Podcasts about Protestantism

Reject the "Renaissance" of Spiritual Formation - A Critique of Practicing the Way, presented by Bob DeWaay and Barb Gretch. John Mark Comer credits Richard Foster with launching a "renaissance" of spiritual formation in Protestantism. Bob DeWaay warns this movement replaces confidence in Scripture with mystical practices and calls believers to approach God through Christ alone. (duration 00:22:23) Click here to play

Listen to a question-and-answer session with Mattie Montgomery and Gavin Ortlund. They discuss Protestantism, Catholicism, and important questions regarding the truth of the Gospel.Support the show

What does it actually look like to live the Catholic faith in marriage and family life?

Mike Day:- This House Pt.14: The Kingdom and the Church https://drive.google.com/file/d/12Wtp2ezTZWv_QdUgvgItIx-pmYk5mvYb/view?usp=drive_link Explores the relationship between God's kingdom and the church, outlining its historical context and divine purpose: Kingdom vs. Church: The kingdom is defined as God's rule, while the church is the community of people created by that rule to proclaim and demonstrate it.1 Global Christianity: It tracks the movement of Christianity's "center of gravity" from the Middle East to Europe, and currently to Sub-Saharan Africa, noting distinctives of major traditions like Catholicism, Protestantism, Orthodoxy, and Pentecostalism.2 Church Identity: Described as the "Ekklesia" (those called out), the church is a "new creation community" with a new identity.3 Metaphors: The church is likened to a household (family), hospital (healing), army (peace corps), body (multi-gifted), and school (learning).4 Divine Purpose: God's intent is for the church to be unified in Christ, matured through teaching, servant-hearted by following Jesus' example, and empowered by the Holy Spirit.

Is Judaism a Religion? The Misunderstood History of Jewish Identity | Zionism, Nationhood & the EnlightenmentIn this episode of The Fifth Question Podcast, we tackle one of the most common misunderstandings in modern discourse: the idea that Judaism is “just a religion.” From the ancient tribe of Judah to the Enlightenment, Reform Judaism, nationalism, and modern Zionism, this episode explores why Jewish identity has historically functioned as far more than a confessional faith.We examine the Talmudic understanding of Jewish peoplehood, the emergence of “religion” as a modern category, the impact of European liberalism and Protestantism on Jewish self-definition, and why debates over Zionism and antisemitism often collapse because of category errors about what Jews actually are.This episode discusses:Why Judaism historically functioned as a peoplehood or nationThe origin of the term “Jew” and the tribe of JudahThe Talmudic principle that “a Jew, even if he sins, remains Jewish”Why conversion out of Judaism historically did not erase Jewish identityThe Enlightenment, liberalism, and the invention of “religion”Moses Mendelssohn, Reform Judaism, and the Pittsburgh PlatformKant and the “nation within a nation” argumentZionism as a response to modern nationalismWhy Jewish identity does not fit neatly into Western religious categoriesThe relationship between anti-Zionism, antisemitism, and Jewish peoplehoodIf you enjoy long-form conversations on Jewish history, Zionism, philosophy, religion, nationalism, political theory, and intellectual history, make sure to like, subscribe, and share.⏱️ TIMESTAMPS00:00 – Introduction: Is Judaism a Religion?01:25 – The Tribe of Judah and Ancient Jewish Identity02:37 – The Talmud on Jewish Identity and Conversion03:46 – Medieval Europe, Forced Conversion, and Rashi05:21 – Why “Religion” Is a Modern Concept06:14 – Protestantism vs Judaism07:23 – Dogma, Heresy, and Jewish Debate08:29 – Why the West Misunderstands Judaism09:29 – Liberalism, Nationalism, and the Jewish Question10:26 – Am Yisrael: Jews as a Nation11:16 – Moses Mendelssohn and Reform Judaism12:10 – The Pittsburgh Platform and Religious Judaism13:34 – The PLO's Rabbi and Anti-Zionist Arguments14:04 – Zionism and Jewish Peoplehood15:15 – Why Calling Judaism “Just a Religion” Is Misleading16:03 – Eurocentrism, Colonialism, and Jewish Identity#judaism #zionisme #jewishhistory #israel #Antisemitism #jewishidentity #religion #JewishPeoplehood #middleeast #talmud #MosesMendelssohn #reformjudaism #jewishphilosophy #HistoryPodcast #politicalphilosophy #TheFifthQuestion #israelpalestine #JewishNation #nationalism #jewishthought Jewish History, Politics, Israel, Antisemitism, and Zionism - I cover it all.Politics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6QupJZ1HLY&list=PLQ3aQmFcYiCqqL-GSNw6NhSZWOvzaDdIKJewish History: https://youtu.be/1u4jHoZ8stM?si=0jZP4uhXlVEg2NOTAntisemitism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCgnEZ1d24Q&list=PLQ3aQmFcYiCqkU_aPIJGbE1xTKEbkh8euFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/daniel.levine.31/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rabbidaniellevine/#Israel #Rabbi #Jewish #WhatisZionism #DoJews?

Have a comment? Send us a text! (We read all of them but can't reply). Email us: Will@faithfulpoliticspodcast.comIn this episode of Faithful Politics, Will Wright and Pastor Josh Burtram talk with historian D.G. Hart about Christian nationalism, church-state separation, the American founding, and what can happen when Christianity becomes too closely tied to political power. Hart brings a distinctive perspective to this conversation. He is a conservative Presbyterian and a historian of American religion, but he is deeply skeptical of efforts to make Christianity dependent on government power.Hart argues that one of the unusual features of the American experiment is that the United States broke from a long history of church-state entanglement. That separation was not just a legal technicality. It created space for religious pluralism and helped prevent Christianity from becoming coercive through the power of the state.Book:D.G. Hart, Protestants and Patriots: Presbyterians in the Age of Revolution: https://bookshop.org/a/112456/9780268210823Guest BioD.G. Hart is a historian of American religion and professor of history at Hillsdale College. His work focuses on Protestantism, American religious history, church life, and the relationship between Christianity and political authority. He is the author of several books, including Benjamin Franklin: Cultural Protestant and Protestants and Patriots: Presbyterians in the Age of Revolution. In this conversation, Hart brings a historically grounded and theologically conservative perspective to debates about Christian nationalism, church-state separation, and the American founding.Support the show

Hi GGB :) On this episode of Girls Gone Bible, we're honored to sit down with Father Josiah for a beautiful conversation surrounding Orthodoxy, Protestantism, the early Church Fathers, the gospel, and the person of Jesus Christ. Together, we explore the history of the Church, the depth of Christian tradition, and the centrality of Jesus in all things.   This conversation is rich, thoughtful, and deeply rooted in a shared love for Christ and His Church. we love you soooooo much. Jesus loves you more. -Ang & Ari ORDER OUR BOOK! You can order our new book "Out of the Wilderness— 31 Devotions to Walk with God Through Your Hardest Seasons" at girlsgonebible.com/book JOIN US ON GGB+

In this conversation, Jacob Hansen and Blake Ostler dive into one of the most important theological debates in Christianity—Calvinism as espoused by popular youtuber like Dr James White. Our LinksWebsite: http://thoughtfulfaith.orgInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thoughtful.faithTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thoughtful.faithPodcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1478749DISCLAIMER: The views expressed in this video are entirely the opinion of the creator and do not necessarily reflect any officially endorsed positions of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints or channel sponsors.

Autumn and Dave sit down with Dr. Wenig for further discussion on what it means to be Protestant. As interest in church history rises and some Christians turn to Catholicism and Orthodox denominations for a sense of historical rootedness and continuity, Protestantism faces common critiques of its ahistorical, fragmented, and overly individualistic nature. Do those claims hold up? Today's conversation considers authority, unity, and catholicity, and what it looks like for the church to be both rooted in the apostolic faith and continually reformed by the Word of God.Resources mentioned in this episode:What It Means To Be Protestant by Gavin OrtlundThe Quest for God by Paul Johnson

Joscha Bach is back on the show, and Vance opens by asking the question almost everyone is asking right now: should we be afraid of AI? Joscha's answer is no, and his reasons are not the usual ones. AI is creating more jobs than it removes, it's already the most equitable technology ever built (a $20-a-month plan gives anyone in the world access to a thousand Einsteins), and most of the fear is a media reaction to a business model under threat — not a reflection of what's actually happening in the economy.From there the conversation moves through the strangest version of an AI episode you'll hear. Joscha frames hallucinations as the natural state of a “dream machine” not coupled to reality, dreams themselves as fine-tuning on synthetic data, the history of why neural nets won over symbolic AI (Rich Sutton's “bitter lesson”), and why every modern model — including Grok — inherits the same biases from the same training data. He and Vance then turn to religion as the same problem from another angle: why modern secular thought is structurally a form of Protestantism, why Harvard became its Vatican, why birth rates are collapsing in liberal societies, and why Joscha worries we are badly underprepared for a coming religious conflict.The episode reaches its philosophical core when Joscha lays out what he calls cyber animism — the idea that spirits are real, and that they are literally self-organizing software running on physics. Your “self” is not your cells or your electricity; it's the pattern that keeps the cells coordinated, the same way a religion keeps a civilization stable across generations. Vance, who has heard Joscha describe this idea for ten years, says this is the first time it has actually landed. They close on Joscha's upcoming inaugural machine consciousness conference, MC001, hosted by the California Institute for Machine Consciousness: https://machine-consciousness.ai/ .https://Articulate.Ventures/IBC/https://LegacyInterviews.com/

Justin Hibbard answers one of his most frequently asked questions - Why Catholic and not Eastern Orthodox? In this longer than normal episode, Justin Hibbard addresses the anti-Catholicism that's at the root of Protestantism, takes a deep dive into the historical record of the Church, delves into the longstanding conflict between Rome and Constantinople, and calls attention to the Catholic Church's efforts towards Jesus' call to unity. SOCIAL LINKS* Follow Why Catholic on Instagram.* Subscribe to Why Catholic on YouTube.* Follow Justin on Facebook.SHOW NOTES* Episode 70: The Four Marks of the True Church* Episode 63: Not all Catholics are Roman Catholic* Episode 64: The Purpose of a Well-Defined Hierarchy* Episode 72: Eastern & Ukrainian Catholicism with Fr. Dcn. Anthony Dragani* Episode 147: The World that Led to the Council of Nicaea* Episode 148: The First Council of Nicaea (325)* Episode 149: From Nicaea to Constantinople* Episode 150: The First Council of Constantinople (381)* Episode 151: The Council of Ephesus (431)* Episode 152: The Council of Chalcedon (451)* Episode 153: The Second Council of Constantinople (553)* Episode 154: War Among the Monotheists* Episode 155: The Third Council of Constantinople (680-681)* Episode 156: The Second Council of Nicaea (787)* Episode 157: Reflections on the First Seven Ecumenical Councils* Episode 158: The Fourth Council of Constantinople (869-870)* Episode 159: The Great Schism* Episode 165: The Second Council of Lyon (1274)* Episode 169: The Council of Florence (1431-1445)* Episode 175: Reflections on the 21 Ecumenical Councils Get full access to Why Catholic? at whycatholic.substack.com/subscribe

This week we ask what is your Weltanschaung; the UK Elections; Green overseas trans student elected to govern Scotland; Holland and Sandbrook on non conformist Protestantism in UK politics; One Nation in Australia; Country of the Week - India; Pete Townsend and John Entwhistle;  The battle that was won by cats; Feedback;  Some of the Oldest things in the world; Sam Alberry;  Christians slaughtered in the DRC; and the final word - Matthew 23:27-28  with music from Bob Dylan, Ma Rewa, Yeshua Ministries, the Who, Squeeze, Mozart, and Stephen McWhirter....

Matt Slick Live (Live Broadcast of 05/13/2026) is a production of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry (CARM). Matt answers questions on topics such as: The Bible, Apologetics, Theology, World Religions, Atheism, and other issues! You can also email questions to Matt using: info@carm.org, Put "Radio Show Question" in the Subject line! Answers will be discussed in a future show. Topics Include: Why are young people leaving Protestantism and joining the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Churches?/ Shallow Preaching/ Seeing the Face of God/ Scripture is our Authority/ We Will See Jesus/ Define Murder and Killing/ Romans 3:23, All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God/ Internal versus External Critique/ Apologetics and Atheism/ May 13, 2026

Audio Audio Download Questions Covered: 06:40 – In support of the belief that Mary was a Perpetual virgin, Catholics appeal to Luke 1:34 where Mary asks Gabriel how she's going to conceive a child since she doesn't “know man,” the implication being she hasn't had sexual relations with Joseph. But some Protestants counter that Mary […]

Audio Audio Download Questions Covered: 04:24 – How is the Eucharist not cannibalism? 15:30 – I think the Pentecostal belief in the real movement of the Holy Spirit within the community was pretty convincing. What is the best response to this? 22:31 – How do I answer the following: The Catholic argument that we need […]

“How do we know Mary is a perpetual virgin?” This question leads to a discussion on the implications of Luke 1:34 and the differing views between Catholics and Protestants. Other topics include whether Jesus fulfilled all Mosaic sacrificial offerings and the nature of baptism, specifically if it refers to the baptism of the Holy Spirit rather than water. Join the Catholic Answers Live Club Newsletter Invite our apologists to speak at your parish! Visit Catholicanswersspeakers.com Questions Covered: 06:40 – In support of the belief that Mary was a Perpetual virgin, Catholics appeal to Luke 1:34 where Mary asks Gabriel how she's going to conceive a child since she doesn't “know man,” the implication being she hasn't had sexual relations with Joseph. But some Protestants counter that Mary asked this because she wasn't yet married to Joseph. How do we respond? 13:29 – Regarding Jesus’ sacrifice, did he fulfill all Mosaic sacrificial offerings? Or just specific offerings? 21:19 – Is baptism actually the baptism of the holy spirit, not that of water, and is the evidence speaking in tongues? 29:49 – Were Mary and Joseph actually married but just hadn't consummated it? 41:35 – Mark 9:38-41 is the best argument for Protestantism. 51:15 – What is the connection between the coronation and the bodily assumption?

This week, the Pugs discuss an article by our friend Aaron Renn dealing with the loss of literacy and the decline of Protestantism in America. Is there a connection between the two? If so, which causes the other? What is the historic connection between literacy and Protestantism? The guys discuss these and other related subjects in this episode. Article: https://www.aaronrenn.com/p/post-protestant-post-literate?triedRedirect=true Support the Theology Pugcast on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thetheologypugcast?fbclid=IwAR17UHhfzjphO52C_kkZfursA_C784t0ldFix0wyB4fd-YOJpmOQ3dyqGf8 Learn more about First Pres. Battle Ground: https://www.solochristo.org/ Connect with WileyCraft Productions: https://wileycraftproductions.com/

This week, the Pugs discuss an article by our friend Aaron Renn dealing with the loss of literacy and the decline of Protestantism in America. Is there a connection between the two? If so, which causes the other? What is the historic connection between literacy and Protestantism? The guys discuss these and other related subjects in this episode.Article: https://www.aaronrenn.com/p/post-protestant-post-literate?triedRedirect=trueSupport the Theology Pugcast on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thetheologypugcast?fbclid=IwAR17UHhfzjphO52C_kkZfursA_C784t0ldFix0wyB4fd-YOJpmOQ3dyqGf8Learn more about First Pres. Battle Ground: https://www.solochristo.org/Connect with WileyCraft Productions: https://wileycraftproductions.com/

In this powerful episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony and Jesse dive deep into Matthew 21:33-46, examining Jesus's parable of the wicked tenants. The hosts unpack how Christ masterfully draws the Pharisees into pronouncing their own condemnation, revealing not merely theological error but intentional usurpation of God's authority. Through careful exegesis, they explore the shocking setup of the parable—where the landowner does all the work while the tenants contribute nothing—and how this mirrors God's sovereign initiative in salvation. The discussion touches on confession, the value of full-time ministry, and the scandal of rejecting the Messiah despite recognizing His authority. This episode challenges listeners to examine whether they, like the Pharisees, attempt to claim God's work as their own. Key Takeaways God Does All the Verbs: The parable emphasizes that the landowner planted, built, protected, and prepared everything—the tenants contributed nothing yet claimed ownership of the fruit. Self-Pronounced Condemnation: Jesus draws the Pharisees into declaring their own judgment, demonstrating that even the unregenerate conscience bears witness to divine justice (Romans 2). Intentional Usurpation, Not Mere Error: The Pharisees weren't well-intentioned but misguided; they recognized Christ's authority as the heir and deliberately murdered Him to seize His inheritance. The Scandal of Grace: The parable's shocking element is that the landowner prepared everything before leasing the land—far exceeding normal agricultural arrangements and illustrating God's unmerited favor. Ecclesial Support for Ministry: The OPC presbytery's decision to fund a full-time call demonstrates how church structure can honor the ministry of Word and sacrament by freeing ministers from worldly distractions. Particular Repentance Matters: Westminster Confession 15.5 teaches that believers should not content themselves with general repentance but "endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly." The Stone Rejected Becomes Chief: Christ's citation of Psalm 118 reveals that the very rejection by the builders (religious leaders) was God's plan to establish the cornerstone of salvation. Key Concepts God Does All the Verbs The concentration of action verbs attributed solely to the landowner in Matthew 21:33 is theologically significant. The landowner plants, builds, digs, and rents—creating a fully functional, productive vineyard before the tenants ever arrive. This arrangement differs radically from typical first-century agricultural practices, where tenants would lease raw land and develop it themselves, sharing profits with the landowner. Jesus deliberately presents an extraordinary scenario where the tenants receive everything prepared and ready, requiring only stewardship of what already exists. This parallels God's sovereign initiative in election and salvation: believers contribute nothing to their standing before God, receiving instead a fully accomplished redemption. The Pharisees' rebellion wasn't against burdensome requirements but against simply acknowledging God's rightful ownership of what He alone created. Intentional Usurpation, Not Mere Error The hosts challenge the common sympathetic reading of the Pharisees as well-intentioned legalists who simply got sidetracked. Instead, verse 38 reveals the tenants explicitly recognize the son as heir and plot to murder him to "seize his inheritance." This isn't accidental rejection but calculated rebellion. The Pharisees weren't confused about Jesus's identity or authority—they understood precisely who He claimed to be and deliberately chose to destroy Him rather than submit. This interpretation carries significant weight for understanding the nature of unbelief: it's not primarily intellectual confusion but volitional rebellion. The religious leaders didn't need more evidence or clearer teaching; they needed transformed hearts. This same dynamic appears whenever humans recognize divine truth yet choose self-sovereignty over submission to God's rightful claim on their lives. The Scandal of Grace The parable begins with a scandalous premise that would have startled Jesus's original audience. Unlike normal tenant farming arrangements where landowners simply provided land in exchange for a share of whatever the tenants produced through their own labor, this landowner invests everything. He doesn't just own the property—he plants the vineyard, constructs the protective wall, digs the wine press for production, and builds the watchtower for defense. The tenants receive a turnkey operation requiring minimal effort. This extravagant preparation mirrors God's unmerited favor toward Israel and, by extension, the church. God didn't merely create humanity and wait to see what we would produce; He established covenants, sent prophets, preserved His Word, and ultimately sent His Son—all before requiring any response. The only "payment" demanded is acknowledging His ownership of what He created. The parable thus exposes the absurdity and ingratitude of claiming God's work as our own achievement. Memorable Quotes God does all the verbs. All of the verbs are done by the landowner. There is nothing expected of these tenants—they really add nothing to the landowner's land. Christ is not painting the Pharisees as well-intentioned but ultimately wrong. He's painting them as usurpers who recognize the proper authority and rather than submitting to it, they're going to reject that authority and try to take it for their own. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly. (Westminster Confession 15.5) Transcript Welcome to episode 491 of the Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.  [00:01:12] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother.  [00:01:17] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother.  [00:01:18] Parable of Tenants [00:01:18] Jesse Schwamb: So picture this, Tony, your landlord. You've built the perfect vineyard. We're talking wall watchtower, wine, press, the works like what everybody says. Everybody knows you need all those things. You've got it all set up, and then you hand the keys to some tenants. You take a long trip, you go enjoy yourself. And when the harvest rolls around, you send your servants to collect the rent. And shockingly, your tenants, they beat. Stone. Another, the kill a third. So naturally you think, you know what? I'll fix this. Lemme just send more people. That's obviously the problem. There's some kind of just profound misunderstanding about what's going on here and about our relationship in this business. And then when that doesn't work, you send your son now loved ones. If this were a business strategy, we would already be calling hr. But of course it's not a business strategy, it's a parable. And Jesus is telling it to the very people about to prove the parable true. So welcome back to the Reformed Brotherhood because we're in Matthew Chapter 21 and we're gonna be actually getting all the way into the parable of the Vine growers where the patience of God looks, I would say, to almost anybody else, to humanize at least almost reckless until you realize that's exactly the point. So yeah, grab your beverage of choice, grab your Bible, pull the car over, will you? Because this is gonna get real and we're going to reason together. But before we do all of that, let's do a little affirming with or denying against, what do you got?  [00:02:41] Inside Baseball Affirmation [00:02:41] Tony Arsenal: So this is a sort of inside baseball, uh, affirmation. Um, I'm not sharing anything, although it may feel like I'm sharing something that is private and like, uh, like confidential. It's not No, this is good. Um, so I had the opportunity to visit. Um, my presbytery, um, for those who are listeners of the show or people who like, have been with us a long time, um, I was part of a Baptist church. Uh, I've always kind of been a Presbyterian at heart, but, um, our church closed, uh, a little over a year and a half ago now. And, um, uh, I've joined an OPC congregation in membership now. We've been members there for about a year. And, um, so I've been visiting Presbytery, which is the, the meeting of all of the leadership of all of the churches. So we won't do a polity breakdown here, but basically like, it's, it's the regional meeting. It's the regional business meeting or church meeting for a group of churches in the OPC, the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. And so a lot of the meetings, you know, have the normal kind of business type stuff. You have reports from different committee committees and stuff. Um.  [00:03:48] Presbytery Call Debate [00:03:48] Tony Arsenal: Where this is affirmation is coming in here is at this most recent presbytery meeting, um, was pretty heavy on, um, licensing or, or, uh, not licensing on approving men who had received a call to formal ministry within the presbytery. And so in the OPC, and I would imagine that other Presbyterian bodies are not like super different, although I'm sure there's some variation in the OPC. Um, when a church intends to extend a call to a pastor, to a teaching elder, um, to a minister, they must have the call, which is. Is both theological but is also eminently practical. Like the call is a physical piece of paper that details, you know, what the pay is, how much vacation time. So it's kind of a combination between like a theological call and also a contract. Um, the presbytery has to approve that call. And so at this most recent one, there was a couple calls that were more or less uncontroversial. There was no question about them, and they were approved pretty quickly. But there was one call, um, one call to ministry that took, I, I, I didn't time it, but it was probably like four or five hours of debate and discussion in various fashion in order to get to a point where the presbytery could approve the call. So this was a call to a minister who is being called part-time, which is unusual in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Um, the OPC uh, acknowledges the fact that bivocational tent making ministry is sometimes a necessity, but really views the ministry of the word in sacrament as something that should not have. Distractions. And actually our book of church order talks about, doesn't use the word distraction, I think, but it talks about a, a properly ordered call to a full-time minister includes phrasing that the congregation promises to compensate them in a way that allows them to be free of worldly burdens and cares. And I might have not, not have gotten that wording exactly right. But that's the idea. And so this call was. Explicitly, um, not a full-time call it, they actually took the language out of promising to pay him in a way that he's able to ignore or to not be distracted by worldly care. And that was intentional, but there was a lot of question in discussion at presbytery level about the fact that the call did not include the phrase or the wording of part-time or bivocational. So the conversation started out of like, can this call be modified to include that? So it's explicitly known in this man's call that his calling is part-time, which is both theological, to make sure that the call is properly formatted, but also like very practical that the congregation should acknowledge explicitly that they recognize that this person is not, not going to be putting, you know, 40 hours a week or 50 hours a week towards this position. [00:06:34] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:06:34] Tony Arsenal: Um. What I'm affirming is where it got to, right? So there was lots of discussion about that. There was some finagling about the retirement package. The OPC recommends that a, a minister be given a retirement contribution of no less than 5% a year of his salaried package. Um, which there's a couple line items that go into that, but 5%, and this was a little bit less than that. And this is what I'm affirming and this, I, I don't know that this is a super widespread thing that would happen all across the, um, the OPC, but it happened in the presbytery of New York and New England this past week, and it's just amazing. And I just, I just want to lay it out there and then I want to hear your reaction. [00:07:13] Funding Full Time Ministry [00:07:13] Tony Arsenal: And I, I wanna hear your reaction as the son of a minister who labored his entire adult, more or less, his entire adult career in ministry, working two or three additional jobs on top of his ministry, the presbytery decided. That because it did not like the idea of a part-time minister. They didn't think that was appropriate. They didn't think that that was good or that that was really the right goal. The presbytery allocated, I'm not gonna say the figures 'cause they're not super germane, but allocated a significant amount of money to be dis to be dispersed to the church for the next three years in order to take what was a part-time call and enable it to become a full-time call. [00:07:54] Jesse Schwamb: Wow.  [00:07:54] Tony Arsenal: And so there are a lot of, there are a lot of church bodies that would say, yeah, we don't love the idea of bi-vocational ministry. You know, we really think it's ideal that a minister could be full-time. Um, they may even put some, some theological freight behind that. Um, I have never encountered a body, um. That was willing to put a sizable amount of money towards essentially supplementing a part-time call to make it full-time. Um, this was just amazing to me, and the candidate was there. I didn't get a chance to talk to him, but I would love to talk to him about what he felt. I, I can just imagine the phone call to his wife who was not, not at presbytery, but to his wife, following the outcome of this to be like, you are never gonna believe what just happened. Right? This is a family who was intending to move across country. Right. He's currently a student at Westminster, California in seminary, uh, California, Westminster Seminary in California, finishing his M Div. They're planning a cross country move into a part-time position where she's probably gonna have to find a job, and then also he's gonna have to find a part-time job. He had the ability to call her on the break and be like, you're never gonna guess what just happened? You're never gonna,  [00:09:09] Jesse Schwamb: it's wild.  [00:09:09] Tony Arsenal: Uh, sorry, I'm getting a little emotional here. You're never going to. Believe how faithful God is in this. Right. So I'm interested to hear your reaction to that as the son of a, of a try and quad at times Quad vocational. Yeah,  [00:09:23] Jesse Schwamb: for sure.  [00:09:23] Tony Arsenal: Minister who labored his entire, more or less, his entire adult career, um, working full-time in a call as a part-time, part-time minister. You know, like that's a, that's a crazy situation. So I'm just affirming that again, I don't know how common that kind of thing is in the OPC. I don't wanna make it seem like that's the norm. Um, I actually get the sense that this is probably not the norm, but it was amazing to see and it made me in intensely like. Proud in the right way of being a part of this broader body that would, would so emphasize and so value the ministry of the word and the sacrament, and the importance of a man being able to dedicate himself to that without distraction. That they would put forward this amount of money and this kind of money. They had no reason to do so. And there's no real direct benefit to the presbytery for doing this. I mean, there's an indirect benefit of like not having a church with a part-time minister, but like there's no direct benefit to this. There's no direct return on investments that's gonna come out of this. Um, it was pretty amazing to see. It was, it was, it was super encouraging.  [00:10:28] Jesse Schwamb: That is really encouraging. I, I think it's, there's no doubt that for the called pastor, their heart is in the ministry of the word. That's what they want to be doing. They wanna be doing it all the time and as much time as they possibly can, and they wanna be able to have all of their intentional focus on it. So I. I'm excited for that guy. I mean, that's just an incredible blessing to go in hoping for funding, essentially for a part-time role and to basically be told, no, no, no, no, that's, that's not enough. We want you to be committed to this fully as we know your heart is committed. As we validated that call.  [00:11:00] Why Structure Matters [00:11:00] Jesse Schwamb: I do love being a part of churches, well, lemme say it this way. There is, I think, a benefit of being part of congregations that have like a wide resource network that has like appropriate hierarchy and structure and that can be one of them. I've seen something similar in the Christian Missionary Alliance, which is the church that I'm in, not exactly the same, but I've seen some surprising allocations of resources where they basically said, you know, this is important. Like, it even trumps we're, we're gonna. Allocate or resource something so that this can move forward because it is important in a way that was like better than the person who was bringing it before them could have hoped for. Yeah. And uh, suddenly it's as if everything aligned. And it was really in part because there was this structure to come alongside, to validate as you're saying, and then to authenticate and then again to resource assets that could be used. There's, there's something to be said for that interdependency where there is kind of this hierarchical structure in which all that's happening at a level where things are codified. And again, like there's a structure and a way in which we move through those decisions to make sure that they suit the objective of the entire movement. So I guess there's nothing I'll say, but that's a beautiful thing, isn't it?  [00:12:14] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:12:15] Generosity in Action [00:12:15] Tony Arsenal: It was, it was, it was cool because it was like this, it was like this real. Actualization of the principle of outdoing one another and showing honor. Yeah, sure. Because you know, like the initial debate was like, Hey, you know, I'm not sure we can approve this call because the, the OPCs guidelines tell us not to approve a call that has less than 5% of the retirement benefit. And there was a lot of discussion of like, well, the presbytery can't modify the call, but we don't wanna delay this guy coming in and like, we don't wanna delay his ordination, his installation. And so the initial proposal was a, a. What feels like a large amount of money to me. But after I understood more about the, the budget of what's going on in, in the presbytery was actually a very small amount of money. Started with a very tiny, very modest proposal of basically like supplementing the retirement fund to make sure that like we could, they, I say we, like, I was part of this, I was just observing, but to supplement the retirement fund in a way that allowed the church to still proceed with the call as written, but still also make sure that this person had the appropriate retirement fund. And then that just basically was like, there would be some instruction given to the church that like, you've gotta bump this up in the next budget cycle. Like you've gotta get to the 5%. That's, that's the expectation. It went from that. And like I said, I won't give you the specific numbers, but one of the presbyters and I, I'm, I, um, I, I've known this presbyter from a distance for quite a long time and, and I have an immense amount of respect for him. He stood up and he's like, well, if we're gonna give X, why don't we just give 10 times X instead? And then actually, like the discussion was like, well, is, are we sure that 10 times X is even the right amount? Why don't we have this particular group meet over the lunch break and figure out whether that's the right number and then come back after lunch and we'll vote on it. And then they came back after lunch and it was actually a number that was even greater than 10 times X. So it was like this exercise in like. This very small proposal that was still imminently generous, right? The presbytery has no obligation to do this. There's no obligation from any of the presbyters to stand up and say like, we should. We should supplement this fund. They would've been well within their right, and no one would've looked, I think. I think some people would've been frustrated by it, but I don't think anyone would've looked sideways at it or thought it was sinful. If the presbytery just said like, we can't approve this call. You guys are gonna have to come back with it and we'll vote on it at the next presbytery. Like that would've been problematic. This, this kind of poor guy who's coming outta seminary, his call and his beginning of employment would've been delayed, but like. That would've been good and orderly, but instead they were like, one, we don't want this pulpit to stay empty longer. We don't wanna disadvantage this guy who's just getting done with seminary. We want him to get started. We don't wanna discourage him. So here's a small proposal, a very modest amount of money that we can put forward for this purpose. And then it was like, let's just keep seeing how much closer to a real full-time call we can get. And they finally came back and said like, we're gonna do this. We're gonna do this in a wise fashion. They structured it. So like the first year he gets more, the second year he gets a little bit less. The third year the church gets a little bit less with the idea that like each year the church should be adjusting their budget to compensate and get this guy to that with the, the hope that like with a full-time minister, they're able to grow their congregation to the point where they can support a full-time minister. So it was just this really cool, super encouraging exercise. And what I loved about it is the only real debate that was going on was about do we need to do more? There was no one being like, wait a second, why are we, why are we putting more money to this? The whole thing was like, is this actually enough to accomplish what we think God wants to do with this person's call? Because if, if God is truly calling this man to this, this particular church, and we believe that he is. Then what do we as a, as a people of God need to do to enable that call to look like what we actually believe calls to ministry are supposed to look like, which is a full-time call to ministry that is undistracted by the cares of the world. What do we need to do? The answer in this case was like, I think we need to put a sizable amount of money to it. Um, it's a, I mean, and again. I'm not gonna say it on the air. It was not a small chunk of change. Um, it was, it was a, it was a large amount of money that was devoted to this cause and that just goes to show how much this body values the importance of a full-time minister of the word, so. [00:16:50] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:16:51] OPC Love and Recommendation [00:16:51] Tony Arsenal: That's enough about that. I, I could gush about how proud I am to be a part of this body and how encouraged I am and how amazing it was and how awesome this, this guy, how, how much this guy must be thanking God for the providence and like, this is the last thing. I'll say this, this young man younger than me, I think he's graduating seminary. I saw him across the room. He looks like he's probably in his mid twenties, right? Young guy. He's got a wife doesn't have kids yet coming into this ministry, not only is he coming into this ministry, but as a Presbyterian minister, when he's installed as the minister of this church. He will be joining this body of presbyters as the, as his brothers like. He is not a member of the local church. He's a member of the presbytery, which is the regional church. So now he's coming into this fully supported by his brothers in the presbytery that he saw go to the mat to make sure he was properly taken care of, that the congregation was not unintentionally taking advantage of his labor, but also that he knows that all of these men are willing to do what they need to do to make sure that his ministry is successful and edifies the church like that is. Uh, I don't want to gush on Presbyterianism too much, but like that is Presbyterianism at peak form, right? This is the body of elders making sure that every church in the region, even the ones they're not directly ministering in, has what it needs to succeed and to honor God and to do what needs to happen. So I'm affirming the presbytery of New York and New England and the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Um, I have been so blessed by knowing many of these presbyters. I've been so blessed by being a part of the congregation that I am. There are lots of really great churches and really great denominations out there. If you are looking for a church and there is an OPC congregation in your area, absolutely go check it out. I know it feels stuffy sometimes, and I will admit, like sometimes it feels a little bit overly traditional in terms of like just the vibe of the congregation,  [00:18:52] Jesse Schwamb: right?  [00:18:52] Tony Arsenal: But press past that because I don't think, I don't think you will find, um. You may find lots of congregations that are as faithful. I don't think you're gonna find many that are more faithful than your average OPC congregation. So I could be wrong. I just, I just love the OPC. I just really, really love it. So that's my affirmation. What do you got for us, Jesse?  [00:19:18] Denial Catholic Confession Math [00:19:18] Jesse Schwamb: I think I got denial, which is maybe a little bit unusual for me. [00:19:21] Tony Arsenal: As long as you're not denying the OPCI think we're fine.  [00:19:23] Jesse Schwamb: No, it's, it's not, it is church related and I, I'll try to keep it short 'cause I think I can make this way longer than it, it probably should be, but lemme think how to phrase this. So, I don't know with a devil negative, I guess when I'm a denying against is maybe not enough confession by your own standard. So the, I'm gonna try to make this so brief. I, I just happened to be out with my wife this afternoon and we had to run errands. We got stuck in traffic and this gave me longer than usual to sit in front of our. Very local and very large Catholic church. So I happen to be looking at their sign. It's a very large congregation. I've been actually been in this one on a couple of occasions for funerals. So not only do I know its size and scope, but again, if you get, if you get on this road at the wrong time on the Lord's day, you're gonna be stuck for a long time because there are so many people that attend. I say that because I noticed on the sign that there were three times for mass on the Lord's Day. So that also says something about the number of people coming through. And then on the sign though, underneath it said for confessions, go to our website. Mm-hmm. So I was like, man, I gotta lick this up because I can't tell if they're telling me I can confess on the website or if it's go to the website for the times. And I said to my wife, only half jokingly, if I can confess online, I'm gonna confess something. So I went to, I went to the website and, and sure enough it was almost disappointingly. It was just the times.  [00:20:45] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:20:46] Jesse Schwamb: Here's what I've found interesting, which just launched me into this like deep rabbit hole. There were three times for confession. Two of those times were just a half an hour, and the third time was an hour. So, uh, what I did was I went through, actually, I think what they had on there was, was three full hours a week. It was a little bit confusing, but I think it was three full hours. Now I think about it. So I went back, I just couldn't help myself, Tony. So I started to think, alright, let's say. I think it's fair to assume  [00:21:15] Tony Arsenal: math, Jesse is kicking in right now. Yes. You're gonna calculate how many minutes per, per person is what you're doing. I'm thinking, ah,  [00:21:22] Jesse Schwamb: yeah, it's something like that. So what I thought was, I don't think it's, uh, I was gonna be conservative. I wanna be fair. I wanna be fair. So, and now we should say like, I think most people realize that the Catholic understanding of confession and the Protestant one is, is very different. The Catholic sacrament of confession is the right through which Catholics are gonna confess their sins to a priest receive absolution, and it's gonna restore the relationship with God in the church. And, and they're gonna believe that the priest acts as a person of Christ and is bound by the seal of confession and an absolute kind of obligation. Uh, of course never to reveal what was disclosed during that process. So, by the way, the website that I went to, lovely instructions. I mean, I was like, wow. I was reading it to my wife who was, uh, not familiar with this at all, and she was like, they can make you do stuff. And I was like, well, yeah. I mean, obviously like there's, there's a portion of this where there's contrition or penant penance. It could be a prayer, it could be act of charity, like all kinds of stuff. So I went back and I thought. I don't think it's unreasonable that there's 350 persons that would say, let's say an average, uh, that would wanna take part of confession. Now, let's say that they did that at, at least monthly, just once a month. And, and I don't know how people's conviction is on that, but I'm gonna say conservatively once a month. Let's say that, and I don't think this is unreasonable, Tony, but you tell me. Let's say you're, you're trucking, you're moving through confession. Let's say it's five minutes a piece. So we're up to 1,750 minutes, uh, per month. That's the demand on the priest because I was, I was looking at this time and I was thinking something is strange here to me, so. That was the demand then, and I'll spare you the other math, which could be very long and un uninteresting. I'm coming up with, you'd need 2.24, two and a quarter priests, which of course you can't have a quarter priests or a quarter person for any reason. So you'd hire, you'd hire three priests, which satisfy the demand if, and the major assumptions here, that is like everybody can't show up at the same time. Obviously, I'm assuming that like everybody has their own time, they're spreading it out. So everybody gets the confession, but it's just five minutes. And I, I have no idea. I mean, if you're a Luther, that's certainly not sufficient time.  [00:23:20] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:23:20] Jesse Schwamb: And you would need three priests. Now here's the thing that I just kind of backed into that, besides like three being like, okay, that, that's, you would need three priests just to satisfy this congregation. If they're confessing for five minutes, once per month. Uh, by the way, if you said, well, half the congregation is going to go weekly, uh, then you, you would double the number of priests you need to 5.98 or six. But here's, here's the bottom line for me. This is why the denial comes in about maybe not enough, is. If you were just to distill that down to like, if you could have one priest cover that time, that there's a demand for like 779.4 hours, or excuse me, minutes of confession, that priest would only be allocating approximately like seven and a half percent of their working hours, their work toward handling confession. This seems like not enough confession given the standards of confession in the Catholic church. And again, I know that I'm, I'm now allocating that to one priest and I just told everybody you need three. That's true. So if you had these three now, if you hired three just to meet the demand, that would only be about like three and a half or a little under three and a half percent of their combined time. So the denial is Catholics, I think, unless I'm way off in some of my assumptions here, you might not be confessing enough by your own standards because  [00:24:33] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:24:34] Jesse Schwamb: Uh, that seems like not enough time.  [00:24:38] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:24:39] Ritual Faithfulness Explained [00:24:39] Tony Arsenal: I mean, I think, um. I don't want to be too bombastic here, but I think,  [00:24:46] Jesse Schwamb: I think I already started this on this  [00:24:48] Tony Arsenal: path. Maybe this, maybe this isn't all that bombastic. Um, because this is so much about ritual and actually I say this is gonna sound really, we, we go, but trying to think from the Roman Catholic perspective, it's actually not, and I'll I'll tell you a brief story, uh, to explain it. Um, a lot of Roman Catholics are just going through the motions. [00:25:13] Jesse Schwamb: That's true.  [00:25:14] Tony Arsenal: But the point, the, the, the point of contention actually is that going through the motions is valuable for the Roman Catholic, right? So I, I knew this, uh, this young woman when I was in college who was a Roman Catholic, and we had many discussions about, about the differences between Protestantism and and Roman Catholicism. And what I came to understand is that going to mass for her. Itself was an act of faith. And so for the Roman Catholic, the concept of, of faith is different than the concept that Protestants operate under. So for the Roman Catholic who, um, goes to mass, even when they feel like they're, like, when they think they're just going through the motions, going through the motions is itself the act of faith. And that's because for most of Roman Catholics, most of Roman Catholicism, faith really equals faithfulness, right? So, so doing the act is the act of faithfulness. Doing the act is faith. Where for the Protestant, like faith is about belief and trust and knowledge. Like it's, it's an. Not entirely intellectual, but it's, it's an inward thing for the Roman Catholic faith is an out is primarily an outward thing. It's what you do, it's how you act. It's faith formed in love. It's faith formed in charity.  [00:26:36] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:26:37] Tony Arsenal: So I think most Roman Catholics going to obligatory confession first. I think once a month is probably like, probably more frequent than most Roman Catholics go to mass or go to confession. Um, I thought I read a stat that it was like every six months is, is pretty average and I think that's what's required by the church maybe even once a year is, is required by the church. Um, I think like most Roman Catholics go into the, the confessional booth and like father forgive me for I've sinned. It's been such and such a number of days since my last confession. Right. And they may bring up a couple particular things that they've done and, and then I think the priest commonly absolves them of all of their sins. Like, almost like in an omnibus fashion and then prescribes their acts of penance, which is it, it like, honestly, it's probably things they should already be doing as a faithful Catholic saying Hail Marys and doing our fathers and acts of charity and things like that. So I think your math is probably right. [00:27:39] Protestant Repentance Particular [00:27:39] Tony Arsenal: I think your, your theory that more confession is probably like, I'm gonna read this from, uh, the Westminster confession, just to, just to say it here, is, this is chapter 15, which is titled of Repentance Under Life. And this is, uh, this is section five or paragraph five. It says, men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but is every man's duty to endeavor, to repent of his particular sins, particularly. And I think that's just such a beautifully phrased sentence like. Not only is it like potent theologically, but like, it just, it just feels good, like in terms of like the English language to repent of your particular sins, particularly. And like the idea is yes, Protestant reform, Christians affirm a general repentance from sin, right? We repent of our sin before the father, uh, as a result of our, of our coming to faith in Christ. And as part of our sanctification, we mortify our sin and we, Viv we are vivified by the spirit and repentance falls in that ongoing sanctification process. And there is this general repentance of like, I repent of the fact that I'm a sinner and that I commit sins, but there is this element in the reformed faith of like, I should be confessing to God. And I think by extension, like we should be confessing to our fellow Christians, our particular sins, our individual sins, and we should be doing that on particular occasion. And I think like. The Luther style confession of like going into the confessor and confessing like every particular sin. Particularly I think most Roman Catholic priests would, priests. Priests would probably have the same reaction Tobits did where he was like, get outta here. Like, come on dude. Like just go live your life and like deal with it. I think that's probably the reaction most Catholic priests would have. But yeah, I think you're right. Like if we're really talking about like. Five, five minutes of confession once a month and that somehow having some sort of spiritual efficacy. I'm not sure I buy that math. Like I think you're, you're probably spot on.  [00:29:47] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah.  [00:29:47] Confession Hours Oddities [00:29:47] Jesse Schwamb: I just was curious about how many priests would be required and then the allocation of the duties. By the way, you are right. So I, because I had to check on this, the, the fourth letter in council of 1215 does say that the church requires confession of any grave or mortal sins at least once a year. But the church, yeah, strongly encourages more frequent confession as a spiritual practice, even for, of course, like the venial or the less serious sins in their eyes. So yeah, my thought here was just that. I think it's actually undervalued by way of the math. Like the, as the kids say, the math just isn't math thing for me on this one. But I was more curious about, since this is one of the seven sacraments, even if you just said like, well, it should have at least one seven of the allocation. That's like, what? Like something like 14%. And so this is, um, almost half of that. I just found it a little bit, a little bit odd and yeah, I think you'd have to be, uh, so in other words, when I looked at the, basically, here's the bottom line. When I looked at the hours for confession one, there were weird times and uh, two, I was like, that doesn't seem like enough hours. Like, it was just more like that. Like how that's like saying like, Hey, the post office is open three hours a week, and by the way, one of those hours is from seven to eight o'clock on Friday. Like they had some hours. One hour just on Friday was like, I guess that's the way you wanna start your weekend is like, let's get all of this off my chest. Yeah. And, and do it. Right. And the last thing I'll say by the way, is you're correct. When you look at the instruction they give you, and this is common of course, toward the end, when they say like, here's how you like wrap up your part. Actually everybody should go read, go to the local, local Catholic church website and read the instructions. 'cause in some ways they're just interesting and kind of, um, I don't wanna say funny 'cause I'm not making fun. I'm just saying like, they have to give you instruction if you've never done it before. And so most of us are not really probably familiar with the process and they give you explicit instruction and toward the end it's like, here's how you kinda like hang up the call with the priest. And it's like you said, you know, these are my sins and all others, would you be willing to forgive? So you're right. Right. They just kinda wrap them all up because it's sins of omission, sense of commission, it's all to be together. But I, I wonder, you gotta think there's people in there that are like. The priests are like, okay, man, just yeah. Wrap, come on, wrap, wrap it up.  [00:31:55] Confession Timing Talk [00:31:55] Jesse Schwamb: And other people that come in are just like, you know, forgive me father. And uh, lastly to your point, when they give you instruction about how you should start, of course you're always to signify how long it's been since your last confession. Right. Confession. And they say parenthetically, like, reference the days, weeks, months, or years. So you're right. There are gonna be people that probably do it very frequently and probably people who do it infrequently still, I would say I just couldn't believe for a church this large, that there was just three hours a week.  [00:32:21] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:32:21] Jesse Schwamb: For everybody else.  [00:32:22] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:32:23] Vance and Papal Authority [00:32:23] Tony Arsenal: This leads me to two very brief sub, uh, denials slash affirmations. Uh, I don't know if you saw this, um, this is not a political statement, right? I, I have lots of feelings and thoughts about the current administration and I think most of my feelings and thoughts would surprise. Everybody. But I thought it was hilarious because JD Vance, who is a Roman Catholic, uh, confessed Roman Catholic part of the Roman Catholic Church, uh, he ha I, I'm not sure if I'm affirming or denying this, there was this funny, uh, funny exchange. I think he was at doing like a, doing like a TPU, I don't know, speech. He was doing a speech at some conservative event and he said something like, I think that the Pope should be more careful when he makes theological statements. I'm wanna be like, do you understand what the pope is in your religion? That was one of my sub denials. Uh, I don't remember what the other one is, so it must not have been that important. It'll come back to me at the worst possible moment and I will try very hard not to interrupt our show for it, but I probably will fail.  [00:33:25] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah.  [00:33:25] Reading Matthew 21 [00:33:25] Jesse Schwamb: Listen, we, we gotta get to some scripture because. We're, we're doing this old school style where we take like half the time and just talk about affirmations. It's true in house. It's true. Which is great fun. But let's, let's get back to Matthew 21. And I, I know we did this last time, but I am gonna rock through the passage 'cause of course, that's the best part of any of our discussion, is actually hearing from, from the Holy Spirit through the scripture, uh, which he's given to us. So this is, uh, Matthew 21, starting in verse 33. And you're gonna hear the, the whole thing right here. Uh, this is Jesus speaking. Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who planted a vineyard and put a wall around it and dug a wine press in it and built a tower and rented it out to vine growers and went on a journey. Now, when the high risk time approached, he sent his slaves to the vine growers to receive his fruit, and the vine growers took his slaves and beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. Again, he sent another group of slaves larger than the first, and they did the same thing to them. But afterward he sent his son to them saying they will respect my son. But when the vine growers saw the sun, they said among themselves, this is the heir. Come let us kill him and seize his inheritance, and they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine growers? They said to him, he will bring those wretches to a wretched end and will rent out the vineyard to other vine growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons. Jesus said to them, did you ever read in the scriptures the stone, which the builders rejected? This has become the chief cornerstone. This came about from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes. Therefore, I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing the fruit of it. And he who falls in the stone will be broken to pieces, but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust. And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they understood that he was speaking about them. And although they were seeking to seize him, they feared the crowds because they're regarding him to be a prophet. [00:35:28] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:35:30] Pharisees Condemn Themselves [00:35:30] Tony Arsenal: This is like a super heavy parable. Right. And we talked a lot last week about how like the point of this parable is not necessarily to try to instruct the Pharisees or the Sadducees. Like it's not to instruct the people who were going to reject Christ, uh, the, the builders who would reject the cornerstone. It's really a parable to teach those. Who are observing this process happening. But I think it's, I, I think it's really interesting just listening to you read this and reading through it, and I guess this is a question I haven't asked and I, I need to study a little bit more. It's crazy to me in verse 41, um, Christ seems the, the, the, um, Matthew seems to say here, and maybe I need to do a little bit more Greek study, so bear with me and, and have grace if I'm wrong here. Matthew seems to say that like Christ asks the people he's speaking to, the Pharisees he's speaking to, what is he gonna do to these people? And the Pharisees answer, he's gonna put those wretches to a miserable death.  [00:36:36] Jesse Schwamb: Right?  [00:36:37] Tony Arsenal: Like the people listening to this parable understand the outcome, like they understand the. The consequence that the, the, the vineyard owner or the vineyard tenant tenants are facing based on their lack of faithfulness to the covenant. To me, that is like a really striking part of this parable. And, and it's not even like the parable proper, but like the striking element of the context of this is that nobody listening to this parable, including the Pharisees that this parable has basically spoken against, nobody fails to see the gravity of the consequence of rejecting God's emissary, like rejecting the Messiah. That to me is like a really, I dunno, paradigmatic. Portion of this that I think we need to grapple with. This is not an unclear, an unclear outcome. This is not, this is not masked or vague or OPA opaque. Like everybody understands, the people who reject the Messiah are going to face dire and eternal consequences for that act. [00:37:48] Jesse Schwamb: That does make this really interesting, doesn't it? Because it's not just entirely like Romans one adventures or even Romans two. It's that this is what Jesus does and he does it in a profound way that's not trickery like I think kinda like you're saying like the lead up to this isn't as if he's even leading the witness. He's making it very clear, all like the parameters of the story and the characters involved and what should be the proper judgment. And it's not as if like they start saying, they're like, oh, we shouldn't say anything more like we, we plead the fifth because it's gonna condemn ourselves. He draws his audience in to producing and pronouncing like their own sentence. It's very much like, I think I mentioned this last time, the prophet Nathan and David, isn't it? It's the exact same. Yeah. And the verdict is unanswerable, like even in its own terms. These other, like these other vine growers, prefigures of course like the inclusion of the Gentiles and the apostolic office. But I like that what Jesus does here, even before he gets to that point, is he extorts from them an acknowledgement of the punishment which awaited them. And so in this way there's like, I think the Puritans use this passage a lot actually to demonstrate that the natural conscience even of like the unregenerate, still bears witness to divine justice. That's Romans two. Like they, they can't get out from underneath it and Jesus isn't using any trickery on them to get them to say this thing. They are compelled in their own way, even being unregenerate to, like you said, even as they're rejecting the Messiah to recognize that punishment is due these characters in the story, even as they perceive at the end that they are those characters. [00:39:21] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:39:22] Jesse Schwamb: Saying we'll receive the judgment.  [00:39:24] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:39:25] Usurpers Not Misguided [00:39:25] Tony Arsenal: And I think too, like, um, this is kind of one of those chicken or the egg scenarios, right? Like Christ is both recognizing the intention of their heart as well as prophesying. And, and not just prophesying, but like inception level prophesying the, the outcome of the intention of their heart. And so like, again, like we've, we spent a whole week kind of like leading into the parable and now we spent a whole week, we're gonna spend a whole week again kind of leading into the parable. This is such a deep parable, and that like Christ is not just laying bare. The fact that the, the people who were going to reject him were doing so out of this sort of like attempt and intention of usurping the kingdom of God for their own purposes. I think that brings a layer to this that we don't often appreciate in. Christ's interaction with the Pharisees. I think sometimes, and maybe this is because I just listened to an episode of where Matt Whitman on the 10 minute Bible hour talked about this. I think sometimes we actually have a tendency to sort of be sympathetic to the Pharisees where we think, you know, they were, they were just trying to obey God's law and they got a little sideways on it and you know, they were putting these boundaries in place, but they were doing it in this sort of like misguided attempt to protect the people. Christ actually here seems to contradict that in that the comparison he's making is not to a, a well-intentioned group of people who just get it wrong, but he's painting the Pharisees, the, the religious leaders, the Sadducees, the chief priests. He's painting them as these usurpers who recognize the proper authority of right. The master and his emissaries and ultimately of his son, they recognize this proper authority and rather than submitting to it and submitting to the covenant obligations that they, they already actually agreed to, instead of doing that, they're going to reject that authority and try to take it for their own right. It's not just that they do the wrong thing, it's that they recognize the heir, which is Christ. They recognize this heir and they kill him to try to take his place. That is a really heavy element of this parable. Christ is not painting. Um, the, the, the Pharisees here, the, the religious leaders. He's not painting them as um, well-intentioned, but ultimately wrong, which is I think a lot of times, and I think there's reason to do this right. I'm not being overly critical and I've done this, I've actually done this myself, and I think there's some. Space for it. Like the Pharisees were wrong, but they were wrong, kind of in the right direction sometimes. Um, Christ is not really on board with that, at least in this parable. Right. This isn't about them thinking that the heir was a threat, and so killing the threat in, you know, inadvertently this is them absolutely seeing who the hair, who the heir is, and intentionally deciding to reject that heir and to murder him and to try to take his inheritance. Mm-hmm. That's an affront to not only the heir who they murder, but an affront to the owner of the vineyard himself, which of course in this parable is figured to be God the father primarily. But God in sort of general terms, like the whole Godhead, um, with Christ as the second Adam has, as his representative, as his heir. This is a really heavy parable and I think where this comes into play for us in our own Christian life is. Are there times where we. Sort of do the same thing in refusing to, maybe it's tie into your denial a little bit. Like refusing to acknowledge our own sinfulness, refusing to acknowledge the ways that God has provided for us. Um, do we at times look at what we have and lay claim to it as though it is our own inheritance that we've taken? Um, right. Do we kind of crucify the son of God anew in, in refusing to repent of our sins particularly? I dunno. I think those are some open questions for us to kind of explore as we dig into this a bit more. [00:43:54] Jesse Schwamb: And that may relate as well to, well eventually at some point, I dunno, like 2040, get to like the parable of the talents. There's some similarity there with a little bit, right? You're saying? I think you're right.  [00:44:06] God Does All the Verbs [00:44:06] Jesse Schwamb: And where I think we can anchor some of that is in those first couple of verses. I'm really always impressed by really the number of action verbs that are packed within, like that just initial statement of Jesus explaining the situation. [00:44:19] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:44:19] Jesse Schwamb: So he sets it all up and he's saying there's a planting that goes on, this landowner puts up a wall, digs a wine press. Builds a tower and then RINs it. So there's all these like amazing things being done, all this action verb. And I, I think in part why he comes against the Pharisees so hard in the same way that we're looking at like the parable that, uh, the, uh, talents for instance of saying like, what did you do with that was entrusted to you was like this great treasure which Christ has entrusted or God has entrusted to his people, which is, is the gospel essentially is, is all a prophetic witness, is like the truth of who God is and his revelation of himself. And so I think. The first thing we gotta see in those verbs is that there's this emphasis that the vineyard was God's sovereign creation. You know, he plants it, he chose it, he established it. Israel didn't plant herself. She was planted. And that sovereign initiative is foundational, I think in, like you're saying, the parables indictment, because these vine growers, they don't possess anything that they did not receive. Right. You know, they did not find a vineyard already planted, but God himself made it from the wilderness that all his glory, all the glory might be his. So. I think it's helpful for us to observe that the church is always the planting of the Lord and that no congregation flourishes that is not first planted by God. And so there is a major offense here when those who are to care for it, who know, like you're saying, that they ought to care for it, who understand something about the hierarchy and the way it has been entrusted to them. Not to only break that covenant, but then seek to try to usurp the power in the roles of those whom they should be, quite frankly, in our own language, like under shepherds too. And so it starts with all, all those verbs. Like I think we could probably spend a. A lot of times just speaking about what does it mean? Why? Why is there all this explicit in particular language about the fact that there's a hedge and there's a press besides just these are part in piece mail or part and parcel of what it means to have a vineyard, apparently, but that they're all part of this narrative of God talking about how he protects and cares for his people and sets them in a place and chooses them and is particular about the construction and does so with great volition and authority and care and concern and creative ability. And then again, you have those who are meant there to do the very job that he's entrusted them with. And not only are they not doing that, and of course you're right. Jesus elsewhere, comes in, comes in hot, right, with a Pharisees saying like, listen, you set burdens on people's backs that you yourselves cannot lift. You're twice as in the hell as anybody else, and that's who you are. Yeah. It's not just hypocrisy, but you're literally setting people up to fail in this. So you can see how you're right. It's not just like, guys, I appreciate that. Like you wanted to set up some additional boundaries and maybe you took it a little bit too far. This parable is just scorched earth. It's, it's nuclear. Yeah.  [00:47:10] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:47:11] Scandalous Vineyard Setup [00:47:11] Tony Arsenal: And you know, I think, um, we are obviously gonna spend another week on this 'cause we still have not really addressed a single verse in this parable. I, I think like a lot of ink has been spilled on explaining sort of like the feal agricultural arrangements of this passage. What it represents. M my understanding is. A typical arrangement would be that a, a landowner would basically just lease out land and the tenants would be responsible for the planting, for the development. Right. And the, the, the landowner would essentially just collect a portion of whatever they produce. Right. This parable is actually taking this a step further. Exactly. That it's not as though the landowner just says like, all right, you can use this land. Right. And I own the land, so I get a portion of the pro, the profit. He's actually done all the work. Yes. And all that. The, all that the, the tenants need to do essentially is reap the harvest and then provide the portion of the harvest that belongs to the landowner, and so there is a greater investment. Of the landowner into this land than would be expected. We've commented in the past about how a lot of times the, the parables start on sort of a premise of shock. Like there's a, there's an element of the setup of the, of the parable where the audience would kind of like sit back and gasp or kind of be like, wait a second. Like that's not normal. Right. In the parable of the, the, um, lost son, it was the idea that like the son demanded his inheritance. And that wasn't the shocking part. The shocking part was that the father just granted it. Right. Or, um, the lost sheep, like the, there's actually a sort of a shocking element to the fact that like the, the land, the like sheep owner would just go get this other sheep. So we've, we've commented on there's kind of like. There's sort of like a scandalous setup. The scandalous setup in this is not that the land has been leased to tenants, right? It's that the land has been prepared for the tenants before it was leased out in the first place. And I think that's something we might miss if we read over this too quickly, is. The landowner has prepared everything for these, these tenants.  [00:49:30] Jesse Schwamb: That's right.  [00:49:31] Tony Arsenal: So the, the, at the, the punchline of the parable where they refuse to acknowledge the sovereignty of, um, sovereignty and maybe a lowercase s in the, in the context of the parable, they refuse to acknowledge the sovereignty and the rightful claim of the tenant or of the landowner on the, the profit of the land. And sort of like highlighter emphasized by the fact that they actually didn't do any of the work. There's a certain kind of like Amer, like American rugged individualism where we're kind of like, yeah, like if I planted all the crops, then it's kind of lame that this guy's coming in expecting to take a portion of it, right? Like, yeah, I guess he owns the land, so maybe he gets a little piece of it, but like, who does he think he is? All of that already is already short circuited. Like I. The, these tenants are not actually, um, portrayed as doing anything in this parable. That's right. Like they just lease the land. They, they, um, and leased is not really like the right. The right word, the, the Greek word is omi, which is like he gave over the land to them. Um, when we say leased, we have this idea that like the tenants pay to use the land and then like part of their contract is that whatever profits they reap, uh, off the land goes back to the, to the landowner. This is really more like the landowner graciously allowed them to live on this land, and the only payment he required was that they would eventually provide him part of the profit back. Like he's planted the land, he's put up the fence around it. He dug the wine press so that they could make a product out of it. He built the tower so it would be defended. Yes. And he gave it over to them essentially just to like live on until it was time for the harvest. And all he is asking for is basically like, alright, so this is my land. I've planted the vineyards, the profit is mine to have. And so when the time came for him to come claim that that's where they have now rejected him. Yes. That's where they've now said like, I know you did all the work and really graciously allowed us to live in this land, but we're gonna keep all of it for ourselves. That's the scandal of this. That's what I think like the original audience would've set up and like, wait a second here. Like, hold on. They didn't even plant the vineyards themselves. They didn't even build the tower themselves. That's really the force of this that I think we miss when we, when we overemphasize, trying to think through like what the original agricultural arrangements were. 'cause this is painted. Very different than what the original arrangements would've been typical for. Like this is a different scenario and I think intentionally so,  [00:52:09] Jesse Schwamb: and we need those words like rented, at least in English, to help us understand that it didn't belong to them. It wasn't a gift, right? It wasn't as if like it was just turned over in the sense that it belongs to you now do with it what you will. And it's very clear in the passage one, like you said, that the landowner does all those things. So it was a, you know, he completely set it up. I mean, this is just such a beautiful, I think, depiction of the hold of prophetic, you know, understanding of God's word here, but it's very clear that says the, he sent his slaves to the vine growers to receive his fruit. So you're right. The scandal is that they're like, well, obviously. They need to give him his fruits, like  [00:52:48] Tony Arsenal: right.  [00:52:48] Jesse Schwamb: It was all set up before he left on this long journey. He then turned it over to them to care for, and that was really all that they were supposed to do. They had no role in this. And so it does like lead us in into this weird space where it's like, well, well what, what did the Pharisees think they were trying to do themselves? What does actually Jesus commenting on, on their own, like licit on their own initiative here, is he basically saying that not only are they not respecting his sovereignty, but they were trying to claim for themselves what only rightly belongs to God that even their position right. Society in culture as their representatives, God himself, they wanted to take that over for themselves, which he does bring that condemnation upon them in other parts of the scripture. So again, this is really hot. I think it's a, it's both heat and light, but there's no doubt that there's fire to this, right? Because it's a direct indictment that God the father set all of this up. You yourselves are on rented property, but guess what? Even the property that you've rented, I'm not exacting a tax from you as if like you have put forward and grown or supplied or created some kind of profitable outcome here. And I just want a piece of that. He's not even talking about tithing in that sense. What he's basically saying is, none of this belongs to you. Like how? Right? How dare you? None of this is yours. I set all of this up and in fact, because you've done so poor poorly at this, I'm gonna take it away from you and give it to those who actually produce fruit and guess what's gonna be the Gentiles? So it's, there's a wild. Amounts of condemnation packed into a very small story.  [00:54:19] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. It really is.  [00:54:22] Tenants Add Nothing [00:54:22] Tony Arsenal: Um, there is nothing expected of these tenants. Right. There's no contract, like there's no terms, they, they really add nothing to the, the landowner's land, except I guess maybe they're the ones harvesting these, this fruit. Right. But even that's not explicit in the parable.  [00:54:43] Jesse Schwamb: Exactly.  [00:54:43] Tony Arsenal: Right. Right. He, he does all just to steal your thunder, like he does all the verbs. Yes. All of the ves are done by the landowner.  [00:54:50] Jesse Schwamb: Yes. Right  [00:54:51] Tony Arsenal: on. There is an implication that the, the tenants are somehow like the ones harvesting this, or they're the ones producing the wine, I guess, in the wine vat or the wine press. But at the end of the day. A normal tenant landowner agreement would be, I'm, you're, first of all, you're probably gonna pay me to use this land, right? You're paying me to use this land, and the way you pay me is you're gonna plant the, the gr the crop. You're gonna harvest it. You're gonna make the produce, and all I'm gonna do is let you live on this land. I'm gonna take the pro, like the profit, you're gonna pay me outta that profit. There is nothing asked or expected of these, th

In this powerful episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony and Jesse dive deep into Matthew 21:33-46, examining Jesus's parable of the wicked tenants. The hosts unpack how Christ masterfully draws the Pharisees into pronouncing their own condemnation, revealing not merely theological error but intentional usurpation of God's authority. Through careful exegesis, they explore the shocking setup of the parable—where the landowner does all the work while the tenants contribute nothing—and how this mirrors God's sovereign initiative in salvation. The discussion touches on confession, the value of full-time ministry, and the scandal of rejecting the Messiah despite recognizing His authority. This episode challenges listeners to examine whether they, like the Pharisees, attempt to claim God's work as their own. Key Takeaways God Does All the Verbs: The parable emphasizes that the landowner planted, built, protected, and prepared everything—the tenants contributed nothing yet claimed ownership of the fruit. Self-Pronounced Condemnation: Jesus draws the Pharisees into declaring their own judgment, demonstrating that even the unregenerate conscience bears witness to divine justice (Romans 2). Intentional Usurpation, Not Mere Error: The Pharisees weren't well-intentioned but misguided; they recognized Christ's authority as the heir and deliberately murdered Him to seize His inheritance. The Scandal of Grace: The parable's shocking element is that the landowner prepared everything before leasing the land—far exceeding normal agricultural arrangements and illustrating God's unmerited favor. Ecclesial Support for Ministry: The OPC presbytery's decision to fund a full-time call demonstrates how church structure can honor the ministry of Word and sacrament by freeing ministers from worldly distractions. Particular Repentance Matters: Westminster Confession 15.5 teaches that believers should not content themselves with general repentance but "endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly." The Stone Rejected Becomes Chief: Christ's citation of Psalm 118 reveals that the very rejection by the builders (religious leaders) was God's plan to establish the cornerstone of salvation. Key Concepts God Does All the Verbs The concentration of action verbs attributed solely to the landowner in Matthew 21:33 is theologically significant. The landowner plants, builds, digs, and rents—creating a fully functional, productive vineyard before the tenants ever arrive. This arrangement differs radically from typical first-century agricultural practices, where tenants would lease raw land and develop it themselves, sharing profits with the landowner. Jesus deliberately presents an extraordinary scenario where the tenants receive everything prepared and ready, requiring only stewardship of what already exists. This parallels God's sovereign initiative in election and salvation: believers contribute nothing to their standing before God, receiving instead a fully accomplished redemption. The Pharisees' rebellion wasn't against burdensome requirements but against simply acknowledging God's rightful ownership of what He alone created. Intentional Usurpation, Not Mere Error The hosts challenge the common sympathetic reading of the Pharisees as well-intentioned legalists who simply got sidetracked. Instead, verse 38 reveals the tenants explicitly recognize the son as heir and plot to murder him to "seize his inheritance." This isn't accidental rejection but calculated rebellion. The Pharisees weren't confused about Jesus's identity or authority—they understood precisely who He claimed to be and deliberately chose to destroy Him rather than submit. This interpretation carries significant weight for understanding the nature of unbelief: it's not primarily intellectual confusion but volitional rebellion. The religious leaders didn't need more evidence or clearer teaching; they needed transformed hearts. This same dynamic appears whenever humans recognize divine truth yet choose self-sovereignty over submission to God's rightful claim on their lives. The Scandal of Grace The parable begins with a scandalous premise that would have startled Jesus's original audience. Unlike normal tenant farming arrangements where landowners simply provided land in exchange for a share of whatever the tenants produced through their own labor, this landowner invests everything. He doesn't just own the property—he plants the vineyard, constructs the protective wall, digs the wine press for production, and builds the watchtower for defense. The tenants receive a turnkey operation requiring minimal effort. This extravagant preparation mirrors God's unmerited favor toward Israel and, by extension, the church. God didn't merely create humanity and wait to see what we would produce; He established covenants, sent prophets, preserved His Word, and ultimately sent His Son—all before requiring any response. The only "payment" demanded is acknowledging His ownership of what He created. The parable thus exposes the absurdity and ingratitude of claiming God's work as our own achievement. Memorable Quotes God does all the verbs. All of the verbs are done by the landowner. There is nothing expected of these tenants—they really add nothing to the landowner's land. Christ is not painting the Pharisees as well-intentioned but ultimately wrong. He's painting them as usurpers who recognize the proper authority and rather than submitting to it, they're going to reject that authority and try to take it for their own. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly. (Westminster Confession 15.5) Transcript Welcome to episode 491 of the Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.  [00:01:12] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother.  [00:01:17] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother.  [00:01:18] Parable of Tenants [00:01:18] Jesse Schwamb: So picture this, Tony, your landlord. You've built the perfect vineyard. We're talking wall watchtower, wine, press, the works like what everybody says. Everybody knows you need all those things. You've got it all set up, and then you hand the keys to some tenants. You take a long trip, you go enjoy yourself. And when the harvest rolls around, you send your servants to collect the rent. And shockingly, your tenants, they beat. Stone. Another, the kill a third. So naturally you think, you know what? I'll fix this. Lemme just send more people. That's obviously the problem. There's some kind of just profound misunderstanding about what's going on here and about our relationship in this business. And then when that doesn't work, you send your son now loved ones. If this were a business strategy, we would already be calling hr. But of course it's not a business strategy, it's a parable. And Jesus is telling it to the very people about to prove the parable true. So welcome back to the Reformed Brotherhood because we're in Matthew Chapter 21 and we're gonna be actually getting all the way into the parable of the Vine growers where the patience of God looks, I would say, to almost anybody else, to humanize at least almost reckless until you realize that's exactly the point. So yeah, grab your beverage of choice, grab your Bible, pull the car over, will you? Because this is gonna get real and we're going to reason together. But before we do all of that, let's do a little affirming with or denying against, what do you got?  [00:02:41] Inside Baseball Affirmation [00:02:41] Tony Arsenal: So this is a sort of inside baseball, uh, affirmation. Um, I'm not sharing anything, although it may feel like I'm sharing something that is private and like, uh, like confidential. It's not No, this is good. Um, so I had the opportunity to visit. Um, my presbytery, um, for those who are listeners of the show or people who like, have been with us a long time, um, I was part of a Baptist church. Uh, I've always kind of been a Presbyterian at heart, but, um, our church closed, uh, a little over a year and a half ago now. And, um, uh, I've joined an OPC congregation in membership now. We've been members there for about a year. And, um, so I've been visiting Presbytery, which is the, the meeting of all of the leadership of all of the churches. So we won't do a polity breakdown here, but basically like, it's, it's the regional meeting. It's the regional business meeting or church meeting for a group of churches in the OPC, the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. And so a lot of the meetings, you know, have the normal kind of business type stuff. You have reports from different committee committees and stuff. Um.  [00:03:48] Presbytery Call Debate [00:03:48] Tony Arsenal: Where this is affirmation is coming in here is at this most recent presbytery meeting, um, was pretty heavy on, um, licensing or, or, uh, not licensing on approving men who had received a call to formal ministry within the presbytery. And so in the OPC, and I would imagine that other Presbyterian bodies are not like super different, although I'm sure there's some variation in the OPC. Um, when a church intends to extend a call to a pastor, to a teaching elder, um, to a minister, they must have the call, which is. Is both theological but is also eminently practical. Like the call is a physical piece of paper that details, you know, what the pay is, how much vacation time. So it's kind of a combination between like a theological call and also a contract. Um, the presbytery has to approve that call. And so at this most recent one, there was a couple calls that were more or less uncontroversial. There was no question about them, and they were approved pretty quickly. But there was one call, um, one call to ministry that took, I, I, I didn't time it, but it was probably like four or five hours of debate and discussion in various fashion in order to get to a point where the presbytery could approve the call. So this was a call to a minister who is being called part-time, which is unusual in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Um, the OPC uh, acknowledges the fact that bivocational tent making ministry is sometimes a necessity, but really views the ministry of the word in sacrament as something that should not have. Distractions. And actually our book of church order talks about, doesn't use the word distraction, I think, but it talks about a, a properly ordered call to a full-time minister includes phrasing that the congregation promises to compensate them in a way that allows them to be free of worldly burdens and cares. And I might have not, not have gotten that wording exactly right. But that's the idea. And so this call was. Explicitly, um, not a full-time call it, they actually took the language out of promising to pay him in a way that he's able to ignore or to not be distracted by worldly care. And that was intentional, but there was a lot of question in discussion at presbytery level about the fact that the call did not include the phrase or the wording of part-time or bivocational. So the conversation started out of like, can this call be modified to include that? So it's explicitly known in this man's call that his calling is part-time, which is both theological, to make sure that the call is properly formatted, but also like very practical that the congregation should acknowledge explicitly that they recognize that this person is not, not going to be putting, you know, 40 hours a week or 50 hours a week towards this position. [00:06:34] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:06:34] Tony Arsenal: Um. What I'm affirming is where it got to, right? So there was lots of discussion about that. There was some finagling about the retirement package. The OPC recommends that a, a minister be given a retirement contribution of no less than 5% a year of his salaried package. Um, which there's a couple line items that go into that, but 5%, and this was a little bit less than that. And this is what I'm affirming and this, I, I don't know that this is a super widespread thing that would happen all across the, um, the OPC, but it happened in the presbytery of New York and New England this past week, and it's just amazing. And I just, I just want to lay it out there and then I want to hear your reaction. [00:07:13] Funding Full Time Ministry [00:07:13] Tony Arsenal: And I, I wanna hear your reaction as the son of a minister who labored his entire adult, more or less, his entire adult career in ministry, working two or three additional jobs on top of his ministry, the presbytery decided. That because it did not like the idea of a part-time minister. They didn't think that was appropriate. They didn't think that that was good or that that was really the right goal. The presbytery allocated, I'm not gonna say the figures 'cause they're not super germane, but allocated a significant amount of money to be dis to be dispersed to the church for the next three years in order to take what was a part-time call and enable it to become a full-time call. [00:07:54] Jesse Schwamb: Wow.  [00:07:54] Tony Arsenal: And so there are a lot of, there are a lot of church bodies that would say, yeah, we don't love the idea of bi-vocational ministry. You know, we really think it's ideal that a minister could be full-time. Um, they may even put some, some theological freight behind that. Um, I have never encountered a body, um. That was willing to put a sizable amount of money towards essentially supplementing a part-time call to make it full-time. Um, this was just amazing to me, and the candidate was there. I didn't get a chance to talk to him, but I would love to talk to him about what he felt. I, I can just imagine the phone call to his wife who was not, not at presbytery, but to his wife, following the outcome of this to be like, you are never gonna believe what just happened. Right? This is a family who was intending to move across country. Right. He's currently a student at Westminster, California in seminary, uh, California, Westminster Seminary in California, finishing his M Div. They're planning a cross country move into a part-time position where she's probably gonna have to find a job, and then also he's gonna have to find a part-time job. He had the ability to call her on the break and be like, you're never gonna guess what just happened? You're never gonna,  [00:09:09] Jesse Schwamb: it's wild.  [00:09:09] Tony Arsenal: Uh, sorry, I'm getting a little emotional here. You're never going to. Believe how faithful God is in this. Right. So I'm interested to hear your reaction to that as the son of a, of a try and quad at times Quad vocational. Yeah,  [00:09:23] Jesse Schwamb: for sure.  [00:09:23] Tony Arsenal: Minister who labored his entire, more or less, his entire adult career, um, working full-time in a call as a part-time, part-time minister. You know, like that's a, that's a crazy situation. So I'm just affirming that again, I don't know how common that kind of thing is in the OPC. I don't wanna make it seem like that's the norm. Um, I actually get the sense that this is probably not the norm, but it was amazing to see and it made me in intensely like. Proud in the right way of being a part of this broader body that would, would so emphasize and so value the ministry of the word and the sacrament, and the importance of a man being able to dedicate himself to that without distraction. That they would put forward this amount of money and this kind of money. They had no reason to do so. And there's no real direct benefit to the presbytery for doing this. I mean, there's an indirect benefit of like not having a church with a part-time minister, but like there's no direct benefit to this. There's no direct return on investments that's gonna come out of this. Um, it was pretty amazing to see. It was, it was, it was super encouraging.  [00:10:28] Jesse Schwamb: That is really encouraging. I, I think it's, there's no doubt that for the called pastor, their heart is in the ministry of the word. That's what they want to be doing. They wanna be doing it all the time and as much time as they possibly can, and they wanna be able to have all of their intentional focus on it. So I. I'm excited for that guy. I mean, that's just an incredible blessing to go in hoping for funding, essentially for a part-time role and to basically be told, no, no, no, no, that's, that's not enough. We want you to be committed to this fully as we know your heart is committed. As we validated that call.  [00:11:00] Why Structure Matters [00:11:00] Jesse Schwamb: I do love being a part of churches, well, lemme say it this way. There is, I think, a benefit of being part of congregations that have like a wide resource network that has like appropriate hierarchy and structure and that can be one of them. I've seen something similar in the Christian Missionary Alliance, which is the church that I'm in, not exactly the same, but I've seen some surprising allocations of resources where they basically said, you know, this is important. Like, it even trumps we're, we're gonna. Allocate or resource something so that this can move forward because it is important in a way that was like better than the person who was bringing it before them could have hoped for. Yeah. And uh, suddenly it's as if everything aligned. And it was really in part because there was this structure to come alongside, to validate as you're saying, and then to authenticate and then again to resource assets that could be used. There's, there's something to be said for that interdependency where there is kind of this hierarchical structure in which all that's happening at a level where things are codified. And again, like there's a structure and a way in which we move through those decisions to make sure that they suit the objective of the entire movement. So I guess there's nothing I'll say, but that's a beautiful thing, isn't it?  [00:12:14] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:12:15] Generosity in Action [00:12:15] Tony Arsenal: It was, it was, it was cool because it was like this, it was like this real. Actualization of the principle of outdoing one another and showing honor. Yeah, sure. Because you know, like the initial debate was like, Hey, you know, I'm not sure we can approve this call because the, the OPCs guidelines tell us not to approve a call that has less than 5% of the retirement benefit. And there was a lot of discussion of like, well, the presbytery can't modify the call, but we don't wanna delay this guy coming in and like, we don't wanna delay his ordination, his installation. And so the initial proposal was a, a. What feels like a large amount of money to me. But after I understood more about the, the budget of what's going on in, in the presbytery was actually a very small amount of money. Started with a very tiny, very modest proposal of basically like supplementing the retirement fund to make sure that like we could, they, I say we, like, I was part of this, I was just observing, but to supplement the retirement fund in a way that allowed the church to still proceed with the call as written, but still also make sure that this person had the appropriate retirement fund. And then that just basically was like, there would be some instruction given to the church that like, you've gotta bump this up in the next budget cycle. Like you've gotta get to the 5%. That's, that's the expectation. It went from that. And like I said, I won't give you the specific numbers, but one of the presbyters and I, I'm, I, um, I, I've known this presbyter from a distance for quite a long time and, and I have an immense amount of respect for him. He stood up and he's like, well, if we're gonna give X, why don't we just give 10 times X instead? And then actually, like the discussion was like, well, is, are we sure that 10 times X is even the right amount? Why don't we have this particular group meet over the lunch break and figure out whether that's the right number and then come back after lunch and we'll vote on it. And then they came back after lunch and it was actually a number that was even greater than 10 times X. So it was like this exercise in like. This very small proposal that was still imminently generous, right? The presbytery has no obligation to do this. There's no obligation from any of the presbyters to stand up and say like, we should. We should supplement this fund. They would've been well within their right, and no one would've looked, I think. I think some people would've been frustrated by it, but I don't think anyone would've looked sideways at it or thought it was sinful. If the presbytery just said like, we can't approve this call. You guys are gonna have to come back with it and we'll vote on it at the next presbytery. Like that would've been problematic. This, this kind of poor guy who's coming outta seminary, his call and his beginning of employment would've been delayed, but like. That would've been good and orderly, but instead they were like, one, we don't want this pulpit to stay empty longer. We don't wanna disadvantage this guy who's just getting done with seminary. We want him to get started. We don't wanna discourage him. So here's a small proposal, a very modest amount of money that we can put forward for this purpose. And then it was like, let's just keep seeing how much closer to a real full-time call we can get. And they finally came back and said like, we're gonna do this. We're gonna do this in a wise fashion. They structured it. So like the first year he gets more, the second year he gets a little bit less. The third year the church gets a little bit less with the idea that like each year the church should be adjusting their budget to compensate and get this guy to that with the, the hope that like with a full-time minister, they're able to grow their congregation to the point where they can support a full-time minister. So it was just this really cool, super encouraging exercise. And what I loved about it is the only real debate that was going on was about do we need to do more? There was no one being like, wait a second, why are we, why are we putting more money to this? The whole thing was like, is this actually enough to accomplish what we think God wants to do with this person's call? Because if, if God is truly calling this man to this, this particular church, and we believe that he is. Then what do we as a, as a people of God need to do to enable that call to look like what we actually believe calls to ministry are supposed to look like, which is a full-time call to ministry that is undistracted by the cares of the world. What do we need to do? The answer in this case was like, I think we need to put a sizable amount of money to it. Um, it's a, I mean, and again. I'm not gonna say it on the air. It was not a small chunk of change. Um, it was, it was a, it was a large amount of money that was devoted to this cause and that just goes to show how much this body values the importance of a full-time minister of the word, so. [00:16:50] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:16:51] OPC Love and Recommendation [00:16:51] Tony Arsenal: That's enough about that. I, I could gush about how proud I am to be a part of this body and how encouraged I am and how amazing it was and how awesome this, this guy, how, how much this guy must be thanking God for the providence and like, this is the last thing. I'll say this, this young man younger than me, I think he's graduating seminary. I saw him across the room. He looks like he's probably in his mid twenties, right? Young guy. He's got a wife doesn't have kids yet coming into this ministry, not only is he coming into this ministry, but as a Presbyterian minister, when he's installed as the minister of this church. He will be joining this body of presbyters as the, as his brothers like. He is not a member of the local church. He's a member of the presbytery, which is the regional church. So now he's coming into this fully supported by his brothers in the presbytery that he saw go to the mat to make sure he was properly taken care of, that the congregation was not unintentionally taking advantage of his labor, but also that he knows that all of these men are willing to do what they need to do to make sure that his ministry is successful and edifies the church like that is. Uh, I don't want to gush on Presbyterianism too much, but like that is Presbyterianism at peak form, right? This is the body of elders making sure that every church in the region, even the ones they're not directly ministering in, has what it needs to succeed and to honor God and to do what needs to happen. So I'm affirming the presbytery of New York and New England and the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Um, I have been so blessed by knowing many of these presbyters. I've been so blessed by being a part of the congregation that I am. There are lots of really great churches and really great denominations out there. If you are looking for a church and there is an OPC congregation in your area, absolutely go check it out. I know it feels stuffy sometimes, and I will admit, like sometimes it feels a little bit overly traditional in terms of like just the vibe of the congregation,  [00:18:52] Jesse Schwamb: right?  [00:18:52] Tony Arsenal: But press past that because I don't think, I don't think you will find, um. You may find lots of congregations that are as faithful. I don't think you're gonna find many that are more faithful than your average OPC congregation. So I could be wrong. I just, I just love the OPC. I just really, really love it. So that's my affirmation. What do you got for us, Jesse?  [00:19:18] Denial Catholic Confession Math [00:19:18] Jesse Schwamb: I think I got denial, which is maybe a little bit unusual for me. [00:19:21] Tony Arsenal: As long as you're not denying the OPCI think we're fine.  [00:19:23] Jesse Schwamb: No, it's, it's not, it is church related and I, I'll try to keep it short 'cause I think I can make this way longer than it, it probably should be, but lemme think how to phrase this. So, I don't know with a devil negative, I guess when I'm a denying against is maybe not enough confession by your own standard. So the, I'm gonna try to make this so brief. I, I just happened to be out with my wife this afternoon and we had to run errands. We got stuck in traffic and this gave me longer than usual to sit in front of our. Very local and very large Catholic church. So I happen to be looking at their sign. It's a very large congregation. I've been actually been in this one on a couple of occasions for funerals. So not only do I know its size and scope, but again, if you get, if you get on this road at the wrong time on the Lord's day, you're gonna be stuck for a long time because there are so many people that attend. I say that because I noticed on the sign that there were three times for mass on the Lord's Day. So that also says something about the number of people coming through. And then on the sign though, underneath it said for confessions, go to our website. Mm-hmm. So I was like, man, I gotta lick this up because I can't tell if they're telling me I can confess on the website or if it's go to the website for the times. And I said to my wife, only half jokingly, if I can confess online, I'm gonna confess something. So I went to, I went to the website and, and sure enough it was almost disappointingly. It was just the times.  [00:20:45] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:20:46] Jesse Schwamb: Here's what I've found interesting, which just launched me into this like deep rabbit hole. There were three times for confession. Two of those times were just a half an hour, and the third time was an hour. So, uh, what I did was I went through, actually, I think what they had on there was, was three full hours a week. It was a little bit confusing, but I think it was three full hours. Now I think about it. So I went back, I just couldn't help myself, Tony. So I started to think, alright, let's say. I think it's fair to assume  [00:21:15] Tony Arsenal: math, Jesse is kicking in right now. Yes. You're gonna calculate how many minutes per, per person is what you're doing. I'm thinking, ah,  [00:21:22] Jesse Schwamb: yeah, it's something like that. So what I thought was, I don't think it's, uh, I was gonna be conservative. I wanna be fair. I wanna be fair. So, and now we should say like, I think most people realize that the Catholic understanding of confession and the Protestant one is, is very different. The Catholic sacrament of confession is the right through which Catholics are gonna confess their sins to a priest receive absolution, and it's gonna restore the relationship with God in the church. And, and they're gonna believe that the priest acts as a person of Christ and is bound by the seal of confession and an absolute kind of obligation. Uh, of course never to reveal what was disclosed during that process. So, by the way, the website that I went to, lovely instructions. I mean, I was like, wow. I was reading it to my wife who was, uh, not familiar with this at all, and she was like, they can make you do stuff. And I was like, well, yeah. I mean, obviously like there's, there's a portion of this where there's contrition or penant penance. It could be a prayer, it could be act of charity, like all kinds of stuff. So I went back and I thought. I don't think it's unreasonable that there's 350 persons that would say, let's say an average, uh, that would wanna take part of confession. Now, let's say that they did that at, at least monthly, just once a month. And, and I don't know how people's conviction is on that, but I'm gonna say conservatively once a month. Let's say that, and I don't think this is unreasonable, Tony, but you tell me. Let's say you're, you're trucking, you're moving through confession. Let's say it's five minutes a piece. So we're up to 1,750 minutes, uh, per month. That's the demand on the priest because I was, I was looking at this time and I was thinking something is strange here to me, so. That was the demand then, and I'll spare you the other math, which could be very long and un uninteresting. I'm coming up with, you'd need 2.24, two and a quarter priests, which of course you can't have a quarter priests or a quarter person for any reason. So you'd hire, you'd hire three priests, which satisfy the demand if, and the major assumptions here, that is like everybody can't show up at the same time. Obviously, I'm assuming that like everybody has their own time, they're spreading it out. So everybody gets the confession, but it's just five minutes. And I, I have no idea. I mean, if you're a Luther, that's certainly not sufficient time.  [00:23:20] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:23:20] Jesse Schwamb: And you would need three priests. Now here's the thing that I just kind of backed into that, besides like three being like, okay, that, that's, you would need three priests just to satisfy this congregation. If they're confessing for five minutes, once per month. Uh, by the way, if you said, well, half the congregation is going to go weekly, uh, then you, you would double the number of priests you need to 5.98 or six. But here's, here's the bottom line for me. This is why the denial comes in about maybe not enough, is. If you were just to distill that down to like, if you could have one priest cover that time, that there's a demand for like 779.4 hours, or excuse me, minutes of confession, that priest would only be allocating approximately like seven and a half percent of their working hours, their work toward handling confession. This seems like not enough confession given the standards of confession in the Catholic church. And again, I know that I'm, I'm now allocating that to one priest and I just told everybody you need three. That's true. So if you had these three now, if you hired three just to meet the demand, that would only be about like three and a half or a little under three and a half percent of their combined time. So the denial is Catholics, I think, unless I'm way off in some of my assumptions here, you might not be confessing enough by your own standards because  [00:24:33] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:24:34] Jesse Schwamb: Uh, that seems like not enough time.  [00:24:38] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:24:39] Ritual Faithfulness Explained [00:24:39] Tony Arsenal: I mean, I think, um. I don't want to be too bombastic here, but I think,  [00:24:46] Jesse Schwamb: I think I already started this on this  [00:24:48] Tony Arsenal: path. Maybe this, maybe this isn't all that bombastic. Um, because this is so much about ritual and actually I say this is gonna sound really, we, we go, but trying to think from the Roman Catholic perspective, it's actually not, and I'll I'll tell you a brief story, uh, to explain it. Um, a lot of Roman Catholics are just going through the motions. [00:25:13] Jesse Schwamb: That's true.  [00:25:14] Tony Arsenal: But the point, the, the, the point of contention actually is that going through the motions is valuable for the Roman Catholic, right? So I, I knew this, uh, this young woman when I was in college who was a Roman Catholic, and we had many discussions about, about the differences between Protestantism and and Roman Catholicism. And what I came to understand is that going to mass for her. Itself was an act of faith. And so for the Roman Catholic, the concept of, of faith is different than the concept that Protestants operate under. So for the Roman Catholic who, um, goes to mass, even when they feel like they're, like, when they think they're just going through the motions, going through the motions is itself the act of faith. And that's because for most of Roman Catholics, most of Roman Catholicism, faith really equals faithfulness, right? So, so doing the act is the act of faithfulness. Doing the act is faith. Where for the Protestant, like faith is about belief and trust and knowledge. Like it's, it's an. Not entirely intellectual, but it's, it's an inward thing for the Roman Catholic faith is an out is primarily an outward thing. It's what you do, it's how you act. It's faith formed in love. It's faith formed in charity.  [00:26:36] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:26:37] Tony Arsenal: So I think most Roman Catholics going to obligatory confession first. I think once a month is probably like, probably more frequent than most Roman Catholics go to mass or go to confession. Um, I thought I read a stat that it was like every six months is, is pretty average and I think that's what's required by the church maybe even once a year is, is required by the church. Um, I think like most Roman Catholics go into the, the confessional booth and like father forgive me for I've sinned. It's been such and such a number of days since my last confession. Right. And they may bring up a couple particular things that they've done and, and then I think the priest commonly absolves them of all of their sins. Like, almost like in an omnibus fashion and then prescribes their acts of penance, which is it, it like, honestly, it's probably things they should already be doing as a faithful Catholic saying Hail Marys and doing our fathers and acts of charity and things like that. So I think your math is probably right. [00:27:39] Protestant Repentance Particular [00:27:39] Tony Arsenal: I think your, your theory that more confession is probably like, I'm gonna read this from, uh, the Westminster confession, just to, just to say it here, is, this is chapter 15, which is titled of Repentance Under Life. And this is, uh, this is section five or paragraph five. It says, men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but is every man's duty to endeavor, to repent of his particular sins, particularly. And I think that's just such a beautifully phrased sentence like. Not only is it like potent theologically, but like, it just, it just feels good, like in terms of like the English language to repent of your particular sins, particularly. And like the idea is yes, Protestant reform, Christians affirm a general repentance from sin, right? We repent of our sin before the father, uh, as a result of our, of our coming to faith in Christ. And as part of our sanctification, we mortify our sin and we, Viv we are vivified by the spirit and repentance falls in that ongoing sanctification process. And there is this general repentance of like, I repent of the fact that I'm a sinner and that I commit sins, but there is this element in the reformed faith of like, I should be confessing to God. And I think by extension, like we should be confessing to our fellow Christians, our particular sins, our individual sins, and we should be doing that on particular occasion. And I think like. The Luther style confession of like going into the confessor and confessing like every particular sin. Particularly I think most Roman Catholic priests would, priests. Priests would probably have the same reaction Tobits did where he was like, get outta here. Like, come on dude. Like just go live your life and like deal with it. I think that's probably the reaction most Catholic priests would have. But yeah, I think you're right. Like if we're really talking about like. Five, five minutes of confession once a month and that somehow having some sort of spiritual efficacy. I'm not sure I buy that math. Like I think you're, you're probably spot on.  [00:29:47] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah.  [00:29:47] Confession Hours Oddities [00:29:47] Jesse Schwamb: I just was curious about how many priests would be required and then the allocation of the duties. By the way, you are right. So I, because I had to check on this, the, the fourth letter in council of 1215 does say that the church requires confession of any grave or mortal sins at least once a year. But the church, yeah, strongly encourages more frequent confession as a spiritual practice, even for, of course, like the venial or the less serious sins in their eyes. So yeah, my thought here was just that. I think it's actually undervalued by way of the math. Like the, as the kids say, the math just isn't math thing for me on this one. But I was more curious about, since this is one of the seven sacraments, even if you just said like, well, it should have at least one seven of the allocation. That's like, what? Like something like 14%. And so this is, um, almost half of that. I just found it a little bit, a little bit odd and yeah, I think you'd have to be, uh, so in other words, when I looked at the, basically, here's the bottom line. When I looked at the hours for confession one, there were weird times and uh, two, I was like, that doesn't seem like enough hours. Like, it was just more like that. Like how that's like saying like, Hey, the post office is open three hours a week, and by the way, one of those hours is from seven to eight o'clock on Friday. Like they had some hours. One hour just on Friday was like, I guess that's the way you wanna start your weekend is like, let's get all of this off my chest. Yeah. And, and do it. Right. And the last thing I'll say by the way, is you're correct. When you look at the instruction they give you, and this is common of course, toward the end, when they say like, here's how you like wrap up your part. Actually everybody should go read, go to the local, local Catholic church website and read the instructions. 'cause in some ways they're just interesting and kind of, um, I don't wanna say funny 'cause I'm not making fun. I'm just saying like, they have to give you instruction if you've never done it before. And so most of us are not really probably familiar with the process and they give you explicit instruction and toward the end it's like, here's how you kinda like hang up the call with the priest. And it's like you said, you know, these are my sins and all others, would you be willing to forgive? So you're right. Right. They just kinda wrap them all up because it's sins of omission, sense of commission, it's all to be together. But I, I wonder, you gotta think there's people in there that are like. The priests are like, okay, man, just yeah. Wrap, come on, wrap, wrap it up.  [00:31:55] Confession Timing Talk [00:31:55] Jesse Schwamb: And other people that come in are just like, you know, forgive me father. And uh, lastly to your point, when they give you instruction about how you should start, of course you're always to signify how long it's been since your last confession. Right. Confession. And they say parenthetically, like, reference the days, weeks, months, or years. So you're right. There are gonna be people that probably do it very frequently and probably people who do it infrequently still, I would say I just couldn't believe for a church this large, that there was just three hours a week.  [00:32:21] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:32:21] Jesse Schwamb: For everybody else.  [00:32:22] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:32:23] Vance and Papal Authority [00:32:23] Tony Arsenal: This leads me to two very brief sub, uh, denials slash affirmations. Uh, I don't know if you saw this, um, this is not a political statement, right? I, I have lots of feelings and thoughts about the current administration and I think most of my feelings and thoughts would surprise. Everybody. But I thought it was hilarious because JD Vance, who is a Roman Catholic, uh, confessed Roman Catholic part of the Roman Catholic Church, uh, he ha I, I'm not sure if I'm affirming or denying this, there was this funny, uh, funny exchange. I think he was at doing like a, doing like a TPU, I don't know, speech. He was doing a speech at some conservative event and he said something like, I think that the Pope should be more careful when he makes theological statements. I'm wanna be like, do you understand what the pope is in your religion? That was one of my sub denials. Uh, I don't remember what the other one is, so it must not have been that important. It'll come back to me at the worst possible moment and I will try very hard not to interrupt our show for it, but I probably will fail.  [00:33:25] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah.  [00:33:25] Reading Matthew 21 [00:33:25] Jesse Schwamb: Listen, we, we gotta get to some scripture because. We're, we're doing this old school style where we take like half the time and just talk about affirmations. It's true in house. It's true. Which is great fun. But let's, let's get back to Matthew 21. And I, I know we did this last time, but I am gonna rock through the passage 'cause of course, that's the best part of any of our discussion, is actually hearing from, from the Holy Spirit through the scripture, uh, which he's given to us. So this is, uh, Matthew 21, starting in verse 33. And you're gonna hear the, the whole thing right here. Uh, this is Jesus speaking. Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who planted a vineyard and put a wall around it and dug a wine press in it and built a tower and rented it out to vine growers and went on a journey. Now, when the high risk time approached, he sent his slaves to the vine growers to receive his fruit, and the vine growers took his slaves and beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. Again, he sent another group of slaves larger than the first, and they did the same thing to them. But afterward he sent his son to them saying they will respect my son. But when the vine growers saw the sun, they said among themselves, this is the heir. Come let us kill him and seize his inheritance, and they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine growers? They said to him, he will bring those wretches to a wretched end and will rent out the vineyard to other vine growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons. Jesus said to them, did you ever read in the scriptures the stone, which the builders rejected? This has become the chief cornerstone. This came about from the Lord, and it is marvelous in our eyes. Therefore, I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation producing the fruit of it. And he who falls in the stone will be broken to pieces, but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust. And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they understood that he was speaking about them. And although they were seeking to seize him, they feared the crowds because they're regarding him to be a prophet. [00:35:28] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:35:30] Pharisees Condemn Themselves [00:35:30] Tony Arsenal: This is like a super heavy parable. Right. And we talked a lot last week about how like the point of this parable is not necessarily to try to instruct the Pharisees or the Sadducees. Like it's not to instruct the people who were going to reject Christ, uh, the, the builders who would reject the cornerstone. It's really a parable to teach those. Who are observing this process happening. But I think it's, I, I think it's really interesting just listening to you read this and reading through it, and I guess this is a question I haven't asked and I, I need to study a little bit more. It's crazy to me in verse 41, um, Christ seems the, the, the, um, Matthew seems to say here, and maybe I need to do a little bit more Greek study, so bear with me and, and have grace if I'm wrong here. Matthew seems to say that like Christ asks the people he's speaking to, the Pharisees he's speaking to, what is he gonna do to these people? And the Pharisees answer, he's gonna put those wretches to a miserable death.  [00:36:36] Jesse Schwamb: Right?  [00:36:37] Tony Arsenal: Like the people listening to this parable understand the outcome, like they understand the. The consequence that the, the, the vineyard owner or the vineyard tenant tenants are facing based on their lack of faithfulness to the covenant. To me, that is like a really striking part of this parable. And, and it's not even like the parable proper, but like the striking element of the context of this is that nobody listening to this parable, including the Pharisees that this parable has basically spoken against, nobody fails to see the gravity of the consequence of rejecting God's emissary, like rejecting the Messiah. That to me is like a really, I dunno, paradigmatic. Portion of this that I think we need to grapple with. This is not an unclear, an unclear outcome. This is not, this is not masked or vague or OPA opaque. Like everybody understands, the people who reject the Messiah are going to face dire and eternal consequences for that act. [00:37:48] Jesse Schwamb: That does make this really interesting, doesn't it? Because it's not just entirely like Romans one adventures or even Romans two. It's that this is what Jesus does and he does it in a profound way that's not trickery like I think kinda like you're saying like the lead up to this isn't as if he's even leading the witness. He's making it very clear, all like the parameters of the story and the characters involved and what should be the proper judgment. And it's not as if like they start saying, they're like, oh, we shouldn't say anything more like we, we plead the fifth because it's gonna condemn ourselves. He draws his audience in to producing and pronouncing like their own sentence. It's very much like, I think I mentioned this last time, the prophet Nathan and David, isn't it? It's the exact same. Yeah. And the verdict is unanswerable, like even in its own terms. These other, like these other vine growers, prefigures of course like the inclusion of the Gentiles and the apostolic office. But I like that what Jesus does here, even before he gets to that point, is he extorts from them an acknowledgement of the punishment which awaited them. And so in this way there's like, I think the Puritans use this passage a lot actually to demonstrate that the natural conscience even of like the unregenerate, still bears witness to divine justice. That's Romans two. Like they, they can't get out from underneath it and Jesus isn't using any trickery on them to get them to say this thing. They are compelled in their own way, even being unregenerate to, like you said, even as they're rejecting the Messiah to recognize that punishment is due these characters in the story, even as they perceive at the end that they are those characters. [00:39:21] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:39:22] Jesse Schwamb: Saying we'll receive the judgment.  [00:39:24] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:39:25] Usurpers Not Misguided [00:39:25] Tony Arsenal: And I think too, like, um, this is kind of one of those chicken or the egg scenarios, right? Like Christ is both recognizing the intention of their heart as well as prophesying. And, and not just prophesying, but like inception level prophesying the, the outcome of the intention of their heart. And so like, again, like we've, we spent a whole week kind of like leading into the parable and now we spent a whole week, we're gonna spend a whole week again kind of leading into the parable. This is such a deep parable, and that like Christ is not just laying bare. The fact that the, the people who were going to reject him were doing so out of this sort of like attempt and intention of usurping the kingdom of God for their own purposes. I think that brings a layer to this that we don't often appreciate in. Christ's interaction with the Pharisees. I think sometimes, and maybe this is because I just listened to an episode of where Matt Whitman on the 10 minute Bible hour talked about this. I think sometimes we actually have a tendency to sort of be sympathetic to the Pharisees where we think, you know, they were, they were just trying to obey God's law and they got a little sideways on it and you know, they were putting these boundaries in place, but they were doing it in this sort of like misguided attempt to protect the people. Christ actually here seems to contradict that in that the comparison he's making is not to a, a well-intentioned group of people who just get it wrong, but he's painting the Pharisees, the, the religious leaders, the Sadducees, the chief priests. He's painting them as these usurpers who recognize the proper authority of right. The master and his emissaries and ultimately of his son, they recognize this proper authority and rather than submitting to it and submitting to the covenant obligations that they, they already actually agreed to, instead of doing that, they're going to reject that authority and try to take it for their own right. It's not just that they do the wrong thing, it's that they recognize the heir, which is Christ. They recognize this heir and they kill him to try to take his place. That is a really heavy element of this parable. Christ is not painting. Um, the, the, the Pharisees here, the, the religious leaders. He's not painting them as um, well-intentioned, but ultimately wrong, which is I think a lot of times, and I think there's reason to do this right. I'm not being overly critical and I've done this, I've actually done this myself, and I think there's some. Space for it. Like the Pharisees were wrong, but they were wrong, kind of in the right direction sometimes. Um, Christ is not really on board with that, at least in this parable. Right. This isn't about them thinking that the heir was a threat, and so killing the threat in, you know, inadvertently this is them absolutely seeing who the hair, who the heir is, and intentionally deciding to reject that heir and to murder him and to try to take his inheritance. Mm-hmm. That's an affront to not only the heir who they murder, but an affront to the owner of the vineyard himself, which of course in this parable is figured to be God the father primarily. But God in sort of general terms, like the whole Godhead, um, with Christ as the second Adam has, as his representative, as his heir. This is a really heavy parable and I think where this comes into play for us in our own Christian life is. Are there times where we. Sort of do the same thing in refusing to, maybe it's tie into your denial a little bit. Like refusing to acknowledge our own sinfulness, refusing to acknowledge the ways that God has provided for us. Um, do we at times look at what we have and lay claim to it as though it is our own inheritance that we've taken? Um, right. Do we kind of crucify the son of God anew in, in refusing to repent of our sins particularly? I dunno. I think those are some open questions for us to kind of explore as we dig into this a bit more. [00:43:54] Jesse Schwamb: And that may relate as well to, well eventually at some point, I dunno, like 2040, get to like the parable of the talents. There's some similarity there with a little bit, right? You're saying? I think you're right.  [00:44:06] God Does All the Verbs [00:44:06] Jesse Schwamb: And where I think we can anchor some of that is in those first couple of verses. I'm really always impressed by really the number of action verbs that are packed within, like that just initial statement of Jesus explaining the situation. [00:44:19] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:44:19] Jesse Schwamb: So he sets it all up and he's saying there's a planting that goes on, this landowner puts up a wall, digs a wine press. Builds a tower and then RINs it. So there's all these like amazing things being done, all this action verb. And I, I think in part why he comes against the Pharisees so hard in the same way that we're looking at like the parable that, uh, the, uh, talents for instance of saying like, what did you do with that was entrusted to you was like this great treasure which Christ has entrusted or God has entrusted to his people, which is, is the gospel essentially is, is all a prophetic witness, is like the truth of who God is and his revelation of himself. And so I think. The first thing we gotta see in those verbs is that there's this emphasis that the vineyard was God's sovereign creation. You know, he plants it, he chose it, he established it. Israel didn't plant herself. She was planted. And that sovereign initiative is foundational, I think in, like you're saying, the parables indictment, because these vine growers, they don't possess anything that they did not receive. Right. You know, they did not find a vineyard already planted, but God himself made it from the wilderness that all his glory, all the glory might be his. So. I think it's helpful for us to observe that the church is always the planting of the Lord and that no congregation flourishes that is not first planted by God. And so there is a major offense here when those who are to care for it, who know, like you're saying, that they ought to care for it, who understand something about the hierarchy and the way it has been entrusted to them. Not to only break that covenant, but then seek to try to usurp the power in the roles of those whom they should be, quite frankly, in our own language, like under shepherds too. And so it starts with all, all those verbs. Like I think we could probably spend a. A lot of times just speaking about what does it mean? Why? Why is there all this explicit in particular language about the fact that there's a hedge and there's a press besides just these are part in piece mail or part and parcel of what it means to have a vineyard, apparently, but that they're all part of this narrative of God talking about how he protects and cares for his people and sets them in a place and chooses them and is particular about the construction and does so with great volition and authority and care and concern and creative ability. And then again, you have those who are meant there to do the very job that he's entrusted them with. And not only are they not doing that, and of course you're right. Jesus elsewhere, comes in, comes in hot, right, with a Pharisees saying like, listen, you set burdens on people's backs that you yourselves cannot lift. You're twice as in the hell as anybody else, and that's who you are. Yeah. It's not just hypocrisy, but you're literally setting people up to fail in this. So you can see how you're right. It's not just like, guys, I appreciate that. Like you wanted to set up some additional boundaries and maybe you took it a little bit too far. This parable is just scorched earth. It's, it's nuclear. Yeah.  [00:47:10] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:47:11] Scandalous Vineyard Setup [00:47:11] Tony Arsenal: And you know, I think, um, we are obviously gonna spend another week on this 'cause we still have not really addressed a single verse in this parable. I, I think like a lot of ink has been spilled on explaining sort of like the feal agricultural arrangements of this passage. What it represents. M my understanding is. A typical arrangement would be that a, a landowner would basically just lease out land and the tenants would be responsible for the planting, for the development. Right. And the, the, the landowner would essentially just collect a portion of whatever they produce. Right. This parable is actually taking this a step further. Exactly. That it's not as though the landowner just says like, all right, you can use this land. Right. And I own the land, so I get a portion of the pro, the profit. He's actually done all the work. Yes. And all that. The, all that the, the tenants need to do essentially is reap the harvest and then provide the portion of the harvest that belongs to the landowner, and so there is a greater investment. Of the landowner into this land than would be expected. We've commented in the past about how a lot of times the, the parables start on sort of a premise of shock. Like there's a, there's an element of the setup of the, of the parable where the audience would kind of like sit back and gasp or kind of be like, wait a second. Like that's not normal. Right. In the parable of the, the, um, lost son, it was the idea that like the son demanded his inheritance. And that wasn't the shocking part. The shocking part was that the father just granted it. Right. Or, um, the lost sheep, like the, there's actually a sort of a shocking element to the fact that like the, the land, the like sheep owner would just go get this other sheep. So we've, we've commented on there's kind of like. There's sort of like a scandalous setup. The scandalous setup in this is not that the land has been leased to tenants, right? It's that the land has been prepared for the tenants before it was leased out in the first place. And I think that's something we might miss if we read over this too quickly, is. The landowner has prepared everything for these, these tenants.  [00:49:30] Jesse Schwamb: That's right.  [00:49:31] Tony Arsenal: So the, the, at the, the punchline of the parable where they refuse to acknowledge the sovereignty of, um, sovereignty and maybe a lowercase s in the, in the context of the parable, they refuse to acknowledge the sovereignty and the rightful claim of the tenant or of the landowner on the, the profit of the land. And sort of like highlighter emphasized by the fact that they actually didn't do any of the work. There's a certain kind of like Amer, like American rugged individualism where we're kind of like, yeah, like if I planted all the crops, then it's kind of lame that this guy's coming in expecting to take a portion of it, right? Like, yeah, I guess he owns the land, so maybe he gets a little piece of it, but like, who does he think he is? All of that already is already short circuited. Like I. The, these tenants are not actually, um, portrayed as doing anything in this parable. That's right. Like they just lease the land. They, they, um, and leased is not really like the right. The right word, the, the Greek word is omi, which is like he gave over the land to them. Um, when we say leased, we have this idea that like the tenants pay to use the land and then like part of their contract is that whatever profits they reap, uh, off the land goes back to the, to the landowner. This is really more like the landowner graciously allowed them to live on this land, and the only payment he required was that they would eventually provide him part of the profit back. Like he's planted the land, he's put up the fence around it. He dug the wine press so that they could make a product out of it. He built the tower so it would be defended. Yes. And he gave it over to them essentially just to like live on until it was time for the harvest. And all he is asking for is basically like, alright, so this is my land. I've planted the vineyards, the profit is mine to have. And so when the time came for him to come claim that that's where they have now rejected him. Yes. That's where they've now said like, I know you did all the work and really graciously allowed us to live in this land, but we're gonna keep all of it for ourselves. That's the scandal of this. That's what I think like the original audience would've set up and like, wait a second here. Like, hold on. They didn't even plant the vineyards themselves. They didn't even build the tower themselves. That's really the force of this that I think we miss when we, when we overemphasize, trying to think through like what the original agricultural arrangements were. 'cause this is painted. Very different than what the original arrangements would've been typical for. Like this is a different scenario and I think intentionally so,  [00:52:09] Jesse Schwamb: and we need those words like rented, at least in English, to help us understand that it didn't belong to them. It wasn't a gift, right? It wasn't as if like it was just turned over in the sense that it belongs to you now do with it what you will. And it's very clear in the passage one, like you said, that the landowner does all those things. So it was a, you know, he completely set it up. I mean, this is just such a beautiful, I think, depiction of the hold of prophetic, you know, understanding of God's word here, but it's very clear that says the, he sent his slaves to the vine growers to receive his fruit. So you're right. The scandal is that they're like, well, obviously. They need to give him his fruits, like  [00:52:48] Tony Arsenal: right.  [00:52:48] Jesse Schwamb: It was all set up before he left on this long journey. He then turned it over to them to care for, and that was really all that they were supposed to do. They had no role in this. And so it does like lead us in into this weird space where it's like, well, well what, what did the Pharisees think they were trying to do themselves? What does actually Jesus commenting on, on their own, like licit on their own initiative here, is he basically saying that not only are they not respecting his sovereignty, but they were trying to claim for themselves what only rightly belongs to God that even their position right. Society in culture as their representatives, God himself, they wanted to take that over for themselves, which he does bring that condemnation upon them in other parts of the scripture. So again, this is really hot. I think it's a, it's both heat and light, but there's no doubt that there's fire to this, right? Because it's a direct indictment that God the father set all of this up. You yourselves are on rented property, but guess what? Even the property that you've rented, I'm not exacting a tax from you as if like you have put forward and grown or supplied or created some kind of profitable outcome here. And I just want a piece of that. He's not even talking about tithing in that sense. What he's basically saying is, none of this belongs to you. Like how? Right? How dare you? None of this is yours. I set all of this up and in fact, because you've done so poor poorly at this, I'm gonna take it away from you and give it to those who actually produce fruit and guess what's gonna be the Gentiles? So it's, there's a wild. Amounts of condemnation packed into a very small story.  [00:54:19] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. It really is.  [00:54:22] Tenants Add Nothing [00:54:22] Tony Arsenal: Um, there is nothing expected of these tenants. Right. There's no contract, like there's no terms, they, they really add nothing to the, the landowner's land, except I guess maybe they're the ones harvesting these, this fruit. Right. But even that's not explicit in the parable.  [00:54:43] Jesse Schwamb: Exactly.  [00:54:43] Tony Arsenal: Right. Right. He, he does all just to steal your thunder, like he does all the verbs. Yes. All of the ves are done by the landowner.  [00:54:50] Jesse Schwamb: Yes. Right  [00:54:51] Tony Arsenal: on. There is an implication that the, the tenants are somehow like the ones harvesting this, or they're the ones producing the wine, I guess, in the wine vat or the wine press. But at the end of the day. A normal tenant landowner agreement would be, I'm, you're, first of all, you're probably gonna pay me to use this land, right? You're paying me to use this land, and the way you pay me is you're gonna plant the, the gr the crop. You're gonna harvest it. You're gonna make the produce, and all I'm gonna do is let you live on this land. I'm gonna take the pro, like the profit, you're gonna pay me outta that profit. There is nothing asked or expected of these, th

This week, the Pugs discuss an article by our friend Aaron Renn dealing with the loss of literacy and the decline of Protestantism in America. Is there a connection between the two? If so, which causes the other? What is the historic connection between literacy and Protestantism? The guys discuss these and other related subjects in this episode. Article: https://www.aaronrenn.com/p/post-protestant-post-literate?triedRedirect=true Support the Theology Pugcast on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/thetheologypugcast?fbclid=IwAR17UHhfzjphO52C_kkZfursA_C784t0ldFix0wyB4fd-YOJpmOQ3dyqGf8 Learn more about First Pres. Battle Ground: https://www.solochristo.org/ Connect with WileyCraft Productions: https://wileycraftproductions.com/

Join Michaela Nikolaenko and me as we discuss how our view on spiritual warfare has changed. Michaela and I have a similar path; we are both ex-occultists and ex-Protestants and now newly Orthodox Christians. During our journey into the Orthodox faith, we both fell victim to misconceptions about spiritual warfare.As occultists, we both encountered demons. Not realizing what they truly were yet, we were tricked into believing they were our spiritual "friends," trying to utilize them on our path to healing. Once Christ came into our lives, like many new Christians, we fell into not only Protestantism but also charismatic teaching. This experience gave us a whole other deceptive view on what we initially believed spiritual warfare was. By God's grace, we both came to understand that what we had been taught about demons and spiritual warfare was not the truth, and we entered the Orthodox Church—the true church. Once there, we realized the true nature of spiritual warfare and that picking up your cross and following Christ meant an ongoing battle, but not with the eternal demons like we once believed—it was warfare within. A lifelong battle not just with demons, but against our passions and sin.Watch Video on YoutubeIf you enjoy this episode there is also a bonus chat where Michaela and I dive deeper into the topics discussed in this episode. Find it on The Friendship Membership. Want more? Let's be friends. Join the Friendship Membership.Want to read my memoir, Here Comes Trouble? It's available now. Order your copy  or from my website www.karamosher.comMain Topics:The reality of demons and demonic shapeshifting in spiritual warfareThe false origins of UFOs and alien encounters as demonic deceptionsThe importance of spiritual fathers, holy traditions, and the Orthodox approach to salvationThe spiritual significance of suffering, passions, and humility in our spiritual journeyHow to test and discern spiritual experiences through Orthodox spiritual practicesThe false promise of sinless perfection and the reality of ongoing spiritual struggleThe difference between subjective and objective grace in Orthodox spiritualityThe coming false alien invasion and the spiritual deception of the end times

Does the Protestant Reformation still matter today?In this conversation, Christian Barrett sits down with Clay Kannard from the Reformanda Initiative to discuss why so many young Christians are converting to Roman Catholicism, the core differences between Protestantism and Catholicism, and why these theological issues still matter in 2026.They discuss:1. Why Gen Z is drawn to Roman Catholicism2. Why Protestants convert to Catholicism3. The Protestant understanding of the gospel4. The authority of Scripture and the church5. What makes a true church6. Whether Rome is a true churchWhether you're Protestant, Catholic, exploring church history, or wrestling with questions about authority and the gospel, this discussion aims to encourage serious and thoughtful engagement with these issues.#Protestant #Catholic #Reformation #Christianity #ChurchHistory #Theology #Apologetics #romancatholicism From the Reformanda Initiative: https://www.reformandainitiative.orgSupport Emet Ministries, so we can continue to provide content and resources to help disciples become disciplers: https://emetministry.churchcenter.com/givingmy reading list:⁠ https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/74696644-christian-barretthttps://everytuesday.printful.me00:00 Does the Reformation Still Matter?02:20 The Reformanda Initiative04:00 Why Gen Z Is Interested in Roman Catholicism08:31 Why Protestants Convert to Catholicism13:15 Protestantism vs Catholicism: The Biggest Differences20:00 The Holy Stairs of Rome: How Bad Theology Hurts People23:22 The Roman Catholic Gospel26:41 What Does “Roman Catholic” Mean?32:30 Protestants Need to Recover This37:20 Think About This Before Converting to Catholicism40:34 Is Rome a True Church?48:58 Why Protestant and Catholic Differences Matter

Samira Mehta is the author of a new book entitled God Bless the Pill: The Surprising History of Contraception and Sexuality in American Religion. She joins Lex and Rena Yehuda for a conversation exploring her book, along with what it can teach us about the history of American religion -- and about Jewish history in particular. This episode is the 1st in an ongoing unit of Judaism Unbound episodes exploring reproductive justice, bodily autonomy, and their intersections with the Jewish past, present, and future. For 30%-off on God Bless the Pill, just head to this link and enter the code 01SOCIAL30 at checkout! ------------------------------------------------- ShavuotLIVE, Judaism Unbound's BIGGEST event of the year, is coming up! This 24-hour extravaganza of Jewish learning and unlearning will take place on Friday, May 22nd through Saturday, May 23rd. Click here to register! Access full shownotes for this episode via this link. If you're enjoying Judaism Unbound, please help us keep things going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation -- support Judaism Unbound by clicking here!  

Ethiopia's Pentay are among the largest evangelical communities in the world, having grown from about 5% of the population in the 1980s to roughly a quarter today. M Rowton's essay "White Fields" in Sublation Magazine presents an expansive realist understanding of the Pentay movement. White Fields by M. Rowtonhttps://www.sublationmag.com/post/white-fieldsSupport Sublation Media https://patreon.com/dietsoap

“Is leaving the Church a mortal sin?” This question opens a discussion on the implications of faith and scandal, particularly regarding a friend’s conversion to Protestantism. Other topics include the distinction between Jesus being Catholic or Christian, the reasons for embracing Catholicism, and concerns about praying to Mary. Join the Catholic Answers Live Club Newsletter Invite our apologists to speak at your parish! Visit Catholicanswersspeakers.com Questions Covered: 05:36 – My friend left the Catholic church and became protestant because of scandal. Is he in Jeopardy of mortal sin? 16:35 – Was Jesus Catholic or Christian. What's the difference? 24:45 – Explain in one minute why someone should be Catholic. 29:17 – I have PTSD, Anxiety, depression, how can I go to OCIA? 37:13 – I don't think it's right to pray Mary 47:21 – What in Vatican 2 is infallible? Does a certain word need to be included for a statement to be infallible?

Erick Ybarra explains the theory of "penal substitutionary atonement", distinguishing it from Protestantism, and shows that the Fathers taught something like PSA.

Two Protestants can sound airtight when they critique Eastern Orthodoxy together, until you ask a simple question: do they even agree on what a church is? Jeremy Jeremiah of Cloud of Witnesses pulls apart a popular interview between Dr. Gavin Ortlund and Joshua Schooping, author of Disillusioned, a former Orthodox priest who is now a Lutheran pastor, and we respond point by point from an Orthodox perspective with church history, theology, and plain logic.We spend real time on the practical consequences of Protestant ecclesiology, not just the slogans. If a Lutheran pastor shaped by the Augsburg Confession would refuse communion to a Reformed Baptist who follows the 1689 London Baptist Confession, what does that say about claims of easy unity in the “invisible church”? We talk Eucharist theology, baptism debates, and how sacramental disagreement turns into competing definitions of a “true church.”Then we tackle the biggest claims head-on: Has the Eastern Orthodox Church truly remained unchanged? What counts as doctrine versus liturgical development? How should Christians read Nicaea II and the language around icons and veneration? And when Marian prayers are quoted as proof that Mary replaces Jesus, we slow down and read them in context as devotional, poetic language about intercession, while keeping Christ's saving work central.We respond to a now Protestant discussion critiquing and frankly attacking Eastern Orthodoxy and explain why its framing collapses when you examine Protestant disagreements on the sacraments, the church, and salvation. We also defend Orthodox claims about continuity by separating minor liturgical development from core doctrinal stability across church history.• framing the interview as a strictly Protestant critique of Orthodoxy• contrasting Lutheran and Reformed Baptist ecclesiology on communion, baptism, and sacraments• challenging the idea that Protestantism offers a unified “invisible church” solution• addressing “one true church” anxiety and how mercy and salvation are discussed• separating liturgical variation from doctrinal continuity over 2,000 years• defending icons with early church evidence and the witness of ancient apostolic churches• responding to Nicaea II claims about forced icon veneration• interpreting Marian prayers as poetic intercession language rather than replacement of Christ• pushing back on claims that the gospel is absent from Orthodox worshipIf you care about Eastern Orthodoxy, Protestant apologetics, apostolic succession, icons, Mariology, and what it means to belong to the historic visible church, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share this with a friend who's debating Orthodoxy, and leave a review telling us where you agree or disagree.Two Protestants critique Orthodoxy, but can they even agree on baptism or communion? We break down the hidden contradiction and what it means for “the true church” claims. Questions about Orthodoxy? Please check out our friends at Ghost of Byzantium Discord server: https://discord.gg/JDJDQw6tdhPlease prayerfully consider supporting Cloud of Witnesses: https://www.patreon.com/c/CloudofWitnessesFind Cloud of Witnesses on Instagram, X.com, Facebook, and TikTok.Audio: https://cloudofwitnessesradio.buzzsprout.comPlease leave a comment with your thoughts!

For more information about this group, please visit their website at reformationboise.com. Every weekday at 3:30 am and 7:30 am you can listen to The Gospel for Life on KSPD 94.5 FM and 790 AM Boise's Solid Talk in the Treasure Valley,  Idaho, USA.If you have a question, comment, or even a topic suggestion for the Pastors, you can email them.  If you enjoy The Gospel for Life, please give us a rating and leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. That helps us a lot!Phone: (208) 991-3526E-mail: thegospelforlifeidaho@gmail.comPodcast website:  https://www.790kspd.com/gospel-for-life/to donate on line https://www.reformationboise.com/donate

RFM is joined by esteemed co-counsel Kolby Reddish to dissect Jacob Hansen’s recent debate with Allie Beth Stuckey of The Blaze. Strangely, Jacob seems to want to talk about anything other than Mormonism. His efforts to make Mormonism sound like Protestantism grow increasingly bizarre. But Allie is not going to let him get away with… Read More »Mormon Gets Creamed In Debate: RFM: 456

RFM is joined by esteemed co-counsel Kolby Reddish to dissect Jacob Hansen’s recent debate with Allie Beth Stuckey of The Blaze. Strangely, Jacob seems to want to talk about anything other than Mormonism. His efforts to make Mormonism sound like Protestantism grow increasingly bizarre. But Allie is not going to let him get away with… Read More »Mormon Gets Creamed In Debate: RFM: 456 The post Mormon Gets Creamed In Debate: RFM: 456 appeared first on Mormon Discussions Podcasts - Full Lineup.

The Iran war has produced an unlikely main character: the Pope. This week, our dear friend and former colleague Santiago Ramos returns to the pod. He joins Christine and Damir to unpack the escalating clash between the Trump administration and the Catholic Church over the war, Trump's various blasphemies, and JD Vance's remarkable journey from Catholic conversion to, well, rediscovering Protestantism. The conversation then turns to more interesting matters. What does the Catholic tradition actually say about just war, and does anyone in Washington care? Santi argues that the real story isn't just about applying just war principles — it's about the Vatican's deeper commitment to a post-WWII global order that it sees every American war chipping away at. He draws a sharp distinction between just war and holy war, arguing that Secretary of War Pete Hegseth's invocations of divine mandate are what really set off the Pope. Christine is fascinated by the public's unexpected hunger for moral authority in a cynical age — and by the spectacle of a charismatic, English-speaking, social-media-fluentAmerican pope suddenly becoming the most compelling critic of the administration. And Damir, true to form, grants the Pope his due as a political operator while insisting that the real story is simpler: while this is a stupid war with no rationale, the savvy Pope saw an opportunity to play politics. The conversation ends with an unlikely convergence, as Christine gets Damir to all but confess his belief in original sin.Required Reading:* Christine Emba, “What a Catholic Church Unafraid of Donald Trump Means to the World” (NYT).* Ross Douthat, “Trump's Blasphemy is a Warning” (NYT).* Jacques Maritain on just war (Commonweal).* Pope John XXIII, Pacem in Terris (Vatican).* Phil Klay on just war principles and the Iran war (YouTube).* Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan, “How Trump Took the U.S. to War With Iran” (NYT). This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit wisdomofcrowds.live/subscribe

It's Thursday, April 30th, A.D. 2026. This is The Worldview in 5 Minutes heard on 140 radio stations and at www.TheWorldview.com.  I'm Adam McManus. (Adam@TheWorldview.com) By Jonathan Clark Algerian authorities have shut down virtually all Protestant churches Muslim authorities in Algeria, Africa have shut down nearly all Protestant churches in the country since January 2025. The finding comes from a new report by the European Centre for Law and Justice.  Algeria's Christian community has been steadily growing since the 1990s. Most of these believers are evangelical Protestants. However, the North African country imposed restrictions on non-Muslim worship in 2006. And most Protestant churches lost their legal status in 2012. These Christians now have little to no freedom of expression in the Muslim-majority nation. The report stated, “Any expression of Christian faith may be regarded as . . . an offence against the precepts of Islam, and may result in prosecution.”  In Matthew 5:10, Jesus said, “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.” Kenyan court rejects abortion as a “right” A court of appeal in Kenya  ruled against abortion last Friday. The court struck down a 2022 high court ruling that declared abortion was a constitutional right.  However, the constitution of the East African nation states that every person has the right to life and that life begins at conception. Last week's ruling affirmed that abortion is not a fundamental right.  Calum Miller, a pro-life doctor and ethicist, wrote on X, “This is a HUGE win in one of Africa's biggest legal cases ever.” United Arab Emirates wants exporting oil independence The United Arab Emirates, which borders Oman to the east and northeast, and Saudi Arabia to the southwest, is withdrawing from the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, or OPEC. The major oil producer made the announcement Tuesday and plans to withdraw on May 1. OPEC has limited the United Arab Emirates' oil production to about three million barrels per day. The Emirates wants to reach five million barrels a day by next year as global demand increases.  OPEC is led by Saudi Arabia. The group used to control over half of the world's oil production. Now, it controls less than a third of the production. The United States has become one of its biggest rivals in recent years. King Charles III emphasizes Christian faith before Congress Britain's King Charles III addressed the U.S. Congress in Washington, D.C. on Tuesday. It's the first time a British monarch addressed Congress since Queen Elizabeth II did so in 1991. King Charles emphasized international cooperation between the United States and the United Kingdom as well as the shared faith of the two nations. Listen. CHARLES: “Mr. Speaker, for many here, and for myself, the Christian faith is a firm anchor and daily inspiration that guides us, not only personally, (applause) guides us not only personally, but together as members of our community.” “So, to the United States of America, on your 250th birthday, let our two countries re-dedicate ourselves to each other, in the selfless service of our peoples, and of all the peoples of the world. God bless the United States and God bless the United Kingdom.” (applause and cheers) Psalm 33:12 reminds us, “Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people He has chosen as His own inheritance.”  Supreme Court ruled in favor of Christian pregnancy centers The U.S. Supreme Court ruled unanimously in favor of a group of Christian pregnancy centers yesterday.  The ruling allows First Choice Women's Resource Centers to challenge the state of New Jersey in federal court. State officials hit the pro-life group with an unconstitutional, coercive subpoena.  Attorney Erin Hawley with Alliance Defending Freedom said, “In this resounding victory, the Supreme Court held to its long-standing precedent of recognizing that the Constitution protects First Choice, and its donors, from demands by a hostile state official to disclose donor identities and contact information.”    Protestantism's net gain in Latin America And finally, Pew Research released a report on how religious switching has affected Protestants and Catholics. Religious switching refers to when an adult identifies with a religion that is different from the one they were raised in.  Catholicism has lost more people than it gained from religious switching in nearly all surveyed countries. People who leave Catholicism tend to become Protestant or religiously disaffiliated.  Meanwhile, Protestantism has seen a net gain in about as many countries as it has seen a net loss. In particular, Protestantism has had a net gain in Latin America, which is comprised of 20 countries, primarily Mexico, Central America, the Caribbean, and South America. Close And that's The Worldview on this Thursday, April 30th, in the year of our Lord 2026. Follow us on X or subscribe for free by Spotify, Amazon Music, or by iTunes or email to our unique Christian newscast at www.TheWorldview.com.  Plus, you can get the Generations app through Google Play or The App Store. I'm Adam McManus (Adam@TheWorldview.com). Seize the day for Jesus Christ.

Friends of the Rosary,Today, April 30, Thursday of the Fourth Week of Easter, the Church honors Saint Pope Pius V, who organized the “holy league” that defeated the Muslims at the Battle of Lepanto in 1571.The victory was attributed to prayers to Our Lady of the Rosary.Pius V was also instrumental in countering Protestantism.Also, in the Gospel today (John 13:16–20), we see how Jesus announced his betrayal just after transforming bread and wine into his body and blood. The Lord spoke of treachery: “The one who ate my food has raised his heel against me.”Bishop Barron writes, "Consistently, human beings have preferred the isolation of sin to the festivity of the sacred meal. Theologians call this tendency the mysterium iniquitatis (the mystery of evil), for there is no rational ground for it. Therefore, we should not be too surprised that, as the sacred meal comes to its richest possible expression, evil accompanies it."Alleluia! Christ is Risen!Ave Maria!Come, Holy Spirit, come!To Jesus through Mary!Here I am, Lord; I come to do your will.Please give us the grace to respond with joy!+ Mikel Amigot w/ María Blanca | RosaryNetwork.com, New YorkEnhance your faith with the new Holy Rosary University app:Apple iOS | New! Android Google Play• ⁠April 30, 2026, Today's Rosary on YouTube | Daily broadcast at 7:30 pm ET

Gavin Ortlund analyzes five popular critiques of Protestantism and offers a clearer framework for understanding church history.Truth Unites (https://truthunites.org) exists to promote gospel assurance through theological depth. Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) is President of Truth Unites, Visiting Professor of Historical Theology at Phoenix Seminary, and Theologian-in-Residence at Immanuel Nashville.SUPPORT:Tax Deductible Support: https://truthunites.org/donate/Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/truthunitesFOLLOW:Website: https://truthunites.org/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/truth.unites/X: https://x.com/gavinortlundFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/TruthUnitesPage/

What does the raucous laughter of Nicki Minaj and Billy Graham have to do with 14th century saint? Find out in PART TWO of our MOST requested episodes ever -- diving deep into the question "Who is Saint Julian of Norwich???" Author of Revelations of Divine Love, coiner of the phrase "All Shall Be Well," and delighter in God's delight, St. Julian is such a powerful visionary and leader we needed two episodes to do her justice. We're joined again by the The Rev. Dr. Amy Laura Hall, one of Lizzie's professors from her time at Duke Divinity School. In part two, we explore "Christ as our true mother," the nature of the devil, and we see how Julian has echoes for us to consider in today's religious landscape. We also get a little teaser for Dr. Hall's new book, out in May 2026, called ERECTING THE PULPIT: MUSCULAR CHRISTIANITY FROM TEDDY ROOSEVELT TO DONALD TRUMP. Amy Laura Hall is Associate Professor of Christian Ethics and Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies at Duke University, where she has taught since 1999. She is the author of four books, including Conceiving Parenthood: American Protestantism and the Spirit of Reproduction (2007) and Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich (2018). A noted authority on Christianity and culture in the U.S., Hall has also contributed provocative essays on Protestantism and politics to Religion Dispatches and Religion News Service. Resources mentioned in this episode: Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich by Amy Laura Hall https://www.dukeupress.edu/laughing-at-the-devil Revelations of Divine Love by Julian of Norwich trans. by Elizabeth Spearing https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/261039/revelations-of-divine-love-by-julian-of-norwich-translated-by-elizabeth-spearing-introduction-and-notes-by-a-c-spearing/ Julian of Norwich and the Mystical Body Politic of Christ By Frederick Christian Bauerschmidt --https://undpress.nd.edu/9780268022082/julian-of-norwich/ The Writings of Julian of Norwich A Vision Showed to a Devout Woman and A Revelation of Love Edited by Nicholas Watson and Jacqueline Jenkins -- https://www.psupress.org/books/titles/0-271-02547-6.html?srsltid=AfmBOoopOJOEaY69eupR8Rx1uxzSJyVJpaSpLJKpJoHSPKAQ9ry8HPJY Rev. Dr. Amy Laura Hall's works: FORTHCOMING: Erecting the Pulpit: Muscular Christianity from Teddy Roosevelt to Donald Trump https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/erecting-the-pulpit-9798216383475/ Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich by Amy Laura Hall https://www.dukeupress.edu/laughing-at-the-devil https://arcmag.org/home-movies-for-holy-week/ +++ Like what you hear? We are an entirely crowd-sourced, you-funded project.  SUPPORT US ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/AndAlsoWithYouPodcast There's all kinds of perks including un-aired live episodes, Zoom retreats, and mailbag episodes for our Patreons! +++ Our Website: https://andalsowithyoupod.com Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andalsowithyoupodcast/ ++++ MERCH: https://www.bonfire.com/store/and-also-with-you-the-podcast/ ++++ More about Father Lizzie: BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762683/god-didnt-make-us-to-hate-us-by-rev-lizzie-mcmanus-dail/ RevLizzie.com https://www.instagram.com/rev.lizzie/ https://www.tiktok.com/@rev.lizzie Jubilee Episcopal Church in Austin, TX - JubileeATX.org  ++++ More about Mother Laura: https://www.instagram.com/laura.peaches/ https://www.tiktok.com/@mother_peaches ++++ Theme music: "On Our Own Again" by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue). New episodes drop Mondays at 7am EST/6am CST! 

 13 You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt lose its savour, wherewith shall it be salted? It is good for nothing any more but to be cast out, and to be trodden on by men.Vos estis sal terrae. Quod si sal evanuerit, in quo salietur? ad nihilum valet ultra, nisi ut mittatur foras, et conculcetur ab hominibus. 14 You are the light of the world. A city seated on a mountain cannot be hid.Vos estis lux mundi. Non potest civitas abscondi supra montem posita, 15 Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but upon a candlestick, that it may shine to all that are in the house.neque accedunt lucernam, et ponunt eam sub modio, sed super candelabrum, ut luceat omnibus qui in domo sunt. 16 So let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.Sic luceat lux vestra coram hominibus : ut videant opera vestra bona, et glorificent Patrem vestrum, qui in caelis est. 17 Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.Nolite putare quoniam veni solvere legem, aut prophetas : non veni solvere, sed adimplere. 18 For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.Amen quippe dico vobis, donec transeat caelum et terra, jota unum aut unus apex non praeteribit a lege, donec omnia fiant. 19 He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.Qui ergo solverit unum de mandatis istis minimis, et docuerit sic homines, minimus vocabitur in regno caelorum : qui autem fecerit et docuerit, hic magnus vocabitur in regno caelorum.[17] "To fulfill": By accomplishing all the figures and prophecies; and perfecting all that was imperfect.[18] "Amen": That is, assuredly of a truth. This Hebrew word, amen, is here retained by the example and authority of all the four Evangelists. It is used by our Lord as a strong asseveration, and affirmation of the truth.Peter Kanis, born at Nijmegen in Holland, after brilliant studies at Cologne and Louvain, entered the Company of Jesus, of which he is one of the chief glories. The wisdom of his controversy, his eloquent preaching, his instructive writings (for example the first Catechism) caused him to be called the Hammer of Protestantism. He died at Fribourg in Switzerland. A.D. 1597.

OPEN CALLS on anything Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Mormon/Cult! Set me straight! Send Superchats at any time here: https://streamlabs.com/jaydyer/tip Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnt7Iy8GlmdPwy_Tzyx93bA/join Order New Book Available here: https://jaysanalysis.com/product/esoteric-hollywood-3-sex-cults-apocalypse-in-films/ Get started with Bitcoin here: https://www.swanbitcoin.com/jaydyer/ The New Philosophy Course is here: https://marketplace.autonomyagora.com/philosophy101 Set up recurring Choq subscription with the discount code JAY60LIFE for 60% off now https://choq.com Subscribe to my site here: https://jaysanalysis.com/membership-account/membership-levels/ Follow me on R0kfin here: https://rokfin.com/jaydyer Music by Dr Evo the Producer, Jay Dyer and Amid the Ruins 1453 https://www.youtube.com/@amidtheruinsOVERHAUL Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnt7Iy8GlmdPwy_Tzyx93bA/join Send Superchats at any time here: https://streamlabs.com/jaydyer/tipBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/jay-sanalysis--1423846/support.

How do you reconcile Revelation 7 and 19 with the church being left behind and not "taken away"? At what point were the Jews no longer doing the right thing with their Temple practices? Also, wasn't righteousness always by faith anyway? Did Martin Luther delete certain books from the Bible? A Catholic person told me that Protestantism is a cult and that Catholicism is the only true faith. How do I respond to this?

Rus-run is still mad! So tonight we focus on responding to his video and refuting Protestantism and evangelicalism but calls on other topics are welcomed. **Fair Use Disclaimer** This video is made for educational, commentary, and transformative purposes under the principles of **fair use** as outlined in U.S. copyright law (Section 107 of the Copyright Act). - The content includes short clips, audio excerpts, or references from the original music videos and podcasts solely for the purpose of review, criticism, commentary, or analysis. - No copyright infringement is intended. - All rights to the original music, audio, images, and footage belong to their respective owners and copyright holders. - This video is not affiliated with, endorsed by, or sponsored by the original creators, artists, labels, or podcast producers. - If you are the copyright owner and believe this use does not qualify as fair use, please contact me directly so we can resolve the matter amicably. Send Superchats at any time here: https://streamlabs.com/jaydyer/tip Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnt7Iy8GlmdPwy_Tzyx93bA/join Order New Book Available here: https://jaysanalysis.com/product/esoteric-hollywood-3-sex-cults-apocalypse-in-films/ Get started with Bitcoin here: https://www.swanbitcoin.com/jaydyer/ The New Philosophy Course is here: https://marketplace.autonomyagora.com/philosophy101 Set up recurring Choq subscription with the discount code JAY60LIFE for 60% off now https://choq.com Subscribe to my site here: https://jaysanalysis.com/membership-account/membership-levels/ Follow me on R0kfin here: https://rokfin.com/jaydyer Music by Dr Evo the Producer, Jay Dyer and Amid the Ruins 1453 https://www.youtube.com/@amidtheruinsOVERHAUL Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnt7Iy8GlmdPwy_Tzyx93bA/join Send Superchats at any time here: https://streamlabs.com/jaydyer/tipBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/jay-sanalysis--1423846/support.

Send Superchats at any time here: https://streamlabs.com/jaydyer/tip Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnt7Iy8GlmdPwy_Tzyx93bA/join Order New Book Available here: https://jaysanalysis.com/product/esoteric-hollywood-3-sex-cults-apocalypse-in-films/ Get started with Bitcoin here: https://www.swanbitcoin.com/jaydyer/ The New Philosophy Course is here: https://marketplace.autonomyagora.com/philosophy101 Set up recurring Choq subscription with the discount code JAY60LIFE for 60% off now https://choq.com Subscribe to my site here: https://jaysanalysis.com/membership-account/membership-levels/ Follow me on R0kfin here: https://rokfin.com/jaydyer Music by Dr Evo the Producer, Jay Dyer and Amid the Ruins 1453 https://www.youtube.com/@amidtheruinsOVERHAUL Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnt7Iy8GlmdPwy_Tzyx93bA/joinBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/jay-sanalysis--1423846/support.

Do Catholics and Protestants actually worship the same Jesus?  Pastors Carlos Erazo and Paul Cunningham sit down with apologist and author Dr. Frank Turek (I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist) to unpack one of the most personal and theologically charged conversations in Live Free history. Frank was there the day Charlie Kirk was assassinated, and he shares what happened, what Charlie believed, and how the conspiracy theories impact his legacy. From there, the conversation digs into the real differences between Catholicism and Protestantism...not to divide, but to clarify what the Bible actually teaches about salvation, authority, and grace. In a season where Gen Z is converting to Catholicism and a new American pope has been elected, this episode gives you the biblical tools to think clearly, love well, and point people to Jesus. In this episode, you'll learn: What Frank Turek witnessed the day Charlie Kirk was shot, and what Charlie believed about Jesus The key differences between Catholic and Protestant theology on salvation and authority Why Sola Scriptura doesn't mean what most critics think it means Whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God, and what the Bible says How to have grace-filled conversations with Catholic family and friends about the gospel Stand firm. Think biblically. Live free.

A growing interest in religion among Gen Z, alongside rising church attendance across the United States and Western Europe, is capturing the attention of researchers, journalists, and church leaders alike. Dave and Autumn explore how this trend is playing out locally in Denver, highlighting renewed curiosity around Protestantism, Catholicism, and historic expressions of worship. Together, they reflect on what this moment might mean for the church and its witness.Resources mentioned in this episode:On Bullshit by Harry G. FrankfurtHonestly with Bari WeissMaiden, Mother, Matriarch with Louise Perry

In this episode of The Perspectivalist, we enter a long-standing and often contested conversation within the church: the nature of the sacraments and, more specifically, the place of children at the Lord's Table. Amid ongoing movements between Protestantism, Roman Catholicism, and Orthodoxy, sacramental theology has once again taken center stage. Pastor Uri Brito offers a robust defense of paedocommunion, not as a novelty or reaction, but as a faithful reading of the biblical witness. At the heart of the discussion is Paul's exhortation in 1 Corinthians 11 to “discern the body.” Rather than interpreting this as a demand for advanced intellectual or theological comprehension, Brito reframes Paul's concern as one of relational integrity. The problem in Corinth was not ignorance, but division. The table had become a site of fragmentation, where status and exclusion replaced unity and fellowship. To “discern the body,” then, is to act in a way that promotes the unity of Christ's people. It is not about mastering doctrinal precision, but about embodying covenantal faithfulness. In this light, children are not disqualified participants. On the contrary, they often exemplify the very posture required at the table: openness, receptivity, and a natural inclination toward unity rather than division. Drawing from biblical patterns and theological insights, including reflections from James B. Jordan, the episode situates faith within the life of the household. Scripture consistently presents covenant life as something nurtured within relationships, not constructed in isolation. From John the Baptist leaping in the womb to David's early trust in God, the Bible affirms that faith begins long before intellectual maturity. The Lord's Supper, therefore, is not a private or individualistic act, but a family meal. To exclude baptized children from this meal is to misunderstand the nature of the church as a household. When children are welcomed, the church bears witness to a gospel that gathers, nourishes, and unites a people across generations.This episode calls the church to recover a vision of the table not as a test of intellectual attainment, but as a feast of covenant belonging, where Christ feeds His people and forms them into one body.

In this interview, I'm joined by Sean Luke of  @anglicanaesthetics to discuss how historic Anglican theology can address some of our contemporary debates about sola scriptura, Protestantism, and more. We discuss whether Anglicans really believe in sola scriptura, how Anglicans have viewed historic schisms, and whether the development of the Church of England was itself schismatic. Prepare to come out of this interview with a long reading list!Pre-order my novel, The Long Road to Holy Island: https://amzn.to/4sISAC9Get access to my book club, show notes, ad-free episodes and more:  https://patreon.com/gospelsimplicity Make a one-time donation: https://paypal.me/gospelsimplicityBook a meeting: https://calendly.com/gospelsimplicity/meet-with-austinRead my writings: https://austinsuggs.substack.comFind Sean on Substack: https://substack.com/@anglicanaestheticsBooks Mentioned: Richard Hooker - Laws of Ecclesiastical Polity: https://amzn.to/4tFes1FWilliam Chillingworth - The Religion of the Protestants: https://amzn.to/4cDpxunJohn Tillotson - The Rule of Faith: 00:00 Introduction02:00 Sola Scriptura in Anglican Thought03:50 The Role of Tradition and Ecumenism06:59 Historical Anglican Approaches to Church Authority12:45 The Church Schism and Anglican Continuity20:45 The Caroline Divines and Anglican Identity28:45 Sola Scriptura in Anglican Debates40:55 The Authority of Scripture and Church Tradition50:40 The Discontinuity and Continuity of the Rule of Faith01:00:48 Recommended Resources and Final ThoughtsSupport the show

What does Rage Against the Machine and motherly images of God have to do with a 14th century saint?  Turns out ... a LOT. We are (finally) doing one of the MOST requested episodes ever -- diving deep into the question "Who is Saint Julian of Norwich???" And in order to dive into this saint whose revelatory witness of radical love, the wounds of Christ, and laughing at the nothingness of the devil, we have called in an expert: The Rev. Dr. Amy Laura Hall, one of Lizzie's professors from her time at Duke Divinity School.  This conversation was so rich that we had to split into two parts, so join us this week for PART ONE where we get a lay of the land of 14th century England, the bubonic plague, feudalism and its violence, and in this despairing time how Saint Julian received an incandescent vision of Christ's love for the whole world.  Amy Laura Hall is Associate Professor of Christian Ethics and Gender, Sexuality, and Feminist Studies at Duke University, where she has taught since 1999. She is the author of four books, including Conceiving Parenthood: American Protestantism and the Spirit of Reproduction (2007) and Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich (2018). A noted authority on Christianity and culture in the U.S., Hall has also contributed provocative essays on Protestantism and politics to Religion Dispatches and Religion News Service. Resources mentioned in this episode: Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich by Amy Laura Hall https://www.dukeupress.edu/laughing-at-the-devil Revelations of Divine Love by Julian of Norwich trans. by Elizabeth Spearing https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/261039/revelations-of-divine-love-by-julian-of-norwich-translated-by-elizabeth-spearing-introduction-and-notes-by-a-c-spearing/ Julian of Norwich and the Mystical Body Politic of Christ By Frederick Christian Bauerschmidt --https://undpress.nd.edu/9780268022082/julian-of-norwich/ The Writings of Julian of Norwich A Vision Showed to a Devout Woman and A Revelation of Love Edited by Nicholas Watson and Jacqueline Jenkins -- https://www.psupress.org/books/titles/0-271-02547-6.html?srsltid=AfmBOoopOJOEaY69eupR8Rx1uxzSJyVJpaSpLJKpJoHSPKAQ9ry8HPJY Rev. Dr. Amy Laura Hall's works: FORTHCOMING: Erecting the Pulpit: Muscular Christianity from Teddy Roosevelt to Donald Trump https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/erecting-the-pulpit-9798216383475/ Laughing at the Devil: Seeing the World with Julian of Norwich by Amy Laura Hall https://www.dukeupress.edu/laughing-at-the-devil https://arcmag.org/home-movies-for-holy-week/ +++ Like what you hear? We are an entirely crowd-sourced, you-funded project.  SUPPORT US ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/AndAlsoWithYouPodcast There's all kinds of perks including un-aired live episodes, Zoom retreats, and mailbag episodes for our Patreons! +++ Our Website: https://andalsowithyoupod.com Our Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/andalsowithyoupodcast/ ++++ MERCH: https://www.bonfire.com/store/and-also-with-you-the-podcast/ ++++ More about Father Lizzie: BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/762683/god-didnt-make-us-to-hate-us-by-rev-lizzie-mcmanus-dail/ RevLizzie.com https://www.instagram.com/rev.lizzie/ https://www.tiktok.com/@rev.lizzie Jubilee Episcopal Church in Austin, TX - JubileeATX.org  ++++ More about Mother Laura: https://www.instagram.com/laura.peaches/ https://www.tiktok.com/@mother_peaches ++++ Theme music: "On Our Own Again" by Blue Dot Sessions (www.sessions.blue). New episodes drop Mondays at 7am EST/6am CST! 

Allie addresses the intense backlash she received after responding to Donald Trump's controversial Truth Social post that many claimed portrayed him as Jesus Christ. Allie explains why she believes Trump's explanation is plausible while still calling for greater care and discernment from the president and pushes back against critics who accused her of secretly being “Never Trump” or defending him too much. Allie also dives deep into the escalating feud between President Trump and Pope Leo XIV, breaking down Trump's sharp criticism of the pope's statements on foreign policy, stance on crime, and growing alignment with Islam. For some reason, Tucker Carlson is saying Muslims are offended by Trump's messianic post. Is Catholicism really on the rise in America? She examines the growing Catholic vs. Evangelical divide, comparing where the two groups stand on abortion, immigration, IVF, gender, and sexuality, and explains why — despite the popular “Catholic drip” narrative — data shows Catholicism continues to decline while Protestantism remains strong. As a Reformed Protestant, Allie clarifies what biblical evangelicalism truly means, why she holds to covenant theology, and why Scripture alone must remain the final authority for Christians. Don't miss this timely conversation on politics, theology, and staying faithful to the Bible in a divided culture. Share the Arrows 2026 is on October 10 in Dallas, Texas! Tickets are on sale now at: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://sharethearrows.com⁠⁠⁠ Share the Arrows is sponsored by: A'del Natural Cosmetics: AdelNaturalCosmetics.com Range Leather: RangeLeather.com/ALLIE We Heart Nutrition: WeHeartNutrition.com Buy Allie's book "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.toxicempathy.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ – Timecodes 0:00 Introduction 2:11 Trump's Truth Social Post 15:09 Trump vs Pope Leo XIV 23:42 A Muslim - Catholic Alliance? 33:01 Attacks on Evangelicals 44:53 Evangelicals are More Conservative Than Catholics 49:30 Is Catholicism Surging? – Today's Sponsors: A'del | Visit AdelNaturalCosmetics.com and enter promo code ALLIE for 25% off your first-time purchase. Good Ranchers | If you go to ⁠⁠⁠GoodRanchers.com⁠⁠⁠ and subscribe to any of their boxes of 100% American meat, you'll save up to $500 a year! Plus, if you use code ALLIE, you'll get an additional $25 off your first order. We Heart Nutrition | Check out We Heart Nutrition at ⁠⁠⁠WeHeartNutrition.com⁠⁠⁠ and use the code ALLIE for 20% off. Paleovalley | Right now, you can get 15% off your first order at paleovalley.com with code ALLIE. Alliance Defending Freedom | For a limited time, every dollar you give to ADF will be doubled — but only while matching funds remain available. Go to JOINADF.com/ALLIE or text ALLIE to 83848 to have your gift for life matched. Episodes You May Like: Ep 1329 | Trump's Threats, Paula White's Heresy & Tucker's Bad Take https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1329-trumps-threats-paula-whites-heresy-tuckers-bad-take/id1359249098?i=1000760319482   Ep 1283 | Is Tucker Carlson Right About Islam? https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1283-is-tucker-carlson-right-about-islam/id1359249098?i=1000743878076  Ep 1211 | Israel: What Should Christians Think? And an Announcement https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1211-israel-what-should-christians-think-and/id1359249098?i=1000714714917  Ep 1006 | The Pope is Wrong About Human Nature https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1006-the-pope-is-wrong-about-human-nature/id1359249098?i=1000656310150  Ep 1271 | A Catholic & Protestant on the Death Penalty, Immigration & Women's Roles | Trent Horn https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1271-a-catholic-protestant-on-the-death/id1359249098?i=1000738174696   Ep 1185 | Catholics Get a New Pope This Week. Here's Why It Matters | Guest: Michael Knowles https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1185-catholics-get-a-new-pope-this-week-heres/id1359249098?i=1000706719230  --- ► Buy Allie's book, "You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love": https://alliebethstuckey.com/book ► Subscribe to the podcast: iTunes: https://apple.co/2UVssnP Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2FwkXxj ► Connect with Allie on Social Media: https://twitter.com/conservmillen https://www.instagram.com/alliebstuckey/ https://facebook.com/allieBlazeTV/ ► Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Patrick answers questions about Catholicism, Baptist faith, suffering, prayer, politics, theology, and personal convictions. Listeners, moved by encouragement and candor, share their journeys and viewpoints as Patrick listens, responds, and challenges them to engage with life’s messiness. Email – You should run for office Bree - I am on the journey from Protestantism to Catholicism. I am torn about it because I feel peace at the Baptist church, but I think Catholicism makes more sense. (02:47) Gary - I think a lot of Catholics are experiencing 'Cognitive dissonance'. I also just learned about St Louis De Montfort and True Devotion to Mary. Do you have any biblical passages that reference the Immaculate Conception of Mary or the Assumption? (14:29) Cindy - I used a rosary meditation that referred to God as a creature. (19:02) Cecil - I think that the president spoke out against the pope first. I think Trump gets too extreme. The pope has a right to respond to Trump's comments. (21:44) Rick - The Church has been taken over by leftists, and we need to wake up to it. (27:06) Stewart - Suffering and Holiness: Why does suffering seem to be requirement for Holiness? (37:11) Efrank - If you see an apparition, should you report it to your pastor or your bishop? (44:47) Bill - I don't think the Pope mentioned Trump's name. I took it as a hint that Trump was trying to start war. I think that Trump isn't trying to start a war, he is trying to prevent a war. (48:06)

Ubi is here https://www.youtube.com/@ubipetrus3882In a multifaceted interview, Jay Dyer initially explains his reasons for converting from Protestantism to Catholicism and then from Catholicism to Orthodox Christianity before delving into how he started out in comedy, the story behind authoring his three books, his experience directing a television program, how he both met and began to work with both Alex Jones and Sam Hyde, appearing on Tucker Carlson's show, recent debates he has had, common logical fallacies one encounters in debates, the likely routes the current Israel-Iran war could take, as well as what the future may hold for Jay. Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/jay-sanalysis--1423846/support.

“How can I believe in the Trinity?” This question opens a discussion on the complexities of faith, including concerns about conversion from Protestantism and the potential conflict with family beliefs. Other topics include the challenges of Catholic practices versus dogma and the significance of adoration in the conversion process. Join the Catholic Answers Live Club Newsletter Invite our apologists to speak at your parish! Visit Catholicanswersspeakers.com Questions Covered: 07:28 – I need help believing in the Trinity. 18:44 – I was raised Protestant and my parents are anti-Catholic. Would it be dishonoring my parents to convert? 29:02 – I'm not Catholic because of how Catholicism is practiced and not necessarily about dogma. 35:07 – My one hang up to convert is adoration. 50:07 – Is there any connection between Matthew 7:24-27 and Matthew 16:18?