Podcasts about mormon

MRM's Bill McKeever and Bradley Campbell discuss some of the changes in missionary personnel made by church leaders in preparation for the 2027 Salt Lake Temple open house.

Week 6 - Moses 7: "Mountains moving, rivers turning, Lions roaring and protecting the people of God, Lands coming up out of the sea. These are not blessings reserved only for Enoch."

Today we explore the world of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. From the formation of the Book of Mormon to its unique relationship with traditional Christianity and the celestial vision of the Three Kingdoms of Glory, we trace the core of this modern faith. Welcome to Religion Camp!

In the final segment, the Ericksons tackle the practical side of raising kids in polygamy. They discuss whether they expect their kids to be polygamists, the role of their ministry, and the lingering trauma that keeps many fundamentalist groups secretive. Sign up for this secret episode at https://gospeltangents.com/newsletter https://youtu.be/R_q-a_a79Ik Don’t miss our other conversations on Mormon fundamentalism: https://gospeltangents.com/denominations/fundamentalim/ 00:00 – Raising Kids in Polygamy: Charlotte and Melissa explain that they do not force polygamy on their children. Their goal is to raise sons who are such good husbands that “more than one woman would want to be with them,” but the choice is ultimately theirs. 04:00 – Heaven on Earth: Joshua rejects the idea that a miserable marriage now will magically become a happy polygamous one in heaven. He emphasizes that the “same sociality” exists there as here, so marriages must be happy now. 08:00 – Keeping the Faith: The parents focus on instilling a love for biblical feasts and God rather than loyalty to a specific group. They hope their children avoid atheism and maintain a connection to their Israelite heritage. 12:00 – Mormon Legacy Ministries Logistics: Joshua details his role as a bishop for the ministry. They hold services on Saturdays and Thursdays via Zoom to accommodate people transitioning out of other groups. 18:00 – A Bishop Without a Church: Joshua explains that he handles temporal needs (tithes/offerings) but does not perform ordinances or interviews for the ministry, acting more as a referral service for those seeking baptism or marriage. 22:00 – Generational Trauma: Charlotte addresses why many fundamentalists remain secretive and insular. She highlights the history of government prosecution and the fear of having children taken away, noting that until 2020, polygamy was a felony in Utah.  

Kody and Janelle reminisce about their toxic beginning with Meri, Christine and David bloviate about how bad polygamy is, Meri calls out Janelle for being a homewrecker and Robyn is so uncomfortable she looks constipated. How many more One-on-One's must we suffer through?! Love the girls? Get more of their cringey, awesome content at Patreon.com/realitytvcringe!Follow us on IG https://instagram.com/realitytvcringeSubscribe to see our raccoon faces on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_2CgqXLWjIEKV9PCtH3Kjw?sub_confirmation=1Leave a message for us on SpeakPipe: https://speakpipe.com/realitytvcringeSupport the pod by leaving a 5-star review on your favorite podcast platform! Thank you so much.

Send Us an Email to Chat!Oh boy, is it that time of year again, time for David's Birthday Torture? It sure is, this year we are celebrating his birth with 1992's Mormon produced The ButterCream Gang! Wow this is one for the books! Plus David vs. PayPal. Gary joining the cast of Scream 8. Carlene and Kat dealing with her love of this movie. You got the right one baby… Uh huh Uh huh!Follow us on Instagram:@Gaspatchojones@Homewreckingwhore@The_Miseducation_of_DandG_Pod@QualityHoegramming@MullhollanddazeSupport the show

Welcome back to our Joseph Smith Podcast series with historian Dr. John Turner!This is Episode 29, where we dive into Chapter 24, titled “Upper Rooms,” from John Turner's new book Joseph Smith: The Rise and Fall of an American Prophet.In this episode, we focus on Nauvoo in 1842 –a pivotal year when Freemasonry, the Relief Society, secrecy, and the earliest forms of the Nauvoo Endowment ceremony all intersect.The central question we wrestle with is this: To what extent did Freemasonry shape Joseph Smith's use of secrecy –and was it intended to protect his authority and reputation?We explore the anti-Masonic climate of early America and the murder of William Morgan, why the Book of Mormon was once read as an “anti-Masonic Bible,” Joseph Smith's embrace of Freemasonry, the founding of the Nauvoo Masonic Lodge, Parallels between Masonic rituals and the original Nauvoo Endowment, the secret oaths, handshakes, signs, tokens, and penalties, and Joseph Smith's evolving theology around power and exaltation.This conversation is historically grounded, candid, and essential for anyone trying to understand how Mormon temple theology developed –and why it still matters today!Show NotesYouTubeMormon Stories Thanks Our Generous Donors!Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today:One-time or recurring donation through DonorboxSupport us on PatreonPayPalVenmoOur Platforms:YouTubePatreonSpotifyApple PodcastsContact us:MormonStories@gmail.comPO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117Social Media:Insta: @mormstoriesTikTok: @mormonstoriespodcastJoin the Discord

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In Covenant Power, teacher Sharla Goettl uses captivating storytelling to bring key endowment principles to life, presented in the imagined voices of the scriptural figures who taught each principle best, such as Peter, Eve, Nephi, & Mormon. Through these stories, you’ll gain an understanding of how the endowment prepares us to receive Christ's covenant power. They also highlight connections between the scriptures and the endowment. God designed temple covenants to enable lasting success, calm deep fears, and build steady confidence. This book teaches how each covenant you make helps you to connect with Christ's power: – Law of Obedience: The action of seeing Christ's power – Law of Sacrifice: Embrace the process to gain Christ's power – Law of the Gospel: Learn how to retain Christ's power – Law of Chastity: Discover the key to increase in Christ's power – Law of Consecration: An opportunity to share Christ's power Be inspired by the endowment through this unique reading experience—one that will testify of Christ's firm foundation built upon covenant guarantees. Whether you are preparing for the endowment or eager to learn more, Covenant Power will empower your love and knowledge of the temple. Covenant Power Amazon Purchase ovenant Power Cedar Fort Purchase Spiritual Resilience The post Covenant Power: Transform Fear into Faith through the Power of Jesus Christ appeared first on The Cultural Hall Podcast.

MRM's Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson interview Rob Bowman on some new articles published on the IRR website, including this on contradictions on the Book of Mormon. Check out the website at irr.org.

Rick Bennett asks the hard questions about gender and race within independent fundamentalism. Do women bless the sick? The Erickson family—Joshua, Melissa, and Charlotte—discuss the reality of “patriarchal” polygamy, refuting the stereotype of oppressed, silent wives. Melissa Erickson opens up about her personal experience performing healing blessings by the laying on of hands. The group also tackles the controversial topic of Black priesthood holders in fundamentalism, their support for the inclusive “Missouri Temple” group, and Melissa's unique scriptural interpretation of the “One Man” rule in D&C 132. https://youtu.be/xfeTRIw8iw0 Don’t miss our other conversations on Mormon fundamentalism: https://gospeltangents.com/denominations/fundamentalim/ Here are 5 engaging titles and detailed show notes for Episode 1125, based on the provided transcript. • Debunking the “Silent Wife” Stereotype Melissa and Charlotte push back against the idea that plural wives are “brainwashed, stupid, or oppressed.” Instead, they describe their marriage as a single “unit” that shifts and adapts. For example, when Melissa is in midwifery training or Joshua is editing scriptures, the other spouses pick up the slack. They emphasize that plural marriage should be cooperative, not competitive. • Women Bless the Sick Rick asks if women can perform ordinances if the husband is incapacitated. Melissa reveals that she has blessed the sick by the laying on of hands, noting there is historical precedent for it. She distinguishes this from the sacrament; she views healing as an emergency act of faith, whereas the sacrament is administrative and can wait for a priesthood holder. Interestingly, they would be more comfortable receiving the sacrament from a married woman than a 12-year-old deacon. • Race and the Priesthood The Ericksons discuss their openness to Black polygamists, a stance that separates them from many other fundamentalist groups. They praise the independent temple in Missouri for allowing mixed-race individuals to enter, even though other groups claim this “desecrates” the temple. Joshua argues that while he believes priesthood is for Israelites, anyone can become an Israelite. • Racism: Thoughts vs. Actions The group discusses the nature of sin and racism. Melissa argues that how you act matters more than what you feel or think. She shares a story from a mainstream LDS ward where members gossiped about a South American sister making tamales with lard, using it as an example of cultural offense that bordered on racism. She concludes that “gossip is less kosher” than lard. • Reinterpreting the “One Man” Rule (D&C 132) Melissa provides a unique exegesis of D&C 132:7, which states the keys are conferred on “never but one on the earth at a time.” She interprets this not as a dictatorship where only one man holds authority, but as a procedural instruction that ordination happens one person at a time—similar to how Jacob blessed his sons individually rather than as a group. ——————————————————————————– 00:00 – The “Patriarchal” Stereotype Rick asks if the man does all the talking while women sit quietly. Melissa explains how their family operates as a fluid “unit” rather than a hierarchy. 04:00 – Co-Parenting and the “Cookie System” The benefits of three parents: the children can seek out the parent whose personality matches their current need, though they also try to game the system to get extra treats. 07:30 – Women Healing the Sick Melissa confirms she has administered to the sick by the laying on of hands. A discussion ensues on the difference between emergency blessings (faith) and the sacrament (authority). 12:00 – Centennial Park's Yearly Sacrament Rick shares a story about the Centennial Park group instituting a yearly public sacrament meeting specifically for women who do not have a priesthood holder in their home. 16:00 – Black Polygamists & The Missouri Temple The Ericksons affirm they would welcome Black polygamists. They discuss the controversy surrounding the independent temple in Missouri allowing Black people to participate. 21:00 – The Tamale Incident: Acting Above Your Instincts A discussion on whether feeling racist is a sin. Melissa argues that maturity is treating neighbors with love regardless of internal biases, sharing a story about a ward dispute over tamales. 31:00 – The “One Man” Myth in D&C 132 Melissa reads the famous “one man” scripture and reinterprets it as a description of individual ordination (like Patriarchal blessings) rather than exclusive authority.

Welcome back to Monthly Mormon Monday not on a Monday haha! Banned Book of Mormon Stories???What does an old comic do to threaten the LDS Mormon church?Why is it so Occulted?We delve into this and so much more as we discuss some truths laid forth by a true believing Mormon that wrote them...So really what is this secret? Come join us to find out! Thanks as always to Paranoid American for the chat see his links below

The story of how early Mormon leaders allegedly believed six-foot-tall Quakers were living on the moon is stranger, funnier, and more complicated than the memes suggest — and it involves a newspaper hoax, bat-men, a German professor who saw cities on the lunar surface, and a game of telephone spanning four decades.CHAPTERS & TIME STAMPS (All Times Approximate)…00:00:00.000 = Six Foot Quakers On The Moon (Prologue)00:01:56.930 = Show Open00:03:12.528 = The Urologist Who Saw Cities On The Moon (Part One)00:19:34.761 = Fire Beavers and Bat-Men (Part Two)00:44:52.116 = The Telephone Game Spanning Four Decades (Part Three)01:01:35.145 = Write It Down, Man Will Never Reach Space (Part Four)01:12:49.342 = Show Close*** = Begins immediately after inserted ad breakPRINT VERSION to READ or SHARE (Includes Sources): Full article and sources for this episode: https://weirddarkness.com/quakers-on-the-moon/Previous Weird Darkness episode about the Moon Hoax: https://weirddarkness.com/1835-moon-hoax/Previous Weird Darkness episode about Stanley Kubrick faking the moon landing:https://weirddarkness.com/stanleykubrick/William Herschel's paper, “On the Nature and Construction of the Sun and Fixed Stars”: https://www.jstor.org/stable/106944=====(Over time links may become invalid, disappear, or have different content. I always make sure to give authors credit for the material I use whenever possible. If I somehow overlooked doing so for a story, or if a credit is incorrect, please let me know and I will rectify it in these show notes immediately. Some links included above may benefit me financially through qualifying purchases.)= = = = ="I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness." — John 12:46= = = = =WeirdDarkness® is a registered trademark. Copyright ©2026, Weird Darkness.=====Originally aired: January 28, 2026EPISODE PAGE (includes sources): https://weirddarkness.com/QuakersOnTheMoonABOUT WEIRD DARKNESS: Weird Darkness is a true crime and paranormal podcast narrated by professional award-winning voice actor, Darren Marlar. Seven days per week, Weird Darkness focuses on all things strange and macabre such as haunted locations, unsolved mysteries, true ghost stories, supernatural manifestations, urban legends, unsolved or cold cases, conspiracy theories, and more. Weird Darkness has been named one of the “20 Best Storytellers in Podcasting” by Podcast Business Journal. Listeners have described the show as a blend of “Coast to Coast AM”, “The Twilight Zone”, “Unsolved Mysteries”, and “In Search Of”.DISCLAIMER: Stories and content in Weird Darkness can be disturbing for some listeners and intended for mature audiences only. Parental discretion is strongly advised.#MoonQuakers #GreatMoonHoax #MormonHistory #BatMen #1835Hoax #LunarMystery #StrangeHistory #AmericanHistory #ReligiousHistory #WeirdDarkness

Fernando Mendoza and Cameron Boozer could make history as the first pair of No. 1 overall picks from the same high school in two different sports, with Mendoza headed to the NFL and Boozer to the NBA. Joe and Dave also break down some of the top college basketball talent, including BYU's AJ Dybantsa, while discussing the unique Mormon culture on campus and Joe's own experience trying to get a beer 15 miles off-campus. The conversation shifts to football as they analyze Mike McDaniel's move to the Chargers, noting his decision to pass on the Commanders—where his friend Dan Quinn is head coach—and how Los Angeles is the perfect fit for his personality and coaching style.

Send us a textMike and Doug recount a cathartic, slightly unhinged weekend in Utah full of music, laughter, rituals, and deep connection. From a racist Uber ride and wandering the Joseph Smith Memorial building to writing a new song about living again, the episode moves through politics, spirituality, grief, and creativity without losing its joy. At the center is something simple and necessary: being alive together, making art, and remembering how good it feels to actually live.Want more? Our full archive of 200+ Mormons on Mushrooms episodes — past conversations, stories, and musical adventures — now lives in on Supercast.

MRM's Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson interview Rob Bowman on some new articles published on the IRR website, including this on contradictions on the Book of Mormon. Check out the website at irr.org.

Benny grew up feeling like something about him was “wrong.” After pushing through the Mormon path—full-time mission, BYU education—he eventually came out and began learning how to love himself for who he is. With his expertise in gender and sexuality, we talk about Mormon manhood, coming out at BYU, his continued fascination with deep-cut LDS doctrine, and how he's embracing new forms of spirituality today. Join the Girlscamp: After Dark Patreon account ⁠⁠here⁠ for two bonus episodes per month and more. For more Girlscamp content follow along on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠, ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠. For ad inquiries please email girlscamppodcast@gmail.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Three women. Three abductions. Same beliefs. Same geography. Same church.Elleshia Seymour is now in Croatian custody after allegedly fleeing Utah with her four children because she believed the apocalypse was coming. She left behind a to-do list instructing herself to shred documents and buy a burner phone. She left a note she described as a "message from God." And she left a secret TikTok account filled with videos warning that Salt Lake City would be destroyed and COVID vaccines were turning people into zombies.Her children — ages 11, 8, 7, and 3 — are now trapped in a state-run orphanage in Dubrovnik. Their father is there. He can see them two hours a day. The three-year-old doesn't understand why he can't go home.This case would be disturbing enough on its own. But Elleshia Seymour isn't an anomaly. She's a pattern.Lori Vallow believed the same things. Her children J.J. and Tylee were murdered — their bodies found in her boyfriend Chad Daybell's backyard. Spring Thibaudeau believed the same things. She fled toward Canada with her teenage son before the FBI caught her.All three women came from LDS backgrounds. All three developed apocalyptic beliefs centered on the same theology — the same "end times" doctrine the Church teaches as mainstream. All three left children traumatized or dead.The LDS Church is worth an estimated $265 billion. It was fined by the SEC for hiding its wealth. It excommunicated Chad Daybell — but only after the murders. It excommunicated Julie Rowe — but only after years of influence.This is the story of a radicalization pipeline that keeps producing victims — and an institution that keeps looking the other way.#ElleshiaSeymour #LoriVallow #ChadDaybell #MormonDoomsday #LDSChurch #DoomsdayMom #TrueCrime #CroatiaAbduction #ChildAbduction #ReligiousExtremismJoin Our SubStack For AD-FREE ADVANCE EPISODES & EXTRAS!: https://hiddenkillers.substack.com/Want to comment and watch this podcast as a video? Check out our YouTube Channel. https://www.youtube.com/@hiddenkillerspodInstagram https://www.instagram.com/hiddenkillerspod/Facebook https://www.facebook.com/hiddenkillerspod/Tik-Tok https://www.tiktok.com/@hiddenkillerspodX Twitter https://x.com/tonybpodListen Ad-Free On Apple Podcasts Here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/true-crime-today-premium-plus-ad-free-advance-episode/id1705422872This publication contains commentary and opinion based on publicly available information. All individuals are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Nothing published here should be taken as a statement of fact, health or legal advice.

Part history, part annotated bibliography, and wholly enlightening, this book also provides an extensive catalog of the office's diverse publications—from Sunday School cards to bound catechisms and spiritual treatises. Ideal for historians, bibliophiles, and anyone interested in the intersection of faith, media, and regional identity, The Juvenile Instructor Office offers fresh insights into how one press helped define the literary voice of a people. It's a vital addition to the study of both American religious publishing and Utah's cultural development during a pivotal era. Craig S. Smith is a retired archaeologist living in the Salt Lake Valley. He is an avid book collector mainly focused on Utah and the Mormons, and especially interested in nineteenth-century printing in Utah. He has collected items published by the Juvenile Instructor Office for the past twenty-five years. The post The Juvenile Instructor Office – Craig Smith – 1008 appeared first on The Cultural Hall Podcast.

Four American children are trapped in a Croatian orphanage right now. Their father flew across the world to get them — and he's only allowed to see them two hours a day. The reason? Their mother, Elleshia Seymour, allegedly believed the apocalypse was coming. She loaded them onto a one-way flight to Europe, convinced that Salt Lake City was about to be destroyed and that COVID vaccines were turning people into zombies.Sound familiar? It should. Lori Vallow believed the same things. So did Spring Thibaudeau. Three "doomsday moms" in six years — all from the Mormon corridor, all with nearly identical beliefs, all leaving children traumatized or dead.The LDS Church calls these women "fringe." But when the same theology keeps producing the same tragedies in the same geography, at what point does it become an institutional problem? The Church teaches apocalyptic preparation as official doctrine. It allows members to claim "personal revelation" from God. It let Chad Daybell publish doomsday books and hold conferences for years before excommunicating him — after his stepdaughter's remains were found burned in his backyard.Meanwhile, the Church sits on $265 billion in assets. It paid $5 million in SEC fines for hiding its wealth. And it still hasn't addressed the radicalization pipeline operating within its own ecosystem.In this episode, we break down how Elleshia Seymour's case connects to a much larger pattern — and why the children of Mormon doomsday believers keep paying the price for an institution that won't police its own extremists.#ElleshiaSeymour #LoriVallow #ChadDaybell #DoomsdayMom #LDSChurch #MormonExtremism #ChildAbduction #CroatiaKidnapping #TrueCrime #HiddenKillersJoin Our SubStack For AD-FREE ADVANCE EPISODES & EXTRAS!: https://hiddenkillers.substack.com/Want to comment and watch this podcast as a video? Check out our YouTube Channel. https://www.youtube.com/@hiddenkillerspodInstagram https://www.instagram.com/hiddenkillerspod/Facebook https://www.facebook.com/hiddenkillerspod/Tik-Tok https://www.tiktok.com/@hiddenkillerspodX Twitter https://x.com/tonybpodListen Ad-Free On Apple Podcasts Here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/true-crime-today-premium-plus-ad-free-advance-episode/id1705422872This publication contains commentary and opinion based on publicly available information. All individuals are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Nothing published here should be taken as a statement of fact, health or legal advice.

MRM's Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson interview Rob Bowman on some new articles published on the IRR website, including this on contradictions on the Book of Mormon. Check out the website at irr.org.

Three women. Three abductions. Same beliefs. Same geography. Same church.Elleshia Seymour is now in Croatian custody after allegedly fleeing Utah with her four children because she believed the apocalypse was coming. She left behind a to-do list instructing herself to shred documents and buy a burner phone. She left a note she described as a "message from God." And she left a secret TikTok account filled with videos warning that Salt Lake City would be destroyed and COVID vaccines were turning people into zombies.Her children — ages 11, 8, 7, and 3 — are now trapped in a state-run orphanage in Dubrovnik. Their father is there. He can see them two hours a day. The three-year-old doesn't understand why he can't go home.This case would be disturbing enough on its own. But Elleshia Seymour isn't an anomaly. She's a pattern.Lori Vallow believed the same things. Her children J.J. and Tylee were murdered — their bodies found in her boyfriend Chad Daybell's backyard. Spring Thibaudeau believed the same things. She fled toward Canada with her teenage son before the FBI caught her.All three women came from LDS backgrounds. All three developed apocalyptic beliefs centered on the same theology — the same "end times" doctrine the Church teaches as mainstream. All three left children traumatized or dead.The LDS Church is worth an estimated $265 billion. It was fined by the SEC for hiding its wealth. It excommunicated Chad Daybell — but only after the murders. It excommunicated Julie Rowe — but only after years of influence.This is the story of a radicalization pipeline that keeps producing victims — and an institution that keeps looking the other way.#ElleshiaSeymour #LoriVallow #ChadDaybell #MormonDoomsday #LDSChurch #DoomsdayMom #TrueCrime #CroatiaAbduction #ChildAbduction #ReligiousExtremismJoin Our SubStack For AD-FREE ADVANCE EPISODES & EXTRAS!: https://hiddenkillers.substack.com/Want to comment and watch this podcast as a video? Check out our YouTube Channel. https://www.youtube.com/@hiddenkillerspodInstagram https://www.instagram.com/hiddenkillerspod/Facebook https://www.facebook.com/hiddenkillerspod/Tik-Tok https://www.tiktok.com/@hiddenkillerspodX Twitter https://x.com/tonybpodListen Ad-Free On Apple Podcasts Here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/true-crime-today-premium-plus-ad-free-advance-episode/id1705422872This publication contains commentary and opinion based on publicly available information. All individuals are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Nothing published here should be taken as a statement of fact, health or legal advice.

It's time for our annual Mormon Studies Books in Review episode, where we take stock of the most compelling non-fiction, literature, and creative works on Mormon themes published in 2025. In this wide-ranging conversation, Dialogue book review editors… The post 2025 Mormon Studies Books in Review appeared first on Dialogue Journal.

Retired FBI agent and criminal profiler Candice DeLong examines the chilling case of Arthur Gary Bishop, a devout Mormon and trusted member of his Utah community whose outward normalcy concealed a violent predator. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, Bishop abducted and murdered at least five young boys in Salt Lake City, Utah. Known to those around him as quiet and unassuming, Bishop secretly harbored obsessive sexual fantasies and a deep need for control – and as his feelings intensified, those fantasies turned lethal. Candice explores how years of hidden obsession and unchecked compulsion ultimately erupted into a pattern of calculated, predatory violence, and how a killer hiding in plain sight was finally exposed.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

MRM's Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson interview Rob Bowman on some new articles published on the IRR website, including this on contradictions on the Book of Mormon. Check out the website at irr.org.

In this episode, Bryan sits down with Brandi and AJ to hear how a lifetime of devotion to Mormon exaltation turned into what they call “grinding for godhood”—a relentless pursuit of worthiness, temple marriage, and eternal approval. Their story reveals the hidden pressure of a works-based faith and sets the stage for how God began to unravel everything they thought was true.--The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday. Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.Donate Now--Check out Brandi's Book: The Journey to Jesus: Finding Christ after Leaving MormonismGrinding for Godhood: Life Inside Mormon ExaltationIn this episode, Bryan talks with Brandi and AJ, two former Mormons who were fully committed to their faith from childhood. Brandi introduces a phrase that captures their experience perfectly: “grinding for godhood.” It describes a life shaped by striving—keeping covenants, qualifying for temple blessings, and doing everything necessary to reach exaltation.What does “grinding for godhood” mean?Brandi explains that from a young age she believed her purpose was to tap into her divine nature and eventually become like God. This wasn't driven by ego or a desire to be worshiped. It felt like obligation—this is what I was created for, and I have to take it seriously.AJ felt the same pressure. The temple represented the ultimate goal: exaltation, eternal family, and eternal progression. Getting to the temple—and staying worthy—was everything.Women, godhood, and the templeFor Brandi, godhood wasn't just a “male” idea. She fully expected to become like a “Heavenly Mother,” even though Heavenly Mother was rarely discussed in Mormonism. Eternity was tied to temple marriage, which meant finding the right husband wasn't optional—it was essential.That belief raised the stakes on dating, college decisions, and life itself.Utah vs. California MormonismAJ grew up in Utah, where Mormonism was normal and rarely questioned. Brandi grew up in California, constantly interacting with non-Mormons and Christians who challenged her beliefs. Instead of weakening her faith, that pressure made her more confident and outspoken.Brandi actively debated theology, defended the Restoration, and gave Book of Mormons to friends and teachers—believing she was sharing something life-changing.BYU and the pressure to marryAt BYU Provo, the urgency intensified. Brandi describes the dating culture as competitive and...

The Ericksons introduce a massive new scripture project for Independent Mormons and all Restorationists. We discuss the contentious issue of priesthood authority outside the LDS Church, and explain why they believe authority can exist in multiple branches of the Restoration simultaneously. https://youtu.be/aSKNhcLwtqY Don’t miss our other conversations on Mormon fundamentalism: https://gospeltangents.com/denominations/fundamentalim/ 00:00 – Independent Mormons Restored Version of Scriptures: Discussion of a new “triple combination” project spearheaded by Drew Briney. This edition includes the 1840 Book of Mormon text, formatted in paragraphs, and contains nearly 100 unpublished revelations from Joseph Smith and John Taylor. 12:00 – Details of the New Edition: The new scriptures are annotated to show every substantial change in the text over history. It excludes “press releases” like the Manifestos but includes the Lectures on Faith and the full Wentworth Letter. 20:00 – The Authority Question: Rick asks how the Ericksons claim authority without belonging to an established group like the AUB or Kingstons. Joshua argues that authority is broadly distributed, citing the Book of Mormon where Lehi and Jeremiah held authority simultaneously without coordinating. 28:00 – Priesthood vs. Church: A discussion on the fundamentalist view that the priesthood exists independently of the corporate church structure. Joshua shares his experience of being rebaptized and reordained to align with scriptural requirements for married priesthood holders. 35:00 – Rebaptism: Why independents view rebaptism as a renewable covenant and a preparation for special events (like temple dedications), rather than a one-time event3536. • 40:00 – Can Josephites and Brighamites Unite?: The group discusses the difficulty of unifying the various Restoration branches, noting that polygamy is often the “third rail” that prevents full unity

In this episode, Bryan sits down with Brandi and AJ to hear how a lifetime of devotion to Mormon exaltation turned into what they call “grinding for godhood”—a relentless pursuit of worthiness, temple marriage, and eternal approval. Their story reveals the hidden pressure of a works-based faith and sets the stage for how God began to unravel everything they thought was true.--The Unveiling Mormonism podcast pulls back the curtain on Mormon history, culture and doctrine. Join us for new episodes every Monday. Find resources to talk about these episodes at pursueGOD.org/mormonism.Help others go "full circle" as a follower of Jesus through our 12-week Pursuit series.Click here to learn more about how to use these resources at home, with a small group, or in a one-on-one discipleship relationship.Got questions or want to leave a note? Email us at podcast@pursueGOD.org.Donate Now--Check out Brandi's Book: The Journey to Jesus: Finding Christ after Leaving MormonismGrinding for Godhood: Life Inside Mormon ExaltationIn this episode, Bryan talks with Brandi and AJ, two former Mormons who were fully committed to their faith from childhood. Brandi introduces a phrase that captures their experience perfectly: “grinding for godhood.” It describes a life shaped by striving—keeping covenants, qualifying for temple blessings, and doing everything necessary to reach exaltation.What does “grinding for godhood” mean?Brandi explains that from a young age she believed her purpose was to tap into her divine nature and eventually become like God. This wasn't driven by ego or a desire to be worshiped. It felt like obligation—this is what I was created for, and I have to take it seriously.AJ felt the same pressure. The temple represented the ultimate goal: exaltation, eternal family, and eternal progression. Getting to the temple—and staying worthy—was everything.Women, godhood, and the templeFor Brandi, godhood wasn't just a “male” idea. She fully expected to become like a “Heavenly Mother,” even though Heavenly Mother was rarely discussed in Mormonism. Eternity was tied to temple marriage, which meant finding the right husband wasn't optional—it was essential.That belief raised the stakes on dating, college decisions, and life itself.Utah vs. California MormonismAJ grew up in Utah, where Mormonism was normal and rarely questioned. Brandi grew up in California, constantly interacting with non-Mormons and Christians who challenged her beliefs. Instead of weakening her faith, that pressure made her more confident and outspoken.Brandi actively debated theology, defended the Restoration, and gave Book of Mormons to friends and teachers—believing she was sharing something life-changing.BYU and the pressure to marryAt BYU Provo, the urgency intensified. Brandi describes the dating culture as competitive and...

Hosted by Pastor Ed TaylorOriginating from GRACE FM in Aurora, Colorado, Calvary Liveis a one hour program that answers questions about issues surrounding life, godliness, and living for Jesus Christ in our ever-changing culture.

Protecting your ideas can be the difference between building momentum and watching someone else run with your work. In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, I sit down with patent attorney and entrepreneur Devin Miller to explore what founders and business owners really need to know about patents, trademarks, and intellectual property. Devin shares how his background in engineering, startups, and law shaped his approach to innovation, and he breaks down the real differences between provisional and non-provisional patents in clear, practical terms. We talk about common mistakes entrepreneurs make, how legal protection supports growth instead of slowing it down, and why understanding intellectual property early can help you compete with confidence. I believe this conversation will give you clarity, direction, and a stronger foundation for protecting what you work so hard to create. Highlights: 00:01:18 – Hear how growing up in a small town shaped Devin's approach to problem-solving and business.00:12:53 – Learn why Devin combined engineering, business, and law instead of choosing a single career path.00:19:32 – Discover how a student competition turned into a real wearable technology startup.00:30:57 – Understand the clear difference between patents, trademarks, and copyrights.00:33:05 – Learn when a provisional patent makes sense and when it does not.00:53:52 – Discover what practical options exist when competitors copy or knock off your product. About the Guest: Devin Miller is the founder of Miller IP, a firm launched in 2018 that helps startups and small businesses protect their inventions and brands without breaking the bank. He's overseen over a thousand patent and trademark filings with a 95 percent success rate on patents and an 85 percent success rate on trademarks, making sure garage inventors and side hustlers get the same high-quality service as big tech. Before starting his firm, Devin spent years at large law firms working with clients like Intel and Amazon, but he found his true passion in helping scrappy entrepreneurs turn ideas into assets. He blends legal know how with an entrepreneur's mindset, offering flat fee packages, DIY legal tools, and hosting webinars and a podcast series to demystify IP. A lifelong runner who knocks out 10+ miles a day and 30-40 miles daily biking (except Sunday), Devin listens to audiobooks and podcasts while training for marathons. When he's not drafting office action responses or co-hosting Inventive Journey, you might catch him brainstorming the next Inventive Youth program or sipping coffee while sketching partnership agreements. Ways to connect with Devin**:** If you'd like to talk strategy or swap running playlist recs, feel free to schedule a chat at http://strategymeeting.com LinkedIn profile  https://www.linkedin.com/in/lawwithmiller/ Firm website [https://www.lawwithmiller.com](https://www.lawwithmiller.com "https://www.lawwithmiller.com") About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Well, hello to all of you, wherever you happen to be today, you are listening to or watching or both unstoppable mindset and I am your host. Mike hingson, our guest today is Devin Miller, who founded the company, Miller IP, and he'll tell us all about that and what that means and so on as we go through this. But I will tell you that he is a lawyer. He deals with patents and other things and a lot of stuff relating to startups. I think that's going to be a lot of fun to talk about. So without any further ado, as it were, Devin, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Thanks for having me on. Excited to be here. Well, we're glad. We're glad you're here. Can you hear me? Okay, now I hear you. Devin Miller  02:06 Well, we're sorry for the delay, but I said I'm excited to be here and looking forward to chatting. Michael Hingson  02:11 Well, perfect. Well, let's start. I love to always do this. Let's start kind of at the beginning. Why don't you tell us about the early Devon, growing up and all that? Devin Miller  02:21 You know, I I'm happy to do. I don't know there's anything that probably stands out. I was probably fairly typical. So I was raised in a religious family, so we're attended church regularly every week. And I had a couple sisters, an older and a younger one, and was went through, went through schooling and or studied, probably the typical course. So I don't know there's anything stands out. I was in a small town, so grew up as, probably not as small as I'd like it to be anymore, but a small farming town, and it was, it was kind of always enjoyed the small town fill, and actually am back to being in that same hometown where I live now with my family. But yeah, so I did that, and I did probably the at the time, the typical thing with the it's growing up with kids and sports and doing things, and went through high school and and after that, jumped or went off to college. But I don't know if there's anything in particular that stands out in my mind, other than probably, at least in my mind, a pretty typical childhood and upbringing, but enjoyed it nonetheless. But happy to provide any details or I can jump into a bit about college. Michael Hingson  03:38 Well, where did you go to college? Devin Miller  03:40 Yeah, so I went to Brigham, young university, just or BYU, just out here in Utah. So I went off to so, or I graduated high school and I went off to a year of college. So I went off to BYU, kind of intending to go into electrical engineering, which is what I or one of the degrees I ended up studying with, and then I did that for a year, and after which I went off and did a served a religious mission for my church, so Church of Jesus Christ, or Latter Day Saints, otherwise nicknamed Mormon. So I went off and went to Taiwan for about two years. So didn't have any idea, even at that point where Taiwan was and certainly didn't know the language, but when studied that, or they have a training center where you get an opportunity to study it for about three months. So I studied it and then went off to Taiwan and served that religious mission for my church for a couple years before coming back to the high school, or good, not the high school to college to continue my studies. Michael Hingson  04:43 I several, several comments. One, I know what you mean about small hometowns. We moved from Chicago, where I was born, to California when I was five, we moved to a town called Palmdale, and it was a very small rural town about 60. Five miles north of Los Angeles. I don't know what the population was when we first moved there, but it couldn't have been more than 1000 or 1500 people spread out over a little bit of a distance. For me, it was great, because without there being a lot of traffic, I was able to do things I might not have done nearly as well in Chicago things like riding a bike, learning to ride a bike and walking to school and and not ever fearing about walking to school for any reasons, including being blind. But oftentimes I once I learned how to do it, I rode my own bike to school and locked it in the bike rack and then rode home and all that. But then Palmdale started to grow and I'm not quite sure what the population is today, but I live in a town about 55 miles east of Palmdale called Victorville, and as I described Victorville growing up, it was not even a speck on a radar scope compared to the small town of Palmdale, but we we moved down to Southern California from the Bay Area my wife and I to be closer to family and so on. In 2014 we wanted to build a house for Karen, because she was in a wheelchair her whole life. So we wanted to get a a house that would be accessible. And my gosh, the only place we could find any property was Victorville. And at that time, in 2014 it had 115,000 people in it. It has grown. Now it Devin Miller  06:31 has grown. And it tends to be that, you know, it feels like everybody's always kind of chasing the small town then, or people find out about it. Everybody moves in. It's no longer a small town, and then you're off to chasing the the next small town, wherever that might be. So it's kind of a perpetual cycle of of chasing that small or at least for the people to like it. Not everybody loves it, but I'm certainly a proponent of chasing that small town feel from from place to places, as you're trying to or trying to find or recreate what you probably grew up with. So it is a it is a cycle that everybody I think is chasing, Michael Hingson  07:09 yeah, well, for me now, my wife passed away in 2022 we were married 40 years. And so the thing about it is that there are probably advantages for me living alone, being in a place that has a few more people and a few more of the kind of amenities that at least somewhat larger towns have, like a Costco and some some restaurants. We actually live in a homeowner's development, a homeowner's association called Spring Valley Lake, and I live within walking distance of the Country Club, which has a nice restaurant, so I'm able to go to the to the restaurant whenever I choose, and that's kind of nice. So there's value for me and being here and people say, Well, do you ever want to move from Victorville now that your wife died? And why do I want to do that? Especially since I have a 3.95% mortgage? You know, I'm not going to do that, and I'm in a new house that. Well, relatively new. It was built in 2016 so it's pretty much built to code. And insulation is great. Solar is great on the house. Air conditioning works, so I can't complain. Devin Miller  08:20 No, sounds like a good setup, and it's kind of one where, why, if you enjoy where you're at, why would you move to go somewhere else that you wouldn't necessarily enjoy? So it just sounds like it works out. Michael Hingson  08:29 Well, it does, and I can always, as I need to being a keynote speaker and traveling, there's a shuttle that'll take me down to the nearest airports. So that works out. Well, that's awesome. So you went to, I'm a little bit familiar with the the whole LDS missionary program, Mission program, we we were not part of the church, but we lived, when my wife and I got married, we lived in Mission Viejo and we had neighbors right next door to us, who were members of the church, and they came over one day and they said, we have an issue. And I said, Okay. And my wife said, Okay, what's the issue? Well, we have a couple of missionaries coming in, and the only homes that are available to these two boys are homes that already have young female girls in them. So they really can't be in those homes. Would you be willing to rent your one of your rooms to missionaries? And so we said, and well, Karen said, because she was a member of the Methodist church, we said, as long as they don't try to mormonize us, we won't try to methodize them. And we would love to do it. And it worked out really well. We had a couple of missionaries for a while, and then they switched out. And eventually we had a gentleman from Tonga for a while, and we actually had a couple girls for for a while. So it worked out really well, and we we got to know them all, and it was a great relationship. And they did their work, and at Christmas time, they certainly were invited to our Christmas parties. We. Had every year a party. What we actually had was what we call a Christmas tree upping. We got the tree, we brought it into the house, and we invited all of our friends and neighbors to come and decorate the tree in the house. Because, needless to say, we weren't going to do that very well. Karen especially wasn't going to be able to stand up and decorate the tree. So we got them to do all the tree decorations and all that, and we fed them. So it worked out. Devin Miller  10:26 Well, it's awesome. Sounds like, great. And you hit on. I said, that's probably my, my favorite part of the Christmas is a Christmas tree. So growing up, we always had a real live tree, but it was always, you know, it was downstairs in the basement, and had lower ceilings. And so I was always kind of the opinion, hey, when I grow up, I want to have the a huge, you know, kind of like in the newbies at 20 plus or 20 or 20 plus foot tree, yeah. And lo and behold, we, or at least the couple houses that we build have always had, at least in the living space, have had the pretty high ceilings. And so that's always what we do. We'll go out and we'll cut down a live tree. So we'll go out to kind of in nature, to the forest, where they let you cut them down, and we'll, we'll cut down, usually it's around a 20 plus foot tree, and then have it strung up in the house. And I always tell my wife, I said, I'd rather that one could be my Christmas present. I'd be just as happy, because as long as I have my tree, it's a good Christmas for me. Michael Hingson  11:23 Yeah, oh, I hear you. Well, one of the boys who lived next door to us went off on a mission to, I think it was Argentina, and was gone for, I guess, two years. What was really funny is when he came back, it took him a while to re acclimatize his speaking English and getting back his American accent. He was he definitely had much more of a Spanish accent, and was much more used to speaking Spanish for a while. So the the three month exposure period certainly got him started at the at the center there in Utah. And then he went off and did his missionary work and then came home. But, you know, it's, it's got to be a wonderful and a very valuable experience. How do you think it affected you? Devin Miller  12:10 Yeah, I think I said, I think it would be, you said it probably well, is it like one where to say, Hey, this is the most fun time in your life, and you'll never have a more fun time. I don't know that. It's kind of like, you know, I liken it to I so I like to do a lot of running, so or in older years. I don't know that I was as much in younger years, but kind of discovered not that I love running, per se, but love to get out and decompress and otherwise, kind of have a time where I don't have a lot of intrusions or other things that are pressing in on life. And so with that, you know, I've done a number of marathons and marathons, you know, everybody again, says, Well, did you have fun? Or was it a good or was it good marathon? So I don't know that it's ever fun. I don't and do it, but it's a good accomplishment. You it's, you go out, you set your mind to something, and then otherwise, at the end of the day, you reach your goal. And, you know, kind of has the that sense of accomplishment and learning and become improving yourself. That's probably a lot of how I like in a mission is, you know, you have a lot of stresses of learning a new language, being in a different culture, doing something that you're unfamiliar with or not accustomed to, and at the end, you know, you learn a lot of things, you are gain a lot of skills. You hopefully impact a lot of people's lives for the better. And so it is definitely one of those where it's a great accomplishment, but it's not, you know, it's not one way to say, hey, this was a fun vacation where I got to go play for two years. So it it works out well, and I would absolutely do it again. Michael Hingson  13:31 Yeah, I'm sure you learned a lot, and you probably learned a whole lot more in a lot of ways, than most of the people that you you visited with because you treated it as an adventure and an adventure to learn. So that's pretty cool, absolutely. So you came back from that and you went back to college, and did you continue in electrical engineering? Or what Devin Miller  13:56 did you do? Yes and no. So I did continue in electrical engineering. Or so I came back and, you know, the intent was, and what I continue to do is to study electrical engineering. I did add on a second degree, which I was a Mandarin Chinese and so I can't remember, I mentioned I I served in Taiwan for those couple years and had an opportunity to kind of, you know, learn and study the language. So as I was doing that, I kind of came back and said, Well, if I've already put in the effort to learn the language and to study it, I might as well, you know, utilize it, or add it to the degree. And so I I really started, or I added that as a second degree to the first degree. So I came out with both the degree in Chinese or man or Chinese, as well as electrical engineering. So yes, continue to study that. And then from that, you know, kind of just as a part of that story. So I was coming out, kind of getting, you know, the senior year, kind of getting towards the end of that degree, and looked at and said, you know, what do I want to do when I grow up? And I still know if I know the full answer, but I did look at it and say, Hey, I, you know, I don't know exactly what I want to do when I grow up, but I don't, I like engineering. Engineering, but I don't want to be an engineer in the sense that, you know, not that I didn't like engineering, but it was one where a typical electrical engineers, you come out of graduate school, you go work for a big company. You're a very small cog and a very big Will you work for. You know, 1015, years, you gain enough experience to have any say your direction and what projects you work on or really have any impact. Not saying that's not really what I want to do when I grow up, or when I start into the working world. And so kind of with that, I, you know, I had a couple interests I enjoyed, you know, kind of the startup, small business, kind of that type of world. And I also found it interesting to on the legal aspect of intellectual property, so patents, trademarks, and really more. At the idea of, hey, you're going to work with a lot of cooling or cool inventions, cool people are working on a lot of unique things, and you get a lot more variety. And you get, you know, kind of be more impactful. And so that was kind of the the Crossroads I found myself at saying which, you know, kind of which direction I want to go. And, you know, kind of, rather than take one or the other, I kind of, I split the road and decided I was going to do both. So I went off to graduate school and did both an MBA or a master's in business administration as well as a law degree, kind of focused more on intellectual property. So went off and studied both of those kind of with the intent of, you know, I don't want to just be fit into one box or do just one thing, but I'd like to keep a foot in the business world, startup world, and have an opportunity to pursue my own business as well as doing the law degree. So I did that in a Case Western Reserve out in Cleveland, Ohio, studying both of those degrees Michael Hingson  16:34 when you were getting your degree in manner, in Chinese. Was that all about speaking the language, or was it also involved in history and civilization and understanding more about China? What was it like? Devin Miller  16:47 It was really more, certainly, there was a or, I guess, are you saying within college or within the mission itself? 16:54 In college? Okay, yeah. I mean, it was, Devin Miller  16:57 it was still primarily focused on the language. You know, the nice thing is, you can test out of a number of the, you know, entry level or their beginning classes, as long as you can show a proficiency. So there may have been some of that, and you still got, you know, some of the classes, would you still study a little bit of poetry, or, you know, within the language context, they've used poetry as a way to kind of learn different aspects of the language. You'd get a little bit of history, but pretty, or vast majority of focus was kind of both speaking as well as the the written and, you know, those are really as opposed to, like English speaking, where it's phonetics and you can or sound out and kind of understand what a you know, what something means by sounding it out, you don't have to know the word in order To, you know, to pronounce it. Chinese is not that way. So you have characters that are just every character you have to memorize. There is no phonetics. There's no way that you can look at a character and sound it out. And so there's a large amount of just memorizing, memorizing, you know, 20,000 characters to read a newspaper type of a thing. And then on the flip side is you have to learn the language, which is, you know, which are already focused on that, more on the mission, but you have to do pronunciation, so you can say the same word with different tones and it has entirely different meaning. So really, there was enough there on the language side, they tended to primarily focus on that, just because there was quite a bit there to Michael Hingson  18:19 dive into. It's a complicated language. Devin Miller  18:23 It it is certainly or uniquely different from English. I would say probably English to Chinese speakers is the hardest language because it's the most different from their language. And vice versa for English speaking Chinese is at least one of the this or harder languages because it is entirely different. So it is one that has a lot of intricacies that you get to learn. Michael Hingson  18:45 I took German in high school for three years, and then in college, I did a lot of shortwave listening and encountered radio Japan a bunch. So I actually took a year of Japanese, and I think from a written language, it's a lot more complicated than spoken language. I think it's a lot more straightforward than Chinese and a lot of ways easier to learn. But even so, it is different than than Latin languages by any standard. Devin Miller  19:16 But it is. It's an animal in and of itself, but it makes it fun. Michael Hingson  19:21 Yeah, that's right, it does make it fun. Incident. And then, as I said, it was an adventure. And all of that was, was an adventure. My master's is in physics. That was an adventure. And until you spend a lot of time dealing with physics and hopefully getting beyond just doing the math, you learn how much of a philosophical bent and how much about society and the way things work really is wrapped up in physics. So again, it's it's kind of fun, and unlike a lot of physicists or engineers. I've never thought that one is better or worse than the other. I think they both have purposes. And so as a physics person, I never pick on engineers. Devin Miller  20:11 I am, I wouldn't pick up. I wouldn't pick on any physics or physicists or physics majors, either, because that's equally, if not more difficult. And so there's a lot of learning that goes on and involved with all of them. But they're all of them are fun areas to Michael Hingson  20:26 study with. They are. So once you you got your master's degrees, and you you got your law degree, what did you go off and do? Devin Miller  20:36 Yeah, so I mean, I would probably back it up just a little bit. So kind of during that period where I was getting the degrees, couple things happened. Had a couple kids. So started out first kid while I was doing the, I guess the second year where I was in under or doing the law and MBA degree, doing it as a joint degree. And so had the had a kid. And then during that same period, the next year, about a year about a year and a half later, had another kid. And so that puts me as a it's a four year program, if you combine both of them together. And so I was in the kind of the third year, the four year program. And while I was doing those studies, you know, I had a I was doing a couple things. One is, I was doing the both, or studying both majors, raising the family. I was working about 20 hours as a law clerk or for a law firm, and then during that, I can't remember or if it was a flyer, or if it was, you know, an email or whatnot, but came across a business competition, or it's kind of a, it was kind of a, a multi disciplinary competition wherever, you know, people of different degrees and different fields of study would get together, you form a group of four or five, and you work on developing an idea, and then you would enter it into the competition and see how it goes. And so we did that the first year, and we did something, an idea to make Gym Bags less smelly, and then enter that in and took second place. And during that period, next year comes along, we're all in our final year of our degree. And as we're doing that, we are studying the degree and or entering the competition again. And we decided to do something different. It was for wearables. You know, this is before Apple Watch, or, you know, the Fitbit, or anything else. It was well before I knew that, but we just said, Hey, when I was there, thinking, hey, wouldn't it be cool I'd ran my or, I think, my second marathon that time. Wouldn't it be awesome if you could monitor your hydration level so that you can make sure you're staying well hydrated throughout and it helps with the air, not being a sore and being, you know, quicker recovery and performing better. And so out of that, took the genesis of that idea, entered it back into the business comp, or that is a new idea, into the business competition, and did that with the partners, and took second place again, still a little bitter, or bitter that about that, because the people that took first place has entered the same thing that they entered the previous year, but polished, or took the money they've earned previously and polished it made it look a little nicer, and won again because it looked the most polished. But that aside, was a great, or great competition. Enjoyed it. And from that, you know, said, Hey, I think this is a good idea. I think it can be a, you know, something that you could actually build a business around. And so said, Hey, or kind of told the the people that were in the the group with me, you know, we're all graduating. We're going different directions. Would be pretty hard to do a startup altogether. So why don't we do this? Or why don't you guys take all the money that I got, you know that we you're in some reward money, or, you know, prize money. If you take my portion, split it amongst yourselves, and I'll just take ownership of the idea, whatever it is, where, you know, wherever I take it, and simply own it outright, you know, basically buying them out. And so that's what I did. So coming out of, you know, getting the MBA in the law degree, that was kind of always the intent. So, or coming out of school, I went and joined a law firm here in Utah. Was a full time patent attorney, and then alongside, you know, had the side hustle, what I'd really say is kind of a second full time job to where I was, you know, pursuing that startup or small business alongside of doing the law firm. So that was kind of the the genesis for, as I graduated full time attorney working, you know, with a lot of our cool clients and other things, and then also incorporating the desire to do a startup or small business. And that's kind of been, really, the trajectory that I've taken throughout my career is really, you know, finding ways to combine or to pursue both interests together. Michael Hingson  24:26 What happened to the business? Devin Miller  24:28 Yeah, so it so it's still alive today. I've been, I exited. Now it's been a couple year and a half, two years somewhere in there. Have to think back. So it started out. So with the business I started out, it was actually one where, rewinding just a little bit when we when I got started, my dad was also an electrical engineer. He'd actually, you know, he's well or farther into his career, and he done a number of different things across their medical devices through his career. And so he kind of, or he joined on as kind of doing it with us. Hustle with me, and we took that, started to build it. We brought on some additional team members. We brought on an investor, and actually built out and grew the business. It also evolved. So we were starting to test or test out the technology have it with some colleges and some other, you know, athletes, which was a natural place to start it at and about that time, and we were getting kind of to that next hurdle where we either needed to get a further investment or cash infusion, you know, to kind of take it to a more of a marketable, you know, a except a Polish full or ready to go to market type of product. And at that time, as we're exploring that we had or came or got connected with somebody that was more in the diabetes monitoring, they were doing it more from a service base. But you know, the overlay as to kind of how the technologies are overlapped with what they're doing tended to work out pretty well. And so we ended up combining the business to be one, where it was redirected a lot of the technology we developed underlining to be more of a wearables for the diabetes monitor. So that was a number of years ago. I stayed on doing a lot of, some of the engineering and development, primarily more in the intellectual property realm, of doing a lot of patents and whatnot. And then about a year and a half, two years ago, got bought out, was exited from that company and and that continues on today. It's still alive and growing, and I kind of watch it from, you know, from a distance, so to speak, or kind of continue to maintain interest, but don't are not necessarily active within the business anymore. So that was kind of a long answer to a shorter question, but that's kind of where the business eventually evolved to. Michael Hingson  26:36 So now I'm sure that the company is doing things like developing or working with products like continuous glucose monitors and so on. Devin Miller  26:46 Yep, yeah, that's kind of the direction as to what they're headed you Michael Hingson  26:49 well, and what's what's been interesting about several of the CGM type devices is that for people who are blind, there's been a real push to try to get some of them to be accessible. And what finally occurred about a year ago, maybe two years ago, is that one of the devices that's out there was approved to actually incorporate an app on a smartphone, and when the app came out, then it was really easy, although it took an effort to convince people to pay attention to it and do it, but it became technically a lot easier to deal with access, because all you had to do was to make the app accessible. And so there now is a continuous glucose monitor that that is accessible, whereas you wherein you get all the information from the app through voiceover, for example, on the iPhone or through talkback on a android phone that you get when you're just looking at the screen, which is the way it really should be anyway, because If you're going to do it, you should be inclusive and make it work for everyone. Devin Miller  28:06 No, that's cool. Yeah, there's a number of I think, between, you know, being a prevalent, you know, issue that people are dealing with, to, you know, different trying to address things earlier on, and also to motivate people do healthier lifestyle. And kind of the direction I think, is headed where a lot of the the company that's continues on today, from our original technology, is on the non invasive side. So a lot of them have, you have to have a patch, or you have to have periodically prick, or put an arm, you know, arm, right? Something where has a needle in the arm. And this one is kind of trying hair working to take it to that next level, to where it's no longer having to be invasive, and it's really all without having air with sensors that don't require you to have any sort of pain or prick in order to be able to utilize it. So kind of fun to fun to see how the industry continues to evolve. Michael Hingson  28:55 Well, today, we're working on that, and tomorrow, of course, the tricorder. So you know, we'll, we'll get to Star Trek 29:03 absolutely one step at a time. Michael Hingson  29:05 Yeah, but I've kind of figured that people were certainly working on non invasive technology so that you didn't have to have the sensor stuck in your arm. And I'm not surprised that that that's coming, and we'll be around before too long, just because we're learning so much about other ways of making the measurements that it makes sense to be able to do that. Devin Miller  29:31 Yep, no, absolutely. You know, it is a hard nut to crack. The body is very complex. A lot of things going on, and to measure it, not invasively, is certainly a lot that goes into it, but I think there's a lot of good, good technologies coming out. A lot of progress is being made, and certainly fun to continue to see how the health devices continue to hit the market. So certainly a cool area. Michael Hingson  29:53 So why did you decide, or maybe it was a natural progression, but why did you decide to go into patent law? Yeah. Devin Miller  30:01 I mean, I think it was probably a natural progression, and in the sense that, you know, it is one where overall desire was, Hey, I like engineering from the sense I like to think or how things work and kind of break things down and to have a better understanding. So really, intellectual property law and patents and trademarks and others allowed me to work with a lot of startups and small businesses, see a lot of cool things that they're developing still play a hand in it, and yet, also not, you know, be mired down to a long project over multiple years where you, you know, you're a small cog in a big wheel. And so, yeah, that was kind of one where it fit well within kind of the overall business, you know, business desire and business aspect of what I wanted to accomplish, and also just overall, you know, enjoying it or enjoying it. So that's kind of where it might, you know, it married well with the the desire to do startups and small businesses, as well as to work with a lot of other startups and small businesses. Michael Hingson  30:55 That's a lot of fun, to be able to deal with startups and see a lot of new and innovative kinds of things. And being in patent law, you probably see more than a lot of people, which does get to be exciting in an adventure, especially when you see something that looks like it has so much potential. Yep. Devin Miller  31:14 No, it is. It is fun. I get to see everything from I've worked on everything from boat anchors to credit card thing or devices that help elderly people to remove them more easily, from their wallet to AI to drones to software other or software platforms to medical devices. So it gives a ability to have a pretty good wide exposure to a lot of cool, different, you know, very different types of innovations, and that makes her just, you know, a fun, fun time, and be able to work or work with the air businesses as they develop. Are all those different technologies? Michael Hingson  31:50 Well, on the the law side of things, what's the difference between a provisional patent and a non provisional filing? Devin Miller  31:57 Yeah, so, so I don't back it up, and I'll get to your question. But maybe I'd set the stages to when you're looking at what is the difference between a patent and trademark and copyright, because a lot of times when people look at that, that's probably a good question too. Provisional trademark, or I want a, you know, or a non provisional copyright, or whatever it might be, and kind of get the terminology mixed up. So if you're to take it one step back, a provisional patent app or a patent is something that goes towards protecting an invention. So something that has the functionality that does something, that accomplishes something, a trademark is going to be something that is protecting of a brand. So name of a company, name of a product, a cash, phrase, a logo, and those type of things all really fall under trademarks and copyrights are going to be something that's more creative in nature. So a painting, a sculpture, a picture, a book, you know, all those type of things are going to fall under copyrights. And so really, when you're looking at it, you know, kind of breaking it down initially, you look at it as you know, which one is it. And so now to your question, Michael Hingson  32:58 well, before you go there, before you go ahead, before you go there. So if I'm writing software, does that fall under patent or copyright? I would assume if the software is to do something, it would be a patent. Devin Miller  33:12 So software primarily is under a patent. So there's, technically, you can copyright software. Now there's, it's pretty limited in its scope of protection. So if you're to do or software and do it under a copyright, really, all it protects is the exact way that you wrote the code. So you know, got it using this exact coding language. If somebody come along, copy and paste my code, you'll be protected. But it doesn't protect the functionality of how this code works or what it does. It is purely just how you wrote the code. So most of the time, when you're looking at software, it's really going to be more under a patent, because you're not going to want to just simply protect the identical way that you wrote the code, but rather what it does and what it does, yeah. So yep. So yeah, you for if you're to do as as your example, software, primarily, you're going to it's going to fall under patents. Michael Hingson  34:01 Okay, so anyway, back to provisional and non provisional. Devin Miller  34:05 Yeah, so, and when you're looking at doing a patent, you can do there's a couple different types of patents. One is a design patent. It really just goes to something the esthetic nature, the look and feel of a of an invention. So if you're thinking of the iPhone, you know, used to have the curved edges. I had the circle or a button at the bottom. It had, you know, the speaker placement and all those things. And it was just that outward appearance, not the functionality, could go under a design patent, but what the primary patent, which is what most people pursue, is what's called the utility patent application. And the utility patent application is really going towards the functionality of how something works. So the utility, how it works, what it does, and then kind of the purpose of it. And so with that, when you're looking at pursuing a utility patent application, there are a couple different types of patents that you can or types of utility patent patent applications. So. As you mentioned, one is called a provisional patent application. The other one is called a non provisional patent application. So a provisional patent application is kind of set up primarily, a lot of times for startups or small businesses where they're going to have a some product or an innovation that they're working on. They're in earlier stages. They're wanting to kind of protect what they have while they continue to develop it, and kind of flush it out. So provisional patent application is set up to be a one year placeholder application. So it will get, you know, you file it, you'll get patent pending, you'll get a date of invention, and it'll give you a year to decide if you want to pursue a full patent application or not. So you can file that gives you that one year time frame as a placeholder. The non provisional patent application would be the full patent application. So that would be what has, all the functionality, all the features, all the air, formalities and air, and it will go through the examination process. We'll go look at it for patentability. So those are kind of the difference provisional, one year, placeholder, less expensive, get your patent pending, versus the non provisional, that's the full patent application and gives you kind of that, or we'll go through examination. Michael Hingson  36:12 Do most people go through the provisional process just because it not only is less expensive, but at least it puts a hold and gives you a place. Devin Miller  36:22 It really just depends on where people are at. So kind of, you know, a lot of times people ask, Hey, well, what would you recommend? And I'll usually say, hey, there are typically two reasons why I would do a provisional patent application. And if you don't fall into either of those camps, then I would probably do a non provisional patent. Got it. So generally, the two reasons I get one is certainly budgetary. Give you an example. So our flat fee, you know, we do our primarily everything, flat fee in my firm, and a provisional patent application to prepare and file it, our flat fee is 2500 versus a non provisional patent application is 6950 so one is, Hey, your startup, small business, to have a limited funds, you're wanting to get a level of protection in place while you continue to pursue or develop things, then you would oftentimes do that as a provisional patent application. And the other reason, a lot of times where I would recommend it is, if you're saying, Hey, we've got a initial innovation, we think it's going to be great. We're still figuring things out, so we'd like to get something in place while we continue to do that research and develop it and kind of further figure it out. So that would be kind of, if you fall into one of those camps where it's either budgetary overlay, or it's one where you're wanting to get something in place and then take the next year to further develop it, then a provisional patent application is oftentimes a good route. There are also a lot of clients say, Hey, I'm, you know, we are pretty well. Did the Research Development getting ready to release it in the marketplace. While we don't have unlimited funds, we still have the ability to just simply go or go straight to a non provisional so we can get the examination process started, and then they'll go that route. So both of them are viable route. It's not kind of necessarily. One is inherently better or worse than the other is kind of more where you're at along the process and what, what kind of fits your needs the best. Michael Hingson  38:09 But at least there is a process that gives you options, and that's always good. Absolutely, patent laws, I well, I won't say it's straightforward, but given you know, in in our country today, we've got so many different kinds of things going on in the courts and all that, and sometimes one can only shake one's head at some of the decisions that are made regarding politics and all that, but that just seems to be a whole lot more complicated and a lot less straightforward than what you do With patent law? Is that really true? Or are there lots of curves that people bend things to go all sorts of different ways that make life difficult for you? Devin Miller  38:50 Um, probably a little bit of both. I think that it so. The law, legal system in general, is a much more slower moving enemy, so it does have a bit more of a kind of a basis to anticipate where things are headed in general. Now, the exception is, there always is an exception to the rule. Is that anytime the Supreme Court gets involved with patent law cases, I'd say 95% of the time, they make it worse rather than better. So, you know, you get judges that none of them are really have an experience or background in patent law. They've never done it. They really don't have too much familiarity with it, and now they're getting posed questions that are fairly involved in intricate and most of the time when they make decisions, they make it worse. It's less clear. You know, it's not as great of understanding, and it otherwise complicates things more. And so when you get the Supreme Court involved, then they can kind of make it more difficult or kind of shake things up. But by and large, it is a not that there isn't a lot of or involved in going through the process to convince the patent and examiner the patent office of patentability and make sure it's well drafted and has the it's good of coverage and scope, but at least there is, to a degree, that ability to anticipate. Hate, you know what it what's going to be required, or what you may likely to be looking at. You know? The other exception is, is, you know, the, ironically, I think the patent office is the only budget or producing or budget positive entity within all of the government. So every other part of the government spends much more money than they ever make. The Patent Office is, I think the, I think the postal office at one point was the other one, and they have, now are always in the in the red, and never make any money. But, you know, they are the patent office. Now, the problem with that is, you think, great, well now they can reinvest. They can approve, they should have the best technology, they should be the most up to date. They should have, you know, all the resources because they're self funding, and yet, there's always a piggy bank that the government goes to raid and redirects all those funds to other pet projects. And so, or the patent office is always, perpetually underfunded, as ironic as that is, because they're getting, always getting the piggy bank rated, and so with that, you know, they are, if you're to go into a lot of the patent office, their interfaces, their websites or databases, their systems, it feels like you're the onset of the or late 90s, early 2000s as far as everything goes. And so that always is not necessarily your question, but it's always a bit aggravating that you know you can't, as an example, can't submit color drawings. People ask, can you submit videos? Nope, you can't submit any videos of your invention, you know, can you provide, you know, other types of information? Nope, it's really just a written document, and it is line drawings that are black and white, and you can't submit anything beyond that. So there's one where I think eventually it will sometime, maybe shift or change, but it's going to be not anytime soon. I don't think there's any time on the horizon, because they're kind of stuck it once they move, moved over to the lit or initially onto the computer system, that's about where that evolution stopped. Michael Hingson  41:51 Well, the other thing though, with with videos, especially when you get AI involved and so on, are you really seeing a video of the invention. Or are you seeing something that somebody created that looks great, but the invention may not really do it. So I can understand their arguments, but there have to be ways to deal with that stuff. Devin Miller  42:13 Yeah, and I think that even be prior to AI, even we just had, you know, videos been around for 20 or 30 years, even, you know, digital format or longer. That probably, and the problem is, I think it's more of the search ability. So if you have a drawing, you can more easily search drawings and compare them side by side, and they'll do it. If you have a video, you know what? What format is the video? And is it a, you know, dot movie, or dot MOV, or is it.mp for is it color? Is it black and white? How do you capture it? Is it zoomed in as a kind of show all the details? Or is it zoomed out? And I think that there's enough difficulty in comparing video side by side and having a rigid enough or standardized format, the patent office said, man, we're not going to worry about it. Yes, so we could probably figure something out, but that's more work than anybody, any administration or any of the directors of the patent office ever want to tackle so it's just always kind of kicked down the road. Michael Hingson  43:06 Do they ever actually want to see the invention itself? Devin Miller  43:12 Not really, I mean, you so the short answer is no. I mean, they want to see the invention as it's captured within the the patent application. So the problem Michael Hingson  43:21 is, the drawing, they don't want to see the actual device, or whatever it is, well, and a lot Devin Miller  43:24 of times, you know as a inventors, they you know as a patent applicants, as the inventors and the owners, you're saying, hey, but I want to show them the invention. Problem is, the invention doesn't always mirror exactly what's showing in the patent application. Because you're on generation three of your product patent application is still in generation one, yeah, and so it doesn't mirror, and so the examiners are supposed to, they don't always, or aren't always good, and sometimes pull things and they shouldn't, but they're supposed to just consider whatever is conveyed in the patent application. Yeah, it's a closed world. And so bringing those additional things in now you can, so technically, you can request a live in office interview with the examiner, where you sit down live. You can bring in your invention or other or details and information, and when you do it live, face to face with an interview, you can walk them through it. Most very few people attorneys ever do that because one clients aren't going to want to pay for you to one of the offices, put you up in a hotel, you know, sit there, spend a day or two to or with the examiner to walk them through it. It just adds a significant amount of expense. Examiners don't particularly like it, because they have to dedicate significantly more time to doing that. Yeah, they're allotted, so they lose they basically are doing a lot of free work, and then you're pulling in a lot of information that they really can't consider. So you technically can. But I would say that you know, the likelihood of the majority of attorneys, 99 point whatever, percent don't do that, including myself. I've never been to do a live or live one, just because it just doesn't, it doesn't have enough advantage to make it worthwhile. Michael Hingson  44:58 Well, in talking about. About the law and all the things that go on with it. One of the things that comes to mind is, let's say you have somebody in the United States who's patenting, or has made a patent. What happens when it all goes to it gets so popular, or whatever, that now it becomes an international type of thing. You've got, I'm sure, all sorts of laws regarding intellectual property and patents and so on internationally. And how do you get protection internationally for a product? Devin Miller  45:32 File it in each country separately. So, you know, there are people, and I understand the inclinations, hey, I want to get a worldwide or global patent that covers everything in every country. The short answer is, you can't. I mean, technically, you could, if you file a patent into every country separately, nobody, including when I used to work or do work for companies including Intel and Amazon and Red Hat and Ford. They don't have patents in every single country throughout the world because they just don't have enough marketplace. You know, you go to a very small, let's say, South African country that you know, where they just don't sell their product enough in it, it just doesn't make the sense, or the courts or the systems or the patent office isn't well enough to find, or it's not enforceable enough that it just doesn't capture that value. And so there isn't a ability to have a global, worldwide patent, and it really is one where you have to file into each country separately. They each have their own somewhat similar criteria, still a different, somewhat similar process, but they each have their own criteria in their process that has to go through examination. So when you're looking at you know when you want to go for whether it's in the US or any other country, when you're deciding where you want to file it, it's really a matter of what marketplaces you're going to be selling the product into. So if you look at it and you know, I have as an example, some clients that 95% of their marketplace is all in the US, that's where they anticipate, that's probably where they're going to sell it. Well, yes, you could go and find, if you have 2% of your marketplace in Japan, you could go file a patent and get it into Japan, but you have such a small amount of your marketplace that's probably there that it doesn't make sense. And vice versa will have as an example. And a lot of times in the medical devices, they'll a lot of times file both in the EU as well as in the US, because those are two of the predominant medical device and are places where a lot of innovation is going on, where there's a lot of focus on utilization, development, medical devices, and there's just a lot of that demand. And so you're really going to look at it is which, where's your marketplace. The other times are the people, a lot of times, they'll get tripped up on so they'll say, Well, I probably need to file into China, right? And I said, Well, maybe because the inclination is, well, everybody just goes to China. They'll knock off the product. And so I want to have a patent in China so that I can, you know, fight against the knockoffs. And that isn't while I again, understand why they would ask that question. It wouldn't be the right way to convey it. Because if you if all it is is they you have no real, you know, no desire, no plan, to go into China. You're not going to sell it. You're not going to build a business there. If they're knocking it off and just just doing it in China, so to speak, then they're not. There isn't going to be a need to file a patent in China, because you don't have any marketplace in there. There's nothing really to protect. And if somebody makes it in China as a just picking on China, making as an example, and imports it into the US, you can still enforce your patent or otherwise do or utilize it to stop people from importing knock off because it's in the US, because they're, yeah, exactly, they're selling it, importing it, or otherwise doing activities in the US. So it's really a matter of where your marketplace is, not where you think that somebody might knock it off. Or, Hey, I'm gonna get a try and get a global patent, even though my marketplace is really in one or two spots. Michael Hingson  48:38 What about products like, say, the iPhone, which are commonly used all over. Devin Miller  48:44 Yeah, they're going to do, they'll do a lot of countries. They still Michael Hingson  48:47 won't do. They'll still do kind of country by country. Devin Miller  48:50 Yeah, they'll now, they'll do a lot of countries. Don't get me wrong, a lot of right. Phones are sold throughout the world, but they'll still look at it as to where it is, and they still have, you know, issues with them. So one of the interesting tidbits as an example, so going back and rewinding your time, taking apple as an example. You know, they came out with, originally, the iPod, then they had iPhone, and then they had the iPad. Now the question is, when they originally came out with their watch, what did they call it? 49:17 Apple Watch? Apple Watch. Now, why Devin Miller  49:20 didn't they call the I wash, which is what it made sense. It goes right along with the iPhone, the iPad, the iPhone, you know, the all of those iPod on that. And it was because somebody had already got a trademark in China that was for a different company, unrelated to the apple that had it for the iWatch. And so when Apple tried to go into the country, they tried to negotiate. They tried to bully. They weren't able to successfully get the rights or to be able to use I wash within China. China was a big enough market, and so they had and rather than try and split it and call it the I wash everywhere but China and trying to have the Apple Watch in China, they opted to call it the Apple Watch. Now I think they might. Of eventually resolve that, and I think it's now can be referred to as the I watch, I'm not sure, but for, at least for a long period of time, they couldn't. They called it the Apple Watch when they released it, for that reason. So even if you have, you know, a big company and one of the biggest ones in the world, you still have to play by the same rules. And why, you can try and leverage your your size and your wealth and that to get your way, there's still those, there's still those hindrances. So that's kind of maybe a side, a side note, but it's kind of one that's interesting. Michael Hingson  50:30 So that's the trademark of how you name it. But how about the technology itself? When the Apple Watch was created, I'm assuming that they were able to patent that. Devin Miller  50:39 Yeah, they will have, I'm sure they probably have anywhere from 30 to 100 to 200 I mean, they'll have a significant amount of patents, even it's just within the Apple Watch, everything from the screen, the display, how it's waterproof, how it does communications, how does the battery management, how does the touch, how does the interface, all of those are going to be different aspects that they continue to, you know, did it originally in the original Apple Watch, and are always iterating and changing as they continue to improve the technology. So generally, you know that, I'm sure that you will start out with as a business of protecting you're getting a foundational patent where you kind of protect the initial invention, but if it's successful and you're building it out, you're going to continue to file a number of patents to capture those ongoing innovations, and then you're going to file it into all of the countries where you have a reasonable market size that makes it worthwhile to make the investment. Michael Hingson  51:32 So if you have a new company and they've got a name and all that, what should new businesses do in terms of looking and performing a comprehensive search for of trademarks and so on to make sure they are doing the right thing. Devin Miller  51:49 Yeah, a couple of things. I mean, it wanted, if you're it depends on the size of company, your budget, there's always the overlay of, you know, you can want to do everything in the world, and if you don't have the budget, then you have to figure out what goes in your budget. But if I'll take it from kind of a startup or a small business perspective, you know, you first thing you should do is just as stupid and as easy as it sounds, you should go do a Google search. Or, now that you have chat GPT, go do a chat BT search and a Google search. But, you know, because it's interesting as it sounds, or, you know, is you think that, oh, that's, you know, kind of give me or an automatic I'll have still even till today, people come into my office. They'll say, Hey, I've got this great idea, this great invention, and a Lacher getting a patent on it, and they'll start to walk me through it. I'm like, you know, I could have sworn I've seen that before. I've seen something very similar. We'll sit down at my desk, take two minutes, do a Google search, and say, so is this a product that you're thinking of? Oh, yeah, that's exactly it. Okay. Well, you can't really get a patent on something that's already been invented and out there, and so, you know, do a little bit of research yourself. Now there is a double edged sword, because you can do research and sometimes you'll have one or two things happen. You'll not having the experience and background, not entirely knowing what you're doing. You'll do research, and you'll either one say, Hey, I've done a whole bunch of research. I can't really find anything that's similar. When, in fact, there's a lot of similar things out there. There's a patent, and people will say, yeah, it's the same, it's the same invention, but my purpose is a little bit different. Well, you can't if it's the exact same or invention. Whether or not you say your purpose is different, doesn't get around their patent and same thing on a trademark. Yeah, their brand's pretty much 53:20 identical, but they're Devin Miller  53:21 doing legal services and I'm doing legal tools, and so it's different, and it's, again, it's one where there's there they have a false sense of security because they rationalize in their head why it's different, or vice versa. You also get people that will say, Hey, this is even though it's significantly different, it's the same purpose. And so while, while they really could go do the product, while they could get a patent or a trademark, because they think that it's just overall kind of the same concept, then they talk themselves out of it when they don't need to. So I would say, start out doing some of that initial research. I would do it if I was in their shoes, but temper it with, you know, do it as an initial review. If there's something that's identical or the same that's out there, then it gives you an idea. Probably, you know, you're not going to be able to add a minimum, get or patent their intellectual property protection, and you may infringe on someone else's but if you you know, if there's, there's some differences, or have to do that initial research, that's probably the time, if you're serious about, you know, investing or getting business up and going, you've probably engaged an attorney to do a more formal search, where they have the experience in the background and ability to better give a better understanding or determination as to whether or not something presents an issue. Michael Hingson  54:32 Yeah, well, that's understandable. If I've developed something and I have a patent for it, then I suddenly discovered that people are selling knockoffs or other similar devices on places like Amazon and so on. What do you do about that? Because I'm sure there must be a bunch of that that that does go on today. Devin Miller  54:53 Yeah, yes, it does. I mean, I wouldn't say it's not as probably as prevalent as some people think. In other words, not every single. Product, right, being knocked off. Not everything is copied. Sometimes it's because, you know, either I don't have the ability, I don't have the investment, I don't have the, you know, it's not as big enough marketplace, I don't have the manufacturing, I don't have the connections, or it is simply, am respectful, and I'm not going to go do a discord because I'm not going to try and rip off, you know, what I think is someone else's idea. So it doesn't happen that as frequently as I think sometimes people think it does, but it certainly does occur. You know, there's a competitive marketplace, there's a profit incentive, and if there's a good product that's out there that people think they can do something with, and there's a motivation to do it, either because people are unaware that it's an issue, or that they they're unaware that they can't copy it or is protected. And so if you get into that, you know, there's a few potentially different recourses. One is, you know, a lot of times you'll start out with the cease and desist.

Angela joins me for updates including a new AZ GOP chair, a state budget that continues to grow and AZ AG growing controversy for comments on ICE. We also touch on the EU's delusions of super power status, the US exiting the WHO, Omars wealth and more. Plus, the next controversy in Flagstaff, a Mormon temple. 

On today's episode, we welcome two very special guests! Leopoldo Larcher and Emily Guincho are a father–daughter duo here to share their Italian Mormon story as the first family to join the LDS Church in Italy.Leopoldo details his experience of quickly being placed into leadership roles and bearing the responsibility of helping establish the structure of the Church in Italy. Over the years, he worked with many LDS Church leaders, from Ezra Taft Benson to Spencer W. Kimball.His daughter, Emily, joins us to share her own perspective on what it was like for her and her siblings to grow up in an environment dominated by church service and the immense pressure to represent Mormonism in their community.Together, Emily and Leopoldo reflect on what it meant to be Mormon pioneers in Italy, how their dedicated service affected their family life, and where they stand with the Church today. They also discuss what the LDS community looks like in Italy within a predominantly Catholic culture, and the challenges the Church faces as it attempts to establish a uniquely American institution in Europe.___________________YouTubeAt Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  Our overall mission is to: 1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

This is it! The final episode! Words cannot express how happy Kolby and RFM are to finally be finishing their two-man demolition of this piece of apologetic dreck presented to the world by Austin Fife as “The Light and Truth Letter.” But after 58-hours of commentary from these two post-Mormon attorneys, spanning over an entire… Read More »The End of the Light On Truth Letter! RFM: 437

Keith challenges the usual "overpopulated vs. underpopulated" debate and shows why that's the wrong way to think about demographics—especially if you're a real estate investor. Listeners will hear about surprising global population comparisons that flip common assumptions.  Why raw population numbers don't actually explain housing shortages or rent strength. How household formation, aging, and migration really drive demand for rentals. Which kinds of markets tend to see persistent housing pressure—and why the US has a long‑term demographic edge. You'll come away seeing population headlines very differently, and with a clearer lens for spotting where future housing demand is most likely to show up. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/590 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold  0:01   Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, is the world overpopulated or underpopulated? Also is the United States over or underpopulated? These are not just rhetorical questions, because I'm going to answer them both. Just one of Africa's 54 nations has more births than all of Europe and Russia combined. One US state has seen their population decline for decades. This is all central to housing demand today. On get rich education   Keith Weinhold  0:36   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Speaker 1  1:21   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:31   Welcome to GRE from Norfolk Virginia to Norfolk, Nebraska and across 188 nations worldwide, you are inside. Get rich education. I am the GRE founder, Best Selling Author, longtime real estate investor. You can see my written work in Forbes and the USA Today, but I'm best known as the host of this incomprehensibly slack John operation that you're listening to right now. My name is Keith Weinhold. You probably know that already, one reason that we're talking about underpopulated versus overpopulated today is that also one of my degrees is in geography and demography, essentially, is human geography, and that's why this topic is in my wheelhouse. It's just a humble bachelor's degree, by the way, if a population is not staying stable or growing, then demand for housing just must atrophy away. That's what people think, but that is not true. That's oversimplified. In some cases. It might even be totally false. You're going to see why. Now, Earth's population is at an all time high of about 8.2 billion people, and it keeps growing, and it's going to continue to keep growing, but the rate of growth is slowing now. Where could all of the people on earth fit? This is just a bit of a ridiculous abstraction in a sense, but I think it helps you visualize things. Just take this scenario, if all the humans were packed together tightly, but in a somewhat realistic way, in a standing room only way, if every person on earth stood shoulder to shoulder, that would allow about 2.7 square feet per person, they would sort of be packed like a subway car. Well, they could fit in a square, about 27 kilometers on one side, about 17 miles on each side of that square. Now, what does that mean in real places that is smaller than New York City, about half the size of Los Angeles County and roughly the footprint of Lake Tahoe? So yes, every human alive today could physically fit inside one midsize us metro area. This alone tells you something important. The world's problem is certainly not a lack of space. Rather, it's where people live and not how many there are. So that was all of Earth's inhabitants. Now, where could all Americans fit us residents using the same shoulder to shoulder assumption, and the US population by mid year this year is supposed to be about 350,000,00349 that's a square about five and a half kilometers, or 3.4 miles on each side. And some real world comparisons there are. That's about half of Manhattan, smaller than San Francisco and roughly the size of Disney World, so every American could fit into a single small city footprint. And if you're beginning to form an early clue that we are not overpopulated globally, yes, that's the sense that you Should be getting.     Keith Weinhold  5:01   now, if you're in Bangladesh, it feels overpopulated there. They've got 175 million people, and that nation is only the size of Iowa. In area, Bangladesh is low lying and typhoon prone. They get a lot of flooding, which complicates their already bad sanitation problems and a dense population like that, and that creates waterborne diseases, and it's really more of an infrastructure problem in a place like Bangladesh than it is a population problem. Then Oppositely, you've got Australia as much land as the 48 contiguous states, yet just 27 million people in Australia, and only 1/400 as many people as Bangladesh in density. Now we talk about differential population. About 80% of Americans live in the eastern half of the US. But yet, the East is not overpopulated because we have sufficient infrastructure, and I've got some more mind blowing population stats for you later, both world and us. Now, as far as is the world overpopulated or underpopulated, which is our central question, depending on who you ask and where they live, you're going to hear completely different answers. Some people are convinced that the planet is bursting at the seams. Others warn that we're headed for a population collapse. But here's the problem, that question overpopulated or underpopulated, it's the wrong question. It's the wrong framing, especially if you're into real estate, because housing demand doesn't respond to total headcount or global averages or scary demographic headlines. Housing demand responds to where people live, how old they are, and how they form households. And once you understand this, a lot of things suddenly begin to make sense, like why housing shortages persist, why rents stay high, even when affordability feels stretched, why some states struggle while others boom, and why population headlines often mislead investors.   Keith Weinhold  7:20   So today I want to reframe how you think about population and connect it directly to housing demand, both globally and right here in the United States. And let's start with the US, because that's probably where you invest.    Keith Weinhold  7:33   Here's a simple fact that should confuse people, but usually doesn't, the United States has below replacement fertility. I'll talk about fertility rates a little later. They're similar to birth rates, meaning that Americans are not having enough children to replace the population naturally and without immigration, the US population would eventually shrink, and yet in the US, we have a housing shortage, rising rents, tight vacancy and a lot of metros and persistent demand for rental housing, which could all seem contradictory. Now, if population alone determine housing demand, well, then the US really shouldn't have any housing shortage at all, but it does so clearly, population alone is not the main driver, and really that contradiction is like your first clue that most demographic conversations are just missing the point. Aging does not reduce housing demand. The way that people think a misconception really is that an aging population automatically reduces housing demand. It does not, in fact, just the opposite. If a population is too young, well, that tends to kill housing demand, and that's because five year old kids and 10 year old kids do not form their own household. Instead, what an aging population often does is change the type of housing that's demanded, like seniors aging in place, some of them downsizing. Seniors living alone. Sometimes after a spouse passes away, others relocating closer to health care or to family. So aging can increase unit demand even if population growth slows. So already, we've broken two myths here. Slower population doesn't mean weaker housing demand, and aging doesn't mean fewer housing units are needed. Now let's explain why. Really, the core idea that unlocks everything is that people don't live inside, what are called Population units. They live in households. You are one person. That does not mean that your dwelling is then one population unit. That's not how that works. You are part of a household, whether that's a house a Household of one person or five or 11 people, housing demand is driven by the number of households, the type of households and where those households are forming, not by raw population totals. So the same population can have wildly different demand. Just think about how five people living together in one home, that's one housing unit, those same five people living separately, that is five housing units, same population, five times the housing demand. And this is why population statistics alone are almost useless for real estate investors, you need to know how people are living, not just how many there are. The biggest surge in housing demand happens when people leave their parents' homes or when they finish school or when they start working, or you got big surges in housing demand when people marry or when they separate or divorce. So in other words, adults create housing demand and children don't. And this is why a country with a youngish, working age population, oh, then they can have exploding housing demand. A country with high birth rates, but low household formation can have overcrowding without profitable housing growth. So it's not about babies, it's about independent adults, and what quietly boosts housing demand, then is housing fragmentation. Yeah, fragmentation. That's a trend that really doesn't get enough attention, and that is the trend, households are fragmenting, meaning more single adults later marriage, like I was talking about in a previous episode. Recently, higher divorce rates, more people living alone and older adults living independently, longer. Each one of those trends increases housing demand without adding any population whatsoever. When two people split up, they often need two housing units instead of one, and if you've got one adult living alone, that is full unit demand right there. So that's why housing demand can rise even when population growth slows or stalls for housing demand. What matters more than births is migration. And another key distinction is that, yes, births matter, but they're on somewhat of this 20 year delay and migration matters immediately, right now. So see, when a working age adult moves, they need housing right away. They typically rent first. They cluster near jobs, and they don't bring housing supply along with them. They've got to get it from someone else. Hopefully you in your rental unit.    Keith Weinhold  12:57   This is why migration is such a powerful force in rental markets, and you see me talk about migration on the show, and you see me send you migration maps in our newsletter. It's also why housing pressure shows up unevenly. It gets concentrated around opportunity. If you want to know the future, look at renters. Renters are the leading indicator, not homeowners and not birth rates. See renters create housing demand faster than homeowners, because renters form households earlier. They can do it quickly because they don't need down payments. Renters move more frequently and immigration overwhelmingly starts in rentals, fresh immigrants rarely become homeowners, so even when mortgage rates rise or home purchases slow or affordability headlines get scary, rental demand can stay strong. It's not a mystery, it's demographics. So births surely matter, but only over the long term. It's like how I've shared with you in a previous episode that the US had a lot of births between 1990 and 2010 those two decades, a surge of births more than 4 million every single one of those years during those two decades, with that peak birth year at 2007 but see a bunch of babies being born in 2007 Well, that didn't make housing demand surge, since infants don't buy homes. But if you add, say, 20 years to 2007 when those people start renting, oh, well, that rental demand peaks in 2027 or maybe a little after that, and since the first time, homebuyer age is now 40. If that stays constant, well, then native born homebuyer demand won't peak until 2047 so when it comes to housing demand, the important thing to remember is migration has an immediate effect and births have a delayed effect.    Keith Weinhold  15:02   and I'm going to talk more about other nations shortly, but the US has two major migration forces working simultaneously, domestic and international migration. I mean, Americans move a lot, although not as much as they used to, and people move for jobs, for taxes, for weather, for cost of living and for lifestyle. So this creates state level winners and losers, and Metro level housing pressure and rent growth in those destination markets and national population averages totally hide this. So that's domestic migration. And then on the international migration. The US has a long history, hundreds of years now on, just continually attracting working age adults from around the world. This matters immensely, because they arrive ready to work, and they form households quickly. They overwhelmingly rent first. They concentrate in metros, and this props up rental demand before it ever shows up in home prices. And this is why investors often feel the rent pressure first those rising rents.    Keith Weinhold  16:17   I've got more straight ahead, including Nigeria versus Europe, and what about the overpopulation straining the environment? If you like, episodes that explain why housing behaves the way it does, rather than just reacting to the headlines. You'll want to be on my free weekly newsletter. I break down demographics, housing, demand, inflation, investor trends and real estate strategy in plain English, often complemented with maps. You can join free at greletter.com that's gre letter.com   Keith Weinhold  16:53   mid south homebuyers with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your return on investment as their North Star. It's no wonder smart investors line up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone headquartered in Memphis, with their globally attractive cash flows, mid south has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and 4000 houses renovated. There is zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate with an industry leading three and a half year average renter term. Every home they offer you will have brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter in an astounding price range, 100 to 150k GET TO KNOW mid south enjoy cash flow from day one at mid southhomebuyers.com that's midsouthhomebuyers.com   Keith Weinhold  17:54   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989Yep. Text their freedom coach directly again. 1937795, 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  19:05   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Chris Martenson  19:37   this is peak prosperity. Is Chris Martinson. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  19:53   Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and this is episode 590 yes, we're in my Geography wheelhouse today, as I'm talking human geography and demographics with how it relates to housing, while answering our central question today is the world and the US overpopulated or underpopulated? And now that we understand some mechanics here, let's go global. Here's one of the most mind bending stats in all of demographics. Are you ready for this? When you hear this, it's going to have you hitting up chat, GPT, looking it up. It's going to be so astonishing. So jaw dropping. Every year, Nigeria has more births than all of Europe plus all of Russia combined. Would you talk about Willis?   Keith Weinhold  20:47   Yeah, yes, you heard that, right? Willis, that's what I'm talking about. Willis. The source of that data is, in fact, from the United Nations. Yes, Nigeria has seven and a half million births every year. Compare that to all of Europe plus Russia combined, they only have about 6.3 million births per year. So you're telling me that today, just one West African nation, and there are 54 nations in Africa. Just one West African nation produces more babies than the entire continent of Europe, with all of its nations plus all of Russia, the largest world nation by area. Yes, that is correct. One country in Africa produces more babies every year than France, Germany, Italy, Spain, the UK, all of Europe, including all the Eastern European nations, and all of Russia combined. This is a demographic reality, and now you probably already know that less developed nations, like Nigeria have higher birth rates than wealthier, more developed ones like France or Switzerland. I mean, that's almost common knowledge, but something that people think about less is that poorer nations also have a larger household size, which sort of makes sense when you think about it. In fact, Nigeria has five persons per household. Spain has two and a half, and the US also has that same level two and a half. That one difference alone explains why population growth and housing demand are completely different stories now, the US had 3.3 people per household in 1950 and it's down to that two and a half today. That means that even if the population stayed the same, the housing demand would rise. And this is evidence of what I talked about before the break, that households are fragmenting within the US. You can probably guess which state has the largest household size due to their Mormon population. It's Utah at 3.1 the smallest is Maine at 2.3 they have an older population. In fact, Maine has America's oldest population. And as you can infer with what you've learned now, the fact that they have just 2.3 people per household means that if their populations were the same. Maine would need more housing units than Utah. By the way, if you're listening closely at times, I have referred to the United States as simply America. Yes, I am American. You are going to run into some people out there that don't like it. When US residents call themselves Americans, they say something like, Hey, you need a geography lesson. America runs from Nunavut all the way down to Argentina. Here's what to tell them. No, look, there are about 200 world nations. There is only one that has the word America in it, that is the United States of America that usually makes them lighten up. That is why I am an American, not a Peruvian or Bolivian, and there's no xenophobic connotation whatsoever. There are more productive things to think about moving on. Why births matter is because births today become future workers, renters, consumers and even migrants. But not evenly. Young populations move toward a few things. They're attracted to capital. They move towards stability. They're attracted to opportunity, and young populations move toward infrastructure. That's not ideology, that's the gravity and the US remains one of the strongest gravity wells on Earth, a big magnet, a big attractant. Now it's sort of interesting. I know a few a People that believe that the world is indeed overpopulated, they often tend to be environmental enthusiasts, and the environment is a concern, for sure, but how big of a concern is it? That's the debatable part. And you know, it's funny, I've run into the same people that think that the world is overpopulated, they seem to lament at school closures. You see more school closures because just there weren't as many children that were born after the global financial crisis. And these people that are afraid we have an overpopulation problem call school closures a sad phenomenon. They think it's sad. Well, if you want a shrinking population, then you're going to see a lot more than just schools close so many with environmental concerns, though. The thing is, is that they seem to discount the fact that humans innovate. More than 200 years ago, Thomas Malthus, he famously failed. He wrote a book, thinking that the global population would exceed what he called his carrying capacity, meaning that we wouldn't be able to feed everybody. He posited that, look, this is a problem. Populations grow exponentially, but food production only grows linearly. But he was wrong, because, due to agricultural innovation, we have got too many calories in most places. Few people thought this many humans could live in the United States, Sonoran and Mojave deserts, that's Phoenix in Las Vegas, respectively. But our ability to recycle and purify water allows millions of people to live there. So my point about running out of resources is that history shows us that humans are a resource ourselves, and we keep finding ways to innovate, or keep finding ways to actually not need that rare earth element or whatever it is now, if the earth warms too much from human related activity, can we cool it off again? And how much of a problem is this? I am not sure, and that goes beyond the scope of our show. But the broader point here is that history shows us that humans keep figuring things out, and that is somewhat of an answer to those questions. The world is not overpopulated, it is unevenly populated. Some regions are young, others are growing, others are capital constrained, and then other regions are aging, shrinking and capital rich. And that very imbalance right there is what fuels migration and fuels labor flows and fuels housing demand in destination countries and the US benefits from this imbalance. Unlike almost anywhere else in the world, it's a demographic magnet. Yes, you do have some smaller ones out there, like Dubai, for example.    Keith Weinhold  28:04   But why? Why do we keep attracting immigrants? Well, we've got strong labor markets, capital availability, property rights, economic mobility, and US has existing housing stock. Countries today don't just compete for capital, they're competing for people. In the US keeps attracting working age adults, and that is exactly the demographic that creates housing demand, and this is why long term housing demand in the US is more resilient than a lot of people think. In fact, the US population of about 350 million. This year, it's projected to peak at about 370 million, near 2080 and of course, the big factor that makes that pivot is that level of immigration. So that's why the population projections vary now. The last presidential administration allowed for a lot of immigrants. The current one few immigrants, and the next one, nobody knows. You've got a group called the falconist party that calls for increased legal immigration into the US. Yeah, they want to allow more migrants into the country, but yet they want to enforce illegal immigration. That sounds just like it's spelled, F, A, L, C, O, N, i, s, t, the falconist Party, but the us's magnetic effect to keep driving population growth through immigration is key, because you might already know that 2.1 is the magic number you need a fertility rate of at least 2.1 to maintain a population fertility rate that is the average number of children that a woman is expected to have over her lifetime. And be sure you don't confuse these numbers with the earlier numbers of people per. Per household, like I discussed earlier, although higher fertility rates are usually going to lead to more people per household, India's fertility rate is already down to 2.0 Yes, it is the most populated nation in the world, but since women, on average, only have two children, India is already below replacement fertility. The US and Australia are each at 1.6 Japan is just 1.2 China's is down to 1.0 South Korea's is at an incredibly low seven tenths of one, so 0.7 in South Korea, and then Nigeria's is still more than four. So among all those that I mentioned, only Nigeria is above the replacement rate of 2.1 and most of the nations above that rate are in Africa. Israel is a big outlier at 2.9 you've got others in the Middle East and South Asia that are above replacement rate as well. And when I say things like it's still up there, that whole still thing refers to the fact that there is this tendency worldwide for society to urbanize and have fewer children. For those fertility rates to keep falling. And that's why the future population growth is about which nations attract immigrants, and that is the US. Is huge advantage. Now there's a great way to look at where future births are going to come from. A way to do this is consider your chance of being born on each continent in the year 2100 This is interesting. In the year 2100 a person has a 48% chance of being born in Africa, 38% in South Asia, in the Middle East, 5% South America, 5% in Europe or Russia, 4% in North America, and less than 1% in Australia. Those are the chances of you being born on each of those continents in the year 2100 and that sourced by the UN.   Keith Weinhold  32:09   the world population is, as I said earlier, about 8.2 billion, and it's actually expected to peak around the same time that the US population is in the 2080s and that'll be near 10 point 3 billion. All right, so both the world and the US population should rise for another 50 to 60 years. Let's talk about population winners and losers inside the US. I mean, this is where population conversations really become useful for investors, because population doesn't matter nationally that much. It really matters locally, unevenly and sometimes it almost feels unfairly. So let me give you some perspective shifting stats. I think I shared with you when I discussed new New York City Mayor Zoran Manami here on the show a month or two ago, that the New York City Metro Area has over 20 million people, nearly double the combined population of Arizona and Nevada together, yes, just one metro area, the same as Two entire sparsely populated states. So when someone says people are leaving New York I mean that tells you almost nothing, unless you know where they're going. How many are still arriving in New York City to replace those leaving, and how many households are still forming inside that Metro? The household formation so scale matters, however, net, people are not leaving New York. New York City recently had more in migration than any other US Metro. Some states are practically empty. Alaska or take Wyoming. Wyoming has fewer than 600,000 people in the entire state. That's fewer people than a lot of single US cities. That's only about six people per square mile. In Wyoming, that's about the population of one midsize Metro suburb. Now, when someone says the US has plenty of land in a lot of cases, they're right. I mean, just look out the window when you fly over Wyoming or the Dakotas. But people don't really live where land is cheap. They actually don't want to. Most of the time. They live where jobs, incomes and their networks already exist. You know, the wealthy guy that retires to Wyoming and it has a 200 acre ranch is an outlier. There's a reason he can sprawl out and make it 200 acres. There's virtually nobody there. Let's understand too that population loss, that doesn't mean that demand is gone, but it does change the rules, especially when you think about a place like West Virginia. They have lost population in most decades since the 1950s and incredibly, their population is lower today than it was in 1930 we're talking about West Virginia statewide. They have an aging population. West Virginia has an outmigration of young adults. So this doesn't mean that no real estate works in West Virginia, but it means that appreciation stories are fragile. Income matters more than equity. Growth and demographics are a headwind, not a tailwind. That's a very different investment posture than where you usually want to be. It's important to understand that a handful of metros, just a handful, are absorbing massive national growth. And here's something that a lot of investors underestimate. About half of all US, population growth flows into fewer than 15 metro areas, and it's not just New York City, Houston, Miami, but smaller places like Jacksonville, Austin and Raleigh, and that really helps pump their real estate market. So that means demand concentrates, housing pressure intensifies, and rent growth becomes pretty sticky, unless you wildly overbuild for a short period of time like Austin did, and this is why some metros just feel perpetually tight over the long term, and others feel permanently sluggish. Population does not spread evenly. It piles up. In fact, Texas is a great case in point here. Understand that Texas is adding people faster than some entire nations do. Texas alone adds hundreds of 1000s of residents per year in strong cycles. Some years, they do add more people than entire small countries, more than several Midwest states combined. And of course, they don't spread evenly across Texas. They cluster in DFW, Houston, Austin and San Antonio, so pretty much the Texas triangle, and that clustering fact is everything for housing demand, yet at the same time, there are fully 75 Texas counties that are losing population, typically out in West Texas. Then there's Florida. Florida isn't just growing. It's replacing people. Florida's growth. It's not just net positive, it's replacement migration, and it's across all different types and ages. You've got retirees arriving, you've got young workers arriving, you've got young households forming, and you've got seniors aging in place. So this way, among a whole spectrum of ages, you've got demand for rentals, workforce housing, age specific, housing and multifamily all in Florida, and this is why Florida housing demand over the long term is not going to cool off the way that a few skeptics expect. Now, of course, some areas did temporarily overbuild in Florida in the years following the pandemic. Yes, that's led to some temporary Florida home price attrition, but that is going to be absorbed. California did not empty out. It reshuffled now. There were some recent years where California lost net population, but here's what that hides. Some metros lost residents. Others stayed flat. You had some income brackets that left California and others arrived. In fact, California has slight population growth today overall, so housing demand definitely did not vanish. It shifted within the state and then outward to nearby states, and that's how Arizona, Nevada and Texas benefited. But overall, California's population count, really, it's just pretty steady, not declining.   Keith Weinhold  39:05   population density. It's that density that predicts rent pressure better than growth rates. Do something really important for real estate investors. Dense metros absorb shocks better. They have less elastic housing supply, and they see faster rent rebounds. Sparse areas have cheaper land and easier supply expansion and weaker rent resilience. So that's why rents snap back faster in dense metros, and oversupply hurts more in spread out to regions. Density matters more than raw growth does. Shrinking states can still have tight housing I mean, some states lose population overall, but yet they still have housing shortages in certain metros, and you'll have tight rental markets near job centers, and you've got strong demand In limited sub markets, even if the state is shrinking. And I think you know this is why the slower growing Northeast and Midwest, they've had the highest home price appreciation in the past two years. There's not enough building there. If your population falls 1% but the available housing falls 2% well, you can totally get into a housing shortage situation, and that bids up real estate prices. And when people look at population charts on the state level, a lot of times, they still get misled. When you buy an investment property, you don't buy a state, you buy a specific market within it, so the United States is not full it is lopsided. The US is not overpopulated. It is heavily clustered. It's unevenly dense, and it's really driven by migration. And perhaps a better way to say it is that the US population is really opportunity concentrated housing demand follows jobs, networks, wages and migration flows. It sure does not follow empty land. And really the investor takeaway is, is that when you hear population stats, don't put too much weight on the question, is the population rising or falling? Although that's something you certainly want to know. Some better questions to ask are, where are households forming? Where are adults moving? Where is supply constrained? And where does income support, rent like those are, what four big questions there, because population alone does not create housing demand. It's households under constraint that do so. Our big arching overall question is the world overpopulated or underpopulated? The answer is neither. The world is unevenly populated. It's unevenly aged, and it's unevenly governed. And for real estate investors, the lesson is simple. You don't invest in population counts, you invest in household formation, age structure, migration and supply constraints. Really, that's a big learning summary for you, that's why housing demand can stay strong even when population growth slows. And once you understand that demographic headlines that seem scary aren't as scary, and they start to be more useful. Why I've wanted to do this overpopulated versus underpopulated episode for you for years. I've really thought about it for years. I really hope that you got something useful out of it. Let's be mindful of the context too. When it comes to the classic Adam Smith economics of supply demand, I've only discussed one side today, largely just the demand side and not the supply side so much that would involve a discussion about building and some more things that supply side. Now that I've helped you ask a better question about population and the future of housing demand, you might wonder where you can get better answers. Well, like I mentioned earlier, I provide a lot of that and help you make sense of it, both right here on this show and with my newsletter, geography is something that's more conducive and meaningful to you visually, that's often done with a map, and that's why my letter at greletter.com will help you more if you enjoy learning through maps, just like we've done every year since 2014 I've got 52 great episodes coming to you this year. If you haven't consider subscribing to the show until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 2  43:57   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice, please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively you   Keith Weinhold  44:25   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com

How does one go about talking to someone with another viewpoint on faith? Carder talks about his experience talking with missionaries from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints that led to his new podcast.

This is it! The final episode! Words cannot express how happy Kolby and RFM are to finally be finishing their two-man demolition of this piece of apologetic dreck presented to the world by Austin Fife as “The Light and Truth Letter.” But after 58-hours of commentary from these two post-Mormon attorneys, spanning over an entire… Read More »The End of the Light On Truth Letter! RFM: 437 The post The End of the Light On Truth Letter! RFM: 437 appeared first on Mormon Discussions Podcasts - Full Lineup.

MRM's Bill McKeever and Eric Johnson interview Rob Bowman on some new articles published on the IRR website, including this on contradictions on the Book of Mormon. Check out the website at irr.org.

The largest group of Mormon polygamists don’t belong to a group! I’m talking to the Ericksons: Joshua, Charlotte, & Melissa who purchased the Sister Wives home from Kody Brown and his 4 wives from the TLC channel. We’ll talk about the resources independent Mormon fundamentalists can participate in, how they got their authority to do polygamy, and talk about priesthood in their family. Check out our conversation… https://youtu.be/7itxEX5H8nk Don’t miss our interviews with Mormon polygamists: https://gospeltangents.com/denominations/fundamentalim/ I sat down with the Erickson family—Joshua, Melissa, and Charlotte—independent Mormon fundamentalists who purchased the Lehi, Utah home formerly owned by Kody Brown of TLC’s Sister Wives. The Ericksons discuss their journey from mainstream LDS  Church membership to independent polygamy, their blog Speaking of Polygamy, and their efforts to restore biblical feasts and practices. 00:00 – Welcome to the Sister Wives Brown Hotel: The Ericksons, who now live in the home designed for polygamy discuss the unique architecture, which includes connected apartments that facilitate communal living. 08:00 – Excommunication & New Fellowship: The family shares their transition out of the LDS Church. While they were excommunicated, they describe the experience as cordial and devoid of hard feelings. They soon found the Zarahemla Foundation, a non-denominational fellowship for restoration believers. 14:00 – Defining Independent Fundamentalism: Joshua explains that fundamentalism isn’t just about polygamy; it is about preserving original restoration principles. They discuss the misconception that leaving the church means losing opportunities to serve, arguing they have found even more ways to be “anxiously engaged”. 18:00 – Restoring the Feasts: We did a deep dive into why the Ericksons celebrate ancient Israelite holidays like Passover, the Feast of Tabernacles, and Yom Kippur. Joshua provides scriptural justification from Zechariah 14 and the JST of Luke 22, arguing these feasts are for all of Israel, not just the Jews. 26:00 – Wine Making & The Word of Wisdom: The family discusses their wine-making classes. They adhere to D&C 89 and Section 27, believing wine should be “of your own make” for sacraments, rather than water. 32:00 – Mormon Legacy Ministries: Introduction to a broad coalition of independent fundamentalists who provide a “soft landing” and fellowship for those questioning mainstream changes. 36:00 – The Temple in Missouri: The Ericksons recount their participation in the independent temple built near Humansville, Missouri, describing the celestial room’s fiber-optic star field and the dedication they felt among independent groups.

James Perry is a historian and author of 'Brick by Brick: Early Latter-day Saint Meeting Places in the British Isles.' I wanted to speak to James about the lesser known stories of British 'Church-building missionaries' who built the Latter-day Saint chapels that we still worship in today.Some highlights from this episode include James's favourite journal entry from a Church-building missionary, what the safety conditions were like, and why the Church donated £6 million to this chapel-building effort.--You can find more of James's work at the following link:- https://www.deseretbook.com/product/6091205.htmlFollow For All The Saints on social media for updates and inspiring content:www.instagram.com/forallthesaintspodhttps://www.facebook.com/forallthesaintspod/For All The Saints episodes are released every Monday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts and more:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVDUQg_qZIU&list=UULFFf7vzrJ2LNWmp1Kl-c6K9Qhttps://open.spotify.com/show/3j64txm9qbGVVZOM48P4HS?si=bb31d048e05141f2https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/for-all-the-saints/id1703815271If you have feedback or any suggestions for topics or guests, connect with Ben & Sean via hello@forallthesaints.org or DM on InstagramConversations to Refresh Your Faith.For All The Saints podcast was established in 2023 by Ben Hancock to express his passion and desire for more dialogue around faith, religious belief, and believers' perspectives on the topics of our day. Tune into For All The Saints every Monday on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and more.Follow For All The Saints on social media for daily inspiration.

Utah's Blackhawk War...not the Illin' Illinoisian one. The Mormons of the 1860's treated the Native Population just a bit different. Not much better...not much worse.#howthewestwasfucked#htwwf#americanhistory#oldwest#wildwes#utahhistory#mormonhistory

I consumed a lot of Mormon and Mormon-adjacent media this week: Heather Gay's Surviving Mormonism, Elizabeth Smart's new documentary Kidnapped and Jennette McCurdy's latest novel Half His Age. As you can imagine, I've got thoughts! We get into purity culture and sex, what it means to face the very worst of Mormonism, and where the bounds of “religious freedom” really are. And I also end up sharing a heavy family conversation I had this week about immigration enforcement and just how intense everything feels right now. You can find the whole episode on the Girlscamp: Unplugged Patreon here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Week 5 - A Change:  Please email us at Comefollowmelesson@gmail.com

Ben and Rob sink their teeth into the endlessly debated phenomenon of Twilight (2008), the moody supernatural romance that launched a franchise, a thousand memes, and an entire generation of Team Edward vs. Team Jacob discourse. Starring Kristen Stewart, Robert Pattinson and Taylor Lautner, Twilight follows an awkward new girl who moves to a rainy town, falls for a mysterious classmate, and quickly discovers that eternal love comes with fangs, glitter, and some deeply questionable life choices.What is Twilight, really? A tragic romance, a paranormal soap opera, or an accidentally hilarious teen melodrama; how does the film's Mormon subtext shape its ideas about love, abstinence and destiny; and what went wrong (and occasionally right) behind the scenes during its famously scrappy production? How do the movie's stiff line readings, bizarre tonal shifts and earnest sincerity combine into something strangely compelling; what parts of the plot are genuinely effective, which are baffling, and which are completely unhinged; and how did this odd little adaptation become one of the biggest pop-culture juggernauts of the 21st century? And finally, what does Twilight actually mean about romance, identity, fantasy, and the stories we tell teenagers about what love is supposed to look like?CONSUUUME to find out all this and much, much more!PLUS! We have a Patreon with EXCLUSIVE content just for you starting at just ONE POUND (ish... Apple charge more for reasons?) a month - click the link below!Find us on your socials of choice atwww.linktr.ee/everymovieeverpodcast

A funeral sermon reconstructed from four sets of notes shouldn't bear the weight of an entire theology—unless it did, over time. We dive into the King Follett Discourse with clear eyes, tracing how a two-hour address in 1844 became a flashpoint for modern conversations about the nature of God, prophetic authority, and what truly counts as doctrine in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.Response to  @bayliebelieves  Two contrasting claims collide over the King Follett Discourse: a challenge that it's non-canon and unreliable versus a rebuttal that later LDS prophets taught its themes for decades. We trace what counts as doctrine, how sermons turn into beliefs, and why splinter groups say the center changed.• framing the LDS vs Christian critique over God's nature• the status of King Follett as non-canon funeral sermon• limits of note-based reconstructions and windy-day reporting• claims that Joseph Smith affirmed God's eternal divinity• the seventy-year continuity of related teachings by LDS leaders• canon versus sustained teaching as sources of doctrine• splinter groups alleging apostasy and doctrinal retreat• a plea for rigorous, charitable truth-seeking and reading full sourcesWe lay out the core tension. On one side, you'll hear the case for treating King Follett as non-canon, incomplete, and unreliable for defining belief, especially when listeners cherry-pick a sentence to score a point. On the other, we follow the historical thread: the ideas associated with the discourse were reiterated by successive LDS leaders for decades, shaping nineteenth-century Mormon thought and leaving a long tail that still touches today's debates. When doctrines appear in sermons and are echoed across presidencies, do they become functionally authoritative, even without formal canonization?Along the way, we cut through the noise: the windy-day reporting, the four accounts, the claim that Joseph Smith affirmed God's eternal divinity, and the counterclaim that he taught divine progression from manhood. We also map why splinter groups like the FLDS say mainstream LDS leadership abandoned earlier teachings, and how that accusation reframes the question of continuity versus change. If you care about LDS doctrine, Christian theology, or how living faith communities define truth, this conversation offers a thoughtful, historically grounded roadmap for better questions and better answers.If this resonated with you, follow the show, share it with a friend who loves religious history, and leave a review with your take: what should define doctrine—canon, sermons, or sustained teaching?Questions about Orthodoxy? Please check out our friends at Ghost of Byzantium Discord server: https://discord.gg/JDJDQw6tdhPlease prayerfully consider supporting Cloud of Witnesses Radio: https://www.patreon.com/c/CloudofWitnessesFind Cloud of Witnesses Radio on Instagram, X.com, Facebook, and TikTok.Please leave a comment with your thoughts!

Welcome to Episode 70 of our LDS Discussions series!In this episode, our panel takes a deep dive into one of the most debated questions surrounding the Book of Mormon: were ancient metal plates a known concept in Joseph Smith's world, and are they truly comparable to the golden plates he described?We examine historical sources from the 18th and 19th centuries that reference metal records –brass, copper, lead, and stone –and place them within Joseph Smith's cultural and intellectual milieu. From biblical scholarship and early American speculation about Native American origins to apologists' use of presentism, this episode carefully distinguishes between general awareness of metal inscriptions and the specific, unprecedented claims of a large golden codex containing extensive narrative text.Along the way, we explore major figures, books, and ideas circulating before and during Joseph Smith's lifetime, assess whether these sources were likely known to him, and ask a crucial question: at what point does probability break down –not because of a single anachronism, but because of the sheer scale and complexity of the plates described in the Book of Mormon?This conversation builds toward a detailed timeline of Joseph Smith's environment, highlighting how concepts expanded, evolved, and were ultimately synthesized into something entirely new.Leave a comment letting us know if you like this format with John Dehlin being “not home.”___________________YouTubeAt Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  Our overall mission is to: 1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions

Isaac found great consolation in his Mormon faith, but years of reading, talking, and studying made him have second thoughts. Ultimately, he had to ask himself: is this true, and why or why not? Isaac Hess joins the show to discuss his conversion process, growing ever-deeper into the heart of Christ.Reach out to Isaac: ldstocatholic@gmail.comFollow his new Substack: isaachess.substack.comNEW: Check out our Merch store! https://shop.lilaroseshow.com/Join our new Patreon community! https://patreon.com/lilaroseshow - We'll have BTS footage, ad-free episodes, and early access to our upcoming guests.A big thanks to our partner, EWTN, the world's leading Catholic network! Discover news, entertainment and more at https://www.ewtn.com/ Check out our Sponsors:-Brave+: Screen Time Made Good - Get a week free trial at https://braveplus.com/lila-EveryLife: https://www.everylife.com Buy diapers from an amazing pro-life diaper company and use code LILA to get 10% off!-Seven Weeks Coffee: https://www.sevenweekscoffee.com Buy your pro-life coffee and Save up to 25% with promo code 'LILA' & get a free gift: http://www.sevenweekscoffee.com-Hallow: https://www.hallow.com/lila Enter into prayer more deeply this season with the Hallow App, get 3 months free by using this link to sign up! 00:02:33 - Intro00:03:09 - Mormon Baptism00:06:20 - Growing up Mormon00:15:04 - His Mormon Mission00:21:08 - Where did the early church ‘go wrong'?00:24:35 - Who was Joseph Smith?00:36:07 - First Joseph Smith bio from non-LDS member00:37:09 - Was Joseph Smith a prophet?00:43:33 - Polygamy 00:56:13 - Joseph's wives01:09:34 - Spiritual Experiences as a Mormon?01:18:13 - Discovering Traditional Christianity01:23:46 - Getting challenged by his brother01:32:49 - Historical Problems in Mormonism01:36:14 - Joseph Smith vs King David01:37:03 - How to interpret prophets01:48:26 - Is Book of Mormon legit?01:58:22 - Why Catholic instead of Orthodox?02:03:55 - Early Church Disagreements02:11:24 - Was the Great Schism justified?02:15:33 - Journey into Catholicism02:18:37 - Protestant vs Catholic baptism?02:30:51 - Life as a Catholic

In the second of a 2-week series, MRM's Bill McKeever and Bradley Campbell discuss the June 1844 Nauvoo Expositor, the only edition printed and the destruction of the printing press and copies of the paper by Joseph Smith. Just what is this paper all about? Is it filled with lies? The truth? Or some of both? Check out God Loves Mormons video on this topic as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SX-pdGIXUU

Abstract: The name Helam, attested as a place name in the Bible is also attested as a personal and place name in the Book of Mormon. Evidence suggests that this name is derived from the Hebrew noun ḥayil/ḥêl, which has a wide range of meaning, including “wealth,” “abundance,” “power,” and even “army” (including Pharaoh's “army” or “host”). The form of Helam suggests the meaning, “[God is] their wealth,” “[God is] their abundance,” “[God is] their power,” and even “[God is] their army.” Although the promise latent in the name Helam is celebrated in their exceeding prosperity and abundance, Alma1's people also meet with a dramatic and ironic (apparent) reversal of this abundance and prosperity, when an army of the Lamanites occupies Helam and brings them into bondage. Mormon draws multiple lessons from this event, and he draws substantively from the language of Alma2's conversion accounts to narrate this event and its meaning. The post “They Did Multiply and Prosper Exceedingly in the Land of Helam”: Naming and Narrative Irony in Mosiah 23 first appeared on The Interpreter Foundation.

Three years later, I'm revisiting the question that kicked off the whole Girlscamp podcast. I talk about how my answer to why I left the Mormon church has evolved, and reflect on how this podcast has helped shape me. Here's to three more years!  The first Girlscamp episode Russell M. Nelson quote on the historicity of the Book of Mormon The Trevor Project Utah LGBTQ+ mental health statistics Sober Mormon TikTok post Tishmal “Leaving for Love” episode YouTube Tishmal “Leaving for Love” episode Join the Girlscamp: After Dark Patreon account ⁠⁠here⁠ for two bonus episodes per month and more. For more Girlscamp content follow along on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠, ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠. For ad inquiries please email girlscamppodcast@gmail.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of Mormon Stories Podcast, we talk with Jean Daniel about his journey from a devoted Mormon convert to a Christian pastor. Growing up in Boston, Jean discovered Mormonism as a teenager and found in it a strong sense of structure, identity, and belonging. He served a mission in San Diego, CA and was later married in the Newport beach temple.While studying at Harvard and Yale Divinity Schools, Jean began to see the value in many Christian traditions and ultimately let go of the idea of “one true church.” He shares how this shift led him toward a more open, hopeful approach to Christianity grounded in community. Today, Jean serves as the National Pastor of Canada for the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).This is a thoughtful conversation about faith after Mormonism and building a meaningful spiritual community with progressive beliefs.Please purchase the book ⁠here⁠.To support this series please donate ⁠here⁠. One half of all donations will go to Dr. Turner for as long as he is participating in the series.___________________YouTubeAt Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals.  Our overall mission is to: 1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions