Podcast appearances and mentions of Wallace Stevens

Från moln till Mozart, från kustlinjer till livets slut, återfinns fraktaler. Helena Granström funderar över verklighetens och konstens struktur. Lyssna på alla avsnitt i Sveriges Radio Play. ESSÄ: Detta är en text där skribenten reflekterar över ett ämne eller ett verk. Åsikter som uttrycks är skribentens egna.När en matematiker försöker sig på att skämta kan det låta såhär:Vad står bokstaven B för i Benoit B Mandelbrot? Rätt svar: Benoit B Mandelbrot. Huruvida denna vits någonsin åstadkommer några skrattsalvor ska jag låta vara osagt, men den som förstår poängen har i alla fall också förstått vad som kännetecknar fraktalerna, de matematiska objekt som utforskades ingående av just denne Mandelbrot: att de innehåller delen som är helheten som innehåller delen som är helheten, och så vidare.Därav skämtets poäng: Namnet Benoit B Mandelbrot inneslutet i namnet Benoit B Mandelbrot inneslutet i namnet Benoit B Mandelbrot i all oändlighet.Man kan tänka på ett blomkålshuvud, eller ännu hellre på en romanesco: Bryt loss en bukett, och du kommer i denna bukett att få se det stora huvudet i mindre format. Bryt loss en mindre bukett av denna bukett, och så ännu en mindre från denna: Samma sak upprepar sig, med allt mindre kålhuvuden som fortsätter att spira från allt mindre kålhuvuden. En ovanligt hänförande fraktal kallad Mandelbrotmängden upptäcktes av Mandelbrot själv, och karakteriseras av att en förhållandevis enkel formel ger upphov till en närmast outtömlig komplexitet: ett outgrundligt överflödande universum alstrat av en simpel instruktion. Inför denna rikedom är det svårt att hålla fast vid tanken på att matematiken bara skulle vara något som människan har hittat på: ”Mandelbrotmängden är”, som matematikern Roger Penrose påpekat, ”inte något som det mänskliga sinnet har uppfunnit; den upptäcktes.” Precis på samma sätt som Mount Everest, finns den bara där.Men fraktalerna existerar alltså inte enbart i den rena matematikens sfär, utan i högsta grad i verkligheten: Vi kan finna dem i kustlinjer och floddeltan, ormbunkar och åskviggar, blodkärl och neuroner, galaxkluster och bergskedjor och moln. I var och en av dessa strukturer ser man helheten upprepa sig i de mindre delarna: Den som betraktar en del av en bergig kust kan inte utifrån dess form avgöra om det är en liten sträcka som de ser på nära håll, eller en längre på stort avstånd; och varje liten del av ett moln skulle, betraktad för sig själv, lika gärna kunna vara det stora molnet självt. Till och med vår arvsmassa är arrangerad enligt denna struktur, inpassad i den trånga cellkärnan genom identiska vikningar som sker i mindre och mindre skala. Naturen är, med andra ord, i högsta grad fraktal – och år 2016 kom ett antal polska kärnfysiker lite oväntat också fram till slutsatsen att detsamma gäller litteraturen.Det är en häpnadsväckande upptäckt, även om den kanske är lite mindre fruktbar än vad en författare skulle önska – för hur gärna jag än vill skulle jag inte kunna låta varje stycke i denna essä utgöra en miniatyr av helheten – och varje mening en miniatyr av varje stycke – och varje ord en miniatyr av varje mening. Även om det hade varit outsägligt elegant. Den amerikanska författaren Paul Auster har visserligen gjort gällande att den första meningen i hans roman Mr Vertigo innehåller essensen av hela verket – men den fraktala strukturen i kända verk av författare som Virginia Woolf och Robert Bolano låter sig avtäckas först genom ingående statistisk analys. De litteraturintresserade polska fysikerna genomförde till exempel en kartläggning av fördelningen av meningarnas längd i de romaner de studerade: Vad som framträdde var en form av idealt fraktalmönster, särskilt skönjbart i den typ av litteratur som brukar betecknas som medvetandeström. Mest fraktal av alla – till och med multifraktal, det vill säga innehållande fraktaler av fraktaler – lär James Joyces svårgenomträngliga Finnegan's Wake vara. När det gäller lyrik har en ambitiös forskare med en besläktad metod lyckats med konststycket att finna Cantormängden, en annan känd fraktal, i form av förekomsten av ordet know i en dikt av den amerikanske poeten Wallace Stevens. Och även i musiken är det möjligt att finna fraktala strukturer – föga förvånande till exempel hos en kompositör som Johann Sebastian Bach, i vars tredje cellosvit en musicerande matematiker lyckats identifiera ett påfallande exakt exempel på samma Cantormängd.Bevisar det att konstnärerna, tidigare än matematikerna, har förmått att uppfatta tillvarons inre struktur? Att dessa skapande människor på ett omedvetet vis har anat formen hos de kärl som fyller människokroppens lungvävnad, hos de kärl i vilka dess blod flödar och hos det nätverk av nervceller som överhuvudtaget gör aningar – omedvetna eller inte – möjliga. Kanske är det denna djupt liggande intuition som Mandelbrot själv också anspelar på när han konstaterar att barn inte undrar ”över temperaturen hos en gas eller kollisioner mellan atomer, utan över formerna hos träd, moln och blixtar.” Undrar de, för att de i dessa former identifierar något märkvärdigt bekant, något som lånar sin form också åt deras eget inre?Men å andra sidan skulle författarnas benägenhet att skriva fram fraktaler kunna ges en mer prosaisk förklaring än så, för också det mänskliga livets yttre ramar låter oss ju stifta bekantskap med det fraktala: Dygnet kan förstås som en miniatyr av året som i sin tur kan framstå som en miniatyr av det mänskliga livsförloppet. Men inte bara det: Möjligen, skriver matematikern Michael Frame i den märkliga lilla skriften The Geometry of Grief, kan även sorgen sägas uppvisa en självlikhet på olika skalor, eftersom varje sorg i sin tur består av många små delsorger, varje förlust av en mängd olika möjligheter eller tillfällen eller erfarenheter som för alltid gått förlorade. Inuti sorgen över en älskad människas bortgång, oövervinnerlig i sin väldighet, finns sorgen över att aldrig mer få hålla hennes hand, över att aldrig mer få höra hennes röst, över att aldrig mer få vända sig till henne med sina tankar. Och det faktum att de många små sorgerna liknar den stora sorgen i art om än inte i storlek gör det möjligt, fortsätter Frame sitt resonemang, att öva sig: Att lära sig ett sätt att tackla den väldiga, till synes ohanterliga sorgen, genom att prövande och försiktigt ta sig an de mindre sorgerna, en i sänder. Och betraktat med den fraktala geometrins blick framstår på sätt och vis hela livet så, som en repetition i liten skala för de stora skeenden som hela tiden – och samtidigt, bara långsammare – utspelar sig: varje glädje en liten replik av den större glädjen, varje misslyckande och varje närmande och varje känslosvall en replik av sina större motsvarigheter av vilka de också utgör en del. Och förstås – detta är väl den fraktala livsstrukturens dystraste sida – utgör var och en av tillvarons otaliga förluster en sorts miniatyr av den slutliga förlust som väntar oss alla, den av livet självt.Hur man ska gaska upp sig efter en sådan nedslående insikt är inte helt klart – men kanske kan åtminstone matematikerna ibland oss finna lättnad i ännu ett exempel på humor för de få:–Hur gick det för matematikern som blev gammal och sjuk, dog han? –Nejdå. Han förlorade bara några av sina funktioner. Helena Granströmförfattare med bakgrund inom fysik och matematik

We need Emily Dickinson's startling originality today more than ever. This is why I sat down with Sharon Cameron, one of the greatest commentators on Dickinson's poetry, to explore some of Dickinson's poems in an extra-long podcast. “It's astonishing that after forty years of reading Dickinson, I am still ‘awed beyond my errand' by how Dickinson's poems let us experience something viscerally, at the edge of comprehension,” Cameron remarks in this conversation that forgoes clichés and favors critical acumen. By closely considering a few poems, Cameron explains how Dickinson speaks from placeless places and from within experiences outside of language, how her poems create wonder, and how her poems link without merging the mundane, the erotic, and other incommensurate dimensions of life. Sharon Cameron's book include: Lyric Time: Dickinson and the Limits of Genre; Choosing Not Choosing: Dickinson's Fascicles; and, most recently, The Likeness of Things Unlike: A Poetics of Incommensurability (Chicago University Press, 2024), on Emily Dickinson, Walt Whitman, Willa Cather, and Wallace Stevens. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

We need Emily Dickinson's startling originality today more than ever. This is why I sat down with Sharon Cameron, one of the greatest commentators on Dickinson's poetry, to explore some of Dickinson's poems in an extra-long podcast. “It's astonishing that after forty years of reading Dickinson, I am still ‘awed beyond my errand' by how Dickinson's poems let us experience something viscerally, at the edge of comprehension,” Cameron remarks in this conversation that forgoes clichés and favors critical acumen. By closely considering a few poems, Cameron explains how Dickinson speaks from placeless places and from within experiences outside of language, how her poems create wonder, and how her poems link without merging the mundane, the erotic, and other incommensurate dimensions of life. Sharon Cameron's book include: Lyric Time: Dickinson and the Limits of Genre; Choosing Not Choosing: Dickinson's Fascicles; and, most recently, The Likeness of Things Unlike: A Poetics of Incommensurability (Chicago University Press, 2024), on Emily Dickinson, Walt Whitman, Willa Cather, and Wallace Stevens. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literary-studies

We need Emily Dickinson's startling originality today more than ever. This is why I sat down with Sharon Cameron, one of the greatest commentators on Dickinson's poetry, to explore some of Dickinson's poems in an extra-long podcast. “It's astonishing that after forty years of reading Dickinson, I am still ‘awed beyond my errand' by how Dickinson's poems let us experience something viscerally, at the edge of comprehension,” Cameron remarks in this conversation that forgoes clichés and favors critical acumen. By closely considering a few poems, Cameron explains how Dickinson speaks from placeless places and from within experiences outside of language, how her poems create wonder, and how her poems link without merging the mundane, the erotic, and other incommensurate dimensions of life. Sharon Cameron's book include: Lyric Time: Dickinson and the Limits of Genre; Choosing Not Choosing: Dickinson's Fascicles; and, most recently, The Likeness of Things Unlike: A Poetics of Incommensurability (Chicago University Press, 2024), on Emily Dickinson, Walt Whitman, Willa Cather, and Wallace Stevens. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/poetry

Francesco Marangi"Angeli di sale"Polidoro Editorewww.alessandropolidoroeditore.itSiamo in un paese della costa ligure, tra gli ulivi e il mare. Pietro, maggiore di tre fratelli, torna nella sua casa natale per far visita al padre malato. Il suo ritorno apre una voragine che rimescola il tempo, lo inghiotte, lo dilata e rende i fratelli mere apparenze al cospetto del passato. Le voci dei protagonisti si confondono e si contraddicono e il paesaggio si deforma. Ogni cosa rimane trasfigurata dentro ricordi tragici che non si è in grado di raccontare con chiarezza, se non con la crudeltà di un'allucinazione dolorosa.Riemergono vecchi rancori, promesse, l'abbandono della madre, le violenze, l'amore di Pietro per Maria, la vicina di casa che insieme al fratello Enrico era loro compagna di giochi fin dall'infanzia. E poi la decisione di Pietro di andare lontano per non tornare più. Il vento, il mare, l'estate di ombre urlanti; ogni cosa è rumorosa. Nel frattempo, un segreto viperino progredisce con il peso mitologico di un'annunciata dannazione. Spetterà a Pietro – specie di addolorato e indemoniato Ulisse –, ricondurre tutto al principio risolutivo degli eventi.Francesco Marangi ci consegna un esordio sperimentale, di adulta poeticità, che si affaccia a Mentre morivo di William Faulkner, al romanzo oscuro La fornace di Thomas Bernhard, fino a  ricavare dalla mitologica poesia di Wallace Stevens  la delicatezza della carne senza mai divorarla.Francesco Marangi è nato a Genova nel 1998 e risiede a Varazze. Sta per conseguire la laurea triennale in Scrittura e Contemporary Humanities presso la Scuola Holden di Torino. Ha svolto vari lavori, nelle serre come aiuto bracciante e sulle spiagge come bagnino. Ha partecipato altre due volte al Premio Calvino con i romanzi Delirio in rosso e L'artista violento. Nel 2020 è arrivato nella cinquina finalista del Premio Raduga con il racconto Il bunker.Angeli di sale è il quarto titolo della collana InterzonaIL POSTO DELLE PAROLEascoltare fa pensarewww.ilpostodelleparole.itDiventa un supporter di questo podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/il-posto-delle-parole--1487855/support.

It seems like such a simple question, but how to read a poem, like poetic interpretation itself, can be answered in many different ways. But what's the best way to go about reading a poem? Katie turns to art criticism for a process that guides the episode to a deep reading of poems by: Billy Collins, Wallace Stevens, Robert Frost, and John Ashbury.At the table:Katie DozierTimothy GreenJoe BarcaBrian O'SullivanDick WestheimerNate Jacob

Send us a textWe get even more boggled than usual tackling three head-scratchers by American modernist Wallace Stevens (1879-1955).Domination of BlackThe Emperor of Ice Cream13 Ways of Looking at a Blackbird

The queens discuss gay icon status with Brenda Hillman--and then launch in to a revisit of several of her poems, including her fabulous "Male Nipples."Please Support Breaking Form!Review the show on Apple Podcasts here.Pretty Please.....Buy our books:     Aaron's STOP LYING is available from the Pitt Poetry Series.     James's ROMANTIC COMEDY is available from Four Way Books. You can see readings by Brenda Hillman here (one poem, ~4 min, 2020), here (20min, 2012), and here (2024, poetry and conversation with Jesse Nathan).For a review and discussion of Hillman's new book, Three Talks, check out this episode of The Only Property. (~30 min).(Re)read Wallace Stevens's "Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Blackbird"Learn more about Kathleen Fraser here. Discover more about Barbara Guest and her 9 collections of poetry here.If you'd like to know more about Kelsey Street Press's mission and history, it's a fascinating journey that you can start here.A basic introduction to gnosticism can be had here. Learn more about the Black Mountain Poets here.Read about Objectivist Poetics here.

Na entrevista que concede ao nosso Podcast, o poeta e professor Paulo Henriques Britto admite que nem sempre considerou que a paixão pela literatura pudesse se transformar em atividade profissional. Ocorre que desde os 20 anos de idade a atuação de Paulo Henriques Britto se divide entre a tradução, a academia e a produção poética. Como tradutor, ele é responsável por ter vertido para o português brasileiro autores como Philip Roth, Thomas Pynchon e Wallace Stevens. Na academia, é professor da PUC do Rio de Janeiro. Já no campo da produção poética é autor de livros como “Tarde”, “Macau” e “Mínima Lírica”. Para falar sobre o ofício do tradutor e do seu trabalho como escritor, o professor Paulo Henriques Britto é nosso convidado no episódio que começa logo a seguir.

Of all the great American Modernists, the poetry of Marianne Moore is perhaps the most idiosyncratic, even the most radical, of them all—no small feat in a group of friends and admirers that included Ezra Pound, T. S. Eliot, Wallace Stevens, William Carlos Williams, e. e. cummings, and HD. Moore's preferred form was a syllabic stanza bespoke to each poetic occasion, like the unique shell of each individual snail or paper nautilus, and often containing rhyme. In these stanzas, Moore hid behind her virtuosic performance of deflection and difficulty and, of course, revealed herself in it, much as one of her pet-subjects, the exotic animal-portrait, contained a self-portrait at its heart. In her poem on the jerboa, Moore contrasts the desert mouse's decorousness with the decadence of empire, and in so doing, distinguishes her ideal of true artistry—a vigorous, humble, and ultimately liberated response to one's natural and formal limitations—with a false art which oppresses the natural in service of the powerful. Wes & Erin discuss Marianne Moore's poem, “The Jerboa,” first published in 1932, and whether power and wealth might paradoxically prove less abundant than the strictures of form and necessity.

Warwick poet and musician D.K. Mckenzie presents excerpts from his spoken word and music podcast, The Poe Underground, in a Warwick Radio exclusive. In this episode, hear jazz-inspired, original music and the poems Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Blackbird by Wallace Stevens, Songs from the Dusk by Russell W. Davenport, and Infinity by D.K. Mckenzie. Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Blackbird I Among twenty snowy mountains, The only moving thing Was the eye of the blackbird. II I was of three minds, Like a tree In which there are three blackbirds. III The blackbird whirled in the autumn winds. It was a small part of the pantomime. IV A man and a woman Are one. A man and a woman and a blackbird Are one. V I do not know which to prefer, The beauty of inflections Or the beauty of innuendoes, The blackbird whistling Or just after. VI Icicles filled the long window With barbaric glass. The shadow of the blackbird Crossed it, to and fro. The mood Traced in the shadow An indecipherable cause. VII O thin men of Haddam, Why do you imagine golden birds? Do you not see how the blackbird Walks around the feet Of the women about you? VIII I know noble accents And lucid, inescapable rhythms; But I know, too, That the blackbird is involved In what I know. IX When the blackbird flew out of sight, It marked the edge Of one of many circles. X At the sight of blackbirds Flying in a green light, Even the bawds of euphony Would cry out sharply. XI He rode over Connecticut In a glass coach. Once, a fear pierced him, In that he mistook The shadow of his equipage For blackbirds. XII The river is moving. The blackbird must be flying. XIII It was evening all afternoon. It was snowing And it was going to snow. The blackbird sat In the cedar-limbs. Songs from the Dusk (Movement for an Imaginary Violin) Take me there, take me there—far, far within The scarlet cloisters of the clouds, hung over This glassy water-terrace rimmed with clover, O my imaginary violin! It cannot hush, it cannot hush—as thin, As wild, as sweet as miracle! Mad lover, My heart must almost perish to discover What ecstasy of wine we are—what kin. Yet you grow slow aloft, and falter—fall. I scarcely hear, I scarcely hear at all Those drops of tone. Warblers and swallows call Across the water, drawing shore to shore; The woodpecker; the dusk. Oh, play one more— One more—one more—one more note! That is all. Infinity Death pulls me one way You tug me the other Your giant eyes dance Bust forth with black hole gravity Atomic fusion is your smile with a voice of combustion There you go with the laughter of a thousand earthquakes Rattling the ground beneath your feet Never exhausting your gate of storms and fire Your kiss however is the thing The most powerful thing that topples the world And keeps the oceans from flowing The poison of time is postponed and so is death The universe is on hold when we're together We are immortal dancing, spinning, embracing Through the constants of infinity and true love Visit The Poe Underground ⁠⁠website⁠⁠. Tune in to The Poe Underground ⁠⁠podcast⁠⁠.

Read by Terry Casburn Production and Sound Design by Kevin Seaman

Daan Doesborgh gaat in gesprek met Willem Jan Otten over Wallace Stevens, het verschil tussen vertalen en toe-eigenen, en of wij de Orpheusmythe hebben verzonnen of andersom.

Today we're diving into how shifting from narratives to perspectives can enhance self-improvement, mindfulness, and mental health. In a world filled with stories, narratives help us make sense of chaos. But what if these stories are holding us back? Humans are natural storytellers, but narratives can sometimes restrict our thinking and offer a false sense of order. Today, we'll uncover how embracing perspectives over rigid narratives can lead to greater personal growth, mindfulness, and mental well-being.  Narratives and Their Impact on Mental Health Narratives provide structure, turning mundane events into meaningful stories. Philosophers  argue that our lives inherently have a narrative structure, crucial for understanding our actions. Yet, these narratives can limit our freedom and hinder mental health by simplifying the complexity of life. Narrative therapy addresses these issues by helping people construct new, more helpful stories about their lives. However, it often merely swaps one narrative for another. To truly enhance mental well-being, we must explore possibilities beyond storytelling. Mindfulness and Perspectives Mindfulness encourages us to live in the present, embracing each moment without judgment. Living in the now. By shifting focus from narratives (some of which may be deliberately false) to perspectives, we engage the world more mindfully, similar to how poetry captures non-linear experiences. Perspectives, shaped by beliefs and values, allow for a flexible understanding of our lives, and the lives of others. This is imperative, especially now. Wallace Stevens, ' "Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Blackbird" illustrates how different perspectives offer varied insights into the 'same reality'. Embracing mindfulness through perspectives helps us find significance in the present, enhancing mental health, self-awareness as well as awareness of others. Self-Improvement and Personal Growth Self-improvement thrives on personal growth and a willingness to challenge limiting narratives. By adopting new perspectives, we open ourselves to diverse experiences, fostering resilience and adaptability. This shift not only promotes authentic existence but also aligns with the core of self-improvement—embracing change and personal evolution. Understanding the role of perspectives empowers us to redefine our narratives, unlocking new avenues for personal growth and mental well-being.  By focusing on perspectives, we expand our potential and embrace the unpredictability and richness of life.  In shifting from narratives to perspectives, we embrace mindfulness rather than mind numbness and explore the perspectives that enhance personal growth and mental well-being. Thank you for tuning in. If you found this episode insightful, please subscribe and share it with others.  xoxo          

When we think of wonder or beauty, we might be inclined to think in terms of an external appearance, a scene of nature or an attractive person. But what if wonder is something that grows from the inside out? What if wonder is way of seeing? And what if wonder is an interior force, one that begins in the hidden recesses of our perceptions? Today, on the show I'm talking with Oregon based, poet, writer and critic, Paul J Pastor. Paul serves HarperCollins as senior acquisitions editor for their Zondervan imprint, and also serves as a contributing editor for Ekstasis magazine. He's the author of several books, including Bower Lodge: Poems, and two forthcoming titles: The Locust Years and The Fire Cantos. In our conversation, Paul and I discuss the importance of learning to see as a means of engaging wonder. Drawing from the work of William Blake, Flannery O' Connor and stories from the Gospels, this episode takes us on a journey into our perceptions and invites us to reconsider beauty as more than an aesthetic experience. Topics: Perception, beauty, wonder as an interior experience.Art Forms: Literature, PhilosophyName Drops: William Blake, Flannery O'Connor, Herbert, Donne, Horace, Sappho, Wallace Stevens, Dante, Byung Chul HanMusic: Some Were At SeaTHE BREATH AND THE CLAY WRITER'S RETREAT Oct. 25-27 in Moravian Falls, NC. APPLY NOW.Join our creative collectiveGive a one-time donation

Philosopher, Simone Weil said that attentiveness is the heart of prayer. In this episode, we discuss postures of attentiveness as gateways to wonder.Guests: Dr. Mary McCampbell is an author, educator, and speaker whose publications span the worlds of literature, film, and popular music. She is the author of Imagining Our Neighbors as Ourselves: How Art Shapes Empathy.Dr. Joe Kickasola is a Professor of Film and Digital Media at Baylor University. He is the author of The Films of Krzysztof Kieślowski: The Liminal Image, and has published in numerous academic venues and anthologies, including Film Quarterly, The Quarterly Review of Film and Video, and The Routledge Companion to Philosophy and Film. _____Topics: Attentiveness, cynicism, receptivity, humility, consumerism, experiencing wonder during times of upheaval, Art Forms: filmmaking, photography, literature. Name Drops: Douglas Copeland, G.K. Chesterton, Jim Jarmusch, Terrence Malick, T.S.Eliot, Wallace Stevens, Andrei Tarkovsky, Andrey Rublev, Rothko, Stan Brakhage, Virginia Wolfe, David Foster Wallace, Movie References: Patterson, Tree of Life, Zabriskie Point Support The Podcast! We need your help to continue our work of advocating for the arts.Join our creative collectiveGive a one-time donation

This Episode also includes an E.W. Essay titled "Learjets" as well as an Uncle Cesare Essay titled "Bernie & Lil", and an excerpt from a piece by Wallace Stevens called "Extracts From Addresses To The Academy Of Fine Ideas." Our music this go round is provided by these wonderful artists: Thelonious Monk, Bob Dorough, Blossom Dearie, Andra Day, Thao & The Get Down Stay Down, Louis Armstrong, Branford Marsalis and Terence Blanchard. Photo of John by Trudy Gerlach. Commercial Free, Small Batch Radio Crafted in the West Mountains of Northeastern Pennsylvania... Heard All Over The World. Tell Your Friends and Neighbors.

READ TRANSCRIPT OF EPISODE -Dearest friends,We are so sorry to have to share the hardest news with you - something we could never imagine having to say...Our beautiful friend and the founder, co-host and guiding light of The Poetry Exchange, Fiona Bennett, has died after a short illness.We are so sorry this will come as a huge shock to you all.It is hard to begin to express the enormous sense of loss, grief and endless love we are feeling for our most beloved Fiona. We know so many of you will be feeling this with us. FIona touched so many people's lives in such a profound way....whether through you listening in to her voice every month on the podcast, or through meeting and knowing Fiona in person.As Michael puts it in the introduction to this episode: "Fiona was a real one off. She really was one of the very best."This episode is a converastion Fiona really wanted us to share. It is an exchange with the wondrous David Lewsey about the poem that has been a friend to him: 'The World as Meditation' by Wallace Stevens. We recorded the conversation just a few months ago, and it is wonderful to hear David share all his passion for this poem and for poetry with Fiona and Michael.We would love to hear from you with any messages, feelings and reflections about Fiona, and you can get in touch with us on hello@thepoetryexchange.co.uk. We are going to be taking some time to process and face the loss of our beautiful friend, and to think about ways of lifting up and honouring her extraordinary life and legacy.For now, we are incredibly grateful for all your friendship, and we are sending so much love to you all.Michael, John and The Poetry Exchange xx Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Recorded by Academy of American Poets staff for Poem-a-Day, a series produced by the Academy of American Poets. Published on August 18, 2024. www.poets.org

In this episode, I talk with author and novelist about his recent hybrid memoir and cultural exploration, Always Crashing in the Same Car. We discuss his fascination with figures who faced creative crises in Hollywood, from F. Scott Fitzgerald, filmmaker Hal Ashby or musician Warren Zevon to more overlooked but similarly brilliant figures like Carole Eastman, the screenwriter of the 1970s classic Five Easy Pieces.We also explore the realities of growing up in LA, including being “celebrity-adjacent.” That's perhaps best illustrated by the time Marlon Brando left an incredible monologue in the form of a voicemail. We do a deep dive into the attraction of hybrid memoir for fiction writer, Matthew's approach to research, and whether it's possible any longer to be a middle-class creative in Hollywood.--------------------------“All of those kind of impulses fused in me, and eventually, and I sort of realized, like, oh, this is what I want to write. I want to write a book that's a memoir that isn't about me, or a memoir that's only kind of, you know, partly about me.”--------------------------Key Takeaways* Always Crashing In the Same Car pays homage to figures who've faced both genius and marginalization in Hollywood, including Thomas McGuane, Renata Adler, Carole Eastman, Eleanor Perry, Hal Ashby, Michael Cimino, Warren Zevon & more. The book is about “those who failed, faltered, and whose triumphs are punctuated by flops...”* Matthew shares his fascination with Carol Eastman, best known for Five Easy Pieces. He was deeply touched by her prose writings, comparing her to poets like Hart Crane and Wallace Stevens.* The book and the interview also delves more deeply into women's contributions to Hollywood, focusing on other overlooked talents like Eleanor Perry and Elaine May. Matthew reflects on his mother, a one-time screenwriter, and how her generation had less opportunity to develop their skills.* Why a hybrid memoir? Matthew was reading, and inspired by, writers like Hilton Als, Heidi Julavits, and Olivia Laing. He wanted to create a narrative that wasn't limited to—or rather moved beyond—the self, weaving together cultural criticism about Hollywood and creative crises.* We talk a lot about voice, which Matthew says is crucial for him to discover early on. “Once I can locate the voice for any piece of writing... I have it in the pocket,” he says. The narrator of this book blends personal reflections with a noir quality, he says.* Matthew sees himself as a novelist at heart. He considers the narrative tools of a novelist indispensable, even when writing memoirs and cultural critiques: “I am fundamentally a novelist….I think that's part of being a fiction writer or novelist is, you know, anything that you write is a kind of criticism in code. You're always responding to other texts.”* Matthew begins by explaining his unique research style: "I'm kind of ravenous and a little deranged about it…” His research process involves intuitive dives, like a two-day blitz through Carol Eastman's archives.* The discussion also touched on Matthew's upbringing with a mom who was a one-time screenwriter and who crossed the picket line during one writer's strike, and his father, who had modest beginnings but went on to become a famous Hollywood “superagent” representing Marlon Brando, Morgan Freeman, Helen Mirren & many others.* At the same time, Matthew explores misconceptions around Hollywood glitz, addressing the middle-class reality of many involved in the film industry. For a long-time, Hollywood could support such middle-class creatives, Matthew contends, something that is no longer really possible.* Addressing the evolution of the entertainment industry, Matthew notes the shift towards debt servicing, influenced by corporate acquisitions. This financial pragmatism often overrides the creative impulse, squeezing the middle class out.* Another takeaway? The creative world, especially in Hollywood, is fraught with periods of drift and struggle. In one sense, Always Crashing In the Same Car is a love letter to that state of things.--------------------------"I still kind of think of [Always Crashing…] as being secretly a novel. Not because it's full of made up s**t…but because I think sometimes our idea of what a novel is is pretty limited. You know, there's no reason why a novel can't be, like, 98% fact."--------------------------About Matthew SpecktorMatthew Specktor's books include the novels That Summertime Sound and American Dream Machine, which was long-listed for the Folio Prize; the memoir-in-criticism Always Crashing in The Same Car: On Art, Crisis, and Los Angeles, California, and The Golden Hour, forthcoming from Ecco Press. Born in Los Angeles, he received his MFA in Creative Writing from Warren Wilson College in 2009. His writing has appeared in the New York Times, GQ, The Paris Review, Tin House, Black Clock, and numerous other periodicals and anthologies. He is a founding editor of the Los Angles Review of Books.Resources:Books by Matthew Specktor:* Always Crashing in the Same Car: On Art, Crisis, and Los Angeles, California* American Dream Machine* That Summertime Sound* Slow Days, Fast Company by Eve Babitz, introduction by Matthew SpecktorReferenced on this episode:* The Women, by Hilton Als* Low, by David Bowie* The Great Gatsby, This Side of Paradise, The Last Tycoon, The Pat Hobby Stories, and The Crack-Up, by F. Scott Fitzgerald* F. Scott Fitzgerald on Writing, edited by Larry W. Phillips* The Folded Clock: A Diary, by Heidi Julavits* The Lonely City, by Olivia Laing* 300 Arguments, by Sarah Manguso* “Bombast: Carole Eastman,” by Nick Pinkerton* “The Life and Death of Hollywood,” by Daniel Bessner, Harper's, May 2024.CreditsThis episode was produced by Magpie Audio Productions. Theme music  is "The Stone Mansion" by BlueDot Productions. Get full access to The Book I Want to Write at bookiwanttowrite.substack.com/subscribe

Today's poem is a shape poem dedicated to chefs, but (surprise?) it might be about more than cooking.John Hollander, one of contemporary poetry's foremost poets, editors, and anthologists, grew up in New York City. He studied at Columbia University and Indiana University, and he was a Junior Fellow of the Society of Fellows of Harvard University. Hollander received numerous awards and fellowships, including the Levinson Prize, a MacArthur Foundation grant, and the poet laureateship of Connecticut. He served as a Chancellor of the Academy of American Poets, and he taught at Hunter College, Connecticut College, and Yale University, where he was the Sterling Professor emeritus of English.Over the course of an astonishing career, Hollander influenced generations of poets and thinkers with his critical work, his anthologies and his poetry. In the words of J.D. McClatchy, Hollander was “a formidable presence in American literary life.” Hollander's eminence as a scholar and critic was in some ways greater than his reputation as a poet. His groundbreaking introduction to form and prosody Rhyme's Reason (1981), as well as his work as an anthologist, has ensured him a place as one of the 20th-century's great, original literary critics. Hollander's critical writing is known for its extreme erudition and graceful touch. Hollander's poetry possesses many of the same qualities, though the wide range of allusion and technical virtuosity can make it seem “difficult” to a general readership.Hollander's first poetry collection, A Crackling of Thorns (1958) won the prestigious Yale Series of Younger Poets Awards, judged by W.H. Auden. And in fact James K. Robinson in the Southern Review found that Hollander's “early poetry resembles Auden's in its wit, its learned allusiveness, its prosodic mastery.” Hollander's technique continued to develop through later books like Visions from the Ramble (1965) and The Night Mirror (1971). Broader in range and scope than his previous work, Hollander's Tales Told of the Fathers (1975) and Spectral Emanations (1978) heralded his arrival as a major force in contemporary poetry. Reviewing Spectral Emanations for the New Republic, Harold Bloom reflected on his changing impressions of the poet's work over the first 20 years of his career: “I read [A Crackling of Thorns] … soon after I first met the poet, and was rather more impressed by the man than by the book. It has taken 20 years for the emotional complexity, spiritual anguish, and intellectual and moral power of the man to become the book. The enormous mastery of verse was there from the start, and is there still … But there seemed almost always to be more knowledge and insight within Hollander than the verse could accommodate.” Bloom found in Spectral Emanations “another poet as vital and accomplished as [A.R.] Ammons, [James] Merrill, [W.S.] Merwin, [John] Ashbery, James Wright, an immense augmentation to what is clearly a group of major poets.”Shortly after Spectral Emanations, Hollander published Blue Wine and Other Poems (1979), a volume which a number of critics have identified as an important milestone in Hollander's life and career. Reviewing the work for the New Leader, Phoebe Pettingell remarked, “I would guess from the evidence of Blue Wine that John Hollander is now at the crossroads of his own midlife journey, picking out a new direction to follow.” Hollander's new direction proved to be incredibly fruitful: his next books were unqualified successes. Powers of Thirteen (1983) won the Bollingen Prize from Yale University and In Time and Place (1986) was highly praised for its blend of verse and prose. In the Times Literary Supplement, Jay Parini believed “an elegiac tone dominates this book, which begins with a sequence of 34 poems in the In Memoriam stanza. These interconnecting lyrics are exquisite and moving, superior to almost anything else Hollander has ever written.” Parini described the book as “a landmark in contemporary poetry.” McClatchy held up In Time and Place as evidence that Hollander is “part conjurer and part philosopher, one of our language's true mythographers and one of its very best poets.”Hollander continued to publish challenging, technically stunning verse throughout the 1980s and '90s. His Selected Poetry (1993) was released simultaneously with Tesserae (1993); Figurehead and Other Poems (1999) came a few years later. “The work collected in [Tesserae and Other Poems and Selected Poetry] makes clear that John Hollander is a considerable poet,” New Republic reviewer Vernon Shetley remarked, “but it may leave readers wondering still, thirty-five years after his first book … exactly what kind of poet Hollander is.” Shetley recognized the sheer variety of Hollander's work, but also noted the peculiar absence of anything like a personality, “as if the poet had taken to heart, much more fully than its author, Eliot's dictum that poetry should embody ‘emotion which has its life in the poem and not in the history of the poet.'” Another frequent charge leveled against Hollander's work is that it is “philosophical verse.” Reviewing A Draft of Light (2008) for Jacket Magazine, Alex Lewis argued that instead of writing “philosophizing verse,” Hollander actually “borrows from philosophy a language and a way of thought. Hollander's poems are frequently meta-poems that create further meaning out of their own self-interrogations, out of their own reflexivity.” As always, the poems are underpinned by an enormous amount of learning and incredible technical expertise and require “a good deal of time and thought to unravel,” Lewis admitted. But the rewards are great: “the book deepens every time that I read it,” Lewis wrote, adding that Hollander's later years have given his work grandeur akin to Thomas Hardy and Wallace Stevens.Hollander's work as a critic and anthologist has been widely praised from the start. As editor, he has worked on volumes of poets as diverse as Ben Jonson and Dante Gabriel Rossetti; his anthologist's credentials are impeccable. He was widely praised for the expansive American Poetry: The Nineteenth Century (1994), two volumes of verse including ballads, sonnets, epic poetry, and even folk songs. Herbert Mitgang of the New York Times praised the range of poets and authors included in the anthology: “Mr. Hollander has a large vision at work in these highly original volumes of verse. Without passing critical judgment, he allows the reader to savor not only the geniuses but also the second-rank writers of the era.” Hollander also worked on the companion volume, American Poetry: The Twentieth Century (2000) with fellow poets and scholars Robert Hass, Carolyn Kizer, Nathaniel Mackey, and Marjorie Perloff.Hollander's prose and criticism has been read and absorbed by generations of readers and writers. Perhaps his most lasting work is Rhyme's Reason. In an interview with Paul Devlin of St. John's University, Hollander described the impetus behind the volume: “Thinking of my own students, and of how there was no such guide to the varieties of verse in English to which I could send them and that would help teach them to notice things about the examples presented—to see how the particular stanza or rhythmic scheme or whatever was being used by the particular words of the particular poem, for example—I got to work and with a speed which now alarms me produced a manuscript for the first edition of the book. I've never had more immediate fun writing a book.” Hollander's other works of criticism include The Work of Poetry (1993), The Poetry of Everyday Life (1997), and Poetry and Music (2003).Hollander died on August 17, 2013 in Branford, Connecticut.-bio via Poetry Foundation Get full access to The Daily Poem Podcast at dailypoempod.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to the Instant Trivia podcast episode 1255, where we ask the best trivia on the Internet. Round 1. Category: Oh Ph. With Ph in quotes 1: For the record, Thomas Edison invented the first practical one of these in 1877. the phonograph. 2: The mortar and pestle is a symbol of this profession. a pharmacist. 3: In days gone by this game bird was popularly served "under glass". a pheasant. 4: A finger bone, or a group of heavily armed infantry with overlapping weapons. a phalanx. 5: In mythology, after Hippolytus rejects her, this wife of Theseus hangs herself. Phaedra. Round 2. Category: Wallaces 1: Lurleen Burns married this man when she was 16 and later succeeded him as governor of Alabama. George Wallace. 2: Before "Braveheart" his story was told in the 15th century by Henry the Minstrel. William Wallace. 3: (Hi, I'm Wallace Langham) Mike's son, this broadcaster became NBC News White House Correspondent in 1982. Chris Wallace. 4: He and his wife Lila launched Reader's Digest in 1922 with a press run of 5,000. DeWitt Wallace. 5: "The Emperor of Ice-Cream" is a famous work by this poet whose day job was VP of an insurance company. Wallace Stevens. Round 3. Category: Chicago 1: Remove 1 letter from the name of a plaza in Dallas and you get this plaza in Chicago's Loop. Daley Plaza. 2: Nearly 250,000 gathered to see Obama's 2008 victory speech in Chicago's front yard, this park named for another president. Grant Park. 3: Scandalous highlight of the 1893 Columbian Exposition and title of the following:"She had a ruby on her tummy and / A diamond big as Texas on her toe, whoa whoa / She let her hair down and / She did the hoochie coochie real slow, whoa whoa". "Little Egypt". 4: Untouchable Tours visits such sanguineous spots as the site of this February 1929 event. the Valentine's Day Massacre. 5: Some attribute this nickname of the city to its proud, boasting citizens, not its breeziness. "The Windy City". Round 4. Category: 20Th Century Thinkers 1: Called the Russian Revolution's most brilliant thinker, he lost a power struggle with Stalin and was killed in Mexico. Trotsky. 2: This New Yorker wondered, "Can we actually 'know' the universe?... It's hard enough finding your way around Chinatown". Woody Allen. 3: The works of this woman on the left include 1965's "Normality and Pathology in Childhood". Anna Freud. 4: This 3-named economist was an architect of the International Monetary Fund and part of the Bloomsbury Group. Keynes. 5: This "in the machine" was Gilbert Ryle's term for the idea that the mind is apart from the body yet controls it. ghost in the machine. Round 5. Category: Written In Cyrillic 1: Some Tajik speakers call their language Zaboni Forsi, meaning this national tongue. Persian. 2: This carnivore associated with Russia is medved in Russian. a bear. 3: One way to say hello in Serbian is this, borrowed from Italian. ciao. 4: In Ukrainian, this winter month when Russia invaded in 2022 is Lyutyy, "cruel". February. 5: Belarussian took words like "pan", meaning "sir" or "mister" from this language spoken due west of Belarus. Polish. Thanks for listening! Come back tomorrow for more exciting trivia!Special thanks to https://blog.feedspot.com/trivia_podcasts/ AI Voices used

Just when you thought you were out, The Daily Poem pulls you back in–to poems about movies. Today's charming and earnest poem imitates the medium it describes (film) by swapping memorable images and sensations for linear propositions. Happy reading.Amy Clampitt was born and raised in New Providence, Iowa. She studied first at Grinnell College in Grinnell, Iowa, and later at Columbia University and the New School for Social Research in New York City. Throughout the 1940s and 1950s, Clampitt held various jobs at publishers and organizations such as Oxford University Press and the Audubon Society. In the 1960s, she turned her attention to poetry. In 1974 she published a small volume of poetry titled Multitudes, Multitudes; thereafter her work appeared frequently in the New Yorker. Upon the publication of her book of poems The Kingfisher in 1983, she became one of the most highly regarded poets in America. Her other collections include A Silence Opens (1994), Westward (1990), What the Light Was Like (1985), and Archaic Figure (1987). Clampitt received fellowships from the Guggenheim Foundation, the MacArthur Foundation, and the Academy of American Poets. A member of the American Academy of Arts and Letters, Clampitt taught at the College of William and Mary, Amherst College, and Smith College.Joseph Parisi, a Chicago Tribune Book World reviewer, called the poet's sudden success after the publication of The Kingfisher “one of the most stunning debuts in recent memory.” Parisi continued, “throughout this bountiful book, her wit, sensibility and stylish wordplay seldom disappoint.” In one of the first articles to appear after The Kingfisher's debut, New York Review of Books critic Helen Vendler wrote that “Amy Clampitt writes a beautiful, taxing poetry. In it, thinking uncoils and coils again, embodying its perpetua argument with itself.” Georgia Review contributor Peter Stitt also felt that “The Kingfisher is … in many ways an almost dazzling performance.” In the Observer, Peter Porter described Clampitt as “a virtuoso of the here and the palpable.” Porter ranked her with the likes of Emily Dickinson and Elizabeth Bishop.Critics praised the allusive richness and syntactical sophistication of Clampitt's verse. Her poetry is characterized by a “baroque profusion, the romance of the adjective, labyrinthine syntax, a festival lexicon,” said New York Times Book Review contributor Alfred Corn in an article about Clampitt's second important collection, What the Light Was Like (1985). Indeed, the poet's use of vocabulary and syntax is elaborate. “When you read Amy Clampitt,” suggests Richard Tillinghast in the New York Times Book Review, “have a dictionary or two at your elbow.” The poet has, Tillinghast continues, a “virtuoso command of vocabulary, [a] gift for playing the English language like a musical instrument and [a] startling and delightful ability to create metaphor.” Her ability as a poet quickly gained Clampitt recognition as “the most refreshing new American poet to appear in many years,” according to one Times Literary Supplement reviewer.Clampitt's work is also characterized by erudite allusions, for which she provides detailed footnotes. Times Literary Supplement critic Lachlan Mackinnon compared her “finical accuracy of description and the provision of copious notes at the end of a volume,” to a similar tendency in the work of Marianne Moore. “She is as ‘literary' and allusive as Eliot and Pound, as filled with grubby realia as William Carlos Williams, as ornamented as Wallace Stevens and as descriptive as Marianne Moore,” observed Corn. Washington Post reviewer Joel Conarroe added Walt Whitman and Hart Crane to this list of comparable poets: “Like Whitman, she is attracted to proliferating lists as well as to ‘the old thought of likenesses,'” wrote Conarroe. “And as in Crane her compressed images create multiple resonances of sound and sense.”What the Light Was Like centers around images of light and darkness. This book is “more chastely restrained than The Kingfisher,” according to Times Literary Supplement contributor Neil Corcoran. Conarroe believed that the poet's “own imagery throughout [the book] is sensuous (even lush) and specific—in short, Keatsian.” Corn similarly commented that “there are stirring moments in each poem, and an authentic sense of Keats' psychology.” He opined, however, that “her sequence [‘Voyages: A Homage to John Keats‘] isn't effective throughout, the reason no doubt being that her high-lyric mode” does not suit narrative as well as a plainer style would.Clampitt's Archaic Figure (1987) maintains her “idiosyncratic style,” as William Logan called it in the Chicago Tribune. New York Times Book Review contributor Mark Rudman noted the poet's “spontaneity and humor; she is quick to react, hasty, impulsive, responsive to place—and to space.” In the London Sunday Times, David Profumo further praised Archaic Figure. Taking the example of the poem “Hippocrene,” the critic asserted that this work “demonstrates her new powers of economy, the sureness of her rhythmic touch and the sheer readability of her magnificent narrative skills.” “Amy Clampitt,” concluded Logan, “has become one of our poetry's necessary imaginations.”Clampitt died in Lenox, Massachusetts in 1994. Get full access to The Daily Poem Podcast at dailypoempod.substack.com/subscribe

Amanda Holmes reads Wallace Stevens's “Peter Quince at the Clavier.” Have a suggestion for a poem by a (dead) writer? Email us: podcast@theamericanscholar.org. If we select your entry, you'll win a copy of a poetry collection edited by David Lehman. This episode was produced by Stephanie Bastek and features the song “Canvasback” by Chad Crouch. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Farnaz Fatemi and Nancy Miller Gomez discuss her debut book of poems, Inconsolable Objects, from YesYes Books. In addition to talking about several poems in the collection, Gomez talks about self-doubt along with her assessment of “poets as the fighter pilots of the literary world.”  Poems by others mentioned: Brigit Pegeen Kelly's “Song” and Wallace Stevens' “Snowman”. 

[caption id="attachment_5359" align="aligncenter" width="1024"] "Dolmen de Menga entrance: Massive stone portal of 6,000-year-old Neolithic tomb in Antequera, Spain."[/caption][caption id="attachment_5354" align="aligncenter" width="1024"] "La Peña de los Enamorados: Distinctive mountain face aligned with Dolmen de Menga, resembling human profile."[/caption] Key Ideas: The invention of architecture during the Neolithic period marked a significant shift in human psychology and religion, creating a division between natural and man-made spaces and giving rise to new concepts of ownership, territoriality, and sacred spaces. The relationship between architecture and the awareness of death is explored, with the idea that built structures allowed humans to create a sense of permanence and continuity in the face of mortality. Neolithic dolmens and their alignment with the summer solstice may have played a crucial role in rituals related to death, the afterlife, and the cyclical nature of the cosmos. The astronomical alignment of the Dolmen de Menga is part of a larger pattern of archaeoastronomical significance in Neolithic monuments across Europe, suggesting a shared cosmological understanding among ancient societies. Neolithic art and architecture, including the use of red ochre and iron oxide paintings, may be linked to shamanic practices and altered states of consciousness. Peter Sloterdijk's theory of spheres is applied to understand the evolution of human spatial awareness and the desire to recreate protected, womb-like spaces through architecture. The fundamental nature of architecture and its role in human life is explored through various philosophical, psychological, and sociological perspectives. Adventure Time with My Daughter My daughter Violet likes the show Adventure Time. She loves mythology, creepy tombs, long dead civilizations and getting to be the first to explore and discover new things. I took my 6-year-old daughter to the Neolithic portal Tomb, or Dolmen, Dolmen de Menga in Antequera, while on a trip to Spain. This ancient megalithic monument, believed to be one of the oldest and largest in Europe, dates back to the 3rd millennium BCE. It is made of 8 ton slabs of stone that archaeologists have a passing idea of how ancient people moved. It has a well drilled through 20 meters of bedrock at the back of it and it is oriented so that the entrance faces a mountain that looks like a sleeping giant the ancient builders might have worshiped. All of this delighted my daughter. The dolmen's impressive architecture features massive stone slabs, some weighing up to 180 tons, forming a 25-meter-long corridor and a spacious chamber. Inside, a well adds to the mystery, possibly used for rituals or as a symbol of the underworld. What's truly fascinating is the dolmen's alignment with the nearby La Peña de los Enamorados mountain. During the summer solstice, the sun rises directly over the mountain, casting its first rays into the dolmen's entrance, illuminating the depths of the chamber. This astronomical alignment suggests the ancient builders had a sophisticated understanding of the cosmos. According to archaeoastronomical studies, the Dolmen de Menga might have served as a symbolic bridge between life and death, connecting the world of the living with the realm of the ancestors. The solstice alignment could have held great spiritual significance, marking a time of renewal, rebirth, and the eternal cycle of existence. Sharing this incredible experience with my daughter and witnessing her awe and curiosity as she felt the weight of boulders that men had moved by hand, is a moment I'll treasure forever.  I reminded her that every time she has seen a building, be it a school or a sky-scraper, it all started here with the birth of architecture, and maybe the birth of something else too. Thinking about prehistory is weird because thinking about the limits of our human understanding is trippy and prehistory is, by definition, before history and therefore written language, meaning we cant really know the subjective experience of anyone who was a part of it. Talking to a child about the limits of what we as a species do or can know are some of my favorite moments as a parent because they are opportunities to teach children the importance of curiosity, intuition and intellectual humility than many adults never learn. Watching Violet contemplate a time when mankind didn't have to tools or advanced scientific knowledge was a powerful moment when I saw her think so deeply about the humanity she was a part of. What the Invention of Architecture did to Psychology Anecdote of the Jar by Wallace Stevens I placed a jar in Tennessee, And round it was, upon a hill. It made the slovenly wilderness Surround that hill.   The wilderness rose up to it, And sprawled around, no longer wild. The jar was round upon the ground And tall and of a port in air.   It took dominion everywhere. The jar was gray and bare. It did not give of bird or bush, Like nothing else in Tennessee. Prior to the advent of architecture, the world was an undivided, seamless entity, with no clear boundaries between human habitation and the natural environment. The construction of dolmens and other architectural structures shattered this unified perception, creating a new paradigm in which humans actively shaped and claimed portions of the earth for their own purposes. This act of claiming space and erecting structures upon it represented a profound psychological shift, as humans began to assert their agency and control over their surroundings. The division of the world into natural and man-made spaces had far-reaching implications for human psychology. It fostered a sense of ownership and territoriality, as individuals and communities began to identify with and attach meaning to the spaces they created. This attachment to claimed spaces gave rise to new concepts of home, belonging, and identity, which were intimately tied to the built environment. Simultaneously, the unclaimed, natural world began to be perceived as a separate entity, one that existed beyond the boundaries of human control and understanding. The impact of this division on religion was equally profound. The creation of man-made spaces, such as dolmens, provided a tangible manifestation of human agency and the ability to shape the world according to human beliefs and desires. These structures became sacred spaces, imbued with religious and spiritual significance, where rituals and ceremonies could be performed. The separation of natural and man-made spaces also gave rise to new religious concepts, such as the idea of sacred and profane spaces, and the belief in the ability of humans to create and manipulate the divine through architectural means. The significance of this division between natural and man-made spaces is beautifully captured in Wallace Stevens' anecdote of the jar. In this short poem, Stevens describes placing a jar in a wilderness, which "took dominion everywhere." The jar, a man-made object, transforms the natural landscape around it, asserting human presence and control over the untamed wilderness. This simple act of placing a jar in the wild encapsulates the profound psychological and religious implications of the invention of architecture. The jar represents the human impulse to claim and shape space, to impose order and meaning upon the chaos of the natural world. It symbolizes the division between the natural and the man-made, and the way in which human creations can alter our perception and understanding of the world around us. Just as the jar takes dominion over the wilderness, the invention of architecture during the Neolithic period forever changed the way humans perceive and interact with their environment, shaping our psychology and religious beliefs in ways that continue to resonate to this day. The Relationship of Architecture to the Awareness of Death Robert Pogue Harrison, a professor of Italian literature and cultural history, has written extensively about the relationship between architecture, human psychology, and our understanding of death. In his book "The Dominion of the Dead," Harrison explores how the invention of architecture fundamentally altered human consciousness and our attitude towards mortality. According to Harrison, the creation of built structures marked a significant shift in human psychology. Before architecture, early humans lived in a world where the natural environment was dominant, and death was an ever-present reality. The invention of architecture allowed humans to create a sense of permanence and stability in the face of the transient nature of life. By constructing buildings and monuments, humans could create a physical manifestation of their existence that would outlast their individual lives. This allowed for a sense of continuity and the ability to leave a lasting mark on the world. Harrison argues that architecture became a way for humans to assert their presence and create a symbolic defense against the inevitability of death. Moreover, Harrison suggests that the invention of architecture gave rise to the concept of the "afterlife." By creating tombs, pyramids, and other burial structures, humans could imagine a realm where the dead continued to exist in some form. These architectural spaces served as a bridge between the world of the living and the world of the dead, providing a sense of connection and continuity. Harrison also argues that architecture played a crucial role in the development of human culture and collective memory. Buildings and monuments became repositories for shared histories, myths, and values. They served as physical anchors for cultural identity and helped to create a sense of belonging and shared purpose among communities. However, Harrison also notes that architecture can have a complex relationship with death. While it can provide a sense of permanence and a symbolic defense against mortality, it can also serve as a reminder of our own impermanence. The ruins of ancient civilizations and the decay of once-great buildings can evoke a sense of melancholy and serve as a testament to the ultimate transience of human existence. Death and Ritual through Architecture Recent archaeological findings have shed light on the potential significance of the alignment of Neolithic dolmens with the summer solstice. These ancient stone structures, found throughout Europe and beyond, have long been shrouded in mystery. However, the precise positioning of these megalithic tombs suggests that they may have played a crucial role in Stone Age rituals related to death, the afterlife, and the cyclical nature of the cosmos. On the day of the summer solstice, when the sun reaches its highest point in the sky and casts its longest rays, a remarkable phenomenon occurs within certain dolmens. The light penetrates through the narrow entrance, illuminating the interior chamber and reaching the furthest recesses of the tomb. This alignment, achieved with great intentionality and skill, has led archaeologists to speculate about the beliefs and practices of the Neolithic people who constructed these monumental structures. One theory suggests that the dolmens served as portals for the souls of the deceased to ascend to the heavenly bodies. The sun, often revered as a divine entity in ancient cultures, may have been seen as the ultimate destination for the spirits of the dead. By aligning the dolmen with the solstice, the Neolithic people perhaps believed that they were creating a direct pathway for the souls to reach the sun and achieve a form of celestial immortality. Another interpretation posits that the solstice alignment was a way to honor and commemorate the dead. The penetrating light, reaching the innermost chamber of the dolmen, could have been seen as a symbolic reunion between the living and the deceased. This annual event may have served as a time for the community to gather, pay respects to their ancestors, and reaffirm the enduring bond between the generations. Furthermore, the cyclical nature of the solstice, marking the longest day of the year and the subsequent return of shorter days, may have held profound symbolic meaning for the Neolithic people. The alignment of the dolmen with this celestial event could have been interpreted as a representation of the cycle of life, death, and rebirth. Just as the sun reaches its peak and then begins its descent, the dolmen's illumination on the solstice may have symbolized the passage from life to death and the promise of eventual renewal. While we may never know with certainty the exact beliefs and rituals associated with the Neolithic dolmens and their solstice alignment, the structures themselves stand as testaments to the ingenuity, astronomical knowledge, and spiritual convictions of our ancient ancestors. The precision and effort required to construct these megalithic tombs and align them with the heavens suggest a deep reverence for the dead and a belief in the interconnectedness of life, death, and the cosmos. The Astronomical Alignment of the Dolmen de Menga and Its Broader Significance The astronomical alignment of the Dolmen de Menga with the summer solstice sunrise is not an isolated phenomenon, but rather part of a larger pattern of archaeoastronomical significance in Neolithic monuments across Europe and beyond. Many megalithic structures, such as Newgrange in Ireland and Maeshowe in Scotland, have been found to have precise alignments with solar and lunar events, suggesting that the ancient builders had a sophisticated understanding of the movements of celestial bodies and incorporated this knowledge into their architectural designs. The alignment of the Dolmen de Menga with the summer solstice sunrise may have held profound symbolic and ritual significance for the Neolithic community that built and used the structure. The solstice, as a moment of transition and renewal in the natural cycle of the year, could have been associated with themes of rebirth, fertility, and the regeneration of life. The penetration of the sun's first rays into the inner chamber of the dolmen on this date may have been seen as a sacred union between the celestial and terrestrial realms, a moment of cosmic alignment and heightened spiritual potency. The incorporation of astronomical alignments into Neolithic monuments across Europe suggests that these ancient societies had a shared cosmological understanding and a deep reverence for the cycles of the sun, moon, and stars. The construction of megalithic structures like the Dolmen de Menga can be seen as an attempt to harmonize human activity with the larger rhythms of the cosmos, creating a sense of unity and connection between people and the natural and celestial worlds they inhabited. Originally these structures were probably lovingly adorned with paint and patterns. This paint was usually made of red ochre and iron oxide.  We know that because the paintings that are left in Iberia are made of these materials and the extremely few neolithic portal tombs that were protected from the elements still have geographic markings.   [caption id="attachment_5367" align="aligncenter" width="715"] Here is me hiking up to look at some iron oxide neolithic paintings[/caption][caption id="attachment_5365" align="aligncenter" width="605"] Here is a little guy made out of iron oxide who is about six thousand years old[/caption][caption id="attachment_5372" align="aligncenter" width="466"] The 4th millennium BC painting inside the Dolmen Anta de Antelas in Iberia[/caption]   Some researchers, such as David Lewis-Williams and Thomas Dowson, have proposed that the geometric patterns and designs found in Neolithic art and architecture may represent the visions experienced by shamans during altered states of consciousness. Other scholars, like Michael Winkelman, argue that shamanism played a crucial role in the development of early human cognition and social organization. According to this theory, the construction of sacred spaces like the Dolmen de Menga may have been closely tied to the practices and beliefs of shaman cults, who served as intermediaries between the physical and spiritual realms. What is Architecture: Why did we invent it? Philosopher, Peter Sloterdijk's theory of spheres, particularly his concept of the first primal globe and its subsequent splitting, offers an intriguing framework for understanding the evolution of human spatial awareness and its manifestations in art and architecture. Sloterdijk's "spherology" posits that human existence is fundamentally about creating and inhabiting spheres - protected, intimate spaces that provide both physical and psychological shelter. The "first primal globe" in his theory refers to the womb, the original protected space that humans experience. According to Sloterdijk, the trauma of birth represents a splitting of this primal sphere, leading humans to constantly seek to recreate similar protective environments throughout their lives and cultures. This concept of sphere-creation and inhabitation can be seen as a driving force behind much of human culture and architecture. Applying this framework to Neolithic architecture like dolmens and portal tombs, we might interpret these structures as attempts to recreate protected, womb-like spaces on a larger scale. These stone structures, with their enclosed spaces and narrow entrances, could be seen as physical manifestations of the desire to recreate the security and intimacy of the "primal sphere" and our universal interaction with it through the archetype of birth. In the Neolithic period, the world was perceived as an undifferentiated sphere, where the sacred and the secular were intimately intertwined. The concept of separate realms for the divine and the mundane had not yet emerged, and the universe was experienced as a single, all-encompassing reality. In this context, the creation of the earliest permanent architecture, such as portal tombs, represents a significant milestone in human history, marking the beginning of a fundamental shift in how humans understood and organized their environment. Portal tombs, also known as dolmens, are among the most enigmatic and captivating architectural structures of the Neolithic era. These megalithic monuments, consisting of large upright stones supporting a massive horizontal capstone, have puzzled and intrigued researchers and visitors alike for centuries. While their exact purpose remains a subject of debate, many scholars believe that portal tombs played a crucial role in the emergence of the concept of sacred space and the demarcation of the secular and the divine. Mircea Eliade. In his seminal work, "The Sacred and the Profane," Eliade argues that the creation of sacred space is a fundamental aspect of human religiosity, serving to distinguish the realm of the divine from the ordinary world of everyday existence. He suggests that the construction of portal tombs and other megalithic structures in the Neolithic period represents an early attempt to create a liminal space between the sacred and the secular, a threshold where humans could encounter the numinous and connect with the spiritual realm. Remember that this was the advent of the most basic technology, or as Slotedijik might label it, anthropotechnics. The idea that sacred and secular space could even be separated was itself a technological invention, or rather made possible because of one. Anthropotechnics refers to the various practices, techniques, and systems humans use to shape, train, and improve themselves. It encompasses the methods by which humans attempt to modify their biological, psychological, and social conditions. The Nature of Architecture and Its Fundamental Role in Human Life Architecture, at its core, is more than merely the design and construction of buildings. It is a profound expression of human creativity, culture, and our relationship with the world around us. Throughout history, scholars and theorists have sought to unravel the fundamental nature of architecture and its impact on the human experience. By examining various theories and perspectives, we can gain a deeper understanding of the role that architecture plays in shaping our lives and the societies in which we live. One of the most influential thinkers to explore the essence of architecture was the philosopher Hannah Arendt. In her work, Arendt emphasized the importance of the built environment in creating a sense of stability, permanence, and shared experience in human life. She argued that architecture serves as a tangible manifestation of the human capacity for creation and the desire to establish a lasting presence in the world. Arendt's ideas highlight the fundamental role that architecture plays in providing a physical framework for human existence. By creating spaces that endure over time, architecture allows us to anchor ourselves in the world and develop a sense of belonging and continuity. It serves as a backdrop against which the drama of human life unfolds, shaping our experiences, memories, and interactions with others. Other theorists, such as Martin Heidegger and Gaston Bachelard, have explored the philosophical and psychological dimensions of architecture. Heidegger, in his essay "Building Dwelling Thinking," argued that the act of building is intimately connected to the human experience of dwelling in the world. He suggested that architecture is not merely a matter of creating functional structures, but rather a means of establishing a meaningful relationship between individuals and their environment. Bachelard, in his book "The Poetics of Space," delved into the emotional and imaginative aspects of architecture. He explored how different spaces, such as homes, attics, and basements, evoke specific feelings and memories, shaping our inner lives and sense of self. Bachelard's ideas highlight the powerful psychological impact that architecture can have on individuals, serving as a catalyst for introspection, creativity, and self-discovery. From a sociological perspective, theorists like Henri Lefebvre and Michel Foucault have examined the ways in which architecture reflects and reinforces power structures and social hierarchies. Lefebvre, in his book "The Production of Space," argued that architecture is not merely a neutral container for human activity, but rather a product of social, political, and economic forces. He suggested that the design and organization of space can perpetuate inequality, segregation, and control, shaping the way individuals and communities interact with one another. Foucault, in his work on disciplinary institutions such as prisons and hospitals, explored how architecture can be used as a tool for surveillance, regulation, and the exercise of power. His ideas highlight the potential for architecture to serve as an instrument of social control, influencing behavior and shaping the lives of those who inhabit or interact with the built environment. By engaging with the diverse theories and perspectives on architecture, we can develop a more nuanced understanding of its role in shaping the human experience. From the philosophical insights of Arendt and Heidegger to the psychological explorations of Bachelard and the sociological critiques of Lefebvre and Foucault, each perspective offers a unique lens through which to examine the essence of architecture and its impact on our lives. As we continue to grapple with the challenges of an increasingly urbanized and globalized world, the study of architecture and its fundamental nature becomes more important than ever. By unlocking the secrets of this ancient and enduring art form, we may find new ways to create spaces that nurture the human spirit, foster connection and belonging, and shape a built environment that truly reflects our highest values and aspirations. Violet's Encounter with the Dolmen It is a common misconception to think of children as blank slates, mere tabula rasas upon which culture and experience inscribe themselves. In truth, children are born with the same primal unconscious that has been part of the human psyche since prehistory. They are simply closer to this wellspring of archetypes, instincts, and imaginative potentials than most adults, who have learned to distance themselves from it through the construction of a rational, bounded ego. While I talked to the archaeologist on site of the Dolmen de Menga, I saw the that these rituals and symbols are still alive in the unconscious of modern children just as they were in the stone age. I looked at the ground to see that Violet was instinctually making a little Dolmen out of dirt. My daughter Violet's recent fear of the dark illustrates this innate connection to the primal unconscious. When she wakes up afraid in the middle of the night, I try to reassure her by explaining that the shadows that loom in the darkness are nothing more than parts of herself that she does not yet know how to understand yet or integrate. They are manifestations of the unknown, the numinous, the archetypal - all those aspects of the psyche that can be terrifying in their raw power and otherness, but that also hold the keys to creativity, transformation, and growth. Violet intuitively understands this link between fear and creativity. She has begun using the very things that frighten her as inspiration for her storytelling and artwork, transmuting her nighttime terrors into imaginative narratives and symbols. This process of turning the raw materials of the unconscious into concrete expressions is a perfect microcosm of the way in which art and architecture have always functioned for humans - as ways of both channeling and containing the primal energies that surge within us. When Violet walked through the Dolmen de Menga and listened to the archaeologist's explanations of how it was built, something in her immediately responded with recognition and understanding. The dolmen's construction - the careful arrangement of massive stones to create an enduring sacred space - made intuitive sense to her in a way that it might not for an adult more removed from the primal architect within. I see this same impulse in Violet whenever we go to the park and she asks me where she can build something that will last forever. Her structures made of sticks and stones by the riverbank, where the groundskeepers will not disturb them, are her way of creating something permanent and visible - her own small monuments to the human drive to make a mark on the world and to shape our environment into a reflection of our inner reality. By exploring the origins of architecture in monuments like the Dolmen de Menga, we can gain insight into the universal human impulse to create meaning, order, and beauty in the built environment. The megalithic structures of the Neolithic period represent some of the earliest and most impressive examples of human creativity and ingenuity applied to the shaping of space and the creation of enduring cultural landmarks. Moreover, studying the astronomical alignments and symbolic significance of ancient monuments can shed light on the fundamental human desire to connect with the larger cosmos and to find our place within the grand cycles of nature and the universe. The incorporation of celestial events into the design and use of structures like the Dolmen de Menga reflects a profound awareness of the interconnectedness of human life with the wider world, a theme that continues to resonate in the art and architecture of cultures throughout history. [caption id="attachment_5361" align="alignnone" width="2560"] Here is my explorer buddy[/caption] Bibliography Arendt, H. (1958). The Human Condition. University of Chicago Press. Bachelard, G. (1994). The Poetics of Space. Beacon Press. Belmonte, J. A., & Hoskin, M. (2002). Reflejo del cosmos: atlas de arqueoastronomía del Mediterráneo antiguo. Equipo Sirius. Criado-Boado, F., & Villoch-Vázquez, V. (2000). Monumentalizing landscape: from present perception to the past meaning of Galician megalithism (north-west Iberian Peninsula). European Journal of Archaeology, 3(2), 188-216. Edinger, E. F. (1984). The Creation of Consciousness: Jung's Myth for Modern Man. Inner City Books. Eliade, M. (1959). The Sacred and the Profane: The Nature of Religion. Harcourt, Brace & World. Foucault, M. (1975). Discipline and Punish: The Birth of the Prison. Vintage Books. Heidegger, M. (1971). Building Dwelling Thinking. In Poetry, Language, Thought. Harper & Row. Jung, C. G. (1968). The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious. Princeton University Press. Lefebvre, H. (1991). The Production of Space. Blackwell. Lewis-Williams, D., & Dowson, T. A. (1988). The signs of all times: entoptic phenomena in Upper Palaeolithic art. Current Anthropology, 29(2), 201-245. Márquez-Romero, J. E., & Jiménez-Jáimez, V. (2010). Prehistoric Enclosures in Southern Iberia (Andalusia): La Loma Del Real Tesoro (Seville, Spain) and Its Resources. Proceedings of the Prehistoric Society, 76, 357-374. Neumann, E. (1954). The Origins and History of Consciousness. Princeton University Press. Rappenglueck, M. A. (1998). Palaeolithic Shamanistic Cosmography: How Is the Famous Rock Picture in the Shaft of the Lascaux Grotto to be Decoded?. Artepreistorica, 5, 43-75. Ruggles, C. L. (2015). Handbook of Archaeoastronomy and Ethnoastronomy. Springer. Sloterdijk, P. (2011). Bubbles: Spheres Volume I: Microspherology. Semiotext(e). Sloterdijk, P. (2014). Globes: Spheres Volume II: Macrospherology. Semiotext(e). Sloterdijk, P. (2016). Foams: Spheres Volume III: Plural Spherology. Semiotext(e). Turner, V. (1969). The Ritual Process: Structure and Anti-Structure. Aldine Publishing Company. Winkelman, M. (2010). Shamanism: A Biopsychosocial Paradigm of Consciousness and Healing. Praeger. Further Reading: Belmonte, J. A. (1999). Las leyes del cielo: astronomía y civilizaciones antiguas. Temas de Hoy. Bradley, R. (1998). The Significance of Monuments: On the Shaping of Human Experience in Neolithic and Bronze Age Europe. Routledge. Devereux, P. (2001). The Sacred Place: The Ancient Origins of Holy and Mystical Sites. Cassell & Co. Gimbutas, M. (1989). The Language of the Goddess. Harper & Row. Harding, A. F. (2003). European Societies in the Bronze Age. Cambridge University Press. Hoskin, M. (2001). Tombs, Temples and Their Orientations: A New Perspective on Mediterranean Prehistory. Ocarina Books. Ingold, T. (2000). The Perception of the Environment: Essays on Livelihood, Dwelling and Skill. Routledge. Norberg-Schulz, C. (1980). Genius Loci: Towards a Phenomenology of Architecture. Rizzoli. Renfrew, C., & Bahn, P. (2016). Archaeology: Theories, Methods, and Practice. Thames & Hudson. Scarre, C. (2002). Monuments and Landscape in Atlantic Europe: Perception and Society During the Neolithic and Early Bronze Age. Routledge. Sherratt, A. (1995). Instruments of Conversion? The Role of Megaliths in the Mesolithic/Neolithic Transition in Northwest Europe. Oxford Journal of Archaeology, 14(3), 245-260. Tilley, C. (1994). A Phenomenology of Landscape: Places, Paths and Monuments. Berg. Tilley, C. (2010). Interpreting Landscapes: Geologies, Topographies, Identities. Left Coast Press. Twohig, E. S. (1981). The Megalithic Art of Western Europe. Clarendon Press. Watkins, A. (1925). The Old Straight Track: Its Mounds, Beacons, Moats, Sites, and Mark Stones. Methuen. Whittle, A. (1996). Europe in the Neolithic: The Creation of New Worlds. Cambridge University Press. Wilson, P. J. (1988). The Domestication of the Human Species. Yale University Press. Zubrow, E. B. W. (1994). Cognitive Archaeology Reconsidered. In The Ancient Mind: Elements of Cognitive Archaeology. Cambridge University Press. Zvelebil, M. (1986). Hunters in Transition: Mesolithic Societies of Temperate Eurasia and Their Transition to Farming. Cambridge University Press. Zvelebil, M., & Jordan, P. (1999). Hunter-Fisher-Gatherer Ritual Landscapes: Spatial Organisation, Social Structure and Ideology Among Hunter-Gatherers of Northern Europe and Western Siberia. Archaeopress.

A note about the poem “13 Ways of Nepantla” from Fernando Trujillo for the Michigan Quarterly Review's Summer 2024 issue: I had been reading Wallace Stevens's Collected Poems, and I kept finding myself back at “Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Blackbird,” which was in his first collection. I was struck by the austerity of the poem, in contrast to other works by Stevens. And I kept returning to the second canto, “I was of three minds, / Like a tree / In which there are three blackbirds.” I thought of myself and my community, how so many of us are of two, or even three minds, within the same tree, so to speak. We have our indigenous mind, our Caucasian mind, and our mestizo mind, cutting across both México and the US for me and many in my community. This also, linguistically, applies to my poetic lineage; Neruda en español inspired me as much as Whitman in English as a teenager, Dickinson as much as Lorca. This all contributed to my mindset when I started writing “13 Ways.” Of course my poem is not as tightly structured or imagistic as Stevens'. I'm writing more from sound than image. I'm also attempting to place myself, my experiences, and my family at the center of a poetic lineage, hence all the grabbing from other poets. All-in-all, what I'm trying to do is imagine myself in the song of “América America,” and more than just imagining, writing a place for myself in it.

They say imitation is the highest form of flattery—but it's also a learning tool and a lot of fun. Katie, Tim, and friends discuss the art of adopting another poets voice, joined by award-winning formalist and ventriloquist A.M. Juster, author of The Billy Collins Experience. Along the way, we share some other great poems mimicking Wallace Stevens, Kay Ryan, Bob Dylan, and more. At the table: Katie Dozier Timothy Green A.M. Juster Dick Westheimer Joe Barca

Charles and Pedro discuss supermarket-brand smoked salmon, flying taxis in Ohio, the words "cracked" and "languorous", and a poem by Wallace Stevens.

Proofs #1 and #2 from Aquinas' Summa Theologiae. Plus some Wallace Stevens poetry talk. You can find part one in Episode 9 --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/1243386908/support

The queens love to love you--but it didn't always start out like that. Stick around for our game: "Pulitzer Prize Winning Titles from an Alternate Universe."Please Support Breaking Form!Review the show on Apple Podcasts here.Buy our books:     Aaron's STOP LYING is available from the Pitt Poetry Series.     James's ROMANTIC COMEDY is available from Four Way Books.If you have library access, Ena Jung's 2015 article "The Breath of Emily Dickinson's Dashes" is worth the time.Watch Bill Murray read two of the more obscure Wallace Stevens poems here. Watch Jonathan Pryce read Wordsworth's "Composed Upon Westminster Bridge"Watch James Wright read some of his iconic poems, including "A Blessing" (at 33:15--he calls the poem "a description") here.John Ashbery's Flow Chart is a book-length poem comprising 4,794 lines, divided into six numbered chapters, each of which is further divided into sections or verse-paragraphs, varying in number from seven to 42. The sections vary in length from one or two lines, to seven pages. It includes at least one double-sestina (and one of them references oral sex between men).Hear Linda Gregg read and be interviewed in 1986 (~25 mins).Here's a quick book-trailer of C. Dale Young's The Halo, including a reading of one of the poems by Young.Listen to a few minutes of Archibald Macleish's Conquistador here.We can recommend Peter Maber's 2008 article about John Berryman's Dream Songs, "'So-called black': Reassessing John Berryman's Blackface Minstrelsy" as a good starting place to think about the racism in that book.Jazz Age poet, translator, and Poetry editor George Dillon was born in Jacksonville, Florida, in 1906.At 24, Audrey Wurdemann is the youngest person to win the poetry Pulitzer (for Bright Ambush). Read a few poems here.Read Robert P. Tristram Coffin's poem "Messages"Here's Mark Strand reading "Sleeping With One Eye Open"We reference  Stevie Nicks (a Gemini) singing her iconic song "Landslide"Winner of the 1973 Pulitzer Prize in Poetry, Robert Lowell's The Dolphin controversially  included letters from Elizabeth Hardwick (Lowell's former wife). The letters were sent to him after he left her for the English socialite and writer Caroline Blackwood. He was warned by many, among them Elizabeth Bishop, that “art just isn't worth that much.”

Is your 9–5 job supporting your life's work? How about using your job as a means to prioritize and accomplish your personal and creative endeavors? In this episode, Marie outlines the following ways that your 9–5 can support your prolific creation: providing routine and structure, clear priorities, steady pacing, research and development, and constraints. If you're not making time for your own pursuits, this episode will help get you on the right track.  Episode themes: Creative Pursuits | Life's Work | Time Management | 9–5 Job | Inspiration | Structure | Leadership Development | Creative Entrepreneurship Episode References:  George Saunders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Saunders  Joff Koons and Baraba Kruger https://artsandculture.google.com/story/the-day-jobs-artists-had-before-they-were-famous/SgWh3Nomv3hkIA?hl=en  Winston Churchill, Octavia Butler, TS Eliot https://www.writingroutines.com/famous-authors-who-also-had-full-time-professions/  Harper Lee, Wallace Stevens: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/famous-authors-who-kept-day-jobs-glenn-leibowitz/  Parkinson's Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law  Links: Marie Groover https://www.mariegroover.com/ The Corporate Psychic https://www.thecorppsychic.com/ Essential Teams https://www.youressentialteam.com/ Connect on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/cmariegroover/ Join the Mailing List https://thecorppsychic.myflodesk.com/e7bmhjidj4 The production of this episode was in collaboration with Lyndsee Nielson. See her work here: ⁠https://www.lyndseeloves.com/⁠ 

An episode from 2/19/24: Tonight, I read eleven essential poems by the American poet Wallace Stevens (1879-1955). All of them can be found in his Collected Poems. I also read from his letters, and the essay about Stevens at The Poetry Foundation. The poems are: Anecdote of the Jar The Snow Man Six Significant Landscapes Anecdote of Men by the Thousand How to Live. What to Do Gallant Château Bouquet of Belle Scavoir The Poem that Took the Place of a Mountain The Planet on the Table Final Soliloquy of the Interior Paramour The Idea of Order at Key West (read by Stevens) The biographies of Stevens that I mention are the two-volumes by Joan Richardson, and The Whole of Harmonium, by Paul Mariani. The 1988 documentary on Stevens, part of the Voices and Visions series, is also a great introduction. You can support Human Voices Wake Us here, or by ordering any of my books: Notes from the Grid, To the House of the Sun, The Lonely Young & the Lonely Old, and Bone Antler Stone. I've also edited a handful of books in the S4N Pocket Poems series. Email me at humanvoiceswakeus1@gmail.com. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/humanvoiceswakeus/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/humanvoiceswakeus/support

"And now we welcome the new year, full of things that have never been." Rilke Word of the Year: "Affection" noun af·​fec·​tion ə-ˈfek-shən  Synonyms of affection 1: a feeling of liking and caring for someone or something : tender attachment : FONDNESS She had a deep affection for her parents. Middle English affeccioun "capacity for feeling, emotion, desire, love," borrowed from Anglo-French, "desire, love, inclination, partiality," borrowed from Latin affectiōn-, affectiō "frame of mind, feeling, feeling of attachment," from affec-(variant stem of afficere "to produce an effect on, exert an influence on") + -tiōn-, -tiō, suffix of action nouns Referench: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/affection philostorgos: tenderly loving Original Word:φιλόστοργος, ον Phonetic Spelling:(fil-os'-tor-gos) Definition:tenderly loving Usage:tenderly loving, kindly affectionate to Reference: https://biblehub.com/greek/5387.htm For the full text of the Jefferson Lecture 2012, by Wendell Barry, please visit: https://www.neh.gov/about/awards/jefferson-lecture/wendell-e-berry-biography Photo by Guy Mendes Quoted excerpts from the lecture: “Because a thing is going strong now, it need not go strong for ever,” [Margaret] said. “This craze for motion has only set in during the last hundred years. It may be followed by a civilization that won't be a movement, because it will rest upon the earth.E. M. Forster, Howards End (1910) p. "The term “imagination” in what I take to be its truest sense refers to a mental faculty that some people have used and thought about with the utmost seriousness. The sense of the verb “to imagine” contains the full richness of the verb “to see.” To imagine is to see most clearly, familiarly, and understandingly with the eyes, but also to see inwardly, with “the mind's eye.” It is to see, not passively, but with a force of vision and even with visionary force. To take it seriously we must give up at once any notion that imagination is disconnected from reality or truth or knowledge. It has nothing to do either with clever imitation of appearances or with “dreaming up.” It does not depend upon one's attitude or point of view, but grasps securely the qualities of things seen or envisioned. I will say, from my own belief and experience, that imagination thrives on contact, on tangible connection. For humans to have a responsible relationship to the world, they must imagine their places in it. To have a place, to live and belong in a place, to live from a place without destroying it, we must imagine it. By imagination we see it illuminated by its own unique character and by our love for it. By imagination we recognize with sympathy the fellow members, human and nonhuman, with whom we share our place. By that local experience we see the need to grant a sort of preemptive sympathy to all the fellow members, the neighbors, with whom we share the world. As imagination enables sympathy, sympathy enables affection. And it is in affection that we find the possibility of a neighborly, kind, and conserving economy." "But the risk, I think, is only that affection is personal. If it is not personal, it is nothing; we don't, at least, have to worry about governmental or corporate affection. And one of the endeavors of human cultures, from the beginning, has been to qualify and direct the influence of emotion. The word “affection” and the terms of value that cluster around it—love, care, sympathy, mercy, forbearance, respect, reverence—have histories and meanings that raise the issue of worth. We should, as our culture has warned us over and over again, give our affection to things that are true, just, and beautiful. It is by imagination that knowledge is “carried to the heart” (to borrow again from Allen Tate). The faculties of the mind—reason, memory, feeling, intuition, imagination, and the rest—are not distinct from one another. Though some may be favored over others and some ignored, none functions alone. But the human mind, even in its wholeness, even in instances of greatest genius, is irremediably limited. Its several faculties, when we try to use them separately or specialize them, are even more limited. The fact is that we humans are not much to be trusted with what I am calling statistical knowledge, and the larger the statistical quantities the less we are to be trusted. We don't learn much from big numbers. We don't understand them very well, and we aren't much affected by them." ((Who Owns America? edited by Herbert Agar and Allen Tate, ISI Books, Wilmington, DE, 1999,  pages 109–114. (First published by Houghton Mifflin Company, Boston, 1936.) [Nature] "As Albert Howard, Wes Jackson, and others have carefully understood, she can give us the right patterns and standards for agriculture. If we ignore or offend her, she enforces her will with punishment. She is always trying to tell us that we are not so superior or independent or alone or autonomous as we may think. She tells us in the voice of Edmund Spenser that she is of all creatures “the equall mother, / And knittest each to each, as brother unto brother.” (The Faerie Queene, VII, vii, stanza XIV.) "To hear of a thousand deaths in war is terrible, and we “know” that it is. But as it registers on our hearts, it is not more terrible than one death fully imagined. The economic hardship of one farm family, if they are our neighbors, affects us more painfully than pages of statistics on the decline of the farm population. I can be heartstruck by grief and a kind of compassion at the sight of one gulley (and by shame if I caused it myself), but, conservationist though I am, I am not nearly so upset by an accounting of the tons of plowland sediment borne by the Mississippi River. Wallace Stevens wrote that “Imagination applied to the whole world is vapid in comparison to imagination applied to a detail.” (Opus Posthumous, edited, with an Introduction by Samuel French Morse, Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1957, page 176.) "But we need not wait, as we are doing, to be taught the absolute value of land and of land health by hunger and disease. Affection can teach us, and soon enough, if we grant appropriate standing to affection. For this we must look to the stickers, who “love the life they have made and the place they have made it in.” "E. M. Forster's novel, Howards End, published in 1910. By then, Forster was aware of the implications of “rural decay,” and in this novel he spoke, with some reason, of his fear that “the literature of the near future will probably ignore the country and seek inspiration from the town. . . . and those who care for the earth with sincerity may wait long ere the pendulum swings back to her again.” (Howards End, page 15, 112). Margaret's premise, as she puts it to Henry, is the balance point of the book:  “It all turns on affection now . . . Affection. Don't you see?” (Ibid., page 214). To have beautiful buildings, for example, people obviously must want them to be beautiful and know how to make them beautiful, but evidently they also must love the places where the buildings are to be built. For a long time, in city and countryside, architecture has disregarded the nature and influence of places. It is the vice of a vulgar mind to be thrilled by bigness, to think that a thousand square miles are a thousand times more wonderful than one square mile . . . That is not imagination. No, it kills it. . . . Your universities? Oh, yes, you have learned men who collect . . . facts, and facts, and empires of facts. But which of them will rekindle the light within? (Ibid., page 30)." “The light within,” I think, means affection, affection as motive and guide. Knowledge without affection leads us astray every time. Affection leads, by way of good work, to authentic hope. The factual knowledge, in which we seem more and more to be placing our trust, leads only to hope of the discovery, endlessly deferrable, of an ultimate fact or smallest particle that at last will explain everything. Margaret's premise, as she puts it to Henry, is the balance point of the book:  “It all turns on affection now . . . Affection. Don't you see?” The great reassurance of Forster's novel is the wholeheartedness of his language. It is to begin with a language not disturbed by mystery, by things unseen. But Forster's interest throughout is in soul-sustaining habitations: houses, households, earthly places where lives can be made and loved. In defense of such dwellings he uses, without irony or apology, the vocabulary that I have depended on in this talk:  truth, nature, imagination, affection, love, hope, beauty, joy. Those words are hard to keep still within definitions; they make the dictionary hum like a beehive. But in such words, in their resonance within their histories and in their associations with one another, we find our indispensable humanity, without which we are lost and in danger. Of the land-community much has been consumed, much has been wasted, almost nothing has flourished. But this has not been inevitable. We do not have to live as if we are alone.

Today's poem is The Idea of Order at Key West by Wallace Stevens. The Slowdown is your daily poetry ritual. In this episode, Major writes… “When a performer brings their whole self the planets align. Life magically makes sense. Today's famous poem ponders one of those moments in which, through another's expression, all agonies and confusions give way to a dignified stasis.” Celebrate the power of poems with a gift to The Slowdown today. Every donation makes a difference: https://tinyurl.com/rjm4synp

REPLAY FRIDAY /  Mildred recites 1921 Poem by Wallace Stevens, "The Snowman"http://PinkieThePigPodcast.com

In today's poem, Marianne Moore (November 15, 1887 – February 5, 1972) gets candid about poetry itself.One of American literature's foremost poets, Marianne Moore's poetry is characterized by linguistic precision, keen and probing descriptions, and acute observations of people, places, animals, and art. Her poems often reflect her preoccupation with the relationships between the common and the uncommon, advocate discipline in both art and life, and espouse restraint, modesty, and humor. She frequently used animals as a central image to emphasize themes of independence, honesty, and the integration of art and nature. Moore's work is frequently grouped with poets such as H.D., T.S. Eliot, William Carlos Williams, Wallace Stevens, Ezra Pound, and, later, Elizabeth Bishop, to whom she was a friend and mentor. In his introduction to her Selected Poems (1935), Eliot wrote: “Living, the poet is carrying on that struggle for the maintenance of a living language, for the maintenance of its strength, its subtlety, for the preservation of quality of feeling, which must be kept up in every generation … Miss Moore is, I believe, one of those few who have done the language some service in my lifetime.”-bio via Poetry Foundation Get full access to The Daily Poem Podcast at dailypoempod.substack.com/subscribe

Here's how the Carcanet Press website describes him: Michael Schmidt FRSL, poet, scholar, critic and translator, was born in Mexico in 1947; he studied at Harvard and at Wadham College, Oxford, before settling in England. Among his many publications are several collections of poems and a novel, The Colonist (1981), about a boy's childhood in Mexico. He is general editor of PN Review and founder as well as managing director of Carcanet Press." Michael has been applying his judgement publishing poetry and fiction for more than fifty years “discovering” and rediscovering, along the way, many of the greatest writers of our age. We met at the Carcanet offices in Manchester to talk about, among others things, what he does; Germans in Mexico; the love of poetry; The Harvard Advocate; magazines as good tools for book editors; the importance of the past; the difference between editing books and magazines; poets John Ashbery and Edgell Rickword; writers starting on the left; generous patrons: Baron Robert Gavron; prosody; syllabics; leaving room for the reader; overproduction being a straight path to bankruptcy; an education at Oxford; Milton; the Understanding Poetry anthology; writing letters; the centrality of politics; notions of balance and continuity; principles of permanence and change; the difference between taste and judgement; catalysts; the Yiddish saying: “One word is not enough, two is too many.” Changing literary culture; Wallace Stevens; enhancing, extending and revitalizing the language…all this in tandem with a chorus of Manchester trams piping in, in the background, throughout the conversation.

Stevens moved to Connecticut in 1916, having found employment at the Hartford Accident and Indemnity Co., where he became vice president in 1934. He had also begun to establish an identity for himself outside the worlds of law and business. His first book of poems, Harmonium (Alfred A. Knopf), published in 1923, exhibited the influences of both the English Romantics and the French Symbolists, and demonstrated a wholly original style and sensibility: exotic, whimsical, and infused with the light and color of an Impressionist painting. Today's poem comes from that early collection.For the next several years, Stevens focused on his business career. He began to publish new poems in 1930, however. In the following year, Knopf released a second edition of Harmonium, which included fourteen new poems, but excluded three of the decidedly weaker ones.More than any other modern poet, Stevens was concerned with the transformative power of the imagination. Composing poems on his way to and from the office and in the evenings, Stevens spent his days behind a desk at his office, and led a quiet, relatively uneventful life.Though now considered one of the major American poets of the twentieth century, Stevens did not receive widespread recognition until the publication of The Collected Poems of Wallace Stevens (Knopf, 1954), just a year before his death. His other major works include The Necessary Angel (Alfred A. Knopf, 1951), a collection of essays on poetry; Notes Towards a Supreme Fiction (The Cummington Press, 1942); The Man With the Blue Guitar (Alfred A. Knopf, 1937); and Ideas of Order (The Alcestis Press, 1935).-bio via Poets.org Get full access to The Daily Poem Podcast at dailypoempod.substack.com/subscribe

This week I want to share a wonderful website and resource with you, Melissa Alter Smith's brainchild, Teach Living Poets. When I first started teaching poetry, it couldn't have been clearer to me that students needed modern poets to relate to. Though we eventually enjoyed unpacking poems like Wallace Stevens' “13 Ways of Looking at a Blackbird,” that was only because we started with a lot of performance poetry, modern poems students leaned into and even loved.  Melissa Alter Smith, founder of the #teachlivingpoets hashtag, creator of the website of the same name, and author of a book on the subject, has created an incredible resource for teachers who want to bring more modern poetry into their classrooms. Since I interviewed her on the show to share her Amanda Gorman lessons, I've had the opportunity to collaborate on a number of projects with her showcasing other living poets and crafting poetry workshops for teens, and I'm so impressed by her imagination and the way she pushes kids to think deeply about poetry and then express themselves both through analysis and creative writing.  That's why today I want to highly recommend you go and check out her work. Take a tour of teachlivingpoets.com, visit the amazing virtual library of work available to you there, and find a new poetry workshop to add to your lessons this year. See how your students respond, and then go back for more! Go Further:  Explore alllll the Episodes of The Spark Creativity Teacher Podcast. Join our community, Creative High School English, on Facebook. Come hang out on Instagram.  Enjoying the podcast? Please consider sharing it with a friend, snagging a screenshot to share on the ‘gram, or tapping those ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ to help others discover the show. Thank you!   

Recorded by Academy of American Poets staff for Poem-a-Day, a series produced by the Academy of American Poets. Published on October 7, 2023. www.poets.org

Frank Felice, an eclectic composer celebrated for his postmodern mischievousness, explores his own brand of “consonant adiatonicism” in THE BEAUTY OF INNUENDOS. Throughout the album, Felice sets a variety of texts to music, ranging from the antiphons of 9th century Christian mystic Hildegard of Bingen to the modernist poetry of Wallace Stevens. Felice's compositions explore the given text while also demonstrating the virtuosic skill of the singer and the pianist; the latter, far from a mere accompaniment, joins with the voices equally to lend even great profundity to the poetic text. Featured in these recordings is mezzo-soprano Mitzi Westra, who commissioned two of the works. Above all, THE BEAUTY OF INNUENDOS solidifies Felice's reputation as a dauntless and innovative composer.For more information about this album, please visit The Beauty of Innuendos – Navona RecordsThis broadcast is sponsored by ‎Introducing Apple Music Classical on Apple Music

Amanda Holmes reads Wallace Stevens's poem “Sunday Morning.” Have a suggestion for a poem by a (dead) writer? Email us: podcast@theamericanscholar.org. If we select your entry, you'll win a copy of a poetry collection edited by David Lehman. This episode was produced by Stephanie Bastek and features the song “Canvasback” by Chad Crouch. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If you're enjoying the Hardcore Literature Show, there are two ways you can show your support and ensure it continues: 1. Please leave a quick review on iTunes. 2. Join in the fun over at the Hardcore Literature Book Club: patreon.com/hardcoreliterature Thank you so much. Happy listening and reading! - Benjamin

"The poem must resist the intelligence / Almost successfully." So begins this episode's poem, "Man Carrying Thing," by the modernist American poet Wallace Stevens. I got to talk about it with the scholar and poet Kimberly Quiogue Andrews.Kim is an assistant professor of English at the University of Ottawa and the author of The Academic Avant-Garde: Poetry and the American University (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2023). She's also a poet who has published two collections: A Brief History of Fruit (University of Akron Press, 2020) and BETWEEN (Finishing Line Press, 2018). She's the winner of the Akron Prize for Poetry, the New Women's Voices Award, the Ralph Cohen Prize for Criticism, and a development grant from the American Council of Learned Societies. Her essays and scholarship have appeared in such publications as The Los Angeles Review of Books, Contemporaries at Post45, Modernist Cultures, and New Literary History. Her creative work has appeared in The Florida Review, The Asian American Literary Review, Poetry Northwest, and Crab Orchard Review. Follow Kim on Twitter.And please follow, rate, and review the podcast if you like what you hear. Share the episode with a friend! And subscribe to my Substack, where you'll get a newsletter to go with each episode.

Think about your favorite teacher. What were they like? What made them your favorite? Now, imagine if your favorite teacher quit their job before you had them in your life. What would you have lost? Think about what future generations of students will lose if more teachers leave because teachers don't feel valued or trusted or fairly compensated. If things don't change, more teachers will leave because they are realizing that they can. In this episode, we hear from former teachers who left education and are happier for it.   Music:  Theme Song By Julian Saporiti  “Don't You Leave” by Crowander is licensed under a CC BY-NC license. “Happening for Lulu” by Kraus   is licensed under a CC BY-NC-SA license. “Soldier's Story” by Blanket Music  is licensed under a CC BY-NC license. “Be Nice” by Jahzzar is licensed under a CC BY-SA license. “Fireworks” by Jahzzar is licensed under a CC BY-SA license. “Faster, Sons of Vengeance, Faster!” by Doctor Turtle is licensed under a CC BY-NC license. “Changing Moment (ID 1651)” by Lobo Loco is licensed under a CC BY-NC-SA license. Transcript: A quick warning, this episode discusses sexual abuse. During the quarantine, I received an anonymous letter from a former student that had since graduated. After pleasantries, the note says “I'm writing you now to thank you for things that you never knew you did when I was your student.”  And then they go on to explain that though I would not have known this, they had been sexually abused by their father, and they had just found the strength to tell someone, cut ties, and start the healing process. They said that my class was a space that made them feel safe, heard, and respected. They wrote that I helped them quote “understand that there are good men, ones that deserve to be fathers.” end quote They were intentional in saying that they didn't know if I would figure out who they were, but regardless, they wanted to thank me and let me know that I played a part in helping them get through the abuse.  Every time I read this letter, it breaks me. I hate that this student had to go through this. I hate their father. I am humbled by the fact that I could be a source of support for this student, and I hope so badly that they can heal.  No kid should ever have to experience this, but they do, and because they do, they need adults, teachers, in their lives that can support them, even if those adults are unaware of that support. We need teachers who are themselves supported and happy and in a space that values them, so that they can be as wholly present as possible for students. But at this moment in time, many teachers, so of the people that students need most, don't want to teach anymore. And that fact is devastating. We're at the end of this series. We've explored a variety of things contributing to teachers leaving the profession - feelings of being devalued, a lack of autonomy, struggles with mental health. We've looked at why teachers might be treated the way they have been, from pop-cultural stereotypes to an odd historical inheritance …to having unclear expectations of what education is for. And we've even looked at some solutions and where they come from. All of this to make sense of why teachers might be leaving, and to draw attention to the fact that without authentic and relevant change that is not the burden of teachers, teachers will keep leaving.  Today, we will hear teachers who left education explain how their lives are now, and  we will explore some resources available to teachers who are looking to leave education. And from what I've heard through interviews and people reaching out to me because of this podcast, a vast majority of teachers that have left the classroom are much happier. So, if nothing from this season has convinced you that we need to do something to keep teachers in education and something real, maybe this episode will. I am not saying this as a threat, but from the perspective of a realist. Think of it as a natural consequence. Refuse to address and take genuine action to keep teachers, or they will find their way out of education because they can. And in this present moment, they will likely be happier for it.  This is the finale to Those Who Can't Teach Anymore, a 7-part podcast series exploring why teachers are leaving education and what can be done to stop the exodus. I'm Charles Fournier. Here is part 7: “Those Who Can't Teach Anymore” Camile Lofters reached out to me in the early stages of this project. Camile was a high school English and journalism teacher in south Florida. She left teaching after 15 years in the classroom , and she was one of those people that felt destined to be in the classroom. Camile Lofters: I feel like teaching was in my blood.  My mom was an early childhood education major and taught preschool, and, you know, lower elementary school. So I mean, I grew up watching her, and wanting to emulate her. So I would line up my stuffed animals and like, I had a little pointer, and I would teach them things. And when I graduated, I was so excited to start teaching that it was like everything to me. But like most of the people that shared their stories throughout this podcast, Camile left. And even though she is from Florida and most of the other folks I've spoken with are from Wyoming and the west, Camile's reasons for leaving were the same. She pointed to not being trusted or seen as an expert, to politicians that oversteps their role in education, to low pay, to being undervalued, and the list goes on. And like the other teachers, Camile still values education. Camile Lofters: Even though I did leave the profession, I still love teaching, and I still think it's one of the greatest professions. But as we all know, in our country, education system is a little broken, maybe it's a lot broken is a better way to say it. So, I feel like when the pandemic happened, it sort of broke everything wide open forever for a lot of people. I mean, it's not like it's just me.  We haven't addressed the pandemic much throughout this series. Not because the pandemic didn't have a significant impact on teachers deciding to leave, but because the reasons teachers are leaving didn't start with the pandemic.The pandemic forced teachers to reflect on what they're willing or not willing to accept. Camile reflected on whether she could teach for another two decades. Camile Lofters: And the answer used to be yes, I'm going to teach until I'm 60. And when it started to become like I don't know, and then it was like, definitely not. And I was like, this means I need to do something else. You know, if I'm feeling that way, it's not fair to myself, my family, but also I think to the students. They deserve to have teachers that are really excited to be there. And yes, I am a good teacher and I could go back and still I think do a good job, but I just feel like mentally I would be falling apart and that's not that's not really fair to anybody. You've heard this throughout the series. Many teachers are leaving because they know that they aren't doing their job as well as they want to, so they leave. The pandemic contributed to this. More teachers thought about what they could and couldn't do anymore. The pandemic made the job more difficult. Skepticism of teachers rose, student and parent behaviors became worse, everyone's mental health seemed to get worse, and more expectations were placed on teachers. Teachers know this, but when more is put on a teacher's plate, it's usually not taken off.  Camile felt this, and she also had a daughter in the middle of it all.  Camile Lofters: That 2020-2021 school year was just really, really difficult. And so then by the time my daughter was born, you know, in June 2021, I was like, No, this is this, I gotta find something else. So she started the process of looking for something that she could transition into. And she was looking for something that  would allow for more financial opportunities. On top of having a daughter, feeling all of the frustrations and stressors of teaching and the impact of the pandemic, Camile wanted to be paid better. Camile Lofters: Pay was a big part of it. It's really disheartening to work so hard for so long and never see an increase in your salary. I graduated from college with all my friends, we were all making about the same amount of money. And now most of them are making double, if not triple you. You know what I'm making. I worked really hard to be a good teacher and constantly doing professional development and looking for new strategies. And so I think it's disheartening to not have that come with any sort of raise and compensation. So I will say that that was definitely a factor when I realized that if you account for inflation, I had basically never gotten a raise, like ever. And her only prospect for a raise was to become an administrator, despite all of the extra work she'd done like designing curriculums.  Camile Lofters: And I hate when people say, “Well, you didn't go into teaching for the money.” Well, of course I didn't, but I'm a human being that needs to survive, I have a family and I would like to be able to provide for them. Pay matters, so Camile left teaching and transitioned into a new career where she feels better about the pay.  Camile Lofters: So, I've been making a little bit more money, not a ton, but a little bit, and it does matter to me, because there is the potential for me to make more money. In my job, I have the potential to earn more, And there's a lot of room for growth. And so that was very appealing to me, to actually be in a position where there could be more upward movement in my salary.  Camile acknowledges that she now has to pay her own health insurance which means her take home pay is about equal to what she was making as a teacher, but that doesn't matter to her.  Camile Lofters: I'm so much happier that it feels different. It feels like I'm making more money. And her transition out of education allows her to continue working with kids, which is something many teachers point to when deciding whether or not they will leave.  Camile Lofters:  I am the photography manager and sales representative for a school photography company, I was a yearbook teacher for eight years. So the company I work for, actually, I used to be like, a customer of theirs, like I was the teacher, and they were my photography company. And her transition to her new job has been pretty smooth.  Camile Lofters: And I love it. It's a great job for me. I use a lot of skills that I already had as a teacher. I already knew part of the business because I was a customer, so I already know the customers want, what they need, that sort of thing. Part of what made her transition smooth was her willingness to learn. The people that I have talked with that successfully left education did so with humility, knowing that they had a lot of great skills, but that they also had a lot to learn.  Camile Lofters: So learning the business side of things, I am literally always just sitting in my boss's office whenever possible, just like listening to him talk about the business, because it's just mind blowing to learn. Camile Lofters: And I'm still learning because obviously our company's since it's a school photography company, we follow the school year, and each phase of the school year brings something different. But yeah, I'm really excited about it. I think it's cool to always be learning something new.  So Camile left teaching, but she still gets to take part in the things that she enjoyed about teaching.  Camile Lofters: And I get to work with teenagers all day long at a really exciting time in their lives. They're doing, you know, they're seeing your pictures and their, or their school pictures. And they're usually pretty excited about that. So just making them feel good. You know, like, establishing a rapport with a teenager is hard for a lot of people. It's not hard for me. It's something I did all day long. So it's been really cool to use my teaching skills in a new way. But the things that are different about education are well worth it.  Camile Lofters: I have just a lot better work life balance, now. So my schedule is flexible. If I need to leave early one day, I can just schedule to have an early day or come later or you know, be closer or farther away from home. So that's really nice. I also get to actually speak to adults during the day, which is great. That's always nice. You know, really silly things like I can use the bathroom whenever I want to.    And the common rebuttal for why teachers shouldn't complain about their jobs, you know, summers off, Camile doesn't mind not having her summers off. Camile Lofters: There have been several people still to this day, who are like, “Oh, well, don't you miss having the summer off?” and different kinds of things like that. And I think at the end of the day, having a summer off is great, but if you feel like you're only living your life in those two months of summer vacation, and then the rest of the year, you're miserable, then like, what good is that? She has more financial opportunities and she feels happier. And contrary to any stereotypes, her leaving education doesn't mean that she hates kids or that she is anti-education. She has this to say to teachers who are struggling with that aspect of leaving education.  Camile Lofters: So I would just say that and that, if you are thinking about leaving the classroom, that doesn't make you a bad teacher. That it's normal to have those thoughts, and that's okay. Camile advocates for teachers as much as she can, and she feels like being outside of the classroom gives her some opportunities to be a little more vocal - especially in Florida where teachers have been egregiously attacked through politically charged legislation like the don't say gay bill, the stop woke act, the overall rejection of AP African American history, and sadly the list goes on.  She uses her social media platform to share her voice. Camile's sense of relief and happiness upon leaving education is not unique. This shouldn't be the case. And teachers aren't quitting to sit around, they are going into other careers, which may make it very difficult to lure them back to the classroom. If we want teachers to stay in education, education needs to be more appealing than the other options available to them. Jaye Wacker, who we heard from in the first episode, left teaching after being in the classroom for three decades. He is now a Senior Public Information Officer at the Wyoming Department of Administration and Information. Like Camile, Wacker feels like life is better.  Jaye Wacker: I work for a director, who is one of the themes in Administration and Information that she keeps hammering is work life balance. And I don't feel like teachers have work-life balance in the slightest. Well, yeah, it's balanced, but it's balanced one way you know it. And that's tragic. That's no way to live. It's no way to draw great people into the profession. There has to be a balance. There has to be a…there's something more than the paycheck. Wacker uses the portrait of a single day to explain how his life is different since he left teaching.  Jaye Wacker: Sundays, I was the worst person to be around, hard to be around. And whether I was working on my lesson plans for the week or trying to devise something, or even just putting it off, because I didn't want to deal with it. Waiting until Hannah was in bed Sunday night, and then sitting right there at the end of that dining room table, with my books, holding back the curtains and trying to figure out what's the best way to reach and meet the GVC.  As a reminder, the GVC, or Guaranteed and Viable Curriculum, is the effort to standardize education, and acts like a middle-man to the Common Core Standards. So, for Jaye, his quality of life on Sundays is better because he isn't having to use Sundays to prepare for the week. He doesn't get those Sunday Scaries anymore.  Jaye Wacker: I can do whatever, and then just go to work the next day. I go to work, and the sun's up. I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've sat in the room and watch the sunrise.  And like Camile, losing out on summers wasn't a big deal, contrary to the cultural stereotype that teachers only work for the summer.  Jaye Wacker: I'm a firm believer that June, July and August are not the three best reasons to be a teacher. In fact, they're probably the three worst because people who think they're the three best, they're miserable nine months out of the year. And so I really kind of stressed about how am I going to deal with summer. And last year, I didn't even notice. I didn't even notice. And this year, the only thing I know is that, oh, my daughter's not in school anymore. And I just go to work and it's chill, and I work with good people. And I used to say teachers worked 12 months and nine. It's more.  Wacker misses some of the people, he misses the kids, he misses the conversations, he misses the books, but he doesn't miss how he felt. He still has some leftover traces of being a teacher ingrained in him. Jaye Wacker: If somebody's in my office, and we're just having a conversation. I feel a little bit of panic. I literally do. Because I have that feeling like I need to be doing something else. I don't miss the pressure. It is and it's gotten geometrically more pressurized in the last few years. I don't miss that a bit. I and that's part of what I couldn't take any more. I couldn't take the pressure anymore The pressure and stress Wacker was feeling was keeping him from the people that matter most to him. Now he gets to spend more quality time with them. Another aspect of why teachers left teaching was being trusted. For Stephanie Reese, the opportunity to make more money and  to feel  respected was huge in why she changed careers. We've heard from Stephanie several times over the course of this podcast. She was a PE teacher and she left teaching after eight years. She is now the general manager at Black Tooth Brewing Company in Cheyenne, Wyoming.  Stephanie Reese: I have a fantastic boss, but I'm basically my own boss, because I'm here in Cheyenne. And they're up in Sheridan. So I'm trusted to make decisions. And I don't have anybody breathing down my back. And, you know, I think the trust is the biggest thing.   With that trust, comes a feeling of being valued, which equates to getting paid better.  Stephanie Reese: When my boss offered me stock in the company, like having a part of something, being a part of something because you earned it, and being promoted like that was definitely like, Oh, this is not education. And yeah, I mean, I'm definitely surprised each day. I'm like, wow, this is so much better than each day because you're just not enduring the shit that goes along with everything, like you can actually do your job. Right? So many more distractions when you teach or, like expectations, or having to juggle this, this and this, or do all of this without any support. And you're expected to do this. And so with this job, like, I can just do my job. It's a really good feeling. And if this isn't clear, Stephanie's quality of life is much better. Not only does she feel satisfied in her work, she is making more money than she did as a teacher. This has been a theme, many of the people that talk about a pay increase also express a feeling of being valued more in their new jobs. Stephanie explains that her job is not without stress, but it feels different.  Stephanie Reese:  I can tell, okay, all this work I'm putting in the stress is worth it, because we're making money. And so I love that aspect of it. Teaching in a lot of ways is you give and give and give and give and give and give a whole lot more. And then, oh, here's a $5 gift card to Starbucks. Thank you so much for all of what you do. Like that, to me in a nutshell is teaching.  There's no appreciation for it. Really, maybe superficial, but not individualized. Stephanie was adamant that teachers that are suffering and not enjoying their work need to reflect on what they want out of their life because change is possible, and it might not be worth waiting for the system to change around them.  Stephanie Reese: Life is too short, to waste time or thinking about, well, if this happens, then I'll be happy. You've had to figure that out now, because it's just way more important. The positive is driving it, especially me quitting it, it definitely was driven by wanting more positive in my life rather than negative, and it is worth it to change. So if you're scared, or if you feel like you need more help, there's so much out there so many people, especially nowadays who have been through the same thing. And as you've heard, people are transitioning into a variety of different careers - all resulting in better qualities of life. They transitioned into careers that fit them best. Stephanie manages a bar, Wacker works for the state, Camile works for an education adjacent company, and Ron Ruckman, who we heard from a few episodes back left teaching after 23 years to work in construction.  Ron Ruckman: My mental state has always been that way in the summer, like any mental state is so much better. I'm so much happier and so much less stressed. Because I go to work and we have fun and we joke around and we do our thing and we all we kind of work together and everybody respects each other and we know that each other can do the job, but I go to school and I always kind of feel like, there's always somebody watching me thinking like somebody is constantly evaluating every second of everything I do, which they're probably doing construction, but it doesn't feel like that for some reason. Why, I don't know?  Ron is happy not to have to manage the emotional baggage of teaching. He doesn't have to manage other people's emotional wellbeing in construction.  Ron Ruckman: It just builds. I don't have that with construction. You know? If so and so wacks their thumb, you're like, Well, that was dumb, move on, you know, or whatever. Or they got a rough family life, that's your deal, dude. We're gonna get back to work. Yeah, we got things to do. It's hard to make non-educators understand the level of relief people feel when they leave the profession. For Ron, it was the ability to not feel so emotionally overdrawn.  For my wife Jennie, who left teaching after 7 years to pursue her MBA and Pharmacy degrees, it's a matter of feeling valued and being fairly compensated for the work she does.  Jennica Fournier: When I told people, I just I can't do education anymore. I can't do the parents. I can't do the administrators and everything. People said, well, you know, patients can be really rude to pharmacists. And pharmacists don't have it easy either. And they work really long hours, and they're on their feet all day. And I just thought, yeah, that is all the same things that I'm going through, but I will get paid two to three times more than I would as a teacher. And that's significantly different. And I feel compensated, but not just like a monetary compensation. I would also get respect in the community. People would respect my opinions more. You know, if I ran for office as a pharmacist, I think that I would get respected more than running for office as a teacher. So I think you get more reward than you do. I guess you get more benefit compared to your risk. This goes back to the need to value educators. That means seeing them as human beings, not martyrs, not saints, not slobs. It's not allowing stereotypes to dictate how teachers are treated or viewed. For Jennie, she felt a clear difference in how she was treated outside of education.   Jennica Fournier: So some of the MBA events, just the networking that happened and the high level conversations that you were able to have with other people that didn't focus around children. I suppose the first time that I was at a networking event. I felt very much like respected and I felt interesting. That was kind of the moment where I was like, Wow, I'm outside of this upstanding member of society realm. I mean, as of as a pharmacist, do I still have to be a professional and live my life? In a, in a good way? Yes.  Jennie is happy to be away from the unrealistic expectations of being a teacher. These are the stereotypes that we discussed in an earlier episode.  Jennica Fournier: To be a good teacher, it means that like, I'm pure, and I'm thoughtful, and I'm helping and I'm a martyr. It's not like she's teaching to the highest level of her degree, and she has all the best training to be a teacher. I don't really feel like that's what people think of when they think of a teacher. Like she's teaching the top notch science, the highest level science that she can and the newest things. That's not what people remark about with their high school teachers. They remark about how friendly are they? And this shift out of education has done wonders for how she feels about herself.  Jennica Fournier: My self-esteem is incredibly higher than it was before. I get a lot of positive affirmation, and I get it from my peers and my teachers in this setting, and I feel very accomplished here.  I want to pause here for a moment. You might be thinking, Charles, this is starting to sound kind of repetitive. Well that's because it is, because I cannot stress enough that teachers are leaving their jobs, and when they leave, many of them are happier. When I asked former teachers what it would take for them to return to education, a few said they would consider returning if their new career didn't work out and education had tremendous reform. One said a quarter of a million dollar salary. And most said they would NEVER consider returning.  Shane Atkinson is one of the people who is much happier after quitting teaching. He is now working in government and he feels like he's valued and trusted. Shane is the person in the first episode that explained how education was like an abusive relationship. Being in a new career only highlights how glad he is to be out of teaching.  Shane Atkinson: Every morning, I start work at 9am. If I drive to work, it takes me three minutes. I ride my bike almost every single day. Takes me 20 minutes to ride my bike. So quality of life wise, I've been sleeping better than I have, in my entire adult life. I sleep so well, I wake up feeling refreshed, I wake up at the time that I would have had to be at work before. And I sit around, I read the news, I listen to some music, I drink coffee, just have these nice, leisurely mornings. For example, Shane compares what it's like being late at his new job versus what it was like to be late as a teacher.  Shane Atkinson: I was five minutes late, one day, probably two weeks into starting at this office. And I did not have a sense of doom. I didn't feel like my boss was there and you know, walk in and she's like, Hey, how's it going? No, no big deal whatsoever. I remember multiple times administration would be sitting by the door where teachers come in, basically keeping notes who's here two minutes late.  And in this new career, he feels like he is receiving what he needs to feel sustained and supported.  Shane Atkinson: The other thing where I work now is just incredibly supportive. My boss, my immediate supervisor, my head boss, they actually seem to value you as a human being. It's crazy, I didn't even realize that was a thing. And I'm sure it's probably not everywhere. But I just feel absolutely valued.  If I said, I had a really hard day today, and we have those hard days. And I just need some time. Great Take, take tomorrow, take a mental health day you've earned it, you know, would be the narrative. If I get off a very tough call, or a rough meeting, right, we deal with some pretty sensitive things, sometimes people even more so than education, but I can hang up for that call. And I can go for a while. I'm not ruled by the bell schedule. So, all of these former teachers left education, and are happy with their new careers. And I know this is a small sample of teachers - 5 teachers don't represent all teachers, but their stories and their experiences cover the gamut of what I've heard from teachers across the country. Based on my experience, a majority of teachers that have left education are happier. If we want to keep good teachers in education, teaching has to be more appealing than alternatives. Because right now, folks are willing to go back to school, jump into completely different fields, work in the service industry, work constructions, lose out on the retirement plans and insurance plans, in order to get away from being a teacher.  And those that don't like their work but remain in education, may have a variety of reasons for doing so. Shane speculates on why folks stay when they don't want to be there. Shane Atkinson:  I'm here because I have to be here because I need my health insurance. I'm here because I need a steady paycheck. I'm here because this is a big one. What else am I going to do? Who else? What experience? Do I have to go out and do something else? Right? And it's, it's actually really difficult. I read a lot about this when I left, because I had no clue what I was going to do.  That last piece of what Shane is getting at, the “I don't know what else I can do” is a big hurdle for lots of people. Many teachers have spent every year of their lives in school either as a student or as a teacher. Many don't know anything else, so transitioning might be terrifying. They may have also bought into the rhetoric that teachers aren't able to do anything else, “Those who can't do, teach,” which I think we've established is a ridiculous saying that should go the way of the dodo. And if you are among the folks that think teachers are only able to teach, and nothing else, you are gravely mistaken. And that assumption is tied to why teachers are treated poorly. The assumption that teachers are stuck could be contributing to why teachers aren't being valued. To make sense of this, here is a quick example. One of my favorite poems by Wallace Stevens has this line, “Death is the mother of beauty.” So without death, we might not recognize beauty. Now, when thinking about teachers, without the threat of teachers leaving, teachers might not be valued like they should be. It's a catch-22. When teachers quit, they are valued, but teachers are quitting because they aren't valued.  So, in order for teachers to be valued, it might require more teachers to leave the profession. And for folks who want to leave, but don't know how to make the transition, there are people who help teachers figure out how to transition out of education. Meet Daphne Gomez. Daphne is the Founder and CEO of the Teacher Career Coach, a company that helps teachers transition out of the classroom. Daphne Gomez: So if they don't make changes to how much we ask of teachers, how much we pay teachers, it's gonna continue to get worse. It's not worth it for people to be in a position where they're being beaten up. Daphne helps teachers leave education. She is not the reason teachers want to leave education. She is not responsible for teachers that are overworked, payed poorly, treated poorly, and devalued. She is someone who tells teachers that it's okay if they want better for themselves. Teachers are not limited with what they can do. And from what Daphne has seen, folks that are leaving are doing well.  Daphne Gomez: We have to lower class sizes, we have to be able to improve our funding for teachers salary, we have to make changes as far as that goes, because right now teachers are hearing stories of people who are leaving. I can say 85% of over 300 teachers that I surveyed just last week, have either matched their salary or increased their salary with whatever position they took after leaving the classroom following my resources.  Teachers have a lot of skills that can translate into new careers. This is a reality that non-educators need to be aware of. And teacher attrition will only get worse because teachers are seeing their former colleagues leave, make more money, and feel happier in their lives.  Teachers are tired of being beaten up, so they are leaving teaching because they are realizing that they can. I don't blame them. And there are times when I envy them - when I hear how happy they are or when another bad piece of legislation or policy is voted in, I think, “I could do something else” and feel pretty good about it.  As a former teacher, Daphne is well aware of the difficulty of being a teacher and the struggles of trying to leave the profession. Daphne Gomez: For me, when I started thinking about leaving the classroom, I was breaking down, sobbing on the way to work. I was going into the hospital, not every day or anything. But there are about three different times that I went to the doctor and he said, these are weird, stress related illnesses, it does something to your body.   But something about it did not work for me anymore. And when I started to tell my coworkers I am not going to a different school district, I'm just gonna find a different job and see if that helps me heal, everybody's first sentence out of their mouth was, “You can't leave. You're a good teacher. Children need good teachers.”  The people that said this to Daphne were not bad people.  I heard this when I stopped coaching. It's not that people are trying to guilt teachers into staying - it's that they want good teachers to stay, but they have nothing to offer except “you're good at this.” It goes back to that stereotype that a teacher should just continue the job because they are doing a good thing, but again, teachers should be treated like martyrs. And being good at something isn't enough of a reason to continue doing it. Daphne wants to change this view of leaving education.  Daphne Gomez: There's really never been that discussion of it's okay to walk away from it. Even if you're good. Even if you're happy. You can be the best teacher in the world and very, very happy. And then someone offers you something that's $10,000 more, and you absolutely can leave for it. But we've never had those discussions.  Daphne Gomez: I think that there is a system of emotional blackmail and gaslighting that's been going on in the education system for a really long time. And I think that they know that they can hold children above teachers' heads. They can use that year over year over year.  But as we heard from the teachers earlier in the episode, many of them left even though they liked to teach or they enjoyed the kids. None of them left and said, “I hate kids.” This is an easy way for people to demonize anyone that thinks of leaving and to guilt teachers into staying. This isn't a healthy way to keep teachers in education. This is that abusive relationship that Shane pointed out at the start of the series. Part of what has allowed this rhetoric and guilt to work for so long is the fact that teachers didn't think they had a choice. But they do have a choice. Part of what set Daphne on the path to create The Teacher Career Coach was to address the problems she had with leaving education. She reflected on her own experience in order to help others. She started by asking questions about her experience.  Daphne Gomez: Why was that so hard on me? Why did I feel this need to stay in a career where I was truly breaking down? And why was it such a hard decision for me to actually leave? And how can I help other people who are struggling with that? For Daphne, some of this starts with addressing the guilt teachers have when trying to decide to walk away.  Daphne Gomez: I've seen the guilt, where people are offered positions, and they've said, I can't do it. I want to stay one more year because my grade level team and I have a lot of work. And I think where a lot of this comes from is because we went into this position because we want to help others. Every single thing that you do in teaching impacts children that impact students, it is something that you're super passionate about. So every time that you sacrifice three hours of your own personal life after you're done working, that students leave, you're done working, quote unquote, done working, and then you sit down and you do something for three more hours.  Teachers care about their students, and so much is put on teachers' shoulders that it can be hard for them to make self-serving decisions. But being selfless is not often sustainable nor healthy.   Daphne Gomez: But then at some point, you reach this breaking point of I have to put myself first and that is not something that you have done in this position. I've heard of teachers, you know, staying in very extreme situations or the guilt getting so bad that they talked to therapists for five years and the therapists really were begging them you are not doing well mentally in this role. You have to leave and they would just push back and push back and say I can't leave. The students need me. I can't leave.  But they can, and they are, and for many of them, the decision is better for their mental health. Still, that doesn't make leaving easy.  Daphne Gomez: We're going to hurt our coworkers, we're going to potentially hurt students. And for people with huge hearts that go into this, to help other people that is, you know, the biggest hurdle to get over is knowing that your ACT may be selfish people may think of you differently, everything that you've done as a teacher for, let's say, you were in the classroom for 10 years, the second you decide you want to leave and become a project manager, everybody's gonna say, Oh, she's selfish. And that's hard for us to really deal with mentally. The ability to leave education might be getting easier though. The rhetoric around leaving this “forever career” is being challenged and teachers are calling out the stereotypes. More teachers are leaving because more teachers are realizing that they can leave. This means that the guilt of ‘doing it for the kids' isn't enough to keep teachers in. Culturally, we need to recognize that guilt is not a good teacher retention plan. Teachers are seeing successful examples of people leaving education all around them.  Daphne Gomez: The correlation between how people are talking about teaching, and that it's okay to leave teaching, and people actually leaving teaching in mass quantities cannot be ignored. I think that it was something that was supposed to be your forever career. The second you go into teaching, you are there for 30 years, there's not a career trajectory. And besides becoming an admin, This is going to be like what you do until you are retired. With the language around leaving education changing, mass amounts of teachers are hearing that it's okay to leave an unhealthy work environment and find work that will better serve their well-being. So there will be more openings and less teachers to fill those openings, which means that education will suffer. And hopefully nobody wants that, but that's where we are headed. Teachers are realizing that the burden of staying in education isn't theirs alone, and if education suffers, it is because of a larger failing of the community and government to value education and the those who work in education  So until the burden of keeping teachers in education gets picked up by non-educators, this will continue. And Daphne is trying to make it easier for folks to see their options, not by just challenging the rhetoric around leaving education, but by providing resources and services to help teachers leave. Daphne's company has created a variety of resources to help teachers adjust and market their skills for outside of education. They have developed a Podcast, Courses, and even a jobs board to help teachers find a good fit for a new career.  There is so much her company does to support teachers, and I asked her, based on her experience helping teachers transition out of education, what she has noticed teachers struggling with.  Daphne Gomez: It's not a valid one, but the self doubt, and even the lack of career preparedness isn't the right word for it. But I would say, the lack of experience with writing resumes and interviewing this is somewhat unique to teachers. They don't have the experience of working in corporations. So there's a lot of upskilling that needs to happen. Daphne wants teachers to have a growth mindset. There will be a learning curve in this transition, and she encourages teachers to remain humble. Yes, teaching is a difficult job, and teachers have a lot of skills that will translate well into other careers, but there will still need to be some learning, as Camile pointed out earlier in the episode. Daphne doesn't sugarcoat the reality that leaving education can be stressful but it's important to be honest and express a willingness to learn while highlighting how teaching translates into the role they're interviewing for.  The voices from earlier in this episode all had pretty clear paths to new careers. But there are teachers that just want out. Daphne warns against flailing and reaching for any opportunity, but she does emphasize that  this transition doesn't have to be a forever career.  Daphne Gomez: And then once you get your foot in the door at a company, if it's a large enough company, or something that you're really passionate about, after a few years, you can always use that as a stepping stone to pivot into a different department and get an internal promotion. It's so much more common outside of the classroom than people realize. They think that whatever this next career is, is going to be, you know, the end for them. But you're not picking your next forever career. You're picking your next starting point. When thinking about the former teachers we heard from at the start of this episode, many of them relied on some of the skills they had as teachers, but some of them leaned into the skills and interests that they had outside of education because they are dynamic human beings. Ron went into construction. Jennie leaned into her love of science, but the soft skills she developed as an educator has helped her tremendously with interacting with and explaining things to patients.  Like Daphne pointed out, the thought of leaving education leaves me with a sense of guilt. The thought of working in a different career feels a little intimidating, but I know that what I'm doing now is not sustainable.  It's been close to a year since I wrote the grant to start on this podcast, and in the development of the series people suggested that my conclusion should include a big reveal, like my declaration to leave education. That sounds cinematic, and if we've learned anything, it's that education is not a movie. I don't have any insight into what my future of teaching will look like. All I know is that I am hopeful that education can get better, but I know that unless something changes, what I'm doing now can't last.  So instead of a reveal or a declaration, I'll leave you with my advice if you want to keep people like me in the teaching profession. We need good teachers to want to stay in education, and it is not their sole responsibility to make education a place they want to stay. We need a cultural shift that values education and values educators. So, talk to teachers. Let them know you appreciate them. Listen to their stories and experiences, and don't rely on unrealistic stereotypes.  Push back on the anti-intellectualism that Ray Bradbury warned us of 75 years ago. Listen to experts. Make informed decisions based on facts and evidence. Come to terms with the fact that education should serve a diverse population of people, and if you are not okay with that, find an alternative to public education. And lastly, Vote for people who value education. Speak out against legislation that does not serve all students. And if that sounds too difficult, then know that more teachers will quit. Teaching vacancies will mount, class sizes will grow, the teachers that remain will get stretched even thinner, and rushed solutions will put unqualified people in front of your children. The diverse population of students in our country will lose out on opportunities and the education they deserve. And public education, as it was established in the US, to create a well informed populace so that we may have a thriving democracy, will suffer, which means democracy will suffer because it's far easier to take advantage of an uninformed, poorly educated populace than one that is well informed and willing to challenge and question and speak up. And it will happen not out of spite or teachers trying to prove a point. It will happen because it's a natural consequence of the current conditions people are in. So be an active part of the solution, not the problem. If need be, start small. Think about my motto from the road trip class from a few episodes back: Just try to not be an asshole. As always, thank you so much for listening. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share episodes with everyone you can think of. Word of mouth has done wonders for getting this podcast to people who need to hear it. You can also follow us on instagram at those who cant teach anymore.  This episode was produced by me, Charles Fournier. It was edited by Melodie Edwards. Other editing help came from Noa Greenspan, Sarah-Ann Leverette, and Jennica Fournier. Our theme song is by Julian Saporiti. All other music can be found on our website. A special thanks to Camile Lofters, Jaye Wacker, Shane Atkinson, Jennica Fournier, Stephanie Reese, Ron Ruckman, and Daphne Gomez for sitting down to chat with me. If you want to follow Camile Lofters on instagram, you can find her at in literal color. If you are interested in Daphne Gomez's podcast or any of her resources, check out teacher career coach dot com. And As the season is coming to a close, I want to give a special thanks to my brother Cody and my nephews Finn and Ollie for traveling around Wyoming with me to collect interviews. To the Josie family for letting Jennie and I stay with them for a month and for setting up an office for me in their basement. To my Uncle Richard and Aunt Pattie who let me set up a workspace to produce the 4th episode while we stayed with them over the holidays. To Jennie for coming up with the name and logo for the podcast and for always being my sounding board. And to Fund for Teachers for providing me with the fellowship that got this project rolling.  Again - thank you for listening, and don't be afraid to advocate for teachers so that we can keep brilliant teachers in education.  

Synopsis On this day in 1934, an excited crowd of locals and visitors had gathered in Hartford, Connecticut, for the premiere performance of a new opera entitled Four Saints in Three Acts. The fact that the opera featured 16 saints, not 4, and was divided into 4 acts, not 3, was taken by the audience in stride, as the libretto was by the expatriate American writer, Gertrude Stein, notorious for her surreal poetry and prose. The music, performed by players from the Philadelphia Orchestra and sung by an all-black cast, was by the 37-year old American composer, Virgil Thomson, who matched Stein's surreal sentences with witty musical allusions to hymn tunes and parodies of solemn, resolutely tonal music. Among the locals in attendance was the full-time insurance executive and part-time poet, Wallace Stevens, who called the new opera (quote): "An elaborate bit of perversity in every respect: text, settings, choreography, [but] Most agreeable musically… If one excludes aesthetic self-consciousness, the opera immediately becomes a delicate and joyous work all around." The opera was a smashing success, and soon opened on Broadway, where everyone from Toscanini and Gershwin to Dorothy Parker and the Rockefellers paid a whopping $3.30 for the best seats—a lot of money during one of the worst winters of the Great Depression. Music Played in Today's Program Virgil Thomson (1896-1989) Four Saints in Three Acts Orchestra of Our Time; Joel Thome, conductor. Nonesuch 79035 On This Day Births 1741 - Belgian-born French composer André Grétry, in Liège; 1932 - American composer and conductor John Williams, in New York City; Deaths 1709 - Italian composer Giuseppe Torelli, age 50, in Bologna; 1909 - Polish composer Mieczyslaw Karlowicz, age 32, near Zakopane, Tatra Mountains; Premieres 1874 - Mussorgsky: opera “Boris Godunov”, at the Mariinsky Theatre in St. Petersburg, with bass Ivan Melnikov in the title role, and Eduard Napravnik conducting; This was the composer's own revised, nine-scene version of the opera, which originally consisted of just seven scenes (Julian date: Jan.27); 1897 - Kalinnikov: Symphony No. 1 (Gregorian date: Feb. 20); 1904 - Sibelius: Violin Concerto (first version), in Helsinki, by the Helsingsfors Philharmonic conducted by the composer, with Victor Novácek as soloist; The revised and final version of this concerto premiered in Berlin on October 19, 1905, conducted by Richard Strauss and with Karl Halir the soloist; 1907 - Schoenberg: Chamber Symphony No. 1 in Vienna, with the Rosé Quartet and members of the Vienna Philharmonic; 1908 - Rachmaninoff: Symphony No. 2 in St. Petersburg, with the composer conducting (Julian date: Jan. 26); 1909 - Liadov: “Enchanted Lake” (Gregorian date: Feb. 21); 1910 - Webern: Five Movements, Op. 5, for string quartet, in Vienna; 1925 - Cowell: "Ensemble" (original version for strings and 3 "thunder-sticks"), at a concert sponsored by the International Composers' Guild at Aeolian Hall in New York, by an ensemble led by Vladimir Shavitch that featured the composer and two colleagues on "thunder-sticks" (an American Indian instrument also known as the "bull-roarer"); Also on program was the premiere of William Grant Still's "From the Land of Dreams" for three voices and chamber orchestra (his first concert work, now lost, dedicated to his teacher, Edgard Varèse); 1925 - Miaskovsky: Symphonies Nos. 4 and 7, in Moscow; 1934 - Virgil Thomson: opera "Four Saints in Three Acts" (libretto by Gertrude Stein), in Hartford, Conn.; 1942 - Stravinsky: "Danses concertantes," by the Werner Janssen Orchestra of Los Angeles, with the composer conducting; 1946 - Bartók: Piano Concerto No. 3 (completed by Tibor Serly after the composer's death), by the Philadelphia Orchestra, Eugene Ormandy conducting and György Sándor as the soloist; 1959 - Elie Siegmeister: Symphony No. 3, in Oklahoma City; 1963 - Benjamin Lees: Violin Concerto, by the Boston Symphony, with Erich Leinsdorf conducting and Henryk Szeryng the soloist; 1966 - Lou Harrison: "Symphony on G" (revised version), at the Cabrillo Music Festival by the Oakland Symphony, Gerhard Samuel condicting; 1973 - Crumb: "Makrokosmos I" for amplified piano, in New York; 1985 - Earle Brown: "Tracer," for six instruments and four-track tape, in Berlin; 1986 - Daniel Pinkham: Symphony No. 3, by the Plymouth (Mass.) Philharmonic, Rudolf Schlegel conducting; 2001 - Sierra: "Concerto for Orchestra," by the Philadelphia Orchestra, Wolfgang Sawallisch conducting; Others 1875 - American composer Edward MacDowell admitted to the Paris Conservatory; 1877 - German-born (and later American) composer Charles Martin Loeffler admitted to the Paris Conservatory; 1880 - German opera composer Richard Wagner writes a letter to his American dentist, Dr. Newell Still Jenkins, stating "I do no regard it as impossible that I decide to emigrate forever to America with my latest work ["Parsifal"] and my entire family" if the Americans would subsidize him to the tune of one million dollars. Links and Resources On Virgil Thomson More on Thomson

The most easily recognized teachers in our culture are on the big screen. So when we think about good teaching, it's almost impossible not to think of Robin William's character in Dead Poets Society standing on a desk and inspiring his students. This might be part of the problem. When teaching is associated with unrealistic Hollywood characters, it can create impractical or ridiculous assumptions about what teachers do. In this episode, we hear how the stereotypes of teachers may be contributing to teachers' decisions to leave education. Music: Theme Song By Julian Saporiti “NPC Theme” by HoliznaCC0 is in the Public Domain. “Sunny Afternoon” by HoliznaCC0 is in the Public Domain.  “Infrastructure” by Scott Holmes Music is licensed under a  CC BY-NC license. “Just a Blip” by Andy G. Cohen is licensed under a CC  BY license. “Room With a View” by Jahzzar is licensed under a CC BY-SA license. Movie Clips: Freedom Writers (Paramount Pictures) Dead Poets Society (Touchstone Pictures, Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures) School of Rock (Paramount Pictures) Ferris Bueller (Paramount Pictures, United International Pictures) Transcript:  Episode 3: “What Would Robin Williams Do?” There is a picture-day-esqu photo on my parents' fridge of me sitting on my dad's lap. I am wearing a tie-dye shirt and my orange hair is in its natural state of an Eddie Munster widows peak. My dad is in a blue button down and has on a tie. My cheeks crowd my eyes, my smile is so big. My dad, who doesn't always smile for pictures, has a cheeky grin.    This picture was taken around the same time that my dad squatted down to eye-level with me and said: “When people ask you where you got your red hair, you tell them the milkman. Okay?”   He didn't make a big deal about telling me this. It was just a directive, and I said okay. I figured, yeah, that makes sense.    So as adults would come by, ruffle my hair and say things like, “Oh my, what pretty red hair. Where did you get hair like that?”   I'd look up at them, smile, and tell them, “The Milkman.”    They would guffaw, cough down a drink, blush, and I'd try to explain, “You know, because he delivers things.”    And they'd laugh out an “I'm sure he does!” and find my dad who would have a grin settled between his bouncing shoulders as he muffled a laugh, and my mom would say something like “G-uh, Darcy Joe”   Not to be heavy handed, but the stereotypes of what a milkman may or may not do when visiting people's homes is what makes the joke land. This joke was lost on me until high school. I didn't understand the baggage associated with being a milkman.   Language matters. Words like milkman have connotations - they carry weight or have stereotypes attached to them. That's why I can't flip someone off and say, “Why are you upset,this means joy to me.” There are too many representations of middle-fingers that situate the digit as a symbol of the obscene. Repetition and representation give meaning.    The middle finger or terms like milkman or teacher, carry a history of expectations and stereotypes. Last episode we heard about the historical inheritance of teachers, which is significant in how we view modern teachers. But history isn't the only thing that impacts how we view teachers. Today, we're going to look at the teacher stereotypes in pop-culture and how these stereotypes can be contributing to teacher attrition. This is Those Who Can't Teach Anymore, a 7-part podcast series exploring why teachers are leaving education and what can be done to stop the exodus. I'm Charles Fournier. Here is part 3: “What Would Robin Williams Do?” Molly Waterworth: I've gotten to the point where I see any TV show or movie where some sort of plot device hinges on the inspirational teacher. And I just roll my eyes.   This is Molly Waterworth. We heard from her last episode, and she just left education after teaching English for 8 years. She points out a stereotype of inspiring teachers in media: Molly Waterworth:I just can't.  I can't stomach it because it's so saccharin. It completely obscures the fact that these inspiring teachers that are either drawn from real life or the product of someone or someone's imagination, it completely obscures the fact that their inspirational teaching is very likely the outgrowth of massive mental health deficiencies. And like a complete imbalance of where they spend their time and where they're getting like their soul fed. Inspiring teacher stories make me feel awful.    That shouldn't be the case, right? Inspirational teacher movies should INSPIRE. And they can and they do - they inspired me - but what Molly points to is a nagging reality in many inspirational teacher stories.    Dead Poets Society Clip   As you can hear in this scene from Dead Poets Society, Mr Keeting, played by Robin Williams, pushes his student, Todd Anderson.. And in this unconventional way Mr. Keeting helps Todd start to gain some confidence and see his potential. Similar scenes occur in other famous teacher movies, like Mr Holland's Opus, or Freedom Writers.    These movies project a fantasy of heroism onto education, and people love it. Inspirational teacher movies are usually underdog stories: A  teacher rails against convention and inspires and does amazing things for others no matter the personal cost. We are attracted to this as a culture. We want heroes that are selfless. We want to see ourselves as capable of being like Robin Williams' character in Dead Poets Society.  And the way these movie teachers influence kids…man, that's the dream.  But, several if not most of the teachers in those stories that inspire don't have the healthiest work-life balance. They give everything to their students - time, energy, love, inspiration. And these movie teachers inspire in the public comments like, “We need more teachers like this” or “I wish teachers would be more like (whatever movie teacher).” But we need to ask, what is expecting teachers to fit a stereotype asking of real teachers?   Think of Freedom Writers, a movie based on the real-life Erin Gruwell, who is played by Hillary Swank. She is the epitome of the inspirational teacher stereotype. Halfway through the movie, her husband leaves her because she is spending so much time focused on her students,  Freedom Writers Clip  The film creates a feeling that the husband might be unrealistic. As an audience, we're rooting for Erin Gruwell because she does amazing things - her husband points this out. And don't get me wrong, Ms.Gruwell is phenomenal and her story is amazing, but there might be danger in presenting this story as a precedent for what good teaching looks like. Yes, she is a good teacher, but at what cost? In most other films about different careers, it's likely the main character would realize that work is taking too much and family is more important, but not in inspirational teacher movies. Expecting teachers to do what Gruwell does is expecting teachers to forfeit their own lives for students. It's expecting martyrdom. This is a stereotype.   And the reality is different. Molly Waterworth: We're not martyrs, and we're not perfect. And there are things that can be said about the profession as a whole and certainly about individual teachers that needs improvement, absolutely. But I think a lot of it maybe stems from just this sense that teachers aren't entirely human - that we are saints. And so therefore, we shouldn't worry about all of these factors that are making our jobs harder, because we have this big calling on our lives that turn us somehow into people that don't have needs. This language that surrounds teaching is significant. It feeds the stereotype of selflessness, which in turn has an impact on how teachers are treated. Right now teachers are feeling burned out because this stereotype is unrealistic - it's creating an expectation that makes teachers want to leave education.  I met up with Rachael Esh at Welcome Market Hall in Sheridan, Wyoming on the eve of her very last day as a teacher. Rachael Esh:  It's a bit of a stereotype with teachers. It's like, Oh, this has been your calling since you were this age, or since this teacher impacted you. This idea of a calling is that you don't teach for the money, you do it for the kids because it is what you were meant to do. It is your destiny or purpose. A quote unquote “calling” can create a sense of guilt in teachers when they realize, crap, I'm not getting paid enough for this, which is in contrast to the narrative surrounding  teaching like Molly points out: Molly Waterworth: People don't get into this for the money, why would they? But they're in it for the kids, and they're in it for that sense of purpose and mission. That's like, “Yeah, but I also would like to be paid.” So to have a calling is to feel like teaching is more than a job, more than a paycheck, it is a clear directive from some higher power for the direction your life should take in service of others. Rachael didn't feel like that stereotype matched her experience. Rachael Esh: And I don't feel like that's usually the case. It's more of a roundabout zigzag pattern. This surprised me. I grew up wanting to be a teacher because, as Rachael said, I had some amazing teachers leave an impact on me, but I never thought teaching was my calling. It was something that sounded cool, and it was made cooler by movies like Dead Poets Society. I wrote the movie's motto, “Carpe Diem” on all of my notebooks. And I liked reading and writing and teaching people, and teaching would give me a chance to coach. Not once did I get the sky part and shine a light on my career path. It wasn't a calling, and of the 30 teachers that I interviewed, hardly any of them felt like teaching was their calling either. For Rachael and Molly, they had different plans with where their lives were going to go. Rachael Esh: So my undergrad I actually got at Ohio University in environmental biology, and so I thought I was gonna maybe do field work or something like that. Molly Waterworth: I declared my major as geography, but I did it with the intent of being able to go into the forest service. But I found out pretty quickly that I really didn't care about any of my classes. And I found out that I was going to have to take calculus and I wasn't interested in doing that. So I kind of bounced around into various humanities areas. And both Rachael and Molly landed in education because they each had a summer experience in college that put them in front of kids. Rachael took an internship teaching environmental education and Molly went to China with a group from college and got to help kids with their conversational English. They both found their way to being educators because of positive experiences teaching kids. Rachael Esh: So I knew I either wanted to go on to park service or education after working with kids then. And so it kind of just worked out that getting my degree in education was just more accessible, and I kind of wanted to separate my fun time, which was like outdoors, from my work. So I decided to kind of go into education. And I mean, the kids are never boring. So you're like, well, heck this. This beats an office job any day of the week. And when Molly returned from China, she declared first as an elementary teacher.  Molly Waterworth: I think that when I envision myself being a teacher, I thought of myself reading with kids, and talking about literature and talking about books and big ideas and stuff like that. And so at that point, I had the very obvious revelation that I should be a secondary English teacher because that would afford me that opportunity most often. So that was kind of my meandering path into into There was no bright light for either of these teachers, no calling. Nothing so profound. Like most people, they stumbled onto their desire to do a job because they took advantage of an opportunity and realized, “Hey, this isn't bad.” And Teaching wasn't a last option for either of them. They weren't failing at other things in life, which is tied to another stereotype of teaching. If teachers aren't depicted as martyrs, they're often seen as selfish or deviant or lazy or dumb or boring, like in Ferris Bueler's Day Off. Ferris Bueller Clip And this image of teachers perpetuates the idea that teaching is a last ditch option for people that can't do anything else. This stereotype often leads to a willingness to discredit teachers as experts in their field. Not being seen as experts in their field is a major reason teachers gave for leaving teaching.  For Molly or Rachael, they became teachers by choice. They didn't need to fall back to something easier. It wasn't a School of Rock scenario, where Jack Black's character, Dewey Finn, hits rock bottom before becoming a long term sub proving that someone with no qualifications can be a better teacher than trained and dedicated teachers - a trope that we see over and over again.  In the film, Jack Black's character even draws attention to a common saying that is tied to education.  School of Rock Clip Dylan Bear is a PE teacher in Pinedale, WY. We sat at a picnic table in front of his house with a view of the Wind River Mountain Range, while we drank coffee, snacked on a loaf of banana bread he was gifted from a student, and talked about these sayings and images surrounding education.  Dylan Bear: I think another thing, we've gotten a lot of quotes, like funny quotes in the society, like, oh, teachers, they take these jobs for June, July and August. I think that's something that needs to stop.  What Dylan has noticed is the negative lens with which culture and Hollywood has viewed teachers. Like I mentioned earlier, we stereotype teachers as good or bad, the marty/savior type that saw teaching as a calling or the boring/lazy person who saw teaching as a backup plan.  But, Dylan, like Molly and Rachael, didn't see teaching as a calling. He didn't see teaching as a fall back career either. Dylan Bear: So I started off as an engineer, and those were just not my people. And I was looking more for a little more social environment, a little more high energy versus analytical, consistently, day in and day out. And so I went from engineering to math in secondary math education because I liked working with kids. And then after a few years of that three years deep, looking at all the papers all the time, I just couldn't do it, so I switched from math. I was actually sitting in Prexy's Pasture and Laramie. And the special ed teacher came and sat down next to me and she said, What are you thinking about? Instead, there was my longboard. I said, I don't know if I can do math the rest of my life. Would you rather be teaching math or out playing a field, you know, and I thought like instantly. Dylan would rather be out in a field. Teaching was a good path for Dylan - not a calling and not a last ditch option. He takes his job seriously, and he is someone that plans on teaching for some time. And when Dylan started feeling a little burned out, he moved towns and got a change of scenery, so that he could keep teaching. He isn't naive to the reality of burning out or how difficult the job is, nor is he jaded in thinking that anyone could do this job. The key word here is reality. The reality of a teacher is that teachers are human, not a stereotype. We make mistakes and we have successes and we make some profound impacts on kids and we make some mediocre impacts on kids.  Dylan Bear: Some teachers are really good, and some are really lazy. And some kids are really good, and some are really lazy. So it's like, we don't want to paint a broad brush over everybody. And I think sometimes we do an education because there's so many people in education. It's like one of the leading job forces out there. So you hear these stories that are negative about one or two teachers, and then you say all I'm doing the same with kids. I hate when people say, kids are always on their phone. It's like, no, no, some kids are on their phones. Some of them are waiting for you to talk and give them a good lesson. I think education gets those broad brushes which devalue people. And that's a dangerous world.  Dylan recognizes the need for grace and the danger of broad generalizations of any groups. He recognizes the fact that people are human, but sometimes we only get a snapshot of education, which creates these generalizations that feed into the stereotype of teachers as either good or bad. Dylan experienced this first hand when he had a student continuously refuse to take off his hat.  Dylan Bear: I was like, This is absurd. So I'm a climber, and so he was playing badminton, and I popped his hat off and ran up and jumped up the basketball hoop and climbed in the rafters and hung it from like, the highest point in the gym, like, 50 foot up. And yeah, not very smart, but it was like, I didn't think about it, but kids Snapchatted it. And all the kids came like, “Oh, we saw you but it was out that was so funny. That it's like you have to be aware of that.”  The snapchat of Dylan only includes his climb. It doesn't include the warnings he gave the student from that day and previous days. It doesn't include Dylan's positive relationship with the student and the students' family, or all of the normal/positive interactions Dylan has with his other students, or the mundane aspects of his job that he does everyday. The Snapchat lacks context, and this is how stereotypes begin and are fed. A single image becomes the representation of the whole - even if it is a fragment of the reality.   This is the kind of thing that becomes an overgeneralization - a stereotype of teachers. These stereotypes are on social media and in movies and they contribute to cultural narratives about education that are unrealistic. Some of these glimpses and snapshots might be part of what teachers expected education to be, which is misleading and could be contributing to the disillusionment leading to teachers quitting. Here's Molly again. Molly Waterworth:  I think that the image probably came from a couple of places, a selective memory of my high school and middle school classrooms. So thinking back to those good experiences that I had as a student, I was like, “Okay, I want to create that for other people.” But I also had it in my head, the the image of the cool, thoughtful, worldly literary teacher that you see in like Dead Poets Society or any number of  other movies like that - opening up doors and exploring identity and figuring out who we are all along the way.  Dead Poets Society Clip I love Dead Poets Society, and Freedom Writers, but I remember telling my wife, after our first week in real teaching jobs: “This sure as hell isn't Dead Poets Society.” I had been fooled with what teaching would actually be, and this is also an image of what the public seems to see of educators. They want the engaging classroom, the teacher that inspires, and don't we all. Or they expect the lazy, boring, slacker who got into teaching because their real goals didn't pan out. But education is more complex than a movie.  Molly Waterworth:  The crushing reality of grading was something that I hadn't quite prepared myself for. I think that I knew going into teaching, because obviously, you know, that you're going to have to grade and that's part of the job. So the grading part was overwhelming. You never see in movies, like staff meetings, or having to figure out the copier or the deeply existentially difficult process of figuring out the culture of the building in your first year. Just the kind of mundane but deeply tangible on a daily basis struggle of making sure that everything fits in your lesson plan. Like that's not glamorous. But it's, it's the part that makes or breaks you as a teacher of just balancing the day to day and making sure that you're hitting your standards and teaching the stuff that you don't care about, but you have to do anyway. Like, Robin Williams isn't gonna do that. I would love to have a b-roll version of Dead Poets Society where Robin WIlliams' character, John Keating, sits for 4 hours grading papers, intermittently standing up to stretch, get a coffee, shake his head and mumble things like, “I swear we went over that.” Molly Waterworth: You never see an inspiring teacher movie where they are tracking missing assignments. You never see them answering the onslaught of emails at the end of the semester, asking how to get my grade up. You never see that. You see the inspiring parts and that's it. Never the work that it takes to get there. So we see teachers that either act as martyrs like Keating who, don't forget, gets fired at the end of the film after a student kills himself, or we see teachers that make real teachers cringe. Molly Waterworth:  I remember watching Glee when that was out.  And it was not just unrealistic, but it was just so I thought it was insulting the way that the teachers were showing their like, as just unserious. Too involved in teenagers' lives. And, like, really, really concerned about both of those things. That I was just I couldn't do it. I couldn't put up with it.  And again, why does this matter? Why does it matter that depictions of teachers are unrealistic? It honestly wouldn't matter if these depictions didn't seep into how teachers are currently being treated. If the cultural view of education remained realistic. But this is how stereotypes work. We may recognize a stereotype as wrong or dangerous, but they can still seep into our behavior.  And they influence what parents expect from teachers, what students expect from teachers, and even what teachers expect from themselves. If teachers buy into the stereotypes, they may be striving for a sense of perfection and martyrdom that is unhealthy and unrealistic. So it's up to us, all of us, to push against these stereotypes. Like any other cultural stereotype, we need a massive cultural shift in how we think about teachers, which often starts with how we represent and talk about teachers.  Unless we become conscious of our biases or of these stereotypes, things won't change, and in the context of teaching, teachers will continue to quit.  The misconceptions surrounding teachers and education are very much influenced by what folks see on a consistent basis. This isn't to say that there haven't been realistic depictions of teachers. I love Tina Fey's character in Mean Girls. She was quirky and smart and imperfect. Her character felt more real to me, but this is an outlier in teacher representations.  Stephanie Reese: Culturally, I think the media shows teachers as “Man, they just work tirelessly.” You might recognize Stephanie's voice from last episode. I met up with her at Blacktooth Brewery in Cheyenne, she's the general manager there. Stephanie taught PE from kindergarten to college, and she left education after 8 years. She points out how some of the perceptions of education bleed into the expectations placed on teachers.  Stephanie Reese: They just love what they do so much. They love kids. They're willing to put in all these extra hours, because they just love what they do. And they're okay with that. And, and that doesn't actually give teachers a voice. And that, to me is bullshit because teachers are tired, they're exhausted, they're stressed to the max there. Some may love it. And fine. If you have that intrinsic motivation to love something without getting anything back. That's amazing. You are a superhero.  When being a teacher is associated with loving kids as Stephanie points out, does that mean that leaving education means a loss of love for the kids? Or that not wanting to put in the extra hours is because teachers don't love the kids? This rhetoric is dangerous and it isn't helpful when thinking about why teachers are leaving. When teachers decide to leave education, they often hear, “You can't, you're so good for the kids” or something to that effect. This is said in praise, but it actually ignores what teachers are dealing with and it pushes this cultural stereotype that teachers ought to be willing to give everything for the kids. The reality is, the list of what teachers do, the extra work teachers have, is tremendous and all of that work rarely makes it into films. Here's Dylan. Dylan Bear: It's funny when you asked me to do this, I looked up, like, what are the job requirements for teachers and there was like, on the, on the description, it was, like 30 bullet points. It was incredible, like, lift 50 pounds, walk 100 yards. When Does anyone do that? We think teachers are just this, like square. But it's not, it's this open ended job that you can work your tail off forever, you know, or you can do the minimum and you still get paid the same. So it's like, I think a lot of people want to know, like, here's your job, and here's what you're gonna get for it. And that's not the case in teaching.  And that list of job requirements is long and ambiguous and continuously added to. A big portion of what it means to be a teacher isn't simply “to teach” or “to inspire.” It's to manage a huge amount of expectations, which doesn't often get included into the stereotype of teachers, and if it does, it's only for a moment.  Stephanie had strong thoughts about what teachers are expected to do.  Stephanie Reese: This isn't going to be a positive one, Charles, I hope that you're not like, brace yourself, right? I'm not gonna sit here and say, oh, yeah, teachers are here to inspire teachers are here to you know, try to spark some sort of love or interest in something and help every single kid and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like all that sugar coated shit. Fine. That might be the case. But to me, and I know a lot of teachers who agree, it's babysitting. So our roles are just sit tight, do your best, try to get in something that's worth value. Or maybe try to teach his kids to be decent human beings.    The stereotype often clashes with the reality of teaching. Still many teachers try to live up to the inspiring teacher stereotype, which can be contributing to the sense of burnout lots of teachers are experiencing.  Many teachers, whether they intended to or not, have wrapped their identity around education, which is kind of a cultural expectation - they are one with the school. This can make being in public and trying to have a personal life kind of awkward especially in small towns.  Rachael Esh:Anywhere we would go. I'd be like, I can't go there. All my kids are gonna be there, you know? Or like, do you want to go bowling? No, I don't want to go bowling. So I have to talk to seven of my students online, like no, like, you know, so there's just places that I don't even want to go because I just get bombarded with children. Which is, I love them. But you know, you want to like, be away from work for a while and you're like, I've done this all day. I want adult time. It's adult time now. they'll walk by when I'm having a beer. I'm like, don't, don't you look at me.  The teacher advocating for healthy boundaries or focusing on mental health in a genuine way is not a common teacher stereotype in pop-culture. This has only started bubbling up more recently on social media with teachers and former teachers drawing attention to their struggles in the classroom. There have even been some new television shows that have started to address what teachers are struggling with. They are pushing against the stereotypes. This kind of representation can help restructure how we think about and discuss teachers.  Seeing teachers as stereotypes either creates standards so high it is absolutely unrealistic or we are creating a villain to be a scape-goat for all of our worldly problems. Both of these images are contributing to teachers leaving the profession, and both of these images are very common cultural tropes. To break free from stereotypes, we need to first recognize they are there and how they are working.  I teach about stereotypes when I teach rhetoric. One of my favorite lessons to teach is about binary opposition. We get to address stereotypes and how we, as humans, often categorize ideas and language into this or that, and how such categorization is often a logical fallacy.  Here's a quick look at how the lesson goes.  I start by asking students what a binary star system is, then draw it on the board. Binary stars are two stars that orbit each other. They rely on each other for survival. If one dies, the other dies. In this binary, one star is larger than the other, it carries more weight. Even so, if the other star dies, the larger star will also die.  How we categorize language and ideas is similar. Things are good or bad, and we often privilege one side of that opposition. And we wouldn't know good without bad. The poet Wallace Stevens wrote, “Death is the mother of Beauty,” which means, without death, we wouldn't know beauty.  At this point, a few of the students are nodding, others are usually staring, but as I move around the room, their eyes all follow me. This is when you know that you've got ‘em. Now, I move to the board again and ask the students to picture the perfect and stereotypical 1950s couple. I give a few seconds - they don't need long. Then I ask, “So, who are they?” Right away, students establish a white, able-bodied couple, made up of a man and woman. This is when I turn my back, marker ready, and say, “Okay, tell me about the woman.” They yell over each other rattling off the same image of a blond-haired, blue-eyed woman with a light color poodle skirt, wearing minimal makeup. She cooks, cleans, and takes care of children. Her only vices are gossip and the occasional cigarette. I then have the students describe the man. He's tall, has dark hair, wears a dark suit, and works in an office. His vices include drinking, smoking, fighting, and adultery.  In less than two minutes, my students always describe Don and Betty Draper perfectly. Then we continue with other opposing stereotypes under men and women. We agree that these are stereotypes as a class, but I point out that they came up with these opposing lists in about 5 minutes total. It takes that long because I can't write as fast as they yell out ideas. I tell them, even if they don't believe in these stereotypes, they are ingrained in their brains because of the culture in which we live, and if they're not careful, they might unconsciously let them dictate their behavior At this point, I pause the class and take a different colored marker and circled  qualities on both sides of the list. Then I tell the students, these are things that make up who I am. I have a lot of qualities under both men and women circled: I cry more than my wife, I am emotional, I like to cook, I'm terrible with vehicle maintenance, but I am also a woodworker, I was an industrial ironworker,  I've been in fights, I was a college wrestler. We talk about monoliths, and the reality that in a binary, most people live in the gray. We're not one or the other, and that doesn't make us less-than.  Even so, we tend to categorize ideas based on binary opposition.  Thinking back to the binary of men and women, I ask the students who is good and who is bad. Kids argue and defend, but we don't have a consensus. Then I ask who wears what on a stereotypical wedding day. Men wear black, black is associated with bad. Women wear white, which is associated with good, (which is problematic in its own right).  Inevitably one of the students says this isn't fair.  They're right - it isn't. That's the danger of binary logic, of assuming things are either good or bad. It creates an all or nothing scenario and double-standards.Binary logic is a fallacy.  Now, if we only think of teachers as either good or bad, we are forcing them into unrealistic stereotypes.  When teachers are associated with being martyrs, saints, nurturers, or people following a calling, and if all of this is seen and represented as good, then as soon as a teacher doesn't want to give their life to education or be like the teachers in the inspirational movies, then there is a cultural damnation that they must be bad or selfish or deviant or lazy or mean. It sounds ridiculous, but teachers are either leaving because the expectations for being a teacher are more than what they're willing to give, or they are seen as lazy and unintelligent. Either way, teachers are leaving as a result. As my students point out every single year, binary logic is simplistic and unfair and most things aren't simple enough to be one or the other. But, this is often how we interpret the world, it's good or bad, Democrat or Republican, wrestling or basketball. You get the idea.  So what can be done? As I said earlier, we need to first recognize that there is a stereotype and why that stereotype might be dangerous. Then, the next step would be to listen to real teachers and be able to differentiate stereotypes from reality.  The way teachers are talking about leaving education is not cinematic, it's real, and it's happening.  Unlike the stereotype, real teachers are listening to their friends and family.  Molly Waterworth: And I was talking about it with Ryan, and he was like,” Molly, you cannot keep teaching. You just can't because it ruins it ruins you emotionally.” And I'm like, Yeah, you're really right because I live for months with just dread, dread, and exhaustion. And you don't want to see anybody that you love feel that way. And it sometimes it takes that external viewpoint of like, No, this is wrecking you to to actually recognize that like, Oh, this isn't just something that I feel internally terrible about. It's obvious to other people. So this is a problem. They realize that education doesn't have to be a life sentence of martyrdom.  Rachael Esh:  I've given this job and these kids everything that I have, and I don't have anything left. And that's just the reality. And it's like, I had to pick myself over them. And it's, it's like, I love them dearly, and I care about them. But I can't put my mental health on the backburner for the rest of my life.  When people decide to become a teacher, I think everyone thinks like, oh, my gosh, you're a teacher, and you're going to be my kids teacher. And you're going to be a teacher forever. And like, that's your, that's your identity.  I've always felt like  this wasn't necessarily my forever career, like some people have. I was like, I'm gonna do this and I want to see how it goes. And the first few years, I was like, yes, like this is, this is my jam. I'm learning so much. I just started thinking I was like every year is just the same. I'm like  a permanent sixth grader, and I was like, I am not the kind of person that can stay in a job for 30 years if I don't have any room to grow in it. I just started seeing that cycle. And, when summer comes, it's like, such a huge relief. And then when you start going back to school, just the anxiety about thinking about that already. I was like, no, I would rather have a job all year that I am not going to be completely stressed out about.  What I heard teachers tell me is that they are dynamic humans, not cultural stereotypes. I feel that too. Teachers live in that liminal gray space in-between, just like everyone else. They are neither wholly good nor bad. So it would be great to see a cultural shift, teachers included,  in how we discuss teachers - it can start by framing them as complex humans rather than cultural tropes. This will include allowing teachers to voice concerns they have about the profession, so that things can be addressed and we can keep great teachers.  Now, a common cultural reaction to this last statement and to teachers airing their grievances in general, is to say that, “Well, they're just whiners.” So, if this was your reaction, it is a good time to review that lesson on binaries. If you thought the teacher sharing a concern was a whiner, then it seems like  you would prefer that teacher to remain silent. To, in essence, be a martyr. But just like binary logic, expecting teachers to be martyrs is not helpful and is based in stereotypes.  So it would be worth reflecting on our own stereotypes about teachers, and try to humanize them. They really are just humans. But if folks continue to struggle to separate real-life teachers from the stereotypical, dramatized, fictionalized, news-worthy, or social-media teachers, we'll continue to struggle with holding onto brilliant teachers who won't fit into the restrictive categorization.    Next time, we will talk about the purpose of public education. Many teachers are leaving because our country cannot reach a consensus on what public education is for and who it's for.  That will be next time on Those Who Can't Teach Anymore. Thank you for listening. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share episodes with everyone you can think of. This episode was produced by me, Charles Fournier. It was edited by Melodie Edwards. Other editing help came from Noa Greenspan, Sarah-Ann Leverette, and Tennesee Watson. Our theme song is by Julian Saporiti. All other music can be found on our website. A special thanks to Rachael Esh, Molly Waterworth, Dylan Bear, and Stephanie Reese for taking time to sit down and chat with. This podcast is funded in part by the Fund for Teachers Fellowship. With movie clips from Freedom Writers (Paramount Pictures), Dead Poets Society (Touchstone Pictures, Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures), School of Rock (Paramount Pictures), Ferri Bueller (Paramount Pictures, United International Pictures)  

Wallace Stevens was an ungainly insurance executive, but his poetry is serene and secularly reverential. In particular, his poem “Sunday Morning” seems to suggest that the rhythm of the natural world—if we give it enough rapt attention—is as good as any chant or prayer. But can a return to nature worship solve the problem of nihilism, once monotheism has been eclipsed by modernity? Are memory and desire as permanent heaven, and can the poet become their high priest? “Sunday Morning” is a poetic dialogue about these questions. And whether or not we're satisfied with its conclusion that the world is nothing more than an “old chaos of the sun,” the poem itself is an orderly and beautiful form of communion. Thanks to our sponsor for this episode, MasterClass, where you can learn from the world's best minds--anytime, anywhere, and at your own pace. This holiday, give one annual membership and get one free by going to masterclass.com/subtext. Subscribe: (sub)Text won't always be in the PEL feed, so please subscribe to us directly: Apple | Spotify | Android | RSSBonus content: The conversation continues on our after-show (post)script. Get this and other bonus content at by subscribing at Patreon or directly on the Apple Podcasts app. Follow (sub)Text: Twitter | Facebook | Website

Wallace Stevens was an ungainly insurance executive, but his poetry is serene and secularly reverential. In particular, his poem “Sunday Morning” seems to suggest that the rhythm of the natural world—if we give it enough rapt attention—is as good as any chant or prayer. But can a return to nature worship solve the problem of nihilism, once monotheism has been eclipsed by modernity? Are memory and desire as permanent heaven, and can the poet become their high priest? “Sunday Morning” is a poetic dialogue about these questions. And whether or not we're satisfied with its conclusion that the world is nothing more than an “old chaos of the sun,” the poem itself is an orderly and beautiful form of communion. Wes & Erin discuss.