Podcast appearances and mentions of Forrest Gander

Episode Summary This is the first week of April and April is Poetry Month. So we are so pleased to feature two conversations with poets who use their genre as a vehicle for historical witness and spiritual transformation. First, we talk with poet, geologist and translator Forrest Gander about his novel in poetry Mojave Ghost. … Continue reading Poetry of Place and Freedom with Forrest Gander and DaMaris Hill →

We welcome you to 2025 with a show that explores the exploration of form. In this conversation with Pulitzer Prize-winning author Forrest Gander, we consider the nature of the writing journey—and its connection to landscape, the multiplicity of selves, and the kaleidoscopic experience of bringing together multiple eras of a lived life. Gander calls his new book a novel poem, and you'll find out why, along with other beautiful insights about love and loss and the journey of being a writer—and a human. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Eric Newman and Medaya Ocher are joined by the Palestinian poet, short-story writer, and essayist Mosab Abu Toha. He is the author of the award-winning collection of poetry, Things You May Find Hidden in My Ear, as well as the founder of the Edward Said Library in Gaza, which he hopes to rebuild. Toha recently published a series of essays about Gaza in the New Yorker and his work has also appeared in the New York Times and the Los Angeles Review of Books. His new book is Forest of Noise, a collection of poems, grappling with his memories, experiences, and many, many losses. Also, Forrest Gander, author of Mojave Ghost returns to recommend Liontaming in America by Elizabeth Willis.

Eric Newman and Medaya Ocher are joined by the Palestinian poet, short-story writer, and essayist Mosab Abu Toha. He is the author of the award-winning collection of poetry, Things You May Find Hidden in My Ear, as well as the founder of the Edward Said Library in Gaza, which he hopes to rebuild. Toha recently published a series of essays about Gaza in the New Yorker and his work has also appeared in the New York Times and the Los Angeles Review of Books. His new book is Forest of Noise, a collection of poems, grappling with his memories, experiences, and many, many losses. Also, Forrest Gander, author of Mojave Ghost returns to recommend Liontaming in America by Elizabeth Willis.

Kate Wolf and Eric Newman are joined by Pulitzer Prize-winning poet, novelist, and translator Forrest Gander to discuss his new book, Mojave Ghost. A long poem situated along the 800-mile length of the San Andreas Fault, which runs from Northern California where Gander lives to his birthplace in the Southern California Desert, the work reflects both exterior and interior landscapes with tender precision and heightened awareness. Gander moves through memory, grief, and fault lines— in the earth, our country, and himself. He confronts what it means to be a self that contains divisions born out of time, experience, and relationships to other people, both living and gone. Also, Simon Critchley, author of Mysticism, returns to recommend A Most Remarkable Creature by Jonathan Meiburg, and give a tip of the hat to Housekeeping by Marilynne Robinson.

Kate Wolf and Eric Newman are joined by Pulitzer Prize-winning poet, novelist, and translator Forrest Gander to discuss his new book, Mojave Ghost. A long poem situated along the 800-mile length of the San Andreas Fault, which runs from Northern California where Gander lives to his birthplace in the Southern California Desert, the work reflects both exterior and interior landscapes with tender precision and heightened awareness. Gander moves through memory, grief, and fault lines— in the earth, our country, and himself. He confronts what it means to be a self that contains divisions born out of time, experience, and relationships to other people, both living and gone. Also, Simon Critchley, author of Mysticism, returns to recommend A Most Remarkable Creature by Jonathan Meiburg, and give a tip of the hat to Housekeeping by Marilynne Robinson.

The Pulitzer Prize-winning California poet Forrest Gander discusses "Mojave Ghost," his novel-poem blending personal grief with geological exploration. He explains how his background in geology shapes his writing, offering unique insights on landscape and emotion. Gander describes walking the San Andreas Fault to process loss, highlighting the desert's transformative power. He explores the connection between landscape and psyche, challenging conventional views of time and grief. Gander emphasizes the importance of presence in writing and life, reflecting on poetry's role in our media-saturated world.

Bianca Stone and Pulitzer Prize-winning poet, Forest Gander, look at the complexities of multiple selves, and the very DNA that shows our biologically mongrel being, informed constantly by the landscape in which it is situated. We continue our discussion of the inward-outward, and the material and immaterial reality we have been honing in on with […]

Lichen is a strange presence on this planet. Traditionally, scientists have understood lichen as a new organism formed through symbiosis between a fungus and an algae. But the science is evolving. It seems that there may be more than one species of fungus involved in this symbiosis, and some scientists have suggested that lichen could be described as both an ecosystem and an organism. Lichen may even be immortal, in some sense of the word.In lichen, the poet Forrest Gander finds both the mystery of the forest and a rich metaphor for our symbiosis with one another and with the planet, for the relationship between the dead and the living, and for how our relationships with others change us indelibly. In his poem, “Forest,” lichen are a sensual presence, even erotic, living in relationship to the other beings around them. They resemble us, strangely, despite our dramatic differences.The words of the poem teem with life, like the forest they explore, and Forrest's marvelous reading of the poem adds a panoply of meanings and feelings through his annunciation, his breaths, his breaks. It's phenomenal.This poem, and his work more broadly, is about nothing less that who we are on this Earth and how we live—how we thrive—in relationship.Forrest Gander writes poetry, novels, essays, and translations. He is the recipient of many awards and honors, including a Guggenheim Fellowship and the Pulitzer Prize in poetry for his book, Be With. As an undergraduate, like me, he studied geology, which became foundational to his engagement with ecological ethics and poetics.Forrest often collaborates with other artists on books and exhibitions, including a project with the photographer Sally Mann. His latest book of poetry is a collaboration with the photographer Jack Shear, called Knot (spelled with a “k”). He recently collaborated with artist Ashwini Bhat on an exhibition at the Shoshana Wayne Gallery in Los Angeles, called “In Your Arms I'm Radiant.”His poem, “Forest,” is from his 2021 collection of poems, Twice Alive.Forrest has taught at Harvard University and Brown University. He spoke to me from his home in Northern California, where he now lives.This episode of Chrysalis is part of the Chrysalis Poets series, which focuses on a single poems from poets who confront ecological issues in their work.You can listen on Substack, Apple Podcasts, and other podcast platforms.Please rate, review, and share to help us spread the word!Forrest GanderBorn in the Mojave Desert in Barstow, California, Forrest Gander grew up in Virginia. He spend significant years in San Francisco, Dolores Hidalgo (Mexico), Eureka Springs, and Providence. With the late poet CD Wright, he has a son, the artist Brecht Wright Gander. Forrest holds degrees in both Geology and English literature. He lives now in Northern California with his wife, the artist Ashwini Bhat. Gander's book Be With was awarded the 2019 Pulitzer Prize. Concerned with the way we are revised and translated in encounters with the foreign, his book Core Samples from the World was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize and the National Book Critics Circle Award. Gander has collaborated frequently with other artists including photographers Sally Mann, Graciela Iturbide, Raymond Meeks, and Lucas Foglia, glass artist Michael Rogers, ceramic artists Rick Hirsch and Ashwini Bhat, artists Ann Hamilton, Tjibbe Hooghiemstra, dancers Eiko & Koma, and musicians Vic Chesnutt and Brady Earnhart, among others.   The author of numerous other books of poetry, including Redstart: An Ecological Poetics and Science & Steepleflower, Gander also writes novels (As a Friend; The Trace), essays (A Faithful Existence) and translates. Recent translations include It Must Be a Misunderstanding by Coral Bracho, Names and Rivers by Shuri Kido, and Then Come Back: the Lost Neruda Poems. His most recent anthologies are Pinholes in the Night: Essential Poems from Latin American (selected by Raúl Zurita) and Panic Cure: Poems from Spain for the 21st Century.Gander's books have been translated and published in more than a dozen other languages. He is a United States Artists Rockefeller Fellow and has received fellowships from The National Endowment for the Arts and the Guggenheim, Whiting, and Howard Foundations. In 2011, he was awarded the Library of Congress Witter Bynner Fellowship. Gander was the Briggs-Copeland poet at Harvard University before becoming The Adele Kellenberg Seaver Professor of Literary Arts and Comparative Literature at Brown University where he taught courses such as Poetry & Ethics, EcoPoetics, Latin American Death Trip, and Translation Theory & Practice. He is an Emeritus Chancellor for the Academy for the Academy of American Poets and is an elected member of The Academy of Arts & Sciences.Gander co-edited Lost Roads Publishers with CD Wright for twenty years, soliciting, editing, and publishing books by more than thirty writers, including Michael Harper, Kamau Brathwaite, Arthur Sze, Fanny Howe, Frances Mayes, Steve Stern, Zuleyka Benitez, and René Char.“Forest”By Forrest GanderErogenous zones in oaks slung with stoles of lace lichen the sun's rays spilling through leaves in broken packets a force call it nighttime thrusts mushrooms up from their lair of spawn mycelial loam the whiff of port they pop into un- trammeled air with the sort of gasp that follows a fine chess move like memories are they? or punctuation? was it something the earth said to provoke our response tasking us to recall an evolutionary course our long ago initation into the one- among-others and within my newborn noticing have you popped up beside me love or were you here from the start a swarm of meaning and decay still gripping the underworld both of us half-buried holding fast if briefly to a swelling vastness while our coupling begins to register in the already awake compendium that offers to take us in you take me in and abundance floods us floats us out we fill each with the other all morning breaks as birdsong over us who rise to the surface so our faces might be sprungRecommended Readings & MediaForrest Gander reading his poem “Unto Ourselves” from Twice Alive.TranscriptIntroJohn FiegeLichen is a strange presence on this planet. Traditionally, scientists have understood lichen as a new organism formed through symbiosis between a fungus and an algae. But the science is evolving. It seems there may be more than one species of fungus involved in this symbiosis. And some scientists have suggested that lichen, and could be described as both an ecosystem and an organism. Lichen may even be immortal in some sense of the word. In lichen, the poet Forrest Gander finds both the mystery of the forest and a rich metaphor for our symbiosis with one another and with the planet, for the relationship between the dead and the living, and for how our relationships with others change us indelibly. In his poem, "Forest," lichen are an essential presence, even erotic, living in relationship to the other beings around them. They resemble us strangely, despite our dramatic differences. The words of the poem teem with life, like the forest they explore, and Forrest's marvelous reading of the poem as a panoply of meanings and feelings through his enunciation—his breaths, his breaks; it's phenomenal. This poem in his work, more broadly, is about nothing less than who we are on this earth, and how we live; how we thrive in relationship. I'm John Fiege, and this episode of Chrysalis is part of the Chrysalis Poets series. Forrest Gander writes poetry, novels, essays, and translations. He is the recipient of many awards and honors, including a Guggenheim Fellowship, and the Pulitzer Prize in poetry for his book Be With. Forrest often collaborates with other artists on books and exhibitions, including a project with a photographer Sally Mann. His latest book of poetry is a collaboration with a photographer Jack Scheer called Knot. He recently collaborated with artist Ashwini Bhat on an exhibition at the Shoshana Wayne Gallery in Los Angeles, called In Your Arms I'm Radiant. His poem, "Forest," is from his 2021 collection of poems, Twice Alive. Forrest has taught at Harvard University and Brown University. He spoke to me from his home in Northern California, where he now lives. Here is Forrest Gander reading his poem "Forest."PoemForrest Gander“Forest”Erogenous zones in oaks slung with stoles of lace lichen the sun's rays spilling through leaves in broken packets a force call it nighttime thrusts mushrooms up from their lair of spawn mycelial loam the whiff of port they pop into un- trammeled air with the sort of gasp that follows a fine chess move like memories are they? or punctuation? was it something the earth said to provoke our response tasking us to recall an evolutionary course our long ago initation into the one- among-others and within my newborn noticing have you popped up beside me love or were you here from the start a swarm of meaning and decay still gripping the underworld both of us half-buried holding fast if briefly to a swelling vastness while our coupling begins to register in the already awake compendium that offers to take us in you take me in and abundance floods us floats us out we fill each with the other all morning breaks as birdsong over us who rise to the surface so our faces might be sprungConversationJohn FiegeThank you. It's so wonderful hearing you read it, the intonation and the flow of the words and your emphasis is just like completely new hearing you read it, rather than just reading it myself. I want to start with the sexual imagery. You begin with "erogenous zones in oaks, slung with stoles of lace lichen." And that last line, "stoles of lace lichen the," that was one of the things that jumped out to me, is the is at the end of the line there. And you read it as if it was the end of the line rather than pausing and using it as part of the next stanza. But in addition to these, this erogenous zone, you've got thrusting mushrooms in a layer of spawn, and sexual imagery doesn't often accompany decomposition, and decomposers like lichen and in fungi, but this combination brings a strong sense of the interconnectedness of life and death of reproduction and decomposition. And so this is the cyclical world we live in, even though we're often myopically or delusionally, focused on some kind of progressive, linear, supernaturally immortal view of our lives. How are you imagining the reader encountering the beginning of this poem, and its images of sexually charged decomposition?Forrest GanderI'm, uh, trying to connect decomposition and eros, or the merging of more than one species, one individual, into a community. And I'm trying to use a syntax, which you notice, that also doesn't easily separate itself into clear, discrete sentences, but seems to be connected at both ends. And the sense is for us to lose our security in reading our feeling that we dominate the reading that we can figure it out quickly and divide it up into these parcels, and instead, create a kind of reading experience that mimics the kind of experience that we actually live, where everything is connected, and, and where the erotic and the decomposing are involved in the same processes.John FiegeYeah, and thanks to Governor Jerry Brown, lace lichen is now the official California state lichen making...Forrest Gander(Chuckles) Isn't that great? John Fiege...making California the first state to recognize a lichen as a state symbol. And the poem, like you were saying, how the syntax is mimicking the organic world. Visually, the line breaks and the varied intended indentations appear as local lace lichen itself. Can you talk about your relationship with lichen?Forrest GanderYes. You know, I think like you think, which is why you're doing these podcasts, that we're in an exigent historical moment where the environment is rapidly changing, and species are rapidly disappearing. And we've been hearing about this for decades without really responding in a sufficient way to the exigency of our situation. So I'm trying to find models of, instead of just heaping on more climate information horror, I'm trying to find models of other ways of thinking about our relationship with the world. And one, since I have a background in science—I have a degree in geology—is a scientific one. And I worked with a mycologist, named Anne Pringle, who taught me to see fungus and lichen in places where I hadn't been seeing them before. And it turns out lichen covers about 92% of the world you can find lichen in. And despite that, most people know what it is. They've seen, like on rocks, green, brown, little spots. It turns out, scientists don't really know what lichen is.John FiegeIt's cool to find something that scientists don't feel like they know that much about.Forrest GanderIt is! And yet, it seems like there's more more of those things that we don't really know that we can't measure, that we can't feel like we are in control of it all. And lichen is these two—more actually, it's not just an algae and cyanobacteria, or Sienna bacteria and fungus that get together it there's more organisms that are involved that come together, and are transformed completely and can't go back to what they were. And they formed this new organism that acts completely differently. And we're not so different from that, that our own bodies are full of other organisms, and even our DNA contains DNA of parasites that long ago became incorporated into our system. So lichen gives us a way of thinking about the mutualities that our lives are really made of.John FiegeYeah, and this poem, "Forest," is part of that collection, Twice Alive, where you have "Post-Fire Forest" and other poems related to wildfire and the aftermath of them, and that collection follows on the heels of your previous collection, Be With, which, you know this moving series of eulogistic poems to your late wife. It seems that Be With wrestles with and processes personal grief, while "Twice Alive" adds the element of ecological trauma. How are those two realms of trauma-related phenomena—the personal and the ecological? And how do they play out in the poem?Forrest GanderThe poems of "Be With”… they are so personally painful to me, I couldn't even read from the book after I published it. I think I read twice and then stopped reading from it. And one, as Albert Camus says, you can't live on in a grief or depression that's so terrible that it doesn't leave you with any openings. And so I wanted to find positive things to write about. But we're living during an ecological crisis. So I'm, and I've been writing about that crisis through really most of my adult life. But I wanted to find positive ways of reimagining our relationship with the world and maybe with death also. Because in lichen, and in the metaphor of like, and work, to two or more things come together and are transformed. I thought of human intimacy and the way that my relationship, my close relationships, I'm transformed in those relationships, I become something else. And that thing, which is welded in love, has a durability, and lasts. And in the same way, scientists—some scientists are saying that our whole idea of death comes out of our mammalian orientation. And that may be because some things don't die, and have theoretical immortality, and lichen, given enough nutrients, may be one of those things.John FiegeThat's amazing. How does it make you feel to think about the possibility that there's something that actually has some kind of immortality?Forrest GanderHow does it make us feel? I think it checks what we have always thought we've known. And it checks our instinctual perspective. And that kind of check, I think, is really helpful in terms of how we begin to reimagine our place in a world of other species that are completely different from us, and yet, share so much DNA.John FiegeCan you tell me about the Sangam literary traditions that you've referenced as an important element of your recent work in Eco-poetry?Forrest GanderSure! What brought me to Sangam was looking for other models of relationships between the human and the nonhuman. And it turns out that, you know, 2000 years ago, in Southern India, there was a blossoming of literature, which came to be called Sangam, which means convergence, and that one of the two styles of that poetry, which is called Akam, it was considered not only unethical but impossible to write about human emotions, as though they were independent of the landscape around us, which affects our perceptions. And, it impacts how and what we feel. And so, using that model for poems and finding that the same five landscapes that come up in the Sangam poems are the same five landscapes that one can find in California, where I live, I used those Sangam poems as a kind of model for writing poems that expressed that mutuality of, of the human and the nonhuman in the five landscapes of California in my home.John Fiegeisn't that so satisfying on so many levels to be able to look so far back in history? And to see people encountering the world in ways that are so resonant with the ways you are, we are encountering the world today in a completely different part of the planet, even? It's kind of amazing.Forrest GanderIt is! And yeah, I think it's what we will find everywhere that, you know, the Native Americans in what we now called the United States. They didn't think that these European invaders would last very long because the European invaders hadn't lived for thousands of years, with animals and plants of this continent. And so they thought we would fail. And we have failed, we've failed to live in a way that takes into account our interdependence with the nonhuman world.John FiegeWell, jumping back into the poem, your word choices and juxtapositions and the sounds, and the rhythms of the words in the poem are so powerful. Here's a section that begins at the end of a stanza and carries on to the next, "a force call it nighttime thrusts mushrooms up from their lair." I like this idea of nighttime as a force that has the power to push things up out of the earth. And nighttime is when we rest, but also maybe when we have sex, or maybe when we don't have sex often enough. But how is nighttime of force for you?Forrest GanderBecause there are so many processes, especially plant processes, that take place after the sun goes down. And that often, we're not thinking about night being a reenergizing process for other species. And also, I'm connecting nighttime, and that darkness with the half-buried to the things that go on in the dark, the things that go on underground.John FiegeRight! Well, here's another section I'd like to dig into. If you don't mind me reading, I feel bad reading your poem as you read it so beautifully, but just to go through it again. Like memories, are they or punctuation? Was it something the earth said to provoke a response, tasking us to recall an evolutionary course, our long-ago initiation into the one among others? So in this section of the poem, you shift from third person into first person plural, and we don't exactly know what the 'we' or the 'us' is, but I'm imagining it to be our species collectively speaking with the earth here. I personified a personified Earth. And each of us is merely one among others, one person among other people, but also humans are just one among many other species on the earth. So what's going on here, with the earth being provocative, the shift to first person plural, and to us thinking about our evolutionary course?Forrest GanderSo I'm thinking of mushrooms as kind of exclamation marks that come up and call our attention to the nonhuman, and also how memories are like that, that they pop up from the darkness of our mind into our conscious mind. And that, what they remind us of, what any contact with a nonhuman reminds us of, is our involvement with them; our long ago initiated course as an interdependent species, as a community in a community, that we are one among many others, as you say, and that if we forget that, then we don't take care of the earth because we don't recognize that it's part of taking care of ourselves. And for many human communities and cultures earlier, this was de rigueur, it was understood that, that we were involved. Our lives were educations in how to live with the world around us. But we've become so separated from that in our urban cultures that we need reminding.John FiegeRight, right. Well, and that reminds me of another section of the poem, we have this phrase "newborn noticing." So the stanza it's in is, "and within my newborn noticing, have you popped up beside me, my love? Or were you here from the start?" And I love this idea of newborn noticing it suggests that we're noticing a new, but also noticing, as a newborn does, like Lao says—‘newborn baby, unbiased, undistracted, nonjudgmental.' And this section feels like it touches on our deeply ingrained, anthropocentrism and ignorance of other species, and maybe how poetry can help us notice the world around us more fully, especially the other-than-human world. What is this 'newborn noticing' to you?Forrest GanderRight, I'm so glad you bring up Lao Tzu, also. Lao Tzu says, "Those who are not in constant awe; surely some great tragedy will befall them." And hear the 'newborn noticing,' again, that earlier passage you mentioned, that connects the punctuation to coming out of the ground of the mushrooms, to memories that come out of the darkness of our mind into our conscious mind. That's also the birth of something.John FiegeSo here's... oh, go ahead.Forrest GanderI just like that you've been, I mean, some people ask, you know, what can we do in this environmental crisis, and one of the things we can do is to try to have a chorus of not just scientists and biologists, but a chorus of artists and priests, and poets. And that's what you've been doing: putting together that chorus of responses to our crisis. And I think it's going to take the voices of a lot of people from a lot of different trajectories, to affect any kind of change. So I'm proud of what you're doing.John FiegeYeah, I totally agree. And I'm glad you notice and appreciate that (chuckles). You know, one thing I say all the time is, you know, our environmental discourse is dominated by science, economics, and policy. And those three things are all extremely important, and we have to keep on top of all of them. But it's leaving out the whole rest of the human experience. And if we are not all focused on this problem, and dealing with it in the ways that we know how, and the ways that we know how to interact with the world, we just... we can't get there because the problem is... it's so overwhelming as it is to leave it up to a small portion of the population to address is not sufficient,Forrest GanderRight? Or it would have changed already. And I think what art and poetry and literature can do is add a kind of an emotional and psychological approach to it, that can add it to the science, and can be more convincing,John FiegeRight? And not even just like, a way to convince people, but just a way to, to understand and feel the problem is so much beyond, you know, just a reason-based problem that you can solve or not, you know, but that it's part of who you are and what you value in the world and what you know, get you up out of bed every morning.Forrest GanderThat's beautifully put. Yeah, I agree with you.John FiegeWell, here here's another line I love from the poem, "A swarm of meaning and decay." And this goes back to that cyclical view of life and death; birth and decomposition. And it also brings in this concept of meaning—this thing that humans are obsessed with. Our perpetual question of why—what is the meaning of life? And so much of the foundation of our understanding of meaning is bound up in the perpetuation of life. And oftentimes, in the avoidance of death, despite the need for death to bring life. Can you talk more about this "swarm of meaning and decay?"Forrest GanderSo the "swarm of meaning and decay" comes just a moment after my "newborn noticing." And here, the poem merges the human—we don't really know for sure whether I'm talking about human beings, or I'm talking about other forms of life that are emerging from the underworld, like fungus, for instance. And in that merging of subjectivity and world, I'm trying to emphasize how the human life and the processes of the life—lives that aren't human—are completely related to each other. It's interesting to me that the kind of poetry that I write is sometimes categorized as eco-poetry, the idea of Eco-poetry is that there might be a way of writing in which human subjectivity and the non-human aren't so discrete from each other and that we might be able to show in writing, a different way of experiencing, or really, the real way of experiencing our relationships with otherness, which is that our subjectivities merge into otherness. That we're made of multiple creatures and were made by multiple interactions with the world. And I think that's what art has always done, is that it's expanded our way of thinking of the human.John FiegeDefinitely, definitely. Well, let me jump into the last two stanzas in the poem, which read, "And abundance floods us floats us out, we fill each with the other all morning breaks as songbird over us who rise to the surface, so our faces might be strong." And again, there's so much richness in this language. But to start off with, how does abundance, both flood us and float us?Forrest GanderWell, our lives are abundant; the world is abundant. And that sense of merging with another in intimacy, in love, and merging with the world is a sense of expanding. This, you know, the notion of the self, and that's an abundance, it's recognizing our collaborative relationship with otherness. And it floats us out of ourselves so that we're not locked into our own minds, our own singular psyches, we fill with each other. And then again, here, the syntax is working in two ways. We fill with each other, we fill with the other "all morning". And then we revise that as we, as we make that break. We fill with the other "all morning breaks as birdsong over us." And I'm thinking here about how human beings, Homo sapiens, from the start, almost all of human beings have experienced birdsong since we were born, since early in our lives. We've grown up with the songs of birds infused in our minds, in our hearing. And how much of a part of us birdsong is. We're rising to the surface like the mushrooms coming from underground to blossom so that our faces might be sprung. And here again, the human and the nonhuman? Am I talking about mushrooms here? Or am I talking about human beings? I'm purposely talking about both in a way that is perhaps indistinguishable.John FiegeAnd as you mentioned, the poem starts with the imagery of the mushrooms thrusting upward. And then, at the end here, it seems that the we in the poem rises to the surface. And the last line of the poem is, so our faces might be sprung. This sense of emergence comes to that most intimate thing—our faces—and this vague 'we' suddenly has a face. And we are like flowers or emergent mushrooms in the nighttime. Where does this poem leave you? And how do you think about where you'd like to leave the reader at the end?Forrest GanderI think in that uncertainty about where the human and where the non-human begins, I think that's the strategy of the poems, which is presenting not some romantic notion of our involvement with others, but I think a form of realism, it's recognizing that our involvement with otherness is entire, that were composed of otherness. So I think the feeling of what a mushroom is, is just the face, it's this little—fruited body, they call it—of an organism that's underground that we don't see at all. And, in a way, that's what our lives are also: this brief flourishing of the face of something that's connected to a body that's much larger than ours. And that ambiguous space is what I'm interested in, in thinking about.John FiegeAnd does that noticing or that knowledge calls us to do something? In particular, do you think?Forrest Gander  32:43Well, I don't want to turn the poem into a didacticism. But the poem presents a vision. And that vision can contribute to the way that we see ourselves in the world. And the way we see ourselves in the world forces us to make ethical decisions about how we are and what we do. So in, I want to provide a vision or share a vision. And I want readers to do with it what they feel called upon to do. There have been different ways that we've understood our relationship and our role in a living Earth, through time and in different cultures. And the worldview that we have now, which is using the Earth very transactional, can be changed. And that art can inspire us to imagine those kinds of changes. In some ways, we're like the yeast that gets put with grapes to make wine. The yeast, which is a fungus, eats the sugar, and it secretes basically alcohol. That's what where we get alcohol from, and it proliferates and proliferates, and keeps producing alcohol until at about 13%. The yeast kills itself it dies because it can't live with an alcohol content greater than that. And we're like that yeast on this earth. We're using up all of the resources, and we're proliferating, and pretty soon, there's not going to be room for us to live on the world will pollute ourselves out of existence, and the world will go on. It's just that we won't be part of it.John FiegeThat's a beautiful place to end; with yeast, and lichen, and erogenous zones. All swirling around together. Can you end by reading the poem once again?Forrest GanderSure. So, 'forest' is one of the five major landscapes that appear in the Sangam poems.[See poem as transcribed above]John FiegeForrest, thank you so much. This has been wonderful.Forrest GanderThanks a lot, John. I'm really pleased to be a part of your series and to be part of the chorus of voices that you're putting together.John FiegeAnd it's a beautiful voice that you've brought to it. OutroJohn FiegeThank you so much to Forrest Gander. Go to our website at chrysalispodcast.org, where you can read his poem "Forrest" and find our book and media recommendations. This episode was researched by Elena Cebulash and edited by Brody Mutschler and Sophia Chang. Music is by Daniel Rodriguez Vivas, mixing is by Juan Garcia. If you enjoyed my conversation with Forrest, please rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Contact me anytime at chrysalispodcast.org, where you can also support the project, subscribe to our newsletter, and join the conversation. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.chrysalispodcast.org

Forrest Gander and Olivia E. Sears, moderated by CJ Evans Voltaire once claimed, "It is impossible to translate poetry. Can you translate music?" If that's true, these talented translators have certainly achieved the impossible—in this session, they'll share insights into how they did so. Olivia Sears and Forrest Gander will read from their translations and also engage in conversation—moderated by CJ Evans, poet and editorial director of Two Lines Press—about the unique (if not impossible) challenges and rewards that poetry grants the translator. Buy the books here 

Roxi Power talks with Brenda Hillman, winner this month of the Northern California Book Reviewers' Fred Cody Award  for Lifetime Achievement, about her 11th book of poetry with Wesleyan University Press, In a Few Minutes Before Later.   We discuss her new trans-genre tetralogy about time: how to find calm during the Anthropocene by being in time in multiple ways: sinking into the micro-minutes; performing micro-activism; and celebrating the microbiome. We explore her influences–from Blake to Bergson, Clare to Baudelaire, as well as the less celebrated moss, owls, and wood rats that appear frequently in her eco-poetry.  Alive with humor, witness, creative design and punctuation–what Forrest Gander calls “typographical expressionism”--Hillman's poetry teaches us how to abide in crisis from Covid to California fires, living in paradox as a way to transcend despair. Brenda Hillman shares the Fred Cody Lifetime Achievement Award with with Isabel Allende, Daniel Ellsberg, Michael Pollan, Ishmael Reed, Gary Snyder, Robert Duncan, Alice Walker and others. Winner of the William Carlos Williams Prize, the Los Angeles Times Book Award, the International Griffin Poetry Prize (for Seasonal Works with Letters on Fire, 2013), the Northern California Book Award (for Extra Hidden Life, among the Days, 2018) and fellowships from the Guggenheim Foundation and the Academy of American Poets, Brenda Hillman was born in Tucson, Arizona and has been an active part of the Bay Area literary community since 1975.   She has edited an edition of Emily Dickinson's poems for Shambhala Press, and co-edited and co-translated several books.  She is director of the Poetry Program at the Community of Writers in Olympic Valley and is on the regular poetry staff ad Napa Valley Writers Conference. Hillman just retired from teaching in the MFA Program at St. Mary's College in Moraga, CA.  She has worked as an activist for social and environmental justice. She is a mother, grandmother, and is married to poet, Robert Hass.  Photograph by Robert Hass.

Poet, author, and co-founder of The Song Cave, Alan Felsenthal guest hosts this episode's focus on poetry. As a close friend and mentee of Michael Silverblatt's, Felsenthal recalls Michael's revelation that he had trouble finding his way into poetry until he had several formative experiences, including one he described in 2019 during a Walt Whitman tribute. We'll hear from that tribute with poet Pattiann Rogers reading Whitman. We'll also hear from poets John Ashbery, Coral Bracho, Forrest Gander, and Lucille Clifton.

We're back! I'm super-excited about the new series of shows we've been recording over the past year here at the Chrysalis podcast.The new series focus on poets, artists, cooks, and community organizers, and we'll be releasing them alongside more of our original Conversations series that spans a wide range of environmental thought and storytelling—engaging the climate crisis as a cultural crisis.I interviewed Pulitzer Prize-winning poet, Forrest Gander, and here's how he described what we're doing with the podcast:“A chorus of not just scientists and biologists but a chorus of artists and priests and poets, and that's what you've been doing is putting together this other chorus of responses to our crisis. And I think it's going to take the voices of a lot of people from a lot of different trajectories to effect any kind of change.”I completely agree.Subscribe to the podcast to hear my conversations with this growing ecological chorus, and subscribe to our newsletter to receive poems, artworks, recipes, and ideas on how to support the amazing work of community-based environmental organizations that I highlight on the show.It's all at ChrysalisPodcast.org.And please show your support by telling your friends.You can find the trailer and the show on Substack, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Audible, Stitcher, iHeart, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, and other podcast platforms. Please rate and review to help us spread the word!Please share the trailer far and wide! This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.chrysalispodcast.org

This April's issue of Poetry celebrates the 2022 Ruth Lilly Poetry Prize recipients. In previous years, one poet was awarded the prize. This year, in honor of the 110th anniversary of the magazine, eleven poets were selected—a nod to the eleven decades of the magazine's existence. This week, we hear from one of these winners, someone who's been illuminating a way forward for poetry for over fifty years: Arthur Sze. Sze is a poet, a translator, and an editor. He's authored eleven books of poetry, most recently The Glass Constellation: New and Collected Poems out from Copper Canyon Press. We asked his friend, Pulitzer Prize winning writer Forrest Gander, to speak with Sze for this episode of the podcast. Sze shares the story of how he became a poet, which included encouragement from poets and teachers Denise Levertov and Josephine Miles, and the two recall how their friendship started through publication. Not surprisingly, they also lead us into the cosmos. Sze introduces the ancient Sanskrit idea of Indra's net: Everything that happens in the cosmos is like a crystal. If you imagine the cosmos as an immense chandelier and shine light into it, each hanging jewel reflects and absorbs the light of every other. “That's one of the things poetry does,” Sze says. “We're not writing in competition—we're all trying to create poems, and they're all shining light on each other.

Forrest Gander, a writer and translator with degrees in geology and literature, was born in the Mojave Desert. He has been awarded the Pulitzer Prize and fellowships from the Guggenheim, Whiting and United Artists foundations. Gander has most recently published Twice Alive: An Ecology of Intimacies (with an essay by N. Manu Chakravarthy). Gander, who taught at Harvard and Brown University, translates books by poets from Spain, Latin America, and Japan. Pulitzer winning poet Forrest Gander reads from his collection, Twice Alive: An Ecology of Intimacies, followed by the screening of a film on poetry and interaction with the audience. This episode of BIC Talks is an adaptation of a live event that took place in February 2022. Subscribe to the BIC Talks Podcast on your favourite podcast app! BIC Talks is available everywhere, including iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Castbox, Overcast and Stitcher.

In conjunction with ALTA Journal, City Lights presents John Freeman with Forrest Gander reading from new poetry. John Freeman celebrates his new collection of poetry "Wind, Trees" published by Copper Canyon Press. This live event took place in Kerouac Alley, between City Lights and Vesuvio Cafe, and was hosted by Peter Maravelis with an opening statement by Blaise Zerega. You can purchase copies of "Wind, Trees" directly from City Lights here: https://citylights.com/wind-trees/ John Freeman is the founder of the literary annual Freeman's, and an executive editor at Alfred A. Knopf. His books include "How To Read a Novelist" and "Dictionary of the Undoing", as well as a trilogy of anthologies about inequality, including "Tales of Two Americas: Stories of Inequality in a Divided Nation," and "Tales of Two Planets," which features dispatches from around the world, where the climate crisis has unfolded at crucially different rates. His poetry collections include "Maps" and "The Park." His work has been translated into more than twenty languages and appeared in The New Yorker, The Paris Review, Orion and Zyzzyva. He is a former editor of Granta and a Writer in Residence at New York University. Forrest Gander is a Pulitzer Prize Winning poet, author, translator, and essayist. He is the author of numerous books of poetry, fiction, and essays. "Twice Alive" is his latest collection of poetry. His translations include the work of Gozo Yoshimasu, Pablo Neruda, Alfonso D'Aquino, and Raúl Zurita. He has received numerous honors for his work, including the Pulitzer Prize for "Be With," and the Best Translated Book Award, as well as fellowships from the Library of Congress, the Guggenheim Foundation, and United States Artists. He makes his home in Northern California. Alta Journal is a quarterly publication for anyone seeking an insider's take on this most forward-thinking region. From arts and culture, to technology and the environment, to food and fashion—what happens ​​​​​​in California and the West happens everywhere. Each large-format issue (the West demands a wide lens) demystifies the region with provocative essays, cultural commentary, deeply reported investigations, original fiction and poetry, sumptuous photos, topical cartoons, and more. Founded in 2017 by William R. Hearst III, Alta Journal provides an exciting—and much-needed—literary perspective on the West, sparking conversations that are as diverse and vibrant as the place itself. In this era of rapid change, the award-winning Alta Journal offers an immersive reading experience like no other. To learn more visit: https://www.altaonline.com/ This event was made possible by support from the City Lights Foundation: citylights.com/foundation

Forrest Gander, Christina MacSweeney, Megan McDowell, Achy Obejas, Nathan Scott McNamara To translate an author's work—staying faithful to their vision, style, and message, in a language not their own—is to assume an awesome responsibility: one that hasn't always gotten its just due as an art form. Four of today's most noteworthy and acclaimed translators of Latin American contemporary literature will shed light on the origins, rewards, pitfalls, and complexities of their discipline. Christina MacSweeney, a recipient of the Valle Inclan prize, has translated the works of leading Spanish-language authors including Valeria Luiselli, Jazmina Barrera, and Elvira Navarro. Megan McDowell, who received the English PEN award and whose works in translation have been nominated four times for the International Booker Prize, has translated many of the most important Latin American authors working today, including Samanta Schweblin, Alejandro Zambra, and Mariana Enriquez. Havana-born translator Achy Obejas, who has worked with Wendy Guerra, Rita Indiana, Junot Díaz, and Megan Maxwell, is also the author of a recent collection of poetry written in a mostly gender-free Spanish and English. And Pulitzer Prize–winning poet Forrest Gander, also a renowned translator, will share insights from his distinguished career. Find out why translation is a journey of never-ending discovery, creativity, and lessons in cross-cultural sensitivity and communication.Sponsored by the Center for the Art of Translation.

Connor and Jack delve ever deeper into the world of poetic line breaks. This time they're looking at how line breaks build rhythm in poems. They discuss rhythm within lines running through various literary terms and talking through some of the most popular meters. Then they move on to how line breaks facilitate rhythm through rhyme and anaphora. using examples from Oodgeroo Noonuccal and Forrest Gander. Stay tuned for the galactic premier of a new, impromptu song all about line breaks. Episode 1 of Line Break Week - Why break lines?: https://soundcloud.com/close-talking/episode-157-why-break-a-line-line-break-week-ep-1 Episode 2 of Line Break Week - Drama: https://soundcloud.com/close-talking/episode-158-who-will-bring-the-drama-the-line-break-line-break-week-ep-2 Episode 3 of Line Break Week - Miming: https://soundcloud.com/close-talking/episode-159-dramas-silent-cousin-miming-with-line-breaks-line-break-week-ep-3 Episode 4 of Line Break Week - Emphasis: https://soundcloud.com/close-talking/episode-160-using-poetic-line-breaks-for-emphasis-line-break-week-ep-4 Find us on Facebook at: facebook.com/closetalking 
Find us on Twitter at: twitter.com/closetalking
 Find us on Instagram: @closetalkingpoetry You can always send us an e-mail with thoughts on this or any of our previous podcasts, as well as suggestions for future shows, at closetalkingpoetry@gmail.com.

Connor and Jack discuss "Beckoned" by living legend Forrest Gander. The poem, from Gander's Pulitzer Prize winning collection "Be With" grapples with grief and loss. In the discussion, Connor and Jack touch on the poem's use of anaphora and use of sound, investigate the ways nature imagery shows up throughout, and even find some stylistic connections between the poem and the current Marvel Disney+ series, Moonknight. Beckoned By: Forrest Gander At which point my grief-sounds ricocheted outside of language. Something like a drifting swarm of bees. At which point in the tetric silence that followed I was swarmed by those bees and lost consciousness. At which point there was no way out for me either. At which point I carried on in a semi-coma, dreaming I was awake, avoiding friends and puking, plucking stingers from my face and arms. At which point her voice was pinned to a backdrop of vaporous color. At which point the crane's bustles flared. At which point, coming to, I knew I'd pay the whole flag-pull fare. At which point the driver turned and said it doesn't need to be your fault for it to break you. At which point without any lurching commencement, he began to play a vulture-bone flute. At which point I grew old and it was like ripping open the beehive with my hands again. At which point I conceived a realm more real than life. At which point there was at least some possibility. Some possibility, in which I didn't believe, of being with her once more. Find us on Facebook at: facebook.com/closetalking 
Find us on Twitter at: twitter.com/closetalking
 Find us on Instagram: @closetalkingpoetry You can always send us an e-mail with thoughts on this or any of our previous podcasts, as well as suggestions for future shows, at closetalkingpoetry@gmail.com.

New Directions at 85: The Anniversary Celebration with Forrest Gander as MC and Rosmarie Waldrop, Susan Howe, Nathaniel Tarn, Nathaniel Mackey, Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Sylvia Legris, Michael Palmer, Will Alexander, Eliot Weinberger, and other surprise guests. This event was originally broadcast live via zoom on Thursday, June 3, 2021 and was introduced by City Lights' Peter Maravelis and hosted by Forrest Gander. New Directions was founded in 1936 by James Laughlin, then a Harvard University sophomore, via advice from Ezra Pound to "do something useful" after finishing his studies at Harvard. The first projects to come out of New Directions were anthologies of new writing, each titled "New Directions in Poetry and Prose" (until 1966's NDPP 19). Early writers incorporated in these anthologies include Dylan Thomas, Marianne Moore, Wallace Stevens, Thomas Merton, Denise Levertov, James Agee, and Lawrence Ferlinghetti. New Directions publishing program includes writing of all genres, representing not only American writing, but also a considerable amount of literature in translation from modernist authors around the world. Among some of the writers they have published are Nobel Prize Winners: Andre Gide, Pablo Neruda, Boris Pasternak, Octavio Paz, Pulitzer Prize Winners: Hilton Als, George Oppen, Gary Snyder, Williams Carlos Williams, National Book Award Winners: Yoko Tawada, Nathaniel Mackey, Man Booker Prize Winner László Krasznahorkai, as well as many others. The current focus of New Directions is threefold: discovering and introducing to the US contemporary international writers; publishing new and experimental American poetry and prose; and reissuing New Directions' classic titles in new editions. Drawing from the tradition of the early anthologies and series, New Directions launched the Pearl series, which presents short works by New Directions writers in slim, minimalist volumes designed by Rodrigo Corral.

Forrest Gander joins Kevin Young to read “Privacy,” by Ada Limón, and his own poem “Post-Fire Forest.” Gander is a Chancellor of the Academy of American Poets, a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and the winner of a Pulitzer Prize for his collection “Be With.”

Born in the Mojave Desert in Barstow, California, Forrest Gander grew up in Virginia and spent significant years with the poet CD Wright, in San Francisco, Dolores Hidalgo, Mexico, Eureka Springs, AR, and Providence, RI. With CD Wright, he has a son, the artist Brecht Wright Gander. Forrest holds degrees in both geology and English literature. He lives now in northern California with the artist Ashwini Bhat.Gander's book Be With was awarded the 2019 Pulitzer Prize. Concerned with the way we are revised and translated in encounters with the foreign, his book Core Samples from the World was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize and the National Book Critics Circle Award. Gander has collaborated frequently with other artists including photographers Sally Mann, Graciela Iturbide, Raymond Meeks, and Lucas Foglia, glass artist Michael Rogers, ceramic artists Rick Hirsch and Ashwini Bhat, artists Ann Hamilton,Tjibbe Hooghiemstra, dancers Eiko & Koma, and musicians Vic Chesnutt and Brady Earnhart, among others. The author of numerous other books of poetry, including Redstart: An Ecological Poetics and Science & Steepleflower, Gander also writes novels (As a Friend; The Trace), essays(A Faithful Existence) and translates. His most recent translations are Alice Iris Red Horse: Poems of Gozo Yoshimasu, Then Come Back: the Lost Neruda Poems and Fungus Skull Eye Wing: Selected Poems of Alfonso D'Aquino. His most recent anthologies are Pinholes in the Night: Essential Poems from Latin American (selected by Raúl Zurita) and Panic Cure: Poems from Spain for the 21st Century.Gander's books have been translated and published in more than a dozen other languages. He is a United States Artists Rockefeller Fellow and has received fellowships from The National Endowment for the Arts and the Guggenheim, Whiting, and Howard Foundations. In 2011, he was awarded the Library of Congress Witter Bynner Fellowship. Gander was the Briggs-Copeland poet at Harvard University before becoming The Adele Kellenberg Seaver Professor of Literary Arts and Comparative Literature at Brown University where he taught courses such as Poetry & Ethics, EcoPoetics, Latin American Death Trip, and Translation Theory & Practice. He is a Chancellor for the Academy of American Poets and an elected member of The Academy of Arts & Sciences.

Mary & Wyatt peel off their sweaty running clothes and settle in for a very real & vulnerable conversation about failure and some big changes coming to the pod. Mary talks about the trajectory of success in her career and her uncertainty about the future. Wyatt talks about the relationship between their bipolar disorder and their fear of failure. Also on the agenda: Mary is risking it all to be a TikTok star and is related to Marie Antoinette (probably), Wyatt wants to start the College School Bus, and poems by Forrest Gander and Rosemary Tonks. Donate or volunteer for Houston Haitians United to help Haitian migrants transitioning to life in Texas: https://linktr.ee/hhunited1804

Why create? This is the question we ask every time we make an episode, and the first one we post to the trainees in our podcast training program. It's also one of the questions driving season 3 of Shelter in Place, which launches next week. We're exploring how to embrace life with all of its flaws and fragments, and find our way toward creative, purposeful living. In one of our most-listened to episodes ever, National Poetry Series winner Teresa K. Miller shares what she's learned about living creatively when life gets tough. Teresa K. Miller's National Poetry Series–winning collection, Borderline Fortune, will be released by Penguin on October 5, 2021, and is available for pre-order everywhere books are sold. Signed copies can be pre-ordered from Seattle's Elliott Bay Book Co. (enter "signed copy" in the comments at checkout). Her book tour begins Saturday, September 25, with a virtual conversation with Pulitzer Prize winner Forrest Gander, who was longlisted for the National Book Awards this past week. You can find all of Teresa's virtual and in-person stops on her book tour at teresakmiller.net/events. Find complete show notes and sign up for our weekly-ish newsletter at www.shelterinplacepodcast.org. Every month we send you a new surprise gift. As always, you can support Shelter in Place when you buy wine from www.brickandmortarwines.com or winesforchange.com and enter the promo code SHELTER when you check out. Follow us @shelterinplacepodcast on IG and FB and @PodcastShelter on Twitter to tell us you're listening! We love hearing from our listeners. A Hurrdat Media Production. Hurrdat Media is a digital media and commercial video production company based in Omaha, NE. Find more podcasts on the Hurrdat Media Network and learn more about our other services today on HurrdatMedia.com.

A memorial tribute to Michael McClure with readings and remembrances by Russ Tamblyn, CAConrad, Margaret Randall, Forrest Gander, George Herms, Henry Kaiser, Jerome Rothenberg, Cedar Sigo, Garrett Caples, Paul Nelson, Lyn Hejinian, Andrew Schelling, Amy McClure, Jane McClure, and Joanna McClure. This event was originally broadcast live via Zoom and hosted by Peter Maravelis. Michael McClure (1932-2020) was an award-winning American poet, playwright, songwriter, and novelist. After moving to San Francisco as a young man, he was one of the five poets who participated in the Six Gallery reading that featured the public debut of Allen Ginsberg's landmark poem "Howl." A key figure of the Beat Generation, McClure is immortalized as Pat McLear in Jack Kerouac's novels The Dharma Bums and Big Sur. He also participated in the 60s counterculture alongside musicians like Janis Joplin and Jim Morrison. He taught for many years at California College of the Arts and lived with his wife, Amy, in the San Francisco Bay Area. Sponsored by the City Lights Foundation.

Forrest Gander is the author of the poetry collection Twice Alive, available now from New Directions. In 2019, he was awarded the Pulitzer Prize for Poetry for his collection Be With. Gander's other books include Core Samples from the World, which was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize and the National Book Critics Circle Award. He has collaborated frequently with other artists including photographers Sally Mann, Graciela Iturbide, Raymond Meeks, and Lucas Foglia, glass artist Michael Rogers, ceramic artists Rick Hirsch and Ashwini Bhat, artists Ann Hamilton, Tjibbe Hooghiemstra, dancers Eiko & Koma, and musicians Vic Chesnutt and Brady Earnhart, among others.  Gander was born in the Mojave Desert and grew up in Virginia. In addition to writing poetry, he has translated works by Coral Bracho, Alfonso D'Aquino, Pura Lopez-Colome, Pablo Neruda, and Jaime Saenz. The recipient of grants from the Library of Congress, the Guggenheim, Howard, Whiting, and United States Artists Foundations, he taught for many years as the AK Seaver Professor of Literary Arts & Comparative Literature at Brown University. *** Otherppl with Brad Listi is a weekly literary podcast featuring in-depth interviews with today's leading writers. Launched in 2011. Books. Literature. Writing. Publishing. Authors. Screenwriters. Life. Death. Etc. Support the show on Patreon Merch www.otherppl.com @otherppl Instagram  YouTube Email the show: letters [at] otherppl [dot] com The podcast is a proud affiliate partner of Bookshop, working to support local, independent bookstores. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Forrest Gander is a poet, translator and novelist, whose 2018 poetry collection, "Be With," won the Pulitzer Prize. His most recent collection of poems is, "Twice Alive."

Recorded by Forrest Gander for Poem-a-Day, a series produced by the Academy of American Poets. Published on April 13, 2021. www.poets.org

BGBS 044: Mark O'Brien | Newfangled | I'll Do Anything Mark O'Brien may currently be the CEO of Newfangled, but you'll soon learn that he is a man of many passions. Growing up, Mark had his sights set on pursuing a career in the Catholic Church. As a young adult, he landed his dream job at a restaurant he idolized while working toward a degree in poetry. Finally, he worked his way up from an HTML intern position at Newfangled to find his true calling as the owner. Fascinated? Us too.  And of course, we can't forget the patented Mark O'Brien phrase that guaranteed him his dreams along the way: ”I'll do anything.” As the CEO today, Mark believes in making his business something he loves so much that it'd be crazy to step away from. That means facilitating Newfangled to reach new heights at what it does best, “helping marketers market.” Ultimately, Mark inspires us with the idea that we can absolutely be the best in the world at anything we put our minds to. With our minds open to the possibilities, we encourage you to look inward and ask, what do you want to be the best in the world at? In this episode, you'll learn... Mark originally went to liberal arts school for a specialized poetry education to serve his musical interests Catholicism was a huge influence on Mark, prompting him to pursue becoming a deacon until a change in events led him to turn away from religion altogether at a young age Mark found solace in the Bentleys, a healthy, semi-parental relationship he made at an otherwise dark time in his life Richard Bentley taught Mark a Chinese martial art called Wushu to protect himself at a time when he literally feared for his life at school Food is 100% Mark's primary love language! Mark's goal in life was to work at his dream job, Al Forno, for 10 years until a realization became the catalyst for his first midlife crisis While working 3 jobs at 90 hours a week, Mark offered to work for free at Newfangled Web Graphics and got a response that turned his world around Moving to North Carolina kick-started a remote role for Mark (which was rare at the time) where he was able to flourish while selling for Newfangled Mark was a jack of all trades with many hats within Newfangled. His dedication to the business led to a life-changing offer that he couldn't refuse Newfangled is serious about working with companies that desire a stark culture change and better control of their future "Never sell, never retire" - a life-changing value that inspires Mark to be the best he can be at his business Resources Newfangled Mark O'Brien LinkedIn Quotes [15:11] I was terrified. So my dad had moved away, my religion fell apart. I was truly afraid for my life each day I went to school. These are tough times. But the Bentleys were this rock. [24:01] I got my dream job. And within six months through all sorts of contortions of the universe, I was running the place. I achieved my 10-year goal in six months [44:20] If you're properly specialized, you absolutely can be the best in the world at something. [49:32] I'm so grateful for what I get to do every day. This is an incredible business. It's an incredible business full of wonderful people. And we do work for wonderful people. Podcast Transcript Mark O'Brien 0:02 I wanted to be a priest but I didn't—I would have liked to have been a priest but I didn't want to because I knew I want to have a family. And so as I go, I won't become a deacon I grew up I was an altar boy, I was the head of the see why oh, I was in. I was in and loved it until the priesthood mentoring for six years. Once my parents divorced, he tried to have relationship with me. And that was the end of Catholicism for me and the end of Christianity for me. I'm starting to come back around a lot now. But what happened was it that door just closed my mind as soon as he made that advance. And thank God, I was big enough to get the hell out of this room. But as soon as you made that advance, a door instantly closed my mind. I don't even know it closed. I didn't know close till years later and look back, but I just never I wanted nothing to do with any organized religion at all. From that second onward. Marc Gutman 0:56 Podcasting from Boulder, Colorado, this is the Baby Got Backstory Podcast, where we dive into the story behind the story of today's most inspiring storytellers, creators and entrepreneurs. I like big back stories and I cannot lie. I am your host, Marc Gutman, Marc Gutman, and on today's episode of Baby Got Backstory. We are hearing the story of Mark O'Brien, CEO and owner of the marketing agency newfangled. Alright, alright. Now if you like and enjoy the show, please take a minute or two to rate and review us over at Apple podcasts, or Spotify. Whichever one you listen to most, Apple and Spotify use these ratings as part of the algorithms that determine the ratings on their charts. And ratings help us to build an audience, which that helps us to continue to preach the show. well enough of that. Let's get into today's episode is you're about to hear Mark O'Brien has quite a story. As a young child, he thought he was going to have a career in the Catholic Church, only to become disillusioned and disconnected from that organization for reasons you'll hear early in the episode. After landing his dream job working at the fine dining restaurant he idolized, Mark found his true calling, leading a creative agency today, Newfangled, what a great name is the marketing agency for well, marketing agencies. If that sounds odd, it makes perfect sense when Mark talks about it. But this episode really isn't about marketing agencies. It's about the fascinating and twisty journey of Mark O'Brien. And this this is story. All right, I am here with Mark O'Brien, the CEO of newfangled. What a great name, I love that name. And I want to get into where that came from. And he says he's the CEO, but not the founder, and which is pretty cool. And we're going to talk about that. And, Mark. Welcome. And I want to say when when you sent your bio to us, which we have every guest Do you know you had your like kind of normal bio, but actually leading that bio was the brief version that went cook, intern, coder, President owner. And I just think that is a so awesome. I believe less is more, you know, I love the old quote, I would have written a shorter letter if I had more time in the economy of words. And I think that says it all. So we could probably wrap this interview right now. What do you think? Mark O'Brien 3:35 Enjoyed it! Thanks, Marc. Bye. Marc Gutman 3:39 Well, thank you very, very much for coming on the show. And when you were growing up, like young Mark would did, were you always destined to be a marketer? Mark O'Brien 3:51 No, no, I actually had a fair bit of stress growing up, because I had no idea what I what I could possibly do for a living. And I had no idea what I how it could get by I remember thinking, wow, like look at in my parents house, like look, look at that, washing machine and dryer, how could I ever afford to buy a washing machine and dryer? Yeah. The whole thing seemed quite daunting. And I had no idea at all what I'm doing, which makes sense now because what I do didn't exist then. Marc Gutman 4:24 And like so what did your parents do? Like what gave you that sort of impression that a washer and a dryer was just unattainable? Like what were their careers? Mark O'Brien 4:36 I don't think they did anything to damage me in that way. It was just all inside my own head. My dad is a scientist, primarily a biochemist, but he's in all sorts of other things as well. And my mom when I was growing up was just the consummate Mom, you know, she she was there. She did start working once I got a little bit older, but she was awesome. homemaker of the highest order and took took a deep, deep deep pride in that rightfully so. Marc Gutman 5:08 It's funny like like I have the reverse problem now I look around I'm like how do I afford that washer and dryer doesn't even work this isn't this is insane and I don't want to think about it you make you're giving You're giving me anxiety go back to go go back to childhood or go back to so. So where were you growing up? Like what was? Where did you grow up? What was the town like what you know, what was life like for young Mark? Mark O'Brien 5:35 Young Mark. So I'm born in Providence, Rhode Island, and it was so it's a city a small city, but a city and then moved to Danbury, Connecticut out in the country when I was six. So I did most of my growing up in Danbury, it's about 10 minutes for the New York border, spent a lot of time in the woods in the reservoir, just camping out and playing with friends. So it was it was a real idyllic upbringing, walking to school, through the trails, things like that. playing outside and swimming and canoeing in the summer and ice skating and sledding in the winter. It was wonderful. I really fell in love with the country in those 12 years I was in Danbury from six to 18 and actually end up going back to Providence for college and stayed there for Gosh, about eight years or so total not not college, just Providence and and I missed the country deeply when I was in the city so when I moved down to North Carolina in oh three I made sure that I found a place deep in the country which I did. I'm at Chapel Hill still today but you know the chapel is a pretty rural area I'll hold hold on. Marc Gutman 6:44 I love that and that's interesting like I haven't like had a lot of experience with Rhode Island but not you and the guests right before you Foley Fish and only if you're familiar with them but Rhode Island isn't the the biggest place they're in that area and that they're efficient fish processing and market so pretty interesting. It's like Mark O'Brien 7:01 Foley Fish? Marc Gutman 7:02 Foley Fish Yes, yes, Mark O'Brien 7:04 I know Foley Fish really well actually mentioned them, so what's your connection to Foley fish? Marc Gutman 7:10 They're the guest that's preceding you on Baby got backstory so they're gonna you know people who've listened about Foley Fish will now be getting into Mark O'Brien and hearing all about Rhode Island and and outside of like Dumb and Dumber and fairly brother movies. You know, like I you know, I don't have a lot of Rhode Island experience Mark O'Brien 7:30 Rhode Island's a wonderful place, particularly the summertime, it's wonderful, but Foley Fish. So my very brief bio there, part of it was cook and I ran the kitchenette, a quite prestigious place. There's a story behind that. But I found myself doing that, to my surprise. And their supplier was Foley Fish. And we went in toward the entire fully facility. And it was amazing. They're they're an extraordinary organization, that they're one of those organizations that you know, the people who run it, it doesn't matter what what business they ended up in, it was going to be an excellent business. You know what I mean? Like they they're not in the fish business. They're they're in the I don't know what business they're in. But Gosh, they they are operating a level head and shoulders above everybody else in that marketplace. And the good, amazing innovation in terms of you know how to keep fish fresh, everything else. Incredible, incredible customer service and just impeccable, impeccable product. They're there. They're really an extraordinary, extraordinary organization. And one, I wouldn't mind modeling some aspects of Newfangled after even though we're in marketing and they're fishmongers. Marc Gutman 8:41 Yeah, I mean, we're not here to talk about them, but they've been in business for 114 years. And to me, you know, I've worked with some iconic brands, where basically the the model is don't mess it up, you know, but, uh, you know, but like, very few businesses have been around that long. So super, super cool. And if you've listened to that episode, and you're, you're coming in now, you're gonna have a little bit of context, and if not go back and listen to that one. But I want to get back to you know, you mentioned you were back in Rhode Island, you went to college, where we were interested in and what were you studying at that time? Mark O'Brien 9:15 Okay, so my interest then, so was cooking. Okay, so I, I started working pretty young. My first job was as a caddy at a golf course. I think I was 12 or 13. That was a terrible job. Did not enjoy that. And then I was a busboy at a Chinese restaurant. And then my friend Rosie, she worked at this Italian place, and is small, like 30 seater, run by husband and wife and they needed a busboy and so I left the Chinese place to go to the Italian place and it changed my life. I start in the front of the house with Manuela then with a Bentley, the wife of the husband, wife and got to know Richard Bentley. And the the Cook, or whatever. And I fell in love with and with cuisine, and my mom was always a fantastic cook. Again, under the heading of homemaker such as existed in the 80s. It was, you know, the classic stuff lasagna, shepherd's pie, chicken pot pie, apple pie, a lot of pies. But she was the best cook on both sides of the family. She was amazing cook. So I always grew up around really, really good food and well prepared food. But actually learning how to do this in a modern way in a restaurant was very different for me. And I wanted to go to culinary school I was I was dead set on going to culinary school, but my mom was the boss. And she basically forbade me and made me go get a liberal arts education. I'm very glad she did. So I went to Providence College. And I decided to and so I went to Providence College. And I was very happy to do that. Because Al Forno my dream restaurant was there. And that's, that's why I made the full connection. And and I went knowing that I was going to work full time in restaurants the whole time through college, as I did through high school. And I did, and I'm also a very big music fan always have been. And so I decided, well, I'm going to take a specialization in poetry, after falling in with a poetry professor who was just fantastic, and actually just won a Pulitzer recently, which is great, and he very well deserved. And I took a specialized major with him basically for poetry, in order to become a better a better lyric writer to serve my musical interests. So I was like, Okay, I'm going to college, I'm not doing this for money, I'm not going to get a job in, you know, in the liberal arts or any related field. I'm gonna cook for the rest of my life. Because of course, I'm 18 I know everything. And I really did. I was a real jerky, 18 year old, I really, I really know everything. And so I went to Providence and I studied poetry with Forrest Gander. And it was incredible, and a wonderful educational experience, and work full time restaurant. So I applied to Al Forno like five times, and they kept on rejecting me, didn't even reply to me. But then, of course, I met somebody who knew somebody, and then I got the interview that we can get in. So if you want it's a pretty good story, it does relate to the overall newfangled story as well. But I'll let you guide that. Marc Gutman 12:12 Yeah, I'd love to hear about that in one second. So the before that I want to hear like why cooking like what do you love about it? Like, why was this the thing that that captivated you at such a young age? had made you so sure, because I also was a bit of a jerky, a 18 year old, but I had no idea. You know, I didn't know anything about anything. You know, I didn't know about the world. I didn't know what existed, you know, so I was very unsure with what I wanted to do. So I find it very fascinating that that you were very sure. And it sounds like you still like hold cooking really dear in your heart Even though you're not doing it right now professionally. So like, what is it? Like? Why is—what's so great about cooking? Was it mean to you? Mark O'Brien 12:54 Yeah, so um, yeah, there's an answer to that question. So I started Bentley's, about age 15. And at that time, two other things happened. My parents got divorced. My dad moved away. And that was, that was a big deal. And also, I had been very Catholic growing up. I'm gonna be really honest with you. I don't know how big your audiences here, but I'm going to be pretty open about some things here. I loved Catholicism. I was raised in a Catholic family. I had a bunch of priests, as uncles on both sides, you know, dyed in the wool, southern New England, Italian, Irish American Catholic, right. I wanted to be a priest, but I didn't. I would have liked to have been a priest. But I didn't want to because I want I knew I wanted a family. And so I was like, Oh, I wanna become a deacon. I grew up, I was an altar boy, I was the head of the CYO, and I was in. I was in and loved it. Until the priest who had been mentoring me for six years. Once my parents divorce, he tried to have a relationship with me. And that was the end of Catholicism for me and the end of Christianity for me. I'm starting to come back around a lot now. But what happened was it that door just closed in my mind as soon as he made that advance. And thank God, I was big enough to get the hell out of his room. But as soon as he made that advance a door instantly closed my mind. I don't even know it closed. I didn't know close. Well, years later, I look back but I just never I wanted nothing to do with any organized religion at all. From that second onward, holy involuntary mental response. And I kind of packed it away and didn't even process it at all. So those two things happened. Right when I started working at Bentley's and Richard Bentley. Mark, what is it about you? How'd you how'd you get me into this situation so quickly? Richard, was in a credibly strong presence. Very intense, very quiet. very intimidating. Honestly. I was terrified of him. I was absolutely terrified of him. The other thing that was going on at the same time is I moved into a place Public School and there were gangs. And I watched as one of my closest friends who I walked into the cafeteria with, got dragged away by about 15 guys and put in the hospital. So I was terrified. So my dad had moved away, my religion fell apart. I was truly afraid for my life each day I went to school. These are, these are tough times. But the Bentley's were this rock. And if Richard had been a car mechanic, I would have become a car mechanic, you know, it, I was gonna do whatever he did, because he, he was someone I could rely on. And he was an incredibly powerful, strong male figure. And he happened to cook. Right. And he may well have had a wonderful relationship, and that religion was very important to me, because a very stable, you know, semi parental relationship was going at the same time is that they had decided for various reasons that they weren't gonna have kids. And I showed up at a time in their life that where they were, they had a bit of a gap. And we just, you know, sometimes you have chemistry people that is special. And so what also happened with Richard, it was, he had heard about me talking Manuela about what's going on at school and how afraid I was. And this is it's, this is funny. So I would go to their house to do yard work for them outside of the work hour, so I'd go and like, clean the leaves because they were the restaurant 24 seven, so their yard was like in disarray, but they, they were actually exceptional gardeners, but there's lots of chores to get done. So I'd go do manual labor for them, basically, when I was at the restaurant, and one time after I did my chores, but my mom had to come pick me up yet. He said, Oh, come on back, I'm gonna show you something. And he started showing me some self defense movements. And I knew I knew he was like a martial art kind of guy, but I was I didn't really know much about it. And, and he starts showing me things like, okay, you know, for next week work on these three movements, as Wow, because it was, it was the real deal. It was clearly the real deal. I tried taking some Taekwondo classes for self defense, because I was scared. And it was all about like, points in belts in like getting awards. I'm like, No, no, I'm not here. This is not a sport for me, I need to protect myself. I don't need a point because I like I tap someone on the shoulder like, this is not what I need. But it was very clear from the very beginning, what Richard was doing was the real deal. There was a thing called Wu Shu. And, and so I did, though I practice those things. Then I started going with him to his teacher jayadev, about 45 minutes away. And so twice a week we're drive to take these martial arts classes with Richard and his teacher and a few other guys. And it was incredible. It gave me so much confidence, and it filled such a massive gap for me. And on the way back and forth would listen to tapes, like books on tape, literally, about the restaurant business, like kind of like collect self help books. This is like educational books about restaurants. And Alfredo was always the rest of their department was always offered as a software does that and in Alberta was clearly the gold standard. And Al Forno, it was a Providence and I grew up in Providence had some connections there. And so so the answer question is I got into cooking, because that's what Richard Manuela did. And that became my rock. And it clearly also resonated with me, and I'm pretty artistic. That's naturally wired that way. And cooking. Cooking does really speak to that. And I also love food. I love wine I love I love sensations. Right, I love like physical experience. And food has so much to do with that both know it, it touches all the senses in a really impactful way. And so it's like an endlessly interesting area of pursuit. And I got just an incredible foundation from Rich & Manuela. Marc Gutman 18:48 And for you, It sounds that food is comfort. It's love it's family. And you know, in that time that you shared and thank you for sharing that. It's exactly what you needed. And I can imagine now that that's probably a way that you express love and how you care about people with that, would that be accurate? Mark O'Brien 19:07 100% 100% I cook for people all the time. Now fewer people because you know, when I was many people in our pod because of COVID But yeah, that's 100% were my primary love languages. And that's how I grew up to that's my mom's love language. That's how she tells you She loves you. And like I grew up in that I didn't learn that from the Bentley's I learned for my mom, the Bentley's just allowed me to make it my own and to make it something could actually make a career out of so but yeah, 100% a love language. Marc Gutman 19:33 And so tell me about it and then have the name or is it al furneaux or foreknow foreknows the restaurant Mark O'Brien 19:38 Al Forno. Al space f o r n o. Marc Gutman 19:42 Al Forno. And so, you know, sitting sitting in the car listening to these tapes and hearing the name of this restaurant and setting you know your intention and your dream and you know I tell the story about how I was a skateboard kid and I used to look at Thrasher magazine and I used to just dream about Like how great and cool those kids were in Thrasher. And as soon as I had a chance to get out to California moved to Venice, and I realized it was all like, not cool. You know, like, those kids, those kids all had like, horrible upbringings. And they and at the time when I moved to Venice, it was awful. It's super cool now, but it was like scary. And I was like, wow, like I, the dream that I had in my head did not match the reality for you. In getting in to that restaurant. What was that, like? Did that that live up to the billing? Mark O'Brien 20:32 It was every single thing I'd ever imagined to be in so much more. It was incredible. Absolutely incredible and life changing. And it also made me decide that there was absolutely no way I was gonna make my living and food. Why is that? Well, so so I finally got enough or no, I, I met a guy who was very good friends with the guy who was like that the second command there. And so I got an interview with George drumond George Osborne was owned by George drumond. And Joanne clean husband, wife, team, and I can invert George and I did what I have patented patented as the monopoly patented but you know, air quotes patented as the Marco Brian, it's a move that cannot be resisted. Okay, and here's the move. So, I'm, I'm a senior in college. So I'm only 21. I've been hearing about all for now. And like idolizing photos that was 15, six years a big chunk of my life, right? More than a third of my life. Or so No, no, no, but ever. And finally, I'm sitting down with the owner, the founder of alpha widow, George, and he says, What do you want to do? And I said, I'll do anything, I will do absolutely anything. I just need to be in these doors. I'll do anything. I'll clean the floors of my hand. And that's what the job you need done. Honestly, I will do anything. And they said, All right, you start salads on Monday. So I started the salad, the garbage station, the salad station. And I was over the moon I mean, probably one of the top five happiest most my life honestly, when I found out that I was going to be working out for now I just felt so successful. It was so incredible. And I was gonna earn $7 an hour. And that was that was really bad pay even then, really, really, really, really basically minimum wage. But that didn't care about one bit because I was going to be enough for now. And my first week or second week on there, and I learned so much that that salad session it like so many of the recipes I hold today and my favorite last night I made a pseudo salad and it's that recipe. I learned so much about cooking. It just opened my entire world. I learned so much my mom I learned so much from the Bentley's when I went to all four No, it was that next exponential level up from that in terms, my learnings. And there was a weekend. And there's Guatemalan guy, Tony, who ran the kitchen downstairs and he was fierce, fierce, fierce, unfair, vicious, but amazing cook. And if he said a kind word to you, it like brighten your whole day, you know. And so in the middle of a service Saturday night, everyone's slammed, everyone's literally running around everywhere. And my back is to everybody else, because the soundstage is up front, but it's on Oh, it's an open floor plan. You can see the dining room, everything in the kitchen. And George comes in. And he nods to me he's like how's this how's the new guy doing? And Tony said he's the best we ever had. And I heard that it wasn't meant to hear that. But I heard it. And my confidence was went way. And that's because my training guy trained at Bentley's, like I learned the right way to do things from the beginning. And so I was able to, I was able to take on that next level for now. And within six months, my goal is to stay at a for over 10 years. That was my goal when I got there because I'm gonna stay here 10 years, I'm still in college, I'm gonna finish college, who cares about college, I've got my dream job. But let me get back to the college a mo, who cares? It wasn't really very fair. But I got my dream job. And within six months through all sorts of contortions of the universe, I was running the place. I achieved my 10 year goal in six months at all for now. And just about 18 months after that I was gone from not only a photo but from cooking, because I realized that but again, much like the priests thing, it could be a prison one family well can't get I can't cook someone a family because I saw if I'm if I'm going to do if I'm going to ever make any money at this, I have to own my own place. And if I own my own place, I'm gonna have to like live in that place for good and my kids wanted to live in that place. And that's just not what I want to do. I love cooking, but I don't love it enough to sacrifice everything else. And so I decided to leave. And so at that point, I've dealt with cooking, I already graduated college, I've got my specialized poetry degree and I have no idea what to do with my life and I was 23 and That was my first midlife crisis. I it was it was. I've unfortunately had a second sense. But But prior to having the second one, I said that I had my midlife crisis at 23 that was just part one. And that was a very, very, very scary time. I still worked in restaurants I worked as a bellhop, I was working all kinds of jobs. I could I could employ myself, but I, I didn't know what I wanted to do for a living. It's very scary. Marc Gutman 25:24 Was there like a specific moment or day where you had that realization that this isn't for me? Mark O'Brien 25:32 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there was actually. No one's ever asked me that question. There was this a waiter. His name was Tony to the Tony I think was Tony. And he was he was tough. He had a lot of attitude. He wasn't very nice. He he he liked start fights. And there was no not another Saturday night super busy tons of stuff going on. And he screwed up but didn't want to admit it script in order at a point a script or some big deal because everything's made from scratch. It's like everything's time to be in perfect use of everything else. It's like it's pretty high cuisine. And he came in and I just lost it. I completely let started screaming at them. And I lost it and it turned my screaming like turned into like, almost like a breakdown started crying. And in the scream is like his cry scream. And then I just laughed, I just left and went to the bathroom is like what the hell just happened? Thank thankfully, it's never happened before or since. But like it was a breaking point for me. And in the stress was insane. I would yell at people all the time. Everyone yelled that everybody was it was just a vicious atmosphere. And it doesn't have to be that way. There are plenty of reasons where it's not that way. And but you know, I worked by that point. I did work in a lot of restaurants. I knew the deal. I know what was going on. And I just realized, no, this is not my this is my thing. And it was hard because, you know, I learned how to make scrambled eggs from Julia Child. She candell for no and we open special for her on a Saturday morning for her 92nd birthday, which is one of her last birthdays. And she stood by the stove with me and taught me to mix reveled eggs and you know, George Harrison would come in and Wolfgang Puck, Emeril Lagasse, Steven Spielberg, I mean, this place was the place, it was really hard to leave that job and decide that but I had, I had seen enough where I realized this not my future. But it was great because I got to make that decision from a fully informed perspective. And I did what I came to do, I had a 10 year goal like it comes in six months, and I kicked but I worked so darn hard for them I, I really gave it my all, then realize and move on. Marc Gutman 27:38 This episode brought to you by Wildstory. Wait, isn't that your company? It is. And without the generous support of Wildstory, this show would not be possible. A brand isn't a logo or a tagline. or even your product or a brand is a person's gut feeling about a product service or company. It's what people say about you, when you're not in the room. Wild story helps progressive founders and savvy marketers build purpose driven brands that connect their business goals with the customers they want to serve. So that both the business and the customer needs are met. This results in crazy, happy, loyal customers that purchase again and again. And this is great for business. If that sounds like something you and your team might want to learn more about, reach out @ www.wildstory.com. And we'd be happy to tell you more. Now back to our show. So like how do you handle that when you realize the reality doesn't match the dream or the dream doesn't match the reality? Or that you know, I think a pattern in my life. And the reason I asked this it's a little bit selfish is that I dream big. And I hop right in and I think I'm so sure of what I want and then I kind of like oh, that dream doesn't really match reality and and I get a little heartbroken or a lot heartbroken and take it pretty hard. Like how did you take it? Like, how did you have it? I mean, it's one thing to know and have this blow up at work and be like, are I like, this is not for me. It's another to settle in with the reality of like, hey, the thing I've been chasing, I was wrong about Mark O'Brien 29:21 Yeah. No, it was hard. It was hard. And you asked, you know, did a foreigner match up for the dream and a photo did match up to the dream. It was everything I had imagined so much more it was it was the exact right thing for me to do. But yeah, the bigger picture dream of cooking for a living was not correct. And yeah, that was that was like I said very hard and very scary and incredibly and I was also like certain lose my hair at the time. And I was like oh my god, I'm ancient. I'm losing my hair. Yeah. And I was I was in a pretty bad relationship too. So it just was a pretty dark time but you know, that's how it goes. Right? So it gets I got 15 dark time but also many beautiful things came of it then 23 another another shade. Up in the rest of my life came from that. And so what happened was I was this probably a good point to get this transition. I had a buddy I grew up with a Danbury, Chris. And he was he was a geek out of the womb. He's just a natural born geek, you know, just loves computers got his first Macintosh in 1982 when he was seven years old when most adults didn't have a Macintosh very families dead he got he got a computer. And he was he was just all in from the very beginning. It's just who he is and always has been. And so we were living together downtown Providence and I was just working different restaurant jobs and I was a bellhop. That was the worst I've actually ever had being a bellhop was so demeaning. It was really, it was it can't be done well, but just the way people treat you is really, really rough. And there was no graduate college I had I was running out for no it which was there in a city ruled that city, I had the best job, you know, one of the best jobs in the city, in terms of a prestige perspective. And now I'm a bellhop outside this hotel is really difficult, or really, really difficult, but good, good character building and very motivating, like, Look, I'm not going to do this, I'm gonna figure my life out. And so I live with Chris, downtown, and he had an awesome job in Boston, you know, made a billion dollars from my perspective. And it was 1999. So the.com bubble was still still ever expanding. And he said to me one day is like, you know, you could make like, 40 grand a year tomorrow reading HTML, and doesn't know and I was like, That's ridiculous. I don't know anything. I literally knew nothing. Nothing about computer. I was the opposite of Chris. So whatever that is, I'm busy. No, you can't, and I can I can teach you. And so I said okay. That night, I fell asleep like this dream of $40,000 you're like, Oh, my God, wow, that would be on a match. I could buy the washer, dryer and dryer, you know, because I never been good enough for seven bucks an hour, never made money. And, and so we convinced the restaurant I was working for Empire to, to do the website, and there's a shorter and we did the website. But Chris did it. And I just kind of like literally sat over shoulder watched. And then we did it and went live. And it's a beautiful site. It was a great experience. I did learn a ton. And he's like, you know, that place that we walked by a Thomas tree, that New England place? Like you should just talk to them. And I was like, Yeah, they had a sign out. And there's a sign I'm looking at right now actually, on the street. And it turns out didn't say New England is that Newfangled, Newfangled web graphics. And so I went and I went to the website, and I spent like, an entire afternoon writing the longest contact form ever. And of course, I submitted it, and it didn't go through. So I had to do it again. And I wrote this just like this giant case for for, you know, speaking with the owner, and I said, it is a total the whole truth. I know nothing. I did this website. Here it is. And, and and I pulled the markup, Brian, I will do anything. And I had three jobs at the time, I was working 990 hours a week between the hotel and to restaurants. And I didn't want money. I just wanted to experience and I told them, this is more than I said to George, as I said, I'll work for free. You're not paying me. I just I just want to be there. And he had me in for an interview. And he hired me. He said, I'll give you 10 bucks an hour. And you can work as many hours as you want to right there hit the jackpot. So I went and I it was a joyous like victory lap it went to all through my jobs and quit. And I started that next Monday on June 15 at new fangled as, like an HTML guy to be to be. And that was that was the beginning of the beginning. Marc Gutman 33:39 Then do you know where the name came from originally? Mark O'Brien 33:43 Newfangled? Yes, yes. So Eric Holder, founded the company in 1995. with Steve Brock, I joined in 2000. And they both went to RISD at the Rhode Island School of Design a very prestigious art school, which, ironically, George drumond from Florida also went to, and he went to Disney and the company, the actual name of the company originally and 95 was newfangled and old fashioned graphics. You could hire new fangled and old fashioned graphics to either build your website or do woodblock printing grabbing for you. Those are the two services offered, actually, Marc Gutman 34:20 Still trying to figure out who they wanted to be at that time, apparently. Mark O'Brien 34:24 Like that's what Eric studied in college. So Eric, what turisti he was a he was a fine arts guy, right? And so he was actually extraordinary. I would engraving and presses from that there's a word for that, but I don't know the word is. But he got out here to get a job. And so he started working for an agency, and it was 9594. And the agencies like this web things happening, can you just do that web stuff for us? And so we got a book and learned it and figured out the basics and started building websites and realize, wow, this is like a big deal. I should make a company doing this. So he did. Marc Gutman 34:53 And so you're building websites, and I'm assuming that it's in the time when making a website was kind of hard, you know, like now, we have have all these templates and wicks and Squarespace and now web flows coming on and even WordPress is and it was so much easier than then than it was. And so what was that? Like? I mean, what was what was building websites when you started, like and how has it changed? Mark O'Brien 35:18 It was thrilling. It was, oh, gosh, it was so wonderful. It was just it was just fantastic. And it was very manual, right. And back then there was Dreamweaver. And so you could use Dreamweaver to kind of fake it like it was a wiziwig have etiquette editor, but newfangled, didn't touch that we pride ourselves on that, you know, we just it was all custom code, right? And we had a guy Mike boulais, who was more senior person and he created a CMS, new newfangled CMS, we call it webtop. At first and so it was super fancy. So I started learn how to program and I got into that and then I learned I do systems administration, and that was really exciting. But you know, the truth is, I didn't realize this, but I was never really good at any of them. What happened was, I decided to move North Carolina, and I actually met my, my ex wife, as a bellhop. When I went to the three months I was at about as a bellhop at the Biltmore in Providence, I met my wife, she stayed there for a weekend. And she was awesome. She kept asking, like, well, where should I go? Should I go here to go there and I kept like, is like pointing different directions, go go do that thing, go to this thing. And I'm just really impressed with how like courageous and and curious she was. And we traded emails, at the end of it, we kept in touch. And we ended up, you know, dating about three months later from afar, and decided to meet and we did that for a couple years, I decided to meet in the middle. She was in Mississippi at the time, and we decided to move North Carolina. And so I go to Eric, I said, Listen, we're North Carolina. But I'd love to stay with the company. There was any way we could do that. I figured you'd say no, because no one worked remotely. And not It was crazy at the time. And he said, All right, yeah, we can do that. But if you're gonna be in North Carolina, you've learned how to sell because, you know, because we got the time. It was a very local business. We were in Providence, were we there, Southern England company. And as and as like, he said, You should build a book of business out there. So sure, I'll try that I've never sold anything, but I'll try it. And so he started taking me in a sales calls with him, which are all in person, of course. And he and I both realized very quickly that Oh, that's what I'm good at. Forget about this coding stuff. Because no one had newfangled, like selling it all Eric hated it. Most people hate it. But I loved it. I loved every single thing about it. And so then I started selling for newfangled. And that's when everything really changed for me. And really, honestly, I'm not to take too much credit for this, but everything changed for newfangled as well. So I moved down here in the beginning of '03, and started building a book of business down here. And it was very successful in my first year selling was the best year we ever had in the history of the company. And my second year selling was, I think it was one and a half times that it was just two great years in a row that really changed the foundation of the company. And Eric may be president of the company at that point, which was amazing. At that point, I really started running it. And I realized that I like that even more than selling. And in 2008. Eric, Eric, Eric is a classic entrepreneur, entrepreneur, he kept coming to me like, Hey, we should do this, which is that he always had ideas. And I kept saying no, it's like, No, listen, we're not good at this thing. Yet, we've really got to dig deeper to this thing. We can't let ourselves get distracted. Let's stay the course on these few initiatives we got going on. And we can get to that idea, maybe in six or 12 months. And each time you know, he was a very balanced guy with very little ego and he would see the wisdom in it. And it's okay, you're right, that's fine. But he got sick of it. He got bored. And he didn't really have a place in newfangled anymore. And he didn't like that he understood what I was saying was right for newfangled, but it wasn't right for him. And so he decided to hire David Baker who introduced you and I, and he went for a consulting consulting. He went, he hired David to, to consult them on how to be a consultant. And David said, Okay, so you're gonna start this consulting business, but you've got a company, like, Who's gonna run the company, and music will go so well, Mark Mark does a lot of that is like, Well tell me what Mark does. And at the time, I was a salesperson, I was the only project manager we had, I was one of our three developers still, and I was our sysadmin all those things at the time. And he said, Okay, so here's the deal. After you get back from our visit here, you're going to go back to the office, you can do one of two things. You're either going to fire bark on the spot, or you're gonna sell the company, that those the only two options. He's got too much control. And so yeah, it was January of 2008. In was like the first or second business day of the year. And Eric in my office is like, Hey, can we go get a coffee? And I was like, sure. And he's like, so you want to buy it? And I was shocked. I was shocked. He said it's roughly 1.1 X of last year, which is the same as the year before. And I said, Yeah, what are percent I absolutely want to buy Gottschalk, my wife got to figure out how to hack it. possibly could. But intent wise, yes. So 100% lot that says it Yes, immediately. And it was 2008. And you might recall, 2008 was a rather interesting year in the economy, especially the fall. So we had a whole plan worked out, everything's good. And then the entire economy fell apart. And so we had like, it was it was amazing it, Eric and I both really trust each other and love each other implicitly, we both wanted was best for newfangled and each other individually. And it was almost impossible to figure out a purchase, it was almost impossible. And aboveboard purchase, I've checked out with the IRS and all the rest. But we did we figured it out. And I became CEO, January 1 2009, Eric lefs, do all kinds of other things. And I began the person buying the company. And that was that was that was that I did not answer your question, which is how was it? How was it being Baudrillard back then, but I, I got into a story, I think it's more interesting. Marc Gutman 40:51 I think so too. And, and, and I love that story. And, you know, like, and I could feel, you know, my heart dropped a bit when you, you know, you purchased in 2008. And the economy changes, and you have to be thinking like, Oh, my gosh, like what just happened, I kind of similar to what we're feeling now. And a lot of ways, a lot of businesses where there's just a lot of external pressure that's out of our control, but doesn't really change the plans we have for ourselves or for our companies. And so back then, and and you were servicing, from what I can tell local clients, kind of just like your run of the mill webshop. And please correct me if I've got that wrong, but at what point did you shift to become more focused on working directly with marketing, creative firms to help them do their marketing? Mark O'Brien 41:37 Well, we always had the agency angle, because again, Eric came from an agency from the very beginning. So we always positioned ourselves as partners for agencies. So basically, the deal was where the web guys, you're the creative people will do all your web work for your clients. For you. That was the deal, that that that was the promise from the very beginning from 95. On, and so on. So that element of the business never changed the working closely with, you know, small to mid size creative shops. But yeah, in 2000, it was local shops. And then no, three, when it came down here, well became local to locales. And, and at the same time, you know, Eric had started doing more on a national scene, David connected with them with Howe magazine. And that started some nice articles and things and, and we started really pushing hard on being more nationally recognized. Eric had started his own content strategy for newfangled, in 2000, running a newsletter. And we always took our own strategy very, very, very seriously. And that was really the heart of our growth in terms of our national reputation building. And, and then, around 2008, I started doing a lot of public speaking and got onto the conference scene and everything else. And then Chris Butler, newfangled balls got into it. So so we pretty rapidly became a a continental partner instead of just a local partner, which was great, that flip was essential, but it's because of our expertise. We were great at partner with agencies, that was our sales prop. And, and we had really good systems were great web developers, we had excellent systems. And so so yeah, it was always about the agency. What changed was, what we do today is that we we help the agencies market themselves, it's not at all about the client work, we almost never touch any client side things with the agency, it's all about the agency, which is kind of a funny thing we do we help marketers market. But it's, but it's wonderful. So in working with agencies, from 95, to 2015, we just learned so much about how they operate in their culture, and our culture sort of grew up to mimic theirs, like we became much more closely aligned with them as we work with more and more of them. And it was in 2015, that we realized we needed to completely change the business. And that realization was instigated by a combination of us adopting the attraction EOS methodology, and my involvement in the Strategic Coach program. Marc Gutman 43:57 I'm familiar with both of those. Very cool, very cool. And so how does an agency know that they need to be working with new fangled? Like, what are the telltale signs? Mark O'Brien 44:09 Well, yeah, let me let me explain a little bit about that transition. And then I can get to that question, because it'll be helpful background or So basically, what happened in 2015? Is those two systems, EOS and coach forced us to look at like, what can you actually be the best in the world that truly, and when you hear that question, you think it's a joke, and the best in the world at anything, but that's not true. If you're properly specialized, you absolutely can't be the best in the world at something. And this is coaching we give to our own clients as well as our agency partners. And we realize, you know, to your point, like well, this web stuff isn't the problem anymore. Like agencies are able to build their own website, that's not anissue. It's everything else that they struggle with. The content creation, the emails, the email, work, the CRM, the paid media, like all the all the other stuff, that's that's the problem. And so we decided to completely reinvent the company to go to where the pain points were. So we would coach them on the websites or the build the right business development website. But then we spent a lot of time working with them on the content. The two hardest things about marketing are one positioning, and two, documenting your expertise around that positioning, which is content creation and distribution. Those are the two hardest things about marketing. And so we decided to go really, really hard at the marca the content side specifically. And that built the modern modern-era of newfangled, where we focus on website coaching to make sure the websites the best business development tool possible, work with them on the content to make sure they're producing the right volume and specificity of content from the right audience all the time, constantly forevermore, making sure they're using email properly to nurture their prospects, the different stages in the buying cycle, in now paid media to generate, you know, near immediate and significant results, because we're driving the right kinds of people to these wonderful expertise, latent assets. So that's, that's, that's the thing, the four pillars of website content, email, paid media, now an agency to your question, an agency decides it's time to talk to us, when they're sick of the same, they're sick of the same that they've been living off referrals, and reputation of a few key people. Maybe they're used to going to trade shows, and just kind of, you know, rubbing elbows, things like that. And they're either sick of doing those things, or in Cobra times can't do those things. And they really want to take control their future, they want to change their future and, and be known for something different and, and be treated like an expert and command higher prices have more control on the buy sell relationship with their clients, that's when they come to us. But we're expensive, you know it, our price point is six to $7,000 a month, and we work in year long programs minimum, and so like it's a tall, tall, tall, tall ticket. And so unless you really want to change, you're not gonna hire us, you've got to really meet it, in order to work with us. And that works well for us because we end up with a roster full of amazing clients who have a deep, deep desire for real cultural change. And that's, that's what we do. Marc Gutman 47:02 That's, that's incredible. And what are you seeing now, especially during this time of the pandemic? Are you seeing your clients thrive? Or are you seeing them struggle? Or what's what's the outlook look like right now for for what you're seeing? Mark O'Brien 47:17 That's a great question. And I'm surprised at my response here. But we we do see, I think, a very specific and I'm not above, I can't find the right word we, the slice of the marketplace we have immediate access to is a fairly representative slice of a certain portion of the economy. Okay. And so we work with bitesize agencies throughout North America, and a little bit in other English speaking countries, Australia, UK, etc. And so, but in the US and Canada, in all brightens just specialists, they have to test specialists they get they're not specialist, they can't work with us, we can help them. And so they're working in very unique and Audrey's discreet industries themselves. And so it's a fair slice of the economy that we can see. And we're deep in the business, we really understand how things are going and their business. And most of our clients are doing pretty well, which is interesting. A few are having a hard time, but only a few and an equal amount, if not more are seeing exponential growth. They're thriving in this environment because it plays to their skills because people can't go out and do certain things anymore. And so I've been heartened, it's surprised to see that, but our average client is stable at least. And many of them for many of them, the targets they set in January for the year. They're still looking to hit this year, which is incredible. Marc Gutman 48:48 Wow, that is incredible. And that's a testament I think to what you're doing with your clients and super, super impressed with that. Mark O'Brien 48:56 So I actually stop you there. I can't take credit for that, Newfangled cannot take credit for that. That would be that'd be overstepping for sure. I mean these businesses are extraordinary businesses on their own. And they made a lot of brave decisions. And that's why the experts they are in the first place it's that we just shine a light on it that that's all we do. But it's it's if the truth weren't incredible and compelling. The light we shot on it would be useless. It's all about their work. Marc Gutman 49:19 That's very generous of you. And I get what you're saying. And so what does the future look like for newfangled? What do you think? What what's the future look like? You know, Mark O'Brien 49:29 I've got to say I'm so grateful for what I get to do every day. This is an incredible business. It's an incredible business full of wonderful people. And we do work for wonderful people. It shocks me that we get to work with a client base that is so smart, interesting, kind, and appreciative. As the ones we do, like I feel bad for our client cause they, they work with like lawyers and stuff. And you know, I've got a lot of good friends who are lawyers, but you know, the agency market as a as a focus and to get to work with the owners and leaders of these really smart, interesting, nimble, creative, and digital shops, you know, all over the world is just incredible. So I love what we do, we're having more impact on our clients than we've ever had significantly more impact on clients we've ever had. And so we've really found a nice rhythm in terms of our service offering, and the staff that we've got the expertise level in the staff, so it's part of us, you might be familiar, you said, 10 year, three year and one year goals. And so the three year goal is to really do what we're doing, we've hit a groove now that we've been trying to find for a long long, we're 25% we've been working on this for a while. And we've we've hit a groove that we've been trying to find for a long time. And and I intend to make sure we stay on it for for the foreseeable future. And, you know, measured growth even even probably throttled growth, I'm intentionally throttle growth just to make sure that we maintain a certain level of excellence inside the organization. So that's kind of a boring answer. But my first session at Strategic Coach, Blair Ends and I attended together, and the very first session of the 12 sessions we attended together in Vancouver was the headline was never sell, never retire. And Blair and I both absorb that and completely took it hook, line and sinker. And that's how we run both of our businesses never sell, never retire, make build your business to be something you love, and you love so much that you'd be crazy to step away from it. And and that's what's happened. That's really what's happened. So, so I'm not looking to get out, I'm not looking to, you know, hit some dollar mark, Mark, and exit. None of that I'm looking to continue to work with this amazing team, we've got an amazing class, we have to just deliver as much possible value as we can, while maintaining our core values. Marc Gutman 51:56 What's hard about running a firm like yours, What don't we know? What don't we see? Like, what is the average person missing? Mark O'Brien 52:03 I think I think the hardest thing about us about my role specifically, it sounds like I am, yeah. uncertainty and you gotta be okay with that. You have to be okay with that. And if you're not okay, with a certain level of risk and uncertainty kind of permeated throughout your entire life. because everything's on the line, it's not gonna work out very well for you. But if you are, then it's an option you owe it to yourself to very deeply consider. Marc Gutman 52:31 Well, Mark is we come to the end of our time here. I just have two more questions for you. And the first has been rattling around in my head ever since you you made mention of it. But what makes a great Caesar like, what's the secret? Okay, Mark O'Brien 52:44 Here we go. I'm ready to give this to you. Right now. There's a recipe. in a blender. any old Blender will do two egg yolks. Five close with peeled garlic as much black pepper as you can grind in there. About a half cup of parsley, flat leaf parsley leaves, tablespoon of Wilshere sauce, the juice of one full pretty big lemon. And that's it. Put that in a blender. Blend those things together. And then open up the top. There's no blenders have a little like thing you can open the top. Open that thing up with your hand over and it's going to splatter in very slowly pour olive oil into it until it thickens. It'll take you about a minute of slowly pouring it and you'll hear it'll sound like a liquid then all of a sudden they'll sound like a solid. And that's when it's done. That will be the best caesar dressing you've ever had in your life. Marc Gutman 53:34 No anchovies. Mark O'Brien 53:35 Oh my gosh. How did I forget the anchovies? Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, yes, of course. anchovies. Thank you Marc. That's what I get for rattling off top my head. Yeah, we want we want about five or six filets of Ortiz brand anchovies. Specifically, it has got to be Ortiz. Brandon, have you ever had an rpz anchovy? Marc Gutman 53:53 I don't think so. Mark O'Brien 53:56 And I'm about to find some go find some right now. They sell it at most wholefoods. You can buy them on Amazon. They're like 16 bucks for a one-ounce jar. They're expensive. But oh my gosh. And I'm not a like, straight anchovy guy at all never been. I can eat a jar of those in a sitting just by so they're amazing. They're they're incredible. They're like something other than Anchovy. Marc Gutman 54:16 The first recipe rattled off by memory on the Baby Got Backstory podcast. First of all, thank you for that. And second of all, it's a real takeaway. I'm gonna go make some Caesar. Mark O'Brien 54:26 Romaine lettuce, of course. Right. Marc Gutman 54:28 Yeah. And my last question for you. So if that 15-year-old Mark, who you were talking about, ran into you today? What do you think he'd say? Mark O'Brien 54:44 He'd be shocked across the board. It'd be really mad at me. And he'd be really happy for me. That's the best I got for you. Marc Gutman 54:58 And that is Mark O'Brien. From Newfangled I need to try the Marco Brian move that can't be resisted the all do anything. I've done that before in my career and I can attest, the great things happen. If you can just get into the middle of where they're happening. Once you're there, you at least have a chance to show what you got, and make your own way. And we'll link to all things Mark O'Brien in Newfangled in the show notes, so please go and check them out. Thank you again to Mark and the team at Newfangled. Yes, I'm trying to set a record and how many times I can say the word Newfangled, Newfangled, Newfangled. Well, that's the show. Until next time, make sure to visit our website www.wildstorm.com where you can subscribe to the show in iTunes, Stitcher or via RSS, so you'll never miss an episode. A lot big stories and I cannot lie, you other storytellers can't deny.

Kelly Reads some wonderful Neruda Poems translated by Forrest Gander

Por supuesto que habría frijoles tortillas habaneros y queso habría un tipo afilando cuchillos en una bicicleta fija instrumentos de viento y sólo por esta vez ningún mariachi los narcos estarían formados en fila con grilletes y el pelo al viento con un vórtice que les saldría del ombligo directo a la perdición no habría mujeres jóvenes violentadas ni chicos pobres hurgando en la basura al son del trombón oxidado andaríamos ágiles como la morena y furtivos hasta quedar borrachos y nos quemaríamos con un cigarrillo imprudente y recién entonces nuestros horribles dientes quedarían al descubierto y pararía un taxi amarillo para llevarnos de vuelta a un hotel equipado con duchas mil y una veces mejores que la que tenemos acá el agua ni más ni menos potable los pecados de nuestros antepasados transferibles a perpetuidad

In this vibrant conversation, poet and author Forrest Gander interviews Richard Powers about his acclaimed new novel The Overstory. Recorded during a live event co-presented by Emergence Magazine and Point Reyes Books, the two Pulitzer Prize-winning authors reflect on continuity, kinship, and proximity with the living world. Advocating a radical reimagining of the novel that moves away from the centering of human characters, Powers speaks of a new ethic that includes an understanding that there is no separate thing called us and no other separate thing called wilderness.

Three hive members buzz about poems and poets they've been reading, and what to make of it all. Tune in to hear a poem by our new U.S. Poet Laureate, Joy Harjo, from the most recent Pulitzer winner, Forrest Gander, and more.

photo by Ashwini Bhat Forrest Gander, a writer and translator with degrees in geology and literature, was born in the Mojave Desert, grew up in Virginia, and taught at Harvard and, for many years, Brown University. Among Gander’s most recent books are Be With, winner of the 2019 Pulitzer Prize, the novel The Trace, and Eiko & Koma. Gander’s recent translations include Alice Iris Red Horse: Poems by Gozo Yoshimasu and, with Patricio Ferrari, The Galloping Hour: French Poems of Alejandra Pizarnik. He has a history of collaborating with artists such as Ann Hamilton, Sally Mann, Graciela Iturbide, and Vic Chesnutt. The recipient of grants from the Library of Congress, the Guggenheim, Howard, Whiting and United States Artists Foundations, Gander lives in northern California. https://forrestgander.com/Books/Be-with-general.html https://www.ndbooks.com/book/the-trace/

Forrest Gander is a poet, novelist, and essayist based in Northern California, whose most recent book of poems, Be With, was awarded the 2019 Pulitzer Prize for poetry. In this conversation, Forrest and I discuss the life changing moment that made him forego a safe and stable career to pursue life as a poet, what he thinks makes a poem not just good, but great, and why poetry continues to be such a significant art form for allowing people to express themselves and process both the beauty and tragedy in life. Get access to the post-show on Patreon Say hello to Austin on Instagram or Facebook

Forrest Gander talks about love, loss, and the remarkable properties of lichen.

Craig Morgan Teicher joins Kevin Young to read and discuss Forrest Gander’s poem “Son” and his own poem, also titled “Son.” Teicher is a poet and critic whose collection "The Trembling Answers" received the 2018 Lenore Marshall Poetry Prize from the Academy of American Poets.  His latest book is "We Begin in Gladness: How Poets Progress."

“Forrest Gander’s life partner, the poet C.D. Wright, died suddenly a little more than two years ago, and this book is one result or record of the aftermath of that loss. In poems that are utterly naked and bereft, elegies, apologies, could-have-beens, Gander grieves and wonders about what’s left in his life. There is so […] The post Forrest Gander : Be With appeared first on Tin House.

Pura Lopez-Colomé's poetry, translated by Forrest Gander, envisions the body as a mystically rich reservoir of experience and language.

A conversation between Chilean poet Raúl Zurita and American poet Forrest Gander.

“Poets of the American South” with Claudia Emerson, Forrest Gander, Thomas Lux, Natasha Trethewey, C.D. Wright and Kevin Young

“Poets of the American South” with Claudia Emerson, Forrest Gander, Thomas Lux, Natasha Trethewey, C.D. Wright and Kevin Young

If you experience any technical difficulties with this video or would like to make an accessibility-related request, please send a message to digicomm@uchicago.edu. A lecture by Forrest Gander as part of the Poem Present series at The University of Chicago. Copyright 2004 The University of Chicago.

If you experience any technical difficulties with this video or would like to make an accessibility-related request, please send a message to digicomm@uchicago.edu.

If you experience any technical difficulties with this video or would like to make an accessibility-related request, please send a message to digicomm@uchicago.edu. Born in the Mojave Desert in Barstow, California, Forrest Gander grew up in Virginia and spent significant periods in San Francisco, Dolores Hidalgo (Mexico), and Eureka Springs, Arkansas before moving to Rhode Island in 1982. He holds degrees in both English literature and geology. The author of five books of poetry, including Torn Awake and Science & Steepleflower , both from New Directions, Gander also writes literary criticism (The Nation, Boston Book Review , The Providence Journal , et al ) and translates. His most recent translations are No Shelter: The Selected Poems of Pura López-Colomé (Graywolf Press) and, with Kent Johnson, Immanent Visitor: Selected Poems of Jaime Saenz (The University of California). Gander's poems appear in many literary magazines in the U.S. and abroad, and have been translated into Russian, Spanish, German, Portuguese, and Dutch. He has received two Gertrude Stein Awards for Innovative North American Poetry, fellowships from the National Endowment for the Arts, and awards from The Fund for Poetry and The Whiting Foundation. With poet C.D. Wright and their son, Brecht, Gander lives in Rhode Island where he co-edits the literary book press Lost Roads Publishers. As Professor of English and Comparative Literatures and Director of the Graduate Program in Literary Arts/Creative Writing at Brown University, he teaches courses on phenomenology and poetry, Asian-American poetry, and contemporary poetics.

Firefly under the Tongue: Selected Poems (New Directions)Coral Bracho, a major Mexican poet, writes ecstatic visionary poetry that has been translated into English for the first time. Our program marks another first—she has never before agreed to an interview...