Podcasts about Croce

Today, we yapped about the racial homecoming sign in North Bend, the too-white Omaha city councilmember, yet another juvenile justice failure, 50 years since we lost the great Jim Croce*, and lots more.*I did get a couple words wrong in that impromtu song. Should have said "dirt track demon." I'll do better on the 60th anniversary.

Why do we make it so difficult to excel as parents, particularly as great mothers, in the US? We possess an abundance of knowledge—modern, Eastern, and ancient—that could greatly facilitate the processes of conception, pregnancy, childbirth, and the postpartum phase, not to mention the intricate task of raising children. Yet, we often fail to tap into, share, or embrace these resources throughout the US. Moreover, aside from guarding access to this knowledge, essential services that have the potential to revolutionize the lives of parents and families remain financially out of reach for many. Our special guest today, Sarah Croce, along with her non-profit organization, The Village for Mamas, is dedicated to altering this status quo, one mother at a time. A gentle reminder to also unite with us at the Miles for Mamas event in Santa Monica on September 24th.

Il rientro in Italia per noi espatriati è una coreografia intricata, in cui cerchiamo di trovare un equilibrio tra il desiderio di vacanza in famiglia e con gli amici, ma anche il tempo per noi e il nostro desiderio di girare per scoprire le bellezze della nostra terra e dell'Europa.

The podcast episode highlights the significant growth of Wescom's electrical division in the Permian Basin, expanding from a small group to approximately 35 electricians.Success in the division is attributed to structured growth, achieving milestones, and strategically placing the right personnel in key roles.The oil and gas industry's ever-changing nature demands a flexible leadership approach, with adaptability to varying departmental needs being crucial.Wescom's transition to an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP) is discussed, clarifying that daily operations remain unaffected by the change in ownership structure.Joey Croce receives recognition for his adept leadership, particularly in the growth of the Permian team and his ability to navigate challenges.The episode underscores the importance of asking questions to facilitate learning and effective decision-making throughout the organization.

If you were in Philadelphia over the nineties and early 2000s, and had even an inkling of interest in basketball – then you would certainly know Pat Croce. After becoming owner and president of the Philadelphia 76ers, he propelled the ‘last place' team to the NBA finals 2001. That was on the back of selling his chain of physical therapy centers for a cool $40 million. But was he happy? Despite these achievements, a pressing question loomed over him. “My wife would always say, ‘What are you chasing Pat? What are you afraid of?' … I had no clue … I thought the voice in the head was me.” Turning 60 brought profound changes. A T-cell lymphoma diagnosis led Mr. Croce to a new conquest – cancer. As a veteran physical therapist, he was adept at conditioning his body. Now, he had to condition his soul. On #VitalSigns, host Brendon Fallon discusses this inner transformation that helped him navigate through T-cell lymphoma. ⭕️ Watch in-depth videos based on Truth & Tradition at Epoch TV

Shane Stolp welcomes Joey Croce to Duluth, Minnesota.They celebrate Wescom's big announcement of becoming 100% employee-owned.Joey discusses the cultural differences between the Midwest and Carlsbad, New Mexico, where he works as Permian Operations President.Emphasis on instilling a sense of ownership and pride in employees and their common goal of working towards Energizing America.They highlight the company's growth and ability to attract talent, with people seeking job opportunities with Wescom.Joey shares the challenges of being a manager, including ensuring employee happiness and navigating tough conversations.Joey's daily work routine involves numerous phone calls and interacting with field workers to address their concerns.The episode provides valuable insights into the energy industry, company culture, and the rewards and difficulties of management.

“Alla fine della vita, amava ripetere san Giovanni della Croce, saremo giudicati sull'amore” (Opere, Edizioni OCD 2012, p.1091). E sull'amore fu giudicata, perdonata e ricompensata Maria Maddalena, la grande santa di cui il 22 luglio ricorre la festa liturgica, colei che con le lacrime del pentimento, asciugò e baciò i piedi di Cristo, e, per il suo amore ebbe la grazia di essere la prima testimone della Risurrezione del Signore.

Fatamorgana celebra i suoi 20 anni di attività e per l'occasione approda nel cuore della capitale, nel cosiddetto Tridente, precisamente in via della Croce 46/47, tra piazza di Spagna e via del Corso. Le porte della nuova gelatiera sono già aperte, e il 3 agosto 2023 – giorno del compleanno – si festeggerà con un party presso il locale. Questo diventa a tutti gli effetti il flagship store del brand e al suo interno – oltre al gelato 100% artigianale e naturale di Maria Spagnuolo che rimane l'unico protagonista indiscusso – ospita diverse novità: ci sono anche il Fatamisù espresso, il Gelato Affogato al Caffè e il Maritozzo con il Gelato, tutto da consumare in piedi o al bancone.

viene inaugurata venerdì 21 luglio, alla Dogana Reale di Bobbio Pellice, la mostra realizzata in occasione dei 90 anni della “Rencontre”, storico culto al Colle della Croce che riunisce i protestanti italiani e francesi.Il lavoro è stato curato dalla Fondazione Centro Culturale Valdese.Ne parliamo con Davide Rosso, direttore della Fondazione.

Quest'anno si celebrano i 90 anni di culto al Colle della Croce, in alta val Pellice, la Rencontre che unisce le comunità protestanti dei due versanti francese e italiano. Per celebrare l'anniversario, che verrà ricordato in particolare durante il culto del prossimo 23 luglio, sono stati organizzate due serate, il 21 e il 22 luglio, di musica, incontro e festa.In Voce delle Chiese abbiamo raccolto alcuni ricordi di persone che frequentano da anni la Rencontre.Dario Paone dei Trombettieri della val Pellice ricorda «tanta amicizia e musica. Tra i pochi strumenti che non hanno bisogno di amplificazione in montagna ci sono le trombe, e sono strumenti gioiosi, anche se pesanti!».Venerdì 21 luglio, a Bobbio Pellice alle ore 21 nel tempio ci sarà il concerto dei Trombettieri della Val Pellice con Les Ambrassadeurs delle Cévennes.Ascolta l'intervista con Dario Paone

Quest'anno si celebrano i 90 anni di culto al Colle della Croce, in alta val Pellice, la Rencontre che unisce le comunità protestanti dei due versanti francese e italiano.Per celebrare l'anniversario, che verrà ricordato in particolare durante il culto del prossimo 23 luglio, sono state organizzate due serate, il 21 e il 22 luglio, di musica, incontro e festa.In Voce delle Chiese abbiamo raccolto alcuni ricordi di persone che frequentano da anni la Rencontre.Adolfo Bartolomeo Rivoira, della chiesa valdese di Rorà, partecipa alla Rencontre da quando aveva 19 anni, e ricorda l'evento anche come un'occasione rara di “gita” all'estero, in periodi in cui non erano molte le occasioni per viaggiare. «Il sabato si scendeva in Francia, ad Abriès, il primo comune che si trova scendendo sul versante francese del colle, e chi aveva un po' risparmi da spendere approfittava quindi dell'occasione».

Quest'anno si celebrano i 90 anni di culto al Colle della Croce, in alta val Pellice, la Rencontre che unisce le comunità protestanti dei due versanti francese e italiano.Per celebrare l'anniversario, che verrà ricordato in particolare durante il culto del prossimo 23 luglio, sono state organizzate due serate, il 21 e il 22 luglio, di musica, incontro e festa.In Voce delle Chiese abbiamo raccolto alcuni ricordi di persone che frequentano da anni la Rencontre.Stefano D'Amore, pastore di Villar Pellice e attuale presidente della CED I distretto, conferma la volontà di rilanciare l'appuntamento: «Insieme agli altri pastori stiamo lavorando da qualche anno per rilanciare la partecipazione dei più giovani, salendo già la sera prima nella conca del Pra per trascorrere una serata insieme. L'immagine che ho di questi ultimi anni è quella di mio suocero e mio figlio che vanno su insieme. Generazioni che continuano a voler partecipare ad un incontro che rappresentava nel '33 qualcosa di significativo, ma che ancora oggi è più che attuale, come incontro al di là delle frontiere».Miriam Comba, giovane membro della chiesa valdese di Villar Pellice, partecipa da anni al culto al Colle della Croce «Ritrovarsi attorno ad un falò e cantare con l'accompagnamento di una chitarra è certamente un bel ricordo che rimane nel cuore».

Pacific St Blues & AmericanaJuly 16, 20231. Teresa James and the Rhythm Tramps / Everybody, Everybody 2. Dave Alvin & Peter Case / Monday Morning Blues (Blues for Avalon, Mississippi John Hurt)3. Bonnie Raitt / Blame It On Me 4. Norah Jones / Can You Believe5. Freddy King / Have You Ever Loved a Woman? 6. Eric Clapton / You Better Watch Yourself 7. Tedeschi Trucks Band / Bell Bottom Blues 8. Jimi Hendrix / Angel 9. John Lee Hooker w/ Los Lobos / Dimples 10. The Doors / Crawlin' King Snake 11. Howlin' Wolf / I'll Be Around 12. Etta James / I Got You Babe 13. Mose Allison / Young Man Blues 14. Ian Moore / Magic Bus 15. Los Lonely Boys / Send More Love 16. Marty Stuart / Lost Byrd Space Train 17. Joanne Shaw Taylor / Then There's You 18. Buddy Guy w/ Kid Rock / Messin' With the Kid 19. Larkin Poe / Holy Ghost Fire20. Shemekia Copeland, Robert Randolph, & Kenny Wayne Shepherd / Hit 'Em Back 21. The Fabulous Thunderbirds / Cherry Pink & Apple Blossom White Upcoming Shows & Events of InterestJuly 19 Little Feat & Leftover Salmon, Orpheum19 Chris Stapleton, The War & Treaty, Marty Stuart @ CHI Arena20 Ron Artis II, Jazz on the Green, Turner Park, Midtown21 Red Wanting Blue, Barnato (Village Pointe, Omaha)25 Tedeshi Trucks Band @ Pinewood Bowl (Lincoln)25 Madonna, Ball Arena, Denver27 Bobby Watson, Jazz on the Green, Turner Park, Midtown28 Diana Krall @ Holland28 Fargo Blues Fest Day #1 w/ Tommy Castro, Sugaray Rayford, Hector Anchondo28 Maha Music Festival29 Boz Scaggs & Keb Mo / Orpheum 29 Fargo Blues Fest Day #2 w/ GA 20, Blood Brothers (Mike Zito & Albert Castiglia) 29 Diana Krall @ Hoyt Sherman, Des Moines30 Keb Mo @ Hoyt Sherman, Des MoinesAugust 1 Rod Stewart, Mission Ballroom, Denver3 Chad Stoner, Jazz on the Green, Turner Park, Midtown4 New American Arts Festival, Benson area5 Gov't Mule / Stir Cove 5 In the Market for Blues (Toronzo Cannon, Hector Anchondo)9 Everclear, Barnato (Village Pointe, Omaha)10 Ana Popovic, Jazz on the Green, Turner Park, Midtown11 A.J. Croce / Admiral 11 Trombone Shorty, Mavis Staples, Robert Randolph & the Family Band, Ziggy Marley @ Pinewood Bowl (Lincoln) 11 Thorbjorn Risager & Black Tornado, Samatha Martin & Delta Sugar (Playing With Fire)12 Bywater Call, Joanne Shaw Taylor, Josh Hoyer & Soul Colossal, Blues Ed (Playing With Fire)14 Blues Traveler, Pinewood Bowl 15 Daryl Hall w/ Todd Rundgren, Orpheum Theatre20 Doobie Brothers, Pinewood Bowl27 Black Keys, Pinewood Bowl28 Bastard Sons of Johnny Cash, Barnato (Village Pointe, Omaha)31 - 9/4 Kris Lager's Ozark Festival, ArkansasSeptember7 Taj Mahal, Los Lobos, North Mississippi All Stars, Hoyt Sherman, Des Moines13 Rhiannon Giddens, Iowa City15-17 Telluride Blues Festival (Bonnie Raitt) 16 Beth Hart, The Astro (LaVista, Nebraska)October6 Tower of Power, Omaha16 Peter Gabriel, Ball Arena, DenverNovember  10m,  Aerosmith w/ Black CrowesUpcoming shows at the Hoyt Sherman in Des Moines include...July 19th, Ann WilsonJuly 29th, Diana KrallJuly 30th, Keb MoAug 4th, KansasAug 15th, The WallflowersAug 31st, Happy Together Tour Sept 8th, Herbie HancockSept 15th, MavericksSept 26th, Kenny Wayne ShepherdNov 5th, Steve Hackett (Genesis)Nov 15th, A.J. Croce

In questo episodio di PILLS abbiamo avuto il piacere di intervistare Croce Atroce, pilastro della scena drag milanese. Si è raccontata dagli inizi del Toilet Club al suo ultimo album "Queer Eleison". Ascoltate il podcast per saperne di più..

Umsjón: Lovísa Rut Lovísa Rut sá um Poppland dagsins. Plata vikunnar á sínum stað, platan 5 Songs For Swimming með Sunnu Margréti. Annars alls konar fjölbreytt tónlist að vanda, sálarhorn og þessar helstu tónlistarfréttir. EGILL SÆBJÖRNSSON - I Love You So. TV Girl - Birds Dont Sing. Hipsumhaps - Góðir hlutir gerast hææægt. SPRENGJUHÖLLIN - Verum í sambandi. STUÐMENN - Betri Tíð. STEELY DAN - Any Major Dude Will Tell You. KYLIE MINOGUE - Padam Padam. Descloux, Lizzy Mercier - Fire. KALEO - I Walk On Water. Sunna Margrét Þórisdóttir - Out of Breath. JAIN - Makeba. CELEBS - Bongó, blús & næs. 200.000 NAGLBÍTAR - Brjótum Það Sem Brotnar. Leifur Björnsson, Klemens Hannigan - Spend Some Time On Me Baby. WHITNEY HOUSTON - I Wanna Dance With Somebody (Who Loves Me). SILJA RÓS - ...Guess it would. HURTS - Stay. JEFF WHO? - Barfly. MUGISON - Stóra stóra ást. Bill Withers - Lovely Day. Dina Ögon - Oas. Margo & Mac - It's So Easy. DUSTY SPRINGFIELD - Spooky. JÚNÍUS MEYVANT - Let it pass. JALEN NGONDA - If You Don't Want My Love. SILK SONIC - Leave The Door Open. ELTON JOHN - Rocket Man (I Think It's Going To Be A Long Long Time). Sigur Rós - Gold. BJÖRK - Venus As A Boy. VÖK - Miss confidence. NANNA - Disaster master. LANGI SELI OG SKUGGARNIR - Hviss Bamm Búmm. OF MONSTERS & MEN - Little Talks. Una Torfadóttir - Það sýnir sig (Studio RUV). Kara Jackson - Pawnshop. Croce, Jim - Walkin' Back To Georgia. UNA TORFADÓTTIR - Það Sýnir Sig (Stúdíó RÚV). KARA JACKSON - Pawnshop. Jim Croce - Walkin? Back To Georgia. Sunna Margrét - When To Go. EMILÍANA TORRINI - To Be Free. HOT CHIP - Eleanor. INGI ÞÓR & KRÓLI - Þú. BEYONCÉ & KENDRICK LAMAR - AMERICA HAS A PROBLEM. JFDR - Life Man. ÁSGEIR - Leyndarmál.

In this week's episode of The Humane Marketing Show, we have the pleasure of speaking with Tom Greenwood about the concept of a Humane Web. Tom is the co-founder of Wholegrain Digital, a trailblazing digital agency that prioritizes sustainability as a Certified B Corp. Renowned for his expertise in business, design, and web technology's role in addressing environmental issues, Tom is also the author of the enlightening book, Sustainable Web Design. Throughout our thought-provoking conversation, we explore the meaning of a Humane Web, its connection to ethical design, and the crucial role website owners play in contributing to a more humane web. We delve into best practices for prioritizing user wellbeing while achieving marketing objectives, discuss the social and environmental impacts of AI, and highlight successful examples of organizations embracing the principles of the Humane Web. Tune in now to gain a fresh perspective on the future of digital marketing and web design. In this thought-provoking episode we discuss about: How Tom's newsletter readers described a humane web and what Tom's definition is What humane web has to do with ethical design Best practices for website owner to do their part to contribute to a Humane Web The winners of a humane web: humans AND the planet The social and environmental impacts of AI How Tom sees the future of humane web and much more [00:00:00] Sarah: Hello, humane marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non-pushy. [00:00:23] I'm Sarah z Croce, your hippie turn business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneer. Mama Bear of the Humane Marketing Circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you are ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like-minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what. [00:00:52] Works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like-minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a Zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a. [00:01:15] Sustainable way we share with transparency and vulnerability, what works for us and what doesn't work, so that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane.marketing/circle, and if you prefer one-on-one support from me. [00:01:37] My humane business coaching could be just what you need, whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big. Idea like writing a book. I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. [00:01:58] If you love this podcast, [00:02:00] wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one-on-one client can find out more at humane.marketing/coaching. And finally, if you are a Marketing Impact pioneer and would like to bring Humane Marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website@humane.marketing. [00:02:30] Hello, friends. Welcome back to another episode on the Humane Marketing Podcast. Today's conversation fits under the P of People of the Humane Marketing Mandala. If you're a regular here, you kind of already know what I'm talking about. And these are the seven Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. And if this is your first time here and you're curious about those seven Ps of humane marketing, you can go to humane.marketing/.[00:03:00] [00:03:00] One page, the number one and the word page, and download your one page marketing plan with the seven Ps of humane marketing. And this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different PS for your business. So today I'm speaking with Tom Greenwood about a humane Web. When I first saw him, uh, talk about this in one of his newsletters, I was like, well, I just have to talk to Tom, but before you, I tell you a bit more about Tom. [00:03:33] Allow me a moment to share that. I just. Open the doors again to my marketing like we're human, a k a, the Client Resonator program. So this is my flagship program. It's a three month program that is tightly linked actually to this podcast because it follows the same framework, the seven Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. [00:03:57] It's a deep dive into these seven [00:04:00] Ps to help you discover who you are. What your passion is and then bring more of you to your marketing. Market from within, so to speak. So we're really kind of flipping the script and starting with ourselves rather than the usual marketing program that immediately goes to your ideal client, the avatar, and then focuses on, uh, techniques and strategies. [00:04:26] We're starting with ourself first, so it's almost like a business. Or a personal development slash business development program. Uh, it's more than just marketing. It really is building the foundation for your life's work. And we start with passion, personal power, and then go into the outer. So we start with the inner and then go into the outer, the people, the product, the pricing, the promotion, and the partnership with others. [00:04:56] We go deep in an intimate group and. [00:05:00] Really come out transformed with a business that you are truly aligned with. It's a hybrid program with a 20 to 30 minute video to watch each week. Uh, that shares a bit of the framework, the principles. And a lot of, uh, transparent information and kind of lived experience for, from myself. [00:05:21] Uh, it comes also with a beautiful workbook, with journal prompts, and then we have a live group call on Zoom each week to go deeper. So we, I'm not teaching anything on these group calls. I we're just having the space together to go deeper, and that's why. It's such a transformational program because we really get to share and uh, and. [00:05:46] Yeah, make it unique for each person. Who is it for? Well, whether you have one year, five years, or more than 10 years business experience, it's never too late to go back to create the [00:06:00] foundation and is instead of just a business, really create your life's work so you can truly market from. Who you are because that's when things flow freely is when you market from who you are. [00:06:14] And the best is always to hear it from other participants and not just ha have it all from me. So have a look at humane.marketing/program. There are plenty of testimonials. And also a handful of in-depth case studies that really show you the transformation that people have gone through. Book a call with me now to discuss if this is the right next step for you at this point in your business. [00:06:43] Again, it's starting in August. Uh, August 24th. I'm only running this live. Twice per week. So this is the last time, uh, this year it's a three month program, and yes, I would absolutely love to talk to you and see and find out [00:07:00] whether this is a good fit for you at this time. Okay with that, back to the P of People in today's episode. [00:07:09] So Tom Greenwood is the co-founder of Whole Grain Digital, a certified B Corp and Green Trail Blazer. In the digital agency world, Tom is known for writing and speaking about how business design and web technology can be part of the solution. To end environmental issues and is the author of the book Sustainable Web Design. [00:07:34] So in this, uh, thought-provoking episode, we discussed how Tom's newsletter readers described a humane web and what Tom's definition is of a humane web. What humane web has to do with ethical design, ethical web design. Best practices for website owners to do their part, to contribute to a [00:08:00] humane web, the winners of a humane web, humans and the planet, the social en and environmental impacts of ai. [00:08:11] How Tom sees the future of Humane Web, and I guess also AI and so much more. Let's listen to Tom and this concept of a humane web, which to me just sounds delightful. Let's tune in. Hi Tom Sok. See you and hang out with you for a little while to talk all things humane, like I just said offline. Right. [00:08:38] That's basically what we're here for. I heard you talking about Humane Web and I'm like, I gotta have him on the podcast. You're [00:08:47] Tom: humane. Yeah. And I likewise. I was excited when you reached out and I was like, huh, humane Marketing, like, great. We're on the same page. Yeah, exactly. [00:08:55] Sarah: So the, the. The way. Well, I've been on your email list [00:09:00] for a while, and then obviously when I saw you talking and actually asking readers about how a humane web would look like to them, uh, that's when you got my attention and I'm like, yeah, let's talk about this. [00:09:16] So I'm curious, um, what kind of answers did you get to this question when you asked your readers? [00:09:23] Tom: Yeah, it was really interesting and it, I mean, we got a lot of enthusiastic responses and it was, it was quite mixed. It sort of ranged from people talking about how um, basically like technology should be designed to like, respect humans in terms of like their privacy and their safety and, um, to make things more accessible in a sort of tangible ways to people with kind of maybe like a more like pie in the sky vision of like, A web that is like more personalized and it's actually like, like more like fragmented and [00:10:00] decentralized rather than this sort of like homogenized big tech kind of internet that, that we've come to. [00:10:07] Um, and then other people talking about like more like the experience that we have as humans and that actually, what if it was more. You know, like a garden that you can, or a library, like a place that you can kind of step into and browse calmly, slowly, mindfully relax into like find beauty and inspiration rather than it being like this high paced kind of intense experience that much of, much of the internet's become. [00:10:39] So it was really interesting just hearing kind of like that breadth of. Perspectives on like what that might mean. [00:10:45] Sarah: Hmm. Yeah. So interesting. I, I love this image of either the library or the the garden and why not a library in a garden. Exactly. Yeah. That'd be even better. So what that means to me is, yeah, you, [00:11:00] you said it after like what we're experiencing is something so intense and probably, um, Yeah. [00:11:09] It's more like the in our face experience where if you are going to a library, you are the one in control. You are the one who's going to look for information rather than just showing up and everybody's throwing information at you. Right. Is is that also what you Yeah. Exactly. Felt [00:11:25] Tom: that's what happened? [00:11:26] Yeah. Mm-hmm. That, that you are really in control of your own journey and, and it's your experience. For you to have and for you to lead rather than mm-hmm. You're kind of entering into these worlds where you're very much kind of led down a path. I mean, at best guided down a path at worst manipulated, you know, to perform certain actions. [00:11:48] Um, Yeah. And sort of, yeah, put people back in the driving seat in control of their own experience, um, in more of a conscious way. [00:11:56] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. That's so much aligned with humane marketing [00:12:00] because it, it, in the end, pretty much everything on the web is some type of marketing now, you know? Yeah. It's like wherever you go, You, they want you to enter into a funnel and then basically control your mind and control everything you do. [00:12:16] So it's, yeah, it's, it's very much the same in terms of humane marketing. It's like, well in, give the power back to the people. Right? Yeah. And it seems like that's the same, uh, idea here on, on Humane Web. So, so was that also your definition if you thought of it before? Or did you think of even something else, um, that you can add here? [00:12:41] Tom: Yeah, I think, I think it was a, a mixture of a mixture of things, but I think, I mean, the whole exploration and, and it's still an exploration to be honest at this stage, but the whole exploration that, that some of us at Whole Grain are doing into this concept of a humane web really came from sort of a [00:13:00] frustration that the internet kind of in the early days, Did seem like something that was gonna be very democratic and, you know, allow people to have a voice and controller and experience and share information with each other and build communities and, and it has all of that potential. [00:13:21] And yet more and more it feels like this thing where it's like it's, it's very much like a domain controlled by these big tech companies and where. You know, as you say, like we're we're manipulated into these funnels. It's like it's the web has become a web of funnels. Yeah. And, you know, and, and you enter into it kind of almost at your own risk. [00:13:41] And, and it's not an equal relationship. You're very much like you're going in on their terms. They're doing things behind the scenes to manipulate you that you don't even, you're not even aware of. There's like legal terms that you're effectively agreeing to just by. Like visiting a site or [00:14:00] using an online service. [00:14:01] Um, and then, and then, and then it's like, you know, there's the, also the fallout of like mental health and the fact that actually like, yeah, the internet should be serving us as humans, and yet you have this like, huge mental health crisis that's in par related to our relationship with digital technology and the internet. [00:14:19] And, and it's like, well, something's really wrong here that it's. There are like big corporations that are making vast profits out of the web, but at the same time that it's not that there's not any good things have come from it for, you know, most of us, like we all get some benefit from it day to day, but like on some level it feels like this is, this relationship isn't working like it's unhealthy. [00:14:42] Um, so what would it look like if we reimagine that and said, well, okay, let's kind of go back to the beginning. Take all of the. I guess take capitalism out of it for a minute and sort of say, well, like, let's just look at it as a technology. Like [00:14:58] Sarah: what? Remind me, Tom, [00:15:00] what was the name of the, it's escaping me right now. [00:15:03] Like when it first started, what did they call it? Um, Some term that I'm, I'm forgetting right now, but they actually said it, it's a conversation, you know, the web is a conversation. Um, yeah. So, so really, yeah. That's what you're saying. We need to go back to, right. To, to these early days of the [00:15:24] Tom: internet. [00:15:24] Exactly, exactly. Sort of like today's technology, but with yesterday's principles maybe. Yeah, [00:15:32] Sarah: yeah. Yeah. So much so. Yeah, so true. It's, it's, it's almost like we've. Made such a big, yeah, we lost our way. We lost our way. It's, it's kind of like kids who are given, you know, the, the, the gadget and then they just like lose their way because they're so excited about this s gadget and all, all the things you can do with it, and it ends up going the wrong way. [00:15:58] It ends up [00:16:00] going to almost like, Evil. Right? That's what we've done with this technology and, and or we, we can discuss whether it's you and I, it's definitely the, you know, the, there's always money behind it somehow now. Yeah. Where that was not the intent of, uh, the internet back in the days. [00:16:18] Tom: Yeah. I think that's the thing that it's, there's, there's so much potential to make money by manipulating people that. [00:16:27] In a way that you can't really do as easily in a physical environment. You know, like, you, like digital technology can kind of capture people for like, most of their waking hours. You know, like it's very addictive. You've got your phone with you like all the time. Um, it can ping you and like, you know, pull your attention back in when you start ignoring it in a way that like the physical world can't. [00:16:49] And yeah. And likewise, it's very easy to do like sneaky things in terms of how you. How you manipulate people to perform certain actions or to think a certain [00:17:00] way in ways that if you were in a physical environment, would be a bit more like, I, I think just a bit more tangible for people to sort of see what's going on and think, Hmm, this doesn't feel quite right. [00:17:10] I'm not sure I wanna shop here. Um, right. Um, You know, and even things like privacy terms, you know, that you kind of get sort of forced to like click a button to say like, I agree before you come in. But there's some like giant legal contract behind it that they know that nobody's gonna read. Whereas if you went into a shop, you enter the supermarket and they said, well, before you enter, like, please sign this 30 page contract. [00:17:32] Yeah. You'd probably be like, nah, I, I'm not, I'm not gonna shop there. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go to the green grass. It's, you think about, it's insane. Yeah. Yeah. It is and it's very one-sided. It's sort of like, sign this or you can't come in. Um mm-hmm. So [00:17:47] Sarah: what's the solution? You're working on a solution? Um, what [00:17:53] Tom: is it? [00:17:53] Well, to say we're working on a solution might be overstating it, but we're exploring what [00:18:00] alternatives might look like and I think, I think there are. Like, none of this is like necessary, you know, like we talked about kind of the early days of the web when it wasn't like this on the web. I think the early, you know, pioneers of the web, like Tim Burners, Lee didn't envision it becoming like this. [00:18:17] No. Um, so I think inherently like the principal. Is that you could design and build digital services that don't treat people in this way. And start by actually thinking about like, how you serve their needs. What, what's really gonna be good for them as humans. And do it on the principle like you would've done like any kind of good business in the past where it's like, if we really serve people well, they'll keep coming back rather than if we, if we manipulate them and get 'em addicted. [00:18:49] Um, Then they'll keep coming back. Um, and I do think like there's some challenges in that for certain types of business models where the business models are [00:19:00] inherently based on that principle. Um, you know, some of the social media giants for example. It's like that's I. That's what they're built upon. But on the other hand, I think the vision we're trying to create is that if we actually created beautiful online spaces that treat people well and that they love being in and where they can build real, meaningful connections with other human beings or, or have space to just explore and learn things and, and enjoy things kind of on their own terms that. [00:19:30] Okay. They might not necessarily like, be able to compete head to head with, like Facebook for example. Um, on, but they're not trying to compete directly with Facebook. They're giving people an alternative. They're giving people a choice. It's like, go, you know, go and spend your time here because it respects you and it's a great place to be rather than go over there where you're being exploited. [00:19:49] Um, so yeah, it's so like we are, we are not, I don't think we're ever gonna be, be in a position where we can say, look, hey, look, we've got this solution, but I think we can let help with that [00:20:00] conversation of exploring the principles and trying to embed them into some of our own work and trying to like, You know, experiment with them and see what works and see what doesn't. [00:20:08] Sarah: And don't you think the change is gonna come from bottom up? Uh, not from the big ones. You know that they're not gonna change anything because their model works. It's exactly, it's not scarcity, uh, and addiction like you said. And so why would they change anything? Because the money keeps coming in. So they're not the ones who are going to change. [00:20:28] It's, it's the smaller ones and also, Us, the clients, the customers who are just fed up, uh, with being abused and manipulated. [00:20:38] Tom: Yeah, exactly. It's like the big tech companies have nothing. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose by, like, doing things in a more humane way, I think, which is really sad. [00:20:48] And I think it's a kind of, probably a reflection more of the broader mm-hmm. Structure of our society and economy. Um, but equally like we have a, we do have a lot of [00:21:00] personal. Like power over our own destiny. Like we're not actually like hooked into any of these things. Like we can choose to go wherever we want on the internet. [00:21:07] And um, and I think if people offer really humane alternatives, then hopefully, like a growing kind of number of people will start looking at those and thinking, yeah, okay, this feels like a better place to be. Totally. [00:21:24] Sarah: And, and I think what I've actually seen in the marketing world is that, Even small, uh, companies, one person companies, entrepreneurs, since the only models we had were the big. [00:21:39] Tech companies and the, you know, the, the ones that are basically manipulating everybody. This became the going model. Yeah. Everybody started using, even on the very small business level, using the same kind of, uh, you know, scarcity and, and manipulative approaches. Yeah. So over the last 20 years, um, [00:22:00] This just became the norm, right? [00:22:02] That, yeah, it was just a given. If you were in business, that's the way you had to market and, and, and use technology and, and, and all that and all actually all the tech that I'm using in my business, you know, where I'm trying so hard to create a humane business, the tech, uh, so I'm talking like shopping carts or, or e-learning programs. [00:22:26] It's all built on non-human, uh, principles. Yeah. It's all built on the idea. Let's get as many people in and seldom our crap. Yeah. [00:22:37] Tom: Basically. [00:22:38] Sarah: And it, and it's just really hard to actually use technology and yet doing in a, doing it in a humane way. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's really, really hard. [00:22:49] Tom: I think one of the sort of, I guess sort of classically, one of the. [00:22:54] The, the alternatives to that kind of hyper commercial model has in the, in the digital [00:23:00] space, has been the open source world, which is mm-hmm. You know, people building things with people for the people, um, and largely giving them away for free so that everybody can benefit from them. And I think that is probably where, like the solutions will come from. [00:23:15] Um, I understand. Mm-hmm. But, but as you sort of. Highlighted, like even some of those things have gone more in that kind of commercial direction just because that's the way things are done and, and some of those open source projects, as brilliant as they might be, have some sort of like commercial affiliation that sort of funds some of that community work. [00:23:36] And so the way that the projects are led has a bias towards like feeding that like kind of. Parent company or, um, whatever it might be, right? But, but I do think like that the, in pr in principle, the sort of the open source world is probably like the best, um, [00:24:00] place to, to get like a groundswell of, um, kind of bottom up change. [00:24:07] Sarah: I agree. Because it's also. You know, it's the people with the same values who come to create the solution and just give and, you know, know and trust and somewhere the money will come from. Yeah. But it doesn't mean that I have to exploit, um, uh, clients or, or potential, uh, customers. Yeah, [00:24:27] Tom: exactly. Yeah. [00:24:29] Sarah: So, so far we've talked about basically, uh, the win-win of the, the client and the seller, right? [00:24:38] Um, What I talk about and also what you were talking about is also, uh, a third win, which is the win for the planet. Yeah. Um, so talk to us how a humane web, and then maybe you can also talk a little bit about, um, web design, because that's also, uh, part of your expertise. Where is the [00:25:00] planet stand right now and how do we make it a winner as well in this [00:25:06] Tom: equation? [00:25:07] Yeah. So the, the environmental aspect is uh, something that's sort of, I think been left out of the conversation in the digital world largely until quite recently. And, and I think that's probably for a variety of reasons, partly because digital technology is relative relatively new in terms of its impact on our lives. [00:25:28] Um, but also because a lot of the environmental impact is sort of out of sight and out of mind. Um, You don't have like a chimney or an exhaust pipe on your computer and you know, it's sort of, it, it's a lot of, it's behind the scenes and we use terms like virtual, um, and the cloud as if like, the internet doesn't really exist, but it, it is a huge physical system. [00:25:52] You know, telecoms, networks that span the entire planet, um, satellites in space, like thousands of huge data [00:26:00] centers around the world. Billions of devices connected to the networks. So, If you take it as one big machine, it is the biggest machine that humans have ever created. And, and it consumes a huge amount of electricity. [00:26:13] You know, roughly the amount of electricity is the whole of the United Kingdom. Um, if you took it as one thing and the United Kingdom is like kind of one of the 10 biggest economies in the world. So that's, that's pretty crazy when you think about it. And. When you, uh, when you put that in terms of carbon emissions, which is essentially the emissions of producing all of that energy, um, it's, it's estimated generally somewhere between two and 4% of global carbon emissions, which is a lot because like aviation, which a lot of people think, you know, aviation's a serious problem, which it is. [00:26:49] Aviation is about 2% of global cognitions. Global shipping is about 2%. Um, I think steel is about, steel production is about 7%. So when you put, [00:27:00] you know, put that in context of basically the internet being somewhere in the range of two to 4%, um, and growing rapidly, especially with like the advent of, of, of AI and machine learning. [00:27:10] Um, it's, it's something that needs to be talked about. Um, and it hasn't really been talked about much until like the last two, three years really. Yeah, that's [00:27:25] Sarah: completely how I feel. I feel like this has just, yeah, probably emerged. Three years ago for me, where before I was like, well, I'm a virtual, you know, business owner, so I don't create any, any kind of problems. [00:27:40] And, and then starting to realize, okay, so, you know, there's all these different players that actually do, uh, impact how much carbon emissions I have. And, and you know, this was a, a whole. Transitions switching to, uh, a green or a greener host and, [00:28:00] and like making my website lighter and still working on that. [00:28:03] It's, it's like things that. You never think about just uploading, you know, two megabyte pictures on your website. Yeah. And then when you start to realize, wait a minute, they have to be hosted somewhere. And the, uh, and the server obviously runs on electricity, so every time you know this, this is creating carbon emissions. [00:28:24] So, so yeah. Tell us about ethical, um, you know, web design. Like what, what does that. Kind of just maybe a few really pragmatic tips that people can do right now to Yeah. Work on their website on, or at least become aware of that. Yeah. [00:28:44] Tom: You mean specifically from the environmental perspective? Yeah. Mm-hmm. [00:28:47] Yeah. So I mean, I think the, the, the way I find most helpful to think about it is that there's, there's a lot of waste on the internet. Um, And waste isn't good for [00:29:00] anybody, like any form of waste. And, but specifically in the internet, that waste generally is if you're wasting data, then you're wasting, you're wasting energy, um, which is bad for the environment, but it also has other. [00:29:14] Kind of commercial impacts and user experience impacts and so on. But that waste can come in a number of forms. Like first of all, like you just mentioned, you know, like having files that are just unnecessarily large, like image files, video files that are either like, maybe they're not required at all, but even if they are required, maybe they're, um, which is larger than they need to be, maybe they're, um, they're not optimized well, maybe they're not in like the most efficient file format. [00:29:42] Um, so. Looking at things like that. Um, things like tracking scripts. Tracking scripts can like be more, they can use up more data sometimes than like an entire, the actual webpage that you see. The stuff behind the scenes. And this comes into like the humane aspect as well. [00:30:00] The stuff behind the scenes that's like harvesting all of your data. [00:30:02] Um, they can actually be more code in there than there is in the actual, like, visible webpage that you're viewing. [00:30:09] Sarah: So you mean like Facebook pixel tracking, that kind of stuff. [00:30:13] Tom: Yeah. All that kind of stuff. All that kind of like ad personalizations, advert, you know, advertising scripts and mm-hmm. Things like that. [00:30:20] Um, wow. And the, and, and, and that's, I, I think that's kind of an interesting one to think about because it's, It's using energy in a number of places and not for your benefit. So you've got basically, like the advertising scripts have to be stored somewhere, like in a data center. Then they have to be sent over the internet, which uses energy to get to you. [00:30:43] Um, then they use energy on your device, which is your electricity that you paid for, um, to like spy on you or manipulate you by like, you know, manipulating the content. Um, and then they take the data, they. They've, they've [00:31:00] harvested about you and then use more energy to ship it back over the internet where it gets stored and analyzed in a data center. [00:31:06] Um, so, so like things like that where there's like, I mean things like that. There's a, there's a, there's a, there's a relationship between the environmental and there's like human aspect. But I think if you're designing something, actually being really mindful about tracking scripts is really important. [00:31:22] Cuz sometimes a lot of websites aren't even necessarily doing it. For good reasons. It's just like, oh, I've got a website so I'll stick Google Analytics on it. Um, and Google's really benefiting from that by getting all of that data. But you might not even, some people don't even really look at that data. [00:31:37] So I think things like that are good to think about. Also, from the environmental point of view, like where you host your website, you mentioned moving your website to a hosting provider that has a commitment to powering their data centers with renewable energy. That's kind of a. I'm not gonna say it's an easy win because depends whether like [00:32:00] how easy you find it to actually migrate your website, but um, usually they really help you with that. [00:32:04] Yeah, they normally it will help you like at do the migration. So it can be, it can be a low hanging fruit to reduce the environmental impact. Um, and I think just from a content creation point of view, just sort of being mindful about, um, like creating. Easy user journeys for people so they can find what they're looking for easily not creating unnecessary content, um, just for the sake of like search engines, for example, but actually making sure that your content is really tailored to humans and, and, and you're not doing things like putting in images of like just, um, like stock photography of people pointing at a whiteboard because you feel like you need to fill a space on the page. [00:32:47] You know, just be really mindful about. Like justifying the existence of everything. Um, if you can justify why it's there, then, you know, great. Um, but if you can't, then, um, obviously if [00:33:00] in doubt, leave it out. Um, it's sort of a simple mantra to the identifying and eliminating waste. [00:33:08] Sarah: It's so interesting because basically also here you're saying, let's go back to simplicity and, and basics and. [00:33:15] You know, simple design rather than cluttered, obnoxious, you know, too much content design. [00:33:22] Tom: Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think that's e just sort of, again, going back to the human perspective, that can be much easier on the mind as well. Yeah. Um, it's [00:33:31] Sarah: relaxing. It's more relaxing, right. Than Yeah. Having much content [00:33:37] Tom: on it all the, all the time. [00:33:38] Exactly. I think, you know, there's a lot of problems with just sort of overstimulation, um, On the internet. So, so I think that there's a, again, another synergy between sort of designing for the environment and designing for humans there. [00:33:52] Sarah: Yeah. You, uh, just a minute ago, you, you kind of addressed ai, uh, [00:34:00] And, and I, um, there's another great article that you actually published with a conversation between you and chat c p t about, um, the impact of ai, uh, to the environment and, and social, uh, impact and all of that. [00:34:17] Um, yeah, tell us a little bit about that. Uh, in, in, just in general, how AI impacts all of what we just [00:34:26] Tom: discussed. Yeah, so I, it was, I thought it would be really interesting just to sort of a ask an AI about the potential risks of AI and see, to see what it came back with. Um, I thought maybe I'll learn something, maybe it would teach me something. [00:34:44] I don't know. Um, maybe it will be biased. Um, um, I was actually like sort of pleasantly surprised that its answers seemed quite thorough and quite. Quite honest, um, in identifying that there is [00:35:00] like potentially a huge energy cost to AI in terms of just how much computing, um, power it needs, um, both to train the models and run the models. [00:35:11] Um, I think it gave me a figure of to train G P D three required, I think 500. CPU years, which is effectively like running a cpu, running a, running a computer for 500 years to train one model. Um, so it was, it was quite honest in, in that it did also highlight that there's potential benefits, um, from an environmental point of view. [00:35:33] If you can use that AI then to help humanity solve. Environmental problems and make other things more efficient, which I think is absolutely true. Um, but it also highlighted that the flip side of that is that it's all about what we choose to do with it. Like you could choose to use AI to like, to, to extract more fossil fuels from, from the ground, which is what the fossil fuel companies are using it for. [00:35:57] Um, and in fact, there was a big conference, I [00:36:00] think run by Amazon. Um, Specifically about that, like inviting all the fossil fuel companies to, to see what, how they could, how they could like, fi, discover and extract more oil. Um, wow. So, so that, that's kind of interesting that it, it like chat, G B T itself highlighted that. [00:36:19] Um, but then it also, like I asked it about sort of social impacts and it did, it did sort of, Quite honestly, like, explain that like, yeah, there's potential risk to people's jobs, um, in terms of being replaced by ai. There's risks of bias. There's risks of, um, big temp big tech companies, um, having more and more power because essentially like whoever has control of the AI has more power over a society and the, and the potential to like manipulate public opinion and, and potentially even influence democracy, which is something that it did. [00:36:57] Bring up. So, um, [00:37:00] yeah, I think it was quite well rounded I felt, in terms of what it highlighted. And of course, it's not really a, it's not a person. And that's the thing that it's like really hard to like get your head around when you start doing something, like trying to have a conversation with it. It's like, well, hard to like [00:37:13] Sarah: it or dislike it, you know? [00:37:15] Yeah, [00:37:16] Tom: right. I've, I've set myself a rule that I'm like, when if I did, you know, like when I did that, To not say thank you cause it sounds really simple, but as soon as, but you ask a question and you get an answer back that sounds like a human wrote you a message back. Right. And it's really easy to slip into that thing of thinking there's a person on the other side when there's not. [00:37:37] Um, and I don't know if you've seen the film X Mcna. Um, I haven't. It, it's, it, I mean, I think it's, I only watched it earlier this year because it sort of felt like this is the time in history where, The science fiction is suddenly catching up. Yeah. Like, like real life is mirroring science fiction and [00:38:00] Yeah. [00:38:00] It's, it's a film about, and like an, an AI that's been developed and um, and humans building relationships with it and the, and the boundaries between what's human and what's not being blurred and how that. That's a slippery slope, basically. Um, I won't spoil it for you, but Okay. But I, yeah, it's a, i I, it's a, it's a fascinating and very well made film, um, on this topic. [00:38:30] Yeah, [00:38:31] Sarah: I'll look it up and I'll definitely link to, to that article, the interview with, um, chat G p t, um, as we're kind of. Coming to close here. I I'm, I'm just, I always feel like, oh, so it's such a heavy topic. Right? And, um, when we started recording, um, offline, I told you I tried just to focus on the positive things. [00:38:58] So let's, let's do that [00:39:00] here as well. How do you see the future of Humane Web and, and what can we do to, you know, kind of counter effect the big tech and. The big companies and, and even if it's just in our own little bubble, but at least we're creating that vision and who knows what will come out of it, but at least we're living in that vision already. [00:39:25] What can we do? And, and then Yeah. Uh, from there, how do you see it evolve? Yeah, [00:39:30] Tom: sure. I, I think the main thing we can do is first, first of all, like stop and think about like what we. What we need as humans and how the technology can serve us, rather than the standard model now, which is sort of like, how do, how do we serve the technology? [00:39:49] Um, and you, you know, you spoke about it earlier about how. We go down this route of like, now there's like an established model of like how the [00:40:00] internet works and how the business models on the internet work being like those big tech companies. And so there's just a natural inclination to mirror that and just copy it. [00:40:10] And I think the, the best thing we can do is actually just stop and think, look inside ourselves about like, what would it look like if it was really serving my needs and serving the needs of of others. And actually just have the confidence to try to do things differently and not just copy the, kind of the standard template of how things are done these days. [00:40:32] Um, and I think if more and more people do that and. And importantly, more and more people share that and tell the story of how they're thinking about it and why they're doing things differently. Um, I think that's really powerful cuz then it can create that sort of like ground up change. Um, both in the, the way that people are thinking about the internet as well as the way that people are interacting with it. [00:40:58] Sarah: Yeah, 100%. [00:41:00] And, and that's definitely what we're trying to do here, and I know you are as well, and, and. You might think, because what we're seeing is the big tech everywhere, right? Mm-hmm. But the more you kind of are in these circles, the more other little circles you discover and you're like, wow, there's actually people like us everywhere. [00:41:21] Yeah, exactly. So that always gives me hope. I'm like, well, two years ago I didn't know about Tom Greenwood, and now I know that you've been working on this for years and years, and so. You know, there's, there's millions of us and that, that gives me hope. So I, I, uh, I couldn't agree more with you to just kind of. [00:41:41] You said stop and, um, kind of step into the confidence of doing things differently. And I think yeah, that is key because it is scary to, you know, not do what everybody else is doing. Um, So, yeah, if, even if it's just, you know, for your website, [00:42:00] and that's where again, uh, I'm gonna go back to my website and, and check that I don't have any kind of tracking code in there because Yeah. [00:42:08] I, I don't need it. Right. So, um, definitely, uh, yeah, [00:42:13] Tom: to start exactly, start from where you are and, and, and ask yourself questions about like, what it is that you are doing. If you are creating things on the internet, um, and. And just see where it, see where it leads, see what other people are doing. Yeah. Um, I mean, even on the tracking script one, like there are alternatives. [00:42:32] Like there's one called Plausible, for example, um, which is like, it gives you some data about how, like how many people are using your website, what, like what countries they come from, what web browsers they use, what pages they visit. But it is completely anonymized. It's very, very lightweight, energy efficient. [00:42:51] Um, Script. So there are some like kind of, there are alternatives to some of these like big tech [00:43:00] solutions that are actually trying to balance the sort of the human and the environmental side as well as providing some useful functionality it for when people do need it. Um, yeah. So yeah, it's worth looking for those as well. [00:43:12] Thank [00:43:13] Sarah: you. I, I would really encourage listeners also to sign up to your newsletter, so please share with us where people can find you and your newsletter and all your other good work. [00:43:24] Tom: Yeah, sure. So the newsletter, I'm, I'm very excited. This, um, just past 6,000 subscribers yesterday. Um, it's, it's called Kii Green. [00:43:34] Um, if you Google Kii Green Newsletter, you, you should find it. Um, and, and it's basically a monthly newsletter about like, Greening the internet, um, but in a very holistic way. So, you know, we talk about things like humane web as well. Um, and we started it about three years ago thinking that nobody would be interested. [00:43:53] So to suddenly like now be like, oh wow, there's like 6,000 people subscribe to this. That for me is like a source of optimism. [00:44:00] Um, again, that that [00:44:01] Sarah: means that there's all these people everywhere, right? And saying, yeah, me too. I'm in. [00:44:06] Tom: Exactly. Mm-hmm. Exactly. The, the, like, I think sometimes we. We don't realize that there's a lot of people out there that are thinking like we are thinking, or, or maybe they're thinking differently from we're thinking, but they're like, they really care about making things better. [00:44:20] Um, and we just don't know that they're out, they're out there. Um, right. So when we have things that kind of bring these voices together, I think that's really powerful. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, so the Curiously Green Newsletter, um, I mean, you can find me on LinkedIn, that's Tom Greenwood who runs Whole Grain Digital. [00:44:36] There's lots of Tom Greenwoods, but I'm, I'm, I'm that one. Um, And I also have a, um, I also have a, a personal newsletter about sustainable business on CK called Oxymoron, um, which you can look up on ck Um, yeah, so I guess they're the. They're, they're the key places to find me. And you have a book, right? I do have a book, yeah. [00:44:59] Yeah. I always [00:45:00] forget to mention that. Yeah. There you go. So I always have a book, um, about sustainable web design called Sustainable Web Design. Um, you can, you can get it direct from publisher, uh, which is a book apart.com, or it's now available as of about two weeks ago in a lot of bookshops. Um, so you could find it on Amazon and other kind of online bookstores as well. [00:45:22] Sarah: Wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing that. I always ask one last question here to every, uh, guest, and that is, what are you grateful for today, this week, this season? [00:45:36] Tom: To be honest, I, I am grateful for the fact that like we live in a world where we can have these sorts of conversations. You know, like we have the freedom to think and, and share ideas and, you know, even if not everything is. [00:45:52] Perfect. And not everything's always trending in the direction we wanted to. Like the fact that we have the opportunity to try and like do [00:46:00] something about it and connect with, with other people. Trying to do so is, is, is a wonderful thing, um, which I'm very grateful for. [00:46:09] Sarah: Yeah. I agree and I'm grateful for the work you are doing and and your team, so [00:46:17] Tom: thank you. [00:46:17] Sarah: Let's keep it up. Yep. So much. Thanks so much for being here, Tom. I hope you feel motivated and I. Inspired to create a humane web together. I highly recommend you sign up to Tom's newsletter. You'll find that@wholegraindigital.com. You can also, as Tom suggested to connect with him on LinkedIn. You find the show notes of this episode@humane.marketing slash 1 67, and on this beautiful page, you'll also find a series of free offers, such as my Saturday newsletter, the Humane Business Business Manifesto, [00:47:00] and the free gentle confidence mini course, as well as my two books, marketing like we're Human and Selling like we're human. [00:47:08] Thanks so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares for yourself, your clients, and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers, so go be the change you want to see in the world. Speak soon.

Le opinioni sull'argomento sono contrastanti, ma secondo una nuova ricerca di Headspace, in Australia, un giovane su tre ha un rapporto problematico con i social media.

Umsjón: Siggi Gunnars & Lovísa Rut Lovísa Rut sáu um Poppland dagsins. Plata vikunnar, Þú sem Ljóslega Hvergi Ert með Ívari Bjarklind. Annars alls konar fjölbreytt tónlist að vanda og þessar helstu tónlistarfréttir á sínum stað. KLEMENS HANNIGAN - Never Loved Someone So Much. TRAVIS - Sing. Thomas Stenström - Andas in andas ut. Grýlurnar - Valur og jarðaberjamaukið hans. A Flock Of Seagulls - I Ran (So Far Away). Stuðmenn - Út í veður og vind. HARRY STYLES - As It Was. NÝDÖNSK - Klæddu Þig. ROMY - Enjoy Your Life. BEVERLY ANN-COPELAND - La Vita. GUSTAPH - Because Of You (Belgía Eurovision 2023). DILJÁ - Crazy. SIGRÚN STELLA - My Crazy Heart. Kara Jackson - Pawnshop. BRONSKI BEAT - Smalltown boy. GDRN - Parísarhjól. LENNY KRAVITZ - Believe. FLOTT - L'amour. SISTER SLEDGE - He's the greatest dancer. MACY GRAY - I Try. DEATH CAB FOR CUTIE - Pepper. Helgi Björnsson - Besta útgáfan af mér. JALEN NGONDA - If You Don't Want My Love. JUNGLE - Dominoes. SILKIKETTIRNIR - Ekki vera viss. JFDR - Life Man. ÁSGEIR TRAUSTI - Dýrð í dauðaþögn. Miley Cyrus - Jaded. CEASE TONE, RAKEL & JÓIPÉ - Ég var að spá. KYLIE MINOGUE - Padam Padam. DUA LIPA - Dance The Night. DANIIL & FRIÐRIK DÓR - ALEINN. EMILÍANA TORRINI - Big Jumps. SUGARCUBES - Walkabout. VÖK - Headlights. Lauryn Hill - Can't Take My Eyes Off You. Ívar Bjarklind - Enginn vex anginn. Mitchell, Joni - California. Kara Jackson - Pawnshop. BOB DYLAN - Lay Lady Lay. Fenne Lily - Lights Light Up. Croce, Jim - Operator. Snorri Helgason - Gerum Það Besta. THE KILLERS - Mr. Brighside.

TESTO DELL'ARTICOLO ➜ https://www.bastabugie.it/it/articoli.php?id=7468DON CAMILLO DIFENDE LE CROCI IN CIMA ALLE MONTAGNE di Lorenzo BertocchiDalle finestre del tinello don Camillo aveva un meraviglioso panorama sulle cime, ma quella mattina all'orizzonte mancava qualcosa. Non aveva ancora finito di raccapezzarsi sulla faccenda paesaggistica che arrivò come un fulmine lo Sparalesto, in compagnia del presidente della Pro Loco.In nome dell'ambiente, il gruppo "Spirito libero in libera natura" aveva ottenuto dal comune il permesso di abbattere la Croce di vetta che era lì da duecento anni.Don Camillo fece irruzione nell'ufficio della nota assessora alla cultura e, mani sui fianchi, la guardò come si guarda un abusivo che scaccia di casa il padrone. Ma l'assessora era un osso duro.«Si calmi e non ne faccia una questione integralista», disse, «noi pensiamo che i frequentatori della nostra vetta più alta debbano avere la possibilità di attribuire liberamente alle loro esperienze in montagna i valori che sentono più affini. Senza alcun inquinamento prevaricatore. Lo diciamo anche per una questione di libera lode alla natura, senza preconfezionamenti».Il povero parroco, di fronte a un tale sfoggio di cultura, rimase per un momento al tappeto. E pensò che l'assessora colpiva molto più duro del vecchio Peppone.Uscito dal palazzo comunale don Camillo ebbe un'altra notizia da knock-out, i talebani dell'ambiente libero non si erano limitati a togliere la vecchia Croce di vetta, ma al suo posto avevano posizionato un monumento al libero pensatore che, pensoso, avrebbe atteso lo scalatore per dargli un vago senso di conquista della cima. Il vaso era colmo e al nostro parroco di crinale non rimase che andare dal Crocifisso dell'altar maggiore.«Signore, qui la vogliono sfrattare da casa sua».«Non preoccuparti don Camillo, ci sono abituato, sono salito sulla Croce per questo. Tu continua a salire la tua strada e non perdere di vista la meta».E fu sera, e fu mattina. Il giorno dopo verso mezzogiorno in piazza non si parlava d'altro, tutti a guardare la vetta. Nottetempo qualcuno, di fianco al libero pensatore, aveva piantato tre metri di Croce con su scritto In hoc signo vinces. Qualcuno gridava al miracolo. Quelli dello "spirito libero" erano già pronti a salire in vetta con l'assessora che voleva vedere con i suoi occhi. Don Camillo si rese subito disponibile per accompagnarli.Durante la salita raggiunsero il vecchio Paolino, che ogni anno in quaresima saliva alla Croce di vetta per lasciare un fiore. Era solo da anni, aveva perso in un colpo la moglie e il giovane figliolo, assassinati all'epoca della linea gotica.«Buongiorno reverendo, venite anche voi alla Croce?», domandò Paolino.«Andiamo a vedere chi ha rimesso la Croce in vetta, visto che questi signori l'avevano tolta per far posto ai pensatori».«Ma la Croce è sempre rimasta al suo posto», rispose Paolino, «da casa mia non ho mai smesso di vederla».Tutti conoscevano il vecchio Paolino e a qualcuno la storia del miracolo cominciava a far sudare freddo. A togliere tutti dall'impaccio pensò don Camillo: «Cari liberi pensatori, spesso solo un cammino molto accidentato può condurre a Dio, un cammino che solo nella Croce trova significato. Allora si sale per la strada giusta. Chi nel proprio cammino non vede più la Croce, allora è segno che è fuori strada. Ma si può sempre tornare sulla retta via e vedere così riapparire all'orizzonte il Segno della vera libertà». La comitiva girò i tacchi e scese a valle. Dal tinello di don Camillo il panorama era tornato a posto.Nota di BastaBugie: Ermes Dovico nell'articolo seguente dal titolo "Il Cai, le croci e le montagne (che ci parlano di Dio)" commenta la vicenda del portale il Club Alpino Italiano che prima disapprova l'installazione di nuove croci sulle vette, poi fa un parziale dietrofront, ma la toppa è peggiore del buco. All'origine, il mancato riconoscimento della meta eterna a cui la Croce e le stesse montagne ci richiamano.Ecco l'articolo completo pubblicato su La Nuova Bussola Quotidiana il maggio giugno 2023:«Prima che nascessero i monti / e la terra e il mondo fossero generati / da sempre e per sempre tu sei, Dio» (Sal 89,2). Le lodi mattutine di ieri, 26 giugno, ci ricordano che l'intera creazione - dai monti a tutta la realtà di cui noi stessi facciamo parte - è opera dell'Eterno, cioè di Dio. Esse ci parlano dello stesso Dio che si è incarnato nella pienezza dei tempi, condividendo tutto della condizione umana (tranne il peccato) fino a lasciarsi crocifiggere per la nostra salvezza. È quindi curioso, sebbene non originale, che oggi, A. D. 2023, si possa definire «anacronistico» quel simbolo, la croce, che ricorda l'evento centrale nella storia dell'uomo, richiamando evidentemente Colui - Gesù Cristo - che ha voluto amare i suoi figli fino al dono della sua stessa vita.Il caso è già ben noto alle cronache: tutto nasce dalla posizione espressa da esponenti di spicco del Cai, il Club Alpino Italiano, a proposito delle croci innalzate sulle cime delle montagne. Ricostruiamo i fatti.Giovedì 22 giugno, all'Università Cattolica di Milano, si è tenuto un convegno con relatori di diversa estrazione che si sono confrontati sui temi presenti nel libro Croci di vetta in Appennino, di Ines Millesimi. Il convegno era stato annunciato il 13 giugno attraverso un articolo sulla testata online del Cai, Lo Scarpone, in cui Pietro Lacasella, curatore del portale, a proposito delle croci di vetta, scriveva che è sbagliato rimuoverle ma è «anacronistico» innalzarne altre, perché «la croce non rappresenta più una prospettiva comune, bensì una visione parziale», mentre le vette dovrebbero essere considerate «come un territorio neutro».La stessa posizione - né rimuovere le croci esistenti né innalzarne di nuove - veniva espressa al convegno alla Cattolica dal direttore editoriale e responsabile delle attività culturali del Cai, l'ateo dichiarato Marco Albino Ferrari. In un solco simile anche la linea dell'autrice del libro presentato all'evento, Ines Millesimi, secondo cui «la croce non può essere un segno divisivo». Lo Scarpone ritornava quindi sul tema con un articolo - Croci di vetta: qual è la posizione del CAI? - sempre a firma di Lacasella, per ribadire, a sintesi del convegno, il concetto che il Cai rispetta le croci esistenti e si occupa anche della loro manutenzione, ma il presente impone di «disapprovare la collocazione di nuove croci e simboli», per via del «dialogo interculturale» e delle «nuove esigenze paesaggistico-ambientali». Anche questo è un paradossale segno dei tempi: accantonare Dio in nome dell'ambiente e delle religioni (e pazienza che quella rivelata sia una sola).La posizione del Cai ha suscitato malcontento tra diversi soci. E ha portato vari leader di centrodestra a intervenire, forse anche per un malinteso sulla rimozione: malinteso che comunque - stando a quanto riportava il sito del TgCom il 24 giugno - avrebbe coinvolto anche alcune guide di Alagna (provincia di Vercelli) che avevano già cominciato a rimuovere le croci «per ammassarle in un memoriale».A seguito dell'intervento della maggioranza al Governo - incluso il Ministero del Turismo, che vigila per competenza sul Club Alpino Italiano - il presidente dello stesso Cai, Antonio Montani, ha diffuso una nota per dire che non c'è «una posizione ufficiale» sulle croci di vetta e quanto pubblicato in precedenza «è frutto di dichiarazioni personali espresse dal direttore editoriale Marco Albino Ferrari […]. Personalmente, come credo tutti quelli che hanno salito il Cervino, non riesco ad immaginare la cima di questa nostra montagna senza la sua famosa croce». La nota, a ben vedere, è solo un parziale dietrofront, perché toglie l'aura di ufficialità alla posizione espressa da Ferrari-Lacasella, ma nulla dice su eventuali nuove installazioni di croci.E questo non è un punto secondario. Le croci di vetta di cui si parla - come riporta il portale del Cai - risalgono per la maggior parte al periodo compreso tra la seconda metà del XIX e la prima metà del XX secolo. Dunque, innanzitutto, oggi non c'è questa presunta "emergenza" di evitare chissà quale proliferazione di nuove croci. D'altra parte, presentare la croce come anacronistica e divisiva pone come minimo un problema di prudenza, perché il discorso investe evidentemente non solo le croci sulle vette - il che è già problematico - ma tutte le croci e i simboli cristiani negli spazi e luoghi pubblici. Le assurdità da politicamente corretto della nostra epoca - quelle sì divisive, nel senso negativo del termine - stanno lì a ricordarcelo. E la storia ci dice che quando serpeggia un clima culturale così, basta nulla perché dalla persecuzione ai simboli si passi a quella alle persone che in quei simboli si riconoscono.

Assieme a Claudio Cantini, tecnologo dell'Istituto per la BioEconomia del CNR, parliamo della app Olive-Rec che permette agli utenti di segnalare le diverse varietà di ulivo sul territorio per combattere l'erosione genetica della specie. Gabriella Dodero, referente per le disabilità di Informatici Senza Frontiere, ci parla del supporto fornito dall'associazione a chi cerca la app adatta alle sue necessità specifiche nel contesto di un'offerta sempre più ricca e quindi sempre più complessa. Titti Postiglione, vicecapo Dipartimento della Protezione Civile, ci spiega It-alert, il sistema di allerta nazionale che verrà sperimentato in Toscana, Sicilia, Sardegna, Calabria ed Emilia-Romagna nelle prossime settimane.Per un uso sempre più informato parliamo con Giacomo Trevisan, formatore e coordinatore regionale dell'Associazione MEC (Media Educazione Comunità) che propone nelle scuole medie un "patentino" per l'utilizzo dello smartphone. Beatrice Toro, psicologa e psicoterapeuta, ci parla della sempre più diffusa dipendenza da smartphone e, soprattutto, delle tattiche e delle abitudini da adottare per contrastarla.

La notizia è veramente grave e non può essere ignorata. Secondo “Il Giornale” del 23 giugno 2023, il Club Alpino Italiano (C.A.I.), la più importante organizzazione alpinistica, si sarebbe espresso contro l'installazione di Croci sulle cime delle montagne. La ragione è che la Croce non esprimerebbe più i sentimenti degli italiani, e sarebbe dunque divisiva. Le montagne, si dice, appartengono a tutti e il Crocifisso è ammesso negli spazi privati, ma va tolto da quelli pubblici, che siano una scuola o una montagna.

Summer in Tuscany is a truly glorious season, even if sometimes it gets really hot and muggy. If you're lucky enough to be in this neck of the woods, you'll be spoilt for choice between many fairs, events that are sometimes quite quirky. Last year we talked to you about the Gioco del Ponte, the reverse tug of war on one of Pisa's most famous bridges, an event so unusual that baffles foreigners since the Middle Ages. Up the Arno, the main rival of the city of the Leaning Tower had plenty of particular events, but no one is as crazy as the tournament that dominates one of its most beautiful squares at the end of June. This very ancient version of football is, frankly, an acquired taste. What makes it weird? Well, let's start by saying that literal fighting on the pitch is pretty much ignored by the referees. Despite being so brutal, Florentines adore it, so much that it's almost integral to the city identity. That is why this week What's Up Tuscany will bring you back to Florence to tell you everything there is to know about the wonderfully bonkers "calcio storico".If you listen to the full episode, you will learn how the origins of this game are quite unclear, possibly dating back to the Roman Empire and how, especially in the Renaissance, Fiorentini loved it so much that it was played in almost every street. It wasn't just regular people: heirs of the most powerful families, like the Medici, played in Piazza Santa Croce. It took a long siege and a crazy act of defiance to consolidate its place in the heart of every Florentine. After being banned for a couple centuries, since 1930 the tournament is held every year following the rules written back in 1580 by a famous scholar. In the final parts I will explain to you the not so crazy rules of this game and try to convey what makes it so close to the hearts of many Tuscans. It is not to everyone's taste, many people find it abhorrent, brutal, unnecessarily violent but by looking at how the players and fans get so crazy that you can have a look into the real soul of this land. It may be bonkers, but it's much more genuine than many others events that seem catered only to tourists.Email: podcast@larno.itFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/larno.itTwitter: @arno_it / @WhatsupTuscanyLINKS TO SOURCES (ITALIAN ONLY)https://sportgang.it/calcio-storico-fiorentino/https://www.vanityfair.it/sport/altri-sport/2017/07/09/calcio-storico-fiorentino-rispetto-polizia-campo-zenahttps://www.intersport.it/get-inspired/calcio-storico-fiorentino-storia-regoleBACKGROUND MUSICPipe Choir - Bom Bom Breakthrough (Instrumental)Everous & Canonblade - GleamCatmosphere - Candy-Coloured SkyRender - PrismPipe Choir - Gemini (Instrumental)Wayne John Bradley - Blues Rock Original InstrumentalAll released under Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International Licensehttps://soundcloud.com/pipe-choir-2/pipe-choir-bom-bom-breakthrough-creative-commons-instrumentalhttps://soundcloud.com/argofox/catmosphere-candy-coloured-skyhttps://soundcloud.com/argofox/render-prismhttps://freemusicarchive.org/music/Pipe_Choir/SGONS_Instrumentals/Pipe_Gemini_Instrumentalhttps://soundcloud.com/ayneohnradley/blues-rock-original-instrumentalcreative-commonshttp://www.pipechoir.com/

My guest is Rob Croce, Senior Portfolio Manager at Newton Investment Management Group. This episode is all about what Rob considers to be the two super factors: trend and carry.  More importantly, how Rob uses them to inform how risk is taken within asset classes, across asset classes, and over time. Rob is not afraid to get in the weeds, either.  For example, on the trend side we discuss details such as how to combine trend signals of different speeds, how to balance the probability of a trend signal being noise versus its likelihood of continuing, and how trend signals can be improved using clustering ideas. From high level thoughts about diversification to low level details about measuring bond carry correctly, there's a lot to unpack in this episode. Please enjoy my discussion with Rob Croce.

Today on Too Opinionated we sit down with girl boss, entrepreneur and owner/founder of BTS Event Management, Trista Croce! Born and raised in a small town in Wisconsin, Trista had dreams of doing big things and starting her own exciting journey out in the world. She attended University of Arizona where her love for event coordination first originated. Her interest in event work stemmed from when she began interning with a company who specialized in event management for a non-profit organization. Her creativity and attention to detail landed her a position within the company. Trista instantly became obsessed with the wedding and event industry and soon after, she created BTS and hasn't looked back since! It was over 10 years ago that Trista's ultimate dream turned into a reality. She created BTS Event Management, launching over 10 years ago in Phoenix, Arizona. The company got its start planning local weddings in Arizona but has since skyrocketed, traveling around the world to beautiful destinations, such as LA, Mexico, Costa Rica, & more, creating the dreamiest day for each wedding couple. Trista and the BTS team are perfect for a couple who wants an unforgettable and unique wedding day, inspiring guests alike! BTS sets the bar for luxury weddings. What makes BTS unique is that they truly do it all for their couples. They plan, coordinate, and manage wedding as well as design and create the setting weddings take place in. Want to watch: YouTube Meisterkhan Pod (Please Subscribe)

Welcome to another episode of the Global Investors Podcast; I'm your host Charles Carillo. Today we have Andrew Reichert & Daniel Croce. They are co-founders of BERGO Realty, a Pittsburgh-based private equity real estate firm, with over $270 million in assets under management across over 2,800 multifamily units. It is a vertically integrated company with over 80 employees; handling everything from property acquisitions and asset management to on-site property management. Learn More About Andrew and Dan Here: BERGO - https://www.birgo.com/  Connect with the Global Investors Show, Charles Carillo and Harborside Partners: ◾ Setup a FREE 30 Minute Strategy Call with Charles: http://ScheduleCharles.com ◾ FREE Passive Investing Guide: http://www.HSPguide.com ◾ Join Our Weekly Email Newsletter: http://www.HSPsignup.com ◾ Passively Invest in Real Estate: http://www.InvestHSP.com ◾ Global Investors Web Page: http://GlobalInvestorsPodcast.com/

Today I'm talking to Christine, a Humane Marketing Circle member and Creative Start-Up Coach about passion and happiness. Join us for a thought-provoking conversation with Christine Michaelis, author of the book “The Happiness Formula.” We explore the intriguing question of why some business owners find greater happiness in their endeavors than others. Throughout our discussion, we uncover a treasure trove of insights, examining the transformative power of habits that promote happiness, the art of setting achievable goals that foster fulfillment rather than disappointment, and the joy derived from being part of a vibrant community. Drawing from her extensive research and expertise, Christine offers practical strategies and illuminating anecdotes that are sure to inspire and motivate listeners to unlock their own path to happiness in business and beyond. So tune in as we embark on this captivating exploration of what it takes to be a truly happy and fulfilled business owner. In this episode, Christine and I share a conversation on: Why some business owners are happier than others Habits that make us happier How to set achievable goals that make us happy and not disappointed The happiness that comes from being in community with others Her new book ‘The Happiness Formula'  And much more Imperfect Transcript of the show We use and love Descript to edit our podcast and provide this free transcript of the episode. And yes, that's an affiliate link. [00:00:00] Sarah: Hello, humane marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non-pushy. [00:00:23] I'm Sarah z Croce, your hippie turn business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneer. Mama Bear of the Humane Marketing Circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like-minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what. [00:00:52] Works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like-minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a Zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a. [00:01:15] Sustainable way we share with transparency and vulnerability, what works for us and what doesn't work, so that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane.marketing/circle, and if you prefer one-on-one support from me. [00:01:37] My humane business coaching could be just what you need, whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big. Idea like writing a book. I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. [00:01:58] If you love this podcast, [00:02:00] wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one-on-one client can find out more at humane.marketing/coaching. And finally, if you are a Marketing Impact pioneer and would like to bring Humane Marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website@humane.marketing. [00:02:32] Hi, friends. Welcome back. I hope you're doing well. Today's conversation fits under the P of Passion, so we're back to the first P of the Humane Marketing Mandala. If you're a regular here, you know that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. And if this is your first time here and you probably don't know what I'm talking about, you can download your one page marketing plan with the [00:03:00] humane marketing version of the seven Ps of marketing@humane.marketing slash one page. [00:03:07] That's the number one and the word page. This one page marketing plan comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different piece for your business. So it's not a, you know, six step plan here, do this. But it's more like prompting you with questions that help you reflect on your different piece. [00:03:29] On today's show, I'm talking to Christine, uh, Michael's, uh, humane Marketing Circle, member and creative startup coach about passion and happiness. But before I tell you a little bit more about Christine and today's show, I'd like to tell you about our upcoming storytelling, like We're Human Workshop that takes place on June 7th. [00:03:52] As you may have noticed, I have this series of workshops, live workshops, with the theme of being [00:04:00] human. Something being human, right? And the idea is to look at these different concepts. Marketing strategies, et cetera, from the perspective of humane marketing and marketing like we're human. So this, uh, time we're looking at storytelling and rather than looking at storytelling from this, Hero's perspective, right? [00:04:22] Hint, hero's journey. We're actually looking at it from being human. So how are we going to tell stories that feel like we're human? Uh, I think we are kind of tired of the, uh, heroes, uh, stories and we'd watch, rather hear from a human level. Connect on this human level and in order to get ideal clients, we know that we, uh, need to bring more of us to our marketing, more of us to our story, but. [00:04:55] How, that's the question, right? In which stories are relevant? [00:05:00] Well, that's exactly what we're discussing in this 90 minute live workshop on June 7th, and I'm so thrilled that Hillary Ria, uh, my co-host will help you find your five word life story. And I'm really super excited about this because I. I'm so happy to have found a storytelling expert that agrees with me that, you know, the, the typical heroes journey story type is kind of outdated. [00:05:29] We need to bring more of us to our story, and that's what we're gonna do in this live workshop. So it starts from within. That's actually what we're doing. Instead of trying to fit our story into the story arc, the hero's journey arc we're coming from within. And there's still a, you know, framework. [00:05:47] There's still structure, but it really comes from within. So please have a look at the details at humane.marketing/storytelling and uh, join us for only [00:06:00] $27 for this confidence boosting workshop. Cuz once you. Own your story. That's when you're really going out there and resonating with your ideal clients. [00:06:09] Right? Of course, if you're already a Humane Marketing Circle member, you can intend all our workshops for free. Okay, back to today's episode. Let me tell you a bit more about Christine. Christine Marketing and creative startup coach, founder of the Creative Startup Academy, author of multiple books, public speaker, podcast and workshop facilitator. [00:06:33] She has worked in marketing and advertising for more than 12 years before she decided to start her own business supporting startups. When her hands-on approach, she has helped hundreds of individuals validate their. Business idea and create a successful startup, as well as working with small businesses, supporting them, getting clarity and marketing their business. [00:06:56] She sees entrepreneurship as a way of life and [00:07:00] loves the passion that comes from working in that industry. In our conversation today, we talked about why some business owners are happier than others and how to help, uh, those who are not always happy to get to more happiness. Some habits that make us happier. [00:07:20] How to set achievable goals that make us happy and not disappointed. The happiness that comes from being in community with others. Her new book, the Happiness Formula, and so much more. So let's dive in and be happy with Christine McKays. [00:07:40] Hi Christine. Thanks so much for being on the Humane Marketing Podcast. I look forward to this conversation about happiness and bliss. [00:07:48] Christine: Yes, thank you. I'm very excited to share Rod It and um, Hopefully make some people happy. At least smile, [00:07:56] Sarah: at least. We're definitely smiling. Uh, I just said [00:08:00] offline, I spent most of my day in nature. [00:08:02] We saw these little ducklings and you know, it's finally spring. Yeah, I'm definitely happy today. So, but let's, let's start with you like, you know, it's, um, I'm basically featuring this episode under the P of Passion, which is the first P of the Humane Marketing Mandala. And so when you said that you're coming out with a book about happiness, I'm like, well, happiness, passion, you know, it's all these good feelings that we want to have more of. [00:08:31] So tell us yeah. What you are passionate about and, and then also obviously then we go into the, the whole definition of happiness and how do we get more happy as autism. [00:08:43] Christine: Yes. Um, well, thank you. First, uh, for having me. I'm, I'm very excited. Um, I know we've done so many things together and I know there will be so many more collaborations coming out of that. [00:08:56] Uh, and I think you can't find a more passionate person [00:09:00] about, uh, what they do. I know everyone is, but I really explode with passion when I, when I talk about, um, What I do and, and I just love it. Uh, and always I say I'm an accidental entrepreneur because I never wanted my own business. Um, but it had just happened and I absolutely love it. [00:09:19] And I only basically work with people because I work with entrepreneurs, um, that are really passionate about what they're doing. And that's lovely. That wraps off on me. And it really gives you energy, I think, um, when you, uh, yeah, when you work with people that are passionate. So what am I passionate about? [00:09:39] Work. Mm-hmm. In this case, my own company. Um, if we are looking from a business perspective, I'm really someone who loves getting things done and crossing things off the list. I, I really love, I'm, I'm like kind of, I'm really passionate about having this and I used to not anymore, uh, have to-do lists for [00:10:00] personal life. [00:10:01] Okay, do the sports, uh, go out for, for a walk, wash the dishes and stuff. Now I don't do that anymore, and I'm learning more and more to also sometimes do nothing, uh, which is really difficult for me because I love to finish things also. That's not very strange. But I love to finish a shampoo bottle or to, to finish a product or something. [00:10:24] I have to, that's fine with me. Um, I know what you [00:10:27] Sarah: mean. Yeah, I know what you mean. It's kind of like that's. Oh, okay. We finished this, you know, and it's like, oh, we can move on to the next thing. [00:10:35] Christine: Yeah. And challenges work really well for me. If you give me a 30 day challenge, I will do all 30 days. Um, But what I'm really passionate about is as well, um, is making people smile. [00:10:47] I think really people always say, oh, what's your purpose in life and stuff? And this sounds very cheesy now, but I, I love making people happy because it makes me really happy and it's all interconnected and it's lots of science behind it [00:11:00] as well. Um, however, that really, that may, that, that's what I'm passionate about, spreading some happiness in, in swan's life. [00:11:09] Hmm. Yeah. [00:11:10] Yeah. [00:11:11] Sarah: So, so let's talk about this happiness. Um, what, what I was thinking about is like, you know, how come what makes some entrepreneurs, business people happier than others? And, and then how can we help those who are not currently happy in their business or in their life? But since we're on a business podcast, we can talk about business. [00:11:37] Um, Yeah. How can we help them to find back to being happy? [00:11:44] Christine: I think the very first thing, I mean there's also official definitions of happiness and stuff. The very first thing is obviously to know and understand, um, which probably people do that. Happiness means different things to different people. Um, however, there's also science [00:12:00] that shows what doesn't make happy. [00:12:01] Um, but we are gonna focus, of course, also on the things that. Will make people happy and also, um, business owners. So, um, I, I would say you would need to define first, what does happiness mean to you? What does success mean to you? Because therefore, for, um, entrepreneurs are often interlinked, um, let's say saying, okay, if I have success, That makes me happy and that makes also the business sustainable. [00:12:28] But what does that mean? It does not necessarily mean, uh, a lot of money. It might mean I help X amount of people with what I do, or I have an impact on society, on an, the environment, whatever. Uh, a specific, uh, success definition. I think everyone, uh, as a business owner should have. I, uh, again, I appreciate that we all have to pay the bills and that is a business. [00:12:54] Um, so it, um, it's thinking about the money, but not in, in the connection with [00:13:00] happiness really. So understanding what does happiness mean to you and your, in your business, um, and what does success mean to you? It's the very, very first thing. And then if we go into a few really practical things and steps into what, um, science has shown, what really works, um, and what helps with happiness and increasing your happiness, Is, um, investing into experiences in instead of materialistic things. [00:13:29] So because they create lasting memories and give you the sense of personal growth as well, and that overall can contribute, um, to a deeper understanding and satisfaction and fulfillment. And, um, basically when you do that, you prioritize time. Over resources. You prioritized, uh, your time and resource in a way that really align with your values as well and your personal interests. [00:13:58] So in business [00:14:00] or in personal life as well. And again, this can give you this sense of fulfillment, fulfillment and feeds into the purpose that you might not have defined yet for yourself because it's a very difficult question. What's your purpose like? Mm-hmm. I just talked to someone else who said, I don't believe in that stuff. [00:14:17] I don't think we have any purpose. And I was like, okay. Uh, that's okay. Everyone has their own view. Um, but really you can, you can do that. And investing into experiences. You also invest in relationships with other people. You create memories together. And, um, you also share that, that success with, uh, other ones. [00:14:36] And in that case, um, you can share successes, for example, that you had or the company had with the team, with co-founders. With, uh, freelancers that you, that you work with, if you outsource something with suppliers, with clients, you can share this. If, if the client had a success, you should celebrate that. [00:14:54] Mm-hmm. Not because, oh, I'm so great. That was me, but really because you're happy for that person. [00:15:00] Mm-hmm. And it will make you happy. So that would be the next experiences. [00:15:04] Sarah: I really like that because I just come back, uh, from, from an experience. So, so basically we have a mastermind, uh, where we meet every, uh, every month and every month that somebody else hosts the, the get together. [00:15:18] And so today, I hosted and so I just, I said, instead of staying at our place, let's go down to the forest because I'm. Lucky enough to live next to a forest, next to, um, a little water, uh, stream as well. And so, um, you know, it takes time though to take time of our, out of our busy lives, right? Mm-hmm. And so, uh, only five out of the 10 people could make it, but those who made it, we just appreciated it so much. [00:15:47] And then, like I said, we saw the ducklings, we created memories together, right? And, and yeah, we just. Felt really happy. Where had we stayed in our office and, you know, [00:16:00] maybe, yeah. Made more money or, you know, had another client that it wouldn't have given us the same feeling of happiness. I'm sure. Yes. It's, yeah. [00:16:11] It's really those times where you step out of the. Normal kind of, um, things that, that you feel these moments of awe and, and experience what you, what you said. [00:16:23] Christine: Another thing that, and also with others. I mean with others, exactly. You, you can go by yourself and you have a great experiences, but if you share this moment with others, the shared moment again as another. [00:16:32] Yeah. Um, yeah. So another [00:16:34] Sarah: layer of happiness. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Another, um, point you make in the book that contributes to happiness is about building. Habits. Um, so talk to us about these habits. Why do habits, one could say, well, habits make it more boring. So, so how do habits make us more happy? [00:16:57] Christine: Yes. So building habits is [00:17:00] another thing like you just mentioned. [00:17:01] Uh, I just wanna mention three quickly other things as well. Um, before we jump into the habits, maybe because it's about the experiences, uh, that jumps back into that is the savoring the moment. Meaning that you really see and, and stay in that moment and see the positive side and aspects of things. And what you can do is you can share that with others. [00:17:23] So if it's an experience that you had yourself, um, to have a bigger impact, you can share this with others as well via the phone. Maybe a video, maybe a quick call, video call or something. Um, that can help that. Um, You can physically jump up in the air and, and be happy about things and, uh, stuff like that. [00:17:42] But anyway, just to, to, uh, combine that again with the experiences, so with the habits, um, because habits, um, enhance, can enhance if you're talking about good habits. Um, so, and these might have to be defined, but they, um, enhance really [00:18:00] your physical health, your mental health. Um, your emotional resilience and can really contribute to, uh, again, to this greater sense of purpose and fulfillment. [00:18:12] Mm-hmm. Now, creating habits, I'm gonna talk about this in a second, but, uh, engaging in hobbies or activities that bring you joy and there's a difference between joy and happiness. Officially there's this definition. Happiness is like the longer state and, uh, of something. The joy is the one that you have in that moment. [00:18:32] Mm-hmm. Um, but I would say find something that brings you joy outside of business also. Um, of course you should have joy in the business and what you're doing. But make sure you do find hobbies in, um, groups that you, um, go out with in nature and things that have nothing to do necessarily with your business. [00:18:56] Because I think as entrepreneurs as well, we [00:19:00] have difficulties to detach from work because it's always there and it's our baby and we're passionate about it so that we. Mm. Don't see that we overwork ourselves sometimes. So, uh, take some stuff out of there as well and create habits around it. Um, have regular working hours is a habit that I think everyone should have. [00:19:20] Um, when you ha work for someone else or if you work for yourself, have your own business. Make sure you have working hours set and don't work after those hours. There might be exceptions cuz maybe there's a podcast recording that you're doing with someone else after hours or. Um, you speak at an event and it's not possible to do otherwise, but the norm should be that you have regular set hours. [00:19:45] That's, I think, a good habit to have. Um, to have a end of work routine is something that I never had. And after I worked with someone, um, that was also a remote coach, basically that was one of the first things she said, [00:20:00] you should have. A habit, a routine when finished working because you can signal your brain. [00:20:06] Okay, that's it. That's the end of the work today, especially if you're working from home, right? Because, and you might be even in the same room and where you do other things, um, in the not have extra office. That's another great habit. Um, morning routines. I'm a massive fan of morning routine. Um, you don't have to be extreme, but having some kind of routine to start your day to wake up in a slower way. [00:20:30] I get up very early. I have almost two hour morning routine. Um, but where you involve different kind of senses, bit of exercise, doesn't have to be a massive exercise. Can be also yoga, some breathing exercise. Maybe people like to do visualizations in the morning, maybe to ride whatever you feel, what works for you, which gives you the time. [00:20:50] To wake up and to set up for the day. I think that would be a good habit to have. Um, healthy eating, which can be sometimes [00:21:00] challenging if you are in, in this run of getting things done. Um, Eating very fast. Even if you eat healthy stuff, uh, is also not, uh, recommended. And I'm still eating too fast. I'm, I'm done in six minutes with my whole, uh, lunch, which is, uh, not good. [00:21:19] I take an hour because then I do a walk and things like that, but the actual eating part is too short actually. Mm-hmm. Um, But eating healthy because it will give you energy, it will be good for your body. Um, and it will really have a big impact on your health and wellbeing and your happiness as well. [00:21:37] Sarah: What I hear is like there's a lot of habits that are actually more life related than they are business related. Um, and those are the ones who are really established as. Solid foundation. Right. Of course. Then we could also be speaking about, you know, create a habit to write every day, you know, [00:22:00] write blog posts every, like mm-hmm. [00:22:01] All of these other habits. But it sounds like the ones that really build a foundation and that make you happy, happy are, are more life related [00:22:12] Christine: habits. Yes. Yeah, because they, they impact you. Yeah. And the same with getting enough sleep. If you don't get enough sleep, you won't be able to focus enough during your day and get stuff done that you want to get done. [00:22:22] Right? So everything impacts your, um, impacts your work as well. If you don't eat healthy, you probably don't have enough. Uh, if you don't drink enough water, if you're not eating healthy, you don't have enough energy to get through the day, you will have a down point as well. Um, if you. If you don't give yourself enough time to wake up in the morning with a morning or dinner, that will impact your day. [00:22:44] Yeah. Um, of course these cutoff days and stuff that I mentioned are more work related, but yes, for sure. Yeah. I'm also [00:22:51] Sarah: a big fan of, um, I think it was Tim Ferris, at least that's who I heard, uh, talk about it. Uh, first is, is you know, kind of. [00:23:00] Minimizing the decision fatigue, like making, we we're making so many decisions every day as entrepreneurs, right? [00:23:08] Mm-hmm. So if you can just cut a few of these decisions and just have the habits, uh, for example, you know, I have oatmeal every morning, and that's just. Who I am now, it's basically who I am. It's like I'm Sarah who eats oatmeal with, um, turmeric every morning. And so then it just becomes part of you. I do yoga every morning. [00:23:30] It's becomes part of you. And so you don't have to decide, should I eat yoga today or should I not? And so that in a way that it's not boring to me. It just makes me happy. I look forward to my oatmeal every day. Right. Yeah. So, [00:23:44] Christine: and that's exactly the, the point of habits and, and because it becomes a habit, it's effortless. [00:23:50] You don't have to take a decision. It's just part of what you do. Yeah. And it's also okay, and I'm someone who also struggles with that because I'm so, [00:24:00] um, Chiefer mindset, uh, if you want to call it and crossing off things to this, but. It's also okay to be flexible if you stayed up longer, wake up later to get enough sleep and don't compromise on that part just to get your habit in. [00:24:17] Um, so I think this flexibility around habit building. Um, so they become part and become easy and you don't have to take the decision to do something. However, if for whatever reason you can't do it at one day, that's also okay. Yeah. And I think it, [00:24:33] Sarah: you have to struggle with, with yourself and say, okay, fine today, and don't do that habit. [00:24:38] Christine: Exactly. And just a, a couple of tips there. Um, maybe. And people have heard that before probably on how to actually build habits and how to create habit and to make it effortless and there's lots of science behind it. How long does it take? If some people say 21 days? Some people say, uh, 30 something, some 70 something, I think depends on the person, depends on the habit. [00:24:58] Hmm. Uh, getting rid of [00:25:00] habit is even more difficult than creating healthy habits. Um, but starting small. Is of course the, the really, the biggest thing. If you say, I wanna meditate every day, one hour, you won't, if you've never meditate before, if you say, I'm gonna take a mindful breath every day before I get out of bed, I can do that. [00:25:20] That's the smallest thing you can do. Take one mindful breath, that's like a meditation, or I do a five minute guided meditation from YouTube or stretching or something that probably you can do. Um, accountability can be something that can help. So find someone, uh, that you share this again, shared experiences. [00:25:39] Mm-hmm. They maybe the habit with, um, or you, some people like use tracking apps. Uh, right. Strangely enough, I don't, but, uh, I know there's a lot of happy tracking apps and stuff. Some people, for some people that works. Um, again, tracking the progress. Um, if you do yoga, like you mentioned, for example, if you.[00:26:00] [00:26:01] Um, you see, you get more flexible and, uh, it's, it's better and you have probably as back pain because, uh, we probably sit a lot in front of the computer with a lot of zoom meetings, things like that. A good habit to have is also have taking screen breaks, for example, um, not to be in front of the screen for eight hours a day. [00:26:20] Taking the breaks. Make sure your eyes can relax. Um, celebrating when you've done one of the habits, okay? You, you created something. So if you wanna do yoga, if you take a breath, whatever it is, then in the end, that habit is you celebrate that you did that. And that doesn't mean you have to then go out and drink something, or you, you go on a holiday every time you do a habit. [00:26:42] But it can be just like a Well done, Christine, a head on the shoulder. Maybe you wanna hug yourself. Maybe you look in the mirror and say, yes. Yes, I did that. Thank you. Good. That was good. That's like little celebration to signal your brain, that little success moment as well. [00:27:00] Yeah. Feeling more accomplished. [00:27:02] Um, and a final thing is, um, finding the situations and the support and the surroundings that help you to implement your healthy habits. So if you wanna establish something and your life and the people around you is not, just not set up for that. Then think about it and doing it consistently will help you to do that. [00:27:23] And um, I think the last thing they always say is, make sure you attach it to something that you already do. So someone said to me, oh, if, if you wanna do five sit ups in the morning, if we talk about physical exercise and you attach that to when you stopped brushing your teeth, Then you will do it more likely than trying to do it outside of something that you already do. [00:27:46] You wanna drink more water. That's why some [00:27:47] Sarah: people have their running shoes already out when they go to bed. Right, right next to the bed. [00:27:53] Christine: Yeah. Also, yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, this, uh, would be like, good, good tips. Thanks. Thank [00:27:59] Sarah: you. [00:28:00] Yeah. I, there's another thing I really wanna make sure we have time to talk about. [00:28:05] Mm-hmm. Um, which is goals. Because in a way, it kind of probably ties into our definition of success because we, as entrepreneurs, we set ourselves sometimes quite aggressive goals, right? Mm-hmm. And then we're not happy or we're sad if we're not achieving them. And so you talk about this idea of making sure that we set achievable goals. [00:28:34] Mm-hmm. Talk to us about that and how that makes us happier. [00:28:39] Christine: Yes. Um, well, because if we feel, um, first of all, if we are achieving goals and then we talk about how I usually set goals as well, um, then it gives us this sense of fulfillment that we achieved something, uh, we should always celebrate, we achieved the goal. [00:28:55] So it, it gives us a sense of moving forward. I think if you do not [00:29:00] set goals, it can be very demotivating in business. Um, and I always say, if you don't set yourself a goal, how do you know you achieved something? If you never wanted to achieve something because a goal is nothing else, then okay, I wanna get something done if we, okay. [00:29:15] Goal setting is a harsh, harsh thing and I know we all do it and, and stuff, and we're in business. Um, however, I think getting to a specific point where you want to be, It's already setting yourself a goal. And we all want to be somewhere. We all want to be, have specific impact. We all want to have a certain amount of money to support a lifestyle that we want. [00:29:36] We all, um, want to make work with X amount of people because then we know, again, we have that impact in that kind of way, so that that really can support making us happy. But one thing is extremely important. Goals might change. Goals are not written in stone like they say you can, it's your goal. [00:30:00] Well, I always say you have three questions. [00:30:02] Um, is it your goal, yes or no? Is it maybe put onto you by someone else? Um, especially when you work in a company and it's, you are not a business owner, then you often get goals set by other people. Um, does the goal excite you? And, um, if any of the answers to these questions is no. Revisit the goal because you will get demotivated. [00:30:27] Mm-hmm. And then there's obviously a lot of acronyms and formulas and stuff that you can use to set goals and, uh, one of the most used ones is smart. I actually don't like that too much, even though it does work. But I, I just don't like it too much because it's always used in corporate situations and stuff like that. [00:30:47] Um, so I, um, use actually a different one, which is called Achieve, which already has a great word in it. Okay, so the acronym like that much better? Yes. Um, so it's basically stating a goal as if [00:31:00] it already happened. So not I want this, but, um, as as it, I have a successful business. Let's start with that. [00:31:08] Instead of saying, oh, I don't want to be in a full-time job. Um, then we have the C, which is clear and specific, so you need to know what that means. What does a successful business mean to you? Where is it with whom is it? How much many clients do you have? The turnover, because you will have to think about the money side as well. [00:31:26] Um, and then, um, be very clear and specific on that. And then the age is actually the hittable, which is. Achievable. Um, is this actually realistic? Too often I hear people that, oh, I'm gonna have, uh, this company that will have 2 million turnover at the end of, uh, year two. This is not realistic. Um, probably depends on the company. [00:31:49] Um, the I in Achieve is in a positive direction. So state what you want rather than what you don't want. Also has a bit to do with how the brain works. [00:32:00] Um, because they, uh, the brain does not understand negatives. Um, and if you give it what you already want, then there's a lot of research done that you will actually be more likely to achieve that e uh, so achieve, uh, is exciting. [00:32:16] So it should be exciting for you. If it doesn't excite you, I would not recommend. You're not gonna Yeah. Call, go for it. Yeah. And then the V is actually value-based. Um, and I think that's really important because, um, it should align with your values. You need to be clear on your values, what's important to you, what don't you want, what do you want in life, um, and it needs to align with that. [00:32:40] And then we have the last E, which is ecological. And basically what that means is who and what is affected by you achieving that goal. Because maybe you say, I want to have this company and I wanna run it in New Zealand. If you have a family, For example, or also friends or uh, husband [00:33:00] or children, they will be affected by you moving to New Zealand. [00:33:04] So you should check if they're okay with you achieving that goal. You might have less time for anyone because all of a sudden you have to work more. Um, and you check if they're okay with that. And if they are not okay with that, are you okay with them not being okay with that? That makes sense because it's your goal, it's your life. [00:33:24] But you, [00:33:24] Sarah: you're part of a bigger ecosystem and Exactly. You need to check in with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like, I like that achieve much better than the the smart. Yeah. Mm. It's, yeah. It's somehow outdated and Yeah. It's maybe it's also bigger. It's overused. It's like from the corporate day, so we're like, nah, we're getting Exactly. [00:33:44] Christine: Exactly. [00:33:47] Sarah: I love that. Yeah. Um, We both have communities. Um, and so I'm just wondering also what happiness and community, where they [00:34:00] overlap what they have in common. Um, yeah. You wanna talk about your community and then we can also talk about the circle a little bit. [00:34:09] Christine: Yeah. Yeah. So in, in general, I would say just, um, to answer the question, what do communities have to do with, um, happiness? [00:34:17] Um, it's actually scientifically proven as well that soul through connection, doing things with others, um, is extremely important for happiness and it's crucial for your over overall wellbeing, um, and happiness. And I talk in, um, my book about that as well, a lot. Um, and they actually found that it's. If you are connected in a community, so that's even in a church or in our cases, right? [00:34:46] Sarah: Professional communities. Real life communities or [00:34:48] Christine: online? Yeah, online communities. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it, they, they've shown the studies have shown that you're less likely to experience, um, uh, premature, uh, [00:35:00] death and have more chances to survive fatal illnesses. Because it, it is a bit strange, but it's really, makes, makes total sense to me. [00:35:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so because, um, it will also build up for more resilience and, um, you will have a support system when you're going through difficult times. You will, um, less likely feel loneliness and isolation, have this sense of belonging and you can discover your purpose there as well. Um, and usually you are part of a community that you have shared values with, right? [00:35:35] And, uh, this is where our communities and especially also yours come in and we just be a part of something and we can create new experiences together. So that's based again, of the shared experiences. Um, so having social connections and groups and communities that you belong to really play a massive role in health. [00:35:57] Physical health really. Um, but also in the [00:36:00] mental, um, health and wellbeing and, um, what my community is, uh, for entrepreneurs in the first three years to support them with all kind of things, uh, support, uh, in, in resources and life support and with the community. Um, and yours obviously is a fantastic community of professional people, but that are not. [00:36:22] Mm. Because sometimes when people hear the word professional, they're a bit put off because they think it's like that kind of person that just thinks, uh, uh, about numbers and about, uh, how many followers do I have and, um, how much money do I make? And stuff like, it's not that you can, in my point of view. [00:36:39] And also I know everyone in your community you can be professional, meaning reliable. Um, Exchange knowledge. So you're knowledgeable as well in what you're doing. And I think your community's amazing for that because I've met so many amazing people, started already collaborating with them. And I remember the very first [00:37:00] session that I attended life, I had so much that I took out of that that I then implemented into my business, which really works as well. [00:37:08] Um, and you. All the focus is obviously all on humane and gentle, um, marketing techniques as well. And it, it's really, it's really lovely and it, it does give me that sense of, I found a tribe that I belong to because I can feel that we have, um, shared values, we create these experiences. It's very relaxed and, um, but. [00:37:34] Still professional. Like I say, [00:37:36] Sarah: I love to highlight that. Right. It's this idea, well, I guess we do speak a lot about being human, right? Mm-hmm. Marketing, like we're human. And so that's really what I've wanting, wanted to create is a place where we can be human. Mm-hmm. And yet still be professionals or talk about marketing and business and, and I think that's what also [00:38:00] creates the happiness because we are. [00:38:02] All being our authentic selves. I think that's what you also meant by the community where you feel like you can be yourself, [00:38:10] Christine: right? Yes. And you can feel that passion that everyone has. Yeah. So coming back to the passion that everyone has for their business, and again, if you, if you talk to people that are passionate about something, this will wrap off on you because it's positive energy and it will really, really gives you energy. [00:38:28] Because I, I know it can be sometimes difficult to attend a meeting after hours. Um, right. But every time I, I attend, for example, one of yours, which will be for my time, for example, at five o'clock, sometimes once a month, um, or twice a month. Then I do think, oh yeah, I had a long day. Yeah. But I do know after this meeting, I will be energized actually. [00:38:51] Right. I will be energized because of the people [00:38:53] Sarah: in there. It's experience, again, it's how we started, right? Yeah. It's more of an experience rather than just like, [00:39:00] oh, let me listen to another meeting, or, yes, yes. Because it's not that. Yeah. And, and I just, because you started talking about, um, you know, other communities, church, or mm-hmm. [00:39:12] You know, faith-based or whatever. It's almost like, at least in Europe, that's kind of diminished, right? Mm-hmm. We don't have. Or a lot of us are not really in faith-based communities anymore. And I remember talking with my husband about it, and it's like, we're not craving the church, but we are thinking, you know, at least his parents, they were very, um, involved in church and he's like, yeah, we had a place to be on Sunday. [00:39:43] Mm-hmm. And, and it, and we, you know, we did things together and stuff like that. And it's true that. It's almost like we need to replace that now. [00:39:53] Christine: Mm-hmm. And there is actually someone who is doing that across the world also very successfully. Uh, they're called Sunday [00:40:00] Assembly Uhhuh, and they're on purpose, uh, not religious based. [00:40:03] So, um, he's actually saying, I don't believe in any gods or anything, but he believes in community and he creating those places where people go every Sunday. And have fun together. So I went to a lot of these in when I was in the UK because the guy who founded it, um, Who's also was hosting some of my events that I was doing across Europe, actually, because he's a comedian. [00:40:27] Um, they're really amazing events because people go there, you meet the same, and they, they're like a franchise. So people, they pop up everywhere. Also around the world, also in the US and stuff. And people go and you sing along to a someone to a karaoke song of, uh, of queen. Then there's someone who's, um, There's always a theme of the day. [00:40:48] Mm-hmm. Someone who has written a poem about that theme. Then there's someone who gives a talk about something. And then, um, so I, I actually also did a talk there about community building because of another project I was working on. [00:41:00] And then people stay together and they go together in the pub and, and stuff like that. [00:41:03] And that is really exactly what you mean. Yeah, [00:41:07] Sarah: yeah, yeah. It's so needed, so yeah. Yeah, I think so. I'm happy that you are creating your community for your people and, and yeah, I think there needs to be more opportunities for people to, to [00:41:22] Christine: commune, to get together. Yes. And also to get together, uh, in person. [00:41:28] I mean, we've never met in person. Hopefully we will next, uh, next year around this time, of course. Um, because I know you're organizing something, but. Everything is online and everything. It can be very difficult as well to activate a community and to get together and to have this community feeling, even though you're on the screen for zoom fatigue, this new word that came out, this new illness that all of a sudden happened. [00:41:50] But yeah, I think, yeah. [00:41:53] Sarah: Well, obviously everything we talked about here is, is kind of, well not everything, but a lot [00:42:00] of what we talked about here came from your book. So yes, please do. Tell us. Uh, and for those of us who are watching on YouTube, you can hold it up because you just got it today. Oh, [00:42:10] Christine: yes, wait, I have it here. [00:42:11] It's a first printed copy. Yay. The Happiness Formula. Thank you. Uh, you can get it on Amazon, basically on Amazons, but, uh, there is, uh, greatest startup academy.com/books where you can find that if in case you would be interested. Um, however, um, we are also for, for you, for the sense of this podcast, I would like to offer. [00:42:34] The Kindle book, at least the English version in this case are for free. So, Ooh. Thank you. Yeah. So, so when this one is, uh, aired, which, uh, is on the 2nd of June, I think. Yeah. Um, which is the Friday. So Friday, Saturday, Sunday, this book will be available, the Happiness Formula for three on Kindle. Wow, [00:42:55] Sarah: amazing. [00:42:55] So I'll make sure I use the right link where we can, uh, [00:43:00] download that and, and read about the habits and the goals. And there's so much else we had prepared but didn't have time to talk about. So yes, I'm just gonna have to read the book. Wonderful. Well, do you tell us, um, where people can find you, uh, your website again, where you most often hang out on social [00:43:20] Christine: media and all of that? [00:43:21] Uh, I think LinkedIn. Um, would be, um, one of the preferred ways to get in contact with me. Um, but you find everything on my website. Also the LinkedIn link on, on the bottom, uh, and the footer, um, to my profile. So if you go to creative startup academy.com, there you find everything, the book and also my LinkedIn. [00:43:40] Link the books [00:43:41] Sarah: because you've written like 20 books, right? Yeah. This is the [00:43:45] Christine: 20th. Yes. I got a bit [00:43:47] Sarah: obsessed. Make sure you celebrate because you tell everybody else to do it. So [00:43:52] Christine: make sure I, I, I, yes. I already celebrated when I unpacked earlier. Uh, and, and actually was running around and, and dancing and put a song on.[00:44:00] [00:44:00] And also my, my boyfriend was dancing with me, but we will celebrate more this weekend. [00:44:05] Sarah: Yes. Nice. I always have one last question on my podcast, and it's actually also, uh, another thing we skipped, which is gratitude. Uh, so what are you grateful for today? [00:44:17] Christine: Um, uh, this week apart from being grateful to have, uh, this opportunity to spread more joy and happiness, uh, in people's life, I think. [00:44:26] One, there's two big things I'm very grateful for. First, I, uh, I found love. Mm-hmm. Finding, uh, the person that you want to stay with for hopefully for the rest of your life that will be hopefully long and healthy. Mm-hmm. Um, that's one massive thing I'm massively grateful for, and that's always going in my gratitude journal every day. [00:44:46] Um, and the other thing, uh, is really to have these new opportunities, meeting so many lovely people. So there's so much support out there emotionally and um, with business [00:45:00] advice practically and everything, and I'm really, really grateful for that, that people are so openly sharing and supporting. [00:45:09] Sarah: Nice, nice. [00:45:10] Two things to be grateful for. Yeah. I'm grateful for this conversation. Thanks for being here. Thank you. [00:45:26] Thanks so much for listening to this episode. I hope it put a smile on your face and maybe got you curious about Christine's book to learn some more Happy. Habits so you can get her book, and as she said, she's offering it for free until June 4th, 2023 at creative startup academy.com/the-happiness-formula. [00:45:53] So go there now and download, uh, your free version of the Kindle book for free until June 4th. [00:46:00] You can find out more about Christine and her work at Creative Startup Academy. Dot com. And if you're looking for others who think like you, then why not join Christine and I in the Humane Marketing Circle? [00:46:14] You can find out more about, uh, this at humane.marketing/circle, and I also hope to see a few of you at the storytelling like we're human craft, your five word life story workshop. On June 7th with Hillary Rio, you can find out more about that at humane.marketing/storytelling. You'll find the show notes of this episode@humane.marketing slash 1 65. [00:46:47] And on this beautiful page, you'll also find a series of free offers, such as my Saturday newsletter, the Humane Business Manifesto, and the free Gentle Confidence mini course, as well as my two books, marketing like [00:47:00] we're human and selling like we're human. And if you're an audiobook fan, I have good news marketing like We're Human is. [00:47:07] Available on, uh, audible or everywhere else you get your audio books. So if you are kind of tired of reading, especially now as we are heading into the, um, nice sunny season, at least on my side of the world, maybe you just want to go for a walk in nature and listen to the book while you're walking. Uh, again, you can look that up on Audible or anywhere else where you find. [00:47:32] Uh, audiobooks, of course, read by yours truly. Thanks so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares for yourself, your clients, and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers. So now go be the change you want to see in the world. Speak soon in.

Giovanni Gentile e Benedetto Croce sono due filosofi e intellettuali del Novecento. Vissuti entrambi sotto il regime fascista, sono conosciuti per aver scritto l'uno il Manifesto degli intellettuali fascisti, e l'altro il Manifesto degli intellettuali antifascisti, o Antimanifesto.La contrapposizione fra i due ha aperto nel nostro paese un'importante dibattito sul ruolo dell'intellettuale rispetto alla politica e alla società civile. In questa pillola vediamo quali sono le caratteristiche dei due documenti, e perché sono così rilevanti ancora oggi.Colonna sonoraBlippy trance / Poppers and prosecco - Kevin Mac Leod

Today's episode features a special guest, Mark Schaefer, a globally-recognized keynote speaker, futurist, business consultant, and author. Mark and Sarah delve into the significance of community in today's world and its role in humane marketing. They explore the difference between a community and an audience, the importance of letting go of control as a community builder, the struggles of building a community, and the potential synergy between AI and human communities. They also discuss effective strategies for attracting new members, common mistakes made by community builders and how AI fits into the picture of community. As entrepreneurs, understanding the essence of community building and the benefits it offers can help us create meaningful connections and grow our businesses sustainably. He studied under Peter Drucker for three years and has advanced degrees in marketing and organizational development. Mark holds seven patents and is a faculty member of the graduate studies program at Rutgers University. His blog and podcast -- The Marketing Companion -- are at the top of the charts in the marketing field. Customized for every audience, Mark's inspiring and memorable programs specialize in marketing and strategies for digital marketing, social media, and personal branding. His clients range from successful start-ups to global brands such as Adidas, Johnson & Johnson, Dell, Pfizer, The U.S. Air Force, and the UK Government. Mark is the bestselling author of 10 path-finding books including the first book ever written on influence marketing. Mark's books are used as textbooks at more than 50 universities, have been translated into 15 languages, and can be found in more than 750 libraries worldwide. In this episode, Mark and I discuss: Why community is more important now then ever before The difference between a community and an audience The role of the ego for community builders The struggles of building a community AI and human communities: can they work together? And much more [00:00:00] Sarah: Hello, humane marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non-pushy. [00:00:23] I'm Sarah z Croce, your hippie turn business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneer. Mama Bear of the Humane Marketing Circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like-minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what. [00:00:52] Works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like-minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a Zoom circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a. [00:01:15] Sustainable way we share with transparency and vulnerability, what works for us and what doesn't work, so that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane.marketing/circle, and if you prefer one-on-one support from me. [00:01:37] My humane business coaching could be just what you need, whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big. Idea like writing a book. I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. [00:01:58] If you love this podcast, [00:02:00] wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one-on-one client can find out more at humane.marketing/coaching. And finally, if you are a Marketing Impact pioneer and would like to bring Humane Marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website@humane.marketing. [00:02:30] Hello friends. Welcome back. We arrived once again at the seventh P of the Humane Marketing Mandala. Today's conversation fits under the P of. Partnership. If you are a regular here, you know that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. And if this is your first time here, you probably don't know what I'm talking about, but you can download your one page marketing plan that comes with [00:03:00] the seven Ps of Humane marketing@humane.marketing slash one page. [00:03:06] The number one and the word page, and this truly is a completely different version of the seven Ps of marketing that starts with yourself. It comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different Ps. And so, like I said, today's. Conversation fits under the seventh p the P of partnership, and clearly that's a new P that I added. [00:03:32] It didn't exist in the original sixties version of the seven Ps of marketing. In today's episode, I'm joined by my colleague and fellow marketer, mark Schaffer. Mark is a returning guest as I've spoken to him twice before, since we're fellow introverts. And so he came once to speak on my. Previous podcasts, the one, two podcasts before. [00:03:58] So not the [00:04:00] gentle marketing podcasts, but the one before that, and where I was mainly talking to introverts. I'll dig out the episode. Link so you can go listen to that. So mark spoke to me about being an introvert in business and marketing, and then I had him come back also to talk about his book Marketing Rebellion which actually came out just before. [00:04:22] Weeks before marketing like we're human, which was then called the Gentle Marketing Revolution. So clearly we're kindred spirits, not just personality wise, but also otherwise how we think. Again, we didn't talk about this, but he came out with Marketing Rebellion and for me it was marketing Revolution. [00:04:45] So I'll tell you a bit more about Mark in just a moment, but. Since today's topic is all about community, I want to take a moment to tell you about our community, the Humane Marketing Circle, and what we've been up to in the last [00:05:00] few weeks and months. So the Humane Marketing Circle is a growing community for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs. [00:05:08] Here's the theme again, with the rebellion or the revolution. So we're a community for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who are ready for something different, something fresh and new, a new way of marketing, and a new way of business building, and also a new way of being in community. We now have. Four monthly gatherings, two meetups in which we discuss marketing, one 90 minute business or marketing related workshop with an expert or someone from the community. [00:05:40] So I always try to find experts within the community because we're all experts. And then every now and then if I don't find someone in the community, I'll go and look outside. We're also starting this month with an. Extra call we, that we call net weaving, so it's not networking, but [00:06:00] net weaving which we focus on, in which we focus on forming friendships between members that then lead to new business op. [00:06:08] Opportunities, collaborations, referrals, et cetera. But the main focus is to be human in these net weaving calls. Really just let go of the mask and show up as humans in our comfy clothes and on our couches and sofas, and just build friendships that then eventually lead to new business opportunities. [00:06:31] Here's how our community meetups work. So those are the two regular monthly meetings that we have. One of them I lead and one of them is led by one of our three community ambassadors. In the first half of the call, members bring their questions and we have a conversation about what. It works for us in marketing. [00:06:54] For example, one of the last calls we talked about AI and we share [00:07:00] tools and discussed benefits, dangers, overall ethical questions. We also, just on the last call, we talked about the gentle sales path and what members are doing in terms of bringing new people into their gentle sales paths. And so we take turns, we raise our hands and take turns and everybody. [00:07:19] Is really a leader in the, in their chair, and they get to learn from others and also share. And in the second half of the call, we go into breakout rooms and we have a more intimate conversation with other heart-centered entrepreneurs, which is super valuable because we don't often get this, you know, brainstorming and kind of feedback from other entrepreneurs. [00:07:46] And for example, this month our topic is the P of people. So I always bring a question for the breakout rooms and We discussed, for example a limiting belief that holds our people back. So [00:08:00] what's a limiting belief that holds our clients back? And then we took turns in sharing that in the small breakout room. [00:08:07] So that's the format. Of our meetups. Then we've also successfully transitioned to our new community platform on Kajabi, and I have to say I'm super pleased with it. It's such a lot of fun. We had our first live call directly. In our live room, in the community, so not on Zoom but directly within the Cajabi community, which makes it really safe and it feels like you're really unique to us. [00:08:37] So rather than being on Zoom, which we kind of all use, but it, it has become this tool where. We somehow we show up in our business mindset where if we're all of a sudden in our own platform and we have a call, and it just really felt like, oh, this is, this is our [00:09:00] home. We're hanging out in our home. [00:09:01] And that's what members also mentioned. There's still a few bugs that were working out, but All in all, we love this new community platform on Kajabi, and we're just truly embracing it. And then, as I said, Eddie, our community facilitator will lead his first NetWeaving call really a, a fun call to foster friendships between members that then lead to business opportunities. [00:09:27] I'm super excited to have him on board. It's interesting because Mark, you'll hear him say in. In our podcast episode, you'll hear him say that it's good to hire the youngest member you can find, or the, the youngest person you can find. And so that's exactly what I did with Eddie. He's a millennial probably even. [00:09:48] Younger than millennial. Millennials are now kind of like, oh, they're, you know, they aged as well. So he's, he's 27 and he just brings such a new perspective, such a [00:10:00] different way of being in community, which yeah, which we all love. So it's been great. So I created a, a special may coupon code for you if you'd like to join us now and save 15% on your monthly membership rate for as long as you stay. [00:10:16] So if you feel like now's the time, you can use the coupon code may gift. So, m. A Y G I F T on the checkout page by going to humane.marketing/circle. And this code is valid until May 31st, 2023. So with that, let's go back to our conversation with Mark. About communities. But first, let me tell you a bit about Mark. [00:10:46] So Mark Schaefer is a globally recognized keynote speaker, futurist, business consultant, and author. His clients range from successful startups to global brands such as Adidas, Johnson and Johnson, [00:11:00] Dell, Pfizer, the US Air Force, and the UK government. Mark is the bestselling author of 10 pathfinding books, including the first book ever written on influence marketing. [00:11:11] Mark's books are used as textbooks at more than 50 universities have been translated into 15 languages and can be found in more than 250 libraries worldwide. In today's episode we talked about why community is more important now than ever before. The difference between a community and an audience. [00:11:34] The role of the ego for community builders, the struggles of building a community, how hard it is really to get people together and host the space. And finally we also talk about AI and the role of AI in human communities and how they can work together, cuz that's actually the third part of Mark's new book, belonging to the Brand.[00:12:00] [00:12:00] Let's dive in with Mark. [00:12:34] Court. Good to see you, mark. I, I just said, let's just hit record because we're already sharing all, all this, this good stuff. So we are, we are excited to have you back on the show here. Really looking forward to talking to you about community. Your latest book has a lot of bookmarks already. [00:12:57] Definitely excited. Belonging to the [00:13:00] brand by community is the last great marketing strategy. So let's dive right into it. Most people on, on my show already know who you are. So I'm not gonna go into tell me who Mark Schaffer is and all of that stuff. Why is community so essential and why now? [00:13:18] Mark: I think that's, that's the question is, is, is why now? [00:13:22] Because community has, has always been essential. There's a great quote in the book. From a, there's a great marketer. He was with Coca-Cola, he was with Airbnb, Jonathan Milton Hall, and Jonathan said, look, when our ancestors were gathering around the fire, it, it wa it, it was to create this sense of belonging. [00:13:44] We've always longed to belong a lot of the social structures in our world today. You know, have, have just collapsed, especially here in America. A lot of the ways we used to gather and, and find that community are gone. A lot of that [00:14:00] was made a lot worse during the pandemic. Now I wanna go back a step and assure people this isn't like a touchy-feely, fluffy book about, you know, You know why we should all be in a community. [00:14:14] This is a business book with, I think, a very strong business case of why businesses should view community as part of their marketing strategy. Community isn't new from the first days of the internet. Businesses tried to create communities. Most of them failed because they were set out to like sell more stuff. [00:14:39] People don't really want to gather to buy more stuff, so they didn't really work. Most of the communities today, about 70% of the communities that actually work today for businesses are focused on transactions, customer self-service, which is fine, but the point of my book is that. [00:15:00] The, the purpose of branding is to create this emotional connection with our customers. [00:15:05] A feeling, a meaning that keeps them connected to us. And there's no more powerful way to do that than community. And I show a lot of data. I have a lot of case studies in the book that kind of prove this while we're focused on. You know, customer self-service, which is what most communities look at, look at today. [00:15:28] We're missing bigger opportunities like collaborate, collaboration, co-creation, customer advocacy, sharing information quickly. These are all massive benefits that are going away in other marketing channels. So number one. This is a business book about marketing that works. But I also point out this is marketing that heals, which is a unique aspect of this idea. [00:15:57] Mm-hmm. Because as we talked about, we've got [00:16:00] this mental health crisis going. Everywhere in the world. I don't know what it's like for you in Switzerland, but here it's in the news every day, especially with our young people today. And so we're longing to belong. We need to belong. And if businesses would look at really effective communities from the brand marketing lens, it not only works, but it can actually have a very positive impact on our customers and even the world. [00:16:31] Yeah. [00:16:32] Sarah: And it's so interesting because in our pre-recording talk, we, we discussed, You know, I, I mentioned that I was gonna actually go all in and create a live event, and, and I mentioned that I have a place in Sicily, and you were like, oh, I like Sicily. And it reminded me of one of the stories in your book, and I think it's in the beginning of the book, where you talk about this store, this shop that I think it was actually led by a Sicilian, or [00:17:00] originally Sicilians, right? [00:17:02] Yeah. Mm-hmm. That, and they still have this. Shop. Yeah. So tell us the story about, because it it, and I tell you what I told my husband and, and really that's still the feeling that we get in Sicily. Like it really is still like that. Yeah. So tell us that story. Well, we don't [00:17:19] Mark: have that. It's, we don't have that feeling in a, in America or most places, so, yeah. [00:17:23] So. You know, when when I was a little boy, it was always a special occasion when my grandfather brought something back from, he, he would call it the Italian store. And so I, I got to go back. This store has still been there since 1903. Three brothers. Came to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and they started making pasta, handmade pasta, and now they, it's still in the same family. [00:17:53] Mm-hmm. And the family members make a point to be there in the store, you know, interacting with [00:18:00] customers. Mm-hmm. If you, if there's any, they, they also do like a lot of Shipping and stuff of their specialty products. And if there's ever a problem, I mean, one of, one of those family members is paying attention to it. [00:18:12] You know themselves, well, I, I, I was away from this store for like 40 years, came back, visited Pittsburgh and I, I went to this, this area. Which used to be like a, a, just like a warehouse area, you know, really kind of busy and, you know, dirty Now it's a, it's a big tourist area. Mm-hmm. And the store is still there. [00:18:34] Same old wooden floors. This, all the signs are handwritten all over the stores and, And you know, I walk in and they've got this huge class case with 400 different kinds of cheese, just magnificent and smoked sausages and all these things that they're bringing in from Italy and, and you know, most, mostly Italy, but some other parts of the world. [00:18:58] And I go there and [00:19:00] the people at the counter. Know the customers and they're asking about their, their family and their husbands. And, and one lady was there and her husband had had a health problem and the lady said, well, we just got his favorite kind of cheese. Let me wrap that up. Take it home to him, you know, that maybe this will make him feel better. [00:19:20] And then the lady looked over to the corner and there's some, some of her friends sitting there, she went over to talk to them. And I just felt so sad. Because I've never experienced this. Hmm. And I'm just one generational away, right from this is how all business was done. And I just longed to, to, to walk in a place where people would know me and connect with me and to me. [00:19:49] Shopping is just anxiety. I, I, I don't even, I don't want to go anyplace. Right. You know, it's just a process for me of being overwhelmed and disappointed. So I'm, you know, that's [00:19:59] Sarah: [00:20:00] the introvert in us, right? We're [00:20:01] Mark: like, no, thanks. Yeah. You and I, you and I had a special show on that a few years ago. Yeah. Right. [00:20:06] Yeah. Yeah. After I shop, I just wanna go home and crawl under a blanket. Oh yeah. So so, so it, it's this idea of. We've always had this inside of us. This it's, it's in our D n A, it's this tribal sort of thing is on a deep psychological and sociological level. We have got to belong. And Sarah, this was one of the elements in my life that. [00:20:35] Provoked me that drove me to write this book. A few years ago, there was a headline in the New York Times that said The Loneliest Generation. Mm-hmm. And was referring to Gen Z. And it just, it just broke my heart how our children and these teenagers, they're just suffering. Suffering. They're so isolated and lonely and depressed. [00:20:59] And[00:21:00] as I said, look You know, this is a business book, but it's also a way I think we can at least. Be aware of these issues in our world and think about how this can have a positive impact on, on, you know, everybody today, not just young people. Young people. They're finding their own communities. I talk about this at the end of the book. [00:21:22] You know, they're, they're, they're moving into their own communities and to the extent that. Companies, and not just companies. Why I say companies. It could be a nonprofit, it could be a university, you know, it could be, you know, whatever. A, a un an insurance company, a symphony, whatever, a nonprofit the, I think the com, the, the organizations that are the most human, which I know is something close to your heart. [00:21:48] The companies and the organizations that are the most belonging. How, how would it look like in your. Company in your culture, in your marketing, if you thought we're gonna be [00:22:00] the most belonging company, it, it, it, it sort of, you know, presents an interesting idea of how you might approach marketing in a, in a different way. [00:22:11] Yeah, [00:22:11] Sarah: absolutely. So, and, and that story about this Italian shab, it's not just a beautiful story, but it's a, an excellent business case. Yeah. Cause. You know, how hard is it for a small shop like that to survive and them still existing after 40 years? Well, It has to have to do [00:22:30] Mark: something. Community. It's, it's been well, they've been there since 1903. [00:22:36] Oh, yeah. Yeah. Not just, I was Generat four. Yeah. It had been 40 years since I had been there. Right. Yeah. But it's it's the same store. Yeah. They, they, yeah. It's, it's bigger now, but yeah. It's the same, it's the same store. [00:22:50] Sarah: Yeah. No, absolutely. I, I have a feeling like reading the book and I so resonate with this. [00:22:58] Because just like [00:23:00] anything in marketing marketer, marketers have a tendency to grab the latest Conta concept. So let's just say, okay, mark Schaffer, yay. He writes about communities, right? Yeah. And six months later, that's the latest marketing thing, right? It's like, just like we did with authenticity, just like we did with vulnerability, marketers are really good at jumping on these words and then abusing the crap out of them. [00:23:30] Yeah. And so what I really liked about your book, and you mentioned it several times, is this concept of letting go of control that. You cannot control a community growth. You cannot Yeah. You know, somehow market or Yeah. Kind of manipulate a community. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, talk to us about that. [00:23:56] Mark: Well, that's probably something you've learned [00:24:00] firsthand in your community, but, you know, give you a story that so when I started my community, I have a community On Discord, which I didn't really wanna be on Discord, but my community said, we wanna be on Discord. [00:24:12] So I'm giving up control. So here we are in Discord, thought, well, this is a community. This is a community that, you know, I kind of brought these people together and they're interested in the future of marketing. So they're probably interested in things I'm talking about, like personal branding and being a professional speaker and writing books. [00:24:34] So I created. My own little chat rooms thinking, oh, this is where we're gonna have interesting dialogue about these subjects. Now those rooms are the emptiest rooms on the whole site because they, they didn't wanna go there. They took it in completely different direction. They said, look, we wanna talk about the metaverse, we wanna talk about web three. [00:24:58] We wanna talk about chat, [00:25:00] G P T and artificial intelligence, and. They were right. We need to be talking about those things, right? They've taken me a whole new direction. It's, but that community has become my university. I'm learning from them. Almost every blog, post, podcast or speech I give the, a lot of the information and stories are coming out of that community, right? [00:25:24] So they're keeping me relevant because they're spread out all over the world. You know, teaching me what they're seeing is, is, is going on out there. [00:25:33] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. So, so that, that letting go of the control and, and almost like letting the community taking over that is Yeah. That is so big and it's, it's so, I think against what a lot of us business owners or marketers have learned where we, and I, and I also. [00:25:54] Remember you or mentioning that a community is definitely not an audience, [00:26:00] right? That distinction is so essential and yet, We see probably 90% of the people using the words interchangeably. They call a community, they, they say they have a community where they actually just have a free Facebook group where they sell their [00:26:16] Mark: programs. [00:26:17] Yeah. And I think the distinction is important because that's where the real power is. Right? You know, when people have an audience, And they say, this is my community. I say, well, the do do the people in the AU in your audience, do they know each other? Do they connect to each other? And the answer is no, cuz they're an audience. [00:26:37] Now I'm not. I mean, an audience is really important. I mean, I have an audience, right? And those are the people who buy things from me. So, I mean, audience is great, but. When people know each other and they build relationships, connections, and they collaborate and they do things together in new ways, that goodwill and [00:27:00] that emotion transfers to the brand. [00:27:04] This is one of the profound lessons I think in the book. I mean, I did a deep dig, deep dive on a lot of the psychology of community, the sociology of community, and almost suggests that, and this is hence at your point, that leadership in a community is like upside down compared to traditional marketing. [00:27:27] Yeah. You know leadership. And so instead of building the connection between the brand, And our audience. It's about building the connection between the audience members to create this community, because if you do that, it creates this layer of emotional switching costs. Mm-hmm. Like, these are my friends, this is my community. [00:27:49] I can never leave this brand cuz I never wanna leave this community. Right. So it, it, it, there's a lot of. Non-intuitive things about [00:28:00] community success That, that I'm, I'm learning firsthand. Yeah. [00:28:03] Sarah: And, and that's where I think you brought in the live event. And that's when I'm like, I. I'm a hundred percent convinced because I've been, you know, I had my community probably two, three years now, and I, what I've been learning is that there's a lot of unlearning first of all for the leader of the community, but then also for members of the community because I feel like as marketers we have kind of brainwashed. [00:28:34] Clients and customers into these membership site type things where people just come to consume content rather than to actually show up and Yeah. You know, express themselves and say, this is what works for me, what works for you, and collaborating, and so I've been kind of like, Yeah. Empower, giving power back to the people and saying, no, I [00:29:00] want you to show [00:29:01] Mark: up. [00:29:01] Yeah, that's a, that's, that's a really, really good point. You know, I, I had this conversation with a friend of mine last week. He has, has a community, but it's really an audience. Because it's, it's the, you know, he's, he's like creating content and it's premium content that you only get if you're in this community. [00:29:24] Right. And it, it, there's not really a lot of focus. I mean, that's a [00:29:28] Sarah: membership site. Yeah, it is. I think that type, yeah, that those three words, they're kind of like Yeah. Creating, yeah. [00:29:35] Mark: It's a membership site. Mm-hmm. You know, in my community. It is, it's free, it's open it, you know, it's, it's, it's like, you know, everybody is welcome to, to come in and give it a try. [00:29:47] You know, I, I do have like a, like a v i p section where it's like a small amount of money every year. And then, you know, we get, we have meetings with like legendary, legendary marketing people [00:30:00] and And that's a lot of fun. But I mean, at least 90% of the community is just there. It's free and we're just helping each other and it's very generous and very kind. [00:30:10] And you know, I made so many new friends and no many new connections. And of course, as I said, it's just become my number one place to, to learn about what's, what's new. I mean, I was really early. In the in the AI generated content around art, like mid journey and I mean, it was like people in my community said, have you seen this? [00:30:35] Get a membership, try this thing. And it was just like, oh my gosh. I mean this, like my, my jaw just dropped on the table. It was so unbelievable. And that, you know, I was early on chat G p t again because my community's like pulling me into these things, right? And, and, and I think that's a big part of being relevant today, not necessarily being an expert. [00:30:58] In everything, [00:31:00] but knowing enough to at least ask the right questions about everything. Just, you know, dabbling in the metaverse and web three and all these new things, and that the community's helping me remain relevant. What, what a gift is that? Now think about what that means to a big brand. Yeah. Is, is, is, you know Sarah, I saw this amazing quote. [00:31:21] Oh, I, I, I got hung on this. It was probably four years ago now. There's a quote by the C m O of Pepsi and he said the days of the big brand are over the big brand campaign. Campfires. Bonfires are over. And today it's about. Being relevant in cultural moments. And I thought that is fascinating, but what does that really mean? [00:31:54] How does that show up? And if you watch what some of these brands are doing now, they like, if there's like a [00:32:00] big award show like the Grammys or the Emmys or the Oscars and or, or there's like big festivals. One of the things Pepsi did for example, was there was some big like cultural festival. In, in New York and they created a soft drink, especially for this festival. [00:32:22] It tasted like zindel or something, right? I mean, I can't imagine how bizarre that would be, but it was a in a pink can. But you know, if, if you play this out, how can you be? What would be the platform to be relevant in these cultural moments? What would be more powerful than a community that's taking you into these moments? [00:32:45] Mm-hmm. Exposing you to these moments. Yeah. And, and I, I, so I think big company, small company solopreneur it, it, it, it's something that must be considered really for any kind of business right now. [00:33:00] Yeah, [00:33:00] Sarah: I absolutely agree. And, and, and I think one y you did say, okay, this is a business book, but business is so human today to come back to my favorite topic and, and yeah. [00:33:12] And so those are those humanizing moments, right? It's like, we're not, and that's why the. Let me build a community so that I can sell more stuff. Doesn't work, because that's not why humans gather. They don't, right. They don't come into a community to buy more. And so I think brands need to be super careful with that, you know, thing they, they can go completely wrong if they start selling into the community. [00:33:41] Mark: Yeah. That, that's the number one. Right. Reason why communities. Fail Yeah. Is because they say, okay, well, we'll start a community, but you know, this is gonna help us meet our, our quarterly sales numbers. And, you know, a company has to do that. I've, I've been in that world for a long time, but that's, that's gonna [00:34:00] drive your community away. [00:34:01] And it, you know, I, I think one of the gifts of this book, I hope people see this as a gift, is in chapter 10, I look at measurement. In an entirely new way. I mean, community and measurement. This has been just a, a thorn in the side of communities forever and. I give a case study in the book about these big sports drink brands, Gatorade versus Powerade, and I show the power of brand marketing where you sponsor events and you're, you know, you get connected to cultural moments and you know, maybe you sponsor the World Cup. [00:34:44] Well, okay, so if you sponsor the World Cup and your brand is everywhere. Does that sell more products? Yes. Can we measure that? No, [00:35:00] probably not. So I make this distinction between brand marketing and direct marketing. And what I'm showing is that almost every community is trying to manage it and measure it like direct marketing. [00:35:16] But if you do that, you, you miss the whole thing about trust. And loyalty and emotion and love and co-creation, collaboration and advocacy, you're missing the main event. Mm-hmm. And so you, if, if, if the community reports to the marketing department, which understands what brand marketing is, we kind of take that pressure off and, and we look at other measures. [00:35:43] That may not necessarily be directly tied to the bottom line, but we know it's a leading indicator of, of the bottom line. One of the biggest communities in the whole world is Sephora. Now Sephora is a cosmetics company. Do you have [00:36:00] Sephora over there? And We do. Yeah. They're, they're, they're based in Europe, I think. [00:36:03] Yeah. And they're French, right? I think maybe French. Yeah. They've got brick and mortar stores. In, in many, many countries, every major city in America has just a forest store, but 80% of their sales come from their online community. And their number one measure in their community is engagement because they see engagement as the leading indicator to to sales. [00:36:34] Mm-hmm. So it's, again, this goes back to what we were talking about earlier. It's like, This turns the traditional marketing mindset kind of upside down. But this, I think this is where the world needs to go. I think 20 years from now, maybe 30 years from now, we're, we're gonna, the, the young people leading businesses today are already moving this direction. [00:36:59] They're [00:37:00] already moving to community. 85% of startups today are leading with community as they're. Main marketing idea. 30 years from now, the world's gonna look back at the period we're in now. And we're gonna say, remember those days we used to spam people. We used to interrupt people, intercept people. We used to bother them. [00:37:22] We used to fill their mailboxes with all this direct mail that wasn't even relevant to them anymore. What were we thinking? Okay. I'm so happy we read Mark's book 30 years ago. [00:37:36] Sarah: No, I, I have to say, like, I, I really feel like you pivoted or you kind of. Created this new path with Marketing Rebellion already. [00:37:46] Yes, exactly. Right. And now this is like, you know, for whoever is ready for the next. Paradigm, basically. I'm, I'm glad you picked up. I'm so glad to have you kind of, you know, forged this [00:38:00] path for people like myself, because that is the, I wanna cry, like, this is the biggest pushback I always got is like, you can't measure it. [00:38:08] You can't measure humane marketing. Yeah. And I felt like saying, so what? You know? Yeah. Right. This is the only way we gotta go. Yeah. And, and so now to say, well then if you don't listen to me, listen to Mark [00:38:21] Mark: Schaffer. Right? Yeah. I mean, it is, it is. And look, I'm like, I'm a measurement junkie. You know, I've, a lot of people don't know this about me, but I actually have the, the equivalent of a master's degree in statistics. [00:38:33] So, I mean, I'm all about the numbers. But you know, there was a very powerful quote from Marketing Rebellion that I actually repeated in, in the new book, and it's this idea. That you can either keep, keep pace with the, with the pulse of our culture, or you can measure, you probably can't do both. I mean, I, I, I, I think Sarah, there, there's [00:39:00] no business leader. [00:39:01] Anywhere right now that can't be feeling a little overwhelmed by the by the amount and velocity of change. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, you, you've got to, to, you've gotta make that leap at some point to say, We've gotta go to market a different way. We can't keep holding. It's, it's a sickness. It literally is a sickness that we're holding on to this scaffolding of the old ways, you know, our, our relationships with ad agencies and producing, you know, glamorous television commercials. [00:39:35] Cause you know, cuz we can win an award for this and, and, and, and it, it's hard. To change our, our, our, the culture of our company to start embracing these new things. I think every company today should be taking at least 10% of their marketing budget and experimenting maybe on things you can't measure. [00:39:58] You have no, have no hope of [00:40:00] measuring to move more toward this human-centered. View of, of marketing. Because just because you can't measure it doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. I mean, there's a lot of things we can't measure. We can't measure, you know, wind, we can't, me, well, we can measure, we can't measure love, right? [00:40:19] We can't measure love. We can't measure. How good we feel on a, on a sunny day. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't go to the beach, doesn't mean we shouldn't fall in love. We need to take advantage of those things. And there are many things in marketing today, you know, we are in the early days, in the early stages, and especially young people today have entirely different expectations and of, of what they want from businesses and what they want from marketing. [00:40:47] And we've gotta start moving that way now. Gen Z. They're not babies. We just had the first member of Gen Z become elected to the United States Congress. Mm-hmm. [00:41:00] They're consumers, right? In the next five years, they're gonna be our leaders, right? And our procurement managers. So, and, and, you know, great entrepreneurs. [00:41:10] So, I mean, we need, we need to wake up. We really do. Yeah. We need to get rid of this, these sick, these sick, antiquated practices and, and wake up to, to, to deliver. You know, we're gonna stop doing things that people hate. Just stop it and then double down. How do you feel? [00:41:29] Sarah: Yeah. How, how do you feel about, so these, you know, the marketers that are out there now in, in, let's say in bigger companies, but even entrepreneurs, like, besides you, you reading your book, how are they, how are we gonna get them up to speed with these skills? [00:41:48] Because unfortunately, Unless they have the luck to have you at their, at a lecture in their university, they're still being taught marketing from the sixties. Yeah. [00:42:00] It's, it's such a big mismatch. And, and I see that in, in the online marketing sphere as well. We're still being marketed to like 20 years ago with all the shaming and manipulating and [00:42:12] Mark: on the lot. [00:42:13] Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting, Sarah, that a lot of the problem right now is actually even in the universities. I mean, the universities many universities are so far behind. Mm-hmm. You know, it, it, I, I think I. The slowest moving. Most bureaucratic organizations I've ever worked with are, are universities and these are the institutions sad that we're, that we're counting on to, to keep our, our students relevant. [00:42:42] And there's many young people coming outta universities that are, you know, connecting to me saying, I'm totally unprepared for the world. All this stuff I learned, nobody's even doing this stuff anymore. Yeah, so there's a lot of problems. There's a lot of issues. But here's the thing that gives me a lot of hope. [00:42:59] I. [00:43:00] First of all, there is change happening. Absolutely. Sarah. There have been people that have taken my Marketing rebellion book and said, this is the new framework. This is the way we're gonna go forward, not just small companies. There's a Fortune 100 company that, that contacted me and said, this is the way we need to go forward. [00:43:20] You know, how can you help us do this? So that's number one. Number two. I think the best leaders today, they wanna stay relevant. You know, to, if you are managing a brand, here is your mission. A brand is a never ending journey of relentless. Relevance, relevance, relevance, relevance, relevance to now, to this moment, to this year, to this culture. [00:43:49] That's it. That's your job. Yeah. And, and to be relevant, you, you, you, you, you've gotta move away from some of these things that people just see are [00:44:00] not relevant anymore. They don't even work anymore, right? So we've got to start reaching out. We've got to start experimenting. And I think what gives me hope is that, look, any, any. [00:44:12] Great professional today. They know this. They wanna be relevant, they wanna be relevant in their careers, they want their companies to be relevant and, and so I think my message is, is is gonna connect because it has to connect. [00:44:26] Sarah: Hmm. Yeah. I do feel also always come back to Covid, but I do feel like it has helped with human evolution and of consciousness and people like, you know, never. [00:44:41] Like before they, they're like, we're done with this spammy marketing stuff. Like the, the kind of, I call it the bullshit The word is escaping me, but, but like the trigger, you know, is likes meter. We know, we can tell that this is all fakes and that that's so, [00:45:00] so I do feel, yeah, there's this gap between consciousness that has risen and some of the, the marketing stuff that is just so outdated. [00:45:09] But yeah, like you, I totally believe in humanity and, and I be believe that people. Feel it, like you could just feel it that there's this craving for, for belonging and, and so [00:45:21] Mark: I'm just Yeah. Oh, that, I mean, you talk about measurement that is documented. I mean, it, it, it's, it's just coming at us in every, every day, in every way. [00:45:32] It's, it's all over the news here in America. And I mean, just like two weeks ago I saw this statistic that was just incredible that. Of the young people aged 18 to 24, 50 1% of them had sought medical treatment for a mental health issue. Hmm. The average for every other generation, including, you know, my generation is 24%. [00:45:59] [00:46:00] Wow. Yeah. For young people today, it's 51% and the average for every other generation is 24%. There's something really wrong here going on. Mm-hmm. And you know, look, my book is not Pollyannish saying, Hey, start a community and change the world. I'm saying, look, There's a, there's a real marketing urgency to consider new ideas like this. [00:46:26] And oh, by the way, it's, it's gonna do some, it's gonna do some good for the people in your community. [00:46:33] Sarah: Yeah. I, I really feel this more so than in other, in, in the other books that, that you come from this place of. Let go of the ego and tap into the love. That's there's some warmth, you know, even though it's a business book, I feel like there's some warmth reading this. [00:46:51] And then, yeah. And that's also the, the thing that we need. Now it's like, you know, how can you have a community that is Cold and [00:47:00] based on Eagle. Well that's not gonna work. So there definitely has to be yeah, the warmths as well. I wanna tap into also kind of the bridging it to the technology piece to, to wrap up, because it could almost be like a paradox, you know, it's like, wait, wait a minute, okay. [00:47:18] We have this problem with technology, young people, too much technology, and yet, You are talking about technology and AI and in web three in the last part of the book, so draws this picture, how do they fit together? [00:47:35] Mark: Well, first of all, thank you for reading all the way to the end of the book. [00:47:40] Sarah: That was a test, you [00:47:42] Mark: know? [00:47:42] And you know, I'll tell you some of the, some of the most interesting. Things I have in the book are at the end and, and I thought, gosh, maybe I should put this up more towards the beginning so people can make sure I make sure they see that well. So there are [00:48:00] two big issues I, I talk about at the end of the book, technological changes and sociological changes. [00:48:06] They kind of go together that. Are suggesting there are gonna be very new kinds of communities in the future, and businesses need to be waking up. Whether you have a community or you just want to tap into a community, a certain demographic of consumers, you've gotta be aware of what's going on. Number one, on the technology side. [00:48:31] We hear these mysterious words like Web three and NFTs and Metaverse, and the irony is there isn't really a good definition for any of those things. Maybe NFTs come, come closest, but you know, people have really wild, wide, varying ideas of what the Metaverse is gonna be or what Web three is going to be. [00:48:52] But when you cut through all the jargon, What you really end up with is new ways for [00:49:00] people to belong and especially young people today, are just surging into these areas. So we've gotta be aware of what's happening, what's going on there, how these communities are being created, and consider if that's one of the ways we need to be relevant. [00:49:18] On the sociological side, young people today, they want to be. Invisible. They don't wanna be found, they don't wanna be discovered. They don't wanna be criticized and bullied and and marketed to. So today, much of our marketing is dependent on social listening platforms that tap into Twitter and LinkedIn and Facebook. [00:49:45] Well, guess what? Young people today, they're not there. Mm-hmm. They're not there at all. It's amazing to me. Sometimes I do guest lectures at, you know, universities. Even like people in graduate school today, they're not [00:50:00] on LinkedIn. You know, it's, it's, it's crazy. So where are they? They're on Discord, they're on maybe they're on TikTok. [00:50:10] They're on you know, communities in the Metaverse, they're on Fortnite, they're on Twitch. Guess what? Social listening platforms aren't there. The, you know, millions and millions of people are having brand conversations in places we can't see, right? So, Just like you mentioned, marketing Rebellion was a bit of a wake up call. [00:50:34] I think this book, you know, part of it is a solution and part of it is a. You know, knock on the head as well to say the world is changing in rapid and unexpected ways, and we don't have all the answers right now, but be aware of what is going on. And, and like I said, gen Z, they're not babies. They're consumers, right? [00:50:56] With growing, growing, you know, [00:51:00] economic power. So this, this is not something to put off and we really need to think about this now. Yeah. [00:51:07] Sarah: Yeah. And, and, and I do also see this theme of letting go of control, right? The, the Gen Z doesn't want control, and so they want this connections of trust with the, with the not Bitcoin. [00:51:21] The other one. The, the NFTs blockchain. Yeah, the blockchain, you know, kind of like, okay, I can trust this connection because it's decentralized and, and so all of these topics that for us right now, I. They've most markers I would assume kind of sounds like Chinese. And so they have to, really, what you're saying is basically almost, you have to have one person per department stay on top of the new stuff, right? [00:51:51] It's like, yeah, yeah. [00:51:52] Mark: Go. Yeah. I, I, I, I think, you know, if you've got that kind of luxury, I mean, Sarah Wilson is someone I feature in my book. [00:52:00] She is former Facebook, former Instagram writes for Harvard Business Review, sort of looking at Gen Z culture and Zen Gen Z marketing strategies and, and she says rather boldly in the book, she said, I think it's time I. [00:52:16] Just to find the youngest person in your marketing department and say, pay attention to this because I don't understand it. [00:52:23] Sarah: Yeah. I saw that quote and I was like, lucky me. I have two sons, 16 and 19. They tell [00:52:29] Mark: me all the insights. Well, yeah. I, I, I, I mentor my, my kids are grown, but I mentor young kids. Yeah. [00:52:36] And I mean, I'm always asking them, what are you doing? What are you seeing? Exactly. Let me, Let me watch you play Roblox. Why did you do that? Yeah. Yeah. Why did you buy that? [00:52:47] Sarah: Yeah. And all the ad blockers, just like you said, right? It's like everywhere. Yeah. [00:52:51] Mark: I wanna, I, I gotta watch my, my kids I mentor play Fortnite cuz I die every time I can't. [00:52:57] It's like, what's the use? I die [00:53:00] immediately, which makes them laugh, but, you know, so I've gotta watch them. I gotta watch them do it. Yeah. [00:53:06] Sarah: Yeah. Wonderful. Well, I really appreciated this time with you, mark. I, I'm totally with you. Community is, is the way to go and I think we have a lot to learn from the communities, especially the marketers who think, you know, you just throw up a website and a pay button and then there you go. [00:53:26] You have your community. I think it's time to step back and come. Yeah. Step back from the ego and come with this humble learner approach to say, okay, what can I learn from this community? Yeah. That's the way I look at it. And it sounds like you do too. [00:53:42] Mark: Absolutely. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Sarah. It's always delight. [00:53:46] Yeah, likewise talking to you. It's nice to find such a, I, I think we're of one mind and one heart when it comes to marketing, so it's for sure good to find. It's good to find an ally out there. [00:53:58] Sarah: Thank you. Thank you. Do you [00:54:00] mention the names of your books again and your website so people can [00:54:03] Mark: find Yeah. [00:54:03] The books we talked about today are marketing Rebellion. We didn't mention known, but you know, we, the book on personal branding I think is extremely relevant today. I think personal branding, when you get down to it can be. It's, it's everything in, in many ways when it comes to our careers and marketing. [00:54:23] And then my new book is called Belonging to the Brand. My Community is the Last Great Marketing Strategy and you can find my blog, my podcast, my books on my social media connections@businessesgrow.com. [00:54:39] Sarah: Wonderful. I always have one last question. Mark, what are you grateful for today or [00:54:43] Mark: this week? Right now. [00:54:46] Well, I'm grateful for so much. I'm grateful for, for my, for my health right now. I've, I've gone through a, a, a week of of of illness here and I'm I'm grateful for we talked a lot about community, but I'm also really grateful [00:55:00] for the, your audience, my audience, the out there that, that supports me in so many ways. [00:55:05] That's, that's just incredibly humbling just to be interested in my work and support my work. So I'm grateful for, for you and your listeners today. Thank you, [00:55:15] Sarah: mark. Always a pleasure to hang out. [00:55:18] Mark: Yeah. Thank you, Sarah. [00:55:27] Sarah: Whether you are a community member or are thinking about creating your own community, I hope you found this episode with Mark. Really, really helpful. I know I did find out more about Mark and his work@businessesgrow.com and check out my two favorite books from him, marketing Rebellion. And belonging to the brand. [00:55:49] You can find them on his website or directly at Amazon. And if you're looking for a community of like-minded humane marketers, then why not join us in the Humane Marketing Circle? [00:56:00] You can find out more at Humane. Dot Marketing slash circle. You find the show notes of this episode@humane.marketing slash H 1 64, and on this beautiful page, you'll also find a series of free offers, such as my Saturday newsletter, the Humane Business. [00:56:19] Manifesto and the free, gentle confidence mini course, as well as my two books, marketing like we're Human and selling like we're human. Thanks so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares for yourself, your clients, and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers, so go be the change you want to see in the world. [00:56:43] Speak soon.[00:57:00]

In this episode of the Humane Marketing podcast, I talk to Meg Casebolt, founder of Love At First Search, about search engine optimization (SEO) and specifically about Cornerstone content. We discuss the basic steps to optimize a website for search, using empathy in keyword research, whether to aim for high traffic or low competition keywords, how to write Cornerstone content, the length and structure of the content, and how fast to expect results. We also touch on the evolution of search with the arrival of AI and so much more. Meg Casebolt is the founder of Love At First Search and host of the Social Slowdown podcast. Meg loves to help businesses spend less time trying to hack the algorithms and instead creates SEO content that attracts your ideal audience to your website while helping entrepreneurs cut their dependency on social media for their business visibility. It was never her vision to run an agency, but as her reputation grew, she made the decision to build a team of women that could support these mostly women-owned businesses in a powerful, feminist way - to help them climb the ranks and get their digital voices heard in a crowded marketplace. Today we're talking about websites, or more specifically about generating traffic to our websites. Meg and I also discuss: How SEO is combining the tech with the human need Basic steps to get your website optimized for search Keyword research - myths and truths How we can use empathy in our keyword research Whether to write content for the keywords or for our people How Meg thinks search will evolve (with the arrival of AI) And much more Ep 163 transcript [00:00:00] Sarah: Hello, humane marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non-pushy. [00:00:23] I'm Sarah z Croce, your hippie turn business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneer. Mama Bear of the Humane Marketing Circle and renegade author of marketing like we're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you are ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like-minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what. [00:00:52] Works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like-minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a Zoom Circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way. [00:01:16] We share with transparency and vulnerability what works for us. And what doesn't work so that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane.marketing/circle, and if you prefer one-on-one support from me. My humane business coaching could be just what you need, whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book. [00:01:47] I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my own. Almost 15 years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this podcast, [00:02:00] wait until I show you my mama bear qualities as my one-on-one client can find out more at humane.marketing/coaching. [00:02:10] And finally, if you are a marketing impact pioneer and would like to bring friends back, podcast, have a look at offer conversation on my website, website Promotion Humane, and I'm talking to Casebolt about seo. Search engine optimization and specifically about cornerstone content, which Meg will explain in this episode. [00:02:34] If you're a regular here, you already know that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. But if you're new here, you probably don't know what I'm talking about, but you can download your one page marketing plan with the humane marketing version of the seven Ps of marketing at Humane. [00:02:54] Dot marketing slash one page. That's the number one in the word [00:03:00] page. And this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different piece for your business. So it's not a blueprint where it tells you what to do, but it really invites you to think for yourself and, uh, think about these different peas for your business. [00:03:19] So here's a little info on Meg. Meg Case Vault is the founder of Love at First Search and host of the Social Slowdown podcast. Meg loves to help businesses spend less time trying to hack the algorithms, and instead creates SEO content that attracts your ideal audience to your website while helping entrepreneurs cut their dependency on social media for their business visibility. [00:03:45] It was never her vision to run an agency, but as her reputation grew, she made the decision to build a team of women that could support these mostly women owned businesses in a powerful feminist way to help them climb the [00:04:00] ranks and get their digital voices heard in a crowded marketplace. So today we're talking about websites or more specifically about generating traffic to our websites. [00:04:11] We address how. SEO is combining the tech with the human need. Basic steps to get your website optimized for search keyword research, myths and truths, how we can use empathy in our keyword research, whether to write content for the keywords or for our people. How Meg thinks search will evolve with the arrival of AI and so much more. [00:04:39] So, are you ready for seo for Humane Marketers? Well, then let's talk to Meg. Hey Meg, good to speak to [00:04:47] Meg: you. It's so good to be here with you. Thank you for having me, Sarah. [00:04:51] Sarah: Thanks. We just recorded another episode where I was the guest on your podcast and now you're here. I just love doing those. It's, it's when you [00:05:00] really get a feel for the human, you know? [00:05:02] It's not like, oh, we're just pitching each other for being a podcast guest, and then we never speak again this week. Like, yeah, we get to know each other a little bit, [00:05:11] Meg: so, And I think when you find somebody that you resonate with, the reciprocity comes naturally versus more of a, you know, well, you know, you scratch my back, I scratch, yours doesn't feel good, but hey, this, we have different things to say to different audiences, but there's a lot of alignment in there, so let's talk to both of these different groups. [00:05:30] It feels really good, you know? [00:05:32] Sarah: Exactly. It's not just like, oh, because. Yeah, you pay me now. I pay you back. [00:05:38] Meg: Yeah, that's true. Collaboration versus reciprocity, right? Yeah. Yeah. [00:05:43] Sarah: Mm-hmm. So your business is called, uh, love at First Search, and I just want you to start there and, and explain what that means. Well, I kind of gave it away in the intro, but still, uh, tell us, you know, how he came up with [00:06:00] that and. [00:06:01] And just, yeah, the word love already gives it away. Right? So like, tell us, give us more info [00:06:07] Meg: on that. Sure, so love it. First Search is a search engine optimization firm where we're helping small businesses mostly to be found on search engines like Google or Bing, but also YouTube is a search engine and any podcast, wherever you're listening to this podcast, that's also a search engine. [00:06:26] So we're talking a lot to content creators, um, about how to bring in people who. Want to hear your message, how to create content that makes them feel. Seen and valued and appreciated and understood. Uh, a lot of search engine marketing is like a numbers game. It is what is the keyword that you can that has the right amount of search volume, and also it has the low keyword difficulty and not too competitive in terms of our AdWords numbers. [00:06:59] And like, [00:07:00] there's a lot of metrics around it. Um, And I've had several clients come to me and say, I tried search before and my consultants all tried to push me in a direction that didn't feel good. Um, and so what we are trying to do at Love at First Search is show up in the search results that feel like we understand what our clients need from us, not just what is the most obvious opportunity we want it to feel relevant. [00:07:30] To what people need versus just kind of a spray and pray approach to marketing. [00:07:36] Sarah: Yeah, I love that. That is such a more human and humane way of explaining just, just the word s e o alone. Right? If you hear that, and I know that there's a lot of people. Who have never heard of seo, right? Mm-hmm. They have their websites, they're coaches or healers or, or consultants even. [00:07:58] Uh, and so [00:08:00] whenever we use an abbreviation that assumes that they are supposed to know what it means, but they don't, and then they feel really embarrassed and they're like, oh, I, should I be doing that? What's that? Mm-hmm. Right? And so the, the way you explain it makes so much more sense. Also for people who, who are in humane business because it's, it's not just, it's not just a keyword. [00:08:25] It, it is about this idea of resonating with ideal clients, right? So, yeah, I love [00:08:31] Meg: that. And I think a lot of times when people think about surge engine optimization, about s e o as a marketing tactic, um, they see it as a mass marketing tactic of how many people can I get in front of? Um, but. As we know from the ways that kind of the pendulum is swinging in the digital marketing world, it's not necessarily about quantity anymore. [00:08:55] Um, if you're running, I mean, it is for specific, some specific types of businesses. If you're [00:09:00] running sort of more of a blog or content platform type of business where the number of podcast downloads that, that you get impacts your sponsorship packages and the number of paid views that you get impacts your, you know, cost per visit, like, There is a place for those kinds of businesses where you can be a, a free resource because you have these, these backup monetization options. [00:09:24] But for so many of us, that's not how we're getting paid. We're getting paid because we are service providers or we sell very specific products to a small group of dedicated people. [00:09:39] Sarah: Hmm. Yeah. [00:09:40] Meg: And often the solutions that we're helping our, our audience with are not mass market solutions. We're not Nike trying to sell shoes to everybody. [00:09:50] We're like, I wanted to sell, you know, shoe insoles to joggers who, uh, have planter fasciitis, right? Like we get really [00:10:00] targeted down and we solve. Problems that people have. So why not? When those people are having those problems, why not be the ones that show up and help help those people in your audience to feel like they're understood? [00:10:15] Sarah: Yeah, that is such a good point that you, that you mention people are humans, right? Because what we usually hear is traffic or generating traffic. But when you think about traffic, you either see like, you know, a huge traffic jam on a highway and what you see there is cars. You don't see humans or on the internet, you think of traffic. [00:10:43] I don't see humans, when I think of internet traffic, I just, right. See like. Empty nothing. You know, it's like maybe wires or, or something like [00:10:51] Meg: that. And so much of the, the noun choices, the word choices that are used in the mass marketing approach and, uh, you've said like hype marketing or [00:11:00] bro marketing, like the, the phrases and choices that we make are traffic and users and page views and visitors. [00:11:09] They're, it's very, um, The leads, right? Like they're not, they're prospects. Um, especially when we get into like really metric space where it's like, these are the marketing qualified leads and these are the sale qualified leads. And they're not even people anymore. They're just s qls. Right? Like, and there's, there is a place for trying to figure out where your marketing resonates and where people may or may not fit for your messaging. [00:11:32] Right? But when we start to zoom out that far, we lose sight of Sure. You have. Hundred thousand users on your website. Every single one of those is a human sitting at a computer scrolling through your [00:11:49] Sarah: words. Exactly. Yeah. So you talk about using empathy in keywords, and so that already is kind of like I. [00:11:58] Feels like an oxymoron. It's like [00:12:00] what? Empathy keywords, how does that go together? I'm, I'm seeing like spreadsheets with empathy and I'm like, Hmm. How does that work? So tell us how that works. [00:12:10] Meg: Uh, I think, I think the core of how we need to do marketing better is not just, you know, look at the spreadsheet and figure out the easiest solution, but truly understanding. [00:12:26] Why our businesses exist, what they do for our audience, and like how we can really start to have that connection with them. And a lot of times, I don't know exactly how to explain this. Let me, you know, a lot of times when people are having some sort of problem or issue, they don't necessarily want to ask their friends for help. [00:12:53] They don't want to go on Facebook. Um, if, if you're a health coach and you're helping clients who have [00:13:00] Crohn's disease, Then they have a lot of symptoms that are not things that you want your friends to know about. We'll just leave that as like a nice clean answer there. Um, but when people have those kinds of problems, they go to search engines and they go like, I'm having a constant stomach ache. [00:13:19] Right? That's the nicest, cleanest way to say it. Um, there's a lot of poop keywords out there, so I'll try not to get too heavy in that. But, um, you know, the. They don't want people to know, but Google feels like a safe place to get slightly unbiased answers to questions that you don't wanna go on Facebook and say to people like, I'm struggling in my marriage and I'm thinking about getting a divorce, or, my child is struggling with this and, and like, there's a lot of pride that people have and they want to present themselves to their friends, to their, their networks as having it all together, but, When it comes to search, that's a safe place to ask the questions [00:14:00] that you don't feel safe asking in other places. [00:14:02] Sarah: Yeah, it, it reminds me of an exercise we do in the marketing, like we're human program where we look at the empathy map. Yes, you've seen this, right? Mm-hmm. Where you think about your ideal client and you, um, think of what they say, think, feel, and do. Mm-hmm. I don't know if I got the order correctly, but, but yeah, it's exactly that. [00:14:24] It's like, what are they thinking or, or what are they Googling would be a good way also to, to say it, right. What are they Googling? But they're never gonna say that in a first session with you, right? Mm-hmm. It's like, it's the embarrassing things that. If you then, and I guess what you're saying is where the empathy shows up is if you then write a post that in addresses that issue with empathy, not with shaming, of course. [00:14:54] Mm-hmm. Then they feel heard and seen because they just found a. The solution and [00:15:00] they found the human who offers that solution. [00:15:03] Meg: Yeah, sometimes it's not even like the post absolutely can be empathetic and that will help with the conversion, but just seeing the name of the post show up in those search results can sometimes be a validation of the experience. [00:15:16] Mm-hmm. You know, I was talking yesterday with a play therapist in Virginia and some of her keywords will be very obvious, like, Play therapy, Virginia, right? Like her specific town. Um, she's works specifically with adoptive families, so it's like play therapy for adoptive children. Um, so sometimes the keywords can be very clear, but we also tried to get to the empathy of it. [00:15:37] What are the problems that these children are exhibiting? That they're getting the calls from school saying Your child seems to have anxiety, or the preschooler is biting. What are those things that they, the, the parent doesn't know where to go. The parent doesn't know what to do next. Or the, they're, they're like, oh, my kid's [00:16:00] about to get kicked outta preschool cuz they're hitting and bit, what can I do to help them? [00:16:03] Right? Like when people have problems they go seeking solutions. And if you can be that port in the storm, that safe place to say, I know what to I'm, yeah, my kid bit too. I know how to help them work through that. I know how to help you as a parent, work through it with them. You're not alone, because just by the fact that this is showing up in those search results, it proves that I've been there. [00:16:30] Mm-hmm. And I can help you with it. There's a certain amount of connection that happens in just having your experience acknowledged. [00:16:38] Sarah: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. From there, you then, So, so now we're kind of, kind of learning, okay, to do keyword research, but coming from this place of empathy, right? Mm-hmm. So all of a sudden it doesn't just feel like this left brain analytical mm-hmm. [00:16:57] Uh, activity because we're bringing in the right brain [00:17:00] and actually thinking, well, what would they be searching for? How can I really show empathy and help them with their problem? So we're doing the research, uh, the keyword research. What's the next step? So how, or, or maybe already still like. You talked quickly before, volume and, uh, difficulty of, of competition and all that. [00:17:25] Tell us what we need to look for, uh, in these keywords. [00:17:29] Meg: Well, so let's define keyword research before we leap too much into sort of the strategy behind it. Right. So when we, keyword research is another one of those phrases that can feel overwhelming because people go, oh, that's a lot of spreadsheets. Um, keyword research is. [00:17:44] Figuring out what people are typing into Google. That's it. And those phrases that you sit down and you type in, or you know, most of us are doing it from our phones now sometimes us are speaking into Siri for it, right? But, [00:18:00] um, whatever you are asking, Google is your keyword. So it doesn't have to be one word, it can be a phrase, it can be a question, it can be a statement. [00:18:10] Um, anything that you can search is a keyword word. Now the next step, like you said, is to figure out for not necessarily every page on your website, but every page on your website can be found for different keywords. So it's not that you have to be found for, you know, humane business coach, and that is the only phrase and you have to put it on every page of your website so that people who are looking for that can find that one phrase and you have to put all your eggs in that basket. [00:18:42] Um, this is not the Lord of the Rings. There is no like one keyword to rule them all. This is an, and one of the reasons I love SEO and I feel like I can talk about this with you, is like it's an abundance mindset. Mm. Mm-hmm. This isn't a scarcity thing where like, I have to be found for SEO consultant or nobody [00:19:00] will ever find me. [00:19:01] This is what are all the different on-ramps to this highway that different people need at different points, but the destination is the same. Right. Yeah. So you can, you can be found for that one phrase of humane businesses or gentle marketing. Like you can have those sort of branded search terms where you have spent time to build a brand around the titles of your books and the titles of your business and the, you know, your community name. [00:19:30] Like those are branded search, but we also have search terms that are just like, what do people need from us? What questions do they ask and each of those concepts each, I call them keyword clusters, but each of those search intents can go to a different page of your website. It doesn't all have to filter in through your homepage. [00:19:56] Your copy doesn't have to convert all from right there. You have [00:20:00] the opportunity to create infinite number of entry points. So every podcast episode that you record can be found for a hundred different search terms. How cool is that? It's very cool. [00:20:14] Sarah: It's very cool if you, if you, if you know how to do that keyword research. [00:20:20] Mm-hmm. Because I think also maybe what you need to explain is this idea of, you know, the volume and the, the difficulty of actually ranking. Because 15 years ago when I started out, it was relatively okay. You know, you could rank. Highly, pretty not, I'm not gonna say easily, but it was definitely much easier than today. [00:20:44] Today we have so much content out there. You do have to have a certain knowledge about, you know, what do people search, how much do they search for that? And then also how much content does already exist. [00:21:00] That is. Optimized, I think you would say for that keyword word, right? [00:21:04] Meg: Yeah. You just nailed the, the three big things is what do people search for? [00:21:08] How many people search for it and how many other people have written about it. Um, and that's where some of those search metrics come into place is figuring out, not just like, what are people saying, but if I were to target this idea, could I actually show up for it? Right? And so sometimes people aim too high. [00:21:30] And they go, I'm gonna try to be found for online business without that recognition of, but why? Mm-hmm. I'm like, why that phrase? Oh cuz I'm an online business coach. Um, okay. Cool. But what do you, what do you help people with? What do you do differently? What are your what, how, what about your approaches different? [00:21:50] Um, we have a student right now in one of our programs who is, she calls herself a, a conscious business coach for changemakers, which is not a phrase that. [00:22:00] Anybody would know to look for, right? Um, but she does really well in a post that she has about why she doesn't do discovery calls and how you can run, uh, a more, um, streamlined and better feeling business if you have an alternative to discovery calls. [00:22:16] And the phrase that shows up is alternative to discovery calls. Hmm. [00:22:22] Sarah: Wow. Go figure. Yeah, [00:22:23] Meg: sometimes it doesn't have to be, you know, hundreds of thousands of people searching for a keyword. But those people who are going to Google after doing another discovery call that tanked, and they're going, oh, how do I stop doing discovery calls? [00:22:37] And they find her website. But [00:22:38] Sarah: here's the question. How did she come up? Like how did she think of. Using that as a keyword, or was that just a fluke? And then she noticed, and [00:22:49] Meg: sometimes it's a fluke, right? Sometimes you stumble into a phrase and you sudden, and you can use the metrics to figure out what that is. [00:22:58] I'd be happy to teach people how to go into their [00:23:00] Google search console and go, you know, there are ways to know exactly what every single phrase is that people find you for, but sometimes. In her case in particular for Caroline, it was like, I just know that people would come into that and then go to my contact form and then say, I found you through this blog post. [00:23:17] Nice. It doesn't always have to be this like automated user flow. What's the conversion rate from each landing page? It's important information. Yeah. But sometimes you can get the same information from a conversation. Yeah. [00:23:32] Sarah: So [00:23:33] Meg: nice. And then if you're trying to figure out what to create next that might attract those ideal clients, like listen to your ideal clients. [00:23:42] What else don't they like about what's happening in the online, in her case, in the online or your case too? Probably. Like what's, what are those things that they don't like? Okay. Create blog posts or podcast episodes about your unique approach to it, right? Yeah. [00:24:00] And your content can come either from, you know, the key being keyword driven. [00:24:07] Which is making sure that you know that exact phrase that people are looking for and then putting it when you're, when you're publishing the document for the first time, you can say, okay, I'll put this in my SEO title and my, my blog post title and my subheadings and my alt text. Like there's a way to do it that way, but I find that for a lot more of my kind of heart-centered marketers that I work with, it can be easier to create something. [00:24:33] Think about what would people search. If they needed this, include some of that thought process into the post and then hit publish and wait and see what happens. [00:24:45] Sarah: Hmm. Okay. [00:24:47] Meg: It doesn't always have to be driven from the keywords. It can be what resonates and then how can I optimize what's already working? [00:24:56] Sarah: Right. Yeah. So, so flipping it on its head [00:25:00] and starting. Instead of starting with the strategy, starting with the empathy, because you're writing content that your ideal clients, uh, will resonate with, and then seeing, okay, this works. This one doesn't. Let me take the one that works and make it even better and more optimized for the, the search [00:25:19] Meg: engine. [00:25:20] Exactly. And it can also, if you, if you, if, if that approach. Resonates with you, then it can also feel a lot more connected to the needs of your clients and take away some of that perfectionism. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's absolutely a feeling when you have some sort of like, I'm gonna spend so much time writing these blog posts, and I wanna make sure that they show up and search results right away, and if I don't get it right, then what's the point? [00:25:49] Right. But if we're creating for our audience first and then optimizing for search second, then you know what it, [00:26:00] this is everything about marketing is the 80 20 rule, right? The Pareto principle, that 20% of your work creates 80% of your results. So if you publish things and you also send them out to your newsletter and you, you know, share them wherever your audience is and 20% of them bring in search traffic, then maybe that's. [00:26:21] That's actually very normal. Um, but then when people land on the pages that are working for search, then you can link to them to the other ones that are still valuable, that are still important, but are still part of your unique approach to things. And once people arrive on your website, then they can go explore that information. [00:26:40] We don't need to be found for every search result. We need to be introduced and then let your website tell your story. [00:26:49] Sarah: Basically what you're saying is you, you don't need every page or every block post to bring you, you know, all this traffic because if you just have one or [00:27:00] two or three or, or I know, obviously the more the better. [00:27:03] But if you just have a few that really work and. And they can really work. Like, they can really work. Some of them is like, oh my God, you know, all of a sudden you're like getting tons and tons of new signups to your, to your, uh, freebie or whatever. Mm-hmm. So, so yeah, that's enough, right? It's, and then like you said, you just link it to your other blog posts so that, um, so that people could still discover more, more content. [00:27:31] I guess that also leads us to this idea of. Cornerstone pages because that's another thing you mentioned when we, uh, exchanged by email. Um, so yeah, was what you described already, maybe an example of a cornerstone page where you linked to other. [00:27:49] Meg: Not, not quite. There is, there is what it is. Something relevant there, so. [00:27:53] Mm-hmm. Um, what we were talking about earlier with some of these metrics around, you know, there are certain amounts of keywords [00:28:00] that a lot of people are looking for, but other people have talked about, so it can be harder to rank for those terms. Right. Um, It can be really helpful if you're in that boat to create a longer piece of content that shares everything that you've created on a topic. [00:28:16] So you know, you might create a, a piece of cornerstone content called the Humane Approach to Online Business Marketing. The ultimate, well, you can almost think of these as like ultimate guides. Everything you need to know about this topic, humane marketing, one-on-one, whatever we wanna call that post, right, where you've talked about humane marketing on. [00:28:39] Every page of your website, right? Every single one. Well, maybe this is not maybe the right phrase for you because it is your domain name, so it'll go to your homepage. Well, we can talk about that. I'm, I'm spitballing here a little bit. Um, but let's, let's think about that core value that you have or that core idea, that category that you're talking about. [00:28:56] There. There can be a point where you can create an outline of what [00:29:00] are the, the framework, what are the principles that I'm talking about all the time, and what have I already created that supports this? Mm. And then you can create one ultimate guide that covers all of that. And if we're talking about a phrase like humane marketing, gentle marketing, ethical marketing, that's sprinkled throughout your website, Google doesn't always know like, what is the right page? [00:29:28] Mm-hmm. To share that information. Um, But if you have a guide on your website that's longer, that links to all those other things and that all those other places around the website where you've talked about that, it links back to that guide, that cornerstone content. Sometimes it's called silo content. I. [00:29:48] Then that is a clear indicator to Google that that is the place on your website for that term. And you can rank for terms that a lot of other people have talked about. If they haven't gone [00:30:00] into the level of detail that you have in that guide, then you can like, Jump up ahead of them in those search results because you've created something that is better quality that positions you as a, an authority on that topic, and that proves to Google that you know what you're talking about. [00:30:16] And so that's what we're talking about with cornerstone content. And I often talk to podcasters who are like, I have a hundred episodes talking about this particular topic. And I'm like, okay. Create, you know, an overview guide. Basically take take a, a. Piece of thread and tie a narrative through the most important things that you're talking about. [00:30:36] Mm-hmm. Um, for my podcast, we created a cornerstone guide called, um, mental Health, entrepreneurship and Social Media, because nobody's talking about those three pieces together. Right. Yeah, [00:30:49] Sarah: I love that. And so did you research whether there is search volume for mental health and social media? [00:30:57] Meg: Yeah, so it was conversations that I was having [00:31:00] on the podcast already with therapists and social workers and you know, like I was having those conversations already. [00:31:07] The content was already created. Mm-hmm. And I knew that it was a topic that we wanted to discuss more. And I was starting to see some of these keywords show up in our metrics around mental health and entrepreneurship or around social media. Anxiety was a phrase that we targeted for that particular page. [00:31:25] Um, And so we wrote a longer post that was just like, here are the entrepreneurs that we've interviewed who talked about anxiety. Here are the ones that, uh, and, and here are the mental health professionals that we've interviewed. And we took poll quotes from their episodes and then linked to those episodes. [00:31:41] So if people are looking for that, they, it's basically like, almost like a playlist, right, of what's already been created. But instead of just a list of hero, the things that we've created in this category, we're telling a story in that post. So here's what [00:31:56] Sarah: I just finished, um, is, uh, a hugely [00:32:00] long, uh, post about humane marketing words we love. [00:32:04] Ooh. And so it goes through all these wor words like abundance and intuition, integrity and conscious, like all of these words that I use all over the book. And then I linked, yeah, to. Podcasts or, or, or blog posts or so. So would that be an example of a, uh, cornerstone page? Totally. Even though there, there's probably no search volume for humane marketing words yet, right? [00:32:33] Meg: So ye yes and no. So the thing about cornerstone content is that it is a guide in one place. And in your case, it's almost like a thought leadership. Mm-hmm. Piece of cornerstone content so that when more people become aware of these terms, um, they can then, like Google will already know that it exists. [00:32:52] You're ahead of the curve, hopefully. Mm-hmm. Um, but the great thing about it is that. Now it exists. [00:33:00] Right. And sure, Google can find it and they can send you traffic for it, but it's still an incredibly powerful asset in your business, right? [00:33:08] Sarah: Yeah. It's thinking of using it like in the menu bar, um, like as a start here or [00:33:13] Meg: something like that. [00:33:14] Mm-hmm. I would say a start here button, I could say, I could see you calling it almost like a, a term glossary. Mm-hmm. Like a humane marketing term glossary. Like what? What is it? It's use that people might need from it. They might go, oh, what are all these terms? Like how would you define these things? [00:33:29] Right. Um, So you could include it on your homepage and say, come check out our humane dark marketing glossary. Mm-hmm. To give people that idea of what is that resource for them? Right? Yeah. Um, but then also every page on your website that is linked from that, that glossary, you can then link back to it. Mm mm-hmm. [00:33:51] So if somebody listens to your episode about abundance, And then goes to the show notes, and then checks out the glossary, and then [00:34:00] goes and listens to the one about, uh, consciousness. Right? Like it can be a, a piece of, sometimes they'll call it hub content, right? Yeah. That it doesn't have to just be there for Google. [00:34:11] It can be a really great navigation tool. Um, and maybe, I mean, maybe you wanna turn it into a downloadable PDF that people can have as a [00:34:20] Sarah: guide. Right. Yeah. That would be another option. Exactly. I saw that's that's what you have because it's so long. Right? It's like, well, well you want a PDF of [00:34:29] Meg: that? Yeah. [00:34:30] When people get to, we have a cornerstone guide on the Loveit first search website. No, I was talking about the podcast, um, cornerstone a minute ago. But we have one on our loveit first search site that is just like, here's our 15 step approach to creating a really search friendly website. Um, And the, the post itself is 7,500 words. [00:34:48] It is a short novel. Um, it's a novel. It's, it's a novel. It's a blog post novella. You don't have to write that much. I, this is what I do. Right? Like, this is what we do best. Um, yours does not. [00:35:00] Absolutely. It can be, it can be. I. 1500 words and still be considered cornerstone content. Right. So don't feel like that's the norm. [00:35:05] Mm-hmm. Um, this was a labor of love that we put together last year. It took me 50 hours to create That's not normal. Yeah, right. But knowing that it is a 7,500 word blog post, our calls to action on the cornerstone guide for the first third of it, for the first like 2000 words is like, Yeah, this is really long. [00:35:25] Do you just want me to email this to you? Do you want me to, to just, so we send it as a pdf d and then we send follow up emails that, you know, we turned it into an automated funnel to make, to break it down and make it feel more reasonable to consume, um, where we break it into a three, sort of like a three act process and then provide those. [00:35:45] Like resources in those documents and each one has a video. And so we created it into more of an opt-in guide. But that's not, not everyone has to go to that level of extreme. Right. But our, our opt-ins are insane on it. It's like, uh, our op, we get a [00:36:00] 7% opt-in rate when people land on that guide. Because it has value. [00:36:05] It doesn't always get surge traffic because there's so much on the internet about web design, but when people land on that page, they join my email list, they join my programs, like it converts very well for us, and it's. It tries to meet people at every stage of that process and let them choose where they are in that process and not feel like you have to start from step one. [00:36:26] So there's a lot of, you know, when you're creating a guide based on your approach or your framework, it can be hard to figure out how to organize it. But what you just said about having a glossary, like that's, that's a way of proving that you are using these terms and sharing where they fit on your website and allowing people to go exploring in a way that feels good. [00:36:48] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. No, I really like this idea of, of first helping your clients, but then also hopefully helping your, uh, helping the search engines, right. [00:37:00] Understanding, more learning about your unique approach. So, so yeah. That, that really feels good. Um, can you have more than one cornerstone content? Yeah. Or is that just like, you have to have one piece and that's it. [00:37:16] Meg: No, anytime that you have sort of a core idea mm-hmm. You can create cornerstone content around it. Um, some people, and again, this comes back to like, do you start from the keywords or do you start from the content, um, you know, the chicken or the egg of all of it. Some people who have been creating for a long time, they could go through, audit their content, maybe just kind of note like what are the, the themes that continue to show up? [00:37:41] Right. And come up with an idea for a cornerstone guide. Um, And then those people who already have all that content might then create an outline and say, you know, based on what's here, I can see the the gaps. I can go create more content, I can build this up. Right? And then there are gonna be the [00:38:00] folks who are like, I already know that I wanna talk about, you know, mental health and social media. [00:38:04] So here are the topics that I wanna talk about, and I'm gonna go create each of those. Podcast episodes. I'm gonna go seek out the guests that I need. I'm gonna create the guide in order. There's no right or wrong way to create these. It's just more of take the building blocks. And build a wall. Mm-hmm. [00:38:22] Sarah: Yeah. What I like most about talking with you just now is that you, you hand out these permission slips as well. It's like, no, you don't have to start with the keyword research because, um, before we started, Talking, I, I went on to Neil Patel again and saw all his videos and I'm like, I just, no, I can't go back there. [00:38:46] Like, it's [00:38:47] Meg: just, it's so prescriptive. It's so, it's so [00:38:50] Sarah: prescriptive and it's just like all this Yeah. Kind of masculine energy and Yeah. Spreadsheets and all. I'm like, it's just not for me. [00:39:00] But to hear you say, well, you can start it with the content and then start to optimize it. That, yeah, that feels really, really good. [00:39:08] So thanks for handing us, it's so [00:39:11] Meg: slip, it's so clear that I'm neuro divergent. Right. Like that there are all these rules and as, as an industry, it's very much a like linear approach to the way of doing things. And my brain is just not linear. Mm-hmm. And I don't want it to be linear. And there are a lot of rules out there that are like, Here, do this checklist, follow this plan, get these results, re improve on the results. [00:39:34] And I sit down to do the plan and I'm like, but I don't wanna, [00:39:38] Sarah: no, it's like, I'm a rebel. I don't wanna follow your, your silly [00:39:42] Meg: rules. Yeah. And like where is the space in that for inspiration? Where is the space in that? For intuition? Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes the best, the best content that you create is not the stuff that's in the plan. [00:39:53] It's the stuff that you stumble into because you're following your gut. Yeah. [00:39:59] Sarah: And we [00:40:00] talked earlier on, on your show about, you know, chat C p t and, and AI and all of that. Imagine now with how easy it is to just tell chat. C p t, write me a blog post St. Six steps for blah, blah, blah. And we're gonna have be bombarded while with all this like, inhumane, boring content that just feels like, you know, the same guy wrote it. [00:40:26] Um, and so imagine now, You showing up with your content. That starts from within. That starts from the heart, and sure. Once you posted it, you're gonna pay attention to some keywords, but it doesn't start with that. How different is that gonna feel? Right. To the reader? It's completely different. It really is. [00:40:47] Meg: Yeah. And that's what can set you apart, right? Yeah. That's where, that's where all of this empathy comes into play is right. You can sound like everyone else, but the thing that's going to set you [00:41:00] apart, the, and you, the thing that's going to make your quality matter more than someone else's quantity is your humanity, right? [00:41:10] Sarah: Yeah. Mm. That's a nice line, I think to end mic drop. Yeah. Wonderful. Well, this has been, this has been really joyful and fun. Thanks so much for hanging out. Please do tell people where they can get that really, really long. PDF that they need to download. [00:41:33] Meg: You don't have to go download it. You can just go browse around. [00:41:36] You don't have to. That's the other thing about me. I'm like, you don't have to do anything. I'm very like rebellious in nature. Um, if you would like to find out more, you can head over toLove@firstsearch.com. We have an SEO starter kit right there that can help you start to get at the I your head. [00:41:50] Wrapping around this idea of keyword research. You can check out our SEO website guide, which is that long. Forum guide of, you know, pop in wherever you are in the framework and [00:42:00] figure out where it makes sense to, uh, to optimize your website. Um, whether you're creating it from scratch or it's been up for years, there are steps in there that make sense based on where you are progressively. [00:42:11] Um, we also do have a podcast and you can come listen to Sarah on the podcast cause we just recorded that. Um, that is called the Social Slowdown Podcast, so you can find that on whatever podcast device you're listening to or social slowdown.com. [00:42:24] Sarah: Wonderful. I always have one last question, and that is, what are you grateful for today or this week? [00:42:30] Meg: I mean, today you and I had to push things around because my, my elder son has been struggling in school, and so the school actually brought in a clinically trained psychologist to observe him in class and help us come up with ways to support him both in the classroom and at home, and that's a really powerful thing. [00:42:50] Too. Now I'm getting a little choked up, but you know that feeling of, of. Having somebody that you care about, be seen and supported. Um, and for me, that's [00:43:00] a huge amount of gratitude of being, being supported as a parent and knowing that my kid's getting what he needs. [00:43:06] Sarah: Yeah. What a wonderful service that, yeah. [00:43:08] School is offering. [00:43:09] Meg: That's great. Yeah. And it turns out, um, it's occupational therapy. It's sensory, sensory inputs. So I'm like, okay, I guess we'll be doing more army crawls in the morning before you go to school. That's the answer to all of it. [00:43:22] Sarah: Thanks so much for sharing. Thanks for being here, Meg. And uh, yeah, we'll talk again, [00:43:27] Meg: I hope. [00:43:28] All right, talk to you soon, Sarah. Thank you so much. [00:43:32] Sarah: I hope you learned a lot in this episode, specifically how you can use empathy in our seo. I find that so empowering. Please have a look at me's work atLove@firstsearch.com, and check out me SEO starter Kit atLove@firstsearch.com slash. Start also check out Meg's podcast called The Social Slowdown, where I was a recent guest on and we [00:44:00] talked all things humane marketing. [00:44:02] If you are looking for others who think like you, then why not join us in the Humane Marketing Circle? You can find out more at humane.marketing/circle. You find the show notes of this episode@humane.marketing slash 1 63 on this beautiful page. You'll also find a series of free offers, such as my Saturday newsletter, the Humane Business Manifesto, and the free Gentle Confidence mini course, as well as my two books, marketing like we're Human and selling like we're human. [00:44:38] Thank you so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares. For yourself, your clients, and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers. Now go be the change you want to see in the world. Speak soon.

Following a day-long discussion about U.S. interventionism and efforts to resist imperialism at the Latin America and Caribbean Policy Forum, host José Luis Granados Ceja is joined by Nick Estes from The Red Nation, Claudia De La Cruz from The People's Forum, Teri Mattson of the WTF is Going on in Latin America and the Caribbean podcast, Celina della Croce and Hector Figarella from the Anti-Imperialist Action Committee, as well as Venezuelanalysis' Greg Wilpert, to have a rich discussion about the fight to bury the Monroe Doctrine, ending sanctions on Venezuela, and drawing inspiration from the Bolivarian Revolution. This is a repost from our comrades at Venezuela Analysis. Follow them on Twitter (@venanalysis) and subscribe to their podcast.  Support www.patreon.com/redmediapr

Let me tell you about today's guest, Alexander Inchbald. Alexander is on a mission to help 10,000 changemakers to create their Masterpiece and become Rainmakers. He is the founder of the #Masterpiece Movement, a growing community of pioneers, changemakers, misfits and rebels. Together with other likeminded communities they are creating a system that will sustain humankind. Alexander is a global authority on creativity: how we master our mind and body during the act of creation so we create a Masterpiece. He has studied Masters from the worlds of art, science, religion and leadership, explored the cutting edge of psychology, neurology, physiology, epigenetics and metaphysics, and experimenting with creativity, painting in gale force, freezing conditions and blizzards all over the world. The story that has emerged will literally blow your mind. He is a bestselling author a few times over, has worked on all of the United Nation's Sustainable Development Goals and lives with his family above Lake Geneva In today's episode, Alex and I talk about: The story of money, from the industrial revolution until today What this means to us today WooWoo mountain, the feminine vicious cycle and why it prevents us from building business that make money Reclaim the artist as well as the art director How we can change our relationship to money The inner and outer game The role of creativity (and the right brain) in making money Why can can't neglect the left brain And so much more [00:00:00] Sarah: Hello, humane marketers. Welcome back to the Humane Marketing Podcast, the place to be for the generation of marketers that cares. This is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non-pushy. [00:00:23] I'm Sarah z Croce, your hippie turn business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and marketing impact pioneers. Mama Bear of the Humane Marketing Circle. And renegade author of marketing like We're human and selling like we're human. If after listening to the show for a while, you are ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like-minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what. [00:00:52] Works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. If you're picturing your [00:01:00] typical Facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. This is a closed community of like-minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together once per month in a Zoom Circle workshop to hold each other accountable and build their business in a sustainable way. [00:01:16] We share with transparency and vulnerability what works for us and what doesn't work, so that you can figure out what works for you instead of keep throwing spaghetti. On the wall and seeing what sticks. Find out more at humane.marketing/circle, and if you prefer one-on-one support from me. My Humane Business Coaching could be just what you need, whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book. [00:01:47] I'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost 15 years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. If you love this [00:02:00] podcast, wait until I show you my Mama Bear qualities as my one-on-one client can find out more at Humane Marketing slash coaching. [00:02:09] And finally, if you are a Marketing Impact pioneer and would like to bring Humane Marketing to your organization, have a look at my offers and workshops on my website@humane.marketing. [00:02:29] Hello, friends. Today I have another deep and intriguing conversation for you, and it falls under the P of pricing. It's more about money, but money has to do with pricing, right? If you're irregular here, you know that I'm organizing the conversations around the seven Ps of the Humane Marketing Mandala. If this is your first time here and you don't know what I'm talking about, you can download your one page marketing plan with the seven Ps of Humane [00:03:00] marketing@humane.marketing slash one page humane.marketing, not.com humane.marketing. [00:03:09] One page, the number one and the word page. And this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect on these different piece for your business. So it's not a blueprint or a step-by-step or cookie cutter approach. It's, uh, not perspec prescriptive, but it really is, um, helping you to reflect on your seven Ps for humane marketing. [00:03:37] So today I'm speaking to my new friend, Alexander Ald, whom I, I've met in December at a lovely fondue afternoon with nine other beautiful human beings, and we somehow telepathically connected and he gifted me his book Masterpiece, which is truly a masterpiece. [00:04:00] And, uh, that's what we're gonna be talking about today. [00:04:03] And. Obviously, like I said, going to talk about money, pricing, and also this idea of the masculine and the feminine energy, but mainly the masculine because money has to do with masculine energy. Before, I'll tell you a little bit more about Alexander. I'll also invite you in the behind the scenes of my pricing journey with our community. [00:04:28] The Humane Marketing Circle. I started this community in late 2019. It has been kind of going already in a small group before, and for the first year, people could basically join for free as part of, uh, my book launch on Kickstarter, and they were free members for a full. And then obviously, you know what happened in 20 20 20, uh, and then whoever wanted to stay after 2020, [00:05:00] they, uh, paid 20 bucks per month. [00:05:03] Then I increased it to 37, uh, dollars per month and then to 47, and now it's back at 37. You know, economic circumstances and all of that. But meanwhile, more people joined. We added a second monthly call. We moved from, uh, tr a Trello board, which was very simplistic, and it worked for a while for us. But now we're kind of going pro onto a new online platform. [00:05:35] And now we have an engaged online component to the community, and we're hosting that on cajabi, which I kind of joke about. It's, it's very much like us, um, because Cajabi bought this new, um, platform just recently. And so it's a, it. Kind of the little sister of Mighty Networks. It has big dreams, and yet it's [00:06:00] not perfect yet. [00:06:00] And that kind of reminds me of ourselves as a quietly rebellious and, uh, heart-centered changemakers and marketers. You know, uh, we're not perfect. We we're, uh, doing our very best and that's what our online platform is like. And, and so yeah, people are loving it. And in January I hired a community facilitator, uh, Eddie, who's connecting men members amongst each other and really cry, creating this interconnectedness between members, which is so important in a community. [00:06:36] So together we have created something just beautiful and unique and. Totally ready for this new business paradigm that's very Aquarius oriented, you know, power to the people. Um, it's not a top down approach where I'm basically the guru and te teaching you how to do it. No, we're tapping [00:07:00] into our own personal powers and, and sharing what works for us and learning from everybody else what works for them so that we can then figure out, well, I'd like to do this in business and I, you know, this person shared this thing. [00:07:16] I wanna try that. And, and so it's, it is very much in this, uh, Aquarius energy. If, um, if any of you listening are into, um, astrology or kind of follow that even loosely. So yeah, we've really created something very beautiful and unique, I think, uh, together. And now it's time for me to bring in the masculine energy and walk my talk about creating sustainable businesses. [00:07:46] Um, I always share that with my clients and the, the marketing like we're human program. And even in this circle we talk about how just because we come from this place of giving and lots of empathy [00:08:00] and, you know, humane approach to business does not mean that we don't want to have a sustainable business. [00:08:07] We operate from this principle of maximum sustainable generosity, right? And this community has definitely been grown based on that principle, maximum sustainable generosity. And now has come the time where, um, I need to bring in that masculine energy and make it sustainable for me. Uh, beautiful things, good things take time to grow. [00:08:33] And we are at the point now where I feel like. This is just absolutely a gorgeous community. Uh, and now I do need to bring up the price because up till now it wasn't sustainable for me, and that's okay. Again, it takes time and uh, you can't charge the full price from day one. That just makes logical business sense, but now it's time. [00:08:56] So on May 5th, I'll be [00:09:00] introducing a new humane three-tier pricing that is, Conveying all the value you really get in this community and it's sustainable for the host and everyone else's work that needs to be paid fairly. I'm announcing this price increase not to use urgency to get you to sign up, but it wouldn't feel fair that I'm doubling the price overnight without giving you at least a last chance to sign up at the current rate. [00:09:29] You know, it has happened to me where I go to a website and offering, all of a sudden the price is like much higher and I'm like, well, I wish I knew about this. So that's kind of why I'm doing this. Um, now so. Again, um, if you've been playing with the idea of maybe joining us now is a good time, you'll still be kind of considered, I wouldn't say founding members because, um, again, I've been hosting this for over three years, so, [00:10:00] uh, it's not really a founding member rate anymore, but it's just kind of like this, um, you know, maybe a budding rate. [00:10:07] Like we. Add the verge of something that is going to grow. And, and, and if you get in now, uh, well, you get in at that $37 per month rate. The new rates will come into place on May 5th. Have a look@humane.marketing forward slash circle and see if, uh, this is a good fit for you. And we'd love to have you okay with that. [00:10:35] Um, and I hope Alexander is, is proud about me demonstrating my, uh, masculine energy here. So let me tell you a little bit about today's guest, Alexander ald. Um, Alexander is on a mission to help 10,000 change makers to create their masterpiece and become rainmakers. He's the founder of the Masterpiece Movement. [00:10:58] A growing community of [00:11:00] pioneers, changemakers, misfits, and rebels. Together with other like-minded communities, they are creating a system that will sustain human. Alexander is a global authority on creativity, how we master our mind embodied during the act of creation so we can create a masterpiece. He has studied masters from the worlds of art, science, religion, leadership, explored the cutting edge of psychology, neurology, psychology, epigenetics and metaphysics, and experimented with creativity, painting in gale force, freezing conditions and blizzards all over the world. [00:11:41] This story that has emerged will literally blow your mind. Alexander is a bestselling author a few times over and has worked on all of the United Nations, sustain sustainable development goals, and he lives with his family here in Switzerland above Lake Geneva. And [00:12:00] I've had the pleasure to, uh, be over at his house just recently with a beautiful view. [00:12:05] So in our time together, we speak about. The story of money from the Industrial Revolution until today. What this means to us today, uh, I get him to talk about woo woo mountain, the feminine vicious cycle, and why it prevents us from building a business that makes money, reclaim the artist as well as the art director. [00:12:30] How we can change our relationship to money, the inner and the outer game, the role of creativity, the right brain in making money. Why we can't neglect the left brain and so much more. Um, this is a deep conversation. It's a conversation where I use my. Um, left brain and Capricorn being to, um, you know, kind of ground and bring ourselves [00:13:00] back because, uh, Alexander can go really far into these concepts that I have to admit are, uh, sometimes even, uh, a bit far out for me. [00:13:10] So, um, it's a rainy conversation. So if you're ready for that, let's dive in. Hi Alexander. So good to see you speak to you today. [00:13:23] Alexander: Wonderful to be here. Sarah, thank you so much for having [00:13:25] Sarah: me. Yeah. Um, I was on a webinar with you last week. That was amazing. And then of course, uh, as I mentioned in the intro, we, uh, met in person, which is like so rare nowadays, right? [00:13:40] That you get to meet people in person. And we get to meet again actually, uh, tomorrow after this recording. So I'm looking forward to that. But, um, let's share with, uh, my listeners a little bit of the conversations that, uh, partly from your webinar, also from your book, [00:14:00] that you, um, so kindly shared with me and I entitled this, uh, conversation. [00:14:06] Can't remember the exact words, but something about money and masculine energy, because that's what I feel like. You bring to us, right? This kind of dance between the feminine and the masculine and what that has to do with money, uh, how art comes in as well, because you are an artist. So yeah. Let's, let's dive in. [00:14:30] Um, why don't you start with kind of like, um, an excerpt of the story that you sh shared in this webinar. Um, I was on last week, I think it was called, um, it was called The Path of Prosperity, right? That was the title. Yeah. So sh sh Start us out there. [00:14:49] Alexander: Wow. Um, you know, the Pathway of Prosperity is, is a model that emerged, uh, in Switzerland. [00:14:55] Last year I was working with a group of pioneers and one of my business partners, a guy called Peter [00:15:00] kk, and Peter looked at our relationship to money and has looked at it for the last thir 30, 40 years. Um, and he discovered some really, really interesting things when he looked at our relationship to money. [00:15:12] Um, And the modern conception of money was created and designed by some very conscious people 250 years ago, um, around the time of the Industrial Revolution. And the industrial Revolution kind of, um, represents the extreme of the masculine end of the pathway. So there's a feminine end to the pathway, and you'd have to go back 200,000 years really to the dawn of humankind, um, in the Great River Valley in Africa, or at least that's one history you could say. [00:15:43] And that was kind of all feminine energy. So what is feminine energy? Feminine energy is, is, is being in connection. And if you've ever been in a real state of flow, you feel that you're in connection with something, something greater, um, than yourself. And somehow the energy of creativity [00:16:00] flows through you. [00:16:00] So just go to a moment like that. Maybe it was a moment you. Deeply in love with somebody in front of you, or a moment that you, you know, you created a painting and it just hours flew by or, or you finished a report at that moment. Actually the mind isn't really very active. You, you're just kind of in a state of connection or in a state of communion. [00:16:20] And then the opposite end of that is, is the industrial age. Um, and the industrial age. We've gone from kind of being connected to all of it, um, to being a cog in a wheel. Um, and the pathway, we actually talk about the pathway all the way from this to this. But, um, that takes about an hour. So, so I'm not gonna do that in this conversation. [00:16:40] Let, let me start this end. Let's work our way back. So this is the pathway of separation, moving from being connected to, disconnected from being part of all of it, to being a cog, a cove machine. And so if we, if we look at the, the industrial age, what did we say? We said, well, [00:17:00] um, life expectancy was pretty short, kind of, uh, 30 to 50 years, um, in most advanced countries in the world. [00:17:07] Um, and how do we, how do we increase, increase our health? And so some very, very conscious people actually designed a system, a financial system, in order for that to happen. And it included things like interest rates. Um, but the externalities of that, according to Peter's research, are two things. Um, one is extraction of people, extraction of the resource of people. [00:17:30] In other words, led to the idea of the cog in the wheel. And the second is the extraction of raw materials. And those two externalities, at the beginning, they were okay, because if you look at the numbers, the numbers are incredible that life expectancy went up and quality of life went up. E extraordinarily. [00:17:49] Um, and num, those numbers don't lie. It's not like somebody's faked those numbers. I was looking at the work by hands roling the mind gap. You can go, go and see it, mind gapper.org. Um, [00:18:00] incredible. It literally shows how you increase the amount of earning and the life expectancy increases. In other words, there is a direct correlation between those two, right? [00:18:10] And yet that system also divided us. So it was a system of silos. Um, think of the traditional factory and even a factory today it divides things down into silos. And so that was the system two 50 years ago. And there's some organizations that still follow it today, the un not far from where you and I are sitting right now. [00:18:29] You know, it follows a silo-based mentality. Governments, they follow a, a silo-based mentality. Education, you know, in, in class we get taught maths very separate from science, and that's very separate from, you know, art and, and languages. And yet today when we look at the challenges we face there, They're horizontal challenges, not vertical challenges. [00:18:51] Right. And so that, that kind of model started to evolve. Um, and about a hundred years ago, it evolved from the silo based system, uh, which we call the [00:19:00] control system into the, the, the compete system when compete system, not just vertical lines. You add in the horizontal lines. So you see this in big business now, everything divided from, you know, the, the factory line into departments and teams. [00:19:18] Mm-hmm. And you, you kind of had groupings in organizations. And then what we started to see about 20, 30 years ago is, is a kind of emergence, um, of something which can be traced back way before this, but the, the role of the individual in the organization, um, and the philosophy shifted and the philosophy shifted from, from over here in this model, the control and the compete model. [00:19:42] It was all about what was good for the organization, was good for the individual. It's a very paternalistic top down. And this one started to become a little bit more feminine. It said, well, actually what's good for the individual is good for the organization. We started to see that in Silicon Valley. So, you know, the growth of Silicon Valley, um, [00:20:00] w was predicated on the idea of giving people time to do what they were passionate about. [00:20:05] Think, think of Google. They said one day a week, 20% of your time, you can do whatever you're passionate about. And that led to Gmail and Google Maps and Google Calendar, and 50% of the innovation and AdWords, 50% of the innovation from Google came from that 20% time. And yet, what we are getting to see now, 20, 30 years into, you know, the, the massive rise of the internet is the limits of that system. [00:20:33] And, and a new system has been emerging for, uh, 20, 30 years. Um, Behind the scenes. And what we're now seeing is these systems, which are all a variant, a different flavored, you know, vanilla, chocolate, strawberry, let's say. And we're now seeing that actually ice cream isn't the answer. Um, [00:21:00] [00:21:00] Sarah: well I'm gonna interrupt you there then. [00:21:02] So if we continue this ice cream analogy, what is the answer though? Um, and also what does dad have to do with our money story? [00:21:15] Alexander: Yeah, great question. Um, well, I, I'm at risk of course, continuing the analogy and saying, well, we all get fat and get addicted to [00:21:24] Sarah: That's true. And if you, if, if you continue there, it's like, well, money makes you fat. [00:21:30] You know, it's like fat in terms of like too much. [00:21:34] Alexander: Well look exactly, and, and you, you are spot on because. What, what is really happening? Where is the money in the world? Mm-hmm. Well, it's in these three systems. So it's, it's in government bonds, it's in government treasury, it's in big business and it's in Silicon Valley. [00:21:53] And more money has been printed in the last 10 years than has ever been in existence [00:22:00] in the entire history of humankind. And 40% of that wealth, 40% of the world's wealth is owned by 10 men. Um, and I used to be able to get even more of my high horse in this and say 10 white men, but actually there are now two Indian gentlemen who are in the top 10 men. [00:22:19] Um, and despite that, all the other organizations in the top 10 were founded in Silicon Valley. So you've got this, you've got this lake, if you like, of wealth, and it sits. In these three systems, think of a dam, right? And you know, behind the dam you have, you have a lake and it, and it's, and it's actually held here. [00:22:41] Mm-hmm. And it's, it's being hoarded, right? Um, and, and the money is not flowing right. It's not flowing out of the dam. It's, it's jammed behind the dam. And that isn't very natural. Dams are [00:23:00] not natural things. You know, there are no natural dams in nature. There's no hoarding in nature. There's nothing in nature that actually hoards anything. [00:23:07] If you look in, okay, so bears hibernate, squirrels hibernate, but what they do is they store the food that they need to get through the winter. That's not hoarding, right? Storing is, okay, I'm gonna just keep enough that I need with me. Uh, and, and as nomads, we did the same. We, we just carried what we needed at that moment. [00:23:29] If you've ever, ever been backpacking, You know, the first day you go backpack and you're like, oh, damn, I was wondering whether I could swear that, uh, I'll, I've bought in like stuff, I don't need all this stuff. So then you kind of start throwing away stuff, right? And then you, you thin down your rug sucking like, this is what I need, this is all I need. [00:23:51] Sarah: So yeah. You're, you're saying basically the, the money is all held in behind that dam. The question I guess I have is [00:24:00] like, well, what do we, the people, um, what can we do as the people? Um, because you started to talk about this journey, right? And you showed, basically showed us history. So the question is, um, is the, is this history a linear path and things just kept, keep going worse and worse, or? [00:24:27] And I think, uh, I remember from the webinar, of course, it's not a linear path. Uh, it, it it's this shape of, um, the, the the figure eight, um, and the infinity sign. So tell us about the return of Yeah. Uh, you know, how, how it's gonna change, basically. [00:24:48] Alexander: Yeah. Well, it, it looks like it's linear. It, it really does. [00:24:51] It does. It looks like we're heading, heading towards complete collapse. And [00:24:54] Sarah: right now, uh, you know, most people are gonna tell you, well, Alexander, I don't know, [00:25:00] but right now it doesn't look like there's any return. [00:25:03] Alexander: Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't look good. I mean, you know, we are recording this, aren't we? Um, just after, you know, the second, uh, valley Bank has just collapsed, um, we're recording at the same time as, um, UBS is just made an offer to buy credit Suis. [00:25:19] Right. Um, we're recording at a time that. Uh, the Economist is saying that there's a hundred billion dollars in the US banking system missing. Wow. But that's, that's, um, an unwanted gap. And you know, I remember back in 2007, 2008, you know, the beginning of the financial crisis, um, and Lima's Brothers collapsing. [00:25:40] And, and I'm sure you do as well. And it kind of feels like we're, we're at a similar time. And yet I am less concerned about it than ever. And some people, you know, watching like, what you crazy? I'm like, no, actually thi this is, this is absolutely what is being called, uh, forward. [00:26:00] And so there is a world beyond this. [00:26:03] Um, and in fact it's incredibly exciting and amazing world. And everyone says, oh, the system's gonna collapse in Ajara Diamond's book. If you've ever read that about civilization collapse, uh, the whole thing is gonna fall down. Well, maybe, um, The dam actually, there are people standing on both sides of the dam. [00:26:25] So let's take it from the, the global to the specific. Let's take it from, from, you know, what's happening at a societal level and let's, let's focus it on an individual level because this one [00:26:37] Sarah: you are talking about. That's a great idea. Mm-hmm. Because I was just gonna say that cuz it's a bit out there, right? [00:26:43] And it's like, okay, it would be great if we can talk about, well, what does that mean to us? So yeah, take us there. [00:26:50] Alexander: Mm-hmm. So some of us are standing on this side of the dam and we've got big fat ca bank accounts and we're like, I'm scared of spending my [00:27:00] money because the collapse, you know, the collapse is coming. [00:27:04] If I read the, if I read the the papers, watch the news, read the Economist or whoever, the system's about to collapse. So I need to look after my money. In other words. We are hoarding more because we're, we're afraid. And then there are people on the other side of the dam who are, who are kind of looking at the dam going, oh, there's no money coming to me. [00:27:29] And so some of us, you know, some of us are on this side of the dam and we're like, the river's dried up. There's, there's a drought, there's no money flowing to me. Um, how do I, how do I avoid this? Well, maybe I need to climb back up and, and get this side and go back into this world. Maybe I need to go back into the world of business and get a job and just stop trying to create this new system, whatever this new system is. [00:27:58] Um, [00:28:00] and then those of us who are in it are like, am I gonna lose my job? So we've got these kind of two different mentalities going on and it, Peter puts it like this. There are someone, us who are unconsciously. Pushing money away, and some of us who are running after money unconsciously, so let me kind of unbundle that. [00:28:18] Mm-hmm. You can actually see this in your own life. Like either money's flowing, uh, there's money in your bank account or there's not money in your bank, in your bank account. You, you can literally look at it and you could diagnose what's going on by the health of your bank account. Now the secret here is about flow and you mentioned that this is an infinite loop. [00:28:40] The figure of eight turn on its side, it's actually an infinite loop. And the secret is very simple. The dam is actually a belief system held in mind. The dam is actually in our mind and it's an unconscious thing. You're like, no, no, no. It really exists. Like [00:29:00] 40% of the world's wealth help help buy 10 people. [00:29:02] They keep, you can't deny that you know that the money is all in here and it's not here. Well, actually that's not true because there are people over here I know. And we could talk about at length. And they have all the money they need flowing through them and flowing through their bank accounts, and they genuinely are creating a new world. [00:29:21] So what is the difference between those people and, and you and I now, why is the money flowing through their bank accounts and not through all of our bank accounts? And why is the money stuck here? And actually what we find is that most of us have part of ourselves here and part of ourselves here. So in fact, we're doing a little bit of both all the time. [00:29:45] We're, we're kind of hoarding onto the money that does come in, um, because we're afraid of the drought and we're looking at the money saying, when is the money gonna flow to us? And so the, a lot of the work we do is about helping people to break down [00:30:00] this, literally this mental barrier, this mental dam, um, so that the money flows again. [00:30:09] And so that ultimately prosperity flows, um, and the natural design of, of nature is everything in flow. Mm-hmm. It, it's not building downs, it's not building restrictions. [00:30:24] Sarah: Yes. I, I hear you Alexander, but my rational mind is still has a lot of questions because you just went through explaining, you know, the kind of system we are in right now. [00:30:39] Um, and you know that 10 men basically own 40% of the wealth and they are not the ones that I would say represent the feminine energy or even like dual energy. They're the patriarchical, um, kind of not the nicest people on [00:31:00] earth, I would say. And I don't care that they own, uh, that much. So the question is if you're saying, okay, it's just in our mind, well, it's not, it's a reality. [00:31:11] And so the, the thing is, what I want you to, um, talk about is, you know, kind of this concept of owning the masculine energy Yes. As well. And probably more like where we're headed, because clearly right now it's not the case, you know? Yes. Like, we're not at this point yet where we're money flows to everyone. [00:31:37] It's just Yes. You just showed it yourself. So Yes. Take us to, to owning these both energies and, and what, what that could look like. [00:31:47] Alexander: Look, that's such a good question. Um, and brilliantly put, and just to be clear, Um, I'm not saying that that the 10 white men or the eight white men and two Indian [00:32:00] men are in our mind. [00:32:01] I'm saying the dam is in our mind, right? Yes. Right. So the dam is what is in our mind. Mm-hmm. Which is blocking the flow. And you mentioned going into the fem energy. So let's look at it from this perspective. Yeah. Because it's easier to look from down here, looking up at the down. But if we go all the way into the feminine energy over here, we are not separate from the whole. [00:32:29] We are part of mother nature. We are, we are part of it. We are an integral part of it. We're not separate from it. The separation only happens in mind. So the only part of ourselves that can sense the separation is our mind, but our essence, whatever we call it, is not separate from the whole. It's an integral part of the whole. [00:32:52] Right. So if we look at it from this perspective, and then we look at these eight white men and two Indian [00:33:00] gentlemen, and we talk about the, the patriarchy as you just did. And then we, we have all this kind of stuff coming up inside ourselves and we're like, I really don't like those people. That she's the person in that system that you like the least think of that person, that leader, that that individual in that system. [00:33:22] Whether he's an entrepreneur, I'm gonna say he, because undoubtedly it's a man in, in a, in a right. So probably a, uh, a business leader, maybe a politician, but just bring to mind that person. It doesn't have to be, uh, in North America. It could be, it could be somewhere in Europe, it could be, it could be somewhere in Russia. [00:33:43] It could be somewhere in. Um, in the East, right? So just bring to mind that person, and then think of the, the, the thing that you like least about that person. What trait do you like least about that person? And is it, is it, it's, is it corruption? Is it, is it [00:34:00] bullying? Is it misogyny? Is it lying? Is it cheating? [00:34:03] Is it manipulating? Is it bullying? What is, what is it all? What is that trait All above? Yeah. Okay. All of the above. Right? And you can write a long, long list, right? Here's the scary thing. When you look at it from the feminine energy that is part of us. If we are part of the whole, they are also part of the whole, and they are part of us. [00:34:28] And this is a horrible, horrible thing, a horrible realization because mm-hmm. You're suddenly like, oh shit. What? Really? No, no, no, no. Because the mine will then go, no, no, no. That's ridiculous. I've done my work. I've done my own work. I, I, that's, that's how I got here. Don't be so ridiculous. I, I worked at my purpose five years ago, 10 years ago. [00:34:46] I've been doing spiritual development work. I've been doing personal development work. I've been doing all this work for the last 15, 20 years. My whole life has been dedicated to this work. Don't be so ridiculous as part of me stuck over here. Well, if we are on the planet right now, the bad news [00:35:00] is there is, there is an aspect of us that is holding this system in place, that's holding this dam here. [00:35:08] Mm-hmm. This dam in our mind. So what can we do about it? And this is where you're absolutely spot on, that actually we need to re-embrace this masculine energy over here. And, and, you know, Carl Young talked about this idea of the shadow. You know, what's held in the shadow. What's held in the collective consciousness of the planet right now is primarily masculinity. [00:35:35] Cuz this isn't been going on for 250 years. It's been going on for minimum 5,000 years, probably 10,000 years probably. You can trace it all the way back to the moment that, um, well, 5,000 years plus civilization in Suma, where we started to create hierarchies in cigarettes and money and all these things, or 10,000 years. [00:35:54] The moment that we settled down and we said, actually, we can cultivate crops and we can, we can [00:36:00] domestic animals, in other words, with a little bit above nature. Or you could trace it back 40,000 years and say, actually it was the moment that the prefrontal cortex, you know, mutated and gave us consciousness and the moment that the larynx gave us the ability to talk. [00:36:14] So each of these moments are kind of moments of separation along this journey. And now here we are at this, at this moment in history right now, the most amazing moment possibly ever in human history to be alive right now. And, and most of us still have this, they'll have this wall. The wall will dissolve. [00:36:36] It will, it's inevitable for some of us, and those of us who do will just go on this infinite cycle within this life. And for those of us who don't, will go on this cycle, not on this slide. Yeah, [00:36:54] Sarah: I like that. Um, I think, so you, you [00:37:00] kind of talked about the masculine energy and embracing that, um, I think in your book, but also in the webinar. [00:37:07] He also talk about the ego, right? And it's, um, it's part of that, those shadows, um, that, that we need to look at. And in some of the self-help, more self-development, uh, personal development, uh, um, things you hear while you just need to like go of the ego and you know, that's how you're coming to this feminine energy. [00:37:32] You instead say, well, don't let go of it. Uh, look at it and embrace it and, and, and, and yeah, commune with it in a way, right? And I think that's exactly what's happening now as well. Um, in, in on the bigger, um, scheme is all of that ego stuff is coming up and. And we're, yeah, we're having to look at it as a [00:38:00] society and, you know, the big, um, kind of, um, people that we talked about with all the wealth. [00:38:06] Well, that's really coming up for them, uh, specifically right now. And, and so what you're saying is not completely let go of it, but take I guess the good things from the ego with you so that you can then apply those. Let, let's kind of bring it to a business owner level because li my listeners are, are entrepreneurs, right? [00:38:30] And I do feel like a lot of, uh, you know, I'm talking to heart-centered entrepreneurs, so already that kind of says, well, there are a lot in the feminine energy, uh, which is great, right? Which is exactly what we need, uh, more of, so we're on this pathway back to the feminine energy. And what you are saying, and I'm saying it as well in different words because I talk about the doing and the being, um, the yin and the [00:39:00] yang, right? [00:39:00] We need both energies to be an entrepreneur and to, you know, stay ground and, and, and claim our worth. And, and, and yeah, do sell Right to sell. We need, uh, some of that, um, masculine energy as well. So yeah, tell us a bit more about the ego and, and what, what good parts are in the ego, right. That we can bring back to, to business. [00:39:26] Oh, [00:39:26] Alexander: beautiful. Great question. Um, well let, let's, let's take this model actually, and, and flip it up, right? So this, this figure of a, and let's flip it this way and, ok. So now [00:39:37] Sarah: let's, now standing straight, [00:39:38] Alexander: it's now standing straight, right? Yeah. And the base is the feminine and, and the, the top is, is the masculine. [00:39:45] Mm-hmm. And now let's imagine that's a tree. Right? Mm-hmm. And this is your tree and your, your business. Mm-hmm. And what you wanna do is you want to attract more trees into your forest, more trees into your community is [00:40:00] right. And the bigger, the bigger your forest grows, the more sustainable it becomes. So trees that grow in forest live far longer than trees that, um, that are isolated on their own, on hilltops. [00:40:13] So let's, let's assume that what you're trying to do is, is build a forest. A sustainable forest doesn't have to be the biggest forest in the world, but it's a sustainable forest. It's a heart-centered forest center. At the heart of this forest is the mother tree, your tree. Now if you think about that forest, and let's say, you know, it's, it's currently a cops or maybe it's a wood, but actually the potential is to grow to a forest. [00:40:36] Or maybe you are just starting out and you've literally just sewed the seed and it's, it's a seedling or a sapling. But you know, you know the potential of it is not just to grow into a tree. It's actually to grow into a forest. And of course what you go is do is you go through growing pain. So let's see if yours are sapling, you may be blown away, away, you know, around by the wind. [00:40:57] And what we often focus on is we try [00:41:00] and, you know, we try and grow the tree, right? You imagine this like you're a little seedling and you're, you're like, grow faster and you're like, let, you're trying to pull this more, more [00:41:08] Sarah: clients, more, [00:41:09] Alexander: yeah. More clients. More, more, more, more grow this way. Mm-hmm. And, and of course that doesn't work. [00:41:13] You'll literally just pull the seedling outta the ground or you'll pull the sapling outta the ground. Mm-hmm. So what stops you from doing this is, is the roots. And in fact, the height of the tree is dependent on the depth of the roots. Right? And don't worry, I'm gonna get to, to this thing about the ego, right? [00:41:28] Um, so let's assume that the roots is the feminine, the roots is in, is in connection with all of it. What, what we call the purpose. And that the, the tree is your mission. This is what you're growing towards and you want all the other trees to grow towards this, towards this mission. And that creates a microclimate underneath which sustains life because it's not too hot, it's not too cold. [00:41:52] It helps the, um, the, to conserve the water that all the trees need, the nutrients that all the trees need, the minerals [00:42:00] that all the trees need. And then they share this underneath. So the height of the tree is dependent on the depths of the roots. The sustainability of the forest is dependent on the consistency of the canopy, but what stops the roots from growing deeper are rocks. [00:42:18] Now, most people would tell you to remove rocks. When you see a block, you remove the block. When you see the dam, you take the dam out. [00:42:29] But what if the rocks had helped you to get here? See, if you were to remove all the rocks under a forest, the trees would become unstable. Mm-hmm. And then they'd fall over. But actually if, if the roots wrap around the rocks, then the tree becomes more stable. Yeah. And the whole forest becomes more stable. [00:42:53] Sarah: It reminds me of what we just said before, recording, no pain, no gain. Right? The rocks are the pain [00:43:00] here. The rocks are the dark nights of the soul. Um, so [00:43:04] Alexander: yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. And in our research we've identified all different types of, of pain. Pain around money, which we've just been talking about. We're either mentally hoarding it or we are mentally, um, you know, we're in a scarcity mindset. [00:43:23] Um, so we're pushing it away mentally or we're running after it power, relationship to power. So either we're standing at the top of the dam or we're standing at the bottom of the dam. And in order for somebody to be standing at the top, there has to be somebody standing at the door. In other words, in order for you to have, um, power over somebody, somebody unconsciously has to accept to have power over them. [00:43:46] Right. Oras, my partner, Jean Plip, puts it, um, obedience is the key to power. Mm-hmm. The third rock that we look at is, is love, because most of us were brought up in a world of fairy tales, Grims fairy [00:44:00] tales where, you know, the, the, the prince and the princess lived happily ever after. Uh, which implies that you are happy every after when you find your soulmate. [00:44:09] And so we've reinterpreted that, that modern myth is you can only be happy when you find your soulmate, which implies that love is outside of you. And of course, those of us who've done personal development work and a lot of it know that actually it's inside of us. And yet there's so remnants of that old model because it's so deeply embedded in society. [00:44:29] Mm-hmm. And then the fourth area is time. Um, that we, we constantly perceive we are running out of time and we've got to do things by this time. Um, and so these are, these are the four rocks or we procrastinate and these are the four rocks that we find underground. And what we've explored and examined is how you can embrace these different rocks. [00:44:56] Because in them is first of all the secret of how you [00:45:00] got here. Your tree grew, you grew cause the rock was there. And if you really embrace it consciously, and this is the difference, most of us are, uh, kind of embracing or resisting it unconsciously. And because we're embracing it unconsciously, we're not really embracing it. [00:45:21] We're pushing away from it. So if you take a, you know, you mentioned being very practical in business, let's say. Um, we are unconsciously pushing money, right? Let's come back to money. We are running a program around money. So we think money is bad, or money is our security, or money is our freedom. Um, and that, uh, in Carl's words is a projection. [00:45:51] So we're not seeing money as money. We're seeing money as a vehicle to something freedom or [00:46:00] away from something corruption. And when we actually embrace the freedom with or without money, we actually become truly free. Mm-hmm. [00:46:14] Sarah: But we can't, I think, I think in the book, yeah. Go on. Sorry. Yeah. I think in the book you mentioned surrender. [00:46:21] Right? And that I think is a big piece of that journey is to, you know, just surrender to. The rocks. And, and does that mean surrender to the ego as well? Because we started this track with the ego. So does that mean surrender to your ego, uh, as well? [00:46:43] Alexander: Yeah, great question. Um, I would say more surrender to the feminine. [00:46:48] Hmm. But in the surrender, what most of us forget is that the feminine to take the sea behind me. Right. [00:47:00] Um, but the canvas here, so this is a painting, it's a painting of, of, uh, M Blanc, um, painted a few years ago in black. And, um, it was pretty windy up there. Like it's what, 3000 meters? So 9,000 feet. Um, and it's pretty windy. [00:47:18] And you know, when the canvas is moving, it's very difficult for the feminine to feel like, uh, She can come out and play. So the feminine creates, mother nature creates, um, the divine. You know, a birth is normally through the feminine form, like, you know, new, new life comes onto the planet through the feminine form. [00:47:39] And so the, the, when the canvas is held, the feminine can come out to play. So the masculine is, is the easel and it's holding. And normally I tie with string from the corner so that the, the canvas is completely held. And if the canvas is held, then the feminine has the confidence to come out to play [00:48:00] so that the, the, the feminine aspect of this needs the masculine at a certain level of awareness, right? [00:48:09] It needs to be held in that way. And that's where most of us are right now. And most of us have, have observed masters and we're like, you know, look, look at Nelson Mandela or, or Mother Teresa, and we observe no ego, you know, look at, look at Eckhart. No ego. we're like, there's no ego there. Ego's gone. So we look at it and we go, oh, I know what I need to do. [00:48:33] I need to get rid of the ego. I need to get rid of the rocks. Right? But actually, that's like trying to climb a ladder by removing the runts. Mm-hmm. So if when you get to the top of the ladder, you don't need the ladder, but in order to get to the top of ladder, you needed the rungs in the ladder. So most of us look at that state and we think, well, what I need to do is I need to remove the ego in order to reach the top [00:49:00] of my mountain. [00:49:01] Actually, it's the inverse. The rungs of the ladder are embracing every aspect of ego and finding the gold in the rock, cuz there's gold in each of these rocks. And when you realize there's a benefit in, I dunno, security. And you find the conscious benefit in that, the gold dust in that you climb up a run and then you keep doing this. [00:49:27] It's, it's a, it's a very long ladder, by the way, really, really long ladder, you know? And like you, you can go on and on and on and on and on. Like, it's, it, it feels like it's infinite, right? Um, but at a certain point, you, you reach the top of the mountain, you're like, oh my God, I'm here. Then you don't need the ladder, but you do need the ladder to help other people get to the top of the mountain. [00:49:52] So this is when you build ladders for other people, right? [00:49:55] Sarah: So once you build your ladder, you can then help other people. Yeah. Yeah. [00:50:00] I, I see how you, yeah. How you tie in the, the rocks and the ego and that. The point is not to let go of the ego, but to embrace it. Because we need both of these energies, right? [00:50:15] Yes. Um, Maybe just to kind of bring it down again to the level of, uh, the individual, the entrepreneur. Um, what I see a lot in, um, uh, the entrepreneurs that I work with is that, um, and, and I think in your book, you call it the woowoo Mountain, right? And I have my WOOWOO prompts in, in, in the marketing, like we're human book. [00:50:39] So I think it's very much needed today that we can go into the woo and that we can, you know, embrace our feminine energy. But you and I both make the point also to say yes. And you do also need, uh, the masculine energy, um, to [00:51:00] build a business. There's just certain things, even in marketing, you know, you need to look at your numbers, like all of these kind of left brain things, those are the masculine energy, and we need those for building businesses, and we need those even for, um, Yeah. [00:51:17] It, it's a structure, like you said, the easel is the structure. It's kind of like, um, we need both. We need the roots, which you said was the feminine, and then we need some kind of system or, or structure. Um, I love that. Yeah. Thanks so much for, for taking on us on that journey. What I'm curious, uh, kind of to wrap up, what I'm curious, um, about is, is, is this return and. [00:51:45] You know, we, we kind of briefly touched upon it, the, the communion. Um, what you, um, mentioned also is the, you know, the, these different, um, business models. So we started with, uh, [00:52:00] industrial Revolution. Now we're kind of still in the big corporate systems. So where is this going? Uh, what do you see, uh, as a new paradigm in terms of business and, um, yeah, humans. [00:52:16] How, how are we [00:52:17] Alexander: evolving? Yeah, so the, the, the big leap beyond the dam, um, if we, if we kind of put the tree back and actually the other way around and, um, we have the infinite loop, then the big leap beyond, um, the, the dam is, is a leap into what is variously known as as a teal organization. Um, it's a kind of decentralized organization. [00:52:40] But most people have misunderstood the decentralized organization. Um, and they think we, we go into co creativity and we immediately jump to communion. There is a step in between, there's a rung in the ladder in between this current system, Silicon Valley system, which is still extracting wealth, um, and this new emergence [00:53:00] system before you get to communion. [00:53:02] So the future is communion, and that's one end of the cycle. And then there's the other. And really what you're looking for is a constant flow between them. So in order for that constant quote to happen, you'd have to reclaim these positives, as you said over here. So what's the positive of the control system? [00:53:18] Discipline structure. What's the, the positive of the, of the second system? Focus, like steely, focus on, on whatever you call that thing is your mission or the uniqueness. Your promise was the third thing. The third thing is about shifting our mindset. It's about unlocking our mindset and moving towards a mindset where things can grow. [00:53:39] But the real leap is here. This is the leap. This is the leap that's emergent. And it's, it's like it builds on all of these. We think it's linear, but actually it's like the Russian dolls. So this is an outer Russian doll, and then there's another Russian doll here. And this one, to get to this one, you have to accept all of these [00:54:00] phases. [00:54:01] And what that means is that it's not co-creation, that's delusional. Wbu Mountain stuff. That it occurs because somebody is holding the space. What my, my partner Peter calls the source, there's an easel there holding the canvas for everyone else. And so there's, there's this famous book by, uh, Fred Lulu. [00:54:22] Fred Lulu, um, called Reinventing Organization, which kicked up a whole creativity, co creativity movement, and became a cult classic in 2015. And when Peter interviewed Fred, cause he knows him very well, he said, Fred, you only interviewed sources, didn't you? And Fred's like, yes. In other words, he was observing the canvas, but not realizing the role that the sources, the people, the founders of the business were playing as the easel. [00:54:52] What does that mean? It means. The holding at this level without the, the, the masculine, strong [00:55:00] masculine energy nigro is, is a mapp like this with bubbles inside, without the arms holding the space. Without that discipline, without that focus, without that structure, the whole thing falls into a mess. And I, I launched a company, um, based on the idea of co-creation. [00:55:18] I was the source of it. I had some incredible partners, really, really impressive people. And it collapsed. We never made any money. There was never any flow in it. So in order to create this system, we have to embrace the shadow of the masculine and the shadow of the masculine is encompassed in the, in the worst of the people who we see running this system. [00:55:44] And so I am incredibly optimistic, but it's not even optimism. I know, I know that, um, some of us are already doing this. And I see what's been created and it is phenomenal. [00:56:00] Phenomenal what has been created. I mean, I was speaking with my friend Heath yesterday, what Heath is up to, unbelievable. I mean, I can't give any details out at the moment, but you can feel the energy of what he is doing. [00:56:14] I'll give you one example. So Carrie is 25 years in the un, has created a parallel organization to the UN called United Cities in Google it. She's now the source of a 13 billion fund to realize the SDGs, uh, the sustainable development goals. Her mission is 10,000 cities. By the end of decade, she will do it. [00:56:34] I know she will. She's operating from that level of awareness. That's just one example. But there are, let's [00:56:42] Sarah: go back to the, let's go back to the, uh, individuals, um, you know, the entrepreneurs who are listening, cuz that's kind of like a high level example. Um, because I, I do have to say, I'm like, well, here I am always talking about co-creation and collaboration, and you [00:57:00] just come in and say, well, that's not working. [00:57:02] So what's the alternative then? Because if the ultimate goal is communion, then what's the alternative? If not collaboration? [00:57:13] Alexander: So collaboration is key, but the key to get to the communion is to appreciate that each of us have a role in that collaboration and each of us are tapping in as a source into something greater, whatever we call that. [00:57:35] So the collaboration happens because each of us take a marriage. In a marriage, you have two people, and we talk about us as, as a, as a something, but actually each of us are independent, um, beings. And we, we used to say in the old system, we used to say, well, when you find your perfect partner, [00:58:00] you create perfect harmony, the beast with two bags. [00:58:03] But actually we know that doesn't work because when the person is not there, they miss the other person. Actually, what we're talking about here, true collaboration is this, both individuals become whole, complete and whole. And the dance between those individuals is to help each other become whole. And then what you get, of course, is an infinite loop and freedom in between. [00:58:25] Mm-hmm. And this is what true collaboration is. So each person sourcing what they're there to source and being really, really clear that one is playing the role of the easel. And holding the space, and the other is doing the creation in there. So it's a nuance of collaboration. It's not saying forget co-creation, forget collaboration. [00:58:47] It's a nuance to it that integrates the masculine world over here into the emergent world, because again, it's the matri dog. You don't embrace this world. [00:59:00] This world falls apart and it never actually grains the traction that it needs. So that's the distinction. So is it happening? Yes. What, what does practically that mean for an individual operating from this space? [00:59:14] It means practically actually looking back into the world that you might be in resistance to, and you might have rejected, and not throwing the baby out with the bathwater and seeing the gold dust in that. Um, and then accepting that gold dust, embracing that gold dust, reclaiming the strong summary, you know, that the masculine energy in you, in order to do that holding, knowing that beyond that is communion. [00:59:41] But you can't miss that rung on the ladder. You miss that rung on the ladder. You don't get to the top of the mountain, the whole thing falls apart, the tree falls over. Yeah. [00:59:50] Sarah: I, yeah, totally. I, I, I see you, you, you talk so beautifully and I just, I, it feels sometimes I'm kind of like the translator who [01:00:00] brings it down to the level of the, of, um, you know, kind of the ground 11. [01:00:05] I'm a Capricorn. Uh, and so I'm like, okay, you know, very, there's my daughter straightforward. And, and so in a way I can also make a parallel to my own journey. And, and I know you shared it in your book. Um, About your journey to the Woohoo mountain, right. And the artist and, and all of that. And then from there, coming back to the, yeah. [01:00:29] To the, the yang energy and, and, and I'm a Capricorn and a cancer rising. So I really have these both things. You know, the very, I call myself the mama bear of the, of the Humane Marketing circle. So I have this cancer energy, uh, that is very feminine, very woowoo, right? But. At the core, I'm at Capricorn, I'm very down to earth and structured and, and so it's almost like I wanted to get rid of those things and rid of the mind, and I'm like, no, no, no, I [01:01:00] have to, I don't be, you know, very meditative and in this state of Woo all the time. [01:01:05] Um, and yeah, it didn't work. Like, I'm like, no, this, you know, I need both. And that's what we're constantly talking about as well. And in humane marketing, you, you need both the doing and the being. So it's, uh, yeah, beautifully, beautifully said. You have, you have definitely a way with words and, and, and making this, uh, parallels that. [01:01:26] Yeah. It's just, it's such a journey, right? It's the journey of transformation basically, is what you're, you're talking about. And, and it's a journey of the money journey. But then of course, m you know, everything kind of goes back to money. And, and it's our journey as, as humans and as entrepreneurs. [01:01:48] Alexander: Yeah. [01:01:48] Yeah. It's exactly that. It's, it's those two being and doing. Right. And, um, the doing comes from a [01:02:00] state of being, right? [01:02:02] Sarah: Yeah. Which, which I know you, and that's why we need to start with the being. Right. We do [01:02:07] Alexander: need to start with the being. We do need to unlock this because we've been in a state of doing the way too long for too long. [01:02:13] Yeah. When we jump into the being, and it was, it was Einstein who said, let's call this the intuition, this the intellect. He said, um, you know, the, the intellect is a faithful servant, and the intuition is a sacred gift. And if we can understand that it's the gift that uses the intellect, that uses the mind, it's like a tool in the toolbox. [01:02:42] Mm-hmm. And when it uses it, Actually, you can create whatever you want, but most of the time it is the minds trying to suppress and forget this sacred gift. Yeah. And that really is the, the infinite journey [01:03:00] is realizing the gift, using the tool in order to create, and th this, this, this journey. It's, it's the journey of creation. [01:03:15] Yeah. It's the journey of humankind. It's, it's any painting, any masterpiece. That's the journey. Mm-hmm. [01:03:21] Sarah: Yeah. Thanks so much for being here and taking on us on this journey. Uh, Alexander, really appreciate it. Please do share where people, I think you run these webinars, uh, on a regular basis. So I think the best, uh, idea is probably for people to actually, uh, attend this webinar so they, they can see you in action and do share about that and the book and your website [01:03:48] Alexander: and all of that. [01:03:50] Yeah, sure. Well, um, we will be running another, uh, webinar on the 20th of April Arthur Prosperity, while we [01:04:00] begin into this little bit more detail. I dunno whether this episode comes up before then or not, but if it does, then great. Sign up and join us. Uh, you can also, uh, find my book, a free chapter of my book on, on my website, uh, Alex Alexander hable.com. [01:04:15] Um, and then, um, Yeah, there are, there, you know, we're just about to launch a community which you can join. Um, and then we'll have regular, uh, conversations on a monthly basis. And then we run a series of, of retreats, the Masterpiece retreats, which are online and offline, uh, which is up to Japan to, to run a retreat in Kyoto, which I'm pretty excited about. [01:04:38] We're doing first Men's retreat in May, um, in Morocco, which again, I'm really excited about. We'll be going up to see Kari, who I mentioned, um, earlier in, in Norway. Um, and then we'll be running something in Switzerland in October. Um, and then we do online retreats as well, um, called Masterpiece Tribes, and we're on the 11th Tribe, um, 12th Tribe [01:05:00] will be in June. [01:05:00] So lots of, lots of amazing things happening. Um, and if any of that speaks to you, then, um, you know, come along, get, get some of the free information. The, the, the, there are lots of videos on the site as well, and you can get lost in the videos and learn as much as you need to. Um, yeah. Thank you for having [01:05:19] Sarah: me. [01:05:19] Yeah, wonderful. Thanks so much for being here. I always have one last question and that is what are you grateful for today or this week? You. Thank you. I'm grateful for you too. Thank you. Thanks for creating masterpieces. [01:05:38] Alexander: Likewise. Thank you for creating your masterpiece. That's what I'm grateful for. Thank Youe marketing. [01:05:50] Sarah: I hope you enjoyed this conversation, a bit of a different approach to, uh, money and pricing, but ever so important. [01:06:00] In order to find out more about Alexander and his work, please go to alexander dash inch ball.com. Uh, the community can be found@themasterpiece.community, and Alexander also has a podcast called Insights From the at and uh, that is also on his website, alexander inal.com. [01:06:25] As I said in our conversation, I really enjoyed Alexander's. Called the Masterpiece, and you'll find out also on his website or on Amazon directly. Finally, if you're looking for others who think like you, who are deep thinkers as we demonstrated in this conversation, then why not join us in the Humane Marketing Circle? [01:06:47] You can find out more at Humane. Dot marketing slash circle. You'll find the show notes of this episode with all the links we mentioned here at Humane [01:07:00] Marketing slash H 16 two. Uh, this beautiful page also contains, uh, links to my free offers, such as my Saturday newsletter, the Humane Business Manifesto, and the free gentle Confidence mini course, as well as my two books, marketing like we're Human and Selling like we're human. [01:07:23] Uh, just a reminder also that marketing like We're human is now also available in audio format on Audible or anywhere else where you get your audiobooks. Thanks so much for listening and being part of a generation of marketers who cares for yourself, your clients, and the planet. We are change makers before we are marketers, so go be the change you want to see in the world. [01:07:49] Speak soon.[01:08:00]