Podcasts about 7ps

This is the 5th episode of our series with Kerry Dobson. We loved our previous collaboration so much, that we decided to continue. This time we're talking about the Marketing Like We're Human program and giving it a little refresher. In this episode Kerry shares some feedback from previous participants of the program, what was great and what could be improved >> please join us for a workshop on the 1-Page Marketing Plan on December 3rd. You can sign up here: https://www.humane.marketing/december3rd I've been hosting this program twice per year since 2019. It's a deep dive into the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala where you will learn to market from within. This program is for you if: you want and need to get more clients, but want to share your message in an ethical and humane way you want to make a difference with your work you are just starting out, or have been in business for a while but haven't really found the marketing activities that work for you or you are pivoting your business from 'business as usual' to 'your life's work' and want to radically change the way you get clients The next cohort starts on Feb 4th and You can find out more at https://www.humane.marketing/program In this series of conversations Kerry asks me questions about the Marketing Like We're Human program and together we give it a little make-over. Just as a refresher, Kerry is a small group specialist who focuses on creating meaningful group programs. Kerry will actually join the program as co-facilitator and infuse her long experience with making groups impactful and transformational. And if you have any questions that you'd like us to address, you can reach out to either me or Kerry directly.

This is the 5th episode of our series with Kerry Dobson. We loved our previous collaboration so much, that we decided to continue. This time we're talking about the Marketing Like We're Human program and giving it a little refresher. In this episode Kerry shares some feedback from previous participants of the program, what was great and what could be improved >> please join us for a workshop on the 1-Page Marketing Plan on December 3rd. You can sign up here: https://www.humane.marketing/december3rd I've been hosting this program twice per year since 2019. It's a deep dive into the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala where you will learn to market from within. This program is for you if: you want and need to get more clients, but want to share your message in an ethical and humane way you want to make a difference with your work you are just starting out, or have been in business for a while but haven't really found the marketing activities that work for you or you are pivoting your business from 'business as usual' to 'your life's work' and want to radically change the way you get clients The next cohort starts on Feb 4th and You can find out more at https://www.humane.marketing/program In this series of conversations Kerry asks me questions about the Marketing Like We're Human program and together we give it a little make-over. Just as a refresher, Kerry is a small group specialist who focuses on creating meaningful group programs. Kerry will actually join the program as co-facilitator and infuse her long experience with making groups impactful and transformational. And if you have any questions that you'd like us to address, you can reach out to either me or Kerry directly.

This is the 4th episode of our series with Kerry Dobson. We loved our previous collaboration so much, that we decided to continue. This time we're talking about the Marketing Like We're Human program and giving it a little refresher. In this episode we talk about the resources or workbooks of the program, and what we'll keep and what we'll get rid off. >> please join us for a workshop on the 1-Page Marketing Plan on December 3rd. You can sign up here: https://www.humane.marketing/december3rd I've been hosting this program twice per year since 2019. It's a deep dive into the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala where you will learn to market from within. This program is for you if: you want and need to get more clients, but want to share your message in an ethical and humane way you want to make a difference with your work you are just starting out, or have been in business for a while but haven't really found the marketing activities that work for you or you are pivoting your business from 'business as usual' to 'your life's work' and want to radically change the way you get clients The next cohort starts on Feb 4th and You can find out more at https://www.humane.marketing/program In this series of conversations Kerry asks me questions about the Marketing Like We're Human program and together we give it a little make-over. Just as a refresher, Kerry is a small group specialist who focuses on creating meaningful group programs. Kerry will actually join the program as co-facilitator and infuse her long experience with making groups impactful and transformational. I'll be posting these conversations as bonus episodes, so make sure you're subscribed to the show to get notified about the following convos. And if you have any questions that you'd like us to address, you can reach out to either me or Kerry directly.

This is the 4th episode of our series with Kerry Dobson. We loved our previous collaboration so much, that we decided to continue. This time we're talking about the Marketing Like We're Human program and giving it a little refresher. In this episode we talk about the resources or workbooks of the program, and what we'll keep and what we'll get rid off. >> please join us for a workshop on the 1-Page Marketing Plan on December 3rd. You can sign up here: https://www.humane.marketing/december3rd I've been hosting this program twice per year since 2019. It's a deep dive into the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala where you will learn to market from within. This program is for you if: you want and need to get more clients, but want to share your message in an ethical and humane way you want to make a difference with your work you are just starting out, or have been in business for a while but haven't really found the marketing activities that work for you or you are pivoting your business from 'business as usual' to 'your life's work' and want to radically change the way you get clients The next cohort starts on Feb 4th and You can find out more at https://www.humane.marketing/program In this series of conversations Kerry asks me questions about the Marketing Like We're Human program and together we give it a little make-over. Just as a refresher, Kerry is a small group specialist who focuses on creating meaningful group programs. Kerry will actually join the program as co-facilitator and infuse her long experience with making groups impactful and transformational.   I'll be posting these conversations as bonus episodes, so make sure you're subscribed to the show to get notified about the following convos.   And if you have any questions that you'd like us to address, you can reach out to either me or Kerry directly.

This is the 4th episode of our series with Kerry Dobson. We loved our previous collaboration so much, that we decided to continue. This time we're talking about the Marketing Like We're Human program and giving it a little refresher. In this episode we talk about the resources or workbooks of the program, and what we'll keep and what we'll get rid off. >> please join us for a workshop on the 1-Page Marketing Plan on December 3rd. You can sign up here: https://www.humane.marketing/december3rd I've been hosting this program twice per year since 2019. It's a deep dive into the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala where you will learn to market from within. This program is for you if: you want and need to get more clients, but want to share your message in an ethical and humane way you want to make a difference with your work you are just starting out, or have been in business for a while but haven't really found the marketing activities that work for you or you are pivoting your business from 'business as usual' to 'your life's work' and want to radically change the way you get clients The next cohort starts on Feb 4th and You can find out more at https://www.humane.marketing/program In this series of conversations Kerry asks me questions about the Marketing Like We're Human program and together we give it a little make-over. Just as a refresher, Kerry is a small group specialist who focuses on creating meaningful group programs. Kerry will actually join the program as co-facilitator and infuse her long experience with making groups impactful and transformational. I'll be posting these conversations as bonus episodes, so make sure you're subscribed to the show to get notified about the following convos. And if you have any questions that you'd like us to address, you can reach out to either me or Kerry directly.

This is the 3rd episode of our new series with Kerry Dobson. We loved our previous collaboration so much, that we decided to continue. This time we're talking about the Marketing Like We're Human program and giving it a little refresher. In this episode we talk about each module in detail, and what we'll keep and what we'll get rid off. I've been hosting this program twice per year since 2019. It's a deep dive into the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala where you will learn to market from within. This program is for you if: you want and need to get more clients, but want to share your message in an ethical and humane way you want to make a difference with your work you are just starting out, or have been in business for a while but haven't really found the marketing activities that work for you or you are pivoting your business from 'business as usual' to 'your life's work' and want to radically change the way you get clients The next cohort starts on Feb 4th and You can find out more at https://www.humane.marketing/program In this series of conversations Kerry asks me questions about the Marketing Like We're Human program and together we give it a little make-over. Just as a refresher, Kerry is a small group specialist who focuses on creating meaningful group programs. Kerry will actually join the program as co-facilitator and infuse her long experience with making groups impactful and transformational. I'll be posting these conversations as bonus episodes, so make sure you're subscribed to the show to get notified about the following convos. And if you have any questions that you'd like us to address, you can reach out to either me or Kerry directly.

This is the 3rd episode of our new series with Kerry Dobson. We loved our previous collaboration so much, that we decided to continue. This time we're talking about the Marketing Like We're Human program and giving it a little refresher. In this episode we talk about each module in detail, and what we'll keep and what we'll get rid off. I've been hosting this program twice per year since 2019. It's a deep dive into the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala where you will learn to market from within. This program is for you if: you want and need to get more clients, but want to share your message in an ethical and humane way you want to make a difference with your work you are just starting out, or have been in business for a while but haven't really found the marketing activities that work for you or you are pivoting your business from 'business as usual' to 'your life's work' and want to radically change the way you get clients The next cohort starts on Feb 4th and You can find out more at https://www.humane.marketing/program In this series of conversations Kerry asks me questions about the Marketing Like We're Human program and together we give it a little make-over. Just as a refresher, Kerry is a small group specialist who focuses on creating meaningful group programs. Kerry will actually join the program as co-facilitator and infuse her long experience with making groups impactful and transformational. I'll be posting these conversations as bonus episodes, so make sure you're subscribed to the show to get notified about the following convos. And if you have any questions that you'd like us to address, you can reach out to either me or Kerry directly.

This is the 3rd episode of our new series with Kerry Dobson. We loved our previous collaboration so much, that we decided to continue. This time we're talking about the Marketing Like We're Human program and giving it a little refresher. In this episode we talk about each module in detail, and what we'll keep and what we'll get rid off. I've been hosting this program twice per year since 2019. It's a deep dive into the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala where you will learn to market from within. This program is for you if: you want and need to get more clients, but want to share your message in an ethical and humane way you want to make a difference with your work you are just starting out, or have been in business for a while but haven't really found the marketing activities that work for you or you are pivoting your business from 'business as usual' to 'your life's work' and want to radically change the way you get clients The next cohort starts on Feb 4th and You can find out more at https://www.humane.marketing/program In this series of conversations Kerry asks me questions about the Marketing Like We're Human program and together we give it a little make-over. Just as a refresher, Kerry is a small group specialist who focuses on creating meaningful group programs. Kerry will actually join the program as co-facilitator and infuse her long experience with making groups impactful and transformational.   I'll be posting these conversations as bonus episodes, so make sure you're subscribed to the show to get notified about the following convos.   And if you have any questions that you'd like us to address, you can reach out to either me or Kerry directly.

This is the 2nd episode of our new series with Kerry Dobson. We loved our previous collaboration so much, that we decided to continue. This time we're talking about the Marketing Like We're Human program and giving it a little refresher. In this episode we talk about the pivotal moments of the program I've been hosting this program twice per year since 2019. It's a deep dive into the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala where you will learn to market from within. This program is for you if: you want and need to get more clients, but want to share your message in an ethical and humane way you want to make a difference with your work you are just starting out, or have been in business for a while but haven't really found the marketing activities that work for you or you are pivoting your business from 'business as usual' to 'your life's work' and want to radically change the way you get clients The next cohort starts on Feb 4th and You can find out more at https://www.humane.marketing/program In this series of conversations Kerry asks me questions about the Marketing Like We're Human program and together we give it a little make-over. Just as a refresher, Kerry is a small group specialist who focuses on creating meaningful group programs. Kerry will actually join the program as co-facilitator and infuse her long experience with making groups impactful and transformational. I'll be posting these conversations as bonus episodes, so make sure you're subscribed to the show to get notified about the following convos. And if you have any questions that you'd like us to address, you can reach out to either me or Kerry directly.

This is the 2nd episode of our new series with Kerry Dobson. We loved our previous collaboration so much, that we decided to continue. This time we're talking about the Marketing Like We're Human program and giving it a little refresher. In this episode we talk about the pivotal moments of the program I've been hosting this program twice per year since 2019. It's a deep dive into the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala where you will learn to market from within. This program is for you if: you want and need to get more clients, but want to share your message in an ethical and humane way you want to make a difference with your work you are just starting out, or have been in business for a while but haven't really found the marketing activities that work for you or you are pivoting your business from 'business as usual' to 'your life's work' and want to radically change the way you get clients The next cohort starts on Feb 4th and You can find out more at https://www.humane.marketing/program In this series of conversations Kerry asks me questions about the Marketing Like We're Human program and together we give it a little make-over. Just as a refresher, Kerry is a small group specialist who focuses on creating meaningful group programs. Kerry will actually join the program as co-facilitator and infuse her long experience with making groups impactful and transformational. I'll be posting these conversations as bonus episodes, so make sure you're subscribed to the show to get notified about the following convos. And if you have any questions that you'd like us to address, you can reach out to either me or Kerry directly.

This is the 2nd episode of our new series with Kerry Dobson. We loved our previous collaboration so much, that we decided to continue. This time we're talking about the Marketing Like We're Human program and giving it a little refresher. In this episode we talk about the pivotal moments of the program I've been hosting this program twice per year since 2019. It's a deep dive into the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala where you will learn to market from within. This program is for you if: you want and need to get more clients, but want to share your message in an ethical and humane way you want to make a difference with your work you are just starting out, or have been in business for a while but haven't really found the marketing activities that work for you or you are pivoting your business from 'business as usual' to 'your life's work' and want to radically change the way you get clients The next cohort starts on Feb 4th and You can find out more at https://www.humane.marketing/program In this series of conversations Kerry asks me questions about the Marketing Like We're Human program and together we give it a little make-over. Just as a refresher, Kerry is a small group specialist who focuses on creating meaningful group programs. Kerry will actually join the program as co-facilitator and infuse her long experience with making groups impactful and transformational.   I'll be posting these conversations as bonus episodes, so make sure you're subscribed to the show to get notified about the following convos.   And if you have any questions that you'd like us to address, you can reach out to either me or Kerry directly.

I'm kicking off another little series with Kerry Dobson. We loved our previous collaboration so much, that we decided to continue. This time we're talking about the Marketing Like We're Human program and giving it a little refresher. I've been hosting this program twice per year since 2019. It's a deep dive into the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala where you will learn to market from within. This program is for you if: you want and need to get more clients, but want to share your message in an ethical and humane way you want to make a difference with your work you are just starting out, or have been in business for a while but haven't really found the marketing activities that work for you or you are pivoting your business from 'business as usual' to 'your life's work' and want to radically change the way you get clients The next cohort starts on Feb 4th and You can find out more at humane.marketing/program In this series of conversations Kerry asks me questions about the Marketing Like We're Human program and together we give it a little make-over. Just as a refresher, Kerry is a small group specialist who focuses on creating meaningful group programs. Kerry will actually join the program as co-facilitator and infuse her long experience with making groups impactful and transformational.   I'll be posting these conversations as bonus episodes, so make sure you're subscribed to the show to get notified about the following convos.   And if you have any questions that you'd like us to address, you can reach out to either me or Kerry directly.

I'm kicking off another little series with Kerry Dobson. We loved our previous collaboration so much, that we decided to continue. This time we're talking about the Marketing Like We're Human program and giving it a little refresher. I've been hosting this program twice per year since 2019. It's a deep dive into the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala where you will learn to market from within. This program is for you if: you want and need to get more clients, but want to share your message in an ethical and humane way you want to make a difference with your work you are just starting out, or have been in business for a while but haven't really found the marketing activities that work for you or you are pivoting your business from 'business as usual' to 'your life's work' and want to radically change the way you get clients The next cohort starts on Feb 4th and You can find out more at humane.marketing/program In this series of conversations Kerry asks me questions about the Marketing Like We're Human program and together we give it a little make-over. Just as a refresher, Kerry is a small group specialist who focuses on creating meaningful group programs. Kerry will actually join the program as co-facilitator and infuse her long experience with making groups impactful and transformational. I'll be posting these conversations as bonus episodes, so make sure you're subscribed to the show to get notified about the following convos. And if you have any questions that you'd like us to address, you can reach out to either me or Kerry directly.

I'm kicking off another little series with Kerry Dobson. We loved our previous collaboration so much, that we decided to continue. This time we're talking about the Marketing Like We're Human program and giving it a little refresher. I've been hosting this program twice per year since 2019. It's a deep dive into the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala where you will learn to market from within. This program is for you if: you want and need to get more clients, but want to share your message in an ethical and humane way you want to make a difference with your work you are just starting out, or have been in business for a while but haven't really found the marketing activities that work for you or you are pivoting your business from 'business as usual' to 'your life's work' and want to radically change the way you get clients The next cohort starts on Feb 4th and You can find out more at humane.marketing/program In this series of conversations Kerry asks me questions about the Marketing Like We're Human program and together we give it a little make-over. Just as a refresher, Kerry is a small group specialist who focuses on creating meaningful group programs. Kerry will actually join the program as co-facilitator and infuse her long experience with making groups impactful and transformational. I'll be posting these conversations as bonus episodes, so make sure you're subscribed to the show to get notified about the following convos. And if you have any questions that you'd like us to address, you can reach out to either me or Kerry directly.

In this episode of the podcast, we continue our series on the 7Ps of Business for Christian coaches. We dive into the fourth P—'Particulars'—which focuses on tracking key performance indicators (KPIs) and other impactful numbers to help grow your coaching business. We discuss the importance of measuring details, and how these metrics tell the story of your business. We offer practical advice on setting up a simple scorecard to keep track of these particulars, the benefits of measuring performance, and tips for getting started with tracking your business metrics. Whether you're a solopreneur or have a growing team, these strategies will help you manage and grow your business more effectively.TIME STAMPS:00:00 Welcome 00:54 Introduction to the Seven Ps of Business01:54 Diving into the Particulars04:03 Tracking and Measuring Success06:26 Building and Using a Scorecard10:13 Steps to Effective Tracking23:41 Connecting and Reflecting24:33 Conclusion and Next StepsDOWNLOAD PODCAST RESOURCE:therealifeprocess.com/sevenFREE RESOURCES:Take the FREE Intro to Needs & Values AssessmentReady to discover what uniquely matters to YOU? CLICK HERE to take our FREE Intro to the Needs & Values Assessment.FREE Download: 4 Steps to Simplify Your CalendarReady to uncover more time on your calendar? This FREE download will help you remove what doesn't matter, so you have space for what does. Click here to get this FREE resource!OTHER RESOURCES:Join the REALIFE Practice Membership!The REALIFE Practice Membership is designed for those who want to grow spiritually, but feel like REALIFE is getting in the way. We'll learn how to integrate meaningful spiritual practices and tools into our daily lives through live group calls, group coaching, training videos, downloadable resources, and an interactive community. Visit www.therealifeprocess.com/membership to join us today!Check out our YouTube Channel!Prefer to watch AND listen? Check out our YouTube channel for the podcast episode on video! Make sure to subscribe so you get all the latest updates.My Book LinkMy new book, Do What Matters, is available NOW! Banish busyness and discover a new way of being productive around what truly matters. Learn more at DoWhatMattersBook.com.LifeMapping ToolsWould you life to discover  Life Mapping tools to help you recognize and respond to God in your Story. Check out these tools here https://www.onelifemaps.com/JOIN OUR COMMUNITY & CONNECT WITH ME:Become part of the FREE REALIFE Process® Community! Connect with Teresa and other podcast listeners, plus find additional content to help you discover your best REALIFE.Connect with your host, Teresa McCloy, on:Facebook - The REALIFE Process® with Teresa McCloyInstagram - teresa.mccloyLinkedIn - teresamccloyAbout Teresa McCloy:Teresa McCloy is the founder and creator of the REALIFE Process®, a framework designed to empower individuals and groups with the tools, training, and community needed for personal and professional growth. Through the REALIFE Process®, Teresa is on a mission to help others grow in self-awareness, establish sustainable rhythms, and enhance their influence and impact by integrating faith and work into their everyday lives. She lives with her husband of 42 years on their 5th generation family farm in central Illinois and enjoys great coffee, growing beautiful flower gardens and traveling as much as possible. About Erica Vinson:Erica Vinson helps clients walk through defining moments with confidence and courage enabling them to move forward in freedom and embrace fearless living. As an ACC Credentialed and Certified Professional Life & Leadership Coach, she uses wisdom from all 3 Centers of Intelligence to help clients gain deeper self-awareness and grow in relationships with others both personally and professionally. Erica is a certified REALIFE Process® Master Coach, an ©iEnneagram Motions of the Soul Practitioner, and has a certificate in Spiritual Transformation through the Transforming Center. She lives in the Metro East St. Louis area and enjoys spending quality time with friends and family, golfing, tennis, boating/water skiing, traveling, is a bit of a technology nerd and loves learning!

Thinking of starting your own business? Whether it's for freedom, profits, or making an impact, success begins with clarity and preparation. In this week's episode of the I Hate Numbers podcast, we explore how to start with success in mind—and avoid the common pitfalls that derail so many new businesses. Drawing from decades of real-world experience, Mahmood shares what it really takes to build a sustainable, profitable business—from defining your "why" to knowing your numbers. Main Topics & Discussion Know Your "Why" Your "why" is the foundation of your business. It's your motivation and direction. Whether it's freedom, profit, social impact, or personal pride—clarity here keeps you focused when challenges arise. Define Success On Your Terms Success looks different for everyone. Is it financial freedom, more time, job creation, or personal fulfilment? Define what success means to you—and how you'll know when you've arrived. Set SMART Goals & KPIs Vague goals like "get more clients" don't cut it. Use SMART goals (Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, Time-bound) to set clear targets. Track progress with KPIs like: Income and profit targets Website traffic and conversions Client retention and churn rates Understand Your Customer Business success depends on knowing your customer. Who are they? What problems do they have? How does your product or service solve them? Remember the 7Ps of Marketing: Product, Price, Promotion, Place, Packaging, Positioning, People Know Your Numbers Numbers are your business compass. Get comfortable with: Digital bookkeeping (cloud accounting recommended) Budgets and cash flow forecasts Profit targets and pricing strategies Good financial systems reduce stress and support smarter decisions. Leadership & Mindset Matter Starting a business is tough. Expect good days and bad. Success requires resilience, consistent action, and continuous learning. Good leadership is about making decisions, learning from mistakes, and staying focused. Real-World Example Mahmood reflects on starting his own business 30 years ago—from a back bedroom to building I Hate Numbers. The lessons? Clarity, systems, knowing your numbers, and staying focused on your "why". Links Mentioned in This Episode

En este episodio especial sobre longevidad charlo con tres expertos de referencia para desvelar las claves científicas y prácticas para cumplir más años con mayor calidad de vida. El Dr. Ángel Durántez, pionero en Medicina Preventiva Proactiva y Envejecimiento Saludable en España, explica cómo la prevención personalizada, el ejercicio y el control de factores de riesgo son esenciales para envejecer con calidad de vida.  Antonio Valenzuela, fisioterapeuta y especialista en psiconeuroinmunología clínica, profundiza en el papel fundamental de las mitocondrias como “centrales energéticas” del organismo y comparte estrategias para optimizar su funcionamiento y retrasar el envejecimiento celular.  Por último, el Dr. Joan Matas, ginecólogo y experto en Nutrición y Medicina Ortomolecular, analiza los pilares de la dieta de la longevidad y cómo la alimentación puede influir en los mecanismos moleculares del envejecimiento, apostando por un enfoque “pro-aging” para vivir mejor, no solo más tiempo.  Tres conversaciones imprescindibles para quienes buscan sumar salud y vitalidad a cada etapa de la vida. Este episodio especial resume fragmentos de la conversación mantenida con cada uno de los invitados. Si quieres profundizar en el tema y escuchar la entrevista completa, aquí tienes el enlace a los episodios: Envejecimiento saludable El Dr. Ángel Durántez, cuenta cómo la prevención, la actividad física y la medicina personalizada son claves para retrasar el envejecimiento y mantener la funcionalidad y el bienestar en todas las etapas de la vida. Envejecimiento saludable y medicina de las 7Ps, episodio 29 del Podcast de Jana Fernández con el Doctor Ángel Durántez  Mitocondrias, salud y longevidad Antonio Valenzuela analiza cómo el cuidado de estas “centrales energéticas” a través de hábitos saludables puede prevenir enfermedades y ralentizar el envejecimiento. Mitocondrias: el 'motor' de tu salud y tu longevidad. Episodio 200 del Podcast de Jana Fernández, con Antonio Valenzuela  Dieta de la longevidad El Dr. Joan Matas explica cómo la restricción calórica, la selección de nutrientes y el enfoque “pro-aging” pueden influir en los mecanismos moleculares del envejecimiento, ayudando a mantener la salud y la vitalidad a largo plazo. La 'dieta' de la longevidad: qué comer para vivir más. Episodio 214 del Podcast de Jana Fernández, con el dr. Joan Matas  Más contenido en mi web ⁠janafernadez.es⁠ y en Instagram ⁠@janafr⁠ y ⁠@bienestarydescanso⁠. Si quieres saber más, puedes leer mi libro ⁠Aprende a descansar⁠, y suscribirte a mi newsletter semanal ⁠janafernandez.substack.com

Sunday Evening Service Sermon ( June15, 2025)Thuphanak Paunak 20:7Ps. Kap Lian Khai

Can your AI models survive a big disaster? While a recent major IT incident with CrowdStrike wasn't AI related, the magnitude and reaction reminded us that no system no matter how proven is immune to failure. AI modeling systems are no different. Neglecting the best practices of building models can lead to unrecoverable failures. Discover how the three-tiered framework of robustness, resiliency, and anti-fragility can guide your approach to creating AI infrastructures that not only perform reliably under stress but also fail gracefully when the unexpected happens.Show NotesTechnology, incidents, and why basics matter (00:00:03)While the recent Crowdstrike incident wasn't caused by AI, it's impact was a wakeup call for people and processes that support critical systemsAs AI is increasingly being used at both experimental and production levels, we can expect AI incidents are a matter of if, not when. What can you do to prepare?The "7P's": Are you capable of handling the unexpected? (00:09:05)The 7Ps is an adage, dating back to WWII, that aligns with our "do things the hard way" approach to AI governance and modeling systems.Let's consider the levels of building a performant system: Robustness, Resiliency, and AntifragilityModel robustness (00:10:03)Robustness is a very important but often overlooked component of building modeling systems. We suspect that part of the problem is due to: The Kaggle-driven upbringing of data scientistsAssumed generalizability of modeling systems, when models are optimized to perform well on their training data but do not generalize enough to perform well on unseen data.Model resilience (00:16:10)Resiliency is the ability to absorb adverse stimuli without destruction and return to its pre-event state.In practice, robustness and resiliency, testing, and planning are often easy components to leave out. This is where risks and threats are exposed.See also, Episode 8. Model validation: Robustness and resilienceModels and antifragility (00:25:04)Unlike resiliency, which is the ability to absorb damaging inputs without breaking, antifragility is the ability of a system to improve from challenging stimuli. (i.e. the human body)A key question we need to ask ourselves if we are not actively building our AI systems to be antifragile, why are we using AI systems at all?What did you think? Let us know.Do you have a question or a discussion topic for the AI Fundamentalists? Connect with them to comment on your favorite topics: LinkedIn - Episode summaries, shares of cited articles, and more. YouTube - Was it something that we said? Good. Share your favorite quotes. Visit our page - see past episodes and submit your feedback! It continues to inspire future episodes.

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the fifth episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the fifth episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the fifth episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

“If you're getting ready to jump into App Commerce, don't do it on a whim. I'd say, come on to our website and download our 7Ps, and even regardless if you do it with us or do it on your own or with any other people, anyone else, use that as your process.” In Season 7, Episode 19 of the Boss Uncaged Podcast, S.A. Grant sits down with the CEO & Co-Founder of StoreLab, Campbell Paton.

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

This is the first episode of a series of unplugged, no bells and whistles solo episodes around the 7Ps of Humane Marketing. If you missed an episode you can go to www.humane.marketing/7ps To reflect upon the 7Ps for your business, get your 1-Page Marketing Plan at www.humane.marketing/1page To work on this marketing foundation in a small group, join us in the Marketing Like We're Human program. Find out more at www.humane.marketing/program

Allow me a moment to share a bit of context and details about the Marketing Like We're Human aka The Client Resonator program that's starting again on March 14th. This is my flagship 3month program that is tightly linked to this podcast, because it follows the same framework: the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. It's a deep dive into these 7Ps to help you discover who you are, what your passion is and then bring more of you to your marketing. Market from within, so to speak. But this is more than just marketing. This is building the foundation for your life's work! We start with the inner: the Passion, the Personal Power and then go to the Outer: the People, the Product, the Pricing, the Promotion and the Partnership with others. We go deep, in an intimate group, and come out transformed, with a business that we're truly aligned with. It's a hybrid program with a 30 minute video to watch each week, a beautiful workbook with deep reflection and journal prompts and then a live group call to go deeper! Who is it for? Whether you have 1 year, 5 years or 10 years business experience, it's never to late to go back to create the foundation and instead of just a business, create your life's works, so you can truly market from who you are. The best is always to hear it from other participants. Have a look at humane.marketing/program. There are plenty of testimonials and a handful of in depth case studies. Book a call with me now to discuss if this is the right next step for you at this point in your business.

Allow me a moment to share a bit of context and details about the Marketing Like We're Human aka The Client Resonator program that's starting again on March 14th. This is my flagship 3month program that is tightly linked to this podcast, because it follows the same framework: the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. It's a deep dive into these 7Ps to help you discover who you are, what your passion is and then bring more of you to your marketing. Market from within, so to speak. But this is more than just marketing. This is building the foundation for your life's work! We start with the inner: the Passion, the Personal Power and then go to the Outer: the People, the Product, the Pricing, the Promotion and the Partnership with others. We go deep, in an intimate group, and come out transformed, with a business that we're truly aligned with. It's a hybrid program with a 30 minute video to watch each week, a beautiful workbook with deep reflection and journal prompts and then a live group call to go deeper! Who is it for? Whether you have 1 year, 5 years or 10 years business experience, it's never to late to go back to create the foundation and instead of just a business, create your life's works, so you can truly market from who you are. The best is always to hear it from other participants. Have a look at humane.marketing/program. There are plenty of testimonials and a handful of in depth case studies. Book a call with me now to discuss if this is the right next step for you at this point in your business.

Allow me a moment to share a bit of context and details about the Marketing Like We're Human aka The Client Resonator program that's starting again on March 14th. This is my flagship 3month program that is tightly linked to this podcast, because it follows the same framework: the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. It's a deep dive into these 7Ps to help you discover who you are, what your passion is and then bring more of you to your marketing. Market from within, so to speak. But this is more than just marketing. This is building the foundation for your life's work! We start with the inner: the Passion, the Personal Power and then go to the Outer: the People, the Product, the Pricing, the Promotion and the Partnership with others. We go deep, in an intimate group, and come out transformed, with a business that we're truly aligned with. It's a hybrid program with a 30 minute video to watch each week, a beautiful workbook with deep reflection and journal prompts and then a live group call to go deeper! Who is it for? Whether you have 1 year, 5 years or 10 years business experience, it's never to late to go back to create the foundation and instead of just a business, create your life's works, so you can truly market from who you are. The best is always to hear it from other participants. Have a look at humane.marketing/program. There are plenty of testimonials and a handful of in depth case studies. Book a call with me now to discuss if this is the right next step for you at this point in your business.

In this episode of the Humane Marketing podcast, we venture into the 'P' of People as part of our ongoing exploration of the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. Join me in a conversation with Cara Steinmann, the visionary founder of the Ravel Collective and host of the Ravel Radio podcast. Together, we delve into the art of authentic networking, emphasizing the importance of core values, unconventional approaches on LinkedIn, and the profound impact of empathy on your business relationships. Discover new insights that could transform the way you approach human connections and meaningful networking. In this episode, Cara and I discuss: Her experience with traditional networking and how she redefined it How to bring our core values to our networking How Cara uses LinkedIn to create connections, but not with a lead-generation mindset Networking for introverts How to be intentional when networking The importance of quality over quantity And so much more Ep 174 [00:00:00] Sarah: Hi, Cara. So nice to meet. Hi, you. [00:00:04] Cara: Good to see you, Sarah. How's it going? I'm good, thank you. [00:00:08] Sarah: Thanks for having me. Yeah, I really look forward to this conversation with you. I was on your podcast recently and we really [00:00:15] Cara: we're [00:00:16] Sarah: aligned, so I'm glad we have you on the humane part, marketing podcast, and talking about networking. [00:00:23] Right? So that's kind of your. Specialty and, uh, yeah, I want to just go dive right in. So tell me how did you come to make networking part of your specialty? And how did you build a community around networking? Why is networking so important to [00:00:45] Cara: you? It was kind of an accident because I don't really think of myself as a networking person and I think a lot of people probably feel that way because there's this connotation around networking that it's sort of like very businessy and very like you imagine yourself in a [00:01:00] room with very professional people and you're handing out business cards and you're talking about things that are very business related, but I think in my life, uh, in my career, I've sort of acted more as just a connector. [00:01:12] I think of it as connecting with people and building relationships. And that's usually not on a grand scale. It's one person at a time, usually in a one to one conversation. And it doesn't feel like what you would imagine networking to be. So I think maybe a little shift in the way we think about networking can help a lot of us who don't like that whole, you know, big corporate business vibe and really care more about. [00:01:36] One to one relationships and what goes on beyond the business. Yeah. [00:01:40] Sarah: That's already such a, a shift when you say relationship building versus networking. Mm-hmm. has that term work in it. Right. And so it feels like I'm the one going into this crowd and I have to work my way through it. Like, and, and yeah. [00:01:58] Collect the business cards [00:02:00] and you know, it's kind of like, yeah. [00:02:01] Cara: That, and I think. Be I think expanding our understanding of network be working beyond or even relationship building beyond thinking of who we are going to build relationships with to thinking about who we can connect so they can build relationships, because then you expand your network exponentially because then they also. [00:02:23] They also consider you part of their and both of you're part of both of their network. And then they're connecting. And then when they meet new people, they want to introduce you. So it's kind of kind of like weaving a web of connection with people that you genuinely want to talk to and spend time with and respect. [00:02:37] Sarah: It's funny you guys use that term weaving because in our community, uh, we have. One of the calls that is kind of like a networking call, um, but we actually call it net weaving. So I love that it's this idea of, yeah, we're together and we're getting to know one another, but we're weaving, uh, these [00:03:00] relationships. [00:03:00] Cara: And yeah, I love that. Yeah, we unravel. We have connection calls that are just to talk about whatever we want to talk about and connect. We had one yesterday and a bunch of us were on there just talking about what vacations we're taking and a little bit about business and what we're looking at challenges right now. [00:03:14] And then we have a small, small business mastermind where we all break off and then we have a happy hour once a month. And otherwise we're just hanging out in the community, getting to know each other and asking business related questions and personal questions. And, you know, it's about, I think it's a little bit deeper than just. [00:03:30] What do you do and who do you do it for? Like the pitch does, the elevator pitch doesn't matter so much when you know somebody. Yeah. [00:03:38] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. You really addressed something there. It's this superficiality that I always hated at networking events that I felt like people were only listening to themselves talk and preparing what they're going to say next. [00:03:55] Listening to me and, you know, really having a conversation. And then [00:04:00] of course you add, you know, this was prior to COVID you add kind of like, you know, surrounding noise to it and you don't really hear one another and it was just [00:04:10] like [00:04:10] Cara: a nightmare. It is. It's a nightmare prior to COVID. I, I always loathed. [00:04:17] In person networking events, conferences and things like that, because it just, I knew I was going to end up in situations talking to people who really weren't necessarily a very strategic fit for like a strategic partner or referral partner, and that they would, like you said, just be waiting for their opportunity to say what they needed to say about their business and having a lot of surface level conversations because I think a lot of business culture requires you to leave the personal at home. [00:04:41] And I don't want to do that. I think we bring ourselves to our work and to our business, our core values, the way we operate. And I would rather, like we were talking about introverts before we hit record. Right. And I don't really consider myself an introvert, but when it comes to those kinds of things, I really act like one, because I would much rather have an [00:05:00] intimate conversation about things that matter than talk about, you know, What you do, what you do for people, because that's gonna, if you're an entrepreneur, you're going to find that out. [00:05:08] Anyway, we can't help but talk about that. Right. [00:05:10] Sarah: Yeah, yeah, no, it's so true. It's these deeper, meaningful connections and conversations and actually. Also pre COVID, um, there was this, uh, movement on, on LinkedIn, uh, called the LinkedIn local events. Yeah. And so me who always hated networking all of the sudden, I was like, well, these events kind of had a different tone because they, they came with topics and they were really open to this idea of. [00:05:40] Bring yourself to the conversation, bring the human side to the conversation. And so I actually put my hand up together with, um, another, uh, local friend here. And we started creating these LinkedIn local networking events. And, and we created themes, you know, where people would pick [00:06:00] cards and have really deep conversations and people loved it, people were like, Oh, this. [00:06:05] So different. Right. And then every now and then the person would walk in and you could tell, you know, they were like business suit and they probably had their stack of business cards and they're like, what is this? Why [00:06:17] Cara: are people doing here? It's funny. Cause I had, I used to host a speed networking event in Ravel and, um. [00:06:24] I actually, I learned this from a coaching program that I was in and they would do a lot of like more personal questions. And so I love that we only did it once a month and I was like, we need to do this more often. And so the challenge was calling it speed networking because what we actually do when you get there is break up into small little breakout rooms. [00:06:40] And I would. I would offer questions or topic starters, like what's the weirdest thing in your fridge right now? Like things that don't have anything to do with business, but you end up deciding kind of who you really mesh with and who you want to take that relationship further with and really get to know about them and their business and how you can support one another. [00:06:57] Cause you don't really want to support people you don't [00:07:00] care about. Right. So that's kind of the first step, I think, is deciding who you want to care about. Right. [00:07:05] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Before you also addressed core values. So, so huge. What do you think are the, you know, the core, or I guess there's two questions. What are the core values that we should bring to networking and why do they [00:07:21] Cara: matter so much? [00:07:23] I think we should bring our own core values to networking because the truth is we are all I like to think of them as core drivers because I think corporate culture has kind of ruined the term core values for us. We think of the little poster on the wall that doesn't really mean anything. But if you really get into your core drivers, what it means is it's what motivates you. [00:07:40] It's what drives your behavior. So my core values are freedom, authenticity and connection. And I notice when I'm in a funk or when I'm out of sorts, it's because something is going against my core values. So if you're going to network, I think you should network with people ideally who share your core values. [00:07:58] And then you'll [00:08:00] naturally network in a very comfortable way. Like when I started Ravel, I very intentionally invited, I seeded the community with women who I knew shared at least one of my core values, knowing that birds of a feather flock together. And so it worked really well because now we're up around a hundred women and anyone who's referred someone has always been an amazing fit. [00:08:18] I have to do very little background on the applicants now because if I know Maggie int introduced someone else to the group, I know Maggie and I know she's not going to introduce somebody to the group who's not a good fit because her core values align really well with mine. Yeah. So I think that makes it just so much easier to predict how someone's going to behave and what you can expect from them. [00:08:40] Sarah: Yeah, and it really defines the community, [00:08:42] Cara: right? Yeah, it makes it easier to hold that community in a shape, like my goal when I started Ravel was to create a community, just create a space and hold it in a shape, such that people would feel comfortable and vulnerable enough to connect with one another and really get to know each other. [00:08:58] And by inviting the. [00:09:00] Types of people who would be strategically aligned to be most likely to refer one another, like complimentary service providers. They're all B2B service entrepreneurs and they're women. So they have a lot in common and, you know, financial professionals who serve agencies can network with coaches who serve agencies. [00:09:17] And because they share core values, they're going to probably get along pretty well. And it makes it easy to build that kind of rapport that they need to. Want to connect with one another and see what's up in their business and say, Hey, you should talk to so and so. So it's like kind of building relationships with like the happy by product that you get referrals in business works really well. [00:09:36] Yeah. [00:09:37] Sarah: That makes a lot of sense. Usually we hear this this idea of quality over quantity. Um, you just mentioned your communities about 100 people. Um, so, so what do you think about quality over quantity in terms of the networking? Is it a, is it a numbers game or is [00:10:00] it a quality game or is it something [00:10:01] Cara: in between? [00:10:02] I think it's quality over quantity, 100%. And I think it's evolving, honestly, constantly, right? Like, so if you're, cause your business evolves, maybe you shift who you serve or how you serve that person. Um, and so maybe you have a handful of really great referral partners and. you shift your business a little bit. [00:10:21] You might have to, some of those referral partners, it might not be as strategically aligned anymore. And maybe they stay, you stay friends, but you might start looking around for different strategic partners who might be more well aligned, but it's not like you have to shift your whole network. You just start networking with a few different people and start figuring out who, who fits with you. [00:10:38] Um, and I think like a hundred is a lot of women. Like, I don't, I don't intimately know every member of the community anymore. When it was like 20 women, it was like, It was really easy. And, but what we've done is we've separated into smaller groups too. So we have a Slack channel where we have different topics. [00:10:55] We have rabble travel, and we have ADHD all day and moms. And [00:11:00] so we have these different things that we care about. And the women who gravitate to those channels tend to get to know each other well enough that. Even if they're not strategically aligned to refer one another as well as some others would be, they kind of cross pollinate between the community, the micro communities within the chant, within the community. [00:11:17] And then they say, Oh, you know who you should get to know. So there's a lot of paying it forward, introducing people to other people. That is such a, an underrated gift that you can give someone is to say, I think I know somebody who you need to know. Who would, you'd benefit from knowing each other. I mean, making a connection between two people who you think would get along is such a gift. [00:11:38] Yeah. [00:11:39] Sarah: Yeah. So true. Um, you mentioned a few times this word strategic, and I guess it's for you, it's like, well, there's a strategy to networking because again, as an introvert, This idea of networking can sometimes feel so overwhelming because we think, well, does that mean I have to network with [00:12:00] just anybody, you know, so it's like, Oh my God, I don't have the time to network with just anybody. [00:12:07] So, so what, what is a good strategy, um, that feels, you know, empathic and yet very strategic. Um, and I guess time conscious as well. [00:12:20] Cara: Yeah. Yeah. I think. Um, that's probably how most people think of it is just like, it's very overwhelming. You have to make a lot of people think there's a list you have to make and you have to contact X number of people a day. [00:12:31] And that feels very impersonal and kind of, um, like required, which doesn't feel good for a lot of people. Um, I've approached it differently. Like I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. Um, just for networking, though, I don't spend a lot of time scrolling on LinkedIn, but if I find somebody offline, say I'm listening to a podcast or reading a book or find somebody's website online while I'm Googling or going down a rabbit hole of some kind, and I feel like they are strategically aligned with my business, meaning either they're, uh, [00:13:00] Complimentary service provider. [00:13:00] So we serve the same client, but we do different things, or we are a shoulder niche peer, meaning that we do different things or do we do the same sort of thing, but for different clients. So maybe I serve, um, the financial industry and they serve, um, like agencies or something like that. And so we can refer one another because we don't really serve the same ideal client, and this requires knowing what you want and what you're good at. [00:13:24] I don't think we are all suited to do, you know, the same thing. We're, we're all so different. I think it also, I think it's a successful networking in this way requires that you don't believe in competition. We're all so different. There's so much, so many factors that we can own as, you know, authentic to who we are that maybe somebody else doesn't want to own. [00:13:45] And if we know ourselves really well, we can understand what we do best and who we are best suited to serve. And then there's just no way that somebody else is going to bring exactly the same thing to the table that we are. So. We have to kind of get rid of that idea first. And then we're free to [00:14:00] network with people who look like they do something similar to what we do, but probably don't do exactly what we do or for the same person. [00:14:07] Um, and then you can also look for people who are, um, centers of influence coaches for, if you serve entrepreneurs, maybe you're wanting to network with coaches who serve entrepreneurs, and maybe you're a done for you service provider or something like that. So they're in a position to refer you there. [00:14:24] The people you're looking for to network with are the ones who are most likely to be in a position to refer you. So not somebody who's working in a totally different industry with clients that aren't even related to you. Um, but I don't, I don't think you have to go like search for them. I think you can listen to podcasts that are interesting to you and just start taking note of. [00:14:47] Someone who's interesting to you, who you think you might like and say, is that person in a position to refer me perhaps, and then you can just reach out to that person individually. I usually on LinkedIn because it's the easiest place to get [00:15:00] really connected with somebody. Yeah, [00:15:03] Sarah: so the idea is really to find referral partners. [00:15:07] and connect with them. [00:15:09] Cara: Yeah. And to be open about it and say, Hey, I think we have a lot in common. I think we might benefit from knowing each other. Um, I like you. I like what you're doing. Let's connect and just say hi. Mm-hmm. . [00:15:20] Sarah: Yeah. Do you then stop at the, you know, first conversation or how do you. Because it, you know, we always say in networking, you have to stay top of mind. [00:15:31] So how do you stay top of mind with this [00:15:33] Cara: person then? I don't think everyone is going to stay top of mind all the time, right? Like, you're gonna, you're gonna meet a few people who you really click with. And a few people who you don't really click with. One of the reasons that I started Ravel was because it is hard to stay top of mind when we're all busy and we're all running around doing all our stuff all day long. [00:15:52] And I don't, I'm not the kind of person, let's do, we have to do what works for us, right? If you're an organized person and you like lists and you use a [00:16:00] CRM, maybe you can stay top of mind with people in your own strategic way. I can't do that. So I put everybody in a container that I like so that I can stay connected with them in a container. [00:16:12] We, we naturally stay connected because we're having calls or somebody is asking a question and we're learning more about their business that way. And we're commenting and sharing our expertise. And so I think it's about proximity. And then if you're connected with them on LinkedIn and you're following them, you might see them. [00:16:26] It's like, The top of mind thing I think is more about the mere exposure effect than, than the top, than staying top of mind. It's just staying in front of someone who you want to, to stay connected with. And you can do that in a lot of different ways just by commenting on their stuff on LinkedIn. They see you, you learn a little bit more maybe about what they do and it don't think it has to take a long time. [00:16:46] It can take five, 10 minutes to, to go on. And in the case of LinkedIn, I would say like a lot of people suggest. That you'd be connected to a ton of people and follow a ton of people. But I find that really overwhelming. So [00:17:00] I only follow and want to be connected with the people that I really want to stay connected with because then my feed isn't really overwhelming and I can just, I can see the people that I want to stay in touch with and I can comment and like, and stay. [00:17:12] In front of them. And then they remember me. [00:17:15] Sarah: Yeah. So, so, so does that mean that you actually, you know, hide some of the updates of people who you don't want to see anymore, just so not, not to. [00:17:26] Cara: I just unfollow them or disconnect. I am a little bit ruthless that way because it's, we only have so much time and I don't really want to be connected with people that don't align with me really, really well. [00:17:36] So, you know, when I. I've been on LinkedIn for a long, long time, but my, my career has evolved. You know, if the past 15 years I'm doing very different things than I was in the very beginning. And so I, when I decided to reinvest in LinkedIn as a way to connect with people, I went in and I, I had, you know, thousands of connections and I got rid of all but 400 and some odd. [00:17:57] Because it was like, if I don't want to have coffee with this [00:18:00] person, I don't need to be on LinkedIn with them. And perhaps that's different if you're not an entrepreneur and you're trying to get a job. I don't know about that, but for my situation where I want to spend time connecting and networking with people who care about the same things I care about. [00:18:18] That means there's a lot of people I don't need to connect with. And I don't want to waste my time looking at their stuff. if I don't care about it. Right. And they don't know, so it's not mean or anything. [00:18:33] Sarah: Um, yeah, it's really interesting to, to see how, you know, usually we always hear, Oh, use LinkedIn for lead generation, right? [00:18:43] Yeah, that's not how you're looking at it. You're like, well, I, Only want the people I care about. And so they, yes, they might be potential clients or they're, you know, some other level of connection or [00:18:59] [00:19:00] network. [00:19:00] Cara: That's how you. I think that's a giant, you're speaking to something that's really important that I think a lot of people miss. [00:19:05] It's a giant mistake to go into like a community or a networking container and think you're going to sell to the people in that container. You're the benefit of being in a container with a hundred women. Is the connection to the 150 other people they know that they might be able to connect you with. [00:19:24] And yes, we buy from each other. I've purchased products and services from tons of the women inside Ravel and we buy stuff. We hire each other all the time, but it's not because we're sharing our offers and trying to convince each other to buy from us. It's because we happen to know each other really well, and we have a problem and we know that person can solve it. [00:19:42] But most of the time we're introducing someone. To another person, like I'll run. I talked to a friend of mine, or I go to an event or something, and I hear somebody has a problem. And I will say, I know somebody you should talk to. Let me connect you with so and so because I know what she does. And I like her and I know she'll do a good job. [00:19:59] Right. [00:20:00] So we're, we're building the relationships. We're not selling to people and LinkedIn is You know, a breeding ground for people doing lead gen on LinkedIn. We should be doing strategic networking. [00:20:11] Sarah: Yeah, I think that that's really the, the, the difference is not thinking of everybody who is somehow looking like a client just because they, you know, have a human body that, that you think of them as your ideal client. [00:20:29] And especially if you then think of a community where Uh, you know, the minute you bring that kind of energy into a community, the community is basically, yeah, it's destined to [00:20:41] Cara: fail. I've seen it happen in Ravel a couple of times where a couple, where a couple of people have, you know, crossed that line between, Hey guys, here's what I'm doing. [00:20:49] Check it out. Cause we want to share, we want to share what we're doing and we have a space for that, you know, but, um, a couple of people have, you know, gotten a little bit salesy with it. And it's not that they [00:21:00] get slapped down or anything. It's just that nobody responds. Right. It's just not something people are looking for in a community where we're trying to build relationships. [00:21:10] But what we do is we have calls and we connect with one another and we learn what's going on. And then we will often share on another person's behalf. One of our, one of our members, Cara, Cara Hoosier, she's getting ready to publish a book and it's really exciting because she's been through an incredible journey to get where she is. [00:21:25] It's called burnt out to lit up. And it's about. preventing yourself from burning out and what to do when you get there. And she's getting ready to launch this. She's looking for people to help her, you know, do reviews and read her book. And I was super excited for her. So instead of her getting on there and she's saying, Hey guys, look at what I did. [00:21:43] I said, can I share this with the community? Because it's really awesome. And she was like, sure. And so I said, you guys look at this, our member, our fellow friend here. is publishing a book. This is so exciting. Who wants to help her? I know that anybody else in here who is publishing a book would want the community to help them too. [00:21:59] [00:22:00] And so it's a very different message when you lift up another woman, as opposed to saying, look at me. It look at her sounds a lot different than look at me. Sure. So we help each other that way. Yeah. [00:22:12] Sarah: At the same time you as the host. What would you do? And this is not to do with networking, but just as a, you know, fellow community host, what would you do with a member, you know, several times trespasses that kind of unspoken rule that we're not selling in this community? [00:22:34] What would you do? [00:22:36] Cara: We had one instance in two years. In the last two years, we've had one instance where someone really kind of did cross the line. And I wasn't online that morning, but I got a bunch of messages from other community members who were like, Hey, we don't like this. Like we got to do something about this. [00:22:52] Um, and they were upset for me because she was trying to poach a bunch of members into a different community, which I think is fine actually, because [00:23:00] it's, I mean, I don't think poaching is fine, but I think women should have more than one community. They serve different purposes. I. intentionally keep Ravel at a very reasonable price because I want to belong to many communities, and I know that other women do too. [00:23:13] Um, but the way she went about it was really kind of gross. And so I had to respond to that because the community was saying, this feels gross and we don't want to be around this. And so I did ask, I said, we're going to go ahead and Remove you because this is not how we operate in here. I wish you know, but bless and release This might just not be the right place for you Which is important to remember because there are people have different core values people believe different things They operate different ways and just because she doesn't operate the way that we want to operate doesn't mean there's not a place Where that's totally fine for people to do, bless and release. [00:23:46] Um, so it's really more of like the community managing itself. I don't moderate and I don't tell them what they can and can't do. [00:23:54] Sarah: So, yeah, but in a way it's beautiful to have them, you know, kind of [00:24:00] show up and say, Hey, this is not how, this is not how we run here. [00:24:05] Cara: And yeah. And yeah. And that's my whole goal with the community is I don't, I'm not a coach. [00:24:10] I don't. Sell them anything other than the place inside the community, like the space. And so that's what, how I view it is. And I mean, we're kind of getting away from networking into community at this point, but I view it as myself just holding space in a particular shape. And that's my job is to make sure this play, this space is safe and a good place for people to be vulnerable and build relationships. [00:24:31] And if they can't do that, I'm not doing my job. So it has to be a safe space online. Yeah, yeah, [00:24:39] Sarah: that's beautiful. Yeah, we kind of meshed community with networking, but that's what [00:24:45] Cara: you're, that's what it is, right? Yeah, it, if when you're networking, you're building community. It just may not have a specific container it lives in. [00:24:54] Sarah: Yeah. And I also think. If we're changing that [00:25:00] term of networking into net weaving, then that's what we're really doing in a community is weaving a web together because the whole definition of a community is people being connected with each other. Not just to you as the host, right? [00:25:17] Cara: Totally. Yeah. And, and I, and this is why I use Slack, but I pay for the analytics. [00:25:23] I could use it for free, but I want to see what's happening behind the scenes, which is valuable because more than 50 percent of the conversations that are happening inside the community are in the DMs. And I know I'm not having that many conversations. There are thousands of conversations happening during the month. [00:25:36] And I know I'm not having that many. So there are a lot of private conversations happening and partnerships. Um, I introduced a couple of gals recently who are now partnering in business and, and they're super excited and doing some really amazing things. And I know that has nothing to do with me, but we're weaving. [00:25:54] These connections, not just for us, but for other people as well. And I think not, you don't even have [00:26:00] to, like, we can think of containers as smaller things, even text threads between two people or three people. Like if I have several people I want to connect with, because we all live locally, we're on a text thread together and the three of us send funny memes to one another. [00:26:12] And it doesn't have to do with business all the time. Yeah, [00:26:16] Sarah: I agree with that. It can also be more fun, right? It [00:26:18] Cara: should be more fun. Don't you think we should have more fun? I need more fun. [00:26:25] Sarah: Um, Yeah, maybe, maybe that's a good way to close with the, with the fun networking. Um, but maybe just also for people who right now, you know, there's so many communities out there yet, yet they're like, well, I don't either, I don't have the funds or I just can't decide which one to join. [00:26:45] So how can you start networking with that community as, or with that community notion without being in a community? What kind of advice would [00:26:55] Cara: you give? Um, I would say, I would say just [00:27:00] start connecting with people you enjoy. I listen to a lot of podcasts and I reach out to people who I think are excellent, either hosts or, um, interviewees, guests. [00:27:10] And I just tell them, I really, I like just start, start connecting directly with people that you admire, or you think have something interesting to say that you align with. Um, because like, there's that thing homophily, we're attracted to things that are similar to what we love or, or who we are. And so we're, they're going to be attracted to you. [00:27:28] If you share something either, I mean, location's really obvious, but beyond that, like core values or a mission or a purpose or something like that, like, I think you and I initially got connected on LinkedIn long, long ago, because I heard your podcast. And I was like, I, you're doing awesome things. We need to be connected. [00:27:45] And like, it didn't go anywhere for a long time. We had a little back and forth on, on LinkedIn, but eventually here we are trading podcast interviews. And so I think being in it for the long game and having conversations in the DMs, not expecting every [00:28:00] conversation to go somewhere, but being open to it going somewhere. [00:28:04] Yeah. [00:28:04] Sarah: And probably also not coming with this expectation that. Everyone you reach out to is gonna open your, their calendar [00:28:13] Cara: to you, you know, like, yeah, like when we connected initially, I was not expecting a one to one call. I, we live across the country, across the world from one another and we're both busy and eventually maybe we connect, but I genuinely just wanted to tell you that I really like what you're doing. [00:28:30] And I think that's people want to hear that it's people are open to hearing that you agree with them and that you like what they're doing. And if that's all it is, you've put some good energy out in the world and you can leave it at that. Right, [00:28:41] Sarah: exactly. It doesn't doesn't have to become a lead generation. [00:28:45] Cara: Yeah, it doesn't have to even become like a really intense networking like relationship there. We're going to have this whole gamut of closeness in our network, right? And we don't have the capacity to be really close. With a bunch of bunch of people like [00:29:00] 510 people, we're going to be really close with. [00:29:02] Um, and if we're all running in roughly the same circles, there's going to be opportunities for collaboration and referrals and those things. So it's a little bit of a leap of faith, but you got to just trust that if you're doing good work and you're helping people and people know you do it, that they're going to tell somebody exactly [00:29:20] Sarah: plant those seeds. [00:29:21] Yes, that's wonderful. Well, do you tell us a bit more about rattle and your community [00:29:28] Cara: and where people can find it? Yeah. The website is ravelcollective. com and it's for women B2B service entrepreneurs. So financial professionals, lots of marketers, content writers, stuff like that. Consultants. We've got some coaches, some, um, coaches for women entrepreneurs, and it's just a networking community, a really casual networking community where we Get to know each other. [00:29:50] A bunch of us are going to Mexico in a month together. I haven't met three of them, but I, and it's not an official event. I just said, Hey, I'm going to go to Mexico for a week and [00:30:00] do some like 2024 business planning. If anybody wants to join me, I've rented this house. And so it's not, you know, we probably won't talk business all the time, but. [00:30:09] It'll be fun. So we're kind of trying to put some of the fun and like person to person relationship back into business so that we can rely on, I don't know, our, our relationships to sustain us instead of, you know, just relying on ourselves. So yeah, it's 39 a month and it's month to month and it's just a space that I'm holding for women who want to build more professional relationships. [00:30:34] Sarah: We'll make sure to link to it. I always have one last question, uh, Cara, and that's, what are you grateful for today or this week, this month? [00:30:45] Cara: Oh my goodness. I think I'm most grateful for my family this week. It's there's a lot of, there's a lot of lonely people out there and I have a wonderful husband and a, an amazing son and I'm really [00:31:00] grateful for them. [00:31:02] Wonderful. [00:31:03] Thank you for having me.

In this episode of the Humane Marketing podcast, we venture into the 'P' of People as part of our ongoing exploration of the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. Join me in a conversation with Cara Steinmann, the visionary founder of the Ravel Collective and host of the Ravel Radio podcast. Together, we delve into the art of authentic networking, emphasizing the importance of core values, unconventional approaches on LinkedIn, and the profound impact of empathy on your business relationships. Discover new insights that could transform the way you approach human connections and meaningful networking. In this episode, Cara and I discuss: Her experience with traditional networking and how she redefined it How to bring our core values to our networking How Cara uses LinkedIn to create connections, but not with a lead-generation mindset Networking for introverts How to be intentional when networking The importance of quality over quantity And so much more Ep 174 [00:00:00] Sarah: Hi, Cara. So nice to meet. Hi, you. [00:00:04] Cara: Good to see you, Sarah. How's it going? I'm good, thank you. [00:00:08] Sarah: Thanks for having me. Yeah, I really look forward to this conversation with you. I was on your podcast recently and we really [00:00:15] Cara: we're [00:00:16] Sarah: aligned, so I'm glad we have you on the humane part, marketing podcast, and talking about networking. [00:00:23] Right? So that's kind of your. Specialty and, uh, yeah, I want to just go dive right in. So tell me how did you come to make networking part of your specialty? And how did you build a community around networking? Why is networking so important to [00:00:45] Cara: you? It was kind of an accident because I don't really think of myself as a networking person and I think a lot of people probably feel that way because there's this connotation around networking that it's sort of like very businessy and very like you imagine yourself in a [00:01:00] room with very professional people and you're handing out business cards and you're talking about things that are very business related, but I think in my life, uh, in my career, I've sort of acted more as just a connector. [00:01:12] I think of it as connecting with people and building relationships. And that's usually not on a grand scale. It's one person at a time, usually in a one to one conversation. And it doesn't feel like what you would imagine networking to be. So I think maybe a little shift in the way we think about networking can help a lot of us who don't like that whole, you know, big corporate business vibe and really care more about. [00:01:36] One to one relationships and what goes on beyond the business. Yeah. [00:01:40] Sarah: That's already such a, a shift when you say relationship building versus networking. Mm-hmm. has that term work in it. Right. And so it feels like I'm the one going into this crowd and I have to work my way through it. Like, and, and yeah. [00:01:58] Collect the business cards [00:02:00] and you know, it's kind of like, yeah. [00:02:01] Cara: That, and I think. Be I think expanding our understanding of network be working beyond or even relationship building beyond thinking of who we are going to build relationships with to thinking about who we can connect so they can build relationships, because then you expand your network exponentially because then they also. [00:02:23] They also consider you part of their and both of you're part of both of their network. And then they're connecting. And then when they meet new people, they want to introduce you. So it's kind of kind of like weaving a web of connection with people that you genuinely want to talk to and spend time with and respect. [00:02:37] Sarah: It's funny you guys use that term weaving because in our community, uh, we have. One of the calls that is kind of like a networking call, um, but we actually call it net weaving. So I love that it's this idea of, yeah, we're together and we're getting to know one another, but we're weaving, uh, these [00:03:00] relationships. [00:03:00] Cara: And yeah, I love that. Yeah, we unravel. We have connection calls that are just to talk about whatever we want to talk about and connect. We had one yesterday and a bunch of us were on there just talking about what vacations we're taking and a little bit about business and what we're looking at challenges right now. [00:03:14] And then we have a small, small business mastermind where we all break off and then we have a happy hour once a month. And otherwise we're just hanging out in the community, getting to know each other and asking business related questions and personal questions. And, you know, it's about, I think it's a little bit deeper than just. [00:03:30] What do you do and who do you do it for? Like the pitch does, the elevator pitch doesn't matter so much when you know somebody. Yeah. [00:03:38] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. You really addressed something there. It's this superficiality that I always hated at networking events that I felt like people were only listening to themselves talk and preparing what they're going to say next. [00:03:55] Listening to me and, you know, really having a conversation. And then [00:04:00] of course you add, you know, this was prior to COVID you add kind of like, you know, surrounding noise to it and you don't really hear one another and it was just [00:04:10] like [00:04:10] Cara: a nightmare. It is. It's a nightmare prior to COVID. I, I always loathed. [00:04:17] In person networking events, conferences and things like that, because it just, I knew I was going to end up in situations talking to people who really weren't necessarily a very strategic fit for like a strategic partner or referral partner, and that they would, like you said, just be waiting for their opportunity to say what they needed to say about their business and having a lot of surface level conversations because I think a lot of business culture requires you to leave the personal at home. [00:04:41] And I don't want to do that. I think we bring ourselves to our work and to our business, our core values, the way we operate. And I would rather, like we were talking about introverts before we hit record. Right. And I don't really consider myself an introvert, but when it comes to those kinds of things, I really act like one, because I would much rather have an [00:05:00] intimate conversation about things that matter than talk about, you know, What you do, what you do for people, because that's gonna, if you're an entrepreneur, you're going to find that out. [00:05:08] Anyway, we can't help but talk about that. Right. [00:05:10] Sarah: Yeah, yeah, no, it's so true. It's these deeper, meaningful connections and conversations and actually. Also pre COVID, um, there was this, uh, movement on, on LinkedIn, uh, called the LinkedIn local events. Yeah. And so me who always hated networking all of the sudden, I was like, well, these events kind of had a different tone because they, they came with topics and they were really open to this idea of. [00:05:40] Bring yourself to the conversation, bring the human side to the conversation. And so I actually put my hand up together with, um, another, uh, local friend here. And we started creating these LinkedIn local networking events. And, and we created themes, you know, where people would pick [00:06:00] cards and have really deep conversations and people loved it, people were like, Oh, this. [00:06:05] So different. Right. And then every now and then the person would walk in and you could tell, you know, they were like business suit and they probably had their stack of business cards and they're like, what is this? Why [00:06:17] Cara: are people doing here? It's funny. Cause I had, I used to host a speed networking event in Ravel and, um. [00:06:24] I actually, I learned this from a coaching program that I was in and they would do a lot of like more personal questions. And so I love that we only did it once a month and I was like, we need to do this more often. And so the challenge was calling it speed networking because what we actually do when you get there is break up into small little breakout rooms. [00:06:40] And I would. I would offer questions or topic starters, like what's the weirdest thing in your fridge right now? Like things that don't have anything to do with business, but you end up deciding kind of who you really mesh with and who you want to take that relationship further with and really get to know about them and their business and how you can support one another. [00:06:57] Cause you don't really want to support people you don't [00:07:00] care about. Right. So that's kind of the first step, I think, is deciding who you want to care about. Right. [00:07:05] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Before you also addressed core values. So, so huge. What do you think are the, you know, the core, or I guess there's two questions. What are the core values that we should bring to networking and why do they [00:07:21] Cara: matter so much? [00:07:23] I think we should bring our own core values to networking because the truth is we are all I like to think of them as core drivers because I think corporate culture has kind of ruined the term core values for us. We think of the little poster on the wall that doesn't really mean anything. But if you really get into your core drivers, what it means is it's what motivates you. [00:07:40] It's what drives your behavior. So my core values are freedom, authenticity and connection. And I notice when I'm in a funk or when I'm out of sorts, it's because something is going against my core values. So if you're going to network, I think you should network with people ideally who share your core values. [00:07:58] And then you'll [00:08:00] naturally network in a very comfortable way. Like when I started Ravel, I very intentionally invited, I seeded the community with women who I knew shared at least one of my core values, knowing that birds of a feather flock together. And so it worked really well because now we're up around a hundred women and anyone who's referred someone has always been an amazing fit. [00:08:18] I have to do very little background on the applicants now because if I know Maggie int introduced someone else to the group, I know Maggie and I know she's not going to introduce somebody to the group who's not a good fit because her core values align really well with mine. Yeah. So I think that makes it just so much easier to predict how someone's going to behave and what you can expect from them. [00:08:40] Sarah: Yeah, and it really defines the community, [00:08:42] Cara: right? Yeah, it makes it easier to hold that community in a shape, like my goal when I started Ravel was to create a community, just create a space and hold it in a shape, such that people would feel comfortable and vulnerable enough to connect with one another and really get to know each other. [00:08:58] And by inviting the. [00:09:00] Types of people who would be strategically aligned to be most likely to refer one another, like complimentary service providers. They're all B2B service entrepreneurs and they're women. So they have a lot in common and, you know, financial professionals who serve agencies can network with coaches who serve agencies. [00:09:17] And because they share core values, they're going to probably get along pretty well. And it makes it easy to build that kind of rapport that they need to. Want to connect with one another and see what's up in their business and say, Hey, you should talk to so and so. So it's like kind of building relationships with like the happy by product that you get referrals in business works really well. [00:09:36] Yeah. [00:09:37] Sarah: That makes a lot of sense. Usually we hear this this idea of quality over quantity. Um, you just mentioned your communities about 100 people. Um, so, so what do you think about quality over quantity in terms of the networking? Is it a, is it a numbers game or is [00:10:00] it a quality game or is it something [00:10:01] Cara: in between? [00:10:02] I think it's quality over quantity, 100%. And I think it's evolving, honestly, constantly, right? Like, so if you're, cause your business evolves, maybe you shift who you serve or how you serve that person. Um, and so maybe you have a handful of really great referral partners and. you shift your business a little bit. [00:10:21] You might have to, some of those referral partners, it might not be as strategically aligned anymore. And maybe they stay, you stay friends, but you might start looking around for different strategic partners who might be more well aligned, but it's not like you have to shift your whole network. You just start networking with a few different people and start figuring out who, who fits with you. [00:10:38] Um, and I think like a hundred is a lot of women. Like, I don't, I don't intimately know every member of the community anymore. When it was like 20 women, it was like, It was really easy. And, but what we've done is we've separated into smaller groups too. So we have a Slack channel where we have different topics. [00:10:55] We have rabble travel, and we have ADHD all day and moms. And [00:11:00] so we have these different things that we care about. And the women who gravitate to those channels tend to get to know each other well enough that. Even if they're not strategically aligned to refer one another as well as some others would be, they kind of cross pollinate between the community, the micro communities within the chant, within the community. [00:11:17] And then they say, Oh, you know who you should get to know. So there's a lot of paying it forward, introducing people to other people. That is such a, an underrated gift that you can give someone is to say, I think I know somebody who you need to know. Who would, you'd benefit from knowing each other. I mean, making a connection between two people who you think would get along is such a gift. [00:11:38] Yeah. [00:11:39] Sarah: Yeah. So true. Um, you mentioned a few times this word strategic, and I guess it's for you, it's like, well, there's a strategy to networking because again, as an introvert, This idea of networking can sometimes feel so overwhelming because we think, well, does that mean I have to network with [00:12:00] just anybody, you know, so it's like, Oh my God, I don't have the time to network with just anybody. [00:12:07] So, so what, what is a good strategy, um, that feels, you know, empathic and yet very strategic. Um, and I guess time conscious as well. [00:12:20] Cara: Yeah. Yeah. I think. Um, that's probably how most people think of it is just like, it's very overwhelming. You have to make a lot of people think there's a list you have to make and you have to contact X number of people a day. [00:12:31] And that feels very impersonal and kind of, um, like required, which doesn't feel good for a lot of people. Um, I've approached it differently. Like I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. Um, just for networking, though, I don't spend a lot of time scrolling on LinkedIn, but if I find somebody offline, say I'm listening to a podcast or reading a book or find somebody's website online while I'm Googling or going down a rabbit hole of some kind, and I feel like they are strategically aligned with my business, meaning either they're, uh, [00:13:00] Complimentary service provider. [00:13:00] So we serve the same client, but we do different things, or we are a shoulder niche peer, meaning that we do different things or do we do the same sort of thing, but for different clients. So maybe I serve, um, the financial industry and they serve, um, like agencies or something like that. And so we can refer one another because we don't really serve the same ideal client, and this requires knowing what you want and what you're good at. [00:13:24] I don't think we are all suited to do, you know, the same thing. We're, we're all so different. I think it also, I think it's a successful networking in this way requires that you don't believe in competition. We're all so different. There's so much, so many factors that we can own as, you know, authentic to who we are that maybe somebody else doesn't want to own. [00:13:45] And if we know ourselves really well, we can understand what we do best and who we are best suited to serve. And then there's just no way that somebody else is going to bring exactly the same thing to the table that we are. So. We have to kind of get rid of that idea first. And then we're free to [00:14:00] network with people who look like they do something similar to what we do, but probably don't do exactly what we do or for the same person. [00:14:07] Um, and then you can also look for people who are, um, centers of influence coaches for, if you serve entrepreneurs, maybe you're wanting to network with coaches who serve entrepreneurs, and maybe you're a done for you service provider or something like that. So they're in a position to refer you there. [00:14:24] The people you're looking for to network with are the ones who are most likely to be in a position to refer you. So not somebody who's working in a totally different industry with clients that aren't even related to you. Um, but I don't, I don't think you have to go like search for them. I think you can listen to podcasts that are interesting to you and just start taking note of. [00:14:47] Someone who's interesting to you, who you think you might like and say, is that person in a position to refer me perhaps, and then you can just reach out to that person individually. I usually on LinkedIn because it's the easiest place to get [00:15:00] really connected with somebody. Yeah, [00:15:03] Sarah: so the idea is really to find referral partners. [00:15:07] and connect with them. [00:15:09] Cara: Yeah. And to be open about it and say, Hey, I think we have a lot in common. I think we might benefit from knowing each other. Um, I like you. I like what you're doing. Let's connect and just say hi. Mm-hmm. . [00:15:20] Sarah: Yeah. Do you then stop at the, you know, first conversation or how do you. Because it, you know, we always say in networking, you have to stay top of mind. [00:15:31] So how do you stay top of mind with this [00:15:33] Cara: person then? I don't think everyone is going to stay top of mind all the time, right? Like, you're gonna, you're gonna meet a few people who you really click with. And a few people who you don't really click with. One of the reasons that I started Ravel was because it is hard to stay top of mind when we're all busy and we're all running around doing all our stuff all day long. [00:15:52] And I don't, I'm not the kind of person, let's do, we have to do what works for us, right? If you're an organized person and you like lists and you use a [00:16:00] CRM, maybe you can stay top of mind with people in your own strategic way. I can't do that. So I put everybody in a container that I like so that I can stay connected with them in a container. [00:16:12] We, we naturally stay connected because we're having calls or somebody is asking a question and we're learning more about their business that way. And we're commenting and sharing our expertise. And so I think it's about proximity. And then if you're connected with them on LinkedIn and you're following them, you might see them. [00:16:26] It's like, The top of mind thing I think is more about the mere exposure effect than, than the top, than staying top of mind. It's just staying in front of someone who you want to, to stay connected with. And you can do that in a lot of different ways just by commenting on their stuff on LinkedIn. They see you, you learn a little bit more maybe about what they do and it don't think it has to take a long time. [00:16:46] It can take five, 10 minutes to, to go on. And in the case of LinkedIn, I would say like a lot of people suggest. That you'd be connected to a ton of people and follow a ton of people. But I find that really overwhelming. So [00:17:00] I only follow and want to be connected with the people that I really want to stay connected with because then my feed isn't really overwhelming and I can just, I can see the people that I want to stay in touch with and I can comment and like, and stay. [00:17:12] In front of them. And then they remember me. [00:17:15] Sarah: Yeah. So, so, so does that mean that you actually, you know, hide some of the updates of people who you don't want to see anymore, just so not, not to. [00:17:26] Cara: I just unfollow them or disconnect. I am a little bit ruthless that way because it's, we only have so much time and I don't really want to be connected with people that don't align with me really, really well. [00:17:36] So, you know, when I. I've been on LinkedIn for a long, long time, but my, my career has evolved. You know, if the past 15 years I'm doing very different things than I was in the very beginning. And so I, when I decided to reinvest in LinkedIn as a way to connect with people, I went in and I, I had, you know, thousands of connections and I got rid of all but 400 and some odd. [00:17:57] Because it was like, if I don't want to have coffee with this [00:18:00] person, I don't need to be on LinkedIn with them. And perhaps that's different if you're not an entrepreneur and you're trying to get a job. I don't know about that, but for my situation where I want to spend time connecting and networking with people who care about the same things I care about. [00:18:18] That means there's a lot of people I don't need to connect with. And I don't want to waste my time looking at their stuff. if I don't care about it. Right. And they don't know, so it's not mean or anything. [00:18:33] Sarah: Um, yeah, it's really interesting to, to see how, you know, usually we always hear, Oh, use LinkedIn for lead generation, right? [00:18:43] Yeah, that's not how you're looking at it. You're like, well, I, Only want the people I care about. And so they, yes, they might be potential clients or they're, you know, some other level of connection or [00:18:59] [00:19:00] network. [00:19:00] Cara: That's how you. I think that's a giant, you're speaking to something that's really important that I think a lot of people miss. [00:19:05] It's a giant mistake to go into like a community or a networking container and think you're going to sell to the people in that container. You're the benefit of being in a container with a hundred women. Is the connection to the 150 other people they know that they might be able to connect you with. [00:19:24] And yes, we buy from each other. I've purchased products and services from tons of the women inside Ravel and we buy stuff. We hire each other all the time, but it's not because we're sharing our offers and trying to convince each other to buy from us. It's because we happen to know each other really well, and we have a problem and we know that person can solve it. [00:19:42] But most of the time we're introducing someone. To another person, like I'll run. I talked to a friend of mine, or I go to an event or something, and I hear somebody has a problem. And I will say, I know somebody you should talk to. Let me connect you with so and so because I know what she does. And I like her and I know she'll do a good job. [00:19:59] Right. [00:20:00] So we're, we're building the relationships. We're not selling to people and LinkedIn is You know, a breeding ground for people doing lead gen on LinkedIn. We should be doing strategic networking. [00:20:11] Sarah: Yeah, I think that that's really the, the, the difference is not thinking of everybody who is somehow looking like a client just because they, you know, have a human body that, that you think of them as your ideal client. [00:20:29] And especially if you then think of a community where Uh, you know, the minute you bring that kind of energy into a community, the community is basically, yeah, it's destined to [00:20:41] Cara: fail. I've seen it happen in Ravel a couple of times where a couple, where a couple of people have, you know, crossed that line between, Hey guys, here's what I'm doing. [00:20:49] Check it out. Cause we want to share, we want to share what we're doing and we have a space for that, you know, but, um, a couple of people have, you know, gotten a little bit salesy with it. And it's not that they [00:21:00] get slapped down or anything. It's just that nobody responds. Right. It's just not something people are looking for in a community where we're trying to build relationships. [00:21:10] But what we do is we have calls and we connect with one another and we learn what's going on. And then we will often share on another person's behalf. One of our, one of our members, Cara, Cara Hoosier, she's getting ready to publish a book and it's really exciting because she's been through an incredible journey to get where she is. [00:21:25] It's called burnt out to lit up. And it's about. preventing yourself from burning out and what to do when you get there. And she's getting ready to launch this. She's looking for people to help her, you know, do reviews and read her book. And I was super excited for her. So instead of her getting on there and she's saying, Hey guys, look at what I did. [00:21:43] I said, can I share this with the community? Because it's really awesome. And she was like, sure. And so I said, you guys look at this, our member, our fellow friend here. is publishing a book. This is so exciting. Who wants to help her? I know that anybody else in here who is publishing a book would want the community to help them too. [00:21:59] [00:22:00] And so it's a very different message when you lift up another woman, as opposed to saying, look at me. It look at her sounds a lot different than look at me. Sure. So we help each other that way. Yeah. [00:22:12] Sarah: At the same time you as the host. What would you do? And this is not to do with networking, but just as a, you know, fellow community host, what would you do with a member, you know, several times trespasses that kind of unspoken rule that we're not selling in this community? [00:22:34] What would you do? [00:22:36] Cara: We had one instance in two years. In the last two years, we've had one instance where someone really kind of did cross the line. And I wasn't online that morning, but I got a bunch of messages from other community members who were like, Hey, we don't like this. Like we got to do something about this. [00:22:52] Um, and they were upset for me because she was trying to poach a bunch of members into a different community, which I think is fine actually, because [00:23:00] it's, I mean, I don't think poaching is fine, but I think women should have more than one community. They serve different purposes. I. intentionally keep Ravel at a very reasonable price because I want to belong to many communities, and I know that other women do too. [00:23:13] Um, but the way she went about it was really kind of gross. And so I had to respond to that because the community was saying, this feels gross and we don't want to be around this. And so I did ask, I said, we're going to go ahead and Remove you because this is not how we operate in here. I wish you know, but bless and release This might just not be the right place for you Which is important to remember because there are people have different core values people believe different things They operate different ways and just because she doesn't operate the way that we want to operate doesn't mean there's not a place Where that's totally fine for people to do, bless and release. [00:23:46] Um, so it's really more of like the community managing itself. I don't moderate and I don't tell them what they can and can't do. [00:23:54] Sarah: So, yeah, but in a way it's beautiful to have them, you know, kind of [00:24:00] show up and say, Hey, this is not how, this is not how we run here. [00:24:05] Cara: And yeah. And yeah. And that's my whole goal with the community is I don't, I'm not a coach. [00:24:10] I don't. Sell them anything other than the place inside the community, like the space. And so that's what, how I view it is. And I mean, we're kind of getting away from networking into community at this point, but I view it as myself just holding space in a particular shape. And that's my job is to make sure this play, this space is safe and a good place for people to be vulnerable and build relationships. [00:24:31] And if they can't do that, I'm not doing my job. So it has to be a safe space online. Yeah, yeah, [00:24:39] Sarah: that's beautiful. Yeah, we kind of meshed community with networking, but that's what [00:24:45] Cara: you're, that's what it is, right? Yeah, it, if when you're networking, you're building community. It just may not have a specific container it lives in. [00:24:54] Sarah: Yeah. And I also think. If we're changing that [00:25:00] term of networking into net weaving, then that's what we're really doing in a community is weaving a web together because the whole definition of a community is people being connected with each other. Not just to you as the host, right? [00:25:17] Cara: Totally. Yeah. And, and I, and this is why I use Slack, but I pay for the analytics. [00:25:23] I could use it for free, but I want to see what's happening behind the scenes, which is valuable because more than 50 percent of the conversations that are happening inside the community are in the DMs. And I know I'm not having that many conversations. There are thousands of conversations happening during the month. [00:25:36] And I know I'm not having that many. So there are a lot of private conversations happening and partnerships. Um, I introduced a couple of gals recently who are now partnering in business and, and they're super excited and doing some really amazing things. And I know that has nothing to do with me, but we're weaving. [00:25:54] These connections, not just for us, but for other people as well. And I think not, you don't even have [00:26:00] to, like, we can think of containers as smaller things, even text threads between two people or three people. Like if I have several people I want to connect with, because we all live locally, we're on a text thread together and the three of us send funny memes to one another. [00:26:12] And it doesn't have to do with business all the time. Yeah, [00:26:16] Sarah: I agree with that. It can also be more fun, right? It [00:26:18] Cara: should be more fun. Don't you think we should have more fun? I need more fun. [00:26:25] Sarah: Um, Yeah, maybe, maybe that's a good way to close with the, with the fun networking. Um, but maybe just also for people who right now, you know, there's so many communities out there yet, yet they're like, well, I don't either, I don't have the funds or I just can't decide which one to join. [00:26:45] So how can you start networking with that community as, or with that community notion without being in a community? What kind of advice would [00:26:55] Cara: you give? Um, I would say, I would say just [00:27:00] start connecting with people you enjoy. I listen to a lot of podcasts and I reach out to people who I think are excellent, either hosts or, um, interviewees, guests. [00:27:10] And I just tell them, I really, I like just start, start connecting directly with people that you admire, or you think have something interesting to say that you align with. Um, because like, there's that thing homophily, we're attracted to things that are similar to what we love or, or who we are. And so we're, they're going to be attracted to you. [00:27:28] If you share something either, I mean, location's really obvious, but beyond that, like core values or a mission or a purpose or something like that, like, I think you and I initially got connected on LinkedIn long, long ago, because I heard your podcast. And I was like, I, you're doing awesome things. We need to be connected. [00:27:45] And like, it didn't go anywhere for a long time. We had a little back and forth on, on LinkedIn, but eventually here we are trading podcast interviews. And so I think being in it for the long game and having conversations in the DMs, not expecting every [00:28:00] conversation to go somewhere, but being open to it going somewhere. [00:28:04] Yeah. [00:28:04] Sarah: And probably also not coming with this expectation that. Everyone you reach out to is gonna open your, their calendar [00:28:13] Cara: to you, you know, like, yeah, like when we connected initially, I was not expecting a one to one call. I, we live across the country, across the world from one another and we're both busy and eventually maybe we connect, but I genuinely just wanted to tell you that I really like what you're doing. [00:28:30] And I think that's people want to hear that it's people are open to hearing that you agree with them and that you like what they're doing. And if that's all it is, you've put some good energy out in the world and you can leave it at that. Right, [00:28:41] Sarah: exactly. It doesn't doesn't have to become a lead generation. [00:28:45] Cara: Yeah, it doesn't have to even become like a really intense networking like relationship there. We're going to have this whole gamut of closeness in our network, right? And we don't have the capacity to be really close. With a bunch of bunch of people like [00:29:00] 510 people, we're going to be really close with. [00:29:02] Um, and if we're all running in roughly the same circles, there's going to be opportunities for collaboration and referrals and those things. So it's a little bit of a leap of faith, but you got to just trust that if you're doing good work and you're helping people and people know you do it, that they're going to tell somebody exactly [00:29:20] Sarah: plant those seeds. [00:29:21] Yes, that's wonderful. Well, do you tell us a bit more about rattle and your community [00:29:28] Cara: and where people can find it? Yeah. The website is ravelcollective. com and it's for women B2B service entrepreneurs. So financial professionals, lots of marketers, content writers, stuff like that. Consultants. We've got some coaches, some, um, coaches for women entrepreneurs, and it's just a networking community, a really casual networking community where we Get to know each other. [00:29:50] A bunch of us are going to Mexico in a month together. I haven't met three of them, but I, and it's not an official event. I just said, Hey, I'm going to go to Mexico for a week and [00:30:00] do some like 2024 business planning. If anybody wants to join me, I've rented this house. And so it's not, you know, we probably won't talk business all the time, but. [00:30:09] It'll be fun. So we're kind of trying to put some of the fun and like person to person relationship back into business so that we can rely on, I don't know, our, our relationships to sustain us instead of, you know, just relying on ourselves. So yeah, it's 39 a month and it's month to month and it's just a space that I'm holding for women who want to build more professional relationships. [00:30:34] Sarah: We'll make sure to link to it. I always have one last question, uh, Cara, and that's, what are you grateful for today or this week, this month? [00:30:45] Cara: Oh my goodness. I think I'm most grateful for my family this week. It's there's a lot of, there's a lot of lonely people out there and I have a wonderful husband and a, an amazing son and I'm really [00:31:00] grateful for them. [00:31:02] Wonderful. [00:31:03] Thank you for having me.

In this episode of the Humane Marketing podcast, we venture into the 'P' of People as part of our ongoing exploration of the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. Join me in a conversation with Cara Steinmann, the visionary founder of the Ravel Collective and host of the Ravel Radio podcast. Together, we delve into the art of authentic networking, emphasizing the importance of core values, unconventional approaches on LinkedIn, and the profound impact of empathy on your business relationships. Discover new insights that could transform the way you approach human connections and meaningful networking. In this episode, Cara and I discuss: Her experience with traditional networking and how she redefined it How to bring our core values to our networking How Cara uses LinkedIn to create connections, but not with a lead-generation mindset Networking for introverts How to be intentional when networking The importance of quality over quantity And so much more Ep 174 [00:00:00] Sarah: Hi, Cara. So nice to meet. Hi, you. [00:00:04] Cara: Good to see you, Sarah. How's it going? I'm good, thank you. [00:00:08] Sarah: Thanks for having me. Yeah, I really look forward to this conversation with you. I was on your podcast recently and we really [00:00:15] Cara: we're [00:00:16] Sarah: aligned, so I'm glad we have you on the humane part, marketing podcast, and talking about networking. [00:00:23] Right? So that's kind of your. Specialty and, uh, yeah, I want to just go dive right in. So tell me how did you come to make networking part of your specialty? And how did you build a community around networking? Why is networking so important to [00:00:45] Cara: you? It was kind of an accident because I don't really think of myself as a networking person and I think a lot of people probably feel that way because there's this connotation around networking that it's sort of like very businessy and very like you imagine yourself in a [00:01:00] room with very professional people and you're handing out business cards and you're talking about things that are very business related, but I think in my life, uh, in my career, I've sort of acted more as just a connector. [00:01:12] I think of it as connecting with people and building relationships. And that's usually not on a grand scale. It's one person at a time, usually in a one to one conversation. And it doesn't feel like what you would imagine networking to be. So I think maybe a little shift in the way we think about networking can help a lot of us who don't like that whole, you know, big corporate business vibe and really care more about. [00:01:36] One to one relationships and what goes on beyond the business. Yeah. [00:01:40] Sarah: That's already such a, a shift when you say relationship building versus networking. Mm-hmm. has that term work in it. Right. And so it feels like I'm the one going into this crowd and I have to work my way through it. Like, and, and yeah. [00:01:58] Collect the business cards [00:02:00] and you know, it's kind of like, yeah. [00:02:01] Cara: That, and I think. Be I think expanding our understanding of network be working beyond or even relationship building beyond thinking of who we are going to build relationships with to thinking about who we can connect so they can build relationships, because then you expand your network exponentially because then they also. [00:02:23] They also consider you part of their and both of you're part of both of their network. And then they're connecting. And then when they meet new people, they want to introduce you. So it's kind of kind of like weaving a web of connection with people that you genuinely want to talk to and spend time with and respect. [00:02:37] Sarah: It's funny you guys use that term weaving because in our community, uh, we have. One of the calls that is kind of like a networking call, um, but we actually call it net weaving. So I love that it's this idea of, yeah, we're together and we're getting to know one another, but we're weaving, uh, these [00:03:00] relationships. [00:03:00] Cara: And yeah, I love that. Yeah, we unravel. We have connection calls that are just to talk about whatever we want to talk about and connect. We had one yesterday and a bunch of us were on there just talking about what vacations we're taking and a little bit about business and what we're looking at challenges right now. [00:03:14] And then we have a small, small business mastermind where we all break off and then we have a happy hour once a month. And otherwise we're just hanging out in the community, getting to know each other and asking business related questions and personal questions. And, you know, it's about, I think it's a little bit deeper than just. [00:03:30] What do you do and who do you do it for? Like the pitch does, the elevator pitch doesn't matter so much when you know somebody. Yeah. [00:03:38] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. You really addressed something there. It's this superficiality that I always hated at networking events that I felt like people were only listening to themselves talk and preparing what they're going to say next. [00:03:55] Listening to me and, you know, really having a conversation. And then [00:04:00] of course you add, you know, this was prior to COVID you add kind of like, you know, surrounding noise to it and you don't really hear one another and it was just [00:04:10] like [00:04:10] Cara: a nightmare. It is. It's a nightmare prior to COVID. I, I always loathed. [00:04:17] In person networking events, conferences and things like that, because it just, I knew I was going to end up in situations talking to people who really weren't necessarily a very strategic fit for like a strategic partner or referral partner, and that they would, like you said, just be waiting for their opportunity to say what they needed to say about their business and having a lot of surface level conversations because I think a lot of business culture requires you to leave the personal at home. [00:04:41] And I don't want to do that. I think we bring ourselves to our work and to our business, our core values, the way we operate. And I would rather, like we were talking about introverts before we hit record. Right. And I don't really consider myself an introvert, but when it comes to those kinds of things, I really act like one, because I would much rather have an [00:05:00] intimate conversation about things that matter than talk about, you know, What you do, what you do for people, because that's gonna, if you're an entrepreneur, you're going to find that out. [00:05:08] Anyway, we can't help but talk about that. Right. [00:05:10] Sarah: Yeah, yeah, no, it's so true. It's these deeper, meaningful connections and conversations and actually. Also pre COVID, um, there was this, uh, movement on, on LinkedIn, uh, called the LinkedIn local events. Yeah. And so me who always hated networking all of the sudden, I was like, well, these events kind of had a different tone because they, they came with topics and they were really open to this idea of. [00:05:40] Bring yourself to the conversation, bring the human side to the conversation. And so I actually put my hand up together with, um, another, uh, local friend here. And we started creating these LinkedIn local networking events. And, and we created themes, you know, where people would pick [00:06:00] cards and have really deep conversations and people loved it, people were like, Oh, this. [00:06:05] So different. Right. And then every now and then the person would walk in and you could tell, you know, they were like business suit and they probably had their stack of business cards and they're like, what is this? Why [00:06:17] Cara: are people doing here? It's funny. Cause I had, I used to host a speed networking event in Ravel and, um. [00:06:24] I actually, I learned this from a coaching program that I was in and they would do a lot of like more personal questions. And so I love that we only did it once a month and I was like, we need to do this more often. And so the challenge was calling it speed networking because what we actually do when you get there is break up into small little breakout rooms. [00:06:40] And I would. I would offer questions or topic starters, like what's the weirdest thing in your fridge right now? Like things that don't have anything to do with business, but you end up deciding kind of who you really mesh with and who you want to take that relationship further with and really get to know about them and their business and how you can support one another. [00:06:57] Cause you don't really want to support people you don't [00:07:00] care about. Right. So that's kind of the first step, I think, is deciding who you want to care about. Right. [00:07:05] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Before you also addressed core values. So, so huge. What do you think are the, you know, the core, or I guess there's two questions. What are the core values that we should bring to networking and why do they [00:07:21] Cara: matter so much? [00:07:23] I think we should bring our own core values to networking because the truth is we are all I like to think of them as core drivers because I think corporate culture has kind of ruined the term core values for us. We think of the little poster on the wall that doesn't really mean anything. But if you really get into your core drivers, what it means is it's what motivates you. [00:07:40] It's what drives your behavior. So my core values are freedom, authenticity and connection. And I notice when I'm in a funk or when I'm out of sorts, it's because something is going against my core values. So if you're going to network, I think you should network with people ideally who share your core values. [00:07:58] And then you'll [00:08:00] naturally network in a very comfortable way. Like when I started Ravel, I very intentionally invited, I seeded the community with women who I knew shared at least one of my core values, knowing that birds of a feather flock together. And so it worked really well because now we're up around a hundred women and anyone who's referred someone has always been an amazing fit. [00:08:18] I have to do very little background on the applicants now because if I know Maggie int introduced someone else to the group, I know Maggie and I know she's not going to introduce somebody to the group who's not a good fit because her core values align really well with mine. Yeah. So I think that makes it just so much easier to predict how someone's going to behave and what you can expect from them. [00:08:40] Sarah: Yeah, and it really defines the community, [00:08:42] Cara: right? Yeah, it makes it easier to hold that community in a shape, like my goal when I started Ravel was to create a community, just create a space and hold it in a shape, such that people would feel comfortable and vulnerable enough to connect with one another and really get to know each other. [00:08:58] And by inviting the. [00:09:00] Types of people who would be strategically aligned to be most likely to refer one another, like complimentary service providers. They're all B2B service entrepreneurs and they're women. So they have a lot in common and, you know, financial professionals who serve agencies can network with coaches who serve agencies. [00:09:17] And because they share core values, they're going to probably get along pretty well. And it makes it easy to build that kind of rapport that they need to. Want to connect with one another and see what's up in their business and say, Hey, you should talk to so and so. So it's like kind of building relationships with like the happy by product that you get referrals in business works really well. [00:09:36] Yeah. [00:09:37] Sarah: That makes a lot of sense. Usually we hear this this idea of quality over quantity. Um, you just mentioned your communities about 100 people. Um, so, so what do you think about quality over quantity in terms of the networking? Is it a, is it a numbers game or is [00:10:00] it a quality game or is it something [00:10:01] Cara: in between? [00:10:02] I think it's quality over quantity, 100%. And I think it's evolving, honestly, constantly, right? Like, so if you're, cause your business evolves, maybe you shift who you serve or how you serve that person. Um, and so maybe you have a handful of really great referral partners and. you shift your business a little bit. [00:10:21] You might have to, some of those referral partners, it might not be as strategically aligned anymore. And maybe they stay, you stay friends, but you might start looking around for different strategic partners who might be more well aligned, but it's not like you have to shift your whole network. You just start networking with a few different people and start figuring out who, who fits with you. [00:10:38] Um, and I think like a hundred is a lot of women. Like, I don't, I don't intimately know every member of the community anymore. When it was like 20 women, it was like, It was really easy. And, but what we've done is we've separated into smaller groups too. So we have a Slack channel where we have different topics. [00:10:55] We have rabble travel, and we have ADHD all day and moms. And [00:11:00] so we have these different things that we care about. And the women who gravitate to those channels tend to get to know each other well enough that. Even if they're not strategically aligned to refer one another as well as some others would be, they kind of cross pollinate between the community, the micro communities within the chant, within the community. [00:11:17] And then they say, Oh, you know who you should get to know. So there's a lot of paying it forward, introducing people to other people. That is such a, an underrated gift that you can give someone is to say, I think I know somebody who you need to know. Who would, you'd benefit from knowing each other. I mean, making a connection between two people who you think would get along is such a gift. [00:11:38] Yeah. [00:11:39] Sarah: Yeah. So true. Um, you mentioned a few times this word strategic, and I guess it's for you, it's like, well, there's a strategy to networking because again, as an introvert, This idea of networking can sometimes feel so overwhelming because we think, well, does that mean I have to network with [00:12:00] just anybody, you know, so it's like, Oh my God, I don't have the time to network with just anybody. [00:12:07] So, so what, what is a good strategy, um, that feels, you know, empathic and yet very strategic. Um, and I guess time conscious as well. [00:12:20] Cara: Yeah. Yeah. I think. Um, that's probably how most people think of it is just like, it's very overwhelming. You have to make a lot of people think there's a list you have to make and you have to contact X number of people a day. [00:12:31] And that feels very impersonal and kind of, um, like required, which doesn't feel good for a lot of people. Um, I've approached it differently. Like I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. Um, just for networking, though, I don't spend a lot of time scrolling on LinkedIn, but if I find somebody offline, say I'm listening to a podcast or reading a book or find somebody's website online while I'm Googling or going down a rabbit hole of some kind, and I feel like they are strategically aligned with my business, meaning either they're, uh, [00:13:00] Complimentary service provider. [00:13:00] So we serve the same client, but we do different things, or we are a shoulder niche peer, meaning that we do different things or do we do the same sort of thing, but for different clients. So maybe I serve, um, the financial industry and they serve, um, like agencies or something like that. And so we can refer one another because we don't really serve the same ideal client, and this requires knowing what you want and what you're good at. [00:13:24] I don't think we are all suited to do, you know, the same thing. We're, we're all so different. I think it also, I think it's a successful networking in this way requires that you don't believe in competition. We're all so different. There's so much, so many factors that we can own as, you know, authentic to who we are that maybe somebody else doesn't want to own. [00:13:45] And if we know ourselves really well, we can understand what we do best and who we are best suited to serve. And then there's just no way that somebody else is going to bring exactly the same thing to the table that we are. So. We have to kind of get rid of that idea first. And then we're free to [00:14:00] network with people who look like they do something similar to what we do, but probably don't do exactly what we do or for the same person. [00:14:07] Um, and then you can also look for people who are, um, centers of influence coaches for, if you serve entrepreneurs, maybe you're wanting to network with coaches who serve entrepreneurs, and maybe you're a done for you service provider or something like that. So they're in a position to refer you there. [00:14:24] The people you're looking for to network with are the ones who are most likely to be in a position to refer you. So not somebody who's working in a totally different industry with clients that aren't even related to you. Um, but I don't, I don't think you have to go like search for them. I think you can listen to podcasts that are interesting to you and just start taking note of. [00:14:47] Someone who's interesting to you, who you think you might like and say, is that person in a position to refer me perhaps, and then you can just reach out to that person individually. I usually on LinkedIn because it's the easiest place to get [00:15:00] really connected with somebody. Yeah, [00:15:03] Sarah: so the idea is really to find referral partners. [00:15:07] and connect with them. [00:15:09] Cara: Yeah. And to be open about it and say, Hey, I think we have a lot in common. I think we might benefit from knowing each other. Um, I like you. I like what you're doing. Let's connect and just say hi. Mm-hmm. . [00:15:20] Sarah: Yeah. Do you then stop at the, you know, first conversation or how do you. Because it, you know, we always say in networking, you have to stay top of mind. [00:15:31] So how do you stay top of mind with this [00:15:33] Cara: person then? I don't think everyone is going to stay top of mind all the time, right? Like, you're gonna, you're gonna meet a few people who you really click with. And a few people who you don't really click with. One of the reasons that I started Ravel was because it is hard to stay top of mind when we're all busy and we're all running around doing all our stuff all day long. [00:15:52] And I don't, I'm not the kind of person, let's do, we have to do what works for us, right? If you're an organized person and you like lists and you use a [00:16:00] CRM, maybe you can stay top of mind with people in your own strategic way. I can't do that. So I put everybody in a container that I like so that I can stay connected with them in a container. [00:16:12] We, we naturally stay connected because we're having calls or somebody is asking a question and we're learning more about their business that way. And we're commenting and sharing our expertise. And so I think it's about proximity. And then if you're connected with them on LinkedIn and you're following them, you might see them. [00:16:26] It's like, The top of mind thing I think is more about the mere exposure effect than, than the top, than staying top of mind. It's just staying in front of someone who you want to, to stay connected with. And you can do that in a lot of different ways just by commenting on their stuff on LinkedIn. They see you, you learn a little bit more maybe about what they do and it don't think it has to take a long time. [00:16:46] It can take five, 10 minutes to, to go on. And in the case of LinkedIn, I would say like a lot of people suggest. That you'd be connected to a ton of people and follow a ton of people. But I find that really overwhelming. So [00:17:00] I only follow and want to be connected with the people that I really want to stay connected with because then my feed isn't really overwhelming and I can just, I can see the people that I want to stay in touch with and I can comment and like, and stay. [00:17:12] In front of them. And then they remember me. [00:17:15] Sarah: Yeah. So, so, so does that mean that you actually, you know, hide some of the updates of people who you don't want to see anymore, just so not, not to. [00:17:26] Cara: I just unfollow them or disconnect. I am a little bit ruthless that way because it's, we only have so much time and I don't really want to be connected with people that don't align with me really, really well. [00:17:36] So, you know, when I. I've been on LinkedIn for a long, long time, but my, my career has evolved. You know, if the past 15 years I'm doing very different things than I was in the very beginning. And so I, when I decided to reinvest in LinkedIn as a way to connect with people, I went in and I, I had, you know, thousands of connections and I got rid of all but 400 and some odd. [00:17:57] Because it was like, if I don't want to have coffee with this [00:18:00] person, I don't need to be on LinkedIn with them. And perhaps that's different if you're not an entrepreneur and you're trying to get a job. I don't know about that, but for my situation where I want to spend time connecting and networking with people who care about the same things I care about. [00:18:18] That means there's a lot of people I don't need to connect with. And I don't want to waste my time looking at their stuff. if I don't care about it. Right. And they don't know, so it's not mean or anything. [00:18:33] Sarah: Um, yeah, it's really interesting to, to see how, you know, usually we always hear, Oh, use LinkedIn for lead generation, right? [00:18:43] Yeah, that's not how you're looking at it. You're like, well, I, Only want the people I care about. And so they, yes, they might be potential clients or they're, you know, some other level of connection or [00:18:59] [00:19:00] network. [00:19:00] Cara: That's how you. I think that's a giant, you're speaking to something that's really important that I think a lot of people miss. [00:19:05] It's a giant mistake to go into like a community or a networking container and think you're going to sell to the people in that container. You're the benefit of being in a container with a hundred women. Is the connection to the 150 other people they know that they might be able to connect you with. [00:19:24] And yes, we buy from each other. I've purchased products and services from tons of the women inside Ravel and we buy stuff. We hire each other all the time, but it's not because we're sharing our offers and trying to convince each other to buy from us. It's because we happen to know each other really well, and we have a problem and we know that person can solve it. [00:19:42] But most of the time we're introducing someone. To another person, like I'll run. I talked to a friend of mine, or I go to an event or something, and I hear somebody has a problem. And I will say, I know somebody you should talk to. Let me connect you with so and so because I know what she does. And I like her and I know she'll do a good job. [00:19:59] Right. [00:20:00] So we're, we're building the relationships. We're not selling to people and LinkedIn is You know, a breeding ground for people doing lead gen on LinkedIn. We should be doing strategic networking. [00:20:11] Sarah: Yeah, I think that that's really the, the, the difference is not thinking of everybody who is somehow looking like a client just because they, you know, have a human body that, that you think of them as your ideal client. [00:20:29] And especially if you then think of a community where Uh, you know, the minute you bring that kind of energy into a community, the community is basically, yeah, it's destined to [00:20:41] Cara: fail. I've seen it happen in Ravel a couple of times where a couple, where a couple of people have, you know, crossed that line between, Hey guys, here's what I'm doing. [00:20:49] Check it out. Cause we want to share, we want to share what we're doing and we have a space for that, you know, but, um, a couple of people have, you know, gotten a little bit salesy with it. And it's not that they [00:21:00] get slapped down or anything. It's just that nobody responds. Right. It's just not something people are looking for in a community where we're trying to build relationships. [00:21:10] But what we do is we have calls and we connect with one another and we learn what's going on. And then we will often share on another person's behalf. One of our, one of our members, Cara, Cara Hoosier, she's getting ready to publish a book and it's really exciting because she's been through an incredible journey to get where she is. [00:21:25] It's called burnt out to lit up. And it's about. preventing yourself from burning out and what to do when you get there. And she's getting ready to launch this. She's looking for people to help her, you know, do reviews and read her book. And I was super excited for her. So instead of her getting on there and she's saying, Hey guys, look at what I did. [00:21:43] I said, can I share this with the community? Because it's really awesome. And she was like, sure. And so I said, you guys look at this, our member, our fellow friend here. is publishing a book. This is so exciting. Who wants to help her? I know that anybody else in here who is publishing a book would want the community to help them too. [00:21:59] [00:22:00] And so it's a very different message when you lift up another woman, as opposed to saying, look at me. It look at her sounds a lot different than look at me. Sure. So we help each other that way. Yeah. [00:22:12] Sarah: At the same time you as the host. What would you do? And this is not to do with networking, but just as a, you know, fellow community host, what would you do with a member, you know, several times trespasses that kind of unspoken rule that we're not selling in this community? [00:22:34] What would you do? [00:22:36] Cara: We had one instance in two years. In the last two years, we've had one instance where someone really kind of did cross the line. And I wasn't online that morning, but I got a bunch of messages from other community members who were like, Hey, we don't like this. Like we got to do something about this. [00:22:52] Um, and they were upset for me because she was trying to poach a bunch of members into a different community, which I think is fine actually, because [00:23:00] it's, I mean, I don't think poaching is fine, but I think women should have more than one community. They serve different purposes. I. intentionally keep Ravel at a very reasonable price because I want to belong to many communities, and I know that other women do too. [00:23:13] Um, but the way she went about it was really kind of gross. And so I had to respond to that because the community was saying, this feels gross and we don't want to be around this. And so I did ask, I said, we're going to go ahead and Remove you because this is not how we operate in here. I wish you know, but bless and release This might just not be the right place for you Which is important to remember because there are people have different core values people believe different things They operate different ways and just because she doesn't operate the way that we want to operate doesn't mean there's not a place Where that's totally fine for people to do, bless and release. [00:23:46] Um, so it's really more of like the community managing itself. I don't moderate and I don't tell them what they can and can't do. [00:23:54] Sarah: So, yeah, but in a way it's beautiful to have them, you know, kind of [00:24:00] show up and say, Hey, this is not how, this is not how we run here. [00:24:05] Cara: And yeah. And yeah. And that's my whole goal with the community is I don't, I'm not a coach. [00:24:10] I don't. Sell them anything other than the place inside the community, like the space. And so that's what, how I view it is. And I mean, we're kind of getting away from networking into community at this point, but I view it as myself just holding space in a particular shape. And that's my job is to make sure this play, this space is safe and a good place for people to be vulnerable and build relationships. [00:24:31] And if they can't do that, I'm not doing my job. So it has to be a safe space online. Yeah, yeah, [00:24:39] Sarah: that's beautiful. Yeah, we kind of meshed community with networking, but that's what [00:24:45] Cara: you're, that's what it is, right? Yeah, it, if when you're networking, you're building community. It just may not have a specific container it lives in. [00:24:54] Sarah: Yeah. And I also think. If we're changing that [00:25:00] term of networking into net weaving, then that's what we're really doing in a community is weaving a web together because the whole definition of a community is people being connected with each other. Not just to you as the host, right? [00:25:17] Cara: Totally. Yeah. And, and I, and this is why I use Slack, but I pay for the analytics. [00:25:23] I could use it for free, but I want to see what's happening behind the scenes, which is valuable because more than 50 percent of the conversations that are happening inside the community are in the DMs. And I know I'm not having that many conversations. There are thousands of conversations happening during the month. [00:25:36] And I know I'm not having that many. So there are a lot of private conversations happening and partnerships. Um, I introduced a couple of gals recently who are now partnering in business and, and they're super excited and doing some really amazing things. And I know that has nothing to do with me, but we're weaving. [00:25:54] These connections, not just for us, but for other people as well. And I think not, you don't even have [00:26:00] to, like, we can think of containers as smaller things, even text threads between two people or three people. Like if I have several people I want to connect with, because we all live locally, we're on a text thread together and the three of us send funny memes to one another. [00:26:12] And it doesn't have to do with business all the time. Yeah, [00:26:16] Sarah: I agree with that. It can also be more fun, right? It [00:26:18] Cara: should be more fun. Don't you think we should have more fun? I need more fun. [00:26:25] Sarah: Um, Yeah, maybe, maybe that's a good way to close with the, with the fun networking. Um, but maybe just also for people who right now, you know, there's so many communities out there yet, yet they're like, well, I don't either, I don't have the funds or I just can't decide which one to join. [00:26:45] So how can you start networking with that community as, or with that community notion without being in a community? What kind of advice would [00:26:55] Cara: you give? Um, I would say, I would say just [00:27:00] start connecting with people you enjoy. I listen to a lot of podcasts and I reach out to people who I think are excellent, either hosts or, um, interviewees, guests. [00:27:10] And I just tell them, I really, I like just start, start connecting directly with people that you admire, or you think have something interesting to say that you align with. Um, because like, there's that thing homophily, we're attracted to things that are similar to what we love or, or who we are. And so we're, they're going to be attracted to you. [00:27:28] If you share something either, I mean, location's really obvious, but beyond that, like core values or a mission or a purpose or something like that, like, I think you and I initially got connected on LinkedIn long, long ago, because I heard your podcast. And I was like, I, you're doing awesome things. We need to be connected. [00:27:45] And like, it didn't go anywhere for a long time. We had a little back and forth on, on LinkedIn, but eventually here we are trading podcast interviews. And so I think being in it for the long game and having conversations in the DMs, not expecting every [00:28:00] conversation to go somewhere, but being open to it going somewhere. [00:28:04] Yeah. [00:28:04] Sarah: And probably also not coming with this expectation that. Everyone you reach out to is gonna open your, their calendar [00:28:13] Cara: to you, you know, like, yeah, like when we connected initially, I was not expecting a one to one call. I, we live across the country, across the world from one another and we're both busy and eventually maybe we connect, but I genuinely just wanted to tell you that I really like what you're doing. [00:28:30] And I think that's people want to hear that it's people are open to hearing that you agree with them and that you like what they're doing. And if that's all it is, you've put some good energy out in the world and you can leave it at that. Right, [00:28:41] Sarah: exactly. It doesn't doesn't have to become a lead generation. [00:28:45] Cara: Yeah, it doesn't have to even become like a really intense networking like relationship there. We're going to have this whole gamut of closeness in our network, right? And we don't have the capacity to be really close. With a bunch of bunch of people like [00:29:00] 510 people, we're going to be really close with. [00:29:02] Um, and if we're all running in roughly the same circles, there's going to be opportunities for collaboration and referrals and those things. So it's a little bit of a leap of faith, but you got to just trust that if you're doing good work and you're helping people and people know you do it, that they're going to tell somebody exactly [00:29:20] Sarah: plant those seeds. [00:29:21] Yes, that's wonderful. Well, do you tell us a bit more about rattle and your community [00:29:28] Cara: and where people can find it? Yeah. The website is ravelcollective. com and it's for women B2B service entrepreneurs. So financial professionals, lots of marketers, content writers, stuff like that. Consultants. We've got some coaches, some, um, coaches for women entrepreneurs, and it's just a networking community, a really casual networking community where we Get to know each other. [00:29:50] A bunch of us are going to Mexico in a month together. I haven't met three of them, but I, and it's not an official event. I just said, Hey, I'm going to go to Mexico for a week and [00:30:00] do some like 2024 business planning. If anybody wants to join me, I've rented this house. And so it's not, you know, we probably won't talk business all the time, but. [00:30:09] It'll be fun. So we're kind of trying to put some of the fun and like person to person relationship back into business so that we can rely on, I don't know, our, our relationships to sustain us instead of, you know, just relying on ourselves. So yeah, it's 39 a month and it's month to month and it's just a space that I'm holding for women who want to build more professional relationships. [00:30:34] Sarah: We'll make sure to link to it. I always have one last question, uh, Cara, and that's, what are you grateful for today or this week, this month? [00:30:45] Cara: Oh my goodness. I think I'm most grateful for my family this week. It's there's a lot of, there's a lot of lonely people out there and I have a wonderful husband and a, an amazing son and I'm really [00:31:00] grateful for them. [00:31:02] Wonderful. [00:31:03] Thank you for having me.

Today's conversation fits under the P of Personal Power If you're a regular here, you know that I'm organizing the conversations around the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. (If you're new here and don't know what I'm talking about you can download your 1page marketing plan with the Humane Marketing version of the 7 Ps of Marketing at humane.marketing/1page. It comes with 7 email prompts to really help you reflect on these different Ps). It's time for another short solo episode. This time I'd like to share a bit more about the 2nd P of Personal Power. I'll address: Why it's key to know your Personal Power in Humane Marketing How defining your core values dictates how you show up in the world What other personality assessments you can use to learn more about who you are How all this information helps you understand your Unique Holistic Marketing Super Power And how to bring all of that into your story Ep 173 text [00:00:00] Sarah: Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non pushy. [00:00:23] I'm Sarah Zanacroce, your hippie turned business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama bear of the humane marketing circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. [00:00:58] If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a Zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way. [00:01:16] We share with transparency and vulnerability what works for us. And what doesn't work, so that you can figure out what works for you, instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane. marketing forward slash circle. And if you prefer one on one support from me, my humane business coaching could be just what you need. [00:01:40] Whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book, I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you, together with my almost 50. Years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my Mama Bear qualities as my one-on-one client, and find out more at Humane Marketing slash Coaching. [00:02:09] And finally, if you are a Marketing Impact pioneer and would like to bring Humane Marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website at Humane. [00:02:34] Hello friends, welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast. Today's conversation, well, it's a solo episode fits under the P of personal power. If you're a regular here, you know that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven P's. of the Humane Marketing Mandala. If this is your first time here, a very warm welcome. [00:02:57] You probably don't know what I'm talking about, but [00:03:00] you can download your one page marketing plan with the Humane Marketing version of the seven Ps of marketing at humane. marketing forward slash one page. That's the number one and the word page. And humane is with an E at the end. I noticed that non English speakers don't always know that human and humane are spelled differently. [00:03:24] So humane is with an E at the end. And this comes with a seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different P's for your business. So it's time for another. short solo episode and this time I'd like to share a bit more about the second P, the one that stands for personal power. I'll be talking about why it's key to know your personal power in humane marketing, how defining your core values really dictates how you show up in the world, [00:04:00] what other personality assessments you can do. [00:04:02] News to learn more about who you are, how all this information helps you understand your unique holistic marketing superpower. How to bring all of that into your story and just create a business that is aligned with who you are and therefore, you know, also marketed from within. Who am I? That's the question here, right? [00:04:28] And so this is the other P together with passion or purpose, the first P that was completely missing in the traditional marketing model. Before we never looked at ourselves first. It was all about the customer because the customer was king. And so we had to kind of chase after this customer. So I really think it has to do with the human evolution. [00:04:54] We want to self actualize. So it makes sense to learn more about [00:05:00] ourselves first in order to then find out who's a good match for us. It's very aligned also with the inner development goals. Something that I'm recently very much fascinated by and. kind of following the movement, participating in the movement. [00:05:18] So if you haven't heard about the inner development goals, definitely look that up. It's the pendant of the sustainable development goals. But again, as the word says, it's starting within, starting with ourselves. And so it's the same here. We're starting marketing within, within, within ourselves. So it's really. [00:05:39] principle of the resonance, right? So that we find out who we are first in order to resonate with ideal clients who are aligned with us. And marketing with integrity really means marketing in our wholeness. So that's why we need to start with [00:06:00] ourselves. So the first thing we look at, and I'm sure you heard about this before, is our values. [00:06:07] You know, what are our core. Usually it's three or five. So if you haven't done this exercise yet or haven't done it recently, I really highly recommend that you look at your values again, because they actually also change. So there's a free core values assessment. If you Google personal values assessment, you'll, you'll find probably several, but Yeah, they're, they're all pretty much the same. [00:06:36] So you just pick first 10 values and then you narrow it down to five or three. And mine currently are freedom, curiosity, joy. health and honesty. So these are kind of my top five values. In her books, Brene Brown talks about her two [00:07:00] guiding values being courage and faith and how she always thinks about these main values whenever she makes a decision. [00:07:07] For example, freedom is my number one value whenever I don't feel free. I feel trapped and knowing that about myself has really helped me with business decisions. For example, I'm not an ideal fit for working with a business partner under the same company. I just wouldn't feel free to do whatever I want. [00:07:30] It also means that I do my best work with entrepreneurs who also often have this urge for freedom. A few years ago, I trained all the consultants of the local unemployment offices on how to help their clients with LinkedIn. And I really did not like it. They were not my people. They had been working at their jobs for. [00:07:55] And they didn't share this value of freedom and [00:08:00] curiosity and and the growth mindset. So yeah, looking at our values and knowing what they are and bringing them into our work and into our marketing and into our Business decisions is really really key. Another thing I talk about in the Marketing Like We're Human program under the personal P, personal power P, is the Myers Briggs personality assessment. [00:08:28] I'm sure all of us have taken that already at one point in our life. My type is INFJ, so knowing this about myself helps me understand more about my energy. That I'm more introverted and more intuitive. I'm not driven by numbers and stats. I love people but I need to refill my battery by being alone. [00:08:55] So, It's a, it's a good assessment to really know how, how [00:09:00] you're wired and it helps you again with your marketing and your business decisions because it, it teaches you how you do your best work, right? Another one we look at is the Enneagram. I don't know much about that, I think I'm a four, but it's also an interesting one to look at, so if, if that calls you maybe because of the drawing or it just speaks to you more, then definitely have a look at that. [00:09:29] Another one is the, the Strengths Assessment. So, it's called the V I A Institute of Character Strengths, and it's organized in 24 character strengths in different degrees, giving each person a unique character profile. And so, Then it also gives you kind of your six most important character strengths, and which is just also, you know, interesting to look [00:10:00] at. [00:10:00] So mine were Humility, Love of Learning, which is again similar to my Value of Curiosity, Judgment, which is the same J of INFJ. So Judgment, my Husband Tony always makes fun of me about that because I am quite a judgy also with people and say I don't like these pants Things like that, but that's not what it stands for in the Myers Briggs assessment It the J is really about planning everything ahead of time and not being so good with spontaneity And so that's very much me very You know future planning so judgment is my third. [00:10:46] Then fourth is creativity, which is still true. Then fifth is gratitude, which is also true. And then sixth is kindness. So again, it's a lot of confirmation, but knowing this about. [00:11:00] myself lets me tap into it more into, you know, bring that into my marketing. Like I call myself the mama bear of the humane marketing circle. [00:11:10] Well, it is that, you know, kindness, for example comes out of this term. So it's just informs us about different aspects of ourself that we can bring into our communication and our business. Another one of these. It's not really an assessment. It's much bigger than an assessment. I don't know what you would call it. [00:11:35] It, it is human design that is based on astrology and a very similar type of thing is, is called gene keys. So you probably either know human design or you know gene keys, but they're very similar, I would say, because they're based on astrology. And I'm a five... One generator, so there's different profiles, [00:12:00] and I am really usually full of energy. [00:12:04] That's what the generator means. I, I, you know, intrinsically create energy. And so again, just kind of learning more about this human design and it goes into a lot of depth. If you're curious about human design, I highly recommend you listen to episode 159 with Julian Cross and Hill, who is a human design specialist. [00:12:29] And you can find that episode at humane. marketing. com forward slash H. M 1, 5 9. So very, very fascinating work that I dove into a few years ago, and it's still with me. I have my report in my desk, and every now and then I take it back out. I'm like, oh, yes, that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. For example, it gave me the information that I'm actually meant to work with.[00:13:00] [00:13:00] One too many, so writing books, for example, or doing the group coaching, I thought that I was just meant to work one on one because I was an introvert and yet when the human report came out and I worked with someone on, on that. We realized, well, actually, no, it's not so much about one on one or not only about one on one. [00:13:26] So that was interesting for me. So yeah, have a listen to episode 159 with Julian Cross and Hill, who talks about human design. Yet another one is the fascination advantage. So that's more about. looking at how the world sees us rather than how we see the world. And this one really is more marketing oriented. [00:13:49] It's It's really interesting to find out also that often people see us differently from how we see ourselves. So the exact [00:14:00] words that people would use to describe us and the types of tasks that perfectly fit our personal brand and, and then it gives you these 42 personality archetypes, which seems like a lot. [00:14:16] But There's been a lot of research behind that and really it, it is, yeah, it is fascinating. And when I took it a few years ago, I came out as the maverick leader and my kind of Power was innovation and power. And now that I took it again, power stayed the same and innovation changed to mystique, which mystique is the language of listening, which also fits me well. [00:14:46] So it's just interesting to see and find out how the world sees you. And then also kind of receive this language that people would use. Well, I would never. [00:15:00] Describe myself as a maverick leader. I wouldn't put those words out there, but it's interesting to hear and see that maybe that's how people perceive me. [00:15:13] So yeah, very interesting information in that report. It used to be free. Now, unfortunately it's no longer free and it's. I think it's around 70 bucks a client you recently told me so, but I would say it's, it's, if you're interested in that kind of thing, it's definitely worth doing that once. So all these results really help us realize who we are and what we're good at and what our unique holistic marketing superpower is. [00:15:43] There's probably others. Oh, there's one I'm thinking of from Jonathan Fields called What's your SPARCA type? And that one is also a bit more like skills oriented like work oriented. So you'll find that on Jonathan Field's [00:16:00] website, or if you just Google SPARCA type and, and another interesting of these self assessments. [00:16:07] And again, we don't have to. You know, take these labels for granted. Things can change and we don't have to put ourselves into this box. But to me, it really informs us a bit about how we're wired and then. You know, we can tap into that and say, yeah let me explore this and find out how I can use this to my best advantage. [00:16:33] So, for example, if I'd work with a coach that told me that I have to speak on stage every week, that would really not work for me. I'd be totally outside of my comfort zone all the time and probably end up with a burnout in a few months. All about expanding our comfort zone every now and then, like I'm doing in a couple of weeks by going to a big summit about the inner [00:17:00] development goals in, in Sweden. [00:17:01] So again, these inner development goals that I mentioned earlier, it's just really right now at a topic that I'm fascinated. of and really interested in and so these summits are, they're, yeah, I'm an introvert as you know and so going to a big summit like that is, yeah, outside of my comfort zone, but it's. [00:17:25] Okay for me to expand that comfort zone every now and then, but for most of the time, I agree with my friend, Adam, who has this concept that he calls inside the comfort zone. And I think that's why we're doing these personality assessments and figuring out our unique, holistic superpower is that for most of the time we can operate within. [00:17:49] our comfort zone. And I really think we are our best selves and do our best work when we truly know who we are and bring all of us [00:18:00] to our work. No masks. We're not faking it until we are making it. Right? Most of the time, I would say probably 98 percent we do our best work if we are truly just who we are. [00:18:13] 2 percent of the time, yeah, we'll have to put on a little mask. And, and, you know, for me, it's usually kind of faking the small talk or, or pretending I'm fine when I'm actually having a headache, which happens a lot. But other than that. I just, you know, operate best if I'm truly inside the comfort zone and, and being my true self. [00:18:38] Another thing knowing my personal power helped me understand is that I need a lot of spaciousness in my days. Even though I call myself a conscious business coach, I don't enjoy coaching loads of clients at the same time. My brain just can't handle it. Another thing I didn't I mentioned so [00:19:00] much here is that I'm a highly sensitive person, that's, you know, it's not a, in a, in a personality assessment, but it's, it's a trait. [00:19:08] It's a personality trait. And so, Understanding this about myself that I'm highly sensitive and that my brain quite quickly probably more quickly than other people goes into overload, it just made me understand, well, I can't be this coach like other people are coaching all day long and having like six, seven coaching clients per day, it's, it's not good for me. [00:19:36] So that's why I shifted my business model to now work only with three. one on one clients at a time and they of course get then my full attention and I can over deliver because I'm not spread too thin. Besides the one on one clients, I then also offer the community and the group program and soon a second one that I'm [00:20:00] calling the business book alchemist. [00:20:02] If you're on my email list, you already know about this one. So another story that comes to about how my values helped me. Make a business decision is the story about the trademark issue with gentle marketing. If you've been in my world for a while, you already know this story that after I published the first book then called the gentle marketing revolution, I received a seasoned assist letter and was told I can no longer use that term. [00:20:33] And so. That was really, really hard, as you can imagine. But sticking to my values where a lot of people kind of even, you know, nice, like friends almost, like at least business friends told me, well, you know, maybe you can fight this. I'm sure there's, there's a gray zone because she's in the U. S. You're in Switzerland, you know, just lawyer up, get a lawyer and, and, and I'm sure you [00:21:00] can fight this. [00:21:01] And yet. That was going so much against my values. I'm like, I don't believe in competition. I believe in collaboration. I don't believe in owning stuff, especially gentle stuff, you know, gentle words. How could I, Sarah, own a word and say, this is now mine. Nobody. It's allowed to use it anymore, especially if I'm calling it a revolution, right? [00:21:29] And so it was just completely against my values to go and say, Hey, this is going to be mine. I'm going to fight for it. And so it really helped me. with my intention, intuition and, and saying, well, I need to let this go. I need to, you know, say, okay, fine. I understand legally, this is yours and I move on and find a new term. [00:21:56] And I think, yeah, the, the values and kind of [00:22:00] in my. moral principles really helped me in this in this decision, which of course wasn't easy, but in the end, I'm, I'm so glad this happened. So yeah, in conclusion, finding our personal power is all about marketing from within. Aligned with our values and really feeling a hundred percent grounded in how we're communicating and it helps you find then also the tactics that are aligned with you and tune out at the same time, all the other noise and all the other shoulds, for example, I'm not on Instagram, I'm no longer on Twitter, I've quit Facebook, I only release one podcast every two weeks now where everybody's saying, well, you should At least, you know, two episodes per week, but it just didn't work for me. [00:22:53] So I do things aligned with my energy and my personal power, the way that [00:23:00] feels good and not what the latest guru marketer tells me to do. And I really, really think. It's so helpful to know what your personal power is, right? What your personal holistic and humane marketing superpower is. And I truly enjoy helping others find their holistic and humane marketing superpower by By guiding them through this journey of finding out, well, how are you wired? [00:23:32] What's your, what are your values? What's, what's your worldview? And, and if you've read my Marketing Like We're Human book, I have a special reader offer that you can find on my website. If you go to humane. dot marketing under the tab books, it's kind of hidden away, it's under the tab books, not offerings. [00:23:51] And so you, you click at the bottom, it says special reader offer. And it's a one off power hour with me [00:24:00] that comes with a 16 page workbook that I'd like you to prepare and reflect on before our time together. So it's really, it's deep work and I'll have you. You know, look at some of these assessments and then we can figure out together, well, what is your humane and holistic marketing superpowers so that you too can tune out all the rest. [00:24:23] And maybe for you, it is Instagram, right? It's not going to be me saying, Oh, but for me, Instagram doesn't work. And so it shouldn't work for you either. It really depends on what you enjoy and how you're wired. And what your energy looks like. So if you're listening to this and think, oh, that would be really helpful, I'd love to help you and find more clarity and ease by figuring out your holistic and humane marketing superpower. [00:24:53] So again, it's at humane. marketing. And then you just look for the tab [00:25:00] books and underneath there, you'll. Find the special reader offer. I really hope you got some value from my ramblings about superpower and humane holistic superpowers. Maybe take some of the assessments that I mentioned. I think it's really, really helpful. [00:25:19] Personal Power is also the second module of the Marketing Like We're Human, aka the Client Resonator Program. So you can find out more about that by going to humane. marketing forward slash program. And if you're looking for others who think like you, then why not join us in the Humane Marketing Circle? [00:25:39] You can find out more about that at humane. marketing. com. Forward slash circle, you find the show notes of this episode at humane dot marketing forward slash H M one seven three. And on this beautiful page, you'll also find a series of free offers, the humane business manifesto, [00:26:00] and the free gentle confidence mini course. [00:26:02] As well as my two books, Marketing Like We're Human and Selling Like We're Human. Thank you so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares for yourself, your clients, and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers. So go be the change you want to see in the world. [00:26:22] Speak soon![00:27:00]

Today's conversation fits under the P of Personal Power If you're a regular here, you know that I'm organizing the conversations around the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. (If you're new here and don't know what I'm talking about you can download your 1page marketing plan with the Humane Marketing version of the 7 Ps of Marketing at humane.marketing/1page. It comes with 7 email prompts to really help you reflect on these different Ps). It's time for another short solo episode. This time I'd like to share a bit more about the 2nd P of Personal Power. I'll address: Why it's key to know your Personal Power in Humane Marketing How defining your core values dictates how you show up in the world What other personality assessments you can use to learn more about who you are How all this information helps you understand your Unique Holistic Marketing Super Power And how to bring all of that into your story Ep 173 text [00:00:00] Sarah: Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non pushy. [00:00:23] I'm Sarah Zanacroce, your hippie turned business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama bear of the humane marketing circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. [00:00:58] If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a Zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way. [00:01:16] We share with transparency and vulnerability what works for us. And what doesn't work, so that you can figure out what works for you, instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane. marketing forward slash circle. And if you prefer one on one support from me, my humane business coaching could be just what you need. [00:01:40] Whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book, I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you, together with my almost 50. Years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my Mama Bear qualities as my one-on-one client, and find out more at Humane Marketing slash Coaching. [00:02:09] And finally, if you are a Marketing Impact pioneer and would like to bring Humane Marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website at Humane. [00:02:34] Hello friends, welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast. Today's conversation, well, it's a solo episode fits under the P of personal power. If you're a regular here, you know that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven P's. of the Humane Marketing Mandala. If this is your first time here, a very warm welcome. [00:02:57] You probably don't know what I'm talking about, but [00:03:00] you can download your one page marketing plan with the Humane Marketing version of the seven Ps of marketing at humane. marketing forward slash one page. That's the number one and the word page. And humane is with an E at the end. I noticed that non English speakers don't always know that human and humane are spelled differently. [00:03:24] So humane is with an E at the end. And this comes with a seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different P's for your business. So it's time for another. short solo episode and this time I'd like to share a bit more about the second P, the one that stands for personal power. I'll be talking about why it's key to know your personal power in humane marketing, how defining your core values really dictates how you show up in the world, [00:04:00] what other personality assessments you can do. [00:04:02] News to learn more about who you are, how all this information helps you understand your unique holistic marketing superpower. How to bring all of that into your story and just create a business that is aligned with who you are and therefore, you know, also marketed from within. Who am I? That's the question here, right? [00:04:28] And so this is the other P together with passion or purpose, the first P that was completely missing in the traditional marketing model. Before we never looked at ourselves first. It was all about the customer because the customer was king. And so we had to kind of chase after this customer. So I really think it has to do with the human evolution. [00:04:54] We want to self actualize. So it makes sense to learn more about [00:05:00] ourselves first in order to then find out who's a good match for us. It's very aligned also with the inner development goals. Something that I'm recently very much fascinated by and. kind of following the movement, participating in the movement. [00:05:18] So if you haven't heard about the inner development goals, definitely look that up. It's the pendant of the sustainable development goals. But again, as the word says, it's starting within, starting with ourselves. And so it's the same here. We're starting marketing within, within, within ourselves. So it's really. [00:05:39] principle of the resonance, right? So that we find out who we are first in order to resonate with ideal clients who are aligned with us. And marketing with integrity really means marketing in our wholeness. So that's why we need to start with [00:06:00] ourselves. So the first thing we look at, and I'm sure you heard about this before, is our values. [00:06:07] You know, what are our core. Usually it's three or five. So if you haven't done this exercise yet or haven't done it recently, I really highly recommend that you look at your values again, because they actually also change. So there's a free core values assessment. If you Google personal values assessment, you'll, you'll find probably several, but Yeah, they're, they're all pretty much the same. [00:06:36] So you just pick first 10 values and then you narrow it down to five or three. And mine currently are freedom, curiosity, joy. health and honesty. So these are kind of my top five values. In her books, Brene Brown talks about her two [00:07:00] guiding values being courage and faith and how she always thinks about these main values whenever she makes a decision. [00:07:07] For example, freedom is my number one value whenever I don't feel free. I feel trapped and knowing that about myself has really helped me with business decisions. For example, I'm not an ideal fit for working with a business partner under the same company. I just wouldn't feel free to do whatever I want. [00:07:30] It also means that I do my best work with entrepreneurs who also often have this urge for freedom. A few years ago, I trained all the consultants of the local unemployment offices on how to help their clients with LinkedIn. And I really did not like it. They were not my people. They had been working at their jobs for. [00:07:55] And they didn't share this value of freedom and [00:08:00] curiosity and and the growth mindset. So yeah, looking at our values and knowing what they are and bringing them into our work and into our marketing and into our Business decisions is really really key. Another thing I talk about in the Marketing Like We're Human program under the personal P, personal power P, is the Myers Briggs personality assessment. [00:08:28] I'm sure all of us have taken that already at one point in our life. My type is INFJ, so knowing this about myself helps me understand more about my energy. That I'm more introverted and more intuitive. I'm not driven by numbers and stats. I love people but I need to refill my battery by being alone. [00:08:55] So, It's a, it's a good assessment to really know how, how [00:09:00] you're wired and it helps you again with your marketing and your business decisions because it, it teaches you how you do your best work, right? Another one we look at is the Enneagram. I don't know much about that, I think I'm a four, but it's also an interesting one to look at, so if, if that calls you maybe because of the drawing or it just speaks to you more, then definitely have a look at that. [00:09:29] Another one is the, the Strengths Assessment. So, it's called the V I A Institute of Character Strengths, and it's organized in 24 character strengths in different degrees, giving each person a unique character profile. And so, Then it also gives you kind of your six most important character strengths, and which is just also, you know, interesting to look [00:10:00] at. [00:10:00] So mine were Humility, Love of Learning, which is again similar to my Value of Curiosity, Judgment, which is the same J of INFJ. So Judgment, my Husband Tony always makes fun of me about that because I am quite a judgy also with people and say I don't like these pants Things like that, but that's not what it stands for in the Myers Briggs assessment It the J is really about planning everything ahead of time and not being so good with spontaneity And so that's very much me very You know future planning so judgment is my third. [00:10:46] Then fourth is creativity, which is still true. Then fifth is gratitude, which is also true. And then sixth is kindness. So again, it's a lot of confirmation, but knowing this about. [00:11:00] myself lets me tap into it more into, you know, bring that into my marketing. Like I call myself the mama bear of the humane marketing circle. [00:11:10] Well, it is that, you know, kindness, for example comes out of this term. So it's just informs us about different aspects of ourself that we can bring into our communication and our business. Another one of these. It's not really an assessment. It's much bigger than an assessment. I don't know what you would call it. [00:11:35] It, it is human design that is based on astrology and a very similar type of thing is, is called gene keys. So you probably either know human design or you know gene keys, but they're very similar, I would say, because they're based on astrology. And I'm a five... One generator, so there's different profiles, [00:12:00] and I am really usually full of energy. [00:12:04] That's what the generator means. I, I, you know, intrinsically create energy. And so again, just kind of learning more about this human design and it goes into a lot of depth. If you're curious about human design, I highly recommend you listen to episode 159 with Julian Cross and Hill, who is a human design specialist. [00:12:29] And you can find that episode at humane. marketing. com forward slash H. M 1, 5 9. So very, very fascinating work that I dove into a few years ago, and it's still with me. I have my report in my desk, and every now and then I take it back out. I'm like, oh, yes, that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. For example, it gave me the information that I'm actually meant to work with.[00:13:00] [00:13:00] One too many, so writing books, for example, or doing the group coaching, I thought that I was just meant to work one on one because I was an introvert and yet when the human report came out and I worked with someone on, on that. We realized, well, actually, no, it's not so much about one on one or not only about one on one. [00:13:26] So that was interesting for me. So yeah, have a listen to episode 159 with Julian Cross and Hill, who talks about human design. Yet another one is the fascination advantage. So that's more about. looking at how the world sees us rather than how we see the world. And this one really is more marketing oriented. [00:13:49] It's It's really interesting to find out also that often people see us differently from how we see ourselves. So the exact [00:14:00] words that people would use to describe us and the types of tasks that perfectly fit our personal brand and, and then it gives you these 42 personality archetypes, which seems like a lot. [00:14:16] But There's been a lot of research behind that and really it, it is, yeah, it is fascinating. And when I took it a few years ago, I came out as the maverick leader and my kind of Power was innovation and power. And now that I took it again, power stayed the same and innovation changed to mystique, which mystique is the language of listening, which also fits me well. [00:14:46] So it's just interesting to see and find out how the world sees you. And then also kind of receive this language that people would use. Well, I would never. [00:15:00] Describe myself as a maverick leader. I wouldn't put those words out there, but it's interesting to hear and see that maybe that's how people perceive me. [00:15:13] So yeah, very interesting information in that report. It used to be free. Now, unfortunately it's no longer free and it's. I think it's around 70 bucks a client you recently told me so, but I would say it's, it's, if you're interested in that kind of thing, it's definitely worth doing that once. So all these results really help us realize who we are and what we're good at and what our unique holistic marketing superpower is. [00:15:43] There's probably others. Oh, there's one I'm thinking of from Jonathan Fields called What's your SPARCA type? And that one is also a bit more like skills oriented like work oriented. So you'll find that on Jonathan Field's [00:16:00] website, or if you just Google SPARCA type and, and another interesting of these self assessments. [00:16:07] And again, we don't have to. You know, take these labels for granted. Things can change and we don't have to put ourselves into this box. But to me, it really informs us a bit about how we're wired and then. You know, we can tap into that and say, yeah let me explore this and find out how I can use this to my best advantage. [00:16:33] So, for example, if I'd work with a coach that told me that I have to speak on stage every week, that would really not work for me. I'd be totally outside of my comfort zone all the time and probably end up with a burnout in a few months. All about expanding our comfort zone every now and then, like I'm doing in a couple of weeks by going to a big summit about the inner [00:17:00] development goals in, in Sweden. [00:17:01] So again, these inner development goals that I mentioned earlier, it's just really right now at a topic that I'm fascinated. of and really interested in and so these summits are, they're, yeah, I'm an introvert as you know and so going to a big summit like that is, yeah, outside of my comfort zone, but it's. [00:17:25] Okay for me to expand that comfort zone every now and then, but for most of the time, I agree with my friend, Adam, who has this concept that he calls inside the comfort zone. And I think that's why we're doing these personality assessments and figuring out our unique, holistic superpower is that for most of the time we can operate within. [00:17:49] our comfort zone. And I really think we are our best selves and do our best work when we truly know who we are and bring all of us [00:18:00] to our work. No masks. We're not faking it until we are making it. Right? Most of the time, I would say probably 98 percent we do our best work if we are truly just who we are. [00:18:13] 2 percent of the time, yeah, we'll have to put on a little mask. And, and, you know, for me, it's usually kind of faking the small talk or, or pretending I'm fine when I'm actually having a headache, which happens a lot. But other than that. I just, you know, operate best if I'm truly inside the comfort zone and, and being my true self. [00:18:38] Another thing knowing my personal power helped me understand is that I need a lot of spaciousness in my days. Even though I call myself a conscious business coach, I don't enjoy coaching loads of clients at the same time. My brain just can't handle it. Another thing I didn't I mentioned so [00:19:00] much here is that I'm a highly sensitive person, that's, you know, it's not a, in a, in a personality assessment, but it's, it's a trait. [00:19:08] It's a personality trait. And so, Understanding this about myself that I'm highly sensitive and that my brain quite quickly probably more quickly than other people goes into overload, it just made me understand, well, I can't be this coach like other people are coaching all day long and having like six, seven coaching clients per day, it's, it's not good for me. [00:19:36] So that's why I shifted my business model to now work only with three. one on one clients at a time and they of course get then my full attention and I can over deliver because I'm not spread too thin. Besides the one on one clients, I then also offer the community and the group program and soon a second one that I'm [00:20:00] calling the business book alchemist. [00:20:02] If you're on my email list, you already know about this one. So another story that comes to about how my values helped me. Make a business decision is the story about the trademark issue with gentle marketing. If you've been in my world for a while, you already know this story that after I published the first book then called the gentle marketing revolution, I received a seasoned assist letter and was told I can no longer use that term. [00:20:33] And so. That was really, really hard, as you can imagine. But sticking to my values where a lot of people kind of even, you know, nice, like friends almost, like at least business friends told me, well, you know, maybe you can fight this. I'm sure there's, there's a gray zone because she's in the U. S. You're in Switzerland, you know, just lawyer up, get a lawyer and, and, and I'm sure you [00:21:00] can fight this. [00:21:01] And yet. That was going so much against my values. I'm like, I don't believe in competition. I believe in collaboration. I don't believe in owning stuff, especially gentle stuff, you know, gentle words. How could I, Sarah, own a word and say, this is now mine. Nobody. It's allowed to use it anymore, especially if I'm calling it a revolution, right? [00:21:29] And so it was just completely against my values to go and say, Hey, this is going to be mine. I'm going to fight for it. And so it really helped me. with my intention, intuition and, and saying, well, I need to let this go. I need to, you know, say, okay, fine. I understand legally, this is yours and I move on and find a new term. [00:21:56] And I think, yeah, the, the values and kind of [00:22:00] in my. moral principles really helped me in this in this decision, which of course wasn't easy, but in the end, I'm, I'm so glad this happened. So yeah, in conclusion, finding our personal power is all about marketing from within. Aligned with our values and really feeling a hundred percent grounded in how we're communicating and it helps you find then also the tactics that are aligned with you and tune out at the same time, all the other noise and all the other shoulds, for example, I'm not on Instagram, I'm no longer on Twitter, I've quit Facebook, I only release one podcast every two weeks now where everybody's saying, well, you should At least, you know, two episodes per week, but it just didn't work for me. [00:22:53] So I do things aligned with my energy and my personal power, the way that [00:23:00] feels good and not what the latest guru marketer tells me to do. And I really, really think. It's so helpful to know what your personal power is, right? What your personal holistic and humane marketing superpower is. And I truly enjoy helping others find their holistic and humane marketing superpower by By guiding them through this journey of finding out, well, how are you wired? [00:23:32] What's your, what are your values? What's, what's your worldview? And, and if you've read my Marketing Like We're Human book, I have a special reader offer that you can find on my website. If you go to humane. dot marketing under the tab books, it's kind of hidden away, it's under the tab books, not offerings. [00:23:51] And so you, you click at the bottom, it says special reader offer. And it's a one off power hour with me [00:24:00] that comes with a 16 page workbook that I'd like you to prepare and reflect on before our time together. So it's really, it's deep work and I'll have you. You know, look at some of these assessments and then we can figure out together, well, what is your humane and holistic marketing superpowers so that you too can tune out all the rest. [00:24:23] And maybe for you, it is Instagram, right? It's not going to be me saying, Oh, but for me, Instagram doesn't work. And so it shouldn't work for you either. It really depends on what you enjoy and how you're wired. And what your energy looks like. So if you're listening to this and think, oh, that would be really helpful, I'd love to help you and find more clarity and ease by figuring out your holistic and humane marketing superpower. [00:24:53] So again, it's at humane. marketing. And then you just look for the tab [00:25:00] books and underneath there, you'll. Find the special reader offer. I really hope you got some value from my ramblings about superpower and humane holistic superpowers. Maybe take some of the assessments that I mentioned. I think it's really, really helpful. [00:25:19] Personal Power is also the second module of the Marketing Like We're Human, aka the Client Resonator Program. So you can find out more about that by going to humane. marketing forward slash program. And if you're looking for others who think like you, then why not join us in the Humane Marketing Circle? [00:25:39] You can find out more about that at humane. marketing. com. Forward slash circle, you find the show notes of this episode at humane dot marketing forward slash H M one seven three. And on this beautiful page, you'll also find a series of free offers, the humane business manifesto, [00:26:00] and the free gentle confidence mini course. [00:26:02] As well as my two books, Marketing Like We're Human and Selling Like We're Human. Thank you so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares for yourself, your clients, and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers. So go be the change you want to see in the world. [00:26:22] Speak soon![00:27:00]

Today's conversation fits under the P of Personal Power If you're a regular here, you know that I'm organizing the conversations around the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. (If you're new here and don't know what I'm talking about you can download your 1page marketing plan with the Humane Marketing version of the 7 Ps of Marketing at humane.marketing/1page. It comes with 7 email prompts to really help you reflect on these different Ps). It's time for another short solo episode. This time I'd like to share a bit more about the 2nd P of Personal Power. I'll address: Why it's key to know your Personal Power in Humane Marketing How defining your core values dictates how you show up in the world What other personality assessments you can use to learn more about who you are How all this information helps you understand your Unique Holistic Marketing Super Power And how to bring all of that into your story Ep 173 text [00:00:00] Sarah: Hello, Humane Marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non pushy. [00:00:23] I'm Sarah Zanacroce, your hippie turned business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama bear of the humane marketing circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. [00:00:58] If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a Zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way. [00:01:16] We share with transparency and vulnerability what works for us. And what doesn't work, so that you can figure out what works for you, instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane. marketing forward slash circle. And if you prefer one on one support from me, my humane business coaching could be just what you need. [00:01:40] Whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book, I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you, together with my almost 50. Years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my Mama Bear qualities as my one-on-one client, and find out more at Humane Marketing slash Coaching. [00:02:09] And finally, if you are a Marketing Impact pioneer and would like to bring Humane Marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website at Humane. [00:02:34] Hello friends, welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast. Today's conversation, well, it's a solo episode fits under the P of personal power. If you're a regular here, you know that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven P's. of the Humane Marketing Mandala. If this is your first time here, a very warm welcome. [00:02:57] You probably don't know what I'm talking about, but [00:03:00] you can download your one page marketing plan with the Humane Marketing version of the seven Ps of marketing at humane. marketing forward slash one page. That's the number one and the word page. And humane is with an E at the end. I noticed that non English speakers don't always know that human and humane are spelled differently. [00:03:24] So humane is with an E at the end. And this comes with a seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different P's for your business. So it's time for another. short solo episode and this time I'd like to share a bit more about the second P, the one that stands for personal power. I'll be talking about why it's key to know your personal power in humane marketing, how defining your core values really dictates how you show up in the world, [00:04:00] what other personality assessments you can do. [00:04:02] News to learn more about who you are, how all this information helps you understand your unique holistic marketing superpower. How to bring all of that into your story and just create a business that is aligned with who you are and therefore, you know, also marketed from within. Who am I? That's the question here, right? [00:04:28] And so this is the other P together with passion or purpose, the first P that was completely missing in the traditional marketing model. Before we never looked at ourselves first. It was all about the customer because the customer was king. And so we had to kind of chase after this customer. So I really think it has to do with the human evolution. [00:04:54] We want to self actualize. So it makes sense to learn more about [00:05:00] ourselves first in order to then find out who's a good match for us. It's very aligned also with the inner development goals. Something that I'm recently very much fascinated by and. kind of following the movement, participating in the movement. [00:05:18] So if you haven't heard about the inner development goals, definitely look that up. It's the pendant of the sustainable development goals. But again, as the word says, it's starting within, starting with ourselves. And so it's the same here. We're starting marketing within, within, within ourselves. So it's really. [00:05:39] principle of the resonance, right? So that we find out who we are first in order to resonate with ideal clients who are aligned with us. And marketing with integrity really means marketing in our wholeness. So that's why we need to start with [00:06:00] ourselves. So the first thing we look at, and I'm sure you heard about this before, is our values. [00:06:07] You know, what are our core. Usually it's three or five. So if you haven't done this exercise yet or haven't done it recently, I really highly recommend that you look at your values again, because they actually also change. So there's a free core values assessment. If you Google personal values assessment, you'll, you'll find probably several, but Yeah, they're, they're all pretty much the same. [00:06:36] So you just pick first 10 values and then you narrow it down to five or three. And mine currently are freedom, curiosity, joy. health and honesty. So these are kind of my top five values. In her books, Brene Brown talks about her two [00:07:00] guiding values being courage and faith and how she always thinks about these main values whenever she makes a decision. [00:07:07] For example, freedom is my number one value whenever I don't feel free. I feel trapped and knowing that about myself has really helped me with business decisions. For example, I'm not an ideal fit for working with a business partner under the same company. I just wouldn't feel free to do whatever I want. [00:07:30] It also means that I do my best work with entrepreneurs who also often have this urge for freedom. A few years ago, I trained all the consultants of the local unemployment offices on how to help their clients with LinkedIn. And I really did not like it. They were not my people. They had been working at their jobs for. [00:07:55] And they didn't share this value of freedom and [00:08:00] curiosity and and the growth mindset. So yeah, looking at our values and knowing what they are and bringing them into our work and into our marketing and into our Business decisions is really really key. Another thing I talk about in the Marketing Like We're Human program under the personal P, personal power P, is the Myers Briggs personality assessment. [00:08:28] I'm sure all of us have taken that already at one point in our life. My type is INFJ, so knowing this about myself helps me understand more about my energy. That I'm more introverted and more intuitive. I'm not driven by numbers and stats. I love people but I need to refill my battery by being alone. [00:08:55] So, It's a, it's a good assessment to really know how, how [00:09:00] you're wired and it helps you again with your marketing and your business decisions because it, it teaches you how you do your best work, right? Another one we look at is the Enneagram. I don't know much about that, I think I'm a four, but it's also an interesting one to look at, so if, if that calls you maybe because of the drawing or it just speaks to you more, then definitely have a look at that. [00:09:29] Another one is the, the Strengths Assessment. So, it's called the V I A Institute of Character Strengths, and it's organized in 24 character strengths in different degrees, giving each person a unique character profile. And so, Then it also gives you kind of your six most important character strengths, and which is just also, you know, interesting to look [00:10:00] at. [00:10:00] So mine were Humility, Love of Learning, which is again similar to my Value of Curiosity, Judgment, which is the same J of INFJ. So Judgment, my Husband Tony always makes fun of me about that because I am quite a judgy also with people and say I don't like these pants Things like that, but that's not what it stands for in the Myers Briggs assessment It the J is really about planning everything ahead of time and not being so good with spontaneity And so that's very much me very You know future planning so judgment is my third. [00:10:46] Then fourth is creativity, which is still true. Then fifth is gratitude, which is also true. And then sixth is kindness. So again, it's a lot of confirmation, but knowing this about. [00:11:00] myself lets me tap into it more into, you know, bring that into my marketing. Like I call myself the mama bear of the humane marketing circle. [00:11:10] Well, it is that, you know, kindness, for example comes out of this term. So it's just informs us about different aspects of ourself that we can bring into our communication and our business. Another one of these. It's not really an assessment. It's much bigger than an assessment. I don't know what you would call it. [00:11:35] It, it is human design that is based on astrology and a very similar type of thing is, is called gene keys. So you probably either know human design or you know gene keys, but they're very similar, I would say, because they're based on astrology. And I'm a five... One generator, so there's different profiles, [00:12:00] and I am really usually full of energy. [00:12:04] That's what the generator means. I, I, you know, intrinsically create energy. And so again, just kind of learning more about this human design and it goes into a lot of depth. If you're curious about human design, I highly recommend you listen to episode 159 with Julian Cross and Hill, who is a human design specialist. [00:12:29] And you can find that episode at humane. marketing. com forward slash H. M 1, 5 9. So very, very fascinating work that I dove into a few years ago, and it's still with me. I have my report in my desk, and every now and then I take it back out. I'm like, oh, yes, that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. For example, it gave me the information that I'm actually meant to work with.[00:13:00] [00:13:00] One too many, so writing books, for example, or doing the group coaching, I thought that I was just meant to work one on one because I was an introvert and yet when the human report came out and I worked with someone on, on that. We realized, well, actually, no, it's not so much about one on one or not only about one on one. [00:13:26] So that was interesting for me. So yeah, have a listen to episode 159 with Julian Cross and Hill, who talks about human design. Yet another one is the fascination advantage. So that's more about. looking at how the world sees us rather than how we see the world. And this one really is more marketing oriented. [00:13:49] It's It's really interesting to find out also that often people see us differently from how we see ourselves. So the exact [00:14:00] words that people would use to describe us and the types of tasks that perfectly fit our personal brand and, and then it gives you these 42 personality archetypes, which seems like a lot. [00:14:16] But There's been a lot of research behind that and really it, it is, yeah, it is fascinating. And when I took it a few years ago, I came out as the maverick leader and my kind of Power was innovation and power. And now that I took it again, power stayed the same and innovation changed to mystique, which mystique is the language of listening, which also fits me well. [00:14:46] So it's just interesting to see and find out how the world sees you. And then also kind of receive this language that people would use. Well, I would never. [00:15:00] Describe myself as a maverick leader. I wouldn't put those words out there, but it's interesting to hear and see that maybe that's how people perceive me. [00:15:13] So yeah, very interesting information in that report. It used to be free. Now, unfortunately it's no longer free and it's. I think it's around 70 bucks a client you recently told me so, but I would say it's, it's, if you're interested in that kind of thing, it's definitely worth doing that once. So all these results really help us realize who we are and what we're good at and what our unique holistic marketing superpower is. [00:15:43] There's probably others. Oh, there's one I'm thinking of from Jonathan Fields called What's your SPARCA type? And that one is also a bit more like skills oriented like work oriented. So you'll find that on Jonathan Field's [00:16:00] website, or if you just Google SPARCA type and, and another interesting of these self assessments. [00:16:07] And again, we don't have to. You know, take these labels for granted. Things can change and we don't have to put ourselves into this box. But to me, it really informs us a bit about how we're wired and then. You know, we can tap into that and say, yeah let me explore this and find out how I can use this to my best advantage. [00:16:33] So, for example, if I'd work with a coach that told me that I have to speak on stage every week, that would really not work for me. I'd be totally outside of my comfort zone all the time and probably end up with a burnout in a few months. All about expanding our comfort zone every now and then, like I'm doing in a couple of weeks by going to a big summit about the inner [00:17:00] development goals in, in Sweden. [00:17:01] So again, these inner development goals that I mentioned earlier, it's just really right now at a topic that I'm fascinated. of and really interested in and so these summits are, they're, yeah, I'm an introvert as you know and so going to a big summit like that is, yeah, outside of my comfort zone, but it's. [00:17:25] Okay for me to expand that comfort zone every now and then, but for most of the time, I agree with my friend, Adam, who has this concept that he calls inside the comfort zone. And I think that's why we're doing these personality assessments and figuring out our unique, holistic superpower is that for most of the time we can operate within. [00:17:49] our comfort zone. And I really think we are our best selves and do our best work when we truly know who we are and bring all of us [00:18:00] to our work. No masks. We're not faking it until we are making it. Right? Most of the time, I would say probably 98 percent we do our best work if we are truly just who we are. [00:18:13] 2 percent of the time, yeah, we'll have to put on a little mask. And, and, you know, for me, it's usually kind of faking the small talk or, or pretending I'm fine when I'm actually having a headache, which happens a lot. But other than that. I just, you know, operate best if I'm truly inside the comfort zone and, and being my true self. [00:18:38] Another thing knowing my personal power helped me understand is that I need a lot of spaciousness in my days. Even though I call myself a conscious business coach, I don't enjoy coaching loads of clients at the same time. My brain just can't handle it. Another thing I didn't I mentioned so [00:19:00] much here is that I'm a highly sensitive person, that's, you know, it's not a, in a, in a personality assessment, but it's, it's a trait. [00:19:08] It's a personality trait. And so, Understanding this about myself that I'm highly sensitive and that my brain quite quickly probably more quickly than other people goes into overload, it just made me understand, well, I can't be this coach like other people are coaching all day long and having like six, seven coaching clients per day, it's, it's not good for me. [00:19:36] So that's why I shifted my business model to now work only with three. one on one clients at a time and they of course get then my full attention and I can over deliver because I'm not spread too thin. Besides the one on one clients, I then also offer the community and the group program and soon a second one that I'm [00:20:00] calling the business book alchemist. [00:20:02] If you're on my email list, you already know about this one. So another story that comes to about how my values helped me. Make a business decision is the story about the trademark issue with gentle marketing. If you've been in my world for a while, you already know this story that after I published the first book then called the gentle marketing revolution, I received a seasoned assist letter and was told I can no longer use that term. [00:20:33] And so. That was really, really hard, as you can imagine. But sticking to my values where a lot of people kind of even, you know, nice, like friends almost, like at least business friends told me, well, you know, maybe you can fight this. I'm sure there's, there's a gray zone because she's in the U. S. You're in Switzerland, you know, just lawyer up, get a lawyer and, and, and I'm sure you [00:21:00] can fight this. [00:21:01] And yet. That was going so much against my values. I'm like, I don't believe in competition. I believe in collaboration. I don't believe in owning stuff, especially gentle stuff, you know, gentle words. How could I, Sarah, own a word and say, this is now mine. Nobody. It's allowed to use it anymore, especially if I'm calling it a revolution, right? [00:21:29] And so it was just completely against my values to go and say, Hey, this is going to be mine. I'm going to fight for it. And so it really helped me. with my intention, intuition and, and saying, well, I need to let this go. I need to, you know, say, okay, fine. I understand legally, this is yours and I move on and find a new term. [00:21:56] And I think, yeah, the, the values and kind of [00:22:00] in my. moral principles really helped me in this in this decision, which of course wasn't easy, but in the end, I'm, I'm so glad this happened. So yeah, in conclusion, finding our personal power is all about marketing from within. Aligned with our values and really feeling a hundred percent grounded in how we're communicating and it helps you find then also the tactics that are aligned with you and tune out at the same time, all the other noise and all the other shoulds, for example, I'm not on Instagram, I'm no longer on Twitter, I've quit Facebook, I only release one podcast every two weeks now where everybody's saying, well, you should At least, you know, two episodes per week, but it just didn't work for me. [00:22:53] So I do things aligned with my energy and my personal power, the way that [00:23:00] feels good and not what the latest guru marketer tells me to do. And I really, really think. It's so helpful to know what your personal power is, right? What your personal holistic and humane marketing superpower is. And I truly enjoy helping others find their holistic and humane marketing superpower by By guiding them through this journey of finding out, well, how are you wired? [00:23:32] What's your, what are your values? What's, what's your worldview? And, and if you've read my Marketing Like We're Human book, I have a special reader offer that you can find on my website. If you go to humane. dot marketing under the tab books, it's kind of hidden away, it's under the tab books, not offerings. [00:23:51] And so you, you click at the bottom, it says special reader offer. And it's a one off power hour with me [00:24:00] that comes with a 16 page workbook that I'd like you to prepare and reflect on before our time together. So it's really, it's deep work and I'll have you. You know, look at some of these assessments and then we can figure out together, well, what is your humane and holistic marketing superpowers so that you too can tune out all the rest. [00:24:23] And maybe for you, it is Instagram, right? It's not going to be me saying, Oh, but for me, Instagram doesn't work. And so it shouldn't work for you either. It really depends on what you enjoy and how you're wired. And what your energy looks like. So if you're listening to this and think, oh, that would be really helpful, I'd love to help you and find more clarity and ease by figuring out your holistic and humane marketing superpower. [00:24:53] So again, it's at humane. marketing. And then you just look for the tab [00:25:00] books and underneath there, you'll. Find the special reader offer. I really hope you got some value from my ramblings about superpower and humane holistic superpowers. Maybe take some of the assessments that I mentioned. I think it's really, really helpful. [00:25:19] Personal Power is also the second module of the Marketing Like We're Human, aka the Client Resonator Program. So you can find out more about that by going to humane. marketing forward slash program. And if you're looking for others who think like you, then why not join us in the Humane Marketing Circle? [00:25:39] You can find out more about that at humane. marketing. com. Forward slash circle, you find the show notes of this episode at humane dot marketing forward slash H M one seven three. And on this beautiful page, you'll also find a series of free offers, the humane business manifesto, [00:26:00] and the free gentle confidence mini course. [00:26:02] As well as my two books, Marketing Like We're Human and Selling Like We're Human. Thank you so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares for yourself, your clients, and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers. So go be the change you want to see in the world. [00:26:22] Speak soon![00:27:00]

Today's conversation fits under the P of People If you're a regular here, you know that I'm organizing the conversations around the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. (If you're new here and don't know what I'm talking about you can download your 1page marketing plan with the Humane Marketing version of the 7 Ps of Marketing at humane.marketing/1page. It comes with 7 email prompts to really help you reflect on these different Ps). So, we're talking about the P of people or H of Humans. Only 5 years ago, if I said 'People' you probably pictured a room full of people, or you and your clients or you and your friends going for a walk. Today, in the business context, a lot of the People stuff happens online, on Zoom. I've been working online for many years before the pandemic, so it wasn't a big change for me. I remember putting up a bonus free webinar to help teachers get acquinted with Zoom in the early months of the pandemic. Well, now everyone is Zooming. But not everyone does it well. Just the other week I watched a really quite uncomfortable Zoom call (or a teams call in that case) in a corporate setting where only the manager who was talking was on video, everyone else was hiding behind the screen. When he asked questions, there were long uncomfortable silences. I've myself had to really learn and still learning how facilitate groups on Zoom like our Humane Marketing Circle while giving everyone a chance to speak, and still keep the intimacy in breakout rooms. That's why I'm really excited to be able to learn from today's guest, Robbie Samuels. Robbie has been recognized as a networking expert by NPR, PCMA, Harvard Business Review, Forbes, and Inc, and as an expert in virtual event design by JDC Events. As a virtual event design consultant and executive Zoom producer, he helps organizations bring their events online with less stress and greater participant engagement. He is the author of three books, including his latest, ​​"Break Out of Boredom: Low-Tech Solutions for Highly Engaging Zoom Events." Since 2016, he has hosted the On the Schmooze podcast and, since March 2020, #NoMoreBadZoom Virtual Happy Hour. In today's episode, Robbie and I talk about: How to host virtual events that feel like we're human How to facilitate bigger groups Create valuable breakout rooms How to make sure everyone gets a turn to speak How to create a feeling of community between participants Best practices to make calls engaging and fun And so much more Thanks for listening! After you listen, check out Humane Business Manifesto, an invitation to belong to a movement of people who do business the humane and gentle way and disrupt the current marketing paradigm. You can download it for free at this page. There's no opt-in. Just an instant download. Are you enjoying the podcast? The Humane Marketing show is listener-supported—I'd love for you to become an active supporter of the show and join the Humane Marketing Circle. You will be invited to a private monthly Q&A call with me and fellow Humane Marketers - a safe zone to hang out with like-minded conscious entrepreneurs and help each other build our business and grow our impact. — I'd love for you to join us! Learn more at humane.marketing/circle Don't forget to subscribe to the show on iTunes or on Android to get notified for all my future shows and why not sign up for my weekly(ish) "Sarah Suggests Saturdays", a round-up of best practices, tools I use, books I read, podcasts, and other resources. Raise your hand and join the Humane Business Revolution. Warmly, Sarah Imperfect Transcript of the show We use and love Descript to edit our podcast and provide this free transcript of the episode. And yes, that's an affiliate link. Ep 160 Ep 160 [00:00:00] Sarah: Hello, humane marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non-pushy. [00:00:23] I'm Sarah z Croce, your hippie turn business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact by. Mama Bear of the Humane Marketing Circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you are ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like-minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency. [00:00:52] Works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like-minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a Zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business. [00:01:15] Sustainable way we share with transparency and vulnerability, what works for us and what doesn't work, so that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane.marketing/circle, and if you prefer one-on-one support from me. [00:01:37] My humane business Coaching could be just what you need, whether it's for your marketing, sales, general, business building, or help. Idea like writing a book. I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. [00:01:58] If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one-on-one client can find out more@humane.marketing slash. And finally, if you are a Marketing Impact pioneer and would like to bring Humane Marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website@humane.marketing. [00:02:33] Hi, friends. Welcome back. Today's conversation fits under the P of people. If you're a regular here, you know that I'm appreciating you and that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven Ps. Of the Humane Marketing Mandala, and if you're new here, I appreciate you just as much, and maybe you don't know what I'm talking about, but you can download your one page marketing plan with the [00:03:00] humane marketing version of the seven Ps of marketing@humane.marketing slash. [00:03:06] One page, the number one, then the word page, and this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different Ps and kind of question all your assumptions around them. So we're talking about the P of people or the. Age of humans today, and you know, only five years ago if I said people, you probably pictured their room full of people or you and your clients, or you and your friends going for a walk. [00:03:38] But today, in the business context, a lot of the people stuff happens online on Zoom right now, I've been working online for many. Before the pandemic, so it wasn't a big change for me, but I remember putting up a bonus free webinar to help teachers get acquainted with Zoom in the early months of the pandemic because [00:04:00] none of the teachers knew how to use Zoom. [00:04:02] Of course. So everyone is zooming today, but not everyone does it well. Um, just the other week I watched a really quite uncomfortable zoom call or a teams call in that case, in a corporate setting where. Only the manager who was talking was on video, and everyone else was kind of hiding behind the screen. [00:04:25] And when he asked questions, there were like these long, uncomfortable silences and nobody answered. Not saying that silence is bad, silence is good, but in this case, if everybody's hidden behind their camera, then the poor manager obviously doesn't know what they're doing if they're even still there. So anyway. [00:04:46] Had to really learn, and I'm still learning myself how to facilitate groups on Zoom, like the ones in our humane marketing circle, while giving everyone a chance to speak [00:05:00] and still keep the intimacy in breakout rooms. So, yeah, I learned a lot over the last two years and that's why I'm super excited to be able to learn even more from today's guest, Robbie Samuels. [00:05:14] Robbie is a recognized networking expert and an expert in virtual event design. As a virtual event design consultant and executive Zoom producer, he helps organizations bring their events online with less stress and greater per participant engagement. He's the author of three books, including his latest. [00:05:36] Break out of boredom, low tech solutions for highly engaging Zoom events. Since 2016, he has hosted the Amish Schmooze Podcast and since March, 2020, the no more bad Zoom virtual happy hour. . So in this episode with Robbie, we talked about how to host virtual events that feel like we're [00:06:00] human, how to facilitate bigger groups, how to create valuable breakout rooms, how to make sure everyone gets a turn to speak, how to create a feeling of community between participants. [00:06:14] Best practices to make calls engaging and fun and so much more. As you will probably be able to tell, I really took this kind of like a, a mini coaching session for myself, and again, we're really applying this in our humane marketing circle. It's intimate, it's engaging everybody. Uh, turn or a chance to speak. [00:06:39] So if that's something you are curious about, do have a look at humane.marketing/circle. It's our community of humane marketers or entrepreneurs who want to market their business their way. We meet twice per month in an online setting. Right now it's Zoom, but [00:07:00] we'll actually change over to our own private live room on k. [00:07:05] Have a look at the details at humane.marketing/circle. And with that, let's welcome Robbie. Hey Robbie. So good to see you speak to you today. Yeah, thanks for having me here. Yeah, I'm excited. Uh, it's one of those topics, right, that five years ago we probably wouldn't be sitting on a call together, or at least not for that. [00:07:29] Probably more for networking, uh, because that's, that was your thing in the past or probably still is, but, but yeah, you kind of pivoted with the, with the pandemic and all. But yeah, I, I kind of. Dove right into it. So welcome to the Humane Marketing Podcast. I love you. You, I love to have you here. Why don't you take us a little bit into the past, but not too much, because we really wanna talk about, you know, zoom calls, group calls, [00:08:00] facilitation online, and all of that, which is the topic of your latest book as well. [00:08:05] So take us a little bit to the past and then to, to the. [00:08:09] Robbie: Well, Sarah, um, I spent over 10 years before the pandemic working to be recognized as a networking expert with a focus on networking at conferences, and that included writing a, my first book, launching a podcast. , um, creating a group coaching program, writing for Howard Business Review, doing a TEDx talk. [00:08:28] I was poised to be an overnight success 10 years in the making. Uh, my TEDx talk came out January, 2020, and by March, 2020 nobody cared. , it was sort of a, uh, not a very relevant topic to be an expert in around in-person networking because all in-person conferences and events really, Vanished. So I was trying to figure out how to show up and add value, and I wrote nine Ways to Network in a Pandemic as a, as a blog post on March 12th, 2020. [00:08:57] And one of those ways was to host [00:09:00] a virtual happy hour, which I did on March 13th. Unbeknownst to me that really launched a whole new thriving six figure business, uh, with all kinds of new revenue streams and really impacted a lot of other people's. I mean, it impacted my life, but the ripple effect is, has been extraordinary. [00:09:17] And by the end of the year, I was supporting organizations of bringing their events online with less stress and greater participant engagement. And as you mentioned, I am about to release on the three anniversary of that first virtual Happy hour, my third book, which is Break Out of Boredom, low Tech Solutions for Highly Engaging Zoom Event. [00:09:37] Sarah: Wonderful. Wow, what a comeback. Kudos to you. It must have been quite a dark night of the soul. I, I imagine that just kind of like realizing, oh my God, now what? [00:09:49] Robbie: Well, I mean, I, I accepted what was happening on March 9th because I had been paying attention to the news and mm-hmm. sort of was watching this come starting. [00:09:57] You saw this probably in January, just kinda like, [00:10:00] yeah. I was watching it kind of, kind of encroach our, our shores mm-hmm. and get closer and closer, so, I think I came to terms with it, uh, but I didn't know what to do next, and I don't like feeling that, I mean, I, I'm a person of action, so that feeling of being stuck. [00:10:14] But I was very fortunate because on uh, that Wednesday of that week, which is the 11th, I met with my peer mastermind and they gave me a kick in the pants and said, you don't think of networking as something that only happens in person. You have been building a global network for five years, virtually. [00:10:31] Why don't you go help people? And that got me outta my own way, and that's what led me to. Um, basically that night I started working on the nine ways list and, uh, published it the next day it got, you know, a good response cause it was very timely and I said, okay, I need to do one of these things. And I just looked at the list and it was 8:00 PM on a Thursday night , which is why the event is held five o'clock on a Friday cuz it was the next open spot that I could imagine calling a happy [00:11:00] hour. [00:11:00] And I didn't intend it to be a global network. A global event, but 36 countries have been represented amongst the members. Nice. Who attended I, and I'm still hosting it. Right? I'm still hosting that event. No more bad. zoom.com. Three years later. [00:11:13] Sarah: Wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's really it. It kind of demonstrates this idea of that you are not. [00:11:21] You know, you're, you're not kind of pushed into a niche, and that's where you are stuck for the rest of your life. There's a common thread to your message, right? And whether it is networking in person or now networking online and doing online meetings, Your concept or your approach to it is still the same? [00:11:41] Uh, it reminds me of my dark night of the soul where I got, you know, into a trademark mess where someone, um, was basically blocking me of using gentle marketing, which was the term I used before. And for like about two weeks, I was stuck a bit longer, Robbie, for about two weeks. I was like, well, now what? [00:11:59] [00:12:00] You know, how, how do I get out of this? And everything, everything I built, the books I published and, and two years of work and all of that. But then I realized, people told me as well, it's, well, it's not about a word. You know, you still have the community, you still have the concept, and, and so it's just mm-hmm. [00:12:17] It's great to hear those stories, I think. Right. For listeners as well to realize, well, you know, you can rebound. and, and start something new and it's still gonna be you and it's still giving you your approach, but, you know, just slightly different topic. So, so yeah, let's talk about this slightly different topic because, uh, as you, I think, uh, in one of the videos I watched from you, you said, you know, at the beginning you didn't even know you had breakout rooms, came with your free Zoom account. [00:12:48] And so yeah, that's how we all felt at the beginning of the pandemic. Been working online for years and years. So I knew Zoom, but it's true that a lot of people had like no idea [00:13:00] how to, you know, for me as well, breakout rooms was not a thing that I was using. So nowadays obviously everybody is zooming or, or teams or whatever they're using. [00:13:10] So how do you s how have you seen this evolve? Like what would you say in general? is the kind of the state of the online meetings now. Mm-hmm. . Do most people use them to their advantage and you know that it's really great. All these Zoom meetings we have, or do you hear kind of the opposite? [00:13:33] Robbie: Well, just to go back to your earlier point, the through line for me is that events are about content and connection. [00:13:39] Right. People were leaving their house and getting on planes to travel to conferences, not just for the information they would learn, but for the people they would meet. Right. And so when events became synonymous with the virtual events, I knew we needed to figure out a way to make that possible virtually. [00:13:57] Now, prior to the pandemic, An [00:14:00] online program, which was typically a webinar platform where you couldn't see participants and participants couldn't see each other. Right. It was 45 minutes of death by PowerPoint, followed by ineffectual Q and A on moderating chat . Oh God. Yeah. So I think we've come a long way in what our expectations are, but I also think it depends on the industry. [00:14:19] Because I still know, you know, I've, I've been invited to do some programming virtually for the employee resource group of like a bank or a law firm or financial sector. And like, they tend to be blown away by what I'm doing because they're using it in a very, Minimalist approach to how they use whatever platform they're using. [00:14:42] They're just like turning on their camera and that's it. And [00:14:46] Sarah: if that, because I've assisted to some of the meetings my husband has to kind of survive through and yeah, nobody is on camera like. . [00:14:55] Robbie: That's just it. So, so I think that it really is a range. I can't answer like one way, but I [00:15:00] also don't focus personally on corporate space or the workforce. [00:15:03] Mm-hmm. , I'm my book and my approach is really focusing on the presenters who have between 60 and 90 minutes to offer value to a one-time audience. now, and a lot of this can be therefore applied if you are teaching, uh, a course or a class, this is, you know, or even like a, a weekly team meeting, you can apply a lot of this to that. [00:15:25] But I think there's, there's a few more restrictions. So, for instance, I don't recommend using third party. Tools like Mentee Meter and Jamboard, which I love. But if you only have 60, 75, 90 minutes, you might lose people because if they don't, if they're not familiar and you don't know if they're familiar cuz you don't know the audience super well, you might lose them. [00:15:45] And, and if, if it's about engagement, you're gonna get 70 to 90% of people to responding to a Zoom poll. And you might get 30 to 50% actually answering. , one of these third party polls. Mm-hmm. . And so [00:16:00] yes, it's fancy, yes, it's cool , but if the end result is fewer people actually taking action and people feeling a little bit confused about something, that's not where we want people to be. [00:16:11] So I also, I really focus a lot in the book and in the work that I do on some principles around purpose first design and also quality facilitation. So I'm, I'm specifically focusing on the Zoom. As far as the technology, but those other pieces around facilitation and purpose first design are applicable to any medium, including in person. [00:16:36] Mm-hmm. . So I think there's a strong Venn diagram because I also do in-person event design consulting, and I've been doing that a long time. And then back to doing that again now that people are backed in person. So to me there's a big overlap. How you design an in-person workshop or presentation for 90 minutes and online, but then there's the outliers that you have to consider for both. [00:16:58] So I think that there's a lot of [00:17:00] potential. I've done incredible programming. I've got some great stories in the book about some really cool outcomes we've achieved by bringing people together across geographies to have really in depth conversations about important topics. . I also think that people's tolerance for the sort of boring approach, , is they really don't have any, like, I think people are zoomed out and zoom fatigue. [00:17:24] That's why I call it breakout of boredom. And, and by, by the way, breakout rooms, I went from not knowing I had access to, you know, , I dunno, my book's like 60 some odd thousand words and like 10,000 words. Almost 20% is about breakout rooms. So, [00:17:40] Sarah: yeah. So let's go there. Um, I, I wanna really have you walk us through kind of some of these, you know, yes, they're technicalities, but I think the way you explain them is always comes back to purpose. [00:17:54] You know, like what is. , what's the common [00:18:00] purpose for, uh, us to be on this call? That's how I understood it, um, when I went through this checklist that you'll share with us at the end. So let's start with the waiting room, right? Um, that's usually our first experience when we go on to a Zoom meeting. So how, if we are, if my listeners are hosting a group, uh, zoom. [00:18:24] what are some of the things that can be done? Let's just take Zoom as an example, can be done to already kind of give people this feeling of I belong, or this is, I'm a, I'm on in the right group here. Sure. Like what [00:18:39] Robbie: can we do? Well, for starters, if you're having a group meeting, stop using your personal meeting room because, uh, you, if you write, if you create a meeting, a specific meeting for. [00:18:53] Group, then the name of that meeting will be what appears in the waiting room. Um, so that'll assure people. But you can [00:19:00] also have different settings. So if you use a different link, you could set it so that participants are muted upon entry. Mm-hmm. . Now for why one-on-one calls, I do use my personal meeting ID and I don't mute people because if it's just two of us, I, I don't need you to be muted. [00:19:18] It's actually kind of an inconvenience for you to be. Right, because people start talking and I have to point out to them like, don't forget to unmute . Yeah, the usual, you're muted . Yeah. So then the other thing I would say for waiting rooms, you can customize it beyond that. And there's a bunch of different options. [00:19:33] A lot of what I'm gonna be sharing is under zoom.us, and then you go to settings, which is on the left side menu, and you can just start from the top. And actually really close to the top is waiting rooms. So there's some really cool customi customization, uh, including you can embed a video, you can put an image, you can put text. [00:19:50] Um, I sometimes have texts just says, , take a breath. You know, like, yeah. Take a, take a moment to yourself. Mm-hmm. before you come in. Yeah. But you need [00:20:00] to know that whatever you put for your customization will be what people see for all of your meetings. For that one account. So Okay. If you make a special video for like a big event you're doing, you have to then remember, put a note on your calendar to switch it back to whatever. [00:20:14] You're more general, so you can [00:20:16] Sarah: customized each waiting room separately for each meeting. It's just one you [00:20:21] Robbie: can, but you'd have to like keep going back in and remembering to switch it on and off. Right. [00:20:25] Sarah: Okay. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Okay, great. So, uh, one question. Can people chat already in the waiting room? [00:20:33] I don't think so. Right. [00:20:35] Robbie: Uh, they can't, uh, right now the host can communicate with people in the waiting room. Uh, and I think that they're gonna come out with a feature where the waiting room can then respond back to the host individually. Okay. Um, they, you cannot change your name, for instance, in the waiting. [00:20:53] but the host can change your name. So there's some new features that are coming out. Okay. Um, but I also wanna go back to, [00:21:00] you mentioned purpose first design, and I, I address it as well. So I want you to think about, as people are coming into your session, they're going to be thinking, feeling, and you're doing. [00:21:11] one thing. At the end of their time together, they're gonna be thinking, feeling, and or doing something else. And then in between is the transformation, right? So if you really spend some time thinking about where they're starting and where you want them to end up, that will help you decide. The structure flow, what exercises, what kind of content, how much time to spend on things, what to put in the waiting room, whether or not to have a breakout room. [00:21:38] If so, what kind of question? What kind of, what is the goal of, even for a breakout room, like what's the purpose of a breakout room? Is it around networking? Is it for them to discuss something? Is it for them to share? Is for them to feel like they belong. Like once you understand the sort of really primary focus of each piece of it and how it fits in with that overall goal, it's gonna help you design a much better [00:22:00] quality experience for your participants. [00:22:02] So that's the purpose first design piece. And then the facilitation is just to stop confusing people by saying the incorrect thing. Like go ahead and raise your hand in chat. Never been a raised hand button in chat. I've heard that phrase a lot. Or pointing down and like pointing, uh, pointing here and saying, go to reactions when that's not where it is. [00:22:28] Reactions on your side is on he over here. So if I, if I go to tell you like, um, oh, go ahead and go ahead and, uh, go to the top right of your screen and click. I'm not pointing at the right side of your screen. . This is the right side of your screen. So that's cold mirroring . Mm-hmm. And if you were on a stage physically, you would, you would know that, right? [00:22:51] Like you would know that if you pointed to your left, they're gonna see it on the right. But when we're doing this virtually, people kind of forgot all about that. So that just [00:23:00] hurts our brains. It makes our brains work a little extra hard. And that's part of that zoom fatigue is confusing instructions. [00:23:07] Um, The person who spends a lot of time saying, um, all right, let's see. I'm gonna try to share my slides. Let's see. Oh, the file's not open. And then they like, share their desktop. And you watch them like go through everything on their desktop. You're like, uhhuh, as they like narrate every step. That's, we can all get 5% better every time we zoom. [00:23:30] Yeah. Whether we're participating, whether we're hosting, whether we're speaking. Just aim to get that little bit better. . [00:23:37] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. There's so many small details that we need to learn, right? That, that now it's this extra layer. And actually in some of the videos you, you mentioned it's really helpful to a first, have an extra, um, screen that you can, you know, have one just dedicated screen for your PowerPoint presentation, for example. [00:23:58] Mm-hmm. , uh, [00:24:00] and even, uh, an extra person, like someone who helps you, you know, read through their questions in a q and a setting, or, yeah, just like there's so many things that we have to manage that, or we haven't even started talking about breakout rooms. But yeah, there's a lot of things going on that it, it really is sometimes helpful to have a, an extra person. [00:24:22] Robbie: Mm-hmm. , I think if, um, if you have more than 20 people, , I think it's, it starts to be a, for most people, that's where it makes sense to start thinking about having a second person. Right. But that second person, um, could be like a fellow. Uh, I, I know for instance, I know speakers who sh who support each other. [00:24:42] Right. Will they take turns? Like one will moderate chat for one person's program and then the other one will go back and moderate chat for the other person's program? Yeah. Awesome. You can train an assistant or, uh, an. or you know, a VA or even a member of your community to manage chat and manage the q and a [00:25:00] and manage, you know, all of that. [00:25:01] So yeah, it, it, it, and then, but it scales up because, you know, I, I train people on to be Zoom producers, and so Zoom producer would do all the tech, not just the chat. They would handle any technical issues that. You know, community has getting in, getting their sound to work. And then they would also, uh, manage breakout rooms and sharing slides if you need them to, any, anything needed. [00:25:27] Uh, as well as managing chat. And then there's the executive sort of, uh, event design, virtual event design that I do where I'm really providing the strategy ahead of time, training the speakers and how to look good, all that stuff. So it, there's layer. . But I would say starting with having a. Understanding of what does a good Q and A even look like? [00:25:50] Mm-hmm. , and then what kind of support you might need to pull that off. If you've only got six or seven people in a room, I think you're, you're fine on your own. Fine. Yeah. But you still have to know that [00:26:00] while I'm doing my best to look at the camera, there's something happening in chat. So I have sort of techniques where I ask people to write their question and chat, but to write the word question in all caps before their question. [00:26:13] So I'm more likely to. To see it. I also increase the font size by to 150% of the original font size in chat, which makes it a lot easier to catch when things are happening, um, off to side. So these are all little things that over time one thing becomes easier. Then you add on something else. So I'm not saying everyone has to do everything all at once. [00:26:36] That's the 5% part. Um, so I actually have a, a program called The 5% Advantage, and it's the, I launched it in May of 2020 and um, my wife was like, why would anyone wanna get 5% better ? And I said, no, no, every time it's about like continual improvement. , it's, it, it's amazing, like how much faster you will improve if you aim to just [00:27:00] keep getting a little bit better each time. [00:27:03] Sarah: I like that. Um, I do wanna ask you about breakout rooms cuz that's I think one of the things that Yeah, a lot of, uh, these. Programs, um, now include right now that we've gotten used to being on camera on Zoom, where it's not just like a webinar style anymore. And so one of the things you mentioned, um, is this idea of having clear instructions and, and I think I. [00:27:28] Really, I probably get better 5% every time I do it, but it's true that it's so essential to give clear instructions before sending people off into breakout rooms. Cuz you, you explained, you know the situation where people find themselves in the breakout room and they're like, Uh, anyone know what we have to do? [00:27:48] And, you know, they just start chatting about who they are and, and all of that. So, what's kind of like best practices about giving clear instructions, uh, for these breakout [00:27:58] Robbie: rooms? So start back [00:28:00] with the purpose first design. What is the goal of the session? The, the breakout part of this session? Um, if it's a quick icebreaker, then you can do either two people for five minutes or three for six. [00:28:11] If you can open more. I don't know, 10, 15 rooms. I would say three for. minutes is better cuz it's less likely that someone's gonna get stuck in a room by themself because of the internet. Um, failing one person. Um, but that would be like a quick icebreaker question. So they're just, they're literally just going around for a moment to say hello to each other. [00:28:30] Uh, you might do three or four people for 10 minutes. To similarities, how people go around and answer a question. Um, each person gets a couple of minutes and then that goes all the way up to, you know, a discussion where people might get, you know, it might be five or six people for 15 minutes where people really all answer a quick question, but then they dive into. [00:28:49] thoughts about that question a little bit more. So what happens is that if you just sort of throw people in a room without any clear question, uh, someone will [00:29:00] eventually unmute. Like at first they're all gonna like, look at each other. Like, what do we do here? The person who's most comfortable, um, most privileged , uh, probably has been around this community the longest is, is gonna be the one who unmutes and they may not relinquish the microphone and it might become just a. [00:29:19] A whole session of one person talking and now you're in the main room and you're like, awesome People are engaged. They're having so much fun. But that's, that's like checkbox engagement. Like in reality, one person had the mic for the whole time. So what I wanted to say is intentional engagement is that we provide not only a question that is specific, one question, not lots, don't ask the choose from three and all that, but you also provide an answer. [00:29:46] So you say, , you know, what's your biggest win of the week? Here's mine to get you thinking. Here's mine that you then put the question that you just said as the prompt in chat, and you say, if you need [00:30:00] to, you can open up chat and see the question. And let's go alphabetically. Let's go alphabetically by last name. [00:30:07] So if your last name's closest to a, you'll go first. We'll go in that order. And if you don't have a last name showing, go ahead and add it. Or you're going first. Hmm. And that way they get in their brains have already been thinking about the question. , when you tell your answer, you're sharing a story and stories ignite stories in other people's brains. [00:30:27] Mm-hmm. . So when I tell you my big win of the week, you start thinking about, well, what's my big win of the week? Mm-hmm. . So you're already a little bit primed to participate, and then you find out the order and you realize. . Ooh, there's a good chance I'm gonna be going first. , like my last name's close to a, and you're like, oh. [00:30:43] So you really are mentally repaired to unmute and jump in. Now some people get kind of cutesy about the order and they do like longest and short hair or colors of shirts or birthdays. All of those are kind of distracting. Take some time to discuss. [00:31:00] Leading. I mean I've been in so many sessions like that, that we end up talking about horoscopes cuz we were asked to like go in the order of our birthdays, right? [00:31:09] So I generally, I say like alphabetical or, or reverse alphabetical by, um, first name or last name. And if you really think a particular order would be helpful, for instance, maybe people for most experience at least experience with something you can say when you get into the breakout rooms, go to chat and put in the. [00:31:27] Of years you have with this, and we'll use that to organize, you know, most experienced, at least experience. But, um, but all that structure is actually, um, it helps people feel like they belong. And I actually think that thoughtful structure is about inclusion. It's about people feeling not just invited, but welcomed into a conversation. [00:31:49] It tells shy people and introverted people and newcomer. and people who maybe you speak a language that's different than the dominant language being used, it tells [00:32:00] them exactly what the rules are. There's no like in crowd knows how to ask questions or how to unmute. Everybody knows everything. So I think we, we, um, we as hosts and facilitators sometime like relinquish our role by saying, you all figure it out, but just like an in-person event, like people thrown together at a bar. [00:32:24] Often find the people they wanna meet. But when you structure an event at a bar and you've got name tags and people who are welcoming, you've got activities, you have people in, you know, interacting and engaging with each other. , that little bit of structure is what leads people to find each other, not just the randomness. [00:32:41] And I think online we need the similar structure to help people really find value in those breakout room discussions and wanna stay in touch. Everybody wants to find their people. Nobody wants to feel like they're the only one in the room having this challenged problem, identity, whatever it is. So I, I love [00:33:00] breakout rooms for that reason. [00:33:00] I think it provides so much community building. and then you bring them back. And I think an important part of, of breakout rooms is thinking about what kind of debrief. And by default, a lot of times the debrief is just how people use the raised hand feature. Um, or worse, worse than that would be go ahead and unmute if you have anything to say. [00:33:20] I'm like in person. You would never be like, all right folks, just start talking . It's just so weird that we do that online all the time. Um, so I would say alternate between sometimes having people raise their hand, which is self nominat. Sometimes have people write things in chat sometimes, uh, have them write things in chat, but wait to hit enter until you tell them. [00:33:39] I call that a, uh, waterfall debrief. Um, sometimes I have people nominate someone in chat mm-hmm. . So like, who shared a really great win, nominate them and let's, uh, get them to share with all of us. Um, there's just so many ways. To bring lots of voices in, not always the same. Like I'm an outgoing extrovert. [00:33:56] I, Sarah, I will raise my hand, answer a question, not knowing what the question [00:34:00] even was. , like, I'm like, sure. Mm-hmm. . But then you have people like me dominated in conversations the whole time. So the structure allows someone else to grab the mic or to be invited to grab the mic if they choose. [00:34:12] Sarah: Yeah. Thank you. [00:34:13] I'm grabbing the, I'm grabbing the mic. I'm the introvert in the room. . Um, yeah. So many good things. Two, no, I'm just gonna kind of reiterate the main takeaways for me. So first of all, yeah, the clear instructions when you send people into the breakout room and, and also what I really loved is, and what we haven't been doing in my Humane Marketing Circle community is defining ahead of time who goes first. [00:34:43] I think that is a big aha for me to really say. . Yeah. Take away that awkwardness like, you know, do you wanna go first? No, you go first. So it's like, okay. It's already clear who goes first. What my community recently asked me is actually to have two [00:35:00] minutes of reflection before they go into a breakout room so that they can. [00:35:05] Kind of think about because we kind of go deep into the, in, in the breakout rooms. But the other thing I learned right now from you is to, for them to already have my answer, um, so that it, like you said, it's a story, right? So they come in with a story, um, And I love that. One thing you didn't mention, uh, that I'm doing, and you'll tell me what you think about that is. [00:35:30] So I usually, for now, I don't go into the breakout rooms just because I, I don't have another person to help me manage it. So I'm the one sending the messages into the breakout rooms saying, okay, it's time to switch next person, you know. The three or four minutes to talk. Do you use that? Is that a good practice or do you [00:35:50] Robbie: Yeah, so, um, there's a couple things that I didn't, I didn't mention that. [00:35:54] Made me think about. One is there's a, there's a setting when you, there's an option when you set up the breakout [00:36:00] rooms that will put a countdown clock on the top. Right? Right. So it's really helpful to turn that on Uhhuh because then when everyone gets in, they know they have 10 minutes and they know how much time is remaining. [00:36:10] Um, helps 'em divide the time up equally. It helps them. Wrap their conversation up and at the end of that 10 minutes, my recommendation is to change. To be a 15 second countdown clock is default. 60 minutes. 60 seconds. Mm-hmm. But if you're watching the time countdown, and then suddenly you have a minute, there's this moment of almost walk awkward walk. [00:36:29] Awkward is when you say a big goodbye to someone at a restaurant and then discover we're both going in the same direction to your cars . That's. in person, but similarly, like you get to this point where everyone's like, all right, great, see you. Oh, 60 seconds. And then some people leave. Some people are like, oh, I have a whole nother thing. [00:36:47] I think I can squeeze in 60. Like it just, you know. So you're the [00:36:51] Sarah: countdown. It's better to have less time [00:36:53] Robbie: actually. Like Yeah, just get like, okay, we're wrapping up, we're coming back like we had, you got your 10 minutes, [00:37:00] then come back. Or to tell people, I mean, I guess if you wanted 'em to keep the 60 seconds, you can say, It's gonna be, you know, I guess just give people clear instructions. [00:37:08] Yeah. Um, and then, yes, there's a couple of ways to broadcast into the rooms. One is text only, and I, that's like walking by with a sign. Like if you were at an in-person event, you'd be walking by with a sign that said two minutes. You know, and you wouldn't say anything. You would just walk by and try to catch. [00:37:24] Not everyone would see it. You might be holding the sign behind some people's heads. Right. It's a very small font at the top. Then they have broadcast. and that is a lot more jarring if you wanted to use it. I think you need to tell people in advance, um, that you're going to say switch because it's a voice [00:37:42] Sarah: outta nowhere. [00:37:42] I never used it cuz I thought like, that is so odd if all of a sudden [00:37:46] Robbie: they hear my voice. Now, if you only had two people and it was very clearly like, you know, pairing and then switch, I could see cuz again would you in person like ring a bell and call out. Okay folks switch like [00:38:00] if you would. Think about like, yes, it's disruptive. [00:38:04] Now the problem is if you, if you have three people you don't know when they switched, like it's not as exact as science. And then there's also a way to broadcast an image, a video, or um, like a slides, like anything you can put on your screen, you can broadcast that. , um, that would be interesting to do if you had facilitators in the rooms and you wanted everyone to go through this content at the same pace. [00:38:26] You would be advancing the slides based on a certain increment of time. Facilitators would then be sort of taking questions, um, and. You would know that all the rooms were kind of moving through the content at the same pace, at the same amount of time for q and a at the end, and you'd be managing that. [00:38:44] They wouldn't be able to forward it, they wouldn't be able to annotate on it. But it is a way to like share the question. Again, it's disruptive in the sense that suddenly there's this thing on their screen mm-hmm. , um, that's, that's blocking some of them. Although they're, it's funny because the people are gonna be, uh, actually [00:39:00] over here in the image over here if they have a side by side set up. [00:39:03] So, but, um, but generally, yeah, the broadcast messaging, I would say like a two minute warning is usually really useful, like a halfway through two minutes left. But, um, the countdown clock up here is, is really, really helpful for most. . [00:39:17] Sarah: Yeah, I'll start using that. I haven't used that. I didn't know it existed. [00:39:20] And, and so thanks to your checklist, I now know where it is. So, so, um, yeah, we're coming to the end and, and so let's not forget to mention your checklist, but we started with the beginning. We went through the, you know, breakout rooms and all of that. And you said in the design, it's so important to also think. [00:39:40] you know, how are we gonna end this? So what is a good ending? What is, do you use any rituals or, um, yeah. You mentioned pictures, I think in one of the tips as well where you kind of take a screenshot of everybody. What are some good ideas for ending [00:39:56] Robbie: calls? Well, I think a lot of times calls end [00:40:00] with, well, we don't really have any time for anymore questions. [00:40:04] Like, and that's it. So if it's a presentation, I think it's really smart to. like two minutes. The end where you say, you know, oh, okay. Let me just, um, you know, those were great questions. Lemme just share some closing thoughts and then you have like the reiteration of your main point. Not, not new information, but like, it could be a reiteration of your main point. [00:40:26] It could be call to action or here are some next steps, or Here's what's coming up. , but you make sure that the, you know, if you're hosting, you give the mic back to the speaker, you thank them, you let them have two minutes, and then you take it back and say like, thank you. Here's what's happening next. So we just, you wanna think about having kind of a close, um, that isn't just, you know, wa wa we're out of time and, um, and, and gets people thinking about what do they do with this next, I, I like to do something I call calendaring, connecting, collaborating, and I do this both [00:41:00] in person. [00:41:01] as well as online when I design calendaring. Connecting, collaborating. So calendaring is you ask everyone to take a minute to think about one thing they can do in the next two weeks that they will help them move forward on this topic. And you say, great, now that you have that idea, open your calendar on your phone and find a time in the next two weeks that you're gonna be able to do that. [00:41:22] And like, look at your notes from today and. Connecting is if you're not quite sure what to do or you need some help, uh, look around to the people that you've been meeting with today and in breakout rooms and me and other. Here are some other people and resources. These are the people that you can sup, get support from. [00:41:39] Write down their names. Make sure that in those two weeks you also reach out to some of them and say hello and build a connection or deepen a connection. And then collaboration is that we're not doing any of this alone. I'd love to know. What happens next? Um, you know, lean into each other together. We're gonna build great things. [00:41:56] So, you know, this is your community. And I think that [00:42:00] particularly if, if your goal is to move people from inspiration to action, having that kind of ritualistic closure is helpful because, You know, some people will take tons of notes, but it's, it's useless without a plan. And others are just listening and not taking notes and so they, they also don't have a plan. [00:42:17] And so building some time in, and that could be 10 minutes, that could be a, a, you can really draw that out if you wanted to, or it could be something you do kind of quickly. [00:42:26] Sarah: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I love that. And I love that. , you know, we allow ourselves to have time for that. Uh, and that really needs to be planned into the whole Yes. [00:42:37] Uh, meeting. Right. Oftentimes, like you said, you kind of find yourself just rushed at the end and it's just like, [00:42:43] Robbie: okay, bye. Best content is more. Yeah. I think too often we try to cram a lot in, I wrote my first book in order to stop doing two hour programs. Mm-hmm. , like I had been doing this two hour talk for years and years and years, and I thought if I had a book, , I could say, oh, and you [00:43:00] can read more about that in my book and not have to say every single word. [00:43:04] And so similarly today, like we're not, I haven't, I mean, literally, I almost, you know, 20% of the book is on breakout Ri, so we, we scratch the surface of it, but it gets people the information to realize that there is a new way and then they can go investigate and DIY on their own or seek out support if they need it. [00:43:22] But yeah, I, I, there's a lot of. [00:43:25] Sarah: Yeah. And since you said less content is more. Right. I think also, uh, a point you made is like, don't, don't hide behind the slides. Mm-hmm. , especially if, if we're talking about community calls and, and not, you know, some kind of corporate settings. So definitely, yeah. That's one big one for me. [00:43:46] It's like yeah, the, whenever you can show up on the camera and not behind the slide. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Wonderful. Well, please do share, uh, again, the name of your [00:44:00] book and that, uh, p d f that people can download and look at your videos to go and dive deeper. [00:44:07] Robbie: Yeah. So, um, the book is called Break Out of Boredom, low Tech Solutions for Highly Engaging Zoom Events. [00:44:14] Uh, it is gonna be published, uh, later this week. So I'm gonna just tell you if you go to breakout of boredom.com. , um, after March 5th or sixth, the, the link will be live and ready to go. Um, building a huge launch team right now, so reach out. If you're interested in being part of that, I'd love a review and the videos that you're mentioning, it sounds like you've done a good job diving into them. [00:44:38] they're available@robbiesamuels.com slash videos, and they're also some of the bonus content. So the book has a lot of free bonus content and the videos, which are 30. Strategy videos and my no more bad zoom settings checklist. Those are, um, one of, I think 10 or 11 resources that are, um, sort of bonus content [00:45:00] that goes with the book, though, all that's available at the breakout of boredom.com. [00:45:05] Sarah: Wonderful. Thank you so much, Robbie. I always have one last question that I ask all my gifts and that is, what are you grateful for today or [00:45:13] Robbie: this. , my wife , she's amazing. Uh, she actually recently got laid off and wasn't feeling well. And yet, despite both those challenges, has been an incredible support. [00:45:24] I've had a very busy, uh, couple of months getting ready for this book, writing and launching at the same time. Um, and she holds our family together and our house together. And she, when we got married, said, you know, , you have higher earning potential than I do cuz you're entrepreneurial. And I said you may regret them saying that [00:45:44] And here we are. Um, it's true. I I am, I've got a business cuz I had someone who really believed in me and makes space for what I'm trying to create. So it's, you all need to thank her because I've been able to do a lot of good for a lot of people, [00:46:00] uh, because there's someone in my life who believes in, what's her name, Robbie. [00:46:03] Sarah: Her name is. Hi Jess. I hope you're listening to this . Wonderful. Thank you so much for taking the time to to meet here. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. So much you could I info this conversation right? I hope you took some notes. Uh, please find out more about Robbie and his work@robbiesamuels.com. And if you didn't take notes, go over to uh, find his checklist@robbiesamuels.com slash videos for his 30 plus Zoom strategy videos and checklists. [00:46:37] Uh, his podcast where I'll be a guest on soon as well, I is called on the schmooze, and you can find it on the schmooze.com. And his book, uh, again, is called Break Out of Boredom, low Tech Solutions for Highly Engaging Zoom Events. And if you're looking for others who think like you, then why not join us in the Humane Marketing Circle? [00:46:58] Find out more [00:47:00] at humane.marketing/circle. As I mentioned before, we meet twice monthly on Zoom right now, and our calls are definitely non boring and highly engaging because everyone is heard and seen. So again, humane.marketing. Circle. You find the show notes of this episode@humane.marketing slash 60 and 60 episodes. [00:47:27] Wow, I can't believe it. On this beautiful page, you'll also find a series of free offers, such as my Saturday newsletter, the Humane Business Manifesto, and the free gentle confidence mini course, as well as my two books, marketing like we're human and selling like we're human, and. Audiobook fan. Uh, this is just a reminder that marketing like we're human is now also available in audio format on Audible or anywhere else where you get your audiobooks. [00:47:58] Of course, read by [00:48:00] yours. Truly. Thank you so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares for yourself, your clients, and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers, so go be the change you want to see in the. Speak soon.

Today's conversation fits under the P of People If you're a regular here, you know that I'm organizing the conversations around the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. (If you're new here and don't know what I'm talking about you can download your 1page marketing plan with the Humane Marketing version of the 7 Ps of Marketing at humane.marketing/1page. It comes with 7 email prompts to really help you reflect on these different Ps). So, we're talking about the P of people or H of Humans. Only 5 years ago, if I said 'People' you probably pictured a room full of people, or you and your clients or you and your friends going for a walk. Today, in the business context, a lot of the People stuff happens online, on Zoom. I've been working online for many years before the pandemic, so it wasn't a big change for me. I remember putting up a bonus free webinar to help teachers get acquinted with Zoom in the early months of the pandemic. Well, now everyone is Zooming. But not everyone does it well. Just the other week I watched a really quite uncomfortable Zoom call (or a teams call in that case) in a corporate setting where only the manager who was talking was on video, everyone else was hiding behind the screen. When he asked questions, there were long uncomfortable silences. I've myself had to really learn and still learning how facilitate groups on Zoom like our Humane Marketing Circle while giving everyone a chance to speak, and still keep the intimacy in breakout rooms. That's why I'm really excited to be able to learn from today's guest, Robbie Samuels. Robbie has been recognized as a networking expert by NPR, PCMA, Harvard Business Review, Forbes, and Inc, and as an expert in virtual event design by JDC Events. As a virtual event design consultant and executive Zoom producer, he helps organizations bring their events online with less stress and greater participant engagement. He is the author of three books, including his latest, ​​"Break Out of Boredom: Low-Tech Solutions for Highly Engaging Zoom Events." Since 2016, he has hosted the On the Schmooze podcast and, since March 2020, #NoMoreBadZoom Virtual Happy Hour. In today's episode, Robbie and I talk about: How to host virtual events that feel like we're human How to facilitate bigger groups Create valuable breakout rooms How to make sure everyone gets a turn to speak How to create a feeling of community between participants Best practices to make calls engaging and fun And so much more Thanks for listening! After you listen, check out Humane Business Manifesto, an invitation to belong to a movement of people who do business the humane and gentle way and disrupt the current marketing paradigm. You can download it for free at this page. There's no opt-in. Just an instant download. Are you enjoying the podcast? The Humane Marketing show is listener-supported—I'd love for you to become an active supporter of the show and join the Humane Marketing Circle. You will be invited to a private monthly Q&A call with me and fellow Humane Marketers - a safe zone to hang out with like-minded conscious entrepreneurs and help each other build our business and grow our impact. — I'd love for you to join us! Learn more at humane.marketing/circle Don't forget to subscribe to the show on iTunes or on Android to get notified for all my future shows and why not sign up for my weekly(ish) "Sarah Suggests Saturdays", a round-up of best practices, tools I use, books I read, podcasts, and other resources. Raise your hand and join the Humane Business Revolution. Warmly, Sarah Imperfect Transcript of the show We use and love Descript to edit our podcast and provide this free transcript of the episode. And yes, that's an affiliate link. Ep 160 Ep 160 [00:00:00] Sarah: Hello, humane marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non-pushy. [00:00:23] I'm Sarah z Croce, your hippie turn business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact by. Mama Bear of the Humane Marketing Circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you are ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like-minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency. [00:00:52] Works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like-minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a Zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business. [00:01:15] Sustainable way we share with transparency and vulnerability, what works for us and what doesn't work, so that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane.marketing/circle, and if you prefer one-on-one support from me. [00:01:37] My humane business Coaching could be just what you need, whether it's for your marketing, sales, general, business building, or help. Idea like writing a book. I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. [00:01:58] If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one-on-one client can find out more@humane.marketing slash. And finally, if you are a Marketing Impact pioneer and would like to bring Humane Marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website@humane.marketing. [00:02:33] Hi, friends. Welcome back. Today's conversation fits under the P of people. If you're a regular here, you know that I'm appreciating you and that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven Ps. Of the Humane Marketing Mandala, and if you're new here, I appreciate you just as much, and maybe you don't know what I'm talking about, but you can download your one page marketing plan with the [00:03:00] humane marketing version of the seven Ps of marketing@humane.marketing slash. [00:03:06] One page, the number one, then the word page, and this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different Ps and kind of question all your assumptions around them. So we're talking about the P of people or the. Age of humans today, and you know, only five years ago if I said people, you probably pictured their room full of people or you and your clients, or you and your friends going for a walk. [00:03:38] But today, in the business context, a lot of the people stuff happens online on Zoom right now, I've been working online for many. Before the pandemic, so it wasn't a big change for me, but I remember putting up a bonus free webinar to help teachers get acquainted with Zoom in the early months of the pandemic because [00:04:00] none of the teachers knew how to use Zoom. [00:04:02] Of course. So everyone is zooming today, but not everyone does it well. Um, just the other week I watched a really quite uncomfortable zoom call or a teams call in that case, in a corporate setting where. Only the manager who was talking was on video, and everyone else was kind of hiding behind the screen. [00:04:25] And when he asked questions, there were like these long, uncomfortable silences and nobody answered. Not saying that silence is bad, silence is good, but in this case, if everybody's hidden behind their camera, then the poor manager obviously doesn't know what they're doing if they're even still there. So anyway. [00:04:46] Had to really learn, and I'm still learning myself how to facilitate groups on Zoom, like the ones in our humane marketing circle, while giving everyone a chance to speak [00:05:00] and still keep the intimacy in breakout rooms. So, yeah, I learned a lot over the last two years and that's why I'm super excited to be able to learn even more from today's guest, Robbie Samuels. [00:05:14] Robbie is a recognized networking expert and an expert in virtual event design. As a virtual event design consultant and executive Zoom producer, he helps organizations bring their events online with less stress and greater per participant engagement. He's the author of three books, including his latest. [00:05:36] Break out of boredom, low tech solutions for highly engaging Zoom events. Since 2016, he has hosted the Amish Schmooze Podcast and since March, 2020, the no more bad Zoom virtual happy hour. . So in this episode with Robbie, we talked about how to host virtual events that feel like we're [00:06:00] human, how to facilitate bigger groups, how to create valuable breakout rooms, how to make sure everyone gets a turn to speak, how to create a feeling of community between participants. [00:06:14] Best practices to make calls engaging and fun and so much more. As you will probably be able to tell, I really took this kind of like a, a mini coaching session for myself, and again, we're really applying this in our humane marketing circle. It's intimate, it's engaging everybody. Uh, turn or a chance to speak. [00:06:39] So if that's something you are curious about, do have a look at humane.marketing/circle. It's our community of humane marketers or entrepreneurs who want to market their business their way. We meet twice per month in an online setting. Right now it's Zoom, but [00:07:00] we'll actually change over to our own private live room on k. [00:07:05] Have a look at the details at humane.marketing/circle. And with that, let's welcome Robbie. Hey Robbie. So good to see you speak to you today. Yeah, thanks for having me here. Yeah, I'm excited. Uh, it's one of those topics, right, that five years ago we probably wouldn't be sitting on a call together, or at least not for that. [00:07:29] Probably more for networking, uh, because that's, that was your thing in the past or probably still is, but, but yeah, you kind of pivoted with the, with the pandemic and all. But yeah, I, I kind of. Dove right into it. So welcome to the Humane Marketing Podcast. I love you. You, I love to have you here. Why don't you take us a little bit into the past, but not too much, because we really wanna talk about, you know, zoom calls, group calls, [00:08:00] facilitation online, and all of that, which is the topic of your latest book as well. [00:08:05] So take us a little bit to the past and then to, to the. [00:08:09] Robbie: Well, Sarah, um, I spent over 10 years before the pandemic working to be recognized as a networking expert with a focus on networking at conferences, and that included writing a, my first book, launching a podcast. , um, creating a group coaching program, writing for Howard Business Review, doing a TEDx talk. [00:08:28] I was poised to be an overnight success 10 years in the making. Uh, my TEDx talk came out January, 2020, and by March, 2020 nobody cared. , it was sort of a, uh, not a very relevant topic to be an expert in around in-person networking because all in-person conferences and events really, Vanished. So I was trying to figure out how to show up and add value, and I wrote nine Ways to Network in a Pandemic as a, as a blog post on March 12th, 2020. [00:08:57] And one of those ways was to host [00:09:00] a virtual happy hour, which I did on March 13th. Unbeknownst to me that really launched a whole new thriving six figure business, uh, with all kinds of new revenue streams and really impacted a lot of other people's. I mean, it impacted my life, but the ripple effect is, has been extraordinary. [00:09:17] And by the end of the year, I was supporting organizations of bringing their events online with less stress and greater participant engagement. And as you mentioned, I am about to release on the three anniversary of that first virtual Happy hour, my third book, which is Break Out of Boredom, low Tech Solutions for Highly Engaging Zoom Event. [00:09:37] Sarah: Wonderful. Wow, what a comeback. Kudos to you. It must have been quite a dark night of the soul. I, I imagine that just kind of like realizing, oh my God, now what? [00:09:49] Robbie: Well, I mean, I, I accepted what was happening on March 9th because I had been paying attention to the news and mm-hmm. sort of was watching this come starting. [00:09:57] You saw this probably in January, just kinda like, [00:10:00] yeah. I was watching it kind of, kind of encroach our, our shores mm-hmm. and get closer and closer, so, I think I came to terms with it, uh, but I didn't know what to do next, and I don't like feeling that, I mean, I, I'm a person of action, so that feeling of being stuck. [00:10:14] But I was very fortunate because on uh, that Wednesday of that week, which is the 11th, I met with my peer mastermind and they gave me a kick in the pants and said, you don't think of networking as something that only happens in person. You have been building a global network for five years, virtually. [00:10:31] Why don't you go help people? And that got me outta my own way, and that's what led me to. Um, basically that night I started working on the nine ways list and, uh, published it the next day it got, you know, a good response cause it was very timely and I said, okay, I need to do one of these things. And I just looked at the list and it was 8:00 PM on a Thursday night , which is why the event is held five o'clock on a Friday cuz it was the next open spot that I could imagine calling a happy [00:11:00] hour. [00:11:00] And I didn't intend it to be a global network. A global event, but 36 countries have been represented amongst the members. Nice. Who attended I, and I'm still hosting it. Right? I'm still hosting that event. No more bad. zoom.com. Three years later. [00:11:13] Sarah: Wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's really it. It kind of demonstrates this idea of that you are not. [00:11:21] You know, you're, you're not kind of pushed into a niche, and that's where you are stuck for the rest of your life. There's a common thread to your message, right? And whether it is networking in person or now networking online and doing online meetings, Your concept or your approach to it is still the same? [00:11:41] Uh, it reminds me of my dark night of the soul where I got, you know, into a trademark mess where someone, um, was basically blocking me of using gentle marketing, which was the term I used before. And for like about two weeks, I was stuck a bit longer, Robbie, for about two weeks. I was like, well, now what? [00:11:59] [00:12:00] You know, how, how do I get out of this? And everything, everything I built, the books I published and, and two years of work and all of that. But then I realized, people told me as well, it's, well, it's not about a word. You know, you still have the community, you still have the concept, and, and so it's just mm-hmm. [00:12:17] It's great to hear those stories, I think. Right. For listeners as well to realize, well, you know, you can rebound. and, and start something new and it's still gonna be you and it's still giving you your approach, but, you know, just slightly different topic. So, so yeah, let's talk about this slightly different topic because, uh, as you, I think, uh, in one of the videos I watched from you, you said, you know, at the beginning you didn't even know you had breakout rooms, came with your free Zoom account. [00:12:48] And so yeah, that's how we all felt at the beginning of the pandemic. Been working online for years and years. So I knew Zoom, but it's true that a lot of people had like no idea [00:13:00] how to, you know, for me as well, breakout rooms was not a thing that I was using. So nowadays obviously everybody is zooming or, or teams or whatever they're using. [00:13:10] So how do you s how have you seen this evolve? Like what would you say in general? is the kind of the state of the online meetings now. Mm-hmm. . Do most people use them to their advantage and you know that it's really great. All these Zoom meetings we have, or do you hear kind of the opposite? [00:13:33] Robbie: Well, just to go back to your earlier point, the through line for me is that events are about content and connection. [00:13:39] Right. People were leaving their house and getting on planes to travel to conferences, not just for the information they would learn, but for the people they would meet. Right. And so when events became synonymous with the virtual events, I knew we needed to figure out a way to make that possible virtually. [00:13:57] Now, prior to the pandemic, An [00:14:00] online program, which was typically a webinar platform where you couldn't see participants and participants couldn't see each other. Right. It was 45 minutes of death by PowerPoint, followed by ineffectual Q and A on moderating chat . Oh God. Yeah. So I think we've come a long way in what our expectations are, but I also think it depends on the industry. [00:14:19] Because I still know, you know, I've, I've been invited to do some programming virtually for the employee resource group of like a bank or a law firm or financial sector. And like, they tend to be blown away by what I'm doing because they're using it in a very, Minimalist approach to how they use whatever platform they're using. [00:14:42] They're just like turning on their camera and that's it. And [00:14:46] Sarah: if that, because I've assisted to some of the meetings my husband has to kind of survive through and yeah, nobody is on camera like. . [00:14:55] Robbie: That's just it. So, so I think that it really is a range. I can't answer like one way, but I [00:15:00] also don't focus personally on corporate space or the workforce. [00:15:03] Mm-hmm. , I'm my book and my approach is really focusing on the presenters who have between 60 and 90 minutes to offer value to a one-time audience. now, and a lot of this can be therefore applied if you are teaching, uh, a course or a class, this is, you know, or even like a, a weekly team meeting, you can apply a lot of this to that. [00:15:25] But I think there's, there's a few more restrictions. So, for instance, I don't recommend using third party. Tools like Mentee Meter and Jamboard, which I love. But if you only have 60, 75, 90 minutes, you might lose people because if they don't, if they're not familiar and you don't know if they're familiar cuz you don't know the audience super well, you might lose them. [00:15:45] And, and if, if it's about engagement, you're gonna get 70 to 90% of people to responding to a Zoom poll. And you might get 30 to 50% actually answering. , one of these third party polls. Mm-hmm. . And so [00:16:00] yes, it's fancy, yes, it's cool , but if the end result is fewer people actually taking action and people feeling a little bit confused about something, that's not where we want people to be. [00:16:11] So I also, I really focus a lot in the book and in the work that I do on some principles around purpose first design and also quality facilitation. So I'm, I'm specifically focusing on the Zoom. As far as the technology, but those other pieces around facilitation and purpose first design are applicable to any medium, including in person. [00:16:36] Mm-hmm. . So I think there's a strong Venn diagram because I also do in-person event design consulting, and I've been doing that a long time. And then back to doing that again now that people are backed in person. So to me there's a big overlap. How you design an in-person workshop or presentation for 90 minutes and online, but then there's the outliers that you have to consider for both. [00:16:58] So I think that there's a lot of [00:17:00] potential. I've done incredible programming. I've got some great stories in the book about some really cool outcomes we've achieved by bringing people together across geographies to have really in depth conversations about important topics. . I also think that people's tolerance for the sort of boring approach, , is they really don't have any, like, I think people are zoomed out and zoom fatigue. [00:17:24] That's why I call it breakout of boredom. And, and by, by the way, breakout rooms, I went from not knowing I had access to, you know, , I dunno, my book's like 60 some odd thousand words and like 10,000 words. Almost 20% is about breakout rooms. So, [00:17:40] Sarah: yeah. So let's go there. Um, I, I wanna really have you walk us through kind of some of these, you know, yes, they're technicalities, but I think the way you explain them is always comes back to purpose. [00:17:54] You know, like what is. , what's the common [00:18:00] purpose for, uh, us to be on this call? That's how I understood it, um, when I went through this checklist that you'll share with us at the end. So let's start with the waiting room, right? Um, that's usually our first experience when we go on to a Zoom meeting. So how, if we are, if my listeners are hosting a group, uh, zoom. [00:18:24] what are some of the things that can be done? Let's just take Zoom as an example, can be done to already kind of give people this feeling of I belong, or this is, I'm a, I'm on in the right group here. Sure. Like what [00:18:39] Robbie: can we do? Well, for starters, if you're having a group meeting, stop using your personal meeting room because, uh, you, if you write, if you create a meeting, a specific meeting for. [00:18:53] Group, then the name of that meeting will be what appears in the waiting room. Um, so that'll assure people. But you can [00:19:00] also have different settings. So if you use a different link, you could set it so that participants are muted upon entry. Mm-hmm. . Now for why one-on-one calls, I do use my personal meeting ID and I don't mute people because if it's just two of us, I, I don't need you to be muted. [00:19:18] It's actually kind of an inconvenience for you to be. Right, because people start talking and I have to point out to them like, don't forget to unmute . Yeah, the usual, you're muted . Yeah. So then the other thing I would say for waiting rooms, you can customize it beyond that. And there's a bunch of different options. [00:19:33] A lot of what I'm gonna be sharing is under zoom.us, and then you go to settings, which is on the left side menu, and you can just start from the top. And actually really close to the top is waiting rooms. So there's some really cool customi customization, uh, including you can embed a video, you can put an image, you can put text. [00:19:50] Um, I sometimes have texts just says, , take a breath. You know, like, yeah. Take a, take a moment to yourself. Mm-hmm. before you come in. Yeah. But you need [00:20:00] to know that whatever you put for your customization will be what people see for all of your meetings. For that one account. So Okay. If you make a special video for like a big event you're doing, you have to then remember, put a note on your calendar to switch it back to whatever. [00:20:14] You're more general, so you can [00:20:16] Sarah: customized each waiting room separately for each meeting. It's just one you [00:20:21] Robbie: can, but you'd have to like keep going back in and remembering to switch it on and off. Right. [00:20:25] Sarah: Okay. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Okay, great. So, uh, one question. Can people chat already in the waiting room? [00:20:33] I don't think so. Right. [00:20:35] Robbie: Uh, they can't, uh, right now the host can communicate with people in the waiting room. Uh, and I think that they're gonna come out with a feature where the waiting room can then respond back to the host individually. Okay. Um, they, you cannot change your name, for instance, in the waiting. [00:20:53] but the host can change your name. So there's some new features that are coming out. Okay. Um, but I also wanna go back to, [00:21:00] you mentioned purpose first design, and I, I address it as well. So I want you to think about, as people are coming into your session, they're going to be thinking, feeling, and you're doing. [00:21:11] one thing. At the end of their time together, they're gonna be thinking, feeling, and or doing something else. And then in between is the transformation, right? So if you really spend some time thinking about where they're starting and where you want them to end up, that will help you decide. The structure flow, what exercises, what kind of content, how much time to spend on things, what to put in the waiting room, whether or not to have a breakout room. [00:21:38] If so, what kind of question? What kind of, what is the goal of, even for a breakout room, like what's the purpose of a breakout room? Is it around networking? Is it for them to discuss something? Is it for them to share? Is for them to feel like they belong. Like once you understand the sort of really primary focus of each piece of it and how it fits in with that overall goal, it's gonna help you design a much better [00:22:00] quality experience for your participants. [00:22:02] So that's the purpose first design piece. And then the facilitation is just to stop confusing people by saying the incorrect thing. Like go ahead and raise your hand in chat. Never been a raised hand button in chat. I've heard that phrase a lot. Or pointing down and like pointing, uh, pointing here and saying, go to reactions when that's not where it is. [00:22:28] Reactions on your side is on he over here. So if I, if I go to tell you like, um, oh, go ahead and go ahead and, uh, go to the top right of your screen and click. I'm not pointing at the right side of your screen. . This is the right side of your screen. So that's cold mirroring . Mm-hmm. And if you were on a stage physically, you would, you would know that, right? [00:22:51] Like you would know that if you pointed to your left, they're gonna see it on the right. But when we're doing this virtually, people kind of forgot all about that. So that just [00:23:00] hurts our brains. It makes our brains work a little extra hard. And that's part of that zoom fatigue is confusing instructions. [00:23:07] Um, The person who spends a lot of time saying, um, all right, let's see. I'm gonna try to share my slides. Let's see. Oh, the file's not open. And then they like, share their desktop. And you watch them like go through everything on their desktop. You're like, uhhuh, as they like narrate every step. That's, we can all get 5% better every time we zoom. [00:23:30] Yeah. Whether we're participating, whether we're hosting, whether we're speaking. Just aim to get that little bit better. . [00:23:37] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. There's so many small details that we need to learn, right? That, that now it's this extra layer. And actually in some of the videos you, you mentioned it's really helpful to a first, have an extra, um, screen that you can, you know, have one just dedicated screen for your PowerPoint presentation, for example. [00:23:58] Mm-hmm. , uh, [00:24:00] and even, uh, an extra person, like someone who helps you, you know, read through their questions in a q and a setting, or, yeah, just like there's so many things that we have to manage that, or we haven't even started talking about breakout rooms. But yeah, there's a lot of things going on that it, it really is sometimes helpful to have a, an extra person. [00:24:22] Robbie: Mm-hmm. , I think if, um, if you have more than 20 people, , I think it's, it starts to be a, for most people, that's where it makes sense to start thinking about having a second person. Right. But that second person, um, could be like a fellow. Uh, I, I know for instance, I know speakers who sh who support each other. [00:24:42] Right. Will they take turns? Like one will moderate chat for one person's program and then the other one will go back and moderate chat for the other person's program? Yeah. Awesome. You can train an assistant or, uh, an. or you know, a VA or even a member of your community to manage chat and manage the q and a [00:25:00] and manage, you know, all of that. [00:25:01] So yeah, it, it, it, and then, but it scales up because, you know, I, I train people on to be Zoom producers, and so Zoom producer would do all the tech, not just the chat. They would handle any technical issues that. You know, community has getting in, getting their sound to work. And then they would also, uh, manage breakout rooms and sharing slides if you need them to, any, anything needed. [00:25:27] Uh, as well as managing chat. And then there's the executive sort of, uh, event design, virtual event design that I do where I'm really providing the strategy ahead of time, training the speakers and how to look good, all that stuff. So it, there's layer. . But I would say starting with having a. Understanding of what does a good Q and A even look like? [00:25:50] Mm-hmm. , and then what kind of support you might need to pull that off. If you've only got six or seven people in a room, I think you're, you're fine on your own. Fine. Yeah. But you still have to know that [00:26:00] while I'm doing my best to look at the camera, there's something happening in chat. So I have sort of techniques where I ask people to write their question and chat, but to write the word question in all caps before their question. [00:26:13] So I'm more likely to. To see it. I also increase the font size by to 150% of the original font size in chat, which makes it a lot easier to catch when things are happening, um, off to side. So these are all little things that over time one thing becomes easier. Then you add on something else. So I'm not saying everyone has to do everything all at once. [00:26:36] That's the 5% part. Um, so I actually have a, a program called The 5% Advantage, and it's the, I launched it in May of 2020 and um, my wife was like, why would anyone wanna get 5% better ? And I said, no, no, every time it's about like continual improvement. , it's, it, it's amazing, like how much faster you will improve if you aim to just [00:27:00] keep getting a little bit better each time. [00:27:03] Sarah: I like that. Um, I do wanna ask you about breakout rooms cuz that's I think one of the things that Yeah, a lot of, uh, these. Programs, um, now include right now that we've gotten used to being on camera on Zoom, where it's not just like a webinar style anymore. And so one of the things you mentioned, um, is this idea of having clear instructions and, and I think I. [00:27:28] Really, I probably get better 5% every time I do it, but it's true that it's so essential to give clear instructions before sending people off into breakout rooms. Cuz you, you explained, you know the situation where people find themselves in the breakout room and they're like, Uh, anyone know what we have to do? [00:27:48] And, you know, they just start chatting about who they are and, and all of that. So, what's kind of like best practices about giving clear instructions, uh, for these breakout [00:27:58] Robbie: rooms? So start back [00:28:00] with the purpose first design. What is the goal of the session? The, the breakout part of this session? Um, if it's a quick icebreaker, then you can do either two people for five minutes or three for six. [00:28:11] If you can open more. I don't know, 10, 15 rooms. I would say three for. minutes is better cuz it's less likely that someone's gonna get stuck in a room by themself because of the internet. Um, failing one person. Um, but that would be like a quick icebreaker question. So they're just, they're literally just going around for a moment to say hello to each other. [00:28:30] Uh, you might do three or four people for 10 minutes. To similarities, how people go around and answer a question. Um, each person gets a couple of minutes and then that goes all the way up to, you know, a discussion where people might get, you know, it might be five or six people for 15 minutes where people really all answer a quick question, but then they dive into. [00:28:49] thoughts about that question a little bit more. So what happens is that if you just sort of throw people in a room without any clear question, uh, someone will [00:29:00] eventually unmute. Like at first they're all gonna like, look at each other. Like, what do we do here? The person who's most comfortable, um, most privileged , uh, probably has been around this community the longest is, is gonna be the one who unmutes and they may not relinquish the microphone and it might become just a. [00:29:19] A whole session of one person talking and now you're in the main room and you're like, awesome People are engaged. They're having so much fun. But that's, that's like checkbox engagement. Like in reality, one person had the mic for the whole time. So what I wanted to say is intentional engagement is that we provide not only a question that is specific, one question, not lots, don't ask the choose from three and all that, but you also provide an answer. [00:29:46] So you say, , you know, what's your biggest win of the week? Here's mine to get you thinking. Here's mine that you then put the question that you just said as the prompt in chat, and you say, if you need [00:30:00] to, you can open up chat and see the question. And let's go alphabetically. Let's go alphabetically by last name. [00:30:07] So if your last name's closest to a, you'll go first. We'll go in that order. And if you don't have a last name showing, go ahead and add it. Or you're going first. Hmm. And that way they get in their brains have already been thinking about the question. , when you tell your answer, you're sharing a story and stories ignite stories in other people's brains. [00:30:27] Mm-hmm. . So when I tell you my big win of the week, you start thinking about, well, what's my big win of the week? Mm-hmm. . So you're already a little bit primed to participate, and then you find out the order and you realize. . Ooh, there's a good chance I'm gonna be going first. , like my last name's close to a, and you're like, oh. [00:30:43] So you really are mentally repaired to unmute and jump in. Now some people get kind of cutesy about the order and they do like longest and short hair or colors of shirts or birthdays. All of those are kind of distracting. Take some time to discuss. [00:31:00] Leading. I mean I've been in so many sessions like that, that we end up talking about horoscopes cuz we were asked to like go in the order of our birthdays, right? [00:31:09] So I generally, I say like alphabetical or, or reverse alphabetical by, um, first name or last name. And if you really think a particular order would be helpful, for instance, maybe people for most experience at least experience with something you can say when you get into the breakout rooms, go to chat and put in the. [00:31:27] Of years you have with this, and we'll use that to organize, you know, most experienced, at least experience. But, um, but all that structure is actually, um, it helps people feel like they belong. And I actually think that thoughtful structure is about inclusion. It's about people feeling not just invited, but welcomed into a conversation. [00:31:49] It tells shy people and introverted people and newcomer. and people who maybe you speak a language that's different than the dominant language being used, it tells [00:32:00] them exactly what the rules are. There's no like in crowd knows how to ask questions or how to unmute. Everybody knows everything. So I think we, we, um, we as hosts and facilitators sometime like relinquish our role by saying, you all figure it out, but just like an in-person event, like people thrown together at a bar. [00:32:24] Often find the people they wanna meet. But when you structure an event at a bar and you've got name tags and people who are welcoming, you've got activities, you have people in, you know, interacting and engaging with each other. , that little bit of structure is what leads people to find each other, not just the randomness. [00:32:41] And I think online we need the similar structure to help people really find value in those breakout room discussions and wanna stay in touch. Everybody wants to find their people. Nobody wants to feel like they're the only one in the room having this challenged problem, identity, whatever it is. So I, I love [00:33:00] breakout rooms for that reason. [00:33:00] I think it provides so much community building. and then you bring them back. And I think an important part of, of breakout rooms is thinking about what kind of debrief. And by default, a lot of times the debrief is just how people use the raised hand feature. Um, or worse, worse than that would be go ahead and unmute if you have anything to say. [00:33:20] I'm like in person. You would never be like, all right folks, just start talking . It's just so weird that we do that online all the time. Um, so I would say alternate between sometimes having people raise their hand, which is self nominat. Sometimes have people write things in chat sometimes, uh, have them write things in chat, but wait to hit enter until you tell them. [00:33:39] I call that a, uh, waterfall debrief. Um, sometimes I have people nominate someone in chat mm-hmm. . So like, who shared a really great win, nominate them and let's, uh, get them to share with all of us. Um, there's just so many ways. To bring lots of voices in, not always the same. Like I'm an outgoing extrovert. [00:33:56] I, Sarah, I will raise my hand, answer a question, not knowing what the question [00:34:00] even was. , like, I'm like, sure. Mm-hmm. . But then you have people like me dominated in conversations the whole time. So the structure allows someone else to grab the mic or to be invited to grab the mic if they choose. [00:34:12] Sarah: Yeah. Thank you. [00:34:13] I'm grabbing the, I'm grabbing the mic. I'm the introvert in the room. . Um, yeah. So many good things. Two, no, I'm just gonna kind of reiterate the main takeaways for me. So first of all, yeah, the clear instructions when you send people into the breakout room and, and also what I really loved is, and what we haven't been doing in my Humane Marketing Circle community is defining ahead of time who goes first. [00:34:43] I think that is a big aha for me to really say. . Yeah. Take away that awkwardness like, you know, do you wanna go first? No, you go first. So it's like, okay. It's already clear who goes first. What my community recently asked me is actually to have two [00:35:00] minutes of reflection before they go into a breakout room so that they can. [00:35:05] Kind of think about because we kind of go deep into the, in, in the breakout rooms. But the other thing I learned right now from you is to, for them to already have my answer, um, so that it, like you said, it's a story, right? So they come in with a story, um, And I love that. One thing you didn't mention, uh, that I'm doing, and you'll tell me what you think about that is. [00:35:30] So I usually, for now, I don't go into the breakout rooms just because I, I don't have another person to help me manage it. So I'm the one sending the messages into the breakout rooms saying, okay, it's time to switch next person, you know. The three or four minutes to talk. Do you use that? Is that a good practice or do you [00:35:50] Robbie: Yeah, so, um, there's a couple things that I didn't, I didn't mention that. [00:35:54] Made me think about. One is there's a, there's a setting when you, there's an option when you set up the breakout [00:36:00] rooms that will put a countdown clock on the top. Right? Right. So it's really helpful to turn that on Uhhuh because then when everyone gets in, they know they have 10 minutes and they know how much time is remaining. [00:36:10] Um, helps 'em divide the time up equally. It helps them. Wrap their conversation up and at the end of that 10 minutes, my recommendation is to change. To be a 15 second countdown clock is default. 60 minutes. 60 seconds. Mm-hmm. But if you're watching the time countdown, and then suddenly you have a minute, there's this moment of almost walk awkward walk. [00:36:29] Awkward is when you say a big goodbye to someone at a restaurant and then discover we're both going in the same direction to your cars . That's. in person, but similarly, like you get to this point where everyone's like, all right, great, see you. Oh, 60 seconds. And then some people leave. Some people are like, oh, I have a whole nother thing. [00:36:47] I think I can squeeze in 60. Like it just, you know. So you're the [00:36:51] Sarah: countdown. It's better to have less time [00:36:53] Robbie: actually. Like Yeah, just get like, okay, we're wrapping up, we're coming back like we had, you got your 10 minutes, [00:37:00] then come back. Or to tell people, I mean, I guess if you wanted 'em to keep the 60 seconds, you can say, It's gonna be, you know, I guess just give people clear instructions. [00:37:08] Yeah. Um, and then, yes, there's a couple of ways to broadcast into the rooms. One is text only, and I, that's like walking by with a sign. Like if you were at an in-person event, you'd be walking by with a sign that said two minutes. You know, and you wouldn't say anything. You would just walk by and try to catch. [00:37:24] Not everyone would see it. You might be holding the sign behind some people's heads. Right. It's a very small font at the top. Then they have broadcast. and that is a lot more jarring if you wanted to use it. I think you need to tell people in advance, um, that you're going to say switch because it's a voice [00:37:42] Sarah: outta nowhere. [00:37:42] I never used it cuz I thought like, that is so odd if all of a sudden [00:37:46] Robbie: they hear my voice. Now, if you only had two people and it was very clearly like, you know, pairing and then switch, I could see cuz again would you in person like ring a bell and call out. Okay folks switch like [00:38:00] if you would. Think about like, yes, it's disruptive. [00:38:04] Now the problem is if you, if you have three people you don't know when they switched, like it's not as exact as science. And then there's also a way to broadcast an image, a video, or um, like a slides, like anything you can put on your screen, you can broadcast that. , um, that would be interesting to do if you had facilitators in the rooms and you wanted everyone to go through this content at the same pace. [00:38:26] You would be advancing the slides based on a certain increment of time. Facilitators would then be sort of taking questions, um, and. You would know that all the rooms were kind of moving through the content at the same pace, at the same amount of time for q and a at the end, and you'd be managing that. [00:38:44] They wouldn't be able to forward it, they wouldn't be able to annotate on it. But it is a way to like share the question. Again, it's disruptive in the sense that suddenly there's this thing on their screen mm-hmm. , um, that's, that's blocking some of them. Although they're, it's funny because the people are gonna be, uh, actually [00:39:00] over here in the image over here if they have a side by side set up. [00:39:03] So, but, um, but generally, yeah, the broadcast messaging, I would say like a two minute warning is usually really useful, like a halfway through two minutes left. But, um, the countdown clock up here is, is really, really helpful for most. . [00:39:17] Sarah: Yeah, I'll start using that. I haven't used that. I didn't know it existed. [00:39:20] And, and so thanks to your checklist, I now know where it is. So, so, um, yeah, we're coming to the end and, and so let's not forget to mention your checklist, but we started with the beginning. We went through the, you know, breakout rooms and all of that. And you said in the design, it's so important to also think. [00:39:40] you know, how are we gonna end this? So what is a good ending? What is, do you use any rituals or, um, yeah. You mentioned pictures, I think in one of the tips as well where you kind of take a screenshot of everybody. What are some good ideas for ending [00:39:56] Robbie: calls? Well, I think a lot of times calls end [00:40:00] with, well, we don't really have any time for anymore questions. [00:40:04] Like, and that's it. So if it's a presentation, I think it's really smart to. like two minutes. The end where you say, you know, oh, okay. Let me just, um, you know, those were great questions. Lemme just share some closing thoughts and then you have like the reiteration of your main point. Not, not new information, but like, it could be a reiteration of your main point. [00:40:26] It could be call to action or here are some next steps, or Here's what's coming up. , but you make sure that the, you know, if you're hosting, you give the mic back to the speaker, you thank them, you let them have two minutes, and then you take it back and say like, thank you. Here's what's happening next. So we just, you wanna think about having kind of a close, um, that isn't just, you know, wa wa we're out of time and, um, and, and gets people thinking about what do they do with this next, I, I like to do something I call calendaring, connecting, collaborating, and I do this both [00:41:00] in person. [00:41:01] as well as online when I design calendaring. Connecting, collaborating. So calendaring is you ask everyone to take a minute to think about one thing they can do in the next two weeks that they will help them move forward on this topic. And you say, great, now that you have that idea, open your calendar on your phone and find a time in the next two weeks that you're gonna be able to do that. [00:41:22] And like, look at your notes from today and. Connecting is if you're not quite sure what to do or you need some help, uh, look around to the people that you've been meeting with today and in breakout rooms and me and other. Here are some other people and resources. These are the people that you can sup, get support from. [00:41:39] Write down their names. Make sure that in those two weeks you also reach out to some of them and say hello and build a connection or deepen a connection. And then collaboration is that we're not doing any of this alone. I'd love to know. What happens next? Um, you know, lean into each other together. We're gonna build great things. [00:41:56] So, you know, this is your community. And I think that [00:42:00] particularly if, if your goal is to move people from inspiration to action, having that kind of ritualistic closure is helpful because, You know, some people will take tons of notes, but it's, it's useless without a plan. And others are just listening and not taking notes and so they, they also don't have a plan. [00:42:17] And so building some time in, and that could be 10 minutes, that could be a, a, you can really draw that out if you wanted to, or it could be something you do kind of quickly. [00:42:26] Sarah: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I love that. And I love that. , you know, we allow ourselves to have time for that. Uh, and that really needs to be planned into the whole Yes. [00:42:37] Uh, meeting. Right. Oftentimes, like you said, you kind of find yourself just rushed at the end and it's just like, [00:42:43] Robbie: okay, bye. Best content is more. Yeah. I think too often we try to cram a lot in, I wrote my first book in order to stop doing two hour programs. Mm-hmm. , like I had been doing this two hour talk for years and years and years, and I thought if I had a book, , I could say, oh, and you [00:43:00] can read more about that in my book and not have to say every single word. [00:43:04] And so similarly today, like we're not, I haven't, I mean, literally, I almost, you know, 20% of the book is on breakout Ri, so we, we scratch the surface of it, but it gets people the information to realize that there is a new way and then they can go investigate and DIY on their own or seek out support if they need it. [00:43:22] But yeah, I, I, there's a lot of. [00:43:25] Sarah: Yeah. And since you said less content is more. Right. I think also, uh, a point you made is like, don't, don't hide behind the slides. Mm-hmm. , especially if, if we're talking about community calls and, and not, you know, some kind of corporate settings. So definitely, yeah. That's one big one for me. [00:43:46] It's like yeah, the, whenever you can show up on the camera and not behind the slide. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Wonderful. Well, please do share, uh, again, the name of your [00:44:00] book and that, uh, p d f that people can download and look at your videos to go and dive deeper. [00:44:07] Robbie: Yeah. So, um, the book is called Break Out of Boredom, low Tech Solutions for Highly Engaging Zoom Events. [00:44:14] Uh, it is gonna be published, uh, later this week. So I'm gonna just tell you if you go to breakout of boredom.com. , um, after March 5th or sixth, the, the link will be live and ready to go. Um, building a huge launch team right now, so reach out. If you're interested in being part of that, I'd love a review and the videos that you're mentioning, it sounds like you've done a good job diving into them. [00:44:38] they're available@robbiesamuels.com slash videos, and they're also some of the bonus content. So the book has a lot of free bonus content and the videos, which are 30. Strategy videos and my no more bad zoom settings checklist. Those are, um, one of, I think 10 or 11 resources that are, um, sort of bonus content [00:45:00] that goes with the book, though, all that's available at the breakout of boredom.com. [00:45:05] Sarah: Wonderful. Thank you so much, Robbie. I always have one last question that I ask all my gifts and that is, what are you grateful for today or [00:45:13] Robbie: this. , my wife , she's amazing. Uh, she actually recently got laid off and wasn't feeling well. And yet, despite both those challenges, has been an incredible support. [00:45:24] I've had a very busy, uh, couple of months getting ready for this book, writing and launching at the same time. Um, and she holds our family together and our house together. And she, when we got married, said, you know, , you have higher earning potential than I do cuz you're entrepreneurial. And I said you may regret them saying that [00:45:44] And here we are. Um, it's true. I I am, I've got a business cuz I had someone who really believed in me and makes space for what I'm trying to create. So it's, you all need to thank her because I've been able to do a lot of good for a lot of people, [00:46:00] uh, because there's someone in my life who believes in, what's her name, Robbie. [00:46:03] Sarah: Her name is. Hi Jess. I hope you're listening to this . Wonderful. Thank you so much for taking the time to to meet here. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. So much you could I info this conversation right? I hope you took some notes. Uh, please find out more about Robbie and his work@robbiesamuels.com. And if you didn't take notes, go over to uh, find his checklist@robbiesamuels.com slash videos for his 30 plus Zoom strategy videos and checklists. [00:46:37] Uh, his podcast where I'll be a guest on soon as well, I is called on the schmooze, and you can find it on the schmooze.com. And his book, uh, again, is called Break Out of Boredom, low Tech Solutions for Highly Engaging Zoom Events. And if you're looking for others who think like you, then why not join us in the Humane Marketing Circle? [00:46:58] Find out more [00:47:00] at humane.marketing/circle. As I mentioned before, we meet twice monthly on Zoom right now, and our calls are definitely non boring and highly engaging because everyone is heard and seen. So again, humane.marketing. Circle. You find the show notes of this episode@humane.marketing slash 60 and 60 episodes. [00:47:27] Wow, I can't believe it. On this beautiful page, you'll also find a series of free offers, such as my Saturday newsletter, the Humane Business Manifesto, and the free gentle confidence mini course, as well as my two books, marketing like we're human and selling like we're human, and. Audiobook fan. Uh, this is just a reminder that marketing like we're human is now also available in audio format on Audible or anywhere else where you get your audiobooks. [00:47:58] Of course, read by [00:48:00] yours. Truly. Thank you so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares for yourself, your clients, and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers, so go be the change you want to see in the. Speak soon.

Today's conversation fits under the P of People If you're a regular here, you know that I'm organizing the conversations around the 7Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. (If you're new here and don't know what I'm talking about you can download your 1page marketing plan with the Humane Marketing version of the 7 Ps of Marketing at humane.marketing/1page. It comes with 7 email prompts to really help you reflect on these different Ps). So, we're talking about the P of people or H of Humans. Only 5 years ago, if I said ‘People' you probably pictured a room full of people, or you and your clients or you and your friends going for a walk. Today, in the business context, a lot of the People stuff happens online, on Zoom. I've been working online for many years before the pandemic, so it wasn't a big change for me. I remember putting up a bonus free webinar to help teachers get acquinted with Zoom in the early months of the pandemic. Well, now everyone is Zooming. But not everyone does it well. Just the other week I watched a really quite uncomfortable Zoom call (or a teams call in that case) in a corporate setting where only the manager who was talking was on video, everyone else was hiding behind the screen. When he asked questions, there were long uncomfortable silences. I've myself had to really learn and still learning how facilitate groups on Zoom like our Humane Marketing Circle while giving everyone a chance to speak, and still keep the intimacy in breakout rooms. That's why I'm really excited to be able to learn from today's guest, Robbie Samuels. Robbie has been recognized as a networking expert by NPR, PCMA, Harvard Business Review, Forbes, and Inc, and as an expert in virtual event design by JDC Events. As a virtual event design consultant and executive Zoom producer, he helps organizations bring their events online with less stress and greater participant engagement. He is the author of three books, including his latest, ​​"Break Out of Boredom: Low-Tech Solutions for Highly Engaging Zoom Events.” Since 2016, he has hosted the On the Schmooze podcast and, since March 2020, #NoMoreBadZoom Virtual Happy Hour. In today's episode, Robbie and I talk about: How to host virtual events that feel like we're human How to facilitate bigger groups Create valuable breakout rooms How to make sure everyone gets a turn to speak How to create a feeling of community between participants Best practices to make calls engaging and fun And so much more Thanks for listening!   After you listen, check out Humane Business Manifesto, an invitation to belong to a movement of people who do business the humane and gentle way and disrupt the current marketing paradigm. You can download it for free at this page. There's no opt-in. Just an instant download. Are you enjoying the podcast?  The Humane Marketing show is listener-supported—I'd love for you to become an active supporter of the show and join the Humane Marketing Circle. You will be invited to a private monthly Q&A call with me and fellow Humane Marketers -  a safe zone to hang out with like-minded conscious entrepreneurs and help each other build our business and grow our impact.  — I'd love for you to join us! Learn more at humane.marketing/circle Don't forget to subscribe to the show on iTunes or on Android to get notified for all my future shows and why not sign up for my weekly(ish) "Sarah Suggests Saturdays", a round-up of best practices, tools I use, books I read, podcasts, and other resources. Raise your hand and join the Humane Business Revolution. Warmly, Sarah Imperfect Transcript of the show We use and love Descript to edit our podcast and provide this free transcript of the episode. And yes, that's an affiliate link. Ep 160 Ep 160 [00:00:00] Sarah: Hello, humane marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non-pushy. [00:00:23] I'm Sarah z Croce, your hippie turn business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact by. Mama Bear of the Humane Marketing Circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you are ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like-minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency. [00:00:52] Works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like-minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a Zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business. [00:01:15] Sustainable way we share with transparency and vulnerability, what works for us and what doesn't work, so that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane.marketing/circle, and if you prefer one-on-one support from me. [00:01:37] My humane business Coaching could be just what you need, whether it's for your marketing, sales, general, business building, or help. Idea like writing a book. I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. [00:01:58] If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one-on-one client can find out more@humane.marketing slash. And finally, if you are a Marketing Impact pioneer and would like to bring Humane Marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website@humane.marketing. [00:02:33] Hi, friends. Welcome back. Today's conversation fits under the P of people. If you're a regular here, you know that I'm appreciating you and that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven Ps. Of the Humane Marketing Mandala, and if you're new here, I appreciate you just as much, and maybe you don't know what I'm talking about, but you can download your one page marketing plan with the [00:03:00] humane marketing version of the seven Ps of marketing@humane.marketing slash. [00:03:06] One page, the number one, then the word page, and this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different Ps and kind of question all your assumptions around them. So we're talking about the P of people or the. Age of humans today, and you know, only five years ago if I said people, you probably pictured their room full of people or you and your clients, or you and your friends going for a walk. [00:03:38] But today, in the business context, a lot of the people stuff happens online on Zoom right now, I've been working online for many. Before the pandemic, so it wasn't a big change for me, but I remember putting up a bonus free webinar to help teachers get acquainted with Zoom in the early months of the pandemic because [00:04:00] none of the teachers knew how to use Zoom. [00:04:02] Of course. So everyone is zooming today, but not everyone does it well. Um, just the other week I watched a really quite uncomfortable zoom call or a teams call in that case, in a corporate setting where. Only the manager who was talking was on video, and everyone else was kind of hiding behind the screen. [00:04:25] And when he asked questions, there were like these long, uncomfortable silences and nobody answered. Not saying that silence is bad, silence is good, but in this case, if everybody's hidden behind their camera, then the poor manager obviously doesn't know what they're doing if they're even still there. So anyway. [00:04:46] Had to really learn, and I'm still learning myself how to facilitate groups on Zoom, like the ones in our humane marketing circle, while giving everyone a chance to speak [00:05:00] and still keep the intimacy in breakout rooms. So, yeah, I learned a lot over the last two years and that's why I'm super excited to be able to learn even more from today's guest, Robbie Samuels. [00:05:14] Robbie is a recognized networking expert and an expert in virtual event design. As a virtual event design consultant and executive Zoom producer, he helps organizations bring their events online with less stress and greater per participant engagement. He's the author of three books, including his latest. [00:05:36] Break out of boredom, low tech solutions for highly engaging Zoom events. Since 2016, he has hosted the Amish Schmooze Podcast and since March, 2020, the no more bad Zoom virtual happy hour. . So in this episode with Robbie, we talked about how to host virtual events that feel like we're [00:06:00] human, how to facilitate bigger groups, how to create valuable breakout rooms, how to make sure everyone gets a turn to speak, how to create a feeling of community between participants. [00:06:14] Best practices to make calls engaging and fun and so much more. As you will probably be able to tell, I really took this kind of like a, a mini coaching session for myself, and again, we're really applying this in our humane marketing circle. It's intimate, it's engaging everybody. Uh, turn or a chance to speak. [00:06:39] So if that's something you are curious about, do have a look at humane.marketing/circle. It's our community of humane marketers or entrepreneurs who want to market their business their way. We meet twice per month in an online setting. Right now it's Zoom, but [00:07:00] we'll actually change over to our own private live room on k. [00:07:05] Have a look at the details at humane.marketing/circle. And with that, let's welcome Robbie. Hey Robbie. So good to see you speak to you today. Yeah, thanks for having me here. Yeah, I'm excited. Uh, it's one of those topics, right, that five years ago we probably wouldn't be sitting on a call together, or at least not for that. [00:07:29] Probably more for networking, uh, because that's, that was your thing in the past or probably still is, but, but yeah, you kind of pivoted with the, with the pandemic and all. But yeah, I, I kind of. Dove right into it. So welcome to the Humane Marketing Podcast. I love you. You, I love to have you here. Why don't you take us a little bit into the past, but not too much, because we really wanna talk about, you know, zoom calls, group calls, [00:08:00] facilitation online, and all of that, which is the topic of your latest book as well. [00:08:05] So take us a little bit to the past and then to, to the. [00:08:09] Robbie: Well, Sarah, um, I spent over 10 years before the pandemic working to be recognized as a networking expert with a focus on networking at conferences, and that included writing a, my first book, launching a podcast. , um, creating a group coaching program, writing for Howard Business Review, doing a TEDx talk. [00:08:28] I was poised to be an overnight success 10 years in the making. Uh, my TEDx talk came out January, 2020, and by March, 2020 nobody cared. , it was sort of a, uh, not a very relevant topic to be an expert in around in-person networking because all in-person conferences and events really, Vanished. So I was trying to figure out how to show up and add value, and I wrote nine Ways to Network in a Pandemic as a, as a blog post on March 12th, 2020. [00:08:57] And one of those ways was to host [00:09:00] a virtual happy hour, which I did on March 13th. Unbeknownst to me that really launched a whole new thriving six figure business, uh, with all kinds of new revenue streams and really impacted a lot of other people's. I mean, it impacted my life, but the ripple effect is, has been extraordinary. [00:09:17] And by the end of the year, I was supporting organizations of bringing their events online with less stress and greater participant engagement. And as you mentioned, I am about to release on the three anniversary of that first virtual Happy hour, my third book, which is Break Out of Boredom, low Tech Solutions for Highly Engaging Zoom Event. [00:09:37] Sarah: Wonderful. Wow, what a comeback. Kudos to you. It must have been quite a dark night of the soul. I, I imagine that just kind of like realizing, oh my God, now what? [00:09:49] Robbie: Well, I mean, I, I accepted what was happening on March 9th because I had been paying attention to the news and mm-hmm. sort of was watching this come starting. [00:09:57] You saw this probably in January, just kinda like, [00:10:00] yeah. I was watching it kind of, kind of encroach our, our shores mm-hmm. and get closer and closer, so, I think I came to terms with it, uh, but I didn't know what to do next, and I don't like feeling that, I mean, I, I'm a person of action, so that feeling of being stuck. [00:10:14] But I was very fortunate because on uh, that Wednesday of that week, which is the 11th, I met with my peer mastermind and they gave me a kick in the pants and said, you don't think of networking as something that only happens in person. You have been building a global network for five years, virtually. [00:10:31] Why don't you go help people? And that got me outta my own way, and that's what led me to. Um, basically that night I started working on the nine ways list and, uh, published it the next day it got, you know, a good response cause it was very timely and I said, okay, I need to do one of these things. And I just looked at the list and it was 8:00 PM on a Thursday night , which is why the event is held five o'clock on a Friday cuz it was the next open spot that I could imagine calling a happy [00:11:00] hour. [00:11:00] And I didn't intend it to be a global network. A global event, but 36 countries have been represented amongst the members. Nice. Who attended I, and I'm still hosting it. Right? I'm still hosting that event. No more bad. zoom.com. Three years later. [00:11:13] Sarah: Wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's really it. It kind of demonstrates this idea of that you are not. [00:11:21] You know, you're, you're not kind of pushed into a niche, and that's where you are stuck for the rest of your life. There's a common thread to your message, right? And whether it is networking in person or now networking online and doing online meetings, Your concept or your approach to it is still the same? [00:11:41] Uh, it reminds me of my dark night of the soul where I got, you know, into a trademark mess where someone, um, was basically blocking me of using gentle marketing, which was the term I used before. And for like about two weeks, I was stuck a bit longer, Robbie, for about two weeks. I was like, well, now what? [00:11:59] [00:12:00] You know, how, how do I get out of this? And everything, everything I built, the books I published and, and two years of work and all of that. But then I realized, people told me as well, it's, well, it's not about a word. You know, you still have the community, you still have the concept, and, and so it's just mm-hmm. [00:12:17] It's great to hear those stories, I think. Right. For listeners as well to realize, well, you know, you can rebound. and, and start something new and it's still gonna be you and it's still giving you your approach, but, you know, just slightly different topic. So, so yeah, let's talk about this slightly different topic because, uh, as you, I think, uh, in one of the videos I watched from you, you said, you know, at the beginning you didn't even know you had breakout rooms, came with your free Zoom account. [00:12:48] And so yeah, that's how we all felt at the beginning of the pandemic. Been working online for years and years. So I knew Zoom, but it's true that a lot of people had like no idea [00:13:00] how to, you know, for me as well, breakout rooms was not a thing that I was using. So nowadays obviously everybody is zooming or, or teams or whatever they're using. [00:13:10] So how do you s how have you seen this evolve? Like what would you say in general? is the kind of the state of the online meetings now. Mm-hmm. . Do most people use them to their advantage and you know that it's really great. All these Zoom meetings we have, or do you hear kind of the opposite? [00:13:33] Robbie: Well, just to go back to your earlier point, the through line for me is that events are about content and connection. [00:13:39] Right. People were leaving their house and getting on planes to travel to conferences, not just for the information they would learn, but for the people they would meet. Right. And so when events became synonymous with the virtual events, I knew we needed to figure out a way to make that possible virtually. [00:13:57] Now, prior to the pandemic, An [00:14:00] online program, which was typically a webinar platform where you couldn't see participants and participants couldn't see each other. Right. It was 45 minutes of death by PowerPoint, followed by ineffectual Q and A on moderating chat . Oh God. Yeah. So I think we've come a long way in what our expectations are, but I also think it depends on the industry. [00:14:19] Because I still know, you know, I've, I've been invited to do some programming virtually for the employee resource group of like a bank or a law firm or financial sector. And like, they tend to be blown away by what I'm doing because they're using it in a very, Minimalist approach to how they use whatever platform they're using. [00:14:42] They're just like turning on their camera and that's it. And [00:14:46] Sarah: if that, because I've assisted to some of the meetings my husband has to kind of survive through and yeah, nobody is on camera like. . [00:14:55] Robbie: That's just it. So, so I think that it really is a range. I can't answer like one way, but I [00:15:00] also don't focus personally on corporate space or the workforce. [00:15:03] Mm-hmm. , I'm my book and my approach is really focusing on the presenters who have between 60 and 90 minutes to offer value to a one-time audience. now, and a lot of this can be therefore applied if you are teaching, uh, a course or a class, this is, you know, or even like a, a weekly team meeting, you can apply a lot of this to that. [00:15:25] But I think there's, there's a few more restrictions. So, for instance, I don't recommend using third party. Tools like Mentee Meter and Jamboard, which I love. But if you only have 60, 75, 90 minutes, you might lose people because if they don't, if they're not familiar and you don't know if they're familiar cuz you don't know the audience super well, you might lose them. [00:15:45] And, and if, if it's about engagement, you're gonna get 70 to 90% of people to responding to a Zoom poll. And you might get 30 to 50% actually answering. , one of these third party polls. Mm-hmm. . And so [00:16:00] yes, it's fancy, yes, it's cool , but if the end result is fewer people actually taking action and people feeling a little bit confused about something, that's not where we want people to be. [00:16:11] So I also, I really focus a lot in the book and in the work that I do on some principles around purpose first design and also quality facilitation. So I'm, I'm specifically focusing on the Zoom. As far as the technology, but those other pieces around facilitation and purpose first design are applicable to any medium, including in person. [00:16:36] Mm-hmm. . So I think there's a strong Venn diagram because I also do in-person event design consulting, and I've been doing that a long time. And then back to doing that again now that people are backed in person. So to me there's a big overlap. How you design an in-person workshop or presentation for 90 minutes and online, but then there's the outliers that you have to consider for both. [00:16:58] So I think that there's a lot of [00:17:00] potential. I've done incredible programming. I've got some great stories in the book about some really cool outcomes we've achieved by bringing people together across geographies to have really in depth conversations about important topics. . I also think that people's tolerance for the sort of boring approach, , is they really don't have any, like, I think people are zoomed out and zoom fatigue. [00:17:24] That's why I call it breakout of boredom. And, and by, by the way, breakout rooms, I went from not knowing I had access to, you know, , I dunno, my book's like 60 some odd thousand words and like 10,000 words. Almost 20% is about breakout rooms. So, [00:17:40] Sarah: yeah. So let's go there. Um, I, I wanna really have you walk us through kind of some of these, you know, yes, they're technicalities, but I think the way you explain them is always comes back to purpose. [00:17:54] You know, like what is. , what's the common [00:18:00] purpose for, uh, us to be on this call? That's how I understood it, um, when I went through this checklist that you'll share with us at the end. So let's start with the waiting room, right? Um, that's usually our first experience when we go on to a Zoom meeting. So how, if we are, if my listeners are hosting a group, uh, zoom. [00:18:24] what are some of the things that can be done? Let's just take Zoom as an example, can be done to already kind of give people this feeling of I belong, or this is, I'm a, I'm on in the right group here. Sure. Like what [00:18:39] Robbie: can we do? Well, for starters, if you're having a group meeting, stop using your personal meeting room because, uh, you, if you write, if you create a meeting, a specific meeting for. [00:18:53] Group, then the name of that meeting will be what appears in the waiting room. Um, so that'll assure people. But you can [00:19:00] also have different settings. So if you use a different link, you could set it so that participants are muted upon entry. Mm-hmm. . Now for why one-on-one calls, I do use my personal meeting ID and I don't mute people because if it's just two of us, I, I don't need you to be muted. [00:19:18] It's actually kind of an inconvenience for you to be. Right, because people start talking and I have to point out to them like, don't forget to unmute . Yeah, the usual, you're muted . Yeah. So then the other thing I would say for waiting rooms, you can customize it beyond that. And there's a bunch of different options. [00:19:33] A lot of what I'm gonna be sharing is under zoom.us, and then you go to settings, which is on the left side menu, and you can just start from the top. And actually really close to the top is waiting rooms. So there's some really cool customi customization, uh, including you can embed a video, you can put an image, you can put text. [00:19:50] Um, I sometimes have texts just says, , take a breath. You know, like, yeah. Take a, take a moment to yourself. Mm-hmm. before you come in. Yeah. But you need [00:20:00] to know that whatever you put for your customization will be what people see for all of your meetings. For that one account. So Okay. If you make a special video for like a big event you're doing, you have to then remember, put a note on your calendar to switch it back to whatever. [00:20:14] You're more general, so you can [00:20:16] Sarah: customized each waiting room separately for each meeting. It's just one you [00:20:21] Robbie: can, but you'd have to like keep going back in and remembering to switch it on and off. Right. [00:20:25] Sarah: Okay. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Okay, great. So, uh, one question. Can people chat already in the waiting room? [00:20:33] I don't think so. Right. [00:20:35] Robbie: Uh, they can't, uh, right now the host can communicate with people in the waiting room. Uh, and I think that they're gonna come out with a feature where the waiting room can then respond back to the host individually. Okay. Um, they, you cannot change your name, for instance, in the waiting. [00:20:53] but the host can change your name. So there's some new features that are coming out. Okay. Um, but I also wanna go back to, [00:21:00] you mentioned purpose first design, and I, I address it as well. So I want you to think about, as people are coming into your session, they're going to be thinking, feeling, and you're doing. [00:21:11] one thing. At the end of their time together, they're gonna be thinking, feeling, and or doing something else. And then in between is the transformation, right? So if you really spend some time thinking about where they're starting and where you want them to end up, that will help you decide. The structure flow, what exercises, what kind of content, how much time to spend on things, what to put in the waiting room, whether or not to have a breakout room. [00:21:38] If so, what kind of question? What kind of, what is the goal of, even for a breakout room, like what's the purpose of a breakout room? Is it around networking? Is it for them to discuss something? Is it for them to share? Is for them to feel like they belong. Like once you understand the sort of really primary focus of each piece of it and how it fits in with that overall goal, it's gonna help you design a much better [00:22:00] quality experience for your participants. [00:22:02] So that's the purpose first design piece. And then the facilitation is just to stop confusing people by saying the incorrect thing. Like go ahead and raise your hand in chat. Never been a raised hand button in chat. I've heard that phrase a lot. Or pointing down and like pointing, uh, pointing here and saying, go to reactions when that's not where it is. [00:22:28] Reactions on your side is on he over here. So if I, if I go to tell you like, um, oh, go ahead and go ahead and, uh, go to the top right of your screen and click. I'm not pointing at the right side of your screen. . This is the right side of your screen. So that's cold mirroring . Mm-hmm. And if you were on a stage physically, you would, you would know that, right? [00:22:51] Like you would know that if you pointed to your left, they're gonna see it on the right. But when we're doing this virtually, people kind of forgot all about that. So that just [00:23:00] hurts our brains. It makes our brains work a little extra hard. And that's part of that zoom fatigue is confusing instructions. [00:23:07] Um, The person who spends a lot of time saying, um, all right, let's see. I'm gonna try to share my slides. Let's see. Oh, the file's not open. And then they like, share their desktop. And you watch them like go through everything on their desktop. You're like, uhhuh, as they like narrate every step. That's, we can all get 5% better every time we zoom. [00:23:30] Yeah. Whether we're participating, whether we're hosting, whether we're speaking. Just aim to get that little bit better. . [00:23:37] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. There's so many small details that we need to learn, right? That, that now it's this extra layer. And actually in some of the videos you, you mentioned it's really helpful to a first, have an extra, um, screen that you can, you know, have one just dedicated screen for your PowerPoint presentation, for example. [00:23:58] Mm-hmm. , uh, [00:24:00] and even, uh, an extra person, like someone who helps you, you know, read through their questions in a q and a setting, or, yeah, just like there's so many things that we have to manage that, or we haven't even started talking about breakout rooms. But yeah, there's a lot of things going on that it, it really is sometimes helpful to have a, an extra person. [00:24:22] Robbie: Mm-hmm. , I think if, um, if you have more than 20 people, , I think it's, it starts to be a, for most people, that's where it makes sense to start thinking about having a second person. Right. But that second person, um, could be like a fellow. Uh, I, I know for instance, I know speakers who sh who support each other. [00:24:42] Right. Will they take turns? Like one will moderate chat for one person's program and then the other one will go back and moderate chat for the other person's program? Yeah. Awesome. You can train an assistant or, uh, an. or you know, a VA or even a member of your community to manage chat and manage the q and a [00:25:00] and manage, you know, all of that. [00:25:01] So yeah, it, it, it, and then, but it scales up because, you know, I, I train people on to be Zoom producers, and so Zoom producer would do all the tech, not just the chat. They would handle any technical issues that. You know, community has getting in, getting their sound to work. And then they would also, uh, manage breakout rooms and sharing slides if you need them to, any, anything needed. [00:25:27] Uh, as well as managing chat. And then there's the executive sort of, uh, event design, virtual event design that I do where I'm really providing the strategy ahead of time, training the speakers and how to look good, all that stuff. So it, there's layer. . But I would say starting with having a. Understanding of what does a good Q and A even look like? [00:25:50] Mm-hmm. , and then what kind of support you might need to pull that off. If you've only got six or seven people in a room, I think you're, you're fine on your own. Fine. Yeah. But you still have to know that [00:26:00] while I'm doing my best to look at the camera, there's something happening in chat. So I have sort of techniques where I ask people to write their question and chat, but to write the word question in all caps before their question. [00:26:13] So I'm more likely to. To see it. I also increase the font size by to 150% of the original font size in chat, which makes it a lot easier to catch when things are happening, um, off to side. So these are all little things that over time one thing becomes easier. Then you add on something else. So I'm not saying everyone has to do everything all at once. [00:26:36] That's the 5% part. Um, so I actually have a, a program called The 5% Advantage, and it's the, I launched it in May of 2020 and um, my wife was like, why would anyone wanna get 5% better ? And I said, no, no, every time it's about like continual improvement. , it's, it, it's amazing, like how much faster you will improve if you aim to just [00:27:00] keep getting a little bit better each time. [00:27:03] Sarah: I like that. Um, I do wanna ask you about breakout rooms cuz that's I think one of the things that Yeah, a lot of, uh, these. Programs, um, now include right now that we've gotten used to being on camera on Zoom, where it's not just like a webinar style anymore. And so one of the things you mentioned, um, is this idea of having clear instructions and, and I think I. [00:27:28] Really, I probably get better 5% every time I do it, but it's true that it's so essential to give clear instructions before sending people off into breakout rooms. Cuz you, you explained, you know the situation where people find themselves in the breakout room and they're like, Uh, anyone know what we have to do? [00:27:48] And, you know, they just start chatting about who they are and, and all of that. So, what's kind of like best practices about giving clear instructions, uh, for these breakout [00:27:58] Robbie: rooms? So start back [00:28:00] with the purpose first design. What is the goal of the session? The, the breakout part of this session? Um, if it's a quick icebreaker, then you can do either two people for five minutes or three for six. [00:28:11] If you can open more. I don't know, 10, 15 rooms. I would say three for. minutes is better cuz it's less likely that someone's gonna get stuck in a room by themself because of the internet. Um, failing one person. Um, but that would be like a quick icebreaker question. So they're just, they're literally just going around for a moment to say hello to each other. [00:28:30] Uh, you might do three or four people for 10 minutes. To similarities, how people go around and answer a question. Um, each person gets a couple of minutes and then that goes all the way up to, you know, a discussion where people might get, you know, it might be five or six people for 15 minutes where people really all answer a quick question, but then they dive into. [00:28:49] thoughts about that question a little bit more. So what happens is that if you just sort of throw people in a room without any clear question, uh, someone will [00:29:00] eventually unmute. Like at first they're all gonna like, look at each other. Like, what do we do here? The person who's most comfortable, um, most privileged , uh, probably has been around this community the longest is, is gonna be the one who unmutes and they may not relinquish the microphone and it might become just a. [00:29:19] A whole session of one person talking and now you're in the main room and you're like, awesome People are engaged. They're having so much fun. But that's, that's like checkbox engagement. Like in reality, one person had the mic for the whole time. So what I wanted to say is intentional engagement is that we provide not only a question that is specific, one question, not lots, don't ask the choose from three and all that, but you also provide an answer. [00:29:46] So you say, , you know, what's your biggest win of the week? Here's mine to get you thinking. Here's mine that you then put the question that you just said as the prompt in chat, and you say, if you need [00:30:00] to, you can open up chat and see the question. And let's go alphabetically. Let's go alphabetically by last name. [00:30:07] So if your last name's closest to a, you'll go first. We'll go in that order. And if you don't have a last name showing, go ahead and add it. Or you're going first. Hmm. And that way they get in their brains have already been thinking about the question. , when you tell your answer, you're sharing a story and stories ignite stories in other people's brains. [00:30:27] Mm-hmm. . So when I tell you my big win of the week, you start thinking about, well, what's my big win of the week? Mm-hmm. . So you're already a little bit primed to participate, and then you find out the order and you realize. . Ooh, there's a good chance I'm gonna be going first. , like my last name's close to a, and you're like, oh. [00:30:43] So you really are mentally repaired to unmute and jump in. Now some people get kind of cutesy about the order and they do like longest and short hair or colors of shirts or birthdays. All of those are kind of distracting. Take some time to discuss. [00:31:00] Leading. I mean I've been in so many sessions like that, that we end up talking about horoscopes cuz we were asked to like go in the order of our birthdays, right? [00:31:09] So I generally, I say like alphabetical or, or reverse alphabetical by, um, first name or last name. And if you really think a particular order would be helpful, for instance, maybe people for most experience at least experience with something you can say when you get into the breakout rooms, go to chat and put in the. [00:31:27] Of years you have with this, and we'll use that to organize, you know, most experienced, at least experience. But, um, but all that structure is actually, um, it helps people feel like they belong. And I actually think that thoughtful structure is about inclusion. It's about people feeling not just invited, but welcomed into a conversation. [00:31:49] It tells shy people and introverted people and newcomer. and people who maybe you speak a language that's different than the dominant language being used, it tells [00:32:00] them exactly what the rules are. There's no like in crowd knows how to ask questions or how to unmute. Everybody knows everything. So I think we, we, um, we as hosts and facilitators sometime like relinquish our role by saying, you all figure it out, but just like an in-person event, like people thrown together at a bar. [00:32:24] Often find the people they wanna meet. But when you structure an event at a bar and you've got name tags and people who are welcoming, you've got activities, you have people in, you know, interacting and engaging with each other. , that little bit of structure is what leads people to find each other, not just the randomness. [00:32:41] And I think online we need the similar structure to help people really find value in those breakout room discussions and wanna stay in touch. Everybody wants to find their people. Nobody wants to feel like they're the only one in the room having this challenged problem, identity, whatever it is. So I, I love [00:33:00] breakout rooms for that reason. [00:33:00] I think it provides so much community building. and then you bring them back. And I think an important part of, of breakout rooms is thinking about what kind of debrief. And by default, a lot of times the debrief is just how people use the raised hand feature. Um, or worse, worse than that would be go ahead and unmute if you have anything to say. [00:33:20] I'm like in person. You would never be like, all right folks, just start talking . It's just so weird that we do that online all the time. Um, so I would say alternate between sometimes having people raise their hand, which is self nominat. Sometimes have people write things in chat sometimes, uh, have them write things in chat, but wait to hit enter until you tell them. [00:33:39] I call that a, uh, waterfall debrief. Um, sometimes I have people nominate someone in chat mm-hmm. . So like, who shared a really great win, nominate them and let's, uh, get them to share with all of us. Um, there's just so many ways. To bring lots of voices in, not always the same. Like I'm an outgoing extrovert. [00:33:56] I, Sarah, I will raise my hand, answer a question, not knowing what the question [00:34:00] even was. , like, I'm like, sure. Mm-hmm. . But then you have people like me dominated in conversations the whole time. So the structure allows someone else to grab the mic or to be invited to grab the mic if they choose. [00:34:12] Sarah: Yeah. Thank you. [00:34:13] I'm grabbing the, I'm grabbing the mic. I'm the introvert in the room. . Um, yeah. So many good things. Two, no, I'm just gonna kind of reiterate the main takeaways for me. So first of all, yeah, the clear instructions when you send people into the breakout room and, and also what I really loved is, and what we haven't been doing in my Humane Marketing Circle community is defining ahead of time who goes first. [00:34:43] I think that is a big aha for me to really say. . Yeah. Take away that awkwardness like, you know, do you wanna go first? No, you go first. So it's like, okay. It's already clear who goes first. What my community recently asked me is actually to have two [00:35:00] minutes of reflection before they go into a breakout room so that they can. [00:35:05] Kind of think about because we kind of go deep into the, in, in the breakout rooms. But the other thing I learned right now from you is to, for them to already have my answer, um, so that it, like you said, it's a story, right? So they come in with a story, um, And I love that. One thing you didn't mention, uh, that I'm doing, and you'll tell me what you think about that is. [00:35:30] So I usually, for now, I don't go into the breakout rooms just because I, I don't have another person to help me manage it. So I'm the one sending the messages into the breakout rooms saying, okay, it's time to switch next person, you know. The three or four minutes to talk. Do you use that? Is that a good practice or do you [00:35:50] Robbie: Yeah, so, um, there's a couple things that I didn't, I didn't mention that. [00:35:54] Made me think about. One is there's a, there's a setting when you, there's an option when you set up the breakout [00:36:00] rooms that will put a countdown clock on the top. Right? Right. So it's really helpful to turn that on Uhhuh because then when everyone gets in, they know they have 10 minutes and they know how much time is remaining. [00:36:10] Um, helps 'em divide the time up equally. It helps them. Wrap their conversation up and at the end of that 10 minutes, my recommendation is to change. To be a 15 second countdown clock is default. 60 minutes. 60 seconds. Mm-hmm. But if you're watching the time countdown, and then suddenly you have a minute, there's this moment of almost walk awkward walk. [00:36:29] Awkward is when you say a big goodbye to someone at a restaurant and then discover we're both going in the same direction to your cars . That's. in person, but similarly, like you get to this point where everyone's like, all right, great, see you. Oh, 60 seconds. And then some people leave. Some people are like, oh, I have a whole nother thing. [00:36:47] I think I can squeeze in 60. Like it just, you know. So you're the [00:36:51] Sarah: countdown. It's better to have less time [00:36:53] Robbie: actually. Like Yeah, just get like, okay, we're wrapping up, we're coming back like we had, you got your 10 minutes, [00:37:00] then come back. Or to tell people, I mean, I guess if you wanted 'em to keep the 60 seconds, you can say, It's gonna be, you know, I guess just give people clear instructions. [00:37:08] Yeah. Um, and then, yes, there's a couple of ways to broadcast into the rooms. One is text only, and I, that's like walking by with a sign. Like if you were at an in-person event, you'd be walking by with a sign that said two minutes. You know, and you wouldn't say anything. You would just walk by and try to catch. [00:37:24] Not everyone would see it. You might be holding the sign behind some people's heads. Right. It's a very small font at the top. Then they have broadcast. and that is a lot more jarring if you wanted to use it. I think you need to tell people in advance, um, that you're going to say switch because it's a voice [00:37:42] Sarah: outta nowhere. [00:37:42] I never used it cuz I thought like, that is so odd if all of a sudden [00:37:46] Robbie: they hear my voice. Now, if you only had two people and it was very clearly like, you know, pairing and then switch, I could see cuz again would you in person like ring a bell and call out. Okay folks switch like [00:38:00] if you would. Think about like, yes, it's disruptive. [00:38:04] Now the problem is if you, if you have three people you don't know when they switched, like it's not as exact as science. And then there's also a way to broadcast an image, a video, or um, like a slides, like anything you can put on your screen, you can broadcast that. , um, that would be interesting to do if you had facilitators in the rooms and you wanted everyone to go through this content at the same pace. [00:38:26] You would be advancing the slides based on a certain increment of time. Facilitators would then be sort of taking questions, um, and. You would know that all the rooms were kind of moving through the content at the same pace, at the same amount of time for q and a at the end, and you'd be managing that. [00:38:44] They wouldn't be able to forward it, they wouldn't be able to annotate on it. But it is a way to like share the question. Again, it's disruptive in the sense that suddenly there's this thing on their screen mm-hmm. , um, that's, that's blocking some of them. Although they're, it's funny because the people are gonna be, uh, actually [00:39:00] over here in the image over here if they have a side by side set up. [00:39:03] So, but, um, but generally, yeah, the broadcast messaging, I would say like a two minute warning is usually really useful, like a halfway through two minutes left. But, um, the countdown clock up here is, is really, really helpful for most. . [00:39:17] Sarah: Yeah, I'll start using that. I haven't used that. I didn't know it existed. [00:39:20] And, and so thanks to your checklist, I now know where it is. So, so, um, yeah, we're coming to the end and, and so let's not forget to mention your checklist, but we started with the beginning. We went through the, you know, breakout rooms and all of that. And you said in the design, it's so important to also think. [00:39:40] you know, how are we gonna end this? So what is a good ending? What is, do you use any rituals or, um, yeah. You mentioned pictures, I think in one of the tips as well where you kind of take a screenshot of everybody. What are some good ideas for ending [00:39:56] Robbie: calls? Well, I think a lot of times calls end [00:40:00] with, well, we don't really have any time for anymore questions. [00:40:04] Like, and that's it. So if it's a presentation, I think it's really smart to. like two minutes. The end where you say, you know, oh, okay. Let me just, um, you know, those were great questions. Lemme just share some closing thoughts and then you have like the reiteration of your main point. Not, not new information, but like, it could be a reiteration of your main point. [00:40:26] It could be call to action or here are some next steps, or Here's what's coming up. , but you make sure that the, you know, if you're hosting, you give the mic back to the speaker, you thank them, you let them have two minutes, and then you take it back and say like, thank you. Here's what's happening next. So we just, you wanna think about having kind of a close, um, that isn't just, you know, wa wa we're out of time and, um, and, and gets people thinking about what do they do with this next, I, I like to do something I call calendaring, connecting, collaborating, and I do this both [00:41:00] in person. [00:41:01] as well as online when I design calendaring. Connecting, collaborating. So calendaring is you ask everyone to take a minute to think about one thing they can do in the next two weeks that they will help them move forward on this topic. And you say, great, now that you have that idea, open your calendar on your phone and find a time in the next two weeks that you're gonna be able to do that. [00:41:22] And like, look at your notes from today and. Connecting is if you're not quite sure what to do or you need some help, uh, look around to the people that you've been meeting with today and in breakout rooms and me and other. Here are some other people and resources. These are the people that you can sup, get support from. [00:41:39] Write down their names. Make sure that in those two weeks you also reach out to some of them and say hello and build a connection or deepen a connection. And then collaboration is that we're not doing any of this alone. I'd love to know. What happens next? Um, you know, lean into each other together. We're gonna build great things. [00:41:56] So, you know, this is your community. And I think that [00:42:00] particularly if, if your goal is to move people from inspiration to action, having that kind of ritualistic closure is helpful because, You know, some people will take tons of notes, but it's, it's useless without a plan. And others are just listening and not taking notes and so they, they also don't have a plan. [00:42:17] And so building some time in, and that could be 10 minutes, that could be a, a, you can really draw that out if you wanted to, or it could be something you do kind of quickly. [00:42:26] Sarah: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I love that. And I love that. , you know, we allow ourselves to have time for that. Uh, and that really needs to be planned into the whole Yes. [00:42:37] Uh, meeting. Right. Oftentimes, like you said, you kind of find yourself just rushed at the end and it's just like, [00:42:43] Robbie: okay, bye. Best content is more. Yeah. I think too often we try to cram a lot in, I wrote my first book in order to stop doing two hour programs. Mm-hmm. , like I had been doing this two hour talk for years and years and years, and I thought if I had a book, , I could say, oh, and you [00:43:00] can read more about that in my book and not have to say every single word. [00:43:04] And so similarly today, like we're not, I haven't, I mean, literally, I almost, you know, 20% of the book is on breakout Ri, so we, we scratch the surface of it, but it gets people the information to realize that there is a new way and then they can go investigate and DIY on their own or seek out support if they need it. [00:43:22] But yeah, I, I, there's a lot of. [00:43:25] Sarah: Yeah. And since you said less content is more. Right. I think also, uh, a point you made is like, don't, don't hide behind the slides. Mm-hmm. , especially if, if we're talking about community calls and, and not, you know, some kind of corporate settings. So definitely, yeah. That's one big one for me. [00:43:46] It's like yeah, the, whenever you can show up on the camera and not behind the slide. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Wonderful. Well, please do share, uh, again, the name of your [00:44:00] book and that, uh, p d f that people can download and look at your videos to go and dive deeper. [00:44:07] Robbie: Yeah. So, um, the book is called Break Out of Boredom, low Tech Solutions for Highly Engaging Zoom Events. [00:44:14] Uh, it is gonna be published, uh, later this week. So I'm gonna just tell you if you go to breakout of boredom.com. , um, after March 5th or sixth, the, the link will be live and ready to go. Um, building a huge launch team right now, so reach out. If you're interested in being part of that, I'd love a review and the videos that you're mentioning, it sounds like you've done a good job diving into them. [00:44:38] they're available@robbiesamuels.com slash videos, and they're also some of the bonus content. So the book has a lot of free bonus content and the videos, which are 30. Strategy videos and my no more bad zoom settings checklist. Those are, um, one of, I think 10 or 11 resources that are, um, sort of bonus content [00:45:00] that goes with the book, though, all that's available at the breakout of boredom.com. [00:45:05] Sarah: Wonderful. Thank you so much, Robbie. I always have one last question that I ask all my gifts and that is, what are you grateful for today or [00:45:13] Robbie: this. , my wife , she's amazing. Uh, she actually recently got laid off and wasn't feeling well. And yet, despite both those challenges, has been an incredible support. [00:45:24] I've had a very busy, uh, couple of months getting ready for this book, writing and launching at the same time. Um, and she holds our family together and our house together. And she, when we got married, said, you know, , you have higher earning potential than I do cuz you're entrepreneurial. And I said you may regret them saying that [00:45:44] And here we are. Um, it's true. I I am, I've got a business cuz I had someone who really believed in me and makes space for what I'm trying to create. So it's, you all need to thank her because I've been able to do a lot of good for a lot of people, [00:46:00] uh, because there's someone in my life who believes in, what's her name, Robbie. [00:46:03] Sarah: Her name is. Hi Jess. I hope you're listening to this . Wonderful. Thank you so much for taking the time to to meet here. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. So much you could I info this conversation right? I hope you took some notes. Uh, please find out more about Robbie and his work@robbiesamuels.com. And if you didn't take notes, go over to uh, find his checklist@robbiesamuels.com slash videos for his 30 plus Zoom strategy videos and checklists. [00:46:37] Uh, his podcast where I'll be a guest on soon as well, I is called on the schmooze, and you can find it on the schmooze.com. And his book, uh, again, is called Break Out of Boredom, low Tech Solutions for Highly Engaging Zoom Events. And if you're looking for others who think like you, then why not join us in the Humane Marketing Circle? [00:46:58] Find out more [00:47:00] at humane.marketing/circle. As I mentioned before, we meet twice monthly on Zoom right now, and our calls are definitely non boring and highly engaging because everyone is heard and seen. So again, humane.marketing. Circle. You find the show notes of this episode@humane.marketing slash 60 and 60 episodes. [00:47:27] Wow, I can't believe it. On this beautiful page, you'll also find a series of free offers, such as my Saturday newsletter, the Humane Business Manifesto, and the free gentle confidence mini course, as well as my two books, marketing like we're human and selling like we're human, and. Audiobook fan. Uh, this is just a reminder that marketing like we're human is now also available in audio format on Audible or anywhere else where you get your audiobooks. [00:47:58] Of course, read by [00:48:00] yours. Truly. Thank you so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares for yourself, your clients, and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers, so go be the change you want to see in the. Speak soon.