Podcasts about tony you

In this episode of Chat By The Pitch, we connect with Tony Cavalle and Gavin Mole of Dallas Surf — a club that's rapidly redefining youth soccer in DFW. Tony shares the origin story of Dallas Surf, while Gavin breaks down how the club is building its player DNA from the ground up. We talk structure, coaching education, technology, and the long-term vision that includes a unified coaching style and a full developmental pathway. Whether you're a parent, coach, or club leader — this is a blueprint worth hearing.

Every firm has distinct principles that guide its approach to financial planning. In this episode, we take you behind the scenes to explore the core values and unique processes that set our firm apart. We'll walk you through how we get to know our clients on a deeper level, create personalized financial strategies, and how our approach redefines what it means to have a successful financial planning experience.   Important Links: Website: http://www.yourplanningpros.com Call: 844-707-7381   ----more---- Transcript:    Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, we're going to talk about what makes Tony's process and the team's process unique at Tax Doctor, Inc. Let's talk about that this week here on Plan With The Tax Man.   Hey, everybody, welcome in to the podcast. Thanks for hanging out with Tony and I for a few minutes, as we talk investing, finance, and retirement. On this episode, we're going to maybe walk behind the scenes just a little bit, talk some core values, things of that nature, on what Tony and his team do at Tax Doctor, Inc. I thought it would be a good idea to refresh this a little bit. I think we probably talked about this stuff once or twice before over the last couple years of doing the podcast. But it's important I think, to go back to some of the roots, if you will. Some of the basics, if you will. We're going to have a little conversation with Tony.   What's going on, my friend? How are you doing this week?   Tony: I'm doing well. Getting ready to start the week, and weather's still looking good here.   Speaker 1: Yeah.   Tony: Everyone is happy.   Speaker 1: Well, we're taping this the last week of October, dropping it on Halloween. So Happy Halloween! Get your candy on.   Tony: That's right, get your costumes and candy.   Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite candy? I'm in my 50s now, Tony, but I still have a favorite candy. Do you?   Tony: Still the favorite, which I think is the number one for Halloween, and that's Reese's.   Speaker 1: Okay, all right. Yeah. That's one or two. You see it goes back and forth. Snickers, I'm a Snickers guy. I think those are usually the top two right there.   Tony: Right.   Speaker 1: I don't know, black licorice.   Tony: I was just going to say ... Go ahead.   Speaker 1: I was going to say, I was going to ask you a question about black licorice. Do you eat it? Have you ever eaten it?   Tony: I have never eaten it. In fact, oh, it's bad.   Speaker 1: Right?   Tony: To me.   Speaker 1: I don't even know, why do they still make it? Does anybody like it? I don't know.   Tony: Somebody must like it.   Speaker 1: They must. But I have never met anybody, in all my travels, that likes black licorice. Hey, if you like black licorice and you're checking out the podcast, shoot us a message, let us know. I'd be really curious to find out how many people like black licorice.   Tony: I would, too.   Speaker 1: But anyway, you were going to say something?   Tony: I was going to say I just heard, it was actually on the way to work, I don't know if this accurate, but it was on Sirius XM. They were saying the estimated spending on Halloween this year is approaching $11 billion.   Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy?   Tony: Between the candy, the costumes, and all the parties. Boy, that's just a big number.   Speaker 1: Isn't that nuts? That's just nuts.   Tony: On a day that just really you go out, and beg for treats, and get scared.   Speaker 1: Well, I think with the craziness of the world all the time, sometimes we just have to hang on to some of those few traditions, and some of those things that maybe just give us a little fun, a little reprieve, a little whatever.   Tony: Yeah.   Speaker 1: I guess it could be worse. But yeah, that's some crazy ... I think Valentine's Day, too. Crazy numbers that come in on Valentine's Day.   Tony: Yes. That's another one, yeah.   Speaker 1: It's pretty wild.   But anyway, let's get into our topic this week. Tony, let's talk about your core values. What mission statement, if you will, or to go Jerry Maguire for a second here, if you were writing out a mission statement about your patient process, what is the core principles that you and your team try to exude?   Tony: Yeah. Probably the biggest one is we take the approach that you have to do all of your planning with I call it tax-centric or tax in mind. One of the biggest things that people I think lose track of, even though they're always complaining about all the taxes they pay, is taxes over your lifetime are one of the biggest expenses you'll ever pay. You want to make sure, in your planning process, that you're taking all that into account. I think that some advisors don't do that. Obviously, some of them don't have tax backgrounds, which is why they don't do that. I think that you need to use that in there with your process because that is going to make a big difference on that end goal and number.   When we're working through our plans, we always are trying to keep that in mind. Every time we meet with clients to go over their plans, we're discussing that as well. I think if you don't get anything out of this podcast, make sure that you are doing that in your own situation, because that is real key for us.   Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's an interesting point because not to say that advisors who aren't also CPAs are tax-focused are doing a bad job.   Tony: Exactly.   Speaker 1: But you do have to have this other layer of you're working a financial professional who says, "Okay, here's the things we're doing. Now run that by your CPA to make sure everything's groovy." Granted, to be fair, a lot of financial advisors are very tax smart and very tax efficient. But you have that extra layer there, as a CPA, CFP, and an EA. Of course, it gives you the ability to not only think about it now, which I guess would be the CPA side, but then also the future looking tax implications, which is marrying both of those worlds.   Tony: Yeah. I love 401Ks and everything else, and tax deferred savings.   Speaker 1: Sure, sure.   Tony: A lot of people that are accumulating large balances in those tend to forget that they have an IOU to Uncle Sam toward the end.   Speaker 1: Yeah.   Tony: Now with the new rules, when you die you have to take it out faster and things, it's just something to think about when you're planning.   Speaker 1: Yeah. Let me ask you a question, Tony. I don't know if I've ever asked you this. Which one were you first? Were you a CPA first, or a CFP first? Were you an accountant or a financial advisor?   Tony: I started out as an accountant.   Speaker 1: Okay.   Tony: Early on, when I was working for somebody else, this was 30 years ago plus, all the partners got to talk about all the good stuff. We were just the grunts, if you will. I always wanted to do that-   Speaker 1: The adding machines, yeah.   Tony: Yeah, yeah. We were the operations, and they were the people that got to talk with the clients, and do all the things, and the planning.   Speaker 1: Right.   Tony: I wanted to be that. This was well before even the CFP stuff, and financial planning was even a thing.   Speaker 1: Gotcha.   Tony: It just was one of those things, "I want to be able to do that." That's how I got into it, way back in the day.   But yeah, in answer to your question, I was an accountant first.   Speaker 1: Okay. Again, the role of the CPA typically, it's revisionist history. They're doing their job, they're doing their job well. They're looking at the tax situation that's just expired, the past year. They're going back, and they're helping you do all that kind of stuff. I think by having that hat, and then moving yourself into the CFP, it probably gave you a really interesting and unique approach, which is probably why you set your business up the way you did. To say, "Look, I want to do this not only for the current calendar year, but we've got to be tax efficient through all the years moving forward because that's really where we're going to make a real dent." Is that a fair assessment?   Tony: That's a fair assessment. With tax clients, we already know, at least on the financial side, a lot about them, doing their tax over the years.   Speaker 1: Sure, yeah.   Tony: You know where they're at. You can even back into what they have or haven't saved. It's easy to have conversations about, "You need to start thinking about," say for example, retirement. "Oh, by the way, we have to try to do it tax efficiently." That's how the conversations generally start. If they're not working with somebody, then that's when we will introduce ourselves and say, "Let's try to put something together."   I think most planners are this way, especially us. If people have an outside relationship, we are definitely not out there trying to step on anybody's toes, or steal clients.   Speaker 1: Right, right. There's enough folks out there.   Tony: Number one, it's not good business ethically.   Speaker 1: Yeah.   Tony: It's not good if somebody else is doing a good job. We're basically looking at the tax clients and others that don't have that.   Speaker 1: Sure.   Tony: Or some of the people have retired, or they don't hear from them, that kind of thing, is where we come in.   Speaker 1: Well, I think the new numbers ... We've been hearing for a while now that, it was what 10,000 Boomers a day retiring. We've been hearing that for a couple years. Well, I think now, in 2024 going in 2025, I think it's now at maximum peak. They're calling it Peak 65 that's been making the rounds on some of the media lately, you might have saw that. It's 12,000, I think, people a day are eligible for retirement. That's a huge number. Granted, that's globally. But still, that's a big number. Plenty of business to go around, to your point.   Tony: Yeah.   Speaker 1: There's no reason to go poaching, so to speak.   Tony: No.   Speaker 1: Let's talk about customization and client education. How do you help clients build that strategy and make those informed decisions? Because education clearly is a big piece of this. Some people really want to come see a professional like you, Tony, and say, "Okay, teach me what I don't know, help me understand this stuff." Others will come to you and say, "I don't care, just handle it."   Tony: Right.   Speaker 1: You have to balance that customized plan to, I guess their individual wants and needs, as far as even just knowing the information.   Tony: Really, right off the bat, before we even agree to work with someone is, after we've had a conversation or two and they want to move forward, we basically have them in, and we go through ... It is basic. There's literally 10 or 12 things. We just have them check a box saying, "Does this thing worry you?" Then we score it. Then based on that, I don't show this to the clients, but I basically say, "Yeah, you probably do need some help." Or, "You've pretty much got everything under control by the way you answered this." Then I'll ask them, "Why are we even talking?" But most of them have some anxiety and some pain, so we start there.   Once that's determined, then we go into the plan. Of course, we use software, like most everybody does.   Speaker 1: Sure.   Tony: Then we have some more detailed things to try to get to know them. I always tell people, just like your doctor, I'm uncomfortable with recommending things until I know more about you. I've got the tax stuff.   Speaker 1: Yeah.   Tony: I need to know what some of the emotional stuff is. Your goals, what you want out of life, and all of this, before we can make recommendations. Because I think a lot of people think all we sit around and do is make recommendations, and mine could be further from the truth.   Speaker 1: Yeah. Pick this stock, pick that fund. Right, yeah.   Tony: Yeah. Not it.   Speaker 1: That's definitely not the case. Well, Tony, you said something a minute ago. Let me expand on that. You've been doing this for 30 years, in different capacities. You've been in the financial services world. If somebody walked in for their initial consultation, and handed you their files, their basket of stuff. Like a lot of advisors and professionals who've been doing this a long time, I imagine that you probably could look it over, and probably pretty quickly, within five or 15 minutes, have a rough idea of what they should or shouldn't be doing. But to your point about, "I don't know you yet," that's not the best way to give a recommendation. Could you do it because you have the skillset? Yeah, you probably could.   Tony: Yeah.   Speaker 1: But you need to learn more about ... You can see all the data, but now let's find out about who the person is. I think that's the real happy marriage in that relationship.   Tony: It is. Once you design a plan for them, and I walk them through it on a basic level. We don't like to talk in jargon, or anything like that. We just set some goals. No different than you'd do, whether it's your business, whether it's your fitness. We monitor those goals and say, "Where are we?" When we meet again, are we progressing toward that goal? Or has it changed and we need to reassess?   Speaker 1: Yeah.   Tony: Because that'll tell us a lot about are we in the right things, as far as investments go, to meet those goals. Or maybe, we need to switch things up. Really, I like to call us we want to be the financial quarterback of your financial situation. Yes, we're going to have some investments in there and some different things, but we want to make sure you're covered from start to end. And not only investments. It could be charitable giving. It could be you're under-insured. It could be you're concerned about putting things in trust for some grandkids, things like that. It gets people talking about some things that sometimes they never thought about, for sure.   Speaker 1: Well, that really brings me to my last point, which is how do you value, or how do you assess success for your clients? Yeah, obviously we could go with the basic financial metrics.   Tony: Right.   Speaker 1: That's pretty much a given. Hey, is the plan solid? Is it going to get you ... "We've run the numbers, you're going to be able to make it until 99 before running out of money," or whatever, something like that.   Tony: Yeah.   Speaker 1: But what other metrics do you guys use to measure success for a client?   Tony: Well, besides that stuff, which is a given, we have some little charts that we call the Client Happiness Charts. We have clients fill this out at different times along their journey. Then toward the end, when they're retired. Because we want to make sure that they're checking of the boxes that really matter to them, as far as what they consider success. For some of them it's "Hey, I'm now able to travel, I've always wanted to do it." For some of them it's, "I've got this little menial job, I love going to it." There's about 25 of them there.   As we go through the process, it's fun to see, especially if somebody started say in their 30s. We've had a few. I pull them out, they're now retired. To show them, "Well, here's what was important back to you back when you were 35, this was 15, 18 years ago. Now look what you're doing." Just show them the progress.   That's what gives us the most joy, is to see them doing what they want to do. Obviously, some of that takes money, and that's the whole point of trying to grow it. It's that, and making sure that they understand how much they can take out each year and not outlive their money, because that's a big issue with all of our retiree clients.   Speaker 1: Yeah. To your point a second ago as well, are you happy with all the other different pieces? Have we addressed and dealt with the legacy conversation?   Tony: Right.   Speaker 1: Just checking off the bucket list stuff. There's all these little pieces that go into valuing or measuring success for the client. Is it a pleasant experience? Do you look forward to coming in, and talking with your advisor? And saying, "Yeah, I feel like we're buddies. We don't hang out and go to dinner together, but I feel like we have a good rapport." I think that's really important in a lot of business relationships in life, but certainly when you're talking about your money.   Tony: Absolutely.   Speaker 1: With your doctor, too. Some people dread seeing their doctor because they don't like their personality. It's like, well, maybe get a different doctor so that you can have a conversation with them that you're going to take to heart, and it also resonates with you. I think same thing financially. If you go see an advisor, and they don't click with you, and they're giving you good information but you just don't like them, and therefore you don't follow through with it or do anything, you're just wasting your own time. You know what I mean?   Tony: Exactly. Yeah.   Speaker 1: It's important. Good stuff. Well, good conversation, man. Thanks for hanging out with us and chatting a little bit about what makes you guys unique. People in general are unique, so every situation's going to be different. Certainly, there's those big generalities, Tony, that affect all of us in the financial world. Social security, and taxation, and inflation, and blah, blah, blah. All the big core tenets that we have to deal with, that's certainly a part of the game that we have to run through. But every person's little puzzle is different from the next. You and I are completely different people, so our strategies are going to be different.   If you need some help, get on the calendar. Have a conversation with Tony and his team. Or if you're already working with him, and you've got some friends or loved ones that maybe should have that chat for themselves, let them know. Let them check out the podcast. Or just reach out to Tony and his team at yourplanningpros.com. That is yourplanningpros.com for a complimentary consultation and conversation with the team at Tax Doctor, Inc.   Tony, thanks for hanging out, my friend. Good conversation.   Tony: All right. We'll see you next time.   Speaker 1: Always appreciate it. Of course, it's Halloween as we're dropping this, so happy Halloween to everybody. Stay stay and sane. Don't forget to get out there and vote, because it's just around the corner. We'll see you next time here on Plan With The Tax Man.   Securities offered through Avantax Investment Services SM, member FINRA, SIPC. Investment advisory services offered through Avantax Advisory Services. Insurance services offered through an Avantax affiliated insurance agency. Investment strategies discussed in this episode may not be suitable for all investors. Please consult with a financial professional.

Episode 93: Family Genetics That Lead To The Need For a Liver Transplant For Tony Burdette   On this episode of This Thing Called Life, Andi will speak with Mr. Tony Burdette, who will discuss his involvement with organ donation. Tony's life was saved in August 2019 via a liver transplant. His father passed down a genetic disease called alpha-1 antitrypsin deficiency to him. He was diagnosed in the early 1990s, with symptoms including exhaustion and low platelet counts. Tune in for his great story.   Episode Highlights:  Tony had never given much thought to organ donation, but sometimes it takes a crisis to bring it to the forefront of your mind. Tony's father underwent a liver transplant in 1997, but it was a painful experience since, after 14 hours, the surgeons came out and told them that he probably wouldn't survive. But, happily, doctors were able to get it to work sufficiently, and he received a second transplant two days later.  The hereditary condition does not impact everyone. They can live perfectly well without it. However, something triggered Tony's liver in early 2019, and his liver began to fail rapidly. Tony had all the excess fluid in his body, common for people with liver failure. So, he had to have the procedure called a thoracentesis, and over seven months, he had to have that procedure done 52 times. Tony couldn't keep having these procedures every other day. So at the University of Cincinnati Medical Center for evaluation at the Transplant clinic, he was put on the list rather quickly around the beginning of May and received his liver on August 3rd, 2019. It was a quick illness for Tony and a painful one, but thankfully his transplant and the surgery were very successful. He was discharged from the hospital just five days later without any complications. Tony has a brother. He obviously has the deficiency, but he hasn't had any symptoms so far. He is under the care of a GI, and they are keeping close tabs on him. Both of Tony's children have a deficiency as well, and they are under the care of the liver transplant team at children just out of precaution. The doctors check them every year and have liver scans done to keep a check on them and make sure everything is ok. About three weeks after Tony's transplant, he received two letters in the mail from elementary-age girls who wrote him a letter and said that they just wanted to let him know that he had received their mother's liver. Tony has studied music at the University of Cincinnati College-Conservatory, one of the greatest in the world, and it is such an honor to be accepted there. Tony is the artistic director of an organization called Aviva Voices Choral Organization. It's an organization that he founded, and it provides high-quality community choirs for children, youth, and adults. The program's cornerstone is the brand new work for a course and orchestra called the breath of life, and it was written actually before the pandemic. Often, being open with what you are going through can impact other people. When Tony was going through all this, we posted periodically about this on social media as encouragement for people. Tony encourages people to not be afraid no matter what you are going through in life. Be open, share, and find people that you can talk to and know that your story can impact people.   3 Key Points: Alpha-1 antitrypsin is an enzyme and it is created in the liver. The deficiency is that the enzyme gets trapped in the liver and creates a deficiency in the lungs. But when that enzyme gets trapped in the liver, it can cause liver damage. Tony has spent his whole career serving as a professional musician, singing professionally with opera and orchestras around the country, and doing a lot of conducting with choirs and teaching singing. Tony's concert's date is Saturday, April 30th, the last day of the month and the last day of donating life month. The concert is taking place at Christ Church Cathedral, which is a huge, beautiful venue.   Tweetable Quotes: “The dichotomy of organ donation is that, a life has to be lost in order to give life, but it's also a beautiful thing of sacrifice.” - Tony “You never know how donation and transplantation will work, but Tony thinks it's probably healing in many ways for both the donor family and the recipient.” – Andi “One of our core values is to be able to use the power of music to shed light on important things, and when we started this organization, we said that we wanted to have at least one concert once a year.” – Tony “Creating a free concert is based on the theme of life, the celebration of life, and use it woven together with stories. And the interesting thing about it is to bring awareness and make people aware of the power of organ donation.” – Tony “We are a core organization, and we specialize in classical music. You don't have to be affected by classical music or anything because there will be various music.” - Tony   Resources Mentioned: LifeCenter | Website | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube|  Twitter Andi Johnson  website |LinkedIn  Organ Donation Website https://www.vivavoices.net/about/ https://www.facebook.com/tony.burdette.5

Sean: Now, I want to put a little twist in our conversation and ask you, were there some people who in your past you have mentored and you talked with and given advice to and then ultimately ended up earning the business or hurting the business? What do you think would be the number one factor for businesses that fail? Tony: You could say luck. Some businesses have failed because it was just bad luck. But they weren't listening. They weren't listening to what experts were telling them, be they trend forecasters, finance directors, or clients. One of the things we used to talk about actually was having healthy paranoia. Now, I don't know if there's such a thing as healthy paranoia, but it meant that you did worry about things if it's too quiet. Why is that? And I think you have to take the pandemic out of it and all of that because nobody had a training manual for that. But I think more often than not, you haven't read the rooms, you haven't smelled what's happening in the air. You've ignored the advice. You've not trusted how things are going or you just haven't changed quick enough communications. You know, look, we have social media. It's changed the way we operate in every single way. Things like the pandemic came along and changed the way we operated entirely. There are so many scooters on the road now delivering food. It's affecting the landscape. It's all these things that can make you make really poor decisions. There was the space race and the Americans spent something like $10 million developing a pen that could work in zero gravity. And the Russians gave their astronauts a pencil. You kind of go, there's a little bit of that. How do you react to the way the market is going? You know, you can't just sit there and go, it won't affect me. We won't do Internet banking. People will never do it. Well, they will. We don't want mobile phones. Yeah, we do. People are going to want big screens on this. No, they're not. Listen to the early adopters. See what's going on in the market. You cannot keep pretending it won't change because it will. You have to embrace change all the time. That would be my number one thing with anybody who doesn't want their business to fail: to embrace change. But before you even think about doing it, always check. Does the world need another one? That's the difficulty of people who, you know, have their hearts set on things like restaurants or bars. This is a lovely business, but you can fall out of fashion very, very quickly. Sometimes there's just nothing you can do about it. Apart from going, does the world need another restaurant? But they might need my restaurant. And that's what's lovely about entrepreneurs. The problem for entrepreneurs is that they start with a dream and a vision and they end up fixing it. And that's what they have to stop trying to do. They've got to get out of doing it and go back to their dream and their vision. I think that when businesses can fall apart, the vision is no longer achievable either because you lost sight of it or just the market pivoted and you were not in that pivot. - - - Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/leadershipstack Website: https://leadershipstack.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/leadershipstack Leadership Stack Merch: https://leadershipstack.com/shop/ - - - Tony Harris Website: https://strayrhino.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tony-harris-8ab54a91 Book: https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-101-Tony-Harris-ebook/dp/B09WXR9Q2N

On this week's show, we'll answer some mailbag questions that have come in. We'll discuss if you should pay off your house, financially support adult children, and how often you should communicate with your advisor.   Important Links:  Website: http://www.yourplanningpros.com Call: 844-707-7381 ----more---- Transcript:  Speaker 1: Back for another edition of Plan With The Tax Man, with Tony Mauro, from Tax Doctor Inc. We're going to talk, well, actually, email questions this week. We haven't done an email show for a while, so we're going to take some questions from folks that have sent stuff into the office, or the website at yourplanningpros.com. That's yourplanningpros.com. You can get your questions asked and answered, and get yourself some time on Tony's calendar to sit down and talk about your retirement situation, or your tax situation. Tony is a CPA, CFP and EA of over 27 years experience, and a great resource for you to tap into here. Well, he's got clients all over the place, but his office is in Des Moines, so reach out to him online at yourplanningpros.com. What's going on, my friend? How are you? Tony : I'm good. Enjoying the summer. How about you? Speaker 1: Doing the same. Hanging in there, rocking and rolling. Well, actually, about the time we're going to drop this, it's going to be probably right after 4th of July, so I hope that you had a good 4th of July. We're taping it ahead of 4th of July, but we're dropping it after, so hopefully you have a good one. Tony : Yeah, yeah. Hopefully everybody out there is going to get out and get a chance to enjoy the summertime. I like the summers the best. Speaker 1: Any 4th of July plans, both since we're ahead of time? Tony : Not much for us this year. Probably just relaxing around home a little bit. Maybe playing a little golf, and watch fireworks. Yeah. Speaker 1: There you go. Sounds like a plan. Yeah, we got some family coming in. We'll be around the pool, hot dogs and burgers, and all that good stuff. Classic 4th of July for us. Anyway, hope everybody has a good one, and had a good one, I should say by the time you're catching this podcast. But let's go ahead and take some email questions, Tony, from around the area, we'll have a fairly short podcast this week, but we'll see if we can help some folks out. We got an email from Tony, and it was not you. Tony : Yep. Speaker 1: But Tony did say, "Hey, Tony, I'm hesitant to pay off my house, because I don't have many other tax deductions at this point, but I do have a hundred grand on the bank, and only owe 45 grand on the house, so I'm really tempted to pay it off. What's your thoughts?" Tony : I'd tell Tony to pay it off. Speaker 1: Yeah? Tony : I'll tell you why. A lot of people get hung up on, "I don't have any other tax deductions," and they don't realize how, especially with only a $45,000 mortgage, how little their tax deduction really is, if even they can use it on the federal side, because they don't have a lot of other deductions. This particular deduction goes on a schedule A, and there's a threshold you have to get over, which is, for singles $12,000 and some change. If you don't have other deductions to get you over that, you won't even be able to use it. I would say that even if, let's say your mortgage interest, for example, is $2,000, $3,000 a year on that, probably even be [inaudible 00:02:37] by now, your tax savings, if you're in a 20% bracket, maybe $600 versus, I don't know how much you're spending on the mortgage, but let's say your mortgage payment's $800 a month, times 12, that's $9,600 a year. I'd rather have that in my cash flow, and build that a hundred thousand back up. Then keep letting that money grow. Speaker 1: Yeah. Tony : That's my philosophy. I'm not a big debt guy. Especially, I like to not have a lot of debt, and I advise people not to carry a lot of debt. Speaker 1: Now, the tax deduction- Tony : Obviously... Oh, go ahead. Speaker 1: Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off there. The tax deduction part of this question is a moot point right now, correct? Tony : It is. Speaker 1: Yeah. Tony : Yeah, it is a moot point. I think that you're better off long-term, is snowballing your cash flow, and it won't take you long to recoup the money, the $45,000. Then it's just all gravy from there, and you're out of that debt. But obviously, you can't do that if you're a young person going out, and just buying their first home, generally. Speaker 1: Right, right. Tony : But you could try to pay it off early. Speaker 1: Well, this is always an interesting question, when we get something like this, Tony, because first of all, okay, he's probably still sitting on a pretty nice rate, right? Tony : Sure. Speaker 1: He's got a $100,000 in the bank, he owes $45,000, he's probably paying like 3%, is my guess. He's probably had this mortgage for a while. It's probably before the rates started going back up. Many people do find themselves wondering, "Well okay, right now, even at in a CD I could get 5%, is it worth doing a short-term CD, or something, and getting more than I'm losing on the house? But to your point, there's the emotional factor, and he's so close that it's like, "Well, all right, maybe this difference is not that massive," that it's not draining you down too much. I think that's always the math. Then you do all the math, and then you add in the tummy factor to go, "Just how much better would I feel not having the mortgage on my head?" Tony : That's right. Speaker 1: Yeah. Tony : That's right, and multiply that out over the number of years. But at the end of the day, yeah, it's the math, and it's pretty easy math to do, you just got to lay it all out. Speaker 1: Yeah, very true. All right, well great question, Tony. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast, and congratulations on being in such great shape as well. $45,000 on the house is, obviously, awfully fantastic. Whatever you do there, certainly kudos for that. Of course the team's going to reach out to you anyway, since you've submitted the email and has. But for other folks who are in a similar situation, that's why we share these emails, because if it's happening for one person, it's probably happening to another somewhere. That way, if you've got a similar question, you can run the numbers specifically for yourself by reaching out to Tony and his team at Tax Doctor Inc. You can find them online at yourplanningpros.com. All right, let's go to David. David says, "Tony, I'm positive that I have more than enough money saved to last the rest of my life. There's just no way I could spend it all. I'm not bragging, I just find myself to be in a blessed position. Is there any advice you'd give to someone like me, or can I just coast, financially speaking?" Tony : Yeah, I would say to David, not knowing any more than what you've submitted, I would say, and this is a little bit of a fun response, but prove it. What I mean by that is, congrats on the fact that you think you've saved enough, but maybe get some advice from your advisor, or someone else, put in some numbers to it just to see. Because one person might say, "I have enough to for the rest of my life," and that could be a million. Another person, it may take 10 million. You just don't know, because it depends on your spending habits, and what some of the things you want to do are. Then of course your longevity, and everything else. I would just maybe double check it. Get an opinion, and then if that verifies it, then I would say work the plan you've got, and then you could be, quote, on Easy Street the rest of your life. But maybe you might find something that you didn't think of, and you might have to rethink a couple of things there. Speaker 1: When it comes to situations like David's, always good just to find out for sure. He says he knows, and he's not bragging. I guess my first question, when I see stuff like this, Tony, is, well, how do you know for sure? Is it because you've done the math, and you've run it out? He may be right. Is it because you've sat down and talked with a professional, and you have a written plan and a strategy that you know you're fine? Or are you back of the napkin this? Now granted, I don't know David. If you're sitting on $40 million, you probably are good. Tony : Absolutely, yeah. Speaker 1: But if it's the age-old question of, "Hey, I've got 2 million bucks," or, "I've got a million bucks," or whatever, "I'm in great shape." Maybe, right? Tony : Maybe. Speaker 1: There's so many variables. I hope that you are in a great shape, and I would say, to find out if you could coast, just sit down and have a complimentary review done, and find out. Run the numbers, make sure. Stress test it for multiple scenarios, whether if you check out our prior podcast, whether something comes up like a medical issue, or something. There's just lots of things that could come up and derail you. Just have them stress test it, Tony. That's one of the things you guys do. You can run various scenarios in case he is incorrect or correct. Tony : We can, yeah. With today's software, on the financial planning side, you can easily take a portfolio, and run run the numbers, ask him a few easy questions on how long would you like to run this for, and your life expectancy type thing. Give me a rate, a good conservative rate, and the software is going to spit out and say, "Your chances of outliving your money are only 5%, or maybe it's 0%." In other words, you've got enough money, based on what you've told it, you are right, or maybe you aren't as as you thought. Speaker 1: Yeah, very true. Especially when it's complimentary, and it's easy to do, no reason not to get a second opinion on the strategy you have in place. Great question. Thanks so much for listening to the podcast. We certainly appreciate it. All right, let's go to Kate. Kate's got a tough one here. She says, "Tony, my son's 27 years old, hasn't landed a legitimate job since he finished college four years ago. We've been supporting him, car insurance, cell phone, that kind of thing. I'm not going to be able to continue to do this much longer; in a couple of years I plan to retire. How do I cut him off without making this a big problem?" That's a tough one, right, Tony? Because there's a fine line between helping and enabling. Tony : There is. That that's a tough one, and it comes a lot down to how you think. My personal opinion would be, well, a couple of things, I guess, is if he's 27, he's been out for four years. I don't know what legitimate job means. Is he working at all? But let's say that he is, or if he isn't, well then that that's a different problem, then you probably are enabling him, and not forcing him to find something. But if he just is working, and maybe not making the money he thought he was going to, or whatnot, then I think by helping him, maybe you're not enabling him, but at some point you have to have a tough conversation. Just explain it to him that we need to start weaning you off, or cutting this back. Maybe you do it in steps to help him out, rather than just pulling the rug out from under him. There are things that people can do. I tell my own son this is, there's easy ways to go make more money. One is just go work more, trade your time for money. If you have to do it to pay your bills, you'll find a way, generally. That's a little bit more of the tough love, I guess you could say. Speaker 1: I agree, Tony, and I think a lot of times, what happens to people in this situation is some people will come in to see you, and sit down for a planning process. They'll say, "Hey, we want to enjoy our retirement. Whatever's left over, the kids get." I think, to me, that's the healthiest approach. Others will say, "We want to leave them a bunch," and others will say, "We're doing something like Kate's doing, and we're doing a ton of helping." But at some point, you start to sacrifice your own retirement, and the success of your retirement plan. Maybe Kate's plan has gone from all this helping, has gone from 100% surety for her own retirement, her and maybe her spouse, down to 80%. Is 80% good enough for you? If you keep helping him, if it goes down to 70% chance that you're going to be okay in retirement, is that acceptable? At some point, we have to not help our kids to the detriment of our own life. Because what's going to happen is, Kate, you're going to end up on his couch at some point. It's going to flip. [inaudible 00:11:18] Right? Tony : Yeah, it's going to flip. Speaker 1: Then neither one of you're going to be happy. It's tough. Tony : It is. I've seen it. That happens, and I don't understand it. I see it with clients, and even some family members, that are still helping their kids, and they're 30 years old and married, and they both have jobs. It isn't like they're destitute. I could see if your child, and I would help my kid as well. Speaker 1: Yeah, we all- Tony : He falls on hard times, everybody's going to help him, but with some constraints, and some, maybe, rules, and whatnot. I don't think you want to let them get to a point where they know that, or maybe they don't know, but they just feel like, "Well, Mom and Dad's always going to be there, no matter what." Which we are, but most of us probably want to stay in the background, only help if you really fall on tough times. I think some of these young people, I don't know, I just feel like they're just freewheeling. I think they need to do a little bit more to help themselves. If, truly, he's in a profession, he's not making the money he wants. He's young enough, he certainly can go out and find something new, and maybe even retrain, go take some classes. Speaker 1: Yeah, and to your point, you started to touch on something there, and we'll move on to the next one. But also, does he know how badly he's affecting your retirement, Kate? If you're not being honest with him either, and you're just helping him, and not saying, "Hey, listen, we need to have a chat, because this is what it's doing to us." He may be, like, "Oh crap, I didn't mean to do that. Let's make some changes." Tony : Absolutely. Speaker 1: It's got to be communication in there, as well. Lots of things to think about. Great question. Tough spot to be in, Kate, but I think you're probably doing yourself, and him, a service by starting to cut this off, in some form or fashion. But anyway, always talk with the professional, make sure, also, again, another reason to run the review, Tony, to make sure that Kate's own retirement is not in bad peril from the help itself. Tony : Exactly. Yeah. Speaker 1: All right, final one this week. Laura says, "Tony, I like my financial advisor. I enjoy the podcast, so I've been listening. It's nice to listen to you guys. I'm reaching out because, well, they're hard to get in touch with. I rarely get phone calls returned, and I just wonder if my account is not large enough for him to pay attention to me. I've got about $350,000 with him, and I believe most of his clients are doing considerably better than I am. Is this a common problem within the industry?" Tony : In some cases it might be, but to dissect it a little bit for Laura, it depends on how much, since I don't know how much you're trying to get ahold of him, because some clients tend to think, in his corner on this, defending him a little bit. But just basically, if a client thinks that they need a call every week, every two weeks, just to discuss market conditions, that might be, and hopefully you're not that way, but generally, then they get mad when the advisor won't call them back. Speaker 1: Sure, that's a little unreasonable, because you've got tons of clients, but- Tony : It's unreasonable, yeah. But at the same time, he or she should, when you decide to work with them, be very upfront about the communication, how much of it is going to happen, and how often, because often that way everybody's on the same page. Speaker 1: How often you [inaudible 00:14:45] meetings and stuff like that, right? Tony : Yeah. You're just setting expectations. Speaker 1: Yup. Tony : If they haven't done that with you, or even if they have, and you're just talking about what I would consider probably once a quarter type of call, when you're getting together and reviewing things, even if it's every other quarter, so twice a year, then I think that they should at least be cordial, and prompt enough to, if not return the call, get your questions answered somehow, whether it be a quick Zoom call or email. Speaker 1: I would think, Tony, in a situation where, maybe the client's being a little unreasonable, and again, we don't know that Laura is, we're just talking speculation, but if a client is being unreasonable, someone on the staff is probably going to be reaching out anyway saying, "Look, we've addressed this conversation, or whatever. We just don't have the manpower, or whatever, to every single time. That's what the plan is for. We got to stick with the plan." If you want to schedule a review, that's a different conversation, I guess. But yeah, I think a lot of people find themselves in this situation with advisors, or they've been with a firm for a while, and unfortunately I think there is some truth to the size of the account. Sometimes it's not a big enough account for them to jump up when, maybe, a random call does come in, versus a scheduled one. Think about the size of the firm, Tony, you guys are what I would call a boutique firm, versus- Tony : I would say we're boutique firm. Speaker 1: Yeah, versus a giant big box with 35 advisors in a building, four story building, or something like that. Because that's what you choose. You want a small boutique firm. Some clients are looking for that, because there they do feel like they're a name, not a number. Maybe Laura's working at a firm where she feels more like a number. I don't know. Tony : She could be. If the financial advisor's doing, what I feel like they should be doing, is that when a client calls in, they may not be able to jump right on the call, but- Speaker 1: Of course not. Right. Yeah. Tony : But they should have a staff in place to say, "Okay, well, let's schedule a call for this date, and then let me know what we're going to be talking about." Then we jump on a call, and we do it. But I think some advisors, it is true out there, where they institute minimums, because it is a business at the end of the day. Some advisors have this stigma of, "I can't really make any legitimate living unless my clients have X with me." Speaker 1: Right. Tony : That, I think, is to the detriment of everybody. But I understand, because there are people out there that, and there's nothing wrong with it, because you got to start somewhere that, I want to open up a $2,000 IRA this year, and I want weekly meetings, and we want to discuss. Most advisors are going to say, "Well, that's just not profitable for me. Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not the right business model for- Tony : ... at the end of the day. Speaker 1: Yeah. Tony : Yeah. Speaker 1: That's the other piece of it too. That's the expectation conversation you brought up. Tony : Yes. Speaker 1: Not only when you go to sit down with someone is the expectations about the meetings, and how often you're getting together and discussing things, and the strategy and the plan, but also, is it a worthwhile business venture for both? I think a lot of times people are auditioning an advisor, they don't realize the advisor is auditioning them right back. It's got to be a good relationship both ways. Tony : It really does. When we interview clients, we basically, we'll sit them down in a room, by themselves, with a sheet of paper. It's got about 10 or 12 questions on it, and they'll just rate themselves, and we say, "We'll be back in 20 minutes." Then we come in, and start discussing, and I'm auditioning them as well. I'm looking for landmines. Speaker 1: Yeah. Tony : I'm looking for, "Do they really have some pain that they need help with, or want help versus I just want somebody to talk to, type of thing?" Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, you can't help, literally, every person. Tony : You can't. Speaker 1: You'd love to, but at the same time, your business model is that boutique firm. There's only so many hours in a day that you can see people. Tony : That you can do it, yeah. Speaker 1: But I would say with Laura, $350,000 is not $3,500. Tony : No, not at all. Speaker 1: I would say it's a substantial amount of money, I think, to anybody. They should at least be getting back in touch with you somehow, and scheduling calls. Tony : Yeah. Speaker 1: Because I don't think that would be right. Okay. All right. Well, great questions and of course, obviously, Tony and his team are going to reach out to everyone, and have reached out to folks that sent these emails in. But if you've got similar questions, or you feel like you're in a similar boat, reach out to Tony and his staff, and have a conversation for yourself. Get set up with a time to come in for a complimentary review with the team at Tax Doctor Inc. You can find them online at yourplanningpros.com. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Google, or Spotify, which you can find at the website as well. Again, it's yourplanningpros.com, and you can drop an email if you'd like as well. We take some from time to time, and ask him here on the show. But either way, reach out to a qualified professional, like Tony, he's been helping families for many, many, many years. He's a CPA, CFP, and an EA, and he's here to help. Tony, thanks for hanging out, buddy, and answering these questions. I always appreciate your time. Tony : All right, we'll see you next time. Speaker 1: Yep, absolutely. We'll see you a little later on, in July. In the meantime, enjoy the summer, and we'll catch you later on Plan With The Tax Man.   Disclaimer: Securities offered through Avantax Investment ServicesSM. Member FINRA, S.I.P.C. Investment advisory services offered through Avantax Advisory Services. Insurance services offered through an Avantax affiliated insurance agency.

--Important Note!-- Please bear with me if this soundscape isn't mixed all that well! I just upgraded to Windows 11 and my audio seems to be sounding different than it used to, so I'm getting used to it! Looking to submit an idea for my next soundscape? The form links can be found here: https://linktr.ee/Kaila_Falcon --Story— (Story written by me! For more stories like these, check me out on Wattpad: https://www.wattpad.com/user/Kaila_Falcon) **** It was rainy. Stormy, too. It's on nights like this when you simply curl up in bed, watching the rain patter against the window, the vastness of darkness almost comforting. Laying there, listening to the sound of the rain and distant thunder, accompanied by whatever news channel was reporting at this hour out in the living room, a new sound pricks your attention. It's a soft series of footsteps - growing closer by the second. And when a tired and bleary eyed Tony Stark makes his way into your view, your heart can't help but feel sorrow. “You alright?” You murmur the question, voice so soft, you're surprised that he even acknowledges you with a slight shake of his head. “Nothing's been the same since New York,” Tony starts, his tone solid, but wavering quickly. Patting the side beside you, your fiancé silently complies, gaze locking with yours. “You experience things and then they're over and you still can't explain them? Gods, aliens, other dimensions… I'm just a man in a can.” He pauses, seeming to contemplate his next few words. “The only reason I haven't cracked up is probably because you moved in, which is great. I love you, I'm lucky, but honey, I can't sleep.” There's a genuine sadness and fear in his eyes - something that you haven't completely seen until this very moment. “Threat is imminent and I have to protect the one thing I can't live without: that's you.” Passing Tony a watery grin, you simply wrap him in an embrace, pulling him down into the sheets with you, keeping him close even as time begins to wear on. “I'm not going anywhere, Tony…” You murmur sleepily, hoping that he'll actually sleep tonight now that he'd gotten some of his concerns off his chest. Cuing up the Spotify app on your phone, a soft assortment of calming piano tracks begin to play. And soon enough, you find yourself drifting, accompanied by Tony's soft snores, the rain, distant thunder and the soothing music. --Info-- I own no rights to any sounds used in this video! I simply just compiled them into this soundscape! The image is also not mine! This audio is great to play in the background to help sleep, study, or simply relax! Spotify Playlist containing all of these songs + the songs from my other soundscapes: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6rYvhk6bYhwhrXXLieCtvZ?si=9160cac69e614505 --My Socials-- My Linktree (Containing my socials + Contact info + Idea submission forms + other awesome, free stuff!) https://linktr.ee/Kaila_Falcon

In this month's Q&A chat, I spoke with Phil Colgan, the Senior Minister at St George North Anglican Church in Sydney, and one of Sydney's most gifted preachers. Here's an edited transcript of our conversation. I kicked things off by asking Phil what he was preaching on at the moment.Phil: As we're coming out of lockdown we thought we'd do something that's just really encouraging for people and it's proven that way. We've been preaching on the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5. And I've found it an incredible joy, because I've been moved to think how I've seen the fruit of the Spirit growing in people over the 18 years I've been at St George North—seeing the way people have grown in love, have grown in gentleness, have grown in showing kindness to one another.It's been an incredible encouragement to reflect on the work of God's Spirit through the teaching of his word over the time of our ministry here. It's a challenge as well because Galatians 5 also has that verse 25 about walking in step with the Spirit or following the Spirit.Tony: Is there a fruit of the Spirit that you felt challenged about as you were doing your prep? I always find when I'm prepping to teach or preach something, God sometimes slips a dagger into my own heart and convicts me from the passage I'm reading. Have you found that?Phil: Well, it's funny. It has been the same couple of fruit of the Spirit that have challenged me every time I've read Galatians 5 since I've been a Christian, which is patience and gentleness. They are the two. And for some reason, whenever I think of patience, I can immediately have something I need to repent of within the last 24 hours.Tony: Oh Lord, give me patience and do it quickly! Phil, you are a solid and well known part of the fellowship of Sydney Anglican evangelicals here. In fact, I'd probably regard you as my friend who is probably the best connected amongst Sydney Anglicans. We're all part of this fellowship but you just seem to be one of those people who knows people. You're part of the central diocesan structures a bit, you get involved in the committee work, but you're also out and about and you know lots of ministers and seem to have your finger on the pulse.And so I thought it would be a helpful question to ask for the sake not only of people who are listening here in Sydney and are interested, but many of our friends all around the world who know about Sydney and its Anglican evangelicalism—if you were going to do a little mini SWOT analysis of Sydney Anglicanism at the moment, what would you are our strengths and weaknesses and opportunities and threats?Phil: Well, when you look for those opportunities and threats and that sort of thing, that's a helpful thing to do—though with something as wide and complex as a diocese I sometimes wonder if it is that helpful. Sometimes I think every church should be thinking about that in their local area, which is actually a distinctive of Sydney Anglicanism, isn't it (our congregational nature)?But I think our opportunities, our threats—they tend to be the same at every point; they just vary by degrees. And for me at the moment, the opportunity in Sydney for ministry is the opportunity of evangelism. We have the most wonderful news in the world and millions of people that need saving. We have this incredible situation of an Anglican diocese with a couple of hundred churches that faithfully preach Jesus, thousands of lay people ready to serve.I think that is a peculiar thing about Sydney in the Anglican world and that is our opportunity. But although some say, "Oh, the fields are dry and the fields are hard”, I actually think we are at a point where people are more open to the gospel than at any point in my Christian lifetime. Some are more antagonistic, but I think they're a small number who are represented in the media and so forth. In my part of Sydney, which is incredibly multicultural, I think people are just open to talking about Christian things. We're seeing loads of people connecting with us at the moment through our evangelistic efforts. And I think it's a great time.Most Westerners now don't have the cultural baggage of cultural Anglicanism or cultural Roman Catholicism. They're not immune to the gospel. They haven't been vaccinated. And for me, that's a wonderful situation. I think we're entering a great time. So that's the opportunity and that's the challenge in Sydney I think—it's not to lose sight of the main game. And to take that opportunity in the diocese of Sydney, the challenge is to mobilize our resources I think—to mobilize our lay people, be focused on training and equipping lay people, and challenge our lay people and our gospel workers to have the right view of this city: that it's a harvest field, and we are all missionaries and evangelists in the diocese in Sydney.The other issue is property. Can we better use our property to reach the city? Can we have churches to plant out in these massive growth areas of Sydney?But in the end, the challenge is: don't get distracted. Let's keep the main game, the main game, and keep putting that in front of people. That to me is the opportunity.Tony: What do you think we get distracted by?Phil: I think one distraction is thinking that everything is really hard and that evangelism's hard—because that often means you switch from bold gospel proclamation to defensive posturing, which I think is a danger for conservative evangelicals. We get worried about protecting our rights and protecting ourselves and that sort of thing. Or we switch to thinking that we have to apologise for the gospel and so forth, rather than just getting on with that task of proclaiming Jesus.Tony: Sydney's a big place. It's about 5 million people or thereabouts. Andf we have a generous kind of definition, there might be... let's say there are 150,000 born again, evangelical Bible-believing Christians in Sydney. If that's the case, by my calculations, we're kind of at the 2-3% mark, and then there's 97% of this vast, great city. I think of Nineveh, that great city in which there are 5 million people who don't know their right hand from their left (as it says in Jonah). Not to mention the many cattle of course in Nineveh, but not so many cattle in Sydney.Phil: A lot of cavoodles after lockdown.Tony: Yes, if it was being written today, Jonah would conclude with “And many cavoodles”! But it is a great challenge to think about just what a lost city Sydney is, and how much opportunity there is for the gospel. In terms of the threats to us or the weakness for us as Anglicans, do you have any reflections there?Phil: If I was to put down one threat, I would say that it's to respond to that great need by conceding too much to our world in a desire to be relevant. I think that's always the threat. And at the moment I think that is a threat for us, and I feel that temptation every time I preach. God is sovereign, but in my weakness, I do fear for our next generation. I wonder—have we been and are we preparing them well enough to stand up and believe and love biblical truth in a world that's now calling it evil rather than irrelevant, whether it's the truth that Christ alone is the way of salvation and there is no other way; or whether it's the truth on human sexuality, or the truth on gender and all these other issues.I see that as a threat. I fear sometimes that we haven't done a good enough job with that generation. And I think our real challenge is to just teach those truths boldly to help our young people (and our older people for that matter) to be proud of Jesus and his word. That's the word I use: to be proud of the gospel; to actually stand up and be proud of it rather than apologise for it. The gospel is the answer, even if our world mocks it.Tony: It is in many ways a challenge of unbelief. It's losing your confidence and boldness in the truth of the gospel and the truth of Christ and thinking that in some way we have to soften it, accommodate it, refashion it. And look, I understand that instinct very well. And it's why in a sense I'm sympathetic—or empathetic perhaps is the better word—to liberalism, because liberalism is that impulse. It's that sense that we're not relevant; that the world is moving on and they don't believe what we believe anymore. And so we need to jettison some of the harder edge stuff; we need to conjure a message that's more respectable, more acceptable, more comfortable in a way, one that we don't feel uncomfortable to speak. Or one that when we do speak it, we don't feel like we're standing out and saying something radical or revolutionary. That's the impulse. And I think we all feel that impulse in our hearts. And while we might feel horrified about the liberal theology that jettisons the resurrection and so on, and think that we would never go that far, we still feel the impulse that you're talking about—to accommodate and compromise in order to receive a better hearing; to be “all things to all men”.Phil: Yes, but being all things to all men is about how you live. It's about your actions. It's not about what you preach.Tony: Exactly. I think it was at the Nexus Conference a few years ago, David Williams had this wonderful one-liner. He pointed out that in 1 Corinthians 1-2, Paul was utterly and absolutely inflexible about his message. In fact, Paul says, I've got all these other people who want to hear this, the Jews want to hear that, the Greeks want to hear this. I don't tell them anything they want to hear—I tell them this instead: Christ crucified. And they think it's either weak or foolish, but that doesn't bother me, because God uses this supposedly weak and foolish method. That's his power and his wisdom. So I never change the message.So Paul is utterly inflexible on his message, but in his person, in his behaviour, in the packaging of who he is, he's flexible as anything, because those things don't matter very much. And so David Williams said: We contextualize the messenger; we don't contextualize the message.Phil: I think that's a wonderful way of putting it. And I think it actually captures the logical flow of 1 Corinthians.Tony: I mentioned Nexus just now. You've taken over from me at Nexus—you've deposed me in a boardroom coup, and have shuffled me aside and you are now in charge of Nexus.Phil: I am, I am. And actually we are doing a Nexus Refresh, coming out of lockdown, where Kanishka, the new Archbishop of Sydney, and I are speaking. It's in early December and praise God, we can come together as people in ministry in Sydney and be refreshed by God's word. And what I'm going to try and speak on is actually that it's as we think of the task before us—that's the most refreshing thing to be reminded of what a great gospel we have to preach and what a privilege it is to do it. That refreshes me far more than any day off or any holiday..Tony: Indeed. And that's really what Nexus is, for those of you who haven't heard of Nexus. It's basically a little fellowship of Sydney evangelicals, mostly Anglicans, but evangelicals in Sydney who are in gospel ministry—refreshing and pushing each other forward for this great task. So it's great that you are taking it on and pushing that forward. And I'll certainly look forward to seeing you there in December. When is it in December?Phil: Friday, December 3.Tony: If you just look up nexusconference.com.au you should be able to find the details there. Phil, every now and then, when I put out a Payneful Truth, you very kindly zip me a little email. And after I did that little series on apologetics a few weeks ago, you wrote in with some enthusiasm. We've kind of being dancing around that subject in what we've just talked about, but I know it's a subject that you are exercised on. What's important about apologetics or what's wrong with apologetics in your view?Phil: Well, yes. I loved what you said. And for those who haven't read it, I encourage you to read the two Payneful Truths that Tony put out on it (see here for part 1 and part 2), because you crystallized something for me I've been blundering around on for some time. I'm all for apologetics in some senses, but some modern apologetics makes me feel really uncomfortable. And I've been trying to work out why that is. And what you crystallized for me is that whatever apologetics is, and there are things that it is, it shouldn't be trying to make the gospel seem rational and reasonable to a person with a worldly worldview. That's the point I got out of it.You've mentioned 1 Corinthians 1-2 already. The wisdom of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. That shows you that as you preach the gospel, if a person hasn't had their world view transformed by the word through the Spirit, they are going to think it's foolishness. So it should never be our intention to make a person who doesn't come to trust in Jesus think we are rational.One of your categories of apologetics was what you call ‘positive apologetics'. And I found that a really helpful category. You said that there is some legitimate ‘positive apologetics', as we how good the gospel is, and show how the gospel makes sense of the world.But the thing is that the gospel will never be seen as good for you if you think this world is all there is, right? You can't make a person think the gospel is good for you if this world is the end and there is no God. It's only when you accept there is a God who is righteous, who created the world. It's only when you accept that there is a heaven and a hell that the gospel is good—otherwise it's foolishness. So any apologetics that's trying to say the gospel is good for you even if you don't share our view, I think has missed the point.All of this sent me back yet again to 1 Peter 2, which for me is the key passage of the scriptures on this question. And in particular 1 Peter 2:12. (I've got my Bible open on that page, you'll be pleased to know.) It says: Conduct yourselves honourably among the Gentiles so that in a case where they speak against you as those who do what is evil, they will by observing your good works glorify God on the day of visitation.And as you look at that, and then the flow of thought that goes through to being ready “to give a reason for your hope” in chapter 3, the argument is that the greatest apologetic is living a godly life. As you live out a godly life, you also set out the gospel plainly, as you give a reason for your hope. But what 1 Peter shows you is that they won't understand you. They will call you evil. And you'll reason with people (what you called, I think ‘responsive apologetics' or something like that). You'll reason with people, and you'll then try to show the rationality of the gospel, the historical evidence, and so on. And you'll always do that with gentleness and with respect—1 Peter makes that very clear.But someone who then doesn't repent and believe is unlikely to think you're rational and is unlikely to think you're reasonable. And that's where I want us to say that being Christian in our world should be a conundrum to people. On the one hand they go, "He's irrational. His logic doesn't seem to work. He believes in a guy who rose from the dead 2000 years ago and says he's the answer to everything. He's a bit crazy.” But they also say, “And yet he's so gracious. And he is so gentle and he is so loving. And he is so patient. I can't help wanting to listen to him.”But you see, when we try to remove the conundrum by trying to make it rational and reasonable in the world's terms, it's actually as bad as removing the conundrum by not being gentle, by not being gracious!Tony: That kind of dual way in which the world thinks about the behaviour of Christians and what they say, in the end it is only resolved on the “day of visitation”, isn't it?Phil: Although we pray they resolve the conundrum prior to the day of visitation because we give them a reason for our hope and they come to know Christ.Tony: Yes! In the whole discussion about apologetics and the gospel—which I've been thinking about a lot over the past 12 months—it has really come home to me how we've often we get it back to front. So often these days we spend ages on the ‘softening up period', trying to connect with people, gain traction for ideas, present some metaphors that might connect with them, find some common ground, say ways in which the gospel is good—all kinds of things to try to ease them up towards the terrible moment when we give them the bad news that this is gospel about Jesus dying for your sins and rising from the dead.It strikes me, we've got that the wrong way around. We'd be much better if we led with Jesus and the resurrection of Jesus (in light of our good behaviour and our reputation for being the kind of people who live differently). We then tease through their questions and answer their questions and respond and interact and explain, and do the responsive dialogue style of interaction—having told them what the gospel is that makes all the difference, rather than keeping that in reserve for some future point where we might eventually get to telling them.Phil: I think what you're saying is absolutely right in what I'd call the personal sphere. I don't have the answers for the public sphere where you only get a sound bite. And sometimes the sound bite you want to give is just to commend the gospel. That's why I'm very slow to judge anyone who gets lauded or pilloried by the media or by the world in that sense.Tony: It's a very artificial environment, isn't it?Phil: Yes, but I think it really helps if we have that attitude of what is first and foremost important.I had another thought about all this, and it's just a thought bubble for me at the moment. As you got to your final category of prosecution or ‘kategoria' as you called it—I don't think we do enough of that in our preaching. I fear that if we do too much of the other types of apologetics in our preaching—if we do too much apologizing—then you actually create a church that's in constant need of being argued into its faith. I think our preaching should go more on the offensive, be more prosecutorial.And that goes back to what I said before—we should be prouder of the gospel. And so I think more of our preaching should say, "Brothers and sisters, this is what you believe—isn't it wonderful? Look at how foolish our world is. Look at how much better our world view is than our world's.” And I wonder if we did more of that, then we'd prepare our people better to be not apologizing for the gospel, but ready to express the power of the gospel—to sort of crack through to the world. Anyway, that's just a thought bubble I've got. I've got to be careful though, it's not just about rationalizing my personality.Tony: Your belligerent personality, Phil? I think we always have to be careful of rationalizing our proclivities towards particular kinds of approach.Now, part of the format of this thing is that you also get to ask me questions. So have you got anything that you are wanting to throw at me at the moment?Phil: Well, yes. As I thought about that, I thought, “Tony's my book guy; he's one of the few people I know who is a genuinely published author”. So I thought not including your own books (or perhaps you can!) is there a book you would want everyone to read? What would it be for pastors and then for people in our churches—what would be the one book you'd say, you must read this?Tony: Oh, gee, that's a hard one. The one that's in my mind at the moment that I think everyone should read and come to terms with is David Seccombe's new book, The Gospel of the Kingdom: Jesus' Revolutionary Message—which as it happens is right in the ballpark of all the things we've just been talking about. It's David's attempt to try to summarize what the gospel is, and to connect together the gospel of the kingdom that is so prominent in the Gospels and the gospel of justification and Paul and all that kind of thing, the gospel of the cross and forgiveness. And the way he weaves them together using his research in Isaiah and in the Old Testament and in biblical theology—is just brilliant.Like all good books it's got its angles and its things that you scratch your chin about every now and then—but on the whole, it's excellent. He argues that the resurrection is the culmination of the gospel message—not just a denouement, or a kind of a footnote or a sort of wrapping up of loose ends. The resurrection is where it all comes together. In line with the kind of conversation we've been having, he argues that the resurrection is our message, the resurrection of the crucified saviour, who is now the Lord and rules all, and who calls on everyone everywhere to come to him for forgiveness of sins and to enter his kingdom and live with him as their Lord.That's our proclamation. It's the proclamation of the risen Christ who is saviour. And the way he draws and ties all that together and challenges the way we often think about the gospel just really brilliantly done. It pulls together a lot of the thoughts that we've all been having over a number of years in a really helpful way. So I'd recommend The Gospel of the Kingdom by David Seccombe. It will shake up and clarify how you think about the gospel in the most helpful way. I would say for pastors, definitely that's the book to grab and read at the moment.And for thoughtful lay readers? David's book is not written in an overly technical or obscure way, so also go and grab it.But if there was one book though that I was going to suggest that every Christian should read for their Christian growth—a book about the essence of the Christian life and how I can grow in it—I think I'd recommend Paul Grimmond's, Right Side Up. It's just a brilliant book about what the Christian life is and how it proceeds, and probably the most under-rated book I ever published in the time I was at Matthias Media. I think it's a book every Christian should read at some point—Right Side Up by Paul Grimmond.Phil: I've always been amazed it didn't get more airplay. It has always seemed a perfect book to hand to a new Christian as part of a follow-up course or to do with young Christians.One last question for you, Tony—what topic would you like to see a book written on at the moment? Is there something you wish either that you could have the time to write a book on, or that you wish someone else would write a book on?Tony: Okay. I'll throw out a few, because I've got a long and large ideas file, and some of these are things that I'm going to do, God willing, in the future. But if someone wants to get to them first and do it, then please do. I'll mention three. Is that okay?Phil: Well, it's your podcast.Tony: Hey, so it is! Why I'm I asking you permission?I have thought for a long time that it's funny that we've never really written an outstanding or widely used book that explains the gospel using Two ways to live. We've got tracts various things—courses and videos—but not a book. The closest we came was when Dominic Steele did his Introducing God course, and he turned the content into a little book that you could give away. But it didn't take off massively and didn't become a go-to evangelistic book. That's a book I'd love to write sometime, or if someone wants to beat me to it—go for it.The second book I'd really love to see written is one that I am going to target fairly soon. And that is all the research I did about one another ministry and the word ministry of every Christian. You mentioned before how important you think it is to train and equip every Christian? I think there is a significant book to be written about why that's important and what role every Christian has in not only the gospel, but in the word of mutual encouragement and teaching and helping one another within the Christian community. So that's a book I think desperately needs to be written. And that's is one that I'm hoping I'll be starting very soon based on all the research I did.And the third book, I'd love to see some smart person write is I've thought about trying but I'm not sure I'll ever get to it. I'm really fascinated by the connection between Neoplatonism, Augustine, C.S. Lewis and John Piper. I have this theory that running through the Reformed tradition, and especially through Jonathan Edwards and then into our contemporary Christian milieu, is a stream of thinking that owes a bit more to Platonism and Neoplatonism than it does to the Bible—especially to do with how desire drives the Christian life and how the Christian life is is about us rising up to the joy of God, driven by our desire for joy (or happiness), and that this shapes what the Christian life and Christian theology is about.That seems to have the smell of Neoplatonism about it. And I'd love to have time to tease out that connection. Because I think that while there's a truth there—as indeed there is truth in Platonism, and a truth in man things—when you make it your system, it subtly shifts the way you think about things. It changes the emphasis of your theology and then changes how you read the Bible. You see it lot in C.S. Lewis who was quite explicitly influenced by the Cambridge Platonists. And I think you also see it coming out in contemporary evangelicalism in different ways. And that's a book I'd love some clever person somewhere to write.Phil: Hopefully that person might be listening …Tony: You just never know.Phil: Well, I would read all three of those books, but I do think your Two ways to live idea is so true. There hasn't really been a standard give away book since the Chappo books.Tony: Since A Fresh Start. In fact, I had an idea—and maybe this conversation with you will spur me into action to actually do it. I was thinking of taking a little run of Payneful Truths between now and the end of the year, or maybe over summer, and using them to write six chapters of this Two ways to live evangelistic book, and send it round to everybody and to see what they think. Make it a community effort, and see if we can pull together a short evangelistic book that utilizes the strengths of Two ways to live, but in a way that works for now and is in today's language. Maybe we should make it a communal project.Phil: I think it's a great idea.Tony: All right. I'll see what I can do!Phil, thanks a lot for talking today. It's been great to catch up with you. Thanks for encouraging us and stimulating us as you always do. And all the best for your ongoing preaching at St. George North and your involvement in all the other things you do.Phil: Thanks, Tony.PSHope you enjoyed that wide-ranging conversation as much as I did. To get every edition of The Payneful Truth every week, consider becoming a subscriber …Some links you might like to chase up:* Information about the Nexus Conference in Sydney on Dec 3* David Seccombe's book, The Gospel of the Kingdom* Paul Grimmond's book, Right Side Up This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.twoways.news/subscribe

Want to be a fly on the wall as I talk to Tony today!? Hit me up on IG! @russellbrunson Text Me! 208-231-3797 Join my newsletter at marketingsecrets.com And don’t forget to check out takethechallenge.com ---Transcript--- Russell Brunson: Hey, what's up, everybody? This is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to The Marketing Secrets Podcast. Oh, do I have a treat for you today. This week I had a chance to interview Tony Robbins, because a couple of reasons, number one, we are doing the Own Your Future Challenge that's coming up. Depending when you're listening to this, it's probably happening right now. And you can actually go sign up for that for free at takethechallenge.com. In fact, I would recommend pausing this, go sign up just so you've got it. But takethechallenge.com, a challenge about how to own your future and how to do a bunch of really cool things. And so, because the challenge is happening, and Tony and Dean are doing this with a whole bunch of other amazing people, I had a really rare opportunity to interview Tony. They said, "Hey, do you want to interview Tony for your podcast and your YouTube channel, all these things?" And of course, my answer was, "Yes." But I told him, I was like, "I don't really want to do an interview like everybody else is doing an interview. I want to do the interview based on things that I'm actually working on right now." So right now, as some of you know, I'm writing a book. My first personal development book ever. That's all I'm telling you. But a lot of what is in there, things I learned from Tony, and just principles and things I've learned from him a decade and a half ago that shifted my future and changed my destiny. And so, I said, "I want to ask you some questions that are a little different than everybody else." And he said, "Sure." I had a chance to ask him a whole bunch of really cool questions. I had a chance to ask him the difference between the science of achievement and the art of fulfillment. How can people go achieve everything, but be miserable? How can people have nothing, but they're happy? How do these things work together? These are ying and the yang, how do they work together? And I was able to ask him directly. So I asked him about the six human needs, which is one of my favorite topics of all time I think and had the biggest impact on me from Tony, and then how he gets from growth to contribution. And, oh... Anyway, it was amazing. It was so much fun. So, you guys are lucky because you're going to have a chance to listen to it right now. So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you the link in, go to takethechallenge.com, go sign up for the free challenge that way you'll have a chance to hear from Dean, from Tony, from me, from Jenna, from Sheldon, from Jamie Kern Lima, from Brendan Bouchard, from a whole bunch of just amazing people. It is a completely free challenge, so go sign up for it at takethechallenge.com and then come back and listen to my interview with Tony, and hope you enjoy it, it's going to be a lot of fun. And with that said we can cue the theme song. When I come back, you have a chance to hear my interview with Tony Robbins, about all the cool things I wanted to ask him. Oh, how cool is that? All right. We'll see you guys here in a minute. What's up, everybody. This is Russell Brunson. I'm here today with the one and only Tony Robbins. And we're going to be talking about a whole bunch of really cool things right now. There's a challenge coming up right out in the next... actually, it's happening right now as this is being recorded, and a lot of you guys watching, called the Own Your Future Challenge. And we'll talk more about that here in a minute, but before we do, I have this really unique and exciting opportunity to ask Tony a couple of questions. And so, I hope you guys enjoy some of the questions like I'm going to be enjoying this because he's someone I've been studying and learning from now for, man, probably 20-something years, had a chance to know you now for probably 13, 14 years, which is really, really cool. And it's not often I get to ask you questions. So, now I got you for 20 or 30 minutes. I'm excited to do that. So, how are you feeling today, Tony? Tony Robbins: I'm feeling awesome, buddy. Russell: Well, obviously the challenge we're going to be talking about more towards the end is about owning your future. This is this thing that we're trying to go towards. And especially right now, after all of the season we've all been through, where there's so much chaos and change and everything. Now it's like, okay, let's get background and let's look towards the future. But I wanted to kind of start off probably differently than some people have asked you, just because I'm in the middle of working on a book right now. And in the book, I'm trying to figure out this thing that I heard originally from you. You talked about this concept of the science of achievement versus the art of fulfillment. And this is something in my life, especially as I'm trying to own my future, and try to go this direction, I've found multiple times where I've achieved something in my life, and then expecting to be super fulfilled and excited, and having almost the opposite effect happen. I'd love to hear some of your thoughts about just those two, the yin yang between achievement and fulfillment and maybe why they're not exactly the same, and how we can have more success feeling fulfilled when we do have success. Tony: Well, I was trying years ago, I was trying to figure out, how do you really define an extraordinary life? Not just success. Success for most people, I think means getting what they want. I think fulfillment is giving what you're made for. And I think that the challenge for most people is, as we're growing up and we're developing our skill and our ability to start to master our own world, there's at least in Western culture, there's a huge push for us all to be achievers. And most of us have been so rewarded for that. I'm here on your podcast because of it. You're doing podcasts because of it. We both have managed to pull that off. But as you've discovered, as you're now, what, 41 did you say? Russell: Yup, 41. Tony: You're 41 years old. There's a stage of your life where you start to wake up and go, "It's not enough to just be successful. It's not enough to just be financially free." You know, I know that sounds crazy to someone who's not there yet, but you don't have to wait until you're financially free to have a sense of fulfillment. So, what I propose to people is that life requires two master skills. Skill number one is the science of achievement, which means the ability to take whatever you envision and make it real. Turn the invisible into the visible. To me, that's a spiritual process. But how do I go from, I have this idea, to living that idea or delivering that idea to millions of people around the world? To me, that's science. And the reason I say that is science is because it's duplicatable. If I want to make more money, I can go, as I did, interview 100 of the smartest financial people in the world and find out exactly what they did. And they all did different things, but there are certain universal patterns that I did in MONEY Master the Game, and Unshakeable, and so forth. And when you understand them, if you sow the same seeds, you reap the same rewards. So, in the financial world, it's a science. That's achievement. If you're looking at your health, it's a certain amount of science, meaning we're all biochemically unique, right Russell? But everybody has certain fundamentals, and if you violate them, you're going to have dis-ease or low energy. If you align with them, you're going to have an abundance of vitality, energy, and strength. So, that's science. But fulfillment is an art. That's why I said, there's two skills. The science of achievement, which you can duplicate and learn, and I've taught for decades, and you have as well, you did an extraordinary job of it. But then, the art of fulfillment. And the reason I call it the art is because it isn't a science, because it's different for every single person. That's why most people miss out it. First they miss out on it because they're so focused on achievement, and they think that's going to fulfill them. But I ask your audience, even yourself, think of something. You and I have talked about this before. Think of something you've achieved that you worked your tail off to achieve and then you achieved it, and then your brain said, "Is this all there is?" Or worse, how about something you achieve and you really were happy about it, but how long did you stay happy? You made this incredible achievement, took you years to get to. Were you happy for the next five years because of it? Russell: No. Tony: The next year? The next six months? The next three months? The next two weeks? Russell: The next morning you wake up? Tony: Most people are somewhere between three hours and three weeks maximum before they go right back to where they were because the brain adjusts. It adjusts because we're not made to sit around and just be fulfilled. We're made to grow. And so, the great part of achievement is it causes you to strive for growth. The problem is, people just keeping the hamster on the wheel, trying to achieve more, and they aren't making sure along the way they're fulfilled. So, I believe these are both critically important. If you ask me honestly which one's more important, it's fulfillment because success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure. I mean, I interviewed 50 self-made billionaires, the smartest financial investors in the history of the world for MONEY Master the Game. I did it over two and a half years, and about maybe 12, 13 of them are really good friends now. And I can tell you, out of that group of 50, and this is zero judgment, maybe four of them are happy people. Now, you go, "Oh, see? Money makes you unhappy." No, money just magnifies who you are. If you're mean, you have more to be mean with. If you're giving, you have more to give with. It doesn't change anything. But these people, they're not bad people. They're brilliant people, but they're so brilliant in one area and they miss the fulfillment side. To see one of these men arguing with his wife and kid, because they bought some jewelry that I think was around $2,500 and the guy is a multi, multi billionaire. He couldn't spend all his money in all these years, and yet he's got conflict in his own family because of his mindset. There are some people, for example Paul Tudor was with me the other day and he was talking about a neighbor of his, I won't mention a name, but the guy's in a $40 million home, he goes over with his young son, this was a few years ago Paul did this, and the guy has his own grass tennis court. And Paul said, "I've never seen that." Paul's a billionaire, one of the smartest financial people in the world. And bottom line, he goes, "Your son opened one of the can of balls." The son I think was like five or six or seven at the time. And the guy went crazy. "Get all those balls. When you open them up, they lose their pressure. That's $298." And Paul's like, "Bad boy. Okay, I'll give you the $3." So, some people, it doesn't matter how much they achieve. They're not experiencing the fulfillment. And it's more people than you would think. That's just an extreme example to get people's attention. So, my whole thing is, the art of fulfillment is finding what lights you up. And it's different for everybody. Now, if you can find a way to achieve and be fulfilled, that's pretty awesome. But most people get so caught up in achievement, they miss that other side. You think about the guys, the first Apollo astronauts that walked on the moon. I mean, you got to think about these guys. Imagine you're with 100,000 people competing to be an astronaut walking on the moon. And then it's down to 10,000, and then it's 1,000, and then it's 100. And then you're up in the space capsule with this rocket structure in back, and no one knows for sure who's going to make it, and you make it to the moon. You walk on the moon, you come back, you make it safely. There's a ticker-tape parade for you in New York City. You shake the president's hand. Now what do you do for the rest of your life for adventure? Russell: You can't match that. Tony: You're 34 years old or 35, I can't remember what they were, but I think it was 34, 35 years old. I got to interview three of them later on in life. Almost all of them ended up with drug and alcohol problems. And they talked about it quite openly, because they forgot to find adventure in a smile. So, they've got this one big achievement. And how long does that last? It's historic, but the emotion of it is not the same as the years go by because we're made to keep growing. What makes you fulfilled is growth. Do you want to know what makes you happy? It's called progress. Progress equals happiness. If you're making progress, even if you're not there yet, you're going to be lit up. Your weight isn't where you want it to be. But sure enough, you decide to start on a process and you're starting to feel better physically. You lose a few inches and you feel some energy and momentum, you're lit up. You're the ideal weight and you just stay there, no progress, doesn't feel very alive. So, we have to find a way to make progress. And it's different for everybody. Some people find it in music. Some people find it by serving in a non-profit. Some people find it with their kids. But you got to find what lights you up. And again, it's different for everyone. Russell: I'm curious, people who started going through this, the Own the Future Challenge, they're going to be given a very scientific, here's the steps to have success in one area of something. What would be the biggest thing for them, or just one thing they could anchor themselves as they're going through that, to make sure that they're not missing the fulfillment during this journey they're going through? Tony: I think it's helpful to think of this in sequences, because it's hard to be able to write and do everything. You know, if you're doing really great in your business, often you're not taking care of your body. Or if you're doing good in your business and your body, often your relationship doesn't get enough time. Or your relationship's doing great, you don't spend enough time with your kids. If your kids are doing great, often some of your finances aren't straight. So, it's the nature of the human being to focus on what they're good at and miss the others. But you know, I love studying different philosophies. Philosophy, or even religion, if you step out of it, what is religion designed to be? And there are many great religions around the world. I'm personally a Christian. That's what I believe, but I don't tell people what to believe. But whatever you believe, it's designed to guide you to create a greater quality of life. And regardless of what I may subscribe to, I like to learn from every philosophy because we're all human. I go to India usually about twice, well, about once every two years I take a group of people there and we go to a place called Varanasi. It's one of the oldest cities in the world. It's like 3,800 years old. And what's striking about this location is, the people come there because they believe in their religion, in the Hindu religion, if you die in Varanasi, you go to heaven. You don't come back. Their idea of hell is coming back and reliving everything, right? Rebirth. And so, they have this experience, when somebody dies there, they believe that they don't come back and they're so happy to die in Varanasi. They’ll crawl there, people are dying there. I tried to save a lady. I was actually helping a lady who was being helped by the Mother Teresa group, and she was angry because she wanted to die. What do you people do, messing with me? And then they carry the bodies there and they burn the bodies. They've been burning bodies 24 hours a day. There's wood stacked about five story high, and then those ashes of the person are put in the Ganges. And no one cries, because they see the body burning as, the teacher is gone and now the spirit is free. So, I tell you that because you don't have to subscribe to something to say, "Wow, that's fascinating, no pain in death and you have this total trust in the universe or God or whatever term you want to use for it." But they also have what they believe are the four aims of life. And they think about them in a sequence. And I think it's sometimes useful for people. So, if you want to jot them down, the first one in the sequence is called Artha, A-R-T-H-A. It's one of the first aims of life. And what it really is, is security and prosperity. And so, if you don't have security and prosperity, it's really hard to enjoy the central parts of life for any extended way. It's really hard to feel your sense of purpose when you're worried about whether you can feed your family. It's really hard to feel that highest spiritual sense. It doesn't mean you can't. It just means it's harder. And so, the Indian culture understands that. And instead of saying, "This is bad or not spiritual," they say, "Finding your prosperity, your security, finding the way to do useful work that you feel good about, that you know is helpful, but also gets you to an economic place where you're prosperous is one of the first aims of life." And then, when you get that automatically the other dimensions start to open up. Now, you don't have to wait, but it's useful to remember, that is where we start. That's where I started, it's where we all start. How do I make sure my family's taken care of? We didn't have enough money for food when I was a kid. So, this was an obsession for me at an early age. I want to do so well, we don't have to worry about that stuff. But it's not non-spiritual. It's about saying "This is part of life that is anchoring in the science of achievement." Think of it that way, right? But then the next level is called Kama, K-A-M-A. And that's pleasure. And it's like, okay, now that you have security and prosperity as a base, and it's strong, you don't have to wait till then, the next thing you start developing is enjoying more of life. Pleasure is the driving force of life. You've got to find what gives you pleasure. And I don't just mean sensuality. I mean, it can be art, it can be music, it can be serving. It's all the different textures of life, because without pleasure, life's pretty dead. So, instead of going, "Oh my God, what am I going to do?" It's like, "Okay, let me go to this challenge and figure out how to get my security and prosperity down. Let me think of a new vehicle. Let me figure out how to get money chasing me instead of me chasing money." That's really what this challenge starts out with. And then the Kama side is like, "How much can I enjoy along the way while I'm learning? How much can I enjoy learning? Just the experience. How much can I enjoy building this business from the very beginning or taking a business there to the next level?" That's part of what Kama is, is finding the pleasure in the expansion and the appreciation of life. And then, the third level is what you and I have probably most focused on, would be Dharma. Dharma is like, "Okay, I've got so much security and prosperity and I know what gives me pleasure in life. And I've found useful work." It's like, "Okay, what's my higher purpose? What is that deeper purpose for me at this stage in my life?" And a lot of people overvalue this because they've tried to make it something huge. You know, for me, my purpose is... I used to have these long mission statements. "The principle of life is to be the most passionate, playful, outrageous, enjoyable, generous giving example of God's grace, as I serve millions of people over the..." Now it's like, "How can I help?" You know? Because that's really what it is. When I'm serving, I feel alive. So, the number one question I've got is, how can I help? Whenever someone's coming, that's the question. It's a burning question and it's a beautiful question because it brings joy and love to me and to them because most people are happy to have some help from somebody who sincerely cares. And it's not like I have all the answers. It's just, I have a lot of them because I've made it 61 years and I've traveled to 150 countries around the world and dealt with tens of millions of people. So, I'm fortunate because I’m not going to be an idiot, I should have ways to be able to help. So, it's like finding what is it? What is that way of life that is true for you at this stage? You've got enough security and prosperity and of pleasure. What's it all about? And then, ultimately it leads to what they call Moksha. And M-O-K... Moksha. M-O-K-S-H-A, I believe is how they spell it. And that's your unity with God. Now, does that say you're not unified with God at the beginning? Of course not. It's just like, there's a point where that really becomes the priority in somebody's life. And in their view, yes, you work on all four of them, but you are going to in the beginning, put more focus on securing your life and getting so you're not chasing money, money's chasing you and you have freedom for your family, right? You're going to, in the beginning, you'll be more focused on hopefully enjoying the pleasures of learning and growing and expanding and building something so you don't miss out. And then, you certainly want to figure out what your purpose is, but again, most people are trying to make it so big so they'll feel significant, when really it's just what lights you up. And if you do all those things, it leads to a greater connection to the universe, God, whatever you want to call it. So, even though I'm not Indian, and I'm Christian, I still think that general philosophy is a helpful way to look at your life, and also keeps you from beating yourself up. Because a lot of us are pretty hard, including you, Russell, I know you really well, on ourselves. We expect ourselves to do everything perfect, every moment, every time. And life is a journey of growing. I always tell people, "What makes you successful? Good judgment. Making good decisions. What does good judgment come from? Experience. Where does experience come from? Often, bad judgment." That's how you learn, right? Russell: The circle. Tony: What I've tried to do in my life, was take the bad judgments and the good judgments and say, "Let me compress decades into days and share with you so you don't have to learn by trial and error, show you the shortcuts to those things." And that's what I've done with all of my events and books and challenges, and everything else that we do. Russell: Oh, so cool. Okay. The next question I going to ask you about, because the first UPW I came to was in Toronto. I'm really bad at years, but probably 12, 14 years ago, something like that. And at the time, I had had some level of success, but there were a lot of times in my life where I felt like I was doing this personal development, trying to grow and I was trying to contribute. I was going through growth and contribution, but sometimes I felt like I had my foot on the gas at one moment and my foot on the brake at the other time, and I'm spinning around, and I'm just like, "Why am I not moving?" I was so frustrated. And one of the tools that you give at UPW, that was for me, probably the first big aha I got from you, and I've had so many since then, but it was the one that was the paradigm shift where I was like, "Okay, the student's now ready to listen to everything you're saying." And that's when you start talking about the six human needs. And I looked at it because I was looking at growth and contribution, which are the needs of the spirit. And these are the things I was focusing on, like how do I grow myself? How do I contribute? But I kept falling back because of the needs of the body or needs of the personality, those four needs. And because I didn't have those things in order, or were out of whack or they would be for a little while organized and I could go over here, but then something would happen. I'd slip back into them. And those kept me from progressing until I learned how to manage those things and get in a spot where my needs were being met. Then I could go and focus on growth and contribution. And I think in this challenge, people are going to be inspired to start doing growth and contribution, but I don't want them to be like I was, where I had the foot on the gas going forward the foot on the brake. I would love if you could talk to us a little bit about the four needs of the body and how we can take care of those, to make sure that we're able to actually go and focus on growth and contribution. Tony: Well, it kind of ties in a little bit with what I was just sharing, I've just got to get it to another angle, but you're very astute in this area. So, for people that don't know, early in my life, early, I don't know, maybe 10, 15 years into my career, I've been doing it 44 years, I remember I traveled to more than 100 countries and I'd started seeing the same patterns. Obviously, when you go to Asia, there's different values. People value the group more than the individual. Saving face is critical in Asia. It's very different in America, right? So, I noticed those differences, but what I noticed no matter where I went, was you saw the same problems, the same arguments, the same problems in relationships, the same issues with people's bodies, same financial issues. And I began to realize, while we do get conditioned, our goals, our dreams, our desires may come from some of our conditioning and our life experience, but there are certain inherent needs that all human beings have. And I came up with six, not from a book, just from seeing people and then playing with it back and forth until I could see that I could cover everything that human beings really do. And so, the bottom line is, I found that certainty was the basic, fundamental human need of all human beings. The need to be certain you could avoid pain, and that you could have ideally some pleasure or comfort. Think of it as certainty/comfort. We all want that because without certainty and comfort, we have pain, we have continuous pain. You got damage, continuous damage equals bad. So, it's actually survival instinct. The difference though, is I started, as I went through these six needs, I started seeing everybody has them. But as I will describe them to you really fast, there is a difference. And the difference is how you value them. For some people, certainty as the number one thing in life. If you change anything, they get upset. If you move things on their desk, they freak out. You change the time, they freak out. That's an example of certainty. Some people get their certainty by doing the same thing every day. Some people get certainty by trusting God's going to guide them. Some people get certainty because they've screwed up so much in the past and they still came out finding a way, and their brain goes, "I know I'll find a way, but I don't know what it is." Some people get certainty by smoking a cigarette because they're all stressed out and they take a breath, when they breathe in, it makes them comfortable and certain, right? Even though they're killing themselves. Some people get certainty by eating food for comfort. So, everybody has the need. The only two differences in human beings are, what's the order of importance for you that's going to completely change your direction in life? If you're certainty driven, you're going to be moving this direction away from the challenge. If you're uncertainty driven, meaning it's higher value for you, you're going to be going straight at it. And direction determines ultimate destination or destiny. So, once I know your direction, I know where you're going. I know what challenges you're going to face, I know what opportunities you’re going to have. Okay? So, the difference is, different orders and different rules. Some people, I got to do the same thing to be certain. Other people, I've just got to trust in God and I'm certain. Right? Very different. Some people work out to be certain. They get that strength in their body, they're ready to rock and roll again. We restored their certainty or their comfort. Some people eat to do it. Some of these ways you do are neutral. They don't affect you either way. They're just okay. Some actually have a negative impact, like smoking a cigarette. Some have a positive impact, like let's say trusting in God perhaps, if you believe in that, or working out certainly does. All right? So, the second human need though, outside of certainty is uncertainty, just so your audience knows. Uncertainty, variety, we all need surprise. I ask people at events, "Who here loves surprises?" Everybody raises their hand and says, "I." I say, "Bullshit. You like the surprises you want, right? The surprises you don't want, you call problems." But we need some variety, we need surprise to feel alive. Too much variety, people freak out. Too much certainty, people are bored out of their mind. So, are you in the lukewarm middle? No. You got to learn how to use both. Third human need, the need for significance, the need to feel unique, special, important. Everybody has it, including the people saying, "I don't want to be significant." What they're really saying is, "I don't want to be judged. I don't want anybody to be upset with me if I'm significant." Right? But some people get significance by working harder than anybody else. Some people do it by studying the Bible or Bhagavad Gita or whatever. Some people get that certainty by way of how they dress or their tattoos, or some people do it by money. Some people do it by being more generous. There's a million ways you can be significant or important to people or to feel needed. We all have the need. The only question is, how do you need it, and is it number one, two, three, four, five, changes how you're going to end up in one. Fourth, the need for love and connection. Everyone wants love and connection. Everyone needs it, whether they want it or not. Most people settle for connection because love is just too scary. And then, those first four needs, as you know, are the needs of the personality. We all need certainty to survive. We all need variety to feel alive. We all need some feeling of significance. And we all need some feeling of love. When a person feels completely insignificant to anyone, and unloved, that's when they start thinking about checking out. That's when someone will consider suicide, where there's no compelling future for them. So, these needs are critical, but almost everybody meets them. Somebody meets the needs by smoking and then tearing other people down. You can feel important by making other people less important. If I move you down, I have the illusion I'm moving up. It doesn't really work long-term but it works for the moment. Sugar feels good for the moment, long-term it doesn't feel good. So, you can meet your needs in positive ways, neutral or negative, but everyone finds a way to meet their needs to some extent. But the ultimate needs that you described were five and six. You got to grow to feel alive. We grow or we die. Like I just said, progress equals happiness, right? And we grow so we have something to give, because if we contribute in a meaningful way, we feel more alive. So, a lot of people jump on and go, "I want to grow and give, grow and give." Which is, there's zero wrong with that. I think it's fantastic. But like the example I gave you from India, your certainty is often tied to your access to food and shelter, and a quality of life, and maybe a certain amount of income to provide for your family. Right? So, yes, you do need to honor those, but everyone's different. Some people value love as the number one thing and they move in this direction. Some people value significance, and they go in a different direction, because the more you demand significance, the less love you usually get. Right? Because people have been pushed off by it. If somebody wants totally certain, they go in one direction. If they want variety, they go in a different direction. Again, direction determines your ultimate destination or destiny. So, when I know which one are your top two, I know how your life is going to turn out. And then I ask questions to find out, what does it take for you to feel significant? Do you have to make a billion dollars or pray to God and feel the connection? Walk out and go for a run by the ocean and feel the universe with you. Everyone has different ways. Once I know what you want and how you go about getting it, I know your opportunities, I know your challenges, and I know how to coach you. So, your question though, was... to be specific, I had to give that context so everyone knows what we're talking about, is, okay, I want to grow and contribute because those are the spiritual needs. Those are the ones most people miss. That's what makes you most fulfilled. But I still got to do these other four things and they're really easy to do. So, I think of it as saying, "Find your vehicle, find what's going to give you that economic security and idea, and economic independence. Again, when you're not chasing money, money might be start chasing you. That's an important part. You have to work your off and refine it. Science of achievement. Along the way, make sure you find the variety, the pleasure of the uniqueness of everything you're doing, and stopping and bringing it in. Every morning I do a process where I think of three things I'm most grateful for and I experience them fully, and then I think of a blessing and send the blessing to all my family and friends. And then I think of what I'm going to accomplish next. And that sets up plenty of that variety and certainty. Significance. You know, the most significant thing to me is love. But it's like, what am I doing that matters? Let me do some things that matter today. Love. What can I do that's kind? The fastest way to love is to give love, right? Fastest way to kindness is give kindness in a world where the world is pretty divided now, but it's still pretty magical when somebody does it authentically. So, it's not hard to meet the first four needs. Growing and contributing. That's where you're going to feel the most fulfilled. So, when people go through these challenges, what I always try to do is, I don't just give them the skill, I give them the emotion to follow through because otherwise you can know what to do and not do what you know anyway. So, that's kind of the way I try to balance it. Again, science of achievement and art of fulfillment, and just be aware of them both and focusing on both instead of just one. Russell: Yeah. Oh, I love that. I think for me, it was interesting because I noticed that when I was struggling to contribute or grow, it was because something was out of whack. I wasn't getting my love and connection or I wasn't feeling significant or something wasn't in place. And when I got to the point where I could figure out, okay, here's ways to make sure that I'm feeling these needs in a positive way, not a negative way, then it takes that pressure off. And I was like, "Now I can go grow. Now I can contribute. Now I can do things." I've noticed even nowadays, if it gets out of whack again, it's like I got to make sure all these things are spinning and I can go back and I can show up at a level that I can't when these things aren't running the right way. Tony: Yeah, that makes total sense. Russell: Yeah. Cool. My next question, this is going to kind of transition a little more to the challenge now. Obviously, a lot of people who are in your world and my world, they're coming because the growth, right? They're learning and they're learning, and they're growing, and that part's so much fun for all of us. The growth part is addicting. And I think that's why people love reading books and going through courses and all sorts of stuff. But I know for me, the real growth didn't come from me in this growth phase where I was learning stuff, it's as I started contributing and started helping other people. For me it was, I was starting my business, I was teaching other people. And that's when I first started to really connect with that contribution and that part of it. I know that that's one of the big things that this challenge is about, is getting people from a growth phase to, now how do you contribute? How do you take this knowledge and these ideas and the things that you're developing and learning, and how do you use them to serve other people? And I'd love for you to talk just a little about that transition, of how we transition from a growth mindset to, here's how I can contribute with these gifts that we've been given. Tony: I think the challenge is called Own Your Future Challenge, that we're doing. And it's myself and Dean and an army of just great friends of ours who are smart. The focus here is execution. It's not just about more learning and growing in this one. It's like showing you, you've got some knowledge. Someone you care about, bless you, has knowledge and you can take that knowledge and bring it to people in a world, even when it's shut down. I mean, my business, I've got 80 companies plus now, but my core mission with my business is Robbins Research, where I did my events and I've done my events. I mean, they literally, they made what I did illegal because the size of it. I'd do minimum, it'd be 10,000, most of them 15, 12,000 people, somewhere in that range. And all of a sudden, they made it illegal in every country in the world that I wanted to go to. Australia, London, Italy, France, everywhere, America, all over the place. And so, I had to figure out what to do. But I've got to tell you, I'm reaching more people now, and I'm doing it in a different way. You know? So, the tools to be able to reach people all over the earth, I mean, four billion people are on the internet now and we're going to see another two billion join over the next five or 10 years. Almost 50% more people are going to join the internet. The size of the marketplace of people you can serve is unbelievable. But you have to be able to get the skills and you got to get yourself to execute. A lot of people, as you said, get addicted to just the learning experience, which is the aha moments, like, "Oh my God, I understand that. That makes sense. Oh, I can change the world with that." But you know, I was very lucky, Jim Rowan was my original teacher, the personal development speaker. Some of your listeners probably know his name. He's been passed away for some time, but he used to always say, "Tony, don't let your learning lead to knowledge and become a fool." He said, "Let your learning lead to action." And he'd tell you to become wealthy. And to him, wealthy wasn't just money. It was like an extraordinary life. It was living life on your terms. It was life that was full of joy and happiness and fulfillment and meaning and economic freedom. And I think that's what we're really looking to do with people in this challenge, is show them the tools to execute. Yes, you can have the excitement of learning all this stuff and there's no charge for the fricking thing. It's these challenges, my last one I'm going to do this year. I did two this year. But I wanted to do it with my friends because I wanted people to have a vehicle. A lot of people don't have that first Artha. They don't have a vehicle for prosperity and security. And they're looking at a world where the world's changed, it's upside down and it's not going to go back to exactly how it was. Some things will return, obviously. But a lot of them aren't. And so, your job is to figure out, "What am I going to do now?" And so, where are you going to figure that out? So, we decided to bring the best people we know together to show you and show you how to use technology to do things in minutes. When I started out in this business, I mean, it took months to pull off. But literally the technology can do things for you today, as we all know. And so, I'm very excited about we're going to be able to offer people. But in a few days, they're not just going to have more knowledge and excitement, they're going to have perhaps a business or at least the beginnings of a business. And maybe even be online starting that out all in the few days of the challenge. So, that's the difference I think we're really focused on here, is making sure that... I always tell people, knowledge is not power. Knowledge is potential power. Execution beats and trumps knowledge every day of the week. That's our goal, is to get people to really each day, make some small actions, so by the end of the challenge, they're really in a place of having their business, or if they had a business, taking it to another level. Russell: Yeah. Well, I'm excited for the challenge. I'm going to be flying out to Phoenix and hanging out with you and Dean and everybody for one of the days. Tony: Looking forward to that. Russell: And I'm actually bringing my twin boys. My twin boys are 15 years old and I'm trying to show them how to control their future. So, they're going to come and sit there and experience it. And then, we're actually going to go out afterwards with some friends and we're going to go and feed the homeless and spend some time, and just showing them some really cool experiences after the challenge. So, I'm excited for it because I'll be participating in it as a student, and also as a one of the teachers as well. Tony: I just want to say something about you too, Russell, to your audience. You know, a lot of people virtual saying, "I'm going to go feed somebody," but you do this all the time, just like I do. It's not like something you do and then tell people you're doing it. You're just really doing it. And I love that you share it. Same reason I used to never share what I did in this area. But then I start realizing it inspires people to consider something new. And we're not doing it because we're just such good people. We're doing it because it's so fulfilling to do something for someone you don't even know. It's people don't understand what that does to you, to just do what's right. It doesn't have to be 24 hours a day. And especially doing it with your kids so they get addicted to it at an early age. I really honor you for that. Russell: Oh, thanks. I'm excited. It's going to be a fun experience. It's going to be a new experience for them. I think it's going to be awesome. Well, for those who are listening, if you're watching the video, there will probably be a link down below. But if you're listening, the sign up link to go sign up for the challenge, if you go to takethechallenge.com, that's where you can go sign up for the challenge through our link. And we've got a bunch of really cool bonuses and stuff for everybody who gets involved and hangs out. But that's where everything will be at, at takethechallenge.com. And if you do that, you have a chance to hang out with Tony and me and Dean and Jenna. And I don't even know. You have some amazing speakers that are part of this, people that only Tony could bring into the world, nobody else would say yes to be part of this. He's got some amazing people who he has a chance to come and hang out with and participate and learn how to start your own business. How to start going from this, from a growth mindset to contribution. "How do I create a business that serves other people?" I think I never understood that was what business was really about until honestly, probably the last seven or eight years since I started running ClickFunnels, and I seen, when you create a business and you help other people, that contribution, you see how people's lives are changed. I'm not talking about my own. I'm talking about people who've used ClickFunnels. You know, one of my favorite success stories inside of our ClickFunnels community is a couple named Brandon and Kaelin Poulin. And they were young, 22, 23-year-old couple when they came into our world, and she's really good at losing weight. And she took her knowledge and her experience, and now they've helped over a million women to lose weight. Tony: Wow. Russell: They've built a huge company that's 70, 80 employees now. And they're changing the lives of so many people and it's one person, one person taking their knowledge, turning it into something they can contribute. And it literally, the ripple effect of that is huge. You look at a million women, that's amazing, but those women have families and kids and communities they serve. And that ripple effects keeps going out. And that's just one person. And so, you never know where it's going to turn until you take that knowledge and turn it to something amazing. Tony: You think about where we are today, because of technology you can do that so fast. Try doing that 20 years ago. Trust me, it was a very different process. So, the possibility of that kind of impact is there. So, it all comes down to having an orientation that realizes that the only way to get wealthy is do more for other people than anybody else is doing, and do it consistently. And of course, if you add that much value, you'll have value that's added to you as well. But learning how to do that quickly, efficiently, step-by-step, that's what this challenge course is about. So, we look forward to seeing you guys there. Russell: That's awesome. Well, thank you, Tony. Thank you everybody. Again, go to takethechallenge.com, get signed up and we'll see you guys live here in a couple of days. So, thanks Tony. I appreciate you. Tony: Thank you, buddy.

I had an amazing discussion with Tony Whatley about working twice as hard as the next person, never giving up, building a business from scratch, selling his business for millions, working for a corporation and now his new life of helping entrepreneurs. Check out his book "Sidehustle Millionaire": https://amzn.to/3fXEwmd Also check out his Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/365driven and his website at https://365driven.com/. This was a fascinating chat with someone who has really done it...created a business and sold it for millions. So many people act as if they've done it but rarely do you find someone who has and is willing to share their knowledge to help lift others up. Enjoy and thanks so much for listening!! Joe Tony Whatley CEO - 365Driven.com Author of: Sidehustle Millionaire Website: https://365driven.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/365driven/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/365driven 365Driven Faceook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/365driven/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonywhatley/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrETiHfxlI0Igei04hd1KVQ Podcast Music By: Andy Galore, Album: "Out and About", Song: "Chicken & Scotch" 2014 Andy's Links: http://andygalore.com/ https://www.facebook.com/andygalorebass If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. For show notes and past guests, please visit: https://joecostelloglobal.libsyn.com Subscribe, Rate & Review: I would love if you could subscribe to the podcast and leave an honest rating & review. This will encourage other people to listen and allow us to grow as a community. The bigger we get as a community, the bigger the impact we can have on the world. Sign up for Joe's email newsletter at: https://joecostelloglobal.com/#signup For transcripts of episodes, go to: https://joecostelloglobal.lybsyn.com Follow Joe: https://linktr.ee/joecostello Transcript Joe: All right, my guest is Tony Whatley. Tony, welcome to the podcast.   Tony: Joe, good to connect and thank you for having me on the show, brother.   Joe: Yeah, man, so you and I connected on Clubhouse and there is a tremendous amount of noise on the Clubhouse, as with any platform, once it takes off and you stuck out to me because you're not one of those people that are leaning against a rented Lamborghini or sitting in a hollow like a fuselage. So and when I listen to you talk in certain rooms on clubhouse, just something attracted me to wanting to connect more with you and learn about your story. So what I like to do with all my guests, as I like to go back, I think it's important for people that become successful like you, that the people that are listening to this and who will eventually watch the YouTube video of this a few days after I release this on the platform that they understand where you came from, because I think that's always really important to know that you just weren't handed all of these things. And this just with any anybody becoming an entrepreneur, it's not an easy journey. So can you kind of bring us forward to today, but tell us where you started? I know that you got into oil and you had a regular career, quote, regular giving air quotes for the podcast listeners. So if you could take us from the beginning, it would be awesome.   Tony: Hey, thank you for the opportunity. So my life grew up lower middle class to hard, hardworking parents, blue collar careers. My mom was a cafeteria worker in the public schools for over 30 years, serving kids meals. She had a really strong heart. She loved everybody, didn't and didn't dislike anybody. Even some of the people I disliked, she was like she could find the love in everybody. Right. And my dad, Vietnam veteran U.S. Marines, and after the military, he worked in chemical refineries here in the UAE, an area the rest of his career. They're both retired now, doing well. And I just learned the value of hard work and having to learn to be grateful for what I had in the houses that I grew up in. Three houses specifically in Friendswood, Texas, is really the lowest income neighborhood in the entire city, which had affluence and also had lower middle class, lot more of the affluence. But, you know, fewer of us. And we would basically buy the crappiest house and the smallest house in the neighborhood and live in it while we flipped it for a few years, while we were restoring it, making it nicer. And eventually those small houses would become one of the nicer houses on the street. And then they would go by a little bit nicer, bigger house, because me and my sister, which we're growing just like the house sizes. And so I just thought that was a normal life. I saw that there was a affluence nearby. I could get on my bicycle and my skateboard and run around and look at these big houses that had a lot of windows on the front.   Tony: I remember being a kid and I only had one window on the front of my first house. I grew up and it was the one that was a bay window on the living room. And I would watch my sister, who was a year and a half older, get on the bus every day, and I would wave to her just like my mom would be standing in the window. And that was always my view of the house, the first house I grew up in. And I just thought that every house just had one view. So I just thought that was normal. And I remember when I became old enough to go right around and leave the neighborhood and go see what was outside, I saw all these big houses with multiple windows. And I remember thinking to myself, I wonder what the view at that window looks like. I wonder what the view at that window looks like. And I could just envision myself running through this house and like looking through the windows and seeing if was a different view. And each one, as funny as thing is, as my wife is a realtor and sometimes I'll go do some showings with her and I'll we'll be at these large houses and I'll still look out every window. Even to this day. I'll still look out every window just to see what the view is.   Joe: That's   Tony: And   Joe: Right.   Tony: So I started to catch myself doing this. Like, why am I so fascinated by what's outside? Each one is like, oh, now I remember. Now I remember.   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: So yeah, a little bit about me   Joe: Yeah,   Tony: And.   Joe: Yeah, so how did you get into so what did you did you go to college for some particular subject or degree or.   Tony: I went to college for the pursuit of the six figure paycheck. That   Joe: Let's   Tony: Was that was the only reason   Joe: Get.   Tony: Because because I turned well, my first job was McDonald's at age 15. I worked there through high school. Then I was a busser at Olive Garden. And then I became a waiter there because I was good busser. And then I went to work at a steakhouse where I was another waiter. And then I became a manager of this brewery steakhouse and Clear Lake, Texas, and. I turned 18 and it really wasn't enough money to live on just just working at the restaurant, so I actually started working in construction just like my dad and and working in Texas and fire retardant clothing with a hard hat and 95 degree temperatures. It only took me a few summers of realizing that that's not where I wanted to be. I saw these these men with collared shirts walking into air conditioned rooms on the same facility. I was like, well, what do they do? All their engineers like? Well, man, I need to figure out how to work in the air conditioning. Yes. So I just said, hey, if you've got to go get a six figure career, that's what we tell you. You could be a doctor, a lawyer or an engineer. Well, I happen to love cars. So I said, well, maybe there's something in engineering that I can learn about cars and I can maybe go get that six figure paychecks. I became a mechanical engineer and I worked full time during that whole ordeal. I paid for school myself and actually the first person and both sides of my family to go to a university. My dad was the first one in his family to to move to a house that didn't have wheels attached to it. And so it was the first one to go to university. So I really applaud him for not going back to his hometown after he got out of the military and just decided, like, I don't want to grow up there. I don't want my kids   Joe: At.   Tony: To grow up there. We're moving somewhere else. So he went where the work was and he facilitated that change. And I felt like it was my obligation to do, you know, a little bit better for him, for the work that they put in. Isn't that what we all should be striving to is trying to do a little bit more than our parents   Joe: Yeah,   Tony: Who struggled   Joe: Absolutely.   Tony: To put us in that situation? And so, you know, me getting that degree took me seven years. I was I was going to school at night time, usually between six and 10 p.m. and sleep deprived and broke and stressed out and actually had more gray hair in college than I do now. Is is strange and really a sleep and stress. You know, it really does has a lot of physiological, you know, turmoil on us. And my relationship struggled back things I just didn't have any time to dedicate to those kind of things. But, you know, I never changed majors. I never quit. I did drop some classes along the way because I struggled and my grades were suffering at the point said I didn't quit. And that was a testament to me is like, I'm going to see this through because I actually had friends that joined mechanical engineering program. Honestly, even when they tell you that when you start freshman year of school, they said only 20 percent of you are going to graduate. And then they said, OK, well, how many of you have a girlfriend or boyfriend or you're married and raise your hand? Remember that orientation freshman year? And I said, OK, well, only 10 percent of you will graduate. And they said, how many of you are working full time job to do this? And I raise my hand again, I said, well, only 10 percent of you will graduate. So I was like out of a 20 percent pool, 10 percent of that and 10 percent had really bad odds. But you   Joe: At.   Tony: Know what? I'm pretty defiant. And I said, you know, I'm going to prove them wrong. I'm going to be the one that defeats the odds. And upon graduating, it was only 12 people in my class that had graduated that that semester.   Joe: Wow, that's   Tony: And   Joe: Crazy.   Tony: I was the only one that was working full time. So I really did defeat the odds. And I thought that I wanted to go into automotive career. But automotive in Detroit just didn't pay nearly as much as oil and gas in my hometown of Houston. So I decided to just take the paychecks in Houston. And that's why I started businesses in the automotive performance arena, because I still wanted to satisfy that itch.   Joe: Right. So you ended up taking a full time job in the oil and gas world. What was that job?   Tony: Earliest was a project engineer role working for a manufacturing facility, we built subsea equipment and pay pay back then was probably 45000 base salary, you know, entry level at that time. So for context, this was around 1997, 1998, and I was getting home at four thirty in the afternoon, like most people with a 40 hour job. We started really early in the morning, but I get home at four thirty and I felt like. After going through seven years of hustle and grind and working three jobs, I was still a waiter working construction as a mechanic and said this feels like a part time job. So here I am with my big boy salary and my big boy degree feeling like, OK, I guess I'm on my journey. I'm on my early journey to go chase the American dream. And I've done it. And and I was just bored. I was   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: Bored and I would be really honest with myself. I'd look at my small apartment and, you know, I bought myself a nicer car, bought a Pontiac Trans Am when I graduated. So that that was like my reward to myself.   Joe: Uh.   Tony: And I felt like this is this isn't enough. This is not enough. And I got a lot of energy. I got a lot of time. So I actually went back and waited tables at the restaurant that I was a manager of because I had promoted one of my friends to be the manager when I left. And I called him up and say, hey, man, do you think I could just come pick up shifts and bartending and waiting? He's like, hell, yeah, dude, you're awesome. Like, come back any time. I don't even need to put you on the schedule to come pick up one. And so for me that meant seven nights a week. I just I put the apron on and people lot of the people that were still working there knew who I was. And I graduated and that's why I left. And to go, why are you back? And it's like because I'm not where I want to be. Like, I can sit home and sit on the couch and watch TV or I can come back and make an extra 150 bucks a night.   Tony: So I chose to go suck up my pride and go do that. You know, his thing is I've never I've never felt shame for doing what was necessary to get what I needed to do. And I think a lot of times people put ego or self-importance above what they need to do. And, you know, I was fine if I was cleaning the bathrooms at McDonalds, I did it the best I could find, mopping floors. That is the best I could. And even as a kid, I go back and some of my long term friends like you just never complained. You just did what was required. Like football coaches would tell you something. You just do it. I've never been the complainer because I watched my parents work so hard and we literally were living inside of a flip house the entire time, and I just know that blood, sweat and tears is not just some a cliche phrase. And I learned from my dad like, hey, you know, he's a combat vet. Like, you should see what I had to do when I was 18, son,   Joe: Right.   Tony: You know, like like suck it up,   Joe: Yep.   Tony: Go do the work. Don't complain. You have it better than a lot of people in this world. And that's the mentality I adopted as a kid. And I grew into a young adult and I still carry that with me today.   Joe: So you're at this job, you're doing part time at the restaurant. And when do you decide and is the first side hustle that you start? Is it is it less one tech? Is that what it was?   Tony: Now, actually, my first side hustle. It's going to get really nerdy, but I learned how to build electronic circuits with resistors, a little bread boards and soldering, and I was kind of geeking out on this and I learned how to design a device that you could plug into an engine harness on a on a Camaro or a Corvette or a TransAm that would fool the NOx sensors and give you about 10 horsepower. So it basically would give it a little bit more ignition time. And it was a plug and play thing. And I knew how to design it and I built it. And so I would go to RadioShack back when those were everywhere,   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: Buy all the resistors and I would buy these little circuit boards and little boxes and the wiring and I would buy the GM harnesses from the parts counter at the local Chevy dealership. And I get home and I would bust out my little kit and I would solder things and it would take me about take me about an hour to build each one of these units. And I had about thirty dollars in parts. I can sell over 75 bucks. And so it didn't scale very well, obviously, because there was only a limited market, you know, I mean, hundreds of people that maybe wanted to buy that. And I can only build two or three a night without running at a time. And so that was my first online business. I actually built a little one page landing page is   Joe: Mm   Tony: What we   Joe: Hmm.   Tony: Call it now. But it was actually that's all my capability was back then.   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: And I sold I mean, I could sell six or seven a week and it was like good beer, money or aside, money was better than waiting tables, to be honest, because I could still make the same amount of time, but I could be at home. So that allowed me to leave the restaurants. And then I started building Web pages. I taught myself how to code HTML about really simple Web pages and do graphic design with Photoshop and take some good photos and build Web pages. Because I started that. A lot of people out there, a lot of automotive performance shops and manufacturers didn't have Internet presence at that time because they didn't have a website. So it's like, well, shit, I could trade my skills for car parts. So it's like a barter system is like   Joe: Right,   Tony: I can get free car parts   Joe: Right.   Tony: Of a website. And that funded my car and my racing hobby. Right. And so I got known for building these little simple one to three page websites, which I would have to basically layout on Photoshop visually first and then slice them and make the little buttons and like re rebuild those slices into like what looked like a Web page on the. There is a whole lot harder than it is nowadays and I probably got 100 of those websites over a period of two years. And so I got known as the guy that could build car stuff websites and I would get paid or I would trade car parts. And I was hanging out on other communities at the time and they weren't being managed very well. You know, they were they're not paying their server bills. Things were getting crashed. And sometimes all the content we create would be gone. You know, after you built all this, how to articles and you're writing all the stuff that's free of user generated content. And and finally we approached the owner of that Web site and we said, hey, we see you've got advertisers. We know how much you charge because some of my friends, advertisers have built their websites like, why aren't you paying your server bill? It's like it's like three hundred dollars a month, like what's going on. And rather than take that as constructive feedback from some of his best supporters, like a group of us, he said, well, if you guys think you can do a better job, go start your own.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Tony: And it never even was a thought in my mind until he said that he challenged me again, like you don't challenge me. I'm the kind of person if you challenge me, I'm going to go do it. I'm going to prove you wrong. And so I said, well, man, I could build websites and I don't know much about servers, but I'm pretty sure I can figure out how to load some software on there into a server. That's pretty easy. If I could read a how to. And so that's what we did is like, you know, two of us started a website that was at least one tech. That was November 2001. So 20 years from now and this year. And we just started as a hobby. Dude, it's like, you know, the Set-aside Kim, it's not reliable. Let's just go start our own place to hang out. And my partner, John and I, we just thought, you know, if we can make 500 dollars a month, which is the Karno to the Trans Am I had and the Karno to the Camaro SS that he had. So that would be pretty cool to be like we would have a free car just to hang out and a place to talk about cars. And I've got a big boy job and a salary and you've got your own too. And we don't need this and it's just something we want to have fun with. And I like to illustrate that because, you know, you know, shocker.   Tony: Yeah. That thing went on to earn hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in profit. And we sold it for millions in 2007, but was never intended to make millions of dollars. You know, a lot of people are like, oh, did you were you a visionary? And could you stop this? And it's like, no, we just wanted to make five hundred dollars a month. But the main difference, why we became the number one in the category and why we really dominated that entire automotive form seemy we we set so many bars and taught those other forums and the BMW sectors and the the Porsche sectors, we taught them how to monetize the audience. We, we taught them how to build a strong community and attract advertising revenue. So I had clients like Chevrolet and Cadillac and Goodyear and big name brands that were paying me to advertise on my website. So the main difference is that we treated it like a business. What started as a hobby, we started seeing real dollars come in and within within six months we're making 10000 dollars profit a month and we're like, whoa, I think we need to go get one of those. What are they called an LLC or I think we need to go do that. And I think we may need to create a separate bank account instead of just paying ourselves   Joe: Mm   Tony: Like in   Joe: Hmm.   Tony: Our personal account, like. So I love to share that because I want people understand that you don't have to have all the answers. You don't have to be the best entrepreneur ever. You don't have to overdose on YouTube and podcasts and reading books and attending seminars. You've got to just start you just   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: Got to start and you're going to improve with time.   Joe: Yeah, so the important things I want to touch upon about this before we leave the subject about Ellis one tech is how did you get the advertisers? Did you actually one of you go out as a salesperson, whether it was phone calls or in person, or did they actually care about you and come to you and say, hey, we heard about your site, we want to advertise.   Tony: And this is a little bit going back to we hear about personal branding all the time, right? Nowadays, it's   Joe: You   Tony: Like   Joe: Know.   Tony: The buzz, personal branding. You've got to build a personal brand. Well, I was already doing that, and so was he, because we were active contributors to an existing community. So to put that in today's context, we have Facebook groups, you've got online communities. Go join those communities and actually be a contributing, valuable member. That's always helping people by answering their questions and giving encouragement and giving advice and sharing your resources and sharing your network. And then you start to build that personal brand of being someone that creates value rather than asking for all the stuff. And whenever it comes time for you to go launch your own community or write a book or launch a podcast or whatever, that's your side of the fence. Guess what? You're going to have a really strong group of supporters of, you know what, this person I like them because they're always helping and they've always never asked me for anything. So here's the thing they're finally asking me for. I'm going to go support that. And that's the way it worked. And I didn't understand that. It's just my nature to be that person. I'm the person that I follow on social media or a forum or anything that I'm spending time on. If I see somebody ask a question that I know the answer to, I'm not going to be. The person goes, well, you know what? Somebody else can answer that because I don't have time or I'm just super important. And   Joe: Mm hmm.   Tony: Oh, that's too trivial of a question for me to answer. I'll let some beginner answer that one for them. Know, guys, if I'm scrolling and I actually see someone that needs help, I respond. If I have the time, I respond and and it takes me a few seconds. But those few seconds of me investing into that pay dividends. If there's a few seconds here, a few seconds or a few seconds there, and people start to see because what you don't understand is on a social community, especially on the Internet, is that thousand people will see that response over a period of time. Let's say you're in a Facebook group and somebody asks a really good question and you happen to have the answer, even if you think it's trivial or a beginner. But you answer it, thousands of people will see that exchange of information. They will see who asked the question, they will see who answered the question. And if they start to see this pattern showing up over and over, hey, Tony is always helping people. He's always answering questions. You don't think that's a building you some kind of a personal brand capital that you'll be able to use later on if needed, because you may never deploy that, but if needed, it's going to be there for you. So, you know, that was how we built the advertisers because we were helping the manufacturers on other sites by answering some of the technical questions.   Tony: I would buy those parts. I would install those parts. I knew how to. I would give the good and the bad of it and do a little review of those things. And we just answered questions on Web sites. And when it came time to go launch our own website, we were such contributors that they're like, you know, we're going to go see what they're doing, what's what's that's about. And we'd already established relationships with people who are willing to advertise that we actually had ten advertisers in the first week. And I was not the cold caller. My partner, John, he owned a recruiting, a technical recruiting agency, and he loved to call people on the phone. I was like, that is not me. I will build the websites. I will create the graphics, I will set up the servers. I will run things at a technical level like an engineer. And I'm a project manager by trade. By that point is like, oh, I'll plan things out and execute. And he was the one I was going to make the calls. I was OK emailing, but I still even to this day, I don't like making cold calls. And I don't I just don't.   Joe: All right, so the timeline now is you're doing your day job project, managing in the oil and gas arena, and you have this website with your friend and you are selling advertising, you're building. And it's basically if it if it looked the way it did, then that it does now. It's literally a forum that you guys built. But   Tony: Yes.   Joe: Now it's it's probably expanded. Where I see it has the marketplace and it has all these other pieces of it that's helping to build that whole infrastructure on that site.   Tony: Yeah, definitely, we we had access to all the activity logs of the forms that we created so we could see the response of the individual categories that we put in the community and the classified section. We were actually one of the first ones to do a class of five sections in a forum and an automotive forum, especially because we realized that hotrods have used parts to sell and they always want to upgrade or they're looking for a better this and that. So we put this classified in there so people can list their used parts, not new parts, because if they want to sell new parts, they need to be an advertiser. But the used parts, we're fine. And we saw that that really increased the the longevity of their visits by about 40 percent. And just give you guys a context of how busy this site was. On average, we had about 100000 unique visitors per day.   Joe: Same.   Tony: So. So if you're thinking about a speed shop or a car dealership or anything like that, imagine with a hundred thousand people walking through your front door every single day and spending an average of about 20 minutes, looks like that's how we were able to generate the advertising revenue because we had the data logs, we had the Google analytics and we said, hey, what are you guys spending on magazines and television ads? And they go, We're spending 5000 for a half page ad. And this automotive magazine, OK, cool that the automotive magazine has a circulation of about 250 copp, 250000 copies per month. We see that in two and a half days. And we're going to charge you 10 percent of what they charge. And they were like, whoa, like this is a no brainer. And said, even better, you don't have to give us content 30 days in advance ahead of publication because there's that waiting period for publishers to print magazines   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: And they have to have the content editors and make it all look pretty and put it all in the pages and number of the pages. And I said, so if you wanted to do and unveil of a product, you could actually show up that day and your representatives could log in with their account and post a video or something that they've created that day. And you could get real time feedback from the people who see it and give you questions and maybe even pull out their credit card. So, you know, forums and things like the things I created, you know, we were really were the the commercial demise of magazines in that regard. And we've seen the magazines, the publications struggle. But here's the thing. As much as I love magazines and I was a contributing editor for most of the automotive magazines for over a decade, what they failed to do was adapt. They had the brand name, they had the readership, but they were like, you know, we are super important and we're the media and we are magazines and nobody's ever going to replace magazines. And we're just super awesome in that forum stuff. That's just a waste of time Internet fad. And really, this is the kind of conversations that we would have with these publishers, say, hey, we're trying to partner up with you. How about we build out your forum and you've got the audience base? You could start mentioning it in your magazines and, you know, get them to drive to the forum and we can help you monetize that. And they're like, oh, no, we're not interested in that. Our business model is public catering and our ad rates are much higher than yours. So we make a lot more revenue than you and guys like me put them out of business. Guys like me sold my brands for millions of dollars when they went bankrupt. So that's a good lesson and adaptability and understand that you have to go where technology's telling you to go.   Joe: And same with the newspapers, right? They didn't move   Tony: Oh,   Joe: Quick   Tony: Yeah.   Joe: Enough. Same thing. Yeah,   Tony: They have the audience   Joe: I   Tony: And   Joe: Know.   Tony: They don't use it.   Joe: It's crazy.   Tony: The   Joe: Ok,   Tony: Men had it.   Joe: So I don't want to harp on this subject too long, but I want to make sure that the audience understands the the exit route and how that happened out of this. And so still, at this point, you still have a dual career, right? You're still working and you still have this website. It wasn't like this Web site took off so much that you decided that, OK, I'm not doing the day job anymore.   Tony: Now, that's one of the things people ask me is why didn't you quit your job? You know, when we were really the last two years that we're on this website, we're making about hundred thousand a year profit and. People are like, well, why don't you quit because at that point, my job was probably making 150, 175 range and I said, well, I also work offshore. I did a lot of offshore construction. So sometimes I was gone 28 days, sometimes with Internet, sometimes without. And so me being a project manager and engineer, I was very well adept at writing processes and procedures and systems that other people could follow. That's what I did for a career. And I said, I don't need to fire myself. So how can I create processes and systems to be able to hand these to other people that can do these in my absence? Because I don't can't guarantee if I'm going to be there or not. And so that's what I did, is we started to build a team at about 75 people on the team and we paid them in perks and free car parts and sponsorships and sometimes, you know, ten, ninety nine dollars just to do certain tasks. And that's what I did, is I fired myself. And what that did is allowed me to use my website as a consumer now. So I get to be at the same ground level and see what the problems were and what we could improve on and how we can add more features to attract more eyeballs and more time on screen.   Tony: And a lot of the things that Facebook and Instagram do nowadays, we were doing a long time ago. We just had to do it manually versus, you know, with A.I. So that's what we do, is we try to stay focused on how can we increase engagement, how to increase eyeballs, how to increase time on screen, and what was the hot topics and what are the things that we can do to create content that was going to keep them coming back as the value proposition that needed exist for them to be entertained or get some information. And there's a reason my website is still existing and I sold it. And still it is still the number one General Motors website to this day. It's been 20 years. But the thing is that I didn't quit the job because I didn't need to. And it goes back to that scarcity mindset that I grew up with, that if I can work the career and make, you know, 150000 plus like, why would I quit that? Because, one, we were the top of the market share. We're number one. And they're always trying to people trying to take us down or literally hundreds of copies of our website, always trying to take us down. But we are way ahead of these people. Right. And so I had the market share me working one hour a day versus eight hours. There was not going to ATX my revenue. It wasn't going to increase revenue at all. I had the market share.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Tony: So the hours versus multiplication just wasn't there. Right. I was realistic about that. I could have been lazy and played PlayStation at that time or Xbox 360 and built cars and done nothing but. But why would I do that? Is like in I wasn't where I wanted to be at the time, so I was OK stacking money, working to career that also I had to struggle to get that engineering degree. And for a long time I felt like I didn't want to waste that effort. You know, I built it. I spent this time and investment and the hardship I explained earlier and I said, you know what? I don't want to waste my degree. I was pursuing the corporate executive path in oil and gas eventually. So I was very good at my career and I was very good at entrepreneurship at the same time. And I always find that was fascinating because I I saw my entrepreneur friends on one side of the fence and I saw my employee friends on the other side of the fence. And the mindsets are completely different between the two. And I would try to cross over. So I was what you would call an intrapreneur, someone who's an entrepreneur that works within a corporation to try to always enhance, improve, evolve. And I was always met with resistance, especially the larger the company names game. I was working for major oil companies in my later career. I mean, I left in 2015 and it was always like, hey, if it isn't broke, don't fix it. You know, this is the way we've always done it. Like all these things that   Joe: Mm   Tony: Make   Joe: Hmm.   Tony: Corporations collapse.   Joe: Same old thing, yeah.   Tony: Same thing over and over and over. And it drove me nuts. And but yeah, that's that's why I never quit, man. I was good at doing both.   Joe: Ok, so how did you how did the approach happen to buy the website?   Tony: And that's a funny one, because at the time, very few people understood the amount of volume and dollars that was coming through a business model like that, because they just thought, oh, it's a cool car side. People are hanging around and making, you know, talking about cars. They're probably making, you know, 50000 a year doing this. You know that that's probably what they're thinking.   Joe: And   Tony: Nobody   Joe: I have   Tony: Knew.   Joe: To I have to make the point that when you did this, it was hard to do what you did. It was not the drag and drop and all of   Tony: Uh.   Joe: That stuff. It was not easy because I grew up I was telling a story the other day. I used to teach companies how to use an Internet browser like   Tony: Oh, yeah,   Joe: I   Tony: You   Joe: If   Tony: Know   Joe: I'm old   Tony: You   Joe: Enough   Tony: Know,   Joe: That   Tony: We're from   Joe: The   Tony: The same era.   Joe: Well, I'm probably older than you. But anyhow, you you did this at a really hard time. And when you're talking about the you know, the construction of the site and then on top of it being smart enough to keep all of the logs and Google analytics, I mean, it's hard to use today. I can't even imagine what it was like when you were trying to pull the data out when you did it. So I just wanted to make that point. I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I think people need to understand   Tony: Now.   Joe: That this you have to put it into the context of when it happened. And it was not easy at the time that you did it.   Tony: Yeah, yeah. For context, I sold the website in 2007 and I was 34 and multimillionaire and Facebook and Instagram came out two years later.   Joe: There you go.   Tony: See, so everything that you see now, easy, like I could just do a video and   Joe: The.   Tony: I could do targeted ads and I can find all these people like we didn't have that we had we had to rely on joint ventures with media and racing events and person type events to be able to to really build the snowball of momentum.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Tony: There was no like buying targeted ads. And it's super easy nowadays. Like, really, there's the excuses nowadays for entrepreneurs to not have success is like it just makes me laugh. It's like, come on, it's never been easier. The information has never been easier to find. All the stuff is being shared nowadays, which we had to go learn ourselves the hard way. And, you know, so the approach going back to the question of the approach. So it wasn't uncommon for people to casually email us saying, hey, you think about selling your website and. We never really thought about it, to be honest, because we're doing pretty well. We didn't need to sell it and we were really taking a lot of the profits, rolling it back in the company to make it grow because we had careers. And so they would always just just out of curiosity, once someone was, hey, would you like to sell your website? We always would entertain the question. We would say, well, what do you think it's worth? Because we're curious ourselves. Like we   Joe: All   Tony: Didn't know anything about   Joe: Right.   Tony: Valuation.   Joe: All right.   Tony: Like, what do you think it's worth? Like what's your offer? And most of it would be like, you know, I was thinking like Dr. Evil. We know when he talked about the one million dollars like this and it was like it. Going to go watch that movie if you haven't. You know what I'm talking about, but they'll be like, how about a hundred thousand dollars?   Joe: Right.   Tony: Thinking like, man, we sold advertising packages for bigger than that, you know, like, do you want to buy an ad package or do you want to buy the website?   Joe: Right.   Tony: You know, and and it just shows you that they had no clue. And that probably happened a dozen times over a period of quarters. And we just kind of laughed about it like they don't know. And we're not going to tell them what we're making because it's just they just have no clue. And and this is one company came in and they their eventual buyers were a little bit different in their approach. And they said, hey, we're looking at acquiring the top level forums and each brand marquee. We've already bought this one, this one, this one and this one. And all of those brands we were well recognized with, like it was the best BMW side, the best Volkswagen site, like top level names on par with the one I'd built for General Motors. I was like, whoa, if those people sold, then maybe there's some there's something to this one. Right.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Tony: I remember having this conversation with John. And as a man, we're kind of getting long in the tooth on this. I want to go build on some different projects. I want to do something different. And, you know, what do you think? And he's like, we're both on board. Like, you know, if they make us this offer and we came up with a number. Right. And I said, if they come up to this and we can negotiate it, I think we both agree that will sell as I call. So we responded back and said we'd entertain this offer. You know, what kind of questions would you like answered? And they actually asked if they could put their Google Analytics pixel into our website so they could see for themselves if we're full of shit or not. I said, OK, no problems. I'll put it in there to help them put it in there. And then about two weeks later, they called back and they said, we're at it, have a discussion with you guys about the moving forward. And I said, OK, cool. And so their initial offer was double our number that we had come up with in our mind.   Joe: Oh, my gosh.   Tony: And we're like, oh. So we had to contain our excitement, first of all. And act like, oh, OK, well, we'll consider   Joe: Right.   Tony: That we're going to have a talk about that and we'll get back to you. And the first thing I said is like, John, we need a lawyer, we need it. We need to get an attorney. That's a good with M&A and we need to have some conversations with him on these early contracts, negotiation things. And of course, luckily, he had a good friend of his that specialize that in Chicago. And we got on the phone we talked a couple of times, went through some details of the preliminary offer. And he's like, so you're going to counter right? Or like, well, should we? And he's like, yeah, there are first offers, always the lowest   Joe: Mm   Tony: Offer,   Joe: Hmm.   Tony: Like, what do you want to make? And so we said, well, what about this? No, it's like worst they can say is no. And so we put that back out to them and they said, sounds good to us. And   Joe: Wow.   Tony: We're like, damn it, maybe we should ask   Joe: All   Tony: For some   Joe: Right.   Tony: More. So of course, we're not going to be greedy because it was already double our number in our mind. And we sold them and then they said yes, and we're so cool. We went down that road and it was about a better one year due diligence phase of going through all the accounting and understanding, all the systems and processes in place and negotiating the contract and the details. And that was a really, I would say, a semi stressful situation,   Joe: Yeah,   Tony: Because   Joe: I can imagine.   Tony: Even though that the millions of dollars is looking in your mind, you don't really think it's real. Actually, because I actually interviewed somebody on my show yesterday. It sold a nine figure exit and he and I had very similar, even though he was a whole different range of the money. I made very similar psychological things going through your mind because it seems fake until you see it in your actual bank account.   Joe: Yep.   Tony: And even when you initially see it in your bank account, it still feels a little fake until you, like, spend it a little bit, you're like it's real, OK, they're not going to call me back and say, oh, we made a mistake. We need to have our money back. Right.   Joe: All right.   Tony: So does these weird things that we go through the exit companies and only one percent of businesses actually sell. And to hear this kind of experience is very rare. But I wanted to be really transparent and show people that because it's a it's very intrusive to go through that your books better be damn right. If you think you can lie about things that your company is doing or not doing, you're going to get discovered during that because lawyers get involved and they're digging through all kinds of stuff. I mean, they're literally looking for ways to devalue your company and you're looking for ways to add value to your company during that one year process. So you just got to be transparent about things and keep your books in order. That's the main thing. And learn how to build valuation in your companies. And it just turns out we were just doing everything right. We had the recurring revenue business model. We had presold ads. We were cash flow positive. We had proven database of, you know, information of users and their emails and our names, which increased valuation based on customer acquisition cost. It would cost them to go find those people in the same market. So we had a lot of things that were checking the boxes. And it was also a tech platform with a really strong brand, which also increased valuation. So we just did everything the right way. And the reason we did that is because we just did things like business. Again, it wasn't a hobby to us.   Joe: Yep, so you get to the final stage, it gets sold, they buy it, you sell it, you're still working. How long did you stay at your job once you exited this company?   Tony: Another eight more.   Joe: Eight more years.   Tony: Eight more years.   Joe: Wow,   Tony: Yeah,   Joe: That was   Tony: I   Joe: Not the   Tony: Actually   Joe: Answer   Tony: Had   Joe: I expected.   Tony: I had spin offs, I had verticals that I created from that acquisition, I had a retail company selling wheels for cars because, one, we didn't have an advertiser that was selling wheels. And I was referring a lot of business out the door. And I said, you meant I could just do the buying and get another LLC and create my own wheel company and sell the wheels. And, you know, that became a seven figure business on its own. And when the website came up for sale, I said, do you guys want the retail side? Or like, oh, now we just want the data. We want the assets. We don't want anything to do with retail. They're a marketing house.   Joe: Yes.   Tony: I was like, so I could just create another LLC and keep this business to myself. And that's and so I did. So I still had a seven figure business even after that. That was part time that I enjoyed that kept me in the industry, kept me relevant, kept me engaged in cars. And so but I was also in that pursuit of becoming an executive with an oil and gas. That was my my goal. And I was really good at navigating that. And I made it towards making about 250000 a year in salary. And and near the end of that, I started to realize that the oil industry just doesn't treat people as good as they should. And I started to have to be that person that had to make tough decisions on employing certain people. And even though they were high performers and I got to see a lot of shady things in H.R., the things that are unwritten that we always hear about, like ageism and like cutting people before their pension fully   Joe: Oh,   Tony: Hits   Joe: Man.   Tony: Because, you know, it's a it's a it's a it's a financial decision. It's not personal. And I get to see this multiple times. And it started to impact me. And it's like, you know, I don't want to support another industry that does not support people, that we're we're basically disposable. And when I was young and disposable and making less money, it was very easy to find me a replacement job because I was it was inexpensive and unexperienced as I started to make, you know, multiple six figures. And in my 40s, if I were getting laid off, it was typically a six to eight month sitting on the bench waiting for the next bus to come around type scenario. And a lot of times I was having to fire myself and put people in my my desk that was ten years younger than me and 100000. I was less income than made just to keep the bench warm. For me to return at the market turned around. I was like, I don't like being in this situation. And so, you know, I took a near-death experience for me, racing cars to finally realize, like, I don't want to go back to that and I need to go create more impact in the world. And that's what I did, is I decided I need to go teach people what I have passions for. And one was cars, which I built a lot of success in cars. The other thing has always been entrepreneurship. And so I said, OK, that's how I'm going to best impact this world, is teach people business and confidence around being an entrepreneur. And that's what I've been doing since 2017. It took me two years, even after leaving my job, to think about what I really wanted to do. You know, was it was it a nonprofit, wasn't a philanthropy? What is it that I wanted to do? And for me, I just love to be a teacher, so that's why I do what I do now.   Joe: So do you. I've thought about this question a lot in regards to you, if this if the site didn't do what it did and you didn't sell it and make that kind of money. Have you ever thought about where you would be today?   Tony: Yeah, I would still be working in the oil and gas industry for sure.   Joe: So   Tony: For sure.   Joe: With viewers, listeners and viewers that will hear this. What would you say to them if they were to say, well, he I mean, you did the work, it wasn't like you got lucky, but you got lucky in the sense that someone wanted to buy it. Right. I mean, and and   Tony: Yeah, it wasn't for sale,   Joe: Right.   Tony: So you're right.   Joe: So someone saying, well, what's the chances of that happening to me? Or how do I if that doesn't happen, then I do have to just continue on the path that I'm on. So what would you say to them about not getting a lucky break like that? How do you create that break for yourself to to then become this entrepreneur and service the world and do good things?   Tony: I mean, honestly. My book, Side Hustle Millionaire, teaches people how to take the ideas for businesses and create reality out of those, because I was always ask, hey, what do you think about this business idea and what do you think about this? And the thing is that too many people take pride in having ideas. They think that there's their super smart. They think they're genius because they have this idea. And, you know, you and I both know that thousands of people die every single day with brilliant ideas and take them to the grave that were never materialized. And so ideas really aren't worth anything until you take any actions and see some results from those. So don't give yourself too much credit if you're listening to this or watching this, if you've got an idea, unless you try it and it's OK to fail, sometimes failing is actually the best lessons. But for people who are employed when you're all your bills are paid, you need to start thinking about what the number is and the number is what is the bare necessities. You need to be able to sustain your lifestyle or even downgrade your lifestyle.   Tony: Let's be honest, because a lot of times people live above their means. What is the number? And I'm thinking a dollar number. What is the actual number like? Take your rent or your mortgage, your car, note your insurance, your food, your utilities, and put them on a spreadsheet and go, this is the number. And if it's 2000 or 3000 or 10000, whatever that number is, you need to have that number in your mind. Because once you start to make a profit in your side business that meets or exceeds that number, you need to really force yourself into a decision moment. Like you need to know that number is so important to know that number, because a lot of times we find that side hustlers and people that do things on the side will exceed that number, but never force themselves into decision mode. Because the question that you have to have in this decision is, should I just drop my career and go full time with this? And I have two reasons to do that. Right. Like you heard me give examples of why I didn't leave because it wouldn't have increased my income   Joe: At.   Tony: Like I was the number one in the category. I had all the market share. The extra hours would not have translated to extra dollars. It made no sense for me to leave. Now, if you do have a company and you realize that, hey, if I can contribute eight extra hours, maybe nine hours, if you have a commute to go to work, if I can commit nine extra hours a day to this business, what are the numbers look like? Does it scale? Does it make a higher profit? Because I'm already at the number I could actually leave right now. I actually have a parachute on my back that I could deploy that it's going to replace my salary already. So why am I staying here? And if the answer is like, yeah, extra hours will increase the business, it will also increase your freedom and your confidence. And most people really don't understand the confidence that entrepreneurship brings because I've never experienced that. There's something beautiful about commuting to your coffeemaker and walking to your office and you're in your own house, in your pajamas   Joe: Aymen.   Tony: And and waking up like you fire up the email, you go, Oh, I made three thousand dollars last night while I was asleep. I mean, it just sounds so unrealistic. But the reality is, is realistic realistically, when you start to surround yourself with people who are doing it and who could teach you how to do that, your eyes just start to open up and you go, wow, I remember thinking, eighty five dollars an hour at work was like a lot of money because that's close to two hundred thousand dollars salary. You know, I remember negotiating like they wanted to give me eighty, eighty dollars an hour and I was like, I want nineteen. OK, how about we meet in the middle eighty five. I mean I was at 180, 200 range. If you do the if you do the math. And the thing is, is there's this perception that multiple six figures is a lot of money and corporate and it is because I get it, the average income in the United States is 67000 a year. Some people will never make 100000 hours. It's sad to me because I can make that in a weekend now.   Tony: And had you asked me twenty years ago if that was possible with a laugh, it's like there's no way you can make a hundred thousand dollars in a week. And that just sounds stupid, like you're dreaming. You get rich quick, you join some kind of network marketing or whatever, like it's bullcrap, Tony. But now I've done it a couple of times, like why did I ever have these limitations on income and why did that exist? And you start to think about where that comes from. It's because of your supervisors, from your parents is from your teacher, your professors. They're telling you what you they think you're worth based on what the market will bear. Oh, you're a mechanical engineer. Well, you can make one hundred fifty thousand dollars if you work twenty years. So, OK, so your self-worth becomes well, I can make one hundred and fifty thousand dollars by the time I'm sixty, and maybe they'll give a bonus to me and my last five years as an attaboy and I'll get a Rolex. And   Joe: Right.   Tony: Why the hell we give Rolex is to people that are retiring. Like what do they need to be on time anymore.   Joe: Exactly.   Tony: Like thank you. What, why don't you give me the Rolex when I'm twenty, so I'm always on time. Right. So a lot of weird things. They were created in these boundaries and and so people tend to define their self-worth based on a limitation of their salary. Their profession, which is really sad, is really sad.   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: And none of these limitations exist in reality. It's that there's no such thing as a limitation. And when you start to hang around people that think like I do, you're going to challenge everything you believe. And it's going to be really hard to to unwind a lot of the things that were were screwed up with. But it's crazy. The reality of. It really exists.   Joe: Yeah, and this is why I do my podcast and I openly admit it to people, is it's because it's a selfish endeavor for me to be able to hang out with people like you and just virtually rub elbows. And at some point, hopefully we meet in person. But that's the goal, is to change the mindset. I watched my father just work himself to death. He literally was. I forget if it was two weeks away from retiring and had a stroke   Tony: Oh,   Joe: And   Tony: Man.   Joe: Was paralyzed on his right side. I watched him work harder than any man I ever watched. And I just I don't want to see that. I don't want to experience that. So I appreciate that. So you jumped ahead on me, which is great, because I want to know. So here's twenty seventeen. Your you decide that you're going to do you know, you're   Tony: The   Joe: Going   Tony: Coaching   Joe: To do   Tony: And the   Joe: The   Tony: The   Joe: Coaching.   Tony: Community building, yeah.   Joe: So when did you decide to write Side Hustle a Millionaire. When did you decide that. Well I have to write a book on this because that's a big endeavor. I everybody I hear that has written a book says it's probably one of the hardest things I ever had to do.   Tony: You know, the funny thing about writing the book. Side Hustle Millionaire was a idea in my mind five years before I actually wrote it. Five years, because I knew even because I was around 40 at that time and I was like, you know, I need to do something that helps more people, you know, before the Internet flex on Instagram, I was the one that would post driveway photos with 10 cars and things like that, because, one, I had some insecurity issues and self validation things that I had to work through. And I didn't ever feel like I belong with the rich people. And I had to prove that I belong with them and a whole lot of weird things that we grow up through. But besides, the point is that as I wanted to start teaching people how I got those cars, because the only people that were benefiting from that knowledge were my friends and like people I worked with people within my close proximity because one, I didn't like being on camera. I didn't like being on stage. I didn't like my recorded voice. And I had a lot of insecurities around that, too. And I became a highly successful kind of in the background, and I was fine with that. So anytime people were like, oh, you should go write a book and you could teach all the stuff, I'd be like, Oh man, but I'm so busy. You know, I've got a kid and a wife and I've got a career and I've got this retail company. And I would just make a a list of bullshit excuses of things why I wasn't really serving the purpose that I am on today.   Tony: And it was all stem based on the fear of criticism. Right. And so even when I go through this near-death experience, racing cars and deciding that I need to impact the world, I was still approaching it from a I need to make impact. But I was still being cowardly about my way of doing that, my method. And so I said, you know what, I could write a book. And that doesn't mean I have to be on a stage or a camera or radio or TV and I can just write this book and it'll be a good way that's affordable. It's portable, and I can get what's in my mind out to thousands of people. And so I decided in really November of 2017 I'm going to write a book and I validated the idea and use my social media to ask what they would want from me. And I asked them what questions they would want answered. I was really good at using my entrepreneurship, evaluating a product before I spend time on it. I did that. I applied the same principles to a book which is another product. And while I was writing the book, my editor, Mike, I was giving him a chapter at a time to review and he was like, Man, this is going to be a good book. I cannot tell because he's helped a lot of people become bestsellers and and one day he's like, they're going to want to interview.   Joe: You're like, oh, no.   Tony: Yeah, he's like because you might be on TV, radio, podcasts, and I felt that Stagefright, again, coming up was like, I'm in. But I'm kind of a daredevil anyways, and I said, you know what, this is a sign. This is this is a sign I need to go take care of this fear. So just like any other normal human with a fear or something or challenge like so just like most people with a fear of public speaking or any other challenge, they basically get on Google or they get on Syria, they ask, you know, how do we overcome this? And for the results, I said, join a Toastmasters or join a Rotary Club and hire a speaking coach. I said, OK, this is something I have to do. And and obviously, it was really, really avoiding this kind of scenario. So I joined Toastmasters. It's a it's a nonprofit that teaches public speaking and leadership. And there's local clubs all over the world and is really inexpensive. I think it was like 45 dollars for our whole six months. And I said this is like a no brainer. So I'll I'll try that. And so I said, if I'm going to go, I'm going. I'm not going to be a spectator. I'm going to make myself really uncomfortable. I want to sit in the front row and I'm going to raise my hand every meeting with, like once a week and just volunteer to do something in the front of the room and just make myself uncomfortable. And because I knew that the book was about five months out and I needed to get ahead of this. Right. So   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: So that's what I did is so I would learn a new tactic of public speaking at a meeting. And then for the next seven days, I would do videos. I would I would go on Instagram or Facebook and just practice what I was learning on public speaking to my phone and is really uncomfortable. And I did not. All those videos exist or like in May, June of 2017. And I basically just I just did them every day. And that's how I improved. And I used to be so afraid of just doing videos, I would do them in my truck. Somebody walked by in the park in like an aisle away, I would put the camera down and act like I wasn't doing any videos because I was so weird to go through that. And I would record myself like ten takes and I would finally get one. That was the best I could do at that given moment. And I would share that one. And and that's how I did better. And I did that for over a year. And now within six months of me joining Toastmasters and doing those reps and making myself uncomfortable and doing about a speech per month, I actually started competing and representing that club and the Toastmasters competitions. And I actually won and went three rounds like   Joe: Wow.   Tony: I went I was like fourth place in all of Houston, you know, after doing the club level than the area level that I went to district. And it was it was crazy. So even after winning a couple of competitions, I, I finally started realizing there might actually be something to this. Like I actually might be OK at doing this.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Tony: So it's me winning competitions to finally realized that. And like anything else that I get into, I just go all in. And to me, public speaking was the thing I needed to go get good at. And I focused on it. I studied who I thought were the best speakers. I learned from people to hire a speaking coach. And I did reps and and I actually became the president of that Toastmasters club. And I grew it to one of the largest clubs in Houston and had about 50 active members at the time. I was president for a year or so. I got to go from being transformed to transforming hundreds of people that came in and out those doors for a period of over four years of being in that organization. And and I just I've seen so many changes that most people really underestimate the the quickness you can change. And I would say for most Toastmasters, you can come in definitely afraid. And if you participate within three to six months, you'll be a completely different person. So it happens that fast. And I've seen it too many times to to argue the results. So if you're out there and you're worried about public speaking or doing videos like this or you have a fear of that, like go join, make yourself uncomfortable, do the reps and it is a skill is not a talent. When you hear someone speaking like I do now, it's not a talent. It's not something I was born with. It wasn't even a thought in my mind to be a public speaker. But I learned the tactics and the strategies of effective communication and how to use my vocal inflections and speed and volume control presence, hands. All the things that you never even think about are part of communication. You learn when you actually get coached and you actually it's a skill. It's just like learning a new language.   Joe: Yeah, and it was a real surprise to me, because I actually heard you say that you had a real fear of public speaking in it. I think it was a clubhouse room because you were giving advice to someone. And when you said that, I was like, I can't be the same person. I just, you know, I didn't understand it. And I personally think, you know, I come from the entertainment side of things. I own an entertainment booking agency here in Phoenix, probably one of the biggest ones here. So I was a performer my whole life. So it's not hard for me to necessarily do this, even though, yeah, a lot of people don't like how they look. They don't like how they're their own voice, all these things. But   Tony: Yeah.   Joe: I think you have a great voice. It's it's incredibly soothing the way that's what I liked about how you presented yourself in those rooms. It wasn't like I'm great and it wasn't like there's a lot of people that just sort of yell and they're like, you know, that's how they   Tony: I'm   Joe: Get there   Tony: Super awesome,   Joe: Exist.   Tony: And for nine hundred ninety seven dollars,   Joe: But   Tony: You can get the course that will make you a millionaire   Joe: That   Tony: And one   Joe: Is

Hear how you, yes you, can have a wildly successful business! Tony Guarnaccia and I had a hard time getting together to do a podcast for you. But once we did, we loved our conversation. Tony has an approach to growing businesses which he has developed and honed after years of working with small and large companies, observing how they anticipate what is needed and prepare for uncertainties and change. From his experiences, he developed a process called Democratize Marketing, a way to help business owners create strategies and plans that can help their businesses grow. Do you have a business? Or want one? Listen in! Watch and hear our conversation here Hope is not a strategy According to Tony, and I second this, you need to have a vision. You need to visualize what you want to achieve. You can't be it if you can't see it. Also, you need to know your market and what your customers and potential customers need. Then you become their best solution. More About Tony Tony Guarnaccia has helped thousands of businesses survive crises. Whether it was post-9/11, during the Great Recession or amidst massive company acquisitions, Tony has helped all sorts of companies navigate uncertainties and emerge stronger on the other side. As a child, Tony experienced firsthand the devastating crisis of business failure when his parents’ small bakery business failed and they lost everything, including their home. Its impact on his life was powerful. He determined he would one day figure out how to help small business owners like his parents learn how to run a profitable business. And he has. He has worked with the best companies in every industry, including Google, Microsoft, ADP, Ford, BMW, Mohegan Sun and Morgan Stanley, observing how they grow consistently and predictably, and also how they use adversity to pivot towards opportunity in order to survive and thrive in all manner of economic conditions. As a result, he has helped grow over 10,000 small businesses and a dozen Fortune 500 companies. His current mission, Democratize Marketing, shows small business owners and entrepreneurs how to grow profitably and how to leverage their resources to make it happen. He believes that by growing small businesses, together we can impact not just our local communities but also our world. In fact, Tony has become an activist for making positive change in the world. Throughout his career, he’s supported the Special Olympics, Food for the Hungry, Acts Missionaries, International Justice Mission, World Vision, Save the Bay and other visionary organizations, charities and causes. Where to find Tony You can connect with Tony through his website, Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn and Instagram, or email him at tony@meettonyg.com.  Want to learn how to grow a great business? Here's a start Blog: How Do You Grow A Business In A Fast-Changing Market? Blog: Best Practices to Scale Your Business for Growth Podcast: Alicia Robb—Move Over, Men...Women Are Starting Businesses And Doing Exceptionally Well Additional resources My newest book: "Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in Business" My award-winning first book: "On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights" Simon Associates Management Consultants website  

On this episode, we present you with five commandments that are worth of being written on stone tablets in your retirement plan. Important Links Website: http://www.yourplanningpros.com Call: 844-707-7381 ----more---- Transcript Of Today's Show: Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. Welcome into this edition of Plan with the Tax Man. Thanks for tuning into the podcast. We always appreciate your time, Tony and myself, and what is going on my friend, how you doing?   Tony: I'm doing well thank you. Just on my way out of town and going to take a little R&R on a vacation.   Speaker 1: You know we were chatting about that just before we got started and we'll let the folks in on it as well. It kind of tripped me out, I didn't even think that it might be open, but you're heading to the danger zone if you will, right?   Tony: We're heading to the danger zone, we're going to go out to Napa Valley, which I generally go out to once a year. And it seems like every time I go something crazy is going on out there and so of course recently with the fires that have been going on burning right through the Valley is... But they say that the places we're going to visit are open. And of course they're starving for tourism as most places are. But there's a lot of destruction out there. There's some wineries that have been destroyed and it's sad to see.   Speaker 1: It really is. It really is. It's kind of a weird spot to be in, right? Because these places, they need help, but at the same time people are kind of afraid to go and there's just all these different things going on. So kudos to you for going out and supporting them. And hopefully you guys will have a good time, but be safe for sure.   Tony: Yes. Yeah. It's weird too, though. I've talked to some of the wineries, I really kind of told them, I don't want to feel bad, I feel bad for you guys that I'm coming out to enjoy myself in the midst of all this misery. And I don't know how I feel about that, but they want tourists. If they can do it they're-   Speaker 1: Right. They're like, no, no, come on. They might want the welcome distraction too. So yeah, you never know. Well this week we're going to talk about something a little interesting. We're going to have a little fun here in hopefully a good way, but kind of following the financial commandments, if you will. We'll present you with five, for lack of a better term, really just commandments that are worth being a written in stone, if you will, from a financial or retirement standpoint and we'll let you dive into those and see what you can think of to do some sort of analogy or correlation for us. And so let's just jump in and get rolling. If you think about these in context it's kind of interesting. So you might see or read something on one of these tablets that might say thou shall not compare your investments to the stock market without the proper context. And that's a lot of it, we tend to look at things in a bubble we don't tend to look at it, I think, in the right frame. What do you think?   Tony: Exactly. I think that is exactly on point and I'll start out with an example. So my father, who is retired, and every day, he loves watching CNN, every day he comes in, "Oh, the market's up, the market's down. Why can't we look at what the market's doing? Am I invested in this?" And of course we do his planning and so he looks at that and he sees the Dow Jones jumping all over the place and I always have to remind him that for you in retirement, it is in the market. However, you don't have to be worried about that because you're not in it for growth, you're in it for the income and that we're not looking to get what the market's getting. We're conservatively invested and we have a lot less risk.   Tony: And so I think people just look at the news and compare their investments up or down. And even younger people, everybody always says, "I want to get what the S&P 500 is getting." Okay, well, so does everybody. And you certainly could do that with ETFs and all kinds of things, but if you're not willing to accept that risk and that volatility, maybe that's not for you. So I think you need to take a look at that.   Speaker 1: Yeah. It's all about understanding what your investments are supposed to be doing for you at that time. And that's a good point. So whether if you're 35 versus your dad there's a totally different set of parameters you're trying to accomplish with your exposure in the market. So again, proper context goes a long way. All right. Thou shall not give up on your strategy before it has enough time to play out. I think that's another one, right? The fast food world we've been living in for a number of years now, Tony, it's like everything's fast food, right? Relationships have gotten to be fast food. People toss those away like they're nothing. It's food, it's this, that, and the other, everything is just disposable it seems like. And so when things don't go as planned, we tend to just immediately want to swap it out for something else.   Tony: That's it. And it is amazing to me when I ask people what do you view as long term? And they'll say two years or something really in my mind short term.   Speaker 1: That's short term, right?   Tony: Yeah.   Speaker 1: Was it Warren Buffet, did he say, "If you're not prepared to be in the market for 10 years, don't be in it for 10 minutes."   Tony: Yeah. Don't be on for 10 minutes. And he's exactly right. And you know what, even when you talk to people about that and they say, "Okay, I get it. I can take a long term view." I think with our instant access, and we have access to things like you're talking about so fast, that people do tend to push the panic button a little quick and they allow that fear of, "Oh my God, I'm going to lose everything," to basically do the exact wrong thing and that's jumping in and out of the market based on current news. And those decisions mostly are emotional. And over the long term if you just stay put you're generally going to be much better off. And I got to give my own clients a lot of credit, during this crazy volatility since COVID started some of the younger, or not the younger, but the older people, we've moved a little bit to cash but for the most part we've been fully invested. And the market's gyrated around, but it really isn't that much far off from where it was in March.   Speaker 1: No, the S&P, you brought that up a minute ago, at the time we're taping this podcast it's higher than pre-COVID numbers and the Dow is experiencing a couple of good days here in a row at the time we're taping this. It's just, what, maybe about 1,000 points off the all-time high.   Tony: It looks like it. Yeah. It turned around there but yeah, I would say it's up 70 points as we speak right today and yeah, we're right near a high.   Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I think the Dow at the total peak was 29, I don't know, 400 and some change. And I think we're at 28, 300 and some change. So yeah. So again, at the time of this podcast, but that's, to your point, it's been obviously a super volatile year to be that high in February, take the 30 some percent plunge and then be gradually building its way back. But this gradual build back has also come with several days in a row of, or weeks in a row, of dropping and then weeks in a row of climbing. And I know that can be... it puts some stress on the ticker there if you don't feel like your strategy is correct, and you're nervous, you start making moves that maybe just cost you more money in the long run.   Speaker 1: So let that strategy play out. That's why you get a plan. The plan is going to evolve and it should evolve just like we are going to evolve through retirement, but you don't just make those knee jerk reactions. And of course if you're working with an advisor a great benefit to that is not only getting a good plan in place when you're working with Tony and you're talking with his great team, but it's also to be that sounding board, or maybe talk you off the ledge sometimes too. You guys got to sometimes go, "Calm down."   Tony: And we had that just recently with a client, she's an older woman and she really wants to, and this really didn't have anything to do with the market, but we kind of talked her down a little bit off the ledge. She wanted to pull a lot of money out of her retirement because she was really into remodeling her home. She's just got this passion for it.   Speaker 1: Sure, that's a big thing for people.   Tony: And we just had a good conversation about, well, I understand what you want to do and it's always nice to have a nice house, but at her age, and she's advanced in age, really do you really want to go all out on this? So maybe you just need to upgrade a little bit and get some nicer things. I think I at least provided a different perspective, she can at least think about it.   Speaker 1: That's a great point. Yeah.   Tony: Maybe I can do a compromise of some kind.   Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day it's her money, do what you want, but your role is to advise her, okay, here's some pros, here's some cons, this is some cons that I see that you might not. So exactly. All right. So kind of keeping with that theme of later in life, thou shall not chase big returns too late in life. I am getting close to 50. Next year in 2021, I will be 50 and I have to start, and I am already starting now at 49, I'm starting to think about things a little differently, not just from an investing standpoint, but lots of things in life. I think once we hit 50 and over we start to view things a bit different. And so I don't want to continue to look at my portfolio the way I did when I was 30.   Tony: Exactly. And that's a big point and I'm 53 so I've been thinking that way for a few years for sure and I don't know why we all of a sudden start thinking about, well, how long of time we have left maybe to work and earn money, but let alone live.   Speaker 1: Probably that 65 number that's just been ingrained. We go, "Oh man, that's only 15 years away."   Tony: Only 15 years. And so with the nest egg you have, wherever you're at, it's important that you don't get too, maybe greedy, especially if you're behind a little bit, and chase high returns for potential high risks.   Speaker 1: And that might be that panic button as well then. Right, Tony? You're panicking, "Oh, I don't have enough and so I'm chasing," and a lot of times, I know that you find this often, people come in for the first time and that's the thought, and you're like, "Let me do the review, let me do the process and you're actually in better shape than you think."   Tony: Exactly. And once we take a look at things and kind of lay it out and let them know they're really not in as bad of shape as they thought. That they don't have to get that aggressive that late in life and still be able to, if we can play it out and make some assumptions and some estimates, have a pretty good retirement. And so I definitely think people in their fifties and sixties really should make sure they're taking a look at that because you don't want to be overly aggressive, I guess I should say. Unless really that's just in your makeup and even then I wouldn't potentially recommend that.   Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, you're talking percentages, right?   Tony: Percentages, yeah.   Speaker 1: Yeah take some percentages. If that's your mindset and that's just really what kind of gets your blood flowing then have a plan in place that allows you to carve out a bit for that to kind of satisfy that itch if you will, but obviously we don't want to sacrifice your retirement. And again, that's the whole point. I mean, you can stress test this thing. That's the whole point of working with an advisor is you can stress test different scenarios and different types of situations where you can say, "Okay, this is what it might look like if you live to 85 and this is what it might look like if you live to 95 and this is what it might look like if there's a downturn," or whatever the case is.   Speaker 1: So there's ways to go through that, there's a risk analysis basically. And just that way you don't feel like you have to chase those big returns. So all good advice here, following these financial commandments. A couple more I think we can squeeze in for this podcast, thou shall not ignore the costs and fees, which we wind up doing. We all talk about wanting to save money on cost and fees, but a lot of times you're surprised and shocked exactly what you are paying.   Tony: Yeah, that's right. And this is one where most people know that no investment, no matter what, is totally free. Some people get kind of confused as well, I'm doing my own planning therefore I have no cost, and that's not true everything's got a cost.   Speaker 1: I think breathing even costs money if you break it down.   Tony: But it can vary and if you're working with an advisor, and we're no different, obviously it's just like your accountant or your attorney, we have to make money for our advice. However, it's important to know exactly how much you're paying for that advice. And/or if you're not using an advisor, it's important to know how much, say for mutual funds example, what their expenses are because that's a fee. And a lot of times, and you gave an example that, which is better, basically, I'm getting an eight and a half percent return and I'm paying a 1% fee or I'm getting a 10% return but I'm paying a 3% fee.   Tony: And everybody spouts off their gross percent returns, but nobody talks about the net. And that's what's important because that's what you get to keep and add to your portfolio. So I think you need to get all the information, you need to be able to understand how your fees or expenses are being calculated and know what percent they are so you can digest that. Because you take that out over 10, 20, 30 years, and the difference in fees can add up. And so obviously you want to try to keep them at a minimum, but you'll never escape them completely.   Speaker 1: Yeah. And there's no free lunches. Everything has a fee. And a lot of times folks will say, "Well, I'm only paying 1% to that point because that's what my advisor is charging me." And it's like, well, that's just the advisor's fee. Again, to your point there's mutual fund fees, there's all these little hidden things that are in there. And sometimes you might wind up adding this up and to that illustration, you might be saying, "Well, I'm getting 10%. That's awesome." But by the time you add everything up, you're paying almost four in fees, well then you're only making six.   Tony: You make six.   Speaker 1: Which still six is pretty good, but understand that. Just understand it so you're like, "Wait a minute, why am I not up 10%? Shouldn't I have 10% more money." No, you only have 6% more money.   Tony: And sometimes the lower number can be achieved with less risk and less fees. And so therefore it, for a lot of people, makes them feel a little more comfortable at night.   Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, again, it's a plan. What do you need? Like you specifically because everybody's different. What do you need to make things work for you? And a lot of times as Americans, as people, we always want more and there's nothing wrong with that. We want to try to get as much as we can in places but there comes a time, I think, in life, Tony, where, and talking retirement, where, hey, if you've got it in the bag, if you're pretty close to winning the game, then maybe stop playing or at least not playing as hard. There's no reason to risk it if you don't need to. If you're basically there, then hey, take the lower number but if it's the safer number, because then you know that you're cruising at this point. Now you're just enjoying, now you're jumping in the car and just taking a ride in the country because you can if that makes sense. All right. Well, good. You're taking a ride to Napa because you want to.   Tony: That's right. Because I want it. I enjoy it. And yeah, exactly.   Speaker 1: All right. Well, let's do one more here, thou shall not overlook the importance of rebalancing and diversifying. And boy 2020 has been a hello moment for balancing and diversifying, right? Because if you were diversified enough, you maybe didn't take a 30% hit in March.   Tony: Exactly. And with the people we work with we stress this and I think most advisors do these days because I think this is the importance and the value of having someone help you. And basically, I don't want to say explaining the value of the fee we charge, but maybe what we're worth so to speak. But if you just choose some investments and just say, I'm going to set them on a shelf for 20 years and never rebalance or never diversify you may or may not be okay. And the importance of diversifying and of course rebalancing it every year is some asset classes go up a lot more than others in a particular year and then you're over weighted in those. And then you start the new year kind of lopsided a little bit based on, again, your overall plan.   Tony: And you want to rebalance that and keep those asset classes, the exact percentages are very close to what your plan is. And then if your plan changes, you change those. But beyond that though, you want to make sure that whatever you're doing you want to be diversified over a lot of asset classes. Some people talk, no that's going to lower your return and that you can get better returns by just staying in one asset class, for example, pretty aggressive. But most people don't have the stomach for that and they just as soon re-diversify so at least you know when we do have these crazy fluctuations, something that you own is doing well. You may have a few that aren't, but that helps level out the volatility. So I just think you've got to make adjustments along the way and you've got to hopefully have somebody in your corner helping you with this because I think this is where more do it yourselfers don't pay attention.   Speaker 1: We were talking about fees as a second ago and then you mentioned the word value. There's nothing wrong with fees if you're getting value for the fee that you're paying. I use the cheeseburger analogy all the time. If you're hankering for a cheeseburger and you can go to McDonald's and get a cheap one, just understand that you're getting a cheap one. It's not costing you a lot and you're getting a cheap burger. Or you can go to your favorite mom and pop or something where they make this extravagant burger that maybe cost you $8 or $9 versus the $2 McDonald's one. Are you getting value for that $8 cheeseburger? If you are, then it's worth it to you, right?   Tony: Yes, exactly.   Speaker 1: So that's the same kind of idea when it comes to working with an advisor, are they bringing value to you? Is it helping you in the long run? Yes, there's costing you fees, but there's costing you fees in everything. So do the fees justify the value that you're getting, the advice that you're getting, the support that you're getting? And sometimes it's more than just picking a few things in the market, obviously. A complete planning review process like Tony goes through, all the things that he does, it's more than just as an EA and a CFP you're not just a stock broker, you're not just picking stocks. If you want that you can do that on your own. It's easy enough to do.   Tony: Yeah, in today's world.   Speaker 1: Especially, yeah. You're getting that holistic advice that's kind of the A to Z, if you will. And to your point, sometimes it's that sounding board advice like that story with the lady earlier. You're not going to be able to call up your robo advisor and ask, "Hey, should I remodel my kitchen?"   Tony: Yeah. And I tell prospective clients a lot when we sit down, because I take them through a series of interviews to determine if we're the right fit. But if I hear somebody saying, "Well, I expect to have returns at or better than the S&P every year." And what I tell them is, "You know what? You don't need me because I can tell you very easily how to go do that and you can just go buy a fund and you'll have that. You're going to have 500 stocks of which 20 will do very well, the others won't and you'll get whatever the S&P gets." But if you've got some things in your life and you want more than just that then I think that's where the value of an advisor is going to come into play.   Speaker 1: If you want some help with social security, the strategy that goes with that, how to do tax planning, not just tax prep, so that you're keeping as much as possible, how it's all going to work at legacy, all these kinds of things then yeah, that's what you're turning to an advisor for. Not just, like you just pointed out, to pick a fund and jump into the S&P. All right. Well, I think that's a good show. I appreciate your time as always. I think hopefully people learned something from that. And if you've got questions as always reach out to Tony at 844-707-7381 before you take any action. Again, you should always check with a qualified professional, like Tony, who is an EA and a CFP of over 20 years. So give him a call at 844-707-7381, or go to yourplanningpros.com and while you're there you can subscribe to the podcast Planning with the Tax Man. There's also a lot of good tools, tips, and resources to be found at yourplanningpros.com. And we'll finish it off with a fun little getting to know you. Tony, what's a habit that some people have that drives you nuts?   Tony: I'll tell you my real pet peeve, and maybe you can relate to this, maybe some of the audience can, is I think with all the technology we have, even on our phones, it amazes me in this day and age when you make an appointment with somebody and then they'll call you up or email you like 10 minutes before, "Hey, I can't make it. I forgot about it." Or I find it weird that people tend to... they can't commit. And I'm not talking in professional life at appointments with me, I'm actually talking personal. It drives me crazy when friends of mine they'll commit, "Hey, let's go play golf or something." And they'll call up 15 minutes before, "Hey, I forgot. I got to take my son to soccer league." You didn't know that two days ago? It's like, I just can't-   Speaker 1: It's more of a lame excuse to get out of that. I'd rather you call me and say, "Hey, man, I don't want to today. I'm sorry. I should have said something sooner, but I just don't want to." Don't give me a fake excuse.   Tony: When I was younger it never really bothered me but I notice it more now that we're all just kind of... sometimes we jump to the next best thing or maybe we committed when we were in the mood, now we're not in the mood. It's just kind of crazy, but I don't know-   Speaker 1: And life gets hectic. We get busy. It makes sense. But I think you're right, as we age I think our tolerance for, well our respect for our own time grows.   Tony: I think that's probably more it. It's respect for my time. And I try to respect everybody else's time as well. I try not to do that because I know I don't like it.   Speaker 1: I'm with you. It's almost like the doctor analogy with that, we get so frustrated, right? Your doctor's appointment's at 10:00, you get there, they ask you to get there 15 minutes early, you do, and you still wait an hour. And you're like, "Well can I bill you for the hour I waited? Because you know darn well if I didn't show up, you'd bill me."   Tony: I actually said that once. Because I was there for like an hour and a half and I told him, I have a good relationship with my doctor, but I said, "Doc, you're not valuing my time. I'm busy too." And I told him, I said, "As a business owner to a business owner, it sounds to me like you're overworked and you don't have the staff if you're constantly running an hour and a half behind," I said, "I know that this kind of stuff is different than mine. You might've had an emergency, who knows." But yeah, that is really frustrating.   Speaker 1: Yeah. And they're always, "Well we got busier today than we anticipated," or "So-and-so had an issue." And what are you supposed to say? Because it's health. But we all relate to it, we all go, "Oh man, I'm going to start billing my doctor for every time he makes me wait." All right, folks, well there you go. What pet peeve drives you crazy? We all have them, it's part of life, but we do our best to get to them and through them. And of course, if you need help getting to and through retirement, reach out to Tony. And we're going to wrap up here on Plan with the Tax Man, so have yourself a great week, stay safe and sane. Tony, enjoy your trip. And the next time we guys talk to you, we will probably still not know who the president is. Even though we're going to do our next session after the election, but got a feeling that this one might take a while.   Tony: This one might take a while and I'm sure there's going to be some good stories and some things to talk about.   Speaker 1: Some back and forth. Yeah. All right. Well stay safe and sane folks. We'll see you next time here on the program. Thanks so much for your time. We'll see you later on Plan with the Tax Man with Tony Morrow of Tax Doctor, Inc.

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Jay: Hello. My name is Jay Walter, and this is rebuilding. Oliver Wendell Holmes said, a mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions. So let's stretch our minds, find answers to problems, overcome fears, and rebuild our first kingdom. Welcome to another episode of rebuilding. I'm your host Jay Walter. Today we have a very special guest. His name is Tony Lloyd. Tony Lloyd is a TEDx speaker, podcast host and bestselling author of crazy good advice. 10 lessons learned from 150 leading social entrepreneurs. He is a former fortune 500 executive with extensive experience in strategic planning, talent management and leadership development. Tony is the host of the podcast social entrepreneur where he shares positive stories from under represented voices focused on solutions. Welcome, Tony. I appreciate you spending some time with me today. Tony: Well, thanks for having me on, Jay. I really appreciate you having me. Jay: Oh, it's always nice to have a, another voice and another point of view on things about, uh, rebuilding or, or, uh, taking charge of your life. Yeah, so, exactly. So tell me a little bit about what makes Tony, Tony? Tony: Uh, well, besides the insanity, I guess. Uh, so I, you know, I think in the, in the spirit of rebuilding, um, I, I had a corporate career and I, um, was, uh, you know, vice president in charge of learning and development talent, uh, talent development, uh, all those kinds of things. And I, I kinda came to this point where I thought, you know, it seems that corporations are focusing primarily on shareholder value, uh, in sometimes we as corporate executives, we do that to the exclusion of other important stakeholders like our employees or like the planet we live on. Right? And so, so I, uh, I, I kinda had a little existential crisis. Uh, this was several years ago. And so I made the decision to leave my corporate life and to go out and to do something else. Um, so I, I've had some, some fits and starts in different things that I've tried. Tony: I tried a little consulting work, but honestly, nobody cared because I really wasn't, I wasn't that differentiated from any other consultant that they could've hired. Uh, and I did a few other things, but one of the things I started doing was I started writing a book and while I was writing the book, I started interviewing people. And as I was interviewing people, uh, I came to believe that the, the, the audio files of the interviews would be highly valuable to people. So that's when I started looking into podcasting and I started the podcast and it's really, the podcast is called social entrepreneur, but it's really about, um, you know, how businesses use the power of business to do social good. So that, that was my, uh, you know, my launch of that. And, you know, today we're heard in over 180 countries. We just passed half a million downloads. Tony: Uh, and so, you know, at some level, uh, we've had great success. Right? Yeah. But, but about a year ago, I was really struggling with like the big questions. Right. You know, well, the simple questions, things like, you know, what's the meaning of life, you know, if you've got the answer to that one is a pretty good answer. Right. So, so, um, you know, I, I really had kind of a crisis of the soul in a way where I was just, I was really struggling with what's kind of the point, right? So I, I, I go to sleep, I wake up in the morning, I eat some food to provide calories so I can go out and go for a run and maybe do some work during the day. And whether I do that work or I don't do that work, you know, not a lot of people notice if I, if I produce an episode today or I don't produce an episode today, you know, people, people aren't gonna lose sleep over that. Tony: So, uh, it's surprising to me to know that I am not the center of their universe. So, uh, so, you know, at some point, um, you start kind of thinking, what is the point of all this? You know, that, that I, you know, I take in calories to burn calories to do stuff, to get to bed so I can go to sleep. So I can wake up tomorrow so I can go do that thing again. Right. And, and so that was a, about a year ago, well, it was actually December, 2018 when I really kinda had, um, a pretty strong awakening to that question. Like, what am I here for? What's, what's the purpose of life? Um, you know, why are we here on earth? And so that was a, that was a beginning of this journey that we're going to talk about a little bit, but I'll, I'll just kind of pause there and figure out if you have any questions about that or comments. Jay: Well, my, my question, that thing we talk about most of the time is, uh, when you make big changes like this, there's gotta be some fear of the unknown. And how did you kind of face that or overcome that fear and, and, and start overcoming these obstacles and, and questions in your mind? Tony: Yeah. Um, you know, I, uh, I had, uh, had a breakfast meeting with a friend of mine. His name's Michael. Very, very good guy. I'm going to owe him for the rest of my life. Um, but, um, you know, he asked me how things were going and I just sort of told him I'm kind of struggling with these existential questions. And, and, and what he recognized in me was he recognized anxiety and he recognized depression. And, and, and so he made a recommendation about a book, uh, and the book is called lost connections. It's by a guy named Johann Hari. And I highly recommend this book. Uh, I'll send you some links to that if you want. But, um, Johann Hari, he did a, uh, uh, multi-year investigation into the causes of, uh, depression and anxiety. And when, when my friend Michael said to me, he said, you know, it seems to me that you're depressed. Tony: And I said, you know, I think I am because I'm, you know, any, so why, why do you think that you are depressed? I said, you know, actually it, you know, I have a pretty good life, you know, I mean, really, I live this life of privilege. Uh, so I really don't, I felt guilty for feeling depressed, right? I, I felt like, uh, I almost don't have the right to be depressed. Uh, you know, I have a good family. I have a good, uh, you know, income I have, you know, lots of everything is working in my life. So I kinda felt guilty for feeling depressed. Right. Um, but, um, this Johann Hari he found, Oh, in what I said to Michael, I said to him what I had been said to me many times, which is, well, my brain is low on serotonin and it's a natural cycle thing for me and I probably need just some more sunshine. Tony: And maybe, um, you know, I'm not going to take Prozac right now, but I might take us some st John's worked and you know, maybe get my brain back in balance. And so he said, well, let me, let me just send you this, uh, interview with this guy, Johann Hari. And it was on a podcast by a guy named ritual. Uh, and Johann talked about his book lost connection and he had found nine different causes of anxiety and depression and only two of them had anything to do with your genes or your brain chemistry. So he had found that things like, uh, being disconnected for meaningful work or being disconnected from other people or being disconnected from, um, you know, from status and respect or the natural world. And he found all these different causes for anxiety and depression. Wow. And, and so it was really interesting because the story I thought I understood about anxiety and depression wasn't true. Tony: Um, and that there were these, these other things that contributed to, um, to these feelings. So what I did was I said, okay, look, a lot of these things are within my control that I have agency. I don't have to sit here and continue to live where I'm at. So I made this decision that I was going to live my best year ever in 2019. I just said, that's it. I, I'm just gonna, uh, live a year of personal best. And, um, so, so I, I, that's what I made up my mind to do. That's what I did in the last year in, I'll just pause here and let you ask any questions or, or have any reflections. So w how, how do you deem what your best year is? What, what makes you think that this is your best year? Did you read my notes? Cause I, I, you know, it's like you cued me up exactly for what I wanted to talk about. Tony: Um, so the, you know, I think that was a big, uh, question for me. So if I live my best year ever, what would that look like? And if I did, how would I know? Right, right. How do you measure your best year? Um, and so, um, I, I have every year what I do is I do this, um, self-assessment and it, it's made up of these, um, and it's based on a book by Michael, uh, Michael Hyatt and Daniel Harkavy. And the name of the book is living forward. And, um, and so, uh, Michael Hyatt has this sort of self assessment that goes with that. And I've been doing it every year, uh, 2017 in January, 2018, 2019. Uh, and I did it again at the end of 2019 to say, you know, how am I doing? And so, um, what they have is they have what they call their three circles of life. Tony: So the circle of beam and within the circle of being, it's like, you know, your internal self. And so, um, it, it's your physicality, it's your emotionality, it's your intellectual. Um, it's your spiritual. So you know, physical, emotional, intellectual, spiritual, those are all about who you are, how you are in the world. Then there's a life circle of relating. That's the second circle relating. And so relating is about marriage, fuel, parental and societal. Okay. And then there is the circle of doing, so that's vocational, avocational and financial. And so they have these three circles. And altogether within those three circles, they have these 10 domains. And so it's like on a scale of, and this is an odd number on a scale of one to 12, where are you? And the reason they go one to 12 is they have four core tiles, right? You know, a 25%, 50%, 75% and 100%. Tony: And within each of those they have kind of a high, medium and low. And so you can, you can grade yourself. Um, and it's a self assessment, but you can assess yourself against these, um, these 12 areas. Uh, I'm sorry, these 10 domains within three circles on a scale of one to 12. And so that's what I did. I have done that at the beginning of every year. And it just so happened right after I met with Michael, my friend who talked to me about, you know, depression and anxiety and all that. Um, he, he said, look, you know, um, here's this book by Johann Hari. It's about these different causes of depression. I made the decision that I had some advocacy that some agency that I could do some things about it. And so my measurement to begin all that at the beginning of the year was this, this lifestyle, if you will. Jay: Yeah. Okay. So that, that sounds very similar to our five kingdoms that, uh, I kind of told you about the, the inner-self that, the spiritual connection with deity and then your family and friends and associates, and then the world, how you affect all of those. And so, yeah, that sounds like a, um, an excellent way to, to really judge where you are when you start and where you are when you finish. So at the end of 2019, when you did that assessment, how did it turn out? Tony: Well, it was, it was a, it was really good. Um, so in those 10 areas, I had grown in my self assessment about 10% across all of them. And, um, and so let me just take one of those as an example. So in, uh, 2019 in physical, one of the things that I did was I said, okay, I need to get some sleep. And, um, you know, one of the things about if you, if you say, you know, what am I really trying to do here? I'm really trying to thrive, right? Um, I'm trying to thrive. And so, uh, I love Aryana Huffington's work on thrive and one of her main things like her only thing almost is just, you know, get some sleep, get a good night's sleep. And honestly, I think that I had forgotten, you know, I had, I had this global role in fortune 500 companies and I had flown all over the world and I do these phone calls in the middle of the night, in the middle of the morning and all this. Tony: And it had actually been years since I've really had a string of decent sleep. And just that one thing alone, just making a decision that I'm going to measure how much I sleep each night and I get, I, I got a Garmin watch and I wear to bed and you know, it tells me how much deep sleep I got, REM sleep. I go, Oh, you've got the fit, fit, fit, fit. Yeah. And so, you know, just if you take nothing else and you, you know, for me, if I took nothing else, if I did nothing else physically, that was a huge change maker. Okay. Um, I also, I, I really got serious about running, uh, in 2019, I ran 1,790 miles, which is the equivalent of running from Minneapolis to Miami. Now, um, uh, some people have told me that, you know, they could run that far if a bear was chasing them. Tony: Right. But, uh, but for me, I enjoy running and, and part of the running, you know, if you think about these different things of being connected, being connected to nature is a big part of that. Uh, I run with a group, so I get social connections with that. And, and so there are all these different things. Running is almost like, it's almost like an analogy. It's almost like a metaphor for all these other things that I do in life and it's connected to every other area of my life. Um, and I was, uh, I was using, there's a, uh, an app called Strava, S T R, a, V, a Strava, and it's for people who bike and run and walk and hike and all that. And you can upload your workouts to Strava and it will keep track of it, but it also calculates, for example, your fitness level based on heart rate effort, you know, respiration during exercise, et cetera. Tony: And according to Strava, Strava said that across 2019, my fitness level went up 218%. Wow. Yeah. Um, the other thing, you know, and we're just focused right now on physical, the other thing that I did last year was I started a plant based diet. So I made the decision that I wanted to, uh, eat whole foods and to eat Plains. Um, there's a guy, um, I can't think of his name, right. Nobody wrote a book called in defense of food. And, uh, he said at the beginning of his book, he said, you know, I could have written this entire book on a three by five index card because my advice about food is eat food, not too much. Mostly plants. That's his advice. Yeah. And, and, and he said, but we've forgotten what food is, you know, we, uh, doesn't come in a box. Yeah. Excuse me. Tony: Yes, exactly. Exactly. Pardon me. While I cough here, I'm talking about how well I did physically and on the coffee. Um, but uh, based on, you know, my diet, my exercise and everything, my LDL levels are down 29% for the year. Triglycerides are down 38%, cholesterol is down 40%. And my white was down 16.4 pounds. So, you know, in each of these areas of my life, I spent time saying, how do I really, um, you know, uh, live my best year. And so that's, that's an example on a physical. And so I could take any one of these and sort of talk about what did I do and how did I do it? But really it's about understanding that you have agency that you have choices to make, um, and that you get to make them Jay: well, that's, that's uh, what I like to talk about all the time is that you have choices. You're the one that makes those choices. You're, nobody makes you offended. You choose to be offended. Nobody makes you mad. You choose to be mad. No one makes you fat. You choose to put food in your mouth like I do every day. And you know, that's one of my struggles and one of the things I have issues with, but, but yeah, we all have this agency, this, this ability to choose. That's what makes us, I guess, different from many of the creatures on this, this planet. We choose what we do to the planet and to ourselves and to things around us, our environment. Tony: Yeah. You know, it's, it's interesting Jay. Um, I think that, uh, especially, uh, uh, in our, my dog is trying to get in my lap here. He's be crazy. Give me a bud. Um, alright. So, um, one of the things that I was thinking about when I was thinking about, you know, how do I get started on this, uh, is really kind of this, um, cycle of despair or cycle of positive habits. And so, um, the cycle of despair, the way I think about it is, uh, you know, thoughts lead to choices, lead to behaviors, lead to feelings and those thoughts, they, they impact the choices we make, the choices we make, they impact the behaviors we do. And then when we do certain behaviors, they create feelings. And those feelings reinforce the same thoughts and behaviors, thoughts, choices, and behaviors, right? So we get stuck in these cycles where again, and again, we're just doing the same things over and over again. Tony: Um, and I heard recently, um, uh, there was a guy named Joe, I think his name's Joe Dispenza. He has a, uh, video series called rewired. Um, and, and I don't know that I do or do not recommend that video series, but it was interesting, right? You know, uh, but one of the things he said I thought was really interesting is, uh, the average human thinks between 60 and 70,000 thoughts per day. And about 95% of those thoughts are the exact same thoughts that she or he thought yesterday. So we think about it like, you know, where are my car keys? I'm hungry, you know, uh, where's the dog? What's he doing right now? You know, is it time to go for a walk? Uh, you know, so, so we become habitualized as human beings. And, and part of breaking through part of, uh, of contributing in a bigger way is we, uh, we have to break that thought pattern first, right? Tony: And then that leads to new choices, new behaviors and new feelings. Um, you know, as I, as I circle back kinda to that, you know, the big questions about why are we here on earth? To me it's, we're here to connect and we are here to contribute, right? That Walt Whitman about, you know, you, you have a chance to, to, um, provide a verse, right? Right. You, you, you get to, you get to contribute a verse. That's it. Um, excuse me. And so, um, we're here to connect with one another and we're here to contribute. But to do that, you can't pour from an empty vessel. So self care becomes really vital. And, and the vitality and the, and the wellness and the, um, thriving. That's the thing that allows us to connect in healthy ways. And that's the thing that allows us to contribute in healthy ways, but it kinda begins within. Yeah, yeah, Jay: absolutely. I believe that absolutely. That you cannot give what you don't have. You can't pour from an empty cup and, but every time you refill that cup, it actually grows. So you have mornings give, which is, which is the miracle of what all this is talking about. So very good. Well, let's, let's take a quick break here and uh, have some messages and then we'll be right back. Let's talk about your, your book from there. Speaker 4:   Jay: Welcome back to rebuilding. We've had a wonderful discussion so far, so far with Tony Lloyd and, and now I'd like to continue Tony with a little more information or a little what? Tell us about your book, the, uh, um, crazy, good advice. I always love crazy good advice. So, Tony: right, right. Well, uh, there's not a lot of crazy good advice in the book, but, uh, but here's, here's kind of where it started. I, um, you know, I mentioned I have a podcast and the podcast is called social entrepreneur. And I had been interviewing people and at the end of each interview I said, you know, um, w what's one key piece of advice, something that you've learned on your journey that you would pass along to others? Right. And I, um, I, I began to notice that there was a pattern. It's like I kept hearing some of the same pieces of advice again and again, I began to stitch them together mind a little bit. So I took my, um, I'm kind of a spreadsheet kind of guy. So I took my a Google spreadsheet. They had all my guests listed on it and I wrote out the advice in one column beside their name. Tony: And so I went through and I wrote it all out. And then I began, I went back and I started categorizing them and then I sorted the spreadsheet and it turned out that there were like 10 things that kept being repeated again and again. So I thought, Oh, well there's these 10 key pieces of advice that, you know, the first 150 guests that I'd had on my show had given. And so isn't that interesting? So I started trying to write a blog post and this thing was just getting out of hand. Um, and then my wife and I were at an event and I'll try to fast forward through this pretty quickly, but my wife were, uh, and I were at an event and, um, it was a play. And the two ladies sitting behind us were having a conversation. My wife is a very friendly, so she turned around the interview, deuced herself to them. Tony: And at the end of the day, um, you know, we were just sort of chit chatting and they said, one of the ladies said, Oh, I, um, you know, work at a radio station. I said, well, I have a podcast. Isn't that interesting? Maybe we should have coffee sometime. So we exchange business cards. I didn't think anymore about it. Well she took the, the business card and she listened to my podcast and then she went to the president of the radio station and she said, Hey, you should listen to this. So the guy called me up and he said, look, we've got a drive time slot coming open 10 or I'm a seven to 8:00 AM in the morning. And he said, I would love to put you in that slot. Um, could you do that? And I thought, well, okay, I'm going to need a little help if I'm going to do that. Tony: Uh, because uh, you know, the thing about radio, and you probably know this better than I do to think about, you know, broadcast radio is you have to hit your Mark, right? You know, you have to, you have to come in just at the right time and you have to take that commercial break at exactly the right time. And you have to, you know, and mine was an hour long show, so there were two segments. So it was a first hour with a break and there was a second hour of the break. And so it was kind of complicated and I was trying to schedule all these guests and everything. So what I did was I decided to do a crowdfunding campaign and um, and a friend of mine named Tom who, uh, is Australia, he has a crowd funding, you know, like Kickstarter's a crowd funding platform. Tony: Well he has one called start some good and it's really specifically made for people who had social good businesses. And so I thought, well I'll, I'll reach out to Tom and you know, see what he thinks about this. And so Tom told me, he goes, look, your, your friends and family are going to contribute. Just get over it. They're going to contribute, but it's their friends and family that you want to bring in. And the thing they'll come in for is some kind of spiff and that spiff should be something that only you can provide. And I was like, man, what would that be? And I go, well, you know, I've got this blog post that is just like, it's really out of hand. And I was thinking, wouldn't that be an interesting book? And here's what it's about. And Tom, his name's Tom Dawkins, he's from Australia. Tony: He's like, yes, yes, I would buy that book right now. And he was like practically jumped through the phone at me. And so I was like, okay, well I guess we're going to do that. So it, so in order to put on our radio program, which I had never done, I needed to do a crowdfunding program, which I had never done. And in order to do that I needed to, you know, write a book is, so that's what we did. We, uh, my wife illustrated the book. It's really a cool book. It's got all these great illustrations in it and um, and it's really these 10 pieces of advice that we put together from all these guests. But the, but the title, crazy good advice. It comes from this one guy and his name is Looney liberos. So if you're going to get some advice from somebody, you're going to get advice from somebody may loony, right? Tony: Absolutely. So, uh, Looney said is his one key piece of advice was this, and it was a little different than everybody else's. He said, look, when you're going to start something big like a business, he said, your friends and your family and your mom and extended relatives are all going to tell you that you are crazy. And he said, and I'm here to tell you they are right, that if you're going to do something world changing, you have to be a little bit crazy to do this thing. And it is going to be, it is going to be a journey of perils, right? It's going to be the hardest thing you have ever done in your entire life. And so if you're going to be crazy enough to do something like that, you might as well make the biggest impact you can possibly make. And so that's where the title of a book, it's this crazy good advice. You know, like you'd have to be crazy to do this stuff. So we've got these 10 different pieces of advice and we've got stories and it's illustrated. My wife did the illustrations and it is just, you know, it's really funny because when people read the book, I go, what did you think of the book? They go, those illustrations were amazing. Like, did you see any words in the book? Did you happen to notice that? So Jay: it, any of that make any difference to the word thing? Tony: Uh, so the, so the beauty of, uh, of that is, um, you know, the illustrations, the way the book is laid out, and it is the thing that makes the book remark a bowl, right? So it's the thing that people remark on. And, and so that's a, you know, that, that's kind of the story of the book. Oh, and one last thing, we gave the book away for free as a spiff for the crowdfunding. And when the crowdfunding was over, we go, well, we've got a book. What are we going to do with it? Well, I tell you what, let's just put it on Amazon and we put it on Amazon and it turned into a bestseller. It's like, Oh darn, this is crazy. It's like, you know, I'm doing the little, like the little emoji with the exploding brain here. I'm just, yeah, it is. It is just the craziest thing. And so we, you know, we did the crowdfunding, we sold the book and um, and here we are today. So that's kind of the story of the book. Jay: No, that's, that sounds fantastic. That I can imagine people, uh, being drawn to that just for, you know, we're all looking for that advice of, of how to do the things we want to do and if we find some kernel somewhere, um, it's worth the, the effort to find that kernel. So. Absolutely. Um, so your podcast, social entrepreneurs, how, what kind of things do you talk about there? What, what's your, it's a good [inaudible] Tony: it's a good question. You know, you were, uh, you were, uh, in the, uh, intro here, you, you mentioned this, that we, we tell positive stories from underrepresented voices focused on solutions. And so when, one thing we try to do is you could find negative stories almost anywhere. You know, I almost, I cannot turn on the news on my radio in my car anymore. I just can't do it. Yeah. Yeah. I cannot drive and pound on the steering wheel at the same time, you know, so, so we're, we're really trying to find stories of, uh, where something positive happened at. But, you know, when I say positive stories, I don't mean, um, you know, this lady makes a pajamas for goats. And isn't that cute? Right? I, I'm talking about people who really make an impact. And so, uh, from underrepresented voices, we're really trying to find those voices that you aren't hearing everywhere else in the world. Tony: So I have interviewed people that are well known. You know, there's bill Drayton, the head of the Shoko, or, uh, Cheryl Dorsey, who's the head of echoing green. And so these are organizations that are big and global. And you know, lots of people within my circle of influence. Lots of people have heard of them, but I also interview people who, um, you know, the, uh, uh, uh, Maria Costa Cheka, she's, um, she, uh, has a, an organization called, uh, uh, Laboratoria and it's in Peru. And what they do is they train poor women to code so that they can become employed and, you know, have a skillset that will raise them and their family out of poverty. And so that's a, you know, a good example of that. Uh, and so, um, we tell positive stories from underrepresented voices. So often women entrepreneurs, often people of color, often, you know, just other people that you may not just run into every day at the mall. Tony: Right. And, and so, um, and who, um, focused on solutions. So we, we, um, we focus on a thing called solutions journalism and solutions. Journalism is this, it's tell the whole story, right? So solutions journalism is, you start with, um, you know, the story of here's the problem. So let's take, you know, climate change, or let's take, uh, you know, uh, extreme poverty or hunger or, you know, lack of access to clean water or any of these things, right? You start with that problem, but then you present and here's somebody who's working on that and they're making a dent in the universe. So the problem with most of the stories, like, let's take global warming, for example. You know, if you're driving down the road and you listen to a story and somebody is talking about climate change, they're going to talk about rising sea levels and they're going to talk about, you know, um, the coral reef is dying in a good talk about, you know, um, all kinds of crazy things, right? Tony: And, and that's all you're going to hear. You're going to say the world is, any of the world is ending, but what we want to say is, yes. You know, the climate is obviously changing the, you know, we can't deny that, but here are some people who are doing some things that are solutions, you know, um, uh, there's a guy who, uh, who has, uh, uh, a, um, solar panel project on the local, uh, reservation up here and they call it solar bear. And he is employing, um, you know, indigenous people, native Americans to build solar panels. And, you know, not only is he providing employment, but he is providing electricity and, you know, clean energy and all these things, you know, and, and what's interesting to me is I have been, um, speaking about, uh, climate change and about clean energy and these things. And the places I'm getting invited to are, um, and I don't mean for this to be a political statement, but they are surprisingly politically conservative. Tony: Um, that, that I thought that these would be people who would not want to have this conversation, but these are people who want to have a conversation because they know that there are solutions at hand. And, and so, um, you know, I was just in a Chicago County, um, uh, Wisconsin. Uh, they, they, uh, or Chisago County, Minnesota, right on the, uh, uh, Wisconsin border. Uh, they, um, they voted, uh, 65% of them voted for Donald Trump in the last election. Uh, and they were all ears and sitting at the edge of their seat to talk about clean energy solutions and how they could participate in them. And so, you know, it, it's something that goes across political divides. It goes across all these things. So it's really about focusing on solutions. It's not talking about, you know, what are our political arguments? Or how are we going to disagree? You know, that's really the thing that we're trying to do with this social entrepreneur podcast is to, uh, is to bring forth, uh, people with real solutions to real world problems who are really making them Jay: well, that's being an engineer by training. Um, that's this, the fearmongering is what I call it. Every, the world's going to end. Yeah. That doesn't right. Affect me. That it's like, well, yeah, I've, I heard in the 70s we're going to have another ice age. And, and it's like, give me solutions. If you, if you say this is happening, what solution do you want me to work on? I'm an engineer. I can fix things if you tell me what to do or tell me what you would like to see. Yeah. Um, so yeah, that, that's much more effective to me and I am of more of the conservative end of the spectrum and, you know, doesn't matter here, but, but yeah, give me a solution that you want me to or, or if I have a solution, listen to the solution, not just say, well, I don't care what your solution is. I, the world's going Tony: to end. Right. But yeah, I like that. You know, it's been, it's been interesting because people have been coming up with solutions about, um, uh, reducing energy cost in buildings, right? So it's not just about clean energy. Only only 25% of the CO2 that we're producing is produced through energy production. But if you think about, uh, other things, so, uh, you know, buildings is a big, uh, user of energy. And so if you can find ways to be more efficient, and here's what I really like about all that, and we're, you know, we've kinda gone down the climate change, so we might want to climb back out. But, um, one thing I like about it is a lot of, um, energy solutions are also the frugal solutions. And so my wife, we love to save money, right? So, you know, you tell me I can, uh, save money with some led light. I'm gonna listen to you because it doesn't matter what my political affiliation is. I want to know what solutions are good. It doesn't come out of my pocket. So much so. Okay. So, exactly. In your, um, in your greatest year, last year, what were some of the strengths that you discovered in yourself that you maybe didn't know about before? Tony: Wow, that is such a good question. Um, you know, part, part of what I think is I had an opportunity to apply the strengths that I had. Right. You know, it's, I, I have, um, because I was in this sort of, um, talent management, talent development. I had a ton of these sort of self-assessments, you know, disc surveys or, uh, you know, all these strengths finders, all these things. So I think I was, you know, somewhat aware of my strengths. Um, but I, I think I, it gave me an opportunity to apply some of those strengths. Um, but let me, let me think for a second about your question. You know, I, I think really, um, understanding that thing we talked about while ago about how our thoughts lead to our choices lead to our behaviors that create feelings that reinforce thoughts, choices, and behaviors. I think it's kind of like it was there, but I didn't see it, you know, like that thing existed, but I wasn't aware. Tony: It's, it's okay. I'm going to tell you really, I'm gonna tell you two really quick stories. Okay. So, um, a story number one, I, it's, uh, like July or August of 1991. And I am in Maine and I am, uh, driving on a little country road in Washington County, Maine. And so, you know, if you, Washington County is kinda in that South Eastern corner of Maine. And so, you know, you're near new Brunswick, you're near Nova Scotia. And so, you know, you're, you're way up there in the Northeast corner. And, um, and so I'm driving, uh, in this area and I've, you know, I'm scouting out this place. I wanted to go hiking on this trail and it was a trail had around there somewhere, but this, I ended up in this place and they call it the Berets in Maine. And the reason they call it the Barron's is it's kind of the place where the glaciers sort of skidded off the edge of the continental shelf there and went out into the ocean and it left behind sort of this scraped off rubble. Tony: You know, like right now there's snow on the ground up here in the Northern hemisphere and it's going to start melting off. And when it does, it's going to be like this gritty, ugly black who left behind. Right? Well, that's kind of what the ground was like around this area called the barons. And, um, and so nothing really was growing in that area. I mean there was some stands of trees around, but there were a lot of big patches with nothing higher than, let's call it 18 to 24 inches is just these little plants. Right? And so I'm, I'm driving. And what caught my attention while I was driving was I saw this flock of turkeys and they were over here in these little shrubs and these little 18 inch shrubs and they were pecking at them and they look like little Jack hammers over there. Tony: They're just bam, bam. I'm like, what are they pecking at? What is that? And it's a weekend. I don't have anything else to do. So I just stopped my car and I get out, you know, the turkeys go running off and I walk around and I get out there and I'm looking at these little plants and what I didn't know at the time, and I do know now is those are wild blueberry Plains. And so I was standing there and it's like a perfect, almost cold, almost warm day. Like the air is cool, but the sun is warm and I'm standing there and I'm looking at these little plants and I reached down and I pluck this one little wild blueberry off of 'em, you know the branch and I pop into my mouth and it is just like, you know, like sometimes you forget what things are supposed to taste like. Tony: Like you get one of those tomatoes from the grocery store and it's not really a tomato is like, you know, I don't know what those things are, but then you really get a tomato out of your garden. You go, yeah, that's right. Tomatoes, you know? So that's what it was like. It was like that, you know, the sort of sense of wellbeing and nutrition and deliciousness and all that. And so, you know, I, I really, I loved that moment. It was a cool moment. It sort of stuck in my head. This, this stopping the car in the cool air, warm sunshine, eating this wild blueberry. So a few weeks ago I was at an I hop now, I don't often go to IHOPs, but somebody had asked me to meet them there and so I met them there and so I said I owed her some pancakes. And I said, Oh, do you have blueberries? Tony: And the woman said, Oh yes we do. I said, well that's fantastic. I would love to have blueberries in my banking. So you know, she goes back and then you know, we're sitting here talking and pretty soon she brings the order out and here's a stack of pancakes. And on top of it is this purple gelatinous goo of stuffs. We're running down the side of it and there's this sort of like fake whipped cream sort of floating on top of head and it's just sort of dripping off the side. It is the nastiest thing I have ever seen in my life. And it is just, yeah, just yuck. And it really, like I had this picture in my head about blueberry, but this compote stuff that they brought out here, it really wasn't what I was thinking of when I thought blueberry. And I think sometimes it's kind of like that we go through life and we're served a lot of blueberry compote and we think that's what blueberries are until we really, really, really have a blueberry. Tony: Right. And so for me that's the, it was like this invisible thing that, that people all day every day going to IOP and they order pancakes and they asked for blueberries and they get this purple Google thing is on top of their pancakes and they think that's bluegrass. But that's not really blueberries. And so I think there is so much that is like, it's not what we think it is. There's so much unreal that we think is real out in the world. And that's the thing. It was, you know, with this sort of thoughts leading to choices to behaviors that produce feelings that reinforce thoughts, choices, and behaviors. For me it was like I saw the blue bottle, you know? Yeah. That's what it was like for me. That was my lesson learned. It was like, you know, all of a sudden I could see a thing that I hadn't seen before that was there all the time. I just didn't know. Jay: And you knew what it was supposed to taste like. You knew what it was like to what's supposed to be turning that, that knowledge that that's in there into intention, into action, into the feelings, into, into the result that again. Yeah. Wow. Um, yes. Well that was a long story. Just say that's what it was. It was good though. Yeah. So someone came to you and wanted to have the best year of their life, what, what advice would you give them? Yeah. Tony: Well first of all, know what that looks like. Doing the measurement before and the measurement after. Yeah. Yeah. So, so it's really, you know, um, the best year is really are you connecting, are you contributing and are you self care? Are you, uh, participating in self care that, um, and, and so, you know, then how would you measure how am I connecting? How am I contributing and how is my self care? And then, and then make a plan, right? So make a plan for, you know, here, here's on a scale of one to 10, here's how I think I'm doing on self care. In different areas on connecting, on contributing, or if you wanted to go take Michael Hyatts, um, you know, life score or whatever instrument you might use to say, here's where I am right now and then here's why I want to be, and then what steps do I need to take in order to get there? And by the way, in order to take those steps, you may have to think different thoughts in order to make different choices in order to have new behaviors. Right? So, so what do I, what do I have to think differently than I'm thinking right now? Okay. And then how to, so, Jay: well, we're kind of coming up on the end of our time. So, um, first and how do we connect with, how do my listeners connect with you? Um, we talked about a maybe a special offer you might have. Um, yeah, Tony: yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the first thing to know is, my name is Tony Loyd, but my last name is noticed that with one L. O. Y. D. yeah. And so, um, you know, people can find me@tonylloyd.com. Uh, if they want to email me, they can email tony@tonyloyd.com, again, spelled with one L. um, and, and one of the things I want to do to today, Jay, is, and I've never done this before, is I have this book, crazy good advice. Excuse me. And it's a really cool book. Now you can go to Amazon right now and you can buy it for like $14.95, uh, or you can get the Kindle version for nine $9.50. Um, or something like that. I don't know, they'd have to check the price on the website to know exactly what it is. Uh, but if somebody will send me an email and say, I'd like to get a copy of crazy good advice, um, I will for whatever it cost me to ship and handle it. Right. Uh, I will send it to them and um, and just send me an email, we'll work out the details and I'll send you a book as long as you've covered the shipping. Jay: That's a fantastic deal. That's $15 that you're saving right there just, just for the book. So, um, that's, that's a pretty good deal. Again, that my frugal wallets is, that's, that's not a bad thing. Oh, yeah. All right. Well, yeah, make sure you give Tony an email and a workout how you would like to get your, your free book. So, um, any parting thoughts? Anything you'd like to just kinda say in closing? Tony: You know, uh, Jay I, I just wanted to, um, part with this. I mean, it's really about rebuilding, right? So your, your whole mission here is to rebuild and, um, and I think it's something we have to do every day, right? We have to, we have to, it's like bread. It's never quite done. You can't make it and just leave it there and go, there it is. We're done. Right. We have to make it new every day. And so, um, you know, one of the things, and I'll, and I'll kind of close with this as my parting thought. Um, one of the things in, uh, like the 10th chapter of the book, uh, of the crazy good advice book, uh, I talk about that story about how we ended up with, uh, you know, somebody approached me and they liked me and they offered me a radio program and, you know, and, and et cetera, et cetera. Tony: And, and I am like, I'm kinda like Forrest Gump of business, right? Like, you know, I just sort of wander into these really fun things that happen, you know, so I've been very lucky. I'm really blessed to have all these things that have happened in my life. Um, but one of the things that I think from all the advice I have, these 10 different pieces of advice that different people are giving me, if I took it all on, I boil it down to one thing. I would, I would say this, that miracles find you while you're in motion, that it's, it's kind of like we are surrounded by this cloud of miracles, like all these cool little things that are going to happen out there. But if you're sitting on the sofa and you're sitting on your hands and you're sitting still, they can't find you. Tony: And so when you stand up and you get into motion, that's when the miracles occur. That's when the really cool, juicy moments of serendipity, you know, moments of synchronicity, whatever you want to call it, you know, the Wu juice, that's where it really starts happening out there. And, um, and so whatever it is that you've been thinking about, you know, that, that, you know, starting a business or starting a podcast or you know, becoming a speaker or writing a book or, you know, uh, becoming a teacher or becoming a nurse or whatever that thing is, um, you know, start, just start and everything else. Jay: Yeah. That's fantastic I, I had never thought about it that way, but that is absolutely true. Absolutely true. Well, thank you Tony so much for being with me today and, uh, I really appreciate your, your knowledge, your thoughts, your stories. That was, it was a fun time for, uh, for, uh, this hour for rebuilding, so appreciate you being here. Jay: as always. Thank you for listening to rebuilding a hope that you have heard something today that will help you on your path to rebuilding your life. Something resonated. If you felt a call to action, please take that action and rebuild. Let me know what you think of today's show or any of my shows. You can leave comments@rebuildingdotpodbean.com or email@jandjwalter.com I would love to hear from you. Comments, suggestions, and topics that you would like me to cover are always welcome. Remember, a dream written down with a deadline is a goal and a goal achieved. Is a dream come true? Until next time, I am Jay Walter and I am always rebuilding.  

Myths, rumors, and misunderstandings are pervasive in the world of Social Security. On this show, we’ll look to clear up the top 5 misunderstandings about Social Security. Important Links Website: http://www.yourplanningpros.com Call: 844-707-7381 ----more---- Transcript Of Today's Show: Speaker 1: Hey everybody, welcome into another edition of Plan With The Tax Man. Thanks for checking out our podcast. As always with Tony and myself. Tony, what's going on buddy? How are you? Tony: I'm good. How about you? Speaker 1: Hanging in there? A little bloated. So this is our post Thanksgiving podcast. How are you doing? Did you have a good Turkey day? And. Tony: We had a good Turkey day. It was relaxing as usual, try to eat, you know, these last couple years, trying to eat a little healthier, you know, and while still being able to enjoy it. Speaker 1: But isn't this the one day like you really could not be healthy. Tony: I know, I mean within moderation, you know, and we have been, my wife and I had been working on it hard these last couple of years, but I mean, you know, it's still enjoyable. We still eat and have a little wine and relax with family. Yeah. Speaker 1: Very cool. The average person eats about the average American, I should say, eats about 4,500 calories on Thanksgiving day and that crazy. Tony: I did not know that. Speaker 1: Yeah. That's a little Turkey day trivia for you. Well anyway, we hope that everybody enjoyed their Thanksgiving, and if you're checking on our podcast, we appreciate that. And of course, you know the great thing about podcasts is you can check these out anytime. Maybe you're catching this one, you know, the week after, or maybe you're catching it several weeks after, who knows. But either way, we appreciate it as always. And if you've got any questions, need some help, make sure you go to yourplanningpros.com that's yourplanningpros.com. Speaker 1: All right, so Tony, let's get into it this week. I got to ask you this. This is my little tidbit of, did you see this? I don't know if you want to call this a fun fact, a weird fact or what, but a man pretending to be an investment advisor in Nevada just got a cease and desist letter, I guess a few weeks back or whatever from the SEC. He basically is a baggage handler at the airport and we've been giving an investment advice to like a thousand people, like airline employees and whatnot and started charging them a fee. And of course that's when it becomes a no no. And so obviously that's fraud and yada yada yada. So I don't know, what do you think about something like that? Tony: You know, I didn't see that, but that is a question I would have is how are those people, basically taking his advice but you know how it is around the water cooler, so to speak, employees share information or yeah, maybe he came off as a really knowing a lot. But yeah, I mean I guess the moral of that is obviously you certainly wouldn't want to pay and a fellow employee or anybody a fee unless you really thought that they were, either in the business of giving the advice and things like that. It's basically, you know, with the internet and there's so much info out there, some people are out there and they study and they read a lot. And then they all of a sudden they want to dispense a lot of advice. So you've got to be careful who you're listening to. Speaker 1: Well I mean, I guess, I mean, if he's, you know, what he should have done, I guess if he was, you know, started off as a, you know, a friend, coworker, blah blah, blah, that's all fine and good if you're doing that. But when you start charging a fee is when it becomes, you know, that's when the sec starts paying attention and it's like if he had a good knack for it, go get the education right. Go get the license. Tony: Exactly, go get the education and then you don't have to worry about, breaking any rules, charging the fees. Speaker 1: Right, right. Tony: Yeah. Speaker 1: Then you're on the up and up. Yeah. It's pretty funny. Well, and of course now, Tony, you've been doing this for 23 years. You do have all the proper things. You're a certified financial planner. So yeah, I just thought that was interesting. I guess you can never underestimate people and they'll do some interesting things. All right, well, so on our addition here, let's go ahead and hit our main topic this week. I want to talk about just some simple misunderstandings with social security. I've got a top five here, call them myths, call them rumors, column misunderstandings call them just whatever, urban legend, I don't know, but whatever you want to call them. And I'm just going to have you give us a quick rundown on what you think as to these particular misunderstandings. OK. Tony: Okay. Speaker 1: Social security. It's broke, it's going broke, all that good stuff. What do you think? Is that a misunderstanding? Is that legit? What's your thoughts? Tony: You know, we hear that all the time from clients and the prospective clients cause it's out there. A lot of people talk about it. It's not going broke. You know, it's had some financial setbacks, there's no doubt about it. And I think the latest statistics are, is that it will be out of money right around 2034 now that doesn't mean that everybody just stops getting benefits. Basically what that means, unless Congress changes some things is that I think the latest assessments, 70 you know, if you're getting social security at that time, instead of getting what you normally get, you'd only get about 79-80% of that. Now Congress more than likely we'll probably act to fix that. There's a number of things they can and trying to do. Speaker 1: Yeah probably in 2033 probably like three months before. Tony: Yeah right? It's always the last minute. You know, and so, you know, you're 15-16 years out. It's hard to say is I think it's important to a lot of people. I mean it's important to me. I mean I look out that far and by that time, I mean I won't be quite full retirement age, but you know, start to become more and more important and people start paying attention as they get a little closer to it. But the short answer is it's not broke yet. Speaker 1: Yeah. Tony: I don't think it will go broken. That's just my opinion. I think they will act and fix it somehow. Speaker 1: Yeah. Man that just kind of hit me all of a sudden Tony, that's a little kind of heartbreaking. You're, you know, you're like, yeah, if you're 14-15 years out and I real quick I did the math and I'm like Oh I'm I'm 14 years away. Tony: Right, right. So you, you start wondering, well gosh I really want to even hopefully you're not just dependent upon that. Of course, but it is there and there and if nothing else you can use it as a longevity kind of insurance. Speaker 1: Right? Tony: Yeah, it's important. Speaker 1: Well I think a lot of folks definitely 55 and over probably even 50 and over are probably going to be fine the way it is, but certainly 15 under which I'm just barely under that threshold is going to probably see some changes. Who knows? We'll see. But I think the idea being is that if you are worried about it going broken, you are worried about 75% and if that's going to be enough based on the other things that you have, well then hopefully you have a plan in place and kind of address some of those things. If not, make sure you're talking with your advisor about that. Run those numbers and if you need a little help with that, of course you can always reach out to Tony here on the podcast and let him know @taxdrinc, he'll be happy to do that for you. Speaker 1: Okay, so a couple of more misunderstandings on social security. This one's kind of a twofer. This is kind of like to a number two, part A and part B if you will. And it's the saying or the myth that social security starting as soon as you possibly can. Tony. Well, darn it, that's just the best option. Tony: And then the next one probably waiting as long as I want to wait, you know? And basically, it's a personal decision at the end of the day and people ask us this all the time too. And most of the time we get asked, well I as soon as I turned 62 that's the first age you can take it. I want to go ahead and take it. We try to talk to him a little bit about, well you know, maybe that might not be best. Now in my opinion, that's generally best. Especially if you have maybe no other savings, you know, your life expectancy, you know, you don't have a lot of longevity in your family or maybe you've been hopefully not but diagnosed with something that you know, you really think you're not going to live that long. That might be a good idea. Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah. Tony: But most of the time, if you've got other means, delaying it at least until full retirement age, which is somewhere between, for most of us now, 65 and 67 is generally best because if you live, and we could do the math for you and actually do the calculation, but generally if you live till 75 76 by delaying it until your full retirement, you're going to be well ahead of the game. Tony: And then anything after that is gravy because they do increase the benefit a little bit. So, you know, I say talk to somebody, talk to your advisor and pick out what's best for you because it's not just one or the other. Speaker 1: Yeah. Well now you mentioned that, you know, changes a little bit. There's, I guess there's a Cola increase supposedly for 2020 right? Like 1.6%, which is not very much. And then of course also what you're talking about maybe is the break even point. Right? So running the numbers and seeing, you know, again, no one can tell exactly how long they're going to live, but it kind of gives you a rough idea as to say, well you have to make it to this age if you started at this point to make X number of dollars and so on and so forth. And that kind of helps factor that into, correct. Tony: It does. Yeah. And at least people know that, okay, I know that and based on what I have and maybe I could use some of my savings to supplement until you know, later age to get that higher benefit and make that decision. Speaker 1: So for example, if folks, if you're not tracking, so what we're saying is kind of if you turn it on at 62 and by age, I don't know, whatever it is, Tony, you tell me where it's at, but let's just say 80 you make X number of dollars. Or if you waited until 70 full retirement age, that would be X number of dollars at 80 you can kind of weigh out, or I guess what the break even point would be. So starting on 60 to probably take you longer to get to where it would be. But again, you have to live that long. Tony: You have to live that long. And that's the big gamble. So speak. But you know, the way I look at it is, again, a little bit on a personal level is yes, we want the income and hopefully, I won't be dependent on it, I don't think I will be. Yeah. By any means. But it's nice to have, you know as that, I call it the longevity insurance, just in case you have to be one of those people that live into their late eighties, nineties and people are living longer and at least you can't outlive it and you that you want that higher income. Speaker 1: Okay. So again, I know another misunderstanding is turning it on as soon as you can or waiting as long as you can is the best option. And it may be either one could be, but there also could be something to be said for a happy medium and also having those conversations to run those projections. And then of course, you know at the end of the day you are still kind of making a bit of a guess cause you're gambling on your life expectancy. So okay, so a couple more quick ones here and then we'll hop up out of here for our podcast. As I know people, if they are checking us out here shortly after Thanksgiving, they're probably bloated like I am. The Social Security Administration, those folks can help you choose the best strategies, claiming strategies for yourself. That's definitely a myth, isn't it? Tony: I think that's a myth and nothing against the people that work at social security. I think that they've done a lot over the years. They've gotten their website a lot better. They've got a lot more tools out there. However, depending on who you're talking to, they're obviously they don't know your financial situation. And they're not going to get into that with you. Speaker 1: That's the first and foremost. Tony: I think that's the biggest drawback. So it's nothing against them and they don't know what they're talking about. They know their system and they can give you some facts, but you still got to take that and get some advice or calculate some of the things on your own as to what's best for you and your family and your situation. I would use them for fact gathering and then, talk to your advisor. Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, I haven't actually been myself, but my understanding is it's a lot like the DMV. Tony: A lot of times it is. My dad goes down and he comes back complaining all the time. You know, he's down there for four hours. And then he doesn't get an answer and then it's, you know, he's got to go down again and yeah. Ideas and, but you know, in their defense they're serving a lot of people. It's not easy. And they're doing it with limited funds. They at times, I've got a few friends that work higher up, they're not on the front lines, but you know, they just kind of tell me some of the stories. But overall, they do a pretty good job of getting benefits pay obviously. But yeah, for info and things. Speaker 1: And just like you said, just from a time standpoint, I mean you think about how it is when you're at the DMV, they're typically not interested in answering a lot of extra questions. They kind of want to get to the, the situation at hand and get on through. And of course at the main point that you had, the areas obviously, hopefully the one that rings true with most people is that they don't know you and they don't know your situation. So it's not best to really ask them that. And of course they can't legally, tell you what to do anyway. All right, so final one here on our social security misunderstandings is this one's pretty common Tony, and that's that you don't have to pay taxes on those social security benefits. Tony: Yeah, and that's the biggie. You know, from the tax angle for us, everybody's surprised. You do have to pay taxes if your income is over a certain level. So it, it's one of those, you know, it depends. But for most of us, I mean if, if social security is just your only income, then no, you don't have to pay any taxes on that. However, most of us have some sort of other income, whether it be from wages, other retirement plans, pensions, things like that. And there's a calculation that the tax code makes us do. And then if you make over a certain amount, it's not very much either. You do have to pay taxes on those benefits and everybody is always during tax season, kind of crying. Tony: Yeah. You know, they've got a point, you know, I paid taxes on this money already. Now I've got to pay it again. I don't understand. You don't understand. It doesn't seem right, but unfortunately that's the law. So yes, you have to factor that in. Otherwise, you could end up short at tax time. So we do try to talk to people about maybe withholding taxes on their social security, like they would their wages so they just don't end up owing and have a surprise on April 15th. Speaker 1: That would be good. That would not be good. But that would be good done to avoid that surprise. All right, well I think you know what, that's going to do it for our podcast this week. So pretty short and simple. And to the point if you've got some misunderstandings about social security and maybe one of those ones we discussed or maybe some other ones and you need a little help, you want to have a conversation, make sure that you always check with a qualified professional like Tony before you take any action, you can reach out to him. If you're not currently a client, you can reach out and let them know that you have some concerns or misunderstandings and they'll give you a hand as best they can at 844-707-7381, that's (844) 707-7381 if you have not yet done so, please go to yourplanningpros.com that is yourplanningpros.com and click on the podcast section of the page there. Speaker 1: Make sure you subscribe to us on Google or Apple or Spotify or various other ones that are on there. Whatever platform of choice you like to use for podcasting, share it with friends or family whose somebody who might benefit from it. We give you a couple of little link options and ways to do that. So I mean you can tweet it or Facebook or whatever the case might be and we certainly appreciate it and hopefully you've got something useful out of this and you continue to enjoy our podcast. And if so, we'll reach out to Tony and let him know. We would certainly appreciate it. Speaker 1: And Tony, my friend, thank you so much for your time this week. We going to try to hit one more here before the holiday. The big holiday is upon us. Yeah, but I hope you have a good weekend. I'll talk to you soon. Tony: All right, we'll talk to you later. Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time here on playing with the tax man with Tony Mauro, Des Moines professional alternative @taxdoctorinc, we'll see you next time.

Tiffany Toombs interviews best-selling author, business consultant, and serial entrepreneur, Tony Whatley on this week’s episode of Take The Leap. Tony enjoys taking on the challenge of learning new things, and inspiring people to become the best version of themselves. His hobbies include travel, fitness, and high-performance cars. Want to connect more with Tony? You can connect with Tony at: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/365driven/ Instagram:@365driven YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/ynotdv8 LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/tonywhatley Email: tony@365driven.com Website: www.365driven.com

Our sponsor: squarespace.com/chelsea, coupon 'chelsea' OR  squarespace.com/Tony, coupon 'Tony' Watch this podcast in video format sdp.io/PhotoLies Our music provided by share.epidemicsound.com/Tony You can also subscribe to our Picture This! playlist to be notified every time we post a podcast video: www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw…InIxXGJEE-wX1ecEH

Special Episode – Tony Kaye Tom, Ken and Joe have the honor to interview Yes founding member Tony Kaye. Tony shares with us his perspective of the beginning of progressive rock in the late 60’s and the resurgence of Yes in early 80’s. Tony shares some insights from his Hall of Fame career including his return to Yes for the 50th anniversary (and beyond). Having worked with some of the best, most innovative producers in the world Tony has experiences few can rival. What’s that Tony? You were involved in Def Leppard’s Pyromania? Do tell! This interview with a prog rock legend and gentleman is everything we could have hoped for. We hope you enjoy! Twitter: @progpala Email: progpala@gmail.com Facebook: www.facebook.com/ProgPala YouTube: www.youtube.com/channel/UCw_Xxit3D8wbv-AcJ_7Z__w/featured Theme music provided by: Dave DeWhitt

Tony Harmer, the Design Ninja, joins Jessica on today’s episode of Smart Leaders Sell! Tony made his way from illustrating in the days before computers, to an expert in digital puppetry. With a career spanning consulting and training he is now a LinkedIn Learning author. His new venture is creating explainer videos through his new company Wizardry Ltd.   In This Episode The unique challenges of building a business around a full-time job The pressure to be everywhere online, and where to spend your time Digital puppetry and video platforms Podcasting as a platform Finding the right expert to help you Why consistency wins every time   “The perception of it as a hobby is a good thing” - Tony “A full-time job and a side gig was never easy to balance” - Tony “I think LinkedIn is the number 1 platform” - Tony “Producing a 12-minute video is too long” - Tony “Radio has always been a more trusted version of mass media broadcasting” - Tony “You pick the thing that works for you and you drop in other bits as and when you need” - Jess “You can absolutely scope out a market for anything” - Jess “I love it, but do I know it as much as I think I should know it?” - Tony Connect with Tony: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyharmeruk https://youtube.com/thedesignninja More Jess!Join my free Facebook Community Create a simple, successful sales process to take your business to six figures with Supersize Your Sales Learn how I grew my email list FAST - which lead to my business hitting six figures within 6 months! Content DisclaimerThe information contained above is provided for information purposes only. The contents of this article, video or audio are not intended to amount to advice and you should not rely on any of the contents of this article, video or audio. Professional advice should be obtained before taking or refraining from taking any action as a result of the contents of this article, video or audio. Jessica Lorimer disclaims all liability and responsibility arising from any reliance placed on any of the contents of this article, video or audio.Disclaimer: Some of these links are for products and services offered by the podcast creator

Episode 17: Tony Barnhart | Mr. College Football and SEC Network TV Studio Analyst Subscribe on  Stitcher (http://bit.ly/2qnGiRP) Rich Take On Sports Show Notes: Rich Spotlight: Tony Barnhart Prediction for college football top 4: Alabama Ohio St. Florida St. USC National Champion Prediction: Alabama Grew up in small town in Georgia (Union Point) Fell in love with baseball early on but once he went to a football game at the University of Georgia he was hooked on football Went to Georgia Southern because he wanted to be away from Athens which felt too close to home Planned on being a PE teacher until he saw a salary chart for teacher’s salary in the state of Georgia and had second thoughts Saw an ad on the student board for help in the Sports Department for the school newspaper and inquired Fell in love with seeing his name on the byline in the paper and knew he wanted to be in journalism and transferred to the University of Georgia Got his first job as the one-man sports department for a small newspaper in Union, SC Moved then to Greensboro, NC and had some of the best years of his career there before getting the call to join the staff for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution in Atlanta Became the beat writer covering the University of Georgia Bulldogs football team Promoted to Assistant Sports Director for AJC and learned so much on the job but was miserable not being close to the game and went back to being a beat writer for UGA in 1987 Most memorable games to cover have been the National Championships and the greatest game he ever saw was the Texas vs. USC game in January 2006 for the national title Social media completely changed how he did his job and a relative convinced him that he should be on Twitter His goal was to have 100 Followers and he now has over 122,000 Scott Peacock can be credited with giving Tony the name Mr. College Football after suggesting that Tony start writing a blog called “Mr. College Football” Prepares by compiling binders on each team with updated information during the off-season Sports completely defined his professional career and never dreamed that he would ever reach these heights Will celebrate his 40th wedding anniversary on August 14th and owes a lot of his success to his wife Maria Words of Wisdom from Tony: “You’ve got you got to be yourself. Figure out what works for you. Don’t try to be somebody else. Everybody’s road is different. ” Weekly Words of Wisdom: “The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one.” – Elbert Hubbard Social Media: To Follow Tony Barnhart on Twitter:  @MrCFB (https://twitter.com/MrCFB) Find Tony Barnhart on the Web: www.tonybarnhart.com (http://www.tonybarnhart.com)   To Follow Rich Take On Sports on Twitter:  @richtakesports (https://twitter.com/richtakesports)

New post from The eCommerceFuel Blog: Could there be benefits to going old school and connecting with people out of a physical store? Tony Rodono of City Prints Map Art and, more recently, MapShop.com did just that. Tony transitioned to working out of a brick-and-mortar shop, and shares his ups and downs of the shift, including interacting face to face with customers and managing a brand new team. Subscribe:  iTunes | Stitcher (With your host Andrew Youderian of eCommerceFuel.com and Tony Rodono of MapShop.com and City Prints Map Art) The Full Transcript Andrew: Welcome to the eCommerceFuel Podcast, the show dedicated to helping high six and seven-figure entrepreneurs build amazing online companies and incredible lives. I'm your host and fellow eCommerce entrepreneur, Andrew Youderian. Hey, hey, guys, Andrew here and welcome to the eCommerceFuel Podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in today. Today on the show, bringing you a discussion with community member, Tony Rodono, who is the longtime owner of City Maps, an online site selling beautiful map art, and who recently purchased a brick and mortar store in Charlotte, North Carolina with 8 to 10 employees, a pretty big acquisition for him. And I think in our space, we definitely have people that have those storefronts, but I'd say the majority of myself, the majority of our members in our community are probably online only. And so just a fascinating acquisition from my perspective. I wanted to talk to Tony about how it went, what was the rationale behind doing that, how's it been going, what are some of the challenges and some of the benefits of getting that brick and mortar business. Interesting discussion, so I hope you'll enjoy it and we'll go ahead and dive right in. Tony, so congratulations on closing your first brick-and-mortar purchase. April 1st, right? Tony You got it. Now, thanks so much, Andrew. Andrew: Yeah, that's fantastic. And the name of the brick and mortar that you purchased was mapshop.com, or at least that's the website, but it also has a corresponding physical building, correct? Tony: Correct. Yeah, everyone in town just refers to it as "The Map Shop". Andrew: The Map Shop, that's so cool. But before that, you were running a business called City Prints, right? Tony: That's correct. Andrew: Okay. And can you give us just a real...obviously both deal with...or The Map Shop deals with maps, but can you give just a quick overview of what both of those businesses kinda do? Background of Tony's Businesses Tony: Yeah, so City Prints, we launched that about four years ago and we make map art. So our pieces kinda look like modern, abstract art, but represent the places that you're most passionate about. The Map Shop is more on the traditional map space, so wall maps, folded maps and then we do, you know, a lotta custom maps too for businesses. Andrew: Got you. And you've been running it for four years and that was a lot of print-on-demand, you didn't necessarily have a storefront, it sounded like it was a pretty lean operation, right? Tony: Absolutely. That was kinda, you know, what my mentality was at the time, you know, really lean staff, mostly outsourced, no people problems, you know, work from home, no commute and hang out with the fam whenever I want. You know, complete freedom, low overhead, t-shirts and jeans everyday, you know, like you said, print-on-demand 100%, carried no inventory. So yeah, The Map Shop is none of those things. So it's definitely been a transition, but I'm having a ball with it. Andrew: So it begs the question for a lot of people, it sounds like their ideal situation. And it's not like you did...I mean, it's not like, you know, the reason I got into drop shipping was because it's not proprietary. It's got some great benefits of a lot of the things that you had where you don't have to deal with inventory, these kinda things,