. One of the people that use it was, was the head of, um, uh, public relations for jelly belly. Um, and Joey makes sport beans and I'm sure you've, you know, sport games. And so they, I, I mentioned in one of my emails, my love of scorpions, and they sent me a jersey, um, that said, um, that all of it had pictured jelly beans all over the other. It's gorgeous. I've worn it for like, everybody's sort of done it. So. Um, I'm sitting on the docks because it has, I'm a waiting for the race to repair like 5:00 AM. I couldn't sleep. I got up early, went down there, you know, and I'm just sitting, watching the water, the chilled water, I see a Manatee. I'm like, Oh, it looks like me. And, um, you know, I'm just watching, watching any, uh, a German triathlete, obviously a pro, um, comes over to me and says, ah, he sees my shirt. He goes, I see you to a sponsored athlete. Um, Yeah, they gave me a shirt and he goes, well, you know, this is, this is good. This is good. This is it'd be good. Good to race against other professionals. Are you, are you, are you hoping to place? He actually looked at me and asked me if I was hoping to place. Um, and I looked at him and of course it's wearing a shirt, says D’avella. Yeah. Right. Obviously sponsored by sir. Um, I noticed from your shirt, you're sponsored by D’avella one of the, obviously the fast triathalon bikes in the world. Sir, if you look at my shirt and then see I’m sponsored by fucking candy, and I'm not hoping to place, he goes with, what is your time goal? I go, it's the same day. I need you to just go over there. And that was how I started my first iron man German guy asked me if I was trying to place in the race. So it was, it was, it was a fun experience. But, uh, thank you so much for taking the time to come out today, to talk to us. I'm looking forward to chatting with you again, and we got so much more. We need even get to talk about your, your, your other skills, all that stuff. So that's going to have to come up next. We'll definitely have you back in like a month or so. And then we'll, we'll do this again. Amazing. I love it. Awesome. Thank you so much. Happy training and stay safe guys, Faster Than Normal is here for you. We want to know what you think as, as, um, I'm recording this probably like 13 days. So the end of the year, we're hoping that 2021 is a better year. I want to know who you want to hear. Um, you, uh, Rachel actually came suggested to us from a mutual friend. So if you have anyone you think who has ADHD or just an interesting person, has a story to tell about diversity. Do you think they should be in the podcast? I'd love to hear from them. Should have them shoot me an email. peter@shaman.com or shoot me an email. Introduce us whatever the case may be. We're looking for great guests in 2021. Like we've had for the past four years. Thank you all for listening. I appreciate it. Stay safe. Stay healthy. Wear the mask. ADHD is a gift, not a curse. We'll see you soon. Credits: You've been listening to the Faster Than Normal podcast. We're available on iTunes, Stitcher and Google play and of course at www.FasterThanNormal.com I'm your host, Peter Shankman and you can find me at petershankman.com and @petershankman on all of the socials. If you like what you've heard, why not head over to your favorite podcast platform of choice and leave us a review, come more people who leave positive reviews, the more the podcast has shown, and the more people we can help understand that ADHD is a gift, not a curse. Opening and closing themes were performed by Steven Byrom and the opening introduction was recorded by Bernie Wagenblast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week. 

Kris spent a decade in TV news before starting Tight Line Media in 2006. Her first book, My Place Among Men, is available now and her most recent film Ocean to Idaho capturing the migration of thousands of salmon on their return from the Oregon coast to the Idaho wilderness premieres this Summer and you can see the trailer at tightlinemedia.com. Facebook Twitter Instagram   The Outdoor Biz Podcast   Please give us a rating and review HERE Show Notes Tightline Media Ocean to Idaho My Place Among Men OWAA Intro to Outdoors I grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah, the Wasatch mountains were my playground and I always felt comfortable outside. I didn't grow up hunting with my dad. I didn't grow up fishing with my dad. I grew up hiking with my dad. And my dad is forever lost. He doesn't have an internal compass. My mom says I don't have a danger gene, which is probably true, but my dad doesn't have an internal compass. And so we would wander endlessly and he would never admit he was lost. But, I found that by following his dusty frame down a little trail forever and ever, that I learned patience, persistence, resilience, and all those things helped me do my job today. I would just follow him when I was little. I didn't question if we were lost, but I knew darn well we were, and as I got older, I figured that out, but I still knew lost or not that I was comfortable outside. That's where I feel at home. Advice All right. So when it comes to the outdoor business, I have a pretty interesting take on it. And it comes from two and a half decades of watching our industry shift. And I'm just so impressed by what I see within our industry as things shift and what matters now, and the way to come at this business. If I were coming at it now would be to look at it from the user's perspective in every way. And that is because the way we value our natural resources has made a dramatic shift in the last century. And you can see it in the way that outdoor users lay out their expectations and those users are your customers. So a century ago we were, we were mining, logging. Resources to us were, what do we get out of them? What can they do for us with a dollar sign? Now, look at where we're at today. They're still mining, logging, drilling, developing a little bit of damming and all that still going on, but you know what? Now there's a seat at the table for that natural resource as it is. Natural resources hold a value for what they offer us as they are. Or in many cases that you see today as they will be, as they're put back together, that has a value. Now our natural resources hold, hold value beyond the dollar. And when your customers start realizing natural resources, hold value beyond the dollar, The way to connect to them is to also value those natural resources beyond the dollar. Favorite Book Oh the Places you'll Go by Dr. Seuss Favorite Outdoor Gear My favorite piece of outdoor gear pushes the hundred dollars mark, pretty hard, but I think it's still worth it. It's trail running shoes. So, I've tried different brands. And it just kind of depends on what kind. I think it all comes down to cushion. I used to run barefoot, so I'm a minimalist. Kris' Ask Stick your feet in the river, any river, the closest one you can get to. People say they don't have the access to the outdoors, but you know, don't you drink water and that water is coming from somewhere. It's fine. Find flowing water and stick your feet in it. It just makes that connection to our outdoor world. Connect with Kris: Tightline Media   09:18 - 09:23 Mon Teaser 01:43 - 02:38 Intro to Outdoors 41:18 - 43:09 Advice   Transcription Welcome to the outdoor biz podcast. Your home for inspiring conversations with outdoor insiders each week. Author speaker adventurer and outdoor industry veteran Rick Saez. Rick talks in depth with iconic brand founders, sales and marketing pros, product designers and industry rising stars. Listen in when Rick's guests offer actionable advice to land your ideal industry gig and grow your outdoor career. [00:00:27] Catch us again when the conversation shifts to the hottest outdoor products destinations and the latest industry insights. And now here's Rick episode, 256 of the outdoor biz podcast with Tightline media CEO. Chris Milkie brought to you this month by audible crisp in a decade and TV news before starting Tightline media in 2006. [00:00:50] Her first book, my place among men is available now at her most recent film ocean to Idaho capturing the migration of thousands of salmon on their return from the Oregon coast to the Idaho wilderness premieres. This summer, you can see the trailer@tightlinemedia.com. Welcome to the show, Chris. Thanks for having me. [00:01:06] Yeah. Good to chat with you this morning. What's happening in your world today? Uh, today the sun's out. We have snow on the ground, but, um, and it as we should, this time of year in Idaho, so yeah. We like that. That's a good thing. Yeah. That's a good thing. That means is there's a little moisture to fill the rivers again, as the cycle goes. [00:01:25] Yes. As it goes, we want those rivers full. Yeah. We need that hair too. I'm in Bishop and it's a pretty dry land of little rain as Mary Austin dubbed it. What, uh, what triggered your love for the outdoors and adventure that started at a young age? From what I can tell through your bio? I grew up in salt Lake city, Utah, the Wasatch mountains were my playground and I always felt comfortable outside. [00:01:53] And I recognized that at an early age and I, I didn't grow up hunting with my dad. I didn't grow up fishing with my dad. I grew up hiking with my dad. And my dad is forever lost. So when you like, yeah, that's a direction a right. Yeah. He doesn't have an internal compass. My mom says I don't have a danger gene, which is probably true, but my dad doesn't have an internal compass. [00:02:17] And so we would wander endlessly and he would never admit he was lost. But, uh, I found that by following his dusty frame down a little trail forever and ever. That I learned patience, persistence and resilience and resilience and all those things helped me do my job today. Yeah. But yeah, I would just follow them when I was little. [00:02:41] I did question if we were lost, but I knew darn well, we were, and I, as I got older, I figured that out, but I still. New last or not that I was comfortable outside. That's where I feel home. That's very cool. Do you have any, what did you get in any really major, uh, lost events like you had to spend the night or, you know, it took you all night to get home any of that kind of stuff? [00:03:02] Um, I think, well, as far as last goes, I kept, I don't remember. I was like needing a rescue now, uh, on a trail race recently they pulled the flags ahead of me and yes, I did get legitimately lost and it took. Uh, some, some people on the ground coming to find me, cause I went in the wrong direction, but when I was little and there was nothing serious like that, I do remember. [00:03:27] Hiking in the high you winters. And there was nobody there. And we came across in one day during one hike, um, this metal with about five bull moose laying down in it. And I've always remembered that thinking, this is it. This is like what you're going to see every time you hike. And that's not the case. [00:03:46] Right. But, you know, thank goodness he was lost. We saw amazing things and I have no idea of how to get to that spot now. And he probably doesn't either, but yeah, because we kind of wandered, we found some amazing places and in that same trip, we also got stuck in the pouring rain. And I remember throwing everything. [00:04:06] Into the truck soaking wet and leaving in the middle of the night because we were drowning lost you, you find some pretty cool stuff it's getting lost is not always a bad thing. Yeah. And so your bio also says, uh, you had a fear of men and beards talk a little bit about that. So I spent a lot of time hiking with my dad without that danger deem that my mom says I don't want to have. [00:04:35] My dad did not have a beard growing up. It was a clean shaven household, but I, uh, as long as I've been comfortable outside, I've always also been afraid of beards. It's just like being born left-handed I was born and as I got older, I kind of figured out why I was painfully shy and I didn't want to talk to anybody, but with a beard. [00:04:57] For sure. It was out of the question. Yeah. And now that I'm older and I've had time to kind of think through it, I've figured out what it is when I was younger, I studied people. I wanted to know what made them tick. What, what worked in there. Speaking of style. What did it do? You know? I knew I was going to be a storyteller and as a storyteller, I needed to be able to ask questions and get over being shy. [00:05:21] So I would study people. So when I was shy and I would look away because I didn't want you to look at me, I would still study you. And if you had a beard, I couldn't see your facial expressions. And so, uh, as a child, you have to realize what that means. Just like the kids that are dealing with faces that have masks over them. [00:05:39] Now, a beer to me was kind of like a mask and I couldn't read that person's character. I felt like they had something to hide because they were hiding under hair. And so that made me think that there was something hippy. No, no. I run around with beards in the woods all the time, and I realized that the beard does not determine the character, but when I was little, I thought they were hiding something with all that hair. [00:06:03] Yeah. When you're a little kid, it's interesting how you respond to some of the different, you know, looks or facial expressions too. Sometimes it just doesn't mean what you think it means. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And so much of that is lost, you know, if we get into this pandemic and like, okay, we can make these adjustments, but. [00:06:19] Much lost in our face when we can not see half of it when we have a discussion. Yeah. Yeah. So much is lost. You see a lot in the eyes, but not all of it. You got to eat that whole face. Yeah. Have you tested how much you have to smile with a mask on before your eyes? It's ridiculous. Yeah. I find myself smiling a lot more to just a guy getting my eyes sparkle, you know, so people know I'm not mad at them. [00:06:42] Right. If you were to take that mask off, it's a goofy grin. Right. Fully showing exactly what it to meet your eyes. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You have to put a big old smile on that's, right? Yeah. Yeah. How did your writing career get started? Did that start at a young age? Yes, I started writing. Um, yeah, I remember even in elementary school I could always write, I like English. [00:07:03] I understood sentence structure. I understood what worked and how to break it apart and make it work even better. And then through junior high and high school that kind of carried through and you take that test in high school that says here's what you should be when you grow up. Right. And of course, mine said communicator, and of course, Everyone laughed at that. [00:07:20] How was the shy girl going to be a reporter? That's ridiculous. Yeah, but I knew what I was going to be. And I was going to figure out how to get over all my quirks and had to be a storyteller. So I knew my major when I went to college, it was broadcast journalism. I was going to tell you stories on TV and the 10 o'clock news. [00:07:41] And I never, I never wavered from that. I could always write. And that was my strong point. I learned to shoot. I learned to read script in a voice that sounds like we're talking and not reading or there's all these little nuances to it. Yeah. And then I worked for TV stations for a decade, one TV station, another around the country. [00:08:00] And the whole point was to get to a bigger market. And, you know, I came from salt Lake city. That's a big TV market. I wanted to get back there. Yeah. And then as I moved around, well, you know, my job was great, but my lifestyle sucked and I worked at 11 o'clock at night and yeah. You know, my husband didn't like in us, some of the places that we live. [00:08:18] And so right about the time that the internet was, you know, born, I realized all the mediums were going to mesh. And so after 10 years of TV contracts, I went freelance. And what that did for me was instead of just working for one TV station, I could work for all of them. And I could work for newspaper magazine, radio, web. [00:08:42] I could work for all of them. Because I could always write, I could write for any medium and because I could shoot, I knew how to frame up a shot for video ads for photo and what needed. I understood the specs for laying it out in paper versus on screen. And so everything kind of translated really well for me. [00:09:03] But the basic was, I always knew how to write. I have an obsession with words I'm terrible with numbers. Don't make me do math, but I can write you an essay all day long. And I'm always playing with words in my head. And so, uh, my brother and sister always teach me that I have my own alphabet and I have, since I was little. [00:09:24] So that's kind of been my saving grace, where I could always write about anything for any medium. And that has kind of evolved into where I'm at now with Tightline media as a freelancer fortunate too, that you you'd recognize that early on. I mean, that's huge too, to know that. Yeah. What inspired you to pick up a camera? [00:09:43] The inspiration for picking up the camera came. When I realized that while I had all of these words and I could put them in perfect order, there was a visual component. I wanted to see what went with those words. And that's why I chose the video TV medium. When I did right from the get-go video is my base. [00:10:00] That's my primary world. And when you see nowadays, there's a lot of films with a lot of slow-mo in them. I think the reason we're seeing that slow Mo happen in film is because you have a lot of still photographers shooting videos, and they're shooting those videos with a still camera. And they're used to thinking in a single frame of still interesting. [00:10:22] And I come from the brain, that's used to seeing action and I want things to happen in real time. And we don't move in slow mode. So rarely will I put Mo in my videos. Right. And then. Having that base of video be my world. It was a pretty easy transition to learn how to shoot photo I've shot video for twenty-five years, I've shot photo for 15. [00:10:47] And I had, I had no problem taking a class from a professional pre-talk photographer to teach me how to use my camera in manual mode versus auto mode and the class wasn't about framing. I already knew how to frame up subjects and what, how to tell that story. It was about how to use the. Different apertures and shutter speeds. [00:11:07] Yeah. You know, some of that translates between a video camera photo, but not everything. Yeah. Yeah. So I picked that up, but I've always wanted to see what you were showing me and what that means in a story is on video. You know, that the guy that I'm in the fishing boat with is wearing a blue jacket. When I write that for a newspaper or magazine, I have to tell you he's in a blue jacket. [00:11:28] Right? So the writing style is a little different. That's interesting that you picked up on that visual. Where do you think, what do you think triggered that? Is it just the actual experience you had it in telecom? I think that I chose the visual medium right out of the gate, because I've always been. [00:11:46] Obscenely aware of what's going on around me. And I knew at a young age back clear back when I was studying faces that I had that visual, a desire to see what's going on versus spell it out. I've always liked to write, but I didn't want to have to always spell out everything. I wanted you to see it right. [00:12:06] And I can see that in my own kids. Now, you know, when our, when our boys turned 12, they each get a trip with me when they turn 18, they get a trip with my husband. So. When the oldest one turned 12, he chose San Francisco because our boys play hockey and he wanted it to see the black Hawks play the sharks and San Jose. [00:12:26] And we stayed, we stayed in downtown San Francisco in the financial district and he looked just like you and I was little, we walked around downtown. And when you're in a big city, people put on blinders. They don't look at the time. He was probably gobsmacked by all that. It blew him away. And I think that's one of the reasons we do these trips. [00:12:44] We live in Idaho falls. It's pretty small. I want them to be exposed to all different kinds of lifestyles. Right. And you have to go to a different city to get that. And so he was blown away by what he saw. And he said on the first day he said, mom, There's no one looks at each other. There's cement everywhere. [00:13:06] And the only bird I've seen as a pigeon. And so he, I can see that that was totally me. When I was little. I was really aware of how people were not connected with each other and not connected with the world around them. Yeah. Yeah. Still, still to this day, even more so maybe in some places. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's, that's how I was when I was a little and it's really neat to see that in my kids. [00:13:29] That's very cool. Yeah. Where does your entrepreneurial spirit come from? Are there entrepreneurs in your family that I don't have a danger gene, but I might have a crazy gene. What it is. I will say this. Um, my father is. By far the proudest workaholic I've ever known. And I pick up my workaholic, workaholic tendencies from him. [00:13:56] What did he do? Um, he is, uh, you'll love this. My father is an architect, but of a very specific genre. If you walk into a building with my father, he will always look up. And he always looks up because he's looking for the sprinkler heads. Okay. Gotcha. My dad makes sure your building doesn't burn down. [00:14:17] That's good. Yes. And, um, there were several times growing up, we had it, he had a dad in our basement and time and time again, he would start businesses on his own and try to have his own business of sprinkled fire, sprinkler design over and over and over again. And I remember growing up with that. And so when I decided to go freelance, I honestly, I was really hesitant to start tightlining media because my dad had tried so many times to start and I did not want my family relying on me and then me not being able to really start. [00:14:56] And so to be at the, be at the Mark where Tightline media is turning 16 years old. Yeah, I had made it through the recession and the pandemic by the skin of my teeth sometimes, but, but, um, that's significant to me and I also think it's significant to my father. Uh, but I'll bet. Yeah, you started then you're and you're, you know, you haven't finished yet, but you're still going there. [00:15:20] I mean, you got it off the ground. That's I can relate to that with, we talked about this before we turned the mic on about the podcast. I mean, it's in my, I get mine from my grandfather. Same thing. He started, he was always Twinkie, you know? Tinkering with ideas and started this and started that so I can totally relate. [00:15:36] Yep. That's where it is. Interesting. And so tell our listeners about what we've talked a little bit about your TV news career. What did you like most about that? Oh, the storytelling, what I like most about TB was the storytelling, but in TV news, um, I had to learn, I had to learn early on that I needed to create an instant rapport with strangers. [00:15:59] Yeah. You have to have a rapport with somebody before they will talk to you. And if you don't know them, I mean, I'm meeting people, new people every day, and I've got to do a story for live, live story for the five o'clock six o'clock, 10 o'clock, and there's gotta be at least two interviews in that story. [00:16:15] That's six new people a day that I had to develop an instant rapport with and get them to tell me their secret, that easy, you know? And so I liked, uh, I can, I'm intrigued by challenge. I think. That's something that becomes pretty obvious in me. When you talk to me about my work, when you look at my stories, I'm pretty obsessive about what I do and I can, are you out with my, uh, overeager sense of being when it comes to covering the outdoors and doing it in a proper, proper storytelling manner? [00:16:50] And so the idea that I could tell a story. And frankly, tell that story in two minutes, because of a newscast it's gotta be within two minutes, pretty phenomenal. So you don't waste words, you get right to the point. Yeah. That's a great skill. So even when a magazine will say, we need you to write a thousand words, that's a lot. [00:17:10] And a book, 50,000 words, that's a lifetime to me. And when I come from a world of two minutes news, I'm not going to waste any words. So even if you put me on a thousand word magazine story or a 50,000 word book, every single word has purpose in there. There's no fluff because I come from two minutes of news where you did an add any extra fluff. [00:17:35] So do you think it's harder for you to write, like in those big, long magazine articles and books and stuff because of that, or you just have to work harder to, you know, make it a detailed story? I find that writing, um, length longer than 500 words is harder for me. And I know why it's harder. It's because I come from where you did quick, fast turns. [00:17:58] Yeah. You shot at wrote edited the same day, probably within a two to four hour timeframe. And I'm used to that pace. It's hard to get me to slow down and work at a longer pace. Uh, even while magazines that might have, like, you know, they're planning a year out right now. Yeah. If you give me an assignment right now, I want to work on it right now. [00:18:20] I don't want to work on it in may or an August issue. Right. So I've had to learn to pace myself a little better. And I think that's been a good thing to learn because as I've learned to pace myself, I've also learned to tolerate the pieces. And there is no doubt that was in a lengthy piece. You are a stronger writer because you add to it things that you can not fit into many [00:18:47] Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, yeah, the story is more important because you put more detail in it. You don't just put fluff in it. It's, it's relevant, very relevant to the story. Whereas a lot of people write these things. It's like, well, you could have said that in three words, you know? So when I wrote my place upon bed, I sent him my first draft and it was 15 one, five, 15,000 words. [00:19:10] Oh, I'm spent, that's like the most I've ever written because the Austin, my editor cut that in half, sent me back. 8,000 words said not good enough. Dig deeper. Yeah. And I had no idea that I had deeper in me, but I did. And it strengthened my writing to a whole new level. That was so obvious that the year my book came out, which was last year, um, all the outlets that I was working for, we said, wow, Your writing has advanced so much. [00:19:43] And I knew exactly why it's because I had to push to reach 50,000 words and make every single word count. And then your writing goals to a whole new level, when you have to meet that type of challenge, and it shows up in all your other work. Yeah, boy, it sticks with it. Yeah. Once you do that, I'll bet he wrote everything. [00:20:01] You're right. Yeah. Well, good on the editor. That was awesome. [00:20:06] So I can take a criticism and then I just suck it up and move on with it, but we'll do it dig in. Yeah, I hear you. Yeah. We're willing to do that in the show notes. That's I look forward to getting that book. Sounds like a great story. Is your time in TV? The inspiration behind Tightline media is that where that came from? [00:20:23] My timing TB was. In a roundabout way and inspiration for Tightline media working, um, you know, about two years at a time under contract for one station or another, I worked for every station, but CBS that's kinda just how it worked out. And so, um, you, you learn a lot about the industry. You work in small markets where you have to do every job from running the teleprompter to editing your own stories, to whatever happens. [00:20:50] It has to happen up by you because small markets, that's how it goes in bigger markets. Everyone fights about who has to do what, because no one wants to do anything. And so that was weird to me. I just wanted to work. I just wanted to tell stories and yeah. And TV. I had to cover crops and crime and whatever else was on the police scanner for the day or down at city hall. [00:21:10] And, uh, I would, I know that from the very beginning, I was always shoving outdoor stories into people's TVs. There was not an outdoor beat, but I wanted there to be. And I know that those stories mattered. It doesn't matter if you hike, bike, hunt, fish, whatever it is you do outside. The reason that opportunity exists is because something's going on, that's conserving our natural resources to the lab to make it so that you can recreate. [00:21:37] And so those stories really matter to me. So I would shove them in your TV anyway, under, and I'd figure out how to make them the top story of the night. It was some kind of news hitch. So by the time I decided to go freelance, Yes. I knew video was going to be my base, but instead of being general assignment, I niched out 95% of what I do is outdoor related. [00:21:59] And that's a conscious decision when I went freelance. It was because I didn't want to cover crops in crime anymore. Yeah. Those still come into my stories. You know, if we've got crime, it's used to poaching wildlife trafficking crops, certainly that matters. We've got deer running through corn fields, right. [00:22:15] So. Those elements still matter. And I liked having to learn how to cover every possible beat. But I wanted to really hit the outdoors. So I, I niched down to that when I started testing. That's pretty smart. That's pretty smart. Yeah. That's uh, they say the riches are in the niches, so it's, you know, I haven't experienced that yet, but it's coming. [00:22:37] I don't think I've experienced it either, but if I wanted to make a lot of money, I would, I had a fatter wallet if I'd had done something else. Well, yeah, we're, we're on the outdoors because we love it. That's for sure. [00:22:51] The flexibility of my lifestyle. Yeah. The opportunity for fresh air that, that you can't be placed with just a fatter wallet. If I have a bad day and I start to gripe, my husband will just quickly say, you know what? We can shove you back in a cubicle. Do you want to do that? Find that there's problems. [00:23:11] Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a, that's a good thing about the outdoors. We can just go out and blow off some steam and. See everything and anything we want to see. Yeah. And I, but I do think there's a, on the flip side of that, everyone thinks it's just fun and glamorous to work outside. I'm telling you right now, a 15 hour day in a wildfire where my nose bleeds all day and hundreds of miles from decent food and a bathroom. [00:23:35] Those are not glamorous days. Right. And there's a lot of work that goes into those shots. You know, the guy that's fishing, he's having a great day of play. Me trying to shoot footage of him. Fishing is not play. It is work. Yeah, no, it is. It's all work. I think that's the thing that we all, whatever you chose choose to do as a vocation, there are going to be parts of it that are work. [00:23:55] I don't care how much fun most of it is. You know, I, I have two degrees in recreation and, you know, made a choice early on to make the outdoors, my vocation. But there are days when is your sales guy or you're a product guy or whatever that they're, it's work and just the nature of the beast, I think. Yeah. [00:24:13] And I think that there's a real tendency by people that want to especially get into the outdoor work that will do it for nothing. And I worry about that because this isn't a hobby for me. This is how I feed my family. And I have to make money or I have to do something else. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a lot of that. [00:24:32] People are selling their services for lower amounts and I think that they are doing it, the service through a lot, a lot of the outdoor pros. And eventually they're going to find out that, you know, there. There is they're going to come to a point where they're not going to go to that lowest bidder because they want to make some money too. [00:24:47] So it's you muzzle start out making a decent, you know, charging a decent amount so you can continue, but that could be a whole nother. Maybe that should be a whole nother episode. Actually. That's a good one. That leaves a good one. Then I think a lot of the reason you'll see that under cutting of. Value across the industry is people are doing this on the side of some off of other office jobs. [00:25:08] Yeah. Or they just want to break into it and they think that's the way to do it. Yeah. Yes, yes. You know, I helped mentor my neighbor's grandson. She came over to the day and she was so excited and she's like, he graduated, he's out of college and he's writing for this newspaper and I'm so glad you helped him. [00:25:23] And I said, Oh, I'm so happy to hear that. I'd love it. And she said, yeah, he's getting paid in beer. I said, Oh no, that's not how this goes down. He is not going to be able to feed his family on beer and the beer is going to wear out, you know, pretty quickly. Yup. Yup. Beer and gear. You can't, you can't make, make a living and feed your face beard gear. [00:25:44] So yeah, you need dollars in there somewhere. Folks. We're going to take a little break, give some love to our sponsor. Hey, do you love to read, but don't always have the time to sit down with a good book on the same. And sometimes I just feel like having someone else tell the story. Well, if you use audible, then you know, if not you're missing out, it's like having a library in your phone. [00:26:04] And I use it a lot. Auto helps a mile slot by when I'm on the road. As I'm enjoying great books I discover or recommended by friends. Get your free audio book, download and a 30 day free trial@audibletrial.com slash the outdoor biz podcast. There are over 180,000 titles to choose from. Go to audible trial.com/the outcrop is podcast and start your free 30 day trial with audible today. [00:26:26] And now back to the show. So he talked a little bit about your new film ocean to Idaho. I saw the trailer this morning. That looks pretty cool. Oh, I'm glad you saw the trailer. I it's very likely you're the first person to see it because I just finished it. It's kind of coming. Like everyone is going to learn soon that it's out. [00:26:45] So I'd love that you got to see it. Um, okay. So the, that comes out in 2021 is ocean to Idaho and it follows salmon migration from the Oregon coast to the Idaho wilderness and the magic behind all that actually started. In early 2020 when I went on the road to follow that migration route. So it's a multi-year project and that's an unusual for me to spread something out like this. [00:27:12] But I wanted one year where I actually shocked that migration is how it had to be done. And then the next year is when it comes out. Because by the time the migration is done, we're into snow and people don't want to watch. Something like that. And they want, I want them to watch this story when the salmon are moving through the area again, and it's the longest piece I've ever edited for videos. [00:27:35] So it's, it's quite a crunch on time, but the reason so many people know about ocean to Idaho already a year in advance is because I let them follow me virtually on the road trip. Smart. Good, good. Yeah. And so everybody was at home. You know, I knew this was what I was going to do. I said, I'm going to follow salmon migration from the ocean to Idaho. [00:27:57] I said that October, 2019, by March of 2020, my plans were down the drain. And I said, I'm going to follow the salmon migration from the ocean to Idaho. That Dennett be damned. And so what I had to do was dump all my plans and figure out how to follow these fish because we were not moving, but the fish still work. [00:28:18] Right. And I wanted to follow them safely and responsibly. And that meant living out of a truck and a camper all summer, following the migration route through Oregon, Washington and Idaho. Did you do that? Solo solo all by myself, I had masks. I had a temperature chart. I had to take my temperatures for several weeks in advance before I even stepped foot in Oregon. [00:28:44] And. Um, I started following the migration in June and I've finished with the last few dozen Chinook salmon that make it to mile 850 in central Idaho wilderness in September. Wow, very cool. And it was, it was, uh, alone. There is one stretch within that 850 miles. That is all wilderness and there's no road. [00:29:07] The only way to navigate that as a raft. And I, I navigated on a raft because somebody that I know in Idaho picked up a permit because everyone from out of town could come use the tags they drawn. Yeah. And so there was that 80 mile stretch of the 850 mile route when I wasn't alone because my family was with me and we run a raft with other families on their rafts and we did whitewater rafting through that wilderness stretch. [00:29:33] Well, that's cool. Other than that I was alone. And, um, I shoot with five cameras and I shot the five cameras by myself. I lived out of a Toyota Tundra and a four wheel camper on top of that. I had to learn how to run everything in one day and when everything kind of fell into place and I said, I'm going, and I'm going to have to do it in a way that isolates me. [00:29:58] Toyota stepped in with, with wheels, but will camper stepped in with the house on top of the wheels? And I knew I was going to go and I just, yeah. Needed somewhere safe to keep me and my gear and to isolate no one was allowed inside my camper or my truck and I wasn't with anybody unless I was interviewing them. [00:30:19] And then they were six feet away. I was totally self-contained. I didn't go into any, that's a story right there. And it's in and of itself. Are you going to tell her how you're going to tell that story or is that part of the film? That's that's a great question. Is that, do I tell that story in the film or not? [00:30:34] And right now, Here's where I'm at, letting people virtually follow me while they were stuck at home. During the pandemic really caught fire people really liked seeing what was going on in the world. Through someone who has to cover it accurately and fairly. And yeah, I don't, I don't paint it pretty. This is what's happening. [00:30:59] Yeah. Yeah. Well, we all like to live vicariously through others sometimes. So that was, yeah, I think during the pandemic that people really attached to that. And so I quickly took that road trip and morphed it into what became a kind of its own standing identity. There's this whole library of episodes and they came out twice a week. [00:31:20] People watched. I had a biomarker for miles zero to eight 50. And I'd say we're at this mile. Marker. Here's why we're here. This is the first of eight down. That's why we're right here. And then that would be on Thursday and on Tuesday it was behind the scenes. Here's my temperature chart. Here's my masks. [00:31:39] Here's what happens with my camera breaks. Here's what happens when I fall out of my camper and. You know, here's what happened. This is why my face is taped up on camera at the end. It's cause I have stitches in my face and know that got to like live all that with me. That you can't plan that. No, that's, that's, that's a story too. [00:31:57] That's a film too. That's I think my thing. So, so I've made all those episodes and people kind of seem to like the idea of binge-watching those now that they're all together. So that's fun. Yeah. But when I started to edit the film and I had 25 hours of footage, And I needed to fit it into a 26 minutes show. [00:32:15] It takes some serious prioritizing. And as a journalist in the truest sense of the word, there is no I story  perspective. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all about every person I have. Every person along that migration route and what that water means to them. And what's going on here that helps fish what's going on here. [00:32:38] That hurts fish. You have to involve all looks perspectives. I wanted everyone's perspective in this issue and I took it as my responsibility to cover it fairly accurately balanced. You know, you start talking about dams, should they stay or should they go, you damn well, better get both sides of that story. [00:32:59] So I decided in the film itself, I pulled myself out of it as a personality. And it's strictly coming from the perspective of everyone that lives along the migration route. And then I'm going to create a director's cut that, pulls it out and says, Oh yeah, here's the spot where. I broke my camera. This is what happened that day. [00:33:22] Right. And here, Oh, let me tell you about these, you know, this part here I showed up. At mile eight 50 was stitches Haggard. Yeah. God, I can't imagine. Yeah. Yeah. I think that'd be a good story right there too though. I think there's a lot of people that like to know, you know, the behind the scenes and that just got verified validated by all the people that followed you. [00:33:42] Yeah. And I think, you know, it's pretty uncomfortable to watch yourself fall apart as you're watching this fall apart. And at the end, the fish died and I didn't. And so now I have to decide how all that gets to roll out. The film itself won't have me in it, but the director's cut. Well, the road trip episodes definitely have in them. [00:34:03] Wait to see it. We'll link to that in the show notes too. It's called ocean to Idaho and there's a trailer there. That sounds super fun. I'm looking forward to that. Yeah. I got to go to the bank film festival a few times, um, back when I was with Eagle Creek and it just, all those kinds of films that you're talking about, and I really was inspired. [00:34:20] Not only by the film, but then some of the backstories when you got to go back and talk to the, the director and the filmmaker. And so I think there's, there's an opportunity to do both of those things. Yeah. Yeah. I'd agree. And I think even more so now the one thing that social media has done is it has changed the expectations on the audience's side. [00:34:38] Yeah. Yeah. You know what I was in news, I could do a live shot at 10 o'clock and tell you what happened on the TV screen. And you would watch me in your living room, but you couldn't tell me anything. You could call the district. If you wanted to complain or say, I need to know something else about this, but with social media, you can actually connect with that person more. [00:34:57] And so your expectation grows. You want a more personal connection with that journalist. Yeah. And I realize now that that, you know, halfway through my career, That was a significant shift and I needed to be open to the idea that people wanted to know what it was like to cover this story and not just know the story. [00:35:15] They're more advanced now. They want more than just the story they want the backstory. Yeah. I think they've realized they can get it now. Right back in the day they couldn't get it. They had no way. Well, I shouldn't say no way, but very few ways to reach out to the producers and the filmmakers. But now, like you say, it's just, it's right there. [00:35:32] It's on social media. Just call them up, you know, send him an email, you know, whatever it might be. Yeah. Do you have any desire to make a feature length film? Do I have any desire to make a feature length film? I thought hard about this question for a long time. Uh, you know what I mean? When I say I come from two-minute news, the longer things get. [00:35:54] The more of a lifetime, they feel, but they also, the challenge intrigues me. Uh, of adding lanes. I honestly didn't think I could pull off a book. I do not have the attention span to sit down that long, but honestly, I broke my leg in three places, coaching kid hockey, and I was on the couch for four months growing bone around a rod. [00:36:22] And I had to sit down, I was on drugs that made my muscles hold still. And so. You can crank out a pretty decent chunk of word count when you have to do that. Yes, you can. Now I don't want to do that to create a feature film, but, uh, 26 minutes for ocean to Idaho will be the longest. I have ever produced. [00:36:43] When I produce shows Freido public TV, they are for a half hour format, which is 26 minutes. Most of my other films have hovered around the 10 minute Mark, you know, uh, on the internet. Shoot. I still turn out two minutes movies. Yeah. That's what people want to watch then all the time. Yeah. But you know, as we talked about the audience expectation growing, I think that when someone says that they're going to make a feature film. [00:37:08] Your first instinct is to think, well, no, one's going to watch that it's too long. But think of the other side of that, our audiences education level and expectation level is growing. You know, they will sit down for it. Even if it's long is good enough. Well, they will. And they do. I mean, look at the explosion of Netflix and Amazon prime video and all these places, YouTube, where we watch all these things, especially now in the pandemic. [00:37:31] But even before the pandemic people, I think they liked the story part of it. Like I was saying about the, the backstory, the director's cut, if you will, of, of ocean to Idaho, that's going to be a phenomenal story. That could be an interesting film. Yeah. And I think that there's the, the intrigue of a feature film. [00:37:51] But I think it's only there for me now because I've grown into it. Yeah. There was no way back when I was doing two-minute news that I could have seriously considered a feature film. And now I've cranked out 50,000 words for a book. So Hey, maybe feature film might be the next lane. There you go, folks. [00:38:11] You heard it here? Well, let's sit with the 26 minutes. I haven't come out yet. Yeah. Let's see how that goes. Yeah. And one thing at a time. Yeah. Okay. Let's get back to some other questions. Um, so you, you do a lot of outdoor activities. Do you have a favorite, favorite outdoor activity? Something that you, and when you're not filming, when you just need to go out with the kids or just blow off some steam, do you go fishing to go hiking? [00:38:37] What do you do? Fly Fisher. I am a trail runner. I am a rafter, a hiker, a biker. I'm all those do it all. Yeah. Yeah. If I get a day off and um, I want to get out, it's not so much about what I'm doing. It's where I'm doing it. That's what matters to me. The farther away, the more rewrote mode it is, the more enticing it is to me. [00:39:05] And I think you. Even if I'm there like a high mountain Lake, you're not going to catch a big five-pound lunker and you're going to work your butt off to get up there and you're going to catch maybe something as long as your hands. Yeah. But that fishing to me is so much more rewarding because I worked so hard to get to it. [00:39:21] And there's nobody else around. Yeah. I tend to do okay. Farther away. And Trevor means the same way. I'm an ultra. So I run distance. And man, you get me back in there on the continental divide, which is deep wilderness in the Idaho Montana borders. Uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna really feel like I'm in my element because no one's around me. [00:39:42] Whereas other runners, particularly women, they feel more comfortable running where there's people. Well, I feel better running my there's no people. Yeah, I'm the same way. I, I, I do better when there's, I mean, I've been this way. My parents have, since I was a kid, I don't talk to anybody. I don't always play by myself. [00:39:59] I still do that. I still find that I would much like Bishop. There's a bunch of places that I can go fishing, but I don't like to go there cause there's, you know, you gotta find an open piece of water. I want to go somewhere where I can just go fish and, uh, or hike or whatever it is. So it's interesting. I never heard it put that way though, but that's. [00:40:17] Crystallizes it for me too. Yeah. Yeah. You'll see. You'll see me doing any of those activities. Yeah. Uh, I, I work in the hike and bike world and the hook and bullet world. So I've got to be pretty versatile for all of it. Um, and my kids have been exposed to all of us. They're little river rats. They, the ones that heck of a runner, he is so much faster than me now, but I can go farther than him. [00:40:40] So there you go. That's good. Yeah. So, uh, let's shift gears a little bit here. Do you have any suggestions or advice for folks wanting to get into the outdoor biz or grow their career or the filmmaking biz? Ooh, which one do you want to hit? Outdoor? Um, let's do outdoor height. Let's stick with outdoor. [00:40:58] Cause that's pretty much what I ask everybody. And do you want to get into outdoor outdoor as a business? Well, yeah, outdoors of business. I mean, I think outdoor, I think a lot of folks, you know, that listen to this show, they listened for the stories, but they also either are in the business or looking to get in the business and, yeah. [00:41:18] All right. So when it comes to the outdoor business, I have a pretty interesting take on it. And it comes from two and a half decades of watching our industry shift. And I'm just so impressed by what I see within our industry as things shift and what matters now, and the way to come at this business. If I were coming at it now would be to look at it from the user's perspective in every. [00:41:51] And every way, and that is because the way we value our natural resources has made a dramatic shift in the last century. And you can see it in the way that outdoor users lay out their expectations and those users are your customers. So a century ago we were, we were mining, logging. It's really pretty cavalier about the other space. [00:42:20] Yeah. Sources to us were, what do we get out of them? What can they do for us with a dollar sign? Now, look at where we're at today. Yes. They're still mining, logging, drilling, developing a little bit of damning and all that still going on, but you know what? Now there's a seat at the table for that natural resource as it is. [00:42:40] Yeah. Natural resources hold a value for what they offer us as they are. Or in many cases that you see today as they will be, as they're put back together, that has a value. Now our natural resources hold, hold value beyond dollar. And when your customers start realizing natural resources, hold value beyond dollar. [00:43:03] The way to connect to them is to also value those natural resources beyond dollar. I like it. Yeah. That's a good point. And that's a good thing. As we, as the world gets more populated and you know, these places get more crowded, it becomes more important to think about those things. I think. Yeah. You know, it was amazing to me. [00:43:23] I don't live very far from the DMV in Idaho falls, Idaho, and, um, It's downtown. Everyone passes by downtown, but it was amazing to me to see how many out-of-state plates were in the parking lot of the DMB, getting licenses for Idaho during the pandemic, California, Texas, Colorado. Plates from everywhere coming here. [00:43:44] And I live about an hour and a half from Yellowstone. So we already get an influx of travelers, but the people, the, the travel, you see the people on the river and they're usually tourists and they stop and they visit, and then they moved to Yellowstone. But the people in the parking lot at the division of motor vehicles, all those out-of-state plates were coming to stay. [00:44:03] Yeah. And so, yeah, you're starting to see that push there's that, you know, the animals. Start to shift with climate change. There's that whole shift in the migration routes is the temperature shifts. But you're also seeing with humanity, they're pushing into places that have space to have resources. Yeah. [00:44:23] You're starting to see that. And even if people don't realize that's what's going on and that's what it is, they're pushing them to safer places to be. Yeah. Yeah. With more space. Yeah. I think you're right. And people are leaving in the country too. Yeah, that's a, we see it up here. In Bishop, but more from a recreation perspective because the land is all pretty much owned. [00:44:41] You can't, there's no, you know, they're not going to build more. The city and Bishop can't get a lot bigger because the land is around them as already owned by department of water, power and, and other folks. So that can't happen. But, um, you see them out here recreating. That's interesting though. I never thought of that. [00:44:57] I never, you know, I haven't been to a small town. Like Idaho falls. So that makes sense though, because you've read about it in the news and people are talking about it all over. People are looking to leave the country, leave the state. I mean, they're itching to get out of California because it's crowded and you know, the, whether you believe or support the politics or not, it's just weird. [00:45:15] So yeah. You know, you see all those, the devastating wildfires in California, you may want to run away from that. Right. Well, when you get a fire of that size in Idaho, wilderness, no one lives there, right? Yeah. It's it's it's, uh, I mean, it's fired a grand scale and I happen to more places in California. The problem in California is that people live there and hopefully it won't, it won't impact. [00:45:40] I'd hope people will not miss more people go there. We gotta make sure that we don't let them live there. They shouldn't live there in my opinion, because it's a tricky thing. Yeah. It's tough. So, but, but, so he's got to call it right. Someone's got to say, no, we can't do this. You know, and we let him, we have these big fires in California and then. [00:45:58] The burns all these places now that we rebuild them right. Where they were. And it happens again, it's like same thing on Florida with flooding, same thing. You're not supposed to build in this zone. Don't rebuild in this. Don't you think that would make sense, but you know what, someone's home. It gets crazy. [00:46:14] I get it. It's their home. Yeah, you're right. And some of these places in these, in these, you know, remote towns and stuff, people have lived there for hundreds of years. So it's in their ancestors home, you know, I saw a bumper sticker the other day, uh, you know, the whole, it was the shape of Idaho, the state with the pan handle. [00:46:34] And it said fr we're full. A lot of folks are saying that, yeah, a lot of folks are saying that as California. And so, you know, I mean, the world said that the U S and the pandemic, they don't want us, you know, coming in. So they. Wouldn't accept passports. And I'm sure States are saying that to you for the same reason, similar reasons. [00:46:53] Anyway. Yeah. It's definitely going to make things interesting. And there's so much that has shifted lifestyle wise because there's a lot that people aren't seeing yet. And that's one of the things I think people aren't really quite seeing. Yeah. Not just visiting the river and the trails as they pass through there at the DMV getting a license, they're staying right. [00:47:16] That's going to be a different farm. Yeah. Um, how about favorite books? Do you have any favorite books or do you have a book? You give us gifts, your book? Of course, I give my book a lot. I find that writing a book puts you in this whole new realm. My place in my man is decades of the most dynamic. News stories I've covered with my perspective added to it. [00:47:39] And so I know that people like to read that. So when you read my place among men, you're reading a legitimate news story with the perspective put into it, that shows you what it's like to be in that moment. Right. And that can apply to every age, race, gender. And so people are really, I mean, I've got 12 year old, little hockey kids reading it, and I've got my neighbor that's 85 reading it. [00:47:58] So it's cool that, that matters. And if you can make a book like that, I'm drawn to those, but you know, an editor's going to tell you that that's not the best way to write if you niche down and it sells better, I'm already in it's down. Cause I'm in the outdoors. So there's some of that. If I have to pick, you know, if I'm going to pick a book that I want to give to someone, honestly, it's not a classic novel style book. [00:48:25] It's a book that fits more to my two minute attention span. And that's all the places you'll go by Dr. Seuss. Oh, cool. I love it. That's a good one. Yeah. I loved the way he plays with words. I love the way he breaks all the rules on what we think, things look like and sound like, and that he does it in about two minutes. [00:48:46] He was an amazing writer. I mean, you know, to a P to get a little kid, to sit down and write a book like that. And then even adults, like you say, some of those books, you read them as adults. Like, ah, never S I never read that before. You know, I never interpreted that way before. That's cool. How about your favorite piece of outdoor gear? [00:49:03] Under a hundred dollars. My favorite piece of outdoor gear pushes the a hundred dollars Mark, pretty hard, but I think it's still worth it. It's trail running shoes. So, um, I've tried different brands. And so there, it just to kind of depends on what kind of, I think it all comes down to cushion. Yeah. I used to run barefoot, so I'm a minimalist. [00:49:22] I want as little as I can get on the bottom of my feet. I like to feel the ground and, uh, I don't run barefoot anymore. I think after 15 miles, that's not a smart idea. It's be hard on the knees, but here's what I find about trail running shoes. I wore hiking boots forever. And when I, my leg in three places, one of the breaks was the hockey puck hit my shin and then just kind of shattered the bone in every direction from there. [00:49:49] And so where a hiking boot rides up higher on your shin, that's a total no-go for that seam where rods and screws are inside my rebuilt Lake. Yeah, I can do it, but I don't like it. So I stopped wearing a high rise, hiking boot. And I had trout runners in my closet because I run trail. I started wearing that instead, and now I wear my trail runners when I'm not running. [00:50:14] My old pairs are my mowing shoes. I go through several pairs a year. And so, uh, the bottom wears out before the top. So I just following them. But I find that I'm also. Uh, we went scouting for elk a few weeks ago and I wore trail runners and we weren't, we weren't even on a trail and we were bushwhacking and I found a hole, the hole, I found like a moose graveyard. [00:50:38] It was like the whole remains of a moose and it's racking, everything. Wow. Totally undisturbed. And so we were way off trail and I was only in trail runners. So. A trail runner with a Gator guard to keep up the gravel. Yeah, I find is so versatile and works in so many situations. If I need to get in the river, they dry out quick. [00:51:00] So I picked trail running shoes because they. Are versatile way beyond trail. Yeah, no, I agree with you. I don't wear hiking boots, either stiff souls or any of that stuff. Nope. I wear lightweight and oftentimes trail running shoes just because I have really bad knees, but I agree with you. I mean, it's lighter. [00:51:16] It's, it's, you know, less work on your leg and if you can get a good trail running shoe, you get the support you need. So I totally agree with you. Yeah. And I would say that maybe with a heavy pack, you know, a multi-day backpacking trip where you've got your house and your back, or my camera pack on my back for extended time. [00:51:32] Maybe that's not the best idea with powered ankle support, but by and large, I'm doing fine without wearing a big, heavy, stiff, clunky hiking boots. My mother hit mom the same. Yep. Um, as we wrap up, is there anything else you'd like to say to our audience or ask our audience? I would ask you to do this. [00:51:52] Stick your feet in the river, any river, the closest one you can get to people say they don't have the access to the outdoors, but you know, don't you drink water and that water is coming from somewhere. It's fine. Flowing water and stick your feet in it. It just makes that connection to our outdoor world. [00:52:10] That much more important to you if you can connect with it. And that's a simple way to do it, you don't need a lot of expensive gear. You don't have to drive far. Yeah. But just find a way to connect. And for me, that's the sticking your feet in the water. Perfect. I love it. That's a good one. That should be a t-shirt. [00:52:24] Maybe I'll make a t-shirt and if people want to reach out to you, where's the best way. Where's the best place for them to find you the best way to reach willing to all your social? Yeah. We'll link to all your social feeds. Yeah. So the best way to find me would be to go through my company website, Tate line, media.com. [00:52:44] Okay, cool. We'll link to that in the show notes too. Well, it's been great talking to you. I look forward to seeing you at one of the OWA events soon, and whenever we, whenever we get back together, we will. That's coming. And if, and if there's an Orr, we got to do that, we should for sure. Make sure that there's an in-person event where we can actually see people we got to meet. [00:53:05] Yeah, we will connect. Definitely. Well, thanks, Chris. I look forward to letting you know when this goes live and, uh, talking to you next week on the webinar, maybe your next month, I guess he was on that webinar. Yeah, thank you. All right, thanks. Have a good day. Have a good holiday. Thank you for joining us. [00:53:21] On another episode of the outdoor biz podcast, be sure to visit our website, the outdoor biz podcast.com where you'll find show notes with links to everything we talked about and more subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. So you'll never miss an episode. And while you're at it, if you found value in this show, you'd appreciate a rating on iTunes or spread the word and tell a friend about the show that would really help us out to be sure to tune in every day. [00:53:50] And thanks again for listening to the outdoor biz podcast with Rick Saez.

Anatoly SpektoreCommerce Entrepreneur Notes: Started 3 years agoSelling 200k yearJungle Scout and Helium10Spent 10k on the first order buying Green BinocularsPickFu Sponsors: Drip – Get a free demo of Drip using this coupon code!Spark Shipping – Dropshipping Automation Software Links: https://www10millionjourney.comhttps://www.instagram.com/anatolyspektor/https://www.instagram.com/10millionjourney/ Transcript: Charles (00:00): In this episode of the business. E-Commerce I talk with Anatoly specter about his journey from zero to $200,000 a year, selling on Amazon. This is a business of e-commerce episode, 151. [inaudible] Welcome to the business of e-commerce the show that helps e-commerce retailers start launch and grow their e-commerce business. I'm your host [inaudible] and I'm here today with Anatoly specter, and it totally is a serial entrepreneur, six figure, Amazon seller, an it consultant, and the host of the 10 million journey podcast, where he shows his experiences scaling his Amazon business from 200 K to $10 million a year. And this episode, and totally gets really into some numbers on his business, which I think is super helpful. He does into when he started, how much it cost, some initial product runs, how much he's making today and where he's hoping to go and how he's hoping to get there. Charles (01:02): He's super transparent, which I think is very helpful when you're listening and taking advice, because a lot of it is contextual. If someone is giving you advice, you kind of need to know, is this advice for a new seller or someone doing a million a year? He kind of gives exactly what advice you would do at what step and what he has done. And I think it's super helpful. So let's get into the show and follow along right to the end where he gives some real helpful tips to both new sellers and also folks scaling the Amazon business. So Hey until you, how are you doing today? Amazing. How are you doing good. Awesome. To have you on the show. Your journey is super interesting. I've been doing some research about it and just kind of looking at talk about some of the numbers. So as far as an Amazon seller, and we're talking before the show and just kind of getting into some of those numbers, I think it's going to be super addressed in a kind of go into so real quick, you're an Amazon seller, right? That's kind of, that's your main focus? I mean, Anatoly (02:05): I like to call myself online through preneur and Amazon is the way I make sale these days. But yeah most of my revenue comes from Amazon Charles (02:14): And you're currently in you kind of, so you have a podcast and you talk publicly about the number is where you're at. Right? So that's yeah, Anatoly (02:20): Yeah, yeah. I created a podcast to sort of document my journey, how I scaled my business to $10 million. And I'm still in the process right now in the beginning, about 200,000. And I'm moving to a million who have charged me for that and then 10 million. So they'll come in to everything. I pick up brain. So other preneurs who are several steps ahead, or some of them multimillion dollars hundred million dollars businesses. And I just talk to them and pick up their brains to help me out and off. My last question is always, what can you give me as an advice I'm read here is how much you're making is what I'm doing. Tell me, and then they give me advice. So you're lucky. I'm pretty lucky first. Charles (02:55): Nice. yeah, it's a dual purpose podcast and you're helping other people, but getting advice. So I love that you aren't, so you're a 200,000 a year right now. And most of us like 90 plus percent is Amazon product sales, right? Anatoly (03:09): Yeah. Yeah. We do have a Shopify store, but it's like minimal because we were focused just on Amazon these days. Charles (03:15): How long did it take you to get there so far? Anatoly (03:19): So it was hit or miss.

Afternoons 3-6 on 105.9 The X The List - Mark was going to add all the "fans" bitching and moaning about the Steelers being screwed to the list. BUT. with the news of the game being pushed back yet again...the Steelers are getting the short end of the stick here. So HEY, RAVENS.... We take calls on the game being moved again and Mark talks about what he thinks should come down on the Ravens punishment wise. Andrew Brandt, the former NFL executive for the Packers and current columnist at the MMQB for Sports Illustrated joins the show to try and make sense of the mess this Ravens outbreak has made in the NFL schedule. Also talks some Chiefs and how the Steelers match up with them. ASK MARK ANYTHING!!

So Hey guys, in this video we discuss the importance of creativity, how much creativity is important to us as an individual, how much creativity is important for humanity and questions like that

In this episode of the Future Tribe Podcast, we had the pleasure of chatting with Ian Lindgren, an army veteran turned entrepreneur who currently owns and operates four companies here in Canberra. After suffering a career-ending injury during one of his deployments, Ian was forced to forge a different career path which eventually led him to create his first and most successful company, PayMe, Australia’s #1 payroll services provider.  As you can imagine, our guest has a bevy of knowledge regarding the steps behind starting a company and implementing a strong workplace culture. Additionally, Ian also shares how he and his wife are able to simultaneously manage staff across multiple locations who work in completely different industries. Later, Ian shares how he used many of the lessons learned during his time in the army to inform his business philosophy relating to areas such as competitor analysis and information gathering. The show concludes with our guest talking about the future of his businesses given COVID-19 as well as his commitment to using his success to help support the veteran community within Canberra. What we talk aboutOvercoming adversityDeveloping a strong workplace culture across multiple businessesCompetitor analysis and strategic agilityCorporate social responsibilityLinks from this episodehttps://payme.com.au/ (PayMe website)https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-lindgren-b15a93/?originalSubdomain=au (Ian on LinkedIn)Find us elsewherehttps://futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe Website)https://www.instagram.com/futuretri.be/ (Future Tribe on Instagram)https://www.linkedin.com/in/germainemuller/ (Germaine on LinkedIn)https://www.instagram.com/germa_ne/ (Germaine on Instagram)https://futuretheory.com.au/ (Futuretheory Website)Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript was generated automatically and as such, may contain various spelling and syntax errors[00:00:00] Ian: [00:00:00] So I started PayMe at home with, with no clients. I think within the first six months we had a $600,000 turnover. The next year it was 9 million and then 15 million. [00:00:11] Intro: [00:00:11] Welcome to the Future Tribe podcast, where we're all about taking your future to the next level, whether it is interviewing guests or unpacking strategies, you know, we will be talking about getting things done and backing you a fellow optimistic, go getter.[00:00:26] Ian: [00:00:26] And now as always. Here's your host, the formidable fortunate and highly favored Germaine Muller. [00:00:35] Germaine: [00:00:35] Hello, future tribe. Welcome to another episode of the podcast on this week's episode, I've got Ian Lindgren from PayMe, uh, how are you today, Ian? No worries. Thanks for joining. Yeah, it's a, it's a bit of a cold cold morning, um, in Canberra.[00:00:53] Um, but it's nice to be talking to someone who can sympathize. Uh, with, with what I'm feeling, [00:01:04][00:01:04] [00:01:00] hopefully, and then it will get too hot, but that's camera for you. Um, tell me, tell me a bit about PayMe before we get started. [00:01:11] Ian: [00:01:11] Oh, probably my Oregon pine mill is an accidental company. Uh, I don't really use it when I sit back and think about it.[00:01:20] It's a bit of a storage of it all yet. I had 20, uh, 21 odd years in the regular army. And then got injured and my last deployment to, um, Egypt and Israel, uh, area called the Sinai peninsula, which wherever I worked, I got injured in there. Nothing too bad physically, but it's effectively stopped me from working full time since the year 2000.[00:01:44] So it's a primer kind of came about, is that because I essentially had to work from home, uh, to do something I had to retire totally. Or do something. And, um, so I started, uh, PayMe at home with, with no clients. [00:02:00] Do you know about how to do or run a business? Uh, because I'd always been in the army. I think within the first six months we had $600,000 turn over the next, uh, year.[00:02:09] It was 9 million and then 15 million, um, thankfully corn grow that fast every year. Cause it would've given me a lot more growth, but yeah, it just boils down to some simple recipes and we've had a great time. I didn't stay inside a house and we've got a few offices around the country now.[00:02:31] What color contractors. [00:02:32] Germaine: [00:02:32] Yeah. That's amazing. So looking at your website, you are Australia's largest contractor payroll company. Um, have you stayed within Australia or have you thought about going across the pond so to speak? [00:02:46] Ian: [00:02:46] Uh, we have actually operated all over the world. Uh, certainly didn't, didn't, didn't, uh, uh, shy away from trying new business lines.[00:02:58] But what I found was [00:03:00] for very good reasons, the Australian unemployment and payroll market has a lot of regulation around it to protect people like you and me and, and, uh, Australia, those protections, they aren't there. And the rest of the world. So, for example, if I was speaking to an American company institution that someone needed to have maternity leave or, and that actually it was your responsibility.[00:03:27] If you suck, if you paid someone in Australia, if they ask for it, but they were entitled at these types of things, blew people away overseas. So in the end, I, uh, I didn't pursue that as mr. Lawrence, because the battles to convince people that when you operate in Australia, you've got to operate the way we operate too, like too, too large.[00:03:48] So they're having fun because there's no use working unless you're having fun. [00:03:55] Germaine: [00:03:55] Yeah, no, exactly. I mean, I'm having fun. Cause I think [00:04:00] that that funding means that you're passionate about what you're doing or you're at the very least you're enjoying what you're doing, which I think everyone should, should, um, aim to do.[00:04:07] Cause that's when you, I think do your best work because if you're not really having fun or enjoying what you're doing, then there's probably something else that you should be doing that. Um, [00:04:17] Ian: [00:04:17] and you can learn some, some huge lessons from that in business as your business grows, and people do business with people they trust.[00:04:27] Um, if you have trust. You have fun and you're really enjoy supporting each other. [00:04:32] Germaine: [00:04:32] Yeah, definitely. And I think that that trust component is really important as well. I mean, you've been in business for a lot longer than I have, but, um, you, you do realize that it is all about trust. You can sign all the contracts and do all that fun stuff.[00:04:46] Um, but at the end of the day, if, if there's no trust in it, then, um, as I like to say, there's no point turning back to sheet of paper with some ink on it. Um, if, if. Everything was to fall apart because, because what's that going [00:05:00] to do at the end of the day? [00:05:01] Ian: [00:05:01] Exactly. Exactly. And that affects the whole team, not just yourself, if you really have that kind of how you see that Cathy's, you've turned him at work.[00:05:11] Everyone feels the pressure, if something is. [00:05:13] Germaine: [00:05:13] Yeah. Yeah. And it sort of makes you feel like, like, so feature theory. My business. We're a, we're a family business. Um, my brother's involved in it and, you know, we, we try and sort of spread that, that family feel. And I, I just find that. Having that sort of level of rapport as well.[00:05:32] It just means that you're a, you're a unit and you're working towards a common goal and you're helping your, you want to help your customers and your clients, and they become part of the family. And you know, when they're doing it tough, especially given COVID and everything else that we're sort of experiencing at the moment, working from home.[00:05:50] Um, it's I think just. It really important that you bring back those probably old school, um, or, or, you know, someone call them old school sort of business [00:06:00] values, but, um, It certainly stood out to me as important. [00:06:04] Ian: [00:06:04] I think that is very true. Like your business, our business is a family business. Every single person in my family is in the business, including my daughter.[00:06:13] And it really truly is a family business across all four companies. Because it's a smaller company, a payroll company called just pies. And in order to protect ourselves and diversify, uh, w we have a car leasing company, uh, which is Pampers. I am in college and company, but otherwise just the marketing plug.[00:06:37] Um, but we also have a room. A recruitment company on a campus, all this recruitment companies go to effecting people, which we did quite a few years ago, but it just gives us the stability, the variety for the family members to, to operate in and make sure we've got some longevity. [00:06:55] Germaine: [00:06:55] Yeah. That's because you, you run the, [00:07:00] the four businesses together with your wife.[00:07:02] Is that right? [00:07:03] Ian: [00:07:03] That's right. Yeah, but Shane essentially for one of a better word and advice, and we have one external advisory. So that, to keep us honest, to ask what we're doing, we also, outside of that, we have good side of the same thing. That's I think very wise. So that done don't actually make errors.[00:07:27] Germaine: [00:07:27] Yeah, that's amazing. It sounds like a truly sort of family business. Now, when did you start all this? Was it in the early two thousands? Did you say? [00:07:38] Ian: [00:07:38] Yeah, after I got injured, I had about a year resting on my back cause I couldn't move and then I tried to work again, but I just, I just couldn't. And uh, although I tried to consult back into defense.[00:07:52] It just wouldn't work. So I started this January, 2005 with just myself and this office, [00:08:00] actually that I'm sitting in right now. And that's where, that's where I figured that I'd stay for them for the rest of my working life, because I was told about it. I wouldn't be able to work any further from a medical point of view.[00:08:12] Germaine: [00:08:12] Wow. Now, if you don't mind me asking. How old are you now? [00:08:17] Ian: [00:08:17] 58. [00:08:18] Germaine: [00:08:18] 58. Okay. So you were sort of mid to late forties when, when all this happened to you, what was it like? Did you have a feeling of having to start a fresh, having to start a new? Was, was that, was that sort of one of the sensations or are the things you have to get past?[00:08:33] Ian: [00:08:33] I always walk in it too. You know what, you know what it's like when you leave school, it's the best butterflies in your stomach? You know, you've got another career you guys are doing. That's essentially what I likened it to. It was, do I take this big step forward, uh, into something? And, um, do I back myself and I did.[00:08:53] More support me working full time in the public service. [00:09:00] And we went from there. I'm just following a simple recipe to what I thought was really important. Things that I've always just, you said before, the simple, old fashioned things in life sometimes are more effective than the more complex, highly theoretical ways that people were approach things these days.[00:09:18] I always think that a leader. Uh, if you are faced firm and friendly, you're a good leader. I'd probably get the word authentic these days, but that those are the things that I'm focused on rather than any greater theoretical approach to it certainly studied them. But that's, that's what it boils down to me.[00:09:38] Germaine: [00:09:38] Give us an idea across these four companies. Um, I know we were talking about PayMe. In, I guess, uh, with a bit more focused, but across the four companies, how many staff do you sort of manage? [00:09:51] Ian: [00:09:51] I'm not allowed to man. 20 eyes. So we have, I think 20 or 18 in Canberra. [00:10:00] I don't in Canberra across across three companies, uh, of deacon, um, more worse.[00:10:06] Men just size on a day to day basis. We have another  company spread between Canberra and Brisbane. And we have a manager that manages, uh, day to day basis, but, uh, three other day, but to start every day, uh, we zoom in and huddle with what we call huddle with everybody in the company. Every company runs to the same blade.[00:10:32] Oh, wow. [00:10:33] Germaine: [00:10:33] Okay. So across all four companies, everyone meets on zoom. Did you say every day, [00:10:39] Ian: [00:10:39] every day, [00:10:41] Germaine: [00:10:41] does that happen? Usually, [00:10:43] Ian: [00:10:43] uh, guys for guys for about 10, 10 to 12 minutes, and it's kind of the core focus of doing business for us, we follow what's called the Rockefeller habits, which is a habit. If you have a habit.[00:10:58] Then, usually it happens [00:11:00] every day. So a  ed, I stop at eight 45, where, where everybody zooms in and everyone goes across the three months important priorities that I've got to do today. Uh, the three or four, uh, interesting dot or that they, uh, that they had shaved yesterday. And perhaps I think probably the most important thing.[00:11:23] What are the stocks that are holding you back? And that could be stuck like the computer systems program or my husband's being a pain. If your partner's splitting apart. And just to give a bit of a laugh or it can be something serious, just boring as a team together, everyone gets synchronized and that can be things like, Oh, I haven't been able to communicate with a launch leasing yesterday.[00:11:46] I haven't been able to communicate with primate and it usually it's just a human factor and we just get over it on the spot sorted out and a sort of airflow and afterwards, and it gets the whole, whole group synchronized every day. [00:11:58] Germaine: [00:11:58] Really amazing and interesting. I've [00:12:00] never heard of that, that sort of approach to it.[00:12:03] And, and I can see the real benefits and no doubt. Um, it also, I think helps. Everyone operated as a family. Cause you're sort of sharing the things that are the annoyances, the little wins, the little, the little, you know, not so great things mixed in with, with all the, all the good stuff. Um, have you guys been doing that even before sort of this work from home COVID sort of situation that we're dealing with?[00:12:26] Yeah, [00:12:26] Ian: [00:12:26] we've been doing it since 2010 hours, so. Um, six to about 2010, I essentially ran the companies with the Milwaukee support and the team support and just did the best I could like anybody does. We all do our best. We all try to analyze, you know, how can we do it better? And like, most people, I was stuck in that rock of having a weekly meeting, which essentially goes over everything that we covered through the dots through the week.[00:12:57] And then we came across the [00:13:00] Rockefeller habits, which is based on John D Rockefeller and the way he did, he performed his daily functioning. And the way he started work every day was a team. He walked to work. Uh, with these senior executives and I effectively huddled, I told them, do we have the things that were going on?[00:13:17] Uh, and then they, then when I got to work, you know, talk to their, to their team members and everyone was synchronized. So that's essentially where we took that process up. And then it goes on from, you have this kind of, so the way you do business, you go de de de de. Uh, so you get the same process all through the day.[00:13:38] You get to Friday, and Friday's the day we, where you cover off on the key pieces of information that you might've heard of, uh, during that week, what the competitors are up to there. Um, you might, uh, I think mostly we do. So we have this, this routine is that  moms and  [00:14:00] where the quarterly meetings are actually even focused on signs.[00:14:05] If we stick to that. Everybody doesn't matter what company you're in, or even if you moved down to Canberra for a little while from Brisbane or from our Perth office, come to Canberra, you just synchronize rotting. You just realize that you're in the same office. [00:14:18] Germaine: [00:14:18] Yeah. That that's amazing. I mean, it's really that sort of, you used the word bait and I would say you sort of, your heartbeat sort of starts to sink and then, um, Without getting too sort of philosophical.[00:14:30] I mean, the, the staff are really are the humans buying a company are really the, the part bait of a, of a company. So you're just really synchronizing it all across the board so that, um, you are all on the same page, your you're sharing the wins, the failures. Um, and, and I think it gives a nice opportunity.[00:14:49] 10, 10, 15 minutes. Isn't a significant amount of time. Um, but it's enough that you can. Quickly rattle off any, any points. And then if someone has, you know, someone hears it and goes, [00:15:00] Oh, I know exactly what I needed to talk to Jermaine about when this happened to me six months ago, this is the approach that I took.[00:15:06] Or, you know, when, when X, Y, Z company, isn't very responsive, all you gotta do is call my, um, at, at regional whatever. And you just, just sort of solve those problems that. If you're doing that weekly, it starts to become this droning like 10 to 15 minutes is, is worst case scenario. Bearable [00:15:25] Ian: [00:15:25] was, there's an art to it.[00:15:27] You know, you should stand up because once people sit down, they get all relaxed and nice and comfy and cuddly and they tend to waffle a bit something it's just, boom, boom, boom. And you threw it. And then the day starts. And anything that, anything that was raised during the day, that's like a stock. Well, then you talk about Flon and of.[00:15:48] Germaine: [00:15:48] Yeah, definitely. I think, I think you can fall into the trap of sitting down and getting a coffee. That's warm. You know, you, you don't really want to get into the day. I need just end up. Oh, you know, if [00:16:00] we, if I rattle on for five or 10 minutes and then maybe the next person will, and that'll become a half an hour, 45 sort of minute excuse to not, not get your day started and just procrastinate, [00:16:10] Ian: [00:16:10] um, trust and things like that.[00:16:12] But I'm sure you'll ask me about that later. Trust is just so important and knowing everyone's strengths and weaknesses really just enhances it. [00:16:20] Germaine: [00:16:20] Yeah. That, that, that is something that I want to touch on. Now. That's why I asked you how many people you manage and you've got remote locations as well, or, you know, locations that are remote to where your base from.[00:16:31] So you've got 18 staff in Canberra based out of deacon. And then you've got, say another 10 spread out elsewhere. How do you. How do you manage what everyone's doing and how do you keep, keep on top of everyone's tasks? And, and especially as you sort of scale up, because when it was just yourself would have been very easy, cause you just check in chicken with yourself and make sure that you're on track.[00:16:55] And then what was sort of the next jump from that? So six months now that you said you're doing about [00:17:00] 600 K in revenue. [00:17:01] Ian: [00:17:01] Yeah. I think for me, the key thing is, is having the right staff. Staff that have the same core values as you so you'd know yourself from running a business, you tend to be the work.[00:17:14] Holly has been, people would characterize you as a workaholic. Someone, if you've got something to do, you don't. Go home at the end of the day, or you don't leave it on done. And, um, to find people that can actually work in the same way, even though they're not there yet is difficult. So for us, we, we, we, we, we have a set of core values.[00:17:39] The we, we, uh, we have one that's very simple, uh, uh, just, uh, just four of them. And, um, and from there, uh, we, we, we, uh, bring people along and trying them and we find that probably about. I mean one out of five people get through out our probation period because it's, [00:18:00] it's hard to demonstrate the same core values that we have the desire to know that the people out there that are using our services actually pay us.[00:18:09] So they're the people got no, no, no boss or, or anybody else. It's the people that you're giving them, giving, giving services to, because ultimately like, if you don't please them, then your business goes out of business. And your job disappears. So, so yeah, no, we, we, um, we focus on, on the core values, what people display, um, how, uh, how have their written expression, their, uh, verbal expression and, uh, yeah.[00:18:40] Yeah. And just willingness to, just to Gideon and do, do the jobs throughout the day and not just. Um, I'm not saying it's terrible clock watch, but you know, if you have a 1230 lunch break for an hour, you just have your lunch breaks throughout the day sometime. Because you never know when your clients are going to call up and need your help.[00:18:59] And if you have a [00:19:00] team member that's willing to just put the lunch down, uh, go and help them and then come back and finish their lunch and maybe take a half hour earlier off that day, because I missed the whole lunch period. That's a great private business model, you know? And it doesn't take away. I don't think it takes away from the fact that you're, you're, you're removing any of the satisfying for the payable because you were give to your time and they give to you on.[00:19:25] So that's a, that's a good team environment. [00:19:28] Germaine: [00:19:28] That's it. I think like you mentioned, especially given that given what, what services you guys offer, um, Australia is very legislated. There, there are a lot of rules and things in place to make sure that everyone's, it's it's fair. Um, and I think that's, that's a very good, um, but you shouldn't see it as sort of this rigid thing because, um, Just cause your lunch breaks from 1230 to one 30, like you said, if something goes wrong at 1225 and it's going to take you half an hour to fix it, you would hope that someone would fix that rather than saying, stop, [00:20:00] start at five minutes in and then say, okay, it's my lunch break.[00:20:03] I'm going to go fix the problem later, despite, you know, having started working on it and despite it being a clear issue that needs to be, [00:20:11] Ian: [00:20:11] and I feel that people should feel comfortable. To ask, because I think I've been in some places in my life where I haven't been comfortable to ask for time off. If I can remember when my wife had her second child and I asked my boss for time off.[00:20:26] And he said, no, when my wife had her second child, I was 20,000 kilometers away in Vietnam. So you don't have any time off go on and ride later. I didn't, I didn't agree with that. And I don't know. Yeah. We showed it to people. If you've got a swimming carnival on today for one of the kids that swimming carnival is never ever going to occur again, if your son or daughter comes number one to die, you're going to miss it.[00:20:53] So go and do it. But what we, what we just ask in return is just extra couple of hours, one [00:21:00] day or something simple, a real flexible model. [00:21:03] Germaine: [00:21:03] Just just make up for it. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't have to be, you know, as, as we were talking about it, doesn't have to be that rigid, you know? Okay. You, you miss out on this period of time, make sure that every, every hour is counter or gross else is going to come back and say, you know, Jermaine, what where's, that where's that 15 minutes that you should have given us?[00:21:21] Um, because that's not what it's about. It's about sort of collectively working towards this goal. And, and often it is just helping clients and, and, um, making sure that they're happy now. Talk to me a bit more about PeyMe. So, um, you guys do contract and contingent worker payroll. So are you a software company or are you [00:21:44] Ian: [00:21:44] not?[00:21:46] What we really are in simple terms is we're an outsourced payroll company. So I've used some industry language there, uh, and that's forum, uh, [00:22:00] optimization on the, on the, on the website. But really what it is is when I, a person goes to a recruitment company and says, for example, an information technology contractor goes through a recruitment company, gets a job site in defense.[00:22:15] Uh, quite often, these people are well paid.[00:22:24] They're experts in this field go like that would normally be high bar recruitment company. The recruitment company's core business is to place people in the job not to give complex payroll services. So if I, for example, need car laces, salary, sacrifices, salary, packaging, superannuation, salary, salary, packaging, and some flicks when they get paid.[00:22:49] And how do I get paid? Um, I requested services on the recruitment company app sources, the payroll to us, how they do that as a matter [00:23:00] of conjecture and probably out of the scope of today. But, uh, that's really what it boils down to is we're an answer was pyro company. [00:23:08] Germaine: [00:23:08] Right. Okay. So you, you effectively, yeah.[00:23:12] Just provide payroll services as, as just one sort of business system that is independent of [00:23:19] Ian: [00:23:19] exactly. And I know that it doesn't sound all that exciting. But, you know, from, from when you're an employee, uh, and you look around at your payroll element within your company, uh, you know, you just wait for your pay each week.[00:23:35] What we do is we act as the outsource payroll components for the companies that we look after and we have more contact with their employees on pay issues. Monday again, it's a routine go aside Monday morning. It's coming. If they talk streets on in him, then we text them, call them email, but usually call them, say, hello, Bob, haven't got your [00:24:00] time sheet yet.[00:24:00] And they might have some issues that the supervisor's not there. So they haven't gotten it approved proven company. In most cases, won't pay them that way. Because I used to be a contractor. So what we do is if we understand that the supervisor's not there, we still assure them that we're going to pay them.[00:24:20] Even though they are equipment company might not pay us. So it's, you know, the recruitment company, my past, the following week, it's either coming over those hurdles to that uncertain work arrangement that people have  and when we put some certainty back into it, so that they have a guaranteed payday. So it's Monday time shooting Wednesday, page six gallery up Friday morning.[00:24:47] If the money's not in the bank and Friday morning, when you wake up, you just call us. And we have it to you within 30, 40 minutes. [00:24:53] Germaine: [00:24:53] That's amazing. So you're essentially adding a layer of, of almost certainty, sort [00:25:00] of almost a certainty of being an employee in terms of your wages and what your, what your benefits are, but then, but then you're a contractor.[00:25:07] So I guess as a, as an employer, you, you get the benefits of not having the same risks or having, having sort of a different, different profile. Um, so it's sort of. Um, basically someone who works with you, uh, with PayMe gets, gets the best of both worlds. Cause contractors generally have higher, higher pay rates, but then, um, intern, you know, you, you lose X, Y, Z employee benefits.[00:25:31] So that's really interesting. I didn't, I didn't realize that there was a market, um, to what you guys do. Um, is it, is it quite a big market, which is [00:25:41] Ian: [00:25:41] Australia wide? And, um, we look after, at the moment, just under a thousand pieces, we pay it threats, right? Uh, we would probably four or 5,000 people, uh, but they do come and go.[00:25:57] Um, but at the moment, [00:26:00] and that's in every state. So we pay them on behalf of their employees. Yeah. I won't go into the boring, you know, uh, uh, legislative sort of the hospital. It's important. It is important that they know their employees. You know, we hide them on behalf of their employers and we, we quite often have such a Christ relationship with them.[00:26:22] Talk with them on the phone. Rather than just send them an email. First thing is talk and you're talking, I don't understand that Bradley family, everything else. And wouldn't, I've got problems like, you know, heaven forbid that we've had issues where it will have, uh, lost a partner. And they're suffering financial stress and they don't ask for their employer for some help.[00:26:44] And we might just give them a couple of weeks worth of an advance. And so kind of look after yourself and then come back to us when you've come back to work and people like that. When those types of things happen, they stay with you. And they [00:27:00] value the fact that they might pay a little bit more for the service, but they have continuity of financial support.[00:27:07] Doesn't matter where they work. So we essentially act as a hub for them. And that might work for a site people for six months. Um, they might work for packs at another one of practices, clients, but timely is always paying them. Um, it's uh, so I want to go to one of my entire, in the same person that provides them with tech support for the year, then outsourced tax agent provides them that support, and we've had people using, using new services, even college.[00:27:42] And so there was a source since 2006. [00:27:45] Germaine: [00:27:45] That's that's amazing. So, um, you, you almost become, again like this, this friend for these people that adds a layer of, um, cause cause being a contract, I would imagine I've never been one, but you do [00:28:00] jump from six month contract to six month contract, a three month contract, and then there's you, you just become almost, um, this, this asset that comes in does what they need to do and then leaves that, that would.[00:28:13] Obviously make it difficult to build ongoing work relationships with people because you're just jumping from place to place. So you guys sort of adding that layer of, um, at the moment, as far as their pay is concerned and their tax and all that side of things. There's this regular contract. Who's. Um, and it sounds like you, you could almost, it's almost in your interest to continue to serve them rather than necessarily serving the, the employers so to speak.[00:28:40] So you can build [00:28:41] Ian: [00:28:41] this up. Cool. We try to focus on both. [00:28:45] Germaine: [00:28:45] Yeah, of course we really do, [00:28:47] Ian: [00:28:47] but you know, we have four core values. The first one is general. Contractors are our priority. Um, and then everybody is important, which includes their own employer, the [00:29:00] recruitment company, uh, actions speak louder than words.[00:29:04] So getting in there and personally helping women and growth through innovation, there are four core values. Keep it simple. And, um, and through that, um, certainly I think over the years is we've got more regulated in the Australian workplace environment. Oh, I've been mentor the industry, barristers employment, barristers, and I'm one of those people that really enjoys employment more and a, and contract law.[00:29:32] So it's very easy for someone that works in the contracting field to actually not know who their employer is to suddenly. They don't have work worker's comp insurance, for example, you'd think that wouldn't happen, but it does happen. So I tend to put myself out there, which can be a risk sometimes. Uh, but I, I let people know, uh, in my opinion, from alignment.[00:29:57] What is the appropriate way to go? [00:30:00] Personally, we started the Australian contractor community, which I don't think I've, I think he would know about this shit, but, um, if something was started just before, um, or just after cut of it, uh, just to let people know, have a central central location for where contractors can come and get.[00:30:17] Lyman advice on, um, uh, what is a country? What's, what's your employment status? What should your contract size? Should you have, are you an independent contractor or are you an employee boring stuff? Why not? But it's not boring when it doesn't work. All of a sudden when you're in low course, you need to know what's going on.[00:30:38] So, you know, I have that there, and it's a website which is Australian contractors. Uh, It's about 90% complete and it's also helping wherever we can find roles from, from some of our recruitment companies that we participate with. We're just about to stop putting them out there because, [00:31:00] uh, people are advertising roles much quicker and bypassing bypass is the wrong word, finding new ways to employ people, given that they've got reduced number reduced numbers of people at work.[00:31:13] So we're trying to help those employers, employees, anyone. Sounds like, wait. Yeah. I mean, I forget. It sounds like [00:31:23] Germaine: [00:31:23] you've almost got this theme of just, um, and you know, I, I guess I preface this with the fact that I think business exists to help him well, but it sounds like all your businesses are really there to help people and sort of genuinely help people, not in the way that, you know, Apple, for example, or.[00:31:39] Or an HP would believe that they're helping people by selling them the latest laptop for $3,000, or it may be, but I'm adding actual help, right. Necessarily yet, you know, showing you the latest, shiny object and, and selling it to you now. You've been in business for 15 years, um, across [00:32:00] four businesses, I'm sure it's, you know, 60 years worth of business knowledge that you've, you've managed to develop.[00:32:06] Um, what are the, what are some of the things that stand out to you as sort of mistakes or things that, uh, you wouldn't. Do again, or you'd give someone younger as a heads up, watch out for these things. Anything come to mind, [00:32:20] Ian: [00:32:20] what are the, what are the things that, um, what are the typical mistakes you can make or things that you wouldn't want to do again?[00:32:26] Huh? That's a good question. I think, um, I think the first one would be, uh, sharing that, you know, something, getting advice off of friends, uh, and thinking that it's factual. I think that that's important because you can even go to say a subject matter expert. And they'll give you the wrong advice. So I find having a three security degree examination of something is just so, just so important.[00:32:52] So I think that's the first aspect. Second aspect of doing business is [00:33:00] recognizing that you're going to fail sometimes. Uh, uh, not, not slitting your wrists when you do you just say, okay. Yeah, I've been kind of just invested, you know, X amount of time dollars and you're going to fly. I figure I'll give you a good example.[00:33:17] First I have a sales company. I support was an oil and gas company and providing them with payroll support. We grew them from now on in Australia. Two, um, I think 200, 214 or so 15 people throughout Australia and the world and gas industry and another 250 in Papa, new Guinea. And because we, well, you were bad before Diana died.[00:33:40] I worked at, in it anyway. We found that they couldn't work to the same boat because I didn't have employees that managed their contractors in the same way that we do so that when we needed to have, say, for example, a I time sheet and a, and an invoice to pirate on Tuesday. Oh, I didn't really write about that too much.[00:33:58] So I get to [00:34:00] the invoice to us on Wednesday. Well, when you move $4 million, I wait to pilot's people of magically appear between one bank account. Yeah. And the frustration that was caused, uh, in totally with us was so large, that idea that we really had to support people that were foreign foreign AI companies.[00:34:25] We're in Brooklyn, Australia, $23 million contract. One time we went from, I would just discuss again. And we said, Hey, wouldn't it be better if we just turned it off? So we did. The lesson we learned from that course, we put so much stress and we couldn't deliver on our brand promises of waking up a guaranteed payday on Friday because the people we were helping couldn't get us to the money and couldn't get us to Tom shirts so that we're leading them in the right time.[00:34:52] So yeah, picking the right people, you know, not knowing that you knowing that you will make mistakes and had to get over it. Is is [00:35:00] just as important as well. And, um, and I think, um, it would be one other thing I would say. And, uh, and that is. Um, being aware of the hall environment that you're working. It's just so easy to think of something and a little tiny, you know, you exist in the school little eco system, but you actually exist in a really, really big one.[00:35:22] And I guess the, the, uh, the outcome from that from me, We started with a small payroll company. We then we'll put our own leasing company in. Plus we acquired quite a recruitment company and it gave us that stability, uh, because you never quite know when legislation's going to change. So you don't think about legislation when you start business, what can happen, payroll tax, all the, all those types of things, how payroll tax impacts on you as you, as you move into different States and territories.[00:35:52] So, um, yeah, uh, looking at that holiday guy system, Miranda, the business that he got assisting and understanding it and [00:36:00] watching it very important. [00:36:02] Germaine: [00:36:02] I think some really good points there. I mean, talking about just the ecosystem story it's are the, or the, the, the a point there is that, um, it works both ways as well.[00:36:12] Sometimes I think people can get too, too held up on what is really in the grand scheme of things, a small problem, or a problem that. No one else actually thinks is as big a deal. Um, and quite the opposite as well. We can get so sort of, uh, lost in a, in, in your own world that you don't, you don't see what's happening around you and what's changing around you because, um, in business, um, you you've got legislation.[00:36:38] That's just one thing, you know, you've got your competitors, um, who are always looking to not necessarily beat you, but, um, at least a win, win more. Then they lose. So, um, yes, they're not sort of coming after you, but it's important to keep sort of that, that, um, sort of eye on everything that's going on now, speaking of competitors, do you, do you [00:37:00] guys have, um, sort of some, some clear competitors in the market or, um, and how do you, how do you handle that [00:37:07] Ian: [00:37:07] Australia?[00:37:08] Um, and when you actually good point, you made earlier on, you know, we are not, you know, the largest payroll company in Australia, Uh, um, because we don't employ anyone other than the, the, I don't know, on people within, within payment is let's just talk about paying money. I only employ my team in payment, everyone we pay, we don't employ every other payroll company in Australia.[00:37:31] They do that, but they also have a contract with say the government to supply labor and workforce. And therefore they're not a payroll company anymore. They're actually under the under, um, the various state legislation. They actually are in a light behind supplier. And that contradicts with the fact that you're providing.[00:37:50] Probably probably the people that they have been people in this business in the past, which undermine that relationship with the recruitment company and taken the part, the taken the, the [00:38:00] contractor or Y um, and themselves, which is not entirely full of, it's not stopped for integrity. It lacks, integrity so much.[00:38:09] So. No, I've actually just gone off. I've actually gone off on a tangent there for a second. Just the question [00:38:16] Germaine: [00:38:16] that's all right. Um, so we were talking about competitors and [00:38:20] Ian: [00:38:20] sort of, yeah, so I keep a fair on my competitors as to how they operate for anyone that's watched top gun, actually. Here's a good one.[00:38:30] Yeah. Yeah, you might've heard there's a, there's this we're getting inside the enemies decision cycle where you observe how they operate. Certainly it was explained well, and top gun, but, or something, something I learned in the military observe how they operate. You orient yourself to, to acting a different way, decide how you're going to act to the threat.[00:38:54] And then you, you, you, you act in a way that's faster. Then you can pay [00:39:00] this and then you do that faster and faster and faster and faster. Um, and that's a practice that we get into again, we're actually is we actually have a section called, we call it intelligence, um, competitors, competitors, intelligence, where we, we bring it up and we say, what are the competitors doing so that we can act, um, and not necessarily.[00:39:24] Um, put them out of business or anything, uh, but hit of them. Cause I don't like the term putting people out of business. [00:39:33] Germaine: [00:39:33] No, I mean, that's what your goal, it's not to, it's not to take something away from them. It's just to reinforce what you've got. I think that, you know, Um, it's it's, it doesn't have to, you know, they don't have to be the same thing.[00:39:46] You don't have to attack someone to, to beat them. Um, you don't even have to beat someone to be better and grow. Um, it's just about having that loop and, and, um, that's another definite benefit of that hotline because I think what [00:40:00] you're doing there is really, um, Thinking faster by meeting every day. Yay.[00:40:05] Um, where everyone else meets weekly or, or even quarterly what you're doing out, meeting them. And therefore, I would think you've got 28 people coming in with what they've heard, what they've, what they've been told, what their friends and family have come up with to getting almost, you know, um, hundreds of ideas.[00:40:25] On a daily basis or the potential for rather than every quarter. Um, I mean, I don't know about you, but, um, generally I'm so busy that I forget what I even had for breakfast yesterday. Let alone ideas to, you know, to mention to someone that at all, you know, XYZ is coming up with this thing. But when it's been done on a daily basis, You only need to remember it for 24 hours or it can be as simple as, Oh, did you see that TV ad for this company, um, where you wouldn't mention a TV ad in a quarterly meeting because it's a quarterly meeting, you've got much bigger things to talk about it.[00:40:59] It's probably a, [00:41:00] a full day event. So Hey, I think, I think you've got me converted and I think, uh, not, not that I was against it, but I think I'm going to talk to the team and sort of suggest that we meet for 10, 15 minutes every day. And. It probably even helps sort of at an individual level to come up with your, to do list.[00:41:15] Cause, cause yeah, otherwise they just end up working on just pointless names. I think you're [00:41:20] Ian: [00:41:20] spot on. And in fact, what we find is that if, if Maria and I don't get to work on time, uh, or if we get distracted, The team were already lined up in the, in the, in the board room, standing up ready to huddle. They just simply can't go without it.[00:41:34] It's something I look forward to every day. It's that exchange of information, ideas. And then, you know, we carry that on to having lunch with them every day. We all sit down where we can have a break and we break bread. I have lunch with them. And then on Fridays, when I started, you're usually a low, low pressure die.[00:41:53] We actually have a good team lunch and do some lessons, some professional development. And funnily enough, [00:42:00] yeah, I read the Cambridge, get to get the quizzes out of the camera Thompson and run through those. So we have a great laugh. [00:42:07] Germaine: [00:42:07] Yeah. Yeah. That is, that is, that is really amazing. And it just sort of brings in that, that family sort of vibe, um, it's almost like, um, you know, going up, I remember we used to do the, um, puzzles and all that stuff in, in the, in the newspaper and that's sort of something you do on a Sunday, and you're sort of bringing that to work on a, on a Friday, which is.[00:42:28] Which is awesome. And it's a nice sort of positive way to even get into your weekend so that your weekends, not, not so much de-stressing and, and getting prepped for another, another hard week at work. It's it's, um, you've got into that sort of nicer sort of mindset and moving into the weekend. Um, tell me a little bit about what you guys hope to do, do moving forward.[00:42:50] Um, Is it, is it sort of, um, business as usual, or are you hoping to do some, some, um, different, exciting things moving forward across the different companies? [00:43:01] [00:43:00] Ian: [00:43:01] We're, we're, we're planning on expanding and growing. Put the payroll company is solid for a moment. The payroll company's going very well. We have so much business.[00:43:12] We're actually slowing it down, coming in. And what we don't want to do is we don't want to over promise. And under deliver. So a car leasing business, uh, it's focused on Canberra at the moment. We're very lucky in Canberra where we've still got a good percentage of jobs of good hype. Anyone on any salary can benefit from having a college?[00:43:39] Uh, there's two ways to run a car the normal way, which is the most expensive. For most people like, you know, right. At least we'll be able to have a much more cost effective way to run a company. So we're going to be focusing on that. And of course our recruitment company, without in any way, addressing the people that are in pain, we're looking at.[00:44:00] [00:44:00] Uh, supporting other, other contractors and doing it and doing it in a while. I think this is really important doing that is legislative and legally, correct? So that the individual knows that they are our employee for short term period. Which finishes at the end of every, every, uh, engagement. I know that they're employed and they have that regular contact with us and regular PI and they looked after.[00:44:31] So I'm not saying that doesn't exist in the rest of Australia, but if you get around Australia cipher with a recruitment company and ask recruiters, who is the employer of contractors, you'll get an interview. You'll get an answer from everyone except me. We're not the employment. Um, the payroll usually employer.[00:44:49] Uh, but really if you control somebody you're higher and farther, you're the employer. [00:44:56] Germaine: [00:44:56] Yeah. Yeah. So especially in Australia with the, with the legislation in [00:45:00] place, you don't have to call yourself an employer to be the employer in the eyes of the law. Um, you can, you can give yourself whatever terminology you want.[00:45:08] I mean, even in a lot of cases, I think I've heard of a lot of contractors who are actually employees. If you look at the government, sort of the legislator definitions around it, just because you pay them, you know, for. Uh, in a different structure to, to what, what you would an employee, you for all intents and purposes, they're an employee.[00:45:30] You were just, um, illegally paying them as a contractor cause there's a benefit better for you. [00:45:34] Ian: [00:45:34] Exactly. And you know, we won't do business with people that want to say to a worker, go and create your own propriety limited company. And then we'll employ you. That that is contrary to the fair work act. And I'll tell people that and I can choose to believe it.[00:45:54] And then act within the war or if they don't believe it, got it. Someone else or that came, but I'm [00:46:00] not getting involved in something that's contrary to the law and puts that worker at risk. Um, so yeah, we're that philosophy is something that we're putting in across Australia, simple philosophy and it's just integrity.[00:46:14] And so we've got some ideas to expand, um, effective people and where they are business case. We're investigating those in the last week of this month with our key, our key leadership time, and also considering a couple of acquisitions, as you know, unfortunately it's a good time for acquisitions because it's not, not a good time for many businesses, but I think acquisition can help people keep jobs and can help delivering those services to people that would lose them.[00:46:40] If those companies went under. So w we see it as a good opportunity to do something, something more continue to help the community. And for us[00:46:51] is on the veteran community. Really functioning on the unique skills that veterans bring to Australia [00:47:00] to the workplace, I should say, and understanding how the older victim like me is quite comfortably looked after through veterans affairs. And the younger veteran is very, very frustrated. I'm not, I'm not getting through to.[00:47:15] To veterans affairs and another locations. And it's not, Nope, not through lack of trying, but I'm trying to identify why that communication isn't occurring without upsetting anybody. Uh, you know, it's just a teamwork thing. So, so they're, they're things we're putting out in our corporate social responsibility into, into, um, assisting veterans, having employment.[00:47:37] A understanding of it. I moved from the, from the uniform job into a SIDA, a contract role, and lightly one of their lighter initiative within the system was security clearances. So long as we've got a job for them to go to, we can assist them with security clearances, which in the past were quite hard. So yeah, no, it was what are your plan?[00:47:58] And, um, we've achieved [00:48:00] their five year plan every year that we've, since we first did it, which I think was about 2009. [00:48:06] Germaine: [00:48:06] That's that's awesome. I think, I think again, it's thanks for having a plan to help and assist with knowing where you want to go and where you're heading as well. I think having that, that plan always helps.[00:48:17] And I'm just touching on your point about the acquisitions as well. I think, um, rather than. You know, given that given the current climate for better or worse one, you can help a company that would otherwise go bust and then everyone else involved would, would suffer. But, um, also from, from the other point of view, you can acquire the Goodwill, the branding, the marketing, and the efforts that someone else has already put in, rather than going out there and having to expend a lot of energy and money, um, to.[00:48:47] True. You know, what is really a gamble to see if you live in, get, get to that same position that as someone has. So, um, um, I think a lot of people look at acquisitions as sort of this negative thing or, um, sort [00:49:00] of this, I don't even know, like, like a whale, just eating up the smaller fry, but. You've gotta look at it in the opposite as well.[00:49:07] Um, I've heard of people who, who are not in a space at all, who don't even have a business who just acquire a business because they've got the financial resources to, and get into business that way and then grow the business from there. So, yeah, that's really exciting for me. Yeah. [00:49:22] Ian: [00:49:22] Not something I went and looked, we manage it all centrally from here in Brisbane.[00:49:27] Because these days, and I think this is how we kind of, it, we didn't miss a beat. I think the only thing, the ball I was for wireless modems to, to help some people that didn't have enough bandwidth at the home, uh, our infrastructure was it's already in place to support remote operations. Yeah. Business continuity plan.[00:49:48] They did it. I've met people in Brisbane, the Brisbane river floods. So we've gotta be able to work at home people in Canberra. It's just the building burnt down. We'd have to offer right externally from home. So we've [00:50:00] always had that there and we've used it by the way and for, for real, with practices. So it worked well, and it also helps with acquisitions and expansions because you just bolt it on, continues to grow.[00:50:12] Germaine: [00:50:12] Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. Where can people find out more about you? And, um,[00:50:19] Ian: [00:50:19] I wave, so I play my group. It's just a very high level summary of the three companies, the three main companies. And it takes you, it takes you through to the websites. And of course likely I really can't get past that. The writing. The raw addict, uh, he, the stories about, you know, successes and failures and, and you can identify[00:50:40] just by going with a robotic and you'll be able to identify the personalities cause they, they, they fight and a little bit about them. A little bit about us. [00:50:49] Germaine: [00:50:49] Awesome. Amazing. Um, are you ready to roll? [00:50:53] Ian: [00:50:53] Okay. Yeah. [00:50:55] Germaine: [00:50:55] Awesome. Let's get into it. Um, so the top three books or podcasts that you [00:51:00] recommend[00:51:03] Ian: [00:51:03] I am, and I think the most important one to me is a, is a fiber it's called the five dysfunctions of a team. The second one is leadership in action by a general John Campbell. And the third one is actually the Rockefeller habit. So we've spoken about to die. Um, uh, certainly recommend reading the Rockefeller habits, but also attending a seminar that's put on by a trainer.[00:51:35] Who's the book itself. So that will dry. Uh, and you don't get some of the excitement that I enjoy out of it, but there are the three books. I regularly revisit [00:51:44] Germaine: [00:51:44] also, um, top three software tools that you can. [00:51:47] Ian: [00:51:47] I think the top three tools for me, firstly, a Microsoft office three, six, five, and SharePoint. It's the, no matter where you are in the world, you can get access and get access securely and [00:52:00] you can use it internally within the company.[00:52:04] Uh, the internet. Which is for those that don't know about intranet. So it's just a, a central place to, uh, to go, to, to define it. Um, the key pieces of information, the knowledge base that occurs within the company. So you don't have to find it. And all of the places that are usually hidden in a business and thirdly, as a strategic planning tool, Uh, you know, I look back on that every day, where was I supposed to go?[00:52:33] How am I getting towards it? There's three pieces of software that I can't do it. [00:52:37] Germaine: [00:52:37] What tool is that? Is that, is that a, um, tool that you guys have developed or is that an external sort of software that you've [00:52:45] Ian: [00:52:45] again?[00:52:51] Um, it's actually a company that works with the person that came up with the Rockefeller habits. [00:53:00] Um, so I can start the day every day. Well, by looking at, um, Uh, an electronic version of a huddle, uh, prepare the wait, uh, was the electronic recording. Um, but people said last week that have a guy into a chain so we can hold each other accountable in the long run are.[00:53:27] I wonder have core values in perpetuity. [00:53:33] Germaine: [00:53:33] Amazing. I didn't know such a thing existed, but um, sounds like a handy tool. Um, the top three mantras, you try and leave [00:53:40] Ian: [00:53:40] them. Increasingly people do business with people they trust. You've got to have fun doing business. If you go somewhere and see someone, uh, nothing in your hand, nothing in your head is a phrase we use.[00:53:54] And so you're always taking that book. And when you go and see someone otherwise, you're, you're not showing that [00:54:00] you've got an interest in what they're doing. And the last one is the fundamental thing to everything that we do within PayMe group unquestionable, integrity, [00:54:06] Germaine: [00:54:06] love it, love it. Um, and the last one, top three people you follow or study.[00:54:11] Ian: [00:54:11] And so I guess I'm a little bit old school. I like to look at what people have done and learn some lessons from them. So, uh, uh, I look at weary download. From from world war two and he passed away in perhaps the early two thousands. I can't recall now, but his characteristics, that's the interface for them and friendly, uh, something, uh, how near and dear the[00:54:38] He did a guy at each child was to help him play, uh, after the war second world war. Likewise. Um, major general, uh, Pompey, Elliot, who many people were in first off today. But if you were alive in world war II, you unquestionably will  the open more ANZIC, uh, uh, Memorial, some than [00:55:00] anybody else ever has sadly passed away, uh, for what's now and as posttraumatic stress disorder, sometime after world war one.[00:55:07] Um, when he was practicing his troop, these other professional, which was a lawyer, uh, but the, the, the, the stresses of losing people during the war, uh, and other things got to him and likewise, um, uh, John camp, uh, I did my initial training with. In the army. Uh, and he, he grew from being a private soldier, uh, to being the best of my knowledge.[00:55:32] Anyway, the only person promoted on the battlefield to mind in general, since world war two, uh, he was promoted to general. Um, Uh, in, uh, some of the recent campaigns and then came back to buddy Chase's army, but he was suffering bad posttraumatic stress disorder, and couldn't, uh, take up that role and he's near and I'm over in the army, of course, but he wrote, um, leadership and action and the, uh, the concepts and [00:56:00] ideas.[00:56:00] And that book don't just apply to military. They apply to anybody. And I think that that sums up him because a normal fellow, not someone that you'd always characterize as purely male. [00:56:13] Germaine: [00:56:13] Awesome. Well, that was a very solid top 12 at UN. Um, and thanks for your time and thanks for coming on [00:56:20] Ian: [00:56:20] places in your mind.[00:56:21] It's really been great on our Saturday. I enjoyed it. [00:56:23] Outro: [00:56:23] Thank you for listening to the future tribe podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review on your podcast.

I was a guest on the Meat for Tea Cast after my essay "Itch Itch Itch" was published in the stellar literary magazine of the same name earlier this year.Now I understand why some of my guests hesitate to post about our episodes. It leaves them in the position of writing to friends, family, and fans saying “Hey everyone here’s a conversation focused on ME! Awkward.With that in mind, Meat for Tea is a great magazine with a nifty podcast and host/publisher/editor Elizabeth MacDuffie and I had a long and enjoyable talk, for the two of us anyway.So Hey everyone here’s a conversation focused on ME!(and here's a link to the essay, which I read out loud at the end of the episode)https://psiloveyou.xyz/itch-itch-itch-8934f97ed7edStay Safe.Vote.BLMxox-Jamie See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Want to work with me? Send me a DM on Instagram @JamieMSwanson now! Buy The Power of Moments book by Heath & Heath (affiliate link) Hey, Friend. I just wanted to let you know that I had some audio issues with this podcast, but the content was so good that I wanted to share it anyways. So thanks for your understanding. [00:00:08]if you've got kids who are going to be home for either all or part of their school this year, no matter what kind of school you're doing, and you're trying to grow your business and aren't sure how you're going to do it all. I'm here to help I've homeschooled my six kids four years while also running a seven figure online business. [00:00:30] And I'm going to share my best tips with you in this episode. Good [00:00:34] Okay. Start by acknowledging how hard all of this is, no matter what you selected or have forced on you. I just want you to know that I get how hard this is and I'm here to support you in any choice you have made or whatever situation that you're in. So for a little background, for those of you who don't really know me very well yet, my kids are age 14, 13, 11, seven, five, and three. [00:01:31] And I've got how many years of homeschooling behind me as well as having done some public school. And so I know firsthand how hard it is. To start and grow a business while having the kids at home all the time. I also know that mom guilt feeling like you're never present enough with the kids, but you're not able to work as effectively since your attention is continually divided. [00:01:57] So the first thing before we even get into the tips, just try and let go that don't judge yourself over it. This is a pandemic after. All right. My goal here is to help as many people as possible to learn from my experience. So if you know any other entrepreneurs who are going to have kids at home, and if you find these tips helpful, it means so much to me. [00:02:22] If you could share this episode with them, once you're done, I'd love to help as many entrepreneurial parents as possible, and I need your help to do it. So here are my five best tips to help you grow your business while also doing school from home. So number one know that the first week of school sets the tone for the entire year. [00:02:44] So think of this, like our client onboarding. If you run a membership or you do a coaching program or something, you know that those first impressions after that by really shape a lot of their experience going forward. So spend some time to make this first week really fun and special for your kids. And I especially love to focus on positivity. [00:03:07] [00:03:07] The other thing I'd mention about that first week is if you're able to you ease into it, don't just suddenly go all in. And I have eight hours a day of school, which I never do eight hours a day for the record, in case you wonder, and really start to ease in and think of it as a transition. This is important. [00:03:25] Both for your kids. But also for you, not just easing into the transition, but having this really great first week, because if you can really set that tone for the rest of the school year, if you can get your kids excited about it. And if you can in place some of the things that I'm going to talk about in the next tip, it's going to run so much smoother for you. [00:03:48] Now, if that first week is a train wreck it's Oh, okay. Don't worry about it. Life goes on, but if you can, in any way, go above and beyond to make that first week really awesome for both you and the kids. It's just going to be way easier to keep them going, keep them motivated and to read, really succeed as the school year continues on. [00:04:10] Okay. So one other thing I'm going to mention here here is a resource. It's a book called the power of moments by chip and Dan Heath. And it's all about engineering, memorable moments in a person's life. Now I have found this incredibly helpful and insightful and helping me create moments that my kids will remember. [00:04:31] Forever, but it's also helped me a lot in designing experiences within my business that make my clients absolutely love and adore me and feel incredibly loyal towards me and help spread the word about my business. So it will have a double benefit. If you read the book highly recommended, you will come up with all sorts of great ideas for that first week of schooling from home. [00:04:56] And you'll find it's probably going to be something that changes how you interact with your kids going forward throughout the rest of life as well. And with your spouse or partner or anybody else that you really care about and want to create a moment for it's really awesome. So check out the book, power of moments by chip and Dan Heath. [00:05:14] I'll put a link in the show notes as well. All right. The second tip is to plan ahead and this is kind of like multiple tips all within one. Little heading that I didn't want to have like 13 different tips for you. but all of these are based on the actual school day with your kids. [00:05:34] So number one, create a routine. Now it's really easy when you're doing school from home, especially if you're homeschooling or have a lot of autonomy over your schedule, where nobody's telling you, you have to be somewhere at a certain time. It's really easy to just start that day later and later and later. [00:05:53] And all of a sudden, it's just a mess. It consumes your entire day. So I absolutely believe in starting school at the same time every day. And I even liked to create a school area that is where they just do school. And honestly, it's really beneficial for you to also create a work area. If you're working from home, that is the only place that you, you really work. [00:06:18] And when you're there, the family knows you're working. You know, when you're, and I know if you've got toddlers or babies or whatever, you can't always honor that, but as much as possible, that's where you do your work. That's where you have. this whole environment of productivity around you, even if it doesn't feel that way, cause kids are screaming in the background or whatever, you know, we've all been there. [00:06:38] Trust me. I'm there every day and I'm just. If you can make those spaces, it's especially great for the kids, because then they know that they're kind of quote unquote, going to school, even though it's not going to school. Now, when we first started homeschooling, we didn't have spaces that we could use for their homeschool. [00:06:58] And so our routine was every day to do school around the kitchen table. And so if anything was piled on the table, which I don't know how it's a magnet, but it always is right. So at the beginning of the day, we would make sure that everybody cleaned the table off. We started with a brand new clean table, pull out all the supplies. [00:07:16] We pull out all the stuff we need, and then we'd start our day in school at the table. Now that my kids are older, sometimes I'll let them go and do some of their different subjects in different locations. But generally speaking, it's really helpful to have a specific location for school and it gives them a little bit more of a separation between what school time. [00:07:39] And what's playtime, which is really helpful for kids in staying focused. You may also want to prep a whole lot of snack in advance. I don't know what it is about school starting again, but I swear my kids become bottomless pits. And so when I have, you know, a lot veggies, all cut up and prepped or a lot of crackers and stuff, it's ready to go. [00:08:03] And, you know, I don't have to think about it. I can just pull something out real quick. And there it is. I don't have to be like. Oh, gosh, what are we going to have? You're hungry again. You can't be hungry again. You just ate five minutes ago, , you know, the conversation, right. But when you have that, all those snacks prepped in advance, it's just easier. [00:08:21] And then the other thing I want to mention about this, just from a very practical standpoint, in terms of like planning ahead and how you're going to handle different situations to make it go smoothly, is that some days. How can it be really hard? And so don't be afraid to take a mental health day off. [00:08:40] Now I get the benefit as a homeschooling mama of course, the entire day, without having to be accountable to anyone else. So if you are using some sort of virtual school or there is somebody else that the children are accountable to, you should really view this as like a mental health. They, even if they're doing okay, because, you know, They are not going to learn anything when they are in a certain mood. [00:09:05] And if you can't turn that around, if they can't turn that around, it's just going to be a wasted day with nothing done. And it's going to be full of pain and fighting and arguing and whining, or just difficult stuff that isn't going to actually benefit anybody. And so you might as well take that day, find a way to refresh them. [00:09:24] If you have to give them the day off just to go out and play, whatever. I've just found that it doesn't matter how positive I am and how well I have followed the routine they follow been fed and whatever. [00:09:38] There are just some days that are really hard and they're just over it. And so giving them some space, not, you know, every day, not every week. But having a day here and there, that's really rare and saying, you know what, you're right. Let's turn this off. Let's do something really fun. That's super atypical. [00:09:57] I believe that that can be a really helpful and healthy thing for your kids. And sometimes all you have to do is like an hour or two of this activity, and then they can come back and they're reset and they're ready to go. So don't be afraid to do that when your kids really need it and you'll know, or frankly, if you really need it. [00:10:14] In fact, that's why I did one of my public school years was after we had Olaf, which is my sixth baby. He's three, he's my three year old, the year, right after we had him, I swear he broke my back. Like I love the kid, but something about going from five to six, I just, I was not capable. Of doing school that year. [00:10:35] Like I just knew that I wouldn't be able to do it well. And so we put the kids in public school for a year and it was totally fine. It was actually really validating because it showed me that they were way ahead, even though we do so much, many fewer hours than the public school. And, then the next year we went back to homeschooling. [00:10:51] So, you just know yourself, know what you can handle and not. And if you need to call them for a day, call it for a day. There's no shame in that. Okay. So the third thing piggybacks right off of that is to prioritize self care daily and even more regularly like quarterly. Okay. So this was really hard for me. [00:11:16] In fact, I didn't know, do self care for probably a good solid 10 years, maybe 13 years, because I always felt like it was really selfish. I always felt like my family had to come first. And my, you know, we had to make money. We had to pay the bills. I was super responsible person. All these things just sucked all the life out and I felt bad any time for myself. [00:11:41] And I've completely shifted that 180 degrees. Now I make sense of care, the most important part of my day. And I've had to figure out how to fit it into my schedule. I do it daily and sometimes it's just a few minutes here and there, sometimes it means taking a longer chunk of the day and getting out into the world, whatever it is for you. [00:12:03]honestly, sometimes for me, it's grabbing like a snack or some candy or a doughnut, which I'm not a big sugar person, but every once in a while, I love to have something like that. Something I enjoy and going and hiding in the closet in my bedroom and eating it alone. So I don't have to share it with my kids, which sounds crazy, but that can be self care too. [00:12:23] Like it's okay to have something you love. That's just for you, you know, maybe it's meditation or contemplation. I do that in the mornings. Maybe it's exercise for you every day. Getting out for a run. I know that's been a huge part. Of my self care this year in particular, especially as I've been training for an ultra marathon, whatever it is, try and get them daily. [00:12:45]you know, but also think about what can you do? We do weekly, monthly, quarterly. That really is going to help you be your best self. Because when we are rested, we can give from such a better place than we, when we are continually exhausted. And I especially want to speak to the moms out there. I know that. [00:13:05] There's this , weird, weird conditioning out there that says good mom is always, you know, selfless. We give to everybody, we are servant leaders and I fully believe in serving and I fully believe in being generous, but there's almost the shame around giving ourselves that same care and courtesy. [00:13:28] Can you imagine? How it would feel if somebody even cares for you one 10th of the way that you care for your children, right? Do this for yourself, make this a priority, do not feel bad about doing this. The thing that really got me started with self care, and it's not just going to a spa all the time or whatever, it can be all sorts of things. [00:13:49] I'll give you a couple other ideas in a minute, but the thing that really drove this, Tom for me, was thinking about my daughters one day. What I want them giving to such an exhausted in an overwhelmed level, what I want them living their life like that day in and day out, day in, day out. Okay. All for other people and never ever for who they were created to be what I want them to sacrifice their gifts and their passions and their talents so that they could be, something they feel like they should be, but that's completely draining them. [00:14:26], I would never want them to feel bad, taking a little bit of time to do the activities that they love. They bring them life and that make them a better mom that make them a better partner, whatever it is, make them a better person in general. Right. And so when I thought about it, that way, it's just like, Oh, why would I go way out of my way to do this for my kids, but never myself. [00:14:48] And so once I got over that, it changed everything in my life. It's been one of the best things I've ever done. you know, maybe for you, it's weekly wine with your girlfriends or a monthly or quarterly getaways, you just have to figure out what the, this means for you, but, okay. Do you know that one of the most, supportive things I have in my life that I consider it self care in some ways is connecting with a group of friends. [00:15:14] And I don't even need to have lots of time with them. I don't even need to see them every day or talk to them every day or whatever. But knowing that I have groups of friends that I can just send a quick little message over to and say, Oh my gosh, I'm struggling today. How are you doing? Or, you know, send help. [00:15:30] This is what's going on, craziness or whatever, and just have the empathy and the compassion and have them speak truth back into me and encouragement. It's so. Amazing. And I really did not pursue building friendships for years cause I was just too busy and I didn't prioritize self care and it's something I've gone deep into in the last year and a half and has changed everything. [00:15:55] So highly recommend that. if you go back in the archives, by the way, season one has some episodes about retreats and stepping away and creating space. And I don't have the episode numbers in front of me. Sorry about that. But if you go look, you'll find them. and I highly recommend listening to some of the benefits to that. [00:16:13] It has literally changed my life in the best of ways. Okay. So definitely prioritize self care on the regular, both at least daily, something small. also, you know, bigger things throughout time as you need them and schedule them or they won't happen. It's another tip. Schedule them in advance. All right. [00:16:31] Number four is as a business owner, it's really important for us to buy as much time back. As we can to work on our business. If we have kids at home all the time, it is going to make it much more difficult for us to get our work done. Because even if we able to work the same number of hours, the fact that we have the mental load of thinking about the kids being there or hearing them and knowing that they're there. [00:16:56] And the fact, you know, like it's just, it's heavier. It's always there, especially for us moms and maybe for some dads too, not a dad. So it's harder for me to speak to that, but. Especially as moms, it's really hard. I found it as a mom, really hard to unplug from hearing everything that's going on and paying attention to it, to really focus on my business. [00:17:16] So my attention is divided never as effective and efficient when I'm trying to work with kids in the background, even if they are fully entertained and behaving well, as I am, when I can leave my home where there's all sorts of triggers of things that need to get done, and the mental load is big. Right. [00:17:34] But if I can leave my home and have dedicated work, it is easily five to 10 times more effective and efficient. I get way more done when I can get out of the house. Okay. So, maximize the amount of work, only time that you have dedicated work hours and buy it back, if you can. And here's some ways you can do that. [00:17:53] So, number one, a free way to get more time is to ask a partner or a spouse, if they can. Set aside some time for you that is dedicated to working. Now, maybe that's a couple hours a day. Maybe it's just one hour a day. Maybe it's , an entire day, a week where you go and you just, you know, you find a park or something and you just work like mad and you get or done, right. [00:18:17] Whatever it is. If your partner, you have one can provide some really dedicated work time where you're just away from everything that is huge. the second thing you can do is it can actually hire a tutor to help the kids with school. There's a lot of teachers who are out of work right now, who would love to be able to help your kids through school, to make up some of the money that they've lost. [00:18:41] Even if they're doing virtual public school, having somebody there who can help keep them focused and make sure that they're doing during their homework and keep them accountable. We'll free up so much mental load, and we'll give you extra time that you can be working while they're working with their kids. [00:18:56] That's another thing you can do, right. Is hire a house manager. Now, this sounds weird, but they do, they can do things like laundry, cooking meals, basic cleaning. They can even do some nanny. Yeah. And childcare for you running errands. This is probably the most life-changing hire we ever made. And I fought this one for a long time because you know, we're not the kind of people who has, live in help or whatever. [00:19:22] And it doesn't have to be live in. Ours, happens to be living because we live super remote, but we have a full time house manager. And it's kind of like having another wife, which sounds funny, not like the relationship side, but like somebody to make sure that everybody gets fed and all the clothes, this is washed folded, put away the toys are put away. [00:19:42] So when I am home, I don't have to be focused on doing the mound of dishes. I can actually be focused on my children. So in the mornings I do my homeschool with them and work with them. And then I can go work in the afternoons and come home and actually be mom, instead of having to do all the chores and trying to multitask all the time, yeah, no idea how heavy that mental load is and how much that keeps you from doing your best work. [00:20:10] Until you have somebody there who's really on your team, who's happy to help you with all of those things. It's been nothing but a joy. I do teaching of the lessons and I give them their assignments, but she can help follow through to make sure they get it done. She's not doing any teaching, but, it's just changed so much. [00:20:28] I mean, if you can hire some childcare or a nanny or somebody to come in and watch your children, so you can get a little bit more dedicated work time. That can be great, whether full time, part, time, whatever, but also you may want to consider hiring more people on your team. If you haven't ever hired somebody for your business team, starting with a virtual assistant is a really great way to start outsourcing tasks that you definitely do not need to be doing. [00:20:54]maybe for a content repurposing. So for example, I hire somebody to take my videos and reformat them into blog posts, into audio, okay. Into summaries, into an email, social media posts and schedule them on all the platforms. So all I have to do is one single video and upload it. And then they do all the rest and it costs me like $30 a video to have all that content done. [00:21:17]it's a no brainer. It's absolutely. One of the best investments ever. And I buy back so much of my time, so I can do the stuff that actually brings things and money. Yeah. Instead of focusing on all those things that are simply processes that anybody can follow. growing your team and being willing to invest in your brand in yourself and my buy back your time so that you're doing the most important things will change. [00:21:43] So much. Now here's a big thing to remember. It don't be you afraid to invest in your business when you can leverage it to make more money. Okay. So I know that if you've been doing this yourself, and you're not making a ton of money yet, this can be really hard, but bright entrepreneurs who are successful, who are really growing. [00:22:04] No, that they're not wasting money. This is not an expense. This is literally an investment that will make them back far more money in the end, multiple times over because they're getting more work done faster. So they're getting more results faster, which means more money faster. And the rate of growth in terms of profit is almost always greater than what you're going to be paying a team. [00:22:33] And it should be if you're going to be doing this, it's called an ROI. If you're doing the whole team process, right? If you're making processes, people can follow. If you're really empowering them to do the work and not micromanaging running a team is a whole nother area of leadership. So that's something you want to hear more about and I have done it all wrong, but I've also done it. [00:22:54] All right. And then with this, COVID destroying my business. I've really pared back to like the barest chosen. I'm going to be rebuilding my team again, basically almost from scratch as this business grows. And so if you want hear more about that process, if you want to hear more about how to grow a team correctly, make the right hires all of those things. [00:23:16] If you could drop me a message on Instagram, just at Jamie M Swanson and let me know, that's something you'd be interested in. let me know. And I'll, I'll consider talking about that more. It wasn't something I was thinking about originally, but I know that this is an area that can really be an expensive mess if you don't know what you're doing. [00:23:35] And so I'd be happy to share some of those insights with you here on the podcast, if there's enough interest for it. Alright. So fifth and final tip that I would say is really, Get very good at leveraging the time that you do have and use it in a very focused way. Okay. So what I mean by this is, a lot of entrepreneurs who are even into the six figures, like, you know, one to $300,000 or less, they are doing so much stuff that really doesn't matter. [00:24:07], they're rebranding the website and they're, they're doing this and that. And the other thing, and they're posting and all the social media channels and near her busy, busy, busy, busy, busy, we've got these big, complicated businesses that are profitable, but they just can't keep up. And if this is you and you are just like, how am I going to do school and do all this stuff? [00:24:25] And my business is going to go into decline. It's overwhelming. It's absolutely overwhelming. And so. What you really need to focus on is the five to 10% of the stuff you do that actually brings in more income and grows your business. Now it can be easy to, I think he needs to do all this stuff, even vital stuff, right. [00:24:48] Starting over. I know so many people who are like, Oh, I have to grow list first before I can sell to them. And then there's me. Who's like, Oh, I've got 17 people on my list. 17 people on my list. That's not an exaggeration or an under exaggeration. It's literally seven. Yeah. Teen people. And I've made over five figures of income in the first 30 days. [00:25:09] We're not even at the 30 day Mark yet from the 17 people. Actually. It's not all from them. I just started selling it's people I attracted. Yeah. It's just, you don't need to have a big audience in order to start selling and making money. If you have a plan. No. How do I attract the right people? And how to position your product for them in a way that they want it. [00:25:34] Like when they see it, they're like, Oh gosh, yes, I actually do want this. And so you need to have a very concise, focused plan. That really is just the stuff that really matters. Right. This is another way of buying time back because you're not wasting it and procrastinate working on stuff that does not get you results. [00:25:52] Okay. second in terms of saying focused. Stick with what you are most aligned with and do most naturally, right. serve out of your strengths, not out of your weaknesses when we're doing something that is naturally easy for us to do. [00:26:09] It takes us way less time and we get way better results. Whereas when we do stuff that we're not as good at, but we feel like we have to do it. It takes us the longer, it wastes a bunch of time. We don't get as good a result. And so we really want to focus on the stuff that we are good at and go all in would those things. [00:26:28] And you'll find usually that the five to 10% of the stuff that gets results is this stuff that's naturally easy for you to do anyways. So it's a really great way to leverage the time you have. You also do not want to be second guessing. You plan create a strategic step by step plan and stick to it. You should always know what you're going to be working on this week. [00:26:49] What you're going to be working on next week. You should know any moment that you, you have to sit down and work without them kids without distraction. You should know exactly what you need to jump into and not be wondering. Gosh, what should I do next? Because then you're going to get sucked into some Facebook group or some podcast episode. [00:27:07] And talking to people or whatever it is you do to procrastinate. Right. For me, I connect with people cause I love to connect with people and I love to learn. So those are my two things that I do a lot of when I really am not fully clear on what I should do next, or I'm trying to procrastinate. I don't want to do it. [00:27:24] I know needs to happen next. Right. So when you have a plan and you're not second guessing it and you stick to it, You get it done faster and you don't waste your time on stuff. That's not going to bring immediate results. Okay. And then consistency here is key. And I just want to mention this. You'd probably know this already. [00:27:42] You're here. You're bright entrepreneur, but your business is going to suffer most when you're inconsistent and you stop showing up for some time. So you want to do everything you can do to avoid that. And this might be something that that's a challenge as you're doing school from home. Because they're just maybe times when you can't get to everything. [00:28:03] And so now before everything gets crazy or hopefully you're not in that moment right now, if you are just get started, get back on the horse. But as soon as you have a time really through where are the spots that are going to be potentially sticking and how can you plan to overcome them now and stay consistent with your content schedule? [00:28:25]making sure your contents schedule is actually, you know, bringing in the right people, creating the desire for your products and selling it, which we're going to talk about over the next few episodes. So Hey, you know, if you haven't subscribed yet, here's your hook, just subscribe, but definitely make sure everything is staying consistent because if there's a gap, if you become inconsistent, the numbers are going to plummet this podcast. [00:28:48] Fantastic example of that. As much as I hate to say it. But this was this podcast, seasons one and two were really a passion project for me. I didn't have a business plan for them. I was doing it because I love the idea of working or I'm doing a podcast CAS, and I wanted to share the stuff I was learning as I grew my seven figure business with other entrepreneurs because that's, that's my people, which is why it made so much sense for me to pivot into the entrepreneur space. [00:29:20] But now I am absolutely committed to consistency because the last two seasons as I would podcast for a while and the numbers would start to grow really well. And then they would plummet because I would just stop and I would stop for a couple of months or more and I'd stop in the middle of stuff. [00:29:37] Right. And it just kills any momentum that you've built. You've got to keep that momentum going and to keep the momentum going. You've got to have consistency. So. If you have listened to all this stuff, and you know that it's going to be rough this year with kids at home, and you want to figure out what your step-by-step plan is, what those five things, 10% of those activities are that are really going to bring you in the revenue and really what you're gifted at, what you're aligned with it. [00:30:09] I am so good at helping people figure out. Where their gifts are and how to really lean into them , if you already have something that sells, you're making some money and you want help doing that, you don't have to do this alone. [00:30:23] I would love to help you. I would love to do a clarity coaching day with you. And really set up a step by step plan so that you don't lose momentum so that you always know exactly what you should be focused on as you're moving forward and have this work time so that you can continue growing your business. [00:30:43] Even if you're schooling from home, you don't want to let that affect or hurt your business in any way. And I improve as a mom with six kids that you do not have to have this. Hurt your business. Right? I homeschool my children and have for years. So I know this from experience and I am so good at helping you figure out what you want, make a clear and simple plan for getting there. [00:31:09] Simplicity is everything, and I would love to help you get that. So yeah, if this sounds interesting to you, all you have to do is go into the show notes and find my contact information. and then message me and if I have any open spots, cause I'm only doing two per week at the most. [00:31:28] we'll set up a free 30 minute call where I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions about your business and really just make sure that we're a good fit. I want to see if I can actually help you do this because I would never want somebody to hire me that I didn't 100% feel confident. [00:31:43] I could, I mean that they would look back on this and say, that was the best investment in the business they made in a long time, because they made several times over their money back. Right. So, if we do this discovery call and we feel like it's a great fit, then we'll set up a clarity coaching day where we will spend a day together and create that step by step strategy for you. That's super focused. It's really easy so that you can follow it and grow it business as you school from home. So just head on over to the show notes and send me that message. [00:32:14] Now, if you're new around here and you found this helpful, we'd love it. If you'd subscribe, you know, tell all your friends who are entrepreneurs who have kids at home doing school, even if it's just part of the week, have them come listen to this episode. and also if you like this episode, it would be awesome. [00:32:31] If you would leave a review. I know it's the shameless ask. We all ask that. but I'm occasionally going to be reading them here on the podcast and I'd love to feature your, your review. Like this one that I just got recently from N D H Vaughn, which says five stars. I love Jamie's podcast. [00:32:48] I've followed Jamie for the better part of a decade. And I really love her podcast. I listened to a lot of podcasts, mostly entrepreneur and business related, and I really liked the helpful and real content she's putting out. I admire her ethics, her vulnerability, and her genuine desire to help others grow their businesses. [00:33:05] She's very knowledgeable and really fun to listen to you. Subscribe. You'll be glad you did. Thanks. N D H Vaughn for the awesome review and my friend, we are brighter together. The world needs us. So let's go and make it brighter.

Want to work with me? Send me a DM on Instagram @JamieMSwanson now! Buy The Power of Moments book by Heath & Heath (affiliate link) Hey, Friend. I just wanted to let you know that I had some audio issues with this podcast, but the content was so good that I wanted to share it anyways. So thanks for your understanding. [00:00:08]if you've got kids who are going to be home for either all or part of their school this year, no matter what kind of school you're doing, and you're trying to grow your business and aren't sure how you're going to do it all. I'm here to help I've homeschooled my six kids four years while also running a seven figure online business. [00:00:30] And I'm going to share my best tips with you in this episode. Good [00:00:34] Okay. Start by acknowledging how hard all of this is, no matter what you selected or have forced on you. I just want you to know that I get how hard this is and I'm here to support you in any choice you have made or whatever situation that you're in. So for a little background, for those of you who don't really know me very well yet, my kids are age 14, 13, 11, seven, five, and three. [00:01:31] And I've got how many years of homeschooling behind me as well as having done some public school. And so I know firsthand how hard it is. To start and grow a business while having the kids at home all the time. I also know that mom guilt feeling like you're never present enough with the kids, but you're not able to work as effectively since your attention is continually divided. [00:01:57] So the first thing before we even get into the tips, just try and let go that don't judge yourself over it. This is a pandemic after. All right. My goal here is to help as many people as possible to learn from my experience. So if you know any other entrepreneurs who are going to have kids at home, and if you find these tips helpful, it means so much to me. [00:02:22] If you could share this episode with them, once you're done, I'd love to help as many entrepreneurial parents as possible, and I need your help to do it. So here are my five best tips to help you grow your business while also doing school from home. So number one know that the first week of school sets the tone for the entire year. [00:02:44] So think of this, like our client onboarding. If you run a membership or you do a coaching program or something, you know that those first impressions after that by really shape a lot of their experience going forward. So spend some time to make this first week really fun and special for your kids. And I especially love to focus on positivity. [00:03:07] [00:03:07] The other thing I'd mention about that first week is if you're able to you ease into it, don't just suddenly go all in. And I have eight hours a day of school, which I never do eight hours a day for the record, in case you wonder, and really start to ease in and think of it as a transition. This is important. [00:03:25] Both for your kids. But also for you, not just easing into the transition, but having this really great first week, because if you can really set that tone for the rest of the school year, if you can get your kids excited about it. And if you can in place some of the things that I'm going to talk about in the next tip, it's going to run so much smoother for you. [00:03:48] Now, if that first week is a train wreck it's Oh, okay. Don't worry about it. Life goes on, but if you can, in any way, go above and beyond to make that first week really awesome for both you and the kids. It's just going to be way easier to keep them going, keep them motivated and to read, really succeed as the school year continues on. [00:04:10] Okay. So one other thing I'm going to mention here here is a resource. It's a book called the power of moments by chip and Dan Heath. And it's all about engineering, memorable moments in a person's life. Now I have found this incredibly helpful and insightful and helping me create moments that my kids will remember. [00:04:31] Forever, but it's also helped me a lot in designing experiences within my business that make my clients absolutely love and adore me and feel incredibly loyal towards me and help spread the word about my business. So it will have a double benefit. If you read the book highly recommended, you will come up with all sorts of great ideas for that first week of schooling from home. [00:04:56] And you'll find it's probably going to be something that changes how you interact with your kids going forward throughout the rest of life as well. And with your spouse or partner or anybody else that you really care about and want to create a moment for it's really awesome. So check out the book, power of moments by chip and Dan Heath. [00:05:14] I'll put a link in the show notes as well. All right. The second tip is to plan ahead and this is kind of like multiple tips all within one. Little heading that I didn't want to have like 13 different tips for you. but all of these are based on the actual school day with your kids. [00:05:34] So number one, create a routine. Now it's really easy when you're doing school from home, especially if you're homeschooling or have a lot of autonomy over your schedule, where nobody's telling you, you have to be somewhere at a certain time. It's really easy to just start that day later and later and later. [00:05:53] And all of a sudden, it's just a mess. It consumes your entire day. So I absolutely believe in starting school at the same time every day. And I even liked to create a school area that is where they just do school. And honestly, it's really beneficial for you to also create a work area. If you're working from home, that is the only place that you, you really work. [00:06:18] And when you're there, the family knows you're working. You know, when you're, and I know if you've got toddlers or babies or whatever, you can't always honor that, but as much as possible, that's where you do your work. That's where you have. this whole environment of productivity around you, even if it doesn't feel that way, cause kids are screaming in the background or whatever, you know, we've all been there. [00:06:38] Trust me. I'm there every day and I'm just. If you can make those spaces, it's especially great for the kids, because then they know that they're kind of quote unquote, going to school, even though it's not going to school. Now, when we first started homeschooling, we didn't have spaces that we could use for their homeschool. [00:06:58] And so our routine was every day to do school around the kitchen table. And so if anything was piled on the table, which I don't know how it's a magnet, but it always is right. So at the beginning of the day, we would make sure that everybody cleaned the table off. We started with a brand new clean table, pull out all the supplies. [00:07:16] We pull out all the stuff we need, and then we'd start our day in school at the table. Now that my kids are older, sometimes I'll let them go and do some of their different subjects in different locations. But generally speaking, it's really helpful to have a specific location for school and it gives them a little bit more of a separation between what school time. [00:07:39] And what's playtime, which is really helpful for kids in staying focused. You may also want to prep a whole lot of snack in advance. I don't know what it is about school starting again, but I swear my kids become bottomless pits. And so when I have, you know, a lot veggies, all cut up and prepped or a lot of crackers and stuff, it's ready to go. [00:08:03] And, you know, I don't have to think about it. I can just pull something out real quick. And there it is. I don't have to be like. Oh, gosh, what are we going to have? You're hungry again. You can't be hungry again. You just ate five minutes ago, , you know, the conversation, right. But when you have that, all those snacks prepped in advance, it's just easier. [00:08:21] And then the other thing I want to mention about this, just from a very practical standpoint, in terms of like planning ahead and how you're going to handle different situations to make it go smoothly, is that some days. How can it be really hard? And so don't be afraid to take a mental health day off. [00:08:40] Now I get the benefit as a homeschooling mama of course, the entire day, without having to be accountable to anyone else. So if you are using some sort of virtual school or there is somebody else that the children are accountable to, you should really view this as like a mental health. They, even if they're doing okay, because, you know, They are not going to learn anything when they are in a certain mood. [00:09:05] And if you can't turn that around, if they can't turn that around, it's just going to be a wasted day with nothing done. And it's going to be full of pain and fighting and arguing and whining, or just difficult stuff that isn't going to actually benefit anybody. And so you might as well take that day, find a way to refresh them. [00:09:24] If you have to give them the day off just to go out and play, whatever. I've just found that it doesn't matter how positive I am and how well I have followed the routine they follow been fed and whatever. [00:09:38] There are just some days that are really hard and they're just over it. And so giving them some space, not, you know, every day, not every week. But having a day here and there, that's really rare and saying, you know what, you're right. Let's turn this off. Let's do something really fun. That's super atypical. [00:09:57] I believe that that can be a really helpful and healthy thing for your kids. And sometimes all you have to do is like an hour or two of this activity, and then they can come back and they're reset and they're ready to go. So don't be afraid to do that when your kids really need it and you'll know, or frankly, if you really need it. [00:10:14] In fact, that's why I did one of my public school years was after we had Olaf, which is my sixth baby. He's three, he's my three year old, the year, right after we had him, I swear he broke my back. Like I love the kid, but something about going from five to six, I just, I was not capable. Of doing school that year. [00:10:35] Like I just knew that I wouldn't be able to do it well. And so we put the kids in public school for a year and it was totally fine. It was actually really validating because it showed me that they were way ahead, even though we do so much, many fewer hours than the public school. And, then the next year we went back to homeschooling. [00:10:51] So, you just know yourself, know what you can handle and not. And if you need to call them for a day, call it for a day. There's no shame in that. Okay. So the third thing piggybacks right off of that is to prioritize self care daily and even more regularly like quarterly. Okay. So this was really hard for me. [00:11:16] In fact, I didn't know, do self care for probably a good solid 10 years, maybe 13 years, because I always felt like it was really selfish. I always felt like my family had to come first. And my, you know, we had to make money. We had to pay the bills. I was super responsible person. All these things just sucked all the life out and I felt bad any time for myself. [00:11:41] And I've completely shifted that 180 degrees. Now I make sense of care, the most important part of my day. And I've had to figure out how to fit it into my schedule. I do it daily and sometimes it's just a few minutes here and there, sometimes it means taking a longer chunk of the day and getting out into the world, whatever it is for you. [00:12:03]honestly, sometimes for me, it's grabbing like a snack or some candy or a doughnut, which I'm not a big sugar person, but every once in a while, I love to have something like that. Something I enjoy and going and hiding in the closet in my bedroom and eating it alone. So I don't have to share it with my kids, which sounds crazy, but that can be self care too. [00:12:23] Like it's okay to have something you love. That's just for you, you know, maybe it's meditation or contemplation. I do that in the mornings. Maybe it's exercise for you every day. Getting out for a run. I know that's been a huge part. Of my self care this year in particular, especially as I've been training for an ultra marathon, whatever it is, try and get them daily. [00:12:45]you know, but also think about what can you do? We do weekly, monthly, quarterly. That really is going to help you be your best self. Because when we are rested, we can give from such a better place than we, when we are continually exhausted. And I especially want to speak to the moms out there. I know that. [00:13:05] There's this , weird, weird conditioning out there that says good mom is always, you know, selfless. We give to everybody, we are servant leaders and I fully believe in serving and I fully believe in being generous, but there's almost the shame around giving ourselves that same care and courtesy. [00:13:28] Can you imagine? How it would feel if somebody even cares for you one 10th of the way that you care for your children, right? Do this for yourself, make this a priority, do not feel bad about doing this. The thing that really got me started with self care, and it's not just going to a spa all the time or whatever, it can be all sorts of things. [00:13:49] I'll give you a couple other ideas in a minute, but the thing that really drove this, Tom for me, was thinking about my daughters one day. What I want them giving to such an exhausted in an overwhelmed level, what I want them living their life like that day in and day out, day in, day out. Okay. All for other people and never ever for who they were created to be what I want them to sacrifice their gifts and their passions and their talents so that they could be, something they feel like they should be, but that's completely draining them. [00:14:26], I would never want them to feel bad, taking a little bit of time to do the activities that they love. They bring them life and that make them a better mom that make them a better partner, whatever it is, make them a better person in general. Right. And so when I thought about it, that way, it's just like, Oh, why would I go way out of my way to do this for my kids, but never myself. [00:14:48] And so once I got over that, it changed everything in my life. It's been one of the best things I've ever done. you know, maybe for you, it's weekly wine with your girlfriends or a monthly or quarterly getaways, you just have to figure out what the, this means for you, but, okay. Do you know that one of the most, supportive things I have in my life that I consider it self care in some ways is connecting with a group of friends. [00:15:14] And I don't even need to have lots of time with them. I don't even need to see them every day or talk to them every day or whatever. But knowing that I have groups of friends that I can just send a quick little message over to and say, Oh my gosh, I'm struggling today. How are you doing? Or, you know, send help. [00:15:30] This is what's going on, craziness or whatever, and just have the empathy and the compassion and have them speak truth back into me and encouragement. It's so. Amazing. And I really did not pursue building friendships for years cause I was just too busy and I didn't prioritize self care and it's something I've gone deep into in the last year and a half and has changed everything. [00:15:55] So highly recommend that. if you go back in the archives, by the way, season one has some episodes about retreats and stepping away and creating space. And I don't have the episode numbers in front of me. Sorry about that. But if you go look, you'll find them. and I highly recommend listening to some of the benefits to that. [00:16:13] It has literally changed my life in the best of ways. Okay. So definitely prioritize self care on the regular, both at least daily, something small. also, you know, bigger things throughout time as you need them and schedule them or they won't happen. It's another tip. Schedule them in advance. All right. [00:16:31] Number four is as a business owner, it's really important for us to buy as much time back. As we can to work on our business. If we have kids at home all the time, it is going to make it much more difficult for us to get our work done. Because even if we able to work the same number of hours, the fact that we have the mental load of thinking about the kids being there or hearing them and knowing that they're there. [00:16:56] And the fact, you know, like it's just, it's heavier. It's always there, especially for us moms and maybe for some dads too, not a dad. So it's harder for me to speak to that, but. Especially as moms, it's really hard. I found it as a mom, really hard to unplug from hearing everything that's going on and paying attention to it, to really focus on my business. [00:17:16] So my attention is divided never as effective and efficient when I'm trying to work with kids in the background, even if they are fully entertained and behaving well, as I am, when I can leave my home where there's all sorts of triggers of things that need to get done, and the mental load is big. Right. [00:17:34] But if I can leave my home and have dedicated work, it is easily five to 10 times more effective and efficient. I get way more done when I can get out of the house. Okay. So, maximize the amount of work, only time that you have dedicated work hours and buy it back, if you can. And here's some ways you can do that. [00:17:53] So, number one, a free way to get more time is to ask a partner or a spouse, if they can. Set aside some time for you that is dedicated to working. Now, maybe that's a couple hours a day. Maybe it's just one hour a day. Maybe it's , an entire day, a week where you go and you just, you know, you find a park or something and you just work like mad and you get or done, right. [00:18:17] Whatever it is. If your partner, you have one can provide some really dedicated work time where you're just away from everything that is huge. the second thing you can do is it can actually hire a tutor to help the kids with school. There's a lot of teachers who are out of work right now, who would love to be able to help your kids through school, to make up some of the money that they've lost. [00:18:41] Even if they're doing virtual public school, having somebody there who can help keep them focused and make sure that they're doing during their homework and keep them accountable. We'll free up so much mental load, and we'll give you extra time that you can be working while they're working with their kids. [00:18:56] That's another thing you can do, right. Is hire a house manager. Now, this sounds weird, but they do, they can do things like laundry, cooking meals, basic cleaning. They can even do some nanny. Yeah. And childcare for you running errands. This is probably the most life-changing hire we ever made. And I fought this one for a long time because you know, we're not the kind of people who has, live in help or whatever. [00:19:22] And it doesn't have to be live in. Ours, happens to be living because we live super remote, but we have a full time house manager. And it's kind of like having another wife, which sounds funny, not like the relationship side, but like somebody to make sure that everybody gets fed and all the clothes, this is washed folded, put away the toys are put away. [00:19:42] So when I am home, I don't have to be focused on doing the mound of dishes. I can actually be focused on my children. So in the mornings I do my homeschool with them and work with them. And then I can go work in the afternoons and come home and actually be mom, instead of having to do all the chores and trying to multitask all the time, yeah, no idea how heavy that mental load is and how much that keeps you from doing your best work. [00:20:10] Until you have somebody there who's really on your team, who's happy to help you with all of those things. It's been nothing but a joy. I do teaching of the lessons and I give them their assignments, but she can help follow through to make sure they get it done. She's not doing any teaching, but, it's just changed so much. [00:20:28] I mean, if you can hire some childcare or a nanny or somebody to come in and watch your children, so you can get a little bit more dedicated work time. That can be great, whether full time, part, time, whatever, but also you may want to consider hiring more people on your team. If you haven't ever hired somebody for your business team, starting with a virtual assistant is a really great way to start outsourcing tasks that you definitely do not need to be doing. [00:20:54]maybe for a content repurposing. So for example, I hire somebody to take my videos and reformat them into blog posts, into audio, okay. Into summaries, into an email, social media posts and schedule them on all the platforms. So all I have to do is one single video and upload it. And then they do all the rest and it costs me like $30 a video to have all that content done. [00:21:17]it's a no brainer. It's absolutely. One of the best investments ever. And I buy back so much of my time, so I can do the stuff that actually brings things and money. Yeah. Instead of focusing on all those things that are simply processes that anybody can follow. growing your team and being willing to invest in your brand in yourself and my buy back your time so that you're doing the most important things will change. [00:21:43] So much. Now here's a big thing to remember. It don't be you afraid to invest in your business when you can leverage it to make more money. Okay. So I know that if you've been doing this yourself, and you're not making a ton of money yet, this can be really hard, but bright entrepreneurs who are successful, who are really growing. [00:22:04] No, that they're not wasting money. This is not an expense. This is literally an investment that will make them back far more money in the end, multiple times over because they're getting more work done faster. So they're getting more results faster, which means more money faster. And the rate of growth in terms of profit is almost always greater than what you're going to be paying a team. [00:22:33] And it should be if you're going to be doing this, it's called an ROI. If you're doing the whole team process, right? If you're making processes, people can follow. If you're really empowering them to do the work and not micromanaging running a team is a whole nother area of leadership. So that's something you want to hear more about and I have done it all wrong, but I've also done it. [00:22:54] All right. And then with this, COVID destroying my business. I've really pared back to like the barest chosen. I'm going to be rebuilding my team again, basically almost from scratch as this business grows. And so if you want hear more about that process, if you want to hear more about how to grow a team correctly, make the right hires all of those things. [00:23:16] If you could drop me a message on Instagram, just at Jamie M Swanson and let me know, that's something you'd be interested in. let me know. And I'll, I'll consider talking about that more. It wasn't something I was thinking about originally, but I know that this is an area that can really be an expensive mess if you don't know what you're doing. [00:23:35] And so I'd be happy to share some of those insights with you here on the podcast, if there's enough interest for it. Alright. So fifth and final tip that I would say is really, Get very good at leveraging the time that you do have and use it in a very focused way. Okay. So what I mean by this is, a lot of entrepreneurs who are even into the six figures, like, you know, one to $300,000 or less, they are doing so much stuff that really doesn't matter. [00:24:07], they're rebranding the website and they're, they're doing this and that. And the other thing, and they're posting and all the social media channels and near her busy, busy, busy, busy, busy, we've got these big, complicated businesses that are profitable, but they just can't keep up. And if this is you and you are just like, how am I going to do school and do all this stuff? [00:24:25] And my business is going to go into decline. It's overwhelming. It's absolutely overwhelming. And so. What you really need to focus on is the five to 10% of the stuff you do that actually brings in more income and grows your business. Now it can be easy to, I think he needs to do all this stuff, even vital stuff, right. [00:24:48] Starting over. I know so many people who are like, Oh, I have to grow list first before I can sell to them. And then there's me. Who's like, Oh, I've got 17 people on my list. 17 people on my list. That's not an exaggeration or an under exaggeration. It's literally seven. Yeah. Teen people. And I've made over five figures of income in the first 30 days. [00:25:09] We're not even at the 30 day Mark yet from the 17 people. Actually. It's not all from them. I just started selling it's people I attracted. Yeah. It's just, you don't need to have a big audience in order to start selling and making money. If you have a plan. No. How do I attract the right people? And how to position your product for them in a way that they want it. [00:25:34] Like when they see it, they're like, Oh gosh, yes, I actually do want this. And so you need to have a very concise, focused plan. That really is just the stuff that really matters. Right. This is another way of buying time back because you're not wasting it and procrastinate working on stuff that does not get you results. [00:25:52] Okay. second in terms of saying focused. Stick with what you are most aligned with and do most naturally, right. serve out of your strengths, not out of your weaknesses when we're doing something that is naturally easy for us to do. [00:26:09] It takes us way less time and we get way better results. Whereas when we do stuff that we're not as good at, but we feel like we have to do it. It takes us the longer, it wastes a bunch of time. We don't get as good a result. And so we really want to focus on the stuff that we are good at and go all in would those things. [00:26:28] And you'll find usually that the five to 10% of the stuff that gets results is this stuff that's naturally easy for you to do anyways. So it's a really great way to leverage the time you have. You also do not want to be second guessing. You plan create a strategic step by step plan and stick to it. You should always know what you're going to be working on this week. [00:26:49] What you're going to be working on next week. You should know any moment that you, you have to sit down and work without them kids without distraction. You should know exactly what you need to jump into and not be wondering. Gosh, what should I do next? Because then you're going to get sucked into some Facebook group or some podcast episode. [00:27:07] And talking to people or whatever it is you do to procrastinate. Right. For me, I connect with people cause I love to connect with people and I love to learn. So those are my two things that I do a lot of when I really am not fully clear on what I should do next, or I'm trying to procrastinate. I don't want to do it. [00:27:24] I know needs to happen next. Right. So when you have a plan and you're not second guessing it and you stick to it, You get it done faster and you don't waste your time on stuff. That's not going to bring immediate results. Okay. And then consistency here is key. And I just want to mention this. You'd probably know this already. [00:27:42] You're here. You're bright entrepreneur, but your business is going to suffer most when you're inconsistent and you stop showing up for some time. So you want to do everything you can do to avoid that. And this might be something that that's a challenge as you're doing school from home. Because they're just maybe times when you can't get to everything. [00:28:03] And so now before everything gets crazy or hopefully you're not in that moment right now, if you are just get started, get back on the horse. But as soon as you have a time really through where are the spots that are going to be potentially sticking and how can you plan to overcome them now and stay consistent with your content schedule? [00:28:25]making sure your contents schedule is actually, you know, bringing in the right people, creating the desire for your products and selling it, which we're going to talk about over the next few episodes. So Hey, you know, if you haven't subscribed yet, here's your hook, just subscribe, but definitely make sure everything is staying consistent because if there's a gap, if you become inconsistent, the numbers are going to plummet this podcast. [00:28:48] Fantastic example of that. As much as I hate to say it. But this was this podcast, seasons one and two were really a passion project for me. I didn't have a business plan for them. I was doing it because I love the idea of working or I'm doing a podcast CAS, and I wanted to share the stuff I was learning as I grew my seven figure business with other entrepreneurs because that's, that's my people, which is why it made so much sense for me to pivot into the entrepreneur space. [00:29:20] But now I am absolutely committed to consistency because the last two seasons as I would podcast for a while and the numbers would start to grow really well. And then they would plummet because I would just stop and I would stop for a couple of months or more and I'd stop in the middle of stuff. [00:29:37] Right. And it just kills any momentum that you've built. You've got to keep that momentum going and to keep the momentum going. You've got to have consistency. So. If you have listened to all this stuff, and you know that it's going to be rough this year with kids at home, and you want to figure out what your step-by-step plan is, what those five things, 10% of those activities are that are really going to bring you in the revenue and really what you're gifted at, what you're aligned with it. [00:30:09] I am so good at helping people figure out. Where their gifts are and how to really lean into them , if you already have something that sells, you're making some money and you want help doing that, you don't have to do this alone. [00:30:23] I would love to help you. I would love to do a clarity coaching day with you. And really set up a step by step plan so that you don't lose momentum so that you always know exactly what you should be focused on as you're moving forward and have this work time so that you can continue growing your business. [00:30:43] Even if you're schooling from home, you don't want to let that affect or hurt your business in any way. And I improve as a mom with six kids that you do not have to have this. Hurt your business. Right? I homeschool my children and have for years. So I know this from experience and I am so good at helping you figure out what you want, make a clear and simple plan for getting there. [00:31:09] Simplicity is everything, and I would love to help you get that. So yeah, if this sounds interesting to you, all you have to do is go into the show notes and find my contact information. and then message me and if I have any open spots, cause I'm only doing two per week at the most. [00:31:28] we'll set up a free 30 minute call where I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions about your business and really just make sure that we're a good fit. I want to see if I can actually help you do this because I would never want somebody to hire me that I didn't 100% feel confident. [00:31:43] I could, I mean that they would look back on this and say, that was the best investment in the business they made in a long time, because they made several times over their money back. Right. So, if we do this discovery call and we feel like it's a great fit, then we'll set up a clarity coaching day where we will spend a day together and create that step by step strategy for you. That's super focused. It's really easy so that you can follow it and grow it business as you school from home. So just head on over to the show notes and send me that message. [00:32:14] Now, if you're new around here and you found this helpful, we'd love it. If you'd subscribe, you know, tell all your friends who are entrepreneurs who have kids at home doing school, even if it's just part of the week, have them come listen to this episode. and also if you like this episode, it would be awesome. [00:32:31] If you would leave a review. I know it's the shameless ask. We all ask that. but I'm occasionally going to be reading them here on the podcast and I'd love to feature your, your review. Like this one that I just got recently from N D H Vaughn, which says five stars. I love Jamie's podcast. [00:32:48] I've followed Jamie for the better part of a decade. And I really love her podcast. I listened to a lot of podcasts, mostly entrepreneur and business related, and I really liked the helpful and real content she's putting out. I admire her ethics, her vulnerability, and her genuine desire to help others grow their businesses. [00:33:05] She's very knowledgeable and really fun to listen to you. Subscribe. You'll be glad you did. Thanks. N D H Vaughn for the awesome review and my friend, we are brighter together. The world needs us. So let's go and make it brighter.

So Hey guys, in this video we discussed Judging, you should judge or not and knowledgeable things about judging I hope you would like it ☺️ P.S. Hey Hi, guys, I am Ambidextrous Anmol I am the founder and face of Digital Psychology. We guys are here to spread awareness about psychology, to clear all the myths and misconceptions about psychology, to make the general public aware that how psychology affects their day to day life and how they can use psychology for the betterment and boosting productivity in their respective life. Through Digital Psychology we are helping people to make their life better. You can contact us at- www.ambidextrousanmol.com mail at- theambidextrousanmol@gmail.com Social media :-) Instagram- https://www.instagram.com/ambidextrous_anmol/ Twitter- https://twitter.com/Anmolpurbia?s=09 Facebook- https://www.facebook.com/ambidextrous_anmol-101136277900481/ LinkedIn- https://www.linkedin.com/in/ambidextrousanmol Website- https://www.ambidextrousanmol.com My Gears My mic- https://amzn.to/31WzU6y #digitalpsychogy #judge #judging

Hello and welcome back to Equity, TechCrunch’s venture capital-focused podcast, where we unpack the numbers behind the headlines.Your humble Equity team is pretty tired but in good spirits, as there was a lot to talk about this week. But, first, three things to start us off:First: Read this piece from TechCrunch's Megan Rose Dickey about Juneteenth and tech companies. This podcast is going out on Juneteenth, so before you hit play, please take a minute to learn more about the day and its significance.Second: Danny and Arman from the TechCrunch team have finally launched TechCrunch List, a huge effort to determine which investors are really willing to write early checks. You can find out more here.Third: Equity is now on Twitter. Follow us here or understand that you are not cool.All that said, here's what we talked about on the show: Epic Games is looking to raise a huge stack of cash (Bloomberg, VentureBeat) at a new, higher valuation. We were curious about how its lower-cut store could help it gain inroads with developers big and small. That part of the chat, the take-rate of the Fortnite parent company on the work of others was very cogent to the other main topic of the day:Apple vs. DHH. So Hey launched this week, and the new spin on email quickly overshadowed its product launch by getting into a spat with Apple about whether it needs to add the ability to sign up for the paid service on iOS, thus giving Apple a cut of its revenue. DHH and crew do not agree. Apple is under fire for anti-competitive practices at home and abroad -- of varying intensity, and from different sources -- making this all the more spicy.Upgrade raises $40 million for its credit-focused neobank.Degreed raises $32 million for its upskilling platform.And, at the end, our take on the current health of the startup market. There have been a sheaf of reports lately about what is going on in startup land. We gave our take.And that's that. Have a lovely weekend and catch up on some sleep.

Hello and welcome back to Equity, TechCrunch’s venture capital-focused podcast, where we unpack the numbers behind the headlines.Your humble Equity team is pretty tired but in good spirits, as there was a lot to talk about this week. But, first, three things to start us off:First: Read this piece from TechCrunch's Megan Rose Dickey about Juneteenth and tech companies. This podcast is going out on Juneteenth, so before you hit play, please take a minute to learn more about the day and its significance.Second: Danny and Arman from the TechCrunch team have finally launched TechCrunch List, a huge effort to determine which investors are really willing to write early checks. You can find out more here.Third: Equity is now on Twitter. Follow us here or understand that you are not cool.All that said, here's what we talked about on the show: Epic Games is looking to raise a huge stack of cash (Bloomberg, VentureBeat) at a new, higher valuation. We were curious about how its lower-cut store could help it gain inroads with developers big and small. That part of the chat, the take-rate of the Fortnite parent company on the work of others was very cogent to the other main topic of the day:Apple vs. DHH. So Hey launched this week, and the new spin on email quickly overshadowed its product launch by getting into a spat with Apple about whether it needs to add the ability to sign up for the paid service on iOS, thus giving Apple a cut of its revenue. DHH and crew do not agree. Apple is under fire for anti-competitive practices at home and abroad -- of varying intensity, and from different sources -- making this all the more spicy.Upgrade raises $40 million for its credit-focused neobank.Degreed raises $32 million for its upskilling platform.And, at the end, our take on the current health of the startup market. There have been a sheaf of reports lately about what is going on in startup land. We gave our take.And that's that. Have a lovely weekend and catch up on some sleep.

So Hey guys in this video I am going to share the knowledge of anxiety but I will also share my personal experience

So Hey guys this video we discuss perfectionism and perfectionist personalities. I hope you find this video knowledgeable and easy to use in your day to day life. Anmol

So Hey guys in this video I am talking about learning styles. The most common are visual, auditory, and kinesthetic. so what this learning style means and what are their impact on your learning and what is the best learning style which you can have for great learning or I should say to learn more. P.S. Hey Hi, guys, I am Ambidextrous Anmol I am the founder and face of Digital Psychology. We guys are here to spread awareness about psychology, to clear all the myths and misconceptions about psychology, to make the general public aware that how psychology affects their day to day life and how they can use psychology for the betterment and boosting productivity in their respective life. Through Digital Psychology we are actually helping people to make their life better. You can contact us at- www.ambidextrousanmol.com mail at- mail@ambidextrousanmol.com Social media :-) Instagram- https://www.instagram.com/ambidextrous_anmol/ Twitter- https://twitter.com/Anmolpurbia?s=09 Facebook- https://www.facebook.com/ambidextrous_anmol-101136277900481/ LinkedIn- https://www.linkedin.com/in/ambidextrousanmol Website- https://www.ambidextrousanmol.com #digitalpsychology #learningstyles #learning

Raitis PurinsHead Of Marketing at Printful Bio: Raitis is the Head of Marketing at Printful, one of the market’s leading print-on-demand/ drop-shipping business with more than 800 employees, and five fulfillment centers in North Carolina, California, Mexico, and Latvia. The company has fulfilled more than 15 million items since its founding in 2013. Raitis joined the team 3 years ago and has since then led the winning marketing strategy and execution and scaled the marketing team from 5 to 40 people. He is responsible for content marketing, SEO, PPC, CRO and affiliate marketing. Before joining Printful, Raitis has been growing his skills in various roles in digital marketing since 2011. In his previous role at one of the leading telcos in Latvia, he was working as Media and Digital Communication Manager where he was responsible for media strategy and coordination, as well as digital channel optimization. Sponsors: Drip – Get a free demo of Drip using this coupon code!Spark Shipping – eCommerce Automation Links: PrintfulRaitis Instagram Transcript: Charles (00:00): In this episode of the business of eCommerce. I talked with Raitis Purins about Dropshipping VS Print on Demand. This is the Business of eCommerce, episode 123 Charles (00:15): Today's episode is sponsored by drip, drip. It's of world's first e-commerce CRM and a tool that I personally use for email marketing and automation. Now, if you're ever in an eCommerce store, you need to drip a try and here's why. Drip offers one click integrations for both Shopify and Magento. There's robust segmentation, personalization, and revenue dashboards. To give you an overview of how your automation emails are performing, one of my favorite features of drip is the visual workflow builder. It gives you a super easy way to build out your automation, will visually see the entire process. It lets you get started quickly, but also build very complex automation roles. It's powerful, but also easy to learn. Unlike a lot of email tools that offer the same type of automation to get a demo of drip today, you can go head over to drip.com/boe that's drip.com/b O E now onto the show. Welcome to the business of eCommerce, the show that helps eCommerce retailers start launch and grow their eCommerce business. I'm your host, Charles Palleschi and I'm here today with Raitis Purins. Raitis is a head of marketing at Printful, one of the leading print on demand suppliers. I asked him on the show today to chat about the difference between drop shipping and print on demand. So Hey rod, it's how you doing today. Raitis (01:27): Good, how are you? It's glad to be on the show. Charles (01:29): Yeah. Awesome to have you on. Finally a talk to a lot of folks about drop shipping, but I don't think, I think this is a what, 120 third episode and it never actually talked to them about print on demand. So that's a, I'm pretty excited. So you're the head of marketing for Printful, right? Raitis (01:46): Yes. I'm head of mining at Printful actually joined the team a little bit more than two years ago. At the start I managed five people and now we almost 50 50 people doing marketing for Printful print on demand company. Charles (02:01): Yeah, you guys have been everywhere, so it's definitely you doing something right. I can definitely tell you that had a lot. So that's it. Thank you. Yeah, so and so you see a lot of folks kind of starting off. You have drop shipping all the time. That's kinda like, that's kind of everyone knows about that at this point. But I feel like print on demand, it's kind of a lesser known option. And we work with a lot of folks who are either just starting off the kind of use it or even much larger pretended man folks. And I don't even think a lot of people know that they're print on demand. They don't even know. That's a thing. So real quick just for us, just in case someone's watching, they don't even know what it is.

So Hey guys this is the video about Procrastination part 2. In this video, I will be discussing how to end Procrastination. P.S. Hey Hi, guys, I am Ambidextrous Anmol I am the founder and face of Digital Psychology. We guys are here to spread awareness about psychology, to clear all the myths and misconceptions about psychology, to make the general public aware that how psychology affects their day to day life and how they can use psychology for the betterment and boosting productivity in their respective life. Through Digital Psychology we are actually helping people to make their life better. You can contact us at- www.ambidextrousanmol.com mail at- mail@ambidextrousanmol.com Social media :-) Instagram- https://www.instagram.com/ambidextrous_anmol/ Twitter- https://twitter.com/Anmolpurbia?s=09 Facebook- https://www.facebook.com/ambidextrous_anmol-101136277900481/ LinkedIn- https://www.linkedin.com/in/ambidextrousanmol Website- https://www.ambidextrousanmol.com #digitalpsychology #procastination

So Hey guys this is the video about Procrastination. In this video, I will be discussing how to and Procrastination and what are the causes of procrastination, what is the technique used to end Procrastination. P.S. Hey Hi, guys, I am Ambidextrous Anmol I am the founder and face of Digital Psychology. We guys are here to spread awareness about psychology, to clear all the myths and misconceptions about psychology, to make the general public aware that how psychology affects their day to day life and how they can use psychology for the betterment and boosting productivity in their respective life. Through Digital Psychology we are actually helping people to make their life better. You can contact us at- www.ambidextrousanmol.com mail at- mail@ambidextrousanmol.com Social media :-) Instagram- https://www.instagram.com/ambidextrous_anmol/ Twitter- https://twitter.com/Anmolpurbia?s=09 Facebook- https://www.facebook.com/ambidextrous_anmol-101136277900481/ LinkedIn- https://www.linkedin.com/in/ambidextrousanmol Website- https://www.ambidextrousanmol.com #digitalpsychology

This is our series of #MythBreakingMonday 's and this was episode number 7 EP.7:-Are introverts enjoying Quarantine?

Show Notes: Speaker 1: (00:00) Hey Doc, welcome to the simplified integration podcast. My name is Dr. Andrew Wells and this is episode zero. There's always a story. Speaker 2: (00:11) Leonardo da Vinci once said that simplicity is the ultimate sophistication and I agree. You see the problem with the way that most consulting groups approach medical integration is anything but simple. In fact, it's the exact opposite. It's expensive, it's complicated and quite frankly it's exhausting. Enough is enough. There are far too many amazing integrated clinics that are struggling. Well, I'm on a mission to change that. What I've come to find from over five years working with integrative practices is that simplicity really is the secret. The old saying of less is more is true. Through a streamlined approach, I was able to create multiple successful seven-figure integrated clinics and now I'm going to show you how you can do the same. Join me as I share with you the secrets to successful medical integration and practice growth. Join me on a journey to greater sophistication through innovation. I'm Dr. Andrew Wells and welcome to the simplified integration podcast. Speaker 1: (01:08) Hey doc. First and foremost, welcome to the simplified integration podcast. I'm thrilled to have you on here and I want to give you a little bit of an introduction on where this podcast came from, why it was created, and most importantly, how you can get value from listening to this podcast. So when my wife and I first opened our practice, we started, we moved to a city in Western North Carolina and we live in the mountains and we moved here specifically to be close to the outdoors. And so I love, I love trail running. I love mountain biking, I just love to be outside. And I remember our first two years in practice, we look back and I can count on one hand the number of times I'd been running and biking and camping and being outside. Like we had literally no life outside of our practice. Speaker 1: (01:49) And really it wasn't just the first two years. The first two years were rough, but it was really the first five years we were so focused on our practice. We had like, we had no friends, we weren't going out on like my wife and I weren't going on dates. Like none of the stuff that we love doing because we're so focused on taking care of our patients and our practice. And that was like, that was number one. And after a couple of years I realized like, I really don't want to do that for the rest of my life. And I knew there had to be a different way. And that's why the simplified integration podcast was born. And so we tried, we tried everything in our practice. We, to give you a little background, like we ran a cash chiropractic office, we did medical integration, we did STEM cell therapy, neuropathy, weight loss. Speaker 1: (02:27) We even tried doing functional medicine. And so we had a lot of success and we grew multiple offices, but we also had a ton of failure. And I really want, the reason for this podcast was I want to share with you my successes and my highs, but also like we had some like bring you to your knees, uh, failures. And so I really want you to be able to learn from my successes and my failures so that you can implement these things simply into your practice, into your home life, to give you a better life. And that's why this podcast was born. Now I really want this to be interactive. So if you're listening, if you have a question, if you have a topic you want me to talk about, I would love to hear from you. Just send me an email@infoatintegrationsecrets.com. So info and integration secrets.com. Speaker 1: (03:09) So if you love me, if you hate me, uh, just let me know what you're thinking. I'd love to be this for this to be a two way street. Now, the format of this podcast, I'm going to be releasing an episode every week. Sometimes it's just going to be me. Sometimes we'll have some guest doctors and some, some thought leaders, uh, on the podcast so that you can, uh, I really want this to be relevant to you today in your practice and personal life. And I try to make these episodes as short as possible. So I'll give you some little bite sized nuggets. Most episodes are about 12 to 15 minutes long, so you can listen to this on your way to work. You can listen to this when you're working out or during your lunch break. So every week I want to provide you some amazing valuable content that you can use to make your life better. Speaker 1: (03:48) Now the first five episodes, uh, in this podcast are, is actually a series called the seven figure shortcut. So wanting to give you the overall arching philosophy and structure behind what we're going to be talking about. Uh, so you can really start implementing this stuff today in your practice. And this is all, this podcast is all about business strategy. So in chiropractic you have your clinical side and you have your business side. I love both, but there also should be a blend of those two. But I really get excited about the business strategy part. So that's primarily what we're gonna be talking about on this podcast moving forward and a little bit more about me. So I, I share with you, I love being outside. Uh, I also have a family. I'm married. I have two young boys. Uh, right now they're three and four years old and they're a blast. Speaker 1: (04:32) I'm a total like family guy. I love spending time with my kids. And that was like a lot of this change happened when my wife and I first had our family. And when I was growing up, like I come from a long line of entrepreneurs and my dad growing up was really never around. And uh, cause he was working, he was running a small business and he was like, he wasn't like a big part of my life growing up. And, uh, I remember I knew why he was doing that. And he, you know, thankfully provided us with, uh, you know, food, shelter, clothing, a good education. But I knew he was working really hard. And when we, when we first had our family, I realized that I didn't, uh, I, I recognize that my dad worked very hard for us, but I didn't want to be, uh, an absentee father. Speaker 1: (05:13) And so I wanted to structure my life where I could be really successful financially and help a lot of people, but also be there for the people who, uh, economy the most, my wife and my kids. And so that's like, that's where my passion comes from. That's really what I want to help you. And maybe you don't have a family. Maybe you do, but these secrets I'm going to share with you will help you in all areas of your life. And that's what I really get geeked up geeked out about. So that's, we're going to be sharing on this podcast. So Hey doc, thank you so much for joining us. I hope you find this valuable, this content very valuable and I look forward to sharing these secrets with you for years to come. Take care of you. See, we'll see you on the next episode. Bye bye. Hey innovators. Thanks for listening to the simplified integration podcast. The fact that you're listening tells me that you're like someone who loves Speaker 2: (05:58) simplicity. And the truth is those who embrace Implicity are some of the greatest innovators. So hope you got a ton of value from what we covered on today's episode. Be sure to subscribe and share with other docs that you feel could benefit from greater sophistication through simplification and innovation. If you've got specific questions that you'd like answered on this podcast or you've got specific topics that you'd like me to discuss, just shoot me an email at info@integrationsecrets.com that's info@integrationsecrets.com.

Zach sits down with the host of the Trill MBA Show, Felicia Ann Rose Enuha, in this special crossover centered around respectability politics. They discuss the importance of encouraging folks to embrace their full selves, noting that only in being your most authentic self can you really be your best at work.Check out the Trill MBA Show! Part 2 is on Apple!https://trillmba.com/episodes/https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-am-not-your-negro-respectability-politics-w-zach/id1361878040?i=1000440238742Righteous Discontent on Amazonhttps://www.amazon.com/Righteous-Discontent-Movement-Baptist-1880-1920/dp/0674769783Connect with us!https://linktr.ee/livingcorporateTRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? It's Zach with Living Corporate, and listen, we have a really special episode. We have a special--and I do mean special--co-host with us today. Please introduce yourself.Felicia: What's up, Living Corporate family? [record scratch]Zach: [?].Felicia: I can't help it. This is Felicia Ann Rose Enuha, A.K.A. the truest MBA you will ever know, and I am the creator, executive producer, and host of the Trill MBA podcast, where my goal is to help you survive and thrive in Corporate America by giving you the truth and being as real as only I can be. So I am super excited to be here with you today, Zach, because I love Living Corporate. I love everything you guys stand for. I love the content you guys are putting out for the people, and so thank you for this opportunity to hang out with you and talk that talk today.Zach: Nah. Definitely the privilege is ours, and we definitely love Trill MBA. You do great content. It was interesting, 'cause in our research trying to figure out, okay, who's doing what it is that we're trying to do, who's out here really trying to have honest, courageous discussions about non-majority experiences in a--in a workplace, and Trill MBA was really, like, the only podcast that we saw that was really focused on that, and it's interesting because we actually had a conversation, like, internally about even, like, progressing and, like, moving forward with the Living Corporate platform, because we wanted to understand if we needed to be here, right? But over time I think what we realized is, like, there's definitely more than enough space for any voices that are aiming to do this, and the fact of the matter is if I look across the entire podcast landscape and I can only see one, then, I mean, that probably means, you know, it needs a little bit more.Felicia: Yeah. We need all different perspectives, 'cause here's the thing. As black people, we are not a monolith. Like, what goes for one black person doesn't go for the other. Hey, guess what? Not all black folks are Christian. Not all black folks are Baptists, you know? You know, like, we're not all the same, but the problem is the media portrays us as that one black friend or that crackhead or that baby momma, and that's what it's been until recently, right?Zach: Until recently, that's true.Felicia: And so we have these stereotypes that we need to fight, and the only way to do that is for many more of us to tell our stories, you know, be real about what's happening to us in different aspects of our lives in corporate spaces. That's just one aspect of, God, so many.Zach: No, that's super true, and I think it's interesting. Even the way that, like, you're framing this, in which I agree, is--I think, like, our vibes are really different, right? Like, our core messages are the same, but our vibes are different. So, like, Trill MBA, you know, y'all are--correct me if I'm wrong. My impression is y'all have been focused on, like, the very visceral experiences of black folks and how to really shed off the BS and really be your full selves at work. Now, Living Corporate, we aim to do the same thing, but we're not just focused on black folks and the framing and the tone in which we take around certain topics are a little bit different, and one could even say it's almost like an exercise in respectability politics in the way that we go about handling our content.Felicia: Yes, which is what we're gonna talk about today, and--Zach: Segue king.Felicia: [laughs] Well, the thing is also, like, I'm very focused on black women, because that's what I know and that's what I understand, and the great thing is a lot of the things that happen to black women in corporate also happen to other non-white males in corporate, but I want to pick out the nuances for black women. So for example, white women in the workplace, they get up in the morning, they'll look in the mirror, and their concern may be, "Okay, does this skirt fit too tight? Because I don't want to draw negative attention or derail my career because I'm coming off too sexy at work," whereas black women look in the mirror and say, "Okay, do I wear my natural hair today, or do I need to put this heat on it and damage it one more again? What meetings I got today?" So it's the same experience in the root of oppression. It just shows itself differently, and that's what I want to bring to the forefront.Zach: It's more than appreciated and needed, but yeah, you're right. We're talking today about respectability politics, and for those--'cause we haven't really said this yet, but we're gonna say it now. So this is, like, a two-parter, y'all. So we're gonna have part one on the Living Corporate side, and then we're gonna have part two on the Trill MBA side. But we just want to kind of give some context in terms of just what it is that we're talking about. So I want to go ahead and give a quick definition of respectability politics, and it's interesting 'cause when you look up respectability politics--like, you, like, Google it, right? So there's a Wikipedia entry, and then there's a couple of, like, posts on Medium, and there's also an article on The Root, but there isn't, like, a super historical breakdown, like, within The New York Times or the Washington Post or even, like, The Atlantic. Like, it's not--it's not necessarily something that we just talk about and really explore it in-depth in the same ways as we have other, like, hot terms, hot button terms, but I do want to talk a little bit about it. So the term "politics of respectability"--I'm reading from the Wiki, y'all, so don't judge me. Ultimately, when you--when you look at the history of respectability politics, it really actually started from the efforts of black women aiming to distance themselves from the negative stereotypes that came with being black in their communities, and it aims to control or really set the terms of behavior to make sure that your behavior kind of adheres to norms, and those norms are typically established by the majority. Stereotypes typically, like, around, like, us being lazy or dumb or violent or immoral, and so a lot of times when you think about, like, respectability politics, think about the difference between Carlton and Will on The Fresh Prince of Bel Air, right? So, like, Carlton was, like, very quote-unquote articulate. He dressed--he did not, you know, sag his pants. He was a respectable guy. He was very intelligent, whereas Will was--he'd sag his pants, he'd laugh, he'd joke. He'd be all loud, you know what I mean? He was--he dated a lot. So, you know, he was not monogamous at all, and so, you know, that's where you see--you definitely see, like, a dichotomy there. And then it says--again, y'all, I'm reading off the Wiki. That's, like, kind of some of the background, but I'm also gonna put the other links in here around some of the other posts that we found, some of the other research that we found. There are research studies that associate part of the high burden of mental health disease for black Americans on assimilationist behaviors. So what does that mean? So the idea or the activity of us aiming to "act white," quote-unquote, puts a mental strain on us, right? Like, the idea that we need to adhere and just, like, behave in a certain way all the time, and that self-policing, that active self-policing, is mentally draining. Researchers Hedwig Lee and Margaret Takako Hicken argue further conversations about respectability politics should always consider the challenge of negotiating every day social spaces as a black American and how this impacts mental health. And then so really though if you want to--if you want to really read more on the origins of respectability politics, check out the book Righteous Discontent: The Women's Movement in the Black Baptist Church, 188-1920, written by Evelyn Brooks Higginbotham. And that's where the term was really coined and created, and it really, again, was to describe the social and political changes in the black community during this time. So this was transitioning from slavery. There was a movement that originated in the black church to really, like, almost reform the black image. This black image was one that was created through oppression, but it was the idea of having the right types of behaviors to be accepted as a functioning member of society. And you see that. Again, like, when you--I remember when I grew up, you know, when I was a little kid, there would be other black people who would be like, you know, "Y'all need to stop acting so black. Y'all need to act white." Right? Or if you're hanging out with your friends, your black friends, they'd be like, "You acting white," if you happen to do well in school or speak well or just reject--like, just reject slang or--it's like, "Oh, you actin' white." It's like, "I'm not acting white. I'm just--" I'm not acting white. Like, that is super problematic, but that's the idea of respectability politics. And then, like--look, so here you go. So y'all want another example? I'm about to say a bunch of buzzwords today. Black Lives Matter. So the Black Lives Matter movement is an example of a movement against respectability politics. The movement was motivated by the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. So we know the story of an unarmed teenager shot by a neighbor. In line with the growth of the Black Lives Matter movement, some celebrities who have typically shied away from the conversations about race have begun to engage the topic. And so we have, like, Shonda Rhimes as an example. Of course we have John Legend, but, like, there's--again, y'all, like, that's the idea. Am I making sense, Felicia? Or am I just kind of all over the place?Felicia: Yeah. I'm over here triggered that--like, that's why I'm like, "Oh, my God, yeah," 'cause I was that kid who was told in elementary school by my elementary school teacher--shout-out Ms. [Sledge?]. Well, I guess she might be married now. [laughs] But, you know, I would come to school and speak in black vernacular from home, and when you're learning, you know how to write sentences and how to write in, you know, "proper English," quote-unquote, you are told then at that point that how you're writing this is wrong. 'Cause I would, like, write things like, "What it is?" [laughs] "How you doin'?" You know? And the teacher's like, "How ARE you doing." "Oh, okay." And yeah, I caught on quickly, and I learned how to code switch without even understanding that's what I was learning to do. It became "This is how you talk at school, and that's how you talk at home." And so for me I also had a nickname, like many black people, and so my nickname is Lisa. And so at home I was Lisa, and at school I was Felicia, and so there began this whole psychological warfare of "Who am I?" [laughs] Or "Who do I need to be?" And always questioning that. So yeah, I'm triggered right now. [laughs]Zach: Well, it's interesting, right? 'Cause basically respectability politics, or adhering to respectability politics, says, "Look, for you to be treated better by those in power, you need to act this way," right? So you need to--you know, at work you need to dress this way. You need to say these things. Your work needs to look like this. Like, and it's so much about quality or even delivery. It's about the methodology of a thing and not necessarily the actual thing itself, and that--again, like, that effort to continue to self-police and tweak and adjust and consider every little thing you do can be genuinely, literally nerve-wracking, right?Felicia: It's dangerous.Zach: It's super dangerous. In my experience in my career, what I've seen is that a lot of times when you have, like, you know, employee resource groups or these types of groups that are, like, basically asking you to huddle around some aspect of shared identity--typically it's race--and for the black ERGs, what I've seen is really just a lot of conversations around respectability, right? So "Hey, when you come to work, you need to, you know, make sure you're dressing like this." "Don't be saying--don't use slang." It's just--it's a bunch of don'ts, right? It's a bunch of--it's a bunch of things for you to assimilate, and I think the biggest thing about respectability politics and just the whole concept of, you know, you need to act this way so that white people approve of you is, look, there's nothing you're going to do--there's nothing you're going to do that is going to dissuade someone from realizing that you're a black person, right? Now, in your mind, I guess if your goal is just to make sure you look like you're one of the good ones, I mean, I guess that's a choice, but ultimately nothing you're going to do is gonna stop them from remembering that you are not white. And it's interesting, because, like, when I talk to older mentors of mine who are the same age as my parents--they've done this for a little while. I say, "What would advice would you give me?" And they're like, "Look, the main thing you need to realize is you will not ever be one of them. Like, ever." Like, that's the--that's the feedback, and, like, that's what they've said over and over and over again is "Hey, you're not them, and you're not ever gonna be them." "So as long as you keep that in mind." He's like "Zach, you know, I know you're doing well and everybody likes you and blah blah blah blah blah, but, like, you're not--you're not gonna be them." And it was just--that hurt my heart. Like, for that to even be--like, for that to be--for that to be the advice that they gave me is--it hurts. Like, it's real, but it hurts. It's like, "Wow, okay." So--Felicia: Hold on. Let's unpack that.Zach: Hm?Felicia: Why does that hurt you and many people? Like, what is it about the fact that you will never be them that you feel--that makes you feel uncomfortable or you feel a certain kind of way?Zach: It's just--it's just sad. Like, it's just really sad, like, because a lot of times when you say, "Well, there is no--there are no races but the human race, and we're all one people," and all this kind of stuff, and it's like, you know, ultimately everybody wants to be accepted, right? Everybody wants to be accepted. So, like, when you're like, "Hey, I don't care what you do, you are always gonna be other. You're always gonna be different." And so it's the--the fact of me always being other and different isn't on its face hurtful. That's not the problem, but what is sad is that, like, the people that I'm talking to who are at the top of their respective fields, they are, you know, again, outside looking in, very respected and highly successful with a huge network of people that don't look like them--that ultimately even they, they go home at their end of their days, or they're in these situations where they still don't feel as if they truly are accepted and belong there. That's sad to me. It hurt. So that's what I mean when I say it hurts.Felicia: Yeah, and that's why I needed you to unpack that, because I didn't want it to be, like, you necessarily want to be them or want to be in the white boy club or want to be a white boy.Zach: [laughs] No.Felicia: [laughs] Right, I just wanted to make that clear.Zach: Definitely not. I'm very--I'm very in love with the skin God gave me. I'm happy with my culture and my identity. It's just more about, like, being other. It's just a different life. It's a different experience, and there's nothing you're gonna be able to do to really--to change that, and not that you should necessarily even want to change that I guess in terms of you being different, but it's just sad. Like, it's just sad to me that, like, I've met people who have been--I mean, they've been working for 40, 50 years. Like, they've been--they've really been putting in all this effort, and you would think at some point they would be truly accepted and truly part of the in group. And there's always gonna be a--there's always gonna be a bit of tension there in terms of "How much do you really belong?"Felicia: Well, and that's the thing, you're not. But we need to realize that that's okay, that it's okay to just live in your truth and be who you are, and I think what's so hard is that as human beings there is a need to feel accepted and to feel like you belong and that you have a place in the space that you occupy, and that rudimentary human need is expressing itself through the nuance of history and culture. You know, basically everything is the fault of slavery, but I think what bothers me the most is that you can't win in this situation of respectability politics because your mentors and those men that were telling you, "Hey, Zach, when you come into this space, you can't do this, you can't do that, you can't do this. You need to be this way." That isn't necessarily a rejection of who you are. What that is is survival, and so something that we have to give our ancestors the benefit of the doubt on is that the reason why they were trying to conform and assimilate is so that they can lessen the negative aspects of life that came from being so different and making white people uncomfortable. And so the idea is that if I show you and prove to you that I'm just as human as you are, that I'm just as good as you have claimed to made yourself to be, then you should treat me better, and you should just let me live, but that's the flaw in the thinking, is that you do this activity, you change yourself, you conform, but they will never see you as human. They will never see you as equal. They will never see you as them because the hate and the wanting to be in power and the wanting to be better than and more runs so deep through generations of the culture of Caucasians that you can do all the respectability politics you want, and it will get you so far--it will help you survive--but it won't help you thrive.Zach: It will, it will. No, it won't. And I think it's just--it's so interesting, because I would say, like, the most respectable person that we've ever seen on a public stage in our generation is Barack Obama, right?Felicia: Oh, God. Poor Barack.Zach: Like, Barack Obama is the most respectable person ever to respectable ever. Like, he is super--Felicia: But yet what I--and see, this is why I love Barack, right? Because, in a very rebellious way, he would let his blackness be known in public. So, like, when you see him greeting, you know, white people, and he's shaking their hands. "How are you doing? Hey. Good to see you. How are you doing?" And then a brother comes in that line, and it's a whole full dap up.Zach: I hear you. I hear you that there would be certain things he would do to let y'all know that he's--he is black, but what I'm saying is that when you look at his overall profile, like, this man has had--he always spoke very well. He went to prestigious colleges. Rarely cursed, like, in mixed company. He always kept his cool, right? Like, he was never angry. People used to complain about the fact that he didn't get angry enough. He dressed very respectably. But ultimately, people still talked to him crazy. People still called--people still attacked and degraded his wife. People still attacked and degraded his children. People still, you know, questioned his--questioned his competence and made a bunch of--a bunch of extremely racist statements. It was interesting, 'cause like, "Wow, man. This dude is the president of the free world. He's the leader of the free world, and yet he can't--"Felicia: He can't win.Zach: He can't win. He can't win. Like--Felicia: He can't win. Can't win 'em.Zach: I want to say like Ta-Nehisi Coates in The Atlantic said. Man, I watched this man, like--he said, like, "walk on ice and never slip once," right? Or something like that. It was like he was--he was squeaky clean, and yet, like--go ahead.Felicia: I was gonna say but then think about if Barack Obama had acted up half as bad--just as half as bad--as this fool, 45, that's in office right now. Can you imagine the David Duke-like person this country would have elected? Because I feel like the current person that holds the office of president--I can't even bring myself to call him president, but that thing in office right now, he is a direct result of Barack Obama's respectability politics and Barack Obama being this entity of a human that had to walk this tightrope line in behavior and manner and actions and, you know, trying to do the best he could with what he had, and they still hated him for it, and they just hated the fact that he was black. And because of that, it was like, "Well, this--" I ain't even gonna say it on your side, but you know what they called him, and now this is the--this is like, "Okay, we got rid of him. We're gonna fix it now," and then, you know, it's, like, swinging the pendulum all the way to the wrong side.Zach: Right. Well, you know, I believe it was in Martin Luther King's--I think it was either Where Do We Go From Here or the Letter from Birmingham Jail, but he talks about--he talks about white backlash to black progression, right, and he talks about the fact that, like, whenever there's something that happens where black folks make some type of progress in being more free, then the white majority--and again, for those who are listening, not every single white person. We're talking about the historical narrative of America--that there's some type of backlash, and I want to say, like, Van Jones--Van Jones, a couple years ago--as problematic as he can be from time to time--he used the term "whitelash," and that's what it is, right? And this is not a political podcast, right, but it's--to me, like, it's the biggest example to me of respectability politics and the narrative of, like, look, like, if they're not gonna listen to Barack Obama, with his very prestigious pedigree and vast intelligence, they're likely not gonna--they're likely not gonna feel you either. So, like, how do you--so then, like, the question to me then is what does it look like to reject respectability politics, reject respectability, and be your best self? Right? Like, that's really what I want to understand. I want to understand what advice it is we have for our listeners who--you know, who have--again, black culture, like, we--especially professional black culture is largely shaped by respectability politics. Like, you're gonna go and show up to these things. You're gonna talk a certain way. You're gonna not do certain things. You're gonna not have certain conversations. You're going to laugh at certain jokes. You're gonna laugh a certain way. You're going to dress a certain way. Like, because of respectability politics, because you want to fit in, and the point that you made earlier about, like, it's not to shame anybody. The origin of respectability politics and the origin of attempted assimilation is survival, right? And that translates today. Like, we act and carry ourselves in a certain way because we want to get promoted or we don't want to get fired or, you know, we want a bonus, or we want--like, there are things that we believe that respectability will earn us, will reward us, and so what I'm really curious about is that conversation. How do we encourage folks to be their full selves, right? How do we encourage people to fully embrace who they are and really be their authentic selves? Because only in being your most authentic self can you really be your best at work.Felicia: Right, and I think we have to really get honest with ourselves and understand that we're operating out of fear. And so this is something that I'll be touching on in my book. I'm working on a book right now to come out at the beginning of next year, and it's focused on career management for black women. And so one thing we've always been taught is that, you know, you need to show up in a certain way, and what I'm finding through my research is that the black women specifically that are doing very well in corporate America--so they're in the pipeline, they have senior-level sponsors. So their sponsors are CMOs, CEOs, CFOs, CIOs. Their sponsors are in the C-Suite, and they are being put into the succession pipeline for higher levels of leadership. Those black women are actually doing well because--they do something that's very unique in that they decide that they're gonna be themselves, but in addition to being themselves, they decide to share their story, one, and two, they also decide to bring their most positive self to work every day. So one thing they still keep I think from the realm of respectability politics is the idea that I have to fight against the stereotype of being the angry black woman. And I honestly think this is okay, because my grandma, she always told me "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, baby," and that holds true to this day. So when you come into an organization and you face those challenges and the stress people try to cause you, whether necessary or not, when you can come in with your happiest self, your most pleasant self, your most positive self, and still bring the critical thinking--push back in a way that's a win-win for everybody, you know? Tell people about you and who you are and your personality, which we've always been taught "Don't do that 'cause they're gonna use it against you later." When you make that change, that's where you start to see a resonating with the humanity of the people you work with that don't look like you, because now instead of being afraid of you they start to understand you as a human, and you're not just this black entity that they don't know and they're afraid of. And so that's the thing that we need to change. We need to focus more on relationship building and less on conforming and putting our heads down and thinking that our work is going to speak for ourselves, because work is only 10% of the equation in success. So you can do all the great work you want to. The mediocre white man is still gonna get your promotion. Why? Because he has relationships. And so we can now move from this idea of respectability politics, because it's dangerous. It's dangerous to our mental health. It's dangerous because it doesn't help us fight stereotypes the way we think it is. It's like you're trying to call the stereotype as wrong, and first of all, stereotypes are just generalizations that have a bit of truth in them. We all have a Cousin Pookie. Yes, it's true. He might not be named Pookie, but we all have him. You know who your Cousin Pookie is. I got a couple of--Zach: Every family has a Cousin Pookie. Every family, irrespective of race. Right.Felicia: But the thing that we need to get white people to understand is that our Cousin Pookie is their cousin Billy Bob or their cousin Ray-Ray.Zach: Correct. Exactly, yes. Everybody has one. Everybody has a problematic--like, a challenging family member. Everybody has problems in their family. There's--like, the things that are so negatively attributed to black culture and brown culture, those things are happening in all families, all communities, because life happens. Because life happens and we are all human beings.Felicia: Yes! And that's what we all need to understand. This idea of thinking that there's aspects of your life that will make you better than the next person next to you and somehow make them less human than you are, like somehow you're a better human, that's the crux of prejudice and racism and just all of these ideas of you trying to somehow elevate yourself on the backs of someone else, and in order to do that and to somehow keep your conscience, you have to dehumanize the person who you're standing on. And in this country it plays out around race, but, you know, this is a human problem, but the more that we use our intellect to recognize it and recognize that respectability politics was only a way for us to survive in white spaces, that that doesn't work now. And you can try all you want to. You're not going to win. Barack is a very good example of that, and so now what do we do? We tell our stories. We humanize ourselves to the world. We share our culture. We share all of it though. The fun parts, the sad parts, the raw, human parts, the elated, joyful parts, and that's how we start to shift in the minds of the next generations that we are not a people that you can continue to step on and elevate yourself, because we're gonna move, and you're gonna fall on your butt.Zach: And, you know, I'm really appreciative of this conversation. I mean, it's tough because when you think about--I was raised to really believe that "Look, if you just put your head down, you work really hard, you keep your business to yourself, you don't tell your story, then you're gonna go far." And it's like you said, that's not working now. Like, storytelling is the chief medium of connection, and it's growing to be that, especially in corporate spaces. Like, those who can best tell stories, those who can best connect the dots in a way in a narrative form. And not, like, in a bulleted list, but, like, truly how they communicate is effective storytelling. Those are the folks that are making an impact, and that's a different point of direction for us, and it's, like, very much so against the grain of what I believe we've been taught historically will keep us safe.Felicia: Right, but I want you to realize - everything that we've been taught was taught out of fear. So it was "I'm afraid for you to walk in this space, and I need you to keep yourself safe, and so, you know, these are the things you need to do," which is--I mean, but literally it was about life or death, right? Like, if you walked in and you looked at a white man in the eye, you could die, you know? And so respectability politics had its place, but I think now we need to move forward and realize it is a new day, and so for you, Zach, I would encourage you to be more brave, be more courageous, and take those chances that feel, like, risky, like, real risky, and go for it, because those are the--those are the things that get you promoted.Zach: Oh, no doubt.Felicia: When you go to the CEO and be like, "Hey, I'm Zach. I just wanted to introduce myself. How are you doing today?" Now everybody will be like, "You just walked up to the CEO with your black self? And what did you say?" Even your white boss will be in fear. But the thing is, when you do that though, you're humanizing yourself. You're humanizing this person who has this title, and everybody walks around on eggshells around [them,] and now this person wants to connect with you because you opened the door, and they're just humans. And so we need to figure out, as black people, how do we get comfortable in our own skin in the workplace to make those human connections with the white men that are old and stodgy and they have resting bitch face that--nobody ever calls out that old white men have resting bitch face, but, you know, like, how do you get past all of that facade and go talk to them and meet them and learn about them and ask them to learn from them and share with them the things that you know about their organization that they'll never see because they're the CEO?Zach: No, that's real. And, I mean, it's interesting that you'd say that, 'cause even, like--and I haven't really ever shared this yet, but, like, my promotion journey to get to a manager role--and I got promoted at my last firm, and I'm at a new firm now, a new consulting firm now, but it had a lot to do with me telling my story and putting myself out there and connecting and networking with fairly senior folks, and I don't--and I don't think it's exclusive--and I don't think you're saying this, and I recognize Trill MBA's focus, but it's a chance to--Felicia: It's for everybody.Zach: It's for everybody, right? It's for every non-white person.Felicia: It's for white people too--it's for white men too. Like, and that's the thing we need to realize. Like, in some way, respectability politics also plays out from an economic standpoint. So you will have poor white men whose narrative is "I was raised in the back woods of Alabama, and my parents scraped together enough money to send me to Alabama University, and so then I went to grad school, I got into Harvard, and now I've unlocked this world of elitism." And then they hide, you know, their hick family, you know? They feel like they have to fit into this elite people, you know?Zach: That's real.Felicia: So these things happen in different ways, but they happen to all of us, and so I don't want to deny anybody's experience. I just want to call out, "Hey, as black women, this is how this happens for us," in a way that humanizes us and in a way that you can understand.Zach: No, that's real, and so what I want us to do is I want us to go ahead and, for our listeners...Felicia: Oh, it's about to get real. [laughs]Zach: Check us out. We're about to go ahead--and you're gonna listen to part two of this conversation on the Trill MBA show. That's right. So, look, we've got, like, a crossover thing. It's really cool, right? Like, it's kind of like when you have--I don't know, what's all the shows on NBC? You got Law & Order, and then you've got SVU and, like, you know, all the characters kind of cross over. You're like, "Oh, snap. Oh, [?]. They're on the--" You know, so it's kind of like that for your podcasts. For the loyalists over on Living Corporate, y'all get to now hear me on Trill MBA and vice versa, you know what I mean? So it's kind of like that.Felicia: Yeah. You're the Olivia Pope, and then I'm gonna be Viola Davis. I always forget her character's name. I know that's horrible, but she is so ratchet on that show. Like, she killed people and everything, so I don't think--Zach: Oh, you're talking about How to Get Away With Murder?Felicia: Yes! Yes. You know, they did that crossover episode. Annalise Keating! I'm gonna be Annalise Keating, and you're Olivia Pope. So you all statuesque and, like, put together, white knighting it, and then I'm over here breaking laws 'cause I'm a rebel.Zach: Wow. [laughs]Felicia: So if you want to come over and hear us be real black, come on over to the Trill MBA Show, where--what we're gonna break down though, we're gonna give you tangible, tactical tips on how to combat respectability politics for yourself in your workplace over at Trill MBA.Zach: All right, y'all. Well, listen here. Thank y'all for listening to the Living Corporate podcast. You can check us out everywhere at Living Corporate. That's right. So if you Google--that's right, Google--Living Corporate, we'll pop up. We're @LivingCorp_Pod on Twitter. We're @LivingCorporate on Instagram. Livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com email address, and then we're living-corporate--please say the dash--dot com for the website. We're also livingcorporate.co. We're, like, all the Living Corporates dot whatever except for Living Corporate dot com because Australia is still holding onto that domain. So we're gonna have to see what's going on with the AU so we can get that domain, but yeah. If you have any questions you'd like for us to read on the show or anything you'd like for us to shout out, man, look, our DMs are open, okay? Twitter DM, Instagram DM, Facebook Messenger, and you can email us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. You can also contact us through our website, which I've already talked about. And make sure to subscribe to our newsletter through our website as well, okay? Let's see here. Shout-out to JJ. Shout-out to all the folks who are checking out the podcast. Shout-out to Trill MBA. You're gonna see us over on the next one. This has been Zach, and you have been listening to myself--Felicia: Felicia Ann Rose Enuha, A.K.A. the Trillest MBA you will ever know.Zach: JJ, drop the air horns right here. Yes, right on the outro. We're gonna put the air horns on here for my girl Felicia. Thank you so much. Thank y'all for listening to us. We're gonna be back. Peace.Felicia: That was so cool. [laughs]