Podcasts about sketchnote handbook

Guest: Matthew Magain, Founder & Chief Doodler at Sketch Group, Member of EO Melbourne Accelerator Program since 2023Host: Linh Podetti, EO Sydney Member since 2022 and Owner of Outsourcing AngelHow do you turn simple sketches into a powerful communication tool? In this episode, Matthew Magain, Founder & Chief Doodler at Sketch Group, shares his journey from software engineer to Visual Storytelling Pioneer, helping major brands like Telstra, NAB, and AFL simplify complex ideas with engaging visuals.Matthew opens up about the highs and lows of entrepreneurship—from dissolving a business partnership to mastering content marketing and reinventing traditional design processes through real-time collaboration.

Ever wondered how visuals can transform your role as a product owner? Join Brian as he sits down with visual storyteller Stuart Young to unravel the power of visualization in product ownership. Join them on a journey to discover the art and science behind being a successful product owner. Overview Ever wondered how to elevate your product ownership game? In this episode, we delve into the world of visual storytelling with Stuart Young. Join Brian and Stuart as they discuss the diverse tools, such as story mapping and the product disposition canvas, that can bring your product visions to life. From storytelling techniques to the neurodiversity lens, we explore the art and science of communication that transcends traditional boundaries. Listen in to uncover the impactful ways visuals can shape your product strategy. Learn how being more visual can sharpen your skills, foster collaboration, and create a more inclusive and successful product development journey. Listen Now to Discover: [00:23] - Today welcomes Stuart Young, a Certified Scrum Trainer and visual storyteller to discuss storytelling through the product lens and more. [03:32] - Stuart discusses drawing large-scale pictures at conferences and recommends Visual Meetings and Visual Leaders by David Sibbit. [06:54] - Stuart emphasizes the impact of visual storytelling on individuals, highlighting the universal language and information retention through visuals. [08:46] - The benefits of visual representation in capturing the flow of ideas and aiding memory. [10:26] - The importance of varied methods for engaging different learning styles. [11:41] - Stuart discusses the value of visualization tools such as roadmaps, post-it notes, and story mapping to provide clarity and a clear narrative. [12:14] - The importance of blending Stuart references Pixar and Ed Catmull's book Creativity, Inc., discussing the importance of blending exciting elements, like storyboarding, in motivating teams and creating a compelling narrative. [15:13] - Stuart emphasizes the importance of authentic storytelling, even if it doesn't always have a happy ending, he references TEDxHogeschoolUtrecht - Steve Denning - “Leadership Storytelling" for further inspiration. [15:25] - Brian recommends Simon Sinek's TED talk on "Start With Why" as an example of effective storytelling despite not being visually polished. [16:09] - Stuart praises Henrik Kniberg's impactful video on product ownership, acknowledging the simplicity of the drawings but highlighting the potency of storytelling. He recommends the Sketchnote Handbook by Mike Rhodes for those interested in delving further into storytelling. [17:08] - The Agile Mentors Podcast is brought to you by Mountain Goat Software and their Certified Scrum Training Classes. For more information, click on the Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule. [18:38] - Stuart highlights the significance of visual elements in crafting compelling visions and underscores the value of utilizing available templates, from sources like the Gamestorming book. [20:06] - Stuart discusses the role of visualization in making the intangible tangible, particularly in the tech space. [21:50] - Brian emphasizes the imprecision of words. He also discusses the value of showing rather than just telling, especially in product requirements, to enhance understanding and avoid delays caused by miscommunications. [23:34] - Stuart reflects on how visual communication can enhance inclusivity. He shares, “For people with reading and writing difficulties, pictures and symbols are better. The worst, the most abstract form, of course, is the word.” [25:22] - The role of a visual storyteller as a "human cursor" connecting diverse conceptual thinkers. Stuart recounts an illustration experience, emphasizing the challenge of visualizing details without clear specifications and underscoring the mantra of "process over art" in product ownership. [28:06] - Stuart underscores the product owner's role in leveraging the unique skills of team members to converge on a shared understanding of what "good" looks like. [29:19] - Brian references the episode of the show they did on Navigating Neurodiversity and the importance of understanding and accommodating different communication styles within a team. He highlights the need for product owners to be aware of the preferences of their team members and adjust communication methods accordingly. [30:54] - Stuart introduces the product disposition canvas and shares a personal revelation. [32:54] - Brian acknowledges the potential superpowers that come with neurodiversity, sharing his own experience of a late-in-life ADHD diagnosis and the benefits of leveraging the unique qualities each team member brings to a team. [33:36] - Stuart reflects on the importance of recognizing individual strengths and blind spots, emphasizing that everyone has a valuable contribution. [34:20] - Stuart encourages recognizing individual strengths for collective success. [35:23] - Listeners can connect with Stuart on LinkedIn and at Agile Nuggets | Agile Tips [37:38] - Please share this episode with others if you found it useful. Send feedback and suggestions for future episodes to podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast on Apple Podcasts so you never miss an episode. [38:21] - If this topic was impactful to you and you want to continue the discussion, join the Agile Mentors Community where we have a topic discussion for each podcast episode. You can get a free year-long membership in the community just by taking any class with Mountain Goat Software. References and resources mentioned in the show: Stuart Young on LinkedIn Agile Nuggets | Agile Tips | Cprime Learning Scrum in Under 10 Minutes #76: Navigating Neurodiversity for High-Performing Teams with Susan Fitzell David Sibbet Visual Meetings by David Sibbet Visual Leaders by David Sibbet Creativity, Inc. Sketchnote Handbook by Mike Rohde TEDxHogeschoolUtrecht - Steve Denning - “Leadership Storytelling" Simon Sinek: How Great Leaders Inspire Action | TED Talk Agile Product Ownership in a Nutshell by Henrik Kniberg Gamestorming: A Playbook for Innovators, Rulebreakers, and Changemakers Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast on Apple Podcasts Certified ScrumMaster Training and Scrum Certification Certified Scrum Product Owner Training Advanced Certified Scrum Product Owner® Advanced Certified ScrumMaster® Mountain Goat Software Certified Scrum and Agile Training Schedule Join the Agile Mentors Community Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Brian Milner is SVP of coaching and training at Mountain Goat Software. He's passionate about making a difference in people's day-to-day work, influenced by his own experience of transitioning to Scrum and seeing improvements in work/life balance, honesty, respect, and the quality of work. Stuart Young, a Certified Scrum Trainer and Visual Storyteller, merges Agile methodologies and design thinking to empower individuals and teams. As a thought leader, he champions Visual Storytelling for engaging stakeholders, addressing customer needs, and expediting learning. Through workshops, Stuart encourages teams to embrace visual methodologies to achieve business success.

In this episode, Paddy Dhanda sits down with Mike Rohde, the renowned Godfather of Sketchnoting, at the International Sketchnote Camp in Leiden. They delve into the essence of visual thinking, the rich history of sketchnoting, and ponder its place in a rapidly advancing AI-driven world. Join us for a journey that bridges the gap between ancient cave drawings and the digital age, exploring the timeless human joy of visual expression.Key Takeaways:* The unique spirit and community of the International Sketchnote Camp.* Sketchnoting: More than just doodles, it's a visual language that transcends disciplines.* The future of sketchnoting in an AI-dominated world: Will the human touch prevail?Photos from the International Sketchnote Camp 2023Paddy Dhanda (left) Mike Rohde (centre) Grant Wright (Right)Sketch by Mike Rohde

Mike Rohde is the creator of Sketchnotes, a method of note-taking that uses a combination of handwriting, drawings, hand-lettering, shapes, and visual elements like arrows, boxes, and lines. The focus is on capturing ideas, not art, and you don't need any special drawing ability to do it. In fact, Mike has been known to issue “permission to suck at drawing” certificates, encouraging people to practice and develop at their own pace.He's a designer, author, teacher, podcaster and illustrator with a passion for not only visualizing ideas, but for teaching people how to think visually and be more creative. He's fostered a community of enthusiastic sketchnoters, known as The Sketchnote Army, who support and encourage each other online and at in-person events.Mike's bestselling book that introduced his technique to the world, The Sketchnote Handbook, just celebrated its ten year publication anniversary and it's more popular than ever! His follow-up, The Sketchnote Workbook, shows how you can use sketchnotes in your everyday life to capture ideas, plan projects, document processes, and capture memorable experiences.On this episode, host Angela de Burger chats with Mike about how he developed his sketchnoting approach for note-taking, the benefit of adding constraints to his process, why the approach is about capturing ideas, not art, and how he fostered the development of a global community of sketchnoters. Say hi to Mike:  Website - rohdesign.com  Instagram - @rohdesign   Twitter - @rohdesign  Mastodon - @rohdesign   Sketchnote Army website - sketchnotearmy.com   Sketchnote Army podcast - sketchnotearmy.com/podcast ----Creative Pulse Podcast socials:  Instagram:  creativepulsepodcast  Twitter  @CreativePulseTWMusic credit: https://www.purple-planet.com

In this episode, Katrin shares how working on personal branding and marketing as a university project launched her sketchnoting career and increased her visibility on LinkedIn.Sponsored By ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by Concepts, a perfect tool for sketchnoting, available on iOS, Windows, and Android.Concepts' infinite canvas lets you to sketchnote in a defined area while still enjoying infinite space around it — to write a quick note, scribble an idea or to keep pre-drawn visual elements handy for when you need them most.The infinite canvas lets you stretch out and work without worrying if you'll run out of space. When combined with powerful vector drawing that offers high-resolution output and complete brush and stroke control — you have a tool that's perfect for sketchnoting.SEARCH “Concepts” in your favorite app store to give it a try.Running OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Katrin?Origin StoryKatrin's current workSponsor: ConceptsTipsToolsWhere to find KatrinOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Katrin on LinkedInKatrin's websiteKatrin on InstagramEva-Lotta LammThe Sketchnote Handbook: The Illustrated Guide to Visual Note Taking by Mike RohdeEat to Beat Depression and Anxiety: Nourish Your Way to Better Mental Health in Six WeeksDr. Drew Ramsey podcastGoogle career event for women.Richard van der BloomAndrew D. HubermanHell Yeah or no by Derek SiversSketchnoting: Communicate with Visual Notes with Eva-Lotta LammToolsPen.Notebook.Steadtler pigment linersStabilo pensCopic markersTombow brush pensiPadProcreateDrawing glovesPaperlikeTipsPick a project you are really exited about.Don't compare yourself to othersDon't overcomplicate things. Don't overcomplicate sketchnoting.Don't over value talent.CreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerShownotes and transcripts: Esther OdoroSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde's bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!Episode TranscriptMike Rohde: Hey everyone, it's Mike and I'm here with Katrin Wietek. How are you doing, Katrin? ** Katrin Wietek:** I'm really good and I'm really honored to be on your podcast today, Mike. MR: And it's so great to have you. I'm excited to hear your story and all the things you have to share with us. But first, I understand that you have a nickname, Kat, and I would love to hear what's the origin story of the nickname. KW: Actually, in 2014 and 2015, I went for a work and travel year in New Zealand. I'm originally from Germany. And I decided I wanted to go to the place that's the furthest away from Germany, and that was New Zealand, and it was also beautiful on top of that. I worked at a little cafe restaurant thingy and there was another employee from Germany and her name was Karina, so Karina in English and our boss, he switched up our names all the time. And then one day he said, "You know, from this day on, I'll call you Karina and your Kat." From that day on, with all my English-speaking friends, I stuck with Kat, basically. So yeah, that's how Kat came to be. MR: Oh, that's great. You probably know how to make a really good flat white then, I suspect if you worked in a cafe in New Zealand, eh? KW: My barista skills came a little bit later. They didn't trust me with the coffee machine. I was basically waiting tables and getting orders in and working on the till and everything. But a little bit later I was finally taught how to do coffee MR: Oh, good, good. I'm glad to hear that. That's very important. If you go to New Zealand, you have to have a flat white, I think, or Australia. KW: Or Mocha. MR: Mocha, yeah. KW: Don't forget the Mocha. MR: That's my wife's favorite drink, so she would be happy to hear that. KW: Nice. MR: So, hey, let's get started. I am really curious to hear your story. You've hinted as we've gotten ready to begin that you have an interesting one. Tell us the story of how you ended up—well, actually, let me back up. I think I'm jumping my own schedule. Let's first understand who you are. Tell us who you are and what you do, and then you can jump right into your origin story after that. KW: Okay. As a profession, I would say I am a content marketer by day. I work in B2B content marketing, part-time. And then I'm also self-employed. I do freelancing work. And that's not only sketchnoting and illustrating, but a whole range of copywriting and social media work. I have a really diverse career, I would say. MR: Oh, that's great. Obviously, the place that I've found you and I've seen you do most of your work is LinkedIn, which is fascinating because as social media goes, I've actually been more attracted to LinkedIn in a lot of ways because the quality just seems like it's a little bit better and there's, I guess a little bit fewer ads. I don't know, they all seem overloaded with ads to me, but I know that Instagram has a strong community around sketchnoting, but I'm starting to see, and the thing I don't know, is on LinkedIn, is it because I'm following so many visual thinkers that my feed just seems loaded with visual thinking? Or is it actually a trend in LinkedIn? It's probably more likely the former, in that I've sort of made a little bubble for myself. But I would love to hear, a little bit of your thought on LinkedIn and the work you do there specifically. KW: I think LinkedIn is a platform where visuals work really, really well. I think part of that is that the platform is not like as visual as Instagram or Pinterest, for example. Because on Instagram you had this buildup, every visual had to be better than the other one. And people are just used to beautiful pictures and really good infographics and everything. And a lot of the content on LinkedIn is still text-based. So, I think once you add a really cool picture that's not a selfie, that actually drives value, I think that's why they work really well. And also, because LinkedIn is a bit more similar to Facebook and the way that if somebody comments, this comment pops up in your timeline if you follow the person. It's a lot easier to be discovered by other people on LinkedIn. Especially, when I was posting on LinkedIn, I did a lot of career content, and that's perfect for the platform. You know, it's a whole like strategic networking and the career world, if you do content in that area. I think that's just pre predestined for LinkedIn. And I would say yes, you live in kind of a bubble, but I think the amount of visuals and infographics and sketchnotes is definitely increased over time. I think when I started doing it, I didn't see a lot of work like that, but who was already on the platform at that time was Tanmay Vora. I think you know him. MR: Oh yeah, yeah. KW: I saw his schedules a lot. And now it's gotten a lot more, which is cool. Oh, and you also see a lot of the explained ideas visually on LinkedIn, really small graphics where it's just a simple idea. There are a few people who do that and they are all over LinkedIn. MR: Got it. My screen up has one of your more recent sketchnotes, my takeaways from the LinkedIn algorithm report. So maybe I need to look at that sketch note and sort of understand what's going on and then I adjust accordingly, right? Yeah. KW: Yeah. It will be a lot quicker than reading the whole 50 or 60-page report. MR: Which is the beauty of Sketchnoting, right? KW: It is. MR: That's really great to hear. All right. So, we know what you do. Go into your origin story. It sounded like you had a really interesting history before, to kind of bring you to where you are. I'd love to hear that story. KW: The story's actually a little bit longer, so sit back. MR: Go for it. We have time. We have plenty of time. KW: I started thinking about what you said, like, was there a moment in my childhood or in my school life? And I wouldn't say not really, but I always had really neat school notes. Because when I had a messy note from school, I wouldn't learn from it. I always needed to make sure like my handwriting was nice and it didn't look messy. And I also remember color coding different topics. For example, we did the democratic system in Germany or whatever, and then it had like yellows, oranges, and reds throughout the whole topic. And then for another topic I chose, I don't know, blues, purples and dunno. So that helped me. At that time, I had no understanding of graphic design or how color theory works, but I did that just intuitively. I would say I was never really good at drawing in school. Arts and drawing always can really hard. And it wasn't until I discovered the internet and that I could like retrace work of other people, that helped me understand and get better at my art skills I also remember one funny story. It was actually during my A Levels. In the German language class, we were very required to read all those classic, like all these classic books from good and so on. From the 1700 and 1800s. And I hadn't read a single one of them for my A Levels. During the years, like the grade 11 and 12, it was I think, I never read anything and then I kind of panicked. What I did was I looked up the Wikipedia summaries, and I couldn't memorize any of it, so I drew little comics. So, I had like gorgeous work and like a little scrappy comic. And then all these other people's works, I basically just looked at the comics the whole time when I was on the bus and when I was at home. I never had read these books because I had so much other stuff to learn. I think that's maybe when it started and when I found the power of visuals and with my really neat school notes that I had drawn. I think that's how I came to be. I'm not sure if it was you who I found first, but I think actually it was Eva-Lotta Lamm— MR: Makes sense. Yeah. KW: Who I found first because it was in 2015, I would say when I finished school, she did like a travel diary consisting out of sketch modes from her around the world trip. And I thought that was so cool, so incredibly cool. I was really inspired because I'd also like traveled and I thought, "I wish I had known it before then." And I think that's when I googled the term sketchnotes and then your book popped up. "The Sketchnote Handbook." I think at that time it wasn't available in German or maybe it was, but I ordered the English version on Amazon. Then I read through it and I did some of the exercises and then I forgot all about it. I got busy because I started a degree. After school I started my degree in digital media and I was actually working in software development at the same time and I was doing user research user experience design, I think what you are doing right now as well, Mike. I forgot about the sketchnotes, but what I always had to do at work was like facilitate workshops. I worked a lot on flip charts everything and I always was really invested in making those flip charts look really, really nice and really cool and really clean. During the whole degree I forgot about the whole sketchnote thing. When I finished my degree, I was little bit lost a because I knew what I was doing before. I wasn't sure if I wanted to pursue that as a career and I wanted to know maybe there's other stuff out there as well. I decided I wanna take a break between my bachelor's and my master's and I got a part-time job and I decided in 2019 I was gonna do 12 creative projects. Each month was one creative project. That's when I remembered that I had your book at home and I was like, well, in January, let's start with the sketchnotes because I really wanna get better at them. And I've never got into them and never had finished any work. January was sketchnotes. I basically listened to podcasts about topics I was really interested in at that time. So that was personal finance. I was teaching myself a lot about finance and what to do and taxes and what not to do and also health topics. From a research perspective, how do I live a healthy life? Like what do I need to do? What should I eat? How much should I sleep? How do I reduce stress and everything? Mental health was really big at that time. I listened to all those podcasts and I basically turned them into sketchnotes to just memorize all the information that I heard on all the podcasts. I started posting them on Instagram. Basically, you set up a whole new account, said, "Hey, here's my 12th creative project." If you scroll down, you can still see the announcement. Then basically just posted all of the sketchnotes. It was really funny because one of the—oh, and what I wanted to say, one of my core values in life is lifelong learning. And I think the sketchnotes tie in really well with that because they help you so much with learning because you're visualizing the information and it helps you memorize it, it helps you retrieve it. That's why I picked it as a first project. Actually, I did one sketchnote about mental health and nutrition, what are important nutrients for the brain. It was a podcast with a nutritional psychiatrist called Drew Ramsey. He was from New York. I did a sketchnote. I tagged him, didn't expect anything of it, but he saw a sketchnote and he loved it. He was like, "Oh, this is so cool." At that time, I had maybe done, I would say 10 sketchnotes in total. MR: Oh wow. That's pretty good.KW: Yeah, I know. He was like, "I have this research about— In his research he identified 23 nutrients that are important for the brain. And he was like, "Do you wanna do a sketchnote on each of them?" I was like, "Okay. I'm not a freelancer, you know, I've just only started this, this is a hobby actually I have a February project coming up." I was a bit confused, but I said yes because I like to do things that terrify me. At that time, my process was still really, really basic. I was basically what you describe in your book, I don't know the two-way technique. I basically had a piece of paper, I drew everything on pencil, erased a whole lot and then rearranged it and I had the whole pencil thingy, then I retraced it with a pen, then I erased my pencil lines, then I scanned it, then I put it in Photoshop and made it look really neat. That's what I uploaded. That's also what I did for Drew Ramsey, so it was really tedious. It took a lot of time to do the 23 nutrients. MR: I bet. KW: Yeah. And I can tell you I never got around to doing the another 11 project of that year because Drew was really happy and then he came to me and he said, "You know what? I'm writing a new book. Do you wanna illustrate it?" I was like, "Oh my God." MR: That's great. Scary but great, right? KW: It was really scary. I think there was a lot of serendipity involved in that whole story because I basically had just started, it was just to figure out what I wanted to do with my creative life and with my career. And it was just one project of many projects. I had so much cool stuff coming up. I wanted to do product design and videos and editing, but I got stuck with the sketchnotes. And the book was really cool. The topic was "Eat to Beat Depression and Anxiety." So basically, the nutrients that are important for the brain and if you suffer from certain mental health conditions. Drew was super cool. He was writing the script at the same time and he always sent me the script and he basically said, "You have full creative freedom. You can decide what to make a sketchnote out of. Here's the script. You can decide how many sketchnotes you wanna make." I can remember I got—because he published a book with Harper Collins and they sent me this whole illustrative agreement. I was like, "Oh my God, I have no idea what I'm signing here and what they want from me and file types." I had no idea what they wanted. MR: Production stuff. KW: Yeah. I was so terrified. But I did it. For that project actually I knew that my whole pen and paper and pencil and scanning and Photoshopping wouldn't work, so I got the iPad for that. Basically, took all the money that I made from the 23 nutrient sketchnotes and put it in an iPad so I could do the book project. That was super fulfilling. And they never had any revision wishes or something like that. They basically like, "Oh, you want to do a sketchnote on the benefits of dark chocolate, do it. Just do it. And it was so cool. I would say, that took around half a year. Basically, my break had come to an end and I was really doing a lot of sketchnoting. Well, in retrospective, it wasn't so much sketchnoting work, but I also had a part-time job. For me, it filled a lot of my time and I didn't have time or the creative energy to do anything else at the time by the way. Fun fact, these old sketchnotes that I created with the pen and paper and Photoshopping and scanning and everything, they also landed in the book. Nobody told me. They totally didn't fulfill the technical requirements and stuff, but Drew was just like, "I want this in the book." MR: He's passionate about it. KW: Yeah. He was passionate and he didn't care that they had a totally different style and like the quality was really different to the iPad because of how the way I worked back then. It was so funny that he like just put them in the book as well. That was really funny. After the book project I started my master's degree, I was figuring out I wanted to go into marketing, and my degree was in corporate communications. It was really funny, we had a social media module. Basically, do a social media strategy. My professor, he had these companies that we could collaborate with or we could also bring our own project. For example, like one of my classmates, he brought I think his dad's tax office firm or something like that. Then during my degree, I got really interested in LinkedIn because first time in my life I actually knew or got to know what B2B and B2B marketing was. Then I found out, okay, there's this platform LinkedIn and everybody's on LinkedIn and I should maybe make an account too. At that time, I think personal branding, the whole term and the concept of it was really popular on LinkedIn. Right now, it's everywhere, but at that time it grew in popularity, I would say. Then I thought, maybe I can do my own personal branding strategy. Then I asked my professor and he was like, "Yeah, sure, do whatever you want. And I was like, cool— MR: That's so smart. KW: Cool, let's do it. And then, I think I got a book about digital personal branding. It was a German book. The author, she basically said, "Because you have to figure out your content strategy and what you're gonna write about and what mediums you're gonna use and what the purpose is and who your audience is." And she basically started like, "Lay out your superpower portfolio." So basically, write down all your skills, your knowledge, your unique experiences. Then I did the whole exercise and I put sketchnoting in there for my skills. Then she said, "Well, which ones do resonate the most? Circle them and then make your content strategy out of it." Then I knew, okay, sketchnotes were gonna play a big role in my personal branding thingy, kind of. And at that time, because I was in LinkedIn, I was really interested in how could I advance my career. I had basically just done a pivot from lUX design to marketing. Then there were so many content creators talking about how to negotiate your salary, what to put on your cv, how to strategically network on LinkedIn. I thought it was so cool. I never heard any of that before. Everything I learned from LinkedIn Lives and podcasts and other people's posts, I just put into sketchnotes because I wanted to memorize it. And that was really cool 'cause like I said, the whole career content really resonates with the whole LinkedIn audience because everybody's trying to advance in their careers and in their jobs. So yeah, that was really cool. I think basically, I had a few favorite creators and they had a huge following. So what I did, I watched a talk and then I created a sketchnote then I tagged them. Like I said earlier, LinkedIn works a bit like Facebook. So then they saw it, they commented and then their whole network came to my sketchnotes. That's how I created this, in my eyes, huge following. 10,000 followers is not huge, but for me it's like, oh my God i'ts crazy.MR: That's pretty good. It's pretty huge. KW: Yeah. I think so. That's how I grew on the sketchnotes. They really blew up. I would say like after the social media module we had to do a presentation with our analytics and I think I had half a million views on my content. Which to me was just mind blowing, you know. I had no idea how to explain. It was just like, you know, I did this. I posted this, this was my strategy and it just worked so well. It was incredible. Like I said, visuals work really well on LinkedIn. That definitely contributed to it even though I had a super small reach. But since all the big creators saw it and brought their audience, that didn't matter so much. Funny story, then it was summer and I was a bit exhausted from the module and I thought, woo, that was intense because all these people text you and write you, and like how do you do it and you wanna hop on a call? And I was really overwhelmed with all the attention that I then I went abroad. Funny story. And then I went abroad to study in Scotland for a semester and I had another digital marketing module and our professor was basically, "You just have to create a website and market it and you can create a website about whatever you want." And I'm like, "Well, I'm gonna pick my own website and market it." That's how my website came to be out of that university project. And with the marketing, I basically continue what I was doing anyway on LinkedIn. Then I posted a bit more on Instagram and I tried out on Pinterest as well, but I basically just continued for the module, what I was doing in the old module as well. I'm really grateful that my university professors both in Germany and in Scotland, they just let me do my own thing and work on my personal brand because it paid off crazy. I still can't believe the few sketchnotes that I posted, I got so much attention and my audience grew. I'm really thankful they just let me do my own thing and get university credits for it. That's cool. MR: You really got good value from your education in that sense because it was so directed and practical. KW: Yeah. MR: As I listen to your story, the two things I reflect on is you actually started this all with, you mentioned reading about Goethe and all these masters, and you made these little comic books that you then studied. You realized really early that there was something about the visualization, at least for your brain. At that point you probably didn't think about anybody else, right. You just wanted to pass your A levels, right? So, you were using this technique to visualize this information and you found that it worked for you and that you came back to it. And that turned out to be of the seed for everything that you're doing, which is cool. And then the second part is what you just said that your professors were open to you directing your own path of the things that you wanted to market. I would imagine from a professor's perspective, and when I was in school, I relate to this that there was a crew of a couple of people who were really interested in doing more than the more than the curriculum said. There were a lot of people that just did exactly what the curriculum said and they met it to the T. They did exactly what the teacher wanted, but it was kind of boring, right? Like it was the same as the sample. Like it didn't really extend further. So, I can imagine these professors more have the problem of students, like if they gave them any choice that they would not choose anything. They would just go to the ones that everybody else does. And so, they might have actually been excited to see that you took it in a direction that most students don't, which is, well I know me the best, let's market myself and take that as the case study. So that's cool that the opportunity was there and that you kept on leaning on it. And then I guess the third thing would be your sense with these sketchnotes that you did initially that turned into 23 sketchnotes and then a book that it reveals to me that if you're in the right place at the right time doing this work and you hit the right person, those opportunities can open up. Obviously, they did and then you were aware enough that you stepped into those even though they were probably pretty scary, right? Doing 23 sketchnotes manually and doing all this work. And then jumping right into doing a book illustration project was, I'm sure a real challenge and maybe freaked you out a little bit at the time, but now you're glad that you did it right. Think of how much that's impacted your career and your person as well. That's just a great story. It's really fun to listen to you to share it with us. KW: I would definitely say because what you—and there's a whole lot of serendipity involved. Like you said, I was at the right time in the right place. What I also didn't expect, you know, basically my goal with the whole like personal branding thing on LinkedIn, which people know me for now, they don't know me for the book illustration project or what I did back then, the little bit of work.But it's impacted my career in so many ways that don't directly translate to sketchnotes even. For example, I had recruiters reach out to me. I was a marketer on LinkedIn, but I must have thought that my sketchnoting skills translate to, "Well, she must be a good marketer. She gets all this engagement, she has to know what she's doing on social media." That was really astounding that basically they just saw the sketchnoting skill, but they assumed I was a good marketer because of what I was doing. Then also I remember I attended an online Google career event for women and I basically, they had lots of inspiring speakers and I basically just put my favorite quotes on a really nice-looking sketchnote. Then you could apply for this Google career upskilling program as a university person. I networked with all the people that I put on the sketchnote, like the quotes. I put the quotes in the sketchnote and then I also submitted this with my application and I got into the program. I think it was a really smart way of saying, "Hey, "I'm going the extra mile and I really want this." But that was really cool. And then also, one of my former employers, they had seen me on LinkedIn and I was doing paid media work for them, but they were like, "Do you wanna kickstart our LinkedIn strategy? "Do you wanna come up with that? I was still a student at that time, so that was kind of big, you know, like coming up with the strategy and presenting it to the founders and to CEO of the company. That was really cool. I think also, in the hiring processes as a marketer, it always gave me a big bonus because I'm a content marketer, and I wanna make sure I have a really diverse skillset set. Be it writing or basic video editing skills or basic graphic design skills. And then I also have sketchnoting skills in case they needed it at some point. And then I have, of course, the freelance work as a sketchnoter, but also like freelance work as a copywriter for LinkedIn. Because they see, hey, I know how the platform works and then people approach me if I can help them with the LinkedIn profiles and with their content. Because I'm a polymath, I'm a multi-passionate person. I have many interests in life. I really appreciate it. That not only sketchnoting work came from this, but so many other opportunities. That's so cool. For me, that's the best part about the whole story. MR: That's really great. And I think, you know, not to be missed if you're listening is Katrin was very aware of these opportunities. I remember there was a study years ago, they talked about happy people or something, or lucky people, I don't know if you've heard this story that they had a newspaper and the lucky people would notice that there was an ad in the second page that said, "If you see this ad, stop reading and go collect your money you've won or something.” But people that were unlucky who thought themselves unlucky would miss that and they were looking through this newspaper. So, apparently, that was the whole test. The study more deeply talked about, being lucky is much more of a mindset because these things happen to many people, but many people are not prepared or not aware or not willing to do what you did. You were aware, you were prepared, you know, to do something, but then you also took a risk, right? Doing those 23 things was probably scary. Some people might have turned that down and that whole line of books and everything that happened would go open a puff of smoke, right? KW: Yeah. MR: This idea that you're open to trying new things and you know, the possibility of failure is there, right? That could have gone badly, but you wouldn't know that until you went down that path. I think, if you're listening to this and thinking, "Oh she's so lucky." It's like, well she kind of made her own luck. She saw these opportunities and she took a risk that could have gone the other way and it just worked out that she did the hard work to deliver. I think that this is such a great origin story that's so inspiring. Maybe we don't need tips. Maybe you just need to listen to the origin story again instead of the tips. I don't know. KW: I have one fun mantra that ties in really well with this. I always say to myself, "I can be terrified and brave at the same time." Same with the podcast. I was super scared to come on and talk about this and it's my first podcast. But this doesn't keep me from doing stuff. Same with the book project. I don't understand the illustrative agreement and everything, but I'm gonna figure it out. You know, I'm terrified, but that doesn't mean it keeps me from doing the thing. And yeah, that's one of my life things that's really important to me. MR: I love that. That's a great one. Okay. We've got your origin story. Tell us about what's a project that you're working on now that you're really excited about? Either something that maybe just came out or maybe something that's in the works that will come out when this episode releases in March, sometime. KW: What I was really excited about was part two of the LinkedIn algorithm report thing by Richard van de Blom. It's actually quite funny. I've landed so many dream projects in my life basically by giving away a little bit of my work for free. Then the person seeing it and then them hiring me to do more of that. And that same thing happened with Richard. So basically, did the LinkedIn algorithm report in 2021 just for free. I found it and I thought, I thought, "Oh, this is a great piece of content, maybe a bit too long for LinkedIn, let's put it in a sketchnote. I think this could be really beneficial." And Richard basically said, how it blew up. And he was like, "Wow, that's crazy. Can you do more of that for me?" And I love working with him. Because I always say it's more important who you work with than what you than what you work on 'cause he basically gives me full creative freedom. He's not somebody to do many revisions. He's basically, "Just do whatever you want. I trust you, you're the expert." Apart from that, actually, that answer might surprise you, but I've taken a step back from freelancing in particular 'cause I was doing so much freelance work and not much work just close to my heart, you know, just for myself as a hobby. Freelancing burned me out a little bit, particularly being stuck in revision hell, revisions going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth.I'm taking a step back and really asking myself the question, is this something I wanna make a lot of money with or is it more a hobby? And if a dream project comes along my way, then I'm gonna do it, but otherwise, I'm gonna say no. I don't have an answer to that question yet. I think like some days I lean more towards that and other days I lean more towards the hobby side of it. I always listen to the other guests on your podcast 'cause they have made a career out of it and they are illustrators and everything. But me, as a multi-passionate person, I don't want to be like a full-time illustrator or a full-time sketchnote artist. What I do as a content marketer, I can do so many different disciplines, and sketchnoting is one of them.So yeah, freelancing has taken the joy away from it a little bit. So, I'm taking a break right now to find my passion again and the things I'm really passionate about and then maybe get into freelancing again. If one of my favorite podcasts said, "Hey, can you be like our sketchnoter for every episode? Like Andrew Huberman, I love his podcast, neuroscience. He talks about neuroscience. Then I will be, "Of course, I would draw each of your episodes." But with other projects, I have to be really excited either about the person that I work with or about the work they do. Otherwise, it's a clear no. It needs to be a hell yes for the work that I do.MR: Which is Derek Sivers, of course. "Hell Yeah or No," Is his famous book. It seems like what you're talking about is opportunity cost, right? If I'm doing freelance work, what if this amazing podcast comes in and I'm loaded? I can't do it. The opportunity might be lost there. So you have to be careful. I think in some ways, probably the advantage you have in working part-time is that you have to make a choice. If you're doing something like this full-time, then you would have more margin to do more and maybe you wouldn't feel it. But being part-time helps you get clarity around what you want to do.Then probably the other thing I would say is you probably would identify that as a multi-talented content marketer that sometimes sketchnotes aren't the right medium for something. Sometimes video is a better medium or writing is a better medium, right? It's like an expert mechanic. They don't use the wrench for everything because it's not designed for that. You use the tool that's designed for that task. In the same way, Sketchnoting can be overused, I think, and if you see too much of it, then it becomes like back background noise or something. So, deploying it in the right opportunities probably is important there. So—KW: I actually.MR: Go ahead.KW: I actually wanted to ask you, Mike, how you decide which freelance projects to take on and how you prevent creative burnout. 'Cause I definitely struggled with it, so I wanted to hear your opinion on this.MR: Well, I've struggled with it as well. I do a full-time job as a user experience designer. I love doing it. I work in software. For some people they would look at what I do and think, "That's like the most boring thing ever." But I love it. Like helping work on corporate software and solving—making somebody's life. I don't know who these somebodies are. Somebody's life is going to get better because I've spent the time to think about what's the right way to work through this workflow so that it's smoother, that it's cleaner, that if I do it in one area, it applies to another area. All these things that I think about. That's my full-time work.What that means is that all the sketchnoting stuff that I do, if I travel and I teach at a school, or if I go to the international sketchnote camp or whatever I do, like I've got a limited time to choose from. So, I have to be very choosy and picky. I think I followed a similar pattern to you. It's either really yes or no. I tend to be someone who loves to help people. So, I'll tend to say yes, a little bit too much. I've been getting better at saying no. One of my solutions has been to build a network of people who do work that I admire so that when I get the project that comes in, it's like, "Eh, I could do that, but I'm not in love with it." I could think, "John is really good at that. I'm gonna make a connection to John or Mary." Just as an example.For me, I need this outlet of somebody else who I can trust that will handle it, that is a good fit. Like they would fit together and then I just redirect that inquiry to that person. Then try to focus on the things I'm excited about it or I think it will have an impact. That's hard. I don't think I've solved the problem completely because I certainly, occasionally will get projects that aren't exactly what I want to do. But for the most part, I think your comment about finding the right customers is really important. The people you work with are much more important than the projects in a lot of ways. Because if you're given creative freedom like you've said—I think the other thing, the other thing I would say is finding clients that are collaborative.It sounds like many of the clients you've mentioned were very collaborative and working, working with you. They were open to your expertise and would listen to you. Being able to modify what they were thinking if they come to you with an idea and then you come back with them with an alternate idea. You just twisted a little bit and say, "Did you ever think about maybe doing this or that?" And then they're open to it. That's a really important aspect for a customer that I look for.You can tell pretty quickly when you start working on something with someone, whether that's there or that's not there. And then you would have a tendency—I have a few people that I work with. If they call and say they need something, I'm an immediate yes. I don't even have to think about it because I like that person so much. It sounds like you have similar people. Those are the few things that I do.The last thing I'll say is having kids for me is helpful because I can't work all the time. I need to spend time with my kids. I like cooking with my kids. I like spending time with my wife. I have a whole other life beyond all this stuff that keeps me grounded. And just reminding myself that I can't do it all and it's okay. There's many other people and it's a huge opportunity. Everybody's got plenty of work to do and if I give it away to somebody else, it's not like the work will stop coming. It just keeps coming. I don't know if that's helpful.KW: Absolutely. I'm totally on your side and I share your view here. I was wondering, Mike, was there ever a time when you considered sketchnoting your full-time career? Because you're kind of like the inventor of sketchnote. I'm surprised actually to hear that you have this whole full-time job apart from that.MR: I've considered it in the past. It just felt like with a family and all the responsibilities that the variability would be a challenge. I think maybe sometime in the future that would make sense. But I think honestly, having it as a side gig has been good. I've hinted to in the feedback I've given, which is because it can only be a side gig because I'm such a helper and wanting to help people, it forces me to choose. Like if I had it full-time, I might like really overload myself. Having this finite constraint is actually a good thing for me. I found that with sketchnotes too.I stumbled on the sketch notes 'cause I constrained myself to a little book and a pen. That helped me to move into the space where visualization made sense 'cause I couldn't write everything down, I couldn't draw everything. I had to do it in the moment. That whole history was tied to constraints. I found any time where I put some limitations on myself is when I'm most creative. I think that's maybe true for other creative people too. Having that limitation on what's available forces me to make a decision. Like, am I really gonna spend the next three months working on this thing or is it better spent on something else?Sometimes I choose and it's like, "Oh, I wish I hadn't done this." Or it's taking longer than I wanted. I'm still happy with the output. Again, the opportunity cost means, 'cause I'm working on that, I can't take something else that comes in so I have to be more careful. I think, in some ways it's better to have it as a side thing because I can really be selective.KW: I absolutely love it as a side thing. Like I said, especially as being a multi-passionate person, it helps me so much. And then also realizing my time is really valuable. 'Cause otherwise I would've maybe the whole week and I would have a few hours every week. Then communicating this to clients and also saying, "Hey, don't expect revisions in the next five days 'cause I'm really busy with other things. It helps me prioritize and also keeps my life super interesting 'cause I have this other thing next to my regular job, like my employment. I love it. I wouldn't have it any other way. So, I can totally get what you're saying.MR: Like I said, maybe in the future the opportunity comes where it becomes a full-time thing. The other thing that I didn't mention is when I started all this stuff, there really wasn't a sketchnoting anything. There are people doing it. Eva-Lotta was doing it around the same time. We started to build this community. A Lot of the work has been building a community of people that do it so that I have students to teach now. Now I'm doing more teaching and that's working well because there's actually people that are interested enough that they would spend money to get real deep teaching.Then also companies being aware. I think you're starting to see this. Companies are becoming aware that visuals in the right context can be incredibly powerful. There's actually enough of a supportive market that you could be full-time. Actually, many of the people on the podcast like Ben Felis and a bunch of other people are full-time because of both of those things. There's a community that's willing to hire them to learn and then there's professionals that are willing to pay for them to do the work. I think a little bit of it is timing and waiting for the market to be there. That sounds like something maybe in the future would make sense to move in that direction. But I haven't decided that yet.KW: It's so fun what you said about teaching 'cause I'm not at all into teaching sketchnoting to other people. So many people have asked me like, "Wow do you do it and what you use and how did you get started?" I always just point them to your book. I'm like, "Sketchnote Handbook" by Mike is the only thing you ever need to read and practice to learn sketchnoting." Then I'm always so happy when I see you have another live workshop coming up and I'm like, "Yeah, go to Mike. He'll teach you. 'Cause I learned from him and he does such a great job. Every time I hear somebody who wants to learn sketchnoting, I point them in your direction.MR: Well, now if you're a German speaker and you're listening, there's another opportunity with Eva-Lotta's got a course that she's offering on Udemy, which think it's around 20 euros, something like that. $20. Anything that Eva-Lotta does is excellent. I'm one of her biggest fans. She's really great and she's very skilled. That's in German language. If there's Germans listening could be a really good fit if that's more natural for you to check that out. Look that up. She also does more intensive teaching on sketching. She's a great teacher as well.KW: I can only second that. I love her work.MR: She's really great. We've talked about your whole origin story, what you're working on. Now let's shift into tools. I'm really curious, you sort of hinted at this. You originally were doing this pencil sketches and inking and erasing and Photoshop, and that's the way I did it too 'cause that's all there was. You had to do that. Now we have really great mobile phone cameras. There's even tools on mobile phones to do modifications. We have platforms like LinkedIn and Instagram where we can share these things. Tell us about what are your tools that you use now? Let's start if you still use any analog tools. What are those tools and then digital after that?KW: With the analog tools, I thought about it a long time. Actually, over the years I became a minimalist and decluttered my whole home and everything. I have to say sketchnoting and illustration doesn't go well with that because you have to buy a pen in every new color that's out there. It just never stops with stationary and pens and notebooks and everything. They didn't make the cut after I switched to the iPad, but if I do some work, I always use the Staedtler Pigment Liners. I think they're a favorite in the community.MR: Excellent. Yeah.KW: And then basically, what I had at home, I used the Stabilo pens back then. I had Copic markers, but you need a certain kind of paper for them 'cause they're alcohol based, otherwise, they bleed through everything. Copic Markers. I had a few Tombow brush pens that I used, but it was really basic. I basically had like maybe 20 pens and pencils that I used the whole time. And then I made the switch to completely digital work 'cause I was always like, "Where do I store all of my work? It's not only stationary and pens and pens, where do I keep it?"Then there's the elements, there's heat and light and everything that works against your work. You know you have of preserve it. And I was getting really stressed out about that. Now, I'm more chill that I know it's all in a digital space. Now my digital space is really cluttered, but I'm working on that as well. But yeah, since then I've basically switched to the iPad and Procreate, the standard stuff and it's really cool. What I want to get, I haven't tried it 'cause I don't actually know anybody who's doing like iPad kind of work. But I never got one of the Paperlike skills 'cause I never wanted to put them on my iPad permanently. But now I know there's a company they do a magnetic thingMR: I've seen this, yeah as well on Instagram. I think I've seen this.KW: You can basically just put it on and then—'cause I watch a lot of TV series and stuff on my iPad then I don't want the paper-like thing on it. Then I can just put it off and then when I draw, I can put it back on. And what was really game-changing for me 'cause I hated doing sketch notes in the summer 'cause my hand always stuck to the iPad. Then I discovered the drawing gloves, they just go around your fingers down here. They've been a game changer. They are so cool. It's an analog tool that I use for digital work.MR: Interesting. Interesting. We have a few friends, Rob Dimeo, who was a huge fan. Michael Clayton, another friend used those gloves. I think I have one in my bag somewhere. I haven't used it for years. I think those were, at least for the iPad, more because I think the old iPad software was not great about determining if your finger was touching or if it was a pencil early on so you would end up getting stray marks in some apps. And so, this is a way to stop that. But it's got the second benefit is keeping your hand from sticking to the screen. Have you been using this magnetic screen cover and how does it work for you?KW: No, I don't have it yet. It's on my list. I thought it was really cool 'cause like I said, I never wanted to put a permanent screen protector on it. I'm getting it this month, hopefully.MR: Okay. I would say Paperlike was a past sponsor of the show, but regardless of that, I like them because I think the way they structure it is the little bumps that they're creating to create that paper-like surface, they're scientifically placing them. I've been actually pretty surprised when I use my iPad that it doesn't seem to impact when the screen is playing, like for tv. You might be surprised how clear it actually is. It'd be really interesting for you to try both then magnetic and the Paperlike and compare them and see. My concern about the magnetic one would be if it's kind of floppy and there's air between there, how does that react? Maybe that's not an issue, but that would be what I would wonder about. Maybe you could share that in a sketch note for us or a video or something.KW: Yeah. I'll do that once I've tried it out, but it's also really cool. I've never had the chance to talk about Paperlike to anyone. It's really cool that you didn't have the impression it ruined the other things you do in the iPad. I was always afraid of that and that's why I didn't wanna buy it. But I might give it a go.MR: All right. Maybe I'll reach out to my friends at Paperlike, and say, "Here's a person who needs a sample."KW: Oh yeah, I would appreciate that.MR: They like doing that stuff. They're really great people at Paperlike. It's a German-based company as well, so.KW: Ah, I didn't know thatMR: They're in Hamburg, so, you know, they could just run a little truck down and drop it off at your place.KW: Really cool. Cool. I'll write the review then.MR: Okay. There you go. Well, we'll work on that offline. Okay. Well, simple tools. I like simple tools. I like buying my tool at the corner drug store. Keeps things real. Analog. So, it makes it easy to replace things when you're in another country as well. You can probably find a gel pen someplace. So, let's shift now. This part is where we talk about tips. And we'd like to frame it as someone's listening, as a visual thinker, whatever that means to them. Maybe they feel like they've sort of reached a plateau where they're a little bit burned out or they need a little inspiration from you. What would be three things you would tell that person to kind of inspire them and get them moving forward again?KW: I would say the first thing is pick a project you're really excited about. I always also say for me, I do a lot of visualization of podcasts, live talks, reports, anything like that, and I need to be excited about the source material 'cause I find especially with freelancing where you don't always can influence what the topic is about or whatever, that really helps. I don't do any work anymore where I'm like, "Oh, this is really uninteresting and I don't wanna be drawing this." And then also, if you're not working of source material, maybe like do the travel sketchnotes. Like Eva-Lotta Lamm did. Pick something, pick a personal project.I would say this was a huge learning curve for me, that I only enjoy sketchnoting when the topic is right. And what I draw about really aligns with my interests and with my passions. And then the next one, it sounds so cliche, Mike, but I think it's so important don't compare yourself to others. Full stop. I know there's like a comparison is to thief of joy or something. But I think it's really true. I have a really basic and minimalist style and when I look at your work or at Nadine Rossa's work, I think she was on your podcast. I always get, I'm like, oh my God, I have such a long way to go and it's my work even good enough.But the validation I got from the outside well tells me it is good enough. There are people who appreciate your minimalist style that's not super visually complex and doesn't have all the really sophisticated doodles and everything. I've come to accept that, I think. And also, I try to stay in my line. I don't look at the work of others so much. if I do that, I set a certain timeframe where I look at your work and then I get some inspiration, but then I leave it at that. I know it's harsh, but maybe that even means unfollowing a few people on social media and only looking at the profiles like, I don't know, once a month or something.I think all you learn basically to not compare yourself to others, but I think it takes some time to learn that. And then also, also sounds a bit cliche, but don't overcomplicate things. Don't overcomplicate sketchnoting. I think that's also in your book. A sketch note doesn't have to be visually complex. And for me, for example, that means if I don't wanna drop people, I don't draw people 'cause I don't. Maybe I don't like the style of it or maybe I haven't put enough practice into it. Well, then I don't draw people.I don't have to do everything that the sketchnote community says that I need to do and how a sketchnote is supposed to look like, you know? "Cause I have quite a minimalist style and I like it that way and maybe at some point it gets more sophisticated or maybe it doesn't, I don't know. I would say those are my three things. Oh, and can I do a fourth one?MR: Yes, you can.KW: Don't overvalue talent. People on LinkedIn, they always tell me you're so talented. And it gets me really angry 'cause sketchnoting is basically you put in the work and the practice and then you get better. It's like running or playing an instrument. It has nothing to do with talent. If you look at my early drawings and when I started practicing with your book, it didn't look great. Don't overvalue talent. There's no talent. Everybody can learn sketchnoting. I would print this on a t-shirt. There you go.MR: I love it. Four is great. And we love it when people give us extra ones, so that's pretty cool.KW: Four is my lucky number.MR: There we go. I think in Asia, isn't four a lucky number? I'm not sure.KW: I don't know. I was born on the fourth, so yeah, that's why—MR: I think actually in Japan, four is unlucky if I remember right. I know this because I was an old PalmPilot guy back in the day. Palm did not release a Palm IV because it was popular in Japan and four, I think it's related to death or something like that. So that's why they jumped from the III to the V.KW: Oh, no. No, with us It's a lucky number.MR: It's a lucky number. I think so. We make our own luck, right?KW: Yeah.MR: So Katrin, what is the best way for us to reach out to you? Obviously, LinkedIn would be good.KW: LinkedIn is great. It's basically Katrin Wietek on LinkedIn. I have this website that I created in university, but I don't maintain it so much. But that's Katrin-kristin.com, I think. Also, that's the same Instagram handle, @katrin.kristin, I think. I don't post so often, but maybe that might change in the future. That's basically the three channels where you can find me online.MR: Primarily, it sounds like LinkedIn is the best place. Obviously, you're pretty active there. So that's, if you wanna see your work and connect there, that would be the place to go. So that's really great.KW: Exactly.MR: Well, this has been really wonderful. Time has flown by. It's been such a fun discussion with you and thank you so much for the work you do and your attitude and how you share your work, and really an ambassador for Sketchnoting in the LinkedIn world probably more than anyone that I can think of. I really appreciate that. And it's so good to see someone representing and having such a positive attitude for the community. I think you're just a great ambassador for us.KW: Well, thank you for inventing sketchnotes, Mike, and thank you for writing that book, because otherwise I wouldn't be here and I definitely wouldn't be at that point in my career. I'm pretty sure about that. And it was an honor to be on your podcast. Thank you so much for the invitation. I'm super proud of where I got along the way. And I'm gonna share the podcast with all the people I know and also posted on LinkedIn, so maybe a few people can see it.MR: Well, for your first podcast in English, you did an excellent job. You're a really great conversationalist.KW: Thank you.MR: Be very proud of that. You did a great job. And maybe I'll send this to people as a guide, if they're on the show, to listen to you.KW: This means a lot. Thank you so much.MR: Well, for everyone who's listening or watching, this is another episode of the "Sketchnote Army Podcast." Until next episode, we will talk to you soon.

You probably need new ideas consistently in order to do your job. Where do they come from? If you're like many people, you push pixels, midlessly scroll, or stare at the problem or just hope that you have a breakthrough before time runs out. What if there's a better way?On this episode, I share a technique I use called "nonsense notebooks". I use freewriting and review to connect patterns that I often miss because I'm simply too busy.Then, I interview Mike Rohde on the 10th anniversary of his book The Sketchnote Handbook to discuss how sketching ideas can lead to breakthroughs, even if you're not an artist. Mentioned in this episode:This episode is sponsored by ShopifyIt's your turn to get serious about selling and try Shopify today. Visit Shopify.com/accidentalcreative for your $1/month trial today.

In this final episode of The Sketchnote Army Podcast season 12, we've gathered all the tips from 9 fantastic visual thinkers to inspire you!Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook's 10th BirthdaySave 50% when you buy any two of the The Sketchnote Handbook, The Sketchnote Workbook, or The Sketchnote Handbook Video together with discount code HAPPY10.For details on the offer, visit:rohdesign.com/happy10Offer ends December 31, 2022.Sponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by:Concepts: an infinite, flexible creative tool for all your good ideas. Available on iOS, Windows and Android.The new Concepts 6 for iOS has exciting new features, including a modernized canvas interface, a freshly structured, easier to use gallery that integrates with the iOS Files app, and RGB and HSL color options added to its already extensive Copic color palettes.Concept's infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Draw and take notes with liquid pens, markers and brushes in your favorite colors.Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size — with simple gestures. Drag+drop images onto the canvas, and use layers and grids to organize your creative space. When you're ready to share, export straight to your friends or team.SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroHermen Lutje BerenbroekTanvi AgarwalJude PullenNatalia TalkowskaDavid NealKate RutterTim MayRaven HendersonSathyaOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Hermen's ArtifizerTavi's Silly StrokesJude's SiteNatalka DesignDavid Neal's WebsiteKate Rutter's siteTim on InstagramRaven's WebsiteSathya on Twitter1. Hermen's TipsTrust the power of the human brain.Embrace your mistakes!Draw your conversations for better understanding2. Tanvi's TipsFocus on the thinking and execution of your visualizationsConsume a lot of good content, observe and learn because your mind-shift from good content impacts your styleInvest in yourself!3. Jude's TipsMake your brain engage in the environment and challenge yourself to sketch on objectsDraw for someone not in your world: your momLearn to sketch upside-down to stay in flow as you sketch for someone else4. Natalia's TipsTalk to other people, especially outside of your areaDo something else to break out of your old ways: course, approach, etc.Believe who you and and this is what you do5. David's TipsFind some way to make visualization a regular thing - practiceKeep at your practice, don't give up!Forgive yourself when your work is not as great as you want it to beChallenge yourself to develop your own way to create things6. Kate's TipsDraw until the pen runs dry3 Times a CharmTalk with someone about their work and share yours, asking “why”7. Tim's TipsBelieve in the value of sketchy work for collaborationDon't put pressure on yourself to make drawings beautifulTake a class in something new that you don't know about8. Raven's TipsDo a challenge like Inktober with promptsGo smaller, like with sticky notes!Listen to others for good ideas9. Sathya's TipsHave a craftsman's mindsetBe a great fan of things you love and want to recreateCopy then master it and make it your ownBuild in publicCreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde's bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

Information designer Sathya shares how he began creating visual remixes during the pandemic which has been a big part of his work along with teaching others create visual remixes themselves.Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook's 10th BirthdaySave 50% when you buy any two of the The Sketchnote Handbook, The Sketchnote Workbook, or The Sketchnote Handbook Video together with discount code HAPPY10.For details on the offer, visit:rohdesign.com/happy10Offer ends December 31, 2022.Sponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by:Concepts: an infinite, flexible creative tool for all your good ideas. Available on iOS, Windows and Android.The new Concepts 6 for iOS has exciting new features, including a modernized canvas interface, a freshly structured, easier to use gallery that integrates with the iOS Files app, and RGB and HSL color options added to its already extensive Copic color palettes.Concept's infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Draw and take notes with liquid pens, markers and brushes in your favorite colors.Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size — with simple gestures. Drag+drop images onto the canvas, and use layers and grids to organize your creative space. When you're ready to share, export straight to your friends or team.SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Sathya?Origin StorySathya's current workSponsor: Concepts appTipsToolsWhere to find SathyaOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Sathya on TwitterSathya on LinkedInTeach for IndiaVisualize ValueBook: Deep Work by Cal NewportBook: Decoding Greatness by Ron FriedmanBook: Scott McCloud's Understanding ComicsBook: Scott McCloud's Making ComicsJack ButcherCarl RichardsBiryaniToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Ruled NotebookBlue PenCanvaEvernoteNotionFigmaMuralMiroXMindTipsHave a craftsman's mindsetBe a great fan of things you love and want to recreateCopy then master it and make it your ownBuild in publicCreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde's bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

He's been a frequent guest not only on this podcast, but every podcast I've done in the past. This one is extra special because it's the 10th anniversary of the Sketchnote Handbook! Mike Rohde is a designer, teacher, and author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, co-creator of The Sketchnote Ideabook, founder of Sketchnote Army, and Illustrator of REWORK, REMOTE, and The $100 Startup.  In this episode, we have a delightful conversation talking about everything Sketchnote and allude to some of Mike's other successes over the past decade. We chat about where the Sketchnoting community has gone, what's happened with him, what he expected, what surprised him, and all things in between.  This episode was originally released as a live stream for Premium members of TimeCrafting Trust. Want to take partake in future live streams and much more? Sign up here! Links Worth Exploring Connect with Mike: Website | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn | Flickr Get The Sketchnote Handbook Get half-off two books with the code: HAPPY10  The Daily Plan Bar See all of Mike's Sketchnote products Check out Sketchnote Workshops here Related Conversation: The Bullet Journal Method with Ryder Carroll Related Blog Post: Why Paper Works Thanks to all of the sponsors of this episode. You can find all of the sponsors you heard me mention on this episode on our Podcast Sponsors page. Want to support the podcast? Beyond checking out our sponsors, you can subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Click on any of the links below to make that happen. Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | Stitcher You can also click on this link to paste the podcast feed into your podcast app of choice. Thanks again for listening to A Productive Conversation. See you later.

He's been a frequent guest not only on this podcast, but every podcast I've done in the past. This one is extra special because it's the 10th anniversary of the Sketchnote Handbook!Mike Rohde is a designer, teacher, and author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, co-creator of The Sketchnote Ideabook, founder of Sketchnote Army, and Illustrator of REWORK, REMOTE, and The $100 Startup. In this episode, we have a delightful conversation talking about everything Sketchnote and allude to some of Mike's other successes over the past decade. We chat about where the Sketchnoting community has gone, what's happened with him, what he expected, what surprised him, and all things in between. This episode was originally released as a live stream for Premium members of TimeCrafting Trust. Want to take partake in future live streams and much more? Sign up here!Links Worth Exploring Connect with Mike: Website | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn | Flickr Get The Sketchnote Handbook Get half-off two books with the code: HAPPY10  The Daily Plan Bar See all of Mike's Sketchnote products Check out Sketchnote Workshops here Related Conversation: The Bullet Journal Method with Ryder Carroll Related Blog Post: Why Paper Works Thanks to all of the sponsors of this episode. You can find all of the sponsors you heard me mention on this episode on our Podcast Sponsors page.Want to support the podcast? Beyond checking out our sponsors, you can subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Click on any of the links below to make that happen.Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Google Podcasts | StitcherYou can also click on this link to paste the podcast feed into your podcast app of choice.Thanks again for listening to A Productive Conversation. See you later.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, Raven Henderson shares how her experiences as an Army Brat prepared her to be adaptable in all sorts of situations, including visual challenges.Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook's 10th Birthday GiveawayPeachpit and Mike Rohde are giving away 10 prizes in The Sketchnote Handbook 10th Birthday Giveaway!Here are the prizes you could win:1 coaching session with me for 30-minutes3 signed 10th Birthday Edition Sketchnote Handbooks3 Sketchnote Ideabooks and Airship Autoquill Fineliner 6-Pack Pens3 Sketchnote Typeface full desktop licensesTo see all the details visit: rohdesign.com/giveawaySponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by:Concepts: an infinite, flexible creative tool for all your good ideas. Available on iOS, Windows and Android.The new Concepts 6 for iOS has exciting new features, including a modernized canvas interface, a freshly structured, easier to use gallery that integrates with the iOS Files app, and RGB and HSL color options added to its already extensive Copic color palettes.Concept's infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Draw and take notes with liquid pens, markers and brushes in your favorite colors.Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size — with simple gestures. Drag+drop images onto the canvas, and use layers and grids to organize your creative space. When you're ready to share, export straight to your friends or team.SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Raven?Origin StoryRaven's current workSponsor: Concepts appTipsToolsWhere to find RavenOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Raven's WebsiteRaven's Coaching SessionsRaven on InstagramSermon Sketchnote Facebook CommunityDoug Neill's Verbal to VisualThe Sketch EffectAlejo Porras InterviewWilliam Warren InterviewDoug Neill InterviewSearchieDesign RevivalBored PandaChristoph NiemannToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Telescoping Pencil CaseTombow PensFrixxion PensRocketbookiPad ProApple PencilProcreateTipsDo a challenge like Inktober with promptsGo smaller, like with sticky notes!Listen to others for good ideasCreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde's bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

In this episode, Tim May shares his journey from fine art into visualization, bringing a fine art sensibility to strategy, collaboration, and visualization with XPLANE.Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook's 10th Birthday GiveawayPeachpit and Mike Rohde are giving away 10 prizes in The Sketchnote Handbook 10th Birthday Giveaway!Here are the prizes you could win:1 coaching session with me for 30-minutes3 signed 10th Birthday Edition Sketchnote Handbooks3 Sketchnote Ideabooks and Airship Autoquill Fineliner 6-Pack Pens3 Sketchnote Typeface full desktop licensesTo see all the details visit: rohdesign.com/giveawaySponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by:Concepts: an infinite, flexible creative tool for all your good ideas. Available on iOS, Windows and Android.The new Concepts 6 for iOS has exciting new features, including a modernized canvas interface, a freshly structured, easier to use gallery that integrates with the iOS Files app, and RGB and HSL color options added to its already extensive Copic color palettes.Concept's infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Draw and take notes with liquid pens, markers and brushes in your favorite colors.Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size — with simple gestures.Drag+drop images onto the canvas, and use layers and grids to organize your creative space.When you're ready to share, export straight to your friends or team.SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Tim?Origin StoryTim's current workSponsor: Concepts appTipsToolsWhere to find TimOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.XPLANETim on TwitterTim on InstagramTim on LinkedInBen CrothersDave GraySketchnote Army Podcast Interview with Dave GrayMad Men Performing a Project Premortem Rock, Paper, ScissorsBook: GamestormingGamestorming WebsiteChoco TacoToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Sharpie King Size Permanent Marker, Chisel Tip, BlackPosca Paint MarkersSharpie Tank Style Highlighters, Chisel Tip3M 3x5 Sticky NotesWacom Cintiq Pro 16”Adobe IllustratoriPad ProApple PencilProcreateMURALTipsBelieve in the value of sketchy work for collaborationDon't put pressure on yourself to make drawings beautifulTake a class in something new that you don't know aboutCreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde's bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

In this episode, Kate Rutter talks about her path from user-centered design into visual thinking, sketchnotes, and during the pandemic — a call to get back into nature — to adopt nature journaling practice. Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook's 10th Birthday GiveawayPeachpit and Mike Rohde are giving away 10 prizes in The Sketchnote Handbook 10th Birthday Giveaway!Here are the prizes you could win:1 coaching session with me for 30-minutes3 signed 10th Birthday Edition Sketchnote Handbooks3 Sketchnote Ideabooks and Airship Autoquill Fineliner 6-Pack Pens3 Sketchnote Typeface full desktop licensesTo see all the details visit: rohdesign.com/giveawaySponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by:Concepts: an infinite, flexible creative tool for all your good ideas. Available on iOS, Windows and Android.The new Concepts 6 for iOS has exciting new features, including a modernized canvas interface, a freshly structured, easier to use gallery that integrates with the iOS Files app, and RGB and HSL color options added to its already extensive Copic color palettes.Concept's infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Draw and take notes with liquid pens, markers and brushes in your favorite colors.Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size — with simple gestures. Drag+drop images onto the canvas, and use layers and grids to organize your creative space. When you're ready to share, export straight to your friends or team.SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Kate?Origin StoryKate's current workSponsor: Concepts appTipsToolsWhere to find KateOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Kate Rutter's siteKate's Intelletto PodcastSketchnotes - SF Meetup GroupKate on TwitterKate on IntagramKate on LinkedInKate on YouTubeWild Wonder Nature Journaling ConferenceJohn “Jack” Muir Laws on Sketchnote Army PodcastHow to get started Nature Journaling video workshopKate's sketchnote of soilToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Uniball Vision MicroTombow FudinosukeZebra Midliner in GrayLamy SafariArt Toolkit Watercolor PaintboxesWater BrushCutoff sock for nature journalingAcornWrite in the Rain Waterproof NotebookTombow Water-Based MarkersTipsDraw until the pen runs dry3 Times a CharmTalk with someone about their work and share yours, asking “why”CreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde's bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

In this episode, David Neal, known as ReverentGeek on social media shares how a software developer like him became a tech speaker, educator, illustrator, and sketchnoter. You'll enjoy this fun interview!Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook's 10th Birthday GiveawayPeachpit and Mike Rohde are giving away 10 prizes in The Sketchnote Handbook 10th Birthday Giveaway!Here are the prizes you could win:1 coaching session with me for 30-minutes3 signed 10th Birthday Edition Sketchnote Handbooks3 Sketchnote Ideabooks and Airship Autoquill Fineliner 6-Pack Pens3 Sketchnote Typeface full desktop licensesTo see all the details visit: rohdesign.com/giveawaySponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by:Concepts: an infinite, flexible creative tool for all your good ideas. Available on iOS, Windows and Android.The new Concepts 6 for iOS has exciting new features, including a modernized canvas interface, a freshly structured, easier to use gallery that integrates with the iOS Files app, and RGB and HSL color options added to its already extensive Copic color palettes.Concept's infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Draw and take notes with liquid pens, markers and brushes in your favorite colors.Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size — with simple gestures.Drag+drop images onto the canvas, and use layers and grids to organize your creative space.When you're ready to share, export straight to your friends or team.SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroWelcomeWho is David?Origin StoryDavid's current workSponsor: Concepts appTipsToolsWhere to find DavidOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.David Neal's WebsiteDavid's Avatar Icon ServiceDavid's Illustrated Dad Jokes BookDavid on LinkedInDavid on TwitterDavid on InstagramShow and Tell with Dan Roam - Talks at GoogleREWORKXKCDAn Illustrated Guide to OAuth and OpenID ConnectMike's Avatar drawn by DavidPluralsightTipsFind some way to make visualization a regular thing - practiceKeep at your practice, don't give up!Forgive yourself when your work is not as great as you want it to beChallenge yourself to develop your own way to create thingsToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.iPadApple PencilProcreateConceptsAffinity DesignerPilot Precise V5 Extra FineSharpiesCreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde's bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

In this special 10th birthday episode for The Sketchnote Handbook, Michael Clayton talks with Mike about 10 years of the book with questions from the community. In the second part of this episode, Nikki McDonald, Mike's editor on the Handbook project, talks with Mike about the making of the book and their impressions looking a decade ago.Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook's 10th Birthday GiveawayPeachpit and Mike Rohde are giving away 10 prizes in The Sketchnote Handbook 10th Birthday Giveaway!It's easy to enter the giveaway**:Follow @Peachpit and @rohdesign on TwitterRetweet at least one Sketchnote 10th Birthday post from @Peachpit or @rohdesign between November 1-30, 2022.Here are the prizes you could win:1 coaching session with me for 30-minutes3 signed 10th Birthday Edition Sketchnote Handbooks3 Sketchnote Ideabooks and Airship Autoquill Fineliner 6-Pack Pens3 Sketchnote Typeface full desktop licensesTo see all the details! visit rohdesign.com/giveaway**Giveaway contest open to US participants only, age 18 and older. Entries must be received by 11:59pm EST November 30, 2022. Winners will be notified via an announcement on this page on Rohdesign.com on or before December 5, 2022 and will need to contact Mike Rohde with a valid email and U.S. mailing address for prize fulfillment within seven (7) days of announcement. Read Official Rules (https://peachpit.com/promotions/sketchnote-handbook-10th-birthday-sweepstakes-official-142454)Sponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by:Concepts: an infinite, flexible creative tool for all your good ideas. Available on iOS, Windows and Android.The new Concepts 6 for iOS has exciting new features, including a modernized canvas interface, a freshly structured, easier to use gallery that integrates with the iOS Files app, and RGB and HSL color options added to its already extensive Copic color palettes.Concept's infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Draw and take notes with liquid pens, markers and brushes in your favorite colors.Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size — with simple gestures.Drag+drop images onto the canvas, and use layers and grids to organize your creative space.When you're ready to share, export straight to your friends or team.SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroMichael Clayton asks Mike Rohde questions from the communitySponsor: Concepts appNikki McDonald & Mike Rohde talk about the making of the bookOutroLinks: Part 1Amazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.The Sketchnote HandbookPeachpitProf ClaytonMike Clayton & Mike Rohde's First Lunch MeetupMilwaukee Public MarketPatrick Rhone on Sketchnote Army PodcastVon GlitschkaLinkedIn LearningBrian ArtkaGabe WollenburgThe Sketchnote Handbook: Video 9: Sketchnote from Start to FinishJessica EschThe Official Permission to Suck at Drawing CertificatePaul SoupisetThe Sketchnote Handbook in ChineseThe Sketchnote Handbook in GermanThe Sketchnote Handbook in RussianMike's Prague Visit in 2015Mauro ToselliEva-Lotta Lamm: The joy of doing ‘ugly' sketchnotesLinks: Part 2Nikki McDonaldThe Sketchnote Handbook Press Kit on FlickrRohdesign Book Blog: IntroRohdesign Book Blog: Update 1Rohdesign Book Blog: Update 2Rohdesign Book Blog: Video OuttakesRohdesign Book Blog: Update 3Rohdesign Book Blog: Update 4Rohdesign Book Blog: Update 5Rohdesign Book Blog: Update 6Rohdesign Book Blog: Update 7Rohdesign Book Blog: Update 8Rohdesign Book Blog: Update 9Rohdesign Book Blog: Update 10Rohdesign Book Blog: Update 11Rohdesign Book Blog: Update 12Rohdesign Book Blog: Book LaunchRohdesign Book Blog: Update 13Rohdesign Book Blog: Update 14Rohdesign Book Blog: Update 15The Sketchnote PodcastThe Sketchnote Handbook Texas TourCreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde's bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

In this episode, Natalia Talkowska, visual communicator and founder of Natalka Design. She shares how she left a small town in Poland, landed in London, started a solo visual practice, and has grown that business into a team of fifty people.This inspiring discussion with Natalia is one you won't want to miss!Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook's 10th BirthdaySave 50% when you buy any two of the The Sketchnote Handbook, The Sketchnote Workbook, or The Sketchnote Handbook Video together with discount code HAPPY10.For details on the offer, visit:rohdesign.com/happy10Offer ends December 31, 2022.Sponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by:Concepts: an infinite, flexible creative tool for all your good ideas. Available on iOS, Windows and Android.The new Concepts 6 for iOS has exciting new features, including a modernized canvas interface, a freshly structured, easier to use gallery that integrates with the iOS Files app, and RGB and HSL color options added to its already extensive Copic color palettes.Concepts' infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Draw and take notes with liquid pens, markers and brushes in your favorite colors.Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size — with simple gestures.Drag+drop images onto the canvas, and use layers and grids to organize your creative space.When you're ready to share, export straight to your friends or team.SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Natalia?Origin StoryNatalia's current workSponsor: Concepts appToolsTipsWhere to find NataliaOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Natalia on LinkedInNatalia on TwitterNatalka DesignNatalka Design on InstagramDoodledooDoodle MapsGeorge BerlinVestaboardToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Traveler's NotebookStaedtler Pigment LinersSakura Pigma MBPentel Arts Color Pen, Fine Point ColorsAdobe CS SuiteProcreateAdobe FrescoWacom TabletMicrosoft Surface StudioReMarkableTipsTalk to other people, especially outside of your areaDo something else to break out of your old ways: course, approach, etc.Believe who you and and this is what you doCreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde's bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

In this episode, I talk with Jude Pullen, an independent creative technologist who works with partners to make cutting edge tech simple and adapt old tech in interesting ways.We talk about Jude's sketching and visualization that helps him explore spaces he works in, filter details, and to communicate with clients and colleagues to create cohesive solutions as a team. Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook's 10th BirthdaySave 50% when you buy any two of the The Sketchnote Handbook, The Sketchnote Workbook, or The Sketchnote Handbook Video together with discount code HAPPY10.For details on the offer, visit:rohdesign.com/happy10Offer ends December 31, 2022.Sponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by Concepts. An infinite canvas sketching app built for tablets with a stylus, like the iPad Pro, Microsoft Surface, and Samsung Galaxy Tab.Concepts' infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size with a simple gesture. SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Jude?Origin StoryJude's current workHow sketching is part of Jude's workThe value of storyboards in Jude's work Sponsor: Concepts appToolsTipsWhere to find JudeOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Jude's SiteJude on instagramJude on TwitterJude on LinkedInJude's Design Modeling WebsiteGoats Vs Llamas - a Crazy Monumental 3D Board Game With 3D PrintingSugruLEGOJude's BBC TV Show: Big Life FixJude's TedX Talk “Why Creativity Loves Uncertainty”Canary Air Quality Sensor - Part 1Canary Air Quality Sensor - Part 2Radio GlobeBook: Designs and Sketches for elBulli by Luke HuberBook: Understanding Comics by Scott McCloudBook: Abstract City by Christoph NiemannThomas HeatherwickToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Whiteboarding skillsCardboard modeling skillsBuild with found objectsTipsMake your brain engage in the environment and challenge yourself to sketch on objectsDraw for someone not in your world: your momLearn to sketch upside-down to stay in flow as you sketch for someone elseCreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde's bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

In this episode, I talk with Tanvi Agarwal about her winding career journey: from engineering to graphic design and then into visual thinking and illustration. Now she draws for a living, helping firms with visualizations. She shares her insights on following her interests to success and how her engineering and graphic design knowledge gives her an edge in her visual thinking.Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook's 10th BirthdaySave 50% when you buy any two of the The Sketchnote Handbook, The Sketchnote Workbook, or The Sketchnote Handbook Video together with discount code HAPPY10.For details on the offer, visit:rohdesign.com/happy10Offer ends December 31, 2022.Sponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by Concepts. An infinite canvas sketching app built for tablets with a stylus, like the iPad Pro, Microsoft Surface, and Samsung Galaxy Tab.Concepts' infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size with a simple gesture. SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Tanvi?Origin StoryTanvi's current workHer mindset change that helped her grow her businessSponsor: Concepts appToolsTipsWhere to find TanviOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Tavi's Silly StrokesTanvi's Draw Your Thoughts CohortTanvi on InstagramTanvi on LinkedInTanvi on YouTubeTanvi on FacebookTanvi on TwitterToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.Uni-ball Eye Micro Ub-150 Gel Ink PenNotebook with heavy 150 to 200gsm paper in off-whiteProcreateConceptsTipsFocus on the thinking and execution of your visualizationsConsume a lot of good content, observe and learn because your mind-shift from good content impacts your styleInvest in yourself!CreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde's bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

In this first episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast season 12, I talk with Hermen Lutje Berenbroek, a design strategist and visual thinker from the Netherlands. Hermen shares how he helps people understand complex information and how being an outsider often gives him the power to listen intently, draw what people are really thinking, and ask questions insiders might be afraid to ask.He also goes into detail about the process of creating his new visual thinking course with Domestika designed to reach people around the world right where they're at.Presented by The Sketchnote Handbook's 10th BirthdaySave 50% when you buy any two of the The Sketchnote Handbook, The Sketchnote Workbook, or The Sketchnote Handbook Video together with discount code HAPPY10.For details on the offer, visit:rohdesign.com/happy10Offer ends December 31, 2022.Sponsored by ConceptsThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by Concepts. An infinite canvas sketching app built for tablets with a stylus, like the iPad Pro, Microsoft Surface, and Samsung Galaxy Tab.Concepts' infinite canvas lets you spread out and sketch in any direction. Everything you draw in Concepts is a flexible vector, so you can move your notes around the canvas, or change their color, tool or size with a simple gesture. SEARCH ”Concepts” in your favorite app store for infinite, flexible sketching.Learn more: Concepts AppRunning OrderIntroWelcomeWho is Hermen?Origin StoryHermen's Domestika CourseSponsor: Concepts appToolsTipsWhere to find HermenOutroLinksAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.ArtifizerHermen's Online Course: Visual Thinking with a special listener 15% off code, valid until Oct. 25: HERMEN-INKTOBERHermen on InstagramHermen on LinkedInHermen on TwitterToolsAmazon affiliate links support the Sketchnote Army Podcast.3M Post-It NotesNeuland MarkersTraveler's NotebookProcreateNotabilityMuralMiroFlipaClipTipsTrust the power of the human brain.Embrace your mistakes!Draw your conversations for better understandingCreditsProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSubscribe to the Sketchnote Army PodcastYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.Support the PodcastTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde's bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

Hey, It's Mike Rohde, and I'm here to announce season 12 of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is launching on Tuesday, October 4th, 2022.This season we're featuring 9 amazing visual thinkers:Hermen Lutje BerenbroekTanvi AgarwalJude PullenNatalia TalkowskaDavid NealKate RutterTim MayRaven HendersonSathyaYou are going to love every interview!Special thanks to our sponsors: Concepts, the infinite canvas sketching app and The Sketchnote Handbook's 10th Birthday at Peachpit.com.Watch this space on Tuesday, October 4th for episode 1!

Mike Rohde is a designer, teacher, and illustrator — but you're more likely familiar with his work in sketchnoting. Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook, which popularized the practice, and the founder of the Sketchnote Army, a showcase of sketchnoters and their work. He's been described as “one of the leaders of the visual thinking revolution.” In this conversation, we discuss how Mike's approach to visual note-taking has influenced his work.Show notesMike Rohderohdesign.comThe Rohdesign Dispatch (Mike's newsletter)Mike Rohde on LinkedIn@rohdesign on Instagram@rohdesign on TwitterThe Sketchnote Handbook: The Illustrated Guide to Visual Note Taking by Mike RohdeThe Sketchnote Workbook: Advanced Techniques for Taking Visual Notes You Can Use Anywhere by Mike RohdeThe Sketchnote ArmyThe Sketchnote Army podcastAdobe PageMillLiminal Thinking: Create the Change You Want by Changing the Way You Think by Dave GrayBullet JournalRyder CarrollUlyssesMarkdownZettelkastenThe Pen Is Mightier Than the Keyboard: Advantages of Longhand Over Laptop Note Taking by Pam A. Mueller and Daniel M. Oppenheimer (PDF)Show notes include Amazon affiliate links. I get a small commission for purchases made through these links.

What do all of these things have in common:  designer, author,  teacher, illustrator, creator?  One answer: Mike Rohde.  Another answer: visual thinking.  If you don't know what visual thinking is, or don't think you are a visual person, Mike has made it his mission to convince you--and me--that we all are visual thinkers!  He even created a new way of taking notes, called Sketchnoting, that combines words and drawings and already has tens of thousands of converts.  This episode covers:description of a visual thinker (01:13)definition of sketchnoting and possible templates (03:57)examples of Mike sketchnoting meals (at Chez Panisse) and travel experiences (Washington, DC and Alaska) (14:31)why listening is a secret weapon of sketchnoting (18:49)how Mike approaches illustrating books (21:06)how it feels to see others using the technique he created (29:37)when is a good age for kids to start learning sketchnoting (30:53)possible future of sketchnoting (35:04)... and why Mike once considered giving people just starting out a "diploma" saying, "You have the permission to suck at sketchnoting"!As promised in the episode, here are links to some of Mike's sketchnotes:from his meal at Chez Panisse: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rohdesign/albums/72157624361290783from his trip to Washington, DC: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rohdesign/albums/72157626454253117additional images: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rohdesign/making of The Sketchnote Handbook: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rohdesign/albums/72157629385456752It's always the right time to try something new, and Mike says we are all up to the task!Want to know more about Mike?go to his website: rohdesign.comfollow him on Instagram: rohdesignfind him on Twitter: twitter.com/rohdesignlink up with him on LinkedIn: mikerohdewatch his YouTube channel:  https://youtube.com/channel/UCe1elri6WQzEOc7tD18EZOginformation about The Sketchnote Handbook:  https://rohdesign.com/handbookinformation about The Sketchnote Workbook: https://rohdesign.com/workbookinformation about The Sketchnote Ideabook: https://sketchnoteideabook.com/Want to know more about The Experience Podcast?Sign up to be on our Insiders' List to receive our newsletters and insiders' information! Go to theexperiencepodcast.net (sign-ups are at the bottom of the page)Follow us on social media:InstagramFacebookTwitterLinkedIn

Educator and visual note-taker extrodinair, Giulia Forsythe joined me to talk about how doodling helps her be a better listener, problem solver and communicator. She also explains why she shares her doodles openly and freely. Check out Giulia's amazing doodles on her web site https://gforsythe.ca/visual-notes/ and her Flickr account https://www.flickr.com/photos/gforsythe/albumsFor more on visual note taking, see these resources that Giulia shared:Sketchnote Handbook is a great physical book to reference.Mike Rhodes has a few video webinars online so something like this might be just as good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZZq5W8FY2AAlso wonderful is Dave Gray's Visual Thinking Basics page (http://www.xplaner.com/2012/12/07/visual-thinking-basics/)

Mike Rohde is a designer, teacher and illustrator with a passion for visualizing ideas and teaching people how to think visually and be more creative.INTERESTED IN TAKING VISUAL NOTES?Buy the best selling Sketchnote Handbook and learn how to incorporate sketch noting techniques into your note-taking process regardless of your artistic abilities - https://rohdesign.com/handbookCONNECT WITH MIKE ROHDEYoutube - https://www.youtube.com/c/MikeRohde Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/rohdesign/ Twitter - https://twitter.com/rohdesign LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikerohde/CONNECT WITH MELinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayneil Twitter - https://twitter.com/jayneildalal 

This episode of Ask The Expert was originally recorded live on September, 3rd, 2020  When was the last time you picked up a pen or pencil to draw something? Maybe eighth grade? On this month's episode, Nora talked with Mike Rohde, noted sketchnoter and author of “The Sketchnote Handbook” series, about the craft of capturing experiences with visuals and words combined. Experiences expressed as sketchnotes are not limited to those experienced in the office but can include a meal in a restaurant or during a church service. In his talk with Nora, Mike talks about how he started sketchnoting (without knowing the word for it), how he wrote the “The Sketchnote Handbook”, and his methods for teaching it.  To see Nora's entire conversation with Mike Rohde or to see our Visual Strategist's capture, go to ImageThink.net/events If you're interested in his work or would to connect with Mike, please follow him at rohdesign.com. This session was recorded on LinkedIn Live, and questions were submitted through the chat and emailed to ImageThink at ask@imagethink.net  Are you ready to captivate attendees and elevate your virtual meetings? Go to imagethink.net/ contact so we can start helping you picture your big ideas. 

01:07 - Marlena’s Superpower: Bringing the Arts to Tech * Coming Into Tech as a Creative 04:42 - Parallels Between Art and Computer Science/Software Engineering * System Architecture * Spatial Thinking & Representation * Mind in Motion: How Action Shapes Thought by Barbara Tversky (https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Motion-Action-Shapes-Thought/dp/046509306X) * Metaphors We Live By by George Lakoff & Mark Johnson (https://www.amazon.com/Metaphors-We-Live-George-Lakoff/dp/0226468011) 09:33 - Sketchnoting and Zines * The Sketchnote Handbook: The Illustrated Guide to Visual Note Taking by Mike Rohde (https://www.amazon.com/Sketchnote-Handbook-illustrated-visual-taking/dp/0321857895/ref=asc_df_0321857895/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312021252609&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6623941144735025539&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9006718&hvtargid=pla-454389960652&psc=1) 14:19 - DIY Publishing and Physicality – The Power of Print * The Pamphlet Wars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamphlet_wars) 20:33 - Zines at Work & Zines in Professional Settings * Slowing Down Our Thought Processes * Using Diagrams to Ask Questions & For Exploration * Graphic Facilitators 31:11 - Target Audiences, Codeswitching, & People Are Not Robots 37:58 - How We View, Study, and Treat Liberal Arts – (Not Well!) * Formulating Thoughts In A Way That’s Available For Consumption 43:01 - Using Diagrams and Images * UML (Unified Modeling Language) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Modeling_Language) * Collaborative Whiteboarding Software and Shared Visual Language (Drawing Together) 50:41 - Handwriting Advice: Decolonize Your Mind! * SLOW DOWN * Write Larger * Practice * How to Do Nothing: Resisting the Attention Economy by Jenny Odell (https://www.amazon.com/How-Do-Nothing-Resisting-Attention/dp/1612197493) 59:45 - The “Let’s Sketch Tech!” (https://appearworks.com/) Conference * Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/letssketchtech?fan_landing=true) * Podcast (https://anchor.fm/appearworks) * Newsletter (https://appearworks.activehosted.com/f/7) Reflections: Damien: Decolonize your mind. Jamey: Zine fairs at work and valuing yourself by taking up space. Rein: Creativity is good for individuals to explore, but when we share it with people it’s a way we can become closer. Marlena: Connecting arts and technology. This episode was brought to you by @therubyrep (https://twitter.com/therubyrep) of DevReps, LLC (http://www.devreps.com/). To pledge your support and to join our awesome Slack community, visit patreon.com/greaterthancode (https://www.patreon.com/greaterthancode) To make a one-time donation so that we can continue to bring you more content and transcripts like this, please do so at paypal.me/devreps (https://www.paypal.me/devreps). You will also get an invitation to our Slack community this way as well. Transcript: JAMEY: Hello, everyone and welcome to Episode 236 of Greater Than Code. I’m one of your hosts, Jamey Hampton, and I’m here with my friend, Rein Henrichs. REIN: Thanks, Jamey. And I’m another one of your hosts and I’m here with my friend, Damien Burke DAMIEN: Thanks, Rein. And I'm here in addition to with the host, our guest today, Marlena Compton. Marlena Compton is a tech community organizer, designer, and collaboration artist who has worked in the tech industry for 18 years. She grows tech communities and organizes conferences such as “Pear Conf” and “Let’s Sketch Tech!” Marlena has worked for companies like IBM and Atlassian. This has left her with a life-long appreciation for quality code, empathy, and working together as a team. When she isn’t working, Marlena enjoys lettering, calligraphy, and walking her dog. Welcome to the show, Marlena. MARLENA: Hi, thank you so much. DAMIEN: So I know you're prepared for this. Same thing we do for all of our guests, we're going to start with the first question. What is your superpower and how did you acquire it? MARLENA: Yeah, so my superpower is bringing the arts to tech and that is teaching people the value of creative arts—such as writing, sketching, music, and more—and how this relates to the tech industry, helping creative types feel more at home in tech, and helping folks who are mostly in the science track in school learn why they need the creative arts for critical thinking and thinking through problems. So it's like, you have to give people a space to do this learning from a peer perspective versus top-down perspective. This includes building community for folks to explore these things. JAMEY: So you came to tech from art previously, is that right? MARLENA: I have a wild academic background of interdisciplinary studies, which will not get you a job for anything but like, renting a car. [laughter] Or whatever and also, later I did computer science, but while I was getting my liberal arts degree, I did a lot of art history, a lot of painting, and a lot of theater. JAMEY: I wonder if you could speak to coming into the tech industry as someone who is already an artist and considers themselves an artist, like, how that translated for you. Like, what skills from being an artist, do you think were helpful to you as you were starting in tech? MARLENA: Sure. So I think that if you know that you're an artistic type, like I knew how important arts were for me. But I think for children often they get a lot of pressure to find something that will get them a job and it's not like this isn't for good reason, it's like we’ve got to be able to pay our bills. On the other hand, when you're a creative type, it's such a core part of your personality. You can't really separate it from anything and if you try to just tamp it down, it's going to come out somehow. So I was this college graduate and I was having a really hard time getting a job and figuring out what I wanted to do that would make enough money to support me. Computer science was literally the last thing I tried and I seem to do okay at it so I kept doing it. [laughs] And that's how I got into it. I wish that we had bootcamps when I started learning computer science, but there weren't any and so, all I could do was go back to community college. So I went to community college. I had to take every single math class over again. Calculus, I had to take three times, but I stuck with it. I didn't know if I could do it, but I kept taking the classes and eventually, it worked. So [laughs] that's how I got into the tech industry and it's like, it's totally okay to do this just to make money. That's why I did it. DAMIEN: So then coming in with this art background, which seems really broad and you didn't talk about anything specific, what insights and connections were you able to make between art and computer science, and art and software engineering? MARLENA: Sure. So for me, building software is a creative process. In fact, this is something I've believed for a very long time, because as soon as I got out with my newly-minted CS degree and I knew that I needed to create, draw, write, and do all of those things. Eventually, I started looking around for okay, what in computer science is kind of more visual place and it used to be people would think of diagramming software, HoloVizio, Rational Rose, which is that is quite a throwback. Who here –? DAMIEN: UML. MARLENA: [laughs] That UML, yes! I would look at these things, like system architect, where it's like the idea was that you could literally draw out pieces and then it would make your code, which was [laughs] I think an epic fail if you look at it from, did it actually ever write successful code? I have never – REIN: There's another option, which was the expense of architects draw the boxes and then the chief engineer put the code in the boxes. MARLENA: Well, but see, you need a brain in there and this is all about the brain. [laughter] MARLENA: Yeah. I think one transformation that my thinking had to go through so, I had to go from this computer science perspective of find a way to chop up all your thoughts into little, discreet, logical pieces so that you can make classes, objects, and things like that and instead look at the brain as an organ in your body. We take more of a holistic perspective where it is your brain is connected to your thoughts is connected to like your internal axes, GPS system, and mapping system and how all of that comes together to problem solve. REIN: Yeah. I love it. Without bodies, we couldn't think about things MARLENA: Indeed. This past year, I've spent a lot of time specifically investigating this connection. One of the things I did was read Barbara Tversky's book, Mind in Motion, and the premise of her book is that spatial thinking is the foundation of abstract thought. That is how you orient yourself in the world and how you perceive a space around you and yourself in that space is what allows you to organize ideas, take perspectives that are based in imagination, and things like that. REIN: Yeah, and this ties into Wyckoff's work on basic metaphors because basic metaphors are how we structure our thought, but they're all about the world. So thinking about the metaphor of containment, you have a thing, it has an inside and an outside, there may be a portal that gets you from the inside to the outside. So this is how houses work, right? This is how we think about houses. This is also how we think about relationships. It's how we think about code. And then there's you combine that basic metaphor with the metaphor of traveling; starting at a place, traveling along a path, ending up at another place. You put those two metaphors together, you can have complex thoughts about achieving goals. But these are all metaphors based on, like you're saying, our perception of living in a world that has 3D space. Yes, and maps are such a big part of that. So when I was reading through this particular book, she goes into things like maps, how we map ideas, and things like that and there is quite a bit of science behind it. And even for metaphor, she writes that metaphor is what happens when our thoughts overflow our brains and we need to put them out into the world. DAMIEN: So putting these thoughts, these ideas back out into the world and into some sort of spatial representation, is that how you view the tech notetaking, or diagramming sort of thing? MARLENA: Absolutely. So I guess, for listeners, I want to back up a little bit because I think something that Damien knows about me and also Jamey and Rein from looking at the biography is that I'm very into sketch notes. Just to bring us out of the depth [laughs] a little bit, I can tell you about why I turned to sketchnoting and why I started doing it. It was because I was trying to learn JavaScript and yes, Damien, I know how you feel about JavaScript, some of us like it. [laughs] DAMIEN: I don't want to show my cards too much here, but I will say the fact that you had difficulty with it is telling. MARLENA: Well, but I also had difficulty learning C, Java, Erlang. DAMIEN: So how did [inaudible]? MARLENA: Well, so I went to CascadiaJS and this was my first – well, it wasn't my first, but it was the language conference and I was just learning JavaScript and I didn't understand half of it. It just went over my head. So to try and create some memory of that, or try to figure it out, I started drawing. I had seen sketch notes on the web. They were experiencing a bump in popularity at the time. I think my Mike Rohde’s book had just come out and it helped. That was what introduced me to this whole world and eventually, we're talking about when thoughts overflow and you turn to metaphor, this is exactly what was happening for me was Barbara Tyversky refers to these pictures we draw as glyphs. They can be more complicated than language and that is why when we're really trying to figure something out, we're not going to be writing an essay, maybe sometimes, but for the most part, we'll start diagramming. JAMEY: I also wanted to talk about zines while you were on. I was thinking about zines when you were talking about this because I feel like there's a few different mediums of art that I do and some of them are more intentional than others. To me, zines are about like, “I'm thinking this and it needs to exist in physical space and then it will be done and I can stop thinking about it,” because it exists. MARLENA: I love that so much and it's exactly what zines are there for. So zines are DIY publishing and zines are the publishing that happens for topics that, I think it happens a lot for people who are underrepresented in some way. Because you're not going to have access to a publisher and it's going to be harder for you to get any official book out. But then sometimes it's also just, maybe you don't want that. Maybe you want your zine to be a more informal publication. I love zines how kind of – they are all so super niche like, you can put anything. Define the word zine, ha! [laughs] JAMEY: It's so hard. People will argue about this in the zine community for like days and days. Hard to define the word. MARLENA: And that's actually part of the power of zines because it means it can be whatever you want, which means whatever you want to create is okay. I think that's really what we're trying to get down into here is having different ways of expressing and problem solving be okay and accepted. REIN: Just something to point out that containment is a metaphor we use for categories. So we're talking about what is inside the zine category? DAMIEN: I want to go back to the well, Marlena, you said zines were do-it-yourself publishing, DIY publishing, but blogs are also do-it-yourself publishing. So zines have a physicality to them and feels like that's an important aspect. Can you talk about that, or why that is? MARLENA: Well, there are also digital zines, so yeah. [laughs] But. DAMIEN: Maybe five containerization and categories. MARLENA: [laughs] Well, if we wanted to talk a little bit about physical zines, that even is interesting and Jamey, maybe you have a few thoughts about this that you can share, too because there are just so many different ways to format a zine. JAMEY: Well, I know that digital zines are a thing and I've read some digital zines that I've very much enjoyed. To me, the physicality of zines is a big part of them and a lot of what's appealing about them for me. I think that part of the reason for that is that, as you were getting at, people can write whatever they want, people who might not have a chance to write in other formats and most importantly about that, you can't censor a zine. It's impossible because someone makes it themselves and then they give it to whoever they want to have. It's a very personal experience and there's no middleman who can like tell you what you can, or can't say. So I think that having that physical piece of paper that you then hand directly to someone is what makes that possible and not putting it on the internet is also what makes that possible. Like, you have this thing, nobody can edit what's in it. It's all up to you. Nobody can search for it on a search engine. If you don't want someone to see it, then you don't give them one and it's just a holdover from what a lot of media was more like before the internet and I appreciate that about them. [chuckles] DAMIEN: Yeah. To me, it sounds so much like the Federalist Papers, like Thomas Paine's Common Sense. JAMEY: Oh, those were zines for sure. DAMIEN: I wrote this thing, [inaudible] about, I'm hazing him out of here, read this. [chuckles] Those are zines, okay. JAMEY: And political zines are a huge subsection of pamphlets and all sorts of political ideology. REIN: And that's where printing started was with the publishing of zines, that's my argument. MARLENA: This is the power of print. It's the power of print and that power, it's something that you don't necessarily get with the internet. Zines are an archive as well and I don't think we can just say – So when I did the first Let’s Sketch Tech! conference, I had an editor from Chronicle Books come and she talked about publishing. When I was talking to her about doing this talk, what I thought was most interesting about our conversation was she said, “Books aren't going away. Books are never going away because we are so connected to our hands and our eyes.” Books are always going to be there. Printed, words printed, pamphlets, zines, I think they're going to outlast computers. [chuckles] Think about how long a CD, or magnetic tape is going to last for versus the oldest book in the world. DAMIEN: Yeah. REIN: And by the way, if you don't think that printing was about zines, go Google the pamphlet wars. We think it's about publishing the Bible, but the vast majority of stuff that was printed was pamphlets. Zines! DAMIEN: And we can look at things that have survived through a history and it's really truly about paper from Shakespeare's works to the Dead Sea Scrolls, this is how things have survived. MARLENA: And on another aspect of this is the fact that we are human, we have human eyes and those eyes have limits as to how much they can look at a screen. Looking at paper and also, the physical manipulation of that paper, I think is a very important aspect of zines. So my favorite scene ever, which is sadly lost to me, was this very small print zine and it was the kind that is printed literally on one piece of paper and this folded up. But it had the most magnificent centerfolds where you open it up and this is awesome picture of Prince and the person even taped a purple feather in the centerfold part of it and it's like, that's an experience you're only going to get from this kind of printed physical medium. DAMIEN: So yeah, I'm seeing a pattern here, communicating ideas through physical mediums. JAMEY: And I think that because zines are so DIY and low tech that people do really interesting things with paper to express what they're going for. Like, I've been doing zines for a long time with friends. But my first one that I ever did by myself, I had this black and white photo of a house that had Christmas lights on it and I was trying to be like, “How am I going to express this feeling that I have about this picture that I want to express in this media?” I'm like, “I'm going to go to Kinko's and make copies of this for 5 cents and how is it going to look the way I want?” So I ended up manually using a green highlighter to highlight over all of the Christmas lights in every single copy of the zine so that everyone would see the green Christmas lights that I wanted them to feel what I was feeling about. I think that's a pretty simple example because it's not extremely a lot of work to put highlighter in your zine either. But I think that people have to think about that and how they want to convey something and then people have done a lot of really interesting things like taping feathers into their books. MARLENA: Yeah. This is a way of slowing down our thought process, which I don't think we talk about enough because right now, in our culture, it's all about being faster, being lull 10x and making a zine is a great way to reflect on things that you've learned. So I would really like to take a minute to just talk about zines at work and zines in a professional setting because I've noticed that one thing people think as soon as I start talking about zines is why do I need this in my job? Why do we need this in tech? I think that zines are a great way to help people on teams surface the unspoken knowledge that lives in the team, or it's also a way to play with something that you're trying to learn and share with other people. I’d like to hear Jamey, do you have thoughts about this? JAMEY: I have a thought, but I'm not sure how directly related it is to what you just said and I feel self-conscious about it. [chuckles] But I like to teach people to make zines who aren't familiar with zines, or haven't made them before and the thing that I try to teach people that I think zines can teach you is that you can just do this. It's not hard. Anyone can do it. It doesn't take a specific skill that you can't just learn. So they're accessible in that way, but I think it's also a bigger lesson about what you can do if you want to do something and that's how I feel about tech. If you want to learn to code, it's not magic, you can learn how to do it. If you want to do a zine, you can learn how to do it. To me, those thoughts go together. I feel like that wasn't exactly what you just asked, I’m sorry. DAMIEN: I liked it, though. [chuckles] MARLENA: It does tie into the fact that it's important to help people feel at home at work. Well, you're not at home at work, but to feel as though they are in the right place at work and this type of making zines and allowing people to surface what they know about your system, about what you're building, about ideas that your team is tinkering with. This kind of format gives people the space to surface what they're thinking even if they're not the most vocal person. DAMIEN: So one of this really ties into what I was thinking. When you said zines at work and there's a couple of great tech zines which I love and I think should be in a lot of offices. But the idea of actually creating one at work, something happened in my chest when I thought about that idea and it's because it's a very informal medium and tends to be informal and whimsical and you just kind of do it. I realize how much that is counter to so much of how tech teams and tech industry runs where it's very formal. You can't just ship code, you’ve got to get a pull request and reviewed by the senior engineer and it's got to fit our coding standards and run in ordering time, or less. [laughter] That can be very, I'll say challenging. JAMEY: I think that's also exactly why it’s easy and fun to learn about tech from zines because it feels so much more approachable than a formal tutorial and you're saying like, “Oh, will this be too hard, or what will I learn?” There's all of this baggage that comes along with it where it's like, “Oh, the zine is like cute and whimsical and I'm going to read it and it's going to be interesting,” and then like, “Whoa, I just learned about sorting from it.” DAMIEN: Yeah. Just because you’re writing software, or doing computer science doesn't mean we have to be serious. [laughter] Probably needs to be shouldn't be. REIN: It also makes me think about a shift that I would really like to see in the way diagrams and things like this are used, which is that when you're asked to produce an architecture diagram, you're generally asked to produce something authoritative. It has to be the best current understanding of what the organization has decided to do and that doesn't leave any space for exploration, or for using diagrams to ask questions. I think that's bad because naturally, on a team, or in an organization, everyone has their own models. Everyone has their own local perspective on what's happening. If there's no opportunity to surface, “Hey, here's how I think this works. Can I compare that with how you think this works?” You can't maintain common ground. I don't think producing a lot of words is a great way to do that. I think that's very inefficient. I also think that having an hour meeting with twenty people where you all talk about it is also inefficient. So I'm wondering if diagrams can be useful here. Relatively, it’s a little bit quicker to draw some boxes and connect them with arrows than it is to write a 1-page report. I'm wondering if we could promote more people putting out these low fidelity diagrams that are, “Here's what's in my head,” and sharing them, if that would help us maintain common ground. MARLENA: Absolutely, and I love the way that you brought up this situation where everyone is – because I think we've all been in these meetings where it's like, there are some technical hurdle, decisions have to be made, technology needs to be chosen, libraries needed – that type of thing. What I experienced was it was hard for me to get a word in edgewise. REIN: Yeah, like if you have twenty people in a meeting, at most three of them are paying attention and about half of them are going to be underrepresented in the meeting for a variety of reasons, if not more. MARLENA: Yeah, and well, I'm just going to say yes. For underrepresented people, this happens a lot. So one of the things that I like to promote is taking apart the traditional jam everyone into a room, let the conversation naturally happen. I'm just going to say it. I don't think that works too well and honestly, I think that a zine format, or even if it's just like take a piece of paper, let people diagram what they think is interesting, then trade, then your team is having a zine fair. [laughs] REIN: Or if you do that to prepare for the meeting and then the meeting is going over them. MARLENA: Sure. Yeah, and maybe the discussion is like a facilitated discussion. I did a lot of Agile team stuff, including I had to go down the route of learning how to facilitate just because I couldn't get a word in edgewise on my team. So I started looking at different ways to how do you have a discussion when it's like, there are two, or three people who always talk, nobody else says anything, but everyone has thoughts. It's really interesting what happens when you start trying to change how a group is having discussions. REIN: It also seems like it's super valuable for the person doing the facilitation because they have to synthesize what's happening in real-time and then they come away with the meeting, with the synthesis in their brains. Part of which they've been able to put into the diagrams, the drawings, and whatever, but only a part of it. So it seems like if you have some external consultant come in and draw diagrams for your team, that external consultant then leaves with a bunch of the knowledge you were trying to impart to everyone else. MARLENA: I don't know if that's necessarily true. In the world of graphic recording, those folks go to all kinds of meetings and I think it's true that they are going to come away with a different set of thoughts in their head, but they're also not going to have the context of your team. REIN: Yeah. MARLENA: And that's a pretty big part of it. But I know Ashton Rodenhiser, she's a graphic facilitator who does this and she'll go into meetings like the one we're describing, and while people are talking, she's drawing things out. It's really interesting what happens when people see their discussion being drawn by a third party. I've seen this happen at some conferences; it's really great way to change the way you have discussion. REIN: Yeah. So for example, we do incident analysis, we do interviews with the people who are there, and we review slot transcripts. What we find is that the people who are doing the interviews, conducting the analysis, facilitating the reviews, they become experts in the systems. MARLENA: Ah yes, because so much – it reminds me of how teaching somebody to do something, you teach it to yourself. So they are having to internalize all of this discussion and reflect it back to the team, which means of course, they're learning along with the rest of the team. REIN: Yeah. So I think my point was not don't hire consultants to do this, it was keeping them around after you do. MARLENA: [laughs] Wouldn't it be amazing if having a graphic recorder, or a graphic facilitator was just a thing that we all had in our meetings? REIN: Yeah, or even something that was democratized so that more people got the benefits of – I think doing that work has a lot of benefits to the person who's doing it. JAMEY: This is making me think a lot about the way that you engaged with something, or the way that you express it, depending on who your target audience is. Like, if I'm taking notes for myself in my own notebook, my target audience is just myself and I write things that won't make sense to anybody else. If I'm writing like a document for work, the target audience is my team, I'm writing in a way that reflects that it's going to be read and understood by my team instead of me. I think that a lot of what we're talking about here with zines, diagrams, and things like this is kind of an interesting hybrid. When I write a zine, I'm doing it for me, it's benefiting me, but not in the same way as notes in my notebook where I don't want anyone else to ever look at it. So it's like, how do I write something that's benefiting me, but also has an audience of other people that I'm hoping will get something out of it? I think that's a bit of a unique format in some ways. DAMIEN: That's interesting because everything I hear from novelists and screenwriters, it's always “Write the book, write the movie that you want.” You're the audience and if you love it, not everybody's going to love it, [chuckles] but there are other people who will, chances are other people will love it. If you write something for everybody to love, nobody is going to like it. MARLENA: Yeah, I think so, too and you never know who else is going to be thinking the same way you are and sometimes, it's that people don't have a way to speak up and share how they're feeling in a similar way. So I actually love that zines allow – I think it is important to be making something that is from your perspective and then share that. That's a way to see who else has that perspective. DAMIEN: But I also understand this need to, well, I'll say code switch. This need to code switch for different audiences. [chuckles] Rein brought up UML. I learned UML in college back in the long-ago times and I hated it. It was an interesting thing to learn, but an awful thing to do because all of my UML diagrams had to be complete, authoritative, and correct because I was doing them for my professor and I was a TA. I thought, “Well, if I had large amount of diagrams describing large systems, looking at them could be very informative and useful.” But no one in the world is going to write those things because this is way too much work unless I'm allowed to be informal, general, not authoritative, or complete and so, I'm realizing these tensions that I've been going on in my mind for decades. MARLENA: Well, and there's programs. Using those programs was so clunky, like adding a square, adding a label, adding a class, and pretty soon, if you were trying to diagram a large system, there was not a great way to change your perspective and go from macro down to micro and zoom out again. Whereas, this is, I think what is so great about the human brain. We can do that and we can do that when we're drawing with our hands. DAMIEN: Yeah. There were promises of automated UML diagrams that you get from type systems and static analysis and I think I saw some early versions of this and they created correct UML diagrams that were almost readable. But going from correct and almost readable to something that's informative and enlightening, that's an art and we don't have computers that can do that. MARLENA: Right. Like, humans are not computers. Computers are not human. [laughs] When is it not Turing complete? [laughter] I think that initially people really wanted to be robots when they were sitting down at the computer and I think we're going through a period right now where we're rethinking that. REIN: Well, in part it was management that wanted people to be robots. DAMIEN: Which reaches back to the industrial revolution. MARLENA: And still does. What I love is that having this conversation about how we work and how to build software, it brings up all of these things, including this type of management wanting people to be robots, but we're not. What's interesting to me and what I think is that if we could shift our perspective from let's make everyone a machine, we're all robots sitting, typing out the stuff for people. If we could shift to thinking about building software is a creative process, people are going to need sleep. If you want them to solve your problems, they're going to need different ways to express themselves and share ideas with each other. REIN: It's really important to uncover facts about work and human performance like, even if you have rules, policies, and procedures, humans still have to interpret them and resolve trade-offs to get them done. You can have two rules that are mutually exclusive and now a human has to resolve that conflict. Also, that we think that the old paradigm that Damien was talking about, this Taylor’s paradigm, is that manager decide how the work is to be done and then workers do what they're told. But workers, to do this, have to think about high level organizational goals that are much more abstract than what the people designing the work thought they would have to think about. I think if you can uncover – this is all creative problem solving and it's a part of the day-to-day work. DAMIEN: Yeah, that command-and-control structure was always a fantasy, less so in some places than other places, but always, always a fantasy. REIN: Even the military is reevaluating what C2 means in the face of overwhelming evidence that humans don't work that way. DAMIEN: It's nice to pretend, though. Makes things so much simpler. MARLENA: What's interesting about this changing paradigm in how we view this management and control piece is how this is manifesting in the world of academia, especially in the world of liberal arts, because liberal arts colleges are not doing well. [laughs] In fact, Mills College here in the Bay Area is not going to be taking freshmen next year and they're going to close. But I think there's a theme of education in here, too in how people learn these skills, because we've been talking about zines. You do not have to have a degree to know how to make a zine and that's awesome! [laughter] Along with these other skills and I know that there are a lot of people in tech, who they went through computer science program, or even a bootcamp and maybe they did some science before, maybe not, but they're still going to these creative skills and it may be, I think a lot of folks in the US and in tech, it's like you weren't in a position to be able to study art, or to get that much exposure, because it was about survival. Survival for your whole family and there's just not the time to try and explore this stuff. I would love to see more space in tech for people to explore all of the creative arts and see how does it help you express yourself at work. The most concrete example I have of this is writing up a software bug. So I used to be a tester and I could always tell who had writing skills and who didn't based on how they would write up a bug. [laughs] DAMIEN: No, and I can definitely feel that. I work on a team of one for several projects. So sometimes, I have to write a user story, or a bug and I have a very strict format for writing bugs. It's basically, it’s write on a Cucumber and yet I will take minutes and minutes and minutes to properly wordsmith that bug report for me [laughs] so that Tuesday – MARLENA: As you should! Doing a good job! DAMIEN: So that Tuesday, when I read that I know right away what it means and what it says. Whereas, I can write something quickly that might be accurate, but would be difficult for me to understand, or I can write something quickly that could be in complete assuming that I found the bug. I'm the one who put the bug in there; I know everything there is to know and still come back to this, no clue. I don't even know what the bug is. I actually have to throw away a feature this week because I had no clue what I meant when I wrote it. MARLENA: I used to actually give a talk about this, how to write up bugs, because it was such an issue and if you don't train developers and other folks who are looking at an app to write them, then it ends up, the testers are the only ones who can write it up and that's not okay. [laughs] DAMIEN: And when you talk about a talk, how to write a bugs, there's some obvious mechanical things. How do you reproduce this? What did you expect to happen? Who's doing it? That sort of things and these are very clear and obvious, but then there's the actual communicating via words issue. [chuckles] How can you write those things down in a way that's easy for the next person to understand? I spend a lot of time doing that sort of thing. It's hard. It's an art, I guess. REIN: I want to turn this into an even more general point about the importance of the discipline of formulating your thoughts in a way that's available for consumption. So as an example, I used to write notes in a shorthand way where if I thought I knew something, I wouldn't include it because I already knew that I don't need to take a note about it and what I've found is that I couldn't explain stuff. I couldn't integrate the new knowledge with the old knowledge when it came time for me to answer a question. The approach I've been taking more recently is formulating my thoughts in a way that if I had to write a blogpost about that topic, I can copy and paste things from my notes, ready to go, and just drop them in. That's the thing I do for myself, but what I've found is that I actually understand stuff now. DAMIEN: Yeah. I've had the same experience writing things that I thought I understood. This is the rubber duck story. You think you understand something so you try to explain to somebody else and go, “Oh, that's what it was.” But since we have Marlena here right now, [chuckles] I want to talk about using diagrams and images in that process for a person who doesn't work that way usually. MARLENA: Indeed. Well, one of the things that I think we hint at in the world of tech—this is interesting because we've all been bashing the UML and all that stuff, but it did give us a set of symbols for visual representation of programming type things. Like, you make the rectangle for your class and then you put your properties in the top and the methods in the bottom, or something like that. Something that I've noticed in the sketchnoting world is that sketchnoting 101 is how to draw at all. How to feel confident enough to put your pen on the paper and draw a line, draw a box, draw a circle, make them into objects, whatever. But once you're past that introductory, when 101 level of sketchnoting and you've done a few, the next level up is to start creating your own language of visual representation, which I think people kind of do, whether they intentionally do it, or not. I kind of find myself doing it. The way that I contain categories of information in a sketch note, I've kind of come to a particular way that I do it. That type of thing is because we don't talk about creativity and representation; we don't take the time to do these things. They're not really a practice. Everyone kind of just does their own and I've been on teams that, or I've tried to be on teams that had a fairly mature way of having a wiki, you're going to talk to each other, Agile teams. Still, we might have a wiki, but it's not like we were always drawing together. I'm interested in have you all had experiences on your teams of drawing together, collaborating on one drawing at the same time? REIN: Yeah. We use a collaborative whiteboarding software to do various things and one of them is drawing boxes that represent systems and architectures. One of the exercises we sometimes do is we say, “You get this part of the board, you get this part of the board, you get this part of the board. I want you each to diagram how you think the system works now and then in 15 minutes, we're going to look at them together.” MARLENA: Yes. That type of thing, I think it's so important and I wish that more folks did it on their teams. Have y'all found that you have any visual representation that has started repeating itself, like say certain part of a system you usually draw in a certain way? REIN: Yeah. We've definitely developed a language, or a discourse over time and some shorthand, or mnemonics for certain things. We’ve not standardized, I think is the wrong word, but we've moved closer together in a more organic way. DAMIEN: Which is how language develops. MARLENA: Indeed, indeed. But this way of having this shared visual language together is going to give you a shorthand with each other. Like, when you have a map, you have a legend, and I think that it's important Rein, like you mentioned, not necessarily having standards, but having some common ways of drawing certain things together. That type of drawing together is very powerful for developing your collective way of visualizing a system and thinking about it. REIN: And another thing I want to highlight here is that if you ask four people to diagram and architecture and you get four different diagrams, that doesn't mean that one of them is right and three of them are wrong. What that usually means is that you have four different perspectives. MARLENA: Yes. We all have our internal way of mapping things and it is not a right, or wrong, a good, or bad. It's just, every person has a different map, a way of mapping objects in the world, that is brain science stuff. DAMIEN: I get the opportunity to reference my favorite, what I discovered just now, today, I’ll just go with today's zine, Principia Discordia. JAMEY: Oh my god, that’s my favorite! DAMIEN: Marvelous work of art. They say in Principia Discordia that the world is chaos. It's chaos out there and we look at it through a window and we draw lines in the window and call that order. [chuckles] So people draw different lines and those are the diagrams you’re going to get. JAMEY: That’s so beautiful. REIN: I have to interject that John Haugeland, who's a philosopher, said something very similar, which is that the act of dividing the universe into systems with components and interactions is how we understand the universe. It's not something that's out those boxes. Aren't something that are out there in the universe. They're in here in our heads and they're necessary for us to even perceive and understand the universe. DAMIEN: Which gives us a whole new meaning to the first chapter of the book of Genesis. But [laughs] we don't have to go that far down the road. MARLENA: Well, even if we think about color and perceiving color, everyone's going to have a different theme that they see. It's going to like – REIN: Yeah, and there's philosophically no way to know if red for me means the same thing as red for you. MARLENA: Mm hm. DAMIEN: So applying that same standard to our technical systems. Some senior architects somewhere might draw a diagram and goes, “This is the truth of what we have built, or what we should be building and that there is no external representation of truth.” “Oh, look, the map is not the territory! We can go through this all day.” [laughter] REIN: And the interesting thing for me is that this is something that there are Eastern philosophies that have figured out long before Western philosophy did. So while Descartes was doing his stuff, you had the Jainism principle of Anakandavada, which is the manifoldness of the universe. There's no one right truth; there are many interlocking and overlapping truths. JAMEY: How does this relate to a GitHub [inaudible]? [laughs] DAMIEN: [overtalk] It means your diagramming is direct. REIN: It certainly says something about distributed systems and in distributed systems, we call this the consensus problem. [laughter] DAMIEN: I love the fact that Git was built to be this completely distributed, no single authority source control system and now we have GitHub. MARLENA: Indeed. REIN: I want to know how I, as someone who has terrible handwriting, can feel comfortable doing sketching. MARLENA: Sure! I just did a whole meet up about that. It's not just you, I think that it's 75% of engineers and we emphasize typing. So what I tell people about handwriting, the very, very basics, is slow down. Not what you want to hear, I know, but it makes a huge difference. So this past winter, my pandemic new skill that I learned is calligraphy, and in calligraphy, they tell you over and over and over to slow down. So that's tip number one is to slow down and then number two is try writing larger. Whatever it is you're writing, play with the size of it. Larger and slower generally gives you a way to look at what you're writing and which pieces like, there are probably some letters that you dislike more than others when you are writing and you can take those letters that you really dislike. Maybe it's just a matter of reviewing like, how are you forming the letter? If it's all of them, it'll take you longer, but. [laughs] JAMEY: When I was a kid learning cursive for the first time, I really hated to do the capital H in cursive. I think it's like an ugly letter and I think it's hard to write and it was hard to learn. My last name starts with H so I had to do it a lot. I just designed a new capital H and that's what I've been using in cursive since I was like a little kid [laughs] and nobody notices because nobody goes like, “That's not how I learned cursive in class,” if they can read it. That's how I feel that language, too and we're talking about the way language evolves. People will be like, “That's not a real word,” and I'm like, “Well, if you understood what I meant, then it's a word.” DAMIEN: Perfectly fine with it. JAMEY: And that's kind of how I was just thinking about handwriting too like, what is there right, or wrong if you can read what I'm expressing to you? [chuckles] DAMIEN: Yeah. If you look at the lowercase g in various glyph sets, you have to actually pay attention and go, “This lowercase g is not the same symbol as this lowercase g.” [laughs] You have to totally call your attention to that. They are vastly, vastly, different things. MARLENA: The letters that look the same, though are capital T, I, and F. DAMIEN: You don't put crossbars on your eye? MARLENA: Well, I'm thinking in terms of like, for calligraphy, when I got into the intermediate class, I had to come up with my own alphabet, typography, design my own alphabet. Those letters were so similar, they just gave me fits trying to make them all different. But I think it's important for people to practice their handwriting. I know that we all just scribble on the pad for charging, or whatever. You just scribble with your fingernail and it doesn't look like anything. But keeping that connection to your handwriting is also an important way of valuing yourself and this space that you take up in the world. I think it's really good if you can get to a place where you can accept your own handwriting and feel comfortable with it. Since I am into stuff like calligraphy and lettering, it's definitely part of my identity, the way that I write things out by hand. It's physically connected to you, to your brain, and so, things like that, we want to say everything is typing in tech, but there is a value for your confidence, for your brain, and for how you process information to be able to write something by hand and feel confident enough to share that with somebody else. JAMEY: That was really beautiful, actually. But I was going to ask, how do you think your handwriting relates to your voice? Because when you were saying that about feeling comfortable with your handwriting and how it's like a self-confidence thing, it made me think of the way that people also feel and interact with their voice. Like, you always hear people, “Oh, I hate listening to a recording of myself. I hate listening to my voice.” MARLENA: Well, there's that whole field of handwriting analysis, just like there's that whole field of body language and that includes what someone's voice sounds like. It is attached to your personality and how you're thinking and how you're working with ideas. [laughs] So it's not like I'm judging someone when I look at their—sometimes I am, I'm lying. Sometimes I am judging people when I look at their handwriting. I mostly don't. Honestly, I think we've lost so much education about handwriting in schools, what I dislike about that is, we were talking about the power of print earlier. Well, if you feel uncomfortable writing your name, if you feel uncomfortable writing down what you believe and sharing it, that's the type of censorship, isn't it? So I think handwriting is important for that type of thing, but I think it is connected to your personality. JAMEY: It says something about you and when you put something out into the world that says something about you in that way, it's kind of a vulnerable experience. MARLENA: It is, and you're showing people how you value yourself. I think that's partly why a lot of times in tech, we've minimized the role of handwriting so much that nobody feels comfortable sharing their handwriting. Well, it's not nobody, that's a big generalization, but a lot of people don't feel comfortable sharing their handwriting and that is a loss. That is a loss for everyone. DAMIEN: I love what you said, in part because I didn't want to hear it, when Rein asked, “How do you improve your handwriting?” You said, “Write slower and write bigger,” and I knew right away that that was correct because that's the only thing that has worked when I was trying to improve my handwriting. But I gave up on that because I didn't want to; I don't want to write slower and bigger because of what you said—taking up space. If you look at my handwriting historically, it's been not taken up – very little space, very little time. I don't want anybody to have to wait for me to finish writing. I don't want to use this whole page. I don't want to think my writing is so, so important that it's all big on the page, but allowing myself to take up space and time is how I get to better handwriting. So that was just such a beautiful way of putting it. MARLENA: Well, I read this book called How to Do Nothing by Jenny Odell and it's a wonderful book where the book blows me away and it's hard to talk about it because she has packed so much into it. But it's thinking about how we make ourselves go so fast and it's about the attention economy. How we are trying to speed ourselves up so much and I think that handwriting is part of this. If we are going to take back our own lives, that includes being able to slow down enough to write your name in a way that feels good to you and share it. I like what you wrote in the chat, Damien, but I'd like to hear you say it. DAMIEN: I wrote it in the chat so I wouldn't say it. [laughs] “Decolonize your mind.” It was a message to myself, decolonize your mind. The idea that you don't get to do nothing, you don't get to take up space and time. Yeah, and so that's just, it's all these things are so tightly connected. MARLENA: So I think y'all are ready for me to tell you the story of how I came up with a first Let’s Sketch Tech conference and this conference happened maybe 2017, 2018. I always forget the exact year, but it was post Trump getting elected. Now the Women's March, right after Trump got elected and sworn into office, was a major point in time and wake up call for me. I've always tried to learn about politics, intersectionalism, and things like that, but this March showed me the power of making something with your own hands and showing that and sharing it to someone else. I wanted everyone to feel like, even in this era of Trump, we still have the power to make something meaningful and share that with our own hands. So that was when I decided to start emphasizing more and learning more about the connection between art and tech. I'd been doing sketch notes and it sort of struck me that there was not much of a community out there that handled this topic, which I thought was just kind of strange. When I looked at sketchnoting itself, it seemed like more was happening in the world of design. Well, what about engineers? I've had to draw out things so many times to learn them, to teach somebody else, to understand what's happening and so, that's when I put together this Let’s Sketch Tech conference. I wanted people to be able to retain the power to make something with their own hands, because that can never be taken away from you, whether you have internet connection, or not. But even if you do have the internet connection, combining these together is just so powerful. So that is why I started this conference and this community and it's pretty deep. I don't bring it up all the time because it's kind of a lot, but yeah, and we had a great time. DAMIEN: Thank you so much, and thank you for sharing that story and everything else you've shared with us. How do we feel about going into reflections? I think I'm going to be reflecting on in the broad sense, it's what I didn't want to say earlier until Marlena called me out, decolonize your mind. But in a smaller sense, it's how much of my view of the tech industry, my work in there, and the environment there should be formal, structured, strict, authoritarian. I had all these ideas that are still, unbeknownst to me, having a huge influence about how we can work. The idea of a zine fest at work seems so outrageous to me because it doesn't fit into those ideas and so, I'll be reflecting on well, where else am I seeing this stuff and how has it prevented me from doing something so very effective? [laughs] I said, zine fest. I used to think I was too young to mispronounce zine, but whatever. [laughs] Who’s next? JAMEY: I can go next. So my two favorite things, I think that got said, one of them was also about like the zine fair at work. I host zine fairs in my hometown and the idea of like, well, if you both draw something and then you trade, you're having a zine fair. I absolutely love that. And then my other favorite thing was about the talk closer to the end about valuing yourself and the way and taking up space and all of those things. I feel actually like I want to mush those two things together because talking about valuing yourself, like really resonated with me the way that I do zines in my regular life, not in tech. But I think that inside of tech is a place where there are people that I really want to see value themselves more. It's a system that has a tendency to shut people down and keep talented people and I want to imbue that kind of confidence into a lot of engineers, especially newer engineers. So I think that I really like this idea of a zine fest at work, and maybe that can, in addition to helping teach us about our systems and stuff, help us encourage each other to take that time to value ourselves. REIN: I think what struck me about this conversation the most is that creativity is good for people, personally, individuals to explore our creativity. But when we share it with other people, that's a way that we can become closer. I think that for the work to happen—because to some extent, I tried to apply these ideas at work—people have to build and maintain common ground with each other. I think that encouraging people to be creative and to share that creativity—you typically wouldn't ask a junior engineer to draw an architecture diagram, but I think you should. MARLENA: I hope that after listening to this, people definitely ask their newer folks on their team to draw a diagram, then we’ll share and trade with them. I think what I've learned from this conversation is, well, I think that it validated, more than anything, the ideas that I'm trying to spread about connecting arts and technology. It was wonderful to hear each of you talking about the struggles and challenges that you have at work in bringing this together because it is a different way of thinking. But I feel so positive whenever I talk about this and seeing people be able to recognize themselves and seeing some doors and windows open about how they can incorporate the arts a little bit more into their tech lives is the reason why I do this and it's been such a privilege to share this with all of you and your listeners. So thanks for having me. DAMIEN: It's been a privilege to have you. The idea that we can start out with like, “Let's draw pictures as engineers,” and ended up with, “Oh my God, how do I become fully human?” [laughs] It's really amazing. JAMEY: Yeah, this was really great. Thank you so much for coming on and talking about this. MARLENA: It was a lot of fun. DAMIEN: Marlena, why don't you give your Patreon and your podcast? MARLENA: Sure. Well, I started the Patreon because it was an easier way for folks to sign up for the meetups that happened in Let's Sketch Tech. We do a monthly meetup and I'm starting to plan the conference for this year. There's a free newsletter, but if this podcast is giving you life, if you're getting oxygen from this conversation, I highly suggest checking out the Let’s Sketch Tech Patreon, sign up for our newsletter, and subscribe to my podcast, Make it a Pear! I talk a lot about creative process in tech. DAMIEN: Awesome. Thank you so much and thank you for joining us. Special Guest: Marlena Compton.

Today we spoke with Mike Rohde - Visual artist, designer and author of The Sketchnote Handbook, Workbook and Ideabook Mike is a designer, visualiser, teacher and an illustrator. He works with professional teams in business and sports, using visual thinking, service design and design thinking to create innovative and effective solutions, and solve problems. We talk about how Mike facilitates, engages and teaches visual thinking and why it is so important...now more than ever! We learned when he started capturing information from meetings and conferences visually - creating the term sketchnoting. He opens up on big ideas, creativity, innovation - and how to focus on the essential bits of information for value. Mike has contributed to bestselling books such as The $100 Startup and The Little Book of Talent in design and production - he discusses the importance of communication and collaboration on projects such as these - and really how visuals can help for those people that are constantly trying to keep on top of note taking during any meeting. "Who feels they can draw?" Thanks for joining us Mike! And a big thanks to Mike for sponsoring this episode and offering a discount on his book for our listeners and subscribers! To avail of the exclusive discount go to: https://www.peachpit.com/store/sketchnote-handbook-the-illustrated-guide-to-visual-9780321857897 Enter the code ROHDE40 which brings the price to just around 20 Euros for the book.

BGBS 055: Mike Rohde | Sketchnotes | No One Has Your Persnickety-ness How can you dare to do something you previously thought you couldn't do? Mike Rohde, designer and author of two bestselling books: The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, helps everyday people overcome just that. Through simplifying the art of drawing and providing a judgement-free space, Mike empowers his students to realize their Sketchnoting capabilities. Mike defines Sketchnoting as a communication device that is first for you, then for other people. Whether you make scribbly drawings or masterpieces, the importance is that you engage with what you've retained to find value in what you learn. Drawing was always a part of Mike's life, and we learn about his journey from doodling cars from memory as a kid, to working as a print designer in the pre-computer era. All of his knowledge truly paid off when having full control of the hand-lettering and drawing within his books. To Mike, writing a book is like climbing a mountain, but he emphasizes that celebrating each small win makes it oh-so worthwhile. Today, Mike is on a mission to teach, and the world is definitely better off because of it. Keep making the world a little bit braver Mike! In this episode, you'll learn... In most of Mike's workshops, around 80-90% of participants begin the session believing they can't draw. His goal is to make these same people confident in their abilities by the end of at least an hour. “Ideas, not art.” People get hung up on the idea of their ability to draw as a stumbling block. Once Mike teaches them a simpler way to visualize in a flexible setting, non-artists realize that they have much more capability than they believe Here's the thing about Sketchnotes: It's first for you, then for other people. If you have a scratchy drawing that captures meaningful information, that is more valuable than a beautiful Sketchnote that doesn't represent what you've heard Growing up, if Mike wanted something, he had to create it himself. This is how he made his own comic books and newspapers, allowing him to hone and master the skill of drawing from memory, which helps him with work to this day In a long haul project like writing a book, it's all about the progress, not the achievement. It can't be done overnight; there will be lots of grinding and revisions and being happy with the progress made, no matter how small, will make everything worthwhile. Before the name “Sketchnote” was coined, Mike named his creation “sketchtoons”. After writing notes for a life-changing event in 2007, the new name felt more fitting Mike enjoys using both an iPad or pen and paper for his work and doesn't prefer one over the other. The way he sees it, you wouldn't ask a professional mechanic if they prefer a wrench or hammer! They each have their own strength and purpose. Lately, Mike has been into drawing with good old Paper Mate Flair Pens on his own Sketchnote Ideabook, which has thick, white paper ideal for Sketchnoting Mike believes that the thickness of a pen line will affect your state of mind while working and can impact the way you draw The Sketchnoting technique is beginning to be used within schools to get students more engaged in their learning and discover how to better analyze and make sense of the world  Resources Website: rohdesign.com LinkedIn: Mike Rohde Facebook: @Sketchnote Handbook Instagram: @rohdesign Twitter: @rohdesign Quotes [11:54] The more important skill in Sketchnoting is actually listening and analysis. So the ability to listen and to make sense of what's being said, and to then be able to draw it is really key. If you have scribbly, scratchy drawings and writing but you're able to listen and make sense of something and capture it, that's going to be much more valuable than a beautiful Sketchnote that doesn't represent what you were learning or what you heard. [24:12] Ultimately, it wasn't about the money...I've been through enough projects where I wasn't in control of things to know that when you turn it over to someone else, they just don't have your vision or your persnickety-ness to make things exactly the way you want it.  [30:38] Here's some wisdom for people who are thinking about book writing and creation. It's definitely worthwhile when you're done. But it's definitely a journey when you're going through it. And that's okay, I think it's good to have those lifetime experiences where you can't do it in a weekend, you've got to do it over months. [41:51] Seth Godin always talks about if the idea is good, you're probably not going to be able to stop it...I just look back at these certain pivot points where it hit a point and accelerated, and it just continues to do that. And now, there's tons of people doing it and teaching it and sharing it. And I really like that. I love having lots of voices in the space. I think it just verifies that it's a real thing. And it's definitely a benefit to people who adopt it. Podcast Transcript Mike Rohde 0:02 It's really funny that all that stuff happened in the first that first 2007 I think that the first 2007 was where I realized, it feels like I should call it sketchnoting. Before that, it's funny like, up to that point it was like the pro name for it was sketch tunes like I was, it was sort of like was cartoons and sketching. But when I did this event, it was a little less like cartoons and just more like sketching and noting and that word just came to me. So it was right at that event, when I just really started calling it sketchnoting. And for whatever reason that name seemed to make sense to a lot of people and they liked it. Marc Gutman 0:39 Podcasting from Boulder, Colorado, this is the Baby Got Backstory Podcast, where we dive into the story behind the story of today's most inspiring storytellers, creators and entrepreneurs. I like big back stories and I cannot lie. I am your host, Marc Gutman, Marc Gutman, and on today's episode of Baby got backstory, we are talking to someone who has impacted my life in ways that very few have and today we are talking with Mike Rohde, the author, and I guess you can say inventor of Sketchnotes, the unique method of taking notes visually. And before we get into my conversation with Mike, if you'd like and enjoy the show, please take a minute or two to rate and review us over at Apple podcasts or Spotify. And Apple and Spotify use these ratings as part of the algorithm that determines ratings on their charts. Better yet, please recommend this show to at least one friend you think will like it. Hey, while you're at it, one enemy who like it as well. It's time we bring the world together over the common love of the Baby Got Backstory podcast. Today's guest is Mike Rohde. Mike is a designer and the author of two best selling books, the sketchnote Handbook, and the Sketchnote workbook. He teaches in evangelizes sketchnoting. in Visual Thinking literacy around the world, he's a principal designer in visualizer. at Johnson Controls, his team helps group and define problems and imagine new solutions using Human Centered Design Thinking principles. Mike illustrated the best selling books rework, remote, the hundred dollar startup in the little book of talent. And as I mentioned, Mike's book changed my life. I'm not I'm not joking here. I believe it was Brent Weaver, who suggested the book to me in passing. And it wasn't supposed to be life changing. Just a little recommendation from a friend, or something he had heard of, or briefly seen. Hey, you should check out this book, about sketchnoting. I think that's what it's called, is what he told me that when I opened up the book, it was as if Mike was speaking directly to me, to the way I saw the world, to the way I learned to the way I listened at events. But I had self doubts. I didn't, and still don't see myself as an artist. My drawings are rough and crude. But Mike's book told me I could do it. If I followed his teachings, if I followed his steps. And you know what? He was right. And a whole new world opened up for me, my aperture expanded and I was able to communicate in a way that was authentic to me in a way that was beneficial to me and appreciated by others. Today, I get stopped by others who crane their necks to see my notes. I've shared my notes that the requests of others and classmates and people at conferences. And most importantly, it has helped my memory of key ideas and events in a way that handwriting just can't. Oh, and by the way, I have the world's worst handwriting. Several times a day, I lose an idea or a to do item on my list because I can't read my own handwriting. Drawing and big type in pictures was designed for me. Recently, my good friend Keith Roberts and I were interviewing one another, and he asked me about Sketchnotes. And we published that interview to YouTube. And you might imagine my surprise when on a Saturday morning while drinking coffee, Mike Rohde emailed me saying he liked our video that started an email conversation back and forth. And here we are. I'm so excited to introduce you to Mike Rohde, and this is his story. I am here with Mike Rohde, the author of the sketchnote handbook in the follow up the Sketchnote work. book. And as I told Mike, when we when we just met on zoom here a couple minutes ago, it is a real honor because Mike is a personal hero of mine. I'm a big fan of sketchnoting. I did a little YouTube video about it and via the power of the search engines and crawling algorithms that found its way to Mike and Mike reached out and said, I was really cool that you like my sketchnoting? And I said, Yeah, that's really cool. You liked my video about your sketchnoting? Yes, no. And so here we are. And so Mike, let's get right to it. Like what is Sketchnoting? Mike Rohde 5:39 So Sketchnoting is this way of capturing information visually. So it's note taking, but you're not limited to only writing, you can write, and you can draw pictures, and you can do lettering and use icons and color to express yourself in a way that's more expressive. And I think, provides more ability to remember and recall information than simply writing in text. Marc Gutman 6:05 Yeah, I would agree that's one of the things that I love most about it is the ability to recall I mean, I'll be flipping through old notebooks. And I'll see like something funny that I, I drew that was it was meaningful to me, like, Yes, I completely remember what that was about, and what we talked about in the takeaway, versus if I'm thumbing through and I see a bunch of text and, you know, it just doesn't resonate in the same way. So that that memory recall, is one of the the biggest things I love about it. And, you know, I think one of the first questions most people probably have is, you know, do I have to be an artist? Do I have to be have this immense talent to be into Sketchnoting? Mike Rohde 6:39 That's a really great question. And when I used to present in person, I haven't presented so much in person lately. One of the first questions I would ask in one of my workshops, whether they were an hour or a full day, is who here feels like they can't try, please raise your hand, and usually 80 or 90% of the room would raise their hands. And I would get excited about that. Because having done the workshop hundreds of times now, I know that by the end of at least an hour, people will feel more confident in their ability to draw in the key to it is exactly what you pointed out, people are concerned that this is art. And if I'm not a good artist, I can't do it. And so it's really fun to show them another way. Another way to, to visualize it doesn't necessarily rely on the art that they may have been taught in school, which in a lot for a lot of people is baggage, it's more harmful than helpful to getting started. So one of my mantras is ideas, not art. And it's not, it sounds very provocative to an artist. I'm an artist as well. And I don't feel that way at all. I think what it what it means to me. And the reason I use that term, is the idea that people get so hung up on their ability to draw, being a stumbling block, that I needed to take that stumbling block away from them, I needed to provide them a simpler way to visualize what they were thinking that would not be so demanding, and so difficult for them to do, right. And especially in an environment where you're doing this live while thing people are talking and being able to draw, making it simple, is a really, really big key to getting people to do this, because you can you know, most people who come to the classes already can write. So I mean, unless you're teaching, you know, second graders or something like that, that the challenge is just be writing, right? Maybe actually, the second grader could draw better than they could write. But for most people, they can already do notes as it is right. They can write things, but they are really afraid of drawing. In fact, I kind of wonder if the fear of drawing is actually stronger than the fear of public speaking in some ways. And the reason I say that is, as you think about it, let's say you're a really successful business person, maybe a CEO, or a high powered executive, and you're supposed to go and draw something. But if you can, if you can't draw any better than a fourth grader, that's not going to be your best side, you don't want to reveal your weakness, right? So it can be really scary for someone who feels like that's a weakness in their life, to admit it to someone else. So I think it's really important to in these workshops, and also individually to create some kind of a safe space where it's okay to not be graded, trying and again, so it comes back to the simple way of drawing that makes it possible for non artists to do this work. And to see that they've actually got tons more capabilities than they probably realized when they walked in the room. Marc Gutman 9:32 Yeah, I totally agree. And you talk a bit about writing in this in this idea of writing and how we all know how to write but, you know, to me, there's this mythology that artists are born they come out of their mother and they are just talented. And when you were speaking it reminded me that well, yes, well, we all can write it's a learned skill and we don't come out as babies with the ability to to make characters and we actually spend quite a bit of time practicing, and we have, you know, in our class, we have dotted paper and all these things to make the most basic characters. And what I really like about Sketchnoting is this same idea that it's something that you can learn, and you can build up your own alphabet, so to speak, you can build up your own library of things that you can draw on, it really is more about being suggestive. And I think, you know, what I really love. And I don't remember which book it is. But there's, there's a variety of ways of even doing like human figures, like I'm like terrible human figures, but you can do stick figures with pointy noses. And just by the way that you can't the line or have an arm movement, you can suggest motion and all sorts of things. So really taking that away and using Sketchnoting more as a communication device and something that people can learn. And so that, you know, that's something that is that I've taken away from your books that, you know, with a little bit of practice, like you can build up your own library and get pretty, pretty good, at least for your own skill level of wherever you want to be. Mike Rohde 11:01 Yeah, I mean, it comes back to is it helping you be better be a better person, right? is it helping you? If you go to a conference and you want to learn something? is it helping you remembers and helping you process and helping you learn better, like, I could care less? If it looks awesome, right? That's not the point of it. In fact, you don't even have to show it to me, you can keep it private. If that's what you feel like, I think that's sort of a misnomer was Sketchnotes that seems to travel with it as well. If you Sketchnote, then you have to publish it on social media and the show everybody in the world, your work? Well, you can but I don't think it's required, it's first for you, and then for other people. Mike Rohde 11:37 So it's going to have more meaning for you, because you're the one that did it. And all those little short hands that you're doing, as you're creating the Sketchnotes mean a lot more to you, especially since you were there in the moment when it was happening, right, it's gonna bring back memories that nobody else has got in their heads. So I think actually, the more important skill in Sketchnoting is actually listening, and analysis. So the ability to listen and to make sense of what's being said, and to then be able to draw it is really key. So if you have, you know, scribbly, scratchy drawings and writing and stuff, but you're able to listen and make sense of something and capture it, that's going to be much more valuable than a beautiful Sketchnote that, you know, is doesn't represent what what you were learning or what you heard. So I do think listening is kind of like the secret weapon that a lot of people overlook, for drawing really well. And I think, you know, drawing is sort of a part of it. But it's almost like a whole body experience of listening and drawing and involves every part of your body, which is another good reason to do it, because it's really fully engaging in a lot of ways. Marc Gutman 12:45 And so you're in Wisconsin now, is that where you grew up? Mike Rohde 12:49 I grew up in the Chicago area, actually, as a kid, and moved here. When I was in my teens, and had been here for quite a while, raised a family here really liked this area. I always felt good. Being a Midwesterner, I like the seasons. So it's been a really good fit for me and my family. And I like I like being here. Like, kind of like being from Milwaukee, there's, it's kind of a cool little town that sometimes people don't always think about when they come here, like this is a really cool city. How did I not know about this city? So it's kind of fun to sort of know my way around and know the cool places to take people. And it's kind of fun. It's it's good to be from the Midwest, and in the Midwest, I guess. Marc Gutman 13:28 Yeah, I can attest I last time I was in Milwaukee was I think, during the polar vortex, like two years ago, and I couldn't really go outside very much. But it was it was really great and really cool seeing there. And I can't remember the name of it. But I went to this really cool kind of indie movie theater. And I see that you're in the movies there with your background with Blade Runner and Star Wars Back to the Future. And, and that's a big love of mine to see I really, really loved that. And Wisconsin. And so when you were growing up in Chicago, and then into Milwaukee, I mean, were you always kind of doodling Were you always thinking in images? Mike Rohde 14:02 I think I was when I look back as a kid. You know, we we were I guess, lower middle class. I don't know. I don't think that can be judged a lot of different ways. But we did have like tons of money. If I asked for stuff like maybe I'd get it for Christmas, or maybe my birthday. I didn't have lots of toys. We had used bikes that my dad would get from a cousin fix it up. And my dad was good at fixing things. So typically, we would get things that were repurposed, which I kind of appreciate now, and so if I wanted something, I would sort of have to create it. So I got into making my own comic books and I made a little newspapers and books and you know, I did drawing a lot because it was kind of fun. I think a lot of it. I was seeing things and the way I saw things is a little bit unusual for a kid. Mike Rohde 14:49 So I remember, as a little kid, my parents told me that I basically memorize the front's of old cars and I saw the faces In the cars, so the headlights and the grills how had faces to me. So you could be driving down a road and I was Oh, that's a Buick. And then as I got older, that's all the saber, or you know, like I could identify the differences between these cars by the identifying grills or tail lights or other, you know, the lines of the vehicles. And I think that actually encouraged me to draw those. So I could draw them from memory. And I can still do some dumb practices like I did when I was a little kid. But you know, that the ability to memorize and sort of turn cars into objects, I think, sort of primed me in some ways for this idea of doing the visual library that you talk about, like, how can you break down these complex things into simple, simple shapes or simple objects that you could recreate, and you have the essence of the thing, even though it's like, you know, 10 lines, you can capture the essence of a Pontiac lesabre. Right. So that that also came into play. Later, when I was in college, I was a print major and became a graphic design major, one of the things I loved was type graphy. And that was another thing that I could memorize the letter form. So certain letter forms go with certain typefaces, and you could spot a typeface. And all you really need to know is like three or four of the key letter forms. And if you see it in a sentence, you can spot Oh, that skill sands, or that's whatever, right because of specific characteristics. So I think it's the same kind of thing. It's like identifying and boiling things down, and then being able to rely on that memory. I think that's helped me now in doing that kind of that same kind of work. And drawing was always sort of part of my life. And it just never, they never were, no one was able to ever shake it out of me. So I guess I'm lucky in that way that I got to draw since I was a little kid. And it really never stopped. Until now, even in my professional life, I found a way to kind of squeeze it in. Or sometimes they say it leaks out of me whether I like it or not. So that's been a real, I'm really fortunate that that's true for me. Marc Gutman 16:58 Yeah. And that was gonna be my question. So your your parents cool with you pursuing a career in art? Did they see that as a way that you were going to be able to, to make a living, I am sure for, you know, the way you just described it, that middle to lower middle class that like, hey, they probably were like, Hey, we just, we just wanna make sure Mike is okay, you know, he makes a living. And he can make a buck where they were they cool with the art path? Mike Rohde 17:21 Well, my mom is always actually very artistic. And my dad was very good at troubleshooting. So I took on both of those aspects from them. So the funny thing about me is I always had sort of a technical side and an artistic side. So I had both those. I think my dad was probably more concerned. And I'm sort of facing this now, because I've got a son who's just turned 18. So we're kind of wondering, like, what's he going to do right now I'm in the same spot as my dad was. But I think he just didn't understand like, what was an option, then, like, he didn't know understand what graphic design or commercial art was, in our school or high school, I happened to have a really good printing program, at the time, where you could learn printing in the school, do all this work, and then you'd get an apprenticeship and get a job in industry and just transition and be a full time could make pretty good money as a printer back in the day. Mike Rohde 18:10 But as it would, as luck would have it, it was right around the time of a kind of a recession. And so the jobs that normally would have been wide open for a kid like me coming out of high school, with those skills suddenly dried up. And so I went to a Technical College, again, in printing. And in my printing class. There, we did lots of cross training. So I ended up in these design classes with designers in the commercial art or graphic design program. And so I ended up in these design classes, and they're like, what are you doing in printing, you should be a designer. And so I sort of thought, you know, that's, that's a pretty good idea. I'm pretty good at this. And I do like the technical side of the printing. So I switched majors and became a print designer to start my career. And I think I always had the advantage of, you know, I mentioned I was always had a technical and an artistic side. Having come from that printing side, I understood that the reason why printing worked and what the limits were. So when I did my design work, I sort of always had that in the back of my head, and I could go to a press check with a printer, and I could have a discussion with them about ideas for making things print better, or, you know, my stuff would tend to print pretty well because I knew what I should and shouldn't do because I was a printing student. So that's sort of where I made my shift into design and my dad's ended up being very happy with my career choice, but I think a lot of it is he just didn't understand at the time that there was actually a way to do art and be paid for it. He just thought of the starving artists eating ramen noodles in a studio apartment right and then starving their way through life or something. So, you know, he did his best and you know, he ultimately had to trust your kids to make good decisions and that the the train that you gave them up till they were 18 would rub off on him a little bit and then Seems like it did. Marc Gutman 20:02 Yeah. And so your dad, you know, had the wherewithal to step back and let you be your own man. But like, what were you thinking? Were you super confident coming out of school that like you were gonna conquer the world with your art degree? Or was there? Are you uncertain? Or like how clear were you coming out of like, if this was gonna work or not? Mike Rohde 20:20 Well, I was pretty hard, I was pretty hardcore for printing, like, I was pretty good at that I had an artistic eye for it. And I was good at the technical stuff. And I understood the concepts and knew how to apply them. And, you know, there was a little bit of an at the time, because it was still pre computer, when I was coming out, there was a little bit of artistic flair to printing at the time, right? Because you did things made most things you did manually. So there was some human aspect to it, that you could, you could be kind of almost artistic in this in this profession. And I was pretty good at it, I was pretty dedicated to going into that. And then, like I said, the economy sort of changed the direction. And I'm glad it did, because, you know, it sent me back to college, because otherwise I might have just gone right into that business and would have been a printer. And so, you know, it sort of made me pause a little bit and rethink, there was a time for, I think, for a summer that I was into photography as well. Mike Rohde 21:18 So I've always had an interest in these, I guess, communications or visual arts, in general. So all those things are still interesting to me doing photography, I by no means a professional photographer, but you know, I like to, I like taking good shots, I like good lighting, like all those things sort of informed all the work that I do now. So I tend to be, I guess, you know, I would call myself a renaissance man. But I like a lot of different things. I like to have competence in different areas. So having those skills is definitely worked out. Well, for me being able to do as a solo person, or partnering with just one or one other person, like in the case of the Kickstarter, you know, shooting, shooting photos, and doing illustrations, and, you know, all that kind of stuff, all those skills have come become very valuable. Now, as I'm doing this, you know, teaching and product work. And even the books that I wrote, all that printing skill that I had sort of forgotten for a long time came in handy because when peachpit, the publisher came to me, they said, Hey, can we give you like $5,000? And have you design your own book? That's like, Yeah, sure. So I took it all the way from writing the text, and sketching and doing the illustrations to production. So I'm quite an unusual author in that sense that I actually turned over my production files to the printer, and they ran the book, based on my production work. So that's, um, that was a really nice thing to have control from end to end over the whole product. But what were both of the books. So you know, at the time, it's sort of like, you know, the Steve Jobs, quote, you can't see how things how the dots line up until you look back. And that was definitely one of those cases like going into it. He told me when I was a printing student, that one day, I would write this book about visual notetaking. And I would design the book, and it would be a best seller. And I've traveled the world teaching it like, you got to be crazy, like, you would never believe that. But here we are. Looking back and all those experiences. And all that knowledge that I gained over time, really did help me in doing the things that I'm doing now. Marc Gutman 23:23 Yeah, and just for those of you listening, since we are on an auditory medium versus visual, like if you you know, I do want to point out like the complexity of your book, this is not like, you know, I think I think you know, today you can go you can do an E file, you can send it to Amazon, you can get a little cover art, and they'll turn out a book that looks amazing. That looks like it was you know, that's the real deal. But your book is a very visual artistic book, every page is hand lettered, every page is hand drawn to some degree. And so that that's no like insignificant fact that you put in our work. Yeah, he put this book together. I was like, $5,000, like, they got a good deal for that! Mike Rohde 24:04 Yeah, it wasn't like, you know, I took that opportunity as well. I can make money doing it. But I have control that was really, ultimately it wasn't about the money. It was about the ability to make sure so I I've been through enough projects where I wasn't in control of things, to know that when you turn it over to someone else, they just don't have your vision and or your persnickety ness to make things exactly the way you want it. Right, and maybe that's being a perfectionist, but, you know, I I've heard stories of other authors who are also designers who gave up that right someone else. And they were really, really frustrated, like they would spit covers and they would get all turned around. And I just had a really great working relationship with my editor and all the people on that team that they trusted me and I trusted them and we just really worked together well, and it's, it worked out really well. And it's interesting, you mentioned that the book being hand lettered. Mike Rohde 24:58 Actually, one of the things that I I realized as a print production designer was, I do not want to hand write this whole book, because there's going to be too many typos that I'm going to make. So I actually reached out to a friend and said, Hey, do you know somebody who does typeface work? And he's Yeah, sure, this guy named Dell wetherington. Does that work? So I reached out, and he was willing to make a typeface out of my handwriting. So we did several different fonts. And that's what we use to produce the book. So it made it like almost like typesetting like you would use Microsoft Word or something. And then in the end, we had turned that into a product now you can actually buy that typeface for your own projects called the Sketchnote typeface. So, you know, this thing that we did for the book purpose ended up being, you know, an asset later that people use it. In fact, three weeks ago, I saw an ad in a Costco. flyer in my email was using my typeface. So it's, it's pretty crazy how you think it's a one time thing, and it can often have greater impacts. And maybe you imagined in the first place. Marc Gutman 25:59 Yeah, I mean, that's going to be quite the feeling when you see your own typeface and the Costco flyer, and you tell Dell, if he's ever looking for a model of a typeface that's legible. I would be happy to to be you could use my handwriting. You This is like, but it makes me feel a lot better that that was typeset versus, versus hand drawn. Mike Rohde 26:18 Most of it Marc Gutman 26:19 Yeah, yeah. Mike Rohde 26:19 Some of it, Some of it was handwritten, like some of the, in the sketches, Sketchnotes, do have people's actual handwriting. But I mean, the body of the text was my, my typeface, which, you know, Delve was pretty sneaky. He found out there's a feature in this interfaces you can do called contextual alternates, and some, some software like our page layout software, will use it. And what it does is you can have like 10 different A's and 10 different E's and 10 different ages, and it will randomly rotate through them to make the make the typeface look more random. So especially important for a handwritten style typeface to you know, not like not the same as over and over again, it would actually rotate through I think he, I think he kept it at like four is four characters for each letter that can potentially spin in there randomly. So it gives it a little bit more of a random feel to it, which I thought was kind of a neat little nuance that nobody but me and delve and now your listeners will know about. Marc Gutman 27:19 No, I think that's fascinating. I never knew that that was possible. And just like the or even, you know, just technology, like there's such a custom aspect to it yet. It's it's really brought to us via technology. It's incredible to me. So you mentioned this a little bit. But, you know, what's what's challenging about writing a book like this or writing a book in general? Like, what don't we know? Mike Rohde 27:43 Well, I would say this, if you're thinking about writing a book, I encourage you to do it, because I think I never thought I would write a book. And here I am an author of two books. So I think there is definitely there are definitely books in people. So I would encourage you to do it. Mike Rohde 27:56 But I would also go into suggest you go into it clear, I didn't know that writing a book is a huge undertaking. It's like walking the Appalachian Trail or climbing a mountain. And I say that in the sense that the thing that I learned about writing the first and then the second book was if you're used to pulling all nighters and doing projects, forget it, it doesn't work that way. I, I kind of grew up in the design business where you could like pull all nighters and do like an annual report in a weekend or, you know, stuff like that, you could pull it off, right? You cannot do that with a book, it just doesn't, it won't accept that option. You can do an all, you know, you can spend all weekend and write something, but it's going to be a long haul. So basically know that it's going to be a long haul and sort of plan accordingly. What I found really valuable for me was having a team that would sort of keep me on track and make sure that I was doing the things that I was doing. So editors, editors are hugely important. If you think you can get away without an editor and you're writing a book, then you're fooling yourself. You need editors, both copy editors to make sure you're not saying dumb things to you know, other other editors who make sure that your concepts makes sense and hold up and challenge you and say, Do you really believe that? Is that really true? Like those kind of things, they're going to make your work better? Like it's a pain in the moment, but it's better in the long run. So I think a good team is really important if you're going to write a book, even if you have to assemble it yourself. And then I would say the probably the last thing is, well, I'll say two more things. The next thing is you have to know that in a long haul project like this, it's all about progress. It's not about achieving it. Like I said, you can't pull the weekender and knock out a book, I guess you could but it might be a bad book. But it's gonna take lots of revisions and lots of grinding. You just have to be like, happy with progress, like, Hey, I made progress today. You know, even if it's writing a page or whatever it might be like look at the progress. And know that if you continue along that path that's going to build up into a whole book. And I would say the last thing is, when you write a book and you're done with the book, you're only have done because the other half is promotion. And often that's actually harder than writing the book. So, you know, know that promoting is going to be a ton of work. And that it, it requires a lot of effort to do that as well. And, you know, something I learned in that space was don't do everything, all the ones like so don't have all your podcasts launched on the first day, like spread them out. So they sprinkled through the, you know, a month or something. So it seems like you're everywhere for a month, right? That's gonna be probably your, your best option to get people's attention, you know, repeated repeated action, in their mind is sort of what where it's at. So there's some wisdom for people who are thinking about book, writing and creation. It's definitely worthwhile when you're done. But it's definitely a journey when you're going through it. And if that's okay, I think it's good to have those lifetime experiences where it's, you can't do it in weekend, you can do it over months. Marc Gutman 30:56 Yeah, and so much more to a book than just as you mentioned, writing it, you know, there's the promoting and thinking about what you're going to do. That's, that's great advice. And thank you so much for sharing that. This episode brought to you by Wildstory. Wait, isn't that your company? It is. And without the generous support of Wildstory, this show would not be possible. A brand isn't a logo or a tagline, or even your product or a brand is a person's gut feeling about a product service or company. It's what people say about you, when you're not in the room. Wildstory helps progressive founders and savvy marketers build purpose driven brands that connect their business goals with the customers they want to serve. So that both the business and the customer needs are met. This results in crazy, happy, loyal customers that purchase again and again. And this is great for business. If that sounds like something you and your team might want to learn more about, reach out @ www.wildstory.com. And we'd be happy to tell you more. Now back to our show. I'd like you to take a moment and think back and do you have a clear recollection of like when this thing sketchnoting was born? When you look down in your notebook? And you're like, I've got a Sketchnote! Mike Rohde 32:28 I actually do. And it's the funny thing is is like it actually started earlier than I realized, but I just didn't know what it was. And that that actually tracks with so many people that I've met that said, oh, I've been doing sketchnoting for so long. And I just never knew what to call it, which is a great feeling. Right? I was sort of the lucky one that got to name it and the name that stuck. But I do remember that actually, the first sketchnote that I call a Sketchnote is one I did in early 2007. Mike Rohde 32:53 That's really where I think it started, where I intentionally went to a conference in Chicago, from Milwaukee on the train design conference, with a different mindset around note taking up into that point, for probably three, four years, I'd somehow gotten myself to a place where I wrote like everything down and I use the pencil so I could race mistakes. And I had a giant notebook. Like and it was a huge burden I hate I was really good at it. And I hated it. It was the worst. And so early in 2007, I found that I can't take it anymore. I got to do something else. And as a designer, I'm always faced with constraints and restrictions. You know, you can only have this many colors, you got to use that typeface. You got to use my ugly logo, all those kind of things are always in my life, right? So I thought, well, what if I put a if I put some constraints on myself, what would happen if I did that? So I thought, let's now that you know, it's time I didn't think about it. But I kind of did it. George Costanza, remember that episode of George Costanza decides to do everything opposite of what he normally does. And then he like, starts dating a beautiful woman and gets the job of his dreams. You know, all these good things are happening because he's doing the opposite. It felt kind of like that, where I said, Okay, I'd normally carry a big book, what if I carry a pocket book? I usually use a pencil. What if I use a gel pen. So those are sort of my first two decisions. I sort of boxed myself in. On the train. All I had with me was a pocket moleskin that I bought, I don't know, a month before and didn't know what to do that because it was too beautiful. I finally had a purpose for the thing. And then I had these jeetu gel pens if that. Okay, I'm just going to take these two things. I'm going to show up at this conference and see what comes out because I really wasn't sure. And once I sat down, the interesting side effect of these two limitations was I was faced with the fact that I couldn't write everything down that I normally did. And that when I did write stuff down, it couldn't I couldn't erase it because it was ink. So it's sort of put my put my mindset in a different place. My mindset now shifted to I need to really be thinking about what's being said right now. I can't, I can't just write everything down and maybe describe Ever later, I got to think about it. Now I got to really listen closely, I have to really analyze what they're saying, decide if it's worth me putting on the page, because I'm using a pen, and then put it down. And from my perspective, I suddenly had tons of free time, because before I was just writing, writing, writing, writing, I never had time to think twice. So suddenly, for me, I had all this free time to do like, the lettering that I loved, and drawing images that were popping up in my head or sketching something from one of the slides. And I, I really loved it, I got to the end of that day, and I just felt like this is the this is the solution. I have to keep doing this. And I kept looking for opportunities to go to conferences and kept trying it. And that was really that conference in 2007 was really where I think sketchnoting was born for me, intent that, you know, with intention. And when I look back to my college years, when I was in that, remember I said I switched from printing to design. I happened to dig up my old notebooks from those years of after sketchnoting and sort of taken off and said, holy cow, I was doing sketchnoting I was doing this exact same thing in my classes. I was trying. And I was writing and I was doing lettering, and I'm like, how did I forget that? What what happened to me over these last couple years. And I think looking back now I sort of realized that the technology side of me sort of took over I got into palm pilots and powerbook duo's and I you know, I started typing everything. And you know that I just sort of shifted my mind to a different place. So when I went back to analog and books, I just kept following the assumption that I had a keyboard in my hands, and I could write everything instead of really realizing that, you know, that thing I did in college is actually really effective for remembering and studying from. And I ended up not realizing that I would stumble back into what I actually had been doing before. So I didn't call it sketchnoting back then. But it really, when I look back at it, it is what I was doing. So I think I was probably doing it all through college and probably back into high school to some degree in some form or another but never really intentionally, like as a thing like I would call 2007, where I really put all the pieces together and realize, hey, this really works. And I was aware of it. Before I sort of just did it naturally. And accidentally here is where I really did it with intentionality. Marc Gutman 37:20 Yeah. And so if you weren't calling it sketchnoting, at that time, when did you have a name for it? Or were you just like, Hey, this is just the way I do it. Mike Rohde 37:27 That was just the way I did it. I didn't have a name for it. It's kind of funny. Marc Gutman 37:31 And then so you're, you're Mike, you're doing your thing, you are taking notes in your own visual way. And like most great things I have to imagine, I mean, you're doing it for you. I mean, you're not probably thinking, Hey, this is a speaking tour. This is a this is a book like when does it become a thing? Like when do you start to get? Where does it start to become like a real part of your life? Both? I guess it's already become a part of your life from a conference standpoint, but like professionally, like what all of a sudden, do you become like the Sketchnote guy? Mike Rohde 38:03 Well, there's sort of a couple of points along the way. So this is early 2007, when this first thing happened. And I kept on wanting to try it. So I think it was in the summer or the spring or late spring, early summer. And the guys who are on Basecamp. Now that used to be called 37 signals, they decided to do a conference at their at a space that they had access to for like 150 people. And so I said, I'd really like these guys. And I said I'm going to go do this conference. And this would be a good chance to test out this note thing, the sketchnoting thing that I'm playing with and see how it works in this kind of setting. Right. So I went to that event and I did that event and Jim Kou doll who's friends with the base camp, guys. They're also Chicago firm. They're like an ad firm. They do. They're the guys behind the field notes. If you know what field notes are. Marc Gutman 38:49 Yeah, my friend Aaron draplin, who's been on the show has also partnered— Mike Rohde 38:52 Yeah, partnered up with those guys. So they could all partners found my Sketchnotes on Flickr somehow. And they put it on their blog, and then 37 signals whose Basecamp they put it on theirs. And that's that was a really big bump in like awareness, people started being aware of it. And I kept doing it and doing it. And I went to South by Southwest that following spring, I think 2008 and did it and I published it again, at the time I was publishing on Flickr and I use Creative Commons, I intentionally use Creative Commons because at the time, it was pretty popular. And the thing that I liked about it was I retained all my rights to the work. But I could build in usage rights right into the licensing. And what that meant at the time was bloggers, if they found the images compelling. Mike Rohde 39:40 They could just use an embed code and stick it right in their blog, and they wouldn't have to ask me for any permission because I'd already pre given it to them. So that was really important in spreading the concept and that that got back to the South by Southwest leadership. So the next year they said Hey, Mike, if we give you a pass this off by Will you come in sketchnote officially, like spend the whole week and just capture the experience of being here. Like, yeah, sure. So that was my next event. So that was a really important one. Because that's South by Southwest in 2009. I wanted to see like, could I handle this for a whole week, and what would get tired first, my brain or my hands. And it turned out, my brain actually got more tired than my physical body did, just from all the thinking and analyzing, but it was a blast, I really loved it. And that, so that was a really important point, because then that sort of spread it even further. And then it was around 2011, or something like that is when the book stuff happened. in between there, there was a point where I created Sketchnote army, and that was basically this desire to share other people's work, I had been sharing and pumping my own work. And I just felt like, it's not so much fun to be doing this alone. I mean, I started seeing other people doing and it seemed like there's a movement, and maybe I should be the one to capture this in one place. Because it was really hard at the time, around 2008 2009. To find this stuff. You just had to scrounge everywhere. I thought, well, what if what would happen if I invited people to submit their stuff, and we just put it on our website, then you just go to one place, and you could see the stuff. So that was an important moment in 2009. And shortly after that, the book deal came out. And in between there, you know, I did illustration work for the guys that Basecamp for rework, and then later remote. So that was those are also, you know, points that sort of brought awareness to that work, right. So they I think they all sort of added up over time, and it just kept building. And once I wrote the book, you think after doing all that work on the book, and there's a video that we did, that suddenly would take off, and I think it did pretty well. But, you know, nobody knew who I was, other than maybe they saw a book. So it took a little while for it to kick in. But it just kept on growing and growing. I think the idea was that Seth Godin always talks about if the idea is good, you're probably not going to be able to stop it. And I think that's sort of what what happened, right? I sort of solved the problem in my own life, which was I hated taking notes in this old, dreary way. And I found a way that made sense to me. And I figured, well, it solved the problem for me, there's probably a few other people out there that it could help. And it turned out there were a lot of few other people out there, right. So I think that's why it just kept on growing and growing. And I just look back at these certain pivot points where it almost like, you know, hit a point and accelerated, and it just continues to do that. And now, there's tons of people doing it and teaching it and sharing it. And I really like that I love having lots of voices in the space, I think it just verifies that it's a real thing. And it's definitely a benefit to people who adopt it. And it makes you know, being in a community is way more fun than being all alone. So there's lots of benefits to the way that it's worked out over these many years. Marc Gutman 42:48 Yeah, and yeah, and I can even my own experience, it's like, I've been a part of some long term education classes and things like that. And there's just something magical about the Sketchnotes, right, like, people see me doing it, and they're drawn to it. Like, I think everyone wants to do it as well. Like, it's like this universal way of, of communicating. That's just so incredible. And so, when did you coin it? Sketchnoting? What, like, when did you be like, when were you like, this is the name? Mike Rohde 43:16 I think, actually. So it's really funny that all that stuff happened in the first that first 2007 I think the first 2007 was where I realized, it feels like I should call it Sketchnoting. Before that, it's funny, like, up to that point, I was it was like the promo name for it was sketch tunes, like I was it was sort of like was cartoons and sketching. But when I did this event, it was a little less like cartoons and just more like sketching and noting and that word just came to me. So it was right after right at that event, when I just really started calling it Sketchnoting. And I don't know, for whatever reason, that name seemed to make sense to a lot of people and they liked it even over the more established names that existed before like graphic recording, which is kind of a different thing. or visual notetaking like, you know, Sketchnoting just has a little bit more of a branding ring to it, I guess, you know, it's less clunky and it's descriptive and it's concise and it just seems to work so that's that's sort of when it popped up was right at about that same time as the first Sketchnotes kind of appeared in my head. I had a name for them, so I guess it was destined to be. Marc Gutman 44:25 Destined to be, and so is Sketchnoting now your your full time gig, is that what you do for a living? Mike Rohde 44:32 It isn't actually it's something I do on the side. I do pretty steadily on the side. It's kind of my side, my side gig. I primarily I work as a principal designer, doing user experience and service design for large organization. I really like it I like working in a team I like I still have a real love for design in general service design, specifically solving you know the company work for isn't a big industrial company. Mike Rohde 45:01 So there's all kinds of opportunities to apply these ideas. And, you know, visualization opportunities like crazy, because so much stuff is just bad PowerPoint. So the opportunity to do illustrations and Sketchnote and even, you know, doing using my design skills in that space is really, really powerful. And I see lots of upside and opportunity. So a lot of why stay there. And you know, I've got a family as well. So it's good steady work, and it allows me to do this stuff on the side. And so far, it's worked out pretty well. Marc Gutman 45:33 Yeah, not too bad. Not too bad. And so do you have, you know, I know you're probably not like your children, right? You're probably not supposed to talk about your favorite Sketchnote. But do you have a favorite that you just, you look back and you're like, you know what, that's that's the full expression of Mike. That's, that's, that's it. Mike Rohde 45:52 There's a couple of them. But if I if I was forced to pick one, there's one that's in my Flickr feed, that I still love that still has really fun memories for me. And it's the story behind it is that I was doing a work project in the Oakland area in San Francisco, and we ended up going to shape nice, we couldn't get into the main shape, nice. But we got into the cafe, which is like a smaller venue, we got reservations for myself and to work colleagues. And I happen to have my notebook along. So I pulled my notebook out. And after I would finish a course, I would sketch out what it was and built this whole little two page Sketchnote in my notebook. And it just really has like a captures everything like a captures a moment in time a really great meal. With two good friends. If you look at it, it's not really it's all black and white. So there's no color. Mike Rohde 46:40 Some of the stuff that I drew is not really super detailed. Like it's not a standard illustration. It's not a piece of art, it's more of a, it's a Sketchnote. It's like the purest expression of a Sketchnote for me, and I really, every time I see that I'm like, wow, that that really turned out really good. And it was actually it's kind of old. It's like 2012 it was right around the time. Not too not too long, before I started on book work, so I was really fortunate that I had the opportunity and that one among others. There's some other ones that I really like as well. But that if I was forced to pick one, that would be it. Marc Gutman 47:14 All right, paper or iPad, you know, I was really I got your headshot in for the the press kit. And you're standing with an iPad. And you know, I I don't I'm not surprised I'm actually using an iPad right now. And I think it has Oh, by the way, there you are. But as we're talking I'm drawing Mike but um, yeah, I pad or paper or both? Mike Rohde 47:38 I'm a both person I think of I started think like when the iPad Pro and the pencil came out, that was the moment where the iPad became useful to me as a drawing tool. Like I'd used it before, for reading for like, part of my book, I actually typed in an iPad with the keyboard. So I mean, it had been useful to me. But as a illustration tool, a serious illustration tool when the pencil came out, which I think is 2017 or 18. That's when I picked it up. And I saw the value. And I always think of like, you know, I think there's sort of a desire always to like say, Oh, the iPad is a paper killer. It's like, Why does it have to kill it? Like, why can't I use both? Right? Mike Rohde 48:15 You know, you go and do a professional mechanics toolbox, they're not going to say wrench or hammer. Right there, they need both of them. Because in some cases, you need a wrench. In some cases, you need a hammer, sometimes you need a six point wrench because man that bolt is on their heart, and you've shot it with some penetrating oil, and you're gonna have to wail on that thing. And like a adjustable wrench isn't going to work, right. So even within wrenches, there's specific things right. So I think of like the iPad is sort of one tool, and it depends on what I'm doing. Like if I need to do lots of changes. So like client work, or have to go back and modify things or move things or I want the ability to shift things, that is often the best choice. And then there's other times when I want to use paper when I don't want to be potentially distracted, right? The problem with an iPad is you're like a second away from Twitter or Facebook or who knows what, right so and the battery can run out. I mean, they made the batteries last a long time. But if you forgot to charge it, you know, now all of a sudden, you've got a Karen feeding issue, write up a notebook and a pen, you know, it's probably gonna run the other. The other funny thing I always say is like, you know, you know how many pieces of paper and beautiful pens you could buy for the cost of an iPad, like you have a lifetime supply for what you pay for an iPad. Now, that's not to knock the iPad, it is a valuable tool, but it's always again about what's the right what's the right purpose for the tool. And so I look at it as a spectrum all the way from, you know, paper to an iPad and I choose the thing that makes sense, or that I feel is right and I just like having options, I guess. Marc Gutman 49:50 Yeah, and that makes complete sense. But you know, you're talking about paper and, and pen and we were talking right before we recorded about just you know Kind of this there's something magical about pen and paper, you know. And so it was what's your favorite combination the gf got going right now. And if you're anything like me, it changes like mine has changed. Yeah, over time, you know, but but I kind of come back to the same, the same kind of combo more often than that. Mike Rohde 50:17 Well, the last couple years, I've become an ambassador for this company called Norland, it's a German company that makes markers. For graphic recorders. Graphic recording is basically like sketchnoting. Except graphic recorders typically work at large scale, they typically work in front of the room. So everybody watches them while they doing while they're doing it, they have to be very skilled at listening and trying. And these tools are built for those people. But they realize the value of sketchnoting and they're starting to build more tools for Sketchnoters. So they have a variety of tools that I really like the fine one line, which is designed for sketchnoters in mind, have some really nice tools. Mike Rohde 50:53 The thing I like about New Zealand too, is every one of them now is refillable. So you can buy bottles of ink and refill your pens and just keep reusing them. If your nibs get squishy, because they're felted you can pull the nibs out and put new nibs in so they're in effect. They're like lifetime investments, kind of like the tools I was mentioning, right. So those are really great tools and the the colors and the quality of the pigments are really great. So it's not a hard thing to choose. As far as gel pens go, you're exactly right, I started jumping around. For the last little while I've been really into good old Paper Mate flares like you had in junior high school black paper, mate flair and boxes. And I just you know, as they get too mushy, I just go to the next one. And they just have a really nice, there's something about the feel of it that I really like. So that's another one. And then I'm always like checking the latest gel pens and trying stuff out. The latest one that I really liked is Sharpie of all pens has come out with a gel pen. And the one that I stumbled onto is a 1.0. So if you know your thicknesses of pens, it's really wide pen. But I love it because it just lays down this nice black line, it's really juicy. But because it's gel like dries nearly immediately, so I don't have to worry about smearing it so much. So that's sort of my latest gel pen that I'm into. And then as far as books go, I did a Kickstarter campaign with my friend Mike Ciano last year. And we basically designed a sketch notebook that's ideal for sketchnoting. So it's really thick, hundred 60 GSM kind of a thick, almost cardstock like paper and bright white, and a polymer cover that's really tough, and then guides inside, but the paper inside is really fantastic. So actually really, I really use my own notebooks to do sketchnoting with and then for, you know, if I'm doing bullet journaling, which I do every day, I've been using the leuchtturm brand, a bullet bullet journal or the dot grid books. And then there's also no Island is just released one that's a little bit bigger, that I've been using for a while since they sent me one as an ambassador, and I've been testing it, it's been actually really nice. It's a little bit bigger than a typical five and a half by half sheet so I get a little bit more space. So I've been enjoying that. So those are a couple couple things that I've been using pretty regularly and quite enjoy. Marc Gutman 53:11 Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, I have long been electrum fan. And that's been my go to book but I've actually got one of yours on the way and I'm very excited to to try that. Mike Rohde 53:22 I'd love to hear what you think of the paper and all that stuff as a product and branding guy. Marc Gutman 53:26 Yeah, as well as the Newland pens. Yeah, I was hoping that pink I like to make extra colors pink, you know, I like that a lot. And that didn't have it, but it had smooth. So I got some I got some other stuff that I'm very excited about. And like I were talking about before the show started I could just really geek out and try different pens. I like to you know, my goat my go to that I keep coming back to is actually the the pilot Gtech that has that like kind of scratchy feel, and it's a thinner line but like I have less control as I do because I like I'll crosshatch or that's all fill it in. But like or even in your technique, I'll do multiple lines down. But now I also feel like that's a little bit for me was like a more of a beginner pen less control, I can control the ink and, and I do like playing with Federline pens as well Mike Rohde 54:12 it is interesting how like the pen you use can impact the way you draw. So like a real thick pen will sort of produce a certain kind of a, it almost puts you in I'm in a mind state or something. And if you use a thin pen, it's put you in a different mind state. You wouldn't think so. But I've noticed it's subtle, but it actually is there. And it's it's it also sounds like if you and I went into an Office Max or an Office Depot, we'd be the guys standing at the pens the pen aisle like for an hour like look oh look at that one. Marc Gutman 54:41 Never tire I've got like pen cases for like even like like armful of pens. Yeah, I keep finding like pen cases with like pens that I packed for a trip that like then I like sit down I pick up I'm like oh my gosh, like I've got all these pens like I forgot that I even like packed for a trip just in case you know. So, Mike as we as we come to this Our time here. What's next for sketchnoting? Where do you see this going? We're ready. Hope it goes? Mike Rohde 55:07 Well, I'm really excited about a couple things. So one thing that's really excited and I have a little tiny bit to do with, but actually pretty small is it's moving into education. And the reason it's moving into education is because teachers are like totally crazy for sketchnoting. And they're crazy for it because of a couple things. Because the teachers told me this, that they see their students really embracing it, their students are actually much more engaged when they teach, because they're being given the the right to do doodling in class. Mike Rohde 55:41 Now, of course, it's directed toward the subject, but they get to do drawing and doodling and stuff. So they get engagement. And then the, the other benefit that teachers seem to be really excited about is, when they use sketchnoting. In the classroom, the students actually remember a lot more, right. So it becomes this really great tool that gives them the ability to analyze and process which a teacher wants and then remember more. So when they go to a test, they can actually do better. In fact, I have one friend in the Fresno school district in the science department that does something called sketch booking, which uses the sketching technique in it. And I believe she lets the students like as they learn stuff in science they get, they have to draw it in their sketchbook and it gets graded. And then a test time, I believe they have open book testing

BGBS 055: Mike Rohde | Sketchnotes | No One Has Your Persnickety-ness How can you dare to do something you previously thought you couldn’t do? Mike Rohde, designer and author of two bestselling books: The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, helps everyday people overcome just that. Through simplifying the art of drawing and providing [...]Read More...

In this episode, my good buddy (and fellow sketchnoter) Prof Michael Clayton interviews me about the 8th birthday of The Sketchnote Handbook!We'll talk about 8 years since the book launched, translations into 7 languages, the community it enabled, the teaching opportunities it opened up, and the in-person and online events it inspired.48% OFF The Sketchnote Handbook to celebrate its 8th Birthday! Use code  8YEARS at Peachpit.com. This code is good on print or ebook editions through December 31, 2020.SPONSORED BYThis episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast is brought to you by The Sketchnote Lettering Live Workshop on December 5, 2020.I'll show you how I create my signature lettering and handwriting in this hands-on, 2-hour workshop complete with a Q&A after the session ends.Your $25 ticket includes a video recording of the entire workshop and Q&A so you can come back and review it after the live event is over.Sign up today— there are just 5 days until this live workshop takes place on Saturday, December 5th. Grab your spot today!https://rohdesign.com/workshops/letteringRUNNING ORDERIntro: The Sketchnote Handbook is 8!Origin story of sketchnotingEvolution of sketchnoting - pro typing the processSEED conference - validating the processSXSW interactive - testing the process for a full weekCreative Commons and its impact on sketchnotingVizThink online conferenceSXSW VizNotes 101The Sketchnote Handbook influencers - Patrick Rhone and Von GlitschkaCreating the Sketchnote HandbookThe impact of the book remaining useful for the world and MikeImportance of community in sketchnotingMany voices validate an ideaThis book is a lot like an 8 year old childHow the Sketchnote Workbook captured work in the worldRockstar in a teapotFilling a lead role among leaders in the communityThe importance of the sketchnote nameMike's hope for the future of the Sketchnote HandbookWhat's next?Live online events vs. recorded coursesSketchnote Army Podcast as an extension of the booksWrapupOutroLINKSMichael Clayton on TwitterMichael Clayton on InstagramMike Rohde on TwitterMike Rohde on InstagramThe Sketchnote HandbookThe Sketchnote Handbook GermanThe Sketchnote Handbook FrenchThe Sketchnote Handbook RussianThe Sketchnote Handbook UkrainianThe Sketchnote Handbook ChineseSketchnote Army's first post on November 30, 2009My first Sketchnotes from UX Intensive Chicago 200737signalsBasecampSEED 1 Conference 2007SEED3 Conference 2008Jason FriedCoudal PartnersCarlos SeguraAaron DraplinField NotesSXSW interactive 2008 SketchnotesCreative CommonsSXSW Tote Bag DesignSXSW 2008 SketchnotesSXSW 2009 SketchnotesSXSW 2010 SketchnotesSXSW 2012 SketchnotesSXSW VizNotes 101 Flickr SetMean old second grade teacher slideVizThink VizNotes 101 WebinarDave Gray podcast interview - SE02 / EP01SXSW Visual Note-Taking 101 SlidesPatrick RhoneVon GlitschkaStoryline Conference SketchnotesNikki McDonald podcast interview - SE01 / EP06Illustrating REMOTE 1 of 2Illustrating REMOTE 2 of 2The Sketchnote TypefacePaul SoupisetCraighton BermanEva-Lotta LammBoon ChewLaura Kazan podcast Interview - SE05 / EP07Rob DimeoInternational Sketchnote CampBook: Unleashing the Ideavirus - Seth GodinThe Sketchnote Workbook30 Day Sketchnote Challenge - the book that never wasMike's Sketchnote Lettering Live WorkshopSketchnote Army PodcastFirst episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast with Mauro ToselliThe Sketchnote IdeabookBook: The Bullet Journal Method - Ryder CarrollCREDITSProducer: Alec PulianasTheme music: Jon SchiedermayerSUBSCRIBE ON ITUNESYou can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes.SUPPORT THE PODCASTTo support the creation, production and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde's bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

Nineteen80 is a management consultancy and creative agency focused on transitions. As a Xennial, I was born in an analog world, and came of age in a digital world. As the world transitions from command and control to distributed teams, analog to digital, concentrated power and wealth to distributed knowledge of the crowd, Nineteen80 seeks to bring the best of both worlds together to create something better.In this episode, I finally talked to Mike Rohde, also a generational cusper and the original sketchnoter.Bio About The GuestMike Rohde is a Principal User Experience Designer and Visualizer at Johnson Controls helping innovate business with visual and design thinking. He's the author of the best selling book The Sketchnote Handbook, The Sketchnote Workbook, and creator of the Sketchnote Ideabook.Episode SummaryIn this episode, Mike and I spoke about...PrototypingSketchnotingTransitioning to analog to digitalCreating The Sketchnote IdeabookConnect With Mike RohdeWebsite - https://rohdesign.comLinkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikerohde/Twitter - https://twitter.com/rohdesignInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/rohdesignYoutube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCe1elri6WQzEOc7tD18EZOgConnect With Daniel HoangMy website - http://www.danielhoang.comMy company - http://www.nineteen80.coFollow me on Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/danielhoangFollow me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/danielhoangJoin The Nineteen80 Membership - https://www.nineteen80.io/signupThank you for listening. Engage with me, join my community by texting (206) 279-6694.Date recorded August 13th, 2020Music from https://artlist.io/This podcast was edited by Naya Moss and Namos StudioSupport the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/danielhoang)

MIKE ROHDE   Hello, I’m Mike Rohde.   I have a passion for visualizing, designing, and communicating ideas.   Designer. I design software, experiences, and services, using a human-centered approach. I seek to understand what users need, so I can design things that are useful and delightful for them. Author. I’ve written two bestselling books on sketchnoting: The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook. Teacher. I lead online and in-person workshops that teach people sketchnoting techniques and build their confidence. Speaker. I give talks on the power and value of visualization. Illustrator. I help authors communicate ideas visually in their books. My work appears in the New York Times bestseller, REWORK and REMOTE, The $100 Startup and The Little Book of Talent. I like to communicate ideas through custom illustrations. Publisher. I’m founder of The Sketchnote Army, a showcase of sketchnoters and their work from around the world. Podcaster. I interview interesting visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick on the Sketchnote Army Podcast. Family man. I’m a husband and father, happily living and working in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Follow me on Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn.     SUPPORT THE PODCAST   This show is brought to you by the Visual Thinking and Sketchnoting Boot Camp online course. This unique and highly practical signature course will teach you all the necessary elements that you need to employ visual thinking for your profession.   With the help of the course, you will boost your thinking and communication skills as well as improve your productivity and effectiveness.   Find more information at https://www.udemy.com/course/visual-thinking-and-sketchnoting-boot-camp/?referralCode=D0574A03FF3E6CADC63F   Subscribe to Yuri's newsletter: http://eepurl.com/gWi_if

On this episode, I speak with my friend and returning guest, Mike Rohde. Mike Rohde is the author of two bestselling books: The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook – and co-creator of the new Kickstarter project, The Sketchnote Ideabook. He presents workshops around the world that encourage people to use visual thinking skills to generate, capture and share ideas more effectively. This episode is brought to you by Zapier. When you’re running your own business your to-do list is never-ending. You know you could automate many of the tasks you do, but you don’t know-how. That’s where Zapier comes in. And right now through November, you can try Zapier free by going to our special link. Just visit http://zapier.com/timecrafting (http://zapier.com/timecrafting) through November 2019 and get a 14-day free trial of Zapier - and tell them The Productivityist Podcast sent you! This episode is brought to you by the University of California Irvine Division of Continuing Education. Established in 1962, UCI offers education for adult learners in Orange County. But thanks to technology, their courses and certification programs in various fields are now available worldwide and online for just about anyone who's interested. You can get 15% off of one (1) course by visiting http://ce.uci.edu/productivityist (http://ce.uci.edu/productivityist) then enter the promo code timecrafting. Make sure you take advantage of this limited time offer soon as it is only valid until December 31, 2019 at 11:59 pm. Mike is also the illustrator of bestselling books REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, and The Little Book of Talent. He has been commissioned to create live sketchnotes for conferences and events, including SXSW Interactive, An Event Apart, Summit Series, and the World Domination Summit. We touched on a variety of topics during our conversation, including an industry that he is elated to see embracing sketchnotes, his usage (and the evolution) of The Daily Plan Bar, and all about his latest project: The Sketchnote Ideabook. Talking Points Why did Mike decide to create a notebook when there are so many out there now? (4:23) What does Mike look for in a notebook? (5:48) What has excited Mike most about the rise in popularity in sketchnoting? (10:08) Mike talks about the intersection between digital and analog (14:40) What's happened with The Daily Plan Bar since the last time we spoke (20:18) Where does Mike keep the long-term things he needs to work on at some point? (24:59) Does Mike have plans for more products beyond The Sketchnote Ideabook? (32:20) These are the things that surprised Mike the most as sketchnoting has spread over the years (34:42) This is the one language that Mike is surprised that his books has not been translated into (36:17) Quote "If you looked at everything then you wouldn't have enough lifetime to look at it all." - Mike Rohde Helpful Links https://sketchnoteideabook.com/ (The Sketchnote Ideabook) https://amzn.to/2NQ1kGh (The Revenge of Analog) https://productivityist.com/podcast-mike-rohde/ (The Daily Plan Bar) http://rohdesign.com/sketchnote-typeface (The Sketchnote Font) https://youtu.be/39Xq4tSQ31A (The Sketchnote Mini-Workshop) http://rohdesign.com/ (rohdesign) http://sketchnotearmy.com/ (The Sketchnote Army) Analog isn't going anywhere. It has evolved and will continue to evolve as it finds new ways to take hold in various aspects of our lives. Sketchnoting is an example of this; it's been around for a decade and it keeps growing in popularity. I'm getting back into it myself and you'll be seeing more and more of my work showing that in the weeks and months to come. I encourage you to check out the helpful links to see if sketchnoting will work for you. As far as I'm concerned, the sky is the limit for what Mike has crafted - and continues to craft. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave a rating and/or review wherever you listened to the episode....

Did someone say "Sketchnotes"? In episode 23, I chat with the man who coined the term "sketchnotes", Mike Rohde. This is an exciting one for me because I've really gone down the sketchnote rabbit hole and find this low-tech, highly-cognitive method fascinating. Tune in to hear his insight as well as how, when, and why he began this movement. If you'd like to learn more about sketchnotes, check out his website and make sure you grab a copy of his books, "The Sketchnote Handbook" and "The Sketchnote Workbook". So sit tight, grab a pen and sketchbook, and dig in! Buen provecho!

In this episode, Dr. Heidi interviews Mike Rohde about the changing world of design, visuals in communication and Sketchnotes as a communication tool. Mike Rohde, bestselling author of The Sketchnote Handbook (2012) and The Sketchnote Workbook (2014), and designer. He presents workshops around the world that encourage people to use visual thinking skills to generate, capture and share ideas more effectively. Mike is the illustrator of bestselling books REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, and The Little Book of Talent. He has been commissioned to create live sketchnotes for conferences and events, including SXSW Interactive, An Event Apart, Summit Series, World Domination Summit, and The Storyline Conference. Mike is a veteran designer who creates usable, compelling design solutions for software and web applications. He lives in Milwaukee, Wisconsin with his wife and 3 children. Website: http://rohdesign.comTwitter ID: rohdesign Instagram: rohdesign This episode is brought to you by my wellbeing tech of choice, Oska Pulse. It has helped relieve my chronic pain caused by Lyme disease so that I can get back to work, and life in general. Oska Pulse is a Pain Relief and Recovery Device using Pulsed Electromagnetic Field Therapy (PEMF). It creates an electromagnetic field that pulsates while it modulates the damaged cells to squeeze the toxins out and opens the cells to allow nutrients (potassium, sodium and magnesium) to flow into the cell. The Oska Pulse puts the damaged cells in the best situation to repair themselves and then replicates the electrical signals your body creates to fix the damaged cells. Click here to get yours today with my Ambassador discount. Or enter 2BU as a discount code at OskaWellness.com ShortLink is http://bit.ly/EDS-Oska

Sketchnoting creator Mike Rohde joins us to inform us how sketchnoting can lead to more creativity, more enjoyable work experiences and could help the education system. We discuss Mike's journey to becoming the Godfather of sketchnoting. We look at how it helps us in our note taking in work, school and at conferences. We explore how it might help liberate different thinkers and add to the much need revolution in the education sector. Twitter http://twitter.com/rohdesign Instagram https://www.instagram.com/rohdesign/ Books http://rohdesign.com/books Rohdesign Dispatch http://rohdesign.com/newsletter/ Sketchnote Army http://sketchnotearmy.com Sketchnote Army Podcast https://soundcloud.com/sketchnote-army-podcast Sketchnote Video Podcast (10 episodes) https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCdugvAzY7lZMqV2VguMVPWEzW1aftQ1a Sketchnote Mini Workshop (32 min) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39Xq4tSQ31A&index=2&list=PLCdugvAzY7lbmXLHr2vu2LgZvUdysaeqv&t=173s The Sketchnote Handbook • Free Chapter 4 PDF - http://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/images/9780321857897/samplepages/0321857895.pdf • Free PDF Worksheet - http://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com//imprint_downloads/peachpit/peachpit/bonus/sketchnote_excerpt_merged.pdf The Sketchnote Workbook • Free Chapter 5 PDF - https://www.dropbox.com/s/yj1hx3zk71pgbej/The-Sketchnote-Workbook-Chapter-5-Preview.pdf • Free Chapter 7 PDF - http://ptgmedia.pearsoncmg.com/images/9780133831719/samplepages/9780133831719.pdf Use coupon code SKETCHNOTE for 35% off The Sketchnote Handbook or Workbook at Peachpit.com

G'day folks, today Mike is joined by Matthew Magain from Melbourne Australia. You might recognize his name from the Sketchnote Handbook. Matthew Shares his journey into sketchnoting and then on to 3D sketchnoting. Find out about how adding a third dimension can add (both in quality and challenges) to your sketchnoting. SPONSORED BY The Sketchnote Army Clothing Collection! A variety of t-shirts and sweatshirts available for sale at Teespring that support Sketchnote Army and look fashionable at the same time! http://sketchnotearmy.com/t-shirts SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES: You can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes - https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/sketchnote-army-podcast/id1111996778 RUNNING ORDER Matt's Origin Story from Website design, to graphic facilitation to videos Sketch Group's origins and growth “Good enough for the moment Graphic recording and facilitation as a performance Experimenting on the edges 3D sketchnotes Excitement with some resistance Sharing 3D sketchnotes in different ways The importance of walls and lighting An experience of information Tools 3 Tips Outro TOOLS Neuland Markers - https://us.neuland.com Graphic Facilitators guide by Brandy Agerbeck - http://www.loosetooth.com/gfg/ Cintiq - http://www.wacom.com/en-us/products/pen-displays Procreate App - https://procreate.art HTC Vive - https://www.vive.com/ Google Tilt brush - https://www.tiltbrush.com LINKS Matt on Twitter - https://twitter.com/sketchgrp Matt's blog post about VR Sketching - https://www.sketchgroup.com.au/blog/vr-sketchnoting-bringing-conversations-to-virtual-life Cognitive media's Animated Sketchnote of Dan Pink's TED talk, Drive - https://youtu.be/u6XAPnuFjJc Sketch Group website: http://sketchgroup.com Web Directions - https://www.webdirections.org Links on Google Poly to Matt's VR sketchnotes from the Web Directions Summit conference: Chris Messina - https://poly.google.com/u/3/view/41qBWkQ8tKH Amélie Lamont - https://poly.google.com/u/3/view/9da-r8ULRgM Genevieve Bell -  https://poly.google.com/view/aGHfuxtdW0J Dan Rubin - https://poly.google.com/view/aGHfuxtdW0J 3D Sketchnote videos: Genevieve Bell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcKf3D9PJE- Amélie Lamont: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byRP0RcyedE Graphic Gear website (launching early 2018!) -  http://graphicgear.com.au MATTHEW'S 3 TIPS Share your sketchnotes Sketch a podcast practice large scale sketches (not just small scale) PAST PODCAST SEASON LINKS Season 1 - https://soundcloud.com/sketchnote-army-podcast/sets/sketchnote-army-podcast-season Season 2 - https://soundcloud.com/sketchnote-army-podcast/sets/sketchnote-army-podcast Season 3 - https://soundcloud.com/sketchnote-army-podcast/sets/sketchnote-army-podcast-1
 Special thanks to Christopher Wilson for the show notes - @mrchrisjwilson https://twitter.com/mrchrisjwilson

This week I'm joined by Oscar Campo is a professor at a university in Cali, Columbia. He got into sketchnoting to help him take better notes at his church and pay more attention to the sermons. Later, Oscar started incorporating sketchnotes into all of his life including his work at university. Although he has no artistic training, he creates beautiful images within his sketchnotes. SPONSORED BY The Sketchnote Army Clothing Collection! A variety of t-shirts and sweatshirts available for sale at Teespring that support Sketchnote Army and look fashionable at the same time! http://sketchnotearmy.com/t-shirts RUNNING ORDER Intro Oscar's origin story Sketchnoting at University (Professors make the worst students!) Sermon Sketchnoting Observing like an artist (or engineer) Tools Noteshelf app Trick: Hiding layers! 3 Tips LINKS Oscar on Twitter - https://twitter.com/OscarCampo_ Oscar on Facebook - http://facebook.com/oscar.campo Oscar on Instagram - https://instagram.com/oscampo Mike's Sketchnote Handbook - http://rohdesign.com/handbook TOOLS Noteshelf app for iOS - http://www.noteshelf.net/ Apple Pencil - https://www.apple.com/lae/apple-pencil/ iPad Pro 9.7 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad_Pro Any pen! Procreate app - https://procreate.art/ Comic Draw App - https://plasq.com/apps/comicdraw/ios/ Linea App - http://linea-app.com/ Whink app - http://whinkapp.com/ OSCAR'S 3 TIPS Don't compare your sketchnotes to other people's Tools aren't important, Information is. Share your sketchnotes with the world PAST PODCAST SEASON LINKS Season 1 - https://soundcloud.com/sketchnote-army-podcast/sets/sketchnote-army-podcast-season Season 2 - https://soundcloud.com/sketchnote-army-podcast/sets/sketchnote-army-podcast Season 3 - https://soundcloud.com/sketchnote-army-podcast/sets/sketchnote-army-podcast-1
 Special thanks to Christopher Wilson for the show notes - @mrchrisjwilson https://twitter.com/mrchrisjwilson

In this episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, Mike is joined by two very special guests. His wife Gail and Professor Michael Clayton as they recap the first International Sketchnote Camp in Hamburg. Listen in! SPONSORED BY The Sketchnote Army Clothing Collection! A variety of t-shirts and sweatshirts available for sale at Teespring that support Sketchnote Army! http://sketchnotearmy.com/t-shirts RUNNING ORDER Intro Michael Clayton's experience Breakdown of the events Gail's experience Turkish food at Mr Kebab! After the conference Michael at the Berlin VizThink - https://mobile.twitter.com/theiskbt/status/912576950362918912/photo/1 THE EVENT Michael Clayton's perspective of the event Gail's experience of the event The post event dinner on the feuerschiff Saying goodbye Planning for the next conference Parting thoughts Name change? End credits Special thanks to Christopher Wilson for the show notes! 
INTERNATIONAL SKETCHNOTE CAMP LINKS Hashtag #ISC17HH International Sketchnote Camp website -https://sketchnotecamp.wordpress.com ISC Twitter Account - https://mobile.twitter.com/sketchnote_camp Twitter feed of the event - https://twitter.com/search?q=%23isc17hh&src=typed_query Instagram feed of the event - https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/isc17hh/ NIST MEET UP Twitter hashtag - https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=%23snsymp17&src=typed_query Instagram hashtag - https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/snsymp17/ Sketchnote Army Podcast episode live at the NIST Sketchnote Symposium -https://t.co/10ynVZ3LsK?amp=1 Rob Dimeo - https://mobile.twitter.com/Rob_Dimeo THE FAB FOUR Katharina TheisBröhl - https://mobile.twitter.com/theiskbt Marianne Rady - https://mobile.twitter.com/MarianneRady Andrea Brücken - https://mobile.twitter.com/dieHauteCulture Diana Soriat - https://mobile.twitter.com/DianaSoriat 
 PEOPLE MENTIONED Claire Ohlenschlager - https://twitter.com/claire_ohl Luis Gonzaga - https://mobile.twitter.com/LuisGonzagacom Chris Malapitan - https://twitter.com/chriskem Marc Bourguignon - https://twitter.com/100978Marc Mauro Toselli - https://twitter.com/xLontrax Mario Foglia - https://twitter.com/foglia_mario Connie Eybisch-Klimpel - http://meinroterfaden.de Kristina Friedrich - https://mobile.twitter.com/Tineko42 Tanja Wehr - http://www.sketchnotelovers.de - Sabine Schultz - https://mitp.de/BUSINESS-MARKETING/Sketchnotes/ Holger Nils Pohl - https://twitter.com/HolgerNilsPohl Eva-Lotta Lamm - https://twitter.com/evalottchen Ines Schaffranek - https://twitter.com/pheminific Karl Damke - https://twitter.com/karlcdamke Didier Daglinckx - https://twitter.com/didierdaglinckx Loraine Kasyan - https://twitter.com/lorrainekasyan Karen Forkish - https://twitter.com/kforkish 
SATURDAY CAMP Location of ISH - www.dialogue-in-the-dark.com/locations/venue/hamburg/ Hanseatic League - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League_ MITP - http://www.mitp.de Mike's keynote - https://t.co/LHi3YonuvM?amp=1 BarCamp format - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BarCamp?wprov=sfti1 Photo of sessions plan - https://mobile.twitter.com/MrChrisJWilson/status/911508571774439425 Digital list of sessions - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1353C34qqfhe1ZIRGItK7lxdauMZ4M_9_4O3ZvJxGWSM Hank's talk on whiteboard animations - https://mobile.twitter.com/KatjaBudnikov/status/911528521142603776

 DINNER Fireboat restaurant by the Elbe river “feuerschiff” - https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g187331-d1356052-Reviews-Light_Vessel_13-Hamburg.html Peanut butter footballs - https://mobile.twitter.com/EattheBall Mauro as Sketchnote Smurf - https://mobile.twitter.com/profclayton/status/922275550768648192 
 TOOLS Neuland markers - https://eu.neuland.com Workvisual app - http://www.work-visual.com/app/ The Sketchnote Handbook - http://rohdesign.com/handbook/ The Sketchnote Workbook - http://rohdesign.com/workbook/

Creativity Matters Episode 254: a real-time flip through of the Sketchnote Handbook by Mike Rohde, a MUST-HAVE book if you are interested in sketchnoting!

Mike Rohde is the bestselling author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook. He presents sketchnoting workshops around the world that encourage people to use visual thinking skills to generate, capture, and share ideas more effectively. In this awesome interview, we talk about sketchnoting, including what it is and how to do it. And […] The post 150: How Visual Thinking Helps You Remember More and Be More Creative with Mike Rohde appeared first on TCK Publishing.

For this episode, I went out and pursued hard so I can chat with Sketchnote creator, Mike Rohde. Mike is a sketchnoter, designer, illustrator, self-professed techy, author, and speaker who is fond of simple yet impactful design solutions. A sample of such is the Daily Plan Bar which he created to make task management more manageable. Our discussion involves the origins of the Daily Plan Bar, how he came up with it and the other systems he utilizes to manage his work tasks and his home life. Specific points we've chatted and Mike shared: How his intention to get the most of his day, avoid distractions and just get away from the computer prompted him to maximize analog tools and create the Daily Plan bar (2:15). Whose systems influenced and were integrated to create Mike's Daily Plan Bar (4:43). How he incorporates digital with analog, with his outlook calendar playing the master role from which he extracts the details of his daily plan bar (7:00). Dealing with too many tasks, prioritizing which ones to do in the day, how Mike reminds himself of what needs to be done or focus on (8:55). How to make a Weekly Plan Bar that integrated with the Daily Plan Bar, and how this allowed him to prioritize his tasks and see the week at a glance (11:40). Situations when a weekly plan may not be as helpful nor practical to maintain (14:07). How Bruce Lee's principles based on martial arts may be applied to productivity and life (17:30). The length of testing Mike has done before he released the Daily Plan Bar for public consumption (18:58). What products Mike uses and how he recommends to do and utilize the Daily Plan Bar effectively (20:40). Mike's simpler task-management and journaling practices for home and personal purposes (22:20). His stand on the analog-digital debate, the apps he uses, and how he prefers to do his task management (24:00). The World Sketchnote Day and how to be a part of it (27:00). Relevant Links https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321857895/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=vardyme-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=0321857895&linkId=9be509cf43e99529f34ce764bc6c5bb3 (The Sketchnote Handbook by Mike Rohde | Amazon) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/013383171X/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=vardyme-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=013383171X&linkId=f0df577159eb582460bc257dc8b92988 (The Sketchnote Workbook by Mike Rohde | Amazon) https://player.fm/series/workflowing/57-everyday-sketchnoting-with-mike-rohde (Everyday Sketchnoting with Mike Rohde | The Mikes on Mic) https://medium.com/rohdesign/the-daily-plan-bar-357972361096 (The Daily Plan Bar by Rohdesign | Medium) http://plannerhack.com/ (Planner Hack) http://patrickrhone.com/dashplus/ ( The Dash/Plus System | Patrick Rhone) https://productivityist.simplecast.fm/5 (The Best Kind of Paper Pushing | The Productivityist Podcast ) https://productivityist.com/podcast-deborah-lefrank/ ( The Staying Power of Sketchnotes with Deborah LeFrank |The Productivityist Podcast) http://www.matthewlang.net/2017/02/20/weekly-plan-bars/ (Weekly Plan Bars | Matthew Lang) https://www.baronfig.com/?utm_expid=74550967-8.0iZJWFgdSoK_MHRbCz6dlw.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.ca%2F (Tools for Thinkers | Baron Fig) http://www.1101.com/store/techo/en/ (Hobonichi Techo 2017) http://rohdesign.com/ (Mike Rohde's Books on Sketchnoting | Designer Mike Rohde) https://twitter.com/rohdesign (Mike Rohde (@rohdesign) | Twitter) https://www.instagram.com/rohdesign/?hl=en (Mike Rohde (@rohdesign) | Instagram) http://sketchnotearmy.com/ (A Showcase of Sketchnotes | Sketchnote Army) The Daily Plan Bar is something you might wanna try whether you're using it solely or integrating it with digital systems. I will also went into the nitty gritty of the paper-digital divide https://www.patreon.com/posts/9660367 (in this bonus episode available on...

Mike Rohde is de peetvader van sketchnotes. Hij is een ontwerper, auteur en illustrator. Hij schreef twee boeken de Sketchnote Handbook en The Sketchnote Werkbook. In deze Power Talk spreek ik over sketchnotes en waarom ze voor jou zo interessant zijn,  habits en journaling. Ik daag je uit om je eigen sketchnotes met inzichten van deze aflevering te […]

https://www.pensamientovisual.es/apuntes-visuales-sketchnotes-doodles/ En este episodio veremos unos conceptos fundamentales de aprendizaje aplicando el pensamiento visual. Pero antes, recuerda visitar la web pensamientovisual.es para acceder gratis a la intranet formativa con el ABC del Pensamiento Visual, así como ver este episodio por escrito e incluso un curso. Hoy te voy a presentar: Apuntes visuales, sketchnotes o doodles. ¿realizas apuntes visuales? ¿te gustaría mejorar tu auto-aprendizaje o el de tus alumnos con nuevas técnicas visuales basadas en sketchnotes o doodles? ¿quieres repasar tus propios apuntes de un modo más entretenido y eficaz? Si quieres mejorar tus apuntes, y así también aumentar tu capacidad de recordar conceptos e ideas, sólo tienes que convertirlos en apuntes visuales que no te den pereza revisar más tarde, y que además permitan ser revisados más rápidamente. Convierte tus apuntes propios, y/o fomenta entre tus alumnos… la realización de apuntes visuales! Lo que denomino aquí como apuntes visuales, también podríamos etiquetarlo del siguiente modo: Sketchnote: fomentado por Mike Rohde en su libro The Sketchnote Handbook. Sketchnotes son notas visuales creadas a mano, y con una mezcla de palabras, tipografías, dibujos, formas y elementos visuales como líneas y recuadros. Doodles: defendido por Sunni Brown en su libro The Doodle Revolution. El Doodle o garabateo, es una herramienta increíblemente poderosa y por ello necesitamos una nueva definición del garabateo: hacer marcas espontáneas que nos ayuden a pensar. ¿cuál es el origen de los Apuntes visuales, sketchnotes o doodles? Los “apuntes visuales” son a mi entender muy necesarios, por ser el único modo de poder recordar y entender la información de un modo rápido y eficaz, incluso ayudando a nuestra mente a recordar más información y/o buscar asociaciones. Los “sketchnotes” son para Mike Rohde un nueva forma de poder tomar apuntes de charlas, de un modo resumido, divertido y que fomenta centrarse en la grandes ideas, dejando atrás la frustración por intentar plasmar absolutamente todo en un cuaderno infinito. Para Sunni Brown los “doodles” son una herramienta básica para poder aprender y enseñar, y que es innato a todos nosotros, como un canal a través del cual las personas acceden a niveles más altos de alfabetización visual.

In this turnabout episode, fellow sketchnoter Rob Dimeo asks me the questions: about my training and current role as a full-time designer, my views on the definition of a sketchnote, how important building community is, which 3 people have influenced me, and 3 tips for sketchnoters. What a blast! SPONSORED BY The Sketchnote Army Clothing Collection! A variety of t-shirts and sweatshirts available for sale at Teespring that support Sketchnote Army and look fashionable at the same time! http://sketchnotearmy.com/t-shirts SHOW NOTES Mike on Twitter - https://twitter.com/rohdesign Rohdesign - http://rohdesign.com MATC Design Department - http://www.matc.edu/media_creative_arts/degrees/graphic-design.cfm Gomoll Research + Design - http://gomolldesign.com Rohdesign Dispatch, my email newsletter - http://rohdesign.com/newsletter/ The Sketchnote Handbook - http://rohdesign.com/handbook/ The Sketchnote Workbook - http://rohdesign.com/workbook/ 30-Day Sketchnote Challenge book cancellation - https://medium.com/@rohdesign/30-day-sketchnote-challenge-book-update-92db39132310#.v5my6c74b 30 Day Experiment Sign Up - https://docs.google.com/a/rohdesign.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeiPUUEYZFdbbE9FOnPdron0KfwJmIkHiERyXvhWHI64l6WvA/viewform Meadowbrook Church Sketchnotes & Podcasts - http://www.mbctosa.org/messages/ This is Meadowbrook brush sketch video - https://vimeo.com/186299807 Paper by 53 - http://www.fiftythree.com/paper The Sketchnote Video Podcast - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fi3kHDs0rg&list=PLCdugvAzY7lZMqV2VguMVPWEzW1aftQ1a Shantell Martin's 53 Paper Course - https://www.skillshare.com/classes/design/Digital-Drawing-Workout-The-Art-of-Subtraction/1511544034 Catherine Madden Sketchnoting Course - https://www.skillshare.com/classes/design/Visual-Thinking-How-to-Create-Sketchnotes-to-Capture-and-Synthesize-Content/1400097522 Jeffrey Zeldman - https://twitter.com/zeldman Eva-Lotta Lamm - https://twitter.com/evalottchen Nikki McDonald - https://twitter.com/nikkimc

Aired Wednesday, April 10, 2013. Episode 40 Mike Rohde, author of “The Sketchnote Handbook” shares with us how taking notes using simple drawings “to amplify and clarify ideas.” Anyone can improve retention of information using these simple techniques, you don’t have to be an artist or a designer.

In the sixth episode of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, I talk to Nikki McDonald, the editor of my two bestselling books: The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook. We discuss book origin stories, and why we think their timing, structure and design details helped them resonate with readers so effectively. SHOW NOTES Pearson - https://www.pearson.com Von Glitschka - https://twitter.com/vonster Rocky Nook - http://www.rockynook.com The Sketchnote Handbook German - https://mitp.de/BUSINESS-MARKETING/Sketchnotes/Das-Sketchnote-Handbuch.html The Sketchnote Handbook Russian - http://www.mann-ivanov-ferber.ru/books/paperbook/the-sketchnote-handbook/ The Sketchnote Handbook Czech - https://www.melvil.cz/kniha-prirucka-skecnoutingu/ The Sketchnote Handbook Chinese - http://item.jd.com/11571650.html The Sketchnote Workbook German - https://mitp.de/Business-Marketing/Sketchnotes/Das-Sketchnote-Arbeitsbuch.html The Sketchnote Workbook Russian - http://www.mann-ivanov-ferber.ru/books/sketchnoting-na-praktike/ Michael Clayton Podcast EP04 - https://soundcloud.com/sketchnote-army-podcast/professor-michael-clayton-se01-ep04 Stewart Hudnall - https://twitter.com/stewhud David Sparks - http://macsparky.com Dr. Bryan S. Vartabedian - https://twitter.com/Doctor_V Marquette Kohler Center for Entrepreneurship - http://business.marquette.edu/centers-and-programs/kohler-center-for-entrepreneurship Design Thinking - http://dschool.stanford.edu/dgift/ Drexel University Westphal College of Media Arts & Design - http://drexel.edu/westphal/academics/undergraduate/ARCH/ Sketchnote Video Podcast - http://rohdesign.com/weblog/2015/8/26/the-sketchnote-podcast-season-1.html Rob Dimeo Podcast EP02 - https://soundcloud.com/sketchnote-army-podcast/physicist-rob-dimeo-se01-ep02 30-Day Sketchnote Challenge Book Update - http://rohdesign.com/weblog/2016/2/26/30-day-sketchnote-challenge-book-update.html Scribwell - http://scribwell.com Nikki on Twitter - https://twitter.com/nikkimc Nikki McDonald on how to get a book deal - http://blog.officehours.io/nikki-mcdonald-on-how-to-get-a-book-deal/

In this episode of NibSqueak, we talk with Mr. Mike Rohde, leader of the Sketchnote Army, author of The Sketchnote Handbook, and all around awesome guy.

Welcome to the NL Sketchnoting, Graphic Recording, and Visual Thinking podcast where we celebrate the lives and work of visual thinkers and allow them to showcase things they are enthusiastic about!  Today, I'm talking to none other than Mike Rohde, a designer, author, illustrator, and sketchnoter, living in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, with a passion for simple and usable design solutions. Mike is sort of my hero, because as you know: I like to sketchnote.  Interestingly, in this interview, we don't actually talk about sketchnoting until about half-way. We talk first about what got Mike there.  Want to learn more about sketchnoting? Read Mike's blog, his tweets, and of course his books, The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook. Also, check out The Sketchnote Army for examples of awesome sketchnotes around the world of all different skill-levels.  Pro-tip: Sign-up for Mike's newsletter to get tips on sketchnoting and creativity for free!   Want to subscribe to the NL Sketchnoting, Graphic Recording, and Visual Thinking Podcast? Subscribe via iTunes, or Stitcher. Your feedback is appreciated. Please leave your comments in the shownotes. Better yet, send in a voice message so we can put you ON the show! Credits The sounds used for podcast imaging are created by audionautix, musicradiocreative, and premiumbeat. All interviews were recorded in stereo with a Zoom H2N or in double mono with a Marantz Pro PMD661 recorder using a handheld AKG D230 dynamic mic, a Rode NTG2 condenser mic on a boompole, or a KEL HM-1 condenser mic on a mic arm resulting in a 96.0 kHz, 24-bit WAV file. Editing was done on a Macbook Pro using LogicPro X with iZotope RX 4, Alloy2, Nectar 2, and Ozone 6. Post production was done using Auphonic resulting in the final MP3 file for upload to Libsyn and distribution through iTunes and Stitcher.

Mike Rohde is a designer and an author, but he's probably best known for illustrating the 37signals books. Mike is now building his own products: The Sketchnote Handbook, and the Sketchnote Workbook.

David and Katie are joined by Mike Rohde, author of the Sketchnote Handbook, to talk about analog and digital forms of note taking.

The SketchNote Handbook by Mike Rohde

On this week's episode Myke is joined by Mike Rohde to discuss The Sketchnote Handbook and Michael Simmons, to talk about Fantastical for iPhone.