Podcasts about Trayvon Martin

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College prez: "Trayvon Martin of the 1930s."

Author's Note: This writing was adapted from a series of conversations around race in America and edited as audio, recorded in 2020, right after George Floyd was lynched.. The podcast of this writing is the real thing, as it were.  What follows is edited text to clarify the narrators, absent the audio.  Please consider following the podcast associated with this newsletter and leaving a 5-star review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please subscribe to support high-impact content like this.The author, David Foster Wallace, described the experience of reading his novel Infinite Jest as intended to feel “tornadic,” like you're in the middle of a tornado. That's what the last several weeks have felt like.Protesters:"Racist ass police! No justice, no peace! F**k these racist ass police! No justice, no peace!""F**k these racist ass police!"Owen Muir, M.D.:I originally tried making this episode a linear narrative, but it wasn't happening. So, welcome to the tornado of racism in America. Buckle up.George Floyd spent 8 minutes and 46 seconds gasping for breath.  Police officers, some of whom were very experienced, knelt on his back...until he didn't breathe anymore. As a psychiatrist, I often emphasize how the words we use to describe someone's death have meaning. So, I'll say, you know, completed suicide, not “commit.” And George Floyd was lynched.Welcome. This is about anxiety, uncertainty, and existential despair. And I recorded the narration in one take because I wasn't, like, going to get it right a second time. So much of what we say about race is calculated, polite, and wrong. So I'm not going to try to do that tonight.Here we go.Sequoiah:"Yeah. My general reaction to all this is a little more, a little more extended. The, uh, f**k".Owen Muir, M.D.:That's my teammate. She is a TMS technician at the mental health practice we worked at together. She also works in the community with patients helping put their lives together, but tonight she's a field reporter on the revolution.Sequoiah:"I am a TMS tech, Winnicott coach, and black woman. Which seems very important right now. George Floyd, Say His Name.  George Floyd, Say his Name.So I just got home from a protest in Flatbush. Police would not let us pass. We were chanting with our hands up. And after a while, they decided to push the line backward. We resisted—we stood there with our hands up. They pushed us and pushed us, and when we wouldn't..."Owen:Now, as someone with a lot of white privilege, I'm outraged at hearing this, like, wow, this is fucked up. So I called another colleague in the special operations community, and I'm not using names in this episode for semi-obvious reasons, and I heard what he had to say.Master Sergeant:“The things that U. S. police forces are apparently fully within their legal rights to do, like, use tear gas, would literally have…been against the Geneva Conventions. It's an actual war crime. We cannot gas a civilian population.”Owen Muir, M.D.:The person I'm interviewing has over a decade of experience in the special operations community. He has fought and killed for our right to do what my other colleagues were in the street doing, peacefully protesting.Master Sergeant:"This is a perversion of what the United States stands for. We invade countries who treat their people the way that our police forces are on camera treating Americans "Sequoiah:"People started to back up, , and run and they then started to hit us with batons. , I fell. And then we reformed the line."Master Sergeant:"It's disgusting in a lot of ways."Owen Muir, M.D.:So when someone whose life has been dedicated to protecting our freedoms tells me they're upset with what they're seeing, I take that pretty seriously.Sequoiah:"Well, the other night, well, last night, when the cops and protestors were getting into, into fights and they were trying to, the cops were trying to push back the protestors, I saw them bring out the batons and, like, start attacking people...and each time they'd tell us to back up and back up and kept pushing us and pushing us. And finally, there was a frustration in the air, and people started to act out."Owen Muir, M.D.:Now, as a psychiatrist, my life has been saved by police officers on more than one occasion. I have been physically attacked in hospital settings.  The police have been called, and I have not died, and my colleagues have not died thanks to them. And this is Flatbush, Brooklyn, New York, and these people are black people. The Flatbush, at least the area I was in, is a predominantly black neighborhood.  So, look, Americans love the police.  They are a highly regarded part of society by many people, but that's not the experience for black America I have learned.Master Sergeant:“There are many things you can do in that spectrum that don't involve actively using force against a human being, which makes the process easier across the board. If I don't have to hurt somebody, the only thing that is hurting another person does for me is further endanger my Troops. "Owen Muir, M.D.:Now this makes sense to me because, having run the show in a psychiatric emergency department, where I have to protect myself, other patients, and violent people themselves from getting hurt, sometimes we use violence, but oftentimes we don't.Master Sergeant:"What started this particular instance has been four cops lynched George Floyd. One guy put his knee on the man. We don't do that to terrorists actively trying to kill us. ""George Floyd, Say His Name."Sequoiah:"It was at that point that they called in more backup and started to attack and arrest groups of gathered people from the neighborhood.”Owen Muir, M.D.:Police officers, when they're called to stand trial for the use of force, have a standard called the reasonable officer standard.I feel like I have to make it relevant for me--a white person—to watch humans being murdered by police and then people killing each other in the streets about it. There was an article I read about six months ago about yet another person being slammed to the ground, handcuffed behind their back, and suffocated to death by the police. I was shocked..that the person was white. Until I read several paragraphs down that he had schizophrenia. Oh, that's what made it okay. Reasonable officers can only be judged based on what someone would do in that moment of terror when they have to decide to use force.Sequoiah:"I was so emotionally spent and so exhausted. And then we saw marauding bands of police officers going down the street, just telling people to go home and attacking groups of people on the street.”"George Floyd, Say His Name.  George Floyd, Say His Name."Owen Muir, M.D.:Police officers are represented by unions. Those unions have spent 20 years bargaining for lack of accountability to protect, in their minds, their members. This means police officers have the right to huddle and discuss their stories before speaking to prosecutors. It means many other things.  But importantly, whenever any officer stands trial, the jury is instructed, per Chief Justice Rehnquist, to not use the benefit of 20/20 hindsight in judging their actions, but only what a reasonable, that is, terrified person, would do at the moment.Master Sergeant:"We have an entire job in the US military to validate whether or not we killed someone the right way."Owen Muir, M.D.:The court system is what's supposed to do that for police officers. But it doesn't; it just says, eh, it's okay.Master Sergeant:"That's an actual thing; we have entire organizational structures dedicated to the legality of murder."Owen Muir, M.D.:Killing black or brown people in America, if you're a police officer, has literally never been ruled against the law. Ever.Master Sergeant:"To not call it murder, to call it, to call it killing combatants, that's what a JAG does. Overseas, when they're deployed, they tell you whether or not you can kill this person. And sometimes, even though we can kill someone, we don't because they have a much higher value as an intelligence asset. Or for any number of other reasons. Or they're not actively shooting at us when we go get them. That happens a ton. Because sometimes, when you see 20 or 30 goons show up outside your house, breach your door with a shotgun round, rush in, and then point all their guns at you, you won't fight back. And then, okay, well, he's not shooting back at us, so we're going to take him in, and then... "Owen Muir, M.D.:You don't get to kill someone. In the U. S. military. Deployed in the field. In Afghanistan. Even if someone's a terrorist, if they're not pointing a gun at you and about to pull the goddamn trigger.“Cause one of the things I don't want to do is vilify police officers. And, and ...”Master Sergeant:"I mean, Owen, to be perfectly honest with you,  You may not want to vilify police officers, but the things I've seen police officers do in the past week while they know they're being recorded are actively the actions of villains."Owen Muir, M.D.:This hit me like a ton of bricks. This is not okay, but when people call for help, and the police arrive, they deal with a crisis. A lot of those crises involve people with mental illness, and police officers are being asked to do a thing that like is a whole medical specialty. Like, I'm a psychiatrist. It was 45 000 hours of training to learn how to calm people down when upset and have experiences we don't have access to. And, if you're called to the scene of a crisis, and someone's acting in a really strange and scary way, and you have a gun. You've been told to protect yourself, don't let yourself get hurt or let this person harm you, and you know nothing bad will happen to you if you pull that trigger. You're going to pull that trigger.  More often than not. And that's about a thousand times a year. You're about... God knows it doesn't even matter. The percentage of time you're more likely to be killed if you're black and mentally ill. The fact that we have a statistic for that is fucked up enough. Help isn't helpful for black America. And that's just a fact of life.”Master Sergeant:"You know, I have friends in New York who are talking about the cruelty they see in these police officers' eyes. And what's worse, what's truly evil about this whole system is even in the throes of this violence, they're exhibiting racist and preferential behaviors towards white protesters versus black protesters. Or brown protesters. They're active, you know, taking it easier on white people because they're white. "Owen Muir, M.D.:And this is just f*****g killing me at this point. Ugh. Look, what's happening in the streets is not okay. It's not been okay for hundreds of years. And police officers are part of a system designed to keep order, and order used to mean slaves. That's just why they're there.Master Sergeant:"Things I don't even f*****g think about, man. Like, I'll go for a run or a rock at night. And I'll, I'll like, sometimes I'll go on my own, but if I don't go earlier, like, T. is like, well, I guess I'll go for a run. Like, one day, I just asked, like, why do you only run with me? Why do you only run with me? And she's like, well, it depends. We're in a quiet neighborhood in Florida, and I'm a black woman like I'm; there's a bunch of Trump signs everywhere like I'm not going running on my own. I was like, wow, yeah, I've never even thought along those lines; I don't question my safety when I go places. I'm hyper-vigilant for a lot of other reasons, but like, there's never a question in my mind, like if someone attacks me, it's not, it's an unexpected event, I'm not expecting, That at any moment, someone might attack me for the color of my skin. Because I'm in the neighborhood."William Osei, PhD.:"Hey, I'm Dr. Will Osei.I am a postdoctoral fellow, an African American psychologist living in Bedstuy, Brooklyn. " Owen Muir, M.D.:Dr. Osei is a scholar of racism and multiculturalism.And helped me explain what it's like for the black kids I've treated at Bellevue all these years.William Osei, PhD:"The average African American, this is like... This is a fact. This is not a revelation because we now have better cell phone coverage of these crimes. I remember being in Cleveland the day following Tamir Rice being murdered in the playground. And I was working with 12-year-old boys in the Cleveland school district. And I was devastated that day, and I went into that school expecting those boys to be devastated that their schoolmate, a kid they used to play with at the playground, was just murdered. And to them, it was nothing. It was more shocking because they knew a dozen people that the police had murdered. They knew that was just the latest murder that year. It just happened to be one that rose to the national conversation, but in Cleveland that year, there were probably 30, 50 police shootings.Owen Muir, M.D.:My level of outrage at watching all of this. That's privilege too.William Osei, PhD:"Yes. "Owen Muir, M.D.:Because to understand this as anything other than the rules of engagement would be a misunderstanding.  For a long time, Black America has known to watch out when you talk to the cops because they can kill you. Nothing's going to stop them if they want to. And they do. On camera. A thousand other times every year. And I wish it were as easy as saying it was a couple or even a lot of bad apples, but that is insufficient.Master Sergeant:"As far as privilege goes, I'm a combat veteran in the Ivy League. I'm an Arab Jew, but I look white enough that no one asks that question. I wear a suit, and you can't see my tattoos. And I... I can fit in anywhere from West Hampton to the slums of Bangladesh. Like, I'm good. You know what I mean? I have levels of privilege that people use to run for the presidency."Owen Muir, M.D.:But the magic of America is that white privilege runs out as soon as power wants it to. My colleague's married to a black woman.Master Sergeant:"And a huge part of this is like... It's the knowledge that I'm married to a black woman. My kids will be black, and this is like their plight. "Owen Muir, M.D.:Usually, we'd have credits now. Instead, I'm going to read these names.George Floyd, Ahmad Arbery, Brianna Taylor, Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner, Iyanna Jones. Freddie Gray, Michael Brown, Sandra Land, Walter Scott, and a kid on a playground in Cleveland named Tamir Rice. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thefrontierpsychiatrists.substack.com/subscribe

This week on the Sumud Podcast, in commemoration of Nakba, we're joined by Ahmad Abuznaid, the Executive Director of the US Campaign for Palestinian Rights & USCPR Action. Prior to joining USCPR, Ahmad co-founded the Florida-based Dream Defenders after the killing of Trayvon Martin, serving as Legal & Policy Director and COO during his time there. Ahmad went on to lead the National Network for Arab American Communities as the Executive Director from 2017 to 2019. Ahmad shares his insights on the intersection of Palestinian liberation and global justice movements in this thought-provoking conversation. He reflects on the role of youth in reshaping the narrative of resistance, the importance of international solidarity, and the profound impact of grassroots organizing in challenging imperialism and colonialism. Ahmad also discusses the moral imperative of resisting injustice and why standing for Palestinian freedom is crucial to the broader struggle for human rights.

What happens when you stand at the crossroads where the sacred meets the secular, where your identity refuses to fit into neat binaries, and where faith seeks understanding in the midst of doubt? In this deeply personal conversation, Episcopal priest and pioneering womanist theologian Kelly Brown Douglas returns to the podcast to explore theology as a lived experience, not abstract speculation. We dive into her powerful concept of "crossroads theology" – that stable, definite space where the blues singer performs both pain and praise, where Black and Episcopalian identity refuse to be bifurcated, and where God meets us in our full complexity. Kelly unpacks how the dangerous narratives of respectability and white supremacy create false binaries that diminish our humanity, and how Jesus's own crossroads moment challenges our comfortable Christianity. From her nightly prayers on her knees to calling the names of deported families, from finding God in resistance movements to wrestling with faith after Trayvon Martin's death, Kelly shows us what it means to do theology from "the complicated and sometimes contradictory spaces of our living." She reminds us that Christianity has a crucifixion at its center – and it's high time we act like it. Plus, we celebrate Kelly's upcoming appearance at Theology Beer Camp 2025, where she'll be bringing this transformative theological vision to 600 nerdy friends ready to do theology while day-drinking in a sanctuary. Trust me, you don't want to miss this conversation about finding resurrection hope in our Gethsemane moments. You can WATCH the conversation on YouTube Theology Beer Camp is a unique three-day conference that brings together of theology nerds and craft beer for a blend of intellectual engagement, community building, and fun. This event features a lineup of well-known podcasters, scholars, and theology enthusiasts who come together to "nerd out" on theological topics while enjoying loads of fun activities. Guests this year include John Dominic Crossan, Kelly Brown Douglas, Philip Clayton, Stacey Floyd-Thomas, Jeffery Pugh, Juan Floyd-Thomas, Andy Root, Grace Ji-Sun Kim, Noreen Herzfeld, Reggie Williams, Casper ter Kuile, and more! Get info and tickets here. Rev. Canon Kelly Brown Douglas is the Canon Theologian at the Cathedral. In 2017, she was named Dean of Episcopal Divinity School at Union Theological Seminary in New York City, and in 2019, she was appointed to the Bill and Judith Moyers Chair in Theology at Union. You can listen to her previous visit to the podcast here: Resurrection Hope & A Future Where Black Lives Matter Upcoming Online Class:⁠ Rediscovering the Spirit: Hand-Raisers, Han, & the Holy Ghost⁠ "⁠Rediscovering the Spirit: Hand-Raisers, Han, and the Holy Ghost⁠" is an open-online course exploring the dynamic, often overlooked third person of the Trinity. Based on Grace Ji-Sun Kim's groundbreaking work on the Holy Spirit (pneumatology), this class takes participants on a journey through biblical foundations, historical developments, diverse cultural perspectives, and practical applications of Spirit theology. ⁠As always, this class is donation-based, including 0. To get class info and sign up, head over here. ⁠ _____________________ ⁠⁠⁠Hang with 40+ Scholars & Podcasts and 600 people at Theology Beer Camp 2025 (Oct. 16-18) in St. Paul, MN. ⁠⁠⁠ This podcast is a ⁠⁠⁠Homebrewed Christianity⁠⁠⁠ production. Follow ⁠⁠⁠the Homebrewed Christianity⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Theology Nerd Throwdown⁠⁠⁠, & ⁠⁠⁠The Rise of Bonhoeffer⁠⁠⁠ podcasts for more theological goodness for your earbuds. Join over 80,000 other people by joining our⁠⁠⁠ Substack - Process This!⁠⁠⁠ Get instant access to over 45 classes at ⁠⁠⁠www.TheologyClass.com⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Follow the podcast, drop a review⁠⁠⁠, send ⁠⁠⁠feedback/questions⁠⁠⁠ or become a ⁠⁠⁠member of the HBC Community⁠⁠⁠. ⁠⁠⁠Theology Beer Camp | St. Paul, MN | October 16-18, 2025⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Finding Common Battle Grounds, we start with a discussion of the new luxury plane the Qatari government has promised to Donald Trump. It takes a while, but eventually we all agree that if Donald Trump gets to keep a $400 million luxury plane after he is no longer president, that is clearly bribery and corruption. Josh insists that, even though that is true, it's not like this isn't "business as usual" in politics. We then turn to a NYPost article claiming Biden went on a spending spree right before leaving office. The article doesn't provide sufficient information to verify the claims (in classic tabloid fashion). But what we could find suggests that their estimates are off by at least a factor of 10. This leads us back into a discussion of the national debt and other topics we cover regularly. Josh then raised the recent event of a woman in Minnesota who used a racial slur in reference to a 5-year-old kid and used that to argue that both the left and the right are now rallying behind anyone on their side, including criminals. Ryan clarified that Kilmar Abrego Garcia is not a criminal and not a member of MS-13, and Trayvon Martin was not a criminal either. But the bigger point is a good one.

The conversation focuses on recent events interpreted as "psyops", or staged events designed to polarize the public and advance a narrative.Key events discussed as recent psyops include:Rodney Hinton Jr.: This individual is in the news because his son was shot by police. The footage reportedly makes it look like the son was "shot in the back". Rodney Hinton Jr. "killed a cop in retaliation for his son being killed". This event is framed as a vigilante action. The media reportage is seen as attempting to make Rodney Hinton Jr. appear "righteous and defiant", an "anti-hero angle because he's challenging a corrupt system". The perp walk of Rodney Hinton Jr. is compared visually to that of Luigi Mangione. There is perceived "glorification" and people are responding by "organically arriving at these connections because they've been steered this direction". This event is seen as a "manufactured anti-hero" and an "Avenger", a father taking revenge. Footage is being suggested to have been blurred. Some are crowdfunding for him.Tyler Butler shooting: Three high schoolers performed a "knock, knock prank on a virginia home" at 3 a.m.. The homeowner, identified as Tyler Butler, "shoots one of them dead". He is reportedly arrested and charged with murder. The victim was a teenager who played lacrosse. This event is discussed as an example of a homeowner defending his home. The race of the individuals is noted as potentially influencing the perception of the event.Daniel Penny and Jordan Neely: The incident where Daniel Penny choked Jordan Neely on a subway is discussed. Daniel Penny was presented as a "lacrosse player", and his release coincides with Luigi Mangione being put in prison. This event is seen as polarizing, with Daniel Penny viewed as a "vigilante to the right and a killer to the left". The incident is strongly connected to Jordan Peele's movie Get Out, where the "antagonist looks like Daniel Penny, plays lacrosse, and chokes one of the... He's a strangler". Visual similarities between the movie characters and real individuals are noted as "undeniable visually". The director Jordan Peele is mentioned, with a reference to him saying he made Nope "after watching the George Floyd spectacle", drawing a parallel to the Jordan Neely death also being a "spectacle". The filming of the Jordan Neely incident by an "independent filmmaker" is connected to the perspective seen "through the viewfinder" in Nope.Austin Metcalfe and Shiloh Hendricks: These events are briefly mentioned as part of the recent "race war stuff". Austin Metcalfe is framed as a "black on white thing", hyped up by a January sixer, Jake Lane, who is attempting to make the victim a "white Trayvon Martin" to promote a "white lives matter thing". Shiloh Hendricks is mentioned for "throwing the N word at an autistic kid", leading to crowdfunding efforts competing with another fundraiser. These are presented as "back-to-back racial psyops". donateHere is a breakdown of the IPS Evening Deprogram episode:

Today on Normal World, Dave Landau, 1/4 Black Garrett, and Angela dig into the viral case of Shiloh Hendrix, a woman who called an autistic Black child the N-word—and somehow ended up a millionaire through GoFundMe. The crew breaks down how blatant racism is being rebranded as “free speech” and how both political extremes have replaced common sense with outrage. They reflect on Trayvon Martin, systemic injustice, and the emergence of a “woke right” that mirrors the same behavior it once ridiculed. From antisemitism to identity tribalism, they call out the absurdity of online purity tests and culture war grifting. Faith, race, government distrust, and the erosion of empathy all come into focus—before spiraling into hilarious chaos featuring weed PSAs, catnip trivia, food rankings, Mexican chefs, and a deep dive into the density of flight attendant BBLs. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

(Airdate 5/1/25) Dr. Melina Abdullah is a Professor of Pan-African Studies at Cal State LA, Co-Founder of Black Lives Matter Los Angeles, Director of Black Lives Matter Grassroots, and a leader in the California Faculty Association. She earned her Ph.D. and M.A. from the University of Southern California in Political Science and her B.A. from Howard University. On this podcast we dive in on an emergency meeting of activists in Minnesota, #Erskin Jenkins, the campaign to push out LA District Attorney Nathan Hochman and his directed attacks on Black Lives Matter, the case of former cop Cariole Horne and what's taking place in the West African nation of Burkina Faso.https://www.instagram.com/blmgrassroots/https://www.instagram.com/diprimaradio/

The Trayvon Martin case was built on an elaborate fraud, with Rachel Jeantel pretending to be the girlfriend who was on the phone with Martin at the time of his death, George Zimmerman says in a new lawsuit.The actual phone witness was Diamond Eugene, who was replaced when she would not testify, the suit says. Martin's parents participated in the swap, it says.Prosecutors withheld key evidence from Zimmerman, including falsely telling the defense team that Martin's cellphone was broken, it saysBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-opperman-report--1198501/support.

In this stunning work of investigative journalism, filmmaker Joel Gilbert uncovers the true story of the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, a tragedy that divided America.By examining Trayvon's 750-page cell phone records, Gilbert discovers that the key witness for the prosecution of George Zimmerman, the plus-sized 18-year-old Rachel Jeantel, was a fraud. It was in fact a different girl who was on the phone with Trayvon just before he was shot. She was the 16-year-old named "Diamond" whose recorded conversation with attorney Benjamin Crump ignited the public, swayed President Obama, and provoked the nation's media to demand Zimmerman's arrest.Gilbert's painstaking research takes him through the high schools of Miami, into the back alleys of Little Haiti, and to finally to Florida State University where he finds Trayvon's real girlfriend, the real phone witness, Diamond Eugene. Gilbert confirms his revelations with forensic handwriting analysis and DNA testing.After obtaining unredacted court documents and reading Diamond's vast social media archives, Gilbert then reconstructs the true story of Trayvon Martin's troubled teenage life and tragic death.In the process, he exposes in detail the most consequential hoax in recent American judicial history, The Trayvon Hoax, that was ground zero for the downward spiral of race relations in America. This incredible book has the potential to correct American history and bring America back together again.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-opperman-report--1198501/support.

An MS-13 gang member, Kilmar Abrago Garcia, is deported—but not before sparking media spin and political outrage. The PBD Podcast dives into the evidence, media bias, and the deeper failures in America's crime, border, and justice systems.

The last thing this country needs is more division. The tragic murder of Austin Metcalf has only deepened that divide. On today's episode of "Fearless," Jason addresses Nick Fuentes' anti-black rant. This murder was a tragedy — plain and simple. It doesn't need to be turned into a racial issue. Those on both sides of the political aisle who are choosing sides based on race — even those defending Austin Metcalf — are two sides of the same coin. Was a racial conflict always inevitable? Who stands to gain from a race war? Who is really pulling the strings behind the scenes? Since the Trayvon Martin incident, the prominence of racism in public discourse has surged. Since then, race has become a central theme in Hollywood films and pop culture across America. This “race industrial complex” seems almost inspired by MK-Ultra — covert deep-state operatives seeking to manipulate and exploit the masses. Jason reflects on the MK-Ultra program and its connection to the Manson murders of the 1960s, all reportedly under the watchful eye of the CIA. In this special episode, Jason takes a deep dive into not-so-distant history, uncovering who might be behind today's growing divide. Tune in to "Fearless." ​​Today's Sponsors: Relief Factor With Relief Factor, you'll feel better every day, and you'll live better every day. Get their 3-Week QuickStart for only $19.95 – that's less than a dollar a day. Call 1-800-4-Relief Or Visit https://ReliefFactor.com  Real Estate Agents I Trust Real Estate Agents I Trust connects you with the top-performing real estate agents in your local area. They'll find you an expert who understands today's crazy housing market and will lead you every step of the way. Visit https://www.realestateagentsitrust.com to find an agent you can count on! King of Kings We encourage you to see The King of Kings. In theaters on Friday, April 11th. Get your tickets today at https://Angel.com/JASON   Frontier 2 You need to check out Frontier, by Blaze Media—Issue 2 is here, and it's even bigger and bolder than the first! The first 500 subscribers will receive both Issue 1 and Issue 2. Head to https://BlazeUnlimited.com/fearless and use promo code Blaze500 for $40 off your subscription. Fearless Army Roll Call 3.0 Roll Call 3.0 continues the mission of men encouraging each other to pursue holiness and the execution of The Great Commission (Matthew 28:19-20) by seeking alliance and fellowship with men who share our faith, values and commitment to obey our Lord and Savior. Join hundreds of like-minded men in Nashville on May 2nd-3rd for this important conference. Lunch will be included. Tickets are available right now at https://www.fearlessrollcall.com. SHOW OUTLINE 13:00      Is race conflict unavoidable in America? 52:40      Nick Fuentes Calls out Jason Whitlock over Race Debate We want to hear from the Fearless Army!! Join the conversation in the show chat, leave a comment or email Jason at FearlessBlazeShow@gmail.com Want more Fearless content? Subscribe to Jason Whitlock Harmony for a biblical perspective on everyday issues at https://www.youtube.com/@JasonWhitlockHarmony Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The George Zimmerman trial about the death of Trayvon Martin reshaped national conversations on self-defense, race, and the legal system. Beyond the headlines, the case was far more complex. In this episode, Justin discusses it all with Dennis Root, a nationally recognized use-of-force expert and key witness in the Zimmerman trial. He breaks down the forensic evidence, media misconceptions, and what the public still gets wrong about high-profile cases like this.Understand what constitutes “reasonable” use of force in self-defense situations.Why expert witnesses are crucial in helping juries and judges interpret evidence.Stand Your Ground vs. Self-Defense: Learn how these legal concepts apply.This episode cuts through the noise, offering a deeper understanding of use-of-force and self-defense, media distortion, and the complexities of cases that become national conversations. Listen now to hear the full story and explore Dennis Root's expert analysis.Connect with Truth Be Found on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/truthbefoundpodcast/Connect with Truth Be Found on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/1A4b7PjhaG/?mibextid=wwXIfrConnect with Truth Be Found on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@truthbefoundpodcastConnect with Truth Be Found on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3gAFoH_AQSvPYhsQ6Lw7rr0tYrg0wIiWDennis's website: https://dennisroot.com/Dennis's book: Force Concepts

Another Paternity Leave Installment, and this time we're going with a pretty famous double-ripped-from-the-headlines episode. Patreon payments are frozen for the time being. A few resourceful new Munchies have figured out a work-around where you can join as a free member and upgrade from there to a paid account which charges you for one month and unlocks the back catalog behind the respective tier of the paywall. After that first payment, you won't be charged again until we're dropping new content (which we'll warn everyone is coming), so if you want more of this it can be had, along with access to the fully uncut episodes from 100 to present and Movie Club episodes.We at Munch My Benson like to go off on tangents, and the intellectual fuel provided by "American Tragedy" (S15E3) propelled us pretty far out there. We learn about old New York when it was still basically New Amsterdam; we break down Cybill Shepherd's accent as it wavers in and out of caricature; we delve into the Trayvon Martin and Paula Deen cases from whose headlines this episode was ripped; we learn about John Cougar Mellencamp's extended family; and, we definitely talk about whether or not it's socially acceptable to deck a bald man in the middle of the night on a lonely street corner. Enjoy!Sources:The Five Points - WikipediaTrayvon Martin's Parents Five Years On - The GuardianThe Real Problem With Paula Deen - EaterMusic:Divorcio Suave - “Munchy Business”Thanks to our gracious Munchies on Patreon: Jeremy S, Jaclyn O, Amy Z, Diana R, Tony B, Zak B, Barry W, Drew D, Nicky R, Stuart, Jacqi B, Natalie T, Robyn S, Christine L, Amy A, Sean M, Jay S, Briley O, Asteria K, Suzanne B, Tim Y, John P, John W, Elia S, Rebecca B, Lily, Sarah L, Melsa A, Alyssa C, Johnathon M, Tiffany C, Brian B, Kate K, Whitney C, Alex, Jannicke HS, Roni C, and Nourhane B - y'all are the best!Be a Munchie, too! Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/munchmybensonBe sure to check out our other podcast diving into long unseen films of our guests' youth: Unkind Rewind at our website or on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcastsFollow us on: BlueSky, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Threads, and Reddit (Adam's Twitter/BlueSky and Josh's Twitter/BlueSky/Letterboxd/Substack)Join our Discord: Munch Casts ServerCheck out Munch Merch: Munch Merch at ZazzleCheck out our guest appearances:Both of us on: FMWL Pod (1st Time & 2nd Time), Storytellers from Ratchet Book Club, Chick-Lit at the Movies talking about The Thin Man, and last but not least on the seminal L&O podcast …These Are Their Stories (Adam and Josh).Josh debating the Greatest Detectives in TV History on The Great Pop Culture Debate Podcast and talking SVU/OC and Psych (five eps in all) on Jacked Up Review Show.Visit Our Website: Munch My BensonEmail the podcast: munchmybenson@gmail.comThe Next New Episode Once We're Back from Adam's Paternity Leave Will Be: Season 16, Episode 14 "Intimidation Game"Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/munch-my-benson-a-law-order-svu-podcast--5685940/support.

“Stand Your Ground” became a part of the cultural lexicon over a dozen years ago when a Florida jury acquitted George Zimmerman of murder in the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin under the Florida self-defense law. Director Geeta Gandbhir takes a probing look at Stand Your Ground laws in her searing new documentary “The Perfect Neighbor,” which recently premiered at the Sundance Film Festival where it won the Directing Award in the U.S. Documentary section.   Joining Ken for a conversation in Park City during the festival, Geeta discusses her personal connection to Ajike Owens, who was fatally shot through a locked metal door in Florida, and the tragic consequences that result all-too-frequently from Stand Your Ground laws. Using a vast trove of police body cam footage, as well as interrogation interviews with the woman who killed Ajike, “The Perfect Neighbor” does something remarkable: repurposing dispassionate found footage to tell a story that is deeply personal, moving and unforgettable.   Follow: @geetagandbhir on Instagram and X @topdocspod on Instagram and X    The Presenting Sponsor of "Top Docs" is Netflix.

Ever wondered why a Waffle House might charge extra for eggs or what unfolds when a love story takes you across the globe? Buckle up for a whirlwind of laughs and insight as we navigate through the quirks of online personas and the curious fall from grace of a beloved restaurant, Cuzzo's Cuisine. We reminisce about iconic birthdays, like Kevin Gates and Bobby Brown, and spice things up with amusing tales and reflections on their larger-than-life journeys. Meanwhile, we'll touch base with the gaming world and give a cheeky nod to sports discussions where women gamers are breaking barriers.Our episode takes a poignant turn as we honor Trayvon Martin on what should have been his 30th birthday and delve into the complexities of tragic events like a Philadelphia plane crash and a shocking act of violence in Missouri. These moments aren't just stories; they're a lens into the human experience, revealing both personal and broader societal challenges. Then, prepare for cultural shockwaves as a New Yorker's quest for love sends her to Pakistan, demanding compensation for her troubles with a bold flair that's as captivating as it is surreal.On a lighter note, let's tackle parenting dilemmas, from sneaky kids unwrapping gaming consoles early to figuring out the best way to handle mischievous little ones. With a nostalgic trip through classic gaming consoles and a cheeky conversation about intimate preferences using pastry metaphors, this episode promises a rollercoaster of emotions and laughs. Whether it's parenting hacks or quirky love stories, our chatter brings a blend of humor and heartfelt moments, inviting you to join us in celebrating the tapestry of life's unpredictable journeys.Support the showFollow us on social media www.instagram.com/noadvisorypod

Alan's Soaps https://www.AlansArtisanSoaps.comUse coupon code TODD to save an additional 10% off the bundle price.Bioptimizers https://Bioptimizers.com/toddEnter promo code TODD to get 10% off any order.Bonefrog https://BonefrogCoffee.com/toddCelebrate St. Patrick's Day with an Irish Bag of coffee and a “Lucky” gift box from BoneFrog Coffee.  Use code TODD at checkout to receive 10% off your first purchase and 15% on subscriptions.Bulwark Capital Bulwark Capital Management (bulwarkcapitalmgmt.com)Don't miss the next live Webinar Thursday March 20th at 3:30pm pacific.  Sign up today by calling 866-779-RISK or go to KnowYourRiskRadio.com.Renue Healthcare https://Renue.Healthcare/ToddYour journey to a better life starts at Renue Healthcare. Visit Renue.Healthcare/Todd.The way Jasmine Crockett speaks is by design, and it mocks poor black people. Jon Stewart vs Elon Musk, and what Elon Musk should have said. In defense of Gene Hackman's last days…Episode Links:“Texas, what are y'all doing? Are y'all really proud of the representation y'all get from Jasmine Crockett? I'm serious.” “Jasmine Crockett is a racist, trashy, ghetto piece of a mess! Yep, I said it!”Jasmine Crockett is getting absolutely COOKED right now!!!Honestly, Jasmine Crockett sounds completely illiterate when she speaks.Rep. Jasmine Crockett (D) falsely claims "80% of the most extreme crime in this country are from white supremacists"But, this is how Jasmine Crockett USED to speak. (Bad language at the link, please be warned). Stewart: Trump's 'A D***' For Removing T From LGBT, Pronouns in Email SignaturesJon Stewart responds to Elon Musk's interview rules. Jon then ridicules Elon for being biased after Elon accused him of being biased.How CBS News Edited Kamala HarrisCourt rules for NBC in George Zimmerman defamation caseNBC producer's editing of 911 call in Trayvon Martin case misleads viewers - FlackCheckJUST IN: Actor Gene Hackman dıed of heart disease, but his wife dıed ONE WEEK EARLIER around February 11th of hantavirus, per authorities According to them, Hackman walked around the house with her body still in it, alerting nobody.What Does God's Word Say?Genesis 3:19: “By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”Genesis 18:27: “Abraham answered and said, “Behold, I have undertaken to speak to the Lord, I who am but dust and ashes.”Ecclesiastes 12:7: “And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.”Psalm 103:13-14: “As a father shows compassion to his children, so the Lord shows compassion to those who fear him. For he knows our frame; he remembers that we are dust.”

The Trayvon Martin case was built on an elaborate fraud, with Rachel Jeantel pretending to be the girlfriend who was on the phone with Martin at the time of his death, George Zimmerman says in a new lawsuit.The actual phone witness was Diamond Eugene, who was replaced when she would not testify, the suit says. Martin's parents participated in the swap, it says.Prosecutors withheld key evidence from Zimmerman, including falsely telling the defense team that Martin's cellphone was broken, it saysBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-opperman-report--1198501/support.

In this stunning work of investigative journalism, filmmaker Joel Gilbert uncovers the true story of the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, a tragedy that divided America. By examining Trayvon's 750-page cell phone records, Gilbert discovers that the key witness for the prosecution of George Zimmerman, the plus-sized 18-year-old Rachel Jeantel, was a fraud. It was in fact a different girl who was on the phone with Trayvon just before he was shot. She was the 16-year-old named "Diamond" whose recorded conversation with attorney Benjamin Crump ignited the public, swayed President Obama, and provoked the nation's media to demand Zimmerman's arrest. Gilbert's painstaking research takes him through the high schools of Miami, into the back alleys of Little Haiti, and to finally to Florida State University where he finds Trayvon's real girlfriend, the real phone witness, Diamond Eugene. Gilbert confirms his revelations with forensic handwriting analysis and DNA testing. After obtaining unredacted court documents and reading Diamond's vast social media archives, Gilbert then reconstructs the true story of Trayvon Martin's troubled teenage life and tragic death. In the process, he exposes in detail the most consequential hoax in recent American judicial history, The Trayvon Hoax, that was ground zero for the downward spiral of race relations in America. This incredible book has the potential to correct American history and bring America back together again.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-opperman-report--1198501/support.

In which the Mister joins me in reviewing ORIGIN (1988), from writer/director Ava DuVernay.  This film is a biographical dramatization based on the life and writings of American journalist and author, Isabel Wilkerson (Aunjanue Ellis-Taylor), dealing with multiple familial deaths while researching the origins behind systemic racism after the death of Trayvon Martin rocks the nation.  This research becomes her critically acclaimed book, CASTE: THE ORIGINS OF OUR DISCONTENTS.  The film clocks in at 2 h and 21 m, is rated PG-13 and is currently streaming on Hulu but also available to buy/rent from Prime Video.  Please note there are SPOILERS in this review. #Origin  #IsabelWilkerson  #AvaDuVernay  #AunjanueEllisTaylor  #Isabel  #JonBernthal  #Brett  #NiecyNash  #Marion  #EmilyYancy  #Ruby  ##FemaleFilmmakerFriday  #FridayFamilyFilmNight  Opening intro music: GOAT by Wayne Jones, courtesy of YouTube Audio Library  --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jokagoge/support

It's our season finale! We're answering listener questions and talking:-        Staying grounded and emotionally healthy post-election-        Some mistakes people are making in their election analysis-        Why the politics of identity will never go away in America-        How the Church can and can't fight anti-Blackness and other forms of injustice-        Where you can hear us in between seasons-        And a lot more!Mentioned in the Episode:-        Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor by Rev. Caleb Campbell-        Our newsletter from last week with a worship playlist and sermon Jonathan recommended-        The Webinar Intervarsity is doing with Campbell on Tuesday – Register here.-        The article on patriarchy by Frederick Joseph: “For Palestinian Fathers, Sons, and Brothers”-        Our free guide to processing and acting on the injustices you encounterCredits-            Follow KTF Press on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads. Subscribe to get our bonus episodes and other benefits at KTFPress.com.-        Follow host Jonathan Walton on Facebook Instagram, and Threads.-        Follow host Sy Hoekstra on Mastodon.-        Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra – listen to the whole song on Spotify.-        Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess – follow her and see her other work on Instagram.-        Editing by Multitude Productions-        Transcripts by Joyce Ambale and Sy Hoekstra.-        Production by Sy Hoekstra and our incredible subscribersTranscriptIntroduction[An acoustic guitar softly plays six notes in a major scale, the first three ascending and the last three descending, with a keyboard pad playing the tonic in the background. Both fade out as Jonathan Walton says “This is a KTF Press podcast.”]Sy Hoekstra: The beauty of the church is not in how good it is. The church is beautiful in the light of Christ, not in the light of its own good work and goodness. The church is beautiful when it is people collectively trying to put their faith in the grace that governs the universe, and not put their faith in their own ability to bring the kingdom of God into this world.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “I need to know there is justice/That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Sy Hoekstra: Welcome to Shake the Dust, seeking Jesus confronting injustice. I'm Sy Hoekstra.Jonathan Walton: And I'm Jonathan Walton. We have a great show for you today. It's our season four finale. We're answering listener questions and continuing our discussion from our Substack live conversation two weeks ago, about where to go from the Trump election as followers of Jesus.Sy Hoekstra: And because this is the finale, let me just take a quick second to tell you where we are going from here. We are gonna be doing our monthly bonus episodes for our paid subscribers, like we usually do when we are not on a season of this show. We are going to be doing them though slightly differently. You will have the opportunity to hear them at one point if you're not a paid subscriber, because we're gonna record them like we did two weeks ago on Substack Live. So if you want to see those when they are being recorded, download the Substack app. If you get on our free emailing list, you'll be notified when we start. You just need to go ahead and get that app, it's both on iOS and Android.And if you wanna make sure that you're getting our emails in your Gmail inbox, because we've heard some people tell us they're going to the promotions folder or whatever Gmail is trying to do to filter out your spam, but actually filtering out the stuff that you wanna see, you just have to either add us to your contacts, or if it's in the promotions folder, just click the “Not promotion” button that you can see when you open your email. Or you can actually just drag and drop emails that show up in your folders to your inbox, and then it'll ask you, “Hey, do you wanna always put emails from the sender in your inbox?” And you can just click, yes. So do one of those things, add us to your contact, drag and drop, click that “Not promotions” button that'll help you see those notifications from us.Jonathan Walton: If you'd like access to the recordings of those bonus episodes, plus access to our monthly subscriber Zoom chats, become a paid subscriber at KTFPress.com. We would so appreciate it and you would be supporting our work that centers personal and informed discussions on faith, politics, and culture to help you seek Jesus and confront injustice. We are two friends resisting the idols of the American church in order to follow Jesus faithfully, and would love for you to join us. So become a paid subscriber at KTFPpress.com.Sy Hoekstra: And we've said this before, but we should probably say it again. If you want a discounted subscription or if money's a barrier to you joining us as a paid subscriber, just email us, info@ktfpress.com. We'll give you a free subscription or a discounted subscription, no questions asked. You will not be the first person to do it if you do. Other people have done it, we've given it to them. We won't make it weird because we want everyone to have access to everything that we're doing. But if you can afford to support us, please as Jonathan said, go to KTFPress.com and become a paid subscriber. Let's jump into it, Jonathan.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, man.Sy Hoekstra: We, a couple weeks ago on our Substack Live, we were talking about processing through grief and like what we have been hearing from people. We've had lots of questions and lots of conversations since then. So we're sort of combining, amalgamating [laughs] lots of subscriber questions into one, or even just questions from friends and family. I just wanna know how you are continuing to process the election and what you're thinking about grief and how we move forward, or how we look back and see what exactly happened.Staying Grounded and Emotionally Healthy Post-ElectionJonathan Walton: Yeah. So I think that one of the things I just have to acknowledge is that I'm tired of talking about it, and not okay talking about it. Like just the level of energy it takes to have regulated, like emotionally regulated healthy conversations is exhausting.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And so, just naming that. So last week I think I was in a better place than this week recording. And so I'm recognizing I need to be able to take steps back and set boundaries so that I can be in a healthier place. And I just encourage everybody to do that. We all need rhythms and disciplines that keep us grounded. That is not like, oh, when I'm in this season, I need spiritual discipline. No. We actually are supposed to have them all the time. But I think in moments like these and seasons like this, we actually need them just in a more pointed way. It reminds us that we do. So those are things that I'm doubling down on, like starting to listen to worship music.If you check out last week's newsletter, I actually had a worship set from a worship leader in Columbus, Ohio, who basically said, if you can't sit across someone who has a different political perspective than you, then you probably can't worship with them. So let's start off with worship. And so they made a, I don't know, a six hour playlist of songs from different traditions and said like, play it without skipping it. Without skipping a song. Don't be like, “I don't like this song, I don't like this. I don't like…” This reminds me of them. Like, just listen to the whole album because somebody who is different from you meets Jesus through the words of the song. And he said, “You would never know that I don't like some of the songs that we sing [laughter], but I sing them. And I thought that was just a really honest thing.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. You said it was six hours long?Jonathan Walton: It's a lot. I haven't made it through a third of it.Sy Hoekstra: Okay [laughs].Jonathan Walton: It's long. And the sermon is also linked in the newsletter as well. It's just a great message from Pastor Joshua.Sy Hoekstra: This is a pastor in Ohio that you're familiar with?Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: How did you get connected to this?Jonathan Walton: Yeah. So someone on the political discipleship team for InterVarsity, shout out to Connie Anderson, who's written…Sy Hoekstra: Oh, great.Jonathan Walton: …a lot of our stuff. Our InterVarsity stuff.Sy Hoekstra: Yes. Not KTF stuff.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. She just, she said, “Hey, I really appreciated the sermon and I was able to listen to it, and I'm working my way through the songs. And if I skip a song, I'm gonna go back, because I'm not the only person on my Spotify. Shout out to all the Moana and Frozen tracks that get stuck in there.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: So all that to say, that's like the first big thing, is setting boundaries, trying to have healthier rhythms so that I can be fully present to my family and myself.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Having Difficult Conversations by Meeting People Where They AreJonathan Walton: Also, I think it's really important to remember, particularly when I'm frustrated, I have to remember to meet people where they're at the way that Jesus met me. I have not always known that Christian Nationalism was bad. I didn't always have another term for it that captures the racialized, patriarchal environmental hierarchy of it called White American folk religion. I didn't always know about police brutality and the rural urban divide. I didn't know about those things. And what I desperately needed and unfortunately had, was patient people who were willing to teach me. And so as we're having these conversations, there's a book called Disarming Leviathan, ministering to your Christian Nationalist neighbor. It's really, really good. We're doing an event that you will hear about in our newsletter as well with the author of that booked Caleb Campbell.Sy Hoekstra: And when you say we, in that case again, you mean InterVarsity?Jonathan Walton: Oh, shoot.Sy Hoekstra: It doesn't matter [laughs].Jonathan Walton: I do mean InterVarsity. There's a little bit of overlap here because the season is so fraught.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah [laughs]. Yeah, yeah, yeah.Jonathan Walton: Like [laughs], and so you're gonna hear about that in a newsletter as well. InterVarsity Press is promoting it, InterVarsity's promoting it. Pastors and teachers are promoting it because the reality is, we all need to figure out how to tackle difficult conversations.Sy Hoekstra: Yep.Jonathan Walton: And we use that verb specifically, like it's elusive. We have to go after it [laughs] to be able to…Sy Hoekstra: You have to go wrangle it.Jonathan Walton: Yes, because it's hard. It's really, really hard. We would rather run away. We would rather run away from difficult conversations. So meeting people where they're at, we do that because Jesus meets us where we are. Our compassion, our gentleness is in outpouring of the compassion and gentleness that we've meditated on and experienced for ourselves and are willing to embody with other people. So those would be my biggest things from the last week or last two weeks since we last talked about this stuff. What about you?Healthy Reactions to the Election Are Different for Different PeopleSy Hoekstra: Yeah, that's good. We actually had, speaking of people who have a, like a different rhythm or need to adjust something now to be emotionally healthy, we actually had a subscriber, I won't give any details, but write in who's overseas, who basically said, “I've got too much going on in the country that I live in. I can't deal with American stuff right now. I need to unsubscribe from you.” They're on the free list. And I was like, “Man, I understand [laughs].”Jonathan Walton: Yes, right. I would like to unsubscribe from this [laughter]. No, I'm just joking, just joking.Sy Hoekstra: I appreciate that he wrote in to explain why he was unsubscribing. That doesn't necessarily happen a lot…Jonathan Walton: Right. Right, right.Sy Hoekstra: But it's very understandable and it's really sad, but I totally get it. And I want people to take care of themselves in that way. And I think, I mean, the flip side of that is we had a ton of people in the last week or week and a half sign up for the free list because I think a lot of people are just looking for ways to process, right [laughs]?Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: They are looking for people who are having these conversations, which happens. We got started, this company got started during the 2020 election, putting together the anthology that we put together, and we had a lot of response at that point too, and people who are just like, “Yes, I need to hear more of this processing.” And the difference now is there are fortunately, like a lot of people doing this work from all kinds of different angles all around the country, which is a very good thing, I think. We could be tempted to think of it as competition or whatever, but the church [laughs] has to come at this from as many angles as possible. There need to be as many voices doing the work of trying to figure out how to follow Jesus and seek justice as there are people promoting Christian Nationalism, and we're… those numbers are nowhere close to parody [laughs].Jonathan Walton: No.Sy Hoekstra: Not remotely close.Jonathan Walton: Absolutely. No, they are not [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. Unfortunately, that's a reality of the American church. So, anyways, I appreciate all those thoughts very much, Jonathan.Mistakes People Are Making in Election AnalysisSy Hoekstra: I think when I'm thinking about the conversations that I've had, I have a couple thoughts that come to mind. I think a lot of the things that I think about in the conversations in the last week and a half are people trying to figure out what happened, like looking back and like playing the blame game [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And the excuses that people are making, or the blame is shifting for why Trump matters now, because you can't say he lost the popular vote anymore. Obviously he won the electoral college the first time, but he lost popular vote, and then he lost the popular vote to Biden plus the electoral college. Now he's won it, and so people are not as able to, to the extent that people were still trying to paint him as an aberration from the norm.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: …that's getting harder. It's getting harder to say, “Oh, this is just a blip on the radar and we'll come back to our normal situation at some point, some undetermined point in the future. But so they're shifting blame to other people. It's like, oh, various non-White groups increased their votes for Trump. Or young people increased their votes for Trump or something.Which Party Wins Tells Us A Lot Less about America Than Who Is an Acceptable Candidate in the First PlaceSy Hoekstra: To me, a lot of that stuff, if you're trying to say that Donald Trump represents a problem with the whole country that you're trying to diagnose how it happened, all those conversations are a little bit silly, because the problem is that he's like a viable candidate who people voted for in the first place. But the people to blame for electing Donald Trump are the people who voted for Donald Trump, which is more than half of the voters in America. Not much more, but more.And the reason it's like a little bit silly to talk about what's different than the prior elections is, the prior elections were like Trump's gonna win this election, the popular vote. Trump's gonna win the popular vote by like two or three percent probably. It could be a little bit different than that, but basically Trump's gonna get slightly more than 50 percent, Kamala Harris is gonna get slightly less than 50 percent. And that's usually how it goes. That is the reality of this, how this country works. We have a winner take all system, and so typically speaking, it's a little over 50 and a little under 50. The swings between who gets elected in any given year, president, we're playing with marginal things. Democratic strategists, Republican strategists are trying to figure out how to fiddle with the margins to get what they want.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: It was only seven states in this country that actually mattered [laughs]. Like 86 percent of the states in this country were decided and then we're just playing with seven states. We're just playing with little numbers. And so all of these, like all Black people went slightly more for Trump. Young people went slightly more for Trump, whatever. It'll go back later. I don't know if you saw this, Jonathan, on Monday this week. So last week, if you're listening to this, John Stewart brought out the map of the 1984 election. Did you see this?Jonathan Walton: Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. It was so interesting [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: It's like it was completely one color.Sy Hoekstra: It's red, yeah.Jonathan Walton: And you're like, “What? Whoa, this looks like a candy cane without the White” [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Right, exactly.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: If you've never seen the Reagan-Mondale electoral map, literally the entire country, except for Minnesota is red. The whole country went for Ronald Reagan. So that's like, it's one of the biggest landslides in history, and the popular vote for Ronald Reagan, I decided to look that up, was less than 59 percent.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: Right?Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: You get the whole country. You have to get 270 electoral votes to win, he got like 520 something.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, yeah.Sy Hoekstra: He crushed Mondale. But eight years later, bill Clinton is in office and we're kind of back to normal. We're back to America's normal, right?Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: It's so small, these little things, and we just have to stay focused on, the problem here is that both of our parties in different ways, to different degrees are just infused with White supremacy and White American folk religion and patriarchy and everything else. And Donald Trump can be a viable candidate in the United States.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: That's the problem [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right, that is the problem.Sy Hoekstra: We have to stop talking about, I don't care what Gen Z did. Gen Z will change just like everybody else has changed. Election to election, things will be different. Anybody who thought that, “Oh, just a new generation of people in the United States of America growing up is gonna fundamentally change the United States of America.” How? Why did you think that [laughter]? Why? Why? Why would the children of the people, who were the children of the people, who were the children of the people who have been in the same country for years and years, generation after generation, why would that just be something fundamentally different? It's the same people, they're just a bit younger. I don't know. I never get those kinds of arguments.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Facing the Reality of America's BrokennessSy Hoekstra: What I'm saying is, I think underlying a lot of those arguments though, is a desire to have some control over something. To have something that we can say is certain that we're changing, that we can be the good people that we thought Americans fundamentally were again, or something like that. It's about control and trying to wrap your mind around something. I think instead of just facing the reality that we live in a deeply flawed country.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Which is, should be biblically speaking, unsurprising.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: But it is also difficult. It's unsurprising and it's difficult to deal with. Facing the reality of the brokenness of the world, not a fun thing to do. We've talked about this before.The People to Blame for the Election are the Mostly White and Male People Who Voted for TrumpJonathan Walton: Well, I think it would be helpful for people to remember, in all the things you're talking about, Trump did not win the popular vote last time, he won it this time. Trump won the electoral college, right? Let's actually just for a moment identify the voting population of the United States of America. So there are 336 million people in the United States per the population tracker today, right?Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: There are 169 million people who voted in the election in 2020. The numbers are not final for 2024.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. It's gonna be less, it'll be less than that though.Jonathan Walton: It's less. So let's say 165 million people voted in the election this time. And that's generous. Right?Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: So that's less than 50 percent of the country that actually voted. Then we take into the account that 70 percent of this country of the voting population is still White. Okay friends?Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. Roughly, I would say. Yeah, that's true.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: People give different estimates of that, but it doesn't get much lower than like 65 [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right. So let's even go with 65 percent.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. Yeah. Right. [laughs].Jonathan Walton: So let's say 65 percent of that voting population is White, and then half of that population is male. And Trump did an exceptional job at mobilizing White slash men in the United States to go and vote. An exceptional job. Looking at that population and saying, “We are gonna make sure that you feel invited, welcomed and empowered.” Joe Rogan's show [laughs], these other influencers, how he advertised. If you look at who was on stage in these different venues when he was campaigning, all men. And the women, I think it's very important to notice this. I think when he gave his acceptance speech, his now chief of staff that they called the Iron Lady or something like that. The Ice Lady, Iron Lady, something like that.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: That's what they called her. And then she declined the invitation to speak. And so I think that when we are sitting here saying, “Oh man, how could people vote this way?” We are not talking about the entire population of the United States.Sy Hoekstra: Yes.Jonathan Walton: We are talking about a little less than half of the voters in the United States, and then we are talking about 50 percent of that group. We're not talking about people under 18, generation alpha. We're not talking about the vast majority of Gen Z. We're talking about the same voters we've been talking about for the last 30 years [laughs]. The voting population of White adults in the United States. That's who we're talking about. We could blame, oh, this group or that group, but I agree with what you're saying. We have to face the reality that at some point we have to talk about race and we have to talk about gender. When we talk about identity politics, we don't name White and male as an identity.Sy Hoekstra: Right. Yeah.Jonathan Walton: We don't. We call it something else. We say, oh, like the working class or all these other things. But we need to just say, if we look at how White people are voting and we look at how men are voting, then we have the answer to I think, how Trump was elected. But those two things are third rails. Or like in New York City, you don't touch the third rail, it's electric because of the subway.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: So we don't talk about that. And I think, I don't say that because I wanna blame people, I'm just naming statistics. These are just numbers. The numbers of people who are voting, the demographics they represent, this is the group. So when Sy says, who is responsible for Trump's election, it is the majority of White Americans who vote, and men in this country of all races who lean towards hey, opting into patriarchy in ways that are unhelpful.Sy Hoekstra: It's not of all races [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Well, I will say that the increases of Black men, the increases of Latino men, Trump did grow his share of the Black male vote by double digits. Right?Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, but it's still a minority of the Black male vote.Jonathan Walton: It is. I'm just saying, I do not want to discount the reality that patriarchy is attractive to all races.Sy Hoekstra: Oh, yeah.Jonathan Walton: That's what I wanna name. And so when Fred Joseph, amazing author, talks about the attractiveness of patriarchy, I think that is something that all men need to say no to.Sy Hoekstra: This is an essay that we highlighted in our newsletter like a month or two ago.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: I'll put the link in the show notes.Jonathan Walton: We have to say no to patriarchy.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And so anyway, that's my rant in response to this [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, no. That's good, and that actually gets into it, the other thing I wanted to talk about was, which even though I think some of these blame game conversations are such like nonsense, we are still able within those nonsense conversations to say a lot of things that are just demonstrably false [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Right.The Politics of Identity Will Never Die in AmericaSy Hoekstra: And what you just said is one of them. Like I've seen some people talking about, “Oh, the democrats lost because they ran on identity politics,” or, “Identity politics is over.” And I'm like, “What are you talking about [laughter]?” Donald Trump is all identity politics.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: It was all about White men and how they were gonna be comfortable and empowered how Christians are gonna be in powered again.Jonathan Walton: How women are gonna be taken care of, whether they like it or not.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah right. Men are gonna be back in power. How citizens are gonna have what they deserve, and then we're gonna stop giving it to the illegal immigrants, right?Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Like everything Donald Trump does is about identity. And the bigger thing to say is identity politics in America is not a current or temporary trend. Identity politics is baked into the foundation of the country, and it was not Black people who did it [laughs]. It was the founding fathers who created a system where only White men could be naturalized and only rich White men could vote, and we enshrined racial slavery, all that stuff. Identity politics has been here from day one. It's not like a liberal thing. It was a thing that we baked in on purpose, and it's a thing that came from European culture and it's still fundamental to European culture to this day.Sy Hoekstra: And I, what I think what people mean when they talk about identity politics is, it's another one of the endless string of words that we use since racial slurs became impolite. We can't say the N word anymore. It's another way of saying it's Black people talking about Black people stuff. Right? When people talk about identity politics, they're saying the wrong identity politics, because everybody is talking about identity politics all the time. They're just, like you said, not calling it identity politics. They're talking about “real America” [laughs], right?Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: They're talking about, we know what they mean by real America. They're talking about White men and they're just saying this is the default culture. We're all just assuming this is the default culture, everything else is identity politics. Nonsense.Jonathan Walton: Right, right.Sy Hoekstra: So that's one of the nonsense things that shows up in the conversation as a result of a nonsense thing that we say that we think all the time on some subconscious level that we're not always talking about identity politics, even though we absolutely are. And it's because it's been forced upon us. It's not because somebody's trying to create divisions.Jonathan Walton: Right.The Democrats Are the Party the Non-White Working Class Voted ForSy Hoekstra: A similar thing is, I heard people talking about the Democrats are not the party of the working class anymore. The working class is not voting for the Democrats because, and then, obviously the White working class is voting for Trump, and then start to talk about the gains that Trump made among the non-White working class. Again, the majority of everybody in the non-White working class is not voting for Donald Trump. And assuming that voters have some idea of what's good for them and who better represents them, maybe not who best represents them, but who better represents them, the Democrats are still the party of the non-White work—we're talking about the White working class again, you know what I mean? We're trying to make it about economics and it's actually about race. That's a thing that we're doing all the time, constantly [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Well [laughs], the reality is that economics is about race.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: It's like, if we could just like get some daylight between them, then maybe we could make a separation. And so then it just becomes about keeping that separation in place, because if we bring them back together, the system falls apart. It literally crumbles if you call it out. And something that I'll just name, because I think in all these conversations, even as me and Sy are saying, oh, this Democrat about that Democrat, like this is the Republican or that race, when we call out differences, when we name things, our goal is not to dehumanize anybody, dismiss people's needs or grievances, or minimize the reality and perspectives that people have.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, absolutely.Jonathan Walton: The goal and hope is that we would actually grasp reality, name the idol and follow Jesus.Sy Hoekstra: Right. Yeah, exactly.Jonathan Walton: That is our goal and our hope and our aim, because if we can't say it as is, we will never be able to address and communicate with the most marginalized people. And we'll never be able to communicate a vision that draws people in power towards something even more loving and beautiful, unless we name the thing as it is. And so hopefully that is breaking through to folks who might come across this conversation.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, I agree. I can get very passionate about these facts and stats and whatever. And I'm not trying to say that anyone who doesn't…Jonathan Walton: No [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: …agree with me is somehow a bad person. I'm just, this is, it's important, like you said. It's an important goal that I'm trying to move us toward.Jonathan, we got a great question from a listener that I wanted to talk about. You cool moving on, or do you have more thoughts?Jonathan Walton: No, no. Let's do it.What Can the Church Do about Continuing Anti-Blackness?Sy Hoekstra: Alright. So what can the church, practically speaking, do about ongoing anti-Blackness in the country? And not just correct disinformation or post on social media, what can the church practically speaking do? That was the question. Jonathan, solve anti-Blackness. Go.Support Black Spaces, No Strings AttachedJonathan Walton: There's a reason that enrollment at HBCUs is surging right now.Sy Hoekstra: Ah, okay.Jonathan Walton: And that is because when the world is unsafe or feels unsafe, or the reality that, “Oh, trying to get to the master's table and eat is actually not that great,” we're gonna recede back into our communities. And so I think one thing that the church can do is support Black spaces. So financially support Black spaces, empower Black spaces. I did not say create Black spaces moderated by you, that you will then curate for, andSy Hoekstra: Control.Jonathan Walton: Yes, control would be the right word, for an experience that other people can observe. Like, “Oh, this is what Black people really think.” Like no, just support Black spaces. Black, sacred, safe spaces that help and care for us in this moment. The number of Black women that are being harassed online, like showing up to their jobs, walking down the streets in different cities, is radically disturbing to me.And if we wanna get into the intersectionality of it, like when we talk about like Black, queer people, the numbers that the Trevor Project is recording, it's like the Trevor Project is a alphabet community support organization, particularly to prevent suicide. And so their phone calls are up in the last two weeks. So I think we as a church, as followers of Jesus need to create and then sustain spaces for Black folks to hang out in and feel a part of that we control. Kathy Khang, the author of Raise Your Voice said in a workshop that I was in one time, “Spaces that marginalized communities are in, we feel like renters, we don't feel like owners.” So we can't move the furniture. We're not really responsible for anything, but we're just, we could exist there and do what we need to do.Sy Hoekstra: But it's not a home.Jonathan Walton: It's not a home. And so I would want to encourage churches, small groups, bible studies, community groups, parachurch organizations to create spaces for Black folks by Black folks to be able to thrive in and feel a sense of community in. The other thing that I would say is that the church could educate itself around the complexities of Blackness. And so there's the Black, racially assigned Black Americans in the United States that are the descendants of enslaved people. Then there's Caribbean folks that are the descendants of enslaved Africans and the colonizers there. And then there's Central and South American and Mexican. There's a lot of beauty and complexity in Blackness.And so obviously, Ta-Nehisi Coates's book The Message, talks about that in ways that are exceptionally helpful and complex. So that would be a great book to dive into. And again, create educational, engaging spaces around. This education, quote- unquote, educating yourself, not asking Black folks to spend their time educating you. Doing that work, creating those spaces, supporting those spaces financially, time, resources, et cetera, and creating spaces for Black folks to feel and be safe, I think would be just exceptionally helpful in this season. Yes, share on social media. Yes, send messages to your friends. Yes, do all those things on your own time and on your own dime. But I think these are two things that could be helpful because it's not gonna go away the next four years. It's probably gonna be more intense. And so I think creating and sustaining of those places would be helpful.Sy Hoekstra: At least sustaining, you don't have to create.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, that's true. There are some that are already there. That's true. Find a place, donate, support, host. Hey, provide the space. Buy food, yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And the reason I say that is you could end up with people who just go to Black people and are like, “Hey, we'll give you money and you get to do a bunch of work to create a space or,” you know what I mean? And there's also the instinct to say, if we're gonna support something, we have to create it.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: We don't. We can support things that other people are already doing. There might be people in your congregation who are already doing that as their job. Just give them money. You know what I mean?Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: The more you're not in charge, the fewer strings are attached. Jonathan already talked about that. Even if those strings are implicit or not even there, but they're just perceived to be there, and that could be a problem too. So it's good to just give money to stuff that already exists or give support. Give volunteer work, whatever. Good, I appreciate that. Thank you for having practical answers.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. No worries. I'm glad you sent it to me earlier so I could think about it.Educating Ourselves on Fighting Racism Works (Sometimes)Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. Yeah [laughs]. Continuing to educate ourselves is a good thing too. And I think I've actually seen some of the difference in that. I know this is, there is so far to go and there's so much to do in terms of educating ourselves, but I can personally tell you from having watched a lot of Christians go through the Trayvon Martin case and Ferguson and everything. And I'm saying Christians who want to be supportive of Black people, who want to be helpful, who want to be anti-racist, all that stuff. I saw a lot of people who in 2012, ‘13, ‘14 were just like babies. Just starting out, didn't know what to say. Didn't know whether they could go protest, didn't know why All Lives Matter wasn't appropriate. Like, “Don't all lives matter though?” All that kind of stuff.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Even when you're trying to be helpful, you know what I mean?Jonathan Walton: Right, right, right.Sy Hoekstra: And then 2020 comes around and I saw a bunch of those exact same people being like, “I'm gonna go march! Black Lives Matter, let's go.” You know what I mean? So people really can learn and they really can change. And the problem is that you just have to keep doing it to every new generation of people that comes up, and it takes years to do. It's not something that you can do in a couple of sermons or one course that you take or whatever. And again, I know they're so far to go, I'm not trying to say… I understand that you can work for years. A White person can work for years, and the differences can be trivial and frustrating and like enraging. But it's also true that people can learn [laughs]. And talking about meeting people where they are, that's kind of what I'm saying to White people as we're trying to educate ourselves and others.Educating Each Other about Race Is a Long, Continuous ProcessJonathan Walton: Yeah, and to build off of something that you said before too, it's like Donald Trump was elected eight years ago, and some people were not alive eight years ago. And some people were 10 years old, eight years ago. So they didn't even…Sy Hoekstra: And now they're voting.Jonathan Walton: And now they're voting. So like Trayvon Martin was killed 12 years ago. They may not have the same knowledge as you, the same awareness as you. So yes, the education and the engagement is ongoing because there's always people that are coming up that had no idea. And I think just going back to what we said in the first part, like you were just saying again, meeting people where they're at because maybe they were too young and they just don't know. Like I was having a conversation this past week and someone said, “Yeah, my mom and dad have been sick. I've made 10 trips to another city the last two years to try and take care of them.” Maybe their world is just small because they've been engaged in loving the people closest to them through illness.We must meet people as best as we possibly can where they're at. And I confess, I have not always done that. And so being able to not be prideful and not be dismissive, and not look down on someone from being ignorant to simply not knowing. And even loving someone who's exceptionally misinformed. As we're doing this recording, one of my friends is meeting with a Christian nationalist right now. Like they're going there. They said, “Alright, can you pray for me, I'm going to have this conversation.” Because it is one conversation at a time that these things change.Sy Hoekstra: I appreciate that. You just reminded me of another story I had, and I won't give details about the individual, but there's someone in my life who is a White person who's from the south, who lives in New York City, who's just one of those people that makes Black people uncomfortable, Jonathan. Just like the moment you meet him, you're like, “something… hmm, I don't know.” And I've heard other Black people talk about him this way. I've heard stuff that's made me uncomfortable. And he was just an easy person to kind of like shun or avoid.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, for sure.Sy Hoekstra: Until I ran into another extremely kind Black person who told me… we ended up not because of me, because of someone else, in a conversation about this guy, and how he sort of makes people uncomfortable. And he was like, yeah, but he just said in not so many words, I kind of tolerate him because he lost his entire family in Hurricane Katrina, and he lives in New York City and basically has nobody and just works this kind of dead-end job and is not a very happy person. Actually, he is kind of a happy person. He's sort of trying to make the best of it, and he doesn't know what he is doing. You know what I mean? It's just like, you have one of those moments with someone where you're like, “Boy, that changes my view of this person.”Jonathan Walton: Right [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: I still don't think any of the things that you're saying to make people uncomfortable are okay, and I'll try and interfere in whatever limited way I can or whatever. But you hear something like that, your heart changes a little bit. You know what I mean?Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: Your attitude changes and like, you just, we gotta get to know each other better. We gotta listen better.We Need Endurance and Truly Practical WisdomSy Hoekstra: I think this question about what can the church do about anti-Blackness, for people who are like kind of our age or older, or people who have been through the 2010s and everything that happened up till now. It's just, it's a question of resilience. And whenever you're engaged in anti-Blackness work or any sort of activist work, you're gonna have these questions of resilience of like, what can we do, because this problem is just still going. And then there's another question of the practicality of it when you're asking that question in the church. I'm gonna define the question a little bit or reframe the question a little bit and then give answers.When you ask the question of something like, what can we practically do about a problem in a Christian context, the question is a little bit strange sometimes, and I think you just gave some good practical answers, but we have both noticed, we talked about this recently. In the Christian world, the word “Practical” often means something different than it does to the rest of the world [laughs].Jonathan Walton: That's true. That's true. Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: The phrase practical application just seems to have a different meaning to pastors than it does to everybody else [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And what it tends to mean to professional Christians is, when you're talking about practical application, you're talking about a new way of thinking or a new goal for how you should feel about something.Jonathan Walton: [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.Sy Hoekstra: Or like a new “heart posture” or something like that.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: It's a new attitude, but it's not practical. You actually said recently, you came out of a sermon going, “Okay, I kind of know how to think, I don't know what to do with my body. Now, after listening to this sermon.” You know what I mean?Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Right, right [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: I know what to do with my heart and my head. I don't know what to do with my hands and my feet. And we're supposed to be the hands and feet of Jesus, not the heart and the brain.Jonathan Walton: Right [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: And I think, actually, I don't wanna sound like a conspiracy theorist here, but I think that problem, it at least promotes racism [laughter]. It promotes institutions remaining as they are. You know what I mean? It promotes, like when we talk about practicality and we're just talking about how we kind of think about things, like the world of ideas and emotions and not what we do politically or whatever, that is a subtle way to reinforce status quo institutions.Jonathan Walton: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely, it is.Sy Hoekstra: And it's not anything to do with the person who asked the question. I'm just acknowledging the reality of how that question lands to Christian ears.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Yes. Especially institutionalized Christians. Yes, absolutely.The Church Isn't Necessarily the Best Place to Go to Fight RacismSy Hoekstra: And another thing is, I will say, we're talking about the church, the whole wide capital C church. The Black church, is gonna keep doing what it's always done. Black church is gonna do anti-racist work. Obviously, there are problems and questions and whatever that Black people have in their conversations among themselves within the Black church about how to do that best, or what things may be getting in the way of that or whatever. But if you're talking about big picture here, Black church is always fighting racism. I think we're kind of asking questions about the rest of the church. The White church in particular, and then some other churches as well. If we're just talking about the American church in general and what it can do to fight anti-Blackness, if you look at the history of just big picture American church, there are Christians in the United States on both sides of this past election.There are Christians in the United States in history on both sides of the Civil War. There are Christians in the United States on both sides of segregation versus civil rights. There are Christians in the abolition movement, there are obviously Christians in the pro-slavery movement. Christians set up the system of racism and slavery. European Christians did.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: The American church, if you just look at history, is a weird place, is a weird institution to look to, to end anti-Blackness. We have been consistently ambivalent about it for centuries. Do you know what I mean? I understand…Jonathan Walton: No, listen. It's true, and that's sad.Sy Hoekstra: Yes, yes.Jonathan Walton: That reality is depressing, right.Good Things Come from God, Not the ChurchSy Hoekstra: Horribly depressing. And so I understand, one, you just don't want that to be real. So you say, “Hey, what can we do?” Or, you want, and when I say you, again, I don't mean the question asker because I haven't had a conversation or back-and-forth. I'm just saying this is what people could be asking when they ask this question. It could also be the instinct of a lot of White evangelicals, which I can tell you this question asker is not, have the instinct when we say, what can the church do, of kind of thinking that if there's anything good is going to happen in the world, it has to come from the church, and that is so wrong. It is not biblically accurate. You can't look at scripture and go, “Yeah, everything good has to come from the church.” Goodness comes from God. God is the source of goodness, and God sends the rain on the righteous and the unrighteous, and we are very much among the unrighteous. God is the source of goodness, and so we need to acknowledge that we can find goodness outside of the church.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, that's a point worth repeating.Sy Hoekstra: Right [laughs]. We can find goodness outside of the church. I will repeat it [laughter]. We can in our congregations have fights that can go on for years and years about how we can just try and move anyone toward anti-Blackness work, and you can work for forever and you can see no fruit. And you could have spent all that time taking the few Christians, because there's always a handful, even in a [laughs], in any church, there's a few people who are sympathetic to whatever you're trying to do.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: You can just take them and you are the church, you and your Christians, and go do work with somebody else. You can go to your local mutual aid organization. You can go to your local Black Lives Matter chapter. You can go to whoever. You can go find the people who are doing the work and work with them, and that's fine, because it's still good and it therefore still comes from God. And we don't have to subtly participate or subconsciously participate in the idea that everything good has to come from the church, which is ultimately a colonial and colonizing idea. That is what a church that is going into a country trying to colonize it wants you to think, “Everything good comes from us, so you gotta come here [laughs] for the good stuff. And all those people out there, those are the bad people.”Jonathan Walton: [inhales deeply and sighs] Right. No, I mean, yeah, everything you're saying is true. That was my big sigh there [laughter].All Justice Work Requires Real, Local CommunitySy Hoekstra: So I read a thing this week from Camille Hernandez who wrote a really great book called The Hero and the W***e, which is a look through a womanist theological lens at what we can learn from what the Bible says about basically sexual violence. Fascinating book. Anyways, she was talking about her reading of Mariame Kaba, who I've cited before in this show, who is a famous abolitionist organizer, who basically said a lot of people who have a lot of influence, activists who have a lot of influence, can be sort of confused and unmoored at times like this because they have a lot of influence. They have a lot of people that they can call to go do a march or whatever. But what they don't have is a local community. So like what I was just talking about, taking the few people in your church, if you have a few people in your church and going and doing the work somewhere else, that's your small community.You need people who are on the same page as you, who you love, and they love you and you're there to support each other, and they will ground you in times like this, doing that work together. We'll ground you in times like this and it will give you a way to move forward. It will give you a sense of purpose, it will give you accountability. That's also a fraught word if you grew up in the church [laughter]. But it will give you the good kind of accountability to be able to do the work of anti-Blackness or fight any other kind of injustice, frankly. So that's one important thing.KTF's PACE Guide Will Help You Engage Practically with InjusticeSy Hoekstra: I also think if you want a good framework for how to do things practically when you are fighting anti-Blackness or other forms of injustice, go get our PACE guide [laughs]. We have a guide that we produced a few months ago.If you have signed up recently on our newsletter, or if you want to sign up for our free mailing list, you get it in the welcome email. If you were on our list before a few months ago, you have it in one of your old emails. It's basically a guide for when you encounter issues of injustice in the news or in your everyday life or wherever, how to process it and do something about it in a way that is, actually takes into account your limitations and your strengths, and helps you think through those things and help you kind of grow as you run through this cycle of steps and questions and prayers that we have for you to go through as you are thinking through these things. So PACE is the acronym. You can find out what it stands for and how to go through it if you go get that guide, sign up for our free emailing list if you don't have it. And that will give you a good sense of how to think through you personally in your context, how you can fight anti-Blackness.Jonathan Walton: Exactly.Sy Hoekstra: But yeah, on a bigger scale, the reason I'm talking about small things like community and how you personally can work, is I'm not thinking on as grand a scale as what can the church do to end anti-Blackness. Because we're not God, we are not saviors. We are not here to fix everything. God is here to do all those things. So I'm more asking, how do I join in with stuff that's already happening? And again, that's not like a correction to the question asker. It's just where I'm at [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Well no, it's a reorientation.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: I think something that, and I don't know if this is a generational thing, and I think that me being 38 years old, I have been shaped in a certain way to believe and want institutions to answer big questions as opposed to gathering a group of people and having a community instead of an institution. There's still work that God is doing in me around that, in that communities are vehicles for transformation in the kingdom and institutions it seems are vehicles for power in the world. That's something I'm wrestling with myself because I do think that one of the answers to anti-Blackness is beloved community, not as a concept, but like a practical thing. Like we are checking in on each other, we are going out to dinner, we are sharing recipes.Sy Hoekstra: Yes.Jonathan Walton: We are sending memes and funny videos like that. That is actually some aid that can lift our spirits each day amidst an empire that desires to destroy us.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. I think a lot of my journey trying to figure out how to do more justice work and follow Jesus, has been asking those smaller questions about what can I do in my own community? Just because I have, you and I, we have limited influence, and we have a church institution that has supported anti-Blackness in a lot of ways and those are just realities. And they're really sad, and the idea that a lot of the church is kind of useless and sort of opposed to the things of God, a lot of people don't wanna accept that. But I think if you don't accept that, you're gonna be running into these frustrations a lot. Like why is the church not doing this? And then trying to find probably solace in just really small things. Like okay, is my church's theology better than yours, or is my… You know, like in things that are not making a difference in the world [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right. Right.The Church Has to Trust in Grace, Not Save the WorldSy Hoekstra: So, I don't know, man. Look, the beauty of the church is not in how good it is. The church is beautiful in the light of Christ, not in the light of its own good work in goodness. The church is beautiful because… the church is beautiful when, not because, when [laughs] it is people collectively trying to put their faith in the grace that governs the universe, and not put their faith in their own ability to bring the kingdom of God into this world. And that's such a hard thing to do. We so wanna make an institution that is good, that is fundamentally good and that we're a part of it [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Well, it's a hard thing to do and accept.Sy Hoekstra: Yes.Jonathan Walton: Because in how we have been cultured downstream of colonization, if there is no effort, then I don't get a gold star, then I'm not included. Like, what do you mean? What do you mean that I'm supposed to play a small part? No, no. I'm supposed to be a star.Sy Hoekstra: I'm supposed to change the world.Jonathan Walton: I'm supposed to change the world, and I'm supposed to build something. I'm supposed to make something. Like we're an entrepreneurial event, we're supposed to do that. And Jesus hung out for 30 years, and then went and got 12 seemingly disqualified people [laughs] to go and do this thing, and then drafted Paul who was woefully unhelpful, the majority of Jesus' journey to then go and take his stuff to the rest of the world. Come on man. This is [laughs]… it's really hard to say yes to that.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: But when you experience it like you were saying, to live in the grace that governs the universe changes your life.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. People who are free of the need to prove themselves by defeating evil, right [laughs]?Jonathan Walton: Lord have mercy [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: That—look, to me that is a beautiful thing. That is one of the things that animates me, that motivates me. That makes me want to get out there and do more. Which is, I don't know, it's counterintuitive. It's counterintuitive to me, but it also works on me. So [laughs] I'm gonna keep focusing on it.Jonathan Walton: Amen.Season Wrap-Up Thoughts, Outro, and OuttakeSy Hoekstra: Do you have more thought—I think that's a good place to end it, Jonathan. I don't know if you have more thoughts.Jonathan Walton: No, I don't have more thoughts.Sy Hoekstra: Okay, great.Jonathan Walton: I appreciate that you as a White person, or racially assigned White person who's aware of their heritage and trying to engage as best you possibly can across this difference, have so many thoughts. I think that is helpful actually.Sy Hoekstra: Oh, good. Thanks. I appreciate that [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. And I say that because there's a pastor that I follow, Ben Cremer, he's in Idaho, and experiences that I've had with different leaders, it is exceptionally empowering and feels like a burden is lifted off of my shoulders when people who don't have to carry the burden of Blackness are trying to be thoughtful around how to stop anti-Blackness.Sy Hoekstra: Oh, I mean, ditto ableism man.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: If this is your first episode, I'm blind and Jonathan does the same thing to me on those grounds. And I think that's a lot of why our thoughts in relationship works. I'm not good at taking compliments, so I'm just throwing it back on you [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. No worries. It's all good. If you haven't seen it, somebody should google “Christian Affirmation Rap Battle” where they just try to compliment battle each other. It is amazing. [laughter].Sy Hoekstra: I'm absolutely gonna do that because that sounds like brilliant and pointed satire.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Alright. Thank you all so much for listening. This has been an incredible season, man. I've had a lot of fun. Fun is a relative word [laughter] when we're talking about the things that we're doing. I've had, I don't know, a very motivating and helpful and stimulating time talking to a lot of the people that we talked to four years ago when we started this, who wrote for us.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: If you haven't listened to those interviews, go back in the season, they're really, really helpful. I feel like they're probably even more helpful in light of how the election turned out. And I don't know, I just appreciate this. I feel like it's been fun. We didn't do it this time, but when we're doing Which Tab Is Still Open and adding, talking about some of our newsletter highlights, I've really appreciated that. I feel like it makes the episode very meaty when we have an interview and some other conversation in there too, and I've just liked what we've put out this season. So thank you, Jonathan for participating in that. Thank you everybody so much for listening.Jonathan Walton: Yep. Yep. And I'm deeply appreciative. I think a brief Which Tab is Still Open that I thought was gonna close was our anthology.Sy Hoekstra: Oh, alright.Jonathan Walton: [laughs] I will say we started this four years ago with the anthology and as we're ending this season, the anthology is probably one of the most relevant things.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: The leaders that wrote in it, the contributors to it, that work and those essays, I hate and love that they are still relevant.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, right. Same.Jonathan Walton: …and helpful. If you don't have a copy, you should go get one.Sy Hoekstra: Keepingthefaithbook.com, that's where you can find it.Jonathan Walton: Yep.Sy Hoekstra: Thank you all so much for listening. Remember, get the Substack app to listen to our monthly recordings of the, the live recordings of our bonus episodes. And if you want to get the recordings of those bonus episodes after the fact, or join our monthly subscriber Zoom calls, become a paid subscriber @ktfpress.com. Or get a discounted or free subscription by just writing into us if money is an obstacle. Make sure you add us to your contacts or drag and drop our emails to your inbox if they're in your promotions folder, just so that you can get everything from us that you need. That's how you're gonna get notified if you don't have the app. That's how you'll get notified when our Substack Lives start.Our theme song is Citizens by Jon Guerra. Our podcast Art is by Robin Burgess. Transcripts by Joyce Ambale, and our editing for a lot of this season was done by Multitude Productions. We are so incredibly grateful for them, they have been friendly and fantastic. Thank you, Brandon, our editor.Jonathan Walton: Appreciate you.Sy Hoekstra: I produced this show along with our incredible paid subscribers. Thank you so much. If you are one of those paid subscribers, we will see you next month. Otherwise, we will see you for season five.Jonathan Walton: See y'all.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Sy Hoekstra: A multi disc Encyclopedia Britannica.Jonathan Walton: Basically.Sy Hoekstra: Do you remember those? Did you have that when you were a kid?Jonathan Walton: I, we definitely bought, my mama definitely bought them. You are absolutely right.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: She did. That man showed up with that suitcase and he left empty handed. That was his goal, he made it.Sy Hoekstra: Oh no [laughs]. Oh no.Jonathan Walton: And you best believe we read all them books.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs]. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ktfpress.com/subscribe

Want to share your thoughts? Fill out our listener form Request A Customized Workshop For Your Company In this enlightening episode of Negotiate Anything, host Kwame Christian, Esq., M.A., sits down with Grande Lum, a seasoned mediator and author, to explore the history and importance of mediation in America. Grande Lum, who has held influential roles at the Department of Justice and various academic institutions, shares his rich experiences mediating high-profile civil rights conflicts. This conversation not only highlights pivotal moments where mediation has quietly shaped American history but also delves into the practical aspects of effective community mediation and racial reconciliation. Listeners will gain an understanding of the essential skills needed to foster constructive dialogue and resolve disputes in their own communities. What Will Be Covered: The historical significance of the Community Relations Service in mediating civil rights conflicts. Grande Lum's firsthand experiences with major incidents like the Trayvon Martin case, and the Birmingham boycott. Best practices for effective community mediation and strategies for racial reconciliation. Follow Grande on LinkedIn  Contact ANI Request A Customized Workshop For Your Company Follow Kwame Christian on LinkedIn The Ultimate Negotiation Guide Click here to buy your copy of How To Have Difficult Conversations About Race! Click here to buy your copy of Finding Confidence in Conflict: How to Negotiate Anything and Live Your Best Life! What's in it for you? Exclusive Advice: Gain insights from top negotiation experts. Community Support: Connect with a like-minded community focused on growth. Personal & Professional Growth: Unlock strategies to enhance every aspect of your life. You deserve to negotiate more of the best things in life, and now you can! Don't wait—be the first in line to experience this game-changing resource.

Want to share your thoughts? Fill out our listener form Request A Customized Workshop For Your Company In this enlightening episode of Negotiate Anything, host Kwame Christian, Esq., M.A., sits down with Grande Lum, a seasoned mediator and author, to explore the history and importance of mediation in America. Grande Lum, who has held influential roles at the Department of Justice and various academic institutions, shares his rich experiences mediating high-profile civil rights conflicts. This conversation not only highlights pivotal moments where mediation has quietly shaped American history but also delves into the practical aspects of effective community mediation and racial reconciliation. Listeners will gain an understanding of the essential skills needed to foster constructive dialogue and resolve disputes in their own communities. What Will Be Covered: The historical significance of the Community Relations Service in mediating civil rights conflicts. Grande Lum's firsthand experiences with major incidents like the Trayvon Martin case, and the Birmingham boycott. Best practices for effective community mediation and strategies for racial reconciliation. Follow Grande on LinkedIn  Contact ANI Request A Customized Workshop For Your Company Follow Kwame Christian on LinkedIn The Ultimate Negotiation Guide Click here to buy your copy of How To Have Difficult Conversations About Race! Click here to buy your copy of Finding Confidence in Conflict: How to Negotiate Anything and Live Your Best Life! What's in it for you? Exclusive Advice: Gain insights from top negotiation experts. Community Support: Connect with a like-minded community focused on growth. Personal & Professional Growth: Unlock strategies to enhance every aspect of your life. You deserve to negotiate more of the best things in life, and now you can! Don't wait—be the first in line to experience this game-changing resource.

When a human body is discovered in the United States, there is a person who takes on the role of eyes and ears of the dead: the death investigator. There is a whole chain of officials from the police, to forensic pathologists, to families and loved ones that depend on these specialists to unlock stories the dead can no longer tell. No one knows this role like Joseph Scott Morgan.  In this episode, host Kathryn Fox and Joseph peel back the layers of this hidden world: the science, the secrets, and the sacrifices of those who witness the grim reality of death day in and day out.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tell Spencer your thoughts about this episode!Michael Huemer returns Micro-Digressions to discuss his new self-published book, Progressive Myths, which you can purchase here for a mere $12.50:Progressive Myths: Huemer, Michael: 9798332272073: Amazon.com: BooksDiscussed here: Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, and George Floyd cases, as well as some of the general patterns of police violence; the science of climate change and masking (compared with what activists say about these things), and the causes of progressive myths. 

Theodore (Ted) R. Johnson served twenty years in the United States Navy before becoming a columnist and author.  His latest book, If We Are Brave is a collection of essays on race in America, and in this Blue Sky conversation, Ted describes his pragmatic optimism and belief that the United States has in its founding ideals the path towards forming a “more perfect union.”  Ted's personal story is remarkable, rising from humble beginnings to become an officer in the US Navy, White House Fellow, and speechwriter for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.    Chapters: 02:33 Meet Ted Johnson: A Journey from the South Ted Johnson shares his upbringing in North Carolina, detailing the duality of growing up in a predominantly white suburb while attending a black church. His experiences shaped his worldview and influenced his educational and career choices.  06:10 From HBCU to the Navy Ted discusses his decision to attend Hampton University and how it led him to a career in the Navy. He reflects on how a chance encounter with a Navy recruiter changed his life trajectory.  09:43 A Career in the Navy: Unexpected Turns Ted recounts his 20-year journey in the Navy, highlighting key experiences that led him to become a speechwriter for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.   12:12 The Power of Writing: Ted's Passion Ted reveals his love for writing and how it became a central focus of his post-military career. He discusses his first book, ‘When the Stars Begin to Fall,' and the themes of racism and optimism that permeate his work.  18:09 Why Ted Loves America Ted explains his deep love for America, likening it to familial bonds. He reflects on the nation's promise of democracy and equality, despite its historical shortcomings.  20:15 Reflections on Progress Since Trayvon Martin Ted discusses the impact of Trayvon Martin's death on his perspective and activism. He evaluates the progress made in addressing racism in America over the past twelve years, noting both advancements and ongoing challenges.  25:45 The Role of Organizations in Promoting Diversity Ted shares his thoughts on how businesses can better reflect the communities they serve through diversity and inclusion efforts.   29:01 The Complexity of Affirmative Action Ted and Bill explore the nuances of affirmative action, discussing how perceptions change based on personal experiences.   32:01 The Founding Ideals vs. Historical Flaws The conversation shifts to the founding documents of the United States, emphasizing the need to separate the ideals from the flawed individuals who created them.   36:16 Introducing If We Are Brave Ted discusses his latest book, If We Are Brave, which aims to present a national conversation on race through his unique perspective. He shares insights into the essays included and the themes of optimism and realism that permeate his work.  39:49 The Legacy of Optimism Reflecting on his family's history, Ted shares how the optimism of his ancestors inspires him to believe in a better future for America.   42:12 New America and the US at 250 Initiative Ted introduces New America, a think tank focused on evolving policies to match societal changes, and discusses the US at 250 initiative. This project aims to commemorate the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence by fostering dialogue and understanding across diverse communities.  45:30 The Impact of ‘If We Are Brave' In the final segment, Ted expresses his hopes for readers of his book to gain a deeper understanding of race and democracy in America.  

Discover the inspiring journeys of Calyssa Zellars Kya Henley, founders of Saint Park Law, on this episode of the Jabot Podcast! Learn how these two dynamic lawyers navigated non-linear career paths, left big law to start their own firm, and stayed true to their mission. Gain insights into their unique approach to crisis management and investigations, the importance of intentional practice, and how they've blended personal passion with professional excellence. Don't miss this episode for a fresh take on entrepreneurship in law! Highlights Why law school? Personal motivations for impactful careers. Career transition: Becoming civil rights attorneys. Non-linear career path: From Detroit Lions to PR. Public defender experience: Passion fueled by Trayvon Martin case. Entrepreneurship: Founding Saint Park Law. Building a mission: Aligning skills with passion. Identity in firm name: Personal maternal lineage inspiration. Balancing work and life: Strategies for managing mental health. Advice for new lawyers: “No one knows you better than you.” Encouragement to be pioneers: Charting unique career paths. Episode Sponsored By  https://www.lexisnexis.com/lexisplus  Links and Resources https://www.saintparklaw.com/ https://www.instagram.com/saintparklaw/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/saint-park-llp/about/   Subscribe, Share and Review To get the next episode subscribe with your favorite podcast player. Subscribe with Apple Podcasts Follow on Spotify Leave a review on Apple Podcasts

Welcome to the Inclusion School Podcast! In today's episode, hosts Simone Morris and Julie Kratz welcome a remarkable guest, Latasha Morrison, the founder of Be the Bridge, an organization dedicated to promoting racial reconciliation and unity in America. Latasha shares her personal journey and the story behind Be the Bridge's inception, which stemmed from a deep commitment to addressing racial brokenness and fostering meaningful conversations across different ethnicities. Her work, inspired by pivotal moments like the tragic death of Trayvon Martin, aims to create pathways to understanding and historical truth. Tune in as Latasha discusses how parents, educators, and caregivers can foster inclusive environments and teach children about diversity and ethnicity. Don't miss this powerful conversation on building a lifestyle of inclusion and the steps we can all take to bridge the racial divides in our communities. To reach us, email talktous@inclusionschool.com  Grab resources mentioned in the show at https://inclusionschool.com/resources/ 

STS YouTube Channel: Surviving The Survivor: #BestGuests in True Crime - YouTubeIT'S HERE: STS HARDCOVER BOOK SIGNED COPIES FROM JOEL AND KARM: https://premierecollectibles.com/waldmanSTS Book on Audible: Https://www.audible.com/pd/Surviving-...STS Book on Amazon: Https://www.amazon.com/shop/surviving...STS Merch Store: https://www.bonfire.com/store/sts-store/STS Patreon: Https://patreon.com/SurvivingTheSurvivorSTS Website: https://survivingthesurvivor.com/All Things STS

Vic & Bryan chat with Director/Writer Reinaldo Marcus Green! The guys chat with Rei about his baseball background, his transition from baseball to film, the genesis of his short film "Stop"(loosely based on the story of Trayvon Martin), writing "Monsters And Men", the casting process for "Bob Marley: One Love", working with Will Smith on "King Richard", how to get the best out of actors, working with cinematographer Robert Elswit, his mentality toward finding the right projects, and much more!

On Aug. 9, 2014, Officer Darren Wilson shot and killed Michael Brown in Ferguson, MO. Police left Brown's lifeless body in the hot sun for four hours, plainly demonstrating the contempt of law enforcement for the local community. The righteous rebellion that followed in Ferguson shook the nation and the world, turning the Black Lives Matter movement that had begun following the earlier murder of Trayvon Martin into a global mass movement. Ten years later, some things have changed, but most things have not. Reforms have been passed at various levels concerning the power and accountability of the police. Yet the culture of impunity and the reality of racialized police violence as a daily occurrence in the US continues. In this special episode of Rattling the Bars, Taya Graham and Stephen Janis of Police Accountability Report join Mansa Musa for a look back on the past decade of attempts to stop police violence, and a discussion on why justice for Michael Brown and so many others continues to elude us.Studio Production: David Hebden, Cameron GranadinoPost-Production: Cameron GranadinoHelp us continue producing Rattling the Bars by following us and becoming a monthly sustainer.Sign up for our newsletterLike us on FacebookFollow us on TwitterDonate to support this podcast

The slogan Black Lives Matter, which had been coined in 2013 when Trayvon Martin's killer was exonerated, became a popular rallying cry in Ferguson and beyond.

The Civil Rights Movement is not the only Black movement, but it stands out with distinction for many reasons, including the way activism was more visible, thanks advancements in television usage and access which made the realities of segregation and brutality towards Black lives hard to ignore. Movements have proven to be both inspiring and have yielded some gains, but debates around how effective they are can prove to be emotional and tense. As with the rise of modern Black movements since the fatal tragedy of the murder of Trayvon Martin, questions around the purpose of sustainability of racial justice movements continue to spark passion and differences in theory and goals within Black spaces. Season 1 concludes with a spirited conversation with Two-time NY Times best-selling Author, Civil Rights Activist, Attorney, Entrepreneur, Legislator, and overall Prolific voice of the Culture, Bakari Sellers exploring the following questions: Do we need a modern day civil rights movement, and if so, how do we build it? Who leads the movement? And how do we tap into a sense of unified purpose to continue the progress of past movements?

Bishop Julius C. Trimble is the Resident Bishop of the Indiana Area of the United Methodist Church.Bishop Trimble has the personal mission to encourage all people with the love of Jesus Christ to rise to their highest potential. It is his commitment to his personal mission that led Bishop Trimble to create the “To Be Encouraged” Podcast along with co-host Rev.Dr. Brad Miller. Bishop Trimble says, “I am compelled by Jesus to share with you an encouraging word or two about Jesus, theology, the Bible, the pandemic, the environment, racism, voting rights, human sexuality, and the state of the United Methodist Church.” To Be Encouraged with Bishop Julius C. Trimble is to be published weekly and is available at www.tobeencouraged.com and all the podcast directories.https://www.inumc.org/bishop/office-of-the-bishop/**Episode 115: Reflections on Retirement: Encouraging Words from Bishop Julius Trimble on Faith, Love, and ServiceJoin us for an inspiring episode of *To Be Encouraged* as Rev. Dr. Brad Miller sits down with Bishop Julius C. Trimble to discuss his remarkable 16-year tenure as a bishop in the United Methodist Church, his thoughts on the denomination's future, and his upcoming transition out of the Episcopacy in the state of Indiana. This rich conversation provides heartfelt insights on the importance of love, preaching, and enduring faith in the face of challenges. Here are three key takeaways from the episode:### 1. The Power of Love and CommunityBishop Julius C. Trimble emphasizes that the core of United Methodist preaching—and indeed his own ministry—rests on the twin pillars of love for God and love for one's neighbor. This foundational belief has been the driving force behind his leadership, especially during times of societal unrest and personal discouragement. He reflects on the overwhelming support and prayers from church members, particularly following the tragic deaths of George Floyd and Trayvon Martin, underscoring the importance of collective encouragement and communal bonds in fostering resilience and hope.### 2. Enduring Through ChallengesRev. Dr. Brad Miller delves into how Bishop Trimble has managed moments of discouragement over his long career. Bishop Trimble speaks candidly about the difficulties faced by the United Methodist Church, including the impact of the pandemic and issues related to disaffiliation. His approach to overcoming these challenges involves drawing strength from personal faith, a robust support system, and the encouragement he receives from the community. He also acknowledges the evolving state of the church, highlighting the recent general conference's positive steps toward inclusivity and the ongoing need to address mental health concerns within pastoral leadership.### 3. A Vision for the FutureAs Bishop Trimble prepares to step down, he shares his optimism for the future of the United Methodist Church under the leadership of Bishop Malone. He talks about the importance of cultivating joy and a vision for a brighter future, expressing his belief in the church's enduring legacy of grace and service. Bishop Trimble encourages the community to continue looking for “glory sightings” or signs of God at work in their daily lives. He concludes the episode with a prayer, calling for kindness and hospitality to flourish in the world.### Tune InDon't miss this episode of *To Be Encouraged* for a profound conversation that blends personal reflections with actionable insights, driven by Bishop Trimble's enduring commitment to faith, love, and community. Join us as we explore the vital themes of leadership, change, and the power of shared belief in shaping a hopeful future.

On August 9, 2014, 18-year-old Michael Brown was shot and killed by police officer Darren Wilson in Ferguson, Missouri, a suburb of St. Louis. Just one year after the murder of Trayvon Martin set off fresh waves of racial unrest throughout the nation and in the church. Fanning the flame started after the acquittal of Trayvon's killer, #BlackLivesMatter became the banner under which the latest movement for Black freedom marched. Tyler and Jemar reflect on 10 years of racial revelations since Brown's death and asses what it all means for attempts at racial justice in the church. Support this podcast at patreon.com/passthemic Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Women at WIRC, Bree Jones, founder and CEO of Parity Homes, shares her transformative journey from Wall Street to affordable housing development. Driven by incidents of racial injustice and gentrification in her Bronx neighborhood, Bree purchased and renovated an abandoned building in the Bronx, providing a deeply affordable home for three families. She had found her calling, created Parity Homes, and moved her efforts to West Baltimore. Parity Homes focuses on revitalizing abandoned properties to create affordable housing, preserving historical and cultural significance, and strengthening the community. 00:00 Introduction 00:25 Meet Bree Jones of Parity Homes 01:00 Bree's Journey from Wall Street to Real Estate 01:37 The Impact of Trayvon Martin's Death 02:33 Gentrification and Its Effects 03:39 Starting Parity Homes in Baltimore 05:23 Challenges and Successes in Affordable Housing 10:12 The Importance of Preserving Historic Homes 16:13 Future Goals and Mentorship 17:16 Final Thoughts and Conference Announcement Women in Residential + Commercial Construction Conference: https://www.womensconstructionconference.com/2024/ Parity Homes: https://www.parityhomes.com/ Custom Builder Online: https://www.custombuilderonline.com/ Pro Builder: https://www.probuilder.com/ Pro Remodeler: https://www.proremodeler.com/

#1,024 - Joel Gilbert on Michelle Obama 2024 Are you here? Welcome to The Paul Leslie Hour where everyday is a holiday and every meal is a feast. On this episode, #1,024 we're welcoming Joel Gilbert to talk about the documentary film MICHELLE OBAMA 2024. The documentary explores "Her Real Life Story and Plan for Power." Joel Gilbert is a documentary filmmaker. Mr. Gilbert is also a writer, political commentator and the President of Highway 61 Entertainment. Gilbert has made a number of documentaries about disparate subjects: Bob Dylan, Trayvon Martin, Donald Trump, Barack Obama, etc. His documentary "Michelle Obama 2024" is generating lots of interest as speculation increases that President Joe Biden will not be the 2024 Democratic Party nominee. You can support The Paul Leslie Hour by going right here, and we thank you. Paul Leslie has been interviewing fascinating people for 20 years now and has welcomed some of the most iconic people ever: Woody Allen, Gene Wilder, Willie Nelson, Maya Angelou and so many others. He also regularly reviews books, albums and films. And now, it's time for a timely interview with Joel Gilbert. And it's right here on The Paul Leslie Hour. The Paul Leslie Hour is a talk show dedicated to “Helping People Tell Their Stories.” Some of the most iconic people of all time drop in to chat. Frequent topics include Arts, Entertainment and Culture.

It seems like a lifetime ago that Ta'Nehisi Coates was making his case for reparations, Ibrahim X. Kendi was teaching America how to be anti racist and a group of women from the West Coast launched a hashtag that for a time started a movement in Black Lives Matter. This was the impetus of  the racial reckoning that Kendi and others called a 3rd Reconstruction for Black Americans.   In 2014, Coates' essay in The Atlantic reignited a more serious conversation around reparations for African Americans, sparking a broader dialogue on the idea of systemic racism, historical injustices of redlining in housing and the need for meaningful change. That change would have to be redressed financially, because in capitalism, we can only solve the crisis of capitalism with more capitalism.    This moment is preceded with the early rise of the Black Lives Matter movement, which emerged in response to the acquittal of George Zimmerman in the killing of Trayvon Martin. The movement brought issues of police brutality and racial inequality and in some cases mass incarceration to the forefront of public consciousness, leading to widespread protests and calls for justice.   Over the next several years, the Black political vision became increasingly centered on identity politics, emphasizing the importance of representation and recognition in addressing racial disparities. This focus, however, gradually evolved, as it always does, into a form of patronage politics, where symbolic victories often took precedence over substantive policy changes. Corporate and philanthropic foundations played a significant role in shaping the agenda, funding initiatives that prioritized diversity and inclusion over federally backed plans to tackle deeper systemic issues.   By the time of the George Floyd uprisings in 2020, it seemed as though a transformative moment had arrived. The protests were unprecedented in their scale and intensity, with millions demanding an end to police violence and systemic racism. Yet, despite the outpouring of activism and foundation money and the apparent momentum for change, the underlying structures of power remained largely unchallenged.   Fast forward to today, and we are witnessing a troubling return to "tough on crime" policies reminiscent of the 1990s. Fear of crime and visible homelessness have fueled public anxiety, prompting political leaders in major metropolitan cities like San Francisco, New York, and Los Angeles to revert to strategies that prioritize law and order over social justice. This shift highlights the limitations of a decade-long racial reckoning that, while significant, ultimately fell short of achieving the transformative change many had hoped for.   As we examine this period, we must ask ourselves: What were the successes and failures of this era of racial reckoning? How did identity politics shape the movement, and what role did foundations play in guiding its direction? Most importantly, how can we learn from this history to build a more effective and lasting movement for racial justice in the future?   Join us as we delve into these questions and more, exploring the complex legacy of the past decade's racial reckoning and its implications for the ongoing struggle for equality and justice in America.   Thank you guys again for taking the time to check this out. We appreciate each and everyone of you. If you have the means, and you feel so inclined,   BECOME A PATRON! We're creating patron only programing, you'll get bonus content from many of the episodes, and you get MERCH!   Become a patron now https://www.patreon.com/join/BitterLakePresents?   Please also like, subscribe, and follow us on these platforms as well, (specially YouTube!)   THANKS Y'ALL   YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG9WtLyoP9QU8sxuIfxk3eg Twitch: www.twitch.tv/thisisrevolutionpodcast www.twitch.tv/leftflankvets​ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Thisisrevolutionpodcast/ Twitter: @TIRShowOakland Instagram: @thisisrevolutionoakland   Read Jason Myles in Sublation Magazine https://www.sublationmag.com/writers/jason-myles   Read Jason Myles in Damage Magazine https://damagemag.com/2023/11/07/the-man-who-sold-the-world/   Pascal Robert's Black Agenda Report: https://www.blackagendareport.com/author/Pascal%20Robert

durée : 00:58:07 - Cultures Monde - par : Julie Gacon - Dix ans après l'acquittement du meurtrier de Trayvon Martin, un adolescent noir assassiné en Floride, peut-on dresser un bilan des luttes de Black Lives Matter ? Ont-ils réussi à faire de ce sujet une vraie question de société ? - invités : Charlotte Recoquillon Géographe, chercheuse à l'Institut français de géopolitique, enseignante à Science Po et journaliste spécialiste des Etats-Unis.; Simon Grivet Historien spécialiste de l'histoire du droit et de la justice aux Etats-Unis et maître de conférences à l'université de Lille; David Diallo Maître de conférences en civilisation américaine à l'Université de Bordeaux

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Today's episode features Jonathan and Sy talking with Pastor Rasool Berry. They discuss:-        The importance of acknowledging and understanding your own and your community's power-        The social and spiritual forces behind the opposition to CRT or DEI (or whatever they're calling it today)-        Pastor Berry's incredible documentary about Juneteenth and Christian faith-        When to leave communities that push back against racial justice-        And after the interview, Sy and Jonathan reflect on the work it takes to pass on a tradition like Juneteenth well, and the truly, literally unbelievable levels of ignorance whiteness creates in people-        Plus, they discuss the Daniel Perry pardon, and the threads that connect it to the Donald Trump convictionsMentioned in the Episode-        Our anthology - Keeping the Faith: Reflections on Politics and Christianity in the era of Trump and Beyond-        An abridged version of Pastor Berry's article from the anthology.-        His subsequent article, “Uncritical Race Theory”-        The documentary Juneteenth: Faith and Freedom-        Resources for screening Juneteenth and inviting speakers involved with the film-        The soundtrack for Juneteenth-        Pastor Berry's podcast, Where Ya From?-        The article on Daniel Perry Sy put in our newsletter-        The Texas Monthly article about how legally unusual Perry's pardon wasCredits-        Follow KTF Press on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads. Subscribe to get our bonus episodes and other benefits at KTFPress.com.-        Follow host Jonathan Walton on Facebook Instagram, and Threads.-        Follow host Sy Hoekstra on Mastodon.-        Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra – listen to the whole song on Spotify.-        Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess – follow her and see her other work on Instagram.-        Transcripts by Joyce Ambale and Sy Hoekstra.-        Production by Sy Hoekstra and our incredible subscribersTranscript[An acoustic guitar softly plays six notes, the first three ascending and the last three descending – F#, B#, E, D#, B – with a keyboard pad playing the note B in the background. Both fade out as Jonathan Walton says “This is a KTF Press podcast.”]Rasool Berry: There was a lot of nicknames and still are for Juneteenth. One was Emancipation Day, Freedom Day, but Jubilee Day. And when I discovered that, that's when I said we got to get involved in this process. Because you mean to tell me that these formerly enslaved people at a time when it was illegal to read, that they understood enough of the story that they picked out this festival, that it was this reordering of society, the kingdom of heaven coming back to earth. And in the context of this, of their faith, they saw God doing a jubilee in their lives?[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]IntroductionSy Hoekstra: Welcome to Shake the Dust, seeking Jesus, confronting injustice. I'm Sy Hoekstra.Jonathan Walton: And I'm Jonathan Walton. Today, hear us talk to Pastor Rasool Berry about his thoughts on the movement against CRT, or DEI, or whatever the term for the moment is right now when you listen to this. We're also [laughs] going to talk about his incredible feature length documentary called Juneteenth: Faith and Freedom, which is available for free on YouTube right now. And then after the interview, hear our thoughts on the pardon of Daniel Perry and the conviction of Donald Trump in our segment, Which Tab Is Still Open?Sy Hoekstra: The 34 convictions of Donald Trump.Jonathan Walton: All of them.Sy Hoekstra: All of them [laughs]. We're going to talk about each one individually…Jonathan Walton: Exactly.Sy Hoekstra: …the specific business record that he destroyed, whatever.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Don't be afraid, we're not going to do that. By the way, I said at the end of last week that the guest this week was going to be Brandi Miller, and then we realized that we had to do the episode that was about Juneteenth before Juneteenth. So Brandi Miller's going to be in two weeks from now. And this time [laughs], it's Pastor Rasool Berry.Before we get to that, just a reminder, we need your subscriptions. Please go to ktfpress.com and become a paid subscriber on our Substack. Your support sustains what we do, and we need that support from you right now. We've been doing this as a side project for a long time, and like we've been saying, if we want this show to continue past this season, we need to get a lot more subscribers so that we can keep doing this work, but not for free as much as we've been doing it.So go and subscribe. That gets you all the bonus episodes of this show, which there are many, many of at this point. And then it also gets you access to our new monthly subscriber conversations that we're doing. Jonathan and I will be having video chats with you to talk about all the different kinds of things that we talk about on this show, answer some questions, just have a good time. And if you cannot afford a subscription, if money's the only obstacle, just write to us at info@ktfpress.com. We will give you a free or discounted subscription, no questions asked. But if you can afford it, please, ktfpress.com. Become a paid subscriber. We need your support now.Jonathan Walton: Pastor Rasool Berry serves as teaching pastor at The Bridge Church in Brooklyn, New York. He's also the director of partnerships and content development with Our Daily Bread Ministries. Pastor Berry graduated from the University of Pennsylvania with a bachelor's degree in Africana Studies and Sociology. He's also the host of the Where Ya From? podcast sponsored by Christianity Today, and the writer, producer and host of Juneteenth: Faith and Freedom. Let's get to it. Here's the interview.[the intro piano music from “Citizens” by Jon Guerra plays briefly and then fades out.]Sy Hoekstra: Pastor, thank you so much for joining us on Shake the Dust today.Rasool Berry: Oh, well, I'm glad to be here with you all, back at it again, Keeping the Faith.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. Yes, exactly [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Amen. Amen.The Importance of “Mapping” PowerSy Hoekstra: So, you wrote this fantastic essay for… so, well, actually, it was originally for your blog, I think, and then we kind of took it and adapted it for the anthology. And it was about critical race theory, and you broke down a lot of the history and sort of the complex intellectual background of it and everything. But you talked specifically about something that you said, critical race theory and the Bible and the Black Christian tradition in the US all help us do something really important, and that thing is mapping power. Can you talk to us a little bit about what power mapping is and what the importance of it is?Rasool Berry: Yeah. I first kind of got wind of that framework when we were launching a justice ministry at our church. And two friends Gabby, Dr. Gabby Cudjoe Wilkes and her husband, Dr. Andrew Wilkes, who do a lot of great work with justice, actually walked our church through thinking about mapping power in our church as a way of evaluating what types of justice initiatives did it make sense for us to engage in, in light of what we had in the room. And so for instance, when I was in my church in Indiana, a lot of the parishioners worked at Lilly who's headquarters is in Indiana. And so when they decided to do something for the community, they ended up opening up a clinic in the church building, which still exists and serves the local community, because they all had medical backgrounds.So when they do mission work, they do mission work with a medical component, because that's a effective way of mapping power. Where our church in Brooklyn average age is about 28, 29 and they're more artsy. So we're not opening up clinics, you know what I mean? But what we can do is events that help inspire and help engage with people. And then eventually with our pastor's leadership started something called Pray March Act, which looks to be a place to mobilize churches around issues of justice in New York City. So what is oftentimes overlooked in Christian spaces, and I really am indebted to Andy Crouch and his book, Playing God: Redeeming the Gift of Power, for really surfacing the need for us to have a theology of power.That this is something that oftentimes especially evangelical churches, or more kind of Bible oriented or people kind of churches, there's a sense in which we don't know how to think about power. And I believe, I suspect this is one of the reasons why the church has been so susceptible to issues like sexual abuse, to egregious theft in money, is because we are not really conditioned to think about power, which is really ironic because the scriptures really do point to… I mean, we literally have two books, First and Second Kings, and those books are pointing to you have the king, this king was a good king, and it impacted the kingdom of Israel this way. This king was a bad king, and then this is what happened.And so it's wired in the text, right? Amy Sherman in her book, Kingdom Calling, Dr. Amy Sherman points to this when she points to the proverb that says, “when the righteous prosper, the city rejoices.” And it's this idea, when she says righteous, she's not thinking about it in the kind of traditional pietistic aspect of righteousness, but she's talking about “tzedakah” in the Hebrew, which has this connotation of justice. Because when people who are put in positions of power and influence, when they do right by the people underneath them when they do right, that people celebrate. Versus when there's somebody who's a tyrant that's in office, the people groan because there's that sense of they recognize we've mapped power dynamics, and somebody who's going to do ill is going to have a disproportionate impact on all of us.And so power mapping is bringing to surface the awareness of what is it that we have in the room. And it's also a very humbling way of being aware of our own power, right? Like how do I show up as a man in a space, in certain things? Like I know if I get up and I'm about to preach that there's some different dynamics depending on who I'm talking to in a room. Like if I'm in a predominantly Black context that's younger, then the locks might actually kind of give me some street cred. Like, oh, that's kind of cool. But if I'm in a older, traditional space, looking younger is going to be more of a uphill climb to say, okay, what's this guy coming at? And if I'm in a White space, versus but I also recognize that when our sisters come up, that there's a whole different type of power mapping situation.And so all of these things are helpful in being aware of how we show up and how that matters. And Andy's kind of thesis is that unlike the kind of post Nietzschean postmodern suspicion and critical view of power that only sees it as a negative, that God has actually given us and ordained us to exert influence and power in redemptive ways. But we can only do that if we map it, if we're aware of it, and if we use it in a way that's not just for our own self or comfort or glory, but for those who we're called to serve.Sy Hoekstra: Can I ask, just for some like to get specific on one thing, because I'm not sure this would be intuitive to everyone. You said if we map power, then we might not end up in the same situations that we are with, like abuse scandals in the church?Rasool Berry: Yeah. Yep.Sy Hoekstra: And I think I… where my mind goes is I think we would react differently to the abuse scandal. I don't know if the abuse scandals themselves would… those happen unfortunately. But I think where the power mapping might come in, is where so many people are then just deferring to whatever the person in, the pastor's narrative is. Is that kind of what you're talking about, like the reaction?Rasool Berry: I think it's on both sides.Sy Hoekstra: You do? Okay.Rasool Berry: Yeah, because for instance, if I am aware, very aware of power dynamics with children and adults, I would see the value in a practice of not leaving an adult in a space with a child by themselves.Sy Hoekstra: Oh, I see. You might put systems in place ahead of time. Yeah, yeah.Rasool Berry: Right. So there's the sense in which we can put policies in place that recognize… it's the same thing why we put the labeling system on kids when they check into childcare, right? Like you put the little label so that some random person can't just come and pick them up because a kid can't defend themselves. Or they may not have the capacity to understand what's going on if somebody just random comes up and says, “Hey, your mom and your dad told me to come get you,” and then they believe that. And so we have systems that we put in place to recognize those power dynamics. And I think unfortunately, that in a lot of our church context and culture there's an overly naive sense of, and really sometimes idolatrous view of pastors and leaders that essentially say, well, they're good and they're godly people, so there isn't a need for accountability, or there isn't a need for, you know…And so no, it's like, well, in the same way that we have trustees in certain churches, or there's a elders board, depending on what your church polity is, that polity should reflect a sense of accountability and transparency so that there is an awareness on the front end as well as on the backend that when it does come to bring people into account, that there's also an awareness of a power dynamic at play there too.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense especially when [laughs] we throw those things out, all we have are the systems of hierarchy and social dominance that exist to define what power is, right?Rasool Berry: Right.Jonathan Walton: So the train just keeps going.The Social and Spiritual Forces behind the Fight against CRT/DEIJonathan Walton: So leaning into that a little bit, you wrote an essay focusing on CRT power mapping and things like that. But it feels like nobody in the Trump camp really had an idea of what CRT was, and it didn't even really matter to them what it was.Rasool Berry: Right.Jonathan Walton: So what do you think is at the core of what's going on with White people when they reject CRT or DEI or whatever the—conscious—whatever the term would be?Rasool Berry: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: What do you think the underlying concern is?Rasool Berry: Well, you know, after… and it's so funny because when I wrote that first piece, I wrote it as a way… [laughs] I wrote it just to get it off my chest. And in my mind, almost nobody was going to read it because it was like a 20-something minute read, and I just didn't care because I was just like, “I'm getting this off my chest,” and this is the last I'm going to say about it. Like I thought that was going to be just this thing, just so I can point people to, if anybody asks. I did not intend, nor did I think that it was only going to kind of position me as this person that people were listening to and reading and resonating with about it. So that was funny. But then what ended up happening, and especially after I was on the unbelievable? podcast with Justin Brierley, kind of in this debate format with Neil Shenvi, who's kind of been one of the most outspoken evangelical Christian critics of critical race theory. Critics is probably too mild of a term, kind of a…Jonathan Walton: Antagonist.Rasool Berry: Antagonist, even stronger. Like this doomsday prophet who says that, who's warning against the complete erosion of biblical norms because of the Trojan Horse, in his mind, of critical race theory. In the midst of that conversation, that kind of elevated, it was one of their top 10 episodes of the entire year, and it just kind of got me into these spaces where I was engaging more and more. And I kind of sat back and reflected, and I had a few more interactions with Neil on Twitter. And I ended up writing a separate piece called “Uncritical Race Theory.” And the reason why I did that, is I went back and I was curious about what kind of insights I could get from previous instances of the way that there were being controversies surrounding race in America in the church, and how the church talked about those debates.So I went back and I read The Civil War as a Theological Crisis by Mark Noll, who looked at and examined the actual debates during the time of the antebellum period of pro-slavery Christians and anti-slavery Christians, and he analyzed that. Then I went back and I read The Color of Compromise by Jemar Tisby, who looked at the pro-integrationist and segregationist arguments in the church. And what I found was that there was incredible symmetry between what was argued in each of those instances, going all the way back to the 1800s, to the 1960s, to now, and there were two things that emerged. The first was that the primary response from those who were supportive of slavery in the 1800s, or those who were supportive of segregation in the 1960s was to claim first of all, that the opposing view were not biblically faithful, or were not even concerned about biblical fidelity.So this is different than other types of discussions where we could say, even going back to the councils, right? Like when there's some type of, like during the Nicaean Council or something like that, they're debating about how they're understanding the text about certain things. Whereas is Jesus fully God, is he man, is he both? But there's a basic premise that they're both coming at it from different aspects of scriptures. What I noticed in the American context is that there was a denial that the side that was kind of having a more progressive view was even biblically faithful at all.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Christian.Rasool Berry: The second part is related to the first, is that there was this allegation that there was outside philosophies that was actually shaping this impetus because it wasn't clearly the Bible. So in the 1800s that was the claim, “Oh, you're being influenced by these post-enlightenment ideas.” In the 1960s it was straight up Marxism, communism. You see the signs. “Integration is communism.” Like you see the people protesting with that, and of course the new version of that is kind of the remix of cultural Marxism, or these type of things. And so what I acknowledged in each of those scenarios is that part of the problem is that there is such an uncritical understanding of race that it causes, I think especially those in a dominant culture or those who've been susceptible to the ideologies of White supremacy, which can be White or Black or other, There's a tendency to see any claim that race is a problem as the problem itself because there's an underlying denial of the reality of racial stratification in our society, and the what Bryan Stevenson refers to as the narrative of racial difference or what is more commonly known as White supremacy. So when your default position is that you are introducing a foreign concept into the conversation when you talk about the relevance of race in a scenario, then it causes… that sense of uncritical nature of the reality of race causes you to then look upon with suspicion any claim that there's some type of racial based situation happening. And that is what I call, it is really ironically uncritical race theory. It's the exact opposite of what critical race theory is trying to do.And so I think that that's my take on what's happening. And then I think that's more of the scientific sociological, but then there's also a spiritual. I am a pastor [laughter]. And I have to end with this. I have to end with this, because in some ways I was naively optimistic that there was, if you just reasoned and show people the right analogies or perspectives, then they would, they could be persuaded. But what I have since realized and discovered is that there is a idolatrous synchronization of what we now know of different aspects of White Christian nationalism that is a competing theological position and belief system that is forming these doctrinal positions of what we now kind of look at as American exceptionalism, what we look at as this sense of the status quo being… all the things that are moving toward an authoritarian regime and away from democracy, that that is all solidifying itself as an alternative gospel.And I think that at the end of the day, I'm looking at and grieving about mass apostasy that I'm seeing happening in the church as a result of an unholy alliance of political ideology and Christian symbols, language, and values expressed in this kind of mixed way. And that's what is really being allowed to happen with this unmapped power dynamic, is that people don't even realize that they're now exerting their power to kind of be in this defensive posture to hold up a vision of society that is actually not Christian at all, but that is very much bathed in Christian terms.Jonathan Walton: I want to say a lot back, but we got to keep going, but that was good.Sy Hoekstra: We got to… [laughs]. Yeah. I mean, we could talk forever about what you just said, but we could also talk forever about your documentary. So let's transition to that.Rasool Berry: [laughter] You all are like exercising restraint.Sy Hoekstra: Yes.Jonathan Walton: I am.Rasool Berry: Like, “oh, I want to go there.” I just threw steak in front of the lions [laughter].Why Pastor Berry Made a Documentary about JuneteenthSy Hoekstra: But it's because, I mean, the documentary's interesting in a way... It's sort of like, okay, you've seen this movement of mass apostasy and everything, and you've had all these people tell you you're not faithful. And with this documentary in some ways, you're just sprinting on down the road that you're on. You know what I mean? It's like sort of [laughs], you're just going straightforward like we need to remember our past. We need to learn about power dynamics in American history. So you wrote this—[realizing mistake] wrote— you were involved in, you're the kind of narrator, the interviewer of this documentary Juneteenth: Faith and Freedom. And you went to Galveston and you went to Houston, Texas to learn more about the history of Juneteenth and the communities and the people that shaped the celebration and everything.And I guess I just want to know how this got started and why it was so important for you to engage in what was a very significant project…Rasool Berry: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: …to teach people about this kind of history that I think the movement against CRT or DEI or whatever is quite actively trying to suppress.Rasool Berry: And these two stories are very much intertwined…Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: Absolutely.Rasool Berry: …in ways that I didn't even fully anticipate in some ways. In some ways I knew, in some ways I didn't. But I grew up in Philly, where there was not growing up a significant Juneteenth awareness or celebration or anything like that. So I had heard about it though when I was very young, the concept of it. I had a classmate whose middle name was Galveston, and I was like, “That's a weird name. Why is your middle name Galveston?” [laughter] He told me that it's because his mom had told him about this situation where there were Black people that didn't know they were free for two and a half years after the Emancipation Proclamation. I was like eight years old when I first heard that, but filed that away.It wasn't really until more recent years with the, just massive racial justice movement spurred on by the murders of Tamir Rice and George Floyd and others, Sandra Bland. And so, as that movement started to gin up, conversations about race that I was kind of plugged into, I heard about this 90-something year old woman that was appearing before Congress…Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Rasool Berry: …and challenging them to make Juneteenth a national holiday.Sy Hoekstra: I can't believe you got to interview her. She was amazing.Rasool Berry: Yeah. And I was like, why would a 90-something plus year old woman be like this committed to this? So I started looking into it and realizing, I think both spiritually and socially, that there was incredible potency and opportunity in the recognition, the widespread recognition of Juneteenth. I'll go socially first. Socially, the reality has been the United States has never had a moment where we collectively reflect on the legacy of slavery in our country. And if you do the math, from the first enslaved people that we have documented coming into the States in 1619 until if even if you go to the abolition of slavery in 1865 or 1866 with the ratification of the Thirteenth Amendment, that's about 244 years.If you go from 1865 to now, it's like 159 or so years. So we still have way more time in our society that has been shaped by this most intense version of a caste system and brutal slavery that had global, it literally reshaped the globe. And sometimes we forget. I live in Brooklyn where most of the Black folk are Afro-Caribbean. When you think of Jamaica, you think of Usain Bolt or Bob Marley. Do you realize that all of those people are from Africa, like our African descent people. That like the native people of Jamaica would've been Native Americans. So the legacy of slavery and colonialism has literally reshaped population centers in our world. That's how significant it was.And so to not have a moment to reflect on all of it, the implications of how the legacy still shapes us, but also the progress of what we've seen happen and how we are not in that same place is a missed opportunity. But on the contrary, to put that in place is an opportunity for reflection that I think could really help ground us toward being a more perfect union, toward us being a unified people. Because we're basing it on the same story and information, which increasingly in the age of misinformation and disinformation, that the erosion of us having a shared narrative is really upon us. So I think it's interesting and important from that standpoint. Spiritually, it was even more dynamic because one of the… so there was a lot of nicknames and still are for Juneteenth. One was Emancipation Day, Freedom Day, but Jubilee Day.And when I discovered that, that's when I said, “Okay, Our Daily Bread, we got to get involved in this process.” Because you mean to tell me that these formerly enslaved people at a time when it was illegal to read, primarily because they didn't want people to read the Bible, that they understood enough of the story of the Old Testament, that they picked out this festival in Leviticus 25, this ordinance that God had put in place, that on the Jubilee year, the Sabbath of all Sabbaths, I call it the Super Bowl of Sabbaths [Sy laughs]. Seven years times seven, forty nine years plus one, fifty. That on that day that it was this reordering of society, the kingdom of heaven coming back to earth, which simultaneously anticipates the wickedness and the brokenness of human systems in power, but also projects and casts vision about the kingdom of heaven, which would allow for equity and equality to take place. So debts were forgiven, lands were returned, and people who were in bondage primarily because of debt, that was the main reason back then, they would be set free. And in the context of their faith, they saw God doing the jubilee in their lives. So what that gave was the opportunity for us to talk about and reintroduce in many faith traditions the relationship between spiritual and physical freedom, and see that in the Bible story those things were wedded.What's the major account in the Old Testament is the Exodus account. Like it was both physical and spiritual freedom. And in the same way we see that is why Jesus, when he reveals himself and says, “The kingdom of God is at hand,” notice when John the Baptist starts to waver because he's expecting this conquering king. He's still in prison and he says, “Hey, are you the one or we should expect another?” Jesus points to physical and spiritual aspects of liberation in his response. “Tell John what you see. The blind receive sight. The sick are healed. The gospel is preached. Blessed is the one who is not ashamed of me.” So in the sense of that, what we see elements of the kind of seeds of in the gospel is this aspect of the physical and spiritual liberation being tied together.And that is what Jubilee gives us opportunity to explore and investigate. And I think lastly, seeing the role of the Black church in bringing out that insight, I think is particularly valuable in a time where oftentimes those contributions are overlooked and ignored.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, absolutely. I think being able to watch the documentary was transformative for me. Mainly because I'm 38 years old and it's being produced by people who look and sound and act like me. It's interviewing the people who came before us, trying to speak to the folks that are younger than us. And each generation I think has this, this go around where we have to own our little piece of what and how we're going to take the work forward. You know what I mean?Discerning Whether to Leave Communities that Push back on Discussions about RaceYou interviewed Lecrae in the documentary and he's taken that work forward, right? And you both say that you've had the experiences of believing you are loved and accepted in these White evangelical spaces until you started talking about racial justice issues.And so I feel like there's these moments where we want to take the work forward, and then we're like, “All right, well, this is our moment.” Like Opal was like, “Hey, I'm going to do Juneteenth.” Where now you're like, “I'm going to do something.” [laughs] So I wonder, like for you, when you have to make decisions about how to stay, not to stay or just leave. What is the effect of constantly engaging in that calculus for you?Rasool Berry: Oh, man! It's exhausting to do it. And I think it is valuable to count the cost and realize that sometimes you're best suited to reposition yourself and to find other ways to express that faithfulness. At other times, God is causing you to be a change agent where you are. And I think how to navigate through that is complicated, and I think it's complicated for all of us, for our allies who see the value of racial justice as well as for those of us who are marginalized and experience, not just conceptually or ideologically the need for justice, but experientially all of the things through macro and microaggressions that come up, that weigh and weather us and our psyche, our emotions, our bodies.And I think that it's important to be very spiritually attuned and to practice healthy emotional spirituality as well as, best practices, spiritual disciplines, all the things that have come alongside of what does it mean to follow Jesus. I was recently reflecting on the fact that in the height of Jesus' ministry, when it was on and popping, he's growing, the crowds are growing in number, it says that he went away regularly and left the crowds to be with God. And then the verse right after that, it's in Luke, I can't remember which chapters, I know the verse is 16 and 17. And then it talks about how he had power as a result of going away to do more. And there's this relationship between our needing to rest and to find recovery in the secret place in the quiet place with God in order to have the energy to do more of the work.And that's a lot to hold together, but it's really important because otherwise you can end up being like Moses, who was trying to do justice, but in his own strength at first when he kills the Egyptian, and then he tried to go to his people being like, “Yo, I'm down!” And they're like, “You killed somebody. We don't want to hear from you.”Jonathan Walton: [laughs] Right.Rasool Berry: And then he flees. Because he tried to do it in his own strength. And then when God reveals himself at the bush, now he's totally broken and not even confident at all in himself. And God has to say, “No, the difference is going to be I'm with you.” So I think in my own journey, I've been one of many people who've had to evaluate and calculate where I've been in order to kind of see where there are opportunities to move forward. For instance, I was on staff with Cru for 20 years and then as the opportunities to work with Our Daily Bread, and I remember specifically the podcast Where Ya From?, that we launched and then Christianity Today got connected to it.They were eagerly looking, or at least supporting the idea of us having conversations about faith and culture and race and all these things. Whereas in my previous environment, I felt like that was not something… I didn't even feel like it, I experienced the pullback of talking about those things. So it has actually, by repositioning myself to kind of be able to be in spaces where I can tell these stories and advocate in these ways, it has been a better use of my energy and my time. Now, even in that other space, everything isn't perfect. It's still the same type of challenges that exist anywhere you go in the world where you're a minority in race and racial difference is prominent, but at least it's a opportunity to still do more than I could do maybe in a previous position. And all of us have to make those type of calculations.And I think it's best to do those things in the context of community, not just by yourself, and also with a sense of sobriety of encountering and experiencing God himself. Because at the end of the day, sometimes, I'm going to just say this, sometimes the answer is leave immediately. Get out of there. At other times, God is calling you to stay at least in the short term time. And it's important to be discerning and not just reactive to when is the right situation presenting itself. And the only way I know to do that is by doing it in community, doing it with a sense of healthy rhythms and time to actually hear the still small voice of God.Sy Hoekstra: Amen.Jonathan Walton: Amen.Sy Hoekstra: Because you really can err in either direction. Like some people, “I'm getting out of here right away,” without thinking. Meaning, when you're being reactive, when you're not being discerning…Rasool Berry: Right.Sy Hoekstra: …you can get out right away or you can have the instinct, “No, I'm going to stick it out forever,” even if it's bad for you, and it's not going to accomplish anything.Rasool Berry: Yup, yeah.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Which I think leans into jumping all the way back the critical versus uncritical.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah [laughs]. There you go.Jonathan Walton: Like if we're not willing to lean into the radical interrogation of the systems and structures around us that inform our decisions each day, we will submit to them unconsciously, whether that be running when we should resist or whether that be resisting where we actually should flee. So yeah, thanks for all that.Where you can Find Pastor Berry's workSy Hoekstra: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. And so we will have links to both of the articles, to the documentary, which is entirely free on YouTube.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: So you're just wasting your life if you're not watching it, really [laughter]. And a couple other things you talked about, we'll have links. But is there anywhere that you want people to go to either follow you or your work online?Rasool Berry: Yeah. So the other thing that what we did with the Juneteenth documentary, because the response was so strong and overwhelming, really, people wanted to host screenings locally. And so we did a few things to make that more possible. So you can actually go on our website experiencevoices.org/Juneteenth. And you can fill out like a form to actually host a screening locally. And we have designed social media so you can market it, posters that you could print out, even discussion questions that you can use to host discussions. And sometimes people invite some of us from the production on site. So I've gone and done, I've been at screenings all the way from California to Texas to Wisconsin and here in New York.So you can reach out to us on that website as well if you're interested in hosting a screening with the director or one of the producers or myself, and we can kind of facilitate that. Also be looking at your local PBS stations. We partnered with PBS to air screenings so far over a hundred local channels.Sy Hoekstra: Oh, wow.Rasool Berry: And have aired it. Now, the PBS version is slightly different because we had to edit it down to fit their hour long format. And so the biggest version is the PBS version doesn't have Lecrae in it [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Oh no [laughs].Rasool Berry: We had to cut out the four-time Grammy winner. Sorry Lecrae [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Rasool Berry: You know what I mean? But it just so happened that way it, that it was the best way to edit it down.Jonathan Walton: You had to keep Opal.Rasool Berry: Had to keep Opal, had to keep Opal [laughter].Sy Hoekstra: I feel like Lecrae would understand that, honestly.Rasool Berry: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was so gracious. And actually, the other thing that Lecrae did, I had told him that we were working with Sho Baraka, a mutual friend of ours, to do the music. And he said, “Yeah, I heard something about that.” He's like, “I have a song I was going to put on Church Clothes 4, but I feel like it would be a better fit for this. If you're interested, let me know and I can send it to you.” I'm like, “If I'm interested? Yes, I'm interested.” [laughter] Yes. I'll accept this sight unseen. And so he sent us this incredible song that features, well actually is listed as Propaganda's song, but it features Lecrae and Sho Baraka. And you can get the entire Juneteenth: Faith and Freedom soundtrack 13 tracks, poetry, hip hop, gospel, rnb, all on one thing. And wherever you listen to your music, Spotify, Apple Music, anywhere, you can, listen to it, stream it, buy it, and support this movement and this narrative. So yeah. And then personally, just @rasoolb on Instagram, @rasoolberry on, I still call it Twitter [Sy laughs]. So, and we're on Facebook as well. That's where folks can follow me, at rasoolberry.com, website. So thanks for having me.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, pastor, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.Jonathan Walton: Thanks so much, man.[the intro piano music from “Citizens” by Jon Guerra plays briefly and then fades out.]Reflecting on the InterviewSy Hoekstra: Hey, Jonathan, you know what's really useful, is when in the middle of an interview with one of our guests, we say, “Oh no, we don't have time. We'd really like to get into this, so we have to move on to another subject.” It's really useful when we have these little times that we're doing now after the interview to talk more about the subjects than we did with the guests [laughter]. This works out well for us.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Why don't you tell everybody what you're thinking after the interview with Pastor Berry?Passing on a Tradition Well Takes Significant WorkJonathan Walton: Yeah. I think the biggest thing for me that I took away among a lot of the nuggets that he… nuggets and like big things that got dropped on me while we were listening, was like the amount of work that he went through to make this film. Like traveling to Galveston. There's a lot in the documentary that reminds me of how much it costs us personally to create things that are moving. To be able to have these conversations, sit down with these people, smell the smells of these folks' homes. That's just a big thing, particularly for me, like not having… I grew up with the Juneteenth story and needing to think through my own traditions and what I'm going to pass to my kids and stuff like that.It's just I'm challenged to do that work so that I have something substantial to pass on to Maya and Everest. And to the folks who listen to the preaching that I give or the stories I write, or the books I'm going to write, just so I can communicate with the same amount of intimacy that he did. So, Sy how about you? What stood out for you?The Literally Unbelievable Racial Ignorance of WhitenessSy Hoekstra: I think what stood out for me was actually right at that point where we said we really wanted to talk more about something, I really did have more thoughts [laughs]. When he was talking about the thing that underlies the fight against CRT and DEI and all that sort of thing. Being just a straight up denial of any sort of racial caste system or racial stratification in our country, I think that point is extremely important. That so much of our disagreements about racial injustice, at least on the intellectual level, not on the emotional and all that kind of thing, the intellectual level that come down to a difference in beliefs about the facts of reality in America. It is literally just do you think racism is happening or not? Because if you do think that it's happening, then everything has to change [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: And there's not a lot of room… you'll have to do a lot more like kind of active denial. A lot more having a very active lack of integrity [laughs] to continue in the way that you're thinking when you believe that there is no racism in America if you find out that there is. Which kind of explains why there's so much resistance to it. But I think one story that sort of illustrates how this dynamic works a little bit that just, this is something that happened to me that this reminded me of. I was an intern right after college at International Justice Mission, and I read Gary Haugen's book, The Good News About Injustice, where the intro to this book is about his childhood growing up in kind of suburban, I think he's outside of Seattle, somewhere in Washington. A suburban Christian home, things were pretty nice and easy and he just did not know anything about injustice or anything in the world. Like oppression, racism, he did not know anything about it. And then the book takes you through how he discovered it and then his theology of what God wants to do about it and what the organization does and all that kind of thing. But just that intro, I remember talking to one of the other interns who was at IJM m when I was there, who was a Black woman who was ordained in the Black Baptist Church and had grown up relatively low income. And I was talking to her about this book because I read that intro and I was like, “yes, I totally resonate with this. This is how I grew up, check, check. That makes sense. I understand all of it.”And it makes sense to a lot of the people who support IJM, which are a lot of suburban White evangelicals. She told me, she read the intro to the book and her immediate reaction was how, there is no way that anyone could possibly be this ignorant. It is not possible [laughs]. And I was like, [pretending to be hurt] “but I was” [laughter]. And there's this wrench in the gear of our conversations about justice where there's a large spectrum of White people who are, some engaging in actual innocent good faith about how much nonsense there is, like how much racism there is in America, and people who are engaging in complete bad faith and have ignored all the things that have been put right in front of them clearly.And it is just very difficult for a lot of people who are not White to understand [laughs] that there are actually… the level of ignorance of a lot of White people is unbelievable, by which I mean it literally cannot be believed by a lot of people. And I don't know, that's just, it is a complication in our conversations about race that doesn't really change what you have to tell people or how seriously you should take your conversations or whatever. It's just a note about what you might need to do to bring people kind of into the fold, by which I mean the fold of the truth [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes. This is true of like a lot of White people. And the sad part is that it can also be true of a lot of people of color…Sy Hoekstra: Well, yeah.Jonathan Walton: …who say, “I'm just going to deny, because I haven't experienced.” Or, “We have opted into the system of ignorance and don't want to engage.” And so I'll tell a story. Priscilla was at the airport this week.Sy Hoekstra: Your wife.Jonathan Walton: My wife Priscilla, was at the airport, not a random woman [laughter], was at the airport this week. And someone said, “Yeah, everyone who came to this country, like we're all immigrants.” And Priscilla said, “Actually some people came here as slaves.” Then the person says, “No, that's not true.” And it's like, what do you say to that? When someone just says slavery doesn't exist? And that's literally why we celebrate Juneteenth. So I don't know what this person's going to do on Juneteenth, but when there's a collective narrative and acknowledgement that this happened, and then there's a large group, James Baldwin would say, ignorance plus power is very dangerous.If there's a large group that's ignorant and or like intentionally not engaging, but also has power and privilege and all the things, the benefits of racial stratification without the acknowledgement of the reality of it, which is just a dangerous combination.Sy Hoekstra: So when somebody says something like that, like that didn't happen, people didn't come over here as slaves, I think it is possible that they legitimately don't know that I suppose [laughs], or that they think it's a conspiracy theory or whatever. My guess is, tell me what you think about this. What I would imagine happened there was, “Oh, I never thought about the fact that Black people are not immigrants. And so I'm just going to say no.” Do you know what I mean?Jonathan Walton: Oh yeah. Well, I agree. I think some people even, so let's say like, I write about this in 12 Lies. Ben Carson says that we all came here as immigrants, even if it was in the bottom of a ship. He says that. And I think that is a, to be kind, a gross misrepresentation of the middle passage [laughs], but I see what he's trying to do. He's trying to put Black folks in a narrative that fits in the American narrative so people can, so he's not othered. Because what happens when you acknowledge enslavement is that you have to acknowledge all that. They all come with each other. It's like being at a buffet and there is literally no other menu. Like once you say, once you go in, you can't order one plate. If you talk about slavery, you're opening up all the things and some people just don't want to do that. And that sucks.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Which Tab Is Still Open: Daniel PerryJonathan Walton: It's true. And [laughs], I think this feeds into a little bit of this segment [laughs] that we have aptly called Which Tab is Still Open. Because out of all the things in our newsletter and our podcast, there's stuff that comes up for us and it's just still hanging on our desktops, we still talk about it offline. So for Sy, like for you, which one, which tab is still open?Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. We're going to talk about Daniel Perry and Donald Trump today.Jonathan Walton: Fun times.Sy Hoekstra: So I recently had an article in the newsletter that I highlighted as one of my resources, that is about the case of Daniel Perry, which I think kind of flew a little bit under the radar in the fervor of 2020. But he was a known racist, meaning we have now seen truckloads of social media posts and text messages and everything revealing his out and out racism, his fantasies about killing Black Lives Matter protesters, all these kinds of things. Who in the summer of 2020, during those protests, drove his car through a red light into a crowd of protesters. And he did not at that moment hurt anyone, but another, an Air Force vet, Daniel Perry's also a vet, but another Air Force vet named Garrett Foster, walked up to him carrying, openly carrying his, in Texas, legal assault rifle.He didn't point it at Daniel Perry, but he was carrying it. And he knocked on the window and motioned for Perry to roll his window down, and Perry shot him through the window five times and killed him. He was convicted of murder in 2023 by a jury. And the day after he was convicted, governor Greg Abbott republican governor of Texas said that he wanted his case to be reviewed for a full pardon, so that the pardons board could send him a recommendation to do it, which is the legal way that a governor can make a pardon in Texas. And that happened a couple weeks ago. Daniel Perry walked free with all of his civil rights restored, including his right to own firearms.Texas Monthly did some really good reporting on how completely bizarre this pardon is under Texas law, meaning they very clear, they kind of laid out how these pardons typically go. And the law very clearly says that a pardon is not to be considered for anyone who is still in prison, like hasn't finished their sentence, except under very exceptional circumstances, which are usually that like some new evidence of innocence has come to light.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And the actual materials that the board reviewed were basically just his defense case where like him arguing that he was doing what he did out of self-defense. He was standing his ground, and that he was afraid of Foster and therefore allowed to use deadly force. In any other case, the remedy for that, if you think that's your defense and you were wrongly denied your defense by the jury is to appeal. Is to go through the appeals to which you have a right as a criminal defendant. And in this case, he became a bit of a conservative cult hero and the governor stepped in to get him out of jail. It was so bizarre. So the weird thing here is, for me at least, for these cases, for the cases surrounding like where someone has been killed either by the police or by an individual, it has always been pretty clear to me which way the case is going.Like if you're someone who's actually taken a, like me, gone to law school, taken a criminal law class, you've studied murder and then like the right to stand your ground and the right to self-defense, and when you can use deadly force, most of these cases are pretty predictable. I knew that the killers of Ahmaud Arbery and Walter Scott and Jordan Davis were going down. I knew that people were going to get off when they got off. Like those were not confusing. And that isn't because the law isn't racist or whatever, it's just the law doesn't take race into account at all. It just completely ignores, it has nothing to do with the cases, according to the law. So it's like this one was stunning.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Because if it had gone to the appellate judges, the judges who actually are thinking about like the whole system and the precedents that they're setting would say, “Hey, in an open carry state like Texas, we do not want to set a precedent where if someone who is legally, openly carrying a gun walks up to you, you can kill them.” That is not a precedent that they want to set. But this is not an appellate case, so we're not setting that precedent, we're just letting this racist murderer go. That's it.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: And that is like what effectively Greg Abbott and the Board of Pardons in Texas have conspired to do. And I didn't know this was coming actually. I hadn't heard the news that he was calling for the pardon when it happened, but it's wild. And I just kind of wanted to give that additional context and hear what you're thinking about it, Jonathan, and then we'll get into Donald Trump a little bit.Normalizing Punishing Protestors and Lionizing MurderersJonathan Walton: Yeah, I mean, I think first thing for me is like this is a PG podcast. I won't use all the expletives that I would like to use. The reality of like Kyle Rittenhouse lives in Texas now. George Zimmerman, after he killed Trayvon Martin, he was in other altercations with people with guns. So this is not a person or a scenario that is new, which is sad and disappointing. But the reality of an institution stepping into enforce its institutionalized racism, is something that feels new to me in the environment that we're in. And what I mean by that is like, I think we now live in a society that desires for protestors and folks who are resistant to the system that oppresses and marginalizes people, if you believe that is happening.There are individuals and institutions that desire to punish that group of people. It is now normed that that group of people can be punished by anybody.Sy Hoekstra: If you're in the right state.Jonathan Walton: Well, I won't even say the right state, but I almost think if you can get caught in the zeitgeist of a certain media attention, then you will be lauded as someone who did the right thing.Sy Hoekstra: Oh yeah. Even if you might still end up in jail.Jonathan Walton: Even if you might still end up in jail, like you'll become a hero. And so the circumstances have been created where protesters can be punished by regular members of society, and then their quote- unquote punishment could be pardoned in the court of public opinion, and so much so you could end up being pardoned by the institution. There are going to be more protests on campus. There are going to be more protests in light of Trump's conviction and potential election. The chances of political violence and protests are very high, highly probable there're going to be thunderstorms. And what we're saying is like, let's give everybody lightning bolts [Sy laughs]. And we all know if this is a racially stratified society, which it is, if it's a class stratified society, which it is, then we will end up with things like Donald Trump getting convicted and becoming president.Sy Hoekstra: And the racial stratification is important to remember because people have pointed out, if there had been a Trump rally and someone had been killed, that like, not a chance that Greg Abbott does any of this, right?Jonathan Walton: The hallmark of White American folk religion is hypocrisy. If this were a person of color, there's no way that they would've got pardoned for shooting someone at a protest.The Criminal Legal System was Exceptionally Kind to Donald TrumpSy Hoekstra: And this is the connection to the Donald Trump case [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: Because despite the fact that he was convicted, he has been treated throughout this process in a way that no poor or BIPOC would, like no poor person or any BIPOC would ever be treated by the New York State courts. I can tell you that from experience [laughter] as an actual attorney in New York state. Donald Trump had 10 separate violations of a gag order, like he was held in contempt by the court and required to pay some money, which is significant, but nobody does that and doesn't spend some time in jail unless they are rich and famous and White. It was shocking to watch the amount of dancing around him and his comfort that the system does. And this is, pastor Berry mentioned Bryan Stevenson, another Bryan Stevenson quote.I've mentioned, we've mentioned Brian Stevenson so many times on this show [laughter]. But it's true. One of the things he says all the time is that the system treats you better if you're rich and White and guilty than if you're poor and BIPOC and innocent.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And, that's the demonstration. So the Trump indictments happened when we're recording this yesterday. Or the convictions, I mean. And in terms of what it'll do to the election, probably not much. In terms of what it'll like [laughs], like Jonathan was just saying, like this is the situation that we're in here. We don't have a lot of political analysis to bring you about this case because I don't think there's much political analysis to do except to continue to point out over and over again that this is not the way that people are treated by the criminal justice system. This is an exception to what is otherwise the rule.Outro and OuttakeOkay. I think we're going to end there. Thank you all so much for joining us today. Our theme song, as always is “Citizens” by John Guerra. Our podcast Art is by Robyn Burgess. Transcripts by Joyce Ambale. And thank you all so much for joining us. Jonathan, thanks for being here. We will see you all again in two weeks.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Jonathan Walton: Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me was like the amount of work that he went through to make this film. I'm challenged to do that work so that I have something substantial to pass on to Maya and Everest, just so I can communicate with the same amount of intimacy that he did.Sy Hoekstra: So now you're going to go make a documentary about Juneteenth, is what you're saying?Jonathan Walton: [deep exhale, and Sy laughs] At least a reel [laughter].Sy Hoekstra: A reel… yeah, those are pretty much the same I'd say. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ktfpress.com/subscribe

This is the first half of our conversation. The full episode and the complete archive of Subversive episodes, including exclusive episodes and my writing, are available on Substack. You can also subscribe to the podcast sans writing on Patreon for a bit less. This is how the show is financed and grows, so I appreciate every contribution! Please subscribe at: https://www.alexkaschuta.com/ https://www.patreon.com/aksubversive Our conversation explores the genealogy and evolution of the alt-right movement, discussing its origins, key figures, and the reasons behind its rise and subsequent implosion. We also talk about the demographic makeup of the alt-right, the influence of events like the Ron Paul movement and the Trayvon Martin case, and the role of race and IQ in shaping the movement's ideology. The conversation also touches on the leadership vacuum within the alt-right and the challenges of navigating the online space, different styles of communication between men and women, the challenges women face in leadership roles, the changing dynamics of sexuality, and the impact of technology on society and much more. Walt Bismarck is a writer with a rapidly growing Substack presence and you can find him on Twitter as well. Chapters for the full chat 00:00 Introduction to the alt-right movement 06:04 Demographics and influences of the alt-right 13:09 The leadership vacuum and challenges of the online space 25:01 The emergence of the dissident right 34:47 Introduction and the Importance of Women in Leadership 38:02 The Changing Dynamics of Sexuality and Early Onset of Puberty 47:31 Navigating the Complexities of the Modern World 01:00:38 The Fragmentation of Political Movements 01:01:27 Engaging with Different Worldviews 01:02:35 Finding Fulfillment and Meaning in a Complex World 01:03:29 Ethical Implications of Emerging Technologies 01:10:05 The Historical and Cultural Dynamics of Eastern Europe The Walt Right We also mentioned a previous guest's Substack on the show, Regan Arntz-Gray. https://www.allcatsarefemale.com/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/aksubversive/message

In recent years, condemnations of racism in America have echoed from the streets to corporate boardrooms. At the same time, politicians and commentators fiercely debate racism's very existence. And so, our conversations about racial inequalities remain muddled. In Metaracism, Brown University Professor of Africana Studies Tricia Rose cuts through the noise with a bracing and invaluable new account of what systemic racism actually is, how it works, and how we can fight back. She reveals how—from housing to education to criminal justice—an array of policies and practices connect and interact to produce an even more devastating “metaracism” far worse than the sum of its parts. While these systemic connections can be difficult to see—and are often portrayed as “color-blind”—again and again they function to disproportionately contain, exploit, and punish Black people. By helping us to comprehend systemic racism's inner workings and destructive impact, Rose shows how to create a more just America for us all. Tricia Rose is Chancellor's Professor of Africana Studies and the director of the Center for the Study of Race and Ethnicity in America at Brown University. She has received fellowships from the Ford and Rockefeller Foundations, and her research has been funded by the Mellon and Robert Wood Johnson Foundations. She co-hosts with Cornel West the podcast The Tight Rope. She is the author of Longing to Tell: Black Women's Stories of Sexuality and Intimacy, The Hip Hop Wars: What We Talk About When we Talk About Hip Hop—and Why it Matters, Black Noise: Rap Music and Black Culture in Contemporary America, and her new book Metaracism: How Systemic Racism Devastates Black Lives—and How We Break Free. Shermer and Rose discuss: the policies, practices, laws, and beliefs that are racist in 2024 America and what can be done about them • racism, structural racism, systemic racism, metaracism • Rose's working-class background growing up in 1960s Harlem • deep-root cause-ism •being “caught up in the system” • Trayvon Martin, Kelley Williams-Bolar, and Michael Brown • Rose's response to Black conservative authors like Shelby Steele and Thomas Sowell • why she believes Coleman Hughes is wrong about color-blindness • Obama, George Floyd and race relations today • reparations.

Welcome to a heartfelt Mother's Day special of "The Jamal Bryant Podcast: Let's Be Clear." In this episode, Dr. Jamal Bryant embarks on a meaningful journey to New York City to sit down with one of America's most influential mothers, Sybrina Fulton.As the mother of Trayvon Martin, Sybrina Fulton's name became synonymous with resilience, advocacy, and the fight for justice. In the wake of unimaginable tragedy, she emerged as a powerful voice for change, sparking nationwide conversations about racial injustice and gun violence.Join us as Dr. Bryant engages in a candid and poignant conversation with Sybrina Fulton, exploring the depths of motherhood, activism, and the enduring legacy of love and hope in the face of adversity.This episode is a tribute to all mothers, celebrating their strength, courage, and unwavering commitment to shaping a better world for their children. Tune in as we honor Sybrina Fulton and her profound impact on "The Jamal Bryant Podcast: Let's Be Clear.The Jamal Bryant Podcast "Let's Be Clear" is a conversation that rips off the bandaid to serious relevant issues in the community and around the country. It assesses the wounds and offers prescriptions of insight, understanding and direction. No punches are pulled, but jabs are thrown to hit right between the eyes of every listener. New Episode Drops every Thursday at 12pm est. at jamalbryant.orgFollow or Subscribe on our socials ~https://www.facebook.com/jamalbryantpodcasthttps://www.instagram.com/jamalbryantpodcast/https://www.tiktok.com/@jamalbryantpodcast https://twitter.com/jamalbryantpod

In this conversation recorded for Washington Post Live on Feb. 15, two-time WNBA champion A'ja Wilson discusses her new book, “Dear Black Girls: How to Be True to You,” as well as how her grandmother made her a dreamer, what brought her to basketball and why Black women and girls need to have “the talk” that's associated with Black men and boys since the death of Trayvon Martin.”

The mainstream narrative and political motivations behind the deaths of George Floyd and Trayvon Martin are being completely blown up, but is anyone paying attention? A brand-new documentary “The Fall of Minneapolis” exposes new details in the death of Floyd that call into question the circumstances of this tragedy. Jason explores the themes of the film and revisits the doc “The Trayvon Hoax” and its revelation of witness fraud that underscores the race hoax that's leading to the fall of America. Joel Gilbert, producer of “The Trayvon Hoax” joins the show to discuss the shocking details the films expose. Plus, “Fearless” soldiers Delano Squires and Shemeka Michelle share their thoughts on the two cases, the documentaries, and the crumbling narratives and movements these stories launched. We want to hear from the Fearless Army!! Join the conversation in the show chat, leave a comment or email Jason at FearlessBlazeShow@gmail.com Visit https://TheBlaze.com. Explore the all-new ad-free experience and see for yourself how we're standing up against suppression and prioritizing independent journalism. ​​Today's Sponsors: Everyday, young, scared women, who don't think they have options, are choosing abortion. Preborn seeks these women out before they make the ultimate choice and introduces them to the life growing inside of them through FREE ultrasounds because of YOU who donate. Help rescue babies' lives and donate by dialing #250 and say the keyword, "BABY." or go to https://Preborn.com/Fearless Are you testing your skills on PrizePicks this football season? It's the most exciting way to play daily fantasy sports! If you have the skills, you can turn $10 into $250 with just a few taps! Go to https://PrizePicks.com/fearless and use code FEARLESS for a first deposit match up to $100! Prize Picks, Daily Fantasy Sports Made Easy! You must start taking care of your liver NOW more than ever! Why? Because the latest data from the American Heart Association indicates that adults with FATTY LIVER were 3.5 times more likely to have heart failure than those without. Try Liver Health Formula by going to Get Liver Health dot com slash Jason and claim your FREE bonus gift.  Get 10% off Blaze swag by using code Fearless10 at https://shop.blazemedia.com/fearless Make yourself an official member of the “Fearless Army!” Support Conservative Voices! Subscribe to BlazeTV at https://get.blazetv.com/FEARLESS and get $10 off your yearly subscription. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices