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There’s now only one diesel powered medium sized SUV on the marketand fortunately it will be here for a while – the 2025 Kia Sportage remainsthe last medium SUV with diesel power proving the most popularpowertrain in the Sportage SUV line-up. Diesel power currently represents36 per cent of Sportage sales growing from 30 per cent for most of lastyear. And despite the New Vehicle Efficiency Standard penalties cominginto effect on July 1 Kia suggests the diesel option will remain for sometime, the company able to offset penalties by achieving credits from itspopular EV3 and EV5 models as well as a growing number of hybrids. Thecurrent 2.0-litre turbo diesel remains popular with its 416Nm of torquegiving it a very relaxed performance - well suited to the four-wheel driveonly diesel range. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If Syria does make peace with Israel, it will be the biggest defeat for Hamas

Unsettled weather spreads into parts of the Midwest, Mid-Atlantic, andSoutheast today......Hazardous heat possible across South Florida and South Texas this week......Significant flash flooding possible across portions of East Texas andLouisiana on Thursday...A fairly weak frontal system centered over the Missouri Bootheel continuesto drive wet and unsettled weather east of the Mississippi River today,with several areas of shower and thunderstorm activity noted across theeastern half of the Lower 48. Through tomorrow morning, the StormPrediction Center maintains a Slight Risk of severe weather across theTennessee Valley and over North-Central Florida as thunderstorms organizeand intensify this afternoon. Severe hail and wind remain the primaryconcerns, although a tornado or two is also possible. Isolated flashflooding also can not be ruled out with some of these storms along theslow moving front, with localized rainfall of 1-3" possible.Across South Florida, persistent southwesterly winds ahead of anapproaching mid-level ridge axis will set the stage for very warm weatherbeginning tomorrow, with heat indices exceeding 100 degrees possible.Localized Major heat-related impacts are possible with this round of hotweather through the work week according to experimental NWS HeatRiskguidance. Hazardous heat also will build into South Texas tomorrow andThursday as a warm front returns northward from the Gulf of Mexico,ushering in a very warm and moist airmass into the region.Heat aside, this returning warm front will also set the stage forpotentially significant heavy rainfall across East Texas and Louisiana onThursday as training thunderstorms focus along the frontal boundary. Thecurrent forecast calls for areal rainfall totals of 3-4" (locally higher)in this region, which has seen a near continuous stream of heavy rainfallover the last two weeks and is particularly sensitive to any additionalrain. Accordingly, a Moderate Risk (level 3/4) is in effect on the Day 3Excessive Rainfall Outlook, which suggests numerous instances of flashflooding are likely Thursday into Friday.   

Ford's chief futurist joins The Current Podcast to discuss how preparing for the future is imperative for marketing. Episode TranscriptPlease note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio. [00:00:00] Damian: I'm Damian Fowler. [00:00:01] Ilyse: And I'm Ilyse Liffreing. [00:00:02] Damian: And welcome to Season 9 of The Current Podcast. [00:00:05] Ilyse: And we're kicking off this new season with Jennifer Brace, Chief Futurist at Ford. [00:00:11] Damian: Now, Jennifer has deep roots at Ford. Not only did her father work for the company, but she started working there 20 years ago, first as an engineer. [00:00:20] Ilyse: Now her days are filled with keeping an eye on all things that could impact Ford's business in the future. Everything from AI to the latest consumer trends. Her team is often keeping track of four different futures at once. [00:00:34] We started by asking Jennifer about her title, Chief Futurist. [00:00:39] Jennifer: I'll be honest with you and tell you that, uh, Apparently my future in skills were not intact when I started working for Ford because I would have never expected to be in such a role. That being said, what I do as the chief futurist is I spend a lot of time paying attention to trends and signals, paying attention to [00:01:00] the categories that we refer to as steep, meaning social, technological, economic, environmental, and political. Um, you'll notice I did not mention automotive. That is also by design. And what I like to think of my job is paying attention to all the things that are happening outside of automotive that might come back and impact our business or the environment that we have to operate within. [00:01:24] So, I actually never say that I predict the future, I say instead I help teams prepare for the future. So, Uh, you know, contrary to the, the title of futurist, um, I can't actually see the future. I wish I could. I was disappointed when I found out like the job did not come with a crystal ball that worked or anything like that. [00:01:43] Ilyse: You say that, that does not include automotive. By design, you say. Why is that? [00:01:50] Jennifer: Well, the truth is there's a ton of experts in the automotive space within this company, and I'm happy to lean on them for their expertise and understanding whether it be, [00:02:00] um, the future of, you know, engine propulsion systems or battery technology and things like that. I let them kind of own that space. [00:02:07] And when I want to know more about it, I can talk to them about what they're seeing and how they, they continue to see it evolve. [00:02:13] So a lot of what I do, I like to say that, um, part of our job is to connect the dots so by connect the dots, I mean, if we're seeing something happening, maybe in, education, if we're seeing something happening in mental health. What my job would be to do in my team is we're going to take some time and we're going to say, okay, if we're seeing this happen over here, can we connect the dots to get it to a point where it might come back and impact our business and come back and impact our products or services, um, the environment that we're operating within. [00:02:42] So a lot of the times we're starting at the very high level. Then we talk about how it could impact the market. And then we get to how it could impact Ford or a specific product, depending on, um, what work we're doing at the time. [00:02:53] Damian: One of the questions just based on what you just said, you know, you're sort of looking at current trends. But then how do you kind of extrapolate [00:03:00] from those current trends? A kind of future scenario. And what's the kind of chronology of that? [00:03:05] I mean, what's the time shift? Are you looking out a year, two years? [00:03:10] Jennifer: So the answer is yes. In terms of timeframes, we do look at an array of timeframes. I would think of the one year timeframe is a much clearer. Then say the five or 10 year time frame. So of course, the farther out you go, the more kind of opportunity that the trend could shift or change. [00:03:28] So when we're looking at trends, often what we're doing is number one, we're we have to take data that we see today. Um, but we'll also we'll go back and we'll try to understand whether the trend has momentum. We'll look for other signals to help us Start to quantify that trend for example, if you're understanding where venture capital dollars are being spent or even how many times a term is brought up in, uh, earnings calls, something like that. [00:03:53] So when we're thinking of trends, we're all, my team, we're always trying to add some of that, um, that data element to make sure that we're [00:04:00] proving to ourselves that we're taking it through some checks and, and gateways to ensure that we do believe it's a trend that has some staying power. [00:04:08] And then the other side of that, when we're thinking about how the future might be different, I think of the trends as the things that we feel confident in. We, things are things that we quote unquote know, or we expect to continue moving forward, but the other half of that are, are the things that we don't know, and that's what we would call uncertainties, um, and those uncertainties. [00:04:28] are duly named because they could go in any direction and we don't pretend to know what direction those might go in. We look at both trends and uncertainties, uh, to consider how different futures might play out. [00:04:42] Damian: That's fascinating. And how, given all those different scenarios, do you determine which of the scenarios are the kind of headline scenarios? I mean, I know that you talk about different futures. Do you winnow it down to a specific number of futures? [00:04:58] Jennifer: Yeah. So usually what [00:05:00] we, the way we tend to do it, if we like doing for future matrix, if you will, if you take two critical uncertainties, uh, typically we would pick dependent on the problem. We will pick whatever uncertainties we feel are the most impactful. [00:05:13] So, with the state of EVs, for example, we might look at the regulatory landscape might be one of those where it could become, you know, more stringent or less for that matter. And then we might take another access something say like, um, maybe social acceptance. Of EVs. How's the public feeling about it? [00:05:33] It's kind of a mix of art and science, if you will. [00:05:35] Damian: Do you find that, um, you're ever surprised by something that's gone away? [00:05:42] Jennifer: Yeah. You know, it is a constant. Kind of moving beast, if you will, in terms of where we see momentum and energy. It's rare, to be honest with you, for us to consider something, a trend, we take it through several gateways. So it's rare that it goes away completely. [00:06:00] If it's something that we've considered a trend. [00:06:03] Um, I'm I'm calling it out that way because the way that my team works, we're very Um, scientific with what we consider to be a trend, something that has gone through a lot of gateways for us to believe that it's got lasting power versus something that would be a signal. Now a signal, we don't know what way it's going to go. We don't know if it's got lasting power yet. So it's the type of thing that we would start tracking because it's a signal and we'd want to be paying attention to it. [00:06:28] But, um, the signals don't always grow up to be fully fledged trends. [00:06:33] Ilyse: That's really interesting. I mean, especially when the culmination of all those trends become like four different futures, which is a lot, a lot of futures. [00:06:42] Jennifer: It's a lot to think about, isn't [00:06:44] Ilyse: a lot to look at at once. [00:06:45] Jennifer: feedback sometimes from teams that they're like, but can't we just pick one?  [00:06:51] do we have to think about four? [00:06:54] Ilyse: Yeah, you know, and when you say, um, you guys don't predict but you prepare,[00:07:00] can you explain the difference a little bit [00:07:02] Jennifer: So when it comes to predicting, um, that is saying that we can see the future and this is what it looks like. And the truth is nobody, nobody really has that power. [00:07:13] And that's why we say that we help people prepare because the truth is, if you've made a prediction. And you're wrong. And one of these uncertainties comes up and changes the game. You've put all your eggs in one basket and you're in trouble. I like to say that COVID made our job a lot easier and trying to convince people that betting on a single future could be dangerous, so that is when we're asking teams to be prepared for the future by considering more than one. Uh, more than one scenario. [00:07:45] What we're asking you to do is to kind of recognize where your blind spots might be in your current strategy and how you might pivot if you need to. So it can be used in, you know, in product and, um, in different parts of the business and, and of course, um, also in marketing, [00:08:00] uh, a lot of what we're doing when it comes to the marketing side is trying to understand. [00:08:05] sentiment. So where are people? How are they feeling? What are their needs? How are their, um, how are their needs or sentiments shifting? We'll do things like trying to understand how people feel about Technology like AI is a great, um, a great example that, uh, that we've been talking about quite a bit in the last year or so, uh, and how people are feeling about it and, and understanding where people are at and how we might see that evolving helps us. [00:08:34] Within marketing to understand, um, how consumers might be willing to accept a technology, how they expect it to work into their lives or what they expect out of the brands and the companies that are using a technology, how they expect to hear about it, understand its use, all of those things. So it's understanding where. [00:08:50] where consumers are at, and then starting to think about how, how that might look different moving forward, or maybe how different generations are approaching [00:09:00] it. All of that becomes useful information from a, from a marketing side as we're trying to communicate and connect with our consumers, and, and of course, trying to develop new products and services to meet their needs. [00:09:10] Ilyse: Now, you mentioned COVID and the impact that had, um, and who could have predicted that one? I don't know, maybe you guys did, maybe you knew it was coming up [00:09:19] Jennifer: will say there were lots of warnings. World Health Organization, CDC were certainly warning everybody that pandemics were On the way with how connected we were as a society and, and how, um, how we had seen some signals that the truth is that we saw signals before that there was Mark, uh, MERS, there was SARS, Ebola. [00:09:38] Um, so there were some signals, but most, most would agree that we didn't necessarily take them seriously enough to be prepared. COVID jolted us so much because it was this thing that we all, even though we had, I don't know, maybe just my team, but I think a lot of people would have said, oh, right. I remember that. Oh, I remember that there were some other, um, epidemic type things that [00:10:00] were, that were talked about, but it didn't hit me directly. [00:10:02] So I didn't think about it. Um, But if you really go back, the signals, the signals were there, But I'm not making any predictions on what the next big kind of black swan event will be. [00:10:13] Ilyse: Are there any other, would you say, micro or macro perhaps trends that brands should be paying attention to? [00:10:22] Jennifer: There's a lot of things that are happening that, um, that we all need to be paying attention to. AI, we can't, we can't stop talking about it. Right. It's bringing up a lot of questions, I should say, um, in terms of the way that we operate, the way that we work, the way that we interact and engage with our services, our everything that's around us, [00:10:41] um, the other thing that is very highly connected to that would be trust and how are people. building trust? How are they gaining trust? Do they believe the information that they get? Where is the trusted source of information? what we are certainly seeing from a, um, a high level is that people trust [00:11:00] those around them. [00:11:01] You know, they, they build a trusted circle of friends and family. That's the number one. Number one trusted element in their life is their friends and family and, uh, we continue to see, you know, trusted institutions going down. We are seeing some increases in trust in businesses, but even that has some, some ebbs and flows, big business versus small business or tech company versus, um, versus something else. [00:11:24] I think there's a lot, a lot to be said about how people are feeling in general when it comes to mental health and wellness that continues to be a huge, huge topic. And we do see differences in generations. So we see our younger generations being more likely to say that they have mental health as a stressor, they have more anxiety, they feel lonely more often than our older generations. [00:11:47] Um, the other thing I would say, um, talking about our older generations is understanding how, how they're living. Our boomers are in retirement, but are they really retiring? They're staying super active. They are, they are kind of [00:12:00] redefining, um, their, uh, their golden years, if you will. [00:12:03] Damian: That's really interesting. As a Gen Xer, I feel like, you know, I used to be, uh, the youthful generation, but that suddenly caught up with me, which brings me to my point, which is like, The future is now in lots of ways, and what I mean by that is, are there predictions that you have talked about from five years ago that are now being realized, as it were, in real time, so you can say, chalk that one up to success? [00:12:26] Jennifer: Um, I would say a few years ago, we were talking quite a bit about, um, divisiveness growing in our country and how that might, how that might come into play. But lots of different things with respect to technology and how we see the technologies in our lives starting to, to grow in play apart. I smile a little bit when I say that because I feel like a lot of the conversations I'm in this year, people are talking about AI, like it's brand new thing that we've never heard of before. [00:12:55] And we're suddenly inundated with it. Um, but we've been talking about it for a long time [00:13:00] and even back in 2019 when we asked people about AI, like they were reporting that they didn't understand it or that they were afraid of it and what it could be and what it could do. And we expected that it would continue having a large role in people's lives. And we have certainly seen that, um, grow and more recently kind of, rocket and take off, if you will, as generative AI has taken hold. [00:13:26] Ilyse: So yeah, it seems like you guys knew all along. [00:13:29] Damian: Ha ha, yeah. [00:13:31] Jennifer: I would love, I would love to claim that, but, um, but, [00:13:34] Damian: be modest. Don't [00:13:35] Ilyse: Don't be, yeah, don't be [00:13:36] Damian: modest. You know, we talk about AI, but you know, if you had to sort of pick some other hot topics, as it were, that Ford is, not necessarily hot, maybe they're not hot yet, but maybe they will get hot. But if you had to pick some that Ford is looking at when analyzing these possible futures, are there any? [00:13:52] In your, you know, on your dashboard, if I can use an automotive metaphor that, you know, you're, uh, really focused on. [00:13:59] Jennifer: [00:14:00] I would say topics that we continue to explore, right. [00:14:03] When it comes to, uh, several years ago, autonomous driving was, um, was kind of. A big, big topic that we talked about a lot. And we've seen that evolve a bit, right? So where we're focused more on assisted assistance features, um, continuing to, to help make the drive easier for a driver, um, without, necessarily being able to, to do this full autonomous, uh, Future where we're taking them from, you know, the door of their house to the door of their work without them having to lift a finger. [00:14:33] Um, so we're not there yet. Uh, when it comes to technology. So, so the supportive technologies there, we continue to investigate and we continue to look for ways to make it easier for consumers. So, so leaning into that. [00:14:47] Ilyse: Do you feel, though, that technology overall has kind of caught up with the forward thinking nature of your job? [00:14:54] Jennifer: I mean, absolutely. The good and bad, right, is about technology is that it continues to evolve and it feels like [00:15:00] it's moving faster every day, [00:15:02] often what we say is, it's hard to imagine unimaginable tech because in, you know, 10 or 15 years, if we think of technology as being a thousand times. Stronger or better than it is today. The easiest way we would look for signals might be reading scientific papers. It might be looking at patents often at some of those earlier things that sound almost a little bit weird. years ago, talking robot sounded kind of weird and now. We see examples of that [00:15:34] Damian: Yeah. [00:15:35] Jennifer: place right when we think about AI and chatbots and whatnot. [00:15:40] So if I see something that sounds a little bit. [00:15:43] weird, uh, to try to like squash my immediate reaction of, Oh, that's crazy. Oh, that'll never happen. And instead lean into it and try to understand it and say, well, what happened? What would it be like if that became a thing? [00:15:55] Ilyse: Yeah, you spoke to me briefly for your profile, which is on [00:16:00] TheCurrent. com, and you were telling me a little bit about how AI could eventually work its way into the overall, like, car experience, especially for, like, on the consumer side. [00:16:13] Jennifer: Yeah, sure. So, you know, we're not talking about anything specific when it comes to the technology in our cars, but thinking about it in terms of what we see happening outside of the car and and how that might change the experience. I think that really kind of obvious, easy application is with the way that you are interacting with your car with if you're asking it to do something, being able to have a more natural two way conversation and in a lot of ways, anticipate some of the things that you might need. For example, if you are up, uh, going into the office and let's say you're up an hour earlier than usual or something like that. Wouldn't it be great if your car said, Hey, would you like me to order? Uh, you know, the Venti at Starbucks instead of your [00:17:00] usual ground day? [00:17:00] You're up early today. Creating a relationship or in having it feel like it's almost your friend helping you along, understanding what you need and as, as technologies improve, that is the type of thing I would expect to be able to, to have a, a stronger relationship and for the car to be able to understand, um, not only what you're asking of it, but also to even anticipate What your needs might be as it learns your habits and behaviors and, and starts to, to get smarter. [00:17:30] Damian: Something just occurred to me, you know, I know you're focused on on an automotive kind of scenario. [00:17:35] But do you think about digital advertising and where that's going to? Is that something that intersects with what you think? [00:17:42] Jennifer: There's a lot of questions happening with respect to AI. I think digital advertising is a, is a fascinating space. If we think about ways that AI might help content creation easier. [00:17:52] Um, I would also expect that it would make it easier to connect with specific consumers and understanding what they need or what, um, what might [00:18:00] resonate with them. Understanding, you know, kind of where they're at, whether it be kind of physically where they're at, or even like mentally what space they're in, as we get better understanding of that, I would expect that AI should be able to help with that. [00:18:13] Ilyse: Now, you weren't always a futurist, or even a marketer, you actually come from a background of engineering why did you move into the marketing side of things? And how would you say your engineering background has really helped you in your marketing positions at Ford? [00:18:31] Jennifer: I would say. It was not an expected career move. If I'm honest, it was, uh, an opportunity that came up, uh, when I was in engineering, I spent a lot of time working on our in vehicle technology, on our sync systems, and this was at a time when, uh, I joke we used to always carry like Garmin systems like navigation systems in a bag. [00:18:54] We were carrying them into our cars at the time when I started working on putting a touchscreen directly in the [00:19:00] car and having all of those controls kind of in one spot. I ended up working with our marketing team quite a bit to help them with the communications, both to train our dealers and our customers for how to do these things that were all new at the time. So that was kind of when I got my feet wet with, with marketing was more helping them, uh, because I understood the technical side, but as I've, you know, moved into the marketing organization and understood more about the ways, um, that it is utilized and that it comes into the process, it is super helpful to have a background of understanding the engineering side of the work, and I can help to bring that knowledge into the conversation. [00:19:38] Um, sometimes it's just as simple as, Oh, if we're going and talking to the engineers, let's make sure that we've got data to back up all of these things that we're saying, because. You know, the, that will get them bought in to what we're saying. They don't want to hear a pretty story. They want to see the data. [00:19:53] Damian: When I was growing up, I remember I had this book called The Science in Science Fiction and it explained why certain things were possible in science [00:20:00] fiction films. For instance, you can't see lasers in space. Alright, there was a disappointment to me when I read that. [00:20:05] But my question is, um, you know, you look at the science And you also think about the future. So I'm wondering if you read a lot of science fiction, if you kind of those two things kind of work for you. [00:20:17] Jennifer: Yeah, sometimes. [00:20:18] So I do less of the reading. Sometimes I, I will watch it more just because usually, um, honestly, like. TV and media. They do a great job of pushing our thinking. Like Black Mirror, for example, um, Right. That's a great one. It's, it's kind of a, often it's like these cautionary tales, um, but they really do a good, a good job of taking something that we see today and pushing it into the future and enforcing us to think about how that might happen. [00:20:47] Ilyse: Obviously, a new technology is great and can be helpful, but there can also be, like Black Mirror has shown us, um, some very terrible things that can happen because of those, um, such great [00:21:00] technology. Um, as a futurist, my question to you is, what keeps you up at night? [00:21:05] Jennifer: Where do we begin? Right now, I think it, we are on the cusp of, of some very, um, potentially concerning advancements when it comes to, I think generative AI is a particularly scary one right now because of. How good it's getting at, at faking or at looking and sounding exactly like the real thing. [00:21:29] That one is, is particularly concerning. I think that we're going to see a lot of it. It's a political year here in the U S uh, in terms of the election coming up. So I, I will not be surprised if that comes up often. I'm curious to see how that's going to play out. [00:21:43] Damian: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. [00:21:45] We'll be back next week, so stay tuned. [00:21:48] Ilyse: The Current Podcast's theme is by Love Caliber. The current team includes Cat Fessy and Sydney Cairns. [00:21:54] Damian: Cairns. And remember, [00:21:56] Jennifer: signals don't always grow up to be fully fledged trends [00:21:58] Damian: I'm Damian. [00:21:59] Ilyse: I'm [00:22:00] Ilyse. [00:22:00] Damian: And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report.

Chaz Kangas! Rapper! Journalist! Human! Delight! Much much more! Chaz is a dear old friend who is one of the most amazing freestylers I've ever seen and we have a wonderful freestyle conversation (non-rhyming, you know, a regular conversation) about all sorts of things from hip-hop to mental health and beyond! Enjoy as desired and possible! And also, this is only the FIRST HALF of our chat. For the second half, click on over here to Patreon! Much love, all! Too sweet! PS Check out Chaz's re-released Year Long Spring Break mixtape and also listen to him on http://TheCurrent.org!

Driving Honda's mid-size CR-V SUV – the Japanese car makers best-seller, theCR-V really kick starting the SUV revolution when first released in 1997. Thecurrent fifth generation freshened last year offers five two-wheel-drive modelsand two all-wheel-drive. I drove the two-wheel drive VTi X at $41,500 drive-awayand the top-spec all-wheel-drive VTi LX at $53,200 drive-away – both 1.5-litreturbo four-cylinder driving through a CVT automatic. Let me say at this point thatin mid-size SUV's there's some fresher designs however the CR-V can still holdits head high in the market's most competitive segment. From my standpoint, thetwo-wheel drive models offer the most value and here the VTi X impressed memost – a very well packaged SUV with an impressive cabin. With our current highpetrol prices its 1.5-litre turbo engine runs on 91 RON unleaded petrol whichmany newer designs don't. Interior comfort a high point, great seats, excellent legand shoulder room in both seat rows and good luggage space with a full-sizespare. Some aspects are showing their age like the 7-inch display screen which israther small. Cost of ownership its high point – Honda's Low-Price Servicespolicy - $125 for each of the first five services every 12 months or 10,000 km. I'mDavid Berthon.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

One of the best value small SUV's on the market is Mitsubishi's enduring ASX.The fourth best seller in small SUV's is about to get a refresh next month beforethe arrival of an all new European sourced ASX in collaboration with Renault inMarch next year which will include plug-in hybrid and full hybrid variants. In themeantime, the arrival of a refresh of the current ASX is welcome news. Thecurrent entry model, the ES, available for $28,740 drive-away in automatic. Therefreshed range due next month will see a new entry GS model, the ES gainingmore equipment while the range will still consist of better equipped MR, LS, GSRand Exceed variants. The Mitsubishi ASX first arrived in 2011 it's been faceliftedseveral times and remains a value buy especially with Mitsubishi's 10-year/200,000 km conditional warranty. I'm David Berthon.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Commercial real estate doing much better than after Great Recession; small, independent businesses popping up in malls; great marketing lessons you can learn...from a bidet company; 21 Hats Podcast: Is it fair to say employers take all the risks?

This Is Part Two Of Season 4 Episode 4 Episode 4 tackles the hip hop genre going over Macklemore and Ryan Lewis's album The Heist released in 2012. This album goes over Macklemore's personal struggles and things that are wrong in society. The Heist begins with Ten Thousand Hours and goes into Can't Hold us and Same Love later in early stages of the album. I split this episode into two parts to cut down on time This is part two. Let me know what you think of a two part episode. Instagram at jd4unc. Please rate this podcast, leave a review, and share. Music Credits For This Episode: Intro The Alan Parsons Project Sirius, Ten Thousand Hours, A Wake ft. Evan Roman, Same Love ft. Mary Lambert, Can't Hold Us ft. Ray Dalton, and the Y Thrift Shop ft. Wanz all by Macklemore. The outro Midsummer Madness Instrumental Prko. Sources: YouTube, Thecurrent.org “Album Review Macklemore and Ryan Lewis The Heist” by David Safar, Spectrumculture.com “Macklemore & Ryan Lewis: The Heist” by Jester Jay Goldman, Popdust.com “Macklemore and Ryan Lewis ‘Thrift Shop' Lyrics Breakdown: Is It Really Effing Awesome?” by Popdust Staff, Songfacts.com, and Lyricfind.com.

Episode 4 tackles the hip hop genre going over Macklemore and Ryan Lewis's album The Heist released in 2012. This album goes over Macklemore's personal struggles and things that are wrong in society. The Heist begins with Ten Thousand Hours and goes into Can't Hold us and Same Love later in early stages of the album. I split this episode into two parts to cut down on time. Let me know what you think of a two part episode. Instagram at jd4unc. Go check out part two for Can't Hold Us and the Y as well as the podcast questions. Part two will show up as Season 4 Episode 5. Music Credits For This Episode: Intro The Alan Parsons Project Sirius, Ten Thousand Hours, A Wake ft. Evan Roman, Same Love ft. Mary Lambert, Can't Hold Us ft. Ray Dalton, and the Y Thrift Shop ft. Wanz All by Macklemore. The outro Midsummer Madness Instrumental Prko. Sources: YouTube, Thecurrent.org “Album Review Macklemore and Ryan Lewis The Heist” by David Safar, Spectrumculture.com “Macklemore & Ryan Lewis: The Heist” by Jester Jay Goldman, Popdust.com “Macklemore and Ryan Lewis ‘Thrift Shop' Lyrics Breakdown: Is It Really Effing Awesome?” by Popdust Staff, and Lyricfind.com.

Description: When First Avenue entered bankruptcy on Election Day 2004, some saw it as the end of an era. But others – including devoted employees, local music fans, and a certain stage-diving ally in City Hall – would not rest until they'd saved the club. This is the seventh episode of The Current Rewind's "10 Pivotal Days at First Avenue" season. If you missed the first six episodes, catch up below. • April 3, 1970 (The day it all began)• Nov. 28-29, 1979 (The days that told the future)• Sept. 27, 1982 (Bad Brains/Sweet Taste of Afrika/Hüsker Dü)• Aug. 3, 1983 (The birth of "Purple Rain")• Oct. 22, 1990 (Sonic Youth/Cows/Babes in Toyland)• March 4, 1991 (Ice Cube/WC and the MAAD Circle) Transcript of The Current Rewind season 2, episode 7: "Nov. 2, 2004" Cecilia Johnson VO: Hey, it's Cecilia, host and producer of The Current Rewind. If you're listening to this the day it drops, it's Election Day in the U.S. You may be wondering what a First Ave podcast is doing in your feed, today of all days. Well, first, we wanted to encourage you to vote, if you haven't already. On the flip side, if you're seeking a few moments of respite, we got you. Third, a while back, I noticed a really weird coincidence: This episode takes place on Election Day itself. In fact, some First Ave employees remember frantically working to save their club and having to take a break to vote. It's funny how history rhymes. [

Description: One day after the LAPD beat up Rodney King, an Ice Cube concert went down in history as one of the most violent shows ever held at First Avenue. Hosted by Jay Smooth, we ask rap experts and former First Ave staffers about gangsta rap, security, and the uneasy relationship between the Minnesota music industry and Black hip-hop artists. This is the sixth episode of The Current Rewind's "10 Pivotal Days at First Avenue" season. If you missed the first five episodes, catch up below. • April 3, 1970 (The day it all began)• Nov. 28-29, 1979 (The days that told the future)• Sept. 27, 1982 (Bad Brains/Sweet Taste of Afrika/Hüsker Dü)• Aug. 3, 1983 (The birth of "Purple Rain")• Oct. 22, 1990 (Sonic Youth/Cows/Babes in Toyland) Transcript of The Current Rewind season 2, episode 6: "March 4, 1991" Anne O'Connor: We're talking about almost 30 years ago, but my memory of this was like, you opened up the gate at the horse races, and everybody was off to it. [Ice Cube, "The Bomb," with the lyrics: "With the L, the E, the N, the C, the HThe M, the O, the B, the greatLyrics that make the beat swing and I gotchaIt's the hip-hopper that don't like coppers." Hard cut.] Anne O'Connor: And it was just like an explosion, and it was non-stop all night long. ["The Bomb" picks up where it left off, running through these lyrics: "And if you try to upset the pot, sonYou get kicked in the chest like a shotgunI make the beats, I make the breaksI make the rhymes that make you shakeMake you findIce Cube never caught in the middleI make stuff that kick you in the a** a little." Hard cut.] Anne O'Connor: We just went from one fight to the next fight to the next fight. There was no breathing time. There was no downtime. It was just, "What emergency is there to go and deal with next?" [Ice Cube's "The Bomb" returns with a sample of spoken audio and several voices singing, "The bomb"] Cecilia Johnson VO: Gangsta rap was the most controversial music of the '90s – praised as an expression of Black America's righteous anger, reviled for its misogyny and depictions of violence. Taking cues from Schooly D and Ice-T, Los Angeles group N.W.A popularized the genre with their album Straight Outta Compton. Their most talented rhymer, Ice Cube, left the group to go solo in 1990. In early 1991, he brought his show to Minneapolis's First Avenue, for one of its most memorable nights ever. ["Hive Sound" by Icetep] Cecilia Johnson VO: [over theme] I'm Cecilia Johnson. This is The Current Rewind, the show putting music's unsung stories on the map. For our second season, we're looking back at one of the Twin Cities' – and the country's – greatest live venues through a series of pivotal nights. We're bringing on guest hosts for several episodes. In this one, Jay Smooth – the New York hip-hop radio legend and cultural commentator – joins us to tell the story of one of the most infamous shows in First Avenue's history. I do want to warn you: This episode contains explicit accounts of racism and violence. [rewind sound effect] Jay Smooth VO: Way back in 1991, I founded New York's longest-running hip-hop radio show, WBAI's Underground Railroad. It was a pivotal time for hip-hop music, when it was still just beginning to cross all sorts of cultural boundaries. And the other love of my musical life back then was the Black Minneapolis Sound, as defined by Prince and his many collaborators – who, in their own way, were on a similar path of bringing Black music into spaces where it hadn't necessarily been all that welcome. So, as a devoted student of Prince and hip-hop who came of age in that era, the First Avenue club and its relationship with Black music, and hip-hop, specifically, has always been an object of fascination for me. And though it was primarily defined as a rock club, First Avenue did host a number of high-profile hip-hop shows in the '80s and early '90s, according to someone who saw a lot of them. Tim Wilson: Timothy Wilson, Urban Lights Music owner. Jay Smooth VO: Tim's record store, Urban Lights, is a community hub in the Midway neighborhood of St. Paul. Tim Wilson: I remember seeing Run-D.M.C. I remember they had Jam Master Jay kind of suspended in the air, swinging back and forth, and they couldn't jump around on the stage, because the records were skipping and stuff like that, but they still made it through. I remember going to KRS-One; the sound crashed and he literally had one of his people beat box, and he continued to perform. [Tim laughs] Jay Smooth VO: On top of the big names from out of state, Minnesotan hip-hop acts the Micranots and the I.R.M. Crew sometimes performed in First Ave's smaller room, the 7th Street Entry. Still, it would take a while for the club's overall attitude to change, from what sound engineer Randy Hawkins, in Chris Riemenschneider's book First Avenue: Minnesota's Mainroom, called, quote, "anti-rap." The non-white population of Minneapolis grew nearly 70 percent during the '80s. But hip-hop took longer to bloom in the Twin Cities than on the coasts, partly because the success of Prince, the Time, and Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis made funk the sound du jour there in the '80s. One of First Avenue's most successful dance nights was More Funk, every Thursday with the club's longtime DJ Roy Freedom. Prince and Jimmy Jam would sometimes bring test pressings for the occasion. Tim Wilson also DJ'ed there. Tim Wilson: You know, it was disco, funk, rap, kind of all mixed up into one hodgepodge. It was just a little bit of hip-hop at the time, because rap just hadn't really – hadn't really captured the imagination of the world, let's say it like that. It wasn't the Wall Street darling that it is today. So it was a record here, a record there, but it was just a lot of Minneapolis Sound stuff. Of course you would get a lot of Prince and people like André Cymone, the Girls, Ta Mara & the Seen, Alexander O'Neal. Dan Corrigan: More Funk with Roy Freedom? We used to call it More Fights with Roy Freedom – ha! Jay Smooth VO: Dan Corrigan has been First Avenue's official photographer since 1995. These clips are from a 2003 interview he did with Pete Scholtes of City Pages. Dan Corrigan: There was one night, there was the biggest fight I've ever seen down there. It was just crazy. It started on the dance floor and kind of went around the right and spilled all the way out to the entryway. Jay Smooth VO: That brawl took place in 1990, during More Funk's fifth anniversary. Randy Hawkins told our writer Michaelangelo Matos about that night. Randy Hawkins: The fifth anniversary of [More] Funk night it was a similar situation of losing control of the club. There was a few times where it was like, "We've lost control of this." Jay Smooth VO: Now, this kind of thing didn't happen very often. One reason for that is First Avenue's security system. Sabrina Keith: There's, like, a light switch at various locations throughout the club, like emergency buttons you press if something goes wrong. Jay Smooth VO: Sabrina Keith was a bartender, stagehand, and superglue employee of First Ave, working on and off from 1988 to 2004. Sabrina Keith: And you flip the switch, and let's see, upstairs, a central light goes on. It's, like, a siren light – a red siren light. And then, I think, at the front door there might be one, as well. And then, you look over to the side of the stage, and there's many lights of many different colors, and hopefully just one of them will be spinning, and that would be – that gives you an idea of where the trouble is. And actually, just the other day, me and another old employee were talking and can remember pretty much where all the trouble lights are. It's really disturbing. [laughs] I shouldn't know that green means pool tables, which means it's by where the current coat check is and no more pool tables. Jay Smooth VO: The origin of the so-called "trouble lights" is still fresh in Richard Luka's mind. He had been recruited to work security in 1975, when the club was still called Uncle Sam's. You may remember him from the Ramones and Pat Benatar episode earlier this season. Richard spoke with our producer, Cecilia, and First Ave's longtime general manager Steve McClellan. Richard Luka: The reason for that light was that in March of 1977, I was working alone. We'd purged a lot of people out of there at that time. Uh, there was all this new staff. They really didn't know anything, and I was all alone at the front door with the cashier, and a bike gang came to the door. The Iron Cross from northern Minnesota. And I had to card these guys, and I thought, "Oh my god, I can't – what am I gonna do here?" And I just – there was, like, six of them. I just said well, I guess I'm letting them in. And it turns out a few more came in, so we had like nine bikers in there who took their coats off. They were flying their colors in there. Steve McClellan: What show was it? Richard Luka: No, this was like a Saturday night in 1977, and I remember one of our regular customers, a guy named Tiger. He was Black, and he had a shaved head and these guys surrounded him. They were rubbing his head, saying, "I wish I had a watermelon," and I was like, "Oh my god, this is gonna get out of hand." And at the end of the night, they were just rude and belligerent to people. And [Tiger] came up and he said, "What on earth did you let them in here for?" I go like, "I was gonna get the s*** beat out of me. It's like I'm up here all alone." And they said, "Okay, we're putting a light in." So they installed this light, and a year later, the bike gang came back, but we had hired all new staff. [Steve and Richard laugh] We had some bigger people there, and I hit that light and people were right there, and these guys, they threw their jackets off and they were ready to go, and the police showed up. So that is what can happen at the front door. You never knew what was gonna show up there. Steve McClellan: Oh, the first light that he's talking about, my brother Kevin installed. When did we put in the different colors? So if it was the game room, it would go off green, and when it was – Richard Luka: It was, like, 1983, I'm gonna say. Steve McClellan: Yeah, that much later. The first one was '77, '78. And that was sufficient, and then we had to do a system that people wouldn't go to the front door. They would go to the game area, the upstairs, or bar five. So we had like a six-light sequence that would go off. Jay Smooth VO: Along with the trouble lights, the seriousness of First Ave's security earned it a reputation in town, according to Tim Wilson. Tim Wilson: People go through the usual First Avenue bulls*** when you go to First Avenue. You know, they look at your license and turn it upside down and flip it and flop it, pat you down, and you walk in. It was always one of those things like, oh man, don't go to First Avenue with a fake ID. Don't try to sneak in First Avenue. Their security doesn't play. And it's still the same thing. People get turned away. Sabrina Keith: One point that as always made kind of clear at First Avenue was, we're not bouncers. And we don't ever want to be called bouncers. We are security. We're just trying to make things better. We don't want to bounce you. We don't want to be mean to you. We don't want to beat you up. We just want you to have fun, and I've never understood why people go out and don't have fun. It's like, "Why are you starting stuff? You paid however much money to get in here, so have fun." Whether you kick them out or whether you put them back, it's up to how they act. I mean, I had one kid come up to me five years after the fact saying, "Oh my god, it's you," and I'm like, what are you talking about. "You kicked me out of Nine Inch Nails." I'm like, "OK." [laughs] I'm glad that was a great memory for you. [Sabrina and Michaelangelo laugh] Jay Smooth VO: The club's security staff have long been trained to de-escalate situations, according to a longtime staffer. Anne O'Connor: My name is Anne O'Connor. I worked at First Avenue for two different time periods in the 1990s. [pause] I mean, de-escalation can work in any setting. It really can. You have to keep your head. My strategy was always to get in between the people who were really upset, because they almost would never go after me. And so that would at least create some space. When people are hot-headed, a lot of times all they really need is to step back for a second and say, "Wait a minute, do I really want to do this?" And that's the kind of thing that we would say. [Ice-T's "Body Count" starts fading up] Anne O'Connor: And sometimes that didn't work at all. [Anne laughs] [Ice-T's "Body Count" plays for about 20 seconds] Jay Smooth VO: In February of 1991, First Avenue hosted one of its occasional rap shows: Ice-T, the revolutionary Los Angeles MC with sharp storytelling and a steely voice. That show was one of two he'd perform in Minnesota that year; he also came through St. Paul's Harriet Island on the Lollapalooza tour. And each time, Ice-T didn't just rap – he sang with an all-Black metal band called Body Count. Sabrina Keith told Michaelangelo about hanging out with that group. Sabrina Keith: It was just fun, because it was Ice-T, and he was doing metal, which, like, with Body Count, there's just not a lot of Black artists doing that. And we had Blake working at the club, who's basically the exact same thing, just not, you know, Ice-T. And so it's fun, it's novel and just a bunch of big guys, and they had really cool merch, and they wanted like our First Avenue jackets because we were all wearing them and I think it was cold then too. Michaelangelo Matos: February. Sabrina Keith: Yup, that's cold. [laughs] Jay Smooth VO: Ice-T and Body Count would see more than their share of controversy a year later, in 1992, when they released the song "Cop Killer." But in 1991, there was no more controversial figure in rap, or in music, than Ice Cube. He'd been the primary lyricist for N.W.A, who had debuted in 1989 with the iconic album Straight Outta Compton. Soon afterward, the FBI sent a letter to N.W.A's record label to complain about the lyrics of songs such as "Eff Tha Police" – lyrics that had mostly been written by Ice Cube, who was only 20 years old. But Cube felt like he wasn't getting his fair share of royalties, so in 1990, he and his friend and producer Sir Jinx went to New York to collaborate with the hottest producers of the time, The Bomb Squad. The Bomb Squad, featuring Hank Shocklee, Chuck D, and Eric Sadler, were Public Enemy's sample-heavy production team. With their help, Ice Cube finished his first solo album, AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted, and released it in May of 1990. He followed it with the Kill at Will EP in December. No rapper was hotter right then, as Tim Wilson recalls. Tim Wilson: That was good Ice Cube: AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted, one of my top five albums of all time. He left N.W.A, got politically conscious, and then there was just the whole thing with the group and the break-up, and then he went out east and hung out with Chuck D and Public Enemy, and they produced that album, and it was just – it was the hot album at that particular time. That particular album bridged gangsta rap and politically conscious material all into one project. You know, he was gassed up and ready to go. Jay Smooth VO: Ice Cube didn't lead a lifestyle as violent as his lyrics would suggest – like a lot of rappers, he'd rhyme in character. But some of his fans did carry the things he rapped about carrying, as John Smith, who would join the First Avenue staff in 1993 and is still a DJ and bartender at the club, would discover. DJ Smitty: First Avenue started using metal detectors. When you saw the metal detectors, it wasn't, "Oh, this is a new thing they're doing." It's like, "Oh, Ice Cube is coming." And then earlier that week, before the show, I was at Northern Lights Records, and I overheard some clerks talking about how they had overheard some kids talking about trying to stash some guns in First Avenue before the Ice Cube show, so that they would circumvent the metal detectors. Those were the people who first made it apparent to me that this was not gonna be business as usual. The record stores, I guess, were getting phone calls and whatnot – because we weren't a Ticketmaster club, [so] if you wanted to buy tickets for a First Avenue show, you had to go someplace and buy them. I think the Ice Cube crowd was a crowd that didn't necessarily know where to buy our tickets. So it was kind of that, where we realized, "This isn't just gonna be shiny happy hipsters going to a rap show. This is gonna be real." Jay Smooth VO: Anne O'Connor worked roaming security that night. Anne O'Connor: As the staff, we would get together and talk about what we were gonna do. And then what ended up happening is we hired in a bunch of extra additional security people. For about a week before the shows, we had metal detectors at the door so that people couldn't bring guns of knives or anything in and stash them in the club, so that they could use them during the shows themselves. You know, these were guys who, their show was about raising people's anger about some really unfair situations, about calling out some things that were really wrong, and so people had a tendency to get pissed. So we knew that, and we had to be ready for that. And the Ice-T show, I feel like we managed to do that without huge problems. We didn't have huge problems that night. When you put together people with loud music, lots of drinking and lots of young people dancing – body contact – you're really just setting a stage for some conflict. There's gonna be some conflict sometime. Jay Smooth VO: Ice Cube's March 4 appearance was, in fact, two shows – an all-ages in the late afternoon and an ID-only show at night. This was a regular occurrence at the club throughout the '90s. Sabrina Keith: I know for the first show, I did coat-check, so it was pretty mellow. Everybody thought the kids' show was gonna be bad, and it just was not. Jay Smooth VO: There was one issue during the all-ages show: Somebody threw a bottle over the upstairs balcony, where alcohol was allowed. When Ice Cube finished the first show, the club took two hours to change over. Sabrina Keith: You have to clean up and kind of reset everything to start the night fresh. I think they bought us pizza, and we just kind of hung out and waited. Jay Smooth VO: Rod Smith was bar-backing that night – running liquor from storage to the bars. Rod Smith: The attendance at the all-ages show was healthy, but nowhere near sold out. At the ID show, attendance was sold out-plus. I believe you've encountered the phenomenon where somebody in the office would panic about ticket sales and just start slamming comps out indiscriminately. A ton of comps had gone out, and then a ton of people paid, so attendance [laughs] was way over the top. DJ Smitty: We got there for the ID show. We walk in. First thing we figured out pretty quick was, we weren't gonna get any help, because anything with a counter, whether it was a bar or whether it was coat-check – they were busy. It was packed. It was full, and there were people yelling. There were people who were not happy with the order that they were being helped. There were people who were not happy with the prices. There were just a lot of not happy people. It was wet outside, and it was hot in there, which made it hot and wet – like a cave. The walls were sweating. The men's room had an inch of water going on, on the floor. There was a bad vibe. Jay Smooth VO: Our sources couldn't pick out one specific point where the fights started. But according to Anne, once they started, they didn't stop. Anne O'Connor: It was just bam-bam-bam. It was just non-stop, so you didn't really have time to stop and think, "Wow, this is really overwhelming; I don't know if I can do it." You just did it. The place was packed. There were so many people there. So if you were – if you couldn't get to the trouble light, that's one thing, but also if the trouble light was already going, you'd have a fight five feet away from you. Well, five feet in a packed room could be – it's a lot of feet to get to, sometimes – [laughs] you know – to get through the bodies and get to the actual fight, you're not always gonna make it. Rod Smith: These melees would just randomly break out. The outside security people that First Avenue hired did an outstanding job, because they were really aware of what was going on mood-wise in the club, and as soon as something broke out, they would start heading toward it. But, again, the problem being there was a certain amount of distance in the Mainroom, and when the club is that packed, you can't move that quickly. They were moving pretty quickly, though. So these fights were being stopped, for the most part, like, pretty quickly after they started. But they didn't really stop. I'd say they continued pretty much through the night. DJ Smitty: As a customer, I knew about the trouble lights, and I'd seen them go off in the past. I had never seen all of them go off at the same time. Rod Smith: I believe there were 27 all told, and there were incidents that didn't even prompt the trouble light, because nobody could get to a trouble light, because the club was that packed. Jay Smooth VO: Randy Hawkins worked the barricade in front of the stage for both shows. Randy Hawkins: There was three of us – four of us all in the barricade, and we had to stay there. Unless the situation was right in front of you on the floor, of which there were many, we did what we could from inside the barricade, but mostly the roaming security of people on the dance floor dealt with that stuff. And so it was like, it turned into a pretty serious us-against-them scenario, and like as far as security vs. the audience, which, you never want to get in that situation. But every time a door got opened, there'd be three people trying to bum-rush the show. But every time like a side door or anything got opened to let someone in, you had to have security at each one, basically just to defend the castle. It was kind of the same way with the barricade and every bar – just people trying to take everything they could take. Yeah. There was all sorts of, just grab whatever booze you could grab. Rod Smith: I encountered bartenders and bar backs crying back by the coolers, and that happened multiple times. The bar backs, because they'd been sucker-punched, and the bartender, because people kept I mean, there was some real ballers there, and they tipped really well, but then these wannabes would come along and steal the big tips that somebody else had just left. And it was so busy that it was impossible for the bartenders to really keep track of what was happening with their tips. Anne O'Connor: You know, we called the cops several times. We carted several people out to the cops. When you are in a fight at First Avenue, what ends up happening is you get surrounded by staff. Michaelangelo Matos: Quickly. Anne O'Connor: Quickly. And so, you know like, there's nowhere to go. Jay Smooth VO: But the cops weren't particularly soothing that night, or any other. In fact, just the night before, on March 3, 1991, a Los Angeles motorist named Rodney King was pulled over and beaten mercilessly by the LAPD. A man with a camcorder filmed the incident and sent it to a local TV news show. The Rodney King video wasn't yet national news when Ice Cube played First Avenue – that would be in a few days still. But for most people at the show, police brutality wasn't just something they heard about in rap songs – chances were, many of Ice Cube's fans knew someone it had happened to, if they hadn't experienced it personally. Anne O'Connor: What I would say is that there were a lot of valid reasons for being upset, and this was a place for them to have that upset, and sometimes that upset meant that they wanted to hurt someone. And so I'm not justifying the behavior or excusing it, but I'm just saying it was not a big surprise. When I say nobody got seriously hurt, I mean like broken bones or injuries that . . . Michaelangelo Matos: Hospital injuries. Anne O'Connor: Hospital injuries. It was a rough night. It was a rough scene. It was a very violent show, so I don't want to underplay that. Jay Smooth VO: Urban Lights owner Tim Wilson was in the audience that night – and he remembers seeing an opening group that included a rapper who would top the pop charts four years later. Tim Wilson: I remember a group called WC and the MAAD Circle, which was one of Ice Cube's groups – Dub-C who still tours with Cube. And Coolio was actually part of the group at that time. Crazy Toones was the DJ, which was Dub-C's brother. I remember they kept having sound problems. And they kept telling the sound guy, like, "Man you better fix this or we're gonna have a problem." And they would keep rapping, keep doing their thing, and then they would warn him again, and then the sound never changed. I think they warned him a third time. And honestly, what I remember is them jumping off the stage, breezing past us, and I remember – I never understood why First Ave set their soundboard – they had those steps that go down, and then they set their soundboard where, unfortunately, the way he kind of got jumped on, he ended up down in the crevice at the bottom of the stairs and where the soundboard started. And they were kicking him and hitting him until they got pulled off and back onto the stage. They just kind of shot past us and jumped on him. Then they jumped back onstage, and they kept rapping, and the sound man wiped the blood off his face and he just kept going. Jay Smooth VO: DJ Smitty, who couldn't get into the Sonic Youth concert last episode, did make it in the door for Ice Cube. He says the mood perked up when the headliner took the stage. DJ Smitty: People never talk about the fact [that] that was a great show. Ice Cube – I'd go see him again in a heartbeat. One of the best hip-hop shows I've ever seen. But a friend of mine did get close enough to the stage to see the set list and came back and said, "We're going. We're two songs away from the encore. Let's get out of here." And as we left, I had to hold the door open because they were stretchering someone out. [Ice Cube ft. Chuck D, "Endangered Species (Tales From The Darkside) - Remix"] Rod Smith: Management lost control of the club, too. Everybody lost control of the club. Steve McClellan: All I know is it was hateful because you couldn't – you got 1,500 people in the room. You could have 50 security staff. You don't stand a chance. There was so many people ready to quit after some of these shows. Jay Smooth VO: Anne O'Connor was one of them. Anne O'Connor: I put my notice in shortly after the Ice Cube show. I remember thinking, that is the violence that I don't need to be a part of. And I love the club, I loved the people I worked with, it was a lot of fun, but that wasn't fun for me. Rod Smith: A lot of people were really bummed out. I had quit smoking eight months earlier, and I started again that night. The mood overall was, "We got through it." A few people were traumatized. Anne O'Connor: We were worn out. And it was hard. And I remember everyone feeling pretty rough at that point. It was pretty rough. Jay Smooth VO: The show also got First Avenue in trouble with the city, not for the first time. Steve McClellan: I had too many incidents where the police wouldn't respond when I would book gangsta rap. I used to go to monthly downtown – what do they call them? – downtown association meetings or something. Where I'd go and I'd sit, and when you went to these meetings, and if you were a nightclub, the fire department was there to tell you exactly what you do to keep your license. The police department would be there monthly and tell you exactly what you needed to do to keep your license. They were more like – "This meeting isn't to ask questions. We're the city and you're gonna do what we tell you." Jay Smooth VO: Despite the complaints about gangsta rap, the next First Ave show that'd see similar violence was a 1995 appearance by a singer-songwriter whose politics could not have been further removed from Ice Cube's. Randy Hawkins: There's a country singer – oh my god, what's his name? Outlaw country singer. David Allan Coe. At the time, that was show two that had as many problems as Ice Cube. That David Allan Coe show, I think it wasn't as well attended. I got probably there was probably 800 people there, and so I don't think we ever really lost control of it, but it was definitely getting there. I came in the next day and everybody was just, like, shell-shocked: "You will not believe what we were dealing with last night." Jay Smooth VO: Chris Riemenschneider, author and longtime music reporter at the Star Tribune, suggests that the Ice Cube show is remembered as a turning point. Chris Riemenschneider: The biggest myth about that show – well, I don't know if it's a myth, but I mean, supposedly that show was – hip-hop was not booked at the venue for many years after that show, because it got so ugly. And they generalized over, "Well, hip-hop audiences are bad news." Jay Smooth VO: When we asked Steve McClellan and LeeAnn Weimar whether First Avenue avoided hip-hop after Ice Cube, Steve said that he still booked rappers through agents he trusted. Steve McClellan: There was a lot of drug dealers that were trying to bring me shows, because they had connections with the agent, and they wanted to bring in a lot of these hip-hop acts. LeeAnn Weimar: Or they had beepers. Remember, they had beepers. Steve McClellan: I called them the beeper phone promoters. In the '90s, I stopped dealing with beeper phone promoters that had plenty of cash but no trust from me. Jay Smooth VO: Steve returned to this point several times throughout the interview, insisting that if there was a lapse in hip-hop shows, it was only because he didn't want to work with so-called "beeper phone promoters." Whatever the case, First Avenue generally avoided hip-hop until the late '90s, according to Chris Riemenschneider. Chris Riemenschneider: It really wasn't until Rhymesayers and Atmosphere came along and started packing the place that they started giving hip-hop a good chance there again. Jay Smooth VO: Nationally, hip-hop had been ebbing into the mainstream for years. In Minnesota, indie rap label Rhymesayers capitalized on that shift. In the late '90s, they started throwing Soundset Wednesdays, a series of hip-hop dance nights at First Avenue, and their audiences trended whiter and whiter. At the same time, First Avenue opened the gates to touring acts such as OutKast, Eminem, Public Enemy, and the Black Eyed Peas. ["Hive Sound" by Icetep fades up and plays for a few seconds] Cecilia Johnson VO: Ok, so this episode was a whopper. And I think the material of this episode is still so relevant today. At this point, I want to bring up an article that rocked Minnesota music in 2016. Like, I still remember, the day that it came out, reading it at my desk. It's the Twin Cities Daily Planet's piece "Whitest hip hop scene you've ever heard of," written by Kayla Steinberg, and it speaks directly to the aftershocks of the Ice Cube show. I'm just gonna read a few somewhat abridged sentences: Quote, "When out-of-state and mainstream media and fans refer to Twin Cities hip hop, Rhymesayers Entertainment is often their point of reference. The common faces of Rhymesayers include Brother Ali, an albino Muslim rapper who identifies as white, and Atmosphere, a duo of racially ambiguous, arguably white-passing, hip hop artists. However, to Toki Wright, a Black North Minneapolis rapper, these are just a couple faces of the Twin Cities hip hop scene. "I think the face of Twin Cities hip hop is a 14-year-old kid on the Northside of Minneapolis in his bedroom, making beats or writing rhymes," he said. "The face of Twin Cities hip hop is Lexii Alijai recording with Kehlani and the local press turning a blind eye to it. That's Twin Cities hip hop." Enquote. Later in the article, Black rapper MaLLy talks about his experience at the Rhymesayers 20th anniversary show in 2015. The way he remembers it, many audience members went from supportive, when white artist Brother Ali rapped his song "Dear Black Son," to apathetic when Toki Wright and I Self Devine, both Black rappers, proclaimed messages such as "eff the police" and "kill white supremacy" on stage. Some things haven't changed between '91 and now, but First Avenue [itself] has undergone a monumental shift, in the way they operate, what causes they stand for, and whose names are at the top. It's all covered in our next episode, which is about Election Day in 2004: the day First Avenue declared bankruptcy. This episode of The Current Rewind was hosted by the one and only Jay Smooth and me, Cecilia Johnson. It was produced by me and Jesse Wiza and scripted by our head writer, Michaelangelo Matos. Marisa Morseth is our research assistant, and Jay Gabler is our editor. Our theme music is the song "Hive Sound" by Icetep. This episode was mixed by Johnny Vince Evans. And I wanna give a super special thank-you to Rick Carlson, Shelby Sachs, David Safar, Pete Scholtes, and Chris Wilbourn for additional support. If you want to check out a transcript of this episode or any other one, you can go to TheCurrent.org/rewind. And if you feel so moved, you can go ahead and rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts or tell a friend that it's out there. If you want to share any thoughts, feedback, or First Avenue stories, our inbox is open. You can just send an email to rewind@thecurrent.org. The Current Rewind is made possible in part by the Minnesota Legacy Amendment's Arts and Cultural Heritage Fund. It is a production of Minnesota Public Radio's The Current. The Current Rewind goes to First Avenue

Nov. 28-29, 1979: The days that told the future Disco was the ticket at Uncle Sam's in the late '70s. But the club's destiny changed course in Nov. 1979, when the Ramones and Pat Benatar rocked the Mainroom on back-to-back nights. In this episode, hosted by Zoo Animal's Holly Hansen, we learn how First Ave became a rock 'n' roll sanctuary. This is the second episode of The Current Rewind's First Avenue season. If you missed the first one, catch up here. Transcript of The Current Rewind season 2, episode 2: "Nov. 28-29, 1979" [Pat Benatar, "Heartbreaker"] Mark Wheat VO: [over Benatar] It's 1979, and Pat Benatar is on stage at Uncle Sam's, jumping up and down with a microphone in her hand. The crowd has been waiting for this one, the single from her new album, and as the guitar builds, so does the energy on the floor. ["Heartbreaker" fades up for a few lines, fades down while Icetep's "Hive Sound" fades up] Mark Wheat VO: Like most emerging rock stars, Pat is wearing all black — and behind her, a guitar crunches through the chorus. From the dance floor to the balcony, people are cheering and nodding to the beat. For us, this is a glimpse of the past — but people at that '79 Benatar show were seeing the future. As Pat performed at the Uncle Sam's disco in downtown Minneapolis, the club's corporate management had their eye on an exit. Thanks to her and others, the venue's next chapter would turn out a lot less Saturday Night Fever and a lot more rock and roll. I'm Mark Wheat. This is The Current Rewind, the show putting music's unsung stories on the map. For our second season, we're exploring the history of First Avenue, the downtown Minneapolis venue that has become one of the Twin Cities' — and the country's — greatest clubs. In our first episode, we covered the beginning of First Ave's life as a music venue...which hit a few bumps right away. When the Depot filed for bankruptcy in the summer of '71, it stayed closed for a year — before an out-of-town company turned it into a disco. That scheme stayed alive until 1979, when two rock shows — the Ramones and Pat Benatar, playing back-to-back nights — set the table for First Avenue's future. For this second episode, we're excited to introduce Holly Hansen, the musician behind Zoo Animal. Holly will help us tell the story of First Ave's second incarnation — as a suburban disco in the middle of downtown Minneapolis — and the people who, in 1979, turned it into a, quote, "New Wave Experience." [rewind noise] Holly Hansen VO: The two most vivid memories I have of First Avenue both involve intimacy, but in very different ways. I was standing at the side of the stage during a Kevin Drew show, and a stagehand made eye contact with me and waved me over. Next thing I knew, I was slow-dancing with Kevin on stage, thinking, "Why me?" I seriously think there are many people in that room who would've loved to be on that stage holding his sweaty body, but here I was, simply being a good sport. [Zoo Animal's "Black and Charred" fades up, plays under VO] Holly Hansen VO: A few years later, I released the Zoo Animal album Departure, some of the most personal music I'd ever written, and the release show was at the 7th St Entry. I don't know how to explain what was going on that night, but it felt very different. It was so quiet and focused; it was like the audience took up part of the weight of the songs. I had never felt so connected with an audience before or since. I feel myself at First Avenue because it's ready for any experience, always centered on music. It's a place where no matter who you are or what you like, the audience and performer can be one. In the late 1970s, First Ave wasn't known as a venue for intimate performances. And then punk happened. Back in the summer of 1972, the Depot had been shut down for a year. Then, in July, it reopened under new management. Instead of a black exterior, the former Greyhound station was now painted red, white, and blue. The Depot's owners hadn't sold the company, but American Avents, a company based in Cincinnati, took over its operation, turning it into one of several Uncle Sam's franchises throughout the U.S. Chris Riemenschneider: I think they had like eight or nine by the time that Uncle Sam's opened here. Holly Hansen VO: Chris Riemenschneider is the author of First Avenue: Minnesota's Mainroom. Chris Riemenschneider: And in fact, the first year or two of the Uncle Sam's, they struggled a bit early on, apparently. But one of the things that really helped it was in maybe about '75 or '76, they changed the liquor law to — Minnesota went from 21 to 18 and up, drinking, and obviously, that was a big boost to the place. Andy Sturdevant: By the late '70s, you've got the heyday of kind of the seedy downtown Hennepin strip. Holly Hansen VO: Andy Sturdevant is the co-author of the book Closing Time, a history of Twin Cities bars. Andy Sturdevant: Like, that's the place that you're talking about when you're going to school and the taunt that you hear is, "Aw, your mom works on Hennepin!" This is that era. And so, you've got that whole strip, and there's still a couple of bars just barely hanging on from that older era. But you've mostly got strip clubs; you've got porno shops; you've got clubs. That's where the gay bathhouses are. Holly Hansen VO: And Uncle Sam's was one of the roughest bars near the Hennepin strip. The manager was a U of M dropout named Steve McClellan. Steve McClellan: My name's Steven McClellan, and I worked in a nightclub downtown from 1973 to 2004. [4:00] Holly Hansen VO: Steve met with The Current Rewind's producer, Cecilia Johnson, for two separate interviews. For the first, he brought LeeAnn Weimar, First Avenue's former director of marketing. For the second, he came with Richard Luka, who started as a doorperson and ended up designing First Ave's logo. Steve had a story about everyone. [supercut of Steve McClellan exclaiming names: "Dave Ahl. Tom Spiegel! Cara Lewis. Gary Rue! Pat Lyons. Kevin Sadowski [ph]. Mark Downey!"] Holly Hansen VO: And as you might hope, Steve McClellan is one of live music's biggest fans. One of his favorite quotes is from Frank Zappa: "Once you record it, you've sold out." He says he picked up this attitude as a college kid. Steve McClellan: I'm a West Bank guy. I remember when people would go to the West Bank when I was going to the U. I lived on the West Bank from '68, '69 to '73. And you had five, six venues doing live music. Holly Hansen VO: Steve was on the West Bank attending the University of Minnesota, but dropped out in the mid-'70s. Before that, though, he started working the bar at Uncle Sam's. Steve McClellan: My feeling is in '75 they put me in management training. I had been bartending probably since late 1973. And after they sent me to the management-training thing, I was ready to go back to school. I was fed up with the corporate nature of it. And then I came back, and I was pulled out of training early because Pat Lyons, who was managing Minneapolis at the time, got promoted. They pulled me out of training and gave me First Avenue. Holly Hansen VO: Even after Steve's promotion, he and his bosses didn't always get along. Steve McClellan: You wanna get me on a rant when I put the first black doorman at the door when American Avents hated it, and all the people involved couldn't believe I had a black doorman? Ah, women in management — I put a woman named Marsha Lear in the Uncle Sam's management program, and I wish I could find her again, because I owe her an apology. American Avents was totally not gonna have a female manager back in the '70s and I realized I sent her — I went through their management program. It's a good old boy network. I hated it. But looking back and seeing how their management meetings went and all that, it would be like you were being run by a — I never went to a fraternity, but back in college I always thought they were kind of a weird group — frat guys. Pretty elite group, they drink a lot of beer. And my image of that whole upper management at American Avents reminded me like they were all from Buffalo, New York. It was one big frat running the company. Holly Hansen VO: The music at Uncle Sam's was largely DJs playing safe pop hits, as dictated by the national office. Chris Riemenschneider: They had this deal where there would be DJs with a live drummer, and this was actually where Bobby Z, later of Prince and the Revolution, first played the club. He was like 18 or 19, on dance night, and, you know, just playing along to recorded music. They used to have another guy, Denny Craswell, who performed with a jungle theme. He had drums built like into, like, logs — it was like this jungle vibe. Pretty cheesy stuff, from what I can tell, but it was a big hit. They only had concerts once in a while — they would bring in some local and regional stuff. And then later on, after McClellan got a little more involved, in the late '70s they brought in stuff that was more Top 40 . . . [Starland Vocal Band's "Afternoon Delight": "Skyrockets in flight/Afternoon delight"] Chris Riemenschneider: . . . that stuff didn't do well. Holly Hansen VO: One feature at Uncle Sam's that brought repeat business was its Sunday-night teen dances. One of the regulars there was the future Time member and hit-making producer Jimmy Jam, as he told Pete Scholtes of City Pages in 2003. Jimmy Jam: Yeah, it was a disco, and it was packed, man. I know they had at least a thousand people every Sunday. There was a crowd, that was sort of a roller skating crowd that I used to hang out with at the Roller Gardens, and I think the Roller Gardens was like a big Friday night thing. So you'd go to the Gardens on Friday night, and Saturday there was a whole lot of different options, and then Sunday was always Uncle Sam's. But it was a lot of the same people you'd see, just kinda from my circle. I went to Washburn High, and so all sort of that crowd from there. But really, the crowd came to Uncle Sam's from everywhere. I mean, back when Hopkins was really a suburb and like seemed like it was on the other side of the world, kids from Hopkins and Minnetonka and Wayzata, and it was basically like a sort of a melting pot of races and ages, but mostly a lot of cute girls, and it was just a fun place to hang out. Holly Hansen VO: The history of disco is complicated, and although it has roots in black and queer culture, Uncle Sam's' version was decidedly mainstream. Chris Riemenschneider: At that point, it really wasn't city kids as much as a lot of the suburban kids were coming downtown to hit Uncle Sam's. It kind of was that kind of place, yeah, a little bit more of a shot bar kind of vibe, and that's when they had the Firecracker drinks, which apparently was just basically red food dye or red coloring and vodka. Nobody talks about those drinks fondly, but for some reason, they were ubiquitous there, and people still have the Firecracker glasses, which I guess goes with the patriotic Uncle Sam's idea. Holly Hansen VO: Most of the bands that played Uncle Sam's did covers. But there was the occasional local band playing originals. The Suicide Commandos, one of the Twin Cities' first punk groups, formed in 1974. Later, the Commandos would become regulars at a new club called Jay's Longhorn, where Peter Jesperson worked as house DJ. Peter Jesperson: It opened in June of '77, and I think the DJ booth - it was a Naugahyde disco unit that they rented until they built a booth for me in the corner. But at the time, yeah, we rented this Naugahyde disco thing with flashing lights that we never used, and it was on wheels so it wasn't very sturdy, and people would bump into it and records would skip and I'd be screaming at people. Holly Hansen VO: The Longhorn was where you went if you lived in the Twin Cities and identified in some way as "punk." Bands that played there included Talking Heads, Elvis Costello, the Police, and the B-52's. The Longhorn was a world away from Uncle Sam's. Steve McClellan: I kind of really felt an outsider to that whole Longhorn scene. I was not part of it. Holly Hansen VO: But soon, Steve would hire someone who was. Kevin Cole: I'm Kevin Cole. I am chief content officer at KEXP in Seattle. Holly Hansen VO: Kevin was a Longhorn regular who worked at Hot Licks, a record shop downtown, where one of his coworkers was a young Jimmy Jam. Kevin Cole: I was hired in '78. I worked at First Ave/Uncle Sam's from '78 to '91. I was brought in to help usher in a change, and I was a total misfit for the club at that time. It was a pretty mainstream suburban Saturday Night Fever-type disco, and that era was starting to die. And I think also in part because Steve Egsgard, the DJ who had kind of reigned supreme during that '70s disco heyday, was leaving, so they needed a DJ. I remember going to the back door and meeting Steve. At that time I — Joey Ramone was my idol, so I looked like one of the Ramones — long hair, ripped jeans, tennis shoes. And Steve and I had a great conversation, but I didn't know, really, how it went. And then like a week later he called and he's like, "Hey, can you start in like two days?" So I think they had a need. [Kevin laughs] Holly Hansen VO: In fact, they did. Steve McClellan: I could tell American Avents, at the time, was already planning on dumping Minneapolis, but didn't tell anybody. That's my gut feeling when I look at paperwork and stuff. So that brings us through the turmoil in the transition from Uncle Sam's to Sam's. We were kind of just dumped. Allan was jilted. Holly Hansen VO: That's Allan Fingerhut, who still co-owned the club at that point. Steve's plan was to bring Jack Meyers, a lawyer who Steve knew from Catholic school, on board for damage control. Steve McClellan: When American Avents pulled out and Allan was deciding to have both Byron and Mel Orenstein, the attorney, telling him, "Close the club, we can't lose any more money," there was two of the big hoops I had to hurdle. I do remember I took a half cut, [of] whatever American Avents was paying me at the time, because I wanted to add Jack to the management team. And then of course, American Avents pulled out by sucking all the money out and putting no improvements in. So when we had taken over the club, we were like $60,000 in debt with no backup revenue source. That's a huge amount of money. Holly Hansen VO: Money was the big difference between Steve and Jack's management styles. Steve McClellan: I always wanted to spend money. Jack always wanted to save money. And that was our whole working relationship. I had just taken over as manager, and I started getting bills from people for stuff that happened in '70 and '71. And I couldn't — this is at the time American Avents had pulled out. If there's any reason for that club being open financially, it would be Jack. He went through years of stressful deposits and non-deposits and the financial end. LeeAnn Weimar: It went to, replacing light bulbs was an issue sometimes. Steve McClellan: Oh yeah, because we had the big fluorescent tubes that were expensive and just putting them up was a pain in the butt. Holly Hansen VO: The turning point for Uncle Sam's came on November 28, 1979. That night, Steve had booked the Ramones. It was the New York punk heroes' third show in the Twin Cities. Peter Jesperson, the Longhorn DJ and co-founder of Twin/Tone Records, who also worked the counter at the Lyndale Avenue record store Oar Folk-joke-opus, saw the first. Peter Jesperson: Oh, you know, Kelly's Pub in '77. But of course, I was at every Ramones show I'm sure they ever did in Minneapolis. We did in-stores with them when they were in town at Oar Folk for each of the first three albums. By the third time the Ramones were there, I think that we had several where they got so crowded the police came, and that was one of them because people were spilling out all over the corner there at 26th and Lyndale. They got bigger each time, and some people came because they were a curiosity, and other people came because they were just such a great band. But they were super nice. They were so friendly - loved hanging around the store, [and] they all bought records. Holly Hansen VO: The one time Jesperson skipped seeing the Ramones was in November of 1978, at the St. Paul Civic Center, when they opened for Foreigner. The longtime Minneapolis Tribune critic Michael Anthony remembers cringing at that show. Michael Anthony: What it suggested to me was an elemental truth about pop music and the venue — how important the venue is because their brand of punk, those short quick tunes, works only in a club. It has to have a small thing and boom-boom-boom-boom. You can't do that in a big cavernous room. Whereas Foreigner wrote music that was meant to be played in an arena. Holly Hansen VO: But the Ramones didn't just sound better in a club. Their whole vibe felt better in a smaller room. Punk rock was a tight-knit subculture, and McClellan responded instantly to its do-it-yourself ethos. He booked the Ramones and Pat Benatar on consecutive nights, through the booking agency Premiere in New York. He says this was a total coincidence. Steve McClellan: Now understand that I got along with very few major agents at the time, but both of those shows came from a guy named George Cavado [ph] at Premiere Agency, which was, at the time, Premiere had Bruce Springsteen. That's how I got my U2 dates, was through Premiere. George was an exception to the rule. I hated the big agents. They were so pretentious — arrogant. George wasn't. Holly Hansen VO: Steve didn't get along with several booking agents in town. He also struggled to work with the Minneapolis Police Department. This becomes a key part of the story once the Ramones show up at Uncle Sam's. Steve McClellan: When I took over as management, the Minneapolis Police Department were the security there. At that time, you needed them. Otherwise, if you had trouble, you couldn't — they wouldn't come to you. But it was a Drink and Drown night, one of those pay $5 and get a dime drink [nights]. There was one night when the police kind of overreacted. Something they had instigated blew up and they had fights on the street — 7th Street. There was, like, 22 arrests. The police just started arresting people. And as it turns out, a lot of was, they were just arresting people without merit, and they ended up dropping it all. But the city officially decided we were a club that the Minneapolis Police could not work for, unless they were bonded, and we couldn't afford bonding. It was ridiculously too expensive. But I breathed a sigh of relief, 'cause I couldn't tell them what to do. Holly Hansen VO: From then on, Uncle Sam's had to hire its own security staff. Enter Richard Luka, who worked the door from '75 to '93. Richard Luka: At the time, I was a competitive bodybuilder and on the track team of the U of M. I was 260 pounds, and they had a Wednesday night Drink and Drown night, where you pay $5 at the cover, and drinks were a dime. So I came in and I walked in and I looked around and somebody said, "Hey, you — would you like to work here?" And I said, "Do I get free drinks?" I said, "Okay, all right." [Steve laughs] Steve McClellan: We were just hoping we could keep it open another day. Richard Luka: Okay. Alright. Yeah, just don't beat anybody up; just don't drink too much. That's all it was. Steve McClellan: When people came in for security, A, they always assumed we wanted a bouncer. I took the term "bouncer" out of the job descriptions after American Avents left. They wanted big bouncer guys to be on staff. And remember, we inherited a police force that were bouncers. That was their job: kick butt. And they took seriousness in it, back in the Mayor Stenvig days. They were the best bouncers you could have, because they were armed and they had a whole police force they could call. But the way they handled security stuff was not what you wanted. MUSIC: "Blitzkrieg Bop - Live at Rainbow Theatre, London, 12/31/77; 2019 Remaster" Holly Hansen VO: Working security at the Ramones and Pat Benatar shows changed Richard Luka's life. Richard Luka: About that specific night, it was seeing disco one night and then all of a sudden, "Who are these people in the black leather jackets and the green hair? Who the hell are these people?" And this band comes out and I'm thinking, this is just gonna be like any concert. They're gonna do a couple of songs and then they're gonna slow it down. It was like [Richard laughs] they're not slowing this thing down! This crowd is crushing us, and they're yelling and screaming, and people are climbing over us, and we're looking for people trying to spit on them. And at the end of it I said, "This is so awesome." [Richard and Steve laugh] And my ex-wife was there, and she was totally into disco. She looked around and said, "These people are disgusting. Disco's never gonna die." And she said, "I'm expecting you home immediately," and she left and I went, "F*** you. I'm gonna help the band load out." And I helped the Ramones and their road crew load up, and I stayed there until like three in the morning. They gave me a Ramones t-shirt, and I wore it to work the next day, and then I had to show up the next night for Pat Benatar. Holly Hansen VO: The Benatar tickets cost $1.92. That in itself was unusual — Uncle Sam's usually didn't have a cover charge. LeeAnn Weimar: Yeah, but Pat Benatar was a sex symbol then. She was a rock chick, and every guy I knew wanted to see that show. Steve McClellan: I still say it was a really good show. LeeAnn Weimar: I'm sure it was. Steve McClellan: Live show-wise, and I didn't understand the Ramones because they had no radio play. Why did they sell out? LeeAnn Weimar: She's still out there doing it. Well, because the Ramones were the Ramones. Steve McClellan: I didn't know that. Holly Hansen VO: Kevin Cole DJ'd both shows. Kevin Cole: At that point in time, it was still the old-school Uncle Sam's DJ set-up, which was on the stage. So during the Uncle Sam's heyday, the DJ would be on the stage; there'd be dancers on the stage; a lot of times, there'd be a drummer on the stage drumming along to whatever the DJ was spinning. I'd be spinning before they went on, and when it came time for the band to play, [I] would make the announcement and literally duck. And I would just sit back there onstage as the band was playing.And both were really incredible high-energy shows. I remember after the Pat Benatar show, getting them to sign this standup from the store. And it was pretty funny. They wrote something like "Keep rockin' into the '80s, man." [Prince's "Head"] Holly Hansen VO: The same week as First Avenue's first Ramones show, a young Minneapolis R&B singer performed his first headlining concert away from home. On November 26, 1979, Prince performed at the Roxy in Hollywood. Before they went onstage, Prince told his group, "I'm going to personify sex in every possible way." That tour, he debuted the song "Head," a risqué, as-yet unrecorded track influenced by the New Wave. [Prince's "Head" fades up, plays for a few seconds before fading out under Holly's voiceover] Holly Hansen VO: Uncle Sam's was ready to embrace a new wave, too. Back home, the Ramones and Pat Benatar shows did so well that Steve McClellan won a prize. Steve McClellan: This is where I got an award one year, because I did Pat Benatar and the Ramones the same week and they both sold out, and I was the highest-grossing of all fifteen clubs for that one week. Now, that is not really amazing when you consider admission prices and stuff, and when you do two $1,500 shows. Holly Hansen VO: The two shows also set the stage for Kevin Cole, along with DJs Roy Freedom and Paul Spangrud, to revamp First Avenue's dance nights. Kevin Cole: It was a real transitional period, and I think another thing that's significant about those two back-to-back shows is what happened right after those shows. So the Ramones were on November 28, Pat Benatar on the 29th, and then in the Mainroom, Roy and I presented, on Friday and Saturday, "A New Wave Experience," which is how it was billed at the time. And that was, in part, part of this big statement of like, "Hey, we're changing. Here's two national bands that we're really excited about." And, "Here's what we're doing on the dance nights." And Friday and Saturday nights were the bread and butter of Uncle Sam's and Sam's and First Avenue. We were going from the soundtrack of Saturday Night Fever to playing the Clash and the Talking Heads and Blondie and Iggy Pop and Gang of Four and Devo and B-52's, and so it made for a really interesting challenge. And that was some of the most vital music being made. But part of what made ultimately, I think, First Avenue really successful was this philosophy that Steve really, really supported, and it was this idea that we were gonna play an eclectic mix of dance music. [Kevin takes a deep breath] It was a challenge. I mean, early on we'd clear the floor. [Kevin laughs] Holly Hansen VO: In order to pay the bills, Steve made it his mission to fill Uncle Sam's calendar, with DJs and live bands. Steve McClellan: You have this amount of money you gotta cover if you're open seven days a week. "Geez, $300, I can make that happen. If we do a college night with mud wrestling, we'll get $300, right?" And I knew if I was only open five days a week, well, take $2,100 and divide it by five instead of seven. Every day I was closed, to me, cost us money. Holly Hansen VO: In addition to big-name headliners, Uncle Sam's booked openers from around the Twin Cities, forming ties that would only get stronger. [Curtiss A's "Land of the Free"] Kevin Cole: The Pat Benatar show, Curtiss A opened. So we were developing those relationships with those bands already and working toward ultimately where we got to, which is a space where live bands could play. Daniel Corrigan: So, Micah, who used to work here, once said that First Avenue is a pirate ship that doesn't go anywhere. Holly Hansen VO: That's Daniel Corrigan, First Avenue's official photographer, quoting Micah Ailie. When Cecilia mentioned this to Steve and LeeAnn Weimar, they had a ready response. Steve McClellan: Not only was it a pirate ship, but it had a captain that didn't know where he was heading, or which shore we were heading for, or . . . LeeAnn Weimar: Or where the Bermuda Triangle was. Steve McClellan: Yeah! And we were constantly lost. [Steve laughs] Bermuda Triangle! LeeAnn Weimar: But god, we had a good time. [Icetep's "Hive Sound" fades up] Mark Wheat VO: In 1980, the crew dropped the "Uncle" and just went by "Sam's," a name that would last a couple of years. Next episode, you'll meet the newly christened "First Avenue" in a heyday of historic shows — few more significant than Bad Brains, Sweet Taste of Afrika, and Husker Du. Did you see the Ramones or Pat Benatar at First Avenue? If so, or if you'd like to share another memory, send it to us via email or voice memo at rewind@thecurrent.org. If you enjoyed this story, please mention it in a review of The Current Rewind on Apple Podcasts, or share it with the music lovers in your life. Also, we're happy to provide transcripts of each episode of this show. If you'd like to check them out, head over to TheCurrent.org/rewind. This episode of The Current Rewind was hosted by Holly Hansen and me, Mark Wheat. It was produced by Cecilia Johnson and scripted by our head writer, Michaelangelo Matos. Marisa Morseth is our research assistant, and Jay Gabler is our editor. Our theme music is the song "Hive Sound" by Icetep. This episode was mixed by Corey Schreppel. Thanks to Brett Baldwin, Rick Carlson, Shelby Sachs, David Safar, and Peter Scholtes for additional support. [Producer's note: We also owe Jeanne Andersen and her website Twin Cities Music Highlights a debt of gratitude for her original research and archiving.] The Current Rewind is made possible in part by the Minnesota Legacy Amendment's Arts and Cultural Heritage Fund. It is a production of Minnesota Public Radio's The Current. The Current Rewind goes to First Avenue

On this episode of The Current, host Lily Teplow talks about the challenges that MSPs and the broader world is facing as we deal with the unprecedented consequences of COVID-19. She also shares an exciting update on the future of the show and our podcast network as a whole. For relevant COVID-19 resources, visit ConnectWise's hub here: www.connectwise.com/company/remote-work. You can also check out CompTIA's forum here: covid19.comptia.org.

Over the past 10 years, technology has changed every single aspect of how brands conduct business. From product development, to supply chain, to inventory management, to marketing, to distribution, to post purchase engagement, to customer service, to digital content…etc etc, you get it… As a result, consumer expectations and values have shifted dramatically.  Regardless of industry, there’s a real case to be made that every new company is in fact a tech company at their foundation. So how do companies that have been around for the past 30, 40, 50, 100 years adjust?  I sympathize with these legacy brands that are required to navigate and adapt to this change in tide. Liz Bacelar of TheCurrent Global has built bridges between brands and thousands of technologies worldwide. Through her work and advocacy over the past decade, she’s helped shape the way we as customers interact with brands today. Her company works with brands such as Gucci, Sheseido, Burberry, Levi’s, and Ralph Lauren to help them navigate, invest, and deploy meaningful technology solutions.  If you'd like to receive invitations to our live recording event experiences, apply for access at www.BellwetherCulture.com

 Original music from a variety of bands! The White Wall Sessions podcast features songs and interviews by acts all over the country. Sit back and enjoy some great music and discussion about who made it. Featured artists:  The Lowland Lakers (part 2)  Lot Lizard (part 2)  Dan Mahar (part 2)

Liz Bacelar is a serial-entrepreneur and prolific speaker at the forefront of fashion, retail & technology. Today Liz talks about how they are effectively driving innovation at TheCurrent, how to distinguish yourself as a startup, why it’s important for companies to synch analogue and digital practices, why you should hire an external innovation expert, why all companies need a data plan and why you should be your best cheerleader.On today’s podcast:How to effectively drive innovationHow to distinguish yourself as a startupSynchronizing the analogue and the digitalThink about hiring an external innovation expertAll companies need a data planWhy you should be your best cheerleaderLinks:TheCurrentFull show notes at: http://corporateunplugged.com/podcast/ See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

"I think that it is absolutely indisputable that customers are asking for brands to have vision and to have purpose and to stand for more than just making something pretty," says Clare Press, sustainability editor-at-large at Vogue Australia and author of the book Rise & Resist, on the latest episode of the Innovators podcast by TheCurrent. This new wave of brand activism is backed by the fact there is plenty of evidence younger consumers are the most socially-engaged generation we've seen, she explains. The fight for social and political justice that is happening around the world, is feeding into a demanding for more from the goods and services they consume. "They're looking for brands to represent something that strikes a chord with them, and that is meaningful to them," she adds. We haven't seen consumer restlessness in as big a way as we're seeing right now since the 1960s, she explains. But addressing that as brands, also comes with balance. Numerous businesses have stepped into this space – Gucci for instance made headlines when it donated money to March For Our Lives, and the gun control movement in the US, in the wake of the Parkland shooting. Meanwhile Patagonia announced it is donating all of the $10m it saved from a tax cut in the Trump presidency towards environmental protection groups. But that only works when it's authentic, Press notes. "Customers can see when they're being green washed; when things completely lack integrity, and it can backfire. Let's not pretend that brands aren't in the business of making money. Of course, they are. However, if we can use that in order to also try to do some good, well, doing good business, I think that's a valid thing." Press' role at Vogue Australia is the first dedicated to sustainability in any of the Vogue titles worldwide. It comes at a time when the industry is increasingly focused on making sustainability and purpose a long-term business imperative, which ties to her mission to continue driving momentum in this space. It's on that basis she believes everything from climate change to gender equality, modern slavery and more are intertwined. In conversation with TheCurrent's Rachel Arthur, she explores exactly what that means, talks about the importance of every individual voice in the supply chain, and reveals just what feminism really has to do with fashion.

"In fashion, I sold things to people that they didn't need. You don't need a beautiful bustier dress from Dolce & Gabbana, you want it, so it is about a want-based marketing," says Clement Kwan, co-founder of luxury cannabis brand Beboe, on the latest episode of the Innovators podcast by TheCurrent. "In marijuana what we realized was everything was about the product. How high can you get? At what price? So we flipped the script," Kwan, who is a former executive at YOOX and Dolce & Gabbana, notes. Beboe launched in 2017 at a time when cannabis consumption was riding high. Off the back of the growing wellness trend, consumers have become increasingly educated on the physical and mental benefits of the plant, and a series of new products and retail models have entered the market to respond to the demand. The plant has now been legalized for medicinal use in 33 US states, and for recreational use in 10. The country now accounts for 90% of the global legal marijuana trade, valued at $8.5bn. For Kwan and his business partner, tattoo artist Scott Campbell, the ambition was to create the first luxury global cannabis brand, so its product design and marketing approach played a key role in helping destigmatize the plant and attract a more influential clientele. By creating a desirable product that acted as a conversation starter, consumers would naturally become brand advocates, he explains. The approach has so far made Beboe stand out from the crowd, and earn the nickname of the "Hermès of cannabis", as coined by the New York Times. During the conversation, Kwan tells TheCurrent's Liz Bacelar how he is applying his learnings from fashion into creating a desirable wellness and lifestyle brand, why education is the industry's biggest challenge, and what's next for Beboe's growing portfolio.

The future of e-commerce may not be about a traditional website at all, but about existing on multiple other platforms, expresses Matthew Woolsey, managing director at online luxury retailer, NET-A-PORTER, on the latest episode of the Innovators podcast by TheCurrent. The company sees many of its big customers making purchases over platforms including Whatsapp, iMessage and WeChat, which have become their primary entry point to e-commerce through their relationships with personal shoppers, he explains. "We want to be in the platform where our customer is engaging with content, seeing the product or speaking with the personal shopper. It's about what's best for her. We never want to be in a position where we are forcing or imposing a platform or methodology on our customers, because that's the opposite of customer centricity," he explains. "It's very easy to imagine a time when NET-A-PORTER doesn't even have a website, in the traditional sort of desktop sense, and really what it exists as is more of a concierge, on-demand, service offering. I think that's the future of where this industry is headed and it's something we are really well suited for because we have that infrastructure, we have that service component but we also know a lot more about our customer than just what she is buying." Data is central to being able to personalize the experience for individual customers in this way, he explains, outlining how the company is constantly looking at how to give its personal shoppers greater tools through technology. The company is currently experimenting with how it can use artificial intelligence to merge data between purchase history and fashion trends to give personal shoppers recommendations and ideas in advance that are personalized to the customer, for instance. Eventually the idea is for this to be scalable across the seven million consumers NET-A-PORTER talks to, but hitting its EIPs, or extremely important people, is the core focus, given the fact this 3% of its customer base, make up 40% of its revenue. Speaking with Rosanna Falconer at a FashMash event in London, Woolsey also reveals why the most expensive item ever bought via a messaging app is so significant, whether NET-A-PORTER would ever think about physical retail, and how to manage the modern day tension between algorithms and inspiration. Catch up with all of our episodes of the Innovators podcast by TheCurrent here . The series is a weekly conversation with visionaries, executives and entrepreneurs. It's backed by TheCurrent , a consultancy transforming how consumer retail brands intersect with technology. We deliver innovative integrations and experiences, powered by a network of top technologies and startups. Get in touch to learn more.

Successful retail experience today is about trial, service and entertainment, says Eleanor Morgan, chief experience officer of direct-to-consumer mattress brand Casper, on the latest episode of The Innovators podcast by TheCurrent. Speaking to Liz Bacelar at The Lead Summit in New York, she says the company really focuses on designing experiences that are optimized for those three things rather than inventory availability and convenience. What's key is giving customers the ability to try out products, get consultation from experts in house and enjoy moments with the brand. Casper has grown from an online retailer to a brick-and-mortar business with 20 stores across the US, along with an innovative sleep bar. The Dreamery, as it's called, is a new napping space in New York built around experiential aims. It offers nap pods in a peaceful lounge along with a Casper mattress where consumers can pay $25 for a 45-minute snooze. It also serves as an extension of the brand's aim to drive a cultural change around sleep. **"**The Dreamery is a provocation and a way to essentially say, it's not only acceptable to take a nap during the day and take a break, but it's celebrated, and we can actually build a community of people that really value this and feel like it's a socially fun behavior," Morgan explains. Casper was founded in 2014 with the mission of bringing great sleep to more people. With the diet and exercise industries booming, the founders saw a gap where sleep was completely ignored. Today, Casper is worth over $750m and has plans to open 200 store locations within the next three years. Morgan attributes much of the brand's growth to staying customer centered and focused on data. The company opened 18 pop-up stores in four months to test consumer engagement before opening its first permanent location, for instance. Through feedback and reviews from its consumers, it has been able to understand what their needs are, how they purchase their products, and how to improve their shopping experience. During the conversation, Morgan also talks about the secret sauce to creating successful pop-up stores, what a modern sleep community looks like, and where Casper will be headed in the future.

The role of the chief digital officer shouldn't exist, says Ian Rogers, who is himself the chief digital officer at LVMH, on the latest episode of the Innovators podcast by TheCurrent. Speaking to Liz Bacelar in Hong Kong during The New York Times International Luxury Conference, he argues that for any large company, the role should be merely transitional as brands become accustomed to a future where digital is simply embedded within everything that they do. "The word digital and the insinuation that this transformation is about technology is really misleading and it makes people make the wrong decisions. So what I really want to convince people of is that this is not a technological change, it's a cultural change," he explains. Instead, the role should evolve into a chief technical officer who sits at the executive table alongside more established players like the CFO and the CEO itself, he notes. Rogers joined LVMH in 2015 at a pivotal time for the group, which like many luxury players was navigating a new consumer demand for more digital experiences and introducing e-commerce to its more traditional brands. Since taking on the role, he has helped LVMH launch multi-designer e-commerce platform, 24 Sèvres, invest in affiliate shopping platform Lyst, and scale LVMH's presence on China's TMall platform from zero to 12 portfolio names. Rogers big focus is on the customer, he explains. He brings that learning from his previous career in the music industry, where he led the launch of Apple Music after it acquired Beats Music and Beats Electronics for $3bn. Understanding every customer touchpoint, which now begins with digital, is key for a successful experience that navigates seamlessly across all channels, he explains. During the conversation, Rogers also talks about how it makes sense that luxury took so long to jump into e-commerce; why CEOs don't need to know technology intrinsically; and what he's driving at LVMH to keep up with the level of experience the customer expects online.

UK hit reality TV show, Love Island, is all about meeting the customer where she lives, says Missguided's chief digital officer, Jonathan Wall, on the latest episode of the Innovators podcast by TheCurrent. "Love Island for our sector, it's kind of like the annual peak, or the annual Christmas, of [other retailers]. It's our nirvana. You could not find anything else that's absolutely spot on to our bullseye customer," he comments. The fast fashion multi-channel retailer saw its sales spike 40% during the show this summer, which all came down to reigniting and re-energizing lapsed customers of more than six months, he notes. Product placement, which is essentially what this was, isn't new in strategy – but it's effective when it's done right, he explains. In this instance, his team designed looks and dressed all of the stars in the show. Wall's strategy is focused primarily on relevancy to the shopper, much of which comes from the fact his team internally are those individuals themselves. "One of the big big advantages we've got as a business, is that our customers are actually our team... Our average age in our business is 25, and guess what, our average customer age is also 25. You cannot overemphasize the advantages you get when every single day you are walking amongst your customers. It's a tremendous advantage." It's that laser-sharp focus on who they're targeting that also let's Missguided play with partnerships, he adds. The brand launched a collaboration with Playboy this summer that was met with a heavy dose of debate, but ultimately succeeded because of how relevant it was to the shopper it was intended. "It again hit the nail on the head for our customer," Wall explains. In conversation with Rosanna Falconer at a FashMash event in Missguided's hometown of Manchester in the north of England, Wall also shares his views on what's coming next in influencer marketing, which of the big social channels he's focused on, and just why he likes to court a little controversy along the way.

CGI models are having a moment in luxury fashion right now, but it's up for debate as to whether they hold true value for the brands embracing them, according to the latest episode of the Innovators podcast by TheCurrent. Co-hosts Liz Bacelar and Rachel Arthur, who discuss various technologies pertinent to the industry every month on this show, bring opposing viewpoints to the table. CGI or virtual models have been used in fashion advertising campaigns to an increasing degree over the past few years, with big name brands including Louis Vuitton, Prada and Balmain all employing them. Some of those involved, including one called Lil Miquela, and another named Shudu, have generated enormous buzz and impressively large social media followings as a result, as though they were indeed influencers in their own right. Most recently, Lil Miquela featured in UGG's 40th anniversary campaign, blending in seamlessly alongside two real-life influencers as though she were a natural part of the cast. For the unsuspecting onlooker, it's not immediately clear she's not. One of the questions raised during the episode is whether such a move is merely about gaining from some of the hype such models currently present, or if they can in fact drive ROI for the brands making use of them long term. Rachel presents some interesting statistics that show how engagement of for CGI remains significantly lower than any example of a 'human' influencer, but Liz counters that view with the argument that what we're looking at here is a form of artistic expression. The duo also dive into what such flawless representations of women mean for beauty ideals in the era of fake news we currently live in, as well as the notion that we may all have a CGI or avatar version of ourselves in the future, not least the real life influencers who could ultimately gain increased revenue opportunities for themselves, even posthumously. Catch up with all of our episodes of the Innovators podcast by TheCurrent here . The series is a weekly conversation with visionaries, executives and entrepreneurs. It's backed by TheCurrent , a consultancy transforming how consumer retail brands intersect with technology. We deliver innovative integrations and experiences, powered by a network of top technologies and startups. Get in touch to learn more.

It’s not incumbent on the consumer to change behaviour, but on businesses to take responsibility, says Tim Brown, co-founder of direct-to-consumer footwear brand Allbirds on the latest episode of the Innovators podcast, by TheCurrent.

Designers need to reposition their businesses as startups to tap into much-needed investment, says menswear designer, Ozwald Boateng, on the latest episode of TheCurrent Innovators podcast. In conversation with Liz Bacelar at a Spotify event in Paris, Boateng, whose body of work propelled the craftsmanship of London's Savile Row to international recognition, says he believes the creative world needs to learn from technology in terms of how it approaches funding. The fashion industry's model of investors taking control of designers' names early on is broken, he explains, saying that we can all learn from new direct-to-consumer businesses that have overcome this by approaching differently the way that they're backed instead. "What amazes me is when you see these young creative talents, still owning sizeable chunks of the business after raising so much money and getting these valuations of a billion plus – you kind of go, my god, can that really happen, it's almost like a dream, but in the tech world, it's the norm," he notes. "This creates a huge amount of independence and opportunity for the designer – you're no longer forced to follow the rules, so that's exciting. For me as a business, I'm looking at ways to take advantage of that." Conversely, he says the technology world also needs to learn from creatives. "I think if more designers looked at the world of technology and applied their creative to the tech, I am sure we would see some very interesting and groundbreaking ideas ," he comments. He explains that designers are trained to always look forward, to spot trends and understand needs, so it's something he believes would work exceptionally well when applied to technology. "I would happily use a body scanner [for my made-to-measure suits], it makes a lot of sense. But there's a lot of things I could add in terms of how I need the technology to work," he notes. "So I see a partnership. Eventually both [designers and tech companies] will see they need each other, and then they'll just make it work." During the conversation, the duo also talk about his new uniform designs for British Airways, his time as creative director at Givenchy and the role of race and diversity in the industry. Catch up with all of our episodes of TheCurrent Innovators here. The series is a weekly conversation with visionaries, executives and entrepreneurs. It's backed by TheCurrent, a consultancy transforming how consumer retail brands intersect with technology. We deliver innovative integrations and experiences, powered by a network of top technologies and startups. [Get in touch](mailto: contact@thecurrentglobal.com)to learn more.

A new feature of TheCurrent Innovators podcast is a monthly discussion between our hosts, Liz Bacelar and Rachel Arthur. The two of them – also partners of TheCurrent's innovation consultancy – come across a lot of different technologies, tons of startup entrepreneurs and many big ideas through their day jobs. Doing so means they generate many big opinions of their own – but, unsurprisingly, they don't always agree. So, they've now put what normally stays behind closed doors in the office, on record for podcast listeners. In this first episode, the two explore what virtual reality (VR) really means for the retail industry. That comes off the back of recent news that saw Walmart filing for two patents that suggest it will launch a virtual reality-based shopping experience in the future. The world's largest retailer detailed the idea of a virtual showroom and a fulfillment system that will enable shoppers to both explore and purchase products using the technology. The news follows Walmart's acquisition of Spatialand, a software startup focused on creating VR experiences, which now sits within the retailer's Store No. 8 in-house tech incubator. What's more, Alibaba and Amazon are also playing in this space. The latter has already launched an example of VR shopping with Macy's for Singles Day, while Amazon recently opened 10 virtual reality kiosks in India to promote its Prime Day shopping event. Yet, there's an argument that much of VR, when we're talking about application beyond gaming and entertainment, really is just gimmick. At a time when there's little space left for technology for technology's sake, the question is, are these retailers actually one step ahead of the game, or still just playing with something for the sake of it? Liz has some strong views on the lack of headset penetration and what that really means for consumer uptake in the long term, while Rachel argues there's still space for PR opportunities with such a technology all the same. What it comes down to is relevancy in terms of both business objectives and the target consumer. Between them, they also dive into some further case studies, explore where VR really could impact retail down the line, and jump into the virtues of other technologies in the same space as alternatives.

"We only have one planet, and the toll [the fashion industry] has on resources today is simply unsustainable," says Anna Gedda, head of sustainability at the H&M Group, on the latest episode of TheCurrent Innovators podcast. She was referring to the company's goal to move towards a 100% circular model by 2030, which means that everything it uses will go back into the system to be either recycled or reused. Speaking to TheCurrent's chief innovation officer, Rachel Arthur, at a FashMash event in London, she said the aim of the business is to keep all that is good with the fashion industry – from providing clothes to an ever increasing global population, to contributing to job opportunities and development – but doing so within the planetary boundaries. "If you do that, if you only use what is in the system in terms of resources, then we believe that you can continue to consume fashion in the future and you will be able to have prosperous communities that depend on the fashion industry in a good way," she explains. It's a cumbersome road ahead to get there of course, with the industry needing to rethink everything from design, materials, consumption, recycling and more. And while there are already plenty of ideas out there – with H&M's non-profit Foundation leading the way with an annual award for startups in the space – time, effort and big investment is needed to get many of them to scale. "At the moment there is not much out there in terms of what is scalable, but if we look at the pipeline of innovation that is coming, it's fantastic," Gedda notes. She's particularly enthused by some of the work that's going into recycling technology to get us to high quality upcycled fibres. She adds that what's really needed in the industry today to make all of this a reality for mass brands however, is a coordination of innovation efforts so things don't happen in siloes. "If we're going to have fast acceleration of this, then whatever is invented needs to complement something else so you can get an effective chain – whether it's materials or production – to happen. I think that from a challenge perspective, it's the lack of coordination, or the lack of a bigger platform where all this collaboration can really happen, that's the key thing I would point out." During the conversation, the duo also explore what will make the consumer really care about sustainability, how collaboration in the industry is critical, and just why AI is so pivotal to the future. Catch up with all of our episodes of TheCurrent Innovators here . The series is a weekly conversation with visionaries, executives and entrepreneurs. It's backed by TheCurrent , a consultancy transforming how consumer retail brands intersect with technology. We deliver innovative integrations and experiences, powered by a network of top technologies and startups. Get in touch to learn more.

Minter Dialogue Episode #295 Liz Bacelar is a renowned entrepreneur and speaker, at the cutting edge of fashion, retail and technology. Credited with driving the link between fashion and technology, Liz is a dynamic and forward-thinking entrepreneur, who founded and sold Decoded Fashion. In this conversation with Liz, we discuss her journey with Decoded Fashion, some of the lessons learned within the fashion industry, and the constraints and opportunities in B2B. We hear about the launch and development of her latest initiative, TheCurrent, an innovation firm, providing outsourced innovation for companies around the world, including the reverse pitch concept they've created. Meanwhile, please send me your questions as an audio file (or normal email) to nminterdial@gmail.com; or you can find the show notes and comment on minterdial.com. If you liked the podcast, please take a moment to go over to iTunes to rate/review the podcast. Otherwise, you can find me @mdial on Twitter. Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/minterdial)

Luxury has a lot to learn from the way streetwear brands trade on creating desire, says Ferdinando Verderi, co-founder and creative director of NY-based agency Johannes Leonardo, on the latest episode of TheCurrent Innovators podcast. As the creative lead behind the adidas Originals and Alexander Wang collaboration, his experience shows that relevancy in today's market is all about bringing the customer close, but keeping products scarce. Accordingly, tapping into a mentality of belonging is at the heart of what makes the streetwear industry so successful and as a result, a strategy that luxury is keen to follow, he explains. "It's easy to forget how the streetwear phenomenon started. [It] started with the will of people to belong to a real community that has a point of view that is different from others," he says. His award-winning work for adidas Originals has involved unpicking what creativity stands for, and how a sportswear giant can challenge the status quo. This has meant ideas like crossing out the brand's iconic three stripes, expressing the importance of being a work in progress (see "Original is never finished") and even turning the brand's logo upside down. When the agency helped broker adidas Originals' partnership with Alexander Wang, it consequently ended up almost laying the groundwork for what luxury-meets-street collaborations, now popularized through many other deals, entail. The collab was built on the concept of purposively disrespecting industry rules, says Verderi. Over three seasons they have done everything from a reseller-inspired retail strategy to analog marketing activity that involved text messaging. During this conversation with TheCurrent's innovation strategist, Bia Bezamat, Verderi dives into what all of that has meant, all the while also talking about why brands need to think like publishers in the way they drop content over product, how another movement will come to replace streetwear now that it's become so mass, and why distilling a point of view needs to be done in a very careful way.

"The scariest thing [in the world] is doing something different and not having an example to follow," says designer Misha Nonoo on the latest episode of TheCurrent Innovators. Speaking at a MouthMedia Live recording at Spring Place in New York with TheCurrent's founder Liz Bacelar, the designer discussed how she pivoted her contemporary namesake brand in 2016 to focusing on selling direct-to-consumer instead. "It was scary and I was doing something completely new, but at the same time it was very exciting," she explains. Such disruption is something that has become second nature to Nonoo in recent years. In 2015, she was one of the first in the industry to forgo an official fashion week presentation and host an Instagram one instead. The next year, she returned to the platform with a see-now-buy-now presentation, which users could shop via influencer platform, rewardStyle. For a designer who sees herself as an entrepreneur holding the reins for her brand's success – and her personal happiness – switching to selling directly to the consumer was a very clear direction, she explains. That said, challenging the industry's statusquo comes with a lot of hard work, which Nonoo does not shy away from. "One of the most enlightening things that I was ever told was by Anna Wintour (...) she said to me 'an overnight success is 10 years in the making'," Nonoo explains. Seven years on, she feels she is just 'making it' now. Time has also given Nonoo the confidence to know that a lot of the industry is based on smoke and mirrors. As a small, independent brand, she now feels confident in having the choice of what to subscribe to. During this conversation, Nonoo also talks about the importance of building a business based on values, how fashion week has become obsolete, and the challenges of running an on-demand business.

Risk, authenticity and understanding your consumer are the keys to innovation, says Avery Baker, chief brand officer of Tommy Hilfiger, on the latest episode of TheCurrent Innovators podcast. "When you're trying to do something that really creates an impact and is somewhat revolutionary, then you've got to put all the chips on the table," she explains to TheCurrent's founder Liz Bacelar, at a live recording at Neuehouse in New York. She was referring specifically to the brand's Tommy Now runway experience, which first launched in February 2017 and most recently took place in Shanghai for Fall 2018. A tech-enabled interactive fashion event, she refers to it as "the right sweet spot in terms of being aspirational and accessible" for the Tommy brand. Across the market, its set the benchmark in terms of what a digitally-enabled, see-now-buy-now runway experience could, and should, look like; arguably by putting both entertainment and commerce at its heart. "From the beginning we didn't think of it as a fashion show as we know fashion shows to be. We see this as a totally shoppable fashion ecosystem that at its heart is a media and content platform. It has a moment of theater, but it also has many layers in terms of engagement and shopability and experience and shareability. It is a multilayered platform," Baker explains. And importantly, that got big internal buy-in, catapulting the team behind the launch to make it happen: "What I found was that everyone was so excited about being part of something that was innovative, risk-taking, that was breaking the rules and writing our own story. There was a tremendous amount of excitement, rather than fear and pride to be a part of a program that was trying to be groundbreaking." That mentality of how to create experiential fashion show moments targeted to a Gen Z audience, is only a small manifestation of Tommy's bigger ambitions towards innovation, however. Beyond digitally-enabled retail experiences, the brand has also been investigating new ways to communicate with consumers through its evolving product – from smart clothing that rewards users per wear, through to speaking to a highly underserved audience through an adaptive line for people with disabilities. During the live conversation, Baker also talks about how the brand has translated its American roots and values to a global audience, how it overcame the unexpected lull, and why magic and logic need to work together.

Direct-to-consumer brands don't often live up to the hype placed on them by endless amounts of VC funding and Silicon Valley fandom, says Jen Rubio, co-founder of travel brand Away, on the latest episode of TheCurrent Innovators podcast. Speaking to Liz Bacelar, founder of TheCurrent, at the British Fashion Council's annual Fashion Forum in London, Rubio explains that from its inception in 2016, she and her co-founder Steph Korey (who she met while both working at Warby Parker), were careful not to run their business like a lot of other brands in the space. "If you go back in time a little bit, a lot of new brands and e-commerce companies were positioning themselves as tech companies and raising a lot of VC money at tech valuations that would never live up to the public market at how retail companies are valued, and then run into the trouble of needing these stores and claiming they are a retail company and not a tech one," she explains. "We saw a lot of this happening in the industry and from the beginning Steph and I said, this is not how we are going to run our business. "If you go back in time a little bit, a lot of new brands and e-commerce companies were positioning themselves as tech companies and raising a ton of VC money at tech valuations that would never live up to the public market at how retail companies are valued. And then run into the trouble of 'oh we actually need these stores so now we're a retail company and not a tech company'. They've raised too much cash, they've burned too much cash," she explains. "We saw a lot of this stuff happening in the industry and from the beginning Steph and I were like, this is not how we are going to run this business." After pitching Away as a brand aiming to make travel more seamless, as opposed to simply making luggage, the business famously received a first round of investment before even having a physical product, for instance. From the lightbulb moment for the brand's concept through to its launch, Away spoke to over 800 people about what elements would make the perfect suitcase. It is that open approach to constant feedback that it continues to focus on to this day – helping to inform its product collaborations, new features and color palettes, and even locations for pop-ups and permanent retail spaces. In this conversation, Rubio also tells Liz how its first major hurdle – airline regulation that meant their smart suitcase was no longer allowed onboard – was an important opportunity to strengthen the relationship with Away customers; how retail landlords are finally giving non-legacy brands a chance; and why understanding your consumer is key to constant innovation.

The mass appeal of 'wellness as a lifestyle' may be something trending with consumers today, but it's a mindset that's been central to Equinox since its inception in 1991, says Vimla Gupta, CMO of the premium fitness brand, on the latest episode of TheCurrent Innovators podcast. Equinox has paved the way by offering consumers support and service beyond typical gym classes by understanding how their fitness behaviors have always been a pivotal part of their lifestyles. In doing so it's become not just a 'gym' brand, but an entire lifestyle group that will even open its own hotel in New York in 2019. Its success comes from the fact it quickly understood that with the rise of the internet, consumers were going above and beyond normal exercise behavior to better understand their needs and goals. "What we seek to do as a brand is intrinsically understand our consumer and what her needs are; what drives her," says Gupta. "And what we are seeing is the consumer has a PHD in everything; unlimited access to information." Modern gym-goers, Gupta says, are information-obsessed and think of every step of the journey, from understanding their nutrition and dietary needs, to researching the efficacy of the latest workout and even what sportswear they wear. This pushes brands like Equinox to become the vehicles to satisfy their learning needs and provide them with an experience that will correspond to their high performance expectations. At the heart of Equinox's interaction with its clients is the need to keep innovating by introducing services and technologies that help maximize the potential in their consumers lives, she adds. Technology in this case acts as an engagement and recommendation tool through leveraging individual data, such as the recent launch of a digital coach – or a bot – to its 10-year-old mobile app, which learns from a user's activities and helps them stay on track. During this conversation with Liz Bacelar, founder of TheCurrent, Gupta also divulges more on what tech means for the Equinox gym experience, how the company is evolving from fitness to lifestyle and retail, and its upcoming plans to keep enabling clients to live their best lives.

Speaking to Liz Bacelar, founder of TheCurrent, during a live recording hosted by MouthMedia Network at Spring Place in New York, he explains how the enormous e-commerce redesign he has spearheaded for the world’s largest company, all came down to this focus on elevating the shopping experience for the changing customer of today.

The Levi’s Commuter x Google Jacquard jacket is the first of its kind – a commercially ready piece of wearable tech that’s both fashionable and washable. But more than that, it’s one of the only “devices” out there aiming to tackle the idea of obsolescence, Paul Dillinger, VP of global product innovation at Levi’s, says in an episode of "TheCurrent Innovators" podcast with host Liz Bacelar. The jacket itself is designed for urban cyclists, or as Dillinger refers to it, “for people who live in the city and need to get around”. It’s based on the existing Levi’s Commuter Trucker jacket, but embedded with technology in the sleeve in order for it to operate a number of useful functionalities for wearers. It launched to the public in September 2017 for $350 in stores and online. “It’s a classical denim trucker jacket that is designed to make an urban cyclist’s life a little safer, a little lighter, a little better. To that we’ve then added about 15 rows of capacitive yarn in the left cuff, that forms an area that is capable to be touched.” Users can tap or swipe in that spot to then control various utilities including playing music, getting GPS directions, answering or rejecting calls and more. It is connected via Bluetooth to your phone to do so. The key, according to Dillinger, was about making it still feel like a fashion item. “(The jacket) had to feel like a Levi’s product not a piece of Google technology,” he says. But it had to function to the same level of a Google technology too. We had to take a lot of time to weave it in so that it was working but not visible, trying to make it look and feel right.” The aim now is to constantly improve on that functionality to make it increasingly more useful to the user too. “The spring [update] of this product won’t be a new object, it will be new abilities. We built digital platforms so that the jacket never gets obsolete,” Dillinger explains. In partnership with Google, the team studies user behaviour data to gain indications of how they should be improving. That approach is a marked difference for the two industries involved. Tech is usually designed to be replaced. It’s the reason we all upgrade our iPhones. By comparison, in fashion – despite the shift towards disposable clothing at the cheaper end of the market – the ideal is for longevity. Denim from Levi’s frequently falls into that latter category. “The challenge is to make it something that people will want to wear, and something that is more like a platform, that can improve itself,” Dillinger notes. This is a jacket that’s essentially a piece of software more than hardware then, with upgrades that install automatically. “We started selling in September. By the holidays the users got a notification on their app saying, your jacket just got better, we have capabilities that are improved,” he adds. “We’re giving people a reason to keep a garment longer, not less, and we’re giving them an improved version of something they already know. So rather than giving you the bad feeling of something going out of fashion, we’re giving you the opposite feeling by improving over time what you already bought.”

Disruption, courage and innovation are the pillars around which Only the Brave, or OTB, the parent company of fashion brand Diesel, are built. But they’re also words that Stefano Rosso, CEO of the brand in North America, lives by as he faces the challenge of rebooting the denim business in the US. In the 1970s, his father, Renzo Rosso, the iconic founder of the brand, disrupted the jeans industry by building a fashion empire focused entirely around the message that different is cool. Today, Stefano is maintaining that view of challenging conformity, all the while tackling how it looks in the digital era. TheCurrent’s Liz Bacelar sat down with him to talk about how Diesel lost its way, what it’s doing to get back in the game, how luxury can survive the tech revolution and whether virtual reality is (possibly) the future of the industry.