Podcasts about hey dan

www.youtube.com/channel/UC6rh-ipGRIfHAX_N7EuuJSA www.facebook.com/Tropical-Velvet-291983374288261/ twitter.com/TropicalVelvet www.instagram.com/tropicalvelvetrecords TRAXSOURCE: www.traxsource.com/label/18796/tropical-velvet BEATPORT: pro.beatport.com/label/tropical-velvet/40791 www.youtube.com/channel/UC6rh-ipGRIfHAX_N7EuuJSA www.facebook.com/Tropical-Velvet-291983374288261/ twitter.com/TropicalVelvet www.instagram.com/tropicalvelvetrecords TRAXSOURCE: www.traxsource.com/label/18796/tropical-velvet BEATPORT: pro.beatport.com/label/tropical-velvet/40791 HURRICANE MEESH IS BACK IN THE HOT SEAT FOR EPISODE 204 1. Electronic Youth - Sunday Preachin' (Filtered Mix) 2. Low Blow - Losing Control (Extended Mix) 3. Alessio Collesano - Dance 2 The Music 4. Cloud 9 - Do You Want Me Baby (Joey Slver 2021 Remix) 5. OOTORO - Breaking Away 6. St Jude - Spirit (Original Mix) 7. Din Jay - Move On Up (Original Mix) 8. Rhythm Staircase - Jackers United (Original Mix) 9. Antton - Donny Says (Jazzy deep house mix) 10. Mark Knight, Alex Mills - It's A Wonder (Extended Mix) 11. Hey Dan, Darren After - Higher (Club Mix) 12. Richard Grey, Robin.S, Dead As Disko - Show Me Love Feat, Robin S (2021 Disco Rework)

Here is the conclusion of the special conversation I had on stage at a Traffic Secrets event with a friend and a student, Nic Fitzgerald. Hit me up on IG! @russellbrunson Text Me! 208-231-3797 Join my newsletter at marketingsecrets.com ---Transcript--- Hey everybody, welcome to Marketing Secrets podcast. I’m so excited, I’m here on stage right now at the Two Comma Club X event with Mr. Nic Fitzgerald onstage. A year ago I gave a podcast to him about how to make it rain and this is section number two. Now those of you who don’t know, in the last 12 months since I did that podcast he’s been making it rain and he’s been changing his life, his family’s lives, but more importantly, other people’s lives as well. And it’s been really cool, so that’s what we’re going to cover today during this episode of the podcast. So welcome back you guys. I’m here on stage with Nic Fitzgerald, so excited. So I made a list of seven things that if I was to sit in a room with him in front of a whole bunch of people I’d be like, “Hey Nic, you’re doing awesome, but here’s some things to look at that I think will help you a lot with what you’re doing.” So number one, when Nic first kind of started into this movement that he’s trying to create, I don’t know when it was, if you created this before or after. When did you create the Star Wars video? Nic: This was, we talked in July, it was September/October. So a few months later. Russell: How many of you guys have seen his Star Wars video? Okay, I’m so glad. For those who are listening, about 10% of the room raised their hand, the other 90% who are friends and followers and fans of Nic have never seen the Star Wars video. His Star Wars video is his origin story and it is one of the best videos I have ever, by far the best video I’ve seen him do, it is insanely good. It comes, do you want to talk about what happened in the video? It’s insanely good. Nic: So I told the story of, I’m a huge Star Wars nerd, so if you didn’t know that, now you do. When I was young my grandma who lived in the same neighborhood as me, she took me to go see Return of the Jedi in the movie theater and I was such a Star Wars nerd, even at a young age, that when I was playing at the neighbors house, and you know, it’s the 80s, so mom and dad are like, “Nic, come home for dinner.” That kind of thing, I would ignore them. I would not come home until they called me “Luke”. No lie. I would make them call me Luke, or I would ignore them. I would not hear them. Russell: Had I known this in high school I would have teased him relentlessly. Nic: So my grandma took me and I remember going and it was so fun because we took the bus, it was just a fun thing. And we went and I just remember walking in and handing my ticket to the ticket person. And then popcorn and just the smells of everything. And again, this is the 80s so walking in the movie theater; I almost lost a shoe in the sticky soda, {sound effects} going on. I just remember how my feet stuck to the floor and all that stuff. And then just being so excited to see my heroes on the big screen and Dark Vader, I just remember watching it. This is such a silly thing to get emotional about, but you know I remember the emperor and Darth Vader dying and all that stuff. It was just like, ah. It was a perfect day. Sorry sound dude. But it was just a perfect day with my grandma who has always been dear to me. So the purpose of that video, I’d put it off for a long time. I knew I needed to tell my own story if I’m going to be helping somebody else tell theirs. And I put it off for a long time, because working through things, I was afraid that if it sucked, if the story was terrible, if the visuals were crappy, that was a reflection on me and my skills. I had worked on a bazillion Hallmark Christmas movies, you know how they put out like 17 trillion Christmas movies every year, if one of those sucks, no offense, they’re not riveting television. Russell: They all suck. Nic: That wasn’t a reflection on me, I was just doing the lighting or the camera work. I didn’t write the story, it wasn’t my story. But this was me, so I put it off for a long time because I knew if I didn’t execute how I envisioned it, that it would reflect poorly on me, and it would be like I was a fraud. So the purpose of the video, there were three purposes. One to tell a story and get people to connect with me on a personal level. As I told that story here, how many of you remembered your feet sticking to the floor of a movie theater? How many of you, when I talk about the smell of popcorn and that sound, you felt and heard and smelled that. So it was one thing, I wanted people to connect with me and just see that I was just like you. Then I wanted to show that I could make a pretty picture. So I had that and I used my family members as the actors. And then I went and talked about how…and then I wanted to use it to build credibility. I’ve worked on 13 feature films and two television series and shot news for the NBC affiliate and worked in tons of commercials. So I’ve learned from master story tellers and now I want to help other people find and tell their story. And then I showed clips of stories that I tell throughout the years. So that was, I just remember specifically when I finally went and made it live, I made a list of about 20 people, my Dream 100 I guess you could say. I just wanted to send them and be like, “Hey, I made this video. I would love for you to watch it.” And Russell’s on that list. So I sent that out and made it live and then it was just kind of funny, it didn’t go viral, I got like 5000 views in a day, and it was like “whoa!” kind of thing. But it was just one of those things that I knew I needed to tell my story and if I wanted to have any credibility as a story teller, not as a videographer, but as a story teller, being able to help people connect, and connect hearts and build relationships with their audience, I had to knock it out of the park. So that was my attempt at doing that. Russell: And the video’s amazing, for the 10% of the room who saw it, it is amazing. Now my point here for Nic, but also for everyone here, I wrote down, is tell your story too much. Only 10% of the room has ever seen that video or ever heard it. How many of you guys have heard my potato gun story more than a dozen times? Almost the entire room, for those that are listening. Tell your story to the point where you are so sick and tired of telling the story and hearing it, that you just want to kill yourself, and then tell it again. And then tell it again. And then tell it again, because it is amazing. The video is amazing, the story is amazing. How many of you guys feel more connected to him after hearing that story right now? It’s amazing. Tell t he story too much. All of us are going to be like, “I don’t want to hear the story. I don’t want to tell the story again.” You should be telling that story over and over and over again. That video should be showing it. At least once a week you should be following everyone, retargeting ads of that video. That video should be, everyone should see it. You’ve got 5,000 views which is amazing, you should get 5,000 views a day, consistently telling that story, telling that story. Because you’re right, it’s beautiful, it’s amazing and people see that and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, I need that for my business. I need to be able to tell my story the way he told that story, because the connection is flawless.” And I think my biggest thing for you right now, is tell your story more. Tell that thing. You’re telling good stories, but that story, that’s like your linchpin, that’s the thing that if you can tell that, it’s going to keep people connected to you for forever. Anyone who’s seen that video, you have a different level of connection. It’s amazing, it’s shot beautifully. You see his kids looking at the movies, with lights flashing, it’s beautiful. So telling your story more, that’d be the biggest thing. It’s just like, all the time telling that story over and over and over again. That’s number one. Alright, number two, this one’s not so much for you as much for most of everybody else in here, but number two is that energy matters a lot. I’m not talking about, I’m tired during the day. I’m talking about when you are live, or you are talking in front of people, your energy matters a lot. I was hanging out with Dana Derricks, how many of you guys know Dana, our resident goat farmer? By the way, he’s asked every time I mention his name is please not send him anymore goats. He’s gotten like 2 or 3 goats in the last month from all of our friends and family members here in the community. Please stop sending him goats. He loves them but he doesn’t want any more. Anyway, what’s interesting, I was talking to Dana, and he’s like, “Do you know the biggest thing I’ve learned from you?” and I’m like, “No. what?” and I thought it was going to be like dream 100 and things like that. No, the biggest thing that Dana learned from me, he told me, was that energy matters a lot. He’s like, “When I hang out with you, you’re kind of like blah, but when you get on stage you’re like, baaahh!” and I started telling him, the reason why is when I first started this career, in fact, I have my brother right now pulling all the video clips of me from like 12 or 13 years ago, when I had a shaved head and I was awkward like, “Hi, my name is Russell Brunson.” And we’re trying to make this montage of me over 15 years of doing this and how awkward and weird I was, and how it took 8-10 years until I was normal and started growing my hair out. But I’m trying to show that whole montage, but if you look at it like, I was going through that process and the biggest thing I learned is that if I talked to people like this, when you’re on video you sound like this. The very first, I think I’d have an idea and then I’d just do stupid things. So I saw an infomercial, so I’m like I should do an infomercial. So I hired this company to make an infomercial and next thing I know two weeks later I’m in Florida and there’s this host on this show and he’s like the cheesiest cheese ball ever. I’m so embarrassed. He asked me a question and I’m like, “Well, um, you know, duh, duh…” and he’s like, “Whoa, cut, cut, cut.” He’s like, “Dude, holy crap. You have no energy.” I’m like, “No, I feel really good. I have a lot of energy right now.” He’s like, “No, no you don’t understand. When you’re on tv, you have to talk like this to sound normal. If you just talk normal, you sound like you’re asleep.” I’m like, “I don’t know.” So we did this whole infomercial and he’s like all over the top and I’m just like, trying to go a little bit higher and it was awkward. I went back and watched it later, and he sounded completely normal and I looked like I was dead on the road. It was weird. Brandon Fischer, I don’t know if he’s still in the audience, but we did…Brandon’s back here. So four years ago when Clickfunnels first came out we made these videos that when you first signed up we gave away a free t-shirt. How many of you guys remember seeing those videos? I made those videos and then they lasted for like four years, and then we just reshot them last week because it’s like, “Oh wow, the demo video when we’re showing CLickfunnels does not look like Clickfunnels anymore. It’s completely changed in four years.” So Todd’s like, “You have to make a new video.” I’m like, “I don’t want to make a video.’ So finally we made the new videos, recorded them and got them up there and we posted them online, and before we posted them on, I went and watched the old ones, and I watched the old ones and I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is just four years ago, I am so depressing. How did anybody watch this video?” It was bad, right Brandon. It was like painfully bad. I was like, “oh my gosh.” That was just four years ago. Imagine six years ago, or ten years. It was really, really bad. And when I notice the more energy you have, the more energy everyone else has. It seems weird at first, but always stretch more than you feel comfortable, and it seems normal, and then you’ll feel better with it and better with it. But what’s interesting about humans is we are attracted to energy. I used to hate people talking energy talk, because I thought it was like the nerdy woo-woo crap. But it’s so weird and real actually. I notice this in all aspects of my life. When I come home at night, usually I am beat up and tired and worn out. I get up early in the morning, and then I work super hard, I get home and I get out of the car and I come to the door and before I open the door, I’m always like, Okay if I come in like, ugh, my whole family is going to be depressed with me.” They’ll all lower to my energy level. So I sit there and I get into state and I’m like, okay, whew. I open the door and I’m like, “What’s up guys!! I’m home!” and all the sudden my kids are like, “Oh dad’s home!” and they start running in, it’s this huge thing, it’s crazy, and then the tone is set, everyone’s energy is high and the rest of the night’s amazing. When I come in the office, I walk in and realize I’m the leader of this office and if I come in like, “Hey guys, what’s up? Hey Nic, what’s up?” Then everyone’s going to be like {sound effect}. So I’m like, okay when I come in I have to come in here, otherwise everyone is going to be down on a normal level. I have to bring people up. So we walk in the office now and I’m like, “What’s up everybody, how’s it going?” and I’m excited and they’re like, “Oh.” And everyone’s energy rises and the whole company grows together. So l love when Dave walks through the door, have you guys ever noticed this? When Dave walks through the door, I’m at a 10, Dave’s like at a 32 and it’s just like, he wakes up and comes over to my  house at 4:30 in the morning to lift weights. I sleep in an hour later, and I come in at 5:45 or something, and I walk in and I’m just like, “I want to die.” And I walk in and he’s like, “Hey how’s it going?.” I’m like, “Really good man. You’ve been here for an hour.” And all the sudden I’m like, oh my gosh I feel better. Instantly raised up. It’s kind of like tuning forks. Have you noticed this? If you get two tuning forks at different things and you wack one, and you wack the other one, and you bring them close together, what will happen is the waves will increase and they end up going at the exact same level. So energy matters. The higher your energy, the higher everyone else around you will be, on video, on audio, on face…everything, energy matters a lot. So that’s number two, when you’re making videos, thinking about that. Alright number three, okay this, you were like 90% there and I watched the whole thing and I was so excited and then you missed the last piece and I was like, “Oh it was so good.” So a year after that Facebook message came, you did a Facebook live one year later to the day, and he told that story on Facebook live. And I was like, “Oh my gosh this is amazing.” And he told that story, and he was talking about it, and I was emotional, going through the whole thing again. This is so cool, this is so cool. And he told the story about the podcast, and this podcast was an hour long, and the thing and his life changed and all this stuff… And I know that me and a whole bunch of you guys, a whole bunch of entrepreneurs listened to this story and they’re at bated breath, “This is amazing, this is amazing.” And he gets to the very end, “Alright guys, see you tomorrow.” Boom, clicks off. And I was like, “Aaahhh!” How can you leave me in that state?  I need something, I need something. So the note here is I said, make offers for everything. Think about this, at the end when you ended, and everyone’s thinking, I want to hear that episode, where is that? How would it be? Now imagine you take the opportunity at the very end that says, “How many of you guys would like to hear that episode where Russell actually made me a personal podcast? And how many of you guys would actually like if I gave you my commentary about what  I learned and why it was actually important to me? All you gotta do right now is post down below and write ‘I’m in.’ and I’ll add you to my messenger list and I’ll send you that podcast along with the recording where I actually told you what this meant to me.” Boom, now all those people listening are now on his list. Or they can even go opt in somewhere. But all you did was tell the story and everything and we were all sitting with bated breath and I was just like, at the end make the offer. You guys want the stuff I talked about, you want the thing? You want the thing? And then you send them somewhere and now you captured them and consider them longer term and you can do more things with them. It was like, hook, story, dude where’s my offer? Give me something. But it was awesome. How many of you guys felt that way when you listened to that thing and you’re just like, “I don’t even know where to find that episode. Russell’s got eight thousand episodes everywhere, I don’t even know where to look for it.” You could have been like, here’s the link. Just the link….if you guys can’t figure out how to make an offer, go listen to a whole bunch of stuff, find something amazing and be like, “oh my gosh you guys, I was listening to this Tim Ferris podcast, he did like 800 episodes, every one is like 18 hours long, they’re really hard to listen to, but I found this one from 3 ½-4 years ago where he taught this concept and it was insane. It was amazing; I learned this and this. How many of you want to know what that is? Okay, I have the link, if you message me down below I’ll send you the link to exactly where to find that episode.” Everyone will give it to you.  You’ll be like, “But it’s free on the internet Russell.” It doesn’t matter. You know where it’s at and they don’t. They will give you their contact information in exchange for you giving them a direct link to the link. Back before I had anything to give away for opt ins, guess what I used to do. I used to go to YouTube and I would find cool videos from famous people. One of my favorite ones we did was I went and typed in YouTube, “Robert Kiyosaki” because he was one of my big mentors at the time. And there was all these amazing Robert Kiyosaki videos on YouTube for free. Tons of them. Hour long training from Robert Kiyosaki. Four hour long event from Robert Kiyosaki. All this stuff for free listed in YouTube. So I made a little Clickfunnels membership site, I got all the free videos and put them inside a members area and just like, “Tab one, Robert Kiyosaki talking about investing, Robert Kiyosaki talking about stocks, Robert Kiyosaki talking….”  And I just put all the videos in there and made a squeeze page like, “Hey, who wants a whole bunch of free, my favorite Robert Kiyosaki videos?” and I made a little landing page, people opt in, I give them access to the membership site, and then I went and targeted Robert Kiyosaki’s audience and built a huge list off his people. Dream 100. Imagine with Dream 100 instead of doing just one campaign to all the people, if each person in your dream 100 you made a customized membership site with the free content right now, be like, “Hey, you’ve listened to a lot of Grant Cardone, he’s got four podcasts, 5000 episodes, there’s only four that are actually really, really good. Do you guys want to know what they are? Opt in here, I’ll give you the four best episodes of all. I currated all these for you to give you the four best.” And target Grant’s audience with that, now you got all his buyers coming into your world. Is that alright, is that good. Alright number four ties along with this. Number four, start building a list ASAP. I don’t think I’ve ever seen you do a call to action to get a list anywhere, have I? After today’s session you’re …..just build a list. If you got nothing from this event at all, every time you do a hook and story, put them somewhere to build a list, because that’s the longevity. Because that’s where if Zuckerberg snaps his finger and you lose all your fans and followings and friends, and all the sudden you’re trying to build over somewhere else, it won’t matter because you’ll have those people somewhere external and now you can message them and bring them back into whatever world you need them to be at. But that’s how you build stability in business. It’s also how you sell this time, you want to sell it the next time and the next time, the list is the key. Funnel Hacking Live, the first Funnel Hacking Live it was a lot of work and we sold out 600 people in the room, and we kept growing the list and growing the list, the next year we did 1200. Then we did 1500, last year was 3000, this year we’re going to be at 5000. We’re building up the list and building up pressure and excitement and then when you release it, it gives you the ability to blow things up really, really fast.  Okay, that was number four. Okay number five, I wrote down integration marketing, adding to other’s offers to build a buyer list. So this is a little sneaky tactic we used to back in the day when I didn’t have my own list, but I had a couple of skills and talents which you do happen to have, which is nice. If you have no skills this won’t work, but if you have skills you’re lucky. So Frank Kern used to do this as well. Frank is sneaky. He used to do this all the time and I saw him doing it and I’m like, “Oh my gosh, he’s brilliant.” So Frank did a one hour presentation somewhere and he called it Mind Control, it wasn’t Mass Control, but it was something like about how to control the minds of your prospects through manipulation and something sneaky. And the title alone was amazing. It was a one hour presentation he gave somewhere. And he put it on these DVDs and what he did, he went to like Dan Kennedy and he’s like, “Hey Dan, you have all of your buyer and you send them this newsletter every single month,” at the time they had 13000 active members, these were their best buyers. He’s like, “This DVD I sell for like a thousand bucks. Do you want to give it to all your people for free?” And Dan’s like, “sure.” And all the sudden the next month, Franks got his best CD with his best stuff in the mailbox of the 13000 best customers, every single person that Dan Kennedy’s been collecting for the last 15 years. So think about this. With your skill set, look at the other people in the market, all the dream 100 who are doing things and how do you create something you can plug into their offers, and every single time one of those people sell a product, your face is popping up as well. It’s called integration marketing, my first mentor Mark Joyner wrote a book called Integration Marketing, it’s a really fast read. You can read it in an hour, but it will get your mind set thinking about it. How can I integrate with what other people are always doing? Because I can go and make a sell, and make another sell, but I was like, when we launched Clickfunnels I was like, “How can I figure out other people’s sales processes that are already happening and somehow inject myself into all these other sales processes?” That way every single time Steven Larsen sells something or someone else sells something, or all these people are selling something, it always somehow gets flown back to me. I want every product, every course, everything happening in the internet marketing world to somehow have people saying my name. That’s my goal. How many of you guy have been to other people’s events and I’m not there and they say my name? It makes me so happy. I get the instagrams from some of you guys, “Hey so and so just said your name.” I’m like, that’s so good. How have I done that? I spent a lot of my life integrating into everybody’s offers. Initially when I first got started, every single person who had a product, I was an interview in everyone’s product. I was like, looking at people launching a product, specific product launches coming, I’d contact them. Product launch is coming up, “Hey man, is there any way I could do a cool thing for your people? I could create this and give it to you and you could plug it into your product?” and everyone’s like, ‘Sure, that’d be awesome.” And all the sudden, boom, they get 5000 new buyers came in and every single one of them got my thing. They’re hearing my name, hearing my voice and it’s just constant integration. I think about how I met Joe Vitale, I talked about that earlier with the greatest showman. He was in an interview in a course I bought from Mark Joyner, I listened to it, fell in love with Joe Vitale, bought his stuff, given him tons of money over the years, a whole bunch of good stuff because he was integrated in that. So looking at other ways to integrate, the skill set that you already have into other people’s marketing channels because then you’re leveraging anytime any of these partners make a sell, you’re getting customers coming through that flow as well. Cool? Nic: Yeah. Russell: That was number five. Number six, I call this one rainmaker projects, because we talked about rainmaker during the first podcast interview. So rainmaker projects are, and again when I first started my career I did tons of these, where it’s like, I was really good at one piece. For you, you’re really good at video and story telling. And I look out here and be like, okay who is someone else here that is awesome? So and so is really good at making a product on Facebook ads. “You’re really good at Facebook ads, so I’ll do the video for this course, you do the Facebook, you do the actual ads for us.” And then, you’re awesome at doing the traffic and you bring in four or five people, like this little avenger team, and you create a cobranded product together and you launch it and everyone makes a bunch of money, split all the money, 50/50/50/50, that makes more than 100,but you know what I’m talking about, everyone splits the money, everyone splits the customer list and all the sudden you’ve all pulled your efforts, your energy, your talents together and everyone leaves with some cash, and you also leave with the customer list, and that’s when you start growing really, really rapidly. When I started I didn’t have a customer list, I had a very small one. But I had a couple of skill sets so that’s why I did tons of these things. That’s like, if you guys know any of my old friends like Mike Filsaime, Gary Ambrose, I could list off all the old partners we had back in the day, and that’s what we did all the time, these little rainmaker projects. We didn’t call them that back in the day, but that’s what it was. It was just like, we all knew what our skill sets were, and it’s like, let’s come together, let’s make a project. This isn’t going to be how we change the world, it’s not going to be something we’re going to scale and grow, but it’s like, it’s going to be a project, we put it together, we launch it, make some money, get some customers, get our name out in the market, and then we step away from it and then we all go back to our own businesses. It’s not like, that’s why it’s funny because a lot of times people are scared of these. Like, “Well, how do we set up the business structure? Who’s going to be the owner? Who’s the boss?” No, none of that. This is an in and out project where all the rainmakers come together and you create something amazing for a short period of time, you split the money and you go back home with the money and the customers. But it gave you a bump in status, a big bump in customer lists, a big bump in cash and then all those things kind of rise and if you do enough of those your status keeps growing and growing and growing, and it’s a really fast easy way to continue to grow. How many of you guys want to do a rainmaker project with Nic right now? Alright, very, very cool. Alright, and then I got one last, this is number seven. This kind of ties back to dream 100. The last thing I talked about was, and again this is kind of for everyone in the group, is the levels of the dream 100. I remember when I first started this process, I first got the concept and I didn’t know it was the dream 100 back then, but I was looking at all the different people that would have been on my dream 100 list. It was Mark Joyner, Joe Vitale, all these people that for me were top tier. Tony Robbins, Richard Branson, and I was like, oh, and I started trying to figure out how to get in those spots. And the more I tried, it was so hard to get through the gatekeeper, it was impossible to get through all these gatekeepers, these people. I was like, “Man don’t people care about me. I’m just a young guy trying to figure this stuff out and they won’t even respond to my calls or my emails. I can’t even get through, I thought these people really cared.” Now to be on the flip side of that, I didn’t realize what life is actually like for that, for people like that. For me, I understand that now at a whole other level. We’ve got a million and a half people on our subscriber list. We have 68000 customers, we’ve got coaching programs, got family, got friends. We have to put up barriers to protect yourself or it’s impossible. I felt, I can’t even tell you how bad I feel having Brent this morning, “Can you tell everyone to not do pictures with me.” It’s not that I don’t want to, but do you want me to tell you what actually happens typically? This is why we have to put barriers around ourselves. Here’s my phone, I’ll be in a room, like Funnel Hacking Live and there will be 3000 people in the room, and I’m walking through and someone’s like, “Real quick, real quick, can I get a picture?” I’m like, “I gotta go.” And they’re like, “It’ll take one second.” And I’m like, ahh, “Okay, fine, quick.” And they’re like, “Hold on.” And they get their phone out and they’re like, “Uh, uh, okay, uh, alright got it. Crap it’s flipped around. Okay, actually can you hold this, my arms not long enough can you hold it? Actually, hey you come here real quick, can you hold this so we can get a picture? Okay ready, one two three cheese.” And they grab the camera and they’re off. And for them it took one second. And that person leaves, and guess what’s behind them? A line of like 500 people. And then for the next like 8 hours, the first Funnel Hacking Live, was anyone here at the first Funnel Hacking Live? I spent 3 ½ hours up front doing pictures with everybody and I almost died afterwards. I’m like, I can’t…but I didn’t know how to say no, it was super, super hard. So I realize now, to protect your sanity, people up there have all sorts of gatekeepers and it’s hard. So the way you get through is not being more annoying, and trying to get through people. The way you get to them is by understanding the levels of that. So I tried a whole bunch of times, and I couldn’t get in so I was like, “Crap, screw those guys. They don’t like me anyway, they must be jerks, I’m sure they’re just avoiding me and I’m on a blacklist….” All the thoughts that go through your head. And at that time, I started looking around me. I started looking around and I was like, “hey, there’s some really cool people here.” And that’s when I met, I remember Mike Filsaime, Mike Filsaime at the time had just created a product he launched and he had like a list of, I don’t know, maybe 3 or 4 thousand people. And I remember I created my first product, Zipbrander, and I was all scared and I’m like ,”Hey Mike, I created this thing Zipbrander.” And he messaged back, “Dude that’s the coolest thing in the world.” A couple of things, Mike didn’t have a gatekeeper, it was just him. He got my email, he saw it, and he was like, “This is actually cool.” I’m like, “Cool, do you want to promote it?” and he’s like, “Yes, I would love to promote it.” I’m like, oh my gosh. I had never made a sale online at this point, by the way, other than a couple of little things that fell apart. I never actually made a sale of my own product. Zipbrander was my very first, my own product that I ever created. So Mike was that cool, he sent an email to his list, his 5000 person list, they came over, I had this little pop up that came to the site and bounced around, back in the day. I had 270 people opt in to my list from Mike’s email to it, and I think we made like 8 or 10 sales, which wasn’t a lot, but 67 that’s $670, they gave me half, I made $350 on an email and gained 300 people on my list. I’m like, oh my gosh this is amazing. And I asked Mike, “Who are the other people you hang out with? I don’t know very many people.” And he’s like, “Oh dude, you gotta meet this guy, he’s awesome.” And he brought me to someone else, and I’m like, “Oh this is cool. “ and Mike’s like, “Dude, I promoted Zipbrander, it was awesome, you should promote it.” And then he’s like, “Oh cool.” And he promoted Zipbrander. I’m like, oh my gosh, I got another 30-40 people on my list and there were a couple more sales. And then I asked him, “Who do you know?” and there was someone else, and we stared doing this thing and all the sudden there were 8 or 10 of us who were all at this level and we all started masterminding, networking, figuring things out, cross promote each other and what happened, what’s interesting is that all of our little brands that were small at the time started growing, and they started growing, and they started growing. All the sudden we were at the next tier. And when we got to the next tier all the sudden all these new people started being aware of us and started answering our calls and doing things, and Mike’s like, ‘Oh my gosh, I met this guy who used to be untouchable.” And he brought him in and brought them in and all the sudden we’re at the next level. And we started growing again and growing again. And the next thing we know, four years later I get a phone call from Tony Robbins assistant, they’re like, “Hey I’m sitting in a room and I got Mike Filsaime, Frank Kern, Jeff Walker, all these guys are sitting in a room with Tony Robbins and he thinks that you guys are the biggest internet nerds in the world, he’s obsessed with it and he wants to know if he can meet you in Salt Lake in like an hour.” What? Tony Robbins? I’ve emailed him 8000 times, he’s never responded even once, I thought he hated me. Not that he hated me, it’s that he had so many gatekeepers, he had no idea who I was. But eventually you start getting value and you collectively as a level of the dream 100 becomes more and more powerful. Eventually people notice you because you become the bigger people. And each tier gets bigger and bigger and bigger. So my biggest advice for you and for everybody is understanding that. Yes, it’s good to have these huge dreams and big people, but start looking around. There are so many partnerships to be had just inside this room. How many deals have you done with people in this room so far? Nic: Quite a few. Russell: More than one, right. Nic: Yeah, more than one. Russell: Start looking around you guys. Don’t always look up, up, up and try to get this thing. Look around and realize collectively, man, start doing the crossings because that’s how everyone starts growing together and there will be a time where I’ll be coming to you guys begging, “Can you please look at my stuff you guys, I have this thing called Clickfunnels. You may have heard of it. Can you please help me promote it?” And that’s what’s going to happen, okay. So the level of the dream 100 is the last thing, just don’t discount that. Because so many people are like swinging for the fence and just hoping for this homerun like I was, and it’s funny because I remember eventually people would respond to me, that I was trying for before, and they’d contact me. And I was like, oh my gosh. I realized, I thought this person hated me, I thought I was on a black list. I was assuming they were getting these emails and like, “oh, I hate this. Russell’s a scammer.” In my head right. They never saw any of them. Until they saw me, and they reached out to me and the whole dynamic shifted. So realizing that, kind of looking around and start building your dream 100 list, even within this room, within the communities that you’re in, because there’s power in that. And as you grow collectively, as a group, everyone will grow together, and that’s the magic. So that was number seven. So to recap the seven really quick. Number one, tell your story way too much, to the point where you’re so annoyed and so sick and tired of hearing it that everybody comes to you, and then keep telling it even some more. Number two, in everything you’re doing, energy matters a lot. To the point, even above what you think you’re comfortable with and do that all the time. Number three, make offers for everything. Hook, story, don’t leave them hanging, give them an offer because they’ll go and they will feel more completed afterwards. Number four, start building a list, it ties back to the first thing. Make an offer, get them to build your list, start growing your list because your list is your actual business. Number five, integration marketing. Look for other people’s marketing channels and how you can weave what you do into those channels, so you can get free traffic from all the people who are doing stuff. Number five, create rainmaker projects, find really cool things and bring four or five people together and make something amazing. Share the cash, share the customer list, elevate your status, elevate your brand, and it’s really fun to do because you get to know a whole bunch of people. And Number seven, understanding the levels of the dream 100. Find the people at your level and start growing with them together collectively as you do that, and in a year, two years, three years, five years Tony Robbins will be calling you, asking you to make his video and it will be amazing. Does that sound good? Awesome.

www.youtube.com/channel/UC6rh-ipGRIfHAX_N7EuuJSA www.facebook.com/Tropical-Velvet-291983374288261/ twitter.com/TropicalVelvet www.instagram.com/tropicalvelvetrecords TRAXSOURCE: www.traxsource.com/label/18796/tropical-velvet BEATPORT: pro.beatport.com/label/tropical-velvet/40791 www.youtube.com/channel/UC6rh-ipGRIfHAX_N7EuuJSA www.facebook.com/Tropical-Velvet-291983374288261/ twitter.com/TropicalVelvet www.instagram.com/tropicalvelvetrecords TRAXSOURCE: www.traxsource.com/label/18796/tropical-velvet BEATPORT: pro.beatport.com/label/tropical-velvet/40791 HURRICANE MEESH IS BACK IN THE HOT SEAT FOR EPISODE 190 1. Softmal, Lucenamusic, Morfasi - Saxsual (Original Mix) 2. Junior Jack, Glory, Jocelyn Brown - Hold Me Up (Ferreck Dawn Extended Remix) 3. Dan Corco - That's Luv (Extended Mix) 4. Jamie Vice - Like That 5. Hey Dan, Darren After - Higher (Club Mix) 6. Murphy, Joe McKenna - Clubhouse Casual (Original Mix) 7. Riva Starr The Vision, feat. Dames Brown - Down (VIP Club Remix) 8. Low Steppa, Guy Burns - Lay It On Me (Extended Mix). 9. Charlotte, Sammy Porter, George Mensah - Ain't Nobody Else feat. Charlotte (Secondcity Remix Extended Mix) 10. Demarkus Lewis - Let Myself Go (Christian B's Bumpin Philly Mix) 11. Supernova - Lovely Summer Dreams (Extended Mix)

The introduction of your podcast is probably the most critical part of your show. A typical listener will give you between 90 seconds and a few minutes to entice them to stick around. Don't blow it. You can't catch up to a slow start. Today, we are going to break down six different podcast intros. I will show you which parts of the introduction are effective and which are not. When you create your podcast introduction, you need to put yourself in the shoes of your listener. What is in it for them? That is what they will be asking. How will they be better by the end of the episode? If you are going to use a clip from the episode at the beginning, you need to open a conversation loop. Tease the content to come by creating some intrigue. Make your listener want to stick around. If you can't do this, don't use a clip. The voiceover intro should tell your listener who you help, what you help them do and why. You do not need to structure it in those exact words. However, your intro should answer those questions. As an example, our first sample episode opens with, "Do you love your work? Do you think it's possible? You're about to find out." Do you know what this show is all about? It sounds like a show about finding a career that you love. I don't even need to tell you the name of the podcast. Edit your intro. Keep it short. Let it give your episode momentum. Don't coast and wander your way into the show. Start quickly. Capture the attention of your listener and get them excited about the content. If you would like help with your introduction, grab my Podcast Introduction template at www.PodcastTalentCoach.com/intro. Ok, let's jump into the intros. First up is "48 Days to the Work You Love" with Dan Miller. 48 DAYS TO THE WORK YOU LOVE WITH DAN MILLER Host: Well, a listener says, "Hey Dan … all this talk about setting goals and getting things done sounds great but, I’m a thinker. Not a doer." (VO over music bed) Do you love your work? Do you think it’s possible? Well, you’re about to find out. It’s time for 48 Days to the Work You Love with Dan Miller on the 48 Days online radio show. Whether you need a professional tune up, or a work overhaul, this is the program for you. Now here’s your host, Dan Miller. Host: Well, what do you think? Do you need a tune up or a complete overhaul? You know, we’re still here at the beginning of the year. A great time to be looking at that. Just gonna have some little kind of subtle realignment to what you’re gonna do? Or, are you gonna really make a break and head off in a new direction? We’re hearing from lots of you who are doing both of those things. Delighted to hear the plans you’re making. You know, last week, the lead in was, "I know what to do, but can’t make myself do it." We had a whole lot of you that that apparently kind of struck a nerve, and you commented on that. I’m delighted to have you do so. We’re gonna talk some more about that. What is it that keeps us from doing? There may be some unique kind of built-in traits that we have that make us more a thinker than a doer. Well, we’ll look at that. So, questions … "I know what I need to do, but I’m easily turned back to wonder and invention." Somebody asked, "How can I make some money off the land I just inherited?" "Where do you find customers who aren’t broke?" Love that question. We’re gonna dig in. ANALYSIS First, the title of the episode doesn't get too cute. It let's you know what the podcast is all about. "48 Days To The Work You Love" sounds like a career search podcast. The name isn't too clever or too cool for the room. The tease to open the podcast is effective. It is short and to the point, while creating anticipation of what is to come. The tease gets you guessing what the quote is all about. It makes you want to stick around to close the circle. The voiceover introduction starts with the listener point of view. "Do you love your work? Do you think it's possible? Well, you're about to find out." These three sentences reinforce exactly what this podcast is all about. The intro makes it relevant to you. We don't waste a lot of time with information you don't need. Dan comes in after that with the overview of this particular episode. We know what the podcast is all about. He now tells us how this particular episode is special. What makes this one different than the others. Again, he begins in the shoes of the listener with, "Well, what do you think? Do you need a tune up or a complete overhaul?" He gets the listener invested in the content. Dan does a nice job creating social proof. He uses phrases like, "We’re hearing from lots of you", "Delighted to hear the plans you’re making", "and you commented on that", and "So, questions …" All of these statements show listeners exactly what he wants them to do. Finally, Dan gives an outline of the questions he will address on this episode. This is sort of a table of contents. Overall, this is a solid intro. BUSINESS UNUSUAL The next intro is “Business Unusual” with Barbara Corcoran from Shark Tank. (Host) Hey this is Barbara Corcoran you are now tuned in to "Business Unusual". And, everything you ever learned about business, throw it out the window. I’m gonna tell you the real deal. Listen in. Today, I’m gonna answer all your burning question about work, life, starting a company, getting on track, and much much more. Be sure to call into the "Business Unusual hotline" with your question at 888-BARBARA. That’s 888- BARBARA. But first today we’re gonna be talking about moms getting back in the workforce. What do you do when you put your life on pause, or at least your career on pause, to raise a bunch of kids and you want to get back? Listen in. I’m going to give you great advice. ANALYSIS This is a solid intro. It doesn't start with your typical sample clip from the episode. Barbara gets right into it. A sample clip isn't necessary. If you plan to use a clip to tease the episode, you need to do it properly. A teaser clip should create some anticipation. It should open the loop that needs to be closed by listening to the show. Pulling a random clip doesn't accomplish either of those. Barbara tells us exactly what the podcast is all about. You know she tells it like it is. Her intro is focused on you. She says, "I’m gonna answer all your burning question about work, life, starting a company, getting on track, and much much more." She also gives you the phone number to participate. She effectively tells you what the podcast is about, so you know it is right for you. Barbara then says, "Today we’re gonna be talking about moms getting back in the workforce. What do you do when you put your life on pause, or at least your career on pause, to raise a bunch of kids and you want to get back? Listen in." She sets up the content for today to keep you around for the entire episode. This whole intro is short and sweet. I love the momentum it creates. FLIPPED LIFESTYLE Next is the "Flipped Lifestyle" podcast with Shane and Jocelyn Sams. (Host) Hey y’all! On today’s podcast we welcome back Brooke Butcher. Last time Brooke was on the show, she was just starting out and growing her online nursing community. On this episode we get to celebrate Brooke's growing membership and her incredible milestone. Brooke just quit her job and works full-time online. On today’s podcast Shane is helping Brooke get used to her new, self-employed, location independent lifestyle as well as growing her nursing membership. You’ll learn how to balance your time between business and life while working at home, promotions to help grow your membership site and how to know when it’s time to go full-time online. You are going to love today’s podcast. Enjoy the show. (Voiceover) Welcome to the "Flipped Lifestyle" podcast, where life always comes before work. We're your hosts, Shane and Jocelyn Sams. We are a real family who figured out how to make our entire living online. Now we help other families do the same. Are you ready to flip your life? Alright. Let’s get started. (Host) What’s going on everybody? Welcome back to the "Flipped Lifestyle" podcast. It is great to be back with you today and I am super excited because not only is this an amazing member of the Flip Your Life community on the show, it is a repeat guest. It is someone we know and love and we are going to be celebrating some major, major wins in her online business and her membership world today. Welcome back to the program Brooke Butcher. ANALYSIS This intro is solid, but could be cleaned up a bit. The opening bit delivered by Jocelyn before the voiceover says much the same thing Shane says after the intro. Jocelyn's part could have been cut in half. This portion is intended to get you to listen to the rest of the episode. We don't need a full guest introduction here. This portion would have been sufficient: "On today’s podcast Shane is helping Brooke get used to her new self-employed, location independent lifestyle as well as growing her nursing membership. You’ll learn how to balance your time between business and life while working at home, promotions to help grow your membership site and how to know when it’s time to go full-time online. You are going to love today’s podcast. Enjoy the show." After this part, Jocelyn says Brooke is self-employed, location independent and the owner of a nursing membership site. We're going to learn about time management and how to promote our site. Shane then comes on and again tells us that Brooke has a membership site. We got that in Jocelyn's portion. He says she is a repeat guest. We know that, too. Finally, he tells us we are going to celebrate some major wins in her membership. Jocelyn told us that as well. I do like the voiceover intro. We know what the show is about. It is focused on us. "Welcome to the 'Flipped Lifestyle' podcast, where life always comes before work. We're your hosts, Shane and Jocelyn Sams. We are a real family who figured out how to make our entire living online. Now we help other families do the same. Are you ready to flip your life? Alright. Let’s get started." With this intro, we know exactly what the show is all about and what we are getting. We know how we will be better off when the episode is over. I also like the way Shane doesn't waste much time before he jumps into the interview. Tell us what we need to know to understand this interview is applicable to my situation. SPEAK UP The next podcast is "Speak Up" with Matthew and Elysha Dicks. (Host) Welcome to "Speak Up", a podcast about telling better stories. This is episode 103. I’m Elysha Dicks. I’m the Executive Director of Speak Up. We are a Hartford-based storytelling organization. We produce shows, teach workshops, and help people find and tell better stories. And I am Matthew Dicks. I am the husband of Elysha Dicks. I am also the Artistic Director of Speak Up. I’m a storyteller myself. I’m an author of several novels. And the non-fiction title "Storyworthy: Engage, Teach and Persuade and Change Your Life Through the Power of Storytelling". A book that will help you become a better story teller. How are you doing today, honey? I am fine. Excellent. How are you? I am great. I am happy to be podcasting again with you. Yes. It’s a glorious summer day. We only have two weeks left of our summer vacation before we have to return to school, but we are trying to suck the marrow out of every minute we have. That sounds gross. No, it’s a phrase. I know it’s a phrase. That doesn’t mean it’s good. Alright. It’s poetry. You’re supposed to suck the marrow out of life. I know I’ve heard it before. This one I’m going to pass on. Alright I’m going to be sucking the marrow over here. Suck it by yourself. Do you have any follow up for us honey? Not that I can think of today, how about you? ANALYSIS "Welcome to 'Speak Up', a podcast about telling better stories." This is probably the shortest intro that tells us exactly what the show is all about. I like this a lot. No questions here. However, they follow it with "episode 103". Is that important? Not really. That doesn't have anything to do with anything. Leave it out. Elysha then gives us their pedigree. I usually suggest podcasters start in the shoes of the listener. However, this is effective in giving the audience a reason to believe what they have to say. This intro gives them credibility. We also know they teach workshops and produce shows. We know they know what they are doing. We also know we can get more of what they have to offer if we choose. The intro is followed by some chit chat. I love the way the play off each other. It gives us a sense of their style and sense of humor. However, it gives us no reason to stick around. You can't catch up to a slow start. If Elysha and Matthew took some of their story teachings, they would realize they need to start strong. Set the stage. Suck me in. Give me a reason to care. "How are you? Fine. Glad to be podcasting. Have two weeks left in summer break." I'm getting fidgety listening to this. I'm inclined to find something more compelling. They need to hook me sooner. Most people give themselves anywhere between 90 seconds and a few minutes to decide if they will stick with an episode or find something else. Make it count. INSPIRED MONEY This one is "Inspired Money" with Andy Wang. (Clip) Today on "Inspired Money" … Take this year, what a crazy year we’ve been in. So if I think that nobody’s hiring, there’s no opportunity for a small businesses, they’re all shutting down, that we’re all going to get sick and then it’s going to kill a whole lot of us, well, there’s some pieces of reality in there. If that’s what is dominant in my mind, I’m dead in the water. I’m not going to start a profitable business. I’m not going to see new opportunities. But if I think wow, this is a challenging time. With every challenge there’s the equal seeds of opportunity. If I believe that, then I look at this, ok, i didn’t expect this to happen. Yes, it closed this door. What am I going to find if I just re-direct a little bit in terms of a new opportunity? This is episode 163 with career coach and author of "48 Days To The Work You Love", Dan Miller. (Voiceover) Welcome to "Inspired Money". My name is Andy Wang. A managing partner at Runnymede Capital Management. Each week we bring you an interesting person to help you get inspired, shift your perspectives on money and achieve incredible things. From making it to giving it away, inspired money means making a difference, creating something bigger than oneself, and maybe, just maybe, making the world a better place. Thank you for joining me. (Host) Hey inspired money maker, welcome back. If this is your first time listening welcome. Are you happy in your career? Do you feel like you found your calling? So many people aren’t quite sure and experience midlife crisis. I want to open with a quote from our guest. "Success is never an accident. It typically starts with imagination, becomes a dream, stimulates a goal, grows into a plan of action, which then inevitably meets with opportunity. Don’t get stuck along the way." That’s Dan Miller. He’s author of the New York Times best-selling books "48 Days To The Work You Love", "No More Dreaded Mondays", and "Wisdom Meets Passion". He also hosts the top ranked career podcast "48 Days to the Work You Love Internet Radio Show". ANALYSIS The clip at the beginning of this episode sets up the interview. We get inspired with just a few sentences. We also end with a question, which opens the loop. The guest ends with, "What am I going to find if I just re-direct a little bit in terms of a new opportunity?" That's what the episode is all about. The voiceover part of the intro tells us what the podcast is all about. "Each week we bring you an interesting person to help you get inspired, shift your perspectives on money and achieve incredible things. From making it to giving it away, inspired money means making a difference, creating something bigger than oneself, and maybe, just maybe, making the world a better place." We know what we're going to get. When you create your intro, tell your listener how they will be better after listening to an episode. What's in it for me? This intro does exactly that. Andy then introduces Dan. He gives us just enough to find his guest credible. He has written a few New York Times bestselling books and he hosts an online radio show. I'm good with that. I'll listen. The introduction of your guest only needs to provide your listener with enough information to make them care and want to stick around for more. It doesn't matter that Dan is a career coach or that he has started multiple businesses. Just give us enough to want more. SCREW THE NINE TO FIVE The next show is "Screw The Nine To Five" with Jill and Josh Stanton. (Clip) Your mission is to pay back how much you spent on ads. I’m getting all these customers coming in. Now, I’m building a customer list. And then you have a flagship program or one-on-one coaching and it’s so much easier to upgrade an already existing customer than it is the first acquiring of them. Yeah. Right? Once you get them in the door and you rock their world they’re going to be like, "This guy is awesome. I wonder what else they have." (Voiceover) Warning. This podcast may cause you to quit your job, and start a business. What’s up? We're Jill and Josh Stanton. And we help people quit their jobs. Right now you’re joined by tens of thousands of up-and-coming entrepreneurs all around the world who are using their commute to redefine their lives and build a business online. So if you’re ready to create the financial freedom, time freedom, location freedom and personal freedom you crave so you can do what you want when you want, then turn up the volume and let’s do this thing. This is the "Screw the 9 to 5" podcast. (Host) Hey! Welcome back to another episode of the "Screw The Nine to Five" podcast. Today we are jammin' on if we were to start all over again ... no audience, no revenue, none of the things ... how would we build this business from scratch? ANALYSIS The clip at the beginning of this show does very little for me. At the end of the full opening, we know the episode is about "if we had to do it all over again, what would we do?" The intro clip is all about, "Your mission is to pay back how much you spent on ads" or "getting a customer is harder than keeping a customer." What does that have to do with anything? It doesn't open a loop or create any intrigue. Be sure to tease effectively. Now, I do love their voiceover intro. "Warning" is a great way to start. "You are joined by tens of thousands" shows social proof. They talk all about the life I want to create. This is all perfect. They are in my shoes and telling me the benefit. When Jill comes back in with "Today we're jammin' on starting over again", you get a sense of how she rolls. She jumps right into the content. The momentum is great. The intro overall is nice and short. It would be much stronger if they had just used a more effective clip at the beginning. TEMPLATE If you need help creating your intro, get my intro template at www.PodcastTalentCoach.com/intro. This will help you shape the opening of your podcast. Do you need help with your podcast? E-mail me any time at Coach@PodcastTalentCoach.com. Let's see what we can do. Let's turn your information into engaging entertainment.

FUN-ctionally Fit with Dai Manuel Dai Manuel is a super dad, dating his wife, with a lead by example way of living and a contagious personality, who is on a mission to positively impact one million role models around the globe to lead a FUN-ctionally fit life through education, encouragement, and community.  He is an award-winning digital thought leader and author, Distinguished Toastmaster & keynote speaker, former partner and Chief Operating Officer of a multi-million dollar retail company, and a sought after lifestyle mentor and executive performance coach. Dai knows the struggle of the juggle and keeping his health and happiness a priority. He models his work based on 5 F’s: Fitness, Family, Faith, and Finances with an overarching roof of FUN, built on a rock-solid foundation of Health. Nuggets of wisdom and inspiration to take action to be your best self are guaranteed when you connect with Dai! www.daimanuel.com www.feedingfatty.com Full Transcript Below Roy - Feeding Fatty (00:02): Hello, and welcome to another episode of feeding fatty I'm Roy I'm Terry. So we are the podcasts that, uh, you know, we like to Chronicle my journey and Terry is my support mechanisms. So we'd like to bring you talk about our different challenges, successes, and things that we've learned along the way through getting healthy weight loss. And, uh, we also bring, uh, have guests that have awesome stories to tell professionals in the field that can give us some actionable items. So today, without further ado, let's introduce our guests. Terry - Feeding Fatty (00:36): Okay. We are very happy to have Dai Manuel. He is a super dad dating his wife and currently doing life with his family around the globe. He is also an award winning digital thought leader and author executive performance coach and certified lifestyle mentor who empowers people to lead a functional functionally fit life through education, encouragement, and community day. Welcome to the show. Dai (01:08): Well, thank you very much, Terry and Roy was a nice little introduction. I was like, wow. I think I might've almost [inaudible]. Yeah. Thanks so much for taking time out of your day to be with us. We appreciate that. Yeah. Oh man. Well, you know what, uh, I just keep thinking about the title of your podcast, right? Eating fatty and I, it's such a great name and, uh, it brings back lots of memories for me. I'll tell you that, because I think we can all relate to that. We've all had periods in life where we fall out of health. When we're in that space, it certainly feels like we're just feeling bad and I've lived in that space. So I know it very well. Roy - Feeding Fatty (01:54): You know, we kicked it around Terry when we started this, Terry's like, we really need to Chronicle this because there not only is it for our mock accountability, but there are other people out there with the struggle as well. And we were kicking around names and I just jokingly threw that out there. And she's like, that's it that's right. Terry - Feeding Fatty (02:11): Like healthy lifestyle fitness at for you. What works Roy - Feeding Fatty (02:16): Part of that? I think the is that, um, no matter how healthy I may get, hopefully to get in the future is that, you know, I always have to be careful because I think once you, you know, it's like being a diabetic, once you've been fat, you could get that way again, very easy if you don't watch yourself. And so that's, the other thing is too, is that, you know, we can do a lot of stuff to get healthy, but it's trying to do it in a manner that we can do it for a long time Terry - Feeding Fatty (02:44): Lifestyle. Yeah. Yeah. Dai (02:48): Well, you know, it's all about sustainability, right? Lifestyle. I mean, it's the lifestyle we're always looking for that thing where we just don't even have to think about it anymore. We just live into it. Yeah. I think that's the thing that we're all aiming. Right. Terry - Feeding Fatty (03:00): Right. So can you tell us a little bit about your history, where you, how you got to where you are now and what's going on? Dai (03:09): Sure. Well, I mean, thank you for asking that. I think we all have a, I'm a big Marvel fan or a comic book fan, and I always like the origin stories. Right, right. You know, just keeping to the theme of your podcast. Uh, I w even though I'm someone that's been, I've actually worked, I've had a career in the wellness and health industries now for 26 years, 26 years, my entire adult life, I've worked in the fitness and the wellness spaces in various capacities obviously. And, uh, I love it. It's a, it's a big part of, of what I just love to do. I love to empower people with change and I didn't come to that naturally though. You know, like I think a lot of people, especially in the fitness space, uh, a lot of people tend to be athletes where people that have a very natural lifestyle, that's embraced athleticism, you know, like they'd just been active their entire life. Dai (03:59): And I love that. I think it's inspiring, but I am not that person. I came from the opposite end. And this is where I find another contingency within the wellness industry where it's people that have are not working in it because they themselves have already had this massive shift or transformation and awakening where really they just prioritize their health and made some changes. And I'm from that camp, uh, I was morbidly obese as a teenager. So from the age of nine to 14, well, listen, it wasn't rocket science. Uh, you know, that got me there. In fact, it was just really simple. Uh, I ate a lot of foods that were very poor and nutrition value yet rich in calories. And I did that frequently. Uh, and also I, I had a lifestyle that was, well, let's just put it this way. The majority of my time free time was spent watching movies or playing video games, you know, and compound that day in day out for a period of about five years. Dai (05:00): Well, yeah, I didn't grow up. I grew out and I, I can laugh about it now, but to be honest and fully transparent with you, you know, at that age, I was battling depression, a lot of anxiety, a lot of just self doubt and, uh, you know, a lot of the, and I hate to use the word cliche because today, you know, when we hear obesity or even the term morbid obesity, it is like regular in our vernacular now. Right. Can't help it look on the feeds. And we see these words coming up, you look at the world health organization talking about this global pandemic outside of COVID, but I mean, it's an issue before COVID was this issue of just the rise in people's weight and, and the increase of health complications as it was then, you know, back then childhood obesity, wasn't even something that you would put together. I was one of two kids in my class that was in that state of unhealth, you know, and, and so it was very alienating and, uh, and to be fair, you know, I think I alienated myself more than others were alienating me if you know what I mean. I wasn't good in social settings. That's where it started. So, sorry, go ahead. Roy - Feeding Fatty (06:15): No, no, I was just going to say, you know, that is, uh, it's such a tough age and I, I gotta hand it to you that you overcame it even, uh, because that, uh, unfortunately those, um, the ridicule, the self down, everything kids go through at that time period, sometimes it leads to even worse troubles as adults. So I think, uh, congratulations that, you know, you were able to work yourself out of that. That's amazing because I I'm the opposite. I was skinny as a kid, like to the skinny, to the point of my grandparents would be like, Oh my God, you've got to eat something. You know, we need you to eat because I was just very thin, but, you know, I beefed up through high school and athletics and then, uh, you know, put my weight on as an adult. So I, luckily I've never been chastised too much. So I can't even imagine what you must have gone through, you know, as, as a, that age group. Dai (07:09): Yeah. I mean, children are mean most of the time, but I was gonna say, teens can be cruel, you know, like it's, it's really, uh, and, and so, you know, I had a few friends, um, but even then, you know, if we were hanging out, it wasn't like we were playing, we were playing video games or watching movies or eating junk in the races. I had that, that body type, because I'd been doing that for so long. I have a body type that it is fairly easy for me to put on weight. It just, it is, I can, but I mean, it works to my advantage as well, because as soon as the flip switched, you know, uh, yeah, right. I flipped the switch happened and I made that shift. Right. I, it, it worked my advantage because, uh, when I, especially when I got into weight training and more resistance type training, I, I saw myself develop much more musculature, you know, so developing muscle mass, uh, but it also changed how I fueled myself, you know, so I started eating different foods and foods that were more in alignment with the lifestyle that I wanted, the way I want it to feel. Roy - Feeding Fatty (08:19): Was there a catalyst for that change that something happened? Did it, how did that, how did that come about? Dai (08:26): Well, you know, up, up until the day that the catalyst, you know, like there, there was that moment where, and I think we hear about this often, you know, when people really reach that point where there really is no other option, but to embrace change and really become very proactive in our own lives to facilitate the change. You know, we realize that we've got to do something different than we've been doing to get different results. Otherwise, you know, Einstein said it best, right. You're doing the same thing, expecting Speaker 4 (08:56): Different results. Uh, so leading up to that, you know, Dai (08:59): My parents were great. Uh, they were very, very supportive. Um, my I, my parents separated when I was nine, which is interesting, you know, at that time and years later, you know, putting it all together with some supportive of, of a counselor and psychologist, you know, I, I went through a period about 11 years ago where I just needed to start focusing inward, you know, really focusing on my own mental health and my own issues and, uh, dealing with the old trauma. And what I realized, you know, is I had a lot of unsettled stuff okay. From, from that period of my life. And a lot of that I carried forward in later years. So it would always come up and I won't get into that so much right now, unless there's time. But what, back in those days, you know, I, uh, my parents were very supportive from the standpoint. Dai (09:45): They saw that I was hurting, you know, and they saw that I was in pain. They saw that was unhappy. They just wanted to make their son feel better. And they wanted them to happy, you know, healthy and happy. So they would often come and try to encourage me or invite me to try things like, how about we get your, or, you know, it's, uh, I mean, we seek out a nutritionist, we try to eat a little bit differently or, you know, can we get your gym membership? Like just little asides, you know? And, and I know they were coming from a place of love, but I'll tell you when you're in that place of hurt and you're already have a lot of self doubt. And, you know, if I ever saw my reflection, I would instantly, you know, just become very angry. Yeah. You know, upset at myself. Dai (10:28): And so here they are coming to try to help me, but I took it as an attack. Yeah. You know, and, and this is why I like to bring this up, because I think a lot of us can relate to this. We feel this at times in life, where those that love us and care for us, they come to us wanting to support. They make suggestions and make recommendations. They offer it up and they take it as if they're saying we're not enough. Right. You know, we're not good enough. We need to change. And that's how I took it then. So, you know, I would push back. I would act out and, uh, I could be mean at times, you know, just really not happy. And so over these years, you know, they, they basically just let me be, you know, try to support me as best they could. Dai (11:12): And, uh, but I had to come to grips with myself, you know, that, Oh my goodness, if I'm not happy where I am, I'm going to have to take ownership of this and make some changes, but it didn't come to that by accident. You know, I remember being at my father's place one weekend and, uh, I used to have this hack, you know, if I, if I got in the shower, cause I really had, didn't like seeing my reflection. I mean, there's very few pictures of me, of that period in my life because I would avoid social settings. I would avoid cameras. I just, no, you don't know. I mean, I used to forge my mom's signature on notes. I didn't have to do for Zen class. Cause that meant I'd have to change in the changing with a bunch of other kids, no way I'm taking shirt off. Dai (11:54): And so my life was highly compromised that way. And uh, I got really good at it. And one of my hacks was I'd have to get in the shower, turn on the water, really, really hot, get it super steamy in there, stay in there and actually long time. So when I get out here will be covered in condensation, all fogged up. I wouldn't have to look at myself toweling off this morning. My dad was rushing me cause he didn't have to get my brother and I somewhere and we could have been going bowling. I don't even know what it was, but it was mid morning. And he's just, he's like I was going to, I'm going to have a shower saying, okay, well you got hurry and you know, he's knocking on the door and it's like, come on, we gotta go. And uh, so I rushed it that you remember coming out of the shower and um, talent off and I can see my profile in the mirror and I turn and I lock eyes and I'm filled with anger with hate discussed and uh, I just lose it and uncontrollable sobbing, you know? Dai (12:47): And uh, I felt overwhelmed with emotions, just like, how is this me? Right. You know, like you're looking at yourself, but it's like, you don't know yourself, recognize you don't recognize who you've become. Wow. Yeah. And it's as, I mean I'm 14 at this time. And there was like, Oh my gosh, my limited scope in life at that period in time, my limited perspective on life, it felt really hard. Right. You know, it was really hard just acknowledging that this is me. And, uh, I started having thoughts and it, you know, at periods of time throughout those years, I mean, I would entertain the idea of like life would probably just easier for wasn't living. You know, it wouldn't be easier. My parents would be easier on me, like not having to deal with all this, but it never really felt like a true option. Dai (13:31): So as much as I entertain the idea, I never acted on it. And uh, this, that morning, it was like, that's not really an option, even though it was still there. You know, that idea just to be so much easier because it wasn't easy way around, but I didn't want to do that to my parents. And I didn't want to do myself. I didn't want him to live. And uh, but I wanted to like living. Right. And uh, so I've found myself realizing I was at a fork in the road. You know, it was like, because you know, after 14 I had had five years and I was like, man, things weren't trending in a good direction. So I was aware enough to realize that, you know, for the next five years I keep doing what I'm doing. I don't think it's gonna be better than it is right now. Dai (14:10): In fact, I, I, I admit it will probably be worse. So that's to the right. Well, here's this path to the left. That is completely unknown to me. It's still scary because I don't know what to do or what to expect, but maybe if I do something that's a little bit differently, maybe I can change. Maybe I can get healthy because I want to be healthy. I want to be happy. I want to like who I am. So I came into that bathroom with this conviction, you know, eyes, all bloodshot from crying. And then I approached my dad after I got dressed and I'm like, I want to get healthy. Then I don't want to be this way. And he must've realized, you know, you got to strike the animal. It's Speaker 4 (14:49): Hot. Cause, cause Dai (14:52): He had the awareness and I'm so grateful for this. But you know, within a matter of days he took me to buy a mountain bike. I said, I want a bike. You know, I want a bike because that way I didn't have to be in a Republic to work out because that was not an option. I'm not going to a gym or any of that stuff, no way, but a bike I could manage, I could ride a bike. I used to like riding a bike as a kid. And so it was like, I couldn't get a bike and it took me to get a bike. And uh, that literally after that weekend I just started cycling every day I had, I borrowed my dad's am or, well, I guess it was an am FM. You remember the Sony wall in the yellow ones? Dai (15:29): I think many of us have had those, you know, I'm totally dating myself, but I, I, I borrowed it and it was great because it had the automatic flip on it. Right. We would always play one side and then flip the other side. So I had to, on one side I had one of my favorite Canadian bands, tragically hip. And then on the other side I had an Alison chains and I knew that I would just start writing when the hip stopped plan and it flipped over. And I started hearing Alison change time to turn around and go home. Speaker 5 (15:55): And Dai (15:55): So it wasn't a matter of a distance. I just did it based on the music. So it was, it was about an hour, you know, I'd be out cycling and, uh, and it was hard. I'll admit it, it was really hard because I was really ashamed. I mean, I'd gone up a flight of stairs. I had to be out of breath and get a little bit of a glow on because I'd start sweating and uh, you know, just everything was compounded, right. When you're unhealthy, when you're feeling, not fit. Right. Not healthy, not, well, it just makes the usual minor things in life feels so much more like major things in life, you know, like when more difficult, uh, that's definitely the place I was in. And so that was it. I just committed to that. And I went to the library and got books out on fitness nutrition, and my kids still laugh. They're like, why don't you just Google it then? And I'm like, I'm old, I'm older Speaker 5 (16:41): Page. Dai (16:43): Yeah. And it's funny. Right. And so I educated myself. Right. And I just trusted that, Hey, other people have done this and other people who've lost weight. My mom was a big fan of Richard Simmons and then was swept into the eighties. I remember her putting on the old VHS tapes and just giving her and, uh, I used to, and I feel bad, but it was, I used to make fun of her because I'd be like, well, you know, it's just so funny. Right. And, uh, but it was awesome because, you know, she was role modeling me that, you know, you could do something at home just basic and here's this guy, but he sent him to edit an inspiring story. And then he would always show the clips on his shows, right. Or the infomercials of the people that lost all this weight. And so it was like, people can lose weight, people can change. Dai (17:23): So why can't I? And so I just trusted the process and I was consistent and I want to take that away. You know, it's like I was consistent with how I fuel myself, nourish myself. I was also very consistent with how I moved my body. And I started to feel a difference, you know, feel a change within just a matter of a month. Things started to just get better. And, uh, I CA I maintain that for after 20 months. Uh, I realized, you know, without even really think that I, I just had this new lifestyle, but also I'd become quite fit and you can quite healthy. And a lot of the psychological and emotional benefits of that also started to manifest, you know, I had more confidence in myself. I all of a sudden started to hang out with certain people. And also one of the biggest extrinsic motivators for me was I just wanted a girlfriend. Dai (18:14): I'm being completely honest. I, I did. I wanted, like, I mean, the underlying thing was, I just wanted someone to want me. Right. Yeah. I mean, that really was it. And, uh, and so I had a girlfriend as well and mean, you know, so life just was like, wow, this is amazing. And, and, and just to close out on this, what was super interesting, and this is really what was my catalyst for, for committing to this path as a life, you know, not just the lifestyle, but this is what I do for life. You know, like for, for, not only my vocation, but it's just, I love doing it. I mean, if I didn't get paid to do it, I'd still do it. You know, because when I started, that's how it was, I wasn't getting paid. I was just doing it for fun and for free, because I just wanted to help people. Dai (18:54): But at 17 friends of my parents would come around the house, you know, and I often, I was just thinking to come and say hi to my mom, you know, or, or whatever. And they come in, they say, I don't know. And then they pulled me aside and be like, Hey Dan, can I ask you a few questions? And cause they'd seen this transformation, this change that I'd had. Right. And so they would come and pick my brain. They would ask about fitness, they'd ask about nutrition. They would say what they were doing, what they wanted to achieve. And I was like, you care what I have to say? Like, you're, you're asking, are you sure you want to ask me, you were asking me this. And that was a first time in my life, you know, 17 years of life where I felt like people actually cared about what I had to say, but I also felt I had value to offer. And it felt so good to help people. And, uh, and that's what got me excited about coaching and mentorship and just helping people with transformations and, you know, fast forward now, 44 years old, I'm still doing it, but that's sort of where it started, you know, Terry - Feeding Fatty (19:48): Incredible that you were able to, to, to act on that at that age. I mean, kudos to you, my goodness. What a, what a hard, hard road. Dai (20:00): Well, I want people to know it was not easy, but, but big changes rarely are easy. I mean, it's easy to get started and it's challenging to sustain it, but one thing for certain it's always worth it. Yeah. It's always worth it. You know? So it's like any challenge or obstacle we overcome when you look back on it. Yeah. When you're going through it, it's hard, right? Like you're, you're surrounded by it. You're engulfed in it. You, you can't see anything else, but the challenge and the obstacle, but as soon as you get through it on the other side and you turn around and look back and it's like, is that all it was, you know, it's amazing how our perspective changes so quickly, as soon as we get through that challenging bit. And, uh, and, uh, so I have to remind myself of that. And I have at number of periods of my life where other challenges popped up, it was a nice lesson to learn that early on life because I realize change is possible, you know? And I can be, Roy - Feeding Fatty (20:52): Yeah, I'll just say again, it goes along what we were talking about. Uh, you know, pre-show about the, um, that, that coin I have, that the obstacle is the way that sometimes, you know, and the other thing that's kind of important about that is that, uh, know there's a place here called the great sand dunes. And if you climb up to the top of the first one, you can see like, then there's another and another and another. And I think that's another important thing to remember, you know, in, in not only in wellness, but in life is that we never reached the top of the mountain. I mean, it's always, there's always another Hill and we always have to keep working and keep climbing. I think as long as we can resign ourselves to this fact that we're, we always need to grow reevaluate and, uh, you know, in order to make those positive changes. But another thing, what I was going to ask you about was on the nutrition side, you know, you talked about getting the bike and getting out there every day and exercising, but did you make some big, uh, nutritional changes as well? Dai (21:53): You know, the nutritional, well, I mean, they were big, but not insurmountable. I think there's a difference there, you know what I'm saying, big shift. It was because, you know, my mom and just to give you a little bit more context to how life was at that time, uh, you know, my parents separated and we'd see our dad every other weekend. He had a, a business that he was still building, you know, and, and, and he, he, he just had a wonderful work ethic as well. And, uh, and at that time, you know, I kind of resented his work schedule and the fact that he worked so much, um, but it was later on in life. I realized that I actually didn't hire at a ton. And, and I modeled a lot of his work ethic and my mom had a similar work ethic. And at that time, after my dad had left and got his own place, and my mum was looking after my brother and I, uh, full full-time, she's also working full time, as well as going back to school to get her master's and, and so her life. Dai (22:49): And then on top of that, she's trying to, to find a potential next mate, you know, next life partner. And so she was busy, you know, like really busy. And so my brother and I would tend to have a fair bit of time to ourselves, you know, especially as we got over the age of 10 and we'd have more autonomy. And, and it was just based on, uh, circumstances. And, uh, so my mum would often buy foods that were quick to produce quick to cook, you know, easy for my brother and I, and that that'd be like pizza pockets, a little, the little McCain, pizzas. I mean, Costco, uh, one of the things I used to eat a lot of was a, you know, those muffin trays at Costco, right? Those are not Moffitt's, I'm sorry. They're little cakes. Dai (23:38): Oh. And they were like 1500 calories. Like, I didn't understand what calories, but once I educated myself and understood how food works, like macronutrients, calories, just really foundational stuff. As it relates to nutrition, not super complicated stuff, like I'm not going to get into like the Krebs cycle and how creatine works and how our muscles produce lactic acid. And that all came later. I just wanted to understand the fundamentals. And as soon as I understood that, and I understood how to read labels, right. Everything started to change. And I started asking myself, okay, well, it's really hard to find foods without sugar. I was like, Holy smokes. Cause you know, sugar wasn't vilified back then, like it is now, right. I mean, back then it was really fat was vilified, right. That was during that whole time to remember during the eighties, and even during the nineties, they were like fads bad for you. Don't eat fat Speaker 4 (24:27): Heart attack. It's funny. Now what's one of the most Dai (24:30): Popular diets out there. The keto diet, we're just pretty much right. Speaker 4 (24:34): All fine, Dai (24:37): Which don't get me started. There's a whole nother conversation there, but, but with the basics, I just started eat more whole foods. I took an interest in actually starting to prepare meals for our family because my mom would come home. You don't want to be after six, by the time she got home, I have to work. And I'd already been home for a few hours. I had this new passion for getting healthy and I took it upon myself to take a lot of wrong ingredients and start making meals, you know, I didn't have a, a large breadth of meals, but I got really good at making a couple of studios. And Chili's, you know, especially, you know, Ontario in the winter, it's cold, you want warm food. So I got really good at making that kind of stuff and you know, less things out of boxes, more things that were whole food unprocessed. And that was really the gist of it. And I cut sugar out and started drinking lots of water. Like that's it, you know, that along with the fitness, you know, just moving my body every day with a little bit of purpose. And when I say with purpose, it's like, I'm moving my body to elicit a positive response, such as get a bit of a globe. You know, as my wife says, I don't sweat. I glisten, Speaker 4 (25:42): I sweat. Okay. I sweat a lot and I love it. And, uh, Dai (25:49): So that's what I would look for. Just sweat a little bit every day and, and watch what I eat. Good things are gonna happen. And to be honest though, at the start, it was really a big, big, big change, right? So you get the headaches, you get the, you know, there's a little lethargy, like there's your, body's like rebelling because five years of doing the thing a certain way and trying to change it overnight, obviously there's pushback. And just physically, especially, you know, also psychologically and emotionally, I mean, there's lots of stuff happening, but I trusted that it would get better. And the thing that really helped me shift, like go from, okay, this is a good idea. I think it might work. This may work. It might, it might work to the point where it's like, this is working and I'm doing this and I love it and I'm going to keep doing it. And that was about three and a half weeks in. Speaker 4 (26:36): You reminded Dai (26:36): Me of this. When you, you mentioned the dunes because this was concession street, uh, road, I would, which is sort of, it was the border of our town, right. There's always those little roads that are sort of at the very outskirt and it's sort of that barrier that everybody would refer to. And, and I live just off of it. So I I'd cycle up it in, and there was this Hill and I say it Hill because that's really what it is. But to me at that time, it was Everest. Okay. It was a big Hill and here I am, this obese kid on his bike riding up to this Hill and I'm like, Oh my God. I said, big Hill. You know, I don't know if I can do this. And, and I just remember trying and get into about a third of the way up. Dai (27:14): And it was just like, I'm not moving like floating right now. And all of a sudden, and inside, I was like, Oh, I should just turn angled, go back. I mean, I obviously can't do this. You know? Um, I just failed that very first till I came to you, can't do this. Like, what am I thinking? But then, you know, I'm getting off the bike. I know what's at the top of the Hill. I know it flattens out and I know where it goes. So I just walked my gut and I did. And then I got back to cycling again, you know, listening to my, my tape and just going about my day and every day I'd come back to that Hill. It was about three and a half weeks in. I ascended the top without getting off the bike to the top, you know, and three and a half weeks. Dai (27:58): And, and when I got to the top of that Hill, my mountain, you know, it was like, Oh my gosh, I did that. I did that. And because you know, the number on the scale, wasn't changing a lot, my belt size, wasn't changing a lot, like certain metrics numbers, like, you know, how the fitness industry works and that's, I got a love, hate relationship with it because we're so quick to quantify things, right. How much should we, you know, what's your dress size? How fast can you run a mile? How many pushups can you do? Like w w we quantify things so quickly, and I want to qualify things I want to look at, how do things actually affect our life? You know, the emotional connection to the things of why we do what we do, especially when it comes to lifestyle change. And so when I got to the top of that mountain, that Hill, I was like, I did this. Dai (28:47): And my belief in myself was like, highest it's ever, ever been. And at that moment, I knew like this is happening. This is working because I'm doing it, you know? And, uh, that was it. That was my turning point. I, in Canada, we have a network called TSM, which is these sports network. You know, it's like the ESPN in the States. And, uh, we have a TSN turning point. This is always the highlights where they showed the games. And in those show where, you know, it's that moment in a game where things just switch and you know, that the team that's losing all of a sudden, Whoa, they make a play, they score. And now the energy shifts and they ended up winning. Right. And I called that moment in my life at TSN turning point. That was it. So, so yeah, that's, that's sort of in a nutshell, you know, Roy - Feeding Fatty (29:31): Well, that's a couple of cool things, but number one is you, you unknowingly at the time, but you had a measure. So you, you know, you started the Hill third of the way, but you were able to work your way up, which kind of brings up a couple, uh, a couple math equations to think about. And one of the biggest for me was thinking about, okay, how fast does it take to eat a calorie, versus how quick does it take you to burn one off? And this is, you know, cause a lot of people like I'm gonna, I'm gonna continue to, um, I'm gonna continue eating this way, but I'm going to go out and walk or jog or do this or do that, but not make a nutritional change. And then they, they like, well, I can't make it. It's not nothing's happening for me. Roy - Feeding Fatty (30:19): And so I know the, the numbers that I've gotten is like 3,500 calories equals a pound. So basically if everything is an equilibrium and you're where you need to be, you're eating your 2000 calories and life is good. You're holding. If you eat 3,500 extra calories that week, you will gain one pound in, you know, somewhere in there. I'm sure it's approximate. But so if you think about how much like me, I think about my little package of m&ms and a package of chips, I don't even know what they are. Probably, you know, five, six, 700 extra calories right there that it took me about five minutes to consume. And then last night I walked 45 minutes on a treadmill, pretty decent pace, a little bit of incline. You know, I was like a hundred and I didn't put my weight in. So it was probably judging me off of a little slider built person. But anyway, I burned, you know, about 145 calories. So if we just stop and think for a minute, it's M you know, sometimes it's input and output. It's like, what are we putting in our mouth? And how are we burning that off through the day? It's a huge awakening or can be, it was for me anyway. Dai (31:39): Yeah. Well, that's, I mean, I think you're spot on with that realization because it's true, right? Like, it doesn't take much to, especially when we're looking at certain types of foods and there's a lot of content out in the world now that talks about not all calories are equal. Right. You know, and yes and no, uh, there's truth to that. And it's true. Like, you eat a calorie of sugar, you need a calorie of, of spinach, your body treats it very differently, very directly to get that calories. Spinach might be a cup of spinach in volume where we're talking about less than the Cuba sugar. Right? Exactly. It's very different. And also that composition in spinach, it's mainly fiber. Right. And we already know fiber doesn't get processed by your body. So, and this is the neat thing about the keto diet, right? Like they talk about different types of carbohydrates and you know, there's some that are basically net zero, you know, you could eat the calories, but you actually end up, it's like eating celery, right? Dai (32:43): Yeah. You burn more calories than what the calories are provided in celery, because mainly just water and fiber, your body doesn't process it, but we need fiber too. And, uh, but so that's a great realization though, because when you start putting in that perspective, it's like, okay, well I could have this, but that could be 300 burpees. I always tell people, you should do it in your car. If you'd make it. Burberry's he's not walking. You really look at it different. Cause I used to do that with some of my clients and I'll be like, it's okay. Treat every burpee, like one calorie. So you want an extra a hundred calories today. It's okay. Do it. But you got to do an extra, a hundred burpees when you work out and be like, okay, it ain't worth that. Roy - Feeding Fatty (33:24): There's a, there's another, another concept in finance, it's compounding, you know, which is kind of the Genesis for, you know, a lot of the financial calculations and how, you know, again, that was a huge awakening for me. Uh, you know, as a young person to figure all that out. But, uh, there's a good book called the slight edge and I think everybody should read it. And it basically it's this compounding factor is that had you gone out and re written your bike one day and threw it in the garage, you would never gotten up to the top of the Hill, or if you had to read it one day and then six months later taking it back out. And so it's that compounding effect of riding that bike every day or eating the right combination. And, you know, we always say, we're not doctors, please seek medical attention, you know, to get your diet straightened out, get a dietician, whatever you need to do. Roy - Feeding Fatty (34:23): But let's just say, you know, if you eat right multiple days in a row, the compounding effect is unbelievable versus, you know, like I go through those spells, like, Ooh, I'm really eating right today and I'm going to the gym. And then tomorrow is like, what's that pizza guys deliver? You know, what's that pizza number again, or we can call up. So I think that, you know, that consistency factor that you talked about compounding, however you want to talk about it. It's important. It's important in a lot of aspects of life, but also when we're talking about getting healthy. Dai (34:58): Yes. So about, you know, one of my favorite books complementary to that book is the compound effect. And that was one that really opened my eyes, Slack, the whole concept, right? Like as much as we all love compound interest compounding the negative in our life, not so good. Right. Roy - Feeding Fatty (35:19): Not looking at it that way too is, uh, you know, like last night, if I'm in the gym walking for 45 minutes, I'm not at home sitting on the couch eating for 45 minutes. So it's like a double, it's a double good too it's as well, but it's really smart. The other thing is motivation me. Uh, you know, we were talking, me and Terry were talking a little bit last night or this morning, like I have had a few days out of the gym, got back in it, you know? And I, it just, it lifts me so much in so many ways. I feel better physically, mentally. I mean, today I've been like so alert and, uh, you know, a lot of good creative thoughts, but it's not the part is the problem is not the gym. It's the distance between, you know, my chair at my desk and, and the gym front door, if I can ever, if I can conquer that distance. Um, yeah, I'm awesome. But it's, I just have to be honest and say, you know, I have trouble conquering that. Dai (36:23): Hmm. You're not alone at all. You know, I think we can all relate very much to what you just shared. And I often will say, you know, motivation's great, but it's, we're often looking for things outside of us to motivate us, to move where I like to kind of flip it a little bit and say, well, what would inspire you to move? You know, what would be that internal connection that would just get you fired up every time? So you go from like, I really need to go to the gym or I have to go to the gym today to, you know, what I get to go to the gym today. It was bring an awesome, you know, it now it's not easy if it was, I just give you like, Oh yeah, here's the formula, you know, that checks in the mail, you know? Dai (37:12): Uh, but it's, it's not so simple cause it's, it is a little bit of reflecting, but also taking some time to actually ask ourselves, well, what is the life I want to be living five years from now, 10 years from now, how about 20 years from now? You know, what is that lifestyle? What are the things I want to be able to do and do without thinking about it? Yeah. And often in some of the most basic things, like I remember a few years back, my mom going on a bus trip with my, or sorry, a bus tour in Scotland with my stepdad, you know? And, uh, my mom is battled with her weight, most of her life. And so, and she's also, now that's my arthritis in her knees and that's from a past car accident. So, you know, there's not much we can do with that. Dai (38:02): So there is certain things, but, you know, adding the extra weight on top of the arthritic knees or ankle, it compounds things in a very unhelpful way. And, but I remember thinking when she was talking about it, like there was a lot of times where they would get off the bus at various places and she'd have to be required to walk, but she wouldn't be able to. Yeah. And, and it is such a basic thing that we take for granted is just her ability to be mobile right now to move to care for ourselves. And so it's being that honest with oneself and recognizing, okay, well, this is how much I've changed in the last 10 years. You know, if you look back 10 years ago, where were you at health wise then? And where are you now? And now it's like forward setting. And he was like, okay, well on the 10, 20 years of the habits and the lifestyle that I'm living now, do I envision myself being able to continue to live the quality of life that I want to. Yeah. Roy - Feeding Fatty (38:56): Yeah. And I think that that's Dai (38:58): Always worked well for me, you know, I was getting very clear on that. Roy - Feeding Fatty (39:01): Yeah. And I think the compounding factor is something that I think about with that as well, is that, you know, getting to my age, it's like the, you know, poor behaviors going forward are going to be compounded to the point of, like you said, just, you know, is it shorten your life? Is it, uh, make you less mobile where you just can't enjoy it? And you know, like, uh, uh, do you have type two diabetes? So I'm always trying to keep that under control. And I was reading, um, some, um, you know, the top 10 causes of death came across the internet the other day. So diabetes is like number seven, but then, um, you know, like number nine is renal failure. And then, you know, the footnote that this is mostly caused by, uh, diabetes. So, you know, it's like, it's, uh, it, it basically ranks number seven and number on number nine on the top 10. Roy - Feeding Fatty (39:57): So, you know, these are important things because, uh, not only can they kill you, shorten your life, but I think that they can debilitate you into, uh, to a place that nobody really wants to go live. So, so many, so many important factors, especially the older we get, we just, and you know, it would have been awesome. Had I been thinking about this more 10, 20 years ago, but you know, we are where we are. So now I have to think about, um, I have to redouble that effort because I, you know, I want to, I don't want my, uh, I don't want my lifespan to outlive my health span. Dai (40:37): Yes. Right. Yeah. And very well said, you know, and I agree. I mean, I think it really comes down to just wanting to over simplify it, please. Like those that are listening. I know it's not always easy, but it'll always be worth it. I know that for a fact, after being through periods of unhealth in my own life, numerous times, and sometimes because of my own volition, sometimes not, you know, I was just, I mean, I was diagnosed with an autoimmune, like a chronic auto immune disease, a number, but eight years ago, and that rocked my world, you know, it did cause leading up to that, I mean, when they're doing all those tests and the bone marrow biopsies, I mean, they thought I had leukemia, you know, there's a lot of fear there. And I was like, how did that happen? How did that happen? Dai (41:28): And, and, you know, it came back eventually that was not immune diseases. It's still pretty serious. But fortunately for me, based on lifestyle choices, I can mitigate a lot of the sentence. I can lead a life that's very high in quality, you know? And I, I'm very optimistic that I'm going to get the quantity too, you know, in the years and, and the experiences, but I've definitely had to, to shift some of my lifestyle habits based on that appearing in my life. So sort of what you're sharing about type two diabetes, you know, when we have these, these health, everyone call them issues, but they're, there, there really are just these moments, right. Where we're presented with health challenges. And sometimes they come based on lifestyle choices and sometimes they just happen. Right. Yeah. We don't absolutely know what was the trigger. Like I like to think, man, I was living in a pretty healthy, active life. I eat really well, you know, like I manage stress. Okay. At least even not as well as I could have 10 years ago, but much better now. And, you know, so I, I'm very aware and I think it's that mindfulness that, that awareness that we have of just repercussions of some of our actions being present. Yeah. Knowing, knowing what's going on right at the moment. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we all are aware aren't we like did to some level we're aware of what we're doing, but yeah. It's really tough. Roy - Feeding Fatty (43:00): A good point about, you know, about getting sick. And, um, I think about like athletes is that, you know, you see these guys on the, uh, only American football field. Let's take those guys. You know, they get hit hard, a lot of fallen. Now, if I was out there and somebody hit me that hard or fell down, you know, that'd be the end of me, but because they're in such awesome shape, they are able to take a lot of that punishment. And so I think we can translate that to, into, uh, to our bodies. Our health is that if we have a healthy body, if we're eating right and we're doing everything we need to do, where we are able to fight some things off better, um, than if we were unhealthy. And then we were able to survive through some of those things that we really don't have a choice, you know, that may, uh, afflict us in some way, but we are much able to navigate through that if we are healthy and in good shape. So just something else. I think we, you know, always good to keep in mind. Dai (44:04): It's so true. And actually that reminded me, you know, the doctors, I remember my hematologist, especially like she figures I've had this probably most of my life. Um, it's just because of my lifestyle choices and the way I just live my life. It really masked any of the symptoms from ever appearing, you know, and even if they were there, but I started putting things two and two together because I would get sick or I would get a cut or a bruise and it would take a long time to heal, you know? And like, I get like the flu and I'd be out for almost two weeks sometimes. And it was just like, why don't I just take off? And when I do, Oh my do I get sick? And my wife used to bug me all the time. Right. Because before we knew about the condition and she'd be like, get in the bed, man, like just a man called [inaudible]. Dai (44:58): But no, when she went and then, you know, it was funny after the diagnosis came down and she's like, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize that this was going on. And, and, uh, but it was interesting, right? Like, I mean, being someone that also was in the fitness equipment industry for 17 years, uh, I used to deal with a lot of people that would come in to buy equipment for their homes or for their facilities, but specifically in the homes. And very often you get people coming in and be like, Oh, what brings you into today? You know, you look for some strengths and cardio what's up. And uh, well, my doctor sent me it's you could tell they didn't want to be there, not there because the doctor said, you got to go do this. You're going to die. Right. And they come in, they buy the equipment, they have the best of intentions to use it. And then they go, yup. I mean, this is the cliche, right. We go on like the Craigslist, the marketplaces, and look into equipment. And it's like, you're lucky if you find a picture of just the product without clothes on it. Right. Roy - Feeding Fatty (46:00): Yeah. I mean, I've had a few of those. Yeah. I've seen those background pictures of the, you know, take a Christmas picture. And then in the background, you see the, a treadmill with all the laundry hanging on the side of it. Yeah. Dai (46:12): Yes. And I used to hate that about the industry, you know, that, that, that cliche was even existing, you know, that we would, people joke about it. They come in and are like, Oh, I'm going to buy this, but I'll probably just end up as a coat hanger. I'm like, what are you talking about? You just told me that your doctor said you're going to die. Like what is going on here? And it just makes me wonder, you know, like that was something that used to really eat at me, you know? Cause I want to help people. I want them to feel empowered that they can make the changes that they want to make. And so it used to frustrate me. It made me feel sad and, and make me question a lot of time, what am I doing? You know? Cause I didn't feel I could really support them in the change. Dai (46:58): Right. Some new equipment. And then, you know, you do some follow ups here and there to see other doing, but often they wouldn't never reply because they feel guilty to reply because they did admit that they weren't using it. So it wasn't, it was rarely a pleasant followup where I'd get a message. Oh, we're loving it. It's great. Yeah. I've lost 20 pounds every once in a while we get that. But it wasn't the average, it wasn't the majority. Right. You know? And, and uh, so that led, that was also fueling me for making some big changes. Just my career, because I was like, I just didn't feel like I was really making a dent. Terry - Feeding Fatty (47:35): Yeah. That's what I was going to ask was how do you Tran how'd you transition out of selling the equipment to what you're doing now? Dai (47:46): Well, for me it was this, I wanted to help people by just giving them information, just really providing info and, and you know, people take it or leave it. It didn't matter to me. I just wanted to share. And it was fortunately for me, like when I started blogging about 13, 14 years ago, like I just started putting content up and I was sort of inspired because I had read Gary Vaynerchuks first printing of crush it. Do you guys remember crushing it? I didn't read that. Or if this is like back when he still had like wine library, right? Like his old YouTube channel and before Gary Vaynerchuk was, you know, dominated the internet. And uh, but I remember reading that because I used to do a lot of marketing for my past company. And, uh, I'd be responsible with helping with some of the purchases of our media buys and we're buying TV. Dai (48:34): We were buying print Brian radio and you know, we'd spend the same amount of money every year. And I was like, man, we're not getting the same return here. We'd be scratching around what is going on here. And it's like, wow, this thing called the internet and the Google. Maybe it's a good thing. We take a look at that. And, and, and so we did, and then I read Gary Vaynerchuks book and I was like, wow, this guy's onto something. This makes so much sense. So I started really embracing social media and I started blogging just to create content, to share it with people because I thought that would compliment what I was doing on the fitness equipment side. Yeah. You know, it was like, here's a, but I also got some great articles. I got some programs, I got some free information that will support you with this equipment that you're buying. Dai (49:13): And so that was started the intention behind it. But then I realized, you know, not everybody has access to equipment. Not everybody has the means to have equipment in their home. And so I started to just change some of my belief systems around, you know, I used to be a gym rat, you know, I had one in the gym. That was my main thing. I'd go to the gym. I work out and I was like, well, that's what everybody should do. You know, again, this is in my twenties, right. Approaching my thirties. I was still in that mindset. Like, this is the solution, this is the best option. And for everybody, they need this. And as they say, I drank the Kool-Aid and I drank a lot of it and I was trying to serve it to anybody that was thirsty. Right. And, uh, and so I started just talking about the body as a piece of equipment calisthenics, right. Dai (49:58): They just body weight based moons, because then there really is no excuse. I mean, you got enough room to put a towel on the floor. You will get amazing workout and that space, like you can get a park outside your door. That's a gym, you know, there's really no excuse you, you, you travel, you, you hang out in a hotel every once in a while because you're traveling lot. No problem. That room, you can do this between the two beds, you know, like, and I started creating a lot of content that really supported that for people. And, uh, w which created a major riff, uh, in my, uh, company, because, you know, I had a lot of staff at that time. I also had a partner that was the CEO and, uh, my personal brand started to, to grow the business. And, uh, he's like dying. Dai (50:50): I remember one of my articles went viral on Reddit and crashed my site a couple of times. Cause I wasn't prepared for that kind of a spike. And, uh, and it was like 99 workouts you can do without equipment got shared all over the place. And uh, I remember all the staff as well as like my partner at the time, he was like, you gotta put us out of business. What are you doing? You are a mean, yeah, we, we were one of the top fitness equipment retailers in North America, you know, and here we are, the main guy, he was like, I was just the face of the company. So I'd often do the media stuff and all that. And uh, there him saying you don't need equipment. But the funny thing was, it actually increases it increased sales because it increased our brand recognition, also increase trust in our marketplace. Dai (51:40): People realized I was more motivated to help people just get well than I was to sell money. Right. And, uh, so that sort of fed into my desire to eventually leave. Cause I was just like, you know, this, this isn't a fit anymore. And not feeling like I'm making a big enough shift in people's lives here. And, uh, you know, as operator opportunities started to grow based on some of the things I was doing outside of work realized we had the options. But more than that, my wife had a desire for us to be a full-time family to travel while the kids still thought we were cool. Dai (52:14): And you know, that Terry door closes pretty quick. Yeah. And, uh, so yeah, I, I left a career 17 years and sorta just embraced a little bit of the unknown and I trusted that we'll figure it out. And, uh, I had written a book at the same time, as I was saying, sign an art to that career. And, and so at the same time it was published me. I quit my job. My wife quit her as a month later, a couple months after that, we took the kids out of school and gave away all our stuff, packed up what we decided to keep in her SUV and just started traveling and started chasing the sun. We drove down to like California and all around the States and back up to Canada in the summer drive around there and back to the States and then eventually made our ways overseas. And then we ended up in Bali and we lived there for over two years coming back to Vancouver. And, uh, uh, just, just before COVID, uh, we came back because our kids wanted to finish high school here in Vancouver. How exciting. So the last six years have been a bit of a ride. I'll tell you that, you know, Roy - Feeding Fatty (53:11): Well, we thank you so much for taking time out of your day. You know, one question I always like to ask is, so do you have a tool? I mean, it could be an app program or ritual habit, uh, you know, whatever that you feel really adds value to your wellness journey and that, um, you just couldn't live without every day. Dai (53:34): Oh, well, there's a couple habits. I know I've been really, really powerful just in my life. Um, a couple of which is just moving my body everyday with purpose for a minimum of 15 minutes, right? Like just a minimum, just 15 minutes. I mean, it's not very much tiny, right? Everyone's got at least 15 minutes that they can just dedicate to just moving their body. Right. And, uh, and hopefully creating a little bit of a sway. So you get a little bit of a positive effect. Uh, also meditation. And I encourage people minimum five minutes a day, and also feeding our mind now minimum 10 minutes a day, feed your mind with something positive. Maybe it's a Ted talk. Maybe it's a great podcast, right. Maybe it's just reading a great book or listening to a book like, and if you put those three things together, that's 30 minutes. Dai (54:26): That's 2% of every 24 hours. Wow. And that's it. I mean, that's the minimum. I encourage people, I guess people will say, is that all I got to do? I go, it's the least you deserve. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's the least anybody just like, you deserve to love yourself enough to give yourself at least 30 minutes a day, right. For your body, your mind and your spirit. And then I say, and I say, if you start to see some, some good things happening and you want to do more things lean into that, don't fight that don't think I'm only going to do three, like lean into it, do what you feel inspired or drawn to do, because all it takes is a little bit of the positive momentum to start to kick in. And it's amazing how that can just pick up speed and it'll open your eyes to a lot of things. And, uh, uh, I do have a five day sugar detox. It's just a free program on my website as well as a 28 day program. That's also free it models. My book gives people, the workouts gives them the full program. No hidden agenda here. It's just, I just keep giving all that stuff back. Dai (55:29): Make sure we get that out there. No, let me just do this real quick. [inaudible] but uh, I give it away for free my publisher. Doesn't like, there's been a giveaway, the digital copy for free, uh, in the program basically for free on my website. So Hey, if you want to buy it on Amazon or, you know, at Barnes and noble or whatever, Hey, feel free to plug, but, uh, it is free on the website. So why don't you tell us, tell us Roy - Feeding Fatty (55:58): Website so people can go over there and we'll be sure and include all that in the show notes, but tell people how they can find you. And if they want to reach out and get ahold of you, how is the best way to do that? Dai (56:09): Oh, thanks. Right. Yeah. It's pretty simple. Actually. It's the one advantage, you know, as you were asking me, Terry at the beginning, you know, before we started this interview, my name is pretty unique. Uh, Dai Manuel Dai, and then Manuel, I mean, U E L a, it's a sh slash Portuguese name. So a bit of a mix, as I said, everybody I'm Canadian, but if you go to diamond, weil.com, you'll find all sorts of stuff. And, uh, I, I do say like for those that are listening to this, if it's spring 2021, you will be seeing a new website very soon, which is a lot more user friendly. Uh, but there's over 1500 articles and resources out there that are all accessible. They're geared to help people get more of the life and help them get out of their own way to really lean into being their happiest, healthiest self. Dai (56:55): And, uh, so I always invite people just, Hey, have at it. And if you want to have a conversation, reach out to me on Facebook or Instagram, cause that's the easiest way and I'm most active on those channels, but, uh, that's it, you know, like I just want to acknowledge you too though. I think is, is, uh, one very brave to, to just be vulnerable and share your journey, uh, as it relates to living healthier, more active and making these changes. And I think it's, it's very inspiring as well to, to see you sharing your story, but also highlighting other people's journeys there, their tips or tricks or strategies. And I just think it's really, really cool. And, uh, I also, I do like the name so fantastic. So I just wanted to acknowledge you too. It's been an honor to be here too. Roy - Feeding Fatty (57:38): Well, thanks so much. We appreciate it. And it's, you know, we get, we get to meet a lot of great people like yourself and we get to, you know, bless our listeners with, uh, you know, not only your personal story, but your profession as well. So thank you so much for, uh, sharing with us. We appreciate it. Yeah. Terry - Feeding Fatty (57:55): Yeah. You've been very inspiring. It's been an honor to listen to your story and I'm so glad that you were able to share that with us today. Dai (58:04): Thank you, Terry. And thank you, Ryan. It's very kind of you to say again, it's a, it's a bit of a love Fest happening, right? [inaudible] you guys are awesome though. And I really appreciate, I mean, of course, if I can be of any help, please know that I'm always here and that goes for anybody out there. And uh, I, I take that offer not lightly. It's very serious. And I would say like, I'm, I'm just here to help. So reach out anytime. Terry - Feeding Fatty (58:27): And it's more of that on your website. I recommend to everybody go and check them out. It's it's well worth it. Yeah. Roy - Feeding Fatty (58:37): All right guys. Well, that's going to do it for us on this episode. Again, we appreciate our listeners as well. Uh, you can find us of course, at www dot feeding, fatty.com. Uh, we will have the, um, the audio component and the video component up there as well. We are on all the major platforms, Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, and a lot more out there. Of course, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, always there, and we'll have the copy of the video will be up on YouTube as well. So go out there, take a look, take a listen. If you have a good story over your own, don't hesitate to reach out to either myself or Terry. We'd love to hear from you and hopefully we can get you on the show soon. So until next time that's going to be it for us. Thanks so much. Terry - Feeding Fatty (59:27): Thank you. Appreciate it. www.feedingfatty.com          

Today's guest shares the value in trademarks and how they can help you protect your assets... even help you avoid a hostile takeover. Listen as she shares the unique differences between US, UK, and European Union trademarks and the weight that they carry. Please welcome Céleste Reumert Refn from Grand IPR. 0:24 - Céleste's Good and Bad at 2:37 - Céleste's Background 7:11 - Trademarks 8:23 - U.S Granting Trademarks 11:06 - Benefits of Avoiding Hostile Takeovers Contact Info   https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyn0SxR-CxKqJ_3W5CbqS9A https://www.grandipr.dk https://twitter.com/CelesteReumert   Celeste. How are you doing? Thanks for jumping on learning from others. Hey Dan, thank you for having me. How are you today? I'm doing good. Um, you know, you have an interesting background. We haven't talked to anybody in your space, so this will be a good new conversation. I like to start the discussion though, with two questions and question number one is what are you good at? What are we gonna learn from you today? That is so fantastic. Let me tell you right away. So what I do is I help ambitious. Scale-ups wanting to expand their market, reach, stop ignoring that business assets, inherit potential inherent potential, and start taking their business to the next level, by empowering them to actively protect their Mark with a trademark registration that I performed for them. So in short, I do to read my three new Wells. There you go. All right. And then opposite of that. What do you not so good at? I'm not so good at numbers. It seems like our guests are either one way or the other. They're either amazing at numbers or horrible at numbers. Yeah, not really. Not most of them. I'm actually in my little Slack and you know what? I didn't, I didn't. It wasn't discovered until after I had studied them. And I, I, you know, I discovered it myself cause, um, I was, I was coming through a pipe and I was still on Facebook. I'm no longer on Facebook anymore. And back then I was just commenting on some something I noticed because I can, I can actually stop when something is, is not spelled correctly. Or if there's something that seems a bit weird. So I, you know, very sort of, um, from a, uh, uh, kind of, kind of. Uh, perspective was trying to point this out to the past. And all of a sudden, all, uh, this person's friends were just jumping down my throat and sort of slagging me and, you know, uh, it ended up with me thinking, okay, maybe I'm. Dyslexic. So let me figure that out. And so I ended up doing a test and because of my age. So how does, so how does that visualize for you then? So you will spell something incorrectly, but the difference between you and other people with dyslexia is that you can realize there's something that's off and then you go back and look at it again. It's really, really weird because, uh, at that, um, place, uh, in Denmark, I was living in Denmark back then. Um, I don't know if you knew that about me, but I'm actually Danish. Uh huh. I'm a, I have a completely messed up because I'm Danish. I was born in Denmark, but I'm wonderful Swedish on my father's side. And then this, as you can hear, um, so I, I was, I w I went to that place, um, And he was sat in front of a huge old fashioned computer, you know, the stationary type that sat on your, on your desk and it has a huge tower next to it. Um, and, and then, uh, I was given a headset and in my ears, I couldn't hear a word. And on the screen, the word was misspelled and I couldn't pile the two. So that's really interesting. Yeah. Have you found sometimes I hear that people with dyslexia or other, you know, other conditions like that, that they, that overtime, they find that there's actually a power in it. So obviously there's, um, handicaps, you have to get familiar with and overcome, but once you. Overcome that I've heard other people say, well, yeah, helped me be more of a creative thinker. And now I accomplish more because they have to look at things differently. Have you, for you, have you found that there's any sort of power in this situation for you? I totally agree with that because obviously, you know, I, it wasn't discovered at school that I was dyslexic. I was, I was quite mature when it was discovered. Um, I started studying the law at the age of 35. So you can imagine it was much later that my, my dyslexia was discovered. So yes, I've, I've learned to do things in a completely different way. Plus the fact that I actually come from a line of people who are. Both creative and elements. So, you know, it's just been enhanced even further in me, I think. Yeah. That's interesting. Alright. Okay. Well that was a good discussion. So let's, but let's go, let's come back to your area of expertise. So as you said, you are really good at trademarks. Uh, why don't we start with the basics and explain what a trademark is. So a trademark is something that is used to distinguish your business from somebody else's business. That is, you know, I don't know if you've got a business or not, but, you know, anyway, um, it's it's to distinguish businesses or undertakings from each other, as we say, here in the UK. Um, and it's one thing to get something registered at what we refer to as how some companies is, they will just look at the way. Um, you know, you can be business, uh, AYA, Z, um, or ABC, and then you can have it business, uh, CDF, and they will not be, uh, that will not be a problem with companies house. Whereas within the trademark industry, um, we look very much at what is the industry that you're operating inside and. Are there any prior registrations. And if there are, then that is going to put a two, uh, show up as an issue for you because, um, they, they will want to protect, you know, we, we, the reason people protect their trademark is because they want to build up the Goodwill, the value of whatever is that they bring to the market. And, uh, at the end of, um, A person's life. They may either want to sell their business or they want, you know, um, for whatever reason, you know, or they may be ill and be forced to sell it. So there's a, there's a good reason to do so. And I know for a fact that businesses in the U S if they are, uh, to, to buy, uh, another business, if there is not a registered trademark, they will put the Goodwill at zero. So it's quite serious. Yeah, that that's significantly different than in the U S so I have three trademarks in the U S um, but none or, you know, required for, for business. Um, I think my first one, I didn't even get until I was already 10 years into business. So it's interesting how substantial the value of those, um, are over in, in year. So is that kind of apply all across Europe or more specific or more, more for specific countries? Well, um, I think that the U S is very little use about their trademarks compared to over here. Um, because I, I have noticed that they let people register things where I'm like, what, how could they do that? Um, whereas over here, we are very much focused on, uh, not infringing upon somebodies rights and it has to be a unique Mark and stuff like that. Um, and there are 11 different types that you know, that have trademarks. No. So you've got the, the word Mark. You've got the logo. You've got a sound Mark. You've got, um, Hologram. So there are, you know, there are some, let me just, cause I have a, I was familiar with some of those. Yeah. But I wasn't familiar with a, you know, like a hologram, for example. Now, when you say when, when you look at some sample cases in the U S and you say that you're surprised that they would Mark something like that, do you have any examples that you could give us that are surprising that, that, uh, the U S would grant a trademark for that? Well, um, I don't have anything off the top of my head, but I, I actually did a search for a client today, um, in a session. And I see that over there, you can, as long as you are the first one to register something, then, then you can do it, you know, and over here it's really, um, it really has to be something that is unique and. And it's not good enough that you're the first one sort of who's who who's registering it. If you catch my drift. Yeah. Yeah, the way that it works in the U S is, um, the, the trademark is kind of a timestamp, but it doesn't entirely mean that you have exclusive use, um, because in the U S it is first to use in commerce. So you may register a trademark, but if you never use it, or somebody can come in and prove that they used it in commerce before you, then that can override the trademark. Yup. Yup. I know that. Yeah. So, yeah, but it's, it's really interesting. And as I say, you know, uh, intellectual property rights is more or less the same all over the world. And then there's the U S damn us. Okay, good. So give us some examples of the types you don't necessarily have to give, uh, you know, exact client names or anything, but give us examples of the types of products or services or industries that you service for your clients. So, um, I normally just say scale-ups because, um, to, to, to point to one particular, um, industry can, can be limiting. Um, however, um, the client I worked with today was in, uh, financial services. So that's one of them and there's. Uh, another one, um, was doing a amusement park or something like that. If that makes sense. Yeah. So, uh, in, in the amusement park example, since that would be less intellectual property, or maybe I'm wrong, is that more trademarking their brand entity or did they also have intellectual property? So it was the, the, the name of the business that, Oh yeah. They had found this name that they wanted to register and then they had had somebody create a logo for it. So now one example that you mentioned before we talked to the benefits of this is avoiding hostile takeovers, uh, which, which was something that was surprising to me. Can you kind of talk about that? Yes. Because, um, Sometimes when a scaleup wanting to expand, they may want to invite in an investor and the investor is going to look at how well their assets are going to be protected in this new business that they are putting them money into, which is totally understandable by the way. So if they see that there isn't a registered trademark, they will consider that their investment will be at risk. And so they will perform ourselves. I have heard of this. I've not experienced it myself, but I've heard of it. So they, they will. Now in that example, is that the investor being. Are they really protecting themselves. So in that case where they already invested in, and so then they're protecting themselves or are there some times where investors see an opportunity and maybe they're not invested in it yet. Maybe they're in a discussion to invest. And then they see that as a weakness and, and then they come in without investing and then just try and take over. Is that possible? I haven't part of that. I I've actually spoken to somebody, um, in Denmark who, uh, had spoken to an investor and they had asked, so what are you doing about intellectual property? And that's when my name popped into their mind. And that's when they booked the time to talk to me. So I didn't think that they can do it without having performance. Having some sort of, um, maybe put, already perform the, they have some sort of access to the business. It's like they can't do it without access to the business. So they may have actually, I think, I think that they had put money somehow into the business and then they did the hostile takeover, but I'm not entirely sure of that process. Cause I, you know, I haven't experienced it myself, so I don't, I don't really know what, what they technically speaking do. Um, I just, I just know that it's, it is something that they, you know, they will look at, are you protecting your business assets? And if not, you know, they, they can perform the hostile takeover and certainly did in, in at least one situation that I've heard of. Yeah. So are there any heads up for people really? Yeah. Are there any interesting scenarios that you ran into during, I assume there's some sort of discovery process when you're looking to trademark something where you look into, you know, are there other conflicts, are there any other close trademarks or businesses that could claim this instead of you know, who you're working with during that discovery process? Has there been any interesting findings that have stories that come to mind? Well, uh, yeah, the, the, the impact thing, there was a really interesting thing because, um, while I was in the process of registering it, um, the trademark, the guy came saying, approach me saying, listen, there's actually somebody who's infringing upon my rights. So can you please handle that? Um, And then I asked him to furnish me with, um, with information because in Denmark she's a bit special to the rest of the world. As soon as you start using. The name as the business name, then you actually create, uh, right in Denmark. It's only, it's not like you can do that. I don't know why that is. Um, so because he had been using this name for quite a while before contacting me, or before me starting the process, I could then approach that person on, on his behalf saying yo fringing on my client's rights. So can you please stop that? Um, And then, um, you know, obviously I didn't hear for a while because they needed to find their own, um, IP specialists to consult with. And they were basically told that I and my client were in the rites and they were in the wrong, and that was the end of that business because that business name completely right in upon that name, um, So, so the idea was completely scuffled and a dream shattered in Germany and pieces. Is, is there a average length of time that, that the process takes to successfully acquire a trademark six to 12 months? And it's more likely to be 12 and six. What contributes to one trademark taking longer than another. The amount of work that the trademark, uh, authority, uh, has on their desks to go through. So not so much your individual application, but just start workload with other people. Yes, that's correct. And in the U S I know that there's a follow up period. I believe it's five years after the FERC first trademark claim. And then every 10 years after that, is there something like that in Europe? Nope. I mean the U S you have, yeah. And in the U S you have to, uh, provide proof of use is if I remember correctly, that's what you have to do after the five year period. And so in Europe, it sounds like once you own the Mark, you own it. Now, does it have an expiration period of a hundred years or when the business sells or when a person dies or how long does it last. So it's more or less the same, um, in, I think in Canada you have 15 years, but in Denmark and the rest of Europe, it's 10 years. And then you bring you it, and it's the same here in the UK. We're going to have to see if they're going to change anything related to this. Now that we're leaving the EU because we have until the 31st of December is yeah. Um, so that's a really interesting, so, so far it's still 10 years. So the trademark used to apply to the entire EU, but now if your Mark's in the UK, then it's only good for the yeah. Well, it, it depends very much on, on what you want because you can still apply for European one. Uh, even though the UK has stepped out, you can still apply for European one and get two in six countries on one go. The important thing to know though, is that if the trademark falls in one of the countries, it falls in the whole Europe. So you lose it in all 26 countries in one fell swoop. So that's not very nice. So it's really, really, really, really important to consider. Do I want a European one or do I want national ones? Um, you can register in the UK. You can. Yeah. And Mark, you can raise them in Sweden, Norway, and so on. Um, but yeah, it's really important to sit down and decide for yourself. Where is it? I want to, um, what market is it that I want to designate? Where do I want to trade? And then you. Take it from there. What what's the governing body or the agency that grants the, so if you're in the UK and you apply for an EU trademark, isn't still the EU. And this is just like one of the unique things that they're still allowing to apply to all of EU, even though the UK is left the union, or is this something that will be phased out? Well, um, you can, you can still apply to, to the EU. Um, you know, it's got nothing to do with whether you are, you know, cause uh, no way is not member in the EU and Switzerland, isn't the member. They can still apply and get coverage in EU if that's what they want. Got it. Um, so, so it's very much a question of where you want to expand. Into what market you want to take on. Um, and it's the same with the rest. And you know, there isn't a global trademark, so you have to very specifically know where you're going to go, because there is no way that you're going to cover the whole world because nobody does that. And that would be way too expensive for you anyway. So that's why we always say to people that, that are wanting to register a trademark. Take a look at what market you re realistically I want to go into, and then we will perform the registration. But it, you know, if, if you're not, if you're not interested in say taking the whole of you, then don't go for that. Just go for the local market. Say you want to move to Holland. For instance, then by all means, go for an application in Holland. They don't go for the whole U EU. Cause it is expensive. You know, what type of difference in cost is there between a single country, trademark and the whole EU? Well, if I remember correctly, um, the EU one is one classification. It very much depends also on the calcifications, you know? So it, it, so if we say that it's just one classification, I think there was something like 900 euros not long ago. Um, so, so you really want to think about why and where you want to go. Because here in the UK, it could be as little as 200 pounds. So it really varies from business to business and how many misclassifications you need. And so the classifications would be the example of earlier you saying there's 11 types, you know, logo versus sound versus hologram. Is that what you're referring to? No, a nice classifications is like, uh, legal services, financial services, uh, clothing, shoes, toys, that kind of thing. Oh, so you could actually have two layers of filing expense, you know, trademark expenses. One would be the classification and then the other would be the type. So like if you have multiple classifications and multiple types, Uh, you probably wouldn't have multiple types because that would be confusing to your ideal clients. So I would say, say for instance, um, say that you were in some sort of business and you wanted to use like a hologram instead of just a word Mark or, or a logo. So you would have the whole ground created and then you would, you would underneath, underneath that you would then appoint. The niece classification. So say you were, um, doing legal advice, then you would tick off all the boxes beneath the legal advice, um, for, for that classification. And you might not want anything other than legal advice. Right? So it, it very much depends on the business and what they're wanting to do with their trademark. What do big brands I'm gonna use like a, an extreme example here, like a, an international brand, like Coca Cola wouldn't they want multiple types. So they, they would want the logo trademark, and then, you know, the word Mark, and, you know, maybe they have several different ones because they have the shape of the bottle as far as I remember. And then they also have the, the writing, which was originally hundreds. And if I'm not mistaken, Yeah, I think that they, you know, obviously they, they have become so big. They probably started out with just the one and then they have evolved over time and that's, that's how the people do it. They let their thing evolve. Is, do you have any stories or I assume there's the potential conflict? Well, let's use Coca-Cola as another example. Let's say they had just a word Mark 50 years ago and then they, they didn't do one of the other ones. Um, Whether it's the logo. Um, and so their logo and their word marker, obviously very comparable because they're both the name Coca-Cola. Now, if there's a gap in between, when they file a second different type of Mark, is there any possibility what happens if somebody comes in and sneaks in and tries to file? Um, is there the potential that they could be granted that, and then if they were, I assume that'd be. Pretty straight forward that if it went to a legal proceeding, that that would be overthrown. Um, I , that's a really good question. Um, I think, um, because Coca-Cola, is that big? I don't think that they would ever let that, let that happen to be completely honest, but I think that if somebody tried to shoulder their way in that they would get fought off quite. Easily, you know, it wouldn't, it wouldn't even go into a courtroom. I don't think, I think that they would just say, listen, we were here first and, you know, Bobo bugger off or something. I got, you know, I, I, I think that it wouldn't come to any, any legal battle in that case. Um, I don't know if you ever heard of the case of supermax versus McDonald's. Yes. Um, McDonald's um, I'm trying to block shoot max, which is an Irish, um, uh, burger chain. Um, and they will wanting to block a McDonald's was wanting to block supermax from, from expanding into the rest of Europe. They're an Island. Um, and they actually didn't. Provide the correct form of, um, proof of use to the European, um, tribunal. So, um, their Mark fell in 26 countries and was still standing in Sweden because they had a national registration in Sweden, which is why I spoke about the national registration before. Um, so it's really, really important and supermax, well, was it, you know, a tiny compared to two McDonalds. So for them it was a case of David versus Goliath, actually. Um, so, you know, in some cases it can happen that that the tiny one can win against the big one. So, um, Yeah, it can happen. In some cases in your name, they weren't, they weren't using a McDonald's or anything. They would just say calling themselves supermax or supermax. Um, I haven't read up on it lately, so I can't remember, uh, what has happened since there was also a really interesting case in Denmark. Where there was a guy who had this tiny little stand where he did like a hot dogs and he called himself Mac Allen. And that also caused issues with McDonald's. Um, right now I don't recall the outcome of it, but it was a really interesting case as well. Yeah. Yeah. It seems pretty dynamic, especially with the different types and the different marks and the different locations and the different countries and the option of the union. Um, yeah, so I think, yeah, and so it makes sense why somebody like you can come in and kind of clear that up and save them time. If our listeners are interested in finding out more about what you do, can you throw out some contact information or how can we find out more about you. So, first of all, I'm on LinkedIn, which is the easiest place to find me. And then of course, there's my website, which is grand IPR, D K. And even though it's a DK domain, everything on there is written in English. Um, and I can be on Twitter. I can be found on YouTube. I can be found on Vail. Very cool. No, that's great. I appreciate your time and bringing this new topic to our audience. So Celeste, thanks so much for jumping on learning from others. Appreciate your time. Thank you for having me.

Today we have a new episode, join us to know more about Dan, one of the Zcode experts.    1. Hey Dan, it’s an absolute pleasure to have you on our podcast for zCode. we’re thrilled to have you on. I’d like to get a better understanding of your personal background, could you fill us in on where you are from and where did you grew up?    2. I tend to ask people where they’re from and what betting … Read moreThe post Meet Dan, the creator of DFS system, TSS and East Meets West appeared first on NFL Picks | NHL Picks | Hockey Predictions | Winning Sports Picks | MLB Predictions | NBA picks | MLB picks | Soccer Picks.

Rain and Zach start the conversation on activism in relation to Portugal.The Man advocating for indigenous peoples during their concerts and through their foundation. It centers largely on the topic of personal responsibility and especially for those who identify as white, how to ask ourselves what we can do daily to learn more, humble ourselves and be willing to change deep rooted biases in our culture. This episode was captured before the mass protests began, but it’s obvious there was something in the air begging our attention. It’s time for change and LaunchLeft believes “artivists” will be at the frontlines of the new era. Our hats off to PTM for being an example and inspiration- we look forward to speaking to more artists and activists like them who encourage and uplift voices long stifled by ignorance. We close the episode with a short Q&A with Jack Gibson of Tenlons Fort with his song “Hey Dan” the 4th single from the “Launched Artist Digital Singles” on LaunchLeft.

The 2019 Russian AeroFlot flight crashed after a lightning strike...why did this happen? We also talked about Bye Aerospace's E-Flyer electric plane, Coronavirus detection technology from Airbus, and more. Learn more about Weather Guard StrikeTape segmented lightning diverter strips. Follow the show on YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit us on the web. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Episode 9 Full Transcript: Bye Aerospace, Airbus Coronavirus Detection & More Welcome back to the Struck podcast. This is episode nine. Uh, Allen, what's going on? Well, Hey Dan. Well, we're busily working away and coronavirus season, but enough of coronavirus I'm about done talking about that. What's new and what's new in your neck of the woods? Uh, I got these really cool plastic handles that you can put grocery bags on, so it's like a real like handle and then you, it's got these weird, I'm going to, I'm going to hold it up for the camera here. It's on my desk. You slipped into the handles. It's a handle for handles. You put the bags in there, so when you're a city dweller, these things make your, I went to Costco like a month ago. Yeah, and I, and I like really loaded up and I put it all into reusable bags and they were like probably 40 pounds he took, they're very heavy. Whoa. It's not that big a deal except those little like canvas or nylon straps or have those, like, they just like dig into your skin after a while. And so it's like not the weight that's killing you. It's just like that. It just really just digs into your fingers and your Palm. So I got those. That's a cool little piece of a. Ingenious plastic that I got from Amazon. So, so that's news in my life. Real exciting, right? I got some groceries, grocery carriers. Well, I like pretty much all my, uh, daily. I mean, you take it for granted when you've lived in the suburbs your whole life, which I, which I have, which I am excited to be a city dweller. But, uh, and I, and I say the word dweller, somebody sarcastically because he says the word dweller, but, um, it's those little things like when you get all your groceries, sometimes you have to get heavier stuff than normal. And sometimes I'll just be like in a place and I'm like, Oh, I'll just get groceries here. Then I have like a 12 block walk home cause I like walking. But that's kind of a long way to carry something heavy that's like digging into your hands. So he's little creature comfort. So you can have in your backpack or your briefcase or whatever can come in handy. So when you need one of those little, uh, little wagons I've seen where they load groceries in the wagon, they call them buggies. But I'm not on the bus. I'm not on the buggy train because number one, it's big. And I don't want, like, if I'm going to. Take something there. I'd rather carry it home personally cause it's exercise. It's good grip strength. Like it's a, yeah, it's a good, good thing to carry groceries home. But just like those straps in my hands, there's not, not gonna be a pleasant thing for longterm. So plus you can belt, you can ball up like five bags in it, you know, when you like put all your groceries on one hand you do the same thing with those handles and it's super convenient. So . Well, is it something that Jeff Bezos put on your Amazon screen? How does that all work? Make that? I've never seen that before. Obviously. Bayzos knows I am not going to be doing that. I figured they existed, so I kind of searched them online, like grocery bag handles or something like that. Um, yeah, I assumed that, but I did have a, uh, a grocery snafu the other day, so I ordered Instacart from Costco. Yeah. Which, uh. You know, the Instacart's a grocery, grocery delivery service. Yup. Yup. And my first order, which was like two or three weeks ago, went fine without a hitch. They had everything that I asked for or whatever. This time, they're out of a couple of products, which no big deal,

In episode 8 of Uptime, we discussed some local U.S. news - the Trump administration is considering extending deadlines for construction to keep wind energy projects eligible for tax incentives. We discussed the 634m tall Tokyo Skytree and how it changes electrical activity in the atmosphere, as well as new technology from Challenergy who is building Typhoon-Proof wind turbines with a unique design. This episode is brought to you by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard Lightning Tech’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. Have a question we can answer on the Uptime Wind Energy Podcast? Email us!  Show Transcript - Uptime Podcast EP8 Welcome back. This is the uptime podcast. I'm your cohost Dan Blewett. Allen. How are you doing today? Hey Dan, I'm doing well. Boy, it's been crazy up here in Massachusetts. Uh, earlier today we had, it wasn't rain. It wasn't snow. It was like snowing snowballs. I've never seen it before. It was like maybe like a quarter inch wide snowballs. It wasn't hail, but it's light. Uh, it was just the weirdest thing. We've had the weirdest weather. I don't know if it's part of this Corona virus thing. It's making the atmosphere. It's like raining coronavirus like snow meatballs or was like, yeah, it's like raining meatballs, but little white meatballs. It's kind of what it look like. So we're outside. We're start getting pelted by these snowballs from the sky. And it was the most bizarre. You got? I've seen it a long time. I've been in hailstorms, I've been in big hailstorms, I've been in sleet, you name it. But that was the first time I've been in like a snowball storm. So these like, they seem like you, you send me a quick clip of it, but it seemed like they were falling faster. I mean, were they icy? Like did you catch any in your hand? Like what, what, what was the consistency here? They were soft and fluffy, like, like a little meat, like a little soft. So they're just big. They're just big snowflakes. Then. Yeah. Well, no, Nope, Nope. You know what? Snowflake has those crystal line edges, so it has this definitive shape, right? So it looks like it's, it looks like a snowflake, but this has been balled up. So it looked like, yeah. Well, it looked like a snowflake that had kind of melt with other snowflakes, but didn't get hard. Like hail. What are you in a hailstorm like you, Kansas? Those hailstones could be quarter inch, half inch, one inch or larger diameter. Uh, this is even a much smaller and fluffy. Well. Speaking of hail, when you were living in Wichita, did you ever have your car get just like destroyed by hail is damaged by it? Well, everybody in your car, right? Just covered in like little dents. I've just like ruined it. Not little dance. Big dense. They had big Hills. Yeah. Breaking windshield, kind of hailstorms in Kansas. When we knew hailstone for coming, we would everybody scramble and get the heck out of work wherever and get the cars inside. Uh, I've, I've seen cars nearly destroyed and it's sort of a badge of honor a little bit, so people would keep the car. Sometimes the guys where I used to work used to keep the beat up trucks like that to show all the stores that have been through it. It's crazy how big the hailstones can get there because of the way the thunderstorms are huge and it just recycles the ice up and down, up and down. It just gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and the storm that eventually falls out of the sky and hits your car. Oh yeah. It's crazy. Well, you don't, you don't have that kind of where to live there in Maryland, did ya? You're not like that. Uh, I've seen hail a handful of times in my life, I think more in Maryland than I did in, uh, in, in Illinois, my decade in Illinois. But, so I've seen hail a couple of times, but it's been very few and far between. Yeah. Wow. Okay.

This question turned up in my inbox late last week: Hey Dan, I'm being sued. I know you can't give legal advice but I'd like to know if you've ever been in a similar situation, and what did you do? This situation can be extremely stressful so I discuss my experience with being sued in this week's Business Growth Podcast.

Are you FAILING your MBTI Type?! An INFP sent in a question about this topic and I'd like to share my own story that relates to personality psychology (mis)understandings.  There are a lot of extremes when it comes to understanding 16 personalities. If you're an idealist personality type, especially an INFP or ENFP, your environment might be affecting you more than other types, so you may end up not recognizing yourself in most of your personality type descriptions. So are you a true authentic INFP or ENFP or not?! Full question: "Hey Dan, apparently INFPs are optimistic about dreams and love and believe in happy endings, but none of these are true for me. For some reason, as a 16-year-old, I'm too afraid to allow myself to dream about being happy in the future, and I don't really believe in love (for myself) even though I've never been heartbroken before. Does that make me a bit 'less' INFP?" Don’t miss future episodes of this podcast, subscribe here: iTunes | Google Play Music | Stitcher | TuneIn | RSS/XML If you want to follow my travels or catch some shorter videos and updates I share, you can find me on Facebook (DreamsAroundTheWorldHQ) | and as TheDanJohnston on Instagram and Twitter | I publish new videos weekly on YouTube as well.  If you enjoy the podcast and would like to submit your own question for a future episode, you can do so here: www.DreamsAroundTheWorld.com/ask-dan/ And if you haven't already, be sure to check out my free training on turning your personality type into an incredible life, The Life Design Approach. Get it here: www.DreamsAroundTheWorld.com/freetraining/

On this episode of the Healthy, Wealthy and Smart Podcast, I welcome Dan White on the show to discuss evidence-based practice.  Daniel K. White is an assistant professor at the University of Delaware in the Department of Physical Therapy.  Dr. White’s research focuses on physical activity and physical functioning in older adults, people with knee osteoarthritis, and people after Total Joint Replacement.  In this episode, we discuss: -What is implementation science? -Evidence Based Practice and how to use Clinical Practice Guidelines -The latest research findings from the Physical Activity Lab at the University of Delaware -Limitations of physical therapy branding and how we can step into the physical activity space -And so much more!   Resources: Email: dkw@udel.edu Academy of Orthopedic Physical Therapy University of Delaware Physical Activity Lab Published CPGs   For more information on Dan: Dr. Daniel K. White is an assistant professor at the University of Delaware in the Department of Physical Therapy. Dr. White received his Bachelor’s degree in Health Sciences, M.S. in Physical Therapy, and Sc.D. in Rehabilitation Sciences, all from Boston University.  He completed a post-doctoral fellow at the Boston University School of Public Health and earned a Masters in Science in Epidemiology from the BU School of Public Health 2013. Dr. White’s research focuses on physical activity and physical functioning in older adults, people with knee osteoarthritis, and people after Total Joint Replacement.  Dr. White is an Associate Editor for Arthritis Care and Research, and an active member in the American Physical Therapy Association.  His research is funded by the National Institutes of Health, and the Rheumatology Research Foundation.  Dr. White can be reached at dkw@udel.edu Daniel K. White is an assistant professor at the University of Delaware in the Department of Physical Therapy. Dan’s research focuses on physical activity and physical functioning in older adults, people with knee osteoarthritis, and people after joint replacement.  His research uses large existing datasets to answer questions related to physical functioning and physical activity.  As well, he is also conducting clinical trials to lead ways to better promote and increase physical activity in people with knee osteoarthritis and after joint replacement.  Dan is an Associate Editor for Arthritis Care and Research, and an active member in the American Physical Therapy Association, the American College of Rheumatology, and OARSI.    Read the full transcript below: Karen Litzy:                   00:01                Hey Dan, welcome to the podcast. I'm happy to have you on. Dan White:                   00:05                Thanks. Great to be here. Karen Litzy:                   00:07                And now today we're going to be talking amongst other things, implementation science. So before we go any further, can you give a definition of what implementation science is? Dan White:                   00:19                Absolutely. So implementation science, that definition is the scientific study of methods to promote the systematic uptake of research findings and other evidence based practice into routine practice and hence to improve the quality and effectiveness of health services. So essentially it is bridging the gap between science and practice, and it is taking things that we find in laboratories and in clinical studies and literally implementing them into real world, clinics where most physical therapists work. Karen Litzy:                   01:00                Right. So then my other question was why should the average PT care, which I think you just explained that, so we need to care about implementation science because this is how we're getting what researchers do in the lab to our real world situations and our real patients. Dan White:                   01:16                Yeah. I think practicing as a physical therapist, you know, you can look around and a lot of people do a lot of different things and a lot of things seem to work. Snd I think, if we want a game changer in our practice, that is going to come from a systematically studying people and understanding what are the underlying critical ingredients of our practice that really work and the best thing we have made up today to answer that sort of question of, you know, what is it that really works our clinical practice guidelines that is the, essentially the best body of evidence that has been reviewed by a panel and vetted and made to be digested by the everyday clinician. And implementing these clinical practice guidelines are really the key element that is going to lead to a game changing opportunity for us as a profession. Karen Litzy:                   02:34                And when you talk about clinical practice guidelines, I know sometimes people think that you're doing sort of it's cookie cutter and what do I need to follow a cookie cutter recipe for because all of my patients are different. So can you speak to that? Dan White:                   02:52                Yeah, no that is a great point. So on the one hand, there is definitely an art to physical therapy and the clinical practice guidelines and evidence based practice is by no means trying to take that away. It's evidenced based practice in general is not cookbook medicine. It is combining the three things and one is what the evidence says, but two it also combines what the therapist's experiences are and then finally it's what patient's preferences and what their feelings are on the whole thing. And it's a combination of all three. It is literally the definition of evidence based practice and these clinical practice guidelines are definitely consistent with that EBP models. So they are not directions or they're not instructions, they're guidelines. They're ways of helping people make informed decisions. And at a minimum, if you consider yourself an expert clinician and knowing what the clinical practice guidelines are, is a big leg up. And definitely key to helping our profession. It doesn't necessarily mean you ascribe them to every single patient. No, that's not what evidence based practices, but being aware of them is by definition, in my opinion, being a good clinician. Karen Litzy:                   08:02                So can you give us an example of one of these clinical practice guidelines? Dan White:                   08:21                Sure, absolutely. So one of the common patient populations that people treat is low back pain. And Tony Toledo and his colleagues at the University of Pittsburgh and elsewhere developed a clinical practice guidelines for low back pain, and published this and JOSPT in 2012, their paper described that the purposes of these CPGs, our first to what EBP is for a physical therapy practice. And then also to classify and define common musculoskeletal conditions from this classification criteria specific interventions are devised. So for an example, so I don't treat low back pain. This is not my area. So just forgive me for giving a guess here. Dan White:                   09:32                One example, is a lumbosacral segmental somatic dysfunction. And this is associated with the ICF diagnosis of acute low back pain with mobility deficits. And, Tony goes on to saying that there's, certain clinical findings with this, including acute low back pain, a buttock or thigh pain restricted lumbar range of motion and lower back pain and lower extremity related symptoms with provocation. And then from that, there are specific interventions that I'm not going to get into that is unique from a different classification. So a different classification, a low back pain is sub acute, low back pain with mobility deficits, which is basically not acute but subacute patient and the symptoms are produced with ingrained spinal motions and there's a presence of a thoracic lumbar pelvic girdle mobility deficits. Dan White:                   10:41                And then he goes on and there's these different classification criteria from which there are very specific interventions you're supposed to do. So it's classification and then intervention based on that. And essentially, that is in an ideal world of what a CPG should do. However you’re always gonna have the patient that really doesn't fit into one or the other. Let's have somebody who is not quite acute, but they're not quite subacute. So what do you do? And I think being able to first even make that distinction, you have to be aware of the clinical practice guidelines. So knowing that, okay maybe it's going to be a combination of these two interventions because of this person doesn't fit into either one, but see how that approach is already a leg up from not knowing what CPGs are to begin with and what our common classifications is. Does that make sense? Karen Litzy:                   11:38                Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks so much for using that as a really great example for people. And when you're talking about different CPGs, I know that the Academy of Orthopedics, which used to be the orthopedic section of the American physical therapy association, they have all these different names now. It's just made it all so, so much more confusing. But now obviously big proponents of the clinical practice guidelines, but if I wanted to find the average clinician and I want to find some of these guidelines, where do I go? How do I find them? Dan White:                   12:14                Sure. So all the published clinical practice guidelines for orthopedics are on the Academy of Orthopedic Physical Therapy’s main webpage, which is Orthopt.org. There's a banner that says CPGs and you just click on that and you can get right to all the published CPGs. Karen Litzy:                   12:41                Awesome. And we'll have a link to that in the show notes at podcasts.Healthywealthysmart.com under this episode so that if people need it one click and we'll take you right there. So there's no excuse to not know these CPGs after listening to this podcast then because we're going to make it really easy for you. And now you just gave us a good example of how CPGs can work in clinical practice. Are there times where maybe they don't work so well or is there a downside I guess is what I'm trying to say? Dan White:                   13:16                Yeah. I mean, again, going back to your original question of, you know, is this cookie cutter medicine and it's not and again, since EBP is a combination of patient preference, the provider know how, and what the evidence is. I mean, there's going to be situations where, you know, a situation's weighted much more towards a patient's preference. Like they don't want you to do manipulation or maybe they want something specific and you're like, well, that's really not called for in this case. And so you don't do the intervention that's prescribed or that the CPG recommends. And that's okay. We're not here to tell people, to command them what to do. They're coming to us for help. And, patient preference is a large part of evidence based practice. I think that’s the best example I can think of. Karen Litzy:                   14:16                Yeah. And, and I think another, if you're looking at your clinical experience as one of the legs of that stool, if you will, and the patient doesn't have a preference yet, you're sensing as a clinician that there's some trepidation on the patient's part. There's some fear if you were to, like you said, we'll take a manipulation as an example, then using your provider know how you would say, you know, this is not the right time or place for this. And so I think you've got all of that in. So the CPGs is not a cookie cutter oath just because A B C is present you have to do treatment B or treatment a or B. But instead it's giving you a way to maybe differentially diagnose and a way to, you know, be able to maybe give your patient an explanation as to what's going on and then use your judgment, use the patient preference and the evidence to then guide your treatment. Dan White:                   15:21                Yeah, exactly. It's just like, you know, when you just meet somebody, you try to figure out who they are, right. And you try to figure out what kind of personality they are. And there's some sort of structure or rubric people use. Like let's say there's introverts and extroverts, is this person an introvert or extrovert in the CPG the first thing that it does is provide you a framework of saying, well, what kind of types of people are there with this type of pathology? How are they a type of person that has, I don't know, this type of this type of disorder or this type or another type of disorder. And from that diagnosis of providing a classification, you can, there are clear treatments associated, with that so back to the party analogy, you know, if you're dealing with an introvert, you know, you, you know that they're not going to be super bubbly and all over. Dan White:                   16:10                You have to kind of bring things out of them and maybe take it easy and you know, take it on the slow road. Versus if someone's an extrovert, maybe are going to be doing all the talking. And, you can just be an active listener and be very interested in what they're saying, because they're the extrovert and perhaps, you know, that that's Kinda how it goes. And the CPGs is essentially just it is in the party analogy, a way of just navigating through our clinical practice, to provide best care. And, you know, I think another, medical example that really, stays fresh in my mind is a sort of lifesaving approaches to acute MIs. And, it wasn't the sort of protocol for or clinical practice guidelines for myocardial infarction, weren't developed, when necessarily, right after science discovered that, you know, look, if you do x, Y and z can actually save someone's life. Dan White:                   17:20                It kinda came much, much later. And it wasn't until, the university hospital in Chicago, implemented these sort of CPGs for lifesaving approaches to MI that the death rate for acute MI’s went way down. And all the medical residents followed, this CPG for treating acute MIs. And, that systematic approach is what made care better. Obviously in physical therapy we're not talking about life or death, but these CPGs have been vetted and are an approach that is systematically used, will produce a better outcomes. So yes, it's, you know, EBP, I'm not changing my story here. EBP is obviously patient preference, provider experience as well as the evidence, but when applied systematically, which means you'd be at minimum aware of what the CPGs are, they should produce better outcomes system wide. Karen Litzy:                   18:27                Yeah. And thank you. I love the party analogy and comparing it to that medical example really kind of makes the CPGs a little bit clearer and hopefully people will now not look at them as some sort of cookie cutter program, but instead, as a way to help inform you of your practice, which I think is, yeah, I think it's great. And now, all right, so let's move on from CPGs. Let's talk about, I'm kind of interested in what you're doing next. So you are the director of the physical activity lab at the University of Delaware. So let us in on some of the things that you guys are working on. If you can, you know, I understand you can't say everything, but what are some things that you're working on that you feel like will be part of future implementation science for the average physical therapists treating patients like myself? Dan White:                   19:23                Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. You know my whole goal is just to get patients better. And, I worked in inpatient, acute, acute Rehab for several years. And I always wondered, you know, after I got people independent with bed mobility, transfers and ambulation, you know, would they actually take those, you know, new found independence, and actually resume their daily activities and be active in the home. And that led me to really thinking a lot about this notion of physical activity or, you know, how much do people do. And so, in the area I study, it's osteoarthritis and osteoarthritis is a serious disease that is associated with higher rates of mortality. Dan White:                   20:21                And only definitive treatment for osteoarthritis is a total knee replacement. Now, after total knee replacement, people do great with improving their pain, and increasing their function. But there's many systematic studies that show in terms of physical activity, people aren't doing more, they're doing just as little as they did before. And I think that's a real missed opportunity for physical therapists. And I think there's a great opportunity to talk about, you know, being more active and helping patients and it really doesn't take that much. It's just a, hey, so, you know, how much are you doing every day? With smart phones and the use of fitbits, counting steps per day is actually an  incredibly effective, a way to increase or one to see where people are at in terms of physical activity and to increase how much activity people are doing. Dan White:                   21:19                So just like if you're trying to, you know, lose weight, you usually have a scale and you want to see how much you know, where you're at and what progress you've made. Using a pedometer or using a fitbit monitor to count your steps is an analogy and analogous way of doing the exact same thing. So at the University of Delaware, we are studying what are the best ways, physical therapists and practical ways physical therapists can increase activity in people with knee replacement. And what we've done is we recently published a study that basically found that, it's very feasible to talk about physical activity and do a really quick intervention for people after knee replacement by simply giving them a fitbit monitor. And seeing how many steps per day they're walking, and then increasing that number of steps today. Dan White:                   22:19                Our target goal of 6,000 steps per day in a study we did several years ago, we found people with knee osteoarthritis who want at least 6,000 steps per day we're much less likely to develop financial limitation than people who walked less than 6,000. So that's where we use the 6,000 steps per day. That's where we have the goal set up. And, since there is a health outcome associated with 6,000 steps that's our goal. And we see where people are walking and then we start to increase their steps by five to 10% per week. So if you're walking 2000 steps, we increase it by 100 to 200 steps per day more. Dan White:                   23:25                And then the next week we see where they're at and we increase it again by another five to 10%. And what we found, doing this intervention and physical therapy is that a one year after discharge from physical therapy. So they've had no physical therapy and no intervention. People pretty much maintain the gains they made in physical activity and their gains are pretty substantial. There was a high percentage of people that met the 6,000 steps per day goal, and maintain that one year out in a preliminary study. And we are currently collecting more data to look at a larger sample to have a little more robust results. In talking with the theme of Implementation Science, what our next step is to do is to implement this intervention in real world physical therapy clinics. Dan White:                   24:24                We recognize, you know, at the University of Delaware, we have a fantastic physical therapy clinic. But you know, our clinicians, and the type of people, patients that come here don't represent a cross section of the entire country. We want to see whether this intervention will work in real world clinics. And we've partnered, with a clinic in Lancaster, PA called hearts physical therapy. And we're looking at developing a implementation of our intervention at that clinic, to see, you know, what's the uptake with clinicians, what are the barriers, what are the uptake with patients, where the barriers and how can we make this evidence based practice approach actually work. Karen Litzy:                   25:13                Yeah. And you know, as you're saying that I'm thinking, well, hmm, does it matter like these people know that they're in a study. So is that their incentive to, you know, continue on with getting these 6,000 plus steps in a day because you know, we all want to show the teacher that we're good at what we do. Yeah. Right. And then the question is that enough? Like you said, you followed them for a year to really make that a lifestyle change and maybe after a year it is. Dan White:                   25:43                Yup. No, those are good questions. So in terms of sort of in terms of like a Hawthorne effect or where you were, you know, you're just doing this because you know you're in this study. First we do have a control group that wears the Monitor. And they did not have the intervention, but we are monitoring their physical activity and know it and the intervention group, in our previously published study, in arthritis care and research, that the intervention group still is walking almost double of what the control group does a one year out. So that's, you know, that's notable. Karen Litzy:                   26:36                Oh, one year is a long time and at that point, do you feel like it has shifted to a lifestyle change? Dan White:                   26:47                Yes and that's the encouraging part. Like one year out that's a pretty good outcome, for not having any contact with, you know, well not having your original physical therapy for you. And, that's incredibly encouraging for a longterm outcome and actually thinking that there might be large behavioral change. Another interesting thing with our preliminary studies that we looked at adherence or the fidelity of a treatment in the physical therapy clinic. And what that means is how often did physical therapists tell the patient about, you know, ask them about their step goals and ask them about you know, how they're doing. And it actually wasn't that great. It was around 50%. So, it wasn't that this intervention was, you know, so well taken, in my mind, it was more that the patients really grabbed onto this and saw that, you know, look, this monitor tells me exactly where I'm at. And in qualitative studies we've done, or interviews we've done after the intervention, the patients, by and large, they say, look, I know where I'm at, that this monitor tells me, and I know when I have a good day and I know I have a bad day and what I need to do to make a difference between the two. Karen Litzy:                   28:05                That's great. And if you can get that from the monitor or the fitbit or the pedometer or whatever it is that you're using, then I think that's a huge win, not just for mobility, which obviously we know we need as we get older and especially after knee replacements, but for a whole host of other health reasons as well. Dan White:                   28:27                Yup. Yup. Exactly that. I was just lecturing yesterday to newly-minted rheumatology fellows at u Penn in Philly. And talking about physical activity first, it was interesting to know that none of them knew what the physical activity guidelines are, which maybe, you know, most people don't know what they are, but it's a 150 minutes of moderate intensity activity per week or 75 minutes a week of vigorous intensity. And the reason why these guidelines are so important is that the benefits of health of being physically active are far reaching. They range from not only improved strength and flexibility, but you also have cardiovascular benefits. You have a mental health benefits. There's less the chance of depression, there's less chance of weight gain. Dan White:                   29:28                There are a lot of far reaching effects even so that the American College of Sports Medicine Jokes that if you could put the benefits of exercise into a pill, you'd have a blockbuster pill. I mean, it’s definitely a huge benefit to be active. And then the second thing is that, you know, for physical therapists, you know, is that something we should address? I mean, that could be something that, yes, typically, yeah. Typically therapists you think with a patient comes in, you know, they have their complaints and, you know, let's talk about, you know, reducing your pain and increasing your range and then getting you back to, you know, where you were at. But our recently published study in physical therapy actually surveyed patients and said, you know, what do you feel physical therapists should talk about? Dan White:                   30:24                And they were asked a range of things including weight and Diet and physical activity. And by and large, it was 90 plus percent of patients said, I want my physical therapist to talk about this collectivity. That is what they're there for. You know, that that is a major reason I am here and I want them to ask me about it and to counsel me on it. So I think that's something we should, you know, to embrace and understand, you know, what our guidelines are this 150 minutes a week, understand that. And understand, you know, what our steps per day, what are sort of major benchmarks for steps today. You know, we oftentimes say 10,000, but you know, we found earlier that 6,000 for people, you know, osteoarthritis is a meaningful benchmark. Dan White:                   31:15                And then, the last thing I'll say about the physical activity thing is that, American College of sports medicine and the physical activity guidelines from the Department of Health and Human Services, you know, their major recommendation and before the timeline is that it's the saying that some is good but more, it's better that there is a dose response relationship between how much activity people do and their health benefits. So even getting somebody who is completely sedentary to doing at least walking for five to 10 minutes a day, can have a huge change in their health outlook and risk for future poor health outcomes. So, that is a major thing that, you know, PTs need to keep in mind is if I can get this person who I know is sedentary just to do something in adopt that I think is huge win for this patient. Karen Litzy:                   32:12                Yeah. And, I think that the physical therapy profession needs to really step up and be the people to step into this space. I mean, this is what we do. This is our space. You know, we should be grabbing those patients who maybe have knee OA, but don't need a knee replacement yet. We should be stepping in. That's our jobs. That's what we should be doing. We should be working with obese or sedentary people of any age before they have to come and see us for an injury. Dan White:                   32:46                Yup. Yup. Exactly. My doctoral student Meredith Christianson who worked with Gillian Hawker at the University of Toronto to do this qualitative study on primary care physicians. And essentially the question was why don't primary care physicians recommend exercise and physical activity to patients with knee osteoarthritis. Although despite the fact that every single clinical practice guideline recommends, you know, exercise by and large, the primary care physicians or that we're saying, well, we don't know what to recommend. We're not the experts. And, they would like to refer their patients to PT, but it's not reimbursed up in Canada. So, you know, I think this further underscores the notion that as physical therapists, we should own the physical activity sphere. We should be the ones that people think of, like, you know, well, I want to be active but I have some problems. What do I do? Go see a physical therapist. You are highly educated individuals who know more about biomechanics, more about kinesiology than anybody else in the clinical sphere. And we are the best place to make exercise and physical activity recommendations to people of all types, more so than any other health provider. Karen Litzy:                   34:13                Yes. I couldn't agree more. I could not agree more with that. And, in my opinion, and my hope is that physical therapy really starts to move toward that in the very, very near future because boy could we make a big impact in the lives of people around the world if we're that sort of first line of defense, if you will. And isn't it amazing that like, I love that you brought up this not covered by insurance, but people will go and pay for a trainer or a massage therapist, not knocking any of those professions at all because I think they're all very valuable. But people will pay for that and not say, well, can you turn it into my insurance? And then when it comes to physical therapy where, you know we know all this stuff, we have the guidelines, we have the clinical prediction rules. We have the education and it's just not something that people are willing to put money down for. Dan White:                   35:27                Yeah, I think there's two things. One I think people will pay if they see value in it. And yes, I think that it's not that we don't have value, but I don't think we're marketing ourselves well as specifically to the larger community. Going back to the implementation science, Workshop Implementation Science Conference and workshop in Providence, Rhode Island this past march and the president of the APTA came and spoke there and he said that, you know, for us as physical therapists, we're really lacking in the sales and marketing sphere. And one of the reasons why is because, well, one of the things is we all call ourselves physical therapists. But what that means is very different depending on where you work. Dan White:                   36:33                So for instance, you know, a patient is going to have an eye, a view of what a physical therapist is. In this context. So if they see a physical therapist working in a school, well they'll think all PTs work in a school, and in acute care after a major MI then they think they only worked at acute care, but you know, marketing that we actually are versed in many areas is a challenge we have. And I don't know if that means we start to call ourselves a sports specialist or you know, cardiac specialists or what, but, you know, something along the lines of marketing our idea or marketing our expertise better is a key area of need. And then the second thing is, you know, I think it's okay to ask people to pay for things. Dan White:                   37:24                In knee osteoarthritis as people will pay five to $10,000 for stem cells or PRP injections, and, you know, the evidence behind that is, well, let's say it politely, much lower than what the evidence is for exercise is. And, it's just incredible that, you know, if someone's gonna lay down that sort of cash, you know, I think there is a definite market out there for services that are viewed as valuable and having a physical activity or exercise prescription that's tailored to, you know, individual needs, you know, is a clear area of opportunity for our profession, for people with chronic diseases. And, you know, I think a space that we should definitely pick up. Karen Litzy:                   38:16                Yeah, there's no question I could not have said it better myself. And I think I'm going to make nice quote on that because you're absolutely right. And now before we wrap things up here, it's the same question I ask everyone, and that is knowing where you are now in your life and in your career, what advice would you give to yourself fresh out of school? Dan White:                   38:54                Yeah, that's a good question. The advice I'd give myself is, just do your best to make your patients better. I think that's all it is. And you know, at the University of Delaware, we have people here that work in very different outputs. So we have our clinical faculty that are working, doing a bulk of the teaching for the students. And then we have research faculty or tenure track that teach the PT students, but all have our own research lines. And then we have clinicians that are working in the clinic so very different outputs. But our goal is all unified and that is just to help patients get better. That, you know, and from the clinical side, we are focused on excellence in research or excellence in teaching students the best and latest up to date things and the most effective ways to teaching them. Dan White:                   40:05                So they remember not only to pass the test, but to have successful careers. And then from a research perspective, we're trying to look for, you know, what are game changing discoveries to help treat people and help them get better. And then the clinicians are implementing that on a daily basis at the University of Delaware. And you know, again, what makes us, I think, what I think of as a prideful point is that we're all aligned in our goals with trying to get people better. And so that's something that I guess, you know, I've always ascribed to as both a therapist, as a doctoral student and now as a clinical scientist is trying to, you know, my major goal is just to help people get better. Karen Litzy:                   40:54                That's a wonderful answer. Thank you so much. And where can people get in touch with you if they have questions? Dan White:                   40:59                My email address is dkw@udel.edu. Feel free to email me anytime. Karen Litzy:                   41:16                Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Thanks for breaking down the clinical practice guidelines and implementation science, and I love the stuff you're doing in your lab, so thanks for sharing. Dan White:                   41:25                Great. Thanks so much for having me Karen Litzy:                   41:27                And everyone else, thanks so much for tuning in. Have a great couple of days and stay healthy, wealthy, and smart.   Thanks for listening and subscribing to the podcast! Make sure to connect with me on twitter, instagram  and facebook to stay updated on all of the latest!  Show your support for the show by leaving a rating and review on iTunes!

Why do marketers routinely ignore one big thing that can make or break their marketing strategy? This week on The Inbound Success Podcast, Dan Gingiss talks about why customer experience trumps marketing every time - and how you as a marketer can create viral customer experiences. Dan is an author, podcaster, keynote speaker, and noted customer experience expert who has headed up social media and customer experience for a slew of Fortune 500 companies. He has made it his business to curate examples of the best and worst customer experiences and distill the lessons learned into actionable strategies for companies looking to take their game to the next level. In this week's episode, Dan shares both why customer experience is so important as well as how marketers can develop a customer experience strategy, including actionable tips on things like writing marketing copy and getting more in touch with what your customers actually want and need. This week's episode of The Inbound Success Podcast is brought to you by our sponsor, IMPACT Live,  the most immersive and high energy learning experience for marketers and business leaders. IMPACT Live takes place August 6-7, 2019 in Hartford Connecticut and is headlined by Marcus Sheridan along with special guests including world-renowned Facebook marketing expert Mari Smith and Drift CEO and Co-Founder David Cancel. Inbound Success Podcast listeners can save 10% off the price of tickets with the code "SUCCESS".  Click here to learn more or purchase tickets for IMPACT Live Some highlights from my conversation with Dan include: If you don't have a great product or service, then really no amount of marketing is going to work in the long run. It might get people to buy your product to service, but then they're going to be dissatisfied with it, and they're going to return it, or they're going to tell their friends that it's terrible, or what have you. Today there's no longer such a thing as an offline experience. Any experience - good or bad - throughout any stage of the customer journey, has a strong likelihood of being shared online. 30% of consumers say after a negative experience, that they would post a negative review online, or on social media. But, almost 50% of consumers say the same thing about a positive experience. Being responsive on social media is so critical, especially to the people that are complaining because you have an opportunity to make things right. People who complain, complain because they care. The ones who don't care have already left for your competition. They've already switched providers, and they don't care whether you fix it or not. The best place to start when building a great customer experience is with language. So many companies are using language that frankly, most consumers either don't understand, or can't connect with. One way to do this is by writing marketing copy that is witty (this is not the same as being humorous, which may or may not resonate with your audience). If you struggle to be witty, the easiest way to start is to eliminate jargon and technical terminology from your copy, and then to read what you write back to yourself and ask yourself, "does this sound like something I would say in conversation?" The best way to identify opportunities to create shareable customer experiences is to actually be a customer of your own product. Resources from this episode: Save 10% off the price of tickets to IMPACT Live with promo code "SUCCESS" Visit Dan's website Read Dan's column on Forbes Connect with Dan on LinkedIn Follow Dan on Twitter Listen to the Experience This! podcast with Dan Gingiss and Joey Coleman Listen to the podcast to learn how to build a best-in-class customer experience strategy and hear specific examples of other companies that are already doing it. Transcript Kathleen Booth (Host): Welcome back to the Inbound Success Podcast. I'm Kathleen Booth, and I am your host. This week my guest is Dan Gingiss, who is the Chief Experience Officer at Winning Customer Experience. Welcome Dan. Dan: Well thank you Kathleen, a pleasure to be here with you. I'm excited about the conversation. Dan and Kathleen are all smiles while recording this episode Kathleen: I am too. You have such a fascinating background to me. About Dan Gingiss Kathleen: I'm going to just toot your horn for a second, and then I'm going to let you tell my listeners really who you are. But, when I thought about introducing you it was actually kind of a challenge because most people I just introduce with their name and their title, but you are like a customer experience expert, a keynote speaker, author, podcast host, your professional background is fascinating. You've been in senior marketing, end customer experience positions at places like McDonald's Humana, Discover. I mean, I feel like if I was to do a thorough introduction of you it might take 10 minutes. Instead of me rattling on for 10 minutes, can you just give my audience a little synopsis of kind of who you are, and what you're doing today, and also how you got there? Dan: Sure. Well, I should bring you along on the road with me, because that was a fine introduction. I'll take that anytime I get a- Kathleen: My fee is very reasonable. Dan: ... Well, I describe myself as a 20 year marketer. Marketing is at my heart, it's my background. But, some time along the way I really got passionate about customer experience, and part of it is that I realized the customer experience and marketing go hand in hand. I think that the catalyst was when I first got into social media. I had done, in my career, pretty much every offline marketing channel you can think of. I've done direct mail, and I've done newspapers and magazine ads, and package inserts, and all these things. Then, I had started going through all the digital channels. I'd done email, and website marketing, et cetera. When I finally got into social media I realized that, that was the first marketing channel where people can talk back and I thought that was fascinating. That just immediately struck me as, "Wow, this is going to be something different." If you go back to the early days of social media, you see a lot of companies treating it like another broadcast channel. "Hey, I have a great idea. Let's put our TV commercial on Facebook, people will love that." Right? Shockingly, people didn't love that very much, and so the companies that started figuring out that customers talking back was a good thing, that this was an opportunity to get closer with the customer, and to learn more about them, I think became better marketers in the process. Historically we've used voice of the customer, focus groups, and other listening devices to formulate our marketing, to figure out what it is that people want to hear. But, social put it all in front of us, in an easy, analyzable way because it's all in print. And really, I think, just presented such new opportunity to get close to the customer. That fascinated me, and I kind of made a pivot over to customer experience. It helped that the role I was in at the time at Discover, that I was in charge of the website and digital experience, so I was getting into the nitty gritty about how to create experiences that therefore became marketable. And, I started at the same time, with sort of a side hustle of blogging, and podcasting. I eventually wrote a book about social customer care. It was only recently, really 2019, when I decided that the side hustle was killing me because it was taking up so much time on top of a full-time job, but it was the thing that I really loved doing. I decided to finally go out on my own. The feedback I got on LinkedIn, most people said, "It's about time. Can't believe it took you this long." Now I am speaking, and consulting on marketing a customer experience, and I love it. What I'm telling people is, it's a lot more fun working for the Dan, than it was working for the man. Why More Marketers Don't Focus on Customer Experience Kathleen: That's a great line. I am going to quote that. I have so many questions for you, but I want to start with one in particular because this came up once before on this podcast, and it's something I think a lot about which is, to what degree do you think organizationally we undermine ourselves as businesses by setting the goals, or the KPI's, or the yard stick for success for marketing, and have it be so focused on that top of the funnel, that traffic generation, that lead generation? I mean, most of the marketers I see, at least on paper, are measured by the degree to which they can generate qualified leads for the company. There's no incentive system in place in 99% of the cases that I'm aware of, to do anything on the customer end. I feel like there's a structural problem that prevents us from tackling this topic, and I'm so curious to know what you think about that, and if you see that as well? Dan: Yeah, I definitely agree. It's almost like we're putting the cart before the horse, right? If you don't have a great product or service, then really no amount of marketing is going to work in the long run. It might get people to buy your product to service, but then they're going to be dissatisfied with it, and they're going to return it, or they're going to tell their friends that it's terrible, or what have you. You can put tons and tons of marketing dollars behind it, but you have to have that basic, you know, you have to fulfill the basic need of a product or service that people want and are going to enjoy. I think also, you have to have a customer experience that people also want and enjoy. That's the added piece that now today's customer, today's "I have a voice" customer, and today's powerful customer is demanding that they have a great experience as well. You can't just have one without the other. I did an interview with a great guy in my old podcast, this is now a couple of years ago. He runs a series of brewhouses called Scotty's Brewhouse. It's in Indiana, Florida, a couple other states. And, very successful business, his name's Scott Wise. I asked him ... or, he said to me unsolicited, he said, "When people ask me what business I'm in, I tell them I'm in the customer service business." I'm like, "Really? You're a restaurateur, that's an interesting answer." He said, "Dan, I could have the best food in the world at my restaurants, but if I have crappy service I have no customers. No one will come back. If I have good or great food, but amazing service, I'll have a full restaurant every night." He said, "You can't have one without the other, it doesn't work. If I had to choose either one, I would choose a great experience, because if I mess up on somebody's burger but I'm really nice about it and I take care of them, they're still going to come back, right? But, if I have servers that are rude, or slow or whatever, I'm going to lose customers." I think you're right, that we're so focused on that front end. You've read, probably the same stats that I have, about how much money we spend on customer acquisition versus on customer retention, right? Or even just customer engagement. I think that, that ... that, the smart companies are starting to figure out that some of that money should be shifted. Because after all, if we keep more customers then we don't have to be as stressed about bringing on more new ones. Kathleen: It's really interesting to hear you talk about the Scotty's Brewhouse example, I hope I got the name correct. Dan: Yep. Kathleen: Because, it in my head, the echo that I hear when I hear you tell that story is Marcus Sheridan, who I work with at IMPACT. He always says that, "It doesn't matter what company you are, we're all in the same business which is the business of trust." It really doesn't matter what your product is, or your service is. If your customer doesn't trust you, that's like table stakes. The company's with the most trust are the ones that are going to win, and it's almost like customer experience and trust go hand in hand because it's true. These are the universal things that, regardless of what kind of a business we have, what it is we're selling, our fundamental truths about the way people want to spend their money. They want to be able to trust you, they want to have a great experience, and oh by the way, those two things are never ever going to change. They're never going to go out of style, there's no digital trend that's going to make them obsolete. I love that. Dan: Exactly. I'm an unabashed Marcus Sheridan fan. I'm a fan boy. I love Marcus, I love everything he talks about, and he is one of the best speakers I've ever seen. But, you know, what you just said reminds me actually of a story I have not told to other people before. This is a first- Kathleen: Ooh, breaking news. Dan: ... If I could get a drum roll here, yeah. My dad ran a family business for over 20 years. He was in the formal wear business. Those in the United States may recognize Gingiss Formalwear. It's been around for ... it was around for a long time, it's been gone now for a couple of decades. He always used to tell me the same thing that, it doesn't matter what product you're selling. He said, "I never grew up dreaming of selling or renting tuxedos." Right? Kathleen: Yeah. Dan: Because, nobody does, right? But at the same time, if you think about how critical that service was at a point in people's lives, right? They're getting married, they're going to prom, they're having a moment that cannot be ruined. They're placing all their trust- Kathleen: Yeah. Dan: ... In the company to get everything right. Yeah, I would say absolutely, he was in a business of trust too. This is back in the 80's, in a completely undigital way. One of the things that I also love about what you said is, I believe today that there's no longer such a thing as an offline experience. Now, back in the 80's it was all offline. Today, it sometimes feels like we have offline and online. But, all you have to do is look at the video of a guy being dragged off an airplane to realize that any experience can come online now. When we talk about trust, it's about not just that online experience but also what's happening throughout the customer journey because when you anger, or disappoint, or miss the expectations of a customer, they just have to pull out their phone and take a picture of it, or take a video of it, and share it. Now, you're dealing with many other people who are disappointed. Kathleen: Yeah. Not only can those quote/unquote, "Offline," experiences go online but, the worse or the better they are, the more likely they are to go online. Dan: Absolutely. Kathleen: You don't hear about the "meh" experiences, you hear about the really terrible ones, and the really great ones. Yeah, I mean it's fascinating to me just, I mean you hear a lot about the really terrible ones. People are really incentivized to post when something doesn't go right. It should serve as a really good incentive to make that experience great, because that's your one chance to control that conversation that you mentioned earlier. Dan: For sure. I just want to say because I talk about this a lot when I'm on stage is that, people ... you're absolutely right that people are willing to share both the positive and the negative. One of the things that I try to teach companies is how to create more positive experiences so that you can tilt that sentiment. I came across a great statistic recently that I love from Sitel Group. This was out of their 2018 CEX Index. What they found was that 30% of consumers say after a negative experience, that they would post a negative review online, or on social media. But, almost 50% of consumers say the same thing about a positive experience. Kathleen: Hmm. Dan: Which, means that people are more willing to share positive experiences than negative ones. The problem is, as I'm sure you know as a consumer as well, we don't have very many positive ones. Kathleen: Yeah. Dan: We don't have enough that are so ... On our podcast we like to call them "remarkable experiences," literally worthy of remark. If you think back to the last time that you had an experience with a brand that was so great that you wanted to tell all your friends about it, it just doesn't happen very often. But, if you think back to the last time a brand disappointed you, you could probably come up with something that was more recent. What I love to think about is how as brands, can we create more and more positive experiences to get people talking since they want to talk about, we just have to give them something to talk about. A Real World Example of How Great Customer Experiences Can Make a Lasting Impression Kathleen: Oh, I could agree more. I feel like sometimes the negative and the positive come hand in hand. I think I mentioned to you when we first spoke, I had, when we were talking about great customer experiences. I had one, this was years ago now, but it will always stand out in my memory. Actually it's funny, I've had two from the same company. I'm going to give them a shoutout right now. Both are from UPS. The first was when I used to own an agency, we had a daily UPS pickup that was the lifeline of our business because in addition to marketing services, we sold branded products, swag. We had to ship things, and hit deadlines for clients. So, UPS coming every afternoon was essential, we counted on it. I remember we had a big shipment going out one day and they didn't come, and we called our UPS business rep and he was like, "Oh, it looks like there were some issue in your billing, and so we froze the account." We were like, "Well first of all, wouldn't you call when that happens and not just not show up?" I remember it was a Friday too, so we were like, "Oh my God, this has to get resolved now because we're going to lose two days over the weekend." Long story short, the business rep couldn't solve it. He didn't have enough juice. They were like, "Oh, we'll fix it but it will take 48 hours to reset in the system, and then the truck will start to come back." We were like, "Mm-mm (negative)." I remember I went on Twitter and I tweeted something about how grumpy I was about this, and I got a call ... or, I got a DM first from UPS corporate. They said, "DM us your phone number." I did that. Within 15 minutes I had the head of UPS's social media on the line and he was like, "I'm going to fix this for you now," and within an hour everything was fixed. It went from being a really horrible experience to being an amazing one, which I was happy to sing to the world about. Then funny enough a few years later, we sponsor Midshipmen, so I live near the Naval academy in Annapolis Maryland. We have Midshipmen who come to our house on the weekends and things, they become part of your family. Two of our Mids -- a guy and a girl that had been dating for ages, and we knew he was going to propose to her on this two day visit to Annapolis before they got deployed to Afghanistan -- they were in our house, and I was in on it, on the whole plan. He had it all mapped out, and the ring was like out for delivery, and wasn't coming in time. We had a great relationship with our UPS driver and so my husband called him on his cellphone and was like, "Here's what's happening." The ring was being delivered by somebody else, but our driver went out of his way to go find the other driver, get the ring, deliver it to our house so that he could propose in time before they had to deploy. Kathleen: I mean- Dan: That's amazing. Kathleen: ... Talk about just unbelievable stories, both from the same company funny enough. But, the first one really made me think like, just how often sometimes those incredible experiences can come out of what might have been a really terrible one. Why Negative Reviews and Complaints Are Actually a Good Thing Dan: I love that, and I mean I don't know if you were intentionally teeing me up here, but that's basically what my book is about, right? Is that- Kathleen: Yep. Dan: ... Being responsive on social media is so critical, especially to the people that are complaining because you have an opportunity to make things right. Click to tweet I always say that people who complain, complain because they care. The ones who don't care have already left for your competition. They've already switched providers, and they don't care whether you fix it or not. But, people who have a legitimate complaint, I'm not talking about trolls here who are swearing. Kathleen: Yeah, or like looking for a free gift certificate to a restaurant. Dan: Yeah. I mean, people that have a legitimate complaint want you to fix it, that's why they're letting you know. They care enough to let you know, and I think that certainly when we started off, companies were afraid of complaints, which I thought was a big mistake because complaints also give you great insight into what you're not doing right, into where you're missing customer expectations. You might think that some piece of your experience is working just swimmingly, but you’re not sure your customers think that and here they are giving you this free feedback. To me, that's incredibly valuable. Yeah, tons of stories of companies that have started off with an angry customer, and turned them into an advocate. I've had it happen at all three of the Fortune 300 companies I worked for, and it's always nice to see because it kind of proves the value of being there for your customer through thick and thin. Kathleen: Yeah, and I know I've read over the years a couple of different times that there was data to support this. You can probably even cite the stat, if I had to guess. But, I've read that like companies that have no bad reviews are, people don't perceive as being as trustworthy as companies that have some bad reviews. I think it had to do with Yelp or something, and that the relationship capital you build by having a problem and then solving it well, is so much greater than the relationship capital that you build by never having problems in the first place. Which, is counterintuitive, but- Dan: For sure. It's for sure. I was thrilled when I got my first three star review on my book on Amazon, because they had all been five until then. It's not believable, right? Kathleen: ... Yeah. Dan: There's no perfect product. The person that gave me a three star review gave me, I thought very valuable feedback about what he liked and didn't like about the book. I of course responded on Amazon, because I practice what I preach. Yeah, that to me, that adds so much credibility. Then also, I wasn't offended, right? I mean, if my book didn't land perfectly for him, I'm sorry about that but I also very much value the feedback of why it didn't. Because, then when I write my next book I'll be thinking about that, right? Kathleen: Yeah. Dan: I think that as companies are ... it's almost like you have to put the ego aside a little bit to be willing to hear what can be tough feedback. It's just like in the business world when we have our year end review with our boss, right? A year end review that says, "Hey Kathleen, you're the best, you're awesome, you're terrific, keep doing what you're doing. Here's a two percent raise," doesn't give you much, right? Because, you don't know, there's nothing for you to go, there's no action items. But, a review that says, "Here's three things you're doing really well Kathleen, and here's three things I want you to work on in the next year," is so much more valuable because how often do you get that feedback from somebody? Where somebody's willing to be honest with you and say, "You know Kathleen, if you could just work on these three things, I think your career could go so much higher." I mean to me, that kind of feedback is a gift, and it's in a gift in the corporate world as well because sometimes we can't see through our own rose colored glasses, right? We all think our own product, and service, and experience is fantastic, and it's very difficult to see otherwise especially because you get things like ... I remember when I first joined Discover, I had the option of getting an employee credit card. I intentionally did not choose that option, because I didn't want to be treated like an employee when I called customer service. I wanted to be treated like a regular customer. Because, I mean imagine when the CEO of Discover calls customer service -- they probably roll out the red carpet for him, right? He's not getting a legit experience, and I really wanted that, to see it from the customer's perspective which I thought was so much more valuable. Kathleen: Well, I couldn't agree with you more about your point about feedback. I always think you need to be suspicious of the people that never have anything constructive, or even negative to say. You don't want to, in life or in business, surround yourself only with a bunch of yes men. It's not healthy, and it's not real. I really appreciate you adding that to the discussion, because it is so important. Building a Customer Experience Strategy: Where To Begin Kathleen: We talked a little bit about the why, this is so critical. The audience listening to this podcast is usually marketers. Can you talk a little bit about from a marketing standpoint, if somebody hasn't really considered customer experience as part of their strategy, where do they start? How do you define that? Is that just managing the conversation on social, or is it more wholistic? What are the elements to taking a marketing approach to customer experience? Dan: Yeah, I mean I think that it's a couple of things. First of all, as consumers we often don't like being marketed to. Let's start there, and be honest with ourselves, right? Is that, when we're scrolling through our Facebook feed, we're not excited when an ad pops up. No matter really who it's from, occasionally maybe it's from a Starbucks, or a Coke-A-Cola, or some brand that we really, really love, we're okay with it. But, for the most part, it's interruptive. If you start, and this is where I'm going back to what I said about sort of putting your ego aside. When I ran Discover's website I used to remind my team, "Look, nobody wakes up in the morning wanting to go to a credit card rep website. Zero people do that, right? So we've got to make that experience as quick, and painless, and easy as possible." I think with marketing it's the same thing. You have to understand where you fit into the world of your customer. Now, how can you make your marketing an experience? Which, is one of the things that I really love. I would suggest the place to start is with language. I think that so many companies are using language that frankly, most consumers either don't understand, or can't connect with. There was a recent study done by a company called Visible Thread that looked at the top 50 banks in the US, and actually scored their marketing on a readability score. Kathleen: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Dan: They calibrate the readability score based on famous books. They looked at everything from Moby Dick, which is a very hard to read book, to Harry Potter, which is a pretty easy to read book. Then they ranked banks marketing on this same score. What they found is that what you want on this 100 point scale is, you want to hit at least 50 which is an eighth grade reading level, which is basically the average reading level of the American consumer. You want to hit a 50. The top 10 banks in the US hit something like a 51, and everybody else was far below that which means that they're speaking in a language that literally their customers don't understand and can't comprehend. I saw the same thing in the healthcare industry. There was a really interesting study that interviewed 2,500 Americans and said, "Do you know the definitions of the following four words, deductible, co-payment, co-insurance, and out of pocket?" Kathleen: I'm getting a headache just thinking about those words right now. Dan: I know you are, I know you are. Well, three quarters of Americans said they knew the definitions, but then the researchers said, "Okay, prove it and give us the definitions." I'll cut to the chase, only four percent of Americans could define all four of those words. Yet, every major healthcare company uses those words in the quote/unquote, "Explanation," of benefits. Which, I laugh at because it's neither explanatory nor beneficial. Kathleen: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Dan: But, so that's where I would start. I think there are lots of cool examples of what I like to call, I use the word "witty" as being where I think you want to aim. It's not about being humorous, because I may tell a joke that I think is funny and you may find offensive, so I'm very careful about humor. But, I think witty is a good place to be. Examples of Brands Nailing Customer Experience With Witty Copy Dan: Let me give you a couple examples with witty. There's a wonderful sign in Manhattan for a retailer, and people who have walked the streets of Manhattan have maybe seen this sign before. It says, in big bold letters, it says, "We are probably the lowest priced in the city." I love that, right? I don't even know what this company sells and I already love this company, right? Because, I know that their honest- Kathleen: Yeah. I was going to say, it's pretty honest. Dan: ... I know ... Yep, I know they're honest. I know they have a sense of humor, right? Already, so they're fun. You've told me so much about this business, and I don't even know what they sell. That's how powerful words can be in marketing. There's a sign I love to show that is at the bottom of a huge skyscraper in Chicago and it's got some arrows and it says, "Almost there ... Please use other entrance." I looked at this and I was like, "You know, that was two words. The almost there, that made this from a sign that was completely unremarkable, to one that made me smile." Because, somebody took the time to add those words, "Almost there," and it was now a fun sign instead of just a tactical sign. I think this can come, this can happen anywhere in marketing. There's a gas station near my house where the big sign outside with the price says, "Unleaded 2.99." Then, where they ... the place where they can put the letters up and write something it says, "Customer service, priceless." Again, think about the expectations that, that gas station has already set. This is going to be the friendly gas station, this is going to be the one that the person inside greets you with a smile, because they believe customer service is priceless. These are very simple, inexpensive, really free ways to change your marketing to create a different experience, and that's where I suggest people start. How To Craft Witty Marketing Copy Kathleen: And, any advice for the marketer who might be listening and thinking, "Ugh. I just don't, I'm not witty. I don't have the talent to think of these things." Are there any tricks, or things that people can do to start getting more in that mindset? Dan: Yeah. I mean, the first is just eliminating the words that are industry jargon, or acronyms, right? I wrote about that bank study because I had seen somebody post on LinkedIn, a bank ad which was an email. It was a subject line. The subject line had seven words in it, and three of the words were acronyms. It's like, I mean come on. That is not ... the post on LinkedIn was a guy quoting his daughter who had received the email and she said, "Is this even English?" That's where I would start, is I would look at the language that you have. Again, if you don't want to be witty, that's okay. But, you can look for industry jargon, you can look for big words and turn them into small words. I'm a prolific writer, I blog all the time. But, I was never real good at the verbal side of the SAT's, so I never thought of myself as having a really large vocabulary. But, as it turns out, I believe it makes my writings more readable because I'm just speaking in normal words. I'm not using big, scientific, or long words to make myself sound smart. I'm just, I'm writing like people talk. Therefore, it's easier to consume, and I think marketers can absolutely do that. I remember my high school teacher used to say, "Read your words out loud-" Kathleen: Yeah. Dan: ... "And, hear how they sound." You should do that with marketing, right? If you're reading your marketing out loud, you're going to catch things that don't sound right, and you can make them simpler that way. Kathleen: Amen. There have been a few times where I have filled in for the person who heads up our editorial content for our website, and I've had to review draft articles that people have submitted to us. Once or twice I have gotten articles that were nonsensical that literally I was like, "I need to send this back to this person and just tell them to read it out loud to themselves, because I have no idea what they're trying to say. It doesn't make any sense." They would know that if they just took a minute, and like read it, you know? Even if they didn't read it out loud. It's amazing, I think, how often we create content and we don't take the time to even review what it is we've created. I love those tips, and I think that's a great place to start. Eliminating the jargon, almost like writing as though you're talking to a friend, or a family member, what have you. Moving beyond messaging then, what would be kind of the next step for that marketer looking to really take a better approach to customer experience? Why Viral Experiences Are Your Best Marketing Dan: Well, so I'm going to sort of turn your question around, because I believe that you have to ... just as we said before that you have to have a great product or service to market, you have to create the experience first, and then it becomes your marketing, not the other way around. And so, I believe it's about how do you create a, as I said before, a positive experience that people want to share? Then, you have other people doing the marketing for you first of all, which is awesome, right? Because, we all strive for this word-of-mouth marketing, this elusive word-of-mouth marketing. It's not going to be found in a viral video. Any of us that have worked in corporate America have heard a C level executive ask us, "Well, why can't you just create a viral video?" Kathleen: Yeah. Dan: Because, that's not how it works. But, what you can do is create a viral experience. You could create an experience that people love so much they want to tell people about it. I think there's a couple things that you have to do in order to create such an experience. One of them is to be really intentional about it. It's to -- as you build the experience -- to think about all of the places that people may be willing to share. We talk about certain meals being Instagram worthy, for example. Well, I believe that the chefs are creating them that way intentionally, right? Kathleen: Yes. Dan: Because, they want people to share them. I'll give you an interesting example here. There's a company called Sip Smith, it's an alcohol company. It's mostly known for its gin. It's a London based gin, and it just recently came to the United States in the last, I don't know, year or two. Or, at least it came to Chicago in the last year. I was at a local Chicago festival and they were doing a tasting. Now, most of the time when you go and get a taste of a wine, or a beer, or an alcoholic beverage of some sort some person hands you a little plastic cup, and you take a sip, and you either like it or you don't. You throw out the cup, and you move on. Sip Smith didn't want to have that kind of experience, so they built an immersive experience where you walk up to this bar, there's a bartender behind it with bottles of Sip Smith Gin. The first thing is, he asks you what kind of tonic that you want. Now, I didn't know I actually had a choice of tonic, so here I'm already learning something, right? Well, there was Mediterranean tonic, and European tonic, and standard tonic, so I choose one of the tonics. He then points me over to a garnish bar. Kathleen: Hmm. Dan: Now, a gin and tonic usually has a lime in it, right? Pretty basic. Well, this garnish bar had about 18 different garnishes. Everything from lemons and lines, to dried strawberries, and peppercorns, and ginger, and rose petals, and all this stuff. You could create your drink, but they didn't stop there. By the way, I did the math in case anybody was wondering. There were over a billion combinations that you could make. Kathleen: That's awesome. Dan: They didn't stop there. The next thing they did is they sent you to a table where you could grab a little miniature card, and name your drink. Right then- Kathleen: That is so cool. Dan: ... They keep it on the card, and they gave you a little tiny clip that you could clip to your cub so that as you're walking around with your beverage, you're advertising the name of your drink to everybody. Of course, what do people do? They clip the name to their cup, they take a picture of it, and they share it on social media. This whole experience was intentional. It was meant to be immersive so that it was meant for you to try their product in a realistic setting, which is not drinking it out of a plastic cup straight, because most people drink gin that way. But, it was immersing you in the way that you, you exactly you, independent, unique you would drink it. Because, I might drink it with European tonic and a lime, and you might drink it with Indian tonic and a strawberry. But, we all can do it our own way. But, it also was intentionally shareable. It was done in a way where once I personalized it with a name of my drink, of course I wanted to take a picture of it and share it with people. That's, that to me is how ... Then, it makes marketing's job that much easier, right? Because, you have everybody else sharing, and talking about your brand. Then, really all marketing has to do is get in the conversation and say, "Hey, thanks for sharing. We love you too. You guys are great." It becomes, it makes marketing's job a whole lot easier. Kathleen: Well, for the record when it comes to gin and tonics, I am a Fever Tree Elderflower Tonic and lime kind of a girl. But, that's amazing. I inexplicably have a craving right now for gin and tonics and it's before noon. Dan: Sorry about that. Kathleen: But, that sounds incredible, it really does. It's not like a very expensive way to engage. If you're already going to be there, you're already going to be offering samples of your product. It's not a huge leap from a budget or an effort standpoint to do what you described. That's a great example. Dan: Yeah. I mean, I'd say the biggest example of all time of shareable word of mouth marketing to me was the share a Coke promotion, right? That had all of the names on the bottles. If you think about that, that was a reasonably sized operational undertaking. Kathleen: Yeah. Dan: But, what I thought was so interesting about it was that it continued to evolve over time. The first time they released the names on the bottles they got a lot of people loving it, and sharing it, and happy. But, then they got people with different names who were unhappy- Kathleen: Yeah. Dan: ... That there name wasn't on there. So, they went back and they created a whole bunch more, several thousand more names were added. Because, once they were doing it, it wasn't hard to add names to it. But, most recently, and I don't know how many people have noticed this. But, most recently they made another change. The names are no longer on the actual label of the product, they're on a sticker that you can peel off of the product and actually share it with the person. Kathleen: That's very cool. Dan: If you think about it, if I got a bottle of Diet Coke that had "Kathleen" on it, if I drank that bottle and then tried to hand it to you, you're not really excited to receive it, right? But, now I can just peel off the sticker and hand you your name, and I think they made it even more shareable. Kathleen: That is so cool, and I have never seen a Kathleen coke. If you find one and you're listening, send it to me. Dan: Challenge accepted. How To Create Viral Customer Experiences Kathleen: Yeah, exactly. That's great. The question in my head is then, if it's really about starting by creating the experience, as a marketer how do you suggest that somebody approach that? Because really, you're talking about getting your tentacles into theoretically, many different parts of the business, you know? You're talking about production, if it's a product, when you talked about Coke. It could be getting involved in sales. There's a lot of crossover there that I think can scare the average marketer. Any advice for how to approach that organizationally so that you get buy in, and you're able to go down that path? Dan: Yeah. What I would suggest is that you make sure that you're the customer of your own product, and service and, that you are an engaged customer so that you're experiencing the whole journey. A great example from Discover, we had a feature on the card that allowed you to turn the card on and off if you felt like you had lost the card in the sofa cushions. That was a feature that had been there for a long time, but it took our CMO to literally realize that, that feature existed and say, "Wow, this is really cool. We should be telling people about this." Then the marketers came in and did their thing, and named it, "Freeze It." It became a huge television campaign, and it became sort of one of the lead features of the card. Since then, most of Discover's competitors have copied that feature. But, all it took was somebody observing something that was already there about the experience that was remarkable, but that nobody was talking about. I think that's where I would start as a marketer is say, "Let me just be a customer here, and find the places that I really need, and the things that make us different and better. Then, let's figure out how to talk about those things. Often times those things already exist. I think in other places, you can as a marketer, also be willing to let other people be marketers. I don't mean tactical, sending out the emails marketers. What I mean is, you can let the lawyers be marketers, right? There's some great examples of legal disclosure that's actually fun to read, right? I mean, think about that for a minute. That's mind blowing. Legal disclosure that's fun to read. There's a company out of Malaysia called Iflix, it's like an Asian version of Netflix. In that typical disclosure that you see in emails where it says like, "If you're the unintended recipient, you must give us your first child, and delete the message," and whatever. Well, their disclosure starts off with the words, "Covering our butts." Now, if covering our butts doesn't get you to want to read that disclosure I don't know what does. I read it, and you know what? The whole disclosure is hilarious, and you can tell that a lawyer and a marketer, it's like on a joke. "A lawyer and a marketer walk into a bar." Kathleen: Yeah. Dan: It's like, the two of them sat down together and they said, "Okay, the lawyer said, 'This is what you must say.' Then the marketer said, 'Okay. I'm going to take what I must say, and I'm going to add to it, and make it fun, and make it engage-able.'" I think that's where marketers have to be more willing to sort of take the time to say either, "Here are the places that are already remarkable, let's talk about it." Or, "Here are the places that are completely unremarkable that we can make remarkable in a simple way." Kathleen: I love that example you just gave, and I wish I could remember the name of the company (And I did! It's called Squaremouth). But, sometime in the last few months I heard about a company, and I think it was a big company, that halfway through their disclosures, or their privacy statement, or one of those horrible documents that nobody reads. Halfway through it they added, "If you have read this far, you can win X." I want to say the first 10 people that responded got a free trip somewhere, because they just literally read that far into it, and found this random paragraph. It was like, "Congratulations." Dan: That's amazing. Kathleen: "Nobody reads this, but because you did we're sending you to Hawaii." Dan: Well, so that's a great story. I immediately ask the question, if we know nobody reads this, then why are we doing it? Kathleen: Yeah. Dan: You know? It's like- Kathleen: To cover our butt. Dan: I remember ... Yeah, to cover our butts. Yeah, but I remember a number of times in corporate America, the marketers often looked at the lawyers as sort of the other side of the table, right? The guys that were stopping us from doing what we really wanted to do. I always reminded my team that the lawyers were there to keep us out of jail, so we want them to do their jobs really well. But, it doesn't mean that we have to produce any content, and disclosures are content, right? I mean, disclosures are there because what's the legal reason they're there? It's to cover our butts, but it's also because we want to inform customers about certain limitations to our product, or in the pharmacy world, certain side effects or whatever it is. This is important information. When you think about it from that perspective and you put on your marketers hat you say, "Okay, so what if I actually want people to read the disclosures?" Holy cow, that's different, right? Kathleen: Yeah. Dan: Today what we do is we say, "Well, what's the smallest font size we can put the disclosures in so that hopefully people will read past them?" Kathleen: No one will notice them. Dan: Right? I say, don't do that. Ask yourself, what if the disclosures were in 30 point font? What would you say, and how could you say it in a way that actually gets the message across in a way that's beneficial to your customer? Kathleen's Two Questions Kathleen: Oh, so interesting. I feel like I could sit here and just pick your brain all day long. Unfortunately, we don't have all day. I have a couple questions for you that I want to make sure I ask before we wrap. The first is, this is the Inbound Success Podcast, a lot of the listeners here are interested in inbound marketing. I want to kind of bring inbound marketing together with customer experience, because that's really the whole point of this conversation. When you think about the world of brands, companies, marketers out there, who do you think right now is really nailing it when it comes to marrying the two, an inbound marketing approach that also delivers a phenomenal customer experience? Dan: Right now I am obsessed with a company that, in full disclosure, I am a customer of, called Imperfect Produce. It's a company based in San Francisco, and it was founded by a couple of guys who were noticing on their college campus that a ton of food in the cafeteria was going to waste. They created this company, what they found after investigating was that we actually have a pretty big food problem in the United States, which is that tons, and tons, and tons of food on farms, perfectly usable produce, gets thrown into the landfill. Mostly because it doesn't look pretty, it's nice enough for supermarkets. They started a company where they ship out boxes in a subscription service, of what they call ugly fruit. Often times, it's not ugly at all. It's just surplus, or it's a little bit big. Sometimes you get like a comically large cucumber, or you'll get really small pears, or something like that. But, they're not disgusting. In fact, they're wonderful inside. What I love about what they're doing is first of all, they're using the witty part. In their marketing there's a billboard in Chicago that says, "We'll help you get dates," and it's got pictures of actual, of the fruit, and with smiles on there, kind of animated smiles. They're very witty about that. In their social media they use food puns, and stuff like that. They're very brand on. When you get their box, you literally want to look at all sides of the box, including the bottom of the box which has a really fun message on it. Again, this costs nothing, right? They're already printing on the box, so just print everywhere and make it so that it's usable. But, the part they're doing on the experience that I think is awesome, is they are actually tracking for me, my individual contribution of how much produce I have saved from the landfill, how much water I have saved, and how many pounds of carbon dioxide that I've kept out of the atmosphere. I'm just going to brag for a moment. In the last year I've saved 385 pounds of diverted produce, over 15,000 gallons of water, and 1,300 pounds of carbon dioxide. I love that, because you're creating again, this immersive experience. You're marketing to me, right? Kathleen: Yeah. Dan: That's marketing. You're telling me, "Hey Dan, you're doing a great job. Pat on the back. By the way, stay with us and have those numbers go up." Right? I want to share that with people and say, "Holy cow, I've saved 385 pounds. That's so cool." I just think they've -- from beginning to end, from prospecting, to communicating with their existing customers -- I think they're doing such a great job of being on message, consistent. Obviously they provide a great product, and that's important. But, this continuous reminder of you're not just doing it because the food tastes good, you're doing it because you care about the societal impact as well. I think that is a perfect combo for me. Kathleen: I love that example, and I'll make sure to give them a big shout out in the show notes. If you want to check them out, head to the show notes and there will be a link in there. Separate question, the world of marketing is changing so quickly, social media is changing literally every day. I feel like it's a total fire hose if you're a marketer, to try and keep up. Personally, how do you stay on top of all of this? What are your go-to sources to make sure that you're up to date on everything that's going on? Dan: Well, I would say that partially due to the success of your organization and others like Marcus talking about it, I think there's so many sources today that it's almost impossible to keep up. I've actually moved towards using aggregator services like Apple News or Flipboard, because I find that so much easier than remembering to go to my 10 favorite websites every day to find news. I tend to search by keyword and topic, versus depending on any specific source every day. I don't know if that's disappointing to inbound marketers, it might be. But I think, again, it's a result of the fact that so many companies are so focused on inbound marketing now, and are doing a good job of it. We have more great content out there than ever before. But, to me what I'm finding is, I can find it in all sorts of places, so why limit myself to a single couple, one or two sources? Kathleen: That's so true. There is so much information out there, and I think you bring up a good point for marketers which is that, yes, you need to be creating really great, helpful content, and have it on your website. But, don't overlook the fact that not everybody's going to come to your website to find it, and look at these other channels. You mentioned Flipboard, I'm a big fan of Flipboard. Look at these other channels and see how you can get your content there too. My feeling has always been, as long as people are consuming your content, it really doesn't matter where they're doing it. Dan: Absolutely. How to Connect With Dan Kathleen: Love that. Well Dan, thank you. Again, so much good stuff. I love all the stories, and the concrete examples of companies doing it well. If somebody wants to dig deeper into this, what's the best way for them to learn more, maybe read some more of these stories, maybe get your book? Dan: Well, I write for Forbes regularly, and this is what I focus on. In fact, Forbes requires you to create a sentence, one sentence that describes exactly what you do on Forbes. My sentence is, "I write about how customer experience can be your best marketing." If you head over to Forbes and do a search for my name, you can see all of the, including some of the examples that I just shared with you. But, people can also find me on my own website which is DanGingiss.com. It's G-I-N-G-I-S-S. You can find information about my book there. I also host a podcast called Experience This, where we tell stories all the time about companies creating remarkable experiences. And, of course because I practice what I preach, if you get in touch with me on Twitter @DGingiss I will respond and get back with you. Kathleen: I love it. All those links will be in the show notes, so head over there if you want to check those out. Thank you again Dan, it's been so much fun. I've learned a lot today. You Know What To Do Next... Dan: Well, thank you Kathleen, it's been a lot of fun for me as well. Kathleen: If you're listening and you learned something new or liked what you heard, as always please consider giving the podcast a five star review on Apple Podcasts. If you know somebody whose doing kick ass inbound marketing work, tweet me @WorkMommyWork, because they could be my next guest. Thanks for listening.

Dan Head (CRO) and Robbie Matthews (Director of Integrations and Onboarding) join me in foggy Londontown to chat about the evolution of marketing, from old world email and DMPs to flexible architecture that is channel agnostic. Learn the nitty gritty of why new school tech is leaving legacy clouds in the dust. Dan also hints at a future of talking toothbrushes and Robbie shares his data dreams.        TRANSCRIPT: [0:00:17] PJ Bruno: Hello again. Welcome back to Braze For Impact, your weekly tech industry discussed digest. This week, we're here in London, in our London office and I'm thrilled to have with me two close friends, Dan Head, Chief Revenue Officer at Braze. Hey Dan.   [0:00:33] Dan Head: Hey PJ. It's good to see you.   [0:00:35] PJ Bruno: And also, Robbie Matthews, Director of Integrations and Onboarding. Robbie, how you doing?   [0:00:40] Robbie Matthews: Good, how are you?   [0:00:41] PJ Bruno: I'm quite well. And I know it's a bit of a canned response, but I got to say, the weather's unbelievable here. I've been getting all this bad intel about bad weather and this is unreal.   [0:00:51] Robbie Matthews: You got a British tan?   [0:00:52] PJ Bruno: Yeah, exactly. I don't know how. I literally got sunburnt yesterday. It's ridiculous.   [0:00:57] Robbie Matthews: It's all lies. Fake news.   [0:00:59] PJ Bruno: Well, you know, coming into Easter weekend, how you guys feeling? Happy Easter, by the way. I don't know if you guys celebrate. Plans for the weekend? Any...   [0:01:08] Robbie Matthews: We tend to celebrate confectionary throughout the year, anyway. So, we can eat chocolate eggs this weekend, too.   [0:01:13] PJ Bruno: I notice in the lobby, there. You guys are loaded up. What we're going to talk about today, really, it's kind of like the evolution of marketing technology and more than that, we want to demystify a lot of the things. Because you hear a lot of snap terminology, a lot of jargon, but let's actually break it down and understand what we're talking about, using the facts. And, before we jump in, I love... you know, Robbie, I know you eat, sleep, and breathe data, or so says your girlfriend.   [0:01:42] Robbie Matthews: I thought you may bring this up.   [0:01:45] PJ Bruno: Yeah, can you just give us that anecdote really quick?   [0:01:49] Robbie Matthews: So, Dan's already smiling at me.   [0:01:53] Dan Head: I'm not familiar with this one.   [0:01:54] Robbie Matthews: So, I was sleeping the other day and I woke up and my girlfriend was just staring at me, like a puzzled face. I was like, "Why are you looking at me whilst I'm sleeping? Firstly, that's a bit weird." And she was like, "Do you realize what you've been talking about for last two minutes?" And I was like, "What you talking about?" She said, "Oh, you've just been sleep talking about, like, piping data into various places and where you should send data to, and this is how you send data." And I was like, "I need to get some better dreams."   [0:02:23] Dan Head: Need to cash in that brace therapy reimbursement.   [0:02:25] Robbie Matthews: Or she needs to find a new boyfriend, is what she needs to do.   [0:02:29] PJ Bruno: Well, that's her journey and that's for her to decide. But, anyway, I'm glad you were able to share that with us, thanks bud.   [0:02:35] Robbie Matthews: Thanks, PJ.   [0:02:36] PJ Bruno: Yeah. So, let's jump right into it. Best place to start, where we came from as far as marketing tech. You know, Dan, you're old. Why don't you tell us...   [0:02:48] Robbie Matthews: Everybody says that.   [0:02:51] PJ Bruno: But you still look so good. We were saying, "Tell me your moisturizer, because I need to get some of that."   [0:02:55] Robbie Matthews: What's a face care regime?   [0:02:56] Dan Head: I'm embalmed.   [0:02:57] PJ Bruno: Yeah. I just let snails crawl over my face every night. It's a beautiful thing. So, how do we move from email to the concept of a stack, or an ecosystem. Do you think you can talk about this a little bit, Dan?   [0:03:10] Dan Head: Yeah. I think it goes back to the perspective that businesses have had on just these technologies from the ground up. Historically, I think companies have looked at providing communications on channels like email as being a utility. You know, you set up a business, I need seats and chairs and desks. I need water coming out the taps and electricity. And I need a way of sending email. And, when the marketers have wanted to have these tools to communicate to their customers, they've asked the IT teams to provide this technology, and the IT teams have gone out and procured that technology. So, over time, a stack of tech debt has built up, if you like. By acquiring these utilities, acquiring technologies for these channels and finding ways to stitch all of that together. Which is, if you like, a ground up, let's just go get the bricks and build the house, sort of thing. But, unfortunately, the world's different now, because every year, CES throws millions of new channels at us, you know? It's connected wind screens, it's connected forks and toothbrushes and all sorts of other crazy stuff. And, businesses just can't keep acquiring channel specific tech anymore. It needs to be data centric, it needs to be customer centric. Because, all of us as individuals have got our preferences about how we want to communicate with brands. And so, now we're moving away from a utility plumbing based approach, to a customer centric data oriented approach. And, that is how, I guess, the modern concept of a vertically integrated stack has been born.   [0:04:55] PJ Bruno: Yeah. And, obviously there's these advances in technology, we're going way more mobile, right? But, there has to be those that are lifting up the torch and kind of pushing us forward. And putting that pressure on legacy, right? You called them the role models, yesterday.   [0:05:12] Dan Head: That's right. Because there are businesses that have been born into this new environment. When you order your on demand taxi, or you order your on demand pizza take-away, whatever, when you're looking for a date, these are technologies and services that haven't existed previously. They've been born into the device. And, you look inside those companies, and the teams and the people and their KPI's and the technology, it's completely different from a legacy enterprise business. And, if those companies don't get customer orientation and data driven communication correct, it's an existential problem for them. They haven't got another business model to fall back on. And so they become, and this is why I see them as role models, they become role models for more classic enterprises. And, that would be my advice to any long standing enterprise, is to go look at those companies and see how they do it. It's a good place to start.   [0:06:10] PJ Bruno: Do you think they're actually, these bigger legacy companies, do you think they're actually interested in completely reworking their tech? Or does it feel like stitch up solutions to stay relevant?   [0:06:23] Dan Head: I think in big companies, big enterprises, I think there are a bunch of political reasons why it makes sense and it's safe to stay with the status quo, you know? If the CEO or CIO says we're going to do this one particular way and we've got our IT standards. And, I work in the CRM team and I know the tech doesn't work, well, I'm only going to have so much appetite to stand up against those folks because at the end of the day, I want to get paid.   [0:06:48] PJ Bruno: Right, right.   [0:06:48] Dan Head: Right? But, I think at some point, and I appreciate the political importance of standards and doing what the bosses say. But at some point, the political importance of customer experience and the political importance of driving outcomes with those customers, I think, is more important than the politics of IT standards, and so on. And businesses eventually figure that out. It's just part of their evolution. And one of the factors that we see, which I think is a good indicator is, where businesses have taken the CMO role and the CTO role and then they've sort of adapted it. And now you see this emergence of the CCO, or the chief customer officer role, where the customer officer has got a greater stake and influence on tech decisions. Because it is literally customer oriented. That tends to be a good indication of that evolution is fairly well progressed.   [0:07:39] PJ Bruno: Yeah. You mentioned customer experience. It's funny that now it all kind of just comes back to that. It's like there's this strength in tech, but really it's ideating towards the customer. And so, my question, I guess, to you is, what is customer experience actually mean now?   [0:07:57] Dan Head: Yeah, just use some examples. We all use these role models, these new technologies, and so on. But, I'm reminded of a quote from Keith Weed, the current, or perhaps former, because he's leaving, CMO of Unilever, he had this expression, "You know, our job as a brand is to get to the future first, and welcome our customers as they arrive." And most enterprises-   [0:08:23] PJ Bruno: That's a great quote.   [0:08:23] Dan Head: Yeah.   [0:08:24] PJ Bruno: That's a strong one.   [0:08:25] Dan Head: I dig that one up a lot. Yeah, I like that one. Most enterprises, I think, are just trying to catch up with the current world. Let alone the future world, so just as an example: If I'm driving down the highway and maybe I would fancy a coffee. And let's say, the folks at Costa Coffee, this business acquired by Coca Cola, they want to send me a notification to say, "You're coming up on a service area and there's a Costa and you can get a deal on a cup of coffee there." Well, I'm driving, there's no point in them sending that to me on my phone. But, as we saw at CES, there are technologies like connected windscreens and there's more connected computing in cars now, anyway. So, there are opportunities for Costa to send that message to me on these new devices. Which would be a more appropriate way to deliver it. But, brands just aren't ready for that. Because brands are channel centric, they're not data centric, they're not customer centric. They're not able to make the most of these technologies as and when they emerge. And, as a result, therefore, they can't be customer oriented.   [0:09:31] PJ Bruno: Right. And since it's all about the customer experience, right, you want to make sure that you're not abusing that use of data, right? So, we live in now, this world, it's a wash of data, right? It's all over the place. It can be collected. So, why is effective and responsible use of data important to what you do?   [0:09:51] Dan Head: Yeah, I mean, of course we've had laws like GDPR and then there's going to be the California Data privacy laws coming in. And the world is realizing that this is... Brand connection with customers is about trust. And that comes through the responsible use of data. So, it's not that there are just new legislative frameworks, which make it law that we have to be responsible. But it's just the basis of good marketing, anyway. And so, the technologies that need to be adopted here, need to enable the marketer to use data effectively, at the right place, at the right time, to seek permission. And to act on that permission and behavior that is being granted and communicated by the customer. It's like a conversation. There have been studies, like the one Forrester released on the brand humanity index about the effect of, and the positive effect of talking to your customers in a human way. And what talking in a human way actually consists of. So, it's not just law and legislation that makes us a necessity, these are the ingredients of delivering positive outcomes.   [0:11:03] PJ Bruno: Right. A human touch is super important. And, now also, more than ever, the stack and the technology is really important. And I remember, you said yesterday, the term you used is, "Architecturally enabling", right? And so, Robbie, you're a little more on the technical side. So, from your perspective, from these role models perspective, even, what are the fundamental engineering building blocks that are architecturally enabling versus those that are somewhat prohimitive.   [0:11:38] Robbie Matthews: Yeah. If we start at looking at these traditional enterprise businesses, and typically they're built on relational databases as a foundation. And then we take an example of what Dan's mentioned of these role models, which are using document based storage as a foundation. We can look at what those are and then how they actually enable what you need to send to customers. So, firstly, just what is a relational database? It's essentially a storage of data that's organized into tables. And each of those tables has a very rigid, defined schema. And what you need to do with that, is be able index it, to be able to say, "Okay, I've got this data in one table, how do I join it to another data in another table." And Dan mentioned tech debt, earlier. And that's a big issue. So, if we take a client like Deliveroo, you can say, "Okay, what sort of data have they got?" They've got their user data, they've got all their purchase data. Maybe have reviews that they've left about you. Favorite restaurants. And that all exists in different tables. And as the landscape becomes more complex, you're going to only increase the amount of data you want about users and the environment they're operating in. And that's going to create tech debt. So, what does that actually mean for a brand, when you come to wanting to send messages and target and talk to your users in a human way? And, really, the first thing is agility. If you've got an ever increasing amount of data that you need to join together when you want to create a segment to target those users. That becomes a much, much harder piece to actually stitch those data tables together, access the data in a quick way and define the messages and the audience that you want to send to your users. So, what do brands actually want to do? They want to use that data. They want to define customer audiences. They want to send individualized messages based on any kind of behavior around a customer, like demographics, location data, contextual data. And as soon as you need to index all those tables, or predict what a customer is going to want to do with your platform, which is the tough thing. We can't predict what customers want to do, that changes every day, as new technologies get introduced. As breaking news happens, you're going to want a segment or an audience that we just can't predict. And as soon as you need to rely on the indexing and the schema to access that data, we lose the ability and the agility to do that, in such a rigid manner, which is what the databases in these relational databases require. So, how, I guess a MongoDB or document based storage actually solves that, is, firstly, it's a schema less database. So, we can define exactly how we want to structure data to support these customer requirements. Using documents, as opposed to a relational schema let's us model very complex objects. And then, due to the structuring of that data, we don't need to make those joins and stitch all the data together in this increasingly complex landscape. So it means customers can make a heap of customized segments, off the cuff, and really give them the agility to create these audiences, send out campaigns as they wish.   [0:14:57] PJ Bruno: And that's all around like free flow of data, right? Because, relational is a lot more stringent. It needs to be set up in a way... I mean, that's kind of what I'm hearing, is...   [0:15:10] Robbie Matthews: I guess there's two parts to that question. There's one is speed in the context of a database. And then, I think when you're talking about free flow of data, that's probably where we want to look at more around ETL processes and Kafka. So, maybe let's touch on the speed in relation to relational and document based storage and then we can come onto Kafka and ETL processes.   [0:15:31] PJ Bruno: Okay.   [0:15:31] Robbie Matthews: So, in speed... As you say, customers just demand customer engagement platforms to run fast. Customers demand it. If you need to send out a break in push, ABC wants you do that as fast a possible. And, really, that's about read and write throughput on your database. So, let's take an example where you have to, like in a relational database, where you need to make a number of individual queries, join different tables, and that could take days to produce the results. Whereas, a no seek with MongoDB style database allows you to run queries in parallel, break up your dataset, run higher number of queries, and get that data back almost instantly. So you get those audiences that you want to target much, much quicker. Yeah, so that's the speed element on the relational database versus MongoDB. The second part of your question about ETL versus Kafka and the streaming is, again, like, "How do I actually access that data, or upload my, data into my data warehouse?" Think previously, Dan mentioned utility. Like they way that brands store data has just changed. Various data from different DB's could be loaded into a master data warehouse, once or twice a day. And that's fine. However, let's take the example of Deliveroo. I don't care to admit how many Deliveroo's I order a day. But, they need to know if I've made two this morning, or one this afternoon. And they don't want that upload of data to happen 24 hours later. And to get told that I actually made three orders in the last day. They want to know about that as soon as it happens, be sent to them as that event takes place.   [0:17:19] PJ Bruno: Right, but you don't want to know that you've ordered three times in one day?   [0:17:21] Robbie Matthews: My waistline doesn't want to know that I've eaten three times in a day, but that's a different story.   [0:17:27] PJ Bruno: It's for another podcast.   [0:17:30] Robbie Matthews: So, ETL versus parallel stream processes. And, what that parallel stream processing does, is essentially sets up a queue of events as and when they happen. Then you can listen to those events, publish those events and then essentially subscribe and act upon those events as and when they happen. So, let's take an example of a train booking company, a UK train ticketing company. Where, if I make a purchase for a journey later today, in the ETL world, that upload may happen tomorrow. In which case, I've already missed my train. I've missed all of the communications around it. It doesn't help. In the Kafka world, as soon as that event purchase takes place, you, as a business can act on that purchase immediately, send information about when the train is, any delays about that train. And make sure that user has a good experience with your brand. But, like I said, in the ETL world, I've probably already missed my train because it left the station 30 minutes late. And then the data was only sent to you as a business, to act on the next day.   [0:18:34] PJ Bruno: Yeah.   [0:18:38] Dan Head: This term, real time, I think is sort of used and abused and misunderstood. Like the examples that Robbie just used about travel, timing, of course it has to be real time. It has to be in the moment, otherwise, you're going to miss your train. You're going to miss your taxi, whatever. And, those examples apply to all other businesses, as well, right? Because again, this interaction between a brand and a customer, in order for that to be human, it has to be current. It has to be up to date, based on information that is relevant right now. So, as an example, let's say, I'm on the train and I'm on the way to work and I'm browsing for some sneakers on my mobile web, on my phone. And I add some things to my cart, but I don't transact and then I get to work. And I nip out for lunch and I actually go an buy those sneakers in store. But, maybe there was an abandoned cart email scheduled for 2:00 PM. And that abandoned cart email is still going to come out at 2:00 PM, it's not going to be cognizant of the fact that I went into the store and I bought those sneakers at lunchtime. So, that is a bad customer experience.   [0:19:52] PJ Bruno: Right.   [0:19:53] Dan Head: Or, just to continue that example, if I'm one of those companies that does sneaker drops, and there's a limited amount of inventory at a particular location. The communications can and should be based on that inventory dropping, you know? Create that exclusivity and that need and that excitement, which is what the sneaker drop is all about. And, I guess what Robbie's talking about is, unless you've got a database structure that can make and broadcast, or make available data in real time elsewhere in your technology ecosystem. Unless that data's being distributed in real time, you can't enable those use cases and you can't satisfy that need for a good, premium customer experience.   [0:20:38] PJ Bruno: And the value of that is just less and less as time goes on, right?   [0:20:42] Dan Head: Yeah, exactly. So, I don't really want to know tomorrow that the sneaker drop inventory has run out, you know?   [0:20:50] PJ Bruno: Just creating the opposite of good experiences?   [0:20:52] Dan Head: Right.   [0:20:53] PJ Bruno: It's just frustration. I'd rather just get nothing, right?   [0:20:55] Dan Head: Right.   [0:20:55] PJ Bruno: I'd rather not even see it. All right, cool. Why don't we do something fun and round up with, I mean, you were talking a little bit, Dan, about toothbrushes that talk to you. I want my toothbrush to talk to me so badly. I have to just talk to myself at the time. But, what's the future hold? What kind of last words do we want to put out about, maybe predictions we might have, or a word to the wise about a good strategy, or just some advice to keep in mind moving forward.   [0:21:29] Dan Head: I think there's two angles, to look at it from a customer's perspective. Speaking about myself, I mean, there are always new devices and new technologies and some of us are going to be quicker on the adoption than others. But, as a population now, we are more tech savvy than ever before. More willing to try technologies more than ever before. We have an expectation of being delighted more than ever before. We're willing to kind of experiment and try stuff. And, from a brand's perspective, how on earth are you going to deal with that? So, brands just need to future proof themselves, they just need to be data centric. They just need to have the engineering horse power. They just need to have the developed muscle groups, the ways of working, the team structures based around what's possible with real time data. And then, whether it's that toothbrush talking to you, or the fork telling me that I'm eating too quickly, you know? Whatever it is, the brand can deal with that. And, I think ultimately, where brands are trying to get to, is there should be this ability to be creative and playful with technology. We shouldn't just be worried about the plumbing, "Oh no, I've gotta send a message on this channel now, rather than that channel because of this new device's come out." If we can use any channels, anywhere at anytime, based on current data, then we can really use that as a creative canvas for just amazing, delightful, surprising marketing. And, that's the kind of thing that we, as a population, kind of enjoy. We don't enjoy stuff that's irrelevant, we don't enjoy stuff that we haven't opted in to. But we are willing to be surprised and we are willing to be engaged if we think the brand is making an effort to do so.   [0:23:22] PJ Bruno: I love it. Robbie, you got anything?   [0:23:25] Robbie Matthews: I think that, I'll bring it back to the architecture, to Dan's point around what brands want to do. You want you customer engagement platform at the point you're ready to use sort of surprise and delight strategies that Dan's talking about in reaching customers. You want your engagement platform to be ready to allow you to do that. And not still be developing itself. And, the way its architected, and the way it's able to meet the marketplace's changes is going to be crucial. So, I mean, WWDC happens, Google IO happens, there's a heap of changes to how you can send messages to users. And your engagement platform has to keep up to date with that. So, how they're architected, how they're able to be flexible to meet the new abilities of these OS's, is crucial. And when you look at, again, going back to the sort of, if you want to make joins, create new tables, that's tough to do. And then you have to look back at your current architecture and work out how you stitch that onto the end. Whereas, we take this example of something like a push carousel, where you send a push and you can swipe through a number of images to that. That came out last year. And just the way we were architecting meant you're able to immediately respond to what is new in the market, and give the brands the ability to go out and use that, as and when they're ready.   [0:24:48] Dan Head: Yeah, and we've talked about food quite a bit here. Maybe it's because it's coming up to lunchtime and it's all on our minds, right? But, an example that just brings all this together for me, I think some of us have seen it, which was recently Burger King ran a campaign where they hijacked McDonald's branches and if you got within 600 yards of McDonald's, you would get a message on your Burger King app saying, "You can now redeem a Whopper for one cent." And it would direct you to the Burger King. And it was this cheeky, creative, just technology embracing campaign that got so much attention, they got to the top of the App Store. I mean, how crazy is that? That a burger app can be higher than Instagram and YouTube on the App Store. It's just-   [0:25:37] PJ Bruno: Well, burgers are future proof, Dan.   [0:25:39] Dan Head: They are. And, particular popular where you're from, huh, PJ? But what a great example of creativity with technology. That campaign wouldn't have been possible unless you had the technology in place that Robbie was talking about. And then, once you've created that surprise and delight, now you've got so many more people that are engaging with your brand, that have downloaded the app. And now you can really start to go and have fun with them.   [0:26:04] PJ Bruno: Totally. Well, Robbie, Dan, thank you guys so much for being here. And thank you all for joining us. Just remember Shift is happening. And Legacy Clouds, in the words of Dan and Robbie, don't miss the train. [0:26:17]

In today's podcast the boys come together to discuss candida overgrowth, its frequency within the population, the varied symptomatology associated with this common yeast-like infection and the strategies you can use to bring the body back into balance. Mason, Dan and Sage draw on their superior knowledge of this condition from personal experience, sharing their wisdom from a traditional Taoist tonic herbal perspective and a functional naturopathic approach.   The gents discuss: The fact that Candida albicans is a naturally occurring organism within the body and only becomes problematic when imbalance occurs how chronic use of antibiotics can contribute to the condition how diet and lifestyle practices can help to bring things back into harmony the common symptoms that candida overgrowth is present, e.g. chronic fatigue, brain fog, digestive disturbances, weakened immunity, oral thrush, fungal infections within the the skin and nails etc the particular clinical tests you can use to investigate and diagnose candida within your body how you can use your symptoms and health history to identify whether candida is a problem for you foods that aggravate the immune system and exacerbate candida overgrowth the importance of food combining in regards to candida candida from a naturopathic perspective and the clinical markers used to identify the condition the importance of normalising the body's circadian rhythms and adrenal response is in regards to healing candida from a Taoist perspective and what's happening within the organ systems, particularly the spleen how candida leads to jing depletion and exhaustion within the system as a whole the correlation between candida and leaky gut the Jing herbs you can use to rebuild your foundational energy stores, these include he shou wu, cordyceps, rehmannia, morinda etc the importance of lifestyle factors such as sleep, rest, breathing practices, nature time and reduced caffeine and sugar intake to bring combat candida overgrowth the lifestyle tweaks you can use to bring the body back into its parasympathetic mode so you can heal. Reishi and Ashwagandha are game changers here how cutting carbs and sugar can help manage candida symptoms using fats (ketones) as fuel how herbs such as pau d'arco, chaga and reishi can assist healing the benefits of probiotics and fermented foods such as sauerkraut and coconut kefir  the Body Ecology Diet the importance of sunshine and vitamin D, sweat and movement the herbs and nutraceuticals you can use to break up stubborn biofilms the importance of supporting the liver with herbs such as schizandra, burdock and dandelion root and st mary's thistle  the importance of full body detoxification in healing from candida overgrowth the three phases of liver detoxification and the nutrients your body needs to successfully complete them the immune boosting powers of medicinal mushrooms when healing from candida, particularly chaga, reishi, turkey tail, maitake, Mason's Mushrooms the difference between ground dwelling mushrooms and those that grow on trees e.g medicinal mushrooms  bringing awareness around the glycemic load of gluten free products when working to heal candida overgrowth the tests you can use to distinguish candida from other bacterial loads within the body, particularly the OAT (organic acids test)   Who is Dan Sipple? Dan is a also known as The Functional Naturopath who uses cutting-edge evidence-based medicine. Experienced in modalities such as herbal nutritional medicine, with a strong focus on environmental health and longevity, Dan has a wealth of knowledge in root-dysfunction health.   Who is Sage Dammers? Fuelled by a passionate desire to help people live the ultimate life and create a better world, Sage studied raw and superfood nutrition and traditional herbal systems, especially Taoist tonic herbalism. He has worked with and trained under the world’s leading master herbalists and nutrition and longevity experts in Costa Rica, Australia, Bali, China, and America. Sage has developed products internationally and given lectures on peak performance nutrition in Australia, Bali, America, and France. His years of experience in this unique arena have allowed him to cultivate an unparalleled combination of cutting edge nutritional and culinary expertise. Sage has started tonic elixir bars in 5 star luxury hotels in Paris and Sydney serving longevity elixirs disguised as gourmet treats, introducing the novel concept of healthy indulgences to the market of world travelers.     Resources Clearlight Saunas The Wim Hoff Method Body Ecology Mason in China at the Poria Farm Benny Ferguson Movement MonkDan InstagramDan Email Addictive Wellness  addictivewellness Instagram Addictive Wellness Choccies on Amazon   Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast?   A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or  check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus  we're on Spotify and Soundcloud!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Mason: Hey, everybody! Welcome to the SuperFeast podcast. It's Mason here, and I've got an epic conversation coming for you today with some of my favorite men in the health space. I've got two names and faces you're going to recognize. We've got Sage Dammers from, you're joining us from over in LA, Addictive Wellness. Incredible tonic herb-infused, sugar-free chocolates as well as smoothie elixir packs, and all infused with all these beautiful tonic herbs and mushies we're going to be going into and as well as tonic herbs on their own. Mason: And Sage is one of my absolute favorite voices coming out of that like, gnarly melting pot of LA with this absolutely next-level in health and this integration of health systems from all around the world, and Sage has been in it for so many years and you've heard him talk on it before, and you've heard his wealth of knowledge. It's always surprising to find out what he's going to be able to come up with. And today, talking about candida, is going to be no different. Mason: And I've also got Dan Sipple, friend, functional naturopath down the south coast of Sydney. Dan is absolutely my favorite go-to naturopath, we've been friends for a long time. He is now officially my mother's naturopath and mine and Tahnee's naturopath, and so that's a beautiful little evolution that's going about. Mason: Boys today we're going on a deep dive, three way conversation around the yeast-like infection candida albicans. Welcome guys. Dan: Hey, hey. Sage: Thank you for having us, Mason. It's a pleasure to be here. Mason: Yeah it's going to be so good, so fun. Alright, you know I don't know how many other people are going to be having the best time absolute ever having a conversation around a gnarly infection that's become ... I guess it's not as trendy, I'd say? As it used to be? But it's definitely still a hot topic, especially a hot topic in the west. Mason: Candida albicans, yeast-like fungus within the body that, as I mentioned, now it's absolutely a normal part. These candida cells are a normal part of our body, of our flora, exists within our mucus membranes, our skin, mouths, genitalia, vagina, intestines and other organs. We're going to be talking about this phenomena today where we see some kind of environmental, or maybe lifestyle, or maybe it's been a modern medicine antibiotic that's then led to an upset within our microbiome and basically in many other areas, including immune deficiencies. That's led to this fungus, yeast within the body then overgrowing and getting what many people have experienced, which is fungal overgrowth. Mason: First of all I just want to go to Sage. Just going to go to you and say hey and give people a bit of an insight with your history of candida. Sage: Yeah, absolutely thank you Mason. For me personally, I dealt with candida first hand. When I was growing up I was a vegetarian but not a healthy by any means. I was just on carb overload throughout my whole Childhood of like rice and pasta and pizza and any carb I could get my hands on. Was very fortunate not to be eating fast food, but still was not the most ultimate diet ever. Sage: So when I came into my teen years, about 15 and a half, I started developing chronic acne, probably more to do with my diet than anything else. Diet and combination of hormones and things like that. I didn't know what to do with it at the time, you know? I tried lost of topical things and things of that nature but nothing was really making an impact in helping me, and that's such a stressful thing as a kid to be going through. And I resorted to taking antibiotics, because it was the only thing that was going really do me any good at the time in terms of the superficial results that I was looking for. I didn't understand the whole repercussions and the future downsides of it, I just knew, this is going to help me in the short-term not to be so self-conscious. And I had no other solutions. I didn't know of all these other things I know about now. I wish I would've. Sage: So I was on twice-daily antibiotics from age 16 until 19 and a half. Mason: Gnarly. Sage: So these years of antibiotics, as you can imagine, wreaked havoc on my microbiome, and left me ripe for candida to come in and take over. So it was a thing where in the beginning I enjoyed fruit so much, and even as I was getting healthy and getting onto much more of a natural diet I still really enjoyed fruit. So I didn't want to give that up, and that was the one thing holding me back from really making progress against candida, where I couldn't make the jump to go fully into what was necessary to push back on the candida. Sage: And eventually it got to the point where I got real mentally strong about it and got strict and went through the Body Ecology Diet, Stage One, where it's really strong. Cutting out carbs, cutting out sugars, bringing in probiotics and fermented foods and some of the most powerful antifungal and immune-enhancing herbs, and over the course of a couple years that really got me through it and got me to a much better stage of health. Life has been much better ever since. Mason: Yeah, I mean to the extent that where I think that history of yours has played such a huge part in your life that it's absolutely entwined in your philosophy, the ways that you make your chocolates and your elixir blends, right? Sage: That's why I have sugar-free chocolate, is because I [inaudible 00:05:25] but still have a sweet treat, while I was in the candida recovery stages, and it didn't really exist. It wasn't out there. All, you know there's all these chocolates made with agave and coconut palm sugar and all that, and regardless of where somebody may stand on those things, they are still gonna be feeding bacteria, fungus, yeast and molds in the body, and it's not going to be your friend most times and especially not on recovery from candida where you need to not be feeding these guys. So I made it out of necessity, and it's turned into a beautiful life of being a chocolate maker. Mason: Yeah, I love it. The fruit of the healing journey and I still attest that it's the only sugar-free chocolate that I can really thoroughly enjoy. Sage: Thank you. Mason: Dan you've had quite a history with candida, now you've really had this firsthand clinical experience for a number of years now. I'm interested to hear what your path with candida has been. Dan: Yeah sure, and not too dissimilar to Sage. IT very much came as a result of antibiotic exposure, and so I've talked a couple of times on previous podcasts. In my earlier years, 17, 18, 19 I had issues with viral load and autoimmunity, which kind of set the scene for other opportunistic organisms to take over, and it was a course of about five or six years where I was kind of floating in that space where my immune system was compromised to the point to where I would actually need antibiotics by the time these bacterial infections would take over. It was like a vicious cycle that got set up, and I see that often in clinical practice too, where once that cycle starts it's very hard to get off that train. Particularly if you are being dictated to by the western medical model, which at the time I was heavily under the influence by. Mason: [inaudible 00:07:19]. Dan: Yeah, absolutely that's right. So lots and lots of antibiotics, I'd get better. I'd push my body a bit, the infections would return to the point where there was clear and overt infection. Not knowing anything about herbal protocols or functional medicine or naturopathy or anything of that kind of world at this stage, but it was very much a long road to try to undo that vicious cycle and get out of that loop? And incorporating things like Sage is talking about with diet and lifestyle and cutting the alcohol and the sugars out, you know. Optimizing vitamin D status and restoring the microbiome. So it was definitely one of those things that didn't go away overnight, and I think that's really important to drill into the listeners as well is that once you get traction with something like candida you really need to set up a lifestyle that facilitates long-term resistance against that so that these opportunistic organisms can't take back over. Mason: Candida's such an interesting one. The level of symptoms that arise from a chronic infection are so vast, and it's one of those ones where if you read the list you go, my gosh; I don't know if that list is very useful because there's so many other infections or deficiencies that can give rise to it. But then there are, of course, some specifics. And so looking at the list, you've got chronic fatigue, brain fog, digestive issues. Then when you start getting down a little bit more the reoccurring yeast infections, oral thrush. Even going into sinus infection, you can start seeing candida is being implicated when there's food allergies, when there's intolerance. Of course, dead giveaway is fungal infections on the skin, within the nails especially within the feet, and then a weak immune system. Quite often is it a chicken or an egg, you know? You can see that when there is weak immunity, especially when you see medications in particular like antibiotics and chemotherapy, and then hormone disrupters like hormone replacement therapy ... what is it? Corticosteroids, then? Am I saying that right? Dan: That's right, yeah. Immunosuppressants, corticosteroid-based medications because they're basically squashing the immune response, which, although ameliorate symptoms, allows these guys to take an even stronger hold. Mason: Mm. Oh and then you even see joint pain and definitely the alteration of moods coming about from candida. And so we go, okay. Unless you've got some of the telltales, like reoccurring thrush, fungal thrush in the mouth and fungal infection coming up on the skin, how do you clinically hone in on a diagnosis that in fact we do have candida cells proliferating in excess in the body? Dan: Is that question directed at me, Mason? Just to clarify? Mason: It is, and I will just make ... And I don't think you have clinic, Sage. I don't know maybe you didn't know that Dan. Sage: No, no clinic for me. So if I hear the clinically word in there just [inaudible 00:10:22]. Dan: Yeah, so to answer that question. That's a really good question, Mase, to really sort of hit on the head in the forefront. I think with an issue like candida it's very, very rare that I see that alone. What I usually find is that that's there in concert with just a good old dysbiosis where you'll see bacterial pathogens that are overgrown, you may or may not see parasites as well. So I don't think I've ever seen just one clean cut, pure case of candida without all that going on with some sort of viral load or bacterial imbalance. And so what we find is, is that the best kind of treatment is not just to isolate the yeast in this case and attack the yeast. It's to nurture that whole ecosystem, to treat it like an ecosystem where you're setting up a new environment basically, to where it's not conducive for it to thrive, which as we say does incorporate diet, lifestyle, herbs and the whole concert and symphony of things. Dan: But in terms of testing, you can do blood testing for antibodies to see if the immune system has actually seen the candida albicans and made antibodies against it from the base cells? The only downside to a test like that is that you don't whether the immune system has made those antibodies 10 years ago or if it's happening right now and that's where the symptoms really need to guide you. If there's overt signs of candida as is like on the tongue, the toenail, the respiratory issues and what not, then you've got more of a case for that so that's where usually doing the stool test and looking at candida markers in combination with that blood is a really good way to back that up. Because if you're seeing it on both, if you're seeing it in the stool, antibodies, then you've got quite a good case for it being currently present. And in that case, you know, obviously, you want to make the protocol more specific to yeast in that case. Mason: Sage, how do you go about this? Because I completely ... I like the fact that I've got access to Dan's knowledge and can get a little bit more specific, and I know you recommend this a lot, in getting some testing, getting some panels done so you're not just, like, shooting in the dark. But how do you, dare I say kind of like, I know I can definitely say that I come from a more folky perspective when it comes to gentle diagnosis? But from your perspective how do you go about that in really identifying that candida is in fact present? Sage: Yeah, I don't know exactly what your health care system is like in Australia, but I know here in the US it's expensive to do lots of testing. Very often things will not be covered by insurance so you'll have to pay them out of pocket, so I always find it's really nice to be able to at least somewhat get a little bit of progress in terms of a self-diagnosis before you go investing in testing so at least you know what tests to go do, so you don't have to spend thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. Because it can get real expensive. Sage: So with candida, as you mentioned, you're looking at a lot of symptoms in terms of recurring infections, oral thrush, fungal issues. And then it's a combination of looking at your symptoms and then looking at your history in terms of antibiotic use. If you've had extended use of antibiotics, especially if it's for two weeks or more in the past, your odds are going to be pretty high that at some point candida has taken a good foothold in your system and started to really proliferate beyond the natural levels that you'd find. Candida at small levels is actually a good part of a healthy microbiome, good for nutrient absorption and beneficial in that way. But when things are thrown out of balance you're going to get in a lot of trouble. Sage: So there's many really good questionnaires up there online that people can do just to get an initial idea, just to get a rough feel? Then from there you can progress to testing, which I think is incredibly important. If you can afford it, whether it's this kind of testing or whether you're looking at your thyroid or hormones, rather than just experimenting without data indefinitely and maybe five years from now you finally figure out what's really going on. Save yourself a ton of time and a lot of trouble and probably save yourself money in the long run in terms of being able to spend money on the right supplements and herbs to help you out, and foods, rather than dealing with misdiagnoses for an extended period of time. Mason: Well let's say just getting to the food here. Often we know, that yeah we've had a look at kind of the pharmaceutical angle, the antibiotics especially. Especially going in and nailing the microbiome and causing our ability to actually create the environment where we can naturally regulate healthy levels of this, this and candida cells being within the body. Let's have a look at the food that you see as being an accumulative force or an aggravator, that leave our organ function, immune function, the microbiome function to getting to the point that candida can actually take hold. What are the, what are these nasty ones or excessive ones that get nasty when they're excessive? Sage: Yeah I think it is many things that happen in conjunction. Probably, if you had never taken antibiotics, and you've got a really strong immune system, you could deal with having some of the wrong foods coming into the body, right? Even if you never did antibiotics, but you're having tons of sugar, but your immune system's really strong ancestrally? Maybe you're okay and maybe you can pull it off. Or if you're having lots of sugar and in combination you're having, say, ground mushrooms, like culinary mushrooms that haven't been properly cleaned and tend to be very contaminated and nasty. And these are different from tree mushrooms, I want to be real clear about the distinction- Mason: I'm going to leave a lot of time for us to get into that distinction, thanks for bringing that up so when we- Sage: Yeah yeah. So we'll come back to that a little bit later. Patience everybody, we'll get there. Mason: Patience, you mushroom fiends! Sage: Depending on the individual, right? Because everybody's got a bit of a different setup in terms of the microbiome and adjusted powers, but for a lot of people I think also: poor food combining. Especially having lots of, like, leafy greens? That take time to digest and they're very fibrous? And combining that with really sugary starchy fruit. I've found that for a lot of people the fruit wants to burn up fast and move through, and it's like rocket fuel. But then you have, you know. It's like a Ferrari on a freeway, wants to go, doesn't like being driven slowly. And then you have these green leafy vegetables that take time to digest, they're very nutritious, they're like a big rig carrying lots of, you know, nutrition on them and fiber and what not. And they slow down the traffic, and the Ferrari is getting into road rage. It's like it develops into a situation where it's a ripe breeding ground for proliferation as things start to ferment in there. Sage: So that could also be a situation that, while it may not specifically cause, it wouldn't be a root source of candida? It would not be supportive or helpful if it was something that you were dealing with. Mason: Mm. Love it. Hey Dan what about you, in terms of dietary lifestyle factors that are really going to come in and, you know, if ... I like what you said there, Sage. There's going to be different constitutions at work here. You're going to have an ancestral ... It might be the difference being breastfed or not being breastfed, in terms of whether your immune system is strong or just ancestrally whether you've got that strong gene expression within the immune system, and then acknowledging that. Because long-term, I think you've definitely seen it over in LA, I definitely have here in the health, same way. You almost get to a paranoia of candida becoming crippling to your lifestyle. Is that something you see happening a lot? Sage? Sage: A little bit. It's not people, the awareness of it in the community is not as strong, I would say, as it was in like, 2011, 2012? There was- Mason: Glory days. Sage: ... back then? You know, these trends and focuses always kind of come and go. I don't know, it's weird because it's still as much an issue as ever, but people kind of feel the need to talk about something new, so they can sell new books and post new videos. So. As we move more further beyond some of the basics than we really need to, the solution was often right at hand. Mason: Yeah, very funny. And I agree. I think candida is having a PR nightmare right now. I think- Sage: [SIBO 00:18:45] has stolen all the attention from it. Mason: Yeah. And so Dan what's your take on this? Dietarily, lifestyle-wise, what are the conditions that you see as precursor to, especially if someone has the constitution that is ripe for the picking for candida being an issue. What do you see those being? Dan: I completely agree with Sage, and I think I'd add on to that what I find really prevalent is when people's circadian rhythms are out? When they're using, you know, dietary sources to jack up their adrenal response. So caffeine, you know, refined sugar obviously. Nailing the circadian rhythms and leaving space between meals sounds really, really simple, but it is quite pivotal when you're dealing with any sort of dysbiotic environment when it comes to the gut, or the respiratory system, or any immune suppression. Getting the circadian rhythms locked in and normalizing the nervous system, and the adrenal response is huge. Dan: Because if you think about it, if you've got fire going on in that digestive system or anywhere in the body that's of a yeast or a general viral origin or whatever, your adrenals are seeing that and are constantly trying to put out those flames with a fire extinguisher, hence the adrenal fatigue phenomena. So normalizing those rhythms and supporting the adrenals can't be understated. Mason: Yeah, I would definitely attest to that. I mean, we've spoken about ... I think I've spoken to both of you previously on the podcast talking about digestion in case people aren't realizing digestion has a huge part to play with candida albicans. Especially from a [Daoist 00:20:29] perspective when you start seeing weak spleen Chi. Mason: That can really be the feeding ground from a triple burner perspective. That middle burner really emerging with whether it's just dampness or weakness within the spleen and therefore that whole spleen and digestive network through the stomach, then allowing strong digestive function, strong governance of your bacterial levels. What we see there is that can be the catalyst to then going down into the lower burner where we see damp heat emerge, and we start seeing yeast infections within, basically throughout the entire sexual organ system. And then also moving from that middle burner to the upper burner, where we see heat and fire through the lungs with all those allergies and all those respiratory issues and through the heart as well. Mason: So basically I'm going to pause it there because I think if I open up that can of worms and make a distinct ... in these treatment protocols it's going to take us in a completely other direction. Mason: But there's a few things then that you were touChing on that I want to leapfrog off, and that was definitely the Jing and exhaustion aspect here. You talked about the fact that, I like seeing the Jing as the pilot light for digestion. If you are exhausted, if you're adrenally exhausted, if you're leaking that essence, if you're relying on coffee, if you're mentally stressed and you're in emotional patterns that continue to make you, you know. Those things that make you emotionally excessive. You're going to see that you don't have the foundations and roots within your body, within the core energy centers of the kidneys to really stabilize you. And to that, you're going to see a thorough endocrine disruption go on at that stage, because you are overly adrenalized. And you can't produce natural cortisol, you can't get down to, like you have to rely on these cortisone creams and all that kind of stuff. But then at the same time you're not going to be able to lead to that real healthy sex organ function. Mason: And so, basically, that core is ... You see that consistently, I do as well, Sage, where that exhaustive, gene-depleting lifestyle doesn't allow for the pilot light to go on so that the spleen can actually turn on that fire and appropriately- Dan: It can probably become, I think it can really become a vicious cycle, because with the candida, it's creating higher levels of permeability of digestive lining. So you're getting, essentially leaky gut, and this is releasing bits of food and digestive materials into the bloodstream, which is causing inflammation and autoimmunity. But it's also releasing the toxins, which are being produced by the candida. Its own, basically the candida poo being released throughout your body. Dan: So now you've got systemic inflammation firing away, and that is going to be a major leak of Jing. So that in itself is depleting the adrenals, and it's a vicious cycle because okay now your adrenals are depleted, now you can't fuel your immune system because you're experiencing exhaustion, and the candida can even grow further. And it's really unfortunate. But at the same time if you can get in there with a little bit of action and start making some moves on it, you can slow down that cycle and start to spin it back. Mason: Well let's start here, in terms of looking at treatment. Once we've identified that perhaps we have an environment, and as Dan was saying: you're not going to be able to just isolate candida. There's most likely going to be a number of coinfections, and you're definitely going to see, I'm sure you're going to see a bunch of worms of various types being present at that time because we're going to see a repressed immune function. But starting off the bat, quite often we're looking at removing the excessive candida from the body, cleaning up the diet, and I guess loosely saying this is going to be a cleansing or cleaning aspect of the protocol. Mason: Now at this point, I'd like to get both your two cents. We'll start with Sage. Do you like to bring in, of course lifestyle factors, and I think it's obvious that are going to reduce stress, but do you like to bring in herbs or other practices to, for lack of a better word, tone our ability to store and restore Jing? Sage: Yeah, of course. So naturally, you and I and I bet Dan is into these as well, you want to look at your top Jing-building herbs. Things like He Shou Wu, Cordyceps, [inaudible 00:24:58], Rehmannia, Morinda. And so I think building that base of core vitality is an essential component of any healing program, basically. Because without that your body just does not have the energy and the safety. When you're in such a Jing-vulnerable state? And you're prepared to run out of fuel and die at just about any moment? Your body is afraid and not going to divert resources to dealing with your fungal issues because it's just concerned with not, like, crashing and burning and that being the end of the show. Sage: So absolutely, building the Jing is essential, so you can build ... you're kind of simultaneously wanting to build the Jing, and address the candida itself to stop the Jing leak, and then you can start improving at like, twice as fast. Mason: And Dan, what's your take on that? Dan: Yeah. 100%. Nervous system and adrenal support is absolutely necessity initially before you, I think before you even go in thinking about using the big guns to break up the biofilms and reduce the candida load with strong antimicrobials, which are all part of the protocol. But it really depends on the person in front of you to. So for example, if I've got someone who's burning the candle at both ends, doing the 75-hour work week, and only wants to take antimicrobials it's like, ha ha. No, no, no, no, no. We have to nail the lifestyle first. That is absolutely essential. And so sleep, blue lights, EMFs, all of that stuff comes into it. Diet, you have to have the foundations ready and ripe for the body to go, aha! Now I can enter healing mode, now I can switch over to parasympathetic. Because the foundations are there. Dan: What I often do in those cases, too, with someone who is really on this end of the spectrum and is part of that go-go-go lifestyle? Is just little simple tweaks, like green tea. So instead of coffee? It's green tea. It's anti-strep, it's anti-candida, it boosts [inaudible 00:26:58] bacteria, it's antioxidant, it's lymphatic. So little tweaks like that. You know, removing the sugars. You sort of stage it out. Dan: Then you might bring in a probiotic, and you'll use a strain which has been shown to reduce fungal load and boost natural killer cells and various components of the immune system. And you step it up. And you step it up. And you step it up. And you carefully watch for reactions, because that's another part of it with any sort of protocol where you are reducing microbial load, because you are obviously going to run into potential detoxification issues if that person's ability to clear out these metabolites can't keep up with the front end. So that's something that you really have to be careful navigating. Dan: And like Sage said earlier, this can take a long time, people. This can take, if it's been a long time it can be up to one or two years. And then once you're there to have to maintain where you've got to, and in my case I got there a long time and ended up, a little while later, in a moldy apartment over on the northern beaches and it all went out the window. Those things come up, so you have to be really on to the environmental side of it too. Mason: Okay, and let's just, before we move on, I want to touch on the nervous system and supporting the nervous system to getting into that parasympathetic state so we can actually get to resting, digesting, and healing. Some of your favorite methods, distinctions whether they use technologies or whether they be something simple that we can access through nature. Dan: Yeah, nice one. So I'm sure we've touched on it before Mason, but just barefoot earthing. Getting back into nature, a very simple thing to do. Slowing the breathing down, doing diaphragmatic breathing, not breathing shallowly from the chest. And doing that as often as possible, making that really, really priority. I often team that up with the blue light blockers, which you can get now. Get people to slap those on at like 7 PM at night every night leading up to bed. SwitChing off wifi at night, that's really good for the nervous system. Dan: So all these little tweaks to get you over from fight-or-flight over to the parasympathetic side of the nervous system. You can also pair that up with a few gentle botanicals like chamomile, passionflower, and Reishi mushroom for example. That trio works fantastic. Mason: Yeah, like a beautiful moon milk at night, maybe with a bit of a ... well I like doing a chamomile, lavender infusion within the milk there, been doing that for retreaters recently and getting those Reishis in there. Beautiful nightcap. Mason: Sage, I know there's like a crazy crossover of what you do and love and recommend there, with the breath and the barefoot and getting the blue light out. Sage, one thing I'm going to have to do and put in the notes here is get the instructions on how people can completely get the blue light off their phone. Everyone's like, oh night mode. It's like, no, no, no; I'm like, Sage has got this beautiful hack for getting all the blue light out. Sage: Deep in the settings you can modify it so it glows all red at night, and you can still fully text and stuff. It gets weird if you're trying to, like, check out Chicks on Instagram? Because they don't look good. Mason: And that's you, man. I imagine it gets weird for you all night. AnnaBlanca's like, "What you doing?" Mason: "No I'm just doing some, looking at like, photography development, old school style, so weird." Sage: But other than that, it's great to be able to flip on all red at night, and it's just, everything in your phone, the only colors are red and black, for everything. And there's a shortcut you can set up where all you have to do, and I'm not sure exactly how this goes on with iPhone X and past that where there's no home button anymore. But with the older ones you just tap the home button three times for the shortcut, and it'll put it right into the red. So it's easy to turn on and off, so it's great. And then even for some random reason you need to check the time in the middle of the night, it's all red, so. It's ideal not to use it at all, but if you have to look then at least you're not messing up your melatonin levels and shocking your system in the middle of the night. Sage: And other things that I like for getting into that parasympathetic state is, Reishi mushroom has been mentioned. Ashwagandha is another one of my absolute favorites because it works on so many aspects of health that people are struggling with these days. Mason: It goes right in that moon milk as well, the Ashwagandha and Reishi with that infusion. Oh man, it's so good. Sage: And then also, infrared saunas are great to put you back in that parasympathetic- Mason: Oh yeah. Sage: ... state because you're being surrounded by the infrared, which is that heat signature that we as humans give off. That's why you look through night vision infrared goggles, and you see people. So if you think back, and this is a theory my dad first shared with me, and this is not scientifically based, really; it's just a theory, and you see if it resonates with you. But if you look back at when the last time was that you were fully surrounded with infrared heat in somewhat of a dark and fully safe place was in your mother's womb. Mason: Oh, true. Sage: And so it is getting you back to that place of being fully provided for, fully safe, everything take care of and everything's okay, all you need to do is Chill out. Mason: And you know what I'd probably put there, like, putting those ocean sounds on. Like over when Tahnee was pregnant we were listening to the placenta, and it had this woosh, woosh. So getting those sounds in there at the same time, those ocean sounds while you're meditating in that infrared sauna. And we should put some links, just here on this call we've got some incredible resources for people to go and get a clear light sauna. I mean, your folks offer them over there in the States, and we're both friends with Sebastian here who owns the New Zealand, Australian, and European and UK branch, so basically no matter where you are in the world we're going to be able to basically get you hooked up in- Sage: We've got the connections [inaudible 00:32:52]. Mason: Yeah, we've got the connections. We'll put some links in though depending on which continent you're on and give you some ... you know. Just give them the old, Sage and Mason ... and Dan. Well let's throw Dan in there as well. Sage, Mason and Dan sent me. So get you hooked up because I agree that is one of the absolute, ultimate technologies, having an infrared sauna in my house for getting the nervous system toned up. And we could just do a podcast on that, I'm sure. Mason: Now let's start- Sage: Real quick, if you don't mind, just to finish on the nervous system. I'm a huge fan of the Wim Hof method for this. Breathing and the super oxygenation? For strengthening the nervous system and gently building up to cold exposure. People get intimidated because they see people do it on Instagram in the beginning, but it's just like lifting weights. You train your nervous system, you don't jump in and do something super challenging, you know? Go to try to bench press 200 kilos on your first time going to the gym. Sage: You do the 30 seconds of cold water at the end of a hot shower or after taking a sauna, when it's not going to be that crazy. And from there you gently build up. Eventually you're doing 10 minutes of a cold shower, or you're doing a five or ten minute ice bath and it's not that big of a deal anymore because you built up to it at a sustainable level. Of course if you hit it too hard in the beginning, that's why people catch a cold. Their nervous system's weak and it can't handle being out in the cold if they hit it all at once, and it overwhelms them. It's like if you try to do too much at the gym, you're going to injure yourself, it happens. So I think that is one of the most incredible tools that I've experienced, and now that I've been doing it for, almost four years. And it's been, yeah. So powerful for me. Mason: Yeah and I think that's a good distinction there because when you look at the branding and what works is seeing Wim walk up and down in his shorts, and it's covered in snow. And basically it's very important for us to remember that these aren't systems of fanaticism. These are systems of appropriateness for you to build that core function. So I definitely throw my support behind that. Wim's a great guy and also for those of you that are maybe wanting to go even deeper through a process with your breath, if that might seem a little bit unobtainable? I'll also put a link, um, Benny Fergusson, my friend, the Movement Monk, has a really amazing, gentle breathwork practice that is very intricate and very much takes into account these, the mental and physical unification that's going to have to go throughout that process. Mason: So you've got lots of resources there, everyone, for getting that nervous system toned. Then we start moving into how are we going to get ... We've got the baseline. We've got building back our Jing, getting our nervous system toned, and I think we've kind of talked about it's the bread and butter. And maybe bread isn't the best example here because it's got the yeast raising factors, that are actually going to be implicated when it comes to candida. Sage: Non-starchy, gluten-free bread and butter. Mason: Mm, mm. Grass-fed butter. Sage: There you go. Mason: Basically now I want to get into where we're getting into the clearing now. Getting into the clearing, starting to bring some herbals, start bringing in some compounds that are going to start building back our microbiome, start countering this intense leaky gut that we can start seeing and that permeability that we've already touched on. Sage, you're starting out. What are your pillars for starting to clear the body and get it back on track in those initial stages, which may be for three months or a year. Sage: Yeah, yeah. It is a bit of a journey, and that was the most intimidating thing to me in the beginning that actually stopped me from starting for a couple of years, after I kind of knew I was going to have to do this. But I was super intimidated by the fact that I was really going to have to be serious about cutting down on carbs and sugar for anywhere from six months to two years, and I wanted to figure out any other way. But in the end it came back to this: you've got to deal with these basic things. Sage: So you really want to minimize carbs, cut out all forms of sugar, because all of this is beating the candida. Eventually, one day, you will be able to bring it back in moderate amounts, as you've rebuilt your whole gut microbiome. But for now, you really want to cut it down. And you're going to see tremendous ancillary benefits from this, aside from just the candida? You're going to be able to start burning ketones as a fuel source and start burning fat, so you're probably going to experience some great weight loss, some people are probably going to enjoy that. And when you're burning these ketones for fuel and burning fat as fuel, healthy fats, you're able to produce far more ATP, which is your pure cellular energy, than when you're burning glucose as fuel. So you're going to have a lot better energy, once you transition. Sage: It can be a little challenging as your body first is transitioning to burning fat as fuel. But once you get there it's pretty amazing. And you'll learn to get creative with stevia and things like this that can still give you the pleasure of sweetness in your life, you don't have to say goodbye to that. There's many ways, we put tons of recipes on this stuff on our YouTube channel. And so that's the first step, is cutting out all these things that are feeding the candida. Sage: And then, what are you going to go after it with? One of the best that I found was Pau D'arco tea. It's one of the most powerful, natural, antifungal herbs coming out of the Amazon. You can make a really nice tea with that, it goes great as the base of any hot elixir, or you could just be sipping it on its own, all the time. And then two of the other very powerful herbs for me, the tonics that we all know and love are Reishi mushroom and Chaga. Sage: Chaga for me was especially impactful. I was doing some nice tinctures and capsules but where I really started experiencing the benefits of it was when I would get the raw chunks of Chaga mushroom and cook them for three hours into a real strong water extraction, freeze it overnight so that the water gets inside the cell walls, these cell's walls that are super hard that you can't digest? Actually busts them open as it freezes, then boil it again the next day and make it super strong, and I was getting into drinking it regularly. That was a huge assist in my journey against candida. Mason: So ... Yeah, go for it. Sage: Oh I'm just getting on a roll. Mason: So, well actually before. I want to keep you going, but I just want to comment on two things there and Dan, get your two cents in. Mason: That's a really appropriate use of the ketogenic diet. I really like ketogenesis as a distinction in what's ... in a way to possibly get us losing weight that's excessive and actually shouldn't be there? And also getting our mitochondria rocking to the extent that we can, for a time, get off sugars and get into this state where our metabolism can get a bit of a reset and it's a little bit of a breath of fresh air for our immune system for a time as well. Rather than just, go after it, get shredded, nonstop, don't ever not be keto. Mason: I don't know what your sense of that is, but we've discussed it a couple of times on the podcast and it's come up with one of Tahnee's conversations with a practitioner in terms of like, for women. An appropriate time to use ketogenesis and when it's not actually that useful? And we've spoken about it, Dan, in terms of what that excessive fat can do to go and contribute it over too much of a long period to gut permeability thanks to the off-gassing that that excessive fat gives through the bacteria. Mason: But I just wanted to really like ... I like that distinction that you just made there, Sage, I think that's for most people as casting a wide net. That seems like a sensible time to be using ketogenesis. Sage: Yeah. I think, you know there are anti-aging benefits of it in terms of minimizing glycation and things of that nature. And I think it's a transition diet, something you do for a time period to really change your inner terrain and external appearance and everything. And then probably long-term more of a cyclical ketogenic diet is probably the more beneficial thing, where you go in for a bit and out for a bit. And it's more of a natural flow. Mason: And of course, Pau D'arco. I think we're three massive Pau D'arco fans, coming from the lapacho tree in the Amazon. Heavily a part of my healing protocol. I hit it for probably a couple of years I had it constant rotation in strong amounts before it was time for me to then cycle off. Sage: You get to where you don't even want to think about it anymore. Just, you hit a point where, okay. I've had enough, I'm good. Mason: Yeah, I've had it absolutely enough. And that is, I think that's a really appropriate way to let your body govern, you know? Because of course, with any herb, especially a herb that has strong antifungal, antimicrobial actions, you're going to want to cycle off that at some point. Because your body's going to want to have the breathing room to go and do its thing and regulate. Mason: I just wanted to throw my support behind those. Pau D'arco had such an incredible, such an incredible impact on me moving ... I don't think I even mentioned the fact that I did, that was my catalyst, was candida, in getting into this. I was having fungal eruptions on my skin and a suppressed immune system. I've told the story I think on the podcast a couple of times, but it was definitely for me likewise, that combination of Chaga mushroom and Reishi mushroom, but then I'd use a base of Pau D'arco tea, and that's a very simple herbal approach. Mason: Then I had He Shou Wu coming in and nourishing my kidneys in the beginning, and that was the beginnings for me. Getting off the, of course I got off gluten, I got off the grains. I got off the conventional western diet, which is very suppressive to the spleen Chi and it definitely was to mine, and it was really suppressing my digestive capacity. And I was able to bounce back pretty quick, especially with those three primary herbs, the two mushies, and the Pau D'arco bark, and then the He Shou Wu coming in and supporting. Mason: And after I want to hear all your awesome rambling Sage, but I want to let everyone know that after this we're going to dive into the mushies. Sage: Yeah, so those are my first two pillars really, is starve the candida and get in the beneficial herbs that are going to help clean things up in there. And then you've cleared it out, and what are you going to put in there? You're not just going to leave a blank slate and let the candida come back in all over again like you did with antibiotics. You messed up once, don't do it again. So now, we want to introduce really great bacteria into the gut. So it's good to be taking some probiotics. Sage: I'm really a fan of taking spore based probiotics, or ones that are shown to have efficacy in actually making it through and setting up shop in the gut, rather than being killed off somewhere higher up? Maybe in the stomach by digestive acids and things like that? SO rather than just looking at the number of colony forming units, which is what's advertised, you actually have to do a little deeper digging to see if the company's actually had testing done, to show the level of survivability, which makes a huge, huge difference. You can have a trillion-strain probiotic formula that all gets killed off in the gut. You don't get anything from it, or you can have a 30 billion and all 30 billion survive and make it through and set up shop and are doing all sorts of work for you. So it really makes a big difference, whether it's surviving or not. Sage: And then getting on fermented foods, was a big part for me. Tons of sauerkraut, fermented vegetables ... Drinking coconut water kefir was really supportive for me, and yeah. That's the fermented side of things, and those for me were the three main pillars. Sage: You know a few other herbs that were beneficial were, like occasionally using a aged kyolic garlic extract was also supportive for me. One time early on I heard someone say, oh yeah you should juice a whole head of raw garlic. Candida will freak out about that. Holy crap, I had the worst burn, I pretty much gave myself an ulcer in the stomach from that. So don't juice a whole head of raw garlic and try drinking that. It's not a good idea. Learn from my mistake. Mason: Yeah, you lose your friends, you lose your intestinal lining. Sage: It was painful, man. Mason: That's so good. But hey, I think it's awesome that everyone can learn from our fanatical mistakes. Because I've definitely gone down that road. Mason: Yeah, I love it. I love that it's simple, I love that it's methodical, I think that it's really ... Over the years I've seen that same combination coming up again an again and again when you go through all the complexity and all the confusion in terms of what you should and shouldn't be eating and drinking, basically these are the core pillars in terms of what's going to get you from A to B in terms of healing as soon as possible. You mentioned Body Ecology, I think that's really ... I think you kind of consider that the Bible of the anti-candida diet, is that right? Sage: Yeah. It's a great place for anyone who's thinking they might be dealing with a candida issue to start out and get a good set of basic information and approaches and what foods can be beneficial and what not. Because they'll get a taste of things, and a feel of things I think from listening to us today and get some really good ideas. But it's good to have a kind of a manual, that you can really pore through and refer to and can address it from all sides. SO I highly recommend it to anyone that things they may be dealing with candida. Read the Body Ecology Diet book. Mason: Love it bro. Mason: Dan, what's your take? When you're entering into this what foods are you bringing in, what foods are you eliminating, are there any distinctions in terms of any particular constitutional elements that you like to take into account? Dan: Yeah, definitely and I'm one of those practitioners where, I probably do the least amount of dietary manipulation compared to a lot of practitioners. What I typically do is, apart from the obvious things, things such as alcohol, excessive caffeine use, refined sugars. Usually if we can take dairy and gluten-containing grains out of the diet and lower the amount of starches? I generally don't do too much above and beyond that in the initial stages. A, because of the amount that it puts onto the patient who is already compromised to some degree under this burden of stress, and so we just want to take out those really common sort of insults to allow the inflammation to kind of just settle down in the gut. Dan: But I think probably what we perhaps should've mentioned a little bit earlier is just movement and sweating, and we talked about sauna of course. But sunlight and movement are massive for candida. When I treat people that have chronic yeast issues, they're different people when you consider how they're presentation looks in winter compared to summer. And that I attribute largely to the upgrade they get from their immune system when their vitamin D level are optimized? Because we know that with optimized vitamin D levels we're producing higher amounts of our body's own antimicrobial substances like [inaudible 00:47:54]. Which has been shown to be stronger than many, many, many botanicals when tested in terms of destructing biofilms and getting viral load and bacterial load down and so forth. Dan: Movement's huge. You know lymphatic detoxification, that's massive as well. To ensure the person is moving and sweating and getting adequate sunlight. Dry skin brushing, that's effective as well. But at particular sort of point in treatment I like to then depending on the person's constitution introduce some gentle biofilm destructors as well. It's one thing to bring in antifungal herbs, but if the immune system can't see them, the shell of these critters isn't cracked up to allow their contents to be exposed to these botanicals or our immune system, then we're kind of not getting as much bang for our buck. So compounds like N-Acetyl Cysteine, absolutely brilliant for breaking up biofilm, really good for supporting the liver as well and glutathione production, which is our body's master antioxidant and you want prime levels of that anytime you're doing any sort of changes to the gut ecosystem or detoxification. The good old, Pau D'arco and cat's claw tea combo I found to be personally really successful and I think that's probably one of the first things you and I ever jammed about back at the markets years ago. Mason: Yeah man. For sure, and I think I can attest to Sage's love for cat's claw, una de gato, as well. Everyone's like, oh my gosh you guys are eating cat's claws? It's just a bark, everybody. I've got to just mention that. Sage: [inaudible 00:49:31]. Mason: I get that every now and then. Mason: Yeah sorry Dan, I had to get that little joke in there. Dan: Yeah, absolutely. Definitely. So, yeah. In addition to that, pomegranate I have found to be just absolutely magnificent when it comes to any pathogenic overgrowth. I can't speak highly enough about that particular herb. I haven't found any other botanicals that simultaneously lower things like bacteria and candida, whilst up-regulating good bacteria at the same time. So pomegranate tincture is definitely going into the protocol for anyone who has any sot of fungal overgrowth. Dan: Apart from that, once you're doing the biofilm work, the person's moving and sweating, the vitamin D is optimized, and the dietary foundations are on point, you do have to think about the liver and all the metabolites that you're breaking down. Because the liver ultimately has the job of buffering and keeping the oil clean. And again, that feeds back into using things like N-Acetyl Cysteine, Alpha-Lipoic Acid, good old and St. Mary's Thistle, burdock, dandelion root just as teas can be really pivotal as well. Dan: Just, garbage in, garbage out. Just get people thinking about the more you're killing off, and the debris you're producing that has to be exiting the system because you can get that enterohepatic recirculation, and you don't want that, because the bugs will just set up shop in a different area of the body. Mason: So can I, I'm just going to before we move on. I just really want to bring a summary to this aspect of treatment, where we've identified that perhaps we do have an overgrowth of candida. We get into the tweakings of the diet, whether we do it gently, and I would agree that it's a psychological conversation of whether someone's going to go down the hardcore, phase 2 Body Ecology when it's like no sugars whatsoever. Maybe some green apple, I think at this stage- Sage: It's Phase One, Full Intensity. And then Phase Two is, like, gentler as you've gotten better. Yeah. Phase One is the Full Intensity. Mason: And also just making distinct what Dan was saying there, what are the core things that I'd be introducing if they're in a state where it's just not possible for them to make those changes? And that would be, again, whether it's going to work or not, these are ... this is what everyone's going to have to have that real dance within themselves, I think that's safe to say, and what's possible for you. And then you're going to have to manage your expectations with that. And as you said, Dan, I don't know, what were you saying dietarily with your core? Refined grains, excessive sugars, definitely getting off processed sugars, I think that's ... if you're on processed sugars you're going to basically be shooting yourself in the candida foot every single time you try to jump at him. Mason: So we've got that aspect, you know? Possibly looking at ketogenesis for a particular time, and so basically we've got that dietary component. Within talking, within a herbal sense and a treatment sense of getting our nervous system really toned and getting us in a calm place where our body can actually heal, getting our foundations of our Jing through Jing herbs. Like you mentioned, He Shou Wu, Rehmannia, Cordyceps, Eucommia Bark, and I think you mentioned Cistanche as well, Sage, and also you're going to get a good crossover there. And you don't have to have all of these, you know. You pick your herb, and Ashwagandha is also a beautiful one that's going to have those jewel effects on the nervous system and on the kidneys. Mason: Then we've gone to talk about, right. What herbs are we starting to include and what supplements are we starting to include to actually start clearing these out. Medicinal mushrooms we're going to go into next, but that's a huge aspect of building up basically the Jing of the immune system, which is always implicated. I can definitely always ... Definitely always, that's never the case. But I can generally say that you're going to see an immune suppression when it comes to candida. I think that's a fair thing to say, would you guys agree? Sage: Absolutely. Because you're very vulnerable to other things happening and taking place. Mason: Absolutely. So then we see both your suggestions in terms of what we're going to be getting coming in. We're going to get the herbs like Pau D'arco, the Chagas, the Reishis, Maitakes, and turkey tails are always going to be wonderful bringing those in to fortify the immune system. And you've talked about N-Acetyl Cysteine and started talking about this other aspect of this phase, which Sage, I know you're all over. And now that we're here Dan I really appreciate you bringing up the biofilms, the ability for us to actually break down. I don't know where you're atin terms of just describing what these biofilms actually are. I know there's a bit of calcification involved in them and I know the immune system especially has a hard time identifying that there is something there behind this little encasing, or this little barnacle, in which the infection lies beneath. It's one of ... Its survival, opportunistic mechanisms to not become identified by the immune system. Mason: And at that time so I just want to talk just a little bit more on that stage within this protocol, of actually knocking out these biofilms so our immune system can start getting this candida infection under control. So I just want to reiterate: your favorites for breaking down these biofilms, and then I just want to have another quick little conversation around opening up detox channels, supporting liver, and also my favorite, including binders, like clays within the diet to help moving these things out. And then also inclusive in this conversation is going to be, the saunas. We don't have to go too much further into it, but if you've got that going on, you're going to be definitely opening up that channel of detoxification through the skin. Mason: So in terms of knocking out these biofilms, your faves Dan? Dan: Pomegranate first and foremost. N-Acetyl Cysteine which we mentioned, and another one from the silkworm, Serrapeptase, I'm sure you guys are quite familiar with as well. Sage: Yep, absolutely. Mason: Another big favorite. Dan: Yeah. The only caution with Serrapeptase is long-term, it can ... Let me rewind a little bit. Good bacteria as well do form biofilm, and so there's a concern that long term use of agents like Serrapeptase and N-Acetyl Cysteine can also crack up good biofilms, which you don't want. Mason: Mm. And that's like, it's natural with anything that's a treatment protocol or enzymes therapy, with the Serrapeptase, you want to make sure that you're cycling it and respecting the treatment period, and you're not going in an “altering” the system of the body too long-term. Would you like the use of MSM in there? Have you ever found that useful? Dan: Yeah I do, I do like MSM and that's a big one I'll use in conjunction with this protocol particularly if people have joint-related issues. Which as Sage said, we often see that with candida, these fungal metabolites get passed around and float around through the body. It can cause quite painful and swollen joints and brain fog. That's another thing, with brain fog the components that get broken up with candida compounds actually form acid aldehyde, and that's why you get people who say, I feel like I'm drunk; I'll go to work and I just feel like I'm wasted and I can't think properly; my short-term memory's gone. And that's because of this acid aldehyde that the candida produced. Dan: SO yeah, sorry. Kind of went off on a little tangent there, but- Mason: No it's really funny when you see those news articles of people who they found had so much fermentation going on in the gut they were tested to be drunk and they hadn't had any alcohol at all. So bizarre, but it's true life. Dan: Next thing we know there'll be pulled over and getting breath tested and being fined as having [crosstalk 00:57:19]. Mason: Soon enough. You want to get tested for candida? Get pulled over and the cops [inaudible 00:57:23]. Dan: Yeah, imagine that. Imagine we get to the point that we're really concerned about the immunological health of our population. Random candida testing everybody. Pull over, like, parasite testing, you know? We've just got your back, everyone. Mason: Concerns your driving safety. Sorry Dan. Dan: Do not operate maChinery while candida is present. Mason: Yeah. Dan: But yeah, so to summarize. N-Acetyl Cysteine, Serrapeptase, the pomegranate. Good old green tea. Sounds very boring and we're used to hearing that but that is so, so good for candida in particular. We can talk about things like lauric acid and caprylic acid, they're often good additions to do particularly in those stubborn cases. Dan: The other one I didn't mention is berberine. Berberine is really efficient at cracking up biofilms and getting on top of ... And this is what I love about herbal medicine. It's like we're isolating candida but we know we're going to have a good effect on viruses and bacteria at the same time. So if someone does come in and they've got known candida issues, but they also have [inaudible 00:58:32], we know that using agents like berberine and pomegranate we're hitting both on the same head, if that makes sense. Mason: Mm-hmm (affirmative), mm-hmm (affirmative). Mason: Absolutely. I mean, yeah, it gets a little bit different when you're using herbals rather than isolates. Beautiful list there, Dan. I really like the Serrapeptase- MSM combination for breaking down those biofilms and definitely going to have to get a little bit more into pomegranate, definitely through my support behind the berberine. Mason: Sage, in term

Listen to part two of my private coaching session with Nic Fitzgerald. The lessons I shared with him here are the same ones I would share with you if we could meet face to face. On today’s episode Russell continues his chat with Nick Fitzgerald and gives him a list of seven things he can do to help his business grow. Here are some of the awesome things to look forward to in this episode: What a few things that Nick got close to doing totally right, but missed a few key elements. How Nick can collaborate with others in the Two Comma Club X to be able to grow his customer list. And how Russell went from being a nobody, to having Tony Robbins call him to ask for help and how Nick can use that advice to advance his own business. So listen here to find out what the 7 things are that Nick and anyone else can do to grow a business. ---Transcript--- Hey everybody, welcome to Marketing Secrets podcast. I’m so excited, I’m here on stage right now at the Two Comma Club X event with Mr. Nick Fitzgerald onstage. A year ago I gave a podcast to him about how to make it rain and this is section number two. Now those of you who don’t know, in the last 12 months since I did that podcast he’s been making it rain and he’s been changing his life, his family’s lives, but more importantly, other people’s lives as well. And it’s been really cool, so that’s what we’re going to cover today during this episode of the podcast. So welcome back you guys. I’m here on stage with Nick Fitzgerald, so excited. So I made a list of seven things that if I was to sit in a room with him in front of a whole bunch of people I’d be like, “Hey Nick, you’re doing awesome, but here’s some things to look at that I think will help you a lot with what you’re doing.” So number one, when Nick first kind of started into this movement that he’s trying to create, I don’t know when it was, if you created this before or after. When did you create the Star Wars video? Nick: This was, we talked in July, it was September/October. So a few months later. Russell: How many of you guys have seen his Star Wars video? Okay, I’m so glad. For those who are listening, about 10% of the room raised their hand, the other 90% who are friends and followers and fans of Nick have never seen the Star Wars video. His Star Wars video is his origin story and it is one of the best videos I have ever, by far the best video I’ve seen him do, it is insanely good. It comes, do you want to talk about what happened in the video? It’s insanely good. Nick: So I told the story of, I’m a huge Star Wars nerd, so if you didn’t know that, now you do. When I was young my grandma who lived in the same neighborhood as me, she took me to go see Return of the Jedi in the movie theater and I was such a Star Wars nerd, even at a young age, that when I was playing at the neighbors house, and you know, it’s the 80s, so mom and dad are like, “Nick, come home for dinner.” That kind of thing, I would ignore them. I would not come home until they called me “Luke”. No lie. I would make them call me Luke, or I would ignore them. I would not hear them. Russell: Had I known this in high school I would have teased him relentlessly. Nick: So my grandma took me and I remember going and it was so fun because we took the bus, it was just a fun thing. And we went and I just remember walking in and handing my ticket to the ticket person. And then popcorn and just the smells of everything. And again, this is the 80s so walking in the movie theater; I almost lost a shoe in the sticky soda, {sound effects} going on. I just remember how my feet stuck to the floor and all that stuff. And then just being so excited to see my heroes on the big screen and Dark Vader, I just remember watching it. This is such a silly thing to get emotional about, but you know I remember the emperor and Darth Vader dying and all that stuff. It was just like, ah. It was a perfect day. Sorry sound dude. But it was just a perfect day with my grandma who has always been dear to me. So the purpose of that video, I’d put it off for a long time. I knew I needed to tell my own story if I’m going to be helping somebody else tell theirs. And I put it off for a long time, because working through things, I was afraid that if it sucked, if the story was terrible, if the visuals were crappy, that was a reflection on me and my skills. I had worked on a bazillion Hallmark Christmas movies, you know how they put out like 17 trillion Christmas movies every year, if one of those sucks, no offense, they’re not riveting television. Russell: They all suck. Nick: That wasn’t a reflection on me, I was just doing the lighting or the camera work. I didn’t write the story, it wasn’t my story. But this was me, so I put it off for a long time because I knew if I didn’t execute how I envisioned it, that it would reflect poorly on me, and it would be like I was a fraud. So the purpose of the video, there were three purposes. One to tell a story and get people to connect with me on a personal level. As I told that story here, how many of you remembered your feet sticking to the floor of a movie theater? How many of you, when I talk about the smell of popcorn and that sound, you felt and heard and smelled that. So it was one thing, I wanted people to connect with me and just see that I was just like you. Then I wanted to show that I could make a pretty picture. So I had that and I used my family members as the actors. And then I went and talked about how…and then I wanted to use it to build credibility. I’ve worked on 13 feature films and two television series and shot news for the NBC affiliate and worked in tons of commercials. So I’ve learned from master story tellers and now I want to help other people find and tell their story. And then I showed clips of stories that I tell throughout the years. So that was, I just remember specifically when I finally went and made it live, I made a list of about 20 people, my Dream 100 I guess you could say. I just wanted to send them and be like, “Hey, I made this video. I would love for you to watch it.” And Russell’s on that list. So I sent that out and made it live and then it was just kind of funny, it didn’t go viral, I got like 5000 views in a day, and it was like “whoa!” kind of thing. But it was just one of those things that I knew I needed to tell my story and if I wanted to have any credibility as a story teller, not as a videographer, but as a story teller, being able to help people connect, and connect hearts and build relationships with their audience, I had to knock it out of the park. So that was my attempt at doing that. Russell: And the video’s amazing, for the 10% of the room who saw it, it is amazing. Now my point here for Nick, but also for everyone here, I wrote down, is tell your story too much. Only 10% of the room has ever seen that video or ever heard it. How many of you guys have heard my potato gun story more than a dozen times? Almost the entire room, for those that are listening. Tell your story to the point where you are so sick and tired of telling the story and hearing it, that you just want to kill yourself, and then tell it again. And then tell it again. And then tell it again, because it is amazing. The video is amazing, the story is amazing. How many of you guys feel more connected to him after hearing that story right now? It’s amazing. Tell t he story too much. All of us are going to be like, “I don’t want to hear the story. I don’t want to tell the story again.” You should be telling that story over and over and over again. That video should be showing it. At least once a week you should be following everyone, retargeting ads of that video. That video should be, everyone should see it. You’ve got 5,000 views which is amazing, you should get 5,000 views a day, consistently telling that story, telling that story. Because you’re right, it’s beautiful, it’s amazing and people see that and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, I need that for my business. I need to be able to tell my story the way he told that story, because the connection is flawless.” And I think my biggest thing for you right now, is tell your story more. Tell that thing. You’re telling good stories, but that story, that’s like your linchpin, that’s the thing that if you can tell that, it’s going to keep people connected to you for forever. Anyone who’s seen that video, you have a different level of connection. It’s amazing, it’s shot beautifully. You see his kids looking at the movies, with lights flashing, it’s beautiful. So telling your story more, that’d be the biggest thing. It’s just like, all the time telling that story over and over and over again. That’s number one. Alright, number two, this one’s not so much for you as much for most of everybody else in here, but number two is that energy matters a lot. I’m not talking about, I’m tired during the day. I’m talking about when you are live, or you are talking in front of people, your energy matters a lot. I was hanging out with Dana Derricks, how many of you guys know Dana, our resident goat farmer? By the way, he’s asked every time I mention his name is please not send him anymore goats. He’s gotten like 2 or 3 goats in the last month from all of our friends and family members here in the community. Please stop sending him goats. He loves them but he doesn’t want any more. Anyway, what’s interesting, I was talking to Dana, and he’s like, “Do you know the biggest thing I’ve learned from you?” and I’m like, “No. what?” and I thought it was going to be like dream 100 and things like that. No, the biggest thing that Dana learned from me, he told me, was that energy matters a lot. He’s like, “When I hang out with you, you’re kind of like blah, but when you get on stage you’re like, baaahh!” and I started telling him, the reason why is when I first started this career, in fact, I have my brother right now pulling all the video clips of me from like 12 or 13 years ago, when I had a shaved head and I was awkward like, “Hi, my name is Russell Brunson.” And we’re trying to make this montage of me over 15 years of doing this and how awkward and weird I was, and how it took 8-10 years until I was normal and started growing my hair out. But I’m trying to show that whole montage, but if you look at it like, I was going through that process and the biggest thing I learned is that if I talked to people like this, when you’re on video you sound like this. The very first, I think I’d have an idea and then I’d just do stupid things. So I saw an infomercial, so I’m like I should do an infomercial. So I hired this company to make an infomercial and next thing I know two weeks later I’m in Florida and there’s this host on this show and he’s like the cheesiest cheese ball ever. I’m so embarrassed. He asked me a question and I’m like, “Well, um, you know, duh, duh…” and he’s like, “Whoa, cut, cut, cut.” He’s like, “Dude, holy crap. You have no energy.” I’m like, “No, I feel really good. I have a lot of energy right now.” He’s like, “No, no you don’t understand. When you’re on tv, you have to talk like this to sound normal. If you just talk normal, you sound like you’re asleep.” I’m like, “I don’t know.” So we did this whole infomercial and he’s like all over the top and I’m just like, trying to go a little bit higher and it was awkward. I went back and watched it later, and he sounded completely normal and I looked like I was dead on the road. It was weird. Brandon Fischer, I don’t know if he’s still in the audience, but we did…Brandon’s back here. So four years ago when Clickfunnels first came out we made these videos that when you first signed up we gave away a free t-shirt. How many of you guys remember seeing those videos? I made those videos and then they lasted for like four years, and then we just reshot them last week because it’s like, “Oh wow, the demo video when we’re showing CLickfunnels does not look like Clickfunnels anymore. It’s completely changed in four years.” So Todd’s like, “You have to make a new video.” I’m like, “I don’t want to make a video.’ So finally we made the new videos, recorded them and got them up there and we posted them online, and before we posted them on, I went and watched the old ones, and I watched the old ones and I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is just four years ago, I am so depressing. How did anybody watch this video?” It was bad, right Brandon. It was like painfully bad. I was like, “oh my gosh.” That was just four years ago. Imagine six years ago, or ten years. It was really, really bad. And when I notice the more energy you have, the more energy everyone else has. It seems weird at first, but always stretch more than you feel comfortable, and it seems normal, and then you’ll feel better with it and better with it. But what’s interesting about humans is we are attracted to energy. I used to hate people talking energy talk, because I thought it was like the nerdy woo-woo crap. But it’s so weird and real actually. I notice this in all aspects of my life. When I come home at night, usually I am beat up and tired and worn out. I get up early in the morning, and then I work super hard, I get home and I get out of the car and I come to the door and before I open the door, I’m always like, Okay if I come in like, ugh, my whole family is going to be depressed with me.” They’ll all lower to my energy level. So I sit there and I get into state and I’m like, okay, whew. I open the door and I’m like, “What’s up guys!! I’m home!” and all the sudden my kids are like, “Oh dad’s home!” and they start running in, it’s this huge thing, it’s crazy, and then the tone is set, everyone’s energy is high and the rest of the night’s amazing. When I come in the office, I walk in and realize I’m the leader of this office and if I come in like, “Hey guys, what’s up? Hey Nick, what’s up?” Then everyone’s going to be like {sound effect}. So I’m like, okay when I come in I have to come in here, otherwise everyone is going to be down on a normal level. I have to bring people up. So we walk in the office now and I’m like, “What’s up everybody, how’s it going?” and I’m excited and they’re like, “Oh.” And everyone’s energy rises and the whole company grows together. So l love when Dave walks through the door, have you guys ever noticed this? When Dave walks through the door, I’m at a 10, Dave’s like at a 32 and it’s just like, he wakes up and comes over to my  house at 4:30 in the morning to lift weights. I sleep in an hour later, and I come in at 5:45 or something, and I walk in and I’m just like, “I want to die.” And I walk in and he’s like, “Hey how’s it going?.” I’m like, “Really good man. You’ve been here for an hour.” And all the sudden I’m like, oh my gosh I feel better. Instantly raised up. It’s kind of like tuning forks. Have you noticed this? If you get two tuning forks at different things and you wack one, and you wack the other one, and you bring them close together, what will happen is the waves will increase and they end up going at the exact same level. So energy matters. The higher your energy, the higher everyone else around you will be, on video, on audio, on face…everything, energy matters a lot. So that’s number two, when you’re making videos, thinking about that. Alright number three, okay this, you were like 90% there and I watched the whole thing and I was so excited and then you missed the last piece and I was like, “Oh it was so good.” So a year after that Facebook message came, you did a Facebook live one year later to the day, and he told that story on Facebook live. And I was like, “Oh my gosh this is amazing.” And he told that story, and he was talking about it, and I was emotional, going through the whole thing again. This is so cool, this is so cool. And he told the story about the podcast, and this podcast was an hour long, and the thing and his life changed and all this stuff… And I know that me and a whole bunch of you guys, a whole bunch of entrepreneurs listened to this story and they’re at bated breath, “This is amazing, this is amazing.” And he gets to the very end, “Alright guys, see you tomorrow.” Boom, clicks off. And I was like, “Aaahhh!” How can you leave me in that state?  I need something, I need something. So the note here is I said, make offers for everything. Think about this, at the end when you ended, and everyone’s thinking, I want to hear that episode, where is that? How would it be? Now imagine you take the opportunity at the very end that says, “How many of you guys would like to hear that episode where Russell actually made me a personal podcast? And how many of you guys would actually like if I gave you my commentary about what  I learned and why it was actually important to me? All you gotta do right now is post down below and write ‘I’m in.’ and I’ll add you to my messenger list and I’ll send you that podcast along with the recording where I actually told you what this meant to me.” Boom, now all those people listening are now on his list. Or they can even go opt in somewhere. But all you did was tell the story and everything and we were all sitting with bated breath and I was just like, at the end make the offer. You guys want the stuff I talked about, you want the thing? You want the thing? And then you send them somewhere and now you captured them and consider them longer term and you can do more things with them. It was like, hook, story, dude where’s my offer? Give me something. But it was awesome. How many of you guys felt that way when you listened to that thing and you’re just like, “I don’t even know where to find that episode. Russell’s got eight thousand episodes everywhere, I don’t even know where to look for it.” You could have been like, here’s the link. Just the link….if you guys can’t figure out how to make an offer, go listen to a whole bunch of stuff, find something amazing and be like, “oh my gosh you guys, I was listening to this Tim Ferris podcast, he did like 800 episodes, every one is like 18 hours long, they’re really hard to listen to, but I found this one from 3 ½-4 years ago where he taught this concept and it was insane. It was amazing; I learned this and this. How many of you want to know what that is? Okay, I have the link, if you message me down below I’ll send you the link to exactly where to find that episode.” Everyone will give it to you. You’ll be like, “But it’s free on the internet Russell.” It doesn’t matter. You know where it’s at and they don’t. They will give you their contact information in exchange for you giving them a direct link to the link. Back before I had anything to give away for opt ins, guess what I used to do. I used to go to YouTube and I would find cool videos from famous people. One of my favorite ones we did was I went and typed in YouTube, “Robert Kiyosaki” because he was one of my big mentors at the time. And there was all these amazing Robert Kiyosaki videos on YouTube for free. Tons of them. Hour long training from Robert Kiyosaki. Four hour long event from Robert Kiyosaki. All this stuff for free listed in YouTube. So I made a little Clickfunnels membership site, I got all the free videos and put them inside a members area and just like, “Tab one, Robert Kiyosaki talking about investing, Robert kiyosaki talking about stocks, Robert Kiyosaki talking….” And I just put all the videos in there and made a squeeze page like, “Hey, who wants a whole bunch of free, my favorite Robert Kiyosaki videos?” and I made a little landing page, people opt in, I give them access to the membership site, and then I went and targeted Robert Kiyosaki’s audience and built a huge list off his people. Dream 100. Imagine with Dream 100 instead of doing just one campaign to all the people, if each person in your dream 100 you made a customized membership site with the free content right now, be like, “Hey, you’ve listened to a lot of Grant Cardone, he’s got four podcasts, 5000 episodes, there’s only four that are actually really, really good. Do you guys wan tto know what they are? Opt in here, I’ll give you the four best episodes of all. I currated all these for you to give you the four best.” And target Grant’s audience with that, now you got all his buyers coming into your world. Is that alright, is that good. Alright number four ties along with this. Number four, start building a list ASAP. I don’t think I’ve ever seen you do a call to action to get a list anywhere, have I? After today’s session you’re …..just build a list. If you got nothing from this event at all, every time you do a hook and story, put them somewhere to build a list, because that’s the longevity. Because that’s where if Zuckerberg snaps his finger and you lose all your fans and followings and friends, and all the sudden you’re trying to build over somewhere else, it won’t matter because you’ll have those people somewhere external and now you can message them and bring them back into whatever world you need them to be at. But that’s how you build stability in business. It’s also how you sell this time, you want to sell it the next time and the next time, the list is the key. Funnel Hacking Live, the first Funnel Hacking Live it was a lot of work and we sold out 600 people in the room, and we kept growing the list and growing the list, the next year we did 1200. Then we did 1500, last year was 3000, this year we’re going to be at 5000. We’re building up the list and building up pressure and excitement and then when you release it, it gives you the ability to blow things up really, really fast.  Okay, that was number four. Okay number five, I wrote down integration marketing, adding to other’s offers to build a buyer list. So this is a little sneaky tactic we used to back in the day when I didn’t have my own list, but I had a couple of skills and talents which you do happen to have, which is nice. If you have no skills this won’t work, but if you have skills you’re lucky. So Frank Kern used to do this as well. Frank is sneaky. He used to do this all the time and I saw him doing it and I’m like, “Oh my gosh, he’s brilliant.” So Frank did a one hour presentation somewhere and he called it Mind Control, it wasn’t Mass Control, but it was something like about how to control the minds of your prospects through manipulation and something sneaky. And the title alone was amazing. It was a one hour presentation he gave somewhere. And he put it on these DVDs and what he did, he went to like Dan Kennedy and he’s like, “Hey Dan, you have all of your buyer and you send them this newsletter every single month,” at the time they had 13000 active members, these were their best buyers. He’s like, “This DVD I sell for like a thousand bucks. Do you want to give it to all your people for free?” And Dan’s like, “sure.” And all the sudden the next month, Franks got his best CD with his best stuff in the mailbox of the 13000 best customers, every single person that Dan Kennedy’s been collecting for the last 15 years. So think about this. With your skill set, look at the other people in the market, all the dream 100 who are doing things and how do you create something you can plug into their offers, and every single time one of those people sell a product, your face is popping up as well. It’s called integration marketing, my first mentor Mark Joyner wrote a book called Integration Marketing, it’s a really fast read. You can read it in an hour, but it will get your mind set thinking about it. How can I integrate with what other people are always doing? Because I can go and make a sell, and make another sell, but I was like, when we launched Clickfunnels I was like, “How can I figure out other people’s sales processes that are already happening and somehow inject myself into all these other sales processes?” That way every single time Steven Larsen sells something or someone else sells something, or all these people are selling something, it always somehow gets flown back to me. I want every product, every course, everything happening in the internet marketing world to somehow have people saying my name. That’s my goal. How many of you guy have been to other people’s events and I’m not there and they say my name? It makes me so happy. I get the instagrams from some of you guys, “Hey so and so just said your name.” I’m like, that’s so good. How have I done that? I spent a lot of my life integrating into everybody’s offers. Initially when I first got started, every single person who had a product, I was an interview in everyone’s product. I was like, looking at people launching a product, specific product launches coming, I’d contact them. Product launch is coming up, “Hey man, is there any way I could do a cool thing for your people? I could create this and give it to you and you could plug it into your product?” and everyone’s like, ‘Sure, that’d be awesome.” And all the sudden, boom, they get 5000 new buyers came in and every single one of them got my thing. They’re hearing my name, hearing my voice and it’s just constant integration. I think about how I met Joe Vitale, I talked about that earlier with the greatest showman. He was in an interview in a course I bought from Mark Joyner, I listened to it, fell in love with Joe Vitale, bought his stuff, given him tons of money over the years, a whole bunch of good stuff because he was integrated in that. So looking at other ways to integrate, the skill set that you already have into other people’s marketing channels because then you’re leveraging anytime any of these partners make a sell, you’re getting customers coming through that flow as well. Cool? Nick: Yeah. Russell: That was number five. Number six, I call this one rainmaker projects, because we talked about rainmaker during the first podcast interview. So rainmaker projects are, and again when I first started my career I did tons of these, where it’s like, I was really good at one piece. For you, you’re really good at video and story telling. And I look out here and be like, okay who is someone else here that is awesome? So and so is really good at making a product on Facebook ads. “You’re really good at Facebook ads, so I’ll do the video for this course, you do the Facebook, you do the actual ads for us.” And then, you’re awesome at doing the traffic and you bring in four or five people, like this little avenger team, and you create a cobranded product together and you launch it and everyone makes a bunch of money, split all the money, 50/50/50/50, that makes more than 100,but you know what I’m talking about, everyone splits the money, everyone splits the customer list and all the sudden you’ve all pulled your efforts, your energy, your talents together and everyone leaves with some cash, and you also leave with the customer list, and that’s when you start growing really, really rapidly. When I started I didn’t have a customer list, I had a very small one. But I had a couple of skill sets so that’s why I did tons of these things. That’s like, if you guys know any of my old friends like Mike Filsaime, Gary Ambrose, I could list off all the old partners we had back in the day, and that’s what we did all the time, these little rainmaker projects. We didn’t call them that back in the day, but that’s what it was. It was just like, we all knew what our skill sets were, and it’s like, let’s come together, let’s make a project. This isn’t going to be how we change the world, it’s not going to be something we’re going to scale and grow, but it’s like, it’s going to be a project, we put it together, we launch it, make some money, get some customers, get our name out in the market, and then we step away from it and then we all go back to our own businesses. It’s not like, that’s why it’s funny because a lot of times people are scared of these. Like, “Well, how do we set up the business structure? Who’s going to be the owner? Who’s the boss?” No, none of that. This is an in and out project where all the rainmakers come together and you create something amazing for a short period of time, you split the money and you go back home with the money and the customers. But it gave you a bump in status, a big bump in customer lists, a big bump in cash and then all those things kind of rise and if you do enough of those your status keeps growing and growing and growing, and it’s a really fast easy way to continue to grow. How many of you guys want to do a rainmaker project with Nick right now? Alright, very, very cool. Alright, and then I got one last, this is number seven. This kind of ties back to dream 100. The last thing I talked about was, and again this is kind of for everyone in the group, is the levels of the dream 100. I remember when I first started this process, I first got the concept and I didn’t know it was the dream 100 back then, but I was looking at all the different people that would have been on my dream 100 list. It was Mark Joyner, Joe Vitale, all these people that for me were top tier. Tony Robbins, Richard Branson, and I was like, oh, and I started trying to figure out how to get in those spots. And the more I tried, it was so hard to get through the gatekeeper, it was impossible to get through all these gatekeepers, these people. I was like, “Man don’t people care about me. I’m just a young guy trying to figure this stuff out and they won’t even respond to my calls or my emails. I can’t even get through, I thought these people really cared.” Now to be on the flip side of that, I didn’t realize what life is actually like for that, for people like that. For me, I understand that now at a whole other level. We’ve got a million and a half people on our subscriber list. We have 68000 customers, we’ve got coaching programs, got family, got friends. We have to put up barriers to protect yourself or it’s impossible. I felt, I can’t even tell you how bad I feel having Brent this morning, “Can you tell everyone to not do pictures with me.” It’s not that I don’t want to, but do you want me to tell you what actually happens typically? This is why we have to put barriers around ourselves. Here’s my phone, I’ll be in a room, like Funnel Hacking Live and there will be 3000 people in the room, and I’m walking through and someone’s like, “Real quick, real quick, can I get a picture?” I’m like, “I gotta go.” And they’re like, “It’ll take one second.” And I’m like, ahh, “Okay, fine, quick.” And they’re like, “Hold on.” And they get their phone out and they’re like, “Uh, uh, okay, uh, alright got it. Crap it’s flipped around. Okay, actually can you hold this, my arms not long enough can you hold it? Actually, hey you come here real quick, can you hold this so we can get a picture? Okay ready, one two three cheese.” And they grab the camera and they’re off. And for them it took one second. And that person leaves, and guess what’s behind them? A line of like 500 people. And then for the next like 8 hours, the first Funnel Hacking Live, was anyone here at the first Funnel Hacking Live? I spent 3 ½ hours up front doing pictures with everybody and I almost died afterwards. I’m like, I can’t…but I didn’t know how to say no, it was super, super hard. So I realize now, to protect your sanity, people up there have all sorts of gatekeepers and it’s hard. So the way you get through is not being more annoying, and trying to get through people. The way you get to them is by understanding the levels of that. So I tried a whole bunch of times, and I couldn’t get in so I was like, “Crap, screw those guys. They don’t like me anyway, they must be jerks, I’m sure they’re just avoiding me and I’m on a blacklist….” All the thoughts that go through your head. And at that time, I started looking around me. I started looking around and I was like, “hey, there’s some really cool people here.” And that’s when I met, I remember Mike Filsaime, Mike Filsaime at the time had just created a product he launched and he had like a list of, I don’t know, maybe 3 or 4 thousand people. And I remember I created my first product, Zipbrander, and I was all scared and I’m like ,”Hey Mike, I created this thing Zipbrander.” And he messaged back, “Dude that’s the coolest thing in the world.” A couple of things, Mike didn’t have a gatekeeper, it was just him. He got my email, he saw it, and he was like, “This is actually cool.” I’m like, “Cool, do you want to promote it?” and he’s like, “Yes, I would love to promote it.” I’m like, oh my gosh. I had never made a sale online at this point, by the way, other than a couple of little things that fell apart. I never actually made a sale of my own product. Zipbrander was my very first, my own product that I ever created. So Mike was that cool, he sent an email to his list, his 5000 person list, they came over, I had this little pop up that came to the site and bounced around, back in the day. I had 270 people opt in to my list from Mike’s email to it, and I think we made like 8 or 10 sales, which wasn’t a lot, but 67 that’s $670, they gave me half, I made $350 on an email and gained 300 people on my list. I’m like, oh my gosh this is amazing. And I asked Mike, “Who are the other people you hang out with? I don’t know very many people.” And he’s like, “Oh dude, you gotta meet this guy, he’s awesome.” And he brought me to someone else, and I’m like, “Oh this is cool. “ and Mike’s like, “Dude, I promoted Zipbrander, it was awesome, you should promote it.” And then he’s like, “Oh cool.” And he promoted Zipbrander. I’m like, oh my gosh, I got another 30-40 people on my list and there were a couple more sales. And then I asked him, “Who do you know?” and there was someone else, and we stared doing this thing and all the sudden there were 8 or 10 of us who were all at this level and we all started masterminding, networking, figuring things out, cross promote each other and what happened, what’s interesting is that all of our little brands that were small at the time started growing, and they started growing, and they started growing. All the sudden we were at the next tier. And when we got to the next tier all the sudden all these new people started being aware of us and started answering our calls and doing things, and Mike’s like, ‘Oh my gosh, I met this guy who used to be untouchable.” And he brought him in and brought them in and all the sudden we’re at the next level. And we started growing again and growing again. And the next thing we know, four years later I get a phone call from Tony Robbins assistant, they’re like, “Hey I’m sitting in a room and I got Mike Filsaime, Frank Kern, Jeff Walker, all these guys are sitting in a room with Tony Robbins and he thinks that you guys are the biggest internet nerds in the world, he’s obsessed with it and he wants to know if he can meet you in Salt Lake in like an hour.” What? Tony Robbins? I’ve emailed him 8000 times, he’s never responded even once, I thought he hated me. Not that he hated me, it’s that he had so many gatekeepers, he had no idea who I was. But eventually you start getting value and you collectively as a level of the dream 100 becomes more and more powerful. Eventually people notice you because you become the bigger people. And each tier gets bigger and bigger and bigger. So my biggest advice for you and for everybody is understanding that. Yes, it’s good to have these huge dreams and big people, but start looking around. There are so many partnerships to be had just inside this room. How many deals have you done with people in this room so far? Nick: Quite a few. Russell: More than one, right. Nick: Yeah, more than one. Russell: Start looking around you guys. Don’t always look up, up, up and try to get this thing. Look around and realize collectively, man, start doing the crossings because that’s how everyone starts growing together and there will be a time where I’ll be coming to you guys begging, “Can you please look at my stuff you guys, I have this thing called CLickfunnels. You may have heard of it. Can you please help me promote it?” And that’s what’s going to happen, okay. So the level of the dream 100 is the last thing, just don’t discount that. Because so many people are like swinging for the fence and just hoping for this homerun like I was, and it’s funny because I remember eventually people would respond to me, that I was trying for before, and they’d contact me. And I was like, oh my gosh. I realized, I thought this person hated me, I thought I was on a black list. I was assuming they were getting these emails and like, “oh, I hate this. Russell’s a scammer.” In my head right. They never saw any of them. Until they saw me, and they reached out to me and the whole dynamic shifted. So realizing that, kind of looking around and start building your dream 100 list, even within this room, within the communities that you’re in, because there’s power in that. And as you grow collectively, as a group, everyone will grow together, and that’s the magic. So that was number seven. So to recap the seven really quick. Number one, tell your story way too much, to the point where you’re so annoyed and so sick and tired of hearing it that everybody comes to you, and then keep telling it even some more. Number two, in everything you’re doing, energy matters a lot. To the point, even above what you think you’re comfortable with and do that all the time. Number three, make offers for everything. Hook, story, don’t leave them hanging, give them an offer because they’ll go and they will feel more completed afterwards. Number four, start building a list, it ties back to the first thing. Make an offer, get them to build your list, start growing your list because your list is your actual business. Number five, integration marketing. Look for other people’s marketing channels and how you can weave what you do into those channels, so you can get free traffic from all the people who are doing stuff. Number five, create rainmaker projects, find really cool things and bring four or five people together and make something amazing. Share the cash, share the customer list, elevate your status, elevate your brand, and it’s really fun to do because you get to know a whole bunch of people. And Number seven, understanding the levels of the dream 100. Find the people at your level and start growing with them together collectively as you do that, and in a year, two years, three years, five years Tony Robbins will be calling you, asking you to make his video and it will be amazing. Does that sound good? Awesome.

Hey it's April! And just as Matt and Dan promised, they have procrastinated three entire months. What has happened to Matt and Dan in three months? Little too nothing, but everyone around them is either dead or dying. Nothing beats Matt's muffin story and it clearly weighs on Dan and he tries to be interesting. He fails awfully and I mean it's cringe worthy. Hey Dan, read a book or something! Listen in as Matt tries to steer this ship from total ruin.

You'll smell us coming this week, 'cause we're starting some Orville Redenbacher beef. Your 'corn's subgourmet, Orv. At other times during the episode, we meet a very stylish and handsome monkey, Master Joshua gets saucy and we love it, and Tapan's worried about his brain grammar. Hey Dan in Cleveland... you're welcome. Pairings: a 12 foot wing span; 50% more taps; a seat SHOW NOTES How to raise money for your team Fruit snacks at their prime Eat your fruits and veggies Shuckin' since 1951 The most alpha car ever: Standing vs. sitting Gesticulation My Dad Wrote a Porno Eighteen little pigs Mastering the honorific

Dr. Veronica Anderson, Host, Functional Medicine Specialist and Medical Intuitive interviews Emily Filoramo about Erasing Your Fears, Negative Self-Talk and Insecurities. What does it take to erase your fears, negative self-talk and insecurities? Self-Leadership Expert, Trainer and Transformational Executive Coach, Emily Filoramo, mentors leaders and teams to master the inner game of success, leadership and life, utilizing Internal Family Systems evidence-based, proven model of accelerated self-awareness and personal growth. Her combination of challenging life experiences, 27-year pharmaceutical career, holistic nutrition expertise and passion in peak performance psychology, gives her a unique platform to help you soar to greatness from the inside-out. In this episode, Emily will talk about why she left the pharmaceutical industry, negative talk in Asian communities and how you can heal spiritual, emotional and physical issues. She will also talk about improving intimacy and love in relationships, recognizing a blessing in disguise and overcoming tragic experiences. Listen to the end to learn how you can help yourself and determine the root cause of illness and injury.   Dr. Veronica Anderson's Links https://www.linkedin.com/in/drveronicaanderson/ https://www.facebook.com/drveronicaanderson/ https://twitter.com/DrVeronicaEyeMD?lang=en https://www.pinterest.com/drveronicaeyemd/?eq=dr.%20veronica&etslf=14837 https://www.instagram.com/drveronica/?hl=en     Recommended Book: Emily How to permanently erase self-talk: http://amzn.to/2oYGiXk   Discussed: http://selfleadership.org/   Show Notes: 03:30 - Why Emily left the pharmaceutical business 06:45 - Embarking on your spiritual journey 11:45 - Negative self-talk in Asian communities 21:20 - Healing spiritual, emotional and physical issues 22:00 - Intimacy and love in relationships 30:00 - Recognizing a blessing in disguise 36:30 - Overcoming tragic experiences 41:30 - Can you help yourself? 44:30 - The root cause of illness & injury _______________________________ Dr. Veronica Anderson is an MD, Functional Medicine practitioner, Homeopath. and Medical Intuitive. As a national speaker and designer of the Functional Fix and Rejuvenation Journey programs, she helps people who feel like their doctors have failed them. She advocates science-based natural, holistic, and complementary treatments to address the root cause of disease. Dr. Veronica is a highly-sought guest on national television and syndicated radio and hosts her own radio show, Wellness for the REAL World, on FOX Sports 920 AM “the Jersey” on Mondays at 7:00 pm ET.    If you enjoyed this episode, do us a favor and share it! Also, if you haven’t already, please take a minute to leave us a 5-star review on iTunes and claim your bonus here!   Do you want to regain your health? Visit: http://drveronica.com/ Transcription Female VO: Welcome to the Wellness Revolution Podcast, the radio show all about wellness in your mind, body, spirit, personal growth, sex, and relationships. Stay tuned for weekly interviews featuring guests that have achieved physical, mental, and spiritual health in their lives. If you'd like to have access to our entire back catalog visit drveronica.com for instant access. Here's your host, Dr. Veronica. Dr. Veronica: Welcome to another episode of Dr. Veronica's Wellness Revolution. Today we're going to talk about how you talk, how you speak, and how it affects your life. As a wellness coach, I started my life as a doctor but now I coach because it's more effective. I realized people that are going to make or break them and one is how they talk about themselves and what they're doing or going to do.  One of the words I give people, "Here's what you're going to go out and do next week." And they say, "Okay, I'll try." And then I say, "Wait, no. Banish that word, try." When you try to do something it means that you're never going to get there. You're never going to do it. You'll always be trying but you won't be succeeding. No, you're going to do. And so for a lot of times... You guys hear Artemis back in the background. Of course you know. This [Unintelligible 00:01:34]. But you realize that with people you want them to do. And so one of the tasks that I work on with people is them changing their languaging, about themselves, about what they are doing or going to do.  And so my guest here, Emily Filloramo, bemoreextraordinary.com, was in pharmaceutical sales for many years, left, switched gears. Neurolinguistic program, this is what we're talking about. Try and can, the negative self-talk that make it. But you learn this somewhere. And so we're going to talk today because in transforming your health you have to have it up here. Then you have to speak it and everything can change. It's not all about diet, supplements, and exercise.  It's also about getting your mind and your spirit and emotions. So you guys know that that's what I'm going to tell you about because there are millions of people out there telling you what diet to go on, what to eat, and pushing and peddling your product. I want to tell you what the secret sauce is. Today I have with me Emily Filloramo, bemoreextraordinary.com. She also has a book, How to Permanently Erase Negative Self-Talk: So You Can Be Extraordinary. Welcome to Dr. Veronica's Wellness Revolution. Let's start by saying you're in pharmaceutical sales, a beautiful, comfortable job that people aspire to. You get your car, you get the free lunches, you get the wine and dine people, it pays really well. You get the bennies going on. And you know it's so hard to get benefits these days. But some of the best ways to get taken care of is to push drugs, be a drug pusher for a pharmaceutical company. So what made you switch? Emily: I switched because I was laid off after 27 years back in 2011. I was almost ready to retire. Another couple of years I could've gotten a big, fat pension because I had started when I was so young. And so the universe had orchestrated that 2x4 to be hit. And it was pretty painful because I had a kid. He was a freshman in college. I have three years of private college tuition left to pay so it's 180,000. And here I am I don't have my six figure job anymore. Anyhow, I dug in and I got the courage to jump off the cliff into the entrepreneurial journey. And eventually I found my spiritual calling, as a transformational magician and leadership coach. And so I launched as a nutritionist first because that's what I studied at Cornell. Made sense, right? What I found is that I didn't like coaching people how to eat their green beans, drink their green smoothies because they did well when they were with me but afterwards they fell off the wagon. And that's why 95% of dieters keep failing and gain all their weight back because I recognized they were not addressing the real emotional burns that they were carrying, the I'm not worthy, I'm not enough. And so because they didn't believe in themselves that's what was holding them back from actually sustaining the healthy habits. And so even if when you say I try, the patients say I try, they try because there's a part of them that doesn't believe that they actually deserve to be that rocking trim, healthy, and someone that deserves for everybody to turn their head and look at them. And so because it's all the old shame... we all have old shame that we're holding on to that has us believe that we don't deserve to be in the spotlight. Because our deepest fear is our light, not our darkness. And that's what drives people so self-sabotage in health, in career, in relationships, in everything that we do. And so I ended up in the training, linguistics programming but I found that that was not enough to get to real issues. And so low and behold the universe orchestrated me ending up in this training called internal family systems. It's a general physician. We all got evidence based, internal family systems, IFS, developed by Dr. Richard Schwarz, is an evidence based modality of permanent emotional healing. It's the fastest path to becoming aware of who you are. And it's the fastest path to really living as your authentic self and unleashing the most extraordinary version of who you are. Men or women you've always dreamed of becoming.  And just unleashing to the next level and whatever it is that you want to do with your life, getting spirit-led center and finding your true calling. And living life with joy on the journey to really leaving your legacy. And so that is power. Dr. Veronica: One thing that I'm noticing is a lot of us who have been in, let's say traditional, beautiful, successful careers are now moving out of those stable places to be able to go on and help people on the spiritual journey. Why do you think that is? What do you think is going on here? Emily: Especially with success driven people who lived life as they were supposed to. You do great in school. Yeah, I know. Go to college, or maybe you were told by your mom and dad you got to be a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer. Be an artist, no, shut that part of you off.  So you do what you're supposed to do. You live through this mask, this persona that you've erected of how you're supposed to show up so you get accepted by people. And so you go on this rat race. You make good money, have the kids, buy the house, whatever it is that you're supposed to do to look like you're successful. Then usually in mid-life, especially people in their 40's is like, "This is all there is? How come I'm not happy despite the money, status, and stuff? Who am I? Why am I here on this earth? I know I'm a good doctor and a lot of physicians I used to call on, but this is just a rat race." Dr. Veronica: It's funny for me. I feel like it was a year in practice that I started my own from patient zero that I knew this ain't it. Then I became more and more miserable and depressed because I had no idea how to get out of it at that point in addition to thinking that, oh my god, I spent so many years to get here. I spent so many years to get here and now I can't stand it. What am I going to do? In addition too, because in our culture and society people are just so sick nobody's going to help you get out because they want you as their doctor. Emily: And I think the other frustration that a lot of physicians used to share with me is I give them these tools. The same old song and dance, you got to eat right, you got to exercise, move your body. And so these patients try and they don't succeed. Because they want to just stay in the darkness because... Oh my god, I just had a conversation the other day with a new client and she says, "Oh my god, who am I if I showed up in my thousand watt light? I've never shown up in that way." And so it's scary. You need to do the emotional healing work. Because what happens is we're so off from center because we don't have the right story in our head. So maybe there are physicians that could stay in medicine. But when you do so many inner works understand who you are and what drove you to overachieve. A lot of that over achievement can be due to... you were the smartest kid in class and the bullies all make fun of you for wearing pocket protectors or whatnot. And it's like, "I'll show them."  So we don't even know we have that story going on in our head. And then just the pressure from mom and dad. They want... It's only the way I'm going to get approval is if I get an MD, or JD, or MBA after my name. So you keep seeking validation from the outside. Because when you were young stuff happened at school or at home where you felt neglected, when you felt like you didn't belong. I had a physician that I worked with and this is one of his most traumatic moments. When he was in second or third grade he had to smell the feet of the bully on the school bus. Just imagine how humiliating that is. And the kids also shoved him down the sewer when he was in first grade.  And so he had all of these. He had great parents but he had all these bad incidences from the bullies and made him believe, took on the belief, "I am not enough. I'm not lovable. Look at what they did to me. I am ashamed." He was also a minority so you felt like I didn't belong and that's why they're discriminating.  And so that drove him to succeed and become a doctor and whatnot. Yeah, over achievement but now he is sabotaging his relationships. He's a very handsome man and he always had trouble with... Logically he knows he's handsome, but every time he sees a beautiful woman at the bar or at some party or whatever he's so afraid to approach her because of that little boy that was in the sewer. That little boy that was on the school bus believing that he is worthless. So that little voice is like, "Why would she want to go out with me?" The logical brain says, "Of course she wants to go out with you. You're successful, you're a doctor." But that little boy inside of him is like, "No, you don't deserve her." And even if he did get her to go out he'll sabotage it.  Dr. Veronica: Let's break some ground here. Because we both talk to all kinds of audiences. But I want to break a little ground here because there are some subject matter that people just gloss over and they don't talk about it. And if we don't start talking about these cultural identities we're never going to get people well.  And so we are sitting here, you're an Asian woman, I'm an African American. First we got the woman thing going on but then we have the not from the European culture thing going on. Where do you think that plays a role? Let's talk a little bit about that. As an Asian woman where were you. Because I know there was self-talk and I have plenty of Asian friends who tell me what was going on in their family.  And I look at Asian people and say, "You guys start out with an A because everybody expects you to have the A. And then you have to knock yourselves down in grades. You start out with the A. But as a black person you start out with an F and then you got to work yourself up to the whatever.  But there's all kinds of positive and negative things going on in this and I know there's plenty of people who watch you and or watch me because I'm an African American woman, or because you're an Asian woman. They're going to listen to what you have to say.  First, speak to your Asian brothers and sisters and let everybody else know a little bit about what's going on with the negative self-talk in the Asian community. And I know it's not monolithic. I understand that. When people are looking from the outside they tend to lump in. And this is one of our problems, we're not educated. But there's some Asian personas that from having friends that are Japanese, Korean, Filipino, Taiwanese, all the different areas. I've seen some similarities in the way the families operate. Talk about that and the negative self-talk. Emily: Yes. I'm an immigrant. I came here when I was nine. Dr. Veronica: I'm still listening, but keep talking. Emily: Okay. I came here when I was nine years old and without a word of English. And so I was trying to assimilate in Los Angeles which was not so traumatic. What became traumatic was when the family moved to New York in the middle of junior high, in the middle of the school year. And we ended up living in a two bedroom, non-air conditioned, third floor walkup for six people, four kids and two parents, one bathroom. And so it was not fun.  I just felt so ashamed for having to live that way. We were one of the poorest kids on the block. And so the first neighborhood that we lived in there were a lot of African Americans in the school and I was teased a lot for being Asian. I was called all sorts of discriminatory names. And I didn't share those with my parents.  My parents was toxicity at home with the way my father was emotionally abusing my mother, belittling her. And just witnessing that was horrible. And so I didn't feel the love at home because there was no love between them. So they didn't know how to show up as parents. And so I had to break up their fights and stuff, so I had bad trauma.  And then I have all the trauma of the stuff that I experienced at school where I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm wearing hand me down clothing. Nothing matches. I needed braces. I felt ugly." And so that shame kept going on because we had moved again in the middle of the school year and I didn't feel like I fitted in. We were living amongst a lot of Jewish and Italian families in bay side Queens way back in the 70's. There weren't a lot of Asians. Again, I felt different. Dr. Veronica: It's interesting because Queens now is like little Asia. Emily: Yes. I know. And so the point is however we grow up, because when we feel different that's when we take on the beliefs of I don't fit in. And so I always felt ashamed about my Asian-nes because I was never accepted as an Asian.  And I had an incident where I was at the home of a Jewish boy working on a project, somebody that I had a crush on. And his mother comes home and just says to him, "Take her home please. She doesn't need to come here and do this project with you." It was just the way that she said and I remembered just being frozen. It's like, "Oh my god, here I am being discriminated against." So all of that toxicity at home and then the stuff that I was feeling at school, it drove my overachievement gene, because I said, "I got to get out of here." I am never coming back home.  Fortunately, I got into Cornell, got into a good school, but at Cornell the discrimination continued. I was in the fraternity parties and the frat boys I was overhearing them saying, "You got to go ask that chink to dance with you." The names that I was called it was horrifying. I kind of shoved all of that shame under the rug and I was fortunate that I was able to get a great job. Eight months out of college I started working for Pfizer, got out on my own. And because I was now making money I wasn't poor anymore, I decorated myself in designer clothing. I made sure I looked perfect to just make sure nobody knew who that Emily was underneath all of this package of perfection. And there's a saying that perfectionism is just shame wrapped up in a pretty little box. And that's what I was hiding. And so I met my husband, got married, had a kid, and all that other kind of stuff. I have another trauma which is when I was five months pregnant. My husband suffered a heart attack. He was only 38, I was 29. That's a whole another side of the story. He's alive today. He's doing well. But for 15 years I had to deal with raising a kid and trying to figure out is his next shoe going to drop. When is he going to die? He's gone through a couple of angioplasties, quadruple bypass surgery, all that stuff.  I was frozen. I lived a numbed out life. I was like, "Okay, just keep making money. You got health insurance and just do what you're supposed to do. Go out on a nice vacation." But then at the end of the day I really wasn't addressing the fact that I really wasn't satisfied. I was doing my job in my sleep but I knew that there was more of me that could be unleashed, I just didn't know what that was going to look like. And I wasn't going to worry about it until I retired. The universe had a different game plan.  In 2011 that's when they decided, okay, it's time to lay you off and to wake you up. And so on this entrepreneurial journey is where I found my joy. Even though it's extremely hard. I've hit many speed bumps, got into very stinky potholes, gotten stuck there. The rest of my emotional karma stuff that wasn't worked on had to be worked out. And so the reason why I gained this courage and fearlessness to go on the entrepreneurial journey was because 10 years prior, in my 40, I'm 54 now. In my 40's all of the emotional baggage that I've never addressed kind of came to the surface and I ended up in a depression and anxiety state for a year. It was triggered by a situation at work which led me to address all of the anger and range that I had towards my father for the way he treated my mother. The anger and rage for him being so afraid and not being able to support the family in a way where I could at least had clothing that made me feel like I fit in with the group. The anger and rage of not being able to afford braces for me to feel like I look normal. And I also addressed all of the shame of being Asian that I had to address.  Initially I had gone to a hypnotist to heal and I had to go back and access these young parts of me, including the part of me that was growing inside of my mother's womb. I was the oldest of four kids. What's interesting is looking at the picture, my mother being pregnant with me I knew right then and there that fetus, she was praying for me to be a boy. Because my grandmother used to say to my mother all the time, keep getting pregnant until you produce sons.  As a fetus that's growing we pick up on all those energy. I knew that I was a worthless human being from the very get go. So it was me, my sister, and my two brothers. And even when my grandfather died he only asked for my brothers to go back to Taiwan. And he didn't ask for me and my sister. It's just all the cultural burdens. It's not their fault. They were downloading these beliefs and programming it to us. It's a legacy part that we have to release. It's not my parents' fault that they were fighting with each other or they couldn't be present for me. It's because they are wounded. They didn't do the healing. So when we do our healing that's when we forgive all of the people that have hurt us. And we forgive ourselves. And so I had to do all these healing, repairing all these young parts of me that didn't feel... Because when you're experiencing that kind of trauma. You take on the beliefs that I must not be worthy. I must not be lovable. I must not be enough. That's why I get discriminated against, that's why I get made fun of.  And what happens is there's parts of you that go into overdrive to try to overcompensate, so the overachievement gene. You're overachievement to try to show that you are worthy. So my drive to make money to make myself look good. Now we're doing it for the wrong reasons and that's why it will come back to haunt you especially in midlife. Dr. Veronica: Some of these issues that are societal and cultural don't necessarily go away. But there are people who end up thriving because they heal from them. And people who are hurting with spiritual, emotional, and physical issues want to know how to heal. So you talk about this negative self-talk and how to be extraordinary. And you specifically talk a lot about people attracting love into their lives and why they cannot attract love into their lives. I deal with people like this all the time and one of their biggest sources of pain is they don't have a life partner. And so you talk about, "Hey, this is what you're doing wrong. Here's how you shifted." Talk a little bit about what people attract in their life. Because people just feel like, "I always get the bad guys or I never get the bad guys."  We're in a culture now as African American women, we feel like we're the last chosen. I look at Asian women, I think, those are the pretty dolls that everybody wants. Everybody wants an Asian woman. Which I think is a burden to be thought of like that of course. On the other side when you're put up on that pedestal and everybody wants you and they're going to take care of you that's different than being from a group of women where you feel like you're the last chosen all the time. Emily: Yeah. I find that fascinating. Knowing how I grew up, like, "Why would they want me? Here I am, the Asian that nobody wanted." And now all of a sudden all these men... Dr. Veronica: Everybody thinks you're hot. Emily: Why didn't they think I was hot when I was growing up? Wayne Dyer famously said you will not attract what you want into your life, you will attract who you are. So if you're attracting the same losers over and over again it's because it's a reflection of who you feel you are on the inside. So if you don't think you're worthy that's the energy that gets transmitted. And if you're addicted to stuff you're going to attract another addict. If you're so used to watching your dad beat the heck out of your mom or vice versa then that's a familiar energy. So you're going to attract that energy because that little girl inside of you who has not been healed is attracted to the little boy inside of him that has not been healed, so it's familiar.  The goal of a love relationship is for us to finish childhood. And that is why we are attracted to the people. There's one group of people that is attracted to the people with the positive and the negative qualities of the people that hurt us in the past. "Oh my gosh, no wonder I'm attracted to my father, or my mother, whatever," that's one group of people. And then another group of people is because they experience so much pain they end up attracting somebody's who's safe, who they don't go through the emotional ups and downs with. And they just live life more or less like roommates.  So absolute joy and love relationship is not going to happen without absolute depth of pain. Because the pain when you're triggering each other, you can't get along. But there's a part of you that's like, "But why am I so magnetically attracted to him?" It's because he is reminding you of somebody from the past that you have unfinished business with.  And when you recognize that and say, "Okay, he yelled at me for the way I emptied the dishwasher." I know this is not life or death but there was a part of him that reminded him of sloppily you emptied the dishwasher. Nothing is lined up directly in the cupboards. That's like a part of him that needs order and detail. And it's because it's a part of him from the past that is reminding him of the order and detail that mom used to have or whatever. Mom used to yell at him for not having things in order. So now he's trying to re-live that life through the partner and he's nitpicking on every little thing. Dr. Veronica: Turn that around just a little bit because there are people who are watching where they've been through the trauma and they get it why they were attracted to that partner that's not serving them well now. But on the other side there's people who are in relationships that seem to be doing well and it seems to be working. What's going on there? Emily: Relationships that seem to be working, you do have to eventually do... If you really want mind blowing, emotionally intimate relationships you have to work on yourself individually, and you have to work on couple relationship. Because you have to recognize that the stuff that pushes your buttons, the triggers, it's all a gift for you to grow intimately closer. And you have to recognize that when there's that angry edge that comes out it's not really anger towards you, it's really anger towards himself and towards somebody in the past.  Maybe he's so angry at the fact that you don't keep things in a neat way. Because it's really residual anger and rage towards his mother for making him do things just so. And so it's that residual anger that's coming out when he's sees that you're not really behaving in the right way.  When you recognize that that's where it's from this is when you... let's say you're the female partner, you could say, "Hey Dan, can this part of you that is so neurotic about order, can that part of you just chill out a little bit? I just need a little bit space here. What does it need from me in order for this part of you to relax?" Essentially now there's three people in the conversation. It's yourself, the husband, and then the part of the husband that has his need for order. So you're not blaming him, you are saying this is this part of you that is showing up in this relationship. "Now, you're reminding me of my father the way he used to scold me of how sloppy I was." And it just goes back and forth. When you both recognize it that is where the true healing can take place, to say, "Hey Dan, let me hold your hand. Just let this part of you know that I'm going to do my best to make it a little bit neater the next time. And if you could just relax. Nothing bad's going to happen if the dishes aren't quite stacked up in an orderly way." And so that's when intimacy happens. And so you need a tool set to understand, you're going through the doorway for Dan, this part of him that is neurotic about order. You get to know this part of him. Sometimes he gets to know this part. You kind of separate out. Maybe you use a glass, maybe the image comes out as the soldier or whatever.  We have these little sub personalities inside of our minds, of these parts of us that are kind of running our show, the voices inside of our head. And you have to separate out from that part and get to know the job of this part that's neurotic about order. What's its job? It's job is to make sure everything's in order. It's just job is to make sure that you are seen as somebody who's neat. It'll keep telling you the story. And you ask it, what is it afraid of if it doesn't do its job of keeping things in order? It's afraid that things are going to fall apart. It's afraid that people are going to judge you. It's afraid that you're going to get criticized. It's afraid that you're going to fail if things aren't in order. And so you peel back the layers. And then once this part tells you its story of why it keeps in this neurotic state then it will show you then who's the vulnerable child inside of you that this part is protecting. He says, "It's that seven year old part of me that is just crying in the closet after mom yelled at me for not lining my books up in the right way." Dr. Veronica: I get what you're saying, but there's all these buttons that have been pushed, starting from even before we're born. You're telling about things that were happening and you're parents and their thought process before you were even born. How do we incorporate that in to make it from a harming experience to a, this is one of the biggest blessings that I realized it is.  I can see things. I'm intuitive and so things flash in and I understand them on a different level more now. I see things that happen when I was young and I realized, "That's why I'm not so happy with the way my body looks in this particular situation." You can know what that is. I've been made the way I am. I love me the way I am. But what do you do when there's the negative signals coming from all over the place. And so as I'm saying, hey, you're saying, "People think I'm hot?" You were getting a signal that has been a positive signal. But for a lot of people they've been getting those negative signals. A lot of people that I work with they're overweight. And they're like, "I've always been a fat kid." And they had that negative story that's been going on and they still have it and the society at a whole is going to continue to have that picture.  And so while you're healing from it, while you're getting back your health give us some keys to switching over into that positive wealth of how the healing begins. Because I know once people start embracing these issues the problems they've been dealing with including health problems, they start to heal and go away. And it's miraculous how all of a sudden, "Oh my god, it's easy for me to lose the weight right now," or whatever it is. "My gosh, my blood pressure is lower. My medicine's lower. My cholesterol's lower." That fear, anger, and sadness that they've been holding on as they let go, the health problems go away. But the society hasn't changed. The culture hasn't changed. How do people start to deal with what's going on in the negative out there that they feel is harming but let it go enough so they can heal themselves. Emily: Yes. And so I started to talk about some of the steps of how you heal, getting to know this part. And so I'm going to describe the typical client that has the fat part. Anybody that's been through a weight struggle has this fat part of me that sabotages. And so maybe this is a good time to mention the gift that I'm going to give them. Dr. Veronica: Oh please, yes. Emily: If the audience goes to nonegativetalk.com they could enter their email and get the whole protocol of how to get to know these parts of you that are holding you back. So this way you don't have to keep taking notes. And if we're going all over the place with our conversation you have a protocol to follow.  A typical fat part story. I'm going to tell you a story of a 40-year old woman that I worked with. She had the same 15 pounds that she was gaining and losing over and over again. She was just disgusted. And she's like, "This is not giving me the energy to do what I need to do for the next step of my career because I'm so consumed with food."  And so we got to know this fat part of her. And I said, "When did this fat part of you begin?" She separated out the fat part. It looked like a Michelin... Because we get images of these parts of us. And so she got this part of her that was talking to her, and she says, "Yeah, this part's telling me that it's been my life since third grade." "Okay, what's its job? Keep you fat, keep you..." Because she emotionally ate, and to soothe the emotional pain because it was afraid... it was the fat part. Let's call her Mary. If it didn't keep Mary far what is it afraid is going to happen to Mary if this fat part didn't keep her fat? It said that it's afraid that Mary was going to get teased and criticized. If she got attention from being thin and beautiful it's afraid that she was going to be judged. And so eventually I said, "Okay. What happened in third grade that had you take on this fat part?" And it brought her to a memory in a third grade classroom when she was just frozen because she has beautiful red hair and she was amongst a sea of brunettes. And so she was constantly teased for her beautiful red hair not only by classmates but by her siblings. That part of her believed that it is not safe to shine because I will be teased. As she grew older and older, every time she just didn't feel good about herself because this part was getting triggered. She just ate to numb out that pain. And she couldn't figure out why she would lose it. She would work so hard, "Let me go on this exercise plan, this diet plan." And then this fat part will come back and just self-sabotage the whole thing.  Because the fat part's like, "You didn't get to know me. You don't even know why I keep you fat. You hate me. So the more you hate the part of you that holds you back the more it will be like, "Oh yeah, you hate me? Well guess what, I'm not going away. I'm going to keep coming back until you pay attention to me and hear my story.  As she got to know the fears of this fat part, and this fat part said, "I'm protecting that third grade part of you that's still in the classroom being shamed and bullied for having red hear." She had to update this fat part to say, "You're holding me back. I'm 40 years old. I'm trying to feel good about myself so I could have the confidence and the courage to go for this next promotion because right now I don't feel good in my body. And the fat part was like, "Really, you're 40 years old now? You're no longer seven? And I'm holding you back? Oh, wow." Dr. Veronica: Let me take it up just one notch because we all have our suffering that we go through and some people may be listening and saying, "She got teased because she has red hair." That ain't a big deal. That's really not a big deal. I was sexually abused. I was mentally and emotionally abused. And it continued for years, and years, and years. I went into a relationship and that relationship was abusive. And so red hair, that's easy.  What do you say to those people who've been through really major challenges and difficulties a lot of times at the hands of people that they trusted? What do you say to people like that about...? It's hard to say, "I'm 40 and I got to let it go when it's just..." How do you let go of that to be able to shine and be the best you? Emily: Yes. You can't just let go and just say, "Okay, I'm not that story anymore. You have to do the healing, especially for these incidences of sexual abuse, verbal abuse, these toxic things. That part of accessing that vulnerable child, that part of the journey, it would be irresponsible for me to say, "You could go and heal this yourself.  You could get to know your fat part. A lot of sexually abused people also have a fat part because it's their insulation against further sexual abuse, which is very understandable. And I've worked many sexual abuse survivors. And so you have to go in through the door way of this protective mechanism, the parts of you that you don't like and that's why you got to get to another story.  And so the sexual abuse part, people have been sexually abused, what I want to share with them is you can permanently get over the shame from being sexually abused. And your whole system has to give you permission through the guide of an expert. You can't do this on your own because you could do further damage to yourself. And if you try to do it on your own without the right tools, there's more and more protectors that are going to be erected to prevent you from actually going there. And so the whole goal is to get the whole protective system... Think of the protective system as soldiers that are guarding the door to the dungeon that's filed with these pained and shamed parts of you. And so when they give the permission, okay, now that you could hear my story of why I keep you fat, why I keep you procrastinating, why I keep you angry. You hear the story and you get it. And we're ready to transform into a more positive parts.  Let me show you the parts of you that we're protecting in the dungeon. And so they'll guide you. The highest self, all love for yourself, your highest self has the power to rescue that young part of you that's in the dungeon. And you, that young part of you will be looking at you, your 40-year old self. And that young part of you because she was abused.  Nobody was there where she felt safe to tell the whole story. A lot of abusers, they keep all that to themselves. And so when this four year old girl that was abused can safely trust you, the highest self. She tells you her story. She tells you what happened to her. She tells you the burdens that she's been holding on to, burdens of worthlessness. "I'm not lovable. I'm not enough. I'm dirty." And let her flesh all of that out to you.  And then you give her what she needed at that moment of trauma. And you pour all the love, I'll tell her it's not your fault your uncle abused you. He's broken and we have to forgive him. What counts is I love you. You are enough. And that's released as burden, that's like get it out of the body. And people hold it in certain phases. Maybe for sexually abused people they're holding it in their sexual organs and stuff where they're always clammed up when they're intimate with someone.  Whatever it is the highest self can help this young four year old heart to release all the negative energies and the burns that she's been holding on to. And we could get that four year old part unstuck from the past. Let's get you out of that house, out of that bedroom, and let's go into my current home. And let's burn that house down. If she wanted to burn the house down you help her to burn the house down.  And so as you're actually doing this, this is actually rewiring the memories at the cellular level. Untangling the trauma and then... it's called memory reconsolidation where now the new memory of when you think about this four year old part of you that's been abused, now you think about how your higher self just giving her love, and hugs, and say, "I love you. I got you." You're the one that you need in order to heal yourself. Dr. Veronica: Emily, again, tell people where they can go to get stared with your type of techniques. And before we give that I just got to say to the audience, one thing that Emily said is about you can't do this yourself. Now, in our culture and society everybody's going to Dr. YouTube and getting a degree on the university of Google.  And there's all kinds of "self-help books." But what people who are high performers know, who are in successful in life, who are healthy and happy is you have to have somebody who's an expert to show you the way. It's like when you drive a car. Somebody has to teach you how to drive that car. Would you get into a plane and pilot yourself after you've watched it on YouTube and read it on Google? So reach out to get help. There are traditional doctors and therapists but how's that been working for you? And then there are people like Emily Filloramo and her main website, bemoreextraordinary.com. But Emily, tell us about where people can get your gift again. Emily: nonegativetalk.com will give you the protocol. And then if you want to also learn more after you look at this protocol I would recommend that they read my book, How to Permanently Erase Negative Self-Talk. People, they write me letters to say, "I cried during your book because so many of the stories hit home for me." I said, "The first step to change is awareness." And reading my book and understanding the whole landscape of the internal family system model of psychospiritual healing, you're going to understand, "Oh my god, it is not my fault after all that I'm stuck. It's not my fault that I am fat."  Now, do I want to do something about it? That's a whole another phase of change. So sometimes people want to stay stuck in their negative stories because that means you don't have to answer to anything. You don't have to finally show up. And if that's what they choose to do it's their prerogative. Dr. Veronica: That's where they are. And so we're talking about this for health reasons, why? Because it's just not about diet, exercise, and supplements. It's not just about diet, exercise, and supplements. It's about a lot more than that. Emily: And what's interesting is when I was going through the training with internal family systems my teachers and professors were saying... since I used to work in the pharmaceutical industry, "Imagine if everybody healed themselves, came home to their true self and felt really good, and forgave everybody, you know what, we would not need the pharmaceutical industry. We would not need the diet industry. And all of this emotional burden stuff would be released. We don't need pills, we don't need diets because it's going to naturally heal our bodies. We will be taking many industries out of the water."  That's how powerful this is. Not that we're going to bankrupt all of these industries in our lifetime because there's just so many layers to this. Because internal family systems is not a pharmaceutical pill that some rep can go and sell to you.  Pills are the easy way to [Unintelligible 00:46:52]. "Okay, I have fibromyalgia, let me take this pill." Fibromyalgia is trying to tell you something. Cancer is trying to tell you something. It is a protector that's saying heal emotionally already. I think you and I both know epigenetics and all that stuff, 80% of diseases are caused by environmental things, things that happen to us, and it's not just genes.  Dr. Veronica: It is not just genes. Emily: You can't blame it on your genes.  Dr. Veronica: Root cause of every illness and injury is a spiritual and emotional issue which triggers and goes along with those environmental, genetic, and lifestyle factors. But if you don't have the spiritual, emotional issue sitting there in the first place is not going to trigger even the genes. You got the breast cancer gene. You're going to get breast cancer because you have an issue. Live your heart chakra in that energy center.  Emily: Exactly. If you ask most breast cancer patients why they got breast cancer, it's like, "Oh, I stayed in my marriage too long. It's the toxicity for my husband, that's fine.  Emily: Baggage with my father... Your body's always talking to you and you got to do this virtual healing, and yes, spiritual healing is not a pill. And you have to find a practitioner that you resonate with. And so if traditional psychotherapy, self-help programs have not gotten you to the finish line it's because you haven't found the right modality. Traditional psychotherapy can get you stable but really move the needle. You got to do this "clean up duty" with internal family systems.  Most of the people that are training internal family systems are psychotherapists, you could fine someone near you by going to selfleadership.org. You'll get that information or not, When you're down on my e-book. You go to that website to find somebody near you. They may even take your insurance.  And then there's a bunch of us that are trained, that are not therapist that takes internal family systems way beyond psychotherapy to help people unleash extraordinary, to help people become better leaders. Exactly, and so this is how powerful this is because at its root this is spiritual cleaning. This is not psychotherapy. You got to rescue all of those parts of you that are still stuck in the past burned with the emotional pain of getting bullied at school, sexually abused being made fun of, or you felt like you didn't matter. All those parts are just still frozen and old memories. You got to go and rescue those parts and come into the present with you. Because these parts of you now transform into something positive and they get on the same sheet of music. And they become a part of your inner team, an orchestra member that's actually playing along with you. Because you want to go from point A to point B, you want to make the world a better place, well, you got to get rid of this inner conflict that's up here. And when you fully believe in yourself, when you're madly in love with yourself that's when your vibration changes, and that's when you attract all the people and the opportunities that you need in order to launch yourself into greatness. Dr. Veronica: Fabulous. And we're going to be able to close right there. Before we close with Emily Filloramo give us the gift website again.  Emily: It's nonegativetalk.com. Dr. Veronica: nonegativetalk.com, and the book is How to Permanently Erase Negative Self-Talk: So You Can Be Extraordinary. Emily's other website is bemoreextraordinary.com. Thank you so much Emily. Emily: Thank you so much Dr. Veronica for having me on. Dr. Veronica: Hey everyone. I want to really thank you so much for listening to my new podcast, Dr. Veronica's Wellness Revolution. I really enjoy helping others regain their health. So if this episode helps you, it can definitely help others. Do me a favor. Give us a five star review on iTunes to help me spread this message.  And because I really appreciate your help so much I will be giving away a $25 Amazon gift card each week to a random individual. Check the show notes of this episode for the details on how to win. Thank you so much. Take care. Female VO: Thank you for listening to the Wellness Revolution Podcast. If you want to hear more on how to bring wellness into your life visit drveronica.com. See you all next week. Take care.   

A very special Rockies legend joins the Pedro Astacio-Shawn Chacon Memorial Edition of the PDP in Episode 34. He's likely much older and much cooler than you and has already won more Rockies Fantasy Camp championships and MVP awards than you have.This week, as Rockies pitchers and catchers report, we're talking pace of play rules changes, the early storylines of spring training, the weird things minor league coaches do on bus trips, and much more. Plus our local music opens continue, this week featuring the song "Hey Dan, I Quit" by the Lawsuit Models.