Forgiveness of a crime and the cancellation of the relevant penalty
Paul and Donna are hired by Prince Waldo Charming to find his lost love - his only clue? A shoe. Cast List Donna Bella - Julie Hoverson Paul Bette - Joel Harvey Goldy Taylor - Rhys Torres-Miller Prince Waldo - Morgan Brown Alexander - Will Watt Rumplestiltskin - Philemon Vanderbeck Miss Barbara - Robert Cudmore (YAP Audio) Espadrille - Reynaud LeBoeuf Music by Somewhere Off Jazz Street Kevin MacLeod (Incompetech.com) Editing and Sound: Julie Hoverson Cover Design: Julie Hoverson "What kind of a place is it? Why it's a private detective's office in a time sort of like the 1940s, can't you tell?" ******************************************** PUMPS AND SPECTATORS - B&B Investigates, episode 2 Cast: Announcer Donna Bella Paul Bette Goldy Tailor - secretary Prince Waldo Charming Baron Alexander/Cindy Espadrille gruff "stepsister" Barbara, housemother/fairy godmother OLIVIA Did you have any trouble finding it? What do you mean, what kind of a place is it? Why, it's a Detective Agency, can't you tell? MUSIC Scene 1. SOUND PHONE RINGS, PICKS UP GOLDY B&B Investigations, may I help you? [beat, then turns belligerent] Look, it ain't gonna happen. ... No. Because the boss don't help no one find tarts. Nope. Never. SOUND HANGS UP DONNA Another missing good time girl? GOLDY Nahhh. Queen of hearts. Ya know. DONNA Oh. Patticakes. Well, if anything real comes in, I can handle it. [annoyed] Just 'cause Paul's not back from the enchanted brute convention as early as he was supposed to be doesn't mean the office shuts down. He may be off doing who knows what with his furred and fanged cronies, but I'm sure he knows he can trust me to take on whatever-- MUSIC FOR VOICEOVER Scene 2. GOLDY Man, she had it bad. A case of sea green envy for what the boss might be getting up to with his old college chums. So what they were mostly frogs, bears, and the occasional walrus - she'd heard the sort of thing they used to get up to-- DONNA What are you doing? GOLDY Filling in. The boss should be back any minute, and then -- DONNA Look, I don't need anyone else horning in on my - our voiceovers. GOLDY I just figured you might not want to be the one pouring your heart out in a narrative conceit.... DONNA So you thought you'd pour it out for me? [sarcastic] Thanx. Scene 3. SOUND DOOR OPENS, JINGLE OF BELL MUSIC ENDS ALEXANDER Pardon the interruption, ladies. May I announce Prince Waldo Charming? SOUND STRIDES REGALLY IN, FOLLOWED BY AN ENDLESS ENTOURAGE. DONNA Did you have to bring the whole box of toy soldiers? The office is only so big. ALEXANDER [consults with the prince, then] Atten-hut! About face! March. SOUND ENDLESS FEET LEAVE AGAIN ALEXANDER The prince apologizes for the intrusion, but he prefers to keep this as informal and ‑ahem- low-profile as possible. DONNA Sure. I can see that. Why don't you step into the office over here? MUSIC FOR VOICEOVER Scene 4. DONNA So this was the infamous prince Waldo - the biggest royal catch of the last eight fishing seasons, and far too wily to let himself get hooked. Every princess, rich society dame, screen siren, and various other lesser gold diggers had set their bait for him, and he swam serenely past them all. I'm not among the anglers myself, since I already had my own trophy in sight- my own partner, Paul Bette, away now drinking with his cronies and doing whatever they please in the name of "old times". GOLDY [side of the mouth] You're staring. DONNA Huh? GOLDY [side of the mouth] He's about to get a restraining order. DONNA Oh, um-- Office, right. MUSIC OUT Scene 5. SOUND OFFICE DOOR CLOSES DONNA Well? What can I do for you? PRINCE Coffee? DONNA Certainly. SOUND CLICK OF INTERCOM GOLDY A package just came for you. DONNA Busy now. Goldy? Three coffees, please? One too hot, and two just right? Yes. SOUND INTERCOM OUT DONNA So, what brings you to a private investigator? PRINCE I don't think we need to discuss it until he arrives. DONNA [barely polite] What? [exasperated noise] He is due back soon, but I can help you just as well. My name's on the door too. Well, my initial, anyway. PRINCE [bland, disinterested] Oh? Lovely. I hope you don't mind, but I find this is really a masculine sort of problem. DONNA There are potions for that, you know. ALEXANDER [incensed] Young lady, what are you intimating? DONNA That maybe he doesn't live up to his name? ALEXANDER What's wrong with Waldo? DONNA I meant Charming. PRINCE I'll have you know-- SOUND DOOR SLAMS OPEN PAUL Coffee? Donna? Why don't you let me deal with these good gentlemen. DONNA What? PAUL [muttered] Go to voiceover. Scene 6. MUSIC FOR VOICEOVER DONNA [spitting words] So I left the boys to it. PAUL [vo] What Donna didn't know was that I'd been listening on the intercom and knew she'd been about to scratch the eyes out of a very powerful prince-- DONNA It wasn't his eyes I'd be aiming for-- PAUL And it wouldn't do us any good to get on his wrong side. DONNA Does he have a right one? PAUL So rather than subject her to more of the prince's royaler-than-thou attitude, I decided to step in and let her off the hook. DONNA [softening] Oh! PAUL Scoot. DONNA Leave the intercom on. [blows him a kiss] VOICEOVER MUSIC FADES Scene 7. DONNA I'll just scoot then and go get my nails done or something, shall I? PRINCE While nothing could possibly enhance your already considerable beauty, I'm certain that's precisely what you need. [kisses her hand] SOUND FOOTSTEPS, DOOR Scene 8. DONNA Yup. Definitely need to get my nails sharpened. GOLDY Come on. Let's hear what they have to say-- PRINCE [on intercom] Bit of a temper, has she, that girl? PAUL [on intercom, fading to normal voice halfway through] You don't know the half of it. She's passionate about everything. PRINCE Ah. Well, then. Let me get down to the problem at hand. I think you will understand, Mr., um-- PAUL Bette. Paul Bette. Just call me Paul if you like. PRINCE Paul. Quite. And you may call me Prince Charming. PAUL Charmed. [waits for a laugh, nothing] Ah. Your case? PRINCE Well, I have a passing acquaintance with an old school chum of yours, Prince Freddie Grenouille, and he says you are top of the line - both for cleverness and for ... ahem... discretion. PAUL Absolutely. Anything you say won't leave this room. PRINCE Good. I'm sorry to take so long to come to the point here, but this is a very delicate and stressful situation, and I am truly truly desperate. PAUL Go on. Scene 9. MUSIC FOR VOICEOVER PAUL I'd seen it all, from paternity suits to clearing up the occasional "carriage under the influence" charge. And the royals were often the worst. They could get away with pretty much anything, as long as they were willing to risk the occasional fairy charm or gypsy curse. MUSIC CHANGES DONNA But Charming had never been a "bad boy" - at least not in any way that made it into the scandal rags-- PAUL Hey, what's with the-- DONNA My new voiceover music just arrived by special messenger. I'm trying out a couple of different pieces. What do you think? PAUL Um... DONNA You don't like it. PAUL It's a little ... perky. DONNA Fine. Go ahead and finish up. PAUL Are you ...annoyed? DONNA [snapping] No. VOICEOVER MUSIC CHANGES BACK TO NORMAL PAUL Charming did have a nearly spotless record. He was an athlete - Greco-roman wrestling, fencing, and polo, a supporter of the arts - even acted in a few charity plays from time to time. A general bon vivant. No dark side, or so everyone thought... VOICEOVER MUSIC OUT Scene 10. PRINCE [vibrant] So when I danced with her last night, it was like we'd known each other for ever! PAUL Did you happen to catch her name? PRINCE Only Cindy. When I asked her last name, she merely smiled and changed the subject - she was so alluring! PAUL And you want me to-- PRINCE [desperate] Find her. I must see her again. You can't possibly understand the pressure a thirty-uh-something prince is under to find a bride. PAUL I can see that would be awkward. PRINCE Women are constantly being shoved at me from all sides, and - frankly? I can't stand most of them. They're such insipid little birds. They tell me how fascinating I am, and then proceed to show they know nothing at all about me. They profess to like all the things I like, then don't even know how to spell jai-alai, let alone play it. PRINCE [continued] I've spent years carefully keeping clear of marriage, since it would mean I'd have to spend my entire life with a silly little twit, and would be obligated to listen to her chirp. PAUL And this Cindy? PRINCE [raptured] Completely different. She dressed marvelously, but didn't feel compelled to give me the names of all her tailors. She danced like a dream, but didn't demand I take her for one more spin around the floor, or suggest we walk out on the balcony. And when she said she liked the things I like, she - she actually did! PAUL Can you give me a description? PRINCE About my height - in heels - long glossy dark chestnut hair - a few shades darker than your young lady's auburn - rather like Alexander's here - huge luminous eyes, and long artist's fingers on very strong hands. PAUL Hmm. Alexander, was it? ALEXANDER [slightly panicky] Sir? PAUL Can you add anything? ALEXANDER I wasn't-- I was with a sick friend last night. PAUL Ah. That's awkward. [to prince] Do you have any other clue to her identity? PRINCE Oh, yes. Alexander, the bag. ALEXANDER Sir. SOUND BAG PLOPPED ONTO DESK, SOMETHING PULLED OUT PAUL A... shoe. PRINCE She ran away at the stroke of midnight, and left it behind. PAUL Can I keep this? PRINCE But - she'll need it, when I find her again. PAUL I mean to go over it for clues. I'll get it back to you. PRINCE [sigh of relief] Well, yes, then. I thought-- nevermind. PAUL I have my own female troubles - I have no plans to try and horn in on yours. ALEXANDER You think any woman would throw over [too warm] such a Charming price, for a big brute of a private eye? PAUL [chastened] No. [tries to chuckle] Course not. But I do have to warn you, sire-- PRINCE Yes? PAUL This girl. If she deliberately made herself such a mystery, there may very well be a good reason. PRINCE like what? PAUL She could be anything - a commoner, a ghost, a transformed hedgehog-- ALEXANDER Nonsense! PAUL The point is, you need to face reality and understand that there could be something very shady about her. PRINCE I don't care. She's the only woman I've ever felt this way about, and I plan to marry her - come what may. You find her for me. I shall handle the rest. Scene 11. MUSIC FOR VOICEOVER PAUL Chauvinist or not, Charming was determined, in that way that only princes in love can be. It was that particular brand of love that drives one to climb unclimbable mountains and fight unkillable dragons, and what do they get at the end? Married. MUSIC CHANGES DONNA Like Charming said, most princesses were simpering idiots with more hair than brains, and I should know - I may not be one myself, but I went to the same prep school. PAUL This? You decided on this? DONNA Give me a break. I can't tell how they're gonna sound until I try them out. PAUL This is awful. DONNA Fine. Let me see the shoe, and we'll go on from there. MUSIC OUT Scene 12. SOUND SHOE SET ON DESK PAUL There. DONNA Nice. SOUND HE SITS IN CHAIR PAUL Do you think it's a little... large? DONNA A bit bigger than mine. PAUL Really, I guess I never really-- DONNA Look at my feet? PAUL [leering a bit] I never make it down that far... SOUND SHE SITS UP ON DESK DONNA Really? PAUL Really. [slight growl] DONNA Question. When I left, did the prince and his friend -uh- make it down that far? PAUL What do you mean? DONNA What were they looking at? PAUL They just watched you leave. DONNA I didn't hear you growl-- PAUL Well, of course-- [suddenly worried] Oh-- you actually notice when I do that? DONNA [dreamy] Of course I do. I don't mind when you-- um, get annoyed on my behalf. PAUL [deep breath] I think we're getting a bit off track here. DONNA Right. Shoe. PAUL No, left. Shoe. Anything? DONNA It's a Dolce-geppeto. They're pricey, but not extortionate. Too bad she didn't mention her dressmaker - that would have been a much better clue. PAUL Well, how many places sell these shoes? DONNA Assuming she's local, maybe six of the big boutiques downtown. PAUL You wanna take those, then? Go ask questions? DONNA Um... No. PAUL You don't want to go shopping for shoes? I mean, [scared] you're going to leave me to hit all these fancy ladies' shoe shops? DONNA I have some ideas of my own to follow up on, and the shoe isn't going anywhere. Tell you what, if you don't get a hit on the shoe in 24 hours, I'll take it. PAUL But - but how do I even ask? DONNA Here. SOUND INTERCOM BEEP DONNA Goldy, could you come in here? SOUND DOOR GOLDY Yeah? DONNA Take this to Rose & Snow's and ask for the style number. Then ask them if they have any record of someone buying this shoe in this size in the last two weeks. GOLDY I don't do legwork. I ain't as young as I used to be. DONNA Buy yourself a pair of shoes - on the office - while you're there. GOLDY Gimme that! SOUND SNATCH, DOOR SLAMS PAUL [brightening] So I could just send her round to every store? DONNA Not at a pair of shoes per trip. We'd run through our entire commission. PAUL What? DONNA I said they weren't cheap. One pair we can add in as a legitimate expense - past that... [shrug] Once you get the style nunmber, you can phone the rest. Well, I'm heading out. SOUND JUMPS DOWN OFF DESK DONNA Need anything? PAUL [a bit lost, watching her] Um, no... DONNA Chow! Scene 13. MUSIC FOR VOICEOVER PAUL Wo. [deep breath] I thought over the content of our discussion and realized there was something she was keeping back - that secret smile, the strange questions - but while we were talking I couldn't take my eyes off her, sitting on my desk like that, one silk-seamed leg crossed over the other. [growl] She doesn't even seem to notice the effect she has on me, and I'm not sure whether that makes it worse or better - if I tell her, she might just stop, and then I won't even get this much of a-- MUSIC CHANGES AGAIN DONNA What is this, a beer garden? They sent me the wrong box, I'm sure of it. PAUL It's not so bad - for a polka. DONNA Hmph. You done yet? PAUL Uh, yeah - I'll talk to a few folks while I'm waiting for Goldy to get back. DONNA [beat] There are things men just don't see, and which it's probably better they don't. A picture was painting itself in my head, and while it wasn't a particularly tricky answer to the problem of find the girl, it also wasn't likely to have the happiest of endings. Why? I added up a size 11 shoe, a lady who could spell jai alai and a prince who didn't stare at my backside as I left the room, and I got a very queer answer indeed. MUSIC STARTS TO FADE DONNA And it was an answer I wasn't sure my wonderful he-man partner would be at all happy about, which is why I went alone to a boarding house we used to rather snottily call Gamma Alpha Ypsilon, back in my own sorority days. SOUND FEET ON PORCH, KNOCK ON DOOR Scene 14. ESPADRILLE Yes? DONNA Hi, I'm a P.I. and I'm-- SOUND DOOR SLAM DONNA [sigh] SOUND KNOCK ON DOOR DONNA I'm not going away. You can talk to me, or you can talk to my partner, and he ain't gonna understand. SOUND DOOR FLUNG OPEN BARBARA What do you want? DONNA I'm looking for someone, and I think she might be known here. BARBARA For this you come around annoying my girls? Scaring poor Espadrille half to death? DONNA I have no interest in making trouble for anybody. Please. I just have some questions and would rather not shout them to the entire world. Can we talk? BARBARA [deciding] You tell me what you need, I decide if I'll ask anyone else. Come on - my parlor's over here. MUSIC FOR VOICEOVER Scene 15. DONNA So I outlined the problem, and Miss Barbara was very upset by the whole situation - she said she was sure Cindy wasn't one of her ...boarders, but that she would ask around. She didn't give me much hope, though. Scene 16. MUSIC OUT BARBARA Tell the poor boy it will never work. Two worlds, all that. He would have to be willing and able to take her as she is - warts and all, as they say - and the chances of that are - pfft! DONNA You might be surprised. BARBARA Honey, I ain't been surprised in years. VOICEOVER MUSIC CUTS IN Scene 17. PAUL Were you using the old music again? DONNA I ...forgot. Sorry. But the new stuff is pretty cringe-worthy. PAUL Keep trying, sweetheart. You'll find something. DONNA I hope so. Did you need the voiceover? PAUL Only if you're finished. DONNA [sigh] Yeah, I guess so. I need to think. PAUL So I checked with the photographers from last night's big bash - and found that the mystery just deepened. This Cindy was a slick sister - seemed to always know where the snappers were and managed to keep her back to them all night. Only once did they catch half a profile, head and shoulders with just a glimpse of the side of her face - I told him to blow it up and send it over, along with a dozen of the dress, figuring maybe Donna could play name that dressmaker. Then I decided to catch up with an old friend... MUSIC OUT Scene 18. SOUND BANGING ON A DOOR RUMPY [muffled, hung over] Bugger off! SOUND CLINKING OF COINS PAUL One, two, three-- SOUND DOOR IS FLUNG OPEN RUMPY If it ain't me old pal, Bette. Git yourself inside here - that daylight's too damn bright. SOUND SHUFFLING FEET PAUL It's dark out. SOUND A COUPLE OF STEPS RUMPY Then what am I doing asleep? SOUND BONK PAUL Ow! RUMPY [amused] Gotta watch them rafters, you old beanstalk you. PAUL [strained, cause he's bending over] I need you to find out about someone for me. A woman. RUMPY Your sweet partner? She running around with other ...dicks? PAUL What? What do you--? RUMPY Nothing. Just wondering maybe she plying her trade - and I do mean detecting, no offense, [sarcastic] my friend - elsewhere. PAUL Of course she's not. She wouldn't-- RUMPY You're probably right. So who did you want me to check over? SOUND CORK OUT OF JUG PAUL [musing] There wouldn't be time, anyway - though she didn't want to take on the shoe-- RUMPY [gulping, then] Whazzat? PAUL Nothing. Um. Right. A woman who was spotted at the Prince's June Glam ball last night. No one seems to know who she was, and she didn't, apparently, have an invite. RUMPY [way sarcastic] Yeah, one look at me, and you just know I'm up on the society pages. PAUL I don't think this dame's "society." I think she's working an angle on the prince, and I want to know if there's a whisper anywhere. RUMPY What's in it for me? PAUL This, now-- SOUND CLINK OF TWO COINS PAUL And twice that if you can deliver. RUMPY C'mon, Bette, old buddy, old pal - I'm gonna haveta drink around for this, maybe float some people. Play the game. PAUL Keep your receipts. SOUND A COUPLE STEPS, THEN SOUND BONK! PAUL Ow! MUSIC FOR VOICEOVER Scene 19. PAUL I started the wheels in motion, but nothing would turn up for a couple of days - if ever. [beat] Donna? Are you there? [beat, then worried] I figured she just didn't like the case - she certainly didn't seem to take a shine to that prince. He was handsome, in that tall, cold, blonde princely sort of way, and she always says she hates those guys. [beat] Donna? DONNA Busy now. I'll fill in my part later. PAUL Where are you? Maybe I can come by and help? DONNA Nope. Just interviewing the prince's friend. You go ahead and keep the-- Oops, gotta go! PAUL The friend? Dark haired, willowy, handsome, not so tall. Not a good train of thought to catch, since like any other express, it runs non-stop. [up] I'll just go back to the office then, shall I? DONNA [chuckling breaks off] Hmm? Oh, sure. See you in a bit. PAUL [growls] MUSIC OUT Scene 20. SOUND DOOR SLAMS OPEN HARD GOLDY I see someone's in a bright and shiny mood. PAUL No calls. SOUND STOMPING FEET, OFFICE DOOR YANKS OPEN, THEN SLAMS VOICEOVER MUSIC - new tune, not too bad. GOLDY What did she do? DONNA What? GOLDY Oops - I'll get out of-- DONNA Wait, what did who do? [waits a second] Goldy? Chicken. Fine. Music hold. SOUND MUSIC CUTS SUDDENLY SOUND TELEPHONE RINGS GOLDY B&B Investigations, how may-- DONNA [filter] What were you saying? GOLDY Oh. Boss is kind of upset is all. Figured, um... DONNA [filter, warning] What? GOLDY Well, when he starts slamming doors, he's usually annoyed... um... with-- you? DONNA [filter, long breath to get her composure back] I am in the middle of something, but-- Soon as I'm back, we're going to have a-- GOLDY Oops - call coming in. buh-Bye! SOUND PHONE HANGS UP Scene 21. ALEXANDER Were you finished with me? DONNA Not quite, but I don't think we can talk here. I need you to come to my suite at the Andersen Arms. Tonight at 7 p.m. Alone. ALEXANDER Really, miss Bella, I don't think-- DONNA Sweetie, you're not my type. But we need to talk somewhere a bit more private. ALEXANDER [cautious and concerned] Talk? SOUND SCRIBBLING A NOTE ON PAPER DONNA It's regarding the welfare of the prince, and you know how people leap on-- SOUND HANDING PAPER OVER ALEXANDER Hmm? [reads, gasps, the a bit frightened] Yes, of course. I'll-- I'll be there. Scene 22. NEW MUSIC FOR VOICEOVER - KIND OF ROMANCEY DONNA Now to figure out how to tell Paul I wanted to handle a denouement on my own. GOLDY You want I should tell him? DONNA Will you stop jumping in on the voiceovers? We have enough trouble sharing them as it is. GOLDY Fine. I was gonna tell you where the boss is. But since you obviously have everything well in hand-- DONNA Where is he? [beat] Goldy? Hold. Scene 23. MUSIC CUTS OUT SOUND PHONE RINGS DONNA Come on... PAUL [on phone] Hello? DONNA Oh, drat. PAUL [on phone] What? Donna? DONNA Paul, I-- PAUL [on phone] I've found Cindy. DONNA You have? Where? PAUL [on phone] Well, a good solid lead. Should have my hands on her by this evening, but she's a tough cookie to nail down. DONNA Crumbs! PAUL [on phone] What? DONNA If you nailed down a cookie. Nevermind. PAUL [on phone] Why are we talking on the phone? Why don't you just come on into the office? DONNA I - I've got a terrible headache. Think I'll go home and lie down. Be fresh in the morning. Bye! PAUL [on phone] Donna? [normal] Donna? SOUND HANGS UP THE PHONE PAUL Damn. Headache, my eye. SOUND PHONE RINGS, keeps ringing PAUL Goldy? You wanna get this? GOLDY [off] Nah - it's probably her again. PAUL But it's your job to answer the phone... GOLDY [off] I'm on my break. SOUND PHONE PICKED UP PAUL [sighs, then tries to mimic Goldy's voice] B&B Investigations, how can I help you? GOLDY [off] Oy... RUMPY [on phone] You got a cold, Bette? Or just drinking alum? PAUL [normal] Stuff it. What you got, Rumpy? RUMPY [on phone] [chuckles] What you got for me? PAUL I'll meet you tomorrow. RUMPY [on phone] Nuh-uh. [sighs] My expense account musta grown from magic beans - it's just about sky level now. PAUL We didn't-- RUMPY [on phone] Oh, it'll be worth it. Bring your wallet to the Andersen Arms right away. I'm in the lobby. SOUND PHONE HANGS UP Scene 24. MUSIC FOR VOICEOVER - STILL THE LAST MUSIC DONNA WAS USING, ROMANTIC PAUL What the--? This is... Donna's music? [gulps] The Andersen Arms was a classic old building on Mermaid street, and Donna had lived there for-- RUMPY Did you bring the clinkage? PAUL I'm not there yet. This is still the voiceover. RUMPY [chuckles] Nice grooves. You going soft, pal. PAUL It's Donna's new music. RUMPY So she's going soft? Hmmm... PAUL Look, I'll be there in a second! RUMPY No skin off my nose. PAUL [sigh] Fine. I arrived. Done. MUSIC FADES OUT Scene 25. RUMPY Took you long enough. Cross my palm, and I'll tell you all. SOUND COINS CLINK RUMPY That's what I'm talking about. I've got one interesting tidbit-- PAUL Shh. Hide! RUMPY What? PAUL That fellow, who just skulked in. I know him. RUMPY Friend of yours? PAUL A client. RUMPY Hmm. Is this a consultation? PAUL Hold that thought. I'll be back to get my coins' worth. SOUND STORMS IN THROUGH REVOLVING DOOR RUMPY [going off] I'll start you an account. ORIGINAL VOICEOVER MUSIC STARTS PAUL Nope. [beat] Go away. [beat] I'm not saying anything. MUSIC ENDS IN A HUFF Scene 26. SOUND ELEVATOR DOORS OPEN SOUND HEAVY STRIDES, KNOCKING ON A DOOR DONNA [off] Huh? Hello? PAUL Open up. DONNA [dramatic gasp] Paul? SOUND DOOR OPENS, HE PUSHES IN DONNA What? What's wrong with you? PAUL It's highly unprofessional, you know. DONNA Well, I should say so! PAUL To just waltz in here like this-- DONNA Ye-e-es. PAUL And-- What? DONNA Are you apologizing? PAUL What? No. Where is he? I saw him in the lobby-- DONNA [gasp] You came here because-- You thought - [gasp]! PAUL What am I supposed to think? DONNA I solved the case, but you're not going to like the answer. PAUL What makes you think I won't? SOUND WATER RUNS IN THE BATHROOM PAUL [growls] DONNA That's why. Look, I was about to do the big unveil, but-- PAUL [plaintive] Without me? DONNA [softening] You'll understand. Can you keep quiet? PAUL Of course I can. SOUND BLOWDRYER RUNS PAUL [growls] DONNA Hmm? PAUL [sheepish] O-k. SOUND KNOCK ON THE DOOR DONNA That will be the prince. SOUND FEET, DOOR OPENS Scene 27. DONNA Come in, your royal highness. SOUND HESITANT FOOTSTEPS PAUL No entourage? DONNA Ssh. Thank you for coming alone. PRINCE [upset] I haven't much choice. Alexander is nowhere to be found. PAUL Your pal from the office? PRINCE We've been chums since childhood. I feel rather exposed without him along. DONNA It must have been awkward, then, that he couldn't make it to the ball. PRINCE It was the first he ever missed. Too bad, I think he'll like Cindy. DONNA They probably have a lot in common. PAUL [suspicious] They do...? DONNA You better have a seat, sire. This is likely to get a little awkward. PRINCE But have you found my Cindy? DONNA Yes. PAUL [quiet] Yes? PRINCE Where is she? SOUND DOOR OPENS, HEAVY FOOTSTEPS BARBARA Right here. Come on out, honey. SOUND SLOW BARE FOOTSTEPS SOUND CHAIR ALMOST TOPPLES AS PRINCE SPRINGS UP PRINCE Darling! CINDY [vexed] Oh, dear! Why did you bring him here? DONNA Hold on! Sorry I didn't warn you, Cindy. Sit down, your highness. PRINCE But my darling, don't you want--? I thought we-- we clicked. PAUL [musing quietly, gets it] Like they'd known each other for years. [groan, gets it] Oh. DONNA Shh. PRINCE But you're the only woman I've ever loved. CINDY And you're about to despise me. PRINCE That could never happen. CINDY Yes it can. [voice lowers to Alexander, then ruefully] I'm just lucky you're a bit nearsighted, Waldo. PRINCE What? Alexander? BARBARA She prefers Cindy when she's all dolled up. CINDY [Cindy again] I really do. PRINCE But... is it a spell? CINDY No. It's just-- BARBARA Go on, hon. There's no going back now. CINDY I could probably spin you a grand story about being enchanted, or cursed, but none of it is true. Unless you count love as some kind of magic. PRINCE Love? CINDY I never meant it to be more than one night. One chance to dance... with you. But you - you just had to [wistful] go all manly and try and find me! Barbara convinced me it's better to let you know, rather than leave you searching forever. BARBARA Trust me, he'd eventually find some clue to who you are. The higher the hopes, the harder the fall, and all that. CINDY Don't worry, I've already - I mean Alexander has already - applied for a quest permit, and I plan to absent myself from court for a decade or so. PRINCE I say - I'm the prince here. Don't I get any say? CINDY Yes. [deep breath, bracing herself] BARBARA [comforting] I'm right here. DONNA Me too. CINDY Go ahead. PRINCE I-- I suppose I never thought about you that way, Alexander. CINDY [wilting] Of course. PRINCE Until I saw you at the ball. CINDY [startled, perking up a bit] Oh? PRINCE Perhaps there is some magic. To love. CINDY But you don't want me. I mean you want this-- the surface-- when underneath, I'm-- PRINCE My best friend? What's so wrong? I've met far too many beautiful girls I can't stand to be near. You do something to me. CINDY [gasps ecstatically] [their voices fade for a bit] Scene 28. DONNA I wish it could work for them. PAUL Really? It seems an odd match. Really odd. DONNA What's wrong with an odd match? Love's all that matters. Though I do have one concern. Babs? BARBARA [sniffling a bit at the romantic moment] What? Yes? Oh, go on - I'm all verklempt. DONNA I get choked up too. But, what about when they're supposed to--you know-- have kids? BARBARA Oh that's a piece of cake. There's always a baby in a peach pit, or I have this deal with the marsh king. You'd be surprised how often these kinds of things happen. PRINCE [fading back in] But how will it ever work? PAUL [clears throat] May I? DONNA What? Really? PAUL I'm not one to stand in the way of true love. You said Alexander applied for a quest permit - no reason he shouldn't go, disappearing from court, about the same time Prince Charming-- PRINCE Oh, you can call me Waldo. PAUL Thank you, your highness. [back to the point] At the same time that Waldo meets Alexander's distant cousin Cindy, who sneaked into town to surprise him and ran into the prince instead. DONNA Oh, and, if you can, you should do a little bit of almost being seen together, which will take a little quick change action, but we can help with that, right Barbara? BARBARA Quick change is practically my middle name. PAUL Alexander can send a letter now and then, eventually rescue a damsel in distress, and settle down in a kingdom far far away. PRINCE There's only one thing left to do! DONNA Oh? PRINCE I hope you remembered to bring that shoe. It will have to do until we can get rings... BARBARA [choked up] I'll start planning the reception! Scene 29. OLD VOICEOVER MUSIC PAUL So, the prince found his true love. DONNA Love's funny that way. PAUL And all Alexander's-- DONNA --Cindy's-- PAUL --years of devotion paid off. DONNA Waldo better appreciate all he's-- she's done. PAUL There's just not enough pronouns-- DONNA --Particularly since some of your friends are definitely "it"s. PAUL Hah. Hah. DONNA Speaking of those, how was the enchanted beasts reunion? PAUL [down] Fine. Every year there's less of us left - too many with their curses broken, or married with better things to do. DONNA [hopeful] It's in the air. Love, I mean. PAUL [growls, close] Yeah... [backing off] I mean, they make a cute couple... GOLDY [exasperated] Oh, shut up and kiss her already. PAUL & DONNA What? GOLDY You heard me. Think quick - I'm on double overtime just to be in this voiceover. CLOSING
Episode Notes Episode summary Margaret and Casandra talk about the importance of learning mediation skills, what mediation is and what different processes look like. Guest Info The host Margaret Killjoy can be found on twitter @magpiekilljoy or instagram at @margaretkilljoy. This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Links Mediate.com The Little Book of Conflict Transformation (little books series also has books on different types of mediation and restorative Justice) Getting to Yes The Promise of Mediation Transcript Margaret 00:14 Hello, and welcome to Live Like The World is Dying, your podcast for what feels like the end times. I'm your host, Margaret, Kiljoy, and I use 'she' or 'they' pronouns. And today we're going to talk about something that everyone has requested. Just kidding, no one actually bothers request this because they don't know they need it. That's actually not true. People actually haverequested this. We're gonna be talking about conflict mediation, and we're going to be talking about when conflict mediation isn and isn't the way to handle different types of situations. And when we'll be talking to Cassandra about that. And I'm very excited to hear what they have to say. This podcast is a proud member of the Channel Zero network of anarchists podcasts. And here's a jingle from another show in the network. Margaret 01:40 Okay, if you could introduce yourself with your name, your pronouns, and then I guess kind of your background, both professionally and non professionally with what we're gonna be talking about today with conflict mediation. Casandra 01:52 Yeah, my name is Cassandra, I use 'they' or 'she' pronouns. I'm a volunteer mediator at a community mediation center. I trained in mediation...What year is it right now? I don't know, eight years ago? Margaret 02:08 It's 2022, right now, Casandra Johns 02:09 Nine years ago, something like that. And I also worked at my local mediation center, at the beginning of the pandemic, as program coordinator for one of the counties. Margaret 02:25 So what is conflict mediation? This is when when you don't like someone, you just respond passive aggressively to them and or cancel them, right? Casandra 02:36 Yep, and block them on Twitter. Margaret 02:39 That's important. Casandra 02:42 Conflict mediation is where a third party is called in to be present during discussion about a conflict. So, in its most basic form, that could mean asking a friend who isn't like a stakeholder in a conflict to come sit in while you talk with someone who you have issues with. Through the mediation center, like on a, on an organizational level, we deal with all different sorts of conflicts. So community conflicts, like neighbors disputing property lines. We also do family mediation, parent/teen, stuff, things like that, we do a certain amount of mediation through the court system. So people in my area can opt to do mediation instead of going to like small claims court, which is pretty cool. Margaret 03:32 So like if you're mad at your neighbor for hitting your car with their bicycle. I don't know that's not a good example. Instead of suing them, you can, like go hash it out with someone. Casandra 03:49 Yep. Yeah. Margaret 03:50 How do you then maximize your personal profit? Casandra 03:54 Well, that's a good question. I mean, the chance if you go before a judge, there's a chance that they'll say, Nope, you don't get this money. Whereas in mediation, you get to talk to the person and explain to them why you need the money, and they explain to you why they can't pay the money, and then you work out a plan, which usually benefits both people. Margaret 04:14 Well it just doesn't lead very easily to feeling righteous and better than everyone, though. So it seems like a disadvantage. Casandra 04:21 Yeah, I mean, I think if you want to feel righteous, you should probably just sue someone and okay, and not worry about mediation. Yeah. Margaret 04:29 So what were you gonna say before, i said weird sarcastic things? Casandra 04:32 The center where I work, also has this really cool program, where we do restorative justice processes for youth offenders. So, rather than going through the usual punitive process, some juvenile offenders have the option to do restorative justice instead. Margaret 04:52 Give me an example of like, not a "John did this," but I like what that might look like? Casandra 04:59 Yeah, Let me think. I have to be vague. So I'm remembering a case where one teenager punched another teenager, like the, I think they were at the movies or something, this was pre-pandemic, and was charged with assault. And so rather than having to go through a punitive process and have that assault charge on their record, they have the option to do this restorative process instead. So that would look like sitting down with the person who was harmed or with a proxy, we use proxies as well, if the victim doesn't want to be present, and talking about the impact of their actions and then coming up with a plan for making amends, which can be really varied. Like it can be, It can be as simple as like, "I will go to therapy." Or it can be direct remediation, like "I will pay you money or do yard work for you," you know, it, people get really creative. But it's a cool option. Margaret 06:04 Okay. What is the difference between, outside of a legal or court system, what is the difference between conflict mediation and restorative justice? Like, when is one thing appropriate? And when is the other thing appropriate? Casandra 06:20 Yeah, I think of mediation as a part, like an aspect of larger alternative justice processes. So it's like a tool you can use in alternative justice processes. But alternative justice processes are intended for instances where harm has been caused. So it's not just a you and me on equal footing having a conflict or disagreement, actual harm has been done. Does that make sense? Margaret 06:46 Yeah, so like, basically, if I'm trying to...if someone within my same social circle sexually assaulted me, and then I don't want to go and sit down have a like samey samey conversation with them about like, how we all have feelings. Instead, I can....instead restorative justice as the more appropriate thing, then specifically, mediation in that circumstance. Is that what you're saying? Casandra 07:11 Yeah, or probably transformative justice. But yeah. Margaret 07:15 What's the difference? Casandra 07:17 Sure. So. Margaret 07:19 Sorry. Casandra 07:20 No, that's fine. Restorative justice was developed, I think in the 70s, I want to say, and that's what the mediation center where I work...that's what we use in conjunction with the court system. And it's dealing more with individuals. So, this individual has harmed that individual, and we're going to figure out how to make amends as best as possible between the two of them. Transformative justice, I think, was developed in the 90s. And it's a more systemic approach. So it's acknowledging that people often cause harm. Because of trauma, because of a lack of resources, you know, it acknowledges that we're all a part of these larger systems of oppression. And so through this transformative process, it seeks to heal both people. Often communities are brought in as part of that as well. Margaret 08:22 Okay. So like, everyone who's involved with the thing shows up, and has a say in it. Casandra 08:31 Maybe not for all parts. But, you know, the hope is to bring in as many people as possible, because the idea is that, that creates more sustainable change. Margaret 08:42 So how does one...How does one go about doing this, right? Like to focus maybe more on mediation than restorative and transformative justice? We obviously within our communities come up with like ad hoc means quite often, and we just sort of try weird things all the time. And sometimes those things don't work very well, like passive aggressive notes. Or, you know, Casandra 09:11 Wash your dishes! Margaret 09:13 Yeah, totally. Yeah. You know, like, how does one do this? Like, if I'm starting to feel like I'm either having conflict with someone that I'm in community with, or I'm watching a conflict develop within the community that I'm part of? What are some steps to notice that that's happening and work to resolve it? Casandra 09:35 I feel like that shouldn't be a big question, but because we're so conditioned to be conflict avoidant, not just on an interpersonal level, but like, society, you know, we live in a....part of liberal democracy, part of representative democracy is like creating these abstractions when it comes to conflict and creating institutions to deal with it, instead of even acknowledging that the conflict exists. Now I have to remember what your question was. Margaret 10:09 So what the fuck do you do when you're like, really pissed off that your roommate won't do the dishes, and is like, snubbing you at parties and this pretending like you don't exist. But they think that it's happening because you borrowed their guitar without asking. Casandra 10:31 I mean, mediation doesn't have to be a big formal thing, right? Like, you can just ask a mutually trusted friend to be...Well, first of all, you can just talk to them. So, so mediation is just a tool in our toolkit. But there's something about having a third person present, who isn't like a stakeholder in a conflict. And even if they don't say anything, just having a third person present and witnessing is sometimes really helpful. One of my favorite mediators at the center rarely says anything. He just has this presence, he'll sit there with his hands in bold and just like exists, and somehow people are like, Oh, well, shit. Now I have to... Margaret 11:13 Just like quietly judging you? Casandra 11:16 No, just like, holding this like, calm space. He's, yeah. Margaret 11:23 Quietly judging you! Because like, well not in a bad way, right? Because like, yeah, if I'm like, if I feel really, like, justified and you know, like, bah, blah, blah. But then as soon as I realized I'm saying it to a third party, I'm like, "Oh, this might not make sense." Like when I say to a third party? Yeah, yeah, no, okay. Okay. Casandra 11:41 Yeah. And anyone can do that. Right? Anyone who isn't a stakeholder and who's comfortable being around, conflict can be in that role. Obviously, there's more that you can do to like develop those skills. That's why trainings and mediation centers exist. Margaret 12:00 Most of the time, I've tried to do this. It's gone very badly when I've been asked to mediate things, but I think that's usually because the people...because I did everything, right, and the people involved id everything wrong. But, it seems like people got really defensive and kind of entrenched in their positions. And it stayed a really like, "No, I'm right. Fuck, you," "No, I'm right. Fuck you," kind of thing? How do you break that up? Casandra 12:31 Yeah. Have you heard the analogy of like, if you draw a heart on a piece of paper, and place it between two people, and they're like standing on opposite sides of it, and ask them to describe what they see, they're going to describe totally different things, but they're looking at the same image, you know? Margaret 12:50 Oh, because it's like, not symmetrically positioned between them. Casandra 12:53 Yes. Margaret 12:54 Okay. Casandra 12:55 I think that...Well, first of all, I think it's okay for people to just not agree, tight? Part of getting over our conflict avoidance, as a society, I think is acknowledging that, like, we're not going to agree and that's not only okay, but positive. Like we need to have people around us who we disagree with, in order to like, examine our own opinions and things like that. But, the second thing is that conflict isn't bad or scary. Like, I feel like part of people's fear around not agreeing with someone is that the assumption is that if you and I don't agree, then we can't have any sort of relationship or function. Like we're so conflict avoidant, that if we don't agree, we just simply can't function. Margaret 13:46 Oh, yeah, totally. And then we just like ice each other out completely. Casandra 13:49 Yeah, which is really common and unfortunate. And obviously, like, there, I'm gonna disagree with a Nazi, right? Margaret 13:58 Right. Casandra 13:59 We're not just going to agree to disagree, but I'm gonna ice them out. But, that doesn't have to be the case for everything. Margaret 14:06 No, that makes sense. I kind of...I kind of do this thing where I have, like, one set of values that I hold myself to, and one set of values that I hold other people to, you know, so like, I'm trying to come up with a good value to to use this for. I don't want to get...Okay, so like, but if there's if there's something that I believe I shouldn't do, it doesn't necessarily mean...even though kind of in the abstract, I wish no one would do it. Like okay, like lying, right? Like I have a very, very strong sense of never lying to anyone that you're not trying to control or hurt, right? And I, I will, like live or die by this as a person, but I recognize that not everyone I surround myself with holds the same value, and it like rubs me the wrong way. But, I can agree to disagree about it because I recognize that this is a value that is not shared by everyone. Um, and I'm on my own, like, wing nut paladin and kick or whatever. Andk but then yeah, like, there's other values like, you know, "don't be like", I don't know, "don't be fucking, like racist or whatever, like, don't be a fucking Nazi," that or...is that kind of what you're kind of what you're saying, like learning to have different standards for yourself versus other people or I guess that's not just the only way to...how do you how do you personally decide which things you are allowed to disagree about and which things you're not allowed to disagree about? Casandra 15:39 Oh, I don't feel like I'm in total agreement with anyone, like literally anyone. And that's great. Yes. The world would be really fucking boring. If I was. There's this, there's this essay called "In Defense of...." shoot, am I going to forget it while we're recording? No. In Defense of Arguing. Margaret 16:05 Okay. Casandra 16:05 Like an anarchist theory of arguing or something like that. And the author talks about these like larger things, like how social democracy...how the how liberal democracy as a larger structure encourages us to to not be in direct communication, and to avoid conflict. Margaret 16:24 Well, okay, so, how does this I guess my question is like, okay, we know that Nazis are on the far end of one...you know, like, God gave us Nazis, so that we have enemies. You know, there's this, like pure representation of bad right, that most of society used to agree on and it's no longer the case, but like, we have this pure representation of bad over on one end, and then you have like, you know, "John Barrows, my guitar without asking sometimes, and thinks it's okay, that he does." Or someone is has a different interpretation of some political analysis or, you know, like, like, shit that I might feel really directly personally strongly about, but is at the end of the day, not a big deal. You know, so that...Is the answer, "Everyone's just gonna draw those lines in different places?" That's my instinct is that everyone's going to draw the lines of like, well, I can be in community with someone who I don't know, like, sometimes as a like grouchy libertarian on some issues. Or some other people will be like, "Oh, I can be in community with Marxists," or something, right? And then other people will be like, "No, we've seen where Marxism leads to. So fuck them." So people are going to draw these lines in different places. Is it just, is it just alright, that people are going to draw those lines in different places. Casandra 17:53 Yes. And that, thank you. Yeah. So it's alright, that people are going to draw this lines in different places. And that reminds me why I brought up that article, which is what...not only is it okay to draw those lines, but having actual dialogue about where we draw those lines and why, and how they might be different from where other people draw those lines is ultimately productive. Margaret 18:15 That makes sense. Casandra 18:18 Because that's how we, you know, interrogate our own boundaries, right? And our own ideology. Margaret 18:26 It was interesting. I was like, this thing is gonna be very, like nuts and bolts episode Are we like talk about like, really specific practices, but... Casandra 18:32 I mean, we can but... Margaret 18:33 No, we should do it too, but I, what I really like thinking about this stuff around...Yeah, the how we build diverse communities and how we avoid, you know, I would argue that echo chambers are one of the things that destroys communities of resistance more effectively than even sometimes outside pressure. You know, as soon as everyone starts...go ahead. Casandra 18:55 Oh, I was just gonna say that like moral homogeneity is also what leads to these like, fundamentalist movements that were opposing, right. . Margaret 19:04 Yeah. And then yet, like, people were like, well, you know, you can't let 'something something' in because it's a slippery slope. And I'm, I'm on this like, crusade against slippery slope as a useful phrase, because, well, it's a useful phrase, be like, "Hey, that's a slippery slope," should mean like, so be careful when you walk it not like boarded up, none shall enter like, you know, maybe like put handholds along the way to like, help people like navigate complicated ethical terrain. Casandra 19:31 Cautionary signage. Margaret 19:32 Yeah, exactly. Like instead of being like, well, everyone who likes the following philosopher who died 100 years before Nazis came about is a Nazi, even though like, you know, both Nazis like this guy and some Nazis hated this guy and some non Nazis hated this guy. I'm actually not trying to defend Evola right now at this time. That's not the path I'm trying to go down right now. Maybe Nietzsche is how I'm trying to...But I don't even want to defend Nietzsche... anyway. Casandra 20:04 They can both go to the sun as far as I'm concerned. Margaret 20:08 But like, but you know, where we draw these lines might be different about like, okay, so like, fuck this guy, but is it fuck everyone who is inspired by this guy? And is it fuck everyone who's inspired by people who were inspired by this guy, you know? Because, like how many how many layers removed from something do we still hate it? You know? Casandra 20:33 Yeah. Yeah, totally. Margaret 20:37 So nuts and bolts of conflict resolution? Casandra Johns 20:42 Can I first... Margaret 20:43 Yeah, please do. Casandra 20:44 Before we move into specifics. I think the like overarching stuff is really important because every so often I see these pushes in radical spaces to develop more skills around things like transformative justice, but no one talks about conflict resolution, no one talks about mediation, which is wild to me. Like, the reason I trained as a mediator is because I saw it is like one of the building blocks of these larger structures. But it's just not something that seems to be valued or discussed on the left for the most part. And that's baffling to me, considering how much divisiveness we face and how we all seem to agree it's a huge issue. But haven't put in the work to develop the skills to like, deal with it. Margaret 21:35 So what we're doing is we're jumping straight to the like justice framework, which is, you know, far more, it's not inherently punitive, but like, it's more antagonistic and implies far more heavily that there's like harm that's been done. And it's one directional, right like, which is often the case, I'm not trying to claim that this is not the case quite often, but but we're jumping to that rather than a lot of things that could be headed off way before they get really intense through mediation, or even things that are really intense are still a mediation type thing rather than a transformative justice type thing is that right? Casandra 22:12 So yeah, even just as abolitionists, if we're talking about divesting from the current system as a whole, people don't just go to court because they've been abused, you know, they go because they're in conflict with someone and want an authority figure to decide who's right and who's wrong. And so that's something we have to replace as well. Margaret 22:36 Yeah, I know that makes sense. Casandra 22:36 And ideally without the authority figure. But even like, it doesn't have to be some intense formal, heavy thing. You know, like I've mediated for friends, and it's just been like a very casual conversation. I think that normalizing it, talking about it at all would be great as the left, but then normalizing these practices, Margaret 23:02 Just normalizing going to your roommate, your housemate, the third person and being like, "Hey, like, we keep arguing about the fact that I want to leave my socks in the living room." Casandra 23:16 Will you just be present while we chat through this? Margaret 23:18 Yeah, Casandra 23:19 Like yeah why not? You know. Margaret 23:22 Okay. I'm coming up with silly examples, but I'm like, mostly because I'm just not feeling very imaginative off the top my head, but Casandra 23:28 I've had housemates, I know how it goes. Margaret 23:31 It starts feeling really personal at a certain point. Casandra 23:33 It does! Margaret 23:35 Yeah, and sometimes it's really easy to be really, really angry at this, like, heavier stuff than the larger framework of what's happening. Casandra 23:46 Yeah, totally. I have a child, I understand that. I'm taking your lack of folding your laundry personally at a certain point. Margaret 24:01 That's because you're the authority. No, I don't want to get into that that's a different conversation. Casandra 24:07 Abolish bedtimes? Margaret 24:12 Yeah, okay. So like, well, actually, I mean, I mean, this would be an appropriate, like mediation would be an appropriate thing to do with, like, between you and between a parent and a child at various points also, or is that? Casandra 24:26 Yeah, yeah, one of my favorite types of mediation that I do through the center's parent/teen. There are different types of mediation. And the type I was trained in was..is somewhere between what's called facilitative and transformative mediation. So, in some scenarios, we're just hashing through a specific problem. And the people aren't going to have a relationship after that. And then in other scenarios, we're actually trying to shift the relationship to make it healthier, which I prefer. And Margaret 24:58 Yeah. Casandra 24:59 The Family mediations tend to go in that direction. But there's a power dynamic, right. And so part of the mediators job is to level out power imbalances, which can be really tricky. But also really cool to watch. Margaret 25:17 Well that's cool, because I think that critiques of power are necessary, but there's always going to be different types of relationships between people with power imbalances, right? Even when, like two adults are dating, you know, there's going to be power imbalances based on like, different levels of societal privilege, or, you know, heterosexual relationships have a massive power imbalance to start with that they have to deal with...either overcome or like learn to address. So it makes sense to, like... Casandra 25:46 I think personal history and like communication style cnn create that Margaret 25:52 In terms of like, if someone has a more aggressive communication style, and another person has like a style that is triggered badly by that style of communication, is that kind of what you're getting at? Casandra 26:03 Yeah, things like that. Margaret 26:05 Okay. I remember thinking about how this has to, like, sort of be taught and developed, I remember being at a workshop once at a conference about this issue....Pardon me, as I pull a tick off of my head and cut it with a knife Margaret 26:23 But ticks aside, you know, the way the way that this needs to be taught was really laid clear to me, I was at this, this workshop, and we're going through and, you know, the person teaching the workshop was teaching about conflict resolution and things and, and a friend of mine, who was a, I believe, a kindergarten teacher, I'm not entirely certain worked with very young kids. And my friend was explaining it was like, "oh, when two kids get in a conflict, like they both want a toy, you know, it's recess, and only one of them gets the toy. And they, they both want it, they get really excited, and they run up and they're like, "Teacher, Teacher, we have a conflict, we have to resolve it."" You know, and it was this really amazing heartwarming story. And, unfortunately, most of the people at the workshop, because they didn't have enough context for what was being told in the story were like, Ah, yes, this is the wisdom of children. You know, we should all just learn from children. And then my friend came up to me later, and was like, that was really frustrating. The kids do that, because we taught them how to, Margaret 26:23 Oh God! Casandra 26:29 Yeah, yeah. Margaret 26:33 And it... And there was a certain amount of like wisdom of children, and that they hadn't specifically developed other bad habits, like, you know, I have a lot of bad conflict habits that I don't love about myself that are ingrained to me for various purposes. But, it seems like we still have to, like...go ahead. Casandra 27:47 Even that approach, that they were excited to talk about it...like they knew where to turn. They knew where their resources were, and they were excited to resolve it. Like imagine feeling that way about disagreeing with someone. One of my teachers says that every mediation is a success, meaning that regardless of whether or not people come to an agreement, the fact that they've shown up to talk about it shifts something in their relationship. And that is in and of itself a success. Margaret 28:16 That makes a lot of sense. And then also might lead to kind of my next question, which is like, when? Well, as I had a phrased was like "when conflict resolution fails," you know, but it seems like sometimes you would go and be like,"Oh, we've heard each other out. And we fucking hate each other. or we're fucking mad about this thing." Casandra 28:39 We've heard...like feeling hurt, being able to say your piece to someone, and knowing that you're in this contained space where they have heard you. And then still not agreeing with them is still a form of resolution, you know, like, we're not going to agree on this. But, I've had the opportunity to, like, say my part. And that's something. Margaret 29:03 Yeah. No, that makes sense. It's like, asking nicely before you ask meanly, in terms of like, on like, a social change level, right? You know, we're like, "Hey, give us our rights." And they're like, "No, we don't give you your rights." and we're like, "Well, we asked, now, we're not asking anymore." And that. And that's sort of assuming one person is like, right in this mediation whereas theoretically, probably both parties think they're right, but I don't know. Yeah, I feel like sometimes I've been asked to kind of mediate informally, which i don't have nearly the background you do, but I like rambling. And I've kind of ended up leaving with this result with like the, you know, no one's really asking my opinion, necessarily, but I'm like, oh, probably the answer is that they hate each other. That the answer is that like both people feel totally justified and from their own perspective, they are totally justified. And probably this won't be settled and they should stay away from each other.I don't know. Casandra 29:59 Which like, at least they knew that afterward, you know? Margaret 30:02 Yeah. Casandra 30:03 Yeah. I mean, I've had many...or I've been present for.... I've been present for many more mediations than I've actually actively mediated just because of the job I had. Which is awesome, because I get to see the way other people mediate and learn from that. But I've witnessed really shocking mediations where it seems like the people walk in hating each other, and they don't come to an agreement. They're not going to agree. But they... the sense in the room at the end is peace. You know, they're like, "Ah, well, we both know, we're not going to agree and why. And at least we know that." Margaret 30:43 Yeah. Yeah. Casandra 30:45 Which is real. Right. Yeah. Margaret 30:49 No, I like that. Because it's like, it's not trying to... Casandra 30:53 Kumbaya? Casandra 30:53 I've already said this but, yeah, they're not trying to solve everything, you know, like some things just don't get solved. But, but at least everyone knows what's happening. Casandra 31:04 And there's that detachment to, you know, the idea that one person's right and the other is wrong is something that if you're mediating, you can't, that can't be in your brain. It's not your job to decide who's right and who's wrong or to even have an opinion about it. And there's something freeing there, because suddenly, you can see why both people feel they're right, like where the rightness is in, in both stories, which is pretty interesting. Margaret 31:30 Well does that end up leaving the mediator like, hated by both sides often? Because like, this person, this staying neutral when clearly I'm right? Casandra 31:31 No, and maybe this is important to talk about, but like part of, especially in a formal setting, when I open to mediation, some of the things I explain include, like confidentiality and mandatory reporting stuff, but I also explain that my role is to be neutral. I'm not going to take aside, I'm not going to make decisions or offer opinions or advice, like, all I'm there to do is to help them communicate productively. Yeah. Margaret 32:07 And I actually, I would guess, that the average, not...no training mediator of the things that you just said that they might fail at, would be the not offering advice part, right? So it's not like showing up to the council of elders or whatever the people who are going to, like, offer their wisdom down onto you. Instead, it's really just about helping the people involved, develop their own communication as relates to it. So it's not a...you're a no way like a judge or an arbiter. Is that kind of what you're saying? Casandra 32:39 No, there are. So there are different types of mediation. Arbitration is involved in certain types, but not the type I do and not the type that I think is useful in like, community and interpersonal settings. Yeah, and it is hard sometimes to not give advice. Margaret 32:59 Yeah, I know when I'm like, I think people might have failed that. I'm like, No, that's probably what I failed at.When I have attempted to mediate things, because I'm like, " Ah! I now, see, because I have all of the information. Now I will clearly explain because I'm so wise." And then I'm like, "Why isn't this working?" Casandra 33:13 Okay, no, it's it's really hard. And it takes a lot of practice. Honestly, the...when in mediations where I take a more active role, because in some mediations, I don't have to people are...people don't really need much guidance sometimes. But, when they do, I find myself almost like teaching healthy communication skills through example. And there's really not any time for me to think about offering my opinion or something like that. I'm like, so busy trying to help them untangle the communication. Margaret 33:50 Okay. Which seems like, in a similar way that like facilitating consensus in a large group is absolutely not about your own opinions about what should happen. And basically by being a facilitator in a large group you like, kind of like, get your own voice removed from that particular decision. Casandra 34:12 Yeah, I see it as a spectrum of skill sets, the like facilitator, the mediator and then whatever we want to call these transformative or alternative justice. Margaret 34:21 Judge Dredd? No, we have no movie about that. Okay. Okay, so which brings me to this idea like, right, you're like, oh, you know, you're gonna come in assuming neutrality as mediator, not that both sides are equal, but assuming your own neutrality to help foster communication. What about when it is...like, this sounds like it would be really unhealthy if I was forced to do it with an abuser, right? And so I'm under the impression that you would not use this in situations of abuse is that? Casandra 34:59 Mediation? Margaret 35:00 Yeah. Casandra 35:01 Yeah, yeah. And, and maybe before that, it's expected that if a mediator doesn't feel that they can maintain appropriate neutrality, they just don't mediate the case, they pass it to someone else. So that's, you know, people are gonna have strong opinions, and feel triggered by different scenarios. And that's real and fine. Margaret 35:27 Oh, I meant I meant as a participant, I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't want to be called...am I wrong in thinking that it would, that I wouldn't want to be called into mediation with my abuser, you know? Casandra 35:42 Well, I mean, the easy answer is no. But both restorative and transformative justice, have mediation type processes, that can be a part of these larger processes. Margaret 35:59 Okay. Casandra 36:00 So, and maybe we don't call it mediation, maybe we call it like, a facilitated dialogue or something? Margaret 36:06 I don't know. Casandra 36:09 I think it's, it's a tool, right? Like mediation is a tool. And you have to do it differently when there's a vast power imbalance like that, or when harm has been caused. But.. Margaret 36:25 So I guess...how do you judge...How do you judge when to use mediation versus transformative justice? Like, how do you decide when a given thing is the right means? Casandra 36:42 That's a really big question. Because ideally I don't, right? So I can tell you at the Center, how it works, which is that if the courts contact us and are like, "We have decided that someone harmed another person, therefore this is going to be restorative process." Like that's how we know. Margaret 37:00 Right. Casandra 37:01 But in this larger project on the Left of developing these these alternative systems, that's something we have to figure out. And I don't think it can happen without intact communities. Because, I don't think it would be an individual process. Margaret 37:21 Yeah, okay. Casandra 37:23 But as a mediator, if I'm in a session...maybe this is a much simpler way to answer it, If I'm in a session, and someone says something about, like, causing physical harm to the other person. That's a like, "Oh, we got to stop this and shift" moment. Margaret 37:39 Okay. That makes sense. That is kind of one of my questions is like, do you ever like, yeah, escalate up the like, response ladder? It's a terrible way of phrasing it. But yeah, Casandra 37:53 There are plenty of cases that get called...so that so the Community Mediation Center, it's all free, right? Like anyone can call in with anything and be like, can you help me with this, which means there are plenty of cases that we can't mediate, that we say, "Oh, that's, that's not an appropriate topic for us. But here's some other resources." Margaret 38:11 And that would be usually cases of like, clear harm having been caused? Casandra 38:15 Yep. Or like certain types of conflicts, just because of the way the legal system is set up. Like, custody disagreements, we don't do it our center, it's just bureaucratic bullshit. But I think it would be similar in a community setting where different mediators are comfortable mediating different types of cases. And if something comes up within a mediation that either signals that harm has happened or that isn't suitable for that particular mediator, you just stop and find someone else to help. Margaret 38:49 Okay. Casandra 38:50 Like, we all have different skill sets, you know, Margaret 38:52 And what you said about it requires an intact communities to be able to, to effectively do this kind of thing, as a, you know, the more transformative justice element of it. It's kind of interesting to me, right? Because then that's something that... it seems to me that intact communities relies on conflict, resolution, and conflict resolution, and mediation and all of the things we've been talking about. So it's sort of a... Casandra 39:19 Chicken, egg? Margaret 39:20 Oh, I was thinking almost of a like, like, building a building, you know, like, a pyramid, a traditional representation of hierarchy. But, in this case, representing bottom up, you know, where like, the strong base of a community is not it's like justice system, but instead it's like, conflict resolution and the ability for diverse opinions to coexist. And there's the general ability for people to coexist, because people implies diverse opinions unless you live in some hellscape. Ideological bubble. Casandra 39:54 Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Margaret 39:57 Now, it's interesting because then this answers the question of how do you supplant the justice system? which is an important question. Casandra 40:05 You support people in developing skill sets like this, which I was thinking about it before this interview and remembering when I was...so I don't get paid to mediate as part of the neutrality, nut the initial 40 hour training, I took cost money, because it's a non profit, very poor mediation center. And you're one of the people who who you gave me like 50 bucks or something. Margaret 40:32 No. Casandra 40:32 And you said, you messaged me, you said something to the effect of like, "Oh, I'm giving you money. This is like a skill that I think we need in more radical spaces." And I was like, "Fuck, yeah, this Margaret person seems really cool." Margaret 40:44 Cool. Yeah, I don't remember that. But, I believe you. I don't remember a lot of things, dear, listener. That's one of my skill sets is that I don't remember things. Casandra 40:59 That can be a blessing, I suppose. Margaret 41:02 Sometimes, it's like I, you know, it helps me really live in the present, you know, because it's all just fog in front of me and behind me. I have impressions, impressions of what's ahead and impressions of what came before. No, that's great. I mean, how common are these types of organizations? Like, you have one in your town? Is it? Do I have one in my...well, I don't have one in my town. There's 500 people who live in my town. Casandra 41:28 I'm only really familiar with my state. So, I'm in Oregon. And we have a network of Community Dialogue Resource Centers [CDRC]. I'm so bad at acronyms. There's a whole network all over Oregon. And each center works, to some extent with the current justice system, depending on where they are in the resources, but they also offer free community mediation, and it's really easy in my state to get training. Like at my center, you can, if you speak Spanish, and are willing to volunteer, as a bilingual mediator, you can get training for free, like it's a pretty accessible thing, but I'm not sure about other states, like the agreement we have with the Justice System to do these restorative processes for youth offenders is pretty unique, apparently, like it's a it's a test...test run, that's been going on for years. But I don't think that's necessarily common. Margaret 42:31 I mean, it's so basically, a way that some elements of the Justice System are trying to move towards an actual reasonable model away from the incarceration and punitive model is that right? Casandra 42:43 Yep. Yeah. And it's been because people at these Community Dialogue and Resource Centers have pushed really hard for the state to implement these programs here. But it's also...I mean, mediate.com has really good classes, you can just take on mediation. You can get, I have a whole...I'm looking at it, I realized this is not a video recording, but I have a whole bookshelf full of books on mediation, AK has presses put out...you know, there, there are lots of resources on mediation that are accessible. If people want to explore the skill set. Margaret 43:22 Would you be able to provide a few of those links for our show notes? Casandra 43:27 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Margaret 43:29 Thanks. So okay, my last question, I want to I want to take with take you on this journey, where we imagine you know, a society without the state, whether because we win or because we lose, depending on how you know, like, like, Casandra 43:47 How you want to look at it? Margaret 43:48 Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously, like, this is a, it's not gonna be like some wingnut thing for people, for me to suddenly be like, "What if there was an apocalypse?!" right? Y'all are listening to Live Like The World Is Dying. I kind of want to ask you about the role of, and I know a lot of it's implied, but we talked about, but like, the role of conflict resolution in terms of community preparedness, if you have like thoughts around that? [That] didn't really end with a question mark. Casandra 44:18 That's fine. That's hard for me to answer because it feels like a given. Like, community preparedness means that we need functional, intact communities, which means we have to have systems that could look all sorts of different ways, right? But we have... Margaret 44:34 Like passive aggressive notes? Casandra 44:36 That's one way. But we have to have systems for working through conflict or else we do not have functional communities. And maybe different communities choose to do that in different ways. This is just like one particular tool or skill set that's very adaptable. Margaret 44:54 So if the state is abstraction of power, right, away from ourselves, basically the existence of the state, the long standing existence, the state is probably a huge part of what leads us to this conflict avoidance that you talk about, like causes these problems, we're so used to relying on the state to handle our conflicts for us by calling armed people who like putting people in cages. And so basically...do you ever have those moments where like, you've been an anarchist for a long time, and then you still end up with these, like, obvious epiphanies that like, seem really obvious when you say them out loud, but still feel like epiphanies? That's what I'm having right now about this, because I'm like, "Oh, this is everything. This is the foundation," which is also what you just said, I'm saying this back to you. Casandra 45:39 That's why it's so baffling to me that I've searched for years for collectives, groups, any, any individuals, anyone offering these skills in radical spaces, and it's so hard to find. And that's wild to me. It's so wild. And that doesn't, people aren't doing it. Margaret 46:00 Right. Casandra 46:01 But it just doesn't seem to be of high value. Margaret 46:04 I wonder if it's like, because people...because I have seen a lot of groups, and I'm glad there are groups that focus on transformative justice, right, but that's the top of this pyramid of needs...my hierarchy of needs that I've created because I love hierarchy. Casandra 46:19 Such a good anarchist. Margaret 46:21 I know. I wonder if it's kind of similar to how like, it's a lot easier to find like armed anarchist organizations that will teach you how to shoot guns and like harder to find ones that'll teach you how to like immediate conflict resolve, like someone angrily comes into your...you know, I and often I'm...the individuals do this, right? Like, there was a time. I don't know if this person listens to this podcast, but a friend of mine was at some anarchist screening at some info shop and some angry guy comes in and starts yelling this and that about I think trans people. And my friend who's trans was just like, "Hey, man, you want to go outside and have a cigarette with me?" And just like, went outside and talked to the guy. And he calmed down and left, and like, and my friend carries, right. But like, it's so much easier to find information about the nuclear option the the, you know, the escalated version than it is to find resources about the "Hey, man wanna step outside with me and have a conversation." Casandra 47:26 Yeah, those soft skills are really devalued because of the way our society... Margaret 47:32 What?! What if there was like a word to describe type of...We should call it patriarchy? Casandra 47:38 I mean, who did people used to go to? Right? Was it like, grandma? Or like, gr... you know, the people, we devalue? e? Margaret 47:53 Yeah. Margaret 47:55 Well, I, you know, it's hard. I don't know where to go from, okay like, now we understand the entire basis of an anarchist society, without the state, basically means that we have to learn how to stop putting this not on other people, because obviously, we need other people, we need society to help us do this, but stop putting it on this, like, legalized abstraction that's off in the distance. Casandra 47:55 Yeah. Casandra 48:23 So there, I mean, there are interpersonal skills, we all need to develop right around communication? But if we're talking about people actually filling these roles that we need, we have to actually figure out how to support people in developing those skills and like value their skill set. Margaret 48:40 Yeah. So how do we how do we do that? Casandra 48:44 Well, you did it for me, I was like, Hey, Internet, I need money for this training. And you were like, "Here's 50 bucks. This is important." I was like, "Thanks!" Margaret 48:58 Best part is that was probably a couple of years ago when I had substantially less ...and like I've, since I think people who listen to this know that I've since like, started a nonprofit job and like, have more money than I used to. Casandra 49:09 Oh, this was like 2016. Margaret 49:11 Yeah, okay. Yeah. Okay. But okay, so like, so people can go and get trainings and people can bring this kind of information to their communities, both by doing it, but also by maybe like spreading the skills that people could be setting up like informal collectives or formal collectives are something to kind of like, work on fostering these types of skills like what else can we do? Casandra 49:38 Just talking about it more. I mean, I remember who was I...Oh, I guess I can't talk about this on the internet. I was doing seasonal labor that grants one a lot of spare time to talk and the people I was doing this.... Margaret 49:53 Blueberry harvest. Casandra 49:55 Yes, blueberry harvest. The people that I was doing the seasonal labor with were like, "Hey, what if we listen to Rosenberg's lectures on non violent communication and practice, because we got time to kill." And we were like, "Alright," so we all... I mean, and there's a lot to say about NVC and its flaws, but we agreed to do this as a group and she sat around and practiced arguing using NVC until we got comfortable like, I, it's hard to, it's hard to, like, write us a prescription for people to normalize something like this, right? But the, the solution is that we have to normalize it somehow.. Margaret 50:35 No, that makes sense. Do you have any any final thoughts on conflict resolution or things that we didn't talk about that we should have talked about? Casandra 50:46 Um, it's really important, we won't function as a society without it whether it's mediation or some some similar skill. I don't know, Google "mediation centers" where you are. Chances are there there's one somewhere in your state, or wherever you're listening from. Margaret 51:08 Yeah, I think we sometimes try to reinvent the wheel all the time, within radical subcultures. I can't speak to other ones besides the anarchists ones, because it's the one I participate in the most. But, we I think sometimes we like only look to existing anarchists projects as like, the realm of what's possible. And that seems nonsensical. Casandra 51:29 Yeah, actually, that reminds me...so that the center where I work is not politically affiliated, right. I'm like the youngest person there. It's mostly a bunch of retired folks of various political leanings, which we don't talk about. And there's something to be said, for working in spaces like that, and learning these skills in spaces like that, because we don't live in an anarchist society right now. Which means that we need to be able to navigate conflict with people who aren't anarchists. And so if two people are in conflict, and they aren't anarchists, and I approach them and say, "Hey, I'm an anarchist mediator," then suddenly I'm not neutral or like a useful resource, right? Margaret 52:16 Right. Casandra 52:17 So it's not that I think we shouldn't have anarchists mediation collectives. I'm just saying that. I don't think people should shy away from these a-political resources, because they really valuable still. Margaret 52:31 There's this thing I learned yesterday while doing research for my other podcast that you can check out, it's called Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff that comes out every Monday and Wednesday. Okay, and um... 52:41 I know what you're going to say, and yes. Margaret 52:43 Yeah, well, okay. So like, I learned about this thing where, you know, I have infinite respect for the Jane Collective, right, the people who in the late 60s, early 70s, in Chicago were in this collective that ended up including more than 100 different people; women working as Abortionists illegally before Roe v. Wade. And for some reason that's on a lot of people's minds right now. But then I discovered looking back that in the 1920s and early 30s in Germany...Cassandra's already heard this...there was all of these non politically affiliated organizations of illegal birth control advocates and Abortionists all over Germany. There's more than 200 of these groups, and they were non politically aligned. But it was almost all syndicalists, anarchist syndicalists coming from a specific union, the acronym of which I forget off the top of my head. FAUD actually, I now remember it. And it's like the Free Workers Union of Germany or something. And even though they did a lot of organizing and propaganda as anarchists in the rest of their lives, the abortion clinics, were not an anarchist project, because that wasn't the point of it. And they weren't there to recruit. And they weren't...they were just there because people needed to have access to birth control and abortions. And I could imagine mediation....you know, if I was forming an anarchist mediation collective, if it was like, "We are the anarchists mediation collective," it would maybe be for the anarchists, but if it was like, "We are anarchists doing this mediation collective and we're willing to tell you, we're anarchists, but it is not about anarchism." I don't know is that? Casandra 54:23 Yeah, totally. I mean, I remember during my first training, going up to one of the directors and asking, I don't remember what question I asked, but it was something about like, "What we're talking about sounds like prison abolition," you know, and like, there's a particular mediation center in my area that is politically affiliated, and I was asking him if I should try volunteering with that center or with one of the non affiliated centers, and he said, "Definitely one of the non affiliated centers because the whole point of this if we're actually abolishing the prison industrial complex is to get everyone to divest from it, which means everyone needs access, which means we don't want to turn them off because we say we're liberals or anarchists or whatever." Margaret 55:17 Yeah. Casandra 55:18 I say liberal because he was probably a liberal, but surely, yeah. Margaret 55:23 Yeah. No, that that makes a lot of sense to me. It's interesting challenges a lot of like, the presuppositions I have about like when it isn't, isn't useful to identify projects politically. But, I think that makes a really strong case. Because, the point has never been, from my point of view to create little weird pure bubbles, cause, as we talked about creating weird pure bubbles is just....they're just going to destroy themselves, much like bubbles, when you blow bubbles, they don't last. Casandra 55:54 Well and even like if you create this weird pure bubble, what if someone..what if you're in conflict with someone outside that bubble? Is that person going to trust a mediator who is strictly inside that bubble? Margaret 56:08 No, then we'll just go break their windows, no matter what happened. Even if our friends are the one at fault. Casandra 56:15 You know, if I get in an argument with my Catholic, Republican, anti-semitic neighbor across the street, even if I might prefer an anarchist mediator, that's not something he's going to agree to, therefore, the mediation won't happen, and therefore it's not productive. Margaret 56:33 Right. Yeah. And, and even then, like, if you have a mediator who specifically there to be on your side, you don't have a mediator, you have an advocate, I guess. Casandra 56:42 Which is important. Advocates are really important. But that's different. Different skill set. Margaret 56:50 Yeah. No, totally. I mean, and then you get into the like, since you can't enter someone into transformative justice, if they don't want to, and if they're not part of a community, you know, sometimes like, I remember there was an instance where to abstract this as far as I possibly can with the story is still making sense, where an anarchist went on a really bad date with a guy who wasn't an anarchist, and then, like 30, people in black bloc, showed up outside his house with megaphones, and scared the everLiving shit out of him. And I think he was a little bit more careful from then on. But... Casandra 57:28 Different techniques for different scenarios, right? Margaret 57:31 Exactly. Exactly. Like, not everything should resort to violence or the threat of violence, but also, not everything...I think that is...I think that's one of the things that turns people off from a lot of mediation is that I think that people see it applied at times when sometimes like,"No, maybe just like direct conflict is the actual answer to certain types of problems," you know, but not that not that many of them. Casandra 57:56 Well in mediation when it's done well, I see the same argument around nonviolent communication, which I think Rosenberg was brilliant, I think that...or is? he like... Margaret 58:07 I don't know. Casandra 58:08 Anyway, I don't know, I think the way it's applied often is horrible. But, I see this a similar argument around mediation and NVC and where those tools can be utilized to like tone police or silence people, etc. But mediation, one of the foundations of mediation is that it's a consensual process. Which means that if someone's in a mediation, and is like, "Oh, this doesn't feel good to me anymore. This is like some boundaries been crossed, or I'm not comfortable with the way I'm being asked to communicate," or whatever. They just stop the process. That's it. Margaret 58:50 Yeah, no, that makes sense. Yeah, I wish I could have done that with like...I have such negative connotations for NVC, because I feel like the times it just gets use...it's, it's just been like weaponized against me by people who are like, making me cry and then asking why I'm communicating so meanly while I'm crying because of the things that they're saying to me or whatever, you know? Casandra 59:10 Same, same. When I when I actually read Rosenberg, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's not what he was describing. Margaret 59:20 Yeah. Casandra 59:23 Yes, yeah. Margaret 59:24 And the spirit of the law, the spirit of the idea often gets stripped away and left with the letter of it. Casandra 59:31 I've also had so many jobs where I've had so many bosses who were like, hippies using NVC to just like gaslight the shit out of you, you know? Like, "Yeah, I hear you feel this way. But I'm still your boss and will fire you." You know? Margaret 59:52 Yeah. All right. Well, I think we've covered every single thing about mediation and... Casandra 1:00:01 Ever. Yep. And even can go and mediate now I'm sure. Margaret 1:00:04 Yeah, totally. Just make sure to stick your own opinions in. Anyone is free to leave at any point all they...they will just be excised from the community. And, passive aggression is the logical response to everything. What else, did we cover everything? Casandra 1:00:20 Gossip with your friends about everything you hear in a mediation so they can cancel each other. Margaret 1:00:24 Oh, yep, definitely. And it's really good to not only block people on social media, but then yell at everyone else to block the person on social media. Getting anything? I sarcastically make fun of things that people do in order to defend themselves from really bad things that happen. I understand why people do these things sometimes. It just gets out of hand. Casandra 1:00:49 Different different tools for different scenarios. Margaret 1:00:51 Yeah, totally. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Is there anything you want to shout out or plug or draw people's attention towards here at the end of the episode? Casandra 1:01:05 Um, maybe this...I don't know publishing project called Strangers In A Tangled Wilderness. Margaret 1:01:12 Oh, are you part of a publishing project? Casandra 1:01:13 Have you heard of that? Margaret 1:01:15 Is it Strangers In A Tangled Wilderness at Tangledwilderness.org? The publishing collective that you and I are both part of? Casandra 1:01:24 Yeah, yeah, we could call that out. Margaret 1:01:27 Yeah, if...this podcast is published by Strangers In A Tangled Wilderness, and we also publish a monthly zine. We're publishing a bunch of books this year. And we're really just...it's a project that's been around in one incarnation or another for about 20 years. But we're like really, kind of kick starting it. No pun intended with the company this year and trying to give it a good push and we have a bunch of stuff coming out. Casandra 1:01:54 If you like podcasts, now, there's an audio version of each zine each month. Margaret 1:01:58 Oh, yeah. What's it called? Casandra 1:02:01 Oh, shit, isn't it's just called Strangers [In a Tangled Wilderness]? This is our job. Margaret 1:02:10 We're very professional. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Casandra 1:02:18 Thank you. Margaret 1:02:19 Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, you should learn how to mediate or don't learn how to mediate and just walk like a wrecking ball through communities and tell everyone what you think. I guess I've already made enough sarcastic jokes this episode. Mediation is really cool. And you should look into it. You can also support this podcast. The main way you can do that is by telling people about it. You can tell people about it on the internet, or in person. Those are the only two spaces that exist I think. But either way you'd be helping us out. You can also support us directly by supporting us on Patreon. Our Patreon is patreon.com/strangersInatangledwilderness, and depending we put up content every month, we have now two podcasts, this one and the podcast Strangers In A Tangled Wilderness. We publish a lot of fiction, we will be publishing some poetry's, and role playing game content, also some essays, memoir, history, you name it. And in particular, I'd like to thank Mikki, Nicole, David, Dana, Chelsey, Staro, Jennifer, Elena, Natalie, Kirk, Micaiah, Nora, Sam, Chris, and Hoss the dog. You all are amazing and make all this possible. Strangers...well, this podcast used to be just me. But now it's going to be coming out more regularly, thanks to all the hard work of all the people who work behind the scenes. So thank you for supporting them and thank you people who are behind the scenes for doing that also Anyway, I hope you're doing as well as you can with everything that's happening and I will be back soo Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co
"BFM STORY" du lundi au jeudi de 17h à 19h avec Olivier Truchot & Alain Marshall. Deux heures pour faire un tour complet de l'actualité en présence d'invités pour expliquer et débattre sur les grands sujets qui ont marqué la journée.
Le Saint-Esprit veut nous faire prendre conscience de la puissance du pardon. Avons-nous vraiment réalisé la grandeur de l'œuvre du Seigneur à sa mort sur la croix? The post Le Saint-Esprit veut développer en nous une marche dans le pardon first appeared on Daniel Poulin.
A very good morning to you! It is Thursday morning, the 19th of May 2022, And this is your friend, Angus Buchan, with a thought for today.“For Your name's sake, O Lord,Pardon my iniquity, for it is great.”Psalm 25:11And then we go to Romans 5:20:“But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more”You know, one of the hardest things for a sinner to do is to forgive himself when all we need to do is to go to the Lord and say: “Sorry Lord” because He says, “My grace is sufficient for you.” I looked in the Oxford Dictionary, to find out the literal meaning of the word grace, this is what it says: "The free and unearned favour of God" or "undeserved loving-kindness." Another one is unmerited favour.You see, we have to accept God's forgiveness and it is one of the hardest things for people to do. “Lord, You cannot forgive me. I am such a great sinner.” John Newton who wrote Amazing Grace... Remember the slave ship captain? When he realized the enormity of his sin, he was overwhelmed and he wrote that beautiful hymn - "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound in a sinner's ear.” Apparently, when he was dying, he was whispering something, a man put his ear right to John Newton's mouth and John Newton was quoted as saying, “What a great sinner I am but what a great Saviour Jesus is.”We have to accept that the Lord has paid, in full, for our sin. Peter said to the Lord when He wanted to wash His feet: “You will never wash my feet” (John 13:8) and Jesus says, “I will have no part of you if you will not accept it.” I was also brought up in 'the old school' if you can't pay for it, then you don't take it. But we need to understand something - sometimes when we won't take it as a gift, we offend somebody.A young man told my son a few months ago that he wanted to give me his horse... Not just a horse but his best horse, as a gift. This horse is worth a lot of money and it is fully trained - You can shoot off its back, you can crack a whip, you can do anything on that horse... but he wants to give it to me as a gift. And another young man wants to make me a handmade, custom-made saddle. Initially, I said, “I can't take it from these boys. It is also part of their livelihood.” My son said to me, “Dad, if you don't take it, you will hurt them.” And so reluctantly and graciously I have accepted this gift which has touched me a lot. Now, Jesus paid a tremendous price for you. All you have to do is to say, “Lord, thank you for dying for me on a cross.”Jesus bless you and have a wonderful day,Goodbye.
Pardon the hot mess! On Wednesdays we would like to put out videos of all the lesson series that we have written. While I work on them, we are going to replay our series, Heroes of Faith - New Testament, which we did at the beginning of Covid. I apologize for the quality. I had no clue what I was doing when we started this online content! So if you have been watching our current content, get ready for some laughs at how horrible I was at this process! Ignore all the craziness and references of all things Covid related. We will follow up this series with Heroes of Faith - Old Testament. Hope you still enjoy the actual lessons! Both Heroes of Faith, Old and New Testament, are available on Amazon. They have songs, crafts, visual aid suggestions, snack suggestions and review questions for every lesson if you would like to check them out!
Use promo code PARDON at Manscaped.com and save 20% and get FREE SHIPPING. Sign up at Patreon.com/IronOnWrestling and get 100's of episodes, EARLY & EXTENDED, plus bonus audio and video, interactive zoom chats and more starting at just $3! This week, former WWF Superstar and the first African American Intercontinental Champion Ahmed Johnson chats with Gregory Iron. If you have an opinion on Ahmed based on old shoots or the internet wrestling community, this interview may make you an Ahmed fan! In this rare interview, Ahmed reminisces about Owen Hart ribs, his Wrestlemania 13 alliance with The Legion of Doom to battle The Nation of Domination and just how much of that match was scripted, his appearances in WWF video games Warzone & In Your House and what royalties looked like, getting unexpectedly kissed by Goldust and the individual that suffered after because it, and his historic Intercontinental Championship win at King of the Ring 1996 and what it meant to him. The Pearl River Powerhouse also discusses his unique look and just who came up with wearing all of those knee pads on his body, defeating Hunter Hearst Helmsley for the Kuwait Cup and the strange treatment he got while in the country, joining The Nation, how close he was to winning the WWF Championship, his run as Big T in WCW, his thoughts on Undertaker, Yokozuna, D'lo Brown, Rocky Maivia, Ultimate Warrior, Sunny, and so much more. Greg & Aaron Bauer relive the old Fun With Ahmed videos from YouTube, and Google Voice translates a call to the Iron-On Voicemail line from Hardcore Hawley. --- Gregory Iron wrestles with cerebral palsy, a neurological disorder that affects the mobility of his right arm, hand and fingers. Trained by WWE NXT Superstar Johnny Gargano in 2006, Iron has conquered his disability and gone on to work with some of the top names in wrestling including "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, CM Punk, The Dudley Boyz, Tommaso Ciampa and many others. Co-host Aaron Bauer has worked in the professional wrestling industry for over two decades. A jack-of-all-trades, Aaron has worked in the industry as a local promoter for ECW events, a manager, and has provided color commentary over matches for some of the biggest stars in WWE, WCW, ECW, AEW, Impact & ROH. Follow "Iron-On Wrestling with Gregory Iron" on all social media platforms: facebook.com/irononwrestling twitter.com/irononwrestling Instagram.com/irononwrestling Back us on Patreon, where you can get complete bonus episodes and additional audio and video content for just $3 a month: Patreon.com/IronOnWrestling Follow Gregory Iron: Facebook.com/TheHandicappedHero Twitter.com/GregoryIron Instagram.com/gregory_iron Buy CLASSIC AND EXCLUSIVE Gregory Iron tees here: prowrestlingtees.com/GregoryIron To book Gregory Iron for pro wrestling events, speaking engagements, wrestling seminars, school workshops and more contact Greg on his website: Gregory-Iron.com Please check out our sponsors: Kayfabe News: Unreal news about an unreal sport! KayfabeNews.com Of The Dead Designs: Bringing Artwork To Life! OfTheDead.weebly.com SBS Printing: T-shirt one color prints starting at just $5! Done in 3-5 business days! Contact Jesse Massey: email@example.com Mystic Gear: If you get your pro wrestling gear from anyone but Mystic, you're making a mistake! Follow @MysticGear on Instagram or contact Tania Martin on Facebook! Special thanks to "Ajax" Alex Cantrell for creating the "Iron-On Wrestling" theme song. Check out Alex and his comedy film team "Aldous Mustache" on social media: YouTube.com/userAldousMustache
Let me perceive forgiveness as it is. Let us review the meaning of "forgive," for it is apt to be distorted and to be perceived as something that entails an unfair sacrifice of righteous wrath, a gift unjustified and undeserved, and a complete denial of the truth. In such a view, forgiveness must be seen as mere eccentric folly, and this course appear to rest salvation on a whim. This twisted view of what forgiveness means is easily corrected, when you can accept the fact that pardon is not asked for what is true. It must be limited to what is false. It is irrelevant to everything except illusions. Truth is God's creation, and to pardon that is meaningless. All truth belongs to Him, reflects His laws and radiates His Love. Does this need pardon? How can you forgive the sinless and eternally benign? The major difficulty that you find in genuine forgiveness on your part is that you still believe you must forgive the truth, and not illusions. You conceive of pardon as a vain attempt to look past what is there; to overlook the truth, in an unfounded effort to deceive yourself by making an illusion true. This twisted viewpoint but reflects the hold that the idea of sin retains as yet upon your mind, as you regard yourself. Because you think your sins are real, you look on pardon as deception. For it is impossible to think of sin as true and not believe forgiveness is a lie. Thus is forgiveness really but a sin, like all the rest. It says the truth is false, and smiles on the corrupt as if they were as blameless as the grass; as white as snow. It is delusional in what it thinks it can accomplish. It would see as right the plainly wrong; the loathsome as the good. Pardon is no escape in such a view. It merely is a further sign that sin is unforgivable, at best to be concealed, denied or called another name, for pardon is a treachery to truth. Guilt cannot be forgiven. If you sin, your guilt is everlasting. Those who are forgiven from the view their sins are real are pitifully mocked and twice condemned; first, by themselves for what they think they did, and once again by those who pardon them. It is sin's unreality that makes forgiveness natural and wholly sane, a deep relief to those who offer it; a quiet blessing where it is received. It does not countenance illusions, but collects them lightly, with a little laugh, and gently lays them at the feet of truth. And there they disappear entirely. Forgiveness is the only thing that stands for truth in the illusions of the world. It sees their nothingness, and looks straight through the thousand forms in which they may appear. It looks on lies, but it is not deceived. It does not heed the self-accusing shrieks of sinners mad with guilt. It looks on them with quiet eyes, and merely says to them, "My brother, what you think is not the truth." The strength of pardon is its honesty, which is so uncorrupted that it sees illusions as illusions, not as truth. It is because of this that it becomes the undeceiver in the face of lies; the great restorer of the simple truth. By its ability to overlook what is not there, it opens up the way to truth, which has been blocked by dreams of guilt. Now are you free to follow in the way your true forgiveness opens up to you. For if one brother has received this gift of you, the door is open to yourself. There is a very simple way to find the door to true forgiveness, and perceive it open wide in welcome. When you feel that you are tempted to accuse someone of sin in any form, do not allow your mind to dwell on what you think he did, for that is self-deception. Ask instead, "Would I accuse myself of doing this?" Thus will you see alternatives for choice in terms that render choosing meaningful, and keep your mind as free of guilt and pain as God Himself intended it to be, and as it is in truth. It is but lies that would condemn. In truth is innocence the only thing there is. Forgiveness stands between illusions and the truth; between the world you see and that which lies beyond; between the hell of guilt and Heaven's gate. Across this bridge, as powerful as Love which laid its blessing on it, are all dreams of evil and of hatred and attack brought silently to truth. They are not kept to swell and bluster, and to terrify the foolish dreamer who believes in them. He has been gently wakened from his dream by understanding what he thought he saw was never there. And now he cannot feel that all escape has been denied to him. He does not have to fight to save himself. He does not have to kill the dragons which he thought pursued him. Nor need he erect the heavy walls of stone and iron doors he thought would make him safe. He can remove the ponderous and useless armor made to chain his mind to fear and misery. His step is light, and as he lifts his foot to stride ahead a star is left behind, to point the way to those who follow him. Forgiveness must be practiced, for the world cannot perceive its meaning, nor provide a guide to teach you its beneficence. There is no thought in all the world that leads to any understanding of the laws it follows, nor the Thought that it reflects. It is as alien to the world as is your own reality. And yet it joins your mind with the reality in you. Today we practice true forgiveness, that the time of joining be no more delayed. For we would meet with our reality in freedom and in peace. Our practicing becomes the footsteps lighting up the way for all our brothers, who will follow us to the reality we share with them. That this may be accomplished, let us give a quarter of an hour twice today, and spend it with the Guide Who understands the meaning of forgiveness, and was sent to us to teach it. Let us ask of Him: Let me perceive forgiveness as it is. Then choose one brother as He will direct, and catalogue his "sins," as one by one they cross your mind. Be certain not to dwell on any one of them, but realize that you are using his "offenses" but to save the world from all ideas of sin. Briefly consider all the evil things you thought of him, and each time ask yourself, "Would I condemn myself for doing this?" Let him be freed from all the thoughts you had of sin in him. And now you are prepared for freedom. If you have been practicing thus far in willingness and honesty, you will begin to sense a lifting up, a lightening of weight across your chest, a deep and certain feeling of relief. The time remaining should be given to experiencing the escape from all the heavy chains you sought to lay upon your brother, but were laid upon yourself. Forgiveness should be practiced through the day, for there will still be many times when you forget its meaning and attack yourself. When this occurs, allow your mind to see through this illusion as you tell yourself: Let me perceive forgiveness as it is. Would I accuse myself of doing this? I will not lay this chain upon myself. In everything you do remember this: No one is crucified alone, and yet no one can enter Heaven by himself.- Jesus Christ in A Course in Miracles, Lesson 134
With less than two weeks before sine die, we have yet to see a budget proposal...from anyone! Also, the investigation into the Swadley's scandal deepens and the multicounty grand jury issued policy recommendations but no indictments. Relevant links are below! Let's start with the latest on BBQGate. Two important developments came to light this week: First, The Frontier reported that https://nondoc.com/2022/05/11/pair-of-campaign-websites-now-available-on-state-network/ (Months before seeking bids, a state tourism official spoke of a deal for Swadley's Foggy Bottom Kitchen to ‘make money from day one') Also, the House Special Investigative Committee that is looking into this scandal convened their first hearing and heard testimony from LOFT director Mike Jackson. During that meeting, it was disclosed that 74% of the funds - https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2022/05/13/swadleys-foggy-bottom-kitchen-investigation-okahoma-tourism-recreation-department-taxpayer-costs/9702143002/ ($12.4M of the $16.7M given to Swadleys - was misspent.) Director Jackson said this happened because the Tourism Department lacked the proper checks and balances. Some examples: Travel was reimbursed multiple times. Jackson noted that the mileage reimbursement for one month in 2020 could have paid for someone to drive around the globe four times. one of the 59 subcontractors hired by Swadley's to make park and dining improvements charged a $20,000 fee on $53,000 worth of work. In addition, Swadley's then charged project-specific consulting and management fees, Jackson said. a cheese melter that Swadley's expensed for $11,600. When LOFT looked into it, the office found the same manufacturer charged no more than $5,500 for that item, Jackson said. https://nondoc.com/2022/05/12/oklahoma-county-grand-jury-report/ (The multicounty grand jury filed their report on Thursday )and included within it were a number of findings as well as recommendations. The report says, among other things, that Governor Stitt put improper political pressure on his appointees to the Pardon & Parole board. The grand jury is convened by the District Attorney for the purpose of reviewing evidence and, when justified, issuing indictments. So...why is this grand jury issuing policy recommendations? (And is that even legal?) https://nondoc.com/2022/05/11/pair-of-campaign-websites-now-available-on-state-network/ (Initially blocked, pair of campaign websites ‘now available' on state network) (NonDoc) https://nondoc.com/2022/05/12/the-weird-political-misadventure-of-two-tag-agent-bills/ (The ‘weird political misadventure' of two tag agent bills) (NonDoc)
God offered each one of us forgiveness long before we asked for it, even though we didn't deserve it. That's why in this lesson, Dr. Tony Evans explains how failing to follow that example threatens our future by delaying or derailing our destiny. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/222/29
A candidate for State Superintendent attacks textbook companies over Critical Race Theory. Governor Stitt faces new criticism in his dealings with the Pardon and Parole Board. A more than nine-foot alligator discovered in a northeast Oklahoma lake. You can find the KOSU Daily wherever you get your podcasts, you can also subscribe, rate us and leave a comment. You can keep up to date on all the latest news throughout the day at KOSU.org and make sure to follow us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at KOSU Radio. This is The KOSU Daily, Oklahoma news, every weekday.
Thank you so much for putting up with our new horror investigation adventure. Support the show at: https://twitter.com/tabletopsnpb Support the musician at: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4TZ7ga-9oEnuEoCTt8aFWA Support the network at: https://twitter.com/BuzzcastNet Support Biz, the DM, at: https://twitter.com/bizarroDF
Greetings and salutations! The real is back! Sorta. Welcome back to the pod! We had a little break. Pardon us. This week, Kelvin and Jordan (Sans Desmond. He'll be back next week.)discuss the indictment of rappers Young Thug and Gunna this past week. Little "Doctor Strange" talk since Kelvin hasn't seen it yet, but knew enough. We also chop it up about the 30th anniversary of "White Men Can't Jump" and the remake of it. And more! Follow Us on IG: @thenourishmentpodcast Email: firstname.lastname@example.org Peace & Blessings!
Pardon the hot mess! On Wednesdays we would like to put out videos of all the lesson series that we have written. While I work on them, we are going to replay our series, Heroes of Faith - New Testament, which we did at the beginning of Covid. I apologize for the quality. I had no clue what I was doing when we started this online content! So if you have been watching our current content, get ready for some laughs at how horrible I was at this process! Ignore all the craziness and references of all things Covid related. We will follow up this series with Heroes of Faith - Old Testament. Hope you still enjoy the actual lessons! Both Heroes of Faith, Old and New Testament, are available on Amazon. They have songs, crafts, visual aid suggestions, snack suggestions and review questions for every lesson if you would like to check them out!
In 2007, Paris Hilton was charged with DUI and driving on a suspended license, and subsequently asked Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger for a pardon. That same year, Lindsay Lohan was arrested for the first time, also for driving under the influence. Amelia Wedemeyer and Alyssa Bereznak revisit these two events and talk about how they encapsulated celebrity in the aughts. Hosts: Amelia Wedemeyer and Alyssa Bereznak Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Use promo code PARDON at Manscaped.com and save 20% and get FREE SHIPPING. Get an extra 58 minutes of this episode on our Patreon! Sign up at Patreon.com/IronOnWrestling and get 100's of episodes, EARLY & EXTENDED, plus bonus audio and video, interactive zoom chats and more starting at just $3! Gregory Iron & Aaron Bauer are forced to record via Zoom, as both Iron-On hosts are sick! Did they give each other something from all these weeks of end-of-show smooches, or is only one of them sick and the other just an actual moron? Aaron surprises Greg with some assistance from $29 & up tier members on Patreon.com/IronOnWrestling and the group debates the best and most God-awful pro athletes to try and make the jump into the realm of sports-entertainment. --- Gregory Iron wrestles with cerebral palsy, a neurological disorder that affects the mobility of his right arm, hand and fingers. Trained by WWE NXT Superstar Johnny Gargano in 2006, Iron has conquered his disability and gone on to work with some of the top names in wrestling including "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, CM Punk, The Dudley Boyz, Tommaso Ciampa and many others. Co-host Aaron Bauer has worked in the professional wrestling industry for over two decades. A jack-of-all-trades, Aaron has worked in the industry as a local promoter for ECW events, a manager, and has provided color commentary over matches for some of the biggest stars in WWE, WCW, ECW, AEW, Impact & ROH. Follow "Iron-On Wrestling with Gregory Iron" on all social media platforms: facebook.com/irononwrestling twitter.com/irononwrestling Instagram.com/irononwrestling Back us on Patreon, where you can get complete bonus episodes and additional audio and video content for just $3 a month: Patreon.com/IronOnWrestling Follow Gregory Iron: Facebook.com/TheHandicappedHero Twitter.com/GregoryIron Instagram.com/gregory_iron Buy CLASSIC AND EXCLUSIVE Gregory Iron tees here: prowrestlingtees.com/GregoryIron To book Gregory Iron for pro wrestling events, speaking engagements, wrestling seminars, school workshops and more contact Greg on his website: Gregory-Iron.com Please check out our sponsors: Kayfabe News: Unreal news about an unreal sport! KayfabeNews.com Of The Dead Designs: Bringing Artwork To Life! OfTheDead.weebly.com SBS Printing: T-shirt one color prints starting at just $5! Done in 3-5 business days! Contact Jesse Massey: email@example.com Mystic Gear: If you get your pro wrestling gear from anyone but Mystic, you're making a mistake! Follow @MysticGear on Instagram or contact Tania Martin on Facebook! Special thanks to "Ajax" Alex Cantrell for creating the "Iron-On Wrestling" theme song. Check out Alex and his comedy film team "Aldous Mustache" on social media: YouTube.com/userAldousMustache
Download Episode. Scott is joined by activist and podcast host Misty Winston to discuss the case of Leonard Peltier, an American Indian Movement member who was charged with killing two FBI agents in 1975. Supporters of Peltier argue that he was charged without sufficient proof and has thus been illegally held in a maximum-security prison for almost 47 years. Winston gives some background on Peltier's case, the political and historical context that he was charged under and finally the effort to get him a presidential pardon— or at least a new trial. Winston directs the audience to some resources to learn more and also explains this week's campaign to fill up the White House's comment phone line with calls to pardon Leonard Peltier. Discussed on the show: www.whoisleonardpeltier.info Leonard: Political Prisoner Podcast Leonard: Political Prisoner Twitter Contact the White House (202-456-1111) Misty Winston is co-host of Facts on the Ground and Action 4 Assange. She also hosts her own show The Misty Winston Show. Follow her on Twitter @SarcasmStardust This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State and Why The Vietnam War?, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; EasyShip; Free Range Feeder; Thc Hemp Spot; Green Mill Supercritical; Bug-A-Salt and Listen and Think Audio. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG.
Scott is joined by activist and podcast host Misty Winston to discuss the case of Leonard Peltier, an American Indian Movement member who was charged with killing two FBI agents in 1975. Supporters of Peltier argue that he was charged without sufficient proof and has thus been illegally held in a maximum-security prison for almost 47 years. Winston gives some background on Peltier's case, the political and historical context that he was charged under and finally the effort to get him a presidential pardon— or at least a new trial. Winston directs the audience to some resources to learn more and also explains this week's campaign to fill up the White House's comment phone line with calls to pardon Leonard Peltier. Discussed on the show: www.whoisleonardpeltier.info Leonard: Political Prisoner Podcast Leonard: Political Prisoner Twitter Contact the White House (202-456-1111) Misty Winston is co-host of Facts on the Ground and Action 4 Assange. She also hosts her own show The Misty Winston Show. Follow her on Twitter @SarcasmStardust This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State and Why The Vietnam War?, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; EasyShip; Free Range Feeder; Thc Hemp Spot; Green Mill Supercritical; Bug-A-Salt and Listen and Think Audio. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
The interview featured in this episode was recorded on May 4th 2022 at Unruly Collective in Bushwick, Brooklyn. After spending the early afternoon busking on the L train @StanfordReidsme & @Durichroll pulled up to the up and coming art collective/gallery & event space Unruly Collective to interview long time artist in residence Anton Vitkovskiy & new residency recipient Daniel Guarnieri known artistically as Three Four. Pardon the audio quality of this episode, and dig in deep, over the next hour we travel through topics touching on metaphysics, psychedelics, art, philosophy & many other fun and meaningful topics.Thanks for hanging out with us for the past 2 years, we really appreciate your support, and if this is your first episode or you've only recently arrived, welcome aboard,Subscribe to our:RSS FEED: https://feeds.buzzsprout.com/1030969.rssFollow The Show, Co-Host & Special Guest On Social Media:NM: https://instagram.com/nomadmelodyReid: https://instagram.com/stanfordreidsme Rospel: https://instagram.com/durichrollAnton: https://instagram.com/antovitkoDaniel: https://instagram.com/3_four5_sixxFollow our Playlist & Affiliated artist on Spotify:Phước PhậtThanh Green Playlist3ARESubscribe to our email list for the early scoop on opportunities.Email List: http://eepurl.com/hBzuZP& support the show using your preferred method below.PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/hoopdanang Venmo: @stanfordreidCashapp: $rospelCoinbase: @rospel -all crypto currenciesSupport the show
"Pardon me, could you not make so much noise? You're scaring away all the flies." For our first week of The Frog Prince Month, we watched the premiere episode of Shelley Duvall's Faerie Tale Theatre from 1982, The Tale of the Frog Prince, starring Robin Williams, Teri Garr, and Eric Idle. This relatively faithful adaptation of the Grimms' fairy tale gets pretty wacky, with an over-the-top performance from the spoiled princess and stand-up comedian version of the frog. We discuss theories on Grizelda the Witch, the magic, floating, golden ball, Robin Williams' frog costume, the antagonistic dynamic between the frog and the princess, the bizarre ending, and much more! Join our community! View all of the benefits of joining our Patreon including the Official Of Slippers and Spindles Book Club, exclusive polls, monthly bookmarks, Zoom hangouts, and more! https://patreon.com/ofslippersandspindles Visit our our new merch story, Facebook group, Instagram, and more! https://linktr.ee/ofslippersandspindles We love to hear from you! You can reach us at firstname.lastname@example.org Music: Through The Woods by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com
Use promo code PARDON at Manscaped.com and save 20% and get FREE SHIPPING. Get an extra 45 minutes of this episode on our Patreon! Sign up at Patreon.com/IronOnWrestling and get 100's of episodes, EARLY & EXTENDED, plus bonus audio and video, interactive zoom chats and more starting at just $3! Gregory Iron brings in former WWE Superstar Bushwhacker Luke to give Aaron Bauer a special birthday message! Greg & Aaron discuss the worst returns in the history of wrestling. For every "beautiful day" return scenario with Triple H there were things like Dustin Rhodes returning to WCW as Seven, British Bulldog coming back in jorts and aligning with the Mean Street Posse, or Albert coming back as an ancient Japanese character of some sort. The guys search the deepest depths of their minds for the very worst attempts at comebacks and rebranding. Greg also talks about his Disney vacation with girlfriend Nicole, and the experience of meeting Johnny Gargano & Candice LeRae's baby Quill for the first time. --- Gregory Iron wrestles with cerebral palsy, a neurological disorder that affects the mobility of his right arm, hand and fingers. Trained by WWE NXT Superstar Johnny Gargano in 2006, Iron has conquered his disability and gone on to work with some of the top names in wrestling including "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, CM Punk, The Dudley Boyz, Tommaso Ciampa and many others. Co-host Aaron Bauer has worked in the professional wrestling industry for over two decades. A jack-of-all-trades, Aaron has worked in the industry as a local promoter for ECW events, a manager, and has provided color commentary over matches for some of the biggest stars in WWE, WCW, ECW, AEW, Impact & ROH. Follow "Iron-On Wrestling with Gregory Iron" on all social media platforms: facebook.com/irononwrestling twitter.com/irononwrestling Instagram.com/irononwrestling Back us on Patreon, where you can get complete bonus episodes and additional audio and video content for just $3 a month: Patreon.com/IronOnWrestling Follow Gregory Iron: Facebook.com/TheHandicappedHero Twitter.com/GregoryIron Instagram.com/gregory_iron Buy CLASSIC AND EXCLUSIVE Gregory Iron tees here: prowrestlingtees.com/GregoryIron To book Gregory Iron for pro wrestling events, speaking engagements, wrestling seminars, school workshops and more contact Greg on his website: Gregory-Iron.com Please check out our sponsors: Kayfabe News: Unreal news about an unreal sport! KayfabeNews.com Of The Dead Designs: Bringing Artwork To Life! OfTheDead.weebly.com SBS Printing: T-shirt one color prints starting at just $5! Done in 3-5 business days! Contact Jesse Massey: email@example.com Mystic Gear: If you get your pro wrestling gear from anyone but Mystic, you're making a mistake! Follow @MysticGear on Instagram or contact Tania Martin on Facebook! Special thanks to "Ajax" Alex Cantrell for creating the "Iron-On Wrestling" theme song. Check out Alex and his comedy film team "Aldous Mustache" on social media: YouTube.com/userAldousMustache
Pardon a few audio bumps in this episode but I think they're finally solved after these recordings. Rob Holsclaw is a brand new bird hunter with one season behind him and he reflects on what he's experienced. Mark Kazmerski joins us in camp every October. We just chat a bit about some of his dogs and what camp means. firstname.lastname@example.org Send any thoughts, feedback, and complaints --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/birdcamp/support
Will Joe Biden Pardon SCOTUS Leaker Thank you to Our Top Patreon Supporters! Andrew and Connie, Christine, Gary, ETW, Chuck, Dee, Pamela, Jacquelyn, Rick, Rich, Nick. Support the show and become a Patreon Supporter! https://www.patreon.com/realbriancraigshow Zen with Jen https://coachjlo.com/ From Shattered to Soaring available on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Soaring-Transformed-Depression-Greatness/dp/B09WYW8DBX/ref=sr_1_1?crid=35K6B170JUF4E&keywords=from+shattered+to+soaring&qid=1649877584&s=books&sprefix=%2Cstripbooks%2C1846&sr=1-1 The Fruit of the Spirt Book Series available on Amazon HERE https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095VQTT9X?binding=kindle_edition&ref_=dbs_s_ks_series_rwt_tkin&qid=1651606590&sr=1-1 All My Links https://linktr.ee/briancraigshow
In a World…where some will do anything to uncover an ancient secret dating back thousands of years, while others will do anything to keep such things secret, one man will be swept into a race against time to ensure that the most important discovery in centuries does not fall into the wrong hands. This episode features the improv comedy games Prologue in a Minute, Pardon, He Said She Said, Newsroom, and Cutting Room. About This Episode In this episode, we pay homage to the thrillers of Dan Brown, specifically his Robert Langdon books: Angels and Demons, The Da Vinci Code, The Lost Symbol, and Inferno. Which is interesting, since Mike never actually read them or saw the movies… Links The DaVinci Code on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Da_Vinci_Code_(film) Dan Brown on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Brown Robert Langdon on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Langdon Time Codes Segment 1 - Discussion the Genre, Tropes, and Outline: 5:24 Start of show: 19:58 Improv Game - Prologue in a Minute: 22:23 Improv Game - Pardon: 24:29 Improv Game - He Said She Said: 32:49 Improv Game - Newsroom: 46:00 Improv Game - Cutting Room: 58:00 End of show, into announcements: 1:11:47 More Information About the Show, Mike, and Avish Subscribe to the podcast: http://AvishAndMike.com/Subscribe/ Our Website: www.AvishAndMike.com Our Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/143183833647812 Avish's site: www.AvishParashar.com Mike's site: www.MikeWorthMusic.com/
K Sera believes that hot breakfasts are superior to cold breakfast. Micah doesn't believe in breakfasts. Phil is angry about the pyramids. Important note: This episode was recorded in the Spring of 2021 during the pandemic lock downs in the Midwest. We were all still trying to get vaccinated (not the boosters, but the main vaccine), so our snarky attitude about having yet another recording session over the phone was present in this episode. As this episode was published almost an entire year later, I would like to add that even today (as the date of publishing) we still do not have vaccines for children younger than five. Show Notes: Strixhaven – Phil believes is Harry Potter meets Magic the Gathering Bill Gates and the meme vaccine Coffee and cigarettes. That's like the breakfast of champions. BBC fad diets Anger from the 90's food pyramid A general estimate for calories burned in one mile is approximately 100 calories per mile K Sera's after thoughts: - I have yet to make these guys avocado toast. Uhh… oops? - My breakfast today was sourdough toast and coffee - Lunch/dinner today was a very unhealthy box of macaroni and cheese - My philosophy is still: all things in moderation - not that I always live by that (see above terrible life choices). I still despise fad diets. - I disagree about the effects of the "juice cleanses" that Micah mentions. I don't think it will actually do what he said it does. Lots of doubt from this side. And I disagree a tiny bit with the logic Micah spouts about fat deposits in the body adapting to your choice and level of activity. It does do that, but, your body is also genetically predisposed to store fat in certain areas. Hormones affect where and how much fat is stored, too. There are a few more factors to consider than simply how long you are sitting still in a given day versus how much you are eating and what muscles you are using. - We may never know what Phil's mom made him for breakfast. Phil's after thoughts: - Pardon me for the audio quality for this episode, it was all done by me! The editor is taking a much needed rest and I can totally understand why. Anyway, I promise I'll get better at this. -I really enjoy eating at breakfast places early in the morning! It's one of my great joys in life; to eat a hot meal while the sun is barely rising and a waiter/waitress fills your cup with piping hot coffee. It makes me smile just thinking about it. -My mom used to make me delicious omelets for breakfast! She also used to make me pancakes with smiley faces on them (from the maple syrup), toast with jam, a breakfast sandwich (English muffin), scrambled eggs, sausages, and more! The morning of my wedding day I went to my parents ridiculously early (logistics with my extended family/friends flying over from the states and from all over the world) and my parents place was much bigger than my small dwelling I shared with the editor. Anyway, it was super early and my mom was already up making breakfast for like 20 people and she made me a pancake with a smile face on it. I told my mom “Mom! I'm a grown-up man!” referring to my pancakes and she laughed saying “you're still a child to me.” So, long story short: Thanks mom.
What Stands In Your Way Of Trusting Him Fully? Judges 6:14-16 14The Lord turned to him and said, “Go in the strength you have and save Israel out of Midian's hand. Am I not sending you?” 15“Pardon me, my lord,” Gideon replied, “but how can I save Israel? My clan is the weakest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my family.” 16The Lord answered, “I will be with you, and you will strike down all the Midianites, leaving none alive.”
My conversations with Cozi and Ezra Vancil did not reveal the mystery of the flounder that is Cozi Anda Flounder. I assume that Ezra is the flounder, but they weren't exactly forthcoming about the meaning of the flounder. Ezra implied that the band has vowed never to speak of the flounder. The duo are the founding members of Cozi Anda Flounder. In this episode, I speak with Cozi and Ezra in two separate conversations, which were originally intended to be two separate episodes. My first conversation is with Cozi Vancil, the young and sultry voice of Cozi Anda Flounder. Ezra has also appeared in episodes 42, 182 and 187 (links below). They had recently released their first EP called The Place, when Cozi and I spoke. Cozi had previously tracked vocals on and cowrote a song called Parables, which was on Ezra's Family Songbook album. Cozi is the second teenager I've interviewed for this podcast, the other being Radio Disney artist Samantha LaPorta (ep 26). I confess that I find teenagers challenging as an interviewer. I enjoy speaking with them and always have, but I've decided there's a slightly different skill set needed to get the good questions in with teenagers. That's what I've decided and I'm going to solicit advice on how to ask better questions of any future teenage guests. Cozi is an interesting and delightful person. I just felt like I could have done better. I don't know. We had fun nonetheless, or I did anyway. In this conversation w/CoziIn this conversation Cozi and I talk about songwriting, her music influences, working with her dad Ezra, learning the ropes of the music business, growing as a vocalist and songwriter, and a wee bit more. This episode marks is Ezra's fourth appearance on the Unstarving Musician. One of those episodes was Ezra interviewing me about my debut single On Top Of The World, which I've not mentioned in a while. Yes, I've written and recorded a couple of tunes. You can find links to my music on your music platform of choice by visiting Robonzo.com. Ezra's a lot of fun to speak with, so our chat ultra casual. In this conversation w/Ezra In this conversation Ezra and I talk about Cozi Anda Flounder, his various other projects, funding his music projects, At Home Records (Ezra's label), separation between artist and label, marketing as an artist, the 90s movement, the evolution of Cozi, live shows, nerves, preparation, falling down, his new studio, the next Cozi Anda Flounder album, and more, more, more. You can hear Cozi Anda Flounder wherever fine music is found and at CoziAndaFlounder.com. Please enjoy my conversations with Cozi and Ezra of Cozi Anda Flounder. Bandzoogle adds built-in Smart Links and Landing Pages for musicians Music website platform Bandzoogle has added a built-in Smart Links feature as well as custom Landing pages to their suite of tools for musicians. The new Smart Links feature allow musicians to easily sell albums and singles directly to their fans commission-free, and link to their music on popular streaming platforms all from a single mobile-friendly page on their own website. Bandzoogle has also added Landing pages for musicians. These Landing pages can be customized to reflect the goal of their marketing campaign, from selling album pre-orders, offering limited edition merchandise, selling tickets, or building their mailing list. Learn more at Bandzoogle.com and Use promo code “robonzo” to get 15% off the first year of any subscription. Support the Unstarving Musician The Unstarving Musician exists solely through the generosity of its listeners, readers, and viewers. Learn how you can offer your support. Mentioned in this Episode CoziAndaFlounder.com Ezra Vancil The Place First Aid Kit Rolling Thunder Revue: A Bob Dylan Story by Martin Scorsese Tom Petty Somewhere You Feel Free Gypsy Tree Related Episodes A Hidden Album Collection Discovery–Ezra Vancil (Ep 42) Keeping Your Side of the Street Clean–Ezra Vancil (Ep 182) On Top Of The World – Ezra Vancil Interviews Robonzo About Debut Single (Ep 187) Terry LaPorta On Being Parent and Manager of Teen Pop Star & Radio Disney Artist Samantha LaPorta (Ep 26) This episode is powered by Podcast Startup, the learning platform for creators with a voice. Podcast Startup covers tech, production, editing, marketing and more. I know what it feels like to be slowed down by challenges revolving around fear, procrastination and tech, yet I've recorded and published over 260 podcast episodes. To learn more about Podcast Startup and to get free podcasting startup tips right to your inbox, go to UnstarvingMusician.com/PodcastStartup. This episode was powered by Music Marketing Method, a program for independent musicians looking to grow their music career. Music Marketing Method was created by my good friend Lynz Crichton. I'm in the program and I'm learning tons! I'm growing my fan base and learning about many ways that I'll be earning money in the new year. It's also helping me grow this podcast. How cool is that? To lean more and find out if Music Marketing Method can help your music career, visit UnstarvingMusician.com/MusicMarketing. Resources The Unstarving Musician's Guide to Getting Paid Gigs, by Robonzo Music Marketing Method – The program that helps musicians find fans, grow an audience and make consistent income Podcast Startup – The podcast learning platform for creative voices Bandzoogle – The all-in-one platform that makes it easy to build a beautiful website for your music More Resources for musicians Pardon the Interruption (Disclosure) Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means I make a small commission, at no extra charge to you, if you purchase using those links. Thanks for your support! Visit UnstarvingMusician.com/Podcasts for related links, episode transcripts and past guests. Sign up for the Unstarving Musician email newsletter at UnstarvingMusician.com Stay in touch! @RobonzoDrummer on Twitter and Instagram @UnstarvingMusician on Facebook and YouTube
Fire is wild, random unexplained fires are ultra wild. Join us as we discuss fire spooks, spontaneous human combustion, and unexplained mysterious blue flames. Where do they come from? Why does it always happen to older people? Tune in and let's get lit! BONUS!- After the outro we have a little bonus for you. Enjoy.https://www.history.com/news/is-spontaneous-human-combustion-realhttps://wizzley.com/haunted-antigonish-ghost/Unexplained Mysteries of the 20th Century by: Janet and Colin Bord , 1989Support the show (https://pod.fan/mystified)
Rev. John Hopkins, pastor of Trinity Lutheran Church in Hicksville, NY joins Rev. Brady Finnern to study and pray Psalm 25. “Remember when…” we will say while with old friends. David realizes his sin and asks the LORD not to remember his sins—which we all hope, but also to remember that He is mercy. This Psalm is a prayer of a faithful person who not only seeks forgiveness, but for the LORD to lead, teach, guard, and give them refuge. Our pleas for forgiveness are not only for us as individuals, but also for others. “Christ be my Leader by night as by day; Safe through the darkness, for He is the way. Gladly I follow, my future His care, Darkness is daylight when Jesus is there" (Lutheran Service Book 861, "Christ Be My Leader").
CRY WOLF (B&B Investigations, Case 1) In a world part 1940s film noir and part Grimms, B&B Investigations are hired to clear the name of one "Mr. Wolf", who was allegedly killed after devouring a grandmother... Written and produced by Julie Hoverson Cast List Paul Bette - Joel Harvey Donna Bella - Julie Hoverson Captain Oftheguard - Reynaud LeBoeuf Mrs. Wolf - Rhys TM Rumplestiltskin - Philemon Vanderbeck Red - Julia Carson Little Boy Blue - Beverly Poole Portia - Chandra Wade Prince - Mr. Synyster Additional Voices - Cole Hornaday Music: Buz Hendricks, Somewhere Off Jazz Street (via Jamendo) 19 Nocturne Main Theme: Kevin McLeod (incompetech.com) Editing and Sound: Julie Hoverson Cover design: Front: Brett Coulstock "What kind of a place is it? Why it's a private detective's office, can't you tell?" ************************************************ CRY WOLF Cast: Olivia (opening credits) Donna Bella - slumming society dame Paul Bett - roughneck P.I. Mrs. Wolf - distraught widow Red - hot tamale and damsel in dis dress Captain Oftheguard - police investigator Boy Blue - patticake ragamuffin Winky, Blinky, Noddy - sewing Crones Rumpy Stiltskin - snitch Portia - Lawyer from across the pond Prince Officer Sees-Real-Far ANNOUNCER 19 Nocturne Boulevard. CABBIE Nocturne Boulevard? Not far. When you hit Howard, hang a right. Howard meets Phillip at a weird kind of angle, then you cross James and Poe. You can't miss Nocturne - it's just past the automat. ANNOUNCER 19 Nocturne Boulevard, your address for suspenseful stories of the speculative, strange, and supernatural. Tonight's story is called Wolf's Clothing SOUND KNOCK ON DOOR. DOOR OPENS. OLIVIA [sultry voice] Yes. This is 19 Nocturne Boulevard, won't you step inside? SOUND FOOTSTEPS OLIVIA Did you have any trouble finding it? What do you mean, what kind of a place is it? Why, it's a private detective's office, can't you tell? MUSIC SULTRY NOIR SAX MRS. WOLF I know he was a beast-- PAUL Hey! MRS. WOLF But he was mine. And now he's dead. DONNA Seems like a cut and dried case, Mrs. Wolf. What exactly do you want us to do? MRS. WOLF They're saying my dear sweet husband Loopy killed this old lady and was taken down by a "good Samaritan" before he could escape. But he would never do anything like that! VOICEOVER MUSIC BEGINS DONNA [voiceover] We'd seen it all before. But that's what you get in P-I work - more of denial than Egypt in flood season, and more grief than happily ever afters. Lives are like mirrors - once they're shattered, they can never be quite put back together. PAUL [voiceover] Mrs. Wolf was a typical criminal's window. Never willing to admit that the dead beloved might have actually been a predator-- DONNA [voiceover] Hey! This is my voiceover. PAUL [voiceover] You said we were going to start splitting them. And you kept top billing. DONNA [voiceover] That's my Paul. Paul Bette. Despite his excruciatingly gruff and intimidating exterior, he always has to be the logical one. PAUL [voiceover] And that's my Donna. Donna Bella. She's a lot more than just a pretty face. VOICEOVER MUSIC STARTS TO FADE OUT DONNA [voiceover] I am right here. PAUL [voiceover] Hmph. Maybe you'll learn something. Is it my turn now? DONNA [voiceover] Nah, let's cut back to the scene. VOICEOVER MUSIC ENDS MRS. WOLF It's like you're not even listening to me! DONNA Sorry. So your husband was killed in the commission of a crime-- PAUL Alleged crime. Alleged commission. MRS. WOLF Loopy would never do that! He's always been a good husband and father-- DONNA Forgive me for asking, Mrs. Wolf, but has he been known to, well, hunt in other pastures? PAUL That was surprisingly tactful. DONNA Thank you. MRS. WOLF You're asking if he ever ran around on me? DONNA You know, a little howl at the moon? A little lamb on the side? MRS. WOLF Well Loopy was no saint-- PAUL It will help us help you. MRS. WOLF [Sobs, then grudgingly] Yes. I always knew he was a bit of a dog, but I loved him. And there were always the cubs to consider. DONNA Let's get down to the teeth of the matter. What exactly do you want us to do? Your husband's killer is no secret - in fact he's all over the papers as a big hero. "Simple woodcutter saves young girl from fate of devoured gramma." Story on page 7. MRS. WOLF It's the insurance. They're refusing to pay out since he died while committing a crime. I wouldn't ask if it was just for me, but our pack - well, we'll hardly be able to hold our muzzles up in public. VOICEOVER MUSIC BEGINS PAUSE DONNA [voiceover] ... OK, you go. PAUL [voiceover] Thank you. The case was the biggest thing to hit the hot sheets since the disappearance of debutante White last year. Nothing sparks the interest like someone getting devoured. DONNA [voiceover] ...And a little heavily implied sex. The facts were pretty cut and dried. Red reached gramma's cottage at 10 p.m., only to find the door unlocked and most of the light bulbs unscrewed. A voice from the bedroom called out for her to come in. VOICEOVER MUSIC CUTS OUT PAUL We should check and see if Mr. Wolf was known for voice impersonations. DONNA Noted. So-- PAUL [cutting her off] So Red went in to deliver gramma's goodies-- DONNA [upping the ante] --and didn't realize at first that the person tucked up in bed was not her dear sweet gran-- PAUL [stealing the punchline, almost breathless] --but a bloodthirsty wolf, dressed in the clothes of the little old lady he had devoured just moments earlier. DONNA [sigh] Why didn't she notice? We need to check on Red's eyesight. Seems fishy to me. Could she have been expecting something? PAUL I've heard some interesting things about Red. Maybe I should tackle her alone. DONNA Me too - [catty] I've heard that if her riding hood was a car, it would come with a rumble seat and a convertible roof. PAUL [wolfish] They do say she likes to run around with the top down. DONNA [sweetly] Well, you go on ahead. I'll stop in on the Captain and see if I can wiggle loose a copy of the official report. PAUL Nothing doing! I know just what kind of wiggling you-- [cut off by music] VOICEOVER MUSIC STARTS DONNA [voiceover, very satisfied] So we paid a little call on Red. Together. PAUL [voiceover] Hey! Let me finish. DONNA [voiceover] Tell me on the way. SOUND CAR DOORS. CAR DRIVES OFF CAR ENGINE UNDER PAUL Bella? DONNA [romantic-ish] Yes, Paul? PAUL [musing] What would you do if you walked into, say, my bedroom... DONNA Oh, Paul? PAUL [not noticing] And crept up to the burly figure tucked up in bed.... DONNA [giggles] Um-hum? PAUL [still oblivious] and when you got close enough to get a good look, you see-- DONNA [sultry] What would I see, Paul? PAUL --A wolf in a nightcap? DONNA What? I mean, you're a bit shaggy around the edges, but-- PAUL Huh? I was thinking of Red. What were ... you...? DONNA [snappish] Teasing. You're right. Even if she had to get close before noticing, there's too much chance she'll spot the switch. That's quite a risk he took. PAUL Why are you so flushed? Are you OK? DONNA Huh? [covering badly] Thrill of the chase. Are we there yet? VOICEOVER MUSIC STARTS DONNA [whispering] I think he's - yep - he's gone. Well, as you might have noticed, my big lug of a partner doesn't seem to know I'm alive - except as a sidekick and a sleuth. I've heard of girls who want to be loved for their minds, but everything from my neck down was getting lonely. So I --- Oops, here he-- [clears throat] When we got to Red's address-- PAUL Did I miss anything? DONNA Nope! --the windows of the bungalow were dark and a FOR SALE sign sat in the yard. PAUL What's ... wrong? DONNA [snap] Nothing. VOICEOVER MUSIC ENDS SOUND OUTDOOR NOISES PAUL No, really. DONNA Well, there is one thing... [beat] Why would she sell her house right after her brush with death? PAUL Bad memories? DONNA But that would be Gramma's house, wouldn't it? PAUL So where's Red? CAPTAIN [off, coming on] She's staying at the Perrault Hilton - makes it easier to avoid the press. DONNA [all sweetness, not fake] Captain Oftheguard, what are you doing here? PAUL [growls] CAPTAIN I could ask you the same thing. What's the deal? This is hardly the most interesting case in town, seeing as we've already got everything handled - one dead killer, one live hero-- PAUL And one red hot media bombshell. Getting any good press lately? DONNA Ssh! We've been asked to look into a couple things. You know how insurance companies are. CAPTAIN [warning] Look, this case is wrapped up tighter than a ballgown in a walnut, and the last thing I need is you two poking your noses into it and messing it up. I don't want to see you anywhere near this case, you hear? I've got a glass mountain just waiting for the first one to get in my way. PAUL Oh yeah? DONNA Shh. Bruce-- CAPTAIN [softening, but stern] Don't Bruce me, Donna. Why a nice girl like you wants to be a private eye is beyond me. Call me when you want to go legit. PAUL [growls] CAPTAIN Take it up with the king, pal. SOUND FOOTSTEPS STOMP AWAY DONNA Why can't you be civil? PAUL I don't like him. He treats you like you should be locked in a tower. DONNA Tsch. He just-- BOY BLUE Pardon me, good miss, good sir, have you seen a mangy cur? PAUL Pfui. Get away. DONNA No need to-- PAUL I hate patticakes. DONNA If not for them, who'd do all the scut work? Cartoon mice? Paul, why don't you run along and see if you can talk to Red? I'll catch a cab late - it's Bee night anyway. PAUL But--? VOICEOVER MUSIC STARTS DONNA I have to explain the patticakes, dear. You'll have plenty of time to get across town. PAUL [muttering, going off] They come in here, take all the jobs... DONNA You may have noticed a certain theme to our world. Well, the patticakes hail from a completely different land. PAUL [off, yelling] They don't even speak good English! DONNA [sigh] They're stuck in the past, and limited in their abilities, but they do just fine at menial labor, so they get hired under the table by people too cheap or too broke to find someone local. Luckily, when I was a kid, my nanny was an old woman who lived in a shoe, so I knew the lingo. VOICEOVER MUSIC ENDS PAUL [yelling, off] And they do stupid things like jump over candle-sticks-- DONNA [yelling back] It's over! PAUL [off, not yelling] Oh. DONNA [sigh] Right. Hmm... [thinking noises] question - no that's a hard one, little boy blue... wait, no... I've got it! [to boy] I've seen no dog, my boy in blue, but I have something to ask you. BOY BLUE Lovely Lady, kind and fair I'll answer anything I dare! DONNA Just a moment. [thinking again, then] I need to know about Miss Red Or about the wolf that's dead BOY BLUE The wolf is dead? Oh lackaday! He had me watch his car for pay. DONNA You mean the wolf came here? What-- oh! [thinking hard, trying to rhyme] BOY BLUE I see the sinking of the sun My mother worries - I must run! SOUND FOOTSTEPS RUN OFF DONNA Damn! But why would Mr. Wolf have come here? If Red knew him-- VOICEOVER MUSIC CUTS HER OFF DONNA What? PAUL I need to muse. Take a break. DONNA Are you spying on me? PAUL [genuinely shocked] No! I wouldn't-- DONNA Good. PAUL [clears throat] I figured this was as good a time as any to tap my underworld contacts, see if there was any connection between red and the wolf-- DONNA Don't you dare! That's my clue! PAUL Now who's spying? DONNA I'll go away, but only if you don't follow my clue. PAUL [growl] Oh, Done. DONNA Fine. PAUL [loudly] Then I decided to tap my underworld contacts to see if the woodcutter had any prior grudge against the wolf-- DONNA [off] That's better! PAUL And I figured after that, I could swing by ...Captain ...Oftheguard's... office-- [quietly] Donna? [waits] Whew. [chuckles, then fondly] She's a real salamander when she gets started. Look, don't tell her this, [listens again for a second] but, I feel like such a - well, a beast - when I see her and Oftheguard together. He's an old friend of the family - when her father the big time importer had a few bad business breaks, he helped them keep the wolf from the door, and I always figured it was to get close to her, since her sisters are no prize. That's how Donna ended up coming to work for me. Times were tough. [putting a brave face on it] Now that her father's back in the shipping fast lane, I figure it's just a matter of time before she gets bored with keeping company with a roughneck like me and goes back to her high society friends. PAUL [breaking a little] I don't know how I'll get by without her, but there's no way a gorgeous dame like her could ever be interested in a big hairy brute like yours truly. And what could I say? Every time I try and come up with something romantic, all I think of is "will you marry me?" which is bound to be slapped down. So I make light and pretend I don't see her lovely eyes and shiny red hair... [sigh that's almost a growl] DONNA I'm back - miss me? PAUL I, no, I-- [going off] have to meet a guy. DONNA I'll never understand him. [beat] What? Oh, fine - [sigh] I got to the bee. [beat] Why isn't the music ending? I've arrived. [beat] Tsk. [exasperated sigh] Grand balls may be the obvious social events of high society, but the sewing bees are the true heart of the old dame's network. We get together to spin and weave and sew ... and dish. [calling off] Good enough? VOICEOVER MUSIC ENDS ABRUPTLY DONNA [sarcastic] Thanks. SOUND KNOCK ON DOOR WINKY [muffled] Come in! SOUND DOOR OPENS, F