New Zealand actor
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Hosted by jared turner
Hosted by jared turner
5 episodes with jared turner
2 episodes with jared turner
3 episodes with jared turner
Links: My Tones Mechanic newsletter: imlearningmandarin.com Mandarin Companion: https://mandarincompanion.com/ Jared interviews me on his podcast: https://mandarincompanion.com/you-can-learn-chinese-podcast/63-the-truth-about-vocabulary/ -- Today, I'm joined by a special guest on the podcast, Jared Turner from Mandarin Companion. If you're learning Chinese, you've probably heard of Mandarin Companion's graded readers, which make it possible to read Mandarin from an elementary level. I used them a lot in my own learning journey, and as I've written on my blog, they were a game-changer for me when it came to reading. What makes this conversation extra special is that a few years ago, Jared actually had me on his podcast, the You Can Learn Chinese podcast, where we talked about my experiences learning Mandarin in lockdown. Now, it's my turn to turn the tables and interview him! We had a wide-ranging chat, covering how he got into learning Chinese, and why he decided to start the legendary Mandarin Companion graded reader series.
La belleza es sólo superficial. Wei, una estudiante china becada, viaja a Nueva Zelanda para estudiar investigación médica en una prestigiosa universidad. Tímida, introvertida y con una marca de nacimiento genética en el rostro, Wei es rechazada por su prima Angela, una mariposa social, y sus glamorosas amigas. Decidida a cambiar su destino, Wei se sumerge en la investigación de su difunto padre y trabaja en un revolucionario procedimiento de injerto de piel que podría curar su deformidad. A medida que sus experimentos toman un giro oscuro, se vuelve más peligrosa y desquiciada, dispuesta a eliminar a cualquiera que amenace su secreto. Grafted es una película body horror de Nueva Zelanda dirigida por Sasha Rainbow, protagonizada por Jess Hong, Joyena Sun, Eden Hart, Sepiutaruth To'a y Jared Turner. Episodio disponible en tu plataforma de podcast favorita. PLANETA TERROR es un podcast semanal en español dedicado al cine de horror/slasher/gore. Reseñas, noticias, rankings y discusión general desde el punto de vista de alguien cuyo “goal” en la vida es mudarse a Woodsboro, vivir en Elm Street y asistir al Campamento Crystal Lake. Apple Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/planeta-terror-podcast/id1539867451 Instagram https://www.instagram.com/planetaterrorpod/ X https://x.com/planetaterrorpd?s=21&t=jiQBxnyCEsmbvNpY8pNnmg TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@planetaterrorpodcast?_t=8mVo66trbrJ&_r=1
What if booking a private chef was as easy as ordering an Uber? Iyabo Bello is a serial founder and entrepreneur, best known for iKooK, an app connecting private chefs to their target audience. Join us as she shares the unlikely story of how she came up with the idea to start iKooK after working in fashion design and food science. We get into the weeds with the premise of the app, how it differs from other home chef experiences, and how the cooks are vetted before being allowed to register on the app. Iyabo shares her experience of navigating a double-sided marketplace and discusses the process of building an app and driving traffic toward it instead of her website. We discuss bootstrapping and outsourcing to create a user-friendly, effective app, and handling health and safety as a food service. Join us as we discuss the challenges and benefits of building iKooK, and what you can learn from her journey. Thanks for tuning in. Key Points From This Episode: Welcoming Iyabo Bello, founder of iKooK, and the story of the inception of her business. Her background in fashion design and food science. The premise of iKooK and how it differs from other home chef experiences. How the process behind vetting chefs has evolved. Navigating a double-sided marketplace. The challenge of finding the right chef with an eye for detail. Taking down the website to encourage users to book on the app. Bootstrapping and outsourcing to build the app. Handling health and safety and building it into the program. The inclusive and flexible nature of Iyabo's product. Challenges she has faced while building the app. How Jared and Sami would go about assessing the app and user experience. Links Mentioned in Today's Episode: Iyabo Bello on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/iyabobello/) iKooK Email (info@ikook.co.uk) iKooK (https://ikook.info/) Sami Birnbaum on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/samibirnbaum/?originalSubdomain=uk) Jared Turner on X (https://x.com/jaredlt) Jared Turner on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaredlt/) thoughtbot (https://thoughtbot.com) thoughtbot on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/150727/) thoughtbot on X (https://twitter.com/thoughtbot) Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots Podcast (https://podcast.thoughtbot.com/) Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots Email (hosts@giantrobots.fm) Support Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots (https://github.com/sponsors/thoughtbot)
What if, instead of asking how to integrate AI into your product, the question was, should you? During this episode, Jared Turner and Will Larry interview Senior Product Manager at thoughtbot and Founderland Startup Mentor, Bethan Ashley, who shares her insights and advice on how and when to leverage AI tooling. Sharing her career journey leading up to this point, Bethan makes the key distinction between project management and product management, and why this is essential to understand. Next, you'll hear about her views on the importance of talking to customers about your products and the different ways to reach them effectively. We get into some of the classic reasons that products fail, the appropriate time to bring in a product manager, and a few of the techniques, prompts, and exercises that Bethan favors when mentoring others. Join us as we unpack how to avoid common pitfalls, discuss practical steps to overcome the fear of failure, and share advice for those seeking to put AI tooling into their product. Thanks for tuning in. Key Points From This Episode: From building bespoke apps for companies to product management, mentorship, and more: Bethan Ashley's career journey. Distinguishing between project management and product management. Why talking to your customers is fundamental to successful products. Some of the many different ways to reach customers. Classic reasons that products fail. How to identify the point at which a product manager has become a necessity. Bethan's path to mentorship through Founderland. The Speedy Eights exercise that she uses to prompt ideas. Advice to avoid common pitfalls: just get started. Exploring the obstacle created by the fear of failure. Strategies from the book The Mom Test. Insights on AI in the day-to-day product management space. Advice for those seeking to put AI tooling into their product. Spicy takes on product management. Links Mentioned in Today's Episode: Bethan Ashley on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethanashley/) Founderland (https://www.founderland.org/) Customer Discovery Playbook (https://thoughtbot.com/playbook/customer-discovery/preparation-and-setup) The Mom Test (https://www.amazon.com/Mom-Test-customers-business-everyone/dp/1492180742) Gamma (https://gamma.app/) Gemini (https://gemini.google.com/) Loom (https://www.loom.com/) Figma (https://www.figma.com/) Motion (https://www.usemotion.com/) WIP is waste (https://thoughtbot.com/blog/wip-is-waste#) Jared Turner on X (https://x.com/jaredlt) Jared Turner on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaredlt/) Will Larry on X (https://x.com/will23larry) Will Larry on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/william-larry/) thoughtbot (https://thoughtbot.com) thoughtbot on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/150727/) thoughtbot on X (https://twitter.com/thoughtbot) Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots Podcast (https://podcast.thoughtbot.com/) Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots Email (hosts@giantrobots.fm) Support Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots (https://github.com/sponsors/thoughtbot)
Giant Robots On Tour Hosts Sami Birnbaum and Jared Turner introduce Sheng-Hung Lee, a designer, PhD researcher at MIT AgeLab, and board director at the Industrial Designers Society of America. Sheng-Hung shares his journey into design and engineering, emphasizing the importance of interpreting signals in design and the evolving role of designers from problem-solvers to culture shapers. He discusses how designers must now consider broader, systematic issues such as climate change and aging. Sheng-Hung explains that design is a teachable and essential life skill, highlighting the significance of personal experiences and failures in learning design. He elaborates on the concept of signals, explaining that they represent different perspectives and interpretations in design, which are crucial in addressing complex problems. The conversation shifts to practical design applications and Sheng-Hung's work in smart homes for aging populations. He discusses the integration of various smart systems and the importance of designing for different life stages rather than specific age groups. Jared and Sami also engage Sheng-Hung in discussing the worst and best-designed products, where Sheng-Hung mentions his initial skepticism but eventual appreciation for facial recognition technology. MIT AgeLab (https://agelab.mit.edu/) Industrial Designers Society of America (https://www.idsa.org/) Follow Sheng-Hung Lee on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/shenghunglee/). Visit his website: shenghunglee.com (https://www.shenghunglee.com/). Follow thoughtbot on X (https://twitter.com/thoughtbot) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/150727/). Transcript: SAMI: Hello again, and this is The Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots podcast, the Giant Robots On Tour Series coming to you from Europe, West Asia, and Africa, where we explore the design, development, and business of great products. I'm your host, Sami Birnbaum. JARED: And I'm your other host, Jared Turner. SAMI: If you are wondering, which you might have been for a while now, where are Will or Victoria, well, make sure you find one of our previous podcasts where we introduce the Giant Robots on Tour Series, and you'll understand why you're hearing myself and Jared a little bit more frequently than before. In that podcast, we throw random icebreakers at each other, and we find out that Svenja does not like online banking. And if you haven't listened to our previous podcast with our guest, Ishani, check that out as quick as you can and find out why AI is compared to babies. Joining us today is Sheng-Hung Lee, a Designer and PhD Researcher at MIT AgeLab and Board Director at the Industrial Designers Society of America. Sheng-Hung, I'm going to level with you. I've done my research. I've done my due diligence on the guests that we have on this podcast, and I'm exhausted. SHENG-HUNG: [laughs] SAMI: I've looked through your own website, and I've read as much as I can find about you. And between education, experience, awards, scholarships, there is an incredible amount of things that you're involved in that you get up to. And it really wasn't good for my own self-esteem just to see how much you have going on. SHENG-HUNG: [laughs] SAMI: Jared, a question for you first. Bear in mind, the only thing I've ever been awarded is my own driving license. So, our guest, Sheng-Hung, how many awards do you think he has currently listed on his website? Give a guess. JARED: Oh gosh, I remember looking at the page, and I remember having to scroll. SAMI: [laughs] Yeah, you had to scroll. JARED: Let's pick 33. SAMI: 33. Do you know what? It's not even close. Okay, he's nearly double that. So, he's up at 60 awards that are currently listed. So, we're talking about a guest that you guys do not want to miss. And you want to make sure that you get into this conversation. I always like to go back to the start with my guests. So, everyone has a story. And I'm interested, Sheng-Hung, in your journey and what led you into the world of design and engineering. SHENG-HUNG: My personal definition of design is, like, decoding signals. So, everything in our lives, like, we have different types of signals. How do we interpret the signal? How do we, like, understand, or perceive different types of signals in our lives? And I feel design is more like...not just creation. It is creation, for sure, but also about curation. I feel like, for me, problem-solving or, like, problem-defining is really interesting. And especially you mentioned, like, my very early stage as a designer, the reason I submitted my work to get an award is because I want to show my problem-solving skill. And I realize nowadays, like, the problem is too complicated. It's not just about solving problems, right? I mean, I feel design is more bigger than that, especially now most of the problems are systematic and complex. Climate change, right? Like, you think about aging, and you think about all this, like, sustainable issues. I feel like designers, like, for me, starting from problem solver, as engineer, and now more I've become like a translator, curator, or even, like, a culture shaper. How do you shape the culture you want, right? Especially now, like, AI it's just, like...that really let me rethink about my role as designer, you know, because everyone can have tons of ideas, but the truth is, like, we have so many ideas, but do you know what good taste is about? Do you know what the good qualities of life's about? So, you have to have some personal experiences to really help people to understand or curate the vision in the future. SAMI: That's really interesting. I struggle to dress my kids in the morning from a design perspective, right? I don't get colors, and I don't understand necessarily how they match and how to get things working. In fact, sometimes I'll dress my kids only to find that my wife has redressed the kids. Things are that bad at home. Do you think then design is something which can be taught, or is it something, like, innate? Is it something, in your own experiences, that it's kind of part of your nature? So, you see the world differently to someone like myself or Jared sees the world. Or could that be something which we could pick up on, you know, and learn about? SHENG-HUNG: Yeah, I definitely think design can be teachable. It's skillable. And I feel like, yeah, people talk about this is, like, a hardcore skill. It's a soft skill. No, I think design is a life skill. It's a human skill. So, that includes like, for example, like, yeah, how do you choose the color? How do you choose the clothes for kids? But also about, like, how do you celebrate the quality of lives, right? How do you, like, have better, like, qualities? And I feel like, I don't know, life skill means, like, team building, creative leadership, knows people, listening to people. And, for me, that's part of design because you're decoding different signals. You understand your life. You perceive different types of noises. Or how do you resonate with other people? And that's a life skill, I think. And I also feel most of the design skills I learned is actually not from school. It's from, like, personal life failure [laughs]. SAMI: That's really interesting. I just want to jump in because I don't know if I fully understand what you mean by signals. Can you just elaborate on that a little bit more? And then, I will bring you back up on personal failures. SHENG-HUNG: Signal is like different ways of seeing things, right? So, for example, like, if I go to wait in line for a free bagel, right? You share this with your friends. What I see is it's a free bagel. But what my friends see is like, oh, probably, like, I don't need to wait in line and so many challenges. You know, I have to, like, oh, why should I get this? But I see very clearly I want a free bagel. So, these are different. It's the same thing but different message mixed up, right? And then, for me, I see design, like, it happens every day. It's a life skill. For example, like, I saw the challenges, but what if we think another perspective to rethink about what kind of challenge [inaudible 06:38] or reframe the right questions, right? And all this, like, mixed all together, it feels like it's not just about drawing beautiful sketches or rendering sexy, you know, ideas. It's all about, like, how do you frame these challenges? How do you look at this? Can you see the question from social aspect, from cultural aspect, or you just see this as a solution-driven approach? JARED: In some cases, I feel, there is an element of subjectivity to the designs, but then we also want to measure the success of a design. Do you have any tips for, like, how you go about putting numbers to what defines success for a particular design? SHENG-HUNG: This is such a great question, especially now my research focus is really on services, you know, service design, experience design. Like, how do you quantify this, right? For example, three of us we go to the restaurant, and I feel it's really, really great restaurant. And probably some people feel no, that's not really great. And then, how do we quantify this, right? And then, I feel it's sometimes, like, really by personal preferences. It's hard to measure. Maybe there will be some sort of, like, a principle direction or criteria we can follow, so, for example, service quality metrics or something, like, based on people's life experiences. I feel it's hard to measure, especially now the design challenge the question it's really complicated. Some people talk about demographic. How do you, like, [inaudible 08:09] design? Like, for example, a participant design process, right? Or, like, inclusiveness. People talk about equity, power, power dynamic. And I think it's less of a measure or quantify. It's more about do you show your respect? Can we be more inclusive in this process? Can we really engage or integrate multiple voices in this design process? And I feel like that kind of shows the flexibility, also, the real flexibility of the design, not just that, oh, we look for one single solution. Because, most of the time, we actually want to design for a solution, but, actually, I feel now the shift is from we try to build the condition to let people land on this condition and solve the problem. So, in the end, we'll be like, yeah, we landed here, and we can solve the problem together collectively. So, something I feel a little bit different, but that's a great question. It's open-ended. Yeah. JARED: Yeah. Thank you. There's a lot to think about there. I want to bring it back to failure because this is something I think about a lot in terms of teaching and learning from history versus learning from your own failure. We have, like, thousands of years of history of failure. You think we have made all the mistakes already, and, oh, it should be easy, right? All we need to do is teach all of the young generation about all of this failure, and then they'll remember not to do it. But in reality, it doesn't really work that way. I find the strength of the argument is oftentimes weak compared to failing yourself and really deeply learning that lesson. I'm curious about your thoughts on that. And then, I'm also curious to hear about some of your, let's call them, best failures. SHENG-HUNG: I personally feel like people fail. They fail forward, not backward. So, even if you fail, you move a little bit. It depends on how crazy, right, and how fast you fail. It's an iterative process. The reason I say learning from failure because from traditional Asian family, Asian students, right? Probably in the past, I would say I raised my hand. I want to learn, or I ask senior people. I want to learn. But, actually, more than that, it says, "I want to experience. I want to be part of it," right? So, you're not becoming the manager because you learn to become a...no, you're in that position, and you learn to be a manager. So, I learned that mindset when I worked at IDEO. And one of the senior design directors told me, "No, you should say, 'I want to experience.'" So, that means that you have fully immersed experiences. And one of the best examples for me is that the first two years I worked at IDEO and IDEO Asia, supporting projects in Tokyo, Shanghai, Singapore offices, and sometimes European, like, office work; the first two years, my confidence almost collapsed. I have to collect my confidence. It's so hard because I'm eager to learn so many things. I didn't beat myself. And then, after two years, I met an amazing, like, design mentor. And I started the things I'm good at as product designer, a tangible designer. I start as product-focused and thinking about whole design process. And then, I start to collect my confidence. And I realized every single project at IDEO or in my life it's a vehicle, you know. And then, you always connect the dots when you're looking backwards. And you realize, oh, this is failure. Let me know what do you mean by client management? What do you mean by, like, teamworking? Because everyone is from so diverse background. And everyone says, "I'm a designer," but they have different interpretation. And how do you communicate it, right? And how do you keep the conversation transparent and also effective, and how do you empower people? And I feel because of that connect the dots process, also, all the things I want to learn, I want to experience it really helps me to grow at the third year or second year in IDEO. And that really makes me think about, oh, wow, I didn't know. I failed completely. And that's really healthy, for me, because you become very strong. At some point, I started to realize, oh, what do you mean by...what does it mean by design consultancy business? What we can sell. Where's our capacity, our limitation? You know, other than just, oh, everything's, like, imaginative conceptual. I kind of know what happened, and I know the boundary. And I know how can I empower people and also the client. SAMI: Yeah, embracing failure is a real strength. At thoughtbot, we kind of...if we're developing products and we're, let's say, designing or coding, whether websites or applications, we have this concept of failing fast. So, the faster you can fail, the quicker you can iterate towards the right solution. And that's something which is difficult to embrace because the first time you do it, I want this to be perfect, and I want to build it in the way that it works. But, actually, you'll spend a lot of time trying to get towards that perfection, and it's much better to ship faster, fail faster, and then get towards the solution. I noticed as well that...well, I read that the one thing you've been recently working on is designed for the aging population, so more specifically, smart homes for the aging populations. Shout out to my parents if they're looking for a smart home. Sorry, mom and dad. SHENG-HUNG: [laughs] SAMI: I've always found, especially my generation, so I'm about...I'm not about; I am 32 years [chuckles] old. So yeah, there's always been, like, a big gap between kind of my generation, the way we've engaged with technology products, the way my parents' generation have been able to. And I imagine a future where my kids are running around in VR headsets, and I'm still, you know, using a basic laptop. I would love to know more about your work kind of in this area and designing for a different sector of the population. SHENG-HUNG: My master thesis and my master project is focused on redesigning, like, smart footwear for aging population, and then that's part of the smart home ecosystem. And I was actually impressed and surprised. It's like most of the sponsors or clients we talk about, like, people [inaudible 14:38] to think about just the product level, so smart like [inaudible 14:43], smart like a door, or smart like, you know, like a bed or a smart, like, alarm clock. People start to think about how can we integrate all this system together? Because, like, for example, if you bought Amazon, you know, versus Apple and all these different devices, the platform is really a problem because the products cannot communicate with each other. And we want to make sure all the products can communicate and support you, or, like, they can at least receive your data or information to give the appropriate response. So, the smart home project starts to think about from ideas to become more like platform integration. IKEA is the best example, right? Like, I think two years ago, they talk about, yeah, they launched their first app, right? Everything is, yeah, it seems like, oh, what's the big deal about this, right? No, but you think of this from the intention perspective to actually connect the whole system together because they want to make sure their internal designer, developer they really can think through their own internal system to make sure everything's connected, interconnected, not just, oh, you do a part of this. We sell this to a certain Asian, and it didn't really connect. So, I feel like when we designed it, it's really from the system perspective to talk about a smart home. And then, regarding of, like, design across [inaudible 16:04] generation, that's really important, actually, because especially now I'm focused on design for retirement. And I shifted to design for longevity. And then, the cool thing about this is, like, we think about our life in terms of age, but, actually, now we need to think about our life in terms of different life stages, different lifestyle. The book called "Stage (Not Age)", means, like, now we cannot even describe people above 100 years old or 85 years. So, we call them future hood, right? So, like, different life stages. And I feel like that really impacts, as designers, the way we design products or interfaces, right? And it has to evolve with people. When you say, for example, if we have, like, a smart, like, a robot in our home, they have to know your personal routine. And you kind of grow, right? For example, oh, I get older. I move slower, or my mobility is different, and it changes. How does that mean to our product or our smart services? And I feel like across different generations, it's really thinking about design for different people in different life stages. And that's really important, not just about financial planning or about your future education, family, community, right? Now people are probably thinking about aging in place. My parents just bought a second home. They're thinking about retirement life. And so, these are things that really impact all aspects of life. And I feel like the idea of one solution for all the era is kind of over because we have to think about not just one solution, multiple solution tailor-made for multiple different people in different life stages. MID-ROLL AD: Are you an entrepreneur or start-up founder looking to gain confidence in the way forward for your idea? At thoughtbot, we know you're tight on time and investment, which is why we've created targeted 1-hour remote workshops to help you develop a concrete plan for your product's next steps. Over four interactive sessions, we work with you on research, product design sprint, critical path, and presentation prep so that you and your team are better equipped with the skills and knowledge for success. Find out how we can help you move the needle at: tbot.io/entrepreneurs. JARED: And, Sheng-Hung, in one of your articles that I was reading about design for longevity, you sort of say that design for aging isn't just about designing for older people, but rather, I think one of your colleagues asked this question, which I really liked, which is, how can inclusive methods build elegant design solutions that work for all? And I find that a really aspirational goal. But one of the things, say, at thoughtbot, when they're building a product, so we often talk about targeting a specific niche or a specific user base because then we can really optimize for them. And so, you're designing something that's elegant, and that works for all. It doesn't sound very easy. It sounds like a good challenge. And I'm curious about how do you go about that, and do you have any examples you can you can share? SHENG-HUNG: Design for all elegantly also seamlessly. Optimize everyone's needs or, like, design process. I feel...because my topic is focused on financial planning, right? And I think about everyone's income level is different. Their investable income asset is also different. We have a different situation, right? Our family issue, the healthcare condition is also different. And I feel like that, also, if we look at this question, we should think about, okay, how do we define design for all, right? Is it universal design, or is it inclusive design? I think there are definitely some, like, basic or fundamental, like, foundation or criteria we need to meet. Like, for example, human-centered, right? Or, like, we think about accessibility for certain technology. What's the threshold for a certain way of use the technology or product? That could be, like, a universal or, like, basic. Like I said, people's life stages are so different. And can we really make sure our product or interfaces is always dynamic, always change? Design for transformation, right? And I feel the ideas of changing is kind of scaring for most people. Because you don't want to, like, you woke up, and you realize your iPhone just update the whole interfaces, and you suddenly don't know how to use it [laughs]. It changed too dramatically. What I mean by change is like, it's a gradual integration process. And I feel that's kind of beautiful. Like, for example, the way I use my bicycle, the biking, right? They can ultimately adjust my speed, recharging, or understand my personal preferences. That could be something I think is powerful for future for providing the right solution, yeah. But also, it's a benefit of this, but also, there's downsides. Like, maybe because of that, we all live our own personal bubbles pretty well, right? Like, oh, yeah, yeah, I read a newspaper. No, you read the newspaper that I curated for you. So, somehow, the information started different [laughs]. So, there's a gap, but I don't know. It's very cool. It's very great, great question. I think there's still...I don't have the exact same answer, but I feel that could be potential for now. Yeah. JARED: Yeah, I really like that. So, it's not just a one-size-fits-all-all, but, like, it's a sort of an elegant transformation over the course of someone's life. We've discussed a few different things like design for longevity. You touched on there, as we were speaking, human-centered design. I know you've made a distinction of humanity-centered design as well, and there's also life-centered design. I wonder if you could give us and our listeners a little rapid-fire explainer of each of them. SHENG-HUNG: Like, when we talk about human-centered design, right? Like, it's, like, a buzzword. And everyone talks about HCD, and most people think, oh, if you got a post-it note, you're, like, a HCD designer. No, like, what does that mean, right [laughs]? It's very cliché. And they're like, oh, yeah, all these, like, HCD designers bring the post-it notes with Sharpies and go to facilitate tons of workshops, and they sit and know people. And I feel it's more than that, right? Human-centered is really, like, put yourself, designers, in the shoes of clients, users, customers, and participants to know their needs, their desire and address their pain point. And I think for human-centered design like Don Norman said in his latest book, it's not just about design as a discipline. It also covers, like, politics, covers, like, ethical issue, culture. It's broader. And, for me, the simplest version is, like, you design with care. You design with human temperature. We create technology with human temperature. That means that we're now for this technology to [inaudible 23:13] technology. We know why we need that technology. So, for example, if you provide the, like, the cell phone to the developing countries, you probably don't want to send, like, the latest cell phone. You want to send them, like, the adequate technology. What I mean by that is like, it's very, like, stereotype, but I'm trying to explain the idea is like, oh, Nokia could be a great option at this point, for example. You can communicate. You don't need, like, crazy, like, AR VR function. You at least can communicate. So, it's adequate. I think that kind of lens is, like, you think about the culture, the needs, economic, social status. And then, you can start to move on and upgrade the devices. And I feel like life-centered is even broader. It's like, can you design something to the lens of cats, your pets, your animals? So, it's really like, it's really...it sounds a little bit like a speculative design. But the truth is, like, we can shift our perspective to different kinds of species, cross-species, not just focus on human, because everything we design definitely starts from also for a human being. But now life-centered is like, it's longer, broader. And then, for me, it also means like, we just talk about life-centered. It's like, really think through all different stages of life, not just, like, focus on one single age or a single stage, too specific, too narrow. It's, like, broader. So, when we talk about life-centered design, LCD, we really think about a lot of different systems, framework. What's the model we can follow? You know, so we're also thinking about policy, about power dynamic, government, ethical issues. So, this, I think, like, it's broader, and it's really large. Sometimes it's pretty vague, for sure. We have to use some cases or really think about in different contexts. Context is really important, designed for different contextual knowledges and needs. SAMI: Yeah, I think that is actually a really helpful understanding. Myself I don't know anything about those concepts, so to kind of get that theoretical understanding and explanation from yourself is really helpful. In a more practical sense, I have a question, which is a very selfish question. The reason it's a selfish question is because I want to know what do you think? When you look at the world through your designer lenses, what do you think is the worst-designed product you've ever seen or come across? And I think I know the answer to this. I think there is a right answer. While you have a think, I'll share my answer. I don't know if you have this because you said you're based in Boston at the moment. And I'm showing you because we're on camera, but I will describe it to the listeners as well is what they've done with bottles now is when you open, like, a Coke bottle, for example, all other beverages are available...Coke, if you want to sponsor us [laughter], we're happy just to mention you. When you take the bottle cap off, it's now connected to the top of the bottle. So, someone has decided...now, I understand the reason behind it. They're saying that it's for recycling. So, when you throw your bottle away, make sure the cap goes with the bottle. But someone has sat there, and they've designed the bottles. So, when you take off the cap, it's still connected to the top of the bottle. And countless times, I'm either pouring into a cup or pouring into my mouth. And that cap is getting in the way. So, the liquid kind of goes into that cap, and it spills on me, or it spills on the table. This is an absolute design failure, a catastrophe in my eyes. That's my worst design that I've come across in real life. Do you have anything you can think of that you look at, and you're like, who designed this? SHENG-HUNG: This is such a great example because I did have similar experiences when I went to Milan Design Week last year. All the plastic bottle is, like, connected. The cap connects with the bottle. And I didn't know that it's on purpose at the very beginning. I thought, how come it's, like, connected? I want to take it out because it's easier for me to drink. And I realized it's not just this one; all of them is the same [laughs]. Yeah, that's a great example. I think, for me, design for failure adapter, for example, you know, adapter, like dongle, right? Like, we have so many different...this guy HDMI cable, the cable for iPhone, and the magnet for my Apple MacBook Pro. That's painful because you try to find, like, when you go to, like, a talk or a speech or try to present something, I think, for me, the easiest way is, like, AirPlay, right, Wi-Fi or Bluetooth to connect to the projector. But in reality, you always need this HDMI cable. And this guy connects with my Mac. There's some problem. It depends on...now I always bring my adapter with me. It's just like, we have that [inaudible 28:04] like, you know, it almost, like, very frequently, if we're meeting, you have to show your screen. How can we design less physical but it's user-friendly, right? People use Mac. People use Apple, use, like, Microsoft. How do you design something like a universal adaptable to everyones, just sharing screen? This is what I need. So, I think this could be one bad design, I think, at this moment [laughs]. SAMI: Yeah, that's a great example as well, and so frustrating. And I wonder if it's, like, a money-making scheme, you know, everyone has their own chargers. And that's a way kind of they make some income as well on the side. Jared, what have you seen in the world? What's your pet peeve? What really grinds your gears? JARED: This was easy for me. It came to me straight away. Any door that has a handle that you can wrap your hand around which signifies it should be pulled that is push. It's just, I mean, what is going on there? It drives me bonkers. SHENG-HUNG: [laughs] SAMI: That is brilliant. I think it's only fair if we flip the question, right? And then, we say, what's the best thing you've seen designed, right? There must be something out there where you've gone, "Oh, that is so useful. That makes so much sense. Why haven't we done that until now?" And have you kind of...I guess this is for Sheng-Hung, like, have you got any inspiration from that sort of thing? SHENG-HUNG: I have to be honest. Like, I really feel like in the past, I'm kind of scared about, like, use your face to unlock your phone. But the more I use it, I feel like, oh my God, this is so convenient. You just look at it. I know it's a bit scary because they have all your biometric data information. I know even you protect under the regular law, but still, I feel like, yeah, it's so seamless connected. And I feel maybe the better answer is like, I feel a great design is, like, to reduce the friction between the transition of devices by devices, right? So, for me, I mean, so interface by interface. So, when I share the data on my phone, what does that mean? From phone to my computer or phone to other people, right? All the different interfaces changing. The less friction, the better. I feel seamless connected. So, you know, AirDrop, super convenient, photos, videos with people, Mac users. But what does that mean for, like, Windows users, right? And so, every platform has their own, like, spec, or criteria. And I feel if the user can feel the seamless friction between these interfaces, for me, that could be a great design solution. JARED: I love that answer. And I love that description of reducing friction. It reminds me a little bit of, I think, my favorite book on UX is by Steve Krug, which is "Don't Make Me Think." And it's just all about doing the simplest thing, reducing confusion, overcoming objections, and reducing friction. So, I really love that. I do have an answer for this one as well. It's a little bit selfish or focused on my own life. So, I have a dog. She's a Welsh Terrier called Rosie. She's just turned one. Whenever we used to go out, you've got to take water for her if it's a hot day. I always used to take a bottle, whether you could unscrew the top or not, I'm not sure, Sami, and, like, a little bowl to put that in, or you use your hands. And, invariably, she's not going to drink all of the water, so you've got waste. You throw that out. The bag gets wet, all of that. Someone has designed this really cool bottle where the top is actually the bowl. It's an all-in-one. And you press a button; the water goes into the bowl. She drinks. Whatever's left, you press the button again, turn it upright. And the water just flows back in into the rest of the bottle. It's such a simple thing. But, like you say, it just reduces that friction. Anytime a problem no longer exists, manual to automatic cars, fight me, I'm all for it. Well, that's a problem solved. That's less friction. That's beauty in the world. SAMI: Yeah, I think it's amazing. When you think about these examples, it really brings out how much of an impact design has. So, you can have the best product in the world, but if you don't get that frictionless design, or you don't get that design that's going to really bring that improvement, it's going to be difficult to make that product a success. And I think there's some, like, when I think about leaders and innovators in this kind of space, so I know you already mentioned IKEA and I think of Apple. And I don't know the answer to this, and maybe our listeners also wonder, like, how do these companies...they seem to keep getting it right. No matter what happens, they seem to set the trends, and they get their design spot-on, and they innovate in that space. How are they so successful in their design? SHENG-HUNG: I think a recent example is like, you know, like, Apple just recently launched the Vision Pro, right? The XR, the goggles. And put the demo time 30 minutes to get in-store experiences. You're booking the demo time with them, the 30 minutes. For me, I wrote an article about it. It is less about the goggle itself. It is about the whole experiences. The time you enter the store, right, and then you're waiting there, who guiding you? The Genius Bar people guiding you. You sit down. You have the prescription and your glasses that get measured, scan the QR code, and find the match [inaudible 33:35] pair of goggles that fit your [inaudible 33:37] of your face. And they put it on. They sit on the side, use the iPad to guiding you, and tell personal experiences or stories. These companies are very design-driven, vision-driven company. They really think about the whole experiences of users, right? And, for me, it's too pricey, for me, the product, obviously, right now. But I have very delightful, positive experiences because of that 30-minute demo. So, I kind of plant the seeds in my heart. Oh, if the second generation or something have discount, I would definitely want to get one for myself. Not really because...it's a great design for sure, but also, the impression I have. And I feel that really, really, like, make a difference, right? It's tiny. It's very subtle. They can, "No, we don't have, like, demo experiences." They can just purely sell the product. But I think they sell something bigger than just product. Branding user experiences, delightful experiences. And I can really feel that, and that's really powerful in the end. JARED: Do you think that that sort of level of design is limited to the companies that can afford it like the big names? Like, obviously, there is a cost dedicated to having the time and to putting the resources to that. Is it always just going to be the big players, or are there things we can do to democratize that availability for the startups, for the SMEs? SHENG-HUNG: I actually think it's about a company's culture. So, another example I would love to share is, like, when we did, like, an inspiration trip in Tokyo, and there's a very famous, like, chain bookstore called Tsutaya bookstore or Tsutaya electrics. So, to my surprise, like, yeah, it's a big bookstore, and we probably think bookstore selling books. No, they're actually selling a lifestyle. So, for example, like, if I want to buy the book around how to use a camera, right, the way they curate it, it's like, yeah, we do have the books around camera, but also, we'll put the real camera, like, near the book. So, they curate the whole experiences. You flip the book. Oh, this is so cool. Thanks, I want to try it. You probably, in the end, you got both. So, very interesting and also very human-centered, like, retail experiences. Why did I say culture? Because when I entered the store, I asked for one book I was looking for. The staff came to me, and she bring two books to me. One is the book I want, unpack. And one is the book...it's the same book, but without the plastic cover. It's brand new. And why she brought two books to me because if I want to buy this book, I not only read inside, but also, I can just get the new one with me to check out. And this is so subtle, right? Because they're not just bringing you, like, the sample. They also bring the final product with you. So, I feel that kind of culture is, like, very strong, customer-centered, think about your needs, think about your next step. So, they kind of plan ahead, and this is so strong message to me. Oh my God, this is such a great design culture, or at least a human-centered culture to think about my needs, my decision-making process. So, I feel connected with that, and I feel like, yes, they have money, but also, like, they really cultivate that culture within the...not just...they also send a message to their customers. SAMI: I feel like, Sheng-Hung, we could speak to you for hours. I mean, you are opening my world and my eyes to a different world of design. I've got one final question for you before we wrap up that I wanted to cover. I've seen from your website, like, you've personally designed products. So, out of all the products you've either designed yourself or you've been involved with, what would you say, and could you describe for us your favorite product that you've designed yourself? SHENG-HUNG: I think my favorite product is, like, I help and re-design, like, Shanghai Library Innovation Space that, for me, is OMG. Oh my God. It's crazy. Like, one single team, my side project and collaborate with the full staff, librarian, the leadership team. What is powerful is, like, library for them in Shanghai, it's a local hub to connect the community and also to teach, to learn for the younger generation how to use the space. For sure, most people use that space for, like, self-studying, you know, activity and all this stuff. But, for me, like, it's so impactful because every single change that means a lot of impact because it's a public space. And also, it's really, really powerful. Like, you think about the decision-making process. You have to think about feasibility, viability, and also desirability, all things to connect together. And it's really hard, not easy process. It took me about a year-long project. And I'm really happy because, in the end, it's really from sketches, concept, prototyping models, all the way they rebuild, modify the design, integrated. And now the new library they build on another area of Shanghai is really based on this model and framework. I'm very happy, and I also feel like, yeah, design can make a positive impact. It's not like a concept. It's real. And it's nice. It's painful, but it's really satisfying, yeah [laughs]. SAMI: That's really cool when you get to a point where you've done something, and then you see people using what you've designed and, like, enjoying that space and benefiting from all that hard work that you've put into. I have to thank you so much for joining us and giving us time today on the Giant Robots On Tour Series of the Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots podcast. Our listeners don't know, but you've had about two hours of sleep. SHENG-HUNG: [laughs] Yeah. SAMI: So, it's probably time for you to get back into bed yourself. But that is your dedication to us. It's been an incredible episode and an incredible chat. I finally understand why Jared does not like doors. I myself, you will understand if you see me in the street and I'm tearing a bottle cap off of a bottle, you'll understand why. And we need to sort Sheng-Hung out with more adapters with just a single charger for all his devices. If people want to get a hold of you, Sheng-Hung, where's the best place they can reach out after listening to this podcast? SHENG-HUNG: Yeah, definitely, you can reach out through my personal website portfolio. Yeah, shenghunglee.com. And I'm happy to respond and discuss about design-related topic. Thanks for having me on this podcast. It's very exciting, and hope we can create all the great stuff for our society. SAMI: Pleasure. There's always a challenge I give to my listeners at the end, and it normally is just please hit that subscribe button. Jared has promised me that he will do a shoey if we can double our subscribers by the end of the series. If you don't know what a shoey is, my only advice to you is do not Google it because you do not want to know. You can find notes and a complete transcript for this episode at giantrobots.fm. If you have any questions or comments, you can email us at hosts@giantrobots.fm. This podcast is brought to you by thoughtbot and produced and edited by Mandy Moore. Thanks for listening. See ya. AD: Did you know thoughtbot has a referral program? If you introduce us to someone looking for a design or development partner, we will compensate you if they decide to work with us. More info on our website at: tbot.io/referral. Or you can email us at: referrals@thoughtbot.com with any questions.
In this special episode, host Jared Turner takes you inside a study abroad trip to China with a group of teenagers including his two sons. These teenagers, who have been learning Chinese for years in a dual language immersion program, finally get to put their skills to the test in the wild, navigating real-world challenges, stepping out of their comfort zones, and experiencing those "aha" moments of realizing they can truly speak Chinese! From hilarious mishaps to triumphant conversations, these stories will inspire as you witness the magic of immersive learning. Don't miss this exciting episode packed with adventure, growth, and the real impact of learning Chinese! Links from the episode: Mandarin Companion graded readers T-Shirts for Mandarin Learners | Mandarin Companion
In this episode of the Giant Robots Smashing into Other Giant Robots (On Tour!) podcast, hosts Sami Birnbaum and Jared Turner are joined by Ishani Behl, CEO and Founder of Skillopp and Sustainr. Ishani, an instructional designer by trade, began her journey by creating online courses and eventually moved into sustainability, inspired by her exposure to startups at the UNDP. She founded Sustainr, a platform that connects sustainable brands, and Skillopp, which simplifies learning using AI, aiming to reduce information overload. Ishani discusses how her educational background and experiences shaped her desire to improve learning and sustainability. She emphasizes the importance of dejargonization and how Skillopp uses AI to make complex information more accessible. She also highlights Sustainr's role in connecting sustainable brands with resources and opportunities, fostering a community that emphasizes collaboration over competition. Her journey reflects a commitment to creating impactful, sustainable business practices and improving educational approaches through technology. Throughout the conversation, Ishani shares her challenges in balancing multiple ventures, the importance of delegation, and her approach to building trust within her communities. She provides insights into the evolving landscape of e-learning and sustainability, emphasizing the need for personalized learning and effective communication. Skillopp (https://www.skillopp.com/) Follow Skillopp on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/skillopp/). Sustainr (https://www.sustainr.co/) Follow Sustainr on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/econet2021/) or Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/sustainr.22). Follow Ishani Behl on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ishanibehl/). Follow thoughtbot on X (https://twitter.com/thoughtbot) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/150727/). Transcript: SAMI: This is the Giant Robots Smashing into Other Giant Robots podcast, the Giant Robots on Tour series coming to you from Europe, West Asia, and Africa, where we explore the design, development, and business of great products. If you have no idea about this Giant Robots on Tour series, then please make sure you listen to our previous podcast, where we throw random icebreakers at each other and we have fun naming the new series. So, make sure you don't miss out on that one. I'm your host, Sami Birnbaum. JARED: And I'm your other host, Jared Turner. SAMI: And with us today is Ishani, CEO and Founder of Skillopp, which simplifies learning to amplify performance through AI, and Sustainr, the Fiverr for sustainable brands. We are so delighted to have you with us, Ishani, today. We're going to get more into depth and into detail exactly where you're at and what you're doing at present. But I always like to go back to the start with my guests because there's always a journey and a story about how they got to where they are. Would you give us some details about how you got to the place you are today? ISHANI: Definitely. It's great to be on this. I'm delighted to also kind of share my story. It's been quite a journey. It all started a few years ago. I'm an instructional designer so that basically means that I design online courses for a living. So, if you see those ads on Instagram, "Hey, come to my masterclass," what I basically do is that I help in designing the whole course from the beginning but in a much better way. I guess this whole journey of Sustainr and Skillopp really started after I graduated. So, I went to King's College, and I pursued a degree in liberal arts, after which I worked at UNDP. And I was exposed to this world of sustainability and all these really cool startups that were coming up in this space. And I thought to myself that this is such an interesting and innovative field to be in. In every single startup that, you know, you would really do research around, you would just find these really interesting bits of information that you really didn't know. And I think that the business models per to se is also kind of like a way to emulate how you can live your own life in a much more efficient manner. That's why sustainability is called sustainability for a reason so that you can really sustain your livelihoods for a much longer amount of time. I think just building upon that, when the pandemic started, I really thought of doing something around this. And we kind of created a community of practice, so to say, of just sustainable brands around the country, in the UK and India. We started connecting them with various opportunities, so it sort of became like a Fiverr [laughs] of sorts where we would kind of connect them to various kinds of opportunities that would help them grow. I think when I went back to London for my master's, a lot of people in the faculty really liked the idea. And they were able to provide us with some funds, and we won a number of competitions. And that really led to the beginning of Sustainr, and we currently have around 40 brands on our platforms. We keep on having a lot of collaborations. We've also raised grants for a few startups as well. This idea of really merging learning with the community created impact, and I had no idea about that. And I think when I started creating courses as well for other brands and other companies, this whole idea of Skillopp also emerged as well, where we really took into account one very important concept, which was dejargonization. Now, I'm not too sure if you're aware about this, but there's this very big problem that's happening in the world right now. It's called the information overload. If you think about it, every single time you open, you know, some piece of content, or a reel, or anything, you see so many words that you just don't understand whether it's Web3, crypto, Bitcoin [chuckles], whatever it might be. So, what we basically did in that case through Skillopp, which was this new vertical that we created, we basically simplified content through using different AI tools. And that would really help automate digital learning and communication in organizations. And we've currently worked with the top MNCs in the world as well. The whole idea, in a nutshell, in terms of my life so far, has really been around how exactly you can design content in the most simplest way possible. How do you dejargonize it? And also, how do you create impact in the sustainable space? Because that is one key area that I think can really teach us so much about our own lives and can create so much of impact given the current climate crisis as well. JARED: That was a great intro. Thank you. You're working on two businesses. Are you still studying, or you finished studying now? ISHANI: I finished studying. JARED: You finished. So, I guess you were studying while you were working. ISHANI: Mm-hmm. JARED: But now you're working on two. So, how did you or how do you balance all of that? And how do you choose what to prioritize when they probably both seem just as important? ISHANI: I think it took me some time to figure that out. It's not easy. I'm somewhat of an overthinker. So, it just so happens to be that when you think about several problems that your business is facing, you know, whether it's, you know, people; it's sales; it's operations, it just really makes you really flustered, and, you know, you're unable to figure out what do I exactly prioritize. One thing that really helped me was just reflecting on the business models and what I was up to, as well as what exactly deserved the amount of priority that it needed to. So, what really ends up happening is that I think there's a lot of reflection on how do you delegate tasks, and that's how I exactly manage two businesses. I really believe in this whole concept that, as an entrepreneur, everybody looks at you and everyone's like, "Yeah, you must be doing it all," right? Like, the marketing, the sales, especially in the beginning. But I believe that when you learn the art of delegation and just kind of letting go and surrendering that, okay, no, you know, I have a team who's handling this aspect of the business, and I should not worry about it, you automatically can start focusing on other aspects. And I think that's how I started prioritizing. I divided the tasks into whatever really received utmost importance in the beginning that was easier to do, and then, you know, you sort of get the hang of it. I'd also like to add to the fact that I think we don't talk about this really often but look at, like, our moms, right? Like, they handle a household and their work at the same time, and they can do it. So, you know, I really think to myself, there are so many people who might be handling more than that, then why can't I do it? I think just setting that motivation really, really helps. And you can then start figuring out how to delegate, how to prioritize. But I think mindset is key because if you don't have the right mindset, you won't be able to do it. SAMI: As a father of four, that analogy really resonates with me in terms of juggling all those different balls at the same time. But I can imagine it's exhausting as well. But you touched on this concept of dejargonization, which I love because I think there is such a barrier to learning sometimes because humans take simple things and make them complex. And it sounds like, through your e-learning platform, you're taking complex things and returning them back to being simple. I've seen you describe yourself as a bad learner. ISHANI: [laughs] SAMI: What does that mean, and how exactly has that impacted you? ISHANI: In the beginning, the reason why I pursued education, I guess, there was this very rebellious instinct that I had in mind. When I was in school, it was so different. I was told to especially memorize certain formulas in math. And there was this really gigantic physics book that I had to learn and, you know, kind of memorize the formulas and understand the concepts, no pictures at all. And, you know, you just had to be perceived as, hey, you know, if you can memorize them and you can get good grades, you are really, really smart, but if you can't, then that basically means that you don't have any future. And that was the kind of mindset that I grew up in. And I think I had this rebellious instinct that if supposing I couldn't, like, especially because in science, I was really, really bad. I used to hate those horrible textbooks. I was just like, how can somebody learn through this? And I was just like, no, I want to change this. I want to change the way people approach education and learning. And I started seeing this and this started becoming so relevant. A lot of us today might perceive that they know certain concepts. But when we start having a conversation around that concept, there are so many misconceptions that are created because of these preconceived notions of how they were taught earlier about a certain concept as well in school, right? I guess my mission is to kind of eliminate that barrier of questioning concepts right in the beginning when somebody is learning and not being like, hey, you know, if I don't understand this word, if I don't understand this concept, I'm really smart. I'm going to figure it out. I hate the Superman complex that people have these days. I know it all. I really, really know it all. And I'm just like, well, do you? This is one of my favorite slogans, like, if you can't teach it, then don't preach it. And [laughs] I think that I keep on following that slogan all my life that if I really don't understand anything, I have to figure out a way to understand it, and that doesn't mean that I'm dumb or stupid. I have to figure out a way in terms of understanding that concept. That's why I call myself a bad learner because I used to hate how I was taught in school. And I was just like, you know, I'm not going learn like this, either I have to change the way I think and I learn. That's the only way that I will do that. And that's why I got into education. I was just like, I really want to take some revenge on this [laughs]. SAMI: I love that. That really resonates with me. I would also, in that sense, I would describe myself as a bad learner, but someone with a good memory, especially when I didn't understand things. I'll never forget when I was studying for my degree. I actually wasn't far from you. I think you were in King's College. ISHANI: Oh. SAMI: Well, I was down the road in LSE. ISHANI: Oh, nice. Neighbor. SAMI: Yes, I remember studying for my degree there, and there was one topic I was studying that I just couldn't understand and get my head around. But there's kind of a way to play the system, and that is memorizing things. So, I promise you, I memorized sentences. I could not tell you what they meant, but I used them in my exam. It was kind of cheating, in a way, but it was kind of also working with the system that I had in front of me. But it sounds like if I had something like an e-learning platform at that time, that is something which could have explained things properly and played into strengths that I might have had that I wasn't able to discover in the regular system. Do you see e-learning platforms...and I've seen this actually from people who, let's say, are studying for their A levels in this country now, which is exams they do ages of, I think, 17 or 16. A lot of them are turning to YouTube, and they learn from YouTubers, and there's other platforms. Do you see e-learning as something which could replace more conventional education, either high schools, degrees? Is that where you see the industry heading? ISHANI: Well, I wouldn't say that e-learning can replace educational systems. I think, at the end of the day, when it comes to e-learning platforms, as well, I really love them. But I wouldn't say that they're as personalized as you would think. They could be. And the number one element to learn well is to personalize learning because everybody is different. Everybody thinks differently. Everybody has a very different process of thinking. Some people learn in a very auditory way. Some people like listening to podcasts like the ones that you're conducting. Some people like learning visually. Some people like learning kinesthetically. Sometimes what I believe is that not every single e-learning platform can do justice to every single style of learning or every single individual. And I'm pretty sure there are 500 more styles of learning that we in the L&D space still haven't discovered yet. I think what e-learning can do and how we can really benefit from e-learning is using it as a tool. We should not depend on e-learning platforms completely, like, in terms of even, like, just simplifying content or, like, figuring out a way in terms of writing an essay. That is something that perhaps we can use it as a tool to brainstorm upon, that it makes our lives much easier. At the end of the day, AI, artificial intelligence, as well as all these e-learning platforms that are coming up, it's a way in terms of conducting the menial tasks that you really didn't want to do so that you can focus on the big stuff. I think if we start approaching e-learning in that way and, you know, also figure out how to set limitations in terms of how we don't depend on it; we will not have, like, a crisis in terms of how we're looking at social media today, where everybody is just addicted to their phones. JARED: Ishani, I wanted to ask specifically about your product, Skillopp. Who's your target market? You know, we've talked a lot about sort of learners from an education perspective, like high school, university. Are you targeting them, or is it more business, commercial users? And how did you discover that market as well? ISHANI: Great. So, I think, again, it really happened to be upon chance. So, like, a little bit more about Skillopp. It's not exactly how a product works. We work in a much more adaptable and flexible manner in terms of how you can use AI to simplify content as well. We started working with a number of corporates through word of mouth, I guess, and we created a lot of impact in that space. And what we did was that we would figure out what would be the best platforms and tools that they can deploy. And we would put them onto one system, and we would develop that for them. So, how it would really end up working would be, like, this very flexible product that we would make as per the needs of the corporate itself, rather than making something of our own, which could not be flexible or adaptable to what the corporation wanted as well. It's really cool because we just end up building on various kinds of innovations. Like, recently, we would also be open to various forms of different tech partnerships in terms of building those systems as well. So, it just ended up creating this collaboration over competition mindset and where everything happened to be, like, this win-win formula when we would build products. And we would kind of go to these businesses as a service, and we would end up building a product for them. I think, that way, it was very interesting to see how that journey really happened. And I think it was just through experimentation, and I really experimented a lot. We do also have, like, some developers who are working with us. And we would kind of go out of our way to figure out what the company or the corporate really wants. And we started building upon these products and then we were able to, like, deploy those particular needs of what that organization wanted in terms of what kind of product they really wanted and how they wanted to simplify content. So, it was, like, as if it was made by them, not by us. And it provided that sense of pride within the organization that, hey, you know, this is something that I really built. This whole concept just got extended through word of mouth to various different organizations and institutions. But, like, through some random way, and I always thought that I'm going to work with an institution first, it just so happened to be working in the corporate space, which is very strange. But I guess that's how entrepreneurship, to a certain extent, works with so much of experimentation that went on. JARED: You're using generative AI as part of that to identify, let's say, jargon and then simplify that language. And one of the problems that generative AI has is what they call the hallucination problem, where it sort of makes stuff up that's not true. Have you encountered that? And I'm curious of any ways you're trying to tackle it. ISHANI: [laughs] So many times. I think AI it's like raising a baby, you know [laughs]. I always like to use that anecdote because [laughs], like, my experience in terms of, like, generative AI and AI, in general, it's always been, like, as if I'm bringing a baby up in terms of, you know, the machine learning aspect of it. I think, yeah, we've encountered that quite a number of times. I think the best way in terms of also approaching this hallucination aspect is to kind of keep the task as specific as possible. If you want to teach somebody a little bit about sales and how do you exactly approach a customer in terms of closing in a deal, right? The way we can approach it. How do you simplify that process for, let's say, sales agents, right? It's to kind of really figure out what is that particular skill that the sales agent really needs help upon. So that if we try and specify it more, then the AI will really understand that, okay, I have to stick to this boundary. I really can't go out of that. And making it as specific as possible really helped us in the process, and they were able to really upskill themselves in that one specific subskill. And we really, really worked on that conversation to such an extent that I even know the script of that conversation in terms of how a sales agent is supposed to negotiate and what would that script be for that particular industry and that organization. So, I think just specifying it as much as you can really helps. I think the hallucination effect happens so much, and that is one problem and also an area that I'd love to do more research in as well. JARED: So, humans aren't going anywhere just yet. ISHANI: Yeah, not going anywhere. Actually, I really don't think so. A lot of people just keep on talking about AI is going to be...and I would...actually, this is a question that I'd love to ask both of you as well that do you think AI is really going to replace human beings? And everybody just keeps on talking about it, and I don't really think so. But what do you think? JARED: Oh, gosh, we could have a whole episode just on this. ISHANI: [laughs] JARED: There's a lot of parallels to the industrial revolution, where everyone said all of the machinery that was created was going to get people out of jobs, farming, and agriculture. And all it really did was shifted the demand for resources into different and slightly more specialized roles. I think we'll see a similar shift with AI. I do think, in time, there will be a significant portion of existing jobs that might go the way of AI overlords. But I'd like to think there'll always be a place for us little humans. What about you, Sami? SAMI: I love this question. I think I've gone around the houses with this one. So, I've gone through different phases of like, oh my gosh, we're all going to die, and no one's going to have any more jobs, and we don't know what we're going to do. Even to the extent that I was really proud of myself that I learned on YouTube how to silicon my bathroom because I was adamant that AI could not do that. And so, if all else goes to pot, then at the very least, I have a skill that is valuable. And then, recently, I've seen the robots they're coming up with, so even that is not really going to work for me. It's really difficult to know. It's so difficult. I find generative AI less compelling because of the hallucinations that we've spoken about. I see that as being far off, and a lot of it depends on the accuracy. Your baby analogy is great. Because the way we're used to interacting with computers is they give us responses that are kind of, like, binary. They're either right or they're wrong. It's like a green light, red light relationship. And when it comes to generative AI, you need to have that more personal relationship with the computer to have that conversation back and forward to get it where you want it to be. Something that has definitely come more to the forefront is discriminative AI, which is AI that can tell a difference between certain data sets. So, I see that taking off a lot more. So, for example, they're using it in, like, the medical sector where the AI can discriminate or tell the difference between certain brain scans in terms of understanding what might be an issue and what might not be an issue. So, that is very powerful. We've actually had that for quite a long time. But as computing power is becoming more affordable, as certain chips have become available, it's becoming more widespread, and we can harness that a lot more. So, discriminative AI, I think, is being very disruptive, and I think it will continue to be. Degenerative AI, I'm not sure because of the difficulties you've spoken about. But worst-case scenario, I will personally come and silicon your bathroom. So, the e-learning company that you have, that seems more familiar to me. And maybe it could be also potentially more familiar to some of our listeners because a lot of us have kind of grown up on YouTube. And I'm not comparing it to YouTube. I know it's a very different beast altogether. It's something which we could possibly identify with and understand more. The Sustainr aspect is a little bit more foreign to me. So, I'd love to get to understand more of what the Sustainr company that you have is all about and how it works. ISHANI: Like I said, I think Sustainr is this very interesting community that we built over the pandemic kind of touching upon this whole aspect of...and I think I'll also, like, come to this point in terms of how Skillopp and Sustainr are also kind of interlinked. It all, actually, technically speaking, started with the same problem: dejargonization. What really happened was that when you also start a startup, especially in the sustainable space, what a lot of people, and when I talked to a lot of founders, especially the 40 brands that we have on our platform, it's like, "Ishani, I just don't know who exactly to approach. I don't know what...supposing I'm trying to find sourcing materials related to my business, supposing I'm trying to find individuals who can create content that is based on the concept of my business, I just don't see the results. And I don't see that people are able to understand and comprehend what I'm trying to talk about." And I feel like this is also perhaps a cultural problem as well. I mean, for example, this has been my experience as well as a number of people in India. Because India is currently growing at a massive rate with the economy, as well as the startup boom that's happening. If you think about it, every single person's mindset is like, I really need to get this done. And that's why a lot of us are also very impatient. So, just thinking about how we're actually really thinking, we create, like, this impatience sort of situationship in our head. And we don't want to perhaps learn about new things. That stops us from learning and really digging deep because we're just like, no, no, no, we need to get this done, and we need to hustle. And there's a lot of that culture that's present over here because our economy is growing. Startups are booming. And there's lots of work to be done. Like, trust me, if you come to Bangalore or Bombay, you will actually feel that pressure [laughs]. So, really thinking about that mindset, what really happens is that when somebody, especially in Southeast Asian countries or especially in a country like India, are looking for stuff for their sustainable business, a lot of people are like, "But what is sustainability? What is ESG? Is it just environment-related?" And, you know, just this communication style, so to say, creates a lot of impatience between both the parties, and that leads to mistrust. Miscommunication takes place. Orders don't come on time. There's a lot of problem and havoc. This also leads to a lot of mental stress. That's why we created this platform, so to say. And how it really works is like, it's like any form of connecting platform. We have various categories, as well, through which people can perhaps list their business on the platform in terms of that particular category, whether it's in sourcing, whether it's in fundraising, finance, or even marketing per se. And we just kind of connect them just like how you would connect people over LinkedIn, like, through an intro. But we would be the ones who would be part of that whole connection scenario so that everybody knows that there is, like, this trusted platform being built between the two people and that they're not alone. There's somebody else who's also dejargonizing the communication flow. And through that, what really happens, Sami, is that, like, the ideas of collaborations really grew because we would also have events. We would also have, like, these very interesting micro podcasts just for the community. And we would just post all of that content that would, A, build a lot of positivity amongst people in that space. And, you know, it would just kind of lead to more productivity in terms of different collaborations. Like, for example, we just tied up somebody who was creating straws using, I think, coconut or something like that to a chain of vegan cafes. I think what really happened was that through this trusted platform, through a community, I think it really, really bolsters a lot of positive mindset. At the end of the day, like I said in the beginning, I really think that it's all about mindset, which really helps you take that action. And that, in a nutshell, is what Sustainr really does in terms of just connecting resources. And now because we work with corporates as well, if supposing there are companies who want to pursue, let's just say, corporate gifting or something like that, we kind of help and initiate that process as well. So, it just becomes, like, this interlinked network where you can really just harness as many collaborations as possible so that you can also grow your business. You have time for experimentation. You have the safe space as well. And I didn't get an opportunity to be a part of any such community. So, I was just like, why not try and see how I can create one? JARED: That's great. It sounds like education and trust, a huge part of this marketplace. How do you ensure you find trusted partners, and how do you convince the people on the other side of that marketplace to trust you or to trust your marketplace? ISHANI: So, I think in terms of building trust, it takes time. So, we're not a community, or we're not kind of, like, this platform; we're, like, telling everybody that, "Hey, you know, come on our platform. We'll ensure that your business will grow." I think, first of all, it's setting the right expectations in terms of what exactly you can really achieve out of this platform. B, I think what I really like to do is, like, a lot of phone calls, just talking to the founder in terms of how he started that particular idea of his. How did it really take place? Our onboarding process is not like you have to fill in this very big, huge form, which will make you extremely bored, and you're just like, "Oh my God, this is, like, such a heavy task." Like, no, it's okay. There are some people in our team who also kind of talk to the founders and figure out what their story is all about. How did they really start that particular business? And if supposing what they're really looking for is something that we can really curtail to. Because we don't want to be also, like, a community where there's no value that we can add, then what's the whole point? And I'm very hell-bent on setting those expectations so that when people actually join our platform, then, you know, it's not like, okay, like, this is going to be just spam coming on [laughs] your way in terms of all the other communities that we end up seeing. But it's so much more than that. I think it's kind of like when we establish that synergy that, all right, if this is what you're looking for, and these are the kind of people that we have, that's the only way that we kind of build that trust. And that trust-building, it takes time. It doesn't happen automatically; it takes a lot of time, and that's why we have a lot of events. We share a lot of bits of content around, let's say, the investing market in the space of sustainability and ESG. What exactly is happening out there? We even link with other communities to build more trust. So, supposing there's a better community than Sustainr, I'd be like, yeah, 100%, you should definitely look at those communities. Like, that tagline has always been collaboration over competition, and I think it's always worked in our favor. We would also end up collaborating with those communities around climate. In so many different aspects, that's helped us, and that's the way that you also kind of build trust, when you actually see those actionable steps being taken, and you see that taking place. But it's not something that I can, like, assure you, like, yeah, 100% the trust is built within that one day. It takes some time, but it happens over a period of time. JARED: I love what you just said there about almost the long-term strategy of, you know what? If there's a better community, we're going to point you in that direction. That, to me, builds so much trust because the short-term option is to say, "Oh, okay, I've seen this. It's probably better for them, but that means they're not on our platform. So, that's not better for me." That is a tremendous way to build trust in a sort of long-term user base. So, I really love that. SAMI: Yeah. I mean, we've only been, I don't know, we've been speaking for about half an hour, 40 minutes now, and I feel like I really trust you as well [laughter]. It's, like, rubbing off. This concept of, you know, demystification and simplifying things it shows this authenticity. And I think your personality comes across and the way that you run these businesses. And you're doing it in an incredibly genuine way. I think that really talks to people. I think people are looking, like, not for jargon. They really want authentic people they can relate to who are real human beings. And that's something which I think really comes across through speaking to you. Obviously, as a consultancy, myself and Jared we work within thoughtbot, and we work with people like yourself to really try and solve their problems and understand what their pain points are. And we can come up with solutions through design or development. What would you say is your biggest challenge? In either one of these businesses or as a whole, where's your biggest challenge at the moment? ISHANI: There are so many [laughs]. But I guess to start off with, kind of scaling it to a considerable level. But at the same time, you know, scaling requires investment, and scaling also requires some amount of time in terms of figuring out how exactly you want to grow your team, which also takes time. So, sometimes I feel like I'm in this catch-22 situation where I'm just like, if I do need investment, right? For example, scale or if I need investment to grow my team even further to get more clients so that I can target more projects, let's say for Skillopp; again, finding the right people it takes time. And I think that's something that I really also kind of struggle with. It took me a lot of time to find the right people for the projects that we're doing right now. I think any tips would be great in terms of how exactly I can really do that so that even if supposing I want to raise investment and I know what I want to raise investment in, which is to grow the team, how exactly would I really approach that? Because I always feel like it's like this catch-22 situation. JARED: Well, it sounds like you already have some clients, which is an infinite step up on most businesses that are starting out and trying to get investment. Like, the fact that you can prove you have revenue coming in is amazing. I mean, the typical things that investors want, like the investor deck, right? They're going to want to see your vision for the business. They're going to want to see your financials and the forecast. And then, it's a matter of finding the right investors as well because I guess there are so many out there. But I think you probably want to find one that matches your values around sustainability and dejargonization as well. SAMI: Yeah, that's a great answer, Jared, actually. And, I think, just to add on top of that, this is where sometimes using a consultancy actually really helps. We see this a lot within thoughtbot, where someone is looking to get investment and wants to scale their team. But when you do that in-house, that comes with a lot of overheads. So, for example, you might need an extra person, your HR team, to handle new people, you know, being directly employed. Going to a consultancy and getting a third-party delivery partner allows you to kind of scale your team quickly, but also, descale that team quickly as well, so that it gives you that flexibility whilst you're in that more turbulent zone of, "Oh, I'm trying to scale, and I'm trying to get investment. And I'm not sure where my budgets are." Until you, you know, complete that scaling that you want to do, you get to a place where you're more stable. And then, actually, what thoughtbot does is helps people to then hire their own in-person team. But yeah, something like a consultancy can give that flexibility. But the way you describe this catch-22 situation is so common because what do I do first? I've got all these levers I could pull. So, I could pull the investment lever, or I could pull the, you know, extra resources lever. And then, there's like, you know, extra revenue lever as well. So, it's a really difficult problem. But definitely, we found, as a consultancy, that having that flexibility using third-party partners can be something which helps. JARED: And I wanted to just ask, because I remember you were saying you're working with some developers, are they developers you've hired, or is that a third-party team you're working with? ISHANI: It's very similar to what you really mentioned. It's like a strategic partnership with a third-party team. But, again, I think finding the third-party team also, like, it takes a long time to find. But I think that I really liked the thought that you were really talking about as well earlier, where you were kind of mentioning that that whole catch-22 situation is super, super important to understand. And I feel that instead of kind of going on LinkedIn and, like, posting so many, like, you know, these job descriptions with the overhead costs...I started learning that once I made that mistake. I think I learned so much about that. And I think that what you said it's also, like, reflecting on the fact that, okay, you really can see this through the strategic partnerships. And I think I'd love to be somebody or, like, you know, aspire to be someone who can, like, master that whole art of finding the third-party consultancies like you were mentioning, especially what you're doing as well. So, I think it's great, and thank you so much for the feedback and as well as answering question. SAMI: It's been great to have you on. And doing a podcast like this it just gives us the opportunity to speak to people like yourself. If people want to reach out to you, do you have any specific place you'd like them to reach out? ISHANI: You can go on my LinkedIn, where you'll find a lot of stuff and links to what I do. SAMI: Cool. So, I highly recommend our listeners to take a look at Skillopp, and take a look at Sustainr, and get to know all the great work that Ishani is doing. For our listeners, we're going to bring you lots more content like this. This was the first one in the Giant Robots on Tour series. Your only challenge before the next one is to hit the subscribe button to make sure you get this content directly as soon as it comes out because we've got some incredible guests lined up for you. You can find notes and a complete transcript for this episode at giantrobots.fm. If you have questions or comments, you can email us at hosts@giantrobots.fm. This podcast is brought to you by thoughtbot and produced and edited by Mandy Moore. Thanks for listening. See ya. Okay, before we sign off, a quick request. If you're enjoying Giant Robots on Tour, please drop us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Your reviews help us grow and reach more listeners, and we'd love to hear what you think. Thanks for being part of our journey, and stay tuned for more episodes. AD: Did you know thoughtbot has a referral program? If you introduce us to someone looking for a design or development partner, we will compensate you if they decide to work with us. More info on our website at: tbot.io/referral. Or you can email us at: referrals@thoughtbot.com with any questions.
Host Will Larry announces an exciting new Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots podcast limited series focusing on Europe, West Asia, and Africa and introduces new co-hosts Sami Birnbaum, Svenja Schäfer, Rémy Hannequin, and Jared Turner! Sami sets a fun challenge for the team to devise a name for the new series by the end of the podcast. The co-hosts engage in an icebreaker game where Sami randomly generates questions for each to answer. The team members talk about their paths into the tech industry. Jared, Rémy, and Will share stories of discovering their passion for tech, overcoming initial struggles, and finding their niche within the field. They discuss the importance of patience, problem-solving, and continuous learning in their careers. Sami emphasizes the value of realistic expectations and the ability to spend time with complex problems to find solutions. As the first show progresses, the co-hosts have an amazing time brainstorming potential names for the new series, and ultimately, the team decides on "Giant Robots On Tour" to capture the spirit of exploration and collaboration across different regions. We're excited to keep bringing you this new limited EWAA series! Please subscribe and follow along with us! Follow Sami Birnbaum on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/samibirnbaum/). Visit his website: samibirnbaum.com (https://samibirnbaum.com/). Follow Svenja Schäfer on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/svenjaschaefer/). Visit her website: svenjaschaefer.com (http://svenjaschaefer.com/) Follow Rémy Hannequin on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/rhannequin/). Visit his website rhannequ.in (http://rhannequ.in/) Follow Jared Turner on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaredlt/). Follow thoughtbot on X (https://twitter.com/thoughtbot) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/150727/). Transcript: WILL: This is the Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots podcast, where we explore the design, development, and business of great products. I'm your host, Will Larry. And today, we're announcing a new limited series of the podcast focused on the region of Europe, West Asia, and Africa. Please welcome our new co-hosts. Let's start with Sami. Can you introduce yourself? SAMI: I'm Sami. I'm a developer at thoughtbot based in the UK, in London specifically. And I'm really looking forward to this new Europe, West Asia, and Africa podcast, although we are going to need to come up with a name. We haven't got one yet because we're busy people, and we're consultants the rest of the time. But the plan is to get one. I don't think there's any quicker way to do it than just for ourselves to come up with one. And so, I think we should do a bit of a challenge here. I think we could say that by the end of this podcast, we'll have a name. I don't know what that's going to be. I don't know what that's going to look like. But we'll go around at the end of the podcast, and we'll see if one of us during this podcast can pick a name for this new series. I'm going to pass on to Svenja. Hey, Svenja. SVENJA: Hi, Sami. Thank you so much. My name is Svenja. I'm a developer and development team lead at thoughtbot. I live in Spain, more precisely in Almería. It's part of Andalusia. It's all the way in the South of Spain. I'm very excited to be in this podcast. And about the name, I'm also very excited about that. No clue yet. That's it for now from my side. Rémy, do you want to go next? RÉMY: Thank you, Svenja. I'm Rémy. I'm a software developer at thoughtbot. I joined a little bit more than one year ago. And I'm working from Paris, France. And I'm very excited to join this series. Jared, do you want to go next? JARED: Yeah. Thanks, Rémy. Hi, my name's Jared. I'm a product manager at thoughtbot. I am originally from Australia, but I live in London. And you're currently hearing me from Scotland. I'm very excited to hear what we're going to discuss over the course of this limited series and to hear what name Sami is about to come up with on this very podcast. Sami, back to you. SAMI: Yeah. Thanks, Jared. It's great to be doing this with all of you. And formal intros are great, right? So, now everyone kind of knows our position at thoughtbot and where we live. But I was thinking possibly to spice some things up...I've never done a game like this before, so I have no idea where this is going to go. It's kind of an icebreaker game where I use a random icebreaker generator online. They're not my questions. They're generated by someone else, which makes it even more risky. I'll kind of go to each of you individually with an icebreaker question that I've generated, and you're going to have to answer the question. You have no idea what's coming. I have no idea what's coming. But it's a great way of other people getting to know kind of more about us in a more informal way, in a way which we might not think about sharing things. I will do you a favor, though; I'll give everyone two skips, okay? So, I'll hit you with a question, and then, if you don't like the question, you can skip the question. But you've only got two skips, so I would say use them wisely. Because if you skip and you get a worse question, you're not going back to the previous one. Oh, okay, this is interesting. I'm going to start the way we intro'd, just to make it fair. Svenja. SVENJA: I'm scared. I'm scared [laughs]. SAMI: You should be scared. The best thing about this game is the one who's hosting doesn't get asked the questions. So, Svenja, this is your question. What is a lesson you feel you learned too late in life? SVENJA: Online banking [laughs]. I don't use online banking for that long. I don't know. I was the last person, I think, who always ran around with cash because I also didn't use credit cards also, so maybe trust in online banking. I'm not sure [laughs] that's a lesson. Sometimes, I probably shouldn't trust in it, but yeah, it would have made my life a little bit easier. Does that count? SAMI: It definitely counts. I mean, what could be more valuable information to know about Svenja? SVENJA: [laughs] SAMI: That she doesn't like online banking. And that's exactly the type of valuable content you will get from the Europe, West Asia, and Africa podcast series, which I hope, in the background, we are all thinking of a name because we cannot just say Europe, West Asia, and Africa series the whole time. WILL: I have a question, a follow-up. So, how did you do banking? Did you go in every single time, deposit, and withdraw inside the bank? SVENJA: Yes, actually, well, I did. It was good and kind of not so good because I always needed to go back home because I had one office I was kind of allowed to go to because all the others they didn't know me. And so, I went there; then I did my transfer there. I like to speak to real people [laughs], which is interesting because I always worked remotely, at least the last ten years, I think. But real-life interaction is kind of important to me. WILL: Yeah, that's neat to know. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. SAMI: That's cool. Okay, Rémy, I have not hit the generator button yet, so I don't know what's coming. Let's hit it now. Okay, this is interesting. What's something you do to relieve anger or stress? RÉMY: I have a lot of different activities. I kind of find it hard not to do anything. I don't know if it's a quality or not, but I know I'm always busy. So, if I'm stressed, I just go to the next occupation, you know. So, I like to do bread at home. I like sourdough bread. It smells amazing. It's not that easy, but you're working with living organisms. It's kind of nice. I read a lot of astronomy magazines because I'm deeply in love with astronomy. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but I love to play with my daughter. When you're stressed, sometimes it increases the stress depending, but it's always quite fun. SAMI: That's great. Playing with the kids definitely resonates with me. I've got four of my own, so they keep me busy. Is the sourdough bread is that the one where you have that...I'm going to show how naive I am—my lack of knowledge. You have, like, that starter thing that kind of lives with you. RÉMY: Yeah, exactly, the sourdough starter. That's actually the most fun part for me so far because you have to start from scratch. I mean, you can start with another starter. But it's quite interesting to just start with water and flour, and then you create something living, and it's a mutual benefit. You feed it, and then it feeds you a little bit later when you bake it in 200 degrees in your oven. It's interesting. WILL: You said it's a living organism. So, you said that you started with water and flour. So, what introduces the living organism into the sourdough bread? RÉMY: I lack a bit of the English vocabulary for that. I think it's called yeast. The living yeast on the flour, especially if it's organic, it's just out there, you know, even in the air. And when you just feed it with warm water and, like, a cozy environment, it starts eating the flour, and it develops, and it changes some of the texture and the taste into a lot of things. And then, it's quite powerful for making the bread rise and making a very nice taste and the crust and everything. But I think if I'm correct, Svenja might know a lot more about [inaudible 07:51] bread than me. SVENJA: I don't. I think the reason you said is because I'm German [laughs]. We love bread, and I absolutely love bread, but I don't have the patience to feed something. I don't have kids. I do have dogs. I do feed them, but they also get sometimes a bit of bread. I was never able to do my own sour bread, unfortunately, because I really love it. And I don't get it around here, which is really sad. So, I will look into that. SAMI: That's cool. That brings us to Jared. Jared has been waiting patiently for his question. JARED: Hit me with it, Sami. SAMI: Let's do it. Oh, okay. If you could kick one person out of this podcast...no, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. That's not, I mean, no, that was just...that's my own. Okay, let me actually do one. What's one characteristic you admire in others, and why? JARED: Oh, interesting. I think I always appreciate when someone else takes the time to understand someone else's point of view. If that goes a bit meta, like, we live in our own heads so much that it's really nice when someone reflects on how someone else thinks or their point of view. So, that's my one characteristic. SAMI: That's really interesting. And how have you found, I guess, in the world of consultancy, and when you're working with products, how have you found that's kind of helped you when it comes to the product ownership side of things? JARED: Well, it's a constant reminder to do it myself; that's for one thing, especially dealing with a lot of different clients and a lot of different people. It's always really important to think about their perspective, their own customers' perspective. SAMI: That's cool. I'll hand back to Will, but, Will, I'm not just going to hand it back to you for free, right? You're also going to have to do an icebreaker. WILL: Let's do it. SAMI: Will, would you rather receive a shout-out from the CEO at a company all-hands meeting or a private word of thanks from them? WILL: Ooh, I'm usually a private person, so probably private. But I have learned in my leadership, and I've learned this, this is a lesson I've learned: it's like, praise publicly, but then, like, reprimand privately. And so, I think majority of the people like that. But I'm just a private individual person. So, I'm like, just tell me, and I'm okay with that. I don't need everyone else to tell me and to say, "Hey, Will, you did a good job." Because yeah, it just brings pressure and all of that to me. So, I'm more of a private individual. Because also, I can ask more questions then. I can get more detail around like, "Yo, what did you like? Why are you saying a thank you and a shout-out?" So, that's where I'm at. SAMI: Okay, I'll hand back to Svenja. SVENJA: Yeah, I think we should give it back to you as well. So, because I am able to open a website, so that's another lesson I learned: how to type it in. SAMI: [chuckles] SVENJA: And I do find a question for you. Since nobody skipped, we will remove that option for you, Sami. So, you only get one question and that is, what is one thing we would never guess about you? SAMI: Oh, I love that. Should I say how much I hate podcasting? SVENJA: [laughs] SAMI: No, I'm kidding. I haven't done it enough yet to know if I hate it. Ooh, one thing. That kind of means I've got to reveal something, right? Because you would never guess this thing, and you would never know this thing. So, I am 32 years old, and my intention was never to be a developer, ever. So, I actually wanted to be a psychotherapist, a cognitive behavioral therapist, to be precise. And I started on a master's course. I did it for six weeks, and then I realized I couldn't handle it. I had placements in a hospital, and the cases that we were dealing with it was too much for me. It was too overwhelming, and I didn't have the skills to kind of handle that as well as my own personal world. So, at the age of about...I've got to remember what age it was. I think it was about 25 years old, 24, 25 years old. I already had one kid, and I was married with one child. And what am I going to do? My whole plan to be a psychotherapist that I'd done my undergraduate degree to go towards, and now I was on this master's just kind of fell apart. So, it's like, what's the easiest thing I can do? And that was to learn to code, right [chuckles]? Well, I'd always been good at computers. I'd always been fixing things. I was always the one at home who'd been asked, you know, "There's a problem with this computer." Normally, it was the printer, and I hate printers, but that's for a totally other episode. I could do a whole episode on printers. My one next to me is currently plugged in. I don't use Wi-Fi—Bluetooth with it because it's just not worth it. But either way, so I wrote my first line of code when I was 25. That was the first time I ever saw code, wrote HTML, and knew what it was. So, I never wanted to be a developer. Here I am all those years later, but it was never a plan, and I've found myself here. But I'm quite happy for it. SVENJA: That is so interesting and definitely something I wouldn't have guessed. SAMI: Yeah, it's been one hell of a journey, shall we say, but an exciting one. SVENJA: I would be super interested how the others of you stepped into the world of tech, so to say. JARED: Similar sort of thing to Sami in that I've always been interested, always been the sort of more technical, geekier person of the school and the social groups. And then, at uni, I actually took some computer science classes, and then quickly felt very confused and ended up doing a bachelor of commerce in marketing and management instead, which was a lot more straightforward basic business degree, sort of tick some things off. But still, like, throughout all that time, always just loved tech, loved reading about it, loved dabbling. And I landed a job at a previous company that I just got a lot of freedom to help out where I needed, problem-solve, do lots of different things. It was quite a small business. I was able to level up a whole bunch of different skills, like some technical and some sort of more managerial as well. That's sort of how I got a lot of my knowledge and then moved on from there. How about you, Rémy? RÉMY: I started in tech right away after high school. So, I had studied...I think we still call it multimedia. It was communication, coding, design, sound, video. I learned how to make step motions, you know, a lot of different things. It was kind of doing everything and trying to find the one thing that you actually like, and I found mine, which was actually coding. I think I found what I liked when I was in school. I remember struggling on math homework. I don't have a very high background in math, but I used to enjoy it. I remember struggling on some homework, and the sensation when you finally find the answer, and you finally resolve the problem it was amazing. And I felt that again in coding. Like, you have a bug, or you have a feature, and you can't make it. And you try again, and you find some clues, but it doesn't work. And at some point, it works, and you finally made it. And it's an amazing sensation. I had it again, like yesterday. It's quite common. I love that so much. So, I think that's how I decided, okay, that's what I want to do every day. SVENJA: Thank you so much, Rémy and Jared. What about you, Will? WILL: Yeah, I think I've told this story before on the podcast, but I always love telling it again. I actually lost my job, and I was really struggling. And if you know me, fashion is not my thing at all, and I was working at this fashion store. It was this clothing store. I hated it. I hated it. Like, there's no shortage on that. I hated it [laughs]. I was working there, and then I also started working at this insurance place. We sold travelers insurance. So, it was very interesting to see how that works. And yeah, I'm not going to say too much about it, but yes, how that works [laughs]. But at that company, the one good thing about it was they were like, as long as you get your work done, you could do whatever you want. And so, one day, I was at home, and my partner was like, "You're struggling. You're just trying to figure out what you're trying to do, and you're struggling." So, she kind of walked me through, like, "What do you want to do?" And I was...when Sami mentioned the printer, I laughed because I was that person also. And printers are tricky because you never know what the real issue is. You just got to tinker with it and hope it works. And yes, you never get the same answer twice, I feel sometimes [laughs]. SAMI: I feel like all our listeners who are kind of really good at fixing printers are thinking like, oh my gosh, I'm going to work at thoughtbot now. I'm going to be an amazing developer one day. WILL: You could. Why not [laughs]? And it's interesting you say that because, like, I was 29 or 30 whenever I started in the field. So, I was a little bit late, I feel sometimes, to get into development. But my wife, she asked me, "You're struggling. You need to do something because this is not going to work. We got to change it up." And I was like, well, I grew up in a small town in Louisiana, in the south of United States, and we didn't have anything tech there. It was just a rural place. And so I never had the opportunity to learn anything about computers. I guess the printer and stuff just came naturally to me, and this was before YouTube and all of that. So, she challenged me. She said, "Go and learn it. Go figure it out. Go learn it." I did. And I forgot who mentioned; somebody mentioned something about being easy getting into development. It was not for me. I remember so many times at the coffee shop just, like, I don't know what I am doing. And if you know anything about me, I sometimes don't have the patience to slow down. And so, I came in, and I wanted to be a senior developer and produce like a senior developer. And I was sadly mistaken that that's not how it work. But five years now, I am a senior developer, so I've enjoyed it. I would not change it for anything, and I love it. So, it's been a good change for me, so I love tech. SAMI: I think it's so helpful to kind of hear realistic expectations about how long it does take. It really is a skill. Some people often ask me, "What is one characteristic that kind of indicates success in the field?" And there isn't just one. But I definitely think that the ability to sit and spend time is so helpful. Because if you can spend time with something and just sit there and, like, be patient, like you were saying, often, you will get to a solution, and it will happen. But it's about almost slowing yourself down and slowing your mind and your brain down. And we kind of call it in industry, you know, the concept of having a rubber duck, which is also a form of I'm stuck on something. I just need to speak this out, not necessarily with someone who can respond, but in a way that allows me to verbalize slowly what's going on. And you'll be surprised how often you reach a solution. So, that's really interesting. So, yeah, we've got this great series coming. We have some great guests lined up. The advantage of doing this series over in Europe, West Asia, and Africa is we're going to get access to some guests within our time zones, within our region that this podcast has not been able to get access to before. And so, we are really excited about the people that we're going to bring on, and you're going to get to hear some of the most incredible podcasts that you've heard. But we don't have a name. We still don't have a name. And I kind of set the challenge at the beginning of this podcast of, well, let's just come up with one. So, who wants to give a shout-out and think about, you know, what this name is going to be? Just to clarify, it's still going to be called the Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots podcast, but where you see that kind of title of the individual episode, it will probably have a prefix of kind of the series name just so you know it's from us. Victoria, I feel like you're hiding away somewhere in the background, and I feel like you've got some suggestions up your sleeve. VICTORIA: Yeah, so I love the name of the podcast. I like when I network, and I usually say that, "I'm, like, the co-host of the Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots." So, I want to keep the name to be fun. And maybe it's giant robots in a different action like Giant Robots High-Fiving Other Giant Robots or Giant Robots Without Borders, or something like that. That's what I'm thinking. SVENJA: I really like the Giant Robots Without Borders. I really like it. JARED: Sami, you had a good one that I quite liked as well in the spirit of what we've been talking about: Giant Robots On Tour. SAMI: Oh yeah, Giant Robots On Tour. That makes it sound, to me, like we're just going out and having a really fun time, not like we might not be doing sensible things, but we're going on tour. But that kind of also indicates, you know, what happens on tour stays on tour. And we probably need to be conscious that other people will listen to this. So, we have to maybe, like, tone it down if we are the giant robots who are on tour. But yeah, I like Giant Robots On Tour. This is cool. We're actually going to name our series. VICTORIA: I do think it would be funny if it was, like, less...I don't want to say less violent, like, Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots, like, Giant Robots Knitting Socks or something, like [laughs], fun, nice, but maybe not as exciting. SVENJA: Baking Bread Together [laughs]. VICTORIA: Giant Robots Baking Bread actually sounds pretty cool. WILL: Giant Robots On Tour because it reminded me since we're talking about the different region, the great English rock band, the Beatles. That's what it reminded me of. So, shout out to the UK. SAMI: Yeah. I actually often drive past...do you know where the Abbey Road studios were? And there's that famous picture of the Beatles on the album cover of where...I don't know which album it is. They're crossing that zebra crossing across the road. There's that picture of all of them. And what you get now is you get loads of tourists. And so, you're trying to drive your car, and they're just hanging out on the zebra crossing, trying to replicate that picture that they had on the album cover. If you're not familiar with what I'm talking about, just Google "Beatles zebra crossing album cover," and you'll get an idea of kind of what I have to face when I'm just trying to drive from A to B sometimes. VICTORIA: Well, that's also part of, you know, bringing up why we were wanting to have some hosts in the Europe, West Asia, and Africa region, is there's a lot of context and things like calling it a zebra crossing. We call it a crosswalk. And just having more context and connection with our guests who are from that area would be really great. I don't know if you all saw the pictures, but for the last RubyConf that was in San Diego, I actually made robot costumes out of cardboard boxes. And there's absolutely a picture of me in a giant robot costume sitting on a lounge chair outside in the sun. So, it might be perfect for your series. SAMI: I think that's a great way to name things, right? Like, if you have a picture that works for a thing, then you have to kind of go with a name like that. Do we vote? How do we come up with it? Is this a democracy? Probably not. JARED: Well, I think one thing we haven't clarified is that Sami, you're our primary co-host for the European adventure. So, maybe you should get the decider. Should you dictate to us? SAMI: I feel like it's almost worth it kind of being the primary host just so I get to pick the name. So yeah, sure, I'm going to decide, so it's Sami's Giant Robots is going to be the name of this series. No, I'm kidding. Let's go with...okay, I'm stuck between without borders and on tour. I'm really stuck between those two. So, no one else can see this. I'm going to say, like, hands up if you want without borders. Hands up if you want on tour. Okay. Okay. Okay. We're going to be calling our new series, with the most exciting guests that you've ever seen, Giant Robots On Tour. You've heard it here first. It's been announced. WILL: Thank you for joining us. I look forward to the Giant Robots On Tour. I am excited about it. I love that we have the diversity at thoughtbot to be able to have this limited series. So, I'm excited to see what comes out of it. So, I can't wait to check it out. I'll be one of the first listeners on every podcast that comes out. You can subscribe to the show and find notes along with a complete transcript for this episode at giantrobots.fm. If you have questions or comments, email us at hosts@giantrobots.fm. You can find me on Twitter @will23larry. This podcast is brought to you by thoughtbot and produced and edited by Mandy Moore. Thanks for listening. See you next time. AD: Did you know thoughtbot has a referral program? If you introduce us to someone looking for a design or development partner, we will compensate you if they decide to work with us. More info on our website at: tbot.io/referral. Or you can email us at: referrals@thoughtbot.com with any questions.
Daniel Hooper lists out all the good ideas in computer science, Jeff Geerling declares 2024 the year corporate open source dies, Jared Turner says all kinds of works-in-progress are waste, Daroc Alden covers the leadership crisis in the Nix community & John Hawthorn explains why Ruby may be faster than you think.
Jared Turner interviews Matt William Knowles, a former college football player, who turned an unfortunate event into a remarkable life-changing adventure in China. After a career-ending injury left him uncertain about his future, Matt took a volunteer teaching position in one of China's most impoverished regions, Guizhou Province. Here, Matt found himself in a remote town far removed from the comforts and familiarity of his South Carolina home. Without any knowledge of Chinese, he faced the challenge of communicating with his students and the local community, sparking his dedication to mastering Chinese. Matt's story is not just about language learning; it's a tale of personal resilience and transformation. He shares how immersing himself in the culture and the language reshaped his identity and life's direction, leading him from the classroom to unexpected fame on Chinese television and stages. This inspiring story shows that with enough determination, you can turn even the most daunting setbacks into new pathways of success and fulfillment. Tune in to hear how Matt's unique experiences in China taught him not just a new language but opened doors to a world of new opportunities and self-discovery. Links from the episode: Matt William Knowles | Personal website Mandarin Companion graded readers Send us a message | Mandarin Companion feedback form
Daniel Hooper lists out all the good ideas in computer science, Jeff Geerling declares 2024 the year corporate open source dies, Jared Turner says all kinds of works-in-progress are waste, Daroc Alden covers the leadership crisis in the Nix community & John Hawthorn explains why Ruby may be faster than you think.
Daniel Hooper lists out all the good ideas in computer science, Jeff Geerling declares 2024 the year corporate open source dies, Jared Turner says all kinds of works-in-progress are waste, Daroc Alden covers the leadership crisis in the Nix community & John Hawthorn explains why Ruby may be faster than you think.
Dive into the fascinating world of East Asian languages with hosts Jared Turner and John Pasden. Whether you're navigating the tonal waves of Chinese or untangling the polite intricacies of Japanese, this episode offers a deep dive into the nuances, challenges, and delights of learning these two rich languages. They also discuss invaluable resources for learners and the global implications of the Chinese diaspora versus Japanese homogeneity. If you've ever pondered the complexities of learning Japanese or Chinese or are simply fascinated by the cultures behind these languages, this episode is a must-listen. Links from the episode: Language Power Struggles | Sinosplice.com Mandarin Companion graded readers Send us a message | Mandarin Companion feedback form
There is no shortage of advice on how to learn Chinese, but in this episode, hosts John and Jared not only talk about 10 common bad tips for learning Chinese, but also reframe them so you know what to do instead. Guest interview is with Dave Landis, a language enthusiast who shares his journey of learning Chinese, the role it played in his relationship with his Taiwanese wife, and how it benefits his teaching career. Links from the episode:Chinese Grammar WikiSherlock Holmes and a Scandal in Shanghai | Level 2 graded readerCathoven Text Analyzer Dave Landis BlogTimestamps Don't worry about tones [00:01:55]The misconception that tones are not important in speaking Chinese and that native speakers don't use tones naturally.Characters are too hard, just focus on speaking [00:04:21]The belief that learning characters is unnecessary and that focusing on speaking is enough to learn Chinese.Chinese has no grammar, don't worry about it [00:06:14]The misconception that Chinese language has no grammar and that learners don't need to study it.The capability of kids books [00:09:41]Kids books have a higher reading level than learners, and they contain special use vocabulary that may not be useful for learners.Reading novels as a beginner [00:11:09]Reading novels as a beginner is not an effective way to learn Chinese, as it is slow and challenging.Chinese poetry and idioms [00:13:17]Chinese poetry and idioms are not essential for beginners and should be appreciated at higher levels of language proficiency.All you need is Immersion [00:20:05]Discussion on the idea of immersing oneself in the language to learn it naturally and effortlessly.You need A well-rounded approach to learning Chinese [00:24:01]Emphasis on the importance of using multiple resources and methods to learn Chinese effectively.The lack of Chinese news sites for kids [00:30:21]Discussion about the limited availability of news sites in Chinese specifically designed for kids.Recommendation of a text analysis tool for Chinese [00:31:48]Introduction and recommendation of an online tool called "Cathoven" for teachers to analyze and level Chinese texts.Dave Landis' language learning journey [00:33:37]Interview with Dave Landis, a middle school teacher, about his language learning experiences, including his interest in German and Vietnamese before eventually learning Mandarin.Meeting and Marrying his Wife [00:41:36]Dave discusses how he met his wife and how learning Chinese helped him develop their relationship.Communicating with Bilingual Spouses [00:42:50]Dave talks about how communication with his wife is mostly in English, but sometimes they switch to Chinese, especially when speaking to their children.Studying Mandarin in China [00:45:14]Dave shares his experience of studying Mandarin in China, including his decision to attend the Chinese Language Institute in Guilin and his interactions with locals.Developing Listening Comprehension [00:52:14]Dave Landis discusses the importance of speaking to someone younger than him to improve his listening comprehension while learning Mandarin.Progress and Study Methods [00:52:48]Dave Landis talks about the progress he made during his time in China, including studying HSK 4, reading articles about China, and telling dad jokes in Chinese.Language Endurance and Filling in Gaps [00:56:38]Dave Landis and Jared Turner discuss the importance of language endurance and how participating in a language program helped fill in gaps in listening and speaking skills.The importance of reading graded books and getting a tutor [01:03:28]Dave recommends reading Mandarin Companion and Chinese Breeze books and getting a one-on-one tutor for rapid progress.The benefits of studying Mandarin overseas [01:04:12]Dave shares the example of a classmate who made rapid progress by studying Mandarin overseas and encourages others to do the same.Dave Landis' blog and his experience at CLI [01:04:38]Dave Landis talks about his blog, where he discusses the books he has read and his experience at CLI. A link to his blog will be provided in the show notes.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Jared Turner and John Pasden discuss the impact of extensive reading on language learning by sharing stories from research that illustrate the impact it has on learning gains. You'll hear stories from Fiji to Singapore, impressive results from students in Japan, and personal stories from their own experience. Guest interview is with Sarah Reinstein, a game developer for “League of Legends”, for whom Chinese opened doors including meeting her favorite Taiwanese singer, Jay Chou. Links from the episode:The Power of Extensive Reading | paper by Dr. Willy RenandyaBaijiu meets coffee | The China ProjectIntro to Historical Chinese Geography | YouTube Mandarin Companion Graded ReadersTimestampsThe effectiveness of extensive reading in language learning [00:02:26]The hosts discuss the research papers and studies that show the effectiveness of extensive reading in different settings and its impact on language learning gains.The story of Willie Renandya [00:07:41]Willie Renandya, the author of the paper, shares his personal story of using extensive reading to learn English and how it drastically improved his proficiency.The impact of extensive reading on language acquisition [00:10:35]Discussion on the differences between extensive reading in English and Chinese, and the importance of starting with simpler materials.The benefits of extensive reading on academic performance [00:13:57]Exploration of a research project in Fiji that showed how extensive reading improved reading comprehension, vocabulary, grammar, and writing skills, and even had positive effects on math and other subjects.The effectiveness of extensive reading for remedial students [00:17:19]Overview of a study with 7th grade remedial students that demonstrated the significant reading gains achieved through extensive reading, even with limited quality and quantity of reading materials.The students' impressive English scores [00:20:38]Discussion about high English test scores among Japanese students, even the lowest scoring students are in the top 25%.Success stories of extensive reading [00:21:40]Examples of students who improved their English proficiency through extensive reading, reading millions of words within a year or two.Grant Brown's success with extensive reading in the classroom [00:24:37]Grant Brown, a high school teacher, improved his Chinese class pass rate from 50% to 100% by incorporating extensive reading into the curriculum.The Maotai Coffee [00:30:41]Discussion about a friend's experiment mixing baijiu and hangzhou liquor with different drinks and the introduction of Maotai coffee.Intro to Historical Chinese Geography [00:31:48]Recommendation of a YouTube video that provides insights into ancient and modern Chinese history through the lens of geography.Learning Chinese as a Life Experience [00:33:17]Guest Sarah Reinstein shares her journey of learning Mandarin, how it opened up unique opportunities, and her memorable experiences speaking Mandarin with a famous Taiwanese singer-songwriter.Jay Chou Encounter [00:41:17]Sarah talks about meeting Jay Chou on her college campus and speaking Mandarin with him and his crew.Singing for Jay Chou [00:42:16]Sarah shares her experience of telling Jay Chou her favorite song of his in Mandarin and being asked to sing it in front of him.Embarrassing Mandarin Moments [00:45:05]Sarah recounts funny and embarrassing moments speaking Mandarin, including getting trolled by a restaurant owner and mistaken as a couple with her friend Nick.Connecting with Mandarin-speaking couple [00:50:40]Sarah recounts an experience of helping a Mandarin-speaking couple in LA with directions.Using Mandarin in everyday situations [00:51:33]Sarah talks about using Mandarin in practical scenarios like using Mandarin GPS or speaking with coworkers.The value of reading in Mandarin [00:57:59]Sarah emphasizes the importance of reading in Mandarin for language learning and comprehension.The importance of not treating learning Chinese as impossible [01:01:25]Discussion about how learning Chinese, like any language, has its challenges but should not be treated as impossible.Advice for starting to learn Chinese [01:01:54]Sarah gives two pieces of advice for beginners: finding a supportive teacher and exploring different tools and methods for learning Mandarin.Overcoming fear and shame when speaking Mandarin [01:03:08]Sarah emphasizes the need to be shameless and not worry about making mistakes or sounding silly when speaking Mandarin, as native speakers are usually forgiving.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
This episode is a conversation with Yorktown High School Head Cross Country and Track & Field Coach, Jared Turner. Support the Podcast
What if your perfectionism is holding you back from progressing in Chinese? In this episode, hosts Jared Turner and John Pasden delve into the impact of perfectionism on language learning. From listening and speaking to reading and writing, they explore how perfectionism can both hinder and help your progress.Special guest interview is with Rob Neal, a passionate Chinese language teacher from Manchester, England, who shares his experiences and insights into teaching Chinese culture and language.Don't forget to subscribe and share the podcast!Links from the episode:The physics of languages | Physics WorldMandarin Companion Newsletter | Sign up at the bottom of the pageShirts for Chinese Learners | Mandarin Companion MerchTimestamps Perfectionism and its effects [00:00:44]Discussion on the concept of perfectionism and its impact on language learning.Perfectionism as a barrier to progress [00:01:21]Exploration of how perfectionism can hinder language learning and the fear of failure associated with it.Adjusting standards and realistic expectations [00:03:44]The importance of adjusting perfectionist tendencies and setting realistic standards to facilitate language learning progress.Reading Pain and Effective Language Learning [00:09:35]The hosts discuss the negative impact of reading pain on motivation and the effectiveness of learning a language through grinding through difficult books.Finding the Right Level for Reading [00:10:26]The hosts emphasize the importance of finding the right level for reading and how it can greatly benefit language learning progress.Handwriting vs. Typing in Chinese [00:11:34]The hosts discuss the separate skills of handwriting and typing in Chinese, and how being a perfectionist in handwriting can impede learning progress.The importance of tones in pronunciation [00:19:41]Discussion on how tones are an aspect of pronunciation and become more important as language proficiency increases.The role of grammar in language learning [00:22:29]Exploration of the significance of grammar in Chinese language learning and the advice to not be overly perfectionist about it.Embracing imperfections in language learning [00:25:36]Discussion on the benefits of embracing imperfections in language learning and how it can lead to growth and progress.The Physics of Languages [00:30:37]Discussion on applying physics models to analyze language spread and common features between languages.Zipf's Law of Brevity [00:32:36]Explanation of a statistical law that states more frequently used words tend to be shorter, supported by a study of over a thousand languages.Rob's Chinese Journey [00:34:49]Interview with Rob Neale, a Mandarin Chinese teacher, about his experience learning Chinese and his parents' involvement with China in the 80s and 90s.Learning Chinese in China [00:40:24]The speaker discusses their decision to go to China to learn Chinese and their initial experiences in Beijing.Choosing China over Japan [00:41:11]The speaker explains why they chose to go to China instead of Japan and their excitement about the rapid changes happening in China.Immersion in Chinese Language [00:44:30]The speaker talks about their language learning process in China, including joining a language course and practicing Chinese with classmates and locals.The Transformational Experience [00:51:35]Rob shares his experiences of taking students to China and how it transformed their motivation and perception of learning Chinese.Working for the BBC during the Olympics [00:52:57]Rob talks about his job as a local fixer for the BBC during the Beijing Olympics and how it motivated his students to continue learning Chinese.The Future of Chinese Language Education [00:56:22]Rob discusses the current challenges in Chinese language education and the importance of understanding China in the 21st century.The PhD research on pronunciation [01:00:31]The speaker discusses their experience doing a PhD in second language acquisition, focusing on pronunciation, and how it gave them a new lease of life.The importance of reading for pleasure [01:02:36]The speaker shares their regret of not starting to read Mandarin Companion books earlier and how reading for pleasure can greatly improve language skills.The controversy around the importance of tones [01:05:12]The speaker talks about their controversial PhD thesis that tested the assumption that tones are not crucial for understanding spoken Mandarin, and discusses the findings of their research.The roommate's taxi story [01:11:48]An anecdote about the speaker's Italian roommate trying to call a taxi in China using the word "choo choo."Advice for learning Chinese [01:12:35]The guest, Robert Neil, gives advice on learning Chinese, including persevering, not being afraid of making mistakes, and immersing oneself in the language and culture.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
In June of 2023, Jared Turner delivered the keynote speech at the Swire Chinese language conference in Newcastle, England. This episode features his address discussing Chinese learner motivation, specifically how to help students find their own motivation as well as identifying what can squash it. After a Q&A session, there are six speed interviews with Chinese teachers from the UK sharing their stories of why they started to learn Chinese. *The Swire Chinese Language Conference [00:01:20]*John and Jared talk about the Swire Chinese Language Conference and its purpose in promoting Chinese language education in the UK.*Observing Chinese Classes in the UK [00:02:26]*Jared shares his experience of visiting classrooms in London and Oxford to observe Chinese language education the UK.*Keynote Address: Discovering motivation behind learning Chinese [00:04:25]*Jared discusses research conducted by Mandarin Companion, which identified six distinct groups of Chinese language learners based on their reasons for learning Chinese.*How to help students find their motivation [00:15:32]*Jared discusses practical ways to help obligated learners discover their own intrinsic motivation for learning Chinese. *Q&A: The importance of intrinsic motivation [00:21:45]*Interview with Jared: Jared discusses the challenges of helping students find their intrinsic motivation to learn Chinese and the fragility of motivation.*Q&A: What stops students from learning Chinese? [00:23:35]*Jared answers a question highlighting the difficulty and time it takes to feel a sense of accomplishment in learning Chinese and how it can affect motivation.*Q&A: Why are students from immigrant families who have learned English not motivated to learn Chinese? [00:25:34]*Jared answers question about why kids who have learned English as a second language may not be interested in learning another language like Chinese. *Q&A: What are some best practices from the USA? [00:27:19]*Jared explores the use of innovative teaching methods, such as comprehensible input, and the benefits of dual language immersion programs in the US education system.*Robert Neil: Swire Chinese program overview [00:29:33]*Robert is the coordinator for the Swire Chinese center in Manchester, England. He explains the Swire Group's involvement in Chinese language education in the UK. *Interview: Dean Robinson [00:32:40]*Dean shares his two-decade journey of learning Chinese, initially motivated by his fascination with Chinese culture and later by a professional goal. He emphasizes the significant role technology and a clear purpose can play in language learning.*Interview: Zainab Khalid [00:36:53]*Zainab, who helms a Mandarin teaching department, shares her spontaneous decision to study Mandarin at university despite initial intentions to pursue sciences. She stresses the rewarding nature of Mandarin learning, suggesting it becomes easier and more gratifying as proficiency increases.*Interview: Alex Tarbot [00:39:26]*Alex, who transitioned from Spanish to Chinese due to its potential opportunities, discusses his language learning journey and how the allure of understanding Chinese culture kept him motivated.*Interview: Jay Smith [00:42:03]*Jay, a former entrepreneur turned Mandarin teacher, shares his random decision to learn Chinese influenced by his sister's suggestion. His passion for languages and the ability they offer to connect with others, combined with his experiences in China, have cemented his path. *Interview: Torri Widowson [00:44:50]*Tori, a teacher from Whitburn School, speaks about her early experiences in learning Chinese, the cultural insights gained through language, and how technology has revolutionized language learning.*Interview: James Stagg [00:48:50]*James talks about his passion for teaching and ensuring that children and young adults have a positive and engaging experience learning Mandarin.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
In this episode, Jared Turner and John Pasden delve into the topic of higher order thinking skills in language learning, with a focus on learning Chinese. They explore Bloom's Taxonomy and how it can be applied to language learning, and the challenges and rewards of creating in language learning. They emphasize the importance of seeking out programs that encourage learners to analyze, evaluate, and create in the language. Guest interview is with John Gordon, who shares his personal experience of learning Chinese and hosting TV shows in China. If you're looking to go beyond memorization and develop higher order thinking skills in your language learning journey, this episode is a must-listen.Links from the episode:Great Expectations | 450 Character graded readerBlooms Taxonomy for language educationChina Doesn't Appreciate Potatoes | SinospliceIntroduction [00:00:03]Introduction to the podcast episode and the hosts.Levels of Bloom's Taxonomy [00:03:03]Explanation of the six levels of Bloom's Taxonomy and how they apply to language learning.Creating in Language Learning [00:08:47]Jared and John discuss the challenges and rewards of creating in language learning, such as writing essays, delivering presentations, participating in debates, and writing jokes.Applying Bloom's Taxonomy in Language Learning [00:11:21]Jared and John explain how Bloom's Taxonomy can be applied in language learning, and how it can help learners evaluate their efforts and understand what level they want to achieve in the language.Gamifying Language Learning with Video Games [00:15:55]Jared and John discuss the benefits of gamifying language learning with video games and recommend Mandarin Companion graded readers as easy-to-read Chinese novels for language learners.Interview with John Gordon [00:28:26]Jared interviews John Gordon, a foreigner with impressive Chinese language skills who has worked as a professional host on Chinese TV and now helps Chinese people learn English.Starting to Learn Chinese [00:29:46]John Gordon shares how he randomly decided to study abroad in China during his senior year of high school, and his initial preparation for learning Chinese before arriving in China.Impact of studying abroad [00:33:15]The impact of studying abroad in China, including the experience of learning about Chinese culture and language, and the relationships formed with host families.Teaching English in China [00:39:20]Discussion of how the guest ended up in China and his early experiences teaching English and leading study abroad programs.Starting a Test Preparation Company [00:43:18]The guest discusses starting a company in China focused on test preparation and how it grew to over 100 centers around the country.Participating in Chinese TV Shows [00:44:56]The guest talks about his experiences participating in Chinese TV shows, including a singing competition, and his experience hosting a Chinese learning TV show for CCTV4, which was broadcasted internationally and targeted at Chinese people abroad.Being a Foreigner on TV [00:49:18]John Gordon discusses his complicated relationship with being a foreigner on TV in China and how he sees it as an opportunity for cultural communication.Jumping into learning Chinese [00:52:33]The importance of immersing oneself in the language and spending time in China to learn Chinese effectively.Regrets and Opportunities [00:53:26]The benefits of taking a gap year to learn Chinese and the importance of keeping up with language learning.Conclusion and Credits [00:55:51]The hosts thank their guest and encourage listeners to share the podcast and leave a review.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
In this episode, Jared Turner and John Pasden discuss the affective filter hypothesis and its relevance to language learning. They explain the three key categories of the affective filter: motivation, self-confidence, and anxiety, and how teachers and learners can help lower the affective filter to improve language learning. Guest interview is with Elyse Ribbons, playwright, webmistress, radio host, Peking opera performer, entrepreneur, yoga teacher, actress in Chinese media, and runner-up for China's top chef. Links from the episode:This Modern Chinese Life (Intermediate) | Course from AllSet LearningElyse Ribbons | Wikipedia Red Star Over China | 1937 book by Edgar SnowIntroduction [00:00:01]Affective Filter Hypothesis [00:02:25]Jared and John discuss Stephen Krashen's theory of the affective filter hypothesis and how it relates to language learning, including the impact of motivation, self-confidence, and anxiety.Finding the Right Teacher [00:17:06]Discussion on how finding the right teacher can affect language learning, and how having a bad fit can cause anxiety.Alcohol and Language Learning [00:18:37]Discussion on how alcohol affects language learning, including its impact on self-confidence and anxiety.Effective Filter and Language Learning [00:21:35]Discussion on how the affective filter hypothesis affects language learning, and how children acquire language better due to having less of an affective filter.Rant on Tones [00:26:11]Jared Turner discusses a comedic social media video about tones and emphasizes the importance of tones in advanced language learning.China Love Affair [00:29:32]Elyse Ribbons shares how she accidentally fell in love with China and how a bowl of instant noodles led her to study abroad in Beijing.Alternative philosophies regarding language study [00:36:27]Elyse shares her alternative approach to language learning, which includes immersing oneself in TV shows and having language partners to practice with.Importance of learning characters [00:41:45]Elyse emphasizes the importance of learning characters in Chinese language learning, as they are essential for understanding references and cultural context in everyday conversations.Acting in China [00:47:26]Elyse Ribbons talks about how she got into acting in China and the roles she played, including her own play in English.Playing a Chinese character [00:51:01]Elyse Ribbons talks about her experience playing a Chinese character in a linguistic farcical play and how learning a language can develop another personality.Being a radio host in China [00:52:20]Elyse Ribbons shares her experience as a guest host and later the main foreign host of a program called "International Perspectives" in China.Advice for learning Chinese [00:59:45]Elyse Ribbons gives advice to someone who is learning Chinese right now, including finding a hobby that isn't language-based and immersing oneself in Chinese culture to learn the language.Riding a Giant Duck [01:01:04]Elyse Ribbons' humorous response to a hypothetical question about fighting 100 duck-sized horses or one horse-sized duck.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
In this initial episode we look at the the reasons for starting this podcast and the passion for Indiana high school distance running that exists between the two hosts, Rick Sluder and Jared Turner and the hope of expanding and spreading that passion. We also talk about the "must haves" in our training philosophy as well as preview the upcoming HSR State Indoor Finals.
Sometimes seemingly small changes in study efforts can result in big differences in learning gains. John and Jared are going to give you tips and insights into things you can do to get more out of the time you're studying Chinese, including flashcards, reading in Chinese, preparing for speaking situations, and learning grammar and vocab. Guest interview is with Marcus Murphy who after deciding to study Chinese in college, ended up spending years in China and today is a Chinese language instructor in Tennessee. Links from the episode:The Prince and the Pauper | Level 1 Chinese Graded ReaderSummer Chinese Language Camp | University of the SouthSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Do you keep learning new vocab but have trouble using it? Jared and John talk about the vocab dilemma in which many learners find themselves caught and discuss the balance between knowledge and proficiency. Guest interview is with Amy Celico, international political and economic consultant, former US senior trade representative, and a lifelong Chinese learner. Links from the episode:Jekyll and Hyde | Mandarin CompanionUsing ChatGPT to Learn Chinese | SinospliceSteve Kaufmann Interview | Podcast 98Amy Celico | Albright Stonebridge GroupSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
So you want to read Chinese literature? John and Jared talk about the unique aspects of Chinese literature that you should know before jumping in. Guest interview is with Christina Duffy, a PHD rowing champion from Ireland turned Chinese learner. Links from the episode:The 6 Best Apps for Reading Chinese | Mandarin Companion Interview with Murray James Morrison Sherlock Holmes and a Scandal in Shanghai | Level 2 graded reader向歌友们拜年 | 988 DJsSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
How did we get the set of Chinese words we have today? John and Jared talk about how the Chinese language has evolved, adapted, innovated, and borrowed to create the language it is today. Guest interview is with Krystal Wu, a heritage Cantonese speaker from the UK who, later in her life, decided to branch out and learn Mandarin Chinese. Links from the episode:Chinese Grammar Wiki | #1 Online grammar resourceHeavenly Path | Chinese language learning resourcesHeavenly Path Discord | Discord GroupSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
What do you like about learning Chinese? John and Jared talk about all of the reasons they love Chinese! Guest interview is with Jason Brooks, a former language teacher and founder of an AI startup.Links from the episode:Harkness AI | Conversational awareness toolJason Brooks | LinkedinJourney to the Center of the Earth | Level 2 Chinese graded readerSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Questions are a fundamental function of language. John and Jared talk about how to use asking and responding to questions to maximize your learning gain. Guest interview is with Jonathan Rechtman, a simultaneous interpreter, entrepreneur, and consultant. Links from the episode:Mandarin Companion Merch Black Friday sale | WebsiteSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
We all come into language learning with different expectations. John and Jared talk about common expectations many learners have versus the reality of the language. Guest interview is with Dan Stephenson, consultant, China watcher, and a guy with his fingers in many pies. Links from the episode:Sherlock Holmes and a Scandal in Shanghai | Mandarin Companion Level 2 graded readerMandarin Companion | Brand new websiteSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
After nearly 4 years since the first episode, Jared and John celebrate their 100th podcast episode with two special interviews with two special guest interviewers. Even John gets to do the intro this time! Links from the episode:Mandarin Companion | Chinese graded readersChinese learning memes on Instagram SinoSplice | John's Blog AllSet LearningSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Jared Turner is father, a son, a fighter, a true Son of Marshall and a true son of America. After a great high school career, Jared brought his talents and his intensity to Marshall University.When his football career was over, Jared followed in his father's footsteps into law enforcement. After the 9/11 attacks and the fight against terrorism, Jared felt a calling to use his talents to help protect our country, by contracting with our US Military to serve and protect.After a handful of years in Iraq and less than 20 days from returning home, Jared's life changed forever with the blast from an enemy IED. Injuries resulted in Jared's life changing for ever.He tells about what and how things happened and how his family and his Thundering Herd brothers and sisters help him battle through the on going challenges of life.
You're learning Chinese, but are you getting better? Chances are you're improving but it can be hard to notice the progress. John and Jared discuss 9 signs that your Chinese is getting better so you can start celebrating those wins! Interview is with Arthur Jones, documentary filmmaker and director of The Six, a new documentary about the six Chinese survivors of the Titanic. Links from the episode:Small Personal Victories in Language Acquisition | SinospliceThe Six 《六人》Documentary | Website | Facebook | Twitter | Weibo How Jane Austen's early Chinese translators were stumped by the oddities of 19th-century British cuisine | The ConversationThe Secret Garden | Mandarin Companion Level 1See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
There are a lot of opinions about how to learn Chinese with some of it being just plain bad! John and Jared share some of the worst advice they've come across, why it's bad, and what you can be doing instead to get your Chinese on track. Interview is with Steve Kaufmann, legendary polyglot and speaker of 20 languages, including Chinese!Links from the episode:#84 How to progress from textbooks to conversation#70 Reading the News: Do's and Dont's#87 The 6 Types of Chinese Learners#79 Why typing characters is better than handwriting#23 Pinyin Over Characters: the Crippling CrutchErhua | The Chinese Pronunciation WikiCountry of the Blind | Mandarin Companion Level 1See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Many people study for the HSK exam but will focusing your language learning on your interests and needs be better and faster? Well, yes…maybe! In this episode John and Jared discuss how to bring better focus to your studies so you can beat the pants off the HSK. Guest interview is with Ben Whatley, avid Chinese learner and co-founder of Memrise.Links from the episode:Hanyu Shuiping Kaoshi (HSK) | Wikipedia general infoHSK-Mod | Live, one-one-one online courses by AllSet LearningNo links for too much sugar in your Chinese food… no one needs thatSimply Chinese | Comprehensible input YouTube channelMemrise | Co-founded by guest Ben Whatley See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Does a musical background make you better at Chinese? Believe it or not, there is research on this very subject that John and I are going to delve into. Guest interview is with Murray James Morrison, jazz musician, composer, and professor at NYU Shanghai. Links from the episode:Research Paper | Identification of Mandarin tones by English-speaking musicians and nonmusiciansSherlock Holmes and a Scandal in Shanghai | New Level 2, 450 Words, Mandarin Companion Graded Reader Sinica Podcast hosted by Kaiser KuoThe China Project | Rebranded name for SupChinaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Anyone can learn a language, but in this episode, John and I are going to talk about five qualities of good language learners. Call them qualities, call them attitudes — these adjustments will help maximize your learning results.Guest interview is with Zachary Gidwitz, who despite having a Chinese teacher tell him to give up, later progressed to a level that opened up job opportunities with one of China's largest ecommerce giants. Links from the episode:YCLC #7 The Myth of Learning Chinese Like a ChildTolerance of Ambiguity and Use of Second Language StrategiesSherlock Holmes and a Scandal in Shanghai (Mandarin Companion's next book!)The Six | Documentary about 6 Chinese survivors of the TitanicSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
The Ultra-Traditional, the “Buddy”, the Know-it-All, and the “Too Nice” are all teacher types that John and Jared are going to break down and you should consider avoiding. That being said, they have some redeeming qualities too!Interview is with Brad Johnson whose interest and friendships were the driving force in improving his Chinese skills to the level where he now hosts a podcast in Chinese. Links from the episode:#87 The 6 Types of Chinese Learners#79 Why typing characters is better than handwritingEmma 《安末》 (Mandarin Companion Level 1 graded reader)Brad Johnson's Podcasts | MianBao.fmXiaoyuzhou podcast appTop 100 Podcasts on XiaoyuzhouSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
In this special episode, John and Jared interview game-based learning expert Fred Poole who is a professor at Michigan State University, an avid gamer, and also an advanced speaker of Chinese and Spanish. Links from the episode:Fred Poole at GithubGame and Activity Book by Fred Poole (PDF)Identity RPG game Sherlock Holmes and the Case of the Curly Haired Company | Mandarin Companion Level 1 graded readerSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Wayne Moorehead and his guest, Amare Global CEO Jared Turner, talk about why he left his career as an international lawyer to join the direct selling channel, leading with purpose and one of the most pressing topics of today's headlines—mental wellness.
Have you ever had comments in Chinese about your weight, asked how much money you make, or experienced just a general lack of “please” and “thank-you”? John and Jared talk about common usages of Chinese that at times can be perceived as “rude” by non-native speakers. Plus we'll talk about how YOU can avoid being perceived as rude to Chinese speakers. Interview is with Randy Telfer who was first drawn to Chinese by martial arts and today has built a life and career around Chinese.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
How long can you use Chinese before your “brain is full”? John and Jared talk about endurance in Chinese, how to build stamina, and what to expect as your Chinese progresses to the next level. Interview is with Tyler Christler, an American based in Dalian speaking Dongbei-flavored Mandarin who produces videos on Chinese social media. Links from the episode:Chinese Vocabulary Wiki | AllSet Learning#30 Second Language or Foreign Language: What Type of Learner Are You?Tyler Christler is “铁蛋儿Tyler” on Douyin and Bili BiliSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
What do you do when your dictionary says one thing but native speakers say it differently? John and Jared will talk about how to handle this and put it to use in your own studies.Interview is with Ryan Alexander Holmes, an actor, popular TikTocker, and black Afro Asian American, or Blasian. Links from the episode:Prescriptivism vs. Descriptivism | YouTubePronunciation Variants | Chinese Pronunciation WikiThe Ransom of Red Chief | Level 1 Graded ReaderReading is the original SRS | SinospliceRyan Alexander Holmes | TikTok and InstagramSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Jared and John discuss a research paper on learner engagement with vocabulary apps. Whether you're an independent learner or a teacher, there are plenty of surprises and takeaways!Interview is with Jonathan Coveny, whose obsession with Chinese took him on a winding path of learning the language. Especially for all you study nerds out there, don't miss this one. Links from the episode:Research Paper: Stimulating learner engagement in app-based L2 vocabulary self-study: Goals and feedback for effective L2 pedagogy by Xuehong (Stella) He, Shawn LoewenEpisode 40 How to Set Goals for Learning ChineseXiao Ming, Boy Sherlock | Breakthrough Graded ReaderThe Chinese Nickname for “Love, Death & Robots” | SinospliceStories from our Readers: From Flash Cards to Martial Arts -Jonathan's Story | Mandarin CompanionEpisode 61 interview with Jonathan Becker | You Can Learn ChineseSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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Learning a language is much more than learning vocabulary. This includes understanding and anticipating interactions within a cultural context. John and Jared discuss exactly what this means and what you should know to maximize your gains. Interview is with Elisa Ferrero, a native of Italy who learned English to learn Chinese and today is a Chinese teacher to Spanish speakers in Argentina. Links from the episode:AllSet Learning 1-on-1 Live LessonsYou Can Learn Chinese in Taiwan (even now!)HSK Level | vocab level assessmentElisa Ferrero website | ElisaLaoshi.com (Spanish)See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
In 2021, Jared and John at Mandarin Companion surveyed over a thousand Chinese learners worldwide. Based on a statistical analysis, they found six main types of Chinese learners. Which one are you? Interview is with Dillon Jaghory who achieved a high level of Chinese proficiency while living in the U.S. Links from the episode:Country of the Blind | Mandarin Companion Level 1Chinese Character Challenge | Ridiculously basic & somewhat nostalgic game for reviewing HSK characters天天跳绳 | Exercise app in ChineseSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Slang words in Chinese are always evolving, but is it worth it to learn? As always, it depends. Guest interview is with language enthusiast, author, academic, and polyglot Kyle Anderson. Links from the episode:Kyle Anderson | New BooksSherlock Holmes and the Case of the Curly Haired Company | Mandarin Companion Graded ReaderSlow Chinese 每周漫闻 | Weekly Chinese slang newsletterSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Learning from native speakers is essential. In this episode, Jared and John will make you aware of ways they can also lead you astray. Guest interview is with Nicholas Hung who went the extra mile to reconnect with his roots. Links from the episode:Never Trust a Native Speaker – SinosplicePronunciation Variants – Chinese Pronunciation WikiThe Secret Garden －Mandarin Companion Level 1 Graded ReaderSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Do you ever feel like you're trying to get conversational in Chinese but seem to be stuck in textbooks and classes? In this episode, John and Jared discuss the leap involved in moving beyond textbook Chinese to conversational ChineseGuest interview is with Andrew Methven, whose adventures backpacking through the mountains and villages of China inspired him to learn Chinese. Links from the episode:Podcast #13 | The Four Keys to Learning Chinese You Need to KnowPaul Nation – The Four StrandsUpgrading Self-Introductions – SinospliceHSK-Mod Courses - AllSet LearningSlow Chinese 每周漫闻 on SubststackSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
WeChat is the most popular instant messaging platform in China. In this episode, John and I are going to tell you tips and tricks on how to use Wechat to learn Chinese.Interview is with Matt McGill, star actor on the popular YouTube China expat comedy channel “Mamahuhu”. Links from the episode:Where to get WeChat 微信Mamahuhu | YouTube ChannelSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Coach Turner has been the head coach at Gonzaga College High School in downtown Washington, DC since 2004. Coach Turner was honored with the 2017 Gatorade National Coach of the Year Award. He has coached players who have played at Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Harvard, Michigan, Cornell, Brown, Miami, and many more programs at all levels. I was an assistant on Coach Turner's staff for two years and during those years had the privilege to coach eventual NCAA Tournament Legend, Villanova's Kris Jenkins. In this episode Coach Turner discusses coaching in the best high school basketball conference in America, sending his son to prep school, the Gonzaga student section, recruiting junior high players, and much more. What You Will Learn:[2:02] Why is Gonzaga a family environment? [9:24] What makes the WCAC the #1 high school conference in America? [13:15] How do you judge the talent of junior high players? [17:28] Famous Gonzaga alumni [20:15] The talent of former basketball player and NCAA Tournament Legend, Kris Jenkins. [23:45] Why Coach Turner's own son went to prep school and how they chose one. [29:00] How it is coaching his youngest son at Gonzaga, 6'7'' Jared Turner[34:00] Family, working hard and doing what you love. [41:38] Thinking outside the box as a coach [44:22] Biggest surprise of a player he's coached? [47:30] What changes would you make to the NCAA? [1:00:00] Would you consider a post grad year for your son? [1:01:39] Most important characteristic of a college program/school for his son Jared? [1:09:10] Who are the best assistant coaches he has dealt with on the college level? [1:12:33] Biggest win of his career? [1:13] Best player you ever coached against?[1:14:29] Hobbies [1:14:42] Favorite movie [1:15:00] Coach Turner tells us about his own podcast. Connect with Steve: Twitter | https://twitter.com/GonzagaHoops Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/stephen.m.turner.9 Website | https://www.gonzaga.org/team-detail?Team=194972&SeasonLabel=2019%20-%202020 Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/gonzagapurplehoops/?hl=en Connect with Cory: Website | https://www.prepathletics.com Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/prep_athletics/ Twitter | https://twitter.com/PREP_Athletics Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/PrepAthletics Email | coryheitz@gmail.com Phone | 859-317-1166 Subscribe to the PREP Athletics Podcast: iTunes | https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/prep-athletics-podcast/id1546265809?uo=4 Spotify | https://open.spotify.com/show/6CAKbXFiIOhoHinzsReYbJ Stitcher | https://www.stitcher.com/show/prep-athletics-podcast Google Podcasts | https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy80M2YwZTZkMC9wb2RjYXN0L3Jzcw
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