Podcast appearances and mentions of Jamie Metzl

Every teacher struggling with AI use in the classroom needs to hear this episode. Jamie Metzl has a Ph.D. from Oxford, a law degree from Harvard, and has run 60 marathons. He spent nine years writing his first book. When he sat down to co-write The AI Ten Commandments with GPT-5 he didn't surrender his thinking, creativity or his soul. Jamie doubled down by documenting the process. It's the first major published book to list a human and an AI as co-authors. Steve Wozniak, one of the founders of Apple, summed it up like this: "If you care about the future, read this book." To which I'll add: It not only takes the best from our collective past. It draws a roadmap for students to get the most out of themselves by working with AI instead of hiding behind it. Teachers can use the process to see how and what students have learned. Please pass this podcast and Jamie's book on to every teacher you know. And students, too.

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Jamie Metzl asked AI to distill thousands of years of human wisdom into 10 commandments. What it reflected back says more about us than the machine.Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1338What We Discuss with Jamie Metzl:AI is a mirror, not a prophet. For his latest book, The AI Ten Commandments, Jamie Metzl worked with GPT-5 to mine humanity's scriptures, wars, myths, and philosophies for ten universal principles — not to worship AI or replace religion, but to hold up a mirror and stress-test the rules by which we're already living.Radical transparency about AI co-authorship cuts both ways. Putting GPT-5 on the cover felt honest to Jamie, but with public sentiment soured, the same disclosure that read as bold a year ago now reads to many as an admission of cheating.Pressing the button gets you "the total average of crap." Jamie cut 40% of the draft, rewrote the whole book, and hired two human editors — proof that good AI-assisted work comes from relentless human editing, not from outsourcing the thinking.Humans aren't on the verge of obsolescence. We represent nearly four billion years of embodied evolution, and the claim that machines will soon do everything better sells short the majesty of being human; the real frame is a Venn diagram of overlapping strengths.Stop building second-rate humans and second-rate machines. Don't fear replacement — ask how to help your humans be the best humans and your machines be the best machines, and use AI to stress-test the rules by which you're already living.And much more...And if you're still game to support us, please leave a review here — even one sentence helps! Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course!Subscribe to our once-a-week Wee Bit Wiser newsletter today and start filling your Wednesdays with wisdom!Do you even Reddit, bro? Join us at r/JordanHarbinger!This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: Lufthansa Allegris: Go to Lufthansa.com and search for "Allegris" to learn moreEarnIn: Download EarnIn on the App Store or Google Play, type JordanHarbinger under PodcastDripDrop: 20% off: DripDrop.com, code JORDANBooking.com: Book your getaway now with booking.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Jamie Metzl is a writer, futurist, and leading thinker on artificial intelligence, biotechnology, genetics, geopolitics, and the future of humanity. He is the author of Hacking Darwin, Superconvergence, and The AI Ten Commandments, and has worked across international affairs, human rights, global policy, and emerging technologies. In this episode, I speak with Jamie Metzl about artificial intelligence and the present and future of humanity. We begin with Jamie's smile and his particular kind of optimism, one that does not avoid darkness but insists on looking directly at it. From there we move into grief: the loss of his father, the pain of war, the emotional cost of technological acceleration, and the things we may already be losing without knowing how to mourn them. Jamie speaks about the need to stay connected to life even inside the cave of grief, the importance of zero-technology spaces, the danger of algorithms that monetize our attention, and why human creativity, presence, embodiment, and love remain irreplaceable. This is not a conversation about whether AI is good or bad. It is a conversation about what kind of humans we will need to become in order to meet the future without surrendering our humanity.As always, your comments are very valuable to me. Thank you for sharing and co-creating better questions with me. With love,Victor_______________________________________________________Don't want to miss the premiere of new episodes?Get them straight to your inbox. Sign up here: unique-author-3554.kit.com/volver-al-futuroMore content at:

Jamie Metzl is an American author, geopolitical analyst, and technology futurist who focuses on the intersection of artificial intelligence, genetics, biotechnology, and global politics. He is known for writing and speaking about how emerging technologies could reshape society, healthcare, and human evolution.Metzl shares his insights on the importance of responsible governance, cautious optimism, and global cooperation in the face of rapid technological advancement. As we move forward, it will be crucial to balance innovation with ethical considerations to ensure a positive impact on humanity.Learn more about Jamie Metzl and read his new book The AI Ten Commandments Keep up to date with Peter on SubstackKeep up to date with Kasia!watch this episode on YouTube! Producer: Rachel BarrettThanks to our researcher Chris van Ryn! And thanks to Maia Iva! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A professor at an elite university noticed something alarming: every student's work was flawless . . . and nearly identical. All of it generated by AI. So she did the unthinkable (for the students, anyway). She banned devices and allowed only pen and paper. What happened next surprised everyone, including her students. But going Old School isn't the overall point of this episode. Cal uses this story to give a taste of the evolution of his podcast Big Questions: The Future of Work. In this episode, best-selling author Jamie Metzl describes how he used the work ethic he'd developed over decades to combine with the speed and scope of AI in the writing of his new book: The AI Ten Commandments. Meanwhile CEO coach Charles Gaudet predicts how we are close to a day when people will apply for jobs with AI at their side. Job applicants will soon hear the phrase BYOA. That's: Bring Your Own Agents. In both cases, this runway answers the question of how to get the best out of ourselves and AI together. With Old School values and New Age tools.

Technology and healthcare futurist Jamie Metzl discusses the potential benefits and risks of artificial intelligence and the urgent need for ethical guidelines to ensure it is used responsibly. He introduces his new book, The AI 10 Commandments, co-authored with GPT-5, which provides principles to help humans utilize the technology responsibly.   Jamie highlights the importance of finding a balance between accelerating development in the global AI race and establishing the guardrails necessary to prevent irreversible harm. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When someone is diagnosed with cancer, one of the first questions is simple: What happens next? But for many, that question doesn't come with a clear answer. Instead, it opens the door to something much harder to navigate—uncertainty.In this episode of NETWise, host Jessica Thomas explores what it means to live in that space of the unknown. From the shock of diagnosis to the ongoing reality of treatment decisions, scan results, and everything in between, uncertainty becomes a constant companion for many people living with neuroendocrine cancer.Through deeply personal stories and expert insight, this episode brings together the voices of patients, a caregiver, and a physician who is also a patient—each offering a different perspective on how to cope, adapt, and move forward without all the answers.You'll hear from:Jackie Dong, diagnosed at just 23, navigating recovery and redefining his outlook on lifeDr. Mark Lewis, oncologist and patient, sharing the limits of statistics and the reality of lived experienceJennifer Rogers Anderson, who found peace by letting go of the need to knowJessica Ochoa, confronting the hardest question—how much time do I have?Gary Murfin, emphasizing the importance of self-advocacy and informed decision-makingJamie Metzl, a caregiver whose search for knowledge became deeply personalTogether, their stories reveal a powerful truth: uncertainty doesn't just happen at diagnosis—it continues throughout the cancer journey. It shows up in treatment decisions, in waiting for scan results, in understanding the disease itself, and in imagining the future.But while uncertainty may not go away, the way we relate to it can change.This episode explores:The emotional impact of a cancer diagnosis and the shock that followsWhy statistics and percentages don't always translate to individual experienceThe balance between seeking information and avoiding overwhelmThe reality of “scan-xiety” and living between resultsHow routines, movement, and mindset can create stabilityThe importance of self-advocacy and trusted informationWhat it means to not just survive—but thrive—within uncertaintyAt its core, this conversation is about learning how to live alongside uncertainty—not by eliminating it, but by finding ways to stay grounded, present, and connected to what matters most.Because while the future may not always be clear… the way we show up for each day still is. NET specialists included in this episodeUse our episode infographics to get a visual picture of some of the things we have discussed. Mark Lewis, MD, Director of Gastrointestinal Oncology, Intermountain Healthcare A special thank you to Jackie Dong, Jennifer Rogers Anderson, Jamie Metzl, Jessica Ochoa, Gary Murfin, Dr. Mark Lewis, for sharing her neuroendocrine cancer journey. Download a transcript of this episode. The post Episode 54: Sitting With Uncertainty appeared first on NETRF.

This past week, futurist and bestselling author Jamie Metzl joined Jessica Rosenthal on the FOX News Rundown to discuss the latest advancements in AI, as well as where the technology's rapid growth collides with ethics and morality. For example, just because a company can do more with fewer people, should that justify mass layoffs? Metzl gave his take on the changing job market and addressed the violent reactions from those fearful of AI—including the recent arrest of a man accused of throwing a Molotov cocktail at the home of OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. The suspect was reportedly found with a manifesto detailing his anger toward the growing influence of artificial intelligence. Metzl also discussed his new book, The AI 10 Commandments, in which he makes a compelling case for a new moral compass and the urgent need for a collective ethical agreement as we advance our use of artificial intelligence. We often have to edit our weekday interviews for time, but we wanted you to hear the full conversation. Today, on FOX News Rundown: Extra, we bring you the complete, unedited interview with author and futurist Jamie Metzl. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This past week, futurist and bestselling author Jamie Metzl joined Jessica Rosenthal on the FOX News Rundown to discuss the latest advancements in AI, as well as where the technology's rapid growth collides with ethics and morality. For example, just because a company can do more with fewer people, should that justify mass layoffs? Metzl gave his take on the changing job market and addressed the violent reactions from those fearful of AI—including the recent arrest of a man accused of throwing a Molotov cocktail at the home of OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. The suspect was reportedly found with a manifesto detailing his anger toward the growing influence of artificial intelligence. Metzl also discussed his new book, The AI 10 Commandments, in which he makes a compelling case for a new moral compass and the urgent need for a collective ethical agreement as we advance our use of artificial intelligence. We often have to edit our weekday interviews for time, but we wanted you to hear the full conversation. Today, on FOX News Rundown: Extra, we bring you the complete, unedited interview with author and futurist Jamie Metzl. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This past week, futurist and bestselling author Jamie Metzl joined Jessica Rosenthal on the FOX News Rundown to discuss the latest advancements in AI, as well as where the technology's rapid growth collides with ethics and morality. For example, just because a company can do more with fewer people, should that justify mass layoffs? Metzl gave his take on the changing job market and addressed the violent reactions from those fearful of AI—including the recent arrest of a man accused of throwing a Molotov cocktail at the home of OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. The suspect was reportedly found with a manifesto detailing his anger toward the growing influence of artificial intelligence. Metzl also discussed his new book, The AI 10 Commandments, in which he makes a compelling case for a new moral compass and the urgent need for a collective ethical agreement as we advance our use of artificial intelligence. We often have to edit our weekday interviews for time, but we wanted you to hear the full conversation. Today, on FOX News Rundown: Extra, we bring you the complete, unedited interview with author and futurist Jamie Metzl. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As questions mount over the mysterious disappearances and deaths among high-level researchers, national security concerns have been sparked, and the focus now shifts to whether or not these cases are directly linked to United States classified aerospace and weapons programs. Missouri Congressman Eric Burlison joins to discuss why the suspicious suicide of a former intelligence officer and the unexplained vanishing of researchers from NASA and the Los Alamos National Laboratory have prompted a formal request for an FBI investigation into the occurrences. As AI-driven layoffs hit major firms from Amazon to Meta, a growing sense of anxiety is taking hold of the American workforce. Recent headlines have even turned violent, with attacks targeting tech leaders and local officials, allegedly over job automation and data center fears. Futurist and author Jamie Metzl joins us to explain why he dismisses the idea of machines fully replacing people, advocating for a collaborative "human-plus-AI" model and a global moral framework to ensure this rapid transition remains a creative force rather than a destructive one. PLUS, commentary by Gregg Jarrett, FOX News legal analyst and commentator. PHOTO CREDIT: FOX NEWS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As questions mount over the mysterious disappearances and deaths among high-level researchers, national security concerns have been sparked, and the focus now shifts to whether or not these cases are directly linked to United States classified aerospace and weapons programs. Missouri Congressman Eric Burlison joins to discuss why the suspicious suicide of a former intelligence officer and the unexplained vanishing of researchers from NASA and the Los Alamos National Laboratory have prompted a formal request for an FBI investigation into the occurrences. As AI-driven layoffs hit major firms from Amazon to Meta, a growing sense of anxiety is taking hold of the American workforce. Recent headlines have even turned violent, with attacks targeting tech leaders and local officials, allegedly over job automation and data center fears. Futurist and author Jamie Metzl joins us to explain why he dismisses the idea of machines fully replacing people, advocating for a collaborative "human-plus-AI" model and a global moral framework to ensure this rapid transition remains a creative force rather than a destructive one. PLUS, commentary by Gregg Jarrett, FOX News legal analyst and commentator. PHOTO CREDIT: FOX NEWS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As questions mount over the mysterious disappearances and deaths among high-level researchers, national security concerns have been sparked, and the focus now shifts to whether or not these cases are directly linked to United States classified aerospace and weapons programs. Missouri Congressman Eric Burlison joins to discuss why the suspicious suicide of a former intelligence officer and the unexplained vanishing of researchers from NASA and the Los Alamos National Laboratory have prompted a formal request for an FBI investigation into the occurrences. As AI-driven layoffs hit major firms from Amazon to Meta, a growing sense of anxiety is taking hold of the American workforce. Recent headlines have even turned violent, with attacks targeting tech leaders and local officials, allegedly over job automation and data center fears. Futurist and author Jamie Metzl joins us to explain why he dismisses the idea of machines fully replacing people, advocating for a collaborative "human-plus-AI" model and a global moral framework to ensure this rapid transition remains a creative force rather than a destructive one. PLUS, commentary by Gregg Jarrett, FOX News legal analyst and commentator. PHOTO CREDIT: FOX NEWS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Polls are open: will the Democrats get their way in Virginia?   [00:00:00] Glenn Youngkin   [00:18:34] Jamie Metzl   [00:36:47] Jim Gilmore   [00:55:08] Neil Chatterjee   [01:05:08] Varney Simulcast   [01:13:08] Karl Rove   [01:27:44] Dana Perino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“These technologies are morally agnostic. They could be the best things ever and the worst things ever, and the determinant is us.” — Jamie Metzl Two summers ago, Jamie Metzl gave a talk on AI and spirituality at the Chautauqua Institution in Upstate New York. That same spot where Salman Rushdie was stabbed on stage a couple of years earlier. Rather than an assassination attempt, Metzl's talk triggered The AI Ten Commandments: A New Moral Code for Humanity — a book co-authored with GPT-5. Metzl humbly claims that AI enabled him to incorporate other non-Christian traditions in a new moral code for humanity. Some might think, however, that this type of ChatGPT-5 co-production reflects a new moral crisis for humanity. The victory of AI slop. Fast information. High on intellectual calories, low on everything else. Five Takeaways •       Co-Authoring with GPT-5: Five to six thousand back-and-forth exchanges over the course of writing the book. Metzl is a novelist who cares deeply about language and the provenance of ideas — he is explicit that this is not the kind of AI fraud that got Mia Ballard's book pulled from Hachette. The analogy he reaches for: Refik Anadol at MoMA, whose installation uses the museum's entire digital collection not to reproduce the images but to create something new from them. The collaboration with AI isn't about outsourcing the thinking. It's about gaining a vantage point that no individual human could have — the same way we collaborate with machines in biology to see the genome, which no one could simply observe by looking at another person. •       Moses's Problem: The biblical 10 commandments, examined closely, don't hold up. The first two are preamble. “Thou shalt not kill” — Moses received it on Sinai and then came down and murdered 3,000 people at God's instruction. The commandments were written by people with no awareness of the moral traditions of the Americas, Asia, or Africa. Metzl's counterproposal uses AI to look at all of human recorded history simultaneously — every tradition, every culture, every spiritual framework — and decipher what they share. The analogy: the Artemis II astronauts seeing Earth holistically from space, rather than one community at a time. •       The Ten Commandments, Listed: (1) Treat every being with compassion and dignity. (2) Do no harm; actively protect the vulnerable. (3) Speak and act truthfully, with integrity and humility. (4) Share generously, especially with those in need. (5) Seek to understand others before judging them. (6) Resolve conflict with fairness, forgiveness, and the intent to heal. (7) Live in harmony with nature and all forms of life. (8) Value wisdom over dominance; cultivate inner growth. (9) Honour the freedom and uniqueness of others. (10) Remember the sacredness of life; live with awe, gratitude, and love. Metzl's favourite is number ten. Andrew's objection: you don't need GPT-5 to come up with any of these. You could get most of them from a local Buddhist centre. •       Humanistic Slop vs. Selfish Survivalism: Andrew's repeated challenge: these principles are so unobjectionable that they amount to nothing — a kind of AI-laundered platitude. Metzl half-concedes, but argues that the absence of articulated universal norms is itself a political danger. Kant described the League of Peace in 1795. It took a hundred and fifty years and two world wars before the UN Charter was signed in 1945. The UN has now largely failed. If we don't articulate what we're trying to achieve, it becomes even harder to get there. Globalism, in Metzl's framing, isn't idealism. It's survivalism. Our fates are intertwined whether we recognise it or not. •       The Eleventh Commandment: World-changing technologies must be governed responsibly, including through national regulation and accountability frameworks. The hope that AI CEOs will voluntarily do the right thing — even the best of them, even Dario, even Demis — is a terrible strategy. It will fail, because some companies will always seek opportunity. The nuclear analogy: at the dawn of the nuclear age, nobody said “alright, just do whatever you want and good luck.” These are civilizational transformations. They require governance. These technologies are morally agnostic. They could be the best things ever and the worst things ever. The determinant is us. About the Guest Jamie Metzl is a technology futurist, geopolitics expert, sci-fi novelist, and founder and chair of OneShared.World. He is a Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council and a Singularity University expert. He is the author of The AI Ten Commandments: A New Moral Code for Humanity (co-authored with GPT-5, April 21, 2026), Superconvergence, and Hacking Darwin. References: •       The AI Ten Commandments: A New Moral Code for Humanity by Jamie Metzl and GPT-5 (April 21, 2026). •       OneShared.World — Metzl's global social movement and Declaration of Interdependence. •       Episode 2877: Keith Teare on AI Is Not Dangerous — the Silicon Valley seminary argument, one episode prior. •       Episode 2878: Victoria Hetherington on The Friend Machine — the AI intimacy investigation that immediately precedes this show. About Keen On America Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen. In Keen On America, Andrew brings his pointed Transatlantic wit to making sense of the United States — hosting daily interviews about the history and future of this now venerable Republic. With nearly 2,900 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting. WebsiteSubstackYouTubeApple PodcastsSpotify Chapters: (00:31) - Why GPT-5 and not Claude? The co-author question (02:58) - Is this a joke? The Chautauqua origin story (05:09) - The Refik Anadol distinction: collaboration vs. fraud (07:57) - From the genome to the moral code: why collaborate with AI (08:54) - What is Chautauqua? The six-thousand-person standing ovation (09:53) - Moses's problem: the biblical 10 commandments examined (12:48) - Sam Altman and the Ronan Farrow piece (14:00) - Advanced praise from the Vatican and a leading reform rabbi

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Technology futurist Jamie Metzl joins Brian Kilmeade to discuss his groundbreaking new book, The AI 10 Commandments, co-authored with GPT-5. Jamie breaks down why Americans shouldn't fear a "robot takeover," why blue-collar jobs are safer than you think, and the 10 moral principles we need to survive the accelerating AI revolution. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brian breaks down the 13th day of the US-Israel conflict with Iran, reporting on the "decapitation" of the IRGC and the destruction of the Iranian Navy. He is joined by Lt. Col. Allen West and Marc Thiessen to discuss why this "war of choice" was actually provoked by 47 years of Iranian aggression and what it means for gas prices at home. [00:18:26] Allen West   [00:36:50] Marc Thiessen   [00:55:13] Josh Kraushaar   [01:13:36] Jamie Metzl   [01:32:00] Eli Lake Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My guest today is Jamie Metzl—a former national security official, biotech futurist, and one of the earliest public voices to argue that Covid likely came from a lab accident. We talk about why that possibility became taboo; what gain-of-function research gets wrong; and how fear and politics distort scientific judgment. From there, we move into the future of gene editing, embryo selection, genetically modified organisms (GMOs), and artificial intelligence (AI)—what's actually coming, what people misunderstand, and why the hardest questions ahead of us aren't likely technical, but moral. https://jamiemetzl.com/human-genetic-engineering-and-the-catholic-church/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Technology and health care futurist Jamie Metzl joins Howard Schweitzer, chief executive officer of Cozen O'Connor Public Strategies, for a wide-ranging conversation on the amazing technological revolutions defining our era. As artificial intelligence, genetics, and biotechnology converge at unprecedented speed, the time between transformative revolutions—from fire and agriculture to industrialization and now AI—continues to shrink. Together, they explore what this superconvergence means for humanity, why innovation is accelerating faster than our institutions, and how the choices made today will shape the future of civilization.

This episode is sponsored by AGNTCY. Unlock agents at scale with an open Internet of Agents.  Visit https://agntcy.org/ and add your support. Why are AI, biotechnology, and gene editing converging right now, and what does that mean for the future of humanity? In this episode of Eye on AI, host Craig Smith sits down with futurist and author Jamie Metzl to explore the superconvergence of artificial intelligence, genomics, and exponential technologies that are reshaping life on Earth. We examine the ethical and scientific realities behind human genome editing, the controversy around CRISPR babies, and why society is not yet ready to edit human embryos at scale. The conversation unpacks the complexity of biology, the risks of tech driven hubris, and why governance, values, and social norms must evolve alongside scientific breakthroughs. You will also hear a wide ranging discussion on health span versus longevity, AI and human decision making, education and inequality, and how these technologies could either unlock massive human flourishing or deepen existing global challenges depending on the choices we make today. Stay Updated: Craig Smith on X: https://x.com/craigss  Eye on A.I. on X: https://x.com/EyeOn_AI   

In Episode 454 of Hidden Forces, Demetri Kofinas speaks with author, futurist, and U.S. foreign policy expert Jamie Metzl about the aims and objectives of the 2025 National Security Strategy and its implications for American prosperity and power in the 21st century. Jamie and Demetri spend the first hour of this conversation digging into the Trump administration's 2025 National Security Strategy and the story that the administration is trying to tell to the American people and to itself about America's place in the world, where it went astray, and what needs to be done on a strategic planning level in order to "Make America Great Again." From there, Metzl and Kofinas debate whether the strategy amounts to a "containment" of China or something closer to a 19th-century balance-of-power where the largest and most powerful countries—namely the United States, Russia, and China—will be granted the freedom to operate with impunity within their own spheres of influence, dealing a final death blow to the international rules-based liberal order that the United States sought to universalize after the fall of the Soviet Union more than three decades ago. The second hour is a wide-ranging tour through what this strategy might look like in practice, from the Western Hemisphere and Venezuela to Europe and Ukraine, and what "power politics" means when so much of modern conflict is fought through influence campaigns, institutional sabotage, and cyber operations rather than through the use of conventional arms and occupations. The two also explore the dangerous vacuum created when a superpower can no longer clearly articulate what it stands for—at home or abroad—and how that confusion can lead to a cascade of unintended consequences that further destabilize the international system, resulting in a new form of total war. Subscribe to our premium content—including our premium feed, episode transcripts, and Intelligence Reports—by visiting HiddenForces.io/subscribe. If you'd like to join the conversation and become a member of the Hidden Forces Genius community—with benefits like Q&A calls with guests, exclusive research and analysis, in-person events, and dinners—you can also sign up on our subscriber page at HiddenForces.io/subscribe. If you enjoyed today's episode of Hidden Forces, please support the show by: Subscribing on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, Stitcher, SoundCloud, CastBox, or via our RSS Feed Writing us a review on Apple Podcasts & Spotify Joining our mailing list at https://hiddenforces.io/newsletter/ Producer & Host: Demetri Kofinas Editor & Engineer: Stylianos Nicolaou Subscribe and support the podcast at https://hiddenforces.io. Join the conversation on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at @hiddenforcespod Follow Demetri on Twitter at @Kofinas Episode Recorded on 12/15/2025

Most parents know what goes into raising children: the time spent changing diapers in inopportune places; the hours of worrying—about what to feed them, how to educate them, how to protect them and keep them healthy; the countless hours devoted to dance classes, summer camps, pediatricians, and piano lessons—all investments meant to give them the best chance in life. Most of us would do anything to help our kids become the most successful and happiest versions of themselves. But what if we could start earlier? At the molecular level. What if we could ensure our babies were healthier, smarter, and stronger, before they even took their first breath? Right now, several biotech companies are doing just that. They offer embryo screening for couples undergoing in vitro fertilization (IVF). These companies don't just score embryos for disease risk, which has become standard practice for anyone undergoing IVF—they go further. Nucleus Genomics promises “optimization” of traits like heart health and cancer resistance, as well as intelligence, longevity, body mass index, baldness, eye color, hair color, etc. It even suggests it may predict a predisposition to become an alcoholic. In the future, we may be able to more than just screen and select. We'll be able to make tweaks to our own embryos in order to “optimize” them. This isn't something out of Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. It's the very real, and near, future. Some would argue it's already here. It all creates profound and critical questions. So we hosted a debate: Is it ethical to design our unborn children? And are we morally obligated to do so when the risks of abstaining include serious diseases? Or does designing babies cross a line? Is it wrong to play God and manipulate humanity's genetic heritage? Arguing that designing babies is not only an ethical choice, but indeed a moral imperative, are Jamie Metzl and Dr. Allyson Berent. Jamie is a technology and healthcare futurist, who was a member of the World Health Organization Expert Advisory Committee on Human Genome Editing. He's also written several best-selling books on this subject, including Hacking Darwin: Genetic Engineering and the Future of Humanity. Allyson is a veterinarian who has become an incredible force for genetic research since her daughter, Quincy, was diagnosed with Angelman syndrome. She serves as chief science officer of the Foundation for Angelman Syndrome Therapeutics and chief development officer at a biotechnology company, where she helps accelerate gene therapy programs for Angelman syndrome. Arguing that designing babies is unethical are O. Carter Snead and Dr. Lydia Dugdale. Carter is a bioethicist and law professor at Notre Dame. He served as general counsel to the President's Council on Bioethics under George W. Bush and as an appointed member of UNESCO's International Bioethics Committee. He is also an appointed member of the Pontifical Academy for Life, which advises the pope on bioethics. Lydia is a physician, medical ethicist, and professor of medicine at Columbia University, where she serves as director of the Center for Clinical Medical Ethics. She is also Co-Director of Clinical Ethics at NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital/Columbia University Irving Medical Center. It's a critical debate you won't want to miss.  The Free Press is honored to have partnered with the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression to present this debate. Head to TheFire.org to learn more about this indispensable organization. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How can you write science-based fiction without info-dumping your research? How can you use AI tools in a creative way, while still focusing on a human-first approach? Why is adapting to the fast pace of change so difficult and how can we make the most of this time? Jamie Metzl talks about Superconvergence and more. In the intro, How to avoid author scams [Written Word Media]; Spotify vs Audible audiobook strategy [The New Publishing Standard]; Thoughts on Author Nation and why constraints are important in your author life [Self-Publishing with ALLi]; Alchemical History And Beautiful Architecture: Prague with Lisa M Lilly on my Books and Travel Podcast. Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital.com to get started. This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Jamie Metzl is a technology futurist, professional speaker, entrepreneur, and the author of sci-fi thrillers and futurist nonfiction books, including the revised and updated edition of Superconvergence: How the Genetics, Biotech, and AI Revolutions Will Transform Our Lives, Work, and World. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes How personal history shaped Jamie's fiction writing Writing science-based fiction without info-dumping The super convergence of three revolutions (genetics, biotech, AI) and why we need to understand them holistically Using fiction to explore the human side of genetic engineering, life extension, and robotics Collaborating with GPT-5 as a named co-author How to be a first-rate human rather than a second-rate machine You can find Jamie at JamieMetzl.com. Transcript of interview with Jamie Metzl Jo: Jamie Metzl is a technology futurist, professional speaker, entrepreneur, and the author of sci-fi thrillers and futurist nonfiction books, including the revised and updated edition of Superconvergence: How the Genetics, Biotech, and AI Revolutions Will Transform Our Lives, Work, and World. So welcome, Jamie. Jamie: Thank you so much, Jo. Very happy to be here with you. Jo: There is so much we could talk about, but let's start with you telling us a bit more about you and how you got into writing. From History PhD to First Novel Jamie: Well, I think like a lot of writers, I didn't know I was a writer. I was just a kid who loved writing. Actually, just last week I was going through a bunch of boxes from my parents' house and I found my autobiography, which I wrote when I was nine years old. So I've been writing my whole life and loving it. It was always something that was very important to me. When I finished my DPhil, my PhD at Oxford, and my dissertation came out, it just got scooped up by Macmillan in like two minutes. And I thought, “God, that was easy.” That got me started thinking about writing books. I wanted to write a novel based on the same historical period – my PhD was in Southeast Asian history – and I wanted to write a historical novel set in the same period as my dissertation, because I felt like the dissertation had missed the human element of the story I was telling, which was related to the Cambodian genocide and its aftermath. So I wrote what became my first novel, and I thought, “Wow, now I'm a writer.” I thought, “All right, I've already published one book. I'm gonna get this other book out into the world.” And then I ran into the brick wall of: it's really hard to be a writer. It's almost easier to write something than to get it published. I had to learn a ton, and it took nine years from when I started writing that first novel, The Depths of the Sea, to when it finally came out. But it was such a positive experience, especially to have something so personal to me as that story. I'd lived in Cambodia for two years, I'd worked on the Thai-Cambodian border, and I'm the child of a Holocaust survivor. So there was a whole lot that was very emotional for me. That set a pattern for the rest of my life as a writer, at least where, in my nonfiction books, I'm thinking about whatever the issues are that are most important to me. Whether it was that historical book, which was my first book, or Hacking Darwin on the future of human genetic engineering, which was my last book, or Superconvergence, which, as you mentioned in the intro, is my current book. But in every one of those stories, the human element is so deep and so profound. You can get at some of that in nonfiction, but I've also loved exploring those issues in deeper ways in my fiction. So in my more recent novels, Genesis Code and Eternal Sonata, I've looked at the human side of the story of genetic engineering and human life extension. And now my agent has just submitted my new novel, Virtuoso, about the intersection of AI, robotics, and classical music. With all of this, who knows what's the real difference between fiction and nonfiction? We're all humans trying to figure things out on many different levels. Shifting from History to Future Tech Jo: I knew that you were a polymath, someone who's interested in so many things, but the music angle with robotics and AI is fascinating. I do just want to ask you, because I was also at Oxford – what college were you at? Jamie: I was in St. Antony's. Jo: I was at Mansfield, so we were in that slightly smaller, less famous college group, if people don't know. Jamie: You know, but we're small but proud. Jo: Exactly. That's fantastic. You mentioned that you were on the historical side of things at the beginning and now you've moved into technology and also science, because this book Superconvergence has a lot of science. So how did you go from history and the past into science and the future? Biology and Seeing the Future Coming Jamie: It's a great question. I'll start at the end and then back up. A few years ago I was speaking at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, which is one of the big scientific labs here in the United States. I was a guest of the director and I was speaking to their 300 top scientists. I said to them, “I'm here to speak with you about the future of biology at the invitation of your director, and I'm really excited. But if you hear something wrong, please raise your hand and let me know, because I'm entirely self-taught. The last biology course I took was in 11th grade of high school in Kansas City.” Of course I wouldn't say that if I didn't have a lot of confidence in my process. But in many ways I'm self-taught in the sciences. As you know, Jo, and as all of your listeners know, the foundation of everything is curiosity and then a disciplined process for learning. Even our greatest super-specialists in the world now – whatever their background – the world is changing so fast that if anyone says, “Oh, I have a PhD in physics/chemistry/biology from 30 years ago,” the exact topic they learned 30 years ago is less significant than their process for continuous learning. More specifically, in the 1990s I was working on the National Security Council for President Clinton, which is the president's foreign policy staff. My then boss and now close friend, Richard Clarke – who became famous as the guy who had tragically predicted 9/11 – used to say that the key to efficacy in Washington and in life is to try to solve problems that other people can't see. For me, almost 30 years ago, I felt to my bones that this intersection of what we now call AI and the nascent genetics revolution and the nascent biotechnology revolution was going to have profound implications for humanity. So I just started obsessively educating myself. When I was ready, I started writing obscure national security articles. Those got a decent amount of attention, so I was invited to testify before the United States Congress. I was speaking out a lot, saying, “Hey, this is a really important story. A lot of people are missing it. Here are the things we should be thinking about for the future.” I wasn't getting the kind of traction that I wanted. I mentioned before that my first book had been this dry Oxford PhD dissertation, and that had led to my first novel. So I thought, why don't I try the same approach again – writing novels to tell this story about the genetics, biotech, and what later became known popularly as the AI revolution? That led to my two near-term sci-fi novels, Genesis Code and Eternal Sonata. On my book tours for those novels, when I explained the underlying science to people in my way, as someone who taught myself, I could see in their eyes that they were recognizing not just that something big was happening, but that they could understand it and feel like they were part of that story. That's what led me to write Hacking Darwin, as I mentioned. That book really unlocked a lot of things. I had essentially predicted the CRISPR babies that were born in China before it happened – down to the specific gene I thought would be targeted, which in fact was the case. After that book was published, Dr. Tedros, the Director-General of the World Health Organization, invited me to join the WHO Expert Advisory Committee on Human Genome Editing, which I did. It was a really great experience and got me thinking a lot about the upside of this revolution and the downside. The Birth of Superconvergence Jamie: I get a lot of wonderful invitations to speak, and I have two basic rules for speaking: Never use notes. Never ever. Never stand behind a podium. Never ever. Because of that, when I speak, my talks tend to migrate. I'd be speaking with people about the genetics revolution as it applied to humans, and I'd say, “Well, this is just a little piece of a much bigger story.” The bigger story is that after nearly four billion years of life on Earth, our one species has the increasing ability to engineer novel intelligence and re-engineer life. The big question for us, and frankly for the world, is whether we're going to be able to use that almost godlike superpower wisely. As that idea got bigger and bigger, it became this inevitable force. You write so many books, Jo, that I think it's second nature for you. Every time I finish a book, I think, “Wow, that was really hard. I'm never doing that again.” And then the books creep up on you. They call to you. At some point you say, “All right, now I'm going to do it.” So that was my current book, Superconvergence. Like everything, every journey you take a step, and that step inspires another step and another. That's why writing and living creatively is such a wonderfully exciting thing – there's always more to learn and always great opportunities to push ourselves in new ways. Balancing Deep Research with Good Storytelling Jo: Yeah, absolutely. I love that you've followed your curiosity and then done this disciplined process for learning. I completely understand that. But one of the big issues with people like us who love the research – and having read your Superconvergence, I know how deeply you go into this and how deeply you care that it's correct – is that with fiction, one of the big problems with too much research is the danger of brain-dumping. Readers go to fiction for escapism. They want the interesting side of it, but they want a story first. What are your tips for authors who might feel like, “Where's the line between putting in my research so that it's interesting for readers, but not going too far and turning it into a textbook?” How do you find that balance? Jamie: It's such a great question. I live in New York now, but I used to live in Washington when I was working for the U.S. government, and there were a number of people I served with who later wrote novels. Some of those novels felt like policy memos with a few sex scenes – and that's not what to do. To write something that's informed by science or really by anything, everything needs to be subservient to the story and the characters. The question is: what is the essential piece of information that can convey something that's both important to your story and your character development, and is also an accurate representation of the world as you want it to be? I certainly write novels that are set in the future – although some of them were a future that's now already happened because I wrote them a long time ago. You can make stuff up, but as an author you have to decide what your connection to existing science and existing technology and the existing world is going to be. I come at it from two angles. One: I read a huge number of scientific papers and think, “What does this mean for now, and if you extrapolate into the future, where might that go?” Two: I think about how to condense things. We've all read books where you're humming along because people read fiction for story and emotional connection, and then you hit a bit like: “I sat down in front of the president, and the president said, ‘Tell me what I need to know about the nuclear threat.'” And then it's like: insert memo. That's a deal-killer. It's like all things – how do you have a meaningful relationship with another person? It's not by just telling them your story. Even when you're telling them something about you, you need to be imagining yourself sitting in their shoes, hearing you. These are very different disciplines, fiction and nonfiction. But for the speculative nonfiction I write – “here's where things are now, and here's where the world is heading” – there's a lot of imagination that goes into that too. It feels in many ways like we're living in a sci-fi world because the rate of technological change has been accelerating continuously, certainly for the last 12,000 years since the dawn of agriculture. It's a balance. For me, I feel like I'm a better fiction writer because I write nonfiction, and I'm a better nonfiction writer because I write fiction. When I'm writing nonfiction, I don't want it to be boring either – I want people to feel like there's a story and characters and that they can feel themselves inside that story. Jo: Yeah, definitely. I think having some distance helps as well. If you're really deep into your topics, as you are, you have to leave that manuscript a little bit so you can go back with the eyes of the reader as opposed to your eyes as the expert. Then you can get their experience, which is great. Looking Beyond Author-Focused AI Fears Jo: I want to come to your technical knowledge, because AI is a big thing in the author and creative community, like everywhere else. One of the issues is that creators are focusing on just this tiny part of the impact of AI, and there's a much bigger picture. For example, in 2024, Demis Hassabis from Google DeepMind and his collaborative partner John Jumper won the Nobel Prize for Chemistry with AlphaFold. It feels to me like there's this massive world of what's happening with AI in health, climate, and other areas, and yet we are so focused on a lot of the negative stuff. Maybe you could give us a couple of things about what there is to be excited and optimistic about in terms of AI-powered science? Jamie: Sure. I'm so excited about all of the new opportunities that AI creates. But I also think there's a reason why evolution has preserved this very human feeling of anxiety: because there are real dangers. Anybody who's Pollyanna-ish and says, “Oh, the AI story is inevitably positive,” I'd be distrustful. And anyone who says, “We're absolutely doomed, this is the end of humanity,” I'd also be distrustful. So let me tell you the positives and the negatives, and maybe some thoughts about how we navigate toward the former and away from the latter. AI as the New Electricity Jamie: When people think of AI right now, they're thinking very narrowly about these AI tools and ChatGPT. But we don't think of electricity that way. Nobody says, “I know electricity – electricity is what happens at the power station.” We've internalised the idea that electricity is woven into not just our communication systems or our houses, but into our clothes, our glasses – it's woven into everything and has super-empowered almost everything in our modern lives. That's what AI is. In Superconvergence, the majority of the book is about positive opportunities: In healthcare, moving from generalised healthcare based on population averages to personalised or precision healthcare based on a molecular understanding of each person's individual biology. As we build these massive datasets like the UK Biobank, we can take a next jump toward predictive and preventive healthcare, where we're able to address health issues far earlier in the process, when interventions can be far more benign. I'm really excited about that, not to mention the incredible new kinds of treatments – gene therapies, or pharmaceuticals based on genetics and systems-biology analyses of patients. Then there's agriculture. Over the last hundred years, because of the technologies of the Green Revolution and synthetic fertilisers, we've had an incredible increase in agricultural productivity. That's what's allowed us to quadruple the global population. But if we just continue agriculture as it is, as we get towards ten billion wealthier, more empowered people wanting to eat like we eat, we're going to have to wipe out all the wild spaces on Earth to feed them. These technologies help provide different paths toward increasing agricultural productivity with fewer inputs of land, water, fertiliser, insecticides, and pesticides. That's really positive. I could go on and on about these positives – and I do – but there are very real negatives. I was a member of the WHO Expert Advisory Committee on Human Genome Editing after the first CRISPR babies were very unethically created in China. I'm extremely aware that these same capabilities have potentially incredible upsides and very real downsides. That's the same as every technology in the past, but this is happening so quickly that it's triggering a lot of anxieties. Governance, Responsibility, and Why Everyone Has a Role Jamie: The question now is: how do we optimise the benefits and minimise the harms? The short, unsexy word for that is governance. Governance is not just what governments do; it's what all of us do. That's why I try to write books, both fiction and nonfiction, to bring people into this story. If people “other” this story – if they say, “There's a technology revolution, it has nothing to do with me, I'm going to keep my head down” – I think that's dangerous. The way we're going to handle this as responsibly as possible is if everybody says, “I have some role. Maybe it's small, maybe it's big. The first step is I need to educate myself. Then I need to have conversations with people around me. I need to express my desires, wishes, and thoughts – with political leaders, organisations I'm part of, businesses.” That has to happen at every level. You're in the UK – you know the anti-slavery movement started with a handful of people in Cambridge and grew into a global movement. I really believe in the power of ideas, but ideas don't spread on their own. These are very human networks, and that's why writing, speaking, communicating – probably for every single person listening to this podcast – is so important. Jo: Mm, yeah. Fiction Like AI 2041 and Thinking Through the Issues Jo: Have you read AI 2041 by Kai-Fu Lee and Chen Qiufan? Jamie: No. I heard a bunch of their interviews when the book came out, but I haven't read it. Jo: I think that's another good one because it's fiction – a whole load of short stories. It came out a few years ago now, but the issues they cover in the stories, about different people in different countries – I remember one about deepfakes – make you think more about the topics and help you figure out where you stand. I think that's the issue right now: it's so complex, there are so many things. I'm generally positive about AI, but of course I don't want autonomous drone weapons, you know? The Messy Reality of “Bad” Technologies Jamie: Can I ask you about that? Because this is why it's so complicated. Like you, I think nobody wants autonomous killer drones anywhere in the world. But if you right now were the defence minister of Ukraine, and your children are being kidnapped, your country is being destroyed, you're fighting for your survival, you're getting attacked every night – and you're getting attacked by the Russians, who are investing more and more in autonomous killer robots – you kind of have two choices. You can say, “I'm going to surrender,” or, “I'm going to use what technology I have available to defend myself, and hopefully fight to either victory or some kind of stand-off.” That's what our societies did with nuclear weapons. Maybe not every American recognises that Churchill gave Britain's nuclear secrets to America as a way of greasing the wheels of the Anglo-American alliance during the Second World War – but that was our programme: we couldn't afford to lose that war, and we couldn't afford to let the Nazis get nuclear weapons before we did. So there's the abstract feeling of, “I'm against all war in the abstract. I'm against autonomous killer robots in the abstract.” But if I were the defence minister of Ukraine, I would say, “What will it take for us to build the weapons we can use to defend ourselves?” That's why all this stuff gets so complicated. And frankly, it's why the relationship between fiction and nonfiction is so important. If every novel had a situation where every character said, “Oh, I know exactly the right answer,” and then they just did the right answer and it was obviously right, it wouldn't make for great fiction. We're dealing with really complex humans. We have conflicting impulses. We're not perfect. Maybe there are no perfect answers – but how do we strive toward better rather than worse? That's the question. Jo: Absolutely. I don't want to get too political on things. How AI Is Changing the Writing Life Jo: Let's come back to authors. In terms of the creative process, the writing process, the research process, and the business of being an author – what are some of the ways that you already use AI tools, and some of the ways, given your futurist brain, that you think things are going to change for us? Jamie: Great question. I'll start with a little middle piece. I found you, Jo, through GPT-5. I asked ChatGPT, “I'm coming out with this book and I want to connect with podcasters who are a little different from the ones I've done in the past. I've been a guest on Joe Rogan twice and some of the bigger podcasts. Make me a list of really interesting people I can have great conversations with.” That's how I found you. So this is one reward of that process. Let me say that in the last year I've worked on three books, and I'll explain how my relationship with AI has changed over those books. Cleaning Up Citations (and Getting Burned) Jamie: First is the highly revised paperback edition of Superconvergence. When the hardback came out, I had – I don't normally work with research assistants because I like to dig into everything myself – but the one thing I do use a research assistant for is that I can't be bothered, when I'm writing something, to do the full Chicago-style footnote if I'm already referencing an academic paper. So I'd just put the URL as the footnote and then hire a research assistant and say, “Go to this URL and change it into a Chicago-style citation. That's it.” Unfortunately, my research assistant on the hardback used early-days ChatGPT for that work. He did the whole thing, came back, everything looked perfect. I said, “Wow, amazing job.” It was only later, as I was going through them, that I realised something like 50% of them were invented footnotes. It was very painful to go back and fix, and it took ten times more time. With the paperback edition, I didn't use AI that much, but I did say things like, “Here's all the information – generate a Chicago-style citation.” That was better. I noticed there were a few things where I stopped using the thesaurus function on Microsoft Word because I'd just put the whole paragraph into the AI and say, “Give me ten other options for this one word,” and it would be like a contextual thesaurus. That was pretty good. Talking to a Robot Pianist Character Jamie: Then, for my new novel Virtuoso, I was writing a character who is a futurist robot that plays the piano very beautifully – not just humanly, but almost finding new things in the music we've written and composing music that resonates with us. I described the actions of that robot in the novel, but I didn't describe the inner workings of the robot's mind. In thinking about that character, I realised I was the first science-fiction writer in history who could interrogate a machine about what it was “thinking” in a particular context. I had the most beautiful conversations with ChatGPT, where I would give scenarios and ask, “What are you thinking? What are you feeling in this context?” It was all background for that character, but it was truly profound. Co-Authoring The AI Ten Commandments with GPT-5 Jamie: Third, I have another book coming out in May in the United States. I gave a talk this summer at the Chautauqua Institution in upstate New York about AI and spirituality. I talked about the history of our human relationship with our technology, about how all our religious and spiritual traditions have deep technological underpinnings – certainly our Abrahamic religions are deeply connected to farming, and Protestantism to the printing press. Then I had a section about the role of AI in generating moral codes that would resonate with humans. Everybody went nuts for this talk, and I thought, “I think I'm going to write a book.” I decided to write it differently, with GPT-5 as my named co-author. The first thing I did was outline the entire book based on the talk, which I'd already spent a huge amount of time thinking about and organising. Then I did a full outline of the arguments and structures. Then I trained GPT-5 on my writing style. The way I did it – which I fully describe in the introduction to the book – was that I'd handle all the framing: the full introduction, the argument, the structure. But if there was a section where, for a few paragraphs, I was summarising a huge field of data, even something I knew well, I'd give GPT-5 the intro sentence and say, “In my writing style, prepare four paragraphs on this.” For example, I might write: “AI has the potential to see us humans like we humans see ant colonies.” Then I'd say, “Give me four paragraphs on the relationship between the individual and the collective in ant colonies.” I could have written those four paragraphs myself, but it would've taken a month to read the life's work of E.O. Wilson and then write them. GPT-5 wrote them in seconds or minutes, in its thinking mode. I'd then say, “It's not quite right – change this, change that,” and we'd go back and forth three or four times. Then I'd edit the whole thing and put it into the text. So this book that I could have written on my own in a year, I wrote a first draft of with GPT-5 as my named co-author in two days. The whole project will take about six months from start to finish, and I'm having massive human editing – multiple edits from me, plus a professional editor. It's not a magic AI button. But I feel strongly about listing GPT-5 as a co-author because I've written it differently than previous books. I'm a huge believer in the old-fashioned lone author struggling and suffering – that's in my novels, and in Virtuoso I explore that. But other forms are going to emerge, just like video games are a creative, artistic form deeply connected to technology. The novel hasn't been around forever – the current format is only a few centuries old – and forms are always changing. There are real opportunities for authors, and there will be so much crap flooding the market because everybody can write something and put it up on Amazon. But I think there will be a very special place for thoughtful human authors who have an idea of what humans do at our best, and who translate that into content other humans can enjoy. Traditional vs Indie: Why This Book Will Be Self-Published Jo: I'm interested – you mentioned that it's your named co-author. Is this book going through a traditional publisher, and what do they think about that? Or are you going to publish it yourself? Jamie: It's such a smart question. What I found quickly is that when you get to be an author later in your career, you have all the infrastructure – a track record, a fantastic agent, all of that. But there were two things that were really important to me here: I wanted to get this book out really fast – six months instead of a year and a half. It was essential to me to have GPT-5 listed as my co-author, because if it were just my name, I feel like it would be dishonest. Readers who are used to reading my books – I didn't want to present something different than what it was. I spoke with my agent, who I absolutely love, and she said that for this particular project it was going to be really hard in traditional publishing. So I did a huge amount of research, because I'd never done anything in the self-publishing world before. I looked at different models. There was one hybrid model that's basically the same as traditional, but you pay for the things the publisher would normally pay for. I ended up not doing that. Instead, I decided on a self-publishing route where I disaggregated the publishing process. I found three teams: one for producing the book, one for getting the book out into the world, and a smaller one for the audiobook. I still believe in traditional publishing – there's a lot of wonderful human value-add. But some works just don't lend themselves to traditional publishing. For this book, which is called The AI Ten Commandments, that's the path I've chosen. Jo: And when's that out? I think people will be interested. Jamie: April 26th. Those of us used to traditional publishing think, “I've finished the book, sold the proposal, it'll be out any day now,” and then it can be a year and a half. It's frustrating. With this, the process can be much faster because it's possible to control more of the variables. But the key – as I was saying – is to make sure it's as good a book as everything else you've written. It's great to speed up, but you don't want to compromise on quality. The Coming Flood of Excellent AI-Generated Work Jo: Yeah, absolutely. We're almost out of time, but I want to come back to your “flood of crap” and the “AI slop” idea that's going around. Because you are working with GPT-5 – and I do as well, and I work with Claude and Gemini – and right now there are still issues. Like you said about referencing, there are still hallucinations, though fewer. But fast-forward two, five years: it's not a flood of crap. It's a flood of excellent. It's a flood of stuff that's better than us. Jamie: We're humans. It's better than us in certain ways. If you have farm machinery, it's better than us at certain aspects of farming. I'm a true humanist. I think there will be lots of things machines do better than us, but there will be tons of things we do better than them. There's a reason humans still care about chess, even though machines can beat humans at chess. Some people are saying things I fully disagree with, like this concept of AGI – artificial general intelligence – where machines do everything better than humans. I've summarised my position in seven letters: “AGI is BS.” The only way you can believe in AGI in that sense is if your concept of what a human is and what a human mind is is so narrow that you think it's just a narrow range of analytical skills. We are so much more than that. Humans represent almost four billion years of embodied evolution. There's so much about ourselves that we don't know. As incredible as these machines are and will become, there will always be wonderful things humans can do that are different from machines. What I always tell people is: whatever you're doing, don't be a second-rate machine. Be a first-rate human. If you're doing something and a machine is doing that thing much better than you, then shift to something where your unique capacities as a human give you the opportunity to do something better. So yes, I totally agree that the quality of AI-generated stuff will get better. But I think the most creative and successful humans will be the ones who say, “I recognise that this is creating new opportunities, and I'm going to insert my core humanity to do something magical and new.” People are “othering” these technologies, but the technologies themselves are magnificent human-generated artefacts. They're not alien UFOs that landed here. It's a scary moment for creatives, no doubt, because there are things all of us did in the past that machines can now do really well. But this is the moment where the most creative people ask themselves, “What does it mean for me to be a great human?” The pat answers won't apply. In my Virtuoso novel I explore that a lot. The idea that “machines don't do creativity” – they will do incredible creativity; it just won't be exactly human creativity. We will be potentially huge beneficiaries of these capabilities, but we really have to believe in and invest in the magic of our core humanity. Where to Find Jamie and His Books Jo: Brilliant. So where can people find you and your books online? Jamie: Thank you so much for asking. My website is jamiemetzl.com – and my books are available everywhere. Jo: Fantastic. Thanks so much for your time, Jamie. That was great. Jamie: Thank you, Joanna.The post Writing The Future, And Being More Human In An Age of AI With Jamie Metzl first appeared on The Creative Penn.

Artificial intelligence's rapid rise is causing anxiety for many, as it is already transforming the way we live and work. The concern is particularly high among young generations, who are wondering how it will change the labor market in the coming decades. But parents are also seeing the dangers AI and chatbots can pose as their children become more familiar with the technology. Jamie Metzl, a technology futurist and author of "Superconvergence: How the Genetics, Biotech, and AI Revolutions Will Transform Our Lives, Work, and World," recently spoke with FOX News Rundown's Lisa Brady to discuss AI and address some of the issues that make Americans nervous. Metzl delves into AI's evolution from its origins to today's consumer applications, and how future advancements may lead to job losses, reduced privacy, and even safety risks. He also talks about the good it can bring, especially in medicine. We often have to cut interviews short during the week, but we thought you might like to hear the full interview. Today on Fox News Rundown Extra, we will share our entire interview with AI expert Jamie Metzl. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Artificial intelligence's rapid rise is causing anxiety for many, as it is already transforming the way we live and work. The concern is particularly high among young generations, who are wondering how it will change the labor market in the coming decades. But parents are also seeing the dangers AI and chatbots can pose as their children become more familiar with the technology. Jamie Metzl, a technology futurist and author of "Superconvergence: How the Genetics, Biotech, and AI Revolutions Will Transform Our Lives, Work, and World," recently spoke with FOX News Rundown's Lisa Brady to discuss AI and address some of the issues that make Americans nervous. Metzl delves into AI's evolution from its origins to today's consumer applications, and how future advancements may lead to job losses, reduced privacy, and even safety risks. He also talks about the good it can bring, especially in medicine. We often have to cut interviews short during the week, but we thought you might like to hear the full interview. Today on Fox News Rundown Extra, we will share our entire interview with AI expert Jamie Metzl. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Artificial intelligence's rapid rise is causing anxiety for many, as it is already transforming the way we live and work. The concern is particularly high among young generations, who are wondering how it will change the labor market in the coming decades. But parents are also seeing the dangers AI and chatbots can pose as their children become more familiar with the technology. Jamie Metzl, a technology futurist and author of "Superconvergence: How the Genetics, Biotech, and AI Revolutions Will Transform Our Lives, Work, and World," recently spoke with FOX News Rundown's Lisa Brady to discuss AI and address some of the issues that make Americans nervous. Metzl delves into AI's evolution from its origins to today's consumer applications, and how future advancements may lead to job losses, reduced privacy, and even safety risks. He also talks about the good it can bring, especially in medicine. We often have to cut interviews short during the week, but we thought you might like to hear the full interview. Today on Fox News Rundown Extra, we will share our entire interview with AI expert Jamie Metzl. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Democrats have scored major victories in key off-year elections, and democratic socialist candidate Zohran Mamdani's mayoral win in New York City could be shaking up the party's direction. Meanwhile, Republicans fell short in New Jersey and Virginia but are already looking ahead to the midterms. New York Republican Congressman Mike Lawler joins the Rundown to discuss what these results reveal about voter trends, how the GOP plans to regroup, plus the latest on the ongoing government shutdown as both parties face pressure to strike a deal. Artificial intelligence is rapidly transforming the way we live and work, sparking both excitement and concern about its impact on society, especially among younger generations growing up alongside it. Jamie Metzl, a technology futurist and author of "Superconvergence: How the Genetics, Biotech, and AI Revolutions Will Transform Our Lives, Work, and World," delves into AI's evolution from its origins to today's consumer applications. He also addresses the anxiety AI generates regarding job losses, privacy, and safety. Plus, commentary from commentary from Will Cain, host of FOX News Channel's The Will Cain Show and host of Will Cain Country on FOX News Audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Democrats have scored major victories in key off-year elections, and democratic socialist candidate Zohran Mamdani's mayoral win in New York City could be shaking up the party's direction. Meanwhile, Republicans fell short in New Jersey and Virginia but are already looking ahead to the midterms. New York Republican Congressman Mike Lawler joins the Rundown to discuss what these results reveal about voter trends, how the GOP plans to regroup, plus the latest on the ongoing government shutdown as both parties face pressure to strike a deal. Artificial intelligence is rapidly transforming the way we live and work, sparking both excitement and concern about its impact on society, especially among younger generations growing up alongside it. Jamie Metzl, a technology futurist and author of "Superconvergence: How the Genetics, Biotech, and AI Revolutions Will Transform Our Lives, Work, and World," delves into AI's evolution from its origins to today's consumer applications. He also addresses the anxiety AI generates regarding job losses, privacy, and safety. Plus, commentary from commentary from Will Cain, host of FOX News Channel's The Will Cain Show and host of Will Cain Country on FOX News Audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Democrats have scored major victories in key off-year elections, and democratic socialist candidate Zohran Mamdani's mayoral win in New York City could be shaking up the party's direction. Meanwhile, Republicans fell short in New Jersey and Virginia but are already looking ahead to the midterms. New York Republican Congressman Mike Lawler joins the Rundown to discuss what these results reveal about voter trends, how the GOP plans to regroup, plus the latest on the ongoing government shutdown as both parties face pressure to strike a deal. Artificial intelligence is rapidly transforming the way we live and work, sparking both excitement and concern about its impact on society, especially among younger generations growing up alongside it. Jamie Metzl, a technology futurist and author of "Superconvergence: How the Genetics, Biotech, and AI Revolutions Will Transform Our Lives, Work, and World," delves into AI's evolution from its origins to today's consumer applications. He also addresses the anxiety AI generates regarding job losses, privacy, and safety. Plus, commentary from commentary from Will Cain, host of FOX News Channel's The Will Cain Show and host of Will Cain Country on FOX News Audio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

[00:18:26] Allen West   [00:36:50] Jamie Metzl   [00:55:13] Rep. Tony Gonzales   [01:13:37] Andrew Weiss   [01:32:00] Seth Barron Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tomi Lahren dissects the current chaos unfolding in Washington D.C. as Trump steps in to restore the city and liberals respond by calling him a “dictator.” They're fi ghting crime with more crime and pretending it's Justice. Former Clinton NSC Staffer, Jamie Metzl joins to weigh in on his party's actions. Then, Democrats prove they'd rather live in dangerous, crime-ridden cities than ever admit Trump might be right. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My fellow pro-growth/progress/abundance Up Wingers,Once-science-fiction advancements like AI, gene editing, and advanced biotechnology have finally arrived, and they're here to stay. These technologies have seemingly set us on a course towards a brand new future for humanity, one we can hardly even picture today. But progress doesn't happen overnight, and it isn't the result of any one breakthrough.As Jamie Metzl explains in his new book, Superconvergence: How the Genetics, Biotech, and AI Revolutions will Transform our Lives, Work, and World, tech innovations work alongside and because of one another, bringing about the future right under our noses.Today on Faster, Please! — The Podcast, I chat with Metzl about how humans have been radically reshaping the world around them since their very beginning, and what the latest and most disruptive technologies mean for the not-too-distant future.Metzl is a senior fellow of the Atlantic Council and a faculty member of NextMed Health. He has previously held a series of positions in the US government, and was appointed to the World Health Organization's advisory committee on human genome editing in 2019. He is the author of several books, including two sci-fi thrillers and his international bestseller, Hacking Darwin.In This Episode* Unstoppable and unpredictable (1:54)* Normalizing the extraordinary (9:46)* Engineering intelligence (13:53)* Distrust of disruption (19:44)* Risk tolerance (24:08)* What is a “newnimal”? (13:11)* Inspired by curiosity (33:42)Below is a lightly edited transcript of our conversation. Unstoppable and unpredictable (1:54)The name of the game for all of this . . . is to ask “What are the things that we can do to increase the odds of a more positive story and decrease the odds of a more negative story?”Pethokoukis: Are you telling a story of unstoppable technological momentum or are you telling a story kind of like A Christmas Carol, of a future that could be if we do X, Y, and Z, but no guarantees?Metzl: The future of technological progress is like the past: It is unstoppable, but that doesn't mean it's predetermined. The path that we have gone over the last 12,000 years, from the domestication of crops to building our civilizations, languages, industrialization — it's a bad metaphor now, but — this train is accelerating. It's moving faster and faster, so that's not up for grabs. It is not up for grabs whether we are going to have the capacities to engineer novel intelligence and re-engineer life — we are doing both of those things now in the early days.What is up for grabs is how these revolutions will play out, and there are better and worse scenarios that we can imagine. The name of the game for all of this, the reason why I do the work that I do, why I write the books that I write, is to ask “What are the things that we can do to increase the odds of a more positive story and decrease the odds of a more negative story?”Progress has been sort of unstoppable for all that time, though, of course, fits and starts and periods of stagnation —— But when you look back at those fits and starts — the size of the Black Plague or World War II, or wiping out Berlin, and Dresden, and Tokyo, and Hiroshima, and Nagasaki — in spite of all of those things, it's one-directional. Our technologies have gotten more powerful. We've developed more capacities, greater ability to manipulate the world around us, so there will be fits and starts but, as I said, this train is moving. That's why these conversations are so important, because there's so much that we can, and I believe must, do now.There's a widely held opinion that progress over the past 50 years has been slower than people might have expected in the late 1960s, but we seem to have some technologies now for which the momentum seems pretty unstoppable.Of course, a lot of people thought, after ChatGPT came out, that superintelligence would happen within six months. That didn't happen. After CRISPR arrived, I'm sure there were lots of people who expected miracle cures right away.What makes you think that these technologies will look a lot different, and our world will look a lot different than they do right now by decade's end?They certainly will look a lot different, but there's also a lot of hype around these technologies. You use the word “superintelligence,” which is probably a good word. I don't like the words “artificial intelligence,” and I have a six-letter framing for what I believe about AGI — artificial general intelligence — and that is: AGI is BS. We have no idea what human intelligence is, if we define our own intelligence so narrowly that it's just this very narrow form of thinking and then we say, “Wow, we have these machines that are mining the entirety of digitized human cultural history, and wow, they're so brilliant, they can write poems — poems in languages that our ancestors have invented based on the work of humans.” So we humans need to be very careful not to belittle ourselves.But we're already seeing, across the board, if you say, “Is CRISPR on its own going to fundamentally transform all of life?” The answer to that is absolutely no. My last book was about genetic engineering. If genetic engineering is a pie, genome editing is a slice and CRISPR is just a tiny little sliver of that slice. But the reason why my new book is called Superconvergence, the entire thesis is that all of these technologies inspire, and influence, and are embedded in each other. We had the agricultural revolution 12,000 years ago, as I mentioned. That's what led to these other innovations like civilization, like writing, and then the ancient writing codes are the foundation of computer codes which underpin our machine learning and AI systems that are allowing us to unlock secrets of the natural world.People are imagining that AI equals ChatGPT, but that's really not the case (AI equals ChatGPT like electricity equals the power station). The story of AI is empowering us to do all of these other things. As a general-purpose technology, already AI is developing the capacity to help us just do basic things faster. Computer coding is the archetypal example of that. Over the last couple of years, the speed of coding has improved by about 50 percent for the most advanced human coders, and as we code, our coding algorithms are learning about the process of coding. We're just laying a foundation for all of these other things.That's what I call “boring AI.” People are imagining exciting AI, like there's a magic AI button and you just press it and AI cures cancer. That's not how it's going to work. Boring AI is going to be embedded in human resource management. It's going to be embedded just giving us a lot of capabilities to do things better, faster than we've done them before. It doesn't mean that AIs are going to replace us. There are a lot of things that humans do that machines can just do better than we are. That's why most of us aren't doing hunting, or gathering, or farming, because we developed machines and other technologies to feed us with much less human labor input, and we have used that reallocation of our time and energy to write books and invent other things. That's going to happen here.The name of the game for us humans, there's two things: One is figuring out what does it mean to be a great human and over-index on that, and two, lay the foundation so that these multiple overlapping revolutions, as they play out in multiple fields, can be governed wisely. That is the name of the game. So when people say, “Is it going to change our lives?” I think people are thinking of it in the wrong way. This shirt that I'm wearing, this same shirt five years from now, you'll say, “Well, is there AI in your shirt?” — because it doesn't look like AI — and what I'm going to say is “Yes, in the manufacturing of this thread, in the management of the supply chain, in figuring out who gets to go on vacation, when, in the company that's making these buttons.” It's all these little things. People will just call it progress. People are imagining magic AI, all of these interwoven technologies will just feel like accelerating progress, and that will just feel like life.Normalizing the extraordinary (9:46)20, 30 years ago we didn't have the internet. I think things get so normalized that this just feels like life.What you're describing is a technology that economists would call a general-purpose technology. It's a technology embedded in everything, it's everywhere in the economy, much as electricity.What you call “boring AI,” the way I think about it is: I was just reading a Wall Street Journal story about Applebee's talking about using AI for more efficient customer loyalty programs, and they would use machine vision to look at their tables to see if they were cleaned well enough between customers. That, to people, probably doesn't seem particularly science-fictional. It doesn't seem world-changing. Of course, faster growth and a more productive economy is built on those little things, but I guess I would still call those “boring AI.”What to me definitely is not boring AI is the sort of combinatorial aspect that you're talking about where you're talking about AI helping the scientific discovery process and then interweaving with other technologies in kind of the classic Paul Romer combinatorial way.I think a lot of people, if they look back at their lives 20 or 30 years ago, they would say, “Okay, more screen time, but probably pretty much the same.”I don't think they would say that. 20, 30 years ago we didn't have the internet. I think things get so normalized that this just feels like life. If you had told ourselves 30 years ago, “You're going to have access to all the world's knowledge in your pocket.” You and I are — based on appearances, although you look so youthful — roughly the same age, so you probably remember, “Hurry, it's long distance! Run down the stairs!”We live in this radical science-fiction world that has been normalized, and even the things that you are mentioning, if you see open up your newsfeed and you see that there's this been incredible innovation in cancer care, and whether it's gene therapy, or autoimmune stuff, or whatever, you're not thinking, “Oh, that was AI that did that,” because you read the thing and it's like “These researchers at University of X,” but it is AI, it is electricity, it is agriculture. It's because our ancestors learned how to plant seeds and grow plants where you're stationed and not have to do hunting and gathering that you have had this innovation that is keeping your grandmother alive for another 10 years.What you're describing is what I call “magical AI,” and that's not how it works. Some of the stuff is magical: the Jetsons stuff, and self-driving cars, these things that are just autopilot airplanes, we live in a world of magical science fiction and then whenever something shows up, we think, “Oh yeah, no big deal.” We had ChatGPT, now ChatGPT, no big deal?If you had taken your grandparents, your parents, and just said, “Hey, I'm going to put you behind a screen. You're going to have a conversation with something, with a voice, and you're going to do it for five hours,” and let's say they'd never heard of computers and it was all this pleasant voice. In the end they said, “You just had a five-hour conversation with a non-human, and it told you about everything and all of human history, and it wrote poems, and it gave you a recipe for kale mush or whatever you're eating,” you'd say, “Wow!” I think that we are living in that sci-fi world. It's going to get faster, but every innovation, we're not going to say, “Oh, AI did that.” We're just going to say, “Oh, that happened.”Engineering intelligence (13:53)I don't like the word “artificial intelligence” because artificial intelligence means “artificial human intelligence.” This is machine intelligence, which is inspired by the products of human intelligence, but it's a different form of intelligence . . .I sometimes feel in my own writing, and as I peruse the media, like I read a lot more about AI, the digital economy, information technology, and I feel like I certainly write much less about genetic engineering, biotechnology, which obviously is a key theme in your book. What am I missing right now that's happening that may seem normal five years from now, 10 years, but if I were to read about it now or understand it now, I'd think, “Well, that is kind of amazing.”My answer to that is kind of everything. As I said before, we are at the very beginning of this new era of life on earth where one species, among the billions that have ever lived, suddenly has the increasing ability to engineer novel intelligence and re-engineer life.We have evolved by the Darwinian processes of random mutation and natural selection, and we are beginning a new phase of life, a new Cambrian Revolution, where we are creating, certainly with this novel intelligence that we are birthing — I don't like the word “artificial intelligence” because artificial intelligence means “artificial human intelligence.” This is machine intelligence, which is inspired by the products of human intelligence, but it's a different form of intelligence, just like dolphin intelligence is a different form of intelligence than human intelligence, although we are related because of our common mammalian route. That's what's happening here, and our brain function is roughly the same as it's been, certainly at least for tens of thousands of years, but the AI machine intelligence is getting smarter, and we're just experiencing it.It's become so normalized that you can even ask that question. We live in a world where we have these AI systems that are just doing more and cooler stuff every day: driving cars, you talked about discoveries, we have self-driving laboratories that are increasingly autonomous. We have machines that are increasingly writing their own code. We live in a world where machine intelligence has been boxed in these kinds of places like computers, but very soon it's coming out into the world. The AI revolution, and machine-learning revolution, and the robotics revolution are going to be intersecting relatively soon in meaningful ways.AI has advanced more quickly than robotics because it hasn't had to navigate the real world like we have. That's why I'm always so mindful of not denigrating who we are and what we stand for. Four billion years of evolution is a long time. We've learned a lot along the way, so it's going to be hard to put the AI and have it out functioning in the world, interacting in this world that we have largely, but not exclusively, created.But that's all what's coming. Some specific things: 30 years from now, my guess is many people who are listening to this podcast will be fornicating regularly with robots, and it'll be totally normal and comfortable.. . . I think some people are going to be put off by that.Yeah, some people will be put off and some people will be turned on. All I'm saying is it's going to be a mix of different —Jamie, what I would like to do is be 90 years old and be able to still take long walks, be sharp, not have my knee screaming at me. That's what I would like. Can I expect that?I think this can help, but you have to decide how to behave with your personalized robot.That's what I want. I'm looking for the achievement of human suffering. Will there be a world of less human suffering?We live in that world of less human suffering! If you just look at any metric of anything, this is the best time to be alive, and it's getting better and better. . . We're living longer, we're living healthier, we're better educated, we're more informed, we have access to more and better food. This is by far the best time to be alive, and if we don't massively screw it up, and frankly, even if we do, to a certain extent, it'll continue to get better.I write about this in Superconvergence, we're moving in healthcare from our world of generalized healthcare based on population averages to precision healthcare, to predictive and preventive. In education, some of us, like myself, you have had access to great education, but not everybody has that. We're going to have access to fantastic education, personalized education everywhere for students based on their own styles of learning, and capacities, and native languages. This is a wonderful, exciting time.We're going to get all of those things that we can hope for and we're going to get a lot of things that we can't even imagine. And there are going to be very real potential dangers, and if we want to have the good story, as I keep saying, and not have the bad story, now is the time where we need to start making the real investments.Distrust of disruption (19:44)Your job is the disruption of this thing that's come before. . . stopping the advance of progress is just not one of our options.I think some people would, when they hear about all these changes, they'd think what you're telling them is “the bad story.”I just talked about fornicating with robots, it's the bad story?Yeah, some people might find that bad story. But listen, we live at an age where people have recoiled against the disruption of trade, for instance. People are very allergic to the idea of economic disruption. I think about all the debate we had over stem cell therapy back in the early 2000s, 2002. There certainly is going to be a certain contingent that, what they're going to hear what you're saying is: you're going to change what it means to be a human. You're going to change what it means to have a job. I don't know if I want all this. I'm not asking for all this.And we've seen where that pushback has greatly changed, for instance, how we trade with other nations. Are you concerned that that pushback could create regulatory or legislative obstacles to the kind of future you're talking about?All of those things, and some of that pushback, frankly, is healthy. These are fundamental changes, but those people who are pushing back are benchmarking their own lives to the world that they were born into and, in most cases, without recognizing how radical those lives already are, if the people you're talking about are hunter-gatherers in some remote place who've not gone through domestication of agriculture, and industrialization, and all of these kinds of things, that's like, wow, you're going from being this little hunter-gatherer tribe in the middle of Atlantis and all of a sudden you're going to be in a world of gene therapy and shifting trading patterns.But the people who are saying, “Well, my job as a computer programmer, as a whatever, is going to get disrupted,” your job is the disruption. Your job is the disruption of this thing that's come before. As I said at the start of our conversation, stopping the advance of progress is just not one of our options.We could do it, and societies have done it before, and they've lost their economies, they've lost their vitality. Just go to Europe, Europe is having this crisis now because for decades they saw their economy and their society, frankly, as a museum to the past where they didn't want to change, they didn't want to think about the implications of new technologies and new trends. It's why I am just back from Italy. It's wonderful, I love visiting these little farms where they're milking the goats like they've done for centuries and making cheese they've made for centuries, but their economies are shrinking with incredible rapidity where ours and the Chinese are growing.Everybody wants to hold onto the thing that they know. It's a very natural thing, and I'm not saying we should disregard those views, but the societies that have clung too tightly to the way things were tend to lose their vitality and, ultimately, their freedom. That's what you see in the war with Russia and Ukraine. Let's just say there are people in Ukraine who said, “Let's not embrace new disruptive technologies.” Their country would disappear.We live in a competitive world where you can opt out like Europe opted out solely because they lived under the US security umbrella. And now that President Trump is threatening the withdrawal of that security umbrella, Europe is being forced to race not into the future, but to race into the present.Risk tolerance (24:08). . . experts, scientists, even governments don't have any more authority to make these decisions about the future of our species than everybody else.I certainly understand that sort of analogy, and compared to Europe, we look like a far more risk-embracing kind of society. Yet I wonder how resilient that attitude — because obviously I would've said the same thing maybe in 1968 about the United States, and yet a decade later we stopped building nuclear reactors — I wonder how resilient we are to anything going wrong, like something going on with an AI system where somebody dies. Or something that looks like a cure that kills someone. Or even, there seems to be this nuclear power revival, how resilient would that be to any kind of accident? How resilient do you think are we right now to the inevitable bumps along the way?It depends on who you mean by “we.” Let's just say “we” means America because a lot of these dawns aren't the first ones. You talked about gene therapy. This is the second dawn of gene therapy. The first dawn came crashing into a halt in 1999 when a young man at the University of Pennsylvania died as a result of an error carried out by the treating physicians using what had seemed like a revolutionary gene therapy. It's the second dawn of AI after there was a lot of disappointment. There will be accidents . . .Let's just say, hypothetically, there's an accident . . . some kind of self-driving car is going to kill somebody or whatever. And let's say there's a political movement, the Luddites that is successful, and let's just say that every self-driving car in America is attacked and destroyed by mobs and that all of the companies that are making these cars are no longer able to produce or deploy those cars. That's going to be bad for self-driving cars in America — it's not going to be bad for self-driving cars. . . They're going to be developed in some other place. There are lots of societies that have lost their vitality. That's the story of every empire that we read about in history books: there was political corruption, sclerosis. That's very much an option.I'm a patriotic American and I hope America leads these revolutions as long as we can maintain our values for many, many centuries to come, but for that to happen, we need to invest in that. Part of that is investing now so that people don't feel that they are powerless victims of these trends they have no influence over.That's why all of my work is about engaging people in the conversation about how do we deploy these technologies? Because experts, scientists, even governments don't have any more authority to make these decisions about the future of our species than everybody else. What we need to do is have broad, inclusive conversations, engage people in all kinds of processes, including governance and political processes. That's why I write the books that I do. That's why I do podcast interviews like this. My Joe Rogan interviews have reached many tens of millions of people — I know you told me before that you're much bigger than Joe Rogan, so I imagine this interview will reach more than that.I'm quite aspirational.Yeah, but that's the name of the game. With my last book tour, in the same week I spoke to the top scientists at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory and the seventh and eighth graders at the Solomon Schechter Hebrew Academy of New Jersey, and they asked essentially the exact same questions about the future of human genetic engineering. These are basic human questions that everybody can understand and everybody can and should play a role and have a voice in determining the big decisions and the future of our species.To what extent is the future you're talking about dependent on continued AI advances? If this is as good as it gets, does that change the outlook at all?One, there's no conceivable way that this is as good as it gets because even if the LLMs, large language models — it's not the last word on algorithms, there will be many other philosophies of algorithms, but let's just say that LLMs are the end of the road, that we've just figured out this one thing, and that's all we ever have. Just using the technologies that we have in more creative ways is going to unleash incredible progress. But it's certain that we will continue to have innovations across the field of computer science, in energy production, in algorithm development, in the ways that we have to generate and analyze massive data pools. So we don't need any more to have the revolution that's already started, but we will have more.Politics always, ultimately, can trump everything if we get it wrong. But even then, even if . . . let's just say that the United States becomes an authoritarian, totalitarian hellhole. One, there will be technological innovation like we're seeing now even in China, and two, these are decentralized technologies, so free people elsewhere — maybe it'll be Europe, maybe it'll be Africa or whatever — will deploy these technologies and use them. These are agnostic technologies. They don't have, as I said at the start, an inevitable outcome, and that's why the name of the game for us is to weave our best values into this journey.What is a “newnimal”? (30:11). . . we don't live in a state of nature, we live in a world that has been massively bio-engineered by our ancestors, and that's just the thing that we call life.When I was preparing for this interview and my research assistant was preparing, I said, “We have to have a question about bio-engineered new animals.” One, because I couldn't pronounce your name for these . . . newminals? So pronounce that name and tell me why we want these.It's a made up word, so you can pronounce it however you want. “Newnimals” is as good as anything.We already live in a world of bio-engineered animals. Go back 50,000 years, find me a dog, find me a corn that is recognizable, find me rice, find me wheat, find me a cow that looks remotely like the cow in your local dairy. We already live in that world, it's just people assume that our bioengineered world is some kind of state of nature. We already live in a world where the size of a broiler chicken has tripled over the last 70 years. What we have would have been unrecognizable to our grandparents.We are already genetically modifying animals through breeding, and now we're at the beginning of wanting to have whatever those same modifications are, whether it's producing more milk, producing more meat, living in hotter environments and not dying, or whatever it is that we're aiming for in these animals that we have for a very long time seen not as ends in themselves, but means to the alternate end of our consumption.We're now in the early stages xenotransplantation, modifying the hearts, and livers, and kidneys of pigs so they can be used for human transplantation. I met one of the women who has received — and seems to so far to be thriving — a genetically modified pig kidney. We have 110,000 people in the United States on the waiting list for transplant organs. I really want these people not just to survive, but to survive and thrive. That's another area we can grow.Right now . . . in the world, we slaughter about 93 billion land animals per year. We consume 200 million metric tons of fish. That's a lot of murder, that's a lot of risk of disease. It's a lot of deforestation and destruction of the oceans. We can already do this, but if and when we can grow bioidentical animal products at scale without having all of these negative externalities of whether it's climate change, environmental change, cruelty, deforestation, increased pandemic risk, what a wonderful thing to do!So we have these technologies and you mentioned that people are worried about them, but the reason people are worried about them is they're imagining that right now we live in some kind of unfettered state of nature and we're going to ruin it. But that's why I say we don't live in a state of nature, we live in a world that has been massively bio-engineered by our ancestors, and that's just the thing that we call life.Inspired by curiosity (33:42). . . the people who I love and most admire are the people who are just insatiably curious . . .What sort of forward thinkers, or futurists, or strategic thinkers of the past do you model yourself on, do you think are still worth reading, inspired you?Oh my God, so many, and the people who I love and most admire are the people who are just insatiably curious, who are saying, “I'm going to just look at the world, I'm going to collect data, and I know that everybody says X, but it may be true, it may not be true.” That is the entire history of science. That's Galileo, that's Charles Darwin, who just went around and said, “Hey, with an open mind, how am I going to look at the world and come up with theses?” And then he thought, “Oh s**t, this story that I'm coming up with for how life advances is fundamentally different from what everybody in my society believes and organizes their lives around.” Meaning, in my mind, that's the model, and there are so many people, and that's the great thing about being human.That's what's so exciting about this moment is that everybody has access to these super-empowered tools. We have eight billion humans, but about two billion of those people are just kind of locked out because of crappy education, and poor water sanitation, electricity. We're on the verge of having everybody who has a smartphone has the possibility of getting a world-class personalized education in their own language. How many new innovations will we have when little kids who were in slums in India, or in Pakistan, or in Nairobi, or wherever who have promise can educate themselves, and grow up and cure cancers, or invent new machines, or new algorithms. This is pretty exciting.The summary of the people from the past, they're kind of like the people in the present that I admire the most, are the people who are just insatiably curious and just learning, and now we have a real opportunity so that everybody can be their own Darwin.On sale everywhere The Conservative Futurist: How To Create the Sci-Fi World We Were PromisedMicro Reads▶ Economics* AI Hype Is Proving to Be a Solow's Paradox - Bberg Opinion* Trump Considers Naming Next Fed Chair Early in Bid to Undermine Powell - WSJ* Who Needs the G7? - PS* Advances in AI will boost productivity, living standards over time - Dallas Fed* Industrial Policy via Venture Capital - SSRN* Economic Sentiment and the Role of the Labor Market - St. Louis Fed▶ Business* AI valuations are verging on the unhinged - Economist* Nvidia shares hit record high on renewed AI optimism - FT* OpenAI, Microsoft Rift Hinges on How Smart AI Can Get - WSJ* Takeaways From Hard Fork's Interview With OpenAI's Sam Altman - NYT* Thatcher's legacy endures in Labour's industrial strategy - FT* Reddit vows to stay human to emerge a winner from artificial intelligence - FT▶ Policy/Politics* Anthropic destroyed millions of print books to build its AI models - Ars* Don't Let Silicon Valley Move Fast and Break Children's Minds - NYT Opinion* Is DOGE doomed to fail? Some experts are ready to call it. - Ars* The US is failing its green tech ‘Sputnik moment' - FT▶ AI/Digital* Future of Work with AI Agents: Auditing Automation and Augmentation Potential across the U.S. Workforce - Arxiv* Is the Fed Ready for an AI Economy? - WSJ Opinion* How Much Energy Does Your AI Prompt Use? I Went to a Data Center to Find Out. - WSJ* Meta Poaches Three OpenAI Researchers - WSJ* AI Agents Are Getting Better at Writing Code—and Hacking It as Well - Wired* Exploring the Capabilities of the Frontier Large Language Models for Nuclear Energy Research - Arxiv▶ Biotech/Health* Google's new AI will help researchers understand how our genes work - MIT* Does using ChatGPT change your brain activity? Study sparks debate - Nature* We cure cancer with genetic engineering but ban it on the farm. - ImmunoLogic* ChatGPT and OCD are a dangerous combo - Vox▶ Clean Energy/Climate* Is It Too Soon for Ocean-Based Carbon Credits? - Heatmap* The AI Boom Can Give Rooftop Solar a New Pitch - Bberg Opinion▶ Robotics/Drones/AVs* Tesla's Robotaxi Launch Shows Google's Waymo Is Worth More Than $45 Billion - WSJ* OpenExo: An open-source modular exoskeleton to augment human function - Science Robotics▶ Space/Transportation* Bezos and Blue Origin Try to Capitalize on Trump-Musk Split - WSJ* Giant asteroid could crash into moon in 2032, firing debris towards Earth - The Guardian▶ Up Wing/Down Wing* New Yorkers Vote to Make Their Housing Shortage Worse - WSJ* We Need More Millionaires and Billionaires in Latin America - Bberg Opinion▶ Substacks/Newsletters* Student visas are a critical pipeline for high-skilled, highly-paid talent - AgglomerationsState Power Without State Capacity - Breakthrough JournalFaster, Please! is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fasterplease.substack.com/subscribe

[00:00:00] Jamie Metzl [00:18:26] Allen West [00:36:50] Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib [01:13:36] Michael Rubin [01:32:00] Jennifer Sey Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As Elon Musk steps back from government, the White House promises to work on enacting his DOGE cuts under the President's big, beautiful bill [00:18:26] Jamie Metzl [00:36:50] Marc Thiessen [00:55:15] Josh Kraushaar [01:13:38] Mark Goldfeder [01:32:00] Kurt Volker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

[00:00:00] Rep. Jason Crow (D-CO) [00:18:26] Jamie Metzl [00:36:50] Marc Thiessen [00:55:12] Chris Sununu [01:13:36] Bret Baier [01:24:46] Rep. Byron Donalds [01:32:00] Lee Zeldin Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

[00:09:40] Alina Habba [00:18:26] Allen West [00:36:50] Jamie Metzl [00:55:13] Joel Freeman [01:13:36] Kid Rock [01:22:55] Bryan Johnson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Fmr. National Security Council official under President Clinton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of Looking Outside we're going back to the past and into the future - exploring the biggest transformative breakthroughs in science and technology that have and are transforming civilizations and societal values. Historian and futurist Jamie Metzl joins us to step into the world of science innovation, and equally to take a step back to see the bigger picture of human evolution. A leading voice in science and medicine, Jamie shares how our biological limitations are also our greatest strength – we continue to enhance ourselves, and our way of life, through technology, in order to to adapt to future environments. Emerging breakthroughs however, Jamie says, should not be viewed in isolation but in the context of converging factors, considering their negative consequences and their unforeseen upsides, based on the bigger ecosystem of interconnected industries. We no longer live in a ‘natural world' and there is no going back to the ‘way things were', so we must accept that change is a part of our human future.----------More:Looking Outside podcast www.looking-outside.comConnect with host, Jo Lepore on LinkedIn & XJamie Metzl jamiemetzl.comFollow Jamie on YouTube & X & LinkedInGrab a copy of Jamie's book SuperconvergenceCheck out his other books on Amazon----------⭐ Follow & rate the show - it makes a difference!----------Looking Outside is a podcast exploring fresh perspectives of familiar topics. Hosted by its creator, futurist and marketer, Jo Lepore. New episodes every 2 weeks. Never the same topic.All views are that of the host and guests and don't necessarily reflect those of their employers. Copyright 2025. Theme songs by Azteca X.

[00:18:26] Rep. Burgess Owens [00:36:50] Jamie Metzl [00:55:13] Tyler Fischer [01:13:36] Michael Goodwin [01:32:00] Matthew Continetti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The massive artificial intelligence infrastructure project, Stargate, received a significant boost from President Trump this week. On his second day, Trump praised OpenAI, Oracle, and SoftBank for their collaboration and plan to invest $500 billion in America's artificial intelligence infrastructure over the next few years. Jamie Metzl, who served on the National Security Council during the Clinton administration and is an AI expert, joined host Chris Foster to break down what this substantial investment in AI means for Americans and our country's dominance in the field. Metzl also discussed AI's growing potential in the health industry and the military while raising concerns that regulations or guardrails for the technology may not be sufficient. We often have to cut interviews short during the week, but we thought you might like to hear the full interview. Today on Fox News Rundown Extra, we will share our entire interview with AI expert Jamie Metzl. This will allow you to hear more about his perspective on where AI is headed and how it will inevitably impact our lives. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

President Trump's Border Czar Tom Homan has promised swift action on deporting violent criminal migrants. Many critics of the plan are saying that the logistics of carrying out the deportations will be costly and time-consuming, while backers of the plan say that the cost to keep illegal migrants here will outweigh deportations. The President has also ordered U.S. troops to the Southern Border to secure crossings and combat Mexican drug cartels. Florida Congressman Carlos Gimenez (R) joins the Rundown to discuss how Congress can work to help the Trump administration's deportation plan, why he believes the military must combat drug cartels, and how the deportation process will work. The massive artificial intelligence infrastructure project, Stargate, was announced by the Trump administration on Tuesday night. OpenAI, Oracle, and SoftBank are collaborating to invest over $100 billion in artificial intelligence infrastructure in America in the years to come. Jamie Metzl, who served on the National Security Council during the Clinton administration and is an AI expert, joins to break down what investment in AI means for Americans and why he is warning against too much deregulation when it comes to artificial intelligence. Plus, commentary by Brian Kilmeade, Host of One Nation with Brian Kilmeade and The Brian Kilmeade Show. Photo Credit: AP Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

[00:00:00] Jamie Metzl   [00:36:48] Michael Goodwin   [00:55:10] Joni Ernst   [01:13:32] Julian Epstein   [01:31:58] Talmage Boston Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sturgeon caviar harvested in a lab. Skyscrapers made out of living materials that grow from the ground up. Computers that run on DNA. These might sound like science fiction fantasies, but our guest today, Jamie Metzl, says they are real — they're in development right now. How these and other biotechnologies will transform our lives, work, and the world is the subject of Jamie's new book “Superconvergence.”

AI and biotech are rapidly changing our world. Superconvergence author Jamie Metzl explores the risks and rewards of this unprecedented era! [Part 2/2 — find part 1 here!] What We Discuss with Jamie Metzl: AI and genetics are advancing rapidly, leading to potential breakthroughs in medicine, agriculture, and solving global challenges like climate change and food scarcity. The development of cell-cultivated meat and other animal products could significantly reduce environmental impact and animal cruelty associated with industrial agriculture. There are concerns about unforeseen consequences of genetic engineering and AI, including potential misuse of technology and ethical dilemmas. The COVID-19 pandemic highlighted the importance of investigating disease origins thoroughly and following scientific evidence, even when it leads to uncomfortable conclusions. Everyone can and should participate in discussions about emerging technologies and their implications. By educating ourselves on these topics, we can contribute to shaping a better future that balances innovation with ethical considerations and societal needs. And much more — continued from part 1/2 earlier this week! Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1015 This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: jordanharbinger.com/deals Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course! Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!

AI and biotech are rapidly changing our world. Superconvergence author Jamie Metzl explores the risks and rewards of this unprecedented era! [Part 1/2] What We Discuss with Jamie Metzl: Technological progress is accelerating exponentially. According to Superconvergence author Jamie Metzl, the scientific advancements made in the next 14 years will outdo those of the last century, followed by another century's worth in only seven years. AI (artificial intelligence) is not just a standalone technology, but will be integrated into every aspect of our lives, boosting the rate of scientific discoveries and problem-solving across all fields. Advances in genetic engineering and reproductive technologies may lead to the ability to select and modify embryos for desired traits, raising ethical questions and potentially redirecting the future of human evolution. The rapid pace of technological change is outstripping our evolved ability to comprehend it, leading to challenges in adapting and governing these new technologies responsibly. To navigate this rapidly changing world, humanity should focus on developing a clear set of values and goals to guide its collective use of technology. And much more — to be continued in part 2/2 coming later this week! Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1014 This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: jordanharbinger.com/deals Sign up for Six-Minute Networking — our free networking and relationship development mini course — at jordanharbinger.com/course! Subscribe to our once-a-week Wee Bit Wiser newsletter today and start filling your Wednesdays with wisdom! Do you even Reddit, bro? Join us at r/JordanHarbinger! Like this show? Please leave us a review here — even one sentence helps! Consider including your Twitter handle so we can thank you personally!

John Bickley sits down with Jamie Metzl, author of "Superconvergence," to explore the transformative impact of artificial intelligence on our lives, work, and world. They discuss the impact on privacy, security, and job displacement. Get the facts first on Morning Wire.Black Rifle Coffee: Drink America's coffee at https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/

Episode DescriptionIn this riveting episode of "The James Altucher Show," James welcomes back futurist Jamie Metzl to explore the groundbreaking themes from his new book, Superconvergence: How the Genetics, Biotech, and AI Revolutions Will Transform Our Lives, Work, and World. As one of the most frequent and insightful guests on the show, Jamie shares his expert perspective on the rapid acceleration of technologies that are reshaping our future. From the intersection of genomics and artificial intelligence to the ethical implications of human-engineered life, this conversation is packed with insights that you won't find anywhere else. Tune in to understand how these technological advancements will affect your health, the environment, and the global economy.What You'll Learn:The concept of superconvergence and how it marks a pivotal point in technological evolution.The ethical considerations and potential risks of genome editing and AI.How AI and genomics are being used to tackle some of the most challenging health issues.The future of food production with lab-grown meat and genetically modified crops.Predictions for the next big breakthroughs in biotechnology and artificial intelligence.Chapters:00:01:30 – Introduction to Jamie Metzl and Superconvergence00:02:35 – The Most Exciting and Worrisome Future Technologies00:04:04 – Potential Dangers of Genomics and AI00:06:12 – The Convergence of AI and Genomics: A Tipping Point00:10:05 – Ethical and Societal Implications of Genome Editing00:19:06 – Lab-Grown Meat: Science and Ethical Concerns00:29:52 – The Debate Over GMOs and Misinformation00:39:30 – Breakthroughs in Genome Editing and CRISPR Technologies00:54:50 – Applications of AI in Healthcare and Beyond01:02:43 – Navigating the Future of Personalized Medicine01:13:05 – Predictions for the Future: Sustainable Innovations and Human-AI IntegrationAdditional Resources:Jamie Metzl's websiteSuperconvergence: How the Genetics, Biotech, and AI Revolutions Will Transform Our Lives, Work, and WorldHacking Darwin: Genetic Engineering and the Future of HumanityAlphaFold by DeepMindJennifer Doudna's work on CRISPR ------------What do YOU think of the show? Head to JamesAltucherShow.com/listeners and fill out a short survey that will help us better tailor the podcast to our audience!Are you interested in getting direct answers from James about your question on a podcast? Go to JamesAltucherShow.com/AskAltucher and send in your questions to be answered on the air!------------Visit Notepd.com to read our idea lists & sign up to create your own!My new book, Skip the Line, is out! Make sure you get a copy wherever books are sold!Join the You Should Run for President 2.0 Facebook Group, where we discuss why you should run for President.I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltuchershow.com------------Thank you so much for listening! If you like this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe to “The James Altucher Show” wherever you get your podcasts: Apple PodcastsiHeart RadioSpotifyFollow me on social media:YouTubeTwitterFacebookLinkedIn

Episode DescriptionIn this riveting episode of "The James Altucher Show," James welcomes back futurist Jamie Metzl to explore the groundbreaking themes from his new book, Superconvergence: How the Genetics, Biotech, and AI Revolutions Will Transform Our Lives, Work, and World. As one of the most frequent and insightful guests on the show, Jamie shares his expert perspective on the rapid acceleration of technologies that are reshaping our future. From the intersection of genomics and artificial intelligence to the ethical implications of human-engineered life, this conversation is packed with insights that you won't find anywhere else. Tune in to understand how these technological advancements will affect your health, the environment, and the global economy.What You'll Learn:The concept of superconvergence and how it marks a pivotal point in technological evolution.The ethical considerations and potential risks of genome editing and AI.How AI and genomics are being used to tackle some of the most challenging health issues.The future of food production with lab-grown meat and genetically modified crops.Predictions for the next big breakthroughs in biotechnology and artificial intelligence.Chapters:00:01:30 - Introduction to Jamie Metzl and Superconvergence00:02:35 - The Most Exciting and Worrisome Future Technologies00:04:04 - Potential Dangers of Genomics and AI00:06:12 - The Convergence of AI and Genomics: A Tipping Point00:10:05 - Ethical and Societal Implications of Genome Editing00:19:06 - Lab-Grown Meat: Science and Ethical Concerns00:29:52 - The Debate Over GMOs and Misinformation00:39:30 - Breakthroughs in Genome Editing and CRISPR Technologies00:54:50 - Applications of AI in Healthcare and Beyond01:02:43 - Navigating the Future of Personalized Medicine01:13:05 - Predictions for the Future: Sustainable Innovations and Human-AI IntegrationAdditional Resources:Jamie Metzl's websiteSuperconvergence: How the Genetics, Biotech, and AI Revolutions Will Transform Our Lives, Work, and WorldHacking Darwin: Genetic Engineering and the Future of HumanityAlphaFold by DeepMindJennifer Doudna's work on CRISPR ------------What do YOU think of the show? Head to JamesAltucherShow.com/listeners and fill out a short survey that will help us better tailor the podcast to our audience!Are you interested in getting direct answers from James about your question on a podcast? Go to JamesAltucherShow.com/AskAltucher and send in your questions to be answered on the air!------------Visit Notepd.com to read our idea lists & sign up to create your own!My new book, Skip the Line, is out! Make sure you get a copy wherever books are sold!Join the You Should Run for President 2.0 Facebook Group, where we discuss why you should run for President.I write about all my podcasts! Check out the full post and learn what I learned at jamesaltuchershow.com------------Thank you so much for listening! If you like this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe to "The James Altucher Show" wherever you get your podcasts: Apple PodcastsiHeart RadioSpotifyFollow me on social media:YouTubeTwitterFacebookLinkedIn